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Lian Li PC-A55 Case Review: Unfortunate Name Befits the Designby Dustin Sklavos on 6/16/2012 12:30 PM EST
- Posted in
- Cases/Cooling/PSUs
- mid-tower
- Lian Li
64 Comments
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KingKongDonkeyBong - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkI'm a Mac junkie now, but rewind 4 years back and I used to build my own tower PCs like no tomorrow. I loved to pick out the best of the best components and put them together only to sell what I had done and start over again. To me, Lian Li has always stood for excellent looking aluminum cases, but they were bloody expensive then and are still today. I dreamed of a Lian Li case bak then, but I never got to build a PC with one of those beauties. :( It's great to see them still making top-notch stuff, though. Some of the better companies faded into oblivion, like SuperFlower. CoolerMaster used to make some good stuff back then, but no longer. :/ I'd put my money on Lian Li if I still had the passion to build tower PCs. Reply
Dustin Sklavos - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - link...did you actually read the review? Reply
JarredWalton - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkI'd guess not. He looked at the picture and said, "That's a nice looking case!" Too bad it doesn't have the performance to back it up, unless maybe you just want to run a Core i3 CPU with now discrete GPU? Buying a $110 case for such a PC seems a bit much, though, and it still performs like A55. Reply
Brutalizer - Monday, June 18, 2012 - linkThere is a smaller ATX case, the Lian Li PC-V700. It is 21 x 40 x 50 cm. And it holds six 3.5" disks.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/lian-li-mid-case-... Reply
yyrkoon - Tuesday, June 19, 2012 - linkYeah. I have a PC-G50. It is smaller than this ( 14.5" tall or so ), and has 3 3.5" drive slots. With the Add-on 4in3 bay adapter, I've had 7 HDD in it at one time. Plus it added a 120mm intake fan into the mix.
It is not the perfect case for a couple of reasons. but I am very happy with it. However, it is by far in my mind a better design compared to this.
Move the PSU horizontal, sideways, and reverse ( with perhaps an adapter cable going out to the back ). After removing the drive bay from the bottom of course.. Then add ventilation for the PSU intake, front, or side ( both ? ). Just thinking out loud here . . . Still lots of things could be done to improve this design. Obviously. Reply
yyrkoon - Tuesday, June 19, 2012 - linkMy guess is that this person did not read / understand the article title. Never mind the article its self.
One thing you do have to keep in mind however. Individuals have a mind of their own. Just because you or one of your cohorts gives equipment a bad review. Does not mean that someone else has to agree.
And there is a lot to disagree with sometimes, from the articles / reviews presented here. Everyone's priorities are different. Reply
wonderpookie - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkHehe, yea, I was just about to ask the exact same thing! Thank you for the in-depth and informative review, appreciated! Reply
Flunk - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkLian Li makes some great cases, this may not be one of them but there are a lot of other models so if you like the look of this there probably is a case for you in there somewhere. I have a PC-9F that is quite similar but a bit bigger than this that's just great. Reply
p05esto - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkIf you use Macs then what in the world are you doing on this site poser? This site is for computer enthusiasts and those into the latest and greatest, open standards and system, fastest machines around that can be upgraded and overclocked. Apple products don't fit under any of those headings. Maybe if we created an "overpriced preschool computing" Apple would fit nicely. No one wants Apple crap around here buddy. Reply
tim851 - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkWho made you boss, kid?
It sure was that guy Anand, who probably owns every Mac ever made. Reply
Stuka87 - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkYou just proved that you are not a regular here. Every new Mac/iPhone/iPad gets heavily reviewed here.
This site is for "Computer Enthusiast" like you said. That means ALL COMPUTERS. Not just non-Macs. I also find it funny that you says its for Open Standards, which most things reviewed here run Windows.
I think you should just run along now. Reply
jmhart - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkWait, you're calling HIM a poser? Reply
AVP - Sunday, June 17, 2012 - linkWhere do losers like this get this mentality? Reply
Voo - Sunday, June 17, 2012 - linkAh one of the new kids on the block that want to boast, but sadly have no idea what they're talking about.
Yep there really aren't any Mac users on AT, apart from several staff members. Reply
zanon - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkThank you for the thorough review Dustin. I know you dislike having to rag on and thumbs down something that people put effort into, but as potential customers we appreciate it, and Lian Li shouldn't be excused too much. While I very much appreciate companies that are willing to really experiment and push the envelope, they aren't running a charity, they're charging real money and have a duty to be professional. Basic thermal testing isn't rocket science, it's the sort of thing that any company should be doing as a continuous part of R&D, precisely to catch these issues. It's a core part of the engineering they should be doing. If you could get those numbers, they should have been able to as well long before ramping manufacturing. Someone should have said "hey wait a second, this isn't going to be that compelling, I guess we have to go back to the drawing board here."
I worry that a lot of companies don't use measurement-based reality checks as much as they should be. I hear a lot of "well design is an art, not a science" type of wishy-washy statements (the audio industry seems to be the worst), but ultimately science is definitely a part. They should be as wild as they like in the concept and prototype stages, but everything should go through a careful measurement filter before further work. Hopefully they can do better next time around, they certainly have the engineering chops to produce excellent work. Everyone produces duds once in a while, if it's not a pattern then they can bounce right back with a useful lesson learned.
Thanks again for the balanced review. Reply
Olaf van der Spek - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkI'd optimize for depth instead of height. mATX, ODD above board, PSU and HDDs below. Straight front to back airflow. 2x 140 or 2x 180 in front should be enough. Depth of 350mm should be achievable. Reply
Dustin Sklavos - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkActually a single 180mm can more or less nail it:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4533/silverstone-tem... Reply
Olaf van der Spek - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkThe TJ08-E is nice but a bit too cramped and a bit too long. Reply
Iketh - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkHow is this cramped??
http://www.overclock.net/gallery/image/view/album/... Reply
Olaf van der Spek - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkYou forgot to install the HDD cage... Reply
Iketh - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkI already have 3 HDDs installed, why do I need the cage? Reply
Iketh - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkBTW, that's a passively cooled 2600k @ 4.3GHz at 79C with prime load WITH THE DOORS OFF
however, evo + 2600k is lapped Reply
Olaf van der Spek - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkPassive? As in no fans at all?
Without the cage the case looks good. Reply
wifiwolf - Sunday, June 17, 2012 - linkDoesn't seem right to passively cool the cpu and have fan in the front and back.
The noise will still be there, having a low noise cpu fan there wouldn't add any noticeable noise Reply
Iketh - Sunday, June 17, 2012 - linkthen i guess when i tested the noise levels with and without and found a very noticeable improvement, i must be absolutely incompetent to make the judgement... thank you for showing me the path wifiwolf Reply
doctormonroe - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkPC-X500/PC-X500FX in the mATX formfactor would be brilliant, hopefully it would be cheaper as well... Reply
etamin - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkI've been wondering why Lian Li (or any other company) hasn't employed the 90 degree rotated design that Silverstone uses. Is it under patent protection? Reply
InterClaw - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkIt seems like a major mistake to not let the PSU get its own air from the front, especially since it dumps its hot air at the bottom of the case. The way it is now it just recycles its own hot air. Genius... This is beside all the other cooling problems what with the GFX blocking the flow.
Dustin, I'm curious though why you mounted the CPU cooler horizontally and not vertically to help the airflow along. Was it not possible or is that deviating from the testing methodology since the heat sink might perform differently after being reseated? Reply
RanDum72 - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkI cannot believe that the case designers never thought about where the PSU exhaust is going to come out. The heat generated by the PSU is dumped inside the case. They could have drilled some holes that aligns with the PSU exhaust but even that will also be picked up by the bottom fan and thrown back into the case. All form, no function. Reply
kesbar - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkafter looking at the thermal results, the PC-A55 has carpet burn. Reply
i077 - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkWhat about just simply turn the top exhaust fan around and make it an intake? In that way the CPU area will get some fresh air that it desperately need. The CPU fan can be position to the other side of the heat sink and double as an exhaust fan, or just add an 140mm to the back.
The power supply positioning is a massive failure though. It has no dedicated intake or out take, and ends up being a pure heat generator tuck away at the bottom corner. If they just poke some hole in the front panel and at the bottom and separate the PSU into its own thermal zone this case could have been something.
Hopefully they do a revision soon, the case does look sharp and uses space wisely. Reply
Pazz - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkShame about the poor thermals but I suppose to be expected when they adopt a vertical system without rotating the mainboard.
I do like the small form factor full-ATX idea though since a lot of standard ATX cases are approaching gigantic. The average enthusiast doesn't require 7x 5.25" or 6x 3.5" bays. Particularly now that SSD's are mainstream and optical drives superflous.
PC-A05NB FTW (note I did not type A05FNB) Reply
mbf - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - link...might just possibly help with cooling in this case. Reply
SimKill - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkI'm a regular lurker here, but I think in this specific review you've made an unnaturally high number of mentions of the complete model number instead of using words like "it", "it's" etc. Reply
Dustin Sklavos - Sunday, June 17, 2012 - linkI think you're just seeing things. Why would I do something like that? Reply
erwendigo - Monday, June 18, 2012 - linkBecause you have a very bad sense of humor (cheapest). And "we" (more than one) can see it. Reply
Dustin Sklavos - Monday, June 18, 2012 - linkHey, I don't go to your place of business and insult you. Reply
AssBall - Tuesday, June 19, 2012 - linkLian Li might disagree with that statement, relative to how the article was titled.
But you can't stay mad at what was essentially a completely honest and well done review. If your product is ass, its ass. Reply
mcbowler - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkLIAN LI,
Please hire me to design a case. Reply
etrigan420 - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkReally?
I expected a little more from Anandtech. Reply
Dustin Sklavos - Sunday, June 17, 2012 - linkConsidering the mountain of cheap laughs I got working on this review, I'm happy to disappoint you. Reply
eBob - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkMy current case is full ATX and is smaller than that! I was actually considering going micro-ATX for my next build, but couldn't find a motherboard that I liked. Reply
crackedwiseman - Saturday, June 16, 2012 - linkA couple of years ago I did a build for a customer in an A05, which, similarly to the A55, tries to fit an ATX board in an mATX sized enclosure. It was a bit cramped, but not that bad, and thermal performance was solid given that I had an overclocked i7-920 and a GTX 260 in there. The A05 had a totally different internal layout; I can't image why they decided to change it - this is anything but an improvement Reply
rickcain2320 - Thursday, June 21, 2012 - linkThe A05 doesn't work well unless you cut a hole in the top or add a slot fan. I never kept the front panel on because of heating concerns, which turned out to be true as my motherboard chipset fried from the heat, taking out the video card in the process. Reply
PortsOrBust - Sunday, June 17, 2012 - link"Unfortunately, a case I can't find any argument for."
This thought may be anathema on a "latest and greatest" enthusiast site, but if one simply wanted a small ATX case, and used only on-board ports with no additional cards, it seems to me that most of the other issues are not deal-killers.
Granted the PSU mount isn't ideal, but without add-in cards the airflow would likely overcome that problem, and finding a way to raise the box off the floor a half an inch or so isn't a big deal either.
Some people will pay $110 for the size and looks of a case, but aren't looking to spend $400 on the latest and greatest video card.
So, its by no means a perfect case, or even the best example of a compact case, but that doesn't mean there's no argument for it . . . Reply
Dustin Sklavos - Sunday, June 17, 2012 - linkExcept if you're not going to use any expansion cards, what's the point of going with a full ATX board instead of Micro-ATX or even Mini-ITX? Reply
erwendigo - Monday, June 18, 2012 - linkThe better quality of a good ATX motherboard, a very "little" point.
This review is a shame. You lost the point of a minimal case ATX, you had overestimate the importance of temperatures in a system that it isn´t in the enthusiast niche.
This case have a very specific niche, but you missundertood this and its rol.
And the worse, you made a lot of badass jokes. :-/ Reply
plamengv - Sunday, June 17, 2012 - linkLian Li PC-A55 compared to Antec NSK-4000 is a monster. Lian Li never had such a good case as Antec is! Reply
Alchemy69 - Sunday, June 17, 2012 - linkThis will do until NZXT release their M0-U7H case and then I'll go from A55 to M0-U7H. Reply
dave1_nyc - Sunday, June 17, 2012 - linkI'll probably wind up feeling like a dumbass for saying this, but I can' t believe that the dimensions are correct, esp the height, which is shown as 17.6". One of my machines systems uses a Fractal R3, which feels far more spacious, (and which has room for the PSU under the ATX slots), and it's about the same height.
It measures a little bit higher from the floor, but then it has taller feet, and hence more space under the case for air intake.
So what am I missing? How can this case be almost 18" high and yet have so little vertical space? Reply
poloa - Tuesday, March 12, 2013 - linkThey seem to have quoted the package dimensions in this review, not the case dimensions :-/ The outside dimensions are really the best feature of this case! (W) 188mm x (H) 375mm x (D) 455mm Reply
Mugur - Sunday, June 17, 2012 - linkI can't see any picture at all in the article. What's wrong? Reply
cjb110 - Monday, June 18, 2012 - linkme too:( Reply
996GT2 - Sunday, June 17, 2012 - linkAnandtech has now reviewed both the A05FN and A55. However, I believe that both of these cases have inferior designs compared to the original PC-A05N. The A05N retains the inverted layout first seen in the A05A, and the back to front airflow design is arguably much better for CPU cooling. It would be nice to see a review of the older A05N to see whether Lian Li has been going downhill in their more recent designs. Reply
Leyawiin - Monday, June 18, 2012 - linkI think they are going downhill. I have an PC-A05NB with the optional 140mm top lid and its very cool running and a very clever design. These last two are pretty disappointing. Reply
Zink - Sunday, June 17, 2012 - linkWhen the site came back this was supposed to be Anand's review of the new Macbook. I can understand him needing a bit of sleep but save the battery rundown tests for next week and let someone remote in to your LAN to run benches. Reply
cjs150 - Monday, June 18, 2012 - linkThis is based on the A05N which was a great little case if you are into watercooling, the inverted designed dealt with the airflow problem by having the GPU at the top of the case.
A55 might still be a good watercooling case if you stick to micro ATX cards because the bottom of the case looks perfect for a thick 240 radiator but instead of being a simple case to use, a fair bit of modding seems to be needed.
Go back to the inverted design. Actually scrub the design and start again Reply
piroroadkill - Monday, June 18, 2012 - linkCut a side blowhole and the core issue is solved. Why isn't there one? what the hell.. Reply
superccs - Monday, June 18, 2012 - linkI have the A05 which has the PSU up front and it the rocks rear intake and front exhaust format well. CPU gets fresh air straight from a 120mm in the rear, the GPU gets frech air from a 1200mm in the side panel and everything is blown out the front by a 120mm and the PSU.
That format works great, but WTH is with this mutant case? Do case designers know that the primary goal is to have a slick looking enclosure that keeps everything cool?
Lian Li, please loose whoever designed this case in next years floods. Reply
grave00 - Monday, June 18, 2012 - link"In case you're not interested in a black PC-A55"
Really, who wouldn't be interested in that? I think we could all use a black PC-A55.
It's like shooting the broad side of a barn isn't it? Reply
Bitmap - Tuesday, June 19, 2012 - linkI laughed my A55 off Reply
MadAd - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - link"We're at a juncture now where there are very few reasons to go with an ATX motherboard over a Micro-ATX board"
Exactly!! PC form factors need a reboot if they are to survive the next 10 years onslaught of tablets. ITX is a fantastic format limited only by its 17x17 size allowing only a single expansion slot and 2 channels of ram - and that really makes sense when paired with a low profile card in a thin case ... as soon as we need some HDDs, or a larger graphic card, or a soundcard and a graphics card then theres a big void between that and the 4 slot uATX format, filled only by the defunct DTX format (that imo with only 2 slots really didnt give much more of an option to ITX.)
My ideal board would have 3 expansions, 2x16 and 1xPCI, 4 Ram Slots and 6 Satas in a size not much bigger than ITX however this is all moot since the biggest problem is elsewhere too, we still have a problem with things like PSUs, they need to be smaller, same with Optical RW drives, do we need more than a laptop slimline size for opticals?
The first CD i burned in the last century was in a 5.25" bay, while we cant do anything about the width of the disk certainly it could slimline allowing sideways mounting yet there are no standard mountings for slimline Optical drives in the ATX spec.
Apart from the wishful thinking I do believe its time to step down from these humongous tower cases. I am already planning my next build into a uATX but of course anandtech doesnt really cover uATX stuff now does it *grin* Reply
rickcain2320 - Thursday, June 21, 2012 - linkI have the previous version of this case and it has a severe hot spot at the top. The addition of the exhaust fan at the top hopefully resolves this problem. They rotated the power supply so it blows in rather than out (I guess) which is good, because the old fan direction was right over the hard drives, bathing them in warm air from your GPU and CPU. I regularly kept my front panel off because of overheating.
Makes me wonder if I do some minor surgery and flip my fans over, could I achieve something similar? Reply
manythings - Tuesday, October 20, 2015 - linkI have read this several times and still didn't get the joke about the name of the unit. Is it about being "PC"? But every Lian Li case is a PC. Could the author explain the joke? Thanks Reply


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Galaxy Nexus & Ice Cream Sandwich: Initial Performance Analysisby Anand Lal Shimpi on 11/18/2011 11:42 PM EST
69 Comments
Back to Article
slaughter111 - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkNice phone, but for some reason I want to hold out for something based on the new Nvidia quadcore. But still, very nice phone. Reply
uwndrd - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkThat would be SO nice to see Tegra 3 benchmark results, especially GPU. Especially, in comparison with Ipad 2's one. Reply
djdiff - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkHere you go (in swedish though, but the charts are self-explanatory):
http://www.nordichardware.se/nyheter/476-tablets/4... Reply
Guspaz - Monday, November 21, 2011 - linkFor those who don't want to bother to click through, the Tegra 3's GPU is a bit faster than a Mali400, but way slower than an SGX543MP2.
Somewhat disappointing that it's not even beating current GPUs, but at least the performance is decent. Reply
Alexvrb - Sunday, November 27, 2011 - linkYeah everyone thought Tegra 3 would be the end-all be-all. Not so much. Now people are starting to see why Sony didn't go with a Tegra 3 solution for the NGP. Sure, there are some nice features in Tegra 3, like the extra low power CPU core. But graphics? NGP is getting an SGX543MP4 with dedicated high-speed VRAM. In terms of graphics performance it'll be at a very minimum twice as powerful as whats in an iPad2, and I suspect 3-4 times as fast.
Not to mention that as a dedicated gaming platform, there are no compatibility concerns, so developers can feel free to code closer to the metal where necessary. With all that said, I still probably won't get an NGP or any other dedicated portable. Phone is good enough for light gaming on the go, and any other time I'm gaming it's in front of a monitor or TV. Reply
TareX - Monday, November 28, 2011 - linkThat is the sad truth regarding Vita's inevitable demise.... I barely find time for gaming on my Tegra 2 phone. Reply
r3loaded - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkThe Asus Transformer Prime is out next month, so we'll probably find out then. I'm expecting this quad-core monster to walk all over previous chips. :) Reply
MonkeyPaw - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkI doubt it. Sure, 4 A9 cores plus the A7 helper core will be nice, but how much multithreading will we on a mobile APU? Also, Tegra 3's GPU is outgunned by Mali and the SGX543, and Tegra3 uses only a single channel memory interface. Too many "ifs" for those extra cores to really impress, IMO. I think Tegra3+ will be more of what Tegra3 should have been at launch. Reply
sigmatau - Sunday, November 20, 2011 - linkThe Nvidia chip is just beginning to catch up to Apple's GPU. I think Apple's GPU is still a larger piece of silicon, similar amount of cores, and more memory bandwidth.
It's just sad that such a great GPU is on such a fucking crappy phone with such a fucking crappy small screen with fucking Apple standing over you as you "attempt" to use their phone like you want to or should be able to. Reply
vision33r - Sunday, November 20, 2011 - linkApple does not make or design the GPU, it's a SG PowerVR GPU.
Right now it is like 1996 all over with the PowerVR kicking Nividia's TNT2. Reply
Alexvrb - Sunday, November 27, 2011 - linkBack then PowerVR didn't have the partners or cash to keep pushing forward aggressively enough. They made some nice chips and some key design wins here and there, but they weren't able to beat them in volume or profits.. The last competitive-at-time-of-launch desktop chips they released was Series 3 built by STM (Kyro and Kyro II). I owned one of each at some point, they were quite good for the money at the time.
Anyway, I think they're in a much better position these days in the mobile market, than they ever were in the PC/console markets. They have been taking the mobile market by storm ever since MBX. Series 5 (SGX) is doing awesome and Series 6 looks to continue this trend in the near future. Reply
jeremyshaw - Monday, November 21, 2011 - linkYou realize Apple's 3.5" display uses a "squat"-er aspect ratio at 960x640, and the actual screen area measured in mm^2 is comparable to a 960x540 ~4" display, right? Reply
MamiyaOtaru - Monday, November 21, 2011 - linkhis post illustrates *one* of the reasons widescreen monitors are the norm: marketing. A 22" widescreen monitor has significantly less area than a 22" 4:3 monitor. In the same way, he's looking at these "bigger" widescreen handsets, and believing they actually are bigger since they have a larger horizontal value, when actual surface area is about the same Reply
kebab77 - Thursday, December 08, 2011 - linkQuad-core A9's may well be slower than dual-core A15's:
http://www.bestsmartphone.com/2011/12/08/samsung-w... Reply
Death666Angel - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkYeah, depending on what phone you have, you can really wait.
I have an SGS2 (since it was released in May) and am very content with it. I don't think I'll upgrade until late 2012 when 28nm Quad and 720p+ is there. Or I'll keep the phone and get a 7" tablet to go along with it. Reply
ProfessionalGun - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkThis is the first time I've really been able to see how the Galaxy Nexus's GPU might stack up against those in other top tier phones. Thanks for laying it out in this way - and also for not disparaging the SGX 540 just because it's not the fastest of the bunch. A lot of people act like it's a huge hardware misstep - so it's nice to read that the 540 is a competent GPU.
I really cannot wait for this phone to finally become available. I'm frustrated that it seems to be caught-up in Verizon-launch-schedule-politics. (That's my perception, anyway.) Reply
stm1185 - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkI think it is a huge hardware misstep, here they have their premier phone for 4.0, one boasting a 720p display and they put in it a GPU that is not even 50% as powerful as the one in the iPhone 4s. They get people want to play games on their phones right.
Will the Galaxy Nexus have frame rate problems playing next years new games at its native resolution that the iPhone 4s and the SGS2 phones wont? I am guessing it's likely. Reply
Herp Derpson - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkAndroid has NO GAMES, so it doesn't need best gpu. SGX 540 is competent enoug to accelerate interface, decode video and has pretty decent performance. Also there isn't a single android video player that can use GPU to accelerate videos non-compatible with default player (like MKVs). Reply
uwndrd - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkThere is one video player with HW acceleration - DicePlayer. Go check it out, it has lite version or something. Reply
Herp Derpson - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkThat's pretty awesome, thanks! Reply
tommo123 - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkon my sgs2, i can play 1080p AVC videos just fine as it's accelerated - MKV too. i tend to re-encode things i keep on the phone due to file size but other things i just want to watch and delete on a train or whatever - i'll just throw the mkv on there and the default video app works just fine.
mx video player on android also does accelerated decoding for some file types. Reply
iuqiddis - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkThere are actually several players that support hardware accelerated video in mkv containers for android. Dice player, mentioned by the poster above me, is probably the best. On a HTC Sensation, I can watch 720p mkv's perfectly. The developer claims that 1080p is also possible, but I haven't had the opportunity to test that yet.
Out of curiosity, does anyone know a hardware accelerated video player for iOS that can play h264-encoded mkv files? I've been looking for one (VLC isn't in the market any longer), but can't find one that works. Thanks. Reply
piiman - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - link"Android has NO GAMES"
Say what? Perhaps you meant games you like because it certainly does have games. Reply
augustofretes - Sunday, November 20, 2011 - linkThe game selection is crap compared to iOS selection (SGS II owner, waiting anxiously for ICS). Reply
jalexoid - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkDungeon Defenders game developer will disagree with NO GAMES statement. Reply
tipoo - Sunday, November 20, 2011 - link"Android has NO GAMES"
Trollface.jpg. Infinity Blade aside, I've never been left wanting for Android games, it has more than I could possibly get through, some of quite high quality like Nova 2 and Need for Speed. Reply
steven75 - Monday, November 21, 2011 - linkThose games are quite old hat for iOS though. Reply
Exodite - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkAnd if you don't play games on your phone?
Or the games you do play are Wordfeud or Angry Birds?
At what point does it stop being worthwhile to include a SoC that's literally twice as big, potentially using more juice for GPU operations due to the higher complexity of said part?
I can see the allure of top everything in a phone but frankly it's the whole package that matters. Personally I'd consider the lack of microSD-slot and 'meh' camera to be far worse issues than not standing up to the A5 or Exnyos in GPU performance.
It makes sense to wait for 28nm SoCs before pushing significantly improved GPU performance. Reply
B3an - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - link....Yet the iToy 4S or even the SGSII both prove that you can have far better GPU's but ALSO have great battery life and in a small and thin form factor. Theres simply no reason not to have a better GPU in this phone, and with a res of 720p it really needs it.
Even the UI will suffer not just games - the Android UI is laggy on Honeycomb tablets with the same res as this phone. One of the things causing this lag is the underpowered Tegra 2 GPU, and this phone has a GPU in the same league as that. Reply
Pipperox - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkNope.
Laggy UI on Android come from a lack of proper GPU acceleration, not from Tegra II being too slow.
The iPhone 4 (non -S) had a GPU which was HALF as fast as the SGX540, a high resolution retina display, and yet the UI was butter smooth all the time.
ICS seems to run super smooth on the Galaxy Nexus, thanks to the new sw optimizations, without any need for a faster GPU (except for demanding 3d games). Reply
jalexoid - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkActually UI in ICS is H/W accelerated by default. Reply
eallan - Wednesday, November 23, 2011 - linkThere is a whole lot of justification going around for picking a sub par GPU.
The thing is, if they had included the 4S GPU or something more powerful, there wouldn't be a single complaint on any tech site.
They skimped, period. For cost savings or driver support, who knows. They did skimp though. Reply
Exodite - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkBattery life is mostly dependent upon the usage scenarios. I get 7-10 days out of my Xperia arc but I reckon very few others can say the same.
Point being that not many people actually need a powerful GPU in their smartphones, in which case the larger/more expensive chip makes little sense.
Of course it's a good idea to push for better performance on all levels but that's better off at 28nm, where a more advanced GPU wouldn't come at such a high price.
Personally I'd say the GPU is sufficient as soon as it can handle 1080p60 output and video decoding. But that's me, I still use my phone mostly as a phone. Reply
piiman - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - link"Battery life is mostly dependent upon the usage scenarios. I get 7-10 days out of my Xperia arc but I reckon very few others can say the same."
Come on! Do you ever turn it on and use it? Reply
Exodite - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkOh it's always on, I'm just not a compulsive user. Reply
stm1185 - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkThis argument is like backwards deja-vu. Except instead of the Apple product having the subpar graphics and fanboys defending that against PC users and their SLI'd super machines, its now Android fanboys defending it against the iPhone 4s and its over 200% faster GPU.
Android phones need some Tegra 3 love already. Reply
Exodite - Sunday, November 20, 2011 - linkWhy does it always have to be defensive?
Noone is questioning the fact that A5 has a significantly stronger GPU. It's just one of those components where the trade off in die real estate and cost doesn't necessarily make sense, certainly not for all users.
Everyone can immediately benefit from a stronger CPU, the same can't be said of an A5-class GPU.
Of course it would have been awesome with a stronger GPU as well but while the lack of such is s strike against the Galaxy Nexus it's a trivial concern compared to the lack of microSD-slot, for example. IMHO obviously, just pointing out that the GPU isn't a primary concern for /all/ users - as opposed to, say, the CPU or battery.
As for Tegra 3 it's unlikely it's going to be competing with the A5 either, at least as I understand it from what we know today. Reply
jalexoid - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkiPhone4s has been plagued on battery ever since it launch, compared to iPhone4 or even SGS2. Reply
Tegeril - Sunday, November 20, 2011 - linkFor certain users in specific circumstances, yes. I went 4->Nexus S->4S and the battery life for me is the same or better. The Nexus S I used in between was so sad in comparison. Reply
jalexoid - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkIt's not a misstep. It's a baseline device. Every other manufacturer now has an idea how an average ICS phone should look like. Historically it's been the case with Nexus launches - it's the baseline for Android devices.
Nexus One - baseline for 2010.
Nexus S - baseline for 2011.
Galaxy Nexus - baseline for 2012. Reply
Electrofreak - Sunday, November 20, 2011 - linkI disagree completely, stm1185. The SGX 540 in the Galaxy Nexus is a GPU that has long been hobbled by the slow memory it's been paired with on a single-channel memory controller, as well as feature size limitations that prevented it being clocked as high as it could be.
The SGX 543MP2 in the iPhone 4S is basically a tweaked, dual-core version of the SGX 540, and isn't anything revolutionary, it just eats up more power, costs more money, and requires more die space.
The Mali-400 MP4 in the SGS2 is performing better than the SGX 540 in benchmarks because of fill rate. Read this article by Anand, it explains some of the differences between the GPUs: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4686/samsung-galaxy-...
When it comes to handling polygon counts though, the SGX 540 is actually much more capable. Next year's games will be very poly-intensive and this is where the SGX 540 can actually start outperforming the Mali-400 in the SGS2.
Regardless, it's basically a moot point. The 304 MHz SGX 540 in the Galaxy Nexus still performs better overall than Qualcomm's Adreno 220 and the NVIDIA GeForce ULP currently in Tegra 2 phones. There are still high-end phones launching with those GPUs and if we should be worrying about any phones struggling with games next year, we should be worrying about those. Reply
vision33r - Sunday, November 20, 2011 - linkNvidia is such a big disappointment. They should be the leader of dedicated graphics.
Let's see if the Tegra 3 gets a bigger improvement, I don't think it will be that big of a jump since Nvidia tends to rush things out the door than getting it right. Reply
thunng8 - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkHuh yourself ..
All the phones were tested at the same resolution to gauge the performance of the GPU. Reply
xype - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkWhich means that the GPU performance in 3D games will be awesome! \o/
On a more serious note—are those 920k pixels on a pentile display also rendered as such or are they effectively less? Or, alternatively, would rendering a smaller resolution and upscaling it be that much worse on such a display? Reply
melgross - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkEffectively less, as they have been for all PenTile displays. Reply
eallan - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkFor all intents and purpose they are treated the same. Regardless of each pixel being 2 subpixels instead of 3, it's still a "pixel." Reply
ZoZo - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkIndeed, they are all tested at 720p offscreen, it's mentioned under the title of the benchmark. So the GPU of the iPhone 4S is more than twice as fast, which isn't surprising considering that it's an evolution of the one in the Nexus, with twice the processing units. Reply
jalexoid - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkIt's 2x as fast in raw performance, but in more down to earth scenarios (Egypt) it's not that far ahead. I blame the memory interface in A5 for the lower scores. Reply
thunng8 - Sunday, November 20, 2011 - linkNot quite sure what you are talking about.
In Egypt the iphone4S is 2.5x faster than the Nexus Galaxy and in Pro it is 2.7x faster. In both benchmarks to is significantly faster than 2X. Reply
jacknhut - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkWould like to see how HTC Rezound perform against this Nexus S since it is after all the biggest rival to the Nexus S at the moment. Reply
jacknhut - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkEdit: Oops not Nexus S, I mean Galaxy Nexus my bad. Reply
staryoshi - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkI was very interested in the Nexus until it was delayed beyond my required time frame... Now I'll just hold out for Tegra 3 smartphones like the HTC Edge. I should learn to program for Tegra anyway :) Reply
stsh0502 - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkI would hold my breath on any HTC phone having a Tegra 3 or any processor not made by Qualcomm Reply
itpromike - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkYou are incorrect about that. Both phones were tested rendering Graphics at 1024x768 which also happens to be the same native screen resolution as the Galaxy Nexus. Essentially the iPhone 4S beats the Galaxy Nexus at it's own game(s) (Pun slightly intended). The iPhone 4S perform even better once bench marked at it's own native resolution. FYI the Graphic chip that's in the Galaxy Nexus is 2 years old and interestingly enough is the same GPU as the original iPhone4... so it's a bit behind. Nice phone though, just lacking on cutting edge performance in some areas. Reply
eallan - Saturday, November 19, 2011 - linkHow do you figure that's the nexus's native resolution? Reply
tipoo - Sunday, November 20, 2011 - linkNot true. The iPhone 4 used the 535, not the 540, and the 540 in the Galaxy Nexus is clocked higher than the 540 in the Nexus S you're probably thinking of, and looking at the benchmarks you can see its easily double the speed of the original 540, don't be fooled by a name. Not as fast as the 543MP2 of course, but its not the same old 540 either. Reply
ananduser - Sunday, November 20, 2011 - linkMac faithful Josh Topolsky of The Verge(hot new tech site) had very good words about this device in his review. And coming from him it must really be good. He rated with 10 both the performance and hardware aspects of this device. Reply
vision33r - Sunday, November 20, 2011 - linkJosh is hardly a Mac guy, more Windows guy. Since he sees an average 3-4 Android devices on a given month. It's hard to give any device a 10 and this is the 1st device to earn that mark. Reply
augustofretes - Sunday, November 20, 2011 - linkJosh is a Windows guy? Sorry, you clearly don't know Josh. He once said "Windows 7 is like poison to me, seriously... what's so great about Windows, come on, tell me one thing it does better than Mac OS X?". But, he's not a fanboy, he said in the same day "No, no, I'm talking about Windows Desktop, Windows Phone 7 is great, and Windows 8 could be great". Reply
jbwhite99 - Sunday, November 20, 2011 - linkI'm not a big gamer - if I wanted to play shoot 'em up games, that's what XBOX, etc are for. What I am more interested in is CPU - and it sounds like this is (for now) the best choice. I agree - would curious to see how the Qualcomm 1.5 Dual (I believe) in the Rezound performs, but thanks for the chart, Anand. I am just hopeful that Verizon at Brier Creek will be giving these phones out tomorrow - my OG Droid is on its last legs. Reply
Rummaged - Sunday, November 20, 2011 - linkIn terms of hardware it looks like it could be the best phone. Anandtech had a hands on review a week ago and then dropped the ball on a full one. WTF guys? Reply
solipsism - Sunday, November 20, 2011 - linkICS is looking pretty good all around. I guess Jobs was right that competition was 5 years behind Apple. Reply
doubledeej - Sunday, November 20, 2011 - linkWhen are we going to add a Windows Phone model or two to the mix? Because they sure feel a lot faster than Android models, and it would be interesting to see the numbers. Reply
augustofretes - Sunday, November 20, 2011 - linkICS supports HW acceleration, just like WP7. Launching Apps and other task intensive activities are faster on current android phones running gingerbread (i.e. SGS II) because they leveled the lack of HW acceleration by having better hardware, the two mixed are simply going to blow current WP7 out of the water. Reply
bmaz - Sunday, November 20, 2011 - linkIt would be nice, for comparison purposes, to have the only available Meego device benchmarked as well. Reply
phantom505 - Sunday, November 20, 2011 - linkOn phones are horribly unreliable.
I have a Droid 3 with an alpha build of CM7 from Hashcode and scored slightly better than the iPhone 4S. Kinda sad since this phone is already well over 6 months old. Reply
steven75 - Monday, November 21, 2011 - linkYou're also running a completely unsupported OS. Why you think that comparison is fair is the question. Reply
Omid.M - Monday, November 21, 2011 - linkAnand/Brian,
Why do you guys think they didn't opt to use the 4470? According to the schedule I saw, it should've been in production around the time as the 4430/4460, unless I misread what I saw.
I'm still amazed they didn't wait for Krait for the 2nd gen LTE modem. About to pickup the Nexus but might hold off until January; have a trip coming up in December :(
@moids Reply
watch phone - Friday, November 25, 2011 - linkThe Samsung Galaxy Nexus is the first smartphone with the latest Android 4.0 (Ice Cream Sandwich) operating system. Except for the tiny amount of bezel on the top and bottom and a slender sliver on either side, the front of this phone is almost all screen.
Samsung google GALAXY Nexus Prime Experience video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bd73fvDyfU Reply


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More Single Card Dual GPU Madness: NVIDIA's Flagship 9800 GX2by Derek Wilson on 3/18/2008 9:00 AM EST
- Posted in
- GPUs
50 Comments
Back to Article
archerprimemd - Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - linki apologize for the noob question, just didn't know where to look for the info:
dual gpu single card or single gpu dual cards (meaning, in SLI)
which is better?
also, isn't having the 2 gpus in one card sort of like doing an SLI? Reply
Tephlon - Friday, April 04, 2008 - link"dual gpu single card or single gpu dual cards (meaning, in SLI)
which is better?"
To be honest, these seems to very based on timing and pricing.
For instance, back in the 7 series, I bought two 7800GT's and SLI'd them. About a week later, the 7950GX2 became available. It offered similar (if not better in some cases) performance than the two 7800gt's, so I returned the gt's and got the GX2.
But at the same time... The 7800 Ultra's were available... and two of those in SLI were better than the GX2... but for nearly twice the money.
Again, this might vary generation to generation, so YMMV.
"also, isn't having the 2 gpus in one card sort of like doing an SLI?"
the short answer is yes. I actually posted about this in more detail just a few pages ago, so for more on the subject see http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3266...">http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3266... Reply
Tephlon - Friday, April 04, 2008 - linkoops, sorry.
I meant to say see my post at http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3266...">http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3266...
Its about half way down the comments page. or you can just search 'Tephlon' Reply
SlingXShot - Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - linkYou know 3dfx tried this SLI madness, and put 16 chips on one board...and you know they failed...these products are not attractive to standard joe and the only people who care are the ones who install new computer for a living. Is it not good practice puting 4 video cards together. People want new design, etc. Reply
Ravensong - Friday, March 21, 2008 - linkOk, here's what I don't get and I hope someone can clarify this for me. In the article "ATI Radeon HD 3870 X2: 2 GPUs 1 Card, A Return to the High End" the CoD4 benchmarks running at 1920x1200 HQ settings, 0x AA/16x AF give a result of 107.3 fps yet this article's benchmark shows a result of 53.8 for 1920x1200. When I saw this I yelled out like like Lil Jon "WHAAT??" How did the frames drop this much? Perhaps the new 8.3 drivers are raping performance? This seems to be the case with every benchmark other than Crysis which received a minor increase from the 8.3 drivers. I'm not a fanboy for ATI/AMD by any means but I hardly see these scores as fair when just a few video articles ago this thing was doing well and then all the sudden it has piss poor performance when the GX2 launches. Reading this site on a daily basis I figured that the weird drop in performance would have been noted?? Not sure if anyone else noticed this but I surely did right away. I know I've had nothing but headaches atm with 8.3 and trying to get the 4 3850's I bought running in crossfire X. Thankfully thats just my secondary rig, if it had been my main I may have smashed it into pieces by now :D Reply
TheDudeLasse - Friday, March 21, 2008 - linkIt's gotta be Catalyst 8.3
The scores im getting with 8.2 are 70% better.
Ravensong - Friday, March 21, 2008 - linkDefinitely, no other explanation as to why the scores are so horrid compared to only a month and a half ago when the original benches debuted. I wish all the sites using 8.3 would correct this injustice!! lol... Hardocp went as far as saying "The Radeon HD 3870 X2 gets utterly and properly owned, this is true "pwnage" on the highest level." ... just wow. :D Reply
Ravensong - Saturday, March 22, 2008 - linkAny comments on this dilemma Sir Wilson?? (referring to the author) :D Reply
TheDudeLasse - Friday, March 21, 2008 - linkI think you may have had some driver issues with the 3870X2.
Im running a firstname.lastname@example.com and 3870x2.
I´ve been running the same benchmarks as you describe and the results are completely different.
For instance Call of Duty benchmark results vary almost over 70%
I ran the same benchmark "We start FRAPS as soon as the screen clears in the helicopter and we stop it right as the captain grabs his head gear."
1920x1200 4xAA and 16AF Your result 42.3 fps average
My result 76.056fps average
That's an over 75% improvment to your score.
What's the jig? screwed up catalyst drivers or what?
7Enigma - Thursday, March 20, 2008 - linkDerek,
I see you have not answered the requests regarding why 8800GT and 8800GTS SLI was not included in these benchmarks. I can understand if you were not allowed to due to some Nvidia NDA, and why you might not be able to talk about it.
If you could please reply with a :) if this is the case, we would be greatly appreciative. Otherwise it looks like there is a gaping whole in this reveiw.
Thank you. Reply
dare2savefreedom - Thursday, March 20, 2008 - linki just wanted you guys to know that your doing a poor job.
I checked toms,guru,techpower and they all kick your butt.
Techpower even took the card apart
things you should do next time:
1) more Fing pictures - did you really review the card?
2) use a amd 4400 and see what happens - real world check - this would be different from everyone else since everyone else did an overpriced intel cpu test.
2a) test with an realistic price range intel processor core2 8400 or 8200
3) put rulers in the pictures
4) try thief 2 for an old game check, somebody on the forums is complaining about nvidia drivers
5) where da fear bench?
6) bench at least 1 racing game.
7) stop playing with your mac and do the review.
8) where the pci scan listing,i dont get an idea of how the card appears - is it hidden from pci scans that there are 2 boards
9) a good artist copies a great artist steals
DoctorDeath - Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - linkI bought two 9800GX2s from www.dandh.com for $562 each and even without good drivers these cards start to shine after 1600x1200. I sold my three 8800Ultras to by them and i am not sorry that i did. When the new quad drivers are release next week they are going to make a big diff in performance. My 2nd machine has two 512 8800GTS's and to be honest they do not come close in performance. Both machines have 780i boards and overclocked QX9650s and the same 4Gbs of memory,even the same 1200w power supplys.So people that are saying the the GX2 is the same as running 512 8800GTS's are wrong,and the performance proves that. Reply
gochichi - Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - linkWhile the 8800GT may be great, the GTS 512MB adds just enough that you feel like you went absurdly overboard without breaking the bank.
I just purchased a very nice but basic Quad-Core processor based Dell. If I wanted to go absolutely crazy without pitching a wonderful computer away, I would go with this ultra mega card (and a power supply definitely).
I think it's very wise of NVIDIA and ATI to offer something up for the people not willing to go through the hassle (or apparent hassle) of SLI. I mean, I know people that don't know much and they ask me about stuff... and sometimes they just want to splurge on something. They don't necessarily want to build a gaming rig from the ground up.
We are very unique in our obsessions with computer parts and sensitivity to their price. Look at how well Apple is doing. Most people have more money than they have hardware expertise.
$599.00 really is quite "reasonable". At least it TROUNCES the competition, it's not like it's close in terms of single slot performance. Compare that with buying two 8800GT's, replacing the motherboard, hoping everything pans out, re-certifying Vista (if it's even possible from an OEM version of it... literally OEM like Dell, Gateway, etc). Etc... this seems like you spend money (of which you may have much readily available, it's completely wrong to assume that money is tight for everyone) slap it in (change of power supply which messes this up, and I think this is a very big obstacle, as big as the price) and it pretty much "just works".
The black case is very elegant, very desirable looking. Does average joe still want a MacBook Air, or does he want an 9800GX2 and a MacBook? You know what I'm saying here? It's not like we don't buy frivolous stuff ALL OF THE TIME. I have a pair of $250.00 jeans... I am absurd. I just bought YET ANOTHER computer... I am absurd. (Aren't you as well? Do you burn up $200.00 of fuel each month instead of taking the bus?) I don't see why pick this wonderful piece of hardware out as particularly absurd. Like I said, not requiring SLI is huge. SLI = expert/geek and/or SLI= Extremely overpriced computer with glowing lights.
After seeing these benchmarks, there is a part of me that knows that this won't be beat out in a couple of years... so why not just buy it and get it over with. I am kind of in the market for a card... why not add $400.00 to the budget and experience "too much" for a change.
And then I come back to reality, a reality where every game except Crysis will run fantastically on 1920x1200 on the very high-tech, slick, modern, efficient, 9600GT or "splurging" for the slightly less elegant 8800GTS 512 which is only a handful of dollars more than the standard 8800GT. This reality includes 8GB of RAM for merely $150.00 (and yet I don't have 8GB of RAM). Main reason I'm bending more towards 9600GT is that I really don't want to mess with a new powersupply.
I'm telling you all right now. If this 9800 GX2 wonderfulness were something small, and silent that you could just plug into a USB port (imagine here, try to think like normal people for a minute) and it would accelerate the crap out of games... it would become a best selling video card even at $600.00.
You know what's really absurd? That we read about cards that are less outstanding than this card. I mean this card is a "Ferrari", it's never lame to gawk at a Ferrari. Sadly, I spend most of my time learning about the specs on the next Corolla.
Buying this card may not be so awesome (for me at this particular time) but in terms of reading it is definitely awesome. I'm more of a daily commuter type.
instant - Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - linkSomehow I feel it would be fitting to include the 7950GX2 in the test of its successor.
AnnonymousCoward - Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - linkPage 2 says "Windows XP is still limited by a 3 frame render ahead), Quad SLI will be able to implement a 4 frame AFR". Is this the same as the setting that used to appear in the nvidia control panel called "max frames to render ahead"?
That setting causes input lag. I use RivaTuner to force it to 1 frame, because at the default of 3 frames, games like Oblivion, Mythos, and Hellgate (and probably many others) have input lag at high resolutions! Does Quad SLI require 4 frames of rendering ahead / buffering? If so, forget it! Reply
dare2savefreedom - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linki dont get it you guys are mac lovers so maybe you could counterculture or think different:
How about instead of showing exactly the same stuff that every other hw site shows why don't you guys show the 9800gx2 with a amd x2 4200 or something or amd x2 6000
i can justify spending 500 on a video card because i know it's worth it but 1000 on a intel cpu that you guys usually bench with it not something that gives me value - i could sli 8800gtxs for that 1000 for a cpu.
Le Québécois - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkThe main idea is to remove as much limitation for the GPU as it is possible so you can have an idea of how it really perform when "nothing" else slow it down. Reply
andylawcc - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkthe chart only shows results in the highest resolution setting, in which, the ATI 3x 3870 fails behind both 9800GX2 and 9600GT SLI. However, the 3x 3870 leads the 9600GT SLI for the majority of the time in lower resolution. Reply
JarredWalton - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkYou don't normally buy a $600 video card to play at 1280x1024, or for many even 1920x1200. For this type of GPU, I think 30" LCDs are going to be reasonable. Which is to say that I don't think a lot of people are going to buy one of these, because it's so expensive, but if you have the money for a 9800 GX2 you probably have the money for a 30" LCD. Regardless, we have the resolution scaling charts for people that *do* care about other resolutions.
Note also that there are some oddities in the results - i.e. 9600 GT SLI really shouldn't even match the 9800 GX2 in any situation, considering it has less memory bandwidth, half the number of shaders, fewer ROPs, and a lower core speed. And yet it does come out ahead in some of the tests in this article. We're still investigating that; the GX2 should actually be a lot closer to 8800 GTS 512MB SLI performance - i.e. faster than 8800 Ultra SLI in many cases. Reply
coldpower27 - Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - link9600 GT SLI would have greater ROP power as your still dealing with 16 ROP per board wit 256Bit interfaces each. The additional ROP power comes from the higher Core speed in that setup.
Should this card be faster then 8800 Ultra SLI? That setup has more memory bandwidth due to greater memory interface and higher memory clocks, and more ROP power due to having 2 sets of 24 ROP blocks. From reviews I have seen, 8800 GTS 512 SLI is about equal to 8800 GTX SLI, with GTX SLI winning as you get to higher resolutions.
All things equal I would expect this card to slot somewhere between the 8800 GTS 512 SLI setup and the 8800 GT SLI setup. For the most part that is the case, I see it is indeed faster the the 8800 GT SLI looking at the TechReport results, not too sure on the 8800 GTS 512 SLI. Reply
andylawcc - Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - linkokay, thanks for explaining. I never phantom myself playing at resolution beyond 1600x1200. It's just cost too much to get "one notch" above 1920x1200 with the extra cost for monitor and video card. Reply
Le Québécois - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkHaving 2 8800 GT in SLI, I know there are some games that either don't show any amelioration for SLI(not a problem here) or become really unstable to the point of being unplayable. One title that comes to mind now is Colin McRae:DiRT. I have to disable SLI every time I want to play it. Even some of the fixes suggested on the official nVidia forum don't works for me.
Now I don't want tech support;)...
I just want to know what would happen with a games like that and the 9800GX2 (or the 3870 X2 for that matter) since those cards "sli" configuration can't be disable since the driver doesn't see those cards as dual card configuration but rather one single card. Reply
Tephlon - Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - linkSorry to be kind of off topic by not answering your question specifically- I actually don't own either card and can't comment on their specific operation.
But your concern is quite valid, in fact the SLI issues seem to become more complicated with the hybrid "two cards in one" solutions than that of a normal two-card SLI setup.
"...since those cards "sli" configuration can't be disabled since the driver doesn't see those cards as dual card configuration but rather one single card."
Unless I just missed it in the review, there's nothing to make me believe this is actually true. It's certainly not true for nvidia's previous dual-card, the 7950gx2. While the term 'single card' makes it sound as if it would actually operate as a single card, both the OS and the Drivers see the 7950gx2 twice, as two cards. Within the drivers, you disable SLI the same as if there were two physical cards in the system, sli'd together. It RELIES on this to function at it's full potential... or, in other words, is literally nothing more than just two cards sli'd, only crammed into one slot. Again, there's nothing to make me believe this wouldn't be true for the 9800 GX2 as well.
This is actually the reason why I can never see myself owning one of these cards, maybe even ever do SLI in general, again.
One annoyance that I discovered from owning the 7950gx2, is that while it is 'technically' two cards strapped together by SLI, nvidia doesn't consider it as such. It uses SLI profiles, and relies heavily on driver tweaks and support to optimize it's use with games, but if you try to join the SLI Club to get some support/feedback for your card, they tell you you aren't SLI and boot you out the door.
Nearly every game that came out needed special driver tweaks and profiles to make the game actually run at all, not to mention work correctly using both gpu's. It turned into a "wait 6 months after a games' release for new drivers" type situation. I very seldom could make this $600 powerhouse run a game the way it should right out of the box, or even within the first several weeks of release.
I spent the majority of my time at lans tweaking sli profiles to try to make a game run instead of playing it. Your investment starts to look really worthless really quick when the guy next to you has a $200 value gamer card of the same generation, and can run the game as good as you because you're waiting on driver updates to make both cards work correctly together for the game.
In my opinion, it became a situation of getting all the pains of SLI (tinkering/struggling with SLI profiles, etc) with very few of it's perks (blazing speed/high-end gamer respect and support).
And while my performance seemed decent while the card was the newest, greatest thing, it started to fade the instant the 8 series landed. As new products/sli configurations are released, they become the priority, and my then slightly-dated but serious hunk of technology got thrown under the bus. I swear the support for a game as simple as WoW is worse now for the 7950gx2 than it ever was.
The cards simply seem to become 'not a priority', to the point where you wonder where your 600 dollars went. This seems to be especially true for these complicated, highly driver/profile reliant 'dual cards'.
I bought the 7950 GX2 because even though the reviews had phrases like "the card currently doesn't support that feature (but that will be fixed in a future driver)" (sound familiar?), it was scoring well and seemed like a solid, high-end product that would kick some games' asses, and for less than two 7800 GTs could do at the time (by 60 bucks or so).
I think the 'buy one now and be able to throw a second one in in a year for less' theory is starting be debunked. The card's prices hardly ever drop enough fast enough, and by the time you're ready for a second card, the new series is out with a single card that will out perform two of what you own now... and all without the pain of SLI issues.
I dunno, for me, I think from now on I'll do the best true single card solution available for the time, and leave all the Dual gpu/sli issues to the people who enjoy configuring their machines more than playing on them. Reply
Donkey2008 - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - link"hmmm by hooflung, 6 hours ago - If AMD is competitive at 1680x1050 and 1900x1200 for ~200+ dollars less would the conclusion have been less favorable and start to nitpick the sheer awkwardness of this card?"
I agree and if you look at the charts carefully (which most people don't), you'll see that the 3870x2 is dead on, if not better, then the GeForce 8800 Ultra (the card it is meant to compete against) in performance at every resolution. Yet the 3870x2 is also hundreds of dollars cheaper and runs at a very similar power threshold.
Although these tests are not about performance-per-dollar or who has the better value for high-level gaming, they are about who has the biggest schlong. I'll admit that.
Anyway, there is no way you can love and admire computer hardware as much as frequent visitors to Anandtech without realizing the sheer majesty of different companies raising the bar with truely groundbreaking products (I.E. Intel's Pentium CPU, the original Nvidia Geforce, AMD's Athlon 64, ATI's 9700 Pro).
Although a very impressive piece of work by Nvidia, this product is not one of them.
PS - I own and use a 8800 GTS in my home system. Reply
karioskasra - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkYes, they owned the market for a long time with it, but it's cost to build was high and it was an expensive part
it's = its Reply
AcydRaine - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkWay to test on a system that nobody has. For sure to show typical results..... Reply
Spacecomber - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkThe point of using skulltrail is that it allows both crossfire and sli to be tested on the same system. What better way to compare amd and nvidia multicard solutions?
The goal of the article is to see how the video card solutions stack up against each other, not to to determine what results you'll get in your particular system. Reply
Pemalite - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - link[quote]MD finally pulled out a wild card with the 3870 X2, and rather than putting their money into a large high cost chip, they combined two GPUs onto one board for their high end offering. Even though NVIDIA was first out of the gate with a single board dual GPU product (the 7950 GX2), we haven't seen a similar solution from their DX10 lineup until today.[quote]
I think that part of the article is a little bit... wrong.
AMD-ATI were the first to release a single card, Dual GPU solution in the form of the RAGE Fury MAXX. (Released in 1999). Reply
araczynski - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkunfortunately at that price point i don't care how miraculous it is.
looks like the 8800gtsG92 will be in my box next. unless i hear they plan on releasing an affordable 9800gt/gts? Reply
Malory - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkI had read elsewhere that even for a single card, they had to enable SLI support via the Nvidia console for this card to work.
Was that the case here? If so I asume that means that games which have no or little support for SLI wouldn't really gain much from this 'single' card. Reply
iceveiled - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkProbably the reason why a dual 8800 GT wasn't tested is because the mobo in the setup doesn't support SLi (it's an intel mobo)....
chizow - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkIts Skull Trail which does support SLI (they actually mention a GX2 SLI, ie Quad SLI, review upcoming). More likely NV put an embargo or warning on direct 8800GT/GTS comparisons so the spotlight didn't shift to artificial clock speed and driver discrepancies. After all, they do want to sell these abominations. ;) Reply
madgonad - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkYou clearly aren't paying attention to the market. A lot of people who cling to their PC gaming experience would also like to move their PC into the living room so that they can experience the big screen + 5/7.1 surround sound like their console brethren. The new Hybrid power and graphics solutions will allow a HTPC to have one of these Beasts as a partner for the onboard graphics. When watching movies or viewing the internet, this beast will be off and not making heat or noise. But once Crysis comes on, so does the discrete video card and it is off to the races. I have been waiting for the market to mature so that I can build a PC that games well, holds all my movies, and TiVos my shows - all in one box. All that I am waiting for is a Bitstream solution for the HD audio - which are due in Q2. Reply
JarredWalton - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkThat's true... but the HybridPower + SLI stuff isn't out yet, right? We need 790g or some such first. I also seem to recall NVIDIA saying that HybridPower would only work with *future* NVIDIA IGPs, not with current stuff. So until we have the necessary chipset, GPU, and drivers I for one would not even think of putting a 9800 GX2 into an HTPC. We also need better HDMI audio solutions.
Anyway, we're not writing off HTPC... we're just saying that more the vast majority of HTPC users this isn't going to be the ideal GPU. As such, we focused on getting the gaming testing done for this article, and we can talk about the video aspects in a future article. Then again, there's not much to say: this card handles H.264 offload as well as the other G92 solutions, which is good enough for most HTPC users. Still need better HDMI audio, though. Reply
casanova99 - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkWhile this is most likely a G92 variant, this isn't really akin to an SLI 8800GT setup, as the 8800GT has 112 shaders and 56 texture units. This card has 256 (128 * 2) shaders and 128 (64 * 2) texture units.
It seems to match more with a 8800GTS 512MB, but with an underclocked core and shaders, paired with faster memory. Reply
chizow - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkWhile this is true, it only perpetuates the performance myths Nvidia propagates with its misleading product differentiation. As has been shown time and time again, the differences in shaders/texture units with G92 have much less impact on performance compared to core clock and memory speeds. There's lots of relevant reviews with same-clocked 8800GT vs GTS performing nearly identically (FiringSquad has excellent comparisons), but you really need to look no further than the 9600GT to see how overstated specs like shaders are with current gen GPUs. If you dig enough you'll find the info you're looking for, like an 8800GT vs 8800GTS both at 650/1000 (shocker, 9800GTX is expected to weigh in at 675/1100). Problem is most reviews will take the artificial stock clock speeds of both and compare them, so 600/900 vs 650/1000 and then point to irrelevant core differences as the reason for the performance gap. Reply
hooflung - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkWell, I am really disapointed in this review. It seems almost geared towards being a marketing tool for Nvidia. So it might be geared towards HD resolutions, what about the others resolutions? If AMD is competitive at 1680x1050 and 1900x1200 for ~200+ dollars less would the conclusion have been less favorable and start to nitpick the sheer awkwardness of this card? Also, I find it disturbing that 9600GTs can do nearly what this thing can do, probably at less power ( who knows you didn't review power consumption like every other card revier ) and cost half as much.
To me, Nvidia is grasping at straws. Reply
Genx87 - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkEh? Grasping at straws with a solution that at times is clearly faster than the competition? This is a pretty solid single card offering if you ask me. Is it for everybody? Not at all. High end uber cards never are. But it definately took the crown back from AMD with authority.
hooflung - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkA single slot solution that isn't much better than a SLI 9600GT setup at those highest of high resolutions. Not for everyone is the understatement of the year. Yes I can see it is the single fastest on the block but at what cost? Another drop in the hat of a mislabeled 8 series product that is in a package about as illustrious as a cold sore.
This card is a road bump. The article is written based on a conclusion that Nvidia cannot afford, and we cannot afford, to have a next generation graphics processor right now. To me, it smacks of laziness. Furthermore, gone are the times of 600 dollar graphics cards I am afraid. I guess Nvidia employees get company gas cards so the don't pay 3.39 a gallon for gasoline.
How does this card flare for THE MAJORITY of users on 22" and 24" LCDs. I don't care about gaps at resolutions I need a 30" or HDTV to play on. Reply
Genx87 - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkSounds like you have a case of sour grapes. Dont get so hung up on AMD's failings. I know you guys wanted the x2 to trounce or remain competitive with this "bump". But you have to remember AMD has to undo years of mismanagement at the hands of ATI's management.
600 dollar cards keep showing up because they sell. Nobody is forcing you buy one. Reply
chizow - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkHeh ya he's posted similarly all over the video forums as well. Not sure what he's whining on about though, the GX2 is what everyone expected it TO BE based on already known and readily available 8800GT SLI benchmarks. Even though the core is closer to a G92 GTS with 128 SP, the core and shader clocks are closer to the stock 8800GT.
Pricing isn't far off either; its about 2x as much as TWO G92 GTS, slightly more than TWO G92 GT. But here's the kicker, you don't need SLI to get the benefits of SLI, just as you didn't need a CF board for CF with the 3870 X2. With an SLI board, you can use TWO of these cards for what amounts to QUAD SLI which isn't an option with any other NV solution and certainly much cheaper than the previous high-end multi-GPU solution, Tri-SLI with 8800 GTX/Ultra with a 680/780 board and a 1000W+ PSU.
For those with SLI capable boards, ofc its more economic to go with 2x 8800GT or 9600GT or even 8800GTS in SLI. For those who have ATI/Intel boards this offers the same thing the X2 did for NV board owners. For those with native SLI boards this offers the highest possible configuration for either camp but its going to cost you accordingly. Sure its not cheap now, but high-end never is. Expect prices to fall but if you buy now you're going to pay a premium, just as all early adopters do. Reply
Methusela - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkI don't see any power draw comparisons in the review. Isn't this important? What about heat and sound output? Reply
Genx87 - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkAccording to Hardocp the 9800X2 draws 196 watts at idle and 365 at load. The 3780x2 draws 151 idle and 381 at load. Reply
Griswold - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkWhich part of "For this test we used a wattage meter plugged in at the wall that measures total system power" did you not understand? No, these cards do not suck that much power, its the whole system that draws 365W and 381W at load. Reply
Methusela - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkDerek, I'm shocked you didn't include SLI 8800gt 512mb in the test. Isn't this essentially the same thing as what's inside the 9800gx2, but would cost a lot less? Reply
Deusfaux - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkNo, it'd make more sense to test with GTS 512 SLI.
Even more sense if they were underclocked to 600 mhz core and 1600 shader, and overclocked to 1100 mem, to match the gpus in this card. Reply
chizow - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkI agree an 8800GT SLI comparison would've made more sense, although there is the 9600GT SLI and also 8800 GT benches in there to compare with single card performance. Hopefully it was just an oversight on Derek's part and not something sinister like some NV enforced embargo. After all, the 9800GX2 is simply 2 G92 cores at stock GT speeds in SLI. But NV has tried hard to keep consumers in the dark about product differentiation and reviewers all seem willing to tow the line. Reply
DigitalFreak - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkOver at Hardocp, they compare the GX2 with 8800GT SLI and 8800GTS 512 SLI Reply
Genx87 - Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - linkWow at load the 3870x2 draws more power than this while delivering about 60-70% of the performance? Reply
Thatguy97 - Sunday, February 28, 2016 - linkCrazy how my gtx 950 shits all over 3 3870s and a 9800 gx2 in SLI Reply


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