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The Radeon HD 5970: Completing AMD's Takeover of the High End GPU Marketby Ryan Smith on 11/18/2009 12:00 AM EST
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- GPUs
114 Comments
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tcube - Monday, March 01, 2010 - linkWell my thought is that if amd would release this card on SOI/HK-MG in 32/28nm MCM config at 4 GHz it would leave nvidia wondering what it did to deserve it. And I wonder ... why the heck not? These cards would be business-grade-able and with a decent silicon they could ask for enormous prices. Plus they could probably stick the entire thing in dual config on one single card (possibly within the 300 W pcie v2 limit)... that would be a 40-50 Tflops card and with the new GDDR5(5ghz +) it should qualify as a damn monster. I would also expect a ~2-3k$ per such beast but I think its worth it. 50Tf/card, 6cards/server... 3Pflop/cabinet... hrm... well...it wouldn't be fair to compair it to general purpose supercomputers... buuut you could deffinatelly ray trace render avatar directly into HD4x 3d in realtime and probably make it look even better in the process... Reply
srikar115 - Sunday, December 06, 2009 - linki agree with this reveiw ,here a complete summary i found is also intresting
http://pcgamersera.com/2009/12/ati-radeon-5970-rev...">http://pcgamersera.com/2009/12/ati-radeon-5970-rev... Reply
srikar115 - Tuesday, April 20, 2010 - linkhttp://pcgamersera.com/ati-radeon-5970-review-suma... Reply
xpclient - Friday, November 27, 2009 - linkWhat no test to check video performance/DXVA? DirectX 11/WDDM 1.1 introduced DXVA HD (Accelerated HD/Blu-Ray playback). Reply
cmdrdredd - Sunday, November 22, 2009 - linkClearly nobody buying this card is going to put Crysis on "Gamer Quality" They'll put it on the max it can go. Why is AT still the only tech site in the whole world who is using "Gamer quality" with a card that has enough power to run a small town? Reply
AnnonymousCoward - Sunday, November 22, 2009 - linkWhy does the 5970 get <= 5850 CF performance, when it has 3200 Stream Processors vs 2880? Reply
araczynski - Saturday, November 21, 2009 - linki look forward to buying this, in a few years. Reply
JonnyDough - Friday, November 20, 2009 - linkwhy they didn't just call it the 5880. Reply
Paladin1211 - Friday, November 20, 2009 - linkRyan,
I'm a professional L4D player, and I know the Source engine gives out very high frame rate on today cards. The test become silly because there is no different at all from 60 to 300+ fps. So, it all comes down to min fps.
I suggest that you record a demo in map 5 Dead Air, with 4 Survivors defend with their back onto the limit line of the position of the first crashed plane. The main player for the record will be vomitted on by boomer, another throws pipe bomb near him, another throws molotov near him also. Full force of zombies (only 30), 2 hunters, 1 smoker, 1 tank attacking. (When a player become a tank, the boss he's controlling become a bot, and still attacking the survivors).
This is the heaviest practical scene in L4D, and it just makes sense for the benchmark. You dont really need 8 players to arrange the scene, I think using cheats is much easier.
I know it will take time to re-benchmark all of those cards for the new scene, but I think it wont be too much. Even if you cant do this, please reply me.
Thank you :)
SunSamurai - Friday, November 20, 2009 - linkYou're not professional FPS player if you think there is no difference between 60 and 300fps. Reply
Paladin1211 - Saturday, November 21, 2009 - linkTo be precise, anything above the monitor refresh rate is not going to be recognizable. Mine maxed out at 60Hz 1920x1200. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Thanks :) Reply
noquarter - Saturday, November 21, 2009 - linkIf you read AnandTech's 'Triple Buffering: Why We Love It' article, there is a very slight advantage at more than 60fps even though the display is only running at ~60Hz. If the GPU finishes rendering a frame immediately after the display refresh then that frame will be 16ms stale by the time the display shows it as it won't have the next one ready in time. If someone started coming around the corner while that frame is stale it'd be 32ms (stale frame then fresh frame) before the first indicator showed up. This is simplified as with v-sync off you'll just get torn frames but the idea is still there.
To me, it's not a big deal, but if you're looking at a person with quick reaction speed of 180ms, 32ms of waiting for frames to catch up could be significant I guess. If you increase the fps past 60 you're more likely to have a fresh frame rendered right before each display refresh. Reply
T2k - Friday, November 20, 2009 - linkSeriously: is he no more...? :D Reply
XeroG1 - Thursday, November 19, 2009 - linkOK, so seriously, did you really take a $600 video card and benchmark Crysis Warhead without turning it all the way up? The chart says "Gamer Quality + Enthusiast Shaders". I'm wondering if that's really how you guys benchmarked it, or if the chart is just off. But if not, the claim "Crysis hasn't quite fallen yet, but it's very close" seems a little odd, given that you still don't have all the settings turned all the way up.
Incidentally, I'm running a GeForce 9800 GTX (not plus) and a Core2Duo E8550, and I play Warhead at all settings enthusiast, no AA, at 1600x900. At those settings, it's playable for me. People constantly complain about performance on that title, but really if you just turn down the resolution, it scales pretty well and still looks better than anything else on the market IMHO. Reply
XeroG1 - Thursday, November 19, 2009 - linkEr, oops - that was supposed to say "E8500", not "E8550", since there is no 8550. Reply
mapesdhs - Thursday, November 19, 2009 - link
Carnildo writes:
> ... I was the administrator for a CAVE system. ...
Ditto! :D
> ... ported a number of 3D shooters to the platform. You haven't
> lived until you've seen a life-sized opponent come around the
> corner and start blasting away at you.
Indeed, Quake2 is amazing in a CAVE, especially with both the player
and the gun separately motion tracking - crouch behind a wall and be
able to stick your arm up to fire over the wall - awesome! But more
than anything as you say, it's the 3D effect which makes the experience.
As for surround-vision in general... Eyefinity? Ha! THIS is what
you want:
270 degree wraparound, 6-channel CAVE (Lockheed flight sim).
I have an SGI VHS demo of it somewhere, must dig it out sometime.
Oh, YouTube has some movies of people playing Quake2 in CAVE
systems. The only movie I have of me in the CAVE I ran was
a piece taken of my using COVISE visualisation software:
Naturally, filming a CAVE in this way merely shows a double-image.
Re people commenting on GPU power now exceeding the demands for
a single display...
What I've long wanted to see in games is proper modelling of
volumetric effects such as water, snow, ice, fire, mud, rain, etc.
Couldn't all this excess GPU power be channeled into ways of better
representing such things? It would be so cool to be able to have
genuinely new effects in games such as naturally flowing lava, or
an avalanche, or a flood, tidal wave, storm, landslide, etc. By this
I mean it being done so that how the substance behaves is governed
by the environment in a natural way (physics), not hard coded. So far,
anything like this is just simulated - objects involved are not
physically modelled and don't interact in any real way. Rain is
a good example - it never accumulates, flows, etc. Snow has weight,
flowing water can make things move, knock you over, etc.
One other thing occurs to me: perhaps we're approaching a point
where a single CPU is just not enough to handle what is now possible
at the top-end of gaming. To move them beyond just having ever higher
resolutions, maybe one CPU with more & more cores isn't going to
work that well. Could there ever be a market for high-end PC
gaming with 2-socket mbds? I do not mean XEON mbds as used for
servers though. Just thoughts...
gorgid - Thursday, November 19, 2009 - linkWITH THEIR CARDS ASUS PROVIDES THE SOFTWARE WHERE YOU CAN ADJUST CORE AND MEMORY VOLTAGES. YOU CAN ADJUST CORE VOLTAGE UP TO 1.4V
K1rkl4nd - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkAm I the only one waiting for TI to come out with a 3x3 grid of 1080p DLPs? You'd think if they can wedge ~2.2 million mini-mirrors on a chip, they should be able to scale that up to a native 5760x3240. Then they could buddy up with Dell and sell it as an Alienware premium package of display + computer capable of using it. Reply
skrewler2 - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkWhen can we see benchmarks of 2x 5970 in CF? Reply
Mr Perfect - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - link"This means that it's not just a bit quieter to sound meters, but it really comes across that way to human ears too"
Have you considered using the dBA filter rather then just raw dB? dBA is weighted to measure the tones that the human ear is most sensitive to, so noise-oriented sites like SPCR use dBA instead. Reply
prophet001 - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkThis looks like a sweet card. Certainly ATI is taking control of the market.
One question though...
What happened to the Hydra by Lucid Logix? I haven't heard anything about it in a while. Theoretically, the Hydra should take 2 ATI cards and make them perform better than Crossfire can.
Any news? Reply
tamalero - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkthere as been reviews of HYDRA already, what planet are you on?
GeorgeH - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - link1) No need to be a douche.
2) No Hydra 200 products have shipped, all current "reviews" have been done using Lucid's development hardware.
3) It appears that Hydra will not work well with dual GPU cards; it will see only one of the GPUs.
4) Early results show that Hydra offers roughly equal performance overall to Crossfire/SLI.
5) Link to one of the better articles I've read:
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=815">http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=815 Reply
driver01z - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkWow - so we have a card now that plays the latest Crysis at 2560*1600, 4XAA with details at a smooth playable FPS. IMHO I believe we've entered a new GPU generation. Or new compared to the capabilities I'm used to. Reply
rcpratt - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkIs there some way to set up a dual-monitor setup (2 x 1920x1080) to run in horizontal span mode (3840 x 1080), like you do with your three monitors, without an Eyefinity card? I'm currently running with a 4870 and haven't been able to find a way to do this. Reply
The0ne - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkI haven't tried but you should be able to do this easily, using catalyst. There's an option there to flip your screens for horizontal/vertical views and duplicate/extend your screens. That should do it for you.
I haven't use the flip feature but I use the extend all the time because I'm hooked up to my tv. Reply
rcpratt - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkI've spent hours trying to find a way to do it with Catalyst, and I can't find one. Right now it's on extend, which just leaves the secondary monitor as the desktop, with no taskbar on the bottom, and leaves me unable to play games at 3840x1080.
If anybody has an explanation or idea, I'd appreciate it. Reply
Spoelie - Thursday, November 19, 2009 - linkTo put it simple, no it's not supported. The only way you'll be able to use the second screen is with games that are explicitly coded to support dual screens (Supreme Commander?).
Your only other option is to use a Matrox multimon device (forgot the name) or an EyeFinity card of course. No NVIDIA card will allow this either, it's not a driver issue.
Either way, 2 screens wouldn't be a nice experience anyway, with the big bezel right in the middle, I can't imagine any type of game where that would work (no FPS, RTS, RPG, racing game, ...) Reply
rcpratt - Thursday, November 19, 2009 - linkThat's what I was afraid of. Thanks. And yeah, I wasn't planning on playing with 2 monitors, but I was considering getting a third. Oh well, probably better that I can't blow the cash :) Reply
The0ne - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkOn the same topic, does anyone know why my dual screen setup resets after PC restarts/shutdowns? In addition, I HAVE to select duplicate first, set it and then switch to extend. Selecting extend first doesn't enable it. Using current driver but this was there with previous versions as well.
I've Googled and read many forums but haven't encountered many users having this particular issue. This is consistent in XP, Vista and Win7 as far as I can remember.
4870 with Dell 30" and Samsumg 73" 1080P TV. Temperatures around 56C for video card. If you have any tips I appreciate them. Thanks in advance. Reply
hechacker1 - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkI once had that problem too. Even if my display went to sleep it would reset the monitor configuration.
I think disabling this helped:
I think eventually catalyst was updated to fix the display loosing connection during sleep (in my case). Reply
The0ne - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkI think we all seen enough data on this poorly programmed game to removed it from the test. There's really not point as even this card, 5970, can choke on it. Seriously, utter crap of programming. Reply
lifeblood - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkThree 30" monitors? Dude, I had to work hard just to afford a single 24" monitor. And because I'm salary I don't get overtime (although they do make me work it). If I get a second job flipping burgers at the local fast food joint I might be able to afford two more 24" displays. I bet Eyefinity would still look awesome on that.
And I was only kidding about you getting paid too much. The article was great. Now I am eagerly awaiting Nvidia's response. Reply
haplo602 - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linknice review.
but PLEASE MARK THE REVIEWED CARD to STAND OUT in the GRAPHS next time. going top down through the list and reading each caption to finaly find the card for EACH GRAPH is realy annoying. Reply
The0ne - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkAnand graphs are really annoying at times. I wish they were more consistent. Xbitlabs are easy and consistent which makes it a breeze for people like me who just wants to look at the specifics. Reply
Dante80 - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkI concur, the graphs can be a little confusing without some sort of color coding...
Here is a suggestion Ryan. Use light green and orange for Nvidia and AMD single cards, dark green and red for SLI and Xfire setups and lastly, blue for the card reviewed (you can differentiate with light and dark blue readings for the same card in Xfire or OCed readings). I think the graphs would look much better this way, and its a very easy to implement feature anyway...
cheers...^^ Reply
SJD - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkGreat and interesting article, but I'm confused about this Eyefinity situation again.
You state that your monitor didn't support mini-DP, just 'regular' DP, and go on to talk about buying an adapter. Yet, it appears (according to the wiki page at any rate) that mini-DP is electrically identical to regular DP, so only a mini-DP to regular DP cable would be needed. Indeed, other reviews of the 5970 show such an adapter cable included with the card...
What's the score, and why the comment that you need an *active* adapter to go from mini-dp to regular dp?
Simon Reply
strikeback03 - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkThe active adapter went to DVI, I was wondering the same about a simple mini-DP to DP cable Reply
Anand Lal Shimpi - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkI've clarified :)
Once you move to three displays AMD runs out of timing sources, the miniDP port must use an active adapter if you're using three displays.
Take care,
Anand Reply
mczak - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkThis is however incorrect. You need active adapters because rv870 only supports 2 clock sources for display outputs. However, DP (or mini-DP) don't need any such clock source because they use a fixed clock independent from display timings. Hence, if you want to connect more than 2 monitors using DVI/HDMI/VGA you need active DP-to-something adapter. But for DP outputs this isn't needed. And mini-DP is the same as DP anyway electrically. Reply
SJD - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkThanks Anand,
That kind of explains it, but I'm still confused about the whole thing. If your third monitor supported mini-DP then you wouldn't need an active adapter, right? Why is this when mini-DP and regular DP are the 'same' appart from the actual plug size. I thought the whole timing issue was only relevant when wanting a third 'DVI' (/HDMI) output from the card.
Simon Reply
CrystalBay - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkWTH is really up at TWSC ? Reply
Jacerie - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkAll the single game tests are great and all, but once I would love to see AT run a series of video card tests where multiple instances of games like EVE Online are running. While single instance tests are great for the FPS crowd, all us crazy high-end MMO players need some love too. Reply
Makaveli - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkJacerie the problem with benching MMO's and why you don't see more of them is all the other factors that come into play. You have to now deal with server latency, you also have no control of how many players are usually in the server at any given time when running benchmarks. There is just to many variables that would not make the benchmarks repeatable and valid for comparison purposes! Reply
mesiah - Thursday, November 19, 2009 - linkI think more what he is interested in is how well the card can render multiple instances of the game running at once. This could easily be done with a private server or even a demo written with the game engine. It would not be real world data, but it would give an idea of performance scaling when multiple instances of a game are running. Myself being an occasional "Dual boxer" I wouldn't mind seeing the data myself. Reply
Jacerie - Thursday, November 19, 2009 - linkThat's exactly what I was trying to get at. It's not uncommon for me to be running at lease two instances of EVE with an entire assortment of other apps in the background. My current 3870X2 does the job just fine, but with 7 out and DX11 around the corner I'd like to know how much money I'm going to need to stash away to keep the same level of usability I have now with the newer cards. Reply
Zool - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkThe so fast is only becouse 95% of the games are dx9 xbox ports. Still crysis is the most demanding game out there quite a time (it need to be added that it has a very lazy engine). In Age of Conan the diference in dx9 and dx10 is more than half(with plenty of those efects on screen even1/3) the fps drop. Those advanced shader efects that they are showing in demos are actualy much more demanding on the gpu than the dx9 shaders. Its just the thing they dont mention it. It will be same with dx11. A full dx11 game with all those fancy shaders will be on the level of crysis. Reply
crazzyeddie - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - link... after their first 40nm test chips came back as being less impressive than **there** 55nm and 65nm test chips were. Reply
silverblue - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkHehe, I saw that one too. Reply
frozentundra123456 - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkUnfortunately, since playing MW2, my question is: are there enough games that are sufficiently superior on the PC to justify the inital expense and power usage of this card? Maybe thats where eyefinity for AMD and PhysX for nVidia come in: they at least differentiate the PC experience from the console.
I hate to say it, but to me there just do not seem to be enough games optimized for the PC to justify the price and power usage of this card, that is unless one has money to burn. Reply
GourdFreeMan - Friday, November 20, 2009 - linkHaving not bought MW2, I can say conversely that the lack of differentiation between console and PC features hurts game sales. According to news reports, in the UK PC sales of MW2 account for less than 3% of all sales. This is neither representative of the PC share of the gaming market (which should be ~25% of all "next-gen" sales based on quarterly reports of revenue from publishers), nor the size of the install base of modern graphics cards capable of running MW2 at a decent frame rate (which should be close to the size of the entire console market based on JPR figures). Admittedly the UK has a proportionately larger console share than the US or Germany, but I can't image MW2 sales of the PC version are much better globally.
I am sure executives will be eager to blame piracy for the lack of PC sales, but their target market knows better... Reply
cmdrdredd - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - link[quote]Unfortunately, since playing MW2, my question is: are there enough games that are sufficiently superior on the PC to justify the inital expense and power usage of this card? Maybe thats where eyefinity for AMD and PhysX for nVidia come in: they at least differentiate the PC experience from the console.
I hate to say it, but to me there just do not seem to be enough games optimized for the PC to justify the price and power usage of this card, that is unless one has money to burn.[/quote]
Yes this is exactly my thoughts. They can tout DX11, fancy schmancy eyefinity, physx, everything except free lunch and it doesn't change the fact that the lineup for PC gaming is bland at best. It sucks, I love gaming on PC but it's pretty much a dead end at this time. No thanks to every 12 year old who curses at you on XBox Live.
The0ne - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkMy main reason to want this card would be to drive my 30" LCDs. I have two Dell's already and will get another one early next year. I don't actually play games much but I like having the desktop space for my work.
-VM's at higher resolution
-more open windows without switching too much
-watch movie(s) while working
-bigger font size but maintaining the aspect ratio of programs :)
Currently have my main on one 30" and to my 73" TV. TV is only 1080P so space is a bit limited. Plus working on the TV sucks big time :/ Reply
shaolin95 - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkI am glad ATI is able to keep competing as that helps keep prices at a "decent" level.
Still, for all of you so amazed by eyefinity, do yourselves a favor and try 3D vision with a big screen DLP then you will laugh at what you thought was cool and "3D" before.
You can have 100 monitors but it is still just a flat world....time to join REAL 3D gaming guys! Reply
Carnildo - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkBack in college, I was the administrator for a CAVE system. It's a cube ten feet on a side, with displays on all surfaces. Combine that with head tracking, hand tracking, shutter glasses, and surround sound, and you've got a fully immersive 3D environment.
It's designed for 3D visualization of large datasets, but people have ported a number of 3D shooters to the platform. You haven't lived until you've seen a life-sized opponent come around the corner and start blasting away at you. Reply
7Enigma - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkBut Ryan, I feel you might need to edit a couple of your comparison comments between the 295 and this new card. Based on the comments in a several previous articles quite a few readers do not look at (or understand) the charts and instead rely on the commentary below the charts. Here's some examples:
"Meanwhile the GTX 295 sees the first of many falls here. It falls behind the 5970 by 30%-40%. The 5870 gave it a run for its money, so this is no surprise."
This one for Stalker is clear and concise. I'd recommend you repeat this format for the rest of the games.
"As for the GTX 295, the lead is only 20%. This is one of the better scenarios for the GTX 295."
This comment was for Battleforge and IMO is confusing. To someone not reading the chart it could be viewed as saying the 295 has a 20% advantage. Again I'd stick with your Stalker comment.
"HAWX hasn't yet reached a CPU ceiling, but it still gets incredibly high numbers. Overclocking the card gets 14% more, and the GTX 295 performance advantage is 26%."
Again, this could be seen as the 295 being 26% faster.
"Meanwhile overclocking the 5970 is good for another 9%, and the GTX 295 gap is 37%."
This one is less confusing as it doesn't mention an advantage but should just mention 37% slower.
Finally I think you made a typo in the conclusion where you said this:
"Overclock your 5970 to 5870 speeds if you can bear the extra power/heat/noise, but don't expect 5970CF results."
I think you meant 5870CF results...
Overall, though, the article is really interesting as we've finally hit a performance bottleneck that is not so easily overcome (due to power draw and ATX specifications). I'm very pleased, however, that you mention first in the comments that this truly is a card meant for multi-monitor setups only, and even then, may be bottlenecked by design. The 5870 single card setup is almost overkill for a single display, and even then most people are not gaming on >24" monitors.
I've said it for the past 2 generations of cards but we've pretty much maxed out the need for faster cards (for GAMING purposes). Unless we start getting some super-hi res goggles that are reasonably priced, there just isn't much further to go due to display limitations. I mean honestly are those slightly fuzzy shadows worth the crazy perforamnce hit on a FPS? I honestly am having a VERY difficult time seeing a difference in the first set of pictures of the soldier's helmet. The pictures are taken slightly off angle from each other and even then I don't see what the arrow is pointing at. And if I can't see a significant difference in a STILL shot, how the heck am I to see a difference in-game!?
OK enough rant, thanks for the review. :) Reply
Anand Lal Shimpi - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkThanks for the edits, I've made some corrections for Ryan that will hopefully make the statements more clear.
I agree that the need for a faster GPU on the desktop is definitely minimized today. However I do believe in the "if you build it, they will come" philosophy. At some point, the amount of power you can get in a single GPU will be great enough that someone has to take advantage of it. Although we may need more of a paradigm shift to really bring about that sort of change. I wonder if Larrabee's programming model is all we'll need or if there's more necessary...
Take care,
Anand Reply
7Enigma - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkThank you for the edits and the reply Anand.
One of the main things I'd like to see GPU drivers implement is an artificial framerate cap option. These >100fps results in several of the tests at insane resolutions are not only pointless, but add unneccesary heat and stress to the system. Drop back down to normal resolutions that >90% of people have and it becomes even more wasteful to render 150fps.
I always enable V-sync in my games for my LCD (75Hz), but I don't know if this is actually throttling the gpu to not render greater than 75fps. My hunch is in the background it's rendering to its max but only showing on the screen the Hz limitation. Reply
Zool - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkI tryed out full screen furmark with vsync on and off (in 640*480) and the diference was 7 degre celsius. I have a custom cooler on the 4850 and a 20cm side fan on the case so thats quite lot. Reply
7Enigma - Thursday, November 19, 2009 - linkThanks for the reply Zool, I was hoping that was the case. So it seems like if I ensure vsync is on I'm at least limiting the gpu to only displaying the refresh rate of the LCD. Awesome! Reply
Zool - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkSo yes. The answer is that the gpu is doing less work with vsync than without it.(dam still no edit button) Reply
Yojimbo - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkThe plural for a casting/shaping instrument "die" is "dies" not "dice." Reply
Lennie - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkI am going to post this again here. Thought it may not get noticed since I posted it first as a reply in previous pages. Hope I wont hurt anyones feelings :)
I thought everyone knew about Furmark and ATi by now. It used to be like this on 4870 series too.
It went like this, at first there were few reports of 4870(X2) cards dying when running Furmak. Further investigation showed that it was indeed Furmark causing VRM's to heat up to insane levels and eventually killing them. Word reached ATi from that point on ATi intentionally throttles their card when detecting Furmark to prevent the damage.
Yeah in fact the amount of heat load Furmak puts on VRMs is unrealistic and no game is able to heat up the VRMs to the level Furmark does. OCCT used the same method (or maybe even integrated Furmark) to test for stability (in their own opinion ofc)
So beware about Furmark and OCCT if you have HD4K or 5K.
The term "Hardware Virus" is rightfully applicable to Furmark when it comes to HD4K (and 5K perhaps) Reply
Lennie - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkI want to add that VRM overheating is quite tricky, since normally people only check on GPU temps.
When you run Furmark you would notice that GPU temps are in acceptable range while at the same time your VRM's are cooking without you knowing about it.
So remember to always check your VRM temps when running graphics stability tests like Furmark or OCCT's graphics test specially when you're overclocking the card.
I use Riva or Everest to check on VRM temps. Reply
Rajinder Gill - Thursday, November 19, 2009 - linkThe temp reading that is displayed by Everest is an averaged figure. The junction temp of the slaves is the critical issue. Even though the average temp may appear to be within bounds, there is the possibility that one of the slaves may be running abnormally. Volterra keep their specifications under NDA. What I do know is that the general configuration if one slave shuts down is that the remaining slaves take the load. The result is not usually pretty. I think ATI may have implemented throttling to prevent the kind of burnouts users experienced running OCCT GPU tests on the last gen.
Personally, I think the 3 phase Volterra solution used on the 5970's is right on the hilt for current draw (circa 135 amps per GPU). I'd wait for non reference solutions with enhanced power delivery if you plan on overclocking this card long term or plan to stress it heavily when OC'd).
Rajinder Gill - Thursday, November 19, 2009 - linkI should add that I'm assuming ATI used the biggest Volterra slaves rated at 45 amps each and not the 35/40 amp varieties. Reply
thebeastie - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkAny one that has a clue is buying a proper case like the Storm Sniper Black Edition and fitting this with heaps of space to spare.
Also I recommend a case with positive or at least neutral are flow.
The storm sniper has a dust filter on its 20cm side fan to push more air in and aid in the GPU fans air flow that will go out the back of the cards vent holes at the DVI ports.
at80eighty - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkPlan on getting one of these in another 7-8 months - The way I see it, despite being bleeding edge - ATI has a deadlock winner in this card and will produce only limited quantities so I'm kind of 'worried' about the availability & price down the line Reply
Silverforce11 - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkWait til the end of December. Apparently the yeilds of cyrpress are going to be improved a lot then, so the prices will either remain the same or be lower a bit.
However, since nV has nothing real for a long time, i dont foresee a drop in prices on ATI parts. Given the estimates, NV will have fermi out in april 2010, but not in significant quantities for a while after that. Im gonna grab a 5970 around xmas. :) Reply
at80eighty - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkDude I hate you already :p I just bought a 5750 - I dont have the necessary components that would not bottleneck the 5970, so I'm going to have to wait a while. plus the whole 3 new monitors thing for the Eyefinity Reply
palladium - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkSince AMD is binning their chips to get the 5970 within spec, I suppose it wouldn't make sense to make a 5950 SKU since a 5850 is simply a re-harvested 5870 (which failed the initial binning process), and 2x5850 would be out of the ATX spec anyway.
Anyway, a great card for those who can afford it, and have the proper case and PSU to handle it. Reply
Paladin1211 - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkWith 512 SP, 6.67% more than a GTX 295, I dont see Fermi has any chance of beating the 5970. nVidia will need a dual Fermi to dethrone the 5970, and thats not happening until Q3 or Q4 2010.
nVidia has targeted a wrong, niche market rather than gamers. Sooner or later monitors without bezel will come out, and Eyefinity makes much more sense. Its really funny that the R770s aka HD 4870s are in 1 out of 5 fastest supercomputers and not Tesla.
They have taken a long, deep sleep after the 8800GTX and now they're paying for it.
cmdrdredd - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkUnfortunately, PC gaming is almost dead. Look at Call of Duty's release. Look at Dragon Age which is also available on consoles. Sure the PC version might look a bit better, but when you spend as much on a video card as someone does on an entire system that can download movies, demos, act as a media box, and play Blu-Rays...you get the point. Reply
Lurker0 - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkUnfortunately, PC gaming has been declared "nearly dead" for decades. It hasn't died, and as much as console fanboys will rage on hearing this, it isn't going to either.
PC gaming is a niche industry, it always has been and always will be. Yes, console games do tend to be more profitable, which means that most games will be developed for consoles first and then ported to the PC. Doesn't mean there will never be games developed for the PC first(or even exclusivly), or that there's no profit to be had in PC games.
Yes, it can be cheaper to get a console than a mid-level gaming PC, just like it can be cheaper to just buy some econobox off the lot than to buy or build your own hot rod. Sure, one market is much larger and more profitable than the other, but there's still money to be made off of PC games and gearheads alike, and so long as that's true neither will be going away. Reply
DominionSeraph - Thursday, November 19, 2009 - linkPC gaming is no longer an isolated economy, though. That changes things. With most games being written with consoles in mind, there isn't the broad-based software push for hardware advance that there was at the dawn of 3d acceleration.
I could give you dozens of great reasons to have upgraded from a NV4 to a NV15 back in the day, but the upgrade from a G80 to 5970 today? ~$800 when you factor in the PSU, and for what? Where's the must-have game that needs it? TNT to Geforce 2 was two years -- it's now been 3 since the release of the 8800, and there's been no equivalent to a Half Life, Quake 2, Deus Ex, Homeworld, Warcraft III, or WoW. Reply
GourdFreeMan - Thursday, November 19, 2009 - linkUnfortunately, this is precisely the problem. When looking at AAA (large budget) games, six years ago PC game sales were predominantly PC exclusives, with some well known console ports (e.g. Halo, Morrowind). Twelve years ago PC game sales were almost entirely exclusives. Today the console ports are approaching the majority of high profile PC titles.
Being multiplatform isn't necessarily a detriment for a console game. After all, having a larger budget allows more money to be spent on art and polishing the code to get the best performance on console hardware. In most cases, however, the PC version of a multiplatform title is almost always an afterthought. Little to no effort is spent redesigning the user interface and rebalancing game play because of the different controls. Shaders are almost never rewritten to take advantage of effects that could only be accomplished with the power of the graphic cards in modern PCs when porting. At most we seem to get better textures at somewhat higher resolutions.
The biggest problem with multiplatform development, however, is that multiplatform games are almost always aimed at the lowest common denominator in terms of both technology and content. All this does is produce the same game over and over again -- the clichéd rail shooter in a narrow environment with a macho/reluctant superhuman protagonist thrown against hordes of respawning mooks.
Based on the quarterly reports of sales revenue from the major publishers (EA, Activision and Ubisoft), PC games sales are comparable to PS3 game sales. The PS3, however, has several more exclusives because Sony owns several games studios and forces them to release exclusives. AMD and nVIDIA do not, much to PC gaming's detriment. Reply
mschira - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkHehe 5970CF to power three screens, now that sounds like a killer setup.
Besides that one's burning 600+ watts for the graphic. What's the CPU supposed to live on? The BIOS-Battery?
M. Reply
monomer - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkWouldn't it be possible to run six screens using a 5970 CF setup, or are there other limitations I'm unaware of? Reply
Fleeb - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - link600W for the whole setup. :S Reply
maximusursus - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkIt really seems weird...:( I've seen some reviews that had way better overclocking than the standard 5870 clocks and their tests seem to be ok without any "throttling" problems.
For example:
Techspot: 900/1250
HotHardware: 860/1220
Tom's Hardware: 900/1300
HardOCP: 900/1350 (!)
Guru3D: 900/1200
HardwareZone however had a similar problem with you guys, could it really be the PSU? Reply
Ryan Smith - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkIt's possible, but the 850TX is a very well regarded unit. If it can't run a 5970 overclocked, then I surmise that a lot of buyers are going to run in to the same problem. I don't have another comparable power supply on hand, so this isn't something I can test with my card.
Anand has a 1K unit, and of course you know how his turned out.
To be frank, we likely would have never noticed the throttling issue if it wasn't for the Distributed.net client. It's only after realizing that it was underperforming by about 10-20% that I decided to watch the Overdrive pane and saw it bouncing around. These guys could be throttling too, and just not realize it. Reply
Silverforce11 - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkSeems iffy then since most reviews put it at 900 core and 5ghz + on the ram, with only a modest overvolt to 1.16. I would think ATI wouldnt bother putting in 3 high quality VRM and japanese capacitors if they didnt test it thoroughly at the specs they wanted it to OC at.
My old PSU is the bigger bro of this guy being the 750 ver.
And had issues with the 4870x2. Got a better "single rail" PSU and it ran fine n OC well. Reply
Silverforce11 - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkATI went all out with building these 5970, the components are top notch. The chips are the best of the bunch. I'm surprised they did this, as they are essentially selling you 2x 5870 performance (IF your PSU is good) at $599 when 2x 5870 CF would cost $800. They have no competitor in the top, why do they not price this card higher or why even bother putting in quality parts to almost guarantee 5870 clocks?
I believe its ATI's last nail on the nV coffin and they hammered it really hard. Reply
ET - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkToo much discussion about adapters for the mini-displayport. The 27" iMac has such an input port and a resolution of 2560 x 1440, and it seems a sin to not test them together. (Not that I'm blaming Anandtech or anything, since I'm sure it's not that easy to get the iMac for testing.) Reply
Taft12 - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkWhy would they bother using a computer with attached monitor and instead use the larger, higher-res and CHEAPER Dell 3008WFP? Reply
Raqia - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkLook at all the finger print smudges on the nice card! I've started to notice the hand models that corporations use to hold their products. The hands holding the ipods on the apple site? Flawless, perfect nails and cuticles. Same w/ the fingers grasping the Magny Cours chip. Reply
NullSubroutine - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkHilbert @ Guru3d got the overclocking working with 900Mhz core speed (though it reached 90c).
I was impressed with some of the crossfire benchmarks actually showing improvement. If Eyeinfinity works with 5970 does it work with the card in crossfire? Reply
Ryan Smith - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkBear in mind that it also took him 1.3v to get there; the AMD tool doesn't go that high. With my card, I strongly suspect the issue is the VRMs, so more voltage wouldn't help.
And I'm still trying to get an answer to the Eyefinity + 5970CF question. The boys and girls at AMD went home for the night before we realized we didn't have an answer to that. Reply
Lennie - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkI thought everyone knew about Furmark and ATi by now. It used to be like this on 4870 series too.
It went like this, at first there were few reports of 4870(X2) cards dying when running Furmak. Further investigation showed that it was indeed Furmark causing VRM's to heat up to insane levels and eventually killing them. Word reached ATi from that point on ATi intentionally throttles their card when detecting Furmark to prevent the damage.
Yeah in fact the amount of heat load Furmak puts on VRMs is unrealistic and no game is able to heat up the VRMs to the level Furmark does. OCCT used the same method (or maybe even integrated Furmark) to test for stability (in their own opinion ofc)
So beware about Furmark and OCCT if you have HD4K or 5K.
The term "Hardware Virus" is rightfully applicable to Furmark when it comes to HD4K (and 5K perhaps) Reply
strikeback03 - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkThe article stated that they encountered throttling in real games, not Furmark. Reply
Lennie - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkIf so, then one could suspect it's the same issue with games due to VRMs of this particular card getting heated up and throttling the card. Perhaps not enough contact between VRM and HSF or a complete lack of TIM on VRM by accident. I would have reseated the HSF if I owned that card. Reply
Rajinder Gill - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkI suspect it is VRM/heat related. The 'biggest' slaves Volterra currently supply are rated at 45 amps each afaik. Assuming ATI used the 45 amp slaves (which they must have), you've got around 135 amps on tap. Do the math for OCP or any related throttling effects kicking in. Essentially, 1.10VGPU puts you at 150w per GPU before things either shut down or need to be throttled (depends on how it's implemented as it nears peak). Any which way you look at it, ATI have used a high end VRM solution, but 4 slaves per GPU would have given a bit more leeway on some cards. I wonder what the variance is in terms of leakage from card to card as well. Seeing as there's not much current overhead in the VRM (or at least there does not appear to be), a small change in leakage would be enough to stop some cards from doing too much in terms of overclocking on the stock cooler.
Silverforce11 - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkIt could be your PSU, some "single rail" PSU arent in fact using a single rail but several rails with a max limit on AMPs. Its deceptive.
Guru3D uses 1200W PSU and manages 900 core, which is typically what a 5870 OC to on air. Essentially the chips are higher quality cypress, maybe you should retry it again with a different PSU then conclusions can be drawn. Reply
Bolas - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkYep, there is certainly a market for 5970CF. Can't wait! Reply
tajmahal - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkBig deal, another paper launch where only a tiny handful of people will be able to get one. Reply
LedHed - Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - linkMy question is why do the OC the 5970 but not the 295...
We all know the 295 is memory bottlenecked at resolutions at/over 2560x1600
But considering the GTX 295 is down below $450 and no one can find these cards in stock with a god awful price of $600 ($100 more than 295 at launch). Reply
mschira - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linknewegg list 5 different models, they come and go quite fast.
I managed to get one of them in my shopping card.
All it would need now is pay. (which I don't want to...).
So yea they are not exactly easy to get, but far from impossible.
So not a paper launch.
Be real, it's day two after the launch, and you CAN get them. That's not bad at all.
M. Reply
MrPickins - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkAt the moment, Newegg shows two different 5970's in stock. A HIS and a Powercolor. Reply
tajmahal - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkListed, but not available. I guess newegg sold both of the ones they had available, and the 5850 and 5870 ?......... not available either. Reply
Silverforce11 - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkPlenty of 5870s around at retails and etailers, what do you mean by "another paper launch"?
kilkennycat - Thursday, November 19, 2009 - linkEr, have you noticed the "Not in Stock" or "Pre-order" when you have gone to order one. You might get a 5850, but try finding a 5870 without having to psy a jacked-up premium over MSRP. Best of luck. Reply
mrdaddyman - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkSince the 5870 seems to be in such great supply, I would like for someone to post a link where I can actually buy one of these. I have been trying to buy one for a month and haven't been able to find one. Reply
rennya - Thursday, November 19, 2009 - linkDoes it has to be online?
Here, I have many options for 58xx and 57xx models in retail stores. Which is more applicable for me because Newegg doesn't ship to my place.
Well, if you insist of finding online links, plenty of them at http://flaturl.com/eb0">http://flaturl.com/eb0 or http://flaturl.com/YmU">http://flaturl.com/YmU or http://flaturl.com/pAU">http://flaturl.com/pAU or http://flaturl.com/q15">http://flaturl.com/q15 or http://flaturl.com/5av">http://flaturl.com/5av and many more.
These are just some of the sellers in my place who sells those so-called mythical ATI cards online (doesn't include the gazillions others sold in retail). You may want to argue that they won't ship to you in United States, but then again the likes of NewEgg doesn't ship here too.
If you are desperate enough, I can help you obtain one of those cards. Want to take the offer? Reply
Alexstarfire - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkAnd this is the 5970 that we are talking about. Not the same thing. Reply
MamiyaOtaru - Thursday, November 19, 2009 - linkby saying "another paper launch" you were implying that the previous launches were paper. So you were talking about the 5870. As they are and have been available, they were not paper launches. So even if the 5970 is a paper launch (it isn't) you can't very well call it another one Reply
tajmahal - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkNo link yet for the 5850 or the 5870? That's a surprise. Reply
lloyd dd - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkwould using 3 monitors in portrait orientation sort out the aspect ratio in eyefinity? Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkIt would be closer. 4800x2560 would end up at a 1.875 AR, compared to 1.78 for 16:9 and 1.6 for 16:10. I think that 16:9 content stretched to fill 4800x2560 should look fine (about the same as 16:10 stretched to fill a 16:9 monitor).
Of course, the more difficult question is how to put three 30" LCDs into portrait mode. You would need a different base stand -- none of the 30" LCDs I've seen allow you to rotate the display into portrait mode, probably because the LCDs are two feet wide. Reply
yyrkoon - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkHey Jarred,
Why not be inventive, and make a stand to hold 3 x 30" LCDs ? I do not mean you specifically of course, but whomever would want to have one. It really is not that difficult . . . just a little planning, and the ability to work with steel ( heavy ) or quality aluminum. Now if someone did not have the skills to make brackets etc, they could even draw something up, give it to a local fabricator, and be on their merry way . . .
Personally, I like the first option mainly because I enjoy working with materials as such ( metals, wood, plastics, etc ). Not to mention the fact that it can cost far less doing it yourself. Reply
JarredWalton - Thursday, November 19, 2009 - linkI understand it's entirely possible. My point is merely that it's yet another expense. I don't think 3x30" with EyeFinity is going to be anything but a very, *VERY* niche product. LOL.
5970 = $600
3 x 30" = $3000 (minimum)
3 x Stands = $120 to $600
So besides having the money, you need the space (and possibly time). I'd say $4000+ just for the GPU and LCDs is where the costs start, and naturally you would want a killer system (i7-920 with overclocking, or i7-975). But hey, you want the best of the best, there you have it. Until the next big thing comes along.
Speaking of which, what about 30" LCDs with 120Hz and 3D Vision? LOL.... (No, I'm not saying that's out or coming soon, but it could be.) Reply
Ben90 - Thursday, November 19, 2009 - linkI doubt 30" @ 120 will be here soon. 1920x1200 @ 120fps is the theoretical limit of a dual link DVI. 2560x1600 @ 120 would require a quad link DVI, or a twin HDMI, or a twin DP connection. And it would still have to be a TN panel as of 2009, because IPS just isnt fast enough for 120 yet Reply
tdktank59 - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkget 3 independent stands.
Could you imagine 90" of screen! that would just be sick!
anyways need to stop drooling lol...
Price is just ridiculous...
Figure 1.2k for each monitor
1200 for the cards
thats $4800 lol Reply
bob4432 - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkbuild your own stand - look at www.8020.net for everything you would need for such a project :) Reply
Visual - Wednesday, November 18, 2009 - linkfor 90" screen you would need 3x3=9 screens.
3 30" screens in portrait mode give you about a 54 inch diagonal Reply


text:
Roundup: Rogers no-hits Bulldogs
Published: Friday, April 5, 2013 at 6:01 a.m.
Last Modified: Saturday, April 6, 2013 at 12:27 a.m.
Junior Stephanie Tofft hit a grand slam home run and senior Kelsey Horton hit a three-run shot to support the no-hit pitching of junior Hannah Rogers in leading No. 3 Florida to a 9-1 sixth-inning softball win over Mississippi State on Friday at Katie Seashole Pressly Stadium.
Rogers hurled her first career no-hitter, striking out seven and allowing four walks, as the Gators (37-3, 11-2 SEC) won their 15th consecutive contest against the visiting Bulldogs (23-13, 2-8 SEC) to open the three-game conference series.
Rogers improved to 22-2 with the 11th no-no in program history, the last since Gator All-American Stacey Nelson no-hit Arkansas April 26, 2009. The righty has allowed just three earned runs in her last 38.0 innings pitched in SEC play and has given up just five earned runs in her last 53 innings.
The Gators drew 11 walks and used four hit-by-pitches – including sophomore Briana Little's single-season record-tying 15th – to create base runners. UF has 52 hit-by-pitches this season, seven shy of the school-record 59 in 2006.
Horton and Tofft each drove in four runs.
The two teams play again at 3 p.m. today and noon Sunday.
Women's tennis: Second-ranked Florida began its final home weekend of the regular season with a 7-0 sweep against Ole Miss at Linder Stadium at the Ring Tennis Complex.
The win was the Gator's ninth consecutive as well as their 118th straight win at home, their 123rd regular-season win at home and their sixth in a row against the Rebels (10-10, 4-6 SEC).
Florida (16-2, 9-1 SEC) won the doubles point for the 11th time this year and then used singles victories from Alexandra Cercone, Sofie Oyen, Caroline Hitimana, Lauren Embree, Brianna Morgan and Olivia Janowicz to capture the sweep.
"I thought we were fantastic in doubles and solid in singles," UF coach Roland Thornqvist said. "It was a really good day for us."
The Gators next play host to Mississippi State on Sunday beginning at 10 a.m. It is the first half of a Florida tennis double-header, as the men's team entertains Mississippi State 1:30 p.m.
Sunday's women's match is the Gators' regular-season home finale and the team will honor seniors Lauren Embree and Caroline Hitimana in a pre-match ceremony scheduled to begin at 9:45 a.m.
Men's tennis: Florida upset No. 7 Ole Miss, 4-1, in Oxford to improve to 11-8 overall and 5-4 in the SEC.
Florida took advantage early against Ole Miss (13-6, 6-4 SEC), storming out in doubles to take a 1-0 lead. Florent Diep and Gordon Watson paired up for the first time this season and beat the Rebels' William Kallberg and Zach Wilder, 8-3, at No. 3 doubles. Stephane Piro and Bob van Overbeek then clinched the doubles point with an 8-4 win against No. 67 Stefan Lindmark and Johan Backstrom.
Getting singles wins for UF were Florent Diep at No. 2, Bob van Overbeek at No. 3 and Gordon Watson at No. 6.
Lacrosse: No. 3 Florida returns to the friendly confines of Donald R. Dizney Stadium to host No. 17 Johns Hopkins starting at noon today.
Florida (13-1, 1-1 ALC) holds a 16-game home win streak and is 7-0 at home this season.
Reader comments posted to this article may be published in our print edition. All rights reserved. This copyrighted material may not be re-published without permission. Links are encouraged.

subset: commoncrawl


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AMD Reiterates 2013 GPU Plans: Sea Islands & Beyondby Ryan Smith on 2/15/2013 4:26 PM EST
57 Comments
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Hubb1e - Friday, February 15, 2013 - linkI'm ok with them slowing down the pace of new GPUs. I typically waited two generations before upgrading anyways, so as long as the performance increase of the next high end part is high, I'll be in the mood to upgrade again after only one generation so it doesn't' really impact me much. Plus, my old part will probably be worth more on the used market too. Reply
HanakoIkezawa - Friday, February 15, 2013 - linkI'm fine with this as well. I just hope they have a large generational jump if they are taking two years to do it. Reply
Ryan Smith - Friday, February 15, 2013 - linkAny generational jumps are ultimately dictated by TSMC, since as it stands high-end desktop GPUs are power-limited. The greater the power reduction from 20nm, the more they can crank things up. Reply
chizow - Friday, February 15, 2013 - linkVery true, but as we've seen with Intel and Nvidia, greater transistor and TDP budget from improved process nodes does not mean they will release a maxed out part that significantly outperforms the previous generation.
Nvidia held BigK back for whatever reasons.
Intel is using it's increased transistor budget on GPU rather than CPU.
I'm generally OK with the slowed pace of product launches, I just hope people get wise to the fact they don't have to upgrade if the increase in performance doesn't warrant the price tag. Reply
ET - Tuesday, February 19, 2013 - linkI think that people are generally wise to this, and that part of the reason to hold off is that all a new generation would do at this point is to drive prices down, making even lower end parts enough for the majority of situations. It probably makes some sense to wait until the new consoles are released, and hope that games for them might drive an upgrade cycle on the PC. Reply
thetuna - Friday, February 15, 2013 - linkI also subscribe to the two generation cycle, too bad this was supposed to be my upgrade year :( Reply
MrSpadge - Saturday, February 16, 2013 - linkWell, the current cards are pretty nice.. depending on what you currently own. And you can plug in a new GPU anytime, no need to adjust it with other updates. Reply
JonnyDough - Sunday, February 17, 2013 - linkAgreed. Prices drop, and many of us now have SLI/Crossfire capable motherboards. SLI and Crossfire both scale pretty well today so there isn't a lot of reason not to throw a 2nd card in. Reply
CloudFire - Saturday, February 16, 2013 - linkSame here, I wanted the 8xxx to come out so I can sell my 6870 xfire. It's running great for me but I like to run my games on max settings and the 1gb ram is showing it's age in titles with heavy AA like BF3. I prefer a single gpu from now. Reply
Alexvrb - Sunday, February 17, 2013 - linkThere are some nice looking factory overclocked 7970s starting at $400-430. Or you could wait it out. Reply
redjamester - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkme too. 2 6870's oc'd are startin to show their age. 1 GB 256 bit starting to age. maybe the new 780?? wait?? Reply
Scott586 - Thursday, February 21, 2013 - linkAgreed, maybe if they took a little more time between releases they could develop better products for less money, Win, Win. Reply
SlyNine - Friday, February 15, 2013 - linkSeveral factors really.
We need the software to catch up.
We need PC gaming to become alittle (not much) more mainstream so we can get dev support.
Slower product cycles are more encouraging to developers and consumers.
We don't need 2 high end GPU's every year when software doesn't effectively use it. Lets face it, the only way to bring a current high end GPU to its knee's is by forcing graphic effects that have a minimal visual effect. Surely they could do something more effective with that rendering time; and they would if it wasn't for games are console ports and its quick and easy to add said effects.
If we can unify XBMC (hulu, youtube, netflix) and Steam (games) with an easy to use interface for the TV we are well on our way. Also with Linux support from both; well I'm pretty excited and nervous for the prospects.
I just hope steam does something for multi users, no one is going buy 4 copies of a game for use on the TV. They need multiple users per steam account if they want it to succeed. Reply
Alexvrb - Sunday, February 17, 2013 - linkSteam's console-esque hardware isn't going to improve the situation for PC gaming. If anything it will steal away PC gamers who aren't very dedicated to the PC, and only used it to play PC-exclusive titles because there's no alternative. How can PC gaming become mainstream when you're driving users AWAY from a full PC and into a Steam Box, with fixed hardware specs that are well below a high end PC?
If the Steam Box really takes off and they sell several million units, it will have the same effect on software development as any other mainstream console. Developers will target the big market, and the full-on PC version will seem hamstrung in a couple of years. The mainstream hardware is at the core of the issue you're talking about, and Steam Box is little different from the MS/Sony units in this regard.
The reality is that the Steam Box is just a way for Gabe to make sure he gets a cut of the profit from living room gaming too. He's pissed at MS for getting a cut from the Windows store, but Valve is no better. They're a for-profit company too. Reply
SlyNine - Monday, February 18, 2013 - linkI don't think you have a clue about steambox, since no one does. Not sure why you think steambox would have the same effect as console gaming. You're kinda just making the facts up honestly. You say the steambox is fixed spec'ed, do you have any proof. The steambox is just a PC with steam. Its more about the software then the hardware.
I mean we haven't even seen the finished product yet and you have already made up your mind, with some HUGE assumptions and very questionable premises. If steambox did well it could also lead to more demand for PC upgrades.
Plus, like I said. Gaming for Linux, on the big screen TV combined with XBMC. I love the thought of that. If devs decide not to take up Linux I can still use windows 7, XBMC, and steam. That's what I love about PCs, CHOICE. That's what sucks about consoles, no choice!
But this notion that it could actually hurt PC gaming, beyond what consoles already have... I just don't understand that. Reply
tim851 - Friday, February 22, 2013 - linkThe scenario is this:
Valve encourages other vendors to build Steamboxes, with varying configurations, that's true. But I think others, like Alienware, would be tempted to stay close to Valve's config to maximize compatibilty and ease of production, since they could just copy the Valve's software stack including drivers.
So there's the danger of a single Steambox config prevailing. That would tempt devs to start actively targeting that config. Indies would be first to state: PC compatible, but tested on Steambox only.
If successful, after a while other configs could become increasingly buggy and PC builders (OEM or do-it-yourself) would be wise to adhere to the Steambox config too, especially on the GPU side.
Should Valves choose nVidia for their GPU, this could poison the gaming retail market for AMD, triggering them to just focus on the consoles they're in. And without a competitor, nVidia becomes lazy and just designs to Valve's desire.
We could end up in a situation where the Steambox is just a console you can buy from different vendors. It would still be preferrable to PS4s and Xbox whatevers, but the open spirit of the PC - that is currently under siege on other fronts - would take another hit. Reply
BWAnaheim - Friday, February 15, 2013 - linkPerhaps AMD is realizing that it can leverage increased margins if it does not need to retool every year and can introduce incremental updates rather than new architectures. However, the timeline outlined here makes me wonder if AMD is not delaying the launch to coincide with the next XBOX launch.
Yes, I have read the rumors that the next XBOX features a 6670 or variant, but when the XBOX 360 launched, it featured a GPU that AMD had not yet released (something like a 2900 equivalent if memory serves me correctly?). Perhaps Microsoft is using the next microcode and has made some deal to have exclusive launch with it for 30 days. That would coincide with the next desktop GPU launches based on what I have seen.
AMD is having cash flow issues, so this may be an opportunity seen to defer capital expenditures, too. Maybe they are also hoping people will not sit on the sideline for the next upgrade cycle like I have, giving incentive to purchase today.
Knowing the past history on the AMD development cycles, they could just be way behind. Reply
RussianSensation - Friday, February 15, 2013 - linkThose rumours are old. All the latest information points to Xbox 720 using a 12 compute unit GPU with 768 SPs, 1.23Tflops, with performance similar to that of an HD7770. On the PS4 side the same sources are hinting at an 18 computer unit GPU with 1152 SPs, 1.84Tflops, with performance approximating that of an HD7850. Reply
BWAnaheim - Friday, February 15, 2013 - linkHD7770-like. I would not be surprised, though, if Microsoft wanted to go with a smaller geometry or additional stepping to save further on power and reduce heat loads. That would help to avoid the solder and heat issues that plagued the first generation of the 360. Reply
jjj - Friday, February 15, 2013 - linkTo translate this into english AMD is saying they don't have the resources to stay on a 1 year cycle even if Nvidia has 2/3 of the market now (real numbers not assumptions).
The big question is if the 8xxx series is on 28nm or 20nm. My guess is 20nm at GloFo since when they signed the latest WSA that expires at the end of the year they said some GPUs will be at GloFo . Could be GloFo 28nm, i guess, but that would be less fun for us.
Now lets see if Nvidia goes after share gains and has a new gen soon or they take it easy too.
You mention that laptops are growing and desktops are declining and that's not all that true anymore. Both are declining and laptops might decline at a faster pace. Don't have numbers for machines with discrete GPUs ,that particular segment could be different so do share if you do have any actual numbers.
And since i know someone will have to argue that PC sales are not that bad , just this week Gartner released sales numbers for Q4 in western Europe and ... "In the fourth quarter of 2012, all PC segments in Western Europe declined. Mobile and desktop PC shipments declined 12.1 percent and 10.9 percent in the fourth quarter of 2012, respectively. The decrease in the professional PC market was less severe due to replacement purchases and fell 4.9 percent, while the consumer PC market declined 17.6 percent year-on-year. "
- that decline in consumer is huge and far beyond what the economic troubles would cause and it's serious trouble. Reply
Beenthere - Saturday, February 16, 2013 - linkBefore you know it someone will declare a worldwide economic recession... Q4 in the U.S. was the worst in years. ABout that "recovery" that Bama and the clowns in DC keep spouting off about. Maybe they mean their expense accounts are increasing but not the U.S. economy improving? Reply
Meaker10 - Saturday, February 16, 2013 - linkNvidia are doing the same thing by the way, it's time more than resources. Reply
vailr - Friday, February 15, 2013 - linkAMD had announced over a year ago that there would be a 7790 desktop video card that would be the least powerful card that still had a 256-bit memory interface. Maybe that's what the phrase "AMD will be introducing new retail desktop 7000 series products in the first half of 2013" is referencing?. Reply
Homeles - Saturday, February 16, 2013 - link"AMD had announced over a year ago that there would be a 7790 desktop video card"
No they didn't. Reply
Wreckage - Friday, February 15, 2013 - linkMeanwhile NVIDIA will launch Titan which will be easy enough to scale back in to mid range chips placing the 7970 into the "entry level" category. I think this road map from AMD is a white flag. They know they can no longer compete at the high end, so they simply won't. Reply
silverblue - Saturday, February 16, 2013 - linkA $1,500 card will be easy enough to scale down to mid-range levels?
Also, considering the fastest single GPU card is the 7970 GHz Edition, I fear AMD won't be waving any white flags just yet. Reply
MrSpadge - Saturday, February 16, 2013 - linkAn 800$ card card doesn't put much pressure on a 300 - 400$ card. Reply
B3an - Friday, February 15, 2013 - linkWell this is shitty news. I don't care about any of the business related stuff, this just makes things far less interesting with desktop GPU's and anyone who's an enthusiast.
I hope NV don't follow, although they probably will. I atleast want to see bigger performance increases AND many more new feature with new high-end GPU's if they wont be coming out as often. Sad to see this happening though, it's always fun when a new beefy GPU comes out. Reply
mayankleoboy1 - Friday, February 15, 2013 - linkWhat i understood from the article :
1. No desktop HD8000 brand cards in 2013
2. HD7000 on desktop will get new cards based on the Sea Island arch.
3. Sea Island's fastest chip < Tahiti
4, Which means the fastest consumer desktop GPU will be HD7970 in 2013. Reply
RussianSensation - Saturday, February 16, 2013 - link4, Which means the fastest consumer desktop GPU will be HD7970 in 2013.
Not necessarily. The Titan and launch of GK114 could change that. I think you meant on the AMD side HD7970 will be the faster single GPU part in 2013. Reply
Eyefinity - Friday, February 15, 2013 - linkIt's a fact Ryan that AMD is currently the fastest - the GHz edition is currently 10-20% faster than the 680 in most benchmark suites. Reply
iwod - Friday, February 15, 2013 - linkAm i the only one who AMD is messy with Code Names? Nvidia and Intel does a comparatively much better job. Even looking at the Code Name Cheap Sheet makes me sick.
It is the same architecture with different configuration. It is like a Sandy Bridge being Sold as Core, Pentium and Celeron. The last three are marketing name, but they are all Sandy Bridge.
So Sea Island is the same architecture as Southern Islands? And they have even more names to remember for Fusion APU. Reply
Homeles - Saturday, February 16, 2013 - linkAre you mentally handicapped? Nvidia is far and away the worst. Point in case: GT 555m. The GT 555m has two completely different shader configurations. And look at their "SE" edition desktop cards. Reply
lmcd - Friday, February 15, 2013 - linkbecause on desktop this should mean that AMD's iGPUs catch up with discretes Reply
lmcd - Saturday, February 16, 2013 - linkcatches up architecture-wise. So less fragmentation (IE needing to pair a 6xxx/5xxx-era discrete with a 7xxx-branded integrated for hybrid crossfire)
hopefully, this also means they're going to spend some time and TUNE crossfire and hybrid crossfire. Hybrid crossfire in particular is exciting for cheap consumers. Reply
chizow - Friday, February 15, 2013 - linkIt seems Sea Islands is going to be an old-school refresh of a tried and true GPU, similar to Nvidia's old (and somewhat abandoned) cadence with some of their older GPUs (G70>G71, G80>G92) where they do more than just shrink dies or improve processes, they also tweak functional units. I guess AMD did similar with their R300 > R350 and Cypress > NI refreshes.
Its looking more like 2013 will be the year of refreshes with Sea Islands = refreshed Southern Islands. As expected, Nvidia will most likely launch GF Titan (GK110) as their new flagship along with a refreshed lineup of GK114, GK116, GK118 based Kepler2 parts to counter. Titan should have little problem taking the top-end single GPU title, GTX 690 (or 790 refreshed version) will probably have to go up against a 2xOland 7990 for top-end dual-GPU.
This news should make anyone who bought a new GPU based on SI or Kepler pretty happy to know their GPUs won't be made obsolete by anything released this year, this side of Titan anyways.
I was most impressed by this tidbit in the article though:
"almost unbelievably having sold more 7900 cards in January 2013 than in any month prior "
Just goes to show all the pundits who poo-poo'd Nvidia's logo program in the past had no clue what they were talking about. It was always obvious that strong game bundles sold video cards and now it seems AMD is beating Nvidia at it's own game. Step it up Nvidia, you're falling behind with that F2P garbage bundle you just released.... Reply
chizow - Friday, February 15, 2013 - linkThis to me sounds like spin on the part of AMD, I mean honestly what attachment do the have over this series of numbers over any other?
"Labeling Sea Islands retail desktop parts as members of the 7000 series will allow AMD to introduce new products while still keeping the 7000 branding they've become so proud of."
What all this news really tells me is:
"AMD didn't think Sea Islands performance over Southern Islands warranted a new product series."
Plan your purchasing decisions accordingly! Reply
Beenthere - Saturday, February 16, 2013 - linkI will and I don't need to upgrade for another 2 years. :) Reply
R3MF - Saturday, February 16, 2013 - linki as someone who bought the MSI 7970 HD Lightning for £400, just after the price cut and three game bundle were introduced, i cannot say i am unhappy that my investment will remain current for so long. Reply
jeffkibuule - Saturday, February 16, 2013 - linkYes, but I bought my Radeon 6950 almost 2 years ago and was hoping for something new this year... =/ Reply
tackle70 - Saturday, February 16, 2013 - linkVery helpful for sifting through this information - basically confirmed my suspicion that Tahiti wasn't being usurped anytime soon as AMD's flagship enthusiast product.
I don't mind the slow down of GPU refreshes; nobody needs to upgrade every generation anymore because the games themselves just don't progress graphically all that quickly these days. Reply
burgesjl - Saturday, February 16, 2013 - linkIt's more interesting as regards what was NOT said here.
Confirmed, they won't be creating a new GPU more powerful that Tahiti/7970. The last two generations, AMD had problems because they introduced new (higher) numbers but the performance did not improve, it was an existing architecture basically optimized for power draw. Because 6 to 7 was an architecture change, there was a performance boost. For the first time though, 7 to 8 won't happen because the 8 parts are being optimized for power draw and actually will also be BELOW the performance of the prior gen chips. That is significant.
AMD have decided to place their resources with integration better graphics cores into their APU (CPU/GPU). This is where they have decided to focus, and it makes sense for the laptop and desktop markets. I'll predict the following: the distinction between these parts will disappear after this year. The second key point is that AMD are clearly not planning a shrink from 28 to 20nm this year.
I think AMD are also doing something else. That is, waiting to see if the desktop market effectively disappears this year. The only people buying these are enthusiasts. If that market continues to shrink, I think we may be on the cusp of a really big divide. That is, there will not be a discrete graphics market. Once they are able to integrate a current-generation GPU and CPU on one component, it's game over for discrete. In the past, we've been used to keeping a CPU and just upgrading the GPU once or twice per CPU generation, and as many here have alluded to, they were slowing down their GPU upgrades to every other generation anyway. Those generations are going to be cycled together in future. AMD give the game away with their 'System Integration' step.
Which brings the final point. Their first System Integration offerings will in fact be the next gen XBox and PS4. Those run with unified memory architecture because that's what concoles have always done. Both are going to be based on these (admittedly custom) APUs. AMD will be diverting all possible resources this year to support those launches before the holidays.
So this is why there is no work on a new discrete GPU high-end offering this year. AMD need to put all their (limited) resources behind the merging of APU for both traditional personal computers (desktop/laptop) and consoles. Folks, the 7970 may be the last ever high end discrete GPU; or there may be one more generation on GCN2. Discrete GPUs are done. Reply
RussianSensation - Saturday, February 16, 2013 - linkThe only people buying these are enthusiasts. If that market continues to shrink, I think we may be on the cusp of a really big divide. That is, there will not be a discrete graphics market.
-- Graphics add-in board shipments seasonally up from last quarter
-- Seasonal uplift, led by Nvidia, is almost 2x 10-year average. Normally, this quarter of the year is up, and this year the quarter was no different, with an increase greater than the 10-year average (10.6%).
-- Total AIB shipments increase this quarter from the previous quarter by 18.8% to 17.5 million units (see Table 1).
-- Nvidia continues to hold a dominant market share position at 64%; however, in Q2'12 AMD shipped 5.95 million units, and in Q3'12 shipped 6.26, so they increased in shipments but Nvidia shipped more and therefore grew market share ending up with 11.23 million, up 28% from 8.75 million last quarter (see Figure 5).
-- Year to year this quarter AIB shipments were up 1.7% from 17.2 million to 17.5 million units.
-- Just over 87.6 million PCs shipped worldwide in the quarter, an increase of 0.6% compared to the previous quarter (based on an average of reports from Dataquest, IDC, and HSI).
The market for discrete GPUs is growing, not declining. Reply
burgesjl - Sunday, February 17, 2013 - linkErr, not quite. From the same article:
Year-to-year for the quarter the market increased 1.7%. Shipments increase to 17.5 million units, up 0.3 million units from this quarter last year. The desktop AIB segments decreased in the low end, which JPR thinks is to be expected as embedded graphics processors satisfy the requirements of a market with no new or interesting applications or games—as long as Moore's Law is working and the software developers are complacent, the embedded processors will do well.
So what this says is, the low end is dying out because there are embedded GPUs in the low end machines. This is only going to accelerate, since they are now able to make their way much further up the capability curve than they did a year or so ago. Sales now are to augment those machines bought 1, 2 or 3 years ago. And that was up 1.7% only year-on-year. As these new machines being sold today with APUs become more of the market, they won't have AIB originally and likely nor will they be upgraded. That architecture lends itself to complete replacement, not upgrades.
This last year also saw a big increase in workstation graphics sales in Q3 and Q4. This is not retail gaming for consumers, but businesses. Reply
MrSpadge - Saturday, February 16, 2013 - linkWhat I could see AMD do: start at Pitcairn and scale it up, approximately to Tahiti-level performance, but leave out the compute enhancements (FP64 at 1/4th FP32 probably being the biggest one). I suspect this should drive its die size and cost closer to GK104, while sustaining the bandwidth advantage. The current 7900 series cards could be replaced or supplanted by this chip, so 7900 would still be the fastest. Continue to sell Tahiti for compute / workstation etc. markets. Reply
RussianSensation - Saturday, February 16, 2013 - linkGTX700 series launch was being rumoured for Q4 2013 by European media. The mass US media didn't pick up on this.
http://videocardz.com/39202/nvidia-geforce-700-and... Reply
paul878 - Saturday, February 16, 2013 - linksure AMD, lets hope your friend Nvidia feel the same way and not bring out anything new and faster. Reply
Harkonnen - Sunday, February 17, 2013 - linkWell guess there isn't much sense to waiting for the 8000 series for desktop. Might as well pull the trigger on a 7950. Been looking at the Gigabyte windforce for $289.99. What you guys think. I game at 1080p and have an Core i5 750 based system. Reply
JonnyDough - Sunday, February 17, 2013 - linkSteam is on LINUX! Linux is free!
Older hardware will play a lot of Steam games, PC gaming is REVIVING? Why buy an XBox 720 or PS4 when you can play hundreds of great games on a cheap PC and have more control or the same controller as a console? I think we're going to see the PC reborn, Linux style. Ubuntu is so easy to download, install, and update now. Reply
B3an - Sunday, February 17, 2013 - linkYawn, this tired old crap... It will never be the year of Linux. NEVER.
Steam on Linux don't even have 1% of the Windows games available. It's graphics drivers are also a mess. Reply
Da W - Sunday, February 17, 2013 - linkAs an entousiast since my first 486-66Mhz, today it's the first time I can honestly say i can buy a 1000$-1500$ machine and it will last more than 2 years. If you bought a Sandy Bridge last year you've got no reason to upgrade to Ivy Bridge (performance Wise) and chances are Haswell won't give you that much more horsepower either (only less power draw, which i can care less).
In fact i've been runing on my Phenom II X-3 since 2008 and the CPU still does the job. I've been uprading my GPU yearly though, skipped this year since my AMD 6870 still does the job.
Point is i'm looking for an Ivy bridge i7 upgrade with may be a GTX 660ti or GTX 670 and it will take a few years before i see new software able to throw this new rig to its knees.
Hell i got a Surface pro, and plugged to my 24'' monitor with a Bluetooth keybord+mouse combo it does everything i need for light office work (except heavy excel modeling, even there it's manageable).My new rig is only gonna be for gaming, and since it will be as powerful as this year's new console and that the gaming industry is moving toward cheap-ass ugly 16-bits area free to play games, i'm just gonna be fince for a while. At last i can spend my money elsewhere. Reply
Ankarah - Sunday, February 17, 2013 - linkSo what are they planning to do when Nvidia introduces their Kepler refreshment with a 700GTX lineup?
Sit idly by and watch? Reply
CNP-Keythai - Sunday, February 17, 2013 - linkGood plan by AMD. I hope the planned Graphics products bring great success to them. Reply
sensiballfeel - Sunday, February 17, 2013 - linkEverything is slowing down with GPUs apparently and it is not good for us. Reply
shriganesh - Monday, February 18, 2013 - linkI hope Rory Read doesn't bankrupt AMD. GPU business was the only bright spot in AMD's earnings. But it seems AMD is focusing entirely on consoles and alienating enthusiasts with this new road map. AMD can be comfortable with 7xxx ONLY until nvidia launches the AMD crusher GeForce Titan. If GeForce Titan is really as powerful as they claim to be, then it might take 2 or more generations to catch-up with nVidia AGAIN. nVidia purely being a GPU company diversified with Tegra SoC already. But AMD being an active CPU company doesn't seem to have a mobile (as in phone / tablet) strategy. Hope the new APUs will do well at low power. Reply
haukionkannel - Monday, February 18, 2013 - linkWell the Titan will cost more than douple compared to 7970, so Titan is not a problem to AMD at all!
When Nvidia really release something new in price sector 100$ to 500$ they should be ready to release something new on their own. Untill then there is allmost zero reason to release anything new. Also if they are upgrading their low and middle range cards, they are just fine even above Nvidia in those segments.
The most sensible product would be updated 7870 product that would be near 680 in pure gaming situation, but below 7970 in everything else. Make it cheap enough, and Nvidia has to think about new products and /or price reduction, but so far there has not been anything like that announced. Reply
Martell77 - Wednesday, February 20, 2013 - linkThis makes good sense, they can continue with the success of the 7xxx series, add new boards to fill market gaps, all the while getting the 8xxx series where they want/need it. How angry would we be if the 8xxx series were just a refresh with minimal performance gains?
My theory is that they are working to fix the 7xxxx series weak point and finding performance increases while doing it. By weak point I'm referring to the higher power usage when compared to Kepler. I would think that a change like that would require a good amount of arch reworking. However, at the same time lowering the power draw would likely allow additional performance headroom. Basically, I don't think the 8xxx series will be just a refresh. But, this is just a theory.
Executed properly, this should put AMD in a good position. I would be surprised if nVidia were to release any major performance increases with a 7xx series if released this year.
I really doubt nVidia's Titan will be much of an issue. While it will take the single GPU performance crown, the price/performance is lacking. The 680 / 7970 Ghz already push the price/performance ratio beyond what many think is acceptable. Reply


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