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Browser Face-Off: Battery Life Exploredby Jarred Walton on 9/11/2009 6:00 PM EST
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- Laptops
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ProDigit - Monday, September 21, 2009 - linkI just read the Intel senior vice president is called Anand Chandrasekher. I wonder if he has anything to do with Anadtech? Reply
Wwhat - Sunday, September 20, 2009 - linkAdblock doesn't just help by blocking flash but also by preventing tons of scripts the adcompanies run I bet, you should test that by also trying it with flashblock instead of adblock if you want to be sure.
JarredWalton - Sunday, September 20, 2009 - linkIn progress... obviously, the impact of Flash/FlashBlock will depend on how many Flash ads are on a page as well. Reply
Starcub - Friday, September 18, 2009 - linkI just installed Safari 4 a few days ago along side Explorer 8. Then I saw this article, and when I saw the large difference between IE8 and S4, I decided to test out how much processor usage they each used. So I closed out IE8 and loaded the article up in S4 and found that both cores on my T5500 CPU went from ~5% to over 20% usage on the same page.
S4 pages seemed to look nicer than on IE8, and the performance seems a little better too. S4 also has a TSR spellchecking feature enabled by default, and puts borders around text boxes. All these things, and there are probably still more default processes, require CPU cycles to execute.
I've decided I'm going to do my civic duty and use IE instead of Safari in order to reduce my carbon footprint (except on pages IE8 has problems with @!#%$!) :)
Thanks for a very informative article! Reply
- Monday, September 14, 2009 - linkI'd love to see the different power usage differences between XP, Vista and Win7. Maybe you could test different OS's on older and new laptops, as well as older and newer desktops then compare the differneces. It could even be combined with different browsers, and see how each browser interacts with each different OS.
I've heard someone say that actually XP is the most efficient power wise when they did an impromptu test of their own, but not sure whether it's really true.
If web developers could develop more green friendly web sites on the server side, and consumers on the client side could make use the best combo of efficient OS, browser and plug-ins, it would be a step in the right direction. Reply
JarredWalton - Monday, September 14, 2009 - linkYou're about one day early... I should have the results up for OS comparisons in the next day or so. Reply
Fanfoot - Monday, September 14, 2009 - linkThought provoking piece. Also enjoyed your many well argued riposts to the various trolls here. Nicely done. I quite enjoy the people who won't accept that IE8 is better at power saving than other browsers simply because they don't like it.
Power management is obviously just one of many reasons to choose a web browser. Personally the only thing I learned is you really shouldn't install Safari on a Windows Laptop. I'm planning to continue using Firefox for now. I'm too used to it, and all the plugins I use to switch FOR THE MOMENT. Reply
neogodless - Monday, September 14, 2009 - link"If there is interest, we may look at extending this testing two other laptops in the future" Reply
JarredWalton - Monday, September 14, 2009 - linkFixed, thanks. Bad speech recognition... BAD! Reply
strandbygaard - Monday, September 14, 2009 - linkInteresting experiment. Unfortunately, the article does not help us determine which is the more efficient browser. Lowest power usage DOES NOT equal most efficient!
"Work done per watt" is actually the metric we're interested in. "Work" being defined as the number of web pages you can load per watt (multiplied by the load time to get the power usage).
Consider this. If IE8 lets you run 10% longer, but Chrome gets you 40% more page views during the total runtime, it's rather obvious that Chrome would still be the most efficient choice.
What would be really interesting would be for AnandTech to redo the experiment while counting the number of page views, so we could determine the efficiency of each browser. Reply
JarredWalton - Monday, September 14, 2009 - linkThe test is set to load the three test pages every minute -- it's constant "user speed" simulation rather than maximum web page rendering rate. So in this instance, if two browsers ran for four hours, they rendered the same number of pages in that time.
If I wanted to test page views per Watt, I'd need to come up with a different test, and the results wouldn't be a realistic demonstration of how people use web browsers. You have to pause and read a page to know what's there; if you're just constantly reloading pages, you can make a battery life stress test but it is no longer anything approaching a realistic view of browser usage. IMO anyway. Reply
erple2 - Monday, September 14, 2009 - linkI suppose the only corollary to that is that the test assumes that every page takes (far) less than 1 minute to load. Otherwise the GP might have a point.
If it takes longer than 1 minute to reach "steady state", then it might become more of an issue as to which browser is more productive.
Perhaps to "truly" measure this, you would have the timer start at 1 minute after steady state is achieved, then count how many 1 minute steady state events exist. That would make for an oddly discrete number of trials, however. However, that might only really measure how much power each browser draws while rendering a page as a function of the total amount of time spent on a "trial". However, in keeping with the other benchmarks you've provided, it appears that the time of rendering is somewhat irrelevant.
Whew! Glad I don't have to design and run meaningful benchmarks! That's hard! Reply
postler - Sunday, September 13, 2009 - linkIt would be interesting to compare Opera using all of its features (bit torrent client, chat, email client) vs other browsers with seperate programs for these tasks. I suppose Opera is more power efficient compared to other browsers+email client+bittorrent client running. Reply
JarredWalton - Monday, September 14, 2009 - linkI don't think the majority of people are going to run a bittorrent client on battery power. However, this is not a review of browsers in general; it's just a look at battery life using the same surfing test on each one. Personally, I'm a Firefox guy and this isn't enough to convince me to look elsewhere. Reply
yourwhiteshadow - Sunday, September 13, 2009 - linkWhat about battery life on the new macbook pros w/various browsers? Also, I went to test out a 13.3" MBP at the apple store, and ran peacekeepeer on it. The $1499 version with 4 gb ram, 2.53 ghz proc, and 250 gb hdd got consistently got a lower score than the $1199 version which had 2 gb ram, 2.26 ghz proc, and 160 gb hard drive. Both ran the same video chipset. Any ideas as to what is going on? I ended up buying the $1199 one obviously, but still I'm a little curious. Reply
Voo - Sunday, September 13, 2009 - linkI'm astonished everytime I read a article with several pages of big colorfull benchmarks in it and then see people asking for evidence to backup the "claims" made at the end of the article..
Interesting article, though I knew before reading it that I wouldn't replace my FF. I'm just too customized to it - yep I know I'm ignorant, but after all the differences between the browsers are relativly small so I think I'll survive it ;)
But yes just out of courtesy I'd be interested in the same benchmarks run under OS X. Would be interesting to see how IE would fare there (I think Raymond Chen said once that the IE is more or less a GUI wrapped around several core dlls, which shouldn't work for OSX) Reply
coachingjoy - Sunday, September 13, 2009 - linkWell done.
Appears IE8 is good for something.
araczynski - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkthat was refreshingly, um, refreshing, and quite surprising, didn't think there'd be that much noticeable difference between the browsers in terms of battery life of all things.
still hate that each of them has their own stupid rendering quirks that they seem to believe themselves above eliminating. Reply
IntelUser2000 - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - link"None of these laptops would qualify as high-end solutions, mostly because we don't think users interested in battery life are going to be looking at high-end laptops."
That quote and this:
"Please note that unlike our normal battery life tests, we set the laptop on the Vista "Power Saver" profile instead of "Balanced", with the hard drive set to power down after 3 minutes and the maximum CPU performance set at 50%."
This is ridiculous. One of the most stupid and contradictory reviews ever seen on Anandtech. Sorry but please benchmark settings that people will use. Nobody is going to put "Power Saver" on a Core 2/Turion Notebook and enable "High" on a Atom Netbook. What's the point here? I mean you said the battery life difference was 6% for Power Saver vs. Balanced which isn't significant at all for performance sacrifice. Does it artificially inflate the score differences between browers? Have you tested to see if the positions change with different settings?
Again, what's the point of this review? Normally I'm very positive to Anandtech. This article isn't one that would show that. You could have at least put both results. Reply
JarredWalton - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkI'm not sure what your beef with the first quote is supposed to be. Do you think people buying high-end laptops with discrete graphics care about battery life? I don't. If you have a Core 2 Quad laptop and GTX 260M graphics, your battery life will stink regardless of browser, so I decided to look at several laptops that offer reasonable battery life and see if the choice of browser mattered. Moving on....
The "High" setting on the ASUS was not for the OS. That was set on "Portable/Laptop". The "High" setting is specifically for ASUS' Super Hybrid Engine, which underclocks the CPU and FSB if you leave it on "Auto". The CPU can still use SpeedStep, but it will stay on a 166MHz bus (667FSB) instead of SHE dropping it to 147MHz (588FSB). Mostly I did it to reduce the amount of time required to run the tests; at over seven hours per browser, running each twice, it already took more than a week of testing time. I don't have the 1005HA anymore (ASUS wanted it back), so I can't retest anything on it.
As I also mentioned, using "Balanced" instead of "Power Saver" gives you an extra 6% battery life - since that's what we're looking at for using different browsers, I figured it was a useful bonus. Also, I was running some of those tests for use in a future article, so I didn't want to repeat testing any more than necessary. Regardless, using Power Saver is hardly "ridiculous", and the comparison wasn't between AMD and Intel and Atom. That's why those results are on separate pages.
If you want apples-to-apples on browsers on each laptop, that's what I provided here. If you want to compare identical settings between different laptops, that's what I've always done in the standard notebook/netbook reviews. As far as I can tell, the power saving setting does not influence the individual browser results, though to be sure I would need to run every single test again with different settings. That's not something I really feel is necessary.
And FWIW, the "50%" setting in the advanced power options doesn't mean the CPU runs at half the maximum clock speed. CPUZ tells me otherwise. I've seen some laptops set that to "20%" or even "0%", and yet the systems still run. All I know for sure is that I used the same power settings on both Gateway systems. Since the 1005HA runs XP instead of Vista, there's already an inherent difference. I'll be looking at XP, Vista, and Win7 shortly, though, so stay tuned. Reply
IntelUser2000 - Monday, September 14, 2009 - linkAgain, you posted the reason I replied in the very first place. It's not my "beef" that whether people care about battery life on high end or not. It's that you put different settings on two kinds of portable devices for no reason(the Notebook and the Netbook). Why not keep them both on "Balanced"(or something equivalent).
"As far as I can tell, the power saving setting does not influence the individual browser results, though to be sure I would need to run every single test again with different settings. That's not something I really feel is necessary"
Then you should have tested with "Balanced" just like on the Atom Netbook. Because that would be the most common setting. Unlike "Balanced", "Power Saver" has a bit of performance to be sacrificed(I'm not arguing about the %ages).
I don't know why you did the "Power Saver" in the first place. As you say, its not 50% reduction(actually its even greater), but its some sort of performance reduction, and the possibility of that changing browser ratings was there.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=2...">http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=2... Reply
JarredWalton - Monday, September 14, 2009 - linkI do have "Maximum Battery" results for certain tests on the 1005HA, which I'll discuss in a different article. I'm not denying that "Power Saver" can impact performance, but your link is to tests of gaming on different power settings. Typical gaming performance is HORRIBLE on battery power, even on high-end notebooks, because the GPUs have to run in reduced power modes. The batteries simply can't provide enough juice to run everything at maximum performance.
Since "Power Saver" isn't always the same among laptops - you can customize a lot of settings - I don't know what was being tested specifically on that forum post. Was Max CPU at 50%, 20%, or something else? What about the GPU setting -- if ATI or NVIDIA GPUs are set to maximum battery, of course gaming performance is reduced. It could very well be that the problem with reduced FPS in those tests is from the GPU running slow rather than the CPU. Regardless, if you have the AC adapter connected, you can tweak the "Power Saver" AC settings to allow full performance while still giving maximum battery life when unplugged. For Internet surfing, the different power modes aren't as big of an impact on browser speed.
Anyway, it's an interesting test to look at, but with only so many hours in a day I have to pick and choose what to run. In this case, I ran the ASUS on the standard XP setting while I let the two Gateway setups get a boost in battery life.
Update: Okay, so I looked at the power numbers again, and it turns out that Power Saver can do far more than 6% increase on Vista, but the Max Battery option in XP didn't help out as much. Assuming I have all the settings correct, the NV52 improved by a whopping 30% by switching to "Power Saver", and the NV58 likewise improved by an impressive 25%. The ASUS 1005HA on the other had only showed an improvement of 7.5%. The 6% figure is for disabling the Super Hybrid Engine underclocking of the FSB, but I got it confused with the other scores. Sorry. Reply
jasperjones - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkYou state:
First, the margin of error between runs is around 3% because of network issues, website content, and fluctuation in battery discharging rates. That's why we ran each test at least twice, so the results above should be accurate to within around 1%, for the best-case results.
Assuming you base the margin of error on a 95% confidence interval, then a margin of error of 3% implies a standard error of roughly 1.5%. It then is utterly impossible mathematically to have accuracy within 1% when taking averages over two runs, considering the standard error is the population standard deviation over the square root of the sample size. (In plain English: to cut the standard error--and at the same time the margin of error--in half you need to go from 1 to 4 runs, as sqrt(4)=2.) Reply
JarredWalton - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkI did not average the runs, which I suppose creates some of the confusion, because averaging assumes that all runs are representative. Instead, my statement is based off of performing the tests several times for certain configurations.
The difference from highest to lowest time is around 3%, but I found that out of four runs I would usually get something like 156, 161, 160, and 159. Thus, if I'm only looking at the best-case result (161) the margin drops to around 1%. (i.e. 161 vs. 160 or 159).
Statistically, it may not be the best way of doing things, but I prefer focusing on a best-case result instead of running four or eight iterations of a test -- especially when each test run can take anywhere from 3 to 10 hours. Reply
ProDigit - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkThere's also the browser's loading speed.
The test does not show which pages where loaded.
Loading facebook, loading games in facebook like farmville, loading sites that show lots or little of flash based commercial,or gifs.
There are too many variables... A second thought to prove that these measurements are invalid...
I hate IE, don't use it, so you'll need to put up a lot more evidence and info for me to prove IE8 will be better than Firefox!
Numerous sites cited that FF is better than IE, loads faster, runs with a lower footprint, etc..
You telling the opposite need to spend more energy convincing the people.
As far as I see it now, indeed anandtech is payed by intel to get IE8 out... So not a single word of this article will I believe until I see more proof! Reply
JarredWalton - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkHonestly, I was surprised that IE8 had better battery life in most cases than the competition. But then, that's the whole point of the article: to investigate something people may not have considered. Despite criticisms of IE8 for being slow, it does manage to provide better battery life under stressful Flash browsing scenarios.
Saying a test is "invalid" because you disagree is not only pointless, but it misses the whole introduction where I explain upfront that the testing is only looking at one particular stressful scenario. There were no Flash games, but there were plenty of Flash advertisements on all three web sites used. If I had used the Google home page, it would be less strenuous. As stated, one site was AnandTech, which appears to have 2 to 4 ads on the home page. The other sites were similar in that they were news-based sites. AnandTech was set as the active tab in all cases.
If you'd like, send me a list of three pages and I can run one or two tests to see if your list is more or less stressful. But then I don't know why I should spend energy on someone who is already convinced these results are invalid, simply because he disagrees with the measured results. Tell you what: go download and install this list of browsers and do a test that proves my results are wrong and we can talk more. Reply
ProDigit - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkI think these results are invalid!
Simply because it's been proven on chippy's website umpcportal.com that on netbooks, the adblock definitely adds battery life to Firefox!
Second,adblock often blocks ads that are flash based,which internet explorer 8 will show regardless (IE does not have many good 'free' adblockers).
So in other words,simple logic tells me these benchmarks are invalid. Reply
JarredWalton - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkYour "simple logic" is a bit too simple. You can see that Firefox with AdBlock does indeed improve battery life on the two faster laptops, but IE8 still comes out ahead. As stated, it appears IE8 being tied into the OS at a lower level helps them to use less CPU time... or perhaps it's just the Flash ActiveX version instead of whatever Flash setup Firefox and other browsers use. Obviously, Flash is a very weak point for Safari 4 under Windows.
As for UMPCportal proving this is "wrong", I assume you mean http://www.umpcportal.com/2008/12/save-battery-lif...">this post -- which is actually a reference to http://www.sectheory.com/browser-power-consumption...">a different site. SecTheory tested using a Kill-A-Watt meter, and that's not the same as testing battery life. I've noticed that when you switch to battery power, it does more than just use the same amount of power that you measure through a Kill-A-Watt unit. (It's something I show in every laptop review.)
Ultimately, your simple logic falls short because it was too simple. Logically, I'm sure there are other ways of improving battery life not investigated (yet). AdBlock Plus is rather heavy when it comes to processing HTML, since it has at present several hundred regular expressions/pattern to check. However, it's also the easiest way to get comprehensive ad blocking and it takes no effort to set it up. If I made a custom filter and only blocked ads from the three test sites, things would be better, especially on netbooks where the Atom CPU had to work really hard processing the ABP list.
In other words, the benchmarks aren't "invalid"; they just show that you should check your assumptions at the door, and they show that AdBlock Plus may not be the most power efficient means of blocking ads. If you have suggestions on some better alternatives (preferably something easily configured), I'm more than happy to hear them. Reply
ciukacz - Monday, September 14, 2009 - linkyou could try http://adsweep.org/">http://adsweep.org/ Reply
JumpingJack - Sunday, September 13, 2009 - link:) There are fanboys and then there are fanboys, but fanboy's for web browswers? What is the world coming to :) ....
trochevs - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkI was wondering what is the impact of the fact that IE is build into the OS. There are several libraries that are part of the IE (ActiveX and HTML rendering DLLs) that are running at all time. So when you test Firefox you are actually running Firefox + part of IE. Can we come with test that shows the impact?
Also instead of reloading the same page, can we just load new page? That seem more realistic browsing pattern.
Best regards,
SAL-e Reply
JarredWalton - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkTechnically the test starts the browser with the browser configured to load the three test web sites. After 60 seconds, it kills the browser process and waits a bit before starting it again. I tried Firefox with "ReloadEvery" enabled and found that it got worse battery life, so I stuck with the method described for all the browsers. It's also more strenuous than a test that cycles through a set series of pages I'd imagine, because of the starting/stopping of the browsers, though all of the necessary data is cached after the first loop so it probably doesn't make that much of a difference. (All the browsers restart almost immediately.)
As for testing with IE ripped out and the DLLs disabled, I'm not quite sure how to accomplish that. Suggestions? Reply
trochevs - Saturday, September 19, 2009 - linkI have played with different test scenarios, but finding practical one proves to be impossible. The only test I can come are only for academic research and most likely will raise more questions then answers.
scenario #1: I have read several articles on the Internet that using tool nLite you can remaster Windows XP CD and remove the IE, but I think we are going to test crippled and practically useless OS.
scenario #2: I don't know about IE8, but IE7 could be installed under WINE on Linux. Repeat the same test without Safari. The problem with this test is that result could not be compared with your current test because:
1. Impact on power usage by the entire OS will be bigger then the browsers.
2. IE will be in disadvantage position by default because will run under WINE. Although there could be some surprises here. In some very specific cases some Windows programs run faster under WINE compared to Windows. Also we can test Firefox running under WINE as reference.
Of course all this is pure academic research. On the second thought repeating this test under Linux could give some real answers how Linux is compared to Windows. Reply
fsardis - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkwhy is it that on this site the authors cannot get this expression right? it is annoying. when you say something is anything but, you mean that it is anything except. so if the browser wars seemed anything except ended, why do you go in the next sentence and describe the opposite?
Learn basic english first, then write articles. Even Anand got this wrong on his latest SSD article. Bloody irritating every single time. Reply
andrihb - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkI thought "anything but" meant exactly the same as "anything except". Reply
fsardis - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkYes, it does mean "everything except". So tell my why the author writes: "Seven years ago, the browser wars seemed all but ended",
which is defined by Oxford Dictionary as "The browser wars seemed all except over" and then proceeds to explain: "AOL bought out Netscape, Microsoft Internet Explorer dominated the market, and the era of browser-based exploits began", which in simple words translates to: "The competition is dead and IE won".
So tell me, how i it possible for the war to be anything except over and in the next sentence to explain how the war is actually over?
And you got the idiot below trying to defend it when I live right in the centre of London and I am holding the bloody dictionary in my hands. (And that one is for the retard who said I am a hillbilly). Reply
erple2 - Monday, September 14, 2009 - linkSo your argument is hinging on your notion that:
"Seven years ago, the browser wars seemed all but ended."
means the same thing as:
"Seven years ago, the browser wars seemed anything but ended."
? If not, then I don't understand the first sentence in your second paragraph:
"So tell me, how i it possible for the war to be anything except over and in the next sentence to explain how the war is actually over?"
Jarred didn't say that the war is "anything except over". That was you that misinterpreted what was said. In fact, it is quite clearly:
"all but ended"
Which according to previous posts, you correctly surmise that the expression means the same as "everything except ended". But certainly not "anything except ended".
You are therefore, incorrect in your statement. Accept it and move on. Reply
JarredWalton - Sunday, September 13, 2009 - linkYou need to read your dictionary a bit more closely. You say it means "everything short of" but then you misunderstand what that means. Everything short of ended would mean it's nearly over. You keep using phrases that mean the exact opposite of that. "Anything except" and "everything except" are not synonyms, they're antonyms -- certainly not in the US.
I wouldn't go to a UK based site and try to make them conform to US English, but if you like picking fights go right ahead. People in the US use the phrase as I used it. Sorry if that offends you, but if you're that easily offended by my use of the English language I would guess you have bigger issues to deal with. Reply
whatthehey - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkForewarning: The following is a rude response. Why? As the saying goes, "when in Rome...." I figure if you're going to talk to a troll at all, you need to use their language. Yes, I kicked the chastising up a notch, if only because someone had the gall to post a comment criticizing a writer when in fact they are 100% in the wrong due to a lack of reading comprehension skills. With that disclaimer out of the way....
There's nothing like being wrong whilst screaming at the top of your lungs, eh fsardis? Instead of being a stupid twit, why don't you do a bit of research. And speaking of annoying, you can't even use proper capitalization and have the balls to complain about the writing of Jarred and Anand. Bloody hypocrite! Okay children, time for class....
Oops... look at that: you're wrong fsardis! You'll find that the phrase "all but" is a synonym for "almost", "just about", "nearly", or even "well-nigh". You probably think the last is also incorrect, just because you've never used it, right?
What's truly amazing is that you rip off a post like yours complaining about Jarred's use of a phrase, but then you make a mistake and don't even copy the phrase properly! Look at the first sentence (which you managed to quote in the subject at least): "The browser wars seemed all but ended...." You then lambaste Jarred for saying "anything but" which means the exact opposite. If you had paused to reflect for a minute why he would describe the exact opposite after that opening statement, or maybe even tried Google, you could have saved yourself some embarrassment. In 2002, the browsers wars were most certainly "nearly ended" or "all but over" or "practically finished". That's what the introduction used as a starting point, and all you could do is get hung up on a phrase your puny little brain didn't grasp.
Maybe you should have paused to think for a minute before acting like a stupid troll, but I don't suppose trolls are good at thinking. Perhaps you ought to try learning to read/write English at something approaching the level of an educated adult before critiquing people for not dumbing down their text to a sixth grade level. I'm probably being too harsh, as phrases like "all but ended" aren't encountered much in the backwaters of hillbilly communities. It's probably hard for someone who's never left Essex to understand, but...oh, never mind; I'm done. Reply
fsardis - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkoh by the way, "anything but" and "all but" mean exactly the same damn thing you inbred redneck. Reply
JarredWalton - Sunday, September 13, 2009 - linkNo. No they don't. Does "anything" mean the same as "all"? Does "everything" mean the same as "anything"? I'll give you the use of "except" in place of "but" for this phrase, but to suggest I replace a two syllable phrase with a 5/6 syllable phrase (assuming you want to be snobbish and pronounce "everything" as ev-er-ee-thing instead of ev-ree-thing) is at best a stylistic difference of opinion and at worst flame bait. Living in London doesn't actually make you a master of the English language.
If you want to prove me wrong, you're going to have to do it with links that show how my usage is improper rather than vague statements like, "I have an Oxford English dictionary in my lap and I'm in downtown London, so I bloody well know what I'm talking about!" Right now you've given nothing other than your own opinion to show you're right, along with claims of references that support you. At least whatthehey had some links to some site, but of course your "superior" opinion is that the linked site is wrong as well. So far, I haven't even seen anything that supports your opinion -- not even with the help of Google.
Here's a US reference to support my cause. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/all%20bu..." target="_blank">Definition: "all but". Merriam-Webster supports my usage as meaning "nearly", and indeed in 2002 the browser wars were nearly over. The only usage I've heard for "anything but" is in a phrase like, "Please don't cry - anything but that! I can't take crying." Obviously, that usage isn't anything like "all but" or "nearly". "Anything but" conveys a message of being far from something. "This vacation has been anything but fun, what with the bad weather, car problems, and trolls running rampant in the forums."
Now quit the trolling and keep things civil and we can all get along. Reply
whatthehey - Sunday, September 13, 2009 - linkWell said Jarred. With every response fsardis only proves more completely that he's a complete asshat.
"I first saw this misuse of the expression on the internet and it seems there are many places it is incorrectly explained." Clearly you're not well read, as the phrase has been around for a hell of a lot longer than the Internet!
"The entire UK uses the expression 'all but' as a way to say 'all except'." Congratulation to the entire UK, except that we're discussing "all but" and you started saying "anything but", you stupid twat. Go back and reread your post. Even better is this:
"Oxford Definition of 'all but' is as follows straight from the book: 'all but: everything short of'." Exactly. Do you not even know how to understand your own dictionary? Let's try this: "Seven years ago, the browser wars seemed everything short of ended." See, right there it's just as if he had written "nearly" in place of "all but"! You're putting your foot in your mouth so hard, it's a wonder you can breathe!
"Now if it means 'anything short of', then saying 'all but over' means 'anything short of over', which means it is not over at all if it is anything in the whole world apart from being over." You're right, but once again you're making a huge mistake because you just changed the bloody Oxford English definition from "everything short of" to "anything short of". Damn you're thick in the head! Are you such a cursed moron that you don't know that "everything" and "anything" have completely different meanings? Even in the UK, they mean different things.
Stop substituting words that aren't equivalent and you'll avoid digging the hole you're in any deeper.
And the coup de grace: "And you got the idiot below trying to defend it when I live right in the centre of London and I am holding the bloody dictionary in my hands." That's like trying to say you're smart because you're from New York (lots of dumb people there as well, considering the millions that live there). Thanks for letting us all know that there are people in London with a bloody dictionary in their hands, and they can read it, and yet THEY STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT IT SAYS!
Even a poor online translation to another language gets it right. In German, Bablefish suggests "Vor sieben Jahren, alle schienen Browserskriege als beendet." Close enough for our purposes. Put that back into English and you get: "Seven years before, all browser wars seemed as terminated." That's closer than your silly "anything except ended" mistranslation.
Perhaps I'm the only one that's reminded of a recent Dilbert comic. Who know that the English forum trolls could also be PHBs?
http://www.dilbert.com/fast/2009-09-04/">http://www.dilbert.com/fast/2009-09-04/ "BE WRONG FSARDIS! JUST BE WRONG!" And you are definitely wrong, whether you admit it or not. Reply
Pirks - Tuesday, September 15, 2009 - linkYeah, fsardis is a total fuckup cockoo type of guy, don't pay attention to him. Very well known troll he is ;) Gooood to see this stupid fsardis twit pwned thoroughly here, hehehe :)) Reply
fsardis - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkYou are a total idiot. Learn english. The site you linked is just as wrong as you are. Just to enlighten you of your own idiocy, the entire UK uses the expression "all but" as a way to say "all except".
I first saw this misuse of the expression on the internet and it seems there are many places it is incorrectly explained. I suggest you pick up a real dictionary on paper written by some people at Oxford and open up your eyes before you go and ridicule yourself on the internet by linking sites that are anytihng but intelligent.
Oxford Definition of "all but" is as follows straight from the book: "all but: everything short of"
Now if it means "anything short of", then saying "all but over" means "anything short of over", which means it is not over at all if it is anything in the whole world apart from being over.
Or is this way too complicated for your shoe size IQ? Reply
jojo4u - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkIE8 is beste because the Flash ActiveX Plugin is the most performant. The other browsers under Windows are still ok, but with OS X and Linux this bites you hard. Reply
yyrkoon - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkI suspect, but have no numbers to prove that Chrome uses more battery because it is faster. I have been using Firefox previous to Chrome at least close to when it came out. Lately, I have been using Chrome 2, and now that it works with the websites I frequent it is noticeably faster. Sites with lots of images load a lot faster, and the browser just seems more responsive. I have given consideration to trying Firefox mobile though. This could be a different story.
Chrome does also seem to have its own flaws, but from what I have been seeing lately they are small. One would be the DNS pool cache problem I have read that Firefox also exhibits. A simple ipconfig /flushdns while elevated seems to do the job though. Between the two, I of course pick Chrome, because performance is what I am after.
IE has not even been a consideration in my book for a very long time, and I would rip it out if I could. Especially a browser that is *still* integral to the OS, which I am scratching my head as to why this is legal( again ). Maybe I Need a German licensed copy ? Oh well.
They all look fine to me though. Aesthetically. Well at least the top 3. Reply
blackshard - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkHi, maybe Chrome is compiled with some atom optimizations. I mean, common x86 processors have enough horsepower for anything, instead Atoms are still not so powerful, so *maybe* Chrome could have been optimized to help the "weaks", since the stronger processors don't need such help.
I still like firefox, as it is a multi-platform software and still has very optimized code. It's really not common seeing such an optimization grade in multi-platform software. Reply
yyrkoon - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkThis is not using an Atom based system, this is on a T3400 based laptop with 4GB of RAM in Vista Home Premium. Also did some comparisons on a much older P4 2.4Ghz laptop I had as well. Even more noticeable on the P4, but still a big difference of time on both systems. Nothing was done "scientifically", but a person would have to have no concept of time not to see the differences. Think of the differences between nearly instant vs. several more seconds.
Now, this noticeable difference was a few months ago, so maybe things have changed more recently. However, it seems to me that the graphics rendering routines are more optimized, or were in Chrome. Having done some development with graphics myself, I could see this happening, but can not say for sure that this is actually the case. Reply
llongbourne - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkI run Portable Firefox from a RAM disk. I'd like to believe that it increases battery life through reduced HDD use, but of course I'm not equipped for any kind of rigorous comparison.
I'd be interested to see this setup included, not least because it improves the speed of a number of browsing actions too. (I've written briefly here with the details.) Reply
llongbourne - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkSorry, link didn't embed. It's here:
http://logantravels.blogspot.com/2009/08/browsing-...">http://logantravels.blogspot.com/2009/08/browsing-... Reply
Nihility - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkI guess IE8 can still be good for some things (besides being the only browser that displays my bank's website properly).
I'm also surprised by how big of an impact web browsing (heavy) in general has on power usage. Maybe we can make a push for leaner "green" websites. Sites that use a minimal streamlined design without too much eye candy (not just basic html).
This was a good article.
I wonder why you didn't benchmark Chrome 4.0 and Firefox 3.6. Yes they're betas (alphas/pres) but they're generally stable an a large chunk of the enthusiast community is using them. And if they show any improvident over the previous versions I would expect even more to migrate to them. Reply
RamarC - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkI've never found browser speed really that important. There's a point when it's fast enough and saving 0.5s doesn't really matter to me. I generally use IE8 and Chrome and can't really say that one is faster than the other but it's reassuring to know that neither is needlessly shortening my battery life just to win 'performance' bragging rights. Reply
JarredWalton - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkI started testing this a few weeks back and just went with the major releases. Opera was the exception, where I tested 10b3. I don't have the 1005HA any more so I can't test that, but I can run some tests on the two Gateway setups. I'll try to do that this weekend and add results. Reply
hechacker1 - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkDoes the Power Saver profile really save battery life for bursty web browsing? I thought CPU's are most efficient when they can clock up to 100% to quickly finish the task and go back to sleep. At 50% they could be taking 50% longer but at a lower voltage than max? (Probably more complicated depending on multiplier and voltage ratios). Reply
JarredWalton - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkMy tests indicate that the battery life improved by about 6% with "Power Saver" instead of "Balanced". That's only on three laptops, but it was consistent so I ran all of the tests under that mode. I would assume the cause may be that web traffic doesn't really need 100% CPU most of the time. Reply
Voldenuit - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkI have Opera 10 + flashblock on by default on my laptop since I don't care to have flash waste my processor cycles (and battery) unless it's something I specifically want to see.
I understand it's a lot harder to benchmark this scenario (perhaps you could turn flashblock on then off for 50% of the test via a script to emulate selective flash loading), but I am curious to see how it shapes up. Anecdotally, I find I get 20-30 minutes more battery life on my thinkpad X300 with flashblock on, but then I'm doing more than just browsing on the laptop in this time.
neogodless - Monday, September 14, 2009 - link"If there is interest, we may look at extending this testing two[/] other laptops in the future" Reply
Googer - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkThese tests leave out Opera's ad filtering and thus leaves out a directo comparioson/competitor to Firefox+Adblock Reply
JarredWalton - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkI would assume not having Flash at all (or not playing it by default) would improve battery life by a fair amount. I'll see if I can do some tests with no Flash (or a Flash blocking plug-in) to see if it makes a difference. If it moves the content more to the "Light" end of the spectrum, that could make for a difference of up to 33%. Reply
therealnickdanger - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkI'd be really interested to see the impact of using a modified HOSTS file would have on battery life:
http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm">http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/hosts.htm Reply
Granseth - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkOpera 10 has something called turbo mode to accelerate netsurfing on a slow connection. Could be interesting to know if that would help or hinder batterylife too Reply
solipsism - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkCould you do comparative tests of browsers under OS X? If I can save 10% power while forced to use my battery I'll likely do it based on your results. Also, do using plugins like ClickToFlash in Safari on OS X have any overhead that negate any power savings from turning off Flash? Reply
orthorim - Thursday, September 17, 2009 - linkYES, please test Mac too. I run OS X so the tests on Windows are meaningless to me. Presumably, Safari on OS X will be much more optimized than on Windows, and Firefox will be totally different as well.
I'd like to see Safari + ClickToFlash because that's what I am running every day. And Firefox with and without Flashblock
Flash should make a huge difference on OS X because it's so poorly implemented by Adobe. Even simple Flash animations use lots of CPU on OS X, whereas on Windows they are hardly noticeable. I want to see how much ClickToFlash/Flashblock help, and which browser is the best.
Chrome Beta
Opera (?!)
Thanks! Reply
ltcommanderdata - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkIf you do run browser battery life tests in OS X, can you make sure to try Safari in both 32-bit and 64-bit modes? I don't expect the browser itself to affect battery life that much between the 2 modes, but 64-bit Safari is capable of playing Flash content. I believe 64-bit Safari is still using the standard 32-bit Flash plugin, but as a separate process, giving crash stability, and using InterProcess Communication to connect the 2. I'm thinking the IPC link in 64-bit mode may use more CPU cycles reducing battery life. Reply
JarredWalton - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkTalk to Ryan and Anand - they're the Mac OS X people. I don't have a Mac at my place, or I'd be happy to run the tests. :-) Reply
GeorgeH - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkIf Anand or Ryan decides to run browser tests on a Mac, they might also want to redo the test where Anand found that OSX 10.5.7 had vastly superior battery life to Vista. Given how poorly Safari under Windows did here, the methodology of that test becomes suspect.
In that article Anand found that Vista running Safari offered ~75% of the battery life of OSX running Safari. Here you find that Safari under Windows offers ~75-80% of the battery life of IE (and most other "typical" Windows browsers.) Given the similarity of those numbers, perhaps Anand should have concluded that Safari/Vista is inferior to Safari/OSX, and not that OSX was the superior OS in general.
http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3582">http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3582 Reply
solipsism - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkI think that when doing OS comparisons that IE8 on Windows v. Safari 4 on OS X, then the same version of Firefox on each OS would be the most apt. Reply
foolsgambit11 - Sunday, September 13, 2009 - linkMaybe not. It's difficult to tell how optimized FF would be for each platform, while testing each OS maker's proprietary browser would ensure they've both done their best to ensure maximum optimization. Of course, ideally, the benchmarks would also test FF to see how well it does on each platform. Reply
JarredWalton - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkAnand's testing didn't use heavy Flash content, and that appears to be the primary issue with Safari 4 under Windows. If I switch to static images and text without Flash, as you would expect CPU usage drops to nothing after the pages finish loading. Reply
GeorgeH - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkThat's a very valid point, but doesn't quite address what I was trying to get at.
What I was trying to say is that by simply using "poorly optimized" (or however you want to phrase it) software on Vista, your battery life can drop significantly. Anand tested OS battery life by running two programs that were designed for OSX, not Vista, and found that the Vista performance deficit was almost exactly the same as the one you found by running "poorly optimized" software.
That the cuplrit in your case was almost certainly Flash (which Anand didn't run) is relevant, but doesn't address the idea that by running software in an environment that it wasn't designed/optimized for it is possible to significantly impact your battery life. To quote myself from the other article:
"I doubt it will make much difference, but in the interest of fair play I too would like to see the tests [OSX v. Vista] redone [using standard Vista programs]." Reply
JarredWalton - Saturday, September 12, 2009 - linkI would agree. Given time I'm sure Anand will get to it. However, even though results under Vista may improve, my testing with Vista laptops tends to confirm the poor battery life he measured. I mean, at idle in Vista I still get worse battery life than OSX got surfing the net (granted not on a MacBook). Reply
orthorim - Thursday, September 17, 2009 - linkI use the Mac but if you are testing Windows, test Windows 7. Who cares about Vista? It's going to be replaced in less than a month. Reply
eiko027 - Saturday, August 14, 2010 - linkASUS Eee PC 1005HA and ASUS Eee PC 1000HE , which is better Reply
eiko027 - Saturday, August 14, 2010 - linkhttp://www.battery-center.net/asus-eee-pc-1005ha-b... Reply
eiko027 - Saturday, August 14, 2010 - linkhttp://www.battery-center.net/asus-eee-pc-1005ha-b... Reply
cavin - Tuesday, October 26, 2010 - linkhttp://www.battery-retail.com/sony-vgp-bps8-batter... Reply


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Rapper Riff Raff is goin' country
Listen to Riff Raff on iHeartRadio
(TMZ) - Riff Raff has pulled a Kid Rock ... jumping ship in the rap game to pursue COUNTRY music -- and he's even changing his name to something a lot more down home, reports TMZ.
Raff just recorded a song called "Take U Away" -- which he'll release shortly -- and he tells TMZ, it's recorded under the name Jody Highroller.
He'll continue to use Riff Raff as his rap name.
Raff's new song is a little pitchy, but it's catchy as hell ... and it was produced by Dame Grease, one of DMX's go-to producers. TMZ reports Raff's country ambitions are also backed by Diplo ... one of the top producers on the planet.
Riff Raff -- who hails from Houston, TX -- insists it's not a joke, telling TMZ, "I love country music ... I'm good at it and it's a good fit."
So we gotta ask ...
Photo Credit Getty Images


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It's plain to any reader of Bliss T Blake's Jan. 6, 2006 letter to the New Mexico Attorney General's Office that the San Juan County resident is steamed. According to Blake, he was kicked off his local ditch management board because he wanted to tape-record the proceedings.
"The board that is now running the show has not been forthcoming," Blake writes. "I have tried to get them to advise me as to when their regular meetings are and they refuse to tell me. I have asked them to post their meetings and they won't."
Five months passed before the Attorney General's Office (AG) sent the Eledge Ditch Board its first letter of inquiry. The board ignored that letter, as well as a faxed follow-up. It finally responded a year later, by phone, to tell the AG that Blake had passed away.
Case closed.
That was how it went down when Patricia Madrid was attorney general. Her successor, Gary King, campaigned in 2008 on stricter enforcement of open government laws, which fall under the AG's domain.
Those laws include the Open Meetings Act (OMA), which guarantees citizens' rights to witness political meetings, and the Inspection of Public Records Act (IPRA), which protects citizens' rights to view documents produced by government agencies.
Once in office, King's staff even wrote a posthumous letter of chastisement to the Eledge Ditch Board—15 months after Blake filed his complaint.
Leonard DeLayo, the executive director of the New Mexico Foundation for Open Government (FOG), says for the most part King has held true to his promise to champion open government.
"I think the King administration is a lot more aggressive than the Madrid administration was in dealing with matters," DeLayo tells SFR. "Gary does seem to believe in IPRA and OMA far more than Patsy did…"
Nonetheless, DeLayo agrees with critics that the attorney general "is very slow in coming to determinations."
Those determinations refer to complaints the AG receives when an individual (or group) believes the OMA and IPRA haven't been upheld, as in Blake's case.
Last week, Gov. Bill Richardson signed a bill into law that allows citizens to send IPRA requests by email (King supported the measure). DeLayo says allowing electronic public records requests could increase the number of overall requests filed.
It remains to be seen if digital technology will speed up the AG's response time to such complaints. Right now, it takes between three and six months to resolve the complaints.
This prolonged time frame occurs despite the online database King's administration ushered in to allow constituents to track the progress of OMA/IPRA complaints.
As of April 1, 2009, the database contained a total 151 OMA/IPRA cases, 55 of which were listed as still pending. Among those open cases, 26 were more than a year old, seven were more than two years old and one was more than three years old.
Presented with the data, Communications Director Phil Sisneros claimed all of the "outstanding" cases were actually closed. Sisneros then granted SFR access to the state's internal complaint database, which shows that the entire online site is outdated and inaccurate.
"Keep in mind that we did a different thing in terms of trying to corral all these together so people could go online and track their complaints," Sisneros, who takes credit for the site, says. "Is it a perfect system? I doubt it. But it was better than what we had before."
According to the internal database, the office has logged 131 IPRA complaints and 101 OMA complaints since 2006. Of those, SFR was only able to identify approximately 20 in which the AG determined an agency had violated the law. Although the office has the authority to level fines, King has not penalized a single agency for OMA/ IPRA violations since taking office.
"The attorney general's office is worthless," Diogenes' Six Blogger Ched MacQuigg (ched-macquigg.blogspot.com) says. "There is no way to follow your complaint and they just seem to disappear."
MacQuigg has four IPRA complaints on record: two against Albuquerque Public Schools and one each for the Bernalillo County Sheriff's Office and the second judicial district attorney.
"It is always the same story: feigned ignorance of the law, followed by endless exchanges that always take the maximum time allowed by law," MacQuigg says. "The only recourse is to sue them yourself, in which case you're up against a fleet of lawyers who are working on the public dime to litigate against the public interests."
Private investigator Eric Griego chose the trial route. In 2007, he won a $117,500 settlement from the New Mexico Taxation & Revenue Department in an IPRA case. Griego claims the attorney general has failed to act on several other IPRA complaints he filed.
"All my [complaints] are more than a year old and yet I have not received the records and the attorney general has failed in its duty to enforce," Griego says. "I thought that, after losing the largest public records lawsuit in the state's history, the [Taxation & Revenue] department would take inspection requests seriously. That's clearly not the case."
Zachary Shandler, deputy director of the AG's Civil Division and the assistant attorney general who handled Griego's cases, initially told SFR he had closed all Griego's cases after the detective sent a letter withdrawing his complaints. Shandler even closed an unrelated complaint against the Bernalillo County Treasurer's Office—even though his office had already determined there had been a violation of the law.
Griego provided SFR with evidence that his letter only withdrew two of several open complaints. After a second look at the records, Shandler told SFR he would be willing to reopen both the Taxation & Revenue Department and Bernalillo County Treasurer's Office cases.
Private investigator Robert Homic says he's run into similar problems with the complaints he's filed against the New Mexico Private Investigator and Polygraph Board, a division of the New Mexico Regulation and Licensing Department. In his case, the attorney general closed the case before investigating evidence that RLD had destroyed records rather than comply with IPRA.
"The whole 'investigation' felt like a big cover-up," Hamic tells SFR.
But some constituents are extremely satisfied with the AG's performance, including Robert Stearns, a volunteer with Verified Voting New Mexico, who filed several requests for ballot box security information with the Office of the Secretary of State.
"We had asked for the records from the secretary of state and got no response," Stearns says. "So, we went to [FOG] and they advised us to go to the attorney general and, in all these cases, the attorney
general came through…They went to bat for us with the state officials in these departments we were dealing with, and they did an excellent job."
Most IPRA cases are closed once a complainant receives the requested documents
or, with OMA cases, when a government body holds a do-over open meeting. However, that same complainant can receive significant damages—up to $100 per day—but only if the case is filed in civil court before the agency remedies the problem.
Complainants aren't likely to see either the AG or FOG pushing for restitution. DeLayo, who took over at the foundation after the 2007 death of its founder and executive director, Robert Johnson, says he's less litigious than Johnson was.
"We've tried to become more of an educational institution in advising people in advance so that they don't violate the law," he says.
DeLayo adds that FOG hasn't filed suit since he was appointed its director in 2007.


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Within a Christian community, the Louise Herrington School of Nursing prepares nurses for professional practice, health care leadership and service to society.
Alexander Hall was opened on September 13, 1940, and currently provides housing for the Honors Residential College.
All University Sing has been a tradition since 1953. Student organizations perform 7-minute, Broadway style productions in competition with one another.
The McLean Foyer of Meditation within the Armstrong Browning Library takes its inspiration from Leighton House in London.
Opened in 1999, Baylor Ballpark (part of the Turner Riverfront Complex) is one of the finest collegiate baseball facilities in the nation.
Students voted in 1914 to name the bear the official "Patron Saint of all Baylordom."
Judge Joy Reynolds ("Joy") and Judge Sue Sloan ("Lady") currently serve as Baylor's mascots.
Baylor faithful cheer the Bears and Lady Bears to victory in regular and postseason play in the Ferrell Center.
Established in 1857, the Baylor Law School moved into the beautiful Sheila & Walter Umphrey Law Center in 2001. The facility is situated on the banks of the Brazos River.
Baylor Line Camp provides incoming students their first high-energy experience and introduction to traditions.
Baylor students serve in ministry opportunities year-round to understand and use the knowledge and skills they gain at Baylor to serve people around the world.
Baylor is like few other institutions - set apart by an unwavering Christian identity, an enduring dedication to transformative education, and a strong and growing commitment to research.
The design of the Baylor Sciences Building supports diverse teaching and learning styles in an atmosphere which encourages learning both inside and outside the classroom and laboratory.
The Baylor Sciences Building creates a connection between the traditional science departments, encouraging an interactive science community and supporting multidisciplinary collaborations in research and teaching.
Following the tradition of Burleson and Old Main, the Baylor Sciences Building is adorned with iconic spires.
The spires of Burleson and Old Main join with the silhouette of Pat Neff to create a remarkable skyline.
The Bearathon has earned a reputation as the "The Toughest Half-Marathon in the State of Texas."
Brooks College is a unique residential college at Baylor University that draws on lasting traditions, and orienting students toward meaningful relationships within a vital intellectual community.
In the Baptist tradition of Baylor University, the Robbins Chapel provides a spiritually inspiring location for personal or small group worship and prayer.
Erected in 1887 and dedicated to "female education and piety," Burleson Hall originally housed a female dormitory named in honor of President Rufus Burleson's wife, Georgia. Burleson Hall is currently home to the School of Education.
Few locations at Baylor are more beautiful or more photographed than Burleson Quadrangle.
Burleson Quadrangle, including Old Main and Burleson Hall, is framed by Carroll Library to the east and Carroll Science Hall to the west.
Carroll Science Hall, a Baylor addition nearly 15 years after Old Main and Burleson Hall, is the beautiful home to several Arts and Sciences programs.
Baylor is large enough to offer the academic challenge students need and small enough to care about each student as an individual.
The Center for Professional Selling in the Hankamer School of Business is recognized as one of the premier information and leadership resources for collegiate students and sales professionals in the nation.
The annual tree lighting ceremony is one the central events of the Christmas season at Baylor.
The culmination of the Baylor experience is commencement, when students receive their coveted diplomas and are commissioned for worldwide leadership and service.
The Courtside Players rev up volleyball and basketball crowds inside the Ferrell Center.
"The Day of the Bear," otherwise known as Diadeloso, started in 1934 as a way to "bring smiles to the faces of students" by giving them a break from classes.
Concerts, games, competitions, and even camels highlight the annual "Day of the Bear" festivities.
Research at Baylor offers graduate students the ability to learn alongside world-class faculty who enjoy an atmosphere in which research, teamwork, and faith are valued.
Beginning as a single day in 1960, this special event provides a unique opportunity to introduce the University to parents and family members.
Located between Waco Hall and Pat Neff Hall, Founders Mall is dedicated to the three men whose vision and leadership brought Christian higher education to Texas.
The vision of Rev. William Milton Tryon, Rev. James Huckins and District Judge R.E.B. Baylor are honored at Founders Mall.
Thousands of faculty, staff, students and their families have passed through the beautiful Baylor campus.
Freshman Follies is designed to give students a break after the first few weeks of school and allows them time to bond with their fellow freshmen over food fights, games, shaving cream wars, music and a dunking booth.
Getterman Stadium opened in 1999 and houses one of the nation's premier collegiate softball programs.
George W. Truett Theological Seminary is a traditional, evangelical seminary committed to our historic Baptist principles.
Baylor's Habitat for Humanity chapter was the first collegiate chapter in the country, and it has remained an excellent opportunity for students to reach out and help the local community.
Since Nov. 24, 1909, the Baylor Homecoming parade has been a first-class extravaganza of color.
HOWDY is Baylor's official TEXAS welcome and celebrates everything Baylor and everything Texas.
Island Party began in 1999 as an outlet for Baylor students and the Waco community to both worship and come together to witness God's power.
Hooper-Schaefer is home to the Baylor theatre and art departments and includes three state-of-the-art theater spaces.
Jones Concert Hall of the School of Music is a majestic, 1,000-seat hall located in the Glennis McCrary Music Building.
The statue of Judge R.E.B. Baylor was unveiled on Feb. 1, 1939, and and honors the university's namesake.
Checked another one off the "bucket list."
Established in 2001, Late Night gives new students the opportunity to meet leaders from more than 160 student organizations and learn about the many opportunities for campus involvement.
Opened in May 2004, the Sue and Frank Mayborn Natural Science and Cultural History Museum Complex brings together the resources of the Harry and Anna Jeanes Discovery Center and the Gov. Bill and Vara Daniel Historic Village.
Located on the banks of the Brazos River the 45,000-seat McLane Stadium is home to Baylor Bear football.
Each season, thousands of green- and gold-clad Bear fans fill McLane Stadium for Big 12 Conference action.
The McLane Student Life Center is the hub of student recreational life at Baylor.
The McMullen-Connally Faculty Center provides spacious and modern dining for faculty, executive staff, prospective faculty candidates and visiting speakers.
As the sun sets on Baylor's campus, memorial lampposts adorned with Baylor banners light the ways of time.
Minglewood Bowl sits nestled between Brooks College and Brooks Flats along Waco Creek and is a favorite student hang-out.
Minglewood Bowl is a popular location for pick-up football games.
For 20 years, Baylor students have joined with Mission Waco for Church Under the Bridge, a ministry of worship and service with people of diverse backgrounds.
Moody Library is one of several Baylor libraries that together house over 2.5 million bound volumes as well as numerous electronic resources.
Old Main was completed in 1887 and served as Baylor's sole academic building to represent learning and progression for the expanding country.
One of the earliest structures on campus, Old Main originally housed classrooms, a library, laboratories, a studio and a chapel.
Pat Neff Hall is the main administration building at Baylor, built in 1939.
Fall brings wonderful color to campus - here adorning Pat Neff Hall with Baylor gold.
Occasionally, Waco receives a dusting of snow that gives Pat Neff Hall and Founders Mall a wintry beauty. The green lit dome reflects another home athletic victory.
The Paul L. Foster Success Center brings together an assortment of academic and career support offices to assist students.
The Paul W. Powell Chapel features stained glass windows illustrating characteristics that enhance the gifts of a person answering God's call to ministry.
Santa's Workshop is an event to provide an uplifting Christmas experience for children from the Waco community.
The Simpson Athletics and Academic Center is the centerpiece of the Highers Athletics Complex at Baylor University.
The spires of Burleson and Old Main and the dome of Pat Neff frame a beautiful Central Texas sunset.
Steppin' Out is a campus-wide day of service to the Waco community.
Steppin' Out strives to enhance student involvement in community service and attain community awareness, interaction and collaboration between Baylor University and the Waco community.
Students gather in the Burleson Quadrangle near the heart of Baylor's campus.
Baylor's Theatre Arts Department is an elite program combining an excellent liberal arts education with rigorous training in both academic and artistic fields of theatre study.
At Welcome Week, new students rock at "The Big Event" held at the Ferrell Center.
Tidwell Bible Building is a place for research, instruction and worship, a living memorial to longtime Baylor religion professor Josiah Blake Tidwell.
Truett Seminary students meet to grow in self-discovery, the practice of spiritual disciplines, worship and discussion, all in preparation for life in Christian ministry.
Waco Creek provides a peaceful walkway stretching from the Family and Consumer Sciences Building to the Bear Habitat.
Waco Hall was built in the late 1920s with the help of the Waco community, assuring Baylor University would remain in Waco.


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The LSI SandForce Acquisition: Anand's Thoughtsby Anand Lal Shimpi on 11/2/2011 12:11 PM EST
22 Comments
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Filiprino - Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - linkThis will make for good SSD controllers. LSI RAID cards look great, the manufacturer has great experience on high performance storage validation and endurance, this will benefit greatly Sandforce based products. Reply
Beenthere - Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - linkThere is much work that needs to be done to make consumer grade SSDs reliable and compatible. Until that happens many of us will not touch them as we simply don't need the headaches. Reply
TGressus - Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - linkIntel and Marvell (Crucial, Corsair branded) based SSDs have run in the homes of our family with 100% uptime over the past few years.
I understand your perspective firsthand, from retail sales experience. At this point, I think it's like the fear of Vista so many people had, and I can sympathize. You need good consulting to guide you toward market ready products. Reply
Uritziel - Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - linkIt IS a lot like Vista. Still today, I here people talk as if Vista were a broken OS that should be avoided like the plague, simply because of it's rough start. SSDs are just like that: their rough start has led people to avoid them well past the point where they should. Reply
Beenthere - Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - linkPlease don't be condescending. I've been building PCs long before Windows existed. Intel, Crucial, OCZ, Corsair, Samsung and other SSD suppliers have ALL had issues with their SSDs and no one can honestly say the multitude of SSD issues have been resolved. Anyone willing to put it in writing with a guarantee to reimburse me my $300/hour consulting rate for beta testing, feel free to post up... Reply
krazyderek - Saturday, November 05, 2011 - linkwow $300/hr ? so who paid for that comment?? Seagate, or WD?
Here's my measly $80/hr advise as someone who's been using SSD's in production systems for almost two years.
Intel and Samsung have the best track records, Toshiba a close third, none of them are perfect, but neither are hard drives. I just sent in a Seagate 1TB for RMA that had 800+ reallocated sectors... it was working fine for a year then kappoof it just dropped out of the raid array.
Similar but different problems with sandforce SSD's, they'll work fine for months, then just brick and need to be RMA'd. Besides reliability, Sanforce also heavily relies on TRIM to hit their performance numbers, look at systems without trim (XP, Mac, raid) or even avg speed after months of regular usage, not so great, or consistent.
Intel and samsung offer a more predictable, and drop in SSD solution then sandforce, hopefully that's something LSI can improve. Reply
Powerlurker - Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - linkThere's a reason that the big hard drive manufacturers haven't made much of a splash in the SSD market. Their core competancy is in fabricating spinning platters, assembling hard drives using same, and programming the firmware. Those facilities take lots of capital and proprietary knowledge. In the SSD market they're competing against any idiot with a pick-and-place line. They don't manufacture their own flash, they don't design their own controllers, and even if they could, they're competing against companies that have already spent years making their bones in the world of solid-state memory products and know how to do it better than them. Reply
Qapa - Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - linkThat's great for market penetration of SSDs, altough some laptop brands already include SSDs...
Nevertheless, I still prefer to trust non-Sandforce... for a while longer.
And in that note, Anand, when will we have a review of the OCZ Octane? And wasn't it supposed to be on the market already? Reply
semo - Friday, November 04, 2011 - linkLSI will do absolutely nothing for the consumer SSD market. The way patent wars are waged nowadays, I doubt that the technology LSI creates will filter down any time soon.
Regarding OCZ Octane, rest assured that it will get glowing reviews while consumers are left to deal with all the problems. I don't know how OCZ gets away with it every time. Reply
MrMilli - Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - linkI've now setup five machines with SSD's running in Intel Smart Responce Technology mode. Two running a Corsair Force 3 and three with an OCZ Agility 3.
The Force 3's use firmware 1.3 and are stable on a SATA 6G port.
Two of the Agility 3's use firmware 2.15 and are only stable on a SATA 3G port.
One of the Agility 3's uses firmware .13 and is stable on a SATA 6G port.
What a mess if you ask me. Goes to show that the firmware still isn't good. Reply
skroh - Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - linkHold on, here! I have been reading SSD reviews at AT for years now. "...our own interests beginning to shift away to other vendors" ? Time and time again, reviews posit SandForce drives as the desirable performance leader, both in its first generation, where it dethroned Intel, and now in its second, where it ups its game and fends off other vendors' attempts to make a comeback. Where are the articles that express this supposed loss of interest in SandForce drives, and what other vendors have allegedly taken SandForce's place in your affections?
As far as reliability, in the articles I have seen, concerns and incidents have been mentioned from time to time but their significance has always been minimized. If SandForce is horribly unstable and fatally unreliable, you have utterly failed to communicate that to your audience, but that is what the offhanded comments in THIS article seem to imply.
I don't have a dog in this fight--I bought an Intel G2 on sale back when SandForce 1.0 was just too rich for my blood. But the tone of this article seems completely inconsistent with previous drive comparisons. Which is it? Is SandForce the enthusiast's choice, or a fast Italian sportscar that breaks down twice a month? Seems like there's a real discontinuity between the narrative of the formal reviews over time and the cussing and sweating over the test bench in the back room, if that makes any sense! :) Reply
Beenthere - Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - linkThe hardware review sites love to hype new tech, especially when it offers a faster operating environment, but they are not quick to "bite the hand that feeds them" even when there are known defects in the products.
Ad revenues pay for most commercial websites and that's why the writers "walk softly" around product defects. It's also why they get hand picked hardware to review, get special mobo BIOS or firmware sent to them overnight - that consumers are unable to get, etc. Try getting tech support on a defective product and see if the company calls you within hours of getting your e-mail or writes a new BIOS for you or does simulation work to try and replicate a defect you found as a unpaid beta tester. Reply
EddyKilowatt - Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - linkNoobish question, but I don't get why bandwidth-hungry SSDs are being disguised as mechanical drives, placed in mechanical drive bays, and bottlenecked by mechanical-legacy cables and serial transfer rates?
They're just boards full of chips (the "pick-and-place" allusion above). Why doesn't everyone get rid of the packaging, plug them into a 16-lane PCIe slot, and give them all the bandwidth they need?
Okay, I realize that not everyone in the consumer space has a spare PCIe x16 slot lying around, at least not yet, and also that SSDs don't need 64 Mb/sec speeds... at least not yet.
But still, why aren't we moving in that direction? Is there a big cost add for PCIe that isn't obvious from looking at the boards? Reply
neotiger - Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - linkPCIe isn't enterprise only. See RevoDrive, a consumer PCIe SSD.
But most PCIe SSD are for enterprise. Why? Because with a consumer SSD, WAY before you hit bandwidth bottleneck, you're hitting IOPS bottleneck. You don't need to worry about bandwidth unless your drive is doing something like 200K IOPS or more. None of the consumer SSD get anywhere close to that.
So unless you're using a $10,000 SSD like FusionIO that gives you 200k IOPS, PCIe is pointless. Reply
jjj - Wednesday, November 02, 2011 - link"To date, there is no turnkey solution that a company like Seagate or Western Digital could implement that would give them hard drive-like compatibility and dependability, with all of the benefits of an SSD.
LSI has the ability to fix this"
I would remind you that:
- Marvell is the leader in HDD controller and also has a pretty good SSD controller that they tend to sell to others (every so often).
- Seagate has a certain agreement with Samsung
- Hitachi colaborates with Intel
So LSI is not saving the day here,they are just trying to compete. Reply
chiddy - Thursday, November 03, 2011 - linkAbsolutely!
In addition:
- Western Digital has been shipping SSDs under their SiliconEdge brand for quite some time now. Reply
ShieTar - Friday, November 04, 2011 - linkAnd let's not forget that Samsung itself is very much "a company like Seagate or Western Digital" when it comes to hard drives.
I would assume the main reason why Seagate and WD show no interest in the SSD market would rather be the fact that the profit margins that can be had by assembling bought NAND with a bought controller do not meet the expectations of such huge companies.
Let's face it, todays SSD market is split into Intel and Samsung on the one hand, that basically can afford to give you a free controller with your order of NAND, or smaller companies that make do with the small profit margins to be had.
Personally, I am kind of hoping that LSI's reason for the SandForce acquisition are aiming at the development of a Hybrid-Controller. Let's keep in mind that OCZs first two RevoDrive generations did consist of a combination of LSI Raid and Sandforce controllers, coupled via SATA. I imagine that a decent amount of silicium as well as latencies may be saved if the full functionality of both controllers is included in a single chip, without the need to communicate through a serial link. Reply
Powerlurker - Friday, November 04, 2011 - linkLet's not forget that they'd also be competing against companies like Kingston that have been making memory products for years already and have tons of experience in that realm. Reply
dealcorn - Friday, November 04, 2011 - linkYour analysis of the strategic business case for the acquisition sounds spot on. Also, recall LSI's great success with its SAS/SATA controllers. The writing is on the wall that Intel will substantively trash that business by migrating SAS/SATA functionality to it's Xeon chip-sets at discount prices (soon coming to Atom Xeon?). This acquisition may enable a LSI response that goes beyond "roll over and play dead". Perhaps, there is a sweet spot with precisely the right combination of SAS IP, Flash, and silicon pixie dust to create the "Wow" from some segment of the storage business. Reply
glad2meetu - Saturday, November 05, 2011 - linkLSI failed in its internal development of a SSD controller. Instead it decided to buy a solution with this acquisition of SandForce. LSI has had to buy or merge with companies in order to get customers. For example, Seagate came from its merger with Agere.
The main profit margins for SSD are for enterprise. And PCIe is not a great solution for enterprise since it is not very scalable. The consumer market will have higher volumes but at much lower margins.
Many companies are working on SSD controllers. The main differentiating factor is the firmware rather than the controller. A good SSD design will have a simple controller and good firmware. As most consumers are aware, SSD designs have reliability issues due to firmware.
Overall, I am skeptical about this aquistion. Even with my skepticism, there is a decent chance that this aquisition may prove to be beneficial since LSI doesn't have much internal R&D nor many customers. Reply
fdfsxcvdcfdh - Monday, November 07, 2011 - link2011 NEW and BIG ON SALE NOW: Reply
mbryans - Tuesday, November 22, 2011 - linkMaking driver for SandForce must be done by an expert programmers who is really involved from the beginning and verified by a strong community. If you do not want to end up with BSOD. Check ATI vs. NVIDIA experience. Reply


text:
Building a Linux PVR Part I - MythTV Setup and Installby Kristopher Kubicki on 9/3/2004 12:05 AM EST
- Posted in
- Linux
38 Comments
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- Saturday, October 24, 2009 - linksell:nike shoes$32,ed hardy(items),jean$30,handbag$35,polo shirt$13,shox$34 Reply
Edster - Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - linkIf you get stuck setting up mythtv then try this web site :
[l=PVR Guide - How-to guides for setting up mythtv]http://pvrguide.no-ip.com[/l]
http://pvrguide.no-ip.com Reply
sthes - Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - linkWhatever happened to part two? Anxiously awaiting the review! Reply
willy134 - Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - linkYou need to mention the mythweb extension. I log into my computer from work and set up recordings. There are also plugins that allow you to view your recorded shows on a windows machine.
The web server also has a very nice search feature and lists all the movies playing in your schedule. It's a great way to also find when a show you want to watch is playing again. Much better than looking up the listings on most web sites. Reply
serff - Tuesday, September 07, 2004 - linkCan you guys comment on HDTV support in your follow up feature? I'm very intrested in building a HD DVR for less than $1000 (which is how much all of them are right now.) I'm also intrested in dual tuner solutions as well. Does MythTV support dual tuners? Also, in MythTV, when you go to the guide, can you still see the show you are watching? Like in the corner or something? It would also be cool to know about support for burning shows to DVD as well. Thanks!
serff Reply
sasa - Monday, September 06, 2004 - linkThe system in the article is a total overkill if PVR-x50 is used.
A 677MHz PIII can easily do the job.
Such system can be bought on ebay for $100, then just add 200GB hd for $100, GF4 for $40, PVR-x50 for $100. Total $340.
This system will do both front end and backend.
It is also possible to use very low spec PC for backend (like PII) and xbox as a frontend.
A Socket 370 PIII is consuming much less power than P4, K7 or K8 which is very important if you want to run Myth 24/7. You don't want to save $10 on tivo monthly bills while paying $20 for electricity bills.
Very nice distro for Myth is Debian unstable.
You just add a line into your apt config, run apt-get and it installs all dependencies.
sasa - Monday, September 06, 2004 - linkReply
JohanV - Monday, September 06, 2004 - linkOn the one side of the comparison: A windows MCE PC (hardware satisfying certain conditions + specialized preinstalled software)
On the other side: A PC with approximately the same hardware with a general purpose SUSE Linux install, hand-compiled/hand-compiled drivers, databases and what not.
Not really a straight forward comparison, it's even worse than like comparing a server cpu with a desktop cpu.
Seems only fair to use handpicked hardware on both machines, and to use specialized OS's in both cases. In other words, use KnoppMyth with hardware that is known to work with KnoppMyth without any headaches. Reply
griffy - Monday, September 06, 2004 - linkAnybody have any personal experience on the Telly MC1200, and how it might compare? I would be interested in a few words in Part II about how this option stacks up, in real terms. (Yes, I've read all the reviews.)
Thanks for booting up an interesting area on AnandTech.
lbt - Monday, September 06, 2004 - linkSeveral people have mentioned KnoppMyth - no-one has said why...
You insert the CD and it installs linux and *everything* you need to run Myth. (It aims to make running Myth 'appliance' like.)
For those who care it's a Knoppix (aka Debian) based distro.
Total install time is measured in minutes and you don't need to know linux (well, it's still at the 'not much' stage at the minute ;) )
Checkout www.mysettopbox.tv for forums and help. Reply
sprockkets - Monday, September 06, 2004 - linkDon't forget with TiVo can only do what it does and nothing else, unlike your computer which can do much more.
Here are some of my thoughts on that program:
Using a LeadTek Win Fast 200XP Deluxe
Needing to setup an MySQL server just to get it to work right is downright gay. And it seems that the tv listings program was only properly installed ironically due to using apt-get by trying Freevo's installation which automatically downloaded all the necessary dependancies from people who automatically package the program for certain distros. Perhaps this has changed but when I tried doing it I got the "well I'm missing one of a few hundred sub program dependacies."
Next, using the composite or s-video in was frustrating, the only way I got it to work was to assign on the one of the config pages that s-video was for the same as TV or something. Then, since it only works by always time shifting, using the program to play games is useless due to the lag it introduces.
Then you can watch the massive files it makes when making video recordings, which them means you must transcode later. I checked off the options to do so but found it never compressed them anyhow. I'm sure it was user error for this and other stuff.
Running LeadTek's own program for recording is so painfully easy compared to using mythtv or freevo, and does it directly to Divx5/mp3 format as well, on the fly and never skips (only works at low res though but an hour gives you a 700MB file) but of course requires windows. Using motv/xawtv is just as good for tunning, but it's recording sucks (not to mention I had to toy with the tuner setting in my /etc/config stuff to get it to tune right).
Then if you can use mplayer to tune to the right frequency, read 15k lines of documentation to word the right command with xvid, then doing the same thing with Leadtek's program is great, since the main bottleneck with Leadtek's program is that since it has to encode and decode at the same time to let you see what you are recording, it prevents you from doing a higher res recording. If it allowed you to not see it while recording then it would be perfect.
Bottom line:
Mythtv:Has the Linux theme of being very configurable, works, looks great, free, and can use multiple computers and network them for remote watching. But getting all the deps to install, and running all the backend and crap makes it clumsy and frustrating at times.
Freevo: Works with python and works if you can. Using apt get makes an easy install. Uses mplayer to record so setting it to encode on the fly is great and for small files sizes that don't need transcoding later.
Xawtv: Using in SuSE 9.1 is easy and built in for BTTV cards, but recording sucks.
Windows/Leaktek software: Like anything else Windows, easy. Only flaw is the low res divx encoding (and Microsoft's constant bs tricks into making the mp3 codec on the system work only at 22khz and low bitrates to make it look crappy).
Mythtv prepackaged with Knoppix: Have downloaded it but haven't tried it.
Oh, and for the #1, I know all about TV out issues with Linux and getting it to work. But unlike previous versions of Linux, I found that SuSE 9.1 can easily switch from S-Video to normal video out on my SS40G system, using the built in SiS300 graphics and it's built in video out chip. I set the resolution easily with the Control Center in KDE. Reply
NogginBoink - Sunday, September 05, 2004 - linkSnuffy,
While you're correct on the upfront costs, MythTV has a longterm advantage. You can upgrade your hard drive at will. And, as I suspect we'll read in the second installment, MythTV supports unlimited tuners, AND HDTV tuners.
The HD part is what's motivating me to put together my first-ever Linux box. Reply
KristopherKubicki - Sunday, September 05, 2004 - linktrikster2: We actually do the final testing (Part II) with MCE versus knoppmyth. I just wanted to show the though process in the meantime
Kristopher Reply
KristopherKubicki - Sunday, September 05, 2004 - linkNogginBoink: Yes.
Kristopher Reply
Danj2K - Sunday, September 05, 2004 - linkSomething this article doesn't mention is that users outside the US and Canada can't use the Zap2it option and instead are required to use XMLTV. This is worth mentioning since XMLTV does not appear to automatically tune in channels, it just downloads schedule data for them - which makes sense, because in the UK (for example) the frequency of the various channels is dependent on where in the country you are and which transmitter you are receiving them from. When I tried to build a MythTV box that was as far as I got, since I was unable to find out how to tune it in. Reply
Quink - Sunday, September 05, 2004 - linkYou don't use mythtv to save money. You use it because you like to tinker, like a challenge or anything along those lines.
Secondly making use of valuable tools like irc.freenode.org #mythtv-users cuts down a lot on time.
Also, why would you not use a SFF or mATX system? Who in their right mind would spend $600+ and not make size a focus too.
Plus, from experience, its easier to go with a via mobo, NOT kt400 of any type, preferablly a kt333. ATI 9200 or thereabouts works a lot easier to IMHO. Do that, have some general linux knowledge, and get things done very quickly. Reply
trikster2 - Sunday, September 05, 2004 - link
It's been said 10 times above, but I can't help it, I have to say it again: Shame, shame on you for not using knoppmyth!!!!!
Also your linux box should be $100 cheaper:
The case you picked is available from silverstontek under the name GD98.
It's available at www.gameve.com and sundialmicro for $29
To make all things equal you should have used the Hauppauge WinTV PVR-250MCE in both computers. It is available at www.pcalchemy.com fo r $99.
It's very common for people to throw together HTPC's out of spare parts. It would be cool to compare both machines with low end CPU's, like a 1 gig duron.......
mcdrama - Sunday, September 05, 2004 - linkI have been using KnoppMyth ( www.mysettopbox.tv ) for almost a year now and would never buy a TiVo now. ;)
My box is an AthlonXP 1.6GHz, 768MB PC2700 DDR, 120GB IDE hard drive, Hauppauge PVR-250, Netgear USB 802.11b adapter, all inside a Shuttle XPC box that sits next to my TV. ;) I built my system for $450, after BIOS update, no problems with watching a recording at the same time as recording a TV show.
If you build one of these boxes, just make sure to NOT get a VIA based chipset. The VIA south bridge chipsets have a PCI?/IDE? bug which causes recordings to stop recording when you try to watch a different recording.
Upgrading the BIOS, and upgrading the RAM from 256MB to 768MB seems to have fixed this problem with my Shuttle XPC SK41G.
excaliberpc.com has XPC barebones from $148 up to $300+, check www.pricewatch.com for other parts prices. Reply
Snuffaluffaguss - Sunday, September 05, 2004 - link"Considering the cost of a TiVo, service runs anywhere from $100 to $600 per year depending on what DVR and subscription you buy."
That is pretty false info. An 40 hour tivo is 199 -a 100 dollar rebate, so $99 and the lifetime subscription is $299. So its its only 500 pre rebate, 400 after rebate for LIFE, not year. An 80 hour would be $100 bucks more. Its really not that much cheaper. Reply
NogginBoink - Sunday, September 05, 2004 - linkI'm confused.
The sempron is a 32-bit chip, right?
DFI's website says that the K8M800-MLVF motherboard is an AMD-64 motherboard.
Can you put a 32 bit Sempron in a socket for a 64-bit chip? Reply
NullSpin - Saturday, September 04, 2004 - linkI can't tell you how long I have been waiting for this article. I have been waiting to buy components for almost a year but did not want to wade into this project with no idea of what hardware was reccomended. I'm also really interested in seeing the process of adding an nfs server into the mix for additional storage.
Maybe you could price out a 'quiet' system and the various form factors for htpc's.
Can't wait for part deux.
NS Reply
sisyphus - Friday, September 03, 2004 - linkI have just one thing to say about MythTV:
Save yourself some time and grief!
Use KnoppMyth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Reply
Nnyan - Friday, September 03, 2004 - linkJust had another thought, how does MythTV compare to other applications like Freevo? Reply
griffy - Friday, September 03, 2004 - linkGreat job, thanks.
In your next article, could you let us know a little more why you chose the hardware you did, and maybe what you think the minimum might be?
Thanks Reply
archcommus87 - Friday, September 03, 2004 - linkWow, goes to show me that there are still topics out there I know NOTHING about. Most of this article was over my head. Is that because I'm not familiar with Linux or something else?
Just the whole part about getting the card setup, the commands to run, the Myth database, etc. WHOOSH. Reply
Resh - Friday, September 03, 2004 - linkThanks for replying Kris, but your reply makes me cry. My Hitachi doesn't have a DVI or VGA-in so unless I can get the TV-out on the vid card to work under Linux, I'm dead in the water.
If anyone has seen any good directions on making Suse, Fedora, or Mandrake work with the TV-out on currently available nVidia card or Radeon 8500, please let me know! llama at rogers dot com
Kris, if you can cover this in the next, or a third, I'd have your children (although my wife might object). ;-)
Thanks! Reply
Nnyan - Friday, September 03, 2004 - linkCool article. My only complaint is that I would have liked to have read which distros DID work well with MythTV and perphaps the PVR-250. Perphaps in part 2?
Thanks to skeptic for the mention of KnoppMyth distro. Reply
JoeNiner - Friday, September 03, 2004 - linkPlease please please include a KnoppMyth install in a follow up! Reply
KristopherKubicki - Friday, September 03, 2004 - linkResh: We only used a PVR-250, so there is no passthrough. We just hooked the DVI out on our GeForce card up to the TV :)
Kristopher Reply
meksta - Friday, September 03, 2004 - linkmythTV is perhaps the most versatile piece of software I have come across. You can build a system for cheaper if you want. I am running myth on a XP2500+ cpu and Chaintech 7nif2 mobo (built-in s-video out). I also run two el-cheapo tv tuner cards for some simultaneous recordings.
With a PVR250, that does hardware encoding, you really don't need a kick ass cpu at all.
I agree it takes a while to set up. But once I had it up and running...it's been happily stable since. Reply
shiftomnimega - Friday, September 03, 2004 - linkLooking forward to part 2. Reply
Brazen - Friday, September 03, 2004 - linkNo win32 distribution for MythTV :( Reply
skeptic - Friday, September 03, 2004 - linkTry the Knoppmyth distribution. IMHO it is the best and easiest to use. Total install time for me was around 20 minutes and I had previously unsuccessfully fumbled around with mythtv on red hat.
My setup uses the Huappauge PVR 350 card which has a whole set of issues when attempting to get the tv-out on the card to work, but man the quality was actually better than on my TIVO. One month after I had it working I called up TIVO and cancelled - it felt so good. I have been running knoppmyth for over 6 months now and its fantastic. Reply
reboos - Friday, September 03, 2004 - linkThank you for the article. Reply
Aquila76 - Friday, September 03, 2004 - linkFrom Page 2: "Originally, we had scheduled to run all of our testes with the Hauppage WinTV Go card"
Let me know how your testes run after that! ;>)
Seriously though, great article. Interesting that there's only a $60 savings (up front) for the Linux PVR over the WinMCE box. Tells you the cost of WinMCE is actually pretty cheap! If only they'd make it available for purchase, but they probably won't because of DMCA or something. Reply
Kishkumen - Friday, September 03, 2004 - linkNice article. I've been a fan of MythTV for quite some time and have enjoyed experimenting with it. The biggest detriment to my full time usage has been a lack of viable Linux HDTV drivers for my particular card based upon the Teralogic TL880 chipset. However, I look forward to becoming more involved with it as more HDTV capture cards with good Linux support become available. Reply
Adul - Friday, September 03, 2004 - linkKris, nice article. I am glad you wrote it. Now I want to build my own :D Reply
Resh - Friday, September 03, 2004 - linkIt's late. I was about to go to bed when I saw this article. I leapt with glee! After a quick skim, I can't say that I saw any discussion of how SuSE dealt with the TV-Out. Did it work? Were you using TV-out during this whole process. Some explanation in this area would be great, either as an update, or as the opening to Part II.
Looking foward to reading it, and the follow-up, in detail.
I love AT! :) Reply