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― D Aziz (esquire1983), Sunday, 21 September 2003 19:53 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
Why is law school preferable to you to working for a few years to figure out what you want to do? There are lots of jobs available to graduates of colleges such as yours (if I remember correctly).
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 21 September 2003 20:10 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
There are many many different flavors of lawyering out there, but even if one doesn't suit you, you can be a law librarian or a teacher or a politician for sure, or maybe offer legal advice to the poor.
― teeny (teeny), Sunday, 21 September 2003 20:24 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
What is your idea of hell? Does it involve a difficult course of study or the idea of doing hard, tedious work? Does it involve competition among classmates? Does it involve great financial burdens or rewards?
Your job opportinities after law school will include jobs that require a law degree + jobs that do not require a law degree - jobs that require a medical degree or other specialized graduate degree (and likely minus professional athlete and ballerina). Alternatives to law school include alternate higher education, getting a job or being unemployed.
(basically what gabbneb said)
In all seriousness, however, your questions seem to indicate that it is very important to you what other people think you should do with your life. Deciding whether to take on the potentially huge debt burden of law school is probably one of the worst life decisions you can make by committee. If you have to borrow money for law school, your family, friends and classmates aren't going to be the ones with the huge debt load around their neck, you are. Even if you don't have to borrow money for law school, well, in this economy I'm sure there are tons of people who would gladly take your place off the wait list if you decided to defer.
My completely subjective impression has been that once you get a job and can do it the only people who are sensitive about where you went to law school are those who went to really elite law schools or those who went to really obscure law schools. It really doesn't matter if you can do the job unless you have your heart set on being a constitutional law professor at Yale law school straight after graduation.
Some lawyers do, in fact seem dissatisfied with their lives because it seemed like the easy thing to do and they were peer/parent pressured into going to law school straight out of college, worked many years at a job they hated to pay off their student loans and then wished they hadn't spent the best years of their lives doing that. It may be worth a year or more of deferring and doing something you've always wanted to do -- travel, apply for fellowships, explore other careers, bartending on a resort island, mooching off your parents -- whatever you feel like doing. Either you will have fewer regrets about things you might have wanted to try in life or you will have a greater appreciation of having the option of studying for a coveted professional degree that many people not as fortunate as you never have the realistic option of pursuing.
Hope that helps and good luck.
― felicity (felicity), Monday, 22 September 2003 06:37 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― D Aziz (esquire1983), Monday, 22 September 2003 15:46 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
gabb and felicity both raised good points. i have some points, too, but i'll do it WHEN I'M DONE WITH THIS FUCKING MEMO!
― Little Big Macher (llamasfur), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 04:05 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― teeny (teeny), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 15:57 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― David. (Cozen), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 16:04 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 16:37 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― David. (Cozen), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 16:41 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― David. (Cozen), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 16:45 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
Felicity's post above is very well-written and helpful, but I have a few more questions.
Firstly, I am not native to the US (originally from England), and it has been a while since I have been involved with academia, so I have no idea how to start this process.
Which resources should I be using to find the right schools and how to apply?
Which tests will I need to take (GREs, LSATs, etc.) and what sort of entry requirements are there?
When will I need to start applying?
I am not particularly concerned with attending the biggest and best, but if I am going to be in for financial hardships then I need to justify it for myself. I'm based in California, so I guess I would be looking at schools here first.
― D Marchand, Sunday, 8 February 2004 21:28 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
if you want to go to l-school this fall, i think that it might be too late for some -- if memory serves me correctly, applications are due feb. 1 or (maybe?) march 1. you have to contact each individual school.
california has some very good l-schools. Stanford and Cal-Berkeley (Boalt Hall) obviously. ucla, cal-davis, cal-hastings, and loyola-marymount are also very good. the rest, i dunno. i would avoid the ones that aren't ABA-accredited (and CA has a number of those) -- b/c you won't be able to sit for any bar exam outside of CA if you go to one of those.
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 8 February 2004 21:41 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
Actually, I'm talking about applying for NEXT fall, 2005.
Do some schools specialize in certain law disciplines more than others? Is an English BA an acceptable degree for application or do they favor law undergrads?
― D Marchand, Sunday, 8 February 2004 21:46 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― D Marchand, Sunday, 8 February 2004 21:47 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
Also, you should strongly consider taking an LSAT prep course if you can swing it. If nothing else, buy a book on it and practice.
― don weiner, Sunday, 8 February 2004 21:55 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
There is no undergrad law major at most top American colleges. An English BA is completely acceptable, common even, and I don't think any one major is favored. I wonder at times if the sciences aren't better preparation for legal study than the humanities.
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 8 February 2004 22:03 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
Last but not least, people that attended/still attend law school - is it everything you had hoped for (for whatever reason you decided to go)? Would you recommend it?
― D Marchand, Sunday, 8 February 2004 22:10 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
i would recommend trying to get some inside info on whatever law school it is that you will attend -- you will spend 3 years there, so you might as well go where it won't be too painful.
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 8 February 2004 22:49 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
But that's a separate question from whether I would recommend it. D, I'm just not sure how to answer that. Law school in and of itself is neither good nor bad. As some posters have suggested upthread, that question can only be judged in relation to what you want in life and work.
If you have a strong desire to practice law (lawyer) or to create law (politics, legislation, lobbying, policy-making) then law school is the way to go. If however you suspect that your heart is really elsewhere (publishing, journalism, teaching, business, etc), then I'd say think real hard about whether 3 yrs of law school is the best way to get there. And if you're not sure about what you want to do, then I'd say law school is not the right place for you now. Maybe later it will be, but not now.
Sorry if this sounds redundant and obvious.
― Collardio G. (collardio), Sunday, 8 February 2004 23:14 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
I'm about a month or so away from hearing from law schools (I got some good advice on old threads which I'll try to find). Law schools like people who have worked and have diverse experience, so don't think that your background is a negative.
Biggest thing I'd reiterate is to really make sure you want to invest the time and money (average debt leaving law school is $100,000). It's understood that law school is highly competitive -- both to get in and once you're there -- in the sense of the school you get into and how well you do have a major impact on your career. Not that that should necessarily guide you, but just know it upfront.
Oh. And for $10 or $20, you can look at the US News law school rankings online. They'll give you a good sense of what sorts of grades and LSAT scores get you into what schools.
― Aaron W (Aaron W), Sunday, 8 February 2004 23:33 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― D Aziz (esquire1983), Sunday, 8 February 2004 23:38 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― Collardio Gelatinous (collardio), Monday, 9 February 2004 00:56 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
You've already heard about the cost, which is significant. You should enjoy speaking in public and be confident about your ability to do so, and you should be competitive by nature--these qualities will serve you well. Think hard about your decision; many of my law school classmates were completely miserable. It's great for some, but it isn't for everyone. Good Luck!
― webcrack (music=crack), Monday, 9 February 2004 05:14 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― webcrack (music=crack), Monday, 9 February 2004 05:28 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
Now she wishes she'd stayed in, as we would be rich. And, probably, the whole dealing-with-me thing.
― Begs2Differ, Monday, 9 February 2004 05:50 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― hstencil, Monday, 9 February 2004 06:04 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
but you still gotta spend 3 years there and get the JD in order to sit for the bar and (if you pass) practice.
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 9 February 2004 06:07 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 9 February 2004 06:08 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― Colin Meeder (Mert), Monday, 9 February 2004 07:52 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― D Aziz (esquire1983), Monday, 9 February 2004 08:31 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― Colin Meeder (Mert), Monday, 9 February 2004 08:55 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
Not necessarily; it's a decent living, but there is no guarantee of richness--plenty of other careers will bring salaries as high as attorney salaries. Also, in order to make the big bucks, you need to bill upwards of 2000 hours/year, and in order to do this generally must work around 70 hours per week. When you break it down, the time/money ratio can really suck.
― webcrack (music=crack), Monday, 9 February 2004 16:17 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 9 February 2004 16:51 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― Colin Meeder (Mert), Monday, 9 February 2004 16:55 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― gygax! (gygax!), Monday, 9 February 2004 17:23 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― webcrack (music=crack), Monday, 9 February 2004 17:26 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
I will be joining a City firm as a trainee soon. I feel apprehensive to say the least...
― regret, Monday, 9 February 2004 19:50 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― Colin Meeder (Mert), Monday, 9 February 2004 20:59 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:04 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― D Aziz (esquire1983), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:09 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― Colin Meeder (Mert), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:12 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:16 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:18 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
On the other hand, if you are willing to work your ass off to make something work and starve for a few years after law school, there are good jobs as a lawyer to be had.
x-post: all of the smartest, most interesting paralegals I ever worked with who took the job as a taste test all decided to do something else with their lives.
― Colin Meeder (Mert), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:19 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:22 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― Colin Meeder (Mert), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:23 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― Colin Meeder (Mert), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:24 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:26 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 9 February 2004 21:28 (thirteen years ago) Permalink
haha cool i dont really know anything abt it btw
― johnny crunch, Friday, 1 February 2013 22:52 (four years ago) Permalink
the rude awakening is now he looks in the mirror and sees a lawyer
― iatee, Friday, February 1, 2013 5:33 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
If you "read on" you actually see that things didn't work out so badly for me. I'm in a smaller firm at a good salary, my work is relatively interesting, and I get to see my family. And staying on in my firm and making partner is actually not so crazy -- not like the 1/7 or 1/10 or whatever shot you have in biglaw.
My work also sometimes involves ERISA sometimes, although it doesn't require me to be steeped in the arcana of the statutory scheme.
― space phwoar (Hurting 2), Friday, 1 February 2013 23:01 (four years ago) Permalink
Yeah, me neither. My area is employee benefits litigation so it's pretty straight forward (except when it's a total mess, but that's kind of fun, too).
I work in biglaw but as a staff attorney (so not partner track) which is pretty sweet. I get the perks of biglaw (well, aside from the huge salary) without the pressure.
― carl agatha, Friday, 1 February 2013 23:15 (four years ago) Permalink
i do a lot of freelance "litigation support" for biglaw, and yeah afaict staff attys know what's up
― Still S.M.D.H. ft. (will), Friday, 1 February 2013 23:22 (four years ago) Permalink
If you know why you are going, have a specific sub-specialty in mind, and plan on hanging out your own shingle or have a good network away from large law firms, you should feel great. Otherwise, you should feel like a sucker now and avoid the rush in three years.
wish i had this advice when i started.
een, i highly recommend you check out this article. it's one i wish i had read before choosing to take the plunge. the social mobility bit about the vague aspirational middle class law school hopes really hit home for me.
for some context i'm at law school in canada, but am in a similar situation to spectrum's. dealt with a lot of depression type stuff last year, plus the whole realization of "i have no idea why i'm here in the first place." so i'm deferring my 3rd year until september just to kind of get my depression settled down and figure my life out a bit. it's going pretty ok so far; the funny thing is that the people who like the idea most are lawyers =_=
still not entirely sure of what's gonna be in store for me when i return. not sure if i wanna practice or not i guess. i kinda find the majority of my colleagues hideous and depressing (although a select few are truly wonderful). i think i might be able to get myself back in gear school-wise and look for work. right now i'm thinking that i could just be selective and not spring for a law job immediately after graduation. just take my time to find a firm where i actually like the people. i'm blessed with having kind middle-class parents who used like all their money to fund my (cheap) canadian legal education, so i'm not in debt.
is there such thing as a low-stress (relatively speaking) law job? does that exist in family law? i'm thinking it might be nice to shoot for family law mediation. there's new legislation in my province that basically funnels every family court case to mediation, so i imagine there'll be lots of opportunities there. it also seems like an ~~existentially rewarding~~ career path, fwiw (which is a lot to me).
one of the big worries i have is that even in family law mediation, you're still subject to a lot of the agonies and horrors of family law in general. anyone know anything about this? i'm wondering if me, a sensitive individual, would be able to handle it. i left largely cuz of stress (shocker) and i found that despite being really quite good at trial advocacy, i might have had a hard time dealing with the adrenaline-rush cutthroat nature of it all. it kinda sucks that my greatest lawyer strength is the thing that seemingly gave me the biggest headache, but eh. hopefully a door opens as that window closes, ya know.
this ended up being a minor soliliquy i see. whoops
― cocktail onion (fennel cartwright), Friday, 1 February 2013 23:30 (four years ago) Permalink
even anxious, non-confrontational introverts can learn to (sometimes) love and be good at the cutthroat stuff. i can't see anything in family law being low stress but i don't know about mediation. would they want you to have experience outside of mediation first? it's probably hard to select that specifically in the beginning when you're just looking for any opportunity.
― veryupsetmom (harbl), Friday, 1 February 2013 23:37 (four years ago) Permalink
i swing between loving and hating my publ1c d3f3nd3r job so wildly and often think i could enjoy something more dry and regulatory but i'm moving up the ladder pretty fast here and want loan forgiveness so i'm not gonna leave anytime soon
― veryupsetmom (harbl), Friday, 1 February 2013 23:39 (four years ago) Permalink
ilxmailed u een
― 乒乓, Friday, 1 February 2013 23:56 (four years ago) Permalink
yeah, in my province you have to work at a firm for 3 years before you can get certified as a family law mediator
and i dunno. i had a very hard time learning to love the cutthroat stuff, although i did get reasonably decent at it. i came like SO close to actually loving it - or, uh, convincing myself i loved it. i have a beastmode trigger deep down that seems to go off when i'm in high pressure situations like trials. but, like... i hate that beastmode trigger, and i hate how it turns me into a ravenous adrenaline junkie. so yeah... here i am thinking about mediation. ok then
― cocktail onion (fennel cartwright), Saturday, 2 February 2013 00:09 (four years ago) Permalink
i did some regulatory law work for the ag's in my state ... i don't think there's a more boring area of law out there. it's like living inside the head of humphrey from yes minister. i did get to do some pretty cool corruption stuff, and i think i unknowingly assisted in some of it, but that probably comes with the territory... there was def an interesting vibe going on there.
fennel, if you're sensitive then i'd imagine you'd have to learn how to get a thicker skin or learn to be able to let go if you're going to be working in an emotionally-charged area like family law. i did some criminal law with a family flavor at the PDs office during law school and it was downright depressing sometimes. even when i was proud of myself for doing a good job, it was like "was I really right to do that?" like getting some deadbeat dad/serial wife beater a lighter than expected probation, I felt gross about it. conflict is pretty much the job of an advocate, both b/t the parties, and sometimes your own personal morals, and you're thrust into the middle of some of the darkest moments in peoples' lives. it's not an easy job, at least in my opinion.
― Spectrum, Saturday, 2 February 2013 00:12 (four years ago) Permalink
oh yeah, various xposts
it takes at least a year to start feeling like the adversarial stuff is bothering you less. it's hard but it's always there so you just grow into it. interesting subject matter and stories and always something very absurd to laugh at is what keeps me going. i never, ever feel gross or guilty about helping someone who did something shitty, no matter how shitty it is. really. oddly i'm not sure how i'd feel about representing union-busting corporations or polluters. part of it is i never feel like the state is doing the right thing either, i guess. that's not all of it though. i don't think i get the existentially rewarding effect from anything, but i do get excited about people who do bad stuff. they're just interesting. you don't have to like what they do.
― veryupsetmom (harbl), Saturday, 2 February 2013 00:24 (four years ago) Permalink
yeah, not everyone's made for it. i do understand some of that appeal, though ... everyday going into the office was like the intro montage to one of those old cop shows. crazy homeless people spinning around in the streets holding up traffic, drug deals in broad daylight, prostitutes hanging out on the corner, people playing dice on the wall of police station. it had this kind-of thrilling anarchy to it, but i couldn't stop thinking about the people involved when i actually argued matters... took away from some of the street justice/maury povich appeal.
turning point for me was when my supervisor was representing this guy who chopped up his wife and kids and threw 'em out in garbage bags like it was garbage day. being face to face with that guy made me want to throw up.
― Spectrum, Saturday, 2 February 2013 01:05 (four years ago) Permalink
I'm p-side and I do a lot of investor litigation, so I never have to feel too bad about who or what I'm representing. At worst I might be working on a meh case that will do no one any significant harm, at best I'm helping a municipal pension fund recover from investment fraud or helping individuals recover retirement savings. I guess since it's all more financial and abstract I also don't have to see the ugliest sides of humanity, although the downside is that it can feel very detached.
― space phwoar (Hurting 2), Saturday, 2 February 2013 03:09 (four years ago) Permalink
Hope dayo dissuades anyone from going to lawl school praise Jesus
― buzza, Saturday, 2 February 2013 03:45 (four years ago) Permalink
― buzza, Saturday, 2 February 2013 03:48 (four years ago) Permalink
This is really good
― space phwoar (Hurting 2), Saturday, 2 February 2013 03:49 (four years ago) Permalink
buzza! ;-)
― 乒乓, Saturday, 2 February 2013 04:07 (four years ago) Permalink
hey, how's ls going anyway?
― space phwoar (Hurting 2), Saturday, 2 February 2013 04:07 (four years ago) Permalink
family law is as close to hell on earth as a person can get. plus family law clients don't like paying their bills. i don't know why anyone in their right mind would concentrate on that area if they have other options.
estate litigation can get just as nasty as family law, but usually at least you know there's some money there to make it all worthwhile.
― i have a history of enabling your mother. (Eisbaer), Saturday, 2 February 2013 09:15 (four years ago) Permalink
fennel, what prov are you in? I always forget there are more Canadians on ILX than I remember.
Stuck in the final 24 hours of a factum for my Supreme Court advocacy class which was supposed to be fascinating and awesome and mostly is except group work is the worst and trying to write a 35ish page factum with four people is actually probably way more difficult/tedious than just doing it yourself. And thus. I'm resigning myself to not fiddle too much with the sections I didn't write and won't be arguing, esp because the class is Pass/Fail but it is taking substantial amounts of restraint sometimes.
― twinkin' and drinkin' and ready to fly (Alex in Montreal), Monday, 4 February 2013 01:34 (four years ago) Permalink
Gonna slip blissfully in the mindless detail work of citations after scarfing down dinner and hope that helps destress.
― twinkin' and drinkin' and ready to fly (Alex in Montreal), Monday, 4 February 2013 01:36 (four years ago) Permalink
hey alex, i'm in BC. vancouver to be exact. i assume you're at mcgill? what are you looking at after school?
had a nice conversation with one of my two real friends at law school. was a little reassuring. seems like something i might be able to ease back into. needs some thinking in the meantime.
i understand family law proper is hellish. but i wonder if family law mediation would be fundamentally different than family law. i wouldn't even have to practice family law 3 years to be a certified mediator in BC; it can be any area of law and then just a few accreditation courses.
― cocktail onion (fennel cartwright), Tuesday, 5 February 2013 08:34 (four years ago) Permalink
Just need to randomly bitch about some litigation bullshit that is getting to me -- people I'm working with on a brief keep doing two really annoying things: (1) making what I'd call "gotcha" arguments, like "Defendants don't address x, therefore they acknowledge that our arguments on that point are correct" (so obviously not true! do you really think the court will fall for this?) and (2) neurotically addressing every single nitpicky point the other side raises. Sometimes you can just let a bad micro-argument go and trust the court to see it.
― huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Monday, 6 May 2013 19:35 (four years ago) Permalink
hoo boy, me no big lawyer no more, but i vaguely remember in one of my litigation classes you concede a point by omitting it in your answer when it's addressed in the plaintiff's complaint, which is really just supremely lazy since all you need is a one-sentence form answer to keep it alive ... is that what they're doing??
― Spectrum, Monday, 6 May 2013 19:40 (four years ago) Permalink
but it's a motion to dismiss, not an answer
― huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Monday, 6 May 2013 19:58 (four years ago) Permalink
you definitely do not concede a point by omiting an arugment on it from your motion to dismiss - you can file a motion to dismiss that addresses only one point and still preserve all other arguments
― huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Monday, 6 May 2013 19:59 (four years ago) Permalink
ok, i'm not even sure why they'd be bringing that up in the first place.
― Spectrum, Monday, 6 May 2013 20:02 (four years ago) Permalink
how do you like being a practicing attorney? i've been tossing the idea around of jumping back into it.
― Spectrum, Monday, 6 May 2013 20:03 (four years ago) Permalink
It's alright. I like being p-side, some of my work is interesting, and my firm is relatively humane with hours for a nyc firm. I'm still less happy than I was working in my bottom-of-the-barrel newspaper reporting job but that job wouldn't have supported a family. I get the feeling there are a lot of happier jobs than mine.
― huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Monday, 6 May 2013 20:14 (four years ago) Permalink
I think what I hate most about lawyering is (1) you are stuck in an office for many hours staring at a computer screen, which sucks to an extent no matter what you're doing and (2) you have to dervote enormous attention to boring details, which combines with the stress of all the consequences that follow if you fuck up those boring details.
― huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Monday, 6 May 2013 20:45 (four years ago) Permalink
(1) making what I'd call "gotcha" arguments, like "Defendants don't address x, therefore they acknowledge that our arguments on that point are correct" (so obviously not true! do you really think the court will fall for this?)
How common is an explicit "lol do you really think the court will fall for this?" in responses to such arguments? I've seen a lot of subtle working-the-refs-without-seeming-to on a legal blog I follow, and wondered if any of it blows up into actual "you gotta be fucking kidding me and kidding the judge too."
― What makes a man start threads? (WilliamC), Monday, 6 May 2013 20:57 (four years ago) Permalink
ppl who know what they are doing should strive not to do it. not professional and betrays insecurity imo. just write the argument. a couple days ago i found an opinion somewhere where the judges called out one of the parties for snarky tone.
― veryupsetmom (harbl), Monday, 6 May 2013 22:33 (four years ago) Permalink
er, insecurity betrays u? what i'm i trying to say? i'm so tired.
― veryupsetmom (harbl), Monday, 6 May 2013 22:34 (four years ago) Permalink
one of my major goals in life is to never go to law school. so far so good.
― i have opinions about empire burlesque (Treeship), Monday, 6 May 2013 22:35 (four years ago) Permalink
i think being a lawyer is cool for people who want to do it, but too many people like me -- who don't want to be lawyers -- seem to get sucked into it. i don't want to be one of those people.
― i have opinions about empire burlesque (Treeship), Monday, 6 May 2013 22:36 (four years ago) Permalink
Trying to edit an 80 pp brief down to 50 right now, and I'm fighting people attached to every insignificant little half-point-scoring line. I had a really annoying argument with a junior partner about a moment where he thought he was "using defendants' argument against them" but doing so was actually perversely kind of double-cutting back against us.
― huun huurt 2 (Hurting 2), Monday, 6 May 2013 22:38 (four years ago) Permalink
xp Tell everyone you communicate with regularly that if you say something like, "I really want to help people in a meaningful way, and I think law school is a good way to make that happen" they are to hit you in the head with something until you recant your statements. Same thing if you start talking about "alternative legal careers" (hint: there are like five job openings for alternative legal careers and all five of them were just filled while I was typing this).
― carl agatha, Monday, 6 May 2013 22:39 (four years ago) Permalink
hey, that line got me a nice scholarship at my law school! too bad I believed it at the time. :{
― Spectrum, Monday, 6 May 2013 22:44 (four years ago) Permalink
xxp to hurting. that sounds maddening.
― Spectrum, Monday, 6 May 2013 22:47 (four years ago) Permalink
i can kind of sympathize with the young buck wanting to approach his case from a more creative angle, which is probably what he thought the law was all about before becoming a lawyer
― i have opinions about empire burlesque (Treeship), Monday, 6 May 2013 23:14 (four years ago) Permalink
― iatee, Tuesday, 16 July 2013 17:39 (three years ago) Permalink
if you don't have a subscription this link should work
― Spectrum, Tuesday, 16 July 2013 17:49 (three years ago) Permalink
Here's some spooky news for law schools. The number of law school admission tests administered in October is down nearly 11% from the previous year, according to new data from the Law School Admission Council.
October LSAT takers numbered 33,673 versus the 37,780 who sat for the test the year before. It's the fewest number of October test takers since 1998 and the second-lowest figure going back to at least year the 1980s. The half-day LSAT is given four times a year in annual cycles starting in June.
The figures are the latest sign that the law-school bubble hasn't stopped deflating. Law Blog reported in August that law-school applicants are down 12.3% and applications are down 17.9% compared to a year ago.
The number of test takers peaked four years ago and has been on the decline ever since. The total for June and October is down 38% from four years ago. And the October total alone is 45% below the 2009 peak.
― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Thursday, 31 October 2013 23:20 (three years ago) Permalink
Suck it, law schools.
― carl agatha, Thursday, 31 October 2013 23:59 (three years ago) Permalink
thanks, obama
― twist boat veterans for stability (k3vin k.), Friday, 1 November 2013 00:01 (three years ago) Permalink
suck on my L-SAC
― #fomo that's the motto (Hurting 2), Friday, 1 November 2013 00:36 (three years ago) Permalink
"I didn't always agree with Scalia, but he was brilliant," and other complete bullshit you learn to spout in law school, such as "I really want to do transactional work, although I think lit could be interesting too,"
― on entre O.K. on sort K.O. (man alive), Thursday, 18 February 2016 03:27 (one year ago) Permalink
Things I Have Never Said for $1000
― Comprehensive Nuclear Suggest-Ban Treaty (benbbag), Thursday, 18 February 2016 04:23 (one year ago) Permalink
but otm


text:
ULM fans survived a roller coaster of emotions to finally being able to breath a sigh of relief as the ULM Warhawks survived in Miami, FL over FIU 23-17 in overtime Saturday night.
On a night where the ULM offense struggled to get anything going, quarterback Kolton Browning threw a 15 yard touchdown pass to Brent Leonard to send the Warhawks (8-4 6-2) to victory.
The Warhawks go 3-1 in overtime games this season winning at then #8 Arkansas, losing to Auburn, then winning on the road at Western Kentucky and tonight over FIU.
ULM started the game hot driving the field and scoring on a 2 yard Browning touchdown run but wouldn't see the endzone again until less than a minute remaining in the third quarter.
Senior linebacker and defensive player of the game R.J Young scooped a fumble up and rumbled 40 yards to break a 10-10 tie. Young also added 10 tackles for the ULM defense. As a team the Warhawks registered 7 QB sacks led by Emmanuel Jefferies two sacks.
ULM managed just 235 yards of total offense, their lowest output of the season by far. 226 of that came through the air and a season low 9 rushing yards on 27 carries (Browning 17).
The Warhawks picked up a crucial third and one conversion with a little over a minute remaining to all but seal the victory. In victory formation and a early gatorade bath for Coach Berry and Coach Reffett, the ball somehow was knocked loose and a scramble for it led to a recovery for FIU.
"From what I understand their nose tackle knocked the ball loose before the ball was ever snapped. As soon as Josh (Allen) wiggled it he knocked it loose, I have never seen it in all my years of coaching" - Troy Reffett.
Browning would later explain that it was his fault on the fumbled snap as he changed his cadence and the ball was snapped early.
Two plays later FIU Freshman quarterback E.J Hilliard connected with speedster Willis Wright for an unbelievable 58 yard hail mary to tie the game at 17.
Defensive coordinator Troy Reffett talked about the hail mary. "That is a coverage that is specifically used in two minute situations, and we had a guy just totally blow the coverage and turn the WR loose". "We should have had a guy at least 15 yards behind him as the ball was snapped".
ULM wide receiver Brent Leonard hauled in 13 of quarterback Kolton Browning's 31 completions for 98 yards and is now one catch short of breaking the all time ULM record held by former wide out Mack Vincent.
Browning finished with 218 passing yards on 38 attempts with one touchdown pass and one rushing.
The ULM defense blocked FIU's attempt at a field goal in overtime with a new package that was just installed this week according to Reffett.
"We finally got some guys that have some good length to then as well as good vertical jumps. I take out 2 safeties and put Jeron Hamm and Tony Cook in and just let them try to get a jump block".
Unless the two teams meet down the line in an out of conference game or bowl game, it was the last meeting between the two schools as FIU (3-9 2-6) is leaving the Sun Belt conference for C-USA next year.
The Warhawks hold a 6-3 series advantage since the two teams started playing each other in 2004.
With win #8 the Warhawks will now sit back and see which bowl invitation they will receive as they cap off their best season ever at the FBS level.
ULM will finished tied for 2nd in the conference at 6-2 with either Arkansas State or Middle Tennessee as they square off next weekend for the outright conference title.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
IN February we warned of unsolicited faxes that tricked victims into replying to a £1.50-a-minute number.
PPD Comms (UK) of Maidenhead, Berks was behind the scam, which threatened that you'd get similar rubbish on your fax machine unless you replied to its line to opt-out.
The good news is that the watchdog for premium-rate phonelines, ICSTIS, has fined PPD Comms £40,000 and banned it from running fax services for a year.


text:
All Android applications categories
Teen Top Wallpapers
Many new colors and arrangements for your pleasure. Wallpapers optimized for your Android phone. Please share this app with your friends and loved ones!
★Save images as wallpaper.
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★Contains high resolution wallpapers
★Auto fit most of devices screen size.
ALL pics are FREE and updates DAILY!
Teen Top (Hangul: 틴탑) is a South Korean boy group that consists of six members: C.A.P, Chunji, L.Joe, Niel, Ricky and Changjo. The band debuted under T.O.P Media, founded by Andy Lee of Shinhwa, in 2010. They released their first single album Come into the World on July 9, 2010 and made their official debut the following day on MBC's Music Core.
C.A.P 캡 Bang Min-soo 방민수
Chunji 천지 Lee Chan-hee 이찬희
L.Joe 엘조 Lee Byung-hun 이병헌
Niel 니엘 Ahn Daniel 안다니엘
Ricky 리키 Yoo Chang-hyun 유창현
Changjo 창조 Choi Jong-hyun 최종현
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Tags: 青少年桌布 , papel de parede yoo chang hyun , 純濟
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a place for zinesters - writers and readers
Evil Flower #5 was originally supposed to be a 24 hour zine but after a medication fiasco the goal was extended to 36 hours.
I wrote the content on a typewriter in the basement of the library and made the layout on the floor in the living room.
24 pages 1/4 size. Contains several pieces about my experience working in a theater this summer, a letter to a gentleman and the story of running into my…
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I just climbed on Cherry's boat and had a chat with him.
"Anywhere the winds blows, that's where you're catching 'em. Plus, they're up in 3 feet of water," he said.
He then had his Marshal open up his livewell to reveal a 6-pounder.
"I wonder if I should pull it out separately at the weigh-in," he said as he grinned. "Oh, yes," the Marshal and I replied. He then hunched over in obvious pain and spread his fingers and palm out on the deck.
"I got really cold this morning, and with my hands in the water culling, my fingers and hands are locking up on me. I had it kinda rough this morning, but it was just first-day jitters. I'm glad that my son's going to be at the weigh-in today, it'll be the first time he's ever seen me weigh-in."
This is quite the venue to see you old man weigh some fish for the first time, and with the way Cherry's been fishing, it likely won't be his last visit to the Classic stage.
Also, bait color was key. He's throwing a Megabass110+1 and a a regular 110 in a sexyish sort of color. "If it wasn't that color, you weren't getting bit."
He just caught a 3-pounder that was barely hooked, which culled his 2 1/2 and as he released the smaller fish he said "I'm done."
"Really?" we said. "Yes. I'm going back to fish around the dock."
He's doing an interview with Robbie Floyd at the moment as he tends to his frozen hands. With 30 minutes of f ishing time left, he reckons he's got 20 or so pounds. He cites his arm hand and back pain, which came one after a slip off the bus the night before, as the reason for calling it quits.


text:
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The Occupy Together movement politically divides the population between the 1% and the 99%. Yet, while we arguably understand the 99% as signifying those Americans of the working class, middle class, and even small business owners, it is in fact the 1% that defines—no, creates—the identity of the 99%.
Whatever the many differences that exist amongst the 99%, the one thing that we share in common is our opposition to the economic and political power of the 1%.
Investigating the 1% is difficult because, in its essence, it is like a magnet. Consider two magnets on a flat surface. If you reverse one magnet, it repels the other's magnetic field by distorting its shape. Isn't this exactly how the 1% operates in our lives? It presents itself as a constraint on possibilities, the very essential distortion which to a great degree patterns our lives, choices, incomes, and employment possibilities. The 1% manifests itself everywhere in our lives.
I will investigate the 1% in terms of what it is concretely, a body of wealthy corporations and business interests, but also what the 1% is politically—how the 1% produces itself within the government and the current Obama administration.
The Wealth of the 1%
In terms of income, the 1%'s adjusted gross income is $1.3 trillion dollars. On average, the top 1% of the population have incomes of $1,530,773 per year. On its own, an individual earning over a million dollars per year is inconsequential. Consider, however, that the 1% controls 17% of total income within the United States. Additionally, income is distinct from the the concept of net wealth, which includes not only income but revenue from financial investment and property ownership. In terms of wealth, the average wealth of the individual one-percenter was $14 million in 2009. In 2007, the 1% collectively owned 34.6% of all wealth within the United States while the bottom 40.0% owned only 0.2% of all wealth. The top 20% collectively owned 85.0% of all U.S. wealth.
Here, the 1% becomes transparent. The 1% are not simply individual proprietors of wealth, but financial interests and corporations which monopolize the largest concentration of capital. How is it possible that 1% of the population can own 34.6% of wealth while the bottom 40% own only 0.2% of all wealth? Furthermore, how is it possible that the wealthiest 20% of the population can own 85.0% of all resources, leaving the vast majority of Americans to fight over crumbs? The existence of the 1% is predicated on this obscene disparity in wealth. It is the distorting effect that the 1% has on the general economy that permits its existence.
A Wall Street billionaire, a unionized public employee, and a Tea Party member are sitting at a table eyeing a huge plate piled high with a thousand delicious cookies. The financier reaches across and takes 999 cookies, looks at the tea partier and says, "Watch out for that union guy. He wants your cookie."
General Electric, for example, has an annual revenue of $151.63 billion dollars, while the country of New Zealand has a revenue of $140.43 billion. And, G.E. isn't the only American corporation to earn more than an entire nation! Walmart has an annual revenue of $421.89 billion while the country of Norway has annual revenue of $414.46 billion. More interesting, though, is that even though Walmart has a larger revenue than the entire country of Norway, the top 1% of Norwegian income earners control only 2% of the nation's wealth.
As of 2006, the global 1% owns 40% of total wealth, with the majority of one-percenters being citizens of the United States of America. The '1%' isn't only an American phenomenon, but a collection of the wealthiest corporations and nations.
How is it possible that, in the United States, income disparity is so absurdly high? Here, we have to define the 1% in terms of how the 1% dictate the movement of our everyday lives. How do the 1% affect our ability to engage in quality education, acquire housing, and have a decent standard of living?
How Does the 1% Determine Our Lives?
I will give two examples of how the 1% determines the extent to which we control our lives. The United States government provides essential services in housing, affordable heating, and education through the appropriation of taxes. Yet Obama has willingly impoverished the government at the behest of the 1% by continuing Bush-era tax policies. According to the Huffington Post, "Tax cuts for the wealthiest five percent of Americans cost the U.S. Treasury $11.6 million every hour, according to the National Priorities Project. America's top earners will get an average tax cut of $66,384 in 2011, while the bottom 20 percent will get an average cut of $107."
Over two years, Bush-Obama tax cuts for the wealthiest 1% will deplete the government of $858 billion dollars. We must connect this with wages, because it will illuminate how tax cuts constitute actual theft from the 99%. An employer will often only pay an employee what it costs to re-produce that employee, or basically, the minimum amount necessary for that employee to feed and clothe themselves. In the state of Massachusetts, minimum wage is $8.00 per hour, which is actually considered less than what is necessary to re-produce a healthy worker on any given day.
However, a minimum wage of $8.00 is predicated upon the fact that a welfare system exists, that an educational system exists, that subsidies exist for oil heating, and so on. This minimum wage is only barely sustainable because of the taxes that the government reaps from the 1%. Now, due to these tax cuts, we're witnessing an erosion of public services without a corresponding increase in wage levels.
This constitutes direct theft; $8.00 per hour is no longer $8.00 per hour in reality, but far less, given that it is a necessity to procure essential services once rendered inexpensive or free. Consider that, in 2011, Obama cut the budget of LiHEAP (Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program) by 25%, amounting to a decrease in over one billion dollars! NEADA director Mark Wolfe said the "smaller appropriation would mean assistance for roughly 1 million fewer households."
Compare this cutback with the fact that "nearly 300 of the nation's most profitable companies paid an average tax rate of 18.5 percent from 2008 to 2010, less than half of the 35 percent corporate tax rate," with companies like G.E. paying less than nothing in income taxes in the past three years, meaning that tax cuts have actually augmented the revenue of the 1%, and yet produced diminishing returns in terms of employment and stagnant wage levels.
The government's revenue crisis is a self-generated crisis. The U.S. government does not have the will, even the ability, to challenge the 1%. The question becomes, how does the 1% manifest itself politically? How does the 1% mobilize itself within government to establish policies that result in the direct impoverishment of many?
The 1% in Power
Politically, the 1% has a lot of names: Mitt Romney, Barack Obama, Ron Paul, and so on. There is a deep connection between the 1% and the political class, often even a significant overlap. However, this is not to say that Barack Obama has politics equivalent to Newt Gingrich. Ideas are still thoroughly important to the 1%. Newt Gingrich's conservative, anti-woman "family first" orientation has caused him to critically support the idea of amnesty for well-established migrant worker families. Barack Obama, did, in fact, pass a health care bill, that, while certainly profitable for insurance companies, did rattle radical free-market proponents.
While there are divergences and splits within government leadership, in the last instance, the political class is overwhelmingly determined by the 1%. The composition of President Obama's administration exemplifies this interpenetration. The White House Chiefs of Staff, in order of succession, were Rahm Emanuel, Bill Dailey and now Jack Lew. Rahm Emanuel was on the board of directors of Freddy Mac. Bill Dailey was a top executive at J.P. Morgan Chase. Jack Lew, the latest White House Chief of Staff, was Chief Operating Officer of Citigroup's Alternative Investment Unit. There is a deep connection between captains of industry, finance and the government, too many connections to visit here. The included Venn diagram from Revolutionary Frontlines reveals this overlap between government and big business.
The 1% as Distortion
The 1% affects every aspect of our lives and in that sense, creates and re-creates the 99%. The 99% is certainly not a homogeneous body; it contains workers, students, small business owners and even large businesses who support the movement, like Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream, but there is an even more powerful distortion in the 99% that renders it as divided as the 1% and the political class themselves. The whole edifice of the 99% is distorted by white supremacy, which is not only an integral part of how the 1% rules, but an integral part of our very reality. White supremacy isn't simply a method used to "divide" the 99%; it is the foundation for the construction of the very dichotomy between the 1% and the 99%:
"…Racism is not only a bad idea, but a bad reality. And it has caused real differences and real division within the whole working class. The material conditions of white life in the U.S. white workers lives includes the ideology of racism. It is a material force that has gripped many whites and blacks as well… This is not a random accidental occurrence, and as such it has a continuity and force that is not easily shaken…" (The Proletarian Unity League, 1975)
How does white supremacy manifest itself within the the 99%? African Americans have nearly double the unemployment rate as white Americans. People of Color are routinely targeted by police. According to the New York Civil Liberties Union, the NYPD's "Stop and Frisk" program is a perfect example: "89 percent of those stopped in 2006 were people of color. 55 percent of the stops were of black people – more than double their percentage of the population – and 30 percent were of Latinos," when only 10% of these "stop and frisks" resulted in arrests.
A thorough treatment of white supremacy and the 99% requires a much deeper examination, but it is important to note that the 1% isn't simply a corporation or a government body. The 1% forms a diagonal which cuts across the 99%. To constitute a really revolutionary '99%' requires not only the political will of Occupy, but the willingness to confront white supremacy head on.
The 1% as Apparition
The 1% has been defined as those corporations and financial interests who have the power to dictate our lives through their immense accumulation of wealth and government connections. The 1% produces the 99% through its immense weight, distorting the social field such that even though the 1% is numerically small, it determines the overall trajectory of the economy and politics.
Yet it would be incorrect to designate the '1%' as a person. If we come back to the magnet example, the '1%' is more like an anonymous power, which, at the very core of our existence, disturbs and deforms our possibilities.
The 1% is the most concentrated expression of Capital, and Capital is not a human being. Marx describes the connection between the human bodies that compose the 1% and the 99% as that inhuman process that exists at the very core of our social existence:
[The capitalist] is capital personified, his motivating force is not the acquisition of use-values, but the acquisition and augmentation of exchange-values. He is fanatically intent on the valorization of value; … Only as a personification of capital is the capitalist respectable. As such, he shares with the miser an absolute drive towards self-enrichment. But what appears in the miser as the mania of an individual is in the capitalist the effect of a social mechanism in which he is merely a cog. (Marx & Mandel, 1992)
What Marx is saying here is that the 1% is not growing their wealth, power, and influence because they are innately greedy, but because they are the personification of Capital itself– the unceasing drive for profit.
Consider tycoons like the late Steve Jobs, who awarded himself a salary of one dollar per year. The 1% aren't necessarily after their own personal wealth, but the augmentation of their wealth as Capital. If the 1% augments their income for personal enjoyment with profit from revenue, they are objectively retarding the process of wealth accumulation. The best capitalists actually provide themselves with comparatively meagre salaries and place more emphasis in growing their business venture as Capital. It is more accurate to say that the 1% comprises not only human bodies, but the more dominant systemic drive towards accumulation of wealth represented as Capital.
Occupy as Intervention
The 1% doesn't pick up your garbage, build refrigerators or provide essential services. So why are they so vested with such power? The 1% present their ownership of 40% of American wealth as natural. And, in fact, it is a natural, organic process within Capitalism. For Capitalism to exist and thrive, there must exist as well an unceasing drive towards profit and accumulation.
But, in another sense, it is totally absurd and unnatural. Why do those who produce nothing have such a profound, even abusive, effect on the 99%? The Occupy Movement has not so much revealed the 1% but named it. The naming of the 1% by the Occupy Movement has unleashed the potential to understand the 1% not as the collection of criminals and thieves that they are, but the underlying trauma of our social existence.
Our struggle as the 99% is not simply to unmask the anonymous forces which deny us justice, but overturn the very mechanism by which the 1% rules.Download this piece as a PDF


text:
What museums have you visited?
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Lauren Kretsch uses The Field Museum
When I went to Chicago we decided to visit this museum. There was a pirate exhibit and it was one of my favorite museums! Don't miss it if you end up in Chicago!
Andrew Frenz uses The Museum of Russian Art
A hidden gem in South Minneapolis, this Russian Art Museum is just a few blocks from my house right on Diamond Lake Road and 35W. The art is fantastic, and they bring in new collections of art quite frequently, it seems. I really enjoyed it.
Griffin Muckley uses Walker Art Institute
The exhibits here are mind-blowing and exquisite. The multiple galleries often show collections of conceptual art but also occasionally showcase artists such as Frida Khalo. I dig it.
Lyndsey Frenz uses Science Museum of Minnesota
I am a member of the Science Museum, and really enjoy going there. There is always interesting exhibits to see and the Omnitheater shows are always great. One great thing about being a member is that you can get into museums across the country for free as well. I recently was in Chicago and used the membership card to go to the Field Museum, the Museum of Science and Industry, and the Adler Planetarium.
Andrew Frenz uses Science Museum of Minnesota
I have been going to the Science Museum for nearly my whole life. It is a great museum and lots of fun. There are many hands-on activities as well as classics like the dinosaur bones. The omni-theater shows are amazing. A must if you go. We were members this past year so we went many times to do some exhibits and watch a show. You get both for free every time you visit if you are members, and discounts to the traveling shows (like Star Wars or Body World). With a membership you feel less obligated to spend all day there and can go just for a few hours at a time. And when we went to Chicago, we got into the Field Museum, the Planetarium, and the Museum of Science and Technology for free! That alone paid for the membership. I loved it as a kid, and I still love it as an adult!
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"Petite Pawz Rescue is a small grassroots non-profit organization that, in close conjunction with Paw Printz Rescue and The Animal Rescue Team, networks with high-kill shelters and other rescue groups throughout the world to save as many lives as possible, without recognition of boundaries or breed. email@example.com"
Hope Perseveres
Mom found this rescue when she started her new dog search and fell in love with this girl Iris. However Iris went missing and for 44 days, volunteers, her old foster mom and others helped search at all hours through all weather to look for her. Eventually they did find her and the story is amazing. Something about her really tugs at mom's heart. :) We're so glad this rescue is around to help dogs from all over find new homes, some people wonder why rescue dogs from Taiwan if there's so many here that need homes, well dogs in Taiwan need homes too. :)


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Arts, Crafts, Music & Cajun Festival
Grove, OK 74344
Visitors to the annual Arts, Crafts, Music & Cajun Festival don't have to travel deep into the heart of Cajun...Learn More
Visitors to the annual Arts, Crafts, Music & Cajun Festival don't have to travel deep into the heart of Cajun...Learn More
Relax and enjoy the 4th of July Fireworks Spectacular on a boat or from the shores of beautiful Lake Eufaula. ...Learn More
Watch brilliant fireworks over Grand Lake at the Independence Day Celebration at Wolf Creek. This evening celebration of...Learn More
Join the Fourth of July fun at the Har-Ber Village Museum Independence Day Celebration in Grove. Conveniently located...Learn More
Come experience "Welfarewell," an award-winning play by Cat Delany, live onstage at the Playmakers Theatre in...Learn More
Looking for some fun and excitement on the lake? This July, head to Grand Lake for this energetic event featuring the RC...Learn More
The Christmas in July Quilt Show, hosted by the Grand Lake O' The Cherokees Quilt Guild, is a judged quilt show...Learn More
Whole Hawg Days & Poker Run in Eufaula is a celebration of summer that includes a parade, car show, barbecue...Learn More
Support the arts at Har-Ber Village Museum's Art on the Lake event. Explore a wide variety of two- and...Learn More
Attend the Jana Jae Fiddle Camp and Music Festival and witness as fiddlers of all levels and ages come together in a...Learn More


text:
This star rating is the opinion of the property owner only. A Self-Rated hotel has not been assessed by the AA or Visit Britain, whose official star ratings we use across LateRooms.com.
Hillthwaite3 Self rated
Price FromView Rooms
"I have stayed at Hillthwaite quite a few times over the years and the standard is still as high as ever. A very relaxing atmosphere...."
"Lovely hotel with lovely views. Staff at Hotel all friendly and pleasant. We used the Leisure facilities also which were excellent. Had the..."
About the hotel
The family-owned Hillthwaite hotel, set in three acres of landscaped gardens between Windermere and Bowness, is one of the area's highest hotels overlooking England's largest lake and with magnificent panoramic views over to Langdale Pikes, Crinkle Crags and Coniston Old Man.
Within easy reach of the M6 motorway, this 3-star, 33-room hotel offers a warm Lakeland welcome with a reputation for superb food and friendly service. The 34 individually designed rooms are maintained to a high standard, all with en-suite facilities, some with splendid four-poster beds and jacuzzi baths and most have spectacular lake or fell views.
The ground floor suite of public facilities includes a comfortable lounge with a well-stocked bar, a feature conservatory and impressive restaurant with stunning bay window views of the unique South Lakes skyline. High-quality local produce are used for all homemade dishes and are sure to delight your taste buds, and an extensive list of drinks is also available to accompany the delectable meal offerings.
In summer months the terrace overlooking Lake Windermere is a favourite for guests to relax and take in Cumbria's ever changing colours. Or they can enjoy the exclusive use of the year-round leisure facilities including a heated swimming pool, steam room and sauna.
The property is just a 15-minute walk from The World of Beatrix Potter and 20 km from Dove Cottage, the original home of William Wordsworth. Other attractions include the Treetop Trek Ltd, Hawkshead and Claife, and Blackwell Arts & Crafts House.
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- Hotel Non-Smoking Throughout, Cots available, Tea/Coffee making facilities in each room, Hairdryer in each room, Limited Hours Room Service, Limited room service for hot food, Pets Allowed, Porter, Ground floor bedrooms
- Parking
- Car parking available onsite
- Business
- Wi-Fi Available, In-room Broadband, Wi-Fi Available In Public Areas
- Dining
- Restaurant, Lounge Menu, Bar
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- Indoor Pool, Sauna, Steam Rooms, [Channels] News
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- Between 15:00 and 23:00
- By 11:00 hours
- Up to 12 years old
- The price shown is based on the occupancy and dates you have searched for. Prices and availability are subject to change based on the arrival date, number of nights and occupancy searched for. All prices are inclusive of all local taxes.
- Pets are allowed
Customer Reviews
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0% would recommend it to a friend
Customer service
Food quality
Room quality
Booked Hotel as a treat for my girlfriend so price wasn't an issue .
Very dissapointed with the room considering the price very hot and stuffy no air con . Mini bar empty bar a couple of small wine bottles. Door of room battered and tired landing finished in dreadful 1970s decor . Staff all European with very poor language skills. We will not be going back . Advised of my issues at check out but no real response.
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Lakes visit
I have stayed at Hillthwaite quite a few times over the years and the standard is still as high as ever.
A very relaxing atmosphere....
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text:
Have you ever watched In Good Company, with Topher Grace and Dennis Quaid? Of course you have! It's a classic! But have you ever really SEEN it? Not unless you've used your Vivitek to project it against your wall and then watched it with the sound off! That's where the real magic is!
Vivitek official site
Gatzby wrote:The only projection I've ever tried is astral. How do I know how many lumens are right for me?
For those that are 3D capable, what glasses are required?
jdelvoie wrote:For those that are 3D capable, what glasses are required?
Think Dlp link shutter glasses.
They get the sync signal bounced off the screen from the projector!
$32 from Amazon.


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The Macally mCup Adjustable Automobile Cup Holder Mount for Mobile Devices keeps your iPhone, iPod or other mobile device safely within reach when you're on the road. This holder fits nicely in your car's cup holder, meaning that you don't have to permanently stick it to your dashboard or windsheild. The flexible neck and adjustable swivel device holder, let you chose the best angle of view. Meanwhile, the swivel holder does exactly what its name implies, allowing you to swivel your device vertically or horizontally, while protecting your device from scratches with its soft holder grips.


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In this presentation, Dr. Berger, professor and head of the department of Pharmacy Care Systems at Auburn University, discusses motivational interviewing techniques. The Obesity Task Force promotes these techniques as the method to work with persons who need to lose weight or make a lifestyle behavior change to improve health outcomes.
Dr. Bruce A. Berger was awarded an Alumni Professorship in 1996 for outstanding teaching, research, and service at Auburn University. He conducts workshops on health behavior change, strategies for improving treatment adherence leadership, interpersonal effectiveness, managing angry or difficult people, managing change, and managing resistance to change.
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Anheuser-Busch Stops Making Beer, Starts Canning Water for Texas Flood Victims
Many people are looking to help flood victims. Anheuser-Busch has found an interesting way to do their part.
Many people are looking to help flood victims. Anheuser-Busch has found an interesting way to do their part.
The Red Cross is operating a Service Center in Cache for those in that area affected by flooding. Families will be able to meet one-on-one with trained caseworkers to receive emergency assistance.
Severe weather is expected in the Central and Western Oklahoma Region this week and this weekend. Oklahoma is prone to severe thunderstorms and the American Red Cross urges residents to take steps now to stay safer when severe weather threatens.
UPDATE 2: A new fire has been reported at Liberty Lake located at the northeast side of Edmond, OK. No structure damage or injuries have been reported
Original story follows:
The American Red Cross kick-offed their 2014 Heroes Campaign and Red Cross Month event on Feb. 28. During the month of March 'Heroes' that have pledged to raise $1,000 for their local Red Cross chapter will be doing everything they can to make their goal as well as promote the mission of the organization, preparedness.
Starting Feb. 28, The American Red Cross will launch their 2014 Heroes Campaign as well as Red Cross Month which begins on March 1.
The next couple days will be extremely cold so its important to stay warm and to limit any work you have to do outdoors. The American Red Cross has released these 9 safety tips to help people stay warm.
When people donate money to help in the relief efforts we are left with the feeling that we have helped out in some small way. However, the question that remains is: "Where Do Those Millions Go?"
The biggest disaster threat to American families isn't floods, hurricanes or tornadoes; it's fire. The American Red Cross responds to a disaster every eight minutes and nearly all of these are home fires.
Summer-like temperatures are expected this week in Southwest Oklahoma, and the American Red Cross is urging residents to take precautions while outside.
A quick look at some American Red Cross fast facts shows that the need for disaster relief funds is still there.
Tornadoes can strike at anytime and with the recent storms in Moore and Northern Texas, it is now more important than ever to know the warning signs and have a plan in case of these deadly storms were to form in the local communities. Here are the American Red Cross' tips to be aware and prepared for a tornado.


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Watch Live | Obama Statement on Fiscal Cliff
President Obama is expected to make a statement on the fiscal cliff at 1:30 p.m. Officials familiar with the negotiations say the contours of a deal have emerged.
With a midnight deadline rapidly approaching, Democrats and Republicans in the Senate have agreed to raise tax rates on family income over $450,000 a year and $400,000 for individuals, to increase the estate tax rate and to extend unemployment benefits for one year, officials said. They stressed that negotiations are continuing and the emerging deal was not yet final.
"It appears that an agreement to prevent this New Year's tax hike is within sight," President Barack Obama said in an early-afternoon status report on negotiations. "But it's not done."
Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell - shepherding final talks with Vice President Joe Biden - agreed with Obama that an overall deal was near. In remarks on the Senate floor, he suggested Congress move quickly to pass tax legislation and "continue to work on finding smarter ways to cut spending" next year.


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Providing a subject heading for every idea, object, process or relationship that catalogers might encounter is an impossible task. EBSCO offers a practical solution. Since 1923, this resource has served the unique cataloging needs of small and medium-sized libraries by providing a flexible, extendable vocabulary in natural language.
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Sears List of Subject Headings is available online via EBSCOhost, in print via Grey House Publishing and as a MARC authority record data delivery. A Spanish edition — Sears: Lista de Encabezamientos de Materia — is also available online and in print.
View the print edition available from Grey House Publishing.
Advanced Search, with its elegantly laid-out tool set for crafting very precise search strategies, gives the user great control over the whole search process.– Library Journal


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12" seems about right to me. How skinny are the folks you're planning to shoot?
This is a discussion on 9mm ammo penetration within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hey anybody know any 9mm ammo that doesn't have a a lot of penetration I have Winchester pdx1 and it went through 12" of ballistic ...
Hey anybody know any 9mm ammo that doesn't have a a lot of penetration I have Winchester pdx1 and it went through 12" of ballistic gel and I'd like to have some that didn't go so far so I won't have worry about collateral damage any thoughts????
12" seems about right to me. How skinny are the folks you're planning to shoot?
There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.
Welcome to the forum.
IMO, people worry too much about over penetration compared to the much more likely collateral damage from misses.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote." ~ Benjamin Franklin
As long as you aren't using FMJ ball ammo for defense, I wouldn't worry too much about overpenetration with 9mm ammo. In fact, one of the criticisms of 9mm as opposed to larger calibers has been too little penetration for some situations.
You will probably get less penetration out of a lighter grain bullet, if that's a concern of yours. Don't worry about shoot-throughs with hollow point 9mm ammo. Police all over the world have shot bad guys with 9mm JHP ammo without overpenetration concerns.
Innocent bystanders are far more endangered by bullets that miss and go flying through the neighborhood than ones that go into criminals.
Your bullet penetrating 12" is not a bad thing. That slug has to get through bone and possible layers of clothing to get to the attacker's vitals.
Last edited by Showman; December 5th, 2012 at 11:49 PM. Reason: wrong word in post
I would not worry about over penetration as it's overrated and often touted by ammo mfgs who like to promote lighter loads. I can't remember which study it was but they looked at the rate of people who were hit by rounds passing through a suspect and it was very low. Now that's with good reliable hollow point rounds that expand well. In a defensive shooting penetration is your friend but to an extent. You really need something with approx 12 inches of penetration. Now is the human organs 12 inches in the body? No. However, you have to account for a situation where you may have to shoot through a barrier. You may hit bones. You may not have a suspect who is facing you. He (or she) may be at an angle or their side may be facing you. You may get a hit in the arm and then it has to hit multiple bones. I try to stay away from ammo MFGS who claim their round is designed not to over penetrate. If you look at the 1986 Miami FBI Shootout one of the suspects was hit but I believe the 115 Grain 9MM Winchester Silver Tip missed his heart by about an inch. That of course is the incident that changed the way the FBI evaluated it's duty issued ammo and why we have the FBI field testing protocol.
I prefer the Speer Gold Dot 124+P rounds. Another great round is Federal HST and Winchester Ranger T. Stick with a brand used by Law Enforcement and avoid the exotic offerings.
I believe you are going to have more of a problem on your hand if you don't stop the threat so if that PDX 1 round feeds reliably in your gun I would stick with it. Your self defense loads should have at a minimum 12 inches of penetration even with 4 layers of denim.
Last edited by Brent2006; December 6th, 2012 at 10:55 AM.
Although ballistic gel is designed to mimic human muscle tissue it is hardly a human analog when it comes to determining how a bullet will react in a human body. We have these things called 'bones' which cause all kinds of havoc when struck by supersonic (and even subsonic) projectiles. I read somewhere that there's over an 85% chance that any one bullet will strike bone after entry. Certainly if you're aiming for the bad guys chest and hitting it there's ribs and a sternum to deal with.
The FBI has set the benchmark for acceptable bullet penetration with minimal chance of 'shoot through' at 12" although there are some experts who think 13"-16" is better. I honestly don't know all of the scientific data behind the 12" number but I would think there's been a significant amount of thought and research put into it.
12" is the minimum for a reason - quite a few of the 9mm rounds out there barely make it that far. I wish there was something in a HP with more penetration that wasn't as expensive as the DPX.
...but, if for some reason you aren't convinced that penetration is something good - look at Glaser, Powerball - specialty stuff like that.
Modern quality defense ammo in all the major handgun calibers are going to come in between the FBI specs. The difference is the size hole it makes.
Agreed with the folks that said use a hollow point and your good. That frangible stuff all seems too gimmicky.
Oh, and welcome.
I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
Clint Eastwood
But the whole point of defensive firearms usage is, if needed, to strike immediate and incapacitating damage upon the target sufficient to stop the threat to your very life. You most definitely want that 12-15in of penetration.
Before you decide, I'd recommend reading up on the infamous FBI "Miami shootout," in which terminal ballistics of the ammo used was blamed as a strong contributing factor for failure to effectively stop the deadly threats posed by the criminals.
If you do end up convincing yourself that poorer penetration is in fact what you'd prefer, then do one of the following: opt for a lighter, expanding JHP, subsonic round that has significantly lower ft-lbs force (as measured at the muzzle); select a shorter-barreled gun as your defensive weapon; or, change to .380ACP. Each of these should result in reduced penetration as compared to your current 9mm defensive ammo choice.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
The number of people killed because they didn't have "enough gun" is dwarfed by those who had none at all.
try the 9mm Kurz (short) or as we like to call it here in the U.S......the .380ACP. Lack of penetration should be absolutely no probleme' for that round.
Give to them according to their deeds and according to the wickedness of their endeavors; give to them according to the work of their hands; render to them their deserts. Psalm 28:4
You must have a defective box of 9mm ammo there.
I suggest you send it back to winchester, stating that you are very dissapointed, that it performed so well.
Haven't they read all the internet Rambo BS that says 9mm is nothing more than glorified .380, and that it couldn't stop a broken clock from keeping time.
You have a normal amount of penetration as far as 9mm goes.
Don't worry too much about it passing through your intended target, and doing additional damage.
If you are worried about IF you miss, then you should either not carry,{ because in life, there are no absolutes},
or try a lesser caliber
10thmtn has a great link for you in post #12
I would rather die with good men than hide with cowards
If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans
Don't ever think that the reason I'm peaceful is because I don't know how to be violent
M&Pc .357SIG, 2340Sigpro .357SIG


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Google Shares Charge Through $700 Level
Google (NASDAQ: GOOG [FREE Stock Trend Analysis]) shares are moving sharply over the psychological $700 level Thursday morning, now up more than two percent to around $713.
The price had unsuccessfully tested this important level during three trading sessions since the beginning of December. Shares marked an intraday high above $704 on Wednesday but closed at $697.56.
Above $700, technical levels in Google shares are sparse. In October the stock pushed over $750, but weak third-quarter results failed to support the price and the stock plunged to under $680.
Action in Google Thursday morning seems to be purely a momentum/technical move; however there are a few news items running on the wires.
On the company's blog, Google announced its popular Maps app was released for the iPhone via Apple's (NASDAQ: AAPL) App Store.
In addition, Google last night announced a deal with Belgian news publishers.
(c) 2012 Benzinga.com. Benzinga does not provide investment advice. All rights reserved.
Copyright Benzinga. All rights reserved.


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Get an overview of this hotelFamily-friendly Buenos Aires hotel in Old Palermo with outdoor pool
Collect 200 Nectar points!
Simply enter your Nectar card number when you check out. Your points will be credited 35 days after you return from your trip.*Offers may apply
Popular property highlights
This family-friendly Buenos Aires hotel is located near the airport, within a 15-minute walk of Distrito Arcos, Buenos Aires Zoo, and Carlos Thays Botanic Garden. Estadio Monumental is 2.9 mi (4.7 km) away.
Hotel Features
Along with an outdoor pool, this hotel has a fitness center and a rooftop terrace. WiFi in public areas is free. Other amenities include a meeting room, concierge services, and dry cleaning.
Room Amenities
All 23 rooms boast private spa tubs and jetted tubs, while also providing free WiFi, free wired Internet, and LCD TVs with satellite channels. Other amenities available to guests include kitchenettes, furnished lanais, and pillowtop beds.Information missing or incorrect? Tell us!Opens in a new window
Palermo Tower
Hotel Amenities
Hotel Amenities
Palermo Tower features an outdoor pool and a fitness center. Public areas are equipped with complimentary wired and wireless Internet access. Business-related amenities at this 4-star property consist of limo/town car service and a meeting room. This family-friendly hotel also offers a rooftop terrace, tour/ticket assistance, and multilingual staff.
Palermo Tower has designated areas for smoking.
- Total number of rooms - 23
- Number of floors - 8
- Laundry facilities
- Rooftop terrace
- Luggage storage
- Free WiFi
- Free wired high-speed Internet
- Year Built 2012
- Tours/ticket assistance
- 24-hour front desk
- Multilingual staff
- Elevator/lift
- Fitness facilities
- Outdoor pool
- Babysitting or childcare (surcharge)
- Babysitting or childcare
- Breakfast available (surcharge)
- Concierge services
- Dry cleaning/laundry service
- Casino shuttle (surcharge)
- Cruise terminal shuttle (surcharge)
- Ferry terminal shuttle (surcharge)
- Shopping center shuttle (surcharge)
- Designated smoking areas (fines apply)
- Designated smoking areas
- Limo or Town Car service available
- One meeting room
- Garden
- Porter/bellhop
- Safe-deposit box at front desk
- Area shuttle (surcharge)
- Number of buildings/towers - 1
Family Friendly Amenities
- Family Hotel
- Outdoor pool
- Separate living room
- Free Wi-Fi
- Kitchenette
- Laundry facilities
- Babysitting or childcare (surcharge)
- In-room childcare (surcharge)
- Sofa bed
- Refrigerator
- Microwave
- Cribs/infant beds (complimentary)
Available in all rooms: Free WiFi , Free wired high-speed Internet
Available in some public areas: Free WiFi , Free wired high-speed Internet
Room Amenities
- Separate bathtub and shower
- Bidet
- Jetted bathtub
- Premium TV channels
- Pay movies
- Premium bedding
- Furnished lanai
- Air conditioning
- Free newspaper
- In-room climate control (air conditioning)
- Phone
- Kitchenette
- Free bottled water
- Microwave
- Refrigerator
- Minibar
- Coffee/tea maker
- Daily housekeeping
- Private bathroom
- Bathrobes
- Free toiletries
- Hair dryer
- In-room massage available
- Rainfall showerhead
- In-room childcare (surcharge)
- Desk
- Iron/ironing board (on request)
- Sofa bed
- In-room safe (laptop compatible)
- Cookware, dishware, and utensils
- Blackout drapes/curtains
- Satellite TV service
- Free WiFi
- Free wired high-speed Internet
- Separate living room
- Private spa tub
- Sofa bed size
- Free cribs/infant beds
- Down comforter
- Egyptian-cotton sheets
- Pillowtop mattress
Where to Eat
Buffet breakfasts are available for a surcharge and are served each morning between 8 AM and 11 AM.
Nearby Things to Do
Recreational amenities at the hotel include an outdoor pool and a fitness center.
The recreational activities listed below are available either on site or nearby; fees may apply.
- Golfing nearby
- Sailing nearby
- Hiking/biking trails nearby
- Golf lessons available nearby
- Free bicycles nearby
If you have requests for specific accessibility needs, please note them at check-out when you book your room.
- Accessible bathroom
- In-room accessibility
- Roll-in shower
Hotel Policies
Check-in time ends at midnight
Check-in time starts at 3 PM
Special check-in instructions:
Check-out time is noon
Payment types
Children and extra beds
- Children are welcome.
- Kids stay free! Children 12 years old and younger stay free when using existing bedding.
- Rollaway/extra beds are not available.
- Free cribs (infant beds)!
- Pets not allowed (service animals welcome)
You need to know
Extra-person charges may apply and vary depending on property policy.
Government-issued photo identification and a credit card or cash deposit are required at check-in for incidental charges.
Special requests are subject to availability upon check-in and may incur additional charges. Special requests cannot be guaranteed.
- No onsite parking is available.
Only service animals are allowed
No rollaway/extra beds available
- All citizens of Argentina will be charged the national value-added tax (21%) upon check-out. Foreigners on a tourist visa are exempt from this tax. To qualify for a tax exemption, tourists must present a valid passport and pay for the services rendered with a non-Argentine credit card or via bank transfer from another country. This tax exemption does not apply for stays over 90 days. In the case of cancelled bookings, the cancellation penalties paid by the traveler will also be subject to the national VAT (21%).
Optional extras
- Fee for buffet breakfast: ARS 160 for adults and ARS 160 for children (approximately)
Hotel Name
- Palermo Tower
- Palermo Tower Hotel
We should mention
This property offers transfers from the cruise terminal, ferry terminal, and airport (surcharges may apply). Guests must contact the property with arrival details 24 hours prior to arrival, using the contact information on the booking confirmation. Children 12 years old and younger stay free when occupying the parent or guardian's room, using existing bedding.


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Judge says impeachment motion is 'politically motivated'
Mr Justice Lino Farrugia Sacco yesterday described an impeachment motion against him as "politically motivated" because of his political beliefs.
He was testifying in a constitutional case in which he is demanding that two members of the Commission for the Administration of Justice abstain from hearing the impeachment case. They are retired judge Victor Caruana Colombo, and the president of the Chamber of Advocates, Reuben Balzan.
He protested that Dr Balzan was a partner in a law firm with minister Francis Zammit Dimech and also appeared in photos during the election of Simon Busuttil as the PN's deputy leader.
Judge Caruana Colombo as a member of the same Commission, had taken part in a decision to publicly censure him for having stayed on as president of the Malta Olympic Committee (MOC).
Full story in The Times.
See also http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20121209/local/judge-farrugia-sacco-will-not-resign.448928
See our Comments Policy Comments are submitted under the express understanding and condition that the editor may, and is authorised to, disclose any/all of the above personal information to any person or entity requesting the information for the purposes of legal action on grounds that such person or entity is aggrieved by any comment so submitted. Please allow some time for your comment to be moderated.


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Undergraduate Research Opportunities
One of the most exciting things in life is to discover something new. Undergraduate students at UW–Madison are fortunate to have the opportunity to work with some of the world's leading researchers to push the frontiers of knowledge. The options range from assisting with on-going research to designing and directing your own project. Check out the programs below to find information about undergraduate research opportunities. Some programs offer funding. For more information on grants and awards, see Undergraduate Academic Grants, Fellowships and Awards Opportunities.
Undergraduate/Faculty Research Fellowships
Undergraduates who have at least junior standing at the time of application may apply for funding to do research in collaboration with a UW–Madison faculty member or research/instructional academic staff member.
Environmental Scholarships
Undergraduates who have at least junior standing at the time of application may apply for funding to do research in collaboration with a UW–Madison faculty member or research/instructional academic staff member that focuses on environmental issues.
Ronald E. McNair Scholars
The goal of this program is to increase the number of students in doctoral degree programs who are low-income and first generation undergraduates or students who come from groups underrepresented in graduate education.
Research Programs for Undergraduates
A compendium of opportunities collected by the Graduate School.
Undergraduate Research
Opportunities in Science
A compendium of helpful information produced by WISCIENCE, the Wisconsin Institute for Science Education and Community Engagement.
Undergraduate Research
The Undergraduate Research Scholars Program (URS) is dedicated to helping first- and second-year undergraduates get hands-on experience in research or other creative endeavors by working with UW faculty and research staff.
Wisconsin Idea Undergraduate Fellowships
Undergraduates with at least sophomore standing propose a project that focuses on addressing a need identified by the community. Project areas include (but are not limited to) community development, health related issues, economic development, the arts, education, environmental issues, criminal justice, hunger and poverty alleviation, etc.
School and College Honors Programs
Many of the college-based honors programs have research components, such as the Letters and Science Summer Sophomore Apprenticeship Research Grant.
If you are involved in research, or just interested, don't forget to participate in the annual Undergraduate Symposium.
If you are in the sciences, you might also consider participating in the Annual Meeting and Student Research Conference of Sigma Xi, the Scientific Research Society. This annual meeting for undergraduate researchers offers the opportunity for you to present your work, learn about other students' research, and attend workshops to help you with your professional development as a scientist. For more information, see the conference website.


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This note was uploaded on 08/30/2011 for the course CGN 3350 taught by Professor Lybas during the Spring '11 term at University of Florida.
- Spring '11
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$ 23.81 Not Available
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Product Information for Hamilton Beach K4070Y Electric Kettle
Highlights for Hamilton Beach K4070Y Electric Kettle
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Just attach this lightweight cordless electric skillet to its separate 1,500 watt power base and, in half the time required by a stovetop model, you have a pot of boiling water. Great for tea, chocolate or instant soup. Includes safety locking lid and measuring device that shows how many cups you are making.
General Information
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Technical Information


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DIY: BMW 2005 645Ci / E63 / Crank Case Vent Valves CCV
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This DIY is fantastic! I had a very annoying loud whistling sound on my 05 645, and discovered that when I loosened the oil cap, which allowed air to enter the engine, the sound changed. I stumbled on this thread, did the rebuild on the CCV valves, and the noise is GONE! I am still getting the "increased emissions" service message, however, and was wondering about how to clear that. Do I have to have it reset, or will it clear itself with driving? I took it on a 40 mile freeway drive to see if that would help, but I still have the "service engine soon" lit up on the dash. I need to get the car smogged (CA) and it will fail immediately with the light on.
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