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AMD Radeon HD 4830: Affordable Performance And Heavy Competitionby Derek Wilson on 10/23/2008 12:01 AM EST
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- GPUs
56 Comments
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JonnyDough - Friday, October 24, 2008 - linkHalf the time you don't get the money back, or it takes half a year. Not only that, but they always make you jump through hoops. Even if you follow the directions to the T, sometimes they say you didn't.
Furthermore, you have to cut up your box and include the UPC code, which sometimes means you suddenly have no serial number from the proof of purchase for warranty service.
I refuse to purchase a product based on a "rebated price." I always look at the regular price. I was taught to do that over a decade ago in consumer mathematics in H.S. and it took me a bit of life experience to learn the value in that lesson.
So as my title states, I would like to just re-iterate.
Rebates BLOW. As long as people are purchasing products that have a rebate available, the companies will continue to rip us off with them. My advice, skip over anything with a rebate and don't buy it. Reply
strikeback03 - Monday, October 27, 2008 - linkI've probably filed over 100 rebates in the past 10 years, I have failed to receive 2. Only one was due to actual shadiness by the company (MSI), the other was due to a poorly worded rebate form and a customer-service rep who was also not properly informed. I've occasionally had to fight for rebated by re-sending copies of the materials, but have almost always gotten them.
Given the choice, I'd go for the lower purchase price and if one seller is slightly higher but no rebate will choose that. But I don't ignore that rebates exist. Reply
Mr Roboto - Friday, October 24, 2008 - linkThat's why I really like NewEgg.com because they show the price BEFORE the rebate. Anything after that is just icing on the cake as it would seem NewEgg understands that a product with a rebate doesn't mean anything.
Look at TigerDirect.com, almost every product has a little * next to it. TD has some of the worst rebate scams going in all of the internet. Just look at RipOffReport.com to see how badly they treat their customers. Of course I speak from experience. I bought an EVGA 680i and a BFG Tech 8800GTX from the local TD outlet a year and a half ago. When I got home both of the rebates were already expired. Very shady business. Reply
Mr Roboto - Friday, October 24, 2008 - linkAMD has confirmed worked with us to confirm that there were some issues with the BIOS on our sample board. Rather than 2 disabled SIMD units, our review sample 4830 had 3 disabled SIMD units.
So does this mean that if I pick up a new 4830 there is a possibility of hacking the BIOS to enable all of the SIMD units? Well if this is the case than I will definitely be picking up what apparently is a 4850 in 4830 clothing. Reply
Gary Key - Friday, October 24, 2008 - linkI flashed the 4850 BIOS on my retail 4830 card today, no changes to the SIMD units or clock speeds. ;) Reply
poohbear - Friday, October 24, 2008 - linkwhy didnt u show the 4300 in Crossfire? would reall give us a great idea of whether picking 2 of em up is better than the 4850/4870.:0 Reply
Tiredoldfart - Friday, October 24, 2008 - linkVery long time lurker, first time poster.
As always the article is well detailed and plenty juicy on content.
However this growing trend on the articles here at anandtech is truly annoying.
Do we really need 2+ pages tellings that a possible rebate on the competition's card might make it a better deal by a few percentile points?
Rebate talking has no place on tech articles, the people that come here are perfectly capable of recognizing a good deal when they see one.
I came here to read about a part that fits perfectly into the video card niche i want, and end up slightly annoyed that a review of the 4830 ends up with a ton of "how a slightly better deal the 9800 series is if you get a rebate" references. Rebates are marketing doodah, its not a direct reduction in base price, your money is still tied in, dog knows for how many months.
I initially came here to read anand's articles, a good deal years back, and they had a purity and razor edge objectivity to what was being reviewed that i find increasingly lacking anywhere i look these days. I'd really really like to see more reviews that focus more on the merits of the hardware, than on the fogginess of the "final price after xyz marketing tricks".
I hope this doesnt sound too harsh, but this has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time now.
DerekWilson - Friday, October 24, 2008 - linki actually agree with you.
it's frustrating for me though because to fight the battle better nvidia decided to employ a whole lot of massive rebates. i'm still not going to say one piece of hardware is better than another because of a rebate, but with the size of some rebates out there it is hard to ignore them as a factor.
i tried to paint the picture but it's a tough situation.
i agree that rebates are marketing tools and i've said as much in previous articles. but the if both AMD and NVIDIA are going to get into it, it benefits no one but the consumer.
for practical reasons though, i really don't want to compare prices with rebates -- it changes and there are multiple different offers and way too many combinations to make a practical comparison.
honestly, i wish these guys would all just stop offering rebates and lower prices. but they aren't going to do that cause that cuts into their bottom line rather than their marketing budget.
it's just as frustrating on this side of it as it is for you guys to have to read about it ... but we do want to tell the whole story and the rebate battle seems like something of interest. maybe i was wrong.
::shrug:: Reply
Tiredoldfart - Sunday, October 26, 2008 - linkDerek, i'd like to thank you for taking the time to reply.
I like your work quite a bit, and am only replying to better clarify what i mean.
My biggest concern is that the inclusion of the rebate system into the reviews of hardware has really been on the rise, on all the major sites.
It is slowly becoming "set in stone" as something as valid as a base price drop, when its far far shadier.
I understand that, as a reviewer, you cannot overlook something that affects the value of what you are reviewing.
But major exposure on a major tech site like this ends up re-enforcing the rebate system as acceptable and valid.
As far as reviews go, rebates can have the insidious effect of being there for the launch of an item, prompting the side with the larger marketing budget to get off more positive reviews. And once those initial reviews are out, nothing stops the company from changing the rules.
Rebates are by definition something outside of base price, often outside the company itself, efficiently outsourced to other companies. No reputation harm to the big brands, fire and forget. Everyone's had bad experiences with them, they are not good for the consumer in the medium and long run, in my opinion.
If there was a more stern position towards rebates by the consumers and those that inform/represent them, eventually alternatives to rebates would have to be found by the companies.
In the end, i ask a difficult thing, i know this.
For the people responsible to bringing us the news to mediate exposure of topics based on what serves the reader best.
But that has always been the juggling of the media, how to deal with the part that wants to sell without compromising its position towards the part that is willing to buy.
The amount of sway a review at anandtech has over both the consumers and the major tech companies these days is gigantic.
So to sum up what i mean, and use a far too worn out quote to boot..
"With great power there must also come — great responsibility!"
DerekWilson - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkHi guys --
I thought I had tested the 4870 on the 790i board, but it was apparently tested on the intel x48 board instead.
I reran the test because of what you guys were pointing out and I have updated the numbers in the charts. Power draw for the 4870 is higher in idle and load.
I've also been following the issue where AMD samples have 3 SIMDs disabled instead of 2 ... We are talking to AMD about the problem and will update you when we know what's going on.
Derek Wilson Reply
3DoubleD - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkHow would the performance difference look if you overclocked the 4830 to 4850 speeds? It is only a 50 Mhz bump, I'm sure almost all of the 4830s should manage that. If you subtract ~10% performance from the 4850 there isn't a big difference, it seems the extra stream processors/texture units aren't in high demand. Of course when discussing overclocking, you could always overclock the 4850 and I'd imagine the performance gap would remain about equal. The prices are so close to, it is really hard to say. I see a 4850 for $145 after mail in rebate. Reply
jasonnovak - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkNewegg has a lot of 4850's for $135-$140 after rebate, so I suspect the 4830 will be at least $100 or less to be competitive very soon, comparable to the 9800gt. Right now they're at $120, you'd be better off spending the extra $15 to get a 4850, and when you take into account the 4830's all have $8 shipping and some 4850's have free shipping it's a no brainer. Reply
Davelo - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkWhy does the author put so much importance on rebates in this article? I don't like them and don't usually base my buying decision on them. It's seems to me just a way to nullify a customer's warranty. Reply
erikstarcher - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkHow does a rebate nullify a customer's warranty? Reply
Davelo - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - link"How does a rebate nullify a customer's warranty?"
Let'say your video card dies after a month or has massive compatibility issues. You contact the vendor asking to return the product and get your money back. They tell you that you cannot because you not only destroyed the box by cutting out the UPC but you got a rebate payment (not yet in pocket) so they cannot return your money. Maybe you also sent in the receipt because of rebate requirements. No receipt, no return. Reply
JarredWalton - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkThat doesn't nullify your *warranty*; it only prevents you from returning the product for a refund. Big difference. Other than that, you are correct: rebates are a way to make a customer stick with a purchase. They are also a marketing tool to gain sales, and it's amazing how many people forget to actually send in the rebate, thus paying the higher price and buying a product they might not have purchased in the first place. I find them pretty irritating, but that's about as far as I'd go. Reply
Davelo - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkYep. I was thinking of the RMA process. It says on Newegg's faq an item missing a upc cannot receive an RMA. So once you send in for a rebate your return privileges disappear. So what it the rebate requires you to send in within one month but the return policy is two months? Reply
aj28 - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkThen you're either out of luck or you don't get your rebate check. But again, that's an RMA policy, not a warranty... Most manufacturers aren't going to care about the UPC or original box and base their operations off of your product number, serial number, and date of purchase. A receipt may or may not be required, which is why it's always good to print your order (they recommend it for a reason) and make a copy of the packing slip if a rebate requires it.
I may not like mail-in rebates, but they're a good way to get great deals, assuming you go about redeeming them smartly... Reply
7Enigma - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkI find them fantastic. They are a great way to piece meal build a system over the holiday season and save quite a bit of money.
Rebates *only* work as a sales tactic because:
1. People in general are marketing stupid and look at the $99.00* without realizing that's after an $X rebate. The company with the bigger rebate tends to win out due to #2.
2. Many people fail to get the rebate. Causes include laziness, forgetfullness, failure to fill out a form properly, failure to send in the rebate timely, to the rebate companies' issues of "lost mail", improper submission (ie you are told a copy will suffice while they reject all but the real thing). Reply
bgm8800 - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - link...because I can still hear comments asking: why haven't you tested this card with an older (1 - 2 years) system to determine if it would be a worthy option for an upgrade? Reply
mczak - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkWhile the text says 1 simd disabled (which is clearly wrong), it seems AMD sent out review samples with 3 simds disabled instead of 2, hence the review samples being slower than they should be (http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/other/155)">http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/other/155). So did you also test such a card? Reply
7Enigma - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkWhere is the Assasin's Creed data? Where is the broken line graph for The Witcher showing performance at different resolutions? I've commented on the last several articles on your data analysis and frequently dislike the chosen resolution you use for the horizontal bar graph, but at least you had the broken line graph to compare with.
With the vast majority of people using 17-19" LCD's with 1280X1024 (especially in the price range of the card being reviewed), it seems kind of strange to me the higher resolutions for 20-22" LCD's are the ones being selected for the large bar graphs. I know the playability difference between 60fps and 70fps is moot, but the trend it shows is very important for those that do not plan on upgrading to a larger monitor and want to know which is the better card.
For instance the only data we see for The Witcher is at 20-22" resolutions. This single data point shows the AMD card 9% faster than the Nvidia at a just playable (IMO) framerate. As that is likely the average framerate, a 9% difference could be huge when you get into a minimum situation. If I have a 17-19" monitor this data is worthless. Does the trend of AMD being 9% faster hold true at the lower resolution, or does the Nvidia card pull closer?
And while I'm repeating myself from previous articles, I beg of you, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE try to keep the colors of the bar graphs the SAME as in the broken line graphs. It is very frustrating to follow the wrong card from bar graph to line graph because the colors do not match up between them.
Overall good review, there are just these nagging issues that would make the article great. Reply
strikeback03 - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkI only know two people using 1280x1024 LCDs, and both would consider $130 way too much to spend on any computer component. I'd guess there are more people these days using 17-19" widescreens with 1280x800 or 1440x900 resolution than the 1280x1024 screens, as these widescreens are what has been common in packages at B&M stores or a while now. Reply
7Enigma - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkAnd your point is? Those resolutions you listed are right around the 1280X1024 resolution I was referring too. It's not the height/width of the monitor that matters with these cards, it is the overall pixel resolution that can have differences between them. A 1280X1024 uses 1.3 million pixels per screen. A 1440X900 uses almost exactly the same number of total pixels, so you could directly compare the results unless the video card had some weird resizing issues. A 1280X800 uses 1.0 million or about a quarter less so this difference could be even larger between the cards than in my original example. Reply
GlItCh017 - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkFor $130.00 I would not be disappointed with that card. Then you consider it to be somewhat cheaper on newegg maybe as low as $100.00 and you got yourself a bargain, overclock it a little or buy an OC version even, not too shabby. Reply
Butterbean - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkI jumped to "Final Words" and boom - no info on 4830 but right into steering people to an Nvidia card. That's so Anandtech. Reply
mikepers - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkActually what Derek says is it's shop around and get the best price between the two. If there is in fact a $20 to $30 difference then get the 9800gt. If not then get the 4830.
Performance is about the same and right now you can get a 9800gt for $100 after rebate. (for $110 get it delivered with a copy of COD4 included)
This doesn't even consider the power advantage of the 9800gt. Assuming you leave your PC on all the time then that little 14 watt idle difference adds up. At the 20 cents per KwH I pay here in Long Island, NY the 9800gt would save me about $24.50 a year. So personally, I would definitely get the 9800gt unless I could find the 4830 for a decent amount less then the 9800gt. Reply
Spoelie - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkDidn't really notice it the first read through and most of the time I don't concur with bias allegations.
However it seems in this case the paragraphs could have been rearranged to 1-4-5-2-3-6 (no rewording necessary) and the conclusion would have said the same thing, only focusing a bit more obvious on the product at hand than what a great deal the nvidia card is. Reply
DerekWilson - Friday, October 24, 2008 - linkthats actually a good suggestion. done. Reply
Hanners - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - link"Based on the information we know about the GPU, the 4830 is clearly just an RV770 with one SIMD disabled."
Don't you mean two SIMD cores? Reply
nirolf - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkThat low core/mem looks promising. It would be interesting to see if you can get close to 4850 with some tweaking. Reply
Mathos - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkAnd I think I found my next video card upgrade. Have been either waiting for the 4850 to drop a bit more, or something to come out between the 4670 and 4850 to come out, and this one hits exactly where I figured it would. Nipping at the heels of the 9800gtx in a few benchies there, and at the Res that matters for me 1680x1050. This looks like something I can pair with my 3870 toxic edition till I can afford a full on 4850 or 4870. Then if I wanted to I can get rid of the 3870 and run Xfire with the 4830 and 4850. Reply
DXRick - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkThe charts for power consumption are totally different (show a lot more consumption, especially at idle) than the charts done for the 4670 article: http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3405...">http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3405... Reply
JarredWalton - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkFrom the other article: "At idle our entire testbed (Intel G45 + Core 2 Quad Q9450) used only 67W with the Radeon HD 4670." Note that this article uses QX9770 and 790i, among other differences. Reply
DXRick - Friday, October 24, 2008 - linkI had no idea that different chipsets (or mobos) and cpus could result in such a dramatic difference in power consumption. I sure want my computer to consume as little as possible when I am not using it.
Are there any other articles here about this?
Thanks! Reply
strikeback03 - Monday, October 27, 2008 - linkhttp://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.a...">http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.a... Reply
Jovec - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkMore importantly, all your previous reviews show roughly a 40+ idle and load watt difference between the 4850 and 4870, yet this review has it down to 3-4 watts at both. Was there a problem with 4870 power consumption that has now been fixed? Reply
Jovec - Saturday, October 25, 2008 - linkAnd now these 4850 and 4870 numbers show a wider margin again. With a different testbed I'd expect different numbers, but the relative difference on the same testbed should be the same. These numbers are more in line with AT's other 4850/70 power numbers. The original article's numbers need to be explained. Reply
JarredWalton - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkI believe that was one of the issues with previous Catalyst drivers: for some reason the power saving stuff wasn't working on 4870. It's good to see that finally addressed. Reply
Jovec - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkSeems likely for idle numbers, but I'd be curious what power saving can be done under load. Reply
bunga28 - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkGreat article. It's a shame for a great site such as anandtech to make grammatical mistakes and yet it made fun of product manufacturers for their mistakes in the manuals. Case in point: http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.a...">http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.a... It will probably limit the site's potential for others take it seriously, journalistically speaking, of course. Here is what I'm talking about, in one of the sentences in the 2nd page, it was written "AMD could likely have charged a lot more for their hardware at launch..." Should be "AMD could likely have charged a lot more for its hardware at launch..." I don't want to be the grammar police but this has been happening quite a bit on this site, so I want to say something. Now, we all know what you meant when we read the piece. I just think it sounds much better and we think you're probably smarter too...:) Reply
strikeback03 - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkAll that and you didn't notice the "overlocked variants" in the 4th paragraph on the second page? Reply
MamiyaOtaru - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkYou need to educate yourself about formal and notational agreement. AMD is a collective noun, a singular that refers to multiple people. As a rule in the US we go for formal agreement, and refer to AMD with singular verb forms etc, but in the UK it is common to use notational agreement and refer to such a collective noun with plural forms ("the team are ready" for example).
Next you're going to call someone out for spelling "color" with a "u" :( :( Go back under your rock. Reply
AssBall - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkIf you refer to AMD as the sum of its employees, then it makes perfect sense to use their.
You wrote:
"It's a shame for a great site such as anandtech to make grammatical mistakes and yet it made fun of product manufacturers for their mistakes in the manuals."
Nice run-on sentence. Go grammar police somewhere else, please. Reply
chucky2 - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkWith these lower binned parts, is there any word on AGP cards for those looking for a last upgrade?
DirectX 10.1, SM 4.0, LPCM, HDMI...if a cheap solution existed it'd be a nice last upgrade to keep some older systems that are still useful current.
Chuck Reply
Jorgisven - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkActually, the street price of AGP cards has gone up considerably, especially for the late model ones, as no one makes them anymore really. I wouldn't hold your breath on a new one coming out...ever. (This is just my opinion, but the technology is limited and dated, and there's a good reason it was dropped, not having anything to do with collusion with the mobo manufacturers.) Reply
LTG - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkThey should make this in an AGP version.
And Intel should also make a Core i7 adapter for 486DX boards.
This way we can get the most out of our existing hardware. Reply
chucky2 - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkYour absolutely right. I should junk a completely working system that is simply lacking some technology that would be beneficial to have in the next year, which would hold people I know over for another 2-4 years, and instead blow $300 or so on a new rig that for the most part (but not completed) will do the exact same thing as the AGP system they have now does.
Yes, that makes far more sense than buying a $50-$70 modern AGP graphics card that will get them by for the next 2-4 years without hassle.
Chuck Reply
Spoelie - Friday, October 24, 2008 - linkpci-e mobo $50 + fitting cpu $50 + GPU $130 = $230
GPU $130 + bridge chip + low volume markup = $180-200 if you're lucky
ram is more difficult story, you can go even cheaper if you keep any ddr ram and go with a second hand mobo, or take advantage of the low-low ram prices.. Reply
chucky2 - Friday, October 24, 2008 - linkNewEgg Prices Today, AGP Video Cards supporting DirectX 10.x:
3450: $53.25 shipped
3650: $79.00 (includes -$20 for rebate) shipped
3650: $87.00 shipped
3850: $118.25 (includes -10 for rebate) shipped
3850: $138.25 shipped
After the initial price gouging, $180-$200??? I don't think so...not after a couple months.
NewEgg user reviews alone on these DirectX 10.x AGP cards...>600. Clearly, there's still a market - small, but a market none the less - for these cards. If not 4830, then 4350 or 4550...
Chuck Reply
crimson117 - Tuesday, December 30, 2008 - linkIt's all relative... both are Powercolor brand...
Best price AGP 3850: $118.24 shipped after $10 MIR.
Best price PCIe 3850: $68.24 shipped after $10 MIR.
So no it's not $200, but in this low-price example AGP is still a $50 price premium over PCIe.
If current performance is acceptable, and preserving your current system is worth the price premium, then stick with AGP and delay your move to PCIe. But if you'd like to put that cash towards performance instead of legacy preservation, and don't mind spending extra time reinstalling everything, then take the plunge and upgrade your mobo and all your legacy components.
I built a ~$800 computer for a friend in July 2006 right when the C2D came out. Because we went with the newest technology at the time (PCIe, DDR2, socket 775), he's been able to use it for 2.5 years now. He also just easily upgraded the GPU from a 7300LE to a 9800 GT for about $100 (unlike in 2006, he now likes to play PC games), and is considering moving to faster and more DDR2 ram to take advantage of the current low prices. He could also grab a new C2D if he wanted to. He's left with tons of easy upgrade options, none of which require a reinstall, even 2.5 years after it was first built, and chances are it'll last him another year or two if he wants.
For your situation, however, considering that the Core i7 uses a new socket and a new ram type (DDR3), and there'll be no PCIe 3.0 graphics cards until at least 2010, it's a great time to bite the bullet and upgrade all your components at once, even if it means an OS reinstall today. IMHO it's okay to skip one major product cycle, but you're tying your hands too much if you try to preserve legacy components when they're two, three generations old.
(of course, this depends on your other parts - perhaps you have all the latest stuff like DDR2 and socket 775, but just kept AGP for some reason - in that case upgrading everything is slightly less compelling). Reply
DerekWilson - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linki haven't heard anything about AGP availability ... i sort of doubt it, but anything is possible. it would definitely be up to a vendor to add a bridge to the board, as this isn't likely to be something AMD will push themselves. Reply
chrone - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linknice review Derek :) Reply
leexgx - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - linkthe card you got may be an card with only 540 sp (5 out of the 8 working) please run GPU-z on it and check that thay are all working or all of the results will not be correct as the powercore one that 2 other web sites have tested have come into this problem from cards from ATI test cards but not from OEM makers
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2008/10/23/amd-introd...">http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2008/10/23...roduces-... Reply
Spoelie - Friday, October 24, 2008 - linkhttp://www.techpowerup.com/articles/other/155">http://www.techpowerup.com/articles/other/155 is linked in there with a better explanation.
Apparently there's a bios fix.
Any word on what version AT used? Reply
leexgx - Friday, October 24, 2008 - linknote has been added
as there is likey to be an 4810 or something like that can you just add the results to the charts (like all the other sites have) of the fixed bios or an retail card that does not have this problem
not sure what about the comments tho on each page as the card is going to operate an bit faster and is going to move the card up the chart an bit Reply


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By David Lerman
A "wingman policy" requiring Air Force trainees to be accompanied by at least one classmate at all times is among rules the service said it has adopted after an inquiry found a sex-abuse scandal at a Texas base is wider than previously acknowledged.
An investigation has identified 23 alleged offenders and 48 alleged victims of either sexual assault or "an unprofessional relationship" at the base, according to a report released today by the Air Education and Training Command. That compares with 15 possible offenders and 38 victims the Air Force said it was looking into in August.
Five military training instructors at the Lackland Air Force base in San Antonio, Texas, have been convicted of sexual assaults or unprofessional relationships with trainees or students, according to the report. Other instructors remain under investigation or have charges pending.
Lackland, one of the military's busiest training centers, provides basic training to all Air Force recruits. About 500 instructors train about 35,000 cadets annually. About 22 percent of the recruits are women, as are 11 percent of the trainers, according to General Edward Rice, who heads the command.
The wingman policy, requiring trainees to be accompanied whenever they are outside their dormitories,"dramatically decreases the potential for sexual assault or misconduct since these types of activities almost always occur in a one-on-one setting," according to the the command's report.
The policy previously was in place only at night as well as around the clock during the first two weeks of training.
Using such a "buddy system" as a solution puts the burden on victims, Protect Our Defenders, an advocacy group for sexual- assault victims in the military, said in an e-mailed statement.
"Can you imagine if leaders in our civilian society suggested that in order to prevent rape or assault we must never be alone?" said Nancy Parrish, president of the Burlingame, California-based group.
An independent investigation by Major General Margaret Woodward, the Air Force chief of safety, found some instructors "were too immature and inexperienced to effectively exercise the authority and power they were given over trainees" Her report, dated Aug. 22, also was released today.
In some cases, military instructors "relied too heavily on a culture of fear" to motivate trainees, Woodward's report found. Poor leadership also created "a culture where misconduct appeared to be tolerated" and where trainees were fearful of reporting sexual abuse.
The Air Education and Training Command said it will increase and strengthen leadership positions at Lackland and that an expanded leadership orientation course "will place additional emphasis on the potential for abuse of power, sexual assault, unprofessional relationships, and maltreatment or maltraining."
Sexual abuse has plagued the military for decades even after multiple attempts to reduce attacks.
While the Pentagon said 3,192 sexual assaults were reported in the military last year -- from unwanted sexual touching to rape -- many victims fail to report abuse.
The Defense Department has estimated the actual number of assaults is about 19,000 a year, based on anonymous surveys of the active-duty force in 2010, according to Pentagon spokeswoman Cynthia Smith.
An anonymous survey of Air Force personnel in 2010 found 19 percent of all female airmen and 2 percent of male airmen reported being victims of sexual assault at some time in their military careers.
Women made up about 13.6 percent of the active-duty military force last year, according to the Defense Department.
The Air Force removed the top commander of basic training at Lackland, Colonel Glenn Palmer, in August in the wake of the scandal.
One military instructor, Staff Sergeant Luis Walker, was sentenced in July to 20 years in prison for crimes including rape, adultery, obstruction of justice and aggravated sexual assault involving 10 trainees.
In conducting the investigation, the Air Force studied the option of adopting segregated training, with female recruits trained only by female instructors.
That approach is used by the Marine Corps, which says it offers female recruits strong female mentors. All other military services use integrated training.
Woodward recommended against separate training, though she said the number of female instructors should be increased to 25 percent of the force.
Rice also said in his report that integrated training should be preserved.
"I support this finding, which is consistent with the principle of training the way we fight together as Airmen," he said.
(To read original article, visit this Bloomberg Business Week link [1])
[1] http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-11-14/wingman-rule-to-curb-sex-abuse-is-adopted-by-air-force
[2] http://www.nsvrc.org/news/news-field


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text:
NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTS 512 & GeForce 8800 GT 256MB: Playing with Memory and G92by Anand Lal Shimpi on 12/11/2007 12:00 AM EST
- Posted in
- GPUs
56 Comments
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sliblue - Friday, December 14, 2007 - linkIm begining to wonder --- I built a new machine based on the qx9650, asus p5e3 deluxe, and 1 8800 gtx (pci 16 on pci 2.0) 4 gig a ram and Vista 64. Loaded up crysis and told it to auto detect my settings and low and behold it spit out the recomendation of very high for everything. I launched the game and couldnt believe how smooth it was with one card on Very High. I am not overclocking anything and can see a huge difference between the qx9650 and the amd blackbox 6400 x2 Reply
DLeRium - Friday, December 14, 2007 - linkThe 8800GT review was SOLID, but based on the comparisons you made with the 8800GT, don't you think you should include it here? You did 8800GT vs GTX in the last article, so don't you think you should do 8800GTS vs. GT vs. GTX? But instead you jump to Ultra. I guess it's great that we can go BACK to the 8800GT article and then kinda interpolate how the GTS will do against the GTX, and that's why I hate about reviews that don't include more info for our benefit.
I don't see why a lot of these graphs can't be combined together?
I think another issue for me is why the ATI cards now use so little power? In the ATI review, you showed the 3870 gobbling more power than the 8800GT under load, but now it's a clear winner in power consumption. What's the deal here? Reply
DLeRium - Friday, December 14, 2007 - linkI think my other gripe with this review is that this is a NEW revision of the GTS. Don't you think it should be wise to compare both the old GTSes against this new revision? That's one thing I really wanted to see in the GT review too. How do the 320/640 GTSes stack up against the GT. What about in this review? Reply
afrost - Thursday, December 13, 2007 - linkExcept that to get a decent cooler on the 8800GT you have to spend another $40 at least for an aftermarket cooler.
I personally prefer the GTS becuase I can just stick it straight in to my box without ripping the stock cooler off, and it's a little bit faster on top of it. I also didn't have Crysis and mine comes with it in the box.....so overall a good buy in my particular situation. Reply
nubie - Thursday, December 13, 2007 - linkI am sorry you feel that way, my EVGA 256-P3-N791-AR 8800gt 256 comes with the re-designed heatsink and fan and all I had to do was pull a slider to get 710 1720 1000 clocks, and it didn't overheat.
Most of the newer GT's (possibly all the 256mb ones) are coming with a better cooling solution. As for the GTS, yes, great, if you have 2 slots for cooling, not everyone does. Oh, yeah, and a spare $100-150 for only 16 more stream processors?? My GT has the same memory bandwidth (64GB/s) when I pull the slider to 1Ghz(2G DDR).
In a perfect world, of course I choose the absolute best, but on a budget an 8800gt is just fine. Reply
ashegam - Thursday, December 13, 2007 - linkDid I miss this in the article or in the comments or has no one mentioned that this new gen card won't be supporting directX 10.1?
and that doesn't bother anyone interested in purchasing this card?
should it not be a concern for a potential buyer? Reply
Distant - Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - linkI'll apologize if they acknowledge their mistake and include 8xAA in their tests from now on, I think cards are powerful to the point now were it should be happening in the mid/high range cards anyway.
Why's this matter? most of those frame rates aren't playable? Well not quite as you saw Oblvion and Prey were, furthermore that site in particular only really tested the very newest games.
Don't you play any older games? How about any of Valves games? TF2 maybe? I take it you do and I would think most people would want to know their 8800GT is going to get obliterated when they try higher then 4xAA
And what about the implications for SLI/Crossfire? Surely if you have a cross/sli setup your going to want to run 8 and in some cases even 16xAA on games not named Crysis. Reply
Distant - Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - linkIn case you guys are wondering what Nvidia payed anandtech not to show you take a look at
You can clearly see in the 8 tests that they did do 8xAA on
Clive Barkers Jericho
Company of heroes DX9 and 10
Lost Planet
In every single one of those with the exception of FEAR and Company of heroes in DX9 mode the 8800GT's framerates literally drop like a freaking rock, in some cases it's performance getting cut in more then half while the 3870's really takes much of hits at all and because of this the 3870 overtakes the 8800GT at this level of AA.
Now call me crazy, but I think most of us don't have a 24+ inch monitor and if you do you really need two cards anyway, my point is looking at the frame rates in most games your going to be wanting to game at 8xAA and if you just read this article you wouldn't have known that the 8800GT appears to be garbage at high levels of AA
Zak - Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - linkWhat exactly are we supposed to be looking at? Besides the fact that it's in German, I see no graphs, no tables. And actually a lot gamers play at resolutions higher than 1280x1024 so 8xAA is mostly unrealistic for any game on any card today. I'm happy when I can get playable framerates with 4X or even 2x on 8800GTX OC in modern games. Accusing Anandtech of being paid by Nvidia (not payed by the way) is baseless and I think out of order. I'd apologize if I were you...
Z. Reply
nubie - Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - linkI bought the EVGA 8800GT 256MB from Newegg on Sunday for $215, of course they are long gone by now.
This card has 1800mhz RAM, where does that fall in the charts? This means it has identical memory bandwidth to the GT 512's
I hope that the prices fall and the EVGA Step-Up program will let me get something nice within the 90-days, after this madness is over.
Either way my monitor is only 1280x1024, and I am not married to AA, so this seems the best choice, for now.
I am still waiting for some good drivers, I barely beat my 3Dmark01 score(+200) against my old 7900GS 650mhz, that is pretty sad, I don't think that these drivers are properly functional yet.
Stereoscopic 3D gaming is out the window too, I had a spontaneous reboot already, whether this is the fault of the GT, all 8 series cards, dual-core processor, non-existent stereo drivers or some wacky combination, I don't know.
When you guys get the EVGA 1800mhz card to bench, let us know asap, they don't claim it as a "clocked" card on the line-up, or in the RAM.
I got 43/19/115 framerate in World In Conflict Very High settings, 1280x1024 on an x2 4600/2GB DDR2 800/ DFI Infinity II/M2, not bad for the money.
I am still curious about the dual-core CPU effect, I can only hit 2.6 on this proc (65w Windsor), and I don't run it there. I am getting a single-core Windsor soon and hope to have it clocked to 3ghz like my 939 was, that seemed much faster in game than the x2 4600 ever was (obviously with no background apps.) Reply
AnnonymousCoward - Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - linkSo the GTS 512 vs the Ultra. The GTS does 26/47 watts less. What's the voltage, 1.5V? So the Ultra draws 17/31 amps more? That's a lotta current. Reply
TheRealMrGrey - Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - linkThe authors of this review failed to comment on the fact that the 8800 GT 512MB is still under stocked and out of stock just about everywhere! Yeah, it's a really great card, but no one can purchase it! So what's the point? Just to make all those people who already have one feel good? Blah!
Mgz - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkso you compare an overclock version of the 8800 GT 256 MB vs the default NO OC HD 3850 and HD 3870 ? at least to make it fair you could compare to an OC version of HD 3850/3870 or compare the non-XXX version to the default clock 3800.
=( Reply
just4U - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkI didn't realize they were comparing stock to overclocked. If they were then it's the only oversight in the review. Well done Anand, Finally a review of the 8800GT 256Meg I don't take with half a pound of salt...
... Maybe just a dash tho! ;) Reply
LRAD - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkMy LCD is 1440 x 900 and it is dissapointing to see so much concern for the high resolutions only. For instance, would a 256 meg solution be fine in the near future for that res? The article beats us over the head with the fact that 256 megs is not enough, but at a lower resolution, might it be? Reply
redly1 - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkThanks for the bar charts at the end. That somehow summed it up for me. Glad to see the power consumption comparison in there too. Reply
Spoelie - Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - linkto be honest i really really like the line graphs more, don't really see what's more clear with the bar graphs
guess it's a never ending debate Reply
Zak - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkI want a high end $500-600 monster that's at least twice as fast as my current 8800GTX that can play Crysis on 24" screen with reasonable framerates:( I'm thinking about getting another GTX and go SLI but I hear some games, Crysis in particular, don't gain much from SLI. And, of course, the day I shell out $500 on another 8800GTX Nvidia will release 9800GTX or something:( Frustrating....
Zak Reply
Bal - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkI think every FPS bar chart should have a FPS/$ overlay. You could incorporate it on all your bar charts and allows users to really compare "bang for buck" vs performance for games they are interested in without adding more graphs.. Reply
Bal - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkdang no edit...that was supposed to be an original post... Reply
Lennie - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkGotcha!! AT
J/K :b
Test System got DDR2 mentioned as memory but the mobo is P5E3.
Over and out. Reply
Lennie - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkMan tat was quick. Thank ya. Reply
Cygnis - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkI've been reading these "benchmarks" for a while now. and the hardware is always a Intel w/ Nvidia chipsets etc.
It's a little biased, in my opinion, to run an ATI card in those chipsets.
It would only be fair, and more realisitic to run Both Nvidia cards and ATI cards in Two different Boxes, cross-manufacturer, to get a true idea.
After all, you are trying to be fair in the representation of the data, no?
strikeback03 - Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - linkThe chipset is an Intel X38. As this can run Crossfire, I'd imagine it is reasonably friendly to AMD graphics cards. Reply
pilotofdoom - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkWhat happens when the 3850 512MB is compared to the 8800gt 256MB? Right now the 3850 512MB retails around $200, so about $20 more expensive than the 256MB version, but still $15 cheaper than the 8800GT 256MB card, assuming you find the cards in stock. Reply
Viditor - Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - link
"Right now the 3850 512MB retails around $200"
Actually, the 3850 is retailing for $169 at NewEgg... Reply
kilkennycat - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkThe default fan speed on the 8800GT (512) is 29% and the speed-profile is a joke. The fan speed does not move AT ALL until the GPU reaches ~ 94 degrees C!! This is not long-term-reliability funny at all. Is TSMCs commercial silicon-process rated for military-grade applications ( >70 degrees C )? I don't think so. And the only control the user has on fan-speed without a risky video BIOS sabotage is to use the fixed-fan settings courtesy of nTune. However, these settings are not saved during a system re-boot.
So since the physical design of the ventilation on the 8800GTS 512 has changed from that of the 8800GT, have nVidia taken any steps to change from the ridiculous fan-speed profile of the 8800GT (512) ?? Or given the user any ability to manually control the speed profile and SAVE THE SETTINGS? Reply
AnnonymousCoward - Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - linkNo kidding! The last time I tried nTune it would also go back after every reboot. To OC I started making EXPERTOOL start on startup and then I close it manually to free the memory, and the OC stays. I don't know if Riva lets you do that. Reply
jay401 - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkmost owners are using RivaTuner to allow the fan speed to be dynamically adjusted by the temperature or to simply set a higher default, fixed fanspeed. Reply
kilkennycat - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkDoes the fan-adjust feature of RivaTuner work properly on WinXP with the latest nV drivers 169.09beta and above (req'd for Crysis etc..)?? If so, please specify the version of Rivatuner and point me in the right direction to manipulate the fan settings. Reply
chizow - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkThis is probably the first time I've felt an AT review wasn't worth reading and definitely the first time I've said a review done by Anand wasn't worth reading. The conclusion is correct, but for very different reasons. There is no 10-15% advantage (as many would consider that significant enough a reason to pay $50 more), there is NO advantage of getting a G92 GTS over a G92 GT.
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce...">Firing Squad Review
When looking over this review, pay special attention to:
Leadtek GeForce 8800 GT Extreme (680MHz core/1.0GHz memory)
XFX GeForce 8800 GTS 512MB XXX (678MHz core/986MHz memory)
Almost no difference at all in performance....... Reply
Acragas - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkDid you read all the way to the end of the Firing Squad review? Because at the end, they seem to leave no doubt that the 8800GTS 512 is certainly the superior card. I <3 EVGA's step up program.
They conclude:
Given the GeForce 8800 GTS 512MB's outstanding performance though, this higher price tag is definitely justified. The 8800 GTS 512MB cards blazed through all of our benchmarks, with performance generally falling anywhere between the GeForce 8800 GT and the GeForce 8800 GTX, while a card that's been overclocked can put up numbers that are higher than the GTX in some cases.
If you've got $400 to spend on a graphics upgrade this Christmas, the GeForce 8800 GTS 512MB is without a doubt the card we recommend. In fact, we wouldn't be surprised if the GeForce 8800 GTS 512MB ends up stealing sales away from the GeForce 8800 GTX. Reply
chizow - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkWhy would I need to read their conclusion when their data allows you to come to your own? I'm sure they were blinded by the stark contrast in their pretty graphs without realizing they showed there was virtually no difference in performance between the parts at the same clock speed.
Granted, the dual-slot cooler would allow you to run at higher clock speeds, but for a $50-100 difference in price is a better cooler and 16SP and 8 tmu/tau that yield 0-2% difference in performance worth it? Reply
zazzn - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linki foolishly also bought a 8800gts like 4 months ago and now the GTs are out stomping them and for cheaper. i feel like a fool and XFX doesnt offer a step up program next time i buy its a evga for sure...
I m so sour right now about the situation consdering i needed a new psu from 450 to 600 which also cost me 150 and most likely wouldnt have needed it if i bought the gt now since it requires less power.
how crap is that
can zou post the results of a old 88vs a new 88gts Reply
Kelly - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkIsn't the power consumption of 3870 vs 8800GT512 a bit odd compared to previous findings?
Here are the numbers I am wondering about
8800GT: 146/269 (difference:123)
3870: 122/232 (difference:110)
Compare this to
8800GT: 165/209 (difference:44)
3870: 125/214 (difference:89)
Or am I not doing the comparison correctly?
Thanks for a nice review as always! Reply
Spoelie - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkThe original review results were a bit strange, the gap between the 3850/3870 was way too great for a simple clock bump between them, also DDR4 should consume less power than DDR3. So these values seem more right, the gap between idle and load is bigger because they used a quad core cpu in this article and a dual core in the previous one. Reply
Khato - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkWell, the load results from this article in comparison to the previous bring light to a disturbing fact. If the definition of 'load' is a game and we're never CPU limited, then the performance of the graphics card is going to scale the CPU power usage accordingly, giving the impression that faster cards draw far more power than they actually do. On the flipside, if we're CPU limited (which might have been the case in the previous review) then CPU power is about constant, and the high end cards are idling more often, giving the impression that they're more efficient than they really are.
It'd be interesting to see the % CPU utilization for each card. Reply
trajan - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkI promise I'm not paid to say this, but I feel like the new GTS plus EVGA's step up program just saved me a load of cash. I (foolishly?) bought a superclocked EVGA 8800GTS 640mb card almost 3 months ago, right before the 8800GT came out. Yeah, bad timing. But when I checked online I still have 18 days left on my step-up.
So, very ironically, I am upgrading from a $395 dollar card to a $360 card, paying $10 in shipping both ways. I don't get a refund, so I essentially will paid $420 for a $360 part, but what a huge upside -- I got a great card 3 months ago and am now getting a great upgrade almost free.
I say "finally" in the subject because switching from the superclocked 8800GTS 640 to a 8800 GT just didn't seem worth it, especially given how much money I'd be losing .. I kept hoping something better would come around even if it cost more, since I can upgrade to any sub-$400 card just by paying shipping.. Reply
Viditor - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkMy question is this...
If an 8800 GT 512 is $300-$350, and 2 x HD3850s are a total of $358, how do they compare in performance (in other words, do the Xfired 3850s outperform the 8800GT 512, and if so by how much)? Reply
chizow - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkThat's basically what it comes down to with the G92 vs. G80. Another big difference between the G80s and G92s that the review failed to mention is the 24 vs. 16 ROP advantage G80 maintains over G92; a lead which the increased clock speeds can't make up for.
Anyways, pretty clear the G92 does better in shader intensive games (newer ones) with its massive shader ops/sec advantage over the G80, but falls short when you enable AA or high resolutions where fillrate becomes more important.
In the end I think the result is better for gamers but it doesn't look like there's a definitive winner this time around. Its basically trading performance at various settings/games but for the end-user, the benefit is that you can get great performance at a much better price by giving up the ultra high-end settings (1920+ w/AA), which at this point are borderline playable now anyways. Reply
wordsworm - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkI recall someone mentioning that 32 bit OS can only handle 4GB of memory. This can be allocated to the video card memory and motherboard memory. Seems to me that since AT is running 4GB of memory on the MB and 256, 512, and 768MB on the VC, I can't help but think this would somehow skewer the results. Am I missing something? Reply
Le Québécois - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkHow about some tests to see how well those cards do in MultiGPU Scaling? The 8800GT 512 did pretty good but was somewhat limited by memory at higher resolution. Since the 8800GTS 512 has the same amount of memory, could we expect the same king of scaling? What about the 8800GT 256? Reply
EateryOfPiza - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkseconded! Reply
Le Québécois - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkOn page 3 many of the graphs show 8800 GTX Ultra in the legend.
At the bottom of page 4 "The 8800 GTS Ultra looks to be an average of 10% faster than the 8800 GT, is it worth the $50+ premium it'll command? Not really, the 512MB 8800 GT is still the sweet spot. Moving on..."
Should be The 8800 GTS 512. Reply
sabrewulf - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkI'm sure you have your reasons, and I know the results would be largely similar, but I would really have preferred to see GTS512 vs GTX, as I'm sure there are far more GTX owners than Ultra owners (relatively speaking) Reply
Super Nade - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkGuys, how about posting a few scores with the cards overclocked? After all that is why we buy these cards, right ; to extract every ounce of performance? :)
Best wishes,
Super Nade,
OCForums Reply
shabby - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkFrom the original $200-249 the 8800gt shot up to almost $300, while the gts will be reaching for the $400 mark with the overclocked models, even the 256meg gt is priced over $200.
Why are all these cards so far off from the msrp? It was never like this before with the gtx/ultra cards. Reply
homerdog - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkThe cheapest model on Newegg right now is a stock eVGA one for $359.99, which is just outside the upper end of the MSRP. That is still a good price when viewed from the "it's almost as fast as an Ultra and faster than a GTX" perspective. Reply
jay401 - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkActually Anandtech's being revisionist with their pricing history.
The original 8800GT 512MB article last month stated MSRP was $200-250. That was, to paraphrase, based on the logical inference of the article, "closer to $200 for reference clocked 512MB models and closer to $250 for high-end models".
The 256MB model wasn't even in the shipping channels at that time and had no bearing on the pricing mentioned in the article, which was very specifically regarding the 512MB model, as that was what the review was about - the 8800GT 512MB.
And in the first two weeks we saw them priced as low as $209 for reference models and $229 for overclocked models, further supporting the reality of that MSRP price range.
The only reason they're as expensive as you see them today is limited supply & high demand.
But now Anandtech wants to satisfy NVidia and help them justify maintaining the current pricing even after supply exceeds demand, which would be absurd.
Just thought you should know the truth.
And just so you don't think I'm some biased ATI/AMD owner, I picked up my 8800GT for $250 and am very happy with it. But I feel sorry for folks paying $300 (or more!) for a $200-250 card. Reply
tshen83 - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkactually, you don't understand the fundamentals of supply and demand. The 8800GT 512MB is selling at 30 dollars over MSRP because it is just that good and worth that much. Nvidia priced it too low. The Radeon HD3850 is priced at 179 and not selling over MSRP because there is less demand due to poorer performance, especially with AA+AF.
Griswold - Thursday, December 13, 2007 - linkAlso (partly) wrong. Its a good price/performance part and its short in supply. That is why its priced higher. And I'm willing to bet the supply shortage is artificial. Look at how the availability of the GTS 512 is - seems to be much better than that of the GT. Its no surprise. Nvidias margins with the GT must be abyssmal compared to that of higher priced units (thats a given, but they also rendered almost their complete lineup obsolete for several weeks prior to the launch of the GTS 512), but they needed that horse to compete with the 3850/3870 price point.
And you really need to stop talking out of your ass about the 3850. Its selling well and its selling at MSRP because supply is decent (and you lecture him about fundamentals... ). I think there was a the register claim of 150k units in 3 weeks. Well, thats three times the amount of the available 8800GT units in the same timeframe. Speaks for itself.
neogodless - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkWhew... just bought an 8800GT and would like to feel like it was a good buy for a *little while*! Hope it has enough supply to help drive prices down in general though... Reply
R3MF - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkWhere are the G92 GTS cards with memory over 2.0GHz?
Does this preage the entrance of a G92 GTX with memory at 2.4GHz and a higher core clock?
It isn't rocket science to put some decent speed memory on a midrange card. Witness the 3870 with 2.35GHz memory, so why haven't any of the so called "OC" versions of the G92 GTS got overclocked memory?
At the same time we all want a card that can play Crysis at 1920x1200 at High details and still get around 30FPS. The GTS can get ~30FPS at Medium details........... whoopy-do!
So, we know its possible to economically provide more bandwidth and we know its necessary, but nobody has done so including the OC'ed versions.
Is this because there is a G92 GTX product around the corner?
Yes i know there is rumoured to be a G92 GX2 dual-card sometime in january, but how about a non-cack single card version.
A card with:
720MHz core clock
2000MHz shaders
2400MHz memory
1GB or memory
would absolutely rock, so why haven't we got one? Reply
kilkennycat - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkMemory tweaking of the current series is a tiny marginal benefit with a huge increase in power-dissipation. The G92 represents the last gasp of the current G8x/G9x architecture. The shrink was absolutely essential to nVidia's GPU business to get away from the huge, power-hungry and low-yield G80 GPU.
The true high-end replacement family for the 8xxx-series is coming around Q2 of 2008. It has been in design for at least the past year and is NOT just a tweak of the G8x/G9x architecture. If you really HAVE TO upgrade your system right now, just get a SINGLE 8800GT 512. At this point in time, do not invest in SLI. Keep you hands in your pockets and wait for the next gen. A single copy of the high-end version of the next-gen GPU family from nVidia is likely to have more GPU horsepower than dual 8800GTX. Reply
Griswold - Thursday, December 13, 2007 - link"The true high-end replacement family for the 8xxx-series is coming around Q2 of 2008. It has been in design for at least the past year and is NOT just a tweak of the G8x/G9x architecture."
Its going to be an evolved (note: thats a fair bit more than just tweaked) G80/G92. You dont design a completely new architecture in a year. Remember what nvidia claimed at launch of the G80? Its been in the works for several years. They will squeeze every bit of revenue out of this architecture before they launch their true next generation architecture (on which at least one team must have been working since the launch of G80). Reply
retrospooty - Tuesday, December 11, 2007 - linkA card with:
720MHz core clock
2000MHz shaders
2400MHz memory
1GB or memory
would absolutely rock, so why haven't we got one?
Ummm.... Wait until the high end card is released in january and then see what the specs are. Its suppsed to be a dual GPU version like the 7950GTX was. So think 2 8000GT SLI performance. The memory wont likely be 2400mhz, but it will be dual channel for 512mbit bandwidth. Reply


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List of best Paediatric Surgeon Doctors from trusted hospitals in South City 1 Block C, Gurgaon. Get detailed info on educational qualification, experience and other credentials of Paediatric Surgeon Doctors in South City 1 Block C, Gurgaon. Check OPD schedule and book appointment online with best Paediatric Surgeon from top hospitals in South City 1 Block C, Gurgaon. Call 8010- 994- 994 to talk to in-house Credihealth experts for FREE medical assistance to choose the right Paediatric Surgeon, get options for Second Opinion or other other medical assistance.
A paediatric surgeon is a doctor who is qualified to manually perform surgeries to treat a disease, a deformity or an injury of an infant to that of a growing child. Paediatric surgeons specialize in performing surgery for abnormalities, repair, remove tumors, fix injuries and endoscopic procedures and more.


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PPD Star Ratings
PPD Star Ratings
PSA members who have received acceptances in PSA-recognized Pictorial Print Exhibitions are eligible to apply for PPD Star Ratings. For additional information or help to apply for PPD Star Ratings, please email the Director.
Applicants must be a member of PSA; however, some acceptances received prior to membership are eligible for the acceptance requirements. Please contact the Director for information regarding the format of a PPD Star Rating application.
Basic requirements are:
1 STAR - at least 18 acceptances with at least 6 titles.
2 STARS - at least 36 acceptances with at least 12 titles.
3 STARS - at least 72 acceptances with at least 24 titles.
4 STARS - at least 144 acceptances with at least 48 titles.
5 STARS - at least 288 acceptances with at least 96 titles.
Galaxy/Diamond Ratings
Acceptances in a division after a 5-star rating can be applied toward the more advanced, Galaxy and Diamond Ratings. There are 10 levels of Galaxy and 10 of Diamond Ratings. See the complete chart of requirements for each level.
Beginning January 1, 2016, the fee for processing each Star Rating, Galaxy Award, or Diamond Award is $12.00. This policy is not retroactive; that is, fees already submitted with Star Ratings, Galaxy Award, or Diamond Award applications will not be changed. Cash or checks drawn on US banks are acceptable. Credit cards can no longer be used, but PayPal is now available. If you want to use PayPal, send the application without payment and say you want to use PayPal. When the application has been approved, we will tell you how to pay by PayPal. (If you are paying by cash or check, it's ok to send it with your application.)
There is no fee for processing a conversion.


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Printable Calendar July 2016 Pdf
July 8, 2016 | Monthly Calendar | No Comments|
Check out the best collection of Printable Calendar July 2016 Pdf with Blank Templates and Excel Sheets in Full Size. People want to see December Month Holidays list in Calendar so that we are sharing Free Printable Calendar in PDF file, Document, Word, Sheets, Portrait and Landscape Page formats which are available for various countries like India, NZ, Australia, US, UK, Canada, South Africa and Ireland for free of cost.
Printable Calendar July 2016 Pdf
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Animals are not oursto eat, wear, experiment on, use for entertainment, or abuse in any other way.
Almost all of us grew up eating meat, wearing leather, and going to circuses and zoos. We never considered the impact of these actions on the animals involved. For whatever reason, you are now asking the question: Why should animals have rights? Read more.
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Washington, District Of Columbia 20005
United States
|Areas of Practice
|1) Litigation
|Law School
|Harvard Law School
|Harvard College (B.A., cum laude, 2000)
|Most recent firm
|Williams & Connolly LLP
|Relevant Jobs
Civil Litigation Associate
Carr Maloney P.C. is seeking a civil litigation associate to join our busy firm. Interested candidates should have 2 – 3 years of private law firm experience in deposition, discovery and motions pra...
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Litigation Associate
Established DC firm seeks Attorney in Washington DC, to provide legal services & advice in the practice areas of real estate; personal injury; family law; immigration, labor; contract disputes and A...
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Litigation Special Counsel/Counsel
Litigation Special Counsel/Counsel The candidate will handle drafting of motions, briefs, and other pleadings, case management, strategic litigation support, and discovery and motions practice. Sho...
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|+ View more jobs
A. Harrison Barnes is a well-known attorney throughout the United States. As a member of the Malibu community, Harrison is committed to serving the needs of Malibu residents and businesses in legal matters.
Benjamin P. Smith is a partner in Morgan Lewis's Litigation Practice. He is a trial lawyer with a particular focus on high-stakes disputes in the biotechnology, medical device, and internet industries.


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binders: he harris
binders: lighthouse binders
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binders: scott beginner
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cars & parts historical books
cars & parts id guides
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click n do: bridal crafts
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click n do: pack-o-fun
click n do: painting
click n do: paper made easy
coin albums: certified coin
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coin albums: lighthouse certified coin
coin albums: other
coin albums: whitman
coin cleaner
coin folders: whitman
coin holders: 2x2 quadrum intercepts
coin holders: 2x2 quadrum system
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coin holders: coin world premier
coin holders: coin world sets
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coin holders: snap-tight
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currency storage: accessories
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reference books: ancient coins
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reference books: complete coin guides
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phone: view phone6172353210
website: http://www.linx-usa.com
The LINX Enrichment Club features classes for all ages featuring the award winning LINX Dance Studio, LINX Theater and Voice Programming and many more fun-based classes for children. LINX prides itself on innovative and high tech programming.
summer programs
phone: view phone617-277-4593
website: http://www.bmsmusic.org
Brookline Music School seeks to awaken and nurture musical interest, appreciation, and artistic excellence in a friendly and stimulating atmosphere. Music and dance instruction is offered year-round. Offerings are geared toward babies to seniors.
summer programs
phone: view phone617-369-3295
website: www.mfa.org/summerkids
Register your young artist for weekly summer art classes at the MFA, starting June 18 through August 20 (last class August 24). Each week's session focuses on a fun theme. Kids visit the MFA's galleries, explore new places and cultures, and then dr
summer programs
phone: view phone617-527-4553
website: www.allnewtonmusicschool.com
For over 25 years, ANMS has offered an innovative and fun summer program for young musicians! Your child will spend the summer building a musical foundation, learning musical theater skills, producing artwork, and performing!
phone: view phone617-442-7444
website: http://www.diabloglassschool.com
Glassblowing for everyone at any time! Great programs and wonderful camp!
phone: view phone781-237-1511
website: http://www.jamminwithyou.com
JWY! is a multi-faceted music and drama education provider that offers original programming for children 6 months to 10 years old. In addition to classes, JWY! hosts birthday parties, concerts and offers private, in home music lessons.
phone: view phone781-274-9729
website: http://www.keys-for-kids.com
With dynamic programs and outstanding teachers for every age, Keys for Kids Music School maintains the highest standards of excellence in a warm and supportive environment that focuses on the joy of music.
phone: view phone7818831913
website: http://
Number manipulation classes with abacus via using Soroban (advanced user) to beginners (9 bead method).
phone: view phone781 558 8207
website: http://www.facebook.com/schenabacus
Enrichment program based on Soroban-Abacus manipulation to enhance individual's arithmetic capability.
All That Jazz Dance Studio
phone: view phone617-641-0784
website: www.allthatjazznewton.com
The philosophy of All That Jazz Dance Studio is for well-rounded children of all ages and abilities to learn how to dance well while gaining confidence and poise in a fun environment. Classes 7 days/week for boys & girls, ages 2 & up. Parties, too!
phone: view phone9784566887
website: The Science Works!
Through The Science Works, Steve Lechner provides STEM Based Science Enrichment Programs for children of all ages. Services include Hands-On Workshops, Interactive Science Performances, Early Childhood Enrichment, and Educator Inservice Programs.
phone: view phone617-572-3727
website: http://www.urbanitydance.org/youth/
The Urbanity Dance School in Boston's South End offers classes for ages 6 months through adult with all levels welcomed! Dance offerings include contemporary, hip hop, tap, acro, and improvisation classes in addition to wellness programs.
phone: view phone617-479-5444
website: http://www.gymboreeclasses.com
At Gymboree Play & Music, you and your child will build creativity, confidence and lifelong friendships. Our programs are specially designed to help young children learn and develop as they play, while helping you learn about your child's development
phone: view phoneSee Website
website: http://www.goldfishswimschool.com
Goldfish Swim School offers swim lessons for children ages 4 months and up, as well as family swim times, a recreational swim team and birthday parties. Now open in Needham with new locations planned soon in Westford, Braintree and Burlington!
phone: view phone3392030314
website: http://www.newtoncommunityfarm.org
Newton Community Farm (NCF) is a thriving and bountiful operational farm with sustainable agriculture at the core of our work. Engage your senses, explore, and enjoy the beauty and benefits of nature through our full range of educational programs.