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T A S M A N I A LAW REFORM I N S T I T U T E. The Legal Issues Relating to Same-Sex Marriage
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1 T A S M A N I A LAW REFORM I N S T I T U T E The Legal Issues Relating to Same-Sex Marriage RESEARCH PAPER NO. 3 OCTOBER 2013
4 CONTENTS Part 1: Introduction About this discussion paper General concerns Outline of the paper Sources of law in Australia International law and human rights... 5 Statutory interpretation... 5 Part 2: Relationships and Australian Law What are the differences in the way marriage and same- sex relationships are currently recognised?... 7 What is marriage?... 7 What is a de facto relationship?... 8 What is a Deed of Relationship? Ending relationships Summary: differences in recognition Does the Commonwealth Parliament have the power to make laws for same- sex marriage? Interpreting the word marriage in the Constitution Summary: the meaning of marriage in the Constitution The Commonwealth and international law Is holding a referendum the best way to resolve the issue? Does the Commonwealth have the ability to prevent the recognition of same- sex marriage in state legislation? Can Tasmania legislate for same- sex marriage? What is the scope of the Marriage Act? Direct inconsistency Indirect inconsistency Arguments about inconsistency iii
5 Commentary on the arguments about inconsistency Summary: can Tasmania legislate for same- sex marriage? What would be the consequences if a Tasmanian same- sex marriage law came into force but was later invalidated? The effect of invalidation on same- sex marriages solemnised under state law The effect of invalidation on court decisions made under the state law Summary: the consequences of a same- sex marriage law being invalidated in future Which jurisdiction would deal with the breakdown of a same- sex marriage? How would the Commonwealth deal with the breakdown of a same- sex marriage? How would Tasmania deal with the breakdown of a same- sex marriage? Summary: which jurisdiction would deal with the breakdown of a same- sex marriage? Could same- sex marriages be recognised or dissolved outside of Tasmania? What does conflict of laws mean? Section 5 of the Bill How will same- sex marriages be treated outside Tasmania? Can a same- sex marriage be dissolved for couples who live outside Tasmania? What does ordinarily resident mean? Can courts in other states apply the laws of Tasmania? How would interstate and Commonwealth courts enforce judgments made in Tasmania relating to same- sex marriages? Discrimination as between states Summary: recognition and dissolution outside of Tasmania Would a same- sex marriage law encourage or lead to the sanctioning of polygamous marriages? iv
6 Deeds of Relationship and same- sex marriages Why polygamy and multiple relationships are unlikely to receive further recognition in Australia Summary If a law has the potential to be challenged in court, should it be passed? Plain packaging tobacco laws Water management laws Tobacco tax laws Exclusion of judicial review laws Who would have standing to bring an action to challenge a Tasmanian same- sex marriage law in the High Court? Standing and matters Summary: standing to challenge a Tasmanian law What would it cost Tasmania if its same- sex marriage laws were challenged in the High Court? Part 3: Same- Sex Marriage in Other Jurisdictions Have same- sex marriage laws been enacted in overseas jurisdictions? United Kingdom Canada United States of America Spain France Argentina New Zealand Other Jurisdictions Concluding Remarks v
7 Information on the Tasmania Law Reform Institute The Tasmania Law Reform Institute (the Institute) was established on 23 July 2001 by agreement between the Government of the State of Tasmania, the University of Tasmania and The Law Society of Tasmania. The creation of the Institute was part of a Partnership Agreement between the University and the State Government signed in The Institute is based at the Sandy Bay campus of the University of Tasmania within the Faculty of Law. The Institute undertakes law reform work and research on topics proposed by the Government, the community, the University and the Institute itself. The Institute s Director is Professor Kate Warner of the University of Tasmania. The current members of the Board of the Institute are Professor Kate Warner (Chair), Professor Margaret Otlowski (Dean of the Faculty of Law at the University of Tasmania), the Honourable Justice S Estcourt (appointed by the Honourable Chief Justice of Tasmania), Mr Simon Overland (appointed by the Attorney-General), Mr Rohan Foon and Ms Kim Baumeler (appointed by the Law Society), Ms Terese Henning (appointed by the Council of the University), Mr Craig Mackie (nominated by the Tasmanian Bar Association) and Ms Ann Hughes (community representative). The Honourable Chief Justice AM Blow OAM was the former Chief Justice s appointee during the lifetime of this project. Contact information: Tasmania Law Reform Institute Private Bag 89, Hobart, TAS Australia, Telephone: (03) Fax: (03) This report is available on the Institute s webpage at: ww.law.utas.edu.au/reform vi
8 Acknowledgments This research paper was prepared for the Board by Amelia Higgs. The following individuals provided feedback on various drafts of the paper; Professor George Williams AO (Anthony Mason Professor of Law and Foundation Director of the Gilbert + Tobin Centre of Public Law at the University of New South Wales), Mr Leigh Sealy SC (Solicitor-General for Tasmania), Mr Michael Stokes (Senior Lecturer in Constitutional Law UTAS) and Dr Brendan Gogarty (Lecturer in Constitutional Law UTAS). Their generous assistance should not to be interpreted, however, as a personal endorsement of statements contained in the final version of the Paper. The Institute would also like to thank Rodney Croome (National Director of Australian Marriage Equality) for clarification of aspects of some of the arguments and suggestions as to their presentation. Finally, the Institute thanks Bruce Newey for proofing and editing the Paper. vii
10 Part 1 Introduction 1.1 About this discussion paper This paper examines the issues arising in relation to a state-based samesex marriage scheme. The objective of this discussion paper is not to draw conclusions or to provide recommendations; it is simply to provide a comprehensive guide to both sides of the debate, to allow the reader to appreciate more fully the legal arguments in relation to same-sex marriage Same-sex marriage is a topical issue in Australian politics and in society more generally at both a state and Commonwealth level. In 2012, an unsuccessful attempt was made to pass a Tasmanian same-sex marriage law. Other Australian states are also in the process of debating same-sex marriage laws. State-based initiatives raise legal questions about the capacity of the states to legislate for same-sex marriage, and the consequences which may follow if such laws are enacted. The legal questions emerged as major concerns for Tasmanian parliamentarians during the 2012 Same-Sex Marriage Bill debate. This paper aims to address these concerns. 1.2 General concerns The issues and concerns raised by the Tasmanian Legislative Councillors in response to the Same-Sex Marriage Bill provide the starting point for this paper. Among the concerns voiced were: 1 That marriage is a topic that should be dealt with by the Commonwealth Parliament. Some members suggested that a national referendum is the only way to measure public opinion properly and to determine whether a change to existing laws should be made. That the Tasmanian Same-Sex Marriage Bill, if passed, would be unconstitutional. Advice from academics, practitioners and the Solicitor 1 Tasmania, Parliamentary Debates, Legislative Council, September
11 Research Paper No. 3: Legal Issues Relating to Same Sex Marriage General could not provide a definitive prediction of whether the Tasmanian Bill would be valid. The likelihood of the Tasmanian Same-Sex Marriage Bill, if passed, being challenged in the High Court. Uncertainty about the parties who would have standing to make such a challenge was also a concern. The costs of defending a challenge in the High Court. Members quoted figures between $50,000 and $1.2 million as the potential cost. The uncertainty of the cost, coupled with the uncertainty of success in a High Court challenge was a significant factor in many of the dissenting members speeches. That same-sex marriages entered into in Tasmania would not be recognised as valid marriages in other states or under Commonwealth laws. That a same-sex marriage law would not achieve true legal equality for same-sex couples. 1.3 Outline of the paper The issues relating to state-based same-sex marriage are framed as a series of questions. The paper deals with each of these questions in turn, first by offering some explanatory context and then by providing a detailed assessment of the merits of competing arguments about how the issues might be resolved Many of the issues involved in this debate rely on complex legal principles. In writing this paper, attempts have been made to simplify the material as much as possible, while still retaining the integrity of the legal arguments. Where the discussion is particularly long or complicated, you will see overview and definition boxes, which are intended to provide simplified statements of the issues at hand The 2012 Same-Sex Marriage Bill will be considered in some detail. However, this paper is intended to have a broader application than the analysis of the 2012 iteration, as any future bills on this topic may encounter new and different challenges. Discussion of the 2012 Bill is therefore intended to highlight the legal hurdles it faced and suggest ways in which these difficulties might be avoided in future versions. The issues which will be covered in Part 2 are as follows: 2
12 Part 1: Introduction 1. What are the differences in the way marriage and same-sex relationships are currently recognised? 2. Does the Commonwealth government have the power to make laws for same-sex marriage? 3. Can Tasmania legislate for same-sex marriage? 4. What would be the consequences if a Tasmanian same-sex marriage law came into force but was later invalidated? 5. Which jurisdiction would deal with the breakdown of a same-sex marriage? 6. Could same-sex marriages be recognised or dissolved outside of Tasmania? 7. Would a same-sex marriage law encourage or lead to the sanctioning of polygamous marriages? 8. If a law has the potential to be challenged in court, should it be passed? 9. Who would have standing to bring an action to challenge a Tasmanian same-sex marriage law in the High Court? 10. What would it cost Tasmania if its same-sex marriage laws were challenged in the High Court? 11. Have same-sex marriage laws been enacted in overseas jurisdictions? 1.4 Sources of law in Australia Overview At the outset, it is important to be aware of the different sources of law in Australia and how they interact. An understanding of their combined operation is critical in resolving the legal issues surrounding same-sex marriage legislation, particularly in relation to the interpretation of the Constitution and the Marriage Act 1961 (Cth). This section identifies the different sources of Australian laws Australia is a common law jurisdiction, meaning that the legal system is based on decisions and legal principles developed by the courts over a long period of time. Our system of laws is derived from the United Kingdom, arriving as it did with the first British settlers. Over time, the laws developed independently to suit the needs of the Australian culture, but the ways in which we make, develop and apply law still bear similarities with the UK and other common law countries (such as Canada, Singapore and New Zealand). Modern 3
13 Research Paper No. 3: Legal Issues Relating to Same Sex Marriage Australian law derives from of a number of different sources operating in conjunction to create a legal system. As each jurisdiction is a separate legislative zone, there is often no uniformity in state and territory laws. This is particularly important in relation to private international law, which will be discussed below The Commonwealth Constitution establishes the Federal Parliament, the Federal Executive and the High Court and sets out their respective powers, roles and functions. 3 All activities undertaken by these bodies are governed by the rules of the Constitution. A particular concern of the colonial leaders during the drafting of the Constitution was to ensure that each state should not lose too much of its autonomy or power to the central government. In s 51, the Constitution enumerates the topics over which the Commonwealth Parliament has the power to make laws. Hence, these are sometimes called enumerated powers. However, the Commonwealth must share these powers with the states, so they are sometimes also referred to as concurrent powers. Any powers which are not listed in the Constitution remain with the states, and are referred to as residual powers. Arguably, over time the powers enumerated in the Constitution have been interpreted in a way that has seen more authority ceded to the Commonwealth than was intended in 1901, however the Federal Parliament s power to enact legislation is still limited by the words and phrases in the Constitution Legislation is the written law created by the state and Commonwealth Parliaments. Where a state law is inconsistent with a valid Commonwealth law, the state law will be invalid to the extent of that inconsistency. 4 This rule has significant impact on the same-sex marriage debate, and will be discussed in detail below Common law consists of laws which are not set out in legislation, but which have been developed over time by decisions of the courts. For example, prior to the insertion of a definition of marriage in the Marriage Act, the common law definition, derived from an old UK case, 5 applied. Common law is developed and administered by the courts. The courts are bound by the doctrine Private international law is also known as conflict of laws. It is the law which is used to resolve disputes where the law of more than one place is involved. Private international law concerns private parties people and companies as opposed to international law which concerns relations between countries. For a more in-depth discussion of private international law, see topic 6. Australian Constitution ( Constitution ). Ibid s 109. See Hyde v Hyde and Woodmansee (1886) LR 1 P & D
14 Part 1: Introduction of precedent, which requires a court to adhere to previous decisions of superior courts. 6 This ensures that there is consistency and predictability in the common law, while still allowing the court to develop and adapt the law to suit changing social and cultural needs The common law continues to apply even once legislation is in place, unless the legislation in question explicitly overrides the corresponding common law rule. In this way, the common law exists in conjunction with statute law. Sometimes statute law explicitly provides that the common law still applies where appropriate. 7 Many pieces of legislation simply codify the common law, such as s 5 of the Marriage Act which codifies the common law definition of marriage. This too will be discussed in more detail below. 1.5 International law and human rights International law and human rights also contribute to Australia s legal system, although there remains much debate about the extent to which international obligations are, or should, be upheld within Australia. When the government signs an international agreement with other countries, that agreement does not automatically come into force in Australia. It will only come into force once the Federal Parliament passes legislation incorporating the international agreement into domestic law. This type of activity is authorised by s 51(xxix) of the Constitution, which allows the Federal Parliament to make laws with respect to external affairs. The Federal Parliament has justified its activities on a number of occasions by linking them to the external affairs power. Statutory interpretation When a court is required to interpret legislation, it will look to the words of the statute and, in certain circumstances, extrinsic material such as second reading speeches. The court will often also give regard to the principle of legality. This means that courts will not resolve semantic uncertainty in a statute in a way which erodes or encroaches upon human rights unless the text of the 6 7 In order of least to most superior, the hierarchy of courts in Tasmania is: Magistrate s Court; Supreme Court; High Court. For example, s 8 of the Criminal Code Act 1924 (Tas) states: All rules and principles of the common law which render any circumstances a justification or excuse for any act or omission, or a defence to a charge upon indictment, shall remain in force and apply to any defence to a charge upon indictment, except in so far as they are altered by, or are inconsistent with, the Code. 5
15 Research Paper No. 3: Legal Issues Relating to Same Sex Marriage legislation clearly and unambiguously requires this. 8 It must be clear that Parliament intended to enact the legislation with conscious awareness of the derogation from human rights that it effects, before the court will allow such an interpretation. It should be noted that Australia is the only western democratic country which does not have a bill or charter of rights. In other countries which do have a bill or charter of rights, the courts and legislators are required, in most circumstances, to take the provisions of that bill or charter into account when making and interpreting legislation. 8 Plaintiff S157/2002 v Commonwealth (2003) 211 CLR 476, [30]. 6
16 Part 2 Relationships and Australian Law 2.1 What are the differences in the way marriage and same-sex relationships are currently recognised? Overview An appreciation of the legal differences between marriage and other unions is important in understanding the context in which the debate about marriage equality has arisen. This section discusses the types of relationships that currently are accorded legal recognition in Australia and outlines the similarities and differences between them. What is marriage? Marriage is governed by the Commonwealth Marriage Act 1961, which defines marriage as the union of a man and a woman to the exclusion of all others, voluntarily entered into for life. 9 The Constitution endows the Commonwealth with the power to make laws for marriage, but this power is shared with the states. A valid marriage ceremony requires the exchange of words or vows or participation in a recognised religious rite before an authorised celebrant and in the presence of witnesses. 10 The parties to the marriage must also sign a marriage certificate in the approved form Marriage Act 1961 (Cth) s 5 ( Marriage Act ). Ibid ss Ibid s 50. 7
17 Research Paper No. 3: Legal Issues Relating to Same Sex Marriage Parties to a marriage receive automatic recognition that a legal relationship between them exists, which is important in relation to other areas of law such as taxation, superannuation, welfare, immigration and succession. Being married also means that in order to be divorced, parties must go through a regulated process which attracts formal rules for the dissolution of the relationship. Note that a divorce application, however, is not necessary for the court to be engaged for the purposes of the division of assets and the parenting and maintenance of children of the marriage. What is a de facto relationship? A de facto relationship is one in which the couple is not married, but the circumstances of their relationship are otherwise identical or at least very similar to marriage. The expression de facto marriage was originally used to distinguish such relationships from legal (or de jure ) marriages. The Constitution does not grant power over de facto relationships to the Commonwealth so it is left to the states to make laws for de facto relationships, and indeed formal recognition of de facto relationships, firstly for opposite-sex couples and later for same-sex couples, began at a state level. However, between 2000 and 2010 each state other than Western Australia conferred power on the Commonwealth to make laws for certain financial matters arising out of the breakdown of de facto relationships. 12 The Commonwealth Parliament then used this transfer of power to amend the Family Law Act so that as of 2009 it is now able to deal with property, finance and children s matters in relation to de facto relationships De facto relationships technically no longer exist in Tasmania, 14 as they are now referred to as significant relationships by the Relationships Act 2003 (Tas). 15 However, while the technical name for the relationship has been changed, the factors used at a state level to indicate the existence of the relationship remain very similar, if not identical to the factors used in Commonwealth law. 16 Furthermore, despite the change of terminology in Commonwealth Powers (De Facto Relationships) Act 2006 (Tas) ( Commonwealth Powers Act ). Family Law Act 1975 (Cth) Part VIIIAB ( Family Law Act ). Other States have also changed the terminology used to describe this kind of relationship, for example in Victoria they are called Domestic Relationships and in the ACT and South Australia they are called Domestic Partnerships. Relationships Act 2003 (Tas) s 4 ( Relationships Act ). Compare s 4 of the Relationships Act with s 4AA of the Family Law Act. 8
18 Part 2: Relationships and Australian Law Tasmanian law, it is still common practice to refer to such relationships as de facto relationships. Finally, when these relationships are dealt with in the federal sphere, for example by the Family Court of Australia, they are referred to as de facto relationships because that is the term adopted in Commonwealth law. The Relationships Act is discussed further below at At a Commonwealth level, de facto relationships are dealt with in the Family Law Act 1975, which lists a number of different factors a court may take into account when determining if a de facto relationship exists. 17 These factors are not essential to the existence of a de facto relationship, but are very helpful indicators. De facto relationships do not necessarily have a starting point, or a date at which it can be said with certainty that the relationship came into being, unlike marriage or registered relationships. A relationship may be considered de facto even though the parties do not recognise it as such. As long as it can be said that the relationship is seen by the law as being a de facto relationship, it will be treated as such by the law. It should be noted that both opposite-sex and same-sex relationships can be de facto relationships under the Family Law Act The provisions in the Family Law Act which govern financial matters arising from de facto relationships can only have effect on the relationship once it breaks down. Accordingly, there is usually no need for the Family Court to declare the existence of a relationship until it no longer exists. Declarations are therefore made retrospectively With the exception of the regulation of financial matters arising from the breakdown of a relationship, making laws for de facto relationships remains the domain of the states. Therefore, the formalisation of de facto relationships occurs at a state level. 18 However, recognition is also provided by federal legislation. Commonwealth laws have been amended in the last decade to remove discrimination on the basis of gender, sexuality and marital status. This means that married and de facto relationships, whether registered or unregistered, now receive the same treatment under those laws. The Same-Sex Relationships (Equal Treatment in Commonwealth Laws General Law Reform) Act 2008 (Cth) amended a slew of Commonwealth laws to remove discrimination against same-sex couples. Words such as husband, wife, widow and widower were replaced with spouse, de facto partner and remaining spouse/de facto partner. This means that de facto couples, both Family Law Act s 4AA. As noted above, de facto relationships are now regulated in Tasmania by the Relationships Act and are called significant relationships. The factors used in s 4(a) of that Act to determine the existence of a significant relationship are very similar, if not identical, to the factors used in s 4AA of the federal Family Law Act to determine the existence of a de facto relationship. 9
19 Research Paper No. 3: Legal Issues Relating to Same Sex Marriage same-sex and opposite-sex, have the same rights and obligations under Commonwealth laws as married couples. 19 The Acts Interpretation Act ensures that all statutes which make mention of de facto relationships are interpreted in accordance with the Family Law Act. 20 What is a Deed of Relationship? Tasmania was the first state to provide a legislative scheme under which couples could register a non-married relationship. Similar schemes have now been adopted in a majority of Australian states, which provide for mutual recognition of registered relationships regardless of the jurisdiction in which they are registered. The Relationships Act 2003 (Tas) ( Relationships Act ) is an Act of the Tasmanian Parliament which allows unmarried couples, both samesex and opposite-sex, to register a Deed of Relationship granting formal and certain recognition of the existence of the relationship. 21 State government and non-government bodies are obliged to recognise Deeds of Relationship as are Commonwealth government bodies Couples can register a Deed of Relationship, for either a significant or a caring 22 relationship. 23 When entering a Deed of Relationship for a significant relationship, there is no obligation on the parties to prove that a significant relationship already exists. This is similar to marriage, where there is no obligation for the parties to show that a relationship has existed prior to the marriage being entered into A significant relationship is a sexual relationship between two adults either of different sexes, or of the same sex. Both significant and caring relationships can exist without being formalised by a Deed of Relationship. Couples seeking to register a Deed of Relationship must not be married and cannot be in an existing registered relationship. People in a caring relationship The Same-Sex Relationships (Equal Treatment in Commonwealth Laws General Law Reform) Act 2008 amends a wide variety of Commonwealth laws to remove discrimination on the grounds of sexuality. Examples include, the Age Discrimination Act 2004, the Defence Force (Home Loans Assistance) Act 1990, the A New Tax System (Family Assistance) Act 1999, the Australian Citizenship Act 2007, the Income Tax Assessment Act 1997 and the Life Insurance Act Acts Interpretation Act 1901(Cth) s 2F. Relationships Act s 11. A caring relationship is a non-couple companionate interdependent close personal relationship. Relationships Act s 11 10
20 Part 2: Relationships and Australian Law may be familially related but those in a significant relationship may not be. 24 Once a Deed of Relationship has been registered, it becomes proof of the existence of a significant relationship. As noted earlier, the factors which are indicative of a significant relationship are very similar to those used to determine the existence of a de facto relationship for financial purposes under the Family Law Act. Accordingly, couples that register a Deed of Relationship under the Relationships Act are likely to be more readily acknowledged as de facto partners under the Family Law Act. This is important, because even though Deeds of Relationship are regulated at a state level, issues of finance, children and property arising out of the breakdown of a Deed of Relationship are dealt with by the federal Family Court. 25 This makes it much easier for couples to obtain relief in relation to financial matters arising out of the breakdown of a relationship A Deed of Relationship is also beneficial for couples in asserting legal rights under other laws. For example, a registered relationship facilitates proof of next of kin for the purposes of hospital visitation rights and making decisions about the care of ill or injured partners. A Deed of Relationship can be used to prove that the relationship exists in much the same way that a marriage certificate is evidence of the existence of a marriage Same-sex marriages solemnised in some overseas jurisdictions are automatically recognised as registered relationships under the Relationships Act and as a result are also more likely to be recognised under the Family Law Act. 26 This is contrary to the position at a federal level, where same-sex marriages solemnised overseas are refused any recognition at all. 27 Additionally, registered relationships will automatically be recognised in some foreign jurisdictions, such Ibid. Note that in rare circumstances the Tasmanian Supreme Court or Magistrates Court has jurisdiction to deal with property and finance issues of this nature, but only where the relationship which has been registered under the Tasmanian scheme does not amount to a de facto relationship under the federal law. This would be highly unusual, however, given that the existence of a Deed of Relationship will usually be enough for the relationship to amount to a de facto relationship. The most likely situation where the Family Court would not be able to deal with financial and property matters for a Deed of Relationship is where the duration of the relationship in question, both before and after the registration of the Deed of the Relationship, is less than two years. The other circumstance in which the Family Court would not deal with property and finance issues for a Deed of Relationship is where the relationship in question is a caring relationship rather than a significant relationship. Family Law Act s 65A. See also the Relationships Regulations 2003 (Tas) s 7A. Marriage Act s 88EA. 11
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Let us know when your receive great advice so we can thank our lawyers and point others with similar questions in the right direction.Got it!
Is it best to use a process server or a just have a friend serve each of my tenants? May I please get a recommentdation of process server here in Santa Clara? Cheap if not free but great service.
You need to serve them all. If you cannot serve them individually, you can serve them by substituted service.
The problems with having friends serve them is that they may not know the protocol and that they have not developed a reputation with the courts. For the cheapest service, try the sheriff.Ask a similar question
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No legal advice here. READ THIS BEFORE you contact me! My responses to questions on Avvo are never intended as legal advice and must not be relied upon as if they were legal advice. I give legal advice ONLY in the course of a formal attorney-client relationship. Exchange of information through Avvo's Questions forum does not establish an attorney-client relationship with me. That relationship is established only by joint execution of a written agreement for legal services. My law firm does not provide free consultations. Please do not call or write to me with a "few questions" that require me to analyze the specific facts of your history and your license application and prescribe for you how to get a State license. Send me an email to schedule a paid Consultation for that kind of information, direction, and assistance. My law firm presently accepts cases involving State and federal licenses and permits; discipline against State and federal licenses; and disciplinary and academic challenges to universities, colleges, boarding schools, and private schools. We take cases of wrongful termination or employment discrimination only if the claims involve peace officers, universities or colleges.Ask a similar question
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Posted by anonymous
Wow... Mark would not be on time and or call. He would not call you back only after many times of calling or weeks. Get to the meeting and would ask if I had to bring anything else or needed anything and he would say no. Then would have some reason why he couldn't move forward. After may times of this I finely gave up. Funny thing is I paid him up front so that was not it... He needs to wok at something else!!
Posted by anonymous
We hired Mark to handle our bankruptcy. Because there was a business involved there were a lot of different variables to consider, including what chapter to file. Mark was very knowledgeable regarding the different options. He explained the steps thoroughly and was patient with our numerous questions.
At the same time our daughter was involved in a court case. Again, Mark was very knowledgeable and helped us through a difficult time.
Mark is a well-rounded lawyer with experience in family law and bankruptcies.
Posted by anonymous
This lawyer rarely returns calls and after three weeks of left messages, you may understand how frustrating this can be when you need information before you can proceed. He has caused considerable delays on multiple occasions and doesn't even offer a lame or good excuse. He is often late to appointments and offers a unkempt appearance when he does show. Late as much by thirty minutes. Sadly he takes a great deal of time to answer questions, usually having to contact you later with the answer even on quite simple ones, I would think. He is always unorganized, requiring you to wait on him to unfold his packed briefcase after he is already late to an appointment. By my view he is over worked or unable to maintain his case load with efficiency. I urge you to consider more reputable and stable attorneys. I believe it says something of a mans character on how they treat you, even a simple handshake should be hearty with a hard look in the eyes.


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During the 2015-2016 Affiliation Year, the NACURH Board of Directors confirmed the transition from the two offices, the NACURH Information Center and the NACURH Services and Recognition Offices into one combined office, the NACURH Corporate Office.
The first term of the one combined office, the NACURH Corporate Office, is up for bid this year. The NACURH Corporate Office is hosted by students at an affiliated institution for three years and handles all the administrative affairs of NACURH.
NACURH Corporate Office bids will be presented to the NACURH Board of Directors and the NRHH Board of Directors at the NACURH Annual Conference in May.
All inquires about the bid process should be referred to firstname.lastname@example.com
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Missed miscarriage, I want an EPRC but hospital saying no(8 Posts)
Hi all, I want to find out if anyone else has had this experience and what my rights are/what to expect. I found out at 12 week scan on Thursday that I have probably miscarried, though am having blood tests to rule out ectopic pregnancy as it is not completely clear cut (though they are pretty certain, and have told me it is just a precaution, I will have second blood test and results tomorrow). I get incredibly painful periods, I am also still suffering very badly from morning sickness - I am afraid I will have to wait weeks for nature to take its course and that it will be unbearably painful. I have told the hospital this (Gloucester Royal) and they are telling me I have to either wait for nature or have the pills (I am even more terrified of resulting pain from this option), apparently there isn't enough stuff in my uterus to warrant an EPRC, it would be unsafe as high risk of perforation and they wouldn't definitely get it all out, has anyone else heard this? Are they right? It's really what I want as it all seems so straightforward. This is such a horrific situation, I just want it all over as quickly and painlessly as possible so I can get on with my life.
First of all, I'm so sorry this has happened to you.
My, sadly relatively extensive, experience has been rather different to yours, in that I have felt those caring for me through my 5 mcs have sometimes been rather trigger-happy with the ERPCs, of which I have had four. I have never heard the reasons they have given for not wanting to do one - is there a reason why your risk of perforation is higher than usual; does it have something to do with the size of your womb atm (unlikely, if there is 'not enough stuff' there)? There is always a risk with ERPC of 'not getting it all out' (so sorry for all this cold clinical language), but more or less the same risk is given with waiting it out or the pills.
Are you absolutely sure of your dates? Once ectopic is ruled out, I would, IIWY, want to be sure that my dates were right so that I knew what had been seen was definitely a non-developing pregnancy, iyswim. If that is certain, then I would, yes, maybe see if I could get a second opinion or go somewhere else for ERPC. That said, I miscarried an 8- or 9-week foetus at home a few months ago and it was like a short, very efficient, minimally painful mini-labour. I have also, in a previous mc, been injected with a contraction inducer after a not-quite-complete ERPC and the pain from that was not as horrific as I had feared. So even if you do have the pills it may not be as bad as you fear. I can understand the desire to have it over with, though, very well indeed. My experience of ERPC is that it is generally straightforward and produces minimal physical trauma (the emotional side, obv, being something else altogether).
Good luck with getting through this in the best way for you. Be kind to yourself.
Thank you, it is helpful to know before tomorrow that what they are saying is not right, I felt like they really just wanted me to go away and get on with it. I am very certain of my dates, I keep a record of my periods and don't have sex very often (2 children under 5!) so there is no way it could be viable, though I am told there is the occasional miracle, but there is just an empty, 24mm irregular sac like blob and definitely no baby, they seem pretty certain. I feel like I am right to push for what I feel I need, there is no reason for me to be at particular risk. It has been really weighing on my mind (hence up so late), I don't think I could take days/weeks of waiting in fear and still be same at the end of it.
I am so sorry you have been through through this so often, once is he'll and I can't imagine. Thank you for sharing your experience with me.
kookoo can I suggest you check out the Miscarriage Association website so you are well informed about your options? There is a 1% complication risk with all three options (including easily dealt with things like infection or incomplete miscarriage) and perforation is v rare, so I think you are being misinformed. If your baby never developed then your body has already had weeks of not recognising this so expectant management seems not to be a good option. Needing some closure and not wanting the unpleasant process of a natural or medical miscarriage are perfectly valid reasons to request an ERPC. Talk to a different staff member first and call them on what you've been told, but be prepared to employ broken record technique "I'm sorry, that option is unacceptable to me because xyz..." if you need to. It's completely unacceptable if you have not been given an accurate picture of the risks/benefits of the treatment options at a very vulnerable time. I hope you get much better care today.
I'm so sorry that you are going through this. I have just lost my pregnancy at 6 weeks (but I know I should have been further along as scans had shown slow growth etc). As much as I would have liked to wake up and it all be over I have chosen medical management and took the first tablet yesterday. I have been assured that I will be given pain relief and told not to put up with any pain. Please don't worry about the pain - it will be prevented.
Thank you, I am so sorry you have to go through this too. I hope that you are doing as well as you can be.
A total Change of attitude today, I am testing very high for pregnancy hormones so they are concerned I may have a molar pregnancy (though it ha been explained how rare this is) and therefore have scheduled me for an EPRC tomorrow. I am relieved it will be over, though of course now worried about this new complication. I have promised not to google it! The midwife I saw today was much more understAnding and treated me like a grown up, which I really appreciated.
Glad you were treated better. Good luck for tomorrow. Several ladies on here who have experience of molar pregnancy if it comes to having to cross that bridge.
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The Great Awakenings are a reference to notable periods of religious revival in Anglo-American religious history. There are three generally accepted Great Awakenings in American history:
- The First Great Awakening (1730s - 1740s)
- The Second Great Awakening (1820s - 1830s)
- The Third Great Awakening (1880s - 1900s)
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The way you construct your resume will vary depending on the job you're applying for, your experience and your education. For example, a construction worker might focus on certain skills, a network engineer may focus on their education, and an EMT may consider experience most important.
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This simply decorated city hotel features light wood furniture and offers parking for its guests in the car park and the garage (the latter incurs parking fees). The premises are air-conditioned and guests are welcomed in a lobby with 24-hour reception and check-out services. Facilities include a hotel safe and lift access to the upper floors. There are 74 guest rooms on offer at this establishment. Guests can relax in the TV lounge and dine in the caf�, bar, pub and restaurant. Conference facilities are available to business travellers and all guests can benefit from the convenience of the room and laundry services on offer (additional fees apply to both).The rooms are spacious and comfortable, and some of them have a balcony. There are two room categories available to suit guests' needs: standard and business. All equipped with many comforts that offer guests an enjoyable stay. All rooms are equipped with the latest technology including a LCD TV, keyboard for Internet connection and on-demand TV with entertainment for all ages, films, cartoons and sports programmes in various languages. The Internet connection can be made with a personal laptop computer or with the keyboard available in the room. Each room also has an en suite bathroom with a shower and a hairdryer. A direct dial telephone, individually regulated air conditioning and individually regulated heating are further standard features in all accommodation units.
The motorway A4 MI-VE Verona Sud exit is 500 m from the hotel, and from the Verona Porta Nuova railway station, which is 2.5 km away, guests can take bus number 83 to the bus stop Via Torricelli, in front of the hotel. From V. Catullo Verona-Villafranca Airport, which is 9 km away, guests can take a shuttle bus to the railway station Verona Porta Nuova, then bus line number 83 as above.


text: Dear FunnyJunk (read discp) Adjust content blocking User has deleted their account. next random Comment Top NextComment **** your complaining, **** your criticism, **** your society, **** your hate, **** your comments, **** your way of not giving *****, **** your 5 year old reposts, and **** your current pet. I been coming here for 2-3 years, and I ******* loved it, I loved the community, I loved posts, I loved the comments, I loved the channels, i loved the fact that any bandwagon could be ride on yet none would hardly get boycotted, the Admin. I loved the fact how multi-internet-cultural this sight was. I loved every ******* little pile of dolphin turds this site had. I LOVED. Now every one is a ******* douch, dick, hypocrite, perv or a ******* idiot who complains about how the sight was ruined my newfags and the mods and the admin and the bronys and the brolans, and the bendingtime (which i have no idea what to call there fans now) the a otakus and anons and etc. WELL GUESS WHAT FAT ASS, IT WAS YOU, evey single little **** here today, and don't tell me you don't know it was you, cause it was you. Now every one just complains how ****** this sight is, or how Admin is unfair or the mods are ****** up and bla bla bla bla BLA. NEWS FLASH PAL, You think the admin gives a ****? You think Admin likes coming to this sight day after day after day and keep it alive for you to cry and whine about how unfair Admin and the mods are? Well guess what, he does, or at least did, but yet he keeps the playground for tards up and running, free of charge, and almost without limits.. Yah like every single ******* company wants their adds on a ****** up site. Oh and how easy for all of you to come victim to the admins and the mods trolls. Oh so very easy. I'd come here and login every day, I'd go on the board, I'd had my good time here, Now it's hardly worth it. I hardly login, and just lurk at the post and skip ******* with an opinion of this site or admin. I'm sick with your bandwagons to hate everything including your selves like a ******* emo. I'm sick of how you shower and complain to ******* trolling anons, I'm sick of this ******** of repost. Oh im sorry, you saw that post 2 ******* years ago? Okay. And how you complain that lots posts are taken from reddit and 9gag. NEW FLASH, it was the same before. Besides if you have the right to complain about reposts, then you HAVE TO MAKE A ******* OC. Your all a bunch of idiots who live in cave. GTFO of it and do somthing with your life. TL;DR Thanks for the Good time Admin, but I'm leaving this kiddy pool of turds. next ell Are )( ijhy People Have Middle Fingers! ... +6 Views: 1356 Submitted: 11/11/2013 Facebook Twitter Google+ Tumblr Pinterest


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January 31st, 2013 — Blog
Here are two great approaches to a similar theme. It's always a pleasure to see exquisite details rendered in black letterpress, while the digital map reflects the classic map color tones. Both work beautifully.
Fill in the fields below and post your reaction.
Link to this post: https://lioninthesunps.com/2013/01/blog/why-we-love-paper-259-2/trackback/


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Boxer knocks out fan in one punch after reaching 5,000 fans
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If he was able to get 5,000 followers, Wilder said that he would fight a fan.
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• Bills shoveling effort did not go well
No, not that kind of fan...
This one was well played by Wilder.
For 5,000 more followers, he should offer to fight the tire.
• Bills post wrong refund number, flood abuse hotline with calls
- Josh Sanchez


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Hello,I'm feeling a bit despondent about my low sales on my new website and would very much appreciate some feed back, mainly about my photos.(60 Posts)
I find it hard to get the photos right, especially the lighting and it's very time consuming which I don't mind but I just can't seem to create that processional look and they always seem too dark. I'm not trying to advertise on here, I just want an unbiased opinion. I would post this in chat but I'm not sure I'm allowed to (am I).
Thank you.
Actually that would be a good idea - to divide your shop into 2 sections: Finished products; and For craft use.
And then subsections when you get going, such as Cards.
And definitely make sure your opening words of the description for each item are clear and searchable, like Novascotia says. 'Handcrafted original fabric cushion, handmade in UK, beautiful colours and design.' That kind of thing.
Hi had a quick look, and agree with the others that i can't tell what things are from the pictures or the desciption, it takes too much effort to find what it is
very pretty stuff. as a crafter, I am not sure whether some of them are finished or for craft use (eg fabric shapes) I think craft items need to be priced differently to finished items.
Hope you get more sales in new year
I think your cards and knitted teddies are lovely, but you are let down by the bunting and the collage.
You clearly have talent but I think it would be better to concentrate on those things you are very good at, and leave the rest, as it makes your shop look amateurish.
Hi, OP, I started selling on eBay this year (with advice from MNers!) and I was amazed at how reasonable couriers are. I sent a fairly heavy item from the NE to the SW for just over a fiver.
I think it would help if you were more specific about delivery charges (e.g. for the sweet blue-painted shelves with bunting). I wouldn't pay £20 to have them delivered - but I'd like them!
Agree with bruffin, and the bunting would probably sell better if the shapes weren't so random, I'd stick to traditional triangles.
Aw, it's all lovely. I like your stuff.
The products look poorly made ie seams not ironed, uneven seams etc
just looked again at your shop. For instance, your product descriptions need to begin with search terms to get picked up by google, and those searching on etsy, I think it's the first 5 words that matter the most, and your first 5 words are: "I've carefully put together the"
What would be more effective would be an accurate basic description in the fist 5 words, so you could say 'fabric bunting, handmade in the UK' there are 4 words that people will use as search terms (you might think) if they were looking on etsy or google for bunting. In the next sentence you can start your 'I've made bit'.
Hope that makes sense.
Hi there, well done for getting started with your shop.
I think your prices are totally fine, you cannot compete with hobbycraft where everything is made in china, people who buy this sort of thing are not looking for bargain basement but rather style and quality.
Are you using all 14 of you tags? Are you using Etys SearchAds? Are you optimizing your listings for SEO both title and the beginning of the product description?
I agree with above posters totally, you need to photograph the product on a white background. There's been a ton of research done on this, go on any major site and (john lewis/ NOTHS / etc.) you'll see everything on a white background, there's a reason.
Also, agree with whoever said use natural light, don't use the flash, go outside on a grey day so light is diffused (god knows we have enough grey days in this country)
I've had an Etsy shop for about 3 years, plus own website etc. i'm not an expert but do make a living.
best wishes, stay positive, it's all a learning curve.
Just seen that there are more posts on here ! Thanks very much, all helpful and constructive. I shall set about changing things in the next few days. Thanks for bothering to reply.
I think you don't need descriptions like "a lovely" or "a pretty" or "good quality", it's what you get on ebay but not really on etsy, not very classy.
Other than that just seems a bit expensive. I really like your cards and the craft packs, but I think the craft packs should be about half the price...
My input is that I think you need to sharpen up your images & descriptions
If marketing on line you have only seconds to grab a buyers attention before they hit the next button.
The background should be clean. It can be coloured but ensure that the background does not detract from the item you are selling.
Make sure the initial description is clear and concise. Remember that initially most buyers will only browse descriptions. It is only when the description and pictures convince them that they are looking at something that interests them, that they will read more about it.
I also think that your pricing is quite high!
There is a really good book written by the ladies who started up 'Not on the High Street'. Masses of useful information to support your business.
I only had a quick look, and as others have said you can't tell what it is your selling without clicking on all the individual products.
Also, I cannot read that word 'vintage' that many times in a minute or so without starting to get sick of seeing it. As the shop is Gorgeous Vintage, could you not just have a description at the top stating that everything is <shudder> vintage and then leave it off the individual products?
your backgrounds are too busy and your descriptions too wordy. The lighting is fine but on the home page where you have lots of pictures you need to make the description under each photo be very short so you don't have to click on the photo to find out what it is.
I don't buy this sort of thing so have no idea what the price should be.
It's not clear what you are selling and how are people going to find you
You need to put lots of words in your descriptions so that when someone googles that type of item they come to you
If I was looking for vintage cushions I'd out it into google and come up with https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=vintage+cushions&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari
I agree with Nancy about the bunting, sorry.
the other stuff looks very pretty.
definitely agree that you should photograph stuff against a plain background. the heart with the green wooden background is so much easier to look at than the one against the garden.
and if you get a photo editting suite like photoshop Elements (cheap enough for this sort of thing), or a freebie like photoscape ans adjust the lighting.
do it in natural light rather than inside, but as Fossil says, not in bright sunshine.
that cushion is gorgeous, but needs to be ironed.
this one is a prime example of the photography. get it on a plain piece of white card and outside in the garden for its photographs
Just wanted to say, I like the cards, they are are pretty and a good price; maybe highlight those in some way as a "hook".
also its 'variety' not verity
lose the bunting it looks very amateur and badly made and will reflect on your other products.
Hi, some very pretty things but not really clear what you are selling, mixture of vintage sheets, craft bits etc. You need a clearer message about what you are selling I would perhaps change name to reflect the goods as well.
In the descriptions avoid "I" eg "I made this, I bought this" etc just describe the products.
Good luck
It's not the pics that are the problem, it's your descriptions. I've been on your page for 1 minute (the most I ever allow for a 'first look' if someone wants feedback) and I don't really know what you sell. So no motivation to click into the pics, as I don't know if I want to buy your products. You need to focus on your description at the top - Gorgeous Vintage doesn't really tell me anything iyswim?
Well all this advice has been invaluable, thank you all so much. Lots of food for thought and lots to do over the holidays. fossil97 did you do all that knitting ? That's amazing ! MargotLeadbetter (used to love that) I do have all the social media to drive traffic to my shop, just haven't felt much like doing it as I wasn't happy with the pics. Still, I've only been on Etsy for a few weeks so it's all new to me.
Thanks again every one & Happy Christmas xxx
Lots of helpful feedback on here. I'd agree with what others have said, clearer titles, descriptions and improve your pictures.
Are you looking at your stats? Are people viewing and not buying or not viewing?
Definately spend some time (if you haven't already) searching the competiton on Etsy as that what is your potential customers are doing. Thinking about what your different audiences might search, so crafters, scrapbookers, parents etc.
Successful Etsy sellers I know use it as it is a cheap and easy online shop, however they all have other sites and social media to drive traffic to their shops. I appreciate that might not be feasible for you now, but worth keeping that in mind.
Well done for being willing to ask for feedback, not everyone is as brave! Hope that 2013 brings you better sales.
You need to set your camera to measure the exposure from the item only and then the background should not go too grey (spot or centre metering). Or you can lighten it up in the photo software. Does the Lumix come with the ViewNX software, I have that from my Nikon? It is not very intuitive to use but you can do basic lightening up etc with it, possibly you could find a tutorial? If you have a PC you might have Microsoft Picture Manager (IIRC) or on a Mac IPhoto will handle basic adjustments, cropping etc.
That is a good link of MrsMerry <bookmarks it>
(I ended up buying a cheap book on digital photography because I was struggling to understand the features of the camera)
If you are doing a "lifestyle" picture - the background must not compete too much but must be
poncy aspirational - a shabby chic shelf like your pretty blue one, or a scrubbed pine table. Have a look at Country Living magazine or something - that's your target market .
It doesn't matter too much if the background is a little grey as long as the colours and details of the item pop out.
this is one of mine, taken outdoors in front of my big white bit of cardboard (you can see the torn corner!) Shade better than sunshine... then I adjusted the colours a bit with the editing program. Quite often a tweak to brightness, contrast and colour saturation makes a world of difference.
Thank you Tee
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Publisher's Description
Title: nutrimill manual grinder
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