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If the apparatus services multiple dwellings, or a building that produces more than 540 litres of sewage per day, you must contact the Department for approval. These applications must be accompanied by a report from the council on whether or not approval should be granted (a local government report).
It is illegal to install a sewerage apparatus without an approval. It is also an offence to commission a system prior to inspection and approval from the council.
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A licence defines the need to obtain recognition / certification and registration to undertake a certain business activity.
To be eligible for this approval you must show that the system is of an approved design and manufacture, and that it is properly sized and is suitable.
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Shire of Wyndham-East Kimberley
Approval to Construct or Install an Apparatus for the Treatment of Sewage
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subset: commoncrawl


text:
DiceLockXTSDigestedFullBasedCheck is a Linux C++ program to verify that DiceLockXTSDigested class implementing one of DiceLock different architectures is working as expected.
DiceLockXTSDigested class is the cryptographic architecture aimed to storage devices based on XTS operation mode (XEX-based tweaked-codebook mode with ciphertext stealing encryption algorithm) and providing same intrinsic characteristics of DiceLock cipher architecture.
DiceLockXTSDigested class is the class that implements DiceLock architecture with the following characteristics:
– storage devide sector length is any value multiple of 128 bits bigger than 512 bits,
– base encryption cipher/decipher is a block cipher working with symmetric key,
– any hash digest algorithm is used to generate message hash digest from plaintext to be encrypted,
– ciphertext plus ciphered hash digest of plaintext is checked for random number test properties,
– any function that is able to change original symmetric key with new values,
– bit random number tests that can verify that encrypted ciphertext is at random.
Current algorithm classes that can be used with DiceLockXTSDigested architecture are:
– as base encryption cipher/decipher:
– hash digest algorithms: Sha 1, Sha 224, Sha 256, Sha 384, Sha 512, Ripemd 128, Ripemd 160, Ripemd 256, Ripemd 320, Md 2, Md 4 and Md5,
– symmetric key changers: IncreaseKeyModifier_6_0_0_1 and DecreaseKeyModifier_6_0_0_1,
– random number tests: Frequency, Block Frequency, Cumulative Sum Forward, Cumulative Sum Reverse, Runs, Longest Run Of Ones, Rank, Universal, Approximate Entropy, Serial, Discrete Fourier Transform tests and random number test Suite with any or all previous enumerated random number tests.
Because DiceLockXTSDigested class can work on full length plaintext length or sector based length, there are different alternatives for encryption/decryption, we have split DiceLockXTSDigested class tests in two main C++ program tests:
– DiceLockXTSDigestedSectorBasedCheck C++ Source Code program applying DiceLockXTSDigested encryption/decryption on sector base,, and
– DiceLockXTSDigestedFullBasedCheck C++ Source Code program applying DiceLockXTSDigested encryption/decryption on full plaintext length basis,.
In this test we verify DiceLockXTSDigestedFullBasedCheck C++ Source Code program encryption/decryption on device storage sector base with the configuration shown below.
In this test we have selected this DiceLock configuration:
DiceLock class: DiceLockXTSDigested
Storage devide sector length in bytes = 512, 1024, 1536, 2048, 2560, 3072, 3584, 4096, 16384, 32768, (selected in a random basis),
Encryption block cipher: Twofish 256 block cipher
Hash algorithm: Ripemd 320 hash digest algorithm
Random number test: Frequency
Random number test: Block Frequency
Random number test: Cumulative Sum Forward
Random number test: Longest Run of Ones
Random number test: Runs
All random number test significance level: Alpha = 0.001 (confidence level of 99.9 %)
Symmetric key modifier class: DecreaseKeyModifier_6_0_0_1 key modifier
Bit stream class: DefaultCryptoRandomStream bit data stream
DefaultCryptoRandomStream class makes use of default virtual memory where the system can move pages of physical memory to and from swap file on disk (manipulation of physical memory by the system is completely transparent to applications).
At post bottom there are C++ Source Code links to all DiceLock cipher files being used to perform this configuration test.
Execution call has been:
– sh ./DiceLockXTSDigestedSectorBasedCheck.sh B810 DiceLock-x-8-0-0-1-DiceLockXTSDigested-Sector-Twofish-256-Ripemd-320-Frequency-Block-Frequency-CuSum-Forward-Longest-Run-Of-Ones-Runs-Decr-Key-Default-memory.log
In the following post you can find DiceLockXTSDigestedSectorBasedCheck C++ source code that has been executed where you can see how DiceLockXTSDigested class can work with all different options:
– DiceLockXTSDigestedSectorBasedCheck C++ Source Code program
And the result we've gotten is:
Number of streams tested: 62500
From length of shorter stream tested in bits: 8
Up to length of larger stream tested in bits: 500000
Number of correct streams deciphered: 62500
Number of incorrect streams deciphered: 0
Incorrect deciphered streams = 0 ==> ---OK---
Total encrypted streams with at least one sector being reciphered: 5226
Maximum number of reciphers performed over one stream being reciphered: 5
File with reciphered stream data:
Original output log file from DiceLockXTSDigestedSectorBasedCheck execution:
From log file we can see that all randomized-encrypted text sequences have been correctly deciphered.
While DiceLockXTSDigestedSectorBasedCheck was executed a log file of reciphered (plaintext sequences being ciphered more than one time in order to get sequences at random) text sequences has been stored.
DiceLockXTSDigestedFullBasedCheck reciphers log file is composed of rows, and each row shows hexadecimal value for each byte of symmetric key and plaintext, plaintext length in bits, storage device sector length in bytes, data unit value, start block value within data unit, and number of reciphers executed with such plaintext and symmetric key.
Reciphers log file:
This output file will allow us to extract statistical information and to verify DiceLock cipher architecture execution between different operating system environments.
List of C++ source code file links upon which DiceLockXTSDigested class with this selection relies on:
– DiceLock-x 184.108.40.206 for Linux
– DiceLockCipher.h
– cryptoRandomStreams.h
– baseCryptoRandomStream.h
– baseCryptoRandomStream.cpp
– defaultCryptoRandomStream.h
– defaultCryptoRandomStream.cpp
– diceLockXTSs.h
– DiceLockXTS.h
– DiceLockXTS.cpp
– DiceLockXTSDigested.h
– DiceLockXTSDigested.cpp
– symmetricCiphers.h
– baseSymmetricCipher.h
– baseSymmetricCipher.cpp
– blockCiphers.h
– baseBlockCipher.h
– baseBlockCipher.cpp
– baseTwofish.h
– baseTwofish.cpp
– twofish256.h
– twofish256.cpp
– hashes.h
– baseHash.h
– baseHash.cpp
– baseRipemd.h
– baseRipemd.cpp
– baseRipemd160X.h
– baseRipemd160X.cpp
– ripemd320.h
– ripemd320.cpp
– baseKeyModifier.h
– baseKeyModifier.cpp
– decreaseKeyModifier_6_0_0_1.h
– decreaseKeyModifier_6_0_0_1.cpp
– randomTests.h
– randomTestErrors.h
– baseRandomTest.h
– baseRandomTest.cpp
– mathematicalErrors.h
– mathematicalFunctions.h
– mathematicalFunctions.cpp
– frequencyTest.h
– frequencyTest.cpp
– blockFrequencyTest.h
– blockFrequencyTest.cpp
– cumulativeSumForwardTest.h
– cumulativeSumForwardTest.cpp
– longestRunOfOnesTest.h
– longestRunOfOnesTest.cpp
– runsTest.h
– runsTest.cpp
– randomTestSuite.h
– randomTestSuite.cpp
So, DiceLock cipher test and analysis can go on …
DiceLock is a trademark or registered trademark of his owner where applies. DiceLock research is the research to implement Self-corrector randomisation-encryption and method, european patent EP1182777 granted 08/21/2003 and US patent US7508945 granted 03/24/2009.


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An important Vrata dedicated to Goddess Lakshmi in North India is the Mahalakshmi Vratha or Mahalaxmi Puja which begins on the Bhadrapad Shukla Ashtami Tithi (eighth day after new moon in September) and ends on Ashwin Krishna Ashtami Tithi (eighth day after full moon in September). In 2017, Mahalakshmi Vrata begins on August 29 and ends on September 13. The Mahalaxmi Vrata is observed for sixteen days and is mainly followed in
Bihar, Madhya Pradesh and Uttar Pradesh.
The greatness of Mahalakshmi Vrata was explained to Yudhisthira by Lord Krishna. Yudhisthira wanted to know about a Vrata with which he can get back all that he had lost including property and wealth. The importance of the Vrata is also mentioned in the Bhavishya Purana.
The Lakshmi Vrata in
North India begins on the Bhadrapad Shukla Ashtami morning with special prayers to Goddess Lakshmi. After taking bath, usual prayers are offered to Lakshmi. Some people make sixteen knots using a string and tie it on the left hand. Sixteen Dhurva grass is dipped in water and is sprinkled on the body.
The main ritual during the Vrata is abstaining from non-vegetarian food, waking up early taking bath and praying to Goddess Lakshmi for prosperity.
The Vrata ends on the Ashwina Krishna Ashtami day with evening prayers dedicated to Goddess Lakshmi. A Kalash or Purna Kumbha is worshipped as Mahalakshmi on the last day. A bronze Kalasham (pot) is filled with water, akshatas, couple of coins etc. The neck of the pot is decorated with betel leaves or mango leaves. The pot is smeared with kumkum, sandalwood and turmeric paste. A coconut is placed on the neck of the pot and is also smeared with kumkum and turmeric. A new cloth is tied to the Kalasha and it is worshipped as Goddess Lakshmi.
Normal pujas are performed on all days like lighting a lamp, incense and dhoop etc. You can also listen to Lakshmi Sahasranama or other bhajans or Mahalakshmi Vratha Katha dedicated to Goddess Mahalakshmi during the period.


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Why are Hanna babies so happy? This super-cozy little sleeper is surely part of it...our legendary babysuit cuddles them in extra-huggable comfort that's zippity-quick at changing time, and makes life just as easy for newborns as it does for new walkers. Truly Hanna-me-down quality.
• Expanded baby/toddler sizes = a perfect fit for every little one
• 100% organic combed cotton ribbknit
• Super-smooth flatlock seams
• Handy neck-to-knee zipper has protective top tab
• Ready-to-grow cuffs keep the fit
• Certified by OEKO-TEX® Standard 100 | 03.U.9375 - FI Hohenstein
• Prewashed
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Wear snug fitting; not flame resistant. Please use the snug fit cotton sleepwear size chart.
Item # 47810


text: We fully understand the awesome task that you face as you guide your students through high school and help them plan for the future. There is no doubt that you are constantly bombarded with requests for information about the thousands of higher educational institutions nationwide. With that in mind, we have designed our website to help familiarize you with our requirements and academic programs. We've also provide helpful links that we hope will help make the college selection process at FMU extremely user-friendly. As always, if you we can be of service to you or your students please contact us… We're here for you!


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Cook for the Cure, Presented by KitchenAid
The KitchenAid Cook for the Cure mixer is amazing. First of all, anyone who enjoys baking needs a kitchenAid mixer. I have baked so many batches of cookies with my family's. Plus, it supports Breast Cancer Research. And, its a light shade of pink. This mixer is a great gift for anyone who likes spending time in the kitchen. So much can be done with it, and it looks so fantastic on your counter!
i bake alot and this saves my me. it works so well!!!Tags: home, food, kitchen, appliances, gadgets, recipes, cooking, cooking tools, bakingAdded 9 Years Ago from Amazon.com


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Linebacker prospect changes mind on UF
Published: Friday, May 17, 2013 at 2:55 p.m.
Last Modified: Friday, May 17, 2013 at 3:03 p.m.
One of the highest-ranked prospects in Florida's 2014 class is back on the market.
Columbia (S.C) Spring Valley linebacker Christian Miller decommitted from the Gators on Friday morning.
"After a lot of hard thinking and discussions with my parents, I have respectfully decided to open my recruitment back up," Miller wrote on his Facebook account.
The 6-foot-4, 215-pounder pledged to UF following its Junior Day event on Feb. 16. His relationship with new defensive line coach Brad Lawing, who coached Miller's father, Corey, at South Carolina, had a lot to do with it.
But the top-100 recruit has chosen to take his official visits so he can commit to a school more so than a coach. Florida is still one of his favorites at this time along with Alabama and Tennessee.
The Gators now have eight commits in their 2014 class, including five Rivals250 members with the loss of Miller.
Reader comments posted to this article may be published in our print edition. All rights reserved. This copyrighted material may not be re-published without permission. Links are encouraged.


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Websites are like people—there are billions of them, they each require their own name, and they're infinitely cuter when covered with images of puppies. Assume a cyber identity with this Groupon.
Choose Between Two Options
- $10 for $30 worth of website-building products
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Domain registrations for .com and .co names begin at $9.99 for one year, with options to secure the name for up to 10 years. Supplementary products and services include 100 gigabytes of storage space and unlimited sharing ($2.49/month) as well as lightning-fast web hosting ($2.99–$7.49/month).
With more than 300 templates and 2,000 design options, not to mention 70 prebuilt websites, GoDaddy is one of the most user-friendly website-building resources on the Internet. Dotcom domain names come with features such as e-mail accounts, photo albums, and Google webmaster tools, and an extensive product catalog offers add-ons such as online storage space, logo-design services, and SSL certificates. Access to an intuitive drag-and-drop site builder allows you to easily pepper GoDaddy's predesigned homepages with custom text and contact information. Customer support is available 24/7 to walk you through online snags and to help get the hackers out from under your bed.


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Stacked SEC gets A&M, Mizzou
Published: Thursday, February 14, 2013 at 6:01 a.m.
Last Modified: Thursday, February 14, 2013 at 12:03 a.m.
The Southeastern Conference has won three of the past four NCAA baseball championships, so the league didn't need to get any tougher.
It might have anyway.
The SEC adds Missouri and Texas A&M this season, two solid baseball programs that increase the depth of a league that has no shortage of candidates to go to the College World Series. The season opens Friday for all 14 teams, with conference play beginning in March.
For Vanderbilt coach Tim Corbin, the four weeks of non-conference play provide a short window to make sure his team is ready for such a competitive conference.
"This is the premier league in the country, and the truth is someone's got to lose," Corbin said. "It's a war of attrition. You've got to keep yourself from falling over, keep your gloves up. Everyone's good. Everyone's recruiting good players. There's very little difference between the 14th team and the first team."
The SEC's coaches picked Arkansas to win the league title. The Razorbacks have one of the league's top pitchers — and a potential No. 1 Major League Baseball draft pick — in right-hander Ryne Stanek. Their lineup will be anchored by Dominic Ficociello, who hit .290 with six homers and 41 RBIs last season.
Arkansas coach Dave Van Horn knows that during the 56-game regular season, there's bound to be some ups and downs.
"We're trying to calm ourselves down a little bit," Van Horn said. "We're ranked so high, that expectations, you're supposed to stay there all year. It's going to be tough."
Vanderbilt was picked to win the Eastern Division. The Commodores struggled early last season, but rallied late to make the NCAA tournament. Most of the team returns, including lineup mainstays Mike Yastrzemski, Conrad Gregor and Tony Kemp.
But as usual, most of the league's teams have a realistic shot of making it to Omaha. Mississippi State, South Carolina, LSU, Kentucky, Mississippi and Florida join the Razorbacks and Commodores in Baseball America's preseason top 25.
The Gamecocks won back-to-back national titles in 2010 and 2011 and lost in the national championship series to Arizona last season. New coach Chad Holbrook takes over for Ray Tanner, who left the baseball program to become the school's athletic director.
There are some new twists to the league this season. The addition of Texas A&M and Missouri is widely viewed as a positive, but there's now a greater possibility that scheduling quirks could affect the outcome of the conference race. The 30-game schedule features three games against 10 opponents, meaning each team will miss three others.
Mississippi State looks as though it has one of the toughest schedules, with a weekend series against all of the preseason favorites.
"It's true that because of the schedule, somebody is probably going to have a big advantage over somebody else," Bulldogs coach John Cohen said. "But truthfully, nobody knows who is going to be the best or worst team in our league right now. I think we'll see how it works this year and then make changes if needed. Our league is evolving. That's why we've pioneered in every sport."
The SEC's postseason tournament has also expanded to include 12 of the 14 teams. Mississippi coach Mike Bianco said part of the reason the coaches voted for a larger tournament was to help offset the potential inequities of the regular-season schedule.
"Our league is so good from top to bottom, we thought it made sense to include more teams in the conference tournament, especially when you consider the possible scheduling issues," Bianco said.
Newcomer Texas A&M has a traditionally strong program that's been to the College World Series three times in the past 20 years, including in 2011. Missouri doesn't have quite the same pedigree, but has consistently made the NCAA tournament under 19th-year coach Tim Jamieson.
Jamieson said coming to the SEC means a big-time atmosphere every weekend on the road. He said that in the Big 12, there were a handful of programs that provided the same challenge, but it would be more consistent in the SEC.
"We've always had success against the better teams in the Big 12," Jamieson said. "We usually play better in those types of environments. But it's hard to compare our team to the rest of the SEC because there are so many unknowns. All I know is I like our team. I think it's going to be competitive."
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text:
Solutions - Slipper Genie
Yes - a must have for anyone with hardwood floors. Slip these on and make it a game with the kids. I like the idea of keeping them in a bucket like the one shown too. Why do the floors yourself when you can have the little ones do it?


text:
Leg: Fracture
I broke my leg bouldering and had a titanium rod installed. I have heard mixed reports about leaving the rod in, one problem being irritation by the screws. Can the rod increase the chance of the leg breaking in the same place under similar circumstances, since the bone cannot "weld" itself together on the inside? Also, can I go to Hueco in 12 weeks?
Peter Allison, Christchurch, New Zealand
I would say thanks for the video (and I have posted it on my web page, www.drjuliansaunders.com) but it reminds me too much of when I had my own highball epiphany—hey, bones really break!
Prosthetic titanium fixtures have been a gargantuan step forward in fracture management. Alignment is virtually guaranteed, and weight bearing and healing resume much more quickly. The fracture should be healed in a year or so. Though removing the rod is routine, this decision will rest with your orthopedic surgeon. And then you could get the titanium cold-forged into a funky necklace or genital piercing.
Although strength will be pretty good by the time Hueco comes around, you would be a brave soul coming off anything but the lowest of lowballs. My advice would be to go on the trip, but if your scrotum can't drag on the gravel you're too high. Literally, you cannot land on that leg until the rod is removed, and then some. You have been booby trapped with an in situ spear. In the event of a bad fall and landing you can shear the locking screws and drive the rod either through your ankle or up into your knee. Badness, cabron!The biggest problem, short term, will not be the fracture site but rather the temporary lack of ankle mobility due to swelling and recent immobility. Simple things like heat and stretching will do wonders. For more detail check out the ankle stretching video on my web page.


text:
ASUS F1A75-I Deluxe Review – Llano and Mini-ITXby Ian Cutress on 10/1/2011 5:30 PM EST
- Posted in
- Motherboards
- Asus
51 Comments
Back to Article
StormyParis - Saturday, October 01, 2011 - linkMobile Llanos use a different socket I think ? For cheap mini-itx nettops, I'd rather have that, especially because desktop llanos need 65W and up, which is a lot. Reply
Taft12 - Sunday, October 02, 2011 - linkAt idle, these desktop parts draw about the same amount of power as laptop parts. Also, please observe the difference between TDP and actual system power draw Reply
CharonPDX - Monday, October 03, 2011 - linkFor cheap systems, you don't want to use more expensive mobile chips. A little extra heat on the desktop is possible to exhaust more easily. Reply
Z Throckmorton - Saturday, October 01, 2011 - linkThank you very much for the very informative review, Ian. I've been waiting way too long for ITX FM1 boards to appear, and there's finally some proliferation in the field. Hopefully the field will continue to widen both in terms of APUs and boards.
Any word on why OC'ing in AHCI is abysmal and in IDE, very impressive? Is this an issue with this board in particular, or this chipset in general? Reply
Taft12 - Sunday, October 02, 2011 - linkI'm with you on the need for ITX FM1 boards. I'd argue that there's really no need for *ANY* FM1 system to be larger than micro-ATX (and only then for the benefit of 4 memory slots). If you need more video processing power than Llano integrated, you should be buying AM3+ Reply
mariush - Saturday, October 01, 2011 - linkRead all the article...
In my opinion that bit about being unable to overclock shouldn't be on the first page, it may put off the reader and stop him from reading further.
On the page where you actually discuss about overclocking, you should remind people that it's a beta BIOS and just maybe they won't have to switch to IDE mode in final versions of the motherboard to get good overclocking.
Maybe it's just me but I would have appreciated a test showing the power consumption of the system with just plain 2 GB of memory, with wireless disabled and a simple budget ssd drive or a 5900 rpm drive - probably the configuration people would use for htpc or for an office machine.
I see the system uses 122 watts of power when playing Metro but how about the case when there's no additional video card - would I be able to run it from let's say a 120w pico-psu combined with a 19v laptop brick?
It would also be nice to see how low the voltage of the CPU can go and still keep the system stable, just in case someone would like to make the system as cool as possible and make it silent
You also say the power is measured at the wall but you're using a 1000w power supply - this is ridiculous.
The Silverstone Strider Plus 1000w is reported to have only about 80.8 efficiency at 100 watts, see jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story2&reid=180 Reply
just4U - Saturday, October 01, 2011 - linkAs an enthusiast.. this would likely go into a small formfactor for the TV.. I don't even see why Overclocking would be a deal breaker at all. Reply
mdk777 - Saturday, October 01, 2011 - link"The Silverstone Strider Plus 1000w is reported to have only about 80.8 efficiency at 100 watts, see jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story2&reid=180 "
correct: It is really much worse for the idle !
Most likely at half this wattage the efficiency is closer to 70 %
Hence that 50 watt idle at the wall translates into 35 watts direct.
With a proper 400 watt gold rated PSU you would pull 38 to 39 watts.
Hence a horrible reporting error of what ? over 24%
What a joke. Why didn't you just use a 1500 watt bronze unit to try and skew the results even more.???? Reply
Arnulf - Sunday, October 02, 2011 - linkYup, undervolting would be interesting, not the silly 1.5V on 32 nm chip. Reply
tecknurd - Sunday, October 02, 2011 - linkIf the computer consumes 122 watts and the power supply rating is 120 watts, this is will hurt the power supply trying to use more power than the power supply is rated for. It is best to select a power supply that has more power than the device is trying to use. There are 160 watt pico power supply units that will be better suited for the setup. Using a pico power supply is best to use with lower power processors like an A6-3600 or A4-3400.
Yes, using a 1000 watt power supply for this setup is over kill. Probably this is the power supply that author has in their junk box. Sure jonnyguru.com might be good, but where is the ripple voltage or quality of the power that the Silverstone power supply is providing at the low power. Efficiency is part of a good power supply, but the quality of the power matters more when caring for stability of the computer.
Increasing the voltage over than the stock voltage of the processor can hurt the processor. Some motherboards may do this already and increasing voltage just adds more problems. Use a multimeter to check the voltage. If you do not know what you are doing where to place the probes for the multimeter, just do not do it. Reply
mariush - Sunday, October 02, 2011 - linkWell, see, here's where you're wrong and that's why it would have been nice to test that.
This hardware was using 122 watts WITH an additional video card, on a 1000 watts power supply that has 80.8% efficiency at such low loads.
So realistically, the system uses about 110 real watts on full load WITH the additional video card.
I would have liked to know how much is the system actually using WITHOUT an extra video card - my guess is the consumption would drop by about 30 watts in load and about 10-15 watts in idle.
An 120 watt pico PSU has about 87% efficiency and can only deliver about 6-8 Amps on 12v line, when powered from a 19v laptop adapter (it's irrelevant how efficient this adapter is for this talk).
So assuming the pico psu can do a maximum of 6A on 12v (72w), it really makes a difference if the consumption drops to about 85-90 watts in total without an additional video card (because memory/ uses the 3.3v lines and 5v is used by the USB port/lan/wireless and the SSD, so the rest would probably fit in those 6 Amps of 12v power)
As for the ripple paragraph, both the laptop adapter AND the pico psu power converter do filtering so they're quite good and provite quality power to the system, see : jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story5&reid=207
As things are now, as the tests were made with 1000w psu and only with an extra video card (would you like future systems to only be tested in Crossfire or SLI?) ... there's really no way to form an opinion.
And as for the middle paragraph...I own a Seasonic X-650, which according to tests can manage up to 92.5% efficiency. The results would have been much closer to the reality and the tests could still be done on other systems even with two power hungry video cards Reply
mariush - Sunday, October 02, 2011 - linkOh... and a last thing...
The system was tested with the Corsair water cooler - the pump itself uses 2-3 watts of power and you also need a fan to cool the radiator, which is at least another 2 watts...
The stock cooler for the processor probably uses less than 3 watts at full speed.
I know, it's very little but it adds up, and the majority of the people buying these things won't buy water coolers for them and 1000w power supplies. Reply
pinto76 - Monday, October 03, 2011 - linkThe whole review is subpar. Aside from the language I'm sure all of 3 people reading cared for water cooling comments or the above mentioned power consumption figures off a 1000w PSU. There's no word about wifi. Not what it is or whether it even works at all. For the future, guys, please, boot up from an Ubuntu live CD, type 'sudo iw list', 'sudo lshw -C network -sanitize', and 'sudo lspci -v' and save outputs as an attachment to the article. Trust me it'll be far better help to at least half the people reading the articles and actually thinking of buying this stuff.
And you do have to get on their butts about not providing a vertical mini PCIe slot, it costs them more to do it because they have to make a bracket since mini PCIe cards won't stay up by themselves; in the low profile fitting you'll be limited to half size cards only replacements. And you'll want to replace it if what Zotac puts in their boards is any indication - and not that I'm knocking them for it, I'd much rather have mini PCIe with a vertical bracket than anything in the slot anyway.
No word on bluetooth either. Reply
Death666Angel - Saturday, October 01, 2011 - linkHowever, I think the AsRock A75M-ITX can be more appealing, because of it's different CPU socket position. I have that board because it will fit a Scythe Big Shuriken (awesome low-ish profile cooler) and still have the PCIe slot uncovered (not using it at the moment but it's nice to know I can). Designs such as the Asus here have the problem of having the CPU socket too close to the slot. If you want to use the PCIe slot you either need quite a small cooler (read: loud) or go with a water cooling all-in-one and that brings a whole other pack of problems.
Still, it's great to see ITX boards being offered for new systems! The more the better! Reply
just4U - Saturday, October 01, 2011 - linkConsidering the features on these baby boards.. I don't quite understand why they command a premium. One would think they'd come in at a lower price point then some of the value MATX boards. Reply
DanNeely - Saturday, October 01, 2011 - linkThey're more expensive because packing everything in so tightly requires using more compact controller chips for 3rd party features instead of the larger, cheaper versions on full size boards and because squeezing everything together so tightly means having to use more layers in the PCB to connect everything. Packing everything together so tightly makes avoiding EMI problems between components more difficult as well.
On top of the engineering challenges miniITX boards are sufficently low volume parts that you start paying penalties in manufacturing costs and have to fund more engineering time per board. Reply
just4U - Saturday, October 01, 2011 - linkI didn't realize the boards had more layers.. when I see these reviews I think of barebone boards like ones made for OEMs and such. Makes some sense I suppose.. Still I think all in all I'd be more likely to pick up a feature rich MATX in the same price range over something like this.. Yeah your casing might be marginally bigger but even so. Reply
Death666Angel - Saturday, October 01, 2011 - linkI have a mini ITX case with these measurements:
185x240x70 mm
I have barely any space left and right (mini ITX is 170x170mm) and the space that I have in front is used for the built-in PSU dc/dc converter. This case has 3.1l volume. If I were to have the exact same case, just with a mATX mainboard (adding 74mm to the width and depth), I would get:
259x314x70mm, resulting in 5.7l volume, almost doubling it.
That's not something I'd refer to as "marginally bigger".
You really can't compare (m)ATX to ITX in my opinion. :-) Reply
ckryan - Sunday, October 02, 2011 - linkThe difference between mini ITX cases and micro ATX cases is substantial. It doesn't take much effort to chop the two inches off of an ATX board to make it micro. Making a micro into a mini is entirely different. Mini ITX boards are 6.7 in x 6.7 in, and most of that gets taken up by the CPU socket/VRM area as well as the DIMM slots. Add in the PCIE slot and you don't have much to work with.
Most uATX cases are still 17" deep and 8" wide by at least 13" tall. Many mini ITX enclosures are closer to the size of a Nintendo Wii. Most people don't need such a small system, but if you do it's usually worth the premium. BIOS/UEFI options on a small board are worth their weight in gold, as are competent WiFi options. Under volting is a must have for AMD systems, but 1155 Intel CPUs don't have much to gain from it. With a feature-laden ITX board, a powerful but low tdp processor, and some solid state storage, there's not really many compromises to make. With the right case and mobo you can toss in a powerful GPU, further expanding its range of uses. Or toss in an InfiniTV Quad tuner card and record 4 hd cable streams simultaneously. That's why these boards are great -- there's not much of a limit to the possibilities. Reply
Death666Angel - Saturday, October 01, 2011 - linkFirst off, the numbers are in favor of ATX and mATX boards, since they just sell more volume. Then, you generally don't have extra stuff like WLAN on most of those standard boards. The layout for the bigger boards is significantly less crowded resulting in easier manufacturing as well.
You cannot look at ITX and think "hm, they took an ATX board and just cut stuff off". You have to think "hm, they took an ATX board and just condensed it into this mini board". Offering the same things on less space is generally more expensive. This applies here. The few (RAM, PCI, PCIe) slots you lose unfortunately aren't big money savers ;). Reply
jensend - Saturday, October 01, 2011 - linkGlad to see at least one manufacturer put two usb3 ports on the back and included a header for the A75's other ports. ASRock's board wouldn't allow for any front usb3 ports or any internal usb3 devices (usu. card readers).
But $145 is a bit steep for my taste. Hopefully they'll come out with a cheaper version sans remote. Reply
Death666Angel - Saturday, October 01, 2011 - link"this board has not been released"
I can buy this board at 14 different online stores and they have it in store. Unless Europe/Germany has a different ASUS F1A75-I Deluxe, this thing is released as can be. :-)
Also, it costs 45€ more than the AsRock I got and the only difference I see is the AsRock has no WLAN, no remote and no DP. For me, I made the right choice. :D Reply
Iketh - Saturday, October 01, 2011 - linkWhy in the world is a 1000W PS being used for this system???? Use a 350w silver or even less.... I stopped reading when I saw that Reply
AnandThenMan - Sunday, October 02, 2011 - linkThe make Llano look bad, there is no other logical explanation. Well except gross incompetence to use such a PS for this platform. Reply
Death666Angel - Sunday, October 02, 2011 - linkIt's the curse of a standardized test system:
you save quite a bit of time and have overall the better comparison between tests, but you do end up making some things look worse than they are, since one size doesn't fit all.
I think you are reading too much into this. If you want to see how this (obvious HTPC board) fares with a HTPC setup, go look for another site that specializes in it. :-)
Intel Motherboards are tested with the same setup btw and they are looking about as good as Llano here, I think. And when you look at the initial SNB review, you have idle numbers for the i3 3100 of 73W (they don't list the used PSU in those reviews), which is quite a lot worse than Llano and some Athlons in that test.
:D Reply
Soulkeeper - Saturday, October 01, 2011 - link1.35 V is the lowest dram voltage it will let you select ?
Any idea if future bios can/will allow lower ? Reply
Soulkeeper - Saturday, October 01, 2011 - linkDoes this keyboard function like a standard wireless usb keyboard ?
IE: it doesn't need special drivers and will work in linux ? Reply
hp79 - Saturday, October 01, 2011 - linkAMD really sucks. 50 Watt of power in idle with integrated GPU is really terrible.
I have a intel i3-2120 with 8GB ram, 1 SSD, 1 HDD, GTX 460 1GB on a intel mini-itx board, which is housed in Lian Li PC-Q11 and that uses only 45W power on idle. When playing games, the case stays really quiet and takes around 100W to 140W. By the way, I have a Antec 380W 80 plus power supply.
Imagine what it'll look like if I take off that power hungry graphics card since intel HD2000 has no problem handling multimedia stuff.
50W idle for AMD Llano is really a shame. Especially since energy usage is directly related to heat, and space is a premium for HTPCs or mini-itx cases, 50W idle is really not a good choice.
One thing I have to thank AMD is for it wasn't for them, intel would have been less innovative, and who knows we might have been stuck with Pentium D's today. I don't expect much from AMD's but I hope they can continue to offer some mid-end, low-end competition so we can buy intel's good stuff for cheap. i3-2120 plus H61 motherboard for $110 is an amazing price. Reply
nubie - Sunday, October 02, 2011 - linkUm, did you see the guy above you complaining about the 1000watt power supply?
Maybe that is the cause of the power draw being so high.
These results only are comparable with a computer using the 1000watt power supply.
I would love to see a PC using the Xbox360 power brick for example, 203Watt was the highest spec they came in, newer ones are close to 100watt. Reply
hp79 - Sunday, October 02, 2011 - linkYes, I read his comment after reading the whole article. I also thought the 1000W power supply was awkward, but still shouldn't be the reason using that much power. It's a 80 Plus PSU, and an expensive one.
I also have a AMD Athlon X3 435 which uses 55W on idle with nforece integrated graphics. Another reason I don't like AMD is that the performance was lower than a cheap ass $30 Celeron E3300 when I tested playing games with a GT240 graphics card on both of them. No more AMDs in my house. Reply
jensend - Sunday, October 02, 2011 - linkYou're totally wrong. The 80 Plus standard tells you how efficient the PSU is at 20%, 50%, and 100% of its rated capacity. PSUs are usually most efficient at around 2/3 of their capacity, and though they can be almost as efficient at full load, efficiency inevitably drops off sharply for loads which are ~15% of the full load or below.
For a 1KW PSU like the one used in the review, they only had to meet efficiency targets at 200W to get certified; it's probably operating at only ~60% efficiency when these machines are idling at around 30W. Even an 80 Plus Platinum 1000W PSU is likely to be no more efficient than a non-80 Plus-certified 300W PSU for the sub-100 wattages most computers use most of the time.
The 80 Plus certification program is badly designed. Too many people think they're getting an efficient PSU when the PSU is only efficient at wattages they'll never use, and manufacturers make more high wattage PSUs because it is easier to be high efficiency and get certified at ridiculously high wattages. Reply
nubie - Sunday, October 02, 2011 - linkExactly, the only way to be sure what the BOARD draw is would be to measure the 12v 3.3v and 5v lines going to the board.
Re $119 deal, I don't think that is available to anyone anymore, $139 for just that processor on Newegg.
Nforce graphics are notoriously power hungry, I should know I have had half a dozen of them. That comparison is silly.
Did you try the true Dual Core AMD without the latency-adding L3 cache? The Athlon II x2 2x1MB Lvl 2 models are decent. You can find them for around $35 if you keep a lookout, I wouldn't knock it.
The 5 watts you may potentially save is nothing compared to what your monitor or an inefficient sound system may draw. Reply
hp79 - Monday, October 03, 2011 - linkYeah, before I upgraded the AMD system to X3 last year, it had a AMD BE 2300 in it. It sucked around 40W at the time and I was happy about the power consumption. But the thing was too slow even for normal web surf and stuff so I upgraded the CPU.
I know the 80 Plus does not mean it's all-the-way 80% or more efficient. I was thinking that it can't be that far off even if it is at 10% load. In this case, it's even lower than that, and thinking again, it does make a lot of difference in such a small load.
Comparing this AMD system again with Intel Sandy Bridge system, unless you need to play games with so-so graphics of Llano, I don't think it's worth it to use it for HTPC usage. I read reviews that idling at 20W is normal for Sandy Bridge systems. I believe my desktop power usage will also drop to those levels if I take off my GTX 460 graphics card. Sure, if it was 5W we are talking about, it's not a big deal. But 50W AMD vs 20W Intel is a lot. Yes, I agree the test is flawed so they should redo the test using a lower wattage PSU. Reply
Death666Angel - Monday, October 03, 2011 - linkJust a quick info: my HTPC build with these components:
60W pico psu
AsRock A75M-ITX
A6-3500 (triple core)
500GB 2.5" HDD Toshiba (still need a MicroSATA adapter for my 1.8" SSD)
draws ~51W when using Linx with 3 threads (it goes to P0 with 2.1GHZ). It draws ~56W when I set P0 as the B0 with 2.4GHz. With medium activity (web browsing while installing windows updates) I get ~35W. In idle I have between ~25W and ~30W.
Btw. this is all with K10Stat lowering the votlages by betwem .2V (P6,P5), .3 (P4) and .4V (P3-P0 and B0). Which is kinda ridiculous and makes you wonder if AMD did this on purpose to not conflict with their Brazos line....
Anyway, I think those voltages are pretty sweet. Reply
jensend - Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - linkWhat case are you using? I'm planning on doing a very similar build (though with a higher capacity picopsu) and I'm having trouble settling on a case. Reply
Roland00Address - Sunday, October 02, 2011 - link1) The item to my understanding is not on the market yet. Made more evident via an estimated price instead of a real one.
2) Uses a pre-release bios
3) Item was shipped via ASUS, when previous we were told via Anandtech motherboard reviews (not neccessary other items such as laptops) would be bought on the open market.
We were told these policies were going to be implemented due to the disaster that was testing on the x58 roundup less than 3 years ago.
I do appreciate this article and I enjoyed reading it, but I believe it should be called a preview and not a review. Reply
Nihility - Sunday, October 02, 2011 - linkIt would be nice to know how long it takes EFI on different motherboards to finish loading.
Especially with Windows 8 and its faster boot speed, it's an important metric.
Some older BIOSes when set to AHCI and RAID would take 20 seconds to load, I'd like to be able to avoid such products in the future. Reply
Death666Angel - Sunday, October 02, 2011 - linkWhy?
All that really counts is that you can see how component x (ASUS mini ITX) fares against a competing component y (AsRock ATX), so you can make the decision what is better for your usage model. This standardized test setup delivers that. It does not show the performance, power consumption etc. that you will see at home, but it does show the difference between different components.
If this motherboards draws more power vs. the other tested FM1 from AsRock, it is true to say that the same would be true for you at home, same thing with different performance deltas.
I think this is the best setup if you want the biggest overall comparison size while still not devoting all your time. Because time really is the #1 constraint here. Reply
AnandThenMan - Sunday, October 02, 2011 - linkYou're just making excuses. Other sites are using proper better testing methods, what is the problem here? No one, and I mean no one, is going to pair this system with a 1000 watt power supply, and I don't know about you, but I like to read reviews that reflect how a typical system is actually going to be configured and used. Reply
Death666Angel - Monday, October 03, 2011 - linkI would like that as well, but I understand the time constraints behind it, because testing every system according to their usage will mean testing every system at least 2 to 3 times. This ITX mainboard could be used in a HTPC with a pico PSU, but it could also be used in a Lian Li case with 6 3.5" HDDs for a selfmade mini-NAS, which would need more power. You would also need to test other motherboards with this little pico PSU, because otherwise you cannot compare the motherboards to one another.
In a perfect world, we would have 5 different setups for this motherboard, the HTPC with pico PSU and undervolted. The HTPC with a pico PSU and an additional graphics card. The mini-NAS with 5-8 3.5" HDDs. The gamer PC with a powerful graphics card and overclocked CPU. And maybe the 5th can be overclocked CPU with pico PSU as HTPC with better decoding capabilities.
Every one of those usages probably has readers who are interested in it. And then you would need to have all those test setups applied to every other FM1 motherboard or else you cannot decide which one uses the least power, has the best overclock etc. You see the problem you start running into without a few standardized test setups?
I'm not making excuses, why would I? I have no affiliation to this website and am just a reader. Reply
bijeshn - Monday, October 03, 2011 - linkHow good is the onboard wireless 802.11 b/g/n implementation on this board? Reply
mitcoes - Monday, October 03, 2011 - linkI do think this devices are ATOM competence.
As they provide a remote control, pobrably to be used as set top boxrs attached to TVs.
Google TV, Android, Desktop Linux, and even Hackintosh are the OSs that will run better.
MS WOS is for AMD Phenom and bulldozers or iNTEL I3 to i9 not for Llano or ATOM.
At this kind of devices nix works far more better than MS WOS. Reply
Death666Angel - Monday, October 03, 2011 - linkAnd why exactly is that?
Also, can Linux play commercial blurays, yet? Can I legally install MacOS on a non-Apple PC? Does Google TV or Android have an easy installation routine and easy navigation on a PC? Reply
CharonPDX - Monday, October 03, 2011 - link*SEEMS* good. But to use a USB dongle, rather than either CIR (standard WinMCE protocol) or Bluetooth seems dopey. Heck, I'd like to see it use CIR for the WinMCE side, and Bluetooth for the keyboard/mouse half... Reply
MobiusStrip - Monday, October 03, 2011 - linkWhen these babies have Thunderbolt, they're gonna rock. Reply
justniz - Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - linkPlease stop using 1024x768 for gaming benchmarks.
I'm pretty sure practically no gamer uses a 4:3 monitor or plays in such a low resolution.
Whats wrong with 1920x1080?
Furthermore with any modern GPU, at such a low res th'eres a strong chance all you're maxing out is the DMA bandwidth to/from the GPU, not its rendering muscles. Reply
mariush - Tuesday, October 04, 2011 - linkActually a better resolution would be 1280x720.
Since it's 16:9, various wide format monitors would not distort the image and since it's HDMI native TVs would probably upscale it just fine to 1920x1080.
Such resolution is suitable to test on board video cards (and cpu embedded video cards) - with higher resolutions you may get into memory bandwidth issues and then you're not really testing the gpu anymore.. Reply
ddrum2000 - Wednesday, October 05, 2011 - linkI agree with many that this review is a bit flawed. I'd like to see this board compared to the AsRock A75M-ITX and the Zotac A75ITX-A-E . In addition the A8-3850 is not the best HTPC CPU because of the high TDP. The A8-3800 with a 65 W TDP (I think) would be a much better HTPC comparison. Thanks to the person who said that the Scythe Big Shuriken will not fit as the was the cooler I was planning to use. Thoughts? Reply
AnnihilatorX - Thursday, October 06, 2011 - linkI am looking for a power efficient mini-ITX build
I was hoping to see some power consumption benchmark :/ Reply
Soulkeeper - Sunday, October 16, 2011 - linkI think your motherboard review would be improved if you included the following:
A table containing the bios min/max for all voltage, fsb, mult, etc. settings
Tomshardware does this when they compare motherboards and it's really helpful :)
Also I can't help but wonder if the wifi can be removed and replaced with a mSATA/'miniPCIe' SSD and used as the boot drive.
Thank you Reply
fromage2323 - Tuesday, November 22, 2011 - linki just want to say i cant get the remote to work on win7 64-bit no matter what i do. drivers install automatically just fine but it does nothing. same result on two different systems so far. other than that i love the board. Reply


text:
MIPS Technologies Updates Processor IP Lineup with Aptiv Seriesby Ganesh T S on 5/10/2012 8:55 AM EST
40 Comments
Back to Article
sicofante - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkWhat's the meaning of IP here? Thanks. Reply
Homeles - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkIntellectual Property.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_intelle... Reply
SydneyBlue120d - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkIs there something like Mali, PowerVR and so on? And what about Cell modems (LTE and so on)? Thanks. Reply
Arnulf - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkThis is precisely why AMD should be the buyer of MIPS. They can contribute their (ATI's) GPU expertise and AMD's with hybrid processing ... this would be a killer combination. Reply
quadrivial - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkI agree that AMD and MIPS could be a great combination. I don't know if they could outbid China.
The Chinese scientists who started the first (or at least the first to make tech news headlines over here) major Chinese-designed processor had the pick of any architecture they wanted (they weren't paying licensing fees anyway) and they still chose MIPS for the Loongson processors (which are now in devices ranging from small consumer devices to a petaflop supercomputer). Reply
Penti - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkAMD/ATi already sold their mobile GPU business to Qualcomm and Broadcom respectably and has none left. They couldn't contribute a great deal here. As they already did to the field. These chips and MIPS Tech itself doesn't compete for the mobile space and any third party building such solutions will use basebands with ARM-cores and normal third party Silicon-IP GPUs. AMD also got rid of their MIPS-based network processors a good while ago. Those building MIPS network processors also do their own architectures (designs) and only license the ISA/Patents. They do things like 16-core 64-bit MIPS processors. Sigma Designs is one company that uses MIPS IP-cores with PowerVR graphics. Some also use Vivante IP/synthesizable GPUs. No different to ARM here except maybe less choice in the market and that it is up to Qualcomm or Broadcom to ship cores with Adreno or Broadcom Videocore/Xilleon. They won't be delivered as IP cores.
Also while Broadcom and Qualcomm greatly build on and enhanced their custom design (gpus) from AMD designs that where not exactly Radeon based but other custom designs to develop them into to highly developed and fast gpus, for example nVidia didn't really do that by building "geforce-based" gpus on Tegra where it is greatly under powered and the wrong design for mobiles pretty much. AMD gpus would be disastrous to scale down too. Plus they can sell x86/x64 CPUs / APUs with AMD GPUs for the Android tablet market or Tablet PC market already. They have no reason to go ARM or MIPS (again) just as Intel has no reason to go back to ARM (XScale). They might for servers, but not clients. They can deliver other solutions based on their existing tech there. Reply
Guspaz - Friday, May 11, 2012 - linkMIPS doesn't make the SoC, just the CPU. There's nothing stopping anybody from putting a PowerVR GPU into an SoC with a MIPS CPU.
Think about it this way: ARM makes the Cortex A9, but they don't make any chips. nVidia makes the Tegra, TI makes the OMAP, Samsung makes the Exynos, Apple makes the A series, etc. The same thing is true here with MIPS. They just give you a set of blueprints for a CPU and you make it yourself. Reply
sheh - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkI had the impression all those routers were running ARM. What's that about no multithreading on ARM? In terms of something like Intel's Hyperthreading?
BTW, "upto" -> "up to". Reply
Arnulf - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkMost use MIPS chips (something along the lines of an R4000 relative). Reply
Jaybus - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkYes, I believe so. ARM has only test-and-set, etc primitive instructions for atomic operations, meaning the OS is essentially performing all aspects of multithreading and context switches are expensive. Unlike x86, it has no hardware allowing for fast context switching. Reply
sheh - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkEven a Pentium 1 (if not even 486es or 386es, although with some missing useful instructions) can do preemptive multithreading fine, so it seems unlikely modern ARM CPUs are incapable of that much. There are also multi-core ARMs which by definition are multithreaded, so the article must be referring to something more elaborate, no? Reply
quadrivial - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkMIPS licensees have some beastly processors designed for networking. One example company is Netlogic
Interestingly, AMD had a MIPS license and may still have one as the company that purchased the MIPS division in 2006 (back when AMD was selling several divisions to make ends meet) already had a MIPS license. Reply
Penti - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkAMD's Alchemy MIPS line ended up with just that company NetLogic Microsystems via RMI. It is totally unremarkable and pointless if they are still a MIPS licensee or not, there are several x86-licenses not used too. Intel is still (ARM11/ARM7) a ARM licensee too. They would still need to license the synthesizeable IP-cores if they don't like to make their own architecture/design. MIPS doesn't list AMD as a licensee however. Broadcom itself has some impressive MIPS designs and happen to own Netlogic. Reply
quadrivial - Friday, May 11, 2012 - linkI agree with you on almost everything.
The big game changer here is a new focus on mobile combined with non-competitive chips. AMD has a game plan for laptops (trinity). AMD has a plan for desktop and servers (piledriver).
What is AMD's move for tablets and smartphones? The best current option is the 28nm shrink of Brazos. That chip will be a possibility for tablets, but it will be too power hungry for phones. A redesign for lower power is too time-consuming (a couple of years). The better option could be to pair an existing CPU with an existing GPU. The Brazos GPU would work and, as a bonus, would be very competitive even if the processor launched in a few months (and adding another shader array wouldn't be too difficult). On the CPU side, an already-designed MIPS processor could be a great match. Power consumption and die size would decrease while performance would remain about the same (future integration of x86 like that done with Loongson would be possible if desired). In addition, companies that are skeptical of the x86 label on their mobile products would be satisfied.
The question seems to become one of "what's the cost of a buy-in?" Reply
Penti - Saturday, May 12, 2012 - linkThey have chips and chips coming that is just fine for Tablet PCs including x86 Android tablets. Intel's work should prove useful there. Remember the iPad 3gen has a 42.5 Whr battery. That is more then low end laptops or ultraportables like 11" MBAir. They don't need phone IP they only look at ARM for server use as I said in some other post under this article. They already sold off their mobile gpus to Qualcomm and Broadcom and just shrinking their GCN design wouldn't really work if they like to do it in a few hundreds mW. Nvidia isn't terribly successful doing the same. GPUs that ATi and AMD sold where designs aimed at that market. AMD only needs to compete against Atom chips with PowerVR-graphics here. AMD has no interest in emulating x86 in software like the Chinese that has no Intel x86 license. They might want to run ARM-binaries in Android like Intel's platform though. Remember the manufacturing arm of AMD Global foundries already manufactures ARM processors for other companies and is an ARM licensed manufacturer. Brazos is manufactured at TSMC and AMD is already moving towards real synthesizable x86-cores. Intel is busy manufacturing their own stuff. There are no MIPS-processors design for AMD's GF plants really. Foundries is important here. When it came to Godson and Loongson they where manufactured by a MIPS licensed plant even if they where custom designs. When you choose a design that is ready it needs to be tooled for the specific fab. That's why players like Nvidia stuck with 40nm LP and LPG a long while.
Look at AMD's upcoming Tamesh as far as tablets and thin and low power ultra-portables is concerned. They are looking at integrating GCN instead of the current Brazos Evergreen/VLIW-5.
Designing a low power CPU would be far easier then to employ a new team of a few hundred engineers to build a new GPU-architecture just for a flawed MIPS/Mobile solution they don't need. AMD already has a two track approach and designs two different x86-64 processor cores/designs. One of which is highly synthesizable and low-powered. They only has one GPU-architecture track however. So they can already target what they need and spends their resources wisely. APU's is where they are heading and they have no reason to deviate they need to concentrate on making those great. These MIPS-technologies cores isn't even proven designs. The Chinese has their own designs on the devices running Android. AMD doesn't need to target phones just because Intel does or Freescale (ex Motorola) does and so on. A tablet does fine with a sub-5W APU. 50 Whr battery divided by 5W is just 10 hrs of computing as far as the SoC is concerned add in all the peripherals and it is still easy to hit the magic about 10 hrs. For certain uses. A SoC idling at 2-3 W and a screen using 5 Watts at max brightness get you longer then most ultraportables. That is laptop sizes machines. If they can do better great, don't think most OEM's care enough though. No need for sub-1W there. It's not really competing against ARM-machines if it is running Windows or x86-Android. It can hit the tablet form factor of those ARM-tablets any ways. Those wishing to run phones on x86 has Intel to turn to in the next year or so. You will see larger chips running tablets though. AMD can compete fine with Atom/Nextgen-Atom there. It is still a potential market of millions of units. Millions more when you factor in embedded market and low-end laptops which share the design. Reply
quadrivial - Saturday, May 12, 2012 - linkAMD doesn't need to shrink its GCN design. Mobile GPU design is doing what desktop GPU design has already done (at a slightly accelerated pace and with some of the experimentation being unneeded as it was already done as well). Nvidia used an older GPU model with some newer efficiencies added for Tegra2/3. AMD's older/smaller designs (such as an 80 shader VLIW5 core from Brazos) are very similar to the "new" and "innovative" designs such as the Mali 6xx, Adreno 3xx, SGX6xx, etc. There's no need for AMD to spend too much money or resources to reinvent the wheel for either x86 or MIPS-based chips (MIPS has standard "slots" to drop-in GPU's and other co-processors). AMD need only modify an existing design (though the possibility of using a new architecture still exists).
AMD already does x86 emulation. They don't call it that and keep the ISS to themselves, but all the complex x86 instructions are decoded (actually re-encoded) into another instruction set (so-called micro-ops) which then allow a RISC architecture that hardware emulates them. The advantage of AMD doing such with MIPS is twofold. The first is that AMD has all the x86 experts and raw IP, so unlike China, AMD has a much better chance of making the hardware execute at the same rate as current "x86 only" chips. The second is that adding another architecture (MIPS) as a superset of x86 means that the superset architecture gains wherever x86 falls short and still incurs no penalties. That is to say one could run an x86 OS and then run x86 code, but MIPS code made for MIPS only chips (specifically low power chips where decoder units use too much power) would also run on the x86 chips. This gives a clear path to migration from x86 to the better architecture (and with the current ARM scare, that's a huge marketing point).
AMD has stated quite clearly that there future's in mobile. Giving up the biggest mobile market (when there's still no "winner") isn't good strategy.
AMD is not tied to any fabrication process (the sold the remaining shares in GF). AMD only goes with whoever is cheapest while meeting the required specifications. MIPS designs have been proofed on 28nm TSMC (Brazos is 40nm TSMC fabrication, and the current 28nm GPU designs are made with TSMC in mind as well). The idea that MIPS would release designs that "aren't proven" is not completely logical. AMD and Intel can launch "unproven designs" because they design them and then sell them. MIPS designs, but relies on other companies to license and make the chips. If the company's engineers don't like the samples or design (not a group that is likely to be affected by a "MIPS inside" logo), then they can't turn a profit (for this reason, in addition to their reputation in the market, they have huge incentive to make good designs).
AMD has a chance with Brazos, but not beyond tablets. Even in the tablet market, there's the same problem that Intel is facing. Atom was forced to lengthen the pipeline to reduce decode power consumption, but that also made for branch prediction and performance penalties. In addition, Intel was forced to have only one core (two with HT). The net effect is that Krait (and presumably A15) with 2 real cores each having better coremark/MHz have better performance while using less power. AMD will face huge performance per watt issues when going against either ARM or MIPS (an issue that won't ever completely disappear as long as x86 is used and will continue to be significant for a couple more fab sizes past 28nm). Reply
Penti - Sunday, May 13, 2012 - linkHardware is not emulation, Loongson does hardware accelerated QEMU x86 emulation. It only does it that way because software projects doesn't need to worry about the semicompanies going after them. A x86 front end is always an x86 front end. It's the decode hardware they are not allowed to build. There is still a similar front end on RISC or VLIW cpus. You don't design cpus by putting together a few TTLs or ALU chips any more.
Scaling down AMD gpus makes them perform awful that was the only point and they still are quiet different to tilebased GPUs or their mobile drivers. An AMD GPU with just a few SPs can be outperformed by todays mobile gpus. AMD isn't trying to do anything under tablets and thats fine, I'm not sure what your trying to get at. I'm saying they shouldn't target anything less and they already has two separate CPU designs going on. Two cores is enough for them. It's more then Intel has for x86 almost considering there hasn't been a real architectural update to Atom yet. AMD is already designing new low power cpu architecture (Jaguar core) and a separate and different server/desktop architecture (Steamroller-line). AMD has no reason to go cooking VLIW-5/ARM or VLIW-5/MIPS chips regardless of who fabs them. They would have much less work saying to produce ARM with GF physical IP and Mali-gpus and just support a SoC that has all the software and tools done from the partners already. Not much use for it either. But others can do that and do much cooler stuff. Design/fab choice needs to happen a few years in advance though as you use tools / libraries aimed at a particular fab and process. That is why they can only fab Brazos at TSMC and Trinity at a couple of GF plants and so on. Even a highly synthesizable design requires a lot of work to move to another fab to do a tapeout for a totally different process with different transistors and fab specific tools and libraries. You don't shop around in the middle of a product cycle. Even old style die-shrink takes a lot, something like Ivy-Bridge even more (3D-transistors) and move over to another fab and use other tools even more.
Many MIPS-vendors are like Qualcomm (a MIPS-vendor too) with Krait their own custom design, fabs with licenses also has their own designs based on the physical IP from MIPS/ARM for that matter. I'm sure the new mips designs will be great as MCUs. What ISA they speak is essentially meaningless as long as the tools (compiler, platform etc) supports it. A current 80 SP VLIW-5 AMD GPU uses more power then a 4/quad core Cortex A15 + Mali-400 MP4 overclocked + on-package DRAM together. RMI even used a Mali-GPU with the ex AMD MIPS design and I'm sure AMD could even license it for an mobile x86 SoC. If they really wanted to. They at least has no reason to start developing a mobile gpu/drivers. Their expertise in the field is found at Qualcomm and Broadcom today. It's substantial work to make a redesign of their architecture, write drivers suitable that performs good and it is really needed to target really low powered SoCs. There is no reason to disparage against x86 here, the 2007 Atom architecture made it into phones just fine a newer with updated architecture handles multicore just fine. ARM designs aren't made with 100 000 transistors any more. AMD only need to compete against Atom tablets and laptops here. They are not planning on selling any mobile (phone) chips. Intel will eventually do that again (the first Blackberrys used embedded 386-processsors for that matter) in some real way. AMDs Jaguar core will have other frontend and decode hardware then Steamroller and Piledriver for that matter. Features doesn't make the GPUs alike at all for that matter. Remember AMD didn't sell off their (now) Adreno gpus until 2008 they where very well aware of the market they divested from. If they would like to have done mobile they would had continue selling their IP to Qualcomm and others. Would have partnered with someone if they wanted to direct their own mobile SoC with their own then mobile gpus.
You seem to forget that that x86 has surpassed almost everything, it performance better then the advance RISC-chips with SIMD and hw-virtualization or for that matter EPIC. It also does quite well as far as embedded solutions are concerned. Compilers perform great with x86 too. (Intel MIC/Larrabee uses 50 RISCy Pentium cores, 2007-era Atom is down to ARM-levels in terms of power consumption with Medfield which is a true SoC with gpu/video-encode|decode/ISP/Memory controller/IO). Intel's chips aimed at tablets will have a higher power consumption though.There is were AMD comes in nowhere else. Adding MIPS in the front-end would be useless here the firmware situation would be awful. The cpu would still speak AMD's macroops nothing else internally. Next year you will have dual-core "Medfield" Atom by just a die-shrink basically for that matter. That is what 28nm Krait is up against. Not the past.
If AMD does anything significant it is to offer ARMv8 64-bit server SoC's.
There are plenty of winners in the mobile field. It's dominated by companies such as TI, Qualcomm, Broadcom, Freescale, Renesas, Samsung, ST-Ericsson (STMicro plus old EMP-group) and so on. They have literally made billions and billions of chips. If they (AMD) can't do stuff better then domestic Chinese tech companies that turns out ARM and MIPS solutions they should of course stay out from doing the same thing and trying to compete with the same stuff. There are 2-3 really big fabless mobile SoC manufacturers already that dominates the market. We don't need AMD to come to the table when their old tech and sold off tech is already powering those businesses that succeeded. I would for that matter love for Intel to design their own gpus for the mobile market/SoC but they reasonably can't. AMD did and sold their business doing it with much success following that technology. They have no reason to start over fighting bigger fabless businesses with their old technology powering them. When you exit something you quite for a long while, even if you like to come back. Reply
obiwanbill - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkWhat is "OTT streaming?
Maybe ... "Over the ??"
My reco would be this ... Since you are PA (posting articles) and basically anybody, AAUASL (at any understanding and skill level), reads your articles ... on TFUOAA (the first use of an acronym) you should really include the FT (full text) for the acronym.
I know, you MNUTAA (might not use the acronym again) in the article, but like others reading this PA (particular article), for many it is getting close to reading jibberish. You know, TBITH (the bar is too high) and many won't understand the article and thereby reduce their visits to your site because they simply won't understand the content.
My nickel. (Pennies aren't made in Canada anymore so I can't share 2 cents)
OB (Obiwanbill) Reply
ganeshts - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - link(Over The Top Streaming)
Apologize for the oversight. Reply
obiwanbill - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkI usually let these go, but, since I am giving feedback today ...
On the first page, 3rd paragraph, "Betweem"
You can delete this post after you fix the typo.
OB Reply
CrankUpThePowerIgor - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkWe have 32 bit cores?
Phones need 64 bit as much as they need 4 cores, but I'm sure it would sell ;) Reply
jjj - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkYou keep mentioning die area but never list some actual numbers (or maybe i missed those?). Die are wise it is amusing that they only compare to A15 .Since it seems that it can't clock as high as A15 it's not a fair comparison.The 2 don't target the same markets anyway so w/e.
The lower clocked core(s) solution sounds way too much like Nvidia's 4+1 ,wonder if they'll have anything to say about that.
"it looks likely that the architecture of choice in the mobile / tablet space will become a two way shootout between ARM and x86"
Unless China decides to go with it's own ISA and then things will get a bit more complicated. Reply
bji - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkThat is a terrible marketing name. Reply
bji - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkAm I really reading that right? Are those memory controllers really that small? Sounds barely visible to the naked eye. Reply
ganeshts - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkYes, they are really small. Usually, there are some peripherals around them on the die, and then, there is the packaging which makes it visible to the eye :) Reply
metafor - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkIt should be noted that Krait is on the 28LP node currently and that corresponds to its frequency of 1.5GHz. ARM's A15 numbers on 28LP are around ~2GHz (OMAP 5430 being the primary example). Reply
ganeshts - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkWe can't have too many inferences from the frequency of operation.
With appropriate choice of libraries, usage of low Vt cells etc., Qualcomm could have probably gotten Krait to run at 2 GHz had they wished. It probably means that Qualcomm is satisfied with 1.5 GHz for their target market. ARM's A15 numbers will vary widely, and the OMAP 5430 is just one case..
We should actually compare operating frequency with the same set of libraries / same process node / same operating corner, but different vendors quote different circumstances.. So, it is not easy to make an apples-to-apples comparison. Reply
Daniel Egger - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkI'm really not sure you're all getting the point here with all the ARM comparison. MIPS is not even trying (at least not hard) to get into the smartphone game. MIPS is a really strong player in the consumer grade network equipment market -- think WLAN APs and routers, DSL Modems, Mifis, etc.. There's almost no ARM or x86 anywhere to be found but since networking speeds are ever increasing an architecture update is sorely needed!
You can compare MIPS and ARM and x86 (and if you're serious about it you'd also include Freescale) as much as you'd like but the matter of fact is: Each of these architecture has at least one weak spot that disqualifies it for some market segments:
- Most ARM based processors have lousy I/O possibilities (crappy or no network, no PCIe)
- Most MIPS implementations do not have powerful GPUs and CPU performance is not the best
- x86 needs too many external components and it is effectively only available from one vendor and non-synthesizable
- Freescale (PPC) implementations also do not have powerful GPUs, are too power hungry and far too expensive for most uses Reply
ganeshts - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkOh! MIPS is definitely trying to get a toehold in the smartphone market. In fact, I looked at a few of their smartphones in their HQ (all being sold in China).
The drawbacks you indicate are not a problem with the processor IP. Rather, it is the SoC vendor's choice on what peripheral IPs are integrated along with the processor. Reply
Penti - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkNaw they are not really trying, the Ingenic chip the Chinese devices uses is a custom design by the Chinese firm Ingenic. Not CPUs designed by MIPS Technologies. Those has to compete with Chinese as well as cheap semi-local Taiwanese ARM-designs with ARM RTL-cores and embedded baseband too. Nothing much happening there. Not from Mips Tech standpoint any way. The MIPS SoCs can use the same third party synthesizeable IP GPUs, video engines as the ARM counterparts and so on. But don't expect much in the form of baseband modems on MIPS processors. Smartphones run fine with either x86, ARM or MIPS though. Android has support for them all. A few years ago there were some other architectures involved in the business too. Let's see if anybody uses MIPS Technologies IP cores to build phones first before shouting anything. We won't really have the same situation if you can't use RTL-cores at any fab and multiple vendors delivering solutions on that. It's hard to compete if there is just one vendor with their own custom designs. Freescale will continue their i.MX ARM line for phones/tablets. ARM is taking over the whole CE field including TVs, blu-ray players and so on too for that matter. Still some good MIPS-designs around though. But there are good designs of most stuff around. Tools and software certainly would draw you to ARM though. Reply
Daniel Egger - Saturday, May 12, 2012 - linkThe problem is: Maybe MIPS just woke up but as a matter of fact this market is long gone for them since they don't have the force to push anything around. Intel is a much bigger company trying to achieve the very same thing but they're barely moving forward.
Of course one is free to assembly SoCs with MIPS cores but why would one do that? Most of the auxiliary ICs needed for the completely picture are using ARM-optimized or ARM-only interfaces so there're almost no components to choose from while the generic ones (utilizing PCI(e) or USB) use far too much energy and/or space and are usually not synthesizable. Then there is the price issue: MIPS SoCs for mobile devices will be low volume at the beginning and thus quite expensive compared to ARM devices. And then there's the tooling and compatibility issue: The MIPS hardware support for e.g. Android is rather limited and alpha quality in most areas while ARM and even x86 are quite mature. And then there's the market compatibility issue: Good software needs natively compiled code to perform well, ARM is the default here and x86 will bring an ARM emulator to the table; MIPS can't do snitch here...
My prediction: Maybe we will see some insane multi-chip prototypes or even one or two (likely Chinese) SoCs and systems based on that for absolute low end phones but they'll go nowhere in the market.
I'll be far more interesting to see how long it'll take e.g. Ralink to pick up the Aptiv Series for their WLAN SoCs. ;) Reply
Scipio Africanus - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkFor anyone who is old enough and fortunate enough to remember the SGI workstations, its pretty sad to see what's become of MIPS based machines. My college was an SGI shop and our 6-CPU R4400 SGI Octane server was an awesome sight to behold in the days of Pentium 1 and 2. So were the Indy and Indigo workstations where we would play GLQuake. Reply
martinw - Friday, May 11, 2012 - linkOctane was a dual socket workstation, not a 6 socket server. Perhaps you are thinking of a Challenge server?
I remember when the first R4k and the first R10k SGI machines came out - amazing performance at the time... Reply
Scipio Africanus - Friday, May 11, 2012 - linkYou're right, it was a Challenge L server now that I think about it.
During the introduction tour, we saw a real time rendering of a shark. Of course it looked cartoonish by any standard today but the fact that the motion was fluid and it was being rendered real time was jaw dropping. Seeing that and be awestruck is stuck in my memory permanently. Reply
iwod - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - link1. I am pretty sure MIPS is older then ARM. While the article points to ARM being older.
2. Do this news IPs have something similar to big.LITTLE?
3. Performance / Mhz doesn't matter, Performance / Watts does.
4. Apart from MIPS being used in Network equipment, and some set top box, and some Tablet. There are no new market that are using them. Network Market uses them solely because they dont want to reinvest in software and hardware. ( Hence why our Router is still dog slow ).
And I also dont understand why Tablet Maker would want to use MIPS instead. How much cheaper is it?
5. Even NAS moved to ARM based SoC ( Kirkwood ) instead of MIPS many years ago.
6. Set Top Box maker are now moving to wards ARM solution since there are many more ready made solution.
So yea, What exactly does MIPS have an advantage? Unlike Intel who could damn well push Atom into 14nm Node and just Brute Force winning by Manufacturing Technology. Reply
jamyryals - Friday, May 11, 2012 - linkNice article Ganesh, I learned a lot. Keep up the good work. Reply
Avenkidur - Saturday, May 12, 2012 - linkIf process technology plateaus, or even slows, and we stop harvesting the benefits of shrinkage, power efficiency, speed, and cost -- could it be an opportunity for MIPS and Micro-Kernels? Technology is at the point where the best design is allocating all resources to the computer to think for itself instead of trying to guess ahead?
They both seemed ahead of their time, elegant in theory but challenged to deliver on performance on an open playing field.
ARM is doing well primarily because it is more power efficient than x86 and it crossed the threshold of good enough for smartphones. MIPS is fundamentally even more power efficient than ARM, and it will easier scale to more cores.
I mentioned Micro-Kernels because I feel it is the same design philosophy, just in software. They've got an opportunity coming up to be a single OS that spans a broad range of targeted usages -- they can securely enable and disable drivers on the fly, and the core codebase is not polluted with legacy needs so the whole thing can be secure, while rapidly iterating into new possible features (it's not just sound and video now. Multiple microphones, NFC, motion sensing, computer vision --- who knows what else might be designed in at a deep level.)
iOS is only 5 years old, and you feel it: on what the new devices can't do (fast-switching instead of multi-tasking, that animated lag coverup), on the old devices that can't keep up under the updates that have features bundled in they can't use, the need to restart to update the OS, a software crash can take the whole system down, the multitude of ways to hack into a strangers' phone, the extra work necessary just to port one application to AppleTV, iPod/iPhone, iPad, iMac. Reply
Avenkidur - Saturday, May 12, 2012 - linkduh.. I forgot to mention that Micro-Kernels are the best suited to take advantage of multiple cores, which is the first reason I brought them into a post about it maybe being a chance for MIPS to make a dent Reply
xenol - Saturday, May 12, 2012 - linkIt's nice to know that ARM isn't going to be the only 32-bit guy in the microcontroller universe once the 8-bit/16-bit guys start phasing out. I just hope others take MIPS in.
I also guess that depends on whether or not software development tools for Aptiv are up to snuff. Reply
ET - Monday, May 14, 2012 - linkThat's the best article about these processors that I found. I love it that you went to MIPS for clarifications. Reply