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Inside Intel's Next Unit of Computing (DC3217BY)by Anand Lal Shimpi on 11/9/2012 1:28 PM EST
- Posted in
- CPUs
- Systems
- Intel
- Next Unit of Computing
93 Comments
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gus6464 - Friday, November 09, 2012 - link. Reply
silverblue - Friday, November 09, 2012 - link...it just seems a little expensive. Liking the form factor and the sheer power it has, though. Reply
DanNeely - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkYou always pay a significant price premium for the smallest possible size. Reply
MichaelD - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkI agree with these comments and would like to add "Where's the USB 3.0?" Not that you really NEED it with this type of "all in one" but in this day and age there's really no excuse for not having it, especially with this pricepoint. Thunderbolt is nice, but I just don't see it taking over market share. USB is "the" peripheral connectivity standard. Reply
MadMan007 - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkAgreed, USB 3.0 is the major thing that's missing. The chipset even has the ports built in. Reply
hrrmph - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkAs soon as they have an all-USB 3.0 version plus the T-Bolt port, I'm in!
There's plenty of places where something compact like this would be very useful to me. Reply
nathanddrews - Saturday, November 10, 2012 - linkI'm disappointed that you have to choose between Gigabit LAN and Thunderbolt. Why not both? Seems odd. Reply
Herp Derpson - Saturday, November 10, 2012 - linkAnd why would anyone choose TB? Reply
Origin64 - Sunday, November 11, 2012 - linkExactly, what's wrong with DVI, USB, and 3.5mm jacks? Reply
Alexvrb - Sunday, November 11, 2012 - linkAfter reading the comparison table, that's exactly the thought I had. Who would NEED Thunderbolt, but find GBE to be frivolous?
Regarding USB 3.0, they removed it to highlight Thunderbolt. I would love for USB 4.0 to show up sometime soon. Reply
irieblue - Sunday, November 11, 2012 - linkYou guys really don't understand how thunderbolt works. You can run USB 3 , gigabit Ethernet over thunderbolt . Go look at apples TB Ethernet dongle or their monitor which hooks up via TB and has Ethernet , and USB 3 on the back of the monitor. TB is all you need. It is essentially a cable version of PCI express. As you already know you can buy a pci card that does whatever it is you want to add in. Now plug in card vendors just need to switch to a thunderbolt form factor. It really isn't much work for hw vendors.
Apple doesn't own TB, it is a standard they developed with intel.
The only problem I have with this platform is it uses too much power. Intel needs to get the power down substantially. Reply
Pneumothorax - Sunday, November 11, 2012 - linkYou don't understand how angry many of us 2011 macbook owners who have TB, but no USB 3.0! Apple refuses to this day to offer a cheap TB-USB 3.0 adapter and the apple Cinema display you're talking about? USB 2.0! Please research on how useless TB is unless you like to spend $500 on an external RAID setup. Reply
irieblue - Monday, November 12, 2012 - linkMatrox has a product for you then.. Since TB is faster than USB 3, why go that route for connecting hd's. don't you want the fastest transfers?
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-57521651-263/... Reply
8steve8 - Saturday, November 10, 2012 - linkyeah, I'm sure board real estate/cost/complexity were issues.. but I'd buy one if it had both.
Wi-Fi is not reliable/consistent enough in my experience, and being stuck without displayport/tb worries me. I'd rather have dp than hdmi any day (since its easy to go from dp to hdmi, but not vice versa)
This platform is exciting, and will definitely get more interesting with haswell... but I can't help but think they could have gone with a 35W processor rather than a 17W one... even at the cost of a little height/weight... the mac mini has a 35w.
so strange it doesn't have usb3, hard to believe considering its in the chipset.
anand, I'd love some analysis of the power adapter including, is it quiet (buzzing?), I assume the power brick is fanless?
I think the smarter solution is to put the psu in the device, like the mac mini did... power bricks are a pain, and most of them are horribly low quality. Reply
sna2 - Monday, November 12, 2012 - linkhttp://www.attro.com/embedded/NANO-QM770.htm Reply
runeks - Monday, September 02, 2013 - linkThis board costs $455.00 *without* a CPU, and only has one DIMM slot, for a maximum of 8 GB RAM. It has two GbE ports and USB 3.0 though, but that's a hefty price to pay for only that. Reply
sna2 - Monday, November 12, 2012 - linkhttp://www.attro.com/embedded/NANO-QM770.htm Reply
UltraWide - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkI can finally replace my Optiplex 960 SFF. :) Reply
Falloutboy - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkso this thing will cost 500ish all set and done and only a bit smaller than an microitx based computer? Reply
inket - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkand significantly less powerful than the base Mac mini. Reply
amdwilliam1985 - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkThat's okay, windows 7/8 is significantly more advance than OSX. Reply
manual123 - Saturday, November 10, 2012 - linkin which ways? Reply
heffeque - Saturday, November 10, 2012 - linkYou DO know that you can run Win 7/8 natively on a Mac Mini, right? Reply
DanNeely - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkAssuming you meant miniITX this is still several times smaller, and the smallest possible form factor always has major price premium, performance penalty, or both.
Looking at cases on mini-box.com the shortest I see is 20x24x5.4cm; 4.9x times the volume; taking a slightly thicker one with a narrower footprint 19x21x6.2cm gives 4.7x times the volume.
This is midway between nanoITX 12x12cm and picoITX 10x7.2; but with a CPU that smokes the VIA offerings that dominate those form factors. Reply
SetiroN - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkwhich only confirms what he was saying: this things will cost 500ish all set and done and is only a bit smaller than a mini-itx system. speaking in terms of x times the volume to make it sound more is amusing, reality is that for 4inches on the side you lose a lot of performance and expandability while spending more.
a mac mini measures 3,6x19,7x19,7 centimeters. i'd really like to see the desk where this nuc fits and the mini doesn't
the real deal here is power consumption, but honestly speaking pulling 10 or 30w at idle doesn't make much of a difference to most, while at load the additional performance makes up for it. and hey, you can always underclock+undervolt the desktop ivy.
i understand it'll have its small niche, but mini-itx is better for the large majority of people. Reply
name99 - Friday, November 09, 2012 - link"the real deal here is power consumption, but honestly speaking pulling 10 or 30w at idle doesn't make much of a difference to most, while at load the additional performance makes up for it. "
Current mac mini's idle power is 11W.
The real difference seems to be
(a) do you hate Apple?
(b) do you have a desperate need to tinker inside the box? Reply
Penti - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkMini is basically more thinker friendly than this! All you can really change is WiFi-card, SO-DIMM sticks and mSATA drive.
No difference there. Accept that you can actually fit two 2.5" drives in a Mac mini. It also contains FW800, mDP, HDMI, USB3, GbE Ethernet, and so on which Intel's boards don't. One difference is that the wireless card is on a small custom proprietary board in the Mac Mini. Reply
amdwilliam1985 - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkAnd you need to install windows 7 or 8 over OSX to make it a complete package. Reply
MonkeyPaw - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkDude. We get it. You hate Apple. Reply
Penti - Saturday, November 10, 2012 - linkGreat that it's legal to use the OEM-license (only for 8 unfortunately) if you accept the separate personal use-clause, on the Mac Mini then. You can also use it for virtual machines if your not a zealot who is not open to even try to run anything else as their main os. Either way you can tinker and semi-customize your Mac Mini. If you want something more flexible you need to look at larger machines. Reply
Wardrop - Sunday, November 11, 2012 - linkI don't mean to be an ass, but the saying is "all said and done". People I work with get catch phrases and idioms wrong every day. These are people I've worked with for 5 years, but I figure telling them after this amount of time will probably do more damage than it mends. Reply
drwhoglius - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkWill you be able to use Apple's Thunderbolt to Gigabit Ethernet adapter with this? Reply
EnzoFX - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkIs that the point of it not having Gigabit ethernet? Otherwise it seems strange. Reply
drwhoglius - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linklive in a hi-rise where every unit has the same Century Link ZyXel wireless router, speeds are hopelessly slow. have xbox+ps3 both wired up on ethernet, and a rats nest of cables behind my tv. Reply
DanNeely - Sunday, November 11, 2012 - linkConfigure your ISPs crappy modem/router in bridge mode; connect a good router to it, and enjoy wifi that doesn't suck. With probably >95% of your neighbors too mundane to do the same picking a 5 ghz capable router will probably give completely unimpeded spectrum for whatever devices you have that support it. Reply
DanNeely - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkAs packed as the board is I'd guess there wasn't enough physical room for the ethernet controller and the thunderbolt controller because I don't see an empty space for a chip. We'd need to see an ethernet version of the board to be sure (look for a different chip where the TB one is on this model); and it looks like that gallery is all of the thunderbolt model. Reply
CaptainDoug - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkIf you're going to go this small, I say just get an AIO. I get that this is much more useful for those that keep their nice screen and just update the computer but they're making AIOs that are customizable. Reply
kylewat - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkI guess thunderbolt must be really cool if this thing is supposed to work. I think they should have soldered on a wifi-bluetooth combo chip which everyone will be buying with one of these. It would broaden the appeal and allow you to lower cost by bundling them together. Why else buy a mini-pc other than to have wireless use of it? Reply
balsmanian - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkAny idea how I could buy one of these to build a system? Reply
balsmanian - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkNevermind, just re-read the article and saw the early dec availability on Amazon/newegg. Reply
schizoide - Friday, November 09, 2012 - link$320 - NUC
$010 - power cord
$110 - cheapest mSATA SSD on newegg over 100GB, muskhkin atlas
And of course unless you plan to run linux you need to pay for the OS too, $140 for windows 8 64bit OEM, so we're looking at $597.
Compare that to the cheapest mac mini at $599. Hmm, it costs two bucks more.
Note that it's not directly comparable. The cheapest mac mini does not have the "fusion drive", it's a 500GB slow laptop drive. You need to step up to the $799 model to get the fusion drive, although of course you can pop the $110 SSD into the mac mini too, that $200 also gets you a quadcore i7 and is actually quite a fast little computer. Speaking of speed, the base model mac mini has a dramatically faster CPU with a 2.5Ghz ivy bridge i5.
It's not as deep but much wider and longer. Unlike the NUC you get both gig-e and thunderbolt, and it has both an IR receiver built in for HTPC usage and wifi built-in too.
This is an interesting attempt from intel, but the price just isn't low enough for a home-built option to be a compelling alternative to buying something you know is going to be well-built and fully supported from apple. Reply
schizoide - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkActually I was wrong, the fusion drive is another $250 even on the higher-end model. But you can still spend the $110 and pop your own SSD into the base model mac mini to replace the pokey 500GB laptop drive. Then you can get a cheap usb3 enclosure and use that drive for mass storage, if you like. Reply
MadMan007 - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkYeah...out of all the MAc and Apple products, the Mac Mini is the one that stands out in terms of value to comparable products. Even comparing to ITX systems it isn't a huge premium when it's all said and done. Reply
A5 - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkI seriously doubt that Intel is putting this out to try to take over the Mac Mini's market. I'd imagine it's mostly a proof-of-concept to show the various OEMs what can be done with the ULV Ivy Bridge CPUs.
I'm betting we'll see one of the Taiwanese OEMs announce a cheaper NUC box at the next CES or Computex. Reply
schizoide - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkIf they get it down to $300 with wifi, gig-e, 4GB RAM, an infrared receiver, and a ~100ish GB SSD, it will be a really compelling product. I'd buy one myself for a HTPC. This is really far off that target, though. Reply
TheinsanegamerN - Tuesday, September 03, 2013 - linkkeep in mind a single i5-4250u is $342. 128 GB ssds commonly go for $100. id bet prices from oems would be $550-600 minimum Reply
MadMan007 - Friday, November 09, 2012 - link(I wouldn't count Win 8 at $140 though. No enterprising enthusiast is going to buy the full OEM version.) Reply
schizoide - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkIf you're going to install the upgrade version on a new computer, why not just pirate it in the first place and pay $0? Either you do it right or you don't, IMO. Reply
Penti - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkYeah it's either licensed or not. Even if you run a business any review won't really care why it isn't licensed correctly just that it isn't. Software isn't quite the same thing as works of music and moving pictures. Here in Sweden not only BSA makes the difference but even the law. Microsoft doesn't care if you use a real media or not, they only care if it's licensed to run on your computer not if it has been copied unauthorized. Think about all the volume keys that have been floated around, all through the years they work just fine on a legal/official media of the software.
Windows 8 none Pro is about $100, and remember you have to accept the personal use license separately it's not included in the EULA!
http://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/licensing/sblicens... Reply
schizoide - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkRight, I guess you could go for non-pro and save $40. But I wouldn't. I really missed poledit, remote desktop, etc, in that crappy vista. Reply
MadMan007 - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkI have plenty of qualifying OS licenses, heck Windows XP qualifies, why would I buy the OEM version when upgrade is $40? Reply
schizoide - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkSorry, by "enterprising" I assumed you meant that you were installing the upgrade clean, which is not difficult to do. Reply
MadMan007 - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkThat is precisely what I meant. I'm not about to go and install an OS just to replace it out for an upgrade, but I still have a valid upgrade because of the license. Reply
MadMan007 - Friday, November 09, 2012 - link(addition to the above post: I just can't use the XP license any more since it's been 'upgraded.') Reply
Shadowmaster625 - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkNo turbo basically makes this thing into a pentium B970. And guess how much an entire pentium B970/B980 notebook costs? You guessed it. LESS than this thing! Yeah, what a great product.... Reply
MonkeyPaw - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linki3s have never had turboboost. It has SMT, HD 4000 graphics and quicksync. Reply
Kjella - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkReplacing that 17W ULV Ivy Bridge with a 10W ULV Haswell should be a pretty big upgrade, this box seems more like a concept product. The smaller the system is, the less I want to fiddle with it. Reply
Penti - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkIt's a nice little unit, maybe a bit too DIY and barebone for some who are not tinkerers. I like it that it's kinda barebone though. Too bad you would need a Thunderbolt dock as expensive as the whole computer though :) I'm guessing the TB also does DP? If it doesn't do video I would not understand why it didn't ship with a simple TB to GigE adapter. If you want storage plus GbE network adapter you really need something like a Thunderbolt Express Dock as cheap storage devices doesn't carry any logic to daisy chain thunderbolt. If it ever shows up as it doesn't appear to be, but that might just be the sad and early stage of Thunderbolt support on Windows devices.
I like it though, as a client. I like that it's quite barebone and you have to add you own mSATA drive, WiFi card and SO-DIMM's. First of those doesn't have a huge retail market however. With the new personal use clause you should even be able to get legal Windows 8 in there (and pass it on if you like/need to) for your own use cheaply. Otherwise you have mostly been referred to running warez on barebones. Current versions however doesn't seem to do monitor over Thunderbolt and HDMI do mean it is limited to 1920x1200 monitors, though two 24" screens aren't too bad. It's low-end Ivy Ultrabook performance for less. So it should be competent enough for some use. Could be great little development and or test or lab machines with MSDN Windows too. Certainly a enthusiast platform just put out for fun here.
Too bad it isn't vPro / IAMT enabled. It does however seem to support up to 16GB of DRAM according to the manual. No damn soldered DRAM! I'd rather them having solder on the WiFi controller if they wish to save space, hell even the SSD if it is generous enough to start with, those things aren't really configurable or ordered with different parts any way. Hell some systems even have iSSD integrated plus HDD. If they really wished to save space they could have just gone with a really high-end iSSD type product for all the storage, and use the space to fit two SO-DIMM slots. iSSD's are up to at least 128GB now. Or just use a 1.8" SSD/HDD if you really need to put a drive in there but are concerned enough for space that you don't put SO-DIMM slots in there while having full sized drives stealing much more space. You could probably fit four SO-DIMM's in the space of a 2.5" drive. Some ultrabooks with partly soldered DRAM does even have iSSD for cache and 2.5" drive. 256GB mSATA SSD instead of that would be nice. I would be surprise if they can't produce a board with say QS77, i5-3427U, TB-controller, two MiniPCIe/one w mSATA compatibility, two SO-DIMM slots and GbE ethernet all that fits in a 13-inch ultrabook. Skip VGA and HDMI if you really need to save a few mm space. At least have mDP in there. 3427U is even vPro enabled and thus enables nicer management for corp's. You could build really great low power platform today! Reply
sna2 - Monday, November 12, 2012 - linkindustrial pico itx size boards exist with all the options you are talking about ...
even better CPU options , like standared mobile ivybridge socket.
and make your own small notebook grade box :D
also google Qseven and comexpress Modules with Ivy CPU options
and the pico itx carrier boards. Reply
Wolfpup - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkHeck, for a split second I thought about getting one just to run Folding @ Home one 24/7...but no ability to add Blu Ray? Lame. No Ethernet? Lame. Not even the ability to use a normal 2.5" hard drive? Err...lame.
It's neat, but... geez, just slightly bigger and it could be vastly more useful. Reply
Kepe - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkRead the article before posting =)
There are two versions, the other one has Thunderbolt, the other has Gigabit Ethernet. Reply
etamin - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkSFF just got a whole lot more interesting. Hell, this is so small it is practically a precursor to a DIY notebook solution! Reply
gerrygraff - Saturday, November 10, 2012 - linkRather than compare this to a Mac mini, it is more reasonable to compare this to something you can build. The nearest thing is (retail prices used):
Antec ISK 110 Case- $ 80.00 (also has VESA mount and includes 90w power supply) (8.7" x 3.1" x 8.4")
Gigabyte GA-H77N-WIFI- $130.00 (mini motherboard that already has bluetooth & WIFI Card)
Intel i3-3225 CPU- $144.00 (has intel 4000 graphics)
Total 354.00
With both you will still need to add RAM and storage, You can then choose whatever OS you want (including Mac OS X) Reply
schizoide - Saturday, November 10, 2012 - linkThe i3-3225 is much faster than the ULV chip in the NUC.
Also, the mac mini is much nicer... so if they're close to the same price, obviously you'd go for the mac mini, right? Reply
sna2 - Monday, November 12, 2012 - linkno i would go for this
(hint : check the VGA :) ) Reply
Darkstone - Saturday, November 10, 2012 - linkYou can get an Celeron B540 from newegg for just €49, which is about 50% faster than the i3 in the NUC.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8... Reply
schizoide - Saturday, November 10, 2012 - linkThe G540 has "intel HD" graphics which are sub HD2000. Probably unsatisfactory. Reply
DanNeely - Saturday, November 10, 2012 - linkThe B540 is also a 65W part; way too hot for an enclosure that tiny. Reply
MadMan007 - Saturday, November 10, 2012 - linkI bet it would be fine in the ISK 110. Thaat case's entire side above the motherborad, and thus above the motherboard fan, is one big grill. The cooler would be getting straight ambient air. Reply
gedster314 - Saturday, November 10, 2012 - linkAnyone know if a 2011 MacBookAir ssd will work for in the msata slot on this? I have one that's collecting dust. I'm planning on buying this to replace my Acer Revo 1600. The Revo is getting a little old and has problems running the new Ubuntu LTS. Reply
etamin - Sunday, November 11, 2012 - linkdefinitely not. Apple uses a proprietary connector on their MBA SSDs. Reply
sna2 - Monday, November 12, 2012 - linkdont buy this intel. it is OVerpriced
take a look at this (has mobile 7850 GPU as well
or this with only ivy bridge and no ATI 7850
Intel is a waste of money.
or if you want smaller you can use Mbile tiny motherboards like this
and add your own choice of mobile ivy CPU ...
have fun Reply
sheh - Saturday, November 10, 2012 - linkIt's a nice start. I hope it'll help drive low-noise and low-power x86 PCs more into mainstream. Small is nice to a certain degree, but I'd rather have bigger with less limitations. (And why no socketed notebook CPUs?)
Waiting for:
* Passive cooling.
* 2.5" (or better, 3.5") bay.
* Better price. Reply
sna2 - Monday, November 12, 2012 - linkyou mean this one ?
http://www.attro.com/embedded/NANO-QM770.htm Reply
GotThumbs - Saturday, November 10, 2012 - linkI've gone through all the comments so far and have YET to see anyone question as to why an Atom and AMD APU E2-1800 wasn't included for a market comparison.
Just take a look at the size of the ZBoxNano by Zotac at 5 x 5 x 1.7 at the price of 229.00. 299.00 gets you 2 gigs or ram and a 320Gig HD. Oh, and the adapter IS included. Seems like Intel wants to try using Apples approach to forced up-selling through accessories. Thanks Apple for showing other companies that screwing the consumer can be very profitable.
NewEgg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
Is this just a teaser and can we expect a more through/expanded comparison down the road? Inquiring minds would like to know. Reply
sna2 - Monday, November 12, 2012 - linkthe Asrock is the winner here with Moblie 7850 ATI card !!
plus you can take a look at this one
and make your own small notebook grade box :D Reply
araczynski - Saturday, November 10, 2012 - linkso besides a capable HTPC, what good is this? Apple's steamrolling all over the pc with their polished hardware (i think their software is still the suck though), ARM is gaining more and more popularity/power, tablets are the latest craze, and all these guys can come up with is DIY kits for the geek crowd? (of which i am one).
seriously? this is what the big wigs at intel thought would be a wise R&D investment? Reply
DanNeely - Sunday, November 11, 2012 - linkI think this is mainly a shot across Via's bow. They've had the x86 embedded market for industrial control systems locked up for years with ther nano/picoITX systems. Intel is now moving into that market. The immediate threat is probably fairly small because RS232 is still a popular bitblasting datalink; but adding a few of those ports to one of these enclosures shouldn't be a difficult next step. Reply
sna2 - Monday, November 12, 2012 - linkwho said so ?
Pico itx mobos existed for years for intel and AMD cpu
eve nSnady bridge mobile and today ivy Bridge mobile
and check my post in this forum in details
google comexpress ivy bridge boards and carriers.
actually Intel is VERY LATER here
I made my own pico itx machines using i3 mobiles 2 years ago. Reply
Origin64 - Sunday, November 11, 2012 - linkI'd rather buy ten Raspberries than one of these. Reply
draggos - Monday, November 12, 2012 - linkThis is advertised as a solution for "stunning visuals and performance & superior processing and graphics".
How exactly is the DC3217BY designed to support HTPC video performance in connection with home networking storage arrays - via WiFi? I suppose a NAS with Gigabit Ethernet is one of the common storage solutions for home networking.
Do you think that Intel has consider as a viable (performance-wise) solution the option of TB to Gigabit Ethernet? Reply
sna2 - Monday, November 12, 2012 - linkthe Asrock is the winner here with Moblie 7850 ATI card !!
plus you can take a look at this one
and make your own small notebook grade box :D Reply
sna2 - Monday, November 12, 2012 - linkIntel is not the first here.
Actually , Mobile motherboards exist for i3/i5/i7 in even smaller factor already.. like Qseven and Pico itx , ...
and are more powerfull than this one , accepts ANY ivy bridge Mobile cpu upto i7 quad core Mobile running at 2.9Ghz and 17-45 watts max TDP depending on the chip you choose.
those motherboards are from 10cmX7cm to 10x10 to 16x12
and they have all the options needed.
the only reason people dont know about them , is that they are industrial motherboards. but since Intel is selling this thing for 400$ Barebone , then it is in the same Category...
here is an example
this motherboard is smaler than mini Itx , takes any Mobile CPU you choose and full of options. the size is 16x12 ..
you can get a standard comn Express Module , and a Com express Carrier Board.
com express carrier Boards example :
and ANY Comexpress Board like this
or this
OR the Smaller Qseven Boards and their carriers.
(still waiting for Qseven ivy boards)
the Qseven carrier
another one
( still looking for Qseven ivy bridge mdoules)
but if you want a Ready Mobo without carriers and etc this one
as for cases , look for Pico Itx Cases they are around looong ago.
Intel fails here :)
sna2 - Monday, November 12, 2012 - link. Reply
Onerusone - Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - linkI don't need it to be polished aluminum but glossy red plastic? Apparently all the effort in design went into the guts of it if this is the shipping version. Guess I could live with stuffed behind my monitor and spray painted it black...Ha!
draggos - Thursday, November 15, 2012 - linkLenovo IdeaCentre Q190 goes for $350 with the i3 processor.
We'll have to see the exact hw setup of Q190 but I have a feeling that the NUC will be more expensive on comparable hw Reply
DesktopMan - Thursday, November 15, 2012 - linkSome tests of the video decoder would be nice. Also since it doesn't support 10bit h264, a software playback test of that would make sense. Reply
dealcorn - Sunday, November 25, 2012 - linkPerspective matters. Where I live electricity is expensive (like Denmark) and the combination of efficiency and HD 4000 graphics that are well supported in Linux make this rather appealing as a pure media consumption device with light Internet browsing. All media is streamed from a server to which I am hardwired and the server has spare capacity on its SSD. I think I will set up a DC3217IYE as a disk-less box with a remote boot drive on SSD. For media consumption and browsing, the CPU and graphics should be more than OK while maintaining reasonable power consumption. The whole deal can be put together with 2 GB of 1.35 memory for well under $350 in that this box is currently listed on Amazon at $308. Separately, I posted a question in the forums to see if I can draw any insight on how disk-less to SSD may affect boot times. I should let that simmer for a day or so before I pull the plug. It is a shame there is no IR port. Reply
chrissybabe - Friday, December 14, 2012 - linkIf it came with a network port AND a Thunderbolt port AND at least a couple of USB 3 to give some choices I would buy at least 2 of these tomorrow. Couldn't care less about wireless since I have too many wireless devices already. So as it is no thanks.
Somewhat like the ipad - could have been a superlative device but instead (deliberately ?) crippled. Reply
provo44 - Sunday, December 16, 2012 - linkIntel NUC Concept Design
http://www.benjaminsohn.de/project/intel-nuc-conce... Reply
provo44 - Monday, December 17, 2012 - linkA third model (DCCP487DYE) will hit the market during the first quarter of 2013.
http://technology-corner.com/intel-next-unit-of-co... Reply
provo44 - Sunday, February 10, 2013 - linkWill Windows XP work in the NUC? TIA Reply
Rakesh Tawker - Thursday, August 15, 2013 - linkHi..Can I Remote the NUC PC from my Laptop ??
Any idea How to do it ??? Reply


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In the race to break a news story first, sometimes media outlets reveal inaccurate or sensitive information. This happened this week, when several well-known news organizations revealed the identity of the young man at the center of the sexual abuse allegations against Sesame Street's Elmo puppeteer Kevin Clash.
Even though the young man is an adult now, he was a teenager when either the abuse or relationship occurred with Clash, who was in his mid-40s. The legal age of consent varies by state so it may not have been illegal behavior according to the statute, but clearly there was an age, maturity, and power differential between these two people that certainly makes for a potentially abusive dynamic.
Typically, in media reports of sexual abuse a victim's identity is protected. The Associated Press Stylebook has guidelines around privacy stating, "Do not identify, in text or through images, persons who say they have been sexually assaulted, and use discretion in naming victims of other extremely severe abuse. … AP may also consider identifying the victim of a sexual assault if the individual comes forward publicly and agrees to be identified."
Did the young man in this case agree to be identified? Several news sources not only identified him by name, but some revealed details about his address and family. The National Sexual Violence Resource Center (NSVRC) does not believe that revealing a potential victim's name, address and other identifying information adds anything substantial to the story; and yet it clearly can place that person in a vulnerable or even dangerous situation.
Yes, the young man recanted, however, it doesn't mean nothing happened. Recanting occurs for a variety of reasons. In some high-profile cases, a victim may worry about how the media scrutiny will impact their lives/families, or some fear that they will not be believed. Others may face retaliation or fear for their safety.
In many high-profile cases, victims are accused of making false allegations. Studies show the prevalence of false reporting is low ‑- between 2% and 10% -- yet, when survivors of sexual abuse come forward, many face intense scrutiny and barriers. Sadly, oftentimes, their own character is called into question. All of these things can negatively impact survivors and prevent them from coming forward. Furthermore, the way the media reports on these events, also impacts whether other victims will come forward in future cases.
Sexual violence is a complex issue. As members of the media, journalists play a critical role in illuminating the truth for people. Over the past year, there has been an increase in media coverage of child sexual abuse, mostly due to the Jerry Sandusky case. Journalists across the country accurately reported on that case while exercising sensitivity toward victims' identities. We want journalists to keep reporting on this topic, but we ask that it be done in an accurate, responsible manner. NSVRC has developed a packet for journalists about reporting on sexual violence; it can be viewed online at http://nsvrc.org/publications/nsvrc-publications-information-packets/media-packet.
Founded by the Pennsylvania Coalition Against Rape in 2000, NSVRC identifies, develops and disseminates resources regarding all aspects of sexual violence prevention and intervention. For more information, visit www.nsvrc.org, www.facebook.com/nsvrc and www.twitter.com/nsvrc


text:
In this captivating coloring book, artist Anna Pomaska combines the entertaining challenge of finding cleverly concealed objects in a drawing with the fun-filled activity of coloring. Along the way, youngsters are introduced to the letters of the alphabet and objects beginning with those letters. All subjects are described in the caption below each ready-to-color tableau; solutions are included. Paperback, 32 pages.
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Notebook: Frazier on fire at Auburn
Published: Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 7:17 p.m.
Last Modified: Saturday, February 16, 2013 at 7:17 p.m.
AUBURN, Ala. — Florida senior Mike Rosario has few doubts every time he watches freshman teammate Michael Frazier II shoot the basketball.
"Once Fraz' gets the ball and shoots, I'm already looking to run back," Rosario said. "That's how confident I am in him when he just shoots the ball. I just know. I don't think about it, I just know it's going in."
Frazier scored a career-high 18 points in UF's 83-52 win over Auburn on Saturday at Auburn Arena. The 6-foot-4 Frazier bounced back from one of his worst games of the season to go 6-of-7 from 3-point range.
"My teammates did a great job of finding me," Frazier said. "We did a great job of moving the ball, playing together and fortunately the ball found me and I was able to knock down open shots."
Frazier has emerged as a consistent offensive weapon for Florida off the bench with his shooting ability. He's shooting 60 percent (24-of-40) from 3-point range in SEC play this season.
It hasn't come without hard work. Rosario pointed out how hard Frazier works before games with Florida assistant coach Rashon Burno.
"He breaks a sweat before the game," Rosario said. "That shows me a lot of how dedicated he is knowing he's in a situation where we're going to need him to come through and he's going to be prepared."
Another milestone for Boynton
Florida senior Kenny Boynton reached another significant milestone Saturday against Auburn. The Pompano Beach native made his 129th career start, the most for a player in UF history.
Boynton passed former NBA center Andrew DeClercq, who started 128 career games for Florida from 1992-95.
"For Kenny, there's going to be a lot of milestones just because he's been a starter from day one," Florida coach Billy Donovan said. "He's absorbed a lot of minutes, he's scored, he's gotten assists. He's going to leave here as one of the all-time great players to play in this program."
With 16 points against Auburn, Boynton also eclipsed 1,900 points for his UF career. Boynton has 1,902 career points, 28 shy of Andrew Moten (1,930) for second on UF's all-time scoring list.
Florida improved to 7-2 on the road this season. "Going on the road and performing like this is hard for some teams like us because we have a target on us, being one of the top teams in the country and top teams in our conference," Rosario said. "I feel like it takes a lot of concentration and preparation to go on the road and get a victory." Florida is 2-1 in neutral-site games, with its lone loss coming to Kansas State in Kansas City. … The Gators won their eighth game by 30 points or more this season.
Reader comments posted to this article may be published in our print edition. All rights reserved. This copyrighted material may not be re-published without permission. Links are encouraged.


text:
OCZ Vertex 4 Review (256GB, 512GB)by Anand Lal Shimpi on 4/4/2012 9:00 AM EST
127 Comments
Back to Article
ViviTheMage - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkmmmmmm, iops. Reply
LB-ID - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkIt's still a drive from OCZ, a company that has repeatedly and blatantly used its customer base as unpaid beta testers, and lambasted them when they dared to complain about it. No thank you. The fastest drive in the world is of no use to me if it's causing my computer to BSOD constantly. I'll be spending my money and that of my many clients on drives with proven track records for reliability and excellent customer service, both sadly lacking in OCZ products. Reply
hackztor - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkOcz is the only one that actually got to the bottom of the bsod screen on sandforce. In the end it was sandforce fault because they made the controller. All the other companies waited and then used the fix. Intel is the exception who waited a whole year before releasing them to validate but they still use sandforce controllers. Vertex4 is the 1st time that ocz now owns the controller and firmware that goes into the product. I hope this will prove to be better and have quicker fixes. Ocz is always the first to release the technology so expect some issues, but thats what people take for early adopting. I had 5 vertex 1 die on me and then they upgraded me to a vertex2. Just purchased the 4 so hope all goes well. Reply
taltamir - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - link"Ocz is the only one that actually got to the bottom of the bsod screen on sandforce."
Actually that was intel. Reply
hackztor - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkNot true. Ocz pushed sandforce to finally find the issue based on what the users were telling ocz while sandforce kept trying to deny the issue and could not find it in a lab environment. If you see further down I said intel waited a year with validation going on. Reply
breakSSD - Thursday, April 05, 2012 - linkYou have no idea about ssd validation if you think Ocz pushed sandforce for BSOD.The fact is that Intel found this and kept sandforce busy with fixing the issue while ocz even though knowing the issue release agility 3. Anyways doesn't matter who takes the credit, people know where to go when it comes to reliability. Reply
iceman98343 - Friday, April 06, 2012 - linkyou do realize intel 520s are now getting bsods?! Reply
Obsoleet - Saturday, April 07, 2012 - linkYou go to Samsung for reliability. Iceman is correct, word is spreading of more 520 stability issues. If you want the fastest, most reliable SSD get the 830 as Anand recommends. Reply
Einy0 - Saturday, April 07, 2012 - linkAt work we have deployed about 50 - 80GB Intel 320 Series Drives and so far nearly 60 - 64GB Samsung 830 Drives. The Samsung drives are screamers but we've seen a lot of strange issues with the Samsung drives that we never had with the Intel drives. We have not had a single drive from either company fail or come DOA. That amazes me personally, not a single dud. We've literally had dozens of faculty members come ask us what we did to their computer that made it so fast all of a sudden. The issues we've had with the Samsung drives about 1 in 10 causes Windows mini-setup to freeze. We re-image the drive again it works just fine. We are thinking maybe the compatibility with some SATA controllers isn't as robust on the Samsung drives as it is on the Intel drives. Reply
gandx - Tuesday, April 24, 2012 - linkOr choose a SSD with a marvell controller like the Corsair Performance Pro or Plextor M3P. Both are fast and stable. I would never choose a SSD with sandforce again after using a vertex 3 for a while with lot or problems and i'm obviously not the only one. Reply
danwat1234 - Wednesday, January 21, 2015 - linkThe Vertex 4 does have a Marvell controller, with Indilinx firmware Reply
Denithor - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkYou seem to have forgotten Octane, 'the 1st time that ocz now owns the controller and firmware that goes into the product.'
And, as far as I've heard, Intel was the only one to truly fix the BSOD associated with the SandForce controller. Others made improvements and reduced the frequency but Intel downright fixed it. Reply
id_aaa - Wednesday, April 11, 2012 - linkI'm not buying a controlled, I'm buying an SSD, and they delivered a crappy SSD, why should I trust OCZ now? Reply
semo - Thursday, April 05, 2012 - linkYep, OCZ are smiley and I won't buy a product from them as long as there are competitive alternatives. They still haven't issued a mass recall of their first 25nm drives which did not have as much capacity as per their specs. OCZ blamed it on Sandforce's RAISE technology and waited for customers to contact them before replacing the affected SSDs. No one knows how many of those duds were sold and how many were replaced. Reply
kristof007 - Thursday, April 05, 2012 - linkI've been using my Vertex 2 for just over 2 years now. 120GB model. Not a single hiccup. I'd call that fairly reliable. Reply
PaulSabey - Wednesday, February 27, 2013 - linkMy 120gb Vertex 2 (bought March 2011) had been running without a hiccup for nearly two years. Then yesterday it just spontaneously failed (BIOS could not even see the drive as present). I guess you can think your drive is totally reliable .. until the moment it fails. Reply
Breach1337 - Saturday, April 07, 2012 - linkSame here.Vertex 3 owner - although a great product for months I had a unfit for purpose product, no support and no fix from OCZ and on top of that people were treated with utter condescending arrogance on the forums, asked to effectively troubleshoot the product and if you refused to do that you were not cooperating. Sorry, but never OCZ for me ever again. Reply
pattycake0147 - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkI can live with the lower read speeds, but the power consumption is too high. That said if reliability holds up, sounds like I'll be getting a new drive this year.
Great review Anand! Reply
ViviTheMage - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkIf this was going in a laptop, MAYBE I would be concerned, but what's a few watts for some more tasty iops? Reply
pattycake0147 - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkA laptop is exactly what I would like to use it for. Both of my desktops already have SSD/HDD combos. Reply
vol7ron - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkExactly, and it's where power consumption matters even more.
I'd also like to see where the OWC drives fit in. Reply
ViviTheMage - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkThere are plenty of lower pwer SSD's that have similiar tasty iops, so you won't be disappointed...the falvouring is a little different, but you will still enjoy it. Reply
ckryan - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkI very much expect the next generation of Marvell drives to look similar in some respects to the V4.
I applaud OCZ for doing things differently, but they're probably just trying to beat the next wave of Marvell powered drives to market, not making up for SFs immediate deficiencies. Reply
ViviTheMage - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkDo you think Marvell can release a drive with as many delicious iops? Reply
Kristian Vättö - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkNot Marvell, because they only make controllers ;-)
Plextor M3 Pro is already providing up to 75K/69K IOPS (read/write). Marvell released a new controller a couple of weeks ago and at least according to the press release, random speeds should be substantially improved with a great firmware. How fast is still a question but I wouldn't be surprised to see figures similar to Indilinx 2.
And as a side note, Plextor M3 review should be up later today or tomorrow as well :-) Reply
ckryan - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkThe M3P is fantastic. It's like the V4 without the compromise. Plus, I'd take better low QD performance any day of the week over high QD performance. The M3P is a lot more balanced.
Plus, yeah, the 830 is awesome too, but it doesn't really cater to the super high 4Krw crowd. I feel like OCZ just needed to get this drive out before then next wave of similar drives hit, and will later tweak the FW to better accommodate desktop workloads.
But it does accomplish one thing -- whatever FW/FTL they strapped on that drive doesn't look like anything else at the moment. It's certainly easy to see in an ocean of charts.
I think OCZ just mainly wanted to reverse their years of SF marketing practice with the V4 -- Latency is now important. Compressible data is out. They just had to wait until they had a product that could match the paper specs of the 2281. Ironically, I'd take it over a V3 any day of the week, but the 2281 is still better with most workloads. Reply
etamin - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkPerhaps the V4 may turn out to be a more economical choice though because it is entirely developed in house. Reply
jwilliams4200 - Thursday, April 05, 2012 - linkLOL. Except for the rebadged Marvell controller and the flash memory, yeah, entirely in house. Reply
rw1986 - Friday, April 06, 2012 - linkrebadged MRVL controller?? can u elaborate Reply
jwilliams4200 - Friday, April 06, 2012 - linkDid you ever wonder why Indilinx took so long to come out with a 2nd gen controller after their first was so popular?
Well, they didn't. Not really. OCZ does not want you to know that they have a relationship with Marvell, and their new controller is basically a Marvell 88SS9187. It would be hard to justify the shareholder money OCZ spent on acquiring Indilinx if the truth were known.
If you have any doubts, look at the press release from Marvell press release bullet points and compare them to the features OCZ is touting in the Vertex 4. They are identical.
http://www.marvell.com/company/news/pressDetail.do... Reply
rw1986 - Friday, April 06, 2012 - linkThis seems very speculative. OCZ has admitted collaboration with Marvell (for example on their new Kilimanjaro platform for the Z-Drive R5 PCIe SSD).
here is the link to the OCZ Everest 2 announcement: http://www.ocztechnology.com/aboutocz/press/2012/4...
In the announcement, OCZ makes some specific claims surrounding Everest 2 -- for example:
"the Everest 2 SSD controller reduces latency to 0.043ms for read operations and 0.026ms for write operations, yielding an improvement of approximately 80 percent over the previous Everest SSD controller generation"
"The advanced, multi-level BCH ECC engine with progressive error correction adapts to the specific error characteristics of different NAND devices. The programmable ECC engine achieves an effective correction power of up to 128 bits per 1KB of data while significantly reducing the uncorrectable bit error rate (UBER)."
The Marvell sheet emphasizes some similar things (high performance, error correction technology) but these are more general claims than what OCZ has listed in their Everest 2 spec sheet.
Is the foundation of your assumption that Everest 2 is just the 88SS9187 that the spec sheets sound similar? That does not seem conclusive to put it generously Reply
jwilliams4200 - Saturday, April 07, 2012 - linkThere is no hard evidence that is publicly available since OCZ is keeping it quiet for obvious reasons.
The Octane uses a rebadged Marvell 88SS9174, and the Vertex 4 uses a rebadged Marvell 88SS9187. Reply
rw1986 - Saturday, April 07, 2012 - linkI'm just curious how you can make these claims so authoritatively when, as you say "there is no hard evidence that is publicly available" to support your position.
What you seem to be suggesting is that OCZ made a 32 million dollar acquisition in April of 2011 (Indilinx) and then decided to simply license and rebadge controllers from Marvell rather than build internally (which is completely contrary to what OCZ has told investors and the public). On a Thursday conference call OCZ's CEO was quite adamant that Everest 2 is completely their IP and will improve their profit margin strucutre as a result (since they don't have to pay a fee to Sandforce for each controller as before). If what you are saying is true then OCZ has misled their investors at best.
This is a pretty serious accusation you are making here and it would be nice if you had a little more to say in support of it than "trust me, i know." If you were really in a position to know then I doubt you would be posting on the comments section at AT.
I'd be interested to hear some experts weigh in on this exchange. How could we verify or disprove that the Everest 2 is really not Indilinx but instead a rebadged 9187? Surely some analysis can be done on the ASIC Reply
jwilliams4200 - Saturday, April 07, 2012 - linkIt isn't very important to me either way, since I have no financial interest. But OCZ has a history of dishonesty, and it bothers me to see them get away it.
If it is important to you, you could start by contacting the appropriate people at OCZ and asking whether the controllers in the Octane and the Vertex 4 have similar or identical circuits with Marvell controllers. Reply
jwilliams4200 - Wednesday, April 11, 2012 - linkhttp://www.anandtech.com/show/5741/ocz-confirms-oc... Reply
hackztor - Friday, April 13, 2012 - linkGood job on being correct. I think alot of people feel betrayed again by ocz. Last time i will purchase their product no matter what. Reply
pookguy88 - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkso wait, right now they'll (256gb, 512gb) ship with 1gb DRAM but later on 512mb? Is it just me or is that going to be a huge deal for customers once they realize that they basically got jacked 512mb of RAM vs early adopters? Reply
pattycake0147 - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkI inferred that the smaller drives will ship with 1GB but only 512MB will be used on the drive. Reply
Voo - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkConsidering that was explicitly stated in the article there's not much to infer here is it?
"Oh no I was jacked from 512mb that were deactivated anyhow - what a scandal!" Reply
antef - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkWhy is your standard recommendation still the Samsung SSD 830? Given the performance, prices, and most notably, the incredibly excellent reviews on sites like Newegg, the Crucial M4 would still be my recommendation to new shoppers. Reply
Kristian Vättö - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkSamsung 830 is "a lot" faster, see our Heavy and Light benches. In real world, you will probably not notice the difference unless you do something I/O intensive. Personally, I've been recommending both Crucial m4 and Samsung 830. Crucial is great if you want to save a few bucks but otherwise Samsung is better. I think Anand has been using the Samsung in his main system for months now and haven't had issues, so that may be a reason as well. After all, we speak based on our own experience. Reply
kristof007 - Thursday, April 05, 2012 - linkI've been looking around for articles and just looked at bench marks (ignore the M3 and Vertex 4 reviews) and it seemed like the Crucial m4 was hands down the best drive. I purchased it yesterday via Newegg for $299 (it was on sale). Sounds like I won't be disappointed.
I was wondering if you guys could maybe have like a top 3 list for SSDs (or heck .. for all categories) with quick pro's and con's for what is out at the moment and what is the best one performance wise.
By the way, I haven't been reading much AT lately, but I've seen a few of your articles and would like to thank you for your work! Reply
nathanddrews - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkThe 830 offers up nearly the best "real world" disk busy performance in both the light and heavy benchmarks and has proven to be extremely reliable and consistent without being very expensive. The M4 is great... but a bit outdated performance-wise (not as fast as the 830). Reply
antef - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkThanks for the replies. I guess I saw them as trading places a good bit in the benchmarks, but I do see that the 830 often comes out on top. I guess I figured the performance difference is practically nil for mainstream uses and the M4 seems more highly reviewed. But the 830 has been out for less time, so that may improve over time. Reply
nathanddrews - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkThat's just it - the differences in overall performance aren't likely to keep one awake at night. In the case of a person that has never used an SSD, just about any SSD available online today will completely shock and awe.
An SSD that is 20% faster than another SSD which are both 900% faster than a 5400RPM HDD... not a big deal. Reply
antef - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - link"Shock and awe" is the correct way to describe my feelings the first time I saw Windows boot in 3 seconds. :) Reply
beginner99 - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkPrice wise for average user the m4 is the best bang for the buck. Here its the cheapest sata-3 128 GB drive and 20$ cheaper than the Samsung. Also m4 uses less power, eg better for a laptop. Reply
ExarKun333 - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkLooks like a trade-off that gave-up read performance for write performance with poor power consumption. Based on the charts, the HyperX 240GB or the Intel 520 would be better all-around options. The OCZ name also doesn't inspire a lot of confidence when it comes to reliability or support. They will really need up their game for customer service this generation to build some confidence in them. Reply
alan1476 - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkIf you are not impressed by this drive the review did not do this drive justice. If someone reviews a drive especially an SSD you have to understand the inner workings and just how it applys itself to applications in the real world. This SSD is ground breaking. Reply
cknobman - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkI see no Sandforce 512gb drives shown in the performance charts.
Its pretty common knowledge that SSD performance goes up with capacity and showcasing the Vertex 4 512gb drive against either smaller SSD's or older controllers makes it look better than it likely is.
Did anyone notice the abysmal speeds for the 120gb model???
I also noticed pretty high power consumption.
I don't consider this review proper until you place a 2nd Gen 512gb SandForce drive in the charts to compare directly against the 512gb Vertex 4 drive. Reply
Kristian Vättö - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - link240GB Vertex 3 is actually faster than 480GB Vertex 3:
http://www.ocztechnology.com/res/manuals/OCZ_Verte... Reply
MarkLuvsCS - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - link256gb and 512gb should perform nearly identical because they have the same number of NAND packages - 16. the 512gb version just uses 32gb vs 16gb NAND in the 256gb version. The differences between the 256 and 512 gb drives are negligible. Reply
Iketh - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkthat concept of yours depends entirely on how each line of SSD is architected... it goes without saying that each manufacturer implements different architectures....
your comment is what is misleading Reply
Glock24 - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - link"...a single TRIM pass is able to restore performance to new"
I've seen statements similar to this on previous reviews, but how do you force a TRIM pass? Do you use a third party application? Is there a console command? Reply
Kristian Vättö - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkJust format the drive using Windows' Disk Management :-) Reply
Glock24 - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkWell, I will ask this another way:
Is there a way to force the TRIM command that wil nor destroy the data in the drive? Reply
Kristian Vättö - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkIf you've had TRIM enabled throughout the life of the drive, then there is no need to TRIM it as the empty space should already be TRIM'ed.
One way of forcing it would be to multiply a big file (e.g. an archive or movie file) until the drive runs out of space. Then delete the multiples. Reply
PartEleven - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkI was also curious about this, and hope you can clarify some more. So my understanding is that Windows 7 has TRIM enabled by default if you have an SSD right? So are you saying that if you have TRIM enable throughout the life of the drive, Windows should automagically TRIM the empty space regularly? Reply
adamantinepiggy - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkhttp://ssd.windows98.co.uk/downloads/ssdtool.exe
This tool will initiate a trim manually. Problem is that unless you can monitor the SSD, you won't know it has actually done anything. I know it works with Crucial Drives on Win7 as I can see the SSD's initiate a trim from the monitoring port of the SSD when I use this app. I can only "assume" it works on other SSD's too but since I can't monitor them, I can't know for sure. Reply
Glock24 - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkI'll try that tool.
For those using Linux, I've used a tool bundled with hdparm calles wiper.sh:
wiper.sh: Linux SATA SSD TRIM utility, version 3.4, by Mark Lord.
Linux tune-up (TRIM) utility for SATA SSDs
Usage: /usr/sbin/wiper.sh [--max-ranges <num>] [--verbose] [--commit] <mount_point|block_device>
Eg: /usr/sbin/wiper.sh /dev/sda1 Reply
elghosto - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linklinux
#fstrim Reply
Per Hansson - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - link"monitoring port of the SSD"
Please enlighten me, Google was no help...
Is it a hardware interface that allows you to see how the drive operates? Reply
adamantinepiggy - Thursday, April 05, 2012 - linkBasically, every SSD has some sort of real-time data port that allows engineers to monitor what is going on with the SSD, even when the drive hangs or has other issues. It is used mainly for development/testing. Consider it sorta like a way to read/access the dump file when Windows BSOD's, except in this case it's on the SSD. This monitoring port gets disabled on released drive firmware and the hardware attachment leads are unattached.. Reply
jonup - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkThanks for asking this! I always wanted to know that myself. I actually google it to no avail while I was reading the article. Reply
medys - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkHow long till we are overclocking our SSD processors :-/ Reply
FunBunny2 - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkUmm. How you gonna fit that water cooler inside the case? Reply
Iketh - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkhahaha... NEVER!! I've yet to break a Win7 installation from overclocking, but I broke XP many times... I shudder at the thought of overclocking an SSD :) Reply
Iketh - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkAlthough, I wonder how long until the processors in SSDs reach, say, today's single-core Atom... OR better yet, how long before the SSD controller is built into the CPU much like the memory controller, where we install more storage the same way we install ram... and then later again the nand controller and RAM controller merge, and a computer is nothing more than a SoC with some nand sitting next to it... Reply
iwod - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkWe finally have controller that are able to bump out MB faster then Sandforce without using some silly compression engine. Marvell also announced next Gen SSD controller as well.
Again we have reached the limit of SATA 6Gbps, we will need to start thinking about SATA Express, Lower power consumption, reliability. etc... Reply
akbo - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkThough I think the high consumption might be because of the controller, the chip is huge! With thermy sticky!
Wonder when a die shrink of this is possible. Reply
Freddy G. - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkI want an SSD now for my gaming system, as boot and games drive, what u guys think should be better? Crucial m4 or Corsair Force GT? BTW Im going to start with a 120gb version in the meantime. Reply
kyuu - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkWhichever is cheaper. Performance-wise, you won't notice a difference. I promise. Reply
tynopik - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkdon't think you said what you meant Reply
Anand Lal Shimpi - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkI think you're quite right :) Fixed.
Take care,
Anand Reply
ViviTheMage - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkI have two M4's, I find the iops to be as delicious as milk shakes. Reply
gloinsir - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkWhat's up with the huge variance in performance between the Samsung 830 512MB and 256MB drives? On the light workload test - http://www.anandtech.com/show/5719/ocz-vertex-4-re... - The 256MB version is 25-50% faster on all tests. That's an enormous difference.
Is there a firmware difference between the two drives?
Thanks for a great review. I hope the firmware updates and reliability work out. Competition is good! Reply
Anand Lal Shimpi - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkThere is indeed a firmware difference between the drives - unfortunately Samsung's latest firmware won't install on the 512GB drive for whatever reason, so it's left with lower performance.
Take care,
Anand Reply
ckryan - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkAre you sure that's a FW difference? I didn't really notice much of a difference overall between my 256GB and 512GB 830s, but there are differences.
My 512 on 01FW pulls down substantially higher QD1 4K RWs than the 256 on 01 or 03FW, but there are other differences. I think there are slightly different characteristics between the 32gbit and 64gbit dies. Reply
ViviTheMage - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkSeriously, these are probably the most nutritious, and scrumdidaliumpcious iop looking SSD's I have seen. Reply
edlee321 - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkIm another one of those crucial m4 fans, you cannot get better bang for the buck than these drives, especially for power consumption and reliability.
The difference between 4k read from one ssd to another is not important, reliability and idle power consumption is whats important.
If anand can run a one month stress test using random uncompressable data on all the current drives in his possession that would be great. I want to see what drive lasts out the longest. Reply
RussianSensation - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkIt seems after extensive use and degradation, the Corsair Performance Pro is one of the best, even besting the Crucial M4:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/storage/display/m... Reply
meloz - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkWhat's the deal with using such an enormous SoC built on 65nm process?
I can understand OCZ / Indilinx not willing to shell premium for cutting edge 28nm process, but they could have at least used 45nm process.
With a 45nm process the SoC would be a lot smaller, thermal management would be easier (and cheaper), and power consumption would be lower (firmware update or not).
The cost of more modern process is easily balanced by the fact that they would get a lot more chips of a 300nm wafer with 45nm rather than 65nm.
Vertex 4 is a good improvement from OCZ, but they need to get serious about their execution and 'little details' if they still want to exist in another 5 years. Marvell, SandForce and Intel are not standing still and as competition increases the price of such poor decisions will weigh heavily against OCZ. Reply
Ryan Smith - Thursday, April 05, 2012 - linkWhile we obviously can't speak for OCZ, when it comes to processes do keep in mind that costs escalate with the process. Older processes are not only cheaper because they have effectively reached their maximum yields, but the cost of their development has always been paid off, allowing the fabs to sell wafer runs at a lower cost and still book a profit.
For a sufficiently simple device, the additional number of dice per wafer may not offset the higher per-wafer costs, lower yield, and demand-driven pricing. 4x nm processes are still booked solid, and will be for some time. Reply
NCM - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkFirmware "promises" aren't worth the guarantee they're not written on.
We buy today's product, not the product there might be in some indefinite future. Reply
rw1986 - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkseems intel NAND would cost more and OCZ buys most of their NAND from Micron I believe Reply
Kristian Vättö - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkWithout knowing the prices, it's hard to say anything. Intel and Micron NAND come from the same fab so the silicon quality is the same. Intel does rate their NAND higher (5000 vs 3000 P/E cycles) and both companies have their own validation processes, so it's possible that Intel NAND is slightly higher quality.
It's possible that OCZ sources NAND from several fabs for the Vertex 4. E.g. Vertex 3 used NAND from Intel, Micron, Spectec and Hynix. Micron NAND is available in higher quantity as they own more plants, so that's why it's more common. Price wise I guess they are all about the same, though. Reply
bji - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkAny time a drive has a significant amount of RAM in it, I get a bit worried about the possibility of data loss on power outage. If the drive has the name OCZ attached, this worry becomes a huge concern. I would not be at all surprised if OCZ increased performance in part by reducing durability in the face of power outage.
If the RAM is used as a write buffer, then on power outage the data is lost. This is not a problem if the drive correctly reports this state to the operating system - i.e., not telling the operating system that the data is sync'd to permanent storage until it's been written out of RAM cache into the flash cells. But if the drive cheats by telling the operating system that the blocks have been written when they have been stored in its RAM rather than when the blocks have actually made it to the flash cells, then data can be lost despite the guarantee that the drive has given that it can't.
Cheating in this way could make write performance look better, and given that the drive looks particularly good for write performance and has a lot of RAM on board, I am very, very suspicious.
What about testing this drive's durability in the face of power loss? Reply
geddarkstorm - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkThat's a good question.
However, from the article it sounds like the RAM is mostly being used to prefetch reads, rather than buffer writes. Reply
bji - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkThat's Anandtech's conjecture. Even if OCZ told them it was so, it's not proven, as OCZ could be lying to cover the deficiency. Reply
FunBunny2 - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkExactly!! An "Enterprise SSD" with no superCap?? That needs some 'splainin. Reply
hechacker1 - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkI'm not really sure if they are buffering that much data. I'm betting a lot of it is to cache the state of the available flash (tables and bitmaps), and to provide lots of room so you can use memory intensive algorithms to allocate, sort, and combine data before it gets place on the flash.
Even with some cache, just because the SSD is so fast, it's going to empty it in 1 second. Reply
vegemeister - Monday, May 07, 2012 - linkAs long as it's not too much RAM to write out before the energy in the caps runs out, it's not really a problem. Reply
7Enigma - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkBut you can show all these pretty specs and graphs but until you fix something like this catastrophe I will avoid your SSD's like the plague:
Oh and what controller is in this beauty......Indilinx Everest!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?SID=PSa... Reply
Comdrpopnfresh - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkIt's nice to see the AES-256 encryption on it. That'll come in handy when the drive dies and has to be sent back to OCZ.
I have 2 vertex2's and a vertex3, all of which died, and I have yet to eat or rma- OCZ provides no way to fulfill the warranty without compromising the security of user data. Used to be a big fan of OCZ, and loved their ssds... until this situation arose THREE TIMES. Reply
vegemeister - Monday, May 07, 2012 - linkSure they do -- encrypt it yourself in software. Anyway, why would you trust OCZ not to be able to decrypt data encrypted by closed-source firmware designed by OCZ? Reply
Hurk - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkwhere is the data for the 128gb version? it will be significantly different from the 256/512, and since im really loving SSD caching on new system builds, the smaller drive is more important to see the numbers for than the 256/512 for me. Reply
Kristian Vättö - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkManufacturers often send bigger capacities for reviews (they are the highest performing ones, after all). I'm sure there will be a 128GB review once we get one, which is hopefully sooner than later :-) Reply
Reikon - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkNice referral link there. Reply
JarredWalton - Thursday, April 05, 2012 - linkNo worries -- they've been marked as spam and are gone now. Let this serve as a warning to others: if you try to put in a referral link in a comment and we mark you as spam, all your comments go bye bye! Reply
iceman98343 - Thursday, April 05, 2012 - linksorry about that. c an you delete my last entry below. didn't see any TOS against referral links. Reply
Coup27 - Friday, April 06, 2012 - linkFor the uneducated, what is a referral link? Reply
ginman - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkI have been reading articles here for some number of years now and i like reading these. But i notice it's normally the same players, Intel, OCZ, Samsung, Crucial ect... I was wondering if there has been any benches run on the Mushkin SSD's, pricewise; they seem to be setting a new trend. Reply
InsaneScientist - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkWhat's up with the connector on the opposite end of the board from the SATA connector? It looks like the same pinout as SATA, but smaller.
Did I miss an interface specification?
And, more importantly: what's it for? 2 interfaces on one drive? Reply
pc_void - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkMore like for sale ON amazon.
Amazon itself isn't selling it atm.
And the prices are stupid. Reply
sfroom - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkI just reread the Samsung 830 review based on your comment in the last paragraph, but could barely find any mention of Mac use in the review. Why is the Samsung 830 your SSD of choice for Mac users?
Additionally, I'd LOVE to see an article comparing the current batch of SSD's on the mac platform. Thanks! Reply
ectoplasmosis - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkI second this. Reply
ckryan - Wednesday, April 04, 2012 - linkThe 830 pretty much works trouble free in OSX, with or without TRIM. It's garbage collection on post-CXM01B1Q FW is good, and performance got a bump with it too. Reply
Samplex - Thursday, April 05, 2012 - linkWhy is this: "If you're buying an SSD today, our standarding recommendation (particularly for Mac users) is Samsung's SSD 830."
Why is the Samsung better for mac users? Reply
7Enigma - Thursday, April 05, 2012 - linkSee here:
But as ckryan said above it comes down to garbage collection and TRIM support (or lackthereof). Reply
iceman98343 - Thursday, April 05, 2012 - linkYou can purchase the drive at amazon now - http://goo.gl/p8BSK Reply
iceman98343 - Thursday, April 05, 2012 - linkalso listed at newegg for $179.99 Reply
iceman98343 - Thursday, April 05, 2012 - linkplease delete the above comment. Reply
DukeN - Thursday, April 05, 2012 - linkUntil this has been out a year, that's all this amounts to.
I'd rather pay for Intel/Crucial reliability than be OCZ's unpaid beta tester. Reply
ceast3 - Monday, April 09, 2012 - linkThe previous poster was correct, OCZ fixed the BSOD problem, not intel. Sandforce then released their fix to the other Manufacturers. Sandforce was the problem.... fact. So far all feedback is great with the Vertex 4, if that continues until Ivy Bridge and nothing better comes out, I'll be getting one! Vertex 3 and all other SF-2000 based SSD's showed problems right away, so I'm not worried. Reply
alfatekpt - Monday, April 09, 2012 - linkWhy is your recommendation the Samsung's SSD 830 instead of OCZ vertex 3?
Reliability? Reply
Snigel - Sunday, April 22, 2012 - linkIt's interesting to see the max values of power consumption, but it would also be interesting to factor in the speed of the drives.
Usually a desktop user have a fixed amount of data that the disk needs to transfer, so continous load wattage is not that interesting compared to how much energy that is required to get the job done.
wattage * transfer time
For continous loads it would be more interesting to see something like
transfer speed / wattage
How much performance do I get compared to the energy I put in?
I could do these calculations manually of course, but I don't know how the write tests in the power consumption part are performed, so I cannot get the speed data from other charts. Reply
vegemeister - Monday, May 07, 2012 - linkAn SSD will be idle nearly all the time in nearly all desktop and laptop use cases. When the idle power consumption is > 1W, it doesn't much matter what the load power consumption is. Reply
Winning29 - Monday, April 30, 2012 - linkHey guys. Check out my OCZ Vertex 4 speed test on YouTube. It shows my home PC's boot up time, then I load a VDI environment running on Citrix XenApp and VMware Workstation.
I'd welcome any comments, feedback or questions. Reply
Bluemars_ - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkNew firmware 1.4's out, does it fix the low queue depth sequential read performance? Reply
twindragon6 - Friday, June 29, 2012 - linkFrom OCZ's website.
"CURRENT FIRMWARE RELEASE is v126.96.36.199"
I'm curious to see how this drive performs now with the newer firmware. Reply
gigahertz20 - Friday, June 29, 2012 - linkYes, I would like to see if the newer firmware has fixed this as well as OCZ promised. I wish they would create an update for this review. Reply
yj100 - Monday, July 09, 2012 - linkI got a Vertex 4 512gb a week ago for my MacBook Pro and after 2 days it crashed. Only a gray screen with a spinning wheel would come up when trying to boot.
Apparently this is common as OCZ have a forum thread dedicated to this. Apparently they have a firmware fix but it didn't help me.
I have a 256gb Vertex 4 for about a couple of months with no problems. For 512gb I'm going to stay away from the Vertex 4. Reply
Zarathustra[h] - Wednesday, July 25, 2012 - linkAs some other sites have tested, it seems like the Vertex 4 is a completely different drive with the newer 1.4 firmware, and 1.5 added even more performance.
Has Anandtech considered revisiting this drive with a later firmware? I have much more faith in Anandtechs reviews on SSD's than others and would love to see this drive tested with the latest firmware. Reply
Zoeff - Sunday, July 29, 2012 - linkI second this.
The heavy/light storage bench is unique to Anandtech and feels much more representative of actual usage. Reply
Salv0 - Wednesday, August 01, 2012 - link+1
Retest with the latest fw will be great! Reply
teefatt - Monday, September 03, 2012 - linkTo potential OCZ SSD buyers,
I posted the above matters to OCZ forum and got no solution from them after many email in and out in a week time. They want me to write an email to HP for help. They even deleted my reply and make the post like I did not reply their request or reply their mail. Furthermore, they blocked my post. They wanted me to send them a personal email instead of on the public forum.
They moved my post to ForumOCZ Support ForumCompliments, Complaints, & SuggestionsVertex 4 512GB BSOD in RAID 0 setup.
That's why I totally agree with the post here on the first page:
"It's still a drive from OCZ, a company that has repeatedly and blatantly used its customer base as unpaid beta testers, and lambasted them when they dared to complain about it. No thank you. The fastest drive in the world is of no use to me if it's causing my computer to BSOD constantly. I'll be spending my money and that of my many clients on drives with proven track records for reliability and excellent customer service, both sadly lacking in OCZ products."
I will walk away from this OCZ unreliable SSD. Luckily I am able to return the drives and asked for refund instead of following their steps to do the beta tester in a week time.
Think twice before you buy it.
Thanks you. Reply
vwrafi - Saturday, September 29, 2012 - linkHi. When the drive goes into the GC mode ( standard mode ), does it mean that the drive will start to read and write its internal data ? If so, does it mean that the write lifetime of the cells will reduce ( write lifetime of the disk will be reduced every time it reorganize itself ) ? And if so, can we switch off this or install firmware that do not shorten the write lifetime of the disk ? Reply


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Miller propels Gators to WNIT win
Published: Monday, March 25, 2013 at 6:01 a.m.
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Five Gators scored in double-figures and Florida defeated Winthrop, 85-53, in the WNIT second round at Winthrop Coliseum on Monday.
Florida (20-14) outscored Winthrop (21-12) 18-5 in the last 6:20 of the first half to take a 44-28 lead into the locker room. The Gators then opened the second half on a 10-4 run to take a 54-32 lead and never looked back en route to the dominate 32-point victory.
"This was probably one of our most complete wins of the season when you look at scoring, rebounding, tempo, defense and the distribution of minutes and points," UF head coach Amanda Butler said. "This was a fantastic team win against a very good team."
Florida advances to the WNIT round of 16 and plays at Charlotte (26-5) on Wednesday at 7 p.m. The 49ers defeated Davidson, 72-60, in their second round game on Sunday.
Freshman January Miller scored a game-high 16 points, while freshman Christin Mercer and redshirt-sophomore Kayla Lewis both tallied 15 points.
Freshman Sydney Moss posted her fourth double-double of the year with 13 points and a game and career-high tying 11 rebounds along with four assists and two steals.
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Apple TV 2013 (A1469) Short Review: Analysis of a New A5by Anand Lal Shimpi on 3/15/2013 12:45 AM EST
52 Comments
Back to Article
thesavvymage - Friday, March 15, 2013 - linkYou'd break even on the $99 cost of a new Apple TV in about 385 years. Maybe by then we'll actually have a true replacement to cable TV.
Not often that I laugh during an article, but this got me haha Reply
fnord123 - Friday, March 15, 2013 - linkI think your math is wrong - the new AppleTV consumes about 0.7W less no matter what it is doing.
0.7W * 24 hr/day * 365 days/year * 1KWhr/1000W = About 6KWHr per year. At around $0.12 per KWHr, a $99 AppleTV pays for itself in $99 / (6 * 0.12) = About 137 years, not 385 years. Reply
commondandy - Friday, March 15, 2013 - link8 hours a day, not 24. Reply
Seemone - Friday, March 15, 2013 - linkafter all to watch TV 24 hours a day we'd have to factor in caffeine costs. Reply
Torrijos - Friday, March 15, 2013 - linkWhat he meant is that even idle the AppleTV consumes 0.7w less, so even when you're not watching anything it saves you a little bit of money (power). So I agree with him, since in every state you save 0.7w it pays itself in 137 years. Reply
Helmore - Friday, March 15, 2013 - linkDoesn't the Apple TV have a standby mode? If so, would both their standby modes be roughly the same power consumption? Reply
Gigaplex - Friday, March 15, 2013 - linkWhy is it not simply turned off? Does the Apple TV not have a low power "off/sleep" mode? Reply
Torrijos - Friday, March 15, 2013 - linkIsn't the "Idle" state the low power sleep state? Reply
igloo66 - Monday, October 31, 2016 - linkOk, I am a NetFlix junkie who loves Apple products. We were paying over $70.00 mo. for basic cable + $8.64 mo. for NetFlix ($7.99 + Hamilton County, TN tax), altogether totaling over $80.00 per month easily. We finally dropped cable, bought the free TV antenna and now watch everything we enjoyed on TV for $8.64 per month...for just the price of NetFlix. My Apple TV paid for itself in just over one month. I don't know how much power it uses but Netflix does pause to ask its viewers if they are still watching. If it doesn't receive a response within (what it believes to be a reasonable amount of time), both my TV and my Apple TV will turn off, although you can put the Apple TV to sleep in the "Settings". Sounds like a great savings of power saver to me since NetFlix is running on my Apple TV about 25% of the day between all of us. Just saying since I am not a techie (not even close) but I am loving my Apple TV so much more after ditching cable altogether!! Don't just "Ditch the Dish", by a free TV remote, a subscription to NetFlix and an Apple TV and ditch it all!
Disclaimer: We don't actually need the Apple TV because we can watch NetFlix on my Mac, my iPhone or our iPad's, but it's really great to watch it in the living room, the den and/or the bedroom instead. That way it feels just like when we had expanded cable [which costs even more] with Tivo/On Demand... (pausing, rewinding, fast-forwarding) just without the bill. Reply
zeagus - Friday, March 15, 2013 - link0.7W is too high for ya? :) Reply
juliankauai - Friday, March 15, 2013 - linkhere on Kauai and island of Hawaii electricity is $0.40 per KWHr. = 41.25 years. Electricity costs different amounts in different places. Reply
jmmx - Monday, March 18, 2013 - linkOK - if you wanted to run the device at 0.85 W for 10 hours - what size batterie would you need? (i.e in mAh) Reply
frogger4 - Friday, March 15, 2013 - linkCan you say iWatch SOC? Reply
fteoath64 - Friday, March 15, 2013 - linkI would say Wifi NAS (battery powered). This would compliment the iPads, iPhones, iTouches and MacBooks. Just slot in your favorite 2.5inch HDD and good-to-go!. One can and will do TimeMachine native and potentially iCloud caching!. How is that for an idea ?.
Note: A portable NAS would see more than AppleTVs in volumes yearly since it would appeal to more people who do not watch TV and lives on the Internet and using the Cloud. At least a billion on revenue easy if they had a $199 model, a $249 model and $299 model. Reply
Gigaplex - Friday, March 15, 2013 - linkSlot in your favourite drive? No... this is Apple. They'd provide the drive for you and charge extra. Reply
weiran - Friday, March 15, 2013 - linkBe realistic, Apple would never make this. Reply
erple2 - Saturday, March 16, 2013 - linkIt sounds to me like you've just described the Apple Time Machine. They already have that product (sans battery backup). Also, that wouldn't be all that long lasting on a battery. Reply
tipoo - Friday, March 15, 2013 - linkNah. Even this little power draw is way too much for a watch, The Pebble watch uses a Cortex-M3 which has a max power draw of 0.00408 W. At 0.7 watts (ok, shave some for the system since it would be far less in a watch) is much much more. The Pebble lasts a week with an e-ink display. Reply
Tegeril - Saturday, March 16, 2013 - linkThe Pebble is not e-ink, it's an e-paper LCD, which is a significant difference. Reply
tipoo - Monday, March 18, 2013 - linkEither way, the chip it uses draws way less power. Reply
casteve - Friday, March 15, 2013 - link"The only question that remains is whether or not we'll see this unique A5 revision appear in any other devices. There's not a whole lot of room for a single-core Cortex A9 in Apple's existing product lineup, so I'm encouraged to believe that this part is exclusively for the Apple TV."
Unless they need a media controller embedded in a TV. Reply
Aenean144 - Friday, March 15, 2013 - linkWhy would they bother for a television? How many $1000+ televisions Apple can sell per year? 1m, 2m, 4m? Doesn't sound worth it too.
I think the best candidate would be the "cheap" iPhone at $300-$400 unsubsidized or an iPod touch at $200. It'll be a step above the A4 SoC in the iPhone 4 (~$450 unsubsidized today) and the iPod touch 4th gen (8/16 GB models at $200/$250). Possibly, a lower tier iPad mini at $250. This single core A5 will be have about 1.5x the CPU performance and 5x-7x the GPU performance. Reply
Colin1497 - Monday, March 18, 2013 - linkThere has been a lot of scuttlebutt about a low cost iPhone primarily for markets outside the US/Europe. I wouldn't be surprised to see this part show up there. Currently the iPhone 4 brings up the tail end of the lineup, but this is something that was designed originally as a premium product, but that is now long in the tooth. I suspect iPhone 4 compatibility will be kept around for a few more generations of iOS, and this is more powerful than the A4 in the in iPhone 4, so this silicon, and a die shrink on it, could go into a lower cost product at the low end. Basically picture it in an iPhone 4 spin with the goal of driving out cost, while possibly having LTE and a few other modern features spun in. Reply
rollacorolla - Friday, March 15, 2013 - linkWith such low power draw, it's a shame it still needs a bulky power cord and transformer. It would be neat if it could be bus powered via HDMI or ethernet. Or stick a photovoltaic cell on top of it. Reply
smartthanyou - Friday, March 15, 2013 - link"The Apple TV is an incredibly relevant device today. It's Apple's attempt to augment the Netflixes and Hulu Pluses of the world with an on-demand cable TV alternative."
Is that a typo? Did you mean "irrelevant?" The Apple TV's purpose is to support purchasers of iTunes content to help keep iTunes users locked into the Apple ecosystem. Sure, there are a few other services on the device but none of them directly compete with the iTunes store. The one thing that would directly compete, Amazon Video on Demand, is missing.
Unless you want to "sell your soul" to Apple, it is a useless device. Reply
Scannall - Friday, March 15, 2013 - linkPretty obvious you don't actually know anything at all about the device. Just foaming at the keyboard over a mention of Apple. Reply
Retrophe - Friday, March 15, 2013 - linkHe is right in that it is limited to iTunes. Using a ceton infin4 and a pc you can record cable and tv, watch via amazonprime or google's play's rival due soon, and you can stream via icefilms. Apple tv does none of that. Reply
AdamChew - Saturday, March 16, 2013 - linkYou have a choice so stick to it.
One man's meat is another man's poison. Reply
MichalT - Wednesday, July 24, 2013 - linkIf you already use an iPad, it wirelessly connects the iPad to the television, so you get everything on your iPad to your tv. That's a lot of content and its kind of cool to use a tablet as a remote control. If you want a pirate box, this likely isn't the choice, but otherwise if you already have an iPad it seems pretty cool to me. Reply
steven75 - Saturday, March 16, 2013 - linkIt's worth $99 for AirPlay alone, as long as you have an iOS device, obviously.
AirPlay is incredibly useful. Reply
ExarKun333 - Sunday, March 17, 2013 - linkYou are obviously mistaken. There are many devices people already have that already support Airplay without needing to waste money on this. I can stream directly from computer to receiver using airplay, or from a phone/iPad. AppleTV is JUNK, period. It is irrelevant and a piece of crap. They could simply replace it entirely with a cable that could connect from your iPhone or iPad to your TV, or just manage all that content wirelessly directly to your TV. This an extra device that provides nothing, and it is reflected by the poor sales and consumer reception. Reply
jmmx - Monday, March 18, 2013 - linkIt is a device that does what it advertises to do - and does it well. In what way is it "crap"?
5Million units sold in one year - maybe not a stampede, but not bad. Reply
virgahyatt - Sunday, March 24, 2013 - linkYou are right you can stream Audio through airplay to those devices. However, the apple TV doesn't stop at audio. You can stream video as well. The device is actually capable of a lot more than what apple uses it for (surprise surprise). Take a look at XBMC which has a version for the apple TV. Reply
jmmx - Sunday, March 17, 2013 - link"Sell your soul to Apple" how quaint. Some prefer this over selling your privacy to Google. Reply
virgahyatt - Sunday, March 24, 2013 - linkActually, Netflix and Hulu could both be considered direct competitors and yet they are available. Reply
tipoo - Friday, March 15, 2013 - linkThere are still bound to be A5 chips with one defunct core but otherwise working, I cant imagine they would want to waste all of those. I wonder if they will continue to produce the Apple TV with some one+one disabled core in them, with the bulk being the new truly single core one, since lowered rates of failure are probably the reason they switched? Reply
tipoo - Friday, March 15, 2013 - linkThe article says the device would be cheaper to make, but wouldn't defunct SoCs from the iPads and iPhones be the even cheaper option? Unless the rate of failure on those had gotten so low they were artificially disabling one core on the Apple TV and using chips that would be fine in iPads, but then why not leave the cores alone? Hmm. Reply
solipsism - Saturday, March 16, 2013 - linkYou'd have to consider how many Apple TVs are being sold as well as how many do they expect to sell in the future (perhaps finally opening up to an App Store and SDK). Then add in the fault rate of chips that still have a viable GPU and at least one CPU core, and compare take into account how many fully-functioning A5 chips will be needed to supplement the difference.
Then there is always the possibility that there is enough faulty A5s that would work but Apple is using the Apple TV as a testing bed — like they did with the iPad 2 Rev. 2 for testing the 32nm chips — to test low power chips for some other project, like wearable computers. Reply
tipoo - Saturday, March 16, 2013 - linkOn the last point, if you're thinking of the iWatch, even this little power draw is way too much for a watch, The Pebble watch uses a Cortex-M3 which has a max power draw of 0.00408 W. At 0.7 watts (ok, shave some for the system since it would be far less in a watch) is much much more. The Pebble lasts a week, and only that with an e-ink display. Reply
Tegeril - Saturday, March 16, 2013 - linke-paper* Reply
SBoss2389 - Saturday, March 16, 2013 - linkThanks for the review !
But I'm sad you did not check the audio performance of this new AppleTV.
The main weakness of AppleTV has always been the unability to output audio at the correct sampling frequency from any source recorded in 44.1KHz (CD Audio)
When I bought an AppleTV 3rd gen a few month ago, I realized that all my iTunes library was forced to 48KHz audio, altough 98% of the content is native 44.1KHz audio.
This is a shame since Apple's Airport Express does the job right and lets audio sampling untouched. I switched back to Airport Express for music listening and got rid of this infamous AppleTV. And since modifying sampling frequency has severe drawbacks on audio quality, AppleTV cannot be used for true hifi audio experience, unless Apple manage to make it work like Airport Express in a next release or firmware update.
I'd be glad to know the reason why Apple chose to adjust sampling frequency on all inputs. To your opinion, is this only software related or some hardware incompatibility ?
Stephane. Reply
RobinBee - Sunday, March 17, 2013 - linkAnand forgets to test for audio quality. Jitter destroys sound quality. If a device runs hotter or cooler than before it will change audio quality because of a change in jitter distortion. Reason: Jitter depends on temperaure. Also: Audio quality depends on level of electrical noise. The new version of Apple TV probably does not sound the same as previous models. Anand's error (not testing for audio quality) is a major general problem in the industry. Hopefully some body at Apple will do something. Reply
GotThumbs - Monday, March 18, 2013 - linkI must say that I'm pretty disappointed in this article. Why is this simply a comparison of Apples old vs new specs? How about some REAL comparisons to the dozens of other streaming consoles out there? I've got a $35.00 Raspberry PI with XMBC streaming content from my home server. It plays AVI, MKV, etc with relative ease IMO.
I'd like to see how Apples most recent revision in this arena stacks up to all the others. Reply
V900 - Sunday, March 24, 2013 - linkNobody cares about your Raspberry Pi mediabox, sorry dude...
And as for comparisons with other media consoles, there has already been lots of those. And the AppleTV usually comes out on top... Reply
HUBEMX - Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - linkCall me when this thing gets an USB port, web browser, apps, gigabit ethernet, sd card port and XBMC without jailbreak. Reply
asgehrj - Monday, March 25, 2013 - linkAbout the Intel yield thing: Isn't it better to sell a faulty $300 part for $100 than to throw it out? As far a I know Intel doesn't sell any three core chips... Reply
Cepak - Sunday, April 14, 2013 - linkWhat I'd like to see is the full capability of an iPad2 wifi version in the AppleTV. I'd be willing to spend $350+ on such a device since it would allow me to drop DirecTV all together. Reply
TinCity - Tuesday, July 02, 2013 - linkApple TV is an awesome alternative to cable. Thanks to the Amazon reviews regarding this gadget, I made a great choice. See more reviews and discounts: http://amzn.to/1cMWwoc. Very happy! Reply
newandroidfan - Saturday, September 21, 2013 - linkhey man tired of reading long ass reviews that interest nobody? Go here to check out the Apple TV 3rd Gen review
http://goo.gl/ji8b9h Reply
cgbassett - Wednesday, June 11, 2014 - linkPlease help,
I have two 3rd gen apple tvs (A1427s). These are free replacements from Apple, because of an intermittent connection to my WLAN. We took the old units in, no receipt necessary, they replaced in about 12 seconds and we hoped everything would be fine. but the new units are behaving the same as the old. They suddenly disconnect from the network, and then magically re-connect. It's and inconsistent problem too. you can be streaming from your mac, or netflix for an hour no issues, then suddenly, nothing.
The software is up to date on both Apple Tvs, and the firmware is up to date on the ISP's router. The WLAN settings on the router are basic, both are on 802.11N.
my next step is to add the Apple Tvs to the Static DHCP list on the router.
What are your thoughts?
Are my settings out of wack? Reply
SethJames - Wednesday, July 30, 2014 - linkGreat article. For those who live outside US like me, you can access Netflix, Hulu and similar media stations on your Apple TV by using UnoTelly or similar tools. Reply
malexnd - Wednesday, July 01, 2015 - linkWhat is the in power, for this 110 vAC or also 220 vAC so can be used in Europe? Reply


text: Knit these accessory bow slippers, with cosy lining, available as a free pattern to download. Designed by Jem Weston originally featured in Cute Little Knits using Felted Tweed DK and Creative Focus Worsted (wool and alpaca), a beautiful blend of merino wool, alpaca and viscose for the uppers and bows and Fur (wool), a lightweight textured yarn for the lining. This pattern is suitable for the intermediate knitter.