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Intel Z77 Motherboard Review with Ivy Bridge - ASRock, ASUS, Gigabyte, and MSIby Ian Cutress on 5/7/2012 7:40 PM EST
- Posted in
- Gigabyte
- ASRock
- Motherboards
- Asus
- Ivy Bridge
117 Comments
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faizoff - Monday, May 07, 2012 - linkAre Q connectors proprietary of ASUS? I seem to find those only their motherboards. Love them to death.
Great review. I enjoy these tremendously. Almost makes me go out and upgrade my i5 2500k. Reply
Impulses - Monday, May 07, 2012 - linkMy MSI P67A-GD55 has the same thing, unfortunately the connector block is too tall and bumps into my second 6950 so I couldn't use it. Reply
eBob - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkI, too, am a fan of the Q Connector mostly for the front panel connections (power, reset, HDD light). The USB and audio connectors seem to be pretty well standardized at this point, rendering those Q Connectors redundant IMO. This would seem to be a very simple and inexpensive feature for a mobo manufacturer to have (at least for the front panel connector). Reply
bji - Monday, May 07, 2012 - linkThank you for including this important benchmark. I hope that every motherboard review going forward will include this.
The ASRock has the best time but 8 seconds is still too long. I wonder why BIOS developers can't get their act together and initialize hardware in parallel. That would surely speed POST times up tremendously. Reply
adrianlegg - Monday, May 07, 2012 - linkI've been struggling about that issue myself. I mean - it probably was in times of BIOS, but now, with all fancy UEFI is it really that hard? (considering more resources spent on bios/uefi in mobo)
Altough I'm not big fan of 200$+ motherboards, I would seriously consider buying one if it POST in 2s.
Even though there are probably POST requirements such as cpu cant be tested before ram or opposite it would be awesome to have really low boot times.
Sad when even having SSD cant give You instant full boot (not hibernations/sleeps).
It's one of those small features that are soo awesome (like reset/power buttons, and perhaps, in future : complete per component (ram/disk/SB/NB/coolers) power usage).
Nevertheless 8seconds is damn nice. Reply
EnzoFX - Monday, May 07, 2012 - linkDoes anyone know how enabling AHCI in the UEFI affect post time these days? I'd like to remove the other 7-10 seconds this adds to it. Reply
pixelstuff - Monday, May 07, 2012 - linkHow do those Chromebooks shave time off of the POST? Seems like similar techniques could be implemented unless there is a good reason not to. Reply
rahvin - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkChromebooks use OpenBIOS IIRC. OpenBIOS is Linux Kernel based and boots very fast because it initializes things quicker and it's custom built to the hardware on the board. Personally I wish all the Boards would start using it and toss these BIOS down the hole of history. Reply
DanNeely - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkThey've got a very stripped down set of hardware to initialize. The more stuff you have on board, the longer it takes. EFI was supposed to fix this by allowing multi-threaded boot (BIOS was strictly a single threaded design); but either firmware makers aren't generally taking advantage of it yet, or dependencies in the startup process are limiting the gains. Reply
Jase89 - Sunday, May 19, 2013 - linkDon't forget the graphics card (if using discrete) will need to support UEFI (GOP) Booting too! Reply
Jase89 - Sunday, May 19, 2013 - linkHaving RAID Option ROM Supported in UEFI as well (people using RAID) is a very good thing ASRock have done with their Z77 series, wonder when Gigabyte will add this feature, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1TbdVtAE9c Reply
gramboh - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkJust wanted to add that my new P8Z77-V Pro POSTS significantly faster than what Ian experienced in this review, probably due to my configuration:
Intel SATA: AHCI
ASmedia USB3: on
ASmedia SATA controller: off
Wifi: off
Onboard sound: off
My total time from splash screen to Windows 7 Pro x64 login is 15 seconds on a Mushkin Chronos Deluxe 240GB. The post is about 6 seconds (hand timing these). It's unfortunately the other controllers add ~14 seconds of POST time. Reply
IanCutress - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkHi Gramboh,
Disabling ASMedia SATA, Wifi and Sound would obviously decrease POST time by quite a bit! As I doubt the majority of non-enthusiast buyers would go into the BIOS and disable what they don't need, I kept the start up sequence the same as default to reflect this.
Ian Reply
DanNeely - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkA large number of your readers are enthusiasts. Giving both sets of numbers would be beneficial for us. A per onboard device breakdown of boot time would be nice; but probably too much work to be justified. Reply
IanCutress - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkI've added 'POST Quick' to my internal database of testing, with the aim to turn off all I can to observe POST times. Will be applied from the next review onwards, perhaps retroactively if I get time.
Ian Reply
AlexIsAlex - Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - linkAwesome, thank you so much!
Perhaps the manufacturers will pay attention to this too :-) Reply
Paapaa125 - Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - linkI think most Anandtech readers DO go to BIOS to set things up. I think it is crucial to know if the differences in performance (boot time, benchmarks, power consumption etc) can be minimized just by changing BIOS settings. That would make it a lot easier to buy a new board.
I have seen reports that some boards don't follow the Intel specs regarding Turbo Boost settings and utilize higher frequency with all cores utilized. This skews the performance results greatly. Those following the specs get worse results - yet they could be configured for exact same performance. Reply
dananski - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkMakes me really glad to have ordered the ASRock, though I wonder how it would be affected by having RAID enabled? My GA-P35C-DS3R takes about a minute to get through POST and RAID screens.
I am also confused why even the quick one is taking so long. My laptops take less than 5 secs to POST :/ Reply
EnzoFX - Monday, May 07, 2012 - linkATX just seems like it's for bragging rights, and not even directly so, simply because you'll be able to say you have so many things connected, maybe you even have tri or quad SLI, all in a huge case. Can we get some coverage of mATX boards?
On another note, something that drives me nuts is the AHCI driver loading at POST. Last time I checked I couldn't find a straight answer, does this loading stage still happen in ivy bridge? Of course you don't have to use AHCI, but it really should be standard and enabled by default. At least for anyone spending this much on a motherboard. Reply
EnzoFX - Monday, May 07, 2012 - link"Conclusion – Gigabyte MSI Z77A-GD65"
One more rant lol. Is having all 4 video outputs really a feature? Is this not targeted at people who will be using their own graphics card? In which case they only serve to use up space that could be used towards USB ports or something else that's almost as useful. Remember before P55, 10 usb ports were starting to be the average on a feature filled board, now we have to settle for 6-8. Unless you want to spend top dollar for more. Reply
vegemeister - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkYes, it is a very important feature. The Ivy Bridge IGP can drive 3 monitors. 4 display outputs means 3 of them are digital.
Discrete GPUs increase idle power consumption, an as of this post none of them have particularly good open source drivers. Some of us just want lots of screens, good compiz performance, and silence. Reply
philipma1957 - Monday, May 07, 2012 - linkI have been building a series of matx htpc/gamer machines.
I have one with the basic
Gigabyte GA-B75M-D3H mATX board
and one with the
Gigabyte Ga-h77m-d3h mATX board.
I want to decide between
the ASUS P8Z77- m pro mobo or
the ASUS p8z77-m board and
last but not least the
Gigabyte Intel Z77 LGA 1155 AMD CrossFireX/NVIDIA SLI DVI/HDMI/DisplayPort Dual UEFI BIOS mATX Motherboard G1.SNIPER M3 .
I am liking the two builds I did with the lowend gigabyte boards and some intel i5 t2500t cpus I want a better board but I don't have many reviews to go by. Reply
EnzoFX - Monday, May 07, 2012 - linkIt just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Are most DIY'ers really opting for ATX? Should they? I'd bet most people only plug in a video card and maybe one other card such as wireless or even a tuner. Every other possible need they may have would not only be met by mATX but even ITX is pretty full featured these days.
You'd think mATX would be what most boards are targeted at, and leaving ATX for extreme builds/bragging rights. It's just like those high end video cards, most people don't buy those, rightfully and importantly so. Those should be the premium prices, and mATX should have a lower price. The focus just feels off. Reply
Zoomer - Monday, May 14, 2012 - linkYou mentioned people want mATX board. There by itself probably means that it can command higher prices, due to higher price tolerance of the purchasers. Reply
Caeric - Monday, May 07, 2012 - linkEnjoyed the review. I still have an old AMD dual core, and I'm considering a new system in the next couple of months so these help a great deal.
I did find one error in the article, under the ASUS board:
"The ASUS P8Z77-V Pro retails at $225-$235, essentially $100 less than the ASRock Z77 Extreme4..."
It should say "...essentially $100 more than the ASRock..." Reply
Movieman420 - Monday, May 07, 2012 - linkCurious as to this controllers' performance vs the ever present Marvell controllers. Does it use a pci-e lane or usb3 for it's bandwidth? Reply
FozzyofAus - Monday, May 07, 2012 - linkGreat review.
I'm leaning towards mATX as well for this build as I've never used more than four expansion slots and currently I'm only using 3 (one is USB3 which won't be needed in the new board).
I'd like to have a bit more room in my current case and the option to reuse this motherboard in a smaller case in future if I upgrade my main rig to Haswell next year.
Any chance of adding Asrock Extreme4-m to the next motherboard roundup? Reply
spronkey - Monday, May 07, 2012 - linkSorry guys but this review was a bit average. Comment on the various different controllers used by the motherboard manufacturers but don't offer any kind of review on them?
The good additions: DPC latency and boot time.
The missing? Well everything else.
I was especially hoping for a comment on the VIA audio on the UD3H - it's been a while since I've seen VIA codecs on mainstream boards.
I'm also amazed that you didn't slam the ASUS board for it's price and lack of features. Realtek 892? On a board that's nearing twice the cost of the ASRock? Seriously?
No comment on the durability of the boards either? Hrm. No separation in testing of the different controllers on each board?
A bit lacking, sorry. Reply
ggathagan - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkPerhaps you're commenting on the wrong review.
As Ian stated multiple times throughout the review, Asus is using Intel NIC's on their boards, in this case, the Intel 82579V.
Durability is a function of time. Please point out the other motherboard reviews that covered durability. Reply
spronkey - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkHe stated ASUS were using Intel, sure. But didn't get into any details other than stating they exist about the fact that there are multiple USB3 controllers and SATA controllers on each board. No benchmarks comparing them etc.
In fact does it even mention which controllers were tested?
And Durability is a function of construction quality and time. It would be nice to see comments on points such as board weight and flex, quality of soldering, quality of components used on the board (according to an electrical minded person on OCN, Gigabyte uses significantly higher rated MOSFETs than other manufacturers), temperatures of chipsets and VRM circuitry. These are things I can't easily find out by reading manuals. Reply
Zoomer - Monday, May 14, 2012 - linkConstruction quality analysis would be a good addition, imo. Perhaps the mobo roundups can be done by a team instead of just 1 person. ;) Reply
457R4LDR34DKN07 - Monday, May 07, 2012 - linkI am always impressed by the depth of reviews by AT. I can't wait for the mITX roundup!
P.S. any comment on availability of i7 3770t? Reply
ltcommanderdata - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkhttp://www.geeks3d.com/20120506/intel-hd-graphics-...
It turns out Intel's new Windows 8 beta driver (v2729) works for Windows 7 and enables OpenGL 4.0 and OpenCL 1.1 support for Ivy Bridge. Can you try your OpenCL Compute benchmarks on them? Perhaps a OpenGL Unigine run as well to test OpenGL tessellation? Reply
althaz - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkSo glad to finally get a tech site benchmarking POST times. One point of constructive criticism: I realise this would take more time, but ideally it'd be good to benchmark POST times both at default settings AND with everything possible disabled, so that we can get a true comparison between boards. Even with all features disabled, I've come across older boards where there is still 10+ seconds of difference in POST times.
All in all, thanks for a great review! Reply
ZeDestructor - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - link"The ASUS P8Z77-V Pro retails at $225-$235, essentially $100 less than the ASRock Z77 Extreme4" Should be "$100 more", not "$100 less" Reply
adrien - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkI really wish 10GbE was on mainstream motherboards but I think you've mixed bits and Bytes here. ;-) Reply
Casper42 - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - link10Gbase-T is a power hog and requires special cabling if memory serves me right.
DAC by way of SFP+ is too short and too expensive.
Fiber transceivers cost more than any of these entire motherboards.
How do you propose they get there?
There is a Broadcom chip that does 2.5Gbps when connected to a 10Gb switch and 1Gbps on a 1Gb switch. Maybe that's a good compromise Reply
Metaluna - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkI agree it seems unlikely that 10GbE over copper will ever reach sufficient critical mass to be economical for consumers, especially with wireless standards continually improving. Maybe Thunderbolt is the way forward for small high performance wired SANs in the home? Reply
Zoomer - Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - linkThunderbolt is not the answer, due to limited range. Reply
theSeb - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkYep, since MBps is used correctly for the USB 2 and USB 3 charts I was surprised to see 400 megabytes per second over a gigabit ethernet link. :) Reply
SnowKing - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkI think you are confusing bits per second vs. bytes per second. Do not be alarmed, that is the gimmick of Ethernet.
10 mbps (megabits per second) = 1.25 MBps (megabytes per second)
100 mbps (megabits per second) = 12.5 MBps (megabytes per second)
1 gbps (gigabits per second) = 125 MBps (megabytes per second)
If you want 1 GBps, you will need an 8 gbps connector i.e. (10gbps nic)...and good luck with that.
Unit Converter
http://www.numion.com/calculators/units.html Reply
repoman27 - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linktheSeb's (and originally adrien's) point here is that the chart for LAN speeds erroneously list MBps instead of Mbps. Reply
HollyDOL - Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - linkTransfer speed is always measured in bps (bits per second).
Latin prefixes for kilo-Mega-Giga etc. signify 10^3,10^6 etc. bits
Capacity volume is always measured in B (bytes).
Latin prefixes for kilo-Mega-Giga etc. signify 2^10, 2^20 etc. Bytes (ie. 1kB = 1024 Bytes) according to old school rules.
According to new customs kilo-Mega-Giga signify 10^3,10^6 etc. Bytes, prefixes kB, MB, GB, while alternate prefixes kiB,MiB,GiB signify 2^10,2^20... Bytes. Data storage capacity uses new style kB,MB,GB,TB for long years since it makes their drives look bigger, while on hardware and OS level you are much more likely to see units based on power of two since it is much more natural for binary computer.
Basically 10Mbps = 1.25MB/s is completely wrong... 10Mbps = 10,000,000bps = 1,250,000 B/s = 1.192 MB/s
1TB (new style or storage device manufacturers) = 931,32GiB Reply
Schafdog - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkWhat is draw of power from GPUs? Reply
IanCutress - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkThe 7970s should Idle at approx 3W or less each. Reply
gorg_graggel - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkthe current asus lineup seems to have problems with memory configs that consist of 8GB dimms...
their list of supported memory modules seems to be made for multiple boards...it contains configurations for e.g. 6x4gb for boards that have only 4 slots...so i guess it`s not only a problem with my board...
i got myself a sabertooth z77 and a pair of corsair 1600mhz 8gb dimms. no matter how conservative i set the timings the board won`t boot at 1600mhz and freeze after some time at 1333mhz (spd or xmp don`t work either). i can only get them stable at 1066mhz. a single dimm runs fine at the specified clocks and timings.
could you spare some time and test the boards with a 1600mhz config with 2 8gb dimms? or even with 4 of those? no underclocking of higher specced dimms, as there is a 2x8gb@1866mhz config in the list...
would be interesting to know if all those boards had problems with ivy brigde`s max specified dram clocks...
i guess it will be fixed in a future bios update, but maybe beeing pointed out by a respected site, they are gonna hurry it up a bit...i mean c`mon 1600mhz rams at 1066mhz? seriously... Reply
gorg_graggel - Monday, May 14, 2012 - linkso, i got myself another pair of 8gb dimms...
g.skill ripjaws 1600mhz, cl10...
those worked from the get go...also not on ovl list...
the latest bios (1015) made the corsair dimms work better @1333mhz (no more freezing), but still no 1600 (for which they are specified)...
so if you plan to get 8gb 1600mhz dimms for your asus board, steer clear from corsair vengeance low profile dimms...at least until the bios has matured some more... Reply
Luay - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkThe $225 Asus V Pro has the Realtek ALC892 audio chipset while the $148 Asrock Extreme4 has the 898! Not everyone wants or can install a sound card so what are they thinking?
GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UD5H-WB Has wireless, 898 audio chip and a third PCI-E 3.0 slot for $219. That's a good reason to pay an extra $70 over the Asrock Extreme4 as I don't really care about auto-over-clocking.
Only Asrock at budget and Gigabyte at mid-end are in it to win it. Not enough high-end boards to tell who won there.
I am shocked by what Asus put on the table but I might be missing something here. Reply
blacksun1234 - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkGigabyte's third PCI-E 3.0 slot cannot work if CPU BCLK OC only 1MHz to 101MHz. It is buggy M/B. Don't buy it. Reply
blacksun1234 - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkI mean GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UD5H-WB . GA-Z77X-UD3H is Ok for 3rd PCI-E 2.0. Reply
Paapaa125 - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkArticle: "With a lot more controllers to initialise on board, the ASUS P8Z77-V Pro requires at default 20.47 seconds to reach the windows loading screen. By disabling controllers that aren't used, a time more like the ASRock could be achieved."
Did you actually test this?
And a suggestion: please test Intel DZ77BH-55K motherboard. It is the only board besides MSI to use the better ACL898 and Intel LAN chip but without other useless bulk (like secondary LAN etc). It seems to have superior BIOS to many others. Reply
IanCutress - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkHi Paapaa125,
I should have an Intel Z77 board inbound to test. I have about 5 others to test as well, and some ITX. Currently reviewing boards in my spare time, so please bear with me as I get through them all! :)
Ian Reply
Paapaa125 - Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - linkGreat to hear that! And no need to rush, I can wait :) I hope you test these things:
Boot time. Fan control settings. Power consumption. Lan speed/CPU util. Audio quality. And check if the Turbo Boost settings actually are identical. Otherwise the benchmark results are unbiased.
I'm actually more interested in other features than pure computational speed and benchmark scores. The differences are usually insignificant, but the differences in other areas might be big. Reply
althaz - Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - linkSomebody further down the thread posted a message that they configured their Asus 'board to POST much quicker than above.
I second request for Intel board reviews! I am particularly interested in the DZ77GA70K as well as the 55K mentioned by Paapaa125. I've been hearing good things about the GA70K but I'm hesitant to commit without finding out about POST times and I'd also like to see if performance is the same between the 55K and 70K. Reply
Shadowmaster625 - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkCan you give us realistic power supply measurements? I am interested in building a fairly fast system that is pretty much always on. So the idle power needs to be as low as possible. I would use a smaller power supply that is at least 85% efficient @ 50 Watts. And no video card. With just one SSD and one optical drive. My best napkin-guess would be an idle power of 40-45 watts. Reply
Silenus - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkThat's a fair guess for idle. The problem you will have is that ideally you will want a high efficiency supply that at idle is at least 20% loaded. For you 40-45 idle that means you would need a supply probably not more than 200 watts. It is hard to find a 80+ supply at those lower powers. You might consider a small form factor supply. This is just about fits your requirement:
http://www.neweggbusiness.com/Product/Product.aspx... Reply
Shadowmaster625 - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkThat might be a good choice. I wonder if I would still be able to hit 4.3GHz with that supply. I would definitely keep it at stock volts. Reply
haakon_k - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - link..or try the 80+ gold alternative from seasonic, if you can find a shop that sells it, 300 or 350W - optionally modular.
Unfortunately without any PCIe 6 pin power connector, if you so should get tempted... Reply
Avalon - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkWell that review went as expected. MSI underperformed, Asus was needlessly expensive, Gigabyte had memory issues, and Asrock OC'd with lower voltages. That;s mirrored my experiences in the past few years. Reply
goldie.lin - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkThanks for the nice benchmarks, USB, SATA, LAN, Power Consumption, ...
Especially, I appreciate the "DPC Latency" and "Boot Times" tests.
It very useful and practical!!!
Keep working, AnandTech. Reply
DarkRogue - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkFirst off, thank you for the review.
I am a bit bummed that the UD5H and the Z77 Deluxe were not reviewed, since those were the two I was looking at. Especially since the UD5H can be had for under $200.
Anyway, the voltage ripple/stability charts were quite interesting for me.
But my main concern lies with the Gigabyte's chart. It looks good... but in my eyes, TOO good. It's too perfectly straight. On one hand, I thought, "Wow, this board has awesome VRM or something."
On the other hand, it made me suspicious about why it was so stable. I have to ask, is it measuring the correct voltage?
The reason is because I had a similar finding when I was looking at the vcore requried to OC an IVB CPU (or any CPU, really) on the new Z77 mobos.
Per my thread here: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=22417...
We found that Gigabyte mobos were incorrectly reporting its VTT voltage as the vCore, which resulted in "vcore" readings in CPU-Z and other programs reporting the same, or very similar, 1.0xx voltages regardless of what the CPU OC'd to.
I hope to be able to get some clarification on this.
Only other suggestion I have is to really test more of the features of each motherboard. (mSATA, firewire, audio, etc; how do they compare with other chipsets, how are their drivers, etc..)
Thank you, and keep up the good work! Reply
IanCutress - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkHi DarkRogue,
I have the Deluxe on my test bed right now, so keep your eyes peeled for when I finish the review.
Regarding the voltage reading charts, it merely reads the OS reported voltage. This is loosely a smoothing of what ripple actually happens on board. After consideration, it only serves to show LLC on board, and how the board reacts to requested load by the processor. It's fairly easy for a manufacturer to override this to make sure only a straight line is reported. But, if it is a messy line, then there could be a problem (e.g. check my 990FX review a little while ago).
I'd love the kit to test more features on the boards (mSATA etc), if you've got any kit spare! :) Though keep in mind that each test can't take 2 hrs, or we would end up with 1 board a month reviewed (as we do this part time)! I'm open to suggestions regarding tests if anyone has a good one with a simple output I can report and analyse.
Ian Reply
DarkRogue - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkThank you for your response, Ian!
I wish I had the funds to send in spare items, though. Unfortunately, I'm not quite rich enough, haha. We'll have to be bound by the generosity of the various vendors to this site.
As far as tests go, I imagine some people would be interested in a quick RMAA test of the various audio chipsets. It's of no concern to me, since I insist onboard solutions are never going to be as good as a dedicated external DAC+amp, but it should be good for a lot of people.
I'd also be interested in how the eSATA and Firewire performs, as I'm of the camp that says anything firewire related that isn't Texas Instruments is not worthwhile. The eSATA, mainly it's to see if there are any quirks with the drivers from each manufacturer allowing hotswap properly or not, and whether it causes DPC latency issues. My friend's ASUS board was plagued with problems related to eSATA not allowing him to eject drives, BSOD'ing on resuming from sleep, causing massive DPC latency when a drive was connected, etc. It's these little things that really make or break the experience of a board.
I'd also like to see how well the fan controls are on each motherboard. ASUS' Fan Xpert 2 really drew me in, as it seems no one else can match the level of customization for fans. I dug a bit and found out that Gigabyte's boards not only cannot do this, but it even struggles to stay consistent between its various headers. (One header runs straight +12v no matter what, while the others make the fans spin at different speeds with the same settings.)
ANYWAY, back to the issue at hand - Gigabyte's voltage readings.
As I found in my thread linked above, Gigabyte appears to be reporting the wrong voltage, for some unknown reason. This to me seems to invalidate the test result for the Gigabyte board, because it's incomparable to the others.
I know that the purpose of the test is to test for variation in the voltage to the CPU, not necessarily the exact ripples, but the VTT supplies voltage to a completely different segment than the vcore, unless I'm mistaken. I wouldn't think that the voltage supplied toward the IMC would vary as much when the CPU ramps up and down.
Is there a way to force that program to probe a specific/different voltage reading, or have you already done this and the chart actually does represent Gigabyte's handling of vcore voltage? I wasn't able to figure that out from the article.
Thank you again! Reply
UltraWide - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkThank you so much for covering the fan control features on each board! I truly appreciate this as it is often left out in other reviews.
Keep up the great work! Reply
AeroRob - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkI don't know about anyone else, but I'm really sick of seeing VGA and PS/2 ports wasting space on new motherboads.
I know some gamers might think that PS/2 does the job better than USB, and I can appreciate that, but VGA? Who even uses VGA connections anymore? They should be avoided like the plague.
And even if you do insist on using a VGA connection, what's the point of putting a DVI-D connector and a VGA together? Chances are you won't be using both, so just make it a DVI-I connector and throw in one of the cheap DVI>VGA adapters, and use the newly freed up space for a connector that isn't an ancient piece of garbage. Let's see HDMI or DP up there. Move things around so you can perhaps throw an eSATA connector on the back, or more USB ports--you can never have too many USB ports! Reply
Paapaa125 - Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - linkPS/2 has one single thing that makes it superior to USB: you can turn your computer on by clicking space bar on a PS/2 keyboard or clicking mouse button on a PS/2 mouse. USB does not have this feature which is a big problem if your computer case is not easily reachable.
Agree about VGA ports. Nobody uses them anymore. Nobody. Reply
AeroRob - Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - linkAs I understand it, gamers feel there's an issue with USB's polling rate, and prefer PS/2 for that reason.
As for turning on your computer, I never heard about that. I rarely shut my computer completely off, and my wireless USB keyboard can wake it up from sleep just fine. Hell, my computer's so sensitive to any change, just flipping my monitor back on wakes it up (probably due to the built-in USB hub). Reply
mcquade181 - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkI know whole organizations that still use VGA, and there are tons of KVM switch boxes in development and testing centres everywhere that only support VGA. Yes I know you can get HDMI and DVI KVM's but most places won't have them yet.
I still use VGA occasionally and would be annoyed if it wasn't there. Reply
Paapaa125 - Friday, May 11, 2012 - linkAnd how many of those organizations are switching to Z77 boards and still keeping their VGA? Reply
Ramon Zarat - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkThe latest AXTU version does not include XFastRAM anymore. XFastRAM is a stand alone utility now. Also, XFastRAM is much more than a 32bit 4GB RAM limitation extender. It's in fact a RAM disk on steroid, valid for both 32 and 64bit system. It can do the following:
1- "Recycle" unused memory beyond 4GB on a 32bit OS into a RAM disk. A RAM disk of up to 32GB can be created on a 32bit OS.
2- RAM disk of up to 8GB on a 64bit OS. Asrock is working on extending that limit on 64bit OS.
3- Can choose any available driver letter to assign to your RAM disk
4- Use part of the RAM disk as a Readyboost drive to accelerate your magnetic boot drive!
5- Easy transfer of either or both the "user" and "system" temp file to RAM disk. No fooling around with Windows configuration.
6- Easy transfer of IE and Firefox cache to RAM disk. XFastRAM take care of everything straight from its interface.
7- Easy transfer of the page file to RAM disk. Again, directly from XFastRAM interface.
8- Possibility to save the RAM disk to hard drive before shutting the PC down.
It's fast (10 000MB/s with CrystalDiskMark on a 2500K @ 4.7 and 8GB of 1866 RAM) , it's free, it's amazingly flexible and can both accelerate your PC and prevent premature wear on your SSD by redirecting a lots of small writes to the temp folders and web cache! You can apparently gain 5X performance in some Photoshop operations when you configure it so use the RAM disk as the temp folder! Reply
bji - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkDon't intelligently designed modern operating systems use as much unused RAM as is available as filesystem cache? I know Linux does, I would expect Windows 7 does as well. In which case, I have to wonder what the value of a RAM disk except to make your persisted data completely volatile and lost on a power outage.
Turning the unusable RAM beyond 4 GB into a RAM disk when a 32 bit operating system is in use is the only marginally useful feature that you mentioned, but you have to be stuck with a 32 bit OS for that to be of any value.
Using a RAM disk comes at the cost of vastly increased complexity for managing persisted files (having to copy things from RAM disk to persistent storage before shutting down) and vastly increased risk of loss of data on unexpected power outage. All of the RAM disk useability features in the world won't help with those issues. Reply
Zoomer - Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - linkTemp, cache or scratch files would be good uses of a ramdisk. Other than that, there's really no point. Reply
kstan12 - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linki would *love* to read a review of ivy bridge that doesn't include an engineering sample. my i7-3770k seems to want a lot more voltage @ 4.7 than what i see in reviews online. i know one might clock higher than another but it seems these ES samples use less voltage. am i wrong here?
and where did you get the updated bios for the asus p8z77-v pro? i can only download 0906. :-) Reply
IanCutress - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkHi Kstan12,
My ES is stepping 9, which is identical to retail. It's all about the luck of the silicon at the end of the day.
Ian Reply
kstan12 - Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - linkoh ok, so you would just compare the stepping, thanks! maybe i'm not so good at overclocking too.
love reading your articles...you explain things quite well, good work! Reply
vegemeister - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkUnless you bought it retail, they could have easily given you a cherry-picked chip. There is a lot of variation in semiconductor manufacturing, even on the same stepping. Reply
Zoomer - Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - linkIf that's the results from a cherry picked chip, there would be a very compelling reason to choose SB over IVB for overclockers. Reply
JSt0rm01 - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkBut I feel like the release schedule has slowed way way way down. We need amd to step back up to the plate. We need more competition. I have been waiting on the new xeon parts for what seems like forever.
Also, after being a member of the anandtech forums for 10 years I was permanently banned by the moderators there because they wanted to censor a website (ffdt.info) that had conversation that was critical of their moderation. I find that the free flow of all information on the internet is critical. For a tech website such as this to limit the flow of information is offensive the core of these beliefs and its all because certain people in positions of illusory power deem that information detrimental to their positions. Reply
bji - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkTo your first point, x86 development HAS slowed way down and the trend will continue. With consumer computer usage turning more to cell phones and tablets, the market for faster x86 parts can no longer sustain the billions of dollars of R&D necessary to advance x86 state of the art. Intel is probably in the process of reducing their x86 R&D budgets in anticipation of this.
This will not change, even if AMD makes a comeback. I have predicted in the past that the fastest x86 part ever to be produced will be no faster than 50% faster than the current fastest Ivy Bridge. I stand by that prediction.
Sadly, the heady days of rapid advances in x86 tech are over, as anyone who witnessed the early/mid 2000's and can compare them to now will testify to. Reply
JSt0rm01 - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkIts unfortunate for power users. I will probably end up with a 2010 6-core mac pro to replace my aging 2006 macpro (please no anti-apple I use certain software and my industry is almost 100% apple I also have been building my own pcs since 1998) but what comes after that? I've already held this macpro for longer then I've had any computer. I guess what comes next? Will arm processors in 15 years be monsters of computational power?
Also, after being a member of the anandtech forums for 10 years I was permanently banned by the moderators there because they wanted to censor a website (ffdt.info) that had conversation that was critical of their moderation. I find that the free flow of all information on the internet is critical. For a tech website such as this to limit the flow of information is offensive the core of these beliefs and its all because certain people in positions of illusory power deem that information detrimental to their positions. Reply
ggathagan - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkYeah, we got your rant the 1st time around and didn't care about it then, either. Reply
JSt0rm01 - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkIf you don't have anything to add to the conversation then maybe you should stfu. Its a perfectly fine place to discuss the slowing release schedules of desktop hardware and I don't think you, as a random internet name, are in any position to say what others care or don't care about. You aren't special.
Also, after being a member of the anandtech forums for 10 years I was permanently banned by the moderators there because they wanted to censor a website (ffdt.info) that had conversation that was critical of their moderation. I find that the free flow of all information on the internet is critical. For a tech website such as this to limit the flow of information is offensive the core of these beliefs and its all because certain people in positions of illusory power deem that information detrimental to their positions. Reply
bji - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkI think he was referring to the 'signature' that you are putting after every post. You know, the stuff after the dashes. With all respect, if you are going to put that in every post you're going to have to expect some flak from people who don't like when others try to make a statement. Not saying that I have a problem with it, but there are people who get pissed off about every little thing ... Reply
JSt0rm01 - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkwell then let him be pissed. Thats my sig and if he wants to see it less then he shouldnt be responding to me.
Also, after being a member of the anandtech forums for 10 years I was permanently banned by the moderators there because they wanted to censor a website (ffdt.info) that had conversation that was critical of their moderation. I find that the free flow of all information on the internet is critical. For a tech website such as this to limit the flow of information is offensive the core of these beliefs and its all because certain people in positions of illusory power deem that information detrimental to their positions. Reply
Paapaa125 - Friday, May 11, 2012 - linkI don't understand why this site even accepts such a long sig. Stupid. Reply
smalM - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkBlack connectors on black boards - I really hate it.
Where are the boards for grown-ups? Reply
TGressus - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkNot black enough if you ask me. Caps could be all Hi-c, silk screening ever single component should just stop, the branding could be black and UV reactive.
Worst is all that silver metal that connects the chips/sockets. Black that! Reply
embeddedbill - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkThunderbolt is curiously missing, more than a year after the apple intro. Some compelling features if price and vendor support don't drive you mad. Time can solve both those problems, I'm just not sure how flexible the implementation will be in a Windows environment, i.e. hot plug of performance hardware, and discrete video card integration of its display port out with the TB pcie lanes.
Scarce details exist which makes me wonder if this tech will eventually wind up as overpriced fringe apple only, read FireWire! Reply
kenyee - Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - linkProbably something a bit too bleeding edge for you guys, but Gigabyte has apparently figured out how to make it painless for setting up a Hackintosh w/ their UEFI BIOS:
http://teksyndicate.com/news/2012/04/24/best-mothe... Reply
Zoomer - Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - linkHmm, that might be the reason for their weird phy choices. Reply
hasseb64 - Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - linkMy last build was with a Z68 ATX MB, such a build will never happen again in my house. Next update will have Micro-ATX or maybe even a Mini-ATX.
During my 15 years of computer building I have never used more than 1 GPU
In next computer I will probably not use any more expansion, today I have a old SB card installed.
And 2 slots for memory will do too (2x8 GB)
All HDDs are in separate WHS2011 box
ATX feels more and more like a thing of the past, these Taiwan makers are holding on as it seems but the future for them are to deliver smaller packages = less money. Reply
ggathagan - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkFor the vast majority of folks, you are correct, and the board manufacturers are also catering to that market.
There are, however, plenty of people that *do* have multi-GPU systems.
Further, there are more uses for PCIe than just GPU's; RAID controllers, 10GbE NIC's, and high end sound cards, to name a few. Reply
Zoomer - Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - linkTo be honest, with GPUs these days, 7 slots seem to be not enough. 2 slots are needed for the GPU, 3 for semi-decent cooling, particularly for these darn open air coolers manufacturers like to use for some reason. Reply
Sysiphus - Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - linkIs it possible to control 3pin fans on this boards? I didnt see a option and the asus board has only 4pins. Chassisfans are normally 3pinned. Reply
kstan12 - Wednesday, May 09, 2012 - linki own the asus p8z77-v pro. i have plugged my rear chassis & side panel fans into the 4 pin connectors on the mobo and i can control them with fan expert 2.
i bought a few of these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8... Reply
Zoomer - Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - linkCan they be controlled via speedfan? Reply
mcquade181 - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkYou can plug 3 pin fans into 4 pin MB connectors. Reply
ggathagan - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkUnder the "ASRock Z77 Extreme4 - Overview" section you mention XFast USB twice.
The second time should be XFast RAM
Under the "Visual Inspection" section for the MSI Z77A-GD65:
"Underneath this are the eight SATA ports - two SATA 6 Gbps from the PCH, four SATA 6 Gbps also from the PCH, and another two SATA 6 Gbps from an ASMedia controller."
I believe it should be "four SATA 3 Gbps also from the PCH...".
Under "Updates to our Testing Methodology"
"Also with experience allows us to pick tests ..."
Should be "Also, experience allows us to pick tests ..."
Under the conclusion section for the ASRock Z77 Exteme4:
"The XFast LAN software also shows superior performance in incompressible transfers or real-world transfers compared to standard USB throughput."
Should be "XFast USB software..."
All that aside, great review.
I appreciate the effort you and the rest of the Anandtech staff put in to improving your test processes.
I especially appreciate this multi-board approach that highlights the key differences across a series of boards that use the same chipset.
It certainly helps when making purchasing decisions. Reply
Nickel020 - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkYou say in the conclusion that you gain voltage read points by going withe MSI over the Gigabyte - the Gigabyte though does in fact also have voltage read points, just a less convenient implementation
As for the review: I realize that there are time constraints and you can't do one of the in-depth reviews that we sometimes got in the past, but I would like to see a more convenient user oriented layout, e.g. tables comparing the features of the boards, a table comparing the OC results etc. The way the review is structures i have to take a look at every board seperately, take notes and then compare them. Also some more comments on how the tested models compare to other models of the same manufacturers would be nice. Doesn't take much time, but greatly helps someone shopping around for a board.
Lastly, I'm highly skeptical of the software voltage readings but I know that many people do take such software readings as absolute truth, not realizing their potential flaws. You seem reasonably skeptical as well, and this is something I think should be mentioned in the review to prevent misunderstandings. Reply
FozzyofAus - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkHi guys,
Any change you could review the:
AsRock z77 Professional-M
In addition to the previously requested:
AsRock z77 Extreme4-m
Thanks in advance,
Michael. Reply
drbuzbee - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkThe Lan read and write sequential speeds are labeled MBytes ps but undoubtedly are reported in Mbits ps. Reply
millisec - Thursday, May 10, 2012 - linkThe Gigabyte UD3 is a nice board but it's a little annoying that's the board GB keeps sending out for reviews because of the $160 price mark. For $29 more you get so much more in the UD5 with Realtek audio, dual lan with Intel/Atheros, PCI 3.0 X4 slot, more sata 3 ports and second Marvell raid controller. The extra $29 buys a lot vs. the UD3 and in IMO is a much better value. Just hoping the UD5 arriving today does not have the same problems with the G.Skill Ripjaws X 2400 kit Anand had. Won't be a happy camper... Reply
Zoomer - Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - link$29 for extra sata ports = pass. ;) Reply
embeddedbill - Friday, May 11, 2012 - linkHi Ian, any chance you will have an update on this board? Reply
embeddedbill - Friday, May 11, 2012 - linkWhat... Did that take about 3 minutes from this question to Anands article? Reply
smalM - Friday, May 11, 2012 - linkBlack connectors, video ports, PS/2 - the first manufacturer who omits all that nonsense will get my money. Reply
KivBlue - Friday, May 11, 2012 - linkGigabyte has gone cheap for sure, I have compared the specs for both on-board audio chips and Realtek clearly has more feature sets. Plus VIA interface looks hideous. My current system's motherboard is Gigabyte and while they have improved things with UEFI, the feature set they have in it is pretty much the same as the old BIOS, ASUS clearly has a more comprehensive UEFI in that regard, I would go with ASUS motherboard in the future as I'm no longer a novice and someone who wants to take full control of a system. Reply
bobster1 - Sunday, May 13, 2012 - linkI've been debugging crashes at stock and overclock for a few days and finally seem to have found the cause, and thought it was worth mentioning here as I didn't see anything about it in the article.
I was finding my 7970 crossfire/UD3h/3770k setup was locking up frequently in games like the Witcher 2 - the system would freeze and had to be turned off and on again. I discovered by accident that the games became stable if I had prime95 running in the background, and eventually concluded that it must have something to do with the voltages at lighter loads. When I bumped up the voltage to 1.25v in the BIOS (using the static setting, rather than dynamic voltage), it seems to have solved the problem. I'm guessing this is due to Ivy Bridge taking responsibility for pci-e; it's rather unfortunate as it means I can't let the cpu use a lower voltage in an idle state without it rendering the system unstable when rendering 3d. Reply
mikeyd55 - Tuesday, June 19, 2012 - linkHi,
First, thank you for addressing this important benchmark!
Your article notes that POST times can be improved by disabling non essential controllers.
It would be helpful to know, with the minimum controllers enabled to support a system built on either the PRO or DELUXE (Asus) boards, with: one NIC enabled in OS (only?), boot from one SSD and/or one optical drive connected to Z77 chipset ports (no third party storage controller needed), USB disabled on boot, but enabled in OS (if possible as with certain Intel boards?), and any Wireless option disabled, what could be expected.
Conditioned - Wednesday, June 20, 2012 - linkSo how was dpc measured? If you disable intel-c state and all other powersaving features it makes an absolutely huge difference in dpc. Reply
bojaka - Thursday, June 28, 2012 - linkHi,
On Gigabyte's homepage it says:
4 x 1.5V DDR3 DIMM sockets supporting up to 32 GB of system memory
regarding supported/recommended memory for this mainboard...
How come 1.65V memory is used and what are the (possible) consequences?
Should 1.5 or 1.65V memory be used?
Best regards // BoJaKa Reply
Neoprimal - Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - linkBuilders with more than a keyboard and mouse may have some issues with the UD3H. I recently got one because of some good reviews I read and the price/value of the board and I was on the cusp of exchanging it for something else because the board was just so unfriendly re: the VIA USB 3 ports.
You need to populate the Intel ones before the VIA ones - not an issue. But the second you start populating the VIA ones you stand to get pretty frustrated. Each BIOS revision seems to fix the problem little by little (the saving grace thus far).
The board also doesn't seem to like Sandforce. I am hearing Everest 2 is giving some folks problems as well. After the long term, I had a Solid 3 that kept causing issues. Granted, most folks would say that this is because the Solid 3 is simply a 'crappy SSD', but it did work on other systems so crappy or not there's something to be said about the pairing of it and the UD3H.
The VIA audio didn't play well with my G930 headset. It would literally keep dropping out whenever I reboot and what this in turn did was set the G930 as default...that got annoying fast as I'd have to set the VIA back to default every, single, time. My fix was to unplug the USB key for the G930, a less than elegant response.
Before unscrewing and repackaging the board for return to Newegg since everyone was telling me it was defective, I decided to try one more thing (based on how well things seemed to work when my G19 was on the front USB 2 port); I purchased a USB 2 bracket (4 port) and attached it to the 2 USB headers I had left. I then plugged my 2 hubs (housing my printer, gamepad, flash drives, etc) on the USB 2 ports, put my G19 keyboard on a VIA USB 3 port (as these are the only ports that work 100% pre-boot) and put my 2 USB 3 hard drives on the Intel USB 3 ports where I pretty much leave them. This is the only way I have been able to run the board stable.
It was a lot to go through but things now work. If this were my first board I'd have been in trouble. Initially you don't experience the issues. It's when you move beyond a keyboard and mouse that you start seeing problems.
I wish reviewers did more than just stuck a keyboard and mouse on these boards. I get that the review process can be grueling but most people nowadays have more than a KB and Mouse and a review should put a board through more paces than just overclocking. These manufacturers put so much into 'tweaking' the boards for OCing they are getting lazy with the rest of stuff. It seems a lot of boards experience USB problems, despite the various chips they use.
I don't know if I'll ever use all of the onboard ports, I know that I don't DARE change anything, lest I go back to the reboots and crashes that occurred before I found my fix. Reply
xs7v3n - Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - linkSo i see almost everyone here is dealing with the slow post time.
Most of the time my post time is around 8 seconds (sometimes its around 4 seconds), while Dr. Debug lcd on mobo is showing a "99" post then it loads up the windows 7 loading screen (but sometimes after the post a blank screen with that "_" [underscore] appearance like when u open cmd which takes like at least 8 seconds also).. I have a Corsair Force GT 240gb and i want to get the most speed out of this system on boot up. Reply
xs7v3n - Tuesday, August 07, 2012 - linkActually it wasn't 8sec it was more like 24seconds LOL and so sometimes its 8 seconds... Why is that taking that post so long to disappear? Reply
Raikku - Wednesday, September 05, 2012 - linkWhy I don't have that auto-oc option in my Ext4's bios/oc-tweaker screen? Reply
Nanology - Monday, September 17, 2012 - linkGreat review, it's cleared up a lot for me.
It's been around 5yrs since I have updated my gaming rig.
I would like to be able to run a variety of games at med. settings and also stream games!
Also use a lot of Adobe products, video editing etc, and some 3d level design, but nothing to crazy!
Budget upgrade:
Intel i5-3570k
G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB DDR3 2133
Can't decide on one of these motherboards...
I currently have a CM Gemini II LGA 775 heat sink, which the ASRock board supports = saves money!
Do all these boards support a LGA 775 heat sink?
I was looking at the ASRock z77 pro4 for around $109, but really like the ASRock ex4
The 555 is nice and I would actually use it.
Can someone please help me sway my decision?!?!??!?!?!? Reply
jonjonjonj - Saturday, November 17, 2012 - linkim seriously thinking about thie asrock extreme4 but the 2 PCI slots bother me. PCI-e came out in 2004. its 2012 time to ditch the PCI slots. if your getting a Z77 board and still use a PCI card its either time to upgrade that card or since you insist on using a 10 year old card stick with your old board. Reply


text:
Gigabyte H77N-WiFi Review – First Look at Ivy Bridge with mITXby Ian Cutress on 11/6/2012 12:00 PM EST
- Posted in
- Gigabyte
- Motherboards
- mITX
52 Comments
Back to Article
457R4LDR34DKN07 - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkZotac Z77 A-E is vastly superior. It is the only mITX Z77 that has a mSATA. You could even remove the wifi/bt module and put in a mpci-e tv tuner and use the antenna. Reply
K-thiraband-com - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkThe ASRock Z77E-ITX also has mSATA.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8... Reply
RicardoNeuer - Thursday, November 08, 2012 - linkjust as Eddie implied I'm startled that some one can earn $9332 in a few weeks on the internet. have you seen this(Click on menu Home more information)
http://goo.gl/lbKGT Reply
cjs150 - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkI have the ASrock z77 E-ITX which is a lovely mini itx board and has a MSata on the back. Admittedly only SATA2 (like all MSata sockets at moment).
Go for the samsung green low profile memory (fantastic overclocking potential) and there is no need to worry about CPU coolers interfering with memory heat spreaders.
What I would really like is for MB makers to put the ATX socket at right angles to the board, it would make cable management much easier, and that is always a problem in Mini ITX cases.
The Gigabyte board is a lot cheaper than my ASrock board, but I would not change it. Reply
philipma1957 - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkthere are 3 itx mobos and I own 2 of them I have the truly great ASrockz77 E-ITX with a msata under the board I have a crucial 256gb in it.
I also own an intel BoxDH77DF
Which allows this:
1 x PCI Express Full-/Half-Mini Card slot with support for mSATA .
my build has a crucial msata in it also the 256gb size.
frankly I won't buy anyboard that does not have a msata option/
looking at this board you may be able to run a msata instead of the wifi.
frankly if you go itx msata is a godsend for space and wire management Reply
PEJUman - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkI have the asus H77 ITX, with 3770 + 2 x 2.5" SSDs + 2 x 3.5" Velociraptors with icepack. all inside a antec ISK 65, which is powered with 150W dell power brick to get around the 65 limit.
I did have to modify the ISK removable frame brace to mount the 2 x 3.5" velociraptors, but there is enough airflow with 2 x 80mm + some clever ducting using a thin piece of flexible plastic to keep everything cool under load (prime + crystal diskmark): 85 C CPU & 45 C on raptors.
it's it very tight, but that is half of the fun on building PCs;
where is the challange on building mini HTPC with mSATA hehehe =P.
The reason I picked the asus board is for the 6 SATAs, when it becomes obsolete, it would serve a a power efficient, cost efective file server. Reply
Samus - Wednesday, November 07, 2012 - linkI think most people would prefer an Asus, Gigabyte, Asrock, etc over a Zotac. The only reason to ever buy Zotac products in the past was for the nVidia ION options they provided when nobody else did. These days, Zotac is less innovative and quality/support have always been lacking, so why would you even consider them when there are higher quality, similarly priced competing products? Reply
rafa333 - Friday, December 07, 2012 - linkyou are sow dirty ass Reply
abrogan - Friday, December 07, 2012 - linkThe Zotac board uses thin steel "threads" to mount the wifi antennas. This is a very poor design. After receiving one already broken in the box, and after examining the proper way to do it (the gigabyte uses a folded plate), I won't purchase a Zotac again. Reply
GoodBytes - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkOn the POST performance table, I don't understand whats the difference between stripped and default. Can someone please explain it to me? I can't seam to find any info on this on the review. Thanks. Reply
Senti - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkDefault is teh default and stripped is after manually turning off unused features like network boot and various additional controllers boot roms that are needed only if you intent to boot from those devices. Reply
GoodBytes - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkAh Thanks,
To be clear, these values are still with a dedicated graphic card, right? cause I know those add time to the POST process. Reply
IanCutress - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkYes, these post times are with a GPU installed. Reply
dishayu - Wednesday, November 07, 2012 - linkHey Ian, you mention "four SATA 4 Gbps" ports for H77 chipset on the first page. I'm assuming that's a typo and Intel haven't actually implemented a non-standard 4Gbps port? Reply
Dug - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkAll of your complaints sound like you aren't a typical mITX user. You are comparing against ATX boards? Why?
Of course you can't put giant heatsinks on this, and why would you when you are testing an i3-3225 and its designed to go in a case that's 7". You couldn't anyway with 99% if mITX cases out there.
Test stability and reliability, how well the wireless works, ethernet, USB, and SATA performance.
Why do we need to see a benchmark of an i3225 against and Asus P9X79 Pro with an i7-3960X? This is a motherboard review, not a cpu review.
And what is with the game benchmarks? What video card did you use? Don't tell me you used a video card that's 3 times longer than the motherboard.
Sorry but this doesn't seem like a review for the intended audience of mITX. Reply
crimson117 - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkAfter all the notes about the odd component positioning and theories about how it might complicate the installation, he doesn't even try installing it in a real mITX case... Reply
Armourcore9brker - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkI agree with this.
About the complaints about component placement. That's dictated by the Intel socket pinout. See here: http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/...
Starting on page 94.
Essentially the entire pinout shows where components would be placed. There isn't the room like on ATX boards to route the traces to other parts and have it be all neat.
What Asus and EVGA had to do was to add more layers to the board to get the traces to not interfere with the PCIe signals. That in turn will increase cost. Reply
IanCutress - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkThen the option becomes to just do it, or do it right. Different motherboard manufacturers have different mandates when it comes to this, and it shows in the cost.
Regarding benchmarks, I have these numbers in the database, and thus it is interesting to see the difference between the two. I'd rather have an excess of data points than a limited field of view. As for using a high end video card, the whole point of a motherboard review is to test the limits - make the motherboard be the limiting factor in all testing as much as possible. There are now plenty of cases that deal with long discrete GPUs so that is not an argument against using one, and when going around a large LAN event it is interesting to see a double digit percentage of mITX builds around a powerful GPU. Similarly these users are also using cases that can accommodate larger heatsinks.
"Sorry but this doesn't seem like a review for the intended audience of mITX." - I feel the market for mITX is larger than you think. This Gigabyte board was built at the request of a system integrator in Asia, who bought 10000+ units for a specific need. The result of spending the time and effort made Gigabyte release the product to the general market. What may have been the plan for that system integrator may not be the plan for users - particularly when it comes to that 4-pin CPU power placement. Reply
EnzoFX - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkI agree that mITX is flexible and can accommodate powerful gaming rigs. However I'd say that is the minority. My concern with my mITX builds is always a balance of feature set. Stability. mITX to me is taking the, as Anand calls it "device-ification" of computers into my own hands. They go in smaller cases, whose components won't be changed all that often, so stability and build quality is actually even more important to me. The other thing is heat, while this is characteristic of cases and component selection, I think it would help us greatly if we got these mITX boards tested in practical use cases as well.
My personal annoyance is seeing 500W+ PSU's with mITX builds that don't go anywhere near even half that wattage.
The mITX reviewing can use a boost here. Usually I find myself looking for reviews of what do become widely recommended boards. Test the top contenders, I'm always hearing about that ASRock ITX board, that's the #1 recommended board I see recommended in forums. Gigabyte is a brand I rely on, so I welcome their reviews, so thanks. Reply
Termie - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkIan - thanks for this review. I built up a system using AsRock's z77 ITX board, and was also puzzled by the socket placement, but ultimately not everything will be as neat as on a bigger board because there just isn't as much board edge space available. No matter what, at least one power cable will be stretched inelegantly across the board.
A few comments:
(1) your OCCT load numbers with the 7970 appear to be incorrect - perhaps this was actually running on the internal HD4000, judging by the wattage.
(2) testing power consumption on a platinum PSU is a bit unrealistic, as there are no SFX platinum PSUs available, as far as I know, and while some ITX builds go into cases, like the Prodigy, that can hold an ATX PSU, the use of Platinum PSUs even in these builds is unlikely due to cost. Reply
IanCutress - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - link(1) The 15 W difference between OCCT load on IGP vs. 7970 seems alright to me. As the power goes up, the efficiency should rise, so for a 55W CPU having OCCT go on full and have a system load of 65W could be a little odd, depending on how OCCT is actually loading up the pipeline.
(2) My main reason for testing with a 500W Platinum is that it is the lowest wattage PSU I have in, and I plan on putting a mITX board with that PSU into a Prodigy for my own usage. There are enough users out there willing to consider a SFF build for transportation but have enough horsepower to cart to events. Stick in a 3770K + 680 GPU (or 7970, 7870), and 500W doesn't seem too far fetched. Perhaps the platinum part does a little, but it does make our power readings a little closer to the true value, especially as I run on 240V which gives a higher efficiency.
Thanks for your comments :) Reply
Termie - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkThank YOU for your review.
You know, I think I was confused by the power consumption graphs because you switched the order of OCCT and Metro2033 in the IGP and HD7970 tests. Now that you explained it, I see that it makes sense. Reply
HappyCracker - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkI own the Z77 version of this board and it slid into my ISK nicely and seems to be the same basic layout as the Intel DH57JG it replaced.
Here's what's confusing about this review. It's a review of the board, but in the computation and gaming benchmarks, is the only instance of a Core i3. I would probably like to see the same processor in each of those boards to show how they'd stack up for a potential buyer. Otherwise, what I see here, is a comparison of an i3 against i5s and i7s, which should belong in a CPU review and not a board review.
Or did I miss the methodology altogether? Reply
IanCutress - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkOur future Z77 mITX testing will be on the i3, but the main comparison point here in the CPU tests is the A10 which is at a similar price point. Stay tuned for the other mITX reviews :)
Ian Reply
Scotttnz - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkI bought this board for my home esxi server. I chose this one due to it's reasonable price and for the dual on board NICs to give me internal and external connectivity for my firewall/ UTM vm. Esxi 5.1 installed fine to a micro USB key, and everything works well without any fiddling around injecting drivers etc. this leaves the pic-e slot free to add a RAID card or what ever. Reply
capeconsultant - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkI am interested in building a mac mini type computer. Small, quiet and fast. Any ideas? Thanks! Reply
Gigaplex - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkYou're not going to get as small as a Mac Mini using mini-ITX. The Mini uses laptop grade parts with a custom motherboard designed around the case. If you want something Mini-like, just put Windows on the Mac Mini, or you're going to have to settle for the larger, more powerful mini-ITX systems - something like the Antec ISK 110 VESA is a good starting point if you're aiming for as small as you can get.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6192/antec-isk-110-v... Reply
capeconsultant - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkThank you! I am this close to Windows on a mini, just exploring last minute ideas. Thanks for the advice. I am going to Google that case now just to learn. I have researched heavily the mac mini and think that will be prefect for me. Reply
MadMan007 - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkThe Z77 version is only $10 more on Newegg, so I don't see a reason not to get the Z77. At the very least it gives higher memory speed options which can help with the CPU integrated graphics. Reply
EnzoFX - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkThis has been intel's standard for like 3 years. People should stop pointing it out as strange, and cases/heatsinks can easily take it into account. Reply
extide - Tuesday, November 06, 2012 - linkSeems like it would be more appropriate than using a 7970 or 580 Reply
desiredusername145 - Wednesday, November 07, 2012 - linkC'mon Anandtech whats the point testing this with an i3???
Now I wasted time even opening this article, shame on you Reply
cjs150 - Wednesday, November 07, 2012 - link"C'mon Anandtech whats the point testing this with an i3???"
That is a bit harsh. I suspect lots of people will pair an i3 with a mini-itx board.
Personally I have an i7-3770T in my mini z77 board but lots of people would regard that as overkill (also runs a bit hot - I suspect the culprit is intel using cheap thermal paste on the IHS as widely reported). Reply
HappyCracker - Wednesday, November 07, 2012 - linkAgreed. Even a Clarkdale i3 will happily push 1080p content to a 1080p display with its integrated graphics and I think this is where a lot of users will position their ITX boxes. As long as you're not in a huge hurry, you can also encode video. It's all about positioning the right computer in the right spot. Reply
hasseb64 - Wednesday, November 07, 2012 - linkmITX boards are more and more intresting, but I want you as a reviewer to focus more on power consumption. Reply
Th-z - Wednesday, November 07, 2012 - linkIs there going to be a review on APU (FM2) with mITX? I'm also looking for a prebuilder that sells APU mITX system using small chassis with external power supply. Puget has them using Antec ISK 110 and 310 cases, but you can only customize them for Intel parts.
Last question, isn't it illogical to say "UEFI BIOS"? As UEFI is to replace BIOS, not an extension of BIOS, as "UEFI BIOS" would imply. The F in UEFI already stands for Firmware, so conceptually, it's like saying "Firmware BIOS". If wheel is to replace feet, we just need to call it wheel, not wheel feet. Reply
Urbanos - Wednesday, November 07, 2012 - linkyou didn't cover wireless! its a main feature of this mobo.
missing all networking bench's, also does it allow for teaming? and how well?
did you test the raid setup? will each controller see each other's array in the config utility?
chassis options? temperatures?
dual HDMI tests and examples? image quality?
don't mean to be a dick here, but anandtech has a much higher standard than this. Reply
klmccaughey - Wednesday, November 07, 2012 - linkWe need you to spot the flaws before we buy it Ian, so I see no problem with you being critical as you are always constructive.
Keep up the great reviews! I'm still waiting for my ITX HTPC killer board - they are all far to expensive. Reply
rwpritchett - Wednesday, November 07, 2012 - linkGood review Ian. I've been running with this motherboard for about a month now in an ISK 310-150. It's good to see someone review the H77 version rather than the Z77.
I'd like to add another gripe about the layout- the 24-pin power header. It's right on the top edge of the board. My case has fans on that side and the fan blades hit the clip on the power connector. If it was moved away from the edge just 2mm it would be in the clear (or better yet, it should be on the memory side of the motherboard like the Asus H77 ITX) . I had to forego a fan in that position for now, but I plan to add washers to slightly space a fan away from the 24-pin connector.
Another slight annoyance is that the BIOS refuses to see my SSD if the SATA is set to RAID. I don't know if it is specific to my model of SSD, a Crucial M4, or there is a bug that needs to be fixed. Reply
cjs150 - Thursday, November 08, 2012 - linkWould the 24 pin position work for you ?
I prefer the 24 pin to be at the edge of the board but at right angles to current position (ie not pointing straight up). Would be nice if someone would prefer a 90 degree 24 pin adapter Reply
Geraldo8022 - Wednesday, November 07, 2012 - linkI like the placement of the 24 pin power header. My E350 case has the external power button right where it interferes with the power header toward inside of front panel. Also I like testing with i3. I go for lowest power consumption. I use a picoPSU and would like to see these tested with that psu. For me it is a USB world. all I care about is HDTV, low power and USB3. If you want to overclock perhaps you should go with a bigger board. Reply
Pcosx - Wednesday, November 07, 2012 - linkWhy don't anybody makes a z77/h77 board with dual link dvi output? Is it so much more to make one? Reply
Dug - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkGood question, and it would be nice to know the limitations of video output on these motherboards with different connections. Reply
Znarkus - Thursday, November 08, 2012 - linkWhy present POST time with two decimal points, if there is a 1 second error margin? Reply
IanCutress - Friday, December 07, 2012 - linkResults from my stop watch. Error margin is a large overestimate of what it might be from human error, not hardware error. For each reading I take 3 measurements, and more often than not I get all three in the same 0.10 seconds.
Ian Reply
lwatcdr - Thursday, November 08, 2012 - linkI would love to know how well this is supported under Linux? No real need for Benchmarks just put Ubuntu, Mint, or Fedora on it and see if the Network, WiFi, Video, Sata, and USB all work.
Also Hackintosh compatibility would be nice but maybe too out their to be worth your time but would be very cool. Reply
mrgreenfur - Friday, November 09, 2012 - linkThe spec table shows z77 chipset, should be h77? Reply
dingetje - Wednesday, November 21, 2012 - linkplease include the EVGA Z77 Stinger Mini-ITX Motherboard in the upcoming article.
thanks Reply
lemmo - Tuesday, February 26, 2013 - linkThanks for the detailed review. Could you give an idea of what the audio benchmark actually means? Do those results indicate that the audio quality is good or bad?
A review of the Gigabyte B75 ITX board shows that the audio quality is poor, and the Gigabyte Z77 board not much better. They also use Rightmark Audio Analyser, but represent the results differently so there is no way to compare. Please can you give your audio test results in dB(A) so we can compare?
It would also be good to have a wider comparison of the power draw, say with the Z77 ITX boards you reviewed. Reply
raavan19raavan - Monday, April 15, 2013 - linkhave problems with the graphics card!! Works fine with the graphics BIOS settings at auto but does not work with BIOS settings with graphics set to PEG and changed the miscellaneous settings from Auto to Gen1,Gen3 but still didnt work. Tested it on different systems and it seems to work fine but does not work only on this mobo, the mobo itself is fine again. The graphics card is a HD6670 1GB DDR5. Reply
raavan19raavan - Monday, April 15, 2013 - linkThe system runs fine when the display cable is connected to IGP but when it is connected to graphics card with the above settings, the display is just black with the LED blinking and switches from ANALOG to HDMI continuously without displaying anything. Disabled the IGP too and still doesn't work. Booted the system with the IGP and tried to see if the Device Manager shows something but it only shows IGP but doesn't display anything saying that a driver is missing or any new hardware has been detected. Reply
raavan19raavan - Monday, April 15, 2013 - linkEven exchanged the graphics card assuming it was DOA but it apparently wasn't and would work fine on other system except on this motherboard. Reply

subset: commoncrawl


text:
HP EliteBook 8570w Notebook Review: The Other Side of the Coinby Dustin Sklavos on 12/18/2012 12:01 AM EST
- Posted in
- Systems
- Mobile Workstation
- Ivy Bridge
- Laptops
- FirePro
54 Comments
Back to Article
CobaltFire - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkBefore you have corrected the misinformation (Optimus on Quadro) pointed out in the last? Further, you have not addressed the very real concerns of your bias in these reviews as of yet. Reply
Maraque - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkYes, why? Personally, for me, his workstation reviews have lost a lot of credibility after his last farce of a review.
"Sir, you need to step away from the workstations, please, until you have been deemed not a threat." Reply
Dustin Sklavos - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkI didn't like the Precision M6700's design. I felt like the EliteBook 8760w I had reviewed was a better built workstation. I still do.
I can recognize that I was needlessly harsh about the M6700, though, and indeed folded information and feedback into this review.
You can accept progress and try to see a concerted effort to move forward, or you can continue harping. It's up to you. Reply
theeldest - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkThis review was better than the last but I still take issue with two points:
1. Aesthetics. It's OK to comment on it but you make it sound as if others should consider your opinion on this issue when purchasing. As you said above, you thought the 8760w was better built and that's what we need to hear. Quality of materials and build. But try to keep in mind that other people don't have the same appreciation for HPs design as you.
2. "Standard" keyboards. Why do you consider HPs the more 'standard' layout? The layout on the Dell is the same as they've been using in the Latitudes and Precisions since 2001. Literally more than 10 years.
HP on the other hand has switched during the EliteBook's short life. Interestingly, the first and second generation used the SAME keyboard layout as Dell. So I'd argue (and have evidence to support) that the current HPs are using a NON-standard layout.
This is why we have issue with these reviews. You're making sweeping statements that aren't backed up by fact and you're using these to support your position.
As soon as you do this, you lose credibility. This review was better than the last, but you've still got room for growth. Reply
CobaltFire - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkHave you addressed the lack of basic technical research regarding the Optimus system? This is critical in any informed discussion of these laptops.
Optimus with an 8 bit screen makes for great battery life, but you do not get that wonderful IPS screen. Note that HP does not bother even giving you this choice due to their design.
If you want IPS, FirePro, or HP you lose ~60% runtime. This would have taken almost no research to find out, and nowhere in any publications I have seen does it state that Optimus does not work with Quadro.
This site has always seemed to be about having accurate information, even if the reviews were a little behind. Your reviews, and your unwillingness to acknowledge the errors in a timely manner (as Anand has done many times) are not in keeping with this sites reputation.
This is a long time readers opinion. I do not typically comment because so many others do such a good job of covering what I may be interested in. Reply
ggathagan - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkWhat exactly are you asking for with regards to Optimus?
From your statement, I suspect that you are already aware of the fact that Optimus is not supported on Quadro cards, just as it's not supported on desktop systems.
What else is there, then, to say about the matter?
The article clearly states that the use of the 10-bit panel precludes the use of Optimus.
Lastly, since a Quadro card was not used in this laptop, I don't understand how the lack of Optimus support for Quadro is germane to this review. Reply
Goodstorybro - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkOptimus does work with Quadro cards - as demonstrated with Dells M4700 and W530 Thinkpads.
Personally, I think the hit on battery with using an IPS panel is too much. Most users will have an larger external monitor as their primary display to do real work, while the extended battery life will be much more useful on the road. Reply
solipsism - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkI don't quite get why these higher end notebooks aren't compared to MBPs running Windows. Are they not an option one might make if looking for a $1200 or higher notebook? Reply
bobdole1997 - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkFrom the review, the MBP does not have a workstation-class GPU. So it was not compared. Reply
solipsism - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkI did not see that mentioned. Thank you. Reply
darwinosx - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkToo bad the reviewer is wrong about that as all the people running Autocad on Macs will attest to. Reply
hexanerax - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkAutoCAD.... Talk 3D design software like Inventor, CATIA, Solidworks etc. Those packages aren't even available for OS X, are they now; so how would one expect Mac only users to know about such things.
Dell precision M6300 / FX1600 M - Still runs inventor 2013 / Revit Architecture 2013 perfectly well. And yes it is a 1920 x 1200 panel. Reply
joos2000 - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkAutCAD? That doesn't really need workstation grade hardware. If you wan't to faff about in autocad, any old computer will do. Reply
CadentOrange - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkSo why is the Samsung Series 7 included in the comparison? That laptop uses the nVidia GeForce 650M graphics chip which is the same as the Macbook Pro 15"? Reply
Dustin Sklavos - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkFor the same reason the Alienware M17x R4 is included: we don't have as many workstations up for review as I'd like, and I wanted a couple of baselines for what the consumer side is doing. Also, the 650M is a good demonstration of Optimus so you can see the kind of battery life you're losing by going with a system with a 10-bit display. Reply
joos2000 - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkIt also gave me a bit of insight on the driver differences between proper workstation grade GPU's and consumer grade GPU's as well as how an apple laptop will perform in workstation applications. Reply
Flunk - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkWorkstation-class GPUs are one of the biggest scams in the industry. All of the current "workstation" GPUs are exactly the same as a consumer GPU with slightly tweaked drivers. It's not even hard to modify the drivers if you feel like bothering (it's not worth it unless you're running autoCAD, maya, blender or 3DSMax). Reply
drfish - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkEveryone knows you buy "workstation" GPUs for technical support from your software provider more than any other reason. Reply
RandomUsername3245 - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkIt hasn't been possible to convert a Geforce to Quadro via a driver mod in YEARS. Get with the program!
It may be a scam, but the drivers *do* make a performance difference. Reply
Death666Angel - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkI'm pretty sure that quite a few software companies only give support for their products when you are running workstation graphics cards, otherwise they will just shrug and tell you to buy another graphics card. Reply
Kevin G - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkThere is little difference between the drivers on consumer level GPU's under OS X and the workstation class video card drivers under Windows. That is the key difference between workstation and consumer level GPU's: drivers. Take a look at the cross platform software and the software vendors do certify the OS X drivers.
Beyond that the other differences between consumer and workstation GPU's are often related to GPU compute. nVidia only offers full speed GPU compute on their Telsa cards and have even started to nerf the Quadro line up (though not as much as Geforce cards based upon the same GPU die).
I've been able to spot two other minor differences between consumer and workstation cards. The first is hardware based line anti-aliasing and 10 bit color support. Under OS X, both this AA technique and 10 bit color output are provided on consumer cards.
The last difference would be the cards themselves. Workstation cards due tend to have additional outputs (either DL-DVI or DP) and more on board memory for the GPU. For a laptop this isn't as critical but worth noting for desktop systems. Reply
ananduser - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkYou can add the fact that Win under bootcamp runs relatively poor compared to a native machine. You lose a good 25%(at least) on battery life and no optimus-type switching. The drivers are also generic and have an impact on the system's overall IOPS(due to drivers). All in all not a good machine at all. It's good for the Apple user that needs sporadic native windows access on his machine and that's just about it. Reply
damianrobertjones - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkPlease mention that you can purchase an extended BB09, CC09 or SR09 battery for this device. BB09 and CC09 providing the most battery life. Reply
damianrobertjones - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkP.s. Anyone planning on buying should really consider re-applying the thermal compound as the basic application isn't the best in the world. Reply
Flunk - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkThat is true of every notebook I've ever seen. Reply
ijozic - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkJust two points worthy of mention regarding the Dell..
First, it was first offered with the IPS screen, as well, but most (if not all?) were plagued by blue tint issues so they are no longer offered (I'm surprised if the HP doesn't have the same problem as I'd presume the screens are pretty much the same?). So, if a better stock of displays is obtained, they might be offered again.
Second, it seems to have a much better cooling system as it also offers the XM CPUs. Reply
Oskars Apša - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkWhy not review workstations with 3D models and drawings that are made by some interior and graphics designers, even architects?
I as a designer would see value if you had benchmarked programs like AutoCad, 3DS MAX and Corel draw with real life models, scenes and drawings.
I don't see value in primitive benchmarking that is made upon models that ar made by some benchmark "manufacturer". That might be good for game designers at most.
Also, screens of benchmarked 3D and other objects are a must. Reply
lx686x - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkSPECviewperf is pretty much a standard for workstation class GPU's so I don't see a problem here.
You need a benchamrk not some random scenes. Reply
Oskars Apša - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkI disagree. By look the SPEC provided models and scenes look like random leftover highscool projects. Models are primitive texture vise and the same can be said about models themselves.
The only good models are provided for Siemens, but that isn't the most used program by designers, or is it?
A standart made by some company for 6 year old console game development doesn't mean it is sufficient. Reply
lx686x - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkIt doesn't matter, if it scores lower in SPEC in will also have lower FPS in real programs as well.
If you know any other BENCHMARK then suggest it... Reply
Oskars Apša - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkIt matters a lot, none of these menchmarks represent use of 32 megapixel textures for instance?
And i'll repeat my suggestion, Anandtech has to use real world 3D interior and architectural scenes, with high res. textures. Reply
lx686x - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkAnd I'll also repeat again, it needs to be a benchmark where you can reproduce the exact same environment for all the platforms.
And you still haven't provided any suggestion of which benchmark/software to use.
And you bashed SPEC in your first post for not having textures (textures are only part of the story), it's geared towards 3D, and it does a good job of providing valid numbers for comparison. Reply
Oskars Apša - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - linkThe use of real life interiors and objects is my suggestion. Why is it so hard to fathom? :P
You are right in that sence. Those benchmarks may be good for industiral oil rig piping models, bet the problem is - no High res. textures are tested, they should.
If there is no such convinient test then Anand can try and make one if they see fit. Anandtech is a review site, not a hobby site that tries only standart tests.
So they have the obligation to upp the ante if they will continue to write workstation previews but calling them reviews. Really sad considering the work that is put in some gaming gear.
I'm a reader, and so are you - ask for more, this is not comunism ;) Reply
Grennum - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - linkMaking a benchmark like this is no simple task. SPEC is not perfect but it is a standard which is important because you can compare your own personal results to those of Anand's.
When I read a workstation review I am interested it's workstation 3D design and analysis/simulation capabilities, I could care less about textures.
To write a proper benchmark would require a very high competence with whatever software you are trying to benchmark. For example with Solidworks when you access the software via the API(which you would need for benchmarking) you get very different results than through the standard UI. You would need to account for that. Now in particular Solidworks has a built in benchmark which could be used. However a license of Solidworks is pretty expensive for a review site, and it would need to be kept up to date to be viable.
As for your comment about Siemens, Siemens owns the parasolid core, which is used by a huge number of 3D modelling programs. So its benchmark is very valid. Reply
Oskars Apša - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - linkIf you don't care about textures - good for you, I care. ;)
Review sites usually dwell on companies wanting them to review their gear, but why not arrange a sponsoreship from soft companies? I'm almost certain the reason is not that AnandTech couldn't arrange free softs but the inconsistant number of reviews of proffesional gear to justify such an agreement for the other side of the table.
Thanks for the info on Siemens, but the only somewhat popular program that uses its instructions is Solidworks, so... irrelivant for me. Reply
dwatterworth - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - linkA note on your request for high definition textures...I am an architect and do quite a bit of 3d modelling and rendering in a Autodesk Revit and 3DSmax. I am fortunate enough to work for an office that lets me build and maintain my own workstations along with others for power users in the office.
I have no idea why you would really need high res textures FPS figures. Conventional programs limit the texture previews in the viewports and only make use of the full image at time of render.
The 3d benchmarks provided DO give a very good idea of how the performance would scale. Maybe benchmarks don't give you the exact FPS of each program but it will provide solid comparisons between the hardware.
If you are concerned about how the hardware can handle such high textures at time of render it would really bring up the question why would you being rendering such scenes on a laptop? It would seem more effective to get a mid-level laptop for mobile/modeling and make use of a dedicated render node(s). Reply
Oskars Apša - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - linkA continuous pattern for multiple wooden panels is an example where i would use a high res texture (2x6m). Wery convinient in such and other cases.
Of course one can use continuous mirroring function, compress the textures into smaller ones, but that is not the remedy for me all the time.
Why a laptop? I employ myself and i spend weekennds on the country side, and often i have to render a few additonal frames at that time. For stable electricity feed i'd rather have a laptop with its own battery, and not a second stationary machine with a huge ups. Reply
Gunbuster - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkWhere is the value here? I have a M4700 on the way for $2025.03 (W/Shipping & Tax)
32% lower cost on the Dell and the only thing missing is the upgraded LCD but the HP will probably get the corner tint issue and you'll have to return it anyway.
Lets look at the config:
3rd Gen Intel Core i7-3740QM (2.7GHz, 6M cache, Upgradable to Intel vPro technology), Dell Mobile Precision MX700 ***BETTER***
16.0GB, DDR3-1600MHz SDRAM, 2 DIMM, Dell Mobile Precision ***BETTER***
Internal English Dual Point Backlit Keyboard, Latitude E
NVIDIA Quadro K2000M with 2GB GDDR3, Dell Mobile Precision M4700 ***BETTER***
750GB 2.5" 7200rpm Hard Drive, Dell Mobile Precision M4700/M6700
No USH, No Fingerprint Reader and No Contactless Smartcard Reader Mobile Precision M4700
15.6" UltraSharp FHD (1920x1080) Wide View Anti-Glare, Premium Panel Guarantee, Mobile Precision M4700
Windows 8 Pro, 64-bit, Latitude, OptiPlex, Precison, English
Dell Wireless 380 Bluetooth 4.0 LE Module, Dell Latitude E4/Mobile Precision
180W 3P, A/C Adapter, Mobile Precision M4700
6-Foot, 3-Pin Power Cord,Mobile Precision M4700, US
Slot Load DVD+/-RW Drive, Dell Mobile Precision
Integrated HD video webcam and noise reducing array microphones , Dell Mobile Precision M4700 ***You don't mention it at all even though it appears to be in your photos***
Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 802.11n 3x3 Half Mini-card, Dell Mobile Precision ***BETTER***
6-cell (65Wh) Primary Lithium Ion Battery, (2.8Ah) ExpressCharge Capable, Dell Mobile Precision M4700 Reply
blue_falcon - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkYou forgot to point out one more item that is ***BETTER***. The M4700 can use the same docking station that every E-Family Latitude can (for the past 4 generations). That way if you have to, you can use someone else's dock when visiting another building, or site. Reply
blue_falcon - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkAlso, you can drive 5 monitors (if you choose to) when docked. I think the Elitebook can only do four (or that is all that is supported). Reply
Stuka87 - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - link5 displays? The docks only have up to two outputs. I am technically running triple head as I have the laptop (M4600) open, and then dual Dell 2412M displays.
And as I said int he comments for the 6700, I love my precision, its a bit heavy but great otherwise. It works hard and does what I need. Reply
DanNeely - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkHas Dell issued a new, less capable dock? My E series dock has 1 each DVI, DP, and VGA ports; using both the sandy bridge IGP and the Quadro I can drive all 3 external outputs and my Latitude's built in LCD at the same time.
I'd like to try running a 4th external display from one of the laptop's video out's instead; but haven't managed to finagle a 4th monitor at the office. Reply
blue_falcon - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkThey have an Eport plus that has 2 DVI, 2 DP, and 1 VGA and has the legacy ports (if needed).
http://dell.to/UHZTE5 Reply
Kevin G - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkIs the DP port support v1.2 of the spec? If so, you may be able to daisy-chain some displays or use a DP MST hub. Unfortunately, I've only seen one monitor capable of DP chaining to date and MST hubs are AWOL but continually promised 'soon'. Reply
DanNeely - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkNo idea. Without a daisychainable (or a DP capable 2560x1440/1600) monitor; how would I check this? Reply
Goodstorybro - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkAgreed - with the heavy discounts from Dell and Lenovo, I don't see how the HP is attractive.
You can really get a pretty good system for the price if you do some of the upgrades yourself. I got my build at under $2100 shipped:
Thinkpad W530 with : 3820qm i7, K2000m Quadro, 32gb RAM, 15.6 FHD, 240gb SSD + 750GB 7200 HDD, WP8, fingerprint reader, ultimate N wifi, 2yr accidental coverage
Doesn't get too much better than that in the 15.6" workstation market. Reply
deamon0 - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkI have seen a couple examples and a lot of stories that HP manufactured laptops are not as reliable as Lenovo or Toshiba. The HP's heating issue seems to be common among many laptops. I thinks this laptop is not worth the price at all!
I think we have better options from other better brands for a better price.
By the way it'd be much interesting read if you could review the Toshiba Qosmio X875-Q7380 laptop. There aren't any reviews of it elsewhere. Reply
Hrel - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkCan you guys please review this Lenovo?
Honestly looks like the perfect combination of features for a balanced gaming rig at a VERY fair price from a company that, based on every time I've worked with their business offerings, has a flawless record of reliability. Reply
joos2000 - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkWith that PGU it's hardly suitable for workstation duties. Reply
Hrel - Thursday, January 17, 2013 - linkyeah, that consumer laptop is totally designed for that. *sarcasm
I have no interest in work station duties. Reply
twtech - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkThey're bad enough on 17" notebooks. I would not buy this for that reason alone. Reply
Araemo - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkActually, I find the one on my Latitude E6520 very useful. And I originally thought the offset to the keyboard would be odd and annoying.. except that my desktop keyboard has the same offset compared to my desktop monitor, so it's actually fairly natural for me. Reply
SteveLord - Tuesday, December 18, 2012 - linkComments following a laptop review that aren't filled with trolls going "omg it's not 1080p resolution so it's automatically garbage!"
Oh yeah, it's a Dreamcolor config........ Reply
Laststop311 - Wednesday, December 19, 2012 - linkThis is my favorite of all displays out right now even like more then amoled. Why is LG not putting dreamcolor displays on their phones? And selling dreamcolor phone displays to other smartphone manufacturers. Reply


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