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ASUS G73Jw: Out with the Old, In with the Newby Jarred Walton on 11/3/2010 12:33 AM EST
53 Comments
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james.jwb - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkAsus Asus Asus, could we please have a few different laptops maybe? Reply
hybrid2d4x4 - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkActually, I wouldn't mind one more Asus review in the near future that I think was hinted at about a month ago in the 13" MBP as a windows laptop article- the UL80JT (or UL30) with the 330UM cpu. I'd really like to see how the battery life from the new CULVs compares to the old and vs the regular voltage core 2010 ones in a machine built by people that know how to integrate/tune the hardware for good battery life. I hope that that's still on the way... Reply
MikeMurphy - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkAsus has stalled in a big way. We have too many choices of laptops all with similar problems.
It seems like you either have 1366x768 resolution, or you have a laptop that looks like it should be in orbit.
Asus should be taking some pointers from the Vaio Z specs. Reply
Penti - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkASUS should also pickup a business lineup.
They have a Vaio style premium line though. Like the N-series. What they lack is high-res screens.
Sony has lots of models, what Asus needs is a better commitment to making laptops. Reply
moep - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkI'm looking for a new gaming laptop right now and all I really care about is maximum performance.
Judging by your review, the G73JH with the updated 740QM should be faster in most games and it is a lot cheaper over here to boot, so I could throw in a small SSD as a boot drive at no additional cost.
Did you notice an improvement in build quality on the JW overall?
Right now I really don't see a reason to go with the updated models, unless Nvidia releases a new driver that suddenly gives the 460M a 20% performance boost. Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkAs far as I can tell, build quality is identical. If they're the same price, I could go either way, but if you can get the JH for substantially less money and the only difference is the GPU and lack of USB3, there's no reason to pay more for the JW. I figure USB3 is worth about $40, so the US pricing right now is fine, but if the difference were more like $100+ then go with the cheaper model. Reply
Aikouka - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkOne thing to consider is that there are a few different variations of the JH model, although last I looked, I only saw the A2 around. The thing is, I have a friend with the A1 version, and he had a hell of a time trying to find a drive caddy for the second drive bay, since the A1 only came with 1 HDD and therefore only one caddy. The A2 has 2 HDDs by default (similar to the JW) and should have two caddies.
Since the user was talking about throwing a SSD into the laptop, I think he'd really want to make sure he got an A2 so he wouldn't have to worry about finding a caddy. Although, finding a caddy might also be significantly easier now... since I don't actually own the laptop, I'm not 100% sure :P. Reply
TheTechnophile - Thursday, November 04, 2010 - linkThere have been a few issues with the JHs. The problems always come out after the "newness" of a system has faded away. You can check out the Xotic PC forums as a good place to get info on these systems.
In particular some of the problems which the JH has, but apparently the JW does not are:
GSOD (BIOS update seemed to have fixed this.... I think.)
Missing keystrokes ( a particularly problematic one with the JH)
Although good tempsin the JH, the JW is MUCH cooler, thereby increasing component life.
On both of them, one of the things that make me cringe is that they use double-sided sticky tape to attach the keyboard. The keyboard is also comprised of a thin aluminium backing, extremely easy, if not impossible not to, bend and crease when removing to get into the machine.
I think the JW has learned from some of the mistakes of the JH. Both are good machines, but go check out what really has been happening with them. Remember there are alot of people over there who love the machine...no matter how many problems it gives them. Reply
TheTechnophile - Thursday, November 04, 2010 - linkSorry...also forgot. They updated the backlit keyboard app as well. Now it comes on before Windows starts. Previously you had to wait to get into Windows before the application could launch to turn on backlighting. Just another nice touch they added, and learned, to the JW. Reply
Quizzical - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - link5 GHz memory? You sure about that? No desktop parts have hit that clock speed, even. Laptop parts tend to be clocked slower. Nvidia has been arbitrarily multiplying GDDR5 clock speeds by 2 to try to cover up the embarrassingly slow clock speeds that their GDDR5 memory controller is stuck at, so that's probably what they did here.
The multiply by 2 bit makes some sense for double data rate memory, but none at all for quad data rate. Maybe they thought it would be more obvious what they were doing if they multiplied by 4. Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkSorry, you're correct. It's 60GB/s bandwidth and a 192-bit interface, which means the GDDR5 is running at 625MHz and not 1250, or an effective speed of 2.5GHz. I've updated the table. Reply
radium69 - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkHey anand,
I just bought a MSI GX740 and suggest you review this model aswell!
The build quality is sturdy and the frame is put together nicely.
Intel Core i5 460M
2x 2GB DDR 1066
ATi Radeon 5870M
Comes with a carrying bag and mouse aswell.
Cost: 1100 euro
(This is a Dutch version, your versions in the US are cheaper and better equipped!)
You might want to give it a look, I'm sure you won't be dissapointed.
Also the battery life is great with it's 9 cell battery (83Wh)
The asus costs well over 1600 Euro here, so if you compare them the MSI is really budget friendly, without breaking the bank, and sacraficing performance!
Kevin Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkHow's the keyboard feel? I tested the GX640 a while back, and everything was fine other than the horrible keyboard. I would be surprised if the GX740 is much better, but it does have an HD 5870 in there IIRC, and the price is definitely attractive. Reply
radium69 - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkThe keyboard feels well made! I'm typing from it right now, it might not be as good as the Asus. But I think it is really easy to get used to.
My desktop PC has a G15 though, and allthough the G15 gives more feedback, I think this MSI keyboard is pretty solid. You should definitely give it a try.
The only little minus is that the function key is on the CTRL spot. But getting used to that is fairly easy.
I think it is also light and very portable for a 17"
Hope to see it in future benchmarks!
I bought the i5 for its lower TDP and better battery life.
It can certainly hold it's ground compared to other laptops.
I can tell that the GX660 (new one 15") Is really gimmicky looking. But the GX740 feels more smooth and has a professional look and feel to it.
MSI even ships a mouse and carrying bag with it. So that saves you another 50 dollars or so.
Hope to see it soon on here!
There is a lot of good stuff on it and it works flawlessy so far.
Definitely a laptop to review!
Kevin Reply
Aikouka - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkI'm looking at the laptop on NewEgg and one thing that may make for an odd review is...
"Resolution 1680 x 1050"
You'd probably only be able to test it at 1600x900 then since I don't think you guys even benchmark at 1680x1050 anymore... especially since a lot of laptops aren't even 16x10 anymore! :P Unfortunately, only showing 1600x900 wouldn't do much for people looking for performance at its actual settings, but I guess there could just be a table with the 1680x1050 results if there are no other laptops to compare it to at that resolution. Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkWe test at 1600x900 because it's becoming more common than 1680x1050, but we'd also throw in the native resolution benchmarks (and we'd hook up to an external LCD for 1080p tests as well). I guess all we really need is for MSI to send us a GX740. :-) Reply
Aikouka - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkAhh good call on the external monitor. I guess I wasn't thinking outside the box... or should I say "case"? ;)
I certainly find no fault in not testing at 1680x1050 anymore as it isn't very common now that a lot of monitors (external or built into laptops) are running at a 16x9 resolution.
The MSI laptop did look pretty decent spec-wise though, but the one thing I've always liked about the ASUS is the fact that it has two HDD bays. I don't recall the MSI laptop having that.
The laptops that have actually disappointed me the most lately have been the newer Dell XPS models... they just seem to still not be centered around... well... good choices. I bought one of the older Dell XPS M1530s back in the day and I still really like the laptop (even with the slow GeForce M8800GT). What disappoints me, is that the 17" XPS, even with the fastest graphics card offering available, does not have a 1080p display option, or at least did not when I tried to configure one. The 15" actually had the 1080p option available, but does not have the fastest GPU as an option... bummer. Reply
StrangerGuy - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkA gaming laptop that already struggles with today's games at its native resolution? I don't even want to imagine how it's going to run future DX11 games. Reply
whatthehey - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkIt's all relative. HP and Dell sell "gaming" desktops with 5470 and GT 220 cards, which would be slower than the G73. If your goal is to get a gaming laptop that can max out every game, you better have a lot of money for something like the X7200 or else reset your expectations. Traditionally, gaming laptops have never been capable of maxing out game settings on the latest titles, especially when even desktops need two higher clocked GPUs to manage that. If you look at other gaming laptops (i.e. Clevo models with either HD 5870 or GTX 480M) and how much they cost, the G73Jh/Jw is still an awesome bargain, and it's not quite the eyesore of Clevo notebooks! That's my take anyway. Reply
Sufo - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkHeh, it's all good - apart from the odd title scattered here and there in 2011, you won't be seeing many of those "future DX11 games" till 2012. PC gaming has plateaued until the next round of consoles. Reply
semo - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkWhen did this site start specializing in laptop reviews?
You know you can't buy these in most places and anandtech is very much an international website.
Also, if you are going to be reviewing laptops, you should know that these high powered machines end up killing themselves in very short time. I would want to know what kind of support these devices get (again this is very location specific), are tear down manuals easy to come by, is it easy to replace parts (e.g. are external ports located on removable PCBs or part of the mobo). My recommendation is to always to buy directly from the manufacturer and get the longest possible warranty. Controversial advice, I know, but if you have come across as many bricked laptops as me, you would know where I'm coming from Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkASUS has a two-year global warranty, which is better than most. As for the quantity of laptop reviews, first the laptop market has now surpassed desktops in total sales, and second there are many variations on laptops. Sure, they all have a chassis, keyboard, touchpad, LCD, speakers, etc. but there's essentially no upgrading. That means we're not just looking at performance but features, build quality, the display, etc. all in one review so even two "identical" notebooks from different manufacturers need reviewing. So, we now have myself, Dustin, and Vivek doing laptop reviews and we can turn out quite a few in a month. Some will like it, others will prefer something else, but we're not taking away from other reviews just to do these. Reply
Aikouka - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkI think that it's nice to see laptop reviews.
With the mobile-centric society that we have these days, people are looking to take something at least comparable to their desktop while they're on the road. I know it was quite nice when I went from an old Turion-based HP laptop to my Dell M1530... it could actually do similar things as my home-built desktop without suffering from terrible frame rates! I didn't mind so much that it wasn't as fast, but that it could still perform well enough.
What I do like is that you don't necessarily focus on laptops like that Clevo GeForce 480 SLI laptop, but rather laptops that are modestly priced and can serve as "desktop complements" rather than "desktop replacements". Reply
sanjeev - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - link"...It's a good panel with an extremely high contrast ration"
? Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkYou have no idea how many times I type "ration" instead of "ratio"! I usually catch it but it slipped through this time. All those other words have hardwired my brain to type "-tion" I guess. Reply
tech6 - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkNice review but what is it with Asus and those cryptic laptop model names that nobody can remember?
Also - there are other manufacturers of laptops, so an occasional review of a non-Asus laptop would also be welcome. Reply
freespace303 - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkAny chance you'll be reviewing the Envy 17 3d this thoroughly when it comes out? Or is HP still being stubborn? Reply
roninmagik1 - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkwhere is the dell xps review?? that's what we are all waiting for!!! =) Reply
barnett25 - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkI second that! Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkComing real soon. :-D Reply
mhorn - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkGreat article. Are there any plans to do a review of the G53JW that just came out since it's a smaller version of the G73JW but what looks to be a big upgrade over the G51JX? Reply
Kaihekoa - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkWhat's with all the laptop articles? There's one every few days which lately is much more often than desktop hardware. There are a dozen different components to a desktop with dozens of suppliers - how about some reviews on cases, power supplies, coolers, displays, etc. I barely visit Anandtech anymore because i seems like the only time I see a hardware review is for a major release from AMD/Intel/Nvidia/ATI. Reply
trengoloid - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkthe g73jw Price 1,745.03 compare to g73jw-xa1 for the price of $1,449.00 it's $300 cheaper than the g73jw and the only difference between the two is the blueray disk and 250gig and 1 year warranty and bag and mouse but remember you can upgrade the
g73jw-xa1 for a better spec than the g73jw like buy a bag and mouse for just $50 and buy a hdd 1.5 gig for just &78 and external blueray drive for $90so you get the external blue ray and the built in super dvd drive. there's a lot of upgrade you can do for the price of $300 :) Reply
Wolfpup - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkIt's 1120 cores, and the performance does suffer from it. If they do a mobile part, I'd expect it to be chopped down too-probably less than 800 cores. Either way I wouldn't expect it to be better than today's AMD part. Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkOops... corrected. I got the 5770 core count mixed up with the 6870 and somehow thought they were both 800. I've edited the final paragraph to correct the information, but ultimately the percentages are still what matters. The Northern Islands GPUs improve shader core efficiency at the same power envelope, so one NI core is worth more than one Evergreen core. Anyway, the point is that I'm not really satisfied with mobile GPU performance, at least not at the top-end.
We're at less than half of what the top desktop parts can do for both AMD and NVIDIA, and I want something more than that. 5870 has 1600 cores at 850MHz and 153.6GB/s of bandwidth while Mobile 5870 has 800 cores at 700MHz with 64GB/s of bandwidth. 480 has 480 cores at 1401MHz (700MHz for the non-shader stuff) with 177.4GB/s, but 480M has 352 cores at 850MHz (425MHz non-shader) and only 76.8GB/s. That means the best single AMD mobile GPU has roughly 41% of the computational power and bandwidth; the best single NVIDIA mobile GPU has 43-45% of the computational power and bandwidth.
Yes, they also use under half the power, but Intel manages to make a mobile CPU that has about 65% of the performance of its desktop counterpart and uses less than half the power. That's the bar I want to see mobile GPUs reach: two-thirds the performance, less than half the power. Binning already gets a lot of that, so a few tweaks and refinements ought to get the rest. :-) Reply
trengoloid - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkthe g73jw Price 1,745.03 compare to g73jw-xa1 for the price of $1,449.00 it's $300 cheaper than the g73jw and the only difference between the two is the blueray disk and 250gig and 1 year warranty and bag and mouse but remember you can upgrade the
g73jw-xa1 for a better spec than the g73jw like buy a bag and mouse for just $50 and buy a hdd 1.5 gig for just &78 and external blueray drive for $90so you get the external blue ray and the built in super dvd drive. there's a lot of upgrade you can do for the price of $300 :) Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkJust to clarify a few things that you're glossing over:
The mouse in the G73Jw is far nicer than a cheap $20 optical... it uses the new HP Voodoo gaming mouse, only with a different coating (to match the G73 "stealth" coating). Best price you can find for this sort of mouse is around $40-$50.
As for the bag, even a rather generic backpack is going to cost at least $30, and I'd probably value this one at $40 or more.
The single 750GB HDD looks like it's the Seagate ST9750420AS (about $120), compared to two 500GB Seagate drives ($66 each), so that's a wash really but I suppose it makes adding an SSD easier (if you can find a caddy). FWIW, the only perfect fit for the caddy right now appears to be [l=this one]http://www.asusparts.eu/product_info.php?cPath=676...[/l]. Yup, that's almost $40 for a stupid little metal tray!
Then there's the Blu-ray/DVDR combo drive. Those go for $140, not $90 (unless you just want Blu-ray and DVD reading, with no recording capabilities or you buy a refurbished/used drive).
Add all that up and the difference in price for the mouse, backpack, and BD-Combo alone is at least $220, or $260 if you count the cost of a drive caddy.
We're then left with the final item you neglected to mention: the 1-year versus 2-year warranty. I can easily see the extra year of warranty being worth $100.
So in summary, the XA1 isn't "better" and there's no "truth" behind this (thanks for the double post by the way); it's simply another option where you get exactly what you pay for. The A1 comes with all the extras for $300 more, or you can get the stripped down model with $350 less of "stuff". Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkHmmm... links no longer work? Let's try again, as maybe I had the format wrong. [l=http://www.asusparts.eu/product_info.php?cPath=676...]HDD caddy[/l] Reply
XiZeL - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkohh cmon asus 60gig sandforce SSD's are so cheap now why put in 2 hard drives when you could put an SSD for system and other for storage. Reply
gc_ - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkHere's a couple errors, please correct me if not:
1. Table caption on first page (!)
actual: "ASUS G73Jh-A2 Specifications"
expect: ASUS G73JW-A1 Specifications
2. Battery life on fourth page
"Idle battery life improves by 49%, Internet battery life is up 26%, and x264 playback is UP 41%."
But the graphs and numbers tell a different story: x264 playback is DOWN 27.5%:
ASUS G73JH (i7-720QM + HD5870) (75wh): 80m
ASUS G73JW (i7-740QM + 460M) (85wh): 58m
(a difference in x264 decode hardware perhaps?) Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - linkSorry, there was an error in the graphs based on old copy/paste/edit data. (The same goes for the table title, of course.) I've updated the x264 battery life result with the correct value of 113 minutes. 58 minutes is actually how long the G73Jw lasted looping 3DMark06, but performance as mentioned is 1/3 of what it gets on AC. Thanks for the corrections. :-) Reply
jchoate - Thursday, November 04, 2010 - linkCan anyone tell me if this model supports the option of RAID1? Reply
sazwqa - Thursday, November 04, 2010 - linkAs I read further, I can see that for ASUS G73JW-XA1 and ASUS G73JW-A1 use the same chasis. So is it safe to assume that it would be easy to add secondary HDD to ASUS G73JW-XA1 (the cheaper model).
Does anybody has any ideas around this? Reply
JarredWalton - Friday, November 05, 2010 - linkIf you want the HDD "properly" installed, you need the HDD caddy, which you can only buy from here right now:
It's about $40, which is really steep for a piece of thin metal, so you could either roll your own, or jury-rig something, or just let an SSD sit inside and hope it's not heavy enough to get disconnected. :-\ Reply
rom0n - Friday, November 05, 2010 - linkThe 740QM doesn't have a Intel graphics core as far as I know. It's built on 45nm nehalem. Reply
JarredWalton - Friday, November 05, 2010 - linkWhere do you see any suggestion that this has Optimus? What I *want* is quad-core with Optimus, which is why I'm waiting to see Sandy Bridge. Reply
kawatwo - Sunday, November 07, 2010 - linkI'm kind of glad my old G71 only has 1440 x 900 since the GPU will work at native res longer. I am curious how some of these hi-res panels scale too lower res for the day when you really need to go form 1080p to a lower res to still be playable. I still love my G71. It has been bulletproof from day one. Hinge is still tight, etc. I did have to order one of those 40 dollar second HD cages though all the way from Europe :) Not being able to order parts directly from the Asus US web site is kind of ridiculous. Just waiting for SSD prices to come down a little more now so I can stuff one in here. Seems like Asus could put caddy in when they build the thing but other than that I am an Asus fan. Reply
Matrices - Sunday, November 07, 2010 - linkI think you could stuff the bay with appropriately sized cardboard or adhesive foam pads (without peeling it) and still come out alright. Reply
AlucardX - Monday, November 08, 2010 - linki agree, if it's a gaming laptop why would i want 1080p when i'll hardly ever be able to run a game at native res without putting the settings way down. Reply
mcklevin - Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - linkIs there any way to keep the video card running on full when running only from the battery? Reply
JarredWalton - Friday, November 12, 2010 - linkNot that I know of. I set the system for maximum performance, turned off and GPU power saving features I could see, and the result was still less than GT 335M performance when on battery. Reply
Sadaiyappan - Wednesday, November 10, 2010 - linkCan you explain in detail all the graphics settings you used for that Dirt 2 test? I have an MSI GX660R-060US but I am not getting the scores that the MSI GX640 got. Reply
Luke2.0 - Thursday, December 09, 2010 - linkHi there,
The spec table shows 8-cell 75wh, but the battery charts all shows G73jw used a 85wh.
Which one is correct?
And after clearing this, perhaps you could re-verify the better battery life: is it due to the stronger battery (85wh against 75wh) or G73jw being a MUCH more efficient system?
Thanks. Reply


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ASUS Transformer Pad Infinity (TF700T) Reviewby Anand Lal Shimpi on 6/25/2012 3:00 AM EST
112 Comments
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dagamer34 - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkASUS Transformer Pad Infinity - 1080p + 1.6Ghz->1.3Ghz Tegra 3 + Windows RT + Touch Cover = $599 Surface RT starting price. Reply
killerclick - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkYeah, except you get a 1366x768 screen and a lack of apps. Plus you have to wait three months for it. Plus the touch cover doesn't have an extra battery. Plus how are you going to use the kickstand+touch cover on your lap?
Give it up, the Surface is a crap product, especially Surface Pro. A tablet is neither a PC nor a laptop, and Microsoft doesn't seem to understand that. Reply
Samus - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkMicrosoft understands perfectly that a tablet can both be a PC and a laptop. Reply
UpSpin - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkYou can buy such tablets already: Asus EEE EP121, Samsung Series 7 Slate. Also the future Win 8 tablets, which are both a PC, laptop and tablet will cost twice as much as the TF700.
WinRT won't be a laptop replacement, rather an inferor iPad clone, which won't give you any advantage, especially not compared to Android. Reply
name99 - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkYou may the way they understood that the SAME Windows could work just as well on a tablet and a PC (dating all the way back to 1987 and the Go tablet business)?
You mean the same way they understood that the same Windows UI could work on a phone, through all the different naming iterations of WIndows CE/Windows Mobile?
I think let's believe it when we see it. Right now what I see is that the fraction of people who LIKE Windows 8 as a PC OS is pretty damn small, which suggests a fundamental flaw in your theory. Reply
french toast - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkReally? So no one likes w8 despite the fact it isn't even on sale yet?
So you think because a company releases a poor product many moons ago.. that obviously means every product will be poor from that point onwards... Reply
rickcain2320 - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkWindows 8 has been out in beta and RC phases for quite some time now. No rave reviews by anybody other than fanbois wearing blue e t-shirts and paid bloggers. Reply
themossie - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkAnecdotally...
A software developer just paid me $40 to downgrade their Microsoft BUILD conference slate from Win8 DP (developer's preview) to Windows 7. This is the prototype for the Samsung Series 7 Slate, released to encourage Win8 developers. Not a good sign.
They encountered driver issues (will be fixed by Win8 release) and found the workflow very unpleasant (which will not!)
I played with 8 for a while first. Ugly, ugly operating system. The desktop feels gimped, because the start button returns you to Metro. I don't care about the missing start menu, but Metro isn't useful enough by itself, forcing me to the Desktop for real work - and several operations on the Desktop take you back to Metro :-(
Also, IE for Metro is completely unusable. Reply
Belard - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkWindows8 totally BLOWS chunks. Anyone who I know in RL who has used Windows8 on the desktop think its SUCKS.
I used it... it sucks. I'll go WindowsXP before I deal with Windows8.
Vista sucked because it was buggy garbage...Win8 sucks because its a crappy UI design. Reply
prophet001 - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkYou got a little foam on your lip there bud...
Little to the left... little more... there! you got it off. Reply
rickcain2320 - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkAnd thus, Microsoft completely misunderstands the tablet market by even considering it could be a laptop. Reply
jmhart - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkToo bad MS has yet to build an OS that bridges the PC/laptop gap yet. Maybe they'll pull it off with WinRT, but to date that haven't so their "understanding" means nothing. Reply
DeciusStrabo - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkThis might be the case some day, but WindowsRT won't be a laptop any more or less than the Transformer, thanks to internals being even weaker than this tablet shown here and its limitation to Metro (and Office Home version).
Only Windows 8 Pro will be really trying to bridge the gap, and then you get the usual Ultrabook issues (fan noise, heat, shorter run time, weight). So while I would love a real tablet-laptop hybrid, I'm afraid it won't be before we see Broadwell released that this dream comes true. The best are compromises (either like the Transformer here at tablet with a keyboard attachment or like the Windows 8 Pro thin a Ultrabook with a touchscreen). Reply
kpopat - Wednesday, June 27, 2012 - linkThe question is, how will you type on the Surface tablet, if you do not have a table?
(BTW - Reader of Anandtech since I think 2000 and this is the second or third times I have posted on this site - after a very long break :-D) Reply
B3an - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkAnd you dont seem to understand anything. Surface already looks vastly higher quality than this, and already has FAR more interest than any Android tablet will get. Many people dont want gimmicks, they want a real PC the size of a tablet thats actually useful.
"Plus how are you going to use the kickstand+touch cover on your lap?"
And what kind of stupid question is that?? You simply dont. But it's there when you need it, for things like actual work/typing.
When Surface is released and sells far more than any Android tablet i cant wait to laugh at people like you. Reply
3DoubleD - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkThe question still stands though... how do you use a surface tablet on your lap with the softcover keyboard?
You can't unless you brought a hard surface to prop it up on.
An ultraportable laptop/netbook/tablet that can't be used while traveling is probably the most useless thing I've ever heard of. Reply
Spunjji - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkTray table? That's where I use my laptop on trains/planes/whatever... Reply
3DoubleD - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkThat works on planes, but what about when you are waiting to board a plane?
Not all trains have the trays (I'd say most don't have them).
Bus? Car? Bench in a park?
I don't see the point of an ultra-portable that forces you to look for a tablet to use it!
The ASUS concept for the Transformer is by far the better design. Reply
french toast - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkYou don't have to use the keyboard if you don't want to, perhaps on a plane you could use the tray? Use on screen keyboard? Or perhaps by a mini Bluetooth foldup keyboard? ..
I think it's great to see some innovation going on, nothing will ever suit everyone..it can't..if you don't like it..don't buy it.
Despite that it looks like a high end device imo. Reply
Belard - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkYou know 3DoubleD... you have some issues. We get it, you don't like or need mobile devices.
I rarely use my notebook... but I do use it. It works in cars, hotels. its a portable computer. Nothing more. Go out of town, need to do articles, print reports, etc... notebook is easier to carry than a 25lb box!
I use my iPad more than my ThinkPad... I use it on the can, use on the sofa, use on the train... I can prop it or hold it in my hand... it gets about 8 hours of use... something my notebook CAN'T do.
What works for you, might not work for someone else. Reply
3DoubleD - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkAs someone who owns and uses an ASUS Transformer Prime daily (both with and without the dock), I can certainly attest to the fact that I DO like and NEED mobile devices.
Having used a tablet both alone and with a real docking keyboard I can truely say that as a productivity device, the Surface tablet is a pure gimmick unless you wrapped some bulky case around it so that you could use it on your lap. Go ahead and sit next to me on a bus/train and we'll type a long document out, edit a spreadsheet, even just browse the web while chatting with friends... I'll get twice as much done as you and I won't want to pull my hair out. If that wasn't enough, I'll also almost have twice as much battery life as you.
Yes, the softcover keyboad looks really innovative... but that doesn't make it a great idea! ASUS nailed it with the Transformer idea. If only they would ramp production up and increase availability and marketing, it's a great device. Reply
archer75 - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkThere are keyboard cases for the ipad too. How is that any different? You don't have to use the keyboard case with surface either. It's really no different in that regard. Reply
hp79 - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkFor media consumption they are about the same, or ipad is maybe better in that becuase of tons of apps. But if want to do real work, Surface with Windows RT comes with Office so it will be more useful than a dumb ipad.
I don't think even any Android tablet will be any better because a lot of the interface is still sluggish. I have a Exynos dual core equipped Galaxy Note with latest ICS and I can feel the Wacom pen is lagging and unnatural when writing. Papyrus is a app that I use since it's much lighter than Snote, but I'm still not satisfied. Even with a quad core, I feel that Android has something just not right that makes it feel sluggish on everything even though it's not suppose to be.
I'm waiting for the Surface with Windows 8 Pro. I'm a long time tablet PC user, and I know why I need it. Yes, this can replace a laptop/Ultrabook any day. At least that how I felt with having Samsung Series 7 Slate ($1300) for 5 months. If it didn't have build quality issues, I would have kept it. I'm hoping Surface has much better build quality like they mention in the video. Reply
UpSpin - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkdefine surface. There are two types. Type one is running Win 8 on Intel hardware, this will be twice as expensive as the TF700 and will lack finger friendly apps. You can buy such a tablet right now already. If those tablets don't have a pen, there's absolutely no reason to take one over a more powerful Ultrabook.
Type two is running Win RT on Qualcomm processors, incompatible with anything available right now. It not only lacks tablet apps the first year because it's a totally new platform, it also lacks powerful software you're used from Windows 7. Its hardware will be worse than iPad/Android tablets, its app selection non-existent at the beginning, its features a joke compared to Android. Reply
archer75 - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkThe development tools for windows 8 makes it very easy to make apps for x86 and ARM with the click of a button. Phone, tablet or desktop, all scaled correctly. There's a video out there where they demonstrate the tools. Also shows how windows 8 works as a tablet. If I hadn't watched that I might agree with you but after seeing that I feel windows 8 tablets will wipe the floor with android and ios. I'll see if I can dig up a link. Reply
UpSpin - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkWith Android you write the app once, it works on phone, tablet, laptop, it works on x86 and ARM, even on Windows and Blackberrys, you don't have to recompile it either. If you digg deeper it will get more complicated, because then you have to code for two/three different platform two/three different UI, that's independet of the OS you use, this depends on the fact that a tablet has a large display compared to a smartphone. The same happens as soon as you use native code. If you write the app in Java only, no issues with Android. If you write with WinRT library, no issues either. But sometimes you need native code, then it's not that easy any longer, on both platforms.
The biggest issue Win RT has, is, that it doesn't have apps in the beginning. And apps written with Win RT won't run on Win 7 machines, not even on WP7 devices. So no apps will be written before the release, because no user can use it.
The majority of people will also only upgrade to Win 8 with a new computer. I don't expect to see any large company to upgrade at all, because Win 8 doesn't offer them significant advantages compared to Win 7, not worth the trouble. So the userbase of WinRT compatible computers will be tiny.
Win 8 tablets will remain as expensive as Win 7 slates currently are and most likely more expensive than ultrabooks. So they aren't that attractive to buy. Win RT tablets will be similar priced to the iPad, but the lack of available apps, the lack of features in Win RT will slow down the sell rate.
So it can be successful, but it won't wipe the floor. Market share will slowly but steadily climb upwards, if, and only if, Android doesn't invade the Ultrabook/Desktop market, which is not that unlikely if you consider how many people and different companies develop apps for it and different hardware. Because Android is open source, it will also be the platform which gets the latest tech first, which is a big advantage. Reply
Belard - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkApple did it right... they started with a music player... then they attached a PHONE to it... so people can listen to their music.
(The MP3 market has been killed by todays phones)
Then they released the iPad, which can use many or all apps made from the iPhone (or with adjustments).
Here, MS has NO MP3, no Phone market share... The people who buy a NEW Windows Phone today have NO OS upgrades beyond 7.8. OUCH! (I just helped a guy buy a Win7 phone - the price is right and he needed it now).
So todays WP7/Wiin7 software WILL not work on Win8RT tablets... there are very few Win8RT/MetroX86 apps out... yes it will grow.
But to a customer? Why pay the same or more for a sloppy platform that has less apps, LOWER resolution and slower CPU?
The stats on this NEW ASUS (which is quite nice) is still SLOWER than an iPad3. Less GPU, less CPU, less screen resolution. WOW!
I see consumers getting confused about which WIn8 tablet will allow what.
"Okay, if I buy the $500 RT tablet... I can't run everything? What does RT mean? Retard? Return Tablet? So is this a bait and switch in that I have to buy the $1000 version to run everything? But wait, it runs warmer, heavier and has 1/3rd the battery life? Why am I buying the $1000 version for? And none of them have a screen that compared to the iPad3?" Reply
DeciusStrabo - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkYou mean a tablet which doesn't yet exist (because there are no prototypes except the two (three if you count the crashing one) shown on stage, everything else were non-functioning dummy devices as Paul Thurrot confirmed) looks better than the one you can buy next month? Reply
tdawg - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkI'm love the idea of the Surface Pro. I get the tablet form factor I have now with my Transformer for entertainment / media consumption / web surfing on the couch, travel, the ability to experience the full web just like I can from my desktop, with full access to Hulu.com, comedycentral.com, etc, (where I don't get told that I can't view their web content because I'm using a web device they don't like), and the ability to install programs I own (Lightroom and such) and my work's VPN client so I can clip a keyboard to the tablet and login to work to take care of something from home.
I like my transformer, but the prospect of a real desktop OS in this form factor is a huge step forward. The only thing that would get me to consider upgrading to another Android tablet would be a move to a full desktop OS so I'm not limited by browser user agents or device classifications by content providers. Reply
french toast - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkNo apps on day one, but you can bet your ass that will change rather rapidly, I guarantee that w8 apps will obliterate android apps in complexity and scope.
Don't forget you can use all x86 apps from windows 7 on the pro, and the rt may well have a lower res screen...bit other will consume less power..and have the ability to play more complex games on that screen.
The added battery is a nice feature for the prime, however it adds weight and android is a smartphone os on a tablet....windows 8 is going to be so much more than that. Reply
Tanclearas - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkIt will definitely be so much more. Rather than a smartphone OS on a tablet, it will be a bloated desktop OS on a tablet. Awesome!
The truth is, people on both sides of this argument are making some valid points, but are having a lot of trouble listening and understanding the validity of contrary opinions.
Only time will tell. There are things about Surface that look exciting, but there are lots of ways it can go horribly wrong. Reply
SodaAnt - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkI'm actually quite interested in the surface pro. I want something that I can pretty easily carry around, since I don't like carrying heavy things. I also really want good pen input, since I would take notes on it, and as an EE student, a lot wouldn't be words, so pen input needs to be good. Finally, I love the fact that if I have any apps on it that just don't work with metro, I can always drop back to the desktop to use it, just in case. Reply
alcalde - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkPlus the boot loader will be unlocked on the Asus vs. the Microsoft so you can install your own OS upgrades or even full desktop ARM-based Linux. Reply
Tchamber - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkHaving come from an iPad to the TFP, I think Asus has a better looking, sleaker design than Apple. I know most people don't jump ship from ios to Android, but it's nice to see a product that kind of compete. However, like the ipad2/3 features, there's not quite enough to make me want to sell my TFP and upgrade. Keep it up Asus...
Using hdmi on my bigscreen tv is awesome. Reply
sawilson - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkMy job gave me an iPad 3. When I got sick of it locking up on pages and stuttering, and the verizon 4g being enabled destroying my wifi speed when I left it on, and I got sick of pptp vpn connections dropping every 20 minutes, and I got sick of scrolling making it freeze solid for a few seconds, and I got sick of games like blooms td 4 completely locking it up... I'm really wondering how much they pay sites like this one to claim it's a great device. The lack of true multitasking alone. It's so annoying when network applications get frozen in the background and useless iOS tries to unfreeze them.
I got the TF201. It's superior to the new ipad in every single way. Even facebook is better on it, and that's not supposed to happen. You can play temple run on both and watch the stuttering mess that is the ipad drop frames while the prime has no issues at all. And that's without talking about the stupidity of having no expansion slots, or the stupid 4:3 screen, or being so technically incompetent you have to exactly double your pixel count each time because you can't code scaling graphics into your design. Do you have to buy all new software for your computer when you buy a new monitor? You can't even download anything. All that and it's heavily and uglier also.
The iPad is a toy with a broken OS on it. The Transformer line are actual desktop replacements. You can't even compare the two. You might as well compare guitar hero to a les paul. Reply
xype - Monday, June 25, 2012 - link"'m really wondering how much they pay sites like this one to claim it's a great device."
Dunno. How much are "they" paying you? It's probably about the same. Reply
sawilson - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkIt's not that big of a deal really. You can spot bad review sites with biased reviewers pretty easily. trustedreviews is the only decent review site anymore. They just didn't have any information on the new king of tablets yet. Reply
rembo666 - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkI had a similar experience. My wife got an iPad 2 for her class in school for a semester and she absolutely hated it when compared to my old Motorola Xoom (yes, the original one).
While iOS transition animations are always smooth, iPads are far from stable. On an Android tablet, while some of the UI transitions need work, you never get into a situation where the device freezes completely because the OS will force-close the app if it does. Apple wants to hide their imperfections from you, so iPad just takes a dump with no warning.
Another thing that's annoying about the iPad is that for all the hype about the well-designed apps, iOS applications are very inconsistent. You don't know who nice it is to have a consistent location of the back button until you don't have one.
I'm not saying that iPad sucks, far from it--it's a very nice device. All things considered, I can see that it could still be called the best tablet, though I prefer Android. On the desktop side, I actually prefer OSX for work, because it has a better command-line interface thanks to its BSD roots. I'm a programmer, so command line is more important for me. I'd probably prefer windows if I was doing graphics design for a living.
This religious fervor about how "magical" the iPad is does make you wonder about Apple fanatics. It's not unique to Apple fans, but Apple fanaticism does seem to have a more cult-like feel.
My point is--instead of trolling, try to make up your own damn mind. Reply
darkcrayon - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkHeh, consistent 'location' of the back button, but not consistent behavior of it when you press it. ;) Reply
Belard - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkBoth my iPad and Android phone have their CRASH and freeze moments. Both suck in different ways. Reply
semiconshawn - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkAll that typing and nothing said. Well done. Reply
Miggleness - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkYou sir, made my day. lol.
I lost my Ipad 3 last week, just ordered one last night. But this one looks promising. WIsh it came out sooner as I'm an android fan myself, just not the android hardware i've been purchasing (Shame on you Motorola!) Reply
Steelbom - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkI use my iPad 3 quite regularly and have never encountered any of the issues you've mentioned, you either had a defective unit or some really weird bugs which a restore might have fixed.
"being so technically incompetent you have to exactly double your pixel count each time because you can't code scaling graphics into your design"
What? Are you joking? Apple doubled the resolution so that everything would be seamless and as little effort as possible was required from developers. Reply
sawilson - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkI think the problem is I was trying to use it as a desktop replacement, and it's not. It's a toy. I can remember my girlfriend saying "why do you do that so much?" when I was flipping between tasks and I was explaining it was because I was trying to five things at once and she was like "It can do that?" and I had to say "No, actually it can't". I was trying to use a toy to get work done. It was my own fault really. Reply
maximumGPU - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkYeah it was your fault. she should dump you. Reply
ltphilpot - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkYet another troll post! I use my iPad to remotely manage 11 servers when I'm not on site, yup the iPad is just a toy! Reply
Belard - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkYes, it is your fault. You are holding it wrong :) Reply
Spunjji - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkSo to make everything nice for developers, the customer gets stuck with an unnecessarily high resolution screen that makes web pages look like crap and lumps them with a thicker, heavier, power guzzling device that gets worse battery life than its predecessor.
Yeah, that makes sense. Reply
Shadowmaster625 - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkYou can play bloons TD4 on an ipoop? Reply
sawilson - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkYou can until it locks up completely solid at around level 100 on extended play, or you have more than 10 supermonkeys on the screen. Unless I was holding it wrong or something. Reply
melgross - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkWhat a load of bull. Reply
ltphilpot - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkYeah I'm going to call this HOGWASH!!
My wife has an orignal iPad and I have an iPad 2. We have never experienced any of the problems that you describe. I freaking hate dishonest trolls, you guys are ridiculous.
If an app has an issue the app shuts down, in 5 years of using iOS I have never had iOS just dump on me! Apps quit and act up.
When someone refers to an iPad as a toy, that's my number one indicator that they have never had one or they just have no clue what they are doing. I work in IT and use my iPad for work to remotely manage servers (when I'm out of the office) and I get plenty of productive business done on it! Reply
Screammit - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkThis sounds more like an excuse to carry a toy around, rather than a tool to do more work. Reply
DeciusStrabo - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkI had iOS crash on my a couple of times (iPad 2). I don't hold it against it, it's just a tad less stable than my Samsung Galaxy S II on CM9, but it's perfectly useable in this regard, we're talking maybe 4 crashes in a year. Apps (even Apple Apps) crash regularly though. Not annoyingly often, but regularly. Not what I would describe as crash-happy. But also not the mythical "never crashes at all" some people like to claim online. Reply
DeciusStrabo - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkI'm one who is looking to jump ship from the (for me personally) too limiting iOS to Android (iPad 2 here). So this tablet looks mighty interesting. Reply
Lepton87 - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkWhen apple do it- The display is the most gorgeous one I have ever seen. Everything looks painted on. I won't ever look at any display the same.
When samsung does it: The text look a little crisper and that's it. Reply
weiran - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkLook at the comparison yourself, the difference is much smaller compared to the iPad 2 -> 3 transition. Reply
Spunjji - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkThat's possibly because the Android devices didn't look quite so much like crap in the first place... Reply
EnzoFX - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkYou are so lost if that's really all you got from it. Try reading the articles better. Reply
sawilson - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkYou do know that Samsung makes the screen for the iPad 3 right lol. In fact they make 50 percent of the parts in the thing.
I own the iPad3. I own the TFP. The colors and brightness and contrast are better on the TFP. The iPad3 is useless outside, and in bright light. The TFP is already a much better tablet than the iPad3. The Infinity just improves on an already industry best design. If you owned both, you'd know it just holding them. Asus makes a much better tablet than apple. Reply
xype - Monday, June 25, 2012 - link"The colors and brightness and contrast are better on the TFP."
The colors aren't. Neither are the ppi. Something that actually makes a real impression in most situations—unless for some reason your only usage of a tablet is in bright sunlight.
The TPI and iPad 3—as hardware, only—each have their strengths and weaknesses. To claim one is absolutely better at everything just sounds fanboi-ish. Or, you know, astroturfer-ish (which you happily accuse others of being above). Reply
joelypolly - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkSounds like someone is getting paid to Asus to say these things... Reply
zappb - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkI thought this product was Vaporware considering it was annouced around Jan...and still not released but Awesome screen all the same - Look at those Contrast / white / black level numbers, haven't seen a screen like that in years...and at 1920x1200.
When you look at the numbers, the significance of the screen has been glossed over in the article, - the only reason I can see for that, is perhaps that resolution sucks on Android, or apps don't scale well etc..
Lepton87 might have a point but the overall feel of the review is to wait for windows 8 tablets when perhaps the resolution will make more sense. Reply
Cali3350 - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkYour being very unfair. 1920*1080 is a great resolution and a big step up. But its not 25*18. That really IS big deal, its more than most 30 inch monitors. Your trying to equate a good improvement to a complete shift. Way to be objective yourself. Reply
sawilson - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkI own them both. I can hold them side by side. It's really hardly noticable at all until you get the tablets closer than one would use them, and once again I'm talking about the prime versus my 32gb verizon 4g iPad that work gave me. I'm happily at work now typing this on my prime because it has completely replaced my Dell laptop running windows 7. The iPad could not do this. The only reason they went with a resolution that high is they have NO CHOICE. iOS is crippled and has to use multiples of the 6 year old iphone display resolution and dimensions. That's why it has a fail 4:3 display like an old television rather than a proper 16:10 display. That's why you have to buy all new apps for it instead of the superior Android solution that mimics what your laptop or pc and mac already do. Just scale things properly. There's no such thing as a "tablet optimized" app. That's marketing. That's apple attempting to justify failure in their mobile OS design by turning it into a positive. You can tell how intelligent a tech review is by looking for terms like "tablet optimized" or "fragmented" or "retina". It means they lack the technical knowledge to understand that's just marketing meant to talk around shortcomings in their own poorly designed device. Reply
LordConrad - Monday, June 25, 2012 - link"That's why it has a fail 4:3 display like an old television rather than a proper 16:10 display."
Tablets are designed primarily as consumption devices, which is how most people use them. For such a device, I find the 4:3 aspect ratio to be superior in most respects. Internet Browsing, email, and ebooks all look much better to me on tablets with a 4:3 aspect ratio. Gaming is a wash as I don't have a preference. The only drawback is watching movies as the black bars are larger unless you zoom-in.
I have nothing against Android, I actually prefer the openness of Android, but I much prefer the paper sized 4:3 aspect ratio for handheld tablets. Reply
Lepton87 - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkAnand is such a huge apple fanboy and it shows in his articles but it shoudn't Reply
Junereth - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkwere we reading the same article here? Reply
xype - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkProbably not. Anything short of "I ONLY HAVE SEX WITH MY ANDROID TABLET FROM NOW ON!!" under Final Words is seen as definitive proof of Apple-bias by some, it seems. Reply
Cyleo - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkBefore I owned the original TF Prime I was probably inclined to agree with you. However after 6 months of use, I can see Anand's point. Where iOS is polished in almost every possible way, Android is still rough around the edges. Browser performance on Android is excellent when it works, but it also hangs a lot. Engadget for example is a website that constantly brings my TFP's browser to its knees. And I can tell you that constantly force closing your browser is pretty annoying.
There is a huge potential for Android tablet, but Asus and Google need to polish the user experience if they really want to compete with Apple. Reply
Tchamber - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkI had problems browsing with the ipad, too. The difference is that on my TFP the browser rights itself rather than having to close it and open again. Multitasking is easier too, no double tapping anything. Sure ICS could be polished up a bit, but as far as capability its at least on par with IOS. IPad still has performance edge and battery, but thats getting smaller all the time. Reply
sawilson - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkiOS is a lot less stable than ICS. You don't have to take my world for it. Crittercism did the research. Safari is the buggiest piece of sh*t I've used in my life on iOS, and it's a damn shame because it's one of the finest browsers I've used when on OSX. It's shame apple can't just get OSX working on the ipad. Then it would be worth it. Reply
DeciusStrabo - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkI would say they are about the same for me. Maybe, maybe Android is a bit more stable, but I would attribute this to the fine gentlemen and -women working at CM9. Neither is annoying with the crashes, so I'd say they are both perfectly usable. Reply
sprockkets - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkPut Chrome on it - for whatever reason the browser on Asus' tablets is not up to par. Why when every other ICS browser works fine is beyond me... Reply
Belard - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkGet OPERA for Android then... much better than the built in browser. Reply
Belard - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkOOPS! Even for my Samsung galaxy phone, the Opera browser is excellent. I get tabbed browsing, better entry for text fields. Reply
lilmoe - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkI actually HATE Apple products myself. But Anand is anything but a fanboy... I know a fanboy when i see one. Engadget, TB, and other websites "tech websites" have lots of them.
Anyway. While I seriously hate admitting this. "Currently", the only tablet worth buying if the user is concerned about "user experience" and fluidity is in fact the iPad. I personally think the iPad 2,4 is the best deal out there; i could care less for higher "non-standard" resolutions.
But Anand threw a bomb at the end of his article here. The transformer line needs a much more fluid and "functional" OS. That being, Windows 8. I agree. Windows 8 ARM/x86 tablets are going to show us a whole new dimension in computing and fluidity. Be prepared to see most Anandtech authors being called Windows/Microsoft fanboys by the end of the year. Reply
BabelHuber - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkAFAIK Windows 8 RT is locked, like the iPad is.
This means e.g. no sideloading of Apps, you have to rely on Microsoft's App store.
I even haven't rooted my TF Prime since I haven't seen a need so far.
Of course you can jailbreak the iPad, probably you will be able to do so with Windows RT devices. BUT what disadvantages do you get? On Android I have none, except of voiding my warranty.
The TF series consists of real PCs, meaning that PERSONAL is a part of it since I can do whatever I see fit with my device.
A part of this are standard interfaces like HDMI, SD cards and USB. I wouldn't want to miss this.
So the bottom line is: Until I haven't seen detailled tests of WIndows RT tablets, it remains to be seen whether Windows RT will be 'better' at all.
As a sindenote: WIth WIndows Surface, MS is directly competing with its OEMs. It remains to be seen how OEMs will react.
Samsung and HTC already made it clear that they prefer Android over WIndows Phone for smartphones. The tablet race is still open, Microsoft has no user base whatsoever. Reply
xype - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkThe thing is that tablets for most people are appliances. The group that actually wants a PC in a tablet form factor is not that large. The group that couldn't care less as long as they don't have to spend time tinkering with the device is much, much larger.
Of course an argument can be made that iOS can be jailbroken (and Windows RT will probably be, too), and there certainly is a group of people out there who prefers an Apple device with the "openess" they expect from a PC.
And that's all ok! Android is a perfect fit for the "tinkerers" and thanks to Apple setting expectations pretty high, they'll get a great tablet/phone user experience to boot, as Android needs to stay competitive with iOS. It's like the mythical "Linux on the Desktop", but with more apps. :oP
Windows 8/RT's impact remains to be seen. Their approach certainly is novel and if Microsoft can manage to get enough developers on board, they might end up with a real alternative. I'm only afraid they will end up being too schizophrenic for that, trying to do it all and ending up doing nothing well enough for people to give a shit. Reply
BabelHuber - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkI did not talk about 'tinkering'. Tinkering for me means installing Custom ROMs, overclocking, replacing system files etc.
Everybody who is able to download a program for Windows/ OS X and install it can do this also with Android.
No need for rooting, no need for tinkering. Just downloading a file, going to the file browser and selecting the downloaded file is very easy.
If an OS does not provide this, it is not a full OS, but a restricted one. Reply
Screammit - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linksadly, "tinkering" for 90% of the public is to change their background picture. Reply
Belard - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - link" I'm only afraid they will end up being too schizophrenic for that, trying to do it all and ending up doing nothing well enough for people to give a shit."
BINGO! Reply
andrewaggb - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkPersonally I haven't been able to use either for work. The TF + dock is almost usable, but it doesn't have enough of the apps I use (I don't want lame substitutes) and ultimately the tf+dock is almost a netbook... so I just use my much more powerful laptop. The ipad is not work worthy. And apple doesn't try to market it that way, so I'm ok with that. I love the ipad for what it is, instant-on, relax on the couch.
Surface may be suitable for light work, though I'm not sure how it will work in your lap, so the asus version will probably be better. But I suspect it'll take a good year for the apps to be available for ARM, so at launch I'd be looking at an x86 version... and it doesn't look like AMD or Intel has a tablet winner SOC for the fall. Ivy Bridge will do, but haswell would have been better. And an ultra low voltage trinity maybe?
I'm not certain that when the dust settles I'm going to want to work on a tablet with a keyboard anyways. I like the idea of one less device, but maybe it's a dream. I think phone,tablet,laptop,desktop,xbox/appletv, all play a somewhat different role and I'll probably keep buying all of them.
I like the concept of running windows 8 on everything, but I'm currently mixing android,apple,and lots of microsoft and I'm getting along just fine :-) Reply
kmmatney - Monday, June 25, 2012 - link" BUT what disadvantages do you get? On Android I have none, except of voiding my warranty."
I have my iPad 2 Jailbroken, and there are no disadvantages - at least none that I've ever come across. The advantage is being able to install RetinaPad, iFile, NES emulators with Wiimote support, and a few UI customization apps. Reply
DeciusStrabo - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkMy iPad 2 slowed down a lot when I jailbroke it and installed some jailbroken software. It was rather annoying and the reason I went back into Apple's golden cage. No such issue with rooted/custom-ROM Android, where you rather see a stability and speed increase, not a decrease. Reply
BabelHuber - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkI miss tests of actual games on the TF Infinity.
The TF Prime is a real joy in this regard. Shadowgun, GTA3, Max Payne, N:OV.A. 3, everything is running smooth like butter, but only at 720p.
How does the TF Infinity play these games? With its 1080p resolution the GPU has much more to do, especially the Pixel Shaders.
So, does the higher-clocked Tegra 3 with its enhanced bandwith compensate for the higher screen resolution? Reply
XZerg - Monday, June 25, 2012 - link^^ when? Reply
bleh0 - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkI love the form factor of the Transformer series but it needs RT. With Nvidia being the ARM partner for Microsoft at the moment we might see better battery life and performance out of RT then under Android. As always I'll be waiting patiently for the Anandtech review when the device is released. Reply
jwcalla - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkMaybe slapping Ubuntu for Android would help seal the deal on this thing. You get the "hybrid device" feel that Windows is going for, plus you have the Android app ecosystem to work with.
Quad-core Cortex A15s will be interesting as you could run two operating systems (like Ubuntu and Android) simultaneously. And Ubuntu is surprisingly mature and smooth on ARM w/ GPU acceleration. Reply
riottime - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkit's alright tablet but i'll wait for win8 surface. i own ep121 and it's still working great with i5 cpu. i might just upgrade the os on it to win8 when that comes out instead of buying a brand new 'surface' tablet. as for android, my samsung player 4 is sufficient. :) Reply
carneyjo - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkI love the newest iPad, but I cannot deny this product looks amazing. I may just have to own both an Android and iOS tablet! On a side note, the two aforementioned tablets both blow away Surface. Not impressed with it at all. Reply
MichaelD - Monday, June 25, 2012 - link1. "It doesn't run Windows 8", but will it run Win7?
2. The durability of these tablets concerns me. What kind of material covers the screen? My Adroid smartphone (Motorola Atrix) has Corning Gorilla Glass over it and after more than a year there's not a scratch on it. You would think tablet manufacturers would want to make them as durable as possible...this Gorilla Glass is really awesome stuff. Reply
DeciusStrabo - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkIt's covered by glossy Gorilla Glass, like 90% of mobile devices with a big exposed screen. Reply
crankerchick - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkWow, I don't take Anand for an iPad fanboy in the least. Perhaps this article lacks the zeal of the iPad review, but that alone doesn't make someone a fanboy. I think he still presents balanced reviews of other devices, even if his preference is to the iPad.
Don't act like the display on the iPad isn't amazing. The results right in this article show that the new iPad display bests the TF Infinity display in color gamut and color accuracy, and other reviews of the TF Infinity (there's aren't many yet of course), say that display also goes to the crapper outdoors.
I have the new iPad as I was tired of waiting for the TF Infinity, but I am still anxiously awaiting the TF Infinity release as I would very much like to leave the walled garden land of no external storage, more costly devices that do less, 4:3 silliness, and no background updating of apps. But I won't do that if the browsing experience isn't improved in Android between Jelly Bean and the hardware of the Prime--especially not when the tablet app space on Android is awful (compared to iOS) so more time is spent on the browser.
Perhaps some of you with the TF Prime can weigh in, but my experience with the browser for scrolling and entering text in forms (like typing in forums) has been less than stellar on my XOOM, slightly improved with Chrome and Android 4.0, but still not as smooth and fluid as the iPad even with the TF Prime.
Everything about Android is better for me, but first and foremost I use the tablet to browse the web, play an occasional game, and waste time with social networking. It's not a business tool for me--that's what my laptop and/or desktop is for and I don't desire to have my tablet take it's place. Right now, the iPad works better for me at delivering a consistently smooth vehicle for media consumption but I really want the TF Infinity to take this title because I so want to come back to Android even with it's crappy tablet appspace.
A video review (or even text comparison) of the browser and text input experience on the TF Infinity versus the new iPad would MUCH APPRECIATED. *ahem* Anand are you listening? I will pay money for this since it saves me from having to BUY both and return/sell one! Reply
smartypnt4 - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkI am right there with you. I went ahead and got an iPad 3 because I was tired of waiting for this to release.
I would VERY much like to had expandable storage on a laptop, and a wider screen for watching the videos on said expandable storage. And I want widgets. I have a Nexus One and the widgets on it are wonderful.
That said, the iPad 3 is a GREAT device for stuff like internet browsing and especially reading. I'd be interested to see if the apps for reading like Kindle and Nook have gotten good enough to be as fluid as iBooks on the iPad.
And yes, a video review or a regular review comparing the finer points between the two would be so incredibly helpful.
In essence: +1 to everything you said. Reply
dwade123 - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkPerformance: slower than iPad
Screen: worse than iPad
Software: less than iPad
Overall: inferior to iPad Reply
andrewaggb - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linklol. Well when you put it like that :-)
The argument over the the screen is that ipad3 screen is overkill and you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between 1920x1200 and 2048x1536 in a 10" device.
And software is debatable :-). I don't think there is much remarkable about iOS ... or Android. I think Win8 has the most interesting software stack, but surface is already behind on the hardware curve and app selection will be low initially. And if you go x86, then you might rather just get a win8 ultrabook.
The Transformer also has connectors though, like hdmi, usb, sd. And a real keyboard dock, (if you can find a use for it). Reply
Belard - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkTrue... to some extent. But Apple wanted to keep the aspect ratio a standard... It makes things easier for their developers. still, the screen resolution isn't as good.
A more complete list:
CPU Performance = Worse than iPad 2 / 3
Screen resolution = Worse than iPad3
GPU performance = Worse than iPad3 / 2 (Which is over a year old)
Battery life = Worse than iPad3 / 2
Software = Worse than Worse than iPad3 / 2 /1
Price = No better than iPad 3.
Runs Android = WIN!
So far, it looks like the Windows8/RT whatever will also be WORSE in all areas. Reply
Lepton87 - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkCPU performance = better than iPad
GPU performance = worse than iPad
Screen= you if like 4:3 than Ipad but if you like 16:10 than definitely TPI
Personally I prefer 16:10 to 4:3 aspect ratio because of that I would prefer TPI screen to the ipad screen Reply
Belard - Wednesday, June 27, 2012 - linkEr... no. The browser test was faster on the ASUS... not by much. The spider test hits the CPU harder.... and the iPad 2 & 3 were easily faster.
Yes, I and others prefer the 4:3 screen. I tend to use it in portrait mode, like a book... rather than watch videos. Again, if you are INTO videos... and you need a VIDEO player... then you DON'T need a full blown OS to watch videos, play music and browse the web.
Hence, the $1000 over-priced slate-thingy will crash and burn like it has for the past 12 years. Reply
smartypnt4 - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkSo, I understand that you can only do so much in one review, but come on...
Where are your physical impressions of the device? I understand that the exterior is virtually identical to the Transformer Prime, but still. It'd be nice to even get a "go see the Tranformer Prime review for my detailed impressions on build quality, etc." Where are the battery life figures with the dock? I know it takes a lot of time to test everything, but you waited much longer after all the other review sites to post your iPad 3 and rMBP review. If you don't have a problem waiting on the Apple products, why rush this one out as soon as the NDA lifts?
Sorry if it sounds like I'm whining. I just want the same kind of coverage devoted to Android's new flagship tablet as I saw with the new Macbook Pro or that I saw in the iPad 3 review. Both of those had reviews that were twice as long. Granted, the rMBP (love that acronym you used btw) was a very large upgrade, but the iPad 3 didn't differ appreciably from the iPad 2 in any area other than the screen, similarly to how the Infinity differs from the Prime.
Other than not covering the build quality aspect, though, great review! I really want to see one of these things in action and compare it to my iPad 3 and see how it stacks up. I know the pixel density isn't on par with the iPad, but I'm getting rather tired of the iOS UI on a tablet. I wish I could have some good widgets. Reply
bryanb - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkWhy is Windows and Microsoft mentioned so much in the article? This article should have been reviewing the updated Transformer Prime running Android.
Please keep the Microsoft fanboy rants in their own articles so that we can ignore them easier. Reply
sprockkets - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkTF Prime is taken off market or is going to be cheaper, then will the other plastic body ones be cheaper??? Reply
Possum - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkDid ASUS change anything with the way their tablets are assembled and filtered through QC? I went through one Transformer Prime and three Transformer TF300's, and all had horrible backlight bleed issues. Reply
fic2 - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkIs it just me that doesn't really see the use in a rear facing camera? Holding up a big tablet (compared to a phone or actual camera) to take a picture is kind of awkward. I just don't really see the need for my tablet or laptop to have a camera other than for skype, etc. Reply
Tujan - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkHow did the Internet (Browser) benches get Benched. By which Internet connectivity type being utilized ?
- Wi-fi
- Tethered Phone
- Some other
There was not any USB port said on the Tablet . Unless I missed this spec. somewhere. I have not seen any HDMI Wimax (via Internet Service Provider). In order to run a wireless connection.
Is this intended to be marketed this way. A localized Internet device via wi-fi etc. Certainly looks intentional w/o a USB connector.
Did not see a processor percentage for use of HDMI to external Display/HDTV either. Reply
Tujan - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkP.S. Idea being is this being marketed to that you/me/us/we .. can go "shopping" for wi-fi spots ? Reply
Ryan Smith - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkAll of the browser benchmarks were over WiFi. Reply
sonelone - Monday, June 25, 2012 - linkPlease review the N56VZ next. It is a very capable laptop and offers Macbook Pro level performance at $1300. Reply
Godofmosquitos - Tuesday, June 26, 2012 - linkAny word on when the Infinity Pad we're actually waiting for will arrive? I ofc mean the 3G version of this device, sporting Qualcomm's S4 Krait instead of Tegra 3, likely sporting both better performance and much better battery life than what we see here... Reply
TareX - Wednesday, June 27, 2012 - linkAt 1080p with this PPI, it'll be a shame to not carry around 10 GB 1080p movies.... all 6 of them. Reply
KingL - Tuesday, July 10, 2012 - linkAsus is thee best manufacturer of tablet PCs. Thank you and goodbye. Reply

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AMD CES 2013 Press Event Live Blogby Anand Lal Shimpi on 1/7/2013 7:05 PM EST
- Posted in
- CPUs
- Trade Shows
57 Comments
Back to Article
Seawolf2 - Monday, January 07, 2013 - linkIn the last few weeks I have started to worry about the future of AMD. The new Opterons were released about two months ago, and except for the per-release publicity, little has been published in the internet about these processors. For the many of us (small business people) that do not need to run the Bank of America client database they look like a good value proposition, but please allow independent testers like Anand to test them and provide hard data, in which we could base our purchase decisions. Reply
JonnyDough - Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - linkOnly in the last few weeks? Smart investors dumped their stock over a year ago. That's why it went from $8 a share down to $2 a share...
I guess you don't get on tech sites much huh? Reply
Beenthere - Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - linkStock price has nothing to do with product quality. The 6300 series Opterons have been well received and are an excellent value and low power consumption design. For the past 40 years...armchair exSPERTS have been proclaiming that AMD is going out of business.
I guess you don't read much about PC tech, huh?
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6430/amd-launches-op... Reply
cknobman - Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - linkYeah and smart investors (like myself) picked up a sh!tload of AMD stock when it was going for $2 as share.
Your misguided if you think AMD is going under or if you wont see their stock climb back up. I think it will be around $4 by years end. Reply
wumpus - Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - linkI seriously wonder how smart an invester had to be to not be aware of any better stock than AMD in the last 10 years or so. Since at least the release of Athlon, the best buys were AMD's chips but Intel's stock (the bloated prices of Intel's chips help cause both to be true).
I can't really say that about AMD's chips anymore. I hope they (or even just the graphics side) can stay in business. Reply
CeriseCogburn - Monday, January 14, 2013 - linkWe WON'T see this kind of endless pictures advertisement for ANY OTHER COMPANY at all here for the entire 2013 CES event.
It just won't happen.
This is the big time AMD love. Enjoy it amd fanboys, you are many.
A thousand breaks here and you still whine and lie.
It is incredible. Reply
jwcalla - Monday, January 07, 2013 - linkThey are certainly all-in on Windows platforms. Reply
Alexvrb - Monday, January 07, 2013 - linkYeah, if I didn't know better I'd say these were x86 chips intended to go toe-to-toe with other x86 chips! Oh wait... Reply
xcomvic - Monday, January 07, 2013 - linkI know is PC Fanboys don't care much but I was kinda hoping Nvidia would provide the GPU for the Xbox Loop since PS4 was getting AMD. For competition ya know? Reply
staticx57 - Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - linkCompetition is great, but AMD needs the money from MS more than Nvidia does. I hope it helps them say relevant. Reply
tipoo - Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - linkI suspect AMD is easier to work with on the console front. Microsoft moved away from them because they wouldn't licence out the whole chip like AMD would, allowing them to shrink it and modify it as needed. I'm not sure if Nvidia still does that. Reply
piroroadkill - Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - linkXbox Infinity has been rumoured to have an AMD GPU for a very long time.
Also, backwards compat - they are probably using the old GPU for that, so you may as well work with AMD for that hardware while you're at it. Reply
Rontalk - Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - linkThat is good, consoles will get decent CPU cores and excellent graphics. AMD deserves to get some market share, which also good for us, because a strong competition is always welcome! Of course not for Nvidia, ha, ha, ha. Reply
CeriseCogburn - Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - linkYet amd will make crap console junk, and then the crappy games that are crappy because amd cheap junk is powering them, will be ported over the desktop PC world, and screw us all !
Thank you amd for being so pathetic that you get a pity **** console job to save your *** !
LOL - It's funny and too true - thanks for screwing everyone again amd, not just the console world, but desktop gaming as well !
I love saving losers, it makes the world so much better... N O T Reply
tipoo - Monday, January 07, 2013 - linkSo the Radeon 8000 series is out...There was very little hoopla over it. Did they even mention it? From a glimpse I can maybe tell why, it looks the exact same as the 7k series?
http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/oe... Reply
Ryan Smith - Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - linkhttp://www.anandtech.com/show/6570/amds-annual-gpu... Reply
JonnyDough - Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - linkTo answer it without the link from author Ryan Smith (hey that's my name too, except for the Smith part!) -
It's a rebadge of the HD 7000 series. Same cards, new number. No, what you're feeling is not exclusive to only you. We all feel gyped. Reply
Lolimaster - Monday, January 07, 2013 - linkFor hardware designs you don't built them base on "competition" but on what's best. You'll never want to kill compatibility with past games unless there's no other choice. Reply
naylamp - Monday, January 07, 2013 - linkSo Nvidia is unveiling project shield, new Tegra4 and AMD is just presenting new laptops? I don't see a bright future for AMD. Reply
Principle - Monday, January 07, 2013 - linkAre you completely out of touch? Did you eat paint chips as a child? Lets see, AMD released a tablet chip that likely beats Tegra 4, AMD released mobile and desktop GPUs that dominate Nvidia's, low power great selling APUs that compete with Intel core i3s, and a 20-40% increase in Trinity performance for high performance APUs is a huge jump that will take it over Core i5s. This is before releasing a lower feature size and revamped Steamroller design later in the year, whic his another 40% performance increase. So not sure what the heck you were reading. Reply
JonnyDough - Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - linkThat's fantastic.
Meanwhile, Intel is mass producing 22nm chips with 14nm on the horizon. Still want to discuss.
P.S. Try to sound like less of an AMD Fanboy.
P.P.S. I own several AMD systems, except for my most recent and most powerful system - a Core i5 Ivy. I wonder why? Reply
JonnyDough - Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - linkUgh. We really need the edit button back. I've been saying this for the last...year (along with a lot of other people!).
I meant "still want to discuss power saving?"
Oh, and AMD is not "dominating" NV's desktop/mobile chips. What planet do you live on? Reply
CeriseCogburn - Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - linkHe lives on planet DAMD.
DAMD stupid
DAMD liar
DAMD fanboy
Grade ? D-AMD Reply
rocketbuddha - Monday, January 07, 2013 - linkMan! Intel has been in 22nm for 18 mths now.
Difficult to believe that they are able to get a 20-40% increase over Trinity and better battery life. Do they have a RCM 2.0 design or what. Looks like Richland provides a bigger update over Trinity that Trinity over Llano. And this too for a design that was never officially in the books till 2H2012? Too good to be true! Reply
duploxxx - Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - link18 months??? a new year doesn't mean that you need to calculate additional 12 months.. Few ivy bridge laptop cpu released 23apr2012 so that is 8months and few weeks.
And Intel owns its fabs, amd has to work with other companies and wait for there node to be ready.
everyone is always bashing against amd, what many people don't see is that intel is very aggressive pushing there portfolio to OEM hw providers in a way to reduce AMD platforms even demanding what an OEM can and can't with there new Intel HW. while they might have the right solutions they are also always more expensive. time will arrive that this will affect us consumers because of lack portfolio choice and higher prices. but hey who cares they all think they need an i7 for daily work or reviewers always need to test the most high-end cpu as if all the ones below have the same advantage.... go with the flow, typical consumers like buying an ipad or iphone. Reply
Spunjji - Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - linkYou pretty much said it here. Intel have the technology advantage but their product strategies are offensive. Reply
CeriseCogburn - Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - linkLOL - there's the big chip on the shoulder that blows from your little piehole.
Now I know. Reply
Rontalk - Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - linkAnd what the benefit of 22nm? A Core i5 Ivy Bridge is more power hungry as an AMD A10 Trinity chip, while you get quad core CPU from AMD and twice as GPU performance! Reply
silverblue - Thursday, January 10, 2013 - linkYes, but far lower CPU performance, if truth be told. Reply
Rontalk - Thursday, January 10, 2013 - linkNo, Quad Core AMD Trinity as fast as Dual Core Core i5! Reply
Assimilator87 - Monday, January 07, 2013 - linkThe wait for Kaveri is driving me crazy. I can't believe Richland is on 32nm, which probably means it's gonna be a huge disappointment, and the desktop/server lineup is just in limbo while the world passes by them. Reply
Principle - Monday, January 07, 2013 - linkRichland at 20-40% performance increase a disappointment????? Are you crazy? Thats on the same 32nm process as Trinity, so quite amazing, what Trinity was supposed to be to begin with. Just confirming a 2013 release for Kaveri is great news. You see, now all of the Trinity laptops can just be refreshed FAST in 1H13 with Richland APUs and 8000M GPUs, no design changes for OEMs. Thats huge for volume shipments fast. And everyone who already got a Trinity can upgrade their laptops with Richlands for what they wanted to begin with.
I am waiting for Kaveri though. Not stressing for new laptop yet anyway. I have a recent Vishera dekstop with an HD7850 GPU waiting for an HD8870 xfire mate in 2013, and Steamroller FX CPU in 2014.
My GF might be getting a Quad core Kabini touch notebook very soon though. Reply
silverblue - Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - linkI'm a little confused with these names. Wasn't Richland supposedly the original codename for the low-end Piledriver APUs? Reply
Rontalk - Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - linkRichland is Trinity 2.0 Reply
silverblue - Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - linkI know, but it looks like a recycled codename, that's all. :) Reply
mayankleoboy1 - Monday, January 07, 2013 - link"The really exciting stuff will be what happens around 2015"
WTF, AMD ? Reply
kyuu - Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - linkThat's Anand talking. I don't see what's not exciting about AMD's 2013 line-up. Temash is much more exciting than Tegra 4 or Intel's tablet chips, IMO.
Hell, I can't wait to see some reviews of that Vizio tablet using Z-60. If the battery life is good and the price is right, that's the tablet I want (until Temash arrives). Reply
Spunjji - Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - linkAgreed. I won't care about Intel in tablets until they stop peddling awful GPU solutions. People keep singing the praises of their 7W chips (partially deservedly so) with only the briefest mentions of what they'll have to do to the graphics hardware portion to hit that TDP. It will not be pretty.
Tegra 4, meanwhile, is benefiting from the early PR start that nVidia always give their SOCs. We'll have to wait to see if it actually hits theoretical performance or not. Tegra 3 is hardly a dog, but it is one of the worst performing quad-core A9 SOCs of its generation. Reply
CeriseCogburn - Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - link" Tegra 3 is hardly a dog, but it is one of the worst performing quad-core A9 SOCs of its generation. "
If it's one of the worst a9 quads, how is it not a dog ?
Please do tell about the other a9 quads that spank it... please prove it to me... I can hardly wait.... forever Reply
Beenthere - Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - linkThese substantial performance improvements in low power APUs bodes well for AMD's sales and future products such as Kaveri and Steamroller desktop CPUs. If AMD releases Kaveri in Q4 of '13, then the Steamroller CPU may launch in Q1 of '14?
As far as surround display, I don't have any interest but if that's a market segment that AMD can profit from, great, go for it. Reply
yannigr - Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - linkAMD's news are just OK. Nothing exciting. I guess they do as much as they can we no money. Marketing on the other hand was never a strong card for AMD. Give them 10 billion dollars and they will fail again in marketing. Someone should had explain them why you don't take your home cinema equipment to do a presentation at CES but, nevermind...
Anyway, waiting for Temash. This is the most interesting hardware from AMD because no one trusts an Intel gpu no matter where he/she finds it, in a desktop, in a laptop or now in a tablet. Reply
JPForums - Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - link
Anyway, waiting for Temash. This is the most interesting hardware from AMD because no one trusts an Intel gpu no matter where he/she finds it, in a desktop, in a laptop or now in a tablet.
Just to be clear, Intel's tablet GPU isn't Intel designed. It is an Imagination Technologies design. You know, the same company behind the graphics on many Android phones, tablets, and the entire Apple phone/tablet stack. The particular design they are using is slow, but just as proven as any of their other chips. I don't see a trust issue here.
That said, I'm also eagerly awaiting Temash. Tile based deferred rendering will only go so far. In my opinion, Immediate Mode Rendering will succeed it in the tablet space when geometries get sufficiently complex. nVidia is ahead of the curve on this one and pushing the market towards IMR. Qualcomm seems to understand this transitory period the best as their chips can render both Tile and IMR modes. Even ARM only defers parts of the pipe while using IMR on the rest. I have to wonder how Imagination will adapt when the market starts the major shift. ATi will likely pursue the IMR path, and by the time they hit market, the transition will probably already be in swing. This will allow them to take full advantage of their architecture immediately, taking advantage of the diligent work nVidia had put in to get developers on board. Further, unlike Tegra, they have the additional advantage of supporting a plethora of legacy x86 games that are already designed for GPU that run in IMR mode. I have no doubt they can keep GPU idle and near idle power extremely low either. I just hope the CPU portion is fast enough to make productivity applications feel less like a netbook and more like a laptop while keeping power low enough to actually use as a tablet. Reply
JPForums - Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - link
... and by the time they hit market, the transition will probably already be in swing.
Err, scratch that. For some reason I had it in my head that these would launch Q42013/Q12014. That said, there are still the legacy x86 titles, the fact that there isn't an overwhelming abundance of tile based deferred rendering games in the Win8/RT market place, and the fact that most(all?) WinRT devices sport an IMR capable chip. It'll be interesting to see where things pan out. Reply
Spunjji - Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - link"Just to be clear, Intel's tablet GPU isn't Intel designed. It is an Imagination Technologies design. You know, the same company behind the graphics on many Android phones, tablets, and the entire Apple phone/tablet stack. The particular design they are using is slow, but just as proven as any of their other chips. I don't see a trust issue here."
The trust issue comes from the software side of things. GMA500 / 600 / etc. have terrible performance and application compatibility that was never repaired. Unfortunately I haven't yet used a single Intel solution that didn't suffer from some software related drawback or another. Reply
CeriseCogburn - Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - linkIt's not a gaming chip.
What was incompatible that should have been compatible ?
What software related drawbacks ?
How about some real info? Reply
Ananke - Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - linkAfter this presentation, I am pretty sure AMD will not make it to 2015.
I am no particular brand fan, I actually own mostly their products, but from a professional point, I see no light for them. They will simply not make enough money to survive until some breakthrough happens. The ARM tide will kill them. Reply
Rontalk - Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - linkActually AMD is coming up. They have the most efficient APUs for Ultramobile laptops (Trinity, Richland, Kaveri), for Tablets (Hondo, Temash), they will rule the Clouds and Consoles, such as PS4 and XBoX 720. Reply
Ananke - Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - linkIndustry expects growth in low energy data servers, small/home data servers, cheap tablets, cheap smart phones.
Ultramobile laptops, expensive tablets and consoles are not expected to have growth in revenue anytime soon - hence, unless AMD doubles or triples its market there, will just not make enough revenue.
I agree, they have very refined products now, just saying the marketing environment they enter is too tough. Reply
artk2219 - Thursday, January 10, 2013 - linkAh but did you forget the purchase of Seamicro a little while ago? They're already in those low power data center and home server markets, they're developing future products for them right now, tames and hondo will be in those cheap tablets, but your right about the smart phone market, I guess you can be everywhere at once. At least not when they are as small as they are, honestly things wouldn't be so bad for them if Intel weren't so ready and able to bulldoze everyone else into compliance with their standards. Reply
CeriseCogburn - Tuesday, January 15, 2013 - linkAMD fanboys destroyed amd. With fanboys like that, no enemies are needed.
They constantly begged for lower priced cheapo crap.
They constantly hung on until nVidia or Intel drove the amd price on GPU or CPU's into the poorboy dirt then robbed AMD with a discount, all the while hating on Intel and nVida.
They screamed for open source and attacked nVidia instead of demanding AMD MAN UP in the software and drivers area.
They constantly lied online, in all forums, and were raging little beasts, instead of directing the faults of amd gpu's and cpu's AT AMD, everyone else was attacked while they coddled their crap product and gave it every break known to man and aliens.
Thus - amd is near death. It's PR produced fanboys have just about destroyed it. Reply
brucethemoose - Tuesday, January 08, 2013 - linkWHY didn't you write anything about the U38N?!?
An undervoltable A10 with decent graphics, a decent battery, a 1080p IPS touchscreen with a backlit keyboard, a 128gb SSD AND an HDD, all wrapped up in a Zenbook chassis? I haven't been so excited over a computer since I put my desktop together a long while back, but I can't seem to dig up much info about it.
Still throwing money at the screen... Did they say anything about it? Reply
Spunjji - Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - linkArgh! Just looked at a review for that and it was great right until I got to the RAM... 2GB soldered to the board? Really, Asus? Oh well, it's not like the A10 needs the memory bandwidth of dual-channel RAM or anything... oh wait. *facepalm* Reply
Rontalk - Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - linkYeah, that is true. Asus screwed up that laptop with the 2GB soldered RAM. It only could worse with Single-Channel Memory. Reply
brucethemoose - Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - linkAccording to the site, some models could come with 4gb of 1600mhz onboard memory. Reply
brucethemoose - Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - linkAlong with an additional DIMM slot. Reply
R3MF - Wednesday, January 09, 2013 - link"Richland looks like Trinity with a software update"
What, no GCN?
I had presumed that Richland was another 32nm piledriver APU, only with GCN.
Whereas Kaveri is steamroller + GCN with all the jazzy HSA integration between the two.
I suppose it makes sense, as GCN is built for 28nm, but it is disappointing.
It also ties in with the rumour that the steambox uses a 384 shader GPU........... Reply
silverblue - Thursday, January 10, 2013 - linkThe comparison between Kabini and Brazos is interesting. Kabini will feature 2 to 4 Jaguar cores, so let's for argument's sake read that as 4. The Jaguar core also features a massive increase in support for ISAs as well as an improved FPU, despite being far smaller than Brazos (3.1mm2 compared to 4.9mm2).
If we're only talking a 50% boost in general, doesn't that strike anybody else as a little worrisome, assuming we're talking 4-core Kabini A6 vs. a 2-core Zacate?
Has it been confirmed how many memory channels Kabini will have access to? The support appears to have gone up to 1866MHz which still might indicate memory constraints especially considering how much higher clocked the GPU is compared to the first gen APUs. Reply


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