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AMD's Radeon HD 5770 & 5750: DirectX 11 for the Mainstream Crowdby Ryan Smith on 10/13/2009 12:00 AM EST
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papapapapapapapababy - Saturday, October 17, 2009 - linkhttp://ht4u.net/reviews/2009/amd_ati_radeon_hd_570...">http://ht4u.net/reviews/2009/amd_ati_radeon_hd_570...
use babel Reply
Zool - Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - linkThe 5700 series have the same improved adaptive antialiasing with shaders like the 5800 series ?
There could be a antialiasing graph with diferent resoutions and antialiasing types for each card in reviews. Reply
RDaneel - Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - linkI may be in the minority, but I've already ordered a 5750. For a SOHO box used for only occasional gaming, it was the most future-proofed option (DX11) that also has low enough idle draw that it actually will save me enough money over the life of the card to justify any price difference with a 48xx card. Would I have loved 10% more performance, sure, but this isn't a bad blend of efficiency and longevity. Reply
yacoub - Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - linkimho, it's perfect for that situation.
Those of us who have a gaming PC with a DX10 card in it are the ones who find this 5700 series less than stellar. Reply
ET - Thursday, October 15, 2009 - linkBut those of us that have a mid-range PC with yesteryear's DX10 card (3870) find it appealing. :) Reply
SantaAna12 - Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - linkare you filtering out comments these days? Reply
SantaAna12 - Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - linkwhat up AT?
ive been lookin at your recent AMD rants, and its getting tiresome. They paying u the big bucks these days? when you only compare AMD cards against AMD cards you are doing your site a disservice. When you show CF but no SLI you are showing me a new AT.
I have expected more in the past. You goin the route of TOMS?
Ryan Smith - Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - linkAs we noted in the article, the CF configuration is mostly for academic reasons. I don't seriously expect anyone to pick it over a single card.
Anyhow, what would you like to see? I have the SLI data for the 275 and the 285, but since we've already established that the 260C216 is faster than the 5770, it won't really tell you anything useful. Reply
just4U - Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - link"NVIDIA would need to shave the price down to justify its purchase once more (something they have not done on the GTX series in response to the 5870 and 5850)."
I'd like to comment on this for just a moment. Where I live we haven't seen much stock on the new dx11 cards yet.. however, Suddenly there's a slew of highly priced 295's and other top end Nvidia products that these stores were not stocking.
My bet is that .. people walking in and making a purchase find out that they can't get that coveted new DX11 card so they opt out for one of those. So in a sense Nvidia would be riding on the coattails of Ati's new popular line that .. just doesn't have the availability. They haven't had to lower prices yet because they may be benifiting by the lack of stocked cards.
Make sense?
Ananke - Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - linkNo, it doesn't make sense :)
Why would you spent 3-400 for something that you don't want at first place? Why just not keep your money until you actually can buy what you want? We are not talking about 10 bucks, it is way bigger chunk... Reply
7Enigma - Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - linkBecause people are impatient and need instant gratification. This happens everywhere... Reply
erple2 - Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - linkThat, and people walking into stores to buy computer equipment aren't generally looking for the best deal. Reply
Ananke - Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - linkI respect the MONEY :). Wasting money for something that doesn't quite fit my intention is not my way. But, people are different, I guess not everybody would do the same...My point is, better pay and get what you exactly want and need, otherwise later you'll regret. Now, if you have so much money to waste, buy anything :) that's different story.
5770 with that anemic 128bit bus is worth less than $100, in my opinion. Above $100 it is just wasting money for getting nothing :) Reply
just4U - Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - linkThing is, people shopping for a new card probably do not have one of the latter cards.. or what they do have is fairly sub par. While they may have a good idea what they'd like to get...
... alot of times you see them settle. Hell even those among us who are tech savvy have done that from time to time. Seems to me that's sort of what Nvidia's doing right now. Reply
Hrel - Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - linkI need a new card, I want it to be DX11, but the performance isn't there. I want something about 10 percent faster than a 1GB 4870 for about 150 bucks, and something about 10 percent faster than a 4890 for less than 200 bucks; with DX11. Once I see a card like that, from AMD or Nvidia; I'll buy it. Stupid X1650Pro is REALLY limping along in modern games and I'm starting to get sick of low res and min settings. Reply
Ananke - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkReally good cards.....not worth the money though :)
Did I just summarized it well ? Reply
snarfbot - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkit would be nice to see some benches with crysis w/o aa.
if they really are bandwidth limited that would make the difference.
also overclocked performance, if the memory is the limiting factor then the 5750 would probably be a pretty good bang for the buck. Reply
Leyawiin - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkThe HD 5850 was "wow". The HD 5770 is a little "meh". Its great you have something that sits between the HD 4850 and HD 4870 in performance with such low power requirements and noise, but that price has to come down. Reply
silverblue - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkI view the 5770 as a natural successor to the 4770/4830/4850 (so I wouldn't expect a 5830 to appear, for example) as opposed to a replacement for the 4870. By now I'd expect 40nm yields to be much better than a few months back when TSMC had issues producing the RV740 variants so hopefully any dies that are defective are only minimally so and ATI can put them on the 5750 cards. Makes me wonder about the lower-range cards due next year though.
The Eyefinity ports are an enigma, however it could make for a very nice business class card assuming anyone can afford those dongles. Reply
CarrellK - Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - linkIf you are building an Eyefinity (EF) setup, you prolly don't have three monitors. You prolly have one or two. This means you will be buying at least one monitor. My advice: buy a DP monitor that matches the physical size & resolution of your existing monitors. That way you don't need to get an adapter.
CarrellK Reply
silverblue - Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - linkWith any luck they'll become plentiful in a short space of time, offering early adopters the chance to set up a decent EF, umm, setup.
If you think the typical EF setup will be two or three monitors, do you expect the full six monitor glory with an X2 part? I'm still wondering if even the 5870 can handle three monitors and still offer smooth gaming performance. That said, despite their power they're not going to strictly be gaming cards. Reply
papapapapapapapababy - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkthe fact that this cards consume little power is irrelevant when you have that great efficiency on the 5800... also including the Eyefinity gimmick here is a mistake, it only diminishes the value of that feature on the 5800. It should have been 1 card. HD 5770:
no Eyefinity, 800 SP, 750MHz, 512MB = $99 USD
CarrellK - Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - linkEyefinity (EF) will be in all 5xxx products for a multiplicity of useful reasons, many of which aren't apparent yet. There will be frequent roll-outs of new EF goodness. There will be many, many customers who will find EF very useful. Hopefully you will realize what EF can do for you and buy one of our products. We'd like for you to be a happy customer of ours.
yacoub - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - link" It should have been 1 card. HD 5770:
no Eyefinity, 800 SP, 750MHz, 512MB = $99 USD "
Close, but no. 1GB of VRAM is mandatory anymore, and it needs the 256-bit bus or more texturing units and ROPs. And then it could be $125. Reply
yacoub - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkSomething's wrong when two of these in CrossFire can't match a single 5850. Blah. Reply
qwertymac93 - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkwhy no mention of 4770? i know its older and slower, but its also 40nm like the 5750 and is the same price, it would be nice to see the difference between the two as they are specked quite closely(640sp@750mhz, 720sp@700mhz, both 128bit gddr5) Reply
snarfbot - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linklegion hardware has a good review comparing them both.
the 5750 is between 1-3 fps faster.
the 5750 has better overclocking potential thanks to the ram i guess, but im not sure if its worth the extra 25 bucks.
kinda a wait and see thing for this part Reply
Seramics - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkYet another good reviews from AT, thanks Ryan. However, it becomes clear cards like HD5870 and HD5770 isnt a very good performer for its price. HD5850 and HD5750 512MB repeesents a more solid bang for bucks. Again its very amazing that AMD has been able to bring us so many next gen DX11 cards when Windows 7 isnt even launched yet and their competitor is being super slow by onli recently releasing a non high end part of G200 derivatives. That being said, from the point of view of solely performance, Cypress and Juniper is kinda a disappointing performer for its price, as well as for its specifications. Reply
pullmyfoot - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkHmm. I was expecting the 5770 to perform either at the 4890 levels or slightly slower at very least while running cooler and taking up less power. This is quite disappointing. I was all ready to get one to replace my 4850 if the price was right. I wonder how well they can tweak the drivers for this thing. Reply
yacoub - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkSame here, although I'd replace my 8800GT with it. I expected about 25% more performance, and about $10 less MSRP ($150). Reply
hsoverma - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkI bought a 3870 for about 210.00 a year and a half ago. This card has double the performance, a lot more features, and is starting at 160.00. I figure by christmas, it will be down around 120.00. I run a small frag-box, so the lower heat and lower power makes sense for me over a 4870, and if I ever wanted more power, I could run two of these in crossfire and have all that I need. I am putting this card on my wish-list. Thanks again for a great review. Reply
7Enigma - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkGreat article except for the flaw of not a single Memory OC data point. If as the data shows the 5770 is performing poorly due to inadequate memory bandwidth (seemingly the ONLY issue hampering performance when comparing specs between it and the 4870), it makes sense that a simple OC could shed some light on this issue. Please update the article with some numbers as this card is mainstream enough that I would imagine overclockers *could* see this as a gem in disguise. Reply
Ryan Smith - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkOnce things calm down, we're going to do a 5800 series overclocking article. It's something that takes a while to put together, and there are major product launches every week right up through the end of this month. Reply
7Enigma - Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - linkCan you give us a hint then whether this memory has the potential to overclock well enough to where the bottleneck is overcome? I doubt it can completely remedy the situation but if the memory overclock was enough to make up for the significantly narrower bus in most cases, I think this card would have a better reception. Reply
Etern205 - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkJust a stupid question...
ATi's Eyefinity requires a display port monitor to work properly (saw on youtube video), and what it does is makes the image share across the screen.
My question is can you use the ATi card and use all monitors independently without the eyefinity feature?
squeezee - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkYes, you can run the displays independantly just as with any other card. However the 3rd monitor always needs to be Displayport. (or use an ACTIVE displayport adapter) Reply
EJ257 - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkI'm sure there is a perfectly good explanation for this that I'm missing. You say there is 1 SIMD disabled in the 5750 vs the 5770. Looking at the chart on the first page there is a difference of 80 stream processors and 4 texture units between the 5750 & 5770 so this would indicate 4 SIMDs are disabled. Reply
EJ257 - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkWait, never mind. I see each SIMD consists of 4 texture units and 20 SP (Stream Processors) and each SP contains 4 Stream Cores. I guess in the chart when you say Stream Processors you really mean Stream Cores right? Reply
yacoub - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkRyan - THANK YOU for including the 8800GT in the graphs: That is the card I (and many other potential buyers) will be upgrading from, moving to a DX11 card.
It's too bad this new card (5770) can't quite catch the GTX260 C216, as that is its main NVidia competitor in performance and price. It uses just as much Load wattage as a 260, but seems to offer around 80-90% of the performance. Perhaps if they hadn't cut the bandwidth to 128-bit, it would have squashed the GTX-260. But ATI has a habit of under-bussing their cards and it continues to negatively impact high resolution performance, no matter what certain reviewers might claim about the bus-width not hurting performance. Time and again, testing shows potential for improvement from a wider bus.
Blah. ATI, you always come so close to getting me to purchase but there's always something to hold me back. Perhaps if/when this card drops to $139 (without rebates). But by then NVidia might have their answer out and the GTX-260 would also drop in price or be replaced with a DX11 part, and then the 5770 again loses appeal. Reply
MadMan007 - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkI think you'll pass out if you try to hold your breath waiting for a lower midrange NV DX11 answer to these cards. Reply
flipmode - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkWhat in the world is going on with this game? 8800 GT beats the 4850? No, sorry, I don't buy that. Something is wrong here. The 5770 beats everything? If that is the case, then this game should immediately be removed from the bench suite - games in the bench suite should help us understand the general performance characteristics of the hardware and a game that returns such erratic results actually distorts that understanding. Reply
Griswold - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkOn page 13 you say:
"The 3870 beats it by 14W at the cost of a significant degree of performance, while the 8800GT is neck-and-neck with the 4770, again with a decent-sized performance gap."
You certainly meant 5770 there. But this brings me to a question: Why isnt the 4770 included here? As an owner of that card, I'm very much interested in the performance/power/noise difference - just ditch one of the relatively irrelevant SLI or CF combos. I dont think too many care about comparing high-end multi-GPU with performance parts such as the 5770 and 5750, even if its 57xx in CF. Reply
flipmode - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkRyan - thanks so much for the review. Nice job. It does seem like a 5750 Crossfire would be an interesting value - moreso than the 5770 since the latter is overpriced.
And, Anand, I love your site, and don't take this personally, but, PLEASE GET A COMMENT SYSTEM THAT DOES NOT TOTALLY SUCK!
Check out TechReport for an example of the awesomest comment system in the universe.
PLEASE! Reply
Ryan Smith - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkAMD only sent out 1 5750, so I don't have a second one to Crossfire at this time. Reply
Roland00 - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkIt makes no sense (beside bad drivers) for the 5770 to lose to the 4850. The 5770 has more memory bandwidth (76.8) compared to the 4850 (63.55 gb/s), due to the 4850 sticking with ddr3, even with the 128 bit bus. The 5770 is also clocked 36% faster than the 4850 (850 vs 625).
Yet the 5770 underpeforms the 4850 being almost tied? Reply
Zool - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkMaybe the 4*64bit memmory controlers on the perimeter of the chip keep up the data better than 2*64bit controlers with higher bandwith.
I think that they could make it at least 192 bit (3*64bit). Reply
Zool - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkActualy where the hell are the Cypress and Juniper die shots ?
I cant find a single one on net. Reply
Ryan Smith - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkAMD is not releasing die shots. Reply
dgz - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkLooks to me like AMD is trying to lure people into buying the remaining 48** cards. Once the old chips are cleared, the price of 57** will no doubt drop. Reply
GrizzlyAdams - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkWhat really has me concerned is how the 5870 is scaling in these tests.
The 5870 core is essentially two 5770s strapped together, and you would hope scaling would be near linear. When two 5770s in crossfire match or even beat a 5870 I'm left scratching my head.
Somewhere there is a significant bottleneck in the 5870's design, and I'm wondering where that is. Anyone have any clue?
Hopefully a driver update will fix these issues, because if not there is a lot of wasted silicon on each of these chips... Reply
squeezee - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkRemember that there is more to the card than just the ROP/TU/ALUs. If the other logic is intact it could give the dual 5770s a net larger ammount of cache, more resources for scheduling, rasterization, etc. Reply
Ryan Smith - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkExactly. Geometry is also a big thing; the 5800 series and 5700 series have the same geometry abilities. Unfortunately this isn't something we can really test in a meaningful manner. Reply
Torres9 - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - link"The 5770 is 108W at load and 18W at idle, meanwhile the 5850 is 86W at load and 16W at idle."
do u mean the 5750 or is the 5850 that good? Reply
ET - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkI'm again seeing many comments of "DX11 gives me nothing". Well, you buying it gives developers one more reason to develop for it. If you stick to DX10, then it'd take more time to move to DX11. Really. Until the majority of the market moves to a new feature set (and hopefully Windows 7 will help move out of DX9), developers will only use higher end features as "special features". Reply
MadMan007 - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - link1 word for real DX11 rollout: consoles. Reply
ET - Thursday, October 15, 2009 - linkYou're right, though not the way you think. Xbox programming is more like DX11 than DX9 or DX10, and the Xbox also has a tesselation unit (though simpler than in the DX11 parts), so moving to DX11 would make developers life easier.
What users don't get is the difference between API and hardware capabilities. Even if developers limit themselves to DX9 level capabilities, for console compatibility, using DX10 or DX11 only to develop will be much easier than using both DX9 and DX10, and result in faster and less buggy code (optimising for two very different API's is hard). Reply
xipo - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkAs MadMan007 says, there wont be a large adoption rate from the developers towards DX11 until the NEXT generation of consoles ships (around 2012) supporting DX11... Win7 won't matter because game developers are still going to make games for DX9-DX11... Probably the very few game that will come out being DX11 only are going to be some kind of tech demos & suck 4ss! Reply
ET - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkI haven't seen it stated, but I'd like to know if the 4850 benchmarked is 512MB or 1GB. If it's 512MB then the comparison with the 5750 isn't valid. Reply
poohbear - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linku never mentioned that the performance of the 5770 might be a driver issue? the hardware is certainly capable of outdoing the 4870 as we can see in Farcry2, so maybe its just a driver issue? Reply
Ryan Smith - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkI don't believe it's a driver issue. If anything it's a Far Cry 2-specific issue, but that's something I'm going to have to do some more digging for. Reply
GrizzlyAdams - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkThat may be due to some architectural improvements in the 5770's shaders. The drop in performance in other games may be due to the decreased memory bandwidth, which may not matter with regards to Far Cry 2. Reply
papapapapapapapababy - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkthis cards are super lame... 5750, now with +80 stream processors ! XD that 5750 is basically a ( lower clocked!) 4770... guess what ati? that cost me $85 bucks 6 months ago! but who cares right? nvidia is dead so why bother? just slap a dx11 sticker, rice the price ati? Reply
The0ne - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkJust wanted to say I like the conclusion and it's dead spot on on the suggestions and advices.
I'm very surprise almost no one is talking or bringing up the subject of DirectX. DX11 has more chance to succeed yet less attention. It's amazing how badly DX10 was to sway consumers about face. Reply
kmmatney - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkThe problem with DX10 was that you had to buy Vista to get it... Reply
MadMan007 - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkDX10 rendering paths of games that were also DX9 (meaning all of them at the time and even now) were also *slower* and provided little to no i.q. improvements. So even if it hadn't been Vista-only (and only morans keep on with the Vista FUD after SP1) there was no real benefit. DX11 looks to be different in all respects. Reply
Lifted - Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - linkYeah, get a brain!
http://24ahead.com/images/get-a-brain-morans.jpg">http://24ahead.com/images/get-a-brain-morans.jpg Reply
Zool - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkQuite strange that with die size 166mm2 againts 260mm2(rv770) and with 128bit memmory it costs this much. And the 5750 has disabled one simd which even increase the amount of usable chips (but maybe its disabled just for the diference or else the two cards would be exatly the same except clocks).
The Tessellation part with fixed units is exatly the same as 5800 series or tuned down ? Reply
philosofool - Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - linkI chalk it up to lowish 40nm yields at TSMC. Reply
Spoelie - Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - link+ higher cost per wafer as a 55nm one
+ ddr5 prices Reply
Mint - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkUnless you absolutely need to take advantage of the lower power requirements of the 40nm process (e.g. you pay a ton for power)...
According to your tests, the 5770 consumes a whopping 48W less idle power than the 4870, and other reviews have comparable results. If your computer is out of standby a modest 10 hours a day, that works out to 175 kWh per year. That's easily $15/year even for people with cheap electricity.
The funny thing is that I usually see people overstating the savings from power efficiency... Reply
strikeback03 - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - link10 hrs a day is modest? That seems high to me, unless you are doing work that pays on this, I would think most people don't have 10hrs a day for recreational computing. Reply
Mint - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkWe're not talking about most people, we're talking about people who bother to get a 5770 instead of living with IGPs. Many people leave their computer on 24/7 to download torrents or fold or act as a file server (it's nice to access it from work) or whatever. I think 10 hours is a reasonable average for the target audience.
Even if you reduce it to 5 hours a day, though, that's still $8/year. I like to keep video cards for a long time (usu. 2 years or more), and even when I upgrade, the old one is usually handed down.
My point is that it's not something to ignore when comparing to the 4870. It was much less relevent for $300 cards with a 20W-30W difference (4870 vs GTX260 at launch), but now it's a 50W difference for $150 cards. Reply
UNHchabo - Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - linkPersonally, I wish that the 4770 had been included in the power charts. It may be a largely irrelevant card for price/performance, but it's still the cheapest 40nm card that AMD makes. Reply
Zingam - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkReal competition does wonderful things! If NVIDIA hasn't done it so great with 8800, we would never had these great prices by ATI today!
Unfortunately there is nothing like that on the CPU side. :( Reply
MadMan007 - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkIs the GTS 250 512MB or 1GB? It's not even stated in the test setup notes. Reply
Ryan Smith - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - link1GB. Reply
Adul - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkhttp://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id...">http://www.monoprice.com/products/produ...1&p_...
As long as the video card supports outputting hdmi through the display port this will do. So the question is does it support hdmi signals through the display port? Reply
Ryan Smith - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkPassive dongles are not supported on the 5000 series. It has to be an active dongle. Reply
danielkza - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkThere's a typo in page 5, I think you meant 'GTS 250' instead of 'GTX 250' (1st paragraph after the charts) Reply
Skiprudder - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkThanks for the review!
I guess I'm rather surprised at the 5770 results being consistently lower than the 4870 as well, and would be interested in a a bit more hypothesizing as to why exactly this is the case when the stats on the cards suggest they should be at minimum roughly equivalent. Is this situation the sort of thing that might see large changes with updated versions of Catalyst? Reply
Spoelie - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkThe difference is obviously the memory bandwidth. It seems to me that ATi should have gone with a 192bit bus, this change alone would have made the HD57x0 a worthy successor to the HD48x0 range, without any performance caveats, while still being significantly cheaper to manufacture (40nm vs 55nm, 192bit vs 256bit). Reply
Skiprudder - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkI'm guessing your right, but I'd like to see Anand (or Ryan) do one of the track-down-the-engineers that this site is famous for, and hear the rational on AMD's part. Reply
CarrellK - Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - linkAnand knows where I live...
CarrellK Reply
futrtrubl - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkOr even just overclock the memory and see how performance scales. That would provide some evidence for the memory bottleneck theory. Reply
plague911 - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkAt this price point it looks like the 5770 & 5750 are priced to pad AMD's pockets, not to provide increase performance (not that, that's a bad thing when in a war with Intel). With the smaller process size and smaller chip size and similar performance each new part sold will net AMD a substantialy higher profit. This is why AMD will likely kill off the older gen instead of droping the price point. Reply
MadMan007 - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkYes I think that's where my mild disappointment comes from. Not that they aren't great cards for the launch MSRP, they just aren't great in light of street prices, but unlike HD4800 or even arguably HD5800 AMD doesn't seem interesting in shifting the price/performance curve with these cards. At best matching the current price/performance curve leaves me a bit cold. Reply
MonkeyPaw - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkThat's been the trend from ATI lately with their mid-grade cards. The 5700 series is meant to offer roughly the same performance of the 4800 series for a cheaper price. The 4600 series last time was meant to match the 3800 series (the 4770 was quite an oddball though). It's not a bad system, really, as it allows ATI to migrate their lineup with some consistency. Reply
Lonyo - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkIt might be that some of the cost does indeed come from the RAM though.
Once GDDR5 chips drop some more, it will be easy for AMD to drop the prices on these cards, but that might (might) be what's limiting pricing options.
Or AMD just want to try and get maximum profit from these cards.
But even so, when GDDR5 prices drop it will be easier to extract profit at lower prices, so GDDR5 pricing will still be at least partly responsible. Reply
geok1ng - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkReading the charts it gets obvious that it is upgrade time: lets get 4850s, 4870s, and even 4850X2-4870X2 on the next weeks before these cards phase out: they are faster and a LOT cheaper than the 57xx series. As for the high end consumers, just wait for the 5870X2, now that is a card to roll eyes, when and IF it launches. Reply
codedivine - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkThis is relevant only for compute folks like me, but does 57xx support double precision? Reply
Anand Lal Shimpi - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkI don't like to make a habit of disagreeing with Ryan, but unfortunately only Cypress based cards support double precision. The 57xx series does *not* support double precision.
Take care,
Anand Reply
MadMan007 - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkSo where is the double precision implemented? I didn't bother too look it up by I imagine it's buried deep in the shaders. If so why take it out? Is it just disabled or not present at all? If not present I guess I could see removal for the sake of fewer transistors but otherwise it seems like artificial market segmentation. On the other hand hardcore compute power people where time = $$ won't have a problem getting a 5850 or better, or seeing what NV does. Reply
CarrellK - Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - linkDPFP (Double Precision Floating Point) is physically not in the Juniper GPU - it is not artificial segmentation. We had to choose between giving you a GPU that would be great for consumer HPC and games at a price you could afford, or something that cost notably more.
There are virtually zero consumer applications that need DPFP.
CarrellK Reply
stmok - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkAccording to ATI's Stream SDK v1.4 page...
Desktop cards that support double precision: Radeon HD 3690, 3830, 3850, 3870, 3870 X2, 4770, 4830, 4850, 4850 X2, 4870, 4870 X2, 4890.
Mobile GPUs that support double precision: Mobiliy Radeon 3850
None of their IGPs support it.
Their newer Stream SDK 2.0 series (currently in Beta 4), mentions they now support OpenCL in GPU, and that the Radeon HD 5870, 5850, 5770, and 5750 are supported. No mentioned of which can actually do double precision though...
Still, considering the 5770 looks similar in spec to the 4870/4850, it may support it. (The major difference seems to be the Memory Bus Width.)
Come to think of it, what are the requirements to support double precision on a Radeon HD-series GPU? Reply
codedivine - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkThats sad :( .. thanks for the info!
Ryan Smith - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkMy understanding is that it's available in the entire Evergreen lineup. So I'm going to give you a tentative "yes". Reply
codedivine - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkThanks! Reply
endlesszeal - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkAs always from anandtech, great review. However, I almost crapped my pants when I saw the price of a "display port to dvi" dongle," $100?? Hope thats not the average not inflated by Apple price. =) Reply
Zingam - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkYou don't really need that dongle anyway. Reply
Ryan Smith - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkActually, the Apple adapter is still the only active adapter I'm aware of that's widely available. So yes, that $100 is because of the Apple price. Reply
endlesszeal - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linksorry, if this seems newbest since im still using DVI. anyway, i did a quick peak at apples site and only saw minidp to dvi dongle. however, i jumped over to monoprice and found this:
would that work? Reply
Xajel - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkNope this wont work, the card(s) has only two TMDS's for one DVI and one DVI or HDMI, you can't use two DVI's + HDMI...
if you want to connect the third monitor you have to use Display Port, and adapters won't work since DP on this card doesn't support DVI single Pass through ( this will need a seperated TMDS chip )
there's some devices that support DVI/HDMI pass throught using DisplayPort, I'm talking about Apple latest Mac's where they dropped DVI/HDMI and replaced it with DP... that one supports DVI/HDMI adapters as it has it's own TMDS chip which is required for DVI/HDMI signals... Reply
elfick - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkMonitors with HDMI seem fairly common and DP-HDMI adapters appear to be cheap. Could you do DP-HDMI, HDMI, and DVI for a triple monitor setup? Reply
Ryan Smith - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkDP-HDMI is still a passive converter, so it still won't work. Reply
Ryan Smith - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkNo, it has to be an active (powered) adapter. You can tell if one is active if it has a USB plug, since that's where they're drawing power from. Reply
Minion4Hire - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkIt has to be powered if you wish to run dual-link DVI. The single-link MonoPrice adapter will work fine for resolutions up to 1920x1200. But most people looking to run Eyefinity will probably be wanting to go whole-hog with 2560x1600 given the large price tag already associated with such a setup. Reply
kzig - Thursday, October 29, 2009 - linkIf I want to run 3 1280 x 1024 monitors together as 3840 x 1024 in Eyefinity, will I need an active adapter, or can I use a cheaper passive one? Reply
BladeVenom - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkThe Apple one is poorly rated. Dell has one, but it to is $100. And just to rerepeat that, it has to be an active adapter. http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/products/Cables...">http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/prod...us&l... Reply
Ryan Smith - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkI was going to respond to this, but Xajel took the words out of my mouth. Just read his post, it explains why an active adapter is required. Reply
bijeshn - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkPhasing out the 4870 is a bad idea. With time I look forward to the 4870 dropping even lower in price... Reply
Mint - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkThe 4870 will only drop in price to clear inventory, because it's not worth it to produce them with the intent of selling them at $120 or less. I expect them to sell out before the price drops much further.
Don't fret, though. The 5770 has a 128-bit bus and a fairly small die. It will drop in price soon enough, unless NVidia decides to stop bleeding $$ on its huge GT200 chips on $150 cards and Fermi-based mainstream cards can't get down in price. Reply
samspqr - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkwell, my favorite retailer (alternate.de) already has the 5750 and 5770 in stock, at 130eur and 160eur respectively
they also have the 4870-1GB at 115eur, which is MUCH cheaper
in any case, right now, with my usage pattern (24/7 on, but mostly GPU-idle, maybe just one hour a day of GPU stress), the difference in power consumption between the 4870 and the 5770 is at least 50w, which means ((50*24*365)/1000)*0.15eur/KWh = 65.7eur/year
so it pays for the difference in just over 6 months, at the expense of slightly lower performance, with the advantage of less noise
speaking of which, I like my GPUs silent, passive if possible, thankyouverymuch, so I'll wait for vendor-specific designs or after-market coolers; by the time these are out, maybe the 4870 will not eve be available anymore Reply
samspqr - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - link(sorry, that was 8 months, don't know how I got that 6 the first time) Reply
7Enigma - Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - linkSearch for and download GPUTool. It's still in beta and has some quirks but for massive idle power drop it cannot be beat (at least for my system, 4870). I simply lowered the 2D core/memory clocks (they have a low/medium/high setting, and ALL need to be the same setting or you get flickering), down to around 250MHz, and this dropped idle power consumption by a crazy amount (40-80w, can't remember exactly). Once the creator of the program releases a newer version I'm hoping some of the fan speed and voltage mod bugs get worked out. Even so, the 2 second click to lower idle speeds is incredibly handy.
HTH Reply
chrnochime - Wednesday, October 14, 2009 - linkI don't know if you've tried using ATI tray tool already, but after scourging around the web trying to figure out way to keep my XFX 4870 1GB from drawing more power than needed(e.g. when just surfing/playing video), I was able to drop the GPU clock to 400 MHz, and memory to 225 MHz. The memory draws much more power than does the GPU, so leaving GPU at 400 doesn't really make that much of a difference, compared to 250.
Keep in mind that running said program in Vista is somewhat of a headache, since the driver is not signed by MS, so you need to do the work-around to get it running as startup program so the clocks drop can be initiated by the program.
makechen - Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - link48566565 Reply
rdh - Tuesday, January 04, 2011 - linkA year later, the 5770 is *cheaper* than the 4850/4870. I just purchased one for $99 from the egg. It consumes 30% less power at idle and at load than the 48xx cards.
I suppose at the $160 price point, it was fine to slam this card. At the current price point, though, it is the BEST price-for-performance and performance-per-watt card out there. Reply

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Manufacturer: CFL
Trade name: Aleron
Strength: Aceclofenac 100mg, Paracetamol 500mg, Serratiopeptidase 15mg
Type: Tablet
Active ingredient: Aceclofenac, paracetamol, serratiopeptidase
Category: Aceclofenac belongs to non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID). Paracetamol belongs to group of drugs called analgesics. Serratiopeptidase belongs to anti-Inflammatory enzymes.
Pregnancy category: Paracetamol belongs to Australia therapeutic goods administration (TGA) pregnancy category: A AND US FDA pregnancy category: C. Aceclofenac and serratiopeptidase are not classified. It is advisable to avoid serratiopeptidase during pregnancy.
Uses: Aleron tablet is used for pain and inflammation. Aceclofenac has anti inflammatory activity. Paracetamol has analgesic and antipyretic action. Serratiopeptidase relieves inflammation and oedema.
How to use: Aleron tablet is taken with food to avoid stomach upset.
Side Effects: some of the side effects of aceclofenac and paracetamol are dizziness, vertigo, nausea, diarrhea, skin rashes. Serratiopeptidase is safe when taken for short period (for one month)
Sponsored Links
Dosage: Usual adult dose is 1 to 2 tablets daily.
Written by: : healthplus24.com team
Date last updated: February 12th, 2016
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Jami Wintz McKeon is Chair-elect of the Firm and a partner in Morgan Lewis's Litigation Practice.Ms. McKeon's practice focuses on complex litigation, including class and mass actions, and civil and regulatory proceedings.
John C. Goodchild, III is a partner in Morgan Lewis's Business and Corporate Litigation Practice. His practice focuses on commercial contract and credit disputes, business tort litigation, bankruptcy litigation, and real estate litigation.


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wood fire clay body
Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:09 AM
Posted 05 December 2012 - 09:37 AM
I just assumed a teaching position where my predecessor purchased a white clay body for the Feb wood fire. I would prefer a darker one but cannot purchase anything new. I have a small supply of some Standard Clays... Can I use any cone 10 clay for wood fire with decent result?
Only testing will tell. Some of the cone 10 clays may look great in a wood firing and some may be disasters (including not being able to take the cone 10+ heat-work of most wood firings). You don't say how big or what kind of kiln it is but filling it with a pots made from a clay you're not happy with even before you fire it seems a questionable decision at best to me.
"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.
Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:10 PM
Neil Estrick
Kiln Repair Tech
L&L Kilns Distributor
Owner, Neil Estrick Gallery, LLC
Posted 05 December 2012 - 12:54 PM
Gonna have to test it. A lot will depend on the actual heat work of the kiln, especially since many wood firings go well beyond cone 10. There's a good chance everything will be fine, though, as long as you don't push cone 14.
Couldn't have said it better myself--well, actually, I guess I did. (Insert some sort of smiley face here to show that I meant that in a humorous way.)
"But it does move," said Galileo under his breath.
Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:42 AM
Woodfire can be in a fastfire kiln fired for 8-10 hours to Orton cone 9, 2 days in a noborigama fired to different temperatures and atmospheres in different chambers, to 5-7 days in an anagama fired from cone 14-15 in the front to cone 8-9 in the back. And everything in between.
One potential issue with very long extended firings on clay bodies is that clay bodies designed for far shorter firing cycles may not have enough fluxes in them to dissolve all of the available silica that is in the body from either added silica bearing materials or from the silica ejection phase of the normal clay crystal changes.
When this happens, the cristobalite form of silica forms from any crystaline silica when it is held at elevated temperatures. The amount of cristabolite developed is directly proportional to the time held at the high temperatures.
Cristabolite has a very high reversible COE... and can cause bodies that are just fine in shorter firing cycle to dunt when fired in a long cycle wood kiln. I've seen this a million times.
As has been said.... only testing will give you the answers you desire. Or find out if anyone has used the bodies you have available to you before in the specific kiln and firing profile that you plan to use.
John Baymore
Adjunct Professor of Ceramics; New Hampshire Insitute of Art
Former Guest Professor, Wuxi Institute of Arts and Science, Yixing, China
Former President and Past President; Potters Council
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Reflections on Arts Education and the CARE Program
When I used to teach, my favorite moments were wrapped up in an energetic silence—those times when you knew a student was "working it out" in her head. Now that I am an education researcher, I have shifted from teaching into empirically investigating these moments. What exactly is happening to students' thinking when they are exposed to the arts and how can we recognize it when it happens?
The major question we have been asking through the CARE program is how the arts promote critical thinking. Like many others interested in this issue (See: Critical Links: Learning in the Arts and Student Academic and Social Development, for a good compendia of existing research), we have looked at indicators of critical thinking, such as, making robust observations, forming hypothesis about what is going on in a work of art, providing reasoning based on evidence, and handling multiple interpretations…and the results have been significant. For you stats geeks like me who are reading this, we're finding p-values at less than .01 on a majority of the indicators.


text:
How to Wash a Rope
First you tell us to wash our ropes in Ivory Flakes. Now, in the last issue, you said Ivory Flakes are good for washing down as well. Dude! Ivory Flakes were discontinued over 10 years ago! Any alternative suggestions for suitable soaps?
Balls! Next you're going to try to tell me the Doobie Brothers broke up.
I had assumed that Ivory Flakes, like oxygen, were in never-ending supply. But, as you have hinted, getting your hands on some now causes as much consternation as trying to relieve yourself in the corner of a round room.
Technically, you are correct. Ivory did discontinue its Flakes right about the time Clinton took hold of the Oval Office, which means nothing by itself, but in context of events that would transpire a few years later, I suspect he would have paid a princely sum for a box of the gentle soap and a go at hand-washing a certain blue dress.
We can ponder endlessly about how the world might have turned out had he known that Ivory Flakes were nothing more than a chopped up bar of Ivory soap. Or, we can make our own Flakes by getting said soap and shredding it on a cheese grater. Toss a handful of the shredded soap into the wash and you are back in business. If handling soap is anathema to you, try Nikwax Down Wash for feather duds, and PMI Rope Soap for your cords. Now scram!
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Silver-Tone Fossil Nautilus Leather Bolo Tie
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Up for bidding consideration is a set of 4 NEW, White Polka Dot, Glass PANDORA Beads. This set includes four White colored, glass PANDORA beads. Each bead features a white polka dot design in each. The silver barrels are marked "PANDORA" on one side, and "925 ALE" on the other. Beads are supplied by LICCO
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The IGP Chronicles Part 1: Intel's G45 & Motherboard Roundupby Anand Lal Shimpi & Gary Key on 9/24/2008 12:00 PM EST
- Posted in
- Motherboards
53 Comments
Back to Article
Olyros - Sunday, February 08, 2009 - linkI noticed there's a mention in the article about searching for the perfect mini-itx case. The Nexus Psile case that I'm using for my Intel "DG45FC"-based computer is perfect for it I think. Especially if you are after stylish and quiet computers.
Here are a couple of links for you to check it out if you want:
http://www.3dgameman.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4...">http://www.3dgameman.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4... Reply
lubama - Tuesday, October 14, 2008 - linkQuote from "Intel's G45 Motherboard round up
"However, at various times after the system has gone to sleep it will wake back up without intervention for a few seconds and then shuts down. Sometimes this a few minutes after entering sleep mode, other times it occurred an hour or so later. The board requires a full power cycle to come back to life and does not always resume to Vista, instead we receive the error that Vista has been incurred an error after entering the OS."
Have you found a solution to this problem, seems like you are the only person, other than me, who is catching this issue. I have posted in numerous DG45ID forums and this exact issue is non-existent and haven't received any answers.
IntelUser2000 - Sunday, October 12, 2008 - linkAnand, G965/G35/GM965 has 8 EUs(Execution Units), but each of the EUs contain 2 cores, meaning it has 16 cores. Each cores can also process 2 threads, meaning it has a maximum of 32 thread capability. From that, its not comparable to Nvidia, nor ATI so Intel have their own performance metric.
For G45, I assume its 10 EUs, 20 cores. Intel papers mention 50 threads. Reply
puddnhead - Wednesday, October 08, 2008 - linkI second (thrid? fourth? fifth? 9th?) the call for the part 2 (what it's pretty obvious everyone is more interested in anyway, not this article).
I wonder if you coudl at least give us an ETA of not the article itself? You know, if it's this week, this month, or ??? Thta doesn't seem too much to ask, I'm surprised you don't give that from the start. Reply
computerfarmer - Friday, October 03, 2008 - linkLooking forward to part_2.
I hope they are sooner than the promised reviews from these articles.
AMD SB750 arrives on the Foxconn A79A-S...
Date: July 21st, 2008
Author: Gary Key
AMD's SB750: Enabling Higher Phenom Overclocks?
Date: July 23rd, 2008
Topic: CPU & Chipset
Manufacturer: AMD
Author: Gary Key
AMD 790GX - The Introduction
Date: August 6th, 2008
Topic: CPU & Chipset
Manufacturer: AMD
Author: Gary Key
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?...">http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?... Reply
computerfarmer - Friday, October 03, 2008 - linkWhen is PART_2 coming out? Reply
duploxxx - Friday, October 03, 2008 - linkLots of talk of bringing a great roundup of chipsets...already for a few weeks now.
Where does anand start? at the least interesting and the most garbage chipset for several years now.
lets hope your global review is as good as people expect it to be.
you started off already a bit better then you did in recent gpu reviews, you actually took a cpu that was rather common to be used, although a e7200 or Q8200 would be a much better fit for this kind of boards.
whosthere - Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - linkI didn't see any specifics on the Game Settings. Could you please post them...
Thanks Reply
dutchroll - Monday, September 29, 2008 - linkYeah I was thinking much the same thing about the "fanboi" comments.
Can they spell "hypocrite"? It really betrays your allegiance when you rant at Intel then go all wobbly and weak at the knees while mentioning AMD. AT are damned if they do, damned if they don't as far as reviewing either brand's offerings. They've already stated how good the 780G was. They've stated what bugs are in the G45. So what the heck is the problem?
piesquared - Wednesday, October 01, 2008 - linkThe problem is, they promised a SB750 review 2 months ago. The problem is they promised a DFI LP JR. review 1 month ago. The problem is they go well out of there way to avoid any comparison of Intel's ITD, and AMD's IGP. So what if they obscure and bury a line inside an Intel article that gives credit to AMD hardware. They fail to give credit where credit is due, and it is glaringly obvious. And it's even more obvious when this article pops up suddently when Intel has a new driver. They were waiting on Intel's promises of a new driver that would improve performance, and show it's hardware in a better light. Doesn't matter if you crap in a plastic or paper bag, it's still a bag of shit though. I'll make a wager that none of the upcomming "promised" reviews will have any side by side comparisons of Intel's IDT, to any other IGP. Unless of course AT stalls long enough to allow Intle more time to produce yet another driver..... Reply
Imperor - Sunday, September 28, 2008 - linkImpressive how many people just rant on about the review being inadequate when they obviously didn't even read the start of it! If they did that they'd know that reviews of AMD and nVidia boards are coming up and that all will be compared eventually!
I get the feeling that the people talking about "Intel fanbois" tend to have the same kind of appreciation of another brand...
Stating the obvious isn't being partial. It just so happens that AMD don't even come close to competing with Intel in the CPU department! Sure AMD might be cheaper, but there are cheap Intels out there as well. The whole platform tends to get a bit more expensive when you go with Intel but you get what you pay for. I'm perfectly happy with my G35+E2140. Does everything a computer is supposed to do but gaming. I'm not a gamer, so that is a non-issue for me.
Very tempted to go mini-ITX with 1,5TB HDD. Tiny box and lots of diskspace!
Found a nice case for it as well, Morex Venus 668. Not that I know anything about it really but it'll hold up to 3 HDDs and a full size ODD and probably house decent cooling for the CPU while still being tiny (~8"x9"x13"). Reply
robg1701 - Saturday, September 27, 2008 - linkDo any of the boards support Dual-Link DVI?
Im getting a bit sick of having to include a video card in otherwise low power boxes in order to drive my 30" monitor :) Reply
deruberhanyok - Friday, September 26, 2008 - link[quote]We struggled with G45 for much of the early weeks of its release, but the platform wasn't problem-free enough for a launch-day review.[/quote]
You weren't serious here, were you? That basically says "The chipset had problems so we didn't want to write a review talking about them." Reply
piesquared - Friday, September 26, 2008 - linkDoes this sight have an ounce of integrity left? I seriously doubt it. Nothing but Intel pandering left here. You "reviewers" have the gaul to do a review of this attempt at an IGP, yet fail to show any review of either an AMD IGP if it proves how inverior G45 is. Are you seriously implying that people are so stupid that they aren't capable of seeing through this BS? I remember something about a SB750 promise somewhere around 2 months ago that never materialized, then a 790gx promise that never materialized, then another 790gx roundup, that not only never materialized, but the DFI preview article seems to have actually vanished, then the AMD IGP part II looks to be delayed or something, probably vanished due to Intel's poor performance.
I am really really starting to wonder if AT was purchased by Intel. All evidence points to it. If not, then call a spade a spade and don't make promises you can't keep. I'm sure you think none of this matters because you're so popular that people will read no matter what you write here. I wouldn't be so confident if I were AT. Reply
TA152H - Thursday, September 25, 2008 - linkI can tell you guys are really working on gaining that female readership. As everyone knows, women really go for that low-class, vulgar language.
Also, who would want to get rid of PS/2 ports? Whoever on your staff wants this, better have something more than they hate anything legacy. Where's the logic in adding two extra USB ports so you can remove the PS/2 ports? It's not like it's more flexible, really, because you pretty much always need the keyboard and mouse. When's the last time you were in the situation where you said "Oh, I won't be needing my mouse and keyboard today, and I'm so strapped for USB ports, it's a good thing I can use the ones I normally use for the keyboard and mouse for something else". Doubtful you've ever said it, and if you have, you have issues deeper than I am capable of dealing with.
It's not like the keyboard or mouse work better in the USB port, or that it's somehow superior in this configuration. In fact, the PS/2 ports were made specifically for this, and are perfectly adequate for it. Didn't you guys know that USB has more overhead than the PS/2 ports? I guess not. So, you worry about fractions of a percent going from motherboard to motherboard with the same chipset, but you prefer to use a USB mouse and keyboard? I just do not understand that. USB was a nice invention of Intel to suck up CPU power so you'd need a faster processor. It's a pity this has been forgotten.
Sure, let's the replace the efficient with the inefficient, so we can say we're done with the legacy ports and we can all feel like we've moved forward. Yes, that's real progress we want. Good grief. Reply
CSMR - Friday, September 26, 2008 - linkYeah I had to get a quad core so I can dedicate one core to the USB mouse and one to the USB keyboard. Now I can type ultra fast and the mouse really zips around the screen. Reply
MrFoo1 - Thursday, September 25, 2008 - linkNon-integrated graphics cards are discrete, not discreet.
discreet = modest/prudent/unnoticeable
discrete = constituting a separate entity
dev0lution - Thursday, September 25, 2008 - linkI really dislike the trend of recent reviews that go off on tangents about the state of the market, or particular vendor performance gripes and then the rest of the review doesn't even touch on relevant benchmarks or features to back up these rants. If you're going to complain about IGP performance from AMD or NVIDIA, you might want to back that up with at least ONE board being included in the comparison charts. Who cares if Intel G45 gets bad frame rates against itself (across the board to boot). Why not show how 3 IGP chipsets from the major vendors stack up against each other in something mainstream like Spore? If it's a G45 only review, how about you save the side comments for a true IGP roundup? Sorry, but if you have the time to post a "(p)review" that brings up competitive aspects with no benchmarks to balance out those comments, it's basically single-vendor propaganda - nothing in the conclusions deal with whether a IGP in the same price range from another vendor would fill the void that G45 clearly does not fill.
Since when does issues at the release date mean you can't post the review? "We struggled with G45 for much of the early weeks of its release, but the platform wasn't problem-free enough for a launch-day review." - Ummm, might want to include that as disclosure in all your other post-launch day reviews!?! Or do other vendors get brownie points for being problem-free when you can actually buy the product?
Unfortunately, the inconsistency across multiple reviews make it somewhat difficult to compare competing products from multiple vendors because the methodology varies between single chipset and competitive benchmarks, even when you can separate the irrelevant introductory comments and bias from the particular author from the rest of the review.
More authors obviously does not equal consistency or more relevant reviews.. Reply
yyrkoon - Thursday, September 25, 2008 - linkLooking forward to your review of this board(if I understood you correctly), as I have been keeping an eye on this board for a while now. Perfect for an all around general use board(minus gaming of course), but would have been really REALLY nice if that 1x PCIe slot were a 16x PCIe with atleast 8x bandwidth. Hell I think i would settle with 4xPCIe speeds, just to have the ability to use an AMD/ATI 3650/3670 in this system. I think Jetway has a similar board with a 16x PCIe slot, slightly less features, at the cost of like $350 usd . . .
Now if someone reputable (meaning someone who can actually make a solid board from the START *cough*ABIT*cough*) using the Core 2 mobile CPU, SO-DIMMs, etc, AT A REASONABLE PRICE . . . I think I might be in power consumption heaven. Running my desktop 'beast' tends to drain the battery banks dry ; ) Reply
iwodo - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkI wonder if Anand could answer a few questions we have in our mind.
Why with a generation Die Shrink we only get 2 extra Shader instead of like 4 - 6? Where did all the extra available die space went?
With the New Radeon HD 4x series, people have consistent result they can get single digit CPU usage when viewing 1080P H.264 with a E7xxx Series CPU, or slightly more then 15% when using an old Celeron. This is 2 - 3 times better then G45!!!! Even 780G is a lot better then G45 as well. So why such a HUGE difference in performance of so called Hardware Accelerated Decoding? Reply
computerfarmer - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkIt is good to hear about new technology, initial issues and how they are worked out.
I hope the second part of this article is sooner than the follow up of "AMD's 790GX/SB750" expected chipset review. The AMD announcement was on August 6, 2008, with an expected review to follow.
On September 10th, Gary Wrote:
"An update, DFI decided to proceed forward with their uATX 790GX board. My retail kit arrived today and I will be testing it shortly. Also, based on your comments and others I will show a 4870x2 vs 4870 CF on this platform and compare it to 790FX. The roundup should be up late next week, G45 is up on Monday with 790GX/780G/GF8300/NF750a comparison results.
Gary "
The recent article on Power Supplies was excellent.
The information is good, but some items appear not to be as important as others.
Now we are still waiting - AMD 790GX/SB750. Reply
erikejw - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkWho cares about if MSI or ASUS have a faster IGP board, compare with NVIDIAS and AMDs boards.
It is as useless like running a review of the new Nehalems when they arrive and don't compare them to any AMD chips at all, and we all know that will not happen. Reply
BD2003 - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkGlad to see the p45 is getting quality coverage, I was looking very closely at getting one for my HTPC. Theres a few things I'd like to see touched upon, hopefully in future articles.
First, how about a comparison of the post-processing capabilites and quality of the competing solutions? Supposedly intel's "clear video" is supposed to give us the same kind of solution for noise reduction, sharpening, and other postprocessing that nvidia and amd have been offering. Is it an automatic solution that you have no control over like amd, or is there an applet where you can choose how much effect is applied like nvidia?
Also, what about the new revision of intel turbo memory. I always see it mentioned in diagrams and previews, but have never seen it implemented on a board. Does it need onboard flash to function, or is there a PCIE, SATA or USB solution that can be added on to a g45 board in order to enable it? If onboard only, are there any actual boards that have implemented it? My understanding is that its little different from readyboost in vista, but the capability to actually choose whats in the cache is quite interesting to me. On my HTPC, I regularly use the same few apps, and I'd love to get those loading at solid state speeds.
Also, what software is required to enable the hardware acceleration of H.264 and the like? I'm not a fan of using desktop programs like PowerDVD on my HTPC - they often require me to pull out the keyboard which defeats the purpose of an HTPC imo. Can the acceleration be used in Windows Media Center, Mediaportal, or any other HTPC specific software? Reply
Freezebyte - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkHey, what happened to the preview of the DFI Lanparty P45 T2RS? Its between that one and the Asus P5Q-EM for my new SFF setup I wanna build in the next month.
I"ve been hearing lots about discrete video cards not working well or at all in the P5Q-EM. Did you guys run into issues with this or did you not even put in discrete video cards at all? Also, will the Asus support the higher Q9000 series Intel CPU's?
I"m trying to build a decent SFF gaming rig soon, and I wanna know what im getting myself into with either of these boards. Reply
Clart - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkI personally think you should have made price a bigger point, frankly you're comparing the G45 with the 780G, but the 780G boards average at US$80, while you can't get a G45 for less than US$100, plus a could go to newegg and get a 780G+Radeon 4670 for US$145, that's just 15 dollars more!!!
Besides when this site reviewed the 790GX there where some criticism about that chipset not actually targeting any specific market, well here is a hint, how about comparing the 790GX with the G45, both cost around 120 dollars.
Is the G45 a good Business board? Really? Well the way I see it a business pc that doesn't care about graphics performance or ou HTPC characteristics would be much better served with a US$66 780G, that's half the price of a average G45 motherboard, or even a US$49.99 740G.
Sorry if I was a little acid, but I'm just tired of IT sites comparing boards that aren't even in the same price range, the only reason I see for this is that Intel can't/doesn't compete in the same price range as the 780G/8200, but if that is the case then IT sites should compare the G45 with the 790GX.
P.S: Gaming in IGPs is not inexistent, ever heard of VALVe? The entire Orange Box runs on a 780G/8200(possibly the G45 also). But I do agree that with cards like the Radeon 4670 out there IGPs loose a lot of their(little?)value for gaming. Reply
CSMR - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkAMD has an advantage in IGPs (less with G45) but a disadvantage in processors. If you care about price and don't care about power consumption/noise/processor performance you should go with AMD. Businesses will care about these things and are not so price sensitive. Reply
snakeoil - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkthis is pathetic.....
pathetic also that intel fanbois think larrabee will change the world and bring world peace.
pathetic Reply
jmurbank - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - link"8-channel LPCM but no 24Hz Playback"
Is this correct that frequency response will not include 24 hertz. Is this a joke by Intel or by the author. I assume the author is trying to state 24 bit playback.
You should state that hardware MPEG-2/H.264/VC decoding is only supported in Windows.
I prefer AMD processors because they have IGP that works better than Intel's IGP offerings. Also IGP for AMD processors works in Linux while IGP from Intel does not. Intel fans are still stuck with Intel's IGP that are still pathetic. Reply
Anand Lal Shimpi - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkMy apologies, the two are actually unrelated but I wanted to group them both under the same header.
1) 8-channel LPCM is supported
2) 24Hz refresh rates don't work properly currently, this is for video.
Take care,
Anand Reply
CSMR - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkThanks for the review review, a lot of useful information. Regarding the DG45FC board, voltage changes would be useful; but as you and SPCR have found, in combination with the E5200/E7200 processors it is a very power-efficient choice. You can build a low power but relatively high performance system without any tweaks (SPCR had 35W idle, 45W blu ray, 65W max load). Reply
Butterbean - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkI'm not sure why this board is measured/reviewed for its gaming ability (or lack of). A lot of HTPC peeps get these because they are quiet and can play DVD's without the noise /heat. Not many people really expect to play Oblivion on it. Reply
8steve8 - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkthe dg45id has the unique ability to ouptut simultaniously to two displays with a digital interface.
imo its the prefect board for non-gamers with dual-monitors..
seriouosly.. analog sucks.
should be listed in the pros/cons.
CSMR - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkYes, a very important feature for a work system with integrated graphics. Presumably common to all G45 boards with DVI and hdmi? Reply
yehuda - Saturday, September 27, 2008 - linkNo, the Gigabyte board can't do that even though it has both ports.
http://download.gigabyte.ru/manual/motherboard_man...">http://download.gigabyte.ru/manual/motherboard_man... (p. 8, footnote 1)
npp - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkSPCR measured the power consumtion of the same mini-ITX G45 board and found it to consume 35W at idle with an E7200 CPU installed (which should consume a tiny bit more than a 5200, given it works at higher FSB speeds and has more cache).
Your figures showed something like 57W; one would say, hey, no big deal, we're talking about only 22W here. But if you take this as relative difference - it turns out to be 60%! SPCR used only one DIMM, but I doubt this can explain the discrepancy. The PSU was a 400W model, so I guess it has similar efficiency curve as the Corsair model you used.
Given the strange results of you power consumption measurements recently, I have reasons to doubt that something simply isn't right out there.
CSMR - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkSPCR people will make more efficient choices. Efficient PSU, notebook hard drive, non-overclocked RAM. 57W is a good result for a mainstream review. Little things can add up to 22W, especially PSU efficiency. Reply
MadDogMorgan - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkANAND! These vibrant media popups are KILLING ME!!!!
I am about ready to GO INSANE reading your site. You CAN'T POSSIBLY be making any MONEY off those things, they are too INCREDIBLY ANNOYING for anyone to ever THINK about watching one or clicking one.
Oh, and I LIKE PS/2 ports. What's wrong with PS/2 ? It works great, takes less cpu than USB (in my VERY informal mouse testing) and the headers take up very little space on the mobo. You also have the option to use the USB connections instead, if you want. Reply
Anand Lal Shimpi - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkVisit this URL: http://anandtech.com/siteinfo.aspx?off=yes">http://anandtech.com/siteinfo.aspx?off=yes
It'll disable all IntelliTXT on AnandTech for you :)
-A Reply
zagood - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkWow, thank you! Now how do we do that on DT? Reply
MadDogMorgan - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkThank you VERY MUCH for providing this option.
Also, please keep up the good work and I appreciate you spending some time in the HTPC area. It seems to me there is a decided lack of good technical coverage in this arena. The kind of in-depth coverage that only your and a couple of other notable sites provide.
I would like to see some TV Tuner card reviews from your site comparing the technical details of the latest offerings from Hauppauge, ATI and any other popular ones. Toss in a review of a few PVR apps like GB-PVR, SageTV, MythTV and BeyondTV and (HTPC) life would be complete. Don't forge to address the difficulty of getting the channel listings when using a freebe like GB-PVR, or the ins and outs of getting scheduled recordings to actually WORK when the app uses the Windows Task Scheduler.
Thanks Again. Reply
kilkennycat - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkAnand and Gary,
Seems as if an important candidate is MIA in your 3-part review of integrated chip-sets/uATX motherboards, the LONG-promised nVidia MCP7A chip-set for Intel processors with integrated 9400/9300 graphics. The only potential integrated-graphics competitor to the G45 in the Intel-processor world. When is the MCP7A due to be released? Most recent speculation (in DigiTimes, iirc) was the end of this month (September). In time to add a review of one or more uATX motherboards based on this chipset as Part 4 to this group of three reviews? Reply
Anand Lal Shimpi - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkBy the time this series is over the MCP7A won't be out, but we'll have a standalone review of that product to coincide with availability :)
-A Reply
yehuda - Thursday, September 25, 2008 - linkOk, when will this series be over? I ask because the last news on MCP7A said that it should be out before the end of this month and your statement makes me wonder if there's another delay ahead. Reply
kilkennycat - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkAnand, thanks for the reply.
NDA gag on projected-availability information from nVidia ?? Reply
Anand Lal Shimpi - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkYep, it won't be too much longer and NV is quite excited about it but specifics I can't give out unfortunately.
*If* I were in NVIDIA's shoes I'd want to capitalize as best as possible on Intel's handling of G45. I'd make sure that the first products worked *perfectly* and availability was immediate and at competitive prices.
If NVIDIA blows this opportunity I'll be quite disappointed, especially given how much crap it has given Intel about Larrabee.
We'll know soon enough, but after the IGP Chronicles are over :)
-A Reply
Pederv - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkFrom what I read, the G45 can be summed as, "It has a few good points but over all it sucks." Reply
kevinkreiser - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkI was hoping there would be mention of the graphics problems when putting nvidia cards in these boards. I was very vocal about this over at the AVS forums. Did any one notice any mention of this in the article? Also will there be coverage of the new nvidia boards MCP7A? Reply
Gary Key - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkOur final article will feature the discrete cards like the 9600GT and HD 4670. In testing so far, I have not had the problems that have been reported. I do have some additional NV cards coming to test. We will have coverage on the GeForce 9400 series when it launches. ;) Reply
kevinkreiser - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkThanks for the quick reply. I appreciate you guys keeping an eye out for the aforementioned problem. And also thanks for the heads up on the forthcoming MCP7A article. Reply
sprockkets - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...
Shame it costs $100 though. Shame too that Intel boards work so poorly, since I like that mini-itx board. The one from Jetway for the 8200 chipset probably doesn't work any better. Reply
sprockkets - Wednesday, September 24, 2008 - linkExcept the fact that you needed a firmware update on the home theater receiver is just bulls****.
Thanks DRM!
I can't wait till VLC gets native blue ray support! At least we have Sly-Soft! Reply
DoucheVader - Friday, September 26, 2008 - linkHey if it wasn't for a vast majority of people copying stuff, we wouldn't have DRM. I am sick of the complaints. We as consumers created this problem.
Most things that have DRM are to protect someone's bread and butter. How would you like it if every time you got paid there was some money missing?
- Saturday, September 27, 2008 - linkYour point might be valid if DRM worked, but can you point out a single mainstream home theater medium on which the DRM means anything to the pirates?
DRMed CDs? Ha. Those just pissed off consumers when they inevitable didn't play in some players and/or contained bad software. Often defeated with the frickin shift key.
DVD? People have tattoos of the DeCSS source code it's that damn short. Amusingly the longest lasting DRM scheme, with 2.5 years between the first DVD movie release and the release of DeCSS.
HD-DVD? 253 days, not even a full year after the format first shipped its AACS protection system was cracked. Under three weeks later the first copies start showing up on private trackers.
Blu-Ray (AACS)? The same AACS crack applied to it, and about two weeks after the first HD-DVD copies showed up Blu-Ray was right behind it. Launch to first pirated movie: 225 days.
Blu-Ray (BD+)? Slightly harder than AACS apparently, but titles did not ship with it until October 2007 so the cracking community got off to a late start. AnyDVD HD supported decrypting all BD+ titles roughly 5 months after the first titles shipped and copies again showed up soon after.
I'm less familiar with DVD-Audio and SACD, but my understanding is that there hasn't been a direct "crack" of their respective encryption but instead PC-based players and/or sound drivers are modified to just write the decoded bitstream to the hard drive. This works quite well for audio, as in most cases the compression (if any) applied on the disc is not wanted and the uncompressed PCM stream is exactly what the user desires. For obvious reasons that is not feasible with video.
Once these protections are broken, they do nothing to reduce piracy and only remain to prevent fair-use backups by technologically illiterate users and/or to annoy consumers with crap like these HDCP issues.
It doesn't even matter to the pirate crowd whether the cracks are public or private, as long as someone can do it that means the files will get out, and once they're out they're out. Reply


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TeamViewer 8 Released, with Windows 8 and Retina Supportby Jarred Walton on 12/6/2012 2:24 AM EST
30 Comments
Back to Article
Smultie - Thursday, December 06, 2012 - linkNice update, but a bit of a let down that they still haven't integrated an auto-update feature on Mac OS X. Reply
janderk - Thursday, December 06, 2012 - linkI have switched to Google Chrome Remote Desktop these days.
No expensive licenses and works like a charm to help out mam or to access you own home computer from a remote location. Highly recommended and (ok, I am Dutch) zero license fees. Reply
zilexa - Thursday, December 06, 2012 - linkTeamviewer is always free for personal use.. so I don't see your point?
As every free software, its paid for commercial use (duh). Reply
janderk - Thursday, December 06, 2012 - linkGoogle Remote Desktop is free for commercial use too.
Google Remote Desktop commercial use: $0
Teamviewer commercial use: $499-$2694
For personal use there are no license costs for Teamviewer, but features are limited. Like no audio and you get nag-screens. Teamviewer is a fine product, I just wanted to point out that there is a very good alternative. Disadvantage for Google Remote desktop is that you need Chrome installed on both ends. Reply
Camikazi - Sunday, December 09, 2012 - linkAudio works fine on free account with TeamViewer 8 and the nag screen you talk about is one screen when you disconnect. I don't like Chrome and would not like having to install it on every computer just to use their remote desktop (which didn't work as well as TV last I tried it). I also like the fact that I can install just a host program on computers which let me connect to them without them being able to connect to my computers. For personal use and more than a few computers I see TV as more useful. Reply
maxxl - Friday, December 07, 2012 - linkOf course there's PRO version with some extended capabilities. Some time ago I used Team Viewer free, but is has couple not friendly things:
- you need to remember numbers for clients
- Team Viewer is limiting connections, or even blocking free version if someone is using it too frequently.
I found Logmein the best solution for me by now, because I have quite lot friends which need my support from time to time. The only disadvantage is that you have to pay for Logmein client called "Ignition" for mobile devices if you want to use them to give support. Even though, It is worth to pay for it IMO.
I'll try Google Chrome Remote Desktop, but requirement to set up Google Chrome as the main web browser will be unacceptable for some, so it'll disqualify it as wide support tool. Reply
Camikazi - Sunday, December 09, 2012 - linkYou don't have to remember client numbers if you add them to your account and they only limit your connection if they beleive you are using the free account for commercial use and then you can just send them an email explaining your usage (using it to help friends and family is fine BTW) and they will unlock your account. I have about 25 computers on my account ATM and it works perfectly. Reply
MartinAston - Friday, October 18, 2013 - linkTo my mind Google Chrome works like a turtle, and it's not the best options for spontaneous tech support.
If you're looking for a free teamviewer alternative that allows commercial use you may want to try Aeroadmin http://www.aeroadmin.com
Hope it helps. Reply
piroroadkill - Thursday, December 06, 2012 - link.. But damn Windows 8 is so ugly. Those thick borders and flat ugly.. everything. Reply
LauRoman - Thursday, December 06, 2012 - linkAs in Windows 7 those can be modified: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/6283-borders-... Reply
sdunfee - Thursday, December 06, 2012 - linkHi Jarred and readers,
Have you ever tried Mikogo for web conferencing? We are compatible with Windows 8, in addition to Mac/Linux/iOS/Android. Take a look here - http://www.mikogo.com - and let me know if you have any questions or comments?
Spencer Dunfee
Mikogo Team
firstname.lastname@example.com Reply
jabber - Thursday, December 06, 2012 - linkThey really need to issue a small business licence.
I'm a one man band and in order to get back the cost of the tool would take me a long time.
I'd pay around $250.00 but the current pricing just doesn't work.
You have to look elsewhere. Reply
asliarun - Thursday, December 06, 2012 - linkHave you considered join.me?
I use it for quick screen sharing and it works like a charm, even when VNC fails me sometimes. Reply
cpy - Thursday, December 06, 2012 - linkOne thing that bugs me with TV8, is that it locks user account after closing remote session, and i need desktop to be unlocked for me to use what i use. Reply
JarredWalton - Thursday, December 06, 2012 - linkYou can set this in the options menu; the reason for this feature is if you happen to remote connect to a system, and say you're traveling and happen to lose connectivity. Imagine your sensitive data now being freely visible where you left it. With this setting, you now know that your system is locked if you get disconnected. Reply
Camikazi - Thursday, December 06, 2012 - linkThing I find odd is that it does that for one of my comps but the rest it leaves unlocked and I have no idea why that is. I have looked all over for a reason or a setting but I have found nothing. Reply
webmastir - Thursday, December 06, 2012 - linkI think I'm the only one who hates the word Retina. Just call it high resolution & stop putting it on a pedestal.
:) Reply
Chapbass - Thursday, December 06, 2012 - linkGlad I'm not the only one who came in thinking this... Reply
B3an - Thursday, December 06, 2012 - linkNope, loads of people hate it. It's stupid. Typical Apple though. Reply
tim851 - Sunday, December 23, 2012 - linkYeah, typical Apple.
Out of all the consumer electronics marketing terms, like HD Super AMOLED, 3D HyperReal Engine or PureMotion HD+ ... Retina is the worst. Reply
andrewaggb - Thursday, December 06, 2012 - linkIt's more marketing awesomeness. And it works. Nobody's quite sure what Retina means exactly, but apples the only one whose got it :-) Reply
Impulses - Thursday, December 06, 2012 - linkI like Team View a lot, started using it fit similar reasons as Jarred, it's very easy for someone that isn't technical to get it up and running on the other end. Reply
wifiwolf - Friday, December 07, 2012 - linkI've been using teamviewer from version 2 and it's been very handful. The main advantage i've seen from any other VNC product is that you don't have to explain to someone remotely how to configure their firewall or proxy. And since last year i've been using it from my smartphone.
I just say run this program and send the link.
The major drawback is what other people said - price. It's the only reason i still use it as free version. I would gladly license it for a reasonable price even if just to help my family, no commercial use.
And I do hate apple's retina name even if it means you can see as much as your retina can perceive. Reply
dcollins - Friday, December 07, 2012 - linkI use Teamviewer every day for work and in two years it hasn't let me down a single time. It's a little pricy and GoTo* has a few more features, but Teamviewer's performance and reliability are second to none. I can't imagine doing my job without it. Reply
Einy0 - Saturday, December 08, 2012 - linkWe bought TeamViewer at work about 6 months ago. It makes our lives so much easier. Instead of jumping through hoops to get Windows Remote Assistance connected, we just connect and it's done. No playing with the VPN or worrying about firewalls or NAT. We put the quick support icon on our user desktop and it doesn't matter where they are. If we both have internet connectivity it just connects. It also is much more responsive and quicker than WRA. I noticed a long time ago WRA does not do well with latency or slow connections. It doesn't scale down as well as RDP does for some reason. TeamViewer adjusts on the fly, lag is much less of an issue. We love TeamViewer, if anything we plan to expand our usage in the future. I have to agree it is on the expensive side for smaller user groups. I think we spent 2 or 3 grand on ours. Our salesmen are all over the country for weeks at a time and some don't even work out of one of our offices so remote is the only option besides shipping the machine in. Reply
beginner99 - Sunday, December 09, 2012 - linkYeah out of curiosity I tried to connect from my home to my work pc and it worked without settign up anything went right through company firewall. IMHO pretty scary. How does that actually work? (probably the same way skype does'?) Reply
SirMaster - Sunday, December 09, 2012 - linkThe one problem I always have with Teamviewer that prevents me from using more is that it always keeps saying "commercial use detected" and I get limited to 5 minute sessions.
I'm definitely only using it at home to connect to friends/family. I am not using it commercially yet it says that I am. They really need to rewrite their detection code... Reply
Camikazi - Monday, December 10, 2012 - linkJust send them an email about ti and explain that you are not using it commercially and they will unlock it. The same thing happened to me once (BTW if you reformat the computer and reinstall you get a different number that won't be affected) so I emailed them and told them how I was using the program and they unlocked the computer and have had no problems since. It seems their locking is on a per number basis since every other comp on my list worked fine and only my main one got locked. Reply
Azethoth - Monday, December 10, 2012 - linkI have been using Skype successfully for these tasks. You Skype someone, get them to share their screen, and then use voice commands to control the remote machine. Reply
Magnus101 - Monday, December 17, 2012 - linkI started using Team Viewer for the exact same reasons as the author a couple of years ago.
WRA is just a pain to work with. It often refused to start and when it did start, it took forever for the session to start. And for the user at the other end (a relative who isn't that computer savy), it wasn't that easy to start using WRA.
I haven't been using WRA for a couple of years now and haven't been using many alternatives (did try VNC, but it wasn't as good).
But I know that TV just works, starts quickly, doesn't bug out and is free.
At least for me. Reply


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