text:
The 2012 MacBook Pro Reviewby Vivek Gowri on 7/18/2012 2:00 PM EST
- Posted in
- Mac
- Apple
- MacBook Pro
- Laptops
- Notebooks
132 Comments
Back to Article
tipoo - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkAny info on that? Does this have the new fan as well? Reply
NCM - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkThermals shouldn't be much different than the previous model, since the internals are very similar, as is the TDP. See also the iFixit teardown here: <http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-15-Inch... Reply
tipoo - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkThe case design and airflow are different though. This doesn't have those side vents, more space for air though. And the whole heatsink design looks different. Reply
akfanta - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkI think the side vents and different case design are only for retina mbp. Reply
tipoo - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkI know. That's why I'm asking if the thermals and noise are different between the two. Reply
gnumantsc - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkFor $2200 that is absolutely a waste of money on a machine that has a 1400x900 and poorly spec'd. I would rather get the Zenbook pro over Mac any day of the week. Reply
coder543 - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkFor $2200, you should get the Retina Pro which is better than any Zenbook Prime by a good margin, and I would say better than any laptop on the market. (if someone points out a 10lb desktop replacement gaming laptop with an hour of battery life, they are only considering raw number crunching performance. A product is not defined by one number or another, but by all numbers considered at once.) Reply
Ratman6161 - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - link$2200 or $1799 or even $1599. I'm just not going to pay those prices for a notebook (anyone's notebook) no matter how good it is. They are just outside the price range I'm willing to pay. Reply
michael2k - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkDid you notice how the $2200 MBP compares to the 2008 8 core Xeon Mac Pro?
You're paying for a portable workstation, here. Reply
iSayuSay - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkA workstation from 2008 .. yeaah .. sure. Might as well say my iPhone is faster than Pentium III workstation box from 1998. I'm paying for a phone more capable than a full fledged computer 12 years ago. How can that be different? Reply
Samus - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkI don't understand the pricing, either. These Macbook Pro's make the Retina model look like a steal at $2199... Reply
cyabud - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkThat's kind of the point. If you're in the market for a new MBP, Apple are hoping you'll go for the Retina model. Reply
randinspace - Saturday, July 21, 2012 - link>_< That's so illogical you're probably right. All I can say is, WTF Apple, WTF. Reply
ciabatta - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkFor $2200, I'll get a Zenbook Prime for me and my wife! Reply
ciabatta - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkHah, that is, 2x Zenbook Prime can be a lot more useful to many people than 1x rMBP. Both good, but saying a $2200 laptop is better than a $1100 laptop is kinda missing the point. Reply
mavere - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkAnd what point is that? If I buy 2x Zenbook Primes, at least one would spend most of its life in its box.
1) People have budgets. At times, they're higher than yours might be.
2) Higher end features demand higher prices.
Perhaps you should get comfortable with those facts. Reply
Sunburn74 - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkI think its dubuous to say that apple really is offering higher end features over the recent advances of their competitiors.
Even if they are, this much higher is... well simply put outrageous, even compared to their OWN PRODUCTS! Reply
darwinosx - Thursday, December 06, 2012 - linkThen you need to read the retina MBP reviews. Reply
darwinosx - Thursday, December 06, 2012 - linkAsus makes junk that they fail to support. Plus you are still running Windows. Life is too short for either. Reply
inplainview - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkThen don't buy it for God's sake. It's not your money... Reply
Sunburn74 - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkWhat? you have to buy something in order to be able to rightfully criticize it these days? Reply
stimudent - Friday, July 20, 2012 - linkAnother overpriced Apple product. Reply
stimudent - Friday, July 20, 2012 - linkAnything that gives us an alternative to Windows is a good thing. Now if only we could get away from Intel chips. Reply
Hendrix248 - Saturday, July 21, 2012 - linkNever heard of Linux? Why would you want to move away from the best chips on the market? Reply
Belard - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkAs another has posted, its a standard design.... and it is a bit expensive. A ThinkPad T500 with the same specs that comes out of the same FOXCONN company sells for several hundred dollars less.
okay, where is the full review on the Motorola Atrix HD?! Reply
Belard - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkBy the way... a physical Ethernet port is still very handy for those times when you cannot get WIFI... there are some hotels/motels who are still wired. Or if you are at a location or family place where the WIFI fails or they lose the WiFi Password.
Or you are at a clients place and need quick access and they don't want to give your wifi access. Reply
inplainview - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkIt has Ethernet over Thunderbolt.... Reply
Hendrix248 - Saturday, July 21, 2012 - linkAfter you buy the adapter... Reply
Grok42 - Sunday, July 22, 2012 - linkWi-Fi is great for quickly connecting to the Internet and other casual usage but I think apple has really underestimated the need for a wired connection, at least with current Wi-Fi tech. The problem with Wi-Fi is that it has a MUCH higher latency than a wired connection. This is important for voice, video or remotely viewing desktops. Wi-Fi is also very prone to dropping connections if for only a split second. You would never notice when browsing the web as the connection is stateless. However, if you use any networking services that won't survive a dropped connection it can be frustrating. These services include copying files, SSH, RDP, VNC, etc.
Probably the biggest need for Ethernet is when dealing with large files. I can transfer a 15GB file from our servers in a few seconds with a gigabit Ethernet port. I have had it take hours to copy the same file over Wi-Fi. That is unless the signal drops at which point you will want to throw things when you have to start over again.
It seems that Apple or someone should be working on standardizing a slimmer version of the RJ-45 connector. Dongles go against everything Apple stands for on the design side. Reply
sandro - Tuesday, July 24, 2012 - linkThis is something I have been wondering since some time. What is in the way of standardizing a slimmer RJ-45 connector? Adapters would be so inexpensive that they could be included with the product. I wonder why Apple went this way instead of making a thunderbolt to ethernet dongle, which by construction costs quite some money and takes away one (to become) precious port. Reply
dillettante - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkThe superdrive can be replaced with more internal storage. I use a SSD for a fast system drive and supplement that with a large mechanical HDD for data storage.
J Reply
chemist1 - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkAgreed, for many that might be the most significant advantage of the older form factor. Also, you would need the older form factor if you wanted a dual-SSD RAID configuration for better performance. Reply
Bonzauker - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkExactly the reason why I stay away from the retina, at least at the moment. I put one 256 GB as main drive and the 750GB replacing the DVD. For my job, a notebook with only 256GB is useless. Reply
GotThumbs - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkI choose to read this additional Apple review since it was written by a different reviewer, but feel it provides little value over just posting the spec comparison sheet directly from Apples website. This is simply a comparison between Apples past iterations of its own past parts bins. How much time was spent on this anyway?
It would have been more informative if it had included other vendors similarly spec'd systems in the performance. While they won't have resolutions comparable to the Retina screen....Apples hardware is made up of many PC components available in the market place. Of course this excludes Apples proprietary designed reiterations of PC components (SSD).
I think the only point that really needs to be made ...is that if your an Apple user...here is yet another version of the old case with overdue upgrades in the internals. Non-Apple users need not bother.
I used to like to read Anandtech because It would provide an opportunity to learn about new technology and provided comparable performance information between components and systems in a clean and unbiased manner.
From now on...maybe it would be best if any Apple product review begins with..This review sponsored by Apple.
I'll still continue to read Anandtech, but know that any Apple review is just an advertisement/endorsement and thus read it with limited expectations of an unbiased comparison whats currently available in the marketplace.
At least this reviewer provided readers with information on an option for savings by passing over Apples overpriced upgrades and go thought a vendor for the parts at a price savings. I'm sure Apple reps were not happy, but it helps provide a small sense of reader centric writing instead of pleasing Apple.
$2,200 for a laptop...when there are PC alternatives available for hundreds less....yet no mention or comparison of those systems. If readers are only browsing, email and FB'ing...is this really worth the money? Only if your a tech-fashonista.
Sad. Reply
Sunburn74 - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkWell said. Pretty much a review for people who have already decided they want to buy a mac and nothing else. Reply
Sunburn74 - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkIn addition, in this day and age, to sell any machine costing over $1000 without a SSD is an absolute travesty. Reply
nevertell - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkAnand has stated before that there is little to no cross shopping between apple and pc laptops.
It is difficult to review different hardware with different OS's. Whilst many components may seem to be the same, apple has been known before to slip their own secret sauce into the hardware to be able to do things that just wouldn't be possible with the standard PC hardware, like the scaling hardware in the rMBP. Reply
Freakie - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkScaling hardware? And I haven't really seem much secret sauce in Apple's hardware. I see lots of lazy sauce, and people confusing design flares with engineering prowess. Reply
pmhparis - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkSo, in your opinion Apple didn't innovate with the rMBP+OSX scaling Where can i find it then? Not on any PC+Windows nor on any PC+Linux.
You clearly refuse to see that its the whole package that makes the rMBPs scaling a class above everything else out today. Too much emotional investment in windows like so many others. At least it makes it easy to see that your complains are biased. Reply
Super56K - Friday, July 20, 2012 - linkI think it's more emotional investment in the hatred of Apple as a whole. Reply
dagamer34 - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkThere is no scaling hardware in the rMBP. Apple instead uses custom software scaling algorithms. Did you really read Anand's review?
Regardless, with a Mac, you are basically paying for support up front in the form of stores where you can easily get your Mac serviced, and if it's badly screwed up, totally replaced. Reply
Sunburn74 - Friday, July 20, 2012 - linkIf thats true, how come with every windows laptop, anand is sure to include little macbook and macbook air jabs here and there? Reply
robco - Friday, July 20, 2012 - linkMost likely be cause Apple sweats the details in their designs while others don't. If they can't get something adequate for their goals off the shelf, they design their own. I've yet to see a review of an ultrabook where it manages to have a good display, good keyboard, solid build quality and, the big one - a trackpad that works well. Yet the MacBook Air hits all these points. The panel is decent (not the very best, but good), the keyboard is great to type on and backlit, the unibody design is solid and the multitouch trackpad works great. Battery life is also very good.
I think it's the frustration that other companies are either unwilling or unable to design laptops with the same level of care and attention to detail. Apple provides a very good end-to-end consumer experience. It's a shame that so far few have come close to matching it. Reply
Sunburn74 - Saturday, July 21, 2012 - linkNo what I'm saying is, if anand truly believes there is no cross shopping between apple and windows machines, why with every windows machine review he has little jabs about how they pale compared to apple and he throws in an obligatory "you can buythis machine but for more money you can just buy apple", but with apple reviews he fails to mention that windows machines exist at all.
You can't play both sides of the field at once. Reply
seanleeforever - Thursday, August 02, 2012 - linkbecause Anand is a Mac lover (i think he made similar statement in one of his apple product review) and as such, he felt obligated to point out how inferior other PC manufacture is in comparison.
it is like, when you describe how smart a monkey is, you always list a human as a reference, but you never do the other way around.
Me, on the other hand, don't care crap about apples' product. it is too limiting and i think OSX is (at least to me) less functional than windows, which fits college girl perfectly since all they do is facebook and youtube, and you don't have to worry as much when clicking randomly ads or fancy icon on the web.
i have yet to see a serious programmer use mac. just saying. Reply
mavere - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkConsidering that only Apple laptops can legitly run OSX, it means that if you're in the market for a Macbook, you're pretty much *only* in the market for a Macbook.
The sparse comparisons to other Macbooks were warranted in context of a barely upgraded product, and the review even ends in an anti-endorsement!
Honestly, you're just complaining because you have preconceived notions of the brand, and are just upset (for some reason) that the reviewer didn't build up on those biases, even if he didn't refute them at all. Reply
Sunburn74 - Friday, July 20, 2012 - linkNot really. There are plenty of people who consider both macs and windows. I consider myself in that category. I'm willing to switch to a macbook air if the price is right, OS regardless. However, I just don't see why I should suffer through an OS switch at those prices compared to what comparable windows machines offer.
But thats just the thing: when guys like us who have no problem putting bootcamp on say an iMac or something, or having 2 or 3 oses, or dare I say run linux if our mood so fits us read reviews like this, we get no actual information other than "drool anand loves macs... buy one....drool some more".
How about some objectivity? Some comparisons for people who could buy a macbook pro or could end up going with a nice high end sony vaio or something. Reply
ggathagan - Friday, July 20, 2012 - linkBut that has been done to death in so many other articles, it ends up with the reviewer essentially beating a dead horse.
Seriously, do you really need the reviewer to state for the umpteenth time that if you are platform-neutral, you tend to get better value from a non-Apple product; that you pay extra for the Apple name and look? Reply
Krane1 - Sunday, August 12, 2012 - linkI doubt that. Maybe one half of 1%. Other than that, you either buy foreign or domestic Reply
ananduser - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkI am eagerly awaiting for the MBP 13" review. Reply
tipoo - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkIf you want one, I'd advise waiting at least until the end of October, a few sources have been saying the 13" is next up on the Retina upgrade docket. If it's anything like the 15"s, that means a few hundred more for a far better screen, SSD, and more RAM.
As for the current one, pretty easy to extrapolate, slightly better battery life, slightly better CPU performance, up to 60% better GPU. Reply
secretmanofagent - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkThat makes no sense to me. The 13" to my knowledge has never had a discrete graphics card, and it would be very close to the 13" MBA (and has never had quad core). It would make more sense to drop the 13" MBP and just do the updates on the MBA. Reply
joer80 - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkI agree with this review. (Owner of rMBP.) Good job AnandTech! Reply
nikolayo - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkAm I the only one who believes that in 2012 a 1440x900 screen is entirely inadequate for a top-tier notebook which MBP aspires to be? Reply
tipoo - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkOn this site, probably. I love my 1920x1080 on 15". Reply
pmhparis - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkI appreciated my Dell e6500s 15" 1920x1200 too but
- it was heavy, & I carried it work-home half the time on my back
- It had throttlegate problems where GPU use would throttle the CPU down to 10%
- It's middle of the road build quality meant that it was coming apart at the seams.
My daughter's 2009 MBP is in great shape even if has a few dents from being put in a bookbag that was dropped a couple times.
I now have a rMBP that I'll certainly use 2 x longer than any PC I've had up to now. Why is it that some people believe that a PC that is cheaper but needs to be replaced more often is less expensive? Reply
Death666Angel - Friday, July 20, 2012 - linkWow, I don't see how you manage to engage in any of the conversations to which you replied. You just ended up bashing on Dell notebook, praising an Apple notebook and making a general statement that is (as most general statements) very flawed. Good job! :D Reply
tipoo - Thursday, August 16, 2012 - linkWhoops, read OP as adequate, not inadequate. Reply
sudokill - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkIf you buy a 2012 MBP, ditch the optical drive and put a 256GB SSD, upgrade to the higher res screen, you essentially get the rMBP price. But for losing the retina screen, you get completely replaceable parts (keep in mind the warranty is still the same at 1 year for both), over 1TB of total internal storage (you keep the original 750GB HDD), same SSD speed, ethernet port, FW port, and the ability to upgrade/change components. The retina screen is nice, but is it really worth all that??
The most important is the peace of mind... if any little component goes bad on the rMBP after a year, you'll have to scrap the whole thing or pay an arm or leg to fix. With the regular MBP, you can easily replace your own parts. Reply
inplainview - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkThat is if you live in the US with the crappy warranty. However in Europe the warranty is two years... Reply
Death666Angel - Friday, July 20, 2012 - linkPlease inform yourself before you make such statements. I don't know how this translates to the rest of Europe, but in Germany, Apple still only offers 1 year warranty (="Garantie"). Warranty is a voluntary service the manufacturer provides. The thing we get 2 years of is "Gewährleistung" which my online dictionary translates as "defects liability"/"guarantee"/"warranty". "Gewährleistung" is something you have with the retailer. However, after 6 months there is a shifting of the burden of proof which means you will have a hard time getting anything after that. Reply
repoman27 - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkOr you could shell out for AppleCare and be covered for 3 years.
I never go for the extended warranties personally because I fix my own stuff. I reckon that in a couple years eBay will be awash with MBPR parts. The device essentially breaks down into 14 components, making repairs super simple—If you can find a Torx Plus Security screwdriver. Trash your $2199-$3749 laptop? Part it out and you could recoup a good deal of that.
Apple stuff rarely just gets tossed in the trash. I see beige and black boxes in dumpsters and on the curb all the time, but not usually Macs unless they're more than 10 years old. Reply
joos2000 - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/FACOM-Tamperproof-SECURITY...
Not cheap, but what is nowadays (if you want decent quality gear)? Reply
pmhparis - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkNot quite the same SSD speed, at present. Anand's numbers show that the SSD in the MBP is faster. Give it a few months & you may be able to get a faster SSD than the rMBP's but not right now. Reply
nevertell - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkEthernet is still a lot more reliable than Wi-Fi. Imagine if you have to do some stuff to your router, then there is no other way than using the ethernet port.
I believe that networking for any kind of a functional computational device is essential nowadays, then again, this isn't a device that is targeted at people who use their laptop for administering other devices or coding.
Still, I can't wait for the day that lenovo will finaly send you their latest X, T and W series laptops.
I would just love a X230 with 16 hour battery life and Thunderbolt, so I could just have an external GPU to game on it at home and excellent battery life and portability. Reply
Freakie - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkMost routers come with USB ports so it's still manageable with a computer without ethernet. Though I do still think ethernet should stick around. Sometimes you find yourself in a place with crappy WiFi but a readily available ethernet port (office buildings, universities, ect.). Plus if you're doing online gaming on a laptop, getting yourself some CAT6e or CAT7 cables supposedly makes that little bit of difference xP Reply
pmhparis - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkWhat exactly is the point of your comment in an article about the non retina MBP given that it has an integrated ethernet port?
Even for a rMBP all it takes is a $30 TBolt<>Ethernet cable? That's what make it too hard for you? Reply
SongEmu - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkYup, did just that. Got a late 2011 MBP 15", put in an SSD and a hard drive caddy to replace the optical drive. Power button to login screen in 16 seconds, costs less than $1600 with no tax, no shipping. Got Parallels for free with it. Reply
olivebranch2006 - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkJust purchased a Thinkpad T530 with Full HD 1920x1080 display with 95% color accuracy, not this 67% on the MBP.
Intel Core i7-3720QM Processor
NVIDIA NVS 5400M Graphics with Optimus Technology, 1GB DDR3 Memory
Keyboard Backlit - US English
720p HD Camera with Microphone
320GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm
DVD Recordable
9 Cell Li-Ion TWL 70++
Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 AGN
with 4 year onsite warranty with accidental protection. All this with the carbon fiber-reinforced plastic shell and internal magnesium roll cage the Thinkpad T series is famous for.
Guess how much? $1,530 total with tax/shipping.
Beat that apple. The Macbook is purchased for two reasons:
1. You like OS X. Which is fine, I think OS X is a great OS with low level audio/video optimizations that windows can't beat. I prefer Windows better.
2. A lifestyle choice. Reply
dartox - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkMaybe, but you haven't noticed that the 650m inside the MacBook Pro is far superior to the card you have there in the Thinkpad. In fact, last year's MacBook Pro still has faster graphics than the Thinkpad. Not to mention that (although Thinkpads are known for being durable/reliable), nothing can touch the unibody build quality of these MBPs. For a couple hundred dollars more, a Mac fills in all the (albeit minor) gaps that the Thinkpad has. Reply
snajk138 - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkWell, the graphics in the MBP is faster when it comes to games and such, but the NVS is a professional grade card that is tuned for reliability in CAD/CAM applications and the like. Not really comparable to the consumer grade card in the mac.
And you are mistaking perceived quality for actual quality. The MBP is one of the best when it comes to the perceived quality but it doesn't hold a candle to (real) thinkpads when it comes to actual quality. Iv'e dropped thinkpads on a concrete floor, spilled coffee in them and really just abused the hell out of them and I've still haven't had one break before their time. Try that with any mac and you'll see the difference between perceived quality and actual quality.
I'm not saying that a MBP is a bad choice. I mean, it is thin, light and the performance isn't bad, and a lot of people seem to think they look nice in spite of the dated aluminium design. But a lot of people prioritize differently. Reply
Malih - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkyeppp, a macbook is a brick once you spill liquid over it, for most people that have them. Reply
pmhparis - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkSo, for the 0.01% of the people who need to perform CAD/CAM work on it the Lenovo is better. Good to know.
As for build quality, It'd be nice if the series of lenovo's my company gave me that I
passed of to my son would have been able to withstand the same level of abuse that my daughters MBP got. The Lenovos broke. The MBP just got dented for whet seemed to me to be worse treartment. I had to get the Lenovo's replaced 3 times but the MBP is still running solidly.
I think your "percieved" is an artifact. Reply
dartox - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linki've dropped my macbook pro several times, on hardwood here and the tile floors of india with no damage to the screen, just scratches and scuffs on the unibody casing. don't underestimate the build quality of a macbook pro. not to mention that non-unibody computers can have the casing compromised and parts start to come apart after drops. the "roll cage" is only good for saving the screen if you're lucky (and it's not perfect either). Reply
The0ne - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkI whole heartily agree with you. Most members here have this perceived quality about Macs, Apple products in general, that they can't seem to think beyond it. The main reason for this perception is inexperience and, for some, ignorance. I should state that ignorance is from the lack of not knowing because you were too young, never read about it, never researched, etc. I don't mean it to be condescending. The other is because of personal, very subjective opinions such as your laptop, usually PC in this case, breaking down first before your Mac.
Thinkpads are great industrial laptops and can stand whatever force you put on them. That is really why they are so popular. If you haven't used them you don't know how valuable they really are, more so than any review can do for you imo.
Having said that though, the sheer amount of cheaply priced laptops nowadays should be avoided at all cost. They are horrendously made and it would be worthwhile for you to spend a little more for a good quality build laptop. If Mac makes you feel good and safe owing it by all means own one, just know that there are laptops on the PC side that are very very well made for professionals, especially for those that travel often.
The MBP is good product and I absolutely love the retina display but for the price it is very difficult for me to make a purchase for myself or have reasons enough to persuade the company to consider them.
Lastly, I agree that Mac reviews here are really left alone without comparisons to Windows counterparts. Whatever the case may be, it is the same for Windows base laptop reviews with the difference you have choices on the Windows side to actually have comparisons between them. This is the key difference in the reviews. While acceptable the way Anandtech does the Mac reviews, they are in some ways very limiting. You basically just have a review/update of a product with no choices to consider. As someone already said, when you consider a Mac you want a Mac and will get a Mac. There's no other choices when you dive in the Mac side. Reply
The0ne - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkIt seems other have responded before my post went live about the quality of MBP and thinkpads. Again, comparing what your daughters does to a thinkpad and MBP is ludicrous. You don't know what each has gone through to be broken with. Here's what you should be looking for when you shop, the tests and facts.
Thinkpads are tested and qualified to sustain damage, to a certain high degree. I don't know about the MBP and whether it goes through the same types of test so I can't say much (my ignorance here). I've done my share of destructive testing on products and I don't doubt the MBP has gone through some. But these thinkpads are sturdy and are made to be that way.
When you're making comparisons that is what you should be looking for, not making irrelevant justifications because your kids, your wife or the dog can break your windows laptop quicker than your Mac. That's just insane. Reply
Super56K - Friday, July 20, 2012 - linkSo you say: "When you're making comparisons that is what you should be looking for, not making irrelevant justifications..."
And you even began your initial post critiquing others on "perceived quality about Macs."
But, aren't you yourself doing that? You say you don't know what kind of testing they go through, but that doesn't stop you from indirectly hinting that they're not durable. Seems like very contradictory reasoning. Reply
snajk138 - Saturday, July 21, 2012 - linkThe Thinkpads go through MIL-SPEC tests for use in field and vehicle semi-ruggedized computing environments such as in public safety, utilities, construction and the military. That is why they are used by the military, by NASA in space and so forth. Macs don't go hrough that kind of testing and therefore are not used in those types of environments. Reply
joelypolly - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkWell the Thinkpad is 1.25~1.40" thick and heavier than the 15" MBP. Reply
KoolAidMan1 - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkThe GPU in that Thinkpad is much slower, plus you're also getting less storage. This is before we get into things like trackpad and keyboard quality, magsafe, an OS optimized for laptops, etc etc Reply
snajk138 - Saturday, July 21, 2012 - linkThe GPU only matters for games though, and neither machine is really ment for that.
Less storage depends on how you order it, the thinkpad can have an SSD in the m-SATA port, an SSD or HDD in the HDD-bay and an optical unit, SSD or HDD in the optical bay. So, more options.
The trackpad is better on a mac but it doesn't offer a trackpoint (nub, nipple, clit or whatever you want to call it) that many prefer to any trackpad and Thinkpads have arguably the best keyboards of any laptops. Magsafe is mostly a gimmick, a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. OSX isn't more optimized for laptops than Windows. Reply
cyabud - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkIt is a shame that Apple hardware is so expensive and it's the primary reason that thousands of geeks out there are experimenting with hackintoshes.
I run Windows and OS X on my machines (Windows for games, OS X for everything else) partly because I prefer OS X and partly because I use software (namely Logic and Final Cut) that only exist for OS X.
I've been through my fair share of MBPs over the years but in 2009 I decided to build a desktop and go the hackintosh route. It is virtually identical to an Early 2009 Mac Pro (single CPU model) and I saved about €1000 in the process.
When it comes to notebooks though, I will still cough up the extra cash for a Macbook because I know it'll run both OS X and Windows without a hitch. Getting OS X running on a PC is considerably harder when you don't get to pick and choose each individual component in the system.
Although there are things I admire about Apple (tight integration between product lines, pushing high res displays into the consumer market and a lot of the very high quality software that comes bundled with Macs) it is a real shame that ultimately choice of hardware is so limited and you're pretty much obliged to pay a premium for it if you want OS X (and you're not a geek who's willing to get his hands dirty).
If OS X isn't your cup of tea or vital to your workflow, there are very few reasons to justify buying a Mac. Reply
ABR - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkWhen will we stop getting these tired old posts comparing specs? Yes, you can buy a Chevy Impala with the same horsepower, gas mileage, etc. as a BMW 3 Series. It'll probably last decently and be easier/cheaper for you to fix if something goes wrong. Does that mean you're willing to pay the same price as for the BMW? Folks, the whole is not the sum of the parts.
Even if you somehow conclude that Windows with all of its need to manage anti-virus and anti-spyware spyware, hunt down media management/creation programs OS X gives you out of the box, deal with DOS legacy clunk, etc. is on parity with OS X, you are still missing the little things and the intangibles that bring the whole experience up to a different level. I could list these and you could laugh at them, just as you can laugh at BMW owners for wasting their money when half their cash would have gotten them equally well from point A to point B. But that's not going to stop people from buying them. A "lifestyle choice"? Heck yes! Reply
cyabud - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkAlthough I understand and agree with much of what you're saying about the intangibles of OS X; you're still assuming that OS X is "better" than Windows. Arguing over which system is better is pointless as it's completely subjective.
In my opinion Windows is better for games and broad software compatibility. There are also some great features in Win 7 like window snapping which require the purchase of a cheap app if you want the same functionality in OS X.
On the other hand, I find I work more efficiently in OS X and everything feels more fluid and fast. I run both systems off solid state storage, while all my media resides on hard drives, and I still find that OS X boots/sleeps/shuts down faster and generally feels more responsive overall.
Have you ever tried sitting someone in front of a Mac who's never used on before? I think you'll find that most will tell you it's not as intuitive as fanboys like to make out and that Windows is "much easier to use". Ultimately it's all down to what you're used to and your personal preferences/needs when it comes to the software you use.
If you run both systems you truly get the best of both worlds. Reply
ABR - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkI didn't mean just OS X, I meant the hardware also. Things like the feel of the machine, the way it clicks when you close it, the soft, analog pulsing of the sleep light, the battery indicator, the lack of cheesy Intel stickers, etc. etc.. The details of the experience are paid attention to by the engineers and designers, and it makes a difference to the QUALITY of the experience perceived by (some, not all) users.
I agree with you about one OS or the other seeming "easier to use" based on experience, and in fact would even say 7 has brought Windows pretty close to the Mac in terms of a lot of this "quality" stuff from just the OS perspective. But it's the whole experience that matters, not just software or hardware alone. Reply
uiane - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkMan, the retina is a beauty!!
the main issue is, FIREWIRE.
We audio people are left with no option other than de 15" cheaper version + SSD + 16GB.
and maybe swap the drive for a second HDD. (lossing the warranty)...
Everytime I think in trading my Late 2011 15" I think on the retina with 512GB SSD and 16GB ram on, but then, NO FIREWIRE.
Apple talked about a thunderbolt to firewire adapter in july... well, july is passing. Reply
inplainview - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkOn August 1st you have a valid gripe... Until then, not so much... Reply
Prism - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkIn regards to the pricing comparison in this article:
When I bring the base 15" MBP up to rMBP standards with an additional 4gigs of RAM and swap out the HDD for the 256gig SSD, it ends up being $200 MORE than the rMBP, not $100 less. Just wanted to point that out... Reply
Death666Angel - Friday, July 20, 2012 - linkLet's see:
We have the base MBP for
then he adds a Samsung 830 256GB and 4GB RAM which he says cost
~$250 + ~~$50 => ~$300
making the total
$1799 + $300 = $2099
Which is $100 less than the rMBP starting point of $2199.
Then he say that if you are eligible for student discounts, the rMBP is priced not $100 higher but actually the same, since it is discounted more heavily.
Maybe you are going by Apple upgrade prices? Reply
Roland00Address - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkWhy did they went with the i7 dual core (3520m) with the 13 inch instead of the i7 quad core (3612qm). The tray price of the i7 dual core is $346, the i7 quad is $378 so that is a $32 dollar difference. Both chips are 35 watt tdp (this is a first for intel, some ivybridge i7 quad cores has a 35w tdp while sandybridge did not have such a chip in a laptop.) Only other possible reason besides $32 dollar cost is the dual core supports intel vt-d
i7 3612qm
2.1 ghz base speed
2.8 ghz quad core max turbo
2.8 ghz tri core max turbo
3.0 ghz dual core max turbo
3.1 ghz single core max turbo
i7 3520m
2.9 ghz base speed
3.4 ghz dual core max turbo
3.6 ghz single core max turbo Reply
tipoo - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkMaybe saving the quad for the Retina 13"? Reply
Death666Angel - Friday, July 20, 2012 - linkTDP is the same, maybe actual power consumption and thermal development not? :-) Or they are saving it for the rumoured 13" rMBP. *spooky sound* Reply
SantaAna12 - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkMacbooks only compared to other Apples.......comon. Every once in awhile you guys do this.....shades of Toms antics. YOU ARE BETTER THEN THIS! Reply
juanml82 - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkPeople who have invested in Firewire external drives will need the firewire port. I see practical reasons for that port to remain, while there are no practical reasons to remove it other than FW800 not being new and flashy anymore.
I just don't see the value in breaking backwards compatibility unless it adds to much to the final cost. Reply
inplainview - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkPeople who invested in FW drives can use Firewire over Thunderbolt when the adapter drops. Did you really miss that part? Reply
Freakie - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkThose who invested in firewire so heavily are usually Mac users and already have had a limited selection of devices to chose from compared to those rooted in USB which means there aren't many of them. Most people who are able to see an unpopular connection when it comes around were able to stay with USB/Ethernet and it's payed off just fine. If you want to make sure you aren't going to break backwards compatibility in the future again, then stick with USB 3.0. Thunderbolt wont gain all that much momentum, and the number of USB 3.0 ports on the rMBP shows that even Apple knows that it's not going far (not to mention they didn't exactly have much work to do since Intel made it possible for them... typically Apple laziness)
But seriously, it's either just bad luck (being a Mac user and not having a wide range of devices to chose from, and so your professional devices often used firewire) or lack of forsight that got you (or anyone else) in that position. Now that you have two choices for high speed interface, it should be easy to avoid it happening again. Reply
pmhparis - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkThe subject of this article is the non-retina MBP.
Where do you see that the FW port has been removed from the non-retina MBP? Reply
Death666Angel - Friday, July 20, 2012 - linkAnand did talk quite a bit about how he would like those connection (ethernet, FW) to be done with in the next MBP redesign. And he praised the rMBP for doing just that. So the reader is just expressing his opinion vs Anand's.
However, considering that there will be both ethernet and firewire adapters for thunderbolt, I see no reason to complain. Reply
Bonzauker - Wednesday, July 18, 2012 - linkDoes anyone have an idea why the external display still requires the discreet card? It's the main reason for noisy operations but, as far as I know, Intel 4000 should be able to handle it. Reply
Death666Angel - Friday, July 20, 2012 - linkMaybe some channel muxing issues/how the external port is connected to the CPU/GPU. Reply
sambamac - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkI've been thinking a lot about it. Ok, the retina is a fine screen. But I will go for the 2012 non retina non-glare 1650x1050, because I will put a 750 7200 rpm (only a additional 56$) and an extra 256 SSD for the system ( I will separate the system from the data ). When the 16GB Modules will be available I will upgrade the memory to 32Gb. I really work on an external monitor. 15" is just too small to do edit or retouch fotos. I really need the portable solution, because I travel a lot. And the possible 32Gb will help a lot to boost photoshop work based on dozens of layers. Reply
Freakie - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - link16GB modules wont ever come for DDR3 in the 204 pin form factor (laptop), so give your hopes up now. If you really want the best photoshop performance then you should be switching to a Windows laptop especially since it's easy to put 32GB on a Windows laptop, create a RAMdisk with a good chunk of that and then put your Photoshop Scratch Disk directory on it. (instant 5GB/s transfer rate on your scratch disk by using your RAM instead of a mechanical or solid state drive). Or if you are dead-set on using OSX then you can easily hackintosh OSX on the laptop and still have the more powerful hardware. Reply
sambamac - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkWhy you know that 16GB modules won't ever come? Is there a technical problem?
Yeah, it's a good idea with the Ram Disk....
thanks for input! Reply
Freakie - Friday, July 20, 2012 - linkYeah basically. RAM follows standards and what-not, which means the people who make the RAM have to follow certain guidelines if their want to be able to use the DDR3 label for the RAM. That way RAM is as compatible as possible. As it stands, the DDR3 standards don't really allow 16GB sticks for laptops because the sticks are too small. They can't do 3D stacking of the memory without being out of spec, to my knowledge. And most RAM is still manufactured on large processes like 48-60nm and so they can't just pack more in on the area they have. We probably wont see 16GB sticks for laptops until DDR4. Reply
sambamac - Friday, July 20, 2012 - linkOk, I see! Thank you for these explanations! Reply
arkweld - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkI just made the same decision. Anandtech opts for the rMBP because it's better value? Really? What a ludicrous statement.
For $2300 you get an MBP with hi-res, optical drive, ethernet, FireWire, more storage capacity, expandability and the exact same battery life, processor and RAM as the $2800 rMBP. A unit which has the only advantage of a arguably better display, negligible perfomance increase and a half-pound weight reduction. Anandtech opt to pay $500 more for less capability.
If you want an SSD to boost your performance you can add one to an MBP at any time in any capacity.
If the future is removing features for a screen of dubious value, then we are going backwards. Especially when you are paying $500 for the privilege. Reply
The0ne - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkYea, your consideration for the type of work you do is inadequate. You should be considering Windows laptop for this. You want both the CPU performance and the GPU to handle the 2D/3D side of things. Sure it may not be as light, or any other reasons but you get your work done fast and "easy". Not entirely sure on the easy word but meh :) Reply
sambamac - Friday, July 20, 2012 - linkAnd which system is adequate? Reply
jcannon1018 - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkAny ideas on how the lower end model would graphically compare to the high-end model? Running at native 1440x900 with Diablo 3, 512 vs 1gig, huge difference? Reply
Deepcover96 - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkI went back and forth on which one I would get. The Ethernet port almost pushed me towards the Pro, but the better display on the Air made up my mind. Like you said, The Air and the rMBP feel like the future. Reply
dwade123 - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkApple needs to redesign the 13" Pro. Get rid of optical drive, put in Quadcore, Retina, and at least a GT 640m. Reply
Airkol - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - link
I've got the Retina but but I want to make this thing rock. I need a fast 512GB drive. This samsung drive is a slug.
I see OWC just announced their upgrade for the MBA 2012. Any word on them having an upgrade fro the Retina? Reply
EnerJi - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkI was under the impression that Apple was now shipping pretty fast SSDs? So fast that most users (in most use cases) wouldn't be able to tell the difference between their SSD and a top-of-the-line model. Reply
Airkol - Friday, July 20, 2012 - linkOne of the drives used in the MBA is a Toshiba that uses the SandForce controller. That is pretty fast. The Retina uses Samsung based drives and they aren't as fast.
I went with the base model Retina and the 256GB drive. I'm betting that OWC will have a 480GB drive and an external case for the drive I pull out for less than the difference between the next model up with a 512Gb drive. Reply
Death666Angel - Friday, July 20, 2012 - linkhttp://www.anandtech.com/show/6005/apples-new-ssd-...
Depending on what you do with it, it's pretty fast. :D Reply
Paapaa125 - Saturday, July 21, 2012 - linkActually Samsung is the faster of the two AFAIK. It is essentially Samsung 830 SSD drive which is one of the fastest SSDs out there and very reliable. Still the best choice for almost all desktop users. You should feel lucky you got Samsung instead of Toshiba. Reply
dsumanik - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkC'mon Vivek, ethernet no longer relevant?
I concede that using a thunderbolt port for an adapter is an appropriate substitute, i mean what does it matter if you are plugging in a cable with a dongle on the end, vs a plain old rj45 connector.
But until wireless networking catches up with ethernet in the latency and STABILITY department, it will always be necessary.
Wireless technology developments seems to keep pushing bandwidth...i want consistent 1ms ping throughput and a 500 meter range without bandwidth/connection loss.
actually screw that, i want one nanosecond throughput...latency is the biggest holdup for all of us now, just like going from a mechanical HDD to a SSD drive, the difference on a wired vs wireless network is immediately noticeable....especially through apps like VNC or remote desktop.
Imagine if the entire north american internet infrastructure went wireless...lol. It would take 5 seconds just to ping this page and 30 seconds to load....after the third try.
Eventually, wireless has the potential and will likely replace wired networks...but today is not that day, id say at least 10 years. Reply
EnerJi - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkEveryone's needs are different. Is a wired connection objectively "better?" Yes. Is wireless considered "good enough" for the vast majority of people? Absolutely yes.
I've used Ethernet *maybe* three or four times in the past three years for troubleshooting purposes. Will I miss it if I were to get an rMBP? Hard to say for sure, but I'm leaning towards probably not. Reply
The0ne - Thursday, July 19, 2012 - linkI haven't even touch my ethernet port at all. I've traveled quite often overseas as well and still don't even have a need. That is because wi-fi is so abundant and easy to set up that ethernet is just not useful as it once was. Sure it can have it uses when troubleshooting, the only thing I can see myself using it for, but other than that wi-fi serves the 99% fine. Reply
zephxiii - Friday, July 20, 2012 - linkI definitely need this for large transfers to and from the server. Sure u can use an adapter...but i hate having to fumble with and carry around adapters.
An optical drive is nice for when u *need* to burn something, or access a disc. Granted i rarely use mine but i like being able to burn something when needed without being inconvenienced.
Seems like this *tool* has become less of a tool :( Reply
CalaverasGrande - Friday, July 20, 2012 - linkTwo things, it may sound silly but in the workplace we still need to use wired connections 9 out of ten times. It simply isnt feasible or desirable to have enterprise level wifi installed in all locations.
This, and the optical drive is still used as a handoff medium more often than thumb drives. There is a perception that thumb drives can carry viruses more than opticals. Of course they are both just as likely, but this does not change the perception.
As far as "the high price of Apple". If you compare Apple gear to business grade dell and HP the prices are almost identical.
And the bloatware on HP is much worse than the extras Apple gives you.
Me personally I went with a Mac Book Pro because I can always instantiate a VM of Win 7 or XP on my Mac. Much more difficult to go the hackintosh route. Reply
gochichi - Saturday, July 21, 2012 - linkI disagree that the most sensible reason to not get a rMBP is out of some theological conflict against soldered on memory.
And yes, I look at my laptop from 2010 and how affordable it has been to upgrade it to a 128GB SSD and 8GB of RAM and it makes me wonder just how well exactly is the rMBP going to age. Its aging is so important because it's an advanced prototype right now. It needs to age. But I don't think it'll age well from the resale value perspective. I also don't believe it is very usable on actual software.
Let's put it this way, when on the rMBP I would rather use TextEdit and have the text look properly than use Pages or Word. That's a problem, that's not Pro as in professional, that's pro as in prototype. You're holding the future, but not the present. I found it unusable for anything but elite ipad duty (or is it a chrome book... basically if you're on safari it's amazing) .
Now the way it runs say Starcraft 2. Wow, on high settings it looks beyond amazing but too low a frame rate.
I think the retina is just not ready for duty. I was excited to have it and sad to return it. I think if you're actually wanting to get something accomplished I would go with a 13 air or a 1680 by 1050 15" pro or a 17"pro (from 2011).
The rMBP is wonderful but its not the most utilitarian device this year. I'm waiting for 2013 myself. Waiting for software support? You gotta be kidding me. Reply
gochichi - Saturday, July 21, 2012 - linkrMBP. The future, and really depending on how much money you have and/or how comfortable you are with the hassle of selling your used equipment at a good price it's not wrong at all to get it. I would even say that $/$ it's a pretty high value proposition in the lineup. For instance compared to a 13" Air with 256GB SSD and 8GB of RAM...
The problem arises when you ask me yet again to upgrade all my software whether I want to or not. I've been a Mac user from PowerPC days, and interestingly enough the 15" Pro model laptop was the first Intel based Mac (just like this is the first Retina Mac). No matter how you got your software, it has a value, you're already good at using it and all that jazz and it is a big deal that the screen on the rMBP is basically emulating a compatible resolution on a ton of software. And much like Rosetta before, the emulation "works" but leaves a lot to be desired.
It's an amazing value, and if you're comfortable with being a guinea pig waiting who knows how long to wait for compatible software for who knows what price then its great.
In having returned it, it leaves me scratching my head for what to get instead. I have a lot of equipment but non of it is Mac. I've been toying around with 2011 MacBook Air (11" mind you) and I like using that more the rMBP because it runs everything natively and I can hook it up to my 27" Dell U2711 just fine. As I escalate the upgrade options and reach ever closer to the rMBP I hesitate. I don't think I should hesitate but I do. For the year is 2012 and if I'm going to spend a ton of money to get something done, for some end goal I guess. I think buying four shares of apple with the money and then selling those shares in 2013 would be a great way to go.
I completely understand how the rMBP is a fantastic product and a brilliant move for Apple. But things are changing, some critical things appear to be changing. For instance, the resale value of Mac equipment is fluctuating more than it has in the past. The closed, cellphone-like equipment is creating a cellphone-like frenzy and sudden disinterest. My interest in a 2010 AIr is slim indeed, while a 2010 MacBook Pro with an SSD is still desirable.
No Mac for me in 2012? I think this may be the answer for me. I passed up a used 2011 13" Air for $850 because "it wasn't good enough" and now I'm punching my throat about it. I also passed up a used 2011 11" Air with 256GB SSD for the same price. Why? Because I had to have the rMBP. Just to realize that even though the thermal/noise characteristics are amazing, the battery life also, everything is emulated through it. And it's not so easy to find a fantastic case for it either (it will be in 2013...) which is what you need when you have a $2,000 iPad/portable iMac without a screen. It has unique features, and I'm hardly the wealthiest guy on these forums so your mileage may vary.
Also worth noting is that wealth is a huge thing in determining whether ANY 15" Pro is for you. (Enthusiasm goes a long way too, like in my case). So back to the wealth thing... my point is that a lot of the people justifying a $2,000 laptop are simply well off in their careers and likely in their 40's or 50's at which point I'm not sure the retina offers much value compared to the sheer brightness of the standard 15" (The low-res one at that). This may also be a mute point because those same eyes may not experience the level of frustration that I experienced while watching poorly emulated resolutions on the rMBP.
I wanted a work horse, and in so many ways it's just an unsatisfying time to purchase. If unlike me you already have a Mac and a work horse, hold on to it for ten more months.
Final comment on software. So you have say Office 2011... worth $100-$300 depending on who you ask. You have CS 5.5... you have all this stuff already, YOU should determine when you want to upgrade and not your hardware. Your hardware is at the service of your software.
Last but not least, Windows 8 handled the rMBP display like a Pro. It also ran hot on Windows, but if Mac OS would handle the display Windows 8 does, I'd be too busy to tell you about how happy I was. Windows 8 isn't even out officially, so buying a $2k laptop on the promise that Windows 8 runs it well, seems impatient of me. And it doesn't fit the primary bullet point that I had when I set sail on all of this: To have a Mac on my technology repertoire.
Oh nice firefighter selling your 2011 13" Air for $850... where are you now?
Peace out. Hope this rambling helped (it's all I was trying to do). Reply
LuckyKnight - Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - linkIf ASUS can offer a nvidia GPU in their 13", come on Apple get with it :) I would love something portable as a 13" that can play games. Reply
Les Likely - Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - linkThe 15.4" matte display is really nice but I'm dismayed to discover that the hardware is not capable of booting into Mac OS X 10.6.8 from either an internal or external HDD partition.
I suffered with Mac OS X Lion for a year - definitely an unstable dog of a cat. Result: I still don't trust Mountain Lion. And now we have a crippled generation of hardware, to add injury to insult - but there's no way to rig a safety-net.
Disgusting! Reply
thecuber - Monday, August 06, 2012 - linkHow much difference in performance would the extra 512 MB on the GPU cause?
It's the only thing holding me back from buying the MBP15 Reply
thecuber - Monday, August 06, 2012 - linkHow much of a differenece would the extra 512MB memory on the GPU make? Reply
thecuber - Monday, August 06, 2012 - linkHow much of a difference does the 512 MB in vRAM make a difference. It's the only thing holding me back from buying a MBP15. Reply
Systembolaget - Sunday, September 02, 2012 - linkI'm much in favour of the reviews that show that the Retina MBP is not there yet and especially so under Windows, and on the other hand, the non-Retina MBPs are getting old. But, if you're into 3D CAD, rendering and FEM/CFD, what choice do you have now?
These all have the same processors and are roughly in the same price bracket. The Apple is ageing and has no IPS panel. The Dell is plasticky and has no IPS panel. The Lenovo lost its fantastic keyboard and now proffers a terrible screen. The HP has a decent IPS panel, but is the most expensive. At the moment, it looks like one can only buy the wrong machine...
- Apple MacBook Pro
i7-3720QM quad-core 2,6 GHz 6 MB L3 cache
8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 SDRAM
750 GB SATA 6 GB/s 7200 RPM
1680 x 1050 NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M 1 GB GDDR5
2.379,00 €
- Dell Precision M4700
i7-3720QM quad-core 2,6 GHz 6 MB L3 cache
16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 SDRAM
750 GB SATA 6 GB/s 7200 RPM
1920 x 1080 AMD FirePro M4000 Mobility Pro 1 GB GDDR5
2.482,00 €
- Lenovo ThinkPad W530
i7-3720QM quad-core 2,6 GHz 6 MB L3 cache
16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 SDRAM
500 GB SATA 6 GB/s 7200 RPM
1920 x 1080 NVIDIA Quadro K2000M 2 GB GDDR3
2.151,42 €
- HP Elitebook 8560w
i7-3720QM quad-core 2,5 GHz 8 MB L3 cache
8 GB 1333 MHz DDR3 SDRAM
750 GB SATA 3 GB/s 7200 RPM
1920 x 1080 NVIDIA Quadro 2000M 2 GB GDDR3
2.840,53 € Reply
1andrew - Friday, October 12, 2012 - linkGreat review by Vivek, but I have to disagree with him. I returned my MacBook Pro with Retina display for refurbished the 2012 MacBook Pro.
The MacBook Pro with Retina display simply isn't ready yet. Vivek does say that it will take roughly 1 release cycle for software to catch up with the new display, but he doesn't emphasize this enough. As a student, I use Microsoft Work for hours a day. The blurry pixillated text strained my eyes and drove me insane (although Microsoft finally fixed that last week)
I also enjoy playing games on my laptop. Install Windows via Bootcamp turned into a nightmare The bootcamp install kept failing to make a bootable USB drive, and without a DVD drive it was my only option. I eventually switched over to Windows computer to make the bootable USB drive. Furthermore, Windows 7 hasn't been upgraded for the retina display even with the 150% DPI scaling many of the user elements are too small. Finally, the MacBook Pro isn't fast enough to run most games at full resolution.
The MacBook Pro with Retina display amazed. I loved the thinner form factor, but as my only computer I need a DVD drive. Life without ethernet was miserable. If only Apple included a Thunderbolt to Ethernet adapter or an external DVD drive.
Simply put, there those of us who need a fully fledged laptop. Reply
mjh483 - Sunday, February 17, 2013 - linkThe real advantage of normal MBP is that it has much more spacious storage. Reply
rich42 - Saturday, February 11, 2017 - linkHello , i am planning since some time to buy a 2012 MBP 15 with Hi-Res Display. Got since few days a 2006 Macbook Pro 15 inch and am quite shocked at how miserable the sound output is when compared to my Powerbook G4 15 1,67 - - hopefully the sound is better on the late 2012 - - could anyone confirm this or is it just this poor Intel Audio as in the 2006 MBP? thanks for this great site!
Cheers Reply


text:
H67 – A Triumvirate of Tantalizing Technologyby Ian Cutress on 3/27/2011 6:25 PM EST
- Posted in
- Motherboards
- Sandy Bridge
56 Comments
Back to Article
james.jwb - Sunday, March 27, 2011 - link"However, I remember the time when I was a scrimping student. I wanted high gaming performance at the lowest cost – if Sandy Bridge was out then, and I was specifically after the Sandy Bridge platform over anything AMD, then a H67 with an i3-2100 and the biggest graphics card I could afford would be a viable option."
When I was in this position, i'd go for the cheapest CPU and overclock it so it was faster than anything on the market. I'd be surprised if this wasn't the norm for people on a tight budget. Reply
IanCutress - Sunday, March 27, 2011 - linkMy argument mainly for my comment is that the CPU is becoming less of a factor for gaming, thus shifting the focus away from a CPU OC to a large GPU. It used to be the case that the CPU made a large difference as well, but it my mind it's not that much of an issue with a strong default CPU speed and cores available. Nevertheless, the AMD + cheap tri/quad core is on the other side of the coin.
Ian Reply
slickr - Monday, March 28, 2011 - linkIntel mobos are crap. Only for overclocking and only for graphics, where is the middle?
And they are too expensive, hopefully AMD wipes the floor with them with their new Buldozer platform. Reply
Jeffs0418 - Sunday, May 22, 2016 - linkHere we are 5 years later and...Y'know I was ready to move on from my Athlon 64 x2 5000+/AM2 platform(which I liked but was marginal for modern gaming). I was stoked for a nice capable FX4100/Bulldozer platform. But after reading disappointing reviews I ended up with a Core i3 2120/Sandy Bridge and a H61 mobo. Currently running a Core i5 2500(non-k) massaged a bit to 3.9GHz on all cores with aftermarket cooling on P67 mobo. Never have used Intel integrated graphics so I couldn't care less about that. But I am glad I didn't go with Bulldozer and am comfortable enough with my current setup even now that I'm in no hurry to upgrade. Reply
omelet - Sunday, March 27, 2011 - linkWouldn't someone wanting SB gaming on a budget be more likely to want an H61? You can get such a board from ASRock for like 60 bucks. That's $60 more you'd be able to spend on the GPU, and you'd still have every feature you need. The only real performance difference is that there's no SATA 6Gbps, but budget gamers don't have drives that need that anyway. Reply
yzkbug - Sunday, March 27, 2011 - linkTotally agree. I'm looking for a good, reliable, budget-priced motherboard for my new HTPC. Would love to see a comparison review of H61 motherboards, especially the power comparison numbers. Reply
Taft12 - Sunday, March 27, 2011 - linkI'd need to know at what point the 6 PCIE lanes on H61 begins to get in the way of the GPUs performance. Someone will surely do the testing to show us in the near future. Noticeable on, say, a 6850? Or do we need a much higher-end GPU for a bottlenect? Reply
DanNeely - Sunday, March 27, 2011 - linkThe GPU would still be running on the 16 lanes from the CPU. You just have 2 less lanes for 2ndary slots and onboard devices. I don't think it's likely to be an issue except in that you're much less likely to get a second x4 slot (1/11 vs 6/16 on newegg), and the 1 H61 board that does it has legacy PCI slots for the other 2 spaces, while 5/6 H67 boards have at least 1 1x slot as well. Reply
omelet - Sunday, March 27, 2011 - linkThis is very confusing. All the boards claim to have x16 slots, but they can't possibly run at x16 if none of the boards on the table even have 16 lanes. A P67 running two cards would have to run each at 4x, or even lower if there are any x1 slots on the board (as there are on most boards).
It might be explained as being an x16 slot running at a lower speed, except for the fact that P67 and P55 both specify that they can run two cards at x8/x8, which can only mean that they run the x16 slots at 8 lanes each when you have two cards plugged in. That should also be impossible according to the table.
Other sources I've found on the internet seem to imply that the x16 slot on the H61 runs at full x16 speed. I think perhaps we just need some clarification on what the values on the table here mean. Reply
ajp_anton - Sunday, March 27, 2011 - linkThere are two sources for PCIe lanes. The CPUs all have x16 (only for graphics), the rest (what is shown in the table) come from the motherboard chip (H67 etc). Reply
Roland00Address - Monday, March 28, 2011 - linkNo ahci means no trim for SSDs. Just pointing this out for while a gamer on a budget may not care about this feature, people who want a quicker machine for everday use or htpc and thus want a SSD would be better suited with H67. Reply
casteve - Monday, March 28, 2011 - linkThe H61 might not support AHCI...but TRIM can work in IDE mode. Reply
yzkbug - Sunday, March 27, 2011 - linkAny news on when Z68 is coming out? Reply
DominionSeraph - Sunday, March 27, 2011 - linkAny scrimping student with half a brain is going to get a console with a Gamefly subscription rather than blow $900 on a retarded i3 gaymen rig.
With a PC you're stuck shelling out $60 apiece for unfinished tech demos and bad ports, only to be playing alone in your room. But you get 3 or 4 consoles on a floor and suddenly you have a glut of party-friendly games passing around.
$900 PC + $900 for 15 games, or $250 in console + extra controller, spending $350 for a couple games and a yearly subscription that gives 2/mo, plus borrowing is free, on a system that actually gives you the college experience? (Doesn't count the price of TV, but you're probably gonna have one of those anyway.)
And yes, it is $900+ for PC.
$680 for i3 2100/GTX 560/4GB/500GB
$150 for any monitor worth having
$60 for a decent mouse and keyboard.
$35 for student copy of Win7. Reply
Dookie11 - Sunday, March 27, 2011 - linkSorry about being poor and not being afford both. Reply
DominionSeraph - Sunday, March 27, 2011 - linkYou don't have to apologize. Reply
bigboxes - Sunday, March 27, 2011 - linkSorry to interrupt your flaming post, but if you think that console parties are not nerdy than you are still a virgin. I suggest you sell your gamer gear and get on with the real "college experience" that you are so in need of. Reply
omelet - Sunday, March 27, 2011 - linkMost people interested in PC gaming already have desktop computers at home, so you shouldn't include the cost of a monitor, hard drive, mouse, keyboard, speakers, operating system, or case in the cost of upgrading it to low tier gaming-capable. Also, while the i3 is not what a poorman gamer is going to get, let's assume it is for the sake of conversation on this article. You can get an i3 2100, an H61 motherboard, a GTX 460 768MB, and 4GB of DDR3 1333 RAM for $375 including shipping. I'm not counting the $45 in rebates, either, so that probably also covers the cost of a sufficient PSU over a generic 300W one. The build listed above is going to give significantly better performance than a 360 or PS3 at the resolutions the consoles put out. If you need the bigger screen, you can use the TV as a monitor. Plus you get to play games with a mouse and keyboard (or with a controller if that's your thing).
There are plenty of games that are on PC and not on consoles. SC2, Civ5, and the vast majority of MMOs are among these titles. A lot of awesome older games, too, which don't even require modern gaming-tier hardware to run well. It's also true that consoles have a lot of games that aren't on PC, and the group gaming experience is different, but there are advantages to both types of gaming and the cost of entry into PC gaming is not at all as high as you're suggesting.
The effective cost of entry into PC gaming is really low for those people who need powerful computers for other reasons, or those who play older games or play on lower resolutions and graphics settings. It's also lower than I suggested for average Joe Blow, since he'd probably go with an AMD build that's ~$60 less expensive than the H61/i3 build. Reply
Zoomer - Monday, March 28, 2011 - linkQuite the opposite, lol. It is definitely cheaper to stick with PC. Besides, there aren't very many games that are well suited for the console's HID. Reply
AssBall - Monday, March 28, 2011 - linkNot to mention how awesome an experience typing out and printing reports and presentations, running or coding technical software, checking mail or IMs, and browsing notes, whole classes, research, or entertainment on the internet on an XBOX is..... /sarcasm
You should have a computer for college anyway, a cheap gaming rig is the way to go, the console is just an expensive toy. Reply
DominionSeraph - Monday, March 28, 2011 - linkDid you know that the laptop that is a college student's constant campus accessory is.. get this.. a computer?
This isn't 1980. A laptop's a given either way. Reply
Wilberwind - Sunday, March 27, 2011 - linkoh noes...that Console vs. PC debate again...Consoles are great for playing with friends. I have both, but If you're using a PC for work and internet, why not just spend a little more and make it into a cheap gaming rig? Reply
dingetje - Sunday, March 27, 2011 - linkconsoles are great...for retarded kids Reply
silverblue - Monday, March 28, 2011 - linkJust because someone chooses to play games on a console, doesn't make them retarded. You spent more money for a machine that will be utilised far less than theirs and doesn't lend itself as well to communal entertainment, but I'm not going to judge you or anyone else for whatever gaming option they've opted for. Reply
silverblue - Monday, March 28, 2011 - link"utilised" i.e. the developers will generally program consoles to their strengths, whereas you have to hope the developers pay even half the attention to even one component in yours, be it CPU or GPU. Nothing's perfect, however for all the downsides of having a locked system, the ability to develop for only one or two permutations of hardware allows a studio to work at ekeing out every last amount of power from a supposedly limited machine. Reply
Voldenuit - Sunday, March 27, 2011 - linkIntel's hare-brained chipset segmentation strategies = failsauce. Reply
Taft12 - Monday, March 28, 2011 - link... and don't forget -- preventing others from producing competing chipsets = monopolyabusesauce Reply
mariush - Sunday, March 27, 2011 - linkPage 8:
Along the bottom are a plethora of USB headers, but no fan headers. In fact, this board is somewhat lacking USB headers – there is one for the CPU, which is oddly south of the CPU socket, and another next to the SATA ports. Trying to fit a Corsair H50 required some deft placing of the cooler or a fan extension lead, and the second fan required a 3-pin to molex connector.
Surely you mean "this board is somewhat lacking FAN headers", or it doesn't really make sense Reply
KaarlisK - Sunday, March 27, 2011 - linkDoes the power consumption at idle increase when overclocking the GPU?
If the overclock affects the turbo frequency, it should not change. If the overclock changes the base frequency, I have no idea. Reply
Concillian - Monday, March 28, 2011 - linkI really do not understand Intel's target with the H67.
H61 is for the budget person + single GPU
P67 is for the overclocker with plenty of money to donate on a motherboard almost $!00 more expensive plus a CPU that has a price adder as well.
H67 is for the IGP overclocker? Wha?
The review is fine, but the products reviewed have no real target market in my mind. It's a marketing stunt that I'm surprised Anandtech didn't call them on by including an H61 motherboard here and pointing out that the real value, if there is one in this Intel generation, is H61. Reply
bupkus - Monday, March 28, 2011 - linkAgreed. The i3-2100 is a true budget cpu, imho. It should be matched with a true budget mobo-- namely the H61. I hope to see some more info on boards made with that chipset. Reply
Taft12 - Monday, March 28, 2011 - linkIt's not accurate to call the i3-2100 a "true budget CPU" while we've got stuff like the Athlon II X2 and Pentium E5xxx on the market. Reply
cjs150 - Monday, March 28, 2011 - linkI am pleased you said this, because this is something I do not understand either, H67 looks to be a waste of time
ASrock seems the best of this silly catagory. I have one of their boards in a file server, nice board, just works without fuss. Perfect for a server. May look at them for next build, instead of my usual ASUS fetish.
One thing though that really bugs me. Why on all the Micro-ATX boards out there do they insist on having the top PCI-E so close to the bottom end of the memory sockets. Have the MB manufacturers not noticed that high end memory is shipping with cooling fans? Several times I have found it impossible to fit a graphics card and the memory fan, virtually every time at the very least I have to ensure that there are no possible shorts by putting electricians tape around the bottom of the memory fan clup on. MB manufacturers it is not difficult, move the PCI-E slot down by 5mm or the memory sokets up by 5mm Reply
bigboxes - Monday, March 28, 2011 - linkNot a bash, but fans on DDR3 ram is mostly frivolous waste. Heck, most ram today doesn't even need fancy heatspreaders because they run so cool. This is about the H67 chipset so I don't think many would waste time/money on buying high end memory that offers little in the terms of performance. Don't worry, Z68 is coming soon and you'll be able to buy your full ATX board that you can load up with the latest and greatest in parts to get that XTREME o/c. This chipset is not marketed for you. Reply
ArtShapiro - Monday, March 28, 2011 - linkI'd like to think that I (a decided non-gamer) am the target audience.
I currently have a physically large (huge?) desktop system in a Chenboro 105 case. No way this monster can fit in the alcove in my computer desk, so it sits on the floor with the usual scads of cables coming from the desk. What a royal pain to move, clean, etc.
I suspect this summer I'll have an H67 system in a tiny (maybe Antec 300-150) case, little bigger than my tiny Asus TS mini Windows Home Server machine. With no graphic card, this thing should be efficient and dwarf the performance of the existing monster.
The H67 setup fits my needs to an alarming degree!
Art Reply
Concillian - Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - link
I suspect this summer I'll have an H67 system in a tiny (maybe Antec 300-150) case, little bigger than my tiny Asus TS mini Windows Home Server machine. With no graphic card, this thing should be efficient and dwarf the performance of the existing monster.
The H67 setup fits my needs to an alarming degree!
What about this system cannot be handled by a significantly cheaper H61 motherboard? I missed that part of why H67 was perfect. Reply
Taft12 - Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - linkHe's not a gamer, but maybe he wants the SATA 6Gbit ports? 4 memory slots? USB 3.0?
H61 boards are lacking, well, a lot if you're want anything beyond ultra-entry-level. Reply
ArtShapiro - Wednesday, March 30, 2011 - linkPure power. The cost is irrelevant (within reason); the increased processor of, say, the 2500/2500K will be a nice thing in processor-heavy applications and will probably ensure a longer relevant lifetime for the machine.
I figure it's worth it to shell out a little more upfront for the H67.
Art Reply
bobbyto34 - Monday, March 28, 2011 - linkThanks a lot for testing DPC Latency. This can be a major issue for DAW's users. Reply
Spoelie - Monday, March 28, 2011 - linkI would concede that an integrated GPU is a very valuable tool for any computer user. It can be used to eliminate variables when troubleshooting a system, and to prevent downtime when the discrete GPU passes away. For this reason and this reason alone I personally don't buy a system without an integrated GPU anymore, even though I always have discrete GPUs. At least in 2 cases this has helped me tremendously.
My personal preference is a cheap but good overclocking mATX board with (support for) iGPU & at least 1 eSATA port. Couldn't care less about SLI/XFire & RAID5, so the 785+SB710 board I now use was perfect, but without USB3 and SATA6 it's starting to show its age. One of the reasons I haven't switched to SNB is that Intel can't provide me that platform yet.
Here's to hoping for cheap mATX Z68 and cheap(er) K series CPUs. Reply
bigboxes - Monday, March 28, 2011 - linkThat's why I always have a spare video card for just such an emergency. Since my motherboards tend to be on the higher end they don't have video out anyways. I wouldn't want the mfg to take away other ports just to include video out. It makes sense on HTPC applications as well as low end or micro-ATX boxes where utility is the priority. I just buy a cheap card that is $30 after rebate and leave it in the box until I need it for troubleshooting or in case of emergency. Reply
rustycurse - Monday, March 28, 2011 - linkon page 1:
"The same question ultimately applies to the Sandy Bridge chipsets – why only allow CPU overclocking on P67 (and Z68 in the future)? "
I was always thought that term 'Sandy Bridge' is applied to CPU technology and 'Cougar point' to the chipset or am I wrong?
...but about shown mobos ... neither of them suit my tasks. I won't buy it Reply
crispbp04 - Monday, March 28, 2011 - link"The ECS H67H2-M is a few serious check points against it as a board to use."
is or has? Reply
WasabiVengeance - Monday, March 28, 2011 - linkQuick question: How many of those vid outputs can the board actually use simultaneously? Previously intel chipsets were limited to 2. Reply
Shadowmaster625 - Monday, March 28, 2011 - link"However, I remember the time when I was a scrimping student. I wanted high gaming performance at the lowest cost – if Sandy Bridge was out then, and I was specifically after the Sandy Bridge platform over anything AMD, then a H67 with an i3-2100 and the biggest graphics card I could afford would be a viable option."
That would be a huge waste of money. Why buy an i3-2100 if you're just going to plug in a gpu anyway? And why buy an H67 when it clearly costs $50 beyond what it should, especially since it has no northbridge.
An ASRock M3A770DE motherboard AND an Athlon X3 cpu together costs the same as one of these H67 scams. Not to mention the $125 for the intel cpu. No way. If I needed more cpu performance I would get the Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition and still have an extra $50 that could go into a better gpu. Reply
DaveSimmons - Monday, March 28, 2011 - linkFor budget gaming, H61 seems the better choice by far, with motherboards in the $60-65 range, At that price the price advantage of AMD budget CPUs go away (at stock speed anyway) and the intel HSF is quieter than stock AMD HSF from what I've read.
SilentPCReview compared Intel Core i3-2100 vs. AMD Phenom II X2 565 and the intel won on both performance and power use. Spend a bit more for an i5 and you'll have a solid midrange gaming system.at a budget price. Reply
ritchan - Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - link"With H67 and its no overclocking rule, the market that wants a cheaper board can get that cheaper board."
Yet these reviewed boards are still on average more expensive than an AMD board in an equivalent market segment. Which support overclocking and core unlocking. Also, bargain bin motherboards haven't been known for their overclocking prowess, i.e. the power window argument doesn't hold. If you're buying cheap, you get that power window anyway.
Also notice how the cheaper AMD boards like the 870-UD3R or MSI's boards come with absolutely no heatsinks on the VRMs. Bye bye, power window argument.
Stop trying to justify negative market segmentation. The H67/P67 split is a step back from where things were before, and it only gives Intel a good excuse to charge extra for overclocking enabled chipsets in the future. Wait, they're already doing that... and you're sugarcoating it for them. Reply
glad2meetu - Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - linkI think Intel has done a very poor job with the Sandy Bridge release. Intel appears like it is lost in the woods these days and needs a new CEO.
I think I would choose a ASUS or a Gigabyte motherboard if I had to pick one for Sandy Bridge. I am surprised how poor the Intel chipsets are. Intel inside no longer means anything special. Reply
strikeback03 - Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - linkThe CPUs are special. The rest of the platform, not so much. If Z68 had been included at launch, and all 6 series chipsets had included USB3 and all SATA ports 6Gbps (not just 2) then I would have a different opinion. Reply
strikeback03 - Tuesday, March 29, 2011 - linkIs a cooling fan for RAM really necessary on a platform that allows essentially no overclocking and has relatively fixed memory settings?
Also, Intel advertising these CPUs as having a certain multiplier in single-threaded mode then not letting the motherboards use that multiplier is a load of bull. Reply
MrSpadge - Wednesday, March 30, 2011 - linkWell done, Gigabyte! And it's a shame how poorly the others are doing in comparison. I fI wanted high power consumption I could just stick with an old machine or get an AMD..
Not wanting to start a bashing / flame war. It's just that in my eyes the exceptional power consumption (especially idle) of the Sandy Bridge + IGP (plus excellent performance) is what makes it really attractive for really many roles.
MrS Reply
trogthefirst - Thursday, March 31, 2011 - linkActually i was torn between H67/61 and one of those 785G/880G platforms for my aunt recently - non gaming build In the end she needed multi display scalable to possibly 3-4 displays so i went with a cheapo 880G and an $70ish AthlonII X3 With the Surround View feature you could run, with a Radeon GPU up to 4 displays (2 from integrated graphics) and 2 off something like a passively cooled HD 4350/5450 Sounds like a lot of expansion, features, etc for such a cheap platform if u ask me! Reply
loimlo - Thursday, March 31, 2011 - linkDear Ian
Would you like to share us with Power cumsumption measurement detail?
1. Is it DC or AC draws?
2. How do you measure the watts? From the wall plug by using Kill-a-watt?
3. Did you give not so useful MB's energy-efficiency software like ASRock IES, Gigabyte Energy Saver?
That said, I never had good experience with these softwares, especially Gigabyte one. Reply
ShadowVlican - Thursday, April 07, 2011 - linkdid you guys measure total system power consumption, or is that just motherboard? looking to build a HTPC, would love something modern and doesn't eat power Reply
tpk911 - Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - linkIntel to release Z68 chipsets in first half of May
Monica Chen, Taipei; Steve Shen, DIGITIMES [Wednesday 20 April 2011]
Intel will release its Z68 chipsets in the first half of May, with Gigabyte Technology likely to be the first major motherboard maker to launch Z68-based products as soon as its embargo expires. Gigabyte's offerings will include its top-end GA-Z68X-UD7-B3 model.
Motherboard makers have also reportedly been informed that Intel will focus more on its Z- and H-series chipsets.
The share of P67-series motherboards will begin dropping once the Z68 is launched and the segment will gradually be phased out, with the P-series not being included in Intel's next generation chipsets.
...just a quick update, if I may :) Reply
gsuburban - Sunday, February 12, 2012 - linkI wanted to upgrade from an Asus P5 series board and found most of the P8 boards had no floppy or ide (pata) interface on them. Since I still have 2 great BenQ 1655 DVD recorders, they wouldn't be usable without buying a PCI PATA card. After looking matters over I didn't see much benefit in using up 2 of 6 SATA ports since I have at least 4 hard drives and would be limited on SATA ports etc.
I thought it over and discovered the P8H67-V and P8H67-M Pro by Asus still had the ide interface on board. No floppy but at least the IDE was there which would yield 6 SATA ports available without using them for the DVD-Optical.
I use XP Pro still since it does have it's advantages in some areas and not having the floppy drive is the pits as you can't load AHCI drivers via the F6 prompt in setup. I tried all sorts of ideas such as a custom image that included the AHCI drivers etc without success.
The P67 boards are totally fine and they run fast with the right CPU and memory but they are best used with Windows 7. The H67 boards save you about $250 since you don't need a video card, the boards are less than the P67's and with the select models, you get an IDE port which also frees up 2 SATA ports for those who still have IDE devices.
H67 would be my choice for high performance every day computing since the graphics are much improved from the days of G series and price is low, around $105.
I think it's too soon to eliminate the floppy and IDE interface at any rate. Reply

subset: commoncrawl


text:
I'm trying to making yixing teapots...
Posted 20 May 2013 - 01:23 PM
I'm trying something new today.
This is the biggest one I've made too.
Posted 20 May 2013 - 06:33 PM
Very nice bottom on the pot. I also liked the handle, even though you did not, it looked like a regal lion.
New handle, new spout. Complete!
I really like this ligher clay!
What should I work on next?
Saying hello and goodbye today... may they be better teapots in their next lives...
Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:29 AM
Hi! I'm basically a person who is obsessed with tea... and this has lead me to try and make my own yixing teapots. I've been posting att "'wetcanvas" but no one there really cares... so I thought I'd try a new forum!
my first efforts were sad:
But, then I watched some videos and started to get the steps...
Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:32 AM
1 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users


text: Join the Community! Creating your account only takes a few minutes. Join Now Sunday, 15 January 2017 Hawaii, USA Event WebsiteRead More In the Community Test your wits and sharpen your skills. Take the Challenge » GENERAL IT SECURITY Likely Scam Phone Call from "Microsoft Support" SOFTWARE Do you expect free software to be as good as paid? BEST PRACTICES Mice chewing everything. Employer won't consider pest control. What... TEST YOUR SMARTS Which of the following retains the information it's storing when the system power is turned off? GPU RAM CPU ROM Submit » 88% of IT pros got this right. Challenge × Join Now or connect with Connect with Facebook LinkedIn Already have an account? Log in By creating an account, you're agreeing to our Terms of Use and our Privacy Policy. Back I agree There are no replies yet! Help out your fellow IT pro with a response. Know someone who can help? Invite them to join the conversation. Oops, something's wrong below. Text Quote Post | Replace Attachment Add link Text to display: Where should this link go? Add Cancel Insert code Language Apache AppleScript Awk BASH Batchfile C C++ C# CSS ERB HTML Java JavaScript Lua ObjectiveC PHP Perl Text Powershell Python R Ruby Sass Scala SQL VB.net Vimscript XML YAML Insert Cancel Follow this vendor page Reply


text:
Man issued 2 summonses after bringing gun to RIC
Citizen Staff Reports 10/09/12
A Disputanta, Va. man was cited at Richmond International Airport Oct. 8 after it was discovered that he had a .25-caliber handgun in his carry-on bag. TSA officers detected the gun as the man's carry-on baggage passed through the checkpoint metal detector.
TSA officials contacted the Capital Regional Airport Commission Police, who regularly patrol the airport. The police responded, confiscated the weapon and issued two summonses to the man related to state weapons charges. There was no impact to airport operations. The man, who was ticketed to fly to Atlanta, was able to continue on his flight.
Some weapons are permitted to be transported in checked baggage if properly packaged, but passengers should check with the airlines for proper procedures as well as checking into local laws before doing so.
Passengers can review the prohibited items list on the TSA homepage or they can download the free MyTSA application from the TSA homepage. The TSA web site and the MyTSA app have a "Can I Bring?" feature that allows users to type in items they plan to bring on a trip to get an explanation of TSA's security policies for the item, including whether the item can be taken in carry-on luggage through the security checkpoint, packed in checked baggage, both, or neither. The mobile app is available to download for free at http://www.tsa.gov/mobile.
Henrico promotional company changes name
Citizen Staff Reports 08/18/2017 BusinessGeneral News
Henrico-based brand merchandising company NewClients, Inc. has changed its name to Boost Promotional Branding.
The company is one of the nation's largest in the branded merchandise industry. Founded in 1981, its serves more than 5,000 clients – including many Fortune 500 companies – nationwide. > Read more.
Lidl competition offers shoppers chance to win NYC trip
Citizen Staff Reports 08/18/2017 BusinessGeneral News
Three Lidl shoppers will win trips to New York City to receive a first-look at the Esmara by Heidi Klum collection and attend an international runway event debuting the collection. The contest is open to residents of Virginia, North Carolina and South Carolina – the three states in which Lidl currently operates grocery stores. The chain opened two stores in Henrico County last month. > Read more.
Glen Allen advances in 14U Babe Ruth World Series
Citizen Staff Reports 08/16/2017 FeaturesGeneral News
The Glen Allen Babe Ruth Baseball League 14-year-old all-star team advanced to the single-elimination round of the 14-year-old World Series, which the Glen Allen Youth Athletic Association is hosting at RF&P Stadium in Glen Allen. > Read more.
Earnhardt gives Redskins a ride
Citizen Staff Reports 08/15/2017 FeaturesGeneral News
Dale Earnhardt Jr., driver of the Hendrick Motorsports No. 88, stopped at Richmond Raceway Aug. 8 in advance of the track's NASCAR weekend in September. He was joined by five players from the Washington Redskins, who were in town for the team's training camp, which concluded Aug. 14. The day in Richmond gave Earnhardt and the Redskins players an opportunity to see how the athletes compete in their respective sports. > Read more.
READ Center a finalist for $25k grant
Citizen Staff Reports 08/15/2017 General NewsNon-Profits
The READ Center is a top-200 cause finalist in State Farm's Neighborhood Assist program, making it eligible to earn a $25,000 grant to support adult literacy in the Richmond region. The 40 organizations from across the nation with the most votes will win grants.
The READ Center, based in Henrico, provides classroom instruction and one-to-one tutoring to adults with very low literacy. > Read more.
READ Center a finalist for $25k grant
Henrico County property transactions, Aug. 1-6
Glen Allen wins 2 of first 3 games at 14U Babe Ruth World Series
Filipino Festival draws thousands
Solar eclipse to impact region in one week
- More News
Print Edition
Aug. 17, 2017Current edition | Archive
Registration begins Saturday for Henrico Recreation & Parks fall classes
Weekend Top 10
Weekend Top 10
CAT Theatre to host Red Eye 10s International Play Festival
Restaurant Watch
- More Entertainment
Obituary - Dorothy M. Wade
Obituary – Mark Leon Thompson, Jr.
Obituary – James Douglas Shaffer
- More Obituaries
National Night Out events planned tomorrow
Glen Allen woman raising companion dog
Guided tour of Malvern Hill planned as part of 'History at Sunset' series
- More Community
Growing a grown-up: Part II
How to grow an adult
Make 'em take the pledge: no more snuff boxes!
- More Opinions
SunTrust to sponsor raceways's military appreciation program
Code Lacrosse joins Richmond Strikers
5 Henrico student-athletes win scholarships at awards dinner
- More Sports
|August 2017
Place an Ad | More Classifieds
CalendarThe film "Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them" (PG-13) will play at 7 p.m. Aug. 4 and at 2 p.m. and 7 p.m. Aug. 5 at the Henrico Theatre, 305 E. Nine Mile Rd. Tickets are $1 and can be purchased at the door. Refreshments are $1 per item. For details, call 652-1460 or visit http://www.henricotheatre.us. Full text


text:
Photograph by F. Ponce
About the Project
Currently there are only eight recognized meteorite impact fields on Earth.
Geologist and NGS/Waitt grantee Rogelio Daniel Acevedo thinks he may have found the ninth.
Using satellite imagery, aerial photographs, and field information, Acevedo and fellow geologists Jorge Rabassa and Juan Federico Ponce have identified what they believe is the largest impact field in the Southern Hemisphere. Their examination of the site, in a remote area of Argentine Central Patagonia called Bajada del Diablo (Devil's Descent), suggests there could be a hundred enormous craters there, some measuring up to 1,600 feet (500 meters) across and 160 feet (50 meters) deep.
No meteorites have ever been found in the area. But Acevedo and his Patagonia Meteorite Impact Field Project team will travel to the region in October 2009 to do a detailed analysis of the site's geology for evidence of an impact.
For the initial phase of the project, the team will produce detailed cartography of the area and take systematic samplings in all craters and the non-impacted areas between them. The team will then study the impact structures and search for and analyze impacting rock fragments for geomorphology, stratigraphy, petrography, mineralogy, and geochemistry.
More NGS/Waitt Grants Projects
Explorers Journal
- Planting a New Shoreline: The Importance of Field Trips in Northwest Florida
- Solar Eclipse FAQ with National Geographic Expert Aurora Elmore
- Ideas Are Like Eggs: Once Hatched, They Have Wings
- Expanding Beyond Conventional Conservation to Save African Lions
- What 'Planet of the Apes' & Caesar Show Us About Our Own Evolution
- The Camargue: Wild West of France
- Everglades Restoration: Alterations of Downstream Biodiversity
- Exploring Everglades National Park by Kayak
- Bald Eagle Celebrated by National Geographic Photo Ark for Independence Day
- Paddleboarding with Polar Bears & Contributing to Conservation
Out of Eden Walk
Where will Paul Salopek walk on his seven-year adventure? Find out as he updates us from the field.
Feed the World
National Geographic explores how we can feed the growing population without overwhelming the planet in our food series.
Listen: Explorer Interviews
Listen to Nat Geo Explorer Interviews
Fascinating Conversations From Our Weekly Radio Show—Nat Geo Weekend
00:11:00 Bob Ballard
Boyd heads out of the studio to join National Geographic Explorer-in-Residence Bob Ballard aboard his vessel the E/V Nautilus. Currently in Turkey, Ballard tells Boyd about the many shipwrecks he is finding in the Mediterranean. You can follow Ballard and his team, live as they explore the ocean at www.nautiluslive.org.
00:06:00 Valerie Clark
National Geographic grantee Valerie Clark licks frogs for a living. As Clark tells Boyd, she's not looking for Prince Charming. Instead, she is studying how the diet of frogs in Madagascar relates to the toxicity of their skin.
00:11:00 Lee Berger Audio
National Geographic grantee and paleoanthropologist Lee Berger has been searching for the fossils of human ancestors, but it was his 9-year-old son who stumbled upon the find of a lifetime: a partial skeleton that may very well change our understanding of the genus Homo.
00:07:59 Brad Norman
Some go swimming with dolphins or stingrays, Brad Norman, National Geographic Emerging Explorer and marine conservationist, talks about swimming with the largest fish in the world: the whale shark. Norman speaks with Boyd about his research concerning whale shark habitats, tracking and conservation.
00:11:00 Losang Rabgey
National Geographic Emerging Explorer Losang Rabgey has found her life's work in strengthening rural communities on the Tibetan plateau, which includes building schools to educate local students. Rabgey joins Boyd with updates on the successful work of Machik, the non-profit she founded and now directs.
00:11:00 Dereck and Beverly Joubert
National Geographic Explorers-in-Residence Dereck and Beverly Joubert capture astounding images of African wildlife in their beautiful films. The Jouberts live in the African bush alongside the lions and other animals they profile. They explain to Boyd that, because big cats are in such danger, their work is now focused on conservation projects such as the Cause an Uproar program.
00:11:00 Nathan Wolfe
National Geographic Emerging Explorer and virus hunter Nathan Wolfe says there is a disease pandemic lurking just around the corner. But, we can prepare ourselves. Wolfe says there are even ways to harness and use the power of viruses. Wolfe joins Boyd to talk about his new book, The Viral Storm: The Dawn of a New Pandemic Age, which is changing the way we think about viruses.
00:09:00 Joshua Ponte Audio
National Geographic Emerging Explorer Joshua Ponte was a successful young English entrepreneur when, over breakfast one morning, his eye fell on a newspaper ad that said "Gorilla Reintroduction Program, Gabon." His life has never been the same since. Pursuing his passion for conservation, Ponte moved to a central African forest where 13 orphaned gorillas were being studied. Boyd talks with Ponte about the joys and dangers of raising young gorillas.
00:11:00 Wade Davis
How did the death and destruction of World War One lead young British climbers to attempt an epic conquest of Mount Everest? National Geographic Explorer in Residence Wade Davis answers that question in his new book "Into the Silence: The Great War, Mallory, and the Conquest of Everest." Davis joins Boyd in the studio to chat about the book.
00:11:00 Sylvia Earle
National Geographic Explorer in Residence Sylvia Earle has been deeper undersea than any other woman. Earle is an oceanographer, explorer, author, lecturer, field scientist, and an inspiration to women around the world. She recently received the Royal Geographic Society's 2011 Patron's Medal. Boyd talks to Earle about some of her early dives in the Jim Suit.
00:11:00 Gerlinde Kaltenbrunner(blurb here)
00:08:00 Bruce Bachand
Many people picture archaeology as the swashbuckling adventure portrayed in the Indiana Jones trilogy. But in reality, it can be much more tedious than discovering the Holy Grail and fighting Nazis. National Geographic grantee Bruce Bachand has been meticulously sewing a 3,000 bead necklace back together in Mexico after discovering a pre-Olmec burial site that housed a tribal chief and his wife, undisturbed for several centuries.
00:09:00 Catherine Jaffee
Turkey is famed for its honey, which is music to Boyd's ears—he has a notorious sweet tooth. He visited National Geographic grantee Cat Jaffee, a beekeeper who left her job in Washington, D.C. to make honey in rural Turkey. She says that bees harvest pollen from their surroundings: the best honey comes from bees with natural surroundings, large meadows, rather than urban environments. Most people, Jaffee says, eat honey that is basically a synthetic mix of sugars from all over the world.
00:09:00 Elizabeth Lindsey
Most of human history existed before the advent of GPS technologies that can pinpoint where we are at any time. National Geographic Fellow and ethnonavigation expert, Elizabeth Lindsey has taken it upon herself to understand what it was like for Polynesian explorers to colonize tiny, remote islands across the south Pacific Ocean. To better appreciate the skills it takes to study the clouds and winds in search of land, Lindsey plans to join a team of Polynesian women who are island-hopping using traditional methods: no GPS, no cellphones and no compass.
00:11:00 Lucy Cooke
Lucy Cooke