text:
I promised it wouldn't be long before the tutorial was ready on how to paint your kitchen cabinets. I have worked hard to include all the information that you will need to do a professional job, so beware, this post is going to be LOOOOONG. It's ok, when it's time that you need the instructions, you will be glad.
I will first talk about the prep work, the list of supplies you will need, and finally the techniques you will need to complete the task of transforming your kitchen.
All of my information on this project is from Shawn from Aspen Mill. A good friend and an AMAZING cabinet maker. He does amazing work and made me an unbelievable TV frame for Jill's house. He agreed to teach me the "RIGHT" way so that I didn't steer anyone in the wrong direction and cause thousands of dollars in damage. This project has been in the works for months and months, and I'm so glad that Shawn was on board. {You can help thank him by checking out his shop}.
First off, the kitchen is the most important room in your home, at least it is in my home. It is the gathering place. It is used every day, all day. You deserve to have your kitchen look like YOU want it to look. One thing I have found about painting kitchen cabinets is that EVERYONE {and their dog} has something to say about this decision. They even think their opinion counts {gotta love 'em, but it doesn't.} So, if your dream is to have purple cabinets with a coral glaze, go for it. I might even look at you a little wonky, but who cares. You can have whatever color of cabinets you want. Kapeesh? Don't let anyone talk you out of it.
But, now that we have established it is YOUR decision, don't do it without doing it RIGHT. I don't want you to paint your cabinets unless you commit to doing it correct. I want your kitchen to look like your cabinets were ORIGINALLY that color. I don't want brush marks, or painted over hinges. I want you to do it professionally so that you aren't mad at yourself in a year from now. Let's start learning how.
Step One: Take before pictures and unpack your kitchen, you will need to remove everything from your cabinets too. {Empty those bad boys}.
Step Two: Gather supplies:
Drop cloths {we used canvas drop cloths inside and plastic out in the garage,
a rented paint sprayer {this one looks like the one we had,
Tinted pre-catalyzed lacquer, We bought ours at Jones Paint and Glass.
Clear Satin pre-catalyzed lacquer, Amazon is just coming out with this product, but I'm not sure if it's the correct sheen. I just posted a question to find out.
Klean-strip Sander Deglosser {also found at the Home Depot},
lint free cloths,
oil based tinted glaze {optional},
a painting mask {absolutely NOT optional},
about three rolls of painter's tape,
One roll of brown paper, 2X4s,
a few 5 gallon buckets {or boxes},
wood putty,
a screw driver,
a cordless drill,
painter's tape
and a small compressor. I know that I'm going to be flooded with questions about brands…etc. so I have put together a picture gallery to help. I also don't want you to get held-up on the project if your paint store offers a different kind of lacquer..etc. Ask the professionals. They will know which paint sprayer you need to rent. They will know which lacquer is going to be the best choice. The items in the picture are the products that Shawn from Aspen Mill recommended to me.
Step Three: Begin with the prep work. Start disassembling the cabinets and remove the doors, drawers and hardware. Put all the hardware in a safe place. We used a ziplock baggie for all the screws and hardware.
Step Four: NUMBER EACH CABINET in a way that you will remember where each one goes when you get done. We took apart the hardware and put a small number where the hardware was going to be installed again. We even put a small piece of painter's tape over the number so that it wouldn't get painted.
Step Five: Place your drop cloths on the ground, and the 2x4s on your 5 gallon buckets {or boxes} for the cabinet doors to sit on.
Step six: Tape off the kitchen with your brown paper and painter's tape. Be picky and make sure that your painter's tape is perfectly aligned and press hard to make sure it is doesn't peel up. It helps if you put the painters tape BEHIND the cabinets a little along the edge. If you have the ability to do so, I recommend it. Be careful if you have to climb.
You also need to tape around the floor and the inside of your cabinets. Nicole and Justin {my cousins who own this awesome kitchen} wanted to leave the island wood. I love mismatched looks so I loved the idea.
Step seven: Wipe down all the cabinets with Klean-Strip Sander Deglosser {let dry} and sand lightly with Superfine sanding pads. This step prepares your cabinets for the tinted lacquer {the white}. Shawn says that some cabinets {especially old ones} can have a funky reaction when painted. Cleaning them with the deglosser takes off all the dirt and grime and helps prepare the surface. The sanding pads rough up the surface a bit to help the lacquer adhere.
Step eight: Wipe off the cabinets with a dry cloth, and spray off the dust with a small air compressor. Again, if you try and paint your cabinets with dust on them, it will not adhere. So you need to be careful to get all the dust off prior to painting.
Step nine: Paint a light coat of tinted lacquer on your cabinets. Go slow and be careful to not put too heavy of coats on. Lacquer is as thin as water and it comes out perfectly smooth, if you put on too heavy of a coat it will drip. Don't worry if this happens, I will show you how to fix it, but if you take it slow you will prevent a lot of these mistakes. Your lacquer will dry in about 20 minutes. It goes FAST when you get to this point, but beware, you absolutely need to wear a mask. The fumes are insane. In fact, if you are living in your home while you are painting your cabinets, you should consider going to a hotel for a day or two.
Step ten: After you have painted a light coat of color on your cabinets and it is dry, you will see every imperfection perfectly. You will see nail holes that you didn't know existed. You will see knots in your wood. You can now decide if you want to fill them with putty or not. We filled all the nail holes but we liked the knots. So, we filled the nail holes and left the knots. Let the putty dry completely before moving on to step eleven.
Step eleven: Sand lightly again with superfine sanding pads. Then wipe down again with lint free cloths. Spray them with the air compressor to make sure all the sanding dust is off.
Step twelve: Turn into a robot and repeat. Yep. paint. another. coat. {said in a robotic voice}
Don't forget to do both the front and the back of your cabinet doors. {P.S. Be extra careful to let the doors dry COMPLETELY before you turn them over…they will stick if they are not and you will be super upset because you will have to sand and re-paint…yep speaking from experience here.}
Step thirteen: Sand, wipe off, and spray off the dust with the air compressor {yes in between every coat}. After the cabinets are completely painted, do a quick check to see if any touch ups need to be done. We marked the spots with painter's tape and did one last touch up coat.
Step fourteen: Sand, wipe off, spray off. Dude, you are going to know how to do these next couple steps with your eyes closed because you guessed it…IT'S the SAME!
Step fifteen: Now's the time to change out the tinted lacquer for the clear lacquer. Make sure you get instructions on how to do this because you will need to rinse out your sprayer {hose and all} with lacquer thinner. Then, you will put in the clear lacquer and start spraying coats of clear coat.
Step sixteen: Spray a light coat of clear lacquer on your cabinets. Be careful not to create drips and smudges. But if you do, it's ok. I'll teach you how to fix them.
Shawn said, "You can go a little heavier with the clear coat than with the white." So, I took that to heart and made a HUGE mess. It was a disaster.
To fix drips and smudges, let the paint/or clear coat dry completely, sand with 220 softly until the smudge cannot be seen. Be careful not to push too hard because if you take off the paint you will have to put more white on {and THAT is no fun because you have to change out the clear coat in your sprayer for white and then change it back to the clear coat when you are done…yes I'm speaking form experience here}. After you can no longer see the smudge or drip, sand with the superfine sanding pad to make it soft again.
Voila! Your smudge is gone and you can move on. PHEW. I wanted to cry when this happened, but don't panic.
Or if you are like me, you will have a BAD mistake to fix. {Don't tell Justin and Nicole, they weren't here for this part}…oh wait. I think I just let the cat out of the bag.
Yeah, it was terrible. Tears almost came at this point. My excuse? I couldn't see very well because I didn't have a light on that side….it dried, and I had to sand off the entire disaster. Again, I used 220 grit sand paper and pressed softly. Don't push too hard or you will take off the white. Then use a superfine sanding pad to soften it up again. Voila, don't panic it will all be ok in the end. 🙂
Step seventeen: Glaze your cabinets {if you choose}. We did a light gray glaze on the cabinets to add a subtle charm and they turned out amazing. If you need instructions on how to glaze it is SUPER easy. You use a clean, lint free cloth and wipe on the glaze and wipe it off. That's it. It isn't hard. I have a glazing 101 post that shows instructions, but you need to use OIL based glaze for this project, not water based glaze. To glaze cabinets with oil based glaze you need to use a DRY cloth not a wet one. Step eighteen. Spray on your LAST coat of clear coat {you will need to do two coats total}. Don't forget to sand, wipe off, and blow off with the air compressor in between each coat. You will get really good at it, I promise. After your last coat of clear coat you do not need to sand! YAHOOOO. After you have done two coats of clear coat, you. are. done! And you want to cry because you are soooo happy. 🙂
Step nineteen: Now all you have to do is reassemble, and since you numbered them perfectly and covered it with painter's tape, all you need to do it take off the tape to reveal the numbers.
They look like they were painted in a cabinet shop. I feel like a proud mother showing off her child.
I am in love.


text:
Dealing With Asthma Triggers
Please Note: By clicking a link to any resource listed on this page, you will be leaving this site.
Allergy and Asthma Network/Mothers of Asthmatics (AAN-MA)
Through education, advocacy, community outreach, and research, AAN-MA hopes to eliminate suffering and fatalities due to asthma and allergies. AAN-MA offers news, drug recall information, tips, and more for treating allergies and asthma. Call: (800) 878-4403
American Academy of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology
The American Academy of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology offers up-to-date information and a find-an-allergist search tool.
A cross-agency U.S. government website, AIRNow provides useful air quality information, including daily Air Quality Index forecasts and details on conditions in more than 300 U.S. cities.
American College of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology
The ACAAI is an organization of allergists-immunologists and health professionals dedicated to quality patient care. Contact them at: American College of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology 85 W. Algonquin Road Suite 550 Arlington Heights, IL 60005 (800) 842-7777

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Pretoria, Centurion, Midrand, West Rand, Johannesburg, East Rand, Gauteng South, Cullinan & Bronkhorstspruit
Nestled in the heart of the Highveld, Gauteng is the smallest province in South Africa. Comprising only 14% of the nation's land area, the province contains the highly urbanized and expansive cities of Pretoria and Johannesburg.
Situated in the south western corner of South Africa, the Western Cape is one of the country's most popular locations and destinations. Boasting the exquisite allure of the Winelands, the Karoo and the splendour of the Garden Route, the province also houses Cape Town – the Mother City – a haven for its culturally practised and tasteful residents.
Table Mountain, Cape Town City Bowl, Peninsula, Northern Suburbs, Southern Suburbs, Cape Flats
Also known as the Garden province as a result of its coastal sub-tropical climate, KwaZulu-Natal has always been one of South Africa's favourite holiday destinations. While the coastline is dotted with picturesque small towns, the province's interior consists mainly of inspiring and spectacular rolling hills.
The Eastern Cape includes such diverse landscapes – from the arid Karoo to the wet and windy Grahamstown – that any person can find their nirvana here. This province also boasts South Africa's only snow skiing resort, which is situated in the Southern Drakensberg.
With Bloemfontein as its capital city, the Free State is found in the very heart of South Africa. The lovely climate and fertile land have made the province a thriving agricultural community. The Free State's chief tourist attraction is the Golden Gate Highlands National Park nestled in the foothills of the breathtaking Maluti Mountains.
Meaning literally "the place where the sun rises", Mpumalanga is divided into scenic highveld and savannah lowveld. Main attractions in the province include the Kruger National Park, the Sudwala Caves and the Blyde River Canyon.
As the northernmost province in South Africa, Limpopo shares its borders with Botswana on the west, Mozambique on the east and Zimbabwe in the north. Limpopo's proximity to these African countries has gifted it with the beauty and contrasting landscapes that has made it a favourite among travellers and adventure seekers.
The North West province is a picture of authentic African bushveldt beauty that encourages adventure. From the quiet beauty of the Pilansberg Nature Reserve to the bold decadence of Sun City, the North West offers both culture and comfort.
The Northern Cape is the biggest and most sparsely populated province in South Africa, dominated by the Karoo Basin. This natural gem includes the Kalahari Gemsbok National Park, the Augrabies Falls as well as the famous Namaqualand region.
When buying repossessed property through Absa in a personal capacity, the buyer will not be held liable for payment of transfer duties on the property. An added bonus is that should you finance your new home through Absa Home Loans you will enjoy the benefit of discounted attorney fees. Why not start your search for your dream home today?
Standard Bank lists repossessed and mandated properties for sale via ONLINE AUCTION as well as online offers. Standard Bank will settle all arrears rates and taxes on a property, in addition to paying all rates and taxes due until the date of registration. To make the process even easier on the pocket, there are no transfer duties payable by the buyer when purchasing a repossessed Standard Bank property.
FNB takes the majority of the work out of buying repossessed properties by offering buyers up to 100% bond financing. The buyer will not be liable for any transfer duties, and FNB will furthermore pay any outstanding property rates and taxes up until the date of registration.
List your property for free until it is sold and pay zero commissionList For Free Now!
2,379,981 m2
MyRoof does not charge any commission to sell your property online. What we mean with no commission is exactly that – no fees are ever payable to us at any stage for the FREE listing option. MyRoof makes money by securing bonds for buyers for which the banks pay us a small fee. As we do not charge commission, you can accept a lower offer but still get the same amount of money in your pocket. This will result in more interested buyers in your property.
You may upload as many photos as you wish onto our website. This will help you in selling your property faster. The more photos, the better idea a buyer gets of your property. Remember that photos can give the buyer a desire to own your property! You can also add the best things your property has to offer on the extra notes section. Buyers enjoy looking at the additional notes to make a decision on whether to view the property or not
All privately owned properties on our website have floor plans in the main centers. Just imagine if you were a buyer and could get an idea of the layout of a property even before visiting the home! Not only will the buyer get an idea of how big the property is, but he or she will also get the chance to view the sizes of the individual rooms and see where they might want to add or remove a wall. The buyer will also have the opportunity to compare the sizes and asking prices of different properties per square meter. Lastly, the floor plan gives the prospective buyer a clear understanding of how the property looks as the arrows on the floor plan show from which angle each photo was taken. The buyer now gets a real feel for the property and can immediately see if this is what they were looking for. This means that only serious buyers will make offers on your property.
On top of the unlimited photos and the added floor plan, we also offer you a large client base where alerts are sent out to buyers who are looking for a property like yours. Alerts are sent to prospective buyers who have indicated that they are interested in property in a specific area at a specific price range. Alerts will also be sent out should you lower your asking price or arrange a show day with us. This has been found to work well to communicate with many potential buyers at once. And it also keeps buyers interested in your property!
We will keep your property on our website until the day it is sold – whether this will take a day or a year. MyRoof has hundreds of thousands of property buyers and send out tens of thousands of alerts daily to keep these buyers updated on new properties they might be interested in buying. Don't worry if you've heard that selling your property is difficult because you are in our capable hands – this is what we do, all day, every day. Our system has been proven to work by many satisfied sellers like you – all of this at no cost to you!
MyRoof offers the complete online experience for buyers. How do we do it? With our front page displays, many photos of your property, detailed floor plans, MyRoof For Sale board, MyRoof On Show boards and alerts we send out to our large data base. If you combine this with our world-wide marketing resulting in thousands of online offers on a daily basis, you know your property transaction is in good hands.
When you join MyRoof you immediately have access to all these terrific features:


text:
Malie Natural Soy Wax Candle: Koke'e
Koke'e captures the crisp, green, refreshing scent of the moist Hawaiian rainforest, lush and vibrant with life. The exotic, uniquely green aroma will envelop you with a bright, pure and uplifting scent. Made from clean-burning soy wax and infusions of pure Hawaiian Hydrosols that capture the very essence of the plant and flowers they're distilled from. What you get is a scent that smells like the real thing because it is the real thing. I kid you not - close your eyes and you'll swear you're in the tropics. These long lasting soy wax candles burn from a 100% cotton wick in a glass container that can be recycled. Absolutely beautiful and fresh for Summer.


text:
An unexpected consequence of the 2013 tax changesComments Email Print
A common issue occurs when a business owns the building where the business is operated rather than renting it from a third party. In the past, it was common and good practice to advise business owners to keep their business operations and their real property separate, usually by placing the real property in a limited liability company and then renting the space back. This organizational planning structure is referred to as a "self-rental." For simplicity, self-rentals often use a 'triple net lease' whereby the tenants are responsible for all the costs and repairs associated with running the property, and there is no change to the real life operations of the business or management of the property, except on the tax returns.
This structure, however, brings in to play some very complicated regulations which define net investment income and determine whether or not income from the rental activity is passive or active. The self-rental structure triggers a unique exception in the Internal Revenue Code that provides that the character of the income from the rental activity is based on whether there is a loss or a gain. As it stands now, losses from self-rentals are treated as passive losses and gains are treated as non-passive income and not net investment income. A passive loss can only be used to offset passive income; however, non-passive losses can offset both passive and non-passive income.
However, the new regulations implementing the Medicare surtax create some anomalies and leave open questions. It is entirely possible that such self-rental activity could be considered both a non-passive activity and not net investment income for purposes of Internal Revenue Code Section §469 but considered a passive activity and, therefore, net investment income for purposes of imposing the Medicare surtax. Simply put, the Internal Revenue Service wins twice.
Some business owners would benefit by revisiting their current self-rental structure, possibly by converting their rental agreements away from triple net leases and becoming more involved in the rental activity. In the end, the net income tax result is the same but the rental activity would rise to a trade or business and thereby avoid the Medicare surtax.
However, the standard for determining whether or not an activity is a trade or business is very fact intensive and should be examined carefully with a trusted advisor. It is important that business owners with the self-rental structure look at this issue now or you may be surprised when you file your 2013 tax return in 2014.


text:
Simon & Louise's Tour of America
May/June 2011
You can choose to subscribe to my blog by email or XML feed.
Subscribe to my blog - "Simon & Louise's Tour of America"
There are a few ways you can use these feeds.
You could add it to an online aggregator, such as My Yahoo! or Bloglines. Such websites allow you to keep track of your favourite blogs and news sources from one place.
Or you could install software on your computer, such as NetNewsWire for Mac OSX or Sharpreader for Windows.
Some modern web browsers, such as Firefox allow you to add these feeds as Live Bookmarks, which are automatically updated whenever a new entry has been made. If you are using Firefox already, you will see an orange icon (like this ) in your browser's address bar. Click on it to add the feed to your Bookmarks menu.
If you are not already using Firefox, you can click on the banner to the right to download it.


text:
on orders $75+
Earth Friendly Products (formerly Petastic pet products) has been in the business of making household and pet friendly products for over 37 years. Earth Friendly Products' mission is to create products that enhance the lives of every pet owner they touch. Earth Friendly Products Pet Stain & Odor Remover will work on carpets, upholstery, sealed wood, tile, linoleum, furniture, clothes, counter tops, and virtually any other water safe surface, to remove and eliminate the remnants of pet accidents for good.Earth Friendly Products guarantee that their products are always environmentally responsible, effective and valuable. They are never tested on animals or made with animal ingredients, and all of their compounds are non–polluting and help protect aquatic life. All products are bio–degradable, non–toxic, and phosphate–free with a neutral pH. Earth Friendly Products are green, clean, and proud of it.
Be sure to browse all of our Earth Friendly pet products to make sure you find just the right earth–responsible, green and safe solution for your pet needs.Pet Mountain is proud to offer you a wide selection of Earth Friendly pet products, at the very best prices available anywhere! Take a look at all of our huge selection of great deals! Can't find something you're looking for? Let us know! We'd love to help. Be sure to check out our online coupons and discount shipping on all your favorite products.Pet Mountain – your "have everything", online low price leader for all pet supplies!
Free shipping on all orders over $75, even the BIG STUFF that weighs a ton. No code. No hassle.
We want you to be happy with all your purchases at PetMountain. If not, we will make things right.
We won't be beat on price. Always shop with confidence with our low price guarantee.
We guarantee that every brand we sell is new and 100% authentic. Shop over 300 trusted pet brands.
We're confirming your subscription now. We want to make sure your email isn't already on the list.


text:
Very Hard Pics Gallery 578 photo
Hard Sex, Fetish, Femdom, Latex, Extreme, Bizarre, Perverted, Bitch, Pissing, Domination, Fisting, Footjob pics.
out of
Gallery 578
Mature pakistani wife riding on her hubby cock
Click here
for: Gallery 578
Jav Azumi Mizushima Photo Gallery
Anri Okita Sex Pic Gallery
Shiori Tsukada AV Gallery
Risa Tachibana Nude Picture Gallery Hd
Ayumi Shinoda Gallery Nude
Tsukada Shiori Ass Gallery
Yuka Kitsu Porn Pics Gallery
Gallery Fuck Erika Momotani
Tsukasa Aoi Sex Gallery
Photo Gallery Hd Porn Japan Yuna Shiina
Sayuki Kanno Foto Gallery
Reiko Kobayakawa Gallery
Jav Julia Sex Porn Blow Job Gallery Pict
Koharu Suzuki Photo Gallery
Hayashi Yuna Gallery
Risa Tachibana Gallery Fucking Photo
Gallery Pictures Porn Shiina Yuna
Gallery Picture Sayuki Kanno Porn
Crazy Asian Schoolgirl Spanking Orgy Gallery
Neko Asian Pee Pic Gallery Cosplay
Pornoics Pissing Gallery
Porn Actress Neko Ayami Nude Photos Gallery
Chitose Saegusa Fuck Uncensored Photo Gallery
Risa Murakami Photo Gallery
Ruri Saijo Sex Pic Gallery
Ruri Saijo Picture Gallery
Japanese Big Tits Yuka Kitsu Nude Gallery
Sayuki Kanno Photo Porn Gallery
Neko Ayami Gallery
Yukina Saeki Gallery
Gallery Porn Asian Orgy
Niiyama Ran Video Sex Gallery Od Man
Ai Haneda Fuck Gallery
Kokone Mizutani Gallery Picture
Tokyo Hot Super Pussy Gallery
Natsu Kimino Nude Photo Gallery
Sayuki Kanno Sex Gallery
Pict Gallery Kissing Asian Porn Sex
Sex Airi Suzumura Photo Gallery
Akane Yoshinaga Nude Pic Gallery
Nami Aino Photo Gallery
Aoi Aoyama Gallery
Tsubasa Amami Hardcore Gallery
Rina Araki Sex Pic Gallery
Foto Ngentot Asian Bukake Gallery
Jun Aizawa Picture Gallery
Kan Yamate Gallery
Yuna Hayashi Gallery
Eri Hosaka Sex Gallery
Karin Aizawa Porn Gallery Picture
Office Japanese Gangbang Photo Gallery
Tsukasa Aoi Pussy Gallery
Footjob Cumshot Gif Gallery
Japanese Mature Wako Anto Hottest Fucking Pic Gallery
All models depicted on this Website were 18 or older when the images were created. Very Hard Pics is a global porn search engine, we index and provide our visitors the most convenient way to search the best porn pics ever posted on the Internet. Very Hard Pics has a zero-tolerance policy against illegal porn. Very Hard Pics does not host any pics on its servers. All porn pictures and porn videos/photos are provided by third party tube sites, and we have no control over the content on these sites. Also, we take no responsibility for the content on any website which we link to.
Remove content


text:
Save Water Drink Champagne Pink & White Canvas
Save Water Drink Champagne Pink & White Canvas
Home Delivery
Out of stock for Home Delivery. Please check back soon.
Click & Collect
Unavailable for Click & Collect
- 45 day returns policy. Read our returns policy
Product notices
[This is a block of tabs..]
Product Details
Product Information
- Recommended for Kitchens or dining rooms
Technical Specifications
|Save water drink champagne
|Colour description
|Pink & white
|Straw fibreboard
|Metallic effect
|Pack Qty
Help & Advice
How to guides
How to create a feature wall
Why not think about wallpapering a single wall to create a striking design feature? We have a range of wallpaper designs for every style and purpose. Typically, most feature walls use a big, bold print. However for a particularly small rooms you could consider a slightly smaller print to give you a feature wall effect without making the room look smaller. Modern paste-the-wall paper now makes it easier to apply (as it doesn't require a pasting table) and is easier to take off should you fancy a change.
Product reassurances
Choose a convenient delivery date on 1000s of products
45 day returns policy
Arrange collection or return to store.Customer support team - 0333 014 3357
Free delivery on standard orders over £50
Excludes Large and Bulk delivery


text:
I went and played with it after posting. There was Missing bolt from blower to pipe, taped up gas orifice hole up, and got much better output... Then I realized..... Duh..... Dimmer dial........chances are i won't need 100cfm........ Especially. For smallish kiln.
( note to self don't test stuff when tired and late at night) ( so for most part disregard, in my best Gilda Radner voice......"never mind!"
Next question
What temperature do I need killn for gas to self ignite? What temp is red hot? ( yeah I'm trying figure options, before I drop coin for basso, and or other saftey parts)
Don't "invest" in a "dimmer" switch--unless its rated to be used with a load like your blower will produce, you'll burn out a lamp dimmer switch quickly. See how your blower has an intake on the side? Use a flat fridge magnet to cover that, you can adjust how much of the intake is covered to adjust your air output to the burner--simpler and cheaper than a rheostat for the blower. Now take that money you saved, go drop the ~125.00 on a baso valve.


text:
Baldwins Antique Jewelry
Baldwins Antique Jewelry has been operating for more than 50 years. We travel around the world to bring unique antique, estate and vintage jewelry to our customers. We specialize in Victorian, Art Deco and Art Nouveau jewelry. Antique, vintage and estate jewelry is a great gift for a loved one or a special occasion.
If you are looking for something special, consider our antique engagement rings, art deco necklaces, vintage jewelry, antique bracelets and vintage watches. We also carry antique brooches and cameos along with Tiffany and Company signed pieces.
Antique Rings
Antique rings are both romantic and mysterious, symbolizing infinity. By many, antique rings are highly sought after for formal occasions such as wedding engagements. Although modern jewelers replicate historical styles, an antique ring will always be unique. Shopping online for antique rings is a great place to start because you can quickly research ring-design settings from different historical periods.
Antique Necklace
The necklace is one of the oldest known forms of jewelry. Because of this, there is a wide range of antique necklaces in the marketplace. Antique necklaces range in materials and style. The most common antique necklace styles are bibs, ropes, chokers, princess and opera.
Necklaces can be found in many styles for men and women. An antique necklace makes a great gift for birthdays and anniversaries. The pendant is an important accessory to consider when buying an antique necklace.
Antique Earrings
Antique earrings are great for a night out or as a gift for your loved one. They can be found in all shapes and sizes. Most commonly, antique earrings are made from precious metals and stones. In some cases, antique earrings can be found made of wood or bone.
In America, antique earrings range from 1900 to 1960 are typically clip-ons. When shopping for antique earrings consider this. It is more rare to find studded earrings from the turn of century through sixties.
Antique Bracelets
Antique bracelets, like necklaces, are one of the oldest forms of jewelry. From East to West bracelets have served as signs of wealth and good fortune.
Typically, bracelets are worn around the wrist; however, when shopping for antique bracelets you will find some that wrap the forearm. Antique bracelets are commonly found in a wide range of materials, from precious metals to leather and shells. When shopping for non-metal antique bracelets, pay special attention to the materials that string the bracelet together.
Antique Watches
Antique watches can range in date from the late 1600s to the 1960s. Antique watches can be both mechanical or electronic. Self-winding, mechanical watches were produced in the early 1800s. Electronic watches were first produced in the 1960s.
The perfect antique watch will be both beautiful and functional. The casings are always made from metal while the bands may be made of leather or woven cloth. An antique watch will require regular maintenance from a skilled professional. Antique watches, for men and women, are popular gifts are graduations, promotions, anniversaries and birthdays.
Antique Brooches
Antique brooches are both ornamental and functional. In early Roman and Irish history, the brooch was predominantly worn by men, used to fasten clothes together such cloaks and capes. Over time, the brooch was also used to display family linage or cultural memberships.
Antique brooches are intriguing and are symbolic of position and place. In the Victorian period, brooches were associated with mourning. Antique brooches and pins are widely available today. They are very collectable and make good gifts for special occasions.


text:
From: Dandridge, TenneseeInterests: Props, Models and Polly PopWebsite - Tiki Central Profile
I'm also wanting to show as many pictures as possible of front, back and bottom of the mugs. While this site is a great resource, some of the pictures leave a lot to be desired. I feel that by documenting these mugs it will help others on thier search.
New to Ooga-Mooga?
Learn how to get your mug collection in Ooga-Mooga -- it's fast & easy!


text:
ZAP Fitness Foundation founded 2001, is a non-profit training center for post-collegiate, Olympic hopeful distance runners.
Objectives of the ZAP Fitness Foundation:
Reebok is a proud sponsor of the ZAP Fitness Running Camps and Elite Athletes. For more than 110 years Reebok has supported the pursuits of top athletes around the world in virtually every sport. This tradition continues here in Blowing Rock with Team ZAP and some of America's top young long distance runners.
Adult Running Vacation 2017
Registration Now Open!
Camp Information
ZAP Fitness coaching offers a variety of services for runners of all levels from beginners to experienced age group competitors. It does not matter how long you have been running, every one needs guidance in their daily running to maximize their potential, stay injury free and most importantly, to keep it fun and enjoyable.
Please visit the ZAP Fitness Coaching website for more detailed information and pricing for personal coaching, personalized training plans, and biomechanical analysis as well as to read Coach Warrenburg's latest monthly column from The Running Journal.
If you have any questions please contact us or feel free to call ZAP at 828-295-6196 for more information. Coach Warrenburg is happy to talk with you more about his coaching philosophy and your personal goals.
To stay better in touch with what is happening with ZAP Coaching you can follow the ZAP Fitness Coaching Facebook Page here.


text:
on orders $75+
Read 322 Wardley reviews, with an average rating of 4.6 out of 5 stars, to help determine which pet products are right for you.
Wardley is Americas largest domestically manufactured line of aquatic fish foods and remedies. What was established in 1950 as a distributor of various aquarium and pet products is now the predominant brand of aquatics products within The Hartz Mountain Corporation. Wardley provides a full range of nutritional foods for goldfish, betta fish, tropical fish, pond fish and marine fish. Wardley foods offer a variety of formats (flakes, pellets, crumbles or sticks) with specially designed formulations that provide superior levels of nutrition and vitamins that result in enhanced coloring and vitality of fish.Rely on Wardley to provide nutritious, natural and wholesome food for whatever kind of fish, amphibians or aquatic reptiles you keep. Thats right in addition to providing top quality food for virtually every type of pet fish, Wardley also boasts a line of foods specifically for turtles, tortoises, frogs and newts. As with all Wardley food, these products are specially formulated to provide the maximum benefit to your pets.
Be sure to browse all of our Wardley products to make sure you find just the right food for your aquatic pet.Pet Mountain is proud to offer you a wide selection of Wardley products, at the very best prices available anywhere! Take a look at all of our huge selection of great deals! Cant find something youre looking for? Let us know! Wed love to help. Be sure to check out our online coupons and discount shipping on all your favorite products.Pet Mountain your have everything, online low price leader for all pet supplies!
Free shipping on all orders over $75, even the BIG STUFF that weighs a ton. No code. No hassle.
We want you to be happy with all your purchases at PetMountain. If not, we will make things right.
We won't be beat on price. Always shop with confidence with our low price guarantee.
We guarantee that every brand we sell is new and 100% authentic. Shop over 300 trusted pet brands.
We're confirming your subscription now. We want to make sure your email isn't already on the list.


text:
CrossFire Xpress 3200: RD580 for AM2by Wesley Fink on 6/1/2006 12:05 AM EST
- Posted in
- Motherboards
71 Comments
Back to Article
Saist - Friday, June 02, 2006 - linkto quote
"short life for AM2 dominance before the launch of Conroe"
Um. Anandtech, if you actually do believe that Conroe's performance numbers are going to hold up in multithreaded applications that exceed 4megabytes of cache data, I think you need to redo you're calculations. After intel's showing of Conroe behind closed doors during E3, I think you should also be aware that the performance numbers are not adding up. Intel might finally be competitive, but even when Intel chips have been competitive in the past, AMD chips have won on price. AM2 may not be the only game in town come this fall, but to say it has a short life? Makes me wonder if you actually bothered even asking the game developers what they are getting out of the processors. Reply
JarredWalton - Friday, June 02, 2006 - link...multithreaded applications that exceed 4megabytes of cache data..."
We believe in real world testing. I'm sure there will be applicaitons where AMD still comes out ahead, but synthetic scenarios don't really count. If http://techreport.com/etc/2006q2/woodcrest/index.x...">Intel wins in encoding tests, 3D rendering, gaming, office... and loses in a few specific benchmarks that require lots of memory and low latency RAM access, does it really mean AMD is competitive? I mean, there are still a few specific scenarios where P4 can beat A64, but you don't see us trumpeting those as being representative.
What it comes down to is what most people will get out of each platform, and so far it's looking like a pretty clean sweep for Core Duo 2. Woodcrest vs. Opteron in HPC applications might be a different story (I doubt it), but that's really only relevant if you're running server workloads. As far as pricing, http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/1556_large_conr...">last I saw the $300+ prices of dual core AMD chips are going to have a difficult time competing with $185-$225 Intel chips. Overclocks are also looking promising as well, so a $185 chip running 2.8 GHz will be a force to be reconned with. Reply
R3MF - Friday, June 02, 2006 - linkcan you tell me the what and the when of this amzing revelation? Reply
Slaimus - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - link
In the end, if you want ATI CrossFire video you must choose ATI AM2 and if you want NVIDIA SLI you must choose NVIDIA nForce5.
You can run CrossFire on 975X as well. It should be a competitive platform once the new CPUs come out. Reply
Axbattler - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkUmm, the article made no mention of the Sil3132 performance on the A8R32-MVP, which I believe is bugged. Reply
Trisped - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkhttp://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2767&am...">http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2767&am...
First chart, #1 is the Silicon Image 3132 SATA2 (ATI) performance rating. Reply
Axbattler - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkI saw that. But if you look at the second graph, the performance of the Sil 3132 in the MSI board is considerably worse than in the ATI reference board.
That is still quite usable, but the one from the Asus A8R32-MVP is basically unusable (slower than what modern drives are capable). Reply
Wesley Fink - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkWe retested Sil3132 on the ATI and some other controllers for this review, and the other 3132 data should have been deleted. Now corrected. We are not aware of the 3132 issue with the A8R32-MVP. The Sil3132 is one of the best SATA2 controllers on the market, and it is a much better performer than the Sil3114. Reply
Axbattler - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkThe result does shown in the review does suggest a solid performance from the Sil3132 controller. However, this is what I have been experiencing:
- http://img267.imageshack.us/my.php?image=burst4dh....">http://img267.imageshack.us/my.php?image=burst4dh.... (Sil controller)
- http://img71.imageshack.us/my.php?image=burst27ja....">http://img71.imageshack.us/my.php?image=burst27ja.... (ULi controller)
Two motherboard bioses were tested (0311, 0404), as well as all the drivers from 126.96.36.199 (bundled with the motherboard installation CD, to the latest 126.96.36.199
The poor HDTach performance is reflected in real world application too, gaming loading, file copying are all slowed down to horrendous level.
I believe that Gary was able to replicate this issue (not sure if he eventually found a way around it), although I suppose that based on the result of the other board, it is an issue specific Asus board (perhaps the A8R32-MVP). Is there any chance you could run a test to confirm this?
Very few people in forums that I've visited use the Sil controller, perhaps due to the positioning of the SATA socket (which is actually optimal to where my Raptor is installed: on a 5.25" drive bay). Reply
Trisped - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkATI AM2.jpg is a bit blurry when blown up. You might want to set the camera on the highest quality setting so that doesn't happen.
quote:0X looks like a typo
CPU Clock Multiplier 4x-25x in 0X increments
Why did the Audio Performance charts not have any NVIDIA solutions?
Wesley Fink - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - link1X Increments corrected.
We did not have audio performance data for nVidia chipsets in the 590 launch review, but it will be included in our roundup of 6 AM2 boards which is in process. I have added numbers for the Foxconn ( nForce 590) HD codec for reference. Foxconn is the nVidia Reference board.
The board photo was captured at 12 Megapixels. Unfortunately, the "Save for Web" feature in Photoshop which gets the image to a reasonable file size for posting a 1280 image compromises sharpness at higher resolutions. Reply
Trisped - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkThanks for the Foxconn numbers.
So you used "Save for Web" and lowered the quality so it would be easier to download? That makes sense. A 43k file is much better then a 1M one. Reply
JarredWalton - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkOr 422K vs. 5+ MB. ;) Reply
lopri - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkI truly appreciate AT staff's responses to my questions. It cleared so many things that I questioned while reading the review, so now I'm understanding better.
the fact is DDR400 was the fastest memory standard for DDR. Anything higher was overclocking. For DDR2, we have DDR2-800 as the current highest standard speed
This is actually the only possible explanation that I could think of. You're right in that DDR400 is the fastest JEDEC approved speed. I sort of guessed but still, considering the ammount of memory reviews you've done in the past, thought a bit stranage. But thank you for explaining. Request, however: Please do a out-of-the spec DDR vs DDR2 reviews in the future. :D This can be a big factor for people who actually consider upgrading.
AMD introduced this platform with very conservative timings and tables for the board and memory suppliers to follow. We expect to see 1T timings at 800 later this year as AMD "massages" the memory controller. I ran tests at DDR2667 1T and they were basically the same or slightly worse than DDR2800 at 2T with all other settings being equal. The problem is we cannot run tRP and tRCD lower than 3 currently so any advantage of 1T is being wasted due to higher latencies. On a couple of our review boards we could also run DDR2800 at 4-4-4-15 1T but the 3-3-3-13/9 2T setting provided better memory bandwidth and lower latencies overall. We are still testing various memory settings as each board has been a little a different in optimizations made by each supplier. We will have a separate review on EPP and Memory settings for AM2 in the near future.
Again, I appreciate the explanation. Not knowing about DDR2 much myself still, I could not have known it when reading the review. It'd have cleared up some misunderstanding if you have mentioned the 1T/2T issues in the review (like above), it'd have helped a ton to understand. I'm sure there are many different traits of DDR2 compared to DDR, without such knowledge I could not help but questioning. Thank you, Gary.
Still the 1T/2T issue on AM2 is somewhat disappointing. (Not reviewers' fault) I have a bad feeling that AMD's IMC won't be able to handle 1T for DIMMs faster than DDR2-800, even with future revision. :( For entire lifespan of Socket 939, they couldn't get 4 sticks to run @1T timing.. (except a couple going-around of DFI's)
lopri - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - link
Our Corsair or OCZ PC8500 sticks will run at 3-3-3-9 2T at 800 with a small voltage increase to 2.2V easily although the memory is rated at 5-5-5-15 2T. I am working on a single versus dual channel DDR2 article at this time, cutting to the chase, single channel DDR2 with fast timings will provide up to 98% of the performance of dual channel DDR2 under the same conditions. It might be something to think about when looking at $350~$500 DDR2 2GB kits.
Also if this is true, it's an absolutely fantastic news. Please let us know the detail as soon as you can. Thank you.
DigitalFreak - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - link
ATI did not need to develop a new chipset for the new Socket AM2. Why then has it been so difficult for ATI to have AM2 chipsets ready for launch?
Maybe they didn't need to develop a new North bridge, but the South bridge is another matter. With ULi supplies drying up, it would have been extremely stupid to use the SB450 yet again. Reply
Myrandex - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkIt was stated that the ATI solution was better tahn the ULI and less than Nvidia, however in the graphs it was less than both, although very close to ULI.
Jason Reply
Wesley Fink - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkThe statement is correct. Going back to review notes there was a typo in the chart creation which has now been corrected. USB throughput for SB600 is 241.6 and not 231.6 as shown in the earlier chart. Reply
Alyster - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkI just wonder if SB600 will be available on 939 boards in future. I'm going to purchase ATI based MSI-RS482M4-ILD mATX motherboard with SB450 and may be I should wait untill they start offering SB600 on mATX boards. Any suggestions? Thanks Reply
Wesley Fink - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkAs we understand it, SB600 is not pin-compatible with SB450, so it is not a drop-in for the older chip. We therefore think it is unlikely you should wait for a board redesign on an older 939 board. Any new 939 boards - and there may be some if the market wants them - will likely use SB600. Reply
LoneWolf15 - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkNot that anyone will necessarily do so, but will RD580 support the building of Socket 939 boards as well? Reply
JarredWalton - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkRD580 socket 939 boards have already been made -- well, at least one of them has been made. http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2752">DFI CFX3200-DR It is doubtful that we will see many more socket 939 boards using the chipset, since AM2 is basically going to replace socket 939 as fast as AMD can make it happen. Reply
LoneWolf15 - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkOn Page 1, the table for the RD580 shows (8) SATA2 ports and dual-gig ethernet. The board specs on page two on the other hand, show 4 SATA2 ports, and single gig ethernet, but only if a PHY (i.e., Marvel or someone else) is used.
Apparently ATI has added 4 additional SATA ports via Silicon image on the reference board; but I don't call that a feature of RD580. What am I missing here? The table on page 1 seems to contradict what is listed on page 2. Reply
Wesley Fink - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkWe agree with you. The chipset has 4 SATA2 ports and the extra 4 ports come from 3132 Silicon Image controllers. I will try to edit the image. Reply
LoneWolf15 - Friday, June 02, 2006 - linkThanks. Also, what about FireWire? I think your article said that neither nVidia nor ATI has native Firewire (additional VIA/other vendor chipset required), but RD480 and RD580 are listed on your opening table as having 1/2 Firewire ports respectively. Reply
Stele - Friday, June 02, 2006 - linkI think the opening table is just a platform chart that divides the target markets of each chipset. On the first column is the target price range of a certain motherboard range. The second column identifies which chipset is meant to cover that particular range. The third column then explains the primary target market for that particular range. Lastly the right-most column briefly describes the features such a motherboard in that particular range should have. Reply
Wesley Fink - Friday, June 02, 2006 - linkYou are correct, Stele. With that said I now think a better way to handle this and remove confusion is to go back to the original chart and clarify that this is recommendations in the text. Thanks. Reply
Stele - Friday, June 02, 2006 - linkOh you're welcome. Looks like our replies to him were posted at the same time :P
Yes I think that's a great idea, otherwise after all the editing you're not going to have very much on that chart anymore! Soon we'll have people saying "$250 for a chipset? Then what's the motherboard going to cost??" ;) Reply
Wesley Fink - Friday, June 02, 2006 - linkThe feature chart is from ATI literature and was a listing of recommended configurations for various market segments. I have changed the SATA and Gigabit LAN and will remove the Firewire, since it is not chipset specific for either nVidia or ATI. There is an excellent VIA Firewire controller on the Reference board, though we would rather see Firewire 800 which is very fast but disappearing from new board introductions. Reply
Stele - Friday, June 02, 2006 - link
...we would rather see Firewire 800 which is very fast but disappearing from new board introductions
Probably because of
1) poor OS support - even Microsoft noted that Vista would not support 1394b at launch
2) poor device support - the majority of appliances and peripherals seem to be quite happy at 1394a with no signs of an imminent and/or major switchover to 1394b
so motherboard manufacturers probably thought "what the heck" and decided to keep costs low for now by sticking to the 1394a controllers, which are likely cheaper than their 1394b counterparts. Furthermore, the 1394a solutions are tried and tested, hence they also avoid unpleasant design surprises that may require time and effort to redesign around... resources which could be better used elsewhere for now. Reply
Stele - Friday, June 02, 2006 - linkOdd that the board uses two 3132s to provide the extra 4 ports - probably for logistic and pricing reasons (easier to stock and better economy of scale when buying 2x one chip compared to 2 different chips).
I say it's 'odd' because the 3132 was specifically designed to work with port multipliers, specifically their SiI 3726 1-to-5 drive multiplier. The 3132 thus has only 2 ports to save space and costs (for customers who only need 2, e.g. laptops). In this motherboard's case, instead of having two 3132s giving 4 ports, you could use one 3132 and one 3726 to provide (1 + 5 =) 6 extra SATA ports via the 3132, bringing the total number of SATA ports on the motherboard to 10.
Indeed, this would probably be a useful combination: 4 from the SB600, 4/5 from the 3726 and the remaining 1/2 routed to the back as eSATA. For routing simplicity, I suspect board designers may keep all the ports from the 3726 in one cluster near the IC and hence as internal SATA, leaving the 3132's other channel available for eSATA.
While we're on the SATA question, I'd like to ask if anyone has any confirmation about the RAID levels supported by the SB600. This is because on pg 2 of the AT review, it mentions in the diagram that SB600 supports, inter alia, RAID 5. However, on pg 3, the table does not list RAID 5 among the supported RAID levels.
I then went to ATi's website to check out their own pages on the SB600. Interestingly enough, there was the same problem - the diagram was also there, showing RAID 5, but their own spec sheet does not mention RAID 5 either! So does the SB600 support RAID 5 or doesn't it? :P Reply
Chadder007 - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkI wish ATI and NVidia would get off of this Dual Card setup crap and get their act together and make a Single Dual Core video card, in the way Dual Core Processors are being made now. Reply
Trisped - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkThat would be nice, but the power drain and heat dissipation problems would be un real. Then people would still want a dual card solution. I can see it now, you need a 1K power supply for your video cards and one for the rest of your system. Your video cards take up 6 slots and have fans that sound like a 1960s sports car. Your CPU has 4 cores and everything is over clocked 25-50%. Reply
JarredWalton - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkThere have actually been several dual GPU cards released in the past, although all of them still require SLI motherboards in order to function. (The SLI requirement is due to NVIDIA's drivers requiring an SLI chipset in order to function.) As far as making dual core GPU -- like the Pentium D, Athlon X2, Core Duo, etc. -- there's actually no point in doing so. Graphics functions are essentially infinitely parallel, so rather than making a dual core G70, they could just make a 48/16/32 (pixel pipelines/vertex pipelines/ROPs) chip instead. Of course, that would require something like 600 million transistors, so until we start getting GPUs made on 65 nm aren't likely to see such a design (or anything close to it). Reply
peternelson - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - link
On MAJOR difference not covered is in useable PCIE lanes.
The review talks about
x16 graphics
x16 graphics
no useable pci remain on the reference board
1x pcie
1x pcie
whereas the nvidia 590 solution offers much more including pcix4.
This is important for people who want to stick in extra raid controllers or specialist cards.
It would be good to highlight this shortcoming and whether it is purely down to the reference motherboard design or to the chipset not supporting as many lanes as the 590.
Also you mention that nvidia are working on putting both x16 in some future northbride (which will be nice). Can you give any hints as to timing, naming, or if this will be dubbed "nforce 6"
Wesley Fink - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkWe are expecting a bit more information and we will then add this to our comparison chart.
ATI RD580 AM2 has 40 PCIe Lanes - 32 for 2 x16 slots, 4 for interconnect between North and South bridge and 4 available for x1 x2, x4 slot(s). In addition the SB600 supports 6 PCI slots.
nVidia has 46 PCIe lanes available with 9 links. Reply
psychobriggsy - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkThis review says there is GigE in SB600, with a PCIe attached PHY.
It also says that nVidia's dual GigE is via PCIe attached PHYs. PHYs do not connect via PCIe, they connect to a GigE controller (whereever it is located).
In the case of nVidia, the southbridge has two GigE controllers integrated. In the case of SB600, there is no GigE controller, you attach it via PCIe x1, allowing you to use decent controllers, or crappy realtek controllers (making motherboard purchases have another thing to check). Reply
Stele - Friday, June 02, 2006 - link
allowing you to use decent controllers, or crappy realtek controllers
That's probably what ATi's thinking. There are pros and cons to both nVidia's ondie MAC and SB5600's lack of ondie MAC. By having no controller on the SB600, the chip cost is reduced while motherboard manufacturers have complete freedom to choose whichever controller they would like to include - Marvell, Realtek, etc. and single- or dual-port.
The only downside is that you'd need extra real-estate on the motherboard, though arguably it's not that big a deal, especially if controllers with built-in MAC and PHY are used. After all, for dual-port networking capabilities that has server-like features like teaming and fail-over, manufacturers can just use such products as the very attractive Marvell 88E8062 PCIe x4 dual-port GbE controller - which some motherboards like the Asus P5WDG2-WS already do.
Indeed, I'm hoping (dreaming?) that at least one of the top motherboard brands would use this controller in their RD580 solutions, but the fact that the controller is likely going to be quite expensive, along with the perceived lack of the need for such a high-end component would probably kill that idea. Reply
Wesley Fink - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkBOTH the ATI and nForce 590 use PHYs that connect to the chip and communicate over a PCIe lane. We were merely differentiating that the Gigabit LAN in both cases communicated over PCIe and was not connected to PCI. nVidia has 2 Gigabit PHY connections, while ATI has 1 Gigabit PHY connection. Reply
peternelson - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkHe's right, the PHY (external or internal) connects to the MAC, which is subsequently connected to the pcie lanes. No pcie goes to any Gbe PHY. Reply
peternelson - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - link
a) Don't keep saying that GBethernet performance is just for bragging rights because broadband is only 100Mbps tops!
GBE is great for peer to peer lan gaming, for network backup of files or communicating with a fileserver, or for streaming media files.
b) The competitor to Crossfire Xpress 3200 is Nvidia 590 ie Nforce 5 not nforce 4.
Repeated comparisons with nforce4 are thus irrelevant. eg networking, usb, sata performance.
c) Usb performance of nvidia is NOT equal to ATI, it is OVER 20% faster than ATI.
d) I suspect that although you hype up Intel's CSA architecture, that a GOOD pcie implementation might give better performance.
If so the remote machine in your networking tests could be bottlenecking the test, which would explain why the high results all flatline at virtually the same.
Repeat with a high end card (like myrinet 10GE on 8x pcie or at least a good pcie 1gbps target to establish if I'm right or not). If so stop using CSA cards.
Say if you are using direct wiring or a switch in your network tests.
Configure the nvidia 2xgbe lan in teaming, and bounce it at another 2xgbe in teaming mode. What is your speed and cpu performance then?
It's unfair to compare cpu at high network traffic to cpu at low network traffic.
You should be using net test against nforce 5. AND turn ON the hardware offload for a true comparison.
e) to benchmark the SATA II properly, are you maxing all ports or just testing against one hard drive as I suspect. The raid performance may differ significantly from a single drive. In any case also compare with a high end raid card like Areca 1260 to show how lame chipset solutions are in comparison.
f) The review summary should highlight that against the rival 590, the 590 has two more sata and an extra Gbe port.
g) Since ATI cross fire and nvidia sli are not interchangeable (I wish they were), the choice of chipset is more down to graphics preference, which for me at the moment gives nvidia an advantage.
h) So you have discussed ATI and Nvidia chipsets. WHAT ABOUT INTEL? ie a review of the similar generation Intel 965 chipset on some equivalent processor would tell if they are a valid competitor eg in terms of SATA, USB throughput speeds.
i) Also you are not mentioning the speed boosting (auto overclocking) Nvidia offers on a fully nvidia platform. ATI does not appear to have an equivalent feature. On the otherhand the manual overclocking capabilities seem to be there.
Trisped - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkA) The only time you will ever get enough network traffic in a LAN game to saturate a 1Gb/s connection is if you are running a server for over 100 PCs. Most games are designed for online multi player, which means the MAX they will use for standard game play is 6Mb/s from host to client and 512 Kb/s from client to host. With so many people still on 56k and cheep DSL (1.5Mb/s DL and 128 Kb/s) that is a bit generous. So even with 100 computers using the 6Mb/s by 512Kb/s connection speeds you will still not saturate a 1Gb/s duplex connection. Plus, with that many connected computers you would be hard pressed to find a powerful enough processor and enough RAM (that works in an nForce 500 board) to drive a server receiving that much data.
B) Yes, they didn't have enough nForce 500 stats, but if you read the review of nForce 500 you would find
quote:Which implies that there is no performance increase. Yes it would be nice to have the actual numbers, but since they just released the nForce 500 stats they probably didn't have any boards available when doing that part of the testing. Plus, since the ATI board was a reference, they may have asked that AT not compare it to the nForce till actual boards are available.
In truth nForce 500 is much more evolutionary in nature, with performance that is almost a dead ringer for the current nForce4 chipset. This is not really a surprise since we have not heard or seen anything that characterized nForce 500 as a new core logic.
C) Actually the nForce4 is 16.4% faster, or the ATI SB600 is14.2% slower, but the ATI solution is noticeably slower, but not 20%. It should also be noted that the only other SB USB controller tested was the ULi 1575 which has pretty much the same performance as the SB600.
D) True the results max out at about 950Mb/s but they are still progressing, so max bandwidth has not been reached. Also, the fact that you can get to 5% of a theoretical max transferee rate is amazing enough when you consider USB and Fire Wire are at 61% and 57% of their theoretical max transfer speeds. And don't think that using a 10Gb card is going to fix the problem. The 10Gb card will just switch to 1Gb mode when connected to a network were the lowest devices is 1Gb, unless you connect it to a switch which would have to buffer everything, clean up, reformat, and retransmit it meaning that you would risk testing max speed of the router, rather then the max speed of the server. I think, if anything, these tests are becoming obsolete. Before they were important because not all Gb Ethernet connections were the same. Some were PCI, some were PCIe, some were well done, some were quite poor. Now that we are seeing that both ATI and NVIDIA solutions are performing very close to the max possible it doesn't seem likely that a .02% difference is going to be all that important to anyone.
E) Yes, RAID performance will differ, but most people do not have a RAID setup, so AT keeps it simple. I would like to voice my support for comprehensive RAID testing though. It is important to know if you are buying a board that has poor RAID 5 or JBOD performance. I would also like to see what kind of transferee rates we could get out of a Raptor RAID as compared to other, more economic solutions.
F) I can see the 2 SATA ports, but the 590 only had 6, where the ATI reference board had 4+4, making the matter more complicated. AT was probably waiting for real boards to test before comparing something with such high potential to not be a point. The extra Gb Ethernet port is useless for everyone expect the small server market.
G) They pointed out the Crossfire/SLI exclusivness in the review. They have also pointed out that for half of the games tested the Crossfire solution was better then SLI, and the other half the situation was reversed. Since the 7900GTX costs $460+ with most closer to $500 and the X1900XT for $420+ (most around $460) and the X1900XTX at $470+ with most around $500 ATI is the better solution for the $. AT also encourages you to buy ATI because they want to encourage competition. If people keep buying NVIDIA just because they like it prices on NVIDIA cards will go up while innovation stagnates (just like what the iPod has done)/
H) Yes, a new Intel bench mark would be nice, but Intel doesn't make AMD boards.
I) Yes they did, as noted in this review and the one for the auto overclocking, there is barely any benefit. In this review they pointed out,
If you're new you might also choose the NVIDIA "LinkBoost" - overclocking for the common man - but just be aware that the items LinkBoost overclocks have almost no effect on performance at all. In fact, we find it just as easy to get great overclocks on the ATI leaving most choices at "Auto" as we do on the fanciest NVIDIA 590 chipset AM2.
Wesley Fink - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkAs we stated in the nF5 review, in comments, and in followup to questions on the nF5 launch review, the CORE of nf5 is the same as nF4. This is why feature performance of SATA, USB, and other items is exactly the same as nF4 - including some issues with nF4. We were not favoring ATI by using nF4 scores in some of our feature charts. The fact is the results for nF4 and nF5 are the SAME on those particular features.
Surely if you consider that the sounth "chip" is the same C51 that was used in nForce4 dual X16, it should be obvious that basic performance is the same. It was also shown by anyone that reviewed 590 that "LinkBoost" makes almost no difference at all in performance. To me LinkBoost matters because nForce 590 can now do almost 1500 HTT or more across the board - which means you don't have to lower from 5X HT until well above 300 clock speed. That is a feature that was already there in RD580 939 and is continued in RD580 AM2. Reply
Spoelie - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linka) peer to peer GAMING does not even need 10mbps. Only file serving in memory or raid can reach the ceiling of GBE cards.
b) I agree that the nforce 5 seems to be missing in some comparison graphs.
c) What I would like to see as well is cpu usage during USB transferring, how does it compare to Firewire (is a usb2.0 connection to hd preferred or firewire?)
d) The speeds are at about their theoretical ceiling, what difference is an extra 1-2mbps gonna make in the end? The 2xGBE is not gonna be of any use to any home desktop. 1GBE is hardly getting used. Didn't hardware offloading prevent firewalls to be used?
f) The review is of the reference board and not a shipping one. The difference is already highlighted earlier in the review. It doesn't matter tho if shipping boards provide the extra sata en gbe controllers, equalising or surpassing the 590 feature set.
g) The x1900xt is faster than the 7900gtx in most scenarios, tho the difference isn't huge. Besides, this was already highlighted in the summary.
h) How about you ask that question again when Intel MAKES AN AMD CHIPSET! This is comparing chipsets for the AM2 platform, and last I checked, Intel isn't a competitor there.
i) You clearly haven't read the article. Reply
peternelson - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - link
a) well a lan gaming SERVER might have that much traffic going to EACH lan client.
My own interest is in computational cluster interconnect, or network rendering of graphics/3D. Such apps can use it.
Even a gamer playing Half life might want to be saving his DVB tv card stream onto a NAS storage device, or download some new linux distro in the background, thus multiple apps use the network interface. With virtualisation, such multiple uses could become more widespread.
c) Firewire and usb2 are both slow compared to ESATA. Firewire should be used for DV camcorders, and usb2 for peripherals like printers. Neither are preffered for disk as usb is HALF duplex, and firewire has troubles if you put multiple devices on one channel.
d) 2GBE would help my clustering and rendering. There may also be some future NAS with 2xgbe in teaming which would increase storage to pc bandwidth.
I would be using hardware firewall anyway, but I think in future a software workaround may come for that ie purposely written for the NF5.
f) agreed, but if ati can add more features externally, so can nvidia. I am just thinking of comparing what is built in.
g) gpus of ati and nvidia leapfrog each other on each subsequent launch. At the moment I personally am liking NV for the generation I would buy into.
h) True, Intel are unlikely to ever make a chipset for an amd processor. BUT I mean compare how good is usb, sataraid etc in Intel. If it is say double that means ATI and nvidia have scope to improve up to that level. Reply
Missing Ghost - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linke-SATA is half duplex too (like almost all hdd interfaces except SAS), but I agree that it's the way to go. Anybody that would use USB 2.0 as an HDD interface does not know much about HDD interfaces. Reply
Stele - Friday, June 02, 2006 - link
Anybody that would use USB 2.0 as an HDD interface does not know much about HDD interfaces.
or can't find an eSATA case where he/she is, and/or has other PCs/laptops on which the external HDD is also used but which don't have eSATA ports, and/or simply can't afford eSATA cases.
Careful with sweeping statements ;)
Having said that, USB is a bad choice for external HDDs. Until eSATA becomes more commonplace, Firewire is still arguably the better option in terms of overall price/performance/availability for now. Reply
lopri - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkI've raised this issue a couple times at the forum, but it didn't get much opinions - I'm guessing it's because of general lack of interest in AM2 platform. So I'd like to hear from AT staff - Wesley, Jared, Gary, anyone please.
Q.1 In comparison of Socket 939 vs Socket AM2, why are DDR400 DIMMs used for Socket 939 platforms? I understand you guys are using very fast timing (2-2-2) and 1GB sticks, but I think the majority of Socket 939 users still have 512MB sticks. More than anything, I doubt many AMD "enthusiasts" run their memory @200MHz/2-2-2. Think about how many memory/motherboard reviews AT have conducted. They are countless. TCCD sticks running 270MHz+ @2.5-3-3 timing are very common. Even decent timing DDR500 1GB sticks (like 2.5-3-2/3-3-2) can be purchased for very, very low prices. I myself have 2 Socket 939 rigs, and the main one has 2 x 1G Infineon sticks running DDR500/2.5-3-2-6, and the second one has 2 x 512MB TCC5 sticks running DDR600/2.5-3-3-7 (2.5-4-3-7 for 3D). Wouldn't it be fair and more realistic, if you compare more common DDR configuration to DDR2 configuration? We've had manufacturers pumping out PC3700, PC4000, PC4200, PC4800, etc. memory sets for years.
2. This boggs another very serious question. Have you check the prices of decent DDR2-800 sticks? I myself did for the first time today using RTPE, and they raised my eyebrows. Basically DDR2-800 @3-3-3 SPD (or even EPP) is non-existent. And DDR2-800 @4-4-4 sticks are incredibly expensive. Before, I never paid attention to DDR2 like many here, and just assumed they should be cheap considering how long they have been out there. Boy, was I wrong. I'd say sticks like what this review used (DDR2-800/3-3-3) would cost near $500. That's insane.
3. Also, I noticed in the review that even with such uber sticks - 2T?! What's up with that? Is it the AM2 CPU, or the RD580, or Cosair? In the past, AT's memory/motherboard reviews always checked the command rate for us along with overclocking. But I didn't find any explanation on this (just a small footnote(?) in a table) What is(are) the limitation(s)? Can you at least run DDR2-667 @1T or all current AM2 platform can only run 2T regardless of memory speed? If you can indeed run memory @1T with reduced speed, what'd be the trade-offs and performance difference?
Wesley's reviews are among my favorites on AT and in the past I used to be impressed by his clear (but through) explanation. But this review seems to have too many holes (whcich rather look intentional?) to just skip to next pages.
Other than my above rant (again, I believe there probably were reasons why the reviews should have been written the way it has been), this review is absolutley superb. I've been waiting for ATI's competitive chipset (NV is getting way too big) and hopefully they can make up their lateness with the quality. Personally I'm waiting for DFI's incarnation of RD580 AM2 motherboard.
Thanks again for hard work, Wesley. (and Jared/Gary)
Gary Key - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - link
Q.1 In comparison of Socket 939 vs Socket AM2, why are DDR400 DIMMs used for Socket 939 platforms?
We were doing our best to equalize the components and settings between the two platforms. This was done to show the absolute best performance of each platform during the initial chipset testing. As far as showing additional settings we can certainly look at those results in a separate article.
2. This boggs another very serious question. Have you check the prices of decent DDR2-800 sticks?
Our Corsair or OCZ PC8500 sticks will run at 3-3-3-9 2T at 800 with a small voltage increase to 2.2V easily although the memory is rated at 5-5-5-15 2T. I am working on a single versus dual channel DDR2 article at this time, cutting to the chase, single channel DDR2 with fast timings will provide up to 98% of the performance of dual channel DDR2 under the same conditions. It might be something to think about when looking at $350~$500 DDR2 2GB kits.
3. Also, I noticed in the review that even with such uber sticks - 2T?! What's up with that?
AMD introduced this platform with very conservative timings and tables for the board and memory suppliers to follow. We expect to see 1T timings at 800 later this year as AMD "massages" the memory controller. I ran tests at DDR2667 1T and they were basically the same or slightly worse than DDR2800 at 2T with all other settings being equal. The problem is we cannot run tRP and tRCD lower than 3 currently so any advantage of 1T is being wasted due to higher latencies. On a couple of our review boards we could also run DDR2800 at 4-4-4-15 1T but the 3-3-3-13/9 2T setting provided better memory bandwidth and lower latencies overall. We are still testing various memory settings as each board has been a little a different in optimizations made by each supplier.
We will have a separate review on EPP and Memory settings for AM2 in the near future.
Thanks... Reply
JarredWalton - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkIt's worth mentioning that 2-2-2-7 1T DDR-400 ends up having slightly worse latencies than 4-4-4-14 2T DDR2-800 -- and I intentionally chose latencies that were exactly double. With the faster base clock speed, DDR2-800 has identical net latencies (2 cycles @ 200 MHz ~= 4 cycles @ 400 MHz) but a higher bandwidth, putting it on top. If you throw 3-3-3-9 2T into the equation, DDR2 clearly comes out on top in overall performance. (You would basically need 1.5-1.5-1.5-4.5 1T DDR-400 memory to match it, which obviously doesn't exist.)
That doesn't mean we recommend you drop everything and go out and upgrade to socket AM2 *right now*, but if you're planning on buying a completely new system anyway you might as well go with the new platform. Our testing components are chosen in order to maximize longevity of the testing platform, and we once again don't recommend you go out and spend $500 on memory if you're building a typical PC. If you're planning on getting an FX-62 and a couple top-performing graphics cards to go with it, then you'll probably want the best memory available as well, in which case this Corsair RAM is great stuff.
Your comments earlier about memory speeds (i.e. why do we use DDR-400 with 2-2-2-7 1T timings) are basically looking at overclocked systems. We haven't really gotten into the details of how the systems overclock right now, but the availability of very fast DDR2 memory definitely changes things. My experience so far is that most of the AM2 motherboards are easily breaking 300 MHz HyperTransport speeds, and you can do all that without sacrificing memory timings.
Take care,
Jarred Walton Reply
lopri - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkMost of responses below my post didn't read my points. I'll be paitently waiting for AT staff's responses. In the meantime, you guys can check:
And the sub-reviews. If DDR400(2-2-2) are DDR600(2.5-3-3), I guess all those memory reviews on AT were wasting of time?
Ahe here is the DIMM sticks this review used for AM2 platform.
Oh that's not it. While searching, I found that decent DDR2-800 would cost >$250, and higher speed/same timing or same speed/timing sticks will (if you were to buy) dig a big hole in your packet. (think $500) Is that mainstream? What about the 1T issue??
The top of the line Socket 939 vs Socket AM2 comparison could be something like this:
2 x 512MB: DDR600 with 2.5-3-3-7 (less thanl $150) vs DDR2-800 with 3-3-3 ($500) or,
2 x 1GB: DDR500 with 2.5-3-2-7 (less than $200) vs DDR200-800 with 4-4-4 ($250)
Think about how mwny mobo/memory reviews we've seen here on AT? Why don't we use the knowledge we learned from those founding to compare Socket 939 and Socket AM2?
Spoelie - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkYou need a reality check. Lots of reviews have pointed out that the higher cost of TCCD memory and such is not worth the little extra performance, except if you're a serious overclocker that just really wants to run his mem on 1:1 and need the frequency headroom.
The common setup out there is not 270-2.5/3/2 or whatever, it is 200-2.5/3/3/8 or even CL3. Especially with the higher density memories like 1GB sticks. THAT is what most persons are running. If anything, the 2/2/2 200 are a bit too high end for the majority of people. And they're also reading AT. Reply
lopri - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkWhat you're saying is not totally out of my context. My main meat was towards the reviewers. Does anyone here own a DDR2-800/3-3-3? (Forget about TCCD 270MHz) DO you know how much they are? Indeed, such memory is not even officially out yet. But AT is using those sticks for AM2 system but at the same time for Socket 939 system they use more "pedestrian" DDR400/2-2-2. These days you can by 2 x 1GB DDR400/2-3-2 for under $200.
Wesley Fink - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkThe Corsair 8500 we used for testing is NOT rated at DDR2-800 3-3-3 - it is actually rated at DDR2-1066 5-5-5-15. The fact is it will run at DDR2-800 3-3-3 with voltage in the 2.1 to 2.2v range. So will most other recent dimms based on Micron memory chips. At stock voltage of 1.8v it runs about 4-4-4-13.
Where TCCD was capable of DDR400 2-2-2 and DDR500 2.5-2-3 or 2.5-3-3, Micron chips are currently the top-performing chips for DDR2. Infineon also has DDR2 chips that perform at lower latency and they are generally priced more reasonably.
Our memory articles ALWAYS compare performance at different memory speeds, but the fact is DDR400 was the fastest memory standard for DDR. Anything higher was overclocking. For DDR2, we have DDR2-800 as the current highest standard speed, though there will likely be a DDR2-1066 speed in the near future.
When we point out that the massive bandwidth increases in DDR2 on AM2 have almost no impact on performance, surely it is obvious that AM2 is not memory bandwidth starved. We found on DDR that the on-chip memory controller for AMD was very sensitive to latency improvements. In fact hte mad shrimp article unintentionally shows just that - gaming responded more to latency improvement than bandwidth improvement. That will also likely be the case in DDR2 EXCEPT with such a massive increase in bandwidth over DDR, latency may not matter nearly so much. We will take a closer look at htis in a future memory article. Reply
peternelson - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - link
Price of fast, low latency DDR2 will come down once AMD users start buying it in volume. That will come, so it is not unrealistic to benchmark now using fast expensive highend memory, because it won't be as expensive or uncommon in a month or two or three when boards are in most stores and consumers are buying them in bulk eg for "back to school/college" or "Christmas holidays season" which are when sales peak. Conroe should also improve the market availability for high performance DDR2 memory.
On the other hand there are reports of far east short-term wholesale prices of ddr2 generally having a rise because of more demand. Reply
Spoelie - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkhttp://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&ar...">http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&ar... Reply
peternelson - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - link
AMD are moving to AM2 with or without you.
Get over it.
You will not be able to get AMD's top performing new models if you stay with 939. Ditto the 65nm processors will also be on AM2.
939 WILL be phased out sooner or later, and with it goes DDR support.
Therefore it is somewhat irrelevant question to complain about the speed of the DDR. There won't BE any DDR support going forwards. Make the transition. Reply
lopri - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkDid you even read my post? What was I saying?
It has nothing to do with AM2 transition and I have nothing against AM2.
peternelson - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - link
Yes, the ddr comments relate to your Q1 section, not the DDR2 discussion.
Sorry if my response seemed overly critical. Reply
lopri - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkOn page 3, in the table
PCIe Speeds | 100 to 2000 in 1MHz Increments Reply
JarredWalton - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkAnd you thought LinkBoost was fast! ;)
Typo fixed, thanks. Reply
Stele - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkA main attraction of HD audio over AC'97 other than 100.1 setups is probably better sound quality. As such, perhaps Anandtech needs to develop a test method and/or utility with which to assess precisely this aspect of motherboards' sound subsystems. Low CPU utilisation is well and good but ultimately it's reaching the point where these figures are fairly meaningless, as this review underscored.
Instead, besides just testing CPU utilisation, Anandtech could test/measure characteristics such as SNR ratio, THD at a reference frequency etc. at the output ports. The test can then be rounded off with subjective hearing tests through reference speakers or headphones, e.g. for irritating crossover noise from the mouse (A7N8X anyone?) or some other EMI source, and so on.
That way, we can judge if a motherboard manufacturer's implementation and motherboard design are sound (pun intended) because ultimately, it's about what you hear, not see; an 8.1 with terrific speakers, built in DTS/AC3/etc and other paper-spec niceties isn't going to cut it if the codec was, say, jammed right next to the CPU PWM controller with barely any grounding. Reply
Gary Key - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - link
Instead, besides just testing CPU utilisation, Anandtech could test/measure characteristics such as SNR ratio, THD at a reference frequency etc. at the output ports. The test can then be rounded off with subjective hearing tests through reference speakers or headphones, e.g. for irritating crossover noise from the mouse (A7N8X anyone?) or some other EMI source, and so on.
We are still debating our "subjective" results and comments for the audio section. However, at some point this summer we will expand our testing to include additional testing outside the CPU utilization and game results. Reply
Stele - Friday, June 02, 2006 - linkSubjective is, understandably, subjective. Thus such results are bound to differ depending on the person assessing the product as well as the circumstances under which the test was done. IMHO, it should therefore only play a small part in the extended test, complementing the objective, measured figures which should play the dominant role in an extended audio test.
Indeed, accurately measuring such performance characteristics (SNR, THD, no-signal background noise level) would probably be more useful because even if the subjective part of the test is completely left out, the figures would generally be a sufficient gauge of the quality of the components and implementation (circuit design, manufacture etc).
Having said that, the subjective opinions do give the review a human perspective and a broader picture which numbers alone may not fully convey - another good example being noise level measurements. Again, nice to have but won't be fatal without it.
Just my 2 cents' :) Reply
Beenthere - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - link...and you can be certain that production mobos will NOT perform as well as the reference mobo. Expect Asus to use a hack design, DFI to have a pretty good design less proper ports, Sapphire to not have a clue at copying the ATI reference mobo, Abit to talk shitza but not deliver, etc. and the prices will be sky high. Ya gotta wonder how much longer people are going to buy crap mobos just because they have a good chipset? Reply
Stele - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkPerhaps it's because there're aren't many seriously viable choices - if any - other than the 'crap mobo' brands you listed? The manufacturers know this too, and rest in the relative comfort of the knowledge that since no brand's perfect, buyers aren't likely to suddenly all jump ship in a hurry. They're probably expecting people to grumble and complain, as always, but buy from one of them anyway... as always. Reply
xsilver - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkDoes ATI have license to product intel chipsets either now or in the future?
or was their some exclusivity when nvidia made their cross licensing agreement? Reply
Gary Key - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - link
Does ATI have license to product intel chipsets either now or in the future?
ATI has been producing Intel compatible chipsets for a few years now and we should see a "RD580" type chipset for Conroe later this summer. Reply
fzkl - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkWhy are the setups using different hard drives? The ATI system has a 16MB buffer whereas the Nvidia system has an 8 MB buffer. Does that contribute to any performance difference? Reply
peternelson - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkI spotted that too. I imagine the HD might change the PCMark result. Reply
Gary Key - Thursday, June 01, 2006 - linkWes's original hard drive met an untimely death during testing. However, the chart is incorrect as the Maxtor drive has a 16MB cache also and in our IPEAK tests the two drives are very comparable if not the same. We did not see any differences in the game scores and PCMark was off about 20 points, well within the margin of error for testing for this application. Reply