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GoldensealSkip to the navigation
Parts Used & Where Grown
Goldenseal is native to eastern North America and is cultivated in Oregon and Washington. It is seriously threatened by over-harvesting in the wild. The dried root and rhizome are used in herbal medicine.
Our proprietary "Star-Rating" system was developed to help you easily understand the amount of scientific support behind each supplement in relation to a specific health condition. While there is no way to predict whether a vitamin, mineral, or herb will successfully treat or prevent associated health conditions, our unique ratings tell you how well these supplements are understood by the medical community, and whether studies have found them to be effective for other people.
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3 Stars Reliable and relatively consistent scientific data showing a substantial health benefit.
2 Stars Contradictory, insufficient, or preliminary studies suggesting a health benefit or minimal health benefit.
1 Star For an herb, supported by traditional use but minimal or no scientific evidence. For a supplement, little scientific support.
This supplement has been used in connection with the following health conditions:
|Used for
1 Star
Canker Sores
Refer to label instructions
Goldenseal has been used historically as a mouthwash to help heal canker sores.
Because of its soothing effect on mucous membranes (including the lining of the mouth) and its healing properties, chamomile may be tried for canker sores and other mouth irritations.2 A strong tea made from chamomile tincture can be swished in the mouth before swallowing, three to four times per day. Goldenseal has also been used historically as a mouthwash to help heal canker sores.
1 Star
Chronic Candidiasis
Refer to label instructions
Goldenseal contains berberine, an alkaloid with antibiotic and antifungal activity that also been shown to help relieve the diarrhea seen in some people with chronic candidiasis.
Berberine is an alkaloid found in various plants, including goldenseal, barberry , Oregon grape , and goldthread. Berberine exhibits a broad spectrum of antibiotic and antifungal activity in test tube, animal, and human studies.3 , 4 Berberine has shown effective antidiarrheal activity in a number of diarrheal diseases,5 , 6 , 7 and it may offer the same type of relief for the diarrhea seen in patients with chronic candidiasis. Doctors familiar with the use of berberine-containing herbs sometimes recommend taking 2 to 4 grams of the dried root (or bark) or 250 to 500 mg of an herbal extract three times a day. While isolated berberine has been studied, none of these herbs has been studied in humans with chronic candidiasis.
1 Star
Cold Sores
Refer to label instructions
In traditional herbal medicine, tinctures of various herbs including goldenseal have been applied topically to herpes outbreaks in order to promote healing.
In traditional herbal medicine, tinctures of various herbs, including chaparral , St. John's wort , goldenseal, myrrh , and echinacea , have been applied topically to herpes outbreaks in order to promote healing.8
1 Star
Common Cold and Sore Throat
Refer to label instructions
Goldenseal root has antimicrobial and mild immune-stimulating effects. It soothes irritated mucous membranes in the throat, making it potentially useful for sore throats.
Goldenseal root contains two alkaloids, berberine and canadine, with antimicrobial and mild immune-stimulating effects.9 However, due to the small amounts of alkaloids occurring in the root, it is unlikely these effects would occur outside the test tube. Goldenseal soothes irritated mucous membranes in the throat,10 making it potentially useful for those experiencing a sore throat with their cold. Human research on the effectiveness of goldenseal or other berberine-containing herbs, such as Oregon grape , barberry , or goldthread (Coptis chinensis), for people with colds has not been conducted.
Goldenseal root should only be used for short periods of time. Goldenseal root extract, in capsule or tablet form, is typically taken in amounts of 4 to 6 grams three times per day. Using goldenseal powder as a tea or tincture may soothe a sore throat. Because goldenseal is threatened in the wild due to over-harvesting, substitutes such as Oregon grape should be used whenever possible.
Elderberry has shown antiviral activity and thus may be useful for some people with common colds. Elder flowers are a traditional diaphoretic remedy for helping to break fevers and promote sweating during a cold. Horseradish has antibiotic properties, which may account for its usefulness in easing throat and upper respiratory tract infections. The resin of the herb myrrh has been shown to kill various microbes and to stimulate macrophages (a type of white blood cell). Usnea has a traditional reputation as an antiseptic and is sometimes used for people with common colds.
1 Star
Conjunctivitis and Blepharitis
Refer to label instructions
Goldenseal contains berberine, an antibacterial constituent that has been clinically studied for eye infections.
Goldenseal and Oregon grape contain the antibacterial constituent known as berberine. While topical use of berberine in eye drops has been clinically studied for eye infections,11 the use of the whole herbs has not been studied for conjunctivitis or blepharitis.
1 Star
Refer to label instructions
Due to of its supposed antimicrobial activity, goldenseal has a long history of use for infectious diarrhea. Its major alkaloid, berberine, has been shown to improve infectious diarrhea.
Due to of its supposed antimicrobial activity, goldenseal has a long history of use for infectious diarrhea. Its major alkaloid, berberine (also found in barberry and Oregon grape ), has been shown to improve infectious diarrhea in some double-blind trials.12 Negative studies have generally focused on people with cholera, while positive studies investigated viral diarrhea or diarrhea due to strains of E. coli. These studies generally used 400-500 mg berberine one to three times per day. Because of the low amount of berberine in most goldenseal products, it is unclear how effective the whole root or root extracts would be in treating diarrhea.
1 Star
Refer to label instructions
Goldenseal is considered an herbal antibiotic and has been traditionally used for infections of the mucous membranes. One of its active ingredients appears to slow H. pylori growth.
Goldenseal is regarded as an herbal antibiotic and has been traditionally used for infections of the mucous membranes. While no specific research points to goldenseal as a treatment for gastritis, there is some evidence from test tube studies that berberine, an active ingredient in goldenseal, slows growth of H. pylori. 13 Modern herbal practitioners now prefer alternatives to goldenseal, since the plant is threatened with extinction due to overharvesting.
1 Star
Indigestion, Heartburn, and Low Stomach Acidity
Refer to label instructions
Goldenseal is a digestive stimulant widely used in traditional medicine in North America.
Bitter herbs are thought to stimulate digestive function by increasing saliva production and promoting both stomach acid and digestive enzyme production.14 As a result, they are particularly used when there is low stomach acid but not in heartburn (where too much stomach acid could initially exacerbate the situation). These herbs literally taste bitter. Some examples of bitter herbs include greater celandine , wormwood , gentian, dandelion , blessed thistle , yarrow , devil's claw , bitter orange, bitter melon , juniper , andrographis , prickly ash , and centaury .15. Bitters are generally taken either by mixing 1-3 ml tincture into water and sipping slowly 10-30 minutes before eating, or by making tea, which is also sipped slowly before eating.
Some bitters widely used in traditional medicine in North America include yarrow , yellow dock , goldenseal, Oregon grape , and vervain . Oregon grape's European cousin barberry has also traditionally been used as a bitter. Animal studies indicate that yarrow, barberry, and Oregon grape, in addition to stimulating digestion like other bitters, may relieve spasms in the intestinal tract.16
1 Star
Refer to label instructions
Goldenseal is both immune supportive and antimicrobial.
Herbs that support a person's immune system in the fight against microbes and directly attack microbes include the following: barberry , echinacea , elderberry , goldenseal, licorice , Oregon grape , osha, and wild indigo .17
1 Star
Refer to label instructions
Goldenseal used in combination with wild indigo has been reported to have immune-enhancing effects.
Wild indigo contains polysaccharides and proteins that have been reported in test tube studies to stimulate the immune system. The immune-enhancing effect of wild indigo is consistent with its use in traditional herbal medicine to fight the flu.18 However, wild indigo is generally used in combination with other herbs such as echinacea , goldenseal, or thuja.
1 Star
Refer to label instructions
Berberine is derived from several plants, including goldenseal. Studies have shown that berberine kills amoebae and can be used successfully to treat giardia infections.
Berberine is derived from several plants, including barberry , Oregon grape , goldenseal, and goldthread (Coptis chinensis). Preliminary trials have shown that berberine can be used successfully to treat giardia infections .19 , 20 In addition, test tube studies show that berberine kills amoebae, although it is not known whether this effect occurs in humans.21 The amount required is approximately 200 mg three times per day for an adult-a level high enough to potentially cause side effects. Therefore, berberine should not be used without consulting a healthcare provider.
1 Star
Type 2 Diabetes
1 gram per day of berberine for two months
Preliminary research with berberine (an active compound in goldenseal) for two months lowered blood glucose levels in people with type 2 diabetes.
In a preliminary trial, supplementation with 1 gram per day of berberine (one of the active compounds in goldenseal) for two months significantly lowered blood glucose levels in patients with type 2 diabetes.22
1 Star
Urinary Tract Infection
Refer to label instructions
Goldenseal contains berberine, an alkaloid that may prevent UTIs by inhibiting bacteria from adhering to the wall of the urinary bladder
Goldenseal is reputed to help treat many types of infections . It contains berberine, an alkaloid that may prevent UTIs by inhibiting bacteria from adhering to the wall of the urinary bladder.23 Goldenseal and other plants containing berberine (such as Oregon grape ) may help in the treatment of UTIs. These herbs have not, however, been studied for the treatment of UTIs in humans.
1 Star
Refer to label instructions
Goldenseal is antibacterial and may be effective against infectious vaginitis.
Teas of goldenseal, barberry , and echinacea are also sometimes used to treat infectious vaginitis. Although all three plants are known to be antibacterial in the test tube, the effectiveness of these herbs against vaginal infections has not been tested in humans. The usual approach is to douche with one of these teas twice each day, using 1-2 tablespoons (15-30 grams) of herb per pint of water. One to two pints (500-1,000 ml) are usually enough for each douching session. Echinacea is also known to improve immune function in humans.24 In order to increase resistance against infection, many doctors recommend oral use of the tincture or alcohol-preserved fresh juice of echinacea (1 teaspoon (5 ml) three or more times per day)-during all types of infection-to improve resistance.
Traditional Use (May Not Be Supported by Scientific Studies)
Goldenseal was used by Native Americans as a treatment for irritations and inflammation of the mucous membranes of the respiratory, digestive, and urinary tracts. It was commonly used topically for skin and eye infections and has been used historically as a mouthwash to help heal canker sores . Because of its anti-microbial activity, goldenseal has a long history of use for infectious diarrhea , upper respiratory tract infections, and vaginal infections. Goldenseal is often recommended by herbalists in combination with echinacea for the treatment of colds and flu . Its benefits are most likely limited to helping ease the discomfort of a sore throat associated with these conditions. Goldenseal was considered a critical remedy for stomach and intestinal problems of all kinds by early 20th century Eclectic physicians (doctors who recommended herbs).1
How It Works
How It Works
Little research has been done on whole goldenseal root or rhizome, but many studies have evaluated the properties of its two primary alkaloids, berberine and hydrastine. Berberine, the more extensively researched of the two, accounts for 0.5-6.0% of the alkaloids present in goldenseal root and rhizome. However, the effect of goldenseal in the gastrointestinal tract is most likely localized as its alkaloids (particularly berberine) are poorly absorbed into the bloodstream, limiting any systemic antibiotic effects.25 Goldenseal also has strong astringent properties which may partially explain its historical use for sore throats and diarrhea . In test tube studies, it has shown a wide spectrum of antibiotic activity against disease-causing organisms, such as Chlamydia, E. coli, Salmonella typhi, and Entamoeba histolytica. 26 Human trials have used isolated berberine to treat diarrhea and gastroenteritis with good results.27 The whole root has not been clinically studied.
How to Use It
Powdered goldenseal root and rhizome, 4-6 grams per day in tablet or capsule form, is sometimes recommended.28 For liquid herbal extracts, use 2-4 ml three times per day. Alternatively, 250-500 mg three times per day of standardized extracts supplying 8-12% alkaloids, are suggested. Continuous use should not exceed three weeks, with a break of at least two weeks between each use.
Due to environmental concerns of overharvesting,29 many herbalists recommend alternatives to goldenseal, such as Oregon grape or goldthread.
Interactions with Supplements, Foods, & Other Compounds
Interactions with Medicines
Certain medicines interact with this supplement.
Replenish Depleted Nutrients
Reduce Side Effects
Support Medicine
Reduces Effectiveness
Potential Negative Interaction
Berberine, a chemical extracted from goldenseal (Hydrastis canadensis), barberry (Berberis vulgaris), and Oregon grape (Berberis aquifolium), has been shown to have antibacterial activity. One double-blind study found that giving 100 mg of berberine at the same time as 500 mg of tetracycline four times daily led to a reduction of the efficacy of tetracycline in people with cholera.30 Berberine may have decreased the absorption of tetracycline in this study. Another double-blind trial did not find that berberine interfered with tetracycline in cholera patients.31 Until more studies are completed to clarify this issue, berberine-containing herbs should not be taken simultaneously with tetracycline.
Explanation Required
Berberine is a chemical extracted from goldenseal (Hydrastis canadensis), barberry (Berberis vulgaris), and Oregon grape (Berberis aquifolium), which has antibacterial activity. However, one double-blind study found that 100 mg berberine given with tetracycline (a drug closely related to doxycycline) reduced the efficacy of tetracycline in people with cholera.32 In that trial, berberine may have decreased tetracycline absorption. Another double-blind trial found that berberine neither improved nor interfered with tetracycline effectiveness in cholera patients.33 Therefore, it remains unclear whether a significant interaction between berberine-containing herbs and doxycycline and related drugs exists.
Side Effects
Side Effects
Taken as recommended, goldenseal is generally safe. However, as with all alkaloid-containing plants, high amounts (several times higher than the recommended amounts) may lead to gastrointestinal distress and possible nervous system effects.34 Goldenseal is not recommended for pregnant or breast-feeding women. Also, despite some traditional reports, goldenseal is not a substitute for antibiotics.
Related Information
1. Ellingwood F. American Materia Medica, Therapeutics and Pharmacognosy. 1919. Reprint, Sandy, OR: Eclectic Medical Publications, 1998.
2. Nasemann T. Kamillosan therapy in dermatology. Z Allgemeinmed 1975; 25:1105-6.
3. Hahn FE, Ciak J. Berberine. Antibiotics 1976;3:577-88 [review].
4. Mahajan VM, Sharma A, Rattan A. Antimycotic activity of berberine sulphate: an alkaloid from an Indian medicinal herb. Sabouraudia 1982;20:79-81.
5. Bhakat MP. Therapeutic trial of Berberine sulphate in non-specific gastroenteritis. Indian Med J 1974;68:19-23.
6. Kamat SA. Clinical trial with berberine hydrochloride for the control of diarrhoea in acute gastroenteritis. J Assoc Physicians India 1967;15:525-9.
7. Desai AB, Shah KM, Shah DM. Berberine in the treatment of diarrhoea. Indian Pediatr 1971;8:462-5.
8. Blumenthal M, Goldberg A, Brinckmann J. Herbal Medicine: Expanded Commission E Monographs.Newton, MA: Integrative Medicine Communications, 1999.
9. Murray, MT. The Healing Power of Herbs. Rocklin, CA: Prima Publishing, 1995, 162-72.
10. Bradley PR, ed. British Herbal Compendium, Vol. 1. Bournemouth, Dorset, UK: British Herbal Medicine Association, 1992, 119-20.
11. Babbar OP, Chatwal VK, Ray IB, et al. Effect of berberine chloride eye drops on clinically positive trachoma patients. Ind J Med Res 1982;76:83-8.
12. Khin-Maung-U, Myo-Khin, Nyunt-Nyunt-Wai, et al. Clinical trial of berberine in acute watery diarrhoea. Br Med J 1985;291:1601-5.
13. Bae EA, Han MJ, Kim NJ, Kim DH. Anti-Helicobacter pylori activity of herbal medicines. Biol Pharm Bull 1998;21(9):990-2.
14. Schulz V, Hänsel R, Tyler VE. Rational Phytotherapy: A Physician's Guide to Herbal Medicine. 3rd ed, Berlin: Springer, 1998, 168-73.
15. Blumenthal M, Busse WR, Goldberg A, et al. (eds). The Complete German Commission E Monographs: Therapeutic Guide to Herbal Medicines. Austin: American Botanical Council and Boston: Integrative Medicine Communications, 1998, 425-6.
16. Tewari JP, Srivastava MC, Bajpai JL. Pharmacologic studies of Achillea millefolium Linn. Indian J Med Sci 1994;28(8):331-6.
17. Murray MT. The Healing Power of Herbs. Rocklin, CA: Prima Publishing, 1995.
18. Beuscher N, Kopanski L. Stimulation of immunity by the contents of Baptisia tinctoria. Planta Med 1985;5:381-4.
19. Gupte S. Use of berberine in treatment of giardiasis. Am J Dis Child 1975;129:866.
20. Choudhry VP, Sabir M, Bhide VN. Berberine in giardiasis. Indian Pediatr 1972;9:143-6.
21. Kaneda Y, Torii M, Tanaka T, Aikawa M. In vitro effects of berberine sulphate on the growth and structure of Entamoeba histolytica, Giardia lamblia and Trichomonas vaginalis. Ann Trop Med Parasitol 1991;85:417-25.
22. Zhang H, Wei J, Xue R, et al. Berberine lowers blood glucose in type 2 diabetes mellitus patients through increasing insulin receptor expression. Metabolism 2010;59:285-92
23. Sun DX, Abraham SN, Beachey EH. Influence of berberine sulfate on synthesis and expression of pap fimbrial adhesin in uropathogenic Escherichia coli. Antimicrob Agents Chemother 1988;32:1274-7.
24. Melchart D, Linde K, Worku F, et al. Immunomodulation with echinacea-a systematic review of controlled clinical trials. Phytomedicine 1994;1:245-54 [review].
25. Foster S, Tyler VE. Tyler's Honest Herbal. New York: Haworth Herbal Press, 1999, 195-7.
26. Hahn FE, Ciak J. Berberine. Antibiotics 1976;3:577-88 [review].
27. Kamat SA. Clinical trial with berberine hydrochloride for the control of diarrhea in acute gastroenteritis. J Assoc Physicians India 1967;15:525-9.
28. Murray, MT. The Healing Power of Herbs. Rocklin, CA: Prima Publishing, 1995, 162-72.
29. Bannerman JE. Goldenseal in world trade: Pressures and potentials. HerbalGram 1997;41:51-2.
30. Khin-Maung-U, Myo-Khin, Nyunt-Nyunt-Wai, et al. Clinical trial of berberine in acute watery diarrhoea. Br Med J 1985;291:1601-5.
31. Rabbani GH, Butler T, Knight J, et al. Randomized controlled trial of berberine sulfate therapy for diarrhea due to enterotoxigenic Escherichia coli and Vibrio cholerae. J Infect Dis 1987;155:979-84.
32. Khin-Maung-U, Myo-Khin, Nyunt-Nyunt-Wai, et al. Clinical trial of berberine in acute watery diarrhoea. Br Med J 1985;291:1601-5.
33. Rabbani GH, Butler T, Knight J, et al. Randomized controlled trial of berberine sulfate therapy for diarrhea due to enterotoxigenic Escherichia coli and Vibrio cholerae. J Infect Dis 1987;155:979-84.
34. Newall CA, Anderson LA, Phillipson JD. Herbal Medicines: A Guide for Health-Care Professionals. London: Pharmaceutical Press, 1996, 151-2.
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Catching more flies with honey
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Originally Posted by Lillian J
And that's what differentiates if from unschooling. The question with an unschooler wouldn't be "I'll see if he can learn it," but "I'll see if he has any interest in it."
|efore my son was born, by the way, I was quite the expert about parenting.
Originally Posted by pookel
Look, I get the point, but at the same time, I'm not going to pretend I don't have any opinions just because I haven't had much personal experience homeschooling my own kids yet. I have been a child, I have spent time with other people's children, I have studied homeschooling philosophies extensively for years - and I wouldn't tell Grace Llewellyn that she might change her mind about the benefits of structured homeschooling once she has kids of her own.
Originally Posted by Roar
Right, all people have a set of beliefs about what will make their kids happy. Why is it okay for you to have a set of beliefs about ballet and to check and confirm them and proceed accordingly, but it is instantly suspect if someone has a set of beliefs about say math. How is your daughter safe from you having a set of expectations when you clearly have one? Because your set of expectations is cooler somehow because it doesn't sound academic?
|Is your belief that the child can always sense the difference? I mean if kids are so darn whipped by their frenzy of dependence
|on their parents how can they distinguish between "There's a ballet on Thursday to you want to go" and "there's a ballet on Thursday do you want to go" (and I think that it is because the arts are important).
|Is it possible that knowing math facts at three could be something really happy for some people? That to think about math is so fundamental to their experience of being human? It wouldn't be for me, but I can imagine for others it may well be
|Interesting my take on it is totally different. I see that in a family that pays attention to these concerns and builds a strong relationship a child is at their safest to say what works for them and what doesn't.
|Further, out of their love for the child the parent offers the extra level of protection of really knowing the child and offering some protection. Whereas, you see dangers of "coercion" and "guiding" I see a parent who trusts their kid.
|On the other hand, the teacher may well not care about this student at all. They may not care about the big picture of what is good for her. For example, they may seek to promote an image of an ideal body that would actually be quite unhealthy or seek to push rapid progress in a subject as means of validating their skills as a teacher.
|For parents to "guide" is toxic, but for a child to be taught according to a rigid curriculum by a random stranger is entirely safe.
|But, other people who teach about math are "coercive" or engaging in dangerous "guiding" behavior. Double standard if I've ever heard one. Your daugther is some how magically secure enough not to be harmed by your teaching but other kids are not.
Single mom to Rain (1/93) , grad student, and world traveler
Originally Posted by Dar
Teaching is fine, with the freely-given consent of the learner, be it addition, knitting, or how to load a dishwasher. No magic, no double standard..........
She saw me adding up games scores one day and asked how I did it, and I explained it. It was lovely... and it was all hers and all joyful. She felt the same way when she learned to fold towels. Actually, pretty much all of her learning has been entirely joyful. That's what unschooling - learning without being "guided" or "steered" - is like.
Originally Posted by chfriend
Here's the part of that article that really caught my eye:
"If a complaint occurs when you simply state the alternative, double the consequence. (But make sure you forewarn the child of this result! Otherwise you will produce resentment.) One parent who successfully broke the habit of complaining with his child continually doubled the work so that it filled all of the child's free time for two days. The child stopped complaining.
Tell the child that specific assignments have to be completed before play-time begins. Then carry through; refuse to excuse the child for play until the work is done. A good rule might be, 'If you play during study time, you must study during play time.'"
I could conclude that I don't even have to send my kid to school for them to lose recess!
I don't believe that the vast majority of the WTM parents on MDC use this particular approach. And I don't think it's the method per se that causes this kind of punitive approach. It is the reason that while I enjoy some of the resources parent-structured hsing suggest, I can't see myself going there.
Originally Posted by Lisalucy
I've a question to ask, and I'm not familiar with the quote feature, so if you would bear with me...
Going back to the benefit of teaching history in chronological order: If you are presenting history chronologically -- let's say you're studying ancients -- and your child is interested in English queens or flight so you read up about that too, then isn't your child learning out of order?
I guess what I'm getting at is, don't we all have the ability to take in all different kinds of information and put that into a comprehensive whole? Isn't that what our brains just do? Why would learning be so different from the rest of life that it should be so neat and tidy?
I'm nak and this is really slow going, so stopping for now.
Originally Posted by Dar
Sre you talking about your child? Surely not mine... it's 8:43 pm here and I have yet to see her or speak with her today, but I'm sure she's fine. Dependent she's not, though.dar
Originally Posted by Dar
I think that children can often tell when people are suggesting an activity because they have ulterior motives, yes. dar
Originally Posted by Dar
Math is really a huge subject... a lot of people fall into the trap of thinking of it as simply arithmetic, but that's such a small piece of it.dar
Originally Posted by Dar
A few people will want to learn addition facts at 3, sure, although I can't imagine it being fundamental to their humanity... but all people want to be happy. There's a big difference between the two.dar
Originally Posted by Dar
And I think a parent who takes the time to build a strong relationship with a child and avoids coercing her will have a child who trusts the parent enough to tell the parent when something isn't working for her... something my daughter has done with classes since she was 3, but your son was unable to do.dar
Originally Posted by Dar
and she's always known more about what she likes than I do. dar
Originally Posted by Dar
But this isn't a random stranger. This is a well-trained professional who is teaching Rain the way she wants to be taught.dar
Originally Posted by Dar
Maybe it's the word "guide" that we're hung up on. When I say guide, I mean To direct the course of; steer and To exert control or influence over.. Do I advise, offer information, share my theories, answer questions? Sure. Then I leave it up to her.dar
Originally Posted by Dar
Please, take a minute to stop and actually read what I say, rather than dashing off replies where you once again create straw men and knock them down. You're so clearly not understanding what unschooling is, and there are so many great posts on this and other threads.dar
Originally Posted by Dar
Teaching is fine, with the freely-given consent of the learner, be it addition, knitting, or how to load a dishwasher. No magic, no double standard.dar
Originally Posted by Dar
When Rain first learned the standard addition algorithm (from me) she thought it was the greatest thing, and went around asking everyone to write her some very long addition problems. She preferred twenty-plus digit numbers. She'd been able to add 3 and 4-digit numbers in her head for a while, but couldn't keep longer numbers straight. She saw me adding up games scores one day and asked how I did it, and I explained it. It was lovely... and it was all hers and all joyful. She felt the same way when she learned to fold towels. Actually, pretty much all of her learning has been entirely joyful. That's what unschooling - learning without being "guided" or "steered" - is like. dar
Originally Posted by Brisen
I agree.
Originally Posted by Lillian J
: Okay, okay - but I still think you'll find the reality somewhat different from the theory, just as it is for basic parenting. I certainly did! I read a LOT, heard a lot of very convincing talk at conferences from some very impressive people who'd been there/done that, talked to local unschoolers, and I still found that it had to be demonstrated in front of my own eyes by my own son before I got it, and even then I was a little slow.
|This thread isn't about convincing anyone they should be unschooling - it's about discussing whether unschooling is a good a idea, which, as some of us have said, is an idea people of other philosophies would have a fit over if anyone started a thread dissecting their choices.
Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire
why compel a child to re-invent the wheel, as it were, reconstructing a chronological understanding of history when it would have been simpler (and just as rewarding) to present it in order?
Originally Posted by Roar
Do you think it is appropriate to assume that if someone disagrees with you that they aren't reading well or just don't understand what you do?
Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama
It's just that you never seem to be able to comprehend another's perspective without blowing it all over the place, then declaring it unworthy, or full of hypothetical problems. You come across as extremely defensive and angry. There are others on here who can challenge, disagree, or agree with posts, respectfully; but you seem very vested in an oppositional outcome to the discussion. As you wish. I imagine you'll find what you're looking for.
|I'm trying to understand the distinction that teachers outside of the family are equipped with a different set of options.
|I see no problem with seeking to influence or steer a child and I believe that any parent who is really being honest will admit it is something they do on a regular basis.
|And, if the child says "I trust you and nearly always like what you pick, bring it on" - then the family is unschooling even if the parent picks many of the activities and sets a time when those activities are done? As long as the child expresses their consent to learn by this method and if the parent stops when the kid says no - you don't see this as coercive or damaging?
|Do you think it is appropriate to assume that if someone disagrees with you that they aren't reading well or just don't understand what you do?
but everything has pros and cons
Originally Posted by Roar
The one place I personally am not going to go is in directing posts at a person with lots of "you" statements like in this post. I don't think it is the road to interesting or thought provoking discussion and I'm not interested in participating in that kind of discussion.
Originally Posted by Roar
Do you mean to be condescending?
Originally Posted by Roar
Because your set of expectations is cooler somehow because it doesn't sound academic?
Originally Posted by Roar
Okay, you weren't parented in an authoritarian manner but any time someone expects something from you it causes you to "shut down" and that strikes you as an unmovable characteristic, a fact, something perfectly fine?
Originally Posted by Roar
How do you think this will work out for your son?
Originally Posted by Roar
Does this seem fully functional and healthy to you? Do you at all see this developing in a broader context for you? I don't know you, but I will say that other people I know who have voiced this have been people who were parented and schooled in a high authoritarian manner and as a result always felt threatened and unable to easily accept help from others.
Originally Posted by Roar
She sounds like a great kid. From a distance anyway it sounds like a lack of trust in yourself and in your daughter that you could "guide" or "teach" without coercion or that she couldn't follow without going against her true feelings out of desperation to please you. I think that is unfortunate.
What kind of life do you see for him when he's 25 or 50?
Originally Posted by Roar
Also, do you maintain that you have no agenda at all? No desire to guide your child in any direction - equally happy if she is a serial murderer or loving mother, a homeless person or a midwife? Would your daughter have any idea which of these options you might prefer and if so will it make her do the opposite just to be "free".
Originally Posted by Roar
Your contention is that if children want to please their parents than automatically it will lead to guilt, anger or some type of trauma. No doubt your daughter is aware that you'd prefer it if she was kind than if she was violent. If she has a happy family than if she's a hobo. That she is gentle with the pets instead of cutting them with knives. If your daugther has on any level internalized your set of goals or your standards how is she not automatically experiencing the guilt, anger or trauma?"
Originally Posted by eminer
But is this a realistic picture of what would happen without a comprehensive history curriculum? Chronological understandings are simply part of the study of history. Most history books (not textbooks, just books) contain timelines, as well as numerous dates, cross-contextual references, etc. Historians think in those terms. All of us make casual reference to the order of events, and to where they fall on a timeline, all the time. For example, "Your grandparents met during World War II. [Insert tale of romance, punctuated by events in grandfather's tenure as a soldier.] They got married in...let's see, 1949. After the war, yadda yadda yadda."
|A novel, as a work of art, has a much stronger sense of linear directionality than do human events. Yeah, IRL, one thing leads to another, but there are lots of things leading to lots of other things, and the causes are fuzzy.
Anyone can pick up a western civ text and be "enlightened" in a week, once s/he is old enough.
|That's mere information, much of which will be picked up in regular reading and conversation, if one is living in a literate environment. Re-inventing the wheel is how we learn skills. (Granted, skilled people can help and demonstrate, but ultimately, skill learning is always a sort of re-discovery for each person.) Having a profound, useful understanding of an academic subject means being skilled, at least to a limited degree, in the disciplinary habits involved. Not everyone is going to grow up to be a historian, but everyone can use a sophisticated understanding of what history is, what it's for, where it comes from.
Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama
And it disturbs ME that so many people are voting without a in-depth and proper understanding of the conflagration otherwise known as "Vietnam," or the Nixon Watergate hearings, or the battle for civil rights - even for those lowly PETA demonstrators - or why exactly we have a separation of powers. Or did. I mean, our own government certainly doesn't, never mind the voters.
Good thing I'm not the educational hall monitor, eh?
Originally Posted by poohs_mama
It had never ever occurred to me the unschooling could be judged that it is based on fear.
Originally Posted by Brigianna
Well, those things are important too. But to fully understand those things, don't you have to understand the philosophical basis for them, and the context of those ideas? Where does the idea of separation of powers come from? Where does the idea of free speech for PETA demonstrators come from? This is where I think understanding Western civ. comes in. And if our own government doesn't understand them, doesn't that come back to the voters who elected them, and their (the voters') own civic knowledge or lack thereof?
Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire
Sorry, it's late, but I guess I'm not seeing your point
|I agree; it's very difficult to construct a sense of a timeline without a comprehensive history program.
|It's not impossible, of course, but why put your child through the effort of trying to piece it all together in the first place?
|Any analogy is imperfect because, at base, when you're comparing X to Y, ultimately, X is not Y. The novel comparison was an analogy used to clarify my point about why it was, IMHO, unnecessarily confusing to study history out of chronological order.
|Maybe you went to college with smarter people than I did. From what I saw in my various Western Civ classes, it took more effort than that.
|Yes, inventing the wheel is a skill. However, as I'm sure you probably do know, the phrase "reinventing the wheel" is used to express the idea that a certain idea or method already exists; therefore, it is pointless to "invent" that idea or method from scratch -- or, if not pointless, an effort whose returns are disproportionately small compared to the amount of effort put in to "invent" the idea or method.
Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire
Do we all have the ability to put information into a comprehensive whole? No, no we don't. Some people really stink at it while others are quite proficient -- but my question is this: why compel a child to re-invent the wheel, as it were, reconstructing a chronological understanding of history
|...when it would have been simpler (and just as rewarding) to present it in order?
|Here's what I mean: I suppose that, if you wanted to, you could read a book in any particular order you wanted to. Let's say you like the number "sixteen," so you start at chapter 16 and read it. Then, flipping through the book, you notice chapter 45 begins with the word "Cinnamon," which you like to eat, so you read that. Then you read chapter 5, and so on.
Now, after we've read all the chapters -- and man, you'd have to check them off or something in the table of contents to make sure you'd read them all -- I suppose that it would be possible to say, "Now, tell me the plot of the novel from the beginning to 'They all lived happily ever after to the end of their days,'" and people might be able to do it -- but WHY? Why not simply start at chapter one and, well, read it?
but everything has pros and cons
Originally Posted by Charles Baudelaire
I worry about coercion. I am concerned about my dd's desire to please, and the fact that yeah, we do have a plan that's basically adult-initiated. To balance that, I try to listen to her, to ask, and not to force things she's obviously not particularly interested in...or wait until later. But who knows???
|YES, and that was something I really didn't figure out until college when (surprise, surprise) they taught literature and the history that pertained to it in order, from Beowulf to Virginia Woolf, and I saw the relationship between (for example) Addison and Steele's Spectator papers and Ben Franklin's Poor Richard, from Hume and Locke to Jefferson. The messed-up way it's taught in PS, you can't really make those connections
|and please forgive my disagreement that people will "make these connections for themselves." Some will, I'm sure, but I find them very much in the minority, and more than that, to *make* them make those connections themselves...well, that's really back to that "reinventing the wheel" issue again. Why should they have to when a decent, orderly history program would make those connections very clear??
|Then again, sometimes I think that the purpose of PS is to make people stupid.
|I would agree, but I'd also like to say that that advantage isn't just exclusive to USing, although I'll certainly concede that USing is the most responsive of the HSing methods to the child's needs and desires.
Originally Posted by Roar
You and I probably have entirely different definitions of ulterior motives. If I believe arts are often a part of having a happy life and I'd like my kid to have a chance to see if that is true for him, I suppose that's an ulterior motive. I don't feel uncomfortable with saying I have an agenda and I seek to guide my child in some ways. I trust both of us to enough to know this doesn't spell doom.
Originally Posted by Roar
For some people math may be the thing that makes them happiest. It may well be the thing at three years old that they spend most of their time thinking about.
Originally Posted by Roar
I trust my child to be able to tell me when something works and when something doesn't. That's why I don't fear guiding his learning at times.
Originally Posted by Roar
I'm really pleased for your daughter that she had at the age of three the complete ability to know all the options available and which ones she'd love the best. We've found we need to try things out and some work and some don't and we learn along the way...I still try out new things and some work and some don't and I'm fully aware there may be a set of options to learn about that I haven't discovered yet.
Originally Posted by Roar
Really ahead of time she always knows? I will say that this isn't true for me. Sometimes I'll think a book or a food or an activity isn't something that would appeal to me, but someone I trust might suggest for a particular reason I might enjoy it. They may seek to influence my choices and sure enough more often than not they are right. They may have had an experience with this thing that I have not and I appreciate that they are willing to share that with me. I've seem similar situations with my son. There are things that he thought initially weren't his dream come true that with a wee bit more exposure turned out to among his favorites. You can see that as horrible manipulation, I see it as trusting those around you and being willing to give their ideas a try.
Originally Posted by Roar
If this is a class I presume Rain's interests don't dictate the agenda for everyone in the class correct? At times the instructor may make the choice that they will work on a particular set of skills for that class period. So, while Rain may want to take ballet, every single thing that happens in that class isn't her choice. Sometimes if she wishes to study with this teacher she will go along with an approach that may not be the one she'd choose. Correct?
How does it work for her teacher in those situations to be a guide or to steer Rain's learning. Is that not dangerous because she isn't dependent on him? If you did the same thing would it be okay? I'm trying to understand the distinction that teachers outside of the family are equipped with a different set of options.
Originally Posted by Roar
I see no problem with seeking to influence or steer a child and I believe that any parent who is really being honest will admit it is something they do on a regular basis.
Originally Posted by Roar
And, if the child says "I trust you and nearly always like what you pick, bring it on" - then the family is unschooling even if the parent picks many of the activities and sets a time when those activities are done? As long as the child expresses their consent to learn by this method and if the parent stops when the kid says no - you don't see this as coercive or damaging?
Originally Posted by Roar
Some things, like reading and the four basic arithmatic operations, my son has learned 100% on his own without guidance and those things brought him joy. Some things like Latin he's learned with some guidance and it brought him joy. Some other things like learning to run he learned with an immense amount of steering (sometimes as in "yikes, you are about to run into a tree") and guidance. All of these experiences were full of joy because learning is joy to him. I suppose had we never steered, guided or sought to influence we might believe that the learning that comes was "all his" was what made it joyful, but we've seen lots of kinds of learning and we know better.
ME&HE... loving our: dd(18) ~~ds(13) dd(13)~~ dd(10)
Originally Posted by Brigianna
Well, those things are important too. But to fully understand those things, don't you have to understand the philosophical basis for them, and the context of those ideas? Where does the idea of separation of powers come from? Where does the idea of free speech for PETA demonstrators come from? This is where I think understanding Western civ. comes in. And if our own government doesn't understand them, doesn't that come back to the voters who elected them, and their (the voters') own civic knowledge or lack thereof?
ME&HE... loving our: dd(18) ~~ds(13) dd(13)~~ dd(10)
Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama
Well, if you could work a few corporations, high-concept marketing agencies, and K Street lobbyists in there (and I know you can, Brigianna ), then um, yeah. Sort of. Voters are responsible, but it's one heckuva juggernaut they're up against, and it's not simply reducible to the fact that they don't understand the Magna Carta;or the Know-Nothing party; or any one of many assorted and equally important facets of American history. And in other news, juggernaut is such a great word, and so rarely used.
|I would be happy if even all Americans voted, or simply knew where Iraq was on a map. Let's not set our sights toooooo high here.
Originally Posted by Linda on the move
I don't think it is ever as rewarding to be spoon fed something as to discover it for yourself for your own reasons.
Originally Posted by pookel
Maybe this is part of the fundamental philosophical divide here. I, personally, don't find discovery very rewarding, especially not when what I'm discovering isn't in any way new or original. When I laboriously figure something out for myself and then see a text that explains it all, my reaction isn't "hey, I figured that out on my own first, cool!" It's "well, there was a waste of two hours, I guess I should have just looked this up."
I find *knowledge* to be rewarding - and the fewer steps there are to gaining that knowledge, the better.
Originally Posted by deeporgarten
No, I don't think there is one direction to come at "full" understanding of those things. Or several prerequisite pieces to make the idea worthwhile. Very little belongs to younger children. And learning about one major human rights topic and its history is just as good as surveying a long series, even for older kids--they will get as much philosophy and as much of a feel for the landscape of political change this way.
To me, history is very web-like and I feel threads connecting distant events and complex organic patterns to all of it, along with complex organic patterns to learning. Linear sequences are one way to conceptualize history, but it is very limited. Nothing is wrong with simply weaving along through many threads and exploring how one thing connects to another in ways different than sequencing or geographical grouping.
I never learned any substantial history until I was an adult. Now I love it, but I am not trying to memorize it at all. I simply connect and reconnect with meaningful things, that also connect with science and agriculture and art history and spirituality and psychology through time. Chronology would seem like a weird little box to learn from.
Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama
Oh gosh, I have no idea where I got that observation from.
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David Stokesbary
David Stokesbary
Dr. David Lyle Stokesbary, 72, a long-time resident of South Laguna Beach, Calif., died Dec. 1 at his Waimea home. Born Dec. 16, 1939, in Ferndale, Wash., he was an orthopedic surgeon, a researcher in California and a Vietnam War Army veteran.
Friends may call at noon Dec. 5 at West Hawaii Veterans Cemetery for a graveside service with military honors.
He is survived by wife, Kailin Stokesbary of Waimea; son, Tai Stokesbary of Waimea; daughters, Mei-jen Stokesbary of Waimea, Jen-ai Stokesbary (Ben Griffin) of Colorado; brothers, Burt Stokesbary of Kauai, Jon (Eileen) Stokesbary of Oahu.
Arrangements by A Hui Hou Crematory & Funeral Home of West Hawaii.


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Planning For Your Digital Life After Death
When we die, we leave behind more than friends and family, homes and possessions. These days, we leave behind Facebook profiles and Twitter accounts and thousands of emails.
For Dr. Stephen Kelly, tapping into that digital footprint is a way to stay connected to his son John, who passed away two years ago. Once or twice a year, Kelly checks John's Facebook account to read the messages and memories his friends have been posting.
"It's a little bit, you know, unusual. I do leave a message. I post a message from us. Just thanking people for remembering him," Kelly told reporter Stan Alcorn.
Kelly is able to stay in touch like this because he could guess John's password. It was lucky, but it may also be illegal. Laws reaching back decades ban unauthorized access to computers and data. As a result, some tech entrepreneurs are stepping in to offer digital estate planning services.
Also on this week's show, host Manoush Zomorodi talks to Anil Dash, who recently wrote the blog post "The Web We Lost" about the way the Internet used to be.
"There is an ignorance or a lack of history to the way that a lot of people that build the social networks, especially the young engineers, think about this because they weren't around to see it any other way," Dash said.
He said he'd like to see the new generation of tech leaders hearken back to some of the collaboration of the Internet's early years – especially when it comes to putting the user experience first.


text:
Thoracic Spine Neurology: Impact on Chiropractic Practice
Thoracic pain is less prevalent than low back pain and is generally more difficult to recognize in the clinical setting. Thoracic pain is also more often attributed to serious conditions arising from the thoracic viscera.As a result, it is often the case that only incidental attention is given to examination, diagnosis and treatment of the thoracic spine, despite the fact that dysfunction in this area can lead to considerable pain and discomfort.
This paper constitutes a review of the literature addressing functional anatomy and neurology as applied to the thoracic spine. The innervation of articular and para-articular structures in the thoracic spine is discussed, leading to further discussion on the unique proximity and contribution of the sympathetic nervous system in innervating thoracic joints.
The authors pose clinical considerations relating to the unique anatomy and neurology of the thoracic spine, in addition to providing a thorough review of the neurology of this area from a chiropractic perspective. Functional anatomy is addressed and related to clinical practice and injury patterns.
Conclusion: There is an abundance of rich sensory innervation throughout the thoracic spine that can contribute to the production of pain. The authors suggest that although the thoracic spine is often overlooked in favor of lumbar and cervical spinal segments (which often show more clearly defined symptoms), this region "may provide one of the more intriguing areas for research and refinement of chiropractic interventions."
Hayek R, Henderson CNR, Hayek AFE. Unique features of the thoracic spine: impact on chiropractic management. Topics in Clinical Chiropractic, Sept. 1999:6(3), pp69-78.
Reprints: (800) 638-8437


text:
The Walhalla motive indicates not only the place, but the origin of persons who come thence.
Find on the map the great Walhalla Plateau in the east of the canyon.
Hildr is the name of one of the Scandinavian Walkyries, or battle-maidens, who transport the spirits of the slain to Walhalla.
That you are not to blame for; but if your souls are not pure, you will never come into Walhalla.
In the town of Walhalla a school conducted by the Methodist church was taught by a lady from Vermont.
The one great enjoyment of all who dwell in Walhalla was combat and strife.
He was always "much more Prussian than German," and reasonable terms could be made with the Walhalla.
The hero, doomed to perish, must be conducted by the Walkyria to Walhalla.
She wanted to sing the Walhalla motif, but the Walhalla motif cannot be sung.
Walhalla was said to be a hall of such size that the roof could not be seen.


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- First Online:
- Cite this article as:
- Murdoch, D., Goa, K.L. & Keam, S.J. Drugs (2003) 63: 2051. doi:10.2165/00003495-200363190-00010
- 207 Downloads
Desloratadine (Clarinex®, Neoclarityn™ Aerius®, Azomyr®, Opulis, Allex), the principal metabolite of loratadine, is itself an orally active, nonsedating, peripheral histamine H1-receptor antagonist. It is indicated in the US and Europe for the treatment of seasonal allergic rhinitis (SAR), perennial allergic rhinitis (PAR) and chronic idiopathic urticaria (CIU). It has a rapid onset of effect, efficacy throughout a 24-hour dosage interval, and sustained efficacy in these allergic conditions, as demonstrated in placebo-controlled trials of up to 6 weeks' duration in adult and adolescent patients. At present, there are no published direct comparisons of desloratadine and other H1-antihistamines; however, the principal, potential clinical advantages of desloratadine over late-generation H1-antihistamines are the drug's decongestant activity, which has been corroborated in several studies of patients with allergic rhinitis, and its anti-inflammatory effects. Indeed, the decongestant activity of desloratadine did not differ from that of pseudoephedrine in a trial in patients with SAR, and in patients with SAR and coexisting asthma, desloratadine reduced asthma symptoms and β2-agonist use, and improved forced expiratory flow in 1 second. However, these issues warrant further study.
Desloratadine is generally well tolerated. The overall incidence of adverse events in adults, adolescents and children was not significantly different to that with placebo, and similar proportions of desloratadine or placebo recipients reported events such as pharyngitis, dry mouth, myalgia, somnolence, dysmenorrhoea or fatigue. Desloratadine does not cause sedation or prolong the corrected QT (QTc) interval, can be administered without regard to concurrent intake of food and grapefruit juice, and appears to have negligible potential for drug interactions mediated by several metabolic systems.
Conclusion: Although comparative studies with second-generation and other recently developed H1-antihistamines are needed to define the drug's clinical profile more clearly, desloratadine can be expected to claim a prominent place in the management of allergic disorders in general, and in the amelioration of specific symptoms of allergy (e.g. nasal congestion) in patients with such disorders.
Pharmacodynamic Properties
In vitro, desloratadine has marked selectivity for histamine H1 receptors, where it is approximately 50–200 times more potent than loratadine, fexofenadine or cetirizine. Desloratadine has no marked antimuscarinic activity at concentrations likely to be attained clinically.
A single dose of desloratadine 5mg had a rapid onset of action (≈28 minutes) in patients with seasonal allergic rhinitis (SAR). Nasal patency and nasal airflow are maintained to a greater extent with desloratadine than with placebo following allergen challenge in patients with SAR. Several studies also reveal that desloratadine 5–7.5 mg/day significantly reduces nasal congestion after a single dose, and for up to 4 weeks during multiple-dose therapy; however, no significant additional decongestant activity was reported for the 7.5mg over the 5mg dose. Significant desloratadine-induced improvements have been documented in total nasal symptoms and nasal discharge, sneezing, itchy nose, eyes, ears or palate, and tearing. Similar efficacy outcomes have been reported in patients with perennial allergic rhinitis (PAR).
Single-dose desloratadine 5mg suppressed histamine-induced wheal and flare to a lesser extent than fexofenadine 180mg and cetirizine 10mg in studies in healthy volunteers. However, the relevance of such findings to clinical efficacy in patients with chronic idiopathic urticaria (CIU) remains unclear.
Desloratadine does not significantly inhibit cardiac potassium channels in vitro. In healthy volunteers, multiple-dose administration of desloratadine at nine times the recommended dosage had no clinically relevant effect on ECG parameters. Furthermore, several studies in healthy volunteers and patients with SAR suggest that desloratadine is without significant CNS activity: a single dose of desloratadine 5 or 7.5mg, unlike diphenhydramine 50mg, had no sedative or performance-impairing activity compared with placebo. In healthy volunteers, desloratadine does not potentiate the effects of alcohol.
Pharmacokinetic Properties
Desloratadine is rapidly absorbed after oral administration, and the pharmacokinetic profile is linear across the single-dose range of 5–20mg. The multiple- and single-dose pharmacokinetic profiles of desloratadine are generally similar. Steady-state plasma concentrations are reached by day 7 of treatment with desloratadine 5 mg/day. After administration of desloratadine 5 mg once daily for 10 days in healthy volunteers, a mean peak plasma concentration (Cmax) of 3.98 μg/L was achieved in a mean time 3.17 hours; mean area under the plasma concentration-time curve from time zero to 24 hours (AUC24h) was 56.9 μg · h/L. Food does not markedly alter the oral bioavailability of desloratadine. About 82–87% of a dose of desloratadine is bound to plasma proteins.
Desloratadine is extensively metabolised to its principal active metabolite, 3-hydroxy desloratadine, which is subsequently deactivated by glucuronidation. The cytochrome P450 (CYP) isoenzyme that metabolises desloratadine has not been identified, but CYP3A4 and CYP2D6 are unlikely to be extensively involved. Although approximately 20% of African Americans and 6–7% of the general population are slow metabolisers of desloratadine, the clinical significance of this is unknown.
After administration of desloratadine 5mg for 10 days in healthy volunteers, the terminal phase half-life was 26.8 hours. About 40% of an administered dose is excreted in the urine and about 45% in the faeces as metabolites.
Pharmacokinetic equivalence was established in healthy children aged 2–5 or 6–11 years who received desloratadine 1.25 or 2.5mg as an oral syrup formulation and adults who received desloratadine 5mg as a tablet.
Age, sex and race appear to have no major effect on the pharmacokinetics of desloratadine. However, because of altered Cmax, AUC and apparent oral clearance, desloratadine dosage adjustments are advocated in the US in patients with hepatic or renal impairment of all severities.
Desloratadine does not interact significantly with individual inhibitors of CYP3A4 or CYP2D6, such as erythromycin, ketoconazole, cimetidine and fluoxetine, or with azithromycin. No changes in ECG parameters were evident when these compounds were administered concomitantly with desloratadine. In contrast, increases in fexofenadine AUC of 67–164% were reported when erythromycin, ketoconazole or azithromycin was administered with fexofenadine. Moreover, unlike desloratadine, fexofenadine has been shown to interact with food, antacids and grapefruit juice such that its absorption is markedly reduced.
Therapeutic Efficacy
Several randomised, double-blind, multicentre or single-centre studies demonstrated the superior efficacy of desloratadine relative to placebo in patients with SAR. In a dose-ranging study in >1000 patients, desloratadine 5–20 mg/day versus placebo significantly reduced day 2 and 2-week mean morning instantaneous scores for total symptoms (i.e. nasal itching, nasal stuffiness/congestion, rhinor-rhoea and sneezing) [p < 0.01]. Dosages of 7.5, 10 or 20 mg/day had no efficacy advantage over 5 mg/day, and the 2.5 mg/day regimen had no advantage over placebo. Desloratadine 5 mg/day significantly reduced mean morning/evening reflective scores for total, total nasal and total non-nasal symptoms versus placebo in two 2-week studies in a total of 672 evaluable patients during the spring or fall allergy season and in another 2-week study in 218 patients during three allergy seasons (all p < 0.05). Furthermore, desloratadine 5 mg/day significantly reduced mean morning/evening nasal congestion scores versus placebo in a 2-week study in 346 patients with SAR (p < 0.05). In another well-designed trial, which involved >1000 patients, the reduction in mean nasal congestion score over 2 weeks with desloratadine 5 mg/day did not differ from that with pseudoephedrine 240 mg/day, and desloratadine had significant, additive decongestant activity when given in combination with pseudoephedrine. Pooled data from a database of >1300 patients with SAR also ascribe to desloratadine the ability to significantly reduce nasal congestion/stuffiness versus placebo (p ≤ 0.02).
In two observational studies of a total of ≈54 000 patients with SAR, desloratadine reduced scores for total, nasal, ocular, asthma and dermal symptoms, and for sleep disturbance by approximately 55–75% versus baseline, and 85% of patients were less bothered by their most troublesome symptom after desloratadine treatment. Two other studies showed that desloratadine improved quality of life compared with placebo in domains of the Rhinoconjunctivitis Quality of Life Questionnaire and Short Form-36 in a total of >800 patients with SAR.
Two randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled, multicentre studies have demonstrated the efficacy of desloratadine in reducing rhinitis symptoms in patients with SAR and coexisting asthma. These trials evaluated a total of 613 patients aged ≥15 years who were randomised to receive desloratadine 5 mg/day or placebo for 4 weeks. Besides producing significant improvements (p < 0.05 vs placebo) in overall, total asthma, total nasal and total non-nasal symptoms, and nasal congestion, desloratadine significantly reduced the use of rescue antiasthmatic medication with β2-agonists, and scores for the specific asthma symptoms of cough and wheezing. A subgroup analysis of 189 patients with baseline forced expiratory flow in 1 second (FEV1) ≤80% also revealed significant improvement in FEV1 during and at the end of desloratadine treatment (p ≤ 0.02). Moreover, in a postmarketing surveillance study in which approximately 40% of almost 50 000 patients with SAR reported at least one symptom of asthma at baseline, desloratadine significantly reduced mean asthma symptom-sum score by >70% ( p < 0.0001).
To date, two studies have been published of the efficacy of desloratadine in patients with perennial allergic rhinitis. In these large-scale trials, desloratadine had a rapid onset of effect, as indicated in one study by a significant reduction (vs placebo) in mean total symptom score (TSS) 12 hours after the first study dose. Desloratadine efficacy was also sustained, compared with placebo, as evident from improvements in mean 4-week morning/evening instantaneous TSS and reflective scores for total nasal and total non-nasal symptoms, and peak nasal inspiratory flow.
Desloratadine has shown efficacy in patients with CIU. In two randomised, double-blind trials, desloratadine 5 mg/day for 6 weeks significantly decreased (p < 0.001 vs placebo) the primary efficacy mean symptom score for pruritus. These effects were observed after the first dose and were maintained throughout the 6-week trials. Secondary analysis scores for pruritus and interference with sleep and daily activities, and number and size of hives were also reduced in comparison with placebo. In addition, desloratadine was effective throughout a 24-hour dosage interval. In an open-label trial, approximately 50% of patients had no symptoms of urticaria after desloratadine therapy (5 mg/day for 4 weeks). Similarly, in a postmarketing surveillance study in 9246 patients with CIU, desloratadine significantly reduced CIU symptoms and decreased the effect of CIU on sleep and daily activities versus baseline (p < 0.001).
Tolerability information is available from randomised, double-blind studies of desloratadine involving a total of 3124 adult or adolescent patients with allergic rhinitis (with or without coexisting asthma) or CIU in which desloratadine 1.25–20 mg/day was administered for 2–6 weeks. In placebo-controlled trials evaluating desloratadine 5 mg/day, the total incidence of treatment-related adverse events was similar in desloratadine-treated patients and placebo recipients (15–22% vs 14% of patients). Additional information from the manufacturer's prescribing information reveals that in 3307 patients with allergic rhinitis who received the recommended desloratadine dosage of 5 mg/day (n = 1655) or placebo (1652) the most frequently reported adverse events that occurred more commonly with desloratadine than with placebo and were reported by ≥2% of desloratadine recipients were pharyngitis (4.1% vs 2.0%), dry mouth (3.0% vs 1.9%), myalgia (2.1% vs 1.8%), somnolence (2.1% vs 1.8%), dysmenorrhoea (2.1% vs 1.6%) and fatigue (2.1% vs 1.2%); however, these differences were not statistically significant. None of the adverse events was serious, most were mild or moderate in severity, and treatment withdrawal due to adverse events was required in only a few patients. Desloratadine had no clinically relevant effects on vital signs, physical examinations, laboratory tests (including tests of renal and hepatic function), or on ECG parameters (including QTc interval).
In a postmarketing surveillance study in which almost 80 000 patients with SAR were treated with desloratadine, 287 patients (overall incidence of 0.37% of patients) reported adverse events. The most common events considered possibly or probably related to treatment were fatigue, headache, nausea, dry mouth and diarrhoea (all ≤0.07%).
Desloratadine 1.25 or 2.5 mg/day was well tolerated in two randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled trials in 111 and 120 children with allergic rhinitis or CIU aged <12 years. The incidence of headache (the most frequently reported adverse event) in children aged 2–5 or 6–11 years with desloratadine (1.8% and 1.7%) was lower than with placebo (5.4% and 6.7%), although differences were not statistically significant.
Dosage and Administration
In the US and Europe, desloratadine is approved for the treatment of allergic rhinitis (caused by perennial indoor or seasonal outdoor allergens) and CIU in adult and adolescent patients aged ≥12 years. Desloratadine is also approved in Europe for the treatment of perennial or seasonal allergic rhinitis and CIU in children aged 2–11 years. Desloratadine is administered orally as a standard or rapidly disintegrating tablet (adults and adolescents only) or as a syrup formulation. The recommended once-daily dosage in adult and adolescent patients is 5mg. The dosage of the oral syrup formulation in children aged 2–5 years is 1.25mg once daily and in those aged 6–11 years is 2.5mg once daily. Desloratadine can be administered without regard to the intake of food or grapefruit juice.


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Hinton, Charles Howard (1853–1907)
At the time he was teaching in England, Hinton married Mary Everest Boole, the eldest daughter of George Boole, the founder of mathematical logic. Regrettably, he also married a Maud Wheldon and was tried at the Old Bailey in London for bigamy. After serving a day in prison for the offence, he fled with his (first) family to Japan, where he taught for some years, before taking up a post at Princeton University. There, in 1897, he designed a species of baseball gun which, with the help of gunpowder charges, would shoot out balls at speeds of 40 to 70 miles per hour. It was used by the Princeton Nine for several seasons before being abandoned by the players in fear of their lives.
After a brief spell at the University of Minnesota, Hinton joined the Naval Observatory in Washington, D.C. At the same time, he developed more rigorously his ideas on the fourth dimension and presented his results before the Washington Philosophical Society in 1902. What would prove, Hinton asked, the existence of a real fourth spatial dimension? He offered three possibilities, two of which, involving a specific molecular structure and a particular case of electrical induction, have since been explained by science in more mundane ways. However, Hinton's other case, to do with right and left handedness remains open because there are instances of right and left-handedness in nature, such as the spin of elementary particles, to which his example could be applied. In any event, Hinton's final assessment that we can only regard a four-dimensional space as possible if three-dimensional mechanics fails to explain known physical phenomena still rings true today.
Related entry• Boole (Stott), Alicia
Related category• MATHEMATICIANS
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Hot Water Vent
I need to install vent piping on gas water heater of home that was recently purchased. It is missing and fumes are currently going into the attic. There is a hole in the roof for the vent but my concern is as follows.
I have seen a lot of information on how to properly install with the exception of how to keep the roof (wood decking and shingles) from getting to hot from contact with the pipe and possibly catching fire. Should this be a concern or is there a way of doing the job correctly. The pipe feels VERY HOT to the touch.
Your dumping CO2 into the whole house.
In the areas I have worked this installation would require a permit and inspection due to the life safety issues. not only must there be an exhaust vent for products of combustion, but fresh air intake must be provided. if not then you run the risk of producing carbon monoxide (CO) which is an odorless, colorless, tasteless toxic gas which is slightly lighter than air. it is a product of incomplete combustion.
Separation of combustibles from the vent depends on the type of venting system used. Check with the manufacturer's specifications.
I would recommend contacting your building department and inquire about requirements. Also I would consider hiring a professional to perform the installation due to the liability.
just my humble thoughts ...
Good luck!
Your water heater vent should be b-vent (double wall pipe) which requires 1" separation from combustibles. Single wall pipe (c-vent) requires 6" separation, but can only be used as a vent connector, and some inspectors won't allow it at all. Turn off your water heater until you have it properly vented out the roof, as venting to an attic can cause down drafting of the exhaust, where Carbon Monoxide (CO) can enter your living space. There are different manufacturers of b vent, and they aren't always able to be connected together, so make sure you buy the same brand, or one that is compatible. You'll also need an approved termination, which has to be above the roof a certain distance, and to size it properly. If you need help sizing it, just ask. Sometimes the supplier will help you with this.
Edit: the above poster suggested you hire a pro to do this, and I completely agree. But, seeing as this is a DIY site, I'd rather help you avoid potentially life threatening mistakes if you decide to do it yourself. This is a task that could be harmful to you and others.
do the smart thing and hire a professional.
Thank you HVAC BENNY for your help. The information in your reply is what I was wanting to know.
Even when hiring a "professional" I like to be educated on how the repairs should be made. I have learned the hard way as I am sure many people have that those hired to do a job do not always do it correctly, even if they have the skills and training to do so. Trust but verify is a good rule to follow in my book.
Thanks to every one for the replies, I take them all seriously and will find a pro to do the job and also have a good idea if it is done the right way.
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For about 15 years the NHL has been doing everything it can to gain a larger American fan base. It moved two Canadian teams to the U.S. and rapidly expanded from 21 teams to 30 teams with the main purpose of bringing hockey to the U.S. south and becoming more of a national sport. There are now teams in Atlanta, Carolina, Miami, Tampa, Nashville, Dallas, Phoenix, Anaheim and San Jose and aside from maybe Dallas and San Jose, who have had some success, all have been relative failures in attracting significant numbers of new fans. The NHL has utilized glowing pucks, changed rules, went to 4-on-4 overtime hockey, brought in the shootout, cracked down on fighting, cracked down on hooking, cracked down on obstruction, cracked down on hooking again, put regular season and playoff games on in the afternoon, cracked down on hooking and obstruction again, shut down the league for a full season so those new small market teams in the U.S. can better compete financially, and are now even talking about bringing in crazy rounded bubble nets all in the hopes of building a bigger American audience. But Instead of generating a bigger American audience TV coverage has been demoted from the all sports network ESPN, to Versus which has limited availability across much of the country. On top of that NBC pays nothing to broadcast a handful of regular season and playoff games, the TV ratings are dismal, and the few fans that do exist and want to watch hockey get shafted when NBC decides not to show overtime of a semi-finals series clinching game so it can show an hour of pre-horse race coverage.
It is time for the NHL owners to realize that Gary Bettman's master plan of 'if you expand, they will watch' has not worked, is not working, and will not likely ever work. It is time to realize that the NHL has a better hope of growing their fan base in cities like Boston, Chicago, St. Louis, Los Angeles, and even Columbus or in a new market like Portland or Seattle than in Nashville, Miami, Carolina and Phoenix. You can have a Stanley Cup winning team in Carolina or one of the best, most entertaining teams to watch in Nashville but the new fans they generate pales in comparison to the new fan interest that has been generated in Buffalo now that a quality, stable franchise exists or in Pittsburgh now that that franchise is getting better on the ice and looking more stable off the ice. If Buffalo and Pittsburgh can generate huge new fan interest in those smaller American cities, just imagine how many new fans could be created if Chicago or Boston got a better product on the ice or started marketing their franchises better. The sooner the NHL begins to realize that the future of the NHL in the U.S. is in Boston and Chicago and St. Louis and not in Miami or Nashville or Phoenix the better.
The NHL needs to understand that there is nothing wrong with being a regional (i.e. northern U.S., Canada) sport, and you can even get national TV deals when the majority of your audience is regional, and then grow from there. NASCAR is a perfect example. For the most part it is a regional sport with the majority of their events in the south and with the majority of their fans in the south, but lat time I checked they have some pretty good TV contracts and are now in the process of expanding their region. The NHL is trying to do it the other way around and it is failing miserably. There is no reason why if you gained enough interest in New York, Philadelphia, Boston, Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis, Colorado, San Jose, Los Angeles, Dallas, Minnesota, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Buffalo and maybe even a new market like Seattle that one of the major networks would be interested in broadcasting hockey. No offence to Nashville or North Carolina but these aren't exactly major TV markets when compared to New York, Philadelphia, Boston, Detroit, or Chicago. Just increasing interest 10% in each of those cities will do far more good than doubling or tripling the interest in Nashville. But unfortunately through the NHL's misguided vision NHL in Chicago has been all but destroyed, Boston seems to be following the same path, and even Detroit is starting to have trouble selling out playoff games. It is time the NHL changed course and started focusing on promoting the game in traditional hockey markets and getting rid of the gimmickry used to promote the game to non-fans who aren't really interested in being fans.
Edit: Dan Wetzel has a similar story about the NHL possibily making changes to playoff OT rules against the interest of the traditional hockey fan.


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No, I don't tell people I'm carrying when I enter their home.
This is a discussion on Do you tell or not tell when entering other peoples home while carrying? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by 1MoreGoodGuy Children going through someone else's personal items is a problem. Leaving your firearm unattended and accessible to children is an even ...
The 9mm only kills your body... but the 45? That kills your soul.
No, I don't tell people I'm carrying when I enter their home.
My daughter is almost 11 and she and my son have been brought up according to Christian beliefs & Biblical instruction. Both have been saved by the grace of God and have a great respect for other people. My son & daughter both has been around other kids that haven't been taught to respect & honor their parents. But, if/when these kids begin doing things they shouldn't, my kids either come home or call us to come get them.
The 9mm only kills your body... but the 45? That kills your soul.
Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon at large.
Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth
To add to the weapons around children, when I have friends that have children come over, I make sure all my firearms are secured in my room in case they get in there without anyone knowing. If I go over there that have kids, it stays on my person holstered.
Always Carry, Never Tell. Stay Safe.
.45 ACP, .40 S&W, .380 ACP, .357 Mag, .22LR, 5.56
arkansas state law says i have to. i cant tell you the last time i was in someone elses house.
Glock 19 in a Crossbreed supertuck EDC
Ruger LCP W/ CT "the go anywhere gun" EDC
"ALWAYS carry!NEVERtell!" Thumper
Wow. I'm glad some of you people's kids are so well behaved. We have a 13 month old. I'm not ashamed to admit that she wouldn't hesitate to get into any purse or other luggage someone brings in. We stop her immediately of course, but I still wouldn't be happy if someone brought in a bag with a firearm floating around in it and just laid it on the floor or something.
That said, I carry my gun in an IWB holster, concealed. Sorry for the crude analogy, but I carry something else into people's homes and unless I'm there to use it, it's also going to stay in my pants. I don't need to mention to them that it's there, even though they'd probably be offended if they saw it.
Unless they ask, it doesn't need to be mentioned. Of course my friends know me, and would expect me to have a firearm.
Your kid will not make his or her way to my firearm, period.
"I'm set up to play a game right now. However, I doubt most people would want to get into a gun fight with me."
Rob Leatham
Always carry never tell
I would rather live my life as if there is a God,
And die to find out there isn't, than live my life
As if there isn't, and die to find out there is.
God Bless
I've been through this also and I find keeping my concealment secret is the best policy. Even my brother and family hang around me for days at a time and never realize I am carrying. I just have safety rules I follow and more strict awareness when kids are around. I refrain from wrestling with kids, laying down or getting in positions that could dislodge my gun or point the muzzle. Excellent topic and responses.
I sometimes wonder why my "anti" family would think if they ever knew that I CC during the holiday visits.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. ~Burke, Edmund
Proud owner of a G35. And yes I carry it concealed.
I think we had a similar thread a couple of years ago. "CCW'ing in another's residence"
My opinion has not changed. I find it hard to believe that, as a group, we are so concerned with personal safety that we won't even go to the corner store to get milk without being equipped with lethal force. Yet, we are willing to let others in to our home with firearms that are not under our direct control? Not me...I want to be informed before anyone enters my home with a firearm.
Honor is self-esteem made visible in action. - Ayn Rand
Having lived most of my adult life on a military installation and living in and around military carrying much bigger things than allowed in civilian homes, 99% of the time never disturbed me. They are trained professionals. The only time it did was while we were under Threatcon Delta. I have lived around the world supporting my active duty spouse and also worked on a Marine camp. What an awesome bunch of professionals, it was my honor and pleasure to work with. Yes, they are trained to kill. Did I worry? Was I afraid? Nope. I thank God for them. You are making assumptions about me and my kids, based on my question and opinion. I DO know how valuable the 2nd A. is and freedom of speech! My husband fought for that right! Having lived overseas and in countries that do not allow personal handguns, I treasure my rights even more so than the average American. I saw what happened in Cumbria, England (2010) where an armed lunatic with a shotgun went around driving and shooting his own brother and innocent countrymen for HOURS because their police are not armed and did not have any weapons or trained personnel available to immediately stop him.
What does worry me, is Joe Blow civilian or Joanne, coming into my home without respect for my family's safety. I don't think it is unreasonable having experienced someone's irresponsibility, to expect secure responsible carrying in MY HOME... A gun free zone sign, is not necessary because my friends respect me, as I respect them. I think too many use the word "friend" too loosely. If you are not my friend, you are a trespasser. If I welcome you into my home, I will ask you if you have secured your weapon, if you are offended by that, you are not the type I would associate with in the first place. And I'm not afraid to ask you not to wear shoes in my house either.


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Connecticut Auto Insurance Laws and Regulations
This article explains key Connecticut auto insurance laws, and how those laws affect both insurance claims and car accident lawsuits filed in Connecticut.
This article explains key Connecticut auto insurance laws, and how those laws affect both insurance claims and car accident lawsuits filed in Connecticut. (If you're looking for more information on car accident cases in Connecticut, see our companion article Car Accident Laws in Connecticut).
Connecticut is a "Fault" Insurance State
Like most U.S. states, Connecticut follows a fault-based insurance system when it comes to who is on the financial hook to compensate for losses stemming from a car accident. In a "fault" state like Connecticut, drivers, passengers, or pedestrians involved in a car accident may:
- file a claim with their own insurance company (which will then pursue reimbursement from the at-fault and/or his or her insurance carrier)
- file a claim directly with the at-fault driver's insurance company (called a "third party claim"), or
- go to court and file a personal injury lawsuit against the at-fault driver.
Not all states follow "fault" car insurance rules. About a dozen states (including Connecticut's neighbor Massachusetts) follow a "no-fault" system, which relies more heavily on insurance to cover losses associated with car accidents, regardless of who was at fault for the incident. More information about no-fault insurance can be found at No-Fault Car Insurance and State Laws.
Minimum Car Insurance Requirements in Connecticut
Connecticut auto insurance policies must offer, at a minimum, the following benefits and coverage amounts:
- $20,000 per person if only one person is injured or killed in an accident
- $40,000 per accident if more than one person is injured or killed
- $10,000 per accident to cover property damage costs, and
- $20,000 per person and $40,000 per accident in uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage.
When these minimum coverage amounts are purchased, these numbers represent the total amount the insurance company will pay for injuries or property damage (not including damage to your own vehicle) in a crash. Connecticut drivers can purchase insurance with higher limits and with other types of coverage -- such as coverage to repair or replace a damaged vehicle, but this extra insurance is not required.
Proving "Financial Responsibility" in Connecticut
Most Connecticut drivers meet the state's "financial responsibility" requirement by purchasing an auto insurance policy. The insurer transmits proof of financial responsibility to the Connecticut Department of Motor Vehicles when the policy is purchased. However, drivers who do not want to buy an insurance policy in Connecticut can meet the "financial responsibility" requirement in other ways. This process, known as "self-insuring," requires the driver to submit the following information to the Commissioner of Insurance:
- evidence that the self-insuring person or company is able to undertake all the same legal duties as an insurer,
- evidence that all claims can be handled appropriately, quickly, and according to law, and
- evidence that financial arrangements have been made to ensure that funds will be available if the driver gets into an accident.
Uninured/Underinsured Motorist Coverage in CT
In addition to bodily injury liability (BI) benefits of $20,000 per person or $40,000 per accident, Connecticut requires drivers to carry these same limits in uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage. This coverage kicks in to protect you if you're injured in a car accident with an at-fault driver who carries no insurance whatsoever, or whose policy limits don't cover your losses. Uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage is not required for property damage, but Connecticut drivers may choose to purchase this coverage.
Connecticut drivers also have the option of purchasing Underinsured Motorist Conversion Coverage, which provides protection against the kinds of financial gaps that can occur under standard underinsured motorist coverage policies.
More Information on Car Insurance in Connecticut
The Connecticut Insurance Department provides information about auto insurance products on its official website. Also, the Connecticut Attorney General's Office provides an overview of auto insurance information in Connecticut.
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Storytelling, Vulnerability and a Pivotal Moment in My Creative Life
A couple of weeks ago I was flicking through my book collection; it was time to trim it down some. I didn't have a huge amount of books but it was more than one box, and and I wanted no more than a box. I was also looking forward to[Read more]