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The Galaxy Gear Preview: Samsung's First Wearableby Anand Lal Shimpi on 9/4/2013 10:33 PM EST
- Posted in
- Samsung
- Gadgets
- Wearables
- Galaxy Gear
79 Comments
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purerice - Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - linkIt took Microsoft 4 1/2 years to make Windows usable with Win.3
Maybe in 4 1/2 years these watches will be usable but right now it looks like something out of a B-movie spy flick except it costs $300 and at best gives 10 hours of battery life. Maybe for $200 and a 10 DAY battery life I could go for it.
Still, Anand, my critique of the device is no knock on you. Please keep reviewing them. I look forward to seeing them improve over the years. Reply
SunLord - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkWe'd need new batterysuper tech to have a 10day battery life with a color real screen and decent CPU in a tiny watch format. E-ink might do 10days but its unlikely Reply
Samus - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkWhat we don't need are color screens on our wrists. The whole purpose of this device is to make functions of your phone available without using your phone.
If you need a color screen, take your phone out of your pocket.
The addition of a camera is nice, but the resolution is kind of a joke. Why wouldn't you use the 8-13MP camera in your pocket and not regret taking that awesome picture with a crappy lens at low-res?
I'd say the only compelling thing this watch has over the pebble is voice functionality. Other than that, it costs 3x more, is quite large, does not have a universal strap, doesn't even last a day without a charge, works with TWO devices and to top it all off, the screen doesn't stay on so you can't even use it as a watch!
Even the Pebble has an accelerator that engages the back-light. And it was made by a bunch of hipsters on a shoe-string budget. Reply
theduckofdeath - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkE-Ink is frustrating on a smart device. You never know when the screen will refresh, which give the impression that everything lags constantly. OLED is a better choice for this kind of device with more active information displayed.
Though, I personally wouldn't get any, as I am one of those who thinks that the most important feature of a wrist watch is to always be able to tell you the current time, no matter how long you've been away from a power outlet. Reply
taltamir - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkeink actually has a worse battery life under frequent screen refreshes. (eg, when doing anything other than reading a book with a very compact font)
The reason it gives the illusion of high battery life is that when a hypothetical person is reading a book with a small font they are assumed to wait a few minutes between each page turn. If you are a fast reader and like a very large font, or if you are using it to surf the internet instead of reading a book, then you get a better battery life out of an LCD then you do out of eink Reply
blue_urban_sky - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkThe same holds true for a watch too, I'd be ok with 15min update unless I request it, you can use sound for alerts n such.
You could possibly have it update once if you position your wrist a certain way? Reply
name99 - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkI assume you want a WATCH to update at least once a minute? Personally I'd be pissed off if it didn't update once a second... Reply
name99 - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkmirasol is the PERFECT technology for this application.
Qualcomm may be talking up their book, but they are not wrong. Anyone who builds a watch with a non-mirasol display is simply dumb. (And if that means I can't watch movies at 30 fps on my wrist, so be it. I care about always visible and long battery life far more than the gimmick of movies on the wrist.) Reply
Crono - Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - linkThe display looks better than I thought it would, but I'm still worried about battery life and the Samsung app market for it, as well as it working/working well only with other Samsung devices. Reply
blacks329 - Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - linkThis seems more along the lines of trying to get something to market, before understanding what it can do for the market and how it should be made.
It'll be interesting to see how it's design and functions evolve over time as other enter this "smart watch market" Reply
theduckofdeath - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkI would have said that about the two attempts Sony has made. This watch actually does smart things, both with camera alignment, microphone position and the use of sensors. Reply
fteoath64 - Saturday, September 07, 2013 - linkUsing the market as a test-bench is what something many companies have done. The impact would be faster obsolescence of the current version of the product, and allows for innovative evolution faster. You see that Google Glass is one such effort at a high starting price yet there are many takers since the buyers were convinced of the value of the product even in alpha form. So a crude beta might just be the thing that many people can live with. There is not much wrong with this idea if the manufacturer is sincere about the approach to the customers. Reply
whyso - Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - linkKinda sad that a $100 G-Shock has a feature that can be turned on that lights up the screen when the wrist is held a certain way (angle the watch toward you and the screen lights up) and this device does not. Reply
SunLord - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkShould be easy to add it as it has the right sensors to make it turn on with say a wrist flick Reply
Samus - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkThe Pebble uses an accelerator to power on the backlight when you flick your wrist, and it works great. The problem with the Galaxy Gear is if the flick action is hypersensitive like the Pebble, it will drain the battery quickly by constantly turning the screen on. The Pebble doesn't suffer from its hypersensitivity much because the backlight is a single side-lit LED, not 102,400 LED's. Reply
Death666Angel - Monday, September 09, 2013 - linkYou don't need all OLEDs to turn on, just to tell you the time, do you? Reply
doobydoo - Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - linkI think in the case of the Gear, yes, you do. Reply
bigboxes - Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - linkI like the idea. With the proliferation of larger screen phones (5"+) there is a market for a controller that can access basic functions without the need to pull out the phone: time, read texts messages, read e-mails, phone dialer/answer, voice mail. Also, using the accessory to view data collected by main phone: GPS, pedometer, photo of caller, etc.
The way I look at it this device is just the start. They will get better and offer more options. This accessory isn't for me. The battery life is too short and the charging port is proprietary. The camera should be mounted to the top of the watch and not the watch band. Watch bands need to be replaced from time to time and are usually the most likely to come in contact with other surfaces. The watch band needs some ventilation. How else would one use this while being active? Cost too much. Maybe for ~$200, but @ $300 forget it. The device also needs to work with the majority of phones through an app (for the phone).
Cute first attempt. I'll pass and keep an eye open for further improvements on the form factor. Reply
nerd1 - Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - linkGood first attempt but no one will buy this at $299. No one. Reply
Dentons - Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - linkYou're very, very wrong. A lot of people will buy them.
Samsung will market the hell out of them, and there will be a lot of them purchased. Millions and millions for Christmas alone.
It's not a perfect product, but it's being released 6 to 10 months before the counter product from Apple. By the time Apple released their 1st gen watch, Sammy will be readying, or releasing, their 2nd generation watch. A product that will fix, many if not most of the deficiencies and probably feature a larger, curved screen.
This looks "Dick Tracy". The next version will look "Star Trek".
Crono - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkAnd the one after that - the first successful one - will look like Predator. Reply
icetorch - Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - linkI doubt millions, but I think smartwatches will catch on, especially as it becomes more refined. Reply
althaz - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkYou're wrong, it's probably not going to sell tens of millions, but a million is not out of the question (I would consider that number a success, not sure what Samsung are expecting). Reply
Samus - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkI'd be shocked if it sold a million, especially considering it only works with Android 4.3 and requires Bluetooth 4.0 LE (BLE devices) of which there are only 7 devices in production (4 phones) that have this hardware, and only two devices are currently supported at ALL by this thing, coincidentally, both Samsung's.
Not supporting iOS or WP8 will dent its sales, and not supporting Android 4.0-4.2 devices will definitely shelve it as a niche product. All other Smartwatches, ALL OF THEM, are cross-platform. Every single one supports Android AND iOS, and many newer ones, including the upcoming Agent Smartwatch, support WP8.
Samsung is doing well, but they're not in the position to become a proprietary manufacture like Apple. Not yet. They don't have the cult. Reply
arthur449 - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkMany manufacturers used their own Bluetooth stack on their Android handsets to add Bluetooth 4.0 support to Android 4.0.4 - 4.2.2. My LG OG, for instance, is running 4.1.2 but supports Bluetooth 4.0 LE. Reply
Dentons - Friday, September 06, 2013 - linkYes, it will only with a handful of 7 devices.
What you've failed to mention is that one of those devices is the world's best selling smartphone.
Samsung will sell Millions of Gear watches. One reason is that Gear will be bundled with compatible smartphones. Clearly, Gear's manufacturing cost is nowhere near the listed $300 price. This suggests carrier subsidized bundles have been anticipated from the start.
We'll very likely see the following ads in the coming weeks "Get the Galaxy Note 3 for just $200* or the Galaxy Note 3 PLUS a Galaxy Gear watch for just $300*
* requires 2-year contract.
Samsung will sell millions Reply
KoolAidMan1 - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkSamsung will do better with their watch once Apple has given them another template to copy. Reply
noeldillabough - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkI don't really see anyone with a watch anymore...I saw a guy today and I was like ... "woah a watch!" Reply
p05esto - Friday, September 06, 2013 - linkAgreed, watches are only an accessory when you are all dressed up fancy. They serve no purpose any longer. Only a total tool would wear one of these in this day and age. Reply
Friendly0Fire - Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - linkIt looks interesting, but it reassures me that my Pebble won't be deprecated immediately. I'll take battery life over a shiny color screen which is default off. Reply
ruzveh - Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - linkI cant imagine to now charge my watch every few hours. Shocking.. Why doesnt it come with solar charging? Reply
chaos215bar2 - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkSolar charging is used on watches that would already get years of battery life on a normal lithium cell. It wouldn't make a dent in the battery life of something that uses this much power. Reply
Subyman - Wednesday, September 04, 2013 - linkThat thing is huge. I used to wear watches, but I found myself never using it. I wear them in formal situations (you don't want to pull a phone out if your boss asks you for the time.) I don't see myself ever wanting a device on my wrist like that. Wearable tech sounds interesting, but just like we are finally getting away from skeuomorphism in iOS, companies need to think of the best solution instead of jamming tech into familiar forms. Samsung took a basic watch and bolted a screen on it. Not very inventive or practical. Reply
Winterblade - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkI'll could say that I'm going to wait untill someone sells a smartwatch with sub $150 flexible mirasol (or similar low energy display technology) and at least 3 days battery life, but I'm prety sure that by the time that became posible, HUD devices like Google Glass will eat out smart watches market.
I really think that there are no place for both. Reply
Yofa - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkTerrible... I have the Sony Smartwatch. Did Samsung even pay attention? This looks comparitively terrible with regards to price, battery life, and concept in comparison... Why do I need storage on the watch?! Reply
email@example.com - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkZ1 FULL Android Watch Phone came out 1 yr ago, and Z2 will be out soon with dual core cpu, water resistance etc.. absolutely kill this gear crap. Reply
email@example.com - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkand will also kill icrap watch Reply
xinthius - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linklol dual core, in a watch, you must be having a laugh. Reply
email@example.com - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkLearn to read, I said, Next version will be dual core Reply
steven75 - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkI just googled the Z1.
Let me just say... LMAO. What an absolute turd. Like wearing a pocket protector and claiming it's cool. Reply
email@example.com - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkyou Google it and you think you know? I actually purchased it and wrote a review on it. its not the fastest, but it actually works. Reply
R3MF - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkTizen as the OS? Reply
jabber - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkDaily charging for a watch.
Incredible. Who buys this cr*p? Reply
enealDC - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkAs much as I love new tech and am thrilled by the advancements there-in, there are somethings that in my mind, don't need a high tech makeover and the watch is one of them.
So much of what they are giving you, you already have in your pocket in the form of a smart phone. Reply
Murloc - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkI think the camera, color display, photo displaying etc. are useless because you can just take out your phone to do that stuff, it's easier to point and shoot with the phone, it has higher quality and the bigger screen is preferable for pic viewing.
Also the fact that you can't just glance at it fast and it needs recharging every 10 hours kills it as a watch. I understand that increasing battery life is difficult though.
What will really make these things sell is the fact that you can answer the phone knowing who's calling and start calls and read single texts (answering them or engaging multitext conversations will still need the phone), and select music and radio channels that are on your phone without taking it out. It's like the car's navigator's bluetooth phone connection but you always have it on you. Just make it connect to bluetooth earphones (in addition to the smartphone) and put an audio jack in the thing.
This stuff really has a future. Reply
dusk007 - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkWhat I would like to see, is a sort of wrist band with a flexible oled screen a big battery that can do lots of stuff and is especially aimed for outdoor sports use.
Flexible so I can put it on the arm or over whatever I am wearing. Display heart rate, maps while hiking, ...
Stuff like that and a flat big battery pack that allows bending (some company displayed such) and wide like 5-7cm width.
That would be great. I don't like wearing watches. That is for old people or people who consider it jewelry and have a thing for jewelry. Hardly anybody from the newer generation today wears watches. The only watch I wear is for a sport.
I agree with Subyman. Don't just cram existing tech in familiar form factors. See what great products one could make with existing tech. Reply
cjs150 - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - link"Rather than an always on display like you'd have with an actual watch, ... but it looks like the only option, at least initially, is to hit the power/lock button on the side."
I cannot be the only old bloke who reads anandtech. Someone else must remember the first digital watches with crappy LCD displays where you had to press a button on side to get time to flash on. Seems like only yesterday (!). Clearly Samsung have taken inspiration from 1970s Reply
chaos215bar2 - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkI'm pretty sure those were LED displays. (Actual LED displays, not the modern misuse of the term by TV manufacturers.) Reply
RAgnol - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkBoy Wonder would say - "Hole crap, Batman!". Who needs a huge watch (maybe the folks that buy huge Fossil, A/X and Diesel watches) with so many questionable useful functions?
The whole concept of a smartwatch makes sense only to Queen-Size "Mine is bigger than yours" smartphone users - the current trend to have bigger and bigger screen size are making phones NOT practical to use, so let's spoil more money from the kids throwing a secondary screen in their wrists. Anand, great review, and I completely agree that this stuff is ugly, it fulfil the ugly line of Samsung phones. I would like to see if Nokia, HTC and Apple could bring some better design (form and functionality) to this category with a more adequate price. Samsung has the balls to charge USD 300 for this ugly piece of crap. Reply
HisDivineOrder - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkI'm reminded of that old "smart watch" that connected to Microsoft servers. I suppose there's a market for this (ie., people who bought special straps for their iPod Nano's), but I can't help laughing at the idea of people lookin' like Dick Tracy with a watchphone (TM pending, totally mine!). Reply
Devfarce - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkI have a Garmin Forerunner 405 with GPS and ANT+ and it's several years old and believe it or not the battery will last a week with around 3 hours of GPS use on it. A lot of these watches are headed in the wrong direction.
The watch should be able to function on its own without a smartphone. However you don't need much CPU for this. GPS, BT 4.0 accessories like bike computers and heart rate monitors and other cool stuff that hasnt been imagnined yet. When it is paired to the phone, it leverages that CPU via bluetooth for additional features. Push notifications, Siri, etc, calls apps. It's the same concept as cloud compute resources; you have a low power device that is functional on its own and then connect it to more capable resources and you get next level functionality Reply
Icehawk - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkI don't get these overly complicated wearables - for a "watch" all I'd want is the ability to see the time/date, use it for caller ID, and initiate/answer calls. Anything else I'd pull out the base station, ie my phone, to do. A watch with those functions doesn't need color or much processor power since it would function almost entirely via BT and then we'd get the 48hr+ battery life that is pretty much a requirement IMO. At this point I think they should act more like a 2nd screen vs discrete device. Reply
Maltz - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkUgh. This is what happens when someone releases a product without waiting to copy Apple's. lol Reply
R-Type - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkWhich watch company will Microsoft buy up to stay competitive in this market? Reply
name99 - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkUhh, Fossil?
http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=1100 Reply
p05esto - Friday, September 06, 2013 - linkHopefully none, this is a STUPID, horrible idea. Only a totally hipster douche would even consider wearing something like this or Google Glass. Reply
name99 - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - link"Banjo gives you the power to see what's happening, right now, anywhere in the world"
I must admit, I thought $300 was a little high for what looks like a giant pile of 🐂💩, but that was before I saw this. $300 to see anything, anywhere! Damn, that's one hell of a deal. I wonder how many the CIA and NSA will be ordering? Reply
cmdrdredd - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkFor me a watch is worthless if it isn't water proof to at least one atmosphere. I''m intrigued by this but for every function this does, I have my phone in my pocket to do it better. Reply
pj_camp - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkNot sure why my arm needs notification of what is going on in my pocket. Lifting my arm to see if it needs to continue on to the pocket seems like it is worth a whole lot less than $300. Reply
piroroadkill - Friday, September 06, 2013 - linkHaha. Perfect explanation of Smart Watches. Reply
barry spock - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkSeeing how much of a failure this is, I'm curious about how apple could possibly make a watch that people "have to have". Considering that the iphone will stay at a size that is convenient enough to pull out of the pocket, I could only imagine the iwatch as being a Nano with gps built in, ie. a jogging accessory.
All up, this "Gear" is the perfect example of when in the two-horse race, what happens when the second horse gets its nose in front--> it doesn't know where to go.
Samsung have never understood aesthetics and the spec. choices are a confused mess. Reply
sadsteve - Thursday, September 05, 2013 - linkHm, this sounds more useful than the Ronco In-The-Shell Electric Egg Scrambler!!
This sure sounds like a waste of money to me. Also, it's freakin huge, I doubt I'd be able to wear one since I'm a small guy. Another, also, is that when I do wear a watch, it's a pocket watch! Reply
Draconian - Friday, September 06, 2013 - linkI hope they make a version for people who wear watches on their right wrist. If I wore the one pictured on my right wrist, the camera would be facing toward me. Reply
fteoath64 - Saturday, September 07, 2013 - link"If I wore the one pictured on my right wrist, the camera would be facing toward me." Perhaps, the next iteration with 2 cameras on either side would allow people to select a default camera to use!. Not that the camera is going to be a key feature for everyone. So want and some don't. But long battery life is for everyone, so is a very clear usable screen. Not everyone wants a talking watch!. Reply
p05esto - Friday, September 06, 2013 - linkI wouldn't be caught dead wearing one of these geeky pieces of crap. This is almost as dorky looking as Google Glass.... these companies are using us, selling us crap we don't need. Only suckers will buy these watches. This is harsh, but REALLY. Wow is this a stupid product. Reply
doobydoo - Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - linkCompletely agree.
Companies trying to create markets which nobody wants or needs just to continue the smartphone/tablet gold run.
The sad thing is that so many people will fall for it. Reply
Little Leo - Friday, September 06, 2013 - linkCalling Dick Tracy, Calling Dick Tracy, come in please.... man I'm dating myself, lol. Reply
fteoath64 - Saturday, September 07, 2013 - linkI am shocked that it is a 800Mhz SoC in there!. It seems like an overkill since a 300Mhz would be more than sufficient for most tasks except video capture (here it would have discrete DSP chip). If you look at the original iPhone with 400Mhz practically was lag free in almost all things except recording video. Reply
nomster - Saturday, September 07, 2013 - link"Overall the styling isn't bad but it doesn't scream beauty to me"
The styling is bad in my book - 4 big screws on the front! They must have been in a crazy rush to get this out - almost as if they had heard rumours about a competitor or something! $300 for something that looks so cheap - it's an insult to potential consumers.
"There is an accelerometer inside the device, so presumably Samsung could try and detect when you're moving your arm as if you're about to check the time and wake the screen up automatically but that didn't seem to be enabled on the devices I used."
I tend to move my arms during the working day without wanting to check a watch. I know you do a lot of writing at a desk Anand but you surely move your arms occasionally to, y'now, scratch your ear or lift a cup? I think having the watch use the accelerometer to wake up would not be a good idea with battery conservation being more important. Reply
Stringtheory1 - Saturday, September 07, 2013 - linkHas anyone told Samsung that wearing watches is a dying custom? Less and less people are willing to carry both a watch and a phone so this strikes me as a very high-risk gamble. It's not that people consciously decide NOT to grab it when they leave the house, it's just that if they are in a hurry and are going to grab one item besides their keys and wallet, it's gonna be their phone. Your phone will tell you the time but you can't call on your watch. Watches will forever be a tiny market because it doesn't have the indispensable quality of a smartphone. Reply
piiman - Saturday, September 07, 2013 - linkWhere did you get the idea that watches were a tiny market?
And I don't have to grab my watch when heading out the door because its strapped to my wrist at all times. Now smart watches (which don't seem all that smart to me are a tiny market and since you have to charge it every 10 hours I'd probably forget it. But since I'll never buy one (at least not in their current state) I'll stick to my phone and good old wrist watch that cost me 60.00 and can display the time without a charge for several years..
I just don't see any need for this thing. Make it a complete stand alone phone and maybe you have something..oh and make it water proof. Oh and $300.00 pleaaaaseee! I rather just strap my phone to my wrist and kill two birds with one stone. Reply
theduckofdeath - Sunday, September 08, 2013 - linkI personally don't see the use of a mini display for the phone you have easily accessible in your pocket. These will not be the next big thing, no matter who sells them. Though, the niche market will be big enough for a company to rake in a pretty neat profit from selling "a few" $300 watches.
Some time down the road when battery life is less of an issue, these types of watches will replace a lot of the feature phone sales, but I doubt many will find the usefulness in having a half-sentence notification centre for your phone you carry around in your pocket, no matter how clever and intuitive the interaction is between those two devices. Reply
theduckofdeath - Sunday, September 08, 2013 - link"Most of the Galaxy Gear samples at Samsung's press event were tethered to tables, a process which I believe obscured the Gear's micro USB port. If you dig around in the settings you'll even see an option to enable USB debug mode (lending further credibility to the OS having Android roots)."
There is no USB port on it, there's a pogo connector on the inside. I guess this is to make it more water resistant than the likes of MOTOACTV, which are actually reported from time to time to break even from sweat damage. You don't want your $300 watch to die just because it's a hot day... :) Reply
Wwhat - Tuesday, September 10, 2013 - linkOdd that it has accelerometer and gyro sensors but not a magnetic (compass) one. Reply
pete1229 - Wednesday, September 11, 2013 - linkGreat, now the NSA will only be limited to spying on youe emails and phone calls, they'll be able to track your exact position on the planet whenever and wherever they want. Reply
theduckofdeath - Saturday, September 14, 2013 - linkZzzzzzz....
A phone tracks you more accurately than this watch. Troll. Reply
A4i - Monday, September 30, 2013 - linkHow so? It is difficult to hold a smartphone when pissing, because your hands are occupied. Same holds truth when making love to your wife. Smartwatch will be an excellent spying platform. Reply
Wade_Jensen - Friday, September 13, 2013 - linkI think the smartwatch form factor could do brilliantly as an RSS reader. News could just trickle in on your wrist. Maybe not a killer app, but news aggregation would be useful.
Price point is not going to be viable above $150 IMO though. Reply
rohan.jindal - Monday, September 16, 2013 - linkSeems like all the Gadgets company are now looking into Smartwatch segment as the New "Smart" thing to develop and attract more buyers to invest unnecessarily. And in India the Samsung Galaxy Note 3 and Galaxy Gears are available for pre-booking. http://thetechy.com/news/samsung-galaxy-note-3-and... Reply


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AMD's DockPort Given Virtual Overviewby Ian Cutress on 2/13/2014 4:58 AM EST
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- DisplayPort
- DockPort
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Mobile-Dom - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linki really want DockPort to be a thing, and i reckon it will be, but unfortunatly i dont think it will be in a reasonable amount of time, which upsets me, the idea of Dockport (and by extension Thunderolt) is great, one cable for essentially everything, it just hasnt happened with thunderbolt becasue its too dang expensive, and i dont think AMD will make DockPort a think in a timely fashion because, well thats what AMD seems to do, they're like "hey look at this awesome thing... go finish it" which, well sucks Reply
fteoath64 - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkIt makes existing USB3 standard more usable and more flexible rather than adopt a different standard like TB that is both costly in terms of chipset and cables, yet do a bit more. The PC industry cannot afford a more expensive thing for peripherals in order to go mainstream. USB2 took some time to be mainstream and USB3 should well accelerate that as will Sata Express.
The idea is to keep extending the existing standard with faster speed and higher bandwidth to keep up with the processing ability of the cpu/gpu. Also storage capabilities. Reply
Mobile-Dom - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linklike i said, i really want it to happen, i mean hey, DockPort should technically be able to do more than thunderbot should it not? USB Vs. PCIe? i could be wrong though.
i want it to happen, but the pessimist in me is saying it wont.
though i hope my next notebook/desktop has a Dockport port Reply
Ian Cutress - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkWith PCIe you can add any PCIe to X controller to get that functionality. All modern USB 3.0/SATA 6 Gbps controllers use PCIe 2.0 lanes from the chipset, for example, and there are plenty of PCIe to X cards out there. Thunderbolt also has a throughput boost, being able to use PCIe, meaning more daisy chaining possible. The concern there, as always is cost. TB is more expensive, but is more versatile.
I've maintained a story for a number of years now - when the USB media kits I get at events are all USB 3.0, then USB 3.0 has a proper foot into normal use scenarios. Last year at Computex it was 50% USB 3.0, 50% USB 2.0, so there's still room for improvement if these companies are using the cheapest solution to distribute 50MB+ images. All new standards have this adoption lag, although additions to current standards might be adopted more quickly - it is hard to say. Reply
BMNify - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkits a shame given the time lag since the initial dockport announcment that we dont see USB3.1 being taken as the default for this relaunch and where is the mention of official far faster Ethernet over USB3/3.1 networking that i seem to remember being a base option way back when originally speced... Reply
HisDivineOrder - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkI thought the same. Reply
repoman27 - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkWhat you need to take into account is the time lag that will occur before certified USB 3.1 XHCI silicon is widely available, which will really be when AMD and Intel integrate it into their chipsets. For Intel that will mean what, Skylake at the earliest? I'm sure AMD will get there sooner than that, and DockPort is their baby, but realistically, waiting for USB 3.1 would be pointless. Reply
SirKnobsworth - Friday, February 14, 2014 - linkSkylake would make sense. That's when they're moving the secondary PCIe lanes to 3.0 as well (according to leaked roadmaps), which will mean an upgrade of the entire high speed IO controller on the chipset. USB 3.1 and PCIe 3.0 both have comparable speeds so it makes sense to do them at the same time. Reply
Sahrin - Friday, February 14, 2014 - linkHow much do you guys get paid by Intel to emphasize weakness of USB in the face of Thunderbolt? Seriously.
There is zero reason that Thunderbolt should exist or even be discussed, except to pad Intel's bottom line. Stop talking about it, and Intel might just release the next HCI on time and we won't have to wait two years for USB3 to become the standard. Reply
lmcd - Saturday, February 15, 2014 - linkUmm an external GPU dock is still really, really desirable.
I think the market for such a thing is being underestimated, as well as the marketing opportunity that could accompany it. Reply
piroroadkill - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkYeah, you're wrong. But at the same time, having a USB controller means the end device can be much cheaper and less complicated. Reply
Xajel - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkThere's two things I can see, (1) the reason why Thunderbolt is expensive is because Intel want it to be a premium... and they started it with the exclusive deal with Apple first... I don't think that the chip, socket & cable costs that much... not even close.. they want more profit from it.. not to mention the license fee per device/connector...
(2) What If AMD managed later to have a DockPort 2.0 version of it which could have PCIe data also ( the device can choose between PCIe or USB ) ? I think the reason for why they went for USB 3.0 now is to lower the costs for both adopters from the MB sides and the external devices sides.. as both USB 3.0 and DisplayPort are everywhere now and cheap to implement also ( I still hope that future DP standard will add CEC support in order for it to compete HDMI even in consumer electronics )... Reply
repoman27 - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkThe reason why Thunderbolt is expensive is because it's really at the edge of consumer and bordering on datacenter / HPC technology. It's a 4-channel 10.3125 Gbit/s SerDes that can tunnel multiple protocols and (finally) supports channel-bonding. According to Intel ARK, dual-port Thunderbolt 2 controllers are only $9.95. Compare that to the X540-AT2 dual-port 10GBASE-T Ethernet Controller which costs $149.79 and has a TDP 4.5 times higher. I'd love to know what the Thunderbolt licensing fees actually are, because thus far device pricing has not aligned in any way with the chip prices listed on ARK. Nevertheless, Intel has still managed to lower the cost and power consumption of external serial I/O at those kinds of data rates by an amazing amount.
AMD probably could MUX a single PCIe 2.0 lane into DockPort, but it might be a bit more difficult and would likely increase the cost of the controller. DP can theoretically support CEC over the AUX channel. Reply
Morawka - Friday, February 14, 2014 - linkThunderbolt chips arent that expensive on the Bill of Materials if you take a look at it over at ARK. The new thunderbolt 2.0 is $10 per chip, Thunderbolt 1.0 is even cheaper @ $5 per chip.
Problem is, manufacturers are not willing to pass the costs savings to the end user which is slowing adoption rate.
For Example: A dual HDD thunderbolt Enclousure is on newegg right now for $300
2X Thunderbolt 2.0 Chips = $20
Enclousure and wiring= $10
total cost of Bill of materials: $30
Throw in R&D, Marketing, Packaging this adds another $50 AT MOST. so thats $90 total, but they charge $300, raking in around 300% profit Reply
Flunk - Friday, February 14, 2014 - linkFor an I/O IC $20 is insane, USB ICs cost less than 1/10th that. You have to remember the full bill of materials includes many different components. No one is going to be enthusiastic about buying a product that isn't any functionally better but costs $18 more. Reply
SirKnobsworth - Friday, February 14, 2014 - linkFYI both TB ports are handled by a single controller. Reply
repoman27 - Saturday, February 15, 2014 - linkBy my reckoning, if your BOM cost exceeds 30% of your retail selling price, you're probably doing it wrong. Don't forget things like testing, certification, licensing, drivers (if required), assembly, shipping, distribution, support, warranty claims, etc. that all erode your margin.
That being said, your BOM also has some issues. As SirKnobsworth pointed out, devices only require a single Thunderbolt controller, even if they are dual-port. However, for a typical HDD RAID enclosure, you will need a SATA host controller which will run ~$2-$5. You also need to deal with the DisplayPort output aspect of Thunderbolt. While the newer controllers have made great strides at integrating most of what is required, the original controllers, which many designs are still based on, were sorely lacking. Take a gander at the original LaCie Thunderbolt Little Big Disk: http://images.anandtech.com/galleries/1411/IMG_022... There's something like 30 ICs on that board, and nearly half of them, about $14 worth, are just to handle the DP signal in case someone plugs a display into the thing.
Compare that to the new Thunderbolt 2 version: http://images.anandtech.com/galleries/3296/DSC_466... Things are way less complicated, and since it uses a PCIe SSD, there's no need for a SATA controller. There are however a couple TI TPS22981 Thunderbolt PMICs, which run $1.24 each, a couple 2Mb serial flash modules at $0.56 each, an NXP LPC11E14FHN33/401 ARM Cortex-M0 microcontroller for $1.38, and what I'm guessing is a Parade PS181 DP to Dual-Mode DP format converter for another ~$3.50, although I can't make out the markings in any of the photos I've come across. Plus additional for the passives, PCBs, connectors, heat sink / fan assembly, switch, power supply, cable (if included), etc.
The bottom line is that historically, the premium for single port Thunderbolt devices has started around $80 and for dual-port devices at about $180, which appears to be well beyond what can be justified by the BOM alone. I'm curious to see if prices come down as everything becomes much more tightly integrated, or if OEMs will continue to toe the line. It's hard to say how much of the pricing issue is due to onerous licensing terms from Intel, or just the relatively small potential customer base thus far.
@Flunk - $20 for an I/O IC that provides 4x 10 Gbit/s channels is insanely cheap, and if we believe ARK, it's actually only $9.95. Can you point to any other IC that provides that kind of throughput per $? For applications that can use the bandwidth, it's potentially worth the premium. Unless you're talking about serious RAIDs, Thunderbolt HDD enclosures are almost as silly as USB 3.0 mice. Reply
lmcd - Saturday, February 15, 2014 - linkHotswapping PCIe SSDs like flashdrives would be pretty awesome, IMO. Could even replace CompactFlash. Reply
schizoide - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkSo I'm confused, this is (somehow) USB3 over a physical displayport connection, which allows daisy-chaining rather than forcing a hub? And you can plug-in to power/charge at the end of the daisy-chain? And it can pass displayport video as well? That is super cool, if it's cheap.
Like most people, I've been waiting for a good external thunderbolt PCI-e graphics solution for a long ass time. I want to buy a macbook air, plug in a little $100 box with my own Geforce 760, and get console-level graphics. But for whatever reason, nobody has seen fit to provide such a thing. Reply
TheStu - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkThe problems are:
1. Intel limits that sort of thing. You have to get the thunderbolt controllers from them, and they won't always license them if they don't like what your doing.
2. Power. A 760 needs about 150w of power, which requires a power brick that weighs about as much as the MacBook Air you're hooking it up to.
I've done a lot of research into this, and am trying to develop a cost effective solution, but those are the stumbling blocks. Reply
schizoide - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkI can't speak to 1, although I'm sure you're right.
But for 2, I would not expect a portable solution. I just want a docking station that can fit a competitive mid-range GPU. Huge power brick is A-OK. And really, pricing at $300 would be OK too. Reply
BMNify - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkwell there are existing External Single PCI Express Enclosure's like the http://www.netstor.com.tw/_03/03_02.php?OTk but you wont want to pay the costs for just a box and a card ....
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/netstor-na221a-nb-p... £314.40 Inc VAT Reply
schizoide - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkYes, expresscard solutions exist, but they aren't very good. Not enough bandwidth. Needs to be thunderbolt or another similar pcie channel extension like SATA express.
Also, 315 pounds sterling is >$500. That's a lot of frickin' money. Needs to be cheaper. What I really want is the following, for roughly $300:
1 double-width PCI-e slot with at least 4 pcie channels (8 would be better)
4 USB3 ports
1 headphone jack
1 optical audio jack
1 daisy-chain port (SATA express, thunderbolt, etc, whatever it uses)
Whoever delivers this product will make a crapton of money. Reply
SirKnobsworth - Friday, February 14, 2014 - linkI doubt that if that is ever available it will cost that little. Each TB controller only has 4 PCIe lanes, which means this device would need to have a PLX chip for additional PCIe switching. Those aren't particularly cheap. And that's on top of an audio interface, a USB3 controller, and a power supply which can power a desktop graphics card. Reply
lmcd - Saturday, February 15, 2014 - linkYeah the whole point is for an ULP by day, gaming PC by night. Accompany a ULV Haswell/Broadwell, and give the thing huge thermal headroom for its CPU cores when plugging in the dGPU (so no bottlenecking). Reply
MrSpadge - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkYou're right - USB3. Which is too slow for GPUs. For pretty much anything else it's fine.
And you're after console level graphics? The current IGPs already surpass PS3 and XB360. Overtaking the new ones will take a few more years, though. Reply
Flunk - Friday, February 14, 2014 - linkPS3 and Xbox 360 both use IGPs and they're over 7 years old at this point. PC IGPs that surpass their performance are not impressive, we could have had that sort of performance 7 years ago if the manufacturers had wanted to put it out. Reply
lmcd - Saturday, February 15, 2014 - linkThey were not iGPUs to start, and even now the PS3 GPU is on a separate die. Reply
winterspan - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkIt's more complicated than that. The first version of thunderbolt wasn't even close to fast enough for a decent GPU. TB 2.0 (20gbps) is definitely closer, but it would still constrain a high end GPU. It also requires a special driver to be developed for OSX and windows. I'm sure you'll see a commercial version soon of the prototypes that have been seen out there.
I had an expresscard->PCIe box with an ATI 3770 back in the day. It worked adequately, but could be really flaky. Also if the express card got unplugged the system would immediately crash (probably unavoidable)
That said, i would pay top dollar for a reliable thunderbolt based GPU for my MacBook Air (even if it can only support a midrange GPU until TB 3.0) and it would be particularly awesome if it worked with windows. Reply
R3MF - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkthis needs to be a thing.
royalty free for widespread adoption, and the addition of power, have the potential to be a brilliant addition to all motherboards/tablet devices. Reply
TEAMSWITCHER - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkDid you ever see the Family Guy episode where Stewie made an f'ed up clone of himself he called "Bitch Stewie?" AMD has just made "Bitch Thunderbolt." Reply
BMNify - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkremember Intel Light Peak ? then Thunderbolt is also a "Bitch Light Peak" OC that's been 4 years so we should be seeing real Si Photonics soon, even if its Only as a data carrier and not the real deal Si Photonic processing Reply
repoman27 - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkYeah, but I also remember that Light Peak had nothing to do with silicon photonics. It used conventional VCSELs for the external transceivers instead of the copper versions that Thunderbolt uses, but the host controller was more or less identical. Why is it that people have such a hard-on for lasers? Did everyone think that TOSLINK was the best interconnect standard ever or something?
It's more like AMD just made "Bitch MHL", although on second thought, I'm not sure who would be the bitch in that situation. Reply
edzieba - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - link"Sound familiar? Like Thunderbolt familiar?"
Actually, sounds familiar, like OneLink familiar. Lenovo's docking port is really a power connector and displayport connector carrying an extra USB3 link for ethernet and port breakout on an internal hub.
Little chance it'll be compatible with DockPort though, particularly with the price of OneLink docks outside of the US. Reply
repoman27 - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkI'm surprised that Anandtech, of all places, still isn't reporting how DockPort actually works, all of which is detailed on TI's website: http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/hd3ss2521.pdf?DCM...
The bottom line is that it requires a chip on the host PC which simply muxes the SuperSpeed USB send and receive pairs with lanes 2 and 3 of a DisplayPort 1.2 main link. It also uses the DisplayPort CONFIG1 and CONFIG2 lines for the USB 2.0 signal, and has provisions for power delivery. If the attached devices use SuperSpeed USB, it will only have a 2-lane DP link running at 5.4 Gbit/s, which is effectively the same bandwidth as DP 1.1a. If you want to connect more than one display to a single port, you need to include a relatively spendy DP 1.2 MST hub in the device. All USB devices will be sharing the 500 MB/s bandwidth of a single USB 3.0 port (or less, depending on what else is connected to the host controller), or a paltry single USB 2.0 port if more than 2 DP lanes are required. All DockPort cables will be captive to the device per VESA requirements.
This is not at all like Thunderbolt, which is a 4-channel, 10.3125 Gbit/s serial I/O controller which supports daisy chaining and can transport PCIe, DisplayPort and TCP/IP packets along with 10 W of power over dual-channel links. Reply
SirKnobsworth - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkThey'll probably bump to DisplayPort 1.3 and USB 3.1 in the not-too-distant future, which will alleviate some of the capacity constraints. It's never going to keep up with Thunderbolt's active cabling and more involved signal routing but it will be cheaper, and probably simpler to implement. Reply
SilentSin - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkGiven how cheap it is to implement this tech I think OEMs will run with it (unless "forced" to do otherwise). http://www.anandtech.com/show/7649/dockport-adopte...
Check out the chip in the Acer V5 which was released a long time ago...part # seems eerily similar as does the functionality. http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2055...
The modular parts in the youtube video look pretty awesome. I do wish AMD could launch some of those products to retail along with what was shown at CES. I'm sure OEMs will use some of the ideas eventually, but they always seem to screw up at least one key aspect. Reply
repoman27 - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkThe chip in that Acer V5 is in fact the same TI DockPort controller which I linked to the datasheet for earlier. I have a feeling that DockPort will mostly be implemented by OEMs who also offer branded adapters and docks, as Acer does: http://store.acer.com/store/aceramer/en_US/pd/Them...
The modular accessories are masking the fact that DockPort cables must be captive, so making the cable zero length would result in little thumb drive like modules. You never tend to see USB thumb drives with integrated USB hubs so that they can be stacked together in that way though, so I'm not sure what would make that paradigm take off. Reply
goozira - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkI'm just wondering how DockPort sends data. Say if I have a RAID storage box, can it send the data across the Displayport side or would it only send data using USB 3.0 and it would be limited to USB speeds. Reply
repoman27 - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkDockPort sends data using USB 3.0. It's literally just a few switches and some logic that allow a DisplayPort 1.2 port and a USB 3.0 port to share the pins of a standard MiniDP receptacle. It also has provisions for power delivery that are similar to the USB Power Delivery Specification.
DockPort is about reducing the number of cables required to connect certain types of devices by 1 or maybe 2. It introduces no new features and yet makes several compromises along the way. Reply
shank15217 - Friday, February 14, 2014 - linkWhat compromises? Reply
repoman27 - Saturday, February 15, 2014 - linkThe biggest one is that using SuperSpeed USB reduces the DisplayPort main link to 2 lanes. Unless you're connecting a display with a DP 1.2 sink on board (which are rather uncommon at this point), that would limit you to 1920x1200 resolutions at 60 Hz, 24 bpp. If you want to use MST to drive more than a single display, you have to press a button which disables SuperSpeed USB and relegates you to a single shared USB 2.0 port for all connected devices.
Also the use of DP_PWR means that all DockPort devices need to have tethered cables per the VESA specification.
Honestly, for the intended market, these are completely reasonable trade-offs though. Reply
AnnonymousCoward - Monday, February 17, 2014 - linkThat's a good point.....I guess you can't do dual-1080p if monitors only support 2.7Gbps DP1.1. Reply
speculatrix - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linka colleague recently bought a cheap Acer laptop which has a combo displayport + usb port, and Acer have adaptors which can give you VGA or HDMI out along with with USB ports and network.
I am wondering whether it's in any way similar to the AMD standard, or Acer's proprietary take on the idea. Reply
repoman27 - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkNote my reply to SilentSin above. Proprietary name (Mini Converter Port / Mini CP) but same TI DockPort silicon. I believe Acer may have beaten AMD's branding to market though, and now that it's part of the VESA DisplayPort standard, they might decide to drop the Converter Port nomenclature. Reply
Wolfpup - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - linkI'm not really getting the point to this...I mean it's just Displayport + USB 3.0 over the same connection? Is there any real need for that? Displayport is barely used, and I can't see this doing much better, all to save having a second cable...and even then not really, since you'll still need regular USB connections somewhere (like on your "Dockport" monitor).
I don't know...this seems like a cheaper way to do something similar to Thunderbolt, but like Thunderbolt (and Displayport itself) I don't see this really taking off.
Like others, I still think the idea of easily chaining multiple monitors is cool (if there's no tradeoff), and I still see the idea of being able to attach an external GPU through Thunderbolt as REALLY cool...but we're just not seeing much adoption of any of that. Aside from one system from Sony, no Thunderbolt external GPUs (and what we really want is a dock that works with ANY video card-throw in a Titan or whatever and connect it to your notebook and it works without special drivers).
But none of this is actually happening. There's barely any Displayport monitors, almost everything, notebooks, desktops, and monitors, are using DVI/HDMI and USB 3.0. I just don't see this other stuff as ever taking off, since we've had it for years and it's not taking off. Reply
schizoide - Thursday, February 13, 2014 - link4k is coming fast. You'll be using displayport if you buy a new monitor in 18 months. Reply
SirKnobsworth - Friday, February 14, 2014 - linkWhat DockPort offers is convenience. Plenty of people bring their laptops around with them, but want a bigger display when they're at home. So rather than coming home and plugging in power, the display, and let's say a USB keyboard and some speakers, you plug in one DockPort cable which handles all that.
You're probably right that it's probably not going to appear in many displays. What it will appear in is docking stations for laptops which provide a display output, USB ports, audio, power and maybe a NIC. Reply
piroroadkill - Friday, February 14, 2014 - linkYou missed power. This cable provides enough power to run the laptop. That's kind of the point. Reply
CSMR - Friday, February 14, 2014 - linkWhat we need is a standardized dock. This is close but not there.
Charging (45W or more), multiple USB connections, displayport, ethernet: I.e. standard laptop connections.
There is no need to fit everything into a displayport cable. I do not believe that all the above can be pushed into an existing displayport cable without compromise.
Pushing it into an existing displayport connector creates confusion, when people plug this into monitors directly instead of into a dock, or plug a regular displayport output into a dock. Reply
AnnonymousCoward - Monday, February 17, 2014 - link> creates confusion, when people plug this into monitors
That still works. Reply
Darksurf - Saturday, February 15, 2014 - link" The main competition is of course with Intel's Thunderbolt, where one of the features I am most looking forward to is Graphics over TB. That will not be possible with DockPort,"
What are you talking about?? You just wrote it was possible AND embedded a video showing LINKing and Daisy-Chaining of Monitors via DockPort....
"Share video or run multiple video screens"
Are you talking about external video cards? Reply


text:
Wuerffel on Hall of Fame ballot
Published: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 4:57 p.m.
Last Modified: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 at 4:57 p.m.
Former Florida quarterback Danny Wuerffel is one of 82 players on the 2013 College Football Hall of Fame ballot, which was released Tuesday by the National Football Foundation.
Wuerffel, who won the Heisman Trophy and led the Gators to a national title in 1996, also was on the ballot last year.
To be eligible for the CFHOF, players must have been a first-team All-America, played their last college game 10 years prior, played within the last 50 years and are not currently playing pro football.
According to the NFF, Players are not elected directly to the HOF by the voting process. Instead, the votes are "tabulated and submitted to the National Football Foundation's Honors Court, which deliberates and selects the class."
Reader comments posted to this article may be published in our print edition. All rights reserved. This copyrighted material may not be re-published without permission. Links are encouraged.


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2011 Nissan
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