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ASUS P8Z77-V Premium Review: A Bentley Among Motherboardsby Ian Cutress on 8/13/2012 10:30 AM EST
- Posted in
- Motherboards
- Asus
43 Comments
Back to Article
Phynaz - Monday, August 13, 2012 - linkAnd so are the handful of people that would spend $450 on a motherboard. Reply
Samus - Tuesday, August 14, 2012 - linkI spent $300 on my Asus P6T (socket 1366) in December 08. I still use it today, only upgrading it with a USB 3.0 PCIe card and from a GTX285 to a GTX570, keeping it 'current'.
The i7-950 and 12GB of triple-channel DDR3 keep it competitive with the upper 90% of computers made today, so I feel it was a completely worthy investment.
Who else can honestly say they've had a computer for four years and have upgraded virtually nothing aside from the video card and still have performance competitive with the fastest computers sold today? Reply
Visual - Tuesday, August 14, 2012 - linkUm, pretty much everyone that bought any kind of quad core?
Mobo has always had almost zero effect on performance to begin with, CPUs have been faster than most people need them be in the last decade or so, GPU is the only thing that matters.
This mobo is not expencive because it has any pluses in performance, but because of the extra frills and features it has... which are only worth it if you actually use them. I don't think I will need most of them currently, and can add them on to any computer if I decide to use them later on. So this mobo is not worth it for me. Reply
pandemonium - Thursday, August 16, 2012 - linkThis is pretty silly, since A LOT rides on which CPU you're using and how overclocked it is. GPUs are DEFINITELY NOT the only thing that matters and this has been proven through hundreds of reviews and comparisons all over the net. Reply
BytesMage - Tuesday, September 11, 2012 - linkNever crazy. My last build was 4 years ago. 790i SLI Ultra. I've kept him alive with GPU upgrades from 9800Gx2 in 2008 to GTX 580 3gb x2 in 2011, Memory upgrades from 4gb to 8gb. This extends life yes, but you get to the point of no return and then have to build again. I am at that place now. Mobo is very important. It is the ground floor on which everything else must stand. I have had a bad Mobo in past and can tell you that it does not matter what GPU you have if your mobo is poo. I want a feature rich, stable, OC able board with plenty of room for expansion. Price is what you pay for this. Well worth it. Why is it that no one moans (much) at $600.00 GPu but they do at $450.00 MB???? It is what it is. Where I see bad pricing is SSDs $500-600 big ones for a 512gb.... Reply
Menetlaus - Monday, August 13, 2012 - linkI don't understand the inclusion of the 32GB mSATA SSD with this motherboard, even more so at the $450 price point.
As the article says, anyone paying that kind of cash can easily afford a bigger and faster SSD and the 32GB is barely enough for a Win 7 install. The only way I really see it being beneficial is if it came pre-configured to work as cache (using intel rapid storage tech or similar) but there would be no way for them to know which drive to speed up as there is no point in caching a fast SSD if one was installed as the OS drive.
I really like that is has a mSATA port to allow a user to install a small form SSD, but including a 32GB drive these days is simply too small for a standalone drive and the configuration to get intel RST or similar working is not for the novice user (or so I've heard). Reply
cjs150 - Monday, August 13, 2012 - linkI agree the mSATA seems a frivolous extra although I would give two reasons; 1. Not big enough, 128Gb mSATA would be nice though 2. only SATA 3G, the latest mSATA cards are SATA 6G but sadly not got a board to support this yet.
If this is a true premium board mSATA should be SATA 6G then it would be truely quick Reply
ASUSTechMKT - Tuesday, August 14, 2012 - linkthe current mSATA spec only supports 3G as it is required to be linked to the 3G PCH port per Intel specification. Additionally see the feedback above regarding the 32GB mSATA module. Lastly a larger capacity mSATA would have considerably increased the cost which was already high especially considering all the logic some covered and some not covered in the review.
Also would not in our analysis overall usage of mSATA is very low for users in the desktop space due to higher cost compared to standard 2.5inch SSDs. This is also why we integrated the solution to ensure a fully usable out of box solution for SSD caching. Reply
AnnihilatorX - Monday, August 13, 2012 - linkThe 32GB SSD may be aimed at the Intel Smart Response SSD Caching Technology for a larger mechanical HDD.
One may also use it for a Linux partition I guess?
If I am to buy this, I may sell the mSATA. I wonder how much that will fetch. Reply
Azethoth - Monday, August 13, 2012 - linkYeah, I added a REVODRIVE 3 X2 (240GB SSD) to my Z77 build. It cost about as much as this motherboard but it doesn't need a puny 32GB cache to slow it down. My media is already on a NAS so 240GB is all I need for OS, software development and games.
However next year I will definitely buy the premium LGA 2011 version, hopefully it comes with a 64GB SSD so I can add a backup drive under it. Reply
ptrinh1979 - Tuesday, August 14, 2012 - linkI was confused as well, but in my case, I can use this to offload the pagefile without sacrificing a drive bay in my chassis. Reply
BytesMage - Tuesday, September 11, 2012 - linkPage file is good for this. Planning on raiding 2 SSDs in raid 0 on Intel then SSD cache ll on the marvel with 2 60gb SSDs to 3tb HDD. I was wondering what to do with the 32gb mSata. Reply
ASUSTechMKT - Tuesday, August 14, 2012 - linkThe 32GB mSATA was integrated to allow for quick access to utilizing Intel SSD Caching functionality. While many users are adopting high performance SSDs the cost of higher capacities is till high and in addition limited. Mechanical drives still considerably outpace and outsell SSDs in integration in all price points of desktops. Having this 32GB drive integrated easily allows for you to "SSD Cache a 2, 3 or 4TB drive" this allows you to have a much smoother and quicker response experience from the mechanical volume.
While not noted the setup has also been streamlined in our utility to allow for a quick one click level of initialization for Intel SSD Caching or ASUS SSD Caching from the Marvell controller. Reply
Rick83 - Monday, August 13, 2012 - linkAt this price point, that is fairly ridiculous.
So yes, there is "Thunderbolt", but a Firewire 800 Controller would probably be more useful, as there are way more Firewire devices in the wild than Thunderbolt.
Not sure how much the 82579V really can be called "server grade" either.
The 82579V on the Gene-Z shouldn't be all that different, having the same designation, but you have to manually hack the .inf to get the driver to install on Windows server. Not sure what makes this one server grade, seeing as the broken .inf comes directly from Intel.
Checking the other NIC, that one is more likely to be server grade, it costs almost twice as much. Not sure who made that mix-up. Reply
IanCutress - Monday, August 13, 2012 - linkThis was my error. The 82583 is not server grade, but as a helpful reader pointed out via email, the 82571, 82572, 82574, 82576, 82580 and I350 are. Super helpful naming scheme to tell them apart... :)
Ian Reply
Googer - Monday, August 13, 2012 - linkThunderbolt is capable if mimicking firewire and just about every other IO technology in existence. So there is no real need for the added PCB Real Estate or monetary expense of a 1394 chip when 1394b is something that never really caught on (SAD). Reply
bigboxes - Tuesday, August 14, 2012 - linkGive up on the firewire. It's got USB 3.0. & USB 2.0. Anything you might need beyond that will either be Thunderbolt or some future USB 4.0. I've never needed Firewire. I've wasted money on a Firewire card, but that's not the same thing as needing it, now is it? Reply
Rick83 - Tuesday, August 14, 2012 - linkThere's a lot of Firewire Video stuff (I'm following the IEEE1394-Linux mailing list, and there is still development and occasional use in a variety of contexts) Also I have a FireWire CF-reader. Not to mention that it's still much cheaper than TB, and in the shape of FW-800 still bloody fast, thanks to physical DMA.
Also, at 450 euro, there's just no reason not to mark that check-box. Thunderbird is NOT a drop-in replacement. It's not like there's no space left on the back plane.
I actually had a look at the P8C WS yesterday evening, and it seems that that board is what this board should be, at half the price.
Two server grade NICs, FireWire, DVI out, support for ECC MEM and Xeons.
No WiFi, Thunderbolt, SSD or PLX though, but then those are probably less useful to (me and) most people, than the aforementioned.
Oh and it has 4x SATA less. But then 10x SATA is what my much cheaper GigaByte P55-UD5 has, and had years ago (Yes, they're all in use - Yes I'm looking at the WS because I've been having issues (kernel panics, NICs misbehaving) with it lately and server NICs and ECC probably are a good idea after all) Reply
BoloMKXXVIII - Monday, August 13, 2012 - linkI have to agree with others who are a bit confused why a 32 GB SSD was included. As for the rest of the board, I will keep an eye out for when this board starts dropping in price. It is bound to happen. As long as it doesn't take too long it could fit well into my near future plans. Reply
Kristian Vättö - Monday, August 13, 2012 - linkAny idea how the Marvell 9230 SATA 6Gbps controller performs? Marvell's previous controllers haven't been too great, so I'm curious to know if the 9230 is any better. Reply
ASUSTechMKT - Tuesday, August 14, 2012 - linkIt offers considerably better performance first generation 9128 and 9120 and 9130 were not bad controller just limited in peak throughput but keep in mind the controller was put to market before Intel even had SATA6G PCH. Also keep in mind performance for real world usage ( boot time, application launch performance, copy performance is pretty similar between then it is only in benchmarks you will see a measurable difference. That being noted the x2 interconnect offers twice the throughput for considerably improved performance vs the x1 interconnect 9128 type solutions. This allows newer SATA6G drives to generally perform on about the same level as the Intel PCH ( peak performance being at / near or above 500MBs on fast controllers ). Additionally it has some specific advantages not noted in the review such as stacked SSD caching. This allows up to 3 SSDs to be stacked on a mechanical drive to continue to enhance its performance.
Hope this clarifies it for you. Reply
infoilrator - Monday, August 13, 2012 - linkOn any top price product certain features are necessary, useful or not, on a "has" basis.
Minor omissions (in the would be nice category) would be a card reader in the front USB3.0 Device, and a PCIe expansion card with 2 firewire and 2 USB2 or USB3 plugs.
After all, too much is not enough, $450 should not require further shopping for minor add ins.
The price, if you have full use for the "package" seems acceptable, not that I'll ever have it. Reply
TimoKyyro - Monday, August 13, 2012 - linkI would have liked to see GPU rendering benchmarks with SmallLuxGPU or Blender. This board would be perfect for animation rendering with 2 x PCIe 3.0 x16 for dual GTX 690 or 4 x PCIe 3.0 x8 for quad GTX 680.
The price doesn't matter if I get faster GPU rendering and better support for new technologies like PCIe 3.0 and Thunderbolt. Reply
IanCutress - Monday, August 13, 2012 - linkUnfortunately I do not have access to those GPUs.
Ian Reply
rahvin - Monday, August 13, 2012 - linkAre the eSATA ports port multiplier capable? Reply
mayankleoboy1 - Monday, August 13, 2012 - linkit would be great to see a PCIE3.0 SSD for tests and if it can take advantage of the extra bandwidth. Reply
DigitalFreak - Monday, August 13, 2012 - linkThere is no "extra bandwidth". You're still limited to the x16 connection to the CPU. Reply
jwcalla - Monday, August 13, 2012 - link$450???
If you want to set yourself apart, how about supporting something useful like ECC RAM and 10 GbE?
Until you can do ethernet over Thunderbolt, I don't really see the point of TB on a motherboard like this.
And 10+ SATA ports... that would only be used in a file server context. But that requires ECC RAM. So it doesn't add up.
JMO. Reply
jwcalla - Monday, August 13, 2012 - link* Ahh yes I forgot that desktop Intel chipsets don't support ECC RAM so they can charge more for their server-based motherboards and processors.
Even Cortex A-15 supports ECC. *sigh*
This space needs some serious competition. It's just the same boring features rehashed and multiplied. Reply
Kevin G - Monday, August 13, 2012 - linkThere are a few TB -> Ethernet solutions out there, including an adapter from Apple. Though with two NIC's on the board, I'm not really use-case scenario for TB on this particular motherboard. I can only fathom fast external storage and at that point the user would be better off with a solid SAS card with external connectivity.
As for ECC, Intel does indeed limit their desktop processors. A handful of motherboards will support ECC if a socket 1155 Xeon is utilized. Though if ECC is critical, AMD's FX line supports ECC and up to the motherboard manufacturers to support it. Reply
damianrobertjones - Monday, August 13, 2012 - linkI'd say that in the next five years I'll buy... 0 Thunderbolt peripherals. Heck I've only just been bothered to buy my first USB3 thumb drive. Others, however, will jump all over it to be special or actually have a 'genuine' use. Reply
philosofool - Monday, August 13, 2012 - linkStopped reading at "$450," but it was interesting to learn that a person could spend that much on a PC motherboard. Reply
stjoker69 - Monday, August 13, 2012 - linkSo to nit pit, but I the noun Asus is singular. "ASUS have gone for the additional extras" should be ASUS has gone for the additional extras. Reply
Visual - Tuesday, August 14, 2012 - linkRe-read your first sentence, and tell us if it makes any sense. Then consider again if you should be one to give people grammar lessons.
"ASUS" is a corporation name, corporations are groups of people, that means "ASUS" is a collective noun, so plural verbs can be used with it just fine. Reply
IanCutress - Tuesday, August 14, 2012 - linkThis is a US vs. UK thing. Here in the UK, collective nouns are plural.
Ian Reply
Powerlurker - Tuesday, August 14, 2012 - linkIn the UK and most of the Commonwealth, "ASUS have" would be the correct usage. Reply
Googer - Monday, August 13, 2012 - linkI am disappointed in the lack of PS/2 support which does have it's advantages over USB. Especially for us Vintage Keyboard Lovers. Reply
Googer - Monday, August 13, 2012 - linkThere is room on the back of that I/O panel for PS/2. I've used USB keyboard adapters and its not the same as native PS/2 support. If having PS/2 on a motherboard bothers you, then don't use it and it will likely disable it's self in P.O.S.T. Reply
dawp - Tuesday, August 14, 2012 - linkfor $450 I would expect that it would at least match my sabertooth x58 @ 5 years.
I like that it does have dual band wifi/bluetooth but I don't think I will ever spend that kind of cash on a board Reply
cjb110 - Tuesday, August 14, 2012 - linkOne comment about the temperature measurements, as it keeps being mentioned about the varying ambient conditions. Could you not change to a delta reading? So as to remove ambient from the issue? Obviously extreme variations in ambient should still be mentioned.
Bit-Tech.net do this on their reviews and it seems to make a lot of sense. Reply
Deptacon - Tuesday, August 14, 2012 - linkDoes the eSata port support Port Multiplier??? This should always be addressed when dealing with an eSata port. Reply
Arcanedeath - Tuesday, August 14, 2012 - linkthe Asmedia controler used for the Esata ports does support Port Multipliers and FIS based switching which is required to work with most of the SI based backplanes. Reply
MacGyverSG1 - Sunday, August 19, 2012 - linkI am very interested in both the Premium and Maximus V Extreme for my next build. I just can't decide which would be the better choice. The extreme overclocking features of the V are useless to me, but I do like that the mSATA is optional.
Hopefully a review of the Maximus V Extreme is in the works and it will be compared to the Premium.
The best review for the Premium I've read so far. Reply


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AMD's Phenom II X4 965 Black Editionby Anand Lal Shimpi on 8/13/2009 12:00 AM EST
- Posted in
- CPUs
58 Comments
Back to Article
andrenb91 - Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - linkamd's only hope to beat the i7s is the istambul core, if it brings istambul to the desktop market, I guess this future cpu can beat some high-end i7 processors, and after some revisions on the deneb core, amd will place it to ''fight'' the i5s leaving the athlon x4 playing against the i3s, but most denebs must be at 95W to be efficient against i5. of course this strategy depends if amd is economically capaple of putting a 300mm squared die in the desktop market...deneb is already too large to compete against the i7!
Denithor - Friday, August 14, 2009 - linkYou measured performance in video encoding and then power consumption under the same test. Why not take the obvious next step to calculate performance/watt and post those results?
And I was quite disappointed to see that you posted only about half of each CPU list on each of those charts - a few chips overlap but many do not so we cannot even do the calculation for ourselves except in less than half the cases. Reply
- Monday, August 17, 2009 - link
Two things : Intel's SSE extentions are used by everyone, and should be the difference in some of these tests.
The other disturbing thing is the FarCry benchmark, the writer:
FarCry 2 is another example of a title well optimized for Intel's architectures and thus we see that the 965BE can't even win against its Q9550 competition. Thankfully for AMD, I do not believe FarCry 2 is representative of the majority of titles on the market.
I believe this is an example of how SSE extentions deliver; but looking at the game benchmark data closer, we see that all cpu's are comparatively the same even the i7's vs Intel Core ll. Most, if not all vendors optimize in Intels favor
- Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - linkNote the extention differences between the two designs-
Phenom ll X4 945
Processor core Deneb
Core stepping C2
Manufacturing process 0.045 micron SOI
758 million transistors
Die size 243 mm2
Data width 64 bit
Number of cores 4
Floating Point Unit Integrated
Level 1 cache size ? 4 x 64 KB 2-way associative instruction caches
4 x 64 KB 2-way associative data caches
Level 2 cache size ? 4 x 512 KB 16-way associative caches
Level 3 cache size 6 MB shared 48-way associative cache
Virtual memory (TB) 256
Features MMX
SSE4a ?
Advanced Bit Manipulation ?
AMD64 technology ?
AMD-V (virtualization) technology
Enhanced Virus Protection ?
Low power features Cool'n'Quiet 3.0
CoolCore Technology ?
Dual Dynamic Power Management ?
Core C1 and C1E states
Package S0, S1, S3, S4 and S5 states
On-chip peripherals Integrated 144-bit DDR2 Memory Controller
HyperTransport 3 technology
Type CPU / Microprocessor
Family Intel Core i7
Model number ? I7-920
CPU part number AT80601000741AA (Q1CM, Q1H7, SLBCH, SLBEJ)
Box part numbers BX80601920 (SLBCH, SLBEJ)
Frequency (MHz) ? 2667
Bus speed (MHz) ? 2400 MHz QPI
Package 1366-land Flip-Chip Land Grid Array (FC-LGA8)
Socket Socket 1366 (LGA1366)
Introduction date Nov 17, 2008
Price at introduction $284
Architecture / Microarchitecture
Processor core Bloomfield
Core steppings C0 (SLBCH)
Manufacturing process 0.045 micron Hi-k metal gate technology
731 million transistors
Die size 263 mm2
Data width 64 bit
Number of cores 4
Floating Point Unit Integrated
Level 1 cache size ? 4 x 32 KB instruction caches
4 x 32 KB data caches
Level 2 cache size ? 4 x 256 KB
Level 3 cache size Inclusive shared 8 MB cache
Features MMX instruction set
Supplemental SSE3
EM64T technology ?
Hyper-Threading technology
Turbo Boost technology ?
Virtualization technology
Execute Disable bit ?
Low power features Thread C1, C3 and C6 states
Core C1, C3 and C6 states
Package C3 and C6 states
SpeedStep technology ?
On-chip peripherals Integrated triple-channel DDR3 SDRAM Memory controller
Quick Path Interconnect
- Tuesday, August 18, 2009 - link
Type CPU / Microprocessor
Family Intel Core 2 Quad
Model number ? Q9650
CPU part number AT80569PJ080N (QHGF, SLB8W)
Box part numbers BX80569Q9650 (SLB8W)
Frequency (MHz) ? 3000
Bus speed (MHz) ? 1333
Clock multiplier ? 9
Package 775-land Flip-Chip Land Grid Array (FC-LGA8)
1.48" x 1.48" (3.75 cm x 3.75 cm)
Socket Socket 775 (LGA775)
Introduction date Aug 10, 2008
Price at introduction $530
Architecture / Microarchitecture
Processor core Yorkfield
Core stepping E0 (QHGF, SLB8W)
Manufacturing process 0.045 micron
Data width 64 bit
Number of cores 4
Floating Point Unit Integrated
Level 1 cache size ? 4 x 32 KB instruction caches
4 x 32 KB data caches
Level 2 cache size ? 2 x 6 MB 12-way set associative caches (each L2 cache is shared between 2 cores)
Features MMX instruction set
Supplemental SSE3
EM64T technology ?
Virtualization Technology
Execute Disable Bit technology ?
Trusted Execution technology
Low power features Enhanced SpeedStep technology ?
Stop Grant state ?
Halt state
Extended Halt state
Extended Stop Grant State
Sleep state ?
Deep Sleep state ?
Deeper Sleep state ?
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Core_2/Intel-Core%20...">http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Core_2/In...BX80569Q... Reply
- Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkIntel's biggest (only?) advantage is hyperthreading; realize Windows 7 had to be optimized (how much more code?)for hyperthreading..how will Intel's i7's react in an openCL, CPUGPU environment (WARP) compared to Phenoms II's and an ATI graphics card, is it cost efficient(less code) and more efficient (faster) to go with CPUGPU over hyper..Will multicores do away with hyperthreading? These current comparisons on vista or XP do not necessary reflect comparisons on Windows 7 or DirectX 11. staytuned Reply
- Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkI would also love my excel spreadsheets to have the advantage of CPUGPU...Photoshop too Reply
- Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkoh yeah, Intels game plan to fight AMD's CPUGPU concept-
a)license the SLI technology from Nvidia for Nehelam
b)get Microsoft to optimise Windows 7 for hyperthreading (sidebar-Intel pushes Windows 7 for corporate upgrades- can you say payoff))
innovative genius
but in reality they will probably make sure this great technological concept dies, thereby assuring comp's remain in the dark ages for another 10 years
JumpingJack - Sunday, September 21, 2014 - linkYou really had zero clue what you were talking about .... it is funny to come back in time and re-read all this AMD fanboy nonsense. Very entertaining, thank you for the horrendously great laugh. Reply
ash9 - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - link"Now once you start throwing in background tasks and look at future titles being more threaded then the picture becomes a little more muddy"
I dont understand where the writer is going with these conclusions. As CPUGPU or OpenCL begins to take hold, the old comparative model of simply looking at raw speed becomes obsolete, now, overall power can be reduced while concurrent events run parallel in multicores and GPU, thats is where AMD is heading. These comparisons with Vista may not be as eye opening as compared on Windows 7 or DirectX 11, this is where AMD planed to rock and roll from the start. Reply
GourdFreeMan - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkYou are looking too far forward into the future for a product that is going to be used by consumers for the next 2-3 years. Yes, there is a general move among all vendors (AMD, nVIDIA and Intel) towards moving largely parallel computation onto GPUs, however you must keep in mind CUDA has been around for 2.5 years and Brook even longer than that, yet GPGPU has only found commercial consumer application in media encoding and Adobe Photoshop. To expect a sudden shift when DX11 is released as a commercial product as part of Windows 7 later this year is wishful thinking at best. Programmers require time to learn new skills, adopt new methodologies and experiment to determine what works more efficiently and what doesn't. That time will be measured in years, not months.
If we restrict ourselves to the domain of PC gaming, then Anand's comments are accurate, if a little dated. Programmers have finally adopted multithreaded (CPU) development with a vengeance. Most new games are multithreaded, regardless of whether they are a console port or the rare instance of the dying breed of PC exclusives. The first dual core consumer CPUs were released more than 4 years ago. That should give you some idea of how agile PC games development actually is. We still don't have many titles with 64-bit executables despite how long ago 64-bit CPUs and operating systems were released.
Finally, there remain open questions of where tasks belong and what to do with unused processing capability on the CPU and GPU. You can put physics on the GPU, but what about AI? Game logic? Branchy scripts written by content creators as opposed to programmers? You can use your unused GPU cycles to do more graphically or at a higher frame rate, but can't you also find more tasks for your CPU that will contribute to gameplay? World simulation and more complicated AI immediately spring to mind. Reply
ravaneli - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkPrice: in retail price comparison the 9550 is a little cheaper. Talking about deals, my microcenter had about a hundred of them in stock at $169 each.
Performance, even at stock 2.83 ghz the 9550 will take on the 965. You can take a look at toms hardware for another set of results. They looked quite humiliating. The 9550 will however overclock to 4ghz even with stick cooler due to really low cpu voltage.
All AMD did with this chip is change the multiplier for you. And charge you for that. Thank's, but I can do this myself in 2 mins.
Not to say that 9550 is all that great, but I find the superiority fight with the 965 a quite tough one at least. How did u write it off so quickly and went quickly to comparing to i7. A lot of water will pass under the bridge before we see anything from AMD that competes with i7. Keep you comments about price of platform. It's not like you pay more money for the same product. You pay more for memory BUT YOU DO HAVE FASTER MEMORY, DONT YOU?? And read around, reliable OC motherboards under 200 are not rare any more. Reply
OblivionLord - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkI dont understand why you people are comparing newer intel chips such as the i5 and i7 to the 955 and 965 when the AMD chips arent even in the same league as the i7/i5. Infact the 955 and 965 has worse power efficiency than Yorksfield chips. To be blunt, Anandtech said that in a 64bit Windows environment the 965 couldn't pass 4ghz. At stock speed the 3.4ghz processor has a stock voltage of 1.4v. That's almost on par with Kentsfield quad power requirement. My 4.0ghz Q9550 oc'ed only needs 1.3625v and that's oc'ed compared to the 965's 1.4v at stock 3.4ghz which is insane. When my chip is at 3.8ghz I set the vcore to 1.3265. That's still 400mhz more than the 965 at stock which needs 1.4v.
There is nothing that can tell me that Phenom 2 is anywhere comparable with anything past Yorksfield when it simply isn't.
IKeelU - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkKeep in mind that price is what we use to compare one processor to another. I don't think anyone is disputing that the I7 is a more technologically "advanced" microprocessor, but my wallet doesn't really care about that, and neither do OEMs I think. Ultimately, the TDP is something you should take into account when determining the overall cost of ownership. This is something that is difficult to evaluate objectively because everyone has different usage patterns, and the cost of energy varies from place to place. So we must evaluate based on a more spatially-constant cost, which is the purchase price. Reply
Nfarce - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkExactly. It is not Intel's fault that AMD has been asleep at the switch for several years now and reduced to rehashes of previous architectures. I want to see AMD keep Intel on its toes, but nothing from them currently makes me want to give up staying with Intel. And the way the future road map looks from Intel, I don't see that changing any time soon. Reply
arbiter378 - Friday, November 06, 2009 - linkYour wrong, it is intel's fault. http://ec.europa.eu/competition/sectors/ICT/intel....">http://ec.europa.eu/competition/sectors/ICT/intel.... Reply
Nfarce - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkThose chips are certainly much more popular than the E8200, which is discontinued now most likely due to low sales. Besides, I think a 3.16GHz or 3.33GHz Wolfdale is more in line with the rest of the upper spectrum chips than one running at 2.66GHz.
What would really be cool is a mass overclock comparison (on air) for the top 10 chips listed here. That would more in line reflect real world users here as well. Let's go with a head to head AMD vs. Intel overclock comparison! Reply
haplo602 - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkso we have a new top end AMD cpu. the benchmarks are about what I expected them to be.
AMD is nearing the limit of current Phenom II technology. They should introduce something new and better soon after i5 hits the streets or they are loosing on almost all fronts to Intel. Reply
brybir - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkI did notice on newegg that AMD is releasing some of its Phenom II's with lower TDP.
They have a Phenom II 945 that was rated at 125WTDP now with the same processor just rated at 95W TDP.
I figure they will goose the clock speed a bit more if they can and continue to work on getting their power consumption lowered on the rest of their line so by the time their new processors come out the Phenom II's can pull up low power budget duty. Reply
Taft12 - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkI was going to mention this new part from AMD as well (945 95W edition). Anand you would do well to draw attention to it as well where you talk about AMD's current product lineup. This is a more interesting and notable introduction to me than this 140W behemoth.
I was surprised to see the 965 only consumes 3W more at load than the 955BE however. Yes it draws the highest power on the chart, but only just barely. Reply
werfu - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkWhat AMD needs is a way to improve performance per clock, that's it, either K11 or something new. There's no way they'll be able to scale much past the 4Ghz point. Imagine the boost they would get, if they could provide 10% more clock efficiency, at the clock they are currently that would be a huge boost. They also need to improve the IMC. Going for 4 memory stick with AMD for now is a no go if you want to have high ram speed. Memory bandwidth is definitely a huge Intel advantage. And something like Hyperthread could be nice too. Reply
TheHolyLancer - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkuncore? isnt this HTT?
JumpingJack - Sunday, September 21, 2014 - linkNo, uncore is not HTT.... Reply
medi01 - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - link"The problem with the $245 price point that AMD's flagship sells at is one of positioning. It is dangerously close to the $284 price of a Core i7 920, which is generally a faster chip."
Sorry, but shouldn't you also include motherboard price into calculation? Reply
C'DaleRider - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkWell, really depends upon where you buy your parts from, doesn't it?
Given that I have a MicroCenter and Fry's handy, the price for Intel's Core i7 cpu is $200. Combine that with an inexpensive X58 motherboard, like the MSI X58M, that has gotten quite good reviews for what it is, retails for $170.
That gives a $370 price for mb and cpu to move to i7....cost of DDR3 memory is a wash due to both platforms requiring it.
Of course, for those that depend upon Newegg's pricing for cpus, I feel for you....getting ripped off and all. Horrible how the 'Egg gouges on cpu prices these days. Reply
mohindar - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkHow you can fit this processor onto socket LGA775, as mentioned in the final page... Reply
mohindar - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkSorry, wrong comment. Reply
Ben90 - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkthe SYS Mark 2007 Chart has the i7 920 @ 2.8 ghz... dont know if its on purpose or a typo Reply
MODEL3 - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkWell if it's true that Core i5 750 is going to launch at 6th of September at 196$,
then the only option for AMD is to drop the price around what you suggested! (199$)
Traditionally AMD official pricing translates around 5% lower (in actual street price) than Intel equivalent price
(although in the recent years Intel had various questionable tactics like direct rebates to Retailers & to System Builders without a specific sales target - in the Europe region)
I just hope that AMD is clever to understand, that in no way has to release a higher clocked model (975 3,6GHz, & 985 3,8GHz)
before Intel release in Q1 2010 & in Q3 2010 the higher clocked models of i5 7XX (i5 760 2,8GHz & i5 770 2,93GHz) (if this is indeed the Intel future roadmap at 196$)
Already some sites, that are with Intel side can easily fix the testing method, in order the Core i5 750 to appear more powerful than even a future 975 3,6GHz!
The performance difference between Phenom II architecture & Nehalem architecture can have wide variation depending on the testing method!
So if Intel wants, it can influence some sites to use specific methods to declare a Core i5 750 better than even a future 975 3,6GHz!
What good will do to AMD to release a 975 at a 245$ in Q4 2009?
Of cource AMD can price it at at 219$ (20$ difference with 965) but the whole situation is becoming depressing (they are fighting for +20$ for only a quarter until Q1 2010)
Well, i guess they must make everything, in order to survive!
GeorgeH - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - link"AMD ought to get rid of the Xn suffix and just use simple model numbers at this point."
I understand what you're saying, but I think it's the most straightforward processor naming scheme in a long time. You get the architecture, cores, relative speed, and locked/unlocked instantly. Unless AMD is going to stop selling 2 and 3 core chips and never offer more than 4 cores in the consumer space, I say keep the "Xn".
Intel could really learn from AMD here; from your writeup on ix branding, I fully expect to be needing a decoder ring to figure out what a particular i3/i5/i7 really is. Reply
Drazick - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkIt seems Intel advantage is more about optimization than much better processor, is this assumption true?
Why isn't AMD put efforts into that?
Thanks. Reply
Drazick - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkIt should be easy to create some test scenarios and measure time.
Many High End users use those kind of software. Reply
GourdFreeMan - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkThe problem with benchmarking such packages is that depending on their target application they will not stress systems in a uniform way. Large matrix computation will likely be bound by memory bandwidth, while numeric computation at machine precision will hinge on FPU/SSE performance, and symbolic calculations will largely be bound by integer and branching performance. There isn't one uniform application that is representative of the needs of all scientists and engineers. Reply
XtAzY - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkI got my i7 920 for $200 at MicroCenter, much cheaper than $280 online deals! This AMD definately does not worth $245!! Reply
Griswold - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkAnd how much did you pay for the mobo and triple channel kit, dumbass? Reply
Exar3342 - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkLOL, your the dumbass. :)
6GB triple Channel - (Newegg) $85.00
8GB dual channel (newegg) $95.00
So you are talking a difference or $40-60, which if you can get the i7 at Microcenter (I was there last week and they had a ton) erases any price differences. Reply
Griswold - Saturday, August 15, 2009 - linkOh, lets look at the other article anand just put up, dumbass. Your shit doesnt quite add up... Reply
rhog - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkSince when can you get a "good" x58 for lest than 200?
I assume the 200 Bucks is a Mail in rebate price as well. I own 2 i7 920 great processor but hardly any faster at 3.6ghz than a 3.8ghz AMD 955 (at most 20%) which is in line with the "real" 100-125 Buck difference in cost. You can get a really nice Video card upgrade for that money. Don't forget the i7 920 never runs at 2.6ghz but always overclocks itself making it hard to do a good clock for clock comparison. The AMD 965 is better than Core2 and I doubt that the Core i5 will be faster than a Core i7 so they should compete well. Oh, and the Core i5 will overclock itself as well I here as much a 3 mults Reply
Roland00 - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkThe 200 dollar price isn't a mail in rebate, Micro Center a small computer store chain with about 30 stores market itself as a computer builder destination. They lose about 80 dollars on the processor to get you into the store and hoping to sell you enough other stuff (or assembly or warranties) to make up for their loss leader. Reply
steelicon - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkROTFLMAOBBQ! Agreed! They get you in more ways than one, either it's the Processor itself, the Chipset, the DDR3 or all of them combined. Good thing we have another choice of platform! Reply
steelicon - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkWill this run on an old AsuS Crosshair NV590A-SLI motherboard? I surely do hope so... Reply
grimpr - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkA really fast CPU, some minor tweaks to the K10 architecture and AMD stays "current", but the TDP's are ridiculous, 140W!!, for non existing gods sake! at 95W TDP and at the same price they would be excellent purchases to Intels Lynnfields. Clearly they are positioned at gamers,a crowd long lost to AMD. For uses other than happy jerking at intel compiler optimized benchmarks and moronic SuperPi's with analyzing miniscule FPS differences at games, the AMD Phenom II 905E at 65W TDP is an excellent buy. Something about the 45nm SOI manufacturing of this chips from AMD makes us wonder... Reply
FireSnake - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkYou really need to grow up with this 140W and take a very close look at the power consumption table ;) Reply
JimmiG - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkIt's not like the 140W TDP happened by accident or took AMD by surprise. 120 - 140W has been the target TDP for high-end CPUs for a long time. At this targeted TDP, AMD found a 3.4 GHz chip could be produced with decent yields. Some thought, research and design goes into the launch of a new CPU even if it's just a 200 MHz clockspeed bump.
Don't worry, we'll not see a 160W or 180W CPU any time soon since 140W is a sensible target. Modern heatpipe coolers, mobos and PSUs have no trouble with them.
If you think the difference between a 65W and a 140W CPU is too much, you must live in a very dark house or apartment since each light bulb consumes almost that entire difference. Reply
PrinceGaz - Friday, August 14, 2009 - linkMy lightbulbs consume between 12 and 20W of power each as I long since left behind inefficient incandescent bulbs. Reply
hyc - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkYou guys are reading way too much into that 140W TDP spec. Look at the loaded power consumption results, the 965 is 223W vs 220W for the 955. So it's using a whopping 3W more than the 955, BFD.
Griswold - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkSome people seem to miss the T for Thermal in that figure indeed. Reply
hyc - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkAh, so which part of the Laws of Thermodynamics did you skip in school?
You can't emit more power out (thermal or otherwise) than you took in. Reply
Griswold - Saturday, August 15, 2009 - linkThats not the point, dummy, its the maximum heat disssipation and that people mistake it for the power it draws from the wall plug. Got it? Reply
Eeqmcsq - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - link"The 800 series Phenom II X4 is gone, as are the DDR2-only Phenom II X4 940 and 920. Most of the 700 series is also done with."
I can understand AMD ending the 800 series and the AM2+ only Phenom IIs. But is this statement saying that AMD won't upgrade their X3 720 to a faster triple core, despite better yields? Many people have said that the 720 is AMD's best bang-for-the-buck value. I'd think that AMD would update this segment also. Reply
Ryun - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkMy guess is AMD is working on positioning their lineup to fight against Lynnfield in the lower end. The triple cores are awesome, no doubt but look at what we've got now:
1.) Phenom II 945 with a TDP of 95W, Phenom II 720 with a TDP of 95W. I'm willing to bet that AMD is planning to move an AMD 925 down to around the same price as the 720. OEMs will love the lower heat requirements and the lowered price. These are going to combat probably against the Core i5's without hyperthreading and from what I've seen I'd wager they'd do pretty well.
2.) Last I checked there were still plans to make triple and quad cores of the athlon ii design. These are gonna go in the low end to combat against clarkdale I'd suppose. OEMs selling PCs are probably wanna going to get rid of their stockpile of DDR2 memory somehow so I'd surmise these would sell very well also.
All and all I'd wager that AMD will do fine until Bulldozer releases as long as they a) Make sure they market these processors well to OEMs b) really ramp up their mobile lineup in the coming months
Look at the 4800 series success afterall. Most people just don't care about the highend and if AMD can have competitive prices they should do well. Reply
Nalyk - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkIs this just a straight clock bump on AMD's part from the 955 due to improved manufacturing? And if so why would consumers shell out another $50 if the head room is already there on the 955 I figure half the reason people buy the Black Editions is so they can play with the multiplier. Am I wrong?
I suppose I can understand their need for cash, but I personally feel it difficult to justify shelling out another $50 for 200Mhz especially if the head room is there already on the same chip. Or by releasing this chip are they implying that there's even more head room on this 965? Reply
Eeqmcsq - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkPage 6, char for "POV-Ray 3.73 beta 23 Ray Tracing Performance". Reply
Vozer - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkBased on our preliminary results, I'd expect the race to be reasonably close between the 965 BE and the Core i5 750 but the i7 850 may prove to be the sweet spot at only $40 more.
Core i7 850? :) Reply
jmke - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkYup, Core i7; All Nehalem CPUs with 8 threads are i7 series, those with 4 threads are i5 series; those without turboboost are i3
http://en.expreview.com/2009/08/11/a-simple-way-to...">http://en.expreview.com/2009/08/11/a-si...tinguish... Reply
Eeqmcsq - Thursday, August 13, 2009 - linkEr, sorry, page 5 Reply
michssxx - Saturday, December 11, 2010 - linkHi
I'm new and I want to just say Hello.
My nick is: http://www.25mbits.com">michssxx
I hope to write many of posts in this forum...
If it's wrong thread to say Hello, please move to correct one. Reply
ToeringsNthong - Saturday, January 22, 2011 - linkOne main problem i see with this review although its a good review is you should also include the SAME CLOCK SPEEDS! like example i'll just pick a RANDOM cpu like the q6600 you are comparing something at 2.4 ghz to something that's running at 3.4ghz that just don't make any sense whatsoever ! can you please explain how is that is a fair comparison?
And dont try and say we don't over clock these! anyone with half a brain knows the q6600 can hit 3.4ghz without even breaking a sweat ! even with a crappy mobo ! I know this isn't a overclock review BUT STILL you should have included a fair comparison like hardocp does they always do a APPLES TO APPLES comparison.
Second thing is you mention you don't know why intel still sells socket 775 cpus,i know why its because we are not all rich like you guys and cant afford a complete upgrade,
Some of us still have 775 motherboards and don't have the money to run out and buy new motherboards and ddr3 ram,does that explain it to you?? Glad i could be of assistance. Reply


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|Goodwill Industries of the Columbia-Willamette
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Ballpoint Pens & Cases
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Swarovski Ball Point Pen with Glass Crystals
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5 Pen/Pencil Sets - silver Cross set with "DARE" Emblem, Eversharp pen and pencil, and more.
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Forgive my ignorance... water smoke?
Sorry, old foggie language. Firing the kiln with lid propped, or peeps out. Some call it candling, I have always known it as water smoking, all a matter of semantics.
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Posted 29 April 2013 - 09:01 PM
Forgive my ignorance... water smoke?
Posted 01 May 2013 - 07:11 AM
Forgive my ignorance... water smoke?
Sorry, old foggie language. Firing the kiln with lid propped, or peeps out. Some call it candling, I have always known it as water smoking, all a matter of semantics.
On Instagram @chris_throws_pots
Posted 01 May 2013 - 02:07 PM
good question!
as many answers as potters firing. answering for someone truly new to this and assuming they have a manual kiln i offer the following.
my first kiln, a paragon electric about 18 inches inside diameter and about 18 inches deep, came with an instruction book when i bought it in 1972. it said to put the bottom switch on low for one hour followed by the middle switch on low one hour later and the top switch on low one hour later. lid propped an inch and all peephole plugs out.
then follow the same sequence with the medium switches and at the end of the six hours since the beginning, start putting the high switches on. at that point check for possible water vapor leaving through the peepholes and the top using a mirror to see if it clouds up. finding NO steam on the mirror, proceed. once the bottom high switch goes on, the peephole plugs go in and the top is closed. do not burn yourself at this point and carefully lower the top with a long, strong metal tool so you do not bang it closed. removing the prop is tricky too, be prepared to get it safely to a safe surface until it cools. kitchen tongs, long ones, work here. they will bend if you try to use them to lower the lid.
the firing after all the switches are on high should only be a few,( 3- 5) hours depending on your element's age and condition. i fire to cone 04 these days since losing 3 loads to underfired bisque in 1990. have never had anything go wrong using this schedule even now with a much bigger automatic kiln fired to cone 6 with raw glazed work and the occasional refire on a piece i didn't like all in the same firing. now that i said that watch what will happen to the next one!!
here in florida i have a smaller manual kiln with a timer as well as a kiln sitter. never having a timer i set it for 10 hours the first time i fired this used kiln and learned that 5 hours is enough. have no idea of the element's condition. though i prefer to spray glaze and fire raw, i have to bisque here and take everything north to glaze it at home in a larger space.
hope this helps someone new.OOOHHH! YES!!! if you are new, start right and keep a log of exactly what you do so if anything happens you can repeat or avoid it.
Posted 01 May 2013 - 02:09 PM
Neil Estrick
Kiln Repair Tech
L&L Kilns Distributor
Owner, Neil Estrick Gallery, LLC
Posted 18 May 2013 - 12:06 PM
I wonder if stoneware will have enough time to get rid/ougas all organic impurities if ramping from the anbient to Cone 04 takes only 4 hours.
Do you use stoneware and glaze it routinely? Do you glaze at about cone 5-6 or use a low temp stuff? Did you notice glazing defects indicative of incomplete impurities burnout?
I only use stoneware clay that can be fired up to 1300C and glazes cone 6-9 (1240-1280C).
What I understand is that
500C-800C(cone 022-015?) range is really important because this is when you finally get rid of all the organic matter including carbon, sulfur etc. Pro's write it's good to go through that temp range "slowly" but they never bother explaining what "slowly" means in this context. 100 C per h? 150 C/h? What is "slowly"?
BTW, I changes my bisque firing schedule and now I go up to 1013 C (06) .
This is my bisque firing schedule:
From ambient to 600C in 300 minutes, and from 600C to 1013C in 150 minutes and then letting it cool naturally.
What do you think about this schedule? Is there any point adding a 1-3 min soak at the top temperature?
I personally like the result. Pieces are strong enough and easy to glaze.
Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:10 PM
Posted 23 May 2013 - 08:07 AM
image.jpg 77.32KB 11 downloads
I'm having some problems with bisque firings and would like to run this by you...
I use stoneware which I underglaze at leather hard, then I sgraffito the piece. I let it get to bone dry and do the bisque in an old kiln - it has 4 on/off switches; the manual said to flip one switch an hour and then wait till the kiln sitter turns it off (^04). then I apply clear glaze to the cooled work and fire to ^5 using a newer kiln with an electronic controller.
Then I started having a problem. After the glaze firing some of my pieces had areas, usually circular, where the it looks like the glaze has pulled away, taking the under glaze with it. So there's a small area, sometimes several all near each other, where the clay body is exposed. In the photo, hopefully you can see the white spots, center right. Because I use their products, I called Amaco for help. I was told my bisque firing was too fast, that out gassing was not complete. And I was told a bisque to ^04 should take 10-12 hours! So now, hearing about these fast bisques, I'm confused.
I was an advocate of bisqueing as fast as possible - my little old kiln could fire off in 5 hours. But lately that doesn't seem to be working for me, so I'm going to to do a really slow bisque next time, as Amaco recommends. But why is it that some of you have no problems with a fast bisque? Wouldn't incomplete out gassing affect your glazes? Any thoughts on this? Thanks!
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GLBenchmark 2.0 Released - Modern SoCs Benchmarkedby Brian Klug on 12/17/2010 2:08 AM EST
- Posted in
- GLBenchmark
- Smartphones
- Mobile
- SoC
64 Comments
Back to Article
warisz00r - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkThe graphics shown on them looks quite... erm... frosted butts? Reply
zebrax2 - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkIt looks like to me that they made the characters super shiny but because of the low polygon count of the character themselves it created chunks of colors instead of a nice transition. Reply
luigi777 - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linki have nexus one i didn't experinced the "supershiny" effect. the woman's skin looks much better Reply
B3an - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkPretty disappointing graphics for something that's meant to show them off. The textures and modelling are not exactly great quality either. Reply
nnkirk - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkBrian, where is n900 benchmarks ? i read the software suite supports maemo also,..
Nnkirk Reply
Brian Klug - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkOops, that actually was the N900. I don't know why I put N8, it's because I've been staring at that phone a lot lately. Fixed!
-Brian Reply
solnyshok - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkwrong resolution for Nokia n8. Reply
kagenokurei - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkyup..N8 has 640x360(nHD)..
and it definitely doesnt have a 600MHz OMAP..neither a PowerVR SGX..looks like its supposed to be the N900...
i'll be running the test on my N8 now..just to see where it sits w/ its 680MHz ARM core and Broadcom GPU... Reply
kavanoz - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkMy N8 is not able to run some of the tests (ie: Egypt) Reply
Brian Klug - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkThat should've been the N900, my mistake!
-Brian Reply
NickDG - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkCan we see an OMAP3 SoC running at 1ghz? Droid X perhaps?
Thanks Reply
Brian Klug - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkI had to send ours back, but I'm trying to find one to include when we launch the smartphone bench. What I have now represents what I had on hand, but I'm equally interested in seeing Droid 2 or Droid X scores at 1 GHz. I'm trying to snag one. ;)
-Brian Reply
sarge78 - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkJust behind the new snapdragons.
Egypt. 13fps
Pro. 23fps
(Motorola defy @ 1ghz) Reply
sarge78 - Friday, December 17, 2010 - link^
The defy is running 2.1 btw (it shouldn't make a huge difference though?) Reply
zorxd - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkIsn't this a 320x480 device? The Droid X/2 would also be interesting. Reply
sarge78 - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkIt's got the usual Motorola 854x480 FWVGA screen (essentially the same phone as droid 2/X etc)
Just like the new Qualcomms they'll be SGX530 or memory bandwidth bound. Reply
deputc26 - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkGood call, that's a fairly glaring omission. Reply
probedb - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkSeriously? Is this right? Same GPU but the iPhone 4 has a faster CPU and yet it's slower? Reply
Chloiber - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkResolution and same GPU. Reply
choirbass - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkyep.
3gs is .1536mp @ 320x480 600mhz
most androids are .384mp @ 800x480 1ghz
ip4 is .6144mp @ 960x640 850mhz
ipad is .786432mp @ 1024x768 1ghz
so the ip4 is driving 4x the resolution of ip3gs, most androids 2x and ipad just over 5x
hopefully that should put the benchmarks more into perspective, because otherwise there is a huge unexplained disparity like was mentioned. Reply
Shadowmaster625 - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkWe need to see the benchmark results adjusted for screen resolution. The simplest way to do it is take the screen resolution and multiply the X and the Y and then multiply that by the FPS score then divide by 1 million.
For example, the iPad 4 scored 4.6 and has a resolution of 1024x768. So the "real" score would be 1024 x 768 x 4.6 / 1000000 = 3.62. And the 3GS is 320x480x14.5/1000000 = 2.23. By doing this we will easily see in the graphs that the iPad is 62% faster than the 3GS. Reply
7Enigma - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkThe problem with this (unlike desktop/laptop computers) is that the phone is going to run native resolution ALL the time. You can't simply lower the res and get better performance, so while the numbers are skewed, I'd argue they are accurate.
What obviously has to happen then is games made for a higher resolution device such as the iPhone4 will have to have lower-quality textures/effects to maintain playable while the lower res phones can have higher-quality textures/effects.
Similar to the current (or maybe a bit ago) desktop gaming where people with >24" monitors were having to keep some of the eye candy off (high levels of AA for instance) while those of us gaming on 19" screens could have everything maxed out. It's personal preference whether bigger (with less quality) is better. Reply
vol7ron - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkI totally agree that the numbers should be kept as is, since that is how they will be viewed. It's not theoretical figures we're trying to see, it's actual performance.
It's important to note that certain devices have higher resolution, thus the fps may be affected, but the visual quality should seem better.
Though, it would be nice to have an indexed theoretical comparison as mentioned. Something that uses the lowest common denominator so we can compare the performance in terms of resolution. Of course, there are many factors that would affect this index (memory size, memory speed, gpu, cpu, available nand, screen type, screen resolution, etc), but since we're lumping the memory/gpu/cpu all into one category, the resolution is the only other variable that will mostly affect the performance. - I'm curious to see what kind if a correlation truly does exist. Reply
therealnickdanger - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkFrom the first test, using your methodology, it certainly does shake up the list a bit...
Samsung Fascinate 8.3, Google Nexus S 8.0 top out the list. Reply
therealnickdanger - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkDumb spam filter...
T-Mobile G2 6.6, T-Mobile myTouch 4G 6.3 seem comparable. Reply
therealnickdanger - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkApple iPhone 4 3.6, Apple iPad 3.6 are identical... big surprise! Reply
therealnickdanger - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkOK, apparently I can't post any more of my "spam".
Anyway, it would be good of AT to normalize the benchmarks for resolution. It seems like the only fair way to compare them. Of course, the raw data is important as well, but quadrupling resolution is certainly an important distinction.
I'm running the full suite on my LG Optimus S right now and it's doing pretty well - much better Egypt score than the Optimus One. Reply
therealnickdanger - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkSprint LG Optimus S - root, but stock ROM, no OC:
Egypt: 14.6fps
Egypt FSAA: 12.8fps
But then it crashed trying to upload results. Oh well, the site thinks my phone is a Optimus One (similar, but not identical), so it's probably best that I don't upload my scores. Reply
zorxd - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkIt actually is. The iPad has a better CPU so should be faster. However it has less RAM. But it's surprising that they get the exact same score. Reply
Shadowmaster625 - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linklol does it think you are trying to sell something? Like that chinese spammer who kept posting t-shirts 5, shoes 9 bla bla bla Reply
metafor - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkThat really only makes sense if the benchmark is completely fill rate bound. Which it doesn't appear to be. There's more to 3D graphics than just filling the pixels on screen. Reply
marc1000 - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkyep, they kept the same GPU but increased the resolution A LOT. this thing is looking bad for apple, because the new hummingbird is so much faster... if only the developers for android could leverage performance.... Reply
ET - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkThe NookColor looks like it's going to be a good Android tablet to buy once it gets Android 2.2 and app store access next month. Can't help but wonder what kind of 3D performance it has. Reply
kilkennycat - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkWould be very interesting to add the GLBenchmark 2.0 results for the upcoming Tegra2-based LG Optimus 2X phone to this collection. See:-
Likely to blow away all the competition? Dual-core 1GHz A9 Cortex-ARM plus nV graphics.
Also, it now seems pretty obvious why Steve Jobs is running scared from the latest GPU-accelerated Adobe Flash 10.1/10.2. The iPhone and iPad are true graphics slugs... Reply
marraco - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkHow pathetic is the iPad. Reply
xype - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkInfinity Blade plays nicely on the iPad and the 3GS I have. As does Rage HD.
But then, I haven't seen any comparison where those two were running on Android, so who knows, right? Reply
silverblue - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkThe lack of cross-platform games isn't helping here.
For one, I'd like to see how Asphalt 5 performs, but it seems frame-capped on or under-optimised for the Galaxy S. Give it a benchmark mode and you could compare the iPhones and Android devices in at least one title.
A benchmark for Angry Birds would likely be a waste of time as it's smooth enough. Reply
headrush69 - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkObviously these tests are resolution dependent since the iPhone 3GS with a slower CPU and same SGX 535 beats the iPad and iPhone 4.
As a result comparison direct comparison between Android and newer iOS devices isn't exact but it appears iOS devices are lagging.
One wonders if the SGX 540 used in new iOS devices will change that or if it's a poor Open GL ES stack implementation from Apple, same as on OS X. Reply
marraco - Saturday, December 18, 2010 - link1024x768 does not justify the difference.
And the fruity company sells the screen size, so it should sell a fully functional unit.
It pretends to "sell a Ferrari", but without the Ferrari engine. Reply
prdola0 - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkHello AT,
the screenshots in the article show some serious rendering glitches. My guess is that part of the graphics memory is damaged. This is NOT how the benchmark should look. On which device did you get these results?
Best regards,
Prdola Reply
Devo2007 - Saturday, December 18, 2010 - linkI saw these same issues on my Galaxy S (Froyo). so it's possible that is the phone they grabbed the screenshots from. Reply
overzealot - Saturday, December 18, 2010 - linkHave you ever seen a rendering with damaged memory before?
That video is nothing like it. Nothing AT ALL. Reply
LordSojar - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkWhy no Tegra2 benchmarks? LG's Optimus 2X utilizes it, as does an upcoming phone from Motorola. And that's excluding the tablets that current are or soon will be using it: Viewsonic G, RIM Playbook, Notion Ink ADAM, Samsung's Galaxy S-2 Tab, and Motorola's tablet that was shown running Honeycomb.
So.. why no Tegra2 results. We already know it will likely slaughter everything, but I'd like to know by how much. Reply
A5 - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkThey have to have hardware to test, and as far as I know they haven't reviewed any Tegra 2 hardware. Reply
Roland00Address - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkThey do have a tablet running Tegra2 hardware. It is the viewsonic g1 tablet running Tegra2 and 1024x600
We got a first look here
Currently they are getting it ready for a review. Sadly the software it comes with stinks so they have to root it to make it useful. Reply
srench - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linklordSojar wrote: "So.. why no Tegra2 results. We already know it will likely slaughter everything, but I'd like to know by how much."
You should wait for the hardware and benchmarks before calling the result. Nvidia have very little experience in low power SoC.
Most of the players listed are well into next gen graphics chips. I expect the later versions of SGX will appear in ipad2 and possibly MP versions.
Nvidia would have to beat these results by miles just to stay relevant in this space.
re ipad results - too many comments are not taking into account screen size! Reply
DeathReborn - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkAlthough not benched by me these are the scores for the Malata Zpad (Tegra 2 tablet)
1024x600 Res:
Egypt - 19.9 fps
Pro - 41.4 fps
For Comaprison the Galaxy Tab gets this:
Egypt - 15.9 fps
Pro - 30.9 fps
About Hummingbird SGX540 performance with a higher resolution. Performance of Tegra 2 may increase with a Dual Core configured OS (Malata Zpad isn't running one). Reply
epol - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkIf you are looking to add a Droid 2 to the mix, use the Droid 2 Global. This is what will be replacing the Droid 2 and it runs at 1.2 ghz. Right now they're both being sold but Moto's plan is to let the Droid 2 Global replace the Droid 2 as stock sells out. Reply
zhill - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkThe disparity in actual performance between the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4/iPad is exactly why I'm very skeptical of a *major* upgrade to the display in the next iPad. Anything approaching "Retina" resolutions (300dpi) would mean the panel would far exceed 1080p and there is no way that the current-gen or even next-gen SoCs could push enough pixels for playable framerates at that resolution--probably not even Tegra2. If 1024x768 is 0.7MP and 132ppi then to get even to 200ppi you'd need something at least 1550x1162 (more realistically it would be either 1400x1050 and approx 180ppi or 1600x1200 and 206ppi) while a full 300ppi is a ridiculous 2325x1743--almost the same number of pixels as a 30" lcd monitor! So for the sake of argument, let's say they go with 1600x1200 to give the iPad a nice 206ppi. That is a 1.92MP display and a 144% increase in pixel count! I haven't seen any verifiable performance tests of Tegra2 and current SoCs, but there is a chance that nvidia's silicon could be up to the task; however, that would mean Apple would have to abandon their own silicon, which I don't see happening. Battery life would also most likely be abysmal, and the cost of such a large high-res screen would make it infeasible. Hence, I don't think we'll see any major upgrades to the iPad screen any time soon and these benchmarks show why. Reply
overzealot - Saturday, December 18, 2010 - linkUnless they decide to run a discrete GPU. It'd have to be pretty light though. Reply
ThePooBurner - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkThe N900 is known to perform substantially better at almost everything when overclocked, and most of them can run at 900mhz without breaking a sweat. Could you try running it on an OC'ed N900? :) Reply
michael2k - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkSame HW, faster clock, but lower score? Even the iPhone 3GS scores higher... I'm assuming this is due to the screen resolution, then, more than anything else?
Also, the caption for the second graph is wrong if you meant to say OpenGL ES 1.1 Reply
ltcommanderdata - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkPeople have already talked about iPhone 4/iPad performance against the iPhone 3GS not looking good due to the Retina Display, but I wonder why the gap closes in the OpenGL ES 1.1 results? Perhaps the iPhone 3GS is bandwidth or CPU bound in the simpler OpenGL ES 1.1 test vs. the iPhone 4/iPad being shader and ROP bound in the OpenGL ES 2.0 test? It's interesting that the iPhone 4/iPad seem to overtake a few Android phones in the OpenGL ES 1.1 test which probably indicates different levels of OpenGL ES stack and driver optimizations.
Personally, I think it would be useful to supplement the raw results with comparisons normalized to the device resolution. This will give an indication of raw GPU power and level of OpenGL ES stack and driver optimization between devices. This is especially useful to compare progress between Android devices running different OS versions.
As well, for the iPhone 4, these results give credence to the suggestion that in some cases it might be beneficial to stick with the 480x320 resolution but implement AA rather than go 960x480. The iPhone 4's 64-bit memory controller with double the memory bandwidth should be very helpful in making AA viable and sticking with a common 480x320 resolution should allow a common code path between 3rd gen and 4th gen devices which is also tempting for developers. Reply
ltcommanderdata - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkOh, I don't suppose the OpenGL ES 1.1 test can be run on the previous MBX Lite based devices? It would give an interesting point of comparison of how much progress has been made in the last 2 years. Reply
madmongoose - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkHow is it a fair comparison if u compare each with its own native resolution
Shouldn't they be tested at one low resolution that hopefully all support ? Reply
DeathReborn - Friday, December 17, 2010 - linkThis site lists loads of scores across various devices.
The Malata Zpad is the Tegra 2 device listed on there, hopefully some Advent Vega's (also Tegra 2) will be on it soon. Reply
sarge78 - Saturday, December 18, 2010 - linkLooks like a pure GPU benchmark to me, I get the same results from going from 800Mhz all the way to 1.3Ghz (OMAP 36xx/SGX530) Reply
DesktopMan - Saturday, December 18, 2010 - linkWould have liked to see HTC Desire in these charts as it's very popular, at least here in Europe. Also, the correct name for Samsung Fascinate is Samsung I9000 Galaxy S as Fascinate is just a re-branded version for Verizon and a name completely unknown to global readers. Reply
Spazweasel - Monday, December 20, 2010 - linkA closer look:
Obviously, the number of pixels in the screen matters a great deal. I've calculated the number of pixels on the screen, and using the performance data given have calculated the number of megapixels per second the phones in question can push:
SamsungFascinate SGX540 8.2
GoogleNexusS SGX540 8
TMobileG2 Adreno205 6.6
TMobileMyTouch4G Adreno205 6.2
AppleIPhone4 SGX535 3.6
AppleIPad SGC535 3.6
NokiaN900 SGX530 2.8
MotorolaDroid SGX530 2.8
HTCEvo4G Adreno200 2.8
NexusOne Adreno200 2.7
AppleIPhone3GS SGX535 2.2
LGOptimusOne Adreno200 1.5
GoogleNexusS SGX540 16
SamsungFascinate SGX540 15.6
AppleIPhone4 SGX535 9.9
AppleIPad SGX535 9.9
TMobileMyTouch4G Adreno205 9.6
TMobileG2 Adreno205 9.4
NokiaN900 SGX530 4.9
MotorolaDroid SGX530 4.6
AppleIPhone3GS SGX535 3.7
HTCEvo4G Adreno200 2.2
NexusOne Adreno200 2.2
LGOptimusOne Adreno200 1.3
The clear winners are the Fascinate and Nexus S. The next best are the Apple iPhone4 and iPad on the Pro benchmark, while on the Egypt benchmark the TMobile products are third and fourth.
CPU matters hugely (compare iPhone 3GS, 4, iPad, same GPU, different CPU), but the scaling is much greater on the Pro benchmark (better CPU gives almost 3x the megapixels per second) than on the Egypt benchmark (about 1.7x).
Resolution comes at a price in framerate. But you're Anandtech readers, you knew that. Right? Reply
sarge78 - Monday, December 20, 2010 - linkDoesn't the iPad/iP4 SGX535 run @ ~200Mhz? Almost twice the 110Mhz of the 3GS... (Largely due to the die shrink) Reply
ibex333 - Wednesday, December 22, 2010 - linkWhy would you benchmark Motorolla Droid, but now Droid 2 GLOBAL, and Droid X?
Seems unfair to pit an outdated device against newer, faster ones. Reply
smile chen - Monday, December 27, 2010 - linkWhen playing games and operating ipad without Reply
smile chen - Monday, December 27, 2010 - linkchina ipad Reply
Rish105 - Friday, December 31, 2010 - linkThe graphics in this app don't look to good. I think it is directly testing the shaders and not pushing fill rate at all. Which would put iOS devices at a major disadvantage, since Apple is using the same crappy OpenGL ES 2.0 stack that they use on Macs. Otherwise I'm sure that the SGX 535 is about equal to the Adreno 205 (in terms of shear fill rate and raw processing power), since it was over twice as fast as the Adreno 200 in earlier benchmarks. And the SGX 540 should completely top the chart by more than it is doing now (Samsung's fault for using crap 3D drivers like Apple)
Also we need resolution relative scores. An iPhone 4 is pushing 4X the res of a 3GS, and 2X the res of the WVGA phones. Which would put it at 12 FPS if it scales perfectly and just about half the SGX 540 which seems realistic.
But still the graphics in this app look terrible. I've played Real Racing 2, Infinity Blade, Rage HD, NOVA 2 and other intensive games on my 3rd gen iPod and they all run at a stable 30 FPS and they all look better than this (better shader usage, more detail, more polygons, etc.).
We need a more comprehensive benchmark. This is a bad one. Reply


text:
Android 3.1 on the ASUS Eee Pad Transformerby Anand Lal Shimpi on 5/28/2011 8:15 PM EST
- Posted in
- Eee Pad
- Asus
- Smartphones
- Android 3.1
- Mobile
- Tablets
43 Comments
Back to Article
sprockkets - Saturday, May 28, 2011 - linkToo bad they are in short supply. Reply
fatso485 - Saturday, May 28, 2011 - linkthe stable 1.6GHZ kernel is out http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1...
it should be tested Reply
ProDigit - Saturday, May 28, 2011 - linkIt's 399Eur, or a good $550, not $399! Reply
shabby - Saturday, May 28, 2011 - linkYou europeans are paying a 40% tax on it, its $399 over here. Reply
risa2000 - Sunday, May 29, 2011 - linkIn fact, even though there is VAT (~17-25) around Europe, I believe this is so called "Apple exchange rate". Introduced by Apple when they found out their stuff would be insanly cheap here, they set 1 EUR = 1 USD.
It has been later adopted by Valve's Steam for no obvious reason except making more money. Reply
jalexoid - Monday, May 30, 2011 - linkFortunately the tablet + dock combo is cheaper in UK than in US.
UK price 429 GBP = 710 USD
US price 730 USD Reply
darkhawk1980 - Tuesday, May 31, 2011 - link...
I don't think you get it.
I paid $503 for my 32gb transformer, and $155 for my dock.
$658 total for the tablet and dock is still cheaper than your $710 USD in the UK. I don't know where you get your prices, but they're a bit wrong... Reply
nagi603 - Sunday, May 29, 2011 - linkHell, it's closer to $650 where I live... damn "exchange" rate. Reply
dananski - Sunday, May 29, 2011 - linkYeah, it's £370 ($609.50) in the UK and that's at the cheapest dodgy online store, it's at least another £10 from any reputable place. It's 'only' £399 for an ipad 2, but I thought this Asus was meant to be a much cheaper alternative rather than competition at the same price point. Reply
robinthakur - Tuesday, May 31, 2011 - linkIt is a poor man's iPad but ironically costs far more...which is the poblem with all Honeycomb tablets thus far. I voted with my money and just bought an iPad2 having tried out the Xoom and the Transformer and don't regret my decision one bit. The difference in smoothness is in order of magnitudes. Reply
Lasallian - Sunday, May 29, 2011 - linkProDigit: that's just the price gougers ... got none for $399 usd. Reply
joe_dude - Saturday, May 28, 2011 - linkAnand, which device(s) are you bringing with you to Computex? What is your "go-to" device on a long-haul trip? Reply
Sagath - Saturday, May 28, 2011 - linkI believe he has said its a SB based MacBook Pro 15" in other articles. Reply
jjj - Saturday, May 28, 2011 - linkI wonder if we'll see a Kal-El netbook from Asus at Computex or just Tegra 2 and if it will run Android or Chrome OS. Reply
Rayb - Sunday, May 29, 2011 - linkI believe that there are a few manufacturers that have sampled Tegra 3 since the end of february and in line to deliver new products this year with the new chip. Tegra 2 is already outdated since it took so long for manufacturers to adopt it, with Kal-El bringing 5x the performance I don't doubt we'll see it at Computex in different configurations. Reply
Blaster1618 - Sunday, May 29, 2011 - linkI still confused why these things are rolling out with Android OS and not Chrome OS. It just doesn't make any marketing sense. At some point either Chrome OS is going to evaporate (which its such a big hit now I wouldn't be surprised) or the two are going to collide.
The majority of the john and Joan Public don't even know that Chrome OS exists or/and are just confused because it has the same name as the browser.
They should have called it "Chrome Extreme", "CS-winning" or "Co za asy".
dagamer34 - Sunday, May 29, 2011 - linkJust like Android 1.0, I'd say the tablet version needs a few revisions before I'd bother recommending it to someone else. And the tearing in that scrolling performance is horrendous.
Honestly, if Google just spent one major revision only improving performance of the current system (scrolling, graphical animations, fixing bugs, streamlining UI), i think that'd be perfect. It's the persistent problems that I just know Google engineers must be aware of that need to be fixed sooner rather than later. Reply
bplewis24 - Sunday, May 29, 2011 - linkYou say they need a few revisions, but iOS has had a couple revisions and it still does the same type of thing... it just manifests itself differently (as Anand points out). So it's disingenuous to act like Google engineers are just incompetent or rushing the product. Reply
robinthakur - Tuesday, May 31, 2011 - linkNo iOS is generally smooth as. All google Android handsets and Tablets i've used have suffered from the weird scrolling since I started using them. This lack of smoothness is jarring coming from an iOS device and is the most prominent reason why I would never switch until it's fixed - It just feels like they don't care about detail or user experience as it stands or they are trying to cater to types that don't notice the difference. Reply
S4ndy - Sunday, May 29, 2011 - linkYou will be even more surprise if you have to send your tablet back to Asus for repair. I did. The second day the sound was gone on the brand new tablet. Called the customer service and they identified the problem with a faulty sound card. Brand new under warranty, but THEY REFUSED TO PAY FOR SHIPPING. I had to shell out $30 just to ship it to them when it is all their fault.
I should have bought an Acer A500 instead. If you consider attaching a USB keyboard instead of the Asus dock, and the hidden cost of repair shipping, I'd save myself almost $200. Reply
uncola - Sunday, May 29, 2011 - link3.1 running great on my asus transformer. youtube app plays 720p smooth as heck now. also it's just generally faster and the scroll bar in the browser is awesome, no lag at all scrolling top to bottom on engadget.com is worth the tearing to me Reply
Zingam - Monday, May 30, 2011 - linkHow about scrolling complex PDF documents. Zooming-in and out.
And how about PDF documents of scanned pages as large images (non OCRed)? Reply
jalexoid - Monday, May 30, 2011 - link"THEY REFUSED TO PAY FOR SHIPPING"
What company pays for shipping of items under warranty? Reply
khimera2000 - Monday, May 30, 2011 - linkDont know... but dell makes free house calls on my warrenty, and didnt do a shaby job to :) plus i got to see the inside of my notebook without voiding the warenty this time around :D Reply
robinthakur - Tuesday, May 31, 2011 - linkThe Acer is built even worse than the Asus! I think you were just unlucky unfortunately, but Asus quality control has annoyed me too in the past with DOA motherboards and graphic cards and naturally, the support is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. Reply
softdrinkviking - Sunday, May 29, 2011 - linkAnand, I am seriously hoping that there is some details on the upcoming Asus Slider at computex. I read some rumours about Asus changing the Tegra 2 for the new Atom, which would make sense, especially if they put a Win 7 device out.
I wonder 1. how that will effect battery life VS the transformer device, and 2. how the GPU will work out in an atom based slider VS the Tegra 2 in the transformer. Reply
Mishera - Sunday, May 29, 2011 - linkI'm looking forward to the Slider too. I cant help but to wonder if this form factor is what intel needs to jump into the tablet market, but It doesn't seem like android is the os solution. Maybe we'll see some iteration of mameo on these devices in the future. Reply
unidentifiedbones - Sunday, May 29, 2011 - link
I think this says it all
'....but it's amazingly competent for an OS with its roots in smartphones'
Still an overgrown smartphone with very limited capabilities.
Still waiting for a tablet that doesn't break the bank, with good battery life that can run a real operating system at acceptable speeds.
Until that day all tablets remain very limited media consumption devices with little more than toy value.
Until that day, my wallet stays closed. Reply
ishbuggy - Tuesday, May 31, 2011 - linkExactly what I've been thinking. I need more than a device built for consumption. Reply
Skott - Sunday, May 29, 2011 - linkI been wanting a tablet for a year now but so far haven't bothered. I don't want an Apple product. The iPad2 is nice but I'm so tired of Apple this and Apple that. I want something different. The Xoom was the first thing that had me tempted to buy but I have held off to see what else was out there. I'm glad now I did.
The ASUS Transformer has me very tempted. The new enhancements makes it even more enticing. Debating to whether hold off more and see what the Summer/Fall brings. I'm hoping by late Fall there will be better Android tablets. The ASUS Transformer is very tempting though. Reply
vision33r - Sunday, May 29, 2011 - linkFrom hardware to software the iPad 2 won't be touched by anyone this year. Even the upcoming Samsung Galaxy Tab II will just be another iClone running Honeyblow.
Just look at the hardware performance differences, iPad 2 is the best gaming platform no wonder it has Nintendo 3DS beat easily this year.
Like Steve says all other tablets will be vaporware. Even the the Asus transformer will not be wanted after 2-3 month when another tablet out does it and this vicious cycle of competition helps Apple. Reply
ncb1010 - Sunday, May 29, 2011 - link"From hardware to software the iPad 2 won't be touched by anyone this year."
Kal-El is coming out in a shipping tablet later this year and will show a 5x graphics improvement over Tegra 2. In addition, it will have 4 Cortex-A9 vs 2 Cortex-A9. All of a sudden that 2x perform increase seen by the iPad 2 over Tegra based Android system evaporates and the roles are reversed. There will certainly be hardware later this year that will outperform iPad 2. Software is up for debate based on usage scenarios.
"Just look at the hardware performance differences, iPad 2 is the best gaming platform no wonder it has Nintendo 3DS beat easily this year."
If you truly need to compare a handheld to a tablet in performance, I could just as easily compare a 360 or PS3 against an iPad and show how it wipes the floor with it. We are also talking about a $250 vs a $500 device regardless of being different form factors.
If you are talking about unit sales, the Nintendo 3DS actually is nothing to sneeze at, after 1 month on the market in Japan and 1 week on the market elsewhere, it sold 3.5 million units. Estimates of iPad 2 sales in the first month of availability were 2.4-2.6 million units which are significantly lower than 3DS.
"Like Steve says all other tablets will be vaporware. Even the the Asus transformer will not be wanted after 2-3 month when another tablet out does it and this vicious cycle of competition helps Apple."
You don't have a clue what vaporware actually means? Vaporware is where a product doesn't get released. I don't know how you support your statement that all other tablets are vaporware by stating that another tablet gets released that is better than a previous one. In fact, it directly contradicts your statement by implying that there is a steady stream of released (i.e. not vaporware) tablets.
As far as continual improvement in the competitor's offering helping Apple, I am afraid that is wishful thinking. While releasing a better product does make other Android tablets less competitive than they once were, it also changes the competitive landscape when comparing iPad to Android devices more favorably towards Android than it was before. For instance, when the Quad Core Tegra 3 tablet gets released half way through a iPad refresh, the ARM SoC GPU performance crown will have been stolen from Apple. Reply
thunng8 - Sunday, May 29, 2011 - linkYou do realise that 5X performance increases is a purely marketing figure (like the 9x increase Apple claims for the ipad2 compared to ipad). I'll wait to see actual benchmarks before giving the crown to Tegra3. Reply
Zingam - Monday, May 30, 2011 - linkKal-El products 2012 :) So the guy is right nothing will touch iPad any time soon. Too bad... I don't want Apple too. Reply
robinthakur - Tuesday, May 31, 2011 - linkI think I can see what he was getting at actually. For build quality and coherence of the platform environment, nothing is likely to touch the iPad2 until the next revision next March/April. There is an inherent problem with the constant power race and replacing chipsets/GPU's etc beyond the impressive benchmark numbers, in that it is unlikely that Apps will make proper use of the increase in power during the useful life of the tablet apart from things made by Google and a handful of others. If they were to do so, then they would be virtually unusable on the earlier hardware revisions. I can now see why Android marketplace makes hardly any revenue for it's developers compared to the AppStore and the same issue is now happening on the tablet side as the phone side! They need a common spec to develop for not a constantly changing one. At the end of the day, most people don't just sit at home running benchmarks on their tablets. Is there any software as well made or optimised as Garageband for Android?
Instead of saying they are vapourware, a better saying would be that they would be 'gone in a flash'. Having been in the market for a Honeycomb tablet I initially focussed on the Xoom, then got put off by reviews and the high price, then the Iconia and was put off by reviews and then the Asus, but found it ludicrous that they could launch it without a working camera. Across all of them i found it hard to swallow the high price compared to the cheap-feeling build quality. I finally cracked and bought an iPad2 and don't regret my decision because you actually buy peace of mind that what you bought will not be instantly obsolete. His point about the 3DS is not well made though. Reply
DigitalFreak - Sunday, May 29, 2011 - linkCrawl back into your mama's basement, fanboy. Reply
spambonk - Sunday, May 29, 2011 - linkAnd still no comment about the supposed light bleed which gets worse as you use the device http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1... Reply
Omid.M - Sunday, May 29, 2011 - linkSeems to follow the adage of "wait for 3rd gen." Well, I'd consider a Kal-El tablet to be 3rd gen, anyway.
1st gen - G tab, Samsung Galaxy Tab 7"
2nd gen - Eee Pad, Xoom, Galaxy Tab 10.1
3rd gen - Kal-El
I'm sad that even the Tab 10.1, made by a company known for its display tech, seems to have a mediocre screen (allegedly, based on a review of the Google I/O 2011 Tabs that were given out).
None of the Android tabs have screens that seem to rival the quality of the iPad 2's.
@moids Reply
Zingam - Monday, May 30, 2011 - linkBy the time when generation 7 is out (just like Windows) we may actually see usable tablets. Until that time they'll be toys.
How about 2015? Reply
Shinobi_III - Tuesday, May 31, 2011 - linkWas it only me that noticed the hilarious grammatical error in the firmware update dialogue?
"Please do not remove the mobile dock and shut down your device."
For the lazy, it should obviously be "...or shut down..."
Now they're saying that I shouldn't remove it, and then turn it off while flashing... =) Reply
Secondstupid - Tuesday, June 07, 2011 - linkI think this pad is more useful than iPad beacause everything for iPad are not free. IPAD is expensive and there is not even flashpalyer for it! Jobs was crazy and he wanted money only.I say no to iPad.
I have a android pad with Android OS 2.2 install. It's very useful. Most of usb devices can be supported!
abount the solution for android pad,see below.
about the difference between Capacitive touchscreen and Resistive touchscreen,see below
I bought a android pad with 3G,HDMI,g-senor and the other function from here:
You can not make it instead of your desktop computer but you can make it instead of iPad Reply
eeetransformerugly - Sunday, September 25, 2011 - linkgood tablet for its price but had to return my eee transformer because of the screen flashing with horizontal lines and camera not working right. probably one of those defective ones but overall not a bad buy. also, found out that u cnt use video on skype and on yahoo messenger. love that it is adobe supported! resolution is awesome! love most of its features. dual cam. and apps! Reply
sealesmemory - Monday, March 05, 2012 - linkI bought mini speakers from Ceramic Glaze for my asus transformer tft101. According to the manual, the audio should automatically switch from the internal speakers to external when you plug it in. Mine do not. I tried to chat asus for help, and they were "momentarily," unavailable all night long. And every other time ive tried that route. I called their customer service, and long story short, im still trying to simmer down from the virtual abuse i recieved. After an hour of waiting for an "unavailable" supervisor, i hung up. I have no idea what to do. Can anyone help??? Reply


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My homemade Baileys Irish Cream led to far more questions and comments from my friends than my cupcakes ever do. "What's in Baileys Irish Cream?" "Where can I get the recipe for Baileys?" "OMG! This Baileys is sooo good! Will you be posting the Baileys recipe?" Sometimes I think that I should forget cupcakes altogether and just post recipes for things that people didn't realize they could make at home. Some of my most popular posts right now are homemade Kahlua, homemade grenadine (my most popular post of all time), how to make clotted cream, and homemade tahini. But, how could I ever give up on my petite frosted friends?
Products Related to Homemade Baileys Irish Cream
Homemade Baileys Irish Cream Recipe
Here is the homemade Baileys Irish Cream recipe for all of my friends, both on and offline. It's easy enough that you should have time to whip up a batch to take to your New Year's Eve parties! I found the recipe on a discussion forum on Chowhound. The entire discussion is worth a read. It contains lots of information about the drink. I am repriting it below with my notes.
- 1 cup light cream (I used heavy whipping cream, which made it even richer)
- 14 ounces sweetened condensed milk
- 1 2/3 cup Irish whiskey (I used Jameson's)
- 1 teaspoon instant coffee
- 2 tablespoons chocolate syrup
- 1 teaspoon vanilla
- 1 teaspoon almond extract (I skipped this entirely)
- Combine all ingredients in a blender and set on high speed for 30 seconds.
- Bottle in a tightly sealed container and refrigerate. Shake before using.
- Will keep for up to 2 months.
Video Demo
For a video demonstration of this recipe, check out my Baileys Irish Cream Holiday Hangout.