text:
Intel Plans on Bringing Atom to Servers in 2012, 20W SNB Xeons in 2011by Anand Lal Shimpi on 3/15/2011 2:35 PM EST
- Posted in
- CPUs
- IT Computing
- Intel
- Atom
- Xeon
54 Comments
Back to Article
baka_toroi - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - link"Starting in 2010 Intel will have an Atom based..."
So, is it already on the market or has your inner calendar gone back a year or two, Anand? :3 Reply
JarredWalton - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - linkJust fixed it. :) Reply
yioemolsdow - Wednesday, April 20, 2011 - link
★∵☆.◢◣ ◢◣
◢■■◣ ◢■■◣
◢■■■╭~~*╮((((( ■■■◣
◥■■/( '-' ) (' .' ) ■■■◤
◥■■■/■ ..../■ ■■◤
◥■■■■■◤ jordan air max oakland raiders $34a€"39;
◥■◤ Christan Audigier BIKINI JACKET $25;
\ Ed Hardy AF JUICY POLO Bikini $25;
\ gstar coogi evisu true jeans $35;
\ gstar coogi evisu true jeans $35;
\ coogi DG edhardy gucci t-shirts $18;
● \ ●
《 》 》》
》 《
^__^:====( www etradinglife com )====== Reply
JMC2000 - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - linkThough I know AMD's stance on using Bobcat in servers, I wonder what kind of ULP chip could be made with 16 or 32 Bobcat cores? Reply
Taft12 - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - linkNot an effective server chip, that's for sure. Bobcat is absolutely not suited for server loads.
AMD has no offering in this space (and won't for years if ever), but as this article points out, this only projects to be ~10% of the market. ARM is the competitor here, not AMD. Reply
OneArmedScissorB - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - linkIt's "for sure?" Did you design the Bobcat core, or what?
It's not like whatever implementation of Atom they go with will be the same as the PC version, even if that's drastically updated and addresses every conceivable issue. The platform itself will have to be radically different, and it would be just the same for Bobcat. Reply
HibyPrime1 - Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - linkI believe he was referring to the fact that the bobcat core has a high performance (for a server) GPU in it. That would end up being wasted energy in almost any server. The only place GPUs are used heavily in servers is in HPC applications, and bobcat is far too slow for that. Reply
JMC2000 - Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - linkActually, Bobcat itself does not contain a gpu, just like the Bonnell core doesn't. The Brazos platform chips, Ontario and Zacate, are what contain the gpu. Bobcat is just the low power x86-64 core used in them. But 16-32 of them on either a single C32 or G34 socket would make for a very dense, low power server. Reply
mino - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - link"Bobcat is absolutely not suited for server loads."
Well, compared to Atom is SURELY is. The ONLY ingredient missing is ECC.
On the other hand Atom having 1/2 the performance on top of missing ECC has just been nominated by Intel to the Microserver space.
Just wondering who paid for that post of yours... Reply
MonkeyPaw - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - linkYeah, it's not like Bobcat is based on Opteron, which put up a good showing until Nehalem. Before Intel's IMC and QPI, Intel's x86-turned-server products were engineering bandaids. FB-DIMMs? Really? Reply
piroroadkill - Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - linkIt's more suitable than Atom, by any measure. Reply
noeldillabough - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - link*If* and when the new version of Windows Home Server is finished and *if* its cool I'd be looking at one of these low power processors for its heart. What board(s) go best with low power Xeons? Reply
casket - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - linkArm is coming to windows... not surprised to see this.
"Microsoft announced on 5 January 2011 that the next major version of the Windows NT family will include support for ARM processors. Microsoft demonstrated a preliminary version of Windows (version 6.2.7867) running on an ARM-based computer at the 2011 Consumer Electronics Show.[88]" Reply
Taft12 - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - linkWhy would it need to be one of these Xeons and not the 35W TDP Core i5? Reply
greenguy - Thursday, March 17, 2011 - linkECC Ram. Reply
JGabriel - Monday, March 21, 2011 - link
Okay, but why do you need error-correcting RAM in a home server? Assuming the primary applications are serving files and multimedia, ECC seems unnecessarily robust for your purposes -- especially since buffered, registered, RAM costs twice as much. Reply
anactoraaron - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - linkWhy not download the beta before making your server box?
As far as I can see it's just like V1 but without the Drive Extender. The interface isn't that different, and it functions similarly to V1 WHS. Reply
MrSpadge - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - link2 Sandy Bridge cores with a 20 W TDP running:
Load on 2 cores: 2.2 GHz
Load on 1 core: 3.4 GHz
... that's how I want my dual core and what Bobcat should have been!
At least proportionally. 2 much slower and simpler cores at a maximum of 1.6 GHz at 18 W seems outright stupid in comparison. Sure, it's got a GPU included in this power envelope.. but this thing shouldn't consume power when it's not doing anything (as does the SNB-GPU), otherwise it's a really bad choice for the task at hand. Reply
asmoma - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - linkTurbo is coming to brazos. Google: AMD E-450 Reply
mino - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - linkThose SB chips also cost about the same a Brazos SYSTEM does. :) Reply
duploxxx - Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - linkduh, it also has a GPU remember?
Atom in current design with inorder architecture is useless, this is already shown in many benchmarks that Brazos is a much better chip for that. Unless off course Intel totally redesigns the atom Reply
marc1000 - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - linkI don't believe extreme low-power server will make enough success.... it is way better to have only 1 or 2 "medium" servers and virtualize small server inside those boxes.
think about replacing 1 CPU or memory in a really high density server... the current blade servers are already crammed enough. Reply
Johnmcl7 - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - linkThat was my initial thought but there are other uses for servers that I think microservers would work well, one example I've seen is within manufacturing equipment. In my experience there seems to be increasing use of PC equipment (rather than dedicated PLC equipment) and servers are chosen for uptime/reliability. However frequently these servers are overpowered so a system using a low power processor in a server system could be appealing.
John Reply
Sam125 - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - linkThat makes sense, but going with ultra dense micro servers seems overkill for equipment that doesn't require much computing power to begin with. Of course I would be a fool to doubt Intel's ability to size up a market, but I'm having a hard time picturing where an ultra dense microserver makes a better choice than what's already out on the market. Reply
mino - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - linkFor certain markets, isolation is key. And the cheapest way to achieve _undisputable-by-every-second-idiot_ isolation is by going the microserver way. Reply
L. - Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - linkI doubt that will have any impact on "every-second-idiot", as managing many micro-servers will be done using a micro-server management tool, with which you'll be able to do as many big mistakes as with a virtualization tool (or almost).
Dense microservers are useless.
In the sense that, if you find it funny to put 2 cores on a micro-die, it is still way more interesting to put 36 cores on a normal sized die, with all the benefits and cost cutting that implies (shared mem controller etc.).
Also virtualization has brought a lot of manageability and I don't see that becoming useless because there is another power efficiency point of interest in "micro-servers".
Besides, any "spike" load on those atoms and you'll see how useless they can be.
Really, I can see 36 low-power cores on a die, but 2 low-power cores on a die IN a datacenter ? what for ... if you're in a datacenter you need 36+ of them anyway and you'll definitely prefer the manageability increase and the lower power requirement of a single die 36 core toy over 18* the even lower power req. of those dual core mini-cpus.
Also one must realize that splitting one 36 core box (assuming somebody sells a 36 low-power core die, which would NOT have more computing power than the current multi-core AMD cpu and would surely not use more power) in 18 2 core boxes means you have 18 power supplies to plug, 18 damn network cables adding to the spaghetti dish of the day, etc.
Not even talking about RAM yet, because if you're going to put something that's equal to 1/18th of a real server CPU in it's own box, it would be only right to give it like 1 Gig of RAM ...
Management costs up, maintenance costs up, complexity up, price up ... yes you get hardware-level isolation and potentially extremely cheap fully redundant solutions (like 2 4-socket atom boards in a 1U chassis with integrated load-balancing woo ..) but that still does not make any sense to anyone who uses a datacenter quarter rack or more.
Obviously some people will buy these, because Intel said so, but I think it's clear atom-like C/A PU's are just good for low-power stuff, like home file server, and the stuff mfeller2 mentions just down here. - And for the poor who need full h/w redundancy or those who don't like virtualization's manageability (and the every-second-idiot effect). Reply
casket - Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - linkI completely agree. Microservers are crap. If you have smaller cores that use less power, like an atom... you can stick lots of them together. There is no need for a deep pipeline... if you have 100 cores. 36 cores would be great... but we're going to have to wait a little bit. 16-core atoms is coming, though.
Microsoft Pressing Intel for 16-Core Atom
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/16-core-Atom-SoC-... Reply
marc1000 - Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - link1 CPU with 16 small-cores that has the same performance as 1 CPU with 4 big-cores?
I don't believe the power savings will be THAT great, once you start to put more CPUs on the same die the power needed goes up.
anyway, this defeats the "isolated server" idea. Reply
email@example.com - Thursday, March 17, 2011 - linkI think you're missing the point here with th 2 * 16 = 1 * 32, logic?
Forget about Intel for a moment and think about where these CPU's come from? The ARM's typically runs our smartphones software and as such it has to be battery savings that has been the holy grail as a target when producing it. Sure a concious target against a dedicated server market could errode some of this but on the other hand it isn't absolutely a must. Low power footprint as an isolated parameter has an ideal value of 0 in any use case but has different importants in the many different tasks.
Computer centers becomes more and more burdened by the power cost and to lower the power usage get more and more important and as such this kind of server chips and ultra mobility chips becomes a match. One could belive you would be heavily constraned by raw physics and get the simple proportionality as you describe but as it is today, the ARM chips has an efficiency advantage and by the same time not beeing to poor to be usable for a lot of tasks.
Had the bigger iron just been bigger, your analysis would be perfectly valid. As it is know you seem to forget the proportional differences in powwr usage.
Now get back to Intel and the Atom and think about why this is the best candidate? Well it is their low power chip but it has also some or a lot of the ARM battery saving mantra it share with it. That can make it do better than any 2 * 16 = 1 * 32, will show. Xeon has not been made with an overall battery savings agenda covering the whole architecture project from day one until production as of now! Reply
ajcarroll - Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - linkL, while I think your points are valid, it's important to note that micro servers are a different form factor to blades. They're not just dropping a low power CPU into a blade, but rather putting it into a half width / half height box, so that you can fit 4x into the same rack. Plus they plan to share power supplies... So while I think you're raised valid points, it really boils down to whether or not they address the issues you raise. If they don't address the issues, then the technology is indeed worthless, if however they do succeed in producing something that is competitive in some applications, in terms of computing power vs. power consumption/physical space, then they will succeed in those markets. My gut feel is that 5 years from now, Microservers will indeed have established themselves as a legit technology that is the best choice for some applications, while utilizing virtualization on more powerful boxes will be the best choice in other situations. Reply
mino - Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - linkThere are MANY, MANY use case where e dedicated physical machine is either required or good to have. This is where the real market is.
Give me a physical hosting on Atom over Virtuozzo "hosting" any day. Reply
mfeller2 - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - link1. I run an Atom "server" at home. File serving, proxy server, light web server duty, at a whopping 22 W typical. Smaller, quieter, and more power thrifty than the re-dedicated desktop.
2. I have been interested in AMD's solution because (I believe) it supports VT in a slightly higher power envelope. Current Atom does not have hardware support for VMs. I sometimes use VM's as sand boxes to experiment in.
My use is not mainstream, and not the focus of Intel or this article, but adding ECC to the mix has an appeal to my little niche. Reply
Taft12 - Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - linkIf you're only using VMs as experimental sandboxes, who cares if you don't have hardware support for virtualization? It still works. Reply
mino - Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - linkAnd is painfully (borderline useless) slow on in-order Atom. :) Reply
madmilk - Saturday, March 03, 2012 - linkI run an Athlon II X2 250 in my server. Power consumption is about 29W idling with an extra Intel NIC and 4GB DDR3, as well as one 3.5" 5400rpm hard drive spinning at all times and 2 more spun down but still connected. It supports VT, and if I had the right motherboard (which I don't) it can also use ECC memory.
Pretty nice, I think! Reply
vol7ron - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - linkIs this article in any relation to: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4208/cebit-2011-some... Reply
devene - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - linkI think that they are being shortsighted. Instead of limiting the server why not make a hybrid server that uses both low power and medium power CPUs? The small cores take over during light loads while the heavy weights wait power gated in some low C state, and once load peaks, the serer kicks in with full force. The idea sounds like a logistics nightmare but if anyone has the resources to solve it, it's intel... Reply
DanNeely - Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - linkI believe high end VM farm software allows you to shuffle VM's between machines on demand; is there really a need to put both high and low end CPUs in the same enclosure instead of swapping the VM between two separate servers in the same rack? Reply
pjkenned - Tuesday, March 15, 2011 - linkServeTheHome.com already has benchmarks of the Xeon E3-1220, E3-1230, and E3-1280 CPUs up, and has had them up for some time. Reply
JMC2000 - Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - linkWhy did Intel change the Xeon model number scheme? There was some kind of continuity with the 3xxx, 5xxx and 7xxx lines. Reply
PhilipHa - Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - linkClearly Intel is trying to counteract upcoming ARM based servers, including those from Marvell and Nvidia.
Calxeda claims to be working on quad-ARM-A9 server nodes with less than 5W TDP including memory, and up to 480 cores in a 2U form factor. ( http://www.zdnet.co.uk/blogs/mapping-babel-1001796... )
I guess the problem for Intel is that it needs to cover this potential market whether it is realised or not. Intel's big problem is that this has the potential to significantly reduce margins in their server business. Some claim such ARM servers will produce 5x to 10x performance per watt, and 15x to 20x better price performance. ( http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4213963/Ca... ).
The other advantage the ARM eco-system has is that its cores can be tailored to specific requirements, so for example floating point silicon area could be reduced in favour of more cores and better integer performance in areas, for applications like web servers where floating point performance is not needed. Reply
marc1000 - Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - linkI've read your link. there is an interesting part in it:
"each node will consist of an ARM Cortex A9 quad-core CPU, DRAM and fabric interconnect , and will consume around 5W"
so, for 480cores you would need 120 quad-core nodes, that will consume 120*5W = 600W. this is in line with any multiple-cpus server.
take 4 quad-xeons (130w each), plus mobo and memory, and you are in the 600W arena in 2U space again.
there is simply a physical limit in doing calculationsby using electricity. it does not matter what kind of cpu you use, you will just need similar amounts of power to do similar amounts of calculations. Reply
marc1000 - Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - linkthat in the same process node, of course. Reply
MadMan007 - Thursday, March 17, 2011 - linkWhoever came up with the dumb-sh*t abbreviation 'SNB' for Sandy Bridge needs to die a in a fire. Reply
marc1000 - Thursday, March 17, 2011 - linkagreed Reply
greenguy - Thursday, March 17, 2011 - linkThis is more likely to combat what AMD is planning, which will (hopefully) be the release of a relatively low cost Llano with power gating on CPU core and GPU, with low idle power and ECC RAM support, which is what is needed in a home NAS or server. With all the video stuff on the APU and power gated, the total system power draw has potential to be very low.
A system with ECC RAM is the perfect complement to NAS with ZFS RAID, ZFS ensuring that your data is as it should be, and the ECC RAM ensuring that any data that should be written is the correct data. And also ensuring that the system is running as it was coded to, without mysterious crashes. Reply
UrQuan3 - Thursday, March 17, 2011 - linkI'm kind of late posting on this one, but oh well.
An Atom-like server would have its uses. Twice in the last year I've had to spec a machine that needed tiny computation ability, but 60GB of ECC ram. The machine simply does not exist. Using a dual, quad-core Xeon for a que manager is painful, but there is currently no other way. The ram cannot be spared for adding VMs, so the cores just sit there. A single atom/bobcat/nano on a 64-bit ecc memory bus would be perfect. Reply
dirk adamsky - Friday, March 18, 2011 - linkHello all,
HP already offers a low power cpu server, the HP Proliant n36L microserver based on the AMD Neo cpu.
I did combine the n36l microserver with a HP Smart Array p410 raid controller with 512MB cache (with battery)(controller price in the Netherlands is in or about 270 Euro (now already down to 250 euro)).
The setup is combined with 2 x 4Gb Kingston memory and 2 x 300GB WD Velociraptors.
I made 4 blog entries on installation, VMware ESXi installation, MS Win SBS 2011 installation, etc..
They first 2 can be found here:
Later I will post about running multiple vm's on the n36l.
Best regards,
dirk adamsky Reply
krumme - Saturday, March 19, 2011 - linkOne BD module, dualcore, is aprox 32mm2 sans L3, thats less than half a zakate...
Is the nearest competitor for AMD BD Atom or SB then? - or ARM?
Soon Intel will realize the have a good SB cpu but without a profitable market for it Reply
lili75 - Monday, March 21, 2011 - linkwelcome Reply
lili94 - Wednesday, March 23, 2011 - linkwelcome Reply
huran - Sunday, April 03, 2011 - link( http://www.2kuu.com )
Online Store,Get Name Brand Fashion From 12USD Now!
Lv,Gucci,Prada,Coach,Chanel Women sandal is $30
DG,JUICY,Lv,Gucci,Coach Hand-bag price is $35
Polo,Locaste,Levis,EdHardy,Bape,Christan Audigier AF,COOGI Tshirt price is $12 Jeans price is $34 Paypal accept,Door to Door services!
5 days arrive your home or you ur friends' adress by EMS,DHL,UPs click my link under here!
( http://www.2kuu.com ) Reply
psiboy - Monday, April 18, 2011 - linkAtom would be road kill in the server market... any of the new AMD Brazos lineup would smash them.. especially as Atom is not an out of order cpu for crying out loud! Reply
ratana - Sunday, April 24, 2011 - linkWhat moron would ever consider putting an underpowered POS like Atom in a server? Really, they aren't worth the juice they burn in computing power relative to any other computational device, even a single CUDA core (Stream proc), as you like it. It would be just dumb to waste space in or on a blade with this wimpy POS; it would create more heat than the feeble arithmetic it can do is worth removing. I had these embeddded in my gel electrophoresis vislilizer for taking photos of proteins as they separated out due to varying voltages and I hated it; somewhat like the guys in "Office Space" hated the photocopier. I hate Atom. Love the Xeons and core series though. Reply

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Mail letters to Letters, Santa Fe Reporter, PO Box 2306, Santa Fe, NM 87504, deliver them to 132 E. Marcy St., fax them to 505-988-5348 or email them to the editor.
Stronger Message
In response to your article, "If I Was Trying to Kill You, I Would Have", Paul Golding acknowledges that most domestic violence is perpetrated by men [Letters, Aug. 12: "What About Men?"]. He then insinuates that women are doing more of it than we know, and that this makes the Reporter story "inaccurate" and is in part an indication that we have a "one-sided agenda-driven press" dealing with this issue. But the statistics are what they are, and the reality is what some of us journalists see: a community that is, despite the best efforts of some, unable to send a strong enough message to men to get them to stop stalking, verbally assaulting and beating the daylights out of women. A husband throws his pregnant wife to the floor, smashes her face, tells her he's going to kill her, then gets probation. As long as some in the community (and somhttp://www.sfreporter.com/admin/story/story/add/e in the press) continue to treat this kind of thing as a "domestic disturbance," after which the man just needs a second chance to control himself, the message is fairly clear: Boys, you know where to put your rage. If exposing this is one-sided and agenda-driven, then count me in.
Jim Williams
News Director, KUNM 89.9 FM
Santa Fe
Get a Clue
Your article on domestic violence did a remarkable job of catching some of the essence of this complicated matter while entirely missing the point. Your reliance on the irrational "expertise" of the so-called "advocates"—those strident harpies who routinely have no credentials aside from a self-righteous victimhood and a rigid adherence to the party line and especially to its central creed that there can be absolutely no personal responsibility assigned to the (female) victim—had the intended effect of severely altering the reality of the cases presented.
I don't expect to disabuse anyone in a brief note, but here is a clue: The worst violence portrayed in the article was performed by a woman. Had a man perpetrated this disembowelment on a woman, he would have been immediately jailed on attempted murder charges, regardless of provocation.
Kenneth L Kast
Santa Fe
Queer Quandary
As a queer Santa Fe resident, I was dismayed to read Wenda Watch's comment that "we have little to no Queer Community."
One of the main reasons I moved to Santa Fe two years ago was the large LGBTQ demographic. I moved here without knowing a soul, and immediately found a warm and welcoming queer community. I see it still at queer-owned and/or queer-friendly spots such as Back Road Pizza, Max's and Aztec Café, at events such as Santa Fe Gay Pride, dance parties thrown by Wenda Watch, performances by local queer performance troupe the Gender Offenders (of which I am a member), events at RainbowVision and Wise Fool, and Equality New Mexico benefits and rallies.
Could the queer community be better, stronger? Absolutely. We need a forum for discussion about building bridges between gay men, lesbians and trans folks. We need a safe space such as a queer community center and more services for queer youth (though the Mountain Center does a wonderful job). And a gay nightclub would be great.
Though there's room for improvement, the existing queer community in Santa Fe is beautiful and thriving, and should be acknowledged.
Katy Medley
Santa Fe
Bull Market
The founder of Sunflower "Farmers Market," Mike Gilliland, was quoted saying, "our customers…want value and don't care if that food is natural, organic or what." I think a lot of Santa Feans do care if their food is natural, organic...or WHAT?
Sunflower is the worst case of green washing since hybrid SUV's that get 19 mpg. Is it really a farmers market? Is there really value in selling your community artificial flavors and hydrogenated oil? Circus peanuts and liquor?
There ARE other grocers in town that offer affordable natural foods. Let's not fall for the used-car fever pitch, balloons and flag flapping hype.
It reminds me of that saying, "If your grocery store has a natural foods section, how do they explain the rest of the store?"
Valerie Collins
SouthSide Santa Fe
Workers, Rise up
Zane Fischer's "Bull Markets" was interesting for what it said and more for what it did not say.
About Sunflower Farmers Market, he did not mention the large picket sign outside. The carpenters' union is protesting Sunflower's unwillingness to meet area labor standards when it hires substandard wage contractors.
About Whole Foods, he did not mention that its CEO is using his money and position to lead the fight against single-payer national health insurance or that he is also a leading union buster.
Yet the parking lots of these markets are full of hybrids and fancy imports sporting pristine Obama for president stickers.
Liberals! Going green and organic and fair trade and saving the planet while helping to screw the working class. Listen, if you can't get it at Trader Joe's, [La Montañita] Co-op or the Farmers Market, you probably don't need it anyway.
I remember the [Industrial Workers of the World], and I think the old Wobblies had it right: The workers can only be freed by the workers themselves!
Robert McDonald
Santa Fe
Aisle Shock
I'm left in a state of mild shock by the article on the Sunflower Farmers Market opening and Santa Fe's alternative-food-market scene. Frankly I've never seen Whole Foods as such a hot singles scene to wonder if they might sell vials of Caverject under the checkout counters. And then to read Sunflower's founder/CEO Mike Gilliland say he's after "crossover" customers who might be "natural-foods-curious." Hmm. And that Ziggy's International Market carries pestles big and textured enough to be described as "ribbed for pleasure." Does all this mean that we can expect to see Squeaky Fromme cruising Santa Fe organic market aisles now that she's out on parole?
Richard Dean Jacob
Santa Fe
Picking Up Papers
Thank you for bringing on John Photos. I recently took a hiatus from reading the Reporter because my favorite section was filled with fluff and poor writing. But now I have new reason to read my favorite weekly mag. It's nice to pick up an issue to find a writer who can communicate something real and meaningful about art, who is willing to enter into new and strange experience as a person and writer/critic—"Unmade in the USA"—and whose writing keeps me reading rather than forces me to throw the paper to the ground in frustration and disgust. WELCOME, John! I'm glad you're around.
Alexis Brown
Santa Fe
The Reporter welcomes original, signed letters to the editor. Letters (no more than 200 words) should refer to speci?c articles in the Reporter. They may be edited for clarity and space. Include address and phone number for verification purposes; these will not be published.


text:
Rent Cape Cod 1st edition today, or search our site for other textbooks by Henry David Thoreau. Every textbook comes with a 21-day "Any Reason" guarantee. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company.
Need help ASAP? We have you covered with 24/7 instant online tutoring. Connect with one of our tutors now.


text:
Square UP issues
Posted 05 July 2012 - 06:46 PM
As I thought when I got a line it took to long to ask for how people wanted the receipt. The asking is fast the response time is slow. Paper text or e-mail- how do you want your receipt?? but getting the phone # for a text or an e-mail for a receipt is slow stuff-writing a paper receipt is faster( they are stamped and just need the price filled in) but not everyone wants that.
I already have two of us working one the money the other wraps pots.
Square up is a slow deal as far as receipts-my 8000 just printed them RIGHT now and I could move on. No asking no worries
so for now the 8000 is 2nd day air back for repair.
Anyone out there with this and has done that with square up and has to a speedy solution when the line gets long.???
This will not be an issue at a slow show only where the sales are brisk.
Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:09 AM
It takes too long to enter someone's e-mail address and it's very easy to make a mistake (and you'll always encounter people who don't have a text plan or use e-mail). I use a pre-printed receipt on 2-part carbonless paper, 4.25x5.5" with my logo and contact information. I can easily and quickly jot down the item, size and color and give one part to the customer, keeping the other for myself. I have a checkbox for cash, credit or check. Using 1/4 of an 8.5x11" sheet of paper and black ink, these receipts are incredibly cheap to produce at my local printer.
Another benefit to the physical receipt: I've had many customers contact me for additional purchases using the information on their receipt because they've lost or given away my business card.
Posted 06 July 2012 - 09:47 AM
Posted 06 July 2012 - 10:41 AM
I just want my customers to be happy with that
My nurit 8000 will be back in 3 weeks from being repaired-I'm still in the testing mode with square up-The economics is about 1% difference with the square up.
The other thing was that cards are a bit harder (slower) to swipe in that small footprint-I had to do many a few times to get them to take .
I did take the tutorial on swiping but even with that it was far from a one swipe deal.-I have several readers so that may help.
At least my nurit can store forward something the square up cannot do.
Posted 08 August 2012 - 07:41 PM
- Dinah and scoobydoozie like this
Posted 08 August 2012 - 10:13 PM
Posted 09 August 2012 - 07:37 AM
Posted 09 August 2012 - 08:34 AM
The original issue that Mark raised was not how to generate a receipt with the square, but rather how slow it is to type in an email address for every receipt. For artists like Mark, he will often have a line of customers waiting to pay him, and he needs to process them as fast as possible. I wish I could say I have a line of customers :-) but frequently I will have one person waiting. It's normal for me to process 50 credit card sales in one weekend, and typing in an email for each one sounds too slow to me too.
It's really important for your customers to enjoy the experience of the purchase. That's what makes them want to do it again. Modern consumers are very sensitive to an inefficient process. It doesn't take much to make someone feel like the process wasn't fun. Being slow is one of those things. I know when I am waiting to purchase something at an art festival, if the artist is being too slow I am not impressed. On the other hand, when someone has a smooth and efficient check-out process, makes me feel appreciated, then hands me a beautifully wrapped package, I think "nice!"
I just signed up for the Intuit GoPayment swiper, which I will use with my iPad (still too much of a cheapskate for a smartphone data plan, iPad lets you buy the data $15/month only when you need it). Like Mark and Brandee, I plan to skip the email address and just hand people a paper receipt.
Posted 10 August 2012 - 03:13 PM
My comparison with the square up and a traditional wireless veriphone/nurit 8020card processor is as follows.
I found the square up a tad slower by writing paper receipts (on my own custom printed receipt books)over the blazing speed of the 8020 spitting them out. I did not over the e-mail/text options to customers as this is way to slow.The swiping is also slower as the square is very touchy and a few swipes are the norm.-My 8020 takes cards on one swipe.One needs to go thru several steps with the smart phone screens to end sale-this all takes just a little longer .Not much but some
I had 208 visa sales (not counting checks and cash sales) of those I had 20 American express which I used the square on as I cannot take them via my other card account thru my 8020.
I had a steady line at times all three days and most folks wanted a receipt.
As Gep pointed out in todays want it RIGHT NOW WORLD- time in line needs to appear to move quickly so for now my square up is an American express special and I will continue to use my 8020.
One last not at every days end getting the totals for your square up account is also longer as you need to log into your account to get that-this all takes more time when you could be resting for the next days madness. For me with high volume sales the square is just another tool not the only tool to capture visa.
If your sales are small in numbers that is no lines of buyers the square up is perfect really just right in every way. Thats not my world so its not quite there yet.
Posted 10 August 2012 - 03:29 PM
The Square Register app for the iPad now allows you to connect a receipt printer but it only works with an Ethernet interface. I hope they are working on a similar solution for those of us selling at shows where Ethernet is not an option, because the Register app allows receipt printing for cash and check purchases as well. How great would it be to never write a receipt again?!
Posted 10 August 2012 - 10:17 PM
I have from the very beginning used the no receipt under 25$ function-but in most of my square use the average sale is larger than that.
. I will never have room on my small sales table for anything but a smart phone as the table already has a cash register and wireless visa machine and business cards and is 18x33 inch's-
So the rest of table is used for all the pottery to be put there as we wrap it.
I'll post a sales table photo when I download them.
I have used various table setups over the years and my current one is the best for me. very small has a drawer-matches my display and has room for bags under it as well as my jumper battery and inverter to make 110 volts to power the register. It also runs on batteries. My setup is makes for short quick work with various tax zones as they are figured out in the register .
Posted 11 August 2012 - 02:13 PM
This booth is a corner double in the middle of flow.
Heres my table-all pots are brought to this tab alone.
Posted 11 September 2012 - 02:51 PM
My fees deducted from 6k in visa where running at 3.4% of total.
I also used the square up on top of this total and its was as advertised 2.75% of square up total
For me its still use both for awhile.
Posted 11 September 2012 - 09:15 PM
Neil Estrick
Kiln Repair Tech
L&L Kilns Distributor
Owner, Neil Estrick Gallery, LLC
Posted 12 September 2012 - 09:03 AM
However it totally saved my butt on one sale ... one customer went through three credit cards until she found one that wasn't declined. With my Nurit I "store and forward" all my charges so I wouldn't have known that until later. And the card that finally worked was an amex, which I couldn't accept with the Nurit. I've been using a knucklebuster or a "store and forward" terminal for almost 10 years, and only had TWO charges fail that way. My theory was that people who like handmade pottery are not inclined to max out their credit cards. But this is the second declined card I've gotten in the last two shows. At my last show in July, I emailed the customer and he came back to my booth the next day with a different credit card. And I'm pretty sure the customer this past weekend would have been good for the money too, it's just a lot of extra work to straighten those situations out. I guess in a post-recession era even pottery fans can max out their credit cards. So I'm really glad I can approve or decline their cards on the spot.
With my Nurit, I could get cellular service and instant approvals for $30/month, which I was too cheap to do. With the iPad, I can get a month of cellular service for $15, and I can skip that during months when I don't need it.
I'll probably hang onto the Nurit for a few more shows just in case. If I still like the Intuit swiper at the end of the year, then I'll cancel it.
Posted 12 September 2012 - 02:14 PM
Neil Estrick
Kiln Repair Tech
L&L Kilns Distributor
Owner, Neil Estrick Gallery, LLC
Posted 13 September 2012 - 09:07 PM
Posted 10 October 2012 - 11:34 AM
The next day same thing happened-almost exactly-
I always let the customer look at me swiping the card as it can take 10 swipes but usually 2-4.
I'm checking into intuit swiper as its a better card reader. The square is ok for a few charges but if you have 100 in a day you can have issues.
Mea I signed up with gopayment-looks to be a better card reader
Will not have it for Half Moon Bay Pumpkin Festival this weekend but thats fine.
Posted 16 November 2012 - 12:23 AM
Korey Averill
ka Studios Pottery
Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:21 PM
Neil Estrick
Kiln Repair Tech
L&L Kilns Distributor
Owner, Neil Estrick Gallery, LLC
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


text:
Promo Code citrus
some exclusions apply
after discounts
Stand up straight with feet flat on the floor, arms relaxed at sides. For accuracy, measure over undergarments & keep the tape measure parallel to the floor.
Measure around the fullest part of the chest/bust, while keeping the tape under the arms and around the shoulder blades.
Bend to one side to find the crease of your natural waistline and measure at that point, keeping your measuring tape comfortably loose. If you are between sizes, order a size up.
Measure around the fullest part of your hips, 7-9 inches below your natural waistline.
Measure similar pants that fit well. Lay them flay with the front and back creased smooth. Measure from the top of the inside seam to the bottom of the hem.
Dresses are measured from the highest point of the shoulder to the bottom of the hemline.
Size charts are to be used as a guide and provide general body measurements. Sizing and fit may vary by brand and/or body type.