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ASUS F1A75-V Pro vs. Gigabyte GA-A75-UD4H – Llano at ~$120by Ian Cutress on 11/7/2011 6:00 AM EST
- Posted in
- Gigabyte
- Motherboards
- Asus
47 Comments
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DanNeely - Monday, November 07, 2011 - link"It should be noted that, according to the Gigabyte website, the DVI-D does not support D-Sub by adaptor, and that when on integrated graphics, the connector cannot be changed while the motherboard is powered up."
This sort of no plug and play nonsense is a throwback to the 90s, and has no business on a modern board. Reply
Oberst - Monday, November 07, 2011 - linkThis is quite misleading, as both mobos use a DVI-D. So also both do not support D-Sub via adapter, Gigabyte is just the only manufacturer that clearly stresses this issue, all others assume that you know what the difference between DVI-D and DVI-I is.
Also no word is left, that the gigabyte board is capable of Dual Link DVI, while the asus only allows single link, which enables only a limited range of display resolutions. As Dual Link on Llano boards is not very common, that would surely be some important fact to mention.
I'm also not quite sure, what gigabyte means with "All integrated graphics ports do not support Hot plug. If you want to change to another graphics port when the computer is on, be sure to turn off the computer first." Maybe just a false translation, meaning you have to reboot the system, when changing the output (as the display driver doesn't switch the output automatically, you have to do that manually in the driver or by rebooting). Reply
DanNeely - Monday, November 07, 2011 - linkIt's the no-hotplug part that apalled me, I should've trimmed the 1st part of the sentence away to be clearer but was in a rush for the shower by the time I finished reading the articel. Reply
Oberst - Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - linkI'm not sure if that is really that strict as this statement shows. The Gigabyte translations are often not very good and the real meaning is quite different to the written text.
When you change your display from DVI to DP, you have to do a reboot as the driver won't switch automatically. That's because you could just pull out a plug by hitting the cable accidentally. So the driver holds the primary output on the plug that was used before, only a reboot initiates a rescan of the displays and switches to another one.
So maybe gigabyte wanted to express this. That would definitely be something to try out. But i can't imagine that you cannot plug in a second monitor on a running system, that would really be some strange behavior. Reply
Googer - Sunday, November 13, 2011 - linkUse a displayport adapter If you need DUAL LINK DVI connection on the ASUS board. Reply
Etern205 - Wednesday, November 09, 2011 - linkYea, DVI-D doesn't support DVI to VGA adapter as there is no 4 analog pins on that DVI port. Also even if it doesn't have that 4 pin, the adapter still won't fit as the analog ground (that horizontal pin) on the adapter is a tad wider. Reply
Etern205 - Wednesday, November 09, 2011 - linkMy mistake, looks like there is a DVI-D to VGA adapter and it's not the DVI to VGA adapter I was mentioning.
DVI-D to VGA adapter
DVI to VGA adapter
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8... Reply
cjs150 - Monday, November 07, 2011 - linkReally like layout of Gigabyte board. Although this is more of a problem with M-ATX boards I have struggled recently with fitting both graphics card with waterblock and a air cooler over the memory (fits but is incredibly tight) so seeing the PCIEx1 slot above the PCIex16 is a good move.
What are all those legacy PCI slots doing there? What do people use them for? Across 5 computers at home I use 2 - I for a really old RAID card and one for a TV tuner. Is there really any need for them now?
Recently I have seen a board with right angled 24 pin ATX socket. Please can this become standard Reply
Golgatha - Monday, November 07, 2011 - linkPCI is for your old sound card. Now if you're building new, there is no need for PCI to exist. Reply
Taft12 - Monday, November 07, 2011 - linkIDE controller, RS-232 card... Me and many like me still need a PCI slot, and Asus and Gigabyte's market research shows the same.
PCI will still be with us for many years to come yet. Reply
Death666Angel - Monday, November 07, 2011 - linkLike he said, no reason to have that in a consumer product. If you need those controllers, buy server stuff. I haven't used a PCI card in my last 3 builds. Reply
PC13 - Saturday, November 12, 2011 - linkJust because you never needed them doesn't mean we don't. It's not your right to talk for everybody. Reply
Roland00Address - Monday, November 07, 2011 - linkI understand your point but those add on cards exist in a pci express option as well.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8... Reply
knedle - Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - linkyeah, but it's cheaper to use your old card, than to buy a new one ;)
also from time to time I make linux based routers, and they need two nics, it's a lot cheaper for me, to just add some $3 ethernet pci card, than buy something with pci express
oh! and don't forget those old scsii scanners, that some offices use, and they need cheap scsii pci card (or printers that need two way lpt port)
there is no harm in keeping those pci slots, so they just kept it, I'm pretty sure that if they were changet to pci express slots, there would be pci guys complaining ;) Reply
Googer - Wednesday, November 09, 2011 - linkAn INTEL brand PCI-e NIC can be bought for less than $30 on newegg. That's cheap. Reply
DanNeely - Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - linkMaybe, maybe not. Intel's removing it from some of their 7x series chipsets; and if the MSI x79 boards are an accurate indication, my prediction that most mobo vendors would initially add it back with bridge chips appears to be incorrect. If that's the case it'll disappear from all mainstream boards in the next year or three, although there will almost certainly be a few vendors that sell boards with it. You can get boards as recent as LGA1156 with ISA slots from industrial system vendors. (LGA1155 +ISA is probably still in design, a year ago when I looked the most recent I could find was LGA775.) Once you get into very low volume products the price gets ugly ($400 for an otherwise low end board); but thier target customers are using them to control legacy hardware with typical prices starting in the 5 figure range and soaring rapidly from there
http://www.ibt.ca/v2/items/mb950/index.html Reply
Googer - Wednesday, November 09, 2011 - linkIDE is available as a PCI-express addon. My Local CompUSA sells a bootable IDE add-on card in PCI-e for $29. I think it also had 2 usb ports as well. Not a bad deal. Reply
Googer - Wednesday, November 09, 2011 - linkWhat do you have that would still require PCI that you can't get in PCI-express? Reply
DanNeely - Monday, November 07, 2011 - linkProbably a limited number of PCIe lanes on the chipset. Reply
mariush - Monday, November 07, 2011 - linkPeople still use the pci slots for:
* tv tuners (especially here in Europe where HD is not that popular),
* additional sata controllers
* sometimes SCSI controllers for some old scanners, firewire cards
* serial / parallel port controllers (not all usb to serial devices are good)
* sound cards (some still think soundblaster live sounds better than integrated cards)
* quality 100mbps network cards (connecting pc to a printer for example)
etc etc Reply
Mitch89 - Monday, November 07, 2011 - linkA proper sound card definitely sounds better than the integrated ones that come on every motherboard, no question about it.
As for PCI slots, I still have a few devices in use in my machines including a few DVB-T digital tuners and a soundcard.
When building my latest Media Centre, however, I purchased a PCI-e DVB-T tuner, so the legacy slots we're something I was looking for. Reply
knedle - Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - linknot really, the funny thing is that if you are interested in perfect sound, it's better to buy a board with integrated sound card and connect it with digital cable to amplifier, this way you are using amplifier as D/A Converter and you get way much better sound, than any sound card bellow $500 you can buy Reply
cjs150 - Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - linkIt is interesting to see what people use the old legacy PCI slots for. As mentioned in my first post I still use a TV card in one but to be honest there are better PCIex1 cards for that now (do not get me started on USB TV tuners - useless is the nicest description). I havent used a PCI sound card for at least 5 or 6 years. Last time I had an external card (bundled with an ASUS motherboard) it also used a PCIex1 slot.
Now I am all for recycling old bits of kit to keep build costs down but there does come a point when it is time to wave good bye to legacy slots. Motherboards do not often come with a floppy drive port and IDE socket has basically gone the way of the dodo as well. PCI surely is the next to go. But maybe posters here have convinced me that there is at least a little bit of time left in it Reply
DanNeely - Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - linkThe only card I have that's legacy PCI is a BIOS POST code reader that I've been unable to find a PCIe1x replacement for; but with UEFI replacing BIOS it's about to become obsolete anyway. Reply
Googer - Sunday, November 13, 2011 - linkSounds like you ought to keep an old legacy system for TV Tuners, SCSI, etc along side your new-fangled PC; both on the network so you can easily access the older equipment.
Second, all of those devices listed are available in PCI-e, Quality Network Cards are available from Intel in PCI-e flavor. Creative makes X-Fi in PCI-e, and LSI (and adaptec?) Made a SCSI card in PCI-e. Serial Parallel ports can also be had with PCI-e and I agree that USB emulators for RS232/IEEE1284 are garbage. Reply
Edgar_Wibeau - Monday, November 07, 2011 - linkFrom the screenshots I can see, the BIOS/UEFI version used with the Asus board is 0902. Yet, their current version is 1502, which dates 2011/10/21, and in between 1103 (2011/10/07) and 1102 (2011/08/26). Did you flash a more current UEFI after taking the shots? Or if not, why?
http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_Socket_FM1/F1... Reply
jan.peralta - Monday, November 07, 2011 - linki would love to see gaming benchmarks for HD6670 with the A6, especially for the ASUS board
thanks! Reply
Dug - Monday, November 07, 2011 - linkI second that! Reply
Dug - Monday, November 07, 2011 - linkI must be out of the loop.
What does One 580 mean? Reply
silverblue - Monday, November 07, 2011 - linkA single 580 as opposed to two of them. Reply
androk - Monday, November 07, 2011 - linkThey should really test the IGP at reasonable graphics levels compared to what it can do. AVideo test at 1920x1080 and all grahpics options on is silly fo rhtis. There may have been real differences at medium (playable) settings but we'd never know it from this write up. Reply
Shadowmaster625 - Monday, November 07, 2011 - link$120 for just a motherboard? Really? Can i get a WTF? I just bought a G41 mobo, an E6600, and a HD 4850 all for a combined cost of under $100. It overclocks to 3.2GHz, which is enough to put it well past an A8-3850 in gaming. Well past... Actually with such a powerful gpu you really dont even need an overclock to beat a llano at gaming.
Granted these were used parts, but still you can buy a brand new H61 board for $40 http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3444... Combine that with a 5670 which can easily be found for under $50 and you have a $90 solution that is way faster. As if AMD needed any help killing itself... these motherboard prices are absolutely absurd. Reply
silverblue - Monday, November 07, 2011 - linkDesktop Llano makes the most sense in HTPCs. As people are willing to pay a premium for such items, I doubt AMD is too worried. Regardless, a Llano setup will use less power, you have far more multiprocessing power, and there's better video support as well as DX11 support. Llano can also be overclocked, albeit in a limited fashion, should you choose to do so. In the end, horses for courses.
Laptop Llano is a more appealing option however. Reply
Taft12 - Monday, November 07, 2011 - linkPlease stop comparing prices of new and used hardware. Apples and oranges.
These $120 motherboards are top-of-the-line for the FM1 socket and have the most features of any FM1 boards on the market. If cost savings is important to you, FM1 motherboards can be had for $60 or less.
Motherboard prices are NOT set by AMD, they are set by Asus and Gigabyte based on the value-add over and above what AMD provides in the chipset.
The H61 board is not $40, it's $60 with a mail-in rebate. There's a big difference.
I think this covers all the errors and misconceptions in your post... Does anyone see any that I missed...? Reply
medi01 - Tuesday, November 08, 2011 - linkHe has a point though.
Motherboard prices DID go up. To an extent that you wonder if there is a cartel agreement between manufacturers.
Hard to blame AMD for it though. Reply
swaaye - Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - linkMobo prices haven't gone anywhere. There are consumer mobos from $80-350. Pick your poison. Pricing has been like this since 486s as far as I recall. Reply
TrackSmart - Monday, November 07, 2011 - linkIan, just a note that the color shown for each board changes in some of the graphs. This is confusing and has me wondering if the graphs are miscolored or mislabeled...
Thanks for the review. Reply
HW_mee - Monday, November 07, 2011 - linkDoes the onboard audio not deserve a mentioning?
I would love to know how the ACL892 fares against the ACL889.
I know integrated audio is mediocre at best, but some past AMD boards, especially from ASUS, have featured useless cheap VIA/Realtek audio solutions. Reply
kenyee - Monday, November 07, 2011 - linkCould you repeat this w/ their mATX boards? Reply
Googer - Wednesday, November 09, 2011 - linkThe ASUS F1A75-V EVO is identical to the ASUS F1A75-V Pro, except the EVO adds an additional PCI-e x16 slot. If you watch prices close enough, you can pick this board up around $125. I got mine for $126 +$10 rebate a few weeks ago, final cost $116.
The Major selling points for me on this board over the Gigabyte and competing models were, that all the other boards support 32GB while ASUS supports 64GB and the extra x16 slot seals the deal for the ASUS F1A75-V EVO.
Also, the review states how many power phases are on the Gigabyte board (8+2) but didn't specify how many phases are on the ASUS. Reply
Taft12 - Wednesday, November 09, 2011 - linkAn F1 socket board with 3 PCI-E x16 slots? Consider my face palmed. Reply
Googer - Sunday, November 13, 2011 - linkASUS and ASROCK have FM1 boards with 3 PCI-e x16 slots. There maybe another, but I'm not aware. Reply
Googer - Wednesday, November 09, 2011 - link"The Gigabyte board wins again in our USB 3.0 testing."
Since the ASUS uses two separate USB3 controllers, one on chipset, the other an ASmedia USB3 PCI-e. Peformance can vary based on which port you plug in to. If I remember correctly, the front Panel and ports near the PS2 port is the other ASmedia USB3 port. A little retesting is certainly needed here. Reply
Etern205 - Wednesday, November 09, 2011 - linkI've notice there are four display outputs, VGA, DVI, HDMI, and Display Port. What is the maximum number of displays you can use at one time just by using the IGP?
Not doing for eyefinity, but for 3 separate monitors.
Thanks Reply
Googer - Sunday, November 13, 2011 - linkI haven't tested it but on my ASUS, I think the limit is 2 with out discreet graphics. However, I could be wrong on this. Reply
crtune - Sunday, November 13, 2011 - linkIt really depends upon the device. I have an Echo Audio Mia card from several years ago, which while not having exactly every feature a newer card would have, has profoundly excellent audio quality. For the type of audio I work on (2+1 traditional stereo; mostly demo recordings, documenting gigs I'm on and so forth) this audio card is ideal and really I do not want to spend the several hundred on a newer one which will meet the standards I have for audio cards (in Los Angeles, CA as a musician I compete with people who have top quality audio gear). NONE of the onboard audio, on even the best on-board audio set ups will be as noise free and low latency as the audio I'm getting using this old card.
So, now you should understand why someone might want to use legacy PCI bus hardware devices. Reply
swaaye - Tuesday, November 15, 2011 - linkThe people who think "legacy" ports are bad aren't going to be convinced otherwise unless they have their own reason for using them. This topic comes up endlessly. Reply


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AMD's Radeon HD 6790: Coming Up Short At $150by Ryan Smith on 4/5/2011 12:01 AM EST
69 Comments
Back to Article
SquattingDog - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - link"it's LEANING from the past..." should be it's LEARNING from the past. Otherwise a great article, very speedily put out. Looks to be an interesting card, depending on what pricing it is available at here. Of course the 6850/6870 are much better and the 6850 looks to be better bang for buck, but when people cannot squeeze a few extra bucks out of the wallet, it should be pretty reasonable. Especially once the GTX460s are out of circulation, which is bound to happen soon enough.
Glad to see more competition and finally some products reaching further down in the retail sector not just OEM from AMD. Reply
ZL1Corvette - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - link2nd to last page possible typo:
"Last but not least as always is our look at the power consumption, temperatures, and acoustics of the GTX 550 Ti."
Did you mean 6970? Reply
ZL1Corvette - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkSee, we all make mistakes. I meant 6790. Reply
stm1185 - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - link800 Stream Procs, 40 Texture Units, 16 ROPs, 256 bit memory bus. Only the 6970 has a 840mhz clock compared to 750 mhz, and 1050mhz on the memory compared to 900mhz on the 4870.
My card has held up well it seems. Reply
james.jwb - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkI have a 4890 with a 2560x1440 screen, and to my surprise, i can play quite a few games at 30fps, and most older ones at 60+fps. Like F1 2010, around 50fps.
What a card, eh? Reply
WhatsTheDifference - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkhello. nice card. I play everything at 19x12 with my 4890 (in this case, an msi cyclone soc) with never a problem of any kind. it bloodies the 285's face.
kind of a wondrous thing, then, that anandtech.com has banned the 4980 from all benchmarks...ain't it? XD Reply
B3an - Wednesday, April 06, 2011 - link*rolls eyes* ... They dont have any 2xx series here either. The ATI 4xxx and NV 2xx series do not belong here.
If you want to see how your 4890 stacks up simply go the the GPU Bench page to compare. Reply
WhatsTheDifference - Saturday, April 09, 2011 - linkwhat would you say these are, at least at first sight?
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 295
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 285
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260 Core 216
AMD Radeon HD 4870X2
AMD Radeon HD 4870
please make your way to 'index' and 'the test'. or, maybe I'm confusing articles.
now adding the always-juvenile *rolls eyes* Reply
pandemonium - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkGotta take the bad with that good though.
Both the 4870 and 4870x2 run much hotter and take a butt load more power to produce lower framerates. And the 4870 was never a lower tier card by any means. Plus, no DX11 support on the 4870. Not that it's incredibly important, but just another note.
I'd say this is a good example of hardware evolution. Reply
edpierce - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkI disagree. Recent video card innovations have been real unimpressive lately. It really does seem like we are not much further than 3 years ago in terms of visual video card performance. Are we hitting a massive roadblock here? Reply
silverblue - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkUntil we shift from 40nm, probably. Reply
mgl888 - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkNot much they can do without a process shrink. Architectural improvements can only go so far. Reply
Taft12 - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkNo, there is no wall to speak of. The 4870 was a "first tier" part and this 6790 is "third tier". Compare the performance of the 4870 with a 6970 instead (and indeed the launch price of the 4870 with the launch price of the 6970) and you'll see we are doing just fine thank you very much. Reply
tno - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkBut not long after release the 4890 was retailing after discounts for $160-150. That's what I bought mine at and I have yet to find a compelling card to take its place. Part of that does have to do with a decrease in my gaming, but if I was a budget gamer, I would look long and hard at a used 4890. Reply
tno - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - link+1 Reply
pandemonium - Wednesday, April 06, 2011 - linkOnly if you don't consider the broad picture and are looking at performance individually. Reply
marc1000 - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkI have a 5770. and even with the desire to upgrade to 6950/gtx570, i try to remain honest with me and tell to myself: "I don't need it"
this level of performance if perfectly fine to play all current games, because we are all stuck with console ports... Reply
jordanclock - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkI have a 5770 as well, and at 1680x1050, almost everything runs flawlessly, even with AA at 2x or 4x. The situation with multiplatform development is starting to really agitate PC gamers, I think. Crysis 2 looks infinitely better on PC (And ultra high end setups run tri-monitor quite well!), Dragon Age 2 has a texture pack that consoles wouldn't even have the memory to use, and so many games are looking identical on PC and console, meaning that while they run at high framerates on modest hardware, there is no option to increase visual fidelity to offset the increased hardware. Reply
tno - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkI concur. I have a 4890 that I picked up for $160 not long after its release after discounts. This thing was top tier, and it was pretty unique product coming out when ATI started treating their multi-GPU single card solutions as their true halo products. And for its flaws (noisy, power hungry and no DX11) it competes for performance at its original price.
This is mirrored, frankly, in the PC market where the effective performance increase, that is performance that the average PC user (not us) will notice, has remained fairly flat since Conroe. What has improved is features. For that same budget dual-core Conroe price you get an integrated GPU worth its salt, improved efficiency, improved encoding/decoding performance (the thing users might notice most) and, possibly, more cores. Reply
kmmatney - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkI also have a HD4890, bought for $170, and attached an Accelero S1 cooler, so its virtually silent (only a very slow spinning fan that I can't hear across the heatsink). I'm still amazed after so much time that I cannot get a better card for the same price - things just haven't progressed much in the bang-for-buck department. Reply
deputc26 - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkOn the last page.
"and it would make NVIDIA think long and hard about what to do with what to do with the GTX 460 768MB"
Oh and this comments section never remembers me despite always ticking the "remember me" box, (W7 Chrome)... annoying Reply
Belard - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkWhy not just reduce the price of a 6850 a bit more... And calling it the 6830 wouldn't have hurt that much - since AMD totally screwup the model names of the entire 6000 series.
Pretty much everyone knows the 6800s are cheaper and slightly updated 5800s.
Think I'll wait until the 7000s come out... but that maybe in 2012. Reply
enterco - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkSo, 6790 looks like a 5770 with a little performance improvement. For a 5770 / 450 owner it doesn't make any sense. Maybe for a new computer build on a specific tight budget. Reply
Arnulf - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkAnd 30+% the price. Why not go for the best price-performance at low overall price (which 6790 clearly isn't) when on extremely tight budget ? Reply
medi01 - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkYet another round of "uhm", "oh", "but", "duh" about AMD product.
In other news, we compare three 350$ AMD cards vs 3 500$ nVidia cards.
Way to go, Anand. Reply
Mecavity - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkOh, yay. Wouldn't be a proper article without someone complaining about an nVidia bias.
A) The most expensive card included is an AMD...?
B) The article is about a 150$ AMD card...? The case is being argued fairly, and the actual FOCUS is on comparing cards at the same level of pricing...?
C) Critique works better if you state what you'd like to see included...?
D) Derp. Reply
medi01 - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkThe article is about 6790 and most of the conclusion page is about how 5830 sucks? (And how much did 5830 suck? Oh', they've dared to add more features while sacrificing a bit of performance and charge a bit more for it, how shameless... And this made it into the title of the product review. Pathetic.) Reply
strikeback03 - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkI noticed they gave this the exact same title they did for the 550Ti - "Coming up short at $150". And really the criticisms are the same - it is overpriced compared to both internal and external competition.
How would you suggest they get excited over this? And how do you claim bias when one of the products they keep pointing to is the 6850? Reply
medi01 - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkJesus Christ, AMD 3x350$ cards vs 3x500$ nVidia cards, where is bashing of the latter? (expensive, under performing and power hungry)
How about if bashing, then bash both (who was there "duking out for performance king" eh?) if using softer words, then for all?
Don't have balls to bash both anymore (stinky nVidia stories, *cough*)? DON'T BASH ANY!!!
Oh, and last time I've checked, 460 was 160-200$ card (with MSRP 190$). And that was today. Reply
cknobman - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkI agree with ya.
This article is focusing on the wrong things. Nvidia 460 768 MB is on the way out and has been publicly stated by Nvidia so that is going to leave a huge hole at $150 price point which is where the 6790 fits in. If you check out some of the other review sites the card performs pretty well (Anand your game library for benches sucks, HAWX - really? get with the times already!!!) plus the 6790 overclocks like a champ.
Sure this is not the perfect $150 card but its most likely going to be the best there is in the immediate future.
Im disappointed in this article. Reply
Ryan Smith - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkAs a matter of editorial policy I don't like to base my conclusions around future card availability; the only thing for sure about the future is that it's not what I expect it to be.
"Discontinued" cards are normally available for quite a long time after they're launched, and for the time being the GTX 460 768MB is readily available online and at retail for very good prices. Reply
silverblue - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkYou only have to think of other "discontinued" products to remember how popular they were for a good time after they were no longer produced - the Radeon HD 4850, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 250 and the AMD Phenom II X3 720 BE spring to mind. Reply
jabber - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - link...simply install another 5770.
Well its what I did.
Wonder how the 5770 stacks up to the 6790 with 900/5000+ OC. Reply
marc1000 - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkI would love to see some RECENT tests with the 5770 CF... all reviews available are from the time of launch, comparing it with the 5870 only and in old games.
it would be nice to have a recent comparison of CF/SLI from previously mainstream cards (5770/460)
:-( Reply
fingerbob69 - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - link...this card plays most games with all the effects on full. I want to change it but can't see the point.
I think the HD7xxx are gonna be game changers though with the bump in performance quite huge compared to HD4xxx and HD5xxx levels.
As to wether any games are about to test the "*nm cards is another question. Reply
fingerbob69 - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - link"*nm should read 28nm. Reply
jabber - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkYeah I feel the 5XXX series were a major improvement that probably did far better than AMD expected, especially as they are still largely an attractive buy, two years later.
So I saw the 6XXX series as merely a refresh of the 5XXX series. I was in no hurry to buy.
Hopefully the 7XXX series will be the one to watch out for. Reply
Hrel - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkPrices have already "crept up". The GTX460 768MB was available for 130 after rebate for quite a while. Or at least 150 on more expensive brands. Now 150 is the cheapest I can find it. Also, every time you say the GTX460 768MB or the HD6850, if you're getting a 6850 you can get a 1GB GTX 460 for the same price. Just sayin', seems like you're unfairly giving more attention to the AMD product.
In general though it seems like the GPU manufacturers had a secret meeting where they all got together and decided to start raising prices (profit margins) on all their GPU's. Cause based on performance and past prices the 550ti should be real real close to 100. The 560ti should be basically 200 bucks; 200 is where I'd start recomending that card to people. The GTX460 768MB should be 130 and it should stay there; 1GB should be about 150. And the same can be said for the AMD variants; 6850 would be about 150 and so on. Reply
Hrel - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkhmm, just checked prices. Cheapest 1GB 460 I'd buy is 170, gigabyte, cheapest 6850 I'd buy is 155, XFX. So I kinda sorta rescind my statement; but not really. You guys still seem like you root for AMD regardless of who they're compared to. I'm not saying you skew your results and test unfairly; that's why I come here, it just seems like you're all kinda rooting for AMD to get on top in every market. Ofcourse if they did maybe you'd start rooting for Intel and Nvidia... we'll probably never know. Reply
H8ff0000 - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkI know this is unrelated to the article, but does anyone know when AnandTech is going to do some P67 reviews? I'd like to see the Sabertooth P67 Rev 3 reviewed, possibly with some other boards for comparison. Reply
geniekid - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkTom's used a higher end card paired with the 6790 to test the Crossfire performance of this thing. The results suggest there might be some value to this card if used in Xfire configuration compared to single cards around the same price. It would be nice to explore that possibility! Reply
BPB - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkI have been happily running with two HD4850's for a few years now, and want to upgrade. It seems to me that if I stick to a 24" 1920x1200 monitor practically any card will do. Still, I don't like the idea of getting a 6800 series since it's practically 2+ year old technology. Wondering if I should go 6900 series, or wait till 7000 series. Come AMD, man up, put some real upgrades out there that make it easy for me to decide. Reply
richardginn - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkit is nice to see a review the AMD 6790 video card, but how about a review of the AMD 6450, AMD 6550, and AMD 6670 OEM video cards??? Reply
jabber - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkArent they just the 5XXX cards re-branded with a 6? If so a waste of time.
Plus as they are OEM we wont be buying them. Reply
richardginn - Wednesday, April 06, 2011 - linkActually no. These OEM cards are very different.
The 6450 video card which I have only seen sold as an option at HP.com is supposed to be like twice as fast as the 5450 based on the specs listed from the AMD website.
If you are talking just a rebranded video card you have to be talking about the OEM 6770 and 6750 video cards which have no performance boost in the FPS area.
Will these cards go off OEM status when Bulldozer CPU'S are released or just move on to something like a 7450 video card???? Reply
Ryan Smith - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkFunny you should mention that... Reply
BoFox - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkIs the memory bus really 128-bit instead of 256 bits wide? I'm wondering why Anandtech put a lot of effort into checking up on GTX 550 Ti's 192-bit bandwidth with an odd number of chips, but not on either the 5830 or 6790 that claims 256-bit bus while the ROPs are cut in half.
We all know that the number of ROPs is tied with the memory bus for a given architecture design. This is why NV's GTX 550 Ti seems much more valid, as it is linear with 24 ROPs.
If we look at the 5830 here:
3D Mark Vantage color fill test is strongly correlated with the memory bandwidth. If the 5830 were 256-bit, it would have had identical bandwidth with 5850. However, the performance shows that it is not the case. It is barely half of 5850's performance, and also much slower than HD 4870 which has only 16 ROPs at a lower clock than that of 5830.
Next, if we look at BeHardware's ultimate scrutiny (just as respectable as Anandtech's examination of GTX 550 Ti): http://www.behardware.com/articles/783-3/preview-r...
We see that the 5830 has far lower FP16 and FP32 GPixel/s writes than not only the 5770 that has a slightly higher fill rate, but also the 4890 to a far greater degree. The test is directly linear to the available bandwidth as the 4890 is so much faster than the 5770, let alone 5830 in that respect.
One more thing is that as with Barts architecture, we should all know that it is based on VLIW4 architecture, not the traditional VLIW5 one. It seems that AMD wanted to save the "thunder" for Cayman's launch by reserving the announcement for what desperately needed as much thunder as possible. Just look at how close 6870's performance is to 5870 while comparing 6870's 1120sp and 4.2Gbps bandwidth to 5870's 1600sp and 4.8Gbps bandwidth.
Hope you guys enjoyed a little bit of exposure! Is AMD deliberately giving us wrong information? That's not my problem, but if I were the one reviewing the product, I would definitely point these things out in my article. Reply
Ryan Smith - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkFrom a graphics point of view it's not possible to separate the performance of the ROPs from memory bandwidth. Color fill, etc are equally impacted by both. To analyze bandwidth you'd have to work from a compute point of view. However with that said I don't have any reason to believe AMD doesn't have a 256-bit; achieving identical performance with half the L2 cache will be harder though.
And Barts is VLIW5, not VLIW4. Only Cayman is VLIW4. Reply
BoFox - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkBarts is also Northern Islands--the keynote of the architecture being VLIW4.
See, the 6790 wouldn't come within 2-3% of 5830 according to all of the benchmarks at the review here.
If it were VLIW5 like the 5830, the 6790 would've been MUCH slower (or the 5830 much faster).
This is because HD 5830 has 1120sp, which is 40% more than 6790's 800sp. It also has 56 TMU's, which is 40% more than 6790's 40 TMU's.
All of the other specs are shockingly similar, with only 5% difference in core and memory clock speeds. Both the 5830 and 6790 have the same "alleged 256-bit bus".
In spite of the whopping 40% shader and TMU difference, the 6790 comes SO close to the 5830--close enough that it's only possible if the 800sp were VLIW4 (multiply it by 5/4 and you get performance like 1000sp). It would only make sense there, as 1000sp is about 10% less than 1120sp, but with 5% higher clock, it comes to within 2-3% of 5830's performance.
If not for VLIW4, what would it be? Tell me. Reply
BoFox - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkTypo: I forgot to add "if it weren't for VLIW4" before the second sentence above. Sorry if it's confusing.
Shouldn't we all already know that Barts XT was of the Northern Islands VLIW4 architecture from how close it was to the 5870 (1120sp vs 1600sp which is 43% higher)? Even after adjusting for the clock differences, the shader/TMU operations per second is still 35% higher for the 5870, yet the 5870 turned out to be only 9% faster overall. It would've made perfect sense if Barts XT had 1400 VLIW5 shaders (using the 5:4 ratio over 1120sp).
Using the math: 1600sp x 850Mhz is ... 8% faster than 1400sp x 900MHz. The memory bandwidth does not affect the performance too much since the proportion of bandwidth to GPU muscle is not changed by much. So, it's really close to the overall 9% actual performance difference between 5870 and 6870. Is that coincidental? The reason the difference is actually greater than the calculation is because 1120sp VLIW4 does not exactly translate to 1400sp VLIW5. VLIW4 is not perfectly efficient as to scale 100% at a 5/4 ratio, but it's pretty close.
What else would it be, sincerely? Reply
Amoro - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkI'm pretty sure that only Cayman is VLIW4. Reply
Ryan Smith - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkCorrect. NI is a very broad family; it doesn't definite a single architecture. Cayman is VLIW4, Barts, Turks, and Caicos are VLIW5 and are basically optimized versions of Evergreen (5000 series) hardware.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3987/amds-radeon-687... Reply
Amoro - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkIf you look at some of the raw performance specifications for the two cards it seems to indicate that texture fillrate and raw processing power don't have as much of an impact on Anandtech's testing suite.
Radeon HD 5830
Memory Bandwidth
Radeon HD 6790
Memory Bandwidth
The 6790 wins in pixel fillrate and memory bandwidth but loses horribly in raw processing power and texture fillrate yet it still manages to keep within -10% and even manages to beat the 5830 in some cases. Reply
BoFox - Wednesday, April 06, 2011 - linkThanks for some more of those numbers!
We can see that the 5830 has far higher numbers in these areas:
44.8 GT/s
1790 GFLOPs
And the 6790 has only
33.6 GT/s
1344 GFLOPs
While the 6790 has greater pixel fillrate and memory bandwidth than the 5830.
If it were not for VLIW4, why is the 5830 only 2-3% faster than 6790 in this review here, if you look at all of the benchmarks? Why?
Another way we could find out is to see how much it affects DP performance in applications like Milkyway@home. Cards with VLIW4 should have 1/4 the FP64 output ratio to FP32 output, so I wouldn't be surprised if we see 6790's being 20% faster than the similarly spec'ed 4890. Reply
BoFox - Thursday, April 07, 2011 - linkAhh, your article reminded me that FP64 was disabled for Barts GPUs.. I must've forgot about it and wanted to test it to prove that it's VLIW4.
But the numbers in the replies below strongly point to the 6790 being boosted by VLIW4 in order to basically match up to a 5830 with 40% more shaders and TMU's.
Any explanation for this, sir Ryan? Reply
BoFox - Friday, April 08, 2011 - linkRE: "From a graphics point of view it's not possible to separate the performance of the ROPs from memory bandwidth. Color fill, etc are equally impacted by both. To analyze bandwidth you'd have to work from a compute point of view. However with that said I don't have any reason to believe AMD doesn't have a 256-bit; achieving identical performance with half the L2 cache will be harder though."
1) If it's not possible to separate the performance from a "graphics" rather than "compute" point of view, then should not the performance be linked for all "graphics" point of views (as it is a "graphics" card to begin with)? Even the "compute" applications (FP16 and FP32 analysis at http://www.behardware.com/articles/783- ... -5830.html ) show the card to behave like as if it's 128-bit.
2) Why does Ryan not have any reason to believe.. because AMD said so? If a manufacturer of a LCD panel advertises 1ms G2G response time, but it looks like 16ms, does he still have no reason to believe it's 16ms just because the manufacturer said so?
3) If the L2 cache is cut down in proportion with the castrated shaders/TMUs/ROPs, then it should not affect performance, let alone "harder though". Reply
Soldier1969 - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - link2 x 6970s FTW at 2560 x 1600 res. Reply
JimmiG - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkIs it just me or is all this talk about price difference of $10 or less getting a little ridiculous? I mean, if you're prepared to spend $150 (or $160...) on something that is completely non-essential, what difference is $10 going to make? If you're so poor that $10 is a big deal, you're probably not spending your money on gaming products anyway since you need everything for stuff like food and rent.
It seems the video card companies are the guilty ones, constantly trying to outmaneuver each other with new pricing schemes. I miss the old days when there was one $100 card, one $200 card, one $300 card etc. Now there can easily be a dozen different models in the range of $100 - $300. Reply
liveonc - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkThis looks like a prime candidate for a mini-ITX for those who'd want a desktop replacement, but don't want to pay so damn much for something that has 30minutes of battery life, doesn't have a chance to outperform a desktop, & costs too much. Reply
lorribot - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkMight be just me but since the 4000 series i dont actually understand AMDs numbering scheme anymore.
There seem to be a great variety of of 6000 cards all with very similar performance and different prices.
There is the 6990 at the top then a couple more 69xx cards then some 68xx and some 67xx, all well and good but it seems the 5870 is faster card then the 6870, which is odd and not what i would have expected, indeed it has similar performance to the 5850.
The 5xxx series came in 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58 and 59 flavours with one, two or three sub versions in each band giving something like 15 or 16 different cards.
It seems to me that with so many variations and a numbering scheme that seems to change from version to version AMD seem to actually want to confuse the buying public.
They really need to get a handle on this, less is more in some cases.
Nvidia's numbering scheme on the whole seems to be much more sensible in recent times, apart from the odd hiccup with 460 and 465. Reply
Belard - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkActually - AMD's 3000~5000 have been rather consistent. The 6000s is kind of like the 2000s. They should have stuck with the 3-5 series, everything would have made more sense.
So that the 6850 should have been the 6750 since its not really better than an actual 5850. They said they did this to not cause confusion with the 5700 series which was not to be replaced - but INSTEAD ended up being relabeled into the 6600~6700s for the OEM market. The new "AMD" GPU first step with their branded was stupid and confusing. Not impressed.
Nvidia? Those nut-jobs are master at confusion.
GTX / GT / GTS are meaningless, especially in front of a model number. Seriously, to say "GeForce GTX 550 Ti" is plain stupid. "GeForce 550" is all that is needed or "Geforce 5 GTX, Geforce 5 GT etc".
Are there GF GTX 560 and a GF GT 560 and a GF GTS 560? Uh, no.
What happen to the Geforce 300 series? Oh yeah - OEM relabeled bottom end GF200 series. They skipped into the 400 series. Then there is the GF465 and GF 465 768MB... which is more than JUST a memory difference. They should have called it the 465 (with 1GB) and 460 (with 768) since there is ALWAYS a performance hit with the 768mb version of the card.
Then Nvidia brings back the "TI" tag to remind us OLD TIMERS of the days of excellent GF4000 series... which is idiotic as hell.
What?! Is there a GF 550 and a GF 550TI? Screw that, I want the NON TI version because its faster. Oh yeah, its just a few letters suck on the end that are meaningless.
The GF 500 series is the exact same tech as the GF400 series, but fully functional. ie: fixed. But calling them the 500 series makes them look better / newer.
I expect Nvidia to have the "GeForce GTX 785 TI Ultra" on the market around March 2012. Reply
kedesh - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkmy question is, can i crossfire this card up with my current one (5750)? consitering i have the correct motherboard? no where on the internet can i find an answer. Reply
WhatsTheDifference - Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - linkis the 4890 excluded from ALL benchies? the problem is...? ban the 285 from just one article and we'll witness just exactly what?
thanks. Reply
Lex Luger - Thursday, April 07, 2011 - linkThere hasnt been much improvement with video cards since the 90 nm 8800 GTX and GTS.
Those were probalby the greatest cards ever in terms of performance boost vs the previous generation. Reply
slickr - Thursday, April 07, 2011 - linkWhat is the point testing a mediocre graphic card at 1600 and higher resolutions?
Most people are going to be playing at lower resolutions with that graphic card and their PC's are certainly not Core I 950 with 12GB ram, so they would be playing at resolutions of 1200x1024 or 1400x1050.
I mean we need more realistic representation of these cards and not some scenario that would never happen. Reply
shady28 - Friday, April 08, 2011 - link
Seems GPUs are dead on the PC until and unless something that can actually use them comes along.
I agree with a previous poster - the 8800GT / GTS series was 'good enough'. There are only a handfull of games that really need anything more, so now all these cards are relegated to a niche market.
Now tablet GPUs, that's a different story, but people are still mostly developing for the lowest common denominator there too. Reply
IloveCharleneChoi - Friday, April 08, 2011 - linkI don't care more about HD6790 and 550TI,The cards new released are usually expensive . hd6850 here is less than $150 in Nanjing,China.HD6850 can do better than GTX460 in many games,and of course it can beat 6790 or 550TI.SO WHY CHOOSE 6790? Reply
iamezza - Sunday, April 10, 2011 - linkThanks Ryan for another great article :)
I can't believe all the fruit loops posting in the comments here! Reply
thenemesis2 - Monday, October 03, 2011 - linkI this the best card for mild gaming on a Shuttle SandyBridge box with only one 6 pci-e connector and 300w psu? Reply


text:
"The cross is the door to mysteries. Through this door the intellect makes entrance into the knowledge of heavenly mysteries."—St. Isaac of Syria
"Society is corrupted precisely through the want of Christian education." —St. John of Kronstadt
A primary Orthodox parochial grade school, St. Isaac's Orthodox School began its classes in September 1994, at that time offering 1st and 2nd grades, and completed that eight year course at graduation in June 2003. The school has a unique integrated approach and curriculum which attempts to bring to educational philosophy a unified Orthodox Christian perspective that is comprehensive, non-fragmented, hierarchical, and personal.
Described by the consensus of the Saints as the "mind of the Church," this unified perspective brings both teachers and students into a different life and faith, as the Holy Trinity reveals itself in this world. Not merely "regular" school with religion classes added—every subject: i.e., history, science, math, art, English, literature, spelling, geography, civics, music, health, handiwork, Slavonic and Greek are consciously brought back to this unified Orthodox perspective of all nature, history, and philosophy.
We live in a world of moral decay, shifting values, relativism of beliefs and creeds that teach a politically correct view of a non-critical tolerance of untruth, self-centeredness, and a disbelief in the true faith—a faith worth dying for, the faith of the martyrs, the faith of our Fathers, the unchanging Holy Orthodox Faith. What can we as Orthodox Christians do? How can we, and more especially our children, escape from a way of life based on the serpent's ever present lie that says self-centered individualism is good, that the center of man is in his personal thoughts and feelings, and that if we trust ourselves we "...won't die the death...?" The fruit of disobedience, of personal opinion, only looks good, but it is filled with bittersweet sin, deformity and death. From Eve's tragic mistake let us learn to repent, to change, to see as the Holy Saints saw this passing world in the light of the unfading truth and the luminescent reality of eternal Pascha, the Pascha of the Lord.
Without attention, training, and vigilant effort in making this unchanging truth as God sees and reveals it our own—this living out of "correct belief" and "correct worship" which is our Holy Orthodox Faith—we will slide down the broad and well-worn path leading to Hell: the life of unrepentant, self-centered individualism frozen into tortured eternity. May we and our children escape such a self-inflicted state!
Orthodox Christian education is the main lesson of our life, a life designed to wake us up from believing that fallen human nature is normal and acceptable. Orthodox education is not just academic and theoretical, but deeply personal and practical, to effect a change of perspective and values to live in the Heaven of God's loving presence, both here and in the age to come. Orthodox education is life, our life, that we must live every day, for as St. Isaac so wisely said, "this life has been given to you for repentance, do not waste it in vain pursuits."
"It should be placed as an unfailing law that every kind of learning which is taught to a Christian should be penetrated with Christian principles, more precisely, Orthodox ones. Christian principles are true beyond doubt. Therefore, without any doubting, make them the general measuring stick of truth."—St. Theophan the Recluse
The present need for Orthodox curriculum materials is vital today because of the serious degeneration of secular education, and the preponderance of evangelical Protestant materials filling the void in "Christian" homeschooling effort. We must turn away from these un-Orthodox concepts, and embrace the ancient unchanging view which has fed each generation of the faithful since the Apostolic age. We therefore are developing the fully Orthodox curriculum and materials to fill this void, and to call each aspect back to the "mind of the Fathers"—the living tradition of our Orthodox Faith, with nothing in confusion or contradiction. The process is long, and the laborers are few, so pray that this holy work can be completed soon.
"The task of every teacher is to give to his children a defined, permanent, stable foundation, on which he can in the future build a strong structure, a wise understanding of life. Contemporary schooling gives no knowledge of the will of the living God, it gives no understanding of how to live by faith and do good. It gives no answer to the basic question of the world concerning what is truth, no answer to the urgent, vital question of how to live. Not the quantity, but the soundness of what is learned is important. One should teach only what could become a true part of oneself: that which can be fashioned usefully by the soul, mind and heart, not just the memory."—St. John of Kronstadt


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After nearly two years of uncertainty about the College of Santa Fe, we woke up on the morning of Thursday, July 30 to a full class schedule and open registration on the CSF website. We also woke up with a 26-year lease deal with Laureate Education, Inc.
She's cute and she's got some nice assets, but she's still a stranger. Oh my god, what happened last night? Did I buy you a $30 million drink?
The number of people who are happy with the outcome are countered by a significant number of folks who believe the city found a cheap floozy. Here's what went down and what happens next:
On Wednesday, July 29, the Santa Fe City Council voted to both purchase the campus and to lease 61 acres of it to Laureate, thus ensuring a fall semester beginning this September.
The council's deliberations lasted more than four hours, but it was a charade. The "public comment" really began with "public official comment": Gov. Bill Richardson, Santa Fe democrats Speaker of the House Ben Luján Sr., Reps. Luciano "Lucky" Varela and Brian Egolf, and Sen. Peter Wirth, as well as a generally star-studded cast of luminaries, all pressured the council to "do the right thing" and keep a college in the heart of Santa Fe.
Honestly, it was a more persuasive courtship than the council could resist: The following three hours of public input and council debate was just playing hard to get with a foregone conclusion.
Many people told the council they would be grateful for a courageous vote to "save the college." Only one woman, who opposed the deal, pointed out the truth: A vote in opposition would have been a much braver move. It also would have been foolish. Everyone wishes the state had solved this problem for us, but that didn't happen and the economic and cultural value of a campus in the center of town is too great to surrender on an ignorant vote.
But there was startling logic at work among the councilors. Many believe that Councilors Carmichael Dominguez and Ronald Trujillo were persuaded by Santa Fe Community College President Sheila Ortego (Trujillo said as much). They weren't, however, swayed by Ortego's adamant support of the Laureate deal but, rather, by the notion that she may be able to place an outpost of SFCC on the CSF campus and create a "Higher Learning Center" that would offer non-arts related education siphoned largely from state university programs.
There's nothing wrong with Ortego's plan—it's a good one and it deserves to move forward—but it's currently an ephemeral plan and only tangentially related to the issues on the table. To vote in favor of borrowing $30 million for the purchase of a huge campus and in favor of leasing 61 acres of that campus to a for-profit college corporation because of what might eventually happen on a couple of other acres is a rationalization that borders on the insane.
But then they were looking for rationalization to do what we knew they would. Councilor Patti Bushee managed to be the most stubborn—she voted in favor of leasing the property to Laureate but then against acquiring the property. Perhaps she was trying to construct a philosophical puzzle, but it came across as empty saber rattling in preparation for the mayoral campaign she swears she won't launch. But if the people were simply to demand this one final service from her…well.
After the theatrics we now stare at Laureate in the crisp morning light and think, "Floozy or no, this is a long-term relationship."
The community demanded that a college continue to exist and now it will be the community's job to hold Laureate to its promise to be a "good corporate citizen." A good college with a good presence in the community can't be enforced by the council trying to dictate the minutiae of what uses will be permitted on the campus or how the college should engage with area public schools. Those are organic negotiations that can only benefit from the absence of city politics.
It will be the community's job (and that of the press) to watchdog Laureate on several key issues that remain unanswered questions:
What administrative personnel decisions does it make both short and long-term?
How does it hold to its commitment to restore key programs that will be missing this fall, such as contemporary music and documentary studies?
Will Laureate follow through with establishing a local advisory board? If so, will the board have real influence?
When the city and state consider master-planning efforts for their portions of the property, how proactive and engaged will Laureate be? How sensitive to the community's and the neighborhood's concerns?
Will a real arts program be developed or will things be pushed steadily toward "applied" and vocational tracks?
But it's early. We've only just woken up. It was a long night and neither one of us looks our best. Let's get some breakfast and maybe kick it in the park. There's time to learn about each other and eventually find answers to all those niggling questions.
Who knows? This long-term relationship could be hot.


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Religion & Spirituality, ChristianityFollow
|Religion & Spirituality
One year. Every day. 365 days through the Bible in community with tens of thousands of others around the globe following the same quest. Hand crafted daily from the rolling hills of Tennessee, Nashville based author and speaker Brian Hardin is your guide on the adventure of a lifetime. Visit us on the web at www.dailyaudiobible.com A YEAR CHANGES EVERYTHING!
January 17th, 2016
Episode 849 of 1513 episodes
Gen 35:1-36:43, Matt 12:1-21, Ps 15:1-5, Pr 3:21-26
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Welcome to the Brain Training Podcast, the daily audio workout for your head. In this podcast we have two games for you, each with three rounds which get progressively harder. To enjoy the full experience, relax, and avoid distractions whilst you listen.


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