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Samsung ATIV Tab Review: Qualcomm's First Windows RT Tabletby Anand Lal Shimpi on 1/3/2013 6:00 AM EST
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- Samsung
- Qualcomm
- Mobile
- Tablets
- Windows RT
42 Comments
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snoozemode - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkMicrosoft should really focus on merging WRT and WP8, and that rather quickly. It's a strange idea to try have one OS for every device type when so much converging is going on in the hardware world. As it stands today it seems Microsoft is missing out on the big 5"+ 1080p wave going on in the Android world because of no support for that resolution and also missing out on the now popular 7" tablet format because WRT just doesn't seem made for that experience. Reply
tipoo - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkI agree, it's kind of odd. Android runs on both phones and tablets of all sizes, iOS runs on iPhones and two tablet sizes, why does Microsoft feel the need to have a completely separate phone OS and tablet OS? Sure, Windows Phone 8 moved to the newer Windows kernel and got a lot of the same APIs and such as regular Windows, but it's still a distinct OS from RT.
One OS for both would increase the potential market for developers as well as make developing easier. Reply
tipoo - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkBesides that, I also believe that on tablets Windows x86 will become dominant over RT. Reply
Silent_Rage - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkI wouldn't be too sure of that: http://hal2020.com/2013/01/02/there-is-no-arm-in-w... Reply
ninjacut - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkThe big advantage of RT over x86 is the lack of legacy application baggage that could bog down the experience plus the security.
But to your point, x86 will be preferred choice if legacy applications and in general full compatibility is required. Reply
B3an - Saturday, January 05, 2013 - linkYou both forget that MS are the only company to have one single OS thats runs on both tablets and PC's. Apple, Linux or Google don't have this.
Windows Phone is by far the best phone UI out there in my opinion partly because it's specifically made for smaller phones. The Win 8/RT UI wont scale down well for phones with small screens.
But the Windows Blue update, released later this year, is meant to have support for smaller 7" tablets. It's inevitable that MS will support these at some point anyway. You have to remember they've been busy with the massive task of getting Windows to work well on tablets, porting Windows to ARM, and porting WP to the Windows 8 kernel. They just haven't had time for smaller tablet support yet.
Being as WP and WIn 8/RT all have the same kernel and most of the same API's, including the same DirectX, then it's already pretty easy for most dev's to support all platforms. Things will be even more toughly integrated across platforms in future updates. Reply
virtualx - Saturday, August 31, 2013 - linkUmmm... Canonical have been making Ubuntu (GNU/Linux) for smartphones and tablets for quite some time now. And Debian has been available for ARM since ARM began existing. Microsoft has never been the first or only company to do anything.... Reply
Kevin G - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkMS is busy spinning off part of their desktop OS as a tablet OS while keeping their existing phone OS. The goal of a unified interface across all three markets makes sense on paper but MS has to deal with the legacy desktop paradigm hampering their desktop initiatives.
On the more positive side of things, MS looks to be merging the development side of desktop, tablet and phone rather well. It isn't perfect (unnecessary legacy desktop API's have crept into tablets) but clearly superior to having independent SDK's.
As for lack of 1080p support in Windows 8/RT tablets, I think that that is more of an OEM issue than a software one on MS side. Atom based tablets should handle it (and the 10W Ivy Bridge ones due out shortly definitely can). There are GPU's on the ARM side that can handle such resolutions, though they would require Windows RT drivers etc. Reply
snoozemode - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkI completely agree that the unified user interface Microsoft is trying to force on to all device types (read desktop) is a bad idea, for example i now have 40 tabs open and 5 programs that i need to switch between to do work, would just be completely impossible to operate with touch and the metro interface. But what is even worse is that they are taking the unified user interface approach with the help of 3 separated operating systems. The best solution would obviously be the complete other way around, one operating system with different user interfaces for different screen sizes and user experiences. Like Anand wrote some time ago, they are doing what they did with Windows mobile, just in reverse.
I'm quite sure WRT technically supports 1080p, but WP8 is definitely not. And when it comes to form factor it is clear that the user interface in WRT is designed for a ~10" horizontal device wheras WP8's user interface would work with smaller and vertically held tablets. But these are is just two small things why merging WRT and WP8 makes sense. The big things are obviously removal of duplicate developing, for Microsoft themselfs aswell as for developers, easier marketing, less confusion and easier adoption among consumers etc etc. Reply
Silent_Rage - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkI believe this is the general idea behind Windows Blue. It should have happened last year, but I got the distinct feeling (based on various news stories) that Sinofsky was somehow delaying this or playing hardball with the WP division. It has to happen SOONER rather than later, that's for sure. Reply
snoozemode - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkLets hope that is the case. But if that is what Blue is, what about current Windows RT devices? And WP8 devices? Will they too be left in the cold as WP7.5 devices? For me it feels like Microsoft has created this massive pile of mess that I'm not sure how long it will take before it's sorted out. I mean my Windows 8 computer still has two separated Internet explorers that doesn't sync favorites between eachother, and this is in year 2013. Reply
Silent_Rage - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkThe current RT and WP8 devices will be upgraded to Blue as well. I'm positive of this since Blue is a smaller form of an update as compared to the usual cycle we've seen with Windows in the past. Windows Blue will be the first "annual" update to Windows and we will see granular changes to Windows RT. On the backend, we will see a shift to align the two OSs (RT and WP8) to share the same APIs, more so than what we're seeing today. Reply
ninjacut - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkI actually prefer Microsoft approach of not using Phone OS on a tablet, firstly it simply becomes a more productive device and can handle content creation activity better than the Phone OS. Secondly, the way performance is improving in these SOC's the Phone OS will need to catch-up in features. This is already happening with Android doing multi-user and split screen like WRT and will continue to do so. Microsoft has a good advantage at this point.
Regarding the 7inch form factor, WRT can perform well but certain features will make less sense such as the desktop. But its again advantage and not a disadvantage.
The challenge is to release WRT 7inch tablet, at the right price asap! Reply
snoozemode - Friday, January 04, 2013 - linkMy point is that the WRT UI could stay as it is, the OS would just change UI depending on screen size as Android did in ICS.
Regarding desktop in WRT, can't really see the point of having it since you can't run any legacy programs anyway. It's basically there to run Office 2013. Make a Metro UI Office and remove Desktop. Reply
Wolfpup - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkThis sounds like a dumb question, but do Windows Phone 8 programs also run on Windows 8 and RT? P8 runs P7 stuff, and I've been assuming that RT and real Windows 8 can run Windows Phone 7 and 8 programs too, but not necessarily optimized for the display, iOS style...but I actually have no idea if that's the case.
Also...I have no idea if it's even possible to back up metro programs. I'm not a huge fan of iOS, but one of the things it does right is let you back up programs to a PC, so you can manage them and don't have to redownload multiple GB onto a new device, or when you're juggling storage.
Really disapointed Metro isn't open though...otherwise Windows 8 is what I've wanted since before the original iPad-a real PC that has an optional tablet interface...but to be a real PC it has to be OPEN...ironically Android is open (technically), Windows 8 as a desktop OS is open, but metro isn't :( Reply
damianrobertjones - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - link1080p 'real' resolution on a device like this would feature text so small you wouldn't be able to read. Increase the DPI? Might as well just drop straight to 1366x768.
Marketing. Reply
DeciusStrabo - Friday, January 04, 2013 - linkLike Android Windows 8 is able to display Metro-Apps independently from the physical resolution, meaning they always use a logical resolution (which makes them look like Babbies first computer-Apps on my 27" screen, since all elements and letters are huge, not taking advantage of the space offered, simply making everything scale up.
However the advantage is of course that this way they can use more pixels to display elements, making them look smoother (what Apple does with Retina, but more flexible as you aren't limited to multiples of their logical resolutions and the weird and resources intense offscreen rendering process).
So 1080p would be great to have on Windows RT/WP8 devices too, as it just means smoother and more readable UI elements, not smaller UI elements (disadvantage on desktops, advantage on mobile devices). Reply
mayankleoboy1 - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkIt has Adreno225.
How about NOOOO Reply
killerclick - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkLol @ 1366x768
Lol @ dead platform
Lol @ available storage
It's worth $350 at most (not even that if you don't need Office), although seeing how Metro devices are doing, they should be offering more for less. Reply
BrokenCrayons - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkI'm not at all a huge fan of Windows RT devices since I just don't see the value added in limiting one's computing to a keyboard-less device or having to add a keyboard at additional cost to perform data entry at a reasonable speed, but tablets have their place as content consumption and entertainment devices. They're also the current wizbang thing to purchase, replacing other fads like 3D TV and netbooks.
All that said, there's really nothing wrong with the screen's resolution given the 10 inch size. Yes, there's lots higher resolution devices available, but to make those devices usable, objects on screen must be scaled to a reasonable size, negating lots of the advantages while costing in battery life and platform performance managing pixels that are simply there to be checkbox specification for marketing.
The platform isn't dead yet. It might go the way of Windows Mobile someday, but it's sort of early to assume such is the case.
The device storage is pretty disappointing. Sure you can add memory via SD or an external devices, but it would be nice to be able to use more of what you're paying for OR for the cost of additional storage to be lower. One of the things that I don't care much for with RT (and 8-based tablets as well) is the large footprint of the OS. It hasn't gotten much worse since 7's launch, but the move from rotating hard disks to flash memory has certainly made getting lots of storage an expensive prospect. Power consumption and durability are nice, but vendors do make you pay if you want to keep much information on the device itself. Reply
Tech-Curious - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkWell said.
All that said, there's really nothing wrong with the screen's resolution given the 10 inch size. Yes, there's lots higher resolution devices available, but to make those devices usable, objects on screen must be scaled to a reasonable size, negating lots of the advantages while costing in battery life and platform performance managing pixels that are simply there to be checkbox specification for marketing.
Especially this bit. Reply
MonkeyPaw - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkActually, once you use a nice high-Res device, it is quite difficult to go back to a cheap panel. My vision is by no means great, but the difference between a TF300T and a TF700T is quite noticeable.
More to the current weakness of Windows 8--they need to get auto-correct going. So far, the touch keyboard is just that. MS just seems behind on system-wide text entry advancements. Reply
Tech-Curious - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkI'm not saying that a higher resolution can't improve your subjective experience on a very small screen -- but at the screen size we're discussing, the difference is nebulous, undefinable.
(The high-res panel might also have better color fidelity or a better contrast ratio, for example. Resolution isn't the only determinant of image quality -- and by definition, resolution becomes less determinant as screen size dwindles.)
High resolution is a luxury, and as BrokenCrayons points out, it's a costly luxury. To me, the benefit of a larger resolution is more than offset by the performance penalty. A tablet with a high-res screen will tend to cost more, and it will tend to age faster than a lower-res analogue. After all, your TF700T has to draw 222% more pixels than your TF300T. (2.28 million versus 1.024 million.)
Do you really think the TF700T looks 222% better? If you'd never used the TF700T, would the display on the TF300T bother you at all? The inferior tablet in your example boasts a pixel density 10% higher than the pixel density of the perfectly serviceable desktop monitor on which I'm typing this post, BTW.
As usual, the matter boils down to a value proposition. Of course a higher-resolution screen is better than a lower-resolution screen, all else being equal, but people on any kind of budget should consider how well a given resolution fits into their budget, both now and in the future. I say the same thing about desktop rigs; if you're a gamer, for example, and you get yourself accustomed to ultra-high-res and/or multi-monitor gaming, then you are signing yourself up for a very expensive hobby. You may only have to buy the monitor(s) once, but you're gonna have to keep shelling out for high-end video cards to accommodate it (them).
On the other hand, someone who is accustomed to (and content with) lower-resolution gaming can wring an immense amount of value out of their computer hardware. Likewise, a consumer who's content with less-than-preposterous resolutions on a tablet will wring more value out of his tablets. He'll feel compelled to upgrade less often, which is probably the reason tablet manufacturers are pushing high-res screens so hard lately. ;) Reply
Tech-Curious - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - link(That should say, "your TF700T has to draw 122% more pixels than the TF300T." The former has 222% as many pixels as the latter, not 222% more pixels. :) Reply
Tech-Curious - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkAll of that said, and whether you think a high-res tablet display is worth it or not, I think we can agree that killerclick's original, disparaging comment ("LOL @ 1366x768") was unwarranted given the size of the screen we're discussing. Reply
MonkeyPaw - Friday, January 04, 2013 - linkIn my search to replace my Iconia A500, I tried a W510, TF300T, and the TF700T. I am normally a value shopper too, but the older I get, the more my definition of value changes. I used my last tablet every day, almost exclusively at home, and I don't play FPS games on a tablet. It's not IF the screen is some quantitative amount better, it is if the clearly better screen is worth the extra cost. Considering you also get faster internals and better build quality for an additional $70, I'd say it's worth it. I didn't find that much variation in battery life, and the TF700T lasts "all day" and charges in a couple hours. I used 5% of my battery in 40 minutes of web browsing this morning. Reply
Tech-Curious - Friday, January 04, 2013 - linkI'm glad you're happy with your purchase. To clarify, it was never my intention to criticize the TF700T as a bad value in total. I'm actually a bit of an ASUS fanboy.
As you point out, there's more to the product than just the screen's resolution. My only point is that high resolution is a burden on the rest of the system. Like BrokenCrayons, I question how much practical use the consumer gets out of 1900x1200 on a 10.1" screen. Reply
ninjacut - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkIts absolutely worth the price, considering it runs a full OS and not a Phone OS. If you compare the footprint, WP8 has same size has Android or iOS.
Now add multi-user, desktop, office, file system, network share, with desktop grade utilities like power shell, explorer, task manager, disk manager, etc. etc. etc then obviously the footprint will be large.
Is that too difficult to realize? Reply
mayankleoboy1 - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkAnand, both SunSpider and Kraken are outdated benchmarks. Browsers have optimisations for them, which doesnt translate into real world performance.
The best benchmark is the "Google Octane". It consist of all real world tests. Reply
DanNeely - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkAny idea when this will be finished? We've seen battery results a few weeks ago alongside the Acer 510 review; and you've added CPU/GPU numbers on it in this review. What's left to do before the writeup? Reply
kyuu - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - link"I suspect that once we get to the next generation of SoCs we'll see a better story from all of the vendors (22nm Atom, Cortex A15 based Wayne, Krait 200/300 from Qualcomm)."
You seem to have forgotten about AMD's upcoming Temash tablet SoC. That's the one I'm looking forward to the most. Heck, I'd take the AMD's Hondo Z-60 over Clover Trail even today, if there were any tablets actually using it. Reply
mayankleoboy1 - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - link40nm Temash will be power hungry. It will probably have great GPU performance, but the battery life will be crappy. There is a limit on how many transistors you can add on 40nm. :( Reply
Death666Angel - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkAnandtech said they will be 28nm, so unless things have changed (in which case a link would be nice) they should be competitive. Reply
OoklaTheMok - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkAnand, the way you mentioned lack of a rotation lock on the ATIV Tab seems to indicate that there isn't a way to lock the screen rotation. Rotation lock is controlled via software @ Charms Bar > Settings > Screen. You likely know this already, but other readers may come away thinking that Win 8/RT lacks a rotation lock.
Thank you for your great review as usual. I always love the details you provide. Reply
powerarmour - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkSo where are the Adreno GPU tests?, how do the drivers perform in DirectX...
Talk about half a review! Reply
Ananke - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkAnything that cost equal or more than iPad is a marketing joke, and it wont sell well - it is that simple. I don't like Apple products at all, but once considering all the available applications, accessories, future support by even more applications, etc. there is no reason to spend the same money on something else than iPad. For the non-i fans there is Android already.
RT is already dead dog, for retail. It did have its several months of prime time, but the time is gone now...
Saying all of this while owning MS W8 desktops, laptops, and phones.
My ex-MS developer friends, that are now all Android developers, say they no more are interested or intend to move back to MS - it is just not worth developing for a very limited user base. Overpricing of RT doesn't help either. Reply
Visual - Thursday, January 10, 2013 - linkIt will sell if it runs Crysis. Reply
ImSpartacus - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkPage 2
"This test uses using AES for security." Reply
MonkeyPaw - Thursday, January 03, 2013 - linkHow is it when I run Kraken on my TF700T running Jelly Bean and Chrome, I score 22053? Is it hardware, Android or Chrome making the difference? That handily defeats all the Windows 8 tablets unless I'm missing something. Reply
Klimax - Friday, January 04, 2013 - linkBenchmark specific optimisation in Chrome most probably. (After SunSpider IE team apparently stopped paying attention to them) Also those benches are often written by browser vendors themselves and for their internal usage and thus originally targeted at their own browser reducing value of that for other browsers. (Testdrive, Kraken, Octane,...)
BTW: Comment form doesn't post under IE10 with compatibility mode off. Reply
MonkeyPaw - Friday, January 04, 2013 - linkI would love to see some cross-platform comparison. If my Tegra3 Android device produces that different of a result, I'd be interested to see just how different everything else might be. Reply
Relic74 - Wednesday, January 23, 2013 - linkI just recently purchased a Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet 2 and I have to say I'm really enjoying it. So much so that I'm selling my iPad. I tried to like the Apple, everyone has one, everyone seems to not be able to live without one, except me. Sure it's pretty, great hardware but the OS is so crippled and simplified it drives me crazy. The lack of media codecs, Flash, Java and something as simple as a file-manager doesn't help either, not to mention that the interface is boring and old. However for a while that was really the only viable tablet OS available, sure Android had the aforementioned but the UI is clunky, at times unstable and twitchy to say the least.
Windows 8 though, finally a OS that is not only fast but is also capable of getting real work done. Even now in it's beginnings the OS wipes the floor with iOS. I'm not a Apple hater as I really like OSX, I own a Macbook Air and love it but iOS just drove me crazy.
The Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet is one hell of a kit, it came down to that and the Asus 810c, I chose the Lenovo in the end because of the size plus I totally dug the look and feel. The little guy does everything I always wanted in a tablet; great battery, fast UI, nonrestrictive in what can and cannot be installed, a file-manager and a Mini SD slot. No Mini-SD card, who does that, Apple. I also don't want to have to plug my tablet into another computer and have to use a music player to transfer files across. Yes I know you can do it wireless. Skydrive is awesome, runs circles around iCloud not to mention I can sync certain folders because I have a file-manager, sorry as you can tell I have a real problem with sandboxing. I like it when my apps talk to each other, I like it when I'm in the photo manager and I can access the local drive or the many cloud services.
Even though my Lenovo is running on a Atom CPU you would never know it as it's very, very peppy. The lack of apps is a little disconcerting at the moment but hopefully by the end of this year MS will be a little caught up, but hey at least there is Evernote and the Facebook app is pretty good. I'm very happy with MS, first time in a long time. I'm just so glad to finally have a tablet OS that is worth a damn, sure iOS has the apps but that damn system hasn't really changed in the last 2 years, their just playing catch up with Android now.
On a side note stay away from RT for the time being, it really doesn't make sense right now as there isn't much that runs on it. The new HP 900 or Lenovo Tablet 2 are the way to go, even the Asus VivoTab 810c or Smart are superb machines.
Windows 8 on a tablet just makes sense and I highly recommend anyone looking to buy a tablet in the near future to really give it chance, I promise you will not be disappointed. Reply


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Utah High School Football Coach Suspends Entire Team for 'Lack of Character,' Makes Them Do Community Service
The sins of the few can cause the punishment of the many. One high school football coach in Utah is taking that idiom rather literally. Matt Labrum, head coach of Union High School in Roosevelt, Utah, suspended all 80 of his players on Saturday after the team's 40-16 loss, according to the Deseret News. The suspensions had nothing to do with the loss or the players' performance on the field, though. Instead, Labrum cited a "lack of character" as the reasoning for their collective punishment. Some players were skipping classes or or got involved in cyberbullying against a fellow student, according to the report. So, on Saturday, the head coach met with his players and gave each of them a letter outlining what they would need to do to earn back their spot on the team. "We felt like everything was going in a direction that we didn't want our young men going," Labrum said. "We felt like we needed to make a stand." Instead of practice this week, the Union High players were told to do community service, attend study hall and a class on character development as well as doing service for their families and writing a report detailing their actions. Players were also required to attend all of their classes and those who were struggling academically were also required to show some level improvement if they wanted to rejoin the team. Check out an excerpt from Labrum's letter to his players below. "The lack of character we are showing off the field is outshining what we are achieving on the field. It is a privilege to play this wonderful game! We must earn the opportunity to have the honor to put on our high school jerseys each Thursday and Friday night!" Filed under: Headlines, High School, Offbeat
More coaches should do this, It will help or get rid of bad apples before they give the entire team a bad name
jaycabby & NEMom10 - They say that, "a fish rots from the head back." Meaning that this situation is squarely the fault of the coach. He ultimately is the one who is responsible for the actions of the team, on and off the field.
Whistleberries, you are so full of corn. He nipped it in the bud, which is as you point out, his responsibility; not necessarily as a coach, but a mentor. Too bad more coaches don't take off the field actions of their players as serious as this coach has done. Most are consumed with winning the game and not punishing the "star" players.
So true. The coach cannot be with every player 24/7 but as he becomes aware of behavior that lacks character he should take the appropriate action. This coach will be remembered by these players as they begin their journey into manhood. Too bad more educational contacts do not take the stand he did. A principle in our county was removed from the school by the booster club because he insisted on the very same as well as a strong GPA (B- minimum). The booster club, a group of men who should have been mentoring these young men, sold them out for their own vicarious enjoyment.
KUDOS TO THE COACH!!! We have a middle school basketball coach here in southeast Iowa that coaches by degrading the players and intimidation. School board voted to keep him. WTF! We need more coaches like Matt!!
Are you serious, or just too dumb to really understand what you're saying? HE is ultimately responsible for THEIR actions? That's like a child who poops his pants and goes to his mom and says change me, SOMEONE pooped in my pants. THEY need to be held responsible for THEIR OWN ACTIONS! Give me a break.
He's a coach. The public will blame or praise a coach for the actions of the players, always. It's been that way for years.
A business owner will be blamed or praised for the actions of the employees. I know this from working at a payroll company. Employee screws up too many times, the client calls the owner an idiot for letting it happen then goes to a different payroll company.
are you related to Whistleberries, you are now ranked 2nd on the list of the biggest Idiots. Read the damn article before you open your damn mouth.
I don't think wilder125 is agreeing with whistleberries at all. What they said is actually true. The coach will be blamed by the public for what his players do wrong on or off of the field. It's just like parents get blamed for jerky actions that their kids do, but not all parents that get blamed should get blamed.
The parents instill character, or lack of, in these kids long before the coach knew them. You expect him to be responsible for them 24/7? What about the parents? When do they become involved? I stick with the coach. He's a lot better than most. My hat is off to him.
Holy crap, get your head on straight.
The coach didn't raise these kids; the rotting head belongs to their parents.
How true. He is given good and bad clay to work with.
You're absolutely correct but in today's sports world, coaches are more like psychologist than anything else. Part of their job is coaching boys into men. Such a huge and daunting task.
ok I liked this comment. LOL
Agree, agree, agree, agree! Those few need morality lessons and most likely the parents of those few that are letting their kids slide by with poor grades and allowing bulllying should be out there shoveling dirt with them! It is hard work to be a parent. If your not up for it then don't get yourself into the situation that lets you become a parent. Fishhead needs to grow up!
AMEN ! If the parents do everything they know is right in raising their children then is off them. Too many parents these days let their children go about the day and nights with no supervision what so ever. Sounds like these parents should be a little more on top of their children and more involved in what they are doing. Bullying really they need to be taken to the street and humiliated publicly. See how it feels to be bullied
its the coaches fault that there were kids on the football team cyberbullying? if you think that's the case...there is no logic in the world that would show you the error of your conclusion.
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how DARE you insult the president of the USA!!!!
In a different day and age which is probably rot nail, you would be hung from yer cojones and suffer the extreme consequences capeach?
funny last i check everyone is entitle to their opinion and the President is not doing nothing good for this country putting it deeper in debt, but like always he will blame Bush for that is easier than taking responsibility for his actions.
So reply to a comment or an article about the president of the USA where it is appropriate. Is one of these kids yours?
Opinion and respect are two different things
I agree but thats a few too many spelling/grammar errors.
That's right because now days you can only have an opinion and freedom of speech if you agree with the president. Lack of Logic did get Obama elected. What business did he run? What military experience did he have? Yet he is running our military and economy in the ground. You think about the fact that we are broke, he takes a 100 million dollar vacation but it is okay we just won't give our soldiers three hot meals a day or socks. Apparently you didn't loose your job, your house or now your insurance. And if you look correctly at LV Readers comment he insulted the voters not the president.
HOW is the President running the economy or military into the ground? by what measure?
We are broke? For how long have we been broke? Define broke. How did we get there?
Yes, I lost my job and it has nothing to with President. I lost it because my corporate heads were trying to force jobs to India and wanted me to provide cost data to support the move and I would not LIE. Whether you choose to insult the President or the AMERICANS that voted for him, do so with facts or points that make some sense.
Blow it out of your rear. the soldiers do get 3 meals a day. The MREs COME with heaters to heat up the pouches, and they do get hot. Not every freaking war had a mess tent that provided 3 hots every day. Do you think special gets 3 hots every day? No, they don't. Sometimes they have to subsist on plants and bugs. And Obama's vacations do not cost $100 million. If it is a high number, do you really think most of it is for the family? Hello, the family's secret service has to get paid, the logisitc team has to get paid to figure out contingency plans in case something goes wrong. pilots have to get paid, and there are other expenses. if the Obama's are buying souviners, we are kind of picking up the tab. You want to know why? BECAUSE WE PROVIDE HIM WITH HIS PAYCHECK!!!! Seriously, if we actually look at his 'vacations' bills, then the actual net total would be far less than what is being spewed.
Respect the Office of the President!
President needs to earn the respect just like these boys need to earn the right to wear a jersey respectfully.
Might I ask where you received your degree in political science?
Speaking of rotting from the head - you are a perfect example. You don't have to agree with him, but he is the President, and you owe the office respect. Grow up, moron.
The same lack of respect and hatred you show is the reason children are growing up with such defective characters. They learn from adults. So what have you shown the next generation? That disrespect and hatred are acceptable. If you hate and disrespect America so much,then leave. Iam sure we will not miss you.
I work with at-risk students, most of which come from homes where the education level of the parents is usually less than a high school diploma. My students often express their opinions in class about politics and other things. Most often these opinions are what they have heard at home. When questioned about the reason for their belief they generally have no response or one that is not based on facts. It takes a community to raise a child. We should all be supporting this coach and all educators that work hard to try and build the character of students and to help them learn to think for themselves.
That truly has nothing to do with the article.
wake up jack "A" Obama has nothing to do with the bullying in this article. It is idots like you who are the problem with our country.
Are you the parent to one of these players? This type of behavior begins at home. Parents need to take their share of this mess.
Follow that through and you find that it would be the fault of the PARENTS......
There is a test for everything that we have to do....I say there should be a test before being allowed to have the priviledge of raising a child! If not, then make it mandatory that parents go to classes on morals, ethics, and values. They make you do it to get divorced.
Do you have kids??? There is no way this coach is responsible for the actions of 80 young boys. The culprits need a good lesson in being accountable for their actions and that is exactly what this good coach is doing. What a great life lesson for these boys. Whistleberries-Be careful when you say things like that because trust me...it will come back to bite you in the butt!
That is a crock, the parents are the responsible ones
Or irresponsible...
So you both prove where the true fault lies....with you and parents like you.......after all that is where it all starts but you want to put it off on the coach, the school etc instead of placing the responsibility where it belongs...
WhistleBerries - you are so far off base you ain't even on the field! The coach has NO responsibility for what these kids do off the field- that responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of the parents. It's about time SOMEONE (since parents no longer seem to feel the need to do this)takes on the responsibility of teaching these kids basic right from wrong and decent human behavior. One wonders if you aren't one of "those" parents......
I agree, I have 5 children who all play sports and my husband ad I have also coached little league sports and wrestling. My oldest daughter recently quit all high school sports because she couldn't take the bulling anymore. I believe it is the coaches responsibility to teach the kids on the field or court and teach then life lessons, but it is the ultimate responsibility of the parents to teach their children respect, right and wrong, and how to treat others! This coach did the right thing. Someone has to step in. I wish we had people like this at our school.
Gosh I hope WhistleBerries doesn't/never have/has any children. The coach did the best thing possible without name calling or any of the other things so prevalent today. He addressed the behavior. That being said, the "fault" rests squarely on the shoulders of the student with an assist by the parents and peers. Maybe if more people (teachers, etc.) did this, we wouldn't be in the shape we're in today in America. A couple of other things I would change would be to have school meetings with parents and students combined, and show the videos from my school buses so they could see who had behavior problems. I'd let each class' parents know who the classroom behavior problems were, so THEY could either help with the behavior or would know who to sue when their child didn't receive a proper education because of misbehavior of any of the children.
Looks like Coach is taking that responsibility seriously. Three Cheers for him.
Is that to say that the "HEAD" would be the Parents. Though this coach is doing his best to train these young men up. The ultimate responsibility falls to the parents.
and the parents have no blame in this? hate to see your parenting skills, or should i say lack of them. any parent who relies on a high school football coach, notice i said high school, college is a whole new ball game. still the parents have to be the ones to blame here. most high school coaches teach classes or do other school tasks, not just coach that sport.
Excuse me but these are young men and know right from wrong. I applaud this coach for taking this matter into his own hands. Maybe other coaches should take a page from his playbook. Hopefully these young men will learn a life lesson from this experience.
In response to jaycabby; ultimately the head would be the parents. The coach is trying to intervene to give those young men some sense of moral obligation which they seemed to have very little to none. He is a role model doing what he thinks is right; however, the point of origin is the home.
Yep! another parent in denial! Blame the coach for the lack of proper parent up bringing. "The coaches fault?" REALLY!
Well whistleberries you may be right about the fish head. It seems yours is already rotting. This coach is showing his players that they are responsible for their own actions and that talent does not give you privilage. I bet you were one of those jocks who thought because he played what ever sport he was better than most. Grow up stop smelling like fish and grow some (bal!#%^
These boys are in high school. They know how they are supposed to behave. They also have parents. No, the coach is not responsible for those boys actions, they are. It's just easier to blame someone else. I admire the coach for caring enough to make them earn their way back on the team. It will be a valuable lesson to them, and in turn the coach will have earned their respect.
whistle berries you are a F'ing Idiot for that comment, the coach is responsible, what about the student parents? what they can't be held responsible for this. does all these players live with the coach so he can look at their home work every night.
I can go on and on on this but best to cut it short and just remind everyone just how big of a Idiot you are.
Please do not reproduce
Whistleberries, you're absolutely correct. As far as his team is concerned, the buck stops at the coach's desk. He saw something that was wrong, took action to correct and as far as I'm concerned, he needs to be commended. What if Joe Paterno had taken action when he heard one of his coaches was behaving in a manner that undermined his program? His statue would still be out front and his program not damaged. Too many times we turn our heads when things are going wrong and become more concerned with winning than with developing young boys into men. Look at Aaron Hernandez. What if his character had been corrected earlier? I salute you, sir
in this case the issue goes back to the parents...a high school coach can only do so much...skipping classes and cyber bullying? as the coach became aware of this he acted...i'm sure the parents are aware they're sons are skipping classes...several states have rules in place where the parents are contacted after after a certain number of unexcused abscences...in GA it's 5...I have a 16 year old son who I monitor his attendance weekly (I receive an attendance report AND a progress report by email every Sunday for the previous week)as well as his internet and cell phone use...parents are the FIRST line of defense when it comes to there children and how they behave...
What crap... if you're high school age, it's time to take responsibility for your actions. Why blame the coach for skipping classes and cyberbullying? The coach has nothing to do with that...What planet are you from?
"a fish rots from the head back" Actually a fish rots from the intestines outward, so your analogy is wrong from the start.
Even though you blame the coach, the story is about a coach taking resposibility and doing something about it, and I'm GLAD to see it. Personal responsibility isn't popular in today's blind liberal culture.
So it has nothing to do with the kids home life and parenting. Making sure YOUR kids are performing academically by showing an interest in their lives.
Love to play the blame game don't we Mom. Be interesting when your kid screws up who's fault it will be. My guess is not yours.
"A fish rots from the head back" - think about what you said! The coach is a mentor to these few punks that squarely ruined it for the rest of the good players. My friend, the fish that is rotting from the head back starts at the family! Family morals, ethics, and values .... had they been in place bullying, lack of educational values, etc would not have even been in the equation. Sorry, but shame on you for blaming a coach that is doing what every parent should have been doing to these few punks well before they got to high school!
Are you on crack? The couch is the one fixing the problem. This squarely lies on the players themselfs. Their lack of charter begins at home. What these kids are doing is not the couches fault. He can't police them 24/7. that the parents job. If these parents allow their kids to skip classes, fail in school and bully other students then they are more to blame then anyone.The couch did the right thing.
You couldn't be more correct if you read it in a book!! That's why what the coach is doing is the perfect way to start. Way to go coach!!!
I think we all are a little dumber after reading your comment...it starts at home, to expect teachers,coaches or anyone outside the home to raise ones kids is a failure in its self. Children should leave their homes each morning with the ability to respect their fellow man.....it all starts at home!
Not exactly. The parents are ultimately responsible for their children's behavior. The coach did the right thing because obviously the parents aren't involved.
How many Children do you have ? How can you say its the coaches fault? Maybe the problem lies at home and how and what they are allowed to get away with there. Im not saying its the parents fault either however, the saying is clean under your own step before walking on mine. Kids are kids and until there is a suitable punishment for their actions then nothing gets through to them. I think this coach has the right idea. Just the bullying is enough to make me want to take them to the streets and publicly humiliate them.Skipping classes and still playing. Uh noo.straight up disrespect and truancy. Go Coach
NUTS This coach is old school and similar in character to the ones I had growing up. They taught us to prepare ourselves saying some of us would be going to Vietnam, in my case they were right. I'm sixty-two years old now and I give them credit for being here. Thank God for those guys. RIP Coach.
I agree!
Having been a high school principal, I can say, "Amen" to your comment. However, the athletic director was one who believed that students should, first and foremost, be students and if they did not keep at least an 80 average, they had to attend Saturday morning tutorials which he held and tutored the players, male and female students alike. In all the years that I was a principal, we never had an athlete to fail a class, but many attended tutorials. WAY TO GO, Mr. Labrum!!
I think from the view of a family..it should be a wake up call. If you are offended by someone else leading your child to being a good citizen then you need to rethink what you are doing at home.
I was the latch key kid that had to sometimes find a little more than my parents could give me at times and remember my coach as being one of the people that put me on the right path in life. It wasnt because my parents didnt care, it was because in order to keep a roof over our heads they couldnt always be there. This isnt less common than 20+ years ago when I was coming up... Everyone that reads this thread look up Coach Mike Culp in Clover SC and see the affect that he had on some kids.. he was no less forward than the coach taking a stand in the article up above was but he made a huge difference on alot of people.. I applaud the people that take the time to make a difference
I was a NYC high school basketball coach for 13 years. One team I had was so disrespectful that they avoided practices, missed games, failed to return team uniforms at season's end, got into trouble outside od school, robbed stores, etc. At the awards assembly in June, I refused to give them their "A"'s, saying that to do so would dishonor all the other athletes present. The team got up, ran through the halls smashing the trophy cases and making off with some trophies. The next day I was called into the Principal's office and told I was fired from coaching ( I had 30 years teaching experience). I told him that that type of behavior was why they didn't get their Varsity Letters. Only one other coach backed my position. At a Superintendant's hearing, the Principal's position was upheld. Needlesss to say, I applied for an immediate transfer, and ended up at a Blue Ribbon school,from where I retired 3 years later :).
Good for you! You are to be commended for your actions. When God closes one door, he opens another. He opened yours to that Blue Ribbon School. Kudos to you and a bucket of raspberries to that principal.
Well said!
can somebody please explain why this is not the parents responsiblity why is it the coach????? parents are to afraid to tell their kids what they are doing wrong these days it is horrible!!!!!!!!!
"Getting rid of bad apples" I don't believe is the point here. Rather to correct, teach and instill integrity and character into the entire team and some of those "bad apples" which maybe lacking parental influence, mentors and guidance from home.
Bravo! It takes a village to raise a child. Thank you for taking a stand and making a difference.
That is the most irresponsible comment/answer i have ever read! No VILLAGE is going to correct the mistakes of "MY CHILD" i will take care of that "MYSELF"!!! I am The Parent, That is not the RESPONSIBILITY of others who have there own issues in life and the ignorance of people telling them to "NOT WORRY WE WILL TAKE CARE OF IT"!!!! MY ASS YOU WILL!! If it is my child' i will deal with the situation and dare any "VILLAGE IDIOT" to interfere!!!!!!! That is that NEMom10
Well, I've got news for you. You sound like a responsible parent, but you can't be everywhere. You'd better hope others around your child are supporting what you're doing because you CAN'T do it all yourself.
Merle53 - not ALL moms or parents are as concerned about their children as you are. That is why is takes a Village to raise some kids. Even 'great' kids make mistakes. When the Village see's a misstep and acts to correct it, pls. know that it is in the best interest in the child and the Village at large (i.e. the community and the world). No one said these kids were bad individuals or that the parents were horrible - the kids were simply making bad choices (skipping classes, bullying, etc.). A concerned person (the coach), stepped in and said enough. I'm a mother of 2 and I know full well NO parent is with their kid 24/7. If someone saw my kid stepping out of line, acting irresponsibly or being reckless, I would HOPE they would step up and shut them down. Even with that, trust me, I'll still take care of it at home...!
They are all right. I am going to be a very strict parent in the mere future. In my house, My wife and I, Which were agreed but I created, made 10 house rules, and they are way farther than any parent takes sometimes. All are good rules, but very strict. Alright, that is wonderful but who is going to take care of the child left on the street that was beaten, abused, left to die, choked, and bullied. Who is going to take care of the child during your work, other events that proceed not watching. The village and believe me I understand it is your enforcement of responsibility but other people have to step in to be responsible also because it is ultimately irresponsible to ignore a child to their parents. I see this commonly in families that are broken and split, and the kids involved run away, get abused horribly, and parents take it out on the kids. Also, what if that kid just snaps because I nearly did when I was a teen once and someone said stop politely, that almost happened, and it is not impossible for a kid to do such. I hear about connections fighting to keep kids out of gangs even, and some they saved and some not. It is just about responsibility.
Sounds to me like you would be part of the problem, obviously the parents of some of these children were not doing their part in disciplining their children so the coach took a hand in it, if you or they didn't agree with this, then your child wouldn't play football for this team
@ merle53
From the sounds off what was going on...the parents where not doing a good enough job to keep their children from doing the wrong thing...so maybe the community needed to step in. No one said you didn't do a good job raising your children, My parents did a good job raising me I think but lets face the hard truth, there are a LOT of parents out there that do not raise their children in a good way and who pays for that? The community so in this case the Community saw the need to act...it did...and it was the best decision made. If you can't raise your kids right then don't blame others for doing what you failed at...thats advice any would be parent should take to heart.
i know your kind. your kid can do no wrong. well he did and he didnt get all he should have got. that is what is wrong with the world today. bust your kids ass and he would not have done it to begin with. what is he the cops son or the preachers boy? it doent matter they are all the same. they are the worst.
I know your kind? SERIOUSLY? You know nothing about this person or what kind of character they have. You sound like a busy body who thinks you have to be off in everybody business. Straight up, if you are a good parent and raise your children to be good people then there is no reason for your community to get involved in your family business.
Correct. But there are parents out there who are so involved with careers and keeping up with the Jones', etc. Whose children are crying out for someone to pay attention. Not saying that you are one, but face the facts, S...... happens and if the parent is no where in sight, hopefully there is someone out there who cares enough to offer the attention these children need.
i keep to my self, but had to say something about, nobody punishes my kids but me. sound like some stupid parents i know. if i see the kids around here doing wrong, i tell the parents and they say is that all they did. prison bound
merle53 guessing you are one of these students commenting and if not, you are free to take your kid off the team, as they are surely one of the problems, like you, and the apple has not fallen far from the tree...
I agree that the education and behavior-guidance of our children is, first of all, our responbilibity as parents. And it is indeed unfortunate in the cases (be they few, or many, as various statistics might indicate) of some parents expecting schools, shelters, day cares, etc., to do all, or most, of the teaching/demonstrating of morals and suchlike.
As to the saying, "It takes a village to raise a child", I have seen evidence that this expression is often misunderstood. It originated in another country. I believe it is intended to express how we all share the responsibility of seeing that the next generation is safe, healthy, and educated - academically, morally, spiritually, etc.. If my child thoughtlessly runs toward the street to chase a ball, and another adult (or teen) is nearby,[closer than I can run to her], I'm grateful if they stop her. If I had a son, and someone saw him interacting with a drug dealer at school [I would not have raised him to do that, but these folks are disguised and tricky], I would appreciate it if they spoke to him, or to me. If I see another child in danger, or somehow making choices that stand to negatively affect them, I would at least talk to them and question their actions. We live in communities. If we all accept responsibility to help, the next generation will be prepared, wise, and morally strong. I firmly believe that is what the expression "It takes...child" means, and I support it - in word and deed! :)
I guess if the parents of his players were "taking care of it" the coach wouldn't have to. Your rant should have been directed at parents who leave character building to others...
All the coaches I know simply want to coach, not parent.
Perhaps the players on this team should give you a lesson on character. They will be better people because of this coach.
Wow merle53! You have some anger issues. I'll bet you'd be singing a different tune if it was your kid being bullied. Of course parents need to take responsibility! Duh! Many won't and that's where the problem lies. If you're such a great parent, then you'd welcome the example from a man with integrity. He didn't say, "Don't worry, I'll take care of it." He simply said you will earn your right to be on this team. My boys all played sports and would have welcomed some backbone in a few coaches over the years, that wouldn't stand up to the little brats with parents like you who just make a lot of noise. WAY TO GO COACH LABRUM!! I SALUTE YOU!!
You' right. Everything in life is earned, & the sooner that lesson is learned the better. These kids are being held responsibile for their actions. If you don't go to class & learn, they will be cleaning up the side of the road forever. This is their chance to get focused & get some direction in their lives.
The saying "It takes a village..." doesn't mean, "leave your child raising to other people"....What it DOES MEAN is that you don't know what your child is doing 24/7. No matter how strict a parent you are, there are times when you are not there. If the other parent's and community members watch ALL the kids, and what they are doing when they are out in the community, they can help inform the parents. Then of course, the parents take it from there. Kind of like "neighborhood watch", but on kids instead of houses. This HELPS parents and shows kids that the society they function in will hold them accountable for their actions. I do not understand why you or any other parent wouldn't want that kind of support.
sounds like ur ass needs to take care of yourself as well. If you are so blind to the actions of kids maybe u should keep them home 100% of the time. A kid out on their own will do as they please either at school or anywhere else. that is where the bullying takes place and the skipping classes, underage drinking, unprotected sex and more and more and more starts. We cant hog tie them at home and not all of our lessons and sermons sink in, they have to try some things on their own regardless of what has been taught and they SHOULD be made to pay for those actions happening behind your back and the coach is a perfect example of what should have been done!!! Act like a responsible person and correct ur behavior and need for knowledge THEN you can play. Praises to u Coach! and you Merle53 need a wakeup call
Talk about village idiots
So with this logic lets just all turn a blind eye. Let's have the attitude of "That's not my child skipping class, I have no responsibility to say anything." Anyone with character would not allow this to happen.
Parents have an important role in raising children, but it is foolish to think that they are the only ones who will teach their children and hold them accountable. Are you going to fend off all of the "village idiots" who expect your children to be decent people? Are you going to fight every teacher who gives your child a bad grade or punishes your kid for misbehaving? When your children start their first job do you plan on brawling with their employers for demanding your kids to do their job in a professional manner? The fact of the matter is that your children will learn important character building life lessons from other people. Some of these lessons will be painful to learn. You are human, and as such you will not be able to raise perfect kids or keep them from making bad choices with painful consequences. Be glad that there are still people in this world who care enough about your children to stand up and teach them lessons that will serve them well in life.
The problem is, not enough parents are taking the responsibility. My child has been picked on, bullied and ridiculed by kids just like this. If you say anything to the parents that their child is drinking, smoking pot and harassing other students they say "mind your own business, it is my kid" but that very kid is the problem causing heartache for other students. It is our responsibility, as a society, to help with issues like this, and if the coach is willing to step up and do what parents are afraid to do, then I say "kudos to him". Too many jocks walk around school stomping on others, and it is about time we put a stop to it. I am thankful that my children, who were excellent athletes, never stepped on the little guys, but stepped up to be role models. I wish my school had a coach like this, and maybe, just maybe my child and her friends would actually look forward to going to school.
Your attitude is terrible, Merle53. It used to be that neighbors and townsfolk looked out for one another, and that included making sure children were behaving. Now if you try to be involved, parents like Merle53 make a big stink about it, get all high and mighty, make threats, etc etc. God forbid anyone dare accuse your perfect kid of doing something wrong.
Let's be clear: you are one of the many problems in our society today.
You sound like many parents who do not want their children disciplined at school, through team play, etc. However, they want their children in all the activities in which the child wishes to participate but do not want to accept the discipline necessary for things to run smoothly. I hope that is not the case with you because you do seem to want your child to "behave" in a good way.
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