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AMD's Lightning Bolt: Low Cost Thunderbolt Alternative for USB 3.0/DPby Anand Lal Shimpi on 1/12/2012 9:11 PM EST
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- CPUs
- Thunderbolt
- Lightning Bolt
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shadowofthesun - Thursday, January 12, 2012 - linkTech is cool and all, but did they really have to name it Lightning Bolt? That's one way to make an alternative technology sound like a cheap off-brand knock off. Reply
chizow - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkPretty much, I had the same reaction a few weeks ago when AMD decided to use "K" of all available letters to differentiate their unlocked APUs....
These classic clips from Coming to America come to mind immediately when I see AMD (or any company) do this kind of thing:
Explaining Lightning Bolt name: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGRiTpCji0I
AMD marketing department hard at work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrwZORNA-k0&fea... Reply
sigmatau - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkWhat the hell is a thunder bolt? Thunder is the noise caused by lightning when it strikes the ground. Intel should have called their stuff Lightning Bolt. Maybe they should have kept it Light Peak. Reply
Camikazi - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkhttp://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/thunderb...
Webster dictionary seems to say that Thunderbolt is a word.
As does Oxford.
BTW thunder is not caused when lightning hits the ground, it is the caused by the sudden expansion of air in the path of the lightning, so the sound starts before it hits the ground. Reply
tim851 - Saturday, January 14, 2012 - linkThunderbolt and lightning,
Very very frightening me.
Galileo... Reply
[deXter] - Sunday, February 05, 2012 - linkGALILEO! Galileo, GALILEO! Galileo, Figaro, Magnificoooo....
(Glad I'm not the only one who thought of this song when reading this article ;) ) Reply
Th-z - Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - linkThe word exists because it was before the phenomenon was truly understood. Other languages also have similar tradition, because our ancestors used to think the sound precedes the lightning (or lightning is originated by the sound), thus the word "thunderbolt". I think the word should be deprecated today, most people would say lightning bolt because it's scientifically correct. Reply
tekkitan - Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - linkActually lightning doesn't "hit" the ground. Lightning streaks inside a cloud, between clouds, and from clouds to the ground. Lightning is a flow of electrons (a negative charge) that zigzags downward in a forked shaped pattern (scientists call this a step leader). As it nears the earth, a stream of positive charges moves up to the charge of electrons (negative charge). When they meet, the power flows. We can't see this because it moves too fast (first stroke). The return flow (positive charge) moves upward more slowly. This is what we see and call lightning (return stroke). If there is a flicker, the upward stroke is repeating the process. Reply
kingius - Friday, January 20, 2012 - linkA thunderbolt is a clever poetic construction, like being hit by a 'wall of noise'... or being struck by a 'hail of arrows'. These comparisons conjure up evocative images in our minds and are good for the spirit. Reply
xrror - Friday, January 27, 2012 - linkWell Intel kinda took the "light" out of Light Peak to make Thunderbolt. I wonder what Intel will call the "real" Light Peak when it's released with the optical transceivers...
I'd laugh if one of the reasons AMD named their standard Lightning Bolt was to troll the name first ;p
Either way, I always get the feeling that Intel themselves don't really plan to continue Thunderbolt in the long term, they really want the optical interconnects. They managed to get Apple excited on it enough to take the hook, then again Apple isn't bashful about abandoning prior standards they had just embraced a generation ago. Reply
sigmatau - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkBTW, I do agree it sounds missleading at the least. Imagine if Microsoft came out with the mePhone after Apple introduced the iPhone. Reply
tim851 - Saturday, January 14, 2012 - linkAgreed.
"Ultrathins" is another example of AMD trying to knock off Intel. Reply
mino - Tuesday, January 17, 2012 - linkHUH?
The "Ultrathin" category is with us for at least a decade (Thinkpad S30 anyone ?) with low volume special stuff 15+ years ago.
That Intel was not satisfied with a "generic" name for its latest PR campaign so come up with "UltraBook" moniker for Sandy-power ultrathins is their problem.
To anyone with a bit of common sense the intel naming is just a plain joke.
Though, one must admit MS's "MID"s are really hard to beat in this department ... :D Reply
MobiusStrip - Friday, January 20, 2012 - linkNot cool at all. They took three existing things and crammed them into one connector, degrading their performance as a result. This sucks.
USB 3 is NOT a substitute for Thunderbolt. Any reader of this site should know the multiple reasons by now. Reply
repoman27 - Thursday, January 12, 2012 - linkSeems suspiciously like they've just piped USB 3.0 over a souped-up DisplayPort Aux channel... Don't get me wrong, I'm all for competition in this arena, but this just seems to be an attempt to confuse gullible consumers with a very similar looking and sounding technology.
Is that a Mini-DisplayPort cable you got there? No. Thunderbolt cable? No. It's gotta be Lightning Bolt then! Reply
TrackSmart - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkGood concept, but these competing connectivity standards are awful for consumers.
Example: Powered eSATA ports sounded like a great idea 2 yrs ago. Fast transfer speeds, a single cable for data and power, and the same port could also be used as a normal USB port so it didn't waste space on a laptop. Awesome! BUT there are almost-zero external drives that support the standard. And only 1 in 20 laptop or desktop computers have this port.
Pick ONE standard and make sure it is dirt-cheap to implement everywhere. Reply
mino - Tuesday, January 17, 2012 - linkPowered eSATA was NEVER planned but actually created on an ad-hoc basis.
If anything, it gives one eSATA/or/USB2 in same footprint which is good.
BTW eSATA is the ONLY native storage interface so as far as external storage goes it is the best by definition.
Though, 99% people really do NOT need its features (which come at a price of unvieldy cables).
But for those of us who do, eSATA/USB is jus more versatile version of eSATA ... a shame that USB3 garbage is taking over this niche. :( Reply
ricardodawkins - Thursday, January 12, 2012 - linkAMD trying to out-niche another niche. Reply
taltamir - Thursday, January 12, 2012 - linkthat's remarkably astute... How many people even need such a thing? Reply
Ratman6161 - Tuesday, January 17, 2012 - linkIs to add Ethernet to the mix. If it also had the network connection you could use it in place of a traditional docking port. Just put the laptop on the desk and plug in a single cable and you are in business. But without the network connection...doesn't work for me. Reply
mino - Tuesday, January 17, 2012 - linkThere is USB3 in there which is more than enough (even at reduced speed) for ethernet or whatever IO you might need ... Reply
teng029 - Thursday, January 12, 2012 - linkAnd here I thought Thunderbolt was a silly name... Reply
SilthDraeth - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkThey are both silly names, but Thunder doesn't come in bolts, and lightning does.
Just saying... Reply
BSMonitor - Monday, January 16, 2012 - linkEnough with the "Just Saying"
Just Saying, just saying Reply
XZerg - Thursday, January 12, 2012 - linkJust pure stupidity if they proceed with this product. The reason why TB is/will be better than LB is pure and simple TB is PCIe based and so can actually help externalize hardware such as GPU which is something notebooks can't do. At least not well - usb 2.0/3.0 based solutions wouldn't live up to even an integrated gpu's performance. Reply
redisnidma - Thursday, January 12, 2012 - linkYeah, but remember that it's intel who's in dire need of external GPUs because of their IGPs being crap. That's why they came out with this gimmick. Reply
Obsoleet - Thursday, January 12, 2012 - linkThis is one of the craftiest, wisest gimmicks of all time. Provide what appears to be what Intel is pushing, for MUCH cheaper, riding on the back of USB3.0.
I'm entirely happy with my USB 3.0 external storage and 5870.
If Tbolt can even be limited or stopped, everyone besides Intel wins. Brilliant honestly. Reply
repoman27 - Thursday, January 12, 2012 - linkHow does everyone besides Intel win if we limit or stop the inclusion of 20Gbps I/O interfaces on laptops and all-in-ones?
Have you considered that there are uses for a 20Gbps interface besides external storage or GPUs? Just cuz you don't have need of it, doesn't mean it's not useful. Reply
Fergy - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkIf Intel wanted to make the world better with thunderbold they should have followed USB's example. Instead they follow firewire's example. USB won because it is cheap and anybody can implement it. Thunderbolt will only be available on more expensive devices. And if Intel integrates TB into their chipset it will be an Intel only technology. Reply
repoman27 - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkLast I checked, Intel was on the panel that created USB, they currently integrate USB into their devices, and USB is not an Intel only technology. USB was not initially cheap compared to existing standards, nor was it immediately adopted en masse. Thunderbolt is currently available on the $599 Mac Mini, the cheapest PC that Apple offers.
The only statement you made that makes sense to me is that Thunderbolt bears some resemblance to FireWire. Reply
SleepyFE - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkYou said it. Apple's cheapest PC is 600$, while you can get any other brand for half as much (or just buy parts). Won't be as powerfull, but it's not for gaming anyway.
Also, Fergy made perfect sense. TB is not an Apple exclusive because they lerned their lesson with FireWire. Now they let Intel try their luck with an expensive port with slow adoption rate because of it. Intel want's to get paid, so they charge for using TB, and that means the price is higher then it could be. The reason Apple is paying anyway is because the have to be the cooltest and they overprice treir products anyhow so it doesn't show on the pricetag. Reply
KPOM - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkIn case you haven't figured out, the whole Ultrabook concept is an attempt to drag the PC market out of the cheaply made commodity rut they've been in for the past decade. Intel wants 40% of notebooks to be Ultrabooks, and they will average around $800-1000 once the first generation has filtered through. The higher price point ought to allow use of higher end technology like Thunderbolt.
TB could be a great interface for docking stations, and could provide a standard for the entire industry. Apple's Thunderbolt Display provides a template for the rest of the industry to consider. Reply
FaaR - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkNeither you, nor that other guy make any sense at all. TB is royalty-free, any comparisons to firewire is therefore immediately dead in the water.
You guys simply couldn't be more wrong. TB's gonna go places and you'll come around liking it eventually once you get over your blind apple hate. Reply
LtGoonRush - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkThat's the thing, there are so few applications for Thunderbolt (over USB3.0) that the only real purpose it serves is to make Intel money. If you really think you need Thunderbolt, nothing stops you from buying a premium model with it included. Much like FireWire, it will never see adoption on consumer devices because of high costs and lack of benefits over USB. Reply
Obsoleet - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkWell, if you don't need it, then it isn't entirely useful.
For me fragmenting connectivity standards is worse than any possible gain. This wasn't some brilliant idea by Intel that will also happen to make them money, it was an idea to monopolize another sector USB has been evolving, and we have other connectivity methods for remaining requirements. Fiber optics is nothing new. Reply
repoman27 - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkI'm not sure how USB has been evolving the high-bandwidth digital display interface combined with external PCIe connectivity sector. I'm also not sure how you reckoned that Intel planned on squashing the poor USB-IF (which Intel formed in the first place) with an interface that only supports a total of 6 connected devices.
It's interesting that you find more than one connectivity standard to be the worst possible thing, yet you're afraid of Intel monopolizing the market with a new standard... The bottom line here is that lack of choice is bad. You can't want USB to have a monopoly on the one hand and then not want a different monopoly because Intel's involved on the other.
But I guess we should still probably get rid of all of the other interfaces like SATA, HDMI, Ethernet, and ExpressCard, and just focus on USB. There's no reason to have more than one connectivity standard after all. Reply
FaaR - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkI demand you stop making sense! Reply
Obsoleet - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkYou seem to be either very confused, or simply kneejerk in being argumentative and defensive to your precious Thunderbolt/Intel (not sure which). Did you already foolishly spend money on that crap?
I was the one who said we have interfaces for all those things, SATA, HDMI, ethernet, USB.
'we have other connectivity methods for remaining requirements.'
I also, never claimed USB was evolving into external PCIe, I simply said it's cheap, does what it's supposed to do and more, and there plenty of other options for connectivity if you need something else.
This new standard is doomed to fail in the face of USB3 and everything else that's already well-established.
Enjoy buying all those Firewire.. I mean Thunderbolt devices. Reply
Jaybus - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkI think you're missing the point. TB is simply extending the low-level PCIe bus from the motherboard and/or the CPU to the outside world. In other words, plugging a device into TB is analogous to plugging a PCIe adapter card into a PCIe slot in a PC. That PCIe device could be anything. When you consider that all of the interfaces (USB, SATA, etc.) are already connected to the CPU/GPU via PCIe bridges, even if that bridge is internal to the chipset, then you can see that TB is protocol agnostic.
Fiber optics is not new. However, silicon photonics is very new. It is not about fiber optics. It is about how the light pulses are generated and detected. Current high speed optical i/o devices, like fiber channel adapters, require very expensive laser driver and detector hardware. Silicon photonics promises integrating the laser, detector, and modulation on the silicon. In other words, it makes it cheap to use fiber optic cables at tremendous bandwidths. Reply
ChristophWeber - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkYou are so correct. TB's great innovation is to externalize the guts of a PC design by putting PCIe onto a serial cable. Everything else follows from there.
USB on the other hand is mostly interrupt driven and therefore inherently a bad match to many of the uses we want it for, external disks being one prominent example. Sure, external USB drives work, but it's still hobbled and provides variable, hiccupy throughput. TB, and Firewire before it, solves this cleanly and effectively. Reply
Obsoleet - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkMy 8GB Supertalent Pico-C and 1TB WD Passport (USB 3.0) disagree with you.
My external storage averages ~100MB read speeds and ~70MB/sec write, a self powered 5400RPM drive.
Sure it's no SATA drive, but it's more than effective and convenient on technology widely available today. In fact, I've been using it for 2 years now while everyone waits and waits for Tbolt to dominate. Reply
XZerg - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkYou misunderstand the bigger point being made here. Sure USB 3.0 is fast for most of the tasks, however, it is not fast enough to allow a decent GPU to be hooked up to the computer externally. With TB, due to its implementation, not necessarily due to the bandwidth, you can gut out almost all parts of your computer that are currently only viable as internal devices while keeping the performance experience close to normal. A simple example is being able to use an external GPU on a laptop/netbook/tablet to boost the GPU performance considerably - something that USB solutions cannot do and USB doesn't seem to be driven to tackle that front.
This isn't to say that TB is perfect but it is at least one step ahead of USB now. Companies need to throw more weight behind TB to create more products that end-users can make use of to simplify devices portability and upgradability.
I believe USB would be great as a peripherals connectivity (displays, hdd, kb/mouse, camera, printer, ...) and TB for computer hardware (videos, raid cards, accelerators, ...).
Exploiting such capabilities of TB would be a two edge sword - provide products with greater benefits (portability for re-use) to end-user, however, at the same time lose revenues from end-users as they will buy only one expensive solution for more than one computing system instead of for each system. Reply
Wardrop - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkThunderbolt and Lighting Bolt seem to be completely unrelated, despite initial impressions. Lightning bolt basically combines two existing external interfaces into one cable, for the sack of convenience (docking). It's purely a physical thing.
Thunderbolt on the other hand makes the bandwidth provided by PCI-e, available externally. It provides capabilities that are otherwise unavailable over any other existing interface (or combination of interfaces). If you need to send more than 5/6gbps to an external device, Thunderbolt is the only solution. Reply
r3loaded - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkThis is honestly the first thing that came to mind when I read the title of this article: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ekugPKqFw Reply
umbrel - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkReturn to me the dignity I lost when the people around me saw me fall to floor rolling in laughter!!! Reply
Beenthere - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkI think people associate the name Thunderbolt with comics and unscrupulous PC electronics makers, not a solid produce, a lot like Ultra-Flop notebooks. Reply
KPOM - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkWith yet another incompatible technology vying for use of the mDP, this is bound to just lead to more customer confusion. It was bad enough that Intel and Apple settled on mDP, but at least few PC manufacturers besides Apple had used the port prior to the introduction of Thunderbolt. Reply
Hector2 - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkIt does seem to just be a merging of USB 3.0 and Display Port. I agree with others about the name. Intel started with "Lightpeak" and that made some sense because it was an optical interface that also supported PCIe, etc.
Lightening Bolt doesn't seem to have anything to do with optical other than trying to get people to believe its similar to Intel's LightPeak and ThunderBolt.
In the end its just another name. Reply
CUEngineer - Friday, January 13, 2012 - linkI sense some patent lawsuits here... lol
Intels thunderbolt was originally called lightning bolt from what i remember and i think that it was already patented? I think the plan is to call it thunderbolt while they still use coper wires and lightning bolt when it reaches full fruition of using optics. Reply
mino - Tuesday, January 17, 2012 - linkI sense AMD trolling Intel's naming here.
Thre is no new tech by AMD here - they just serve the role of coordinator to prevent ODM's doing each its own ...
IMO they key would be a capability to charge the notebook via it. It they can do it , they win big.
If they cannot, they might succeed. Reply
cdillon - Tuesday, January 17, 2012 - linkPhysics fail. Signals travel down copper at somewhere between about 65% the speed of light for coaxial cables and 97% for a free conductor. Not sure were you got a 100X difference from.
The "point of fiber" is absolutely bandwidth. The maximum theoretical bandwidth limit is far, far higher for fiber optic cable than a copper wire (again, those pesky physics).
Easily isolated fiber optic cables also do not induce nor pick up interference from the surrounding environment, while every copper wire doubles as an antenna. Noise immunity is a giant hurdle in any copper communication link. Fiber links simply don't have to deal with it. Reply
mino - Tuesday, January 17, 2012 - linkWrong, problem is frequency.
You can make cheap copper cable but you need complex demuxes on the ends (which NEED time to do its work) plus you have to run at low freq.
TB would have been wonderfull had the actualy been a primarily fiber interface.
You take optics from TB and you get an inflexible useless eSATA/ePCI/eSCSI ... you name it.
A shame. Reply
mino - Tuesday, January 17, 2012 - linkThen, he is actually advocating FOR LightningBolt(whatever they anme it) as Thunderbolt is an overkill for 99% use cases.
/me would love commodity TB but, well with intel holding the patents none is gonna mass produce it (on the device side), zero royalty ODM's a**. Reply
mino - Tuesday, January 17, 2012 - linkUSB3 has as much in common with USB1/2 as PCI has with PCI express ... Reply


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Did Mallory and Irvine really reach the summit way back when? Who has the best kung fu? What is up with these Pokémon things? These are questions with easier answers than that of how to size your rock shoes. The V15-climbing gym rat will tell you that if your toes feel anything but searing pain, the shoes are too big. But what does he know — he's probably only 12 years old anyway. The veteran trad will insist that you need to leave room for three pairs of wool socks. Should you completely trust someone who might suffer from altitude-induced brain damage?
While it isn't a black or white issue, a general rule dictates that soft shoes require a tighter fit, two to three sizes smaller than your street shoe size. We recommend you fit your trad shoes one to two sizes under your street shoe size. A thick midsole creates a platform on which you stand, while a slip-lasted slipper-type shoe relies on your crammed toes to create an edging platform.
Once you determine your needs, try on several boots in that genre. Different last types fit different feet -- that's why we make lots of lasts. If it feels good, it probably is. Remember to factor in stretch. Unlined slip-lasted shoes tend to stretch a bit more than lined shoes -- about one full size. Lined shoes stretch about a half size. Remember: a well-fit comfortable shoe will work better than an ill-fitting tighter shoe.
La Sportiva's diverse last families have been specifically designed to conform to the widest possible range of both foot shape and climbing use. We constantly strive to revolutionize climbing shoe development and to provide every individual absolute freedom of choice in finding a shoe that is perfect for both their foot AND their climbing style.
And you thought buying a new car was tough... Getting the perfect fit in a pair of hiking boots is rarely as simple as relaying your size. Most good boot fitters will measure your foot on a Brannock device. Overall length is actually a minor element of boot fitting. In the ideal world, our left foot would be a mirror image of our right, while the ball of our foot would line up exactly with the last-makers idea of the perfect foot. This is almost never the case because other factors such as heel to ball length, volume, and width are critical in gaining a perfect fit. A good salesperson will address each of these issues.
To use our size chart to fit mountain boots, find your American size then go across to your European size, and then add one half size. When trying on boots make sure to bring the socks you would normally wear and any orthotics or custom footbeds you use. Another note: our shoes are handmade, and you can experience minor variations in sizing from pair to pair in a given size. What you're looking for is the size that holds your toes ever so slightly away from the front of the boot while the lacing system is snug across the top of your arch. To check the length, you should be able to slip one finger behind your heel when you are standing up with the boot unlaced and your toes touching the front. The fit across the top of your arch is the single most important factor. If the lacing system here does not hold your foot in place, the boot will not be stable on your foot while you walk. If the boot is too short, your toes will get smashed walking down hill. Too long and your heel will slide up and down and give you blisters. Be patient, ask questions and make sure you've got the right size and the right fit and the right boot before you hit the trail.


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Passenger Safety for Little Kids
Passenger Safety for Little Kids
Car Seats
Make sure you're prepared for any trip with a car seat that is used and installed properly. Keep your child safe on every ride with these tips.
- Seventy-three percent of car seats are not used or installed correctly, so before you hit the road, check your car seat. Here's a quick car seat checklist to help you out. It takes only 15 minutes. If you are having even the slightest trouble, questions or concerns, certified child passenger safety technicians are able to help or even double check your work.
- Learn how to install your car seat for free. Safe Kids hosts car seat inspection events across the country where certified technicians can help make sure your car seat is properly installed. They will teach you so that you can always be sure your car seat is used correctly. Find a Safe Kids car seat checkup event near you.
- For the best protection, keep your child in a rear-facing car seat for as long as possible – until at least 2 years old. You can find the exact height and weight limit on the side or back of your car seat. Kids who ride in rear-facing seats have the maximum protection for the head, neck and spine.
- When your children outgrow a rear-facing seat around age 2, move them to a forward-facing car seat. Keep the seat in the back and make sure to attach the top tether after you tighten and lock the seat belt or lower attachments. Read labels to know when to unhook the lower attachments and switch to the seat belt.
- Kids can remain in some forward-facing car seats until they're over 65 pounds, depending on the car seat limits. Check the seat label to find the exact measurements. Discontinue use of the LATCH system when your child reaches the weight on the car seat label. Not to worry: At that time you will switch to a seat belt to secure the car seat.
- Inch Test. Once your car seat is installed, give it a good tug at the base where the seat belt goes through it. Can you move it more than an inch side to side or front to back? A properly installed seat will not move more than an inch side to side or front to back.
- Pinch Test. Make sure the harness is tightly buckled and coming from the correct slots (check your car seat manual). With the chest clip placed at armpit level, pinch the strap at your child's shoulder. If you are unable to pinch any excess webbing, you're good to go.
- For both rear- and forward-facing child safety seats, use either the car's seat belt or the LATCH system to lock the car seat in place. Don't use both at the same time.
- Toys can injure your child in a crash so be extra careful to choose ones that are soft and will not hurt your kid. A small, loose toy can be dangerous and injure your baby in a crash. Secure loose objects and toys to protect everyone in the car.
- Look at the label on your car seat to make sure it's appropriate for your child's age, weight and height. Your car seat has an expiration date – usually around six years. Find and double check the label to make sure it's still safe.
- Buy a used car seat only if you know its full crash history. That means you must buy it from someone you know, not from a thrift store or over the Internet. Once a car seat has been in a crash or is expired or broken, it needs to be replaced.


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This Breitling Chronomat Evolution B13356 ( bracelet / steel and 18ky bezel / dial) Men's watch is in Excellent condition. It is Crown & Caliber Certified Authentic , has undergone any necessary service, and comes backed by our 1-year warranty. Prior to shipment, the watch will undergo a final quality control to ensure it is functioning as intended. If you have questions about this watch, give us a call at (800) 514-3750 and mention reference code: ERP5104.
Ready to ship within 5-7 business days after order is processed and approved.
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Crown & Caliber is the smartest way to buy and sell a luxury watch. Our servicing and authentication efforts ensure maximum value for both buyers and sellers, and our data-backed pricing methodology provides all parties with 100% pricing confidence.


text: What is your favorite interview question? Watch the video and hear our HR Leaders share their favorite interview question. CLICK HERE to learn more about the August 13 awards and networking gala. Comments Email Print July 31, 2013 Updated Related LinksThe Big Issue: March 14, 2011What happens if we're no longer witnesses? Morning Roundup Business headlines from Crain's Cleveland Business and other Ohio newspapers — delivered FREE to your inbox every morning. Sign up for the Morning Newsletter.


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Apple's iPhone Dissected: We did it, so you don't have toby Anand Lal Shimpi on 6/29/2007 10:17 PM EST
- Posted in
- Smartphones
- Mobile
40 Comments
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p1agu3 - Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - linkThe reason I know anandtech is one of my favorites on the web:
It's 2009. I see a news article: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=15880">http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=15880
I began wondering about the internals of an iPhone, as it had dawned on me that I'd never actually seen their guts before. So I immediately googled (to the right of my address bar...in Firefox) "iphone internals" and clicked on the first result. It brought me here...back to Anandtech again. Good job, guys and gals, and especially Anand: your hard work in consistent journalism is paying off. Thank you! :) Reply
p1agu3 - Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - linkMy bad, I neglected to mention I saw said news article from its mention in an anandtech article. whoops, haha. anyways, hopefully now that makes sense. Reply
alora222 - Monday, February 02, 2009 - linkTry the TripChill iPhone travel assistant the next time you travel. Get real-time flight alerts, book hotel and car, view alternate flights, notify friends of travel status, manage your itinerary, and much more.
http://www.tripchill.com">http://www.tripchill.com Reply
mikeepu - Friday, July 13, 2007 - linkJust a little FYI on iPhone Batteries
From Jason Snell's Article "The truth about iPhone battery lifespan":
"A true statement, as far as it goes. Batteries die. But many media reports this week have gone further. Take, for example, CNET's review of the iPhone, which states that "Apple is estimating one battery will last for 400 charges — probably about two years' worth of use."
Two years of use, the review says, and your iPhone dies. Or disappears in a puff of smoke, like those old tape recordings on "Mission Impossible." Sounds pretty awful, right?
Too bad it's completely wrong.
Apple estimates that the iPhone will lose 20 percent of its capacity — a darn sight less than 100 percent — "after 400 full charge and discharge cycles."
"Sadly, there are some inaccurate reports out there," Apple marketing vice president Greg Joswiak told me today during a brief phone call from New York City. Joswiak isn't quite sure where the story went off the rails — David Pogue's initial New York Times review of the iPhone mentioned the battery issue, but Pogue got it right: "Apple says that the battery starts to lose capacity after 300 or 400 charges."
Somehow, though, things got lost in translation. And follow-on reports started claiming that 300 to 400 charges would be the end of the line.
"After 400 complete cycles, the iPhone's battery still has 80 percent of its charged capacity," Joswiak said. "And by a complete charge cycle, I mean completely draining the battery, a full chemical cycle." In other words, using a little battery and then putting your iPhone back in its dock doesn't count as a charge cycle. If you use a quarter of your iPhone's battery and then re-charge it, Joswiak said, that's the equivalent of a quarter of a charge cycle.
"If you top it off, you're not wasting a charge cycle," Joswiak said."
http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/macword/2007/07/ip...">The Truth about iPhone Battery Lifespan Reply
CptanPanic - Thursday, July 05, 2007 - linkHas anyone seen a dissection of the dock? I want to see if there is any electronics in there. There is supposed to be some sort of authentication chip to tell iphone that dock is iphone compatable.
Roy2001 - Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - linkSo, are you able to put all parts back and make it work again? Reply
Xenoterranos - Monday, July 02, 2007 - linkI can think of 4 things you didn't do in this tear down, and all of them involve the battery... Reply
gregor7777 - Monday, July 02, 2007 - linkWow, the non-user changeable battery is a real problem methinks.
Apple is set to make a lot of money on that deal. The customer has to go without their phone for an unspecified period of time, foot a relatively hefty bill and then probably repeat the process a year later.
Model 2 has a user replaceable battery? Let's hope so. Reply
EODetroit - Monday, July 02, 2007 - linkI remember when it was a one-man show. Now just hope for a blog update... maybe an update on the value of the iPhone next?
Googer - Monday, July 02, 2007 - linkEngadget has confirmed the iPhone's processor.
http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARM1176.html">http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARM1176.html Reply
js2007 - Sunday, July 01, 2007 - link
Any signs of a hidden GPS chip on the iPhone? Could it be in the ARM package? Reply
js2007 - Monday, July 02, 2007 - linkI really think that GPS is in there somewhere on an unmarked chip.
No one noticed when Apple introduced the MBPRO with the 802.11.n only to be activated later for $1.99?
;-) Reply
psychobriggsy - Saturday, June 30, 2007 - linkI really thought that there would be an ATI Imageon or an nVidia GoForce inside the device driving the (extremely smooth and high-end for a mobile) graphics. I guess there isn't, so that ARM CPU is doing a load of work - unless Samsung licensed a mobile core from somebody (Imagination?). Maybe it is one of the other chips...
The sad thing is that the coverflow on the iPhone looks to be far more smoother than coverflow in iTunes on a Windows PC... Reply
Kensei - Saturday, June 30, 2007 - linkIt the Apple iPod Video (80 GB) Black supposed to be showing up in the AnandTech Deals area under the article's header? Reply
JarredWalton - Saturday, June 30, 2007 - linkThe deals basically come from a short text search. I don't think the iPhone shows up in the pricing engine, so Apple iPod gets pulled up instead. As you may or may not have noticed, the AT Deals area doesn't necessarily have links to the product being reviewed. :) Reply
Kensei - Sunday, July 01, 2007 - linkBefore I wrote the OP, I thought about it being a new product and not in the pricing engine, but then I noticed that the recently reviewed ASRock 4CoreDual-SATA2 had nothing in the AT Deals area. I guess there are no other ASRock products in the pricing engine (although I haven't actually looked).
Anyway, I don't think any of this is a big deal, I just found it all kind of curious.
Googer - Saturday, June 30, 2007 - linkI am surprised the iPHONE does not have or support 1394 for on the go video/data transfers. After all, Apple is the biggest proponent of the standard. Reply
CrystalBay - Saturday, June 30, 2007 - linkHow much does this phone cost to build ? Reply
JAS - Friday, June 29, 2007 - linkInteresting. You guys are fast. But it's sad to see a perfectly good iPhone put to death. Reply
bossman - Thursday, December 27, 2007 - linkhi yes i have an 8gb iphone and screwed it up i was wondering if anyone who has an iphone would like to sell me the top layer of the pcb board where the battery is connected too thanks firstname.lastname@example.com Reply
Che - Saturday, June 30, 2007 - linkSlice it up!! Great article guys, would love to see a video of the effort used to get in that phone. Reply
Oakenfold - Saturday, June 30, 2007 - linkThanks for the fast scoop!
Not sure I need one of those phones yet but I really enjoyed seeing how they are constructed. Perhaps the forthcoming review will tell me the marketing hype is real and that I need one of these devices... Reply
tuteja1986 - Friday, June 29, 2007 - linkMm... thats an expensive iphone to dissect. $500 + $30 + (60x24) = 1970. so if you killed the iphone through your dissection operation do you still have to pay for the 2 year contract your are signed on or can you get a replacement iphone some how ?
LukFilm - Friday, June 29, 2007 - linkThey don't pay $60 for 24 months, they can just cancel the service for $175 fee. Reply
Devo2007 - Friday, June 29, 2007 - linkActually, considering the iPhone is activated after purchase (at home), they may not have even signed a contract to begin with. (In other words, the pic at the beginning showing it's activated might be a different iPhone). Reply
DerekWilson - Saturday, June 30, 2007 - linkthe activated phone was in fact a different one. we never had service for the disassembled one. Reply
TA152H - Saturday, June 30, 2007 - linkHave you considered telling Apple that the battery inside exploded? It might work, right after you convince them it was a nuclear battery.
All kidding aside, how the heck is someone supposed to change the battery in this thing? I'm not a big fan of cell phones (my fiance wants one, that's the only reason I'm even asking) so I don't know much about them, but the batteries still go bad on them, right? Seems like a lot of money to keep spending if the battery doesn't last so long.
Also, when I see something like this, the first thing that crosses my mind is scratching the screen. It looks like replacing that would be out of the question too. Is the screen made out of glass? If not, is it very scratchable or very resistant to it? Reply
Griswold - Saturday, June 30, 2007 - linkYes batteries do go bad. And no, you're not supposed to change it by yourself. Of course you can try and void your warranty... but apple really wants you to send it in and have it changed by them, probably for a small fee somewhere around the $200 mark. Sony is/was the same with their PDAs... Reply
michael2k - Saturday, June 30, 2007 - linkWhy do you think would they charge that much? It only costs $59 for an iPod battery replacement from Apple, $79 for the iPhone:
There is a $6.95 shipping/handling fee, so that's really $66 and $86, respectively. Reply
PrinceGaz - Saturday, June 30, 2007 - link
It only costs $59 for an iPod battery replacement from Apple, $79 for the iPhone
I love the ironic/sarcastic (depending on intent) way you used "only" :) Reply
michael2k - Sunday, July 01, 2007 - linkNo sarcasm intended, sorry. A $59 battery replacement doubles the life of an iPod, as opposed to buying a brand new player from whole cloth.
$59 for a new batter vs $249 for a new iPod or $229 for a new Zune.
Makes $59 downright affordable, no? Reply
mikeepu - Saturday, June 30, 2007 - linkIn regards to the screen: Excerpt from David Pogues' Review of the iPhone from the New York Times
"... The glass gets smudgy — a sleeve wipes it clean — but it doesn't scratch easily. I've walked around with an iPhone in my pocket for two weeks, naked and unprotected (the iPhone, that is, not me), and there's not a mark on it"
Regarding Battery, I read on Pogues' and others reviews that the battery is replaceable by bringing it in or sending to Apple for replacement.
On a side note, I read somewhere (completely forgot where and now I can't seem to find it) that when you bring it in for a battery replacement that they (apple) will provide you with a "loaner" iPhone for a fee . Reply
DaveLessnau - Saturday, June 30, 2007 - link
Regarding Battery, I read on Pogues' and others reviews that the battery is replaceable by bringing it in or sending to Apple for replacement.
Where would someone take the phone to get the battery replaced? Some generic store that sells the phones or to an Apple store? Not every place has an Apple store anywhere nearby and there's no way anyone could afford (time-wise) to send their phone away for a couple of weeks just to change the battery. I can't believe anyone would make a phone where the most commonly replaced part (the battery -- mine usually last about a year) has to be replaced in the shop. Reply
mikeepu - Saturday, June 30, 2007 - linkI understand your point that not EVERY place might not have an apple store to bring it into but I would assume that if one somehow went out of ones way to acquire an iPhone then it wouldn't (or maybe shouldn't?) be too much trouble to send it/bring it in for replacement.
And besides we don't even know the details on the battery replacement program yet so it might be a bit unfair to say that it would take a couple of weeks for turnaround time. But then again you might be right. We'll just have to wait and see. Reply
DaveLessnau - Saturday, June 30, 2007 - linkFrom http://www.apple.com/support/iphone/service/batter...">Apple's iPhone Out-of-warranty Battery Replacement Program FAQ
What is the iPhone Battery Replacement Program?
If your iPhone requires service only because the battery's ability to hold an electrical charge has diminished, Apple will repair your iPhone for a service fee of $79, plus $6.95 shipping. Be sure to follow these instructions for optimizing battery life and troubleshooting battery charging issues before submitting your iPhone for battery replacement.
How much does it cost to participate in the program?
The program costs $79, plus $6.95 shipping. The program cost is $85.95 per unit.
All fees are in US dollars and are subject to local tax. Service may not be available if your iPhone has been damaged due to accident or abuse. Please review Apple's Repair Terms and Conditions for further details.
Will the data on my iPhone be preserved?
No, the repair process will clear all data from your iPhone. It is important to sync your iPhone with iTunes to back up your contacts, photos, email account settings, text messages, and more. Apple is not responsible for the loss of information while servicing your iPhone and does not offer any data transfer service. Please do not send any accessories with your iPhone.
How long will service take?
The repair process normally takes three business days.
From what I can see, the standard warranty on the iPhone is 90 days. So, unless you have some kind of extended warranty, normal battery replacement will cost you $85.95 and three days (I guess they're overnight-mailing things). Reply
jonp - Thursday, July 05, 2007 - linkGiven it's almost $100 and three days to get the battery replaced by Apple, and given how hard is was for Anandtech to get the thing apart, and that it comes back brain dead -- all personal data lost; it seems plausible that Apple simply sends a new phone in replacement and trashes the one the customer sends in. If that's what they plan to do; not very "green" of them. Reply
TA152H - Saturday, June 30, 2007 - linkAgain, I don't know anything about cell phones except they triple your chances of getting brain tumors (unless you use a headset), but isn't this kind of expensive? Do they normally charge this much to replace cell phone batteries? Also, $60 a month for 450 minutes seems really expensive, and that's only 15 minutes day. That seems like a lot to me as well, especially when the person that will own it is female and is not allergic to blabbing.
Overall, it seems like a lousy deal, or am I missing something? Reply
mikeepu - Saturday, June 30, 2007 - link
Do they normally charge this much to replace cell phone batteries?
I guess it kinda depends on the manufacturer and model of the phone?
I bought a second battery for my Motorola Q (sprint) for about around $70 from the sprint store (i could have bought a cheaper one through ebay but didn't want to risk getting a faulty battery).
Also bought backup battery for my LG Fusic for i think the same price as my Q battery. But my friend was able to get a replacement battery for her Motorola RAZR for like 30 Bucks or something like that. But i agree that 450 minutes seems really low, but at least it has unlimited data (internet). lol ohh and the visual voicemail thingy is really cool. Reply
strikeback03 - Monday, July 02, 2007 - linkAnother dumb decision by Apple just to make something "pretty" though. There are still people who carry multiple batteries because they can go through more than one. Obviously not an option with the iPhone. Reply
Rizi - Tuesday, July 17, 2012 - link<a href="http://cellocean.com/iphone-4s-specifications-2210... handset comes with an innovative suite of upgrades and a long list of reasons to jump at the opportunity to own one. Here are the top six reasons you should consider the iPhone 4S. First, if you're already an iPhone 4 owner, you can check out Apple's Reuse Recycling program to get cash for your old phone (if it's in good condition and proper working order). At the very least, that will help offset some of the cost of purchasing the newest iPhone model. Second, the iPhone 4S is the first ever model to be released with a 64GB version. Just think of all the music, video, games and apps you can store on your phone with that much space! The 64GB model goes for $399. Third, though the new iPhone 4S looks almost identical to its predecessor, the new version offers a whole lot of upgrade under the hood. Featuring an advanced 8 megapixel camera, a dual-core A5 processor and multi-tasking capability, and an extended battery life with up to 8 hours of talk time and up to 200 hours of standby power, the iPhone 4S leaves all other smartphones in a cloud of dust. Fourth, speaking of clouds, the iCloud is a seamlessly integrated file storage system offered on the new iOS 5. iCloud automatically stores all of your content, from music and photos to apps and e-mails, so that it's easily accessible from whichever device you happen to be using. Best of all, it's completely free to get 5GB of effortless storage. And since iCloud doesn't need to be manually synced with your devices, your content is always available, no matter where you are. Fifth, Apple has added Sprint to its list of service providers, giving you even more options. Plus, Sprint is offering iPhone 4S users unlimited data plans (no caps on data usage!) for a flat fee of about $110 per month. Sixth, the new iPhone 4S introduces the innovative, intuitive voice-commanded personal assistant software known as Siri. This state-of-the-art program can perform a wide range of actions, from locating the nearest pizza joint to sending a text message to your mom. Siri allows you to communicate naturally, asking questions or giving commands as if you were speaking to a human being. Siri utilizes some of the most advanced technology in the field, and interacts seamlessly with almost all the built-in apps on your iPhone 4S. It will wake you up in the morning, remind you to buy milk on your way home, and give you a heads-up if it's going to rain. The hands-free nature of the Siri app is about a lot more than just voice recognition – it's futuristic voice activation. The iPhone 4S may have disappointed some Apple fans by not being an iPhone 5, but the significant upgrades to the operating system and brand new performance and functionality features make the new iPhone a front-runner in the smartphone market and a great choice for any smartphone user. Reply


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Chandra Grahan, a penumbral lunar eclipse, will take place on July 7, 2009. According to NASA, the Chandra Grahan will not be visible to the naked eye and will take place at moon rise in parts of
Australia and at moon set in parts of Canada, United States, the Caribbean Islands and South America. The Chandra Grahan on July 7, 2009 will not be visible in . If you need to know the time of the Grahan you can read it in this article. India
Update: The next Chandra Grahan is on December 21, 2010 - You can find information in this latest article - Grahan December 21, 2010
The grahan will take place from 08:37 (UT) to 10:39 (UT) UT = universal time. The corresponding India time of the Grahan is from 1407 hrs to 1609 hrs on July 7th, 2009. Please note that it is not visible in India.
The following map shows the detail view of the Chandra Grahan in July 2009 around the world:
Image Courtesy NASA (click on the image for a larger view)
Most of the Hindu traditional calendars have not given any importance to the Chandra Grahan on July 7, 2009. This is because it is not visible to the naked eye and is only of academic interest.
Usually during a Chandra Grahan, a fast (Upvaas) is observed by certain communities in Hindu religion. The fast begins about 9 hours before the beginning of Chandra Grahan.
People also take a bath in cold water and chant mantras dedicated to Lord Vishnu or Shiva like the Ashtakshara Mantra or Mrityunjaya Mantra. This is done whenever Surya and Chandra are under the influence of Rahu.
But there is no need to observe any rituals during this Chandra Grahan as it is not of importance.
Please Note: We are getting several queries from Pregnant Women regarding this Grahan. You don't need to worry about this Grahan. It is only a partial eclipse and Hindu panchangs and calendars have ignored it. The grahan time is 08:37 GMT to 10:39 GMT. To know the time in your region just add or subtract from GMT. For example for India add +5:30 and the corresponding India Time is 14:07 to 16:09 hrs. More details about time can be found in this article.
You may also like to read


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Chris Lindner
What's it like being a total major rock star? You must have a lot of ladies asking for your number.
When I roll into the club, most girls don't know what rock climbing is. When I puff my chest and throw out, Yeah, I climb rocks, I better follow up with something cheesy immediately or I don't have a chance.
Like what?
Wow, your shoes bring out the color of your eyes.
You've been in the game forever. Do you think the chipped routes of the 90s helped or hurt the sport of climbing?Helped. I feel like you have to make mistakes before you learn from them. Now, the majority of the world doesn't approve of chipping tactics, so more people will think twice about putting the drill bit to stone.
Is chipping OK in certain situations?
I'm not a rock snob. As long as I am outdoors with good friends doing what I love, I am stoked. I am fortunate that sponsors help me travel around the world climbing on the best stone. But I am not everyone. I know plenty of people with families who work 40 or 50 hours a week, and they only have time and money to make it to the local - perhaps heavily chipped - cliff one day. If that cliff wasn't there, that person might not be able to climb at all. I do take a stand against drilling a route down to your ability level. If the route has holds, leave it alone. I have never chipped a hold in my life, and probably never will. Also, I have way more respect for the route developers who've established hundreds of routes with a few chipped holds here and there than the
people who sit in their office and try to defame these [developers] in their little online forums.
Describe your El Cap experience in five words:
Intimidating, sketchy, technical, beautiful and rewarding.
That's six.Whatever.
Describe the difficulties of El Nino.
The hardest part for me was constant death-fall potential on the easier pitches. I felt like I was escaping serious injury or death on pitch after pitch, and it seemed like just a matter of time before my luck ran out and I slipped and fell 60 feet. But we lived, and I think I am used to it now, so I can't wait to get back on the Big Stone!
What's your worst climbing injury?
Sprained my ankle trying to campus a boulder problem in my sandals the first climbing day of my trip to France. Had to climb with one foot for the first week.
What did you dream of becoming as a kid?
I wanted to be a rock-and-roll star and a pro surfer.
Is climbing like surfing?
It's so similar it is mind-boggling. People buy surf videos and magazines to see people living the ultimate lifestyle of traveling to exotic areas all over the world searching for the perfect waves. Climbing is the same exact thing.
What would you like to accomplish in the next five years?
Improving in both loves of my life. Focus on developing remote world-class climbing destinations with world-class surfing nearby.
Describe having a relationship and trying to climb your projects.
I will take advice from anyone who has it on this topic. I don't have a clue.


text: Shale Summit 2013 Session 1 "The Utica Shale Now" Comments Email Print February 11, 2013 Updated An overview of Ohio's shale oil and gas development thus far, through an examination of up-to-date statistics, and a view of what 2013 might bring. Related LinksThe Big Issue: March 14, 2011What happens if we're no longer witnesses? Morning Roundup Business headlines from Crain's Cleveland Business and other Ohio newspapers — delivered FREE to your inbox every morning. Sign up for the Morning Newsletter.


text:
A meteor shower sparked an explosion that left 250 people injured Friday in southern Russia, state media reported.
Of the hundreds, at least three were critically injured by broken glass, state-run RIA Novosti reported.
A bright white flash appeared in the sky for a few seconds, followed by a heavy "bang" that sounded like a blast, according to Russian News Agency Itar-Tass.
The meteorite fell 50 miles from Satka city, Itar-Tass reported.
Russian emergency officials said the meteorite was destroyed after it partially burned in the lower atmosphere over the Ural district.
Glass broke in high rise buildings, causing the injuries, the the Russian Emergency Ministry said in a statement.
An amazing video of the meteor on YouTube click here to watch it.


text:
Farewell to ATI, AMD to Retire the ATI Brand Later this Yearby Anand Lal Shimpi on 8/30/2010 12:02 AM EST
80 Comments
Back to Article
5150Joker - Sunday, August 29, 2010 - linkFirst there was 3dfx and now the ATi brand will be gone. It makes sense from a marketing point of view and AMD's reasons seem valid enough. However, as one of those gamers that grew up with ATi/nVidia/S3/Matrox/3dfx etc. it's a bit sad to see such an established brand removed from the market for good. Reply
PresupuestosPC - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkTrue story! Oh, boy, good times! Don't forget Number Nine, Trident, Rendition, 3DLabs, Real3D or PowerVR (I know they still exist doing mobile chips and such). Even SiS built GPUs back then!!
Sad day to us PC enthusiasts.
RIP ATI (brand). Reply
dingetje - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkanyone remember tseng labs (et4000)?
whatever happened to hercules?
good times... Reply
Belard - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linket4000...
Man YOU are OLD...! But yeah, remember when ET4000 was considered a kick-ass card, by PC standards.
BUT there is a difference of ATI vs. many of the others...
ATI is bought out and its technology, people and support continue. I'll miss the ATI logo... hey, nowadays it was getting a bit odd for branding to have two company colors with two 3-letter name products. So we have RED-AMD for Graphics and Green AMD for everything else. ;)
3Dfx self-destructed when they went into business for themselves. Nvidia concentrated on getting out GPUs every 6 months and 3Dfx bought STB (which was local and I had friends that worked for them) - funny thing, STB had just released and then phased out an excellent TNT card when the buy-out happened ;) The Voodoo 5/6 was a failure. To big, to hot, to expensive. Voodoo 3/4 had the issues of NO 24bit color which was showing in some games. If you look, you'd see Voodoo5 6000 cards with 4 (FOUR) GPUs on a single card! Look it up, its huge and had an external power supply. You could say, 3Dfx lives in Quantum3D which is still in business today - selling Military grade 3D Graphics systems.
Many of the old brands like Diamond, Hercules, etc depended on getting their GPUs (not much we'd consider GPUs by todays standards) from many sources. ATI was the only company that made their Chips and cards. It was when AMD bought out ATI and allowed other companies to sell ATI products that ALLOWED ATI to grow market share (hint hint Apple)
S3 Lives... in making junk expensive graphic cards that barely work. (Chrome)
Trident, just a name... Reply
pukemon - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkActually before AMD bought them in 2006 you could already buy "Powered by ATI" cards vs "Built by ATI" cards. Reply
Samus - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkI had an ET4000 in my Compaq Prolinea 4/25s, upgraded with a 486DX4-75 overdrive, overclocked via 25/33mhz bus selector to 100MHz. Unfortunately the lack of a PCI bus slot stuck me with that video chip for some time. It was just fine for Warcraft II and Doom II Deathmatch but when Quake rolled around with 3DFX support, the lack of VLB or PCI expansion forced me to dump the computer for my first home-built system: An AMD K5-75MHz overclocked to 120MHz. Reply
dingetje - Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - linkhehehe
I remember my first pc's....with 8088 cpu (also 8086 and 8086-2)
Of course that's all PRE 286, 386, 486 (anyone remember those cheap cyrix cpu's?)
The screens (mid eighties) were amber or green monochrome bulbs driven by "hercules" cards.
Somewhat later we got cga, then ega and finally vga (256 colors !!)) which really made "pc gaming" look awesome compared to 2 colors (B & W).
And let's not go into the storage technology we had :/ omg
Somehow the magic of those days is gone, but I'll gladly trade the magic for the kickass hardware we have now :P Reply
Edison5do - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkLets pray that dont happen... And as my self.... people use to love the ATI brand.. (in my old G3 Imac) good times... i have been tracking the ATI since early 2000´s and I could say for me... I have always seen ATI like better quality than AMD brand....... since they merge with ATI they have been 5 years Strugglin and now after 5 years they will make the fist CPU (wich its supposed to be their main concern) that "will" compete to Intel´s technology.
And all this time everybody have always seen ATI up high and AMD dont enjoy the same in lots of people minds. Reply
johnsonx - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkI had a tseng labs ET4000 ISA-16 card. Also an ATI Mach32 EISA card. Reply
johnsonx - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkin fact, I'm pretty sure I still have the Mach32 in a box somewhere (a cardboard box that is, not a PC... I doubt I have an EISA mainboard anywhere). Reply
dingetje - Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - linkVESA Local Bus ftw !!
lolz Reply
softdrinkviking - Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - linki think the et4000 was actually an ATI chipset. tseng just did the PCB and integration, ect. like buying an extremely redesigned radeon card today. there may have been some other secret sauce, but I'm pretty sure tseng was not the semi designer, just the one who put the stuff together. Reply
Rankor - Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - linkI came to the game with an et6000. That card screamed back then. Hooked that with a Diamond Monster 3Dfx Voodoo 1 via the passthrough cable and it was unbeatable! Reply
SandmanWN - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkSeems like a mistake to me. You have AMD CPU's, ATI Graphics, and Fusion combo, so after this everything is some derivative of an AMD logo.
Makes it much more confusing for people who don't know much about computers and are looking for the same ATI sticker on a new laptop to match up to an older model they are replacing.
Not to mention having another name gives you an escape goat if you ever make a product that fails and causes you bad publicity. Thats when you switch names. Reply
bji - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkHa ha! That's a new one! Reply
blyndy - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkIntel hates AMD news. There will be some incoming Intel news very soon to drown out the AMD news :-D Reply
silverblue - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkCare to share? Reply
vol7ron - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkI think this was speculative, but each company has so much going on, it's up to their marketing on whether to saturated the media.
My guess is that there is some SSD news on the way, though. Reply
Sabbathian - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkGood old times... me any my S3 Virge.... paired with Voodoo 1 .... those were the times... 12 MB of RAM on both cards together.... and now... I have 768 MB on one card! Darn ... I was happy when I got 64MB of RAM in those times :)... 4 GB now :)
Now when I buy something new... there is no excitement like there were before... is it me or ? Reply
MonkeyPaw - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkIt's hard because back then, an upgrade was usually a pretty substantial gain, and games really started to improve drastically with technology advances (like Quake to Q2 to Q3). Now an upgrade generation may make some games look a little better or run at a higher res, but those games were perfectly playable on what you had. Heck, an upgrade then used to even help make Windows faster. Hardly a problem today. Reply
vol7ron - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkWhile not as significant, I think this is still kind of true for the laptop market. Reply
vol7ron - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkI had other cards before, but it seems like it wasn't that long ago that I took a chance on ATIs All-In-Wonder 9600XT, possibly my favorite of the ATI brand.
It was my first DVR; plus it had a higher clock and more mem than the standard 9600XT, which made it a gaming contender. In a way I miss the old AGP.
I don't think this improves AMDs brand recognition, much like the merger of AT&T and Cingular caused more confusion than gain, but this could be an effort to suppress negative reviews and start fresh. Reply
Dennis Travis - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkAlso very sad to see ATI go away after all these years. I have used ATI as long as I can remember from some old PCI cards to the early Radeon to the All In Wonder series. Remember 3Dfx and all the other brands mentioned also, but ATI has always been a favorite of mine. Reply
scottwilkins - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkAt lead AMD will continue to innovate ATI products and bring new ones with the same great technology to market. Unlike nVidia who basically bought 3dFX just to bury them and keep others in the market from getting good technology. 3dFX truly died, and was laid to rest. ATI will continue to live on and on. Hooray for that!!! Reply
LauRoman - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkWhat i really will miss most from that logo si both the RADEON and ATi fonts. If they couldsomehow integrate at least the Ati font it would really be awsome. Sadly they won't be doing that because their biggest competitor phased their chipset(ish) logo and their processor logo and used a unifide logo. Reply
CloudFire - Sunday, August 29, 2010 - linkI'll still be calling my graphics cards ATi, I've loved this brand for way too long to be calling it AMD. At least they are keeping the red colored logo for recognition. :) Reply
AssBall - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkMe too. It will take a few years before I can start wrapping my head and tongue around calling them Radeon or AMD cards in normal conversation. Reply
ssj4Gogeta - Sunday, August 29, 2010 - linkAMD vs. Nvidia may seem stronger, but the ATI logo is certainly more familiar. Reply
Murloc - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkI'm not so sure about that.
For enthusiast, yes, of course.
But the average consumer reads radeon more often than ATI, and if you ask him he can't remember.
I think the move makes sense. Reply
punjabiplaya - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkRIP ATI, we will miss you. At least the core - Ontario gives them some recognition, lol. Reply
iamkyle - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkHopefully it spawns a Markham core in future ;) Reply
footprintz - Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - linkWhat about a Bowmanville core? Reply
stephenbrooks - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkAll this is fine to me apart from the "Vision" thing. So there's just going to be one sticker that doesn't tell you what sort of CPU it is, just has some meaningless word (CPUs do things other than "visual"). I suppose "Core" is slightly stupid too.
Also looking at past performance in their brands range I don't think they're going to resist the proliferation of different badges for long. "Vision" already has sub-brands. Reply
videogames101 - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkThis makes me very, very sad - No more Nvidia vs. ATI flame wars, it just won't be the same... Reply
Sabbathian - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkIt will ;) you`ll see in the months that are comming... Reply
jadormdrache - Monday, August 30, 2010 - link"1) AMD brand preference triples when the person surveyed is aware of the ATI-AMD merger."
wouldn't you want to come out with a badge that has both ati/amd on it for a few years to let the people that don't know AMD owns ATI?
I know anandtech readers know but people at work range from the "who is amd guy?" to the " I have a linux box in every room" guy. Reply
Spoelie - Monday, August 30, 2010 - link"wouldn't you want to come out with a badge that has both ati/amd on it for a few years"
Yeah, like theINQ coined a few years ago: DAAMIT! Reply
MC-Sammer - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkIt's always going to be ATi to me, as I'm sure it will be to everyone. Reply
ssj4Gogeta - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkSame here. Reply
adhan24 - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkAs branding goes you strive to build a strong image of permanence and ubiquity. Dropping the name ATi is a somewhat risky idea in the short term. Reply
chizow - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkThe day AMD kills off the ATI brand is going to be a date that lives in infamy for those conflicted fanboys that prefer Intel CPUs but would kill for ATI GPUs. Oh the confusion....and raaage that will ensue!
But in all seriousness, I'm not sure if this is a good move on AMD's part, as I would generally think of ATI as the more competitive part in their respective market (GPUs) than AMD, which is typically thought of more as a less competitive, value solution in their respective market (CPUs).
Then again, AMD probably figures they already paid enough with that $6B acquisition of ATI, adopting the ATI name on the letterhead would just add insult to injury even if its probably the more successful/competitive arm of the company. Reply
Googer - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkBased on my recent experience and past experience with an ATi 9700 pro which had drivers that were on par with nVIDIA. The drivers being released by AMD are not as good as they were prior to the merger. I am rather disappointed in my 5670's in ability to do 1920*1200 over RGBHV to my GDM-FW900. Instead I get a 640*480 signal sent down the wire that shows a small segment of my 1920*1200 desktop. It can be likened to a 9mp jpg on a 640*480 display where you must scroll from side to side to see specific parts of the image.
Even when I tell CCC to force a certain resolution, it still sends a crummy 640*480 signal down the wire.
See my forum post for details. Reply
B3an - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkYeah AMD/ATI drivers aint been as good for a longgg time now. It probably started when they decided to release them each month. It's good marketing to the many thick people that think more = better. But in a month they clearly dont have the time to make them good enough and fix many things. Sometimes they will even release a BETA driver that fixes something, but it does not get included in the final driver for up to 3 months.
Support for certain things with my 5870's drivers is only just coming together lately (especially with some Vvdeo software, options, and Flash video), but Nivida often have had this stuff working for months, sometimes half a year in advance. Reply
BanditWorks - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkBut it was about time if you ask me. Reply
GoodRevrnd - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linktime to ebay my 9700 pro as a collector's item. Reply
Overmind - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkThey should not drop the ATi logo and naming. It's been a symbol of quality for years.
At least they keep the red, which is a lot better then that old default AMD greenish. Reply
Camikazi - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkThey won't let go of the red, Nvidia is already green, making AMD graphics logo green too would be bad. AMD graphics logo will stay red. Reply
wyvernknight - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkI used to wonder why they didn't do this. I've always thought that AMD's brand recognition is fairly low (apparently not according to this survey) , whereas ATi's is stronger. I've always thought it would be smarter to tie the AMD brand to the ATi brand to create higher awareness and finally just use the AMD brand. I suppose they jumped straight to step 3. Reply
Sschevylt1 - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkI teared up when I heard this... Rip ATi :'( Reply
prime2515103 - Monday, August 30, 2010 - link"1) AMD brand preference triples when the person surveyed is aware of the ATI-AMD merger."
I find that surprising actually... Personally, I go out of my way NOT to call an ATi card AMD.
This is actually kind of sad... I feel threatened somehow lol Stupid marketing... Reply
Marburg U - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkAti is a brand that can beat the devil out of nVidia.
Amd is a brand that can merely get along compared to Intel.
ATI is a brand much more present than AMD in people's computer.
>"AMD brand preference triples when the person surveyed is aware of the ATI-AMD merger."
So, the problem is exactly when AMD goes alone on the field.
I think this is the worst choice those at amd would have picked. Reply
mino - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkIMHO they are doing this for LOONG term reasons and are prepared to feel the pain short-term.
Sad news, but necessary.
They had to merge sometime - just take the HP-Compaq confusion after all the years.
HD6000 is beyond NV reach, Ontario seems VERY promising, Lliano is going the way of a cash cow and Bulldozer, their future, is coming too.
Basically this moment is most probably their single best time for brand merging in the next 5 yrs. Reply
JimmiG - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkI find the "Radeon/FirePro Graphics" badges extremely boring and uninteresting.
The original "ATI Radeon" badge has got the ATI logo, which looks somewhat interesting with the way the A and i are written. The "Radeon graphics - AMD" has got the AMD logo which adds interest thanks to the little arrow. The plain Radeon Graphics logo however, has nothing interesting to draw attention to it, just an ugly compressed font. It looks like something that took 10 minutes to put together.
If Radeon is going to be kept as a brand name, they should at least go out of their way to make an interesting and attractive logo and typeface for it. Reply
AznBoi36 - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkIt's probably just a mock up. We'll see the real badges when they release their new products under the AMD name. Reply
ET - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkWhenever I post I always think whether to refer to the graphics cards as ATI or AMD. Now I finally won't have to. :)
I agree with AMD that the move makes sense, especially with Fusion. And Radeon really is a strong brand by itself. Reply
Hauk - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkWreckage! And here you thought he was just trying to stir up trouble. Nice one Wreckage.. Reply
softdrinkviking - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linklol.
50 points to anand for pandering to my inner geek's sense of humor Reply
Chalnoth - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkThey'll drop the ATI brand until the next time they release a poor product and want to "rebrand" their product lineup on the next iteration. The dropping of the ATI brand, in fact, may be an indication that their next architecture is a bit risky, which would make the name change a win/win for them: if the architecture does well, then the AMD brand gets a big boost. If the architecture is poor, then they can just re-brand their follow-up as "ATI" and that bad past is wiped away. Reply
softdrinkviking - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkit would be more risky to fool around with their branding, confusing the public. anybody really into the tech knows enough about the company to see through the marketing to some degree, but most folks just go out and buy something that looks familiar.
switching around their name is not a smart move unless they can be sure how the public will react.
it seems way too frivolous for AMD to bring back "ATI" in a generation or two because they feel a product underperformed.
that would show an incredible lack of integrity in the company, and probably kill off brand solidarity for both monikers.
i really think this is the real deal as far as going with AMD goes. even their website has been slowly converging the ATI/AMD sites into one megasite since the initial purchase.
i guess what i'm saying is that, i had a feeling this was coming; the writing was on the wall, ect. Reply
piroroadkill - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkAs much as I love the ATI brand, I don't really see anything wrong with this.
They're not killing the distinctitve red logo, and hopefully not the distinctive red boards (!) because, well, AMD's traditional colour has been green, and we know how confusing that would be.
You'll still be buying a Radeon, and you can keep calling it ATI if you want, since it's essentially the same guys. Reply
Sabbathian - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkI must say that I never liked ATI ... its cards, its drivers... nah ... I tried their cards 2 times and everytime I got back to NVidia ... but now, there is no more ATI, maybe its time to try out AMD? (Which I always liked, since my K6/2).... :) Reply
dingetje - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkyeah, but AMD keeps Intel honest.....well....less evil......so I'm happy with whatever AMD tries Reply
jfelano - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkCool. Reply
john3850 - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkThe two best cards I owned after 3dfx wer the 9700 and the XTPE.
When I went from a golden sample GF3 to Ati 9700pro WOW.
. Reply
rbfowler9lfc - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkATI recalls good
AMD recalls bad
Terrible choice! Reply
vooying - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkOmgosh man, ATI has been around like forever.
online-privacy.it.tc Reply
mentatstrategy - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkNvidia wins! Reply
scottwilkins - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkI've been ready for this since AMD aquired ATI. I amazed at how long it's taken.
Not a bad thing. In fact quite good. I think the "Radeon" TM is more recognized anyway. Reply
xboxist - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkMy last three graphics cards have been ATI (9700 pro, x1900xt, 5770). And this may seem like a lame reason, but I really chose those cards because of the ATI name. They've been great to me. For some reason I can't see myself getting excited about buying an "AMD" GPU next time. I've never used an AMD CPU, and Intel's stuff has worked flawlessly for me over the years. Because of this, AMD has a slightly negative cognizance with me.
Call me a casualty of branding, but I think my next graphics card might be my first Nvidia. Reply
TGressus - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkYou will be amazed you put up with the AMD driver quirkiness that continues to this day.
Not to say that booting safe mode to uninstall the latest .NET in order to load some old catalyst platform, whilst remembering to run as adminstrator, just to avoid total BSOD on boot isn't totally awesome. But you know you uninstalled CCC anyway, opted for display driver component only then had Ray Adam's tool put on your shit so you could actually adjust your card.
Fun times. Reply
Wellsoul2 - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkThe whole Vision thing seems dumb.
Now they can be as obfuscating and misleading as Intel with Core which I guess is the idea.
Cue "Vision Thing" by The Sisters of Mercy. Reply
Wrathbin - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkThis actually might be a brilliant move, everyone knows AMD cannot compete with Intels marketing but if they keep staying ahead in graphics people will come to know the AMD brand more, "Hey hun, AMD, you know the ones that made that good graphics card in our computer now sell CPU's, they must be good,lets get one" Reply
fire400 - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkThank goodness the logos are still red. Reply
Edison5do - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkin the beginin a didnt like it but...!! whatever.!! the ONLY thing i would say its.!! PLEASE JUST KEEP GOING WITH THE SAME QUALITY, AND BEING WORRIED FOR THE MAINSTREAM AND/OR BUTGET..... "PLEASE" Reply
Mr Perfect - Monday, August 30, 2010 - linkI'm glad to see some maturity here at Anandtech, both in the original article and the comments. Another site that I frequent posted rumors of this news last Monday and both the author and the commentators acted uncharacteristically poorly. Reply
Etern205 - Tuesday, August 31, 2010 - linkFrom BernardP
"In other news, following its acquisition of Porsche earlier this year, Volkswagen AG has decided to get rid of the superfluous Porsche brand, in order to emphasize the importance of the Volkswagen brand.
Consequently, starting with the 2011 model year, the Porsche Turbo Carrera will be known as the Volkswagen Turbo Carrera." Reply
rjlew - Saturday, September 04, 2010 - linkBeing a computer gamer and hobbyist since the 8088 and a CGA (before EGA and VGA) card, I have had my fair share of graphics boards (Orchid Fahrenheit 1280+ VLB, Tseng ET4000 PCI, etc. to name a few).
My first ATI card was an ATI Xpert@Work card with 4MB of RAM. This got me by on my Pentium 2 -233 MHz on Win 95 OSR2 at 1024x768 res with 32 bit color and allowed me to almost watch DVD movies. I then paired it with a 3DFx Voodoo 2 card for Unreal Tournament (GLide, not Direct X). Good Times Baby!!
This then got replaced with a Voodoo 3 card with 16 MB RAM and a Celeron 400 replacement SEC cpu from Evergreen, same mobo and case on Win 98 Second Edition.
I then bumped this again with a NVidia GF3 Ti 200 Gainward card and an AMD Duron 900 on an EPox mobo, same case.
Today, I still have this same case with an ATI 9600 AIW OC'd from 400 to 500 MHz with a MSI KT333 mobo and an AMD Athlon 2600+. I have since retired this computer but have it as a standby Win XP machine.
Since then I have moved on to the Athlon 64 3000+ and Opteron 170 with the Nvidia 6800GT (became wife's machine). Currently I am with my Core 2 Quad Q6600 @3.2 with the Nvidia 9800GTX (BFG) in a newer Antec 900 chassis. Although my last few graphics boards have been Nvidia (largely attributed to my timing on new builds), there were fond memories with the ATI boards and LAN parties. The ATI 9600 AIW came with the freebie HL2 coupon, which got me into CS:Source, etc. from Valve, who were big on ATI cards. It has been a fun ride going between the ATI and Nvidia graphics choices, always a tug of war and always great for the consumer. The 3DMark benchmarkers will surely miss the ATI name.
RIP ATI brand, you will be missed. AMD, don't let us down. I love what the 4850, 5850, Eyefinity, and thousands of stream processors have done for PC gaming as a whole. Reply
Psyrecx - Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - linkI like the ATi brand name more, I'd personally rather see them retire the AMD name. Lately it's been a black mark on the market. I still think this even though I still buy their CPU's. Hell I think I would have ordered my 1090T even quicker if it had been called an ATi 1090T... Reply
ReaM - Sunday, November 28, 2010 - linkBad,
because it is NOT true, that AMD seems like a stronger brand than ATI.
Take last three years into account: AMD CPUs lost to Intel's in every market niche: mobile, desktop and server. Especially in mobile market, which became more important in the second half of 2010 as there was a shift from desktop to mobile computing, both power savers like netbooks and performance monsters like C2Duo chips (I still own the 2,2Ghz Macbook Pro from 2007) have been dominating the markit until today.
ATI, on the other side, came with its 4000 series very far and with its 5000 series made NVIDIA lag behind for six month. Its introduction and use in iMacs until present day is another happy story.
If ATI were a separate public traded company, its stock would have advanced MORE than AMD since the downturn of the market. Intel's stock looks much healthier than AMD's. Reply
Travis piper - Thursday, December 02, 2010 - linkI think the way of Ati and Intel being mixed is good, but Amd is also good, I don't think Amd has done much with graphics and that's why I feel there new graphics cards are worse with smaller gpu's, I compared it to an older version and the older version was faster when running the same games. There's no room for me to complain however because Amd did buy out Ati from what I heard. Reply