text:
One man's solution to the economic situation in LA – what do you think and what advice would you offer to him?
His firsthand account of the economic situation in LA is worth the time required to watch the video.
Survival Blog - TheSurvivalistBlog.net
M.D. Creekmore's Survival Blog Covering all Aspects of Doomsday Prepping & SHTF Planning With Practical Tips & Skills for Preppers on a Budget.
One man's solution to the economic situation in LA – what do you think and what advice would you offer to him?
His firsthand account of the economic situation in LA is worth the time required to watch the video.
M.D. Creekmore is the owner and editor of TheSurvivalistBlog.net. He is the author of four prepper related books and is regarded as one of the nations top survival and emergency preparedness experts. Read more about him here.
That was a good vehicle nice and clean and taken care of man he is lucky to get his hands on that. He is right California is goin down the toilet in every way possible it seems good luck to him.
To me this would scream – "I have got stuff you want – come and get it " in a true bug out situation. Also, the maneuverability of an RV is fair in the best of circumstances; what if he has to go off road?
My thoughts exactly. That's not going to help much if the freeways are totally jammed and you can't get anywhere by road.
agreed. although a 7.63 x 39 round from my AK47 will keep anyone away from anything.
Why the hell would you want to go anywhere offroad anyways. There is a road to almost any place in America. If yourworried about people the get a dam gun.
Last winter my wife and I bought a similar RV only about 10 feet longer. Ford 3500 chassis with a 460 engine. We used to go to Arizona so my wife could get a medical second opinion from the Mayo clinic in Pheonix. The 1800 mile trip used so much gas I about croaked. Averaged 3-5 miles to the gallon. It is like driving a billboard in any kind of wind. We used the "bedroom" above the cab as storage.
We spent about 90 days living full time in the RV in really nice park. It was $275 a month plus Electricity at 14 cents a KW/hour. The park provided water, and cable TV. They had beautiful laundry and shower facilities. Despite all this, I am amazed the wife and I didn't kill each other. It is cramped, you are constantly getting in each others way. I was taking the dogs for a long walk every 2 or 3 hours just to get out. Cooking in the galley is fun for the first week, After that it becomes tedious. Washing dishes in that tiny sink is a joke. Rember to start the water heater when you sit down to eat so you have hot water when you are done. Make sure the unit is not sided to the wind, otherwise you get fumes in with dinner. Taking a shower in the tiny shower is also a joke. Shaving while balancing above the toilet is dangerous. Oh, the generator,,, It will rattle your teeth. It is also right under the bed and fumes are dangerous. The fridge will not hold a full sized gallon of milk, so get used to buying more expensive 1/2 gallons.
Be sure and start it at least every other day. Oh and remember if you bring a dog, you must pick up after Fido, so buy lots of do-do bags.
All in all the RV experience served its purpose for us, but We hated the general RV experience. TheMayo clinic was a complete disappointment. We did have a car shipped seperately so we had other ways of transportation. We drove it back home.
The unit is sitting in storage at $40 a month in Arizona, I don't think we will ever do that again. It was a good idea gone bad..
I would say buy a bigger bus style unit with slide outs. They are only a couple of hundred grand….LOL
However in a bug out situation, it still probably beats a 4-door sedan 🙂
OP. Yes it would, but then you have to "live". I do plan on buying a small travel trailer if and when I can sell the beast..
I live in Phoenix and have had firsthand experience with mayo-phoenix. I hope your wife is ok, but I would not take my dog to mayo-phoenix. By the way everything you said about RV's is basically correct. Have you considered a smaller travel trailer? Although smaller I find them to be laid out better and if you buy a "fixer-upper" you can put in a larger shower etc. However you will give up some of your precious little space available. They are cheaper to own, maintain, operate, and are more mobile, and in a pinch you can abandon them without excessive financial loss by moving your gear into your truck or SUV and go lighter and faster if necessary. Good luck selling yours. By the way, is anyone interested in my 1989 28ft Allegro with a Chevy 454 CHEAP, in Phoenix. I've decided to stay with my original plan of my Chevy Tahoe (4WD) with a 16 ft rebuilt travel trailer, and my Isuzu Rodeo (2WD) with the 13 ft travel trailer for our family of 4 if needed. By the way the 2 SUVs' are our daily drivers, so between me and the mechanic for larger items they get their regular maintenance etc.
Marti, Thanks for your reply. Yes the wife is much better now. She is recovering nicely from her liver transplant done in Wisconsin as opposed to The Mayo clinic in Pheonix. I could write a book on this entire process so far.
When you become a liver transplant candidate ( an arduous process in and of itself) they tell you to get regestered at 2 world class transplant centers. The Mayo clinic in Pheonix is one. The problem is that even after they tell you to "come on down", they refuse to accept the other hospitals evaluation, insist on doing another and when the insurance company says " No use the results already on file", the Mayo clinic refuses to see you….. This results in a near death experience.
My family sold our 3,400 sq ft home on 16 acres this past October and moved with our two teenage daughters into our bunkhouse 5th wheel. We homeschool so we are together a lot. My husband does go to work, thankfully but when he is home he gets a bit cranky if I try to do too much in the kitchen while he is at home. Right now I am canning bacon because he brought home 48 lbs. of bacon and 75 lbs. of pork butt. I took a box of bacon and the pork butt over to a friends home and am using her fridge until I can get it all canned. If we had gotten it last week I could just have put the boxes in the storage trailer as I worked it up.
I think the main point of my comment is that we are thankful we were able to sell our home while we could still make a profit and we are thankful we have a place to live.
I am sorry you had such a bad experience Carl. We are very used to being together all the time so that probably makes a difference.
Damn you sound like woman. You obviously don't know what roughing it out means. You won't last a minute when the s**t hits the fan. I own a class C RV. It's a lot newer then the one in the video but its perfect. It's 28 feet. Has a nice size bathroom. Shower and tub. Queen bed in the bedroom.4 burner stove/oven. Double sink. Fold down couch/bed. Another bed above the cab. Generator with only about 200 hours on it. It only has 44000 miles on it. And I get 11-12 miles to the gallon. I got it on Craigslist for $5900. The park I'm at is only $250 a month that includes electric. I pay for gas and water. I moved into this after leaving a 3 bed-2bath house. I couldn't be happier. People are talking about off-roads? This baby does fine on them.
I'm considering the very same route. Not going mobile,but an old camper is certainly better than a tent. I owe 8 more years on my home which sits in 5 acres. Several years ago the land across from my property went up for sale. I've grown used to not having neighbors and didn't like the idea if someone living that close so I bought that property and payed it off a couple years ago. Now like most Americans,I'm really feeling the pinch in my business. Fuel has skyrocketed asWell as All the other costs and fees that go with a small business. This.along Ruth the downturn in the economy has cost me more than a dew sleepless nights. I've decided that in order to stop worrying about not being able to make it another 8 years and possibly lose my house,I'm going to buy an old camper andnstick it in the only thing I own outright. I know that just seeing a means of shelter across the street will give me a little peace of mind. The FEMA campers are going for about $5500.00 in unused condition in my area and I've made my mind up to save up and buy one. We are halfway there and just knowing I'll have it very soon has
Given me a feeling of calm that I haven't had in a couple if years.
What kind of land do you own? If it's rural farmland perhaps you could find a farmer to cash rent it & plant it in crops. Just a thought. Separate from the land with the homestead we have some farm acreage that is handled that way. A steady income that more than covers the taxes; plus here in rural Ohio we get a tax break for productive farmland. Just a thought.
actually OP, it had an orchard on it when i bought it. there where 133 mayhaw trees on the land which i thought i could sell. turns out,the folks who have any interest in mayhaws to make jam,jelly or wine from, have there own orchards as well. i eventually cut down all 133 trees because of the people who would drive up on my property and help themselves to the harvest. being gone 3 weeks at a time(my wife and i work together) and with no one else home to watch the place i decided to hang some deer cameras up to try and catch the trespassers/thieves. they stole the cameras and the berrys.i got so fed up with the audacity of such peoeple i decided to end all temptation and cut all 133 trees down to the ground. in exchange for the wood i found a guy with a stump grinder to grind all the stunps level with the ground.i sure hated to get rid of them but i hate trespassers more.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7813/3053/640/P1000231.jpg this is the orchard before it met mr stihl.
As to the orchard, I think I would have mined it before cutting it down. Unfortunately people are so amoral today that what you did may have been sadly necessary.
BTW, Stihl is one of the best chainsaws. My 028 WB is 30+ years old and still running fine.
Aman on the Stihl – would not own anything else.
huskies are also great saws. Kinda spendy but great saws.stihl huskies and johanson makes great saws. Steve
I will have to respectfully disagree about Husky's being good saws. Husqvarna makes great saws,, almost as good as a Stihl IMO. Husky's however used too many bushings and not enough bearings to make them reliable with heavy use over time.
BC, please forgive my ignorance, but what in the heck is a Mayhaw tree? Must be from a different part of the country than I'm from!
Thank you for the update ohio prepper.I have not used a husky in many years(30 or so) and maybe along with alot of things they got cheaper.I know know to go with stihl if I buy a new one any time soon. I could use one with all the treedamage from our snow this weekend. Steve
BCtruck, we have made the painful decision to do the same thing with a cabin we own. They just trashed it again for the seventh time in less than a year. So are having it demolished and we are taking the well apart and letting everything go back to the desert. The only way you can win against the A-holes is to deprive them of their fun. I love the land so there won't be one nail left when it is finished.
Watch out for those FEMA trailers, they have problems with Formaldehyde fumes and are considered unsafe for habitation. In fact, those trailers are only supposed to be sold to people that will dismantle them.
Please watch out with those trailers.
The whole formaldehyde thing has been grossly exaggerated. It is a common result of off-gassing from lots of plywood and other manufactured wood as a byproduct of the glue used. It is common in new stick built homes as well. After awhile the glue settles down and the smell is gone. It's an unpleasant smell and no one is saying it's good for you but you open a window and it's gone. I suspect this was all blown out of proportion by lawyers and others hoping to make a killing on lawsuits.
Gone With the Wind, you may be right, but when the government says that the trailers are dangerous, I tend to take no chances. Rather safe than sorry.
Besides, I had family (Biloxi, MS) that preferred living in a tent than in the trailers because of the formaldehyde smell.
That's an interesting vehicle, and I can see some pretty neat applications. It looks like Gary has his act together, so Kudos to him and his plans.
I do not however have any sympathy whatsoever for the folks he talked about who are losing their homes. Seems to me like more nanny state attitude. He says a neighbor is walking away because he can't afford to pay his obligations, which is what they are. The fact that his wife wanted "to live a certain lifestyle", and they will now just walk away and stick someone else with the bill for their life choices clearly demonstrates that fact. As for considering myself lucky for living in a rural area, there's no luck involved. You have to understand that my friends, neighbors and I also want to live a certain lifestyle. Self sufficiency, obligations we can afford, and to act life conscientious adults. Many years ago a few years after getting out of college I got myself in over my head with debt, but I didn't just walk away from it. I lived frugally and spent 18 months getting everything paid down. I've not carried any substantial debt since then and now live in a fully paid off homestead on acreage in the country. It was a long road with sacrifices and hard work and I resent anyone telling me how lucky I am. Hopefully a few years living in Slab City will make these people understand and appreciate what's important in life; but, somehow I doubt it. It will no doubt be the fault of the evil banker or someone else, not poor decisions that these folks made. I'm not angry or bitter, just fed up with other people whining and not taking responsibility for their own actions.
I read on this blog about people whose prep for the week was a few extra cans of vegetables, or a brick of .22 ammunition and who can't afford anything else until payday, These are the folks who could legitimately complain and whine and want help, but prefer to act like responsible adults, and be as self sufficient as they can. Someone walking away from a $4500.00 per month mortgage doesn't even come close to these people in integrity, honesty, or hard work. Kudos to everyone on this blog who has made the choice to prepare as much as you can afford. You in my opinion are the real hope for this country.
Ohio Prepper I so agree with you. I am sick of people telling me how lucky I am. All those vacations I didn't take when they were going to Hawaii and Cabo and working our buts off for 32 years in our business and still working it part time rather than playing golf or some such thing.
And I also admire all the folks who are struggling to make it and still trying to prepare. They will be the survivors if some big SHTF event occurs. It is their homeschooled children that our the real hope in this country.
I don't know that home schooling is required, just involvement. My stepsons and my daughter all attended a local rural school district (K-12 population of about 1500-2000) and we were always involved. Volunteering for school activities, attending school board meetings, and parent teacher activities. That was all supplemented both with school and non-school activities, summer camps and trips. Staying involved, sometimes to the point of being a PIA made sure my kids received the education that they needed. A public education can still be good as long as you don't just send the kids there and go on auto-pilot. My daughter attends one of the top colleges in the nation, in part due to our involvement, and her work ethic and study habits. Home schooling may have been easier, but in the end, public school with constant involvement worked out for us.
My Step daughter is trying the home schooling idea and it is a complete failure. She offers free rent on the north duplex in exchange for a full time babysitter/home educator. She works many hours to make ends meet (And we still help with groceries) and recently evicted a highschool dropout without a GED. Her next tenant/hire? another unemployed highschool dropout without a GED. She pulled them out of public school because her children are the only two "white kids". Great way to teach your children about unconditional love when race is an issue with your education. She and I don't talk much. I agree that being involved in all aspects of children's lives (especially education) should be an ongoing priorty. I am very happy that your daughter was successful in public school and I partially blame YOU! God bless Ya'll!
As a homeschooling parent, it frustrates me no end to hear the type of story you are telling. Teaching your children is a full time job and if you are not going to do it yourself at least have the decency to hire a qualified teacher and get a good curriculum or find a different school. In our area a large portion of homeschoolers are families with children with special needs. The school cannot afford to provide the assistance (in my case medical) to keep our kids in school. I could throw a fit but your can't spend money you don't have and our government shouldn't either. My child is currently running two grade levels ahead in vocabulary and language skills, reading at level, and one grade ahead in maths. He is learning to play the piano, attends organized sports twice a week, is in age appropriate scouting troup, attends Sunday school and the church youth group. We work blinking hard to ensure that he is well socialized and well educated and most homeschooling parent I know do the same.
Yea, this is not good. Homeschooling is taking it into your own hands to teach them rt and instill your values. If you farm it out, it is no better than public school in fact it sounds like its worse. Just yesterday, one of my friends was telling me about correcting his boys on some history that they had been taught in grade school. The book writers have a specific agenda and it is to KILL the American dream at a young age. Much of our history has been rewritten and is used to this end. They give them lil snipits and canned answers to regurgitate and never realy teach them the true History of our country. What a shame. If she cant home school them herself, she should look into private school or relocate to better place for public school.
Rev sometimes race is not the issue but there lifestyle.I have sons but I would not want a daughter to constantly hit on by some sideways hatted fool with there pants falling off there a$$ and the indignity of being called a ho or bitch since they do not want to get raped by them.A friend of mine moved to the town of Santa rosa beacus they needed 50 more white kids in hunters point hi school in sanfransisco.That might have saved his life. Steve
I've purposefully moved my family half way across the country partly because of demographics. Many of my friends were those only "two white" kids in public school and they were basically subjected to a prison yard experience every day. I will not have my kids undergo that, and Christian love (Love your neighbor as yourself) does not mean to throw your children to the wolves. We should work to redeem peoples and cultures but God loves truth as well, minority populations have higher crime rates, it is not racist or non-Christian to acknowledge that.
Well…well…well said, Ohio Prepper! I haven't seen that much truth and wisdom packed in that short of space of words in quite a long time.
Amen! I too have had a few ups and downs and because I learned from those experiences now live in a paid off home (insisted on buying a home with a 'what if' approach), enough solar to have a zero electric bill ( I see rates will go up 10% again next year) as well as enough preps for my family (and 10% more) for 6 months +. Did I mention I live in CA? I've taken courses and training to help not be part of the problem. RV? Only if I rent one a couple of times and enjoy the 'camping' experience. All things considered, I'll hunker down as long as possible with the planning I've done and will continue to do.
Not every person walking off from a mortgage is a dead beat. Medical bills, lost work and crazy spouses are just some things that can cause a person to loose property to the bank. Add in the bad luck to have these things happen when the housing market is tanking and some decent folks will be lumped in with the ones that just bit off more than they could chew and ones that were buying and turning every two years. I myself bought a house in 1980 and paid it off at the wonderful interest rate of 9%. Built a house in 1993 and have lived in it since and now I'm looking at loosing it because of a spouse going stupid with a credit line. Sure I am at fault for letting her do it to me but the fear of loosing her was greater. Looking back I should have let her go and kept my money but hindsight is perfect is it not?
If this sounds like a whine, I'm sorry.
Sometimes bad things happen to good people and I'm sorry for your problems. When I say whine, I generally think of those who whine to the government to somehow bail them out for their bad choices or tell me how lucky I am for my circumstances. I basically refuse to feel guilty, which bother some people. Living with the consequences makes you more of an adult than a whiner. I hope things in the end work out for you.
I did not mean to come off snippy, and I agree that some have laid their bad decisions at the .GOV door. My troubles are entirely between me and the banks that loaned me/us the funds. One bank will be shorted and one will get all they are owed. I am sick that its worked out like it has, as I have had a great relationship with the bank that will be shorted. I even have a friendship with one of the loan officers although they might be reconsidering that now. I'm also finding out that the people I will have to deal with on resolving this are not "nice", I guess they are paid to recover every penny they can so I don't blame them. Also it's becoming obvious that in some cases they prefer the walk off to the person that wants to explore a short sale. I think it may be more profitable somehow to have the home owner abandon the property( maybe the way they write off the loss?) vs the negotiated short sale.
Sorry I have dragged this out of topic. I have considered getting a used RV or a box van and living in it. I have places I could store things/preps that would be secure and not cost anything and eventually buying some land with funds saved while living in the camper. NO MORE CREDIT, even if I were to be eligible again. That is the one big lesson I will carry away from this seemingly never ending hell.
Why not walk away. It's not like this entire debacle was planned by the govt. backed banksters. This didn't "just happen". It's another version of what Bernie Madoff did but it was done by federal banksters who knew how it would turn out. They made so much money they won't even let their books be seen and the reason there's such a fight going on over Ron Paul's audit the fed bill. In the past the fed was audited just by having the president ask to have it audited. If the average sheeple ever finds out how much money they made, they're be rioting in the streets….count on it.
Walking away, am I a POS? I dunno sometimes
I didnt live a lavish lifestyle, the (was affordable, sure wasnt no $4500 LOL) mortgage just couldnt be paid because my wife lost her job so there was not enough money and we lost the house last year. I aint whining to no one and do not want bailing out. She wanted WORK. We depleted our savings and borrowed against my retirement to try and save the house partially not be a part of the problem and partially due to pride. She has taken a job as a janitor from being a supervisor making 1/2 of what she did and now we are doing good and making good on all the other medical bills on payment plans which is about all we have as we had no credit cards, paid them off years ago and cut them up. I actually have a job that will fire me over not paying my debts and am still looking at being disciplined in the form of loss of short term income AKA unpaid days off, when the final outcome hits as punishment. Our cars are older and paid for. We dont have boats, 4 wheelers or anything like that unless you count a 2 man bassbuggy that was a collective gift from my family about 10yrs ago. I never even had a real vacation till I was almost 40 and we went a whole 6hrs away so there wasnt any extra money being spent there. Our lifestyles have changed because of this and I think we are better for the experience, at least I hope. I will probably not live long enough to be "debt free" now with incured bills and the difference if the mortgage company hits us for it after the sheriff sale and because of the debt and credit rating now I will probably not have my own place again so that part of the survival plan is hosed.
Am I part of the problem, Yes. Am I part of the solution, No. Am I going to continue to be a problem, NO.
A few weeks ago my 20yr old son was laid off and his future is uncertain other than I will always have a place for him if he needs it.
Am I proud for walking away, heck no but I shoulda done it years ago and saved my money. I coulda used it to help my kid, pay my other bills and coulda got a better new start and now my career is hosed because I tried to do the so called "right thing" and will not be able to promote because of the way I am viewed. You wonder why folks set fire to the house and chance going to jail, this is why. On that note, DON'T just deal with it, you will be better for doing the right thing in your own mind and your loved ones, trust me.
To the question at hand. He has a decent plan in the RV, not perfect but doable. I dont like RVs becasue if the motor, hose or trans. etc. goes you are stuck. But he is thinking in the right direction.
As far as defense of what he has, you will face that with anything such as your retreat, your camp site as you bug etc. so the RV isnt an issue other than being thin skinned but no more than some of your houses or tents and his is mobile therefore advantaged. I have seen that firsthand across the pond folks. Even castles fall!
OhioPrepper said, "…they will now just walk away and stick someone else with the bill for their life choices"
From what I gather, that's Not true at all, and your attitude is the wrong one to take.
People facing foreclosure should read these links, imho:
"It May Be Financially Irresponsible to Pay Your Mortgage" and "Why a Strategic Mortgage Default May Be Your Best Option)," I discussed this topic at great length. I talked about why there is no moral obligation in the purchase contract. The mortgage is a legal contract, not a moral promise. I explained why turning over the keys to the home is fulfilling the terms of the contract. I wrote about how big government and the Wall Street Banksters (yes, I repeat myself) have worked to shame people into staying in their mortgage loans for the benefit of collective "consumer confidence," the big, bailed-out banks, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the ownership society that keeps the middle class tied down in perpetual debt while selling a phony moral obligation…"
The bank gets the house back according to the terms, fair and square. And then there's this:
"…the notion of approving business defaults while flogging one's neighbor for walking away from his mortgage is entirely irrational. A corporate Chapter 11 is a strategic default, and these business decisions are never questioned by the same masses of folks who are enraged over specious charges of moral failure on the part of homeowners who walk away from homes that are collapsing their financial condition. This is because people who are financially ignorant think that households do not have to make strategic financial plans – only businesses do. It is a temperamental response triggered by ignorance and emotional blame…"
Let see. You buy more house than you can afford. Someone loans you the money for the purchase, and you have no moral obligation to pay back the money. And I have the wrong attitude. And we wonder why the country is going down the tubes.
Sorry, but having worked through debt, working extra jobs, and doing without, I sincerely disagree.
But then again I was more into acting like an adult, and not "Resisting Tyranny"
If I had a nickel for everytime I saw someone telling
another that their thinking is flawed or they are being irrational and here are the web links to prove it, I'd be a millionaire. Your handling of that was very "adult" and "rational".
I fully agree with you because it's about integrity & character.
The bank loans you money to buy a house, why?
A. You asked
B. They said yes but let's check a few things – your credit, the income you can prove, bank statements showing that you actually make the income you claim etc.
C. Next we want to analyze the market conditions (trends) and see if your purchase is fair market value. We aplolgize doing this but we need to protect our interests (and yours too by default).
D. You promise to pay us back in writing, ok?
F. If the property increases in value by double the price you paid & you decide to sell it, you keep the ALL of the profit just pay us back the remaining balance.
G. You need 90% of the value loaned to you, sure because you qualified and we trust you.
H. Before you can get the money please review all of the terms, payments, interest rates etc & sign again you know what your getting into – ok? If not, please do not take our money.
So now it's 3-5 years later & what happened to the profit you promised me? I'm under-employed & unwilling to help myself by getting more work, having the spouse work or whatever.
And look at the value today!!!!! Why should I keep this, we are upside down & my buddy just bought my model house for 50% less, I got ripped off!! Well, it's the bank's problem now, harrumph!!!
Come on kids, let me show how to handle things when things get tough ….
Gee, thanks daddy but can mommy still keep her new Esclade?
Sure kids, it was not included in our bankruptcy – mommy deserves to look good at the Starbucks drive thru. Besides, the repo man won't know we moved across town.
Daddy, you're my hero!!
The endangered species is our youth ….
I'm with OP on this. I'm of the old school generation on honoring your word even to your own hurt. The idea that a home is an investment rather than a place to live is what caused this fiasco in the first place. I own 38 acres with a 1000 sf cabin, 3600 watts of solar panels, a 1000 watt wind generator, a 20 kw whole house back up generator and a well. I've spent around $250,000 for the whole thing. I couldn't sell for half that price with the way the markets are today. But guess what I'm not losing any sleep over it because it is mine and I can use my money for preparing for the worst while hoping for the best.
Pretend for a moment that it was your bank at ALL of your personal money loaned out to people who promised to pay you back, how would you feel if they read these articles and said "nah, I'm not paying you any more – suck it up rich boy".
It's not quite the same, is it?
OhioPrepper said, "and you have no moral obligation to pay back the money."
Nope. A Person's obligation is to pay back the money, OR give back the house. It's that simple.
It doesn't sound like you were more into acting like an adult, it sounds like you were Not acting like a business, which is the whole point.
Because people don't treat their personal finances the same way a business would is partly why, "the country is going down the tubes."
You guys don't seem to have read the links. It's Not about integrity & character, it is about business and terms of a contract.
Steve listed off a few errors, such as, "B. They said yes but let's check a few things."
No, they didn't. More often than not they didn't check a thing which resulted in loans being given that should not have been given.
Another error by Steve, "C. Next we want to analyze the market conditions"
There was widespread fraud by appraisers and bankers alike to hit the numbers resulting in inaccurate results.
Then Steve is incomplete when he says, "D. You promise to pay us back in writing, ok?"
… Or, you give back the house, give up any equity and get hounded for any shortfall.
Steve said, "G. You need 90% of the value loaned to you, sure because you qualified…" No, it's called NINJA loans. No Income, No Job Approval. Fraud was widespread.
3-5 years later – when those who shouldn't have qualified for the loan but were fraudulently approved – then default, the banks should have seen that coming but refused to do due diligence because they didn't hold the loan they sold it in the mortgage market.
Steve, sorry, but you seem to have no clue.
chemman, it was the easy money from the Federal Reserve that created the housing bubble which allowed the mania to take off. That was the root of the disaster.
Steve, like I said, the bank had terms in a contract, pay or give back the house, simple. Plus, the bank sold the note and is not owed anything, they were already paid in full. It's all a big lying scam you guys are rooting for, it's not about honor or integrity, it's business and terms of a contract.
Sorry to rant on, but People should know. There's this place called thehousingbubbleblog.com perhaps you should check it out sometime?
Au contraire my fine, generalizing simpleton ….
1. Underwriters were required to check things such as credit, residency status, bank statements etc. IF the mortgage broker <<< get that, a mortgage broker, falsified documents, that was between the cheating mortgage broker & the borrower willfully taking advantage. Did you know the borrower signed the loan application as the foregoing being true?
2. Appraisal fraud, how much fraud could they possibly create – a 20% differential?? Wrong, again! The 90's established rules that prevented that from happening because of a condition that existed in the late 80's. BUT IF it did happen & get through that gauntlet, that was once again against the cheating created by the mortgage broker who blatantly violated their fiduciary duty – not the bank. Get the distinction yet??
The banks sold off the mortgages & retained the servicing rights – so what? They have been doing that for decades.
Once again I ask you – imagine if the money being loaned out was YOUR personal money, how would you respond to these people who decided to walk away for unknown reasons?
Better yet – loan me $100K of your cash & draw up a contract anyway you like & I'll willfully default within 6 months. What will you do, sue me? Ha! I'll seek bankruptcy protection as is my right!
Here's a little PS for you – the multiple class action suits against the banks are based upon loop holes in the system like "produce the note" or other idiotic lawyer tricks designed for the banks to settle – not draw out years long expensive litigation. You see, there is a delta or a squeal point where it makes more sense to pay a settlement rather than fighting for right – sad but true.
Gee Clark, how many litigants would be in the entitlement, give me something for nothing line had the market continued to rise – ZERO! But wait …. ah,,,, I,I,I, I got cheated by the big bad greddy bank but still made a 10 to 1 return on my investment, can't I still sue???
Here's the point Clunk – There's legitimate hardship where the borrower can loose the house in foreclosure however, much of the market is being driven by people who have decided that integrity is relative to market conditions.
Contracts are drawn up and created FROM honor & integrity or have you forgotten that?
Lastly, had the banks been able to see this coming & are greedy pigs as you espoused, do you really think they would have really chosen this position?
The bane of this condition & the single greatest enemy to this mortgage problem is the armchair quarterbacks who encourage & influence all to do the wrong thing.
BTW, paying Federal Income Tax is voluntary – look it up, it's totally true. Why not use that argument against the IRS & see how far you get …… now imagine the banks being able to wield that same type of jackbooted power – probably would cure the problem, eh?
"integrity is relative to market conditions" – Well said. Legal contract with no moral obligation my A**.
Actually you sound like yet another who doesn't read the contract. Your obligation is to pay back the money, period. The house is used as collateral, and will be forfeited if you fail your obligation. If the bank wanted a house, they wouldn't need you as the middle man.
Whether or not you're acting like an adult, or a business, you have a contract, and walking away from it especially as a business is unethical at best. Hopefully you'll never pay a business to provide you with goods or a service that walks away with your money without providing the contracted goods or services. Somehow I suspect you would sing a different tune in that case.
I realize that in our modern "me first" society, things like morals and ethics have become an anachronism, but that I guess is the difference between a child and a mature adult.
You're wrong, Steve, about many things, especially this one
2. Appraisal fraud, how much fraud could they possibly create – Lots, more than you give credit, the banks most certainly did get appraisers to hit the numbers or the appraisers didn't get work.
You both make a lot of assumptions, and worked hard to defend the banks and the reasons why People should stay trapped in financial ruin.
It is Not unethical to strategically default, your attempts to try to prove otherwise are appalling.
The house is used as collateral, and will be forfeited if you fail your obligation, and that is the risk.
People need to consider strategically defaulting for their own good, for the good of the nation and to help end the support for the unrealistic and unsustainable prices in housing.
What I am wrong about is my unwillingness to buy into the "strategic default" as a viable solution to an upside down mortgage position. I do not defend the banks nor will defend those who are doing wrong.
By way of background, I am a loss litigation consultant, with more than 20 years – hands on experience, and helped set-up and initiate systems & processes for HFC, B of A & several regional banks in the 90's. My specific area of specialty is/was Human Factoring – how & why people respond, in this case, to default positions. I have done the studies & watched how institutions respond to consumers is a seemingly antiseptic manner without being "human" to the stressed consumer.
Currently, I am the creative head of a national default solution platform that runs in harmony with but is independent of, banks. Our platform is a reversed engineered process that is completely consumer driven. I personally designed the consumer response mechanisms & discovered that they work relative to base integrity and fundamental truths.
Believe it or not, when someone is giving the opportunity to do the right thing AND you can minimize the pain (for most), people by in large do the right thing. Think about it – you see someone drop a quarter, you pick it up and hand it to them, no thought. If they drop a $100 bill & don't know it & nobody else sees it but you, do you feel the same sense of doing right? The elements & conditions are exactly the same, the increased stimulus became the difference however, right is right.
Many try to spin the contractual rights into their favor but the system breaks down because ultimately, the consumer loses in the short & long term and globally. Bottom line Clark, people borrowed the money and are obligated to pay it back and must do the best they can to what is right whether it is Wells Fargo or you who loaned it. Strategic default is not part of that equation.
Appraisal – Many fail safe strategies were implemented in the 90's (the acquisition 2nd & 3rd independent opinions) and continued to be modified. Entering the 21st century the online analytics made a greater presence and were widely used as a fail safe. All of these were to protect the bank AND the consumer. Remember, the banks assumed the greater risk not the borrower.
From 2002-2006 the market was spiking upward and IF the value was pushed, it was relatively risk free because of market conditions. Loans got underwritten BUT had to pass through the secondary online valuation analytic or it could not be approved which means – no loan.
"Strategic default" by definition & design lacks integrity and is independent of contractual rights of the consumer. Who has the right to strategically default? Nobody – there is absolutely no provision(s) in the mortgage loan contract that allows a borrower to strategically default therefore, it's wrong.
So why do people do it? Because it seems easy and, wow – "I must be missing an opportunity to take advantage of a condition" now pervasive mindset. Those people want something for nothing and feel entitled to do so for irrational reasons. People who default care only about one thing – themselves, not the future value or lack thereof, of real estate.
Your idea of mass strategic defaulting to bring housing prices in line with whatever you believe is fair is completely unfair to the far greater majority who work hard and went the extra miles to keep their word & in accordance to the business obligation – contract, they signed.
Your argument will never wash because it's foundation lacks integrity pure and simple.
Integrity is what you bring to a condition, not the reverse.
Correction – I'm a Loss Mitigation consultant not litigation. I've dealt with way too many lawyers over the years & they must have finally brainwashed me!
It's not about "fair" prices, it's about the ratio of income to prices, they are way out of wack.
Here's another's observation:
"Bottom line Clark, people borrowed the money and are obligated to pay it back and must do the best they can to what is right whether it is Wells Fargo or you who loaned it."
Bottom line, Mr Creative Head, is that if lenders were stoopid enough to make large loans to people who clearly had zero hope of ever repaying it, then at least they deserve to go bankrupt, and even better, the folks who made these lending decisions should go to jail for not protecting investor interests.
Keep in mind that it wasn't all the fault of the "greedy" banks. The feds had a gun to the heads of the banks in the form of the Community Reinvestment Act. What!! You didn't make a loan to a low income minority who can't pay it back? Well Mr. Racist banker, we'll take care of you. And by the way, Fanny and Freddy will take those loans off your hands with few questions asked.
The main point is that this is a complex issue, brought on mostly by government actions; however, not everyone who is in over their heads got there because of the evil banks. Some person just got greedy, assumed that they could afford a bigger house than they could actually afford, and that the valuation would just keep going up. It's called the greater fool theory, where I plan to unload it before it crashes. Unfortunately, someone is always left holding the bag.
A fundamental difference between you & I is twofold:
1. I don't focus my attention upon the wrong doers & act out of spite because that makes me no better than them.
2. The world owes me nothing; it's my job to create the kind of life I desire and never at someone else's expense. That's the difference between a child & an adult.
Einstein once said: We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.
It doesn't matter how much you rationalize your personal strategic default & what those like-minded, weak bottom dwellers you have aligned with say; that action is still wrong – and that's a fact.
What is wrong, is advising People to continue to pay for a mortgage they cannot possibly ever pay back causing further pain and suffering which also further delays the inevitable needed correction in house prices, all the while you're stooping to unnecessary childish ad hominem attacks in an attempt to justify your position, a very biased one I might add.
Of course, Steve, your rationalization is to be expected from a loan adjuster or someone in marketing.
Or haven't you gotten the memo yet? Housing prices are Never going to recover to 2006 levels!
When a bank loans $400,000 to a strawberry picker who earns $14,000 yr., the lender deserves everything they get and No One should be telling the strawberry picker to continue to pay for something which can Never be paid off.
Strategic default isn't an option. It's the ONLY option for most people.
We full well understand. My wife and I decided to downsize and live a rural self-sufficient lifestyle. We own everything outright and live below our means even at that. One of her sisters keeps bugging us to sell and move back to the big city. We keep telling them that if the SHTF they will be glad we have 38 acres of difficult to get to property that they are welcome to flee to.
My best advise would be to flee CA now ahead of everyone else. Many states are doing down the drain but why be first in line? Apart from that, if I had to flee the city I could easily imagine an RV being the way to do it. It's not exactly home away from home, but its the closest thing to it. What it lacks in speed and maneuverability is offset by the large storage space, time-saving features, and personal conveniences.
Toting a small gas-powered cycle or scooter on the back of the RV might prove to be a useful thing. It can be used to scout alternative routes during a major traffic jam, acquire more fuel for the gas-guzzling RV, is far more fuel efficient than using the parked RV to run small errands, and beats walking any day. It could even be modified to serve as a work horse to help when gathering food, wood, or other supplies.
I would probably invest in some portable fuel tanks, at least one of which could be strapped onto the cycle. Having them as backup fuel would extend the driving range of the RV, enable quick refueling of the cycle when needed, and additional fuel can be acquired using the cycle should the RV ever run out. That fuel could also power a multi-fuel camp stove without siphoning from the RV fuel tanks.
Having lived down below for 25 years (LA) I see a lot of problems with trying to get out of there with any kind of vehicle. It has taken me 6 hrs to get just from LA to Orange County.
There are really not as many roads leading out of LA as you would think. Depending on the emergency it probably would be impossible.
Of course in a riot you would have enough time if you were paying attention. But it better be on a freeway and not a surface street.
The emergency that comes to mind for me is an earthquake. You would never get out if it happened in S.C. Did you all see the collapsed
freeway in the Northridge Quake? And that wasn't on the big fault.
I agree about a 4 wheel drive as an escape vehicle though. That would be your only chance.
The slab city he is talking about? It sits smack dab in the middle of the most active earthquake area in the country, the southern tip of the San Andreas and the several others that converge there.
If he is only worried about being homeless then an RV is better than nothing I guess. But I think he should make other bugout plans. Maybe before an emergency happens.
By the way, george4title also does these videos on how lousy things are down there . He has all kinds of videos on youtube.
Interesting concept. I would be more likely to sell everything and vote with my feet. The RV idea is interesting and if you have no other skills or means, it would be fine as a means to an end, but from my point of view I would rather liquidate and relocate to where the economy and the politics are more conducive to survival. Just my opinion on the matter. If were doing the RV thing, I would also try to find one in Diesel. Diesel fuel can be made from a dozen different things in push come to shove sort need and you can get where you want to go when the gas pumps stop and the trucks stop rolling. Neat RV though.
I have often wondered in this day and age why anyone buys a home, they are never in it. I have said many times that they should buy a motorhome and of a morning drop everyone off and the reverse in the evening.
I lived down south in California and the only plus was the weather.
This is a good idea, but he never says how many fanny's are going to be in it at one time. I understand all the good reason's for him getting this certain vehicle but seems a little squency. But then again if I had to stand up in the thing to survive probably would.
My bug-out RV:
Old enough to have NO electronics under the bonnet, many parts can be made in a machine shop (in fact she had a new water pipe that was, as parts are no longer made). She's done just 45000 miles from new. She's stocked with at least 2 weeks worth of food for 2 adults, a month's worth of coffee (you can see where my priorities lie) and changes of clothes for a week. There's an extensive first aid kit, and enough OTC medicines for most eventualities, plus stocks of our prescription drugs. Tank water is drained for the winter, but there's bottled water stored.
There's two tents onboard, a two-man (allegedly three) cheapo pop-up and a Coleman 4-man jobbie. There's sleeping bags for 4 people and blankets for six, plus 4 airbeds. Internally, it will sleep up to 5.
In addition to the onboard cooker, which runs on butane (2 cylinders in the hatch) there's a great firepit made from the bottom of a large LPG cylinder. Everything on board is 12v electrics, the batteries can be charged from vehicle motion, solar and electric hookup from site or generator. The generator is stored in the garage, we don't normally carry it.
There's also board games, cards and a small library, plus binoculars.
It doesn't lie idle 'just in case' we use it regularly. It would take us less than 20 minutes to grab further essentials and get out, less if necessary.
Later this year, she'll have a bull bar and winch and solar charging facilities.
Nice BOV for an old Luddite LOL. Somehow I expected to see horses in the photo.
Taken on the same day, same place, same bat channel. No, they're not mine!
She's a sweet looking ride, Luddite Jean. And she's 'tricked out' in a way only us here (with our mindset) can truly appreciate. I'm with Ohio on this…I expected horses as well. LOL
I'm looking at a slightly different approach: a bumper-pull trailer (17-20 ft long) behind a large 4×4 (likely a Suburban.) The truck would hold all the critical gear so the trailer could be ditched if necessary, and the trailer could be stocked with the remaining secondary items.
We'll probably have the truck by this summer, and we'll plan on the trailer next outage (fall 2012.)
I'd like to have the trailer anyway, just in case of a household disaster or if we have lots of guests. I'll likely need it once the girls are older, since I have a wife and three daughters but only two bathrooms in my house. It might end up as my refuge from the cloying cloud of estrogen my house is likely to become. (No offense is intended; this is my attempt at self deprecating humor.)
My RV is 31 ft long. From April to October, it is fully loaded and I can be out of there with the 12 year old car that we tow hitched up in 20 minutes. It has a generator plus a solar panel and my refrigerator is quite a bit bigger. Usually 10 mpg. We spend a lot of time in it, even if it is in the yard as our upstairs gets so hot in the summer, so we sleep out there. After 11 years of having an RV, we have a pretty good system and so we can be quite comfortable and not get on each others nerves. If I had to leave in the winter, it would take me a little longer to carry every thing out in the totes, and there is currently no water on board . I agree with NJ Prepper though, that it is like waving a red flag – that you are carrying all your important belongings with you. Also, if it is missing from the driveway, it is a flag that we are not home. We have tried to let the bushes grow up around the yard so that is is not as visible from the street. I am very grateful to have it as my back up plan. If nothing else, I have the generator if the power goes out.
My advice to him? Install a gun turret!
Actually, this is a pretty good idea & I'd probably look for a lightweight utility trailer to haul some other essentials. This reminds me of the Tiny House guy you posted months ago.
Like NJ Prepper said, I too would worry about someone wanting to Hi Jack it. I agree It would scream to me too having something worth taking.
Thanks MD, great post!
Hi Jason.
For anyone who's been following this blog for a while, you probably notice that a certain troll keeps coming around trying to cause trouble. He has gone by WITWIC, Jason, and now Steve.
Yeah, Jason is back under another new pseudonym. This time he's "Steve." Same old pain in the butt, but with a new name. What a surprise — not!
I predict he'll come back again, this time as "Pablo." ROFLMAO
First off, late last year it just so happens that I watched all of Gary's videos on YouTube. He is an interesting guy. He bought and sold several RVs in the videos I watched, which led me to wonder if he was using his videos as sales promotions. (I'm just wondering, not accusing.) In one of the videos, he mentioned that "his house" is not really his, but his girlfriend's. He also said he was a loner by nature and didn't stay put very long in any place. So he really isn't the typical bugout person, IMHO. He has no children, no home, no ties that bind, no real worries from what I could ascertain from his videos.
And I wonder how many of the vacant houses in his area were abandoned by illegal aliens. Much of the trouble in this state is directly or indirectly related to illegal aliens from all around the world who are welcomed to stay in "sanctuary cities" here. It's a real burden to those of us who are natives and taxpayers.
However, the topic of a bugout RV is fascinating for several reasons. 1) will you be ahead of the pack or part of the pack, when bugging out occurs? If part of the pack, a big RV is going to be a burden, not a benefit. 2)will fuel be available before bugout time arrives? If you need to get fuel before you can leave and there is none, then your RV will make a nice temporary shelter at best. 3)as somebody already said, an RV doesn't have 4WD so you are relegated to existing roads that are in fairly good condition. These same roads are where most other people will be, as well. 4)until SHTF, you have a vehicle to keep maintained, insured, secured, and stored – that's a lot of extra expense in these tough economic times.
An RV is great for some vacations, but not my first choice for bugging out. If I had to leave the house, I'd want a good SUV with plenty of storage, a place to sleep inside the vehicle, and 4WD capabilities. But, just like Gary in the video, I only have myself to worry about.
Lint Picker,
Am curious about what you meant by illegal aliens abandoning the homes. I thought you had to be a legal citizen to get a home loan.
Are you experiencing the same foreclosure/abandoned homes in your NorCal location?
Steve, illegal aliens have had no problems getting driver's licenses, birth certificates, social security cards and other legal documents by stealing identities of legal citizens or by bribing state workers. This is a fact, and one that seems to be of little or no concern to the federal government and the state government. But besides that, banks didn't care who applied for home loans – remember that the loans were backed by Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, which were in turn backed by the federal government…aka the US taxpayer. The housing boom was a big ponzy scheme created by self-centered politicians (a redundant term, perhaps?) and greedy bankers who knew they would not suffer when it all went to hell. NO, there was no requirement to be a legal resident or citizen to get a home loan. This is not new in California. This type of illegal ripoff has been going on for DECADES with welfare, food stamps, social security payments, etc. People across this country need to know that this is all part of a big scheme to keep a certain type of politician in office for a lifetime.
One of the hardest-hit regions of California as far as home foreclosures go is the Fresno area in central California. Why? Look at the demographics.
There are many foreclosures in my area, but mostly due to people who lost their jobs to illegal aliens. This is not a prejudicial statement, this is a fact. American citizens cannot compete with illegals who will work harder, longer hours, for less pay and who don't belong to unions. Actually, I should add that construction unions have priced themselves out of many labor-intensive jobs here and those jobs were taken by illegals. If you don't believe me, all you have to do is check the statistics, you will find that a huge percentage of California's population is illegal.
A few years ago I sold a car to a guy who later told me he was here illegally. He was working at a vehicle repair shop, making $18.00/hour (less than union wages) and had a girlfriend and daughter he was supporting. Of course, his girlfriend and he didn't want to marry because then she would lose her food stamps and welfare payments. He had a valid California driver's license (illegals are not supposed to get driver's licenses in this state, that's one of the laws Arnold Schwarzenegger promised to uphold and that's why Arnold was elected as governor 7 years ago). This same illegal alien had it all and I knew I was helping him have it all through my tax dollars. To be quite frank, it pisses me off that this happens and the politicians know it happens and they don't care. In fact, most politicians here want it this way – it's guaranteed votes when amnesty is passed. And it will be passed, you can bank on it.
Muy bueno gracias por la información!
A little funny for you and thanks for the insight – BTW, I'm a white guy who speaks Spanish con fluidez (fluently).
Also, it pisses me off very much too. I only speak to illegals in English & pretend not to know what they are saying … unless it's the wrong thing, then you should see their faces!
Hablo espanol un poquito, tambien. High school Spanish sometimes pays dividends in this state. LOL
Was California even a state when you were in high school? LOL!!
Smartass, huh Steve? Is your other screen name Jason?
Lint Picker,
That hurts but my other screen is Juan Mohammed Xiao Smith – that way I fit into the New America!
Lint Picker (Northern California), seems to me you have a problem with government redistribution of wealth and wage control instead of immigration status, so perhaps your focus should be on that, i.e. recognizing the failure of government and the need for all Americans to face the fact that everyone needs to accept lower wages to compete. It might help in the future, especially since, We're All Illegal Aliens now
Clark, thank you so much for explaining to me where my real problem is. and where my focus should be. It's truly fascinating to learn that you know me better than I know myself.
Clark, you say in order to compete we need to lower our wages to become more like the 3rd world workers?
Economics 101 – lower wages is not the answer, we must stop outsourcing and manufacture in the US again.
PS, clark, in the future, please spare me your liberal BS, I get enough of it everytime the prez is on TV – which is everyday. Thanks.
Clark. the problem is illegal aliens period.They work cheaper and often there work is shoddy and employers like them beacus of cheap wages wich leads to cheaper workers comp bills beacus they are usally pro rated to wages of employee.they have babies for free at the hospitals that saves employers more money still. They suck up more services then there taxes pay for, if they even pay taxes. The list goes on and on. Steve
axelsteve, you might benefit from reading this:
The Logic of Outsourcing
It's too much off topic, but you're complaining about a sign on the wall that says "Free Steak" instead of how to stop the money from being stolen to pay for that free steak in the first place.
Lint Picker (Northern California), notice the words, "seems to me" I'm just trying to enlighten you a bit.
Este problema, el de mi amigo – muchos, muchos están aquí las personas ilegales que no pueden hablar Inglés y nos vemos obligados a atender a sus necesidades.
I'm sorry, please push 1 for English.
Clark. we are not outsourcing we are insourcing poverty and crime.The next time a illegal murders a u.s. citizen come thank me about illegals and how great they are . The next time a illegal rapes a woman tell me how great diversity is.The next time a politican tells us about the hardworking identity stealing migrant is I will tell them screw you. Steve
Very interesting article …. the second to last paragraph was the key to it –
Clark, you can take your condescending attitude and your "I know what's best for you" mentality and shove it – know what I"m saying, pal? There are ladies present or I would spell it out for you more precisely.
You can march to the mantra of the left for all I care. But don't try to convince me to follow along. I'm not a sheeple and I'm not a liberal and I will NEVER be either one. Get a clue.
Of coarse it will be passed! They have to pass it to legalize the PRESIDENT.
I thought our President proved he was a citizen by being raised in Hawaii, doesn't that qualify? Ha, ha
I'd put a better muffler on that generator. It screams "people with stuff – come and get it!".
O my god like A huge Rv wouldn't. Who cares about a little noise.
In an RV – any RV – where are you going to go? An RV park? Staying at home and sheltering-in-place would be better. Going into the wilderness or National Forest? RV's aren't 4WD so you are going to be limited. Plus being in a big RV is just going to announce to the world that you're there.
NJPrepper is right – an RV is just going to scream "I have lots of cool stuff you want" to the don't-haves – and there will be tons of them.
Better yet, dump the RV and get a small 4WD that will take you as far as possible into the backcountry. Then get out and walk into the most remote wilderness you can find.
And oh, yeah, your survival skills had better be up to snuff.
Amen, sister!
Plan A is to hunker down here. We have a big old house and a fairly small town and all my kids, grandkids and mother in law are within half an hour of here. So I am working on providing for the provisions and safety of 15. No other believers in this group, so I just quietly go about my preps and store things where they aren't noticed.
Plan B would be to head for Maine where the rest of my family is, but there would be nothing there for me except shelter.
As for the RV, it is paid for, we enjoy are time in it and I get to practice my skills while camping. So no, I would probably not bug out in it, but I don't think I would try to sell it either. It has bailed us out of too many ice storms.
My life is what it is and there are too many gray hairs on my head. I don't see a homestead in the wilderness in my near future. So I will just do the best with what I have and where I am. At least I am trying to be prepared.
Your right staying at hoe is bettr but if you have to leave an RV is your best bet. I don't care what you say about people knowing you have stuff. If they don't then they probley don't even have a gun. Also its the best shelter, You aren't going to survive in the open for long your body and mind isn't used to it. You can park an RV anywhere it dosen't have to be a National forest with a thousand other peple who have that same idea or an RV park. People park in parking lots like Wal-Marts and stuff all the ti.
First, let me say I worked for a company who insisted on running Ford trucks like that and not only did they suck gas like crazy, they had bad transmission(I'm speaking of a brand new one), Ford C-6's, engines that constantly overheated and their ventilation systems never came close to a GM truck, nor did they even come close in the power dept. We were using the AutoCrane one day and the engine would overheat with the hood up and the only thing it was powering was the alternator to operate the Auto Crane. I used to buy older trucks and fix them up. It didn't take me long to figure out Ford's not only cost way more for parts and use many more of them but don't even come close to the performance or handling of a GM. Having said that, a gas guzzler like the one pictured is one break down after the other waiting to happen. I worked away from home for four years and finally bought a travel trailer. It was nice with big slide outs and everything you need except a kitchen really big enough to not be a pain, it took more power to heat and cool than any house you'll find and everything that might break was RV specific, meaning it cost an arm and a leg. I looked back on the days I'd rent an apartment and longed to get out from under the travel trailer. Now I'll speak about the best bug out vehicle there is. I live on my own farm with six wells and plenty of cultivation and plenty of pasture with game to keep you in meat any time of the year. When it gets right down to it, I only need a 250-500 gallon fuel tank for gasoline just to run my chain saw and my tiller. My farm(100acres), house and barn where I can work on anything and even take shelter if need, cost me less than one of those big RV things that the original cost is a quarter million dollars. I can cut wood and stay warm and open the windows and stay cool and run enough livestock to feed me and a lot of other people and enough cultivation to raise everything I need to for the non-growing season. My ideal bugout vehicle just for emergencies and going to town and spending very little money doing so and something that will pull a small stock trailer is a baby pick-up in 4 wheel drive. I have had one and it was a wonder in the ice, snow and all other conditions. I had another set of wheels and tires strictly for mud when a hurricane came through or we had an exceptionally long period of rain. It was easy to put a camper on it but it was decked out in side boxes for tools, a head ache rack (heavy duty for hauling it's GVWR on the top with a bar across the back of the bed for supporting the other end of long things like heavy pipe, purlin, etc.) Catching the rain off the roofs supplies you with water for a while and a windmill does the rest. My pitbull takes care of dangerous animals and warns me of dangerous thugs(the most dangerous being the ones with badges and guns). I won't have to worry about them when the SHTF since they'll be busy just trying to survive and I have them outgunned by a long shot. Yep, my ultimate bug out vehicle doesn't even have wheels, won't even move but I'm safer far from any city than those who chose to make big bucks and hope the grocery stores don't run out. We don't think a thing of not going to the grocery store for two weeks. We're not strung out on ice cream or all the other things you go to the store for. Beer is easily made and is better than most of the swill you can buy. Once the SHTF, I'll make my own alcohol to for emergencies and it can also be used for fuel. I only need to stock up on lubricating oil and canned goods. Otherwise when things go bad, we won't know except the tv and internet won't work. I remember my mother and father speaking of growing up in the depression on the farm and how little it affected them. Cows eat grass and pigs eat anything and chickens do too. Sugar and salt are things you want a good stock of. We have friends who visit with children who want to know why they don't have the Milky Way at their house. Ever churned butter? It's the best thing you ever tasted. Ever eaten a yardbird? You'll wonder what they did to make chicken taste so bad. Same thing goes with beef, pork, venison and everything you grow. Buy 5-10 acres somewhere and live on it. It will be a great bug out vehicle.
Sounds more like a Bug in Location than a Bug out Vehicle. We have the same plan, acreage, well & creek, garden, etc. We do however keep our BOB packed and have a 3/4 ton Chevy 4WD if we have to bug out. Bug out in this case would be more of a temporary thing in case of a hazmat situation, noxious gas etc. An established BUL beats a BOV anytime. BTW, I just love acronyms 🙂
perhaps you would like to join the CTOSIA ?(coalition to only speak in acronyms) i joined and ILI! B
ROFLOL. BTW, FWIW, so do I.
You guys are just TOO funny. Thanks for my belly laugh of the day!
A rv would make a good spare bedroom for a family member. Steve
ok, off the subject but critical – food prices may be rising 50-90- % in the next week due to the freeze destroying crops in Mexico which is where we get winter produce. Get canned veggies, frozen if you have room and meat as meat prices may rise also.
Tomatoes are in short supply I just read on my MSN home page.
here's the link – and if it doesn't work go to http://www.foodstoragemadeeasy.net
click on their useful links, and go to the blog A Matter of Preparedness and then click on her link to the video.
I'd say the SH is hitting the fan now for at least the foreseeable future. Thank God it's time for many of us to be starting our seeds – go to your co-op (if you haven't already) and get sprouting seeds for some freshness.
If you can, and have a dehydrator, buy up some veggies and get started. Cauliflower, broccoli, carrots etc can be done. (I have) Great in soups and stews. I bought a 50 lb bag of potatoes and one of onions in October, just before the local farmers market closed for winter. So I'm set there! But I will be running my dehydrator in the morning on some veggies, and stocking up on frozen ones. Dollar store near me has Libby's canned veggies for 79 cents a can – there are green giant veggies also. corn, green beans, mixed veggies, carrots spinach.
what, you're still here? Get going! –
GrannyJ, I went this afternoon and bought about 40 lbs of veggies that will be in short supply next week. The store had a sign that said cucumbers, tomatoes, beans, peppers, squash & eggplant. I've already canned alot of eggplant (will do more if the prices remain ok for the next 2 days), but stocked up on green beans, various peppers and about 10 lbs. of tomatoes. Getting off work early tomorrow and Saturday (5 p.m.), so, guess what I'll be doing to prep this week? Can you say "canning"? Also, am planning to go to a box store on Sunday (my day off) and stocking up on wheat, if they have it, but most definitely flour and sugar. I fear the days will be darkening, and SOON!
Forgot to mention that, while I did indeed buy, the prices were already higher than I'm used to! As a matter of fact, I'm probably going to spend every single penny I can spare on fresh produce to can in the coming week. Have lots of canned stuff, but prefer my owned canned, when I can do it.
As a side note, have been buying bacon on sale and canning that. Hope I'm doing it right! But the price in my area is now $6.99/lb of bacon…when I see it for buy one, get one….I CAN!
Which has nothing to do about BUV's. I don't have one. I can't afford one. If TSHTF, I'm bugging in. If it's a scenario where bugging in doesn't work, well….it was a good ride while it lasted. I plan on enjoying each day as if it were my last…which is how we should treat every day. I show my gratitude to my family and friends always. I do the best I can. I plan, I prepare, and I pray. .,m.mmoll/kjlm.m …… and I LOVE my cats….even when they play on the keyboard!
Coffee…..don't forget to stock up on coffee! (Well, it's a priority for me, anyway LOL!)
Gasoline in my town is $3.46 today. On Monday it was $3.35. That's 11 cents in 5 days. This will impact the price of everything. BTW, that's the cheapest gas in town.
Inflation has been a reason for wars throughout history. At what point is it again a call to arms? My hope is never, but then I look at Egypt and know it's only a matter of time before it happens here, too. Very troubling times, to be sure.
I had to fuel up in the morning yesterday for a 2.5 hour drive to a directors meeting yesterday. Cost $3.18 a gallon cash. On the way home I stopped at the same station to fill up again as I like to keep the fuel tank near full. Cost $3.28 a gallon cash. Gas is a little cheaper, lol, here in North Eastern Arizona.
Yikes! That's crazy. I guess $5.00/gallon is going to be reality before we know it.
Drill here, drill now. Drill, baby, drill!!!
greetings. old chinese curse. May you live in interesting times.
I've been re-thinking the whole thing–a lot of this would be dependant on where a person lives I suppose, and other factors. To Bug-Out vs shelter-in-place, etc…. Based on some of what Ive been seeing from the MiddleEast,I am beginning to think a better strategy might be to bug-out. And not by land. I like the RV but i don't know where you'd go or how far you'd get. In the end it seems a liability. Something you've put a lot into that might eventually be abandonded by the side of a road. Something that would stick out and invite scavengers and worse.
I think the best way to Bug Out would be in such a way as to A: Have a very good natural barrier and B: a way that would not have as much competition from other survivors. And I would say that would be to Bug-Out by BOAT. Historically water makes a GREAT barrier to un-wanted guests.
Jeez, lots of negative thoughts, and going off-topic to criticize. How about someone who has been-there-done-that?
I lived in two separate RVs for a total of 5 years. The last stint was a family of 5 in a 33 footer. In the winter. In Canada. So cold, that the furnaces quit working because the propane got too cold to be a gas. Frozen water pipes are no fun.
Also lived for a while in the desert SouthWest – with air conditioning that couldn't handle it. Climbing up mountain passes turned into an all-day affair, being passed by cyclists.
Got stuck in Uvalde, Texas for a month after a transmission blow-out. That was actually not interesting at all.
That said, all these clowns that say an RV screams of "I GOT STUFF" are completely clueless. Would it be better to have a tent that can be ripped open with a box cutter? Idiots.
I think your class C is a good size. How many in your family? You can handle a family of 5 in that. Not fun, necessarily, but you can do it.
I'd suggest looking for roof pods – such as Thule. You have a small area up there that would come in handy. I'd also make room for a couple of bicycles. I'd sell the 4k generator, and get a Honda EU2000i if possible. It probably will NOT run that AC, but we're talking emergency, here. In the desert, I'd switch that for a swamp cooler, anyway. That worked for me quite well in Nevada.
When I lived in the RV, I had problems storing CDs, DVDs, and books – my profession required vast amounts of those. Now, all that is on my computer, and saves tons of space. Copy everything you have to your computer and craigslist the rest.
Have the roof looked at, and ensure it's intact. An exhaust fan will be of more use than the AC for most of the time you're using it.
Be careful about your load capacity. With that water, and your black / grey water tanks, you may be over your axle limits without provisions. That's a very common problem with cheaper Class A units. Yours does not appear to be obviously maxed out with the 21 foot length, so you should have some room.
Use folding camping chairs. Camping cooksets, too. Take less room, and are very compact. Check your refer, it'll suck more power than you can imagine if it switches from propane to 12v.
My own rig is in storage,and we're pulling it out this summer. It's bigger than yours, but is from the same era. It's a diesel, and has a 240 gallon tank, and a range of about 2,000 miles when not towing a car. Its load capacity is also quite high. We're *finally* paying it off in the next six months. We're moving out of our current condo into a place where we can fix it up, and get it going.
These naysayers who claim the RV is a millstone are simply envious, in my opinion. You want a 4WD car – for what? The flexibility of having your house with you is lightyears ahead of what most people will have. Just look after it, and you'll be fine. Also, band together with other RVers to look after each other. Circle the wagons, so-to-speak.
Your swagger makes me stagger.
Hi Jolly, M.D. is going to have a talk with you. Uh Oh.
No name calling allowed when our opinions differ.
Forget about any sort of vehicle in a severe disaster, much less TEOTHAWKI you had better have a staged prepped "go to base off any sort of busy road and ready for occupancy. If you don't have a helicopter or off road motorcycle you will not get out of L.A. or any large urban cnter. Helicopter flying lessons and a plan to steal a Robinson Helicopter (unless you can afford to buy your own) jis your only ticket out. Your base should be in an area with streams that have renewable fish populations and plenty of big and small game all around. You also better know how to garden and raise chickens, pigs, goats, whatever for a protien source. You romantics think you are going to be placed in the same situation as "Omega Man" and it's just not gonna be like any movie hollywood can dream up. I am very self sufficient, but pray this day is at least a couple hundred years off, but I realize that we could wake up tomorrow right in the middle of it, or the beginning anyway.
BTW, Propane stops converting to gas @ -44 F. Brrrrrrrr.
You are correct but most propane you buy is a blend of propane and butane. In the winter they are suppose to change the blend. If they don't it is the butane that causes the problems. Because of the liquid butane in the mixture the overall tank pressure drops and you might not get any propane out of the tank either. I have several friends who lost gas pressure when the temps dropped out my way. I only dropped to -22 but they live in low lying areas and dropped to -36. The butane liquified and their tank pressures dropped enough that their heaters went off.
Butane OTOH stops converting to gas @ +33 F. That's why you keep a lighter in an inside pocket.
There are not too many romantics on this site. Many of us have been doing this for a long time, and I for one am not looking forward to life in the early 1900's.
Thank You OP… do you have the impression that, for too many, reality is what is seen on a flat screen, or taken out of a paper back book.
Or the movie: Omega Man
I'm not looking forward to living in the early 1900's either, OP. In fact, I wonder if that time period might be optimistic. I'm thinking things could get back to the dark ages, with the wars and the diseases and the starvation, etc. Not a good prospect, to be sure.
I'll stick with my estimate of the1900's. In the Dark Ages people still thought that disease was caused by demons or bad air (e.g., malaria). We at least understand hygiene and have technologies like basic electricity. Give me a good pile of junk & a moving water source & I can build what I need for small scale generation.
In short, we have knowledge that even those in the late 1800's & early 1900's didn't have, and that can be powerful.
Man, I hope you're right. Actually, I pray we are all wrong and things turn around soon. But I ain't holding my breath, and I'm prepping as fast as my checkbook will allow.
Rattler Bill,
I would prefer to bug in, however; in a bug out situation, the truck will be fine. We can pack plenty of gear in it and a canoe on top. It will pack heavy but will also pack tight. Tent, tarps and cord make a shelter that can be quickly relocated. The storage system we use for our food stockpile and equipment has been packed tight. The G.O.O.D plan took us 70 minutes. With practice we hope to take it down to 30 minutes. The canoe load took the most time because we wanted to make sure it was secure and honestly because we haven't loaded it in years. It is heavier than I remembered. That is why I encourage my fellow prepared minded Brothers and Sisters to practice. I have made a commitment to practice with my equipment more often.
Take good care everyone!!!
Im jealous
I'd take the junk land approach and put any kind of travel trailer on it. I have a similar setup to M.D. Worst case leave the trailer behind and find another cheap one. It's easier that way.
J Stuart,
My book Dirt Cheap Survival Retreat will be released by Paladin Press in March and will go into great detail about my set up.
Looking forward to it, MD. Thanks for taking the time to write it.
I got me and mine out of L.A. in 1989. I was born and raised out in the San Fernando Valley. At the time it was a whole lot of groves and thin housing…. when I was a kid. When I got out in 89, the housing subdivision up in Granada Hills was selling 'from' 490….. thousand. Who bought into all that crap anyway……..? To get out of L.A. to the south… you run into Camp Pendelton or the desert around 29 Palms.. nice country…. whats on the other side…. San Diego.. more desert and Northern Mexico….. uhhhmmmmm Mexico.. theres a place ya wanna go and hide out. To GOOD to the north……. where….. someplace north of San Fransisco? Ok…. lets go West….. crappola! Who put that Ocean there……. lets head east……! After the Balboa Quake it took the Cubical Monkeys that drove in from Palmdale… thats on the north end of death valley….. +/- 14 hours to make it to Van Nuys. Google Van Nuys, Calif. and you'll see where that got em in relation to getting downtown to work. There are 100 and 1 'passes' in and out of the mountians… I've biked over most of em…. two lanes…. rock on one side…. air on the other…. and when you make it… if you make it to the other side….S – – t there's that olde mojave desert again…… nottin but sand and rocks. Bugging out of a town like L.A….. not unless Gawd appears in a piller of light a week in advance ta let you in on the reason you should have gotten outta town the week before …. She told you to in the first place. I loved my life in L.A. for the most part. Two major earth quakes and two major riots…. nuf fer me. G.O.O.D. ….. after an 'Event' No…. you won't. If you want delusions…….. try more beer or better drugs. Now what about a nice garden community like… say Detroit……. Cleveland…. oh…. say anywhere on the east coast…..
Dang….. I know where I'd like to be….. life, liberty and the persuit… is that spelled right?… is where I earn a living for now.. and that sadly is within a 2 hour drive of a city just as big as the one I live in now. An RV… In L.A. there is a joke they tell the visitors…. ".. Anybody with a good idea… will find half a million people when the get there…" Bugging out with an RV?
Tom, that was exactly what I was trying to say only you said it so much better.
I have a 5th Wheel RV and pull it with a 4×4 diesel F250. I use it to travel around the U.S. during the summer months. I usually leave it on family property when I'm not traveling. I find it better than a motor home RV because it's larger, has a larger fridge and propane tanks, and I can detach from it and drive a normal truck when I'm at a campground or at family's property. I do have a generator set and a set of solar panels. If SHTF I will not have to live in the family's house, but will be close by and have all my preps pre-positioned there. If I do have to bug out, I'll just have to jump in my 4×4 and go, not hauling a ton of stuff.
I'd recommend he preposition his RV where-ever he thinks he may go (or at least as far as the CA border) and have a smaller 4×4 to get out of the city. I'd also recommend some solar panels for when/if he doesn't have any gas for the generator. Agree with MR's recommendation for a moped type vehicle attached to the rear, if you're camped out, you don't want to have to uproot from the campground and burn 5-10 miles per gallon just to go to the local store.
Mr. Creekmore: Thank you your great site and thank you to all the people who take the time to make these great informative posts. I prefer to listen/read what others have to say, but I do have one question. What are folks thoughts on having a "pop-top" trailer as a BOV or backup temp living quarters if needed? I had one in the mid-1980s and liked it. I do not like the idea of depending on a used moterhome as opposed to a trailer hitched to my dependable SUV or van.
Was your pop-up a soft wall or a hard wall? Hard walls would be like the Aliners or the Chalets, rather than the soft walls like the Colemans. Personally, I would not go with a softwall, may as well sleep in a tent. A hard wall pop-up would be safer, IMO, and would be better against the weather than a soft wall.
I agree that towing a small trailer would be better than driving a motorhome of any size, but either style of RV is going to be a hassle if there is a massive disaster of any kind. The highways just can't handle any kind of capacity beyond the engineered design. Commute traffic tie-ups are a classic everyday example of what would happen if everybody hit the road during a disaster. Then add to it the slower flow due to motorhomes, travel trailers, and cars running out of gas or overheating and you're back to being trapped in an unsafe situation.
Somebody mentioned having a Suburban as a bugout vehicle. For a small family, that seems like a great way to go.
The bottom line to every aspect of prepping is to make a plan that suits you and whomever you may be including in those preps (spouse, kids, parents, etc.). A pop-up trailer may be perfect for your needs, but not for mine for example. Or a bug-in plan may be good for me but not for you. It's really a personal call and all we can do is offer suggestions and ideas, but ultimately the choice is up to each of us.
Welcome aboard. Good luck to you, NoCal Mickey.
Maybe a fullsize 3/4 ton van with a lockright diff in the rear would be a good towrig. Plenty of seating and storagespace.You can even find a 1 ton van used, carpet installers and etc use them alot. The suburban is a good rig especialy a 4×4 although a 2×4 vehicle with a locking diff is 2/3 to 3/4 of what a 4×4 is if you are a good driver. Steve
Lint Picker: Thank you for your helpful comments. Understood about soft vs. hard side pop tops.
Bug-in in clearly my SHTF plan and I believe I am in a relatively decent place to do so. As a family man, bug-out ("non-optimum Plan B") is what really gives me concern….
I hear alot critizing him for the rv. I think there overlooking one simple thing. Thats HIS plan. He has one and thats the first start. The next thing i would guess he would do is to pratice his plan. Remember fire dills back in school? Then he will learn what will work and what wont. With the RV he has pretty much everthing he needs, stove, place to store food, warm bed to rest, and the ability to move when needed. The advantage of have the RV is you can take a nice little trip to "pratice" and enjoy a weekend of camping. If you see something comming or think its comming you can get out in advance and if/when it passes, or doesent happen at all, all you loose is maybe a weekend camping or two.
I live in a 31 foot fifthwheel that im stocking up. I haul it with a F350 diesel that is more than able to pull it. The way i have it set up if i have to go all I have to do is hook up and pull. My blocks and such are set that with a good tug and it will roll right off. So in a matter of 5min. I can be mobile. I used to haul RV's all across the county as well as local runs from the dealers to a storage lot. In the peak season it was nothing to move 50 brand new RVs either travel trailers or fifthweels in one day. So ive had some pratice hooking and unhooking them. The key is to get familar with your rig and have a system to follow when its time to go.
In the other RV's ive had over the years ive always kept them ready. We camped alot and got to know how to do things when your conserving power and water. Generators and solar panels are nice but you can make do with out. If nothing more it keeps you dry and safe from critters that might want your food. Even with limited power and water it can be much more comfortably to have a soft bed and comfy couch to relax on. alot of cooking can be done either in the RV or out side on the camp fire. Oil lamps can provide light and small bit of heat and can last quite awhile. Havning what we call "hobo Pie makes" sandwich size cookers that you put two pieces of bread and what ever in and throw it in the fire. mmm good memoreis from them. my fav was cherry pie.
As a general rule most people that live and camp in RV's are very nice people and will offer to help you with knowledge or tools to fix somthing that brakes. But if your doing your job as an RV owner then you should know most of your systems already.
So to me having the RV as just a BOV could get him into troble if he thinks he can let it set until tshtf and then take off. if he doesent know how his systems work then hes going to learn the hard way when one fails. Ive had several times that one system or the other fails and i know how to make do. If you run out of propane you learn to cook with electric if you have it, if not you learn how to cook over an open fire.
We learned to pack more than what we may think we need becouse something always happens. Camping supplies can eaisly turn into survival supplies. If your about to get out and make it to your destination then youve got your home alerady set up with eveything you need.
Amen James. It is his plan and plans are like bellybuttons everyone has one or should.I like the trailer approach to motorcoach but that is like if you prefer vanilla or choclat icecream. Niether is wrong just different taste.No reason to flame on someone.That guy in the video likes fords I guess and I like Dodges. Nothing to fight about. I agree that most rv people are nice,I never had a bad experience with people in a rv.On our honeymoon a couple of retired silicon vally engineeres loaned us bicycles and charged the battery in our truck while we got to ride bikes out by Yesomite. Nice people doing that for total strangers. Steve
Not a bad looking rig, but shares the same problem with all self-contained RV's. Once you get where you're going you have no way to move around without taking "the house" with you. For that reason I chose a 25′ trailer. I can drop it and still have use of my truck. Get about 11 mpg with the trailer behind me. Right now my wife and I live in the rig six months out of the year working in Grand Teton National Park in the summer. Keep it stocked for bug out rest of the year. If we're attacked on the road, I'll sure as hell take a few of 'em with me. I agree with another post I read. If you have any way to get out of LA now, DO IT! Good luck.
That is a nice looking RV, and a good deal he got on it too. I have a dream to live in a van and bum around the country after my boys are grown and gone. Unless SHTF before that. I will give all my preps to my sons except for what I need with me in my van. I'm talking about a regular white "work truck" type cargo van that can be stealthy and park anywhere and not look out of place. Of course it will be all tricked out on the inside.
I realize that this dream may never come to pass, because I can't go until at least 2015, and who knows what the world will look like then? I will probably end up bugging in here and trying to survive with my family. But I can dream, right? I am actually planning for 2 different futures, realizing that only 1 will come to pass. If SHTF after I am out living in a van, hopefully I will have done enough traveling to know where would be a good place to go to hunker down.
Before anyone tells me what a dangerous plan this is, I Know. It is taking a risk with my safety and survival. But I want to do it anyway. I have some ramblin' to get out of my system. And who knows, I may end up in a better place when it all comes down.
Christine, your idea sounds perfectly fine. There are many women who travel around, alone, and enjoy themselves very much. I've met some of them on my own solo travels. Some of them pull small travel trailers, some drive motorhomes and some use old VW vans or converted moving vans.
Only problem with a converted delivery van-type vehicle is the fuel consumption and the inability to go offroad. But maybe you wouldn't want to go offroad?
I've been looking at these things. The Ford Transit Connect.
Best of luck to you.
My brother move TO Kalifornia nearly a year ago to take a federal job. He drives 30 miles to the train and then rides the train for 1.5-2 hours each way. He says as he is riding he looks at the disaster that is Kalifornia. He states that most busines's back lots are full of RV's and as stated in the video the Wal Mart type stores have many RV's parked in them. Even with the Federal job he is slowly going broke trying to live the Kaliforia life.
Folks, reality has to intrude here. An RV is great to have, but one must see the limitations. You must have a place to go, a place you own, because I guarantee you that people who own land aren't going to let you set up camp on their property. If you plan on escaping to public land, you and everybody else will have the same idea. And most of those who have that idea won't have any preps, so yours will be fair game to them. Plus, just think about the chaos on the roads. I'm not sure an RV could make it very far if a crisis developed quickly, or if one hesitated long enough to see how a crisis might play out.
I know this is very difficult for many to contemplate, but my advice would be to get out of big cities right now, or as soon as humanly possible. Buy some land in a rural state, park your RV there if you have one, or build a small cabin. You will be surprised how much better your quality of life is.
And besides, you will want to learn how to garden, raise chickens and livestock, and get to know your neighbors before the SHTF. If you drive an RV into an area where you aren't known, suffice it to say you won't have the connections with your neighbors you need to have. Just my .02 cents.
Sound advice, templar knight.
In a SHTF situation, I want to make myself as small as possible and as inconspicuous as possible. Some of us will have no choice, we'll have to stay put. Others will have to leave, their homes will be detroyed or occupied or uninhabitable for some other reason. That's why having a couple of backup plans is important. We just don't know what to expect.
greetings. When I was in the U.S. Marines they told us to always have a plan before going into combat. and to always have a back up plan because whatever plan you had to start with would automatically fail soon as the fight started. actually better to have a number of alternate plans all set up so you are not stuck doing things in one way only. another thing would be never to let anyone outside of your immediate group know what your plans are. you never know who will be the enemy.
Hey there "Lint-Picker" I hate to tell ya this, but Stockton just made the top of the list as of two days ago. I was raised just outside of Stockton on Dunns Ferry Road. I think its now called AirPort Blvd. It was a milk dairy, a class B, (cans) and last I heard it was a parking lot! Perhaps thats why I never went back after Viet-Nam.
Anyway folks, the news lately on "GOP.GOV " web site is that the Obamacare has a certain law that will go into effect January 2013 and that is that whom so ever sells a residence or whatever, will have to pay uncle sugar 3.8% of the profits as a federal sales tax. Fun huh? Neve told us that one did they?
As for bugging out with a vehicle, I have my Jeep Wrangler TJ and am in the process of building a off road trailer to pull behing. A friend has a YJ Jeep and a Casita 16 travel trailer that he has already set-up. The Jeep pulls it like its not even there.
When I retired, like so many others, I purchased a older motorhome and eventually up-graded to a 2004 Allegro. Really enjoy the motorhome, but lets face it, when I get in a hurry, its the jeep and the little trailer.
I've installed electrical and things to support the RV in the driveway, but other than that, it will sit in a covered barn less than 6 minutes away.
It also is partially set-up. Fueled and all, and the food can be loaded in just a few minutes. Did a burn-in trial run to see how things would work out. In about 20 minutes, we could actually be on our way towing the jeep and loaded with the necessities.
At the present time, I'm having to figure out how to take care of my daughter and her two children who just moved in. Thanks to the slowdown of construction, my son-in-law who is a sub-contractor, basically lost his business as well as his truck and the rental home they were living in. This sort of thing is happening all over our country. Who is exactly to blame? Wish I knew. "Vengence is mine, saith the Lord."
Our country is really going down the tubes as all of us know. The thought of civil disobedience to rectify and take our country back could be a reality. Therefore, home schooling may be the only way for children to obtain a well rounded education. Communes may be a defacto item. Fuel, food and the other necessities of life may be in short supply. Where is it all going? I don't know, do any of you?
All of us talk about getting out of Dodge when the time comes, but who will take the initiative to bring "Law and Order" to a corrupt and corroded nation beset by greedy men? Who?
I will ensure that my family is taken care of first- – – perhaps then- – some of us will take that initative. Perhaps Samuel Colt will have to ride again.
Texas RedNeck, so Stockton is now the foreclosure capital of CA? Well, same reason as Fresno, no doubt. Unemployment in the state is 12% and much higher in the Valley. No water, no work, no dinero.
Sam Colt and William Ruger.
I'm right there with you, pardner. Why run? Better to stand and keep what's rightfully ours. I'm not as fast as I used to be, but I've still got a limber index finger. And my middle finger is pretty limber, too. 🙂
When we sold the ranch in the Sierra foothills in 2005 the unemployment rate had been running at about 12 to almost 14% for several years prior. Glad we got out of California when we did.
MD…….. I got my CD…… how da ya open this thing?
It should automatically display a folder "ITEOTWAWKI" click on this and it will open up to display the files inside – click on each to see the contents.
greetings. i seem to be traveling a road less taken by anyone else here. I have a 1983 Dodge pick up (people always say. I didn't know Dodge made a truck) that i am putting a slant six engine out of a 1985, the last year dodge made a slant six truck engine, have all the gaskets and stuff to do a minor overhaul on it and on it's 4 speed plus overdrive stick trans. will have a unit on the engine to allow it to run on either gasoline or on carbon monoxide. sounds strange but carbon monoxide makes a better fuel then propane and you can make you own as you travel out of wood scraps like branches lying alongside the road. you simply put the wood or other flamable items like grass or hay into the burner and then smolder it. the smoke is high in monoxide. are articles on this fuel in Farm show magazine showing vehicles that have been converted. with such a unit on board or towed in a small trailer behind you the question of going beyond where gas is available no longer matters at all. such units were used by the british during world war 2 but not made on the vehicle but in a gas house and fed to big bags on their roofs. was also used by the German Military, and they are certainsly no dummys when it comes to engineering. are sites on the web about the process and it is even the subject of a FEMA plan for emergency agriculture use, how to convert a farm tractor to run on wood gas. the same generation plant for monoxide can be used when the vehicle is not being driven to power other engines like generators or used to work cook gas stoves as well. I know most people on here are not old enough to know that city gas in the cities like detroit Michigan did not come from a gas well but from gas houses that every city had that produced monoxide from garbage or coal and sent it through pipes all over the city. so with my old pickup i can take off with a full tank of gas, a canoe or short pram on the top of my enclosed back bed area where i load gear and stuff like camping tents and stuff. towing my 12 foot travel trailer. when i get to where i can no longer get gasoline i would just switch over to monoxide and continue to travel. and the 2 wheel drive pick up is better then a 4 wheel drive model because of a number of reasons. one being a 2 wheeler will get much better mileage and have a enormous amount of parts needed by a 4 wheel drive model missing. my old Dodge has no computer system on it. has a remote battery switch under the hood to charge a remote 12 vote battery i carry in my trailer for use when i am parked. is super simple and i can fix near anything that can go wrong on it right out there on the road. Which if you have a modern truck you can forget about. also there were tests made comparing 4 wheel drive to 2 wheel drive trucks by one of the big Japanese auto companies. the took the same model. one 4 wheel drive and one 2 wheel drive cross country through all kinds of country. they found that when the 2 wheel drive finally could go no further the 4 wheel drive passed it and made 50 feet before it couldn't go any further either. my own experience with them is that the 4 wheel drive gives you enough confidence to get your self into situations where with a 2 wheeler you would never go into. try calling a tow truck for a 4 wheeler stuck in the mud miles from any road and you will see what i mean. have fun that is what life is for.
Actually wood gas contains a mixture of carbon monoxide, hydrogen, and methane plus some tar and particulates. It should generally be scrubbed (by bubbling it through a water bath) prior to introduction to an engine. If you start with a good hard wood, you can end up with a byproduct of charcoal, usable for both cooking and heating duties.
Greetings. that is what the scrubber is for on the gas generator. to remove the tar and particulates. and the charcoal is a bonus. but as i mentioned you can use the monoxide output to directly fuel a gas stove and oven like they used to use in all the cities in the past, before pipelines brought petroleum gas from wells to them. and if you put on a good sized generator or alternator on your engine in the truck you can produce enough power to take care of your needs by simply turning the pick up into a power generation station. are AC alternators that are belt driven that you can simply add on the side of your motor and power through a extra pulley on your crankshaft pulley. many have a extra one there anyway for a air conditioner pump to use. with one on your motor you could use 110 volt AC in your trailer or cabin if you have one and not need to buy all the expensive DC models that run on 12 volt. and the 110 alternator generator only runs a close to $300 dollars and the noise then is only your engine loafing along since it only takes about 15 horse power to run the generator alternator. with a good muffler that is just a murmur that very few would notice from a hundred feet away. is no small engine driving the generator set that makes as much noise as a bull dozer working hard. and no small motor to burn out in a short time because you are using it at its maximum capacity and that also sucks gas up like a thirsty camel soaks up water in the desert. to run the unit as a generator set up it would be a good idea to use the heavy duty radiator that has more core channels in it for cooling while not moving. Still there are many ways one can survive using things that everyone ignores as primitive. is like using a black powder rifle instead of a modern one not because it is more efficent, but because the sound from it is very hard to pin point and it is not heard for as great a distance as a high powered rifle is. Still have fun with life. after all you already know you are going to lose sooner or later. none of us leaves this world alive.
greetings. another thing comes to mind from your mention of charcoal. we heat our log home with a wood stove and of course end up having to shovel the firebox out on occasion when it gets to full of ash and embers. I shovel it out into a metal garbage can and put the lid on tight. keeps air out mostly. several days later when the can cools off i take the contents and screen them to remove any thing other then wood ash. the wood ash that goes through the screen goes in a container for use in the garden. and the stuff that won't go through the screen i sort and pick out the little pieces of metal from our trash that we burn in the stove rather then haul to the land fill . what then is left is charcoal. some times when the stove had to be emptied when there were a lot of glowing embers in it i would get about half of what i shoveled out as high grade hardwood charcoal. in the catalog i got from the advertiser/sponsor of this site they mention that so many 20 pound bags of charcoal would supply a family with cooking fuel for a year. they recommend storing it in 5 gallon plastic pails with a tight cover to keep moisture out. I just put my saved charcoal from the wood stove in such and seal them up. for no cost other then a little labor i have a charcoal supply for about forever. have fun thinking of other ways around things.
I love it, excellent buy and an excellent presentation of the video. Well done.
A Woodsrunner's Diary.
The inmates are taking over the asylum.
Enjoyed your video. If you have to bug out (with food etc) and go to the boonies at least you can drive as far as possible then strip your van of items you will need for comfort in your new shelter.
greetings. why all the talk on here about if it is "moral" to default on a home mortgage. you are familiar with what is going on, i would assume, so where do you see morals in it? the government is now talking of stealing our entire social security savings to pay for the war. they are taking money they took by us by force out of our paychecks to pay for our retirement. now they decide that our money is theirs and they are only doing us a favor by keeping our savings and giving it to the same banks that are foreclosing on the people for being unemployed and unable to pay for their inflated mortgage. i have to wonder if you would feel it is so honorable to destroy your own family trying to pay the high interest rates on a home that you cannot afford to keep. you, of course would let your children starve so the multimillionair banker could have a little more money to sink in a off shore bank. I feel sorry for you. but more sorry for your family that you sound so willing to sell out to fatten someone already so rich they could never spend even the interest they earn on the money they already have.
Greetings. on the home repossessions. do you note on the television they are still running infomersals on Become a Millionaire by buying real estate with no money down and reselling it. people apparently are still buying that bull and still trying to become millionaires with the real estate scams. is it any wonder that a lot of homes get repossessed?
For anyone "walking away" or doing a short sale or having debt forgiven PLEASE talk to a tax accountant. I don't mean one of these pople who sets up shop for three months every year in a big box store to do your taxes I mean a "tax accountant". It is probable that some of these choices will cost you money with the IRS. For example if you had a $10,000 debt that was "excused" the IRS considers it a $10,000 gift and you will owe tax on it.
It is also possible that you cannot walk away from some debts. For example with a straightforward mortgage with a bank if you walk away the bank "may" only have recourse to sell the house and not against you or your assets. However if it is a second mortgage or a line of credit with your home as collateral after you walk away they can come after you and your income and your assets.
It's a complex question and you need to know the answer before you decide. You may not like the answer but knowing the facts will prevent you from making a disasterous dicision.
I found this slide show on YouTube check these bad boys out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oC2VWJqON1Y I am going to see what I can find out about them, but from the looks of them they could be pulled anywhere, and look like they are very well built. I agree with Gary I think that this is they way things are going. I am looking at putting one of these on a piece of property, so that I have some where to go.
greetings. speaking of a bug out vehicle. when i lived in Paradise Mich on the shore of Lake Superior people would buy a few or 10 acre parcel of mostly woods with no improvements for cheap and haul a pick up camper to it, set the camper detacted from the pick up on blocks and use it as their hunting camp and vacation cabin. there they would also use them to use as bases for snow mobiling since motel rooms would run around a hundred dollars a night during the season. the thing about a pick up camper is it is detachable. many have a small gas stove and oven as well as propane heating built in. not much room in one. but easy to hide. not noticeable at all if you don't know it is there under a pile of brush. aluminum usually and self contained. and no longer popular so no huge price on a unit in good condition. and if one was interested one could build a simple straw bale enclosure to have it in that would protect it from the weather and blend into the surroundings as well. all kinds of alternatives.
greetings. along with the bug out vehicle item. is the current issue of Backwoodshome magazine out now that has a article in it in building a super economical composting toilet out of a 5 gallon pair and using saw dust. costs next to nothing. compost the night soil and use it as fertilizer and don't have to put in a septic tank or a expensive composting toilet commercial version. is a book on it called Humanure that runs $25 i believe they list it as. human manure is considered a fertilizer in about all of the world other then north America. here it is a toxic waste product that can easily contaminate your retreat water supply.
Just wait till your fancy RV's hit their first roadblock/ambush. y'all are silly.
Rattler Bill, everyone does the best with what they have. I don't plan to bug out in my "fancy" RV. I will just stay put. But my RV, which is not so fancy, will provide me with extra sleeping for the family that is sure to arrive, a generator and propane for cooking, so I am glad to own. it. Would I like to own 10 acres in the wilderness, sure, but that is not going to happen, so I will work with what I already own and defend what is mine as long as I can.
When your tank or tanks of propane run out what then. Forget driving anywhere. If you are going to live in it in your driveway, just stay in your house. And as far as defending it goes someone with a .22 LR can shoot all the way through and out the other side. One 30 rnd burst with SS109 steel core 5.56X45 and it's your coffin./If you want to stay in that then hide it in the boonies and get motorcycles to get there. You still have the energy problems. You cannot rely on canned or freeze dried foods, they won't last long enough. YOU will have to hunt for your food, with a .22 because of the noise. You will find yourself in the18th century frontier of America
We are not talking about a nice little family outing for a couple of days.What we are tlking about is mob rule. Join it or go Jeremiah Johnson. Thr truth hurts, that's why you have to face it.
If you think liven in the woods is gonna keep you safe or that its even practical then you are fooling yourself. Go watch some more TV and have a valid idea next time.
Sounds like you been watchin' too much TV yourself. I hjave lived off the land and it was good to me. I can kill or catch everything that swims crawls walks or flies.
And they ate all very tasty.
Ok learn to spell and you can have fun willfully becoming a refugee out in the middle of the woods with every other person that dosent have a clue. Plenty of people have survived in the cities when things like plagues, wars, and other things have been happening around them. Look at Beruit, Iraq, somalia,ect people still live and survive in these places with out the (safety) of the woods.
Greetings. Kyle. and where do you think would be a safe place to make a stand if not in the woods where few people go?
Why do you have to make a stand? Exactly who is gonna come after you? If you say rioters or Hungry people I would say Why do people know you have food and you think you are the sole person someone wants to loot? Scince I know a few thing about fighting in a city I would say your best bet is to stay home, recruit your neighbors now before anything happens, and maby have a safe place a little farther away from a major metropolis. Looters don't scare me. Why should they no one knows what I have and I have plenty of people I trust to watch my back so why run to the middle of nowhere and wait to die or wait for Rattler Bill to mistaken me for a deer.
Greetings. I believe i have mentioned it here earlier. but if you have spent any time in the woods you would notice that you can hear a high power rifle or pistol one hell of a long way. .22 LR only a short distance unless you go for the high speed editions that are really lousy if you intend to eat what you shot. I've shot squirrels out of trees with high speed LR Wildcats and they come down already torn apart no need to gut them, they don't have any. but you have to use them right away because they are all blood shot from the hydraulic effect the hollow point high speeds have. now i pay a little more and use ordinary target hollow points. much less destruction and meat damage. for heavy game i use a .54 Caliber Hawken black powder. the report from a black powder rifle is totally unlike that of a high power and travels a lot less. add to that it is a muted sound and very difficult to pin point what direction it came from. and being black powder it is only a single shot. not the repeat shots from a ordinary hunting rifle. even if you do hear the first shot. there is no second for one to home in on. and the .54 is the buffalo version which can be used with up to 120 grains of black powder. for small game get a little .32 or .36 squirrel gun. cheap to shoot and pretty quite as well. and a target hit with a .54 lead bullet, hollow point, is not going anywhere, even if it is a full grown bull moose or buffalo. remember the .45/70 black powder buffalo round only had 70 grains of powder in it. this is near double.
greetings. just a thought. the fancy RV might not be that bad a choice. it would attract attention and people trying to rob the people in it. but as a magnet for people it could well serve its purpose toward survival by being bait. have the vehicle parked where they can get to it. wait in the shadows outside it with maybe a cross bow. take them out as they try to sneak up on the RV. in the morning strip the bodies of anything of use, like firearms and ammunition. maybe cigarettes or cigars, drag them into the bush and bury them in a shallow grave and then the next night do it again. in a very short time you will run out of targets at night. are only so many bandits in any area. just a thought for when things are serious of course.
yeah ewll more people die in cities under siege than people WHO KNOW HOW TO LIVE OFF THE LAND. Go on stay in your house and lock your doors, that will keep everybody out right, I mean according to your statement. Yeah look at Bierut, Somalia, No one died there right, you nincompoots are so silly, thinking your house will save you.
No I don't think my house will keep me safe from everything but its where my food, gear, and supplies are. I know my neighbors and the surronding area very well so why go somewhere else if I don't need to? Plus there is alot more than a locked door at my house to keep me and my family safe. I don't expect the "green machine" to protect me besides I never had more than eight guys watching my back anyways, like I said I have friends and peolple I trust. Yes people died in those places but life still went on people adapted the ones that couldn't died. The idea that just because you are in a city your automatically dead is stupid.
OK Kyle so you fought in some cities, I salute you sir. Thank you for your service. But you won't have that big green machine backing you up this time. They may even be the ones coming after you. If I shot you in the woods in would not be because I mistook you for a deer
Yep – Every good hunter knows that target identification is critical 🙂
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