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Dell XPS 14z: Thoroughly Reviewedby Jarred Walton on 10/24/2011 9:00 AM EST
60 Comments
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cloudgazer - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkApple upgraded the CPUs on their MBP line literally this morning, so the final comparison is a bit off. Reply
JarredWalton - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkWritten earlier than this morning, but I appreciate the update. Apple still likes skimping on the RAM and fleecing you for RAM upgrades, but we can't expect much else. Reply
cloudgazer - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkNo arguments there. First law of Apple is to buy your own RAM - though you always have to hang on to the original Apple supplied SODIMM in case you have to use AppleCare. Reply
S.D.Leary - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkThats odd. Every time I have used Applecare, I've had aftermarket RAM in my system, and they have never even mentioned it.
SDLeary Reply
lukarak - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkThey even offer guides on how to replace it. Of course they are not going to mention it. Reply
tipoo - Saturday, February 25, 2012 - linkChanging RAM doesn't void the warrenty on the rest of the Mac, they just don't cover the new RAM. Reply
jecs - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkMy current mobile computer is a Macbook Pro 2.0 from 2008 but I will wait more for my next laptop. However I am not looking for performance there. What I want is a very good screen, decent graphics and a nice and solid construction that could last for 3-4 years more. For performance I work with desktops. Reply
XLNC - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkI'm glad they brought attention to the horrid screen. We've been stuck with 1366x768 for far too long, because the vast majority don't understand what "resolution" means and get the cheapest laptop possible. This is one area where I applaud Apple, they provide high quality, high-res (16:10 in some cases!) screens. However, my search for a compact Windows laptop with a quality screen continues. Reply
FlyBri - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkI hear ya, which is why I caved and bought a MBA to run Windows 7. Quality is so far above anything else, it's completely worth it. Reply
Johnmcl7 - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkI wouldn't say so, Apple have always been slow with their screens particularly in resolution as rivals (particularly Dell and Sony) have been offering much higher resolution screens. Apple have been slow with higher resolution 13in panels, they're only offering the 1400x900 now whereas Sony have had 1600x900 13.1in panels for a couple of generations of their Z series and with the last generation were offering a 1920x1080 13.1in panel. I don't really understand how Apple have managed to get this reputation for screens given they're years behind their competition, the RGB LED backlit screens have been out a couple of years now but no sign of them on an Apple machine.
I also disagree about what people think of resolutions, I don't think it's a case that vast majority don't want higher resolution. I'm a resolution junkie and my machines use high resolution panels but most people that use any of my machines find the resolution too high and want to turn it down and at work there's a surprising number of people who find their 17in 1280x1024 screens too high and run them at 1024x768 (which looks terrible as it's the wrong aspect ratio).
John Reply
hechacker1 - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkApple's reputation I think is exaggerated because they take the time to factory color calibrate the screens. I don't think any other PC manufacturer does the same.
But even Apple's factory calibration lately has tended toward the cooler 6800K temperatures instead of an ideal 6500K for web browsing or watching videos. They are playing into the fact that people tend to like the ultra bright, cool balanced screens that make them seen "bright and white" when comparing them side by side.
Looking at past Anandtech reviews, it's clear the Macbook's generally have very high quality screens brightness, color quality, and contrast wise.
Sure they are lacking in resolution on the laptops, but OS-X isn't resolution independent yet. Reply
kishorshack - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkGo for DELL XPS 15 it has an awesome screen
I can look at it for ages :) Reply
MobiusStrip - Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - link"This is one area where I applaud Apple, they provide high quality, high-res (16:10 in some cases!) screens."
Rendered garbage by Apple's insistence on shoving pathetic glossy screens down customers' throats.
Oh, you can pay $150 extra for matte on the biggest MBPs, but you can't get it on the machines most likely to leave the house: the 13" MBP or the Airs.
Glossy screens are the biggest regression in computers ever. Yet manufacturers just get a free pass on this fraud. Reply
Stuka87 - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkSo I like the small bezel around the screen. Its about time somebody did this (if somebody else has, I apologize for not knowing). This is one of the things that I really dislike about my Precision M4600. They could have easily fit a larger 16:10 display.
Its a shame the quality of the display in the 14z is so poor. The rest of it seems to be a fairly decent design. Reply
tipoo - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkI really wish they kept that 525M in there like the 15", the 520 is about half as fast. In fact, its not far from the HD3000. Reply
Death666Angel - Monday, October 24, 2011 - link"I'm not sure why they include only one SS port, given the second USB port is right next to it."
Not sure if this applies here, but I couldn't install Windows 7 from my USB stick on my Llano system with an AsRock A75M-ITX and A6-3500 CPU. It just didn't recognize the stick. In the USB 2.0 ports there was no problem. I guess it's driver issues. If that is the case, I can see why they want to keep at least one USB 2.0 port available.
If that is not the case and USB 3.0 makes no problems when installing from media attached to it, then disregard this post. :-) Reply
dagamer34 - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkWell, Windows 7 doesn't natively have USB 3.0 drivers included on the disk, so it's going to be confused by the chipset connected to that port. Should be fixed in Windows 8 though (it has native Windows 8 support). Reply
dagamer34 - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkOoops, I meant native USB 3.0 support. Reply
hechacker1 - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkIsn't it backwards compatible though? The bios might have an option to run it in HiSpeed mode or whatever if it can't be detected as USB3.0 without a driver. Reply
jpochedl - Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - linkUSB3.0 can run at USB2.0 speeds, but the WinPE environment still needs a driver that supports the USB3.0 chipset in order to access the USB3.0 port.... Reply
Anonymous Blowhard - Monday, October 24, 2011 - link"We hope to have the 14z with GeForce GT 520M in for testing in the near future, and we'll revisit the topic of graphics performance then"
Spoiler alert: It's probably not worth the upgrade cost Dell is asking.
Expect it to perform a little faster than a 320M or HD 3000. It has a little more shader muscle, but it will fall flat on its face in texture/render bound scenarios, or when that poor 64-bit memory bus chokes. Clock-bumped 410M, really.
320M = 48:16:8 @ 450MHz, 128bit (shared) DDR3
GT520M = 48:8:4 @ 740MHz, 64-bit DDR3
GT525M would have been a better choice but they might have ran into thermal constraints. See the 3830TG for an example. Reply
dagamer34 - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkWhat's with PC manufacturers skimping on screen resolutions? 1366x768 on a 14" display should NOT be acceptable in this day and age. Heck, the MacBook Pro cramps that many pixels into a 11.6" display! Reply
Master_Sigma - Monday, October 24, 2011 - link$1,000+ for a laptop with a 1366x768 screen? Is this some kind of sick joke, or are there missing options in the Display category? Reply
ananduser - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkApple gives you a 1280x800 one for a higher price and with lower specs. Reply
name99 - Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - link"with lower specs"
Uhh --- so your take-away from Anand's long review of the display and comparing it to a MacBook Pro was "the MacBook Pro display has worse specs"?
My god --- that's some seriously broken reading comprehension. Reply
TegiriNenashi - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkWhat is this magic "p" letter. AFIR computer displays have "p" since 1980s. It is sad that diisplay resolution degraded to the point when TV screen quality is seen as benchmark. Reply
tipoo - Saturday, February 25, 2012 - linkTechnically any LCD running at non-native res will revert to i/interlaced mode, but I see your point. Reply
popej - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkOn the picture on front page notebook looks like it had matte screen. Is it retouched? What's the reason to show false pictures in a review? Reply
JarredWalton - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkThe gallery images are the actual laptop; the front image is a Dell provided image, which may have been pre-rendered or at least retouched. I used it because I think it looks nice in the text of the article; if anyone buys the laptop because of that image and doesn't read the text, I'm not going to worry too much about it. :-) Reply
popej - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkI have read your article and I appreciate it :)
OK, since you have used pictures provided by Dell I can forward my question: why is Dell using false picture to advertise its product?
This is not a first time, when I notice similar trickery. Reply
JarredWalton - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkThe vast majority of marketing images are retouched at the very least, and I've seen plenty of pre-rendered images over the years. This is not unique to Dell in the slightest. Unless they blatantly falsify the images, I'm not too worried about it. The image on the front page may look matte, but it could be that they have a light box for images (very likely) and the reflection just happens to look more like a matte display. Reply
ramvalleru - Tuesday, December 20, 2011 - linkactual screen is like this only. I bought it a day before. screen is k but for the price of 1135$, the screen is not up to the mark when compared with Sony and Dell XPS 15, 15Z. :-( Reply
justaviking - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkThe FIRST picture IN THE ARTICLE makes it very clear that the screen is glossy. Just look at that reflection... no matte screen there! Reply
hybrid2d4x4 - Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - linkI'm with you on that one. I probably shouldn't have bothered reading further since that picture all in itself makes this this laptop about as desirable as a pile of dung. No wonder Dell provided a better pic. Still, that picture on the site home page shouldn't be used at all since it misrepresents the laptop.
On an aside, something that baffles me is how the stock MBP escapes the same criticism- the use of glass as a screen surface has got to be the single stupidest idea in the (brief) history of flat-panel displays! Reply
mules - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkI don't worry too much about the screen quality. I, like many laptop users, attach a monitor (and keyboard and mouse).
I would have liked to see a 3rd USB port. Often, when on the road, I need a keyboard, mouse and USB drive attached.
I'd be interested if someone made a "laptop" with no keyboard or monitor, and possibly even no battery - this can be used as a portable desktop machine at a significantly lower cost than a laptop. Reply
seanleeforever - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkyes, it is called EEE pc. check it out. Reply
name99 - Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - linkYes. It's called a Mac Mini. Reply
Hulk - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkI skipped right to the section on the screen, saw it was garbage and stopped reading.
I'm not buying a laptop with a bad or even average screen. Period. I don't care what other good features it has. The screen is a deal breaker.
I want an IPS matte screen! Reply
ThomasA - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkAgreed, 100%. It's insanity to praise the laptop 'looks' , innards & "performance", when the MFG flakes on the main INTERFACE (the screen). Reply
ananduser - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkVery few laptops have that, and no the lower spec-ed and higher priced MBP does not. Reply
ggathagan - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkThank you!
People seem to forget that one of the leverage points users have is staying away in droves if the product stinks.
The same goes for 16:9 resolution screens. Reply
7Enigma - Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - linkSame here. I've become bored with laptop reviews where I feel it's been a waste of my time reading about a "great" system that has a junk screen. So like you I go to the screen review portion, and if that's good head over to the thermal/power/noise part. If both of those are acceptable then I read the entire article.
Sorry Jarred, I just can't get excited after reading very similar review systems anymore! Reply
somedude1234 - Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - link^^^^^ T H I S ^^^^^
I did the exact same thing, skipped to the best screen offering and didn't bother reading the rest of the article.
My employer provided me with a Dell E6400, everything maxed out but with the default 1280x800 screen. I would have gladly traded down to a lower spec CPU or less RAM in order to get the upgraded screen, but I didn't have a say as this is a 'standard' build for us.
Fast CPU, plenty of RAM, great backlit keyboard... and a terrible screen.
I have to use this system every single day and I'm constantly cursing the short-sighted individual in our IT department that decided a slightly faster CPU was worth more than a vastly better screen. Reply
C300fans - Monday, October 24, 2011 - link999$? I would rather grab a Thinkpad T or X with IPS. Reply
Dug - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkI'm suprised they didn't just use the 3000 for graphics. 520 doesn't do much.
I like the 6770 in the Macbook Pro's, so I would think they could at least do a 525.
Almost everyone has a 540 in a similar laptop.
Lenovo has a 550m in their's and under $700 Reply
grkhetan - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkSorry for off-topic post -- but when will the iPhone 4S review come out? Would like to see how its performance, graphics, battery life, and reception changed... Thanks! Reply
mschira - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkYea looks like a nice machine, but I just don't like the quality of Dell notebooks.
They are cheap. Fair enough, because the price is low, too, but not for me.
Now if one could take the Asus Zenbook give it a few more mm in thickness and slot in a decent CPU but keep every quality aspect - I would be very interested.
M. Reply
agent2099 - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkSeems Dell pulled the 14z from their website. This morning you could full on order it and now you can only "take a peek at what's to come." Appears like a drastic move but they may be revising it. Reply
JarredWalton - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkActually, the product probably just went up early on accident. The 14z is officially announced today, but it goes on sale on Nov. 1st. Reply
jigglywiggly - Monday, October 24, 2011 - linkwhat a pos
not 1600x900 display or 1920x1080
Weak gpus
overpriced Reply
name99 - Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - link"Dell does deserve credit for cramming a full slot-load DVD-RW into a reasonably thin chassis, although the need for optical drives seems to be diminishing with each passing year."
I honestly do not understand the mind of Dell.
They have a chance to deliver a DIFFERENT type of computer --- an ultrabook that doesn't make the compromises of a MacBook Air, but also is not burdened with useless crap like an optical drive. But no, rather than deliver something innovative, they go all in copying the MacBook Pro. Really pathetic.
(And yeah, having a USB3 port rather than a Thunderbolt port doesn't change the fact that this is a MacBook Pro clone.) Reply
ramvalleru - Tuesday, December 20, 2011 - linkApple copied the chick-let style keybord from Sony. Reply
AnnonymousCoward - Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - link1. 1366x768 glossy TN is complete crap. Use 16:10, and offer matte IPS for a reasonable cost.
2. I doubt this "space age looking keyboard" types as well as a Latitude keyboard.
3. The arrow keys aren't full size.
4. An i5 laptop deserves >2 USB ports.
5. How about offering a 120GB SSD for a reasonable +$150? Reply
TheYeti - Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - linkWe got one of these in the office a few weeks ago. The thing that we were most astounded by was the small size of the display in comparison to the size of the bottom case. The laptop was a tight fit in the same case as my 17 inch macbook pro had a roomy fit. It wouldn't fit in any of the 15 inch laptop cases that anyone in the office had.
The display has a black border, the black border has a chrome border, the hinge is not set in the back of the bottom case, but at the top the bottom case has a plastic border, the plastic border has a chrome border. all in all the exterior of all the plastics protrudes about an inch and a half from the screen edge, and it isn't a nice screen either.
When you hold it in your hands it feels like someone took a thin 17 inch laptop, stuck a 13 inch screen on it, and tried to hide the fact. Like putting those "don't drive over 45mph" spare wheels on a 4x4 so that it will fit in the garage. It has muscle and will move, but it is crippled by the screen. Reply
JarredWalton - Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - linkI'm confused... what laptop are you talking about? Certainly not the XPS 14z, and I can't recall any laptop I've seen with a 13" display that is anywhere near the size of a 17" chassis. The worst I've seen in the "small screen, large chassis" department is the Alienware M11x, which is nearly a 13" chassis. Reply
Brad4 - Tuesday, October 25, 2011 - linkI would not even accept one of these for free. The first thing I looked for was the resolution, and quickly determined that I am not interested in this sorry little laptop. A 16:9 ratio is disgusting. I'm a windows user and buy Apple because they offer a 16:10 resolution. Reply
Fanfoot - Wednesday, October 26, 2011 - linkSorry, but you don't talk about the trackpad and keyboard. I had a 15z for a while, and had to return it. In general I think it was a very nice laptop, HOWEVER the trackpad constantly reacted to bits of my palms touching it, causing the mouse pointer to jump randomly about. Plugging in an external mouse and setting it up to disable the trackpad once one is plugged in fixed that. However, as a programmer the keyboard remained an unfixable problem. The lack of unshifted home and end keys was something I simply couldn't get past. Lots of people might never notice this problem, but for a programmer I don't think the omission is acceptable. Reply
JarredWalton - Wednesday, October 26, 2011 - linkYou're right, I neglected to cover this much. I've added a paragraph specifically about the touchpad, as you're right: the 15z was more prone to errant clicks. The 15z (at least initially -- perhaps it has changed?) used a Cypress touchpad, while the 14z uses a Synaptics touchpad. There are a few extra settings on the Synaptics that help reduce the amount of errant clicks/brushes, particularly while typing. The keyboard I referenced in passing, but I've clarified a bit more why I prefer the XPS 15 layout to the 15z/14z.
Thanks for the comment! Reply
mashimaroo - Monday, October 31, 2011 - linkive had my fair share of dell laptops but this new line looks pretty good. the main problem ive had with my laptop is fan control and heating issues Reply
tipoo - Saturday, February 25, 2012 - linkYeah, I hate Dells default fan control and no applications that I know of can controll it in new Dells. It only picks from 4 or 5 speeds rather than a gradual ramp up so it can go from silent to audible on and off, its annoying. Reply


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This week we have two Titans of the adult industry coming together to steam up our camera lenses. Ricky Sinz and Doug Jeffries are here and have been looking forward to working with each other for a while now. Ricky is 31 now and originally from Chicago. Doug will be 46 this January and proudly calls Brooklyn home. We asked these two studs when the last time they felt proud of something they accomplished was. For Ricky he says everyday. 'Doing the right thing always makes you feel good' For Doug it was a couple weeks ago when he was helping out some kids that were homeless and giving them heart to heart advice on how to stay sober and out of trouble. We then asked them to think back and tell us what the best gift they'd ever received. Doug was thankful that when his father passed away, a couple years ago, he left the house he grew up in to him. That really meant a lot to him. For Ricky he doesn't really get a lot of gifts and even when it comes to giving them it's just not his thing to give material things. 'You have material things and then you have friendship' Ricky admits 'and I think 'friendship' is much more important.' We couldn't agree more, Amigo...Ricky and Doug are catching up on the couch talkin shop and industry awards each has won when Ricky confesses to Doug that he's wanted to work with him for years so he's really happy to be here. Doug calls him over as they start to make out. Doug slips to his knees and explores Ricky's hard cock tenting his shorts. Doug then turns him around and slides off Ricky's shorts to get a closer look at that ass. He spreads those cheeks wide before going in for more tongue first. Ricky moans as Doug slaps that ass as he shoves his tongue inside. Doug flicks his hot tongue on that hungry hole driving Ricky mad. Ricky then stands up and gives Doug something else to work on�his cock. Doug wraps his lips around it and takes it all the way down his throat. Doug worships that dick getting his face all up in Ricky's crotch. Then Ricky goes south to return the favor as he gags on Doug's fat dick. He works that meat with his hand and mouth wanting to please Doug. Doug has other things in mind as he gets on his back and has Ricky feed him more of that dick. Ricky squats and delivers all the meat Doug can suck on getting Doug horny for more than just oral.Doug then gets up and bends Ricky over and slides his cock in from behind. His smooth balls are soon bouncing against that hole as Ricky gives it up. Ricky is rock hard and can't help but jack his meat as Doug pounds him and talks dirty while he does. Doug impales his cock all the way in making Ricky grunt and groan. Doug slows it down a bit before he picks up the pace again bouncing Ricky back onto his dick. 'Does my dick feel good?' Doug groans as he fucks Ricky harder. 'Awww yeah' Ricky moans 'fuck me, Daddy!' He can't get enough as Doug switches it up and has Ricky ride his cock. Ricky sits on him in a reverse cowgirl as we watch his ass swallow every inch of Doug's thick cock. He bounces up and down on that dick fucking himself silly. Doug just sits back and watches as he gets his cock worked. Missionary is next as Doug gets Ricky on his back. He slides back into that hot ass and fucks Ricky steadily as he strokes his meat. It isn't long before they're both ready to blow and as Ricky jacks his load off all over his inked abs, Doug stands over him and delivers his batch as well sending his thick cargo splattering all over Ricky's chest and abs.
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The nonprofit YouthWorks offers job training to disadvantaged and at-risk youth. Specifically, young people work on projects such as river restoration and green building. For their part, Lauren Herrera, Javier Gonzales, Jose Miguel Olivas and Daniel Padilla make low-income houses more energy efficient—insulating hot water heaters, weatherizing doors and windows, and replacing aerators on shower heads. They also take cutting-edge environment and technology classes at Santa Fe Community College.
As they finish up their smokes, the group's conversation turns to Van Jones, President Obama's special advisor for green jobs. Unlike most Americans—who learned Jones' name only after he resigned in early September under pressure from right-wing conservatives—these four are familiar with what Jones was trying to accomplish.
Before joining Obama's White House team, Jones had pioneered work that emphasized green jobs, racial and economic equality, and public-private partnerships. With support from the Clinton Global Initiative, Jones also had launched Green For All, a national campaign focused on using green jobs as "pathways out of poverty."
The news that Jones was ousted from the Obama administration came as a surprise—and a disappointment to the energy crew. But there's no time to dwell on that blow. They have work to do, after all.
When it comes to actually pounding the pavement, the phrase "green jobs" sometimes falls flat, and its co-option, the phenomenon known as "greenwashing," is growing; last year, for instance, the big-box store Wal-Mart convened a Green Jobs Council. And it's not unlikely that the term will be co-opted and confused even further, particularly as cash-strapped states and communities scramble to grab a gooey piece of the federal stimulus pie, and lawmakers try to appease constituents worried about either the economy or the environment—or both. In New Mexico, the state's plentiful solar and wind resources, combined with a cheap labor force and plenty of developable land, have lawmakers and resource specialists touting the state's ability to become a nationwide leader in the new green economy. The New Mexico congressional delegation is also highlighting work by the state's nuclear weapons laboratories, hoping the nuclear pork that has poured into the state for decades might be replaced with funding for renewable energy and climate-change research.
But as the economy continues to stagger and the effects of climate change become more obvious, many on the local front lines of the green-jobs movement believe the chasm between rhetoric and reality also grows more discernible. They say the state's best hope for transformation—environmental and economic—may lie with its youth.
If they get the opportunity.


text:
- Press Releases
- Remarks of Louis Freeh in Conjunction with Announcement of Publication of Report Regarding the Pennsylvania State University
Remarks of Louis Freeh in Conjunction with Announcement of Publication of Report Regarding the Pennsylvania State University
Thomas Davies/Jeremy Fielding/Stef Goodsell
Kekst and Company
Philadelphia, PA, July 12, 2012 – Louis Freeh today issued prepared remarks in conjunction with today's publication of his report of the investigation into the facts and circumstances of the actions of The Pennsylvania State University surrounding the child abuse committed by a former employee, Gerald A. Sandusky. Mr. Freeh will summarize these remarks during his press conference at 10 a.m. today.
Mr. Freeh and his law firm, Freeh Sporkin & Sullivan, LLP, were retained in November 2011 on behalf of the Special Investigations Task Force of the Board of Trustees of The Pennsylvania State University to conduct the independent investigation.
The full text of the remarks follows:
I. Introduction
Good Morning. We are here today because a terrible tragedy was allowed to occur over many years at Penn State University, one in which many children were repeatedly victimized and gravely harmed. Our hearts and prayers are with the many children – now young men – who were the victims of a now convicted serial pedophile. I want to remind everyone here, and those watching this press conference, of the
need to report child sexual abuse to the authorities. In Pennsylvania you can report child sexual abuse to the Department of Public Welfare's ChildLine. That number – which is on the screen before you – is (800) 932-0313. It is our hope that this report and subsequent actions by Penn State will help to bring every victim some relief and support.
Penn State University is an outstanding educational institution, which is rightly proud of its students, alumni, faculty and staff, who, in turn, hold the institution in very high esteem. We understand and respect their support and loyalty, and the spirit of community surrounding the University, which we witnessed first-hand during our seven and one half months of work on the Penn State campus. We also fully appreciate the strong emotions which surround these tragic matters and our work. All of us here today understand that it is the duty of adults to protect children and to immediately report any suspected child sexual abuse to law enforcement authorities. Our team was reminded of this on a daily basis because Henderson South, our base at Penn State, was the former Child Care Center at State College, with some of the children's art work still in the space.
Continue reading the full statement.


text:
AMD's Quad FX: Technically Quad Coreby Anand Lal Shimpi on 11/30/2006 1:16 PM EST
- Posted in
- CPUs
88 Comments
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VooDooAddict - Saturday, December 02, 2006 - linkIt strikes me as odd that you haven't reviewed a Dual Xeon 5300 system.
While the motherboards aren't geared toward the enthusiast. It would seem anyone who could really benefit from two Dual core Athlon FXs would get incredibly more bang for the $$ out of a Dual Xeon 5300 system giving them 8 cores on an established and sure to be supported platform.
I only see two major drawbacks to the Dual Xeon as opposed to 4x4.
You don't have access to SLI. That's unimportant though as people who want SLI would be better served with an Intel QX6700 on an NVIDIA 680i.
You need FB-DIMMs. Considering the expense you are already at with any Dual CPU system, and the types of activities you'd need to be doing to get real benefit. ECC probably wouldn't be a bad thing to have.
I'd love to see a review of a Xeon 5300 System with a 8800GTX. Reply
yyrkoon - Friday, December 08, 2006 - linkTo the best of my knowledge ECC memory is usually slower compared to non ECC memory. Also, if I didn't read it here, I read it somewhere else, not only is FB-DIMM memory more expensive, it also does not perform as well compared to standard DDR2 memory.
I think, for now, if you're wanting the best of both PC/server worlds, you would have to settle for a motherboard similar to Asus' Workstation, or Pro line. However, you would still be stuck with a single CPU, with multiple cores, but you would have SLI, PCI-X, and 2-3 PCI 2.3 slots :) As for memory quantity, anything more than 4 GB on a 32 bit OS is a waste (unless you use the right OS with the equivalent of the /PEA boot option, which I understand can cause some system instabilities) Reply
yyrkoon - Friday, December 01, 2006 - linkAs far as I can remember, using multiple CPUs (as in socket, not core), has always shown diminishing returns. In fact, I think I remember reading something to that effect here on this web site (or maybe it was TH?). Regardless, having several Dual CPU boxen around, and have had the chance to play around with a few Quad CPU systems, I've seen this with my own two eyes.
I did not start reading this article with the belief that AMDs solution would beat an Intel quad setup, but I did have hopes that AMDS system would be at least feasible. The way I see it, from these results, AMD should have never even bothered with this design, and would have better spent their time working on future technology.
A few more mistakes like this, and pretty soon the only choice we're going to have is Intel, and it doesn't matter which company you buy from. We all should be hoping this never happens. My current system right now, is an AM2 system, and I have to say, I'm a bit miffed at AMD for leaving customers like myself out in the cold, when it comes to performance CPUs. So now, since I spent less than $200 for my current Motherboard / CPU, I think I'll Leave AMD in the dust (before they get the chance to do the same to me), and opt for an Intel system board, and CPU, for my next upgrade. Reply
stepz - Sunday, December 03, 2006 - link
he way I see it, from these results, AMD should have never even bothered with this design, and would have better spent their time working on future technology.
To be fair, the engineering effort was close to zero. They sell almost exactly the same stuff as Opterons, only in shinier boxes and surrounded by a lot more nonsense buzzwords. This product is brought to you mainly by the marketing department. Reply
fitten - Friday, December 01, 2006 - link
As far as I can remember, using multiple CPUs (as in socket, not core), has always shown diminishing returns.
Amdahl's Law. Reply
T Rush - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkI'm really not that thrilled to see a brand new Intel CPU barely squeak by a similar config from AMD that is using a CPU architecture that is over 4 years old
I just gave Anand Lal Shimpi's article a closer inspection, we do see an advantage to the new Intel Core2 Q 65nm Kentsfield, but its not as large as I think it should be compared to the AMD64 90nm K8/Hammer dual cores times two...and however the pricing also doesn't reflect the large advantage you would expect to find with a newer more efficient design: as tested the two FX-74's are priced the same as the Extreme QX6700, and then next we see that two FX-72's under pricing the coming Quad Q6600 by a noticeable amount, and last we don't see a Quad Core2 to compete with the two FX-70's at the lowest $599 for the pair...I would expect the newer tech to not only be a much better performer, but also less expensive as well
....but to my surprise Shimpi almost caused me to fall out of my chair when I got to the last page and one of his biggest complaints was the higher price of the competition's motherboard!!!!, this to him seems to be a problem for AMD now, but the Intel systems he has tested before he was willing to overlook....here with this comparison he has a problem with the total system cost(mobo+cpus) being higher do to the motherboard being over one third more expensive as tested; $370(which he later even 'rounds up' to $400) for the AMD vs. $260 for the Intel, looking at $110 difference
....oddly with even his own widely revered "Tremendous Value Through Overclocking" that he wrote, where the focus is in fact "Value"(not something that I would think is "as big" of an issue when looking at the highest priced/performing/featured/etc. systems that you could possibly buy today) he completely was not bothered by the fact that he was using a $250 motherboard for the "Value" Intel CPUs at as much as $120 difference more to the $130 AMD board he used where value was a factor in that earlier case ..what!!! Reply
fitten - Friday, December 01, 2006 - linkWell... the parts that "barely squeak by" are also running at only 80% of the clock frequency... 2.4GHz Q6600 compared to 3.0GHz AMD FX... and Intel's Core2 architecture seems to have plenty of headroom to go to higher clockspeeds on Intel's whim... 3.6GHz overclocks are pretty common with the Core2Duo parts (and the Quad parts are the same exact cores).
There's no doubt that the Core2 architecture from Intel is the largest CPU performance bump in a number of years... previous years were almost stagnant as we saw 200MHz to 400MHz clock frequency increases on the same cores as the previous year. Core2 was a performance jump that was similar to the days of the Pentium3 timeframe. Reply
T Rush - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkwas anyone really expecting AMD's "4X4" system using two CPUs built using the 4 or 5 year old K8/Hammer CPU architecture to out-perform Intel's latest release using its newest recent Core2 architecture?...I would hope not
...if anything Intel should have been able to pull off a much larger victory in price and performance....where the only clear major advantage that shows the large difference you would expect to see when comparing very new tech to much older was with the power consumption, which I wouldn't think is that great of concern with any system that is running four cores and most likely dual high end video cards(or more) in a "all out" highest performing/benchmarking gaming desktop system
the over all win does go to the Intel on this dual dual core battle..but personally I would have liked to of seen a much broader margin before putting all my eggs in one basket as many will do
cryptonomicon - Friday, December 01, 2006 - linkThats an incredible amount of power... 450w!! Now that's what I need to keep my room warm this winter :D Reply
JarredWalton - Friday, December 01, 2006 - linkYou can overclock an E6300 even higher on a lot of P965 boards than on the $225 ASUS P5W DH. The motherboard chosen was used for consistency in benchmarking, not because it is the recommended "budget overclocking" motherboard for socket 775. As for QX6700 barely outperforming FX-74, there's a couple of things to keep in mind. First, you can't buy the AMD chips yet, whereas QX6700 is actually available (albeit a bit expensive). Second, the past indicates that 3.0 GHz is pretty clearly to limit of AMD's current chips on 90 nm.
Meanwhile you have QX6700 systems shipping factory overclocked at 3.33 GHz and beyond. Sure, with that level of overclocking, the power draw might actually begin to be similar between the two platforms. However, a 25% overclock of a Core 2 Quad certainly isn't going to close the margins. And given that these are indigenous platforms we are talking about, overclocking is going to be far more common than not I would say.
I'm not sure on Q6600 pricing either (since it's not available), though I've heard at least one rumor suggest the price has dropped to around $500. Guess we'll wait and see there as well. Basically, we are see Core 2 Quad beat AMD's latest and greatest in almost every test, without even pushing the clock speed limits. In seven months, we can evaluate again, and maybe AMD will have the lead.
Basically, we should expect the margin of victory to be slightly lower with a single socket quad core going up against dual socket dual core then it was with Core 2 Duo going up against Athlon X2. The dual sockets give more memory bandwidth, so particularly when running a NUMA aware operating system, things should be pretty close when comparing FX-74 against QX6700. AMD was basically able to close the performance gap somewhat by throwing more power and hardware at the problem, sort of similar to what Intel did with Pentium D. It wasn't a good solution when Intel did it, and it's not a good solution now. It is "OK" at best. Reply
JarredWalton - Friday, December 01, 2006 - linkYay for speech recognition!
indigenous = enthusiast
we are see = we are seeing
Scratch a couple "basically" from the last paragraph. Reply
yyrkoon - Friday, December 01, 2006 - linkI though Gary was the "one" with the Texas "Twang" ;) Reply
laok - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkThe current 4x4 does not look to be a mature system to me. Wait until 65nm 4x4 comes out and hopefully a better chipset will be available at that time. 65W x 2 is reasonable, 130W x2 is kinda too much.
And I also want to know how 4x4 compares to dual dual-core opteron with the same frequence: performance, power consumption etc.
DigitalFreak - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkIt's the same chip as the Opteron, with the memory controller changed to work with unbuffered memory. Reply
JarredWalton - Friday, December 01, 2006 - linkThe first word of his subject is the best advice: WAIT! Even if the future might get better, does anyone want to spend $1000+ on what may or may not turn out to be the better platform? When the new CPUs are available, then we can evaluate and decide. Of course, once AMD launches their quad core processors, I'm almost certain that our advice will be that most people only need a single socket motherboard and CPU anyway -- if that. Many people still get by a single core CPU, and the number of people that actually need more than dual CPUs is very small, at least in the desktop workspace. Reply
DigitalFreak - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkThis is the best AMD can do against Kentsfield? They get stomped on in every benchmark, cost more, and draw nearly twice as much power. No one in their right mind would buy this over a Core2Quad. Whomever came up with this product should be fired.
The last time I laughed this hard at a CPU/platform launch was when Intel rolled out the P4 dual core CPUs, and at least they came out on time in some of the multimedia benchmarks.
For the record, my current system is running an Opteron 165, so I ain't no Intel fanboy. Reply
photoguy99 - Friday, December 01, 2006 - linkYou're right it's actually embarrasing isn't it?
If AMD's next-gen architecture improves performance by 30% at same clock, which is huge, they still won't take the lead.
And it seems Intel is done sitting on their hands, they are working like hell to dominate again by the time K8L ramps up big.
People hate hearing this but think it's over for AMD.
And like you, for the record, my current system is an FX-60 so I'm also no Intel fanboy. Reply
DigitalFreak - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - link...came out on top... Reply
photoguy99 - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkSeriously, I'd like to know who is selling them... Reply
Furen - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkThat such a badly engineered product was rushed out to reviewers just to have a paper launch. Did AMD believe that no one would make a big deal about the power draw? Or maybe it expected no one to even look at power draw. I was actually impressed by what AMD had accomplished with 4x4, after all, the 3.0GHz Quad FX parts were close to the QX6700, until I saw the insane power draw. Two loaded FX-62 systems (whole systems, mind you) draw about the same power as 4x4 does IDLE! Reply
mino - Friday, December 01, 2006 - linkIf you would bother to read, you would see those IDLE numbers are Without C'n'C.
Witch C'n'C the IDLE number is be more like 250W than 380W. Reply
mino - Sunday, December 03, 2006 - linkHell, I should REALLY read after myself more thoroughly... Reply
JKing76 - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkWhat have you got against pickup trucks? Reply
Genx87 - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkI think it is safe to say Intel has caught AMD with its pants down this round with their Core 2 Duo line of products. Intels product line is much more compelling and performance\watt is scary good for Intel.
Hell Intel's offering must be good, it got me to buy their product for the first time in nearly a decade! ;) Reply
mino - Friday, December 01, 2006 - linkActually not.
AMD has caught Intel pants down in 2003. It took Intel 3!!! years to come back to game.
Those 3 yrs Intel was NOT price competitive.
Intel has just caught up in midle of 2006, this was to be expected and WAS expected by AMD.
AMD is about to catch up to Intel after 1 year..
This 1 year AMD IS price competitive, hence it is still in the game..
The 2008 Intel CSI may catch AMD with pants down. May.
Actually, in 2008 AMD will have some 30-35% marketshare and be so well entrenched in the corporate market that some mild performance(as now) hiccup is not gonna hurt them in any serious manner. Reply
Roy2001 - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkIf you need quad-core/CPU system, kentsfield is a much better choice, no question asked. Reply
sprockkets - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkWhy is it that just putting the other 2 cores on the same package reduces power consumption so much?
Anyhow, yeah, Intel is ahead, though this would be good for servers, not for desktops. Even so, Intel for now is still better.
But, I found for perhaps 90% of all people, an old s754 board with a $45 dollar Sempron works fast enough. I wish Anand would check out the new C7 processor mini ITX boards to see how well it works for so little power consumption. Reply
Furen - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkThe QX6700 pretty much draws twice as much power as the E6700, the big benefit of going for quad-core in a single system is that you only have one motherboard, harddrive, one set of RAM sticks, one video card, etc. The 4x4 is horribly engineered, I think even 400W at load is too much for two Opterons at 3GHz. Reply
mino - Friday, December 01, 2006 - linkTwo Opterons DO NOT employ 8000GTX usually ...
Two Opterons do have 95W TDP(lower voltage) ... compared to 125W for FXs
Two Opterons are available in 68W TDP ...
Two Opterons are NOT available in 3GHz flavour ....
Two Opterons are twice as expensive .... Reply
Furen - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkThe 4x4 motherboard, that is... Reply
JarredWalton - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkWhy is it that just putting the other 2 cores on the same package reduces power consumption so much?
It doesn't. Core 2 Duo uses less power than Athlon FX-62, so two of them are going to use less than two FX-62 (or whatever) chips. Now, adding the second socket also adds additional voltage regulation circuitry, so the second socket will increase the power load, but I don't think the second socket accounts for more than a 20W power increase, and probably more like 10W. Reply
Slaimus - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkThe odd thing for this platform is that the single CPU is actually really cheap versus comparable products. If only server boards can take these CPUs. Reply
Beachboy - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkI wonder how many diehard AMD enthusiats will want to split a set of these "quads". Reply
mino - Friday, December 01, 2006 - linkCount me in!
IMHO enthusiast forums are will be full of guys sharing the CPU purchase... :) Reply
peternelson - Friday, December 01, 2006 - linkVery likely eg I would and thought of that, knowing the guys on forums I frequent ;-)
The other option is just buy two motherboard/systems and put each of the paired cpus into each one.
rqle - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkBest case scenario.
100% price reduction in mainboard
Assume these FX cpu perform as well as QCore
Price it Similar to Performance
Major Power Reduction
Assume it a windows error =/ , no clue why you would run server software and e-commerce over softwares/games on this platform
I still have a very hard time recommended this setup to an enthusiast. Already have a hard time reaching 3.0ghz, it going to have a very hard time going just 10% beyond that. The upper limit of AMD cpu doesn't impress me right now. Cheapo Intel Core 2, with an overclocker in mind seem to have more potential.
photoguy99 - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkI generally agree with your logic -
But even your best case scenario is impossible because two 90 process CPUs have never come close to the power comsumption of a single 65 process CPU at the same performance. Reply
mino - Friday, December 01, 2006 - linkDepends. EE X2's are more efficient than C2D's. Even performance wise.
Not even comparing IDLE C'n'Q and EIST enabled .... Reply
Anonymous Freak - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkOf course they'll sell more FX processors now than before. There was literally nothing to differentiate them before, other than clock speed. That, plus now they'll sell two for every computer built with them.
But, I have a feeling that the FX processors are going to be even more niche than they were before. Before, it was at least a high end normal processor. Someone could buy a midrange system, and upgrade to an FX later. Now, you have to decide up front that you're going to pay a fortune for the computer. Presently, I have an el-cheapo $99 motherboard that I put my old Pentium 4 in. If I want, I can slap a Quad-Core Core 2 Extreme in there. I can't do that with AMD's setup.
I'm not an Intel fanboy, either. The only reason I even have the Pentium 4 is because a friend gave it to me free when he upgraded his system. I was perfectly happy with my laptop and my AthlonXP 1700+. But a free 3.8 GHz processor is a free 3.8 GHz processor. I went and bought the cheapest motherboard and memory I could find. Spent about $200, and I can upgrade to quad core anytime I want. (Although I'll probably upgrade from the onboard video to a decent PCI-E card first.) Reply
photoguy99 - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - link
Of course they'll sell more FX processors now than before
I don't know man, why would they sell any more?
To sell more someone would have to buy this "Ford Excursion" of a system. But who is going to buy this?
What boutique shop is going to even sell it?
Is there one single person here who is planning to get one? Reply
peternelson - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - link
I image www.Scan.co.uk in the UK will stock both boards and cpus at realistic street pricing.
And I am seriously thinking of getting one, to put lots of PCIe cards into, and for use WITH A NUMA AWARE OPERATING SYSTEM.
Who knows, Asus may even release a bios upgrade for it!
And also note that there is a similar Asus "Deluxe" board not just the WS workstation variant, so may be a little cheaper.
My other options are a dual socket Opteron board (with expensive memory) or a Core2Quad, using Nvidia 680i chipset which gives less I/O capacity.
Anonymous Freak - Friday, December 01, 2006 - linkOr, you could go for a dual socket Xeon system. It would cost near the same, and you'd have the option of two quad-core processors RIGHT NOW. (Rather than late next year.)
Of course, then you run into more expensive (and more power-hungry) memory. But if you are actually looking at such a system, a Xeon might be a better fit. Reply
mino - Friday, December 01, 2006 - linkThe problem IS the memory and I/O, these are the strenghts of this solution.
Prices of cheap 4C WS solutions:
HIGHEST PERFORMANCE 4C: -> systems have comparable performance (Vista/XPx64 in account)
***Quad FX:
1pc FX-74 $1000
1pc MB $350
4pcs 1G RAM $400
1pc Fortron PSU $100
0pcs 8-port SATA controller $0
Total: $1750
***Core 2 Quad:
1pc QX6700 $1000
1pc MB $250
4pcs 1G RAM $400
1pc Fortron PSU $60
1pc 8-port SATA controller $150
Total: $1860
BEST VALUE 4C: -> systems have comparable performance[except QX6700] (Vista/XPx64 in account)
***Quad FX:
1pc FX-70 $600
1pc MB $350
4pcs 1G RAM $400
1pc Fortron PSU $100
0pcs 8-port SATA controller $0
Total: $1350
***Core 2 Quad:
1pc QX6700 $1000
1pc MB $250
4pcs 1G RAM $400
1pc Fortron PSU $60
1pc 8-port SATA controller $150
Total: $1860
***Opteron 2000:
2pcs 2216 $1200
1pc MB $400
4pcs 1G RAM $600
1pc Fortron PSU $100
1pc 8-port SATA controller $150
Total: $2450
***Xeon 5100:
2pcs 5150 $1200
1pc MB $400
4pcs 1G RAM $700
1pc Fortron PSU $100
1pc 8-port SATA controller $150
Total: $2550
IDEAL WS/PC Solution: (best value proposition, upgrade possible when necessary)
1/2pcs FX-70 $300
1pc MB $350
2pcs 1G RAM $200
1pc Fortron PSU $60
0pcs 8-port SATA controller $0
Total: $910
The funny thing beeing, the biggest value of QuadFX is in the exceptional motherboard. Except those those 10 not routed USB ports, that board is a dream come true.
And yes, those 12 SATA3G ports would be a blessing for my storage needs... Reply
peternelson - Friday, December 01, 2006 - link
Nice costings, I'm thinking the same here.
That board has lots of I/O bandwidth.
Since the Gbit ether ports support teaming (2 muxed together), I would have thought it worthwhile for Asus to implement all four rather than two.
Four used separately would make nice routing between lans, and four used as two teamed pairs would give > 1Gbps performance in and out eg as a firewall, or as a server with redundant connection, or to talk to NAS boxes etc. Two extra nets wouldn't push the power consumption up by much.
Hopefully Asus (or other) will produce a rev2 board with the extra ethernets.
Lonyo - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - link
You also get all twelve SATA ports, but there's only support for ten USB ports and two GigE ports. Obviously the number of people that will complain about not having all twenty USB ports and four GigE ports are limited, but with AMD expecting the L1N64-SLI WS to retail for around $370, we wanted all of the bells and whistles.
There's support for 14 USB ports AFAIK, 4 on the back, and 5 headers on the mobo, which makes 14 I think, which still isn't 20, but it's more than enough, and it's more than 10 :P Reply
mino - Friday, December 01, 2006 - linkNo, those 2 headers are for IEEE1394... Reply
SLIM - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkIs this just a prelim review only talking about the processors and the real review is still to come? I mean the only reason for this platform to exist is the 4 GPUs not the cpus. Let's see 4 8800gtx's with the FX74s playing at insane resolutions in games that intel simply can't fathom due to the lack of support for 4 gpus (at least as far as I know of).
The 4 gpus are the point of this platform, not power consumption, not 3dsmax... GAMES WITH 4 GPUS! I don't mean to be too abrupt, but the boards got 4 graphics slots for a reason. Reply
Spoelie - Friday, December 01, 2006 - linkA single 8800gtx is already being bottlenecked by a core 2, let alone them in SLI.
Quad SLI will not have any performance advantage over SLI, as the processing power to feed them is just not there. Reply
PrinceGaz - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkI dread to think what the power consumption of a system with the FX-74s and four 8800GTX cards would be. It would probably be close to 1KW, possibly even around 1100W or so. That would be insane! Reply
JarredWalton - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkGiven that this "4x4" initiative is apparently going to use NVIDIA graphics cards, and NVIDIA makes both AMD and Intel chipsets, if they decide to do anything with quad G80 chips you can pretty much guarantee that it will be for both platforms. Thus, 4x4 is really 2x2 right now, whereas the 775 platform is 1x4 and Xeon is 2x4. In the future, AMD will have 2x4, and perhaps all the platforms will support some silly quad GPU configuration.
Basically, quad SLI was all about the pissing contest. "Oh yeah, well I have for GPUs and you only have two!" Then there was the completely bogus marketing material that they sent out with quad SLI talking about how great the extra GPUs would be for accelerating physics calculations. I suppose it's possible that in the future such applications will become useful, but almost a year after the initial talk of NVIDIA physics acceleration and we have yet to see any actual demonstration of this capability. Anyway, this Quad FX is just the same thing as Quad SLI: potentially good marketing, but lackluster final performance and terrible heat and power requirements. Reply
Viditor - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - link
if they decide to do anything with quad G80 chips you can pretty much guarantee that it will be for both platforms
If they can...
The 680a chipset has a direct HT link to each MCP, the 680i obviously can't do that and must bridge through the SPP.
Anyway, this Quad FX is just the same thing as Quad SLI: potentially good marketing, but lackluster final performance and terrible heat and power requirements
Now if only we could find a review that actually showed that...;)
Seriously, the one major benefit of Quad FX is that it can run 4 GPUs. While I appreciate all of the conjecture and speculation, it isn't really a test of the facts, is it? Reply
defter - Friday, December 01, 2006 - link<quote>Seriously, the one major benefit of Quad FX is that it can run 4 GPUs.</quote>
How that's a benefit? You can have 8 GPUs in a same system (AMD or Intel based, it doesn't matter) with a couple of NVIDIA Quadro Plex 1000 Model II's if money isn't an issue:
JarredWalton - Friday, December 01, 2006 - linkFact: Quad SLI (7950 GX2) works on 590 SLI and 680i.
Fact: Quad SLI (8800 GTX) does not exist.
Until the second item changes, we only have the first to go on, which is that current quad SLI works - at least as much as it works anywhere - on both platforms. And the QSLI drivers are still largely broken - you can run benchmarks, but as soon as you start playing lots of games rather than just benching, problems crop up. Neverwinter Nights 2 for example doesn't even run properly with CrossFire or SLI, so let's not even worry about getting QSLI support for now. Reply
JackPack - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - link8800 GTX requies two slots, which means it won't fit in the 4x4 motherboard. Quad-SLI performance has already shown to be poor using two 7950 GX2 cards. Finally, how do you bridge four 8800 cards together? Reply
Viditor - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - link
8800 GTX requies two slots, which means it won't fit in the 4x4 motherboard
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2006/11/08/nvidia...">Single slot 8800 GTX
Quad-SLI performance has already shown to be poor using two 7950 GX2 cards
This is only when using a single MCP, the 680a uses dual MCPs.
The 680i uses one MCP and one SPP.
Finally, how do you bridge four 8800 cards together?
By having 2 sets of bridges (one bridge per MCP). Reply
JarredWalton - Friday, December 01, 2006 - linkQuad SLI has problems whether or not you have dual MCPs. It's driver and software related - basically the drivers don't do AFR on a lot of titles and so you end up with lower than 7900 GTX SLI performance.
As for two slots, they're talking the width of the cards. They only plug into one slot, but they fill the adjacent slot. Quad 8800 GTX would require eight expansion slots right now. Given that Vista 8800 drivers aren't even out yet, I think NVIDIA has other things to do before they worry about moving beyond SLI'ed 8800 cards. Reply
PrinceGaz - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkI suppose you could replace the HSF with something smaller which would fit in a single-slot, which would have to mean water-cooling.
Quad-SLI performance (or lack of) is probably a driver-issue.
Don't 8800 cards have two SLI sockets therefore allowing you to chain together as many as you like (in theory)? Reply
casket - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkIt appears with win-xp sp2... this quad fx stinks. How about Win 2003 or Vista Ultimate? It might change things drastically. Reply
Neosis - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkI don't think the problems in the benchmarks are not an opperating system issue. Two processors having totally four cores are not the same as a processor having the same number of cores. Additional latencies will slow down the performance. Reply
Viditor - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - link
I don't think the problems in the benchmarks are not an opperating system issue
Actually, they probably are...Windows XP is not NUMA aware, while Vista is.
Two processors having totally four cores are not the same as a processor having the same number of cores. Additional latencies will slow down the performance
In this case there is no difference...the Kentsfield has exactly the same latency as a 2 socket dual core because the 2 dual cores on-board don't talk directly with each other. Reply
Neosis - Friday, December 01, 2006 - link
the Kentsfield has exactly the same latency as a 2 socket dual core because the 2 dual cores on-board don't talk directly with each other.
However (in my opinion) since all these four cores share the same 8MB L2 cache and Intel's memory disambiguation forces all cores to use L2 cache more, additional latencies are not significant as the Amd's 4x4 platform. But you are right again that connecting the dies through the FSB requires all die to die communication to go back to the Northbridge and into the system memory. That can be a serios perfomance issue when Amd has competing processers. Reply
mino - Friday, December 01, 2006 - linkKentsfield == 2 Conroes stuck on 1 FSB. They have _separate_ 4M L2 cache. No 8M L2 on the horizon.. Reply
Neosis - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkWhere is edit button?
The first sentence should be "I think ..." Reply
Neosis - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkI don't think AMD can compete with Kenstfield even with this platform. Enthuiasts usually don't care power consumption and heat problems. A water cooling system (with a large radiator and a strong pump) will do just good. The main concern is neither the power consumption nor the heat problems. When you install two dual core processor, you are going to have performance down due to the increased latency. Nearly in all benchmarks Intel is leading. No suprise that only one motherboard manufacturer was in on.
Even though I'm an AMD user, I don't see any particular reason people will buy this. But I can say why not:
- no one knows how long Amd will support this platform. In the past years Amd has beem changing sockets almost each year and half. We know Socket Am3 will use Ddr3.
- pricing Reply
Griswold - Saturday, December 02, 2006 - link
- no one knows how long Amd will support this platform. In the past years Amd has beem changing sockets almost each year and half. We know Socket Am3 will use Ddr3.
Well the first part isnt quite true or very precise, as for the second part, we also know that AM3 CPUs will run in AM2 sockets (but not vice versa). On top of that, we're talking about Socket F here and not AMx.
If you want to name a good reason to not buy this: The other option is just that much better. End of story. If you want quad AMD, wait 6 months. Reply
Gigahertz19 - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkOn black Friday I was at Circuit City and some store employee near me was telling this woman who was looking for a computer to make sure she buys a computer with a AMD processor because their faster and all around better. I couldn't stand there and let him lie to that woman so I went over there and told her she needs to buy a comp with a Core 2 Duo and gave my reasons. Then the Circuit City guy went into this rant about AMD and the 5000+ processor and how it's the best, haha apparently he hasn't updated his knowledge for quite sometime. I could of stood there and argued it but I just said okay and walked away, didn't walk to make a scene...plus how geeky would that be arguing over processors in the middle of a store where customers are.
Anyways looks like Intel Core 2 Duo tech is the thing to get. I'm stilling running a old XP-M overclocked with a DFI Socket A mobo. I want to upgrade to Core 2 Duo sometime soon probably get the Core 2 E6600 only because it has 4Mb cache and the slower speed ones don't. Overclock that baby to 3GHz which should be a given with the right mobo like the Evga one and I'll have a awesome system, probably buy a X1950 XT or Pro for around $250 then upgrade to DX10 when it gets cheaper. Reply
madnod - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linki am really into AMD and i was buying AMD since the last 4 years, but this time intel isreally pushing ahead.
there is a major thing that intel is doing these days and it's really funny to see the way AMD is responding to that, it kinda remind me of the 3DFX approach, start stacking more things that u already have and wish that things will be better.
AMD should expedite their transition to the newer CPU desgin, the current K8 architecture can't keep up with the core technology.
THX - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkVery nice tests. I can't believe the power draw AMD is dealing with here. Reply
Ecmaster76 - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkThe pin count of AM2 probably isn't an issue. It has as many pins as 940 which can handle multiple HT links and dual channel memory.
AMD just moved it tot he other socket to people from buying the bundled CPUs and selling them individually for a profit. The 2.6 GHz model for example runs about $100 less per chip than the standard X2 does. Reply
punjabiplaya - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkAre we going to see updated benchmarks with 64 bit performance and/or Vista and when there is a BIOS fix for the NUMA issues on the board (not the WinXP shortfalls as far as NUMA is concerned, Vista should take care of that)?
Just curious. Reply
Nighteye2 - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkI'm interested in that as well. NUMA will be an important part of 4x4 performance - so why isn't NUMA used in the benchmark, or at least mentioned. NUMA is the advantage of having 2 sockets - having NUMA disabled in this benchmark by using an OS that does not support it unfairly cripples the 4x4 performance.
Viditor - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - link
NUMA will be an important part of 4x4 performance - so why isn't NUMA used in the benchmark, or at least mentioned
Agreed...I think that one of the reasons that AMD delayed release of this so long is that they wanted to show it on Vista instead of WinXP. It seems to me that there would be a substantial difference between the 2... Reply
Viditor - Thursday, November 30, 2006 - linkAs a follow up on just how important NUMA is for 4x4, check out http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pag...">this review which actually compares the 2...
There is a DRASTIC difference between performance on XP and Vista! Reply
Accord99 - Friday, December 01, 2006 - linkMost of the difference is running in 64-bit mode. The extra bandwidth didn't help the FX-74 in the megatasking bench. They didn't do any game benchmarks but based on past reviews of NUMA, the FX-74 will probably keep on losing to the FX-62 in games. Reply
Viditor - Friday, December 01, 2006 - link
Most of the difference is running in 64-bit mode
I'm not sure I agree...there's a 22.5% increase in performance there, and I haven't seen anything like that on the 64 bit version of 3DS Max before...
Not to mention that Vista isn't known as a real speed demon (quite the opposite) for these apps...
What the 64bit version does is allow for larger scene use and stability, not so much faster rendering. Reply
photoguy99 - Friday, December 01, 2006 - link
I'm not sure I agree...there's a 22.5% increase in performance there, and I haven't seen anything like that on the 64 bit version of 3DS Max before...
Sorry totally wrong -
64-bit can make a big difference in performance depending on the app. Remember you can process 64 bits of data in a typical instruction instead of 32, so theoretically twice as much pixel data at a time for rendering.
Some apps may not show the full benefit it depends on how they are coded and compiled, but it's definitely a real potential for speedup.
Bottom line is 64-bit could easily account for a bigger performance increase than NUMA.
Kiijibari - Friday, December 01, 2006 - link
64-bit can make a big difference in performance depending on the app. Remember you can process 64 bits of data in a typical instruction instead of 32, so theoretically twice as much pixel data at a time for rendering.
I'm not sure I agree...there's a 22.5% increase in performance there, and I haven't seen anything like that on the 64 bit version of 3DS Max before...
You see that he refers already to 3DS MAX .. I have not investigated this, but if he refers to it, then I trust him on that one ...
Futhermore I miss synthetical Sandra Mem bandwidth benches .. these should easily show what is going on there ...
Anyways a 4x4 review without mentioning the XP - NUMA problem is just not worth reading it ... Sorry Anand ...
Kiijibari Reply
Anand Lal Shimpi - Friday, December 01, 2006 - linkThe performance deficit seen when running latency sensitive single and dual threaded applications exists even in a NUMA-aware OS (I've confirmed this under Vista). I'm still running tests under Vista but as far as I see, running in a NUMA-aware OS doesn't seem to change the performance picture at all.
Take care,
Anand Reply
Kiijibari - Saturday, December 02, 2006 - linkHi Anand,
first of all, thanks for your reply.
Then, if there is really no performance difference, then I would double check the BIOS, if you have really disabled node interleave.
Furthermore there seems to be a BIOS bug, with the SRAT ACPI tables, which are necessary for NUMA. It would be nice, if you can dig up some more information about that topic.
Clearly, that would be not your fault, but AMD's.
Kiijibari Reply
Anand Lal Shimpi - Saturday, December 02, 2006 - linkFrom what I can tell the Node Interleave option in the BIOS is doing something. Disabling it (enabling NUMA) results in lower latencies than leaving it enabled, but still not as slow as running with a single socket.
CPU-Z offers the following latencies for the three configurations:
2S, NUMA On: 168 cycles
2S, NUMA Off: 205 cycles
1S: 131 cycles
From my discussions with AMD last week, this behavior is expected. I will do some more digging to see if there's anything else I'm missing though.
Take care,
Anand Reply
BikeDude - Tuesday, December 05, 2006 - linkCould the reason be that 1GB per memory node is simply too little?
On a configuration like this, you'll easily see one of the nodes with only 256MB or so left...
So, put in some more memory! At this point 32-bit XP will be limiting, even for 32-bit apps. (XP won't address more than 2^32 Bytes, some of this will be masked by PCI and PCIe devices, and additionally each process only has a 2GB address space for code&data unless you upgrade to 64-bit Windows) Also be aware that nVidia ForceWare 80.00 and newer lost PAE support. You'll experience crashes and non-working games if combined with a PAE aware 32-bit OS (such as Win2003). ForceWare 79.11 works fine though.
(BTW: MSFT added NUMA support in XP SP2) Reply
Kiijibari - Saturday, December 02, 2006 - linkHi Ananand,
sounds credible, because there is some extra cache snooping traffic going on, anyways, please keep us posted if there is a new BIOS version available, and if it would "do" something :)
Windows schweduler differences between XP and VISTA would be interesting, too.
So far there were only Win32 XP vs. Win Vista64 comparisions, not possible to draw a fair conclusion with that data.
Thanks a lot
Kiijibari Reply
mino - Friday, December 01, 2006 - linkOne important question:
Are those new FX-7x CPU identical or is there some differentiation employed ??? Reply
Kiijibari - Saturday, December 02, 2006 - linkidentical to what ?
If you meant Socket-F Opterons, then yes, they are identical, if the BIOS allows it, then normal Opterons should be able to run in 4x4 boards, too.
Kiijibari Reply
mino - Sunday, December 03, 2006 - linkThanks that info(if correct) pretty much clears the FUD. Reply
Griswold - Saturday, December 02, 2006 - linkHow so? The 2P+ Opteron IMC wants buffered RAM, while these FX types do not. I dont think a simple BIOS hack can circumvent that. Reply
Kiijibari - Saturday, December 02, 2006 - link*gasp*
Du you really think AMD engineers, tests, validate, etc. a CPU for a niche market ??
There are maybe only a few thousand 4x4 CPUs, that are sold worldwide per month ... it would be economical ridiculous.
But if you dont know anything about business, maybe that will convince you:
lollichop - Sunday, February 26, 2017 - linkAll idiots talking about old CPUs here :D Fast forward 11 years, Ryzen will be out in a week's time. Reply


text:
Get an overview of this hotelElegant, historic inn on Charleston's City Market
Popular property highlights
Antiques District
Built in 1844, this beautifully restored inn is situated on Charleston's open-air City Market; the King Street Antiques District is only a block away and Fort Sumter tours are within a half-mile.
Peninsula Grill
Ranked among the top hotels in North America, Planters Inn houses the award-winning Peninsula Grill restaurant and an elegantly appointed parlor. Wireless Internet access is complimentary throughout.
Hand-carved beds
Planters Inn guestrooms feature hand-carved, 4-poster mahogany beds with custom-made mattresses, and high-quality reproductions of period furnishings. Luxurious bathrooms have Italian marble counters.Information missing or incorrect? Tell us!Opens in a new window
Planters Inn
Hotel Amenities
Hotel Amenities
Sharing a common wall with the first building of the City Market, one of the oldest public markets in America, the Planters Inn is situated in the heart of Charleston's historic district. The King Street Antiques District is only 1 block away.
The Peninsula Grill, with walls of rich velvet and antique cypress woodwork, serves breakfast and dinner in a sophisticated, club-like atmosphere. Classic cocktails are served each evening in the elegant bar.
Complimentary orange spice tea and fresh apples are served daily in the hotel's cozy parlor, and complimentary coffee service is available each morning and evening. A lush garden courtyard with reflecting pool offers a calm space for meditation, and a 24-hour business center provides laptop computers and a variety of office supplies.
Wireless Internet access is complimentary throughout this non-smoking property.
- 24-hour front desk
- Valet parking (surcharge)
- Year Built 1844
- Bar/lounge
- Breakfast available (surcharge)
- Business center
- Concierge services
- Coffee/tea in common areas
- Free newspapers in lobby
- Conference space
- Dry cleaning/laundry service
- Elevator/lift
- Fireplace in lobby
- Tours/ticket assistance
- Meeting rooms 2
- Number of floors - 4
- Total number of rooms - 64
- Terrace
- Porter/bellhop
- Luggage storage
- Restaurant
- Safe-deposit box at front desk
- Smoke-free property
- Use of nearby fitness center (discount)
- Wedding services
- Free WiFi
- Garden
Available in all rooms: Free WiFi
Available in some public areas: Free WiFi
Valet parking (surcharge)
Room Amenities
- Air conditioning
- Phone
- Bathrobes
- Private bathroom
- Free toiletries
- Television
- Individually decorated
- In-room childcare (surcharge)
- In-room climate control (air conditioning)
- Free weekday newspaper
- Designer toiletries
- Desk
- Hair dryer
- Daily housekeeping
- Hypo-allergenic bedding available
- In-room safe
- Iron/ironing board
- In-room massage available
- Cable TV service
- Free WiFi
- Slippers
- Turndown service
- Room service (limited hours)
- Connecting/adjoining rooms available
Where to Eat
Peninsula Grill - Haute cuisine. Sophisticated, club-like atmosphere—but not formal. Steaks and chops, fish and oysters, champagne and lobster. Extensive wine list. Bar serving classic cocktails. Indoor and garden-courtyard seating. Open for breakfast and dinner.
Room service - Available for breakfast and dinner.
Nearby Things to Do
The hotel offers discount passes to nearby Eco Fitness, a modern fitness facility two blocks away. Blue Turtle Yoga offers multiple yoga classes at Eco Fitness daily.
The 18-hole, William Byrd designed Patriots Point Links golf course is surrounded by the waters of Charleston Harbor, on a secluded peninsula 5 miles away.
The recreational activities listed below are available on site or nearby; fees may apply.
- Golfing nearby
- Sailing nearby
- Bicycle rentals nearby
If you have requests for specific accessibility needs, please note them at check-out when you book your room.
- Accessible bathroom
- In-room accessibility
Hotel Policies
Check-in time ends at 11 PM
Check-in time starts at 3 PM
Check-out time is noon
Payment types
Children and extra beds
- Children are welcome.
- Rollaway/extra beds are not available.
- Cribs (infant beds) are not available.
- Pets not allowed
You need to know
Extra-person charges may apply and vary depending on property policy.
Optional extras
- Fee for full breakfast: USD 16 per person (approximately)
- Valet parking fee: USD 30 per day (in/out privileges)
Hotel Name
- Planters Charleston
- Planters Inn
- Planters Inn Charleston
- Planters Hotel Charleston
We should mention
The property has connecting/adjoining rooms, which are subject to availability and can be requested by contacting the property using the number on the booking confirmation.
Awards & Affiliations
- The property is a member of Relais & Chateaux.


text:
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Also, as you browse through the site, each page may have specific metadata of relevance which will be offered to you when you click on the "Metadata" link at the top right of that page. So, if you are on a page, be sure to check the link there also.
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