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Apple iPad 2 Previewby Anand Lal Shimpi, Brian Klug & Vivek Gowri on 3/12/2011 6:01 AM EST
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Destiny - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkIf Apple iPAD 2, NVIDIA's Tegra 2, TI's OMAP 4 and Samsung's Exynos all use the same Dual Core ARM Cortex A9... why are there performance differences shown in your testing and benchmarks of these products? Reply
StevoLincolnite - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkiPad uses iOS the others use variations of Android with who knows whats loaded in the background.
But the simple reason is different OS's provide different performance characteristics as they handle processes and memory loads differently. Reply
Destiny - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkThank-you for the reply... now my knowledge and processor IQ just went up a notch... : ) Reply
solgae1784 - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkYep. All that hardware specs means nothing if your software can't utilize it. That much is clear even way back in the days. Reply
vol7ron - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkIt's not just due to the OS, it is also due to the other hardware coupled with the A9. For instance, more RAM means application data can be loaded quicker, rather than from the HD. The GPU and screen size/resolution also effect benchmarks - the amount of effect depends on the type of test.
Also the different hardware vendors may have modified some of the firmware instruction sets to make it more efficient.
But that's a big reason why these benchmarks are used, to have some sort of common ground that more accurately compares the different hardware/software combinations. Reply
MonkeyPaw - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkWe also don't know the clocks of the A5. Maybe it's not safe to assume it's running at 1.0ghz? Reply
Anand Lal Shimpi - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkEr you're very right about that. Geekbench reports 900MHz :)
Take care,
Anand Reply
tipoo - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkhttp://www.apple.com/ca/ipad/specs/
Its 1GHz. Geekbench reports the instantaneous speed, so you'll hear different numbers from that depending on what it ramps its speed down to to save power. Reply
dagamer34 - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkIt's all about the OS at that point, just like how iOS 4.3 gives 2.5x increase in Javascript performance compared to iOS 4.0 even using the same original iPad. Reply
vol7ron - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkThat isn't the OS, that's the JS engine. Both software, both different roles. Reply
erple2 - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - linkIn the iOS case - they're synonymous. You can't get the "new" browser without also getting the new OS update. Reply
tipoo - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkIn addition to software differences, each company also tweaks the design of the Cortex A9 to their liking. After ARM licences it out they can do pretty much whatever to it. So you might see Qualcomm adding cache, Nvidia doubling the bus, or whatever. Reply
metafor - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - linkARM core licenses do not allow you to modify the CPU design. ARM allows different options when configuring cache size and bus width and co-processors but only with their macro-generator. There's definitely flexibility, but it's not "whatever you want". There are limited flavors if you will of yummy goodness. Reply
Anand Lal Shimpi - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkWhile the underlying architecture between those devices may be similar, there are some differences. For example NVIDIA's Tegra 2 only has a single channel 32-bit LPDDR2 memory interface while TI's OMAP 4 has a dual-channel LPDDR2 memory interface.
Tegra 2 also lacks an MPE (SIMD engine) while the OMAP 4 doesn't.
Take care,
Anand Reply
tipoo - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkI'd be interested in a comparison between all these mobile processors. I understand its difficult since the iPad uses a different OS, but given the numbers where do you think it stands compared to Tegra 2 and the like? Reply
zhill - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkMy understanding is that the ARM Cortex A9 is just an instruction set and architecture specification/chip design. Each company manufactures the actual chips themselves so they can make additional changes at the hardware level such as lithography, voltage, clock frequency, cache sizes etc. So they license the design from ARM, but build the silicon themselves so each design may vary in terms of actual implementation and performance.
Software also certainly makes a difference. Reply
winterspan - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkyou are right to an extent. There are actually two different licenses, a manufacturing license and a "design" license. Basically, if you pay more for the design license, they can make a custom core that implements the ARM Cortex v7 instruction set. This is what Qualcomm does with their Snapdragon. Most of the other guys just have the manufacturing license and this enables mild adjustments, but essentially they all have to use a similar Cortex-A9 core.
Not sure what the Apple cores are... Standard Cortex-A9 or something more custom from Intrinsity/Samsung? Reply
jmmx - Sunday, March 13, 2011 - link"If Apple iPAD 2, NVIDIA's Tegra 2, TI's OMAP 4 and Samsung's Exynos all use the same Dual Core ARM Cortex A9…"
There is more to it than this. The simple fact is they do NOT "use the same Cortex A9." They each user their own implementation of the A9. Additionally, A9 is the core cpu design, but the chips are SoC chips "System on a Chip" That is, they contain a lot more than just the A9 CPU but other non CPU functional units as well.The configuration of these units can significantly affect performance.
This is my understanding of the situation. (Caveat - I am a software engineer not hardware.) Someone out there feel free to correct me if I am mistaken about this. Reply
str1ke007 - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkCan the ipad2 be tetherd to an iphone ?? (so i can use the 3G data i allready pay for rather then paying for another sim/plan) Reply
kmmatney - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkThere is no reason why you couldn't, and this is what I plan on doing. However I would like to know if the map and GPS apps work well on an iPad without 3G. Do you need to get a 3G for the GPS to work properly? Reply
name99 - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkDepends on what you mean by "properly".
In the city iPad location services work astonishingly well. God knows how they do it, I guess the SkyHook database is just huge.
On the other hand, if you plan to go hiking with your iPad, you might be disappointed.
One way to test this (if you have a mac) is to see how well your mac provides location. Grab a location-aware app (google maps in Safari is an easy choice) and ask it to locate you. (Note that you need WiFi to be on for this to work usefully, so if you're doing it at a desktop mac, make sure WiFi is on.)
If you have a portable, try it in a few different places. Are you happy with the results? Because that's about what you'll get from iPad without GPS. Reply
Mr Alpha - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkI don't believe it can. According to another famous Steve Jobs email iOS doesn't support getting internet access via tethering. On the other hand iOS 4.3 added hotspot to iPhone 4, which you should be able to use to get internet to a WiFi only iPad. Reply
solgae1784 - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkIt looks like AT&T will allow iPad 3G to be used as a personal hotspot. Not sure about Verizon.
http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=19295&cd... Reply
ATC - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkYes you can. I have an iPhone 4 with 4.3 installed and with the new HotSpot feature of iOS 4.3 you can do just that. However, in the US my understanding is that you need a tethering data plan and AT&T or Verizon will charge you more to activate the HotSpot feature. Of course you can always get around that by JB your iPhone.
I'm in Canada and the HotSpot feature works here for free and works great (I've been using it for the past 3 days to share my 6GB data with my iPhone). But there are a few things to consider when doing this. One, your iPhone's battery runs down much faster (it's using 3G data and Wifi at the same time). Second, while I haven't tested this, I think you lose location service/GPS on your iPad because only the 3G iPad has a GPS (I could be wrong though). Reply
3DoubleD - Monday, March 14, 2011 - linkI would be cautious here. I bought a Kindle with only WiFi thinking I could just tether to Android phone for internet access on the go... I was WRONG.
In the case of the Kindle, the WiFi chip does not support connecting to non-router based wireless networks. So the Kindle cannot connect to any wireless network that you created with your phone, tablet, or laptop.
So, the answer to your question is dependent on the wireless chipset used in the iPad. My recommendation is to find proof that someone has successfully tethered an iPhone with an iPad2 before wasting $800. Reply
silverblue - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkDefinite improvement there; can't wait for HDR and more shader effects such as bump mapping to appear in mobile games. I knew years ago that the SGX was capable of AA but it's not something we've really seen up until now.
I wonder how much faster this implementation is as compared to the SGX540 found in Hummingbird? Reply
rish95 - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkWell Imagination Tech says a dual core SGX543 is over 4X faster than the SGX 540.
So even though the iPad is at 1024 x 768 you can still expect 60% higher frame rate, but the power per pixel is much higher. Reply
tipoo - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkWell that's disappointing. I hardly expected it to replace a dedicated camera, but with an iPhone 4-ish camera and the processing power it has it could have allowed for some neat things. But if the camera sucks, meh.
Also, whats that vintage camera shown in all the test shoots? Reply
Sarah_ - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkIt's a Kine-Exakta II, made in 1948 :)
The one in the picture is not functional but it definitely looks cool!
http://captjack.exaktaphile.com/Kine-Exakta%20II%2... Reply
tipoo - Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - linkThanks! Reply
rom0n - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkThe reason why Ipad webloading tests may be better is that it is missing flash. It is not rendering the full web page.
Unless anandtech is using initial Xoom firmware without flash. The new android 3.0.1 brings Flash 10.2 as well as other performance and stability improvements. Reply
tipoo - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkI was going to bring that up too. If the Xoom has Flash enabled, its numbers are more impressive. Reply
Anand Lal Shimpi - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkThe test is run apples-to-apples, there's no Flash enabled :)
Take care,
Anand Reply
VivekGowri - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkApples to Androids? Reply
arthur449 - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkzing! Reply
iwod - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkI really hope the A9 is true. Since there are reports they are Dual Core A8. ( Yeah i know ARM doesn't have that basic design ). But if we get A9 now, there is every chance the Apple A6 will be A15 plus Power VR 6. ( The same as Sony Ericsson ) on there next iPhone / iPad.
But why apple only said 2x CPU Power when clearly Dual Core 1Ghz A9 should be at least 2 - 3 times faster. And test results doesn't always show the IPC improvement in A9. Reply
winterspan - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkThere is no Cortex-A8 multi-core ... Its either a Cortex-A9 or a modified custom-core like Qualcomm's Snapdragon that is a bastard child of A8 and A9 that supports SMP.
Given the fact that despite the Intrinsity/PA SEMI purchases, the iPad/iPhone ARM chips have all looked like standard Samsung ARM parts, I highly doubt the iPad 2 is running a custom core. It is far more likely it is a standard Cortex-A9, with some custom power IC and other stuff.
Regarding the benchmarks, there are many other examples where going from Cortex-A8 to dual-core Cortex-A9 doesn't show >100% improvements... Reply
metafor - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - linkBecause 2x the cores does not translate to 2x the performance under all but the tiniest fraction of circumstances. Reply
tipoo - Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - linkThey were probably being conservative, as very few apps will scale 100% performance wise across both cores. Reply
LeTiger - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - link"Other hardware chances are the addition of front and rear facing cameras for FaceTime and taking pictures, but unfortunately, they seem to be pieces lifted from the iPod touch and nothing near the iPhone 4's 5 megapixel shooter."
"chances" might actually trying to be "changes"?
Just a thought. Thanks again for the write ups lately, It felt ridiculously relieving to get Anand's take on the new mbp and ipad line, I felt like I couldn't trust any other news site's objectivity until I had the scoop with Anandtech :) (and as always, this is the only place I go for legitimate reviews with ACTUAL analysis instead of spec-chimping)
Keep em' coming! Reply
Griswold - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKPL9CnQVG8&fea...
There are reports of light bleeding through the edges of the ipad2. See video above.
Would be cool if you look into this and get to the bottom of it. I dont want to buy one if its a serial flaw. Reply
sean.crees - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkI really don't understand the complaints with the camera's. You're never going to get "good" quality photo's from a form factor that flat. Physics just doesn't allow for it with current technology. If your getting a tablet for the camera then your an idiot.
It's obvious the only reason the cameras exist at all is for facetime, which they seem perfectly fitted to work with. If you want to take pictures, then buy a DSLR. Reply
Griswold - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkThats nonsense. The iphone4 (and many other smartphones) prove that its possible to produce good quality pictures. Good is not professional level, mind you.
However, even if the pictures the iphone4 shoots are not "good" by your standards, there is no reason to sell junk cameras like this in the ipod touch and ipad2 only to come back later this year / next year with a new model that "magically" is capable of doing much better - there is not the slightest doubt it will pan out this way.
They do this on purpose. Thats the beef people have with it.
But yea, I would never use my ipad to take pictures, I use my iphone for it, or my dedicated camera if I have it on me. But Facetime with something better than VGA or a backside shooter with more than a one megapixels isnt too much to ask... again, the issue here is not primarily the lense (though, that will suck too). Reply
solipsism - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkThe iPhone 4 dimensions are thicker than the iPad 2 and the display on the iPhone 4 are fused in a way that make it thinner. That isn't to say there is not enough height in the iPad 2 where the cameras are located, but your assumption, in and of itself, is flawed as you did not consider that actual internal room in your presumption. Reply
Death666Angel - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkOkay, so because Apple decided to make the iPad2 so thin they couldn't even put a halfway decent camera into it, we shouldn't complain? This is exactly why I personally do not want an Apple product (although the iPhone4 does have a great display I miss that on some android phones):
with Apple, function follows form, they decided to make the iPad2 thinner (was there a call from the Apple community that the iPad is too thick?), but in return they couldn't (if what you say is true) fit a decent camera into the thing. And the (potential) customer is supposed to shut up about that and not complain. Reply
ltcommanderdata - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkThe complaint was that the original iPad wasn't comfortable to hold for longer periods of time. Making it thinner, lighter, and curvier was a move to address this.
Quoting Anand:
"The iPad 2 is slightly lighter but easier to hold than the previous generation. Laying in bed and reading is probably where the difference becomes most apparent. The gentle curvature running around the edge makes the in-hand feel surprisingly different, as does the considerably thinner profile. I'm actually shocked at how dramatic the difference is."
Yes apparently a compromise had to be made. No doubt Apple actually considers that they optimized on the side of function. ie. the thinner iPad 2 actually functions as an ebook reader now that it's comfortable to hold. Given the typical use case for the iPad will be holding and reading something rather than taking high-quality still pictures, this is probably the best choice for the majority of users. Reply
Juzcallmeneo - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkRetina is nice..better than an old LCD. Nothing close to as beautiful as Samsung's Super AMOLED (Plus).
I see many people trying to make excuses for the cheap plastic Apple tries to call a camera..but there is no real excuse except that it's just another part of their money making strategies. I know that these devices will never come close to my 7D, but it could at least be slightly better than almost worthless. IMO with cameras this cheap they might as well have not put any on.
I feel that if Nokia can have at least a decent quality camera in a phone several months ago then it should be easy to replicate. (Nokia N8)
The thinness is definitely better for holding, it just scares me how flimsy it might be. Reply
Seurahepo - Sunday, March 13, 2011 - link> Nothing close to as beautiful as Samsung's Super AMOLED (Plus)
I'm a bit puzzled. The Samsung phones I have seen have mostly been disappointing when it comes to the screen quality. The image is fuzzy and it seems almost like there is a template in between the screen and the glass, generating a strange patterns. I assume this to be because of the pentile layout, but I cannot be sure.
Maybe the effect goes away with higher PPI, but currently I can just say that PPI of a traditional RGB layout is not directly comparable to PPI of a Pentile RG BG, which Samsung seems to be using.
> if Nokia can have at least a decent quality camera in a phone several months ago then it should be easy to replicate. (Nokia N8)
Nokia N8 does have a decent camera. The thickness of the camera module of N8 is about double of iPad 2. In optics thickness really matters.
So yeah, it would be easy to replicate by doubling the thickness of the iPad 2 at least where the camera module is. But I fail to see the reasoning. Does iPad 2 really need that to be a good product?
The raison d'être of N8 is to be a phone with real pocket camera like quality, that is not what iPad2 is about, far from it. Therefore it would be quite foolish to try to optimize the camera.
I agree the cameras could be better, but the fantasy about N8 (or even iPhone 4) quality camera for the iPad 2 is a bit crazy. Reply
NCM - Monday, March 14, 2011 - linkDeath666Angel (!) writes:
"Okay, so because Apple decided to make the iPad2 so thin they couldn't even put a halfway decent camera into it, we shouldn't complain? This is exactly why I personally do not want an Apple product..."
Surely even a moment's reflection would make obvious that a 10" class tablet is wildly unsuited by its form factor for anything but desperation photography. The iPad 2's camera is there for FaceTime video, with still photography enabled only because they can.
Contrast this with the iPhone 4, which is very usable for photography has a surprisingly capable camera. Reply
rish95 - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkWell on paper the dual core SGX543MP2 graphics processor is about twice as fast as the Tegra 2's GeForce ULV. I'd like to see how that plays out in real life. I'm worried that iOS's 60 FPS cap may skew the results of some less intensive tests.
And since the iPad's screen res is lower than the Xoom, you can expect an even bigger margin. Reply
ltcommanderdata - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkJust divide out whatever whatever graphical benchmark result by resolution to get a relative power per pixel measure.
On this subject, hopefully Anand can update this Preview with GLBenchmark results as soon as they are available rather than waiting for the Review. This will be a very interesting result and I think the SGX543MP2 can potentially be 3 times faster than Tegra 2 if the drivers are well optimized. Reply
slickr - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkPlease Adand could you tell me the point of this device?
You can't carry it in the pocket, its not a gaming device, its not a texting/writing device, its not a office device, its worse than PC and laptops for everything and too big to have over a phone and not to mention no phone connectivity.
So it seems to me its just a huge, bulky web surfing device and even mobile phones have a better camera so its not good even for pictures. Reply
stealthy - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkThis is exactly the device what I'm seeking. As most of the time in the evening I'm just websurfing/chatting with my girlfriend in Japan or emailing.
I dont need to have a full blown pc to comfortably do this,
The ipad is fully supported by my cable provider. I can program the digital box with the device and watch a second program in parallel to my tv. Easy to follow two soccer matches :)
Apart from that I can control my home domotics system from my couch.
All this is the reason for getting the ipad. Reply
Juzcallmeneo - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkMost people just use it as a toy..or a trend.
The purpose is to bring things like reading books, browsing web, casual games, movies, etc..to a more mobile state than a bulky laptop with a giant keyboard attached. You can easily cradle it in your arms and walk around with it..sit in any position. Smartphones are more mobile, but not as comfortable to use in the sense that the Tablets have nice large screens.
They would be even more useful if they were all built like my new Eee Slate with the Wacom Digitizer technology on it. I do all of my computing on this thing now, especially all graphic & web design. The only downside is the battery life but it's good enough and worth it to have Office pro, CS5, and FL Studio on a tablet. Reply
name99 - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkFor me it's a device for reading technical PDFs. It does this far better than
- a laptop (keyboard gets in the way)
- a kIndle (PDF display is crap for technical PDFs, not to mention SLOW)
- any Android device (faster, nicer screen, apps that handle the details, like margin cropping, well)
If you doesn't do what you need, why not just STFU? I don't run around the web sites for fancy camping equipment saying "Well, who really needs this equipment? Why don't you just stay at home where it is more comfortable?" Reply
CAR67 - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkLOL, thanks for making me laugh.
I always think along the same lines as your reply when people piss and moan about how something is useless to them, so no body else should want one and so it should cease to exist. Reply
Azethoth - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkSpeaking purely of my original iPad :
1) It paid for itself by replacing my NY Times habit at Starbucks with various free news apps (NY Times & BBC being my favorites).
2) It made me fork over $100 for an Economist iPad subscription, doh. I really like the solid reporting they do.
3) It controls both of my Squeezebox Touch music players with nice touch interfaces and glorious album covers ($10 SqueezePad app).
4) Using the Calorie Counter app I have lost 10 pounds in the last 2 months. I could use it on the iPhone in theory but in that small a form factor ... just not gonna happen. Same on my comp, I am just not gonna run to the computer room every time I eat something, especially when not even at home. Another 20 pounds lost and I will be at a healthy weight: priceless.
5) I love reading, a lot. But my place cannot handle more paper books. I have read books using iBooks and the Kindle app. The iPad is fantastic for reading at night or twilight. I even read outside in the Sun, but not with the sun relfecting off the pages. But thats ok, I do not read regular books with the Sun bouncing off their pages either. The only scenario not supported is reading in a nice warm bath: I cannot have my iPad get wet.
6) Home automation. It is a niche thing but the iPad is a breakthrough interface in this arena. I am just getting started but I can control the furnace, a/c and fireplace so far.
7) Free phone calls using skype & wifi.
8) I use a small leather backpack to lug it around along with my coffee mug, water etc.
9) It is a gaming device. My favorites are Plants vs Zombies, Infinity Blade and Osmosis. I have played more games on it than my XBox, although Kinect is changing that. It does not replace PC gaming, but it enables games not possible on the PC. Reply
slickr - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkSo it other words its just an expensive, huge and bulky device just for web surfing.
In better times we would call people that purchase these things stupid, laugh at them for making a bad choice and educate them how to recognize true value for money and make a smarter purchase tomorrow.
Guess times have changed for the worst, where the unacceptable is acceptable and the worthless is cool and trendy.
Whats next they are going to invent a Stone 2.0 with WiFi and an apple picture of the back of it and people are going to shell out hundreds of dollars for the cool rock 2.0.
Amazing, just freaking amazing. Reply
AlexTheUkrainian - Sunday, March 13, 2011 - linkSniff, sniff... can anyone else smell an angry troll?
slickr, I am sure you're just trolling, or deeply jealous, but if not, just buy an iPad and see for yourself. It's frankly a device you can hear about a million times and never get it till you use it. There's just something magical about software always working, having an app for just about everything you can think of, and enjoying superb mobility, etc. Cooking? Just attach it to your kitchen cabinet and watch a video instructing how to make a dish. Taking notes in class - perfect companion! Want to connect to your windows pc remotely from your couch and still enjoy touch screen? Done.
And yes, the games rock. And they'll rock 10 times as much once they learn to use iPad 2's power.
TO ALL OTHERS: I just got hdmi adapter for this and I have to say, it's amazing for gaming! Now I can play and girlfriend can watch on big screen. But it's even better with games that don't require use of touch screen, such as Real Racing which can use just the accelerometer. Sooo recommend it. It's becomes a mobile xbox almost ha Reply
Shadowmaster625 - Monday, March 14, 2011 - linkYeah I'm sure slickr is just jealous. He wants to be a dumb yuppie. Some people live and die by these money black hole devices. As soon as you start paying for something due to its "coolness" factor, it's all over... Bottom line is these are $200 devices. They offer nothing vs an ipod touch, except the ability to hold it a bit further from your face. Reply
Seurahepo - Sunday, March 13, 2011 - linkIs there a problem with the comment system? This comment looks like it was from March 2010. :)
Joking aside, I am not sure what you are comparing iPad with, but it is hard to see how it would be huge and bulky. Sure it is bigger than your cell phone, but it also gives you about seven times the screen area (comparing iPhone and iPad), which makes a big difference to how apps should make the layout and how gestures work.
You claim people purchasing iPads (and other tablets?) are stupid, which would be the better choice for them? Mobile phone? netbook? laptop? something else? Another tablet, just not from Apple?
Web browsing is one thing you can do with it, you can do your mail, you can play games etc. But the main thing is *apps*, which app is the killer app for you, I cannot know, but there are 65 thousand already out there and the number is growing. iPad like tablets is the future platform for a big group for apps. Not Windows PC or even Macs, those are the dinosaurs of the past, post PC-era is here. Reply
vision33r - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkIf it's pointless device to you then why do you bother reading this article and make complaints about it?
Seems you got some anxiety or insecurities to work on.
Same question can be asked about anything in this world.
What's the point with a convertible sports car?
Why do some people use a briefcase and not a backpack? Reply
sean.crees - Sunday, March 13, 2011 - linkMajority of my time lately online seems to be reading web pages, watching video's, checking email, listening to music.
All of which is much more convenient on an Ipad. Notebooks are bulky to walk around with because of the attached keyboard. Smartphones are too small to clearly see what it is your doing. Smartphones may "work", but tablets make it more enjoyable.
So what i end up with is the freedom of a smartphone with the display size of a small notebook. Best of both worlds IMO.
I may not be able to put it in my pocket, but at least i don't need a chair to use it like a laptop. Have you ever tried using a laptop in your hands while you walk around with it? Its incredibly difficult.
While the ipad may not fit in my pocket, its small and light enough that i wouldn't mind just holding it in my hands as i walk around, or tossing it in a backpack/purse, or perhaps even getting a larger pocket sewn into the inside pocket of a jacket. Reply
NCM - Monday, March 14, 2011 - linkOver 15 million buyers seem to have figured out the point of the original iPad, enough to pay $500 or more for one. Rather a lot to ascribe to mass hysteria. Maybe it's something in the water?
Or did we somehow miss the news reports about hordes of disgruntled buyers demanding refunds for their "pointless" devices? Reply
nitrousoxide - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkPlease explain me this: In your XOOM review, it loads AnandTech.com in 603.1ms while it takes 2000+ms in this preview. Have you changed your benchmark suite?
Anyway I believe that Google's Android is simply a waste of hardware power. It's a poorly optimized OS, no matter Gingerbread or Honeycomb. The only way for it to keep up with iOS or Windows Phone is using superfast chips but when that hardware advantage is gone, it stands no chance. Reply
Seurahepo - Sunday, March 13, 2011 - linkYes, they changed back to hand timing, because the results from the Android browser were strange. Reply
name99 - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - link"The iPad 2 maintains full 5 GHz (802.11a/n) support, "
This is not so. As far as I can tell, for example, 5GHz 40MHz channels are not supported. This is the big one. I don't have the kit to test it, but it would not surprise me short guard intervals and some of the other optional protocol niceties that buy you a few percent (to, sometimes many 10s of percent) here and there are also not supported.
More generally, might I make a plea that you institute some sort of standardized benchmark for testing the quality of WiFi (and 3G, though for iPad I care about this less) implementations?
The reason I ask is that
- for reasons I don't understand Apple (quietly and behind the scenes) seems to keep pushing to always have better wireless kit than the competition (eg 3 active antennas in the newest MacBook Pros and Airport Base Station) while the competition lag BUT
- the quality of wireless in these devices is an easy target for improvement right now, adding in more antennas and smarter decoding algorithms.
In other words, it seems to me that an OBVIOUS way for the next great tablet to differentiate itself from iPad2 is through having multiple antennas (both WiFi and 3G) hooked up to competent firmware and OS code, such that it could achieve double or better WiFi bandwidth, and a much more robust WiFi and 3G experience.
It would be nice, if this happens, for AnandTech to be able to verify the truth of the (doubtless exaggerated) statements the marketers will make, and more generally to play the same role here that it has played in SSDs in just pushing awareness of the state of the art forward and not allowing manufacturers to get lazy. (I'd regard, for example, Apple's unwillingness to boost the WiFi here over iPad1 as an example of being lazy because they can get away with it. They have no competition in the tablet space, and it's not something reviewers look at carefully and complain about.) Reply
Seurahepo - Sunday, March 13, 2011 - linkWhile making a better wifi implementation may seem like an obvious way of differentiating from iPad it is far from it. Better networking implementation is very hard to market for the general population. The only viable way seems to be marketing by buzzword, marketing the same buzzword with "better implementation" will be hard.
For the non-geek the speed is often more than enough, they are used to the fact that computers take their time. And even if they found it to be slow, they would not know what is the reason. Reply
Brian Klug - Monday, March 14, 2011 - linkSo the iPad 1 and 2 both only support the long guard interval (65 Mbps) MCS on both 2.4 and 5 GHz channels, with only 20 MHz support.
I consider this "full" mobile support only because the majority of "802.11n" mobile devices do the same thing - 65 Mbps, or in rare circumstances short guard interval 72 Mbps.
Keep in mind, the iPad 1 already was the differentiating product, as it was the first smartphone/tablet that came with 5 GHz support at all. The myTouch 4G and Galaxy S 4G both also have 802.11a/n support with 72 Mbps.
I've definitely been testing/pushing for more/better antenna and connectivity, and it's interesting that Apple chose to essentially keep the same WiFi stack as they had in the previous version. That said, baseband has definitely improved ;)
-Brian Reply
btdvox - Saturday, March 12, 2011 - linkI disagree with your comment on the White iPad, I had a choice between the White 32 and Black 32, and after seeing demo models of both yesterday, it's clear the White looks very cheap, the Service Rep told me it's actually not covered with glass but rather the components of the white macbook and can be prone to staining.
Sure it doesn't show finger prints, but watch any movies, and websites that use dark schemes (Which every movie does and most websites do), even the top bar is black (status bar), and with a black bezel, these components all "seam" together, and even the hardware (things like the light sensor, camera etc, are barely visible).
With the White bezel all these components make the ipad less seamless and I thought the display on the white looked worse, simply because of it's bezel.
The same goes for TV's, would you rather watch a movie on a TV with a white or grey bezel or a glossy black one? I'll always choose glossy blacks, it makes the display look better.
Still pictures suck on the ipad 2, just like they do on the ipod gen 4 but Video is really good, on par with iphone 4! Sucks that they didn't spend the same components on the iPad 2 camera, wish they did!! No autofocus kind of sucks too! Reply
Brian Klug - Monday, March 14, 2011 - linkThat's weird that the apple rep would say those things. The current MacBook is entirely hard plastic, and lacks the matte soft-touch material that used to stain. The current iPad is actually indeed covered in glass the same as the black model, so it will absolutely not stain.
-Brian Reply
podpi - Sunday, March 13, 2011 - linkHey Anand
Let me preface this by saying I'm a huge Anandtech fan, and really trust and appreciate your word and the deep, thorough reviews you do. That's what sets you apart from the other tabloidy, first out, sort of content. They do anything to have content out first. I believe some write the reviews before they test the equipment.
Now, whenever any big product comes out, I may glance at the Engadget/Wired reviews, but I keep checking Anandtech everyday, waiting eagerly in anticipation. The other sites try and up the number of views, so they launch bit by bit and try and draw it out, but also try and be out first with a brief headline-like review. Quality suffers. So I keep checking AT, and waiting for a thorough, unbiased, great reading review. And when it comes out, sometimes up to a week later than the rest. By then the hype had died, down, and it has a chance to come in clean, and see what someone who put the effort in actually thought of the product. The fact that your reviews tend to be a little later show to me how much effort you put in, and how much you care about quality. And this is what I appreciate.
Now, with the iPad 2 review, it seems to be coming in drips and drabs, to try and what appears to be to keep up with the competition? I think it's natural to get into a race with those sites. But how can you win a race against tech-tabloids? If you blend in with the crowd, then there is little differentiation. I don't think you can have best of both. In my opinion, taking your time and giving a full long in-depth review, like a short story, provides a unique, quality characteristic to your reviews, site and brand.
Thanks for the great work.
Terence Reply
Brian Klug - Monday, March 14, 2011 - linkTerence,
I actually agree with you that we really excel at the longer reviews, and it's good to hear that even though we're sometimes much later than everyone else, that it's still useful. I know I enjoy spending a lot of time being exacting about things and sometimes going behind schedule just to uncover absolutely everything.
We were able to get a preview out on day one this time around just because we have about four people with iPads this time around, where with most things we'll only have one (or in extreme cases, two) units. Each of us working in parallel really sped things up and we thought we'd just share some quick impressions.
The big review is still coming (today actually - 3/14) and will be the usual length/depth for certain ;)
-Brian Reply
Belard - Sunday, March 13, 2011 - linkAs an owner of a Galaxy S series, with poor support from Samsung/at&t and my experience of using an Android device phone for almost 6 months.
Using the iPad2 was a breeze, its was fast and fun to use. Yeah, the missing USB & SD slots still sucks... but that won't effect sales much.
We then went across the isle to the Samsung Galaxy Tab which costs the exact same $500. It was easily heavier, thicker... the GUI looks and functions mostly like my own phone so I had no problems "using it".
So after that experience, we both agreed... why spend $500 on an Android, when we could get a much snappier, larger screen and much easier to use device. BestBuy was sold out.
If the Galaxy Tab was $300~350 - it would be a more fair deal. Reply
podpi - Monday, March 14, 2011 - linkThanks Brian - looking forward to it :) Reply
ssvb - Monday, March 14, 2011 - linkVFPv2 unit in ARM11 is actually pipelined: http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.d...
And yes, naturally it is much faster than Cortex-A8 on floating point code. Reply
NCM - Monday, March 14, 2011 - linkAT: "Laying in bed and reading is probably where the difference becomes most apparent."
You should never read in bed while laying—your partner will be offended.
It's perfectly all right while lying in bed, however. Reply
eanazag - Monday, March 14, 2011 - linkI really appreciated the mouse over images changing comparison. It really gave a clear picture of the difference in the images. Reply
retnuh - Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - linkSo.... being the 16th should we assume its getting the super mega awesome thorough testing treatment? Reply
UNLK A6 - Thursday, March 17, 2011 - linkI'd like some clarification about LINPACK and Geekbench. Are these benchmarks created by compiling some portable code for each platform as a measure of floating point performance? Or, is this supposed to be some measure of how fast one can do linear algebra or DSP on the platform? On Mac OS and iOS, one wouldn't compile say LINPACK for this but use the hand-tuned LAPACK/BLAS and DSP routines built into Apple's Accelerate Framework. The difference between the two can be huge. Which do these benchmarks purport to supply--generic floating point performance or available linear algebra and DSP performance? Reply
retnuh - Thursday, March 17, 2011 - linkLast I read it was a production issue, they wouldn't be able to make enough Qi screens to fill Apple's demand. That seems to be an issue for AMOLED displays as well.
Anyone know actual numbers on this? Reply
AverageCustomer - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkJust a heads-up for all those who live in belgium and are planning to buy an iPad: people always praise Apple customer services.
But in Belgium, things are not as rosy: Apple does not have stores in the country, they have "Associates". And they have a return policy VERY different from what I have read everywhere.
I have purchased an iPad 2, unfortunately it suffers from the "backlight bleeding" issue everyone has been talking about on the Apple Forums. (And, to those who doubt, yes it is a real issue. I love Apple products, but defects happen.)
So I went to exchange it, thinking: "Ok, I got a dud. No big deal. I'll get another one, and that will be the end of it."
Not possible, according to the store! They HAVE to send all Apple items for repair, and it takes 3 weeks to get a new one!
The guy in the Apple section of the store then had the nerve to tell me that I should have taken an AppleCare plan to get a replacement in 48 hours!
All that for a product that was defective right out of the box!!
So, if you are planning to buy apple gear, and live in Belgium... Watch out. NOT the same quality of service as in France, or elsewhere. Reply


text:
After a few wayward years in the A-10, Charlotte has found its footing after being a bit flustered from being forced to make a move out of Conference USA during the reshuffling of 2005.
The 49ers are on the verge of their first NCAA tournament berth since 2005, when they were in C-USA. The A-10 years have been somewhat awkward, like a teenager in middle school trying to find the right crowd.
Charlotte had winning league records twice -- 11-5 in 2006, 9-7 in 2008 -- but wasn't really in tune for a title.
Streeter Lecka/Getty ImagesBobby Lutz has Charlotte up near the top of the A-10 standings.
"I probably didn't handle the transition as well in recruiting," Charlotte coach Bobby Lutz said. "It was just different."
Lutz said the 49ers had found a recruiting angle that worked in C-USA, notably getting junior college players from Texas.
"It was an adjustment," Lutz said. "Now we're comfortable as to who we are regardless of the league. Did we struggle with talent the last couple of years? Yes."
What Charlotte did, according to Lutz, was recruit the best players it could get and Lutz said he felt like the 49ers nabbed those who were targeted. But in the early years of the move to the A-10, Charlotte wasn't getting those same type of players, injuries hammered the program and the 49ers were a bit irrelevant.
That has changed dramatically this season with Charlotte off to a 16-5 start with a road win at Louisville (even with three guards out for the Cards) and a 6-1 mark in the A-10 coming off wins over Temple and UMass. The 49ers are in step with Xavier (7-1) and Temple (6-1) for first in the A-10 and a game ahead of Rhode Island (5-2) and Richmond (5-2), making up the five most-likely NCAA at-large candidates (sorry but Dayton just doesn't have the résumé at this juncture).
Charlotte's No. 44 RPI is buoyed by five games against the Top 25 (although only one win). The 49ers did play at Duke (loss), at Tennessee (loss) and against Georgia Tech (loss) out of conference.
Charlotte's role as a major player in the A-10 appears to be solid. Xavier and Dayton have the facilities. Temple has a quality place to play, the Philadelphia interest and the tradition. Charlotte should be right there with those programs on a regular basis, especially with the move to add football in 2013 to increase its profile.
But to make the 49ers relevant in their own market and certainly nationally again, Lutz must get the program into the NCAAs again. Lutz said he has four years left on his contract and hasn't felt any issues in terms of job security. He has been highly successful in Charlotte and continues to make this team competitive.
The A-10 has traditionally been the one league outside of the power six that has been able to get an at-large berth.
What might be missing for the Charlotte faithful are the mega personalities, the villains that Charlotte fans had in C-USA with Bob Huggins, John Calipari and Rick Pitino.
"Fran Dunphy is a great coach, a guy that's it's hard not to like," Lutz said. "But like it or not, there were personalities that brought interest. Fran Dunphy can coach with anybody in this league. He's one of the great coaches in the country. But none of the coaches in the league have that persona that make fans come and hate them. They're all classy coaches and great guys. That's a compliment to the league."
Lutz isn't and wasn't inferring that Huggins (whom he considers a good friend), Pitino and Calipari aren't in that classy group. But they were an attraction that the coaches in the A-10 aren't in terms of headline names.
Regardless of who is on the opposing bench, Charlotte had to have a winning product on the court for there to be interest.
Boston College transfer Shamari Spears has found his niche with the 49ers. He struggled to hold on to the ball in key situations for the Eagles but hasn't had an issue with the 49ers in leading them in scoring (16 ppg, 5.7 rpg). Derrio Green, a transfer guard who has two more seasons of eligibility remaining after this season, is a big-time scorer in the mold of previous Charlotte players under Lutz. He is averaging 13.8 overall, but went for 34 in a win at UMass, 26 in the win over Temple and 31 in the loss to Georgia Tech.
The core of this team will be back next season, giving Charlotte even more reason to gloat that it is no longer an afterthought in the league.
Charlotte still has nine more games, including going to Dayton, hosting Xavier and finishing with games at Rhode Island and against Richmond. There is still plenty of work to do to ensure a berth. But for now the 49ers are relevant once again.
"We've won every game we're supposed to win," said Lutz. "If the Old Dominion game is at home, we're probably favored. Yes, Louisville was down a few players but we beat them bad, it might have been the worst loss of Rick Pitino's tenure. We were still learning at the time. We were adding new scorers to our program."
The 49ers have made two NITs in the A-10 but the injuries and the defection of point guard Mike Gerrity to USC were a setback. The waters are calm now and Charlotte should be poised for a run to March.
"We've had two NITs in the last four years and in some places that's good enough, but not here," Lutz said. "I'm OK with that."

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Decision makers
- Pardon Airman Cesar Orihuela-Castro from DeportationTexas DOJ Board of Pardons
Allow this Air Force Veteran to live in the USA with his American children
Airman Orihuela served in the U.S Military with humility and valor. He will soon be deported from the USA, and his American born children will be fatherless. Help this Veteran be re-united with his 4 year old daughter and 8 year old son!
- Texas DOJ Board of Pardons
Pardon Airman Cesar Orihuela-Castro from Deportation
Allow this Air Force Veteran to live in the USA with his American children
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text:
DiceLockIVIndexedOMCheck is a Linux C++ program to verify that DiceLockIVIndexed class implementing one of DiceLock different architectures is working as expected.
DiceLockIVIndexed class is the class that implements DiceLock architecture with the following characteristics:
– base encryption cipher/decipher is any symmetric cipher (stream cipher or block cipher operation mode) working with symmetric key, and initialization vector (IV) are needed,
– ciphered index pointing symmetric key modification plus ciphertext is checked for random number test properties,
– any function that is able to change original symmetric key with new values generating index pointing out such modification,
– bit random number tests that can verify that encrypted ciphertext is at random.
Current algorithm classes that can be used with DiceLockIVIndexed architecture are:
– as base encryption cipher/decipher:
– symmetric key changers: IncreaseBase0IndexModifier_6_0_0_1 and DecreaseBase0IndexModifier_6_0_0_1,
– random number tests: Frequency, Block Frequency, Cumulative Sum Forward, Cumulative Sum Reverse, Runs, Longest Run Of Ones, Rank, Universal, Approximate Entropy, Serial, Discrete Fourier Transform tests and random number test Suite with any or all previous enumerated random number tests.
Because of so many alternative encryption/decryption engines can be used, we have split DiceLockIVIndexed class tests in two main C++ program tests:
– DiceLockIVIndexedNoOMCheck C++ Source Code program making use of stream ciphers, and
– DiceLockIVIndexedOMCheck C++ Source Code program making use of block cipher operation modes with multiple block ciphers.
In this test we verify DiceLockIVIndexedOMCheck C++ Source Code program making use of block ciphers and block cipher operation modes with the configuration shown below.
In this test we have selected this DiceLock configuration:
DiceLock class: DiceLockIVIndexed
Encryption block cipher operation mode: OFB Output Feedback operation mode
Encryption block cipher: Serpent 128 block cipher
Random number test: Frequency
Random number test: Block Frequency
Random number test: Cumulative Sum Forward
Random number test: Longest Run of Ones
Random number test: Runs
All random number test significance level: Alpha = 0.001 (confidence level of 99.9 %)
By index symmetric key modifier class: IncreaseBase0IndexModifier_6_0_0_1 by index key modifier
Bit stream class: DefaultCryptoRandomStream bit data stream
DefaultCryptoRandomStream class makes use of default virtual memory where the system can move pages of physical memory to and from swap file on disk (manipulation of physical memory by the system is completely transparent to applications).
At post bottom there are C++ Source Code links to all DiceLock cipher files being used to perform this configuration test.
Execution call has been:
– sh ./DiceLockIVIndexedOMCheck.sh 2600 DiceLock-x-8-0-0-1-DiceLockIVIndexed-OFB-Mode-Serpent-128-Frequency-Block-Frequency-CuSum-Forward-Longest-Run-Of-Ones-Runs-Incr-Base0-Index-Default-memory.log
In the following post you can find DiceLockIVIndexedOMCheck C++ source code that has been executed where you can see how DiceLockIVIndexed class can work with all different options:
– DiceLockIVIndexedOMCheck C++ Source Code program
And the result we've gotten is:
Number of streams tested: 62500
From length of shorter stream tested in bits: 8
Up to length of larger stream tested in bits: 500000
Number of correct streams deciphered: 62500
Number of incorrect streams deciphered: 0
Incorrect deciphered streams = 0 ==> ---OK---
Total encrypted streams reciphered at least once: 270
Maximum number of reciphers performed over one stream being reciphered: 7
File with reciphered stream data:
Original output log file from DiceLockIVIndexedOMCheck execution:
From log file we can see that all randomized-encrypted text sequences have been correctly deciphered.
While DiceLockIVIndexedOMCheck was executed a log file of reciphered (plaintext sequences being ciphered more than one time in order to get sequences at random) text sequences has been stored.
DiceLockIVIndexedOMCheck reciphers log file is composed of rows, and each row shows hexadecimal value for each byte of symmetric key, initialization vector and plaintext, plaintext length in bits and number of reciphers executed with such plaintext and symmetric key.
Reciphers log file:
This output file will allow us to extract statistical information and to verify DiceLock cipher architecture execution between different operating system environments.
List of C++ source code file links upon which DiceLockIVIndexed class with this selection relies on:
– DiceLock-x 184.108.40.206 for Linux
– DiceLockCipher.h
– cryptoRandomStreams.h
– baseCryptoRandomStream.h
– baseCryptoRandomStream.cpp
– defaultCryptoRandomStream.h
– defaultCryptoRandomStream.cpp
– diceLocks.h
– DiceLock.h
– DiceLock.cpp
– DiceLockIV.h
– DiceLockIV.cpp
– DiceLockIVIndexed.h
– DiceLockIVIndexed.cpp
– symmetricCiphers.h
– baseSymmetricCipher.h
– baseSymmetricCipher.cpp
– symmetricStreamers.h
– symmetricStreamerSpecialTypes.h
– baseSymmetricStreamer.h
– baseSymmetricStreamer.cpp
– blockCipherOperationModes.h
– baseBlockCipherOperationMode_with_IV.h
– baseBlockCipherOperationMode_with_IV.cpp
– OFB_Mode.h
– OFB_Mode.cpp
– blockCiphers.h
– baseBlockCipher.h
– baseBlockCipher.cpp
– baseSerpent.h
– baseSerpent.cpp
– serpent128.h
– serpent128.cpp
– baseIndexModifier.h
– baseIndexModifier.cpp
– arithmeticFunctions.h
– arithmeticFunctions.cpp
– increaseBase0IndexModifier_6_0_0_1.h
– increaseBase0IndexModifier_6_0_0_1.cpp
– randomTests.h
– randomTestErrors.h
– baseRandomTest.h
– baseRandomTest.cpp
– mathematicalErrors.h
– mathematicalFunctions.h
– mathematicalFunctions.cpp
– frequencyTest.h
– frequencyTest.cpp
– blockFrequencyTest.h
– blockFrequencyTest.cpp
– cumulativeSumForwardTest.h
– cumulativeSumForwardTest.cpp
– longestRunOfOnesTest.h
– longestRunOfOnesTest.cpp
– runsTest.h
– runsTest.cpp
– randomTestSuite.h
– randomTestSuite.cpp
So, DiceLock cipher test and analysis can go on …
DiceLock is a trademark or registered trademark of his owner where applies. DiceLock research is the research to implement Self-corrector randomisation-encryption and method, european patent EP1182777 granted 08/21/2003 and US patent US7508945 granted 03/24/2009.


text:
AMD's Jaguar Architecture: The CPU Powering Xbox One, PlayStation 4, Kabini & Temashby Anand Lal Shimpi on 5/23/2013 12:00 AM EST
78 Comments
Back to Article
vision33r - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkReal shame is that AMD has not gotten into the mobile market at all. APUs like this would've been great for tablets. Reply
jeffkibuule - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkEven if AMD makes the chip, and OEM has to be willing to use it. Reply
duploxxx - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkexactly the problem, current atom is a horrible cpu in wathever device, whatever frequency you put it. have used them in notebooks and even now in a tablet. Bobcat on the other hand was awesome in the netbook range. THe temash would be way better suited for all these devices but as usual OEM focus on the blue brand with market jingles and dominancy and in the end its the end consumer (WE) that suffer from it and if it continues like this we will even suffer more. (less innovative, higher prices, dominant predefined design (something already horrible today) but many people fail to see that........as if they think there Intel system they just bought is a better suited device for everything... Reply
mganai - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkIntel's been going easy on AMD these past few years.
Plus, Atom is finally due for its big update this year, following which we'll be seeing a more frequent update schedule in line with their Core processors.
The heterogeneous solution was what won the PS4 and XB1 for AMD. Reply
thebeastie - Saturday, May 25, 2013 - linkSimple, Money! Why roll as fast as you can when your already the fastest and aren't going to be bringing any more money then you are now. Reply
Bobs_Your_Uncle - Saturday, May 25, 2013 - linkI'd read an interesting perspective on why Intel refrained from "kicking AMD to the curb & on down into the storm sewer" (sorry; can't recall the source). In essence, given the scope of Intel's unquestioned dominance in their chosen markets, (& mobile's on the radar), were they to act with any obvious & direct intent to further weaken, (or even try & finish off), AMD, Intel would find themselves in an extremely difficult, exceedingly complex & decidedly unpleasant set of circumstances.
By decimating their only possible source of true competition, Intel would be responsible for invoking upon themselves intense anti-trust scrutiny; a result that would be inevitable assuming regulatory agencies were functioning properly.
By backing off a bit, Intel may well cede some amount of business to AMD, but they retain a legitimate market competitor & at the same time continue collecting very healthy margins. The premiums charged on sales can then be used to continue funding aggressive Intel R&D, and, uh, marketing related expenditures, too. Reply
spartaman64 - Wednesday, June 04, 2014 - linkfor a company that could "kick amd to the curb" intel is awfully nervous about amd's kaveri Reply
Wolfpup - Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - linkYeah, but regardless AMD's had the FAR better CPU now for years. I've been running the lowest end version of it for a couple of years in a tiny notebook, and from the beginning wished people were using it for tablets. Reply
Flunk - Friday, June 06, 2014 - linkWhen you say current Atom, are you referring to Baytrail? Previous Atoms were pretty bad for Windows boxes, in my personal experience. But the new generation is significantly more powerful (About on par with a Core 2 Duo on benchmarks). They seem pretty reasonable for basic office tasks, this may not include all the lowest-end versions. Reply
Flunk - Friday, June 06, 2014 - linkNVM, followed the wrong link and didn't see the date. Thought this was about something else. May 2013 Atoms sucked. Reply
Krysto - Friday, May 24, 2013 - linkStill don't see why OEM's would choose AMD's APU's in Android tablets over ARM, though.
It's weaker CPU wise, and most likely weaker GPU wise, too. We'll see when they come out if their GPU's can stand up to Adreno 330, PowerVR Series 6 and Mali T628. Plus, it requires quite a bit of power.
In my book no chip that can't be used in a smartphone (and I'm talking about the exact same model, not the "brand") should be called a "mobile chip".
This idea about "tablet chips" is nonsense. Tablet chips is just another way of saying our chip is not efficient enough, so we're just going to compensate for that with a much larger battery, that adds more to weight, charging time, and of course price. Reply
ReverendDC - Monday, May 27, 2013 - linkEven an Atom chip is more powerful per cycle than ARM, and AMD's stuff is more powerful than Atom. I'm not exactly sure what you are using to state that ARM is more powerful, but AnandTech did a great comparison themselves.
By the way, the comparisons in some cases are for quad core ARM vs. single core Atom at comparable speeds. Again, really not sure where your "facts" come from. Reply
BernardBlack - Wednesday, May 29, 2013 - linkARM actually isn't all that...and it's quite the other way around.
As I have seen it stated elsewhere, "Simply: x86 IPC eats ARM for lunch while actual performance and power usage will scale together. That is why ARM currently has no real business competing against x86" Reply
BernardBlack - Wednesday, May 29, 2013 - linkIt's all about instructions per cycle and that is what AMD and Intel do best. Reply
BernardBlack - Wednesday, May 29, 2013 - linknot to mention, the IPC's in these processors follow suit with their server Opteron processors, which means, they achieve even greater IPC's per cycle. This is how you are able to have 1.6ghz CPU's that can compete with many common 3-4ghz desktop processors. Reply
eanazag - Friday, May 31, 2013 - linkThey could use the exact same hardware design to sell Android and Windows tablets. Reply
Wolfpup - Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - linkHuh? AMD's Bobcat parts are more powerful than ARM's stuff. ARM's only just now managing to sort of compete with first gen Atom at best, and that with a CPU that's not actually used in much.
And "tablet chips" is NOT nonsense. You have more power budget, and higher expectations for performance in a tablet. If it's "nonsense", why does Apple put bigger chips in their tablets? Why can tablets run Core i CPUs? Why do they typically get bigger chips first even with Android? Reply
Wolfpup - Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - linkTo add to that, THIS article explicitly says "Jaguar is presently without competition...nothing from ARM is quick enough."
So really, where the heck are you getting the idea ARM has more powerful chips? Reply
kyuu - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkI think the main point of this is getting into the mobile market. Temash looks like a great chip for a tablet. The only problem is OEMs not biting because they think they have to put an Intel sticker on the box for it to sell.
Personally, I'm waiting on a good tablet with Temash to finally jump into the Win8 tablet club. Whatever OEM makes a good one first will be getting my money. Reply
mikato - Friday, May 24, 2013 - linkI think with tablets, OEMs are even less likely to think they need to put an Intel sticker on it. Joe Schmo knows Intel doesn't mean as much for tablets. The most well known tablets aren't Intel. This is an opening for AMD to be able to get in the game late if they want to.
Actually, do they even put stickers on tablets? Reply
Wolfpup - Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - linkIronically when I see an Intel sticker on a tablet (unless it's a Core i part), I avoid it like the plague. Bobcat would have been perfect for tablets, and a BIG selling point. Reply
Wolfpup - Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - linkYeah, I really have no interest in an Atom tablet, partially even just because of the horrible video.
I've got an 11.6" AMD c50 (lowest end Bobcat) based notebook, and while it's slow, it's still impressive how it runs anything, and in a pinch can even function as a main PC. AMD's got an even lower power Bobcat part with the exact same performance for tablets, but I don't know of shipping computers that used it, and it really would have been perfect. These new ones of course will be even better.
I wonder if the companies building these understand that using AMD would be a selling point... I see "Atom" and my eyes glaze over.... Reply
codedivine - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - link4 DP FMAs per 16 cycles? Why even bother putting them in :| Reply
Tuna-Fish - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkBecause it's expected by the spec, and some compute loads use it for very rarely used things. Reply
Exophase - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - link"I should point out that ARM is increasingly looking like the odd-man-out here, with both Jaguar and Intel's Silvermont retaining the dual-issue design of their predecessors."
It's not just ARM, it's three different current gen ARM cores.. if you're going to pose it as ISA shouldn't it then just be ARM vs x86 and not ARM vs Silvermont and Jaguar?
Besides, MIPS is 3-way in its CPUs targeting this power budget too (proAptiv), and so is PowerPC (e600 for instance). The reason why Silvermont and Jaguar is 2-way is really undeniable: x86 decoders are substantially more expensive than those for any of these ISAs, even Thumb-2. There's some validity to the argument that x86 instructions are more powerful (after first negating where they aren't - most critically, lack of three-way addressing adds a lot of extra move instructions for non-AVX processors) but nowhere close to 50% more powerful. Reply
lmcd - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkIsn't Qualcomm Krait 2-way? Reply
Exophase - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkQualcomm hasn't said an awful lot about the internals of the uarch but several sources report 3-way decode and I haven't seen any say 2-way. It's possible that isn't fully symmetric or limited in some other way, we don't really know. Reply
Krysto - Friday, May 24, 2013 - linkPretty sure it's 3-way. Reply
tiquio - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkI don't really understand the point about unique macros. What are macros in reference to CPU architecture. Reply
quasi_accurate - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkDon't worry, I had no idea either until I started working in the industry :) It just means custom circuits that are hand crafted by a human. This is as opposed to "synthesis", in which the RTL code (written in a hardware description language such as Verilog) are "synthesized" by design software into circuits. Reply
fluxtatic - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkWhoa - I think this is the first useful thing I've learned today. I've been wondering the same thing for a long time. Thanks! Reply
Ev1l_Ash - Wednesday, May 28, 2014 - linkThanks for that quasi! Reply
Tuna-Fish - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkquasi was more accurate than his name implies, but just to expand on it:
The count of custom macros is important because when you switch manufacturing processes, the work you have to re-do on the new process is the macros. Old cpus were "all custom macro", meaning that switching the manufacturing process meant re-doing all the physical design. A cpu that has a very limited amount of custom macros can be manufactured at different fabs without breaking the bank. Reply
lmcd - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkSorry, didn't see your post. Reply
lmcd - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkTo suppliment quasi_accurate (as I understand) these are parts of the chip that need checked on, adjusted and corrected, and/or even replaced depending on the foundry.
So, reducing these isn't a priority for Intel, but for AMD who wants portability (ability to use both GloFo and TMSC) it's a priority. Reply
tiquio - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkThanks quasi_accurate, Tuna-Fish and lmcd. Your answers were very clear.
If I my understanding is correct, would it be safe to assume that Apple's A6 uses custom macros. Anand mentioned in his article that Apple used a custom layout of ARM to maximize performance. Is this one example of custom macros. Reply
name99 - Friday, May 24, 2013 - linkYou can customize a variety of things, from individual transistors (eg fast but leaky vs slow but non-leaky), to circuits, to layout.
As I understand it the AMD issue is about customized vs automatic CIRCUITS. The Apple issue is about customized vs automatic LAYOUT (ie placement of items and the wiring connecting them).
Transistors are obviously most fab-specific, so you are really screwed if your design depends on them specifically (eg you can't build your finFET design at a non-finFET fab). Circuit design is still somewhat fab-specific --- you can probably get it to run on a different fab, but at lower frequency and higher power, so it's still not where you want to be. Layout, on the other hand, I don't think is very fab-specific at all (unless you do something like use 13 metal layers and then want to move to a fab than can only handle a maximum of 10 metal layers).
I'd be happy to be corrected on any of this, but I think that's the broad outline of the issues. Reply
iwodo - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkReally want this to be in Servers. Storage Servers, Home based NAS, caching / front end servers etc. Reply
JohanAnandtech - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkagree. With a much downsized graphics core, and higher clocks for the CPU. Reply
Alex_Haddock - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkWe will certainly have Kyoto in Moonshot :-) . http://h30507.www3.hp.com/t5/Hyperscale-Computing-... Reply
GuMeshow - Friday, May 24, 2013 - linkThe Embedded G-Series SOCs seem to be exactly Kabini + ECC memory enabled (ex: GX-420CA and A5-5200). This will probably be the cheapest way to get ECC enabled and better performance then Atom, next step up would be Intel S1200KPR + Celeron G1610?.
I've been thinking of putting together a Router/Firewall/Proxy/NAS combo ... Reply
R3MF - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkHSA? Reply
Spoelie - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkIs it just me or does the shared L2 cache merely enable the same scaling to 4 cores as bobcat had to 2 cores? There is no "massive benefit" as alluded to in the numbers or discussion.
Bobcat has for one thread 0.32 and for two threads 0.61, or a scaling of 95%. (0.64 perfect scaling)
Jaguar has for one thread 0.39 and for four threads 1.50, or a scaling of 96% (1.56 perfect scaling)
The 1% difference could easily be a result of score rounding. I see that a four core bobcat would probably scale worse than jaguar, but the percentages chosen in the table are a bit misleading. Reply
Spoelie - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkOf course, drawing such conclusions from a single benchmark is dangerous. If other benchmarks exhibit more code/data sharing and thread dependencies than Cinebench, their numbers might show a more appreciable scaling benefit from the shared L2 cache. Reply
tipoo - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkI wonder how this compares to the PowerPC 750, which the Wii U is based off of. The PS4 and One being Jaguar based, that would be interesting. Reply
aliasfox - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkWii U uses a PPC 750? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the PPC 750 family is the same chip that Apple marketed as the G3 up until about 10 years ago? And IIRC, Dolphin in the GameCube was also based on this architecture?
Back in the day, the G3 at least had formidable integer performance -clock for clock, it was able to outdo the Pentium II on certain (integer heavy) benchmarks by 2x. Its downfall was an outdated chipset (no proper support for DDR) and the inability to scale to higher clockspeeds - integer performance may have been fast, but floating point performance wasn't quite as impressively fast - good if the Pentium II you're competing against is nearly the same clock, bad when the PIII and Core Solos are 2x your clockspeed.
Considering the history of the PPC 750, I'd love to know how a modern version of it would compare. Reply
tipoo - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkYes, the Gamecube, Wii, and Wii U all use PowerPC 750 based processors. The Wii U is the only known multicore implementation of it, but the core itself appears unchanged from the Wii, according to the hacker that told us the clock speed and other details. Reply
tipoo - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkAnd you're right, it was good at integer, but the FPU was absolutely terrible...Which makes it an odd choice for games, since games rely much more on floating point math than integer. I think it was only kept for backwards compatibility, while even three Jaguar cores would have been better performing and still small.
The Nintendo faithful are saying it won't matter since FP work will get pushed to the GPU, but the GPU is already straining to get even a little ahead of the PS360, plus not all algorithms work well on GPUs. Reply
tipoo - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkAlso barely any SIMD, just paired singles. Even the ancient Xenon had good SIMD. Reply
tipoo - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkUnchanged on the actual core parts I mean, obviously the eDRAM is different from old 750s. Reply
skatendo - Friday, May 24, 2013 - linkNot entirely true. The Wii U CPU is highly customized and has enhancements not found in typical PowerPC processors. It's been completely tailored for gaming. I'm not saying it's the power of the newer Jaguar chipsets, but the beauty of custom silicon is that you can do much more with less (Tegra 3's quad-core, 12-core GPU vs. Apple's A5 dual core CPU/GPU anyone? yeah A5 kicked its arse for games) that's why Nintendo didn't release tech specs because they tailored a system for games and performance will manifest with upcoming games (not these sloppy ports we've seen so far). Reply
tipoo - Friday, May 24, 2013 - linkI'm aware it would be highly customized, but a plethora of developers have also come out and said the CPU sucks. Reply
skatendo - Saturday, May 25, 2013 - linkAlso the "plethora" of developers that said it sucked (namely the Metro: Last Light dev) said they had an early build of the Wii U SDK and said it was "slow". Having worked for a developer, they base their opinions on how fast/efficient they can port over their game. The Wii U is a totally different infrastructure that lazy devs don't want to take the time to learn, especially with a newer GPGPU. Reply
Kevin G - Sunday, May 26, 2013 - linkIf a developer wants to do GPGPU, the PS4 and Xbox One will be highly preferable due to unified virtual memory space. If GPGPU was Nintendo's strategy, they shouldn't have picked a GPU from the Radeon 6000 generation. Sure, it can do GPU but there are far more compromises to hand off the workload. Reply
Simen1 - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkWhat is the TDP and die size of the APUs in X-Box One and Playstation 4? Reply
haukionkannel - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkDouple the 1.6 Ghz 4 core version and you are near. The wider memory controller eats some extra energy to, so maybe you have to add 0.2 to 0.3 calculation... Reply
fellix - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - link"The L2 cache is also inclusive, a first in AMD's history."
Not exactly correct. The very first Athon (K7) on Slot A with off-die L2 used inclusive cache hierarchy. All models after that moved to exclusive design. Reply
Exophase - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkBulldozer is also mostly inclusive. Not strictly inclusive, but certainly not exclusive (you really wouldn't get such a thing from a writethrough L1 cache) Reply
whyso - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkAhh amd, I love your marketing slides. Lets compare battery life and EXCLUDE the screen. Never mind that the screen consumes a large amount of power and that when you add it to the total battery life savings go down tremendously. (That's why sandy-> ivy bridge didn't improve battery life that much on mobile). Lets also leave out the Rest of system power and soc power for brazos. It also looks like the system is using an SSD to generate these numbers which looking at the target market almost no OEM will do. Reply
extide - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkIt's a perfectly valid comparison to make. All laptops will include a screen and the screen has nothing to do with AMD (or Intel). Reply
Spunjji - Friday, May 24, 2013 - linkEvery CPU manufacturer does that... why would they include numbers they have no control over? Reply
araczynski - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkCan anyone clue me in as to how AMD got the rights to make 'PU's for both of the consoles? Was it just bang/$ vs Intel/IBM/etc? Not a fanboy of either camp (amd/intel), just curious. Reply
Despoiler - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkIt was purely the fact that they have an APU with a high end GPU on it. Intel is nowhere near AMD in terms of top tier graphics power. Nvidia doesn't have x86. The total package price for an APU vs CPU/GPU made it impossible for an Intel/Nvidia solution to compete. The complexity is also much less on an APU system than CPU/GPU. The GPU needs a slot on the mobo. You have to cool it as well as the CPU. Less complexity = less cost. Reply
araczynski - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkthanks. Reply
tipoo - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkMultiple reasons, AMD has historically been better with console contracts than Nvidia or Intel though, those two want too much control over their own chips while AMD licences them out and lets Sony or MS do whatever with them. They're probably also cheaper, and no one else has an all in one APU solution with this much GPU grunt yet. Reply
araczynski - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkthanks. Reply
WaltC - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkGood article!--as usual, it's mainly Anand's conclusions that I find wanting...;) Nobody's "handing" AMD anything, as far as I can see. AMD is far, far ahead of Intel on the gpu front and has been for years--no accident there. AMD earned whatever position it now enjoys--and it's the only company in existence to go head-to-head with Intel and beat them, and not just "once," as Anand points out. Indeed, we can thank AMD for Core 2 and x86-64; had it been Intel's decision to make we'd all have been puttering happily away on dog-slow, ultra-expensive Itanium derivatives of one kind or another. (What a nightmare!) Intel invested billions in world-wide retool for Rdram while AMD pushed the superior market alternative, DDR Sdram. AMD won out there, too. There are many expamples of AMD's hard work, ingenuity, common sense and lack of greed besting Intel--far more than just two. It's no accident that AMD is far ahead of Intel here: as usual, AMD's been headed in one direction and Intel in another, and AMD gets there first.
But I think I know what Anand means, and that's that AMD can not afford to sit on its laurels. There's nothing here to milk--AMD needs to keep the R&D pedal to the medal if the company wants to stay ahead--absolutely. Had the company done that pre-Core 2, while Intel was telling us all that we didn't "need" 64-bits on the desktop, AMD might have remained out front. The company is under completely different management now, so we can hope for the best, as always. Competition is the wheel that keeps everything turning, etc. Reply
Sabresiberian - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkThe point Anandtech was trying to make is that no one is stepping up to compete with AMD's Jaguar, and so they are handing that part of the business to AMD - just as AMD handed their desktop CPU business to Intel by deciding not to step up on that front. If you don't do what it takes to compete, you are "handing" the business to those who do. This is a complement to AMD and something of a slam on the other guys, not a suggestion that AMD needed some kind of charity to stay in business here.
I want to suggest that you are letting a bit of fanboyism color your reaction to what others say. :)
Perhaps if AMD had been a bit more "greedy" like Intel is in your eyes, they wouldn't have come so close to crashing permanently. Whatever, it has been very good to see them get some key people back, and that inspires hope in me for the company and the competition it brings to bear. We absolutely need someone to kick Intel in the pants!
Good to see them capture the console market (the two biggest, anyway). Unfortunately, as a PC gamer that hates the fact that many games are made at console levels, I don't see the new generation catching up like they did back when the PS3 and Xbox 360 were released. It looks to me like we will still have weaker consoles to deal with - better than the previous gen, but still not up to mainstream PC standards, never mind high-end. The fact that many developers have been making full-blown PC versions from the start instead of tacking on rather weak ports a year later is more hopeful than the new console hardware, in my opinion. Reply
blacks329 - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkI honestly expect the fact that both PS4 and X1 are x86 will benefit PC games quite significantly as well. Last gen devs initially developed for 360 and ported over to the PS3 and PC and later in the gen shifted to PS3 as the lead architect with some using PCs. I expect now, since porting to PS4 and X1 will be significantly easier, PC will eventually become the lead platform and will scale down accordingly for the PS4 and X1.
As someone who games more on consoles than PCs, I'm really excited for both platforms as devs can spend less time tweaking on a per platform basis and spend more time elsewhere. Reply
FearfulSPARTAN - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkActually im pretty sure 90% still made the games on xbox first then ported to other platforms, however with all of them (excluding the wii u) being x86, the idea of them porting down from pc is quit possible and I didnt think about that. It would probably start to happen mid to late in the gen though. Reply
blacks329 - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkI know its definitely not that high for any individual platform, but I do remember a lot of major publishers, Ubi, EA and a bunch of other smaller studios had said (early-mid gen) that because porting to PS3 was such a nightmare and resource intensive, that it was more efficient to spend extra resources initially and use the PS3 as the lead and then have it ported over to 360, which was significantly easier.
While I'm sure quite a large chunk still use 360's as their lead platform, I would say 90% was probably very early in this gen and since then has dropped to be much closer between 360 and PS3.
Although at this point both architectures are well understood and accounted for that most engines should make it easier to develop for both regardless of what platform is started with. Reply
mr_tawan - Sunday, May 26, 2013 - linkI don't think using x86 would benefit the dev as much as many expected. Sure using the same hw-level arch may simplify the low-level code like asm, but seriously, I don't many of devs nowaday uses asm intensively anymore. (I had been working for current-gen console titles for a little, and never write even a single line of asm). Current-gen of game is complex, and need the best software architecture, otherwise it would lead to delay-to-death shipping schedule. Using asm would lead to premature optimisation that gains little-to-nothing.
What would really affect the dev heavily is sdk. XB1 uses custom OS, but the SDK should be closed to Windows' DirectX (just like XB360). PS4, if it's in the same fashion as PS3, would use the custom-made SDK with OpenGL/OpenGL ES API (PS3 uses OpenGL ES, if I'm not mistaken). It needs another layer of abstration to make it easier to make it fully cross-platform, just like the current generation.
The thing that might be shared across two platform might be the shader code, if AMD can convince both MS and Sony to use the same language.
That's only guesses, I might be wrong. Reply
mganai - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkThat, and Intel's been making a bigger push for the smartphone market; it even says so in the article!
Silvermont should change things up quite favorably. Reply
mschira - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkWell all this is pointless if nobody makes good hardware using it.
It's the old story. The last generation Trinity would have allowed very decent mid range notebooks with very long battery run time and more than sufficient power at reasonably low costs.
Have we seen anything?
So where is a nice 11" Trinity Laptop?
Or a 10" Brazos?
All either horrible cheap Atom or expensive ULV core anything.
Are the hardware makers afraid that AMD can deliver enough chips?
Are they worried stepping on Intels toes?
Are they simply uncreative all running in the same direction some stupid mainstream guide tell them?
I suspect it is largely the latter - and most current notebooks are simply uncreative. The loss of sales comes to no surprise I think. And its not all M$ fault.
Mathos - Thursday, May 23, 2013 - linkIt could be another instance of Intel paying oems to not use certain AMD parts. They've done it before, wouldn't be surprised if it happens again in area's where AMD might have a better component.
But it's also not totally true, having worked at Wal-Mart and other big chain stores, I can tell you that many do carry laptops and ultrathins that use Trinity A series chips, and Brazos E series chips. But, right now, everyone still wants that ipad or galaxy tab. And in general the only people I saw buying laptops and ultrathins were the people during the back to school or back to college crowds. And of course black Friday hordes.
And with AMD having both next gen consoles under their belt, them and many OEMs may be able to leverage that to draw sales of jaguar based systems. Reply
Gest - Saturday, May 25, 2013 - linkSo does Jaguar have new (any) hardware instructions that intel processors don't? (Will intel add them in haswell?) I think game makers will use them actively during the consoles lifetime. Reply
scaramoosh - Monday, May 27, 2013 - linkDoesn't this just mean the console CPU power is lacking compared to what PCs currently have? Reply
Silma - Wednesday, May 29, 2013 - linkAbsolutely. Reply