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Closing the Loop: Contained Liquid-Coolers from Corsair and NZXT Comparedby Dustin Sklavos on 12/26/2012 12:01 AM EST
68 Comments
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AdamK47 - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkThe Water 2.0 Extreme is also made by Asetek. How does this stack up agaist the NZXT Kraken X60? Reply
DrPi - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkYes, I'd like to see that too. Reply
Havor - Friday, December 28, 2012 - linkAs it's radiator is about double the thickness of the X60, the X60 has about 35% more surface area, and better preforming 140mm fans.
Overall i think it will be a toss up, ware i personally place my bet on the Water 2.0 Extreme. Reply
tsponholz - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkI have the Water 2.0 Performance and I'm thoroughly pleased with it. I'd love to see this series put up against this group. Reply
jonjonjonj - Sunday, December 30, 2012 - linkI agree. I just got a water2.0 today but haven't installed it yet. It was on sale for $45. How can you beat that. Reply
EzioAs - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkThis thing performs extremely good. Silence and cool. Maybe it's one of the benefits of 2x140mm. Corsair should've move to 140mm for the H100i/H80i when they updated it. On the other hand, choices for aftermarket 140mm fans are much lower than 120mm even though that's where the market should be heading to as you said.
You said in the opening that not a lot of cases have a 140mm fan mount and dual 140mm are even less but for people who are buying these should have decent case already and most newer cases in the mid to high end segment can at least support a single 140mm.
I didn't see you mention about the fins on any of the rads. Any chance you could clarify that? Reply
phamhlam - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkMost new case come with 140mm standard for top and rear exhaust. This allows for both installation of 140mm and 120mm fans/radiator. I would be surprise to see a quality case manufacture not include one. Even mini-ITX and mini-ATX case use 140mm fan mounts. Reply
EzioAs - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkYes I did mention that chassis these days have a 140mm fan mounts but what I was trying to point out is that most people who wants to spend $80+ for a cpu cooler should at least have a decent quality case already and quality case should have 140mm fan mounts.
What I really want to know is about the fins on the rads. It's almost impossible for the performance gap for the X60 and the H100i to be that wide seeing as it's just a slight increase in surface area and both coolers seem to have quality fans already. I'm guessing the X60 has a higher fins per inch rad than the H100i. Reply
CaptainDoug - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkThis is exactly the review I've been looking for. This site puts out the best reviews. Reply
phamhlam - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkThey also have the best benchmark list and very technical articles. Reply
CaptainDoug - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkVery true. Unbiased with lots of data. Great stuff. Reply
Novuake - Thursday, December 27, 2012 - linkVery technical? You mad? They did not go into ANYTHING technical on these coolers. All of this I can do in a 2 hours. Reply
Dustin Sklavos - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkThank you.
This review was actually my baby for a while, I'm glad it was helpful. :) Reply
mavere - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkGreat review. However, I do wish you included a low anchor (like maybe the stock Intel heatsink) to help visualize the performance numbers. Reply
MrSpadge - Saturday, December 29, 2012 - linkAnyone beats the stock HSF. A much more useful baseline (from my point of view) would have been a high end air cooler. Reply
DesktopMan - Sunday, December 30, 2012 - linkAgreed. Throwing in a couple high end air coolers for comparison would be very useful. Reply
geniekid - Monday, December 31, 2012 - linkAgreed. Reply
jospoortvliet - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkIt was surely useful, thanks for that. The one thing I miss is a bit about the pumps. For example, the H60 is in some places said to have a better (more quiet) pump than the H50. If one wants to replace the fans anyway (for example because your case already has real quiet fans and you just want to mount the rad on there), this is a very important point of consideration.
So, I'd love to hear exp between the X40, H55 and H60 - how do the radiators and pumps stack up against each other? You've played with them for a while, so I'm sure you have your thoughts on them... Reply
Dustin Sklavos - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkHonestly I continue to be on the fence about Corsair's pumps. The original H80 needed a refresh to get rid of pump rattle, and the H80i and H100i both needed firmware updates. Even then there's a hint of rattle in the H80i. The H55 and H60's pumps don't have any issues.
The pumps in the X40 and X60 need to "air out" a little on their initial startup, but after that they're dead quiet. Reply
jospoortvliet - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkThanks, really appreciate the feedback! I'll buy either the X40 (if it fits) or the H55/H60 and if the pumps and radiators are all similar I'll just go for the cheapest (H55).
J Reply
futrtrubl - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkJust a correction. The idle/load graph bars are swapped. According to the graphs they run hotter and louder at idle.
Otherwise an awesome review.
Thanks muchly. Reply
dishayu - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkI don't get the rationale of using no GPU and an ITX motherboard for this review. IMO, you should have used a big motherboard like a MSI Z77 Big Bang. The possibility of fitting these coolers in the desired configuration remains to be the biggest key concern for any buyer out there. I bought a H100 last year, couldn't fit it in push-pull configuration in my case, had to "downgrade" back to H60. A quick google search will tell you that there are very few cases that can actually accomodate H100 in push-pull configuration. And i suspect the X60 might run into the same problem. So, i believe the space saving by having no GPU and an ITX motherboard was the wrong way to do this review. And why not use an ivy bridge CPU? They run hotter than sandy and i'm sure we'd all like to see these coolers getting pushed as far as possible.
Besides, there aren't many people who'd buy a ~100$ CPU cooler but no dedicated GPU. So, the added heat from the GPU would have been a welcome addition to these test results. Reply
Dustin Sklavos - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkThe form factor of the motherboard is irrelevant to the results.
Removing the GPU allows me to isolate the radiator performance in a more absolute way.
It's true clearance is a serious issue for the double-length radiators in push-pull, but they don't seem to *need* to be run in push-pull either.
As for Ivy Bridge, I didn't have one on hand to test with. I did have an i7-2700K, and that's what I tested with. Reply
dishayu - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkI agree that the form factor doesn't affect the result significatly, but as i pointed out, getting these coolers to fit in the case is the single biggest concern and it should have been a part of the study as well.
More absolute, yes, but testing with a GPU will fetch closer to real world performance. Besides, same GPU in the same case won't really skew the result at all, would it?
They kinda do "need" push-pull config. The effect is drastic. That's the sole reason that the H100i performs lower than H80i in this test. The thicker radiator obstructs airflow and has a negative impact on cooling. Not using the H100i in push-pull sort of beats the purpose of buying one in the first place. Your review supports it as well, H80i is a better buy than H100i if it's gonna be used in pull only config.
Fair enough, although i imagined anandtech benching facility would have hundreds of CPUs just lying around :P Reply
A5 - Thursday, December 27, 2012 - linkIt would be difficult to have the GPU hit the same thermal profile every test. Removing it much easier to isolate the effects of the different systems without worrying about what the GPU did that run. Reply
mmonnin03 - Thursday, December 27, 2012 - linkThe whole cooling part of the review should have been done bare bones with no case. As is, the results are specific to this situation only with this case and not only based on the actual cooling performance of the cooler alone. A second section of the review could then cover how these fit into cases. This case may have minimized the affect of a case but its in not a true measurement of just the cooling capability. In fact, it's just more work for the reviewer installing all of these blocks to a case/motherboard. Reply
dishayu - Friday, December 28, 2012 - linkAgreed. What we have here is half way between real-world and raw performance numbers. Reply
lwatcdr - Friday, December 28, 2012 - linkFrankly no one needs push pull. It is all about looks with just about no gain. Frankly I do not like the looks but too each his own. As too motherboards size that just doesn't matter. Ivy bridge vs sandy bridge also just do not matter. Heat is heat. The best cooler will still be the best cooler.
To do the test in as pure of a way possible they should have just mounted the cooler not to a CPU but to a hot plate putting out a known amount of heat. The issue with that is both of these systems have a software controller so you do need to run them on a live system.
As to motherboards and clearances well there a lot of motherboards and cases, They can not check all of them. I would have liked to see them use a Corsair case for the Corsair coolers and an NZXT case for NZXT coolers.
Overall the way they did the tests were very good for the time and resources they have available. As to adding a GPU that would only be useful if they used the exact same case, card, and power supply you were going to use. Reply
jonjonjonj - Sunday, December 30, 2012 - linkIt's a CPU cooler why do people have to have a gpu to overclock to CPU. You do realize not everyone plays games and spends $200+ on a gpu. Also who cares what CPU he uses its an apples to apples comparison not a how to cool an sandy bridge article. Its not an installation article so who cares if he uses a smaller board which always it too fit. Do you really expect him to go through all thr case/motherboard comboss telling you what will and wont work? Again its an apples to apples review as long as they were all run in the same setup thats all that matters. somehow you dint understand this. You don't make 1 single good point. Reply
cactusdog - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkI've never been a fan of closed loop systems, mainly because the performance isnt any better than a highend air cooler, but it seems a little ridiculous to have such a big radiator and 2x 140mm fans to cool a modern CPU.
I could see a need for them in 2006 but not 2012. I have an air cooler with 1x120mm fan and I have silent performance at idle and at load, that with a 3770k @4.4ghz. I dont have to install software or set fan speeds. Once installed it takes care of itself. This cooler has been on 3 system upgrades, I just dont see the attraction, especially when it limits your choice of case. What reason is there for me to dump my aircooler for this huge radiator setup? Even with 2x120mm fans?
Its a lot of hardware just to cool a CPU, it seems less efficient and the performance isnt any better than a highend air cooler. With double the cooling area, these radiators should be performing at least 50% better than an air cooler, but we find they perform about the same as a aircooler with half the cooling area. it would have been nice to see a aircooler in the comparison btw.
It seems like efficiency is going backwards with these closed loop systems.
Death666Angel - Friday, December 28, 2012 - linkMaybe different people need different things? The big heatsinks that can compete with these watercoolers usually weigh a lot, restrict access to other components and stress the mounting system. Some also don't fit in all cases because of the width of the case being too shallow (my Scythe Mugen 2 did not fit without the sides of the case bulging out) or they don't fit with certain RAM modules or motherboard coolers.
Also, is your heatsink/fan really silent or just silent enough for you? How are the temperatures? Some people like having their CPU under 50°C, others are fine with 90°C. With a better heatsink, could you get higher clocks our of it? I know I could go from 3.3GHz (i7 860) to 3.8GHz stable with my watercooling setup (non-AIO).
Also, no one if forcing you to buy these coolers to replace yours....
And lastly, do you _know_ that these radiators are more surface than a high end aircooler? Because current day tower coolers that may use 2 140mm fans have a lot of surface and my guess is they are at least equal to these higher end watercoolers. Reply
HutchinsonJC - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkWhere is the original h100 on the graphs?
Why are there so many colors on the graphs? The legend shows a dark blue and a light blue, yet there is red, orange, and green in the charts with no seeming rhyme or reason. Reply
ypsylon - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkIt is the problem of all these AIO kits. Mixing aluminum radiator with copper block = degraded performance over time (it is just chemistry cold and unsympathetic). And it is impossible to replace radiator without voiding warranty. Also performance for the price is not exactly top notch. One of the reasons why custom (well big word as you can buy pre-prepared kits and mount everything in the box without any customization actually ;) ) loops more expensive. Copper is expensive and performance always cost. Of course there is 100% difference between H100i and cheapest 240 pre-prepared kit from example EK or XSPC. But over time performance and fully modular setup is well worth extra $$$. Simple as that.
As I see it, AIO have only one advantage over air cooling, and that is you don't need behemoths like Phantex/Noctua/Thermalright dual-tower coolers. All of them are extremely heavy, able to deform the board/cpu socket/ memory banks circuitry (like on s1366 which was fairly common) or break it completely. One of the areas where big is not exactly best. Reply
rrohbeck - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkI'd like to see some of the better air coolers on the chart. In the few tests that had both, the top end air coolers generally were in the vicinity of the H100. Reply
Hood6558 - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkVery good article, and highly relevant to those of us awaiting availability of the Krakens. Nice to see that they're apparently worth upgrading to, if only for 3 or 4 degrees at load, every little bit helps. Disappointed in the H100i numbers (I'm currently running an H100), how did they lose performance by going with bigger hoses, improved waterblock & pump, and supposedly better fans? Because in all previous reviews, the H100 was champ or at least in top 3. One Point to Corsair for more mature software. Now the big question is, do the NZXT offerings have more clearance issues due to their wider rads - the answer being "of course they do". My H100 in my Carbide 400R just barely clears the VRM heatsink with just 2 fans (I mounted the "pull" fans outside the case) and you have to remove fans to access the CPU fan headers. Of course, that's using the stock centered mounting holes - it's possible to mount the rad offset by lining up some of the holes in the honeycomb with mounting holes - not possible with 140mm rads. I'm pretty sure that in my case, it will hit the heatsinks unless I drill holes and mount as far to the left of center as possible. Reply
mayankleoboy1 - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkWhy not use a Ivy bridge CPU ? At 4.5 GHZ, and 1.3V, they get very hot very quickly. Reply
vanwazltoff - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linki would really like to see how these closed loops compare to the incoming cooler master eisberg Reply
jonyah - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkI think money is well spent on a closed loop water cooler. The less stress on the MB, great cooling performance (on par with equally priced heatsink/fans) and low noise level is definitely worth it. If you're putting in a $300+ cpu, it makes sense to take care of it. I've had the H60 for 12 months now and it has performed flawlessly. If you compare it's cooling to the stock cooler it came with (complete crap), it's incredible.
I think the article would be better served to include benchmarks of non-water coolers to show how great these really are. I was running in the 70+C range with the stock cooler while pushing it, and now can't push my chip above mid 40's. That alone will keep my chip lasting a lot longer (though I'm probably going to be upgrading it soon). Reply
A5 - Thursday, December 27, 2012 - linkStock coolers are garbage, everyone knows that. But a $70 air cooler would outperform the H60. Reply
vectorm12 - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkThanks for all your hard work Dustin.
As some have already pointed out there's little difference in performance of these coolers and the traditional Aircoolers. However what I&ve been dying to find out all this time is how much internal temps is reduced by the direct exhaust of these kits?
If they are efficient enough it should allow a case to support more TDP in the form of GPUs, Raid-controllers and HDDs. I've also always wondered what happens to the airflow around VRMs and DIMMs when the fan at the socket is transplated. Of course different cases will result in different results but it's still something I'd consider worth looking into.
In a future review I'd very much like to see some values relating to the temps of motherboard,DIMMs, VRMs and so on as well as the effects of transplanting the CPU-fan Reply
buhusky - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linki'm interested to see the comparison of these vs. the stock air cooler included with the processor. sure, i could go find it somewhere else, but it'd help make this a more complete review if it was all just here, imo Reply
Beenthere - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkUnless you have some space limitation preventing you from using a quality HSF, a Closed Loop Cooler is a poor choice and has the very real liability of a water leak damaging your hardware, data loss, RMAs, etc.
When you can buy a highend HSF for ~$60. that cools better, is quieter and never leaks water to damage your PC hardware, you'd be ignorant to buy a CLC which is inferior in every way as independent testing has confirmed.
The Xigmatek Aegir SD128264 double heat-pipe HSF is a perfect example of a very quiet, cost effective, HSF fully capable of cooling an AMD FX CPU OC'd to 4.8 GHz. without issue. There are other HSFs with dual fans that cost more but few perform better than the Aegir. Note that the Xigmatek Aegie and other HSFs cool better than the Corsair H100 and AMD CLC cooler both of which are inferior and can leak water.
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articlei... Reply
FriendlyUser - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkThanks for the review. It would be great to include the stock cooler and a good air cooler (Noctua, Thermalright or even the cheap CoolerMaster 212 EVO).
I'm tempted by closed-loop coolers, but I'm not sure the technology is yet mature. I think it's the future... Reply
etamin - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkI'd like to see a CM Hyper 212 thrown into the charts for some kind of air cooler reference. That would be a big help to determining value. Reply
cmdrdredd - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkAs was said it would be nice to have a really high end air cooler from Noctua like the NH-D14 in the charts for reference. I mean, the noctua can be found for around $80 and the mounting is solid (no plastic to strip although it is heavier so...). Is a $140 closed water system worth an extra $60? Reply
rrohbeck - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkThe NH-D14 is on sale for $69.99 AR today at Newegg. Reply
Spacecomber - Wednesday, December 26, 2012 - linkAre these kits strictly designed to be CPU coolers, or are they expandable to include GPU and maybe even MB chipset cooling, too?
Sorry if I missed the answer to this in quickly reading through the article. It seems like if you are going to switch over to a liquid cooling system, you'd also want it to include the GPU (at least this would be true for enthusiasts who also enjoy computer gaming).
If these are CPU only kits, I suppose they might find a place in a media player computer. Reply
A5 - Thursday, December 27, 2012 - linkThese kits are CPU only. You could probably hack a GPU block into one of the dual-length systems, but at that point you should just go full custom and get better performance. Reply
Foeketijn - Friday, December 28, 2012 - linkThere are simple mounting frames to screw the 2012 Antec and corsair blocks on any recent GPU. But from what I see in reality, most people use tie wraps ; ). IMHO these closed loop cooler are more suitable for GPU's since the radiator conducting properties (relatively thin and aluminum) are often the limiting factor (considering the results according to the tweakers who changed the radiator of these things). The efficiency goes up when you
1. Get more air in contact with the radiator (bigger radiator, better fan, a bit of spacing between the fan and the radiator to avoid airflowing "dead spots")
2. Get more heat from the water to the actual air (copper radiator, more fins etc.)
3. Get the temp delta bigger. (colder air or warmer water)
Cooling the GPU does number 3. Since modern GPU's can draw a lot more power than a CPU especially @stock and they function without a problem at much higher temps. Reply
Novuake - Thursday, December 27, 2012 - linkNo Static Pressure readings? Nothing about the pumps on these thinks? Thermal paste that come with them? Really... What is going on with Anandtech? MORE DATA! More effort into this PLEASE... Reply
A5 - Thursday, December 27, 2012 - linkIf you care about that stuff, you aren't going to buy a closed loop system. Reply
Novuake - Thursday, December 27, 2012 - linkThat is why I would like REAL data to compare with other cooling solutions... Otherwise whats the point of a comparison if I do not know how CLCs compare to a custom loop. Reply
jabber - Thursday, December 27, 2012 - link....I installed it as Corsair directed as an intake and it's still installed that way. However, I was concerned that as the PSU (Corsair HX750) was sat above it and blowing out warm air that we would end up with a cycling of warm air back into the case which wouldn't help.
I noticed that as my PC desk had a closed back that the air space behind the PC got warm. Warm air from the PSU was being drawn down so cool air wouldnt be going into the H50.
So I devised a simple solution of sticking a simple air dam about 3 inches deep along the full width and back of the case just below the PSU. The dam was angled at 45 degrees therefore, 'pushing' the warm air up and over and closing the space between the back of the desk and the PC.
This kept the air space below the PSU and right where the H50 intake was nice and cool. Reply
Treckin - Thursday, December 27, 2012 - linkWould be nice if you at least mentioned the Antec pieces which were even a little ahead of the Corsair pieces (Until the recent "i" series) .
Kulher 920? Reply
A5 - Thursday, December 27, 2012 - linkNot a 2013 model. The H80 is only here to provide reference to the most popular 2012 model, the rest is new for 2013. Reply
monsooni - Thursday, December 27, 2012 - linkI have been thinking about my case layout and air flow. I am using a Corsair 650D with the original H50 cooler. Since most "gamer" class video cards come close to closing off the air flow between the bottom of the case and the upper areas, it is possible that rotating the rear exhaust fan to become an intake, and using the top fan as the exhaust for the upper area, makes sense if you have a setup that closes off the bottom.
That type of setup would give the case "zones" that could be managed for noise and temp separately of each other, similar to rack mount servers. Reply
Shiitaki - Thursday, December 27, 2012 - linkIn reading some of the comments, I had some thoughts on water cooling. This review is a comparative review, useful if you are deciding between the reviewed units. It also indicates trends, and gives an idea of the benefit to the big radiators. With enough are flow, you won't need a big radiator, using a big radiator really lowers the required fan noise, not just cooling. Indeed, a modern processor doesn't NEED a big radiator. Water is good for cooling, you may have noticed that even Porsche uses water now. Water carries ten times the heat. I switched from air to water and lowered the temp by 8c not because the water cooler was getting rid of more heat, but because the heat was being carried away faster with water running through the water block than being carried up copper pipes. When it comes to cases, who cares? Unless the testing happens to be done in the case you have or will have, does it really matter? I agree with the critique that some details about the pumps would have been good. Water cooling can make for a very quite computer, unless there is pump noise and gurgling going on. The inability of the sound pressure meter to go below 30 db is also not great. I can assure you that Apple's sound meter goes lower, having spent some considerable time trying to match the silence of an iMac. A great review to see, I went with Zalman just prior to the review though. It has what I think is a goofy Asetek mounting and has some pump rattle. The rattle is quietter after a couple of days. When it comes to cases, their is little novelty or innovation. The Raven series is the rare diversion in the industry.
When I did a full fledged water cooling setup, cooling the video card was a huge difference, much more so than the cpu. Water cooling is what Nvidia should be using for their high end cards. There's an idea for Zalman, a closed loop system with a universal mounting for video cards. Reply
dusk007 - Thursday, December 27, 2012 - linkWhy a water cooling solution just for the CPU. They are big and expensive and CPUs are in almost any case (that you can fit one of these) easy to cool. The only point I see for water cooling is when one has a workstation with two sockets or some GPUs to cool but such a single CPU closed All-In-One solution is useless there.
Is there really a market for nerds who only want an overclocked CPU and don't care about nothing else. A Gamer would want to cool the GPUs more as they matter and somebody that needs number crunching power will get more out of a two socket workstation than overclocking.
Why aren't there any decent tests of Sets for actual water cooling that can incorporate 1-2 GPUs and not only the CPU which has more than enough space for a huge tower cooler anyway (and those work fine)? Reply
Treckin - Thursday, December 27, 2012 - linkThe Antec closed loop systems had the integrated USB interface far before Corsair, Im not sure why they arn't mentioned here. Also, I believe they are made by Asetek and judging by the look of the software in the NZXT, it looks like a bad reskin
Not very thourough if you ask me Reply
darkfalz - Thursday, December 27, 2012 - linkWould have been a good inclusion for comparison... Reply
schulmaster - Friday, December 28, 2012 - linkThe most aberrant result of this review, at least in my opinion, is how the H80 and H100 compare. Presumably similar 120mm Fans, but differing by a significant factor in cooling area, the H100 should not be performing at H80 levels under load, let alone below.
Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8HsjgtMzEg
Linus runs a test series, with the variable of 120mm Fan quality removed, using top-of-the -line cooling on all contenders; and the h100 unsurprisingly performs 15+ degrees better than the H80 under OC load. I don't know wherein the testing parameters, on either side, emerged the resulting discrepancy of this magnitude. However, I would diversify the bonds of my research before discounting the H100 as a pragmatic enthusiast cooling solution. Perhaps Linus' using of a real- world-esque environment, ie only average cable management in a closed chassis contributed? Reply
Foeketijn - Friday, December 28, 2012 - linkFor all the people who may be too enthusiastic about high end air coolers.
These things are harder to compare than you might think, in all the reviews I've seen it's all about the temp delta /Noise ratio. Funny thing is, a watercooler throws it's heat right out your case while a lot of warmth of your air cooler is circulated back to cool your heat-generator with preheated air. That's probably why almost every watercooler review has some comment about "why you should go for an similarly priced air cooler" and that being followed up by an actual owner of an watercooler (probably "closed loop" since the few DIY watercooler owners really understand the amount variables in hand) countering with his or her trial and having much better real life results.
A disadvantage is that the radiator blocks the airflow. So without the different fan in the equation there is less air going through your case. How much this shall impact the performance is strongly dependent on how much heat is being blocked (or how much heat is being produced not including the CPU and how much airflow is left)
Bottom line, comparing an watercooler (an air cooler with water as an heat transporting medium ; ) ) with an air cooler is almost impossible without testing several case builds and probably a really vague conclusion.
That being said, this is the right website for such an endeavor! An while I'm at it, I support the comments about missing some feedback about rotor noise and the 30 db floorlevel of the sound-o-meter. Great review tho, when you want to decide which CLWC to buy. Reply
Khenglish - Friday, December 28, 2012 - linkWhat were the fan speeds with the thicker radiators? The 38mm rads will need either push-pull or have high rpm fans to push the air through.
I would have liked to have seen performance with the IHS removed. Someone who decides to go with a water cooling setup is more likely to remove the IHS. It's well known that IVB has CPU die - IHS connection issues, and the variance between IHS quality among IVB's makes it difficult for people to compare their results to yours. Even with a good IHS, removing it still makes a big difference. The thermal resistance drop makes a big difference, especially when pushing the voltage and clocks. I lost ~5C when I removed the IHS from my 580 (1.25V). An IVB's gains should be even larger.
Your results are pretty terrible for liquid cooling setups, and it would be nice to know how much of that was due to the IHS, or if these liquid cooling setups just aren't very good. Reply
riottime - Saturday, December 29, 2012 - linki had placed 2 orders for the corsair h55 on newegg when this article appeared. :)
they just arrived yesterday. i put one on my tuban 1090t amd system (stock speed) and i5 3550 intel system (also stock speed). i got them mainly to reduce the system noise not to overclock my processors with. so far they're doing just that i'm happy to report. :P
the manual/instruction that comes with it is atrocious. i recommend going on youtube and search for 'corsair h55 install' before you start installing it on your system. Reply
TekDemon - Sunday, December 30, 2012 - linkI think you guys might have to check the mounting and test again because the H80i definitely shouldn't be outperforming the H100i assuming the H100i isn't defective. I mean, your own H100 vs H80 review has the H100 clearly winning and they're the same coolers minus the link.
I honestly would suggest double checking your mounting and testing with a higher heat load since a i7 @ 4.4Ghz and 1.4V hardly really shows the benefits of an H100. I would point out that in your previous review the CPU was clocked at 4.8Ghz. If the H80i still manages to beat the H100i then either Corsair has upgraded the fan setup on the H80i such that the push-pull is managing to beat out the H100's stock 2 fan configuration or there's just something wrong with your H100i.
I would also point out that the H100i can be upgraded to a 4-fan configuration while the H80i is maxed out in it's stock configuration, I have an internally mounted H100 (non-i) with 4 fans on it and it's probably about as high performing as you can get with an all internal compact setup. Reply
Reservoir_Dog - Sunday, January 20, 2013 - linkCannot understand the temp results, i mean, whats, 4.5 under load?
4.5 deg celcius??
With the H80i and a 2600K @ 4.2 ghz i get 60 deg celcius with the same test
So is it too hot then? Reply
chesbrougha - Thursday, March 07, 2013 - linkI have an X40 and it is not cutting it with a 3930k. I am thinking that it might be because I can't figure out how to change the profile as there is no mac software (install windows then change back to mac??). Anyone have any ideas?
I am thinking about changing to the H100i but think I will run into the same issues Reply
soulcipher - Tuesday, September 30, 2014 - linkApologies for digging up an old thread, however I joined as I wanted to share my experience with the product and the company. I'll be blunt and to the point. I am using NZXT X40.
The company lie about case compatibility. Their head of Tech Support has stated in an email to me they do not test these on any cases but their own. This makes their compatibility list totally false as I found out a few months ago. I am using an X40.
I have a Corsair Carbide 500R and their compat guide states rear placement. Their head of tech stated in an email to me he had the case in front of him, and it fits fine. It took me sending him a video and photos to admit he had 'got it wrong' and that it doesnt fit. They have offered no compensation, and advised me to chop my case up to make it fit. I based my purchase of my current case on the statements NZXT made regarding the compatibility. When I first got it, I assumed I was doing something wrong and dumped it elsewhere in the case. However for top placement, it doesn't provide effective enough cooling, it needs rear placement with ideally, a push/pull config, so when I went back and revisited this notion, I contacted NZXT regarding to see what was going on.
Disgusting customer service, and would most definitely never buy NZXT products again. For anyone saying i'm lying, i'll happily disclose the emails. The product works, its quiet and does an ok job at keeping the CPU cool, but they have lied about it being compatible and offer nothing to compensate for making people out of pocket from their false guidance. Reply


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Overclocking Buyer's Guide - September 2004by Wesley Fink on 9/17/2004 12:05 AM EST
- Posted in
- Guides
31 Comments
Back to Article
jeeptrkr - Friday, December 10, 2004 - linkPerfect timing and very infomative article. I'm looking to buy a MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum w/ an AMD 64 FX-55 cpu.
How would Crucial Ballistix PC4000 2.5-4-4-8 compare to PC3200 2-2-2-5 on the MSI mb? Faster bandwidth ver tighter timings? Reply
decptt - Thursday, September 30, 2004 - linkThank you, Fink.
I ran Athlon64 Mobile 3200 email@example.com Vcore 1.8
I will drop to 10x250 vcore1.7 for safer :>
Ballistix run@ 1:1 2.5-4-4-8 (I don't want to set 2.5-3-3-5 like the review for make sure that it works fine)
I'll tell the testing result again.
P.S. I had reached to 10x260 V1.8, windows works but Prime95 doens't work stable. Reply
southernpac - Sunday, September 19, 2004 - linkWesley,
If Raid 1 is used (mirrowing), is the slow down negligble for a simulations gamer - or would it be noticable? Would the same be the case with 7,200 rpm SATA's?
I also notice that you listed the eVGA 6800, but the July High-End Guide listed the Gigabyte 6800 (Ultra). Have you noticed performance or manufacturing differences between the 6800 vendors?
The photo of the Crucial Ballistik PC3200 512 memory has a CL113V.X1 part number on it. I can't find that part number listed on the Crucial web site. ? Bill Mackay Reply
thebluesgnr - Saturday, September 18, 2004 - linkThis is one interesting article, but I wish it had the same idea of a "Value" system as other AT articles. The Value system of this guide is too much for me, here's what I came up with:
AMD Athlon XP Mobile 2400+ 45W $77
ASRock K7V88 Raid $44
512MB (1 X 512MB) Corsair Value Select DDR400 CAS2.5 $79
128MB GeCube Radeon 9550XT $99
Antec SLK3700-BQE Black ATX Midtower w/ 350W PSU $90
Seagate 80GB 7200RPM SATA (8Mb Cache) – ST380013AS $71
HSF not included, total of $460.
One could change that system to a Chaintech VNF3-250 + Sempron 3100+, but I would rather upgrade the video card first.
PrinceGaz - Saturday, September 18, 2004 - link#25 Wesley Fink- its great to hear a Value RAM roundup is being planned, listening to and where necessary addressing your readers comments is one of the main reasons AT is such a valuable website. Reply
Gholam - Saturday, September 18, 2004 - linkYou have a mistake on page 13 - you list CM Stacker as an all-aluminium case, while it definitely isn't. It has aluminium panels, but the chassis frame is made of steel. It also weighs 14.9kg... ouch. On the other hand, there is no other case where ducting the PSU is as easy... Reply
Wesley Fink - Saturday, September 18, 2004 - link#24 - I mentioned in the Value conclusion that you can cut $300 by choosing a cheaper case and an ATI 9800 PRO instead. Perhaps I should make those recommendations part of the Value OC chart in the future.
#22 - I recommended one 512MB stick of Crucial Ballistix to get the cost down on the lowest priced system and still have great overclocking. We do plan a Value RAM roundup in the future. Reply
cnq - Saturday, September 18, 2004 - linkWesley,
Keep up the good work!
Only nit is that like last time, you "forgot" (maybe it was intentional) to present a value video card. The price of the video card stuck out like a sore thumb in the summary pricing table for the value system!
The power requirements are ugly, but consider putting the 9800pro in the summary table for the value system next time. Until the X700XT and 6600GT's come out (and in AGP), you can't do better for $190. [Or at least you could have downshifted from a 6800GT to a 6800 to save a hundred bucks on the value system.]
ksherman - Friday, September 17, 2004 - linkyou know what would kick arse? doing comparison tests! Compare all the different rigs you guys reccomend and see who the winners are. i.e. Performance OC vs your high end setup etc. Reply
PrinceGaz - Friday, September 17, 2004 - linkI really don't know why anyone here is so keen on the Sempron 3100+. You'd be a fool to buy one when the A64 2800+ is available at only a slightly higher cost, has twice the L2 cache, and most importantly 64-bit support. Anyone who buys a Sempron 3100+ today will regret it in a year or two when x86-64 Windows is supported.
If you only keep a CPU for a year or so though, it makes even less sense getting something like the Sempron 3100+ with hopes of high overclocks unless you like always having an overclocked substandard processor.
The non-high end memory issue is important and really needs to be covered, CAS 2.5 modules form the likes of Corsair are available at very competitive prices compared to CAS 2 modules. We need an article that looks at CAS 2.5 and also CAS 3 PC3200 modules from the major manufacturers so we can see how far they overclock, and at what voltages and timings. Most people don't buy CAS2 modules unless they're getting a top of the range CPU (2.4 GHz A64 or 3.2+ GHz Prescott), so if you look at an A64 3200+, you need to look at the memory most people will use with it. Reply
MemberSince97 - Friday, September 17, 2004 - link^^GJ^^ WF... Reply
Wesley Fink - Friday, September 17, 2004 - link#10 - I just checked the ORB for 3DMark2001SE and the highest placing Intel was #10 - the 9 top scores were AMD. 2001SE IS sensitive to CPU speed and memory speed and is useful for comparing CPU's.
3DMark2003 is not very sensitive to CPU and Memory, so it is excellent for testing pure video performance. Intel does lead in many of the top ten 3DMark2003 scores, but that is a result of Video card performance since 03 is very video centric. Consider the leads there the result of Intel's chipset prowess in graphics support. Looking at the top 20 it is like 50/50 AMD/Intel in 03.
#17 - The DFI is already for sale in the US. The problem is it is selling out very quickly. Additional production is on it's way to resellers, and DFI is gearing up more production for October. Reply
gnumantsc - Friday, September 17, 2004 - linkJust a little typo in regards to 2 x 74GB Western Digital 74GB Raptor 10,000RPM SATA RAID (148MB Total) Should be 148GB not MB.
Unless there is a raid system to make your 2 HDs 1000 times smaller :) Reply
helopilot - Friday, September 17, 2004 - linkWesley: What an *excellent*, well written article! Full of very
useful info, specs, opinions and lots of general observations and
tips. I think this is one of the best pieces I've read on a
hardware review site. You must have invested considerable time on
this article!
I especially appreciate the level of detail you've incorporated and
the tables, diagrams, graphics etc. that really help to get the
information across to the reader. You deserve high praise indeed
for this level of tech writing.
Keep up the Good Work!
PolaroidPaul - Friday, September 17, 2004 - linkGreat review but one issue that bugs me. I am looking into building a value OC system and it sure seems like the DFI board is a good one. Unfortunately, it is practically vapor ware at the present time.
Maybe parts that are not readily available should not be on the recommended list. I hate having to wait for parts to show up in distribution while every article tells me how good the sample was. Tell me about what is comming but don't put it on the list if it does not show up as availalbe on your real time pricing list.
Just my humble opinion! Reply
Illissius - Friday, September 17, 2004 - linkI will repeat the stuff about the value RAM. You say yourself that the A64 isn't as sensitive to memory bandwidth, and the doubling of it with socket 939 only results in 2-9% performance gains. 'Enthusiast' memory is a lot less than twice as fast, so you can extrapolate how much extra performance that would gain, and it makes little sense to spend double on it when that money would be much better spent on a faster processor or video card*.
Actually, you should just split the memory into Performance and Value, same as with the processor. Ballistix and EB for Performance, and standard value RAM from someone reputable (eg Corsair Value Select) for the Value. Hell, why not seperate /every/ component into Performance and Value? 9800Pro/6600GT and 6800GT for the video card, WD Raptor and random 120-200GB drives, and so on.
...I'm starting to think that the best thing to do would be to just flat out split the Performance and Value into seperate buyer's guides. They're at least as different as the mid- and high end guides are.
One more thing, and then I'll stop - the HSF has much more significance in the overclocking equation than you seem to be attributing it. You don't need to give it a seperate section, just mentioning a list of the better choices would be nice (afaik, Zalman CNPS7000A-(Al)Cu, Thermalright SLK-947/8U, SP-94/7/8, and XP-90/120, and possibly others), because for the person just getting into the whole overclocking thing, they may not know ;).
* Contrary to a common misconception, you don't need faster memory to overclock the processor. Most boards can lock the memory at stock speeds, or otherwise can use a 5:4 ratio or something. Reply
iversonyin - Friday, September 17, 2004 - linki would fork out a little more for 2800+ athlon 64 then usin the sempron
hes right on the money $20 more, u r better off with 2800+ 64 then sempron Reply
thebluesgnr - Friday, September 17, 2004 - link#13,
it's actually:
No 9200 in PCIe. Reply
DEMO24 - Friday, September 17, 2004 - linkThis is to poster #2. You CAN buy a x300 or x600. its called the 9200 for a x300 and a 9600 for the x600. Theres nothing speical to the x cards below the x800 cuase they are all jsut old cards made to fit PCI-e. A good way for ATI to make money and look good. Reply
ksherman - Friday, September 17, 2004 - linkYippie! someone finally OCed a Sempron! Ive been wondering how well those cheapos would do... Sounds amazing! Reply
whitelight - Friday, September 17, 2004 - linkFor ram, look into PQI's 2-2-2-5 (2x512mb) solution. It overclocks really well with relatively tight timings and has samsung's tccd chips. It's also cheaper than other solutions ($250) Reply
axel - Friday, September 17, 2004 - linkHi, very interesting article indeed.
The only thing I do not really understand, and rather see as an error is the following:
You say that almost every top overclockers i.e. in the futuremark 3dmarks ORB database are on AMD platforms. Though, except if I'm not looking at the right place, if I'm taking into account the 5 best scores, I see that 4 of them are running Pentium4 platforms, and only one is an AMD (which is actually on the 4th position of the top-5). Reply
AlphaFox - Friday, September 17, 2004 - linkId like to see how the XP stacks up against the 64 when overclocked.. I have a XP mobile 2600 and am running it at 2.46Ghz and everything I throw at it runs as smooth as silk.. I dont see a need to upgrade unless there was something I couldnt run, or run smooth. Reply
eetnoyer - Friday, September 17, 2004 - linkAny chance you've tested the limits of the ballistix RAM on the DFI. If so, how high did it reach? Reply
Nickel020 - Friday, September 17, 2004 - linkNice article, but there is a mistake on page 5 (CPU and Motherboard: VALUE OC Recommendations):
The heatsinks listed (XP-90 & 120) are made by Thermalright, not Thermaltake. Reply
Shinei - Friday, September 17, 2004 - linkNice article, though I'm curious to see how the 3200-M64 performs compared to the Clawhammer and Newcastle desktop cores. I know the Newcastle revisions have an upgraded memory controller, or something like that; does the 3200-M64 have the same upgrades, or is it based on the older Clawhammer revision?
And why the choice of OCZ's PowerStream? Antec puts out a 550w that's just as reliable as the 480w you suggested as an alternative... Unless I missed a review that pointed out the OCZ to be more robust than the Antec supply. Reply
qquizz - Friday, September 17, 2004 - linkThis is my type of review. I can't have too many of them. I do agree with slashbinslashbash about some guidance on value oriented RAM. The price differences between 2-2-2-5 memory and say 2.5-x-x-x value memory is rather drastic. But if none of it will o/c then so be it. Reply
slashbinslashbash - Friday, September 17, 2004 - link#2: Under the Value OC Alternative system Wesley writes "Buy an ATI 9800 PRO for $200 less and overclock the heck out of it." So it looks like you were right on the money ;) Personally I'm looking at a 9600XT All-In-Wonder as it's about the same price at Newegg; less performance in games (still reasonable framerates in Doom3) but with the ever-so-cool All-In-Wonder functionality added. Reply
slashbinslashbash - Friday, September 17, 2004 - linkGreat guide. The only thing that I'd ask you to do differently (or rather, to add next time) is to make a "value" recommendation for the RAM. Nowadays I won't use any less than a gig of RAM, but I think it's silly to pay substantially more for RAM than for the CPU. Even just one stick of 512MB in the Value Alternative system costs more than the CPU.
I'd like to know some "value" RAM alternatives that might not have such aggressive latency timings but will still keep up with the mobo and CPU, if it's possible. I know you guys can't test every cheapo stick of RAM out there, but... any sort of guidance would be appreciated. All the big brands offer "Value" RAM. Will none of it overclock? Is the performance from the recommended $280 (for 1GB) RAM actually worth the $120 premium it commands over, say, two $80 sticks of Corsair Value Select (on front page of ZipZoomFly)? Would that $120 be better spent on the CPU? It's more than the difference between the Sempron 3100+ and the "Value Recommended" system's A64 3200+.. and it nearly covers the upgrade to both the CPU and motherboard.
Also, two errors: 1) the eVGA 6800GT is listed as $389 under the Value Alternative system but at $383 under the Value Recommended system; 2) the Value Recommended system sums to $1440, not $1460.
Again, great guide, it's probably what I'll be looking at when I decide on my next system. Reply
decptt - Friday, September 17, 2004 - linkFor AGP VGA, do you have a value altervative for limited budget not playing doom3?
For me, 6800 is too powerful to run multimedia and encoding DivX.
Do you think 9800Pro can be runner up?
Anyone knows about when ATI X series for AGP (X300, X600) will be coming? or ONLY PCI Express :'(
Avalon - Friday, September 17, 2004 - linkI like the inclusion of value OC recommendations in this guide. The biggest gripe I had about previous guides were that they only recommended what you find in this guide's performance recommendations. Some overclockers do it for the bragging rights, others do it to save money and get themselves a more powerful system at the same time. Nice work. Reply


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The HTC Droid DNA Announced: 5-inch, 1080p, S4 Proby Jason Inofuentes on 11/13/2012 6:34 AM EST
- Posted in
- Smartphones
- Mobile
- droid dna
31 Comments
Back to Article
jjj - Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - linkAgain no microSD and the HTC J Butterfly has one,HTC is starting to just be annoying. Reply
deputc26 - Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - linkno sd card and 16gb? almost as big a shame as nexus 4. I blame goog for booting sd cards. Reply
piroroadkill - Friday, November 16, 2012 - linkYep. Completely agreed. No MicroSD and such needlessly small battery = fail. What the hell? Reply
Death666Angel - Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - linkThe Note 2 should have launched at that resolution. :) Looking forward to the test. Will there be an international version of this? Reply
cigar3tte - Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - link2030mAh battery for a 5" 1080p device? And you can't replace it. Not going to work. Reply
abhicherath - Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - linkNow if only bigger laptops also started following this trend...
On another note, I wonder how my 1080p wallpapers will look on that beast,hmm. Reply
alfreddelacruz - Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - linkHoping this comes to ATT in some variant soon. Wish it had a better battery like 2200mAH at least and a microSD slot. I like the built in headphone amp very cool. I use the Filo amp coming out of my One X and it sounds great, but without the amp it sounds very good anyway. Reply
karasaj - Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - linkThis could be a great phone if the battery doesn't end up being terrible. I don't see how they're going to manage it, but that's the one thing that could be the downfall of this phone. Otherwise, everything is pretty perfect. (minus wanting a 4.5 inch flagship android - does anybody know of one? I can't seem to find anything under 4.7) Reply
karasaj - Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - linkOh, for Verizon. The LG Optimus G might have been nice but it doesn't seem like they're covering it. Reply
extide - Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - linkYeah because that makes sense. PLEASE MANUFACTURERS KILL OFF 1366x768! Reply
Super56K - Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - linkYou can get 1080p if you're willing to spend more than $600, probably closer to $700 or more depending on the rest of the specs. Or, don't get hosed on the upgrade premium and replace the screen yourself if you're a DIY type. That price, coincidentally, is in the ballpark of what a high end phone like that HTC costs unsubsudized.
All that said I agree whole-heartedly with your sentiment. 1366x768 is awful to look at on a 15" laptop. Compounding it is the trend to use the worst quality screens imaginable. I know because I put up with it for months and months until I bought a 1080p replacement screen. My lesson was learned. Reply
tipoo - Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - linkIt makes sense from a manufacturing cost point of view, even with much higher PPIs small screens are cheaper to produce, similar to smaller CPUs. Reply
blackbrrd - Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - linkA 15" at 1366x768 or 1920x1080 is ... exactly the same size and probably the same amount of materials. As we can see, it's obviously not hard to get higher ppi, since they have 3-4x the ppi on this 5" screen. Reply
Peskarik - Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - linkWow, 5 inch 1080p screen! Wow! Wow!
And what is the point of this?
And in traditional HTC fashion - no card slot and subpar battery. Reply
tipoo - Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - linkAre the differences anything more than paper specs now? Reply
Impulses - Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - linkI imagine Verizon passed on a One variant in order to score this? I love my EVO LTE's display, but I'm not sure I'd ever wanna go any larger... In fact, given the option of a 16:9 720p 4.3" I'd probably opt for a slight downsize. 5" & 1080p seems like total overkill, specially without any extra functionality like the Note.
Wonder who makes the display though and why Samsung wasn't able to source it for the Note 2... I guess they'll probably sell a lot more Note 2's worldwide so logistics might've been the issue.
The headphone amp part is curious, the S4 One/EVO phones are already amongst the best sounding out there (though apparently the Tegra 3 versions are pretty mediocre)... At the very least it should be a better step than gimmicks like the Beats EQ. Reply
Johnmcl7 - Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - linkI can see a lot of reasons for not choosing it for the Note 2, to make use of it needs a beefier GPU and in turn more power as well as the screen itself possibly using more power, on the Note power consumption is already an issue.
More simply though I have to wonder if it's worth having such an ultra high resolution display? I've always been a fan of high resolution displays but they seem to be getting into more of a spec war, 1080p seems great on an 11in screen and I've been happy with 1280x720 on the Note 1, I can't see the big jump in resolution being that much of an advantage.
John Reply
sharath.naik - Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - linkIt would make sense for me. I have been looking for a pocketable device to read PDF documents in portrait mode. I have tried it in note 2 and you cannot, as 720 PX width smudges the fonts,which at that size is unreadable, same for websites. If I have to go to landscape mode to be able to read these pages, why would I need a 5 inch phone when a 4.5 inch phone would be sufficient. So if a phone is 5 inchs or more it has got to have at least a 1000px across the shorter side.
Same applies to any tablets. Reply
agent2099 - Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - linkrelease date? Reply
EnsilZah - Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - linkA 5" phone has more resolution than my 22" monitor, great, thank you monitor manufacturers. Reply
KITH - Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - linkYet your monitor still works just fine for you, I'm sure.
If you paid for your monitor what this phone actually costs, you would get the higher resolution too. Reply
Impulses - Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - linkNot really, if you pay $500 for a display you might get a very nice 1920x1200 24" IPS but relative dpi still blows compared to this phone. The problem's twofold tho, little demand for better desktop displays (since the desktop is more of a niche every year: and software needs to be improved and optimized with better dpi scaling in mind. Reply
twtech - Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - linkIf it had 3k mAh, I'd seriously consider it. With 2k mAh, it looks nice, but half the time you'll be carrying around a paperweight rather than a phone. Reply
pukemon1976 - Tuesday, November 13, 2012 - linkwith 1080p resolution. lmao at how seriously corporation take it consumers for granted as being stupid and yet the stupid people go ahead and buy this shit. Reply
Mugur - Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - linkI agree on principle but not everybody is watching 8GB 1080p mkvs on the phone.
Also I suppose that 1080p is the "ultimate" goal for the manufacturers and they will stay a while at that resolution, considered today the de facto standard along with the dreadful 1366 x 768. I wouldn't mind to have all my devices (from 4" to 24") at 1080p, until 4k will be on larger screens... Reply
Mugur - Wednesday, November 14, 2012 - linkI meant the phone manufacturers, of course. Reply
Arbie - Thursday, November 15, 2012 - link
No micro-SD card AND an unreplaceable battery means I won't buy it.
Great display, great audio - and then they leave out a key piece of the media interface. Is there some conspiracy of stupidity in the smartphone makers these days? Anything positioned to be more than a basic phone needs a good way to swap files in and out. That's exactly what micro-SD provides.
It's one thing for a company to omit SD precisely because they want to lock you into their media services. But it makes no sense for HTC / Verizon.
And the unreplaceable battery... In my limited experience these things only last about two years. What are you supposed to do then? Throw the phone away? As with the SD, I'd rather pay more and get the essentials. What can these two things add? $50? Gladly. Reply
seapeople - Saturday, November 17, 2012 - linkThis phone is going to be worthless in a year when 4k resolutions become mainstream. What's the point of getting a phone like this now when you won't be able to watch Avatar 3D at 4K resolution on it? Reply
zappb - Sunday, November 18, 2012 - linkYea I hear HTC will release a 4k phone in 2 weeks, called the HTC DREAMON, so I'll pass this 1080p fad as well. Reply
MichaelEvans - Monday, December 24, 2012 - linkGreat review. I'm torn between this phone and the Samsung Galaxy SIII. I'm on contract with AT&T (like the 4GLTE) and my next phone is a toss-up since it seems to have a wide selection. I have a graphics design firm in New York and my smartphone is becoming like a third arm since the data speeds are so good. Reply
Amit kumar - Thursday, March 28, 2013 - linkI have to agree on your review. It's unmistakably a premium product by HTC. I saw fairly a few respectable features in this website as well. http://www.gadtecho.com/ Reply


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