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A. Harrison Barnes is a well-known attorney throughout the United States. As a member of the Malibu community, Harrison is committed to serving the needs of Malibu residents and businesses in legal matters.

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text: NEW YORK ( TheStreet) -- If you're looking to get a small business off the ground, you know just how daunting a challenge it can be. From the long hours to the start-up costs, entrepreneurship isn't easy, and there's always the chance your business could be a failure. For extra stability and cash flow, many entrepreneurs choose to maintain their full-time "day jobs" while launching their businesses in secret -- and it goes without saying that most employers won't be happy if one of their employees is moonlighting with an eye toward leaving the company. Even if you're careful not to use work time or company equipment in your efforts, experts warn that juggling two jobs is a risky proposition. Going in, it's important to be "very realistic" about the needs of your new business and the needs of your day-to-day job, says Jerry White, director of the Caruth Institute for Entrepreneurship at the Cox School of Business. "It is easy to think you can do two full-time things and then realize you've gotten yourself into an impossible position," White says. By the same token, "if you don't pay the bills, the whole thing collapses." Before you begin, considerable thought should go into what kind of business you want to start and what kind of job you currently have, White says. For example, if you travel a lot for work, your new venture must be able to go on hold while you are away. If your business grows to the point that you find yourself filling orders while you're on a business trip or sitting at your desk, that's a problem. "Using company time is a good way to get fired," White says. "The key is to format your business so that it fits around your day job." It will become painfully obvious to your supervisors if you're not meeting your job goals or if things start stacking up at the office that you usually can work off, White adds. If you're serious about keeping your current employer happy you'll need to "be your own doctor and read the symptoms," says Marnie Swedberg, founder of B.U.S.Y.: Best Unique Strategies for You, a time management consultancy.


text:
BitFenix Prodigy Review: The Affordable Performable Mini-ITXby Dustin Sklavos on 6/1/2012 1:55 AM EST
- Posted in
- Mini ITX
- Cases/Cooling/PSUs
- bitfenix
79 Comments
Back to Article
Saketai - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkVery interesting times in the Mini-ITX world.
Now if only these were on Newegg... Reply
Dustin Sklavos - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkThe best place to get BitFenix cases in the states right now is NCIXUS.com. NewEgg, for some reason, just refuses to carry BitFenix stuff. Reply
crimson117 - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkProbably can't agree on volume / pricing details. Reply
Taft12 - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkWhen your stuff's not on Newegg, there *IS* no volume. Pressure from customers on both parties will get the deal done though.
NCIXUS is a fine alternative in the meantime (a fine alternative all the time, actually). Does Tiger Direct carry Bitfenix? Reply
crimson117 - Tuesday, June 12, 2012 - linkIt's there now, fwiw: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8... Reply
Matt355 - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkWow. That store slipped under the radar. I've been buying parts for years and had never heard of it. Reply
VoraciousGorak - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkI'll probably be corrected here in a moment, but I *think* they were Canada only for a long time, only recently opening a United States-servicing website. They are definitely worth a look, I've bought a few things from there. Reply
randinspace - Saturday, June 02, 2012 - linkThere's one issue with shopping from us.NCIX.com that's either a minor curiosity or an extreme annoyance depending on your perspective and/or situation: because they're a Canadian company doing business in America (even shipping out of California...) they SOMEHOW raise red flags with certain bank/credit card companies' anti-fraud units when you buy from them using a credit card. NCIX (hilariously) informs you of this snafu during the order process/on their site so I wasn't blindsided, and I think they take paypal which would presumably be a solution, but there's nothing like wrangling with the completely automated anti-fraud process of your bank at 10 in the morning when you're trying to get something else done.
On the bright side they purport to be working on a solution to that issue (getting a US bank account? Having enough people tell their banks that they actually placed an order with them?), and from time to time they have sales on things people actually want (as opposed to Rosewill adaptor kits, items with MIRs that will never be fulfilled, and refurbished <320GB HDDs) that put Newegg to shame. Reply
Guspaz - Saturday, June 02, 2012 - linkThey're one of if not the biggest online computer stores in Canada (been around since 1996). There are a bunch of sister companies that operate separate stores like DIrectCanada, BestDirect, etc.
I can't speak to their US service, but they're not a small fly-by-night. They're basically the Canadian equivalent of NewEgg (other than NewEgg Canada, obviously). Reply
anactoraaron - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkIn Newegg's defense, they are really trying to sell watches and power tools... wtf happened to the 'egg anyway?? Reply
Zoomer - Saturday, June 09, 2012 - linkThey got IPOed Reply
Norseman4 - Saturday, June 02, 2012 - linkCurrently it's nowhere, even us.ncix.com as listing the case as "not yet available", but you can pre-order. (Shipping mid June. 79.99 w/ free shipping)
Additionally, NewEgg looks like they will carry it, since they have placeholders (out-of-stock, Image coming soon, that sort of thing) for both the blank and the white case. (Currently showing 79.99 w/ 15.88 shipping)
Other retailers may also carry it since the BitFenix site shows 9 resellers, but does not include the 'Egg Reply
JarredWalton - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkWhile Newegg does a ton of enthusiast business, I'd say BitFenix would be happier to get their stuff on Amazon first. *Everyone* has heard of Amazon; Newegg is big, but not quite that big. Reply
Zoomer - Saturday, June 09, 2012 - linkThey could just do that themselves right now by shipping a bunch to amazon under the fulfilled by amazon program. Reply
oDii - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkAs someone who regrets building a WHS box in an fully populated Lian Li PC-Q08, this looks like they were so close to getting it right! Just needed one more 3.5" drive bay. To be honest, it looks like there's a decent amount of room between the drive bays, so I'm surprised they didn't just reduce that and increase the available bays... Reply
Dustin Sklavos - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkYou need more than five? Theoretically you can pop another one in the 5.25" bay, or alternatively, switch to 2.5" drives depending on your capacity needs. Reply
Streetwind - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkThere's actually a ton more drive bays in there than it looks like. If you wanted to go all out, you could mount, all at the same time:
- Five 3.5" drives in the HDD cages
- One 2.5" drive in a mounting bracket below the bottom HDD cage
- Two 2.5" drives in mounting brackets between the bottom HDD cage and the power supply bay
- Two 2.5" drives in mounting brackets on the right side panel
- Four 2.5" drives in a (third party) 5.25-to-2.5 adapter in place of the optical drive
So yeah, while you can't do a RAID with six 3.5" drives, that's still a hell of a lot of storage for a mini-ITX case. Reply
tjoynt - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkJust curious: why do you regret using the Lian Li PC-Q08? Or do you regret using WHS? ;) Reply
oDii - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkWHS V1 is fine for slow, slightly protected storage.
My problem with the PC-Q08 is that once you start loading it up - lots of disks, standard ATX sized PSU (maybe slightly longer due to modular cables) - there just isn't enough room for everything. At the moment after the last time I took everything out of it, I put the HDD activity cable around the wrong way - and still haven't corrected because of how much of a pain opening it and accessing even small things in it is.
Perhaps to even slightly talk against my own argument of "needs more drive bays!"; the Q08 stacks the drives so close together that the cable between the SATA power connector leads becomes a major cable management problem - if it sticks out too much, you can't put the case back together. Similarly, you're pretty much forced to use 90 degrees rotated SATA data cables as standard cables would break the plastic supports of the drives they're attached to long before you managed to wrestle the side panel back on.
The positive thing about the Prodigy is that it seems like they've really got that general accessibility down with the rotated motherboard tray, as Dustin mentions on page 3.
I guess this case would be great for someone dabbling with ZFS - few disks, and a few locations for ZFS cache/ZIL. Reply
sheltem - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkToo bad the Lian Li Q25 was released afterwards. It's a bit taller, but not as wide, because it ditches the dvd drives and has 5 hot swap hard drive bays. The side panels comes off easier. Reply
Guspaz - Saturday, June 02, 2012 - linkI ended up buying the Lian-Li LanCool PC-K12 and putting some hotswap bays in it; it holds 15x3.5" drives. I also have 2x2.5" drives in there for boot, but that's kind of a kludge, since they're not mounted to anything except a 2.5" to 3.5" adapter that is loose in the case. Still, that many SATA cables in a case, the drive sled isn't budging. Reply
Matt355 - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkI Don't know why he doesn't like it but I didn't use the Li PC-Q08 because I was building a WHS and didn't need a optical drive or a big fan in front. The LIAN LI PC-Q25B has 5 hot swop bays and allows you to install 2 or 3 at the bottom of the case. I'm currently running 5 drives in mine 5 3.5 drives and 1 SSD. Reply
Matt355 - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkTry the LIAN LI PC-Q25B Thats what I used for my WHS. Reply
Synomenon - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkSo when are these going to be available for purchase in the US? Is it too late for Bitfenix to take recommendations and critiques from reviews to improve the case before making it available for purchase? Reply
ImSpartacus - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkIt's already available at NCIX's US site.
http://us.ncix.com/search/?q=bitfenix+prodigy Reply
ImSpartacus - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkMy bad, that's just a preorder. Reply
LOUiECOG - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkIf you click on it, it actually says they have some in stock. I'm not sure if they'll send it to you right away or not since it states preorder. But they do say they have it in stock. Reply
xbournex - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkIt'll be available early July guys, and we're laying the eggs down pretty soon around that time as well! Reply
B3an - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkIt's nice to see a case that doesn't look like a piece of shit, as if a 10 year old designed it or someone stuck some random plastic parts together with glue. Reply
Matt355 - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkHave you seen the Cubitek Mini Tank. Reply
B3an - Saturday, June 02, 2012 - linkLOL! Thats exactly what i'm talking about. Thats one seriously ugly case, but SO many PC cases often look like that. Reply
piroroadkill - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkVery nice. I love the idea of a small machine being very powerful, yet fully DIY and standard. Lovely case.. Reply
EnzoFX - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkNo pics with the card installed?
This case's basic design is one I've been asking for a long time now. Glad someone finally did it. The great price just throws it over the top. Wish there was a silver version =P. Reply
Dustin Sklavos - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkUnfortunately, only black and white versions. :| It really is an awesome case, though. Reply
Daller - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkI wish some of these "bigger" ITX cases would be tested with proper hardware.
This case is obviously designed with bigger tower coolers in mind. Shove an i7-3770K in there at 4.5 GHz and a high-end GPU instead of this mainstream stuff.
A SFX powersupply in a case designed for ATX PSU - who on earth would ever do that?
'nuff said. Reply
Daller - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkThey got the idea:
http://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/images/product... Reply
Menty - Friday, June 01, 2012 - link"A SFX powersupply in a case designed for ATX PSU - who on earth would ever do that?"
Someone who was unable to fit in an ATX PSU, as is the case here? :P Reply
Daller - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkHe tried with a modular PSU - they require more space. High quality non-modular PSU are readily available - and better than any SFX unit i know of. Reply
xbournex - Friday, June 01, 2012 - link160mm PSU's will fit. As with all PSU's, each company will use different thickness cables. Some will use thin black cables with no color, some will use sleeving bundled together to make huge inflexible cables. Reply
DragonMantis - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkDoes installing the dedicated GPU require removal of the middle drive cage? How long a card can be accommodated? Reply
xbournex - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkYes. It can fit 330mm cards. Reply
7amood - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkI would love to see anandtech review of silverstone SG08 Reply
Termie - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkMy problem right off the bat with this case is that its dimensions (9.84" x 15.9" x 14.1") are almost identical to the Temjin: 15.16" x 8.27" x 14.72". Sure, the handles make it taller than it really is, but ultimately, the case is just too big. It is both wider and deeper than the Temjin. I just can't see a reason for going with this case if you're trying to be compact. Reply
Termie - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkSorry - upon looking at the pictures again, it seems it's not deeper than the Temjin, but actually taller (hard to match up those dimensions). Either way, it sure is wide! Reply
Olaf van der Spek - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkHow well is the Prodigy doing with the 560 Ti vs a regular mATX case?
You just say: "Thermals for the Prodigy are still quite good, but the 560 Ti does push it a little." but some more words wouldn't hurt. The cooling in the Prodigy shouldn't be worse than in a mATX case IMO. Reply
Taft12 - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkOn the contrary, I think the short depth with front/back 120mm fans and "tunnel" for air to travel through front-to-back will provide BETTER cooling than most mATX cases.
A terrific design worthy of the Editor's Choice award! Reply
MichaelD - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkCase is great except for the feet. They let the designer people overrule the engineering people, which is usually not a good idea. Yes; the top handles are symmetrical with the bottom feet. And the case will tip over if you try to set it down on carpet. The "feet" have rounded edges which will just encourage the case to fall on it's side should you accidentally bump it. I can work around every other "negative" or shortcoming this nice case has, except the feet. That makes it a failure in my book. Side note: All that mesh ventilation looks nice on paper. Two weeks after building your system you'll be vacuuming dust out of that mesh on a weekly basis if you want the thing to run cool. Reply
snajk138 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkIt looks like you can take them off.
http://i46.tinypic.com/2h8b9lv.jpg Reply
zcat - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkThis BitFenix is a nice case that certainly would've been on my shortlist a few weeks ago, but I think I still would have gone with the slightly more expensive ($99) Lian Li PC-Q11A case that I did choose, as it's much prettier (all alluminum) and more minimal-looking.
CPU: i7-3770S (65W)
MB: Asus P8H77-I
PSU: SeaSonic SS-300ET 300W 80+
SSD: 256GB Samsung 830
HDDs: 2x 2TB 5900rpm in RAID1
HSF: Xigmatek CAC-D9HH4-U02 PRAETON (one of the few that would fit, and quieter than stock)
It went together quite easily, except for a few minor problems:
1) Lian-li still uses a 3-pin connector for the power-led, so you have to re-pin it for 2.
2) Had to order the rarer "left-angle" sata cables in order to connect the HDD sitting directly above the SSD on the drive cage.
3) The side panel is attached with 8 tiny screws instead of 2 quick thumb screws like my previous full-ATX and micro-ATX LianLi's, but mini-itx cases are rarely opened anyway.
Without the 2 HDDs, the system idles at just ~29W, and with at ~41W. Under full load it sucks ~118W so there's still headroom for me to add a 75W PCIe-powered card down the road (waiting on nvidia's more efficient mid/low-end kepler cards).
If I had no plans to upgrade from intel's integrated HD4000 to a full-length/full-height/double-width card, I probably would've chosen the MUCH SMALLER Antec ISK110 case instead (same case used in pugetsystems 'overpriced' builds).
Anyway... I guess this turned into a mini-itx mini-review of my own. Thanks Anandtech - looking forward to more mini & micro-ATX reviews as full-ATX fades to the fringes. Reply
mars2k - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkEnter the poster child for Chinese plagiarism. All the positives aside, I would never buy a product that was a cheap copy of an iconic industrial design like a Mac Pro…and it's blue.
Take all the careful design in the world and wrap it in a blatant counterfeit skin..voila…worthless. Reply
Peter_s - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkI bought in 2004 this case. Looks like a MacPro? Not realy. But it is keeps my stuff cool.
I removed the lower handle (stand). The cas had not a good stand with it. As one posted the Bitfenix lacks stability too.
P.S. I own a lot of Apple's hardware too. Simply for convenience ;-)
But will I (you) buy a MacProCase and do all fiddling to fit a PC in? I will go this route.
Probably I will buy th Bitfenix and remove the handle the plastic stand immediatly. Reply
Peter_s - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkOops
got this case in 2004 (MacPro inspired)
http://www.caseumbau.de/test263/bild002.jpg Reply
Guspaz - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkI recently bought a Shuttle SZ77R5 (apparently one of the first Shuttle XPC units to support replacing the mobo with a mini ITX mobo). One of my friends kept insisting that it was, at $340, supremely overpriced. On the other hand, it's not just a case, it also comprises a motherboard, power supply, and CPU cooler (although I won't count that since Intel CPUs come with one free).
So, how expensive is it, relatively speaking? I'll compare the cost of a similarly built BitFenix:
BitFenix Prodigy: $79
80+ bronze PSU: $65
Asus Z77 mini-itx mobo: $200
The mobo is expensive, but NewEgg only sells two mini ITX Z77 models. The other one is cheaper, but neither of these have as much connectivity options as the Shuttle (neither has 4 DIMM slots, a second 4x PCIe slot, a miniPCI slot, or an mSATA slot), so it's probably still a fair comparison.
What do we get? A fully configured BitFenix would be $344 and still not match the featureset... Suddenly that Shuttle doesn't seem so expensive anymore, does it?
I'm not knocking the Fenix, mind you, I'm just venting at my friend who will probably never see this. Reply
GotThumbs - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkI really like the layout of this case. The quality seems to be very good and I personally don't care about the name on the case....as long as the build quality is good. Being able to add my choice of PS is a good feature. I'd be interested in getting this case if it was just a little smaller in size. I'm currently using a modified APEX MI-008 for my WHS. I pulled out the 5.25 drive cage and have four drives suspended in the front. I only need a box large enough to hold the ITX board and HD's. I rip my content on my main system and then load onto the server, so no need for an optical drive in the server. I'll be keeping my eye on this company and their case selection.
Good article and appreciate the photos and not limiting reviews to only 'Big" name brands. Only a fool would accept limiting their options IMO. Reply
DesertCat - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkTo be fair, many of the cases that are competitors to this unit also do best with ATX PSUs that are only 140mm long. I think some people with the Lian Li PC-Q11 have been able to use 150mm long PSUs but things start to get really crowded between the front intake fan and the back of the PSU. Having about half of your front intake fan blowing onto the back of the PSU at a distance of 1 cm isn't exactly ideal. With some of their other models, long PSUs will run into the drive cage. So... I think BitFenix is going with a PSU length that is typical for many of these cases (though people may still not like that).
For those that don't mind having a non-modular PSU (and the associated cable tucking), an ideal solution for many of these little cases is the Nexus NX-5000 R3 (530W) or NX-6000 R3 (630W). They are only 125mm long. That is a model that doesn't show up at many of our favorite online retailers though, but a bit of search engine magic will allow people to find a U.S. retailer that carries them. Reply
versesuvius - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkThe case is 25 cm thick? And this is supposed to house a micro ATX board? At 40 cm height, it is already an ATX case. So, what is the point of the micro ATX board? Who is this case trying to fool? Reply
LOUiECOG - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkMini-ITX Reply
versesuvius - Saturday, June 02, 2012 - linkJust the same. This case is just too big for the board. No point in using it for any purpose. BitFenix already produces cases that are cheaper than this, look a lot better and have the same volume, that can house boards and cards much larger than this case can accommodate, with the most important benefit that they have a %20 less footprint. When people are talking about small in workplace or home they are not usually talking about the height, it is mostly about width and depth. This case fails on both accounts. Reply
Sogekihei - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkAnd yet this probably wouldn't exist if there wasn't some demand for such a product. Clearly somebody wants to build mini-ITX for whatever reason (lowered power consumption, integrated components such as Bluetooth and WiFi adapters) but still have a moderately powerful system, perhaps for home theatre purposes or as a game console/arcade game emulator. Considering all of the Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge-based mini-ITX boards available as well as the presence of moderately powerful single slot-width graphics cards such as some revisions of nVidia's GTS 450, this is not only possible but to some extent wanted by consumers, as such things would end production after their first iteration if they weren't commercially successful.
As the article mentioned, mATX basically has the same features as ATX at this point with both offering multiple PCI-e slots and numerous slots for additional system memory. For purpose-built systems that don't need large quantities of RAM or multiple graphics cards, RAID controllers, dedicated sound cards, etc, mini-ITX might become the new low-end/mainstream form factor and replace mATX in that regard.
I really feel like your complaints about this would have been equally applied back in the days when mid-tower and smaller case sizes first became prevalent, where you aren't seeing the full appeal of either the new mainboard form factor or you're under/over-estimating size differences; these days height can be a limiting factor with a lot of people wanting to have systems that they can place on a shelf of their entertainment center like a DVD player or video game console. Reply
HardwareDufus - Friday, June 01, 2012 - linkI have a heavily modified Travala C138 2Din Mini-ITX enclosure.
It began life as a Stock C138 enclosure with a Via C7 mini-ITX board. CPU and Case Fans were 40mm. Held a slimCD/DVD and one 3 1/2 drive. (Travala has modified this model recently and now there is the option for two 2 1/2 drives.)
I drilled many, many ventalation holes, machined out extra metal inside that blocked airflow, machined custom rails to accept the 2.5" drives, but allow for airspace on all 4 sides of the drives, etc...
Now it holds an 80mm Silenex 11dba Intake on the right side, 80mm Silenex 11dba Exhaust on the left side... and a 80mm Silexex 14dba Fan on the low profile heatpiped copper cpu cooler. Upgraded the powersupply to 120W.
I shortened/soldered/etc.. all cables for minimum space/folding.
It is equipped with the Gigabye H55N motherboard, two Seagate 2.5" 7200pm 500MB harddrives, A clarksdale I5 DualCore HT processor (655K) overclocked to 3.8Ghz, and a Sony slim BlueRay DVD, 8 GBs of Ram.
It is whipser quiet. Temps are reasonable... at full load I have seen the temps climb above 60degC, but normally stay around 40degC....not bad for living in the mexican desert...
Well now I want to go to IvyBridge..at 4Ghz with 16GB of Ram.. and I want to swap out the harddrives for SSD. And I want to stay mini-ITX... The Asus Z77 mini-ITX Deluxe board looks fantastic.. but it has that weird raised power daughter card that will get in the way of my 80mm Intake....
So, I'm looking for a better case. How frustrated I am that I cannot find one that matches mine..... I don't mind going a little bigger... But it seems you go tiny and fanless... or huge with space for 4 to 6 harddrives?
The search is frustrating.. Reply
ggathagan - Saturday, June 02, 2012 - linkIf you don't care about overclocking, go with the H77 based board:
It doesn't have the daughter card.
For an ITX system that cannot do CF or SLI, the only thing you give up with H77 is overclocking support., and I'm not sure if that means no multiplier *and* no BCLK adjustments, or simply no multiplier adjustments.
If you must have Z77, there's the ASRock Z77E-ITX LGA:
http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=Z77E-I... Reply
HardwareDufus - Saturday, June 02, 2012 - linkReally would like to get the Asus P8Z77-I Deluxe.
Mini-ITX cases are just either too small or too big.
What would be ideal is simply the following:
Height: 16cm (~6.25")
Width: 24cm (~9.5")
Depth: 24cm (~9.5")
1 x slim CD/DVD (external)
2 x 2.5" HD (internal)
150W internal mini-powersupply w/ external brick.
2 x slim120cm (each side) silent fans.
Front mount the following: LEDs, Switch, USB2/3, mic & headphone jacks, smartcard reader (look how small something like the dynex dx-cr6n1 is..that could be mounted vertically above or below usb ports).
very short/thin cables for slim miniSATA, SATA data/power, ATXpower.
just need a mini-ITX board with 2 case fan headers and a cpu fan header. Asus has that.
Honestly, can't see why Travala won't modify the C138 to be something like this!
The added depth would give a little more space between the case powersupply and memory modules of the mainboard.
The added height would allow for a little taller heatsink...and a bit more space around the 2.5" SSD drives which would mount below the slimBlueRayDVD.
The added width would make the side mounted intake and exhaust fans (blow across the whole system...so that heat from power supply and system board never run into each other...rather it's a laminar air flow. And if you wanted a monster video card i lieu of one of the fans, you'd have space for that.. Reply
randinspace - Saturday, June 02, 2012 - linkAnybody else wondering what Anand would've chosen to stick in one of these for his home theater if it had been on the market? Personally, I've been extremely tempted to gut a cheap HP I bought last year and stick its innards into one of these babies ever since they launched. The only thing that's held me back is indecision regarding what mini-itx board to buy for it... Either way, great review, as usual.
... Ah looks like other people were indeed asking themselves "what would Anand do?" if Twitter is any indication. Reply
nashville - Saturday, June 02, 2012 - linkim liking this very much! Reply
zlandar - Saturday, June 02, 2012 - linkThis case has a height of 16". I use a Silverstone GD6 which has a height of 6". Measuring my entertainment console (Z-line with two lower shelves below the TV) the clearance is 9-10".
Too bad because the biggest drawbacks of the Silverstone are the poor height clearance for cpu coolers and pain in the ass assembly. All the desktop-style HTPC cases seem to suffer from the cpu cooler height limitation. Reply
HardwareDufus - Saturday, June 02, 2012 - linkMini-ITX cases are just either too small or too big.
What would be ideal is simply the following:
Height: 16cm (~6.25")
Width: 24cm (~9.5")
Depth: 24cm (~9.5")
1 x slim CD/DVD (external)
2 x 2.5" HD (internal)
150W internal mini-powersupply w/ external brick.
2 x slim120cm (each side) silent fans.
Front mount the following: LEDs, Switch, USB2/3, mic & headphone jacks, smartcard reader (look how small something like the dynex dx-cr6n1 is..that could be mounted vertically above or below usb ports).
very short/thin cables for slim miniSATA, SATA data/power, ATXpower.
just need a mini-ITX board with 2 case fan headers and a cpu fan header. Asus has that.
Honestly, can't see why Travala won't modify the C138 to be something like this!
The added depth would give a little more space between the case powersupply and memory modules of the mainboard.
The added height would allow for a little taller heatsink...and a bit more space around the 2.5" SSD drives which would mount below the slimBlueRayDVD.
The added width would make the side mounted intake and exhaust fans (blow across the whole system...so that heat from power supply and system board never run into each other...rather it's a laminar air flow. And if you wanted a monster video card i lieu of one of the fans, you'd have space for that..
Really would like to get the Asus P8Z77-I Deluxe. so a case with these parameters would help me accomodate the odd daughter board and not have fan clearance issue (I would have that with my present setup). Reply
HardwareDufus - Saturday, June 02, 2012 - linkActually, i wouldnt even mind a slight stretch of the height to 20cm... (~7.75") then you could fit a SilverStone SFX ST45SF 450 watt Power Supply Review in the bottom of the case below the motherboard and move the SSDs under the motherboard as well.
This would remove some hot stuff from the front of the case and give you a more standard power supply.
Thinking I need to do a drawing eventually...
So, I'd take:
Height: 20cm (~7.75")
Width: 24cm (~9.5")
Depth: 24cm (~9.5")
Not allot of wasted space when you consider the cross airflow objectives. And in this design..surely there is room if someone wanted an additional couple of spaces for additonal 2.5" drives...but I think anyone wanting more than 2 harddrives is not the audience for this style/shape of mini-ITX anyway.. Reply
Laststop311 - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkGetting ready to build an awesome lan party mini itx box. Asus has a really special mini itx board out for Z77 chipset. Since there isn't enough room for a large phase cpu power supply a board for the power phases actually plugs into the itx board, giving you equal overclocking abilities as the large atx board. Asus basically eliminated the one negative plaguing every other itx board.
I'll be removing the drive cage to fit a full size GTX 690 GPU. Have to go dual card gpu since only 2 expansion slots on the case and I need to run 2560x1440.
2x4GB 1866Mhz Cas 9 Ram seems to be the sweet spot for price performance ratio. Ram above 1866Mhz is just a rip off price
256GB Crucial m4's are just a steal now and will make a nice sized boot/app/game install drive installed on right side panel
Won't have room for a soundcard, I hope the integrated sound is ok.
14x Blu Ray RW combo drive
3TB WD AV-GP on bottom
Corsair H80 rad in push pull attatched to exhause area
i7-3770k OC'd to 4.3Ghz
Seasonic X650 Gold PSU hybrid fan
upgraded 230mm front fan
upgraded 140mm exhaust fan
2x high static pressure noctua 120mm fans in push pull to replace default corsair fans
psu installed upside down for fresh supply of cold air direct to psu
indigo extreme thermal interface.
What I love about this build is the fact it will be a nice tiny easy to carry light lan gaming box but the great part is it will totally smoke anything my friends got, even full atx towers it will leave in the dust. I think this is the dawning of new champion in the desktop space. Mini ITX is the future of most desktops. I guarantee the system will run faster than most peoples full size rigs here Reply
Guges - Monday, September 03, 2012 - linkAny chance you could post a picture of your set up...curious to see how everything fits in there...considering building something similar...not sure if we really need the radiator...I think the 4 upgraded fans would be good. Reply
wiz329 - Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - linkI'm new to computer building, and i'm thinking of building this case. Did you put the 2x nocturna fans on the ceiling of the case, or how do you have those configured? Reply
SquareOFortune - Sunday, June 03, 2012 - linkWhere on earth could they ever have gotten the inspiration for that external design? ;) Reply
Mumrik - Monday, June 04, 2012 - linkFinally an ITX case that comes loaded with storage bays. That means it has some pretty great NAS/server potential for a lot of people. I'd really like to have seen it tested with those bays filled with 3½" HDDs. Reply
araczynski - Tuesday, June 05, 2012 - linkwe just threw out a bunch of ancient apple towers that looked like this.
little late to the game? Reply
SeanFL - Friday, June 08, 2012 - linkJust realized this case is about the same size as the mini atx builds I've done.
Here's a m-itx that is really small if needed. built it a few times, it works well.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8... Reply
GED2 - Thursday, July 26, 2012 - linkDid you find the Easter Egg they left in the case that enables you to have BOTH a full-size GPU AND the middle bay for a total of seven drives?
http://www.tonymacx86.com/user-builds/60362-geds-p... Reply
Narg - Thursday, August 23, 2012 - linkLove this case. If they made it for Micro ATX I'd be all over it! ITX still doesn't fill the needs for my computer. But Micro ATX is perfect. Anyone know of a similar case in the Micro ATX sizes? Reply
n13L5 - Sunday, August 26, 2012 - linkFor one thing, it looks like a cheap copy of an old power mac.
For another, I can't understand how they can be so wasteful with space for an mITX case.
A counter productive box, I can find ATX cases that take up less room... Reply
jansteytt - Sunday, September 23, 2012 - linkHardwareDufus,
Want a 23 liter case that is 22x30x34 cm? Want 5 or more 120mm+ case fans? 1000 watt power supply? Full sized CPU cooler? And Narg wants a mATX case. Perhaps smaller than the BitFenix. Room for three 3.5 in and four 2.5" drives? Both prayers have been answered.
The Silverstone SG09 has been released in Japan. Supposed to be $99. in the USA, where it will be released in October. But costs $125 in Japan now. I was inspired by HardwareDufus and tempted to mod one of my Shuttle form factor cases (yes, the "S" in SFF was originally "Shuttle), but Silverstone has ticked every box except price. But the extra fans make it worthwhile for me; especially since fans can be ADDED!! The low temps may not be optimal for your hard drives, but everything else will rejoice.
And did I mention, room for full sized cards?
I don't need one, but I will buy one at $99.00 Reply
BlueReason - Tuesday, September 24, 2013 - linkNot sure if this was pointed out yet, but it appears you accidentally forgot to change the details when you copied and pasted the first paragraph of the Testing Methodology section, as it seems to be from the review of a different case. Reply


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Three Months with Microsoft's Office 365by Vivek Gowri on 1/31/2013 11:59 PM EST
- Posted in
- Microsoft
- Cloud Computing
- Office 2013
- SkyDrive
112 Comments
Back to Article
mevans336 - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkWhat is it in? Reply
VivekGowri - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkMechanical Engineering. Already graduated actually, diploma is in the mail :) Reply
mevans336 - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkAwesome, congratulations! What school? Reply
Samus - Saturday, February 02, 2013 - linkAll my buddies (and myself) have ME degrees (I don't have a masters) and they have vast flexibility with employment. I've had jobs ranging from Ford to IT consulting. I did go back to school for an associates in EE, but its funny that none of us any longer have a typical ME job. One of us is a truck driver, lol! Reply
p05esto - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkI really dislike the UI and graphical style of this and Win8. It's 2013 and the interface so totally boring, no color, no shading, no shadows, doesn't pop or anything. Why 1 color icons, can't we make things look nicer than this? Maybe it's a small thing, but it all looks cheap and uninspired, so cold and boring. No thanks to the Modern UI. Reply
B3an - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkYeah exactly, it's 2013. Not 2005.
If you like dated graphic design, things like gradients, shadows, shiny icons, gloss, material emulation and pointless rounded corners then either go back to 2005 of use iOS or OSX.
Speaking as a designer i can safely say that pretty much all modern design is heading this way. Including site designs. Whenever you see a new design of a major site it's nearly always more Metro-ish looking. Thats because it's better, it's cleaner, it's more efficient, it focuses more on content not pointless chrome, it cuts out then needless crap and most people prefer it. Reply
Wall Street - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkBut the UI is horrible. IT doesn't indicate what is clickable or not and has a poor use of white space. The best interfaces have a good user experience and build the aesthetic around that. Metro clearly had the aesthetic laid out before they made the interface. Reply
Murloc - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkapart for the removal of gradients and juicy looking 3D icons, it's very similar to 2010.
In 2010 you can see what is not clickable because it's greyed out. I guess it's the same in 2013.
The icon style changed but other than that there's really no difference in looks. Reply
Murloc - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linklook at the copy button in the first image of the look and feel page: it's greyed out. Reply
Flunk - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkActually, it's very easy to tell what's clickable. Everything that's not the background color is clickable.
Actually the Windows 8 UI uses far more color than the old interface did and it uses them for informative purposes, not just graphical bling. It's content over all else and functionally it's much better than the old 1990's style of psudo 3D everywhere which basically only tells you what you can and cannot click. Reply
Wolfpup - Thursday, March 07, 2013 - linkRight. Just because somethings the "in" thing to do doesn't mean it makes sense. We have shadows and the like FOR A REASON. It wasn't random, it's to give visual indication of what's clickable, what's on top of what, etc. Taking that away in the service of this year's "style" is inane. Reply
guidryp - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkColor isn't needless crap.
Monochrome icons make things harder to discover. I find that I have to look at them longer to identify them. We are only talking seconds, but it is evident that they are less ergonomic.
The flat monochromatic looks is like the early 1990's all over again.
We suffered through that once, no need to do it again.
Microsoft current UI changes suck.
It is bad enough they are forcing Metro on us, but they are also trying to make all their traditional UI's look flat a featureless as well. Reply
name99 - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkWow! It's obvious designers have learned NOTHING from the 20th century.
100 years after Mies van der Rohe, fifty years after Jane Jacobs and Cabrini-Green and we still have this bizarre "Fsck you, public. We are the designers, we know style, you stupid ignorant opinions mean nothing to us." attitude.
Did people prefer cutting out the "needless crap" of modernist architecture? Was the "machine for living" REALLY more efficient? Yes, Villa Tugendhat, to take one example, looks nice in a photo. But is it ACTUALLY a house you want to live in? Especially taking into account the massive cost to build it, then the massive cost to maintain it (turns out flat roofs leak horribly in a wet climate --- who would have though? turns out glass, especially 1930s glass, doesn't hold heat well in a cold climate --- who'd have thought?).
Have you NO humility man? Are you not the slightest interested in the possibility that perhaps usability matters to people more than pure aesthetics? Are you completely unaware of the historical parallels to your current unbridled arrogance? Reply
steven75 - Sunday, February 03, 2013 - linkYou can seriously look at that Outlook screenshot and tell me with a straight face its not a complete chaotic mess? Reply
steven75 - Sunday, February 03, 2013 - linkAnd comparing a website to something like Outlook makes it clear you have no idea what the difference is between a tool (Outlook) and content you passively read like a website. Reply
ThePegasi - Thursday, February 07, 2013 - linkHow you managed to navigate to this article, let alone type and post a response, is somewhat baffling if all you do is read websites rather than interact with them. Many websites are just as much a tool as Outlook. You use navigation buttons, and even menus, and also read content (whether it be web content or an email). App-style interaction is very common on newer websites (which are the ones we're talking about if the discussion is around the most recent approaches to web design). Reply
Tams80 - Friday, February 08, 2013 - linkThis website isn't too bad. The Verge on the other hand, that would be a better analogy; i.e. bleurgh!!! (to the people you seem to be trying to preach to).
There was no need for Microsoft to not have an option for us to use the older UI, it wouldn't have changed functionality. With what's happened with W8 though, that was never going to happen. Reply
ThePegasi - Thursday, February 07, 2013 - linkJust to be clear, I don't necessarily agree with all the assertions he/she made, but I felt that this particular distinction you made was worth addressing. Reply
cyberguyz - Monday, February 04, 2013 - linkLooks like MS Office (and by extension Win 8) was designed by people just like you friend - designers that Just Don't Get It. The whole freaking lot of you should be fired and replaced by 5-year-olds armed with crayons. They couldn't do any worse.
I have Office 2013 co-installed with Office 2010 (the 2013 was a freebie upgrade for me) on one of my systems. Y'know what? Outlook 2013 looks so bad that I will just not use it. Guess which MS Office I do use on a regular basis.
Office and Windows may be just dandy feature-wise, but if Microsoft insists on following this butt-ugly UI course there are on, they have seen the last dime of profit they will be making from me. I am voting with my wallet just as all other paying consumers are voting with theirs. Judging from Microsoft's profit reports, I have a pretty good idea how that vote is going. Reply
Murloc - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkI have to agree with B3an, it's us people becoming older and being nostalgic of old-fashioned stuff.
All the design is going in this direction althoguh I like windows 7 aero style more, but I understand that it's old fashioned and I'm behaving like an old woman who keeps wearing clothes that were fashionable in the 50s because it's just what she's used to.
We have to get over it. Colorful icons look too busy and cheap for todays' standards.
In a few years when someone sees a shiny design similar to windows 7, he will say:
"hey the 00s called....". Reply
guidryp - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkTotally disagree.
Monochrome icons all look the same on first glance. You need to waste more time deciphering them.
The flat featureless crap was windows in the early 1990's.
It is also totally ridiculous that you like Aero more, but you are willing to give it up and defend flat monochrome because Microsoft is pushing that fashion.
Talk about sheep. Reply
Tetracycloide - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkIt's ridiculous that you can't make a coherent argument about UI design without calling someone a sheep because they don't agree with your position... Reply
Parhel - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkYou must be new to tech sites. This is where the socially maladjusted come to call everyone who disagrees with them 'Sheep'. Reply
guidryp - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkI am not calling him a sheep for disagreeing with me.
I am calling him sheep because he is willing to abandon what he actually likes better, to follow the latest fashion MS dictates.
"... althoguh I like windows 7 aero style more, but...."
Nothing quite as sheep like as abandoning what you actually prefer to follow a new corporate directive. Reply
FunBunny2 - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkC'mon. The Great God Steve refused to make a color-tubed machine and one with a hard drive. Events caught up with him, but he was convinced. Reply
Wolfpup - Thursday, March 07, 2013 - linkThis has nothing to do with "old-fashioned". This has to do with useability. Shadows and the like weren't introduced randomly or for fashion, they were introduced because they're more FUNCTIONAL. Removing them for fashion's sake is insane and incompetent. Reply
Cygni - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkAgreed. The UI is absolutely terrible. The flat monochromes and ALL CAPS TEXT in 1998 era fonts. Just looks horrifically bad. Reply
steven75 - Sunday, February 03, 2013 - linkIt's so bad if my employers forced this version of Outlook in me I'd be tempted to retreat to the web access version. Reply
crispbp04 - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkChrome and useless flash is JUNK. Are you also impressed by old Honda civics with fart pipes, a 4 foot wing, and a crappy paint job?
Maybe it's time to look in mirror and ask why yourself "Why am I a cynical hater?" It's possible that it will expose the core reasons why you're being an unoriginal bandwagon hater drone, instead of someone who backs up their rants with facts and examples.
I understand that "haters gon' hate" and try to invent bogus reasons to support their ignorance, but at the end of the day, it shines through nonetheless. Reply
colonelpepper - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkyou're hilarious.
...look at your own screed. Reply
Tams80 - Friday, February 08, 2013 - linkI agree. White space is badly used. There is a lack of contrast and worst it's painful on the eyes (even using 'dark' modes), which is certainly not helped by the CAPITALS. The menu uses too much screen estate. Then the whole look and feel just feels 'off' to me. Reply
Freakie - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkI really dig the new student subscription to Office. It does suck that it only lasts a max of 8 years, but picking up new .edu email addresses aren't the most difficult thing in the world... Though were 365 really shines is if your university/business has an Enterprise subscription with Lync. Our university did just that and rolled out Lync to everyone last week and it is POWERFUL. It radically changes how us students can collaborate with each other and our professors and really integrates well with a bunch of devices making it really versatile. It's a huge upgrade for us xP And any university in my opinion. Reply
VivekGowri - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkYeah, our university gave everyone Professional Plus with Lync. I dunno how it's going to play out (or even if that many people will upgrade) but it could end up being really awesome in the future. Reply
Freakie - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkSo far it seems that most on our campus have positive feelings about it. We also switched our webmail over to Office 365 so that was even bigger than adding in Lync, and that's were most of the complaints are coming from. But our University, UC Merced, is less than 10 years old and with all the technology teething pains that have gone on since the school's start, it's not as hard to get people to switch or start using a new system because we're all used to it by now. Plus it's a pretty small campus, so IT's evangelist efforts to get people using Lync don't fall on deaf ears and they don't have nearly as much trouble reaching everyone as larger universities do. Reply
steven75 - Sunday, February 03, 2013 - linkHow is it better than other universities that have been using gmail (via Google Apps) with that built in for years now? Reply
CeriseCogburn - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkiCloud looks like iFool on some levels. Reply
beginner99 - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkI paid less than that price for a bundle with 3 licenses of Office 2010 containing the exact same applications. Just double check and on the shop I use you can actually see it right next to each other, office 2010 with 3 licenses and office 2013 with 1 for exactly the same price. (and I paid less over a year ago for that bundle with 3 licenses than it costs now).
So basically MS managed to increase the price by 300%....and people don't even mention it in reviews? Even worse:
" It's great. If you've got 4 or 5 computers to install Office on, $99/year isn't bad at all"
With Office 2010 I could get 6 licenses for about double that price. But then I can use them as long as I want not just 1 year. Yes, my bundle is missing Access but then most home users don't need that anyway and also most home users keep an office version for years, I would say 5-10 years is not uncommon.
Sorry no. They managed to increases price massively and reviewers applaud for it??? Well, will probably switch to libre-office once my 2010 is outdated. Reply
A5 - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkUm, your prices are way below what nearly all non-academic users paid. You sure you weren't buying the RZR1911 edition? Reply
beginner99 - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkNo idea what you mean b yRZR1911 but here a link:
That's $139 for 3 PCs. Reply
Arbie - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkThanks for the link. And A5 owes you an apology. Reply
quickbunnie - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkNo outlook.
If you don't use outlook and have only 1 computer, this round is a big value loss.
If you do, Vivek's pricing value is valid. Reply
Ant-Acid - Sunday, March 10, 2013 - linkBut it's not the same bundle. The old Home and Student is Word/Excel/Powerpoint/OneNote. The HP also has Publisher/Access/Outlook.
Most Mum's and Dad's want Publisher as well so the new Office 365 HP is excellent value (Source: I retailed PC's from 2000-2010).
In my house of 5 it is cheaper to subscribe for 10yrs than to purchase the included software outright, and you get the upgrades to the new versions free when the release with the subscription. Reply
JediJeb - Sunday, February 03, 2013 - linkMS just wants to switch everyone over to a rental model so they can maintain a constant revenue stream. For people like me we can function perfectly well running Office95 if only it would still load on newer machines. Honestly there is absolutely nothing the newer Office versions offer that I need above what the older versions offered.
Another problem I would have switching to Office365 would be the need for constant internet access to make it operate. Even at work we often suffer from internet outages that can last all day, are we supposed to just shut down because our apps quit working?
Microsoft hates the fact that I could purchase a piece of software and function perfectly well with it for 10 years, because that means they can not receive a constant stream of money. At work we just got rid of our last W95 machine a couple years ago, a W3.1 box a year before that and still have two running WinNT4, MS really hates us I am sure, but if they function as needed, why spend money?
5-10 years is definitely not uncommon in many shops, especially if the budgets are tight. Reply
mayankleoboy1 - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkNo info on how well excel performs ? If it supports better multithreading, or uses more SSE4/SSE4.1/AVX instructions ? Are calculations faster ?
Are image manipulation faster in powerpoint ?
Also, how well does the UI use the GPU/Direct2D ? (which was supposed to be a big change in Win8. Remember "Everything accelerated" blog ) Reply
philosofool - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkReally?
It's office, dude. If you can run Vista or later, this will run just fine. You could wonder about performance, but for the vast majority of users, performance increases won't even be noticeable, much less valuable. I used to be able to slow excel down by making it compute three and four variable linear regressions on my pre-intel MacBook... Haven' had the slowness problem on any x86 processor I've used in the last decade though. Reply
Parhel - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkI used to have to wait quite a while with Excel 2007 whenever I would do a VLOOKUP on a calculated value with a large dataset. There were ways around it, but it was never all that hard to choke Excel. I don't use it much anymore, so I can't speak to the newer versions. Reply
Kevin G - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkI've been able to bring my Ivy Bridge Core i5 to its knees in Excel 2010 via using array formulas over medium sized data sets (~30,000 rows). This stuff if run through a good JIT compiler should only take moments. I'm confident that Excel has continually regressed in performance for the past 15 years. Reply
MrEcho - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkDoes the new Office 2013 or 365 offer real time collaboration like Google?
For our company this is a huge thing for us, we love it and really use it.
Yesterday we had 7 people working on the same spreadsheet, at the same time, no joke. And everything worked great. And the built in chat per document, very nice.
If your not trying to write a Masters thesis, and want to do some basic work, MS Office is a bit over kill. I could never justify spending $100+ per seat to my CEO. Reply
Freakie - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkYes, if your company gets the Office 365 subscription with Lync then you can have up to 249 people all working on a single document, with video and voice chatting built in as well. It even brings the current speaker's video feed front and center (when someone talks, their video becomes the "main" video). You can also keep the same "Meeting" going while switching documents in and out; it is sort of a digital whiteboard. Lync is also an instant messaging system that allows you do contact everyone in your business and organize them like they would be in an Active Directory (Company, Department, Unit, Individual or however your company is organized) So you can instantly communicate with anyone in your company without using email/outlook and through any device as Lync is available on just about every mobile platform. It also integrates with your cell phone number and you can send/receive all of your text messages with Office 365 so when you are at your desk you can keep up with your mobile communications while still on one device (your computer) Reply
steven75 - Sunday, February 03, 2013 - linkYou're aware gchat existed for years now along side Google Apps, right? Reply
tzhu07 - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkIf your employer or academic institution is part of Microsoft's Home Use Program, you can get Office Professional Plus 2013 for only $10.
I used my old University of Washington email account "@u.washington.edu" and it went through. Seriously great deal on a pro-grade suite. Reply
Friendly0Fire - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkWow, thanks for the heads-up, this is definitely better than *any* other deal I've seen. Reply
poohbear - Friday, February 01, 2013 - link"Or, alternatively, you could pay a student to get you an Office 365 University serial number on the cheap."
isn't that against the end user agreement? Ultimately if you're really trying to save money and don't care about the end user agreement, then you can just pay someone $20 on the internet for Office 2013, but you don't include that in your article, just the "pay a student $79". lol Reply
Taft12 - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkI've found the same on DT as well. Anti-piracy sentiment, but plenty of appetite for abusing discounts individuals shouldn't qualify for. Theres no ethical difference. Reply
BrokenCrayons - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkI agree with this comment. Seeing an Anandtech.com article that promotes violating the EULA of a software suite is a bit alarming. I'd encourage a few edits that remove the bits that discuss getting Office 365 at a cost a customer may not be entitled to pay. Reply
jamyryals - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkAgree 100%. There are free options to choose from if you don't want to pay for Office products. Anandtech.com should not encourage, endorse, or detail how to commit fraud. Reply
andrewaggb - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkyeah, I agree - lets not encourage fraudulent behavior. You've said it yourself, microsoft should probably adjust the pricing for home premium. That's the real issue. Reply
Bat123Man - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkGoing back as far as StarOffice, although I never really did much more than play around with that product. But when OpenOffice was made available, I jumped on board. Haven't used an MS Office prog since. I now have all 4 of my kids using OpenOffice, and they think it is great. I have asked many industry friends if I am missing out on anything by forgoing MS Office products, but have yet to come up with a compelling reason to switch to a paid suite.
BM. Reply
guidryp - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkI guess there really is a sucker born every minute if people are really signing up to RENT MS Office for a $100/year. Reply
colonelpepper - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkexactly. only a microsoft shill would defend this idea. Reply
N4g4rok - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkIt's not that bad.
If you use all if the applications that usually come with the Professional editions of office, then after 4 years, you've paid the same price for five installations of it as you would have for a single one. Plus, the subscription gives you access to an upgrade when the new version comes out. Which is likely to happen in 3 - 4 years. combine that with the free Skype minutes and extra Skydrive storage, and it isn't that bad a deal. Reply
colonelpepper - Saturday, February 02, 2013 - linkActually it's pretty flippin terrible.
I've been using office 2003 for 10 years... it works perfectly. Apart from aesthetics (which have gotten worse) there is no compelling reason for almost anyone to upgrade past 2003.
Another fact: Almost nobody "uses all of the applications" that come with Office
Another fact: The only way that microsoft can convince people to upgrade has been to implement backwards-INcompatible file formats with each successive iteration of Microsoft office.
This push for subscription-based software which you don't own is COMPLETELY TERRIBLE for user rights. Nobody, absolutely NOBODY should be defending microsoft here... it is completely inexcusable (this push for subscription based Office).
Download LibreOffice! There's the link. It costs nothing. It is free of spyware (unlike office). It does everything that will satisfy the needs of 99.9999999999% of all "office users".
...where is the LibreOffice review Anandtech???
or is it corporate propaganda articles only these days? Reply
cjl - Saturday, February 02, 2013 - linkWhile I agree that the office rental is a pretty bad deal, MS has not implemented "backwards-INcompatible file formats with each successive iteration of office" (or anywhere close to it, really). The formats stayed constant up through 2003, through several iterations, and then they changed once in 2007 (but they retained the ability to save in backwards-compatible formats). Then, Office 2010 and now 2013 share the same file formats as 2007, so once again, there is no forced obsolescence. In addition, Office 2007 (and later) added significant features over the older versions, so there are plenty of reasons to switch aside from mere aesthetics.
As for LibreOffice? I've tried it, and unfortunately, it lacks many features compared to MS Office. It works fine for basic users (and to be honest, if you're happy with the feature set of Office 2003, you are a basic user, and LibreOffice would probably be an upgrade as far as features are concerned), but if you use some of the more advanced features in Office, it isn't really a viable substitute. Reply
N4g4rok - Saturday, February 02, 2013 - linkWhen you say "subscription-based software which you don't own", i'm not entirely sure what your issue is. Ownership in all practicality is the same as buying the individual license. Yes, it's more like leasing than purchasing, but that isn't inherently a bad thing.
"It is free of spyware (unlike office)"
I'm not even sure what you're getting at there. It sounds a little paranoid, but the definition of spyware could be muddied to include the improvement program microsofts implements. There's an opt-out for that as well, so i don't know how your 'Spyware' accusation holds any ground.
"Nobody, absolutely NOBODY should be defending microsoft here"
Naturally, i don't agree. supporting microsoft does not immediately make you a shill or a throwaway in a debate about software companies. Microsoft isn't the evil company that some would claim they are. Reply
Ant-Acid - Sunday, March 10, 2013 - linkSo I am a sucker for being in front even after 20 yrs of "renting" Office?
To get the same apps (Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Onenote, Outlook, Access, And Publisher.) as a once off purchase for 1 PC is ~$550 here in Australia.
Now multiply that by the 5 PC's that we each have in my house.
That's $2750.
Now divide that by $119 for Office 365 HP. That's ~23 years of "renting" and then I am starting to better off purchasing outright, and I don't have to find $2750 right now.
The subscription is for the *current* version (read: free upgrades) as well. Reply
tipoo - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkAll that white is an eyesore. Reply
steven75 - Sunday, February 03, 2013 - linkYou just don't get it, maaaan. He *designers* say everything should be endless white space. That's like, what the future is. Nothing with be distinguishable at a glance--just white space as far as the eye can see! Reply
nalim - Friday, February 01, 2013 - link"It's been six years since they debuted, so anyone that is still complaining about Ribbon UI should really get over it, especially now that Windows Explorer uses it as well."
What a lame logic! Reply
JediJeb - Sunday, February 03, 2013 - linkJust because some people find the Ribbon to be lame does not make them lame themselves. Everyone has a different way of thinking, and to some the Ribbon is illogical at best.
If everyone's thought process was exactly the same, there would only be one style of house, one style of automobile, one type of computer, one type of food, ect. What one finds stupid and useless another finds perfectly logical and useful. You like the Ribbon, some don't. Thinking everyone should is the lame logic here. Reply
Arbie - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkIs this about you or about Office 365? Reply
Guspaz - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkOffice was launched in November of 1990, which gives us a maximum age for Vivek of 22 years :) Reply
tipoo - Friday, February 01, 2013 - link22 and done a masters? It's possible I guess, but not common. Reply
WeaselITB - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkYeah, I was going to say:
Wow, Office and Windows were before he was born? I feel old. :-/ Reply
VivekGowri - Saturday, February 02, 2013 - linkI'm 21 :) Reply
FunBunny2 - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkWell, depends on how you measure. "Office" isn't a program, and never was, it's just the name for a bundle of GUI programs: Word, Excel, PPT, etc. The first GUI program in the bundle was Word for Mac (paid for by Apple, by the way), in 1985. That's nearly 30 years. Reply
philosofool - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkCan I buy two university licenses and then use it on 4 devices? Also, what happens when I replace a licensed device? 4 years is longer than the typical student's laptop lasts. Reply
HardwareDufus - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkIs their a different file structure for Office 2013 vs 2010 documents?
For instance, there was little change between Office 2007 structures and 2010. Reply
Subyman - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkI believe it is somewhat strange that the author keeps discussing breaking MS's EULA by recommending users consider getting a student to purchase a license for non-educational use. Reply
Lazlo Panaflex - Friday, February 01, 2013 - link"I've always been a fan of the ribbons, which I thought were a good idea in Office 2007 but really came into their own with Office 2010. It's been six years since they debuted, so anyone that is still complaining about Ribbon UI should really get over it"
Really? Maybe your Microsoft fanboi-ish comments belong in a blog, not a front page article. Reply
colonelpepper - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkagreed.. totally unprofessional
totally reading like it was written by microsoft Reply
N4g4rok - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkJust being in the article doesn't imply that it's fact. He's entitled to his opinion, as are you. No reason to continue the use of the phrase 'fanboi.' It gets nothing accomplished. Reply
CaedenV - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkWhile $100/year for 5 machines is not bad, I do not have 5 machines. In fact I use to have 3 machines at home, 2 desktops and 1 laptop, but our new Lumia 920s have replaced the need for the laptop and it has sat unused for the last 2 months that we have had our phones, so we will likely get rid of it before long.
In the past I have upgraded Office Home every 2 generations (~6 years), which breaks down to ~$12.50 per year per machine for 2 machines, which is an easy pill to swallow. I understand that I am getting a lot more out of the new package, but $50/year/machine (because I am not going to buy more computers just for the sake of having them) is a bit on the insane side of things.
I played with the beta, and loved everything about it except for the lack of a dark color theme (easier on the eyes at night), but unless they come out with a 2 machine $40 install or 3 machine $60 install option then there is just no way I will buy it. That would already be a major increase in the amount of money MS would be getting out of me for Office, and my usage would not be all that different than it currently is, so it would not me that much extra effort for MS to invest in supporting me as a user
I hardly feel like openoffice is an adequate replacement for MS Office... but then again it is free yet capable, while this new office demands a lot more money out of me. Reply
CaedenV - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkOK, so I have a MS account, and my wife has a MS account, and my kiddos have MS accounts (though it will be a few years before they actually use them). We have 2 computers in the house; My machine, and my wife's machine. Lets say that I purchase Office 365 for the family, which allows us to install office on our 2 machines, and on up to 3 supposed future machines.
So the loaded question: Who gets the 20GB skydrive?
Do I get the 20GB skydrive and then have the 'privlage' of purchasing it for the other 3 in the family (an added cost of $30/yr)?
Do we all get extended skydrive accts?
What happens to data on skydrive if your account were to lapse? Is the data just gone? or do you get it back if you pay for the acct again within a certain number of days? Reply
N4g4rok - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkThe microsoft account used to purchase the software gets the extra storage. If you'd like to share that storage, you can set up a shared folder in your Skydrive for them to connect to.
I THINK that you get warning messages to move some of your files if your storage shrinks for some reason. That's only from something i vaguely remember reading though. Reply
Galvin - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkI tried office 2013 excel. But there is so much WHITE, that after a while it just hurts your eyes. Not sure how anyone could spend long periods of time using their horrible UI.
Its funny how people are saying modern UI that looks like the 1980s is a step. heh Reply
tk11 - Friday, February 01, 2013 - link"I've always been a fan of the ribbons, which I thought were a good idea in Office 2007 but really came into their own with Office 2010. It's been six years since they debuted, so anyone that is still complaining about Ribbon UI should really get over it"
Why would anyone write this knowing full well that the ribbon interface is so widely loathed. You must have been looking to offend a decent chunk of your readers. If so then good job. If you want to voice an opinion that's fine but I'd much rather hear the reason that you hold that opinion rather than simply stating it then rudely suggesting that I fall in line.
I could just as easily tell you that even after all this time that the ribbon still sucks so you should get over your preference. Reply
N4g4rok - Friday, February 01, 2013 - link"Why would anyone write this knowing full well that the ribbon interface is so widely loathed."
I can't personally see that as being a reason not to express an opinion about something. Even if a majority of office users despise the ribbon, it wouldn't make them "correct" about the matter, nor should it suppress opposing views. Reply
colonelpepper - Saturday, February 02, 2013 - linkIt destroys the authors integrity, and reveals him as a Microsoft Shill. The "article" reads like nothing more than a Microsoft Sponsored Story. It degrades the integrity of Anandtech.com.
Lastly, flagrantly pushing moronic opinions like "It's been six years since they debuted, so anyone that is still complaining about Ribbon UI should really get over it" is totally clueless how to reach out to people through journalism.
...but then again this Microsoft Sponsored Story is not journalism at all. Reply
cjl - Saturday, February 02, 2013 - linkWait - everyone who likes the ribbon UI is a microsoft shill, and therefore sponsored by Microsoft?
I was not informed of this - who should I contact at microsoft to get my payment? Reply
N4g4rok - Saturday, February 02, 2013 - linkI agree that it's brash on his part, but you cannot insist that any positive feedback towards a Microsoft product is a marketing ploy. Nor does siding with Microsoft make his point invalid. There's no place in a debate for the implication that all positive feedback that doesn't mesh with an opposing personal bias is immediate evidence for foul play. Reply
colonelpepper - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkthis "article" is so obviously an advertisement... what an embarassment for anandtech.
shame on you guys
..and on all the microsoft shills polluting this comment section.
what a friggin embarrassmet Anandtech. UNBELIEVABLE Reply
ggathagan - Saturday, February 02, 2013 - linkAs opposed to everything you've written.
By your standard, you are a LibreOffice 'shill'.
As others have stated, the fact that Vivek happens to like the features of Office 2013 doesn't make him a shill, any more than your opinions make you a LibreOffice shill.
You may not have noticed, but there's no one with a gun to your head demanding that you use any MS product.
Feel free to live your entire life without a single MS product in your home.
That's the beauty of choice Reply
versesuvius - Saturday, February 02, 2013 - linkWhy pay all that money, when you can keep all that money. Open office is not as pretty, depending on one's moods and tastes of course, but it is ten times more reliable and in the long run more productive than any MS Office n-1. Reply
mechBgon - Saturday, February 02, 2013 - link...exploitable, maybe. CERT's security shootout, have a look at the third chart:
Quality code, for a premium price. Choose your preference, I guess.
That said, I would probably get Office 2010 over Office 2013 at this point, since Office 2013 licenses can't be transferred to one's next PC. That's right, it's like an OEM Windows license, irrevocably licensed to the first PC you activate it on. And if you want to use it on your desktop and your laptop/tablet, Office 2013 requires you to buy a second license, whereas Office 2010 doesn't.
It appears to me that Microsoft is purposely poisoning Office 2013 with these licensing shens to get more people onto the subscription model. Reply
versesuvius - Sunday, February 03, 2013 - linkI will not argue with that test, but my own experience is somewhat different. Apache Open office is in 3.4 version now and keeps getting better. In Europe, many governments and city authorities have adopted Open Office since its early versions (before Oracle and Apache), and that shows that the crash problems and productivity then were much more in favor of Open Office and with the latest improvements the situation has not changed much. Anyway for small business and individuals,if not with enterprises, Open Office makes a compelling case. After all 30,000,000 downloads for Apache Open Office alone is bound to make it a more viable platform every day. And again, it is free. Reply
mechBgon - Sunday, February 03, 2013 - linkYou mean, the _up-front cost_ is free. How about the TCO? Microsoft has some compelling advantages there. Installation, security, updating, auditing, and configuration enforcement are all centrally manageable with Group Policy, WSUS, and MBSA, among other tools.
It certainly beats hand-installing and hand-configuring a thousand workstations, wondering if the employees have altered the security configuration, wondering if they're up-to-date, and knowing that you had to allow Admin rights to update the software. Over the course of a 3-5 year lifecycle, which one's really cheaper? And how much does a security breach cost?
Then there's Open Office's deplorable inclusion of a Java Runtime Environment by default. If they were deliberately attempting to create a security liability, that's a great opening move. Reply
versesuvius - Sunday, February 03, 2013 - linkVery few open source software updates like paid software. The reason for that is simply the fact that updating automatically requires an online server or actually many servers, which costs money. The free software only gives you a notification and the update is usually a download and an install into the same directory. But that does not mean that updating many installation has to be done manually. It can be done automatically through scripts or other methods. As I said governments in Europe have adopted Open Office since many years ago and they are very likely to have security as a high priority on their list. Anyway, all that you mention can be done through either OS services, with Linux being very good at it, or through scripts which any serious enterprise easily has the resources available for and in place already. An interesting point is that contrary to what you say, when it comes to thousands of installations the first time installation make the cost of Open Office almost the same as MS Office. (I remember in a European city, Microsoft's bid was lower than Open Office's, but the city went ahead with Open Office anyways). After that it is almost free with Open Office and permanently very costly with MS Office. I remember Microsoft at a time was offering the entire office suite for 3 dollars in China. It was done to combat piracy, but the end result is the same. It is the long run profits that Microsoft makes that is important to the company, not the initial payment. Reply
HisDivineOrder - Saturday, February 02, 2013 - link...for a lot of users. I think you really covered that. You'd think they'd want to get everyone on the MS teet, suckling that Office goodness in a subscription they'd get for years and years to come. Just like you said, getting us to pay for more and more devices to have access.
Instead, they're like confused about what they want to do. On the one hand, they want to charge the same as they always do for the single license, no subscription. And on the other, they want TONS of money from subscriptions, charging an insane amount for a year's worth of use of something. If they'd shave $10 off per copy that I wouldn't use on devices, let me decide how many devices i need to have access to the subscription, then this would be a great deal for me.
Otherwise, I don't think they get who their competition really is. Sure, they're competing with Google Docs, LibreOffice, OpenOffice, etc. But that's not the real competition they should be afraid of.
They should be afraid of everyone who has Office 2010/2007 who is looking at this and shrugging. Most of what 2013 offers in Skydrive functionality that ordinary users would appreciate can be duplicated by changing your FREE Skydrive account to look at your documents folder. And for anyone who had Skydrive before it was Skydrive, they have not 7 GB, but 25 GB already. I'd imagine quite a few of THOSE users already have Office 2010.
So... by pricing this in the stratosphere, they've killed any and all impulse buying of this product.
As far as I can tell from this "review," the only other real reason to get this is if you have a Touch device. How many x86 computers out there based on touch will be used via touch enough to make an Office built around touch worthwhile? How big is that audience? Reply
flensr - Sunday, February 03, 2013 - linkNo subscription for me, no way. I got office 2007 student edition back in 2007, for under $100 if I recall correctly. I'm still using it, 5 years later and have no reason to upgrade. I know how to use it, it's compatible with everything I need to do.
A subscription would be a total ripoff for me and my family. I'm just not going to do it. Reply
benedict - Sunday, February 03, 2013 - linkSo Vivek graduated and got a job at Microsoft. Grats! Reply
Da W - Sunday, February 03, 2013 - linkIt's not me that says it, it's all of you bitches posting on this site. Lost your start button? Don't like the ribbon? And now what, you don,t like the COLOR of office? Are you freaking serious? GET A LIFE! Reply
Tams80 - Friday, February 08, 2013 - linkIf we're paying for something, then we are perfectly within our moral rights to complain if we don't like parts of it. Unsurprisingly, I reckon a lot of us have just not bothered upgrading (and thus paying). Reply
Touche - Sunday, February 03, 2013 - linkJust as I thought that UI degradation couldn't get worse than 2007->2010:
They actually managed to make 2013 even less user friendly and ergonomic. Metro "progress" I guess. An the white, OMG, do they bundle sunglasses with the new Office? Reply
Tams80 - Friday, February 08, 2013 - linkAt least 2010 had a few updates that outweighed the minor changes in UI. I must admit, 2007 looks better.
Do reviews factor in the cost of sunglasses? XD Reply
scarhead - Sunday, February 03, 2013 - linkSo from the review, I understand the M$FT's pricing model and that there's a new look that people should just get used to.
How about performance-wise? Does Excel handle larger files faster? Large spreadsheets with my i7-3820QM/6G SSD isn't as snappy as I think Excel should be. Any new formulas or macro commands?
I see it's easier to import pictures into Word. Once they're in, any faster?
The Mac version is slightly mentioned once. Any other differences between the two platforms? Reply
enterusername - Monday, February 04, 2013 - linkI've been reading Anandtech for a long time and I'm generally impressed with the quality of articles.
This "article" however is just sad. It looks like a blog from a Microsoft fan.
What about security? It it advicable to store all documents on Skydrive?
Microsoft has a very poor trackrecord for securiting their emailservice for instance.
Should people just really get over the GUI if they don't like it? Is that what people should do if they don't like a product?
Is $100/year really a good deal for most people? Do you even know what most people use Office for?
What about performance for people who are using Excel for more than their home-budget?
This is just an anoying article. Please don't degrade Anantech with this kind of crap.
Btw: I'm using Office 2013 every day. Reply
Avenger762 - Monday, February 04, 2013 - linkSomeone needs to use spell checker for office. In the picture, the items are spelled "Maoi" when it should be "Moai". Reply
The0ne - Monday, February 04, 2013 - linkFinally upgraded from 2003. 365 IS more of a aesthetic/visual upgrade and for me it works very nicely. In fact, the fluidity of working in the new apps is such a joy. The new ribbon is a tad better but I still rely mainly on the single customizable bar. There are templates to get most people going and styles that can easily make your documents nice and pretty.
However, there are still a few things buggy about the programs, in particular Skydrive. This Office is really no different than from 2003. Most of the internals are still the same, with most of the same bugs and options. I don't think this is going to change unless the code is drastically changed. I've and a few others on the MS community site have encountered this really aweful bug where an Excel file would take forever to complete a function such as selecting a cell. So far no permanent fix has been issued.
I've been using 365 since beta and Skydrive has a lot of critical bugs that may deter users and even corporate users away. I have many pending critical bugs on their help site but so far none has been able to resolved most of them. I'll list a few examples,
1. Skydrive made copies of each of the file from each of the computer, renaming them to end with the PC name that connected to it.
2. Skydrive can't unshared a file from one or more person. This is dangerous.
3. Skydrive unable to sync properly on various computers even after re-installing several times.
If you are synced to Skydrive you have to realize that it will upload your changes to the cloud. That means if your file is large and depending on your connection and what not it may slow you down in your work. On the bottom of the program it'll tell you that it's updating to Skydrive. Also realize most of these issues are from me sharing and allowing multiple users to the files. For now, I'm holding off until they can at least address the issues I've encounter. I definitely don't want to lose data because Skydrive decided to chew it up.
I would recommend the new suite. The fluidity makes it much more enjoyable to work in, at least for me. I love typing now because of that single feature. Have fun. Reply
rothnic - Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - linkVivek, nice overview. I do think Microsoft has a little of a communication problem with this recent release in regard to Office 2013 vs 356, and you helped clear it up for me.
I recently purchased Office 2013 Professional through one of the employer partnership programs that allow employees to purchase Microsoft software at a big discount. I was able to get Pro for $10, then Visio for another $10. Project was another $10, but I didn't need it at the time.
I also am currently working on my masters through a new distance program (search Georgia Tech PMASE), where we work 90% of the time in teams, have a two dave video teleconference every 3-4 weeks, recorded lectures, and a team assignment due each week. One of the things we found hugely useful was using Google Hangouts along with Drive/Docs. I use Hangouts about every other day, and use Google Drive as much as possible.
The main issue we have with Google Drive is that the applications just do not help you produce the same quality of presentations as Office, especially 2013 (agree about the themes/templates). So we tend to work on Docs through brainstorming and rough drafts then we start the handing of versioned .docx documents back and forth through Google Drive.
Even though my teammates don't currently have 2013, I'd be very interested if you could do a detailed look at the real time editing functionality of 2013. What the differences are between web and native applications, etc. After looking at other articles it looks like it may not be as useful as Google Drive/Docs, but isn't so straightforward. Reply
MrCrispy - Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - linkI really don't like how Windows 8 and Office 2013 have so much shiny wasted white space. And they've taken away the ability to customize color schemes. Reply
IgorP - Saturday, February 09, 2013 - linkThis new UI has no depth. Using one colour for everything completely removes all the different levels of the UI which are important for productivity.
When we perceive information visually our brains will naturally try to group the information to better and more quickly decipher it. This is done in many different ways but two major ones are colour and size. If you make everything a sea of white littered with similarly sized, shaped and coloured information, suddenly your brain starts to jump around and it becomes more difficult to focus on and find distinct areas.
It's literally exhausting to look at. The situation improves slightly with the "Dark" theme, but not enough. Reply
andypost - Monday, July 29, 2013 - linkThey should change the pricing to $49 for 2 PCs per year. I think that will drive adoption greatly! Reply


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Ohio's energy efficiency mandates save consumers money; now is no time to stop themComments Email Print
Ohio's energy-efficiency laws, which passed with overwhelming bipartisan support, require utilities to invest in low-cost energy efficiency just as they invest in power plants and power lines. Unfortunately, one utility, FirstEnergy, is trying to roll back these laws that are saving ratepayers money, even while others are demonstrating that the savings for consumers greatly outweigh the costs of energy-efficiency programs.
For example, central Ohio utility AEP recently announced that its energy-efficiency programs are saving almost $1.5 billion, while the investment for these programs cost customers $436 million. That amounts to more than $1 billion in savings for AEP customers.
Energy-efficiency investments save customers money in two ways. First, the programs help customers directly save money and lower bills through participation. For instance, many cities and counties across Northeast Ohio are saving energy and taxpayer funds through energy-efficiency improvements. Installing advanced lighting and improving buildings reduce the amount of taxpayer and ratepayer dollars spent on energy bills.
Second, even if customers don't directly participate in a program, they still benefit. How, you might ask? Energy efficiency lowers overall demand for electricity, which helps lower prices. By deferring the need for new capacity, all ratepayers avoid the costs of expensive new power plants.
Energy efficiency saves consumers money, and Ohio's law has been and continues to be a huge success. Altering Ohio's energy-efficiency laws is the wrong move for Ohioans. Without these efficiency programs, electricity prices will increase and consumers will pay more for energy. We need state elected officials to stand by Ohioans and preserve Ohio's energy-efficiency laws.


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More than just news
Now this will BLOW you away!
A racketeering lawsuit was filed in the U.S. against top U.S. government officials and the wall street banks! It is for the tune of 43 TRILLION dollars!
What is even MORE shocking is this information is on CNBC! Imagine that!
I have captured screen shots of the website, just in case the article gets taken down! This way there is a record of it. I am putting the shots in this post along with the information.
You have to read the article... thousands of complaints have been served to bankers around the world and government officials! This is HUGE!
The law firm that has brought this suit is the Spire group out of New York. They have led many suits against the bankers! They are AWESOME!
One small portion.... but the whole article from screen shots are below! I got it all, as I said in case the article/information gets "disappeared" from the internet!
Plaintiffs now establish the location of the $43 trillion ($43,000,000,000,000.00) of laundered money in a racketeering enterprise participated in by the following individuals (without limitation): Attorney General Holder acting in his individual capacity, Assistant Attorney General Tony West, the brother in law of Defendant California Attorney General Kamala Harris (both acting in their individual capacities), Jon Corzine (former New Jersey Governor), Robert Rubin (former Treasury Secretary and Bankster), Timothy Geitner, Treasury Secretary (acting in his individual capacity), Vikram Pandit (recently resigned and disgraced Chairman of the Board of Citigroup), Valerie Jarrett (a Senior White House Advisor), Anita Dunn (a former "communications director" for the Obama Administration), Robert Bauer (husband of Anita Dunn and Chief Legal Counsel for the Obama Re-election Campaign), as well as the "Banksters" themselves, and their affiliates and conduits. The lawsuit alleges serial violations of the United States Patriot Act, the Policy of Embargo Against Iran and Countries Hostile to the Foreign Policy of the United States, and the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (commonly known as the RICO statute) and other State and Federal laws.
The complaint - which has now been fully served on thousands of the "Banksters and their Co-Conspirators" - makes it irrefutable that the epicenter of this laundering and racketeering enterprise has been and continues to be Wall Street and continues to involve the very "Banksters" located there who have repeatedly asked in the past to be "bailed out" and to be "bailed out" in the future.
screenshots at link: http://sherriequestioningall.blogspot.com/2012/10/43-trillion-dolla...
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