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Samsung Laptops Bricked by Booting Linux Using UEFIby Jarred Walton on 1/30/2013 2:20 PM EST
42 Comments
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neothe0ne - Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - linkCheck out Notebookreview's Samsung forum... it's well known that UEFI is asking for trouble with Samsung. Reply
Kevin G - Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - linkFrom the sound of it, this bug does make the machines unusable but not dead dead. It sounds like it can be repaired with a disk swap. The one catch to potentially unbrick these laptops is that you either need another device to boot off of or move the disk to another system.
On oddity about Windows and some EFI implementations is that they expect the boot loader to be in a specific place as well as a specific boot loader. Loaders like rEFInd can be used but may require some tweaking to get it work. Similarly, if you need to go back the Windows boot process will check the boot loader and undo the tweaking you've done with rEFInd.
http://www.zdnet.com/the-refind-boot-loader-for-ue... Reply
MrSpadge - Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - linkSo the problem is a messed-up boat loader, or more precisely one that Samsungs UEFI doesn't expect? In this case booting a live-Linux from USB or optical drive wouldn't hurt the system, right? Reply
MrSpadge - Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - link... in this case it should read "... installing linux", not "... booting linux". Reply
RealBeast - Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - linkHopefully that is the case, as many folks boot into Linux based utilities all the time on Windows machines to fix all the problems. Reply
bim27142 - Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - linkIt's probably just for some specific models as I have a 535U3C (AMD version), I have tried Knoppix live cd (USB in fact) and thank goodness it wasn't bricked...
Oh... I think mine's not UEFI... so that probably makes some difference... Reply
lord_beavis - Thursday, January 31, 2013 - linkJust run Linux and those problems go away. Reply
MrSpadge - Thursday, January 31, 2013 - link.. only to be superseded by a whole bunch of other problems, of course ;/ Reply
powerarmour - Thursday, January 31, 2013 - linkYeah sure, like reliability, stability, performance and scalability Reply
Notmyusualid - Saturday, February 02, 2013 - link^ I'll definitely second this comment. Reply
Sivar - Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - linkAnother winner from Samsung. Reply
steven75 - Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - linkSounds about right. Samsung has never been known for their software prowess. Reply
powerarmour - Thursday, January 31, 2013 - linkSamsung have never been great with their Linux support either, it's about time they took the fact that maybe some people don't want to run Windows seriously. Reply
neothe0ne - Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - linkHow so? You can't install Windows in UEFI on these laptops either Reply
techguy378 - Thursday, January 31, 2013 - linkUm, why not? Reply
powerarmour - Thursday, January 31, 2013 - linkBecause their implementation of UEFI is essentially borked, potential for corrupt hardware shouldn't be the fault of an operating system. Reply
gevorg - Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - linkUEFI + Windows 8 = best PC evar! Reply
Beenthere - Wednesday, January 30, 2013 - linkFamous worlds from Microsucks, InHell, OCZ, Corsair, Samsung, et al. The majority of PC hardware manufacturers and a lot of O/S and software developers rush their half-baked crap to market because most consumers are idiots that will pay top dollar to be abused. Reply
ShieTar - Thursday, January 31, 2013 - linkIt is a Windows-Notebook, with a Windows-Sticker on it. It is never sold without Windows.
The problem here is not that Samsung forgot to test Linux, the problem is that Samsung does not care about Linux on this notebook. I am sure they have not tested MS-DOS or OS/2 installation either. While there may be a difference between Linux and OS/2 for many enthusiast or semi-professional users out there, for Samsung there is none. Its just not part of business model to support alternative operating systems. Reply
jalexoid - Thursday, January 31, 2013 - linkIt's a general purpose computer. They have to test the basic levels of functionality that correspond to certain publicly available interface specifications.
For example, guess what OS was used to test USB3.0 chips from Intel? It wasn't Windows. Reply
Alexvrb - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkUnless they tested those USB chips using these Samsung laptops, then his point still stands. :D If you want a Linux-friendly laptop, get a Linux-friendly laptop. Check with the manufacturer and make sure they've tested Linux on it, or at least make sure it is supported and/or covered by warranty.
I mean, did Samsung promise Linux would work on these? I could say that a Galaxy S III is a "general purpose computer" but that doesn't mean Samsung will care if I brick it by installing Linux (yes, it is possible :P).
Should they fix it? Yes, because it is a bugged implementation and needs to be fixed. Should people be shocked and outraged? In my opinion no. But the precautionary article is nevertheless appreciated. Reply
powerarmour - Thursday, January 31, 2013 - linkIf they don't test their machines with Linux, then they only have themselves to blame if it goes wrong. How about they get their hardware implementation correct in the first place, is that too much to ask? Reply
sherlockwing - Thursday, January 31, 2013 - linkIt have a Windows sticker on it, suffice to say they don't care about linux at all. Reply
tuxRoller - Thursday, January 31, 2013 - linkPer http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/130... the problem is related to the samsung-laptop compatibility driver. That should be disabled if booting into a uefi environment b/c it works by assuming a bios is at work.
The quick fix is just to have the module check, upon loading, to see if it is being booted from a uefi machine. Reply
JarredWalton - Thursday, January 31, 2013 - linkThe fact that the driver can basically corrupt the NVRAM is scary, nonetheless. This is one of those new "features" I guess we get with UEFI? Reply
tuxRoller - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkWe do get a lot of new features with uefi, but the spec is a mess (like ACPI!). Lots of needless complications (like ACPI!).
Matthew Garrett has been the main guy dealing with this on Linux and has written extensively about the ordeals, including the many issues with the older efi spec used by apple.
Here's his blog if you're interested.
http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/ Reply
yankeeDDL - Thursday, January 31, 2013 - linkI don't really see this as a budget vs mid range issue.
Considering that UEFI is designed not to have non-allower SW installed, I'd say that it is basic testing to check that:
a) it lets install what it should be possible to install
b) blocks what it shouldn't let you install
So I see this as a big no-no for the quality dep of Samsung: somebody forgot to add some checks as part of their OQC ... Reply
lord_beavis - Thursday, January 31, 2013 - linkFrom the beginning, this has been Microsoft's goal: to limit the potential impact of Linux. If it is difficult to install/run it, the less people will want to deal with it.
I can see it now:
Me: Well to install Linux we need to disable this "security" feature
Luser: Do what now? No. Reply
neothe0ne - Thursday, January 31, 2013 - linkTake off your tin-foil hat and understand that Windows can't be installed in UEFI on these laptops either. Reply
sherlockwing - Thursday, January 31, 2013 - linkWindows have already been installed, or do you not see that Windows sticker? Reply
powerarmour - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkYour car engine might have a sticker for mineral oil too, but doesn't mean you couldn't/shouldn't put synthetic in it ;) Reply
Alexvrb - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkSlightly OT: But the oil has to be compatible and meet or exceed specifications laid down by the manufacturer. If you stick 15w50 Mobil 1 in a vehicle calling for 5w20 conventional oil, don't be pissed at the manufacturer when you encounter problems down the road.
Way, way OT: Funny enough though, nowadays even "conventional" oil is really a blend. Modern SN grade oils use a decent amount of Group II+ (hydrocracked) base oils so they are essentially part synthetic. The better base oils also allows them to use less VI modifiers, which are expensive and break down more rapidly than the base oils they improve. That's a big part of why even "conventional dinosaur oil" is significantly better and more durable, allowing for longer change intervals. Reply
Notmyusualid - Saturday, February 02, 2013 - linkHa ha!
Well pointed out. Reply
6tr6tr - Thursday, January 31, 2013 - linkDoes the update you posted mean this is not a complete bricking but that it can be fixed by:
1. Unplug
2. Open the back of the laptop
3. Disconnect the battery (is it soldered on?)
Can you link to a source for that? Reply
Sahrin - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkabandon this false narrative that lower prices mean shitty products? I get that Apple has told you prices shouldn't fall over time, because they are never able to make efficiencies in design or engineering - but the truth is it is possible to build something good for less money.
Samsung made a mistake. You generalize and say it's because they hate Linux. As likely/unlikely as that may be, the reality is that people make mistakes all the time for reasons other than negligence and they will continue to long after computers can only be afforded by the top 1% of income earners.
EG: Antennagate. No one at Apple ever held the phone in their hand? Ever? Maps? These aren't signs of releasing a shoddy product even when a cursory examination would've shown that they weren't ready? And you certainly can't use the 'race' to the bottom' argument for a phone that costs $650. But it's a new technology? Yes, UEFI is too. Reply
embzyk - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkIt's a race to the bottom when hiring engineers, programmers, and doing QA. Higher prices just mean more profit - something investors demand from all corporate machines Reply
lopri - Friday, February 01, 2013 - linkWhat appears to be corrupted BIOS by unintended usage gets this much wall of text (w/ conspiracy theory added to it) is amazing. Things like this happen all the time on $300+ motherboards all the time. The fix is likewise simple, simple enough for those who were capable of messing it up to begin with.
OMG it's a crisis! My phone rang at 4 AM! Blah blah blah. I hope the lives of AT editors were a bit easier. You have my sympathy.
Samsung doesn't treat you well, I guess? Reply
Notmyusualid - Saturday, February 02, 2013 - linkMost who find themselves with a MB in their hands might be able to work it out.
But my mother, father, / etc.
I don't think so. Reply
tuxRoller - Friday, February 08, 2013 - linkFrom Matthew Garrett's blog (http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/22736.html):
"It also seems likely that it's possible for a userspace application to cause the same problem under Windows." Reply
sabrefresco - Wednesday, March 06, 2013 - link"Update: It appears the problem stems from NVRAM corruption. Removing power, opening the laptop up, and disconnecting the CMOS battery appears like it will clear the problem, but that's a pretty serious set of steps to take for most laptops."
I tried disconnecting power (by unplugging the battery connector on the mobo) and disconnecting the CMOS wire from the mobo and waited around a minute with no fix. Am I doing the steps right? Am I missing something? Reply
Ab S. - Thursday, May 02, 2013 - linkIt's not just Linux. I need Windows 7-32. Installed it in a new NP540U3C and got it running beautifully. Ever hear of a touch screen working on Windows 7? All the Samsung utilities installed and worked. It was even using the SSD drive perfectly. A week after I got it, one time it went to sleep and didn't want to wake up. Finally got it to wake up to a blue screen about a driver error. Now it boots only to the Boot Menu. Reply
stuartss1 - Saturday, July 18, 2015 - linkI have a Samsung NP270E5G-X01VE and I have been really worried about if my computer has that problem, somebody can help me? Reply


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OCZ Octane 128GB SSD Reviewby Anand Lal Shimpi on 12/28/2011 12:27 AM EST
38 Comments
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Xpage - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - linkThank you for the review on a model that is more down to earth on its cost. Reply
JonnyDough - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - linkI second that. I'm glad you went with a lower capacity model. I wish you had included a first generation Vertex drive, along with a second for scaling. It may be SATA II, but I'm still using Vertex 2 drives and I would like to see just how modern drives compare.
Also, it seems to me that the best middle of the road performer here is Patriot's Wildfire drive. Reply
realjetavenger - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - linkI was thinking the same thing. The Kingston HyperX and Patriot Wildfire are at the top of most of the charts and seem to be the real winners here. Reply
harshw - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - linkHi Anand
Will you be reviewing mSATA SSDs at any point ? It's the same thing with them - limited PCB space meaning 2-4 NAND chips => much less performance. I'm looking to add some mSATA SSDs to my HTPC and laptop, but where the vendors advertise insane performance, the forums tell another story :) Reply
Rick83 - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - linkA little tip: For small devices go for SLC NAND. That way you still get decent performance (and life-time - with little space there are less replacement blocks, and only so much load-leveling you can do) out of small devices, while only paying about ~2.5x as much - which at the small volumes isn't so dramatic. Reply
harshw - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - linkThe cheapest for 20GB SLC mSATA is £100 - that's the Intel 311 series. Is there a 40GB SLC mSATA ? Can't seem to find any
In any case a Kingston mSATA 60GB with the Phison controller nets for £75 and the OCZ Nocti 60GB with the Sandforce controller is £90~£100. The OCZ Strata 60GB with the Indilinx Eco controller is also around £75 but since there are no reviews and proper tests, can't really figure out which one to buy ... Reply
Rick83 - Saturday, January 07, 2012 - linkSmall devices for me are in fact up to 20 GB (I'm running two 8GB SSDs, where MLC might fall short). Above that, there is usually enough space to do decent wear leveling. (Wear is a function of the amount of writes per write block, hence the same amount of data written to a small drive over the same time, means more writes per cell, given the same level of write amplification)
It depends on your use case as well - for hybrid-caching or silencing down a HDD by putting the swap file on flash, SLC is probably the better choice, but for portable applications, MLC always wins due to size being more important than performance. Reply
Ammaross - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - linkThey've already benched the Intel mSATA devices. I'd go with MLC simply for cost effective reasons. In a year or two if you even are remotely worried about your NAND life, go buy another drive with the now twice the capacity and half the price.... (btw, NAND lifespan isn't near as important as it used to be. You're far more likely to drop-kick your Atom CPU well before your NAND dies). Reply
Samus - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - linkYou are so sexy! Reply
Tchamber - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - linkI liked your comment about how many Velociraptors we could RAID for the price of an SSD. I have two 300gig 'Raptors in my desktop, backed by an i7 970. Funny thing, my Core 2 Quad latop with and Intel SSD 320 120gig feels every bit as snappy, even better when booting or loading PSE. I should put the SSD in my desktop for a day and see what my file transfers would be. Reply
jramskov - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - linkMy desktop (i7-920 based, Win7 64bit) currently have a 160GB Intel G2 as a boot drive, but my data drive is currently an older 500GB Seagate.
Workload: Primarily editing images in Lightroom, etc. (compressed RAW files from a Nikon D700 currently).
I would like to replace the Seagate with a 256GB SSD, but which one would be recommended for such a workload? Reply
Denithor - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - linkStandard recommendations are:
Intel 320
Crucial M4
Samsung 830
All are known for high dependability. Last two use sata III controllers, which you do not currently have on your system, but would become faster when you eventually upgrade your system. (And will therefore remain competitive longer.) Reply
jramskov - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - linkThanks.
I was thinking along those lines and not the Sandforce based as I'm generally working with compressed data.
And true, I don't have sata III controllers, but I don't think my system is worth upgrading just yet :) Reply
JackF - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - linkI have a similar system (i930) and currently have a OCZ Max IOPs 120gb for my boot drive, and an OCZ Vertex 3 120gb as my game drive (along with a 600gb Velociraptor for data).
When I first got the MAX IOPs drive, I had occasional issues with the drive disappearing (would need a reboot), but with the firmware updates, this drive has been running for 2-3 months with no problems. I never had any problems with the Vertex 3, but I got it later and it had newer firmware.
I think the reliability issues have been resolved with the Sandforce 2281 controller and I would not rule these out as they have come down in price.
Even if you add an SSD for working with your large photo data, Keep the Seagate as a data back-up. Reply
jramskov - Thursday, December 29, 2011 - linkI was avoiding the Sandforce based SSD's because they are best for data that can be compressed, my images are already compressed. Images are relatively big (spanning from 5-15MB or so), so my thinking is that I should be looking at sequential read/write performance and less on random read/write performance.
I have no doubt though that almost no matter what SSD I choose, I will get a quite nice performance boost. Reply
JonnyDough - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - linkHe could also get a SATA 6GB/s controller card. Reply
ckevin1 - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - linkBe careful of this -- the total bandwidth of a PCI-e 1x slot is only 500 mb/s. That's less than the maximum SATA III speed, and if you hook up more than one drive you could actually cap out at less than SATA II performance for each disk.
Maybe there are more expensive adapter cards that plug into a different PCI-e slot, but I would be inclined to only rely on motherboard connections for true SATA III speeds for the time being. Reply
StanFL - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - linkGood review. In the last paragraph on the final page, myriad is spelled incorrectly. Reply
Denithor - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - linkNo spell checker? Sheesh... Reply
JonnyDough - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - linkYou must be new here. And by here I mean the internet...
Education in America is at an all time low. Reply
yogi2k - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - linkI guess your education must have been bad, seeing how the internet is global and not American. Reply
billegge - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - linkHere is where I stand: I am a software developer and I develop within VM's, and VM's are IO intensive when running more than one VM on the same drive - thus I will choose a sandforce drive and not the Octane for the que depth. However, my daughter uses a netbook in a consistent manner - a very light workload and i think the Octane would suffice for her however the price point of the Octane is too close to the price of a Sandforce so I would rather go with the sandforce. BUT, OCZ is going to put out a Petrol version at a much lower price point - in this case and considering my daughter is running a 5400 RPM drive the Petrol should give her a significant boost at a price I would be happy with. So... I would like to see some Petrol benchmarks - but really mostly I would like to here from a live user their "experience" of the drive rather than benchmarks. Reply
Morg. - Thursday, December 29, 2011 - linkSimple answer : your daughter does not need an ssd, quit trying to spend money for no reasons.
If she can survive a netbook without requiring a hammer, I don't see why she'd need an SSD. Reply
krazyderek - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - linkWould have been great to see the samsung 830 128GB drive in the same charts
THANK YOU for the performance over time analysis that was missing from the original 512GB review due to logistics. I read these reviews for personal interest but also with an eye on them for something that a lightweight server could benefit from (at work). Reply
todlerix - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - linkAm I alone in being sore at OCZ for their sleazy means of making money? (Change NAND resulting in performance loss without changing the SKU or informing their customers.)
To counter the nearly guaranteed "But they changed their ways!"
They only came clean once they were busted. If they were never caught the practice would still be an on going.
(Prepare for a cliche.)
They were only sorry they were caught. Reply
MrCromulent - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - linkI won't be buying OCZ for a long, long time as well. Besides their questionable business practices, every single one of my 5 older Indilinx Barefoot drives failed within one year.
Firmware upgrades usually take a few hours. I have to test 5-8 PCs until I find one that lets me boot the DOS image and flash the drives without cryptic error messages. Reply
FunBunny2 - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - link-- The smaller transistor geometry will eventually pave the way for cheaper drives
Given the past history of geometry drops, I don't thinks so, if maintaining performance is taken into account. We've seen significant increases in over-provisioning with drops so far. Given that we know the physics gets non-linearly worse for each drop, I'd be surprised if a 20nm SSD with comparable performance will be cheaper. Reply
sheh - Wednesday, December 28, 2011 - linkLooks like even after TRIM the drive is writing somewhat slower than it was (159 -> 134 MB)?
And is HD Tach inaccurate in reporting burst speeds? Some of them are slower than the average. Reply
SanX - Thursday, December 29, 2011 - linkNew Year of course is an excuse but not like in this case: that was worst ever publication about SSDs
-bad set of drives was taken. The mix of SATA2 and 3 is like comparing apples and oranges. Well it was ok when we had rare SATA3 drives. Not anymore. If Corsair is shown here with SATA2, it has to be shown with SATA3 too because it looks bad in this paper.
-non-substantiated predictions about pricing. Do you time the market? Prices strictly depend on market conditions --if market will nosedive like in 3 years ago in Mar 2009 the prices will follow below production costs. For example the 3 years ago we've already seen flash memory at $1/GB and see them again at this price point only now.
-No serious critics. Almost like on sites which are inherently interested to sell any cr#p they review. If this will happen, that will be the end of former great Anandtech. OCZ could easily make write performance of this drive in par with 512GB version taking same amount of smaller capacity NAND chips -- no suggestions or in-deep discussions why it was not done.
Don't drink and drive, Anand.
And Happy New Year Reply
Spoogie - Thursday, December 29, 2011 - linkThis drive has AES and Automatic Encryption, which is required for any drive I'll buy given that SSDs cannot be erased with current consumer technology.
Thanks for the review. Reply
daos - Thursday, December 29, 2011 - linkI recently purchased this drive from the egg and I love it. Very reliable and not one blue screen. This is coming straight from a Sandforce 2281 Corsair Force GT 60GB that would blue screen sitting idle. That drive drove me crazy. Ill never go back to another Sandforce. So far so good. Been running this drive for abourt a month now. Reply
gamoniac - Thursday, December 29, 2011 - linkAnand,
Last October, you reviewed Kingston's SSDNow V+100 128GB (with Toshiba controller) and gave it a pretty high mark. It performed admirably under both light and heavy Anand Benchmark. A couple months back, the new SSDNow V200 is out, with JMicron controller and better specs than the V+100. I personally own two of each model but the benchmarks I have taken left me puzzled as to what to think about the newcomer. The random read/write department is great but the sequential read/write department is way bad, despite of the 6Gbps specs. I personally thinkg V+100 is way better and feel quite a bit ripped off by V200.
There is no reviews out there for V200 yet and detail info is hard to find. Do you think you can shed some light on the latest from Kingston? Thanks much, and happy new year. Reply
erple2 - Friday, December 30, 2011 - linkWasn't there a firmware update that was released for the M4's that substantially boosted speeds? I seem to remember that happening after the 256GB drive was released/reviewed. Reply
erple2 - Friday, December 30, 2011 - linkMeep. Nevermind. I just re-read the article you linked. Reply
johnf1285 - Friday, December 30, 2011 - linkSo at what point can we expect to have this SSD turn into a brick just like every other OCZ SSD that I've ever owned? Reply
chasM - Sunday, January 01, 2012 - linkSorry to say it, but all the prices from newegg,amazon, and Compusa are for a different drive. That model is more in the $170 range. Reply
LoosCarl - Sunday, January 01, 2012 - linkGet OCZ Octane SSDs from Amazon, if you missed it: http://cl.lk/21hkw07 Reply
binqq - Friday, January 06, 2012 - linkOur Website: ===== www fashion-long-4biz com ====
Our main product list is as follows: Reply

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