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AMD Radeon HD 4670: Ruling from Top to Bottomby Derek Wilson on 9/10/2008 12:00 AM EST
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- GPUs
90 Comments
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srikar115 - Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - linki completely agree with the review ...i myself use a 4670 and frn has a 9600gso ..the parameters shown here are 100% correct ....also this article elaborates the upperhand of 4670 over 96gso/gt
http://pcgamersera.com/category/4670-vs-9600gt/">http://pcgamersera.com/category/4670-vs-9600gt/ Reply
dellprecision380 - Saturday, July 09, 2011 - linkplz tell me that 4670 will work on 375 watt psu and pci x16?i have intel 955xcs board plz tell me i want to buy this card Reply
Jogi - Tuesday, November 18, 2008 - linkJust wanna add a few words about market situation in such "strange" (regarding to price policy) region as Eastern Europe, especially Ukraine, Russia.
The rebate program isn't available here (in Ukraine) nor in Russia. Don't know how about Poland. Here are the prices for mainstream VC:
Radeon 4670 - about 100$
GeForce 9600GSO - about 120$
GeForce 9600GT - about 150$
As I said before, there is no rebate program available here, buying something on the ebay... Well, I can't trust my money to someone, who is living a thousands of miles from me :) Reply
evonitzer - Thursday, September 25, 2008 - linkGood review. I appreciate how you focused on 1280x1024 (as opposed to some people who wanted 1920x1200?!) as that is the monitor I'm still rockin. However, I'm curious how the 4670 performs in The Witcher with AA, regardless of how the 9500GT does. I like this game and wonder what kind of performance hit I might expect were I to pick up the card. It would appear that nobody is watching the comments anymore since it broke down into fanboy/retarded complaining, but I'd like to know. Also, please no "answers" from others who haven't actually run the game but want to speculate. I can perform such speculation on my own, and already have. Reply
Maz - Thursday, September 18, 2008 - linkPNY stock 8800gt is at 110 dollars now... just get that if you're on a budget to be real about it... Reply
lemonadesoda - Sunday, September 14, 2008 - linkI thought the review was great. Thanks for being so thorough in your analysis vis-a-vis older cards. That's exactly the comparison people want to make... not which current generation card is 5% better than another... but how much they gain from upgrading an older card to the latest generation.
But there are two points left open:
1./ Performance at 1600x1200 or 1920x1200 which is the resolution that PEOPLE WHO READ THESE BENCHMARKS are interested in. I can guarantee you NOBODY is interested in the 800x600 figures you give. Nobody considering a performance part works at that resolution. But you left a big knowledge gap for the screen resolutions that most people with enthusiast PCs have: 1600x and 1920x1200.
2./ You say there is no win with the 4670 over 3870. For a few $ more you get a few % more performance, therefore 3870 QED. Not so. Many people are interested in silent machines or cool HTPC. The power usage figures between the 3870 vs. 4670 warrant 4670 winning in every case. I'm sure you can OC the 4670 to 3870 performance and still have a cheaper to run machine with less heat and silent.
Otherwise, very informative review. Thanks. Reply
Nil Einne - Sunday, February 15, 2009 - linkActually no one is interested in such resolutions with a budget card. If you get a budget card, you accept that your likely to play at relatively low resolutions. You'd have to be stupid to get a budget card and then try to play at 1920x1200. In case it isn't obvious, I personally hate it when stupid reviewers, perhaps insipired by equally stupid commentators test resolutions that no one is ever going to play with and then complain the card is too slow. I DO NOT care if the card can only manage 10 FPS at 1920x1200. It's completely irrelevant and doesn't help me in deciding which card to buy. Reply
Maz - Thursday, September 18, 2008 - link1920x1200??? People who are truly interested in those resolutions really don't read budget card reviews to find out if the latest games will run well cause they know the answer.
What is it with people who wanna drop 500 dollars on a high res monitor then buy an 80 dollar video card? It's like putting four thousand dollar wheels on your 93 honda. Reply
Ajay - Sunday, September 14, 2008 - linkDon't most people game on a wide screen monitor nowadays (high end games, like Crysis)? So why is the final comparison is done at 1280x1024??
Really, I'm just wondering.
Nice review in any case - thx!
wvh - Friday, September 12, 2008 - linkWhen the HD 4650 is released and reviewed, I'd be interested in a comparison between integrated solutions and these lower-end cards regarding power consumption, performance and price... Are there any plans by AMD to integrate one of these lower-spec cards into a motherboard? Reply
sskk - Friday, September 12, 2008 - linkOMG, my first thought was this is a look alike site and I've been duped. I mean no way this review belong to anandtech, this review is good for the "epic failed" site, PLEASE PULL IT NOW and write a new one, from scratch I might add. Reply
xeutonmojukai - Thursday, September 11, 2008 - linkI'm having a nice time imagining these in a triple crossfire config with a DDR2, X48 mobo, overclocked, liquid cooled (finally, a somewhat-gaming card that can use cookie-cutter water blocks), and probably a Q9300 thrown in. Something tells me that could actually make a great midrange system. Space for dual HDTV tuners and a PCI-E sound card too? Sign me up! Reply
djfourmoney - Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - linkIn HEXUS' review its equal to a HD4850 in Crossfire. Since triple isn't common I would say that you would pick up some additional performance and distance yourself even further from HD4850.
Honestly that is what I am planning. Not triple but dual HD 4670. I ordered a Sapphire 512mb HD4670 from NE and UPS bungled and lied about the delivery. It should be here tomorrow.
But two HD 4670 1GB on a 790GX with a 5000+ BE for now and a Phenom later, plus my two TV tuners (ATI TV Wonder 650 and Cat's Eye 150 PCI) on my Gateway 24" monitor I envision fairly powerful multi-media PC that will play every game on the market.
GRID with AAx4 on Ultra @1920x1200 - 33fps according to Legit Review
ATI's goal was 30fps with current games, I'd say Mission Accomplished
HEXUS saw increase of 80% over one card in many games including GRID, Crysis and COD4.
So I'm with you man, two are better than one when they are affordable as this and take less power to run.
I just wish mine was delivered on time, no thanks to UPS...
djfourmoney - Thursday, September 11, 2008 - linkThose resolutions are on TV's and most of the public still separates their PC viewing from TV viewing. Only gadget freaks, geeks and tech nuts are even doing the HTPC thing and have their PC's connected to their DLP, Projector, LCD or Plasma.
So there's some use for that info, but c'mon Tom's hardware has covered the whole resolution issue before and breaks it down between say 1280x768 (720p) and 1920x1200 (1080p) is something like 17% more pressure put on a GPU to render images.
But anyway....
Yes a 9600GT is faster, but by how much and does it really make a difference in gameplay?
I say NO it doesn't not even a little bit. From 30 to 60 that's a fairly big step in performance, but if your talking like in another review 50.3 vs 47.0 in GRID @1280x1024 AAx4 that's NOTHING and only for Gamers to argue about, which I won't stoop that level, its immature for one thing. Its a my dick is bigger than yours nonsense, when it serves the same purpose, its strictly a men's argument and doesn't pass the giggle test with most people.
At the END of the day, guess what?
Even at $95 the 9600GSO is roughly the same performance if not slightly less in every bench I have seen thus far and its $16 more.
Even at $99 the 9600GT is slightly faster in some benches, even in others, some games are optimized for Nvidia GPU's, others ATI, GRID for ATI, Crysis for Nvidia. Nevermind the HD4670 is faster than 2900XT, HD3850 256MB, 2600XT, HD3650, the last two cheaper than the HD4670.
Its target was the 9500GT no matter how the media and Nvidia want to SPIN THIS. It crushes it, totally and completely and its not a argument of a difference of 2-3fps, its more like 10-15, even 20fps in some cases, you can't even play some games with the 9500GT, it won't reach 20fps in many games, even at mild resolutions.
In fact saving $19 over the 9600GT buys -
Splinter Cell, Company of Heroes and a few other games on Direct2Drive
Flatout 2, Midnight Outlaw - 6 hours till sunup, NFS: Pro Street, Jurced 2 HIN
For true gamers you more than likely have many of these games, already. The last game I bought for my PC was Pro Race Driver....
So FOR ME and people shouldn't let other people tell them what they should buy if they don't totally agree.
I can pick up this card, plus GTR2/GT Legends for $19 at Fry's and I also wanted to pick up GRID and NFS: Pro Street. Wow $140 spent and I even have enough for another HDD.
Value is value and this product is about VALUE.
strikeback03 - Thursday, September 11, 2008 - link[quote]Its target was the 9500GT no matter how the media and Nvidia want to SPIN THIS. [/quote]
Umm, they never target a specific card, they target a price point. At $80, the 4670 is clearly the winner, partly because there is no competition as the 9500GT has rightly dropped below $70.
[quote] So FOR ME and people shouldn't let other people tell them what they should buy if they don't totally agree. [/quote]
Obviously. Less conspiracy-minded people might see though that they are pointing out that for the cost of a few lunches at whatever your fast-food restaurant of choice is, you can pick up substantially better performance Reply
djfourmoney - Thursday, September 11, 2008 - linkOther than the fact that the CIA is behind JFK and the FBI is behind many murders of people including MLK and 9/11 is a total and complete LIE, I'm not a conspiracy theorist.
I rather save money on the product than to save money on food. If I can buy two things with the same amount of money I rather do that.
Happy Meals vs $19 Games, hell I found NFS: Pro Street for $9 at Best Buy and GTR2/GT-L for $9 as well. I'll be busy for the next few months...
Hrel - Thursday, September 11, 2008 - linkAnandtech, can you please start running your benchmarks in widescreen resolutions; that's where the industry is. 1280x800,1366x768, 1440x900, 1680x1050, 1920x1080. That would be great.
Also, it seems like this card, run at 1280x800 with AA on would almost always outperform the 3870; and with the low power requirements it would be great as a laptop add on, using the expressbox. I'd love it if you could do a current article on external notebook graphics, even if it was only using the expressbox since I don't think any other exteranl graphics are currently for sale; I could be wrong though.
Anyway, this looks like a great card, and a positive step in incresing the lowest common demoninator for graphics performance; in 5 years they can design games to run on this card on min settings and low resoluiton; while tuning the setting to go all the way up to fully utilize whatever hardware is out then. ATI, thank you for the 4000 series. Reply
frozentundra123456 - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkI think this is quite an appealing card for the price and power usage. It is much better than the 9500GT or the HD3650 which are the closest competitors in terms of power usage. It will also blow away the HD2600 pro that I bought a few months ago at a similar price point, and has the same power supply recommendations. To me this is progress: better performance per watt and per dollar.
Granted, spending about 50 dollars more could buy a much more powerful card, but it would also use more power, be bigger, and require a better power supply with an external power connector.
I am wondering what the HD4650 and possible 4400 series cards will be like. Considering the low price and power comsumption of the HD4670, I really question the need for any lower line cards. Reply
TheJian - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkYou should have just ran it against a 9600GT. When you can get one for $95 at newegg (2 of them at that price) this article is pointless. They even have a huge selection of them for $99. Just tell us the GSO sucks, is pointless, and that the GT beats them all for $95. Could have saved a lot of moaning and groaning. :) The GT should have at least been in the article because they have a ton of them below $100 at newegg alone (like 10 or so).
For $15 difference, it seems foolish to buy a $80 4670. Even more dumb to even suggest I'd buy a $100+ GSO model when I can absolutely dominate it for $5-15 less. Buy a 9600GT...geez. Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkJust something to consider in relation to antialiasing:
"Small rabbit hole here: the real long-term solution to image quality is not AA, it is increasing DPI (dots per inch). Decreasing the size of a pixel will do a lot more to make an image look smooth than any amount of antialiasing could. What's the analog in the real world? Compare those duplo and lego castles to a sand castle. Many more grains of sand that are much smaller mean a very very smooth appearance with no AA needed. Display technology has severely fallen short over the past few years and we still don't have desktop LCD panels that really compete with top of the line CRTs from 7 or 8 years ago."
There's truth in that, but you also have to consider a few other things. One of the major problems with high DPI displays is that there are MANY programs that don't recognize DPI well, so you get itty bitty text that's practically illegible. I run a 30" LCD, and at 2560x1600 you get a .25mm pixel pitch. In comparison to other normal desktop LCDs, that's the smallest pixel pitch you can currently get (DPI is 101). It's about the same as a 17" 1440x900 laptop display, only instead of sitting 18 inches away on my lap, mine sits about three feet away. Let me tell you, it *does* make a difference.
There are plenty of websites for example that for a specific font size, and by default it's way too tiny for my eyes. Even MS Word has problems, so that I usually run at a 150% magnification. Also, those beloved flash movies - and movies in general - that come at 512x384 or 640x480 are hard to watch.
Very high DPI displays sound like a great idea - and they'll become more practical at some point - but right now I think .27 to .30 mm dot pitch is the sweet spot for most eyes. It's one of the reasons I think 27" LCDs are often a better choice for people than 30" (of course you can run the 30" display at both 2560x1600 and 1920x1200, although you get some blurriness at non-native resolutions). Those with better eyes may not find it a problem, but personally I don't think ultra-high DPI provides a great user experience right now. Reply
strikeback03 - Thursday, September 11, 2008 - linkPlus, there is the fact that CRTs blurred everything. The LCD image is so much sharper (at native resolution) that jaggies are much more apparent. Reply
razor2025 - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - link4670 looks to be a great low-mid range card. I've been wanting to get a slimline PC, but the current choices in low-profile GPUs are still lacking. Sure there's the 9600GT low-profile, but that requires 400watt PSU and it's already a hot card in full-length form. If there's a 4670 low-profile, I'd buy it in a heartbeat as long as they keep it under $80.
As for the review itself, it was terribly written. AT articles seems to be on a decline in recent times. Horrible graph choices and questionable writings. Also, a entire page dedicated to talking about a competitor's product. How low can we go AT? Oh and when can we have a decent motherboard roundup? You know, the one that was promised since last summer (when 690G came out)? Reply
Pale Rider - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - link<<<<<< Now, if we could get a 3870 for about $100 (a 9600 GT fits the bill here, as 3870 cards can't be found for that price), >>>>>>>
This is just flat out misleading information. Reply
djfourmoney - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkOkay honesty is the best policy time -
When a co-worker wanted to purchase a new PC, he consulted me. I told him to "future proof" himself and get a Quad Core. Being a parent of 2 children and the only one working in the household, he can't afford to upgrade every 2-3 years like hardcore gamers, power users, overclockers.
Now its your typical $900-1000 Dell and of course he could have gotten equal performance for much less if he DIY'ed it. Let's be honest people, when you consider there's still an intimidation factor with any electronics let alone PC's which seem to crash on their own (of course that's not always true either) you can understand that most people value pre-builts and being able to call up Dell tech support if something happens.
At least when benchmarking, they should use not only the most powerful system they can find, but use one that a typical end-user would have and that's slow speed dual cores and even late of era single core CPU's like the Pent D and AMD 64's.
I bought my Dell back in 2003, I didn't build a new system until I found I couldn't get more out of my old system, that was about 8 months ago (2008). So five years between systems and if wanted to watch HD content the regular way, my old Dell was just fine the way it was and did play HD@720p without issue.
This new system is middle of the road in terms of power and crushes most PC's between $600-700 available from HP/Compaq or Dell (3.1Ghz 5000+ BE).
My point is, that most people don't have PC's with $200-$1200 GPU's and couldn't fathom spending $500 for a video card, not even $200, $100 is the threshold for most people and that's pushing it, only 20somethings and teens would even think its "reasonable" for gaming performance to spend $100 on a card.
I'll go ahead and do what all these other sites aren't doing, I'll give you a user review of the HD 4670 on a basic system (Dell 530) on a 19" LCD, depends when I get one. Currently only New Egg has it and I won't be able to order until Friday.
If you have a modern CPU, with only a 128-bit bus, I doubt an older dual core or even a single core would bottleneck performance. It really depends on what games you play. FPS are more GPU dependent than CPU. Racing games because of physics and AI tend to use a fair amount of CPU power, which is why GRID recommends 3.0Gz single cores but on Bit Tech they tried it with both a single core and dual core and it clearly ran faster with a dual core CPU.
tacoburrito - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkSeriously, does people really expect a $79 card to perform anywhere near the level of a $180 card, i.e. the 4850? AMD would be stupid to do that. If that happens, who would want to buy the 4850 or 4870? AMD crippled the 4670's performance for a reason, i.e. not to cannabalize the sales of its higher end cards. Reply
The0ne - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkThis article could be one that girls/women would avoid. Just seeing the term "epic fail" is already a turn off for me. Just seem so childish and in the same terminology I guess, childish for a review. Reply
Laura Wilson - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkok i'm a girl/woman and my favorite part of this article was the term "epic fail," but perhaps i'm stunted in my fifth grade humor... Reply
Pale Rider - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkI agree. What are we in the 5th grade? I bet the neffers in OT love it. Reply
Pale Rider - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkOnce again AT has an ATI review that has an entire page reserved for nVidia product information. Every ATi review we get from AT seems to have an entire page dedicated to nVidia products. Funny how the nVidia reviews NEVER have entire pages dedicated to ATi products. Reply
KikassAssassin - Thursday, September 11, 2008 - linkThat's because with every ATI release, nVidia scrambles to put out a new (usually re-hashed) part as an answer to ATI's new product, so the review sites naturally compare the two cards together. ATI doesn't have OCD about putting out a direct answer to every single product their competitor releases like nVidia does, so review articles on nVidia products don't usually have anything new from ATI to talk about.
You can't blame the review sites for this one. They're just reporting on what the companies are doing. Instead, blame nVidia for saturating the market with a ridiculous number of redundant products. Reply
Pale Rider - Thursday, September 11, 2008 - linkYes I can blame them. Those nVidia products are featured in their own reviews WITHOUT ATI product information.
nVidia has AT in their pocket. Reply
whatthehey - Thursday, September 11, 2008 - linkThe great thing about accusations like this is that there's nothing Anandtech can say in response. It's just a complete bullshit assertion made by fanboys (or idiots, take your pick).
I look at the 9500 GT and I read, "This is not an exciting launch. The 9500 GT doesn't offer much more performance than the 8600 GT it replaces." I see charts with the 3850 and 3650 included. I read comments about how both ATI and NVIDIA have released pretty weak hardware at the bottom.
I read the 4870X2 article and I see sensible explanations about how Crossfire doesn't always work, the card is expensive, but when everything gels it's a very fast solution. Where's the bias there? Where's the "lies"? I'll tell you what, I've got my Crossfire system and I can say without a doubt that there are plenty of games that don't scale with CF. Especially new releases where ATI hasn't had a chance to update the drivers. Quite a few titles require you to run with CF disabled until the next driver update, or else performance is horrible. (Grid is a perfect example. I think I got about 3 FPS with Crossfire 3870 at launch, but around 30-40 FPS when I disabled CF.)
Or what about the totally NVIDIA biased review of the GTX 280? "As impressive as the GT200 is, the GeForce GTX 280 is simply overpriced for the performance it delivers. It is NVIDIA's fastest single-card, single-GPU solution, but for $150 less than a GTX 280 you get a faster graphics card with NVIDIA's own GeForce 9800 GX2. The obvious downside to the GX2 over the GTX 280 is that it is a multi-GPU card and there are going to be some situations where it doesn't scale well, but overall it is a far better buy than the GTX 280." And it's a good thing they don't mention ATI in NVIDIA reviews, like this statement: "The GeForce GTX 260 is a bit more reasonable. At $400 it is generally equal to if not faster than the Radeon HD 3870 X2, and with no other NVIDIA cards occupying the $400 pricepoint it is without a competitor within its own family. Unfortunately, 8800 GT SLI is much cheaper and many people already have an 8800 GT they could augment."
The fact that ATI is second on a lot of launches is the cause for the comparisons that are done. (GT200 came before the HD 4800 launch, so it was compared to 3870X2; 4670 followed 9500; plenty more examples that I won't bother to list) What about the "totally anti-AMD" article praising the 4850 and 4870: "The Radeon HD 4870 and 4850 are both solid values and cards we would absolutely recommend to readers looking for hardware at the $200 and $300 price points." That makes sense, and the conclusions in this article make sense to me as well.
For the price, you get a decent card, but there's no denying the 4670 will struggle in quite a few games, particularly at higher resolutoisn. I can't imagine running anything less than a 22" 1680x1050 display these days, and the only people running 19" LCDs are already using older hardware. Once you go widescreen, you'll never want to go back... at least not until you encounter one of the titles that refuses to include WS support.
So sure, if you're limping along with older hardware this makes sense. If you don't care too much about gaming performance, it's a great HTPC card, but do most people actually use HTPCs!? I think it's just a really vocal minority that chooses to bitch about HTPC issues, because I'd take my DVR over any of the PC solutions for $10 a month and the ease of use and integration! I can't remember the last time anyone in my family asked me for help trying to connect their PC to a TV - HD or otherwise. The real truth is that the only people that really need discrete GPUs are enthusiasts and gamers. If you're a gamer, get something faster for a bit more money. If you're like Anand and building a $50000 home theater, I suppose it's just too much to consider that extra money for more performance? If I had a nice setup for watching movies, I'm certain I'd want to use it to play games on occasion as well. Reply
strikeback03 - Thursday, September 11, 2008 - linkThe 9600 GSO has been around for at least 3-4 months, just was not exciting enough to warrant mention. Look on the bright side - every GPU AMD has released recently has been important enough to get a full review, while we have rehashed NVIDIA GPUs that are not mentioned until they compete with something from AMD. Reply
superflex - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkThanks for another biased anti AMD review Anand. The 4870 and 4870 X2 reviews must have been your template.
The reviews on this site are becoming a joke. Graphs and text dont match, bias is evident, and conclusions are skewed.
I agree using a quad core CPU is stupid when evaluating a <$80 GPU. No one who spends that kind of jack on a CPU, mobo and memory is going to cheap out on the GPU.
The test system ought to be someting the average joe would have. Not Anand's dreamy Intel (read not AMD) system. Reply
themadmilkman - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkUsing a quad core CPU isn't stupid, it's good methodology. The whole idea is to try and avoid any external limitations on the card's performance, so that the only change we see IS the card's performance.
Seriously, this is a technical website. If you don't want to see things done by the appropriate technical method, go read cnet. Reply
geok1ng - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkAgain the very same crap: NVIDIA selling the same hardware with a new name.
Maybe seeing the market share going away at the top, mid and low end market they will start to offers us better and cheaper cards.
As for ATI: excellent pricing for a great card! Now how about putting some money on the drivers division?! All ATI cards need better drivers ASAP! Reply
MrPickins - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkThe real reason I'm waiting for this card is for my HTPC so I can use HDMI for video and multichannel audio, in a low power card. :D Reply
helldrell666 - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - link........... Reply
Spacecomber - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkIs it safe to assume that all the cards that were discussed in this review (not just the 4670 and 4650, but also the cards they were compared to) are equal in their video acceleration capabilities? Maybe this is a given, but I wasn't sure.
It seems like the capabilities of these lower end cards for doing things besides 3D gaming become more important, since they aren't really of much interest to a dedicated gamer. Something like a HTPC seems like a more likely home for one of these cards, or a general purpose home computer that might get pressed into service for some home video editing (though I'm assuming CPU power is what still counts the most for this sort of work). Reply
tripomarto - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linki really dont understand why you benchmark a 80$ gpu in a system with a 1000$ cpu, may be you can make 3 reference system, one for high, one for medium, and one for low budget, it may reflect the real performance that people buying this card will see... Reply
Spivonious - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkThe real advantage to this card over the similarly-priced 3870 is that it doesn't require any extra power connectors. I imagine it also runs much cooler, therefore not needing a loud cooling solution.
Are there any fanless versions of this card in the works? It seems like it would be fantastic for the casual gamer who doesn't want a screaming beast of a machine. Reply
mczak - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkis obviously wrong in the chart, should be 192mm^2 or some such (118mm^2 could be the size of rv635 maybe). Reply
toyota - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkits 146 mm. http://www.firingsquad.com/media/article_image.asp...">http://www.firingsquad.com/media/article_image.asp... Reply
toyota - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkoops I think you were talking about the 3870 in that chart... Reply
nafhan - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkIn case anyone else is curious, here's a rundown of current lowest prices (from Newegg, shipping not included):
3650 $40
3850 $75
3870 $90
4850 $150
So, as long as 4670's slot in below $75 they should sell fairly well. If MSRP is $79, that shouldn't be a problem.
Interestingly, it looks like they are starting to put 768MB of RAM on some 9600 GSO's. Not to interesting though, since that jacks it up to the price of an 8800GT... Reply
reader1 - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkI'm looking for a low power Intel C2D motherboard. What board did you use for the power consumption tests? It says an Intel G45 in the article but neither of your test bed boards are G45 boards.
computerfarmer - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkDoes it CrossFire?
Good Card for the money. Reply
derek85 - Saturday, September 13, 2008 - linkYes it does Reply
npp - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkI don't care if the review is biased or not, just don't have so much time to analyze every single word or sentence and extraxt the bias towards nVidia from it... I found it useful, and the 4670 seems a very, very good card for its money - and considering the already low power consumption of the 3850, the 4670 is an instant HTPC favourite, consuming even less. By the way, I never thought of sub-100$ cards as of something more than just a IGP extension, gaming performance is by no means the decisive factor here. If it can run passively, accelerate H.264 and handle some basic graphic tasks, than it's fine for me. If you can play some games with it - you got a nice bonus. Reply
Gastrian - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkA few of my famlymembers and myself were looking to upgrading our PCs over the next six months so I've been keeping an eye on new hardware, especially graphic cards.
We are only looking at budget systems and seeing the benchmarks for the 4670, especially Crysis, at that pricepoint and I was about to recommend it to my family based on the review. I re-read the article and noticed your test setup, the Q9770 alone costs almost £1000!
I know the point of the article maybe to compare the various GPUs as fairly as possible but these aren't real world figures because I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone in the real world who will use a budget GPU with an ultra high-end CPU.
Myself, like most sane people, would couple this GPU with an entry level Celeron, Core2 or AMD X2 CPU and these charts don't say how much real world performance I'm going to get on this card.
While I'm not expecting to get Crysis playable on the low end I am interested in the likes of Diablo3, Starcraft2 and Dawn of War2 and am severely disappointed at the lack of RTS games in your benchmarks, especially on the mid to budget reviews as these are generally the games you'll get played on lower systems. Reply
djc208 - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - link"I know the point of the article maybe to compare the various GPUs as fairly as possible but these aren't real world figures because I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone in the real world who will use a budget GPU with an ultra high-end CPU."
The testing is to compare what the card is capable of. If you pair it with lower end components then you introduce more variability into the mix. Is the game CPU or GPU limited at that resolution? Since no current games really use a quad core CPU then matching the number of cores is less important than matching the architecture and speed of the test CPU.
Plus if you run similar tests on your system with your CPU you can use this data to figure out where you're best off spending upgrade money in the future. If you can't get the same FPS at the same resolution then a CPU upgrade is going to help more than another GPU upgrade.
Gastrian - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkI should have worded it slightly different, when we upgrade we buy a new base unit and pass the older unit on to someone else so comparing it in that way wouldn't work as it will be a new CPU and GPU.
The entire base units we were pricing up were half the price of the CPU used in this test and those base units include the AMD 4850 on a DDR2 motherboard.
If you look at some of the Phenom reviews running Crysis (latest CPU reviews with benchmarks), they don't include the Q9770 which is running at 3.2GHz but do have the E8400 3.0GHz intel chip beating a X2 5600+ 2.8GHz AMD chip by almost 20FPS at 1024x768 at medium settings and the Intel chip is £50 more expensive.
The review says this GPU will play Crysis but if you put it with a CPU aimed at the same market segment it won't, therefore the benchmarks paint completely the wrong picture as the 4650 may not be suitable for a budget system and you'd be better off paying the extra and getting a 4850. Reply
Spacecomber - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkIf a 4650 is significantly throttled by the CPU in a system, it usually won't make a big difference to go to a faster GPU to try to get around this. At the lower resolutions, they'll both be waiting on the CPU. In other words, neither card is in an environment where it can fully utilize its capabilities. Reply
toyota - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkthat doesnt even make sense. you dont go with a faster gpu to overcome cpu limitations. if you play Crysis on medium at 1024 with a really slow cpu adding a fast gpu wont make much differnce. it will allow you to bump up settings and res though. Reply
Gastrian - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkI wouldn't call an AMD X2 5600+ a "really slow CPU", especially for about £55.
It specifically states in the article;
"Additionally, for the 4670, only two of these numbers are less than playable and one is borderline. In general, the 4670 shows that at 1280x1024, it can handle all the current games you might throw at it. In the tests where AA is enabled, the 4670 shows that it has an added advantage, which matters much more at low resolutions than high ones."
The 9600GSO is a rebranded 8800GS which is a slightly underpowered 8800GT.
In the Crysis benchmark with the Q9770 the 9600GSO gets over 60FPS at 1024 x 768. In the same benchmark for the Phenom X3 review, with a slightly more powerful GPU, the AMD X2 5600+ only gets 45 FPS, thats 75% of the performance. At the 1280x1024 Crysis benchmark with 4xAA the 4670 is only able to get around 30fps, now if we apply the 75% performance of the X2 5600+ the AMD 4670 is only getting just over 20fps which is not exactly playable.
By using the Q9770 in the review Anandtech have given all these cards a performance increase they wouldn't get in the real world. This is okay in most reviews as you are just comparing cards but at the bottom end you are also making sure that they don't go below a certain level of performance, this review shows them being above that line while actual users may experience something completely different. Reply
derek85 - Saturday, September 13, 2008 - linkThe main point of using a fast CPU is to eliminate the possible bottleneck from CPU, thus comparing purely the performance of GPU. If you use a CPU that would introduce a bottleneck during benchmark you would get same FPS from multiple GPUs not knowing which one is better, and this defeats the whole purpose of a review. Reply
pattycake0147 - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkI'd just like to let you know that I feel the same way you do. IMO there should be a lower end CPU (X2 5600) to show some numbers closer to what you or I might experience, as well as a higher end part (Q9770) to show a less CPU limited environment. Unfortunately AT doesn't cater to those of us who would like some more realistic numbers. Reply
JarredWalton - Thursday, September 11, 2008 - linkIt has nothing to do with "realistic"... it's all about time. If it takes late nights just to get one set of numbers finished, doubling the number of tests means you'll miss the launch dates of pretty much every new piece of hardware - or you'll cut tests to make it. There are only so many hours in a week, and that's often what you have to complete testing of a new GPU.
Besides, if a top-end CPU to avoid bottlenecks isn't good enough and you add one other CPU, then someone else wants yet another point of reference, and it just goes from there. We have CPU articles where the GPU is kept constant so you can see CPU scaling, and we have GPU articles where the CPU is constant so you can see GPU scaling. Most games are GPU limited, particularly at high detail settings, but I'd still go with a faster CPU if you can afford it. Reply
Gastrian - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkBut that is the environment its going to be placed in.
All this review shoes is that a Q9770 can play Crysis with very little concern for the GPU and that the 4670 is better than a 9600GSO but that ignores the issue that neither the 4670 or 9600GSO may play games.
Building on a budget I have to ask myself a simple question, is it worth spending xx amount on a GPU that will give me a performance boost but not still enough to adequately play games or do I spend the same amount on a more powerful CPU and stick with an IGP like the AMD 780G. Neither will play games BUT the more powerful CPU will be more useful in better areas. This doesn't answer that question and I'm still none the wiser as to whether to buy this card or not. Reply
djfourmoney - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkI agree the conclusion is a bit like sour grapes.
I had a HD3870 for $119, that cheap IMHO no rebate needed to get that price but after tax it grew to $129 and for the amount of performance I got for that price, I was impressed -
GRID Demo 1.1 50+fps@1920x1200 Ultra AAx2
However, I had to remove a TV Tuner card to use it. So I took it back, I like to watch local HD broadcast of NCCA College Football and NFL Football too much to leave that tuner out.
Yes I could go with a 9600GT single slot (No GSO here) for $99-150 on New Egg
Or a Sapphire HD3850 for $94
But the HD4670 is $79 and shouldn't be more than that, even at B&M's and might be slightly less online depending on bulk purchases by companies like TigerDirect and New Egg.
It fits the bill, yes I have to take down my default resolution from 1920x1200 in GRID to say 1280x768 which is 720p and at that resolution it should play at 50-60fps on High, AAx2. GRID looks so good even at medium detail, I don't mind turning it down a notch or two just to make it run faster. If I can run it 60fps at 1920x1200 in Medium, that's plenty for me.
I'm not uninformed or uneducated about PC Products, far from it. I know the HD4850 1GB from Sapphire would be highly ideal in my system but I don't want to spend $200 for a card, okay? Why should I hold myself to the standards of somebody else when I'm not a hardcore gamer/overclocker at heart, just somebody that wants to play a cool game like GRID at a decent frame rate and detail. While it would be great to get more performance, you would have to go up to a HD3870 to really out distance the HD4670 and as I told you with this mATX board it just won't work and allow my two TV tuners to live in harmony.
Thus HD4670 does what I needed to do and its not because I'm a cheap SOB or uninformed. I am informed, making this an ideal choice for me at my pre-set budget limit.
You should updated this with a pair of these Crossfire'ed I understand performance is pretty good for a couple of "budget" cards....
arturnowp - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkI really don't like the conclusion. You can always say spend same more. You have a video card for 79$, just add 20$ and get something faster. But how much faster? 20$ it's 25% more. Does 9600GT provide 25% more performance? What's powor consumption of 9600GT. Not to mention this card is simply much bigger. We're at 100$ but why not spend around 125-130$... I'm sure most buyers want add extra money just to have something quicker if it doesn't provide "next level" of performance. Also companies like Dell or even Apple with chose smaller cards for their's computers. Reply
neomoco - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkwe all know the problem comments about biased articles on anand
i haven`t made one yet but the final words on this article are hilarious ...
my opinion is the final words should have started with something like this :
wooowww impressive card ... amazing price/performance ... highly recommended at its price ... it decimates everything nvidia offer ... same performance if not > as 9600gso at lower price ...
whenever they said something good about this card(rarely)they imediatly put brackets and add something negative ex:
"Unfortunately, that's a more difficult question to answer than it was with the higher end parts." -lol
"The hardware does outperform the competition at the same price point (though that isn't saying much)" -hmm
and much more ... i may not know too much but my opinion is this amazing card should have recieved a much better review.
let me give you an example of a nvidia review article title ... i wont say wich one it was
"NVIDIA GeForce xxxxx : The Only Card That Matters"
and an article introduction
"It's really not often that we have the pleasure to review a product so impressively positioned. The xxxx is a terrific part, and it is hitting the street at a terrific price.Whatever the reason for the xxxxx, we are glad of its existence. This truly is the part to beat in terms of value. "
i`ve never seen something even close about amd products and they had great products so to me your articles seem a little biased but we already got used to it . maby im imagining things
peace Reply
RagingDragon - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkIn this article, the reviewer pans the Nvidia 9500GT and 9600GSO even more severely than the AMD 4670. Also his reviews of the AMD 4850 and 4870 were extremely positive. So I don't think it's fair to say he's biased against AMD or in favour of Nvidia. However, he obviously has a hate on for all current < $100 cards... Nvidia's 9500GT is particularly galling - it's just a re-rehashed 7600GT! And the 9600GSO seems pointless, I just checked prices at a local online store and found EVGA 9600GSO cards costing more than their 9600GT cards.
But I think the review is too harsh on the AMD 4670, which resoundingly beat everything else in it's price range, and it is a big step in the right direction. These cards don't do what I want (1920x1200 at high details settings), but that doesn't mean they're junk, just that I'm outside the target market. While they offer little value to me, they should appeals to others with different needs/wants. Reply
pattycake0147 - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkDid you read the 4870x2 review? It definitely had and bias against the 4870x2. Reply
Loknar - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkAnandtech is not Pro-Nvidia, if that's what you want to imply.
I remember the days of the Radeon, when the likes of TomsHardware was still drooling over Geforce2, and Anand chose to painfully explain the issue of image quality - which other reporters were too lazy to attempt. Same goes for the difficult and technicalities detailing the superiority of the Athlon XP over the Pentium 4; Anand took the rough route when other sites found it easier to say "Pentium is awesome, dude".
You should consider the 'bias' in some articles is in fact "enthousiasm" about the new product/technology - which makes for a more fun-to-read article than blog-like constant bickering. Reply
toyota - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkthis is a GREAT card for oem comps. its small and the user can stick with the stock power supply and get a massive increase in fps over integrated graphics. plus these cards will probably be just $50 in a few weeks. Reply
drfelip - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkI performs better than a 3850 and uses less power. When I need to upgrade my 3450 I think I'm going for a 4670. As you can see I don't need much 3D power, though. Reply
needystevie - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkDoes this card support hybrid tech? Reply
scruffypup - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkAR, a 3870 can be had for $90-$100 Reply
toyota - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkwell the 4670 is only $80 MSRP and will likely be much cheaper in a few days and also likely have rebates or sales. plus the 4670 fits the needs of most oem comp users. its tiny, runs cool, and doesnt need external power. Reply
UNCjigga - Thursday, September 11, 2008 - linkOn top of that, the 4650/4670 appears to be the perfect choice for SFF and HTPC builders. The low power requirements and lack of PCIe power connector make it perfect for sub-400 watt power supplies. Other reviews around the web have mentioned that the fan on the reference card is very quiet. I wouldn't be surprised to see a fanless "silent" option for the 4650 soon.
I'll probably put one of these in my Shuttle xpc, as it seems more than capable of 720p gaming. Reply
yyrkoon - Thursday, September 11, 2008 - linkI'm with Derrick here, and would rather have an NV 9600GT. That is actually what I own now(an eVGA double slot 9600GT with rear exhaust). It uses about 18W more idle, 20-25W more while gaming, and it is roughly twice as fast as my old 7600GT. Above measured with a kill a watt power monitoring device at the wall.
I guess that the better experiences I have had with NV parts,and the fact that I have owned mostly NV parts in my personal systems(since at least the late 90's) has made me at least slightly partial. I must admit that this card does look tempting, and if I had not just bought a 9600GT, I would give it some consideration. One thing for sure though, what ever I bought from this side of the camp *would* have to be made by Sapphire . . . Reply
derek85 - Saturday, September 13, 2008 - linkThere is also another factor to consider. HD4670 does not require any external 6/8pin PCIE power connectors, which makes it more ideal for people with older or OEM power supplies. Otherwise I agree with you on this that 9600GT is still a very viable and competitive alternative. Reply
scruffypup - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkThe main issue I have,.. you used a price for the 3870 that is about 1 year old now,.. $199 which a casual reader would then infer that the 3870 is a worse price/performance pick,... if you are going to use september 2008 prices for the other cards,.. use September 2008 prices for the 3870 so you can paint the picture on a more level playing field. That adds to the reader's ability to see what price/performance to choose from.
Otherwise, my feelings are, at least we have some benchmarks for this card. I am a bit disappointed since it is so pared down from the 4850/4870 in areas, which makes it unable to really compete in some ways with prior generation for similar price. Reply
DerekWilson - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkin the text of the article i mention that you can find the 3870 for ~150 ... which reflected the majority of what i saw on google yesterday.
today i took a look and i can now find plenty of 3870 hardware for ~$120. which is much closer to the $100 price of the 9600 GT.
But I'd still pick a 9600 GT over a 3870 at those prices, so it really doesn't change the recommendation. Reply
pattycake0147 - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkCall me blind but I read through the article twice and I didn't once see a $150 price point mentioned for the 3870. If I just missed it point it out to me please. Reply
pattycake0147 - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkWhile you're at it go ahead and take a look at this. As you mentioned in the article, shop around.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8... Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkI've gone ahead and added a "Current Street Price" line to the table to help put things in perspective. Prices at the time of writing were grabbed from Newegg. Reply
kmmatney - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkAny overclocking potential on this card? Reply
AssBall - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkI would also be interested in this, as my 3850 seems to overclock nicely, and 10% more performance out of a budget card is very nice if you can swing it. Reply
FishTankX - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkI think this is the only article i've ever seen that uses the term 'Epic fail' in the conclusion. Reply
piroroadkill - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkEh, don't be so elitist and stuffy, if the article is good - and it is - then it doesn't really matter. Reply
n00bxqb - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkSame here ... I approve of this term :)
As for the HD 4670, keep in mind that this WILL make its way into MAINSTREAM computers (i.e. Dells and HPs), which is a very good thing. The 9600 GSO and 9600 GT probably won't find a home in these PCs because, let's face it, those cards at the $100 price-point aren't high margin and Nvidia and their partners aren't going to be able to offer the kind of substantial discount to OEMs like they can on items like the HD 4670 and 9500 GT.
Also, given the low power consumption, I could see this making its way into laptops soon as well in the $700-$1000 price range.
This will be good not only for your uneducated mainstream computer buyer, but it will also be good for AMD, which really needs it right now, and the PC gaming industry, which also really needs increased demand right now, too. Reply
fri2219 - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkNot to mention "loose" in place of the word lose...
Terrible review, even worse writing.
This isn't up to Anandtech standards. Reply
Megaknight - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkWhy is it a terrible review? Beacause it shows Nvidia sells old technology like it was new and screws the less informed people? Reply
regnez - Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - linkWell, we certainly look forward to your review of this card in the very near future, then. Or at the very least, some constructive criticism. If you cannot provide either of those, how about you just STFU?
Also, I would not be surprised to see this card in an iMac refresh, courtesy of its low-power/decent performance. Certainly it would be an improvement over the 2400/2600 GPUs they have now, at least for the baseline models. Reply
fri2219 - Thursday, September 11, 2008 - linkDoes your daddy's dick still taste like your shit?
I look forward to your review of all the penises you've licked the shit off in the future.
Until then, shut the fuck up/ Reply
xeutonmojukai - Thursday, September 11, 2008 - linkPetty bickering makes one look petty, nothing more.
Besides that, I have an interest in your expert assessment of your own experience licking feces off of male genitalia, since I'm sure it would be riveting compared to your new rival's most likely empty repertoire of anecdotes.
Back on-topic, I found this review to be great, and I also find that spelling is about as relevant to the quality of a person's writing of a review as an incoherent username is to the inherent coolness of the user on a reply thread. Reply
Gristy - Wednesday, December 22, 2010 - linkI recent upgraded to the agp version of the 4670 my pc is pretty average, i have a 2.8 amd athlon 1.5 GB of ram and im currently running ARMA2 on high graphics with my resolution at 1024 x 768 and the game runs perfectly smooth with absolute fantastic graphics, i HIGHLY reccomend this budget card :D Reply
dellprecision380 - Saturday, July 09, 2011 - link4670 will work in x16 pci slot and 375watt psu?mother board intel 955xcs and pentium d 3.2ghz Reply


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This program will fund agencies that utilize a comprehensive, multidisciplinary approach to provide intervention and supervision services for youth with sexual behavior problems and treatment services for their child victims and families. Award recipients will target for services only pre- or post-adjudicated youth who are charged with an offense involving inappropriate sexual behavior with a child and who have no prior history of court involvement for sexual misconduct. Award recipients will also provide services to victims and families. Youth participating in this program must undergo a mental health evaluation to determine if they are amenable to community-based treatment and intervention.This program solicitation has two parts. Category 1 (sites) will provide funding to as many as two sites for the purposes described above. Category 2 (support, technical assistance, and evaluation) will fund one awardee to provide support and technical assistance to the sites selected under Category 1 and conduct a process/implementation evaluation to document how the sites develop comprehensive, multidisciplinary approaches and intervention models to effectively respond to youth with problem sexual behaviors and their child victims.This program is a collaboration between OJJDP and the Office of Sex Offender Sentencing, Monitoring, Apprehending, Registering, and Tracking (SMART) and is authorized by Pub. L. No. 113-6, 127 Stat. 198, 256.Category 1 applicants are elgible for up to $300,00 in funding for a period of 24 months.Cateogry 2 applicants are eligible for up to $500,000 in funding for a period of 24 months. View full announcement. [1]
[1] http://www.ojjdp.gov/grants/solicitations/FY2013/YSBPP.pdf

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Parsons, Beal invited to USA camp
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SAN ANTONIO — Houston's Chandler Parsons and Washington's Bradley Beal, both former standouts at Florida, are two of the 27 young players scheduled to attend USA Basketball's minicamp in July.
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OCZ Vector 150 (120GB & 240GB) Reviewby Kristian Vättö on 11/7/2013 9:00 AM EST
- Posted in
- Storage
- SSDs
- Indilinx
- Vector 150
59 Comments
Back to Article
ssdpro - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkLooks pretty good. I like that it is certified for 50GB/day - much higher than the original which makes me think the nand is better. Price will need to get down to 120 or so though, that 1GB/$1 is critical. Reply
Solid State Brain - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkOCZ indeed have managed fooling people that these drives are much better than the old ones.
Any drive with 3k P/E writes MLC NAND from 128 GB and up, write endurance wise should be able to support at the very least 50 GB of writes per day for 5 years, even taking into account a rather high write amplification of 4.5-5.
It's all mostly about how much manufacturers are willing to risk cannibalizing their enterprise lineup. I don't think OCZ has much left to lose at this point. Reply
Guspaz - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkWhen a company with a reputation for terrible reliability has their review sample fail, that's a pretty good sign that their reliability is still terrible. Reply
romrunning - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkFool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice... or 3 times... or 4 times... Reply
geniekid - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkFool me once, strike one. Fool me twice, strike...three. Reply
Guspaz - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkSadly, this was the experience of a friend who made the mistake of buying an OCZ drive. It failed, so he RMA'd it. The replacement failed. So he RMA'd that. THAT replacement failed... Eventually he gave up and bought an Intel drive, which... didn't fail. Reply
Samus - Friday, November 08, 2013 - linkMy last OCZ drive that failed was RMA'ed and the replacement eBayed. Learned my lesson. That was a few years ago, but at the time, NO other drives were failing in OCZ fashion.
Kingston SSDNOW, Crucial C300, Intel X25-M/320, Samsung 700-series...they weren't as fast, but they also rarely failed. Reply
deeps6x - Friday, November 08, 2013 - linkYep, NEVER AGAIN for me.
Much cheaper EVO looks like the bang for the buck winner still. Every six months there is something significantly better for less cost anyway. Why pay premium prices for such a short amount of time at the 'top'? Buy the best 'bang for the buck' products as much as possible. Reply
djscrew - Saturday, November 09, 2013 - linkmy 2nd gen OCZ Revodrive 128 gb has been going strong for 3 yrs Reply
Senti - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkBuying OCZ SSD is suicide. Even with impressive hardware it's just not worth the problems. I can tell as the user of quite a premium drive from them: Revodrive 3. No TRIM support, drivers only for Win7 (and not even planned for anything else), horrible boot times (due to its bios insisting on showing some useless information, you can even press Space to reduce this time that proves that it would be easy to improve the situation if the company was willing to improve things as users asked). Reply
ssdpro - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkI really don't see how comparing a SSD purchase to suicide is relevant. Any component can fail at any time - it is not the end of life having a graphics card fizzle or SSD disappear. If anyone remembers when Anandtech reviewed the 840 Pro the sample died and then when they tested the replacement it died. It happens. http://www.anandtech.com/show/6328/samsung-ssd-840... I still buy and will buy Samsung, I have bought and will buy from OCZ. Reply
JellyRoll - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkGood luck with that. Reply
evonitzer - Friday, November 08, 2013 - linkAs long as we're playing the anecdotal game, I bought a Vertex 2 and it failed, but allowed me to recover all the data from it. It was a little weird, but whatever. Reinstalled to it and it worked fine. Then I switched to a Vertex 4 and it has treated me well. So ... Reply
Samus - Friday, November 08, 2013 - linkI just don't get why people would consider an OCZ drive over the competition. It'd be like buying a Quantum Bigfoot, IBM Deskstar 75GXP or Conner S35-series drive, all of which either had storage, performance or price crowns of their time, but all well-known for their poor reliability, including their successors. All of these companies failed.
Quantum was purchased by Maxtor who discontinued the Bigfoot, IBM was purchased by Hitachi (who struggled to get those GMR heads to work beyond the 60GXP) and Conner went bankrupt and the assets were ironically purchased by Quantum who liquidated everything but their tape-backup business. Reply
TheWrongChristian - Friday, November 08, 2013 - linkThe difference is that the Samsung samples were promptly fixed with a firmware update before it was released to retail. I'd have no faith in OCZ fixing such firmware issues, and the Samsung 840 Pro has gone on to be a solid dependable drive.
These failures are almost always firmware bugs, I think SSD generally rarely physically fail (though I have no numbers to back that up) and OCZ don't have a stellar reputation in that department.
Not that OCZ will be around to honour the 5 year warranty anyway.... Reply
djscrew - Saturday, November 09, 2013 - linki do have to agree, my revodrive takes forever to boot... gonna have to try that space thing Reply
weiran - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkInteresting SSD but at this price I think I'd rather have the Sandisk Extreme II. Reply
JellyRoll - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkYes I agree. Sandisk had been around 25 years. Ocz will be lucky to be around for another three months, thier cash burn is ridiculous and they are running on fumes provided by loan sharks....which is why they are a penny stock, yet no one buys them. The reason they haven't been bought is that the barefoot is just a rebadged marvell controller.they have no ip. Reply
chubbypanda - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkSanDisk? Since 1988, but for how many years are in SSD business (very, very short time). Reply
JellyRoll - Friday, November 08, 2013 - linkYes, but they have produced NAND since its introduction 25 years ago. That is experience, and longevity. Reply
Kristian Vättö - Friday, November 08, 2013 - link"The reason they haven't been bought is that the barefoot is just a rebadged marvell controller.they have no ip."
The Octane and Vertex 4 used Marvell based silicon but the Barefoot 3 is OCZ's/Indilinx' own silicon. Or unless you have some proof that states otherwise. Reply
JellyRoll - Friday, November 08, 2013 - linkThe 'proof' is common sense. First, they have lied in the past, saying that the first Barefoots were from them, until a document was leaked, remember that?
Second, every single company producing a good controller that is not owned by a fab or other large enterprise company has been bought in the last few years. The exception is OCZ. If they actually had a controller, someone else would have bought them. Doesn't it strike you as funny that this Barefoot also has the same "Aragon Co-Processor" as the controller that they admitted they were lying about, which was Marvel? If they lied once, what makes you think they wouldn't lie again? Wasnt it Anand that broke that story in the first place? The only difference is the leaker was found and fired. Reply
blanarahul - Friday, November 29, 2013 - link" Doesn't it strike you as funny that this Barefoot also has the same "Aragon Co-Processor" as the controller that they admitted they were lying about, which was Marvel? ".
No. It doesn't. Vector was the first drive that used their so-called Aragon Processor.
Or may be you can find me a document/webpage as proof.
Anyway, I hope the Indilinx and PLX guys go to Toshiba. The rest of OCZ should go to Corsair. Reply
JellyRoll - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkOCZ stock is worth 45cents a share, 3x lower value this week alone. By all observers from numerous sources in the market ocz is in a state of collapse. Readers should be warned, they will not be there to honor that rma. Reply
Shadowmaster625 - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkThe irony of a dead OCZ review sample. Screw this company. I jsut had my 2nd to last OCZ drive die on me this week. It started with a failure to update java which lead to a failure of the windows installer. Finally it just died and the BIOS wouldnt even see the drive anymore. I have one more OCZ drive left, and I am sure it will die soon. Yes, every single OCZ drive that I have even bought has died. Reply
Stefanfj - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkThat is really sad and unfortunate, I have an Agility3 60GB which I bought June 2011 (IIRC), still working perfectly in a friend's PC, I also have two Vertex4 128GB drives (seperate computers), as well as having sold two Vertex4 64GB drives to two other friends - they all working fine... Guess it really is just a big lottery maybe... Reply
clarkn0va - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkIn my experience this depends entirely on which line you are buying. I have and use four or five Vertex and Agility series drives and I've sold dozens of others. I have yet to see a single one of them fail.
By contrast, I bought and sold a handful of lower end OCZ drives, including the Petrol, Solid and Fuel, and the majority of these died in short time. I even had a RMA replacement die after about a month of light use. The last Petrol to fail was replaced by an Agility because thankfully OCZ had stopped shipping the Petrol.
So yeah, I stick to their top shelf SSDs and happily pocket the savings over the lower performing and more expensive Intel drives. Reply
zodiacsoulmate - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkMy Vector 256 GB died in 3 month, now I'm on my third replaced 256 GB drive... Reply
colonelclaw - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkI don't like kicking anyone when they're down, but I've heard rumours that OCZ have burnt through all their cash and are dangerously close to going bust. Does anyone know if this is true? Reply
marc1000 - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkKristian, I was expecting to see the Intel SSD 530 in the comparison list. Do you have an ETA about testing it someday? Or is the performance too similar to SSD 335 to warrant a review?
thanks Reply
Kristian Vättö - Friday, November 08, 2013 - linkActually, I've already tested the Intel SSD 530 and am just waiting for Intel to confirm a few things so I can push the review live. I didn't want to include the results here as it kind of ruins the idea of a review if all the scores have been published beforehand. But you should expect the review to surface early next week :) Reply
HisDivineOrder - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkOCZ's been taking a beating in profits. If you look at the sheer number of refurb deals on OCZ drives as of late, it looks like they're dumping their inventory at reduced prices with virtually no warranties, hoping to clear out warehouses. They're trying to make a quick buck in a hurry because their stock is taking a beating after their profits didn't line up.
I'd say this might be one of the last times you read an OCZ SSD review. Reply
Bob Todd - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkMy only truly horrid SSD experience has been with an Agility 4. Data corruption, randomly not even appearing in the BIOS (on common Intel SATA controllers), etc. RMA'd it once. The replacement did the same thing. RMA'd that one too. The third one is just as bad, and it's sitting in a desk drawer until I get around to sending it back yet again. That's with the latest firmware. Completely anecdotal of course, but 3 bad drives in a row from OCZ when I've never had similar issues with a larger set of drives from Crucial, Plextor, and Kingston. Reply
Souka - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkReminds me of the Hitachi Deathstar...er Deskstar drive series... click click clck... Reply
gus6464 - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkWho in their right mind would buy an OCZ drive over a Samsung, Intel, Crucial, Sandisk, Plextor? Reply
wonderblue - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkI must be the only person on the planet who bought an OCZ SSD and didn't have it fail.
128GB vertex 3 going strong for a year so far. Reply
killerroach - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkI still boot my desktop off of a 60GB Vertex. Not a Vertex 3, Vertex 2... original Vertex. Still going strong. Reply
evonitzer - Friday, November 08, 2013 - linkYeah, I feel like I'm the luckiest guy around with my OCZ. Or else (gasp!) these comments exaggerate the situation a wee bit. Reply
kmmatney - Friday, November 08, 2013 - linkI still have a 60GB Agility 2 running fine, although I've been using it as a giant external USB memory stick for the last year (using a USB to SATA adapter that came with a Samsung SSD). It's work amazing as a memory stick, copying files at about 30mb/sec on USB 2. Reply
Gigaplex - Friday, November 08, 2013 - linkMy Agility 3 is still going too *fingers crossed* Reply
DarkKnight_Y2K - Friday, November 08, 2013 - linkI have 2 60GB Vertex 2 in RAID-0 that I bought in 2009, that I still boot to as of today with no problems. Reply
profquatermass - Friday, November 08, 2013 - linkMe 2!
A Vertex 3. I think most people don't bother ensuring they've got current Firmware in them when buying from a shop.
Shops (brick or online) are notorious for keeping old stock on their shelves.
Also make sure it is partition aligned correctly. Reply
Pantsu - Friday, November 08, 2013 - linkI've been using a 128 GB Vertex 3 since they launched it back in 2011. It had the blue screen issue but that got fixed after a firmware update. It's been working great ever since. Too bad for OCZ, looks like they're beyond hope at this point. Based on the comments their reputation has been soiled, and they'd need a miracle to keep going. Reply
derzerb - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkI've been using ocz products in several builds psu/ssds and never had any issues. The current affordable prices for ssds is partially attributable to ocz's aggressive pricing in the past. Reply
mayankleoboy1 - Thursday, November 07, 2013 - linkisnt the metric "4k random read at QD=1/2
the only relefant metric for 80% of a typical desktop workload ?
In that metric, Samsung 840Pro still rules. Reply
JellyRoll - Friday, November 08, 2013 - linkExactly correct. QD 1-3 are all that matter....not Destroyer benchmarks with insane workloads. Reply
Gigaplex - Friday, November 08, 2013 - linkI'm confused as to why the 4K random reads are so slow. Much slower than writing. Anyone care to explain? Reply
Kristian Vättö - Friday, November 08, 2013 - linkRandom writes can take advantage of write combining (i.e. small IOs are combined to make look like one big IO), which in turn will allow higher level of parallelism as the operation can be spread to a number of die.
With random reads that is not possible because when the host sends a read IO request, the controller can't wait to combine it with more reads because that would add unnecessary latency (which means whatever you're doing will slow down because the OS is waiting for your SSD). Low queue depth random reads cannot take much advantage of parallelism because at QD=3, the controller can only read from three dies simultaneously (decrease QD to 1 and it can only read from one die). Reply
piroroadkill - Friday, November 08, 2013 - linkNot bad in a review, but the review sample did die.
While better alternatives exist, most people would avoid the OCZ brand like the plague, and that's the sad fact of the matter for OCZ.
I too can throw my anecdote into the ring with a Vertex 2 that gave random trouble. I RMA'd it, and the replacement sees only light duty in a seldom used laptop. Reply
BlakKW - Friday, November 08, 2013 - linkI have 2 ssd's, both would be considered the cheaper "consumer" quality, and usage would be considered very light. Would spending extra on an enterprise level ssd with higher warranty get me a drive that lasts a good bit longer? Reply
Kristian Vättö - Friday, November 08, 2013 - linkWith very light usage, I don't think there is any reason to pay extra for an enthusiast class SSD, let alone enterprise-grade. Even the basic consumer SSDs (like Samsung SSD 840 EVO for instance) should outlive the other components in your system. Reply
LB-ID - Friday, November 08, 2013 - linkOCZ as a company has, time and again, proven their complete contempt for their customer base. Release something in a late alpha, buggy state, berate their customers for six months while they dutifully jump through all the hoops trying to fix it, then many months down the road release a bios that makes it marginally useful.
Not going to be an abused, unpaid beta tester for this company. Never again. Will lift a glass to toast when their poor products and crappy support ultimately send them the way of the dodo. Reply
profquatermass - Friday, November 08, 2013 - linkThen again I remember Intel doing the exact same thing with their new SSDs.
Life Tip: Never buy any device on day #1. Wait a few weeks/months until real-life bugs are ironed out. Reply
Kurosaki - Saturday, November 09, 2013 - linkWhere is the review of Intels 3500-series?and why aren't the bench getting any love? :-( Reply
'nar - Sunday, November 10, 2013 - linkI am surprised by all of the negative feedback here, they must all be in their own worlds. Everyone can only base their opinion on their own experiences, but individuals lack the statistical quantity to make an educated determination. I have been using OCZ drives for three years now. The cause of failure of the only one's that have failed have been isolated, and corrected. A "corner issue" where a power event causes the corruption of the firmware rendering the drive inert, corrected in the latest firmware.
1. REVO is "bleeding edge" hardware, expect to bleed
2. Agility is cheap crap, throw it away
3. Vertex and Vector lines have been stable
It is interesting how many complain, yet do not provide specifics. Which model drive? What motherboard? What firmware version? I do not care for the opinions of strangers, you need to back it up with details. People get frustrated by inconvenience, and often prefer to complain and replace rather than correct the problem. As I said, I use OCZ on most of my computers, but I install Intel and Plextor for builds I sell. Reliability and toolbox are more practical for most users, and Intel is among, if not the top, of the most reliable drives. Reply
hero4hire - Monday, November 11, 2013 - linkMuch of the hate has to do with how consumers were treated during the support process. I can only imagine if a painless fast exchange for failed drives was the status quo we wouldn't have the vitriol posted here. OCZ failed at least twice, with hardware and then poor support. Reply
lovemyssd - Sunday, November 24, 2013 - linkright. no doubt thereof comments are from those playing with their stock price. That's why genuine users and those who know can't make sense out of the bashing. Reply
KAlmquist - Sunday, November 10, 2013 - linkThe review states that the Vector 150 is better than the Corsair Neutron in terms of consistency, but the graphs indicate otherwise. At around the 100 second mark, the Vector 150 drops to around 3500 IOPS for one second, whereas the Neutron is always above 6000 IOPS. So it seems there is a mistake somewhere. Reply
CBlade - Wednesday, June 04, 2014 - linkHow about that Toshiba second generation 19nm NAND that Kristian mentioned? How we can identify part number on this new SSD? I want to know if the NAND its better or not. Reply


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This is one way to direct market your ceramics to the public. It's a sure fire way at Christmas. I stumbled on this years ago. Many years ago I decided to not travel to shows at x-mas and sell my pottery direct to my local audience. This was in 1979. I went to our local shopping center(town of under 20,ooo) and looked around. There is a Safeway grocery store anda Large Chain drug store and some assorted local businesses (about 8-10) inthis small shopping center. All of these stores have a huge weather overhang for our rainy mild climate. I approached the drug store manager and cut a deal to sell my pottery outside his store for a flat fee the two weeks before x-mas.This was the start of a 33 year of selling pottery at x-mas in this shopping center-Since that early time I went thru 5 managers and 4 name changes on that drug store chain as it sold to others along the way-I did 8 years in front of Safeway and now for the past 5 years I am in front of our Local pet store-theonly local shop that's been thereas long as me. This is a flat fee deal with the shopping center managing real estate firm. The rent is 200$ and I can do as many days as I want in December.I set my own hours. The local store likes me and I do not have to deal with corporate district managers who change their tune every year. The pet store is a solid well-attended business.
This center has had its ups and downs and usually there area few empty stores all thru this 33-year run. This is a way to sell your work and catch the x-mas buying frenzy. It works well-I have learned to tune my hours over the years to what sells the most for the least time. I am open 12-6pm Monday-thru Thursday-11-6pmFri-Sat-11-6 Sundays. Now in order for this to work well I designed a lockable closeable booth. One that includes heat and has power and my sales help can sit in. This idea can work in an indoor environment as well if you live where winter is snow and cold. This can be tweaked to whatever you can come up with and it's a bit outside the box but works well. It's the time of year that functional stuff flies off the shelve. I do carry my own business liability insurance and that's around 300$ but I use it all year as well. I have now been there so long I'm an institution and the locals know where to find me. I do put up florescent color signs ( youcannot not look at them) thru town all on private property that say PotterySale outside such and such store. Get permission for the signs well in advance-I grease the wheels with a few mugs. This situation can be in your area-scout it out this year and get it going next season-Its really a good marketing idea that works well. Its local and I'm local and every year it's better than the last.
Here's the setup-the pots on rack on left get stuffed into the display every night for lock up and the lights fit inside as well as the small table on right side as well as a few back stock boxes.


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Submit News
North Korea: We are Ready to Strike the U.S. Mainland With Missiles
Jason Mick
March 29, 2013 1:17 PM
Recipient E-mail
Sender E-mail
Defense experts say North Korea's claims are purely bombastic and delusional
Kim Jung-Un, supreme ruler of North Korea (NK) and son of late dictator
Kim Jong-Il
, loves Dennis Rodman and American culture, but he hates the American government after they cut off his imports of luxury items due to his
insistence on nuclear weapons development
. Now the dictator's bipolar attitude towards the U.S. has seemingly taken, with Mr. Jung-Un
scrapping a six decades old armistice
with America and South Korea (SK).
I. Kim Jung-Un: "We Should Mercilessly Strike the U.S. Mainland"
In an appearance on the state-controlled Korean Central News Agency (KCNA), the young dictator is pictured leafing through documents surrounding by four military officials. Behind him is a map of his plans to "attack" the U.S. with missile strikes. The map indicates missile trajectories stretching from NK to the continental U.S.
The KCNA report describes recent stealth bomber tests over South Korea by the U.S. as "an ultimatum that they (the United States) will ignite a nuclear war at any cost on the Korean Peninsula."
(closeup 1)
(closeup 2)
[Image Source: KCNA/Reuters (Top), bottom images modified by James Pearson of NK News]
The report continues, "If [South Korea and the U.S.] make a reckless provocation with huge strategic forces, (we) should mercilessly strike the U.S. mainland, their stronghold, their military bases in the operational theaters in the Pacific, including Hawaii and Guam, and those in South Korea."
II. Tensions Escalate
The threat is the latest in a series of jabs between the U.S. and the defiant Asian military dictatorship. Following its decision to scrap the armistice, the U.S. conducted war games in SK. NK responded by cutting a key phone line used as one of the only diplomatic channels between the North and the South.
In an apparent response to the line cutting, the U.S. proceeded with a test of
B-2 Spirit stealth bombers
over North Korea, which according to U.S. Forces Korea "demonstrates the United States' ability to conduct long-range, precision strikes quickly and at will."
B-2 bombers fly over South Korea earlier this week. [Image Source: Sin Young-Keun/Yonhap]
Designed by Northrop Grumman Corp. (
), the B-2 is a fearsome weapon far beyond anything in North Korea's arsenal. Its specialty is in standoff missiles (cruise or short-range ballistic) -- missiles that are launched at distance to avoid counterattacking fire. The B-2 is the only known aircraft capable of engaging in standoff missile strikes while in stealth mode (most nations use ships for this purpose). The bomber has a crew of two and carries up to eighty 500 lb (230 kg)-class JDAM GPS-guided bombs, or sixteen 2,400 lb (1,100 kg) B83 nuclear bombs.
Despite the back and forth Pentagon spokesman George Little called on NK to "dial the temperature down", accusing the nation of engaging in cycles of "provocative behavior".
, "No one wants there to be war on the Korean Peninsula, let me make that very clear.... We have to deal with them. We have to be sober, calm, cool, collected about these periods. That's what we're doing right now. And we are assuring our South Korean allies day to day that we stand with them in the face of these provocations."
China echoed the desire for peace, despite its growing frustration with its ally NK. Foreign Ministry Spokesman Hong Lei told reporters that peace was a "joint responsibility, remarking, "We hope relevant parties can work together to turn around the tense situation in the region."
III. Despite Helping Hand From Iran, Danger Remains Low, Experts Say
several failed tests
, North Korea did
succeed last year in launching a rudimentary ballistic missile
into space. The key appears to be support from Iran; sources say that shipments from Iran have been headed to NK and
reported that Iranian observers were present at the December rocket launch. Some reports indicate that North Korea may have
paid Iran nearly $1.3B USD
for its engineering expertise, allowing it to turn around its floundering missile program.
North Korea has also been successful in conducting small-scale nuclear bombs tests.
According to the Office of the Director of National Intelligence,
NK's February's nuclear test
measured "approximately several kilotons" while the first nuclear test in 2006 was under 1 kiloton and the second in 2009 was about 2-7 kilotons. Those bombs would likely be capable of causing significant damage if they reached a populated area, but are smaller than the 16- and 21-kiloton explosives that the U.S. dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki (respectively) at the close of WWII.
North Korea's nuclear weapons are about 1/2 to 1/3 the size of the nuclear bomb the U.S. used on Hiroshima in WW II [pictured].
Since WWII, there has been no nuclear act of war.
North Korea may have the ability, theoretically to strike at the U.S. mainland, at least before you consider interceptor capabilities. However, defense experts say a successful strike on the U.S. by the hostile Asian nation is unlikely.
ames Hardy, Asia-Pacific editor of IHS Jane's Defense Weekly told
in an interview, "U
nless there has been a miraculous turnaround among North Korea's strategic forces, there is little to no chance that it could successfully land a missile on Guam, Hawaii or anywhere else outside the Korean Peninsula that U.S. forces may be stationed.
Accuracy would be a likely issue, should North Korea attempt such an act of war.
Thus far the hostilities have not resulted in any direct violence. However, digitally the nations are already at war in cyberspace. North Korea has been
engaged in a war of cyber-attacks
in recent weeks with the U.S. and its ally South Korea.
"I modded down, down, down, and the flames went higher." -- Sven Olsen
Related Articles
China, North Korea, Implicated in Cyberattack on South Korea's Banks
March 21, 2013, 5:56 PM
China Losing Patience as North Korea Threatens Nuclear Strike on U.S.
March 7, 2013, 4:37 PM
North Korea Conducts Third Nuclear Test, Upsets U.N.
February 12, 2013, 6:23 PM
South Korea Says North Korea Dumped $1.3B USD Into Missile Launch
December 12, 2012, 4:30 PM
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December 12, 2012, 12:22 PM
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Value City Furniture Falls Church
At Value City Furniture Falls Church, serving the greater Washington DC area, we're dedicated to being the very best community partner, and that's why we not only promise our customers a furniture store with quality items at the guaranteed best prices, but we're also passionate about helping neighbors, friends, and families in Falls Church and the Washington DC area! We love working with local businesses, schools, and other groups, and we're proud to offer each organization the time, resources, and financial help they need (and occasionally, a comfy place to sit!).
Not quite sure where to start with furnishing your home? Try our Room Planner software to visualize the space you have to work with and which pieces will look and function the best, or talk to one of our associates for help. We carry furniture for the living room, dining room, bedroom, home office, entertainment areas, and kids' rooms, as well as accessories and accent pieces for every room.
Need to spruce up your Falls Church living room? Try optimizing your space with a modular sofa or a love seat with complementary side tables. Family computer crammed on a too-small table? Try one of our computer desks complete with room for your printer, a comfortable chair, and space for books and accessories. Is that Falls Church dining room lacking the wow factor it needs for your next dinner party? An oak table with upholstered chairs provides the comfort your family and guests love. When a young child is ready for their own room or a special redesign, a new bed, dresser, and plenty of storage for toys and books are perfect. Perhaps your Falls Church bedroom isn't the sanctuary it should be. A beautiful 5-piece bedroom set comes together perfectly with your eye for fabrics and accessories. No matter your furniture need, Value City Furniture has a variety of styles at great prices to fit any family's budget.
We offer weekly coupon deals and financing options for our customers. We know how important it is to maintain the family's budget while furnishing your home with durable yet stylish items. Every home needs sturdy, timeless pieces that last generations.
Furniture makes a great gift for college students, newlyweds, and those who have recently bought or moved into a new house. Why not let your loved ones choose their own items with a Value City Furniture gift card? Add any amount from $1 to $9,999 to let them choose the perfect accent lamp, mattress, sofa, or table.
Our Falls Church furniture store associates offer superior customer service and expert advice in helping you furnish the home of your dreams. Beyond the store, we strive to make our community a great place to live, work, and play.
Value City Furniture - Store # 104
5516 Leesburg Pike
Falls Church, VA 22041
(703) 998-8667


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ex2. Pray to Lord Scrotus so you won't bust a nut.
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