text:
Lucid Hydra 200: Vendor Agnostic Multi-GPU, Available in 30 Daysby Anand Lal Shimpi on 9/22/2009 5:00 PM EST
- Posted in
- GPUs
94 Comments
Back to Article
etriky - Saturday, October 31, 2009 - link10/29 has come and gone and still no board.... Reply
maomao0000 - Sunday, October 11, 2009 - linkhttp://www.myyshop.com">http://www.myyshop.com
Quality is our Dignity; Service is our Lift.
Myyshop.com commodity is credit guarantee, you can rest assured of purchase, myyshop will
provide service for you all, welcome to myyshop.com
Air Jordan 7 Retro Size 10 Blk/Red Raptor - $34
100% Authentic Brand New in Box DS Air Jordan 7 Retro Raptor colorway
Never Worn, only been tried on the day I bought them back in 2002
$35Firm; no trades
http://www.myyshop.com/productlist.asp?id=s14">http://www.myyshop.com/productlist.asp?id=s14 (Jordan)
http://www.myyshop.com/productlist.asp?id=s29">http://www.myyshop.com/productlist.asp?id=s29 (Nike shox) Reply
Canadian87 - Tuesday, October 06, 2009 - linkis on lock down.... I'm not spending a dime, waiting for a new christmas build, I'll just survive with my E5300, GTS250, 2gb ddr2 800 for now.
Come chrimuh *inside joke* I'm gonna have enough dough to drop on core i7, 8gb ddr3, a multi gpu board, and any 2 graphics cards around. it's go time, hope this isht works. Reply
YOMO - Thursday, October 01, 2009 - linkit looks to me like there is 2 cables coming out the back of the monitor one for each video card so whats the point of having it with one monitor Reply
MonicaS - Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - linkI hate to knock a great idea, but this is something that should have been invented 3-4 years ago and not now. As far as I know, there's quite literally no reason to SLI anything. Single cards with multiple cores do the job more then well enough and nothing out there is going to require some crazy multiple card set up.
Beyond that, I can't see any use for this. Its a great idea, but no very useful.
Monica S
Computer Repair Los Angeles
shin0bi272 - Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - linkWhat this is supposed to do is bring up the fps from what you get on sli or crossfire. Since there are dual gpu cards running in sli (4 gpus total) to run games like crysis at a better frame rate than they could with a single dual gpu card there is definitely a reason for this chip... IF (and thats a BIG if) it performs as its claimed to or even close to it. Your average SLi or Crossfire bump is 40% or so and thats IF the game supports the solution you have (if not you have up to 600 dollars worth of paperweight in your rig). This is supposed to get you double (or close to it) the fps if you put a second card in rather than 40% more. So yeah there's definitely a need for this technology. Now if we can just get games that have more replay value.... Reply
ValiumMm - Wednesday, September 30, 2009 - linkcrysis, kthnxbye Reply
ValiumMm - Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - linkWhats the point having two x16 lanes with 2 gfx cards when the upstream goes to x16, wouldnt it be exactly the same if u had x8 on two lanes cos the upstream is exactly the same ??? Reply
Sunagwa - Saturday, September 26, 2009 - linkWith this setup are both cards memory going to be utilized?
Honestly the only thing that kept me from going multi-GPU so far is that I'm paying for 1Gig of video memory that isn't going to be used. Reply
shin0bi272 - Sunday, September 27, 2009 - linkIf I'm reading the schematics correctly the threads are sent to the video card as they would be if the hydra wasnt there except the hydra only sends a thread to the card if its ready for one. So it would use the memory as far and I can tell of both cards (which would really be an improvement and probably where they get the scalability claim). Think of the hydra chip as a traffic cop. It sends data down the appropriate channel when that channel is ready for more data and lets the card handle the rendering using all of its tools. Reply
ainarssems - Monday, September 28, 2009 - linkI do not think it will use memory like You want it. Because lot of data needs to be preloaded locally on each card for fast access and high bandwidth. That would require the same set of data on both cards like with Crossfire or SLI. Look at the HD5870 memory bandwidth- 153GB/s or 159 GB/s for GTX 285, PCIe bus with its 16GB/s bandwidth does not come even close to be able to feed that data on demand not even talking about increased latency. I do not think they can predict which data will be needded on each card and even if they could that would mean lot of loading and unloading data on each card as circumstances change and that would require a lot of bandwidth as well.
If You want to use all of video memory efectively that would require one memory card to be able to directly acces data on other cards memory like in multi CPU setups. That would mean change in video cards themselves. And even then I expect it to appear on X2 cards first if ever because that access would still need to be done over PCIe with low bandwidth and increased latency for two physical cards. On the X2 cards tey could introduce another connection between GPU's kind of like QPI which would allow access to other GPU's memory. This later could become part of PCIe connection for multiple card interconnection.
But honestly I think the answer is with the 2 GPU dies in the same package kind of like Q6600 is two E6600 in one package to be able to use all memory efectively.
All of this is just my somewhat educated guess, I am not a GPU engineer so I could be wrong. Reply
shin0bi272 - Thursday, October 01, 2009 - linkthat could be true but we will have to wait and see I guess. Its not like they are releasing this info or anything LOL. On another site I saw them playing ut3 and one of the cards was plugged into one monitor and the other was plugged into a second monitor and each of them was drawing a portion of the screen. Ive not used SLI or crossfire (too expensive for my blood) so Im not sure if you can do that with the current sli/crossfire tech or not. If not then it could be that the cards are working independently and sending the data through the hydra and out the primary card to the display. But you could be right too I have no clue... The biggest tell that it wont work at all like everyone is hoping is that they arent waving their arms in the air saying "look at what we built! It doubles your FPS! Buy it buy it buy it!" you know? Reply
shin0bi272 - Friday, September 25, 2009 - linkCan we Please please please see some proof of the framerate increase? Im happy they are putting out actual silicon but if it doesnt do what its intended to do I dont wanna have to go out and get an entirely new motherboard to replace my asus p6t deluxe v2 one to find out. Youve got a working one with an ati and an Nvidia card in it and bioshock... show us the FPS count with it on and with it off PLEEEEEASE??? Reply
mutarasector - Thursday, September 24, 2009 - linkI'm curious as to just how PAP enabled gfx cards will handle HD audio on hydra equipped systems. Will hydra be transparent to this? Reply
mindless1 - Thursday, September 24, 2009 - link... but geeze, yet another thing to add an additional $75 onto the price of motherboards? It's getting pretty crazy, the gulf in prices between what a high-spec system costs and the box your average gamer uses (which has what, a 3 year old single GPU and an early C2D?).
Personally I think more work on this front needs to be done in the drivers, not dedicating another hunk of silicon and board real-estate to the task, and $75 seems a bit o the high side even then, I suppose we're paying for a large chunk of R&D at the onset. Reply
Hiravaxis - Thursday, September 24, 2009 - linkMy biggest concern is that the technology is somehow dependent on the ability of the monitor to accept dual input.
Now I've heard that SLI/x-fire synchronization can occur over the PCIe bus. Is this a possibility with this technology? If so, does it have any drawbacks I.E. reduced bandwidth?
What about the new QPI bus? If the chip was put on a X58 motherboard? Reply
haplo602 - Thursday, September 24, 2009 - linkThe only credible piece of information is that MSI got involved. I don't think they'd give in to a hoax. So the technology does something.
However I do not think linear scaling is possible, and there are some other limits I can think about.
So basicaly let's wait for the first detailed reviews before jumping to conclusions. Reply
ilinithili - Thursday, September 24, 2009 - linkI'd be very surprised if this does not do near enough what it says on the box. For a start Intel was the main investor in this technology, and as mentioned previously MSI have now got involved too. The fact that Nvidia/AMD have got their own (but inefficient) multi-gpu methods already, there'd be no place for this if it wasn't any better than SLI/Crossfire so I really don't think they'd have bothered. 100% scaling may be a little optimistic, but around ~90% is probably more likely. Also this tech was already demo'd working last year (anyone remember the photo's of the two Unreal III scenes split across 2 monitors?) and this is now an improved version so I do have fairly high hopes that it's going to work. Reply
LevelUser - Thursday, September 24, 2009 - linkWouldn't this add massive input lag ? Reply
Mugur - Thursday, September 24, 2009 - linkThere is so many questions regarding how this thing will work in various situations...
I think we'll see. But the tests should better be thoroughly :-). Reply
ValiumMm - Thursday, September 24, 2009 - linkBut doesnt ATI and Nvidia use different colours? Like two greens arent exactly the same colour, we see it as the same, but its technically two diff colours, how would this work with both? and does it mean if an older card only supports dx9 and a new dx11 card will be only doing dx9 to work with the older card ? Reply
bh192012 - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link72$ will almost buy you a ATI 4850
using your old X850 with a 4850 = no DX10 and no shader 3.0 (no bioshock?) Plus the proportion of extra electricity v.s. extra FPS = meh
Throwing a pair of 5870's for perfect scaling might still be a no go, as I'd think because you're limited to 16x to the cpu, it's still effectively 8x by 8x. Plus on an X58 mobo, you actually get 16x by 16x. I'd hope the "high end model" would actually by 32x to the cpu. Maybe I'm wrong, benchies will be interesting. Reply
hamunaptra - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkI may consider this, when prices come down and if / when it becomes mainstream technology for multi gpu! It sounds amazing so far! the only thing I dont want it stuttering / microstuttering that SLI / Xfire has! Reply
araczynski - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkif this doesn't bring out the AMD/Nvidia lawyers out I don't know what will. Cuz you know, they have to protect the consumer and all that... Reply
scooterlibby - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkStill confused as to why there are two monitors plugged in but only one shown. Does Hydra have some sort of proprietary bridge to connect the two cards? Reply
MrRuckus - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkThats my question. If you use SLI or have ever browsed slizone forums, you'd notice SLI can be used without a bridge, but the downside is that it runs over the PCIe bus and can run slow. On cards like the 8600GT and such, they sometimes recommend or need to run without a bridge and it runs fine, but on quicker cards, like a 9800GTX or 200 series, a bridge is required because its too much to push over the PCIe bus without a large performance hit.
I'll just be curious to see when more information comes out how it actually works. Also using only 2 somewhat older games to demonstrate it is questionable too. It seems like there's going to be A LOT of different variables and MANY different configurations that people could use. I can see this being hit and miss depending on what hardware you use and what they support. Reply
IcePickFreak - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkIt's at least something to be excited about, but of course I think everyone has their doubts. It's been quite a long time since anything big came across the PC scene.
What gives me a good feeling about this is they haven't been hyping the hell out of it - a company of few words and a lot of action maybe?
At any rate, whether this thing flops or not, at least for now it's nice to see something exciting in the immediate future. If it does indeed work as they claim it'll be a major milestone in PC gaming hardware. Reply
werfu - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkIf it scale linearly then it would be NVidia and ATI own multi-GPU solution. This claim is IHMO way too ambitious. ATI and NVidia haven't been able to do so without having to work on the constraint that the Hydra gets. Reply
JonnyDough - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkYou not want to run it in 4x8 mode? I mean, I could take a few of my old cards and put them in ONE PC. I guess we'll finally find a use for these ridiculous PSUs. :) Reply
JonnyDough - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkI love Lucy.
Oops, Lucid. :) Reply
Moopiz - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkSo will this affect X2 cards in any way? Reply
poohbear - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkwow, i remember asking about this chip a few weeks back as it completely fell off the radar after they announced it. If it works as advertised, it'll make SLI/Crossfire obsolete. Reply
InternetGeek - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linki hope it works and that they plan to put it on laptops as well... Reply
james jwb - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkIF this ends up working with almost optimal scaling, it'll be the most exciting thing to happen in gaming (and others) for a long, long time.
I wonder how much CPU horsepower you need to really get something like optimal. Reply
ninjakamster - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkI suppose we can assume that we can never upgrade our current motherboards with this exciting chip.
Right now, it is only slated to be available on this particular MSI P55 board? What about the higher end X58 boards?
It would be a shame to purchase a new board but this technology sounds so exciting.
My brother upgraded from a Radeon X300 to a Geforce 7900GT to his current Radeon HD4850. It would be very nice if he could use his two older cards collecting dust in the closet to gain a few extra precious frames per second.
I wonder how this will compare to CrossFire and SLI? Reply
andrewaggb - Friday, September 25, 2009 - linkHonestly I think everybody needs to settle down and wait. I see all sorts of reasons why this won't work the way everybody hopes.
Memory sizes? DirectX feature sets? Image filtering, hue, etc? I mean if I mixed and ati and nvidia card how would my colors look? If I mixed a 5870 and a 2900 how would my AA or AF look?
What are the overheads? I don't buy linear scaling, sorry people. Half of the work is being done on another card (in reality some of work is going to be duplicated to keep the same textures and scene data in both cards), and then you have to copy it from one card to the other for rendering over the pcie bus, that's latency and parts of that operation could be blocking and definately require synchronization. That means slower. I would guess pairing an x300 and 4850 would probably be slower than just using the 4850.
But we'll see. I hope I'm wrong. Reply
MamiyaOtaru - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkI'm picturing a 5870 plus a geforce 8*00 for Physx. awesome Reply
Lakku - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkMy thoughts exactly. I already have a gtx 260 216, and was thinking of upgrading to a P55 and Lynnfield anyway. I can get all that plus a 5870 for single GPU DX11, or get free performence boost using two different cards for DX10 titles, plus PhysX! Reply
faxon - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkwould be interested in this myself. i just ordered an HD5870 to replace my 9800GTX so physx support would be leet if it works, since it would fix that whole physx not working if an ATI card is detected thing, since disabling it if it's running in this type of a mode would be shooting themselves in the foot, especially if it scales better than their own technology, at no cost to them other than simply optimizing their drivers for it instead. Reply
silverblue - Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - linkHehe I just read your post properly; I suppose it takes a few days to filter through from website to website.
That, and I've not woken up yet :) Reply
silverblue - Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - linkUnfortunately, there's no chance of that...
Although Toms didn't touch on it, I expect it's partly in response to Lucid. Reply
ValiumMm - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - linkSo if you have two 4870's for example, would you not put it as crossfired in ATI settings and just let the hydra chip do its work, or would you still say to put it in crossfire? Reply
petteyg359 - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - link[quote]There are three versions of the Hydra 200: the LT22114, the LT22102 and the LT22114[/quote]
I count two plus an evil twin. Reply
chizow - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - linkAnand, how were you able to verify Bioshock was running in mixed-GPU mode? From this bit from the article:
If for any reason Lucid can't run a game in multi-GPU mode, it will always fall back to working on a single GPU without any interaction from the end user.
It seems it would've been difficult to determine if you were running in single-GPU or mixed-mode without comparing to single-GPU performance for either Nvidia part. Not to mention Bioshock does run quite well on any single GT200 or RV670 part. Just seems VERY misleading to claim you saw Bioshock running in mixed-mode without expanding on how you came to that conclusion.
Lucid claims to be able to accelerate all DX9 and DX10 games, although things like AA become easier in DX10 since all hardware should resolve the same way.
Beyond vendor specific custom AA modes, they also handle texture filtering differently. Big question marks here imo.
Which brings us to price....$72 premium for what is provided already for free or for a very small premium is a lot to ask. My main concern besides compatibility would be of course latency and input lag. I'd love to see the comparisons there, especially given many LCDs already suffer 1-2 frame input lag. Reply
AnnonymousCoward - Friday, September 25, 2009 - linkAll good points, chizow. Lag is my main concern, and if this adds 1 frame I won't even consider it. Reply
LTG - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - linkYou said Anand was "VERY misleading to claim you saw Bioshock running in mixed-mode".
For all the losers who think they detect moments of misleading journalism on Anand's part here's a clue:
If you ever did actually find "VERY misleading" journalism here then many other people would echo your sentiment. The fact that no one else is agreeing with your charges most like means you are wrong.
How old are you?
youjinbou - Thursday, September 24, 2009 - linkWhat an ugly and overused troll.
Someone detected an issue, but since he's the only one, this has to be an error on his part. Reply
chizow - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - linkNo, it just means they were mislead to believe the configuration was properly running in mixed-GPU mode, which is my point.
I'm not saying Anand was purposefully misleading, its quite possible he was also mislead to believe multi-GPU was functioning properly when there's really no way he could've known otherwise without doing some validation of his own.
Now grow up and stop worrying about MY age. Heh.
glennpratt - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - linkThis isn't a review, it's a preview of unreleased hardware. At some level, Anand can accept their word for it. If they are lying, they'll be found out soon enough. Reply
chizow - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - linkI never claimed it was a review or anything comprehensive, but if a product is highly anticipated for a few features, say:
1) Vendor Agnostic Multi-GPU
2) Close to 100% scaling
And the "preview" directly implies they've observed one of those major selling points functioning properly without actually verifying that's the case, that'd be misleading, imo, especially given the myriad questions regarding the differences in vendor render outputs.
But getting back to the earlier fella's question, I guess I'm old enough to engage in critical thinking and know better than to take everything I read on the internet at face value, even on a reputable site like Anandtech. As people who seem genuinely interested in the technology I'd think you'd want these questions answered as well, or am I wrong again? ;) Reply
petteyg359 - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - linkBoth of you grow up and learn to use the proper tense of misled, please. Reply
Dante80 - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - link...until the fat lady sang...XD
I'd written this off, thinking that it was nothing more than smoke and mirrrors...from the looks of it, I'm wrong..and also glad about it...^^
A couple of questions:
1> Will we be able to see this in AMD systems in the future, or is it an intels' exclusive?
2> Regarding the optional monitors in the pics, would this work with eyefinity? (I assume it does)
3> If this catches on (and it will if it delivers linear graphic acceleration without latency), what would this mean for driver development in nvidia and ATI? I know hydra is supposed to be driver agnostic, but
a> It would render most sli-Xfire work as an exercise in futility. (?)
b> Drivers could be optimized to take advantage of it. (?)
F3R4L - Thursday, September 24, 2009 - linkWell, seeing how Intel is an investor in the company I would take a gamble and say it will be Intel only... Reply
Mumrik - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - linkOh my! Reply
prophet001 - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - linkquit playin Reply
yacoub - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - linkInteresting but I wonder how much latency it adds to the process and how that impacts FPS games where low input latency is crucial. Reply
andrihb - Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - linkThis is my biggest worry. Latency is often a problem for me as it is. Reply
Ben90 - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - linkIm sure the latency isnt going to be that big of a problem...remember all the hype about 1156 having an integrated PCI-e controller and the massive frame rates from how the latency is going to be so low.
Howabout 1336 vs 1156; 1336 has an IMC while 1156 doesnt, yet memory performance is basically the same if both are run on dual channel (yea; 1336 is slightly faster dual channel, but its like less than 1%) Reply
adam92682 - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - link1156 has an IMC. Reply
sc3252 - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - linkI don't remember any "massive" hype, but of course I am don't buy much into hype until I see something working. I really don't think this will turn into much. I bet a few people are going to buy it like those killer nic, and maybe there will be a slight speed increase over just using your one nvidia 8800gt compared to running a 8800gt and a 3870, but I think there wont be much benefit in Lucid Hydra over SLI or crossfire.
Of courses all this speculation can end in 30 days, right? Of course though if it sucks they will say there is a driver issue that needs to be sorted out... Reply
scarywoody - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - linkErrr, so you can run 2x16 with lucid and a socket 1156 mobo? if that's the case it's an interesting move and would explain a bit about why you can only run 2x8 or 1x16 with current p55 boards. Reply
Denithor - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkI was wondering the exact same thing - how do you get support for like 32 lanes on a board where there are only 16 lanes total hardwired into the cpu? Reply
Triple Omega - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkYou don't. Just like the Nvidia Nforce splitter it is limited to the bandwidth coming from the CPU(x16 or x8 with these) and only creates extra overhead "creating" more lanes.
Only difference is that the Nvidia solution is completely useless as all it does is create more overhead, while this isn't as it has more then just a splitter function. Reply
GeorgeH - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkBecause this isn't SLI or Crossfire. :)
At a very simple level, this is essentially a DIY video card that you plug your own Frankenstein GPU combos into. For example, instead of the "old way" of slapping two 4890's together in Crossfire to have them render alternate frames (which means you "need" an x16 connection for each card), here you plug two 4850s and a 4770 into the Hydra to get one 5870 (minus the DX11) that only requires a single x16 connection.
Now we just need to find out if it works or not. Reply
sprockkets - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - linkBoth cards have a monitor cable attached to them, but you only showed one monitor. Was a dual monitor setup? Reply
yakuza78 - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - linkTaking a look to the pictures you can see both the video cables (one vga and one dvi) go to the monitor, it's just the easiest way to enable both cards, connect them to a multi input monitor. Reply
jimhsu - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - linkMaybe I don't know that much about parallelization, but isn't compartmentalizing complicated scenes a very difficult problem?
For example, most modern games have surfaces that are at least partially reflective (mirrors, metal, water, etc). Would that not mean that the reflecting surface and the object it's reflecting needs to be rendered on the same GPU? Say you have many such surfaces (a large chrome object). Isn't it a computationally hard problem to decide which surfaces will be visible to each other surface to effectively split up that workload between GPUs of different performance characteristics without "losing anything", every 1/FPS of a second?
How do they do this exactly? Reply
emboss - Saturday, September 26, 2009 - linkThis is pretty much the problem, yes. Modern graphics engines do a *lot* of render-to-texture stuff, which is the crux of the problem. If one operation writes to the texture on one GPU, and then the other operation writes to the texture on the other GPU, there's a delay while the texture is transferred between GPUs. Minimizing these transfers is the big problem, and it's basically impossible to do so since there's no communication between the game and the driver as to how the texture is going to be used in the future.
SLI/CrossFire profiles deal with this by having the developers at NV/ATI sit down and analyse the operations the game is doing. They then write up some rules from these results, specific to that game, on how to distribute the textures and operations.
Lucid are going to run into the same problem. Maybe their heuristics for dividing up the work will be better than NV/ATI's, maybe they won't. But the *real* solution is to fix the graphics APIs to allow developers to develop for multiple GPUs in the same way that they develop for multiple CPUs. Reply
andrihb - Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - linkWait.. How does it work now? Do they have to develop a different renderering engine for each GPU or GPU family? I thought APIs like DX actually took care of that shit and standardized everything :S. Reply
emboss - Tuesday, September 29, 2009 - linkDirectX and OpenGL provide a standard *software* interface. The actual hardware has a completely different (and more general) structure. The drivers take the software commands and figures out what the hardware needs to do to draw the triangle or whatever. The "problem" is that DirectX and OpenGL are too general, and the driver has to allow for all sorts of possibilities that will probably never occur.
So, there's a "general" path in the drivers. This is sort of a reference implementation that follows the API specification as closely as possible. Obviously there's one of these per family. This code isn't especially quick because of having to take into account all the possibilities.
Now, if a game is important, NV and ATI driver developers will either analyze the calls the game makes, or sit down and talk directly with the developers. From this, they will program up a whole lot of game-specific optimizations. Usually it'll be at the family level, but it's not unheard of for specific models to be targetted. Sometimes these optimizations are safe for general use and speed up everything. These migrate back into the general path.
Much more often, these optimizations violate the API spec in some way, but don't have any effect on this specific game. For example, the API spec might require that a function does a number of things, but in the game only a portion of this functionality is required. So, a game-specific implementation of this function is made that only does the bare minimum required. Since this can break other software that might rely on the removed functionality, these are put into a game-specific layer that sits on top of the general layer and is only activated when the game is detected.
This is partially why drivers are so huge nowadays. There's not just one driver, but a reference implementation plus dozens or even hundreds of game- and GPU-specific layers.
So from the game developer point of view, yes DirectX and OpenGL hide all the ugly details. But in reality, all is does is shift the work from the game developers to the driver developers. Reply
Akrovah - Thursday, September 24, 2009 - linkGenerally speaking (off the top of my head, I realy have no idea if thsi is true or not) I think this is accomplished by having all data needed to render a scene, geometry, textures, shaders, etc... on both cards, but each card is only given half of the scene to actually render. Reply
snarfbot - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - linki cant believe they actually are coming to market, everyone was talking about how this was too good to be true and here it is.
i cant wait for the benchmarks, if this is as good as it says it is, im buying.
its time for an upgrade anyway. Reply
formulav8 - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - linkEven besides the performance aspect, which they apparently didn't give any real-world figures to ponder over (I may have overlooked it though), a great many people will not buy it with such a high premium. Over $70 for the higher lane part is nutty. I will be perfectly content with AMD's and NVidias approach thankyou....
Jason Reply
JonnyDough - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkFool. Reply
wumpus - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkI'm having trouble seeing what is so great about this. It looks like paying $75 to $150 just to cut your graphics bandwidth in half. If you throw it on the P55 motherboard, you aren't losing anything in SLI mode (only one x16 lane anyway), but why pay extra money for less bandwidth anyway?
I will say this. My hat is off to anyone who buys this and can succeeds in making at least one fanboy's head explode (ATI and NVidia in the same board???!!!EleventyOne!!!????). Reply
tamalero - Thursday, September 24, 2009 - linkwho cares about lanes, if they acomplish what they promised of almost linear scaling, its a hell lot more acomplish than the 60% average performance increase from single to dual in both nvidia and ATI.
formulav8 - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkThanks! Reply
DigitalFreak - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - link$72? That's ridiculous. Even an entire chipset rarely cost that much. Reply
inighthawki - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - linktrue, but keep in mind, assuming it works, it is quite an amazing chip and does far more than a lot of other things can, plus the demand of the chip is going to be fairly low. Unlike a chipset which is needed on EVERY computer, this will only be features in the higher end motherboards. Basic economics... Reply
Chlorus - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - linkI don't think their target market really cares about price - after all, running four cards in SLI tends to be pretty expensive. Reply
Chlorus - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - linkI had written this off as vaporware, seeing as how Intel seemed to completely forget about it after last year. Reply
prophet001 - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - linkwow... just wow
and :) Reply
JAG87 - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - linkIf it works this will be the holy grail of pc gaming. Reply
gigahertz20 - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkIt's like momma always said, if it's too good to be true, it probably is.
But if it works as advertised, hydra will be going on all kinds of motherboards. Who would ever want to do SLI or crossfire, when you can buy a motherboard with this chip and get linear performance scaling with each additional video card you add.
I hope the hype lives up to the expectations, but I'm prepared for disappointment. Reply
GeorgeH - Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - linkThis.
That noise you hear is the sound of countless wallets slamming shut for the next 30 days. You'd have to be a fool to buy or build a new gaming PC until we find out how well this actually works (and exactly how much it will cost.) Reply
ianken - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkNot mine.
We know that not all GPUs render the same way. AMD AA looks different than nVidia AA. They have different modes and make different trade offs for perf.
I suspect best results will still be matched GPUs. The win is (possibly) the ability to get better load balancing than you get with SLI or Crossfire. Some games scale poorly beyond two GPUs, will this fix that? If so then THAT is the win.
What I do forsee is a gina tpile of app compat issues. Tons of forums posts that are "Hey, how to you get X working with GPUs FOO and BAR? Anyone? BUMP" Reply
MadMan007 - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkCountless is way overstating it but I'm sure some people will wait for it. Ultimately it's still a multi-GPU configuration which is a small niche. Reply
Ratinator - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkThis technology would convert me to go multi GPU. In the past I would just buy one card and by the time I needed another I would just upgrade to the latest which was usually significantly faster. I didn't want the hassle of having to get the exact same brand and model. Now I could just buy the latest and greatest and put that one in as well. Reply
YGDRASSIL - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkSo you get a new card which is three times as fast as your old. You keep the old juicesucking basterd in to get maybe a 20% speedup. Reply
Ratinator - Friday, September 25, 2009 - linkPS: The old Juice sucking bastard??? Have you seen the new ATI card and how much juice it sucks. Just because it is old doesn't mean it sucks more juice. Reply
Ratinator - Friday, September 25, 2009 - linkLast time I checked speeds didn't triple every year which is about how often I would get a new card. Reply
donjuancarlos - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkI don't know about that. I have an 8800GT that I am planning to upgrade to a DX11 card when they come out. I would have never considered an SLI setup using an older card, but with this, I would. Reply
faxon - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linklol not mine. i just ordered an HD58701GB. with that said, if it isnt up to par, i wont have any issues just getting GT300 as well when it comes out and throwing it on there if it works properly lmao. i was originally planning on getting a second card in a month anyway but that perfectly coincides with the expected launch of the big bang, so i will know whether to spend my cash there instead or not, since i was gonna get an i7 after anyway to replace my EP45-UD3P Reply
faxon - Wednesday, September 23, 2009 - linkooh also, how are single card multigpu solutions handled? they run SLI/CF on the card so wouldnt that pose some interesting issues? or could ATI/NV just use this instead of whatever silicon they are using now to bridge the cards? the low end model would be well suited to what they need to do for a fair bit cheaper and it would also solve the scaling issues some of these cards can have as well in some games lol Reply


text:
Hostelworld Recommends
We love this hostel! It gets our thumbs up for consistently high customer ratings and excellent quality scores.
Compare Results
When do you want to stay in Antwerp?
Enter dates to check availability
- Search for availability & prices
- 25 Aug 2017, 3 nights
- 2 Guests
- Change Search
- Price
- Rating
- Distance
- Name
- Display:
- List
- Gallery
Bed and Breakfast
Middelheim Guesthouse
4.4km from city centre - Show on Map
Free WiFi
Free Breakfast
Middelheim Guesthouse welcomes you anytime of the year.... More...
- Price Room Type
Hostelworld Mobile Apps
Book on the go with the new Hostelworld mobile apps.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Intel's 32nm Update: The Follow-on to Core i7 and Moreby Anand Lal Shimpi on 2/11/2009 12:00 AM EST
- Posted in
- CPUs
64 Comments
Back to Article
Oyvind - Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - link7 - 10 post are about the fact that todays sw don't use more than 2 cores in a efficent way. Well 2 - 3 years ago, there was close to none. Did Valve, Epic and others build frameworks for using multi cpu's before the hardware base was in place. The answer is no. Do most big software house today put a big effort in scaling over more cores? The answer is yes. Should Intel/Amd wait until the sw houses catch up? I don't understand it, but the spoken majority seems to answer this with a yes?
My question: When the big sw house is done with the mulri cpu frameworks, do you son't belive they then will scale over n numbers of cpu's. Userinput, rendering/gpu stuff, AI x n the deept of today etc. All real lifte arhitechure is paralell, sw is not yet, but hopefully that will change.
If lifte is good, and you have insane to much money, you stop developing, you dont need to priortize and you slowly fall back in your pillow. Yes AMD fight uphill, but if they manage to survive, nature has proven that fhigting uneven odds, will give you and middel to long term edge (ok if you survive). Tons of money dont save anything. Not sure they suvive, but if they don't a new company with clever enginers will rise somwhere in the future. Yes we need competition and there always will be. Reply
mattigreenbay - Friday, March 06, 2009 - linkThis is the end of AMD. Unless this turns out like P4 (not likely), AMD will have to release their process first or soon after [or better yet, a 16nm ultra-fast processor, and while I'm still dreaming, make it free] and have it perform better (also not likely). Poor AMD. I was going to buy a Phenom II, but Intel seems the way to go, future-wise. AMD will be liquidated, as well as VIA and Intel will go back to selling way overpriced processors that perform less than a i386 [Windows 7 certified]. Reply
mattigreenbay - Friday, March 06, 2009 - linkBut it'll come with a free super fast Intel GPU. (bye bye Nvidia too) :(
arbiter378 - Sunday, November 22, 2009 - linkIntel doesn't make fast gpu's. Even when they tried with that agp gpu ati and nvidia killed it. They won't let a new playing into a graphics market with out a fight. Lastly intel has been trying to beat amd for 40 something years, and there still not even close to beating them. Now that amd has acquired amd they have superior graphics patents. Reply
LeadSled - Friday, February 20, 2009 - linkWhat is really amazing, is the shrink proccess timetable. It looks like they will meet the timetable for our first Quantum DOT procersors. It is theorized to occure at the 1.5nm proccess and by the year 2020. Reply
KeepSix - Saturday, February 14, 2009 - linkI guess I can't blame them for changing sockets all the time, but I'm not sure if I'll be switching any time soon. My Q6600 hasn't gone past 50% usage yet, even when extreme multi-tasking (editing HD video, etc.)
I'd love to build an i7 right now, but I just can't justify it. Reply
Hrel - Thursday, February 12, 2009 - linkOn the mainstream quad-core side, it may not make sense to try to upgrade to 32nm quad-core until Sandy Bridge at the end of 2010. If you buy Lynnfield this year, chances are that you won't feel a need to upgrade until late 2010/2011.
So if you buy a quad core 8 thread 3.0 Ghz processor you will "NEED" to upgrade in one year?! What?! It doesn't make sense to upgrade just for the sake of having the latest. Upgrade when your computer can't run the programs you need it to anymore; or when you have the extra money and you'll see at least a 30 percent minimum increase in performance. You should be good for at least 2 years with Lynnfield and probably 4 or 5 years. Reply
QChronoD - Thursday, February 12, 2009 - linkHe's saying that the people who have no qualms about throwing down a grand on just the processor are going to want to upgrade to the 32nm next year.
However for the rest of us that don't shit gold, picking up a Lynnfield later this year will tide us over until 2011 fairly happily. Reply
AnnonymousCoward - Thursday, February 12, 2009 - link> However for the rest of us that don't shit gold, picking up a Lynnfield later this year will tide us over until 2011 fairly happily.
My C2D@3GHz will hold me over to 2011... Reply
MadBoris - Thursday, February 12, 2009 - linkI watch roadmaps from time to time and I know where AMD has potential.
Simplify the damn roadmap, platforms, chipsets, sockets!
Seriously, I need a spread sheet and calculator to keep it all straight.
Glad Anand gave kind of a summary for were and when it makes sense to upgrade but I just don't have the patience to filter through it all to the end I get a working knowledge of it.
One thing AMD has been good at in the past if they continue, is to keep upgrades simple. I don't want a new motherboard and new socket on near every CPU upgrade. I'm not sure if mobo makers love it or hate it, obviously they get new sales but it's kind of nuts.
This alone, knowing I have some future proofing on the mobo, makes CPU upgrades appealing and easy and something I would take advantage of.
As far as the GPU/CPU it's nothing I will need for years to come. We will have to wait until it permeates the market before it gets used by devs, just like multicore. It will at least take consoles implementing it before game devs start utilizing it, and even then it's liable to take a lot of steps back in performance (it's only hype now)... Reply
tacoburrito - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkI fail to see the purpose of introducing the 6 core/Gulfstream. Most software could barely take advantage of 4 core, let alone 6. It seems like Intel just want to brag they can cram many cores into a single package without evidence that 6 cores will improve performance. It's almost like the mhz wars from the 1990s. Instead of spending time on a 6 core chip, why couldn't they just bring out Sandy Bridge earlier? Reply
aeternitas - Friday, February 13, 2009 - linkIt cant be that the applications that DO have multicore support arnt professional apps that small and large businesses use to make money now could it?
Simple because Intel doesn't cater to your browsing and downloading torrents needs doesn't mean its not a good idea to get the ball rolling.
Oh and hmm, lets see why don't they just go strait to Sandy Bridge that's a good one hmmm maybe its because they DONT HAVE TO. AMD is 18 months behind. Reply
7Enigma - Thursday, February 12, 2009 - linkCheck back a couple pages, I think we posted exactly the same thing, as I completely agree with you. :)
The only thing I can think of is since the server market pays the bills in a sense they are tailoring the chip for that purpose and just making a consumer level chip that will still be tops but probably not as nice in most instances as a faster quad. Reply
pattycake0147 - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkOn the first page the article talks about two Arizona fabs, but the picture indicates that there is one Arizona fab and one New Mexico fab. So which is correct? Reply
scruffypup - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkIf I remember right (living here in the Phoenix area), there are 3 buildings in Chandler at the site,... 2 of them will be coverted over to the 32nm process, the 3rd building is no longer going to be used apparently,.... or will use the 3rd for something else,...
"Specifically, Intel is upgrading two of its three manufacturing plants, called "fabs," at its Ocotillo campus in Chandler to make 32-nanometer-size chips." Reply
INDVote - Thursday, February 12, 2009 - linkNo, only one fab in AZ is being converted, Intel's newest Fab 32. They are not closing any one or both other buildings. They appear to be "merging" two of them.
F11X is in New Mexico, and will be converted over. There are no plant closings in NM.
D1D and D1C are both at the same location in Oregon and are being converted. Reply
pattycake0147 - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkHowever, the three buildings combined are called Fab 32. Fab 11X as chopshiy pointed out is in New Mexico. The article isn't referring to individual buildings, but sets of buildings.
Thanks chopshiy, I didn't see your post earlier. Reply
vlado08 - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkI am wondering about the integrated graphics in Clarkdale/Arrandale will it be DirectX 11 compliant? Is it going to be better than GMA X4500? What about h264 acceleration, 8 channel LPCM support and working 24p? Reply
chophshiy - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - link11X is in New Mexico as the caption on the pic says. Specifically Rio Rancho, NM, near Albuquerque. It's OK, you'd be surprised how many times I've spoken with someone in the US on the phone that told me I was calling the wrong number, since they don't support locations outside the US. Go American education!
philosofool - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkDoes anyone know what the lifespan of LGA 1156 will be? Is intel expected to change sockets again when we reach Sandy Bridge? Is there any chance that I will have be able to get one mother board to last me several years? Reply
strikeback03 - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkMight depend on who you buy the motherboard from. My motherboard is a P965 and is not Penryn compatible, though other P965 boards are. There might be both hardware (say, power delivery) and software (BIOS) considerations to future generation processors. Reply
haukionkannel - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkWery little change. Intel ghange their soccets when they do new architechture prosessor. Only reason would be that AMD would be so cpmpetative that there would be a real prize war... By making new soccet they can make more money!
Nfarce - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - link"Now that isn't to say that the six-core 32nm Gulftown will work in existing X58 motherboards; while that would be nice, Intel does have a habit of forcing motherboard upgrades, we'll have to wait and see." Unfortunately, my trusty nearly three year old E6600/ASUS P5W croaked and I need a new build *now* (my PS3 is no real sub for PC gaming :p ). I was going to just go cheap and build an E8500/P45 rig, but after reading this, I'm debating whether I should just go ahead and throw down the extra several hundred on an i7 build for future upgrade insurance. I'm leaning more towards the latter. Reply
CSMR - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkGreat article; nice work putting it together so fast! Reply
weevil - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkMy question is this. I've got a QX9650 at 3.2ghz on an x38 asus P5E3 Deluxe. Is it worth upgrading anytime this year to the i7 or am I fast enough to hold out until the Quad Core Gulftown rolls around in early 2010?
Decisions decisions... Reply
ssj4Gogeta - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkGulftown is 6 cores. :) Reply
weevil - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkYikes!
Yummy ; ) Reply
dickeywang - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkI guess I'll just keep my Thinkpad T61p (Merom T7300) for another 10 months. Thanks AnandTech. Reply
ssj4Gogeta - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkI think this is a very good move.
Want the highest end? Go for i7 now and upgrade to Gulftown hexa-core next year.
Want a mainstream quad? buy lynnfield at the end of this year and upgrade to Sandy Bridge at the end of the next year.
Are satisfied with your E8x00, or another dual core and think quad-core is a waste of money? Go for Clarckdale at the end of this year.
Want to buy a notebook? The 32nm Arrandale will deliver excellent performance with great power savings and an on package graphics processor for even more power saving.
Want to buy a powerful quad-core notebook? Go for Nehalem based Clarcksfield 45nm, which should deliver quite a lot of performance over current mobile CPU's, with Nehalem's power saving features as well, but not as much power savings as Arrandale. Reply
7Enigma - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkI'm a bit dissapointed that the next top of the line chip will be 6-core instead of a pumped quad. We are still in multi-core infancy with very few programs taking advantage of anything over dual-core, and almost nothing taking FULL advantage of quad-core. I just don't see how 6-core will be more beneficial than a higher clocked 4-core...
As it stands, however, if the power efficiency is legit my next computer may very well be a laptop. Reply
Jovec - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkTake a look at your Program Menu and tell me what apps today that are not multithreaded would receive serious benefit from being multithreaded? Besides gaming? Single-thread apps do receive benefits from multiple cores in typical usage scenarios because they can be run on a (semi) dedicated core and not interfere with other apps. Reply
philosofool - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkInteresting thought. I'm hoping that with the mainstreaming of the dual core, multi-threaded apps become more common and that the single to dual jump turns out to be the biggest leap. But it's really just a hope on my part, don't know if it will happen.
Isn't there a multitasking advantage with 4 core machines? Also, once we start ripping 720 and 1080p files, 6 cores is gonna be hot. Reply
7Enigma - Thursday, February 12, 2009 - linkThere are definite multitasking advantages with quadcore if you are heavily multitasking (i'd argue tri-core is probably used more effectively currently than that final 4th core). Single to dual, however, was a much greater difference for multitasking on the whole.
I just don't see the quad-hex jump being more beneficial than quad-juicedquad in this case. Reply
strikeback03 - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkYeah, can't say I'm real happy about the lack of a 32nm quad-core for 1366. If my motherboard supported Penryn I'd probably just buy one of those cheap, getting an SSD, and waiting for Sandy Bridge. Since it doesn't, the decision is more difficult. Probably depends how much business I get this year. Reply
Pakman333 - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkDailyTech says Lynnfield will come in Q3? Hopefully it will have ECC support.
iwodo - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkSSE 4.2 doesn't bring much useful performance to consumers.
There is no Dual Core Westmere or Nehalem. Not without Intel Sh*test Graphics On Earth.
No wonder why Unreal Dev and Valve are complaining that Intel GFX is basically Toxic....
And i cant understand why Anand is excited, Macbook with Intel Graphics all over again?
And Just before anyone who say Intel Gfx will improve. Please refer to history, from G965 to their X series are so full of Marketing BS.... And never did they delivery what they promised. Reply
ssj4Gogeta - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linknoone's forcing you to use G45. you can still use discrete gfx cards. Reply
Daemyion - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkActually, they fully delivered on the marketing. It's just that when Nvidia/ATI delivered products in the same space Intels product looked rubbish. There is nothing wrong with the G45 other than it not being an 9400 or a 790GX. Reply
Spoelie - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkwasn't yonah the first processor out at the 65nm node? if so intel did perform the same stunt earlier, only at 45nm did they not release a laptop version first. Reply
IntelUser2000 - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkNo, the Pentium 955XE based on Pentium D was. Reply
Calin - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - link[quote]but at 45nm Intel's switched from a SiO2 gate dielectric to a high-k one using Halfnium[/quote]
It's Hafnium (even if halfnium sounds better) Reply
aapocketz - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkhafnium is great for dielectrics. I hope their yields are good since its very expensive. Most CVD processes are only efficient in the single digit %. Reply
MrPoletski - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkdoesn't sound as good as unobtanium. Reply
melgross - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkI just don't see how AMD competes, long term. With Intel moving to 32nm faster than expected, and with mainstream parts, that would put them 18 months ahead of AMD, unless somehow, they manage to pull off a similar coup. But it doesn't look as though they will be able to.
We might remember that a bit over a year ago, AMD stated quite boldly, that they would move to within 6 months of Intel's process changes, but they are still a year behind. No progress there. Unless they can manage to switch around their roadmap the way Intel seems to be able to do, they will fall further behind. Reply
LordanSS - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkI think we should wait and see how things will turn out. Now that AMD has spun off their fabs to a separate company, it's no longer their (AMD) job to invest on new manufacturing processes.
Hopefully, now that the Foundry company has more "freedom", and injection of capital from sources outside of AMD, it'll be able to increase the pace of the shrinking processes.
Besides all that, doesn't AMD graphics division make use of TSMC's fabs to make their chips? Reply
PrinceGaz - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkTSMC's fabs will always be a generation or so behind the like of Intel's own, just as AMD (with IBM's assistance) were ahead of them in the past.
I can't see AMDs fab company getting much outside investment in the current economic climate -- new state-of-the-art fab facilities are too expensive and there is no guarantee of profitable contracts to keep them busy. The Foundry Company is never going to catch up with Intel unless a miracle happens, and TSMC etc will likely be direct competitors.
Intel are speeding up their fab and process development because they have money in the bank and continued profits to fuel it. AMD are in dire-straits financially and making a loss. Even with the risks hedge-fund managers take, they'd be mad to put money into AMD just now. Reply
Triple Omega - Sunday, February 15, 2009 - linkI wouldn't count AMD out just yet if I were you. One false move from Intel and an unexpected innovation from AMD and they're back on their feet. If in Q4 2007 you said Ati would level the playing field with Nvidia the following year most would call you crazy, yet it still happened. So I still have hopes for AMD. Reply
ucsdmike - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkAMD's staff will be hitting the bar tomorrow.
This is amazing news from Intel. It is an exciting move.
Looking forward to cooler and longer running laptops in the near future. Reply
icecold101 - Monday, August 24, 2009 - linkAMD still has one thing that intel dosent have... low prices. these new cores will cost more than $1000! In the slumping economy it isn't the best time to ask for top dollar. Reply
Ryun - Thursday, February 12, 2009 - linkMore reason to work extra hard maybe?
In all seriousness, I have a feeling AMD might pull a rabbit out of it's hat like ATi did with the 4 series with their new architecture. Actually, technically they did with Phenom II but really it was just too late in the game to make the significant dent that ATi's 4 series did (though I'd say the triple cores this round are a big win).
At any rate, 2011 (Bulldozer, or whatever they're calling it now) better be huge. The 65nm X2s were somewhat competitive with Conroe, but after that it just started going downhill. If Bulldozer doesn't do it I don't think AMD is going to be able to get back up. =( Reply
blyndy - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkLet me see if I've got this straight: in 2H'09 (I would actually bet Q3'09) we will finally see the Core i5 quads-cores (Lynnfield/Clarksfield) (on a new LGA-1156 socket), which should have been released in Dec'08.
So the 45nm Core i5 quads will be the highest performing CPU available for LGA-1156, positioning above the 32nm Clarkdale/Arrandale dual-cores (the 'Core i5 Duo' maybe?) which arrive in Q4'09
How do they indent to make the LGA-1366 platform have better overclockability, i7 and i5 are almost the same, are they going to actively prevent OC'ing on i5? that would be ridiculous.
Somehow I don't think that the artificial socket segmentation will have a significant number of enthusiast herded into LGA-1366 to get the higher margin cash-cow that Intel has planned it to be. Reply
Triple Omega - Sunday, February 15, 2009 - linkIntel isn't going to artificially limit overclocking directly, but it is indirectly by redirecting the better chips to 1366. So the i7 CPU's will be cherry-picked versions of the i5's and thus will overclock better. Besides that the only socket with Extreme versions will be 1366.(Though that is a niche within a niche really) Reply
philosofool - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkOverclockers are a very small fraction of the market. I'm not even sure intel is thinking about overclockability when they engineer chips. Overclockability is more an artefact of good engineering than a design goal from the outset. Overclockers are always paranoid that intel or AMD is out to get them by intentionally crippling chips. There just aren't enough of us for Intel to be concerned. We're like 1% of the total CPU market.
Pretty much every chip that intel has released at any price point since the introduction of Core 2 has been wonderfully overclockable. I wouldn't worry that Intel is going to change that soon, especially since Core i5 is basically just mainstream processor with the same design fundamentals as the excellent i7. Reply
JonnyDough - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkAlthough I understand it's a hobby, I don't care if people can overclock or not. As long as we have fast chips at a good price and they're faster than what we have...I mean, why would you care? Isn't it all about SPEED? Reply
ssj4Gogeta - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linki5 probably won't have an extreme version. Reply
Bezado11 - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkI wouldn't be surprised if the opposite was true. I'm really sick of all the hype on shrinking creates less heat. Look at the gpu industry, ever since they started shrinking things got hotter and hotter, and now it seems with i7 even though it's not a die shrink and we are use to 45nm by now, the new hardware to support minor changes in architecture of the cpu seem to make things run hotter.
I7 is way to hot. The newest GPU's run way to hot. Reply
Lightnix - Thursday, February 12, 2009 - linkBut you're making an unfair comparison - for example, the current latest GPUs have only been produced on the newest nodes, ever. Now, if we take for example, a Radeon 3870 vs. a Radeon 2900 XT, the former draws far less power and will overclock better on air, almost directly as a result of them shrinking from a 80nm to a 55nm process, despite them performing exactly the same. Another example is the Core 2 E8000 series and E6000 series. Despite the increase in cache size, the E8000 dissipates little enough heat that they can provide them with a very tiny heatsink compared to the earlier 65nm cores, and objectively they draw much less power at the same clock speed because they run at lower volts.
You can see this sort of thing again and again throughout the technology industry, Coppermine (180nm) -> Tualatin(130nm), GeForce 7800 -> 7900, G80 -> G92, etc., etc.
If you were to compare say, a GTX280 to a 8800 GTX and say the former draws much more power than the 8800 GTX, AND it's produced on a smaller process - well, yes, but that's because they've clocked it higher and there are far more transistors (twice as many, in fact). Reply
Mr Perfect - Thursday, February 12, 2009 - linkThat's because every time they shrink the chips they pack in new features and push the clock speed to the bleeding edge. If all they did was die shrink the old tech, we'd all be running something like an Atom CPU right now. Atoms closely resemble Pentium 3s, but on modern manufacturing only draw what? 5 watts? Reply
V3ctorPT - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkThe GPU's run hotter, because they pack double the transistors with a new shrink, than their previous HW... Reduction of the manufacturing process enables that we can have so much more transistors in the same place, of course it gets hot... Reply
JonnyDough - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkI think you need to re-read the manufacturing roadmap page. It details the leakage gain (heat). Reply
Targon - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkFor the CPU market, the problem is the ever growing amount of cache memory. Intel processors are designed with the large cache being their solution to improvements that AMD brings to the table.
I suspect that Intel will have more trouble after this move to the new fab process because the difficulty in moving to a new process node grows at an exponential rate. We saw Intel hit a wall with the Pentium 3 line because they were not ready for a new process shrink at that point, so the P4 came out. When Intel got their process technology on track, the people at Intel could go back to the Pentium 3 design(with improvements) to release the Core and Core 2 Duo.
There will come a time when an all new design will be needed in order to hold on to their lead, and that is when AMD will probably catch back up, if AMD can survive until then.
BSMonitor - Thursday, February 12, 2009 - linkWhat an utter load of BS. Thanks fanboy.
You get all that from wiki? Reply
PrinceGaz - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkEven though my last three CPUs were all from AMD (they made sense at the time- K6-III/400, Athlon XP 1700+, Athlon 64 X2 4400+), I have to disagree with your comment about the improvements (presumably the integrated memory controller) which AMD brings to the table.
With Core i7, Intel has effectively removed the one last technological advantage AMD had- faster memory access. The fact that Intel chips still tend to have larger L3 caches is quite simply because they can afford to give it to them, as they are ahead of AMD on the fab-process. For a high-end desktop chip where there is die-space to spare, you could add some more cores which will probably sit idle (keeping four busy is hard enough, especially with HT), but adding more L3 cache (so long as the latency of it is not adversely affected) is a very cheap and easy way to use up the space and provide a bit of a speedup in almost everything.
AMD is currently fighting a losing game. The Phenom II (bug-fixed Phenom) cannot compete with Core i7 with AMDs current fabs, and unlike Intel who have the tick-tock steady new-process, then new-design with large teams working on each step; AMD seem to have one team working on a new design, which has to be made to work with whichever process looks like the best option at the time.
We need AMD to survive for the x86 (or x64, who came up with that :p ) CPU market to be competitive, but I think the head of AMD is going to have to get into bed with the head of IBM, else they are doomed to fall ever further behind Intel in chip-design. The K10 is promising, but a long way off still, and AMD hasn't exactly been raking in the billions of dollars of profits recently to do that R&D. VIA have found an x86 CPU niche they can compete in, I fear that unless AMD pull an elephant out the hat with the K10, they'll have to slot in between VIA and Intel in providing CPUs specialising in a particular performance-sector, with Intel being the undisputed leader. Reply
JonnyDough - Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - linkWell said. I concur. Reply


text: The Most Dangerous Sport for Women? Try Cheerleading (NewsUSA) - It turns out that cheerleaders and football players have something in common you might not have guessed: concussions. According to a new study in the Journal of Pediatrics that found cheerleading to be by far the most dangerous activity for female athletes -- accounting for 66 percent of their catastrophic sport injuries -- more than a third of girls who suffer a concussion don't even recognize the symptoms well enough to report it. The research comes on the heels of numerous news stories in recent years alleging concussion-related brain injuries among pro football players. But unlike football, cheerleading isn't even officially recognized as a "sport" by most high school athletic associations -- a failure Dr. Jay Greenstein, CEO of Sport and Spine Rehab and the official team chiropractor for the Washington Redskins cheerleaders, for one, insists needs correcting. "We're at a critical juncture here," he says. Most of the injuries incurred in cheerleading are to those catching others thrown through the air. "Catastrophic" ones, regardless of the circumstances, result in shorter lifespans, permanent disability, or long-term medical conditions. Given all the sport's stress to the body -- and the spine in particular -- experts increasingly view chiropractic care as an important part of their preventive and post-injury care. "Chiropractic treatment and functional injury prevention programs can and will improve recovery times and maximize performance," says Dr. Greenstein, who's also a member of the not-for-profit Foundation for Chiropractic Progress. Learn more at www.yes2chiropractic.org. < Prev Next >


text:
Welcome to Dragon Cave! Dragon Cave is an online adoptables game. Collect eggs, raise them to adulthood, and then breed them to create interesting lineages. New types of dragons are added regularly!
Dorsal Dragons are so named because they have large fins along their backs that can be raised and lowered at will. They use these fins to regulate body temperature; they raise them to cool off when they become overheated. The bright colors on the fins double as a means of attracting mates.
Dragons are creatures with nearly unlimited life spans. They can survive for long periods of time, and no one has found a dragon that has died of old age. Adolescence is usually marked by the growth of a hatchling's wings, although not all breeds of dragons grow wings and some breeds have other traits that indicate the beginning of maturation. Once they hit adolescence, hatchlings change quickly, maturing to their full forms in only 2 years.
Dragons don't communicate with each other verbally, but they will growl to scare off predators and frighten prey. Young dragons will emit an extremely high-pitched squeal when they are frightened. To communicate, they use telepathy with each other and to speak to other creatures.


text:
Gators survive Dolphins, 8-5
Published: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 10:00 p.m.
Last Modified: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 10:37 p.m.
JACKSONVILLE — In a back-and-forth affair in the front end of a home-and-home series against Jacksonville, Florida scored twice in the seventh inning to take the lead and added a pair of insurance runs in the ninth to collect an 8-5 victory on Tuesday night at John Sessions Stadium. The teams will meet again on Wednesday at McKethan Stadium.
Up next
Who: Jacksonville (4-8) at Florida (6-7)
When: Wednesday, 7 p.m.
Where: McKethan Stadium
Gainesville-area radio: AM-850
Sophomore right-hander Johnny Magliozzi (2-0) matched his career high with six strikeouts over 3.1 scoreless innings to earn the win, freshman Harrison Bader was a career-best 3-for-4 with three runs and sophomore Casey Turgeon started the game with a homer and was 2-for-4 with three runs as the Gators (6-7) claimed their third win in a row.
Turgeon opened the contest by homering down the left-field line off of junior right-hander Zach Gordon, becoming the first Gator to start a contest with a home run since Nolan Fontana accomplished the feat against Oregon State on June 5, 2010, during the NCAA Gainesville Regional. It was Turgeon's third homer of the season to match redshirt sophomore Zack Powers for the team lead.
With Jacksonville (4-8) up 5-4 in the seventh, Florida scored the tying run on two-out passed ball and went ahead on a wild pitch. Turgeon singled through the left side with one down and Bader followed with a double into the gap in left-center for two runners in scoring position. After Powers struck out, junior Jimmy Appleby replaced Baker (1.0 IP, 2 H, 2 R). Turgeon raced home for a 5-5 game on a passed ball by Luther and Bader scored on ball four to Shafer when Appleby's pitch eluded Luther.
The Gators and Dolphins will wrap up the series on Wednesday at McKethan Stadium at 7 p.m.
Reader comments posted to this article may be published in our print edition. All rights reserved. This copyrighted material may not be re-published without permission. Links are encouraged.


text:
- Product Details
Whether you want to give your son a gift to hang on the family Christmas tree this year or he is getting his own tree for the first time and you want to make it special, our Personalised Son Christmas Bauble is a thoughtful gift that he will treasure for many years to come.
Add your son's name in up to 12 characters above the brightly coloured Santa character on the front of this fantastic tree decoration.
You will find there is still space for 4 lines of up to 20 characters each on the reverse for your own special message.
Each bauble comes with its own ribbon attached so it's ready to hang (ribbon colour may vary) and measures approx. Height: 7 CM Width: 7 CM Depth: 7 CM.
- Customer Review
- Delivery & Returns
We are aware of how important it is for you to receive your gifts in time. Therefore, once you place your order we will process straight away and dispatch as soon as they are ready to go. We usually dispatch all items within 24-48 hours, however, this may be a little longer during special occasions such as Mother's Day, Father's Day, Christmas, etc. If multiple items ordered, we may dispatch items separately or all together, depending on the process.
*2nd CLASS ROYAL MAIL
Sent via 2nd Class Mail for only £3.99.
*1st CLASS ROYAL MAIL
Sent via 1st Class Mail for only £4.99.
Sent via Royal Mail Tracked for only £5.99.
Orders received by 2pm, sent via next working day courier tracked service for only £7.99.
Orders received by 2pm, sent via Royal Guaranteed Saturday Delivery for only £9.99.
The cost for delivery to European countries is calculated based on the destination. Please allow approx. 2-5 working days from dispatch, however, this is not guaranteed.
Below areas will incur a remote area surcharge - £30
*Italy: Livigno & Trepalle, San Marino, Vatican City
*Spain: Ceuta, Melilla
*Finland: Aland Islands
*Free delivery excludes items that are on offer or discounted from the original price and sent via 2nd Class Royal Mail, only UK.
*2nd Class Royal Mail - Royal Mail aim to deliver within two to three days, however, this is not guaranteed by Royal Mail, only UK.
*1st Class Royal Mail - Royal Mail aim to deliver your order one to two days, however, this is not guaranteed by Royal Mail, only UK.
*Premium Tracked - Royal Mail aim to deliver your order the next day, however, this is not guaranteed by Royal Mail, only UK.
*Next Working Day - All Orders placed before 2pm will be delivered next working day (Excludes Northern Ireland, Overseas UK addresses, and Parts of Scotland).
*Saturday Delivery - All Orders placed before 2pm will be delivered Saturday (Excludes Northern Ireland, Overseas UK addresses, and Parts of Scotland).
*All our items require production time and this is stated on individual product pages.
We're sure that you will be satisfied with your purchase and we also understand that sometimes you may want to return. We keep this process simple! Just contact us if you wish to return goods. Please note: personalised, made-to-order and perishable items are non-refundable.
- Ask a Question
Ask a Question
Question about: Personalised Christmas Bauble - SonPlease do not include or disclose any sensitive personal information, password or credit card information in your message. Your personal security is extremely important to us.No questions yet. Be the first to ask the question!
Show more products in Personalised Christmas Baubles


text:
"fgallery" is a static photo gallery generator with no frills that has a stylish, minimalist look. It shows your photos, and nothing else. There is no server-side processing, only static generation. The resulting gallery can be uploaded anywhere without additional requirements and works with any modern browser.
Sandbox is a personal Web site package that provides you with a blog, image gallery, file download area, and the ability to create miscellaneous custom Web pages. Many other blog/Web site packages like Wordpress only do one thing. Most blog packages do not also provide a good image gallery or a good downloads module. You can get these things in separate packages, but integrating them into one site is difficult, involving code bridges and incompatible skinning systems. Sandbox aims to have all of these things integrated into one package.
Saint CMS is a combination CMS and eCommerce package built atop a rapid development framework. It is high performance, easy to use, and provides convenient tools for creating sites with custom content types. It includes a built-in blog, an image gallery, a slideshow, a file manager, a shop with downloadable product options, an event logging system, a WYSIWYG editor, and more.
easyGG is an automatic gallery generator. It features automatic image rotation based on EXIF info, automatic scaling for Web usage, automatic generation of linked pages, and an index page with thumbnails. When executed in a directory with JPEG or PNG images, it creates a subdirectory with a ready-to-use gallery.
tmphoto is a Web photo gallery with a fairly advanced metadata structure, allowing photos to be described in terms of place, category, persons in the photo, and events. The places, categories, persons, and events can be further described. It offers a nice browsing interface based on the metadata.
Pipho is a Web-based image gallery that is optimized for the iPhone and iPad. It is based on the original iPhone Photos application. The presentation layer is the Jaipho JavaScript gallery. It will read images from the desired folder, create resized thumbnails and slide images, and also will dump JavaScript read images part. In addition, it will read text files as descriptions for both gallery and slides. It has a mechanism for iPhone and iPad detection.
TurnKey Gallery Appliance is a server appliance for Gallery, a Web application for the management and publication of digital photographs and other media. Photo manipulation features includes automatic thumbnails, resizing, rotation, and flipping. It is designed to be easy to use and easy to maintain. Security patches are automatically installed. It provides a Web management interface, configuration console, and an AJAX Web shell. To minimize footprint the appliance is built from the ground up with the minimum required components. It runs everywhere thanks to multiple build formats, including an installable live CD, a VMDK with OVF support, and an Amazon EC2 AMI.
PHP Photo Gallery is a powerful photo gallery script. It offers easy installation and easy management. It can create an online photo gallery with unlimited albums, subalbums, and photos. It can rotate, crop, lighten, darken, blur, and otherwise modify photos online. It allows you to upload many images at once. It supports watermarking with an image or text, user comments and ratings (optional), automatic thumbnail generation, template driven customization, interactive slideshows, the ability to extract EXIF data, and integrated search engine optimization, and RSS feeds. It can show random photos, the latest photos, or favorite photos.
A Dart Web server.
A PHP/MySQL tile engine for Google Maps.


text:
Kyokusen Digital Tube LED watch
Love this watch. They used to have it in all blue LEDs which i like much more. In a perfect world, i would take this watch face (with the blue LEDs, of course) with the body of that Nooka Zub Zot (in white or gray) i posted. haha, I'm sure that was helpful to any of you interested in this particular watch though. Back to the subject at hand, it's available in two eye-catching color combinations; IP black case with black leather strap and multi colored lights or IP silver case with mottled leather strap and multi colored lights, Kyokusen is one of the most impressive and popular designs from the Tokyoflash design studio. Using cutting edge digital tube technology the display is noticeably brighter than typical LED watches and is viewable from a much wider angle. The name Kyokusen which means curved line in Japanese was inspired from the shape of the main display. Each lit segment of the curve indicates one hour and the circular array of lights represent the minutes, the outer circle showing time progression in groups of five minutes, the inner circle showing single minutes one to four. A single push of the upper button initiates a brief animation of lights before the time is displayed, pushing the lower button displays the time immediately. Very cool but i reeeeeally wish they would bring the blue LEDs back and do a more up-to-date design for the body. A boy can only hope. :-/ p&L


text:
|Preview Image
Item images are no longer available
|Item ID #
|Start Time
|End Time
|Seattle Goodwill
|Seattle, WA
|MUST BE RECEIVED WITHIN seven (7) DAYS from auction close.
Available Payment Methods: or (Via PayPal)
|Shipping / Handling
|Buyer pays shipping No International Shipments
This item ships via
Shipping Weight 2 lbs.
Actual Weight 1 lbs.
Get Estimated Shipping & Handling
Minimum shipment weight is 1lb., items weighing less than 1lb. will be calculated at the 1lb. rate.
Items are shipped using a major carrier usually within 5 business days after receipt of payment. Shipping charges are calculated at payment time.
A handling fee of $4.00 applies to this item, regardless of delivery method including pick up.
|Returns Policy
|Please read our return policy below.
|High bidder
|w*****s For the protection of our buyers, the bidder name is only visible to the bidder.
|# of bids
1 ( bid history)
Frequently asked questions:
I can't remember my Buyer ID and Password.
What is proxy bidding?
What is a reserve price?
Can I lose by less than the minimum bid increment?
Vintage Binoculars Chevallier Opticien Paris
Current Price: $9.99
Seller: Seattle Goodwill
Rolex No. 15715 7X50 Binoculars w/ Case
Current Price: $45.03
Seller: Goodwill Industries of Upstate/Midlands South Carolina
Steiner 7x50 IF Wide Field Binoculars
Current Price: $27.00
Seller: Southern Oregon Goodwill Industries
Item images are no longer available
This is a Pair of Selsi 10x25 PC Compact Binoculars.
This item is in good used condition, with some minor cosmetic marks from previous handling. These binoculars focus well, and have no apparent structural damage.
Please see photos for additional detail, and feel free to ask questions!
(Store: G4)
View other items for sale by this seller
All items are sold as-is. Items can only be returned with prior authorization and any item returned without authorization
will be considered a donation and will not be refunded. All measurements and weights are approximate. We strive for the most professional evaluation of all the items that we list and in this case as with every case, we use due diligence to make sure the item is listed with correct and complete information. As always our items can be returned if they are significantly different than described.
Important Shipping Information: We do offer combined shipping on a case by case basis. Please note that we are unable to combine larger, heavy items such as guitars, speakers and most stereo equipment. Also jewelry and non-jewelry items cannot be combined.
Seller Contact Information:Seattle Goodwill
1400 South Lane Street
Seattle, WA, 98144
Return Policy: Merchandise is sold As Is. Returns will only be accepted with prior authorization and under the terms stated in this Return Policy. If you have questions regarding the quality or authenticity of this item please contact Seattle Goodwill prior to placing your bid. Items may be returned within two weeks from the date received if the merchandise was damaged during shipping or if there was a major distortion in the description. Returns will not be accepted without prior authorization. PLEASE NOTE THAT WE DO NOT REFUND SHIPPING AND HANDLING CHARGES. Items selected for pick up from the seller, must be picked up within two weeks (14 days) from close of auction. Items not picked up from seller within two weeks (14 days) from close of auction will be resold with no further notice.


text:
We are currently searching "Store" for your search term.
If you'd like to search another section of our website,
please select another section from the drop down list.
$10 Credit is Applied on You Account
When Your friend place his first order.
Plus you will receive additional $5
For every 20 items that friend will
Active Filters:
You have no items to compare.
Just a quick note to thank you very much for sending the sewing kit mould to me so quickly.I thought it would take weeks and weeks, not days to reach me.
You have no items in your shopping cart.
Items 16 to 16 of 16 total
Sixlets are the candy coated chocolate flavored candies you've loved since you were a kid! These fun candies come in a variety of colors, with each color having a slightly different taste than the next, thanks to their candy coated shells.
These bright and shiny colors are perfect for baking, cake decorating, party favors and ice cream.
Out of stock


text:
We are a not-for-profit performing arts center who presents and produces a wide variety of quality performing arts, advances arts education and creates a neighborhood that is a superior destination for entertainment, business and residential living, thereby strengthening the economic vitality of the region.
Presenting and producing a variety of the finest entertainment for the betterment of the community. more
A national leader in engaging the community through enriching experiences in the performing arts. more
A major area developer creating a vibrant destination and economically-strong neighborhood. more
A not-for-profit that must raise over $4 million dollars annually to continue improving the region's quality of life. more


text:
Primary specialty: Optometry in Huntsville, AL2 views - No reviews yet - be the first to write a review
Dr. Brian D Baxter specializes in optometry in Huntsville area. Dr. Brian D Baxter, OD has a medical practice at 3501 Memorial Parkway Southwest, Ste 200, Huntsville AL, and has over 17 years of experience in the field of medicine. He graduated from Southern California College Of Optometry with his medical degree in 2000. Dr. Baxter is accepting new patients at his medical office and practice location in Huntsville, Alabama. He is available for appointments, preventative care, medical care as well as ongoing patient care.
Check locations where Dr. Brian practices near Huntsville AL and make an appointment.
Specialty: Optometry
He received medical licensing as follows:
An affiliated hospital is a hospital where a doctor can practice and admit patients. Dr. Brian D Baxter is professionally affiliated with multiple hospitals in Huntsville area and more.
Appointments may be made for routine visits or new problems that you may be experiencing. Knowing what questions to ask before, during and after appointments is vital to better understand, and therefore manage, an illness.
Dr. Brian's opening hours:
Dr. Brian D Baxter does not have any insurances listed.
If your insurance plan is accepted and have any questions regarding your insurance, please visit the office location or call to this doctor find out.
There are currently no reviews for Dr. Brian in Huntsville, Alabama. Tell us about your experience by posting a comment or review about Dr. Brian to help others decide which doctor is right for them.


text:
The fear of Jell-O brand gelatin or any type of gelatin, jelly included. Characterised by the avoidance of such materials and the refusal to consume said materials. People with gelatinophobia often find the wiggling of gelatin based food gross.
Nathan: I won't be eating jelly for a very long time.
Mike: I guess you caught Kel's gelatinophobia.
Mike: I guess you caught Kel's gelatinophobia.
by miketaba November 29, 2005
The Urban Dictionary Mug
One side has the word, one side has the definition. Microwave and dishwasher safe. Lotsa space for your liquids.Buy the mug


text: HR Leaders 2013 Crain's and Howard & O'Brien Executive Search are proud to honor the champions of Northeast Ohio's outstanding human resources community. Comments Email Print August 14, 2013 Updated Related LinksThe Big Issue: March 14, 2011What happens if we're no longer witnesses? Morning Roundup Business headlines from Crain's Cleveland Business and other Ohio newspapers — delivered FREE to your inbox every morning. Sign up for the Morning Newsletter.


text:
A "City" fights to end poverty
Posted by kkoski on06Aug
Civil rights leaders and others gather in nation's capital to demand change
They came by train. Some traveled by bus. Others made the long, slow trek in covered wagons led by mules. But no matter where they came from, those who journeyed to the nation's capital in May 1968 were there for a common purpose: to bring attention to the plight of America's neediest, and to demand that leaders take action.