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US skating program rose from ashes of '61 crash
Amid the twisted metal and smoldering rubble of Sabena Flight 548 was a copy of the latest edition of Sports Illustrated, its edges charred to tattered flakes.
Still clearly visible on the cover, though, was Laurence Owen, a 16-year-old with a pixie cut and a future as bright as her red skating dress. A year after finishing sixth at the 1960 Olympics, she had just won her first U.S. title and was a favorite for the upcoming world championships, causing SI to declare her "America's most exciting girl skater."
That promise was cut short on Feb. 15, 1961, when she and the rest of the U.S. team were killed in a plane crash while on their way to the world championships in Prague. Eighteen skaters, six coaches, and 10 judges, officials and family members died a few miles short of the Brussels airport, along with the other 27 passengers and crew of 11.
"Can you imagine what would happen to a sport when the entire team and coaches for that team and some of the officials all died at the same time?" said Patricia St. Peter, current president of U.S. Figure Skating. "Literally, this organization was starting over."
From the wreckage of that crash, however, came the seeds of renewal.
Whether it was a young Peggy Fleming getting money for a new pair of skates from the Memorial Fund, established in honor of those killed, or Evan Lysacek and Michelle Kwan absorbing the lessons Frank Carroll had been taught by his coach, Maribel Vinson Owen, every moment of glory U.S. figure skating has had in the last 50 years can be traced to that tragedy in Belgium.
"They were the springboard for everyone that came after them," 1984 Olympic champion Scott Hamilton says in "Rise," a documentary honoring the crash victims that will be shown Thursday night at more than 500 theaters nationwide. "All of us who came after represent their promise, their dream."
To commemorate the anniversary of the crash, all 34 members of the U.S. delegation were inducted into U.S. Figure Skating's Hall of Fame at the national championships last month. U.S. Figure Skating also is hosting a red-carpet screening of "Rise" on Thursday night in New York City. Fleming, Hamilton and Lysacek will be joined by fellow Olympic champions Dorothy Hamill and Brian Boitano, and interviews and a special performance by Lysacek will be broadcast to the other theaters showing "Rise."
Money raised from ticket sales around the country will go to the Memorial Fund, as will a portion of the proceeds from "Indelible Tracings," Patty Bushman's book on the '61 team.
"I think it's great for kids to learn a little bit more of the history of some of the great people that went before them," Carroll said. "So much of people's lives were lost with (the crash). Not just the people that were killed, but I'm talking about the ones that were left behind. How much we missed them all, what was taken from us."
The years after World War II were a heady time for U.S. skating. American men won every world and Olympic title from 1948 through the Squaw Valley Games in 1960, and the U.S. swept the podium at the 1956 Olympics and the 1952, '55 and '56 world championships. Tenley Albright became the first American woman to win the world title in 1953, and she and Carol Heiss then won six straight world titles from 1955 to 1960. Albright won Olympic gold in 1956, followed by Heiss four years later.
Karol and Peter Kennedy gave the U.S. its first world title in pairs in 1950, and were Olympic silver medalists two years later. Nancy and Ron Ludington were bronze medalists at the 1959 worlds and 1960 Olympics. American ice dancers medaled at all but two world championships between 1952 and 1959.
Though Heiss, David Jenkins and the Ludingtons moved on after Squaw Valley, there was so much young talent behind them that the medals streak showed no signs of ending. In a picture taken shortly before takeoff, the members of the 1961 world team brimmed with confidence.
The team of teenagers and 20-somethings came from all over the U.S. Some were single, others married with small children. For some, the trip was a family affair. Owen and her older sister, Maribel Y., a pairs skater, were coached by their mother, Maribel Vinson Owen, who won nine U.S. titles to set a record matched only by Kwan. Pairs skaters Ila Ray and Ray Hadley Jr., were coached by their mother, Linda.
And some were on the plane sheerly by chance. Douglas Ramsay had finished fourth at nationals, but bronze medalist Tim Brown got sick and couldn't go to worlds. Sharon Westerfeld filled in as little sister Stephanie's chaperone because their mother didn't want to make Stephanie nervous.
The plane crashed into a marshy field on its approach to Zaventem Airport in Brussels. The exact cause of the crash was never determined.
"I was 12, and it's like watching a bad movie. It's not real," said Fleming, whose mother told her about the crash as she got ready for school. "It took a lot of time for it to sink in."
Added Carroll, "Of course it was such a shock and horrible. The sadness for me was not then. It was not at the moment of the crash. Or even that year. It was years later when I didn't have (Vinson Owen) to lean on. ... She was a mentor about what to do with your life, who you'd go and ask about decisions you're trying to make as you're growing up and becoming an adult. Somebody who's kind of a hero in your eyes, and then they're gone."
The impact of the crash was both immediate and far-reaching. Eight days after the crash, U.S. Figure Skating established the Memorial Fund. Over the last 50 years, it has given out more than $10 million in skating and academic scholarships to everyone from Fleming to reigning Olympic and world silver medalists Meryl Davis and Charlie White.
The world championships were canceled that year in sympathy for the Americans. International coaches, including Carlo Fassi and John Nicks, moved to the United States to help rebuild the U.S. program.
Five years later, Fleming won the first of three straight world titles. She would win the gold medal at the 1968 Olympics, while three-time U.S. men's champion Tim Wood claimed a silver medal.
"I think I achieved things faster than I would have if the crash hadn't happened because there was so much talent on that plane," Fleming said. "Who knows what would have happened? But my career wouldn't have happened so quickly."
For Carroll, it meant a different career entirely.
He was a successful junior skater under Vinson Owen, and her influence on him — on and off the ice — remains strong to this day.
"Through both of them, I became a world champion," Kwan says in "Rise." "I know the things that Maribel Vinson Owen taught Frank, he taught me."
But Vinson Owen had wanted Carroll to go to law school, and was furious when she learned he'd signed a contract with the Ice Follies. One year, she told him, and Carroll was to go back to school. He agreed, only to have Vinson Owen die a few months later.
Carroll never did make it to law school, becoming a coach in 1964. His emphasis on solid technique and eye for artistry have made him the pre-eminent coach in the United States, guiding Linda Fratianne, Tim Goebel, Kwan, Lysacek and others to seven world titles, four Olympic medals and more than a dozen U.S. titles.
When Lysacek won the gold medal in Vancouver last winter, Carroll finally had an Olympic champion.
"It was such a special moment for me to present Frank with the coach's medal," Lysacek said.
A moment that might not have happened if not for that crash in 1961.
"Hope rose out of the ashes of the crash," Carroll says in "Rise." "We all hoped we could renew or do something better. And I think we did."
Copyright 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


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It would be my Ruger Speed Six in .357
This is a discussion on If you could only keep one handgun.. within the General Firearm Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; My favorite combat gun is my USP45. However, my Ruger GP100 in .357mag is much more versatile. Being able to shoot soft .38s all the ...
My favorite combat gun is my USP45. However, my Ruger GP100 in .357mag is much more versatile. Being able to shoot soft .38s all the way up to high-power .357s makes it the keeper. Not to mention the reliability and lack of moving parts.
It would be my Ruger Speed Six in .357
A real man loves his wife, and places his family as the most important thing in life. Nothing has brought me more peace and content in life than simply being a good husband and father.
One handgun?...no problem, it would be my 6" bright stainless Colt Python...
One of these two:
Beretta 92FS very rare edition (only 100 made), high polished stainless steel, gold etching on the slide and barrel and factory installed match-grade trigger. I added the Beretta Walnut Grips.
Beretta Px4 Storm (full size)
Both are in 9mm and for home defense and SHTF, 9mm is a very common round and will do the job nicely.
It is to be observed that Right of Self-Defence, arises directly and immediately from the Care of our own Preservation, which Nature recommends to every one. . . , and that this right is so primary, that it cannot be denied on the basis that it is not "expressly set forth.
--- Hugo Grotius
G30SF. It will do everything I want it to do. It's compact for concealed carry. It holds 10 round of .45ACP which is remarkable for it's size. It will take 13 round G21 mags for even more capacity. It shoots straight. It shoots very softly. Has much less recoil feel than my 5" 1911. It fits my hand exceptionally well. It's extraordinarily simple (as are all Glocks). And.... it's my first gun ever. I'm attached to it... literally. It's in my Galco King tuk at 4:00 as I type this.
I will also carry a G19 quite often. Usually more often than my G30SF. My G19 is a very, very close second. My G30SF wins because of my emotional attachment to it, which is why I carry it less frequently. I do as a whole prefer the .45ACP over 9mm, so that gives the edge to my G30SF as well. However, I shoot 9mm very well (only marginally better than .45ACP, hardly a difference), and the edge in capacity is a huge plus. Still doesn't bump my G30SF from being my #1.
Really.... give me any Glock, and I'd be happy. Or any HK or M&P. I sold my HK recently to fund an M&P. I need to get back into an HK someday.
It would be a tough call between the CZ75 SP-01 and Glock 19....but I'd keep my CZ.
Have to say I would keep my 38 special short barrel if I could only keep one. Ammo is easy to find and 1,000's of rounds have gone through this bad boy with no problems at all.
Our House Is Protected By The Good Lord And A gun. You Might Meet Both Of Them If You Show Up Inside My House Uninvited.
My Smith and Wesson k frame stainless steel model 65 357 mag. in round butt with a 3 inch barrel.
My 1911 officers model. I can carry it, and its in the nightstand as my home defense gun.
Full size HK USP 45. Unless I could choose something I'd like someday, which would be a Guncrafters 1911.
Last edited by Win94ae; September 2nd, 2012 at 01:11 AM. Reason: added a picture

subset: commoncrawl


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Krave Jerky Sampler 10-Pack
$24.99 $̶4̶0̶.̶0̶0̶ 38% off List Price
Krave Smoky Grilled Teriyaki Gourmet Pork Jerky, 1.5 oz. 3-Pack
Krave Basil Citrus Gourmet Turkey Jerky, 1.5 oz. 3-Pack
Krave Chili Lime Gourmet Beef Jerky, 1.5 oz. 2-Pack
Krave Sweet Honey Chipotle Gourmet Beef Jerky, 1.5 oz. 2-Pack
This is one of those love it or hate it products....and I hated it. Over seasoned and over sweetened.
If this didn't contain the Teriyaki pork, I'd go for it. That variety is overly sweet, almost like candied jerky. I'd even consider buying it if there were fewer packs of the Teriyaki pork, but three of them? No, thank you.
The rest of the flavors are very, very good.
Not understanding what meat jerkey has to do with wine?
I got to sample some of these last year at the Trail Days festival in Damascus and thought they were ok. Nothing spectacular, imo.
true559 wrote:This is one of those love it or hate it products....and I hated it. Over seasoned and over sweetened.
I didn't hate it but I definitely won't buy it again.
I just bought some of this at the grocery store for the first time 3 days ago. I bought the Black Cherry - delicious and the one with basil - meh. If I remember correctly it was either $3.99 or $4.99 a bag. Either way, this is a great price if you like it. If this were all the cherry and pork teriyaki, I'd buy it.
I really don't understand how people can eat this crap.
It's overspiced to the point of being inedible - and this is coming from someone who enjoys extra-spicy Szechuan and Thai cuisine. Krave jerky is inedible. The only bag I managed to finish was the Sweet Chipotle, and that was so sugary, sticky, and gross that it literally made me ill.
agreed with all above, only buy this if you enjoy dipping your jerky in sugar and melted jolly ranchers...
rschonfe wrote:Not understanding what meat jerkey has to do with wine?
It's for the classy gents
It's all in the pairing. My vote is for Bourgeois Pig Pinot Noir, a "snobbishly fine wine".


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Volunteer Orientation Day
God's Angel for Single Parents (GASP) Ministries Inc.
Saturday, November 23, 2013 from 10:00 AM to 12:00 PM (EST)
Who's Going
San Francisco, California
London, United Kingdom
Florence, Italy
Event Details
Want to help out or just need volunteer hours? Then come to Volunteer Oreintation Day! Come to ask questions, meet other volunteers and found out more about the organization and what you can do to help. We encourage you to come and ask the President of the organization any questions or concerns you have about the company or about the volunteer work in general.
Light refreshments will be served. Look forward to meeting you soon!
When & Where
Norcross Human Service Center
5030 Georgia Belle Ct
Saturday, November 23, 2013 from 10:00 AM to 12:00 PM (EST)
Add to my calendar
God's Angel for Single Parents (GASP) Ministries Inc.
GASP is a nonprofit organization dedicated to empowering, informing, and educating single parents to live a better life. Feel free to check out our website www.gaspministries.org and join a worthy cause!


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good for you... carrying one in the pipe is 99.9% your best bet
This is a discussion on I finally joined the +1 carry club within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Since I got my permit about 2 months ago, I have been carrying a pf-9 every day, ever since israeli style. I just had a ...
Since I got my permit about 2 months ago, I have been carrying a pf-9 every day, ever since israeli style. I just had a fear of carrying +1, not because I was worried about pulling the trigger (I am very confident in my safe gun handling), but I was just paranoid about mechanical failure of the gun, or somehow the round igniting without the primer being struck. I knew all the reasons why I should carry +1 I just couldn't seem to get over my fears. After seeing the video of the store keeper shot and killed fumbling trying to rack his gun, it really got me to thinking of the possibility of screwing up racking the slide under stress...after reading all the posts on here and ktog.org with all the reasons you should have one in the pipe, I loaded one in the pipe and went about my day...I will admit for the first hour or so I was nervous...but after getting over my fears I will now carry +1 all the time...thanks to everyone whos comments may have helped me get over my issue.
good for you... carrying one in the pipe is 99.9% your best bet
NRA Certified Rifle/Pistol Instructor
Accuracy ALWAYS WINS! So carry what you can hit with.
If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics stink.
Repetitive practice will overcome your apprehension. However, I am NOT a fan of the Israeli style. I carry a 1911 ready to go. If I need it, the last thing I need to contend with is more mechanical processes. There's just too much at stake!
BE PREPARED - Noah didn't build the Ark when it was raining!
Si vis pacem, para bellum
NRA Life Member
It's only "+1" if you top off the magazine after chambering a cartridge.
If you just have one in the chamber and are short a cartridge in the mag it's CONDITION 1.
Not trying to be a jerk, but I'm seeing a surge in this being used incorrectly, personally I blame the twits on YouTube.
What is Israeli style style? No holster?
It is utterly illogical to believe that passing laws to reduce gun violence will be successful when those who are commiting the gun violence do not obey the law.
Congratulations. You are better prepared for defense. Practice, always carry holstered (trigger covered), and use safe gun handling techniques. Stay safe and do not get complacent. Be very consciencious about posessing lethal force and carrying a loaded weapon. It is a huge responsibility. The bullet belongs to you even after it leaves the muzzle. Proper care and precautions in safe gun handling are your best measures. Take care.
Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.
Congrats on your new carry style...you've just saved a second for a potential 2 second decision.
Proverbs 27:12 says: The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
Your decision some day could very well make the difference.........
Congrats on your decision.... It could save your life...
"Texas can make it without the United States, but the United States can't make it without Texas!".... Sam Houston
Retired LEO
Firearms Instructor
NRA Life Member
Thanks. Just wanted to be sure I understood it properly.
Could be worse,could be condition 5 "Barney" style gun empty bullet in pocket
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .


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Silver Spread Your Wings Bracelet
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If you require a longer length then please just request specified length when ordering.
This item is made to order and will take approximately 1- 3 day before its ready to send to you.
If you need your order urgently please let us know the date you need it by so we can make sure its ready in time!
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Exchange or full refund within 14days. Please email returns@
Please visit our Delivery and Returns page for more information.


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Read The Alvin York Diary - CLICK HERE:unitedsta:usaribbon:unitedsta
Printable View
Read The Alvin York Diary - CLICK HERE:unitedsta:usaribbon:unitedsta
So...What do you all folks think of Sgt. Alvin York?
I think he absolutely kicks it! A True American hero!
"York's role as hero went beyond his exploit in the Argonne and continues to both inspire and confound. On October 8, 1918, Corporal Alvin C. York and sixteen other soldiers under the command of Sergeant Bernard Early were dispatched before sunrise to take command of the Decauville railroad behind Hill 223 in the Chatel-Chehery sector of the Meuse-Argonne sector. The seventeen men, due to a misreading of their map (which was in French not English) mistakenly wound up behind enemy lines. A brief fire fight ensued which resulted in the confusion and the unexpected surrender of a superior German force to the seventeen soldiers. Once the Germans realized that the American contingent was limited, machine gunners on the hill overlooking the scene turned the gun away from the front and toward their own troops. After ordering the German soldiers to lie down, the machine gun opened fire resulting in the deaths of nine Americans, including York's best friend in the outfit, Murray Savage. Sergeant Early received seventeen bullet wounds and turned the command over to corporals Harry Parsons and William Cutting, who ordered York to silence the machine gun. York was successful and when all was said and done, nine men had captured 132 prisoners."
MORE ABOUT Sgt. Alvin York
wonder when the remake of that movie will come out .. he was the man wasnt he
He was the man!!
It's amazing how FEW decent quality photographs of Sgt. Alvin York there are on the web.
Only a pitiful handful of very small & poor quality photos. That's a shame.
I was looking for a decently sized photograph of him in uniform.
Nada. No Luck.
Thanks for the link, QKShooter!
For a "born-again pacifist", Sgt. York was a warrior deluxe.
I just hope that if they ever remake the movie, they get the part about the 1911 Colt right this time....P.O.'s me every time I see Gary Cooper use a captured Luger to stop the charging squad of Germans :cool:
I have a book with a story about Alvin York...the book is titled "America, The Men and Their Guns That Made Her Great" and the story is titled "Alvin York - Citizen Soldier" by Garry James. I took this picture of one of the photos in it...hope it isn't too shaky!
Team American
THANKS!...for that photo. That's MUCH better! I just saved it to my 'puter
Heck...I searched the web for two hours looking for a photo about that size of him in uniform. Need the pic for my nephew.
He was quite a guy!! Wish we had more like him today.
Amen. We do have some heros like that right now in Iraq and Afghanistan.
QKShooter, here is a better capture of that photo....was able to use the sunlight this morning :biggrin:
The photo caption notes that he is wearing both Medal of Honor and the French "Croix de Guerre" with palm. (proof that once-upon-a-time the French could actually appreciate American bravery and skill :smile: )
Also...I like your .45 picture frame in the first photo on this thread :hand9:
I REALLY appreciate that photo. Owe ya one! Absolutely perfect. I saved it and I already Sepia Toned it & framed it. It's going to work out amazingly well!
QK Thanks as always for the history reminder. My Great Grandfather was a drill sargent in that war. I would love to think he trained him.


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|The Federal Reserve Bank of New York offers a comprehensive benefits package. Our health, financial and lifestyle benefits are competitive with those of top employers across the country.
In addition to health and financial benefits, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York provides additional resources to help employees balance their personal and professional goals.
Vacation and Paid Holiday Time
Flexible Work Arrangements
Tuition Assistance
Back-Up Dependent Care
Maternity, Paternity and Adoption Leave
Adoption Assistance
Employee Assistance Program
Business Casual Attire


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Consumer Reports last week announced the results of its annual survey of driving annoyances.
In January, 2012, the American organization that tests and rates everything from toasters to SUVs called 895 drivers and asked what bugged them. The result was a "Top 20" compilation of the most irksome driving habits. The list was not surprising. The number one crappy driving habit was texting behind the wheel following by able-bodied folks using handicapped spots and tailgaters in third place.
As the world's foremost authority on automotive stupidity, I'm always on the lookout for new strains of aberrant driving behaviour. I was a little disappointed to see some of our latest forms of car-related folly absent from Consumer Reports shame-based lexicon. I was particularly dismayed to find "Mr. Makespace" absent.
Mr. Makespace is a driver who has evolved out of the ever-dwindling number of parking spaces available in our lots. It's a creeping form of bad driving borne out of a combination of necessity and narcissism. Mr. Makespace makes his appearance during peak times when the crowds are out. He wants to go to the mall or the grocery store, but he feels that it is unfair that all the nearest and dearest spaces are occupied. He's not so much of an egomaniac that he'd simply double park in front of a fire exit. He's afraid if he parks in a handicapped spot, he'll be tarred and feathered. Still, the idea of parking a 21-second walk from his destination drives him crazy.
So, Mr. Makespace puts on his thinking cap…
Greed, laziness and entitlement course through his blood stream and his brain creaks along. Suddenly, a solution appears: "What if I simply park next to a legitimate space?" he thinks. "If I have at least one parking stripe beside my car that makes it okay, right?"
So, Mr. Makespace parks his car next to the last space in a row of spots and blocks half the lane. We all know that a parking space exists between two lines, but to Mr. Makespace this is simply semantics. Any line will do. He's parked next to a line and that makes it okay. It's illegal parking with an asterisk: all the benefits with half the guilt. He's just invented the diet soda of illegal parking.
Besides, he's not hurting anyone right?
Not quite. Aside from outraging all right-minded people, he's creating a host of dangers. Believe it or not, parking lots are planned. They're designed (ideally) to allow traffic to flow and for pedestrians to be safe. That's the plan but when you add people it gets freaky. They forget that these are hunks of rolling steel zipping around delicate fleshy bodies.
It's bad enough when people are obeying the rules and basic common sense but when Mr. Makespace decides to create a parking space where one was never meant to exist he creates traffic bottlenecks. Drivers must make close turns in cramped conditions. Worse, he forces pedestrians to walk out from behind parked cars (never a good idea).
We don't need to make it any more difficult for parking lot pedestrians. Many of these folks stroll blissfully around, utterly unaware of the possible harm around them – like the acid-freak Lance in the Do Lung Bridge scene from Apocalypse Now. It's a strange tactic given that most drivers' given procedure when leaving a parking space is: a) check hair b) put car in reverse c) slam on gas d) oh yeah, check rear-view.
A few years ago, Mr. Makespace was a relatively rare creature but now he's become a frequent fixture in parking lots. I've taken to documenting this breed and am collecting a "best of the worst" gallery. Take the accompanying photograph as a fine example. Here's a Makespace on steroids. He's not only "making a space" by positioning his car next to a single line, he's parking on a double-hash-marked no parking space. Most drivers know that when they paint a dozen yellow lines inside a yellow box it means "no parking at any time." To this Makespace, however, it means "place car here."
The psychology behind it is remarkable. What the Makespace does is no more legal than parking your car in the middle of the road. Just because Mr. Makespace's vehicle borders a parking stripe doesn't mitigate his bad parking. It's still wrong yet somehow his dim wits find salvation in the thin yellow line.
It would be easy enough to get rid of Mr. Makespace. All we'd have to do is enforce parking rules. I can tell you one photograph I don't have: a picture of a Makespace having his car towed away. Sure, malls and shopping centres post signs claiming they'll tow offenders but do they ever do it? Nope. Rarely. And so Mr. Makespace and his ilk slowly take over, like zebra mussels infesting a lake or killer dragon fish swimming in from Michigan.
And the rest sit idly by. Maybe we need a "Save our Lots" campaign?
Follow Andrew Clark on Twitter: @aclarkcomedyReport Typo/Error
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Find us at the National Retail Federation Big Show in NYC next week
January 8th, 2010 | Published in Google Earth
Shoppers are increasingly turning to Google.com and Google Maps to find, learn about, map, and get directions to retail locations. We offer several tools that help retail businesses connect with these shoppers, such as Local Business Center to make sure your listings are accurate and contain many relevant details, and embeddable Google Maps to power your online store locator.
That's why several of us from Google will be attending, presenting, and demonstrating products next week at NRF 2010, the National Retail Federation's annual convertion and expo at the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center in New York City. We'll be speaking at a session on Tuesday (January 12) at 11:30am (EXPO Hall, 3D04) called Helping Shoppers Find You.
We'll also have a booth in the Expo Hall (Booth #365) so attendees can chat with us directly about Google Maps and Local Business Center. Any question is fair game! Look for the Google logo on our booth wall and a big map of Manhattan at the floor of the booth. We hope to see you there.


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Plan B
It started as Plan B: Annette Gutierrez and her husband wanted to create a great room in their Hollywood home but didn't have the budget for a remodel. "So we thought, Let's just do it outside!" says Gutierrez. To transform the 3,000-square-foot yard, she created a series of outdoor rooms landscaped almost entirely with potted plants.
Gutierrez may be professionally biased toward containers: She's the co-owner, with Mary Gray, of Potted, a garden-design shop in L.A.'s Atwater Village. But a potted garden also suits her space. Her three dogs can't dig into containers as they would with beds. She also likes the color and sculptural look the vessels add: "The plants are accentuated by the pot they're in rather than just being massed together in the ground."
Another upside to the garden is that it continuously feeds Gutierrez's love of design.
"I get to redecorate over and over," she says. "I just move my pots around a little and I have a whole new yard."


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The WashPost still needs to clean up its Limbaugh ratings mess
Blog ››› ››› ERIC BOEHLERT
Yesterday I raised doubts about the claim in a Howard Kurtz article that Limbaugh's ratings have "nearly doubled" since January. The Post offered no hard evidence to back that up. And as I noted, even Limbaugh himself suggested he has no idea what his ratings are since he first announced in late January that he wanted Obama to fail.
Today, the Post's Paul Farhi writes more about Limbaugh's ratings in an article that only raises more doubts about Kurtz's claim that the talker's numbers have increased two-fold since January.
Specifically, I noted that it's basically impossible for reporters to get solid information about nationwide ratings for syndicated talk show hosts since those numbers are not released publicly.
Farhi confirms my point:
Arbitron, the radio industry's dominant audience-measurement company, has never publicly released a national estimate for Limbaugh, and it says, in effect, that the job is too complicated, expensive and time-consuming to bother with..."There is no economic motivation for any objective third party to do that kind of analysis," says Thom Mocarsky, an Arbitron spokesman.
I also pointed out that even within the world of syndicated talk radio, there aren't any internal, nationwide numbers about Limbaugh's most recent ratings. Meaning, not even Limbaugh's syndicator, Premier Radio, knows if his ratings have doubled since January.
Again, Farhi confirms my point:
What's more, Premiere's figure is based on data from the first three months of 2008, a virtual lifetime ago in the fast-moving radio business.
Bottom line: If the Post has any tangible proof to back up its Friday claim that Limbaugh's ratings have nearly doubled since January, it ought to print it.
UPDATE: In his Friday piece, Kurtz quoted Michael Harrison, editor of Talkers magazine, who suggested Limbaugh's ratings had doubled recently. In today's Post article, here's how Harrison explains coming to that conclusion:
"It's what we're hearing, based on the e-mails, the calls, all the buzz this controversy is generating. We put a little bit of our interpretation on it, added it all up, and that puts you in the ballpark."
That's the information the Post used to announced that Limbaugh's ratings had doubled? Please.
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|Thread Tools
New chat thread! And happy Thanksgiving! I hope this isn't inconsiderate of our Canadians, Happy late Thanksgiving to you all!
A lot of company coming this week but I am beside myself with excitement about seeing our baby in our ultrasound tomorrow! We will be finding out and I can't wait! There are several others with me and I am looking forward to hearing about yours as well!
Just got back from my level II ultrasound. Looks like it is a girl!! They couldn't see any boy parts so..... I know nothing is 100% so I think Ill hang on the the boy clothes and the airplane themed nursery stuff until this kid pops out!
Everything looked good on the U/S. I did not have any of the screening tests and at my age (39) they told me without an amnio (which Im NOT getting) they can't tell me 100% that all is well, but based on the U/S, the odds of any genetic problems are pretty slim (like 1-2%). So overall Im pretty happy and am going to choose to breathe a sigh of relief and enjoy the rest of this pregnancy! Hope everyone has a great holiday :)
If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.
Yay for u/s tomorrow! Mine is at 9:00, and then I have a phone call with a prospective doula in the afternoon. DH is going with me in the a.m., even though he's busy at work--I keep telling him not to (really, because its more inconvenient for me to have to pick him up and drop him off) but I think he wants to see the baby himself. Funny.
A couple of random thoughts--
Anyone making nursing pads? I made some flat ones when I was nursing DD, but I think I'm ready to move up to contoured pads. I need a good tutorial...
How about an online source for RRL tea? I've gotten mine from the local herb store, but its $4.99+5% tax for a box of 24--seems like it should be available cheaper somewhere. And they only accept cash, which I never have. Looking for bags, not loose tea.
I just had the weirdest thing happen. For the past three days I have had the worst bitter taste in my mouth constantly. Everything I ate tasted horrible. Imagine that taste when you drink milk after grapefruit juice. Yumm!! Turns out it was probably Pine Mouth. I made a big batch of pesto with basil from the garden and ate a few pine nuts while I was making it. For unknown reasons some pine nuts cause some people to get pine mouth. Horrible, horrible, horrible. It actually made me sick to my stomach it was so bad.
Now I'm going to have to throw out the whole batch of pesto.
My family = Me + DH plus new babe 5/12 make 3
I buy all my herbs from Mountain Rose in bulk and make my own tea bags or use a handheld strainer. Loose really isn't that hard so you might want to consider it.
I haven't decided if I am going to get an ultrasound. We had to have genetic testing with the IVF so I am not worried about any of that. I think that if there is anything else, we will just deal with it when the time comes. I don't think I really need an ultrasound. Of course I have to talk with the hubby.
My family = Me + DH plus new babe 5/12 make 3
We are leaving for Seattle tomorrow morning for a week-long visit to friends and family out there. While I am looking forward to seeing people, I am not looking forward to the plane ride or traveling with a toddler. DS has never flown and I am worried he will not do well on the trip. Anyone have any advise?
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(4/10), Mom to Connor (7/14/10), Cayleigh (4/20/12), and Chloe (1/7/14)
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. Expecting another
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Late Sept/Early Oct. Living with Factor V Leiden (7/12).
Yay another week! I've been reading up on lactation stuff lately (considering going for an IBCLC in a few years) and I think I have a posterior tongue tie! Not that this matters much for me now, and DD didn't have one, but I'm now somewhat more concerned that impending DS will have one. That said, I know where to get it clipped and to be proactive about this stuff, so whatever. But it could explain my mild lisp....
As for nursing pads - I used all disposables last time and A LOT of them. I really want to use cloth this time but only have read negative reviews about everything out there until I discovered this newish company. They are pricey, but I think I will buy a set. They are a local product for me (made and owned in Colorado) so I feel good supporting them. I could probably make my own but I just don't have time this time of year. I'm already wanting to try my hand at making a few of my own cloth diapers this time. In case anyone wants to check out this product/company:
We are leaving for Seattle tomorrow morning for a week-long visit to friends and family out there. While I am looking forward to seeing people, I am not looking forward to the plane ride or traveling with a toddler. DS has never flown and I am worried he will not do well on the trip. Anyone have any advise?
Stickers and a place to stick them. A coloring book with tons of sticker pages works pretty well. A mini-doodle-pro/magna doodle/whatever they're called these days. They have tiny ones in the christmas gift section of Target. When DD was younger she didn't want to draw, but she liked me to draw and she would "name that animal" or whatever. Extra diapers, just in case you end up stranded on the runway (I know, bad to think, but better to prepare for the worst). Snacks--you can get away with taking a lot through security for young toddler, as long as you put them in the standard pint-size bag.
Good luck!!
ok, some I'm looking for some advice...
first, my daughter has transitioned to her big girl bed this week, and the transition has been seamless. no tears, no fuss. yay! right? i'm actually quite sad everytime i go to bed now because she's not there... is this normal? she's fine in her bed, and i shouldn't feel guilty, right?? I guess i just miss her. i miss the reconnect time since i work during the day. ugh. any words of comfort before i go grab her out of her bed and put her back in mine??? i never thought I'd be the one who wasnt ready for the big girl bed.
and second... I've been having a lot of vaginal pain lately, more internal, like swelling or something, sometimes it's pressure like and other times it's just an achy all over kind of feeling... is this normal with your second pregnancy?? anyone had this before? sorry if it's TMI, but i'm just wondering if this is common??
in better news... i'm super excited about the holiday and I get to see my best friend on Friday for some shopping!! yay!!
I hope you ladies are all having a great Monday!
Married to overworked DH since 2003, happily mama to DD (01/09) and DS (4/12)
chiro- I totally get both of your questions! I am already realizing that I will miss DS when he moves to his own bed. I am not postponing it because of it but I realized that I draw comfort and connection through having him there at night just like he does. He isn't ready yet and we are just making very small steps toward it but while one part of me wants it to hurry so I can get a couple of months in my own bed, the other part is already aware that I will miss him and that it is such a short time that they need us in the really intense needy way!
As far as the vaginal swelling/aching, I have what I think you are describing. I never did with DS but this time it usually seems to correspond with a lot of walking or really prolonged standing. I wasn't sure if it was my pelvic floor? What I do know is that I don't have throbbing, more of an aching. My mw suggested maybe it was vericose veins but I don't have any throbbing. I feel a lot better if I just sit down for about 10 min. Makes me feel better to know someone else feels it! It is annoying but not all the time for me.
sunflower- super interesting! I am also on a very slow track to becoming an IBCLC. My concentration in my master's was lactation and it paid off too bc DS is tongue tied, but not posterior. We didn't get it clipped and I worked a lot to help it stretch and ensure proper nursing. I am not sure how I feel about clipping it this time if this one has tongue tie. We'll see. DH seems to be the tongue tie person, his mom had a lot of trouble breastfeeding both him and his sister and quit really early. Unfortunately, no one was able to help her or knew to look for it.
bela- hope your flight goes well! I am already thinking about our december flight. Justkate suggested some really good ones. For us, it is always about having enough in case you need it and rotating through options of what to do. The stickers though, that will definitely go a long way now, looking forward to that one in december!
Oh and marnica, congrats on the girl! Sounds like the ultrasound was a great relief! Enjoy the holidays and yay for a happy and healthy pregnancy!
Chiro: I totally missed DD when she moved to her own bed. I actually wound up snuggling a pillow for awhile. I was happy she was in her own bed and happy, but I did definitely miss her. Now she never even asks to sleep in our bed.
flavorfull: What's your degree in? I'm a LLL Leader who's increasingly getting interested in the clinical side of things. I'm going to give it a few years before I start doing my IBCLC coursework, but since this is the last baby I know I'll have free time in like 3 years. But I'm not going to get the credential until I know what type of practice/job I want, and I still need to do all the preliminary coursework. I have a while before I'll be ready to sit for the test. In the meantime, I'm really enjoying life in the trenches of the breastfeeding world :)
As for the tongue tie, DD didn't have one thankfully, and I don't know if I do have one, but what I've seen about adult frenulums suggest mine is thicker than usual, and I do have a slight lisp. Mom never breastfed me so it didn't come up there.
Carly - awesome! I actually purchases various bamboo and hemp fabrics to make into doublers, wipes, etc so these would be a snap to make. I just need to buy some PUL.
My family = Me + DH plus new babe 5/12 make 3
chiromama, I missed DD something awful when she started sleeping in her own bed through the night, but it did help DH and me sleep better. Lately she's been going to sleep in our bed, so I get in and cuddle her (against her will) for an hour or so until DH comes to bed, then he puts her in her own bed. Then in the morning she gets back in bed with me for more cuddles. It really is the best of both worlds right now. But I know where you're coming from.
yep, I missed all my girls when they moved into their own beds while at the same time enjoying being able to spread out.
My little baby moved for just over 4 hours last night! Holy wow. I think this one may be like my first and not need a lot of sleep.
I have also had the vaginal pain when I have been walking too much.
bela, let us know how it goes on the plane.
Courtney and Cree, baby made 3, added one more then there were 4, sakes alive, then we had 5, another in the mix now we have 6!
A Momma in love with her Little Women-Jewel Face, Jo Jo Bean, June Bug, and Sweet Coraline.
DS has been in his own bedroom for a while but it is right accross from our room; however, with the new one coming I will need to move him down the hall to DH's room (works 3rd shift and that room only has one window so it is darker). I still need to get it cleaned out, painted and DS's clothes moved. I am hoping to get it done next month as my brother and sister bought him new bedding and accessories for his room and would like to move him after Christmas so he can get use to it before the new baby is born.
I do have a question for you guys. I have a history of depression but have been off of everything since 2007. I didn't have any problems while I was pregnant with DS and my insomnia didn't really kick in until about 32wks, when I was put on modified bedrest for incompetent cervix. I have been so emotional this pregnancy and crying over just about everything. I also am averaging about 4hours of sleep a night. I fall asleep but then get up to pee and my mind just starts racing and I can't get back to sleep. I am not sure how much lunger I can handle this before going insane. I have an appointment with my OB next week (I will be 20wk5d at the appt.) Thursday and I am thinking of asking about starting back on an antidepressant. I know in the past he has told me that Wellbutrin was a safe drug, but I just not sure if I want to take a chance but I also don't know how much more I can take. I am also not sure if it is just because of the pregnancy or if it is delayed grief from the one I lost in May 2011. I still am afraid with every scan that this baby will be dead, even though I feel movement at times. I am just not sure what to do anymore and thought maybe someone would be able to give me some suggestions. I have taken a couple of doses of Benadryl which lets me sleep but I don't want to keep taking it.
Sorry about the sadness I just can't seem to talk to any of my family about this.
Take care everyone and have a Happy Thanksgiving if you celebrate it.
Married to a great DH since 2001; Have a wonderful DS (01/09); Have one little angel in Heaven (05/11 at 7wks); been TTC since 10/09. BFP on 07/31/11 due April 14. Cerclage placed 9/30/11; at 33wks cervix down to 1cm Scott Edward born 03/13/12 at 2:56am at 35wks 2 day.
Remark: By all means go on medication if it helps you. Many anti-depressants are pregnancy safe, and certainly better than you being an emotional wreck. A good friend of mine was on a lower dose of prozac all through pregnancy and breastfeeding and everyone was fine.
Oh my goodness, remark, by all means, get yourself feeling better! Seriously, its nothing to be ashamed of. I've been on and off anti-depressants for YEARS, and am on *gasp* the lowest dose of paxil for this pg. And yes *gasp again* its a Class D now. (Downgraded from a Class C in February 2010 due to a Swedish study that I think was pretty flawed.) But there are anti-depressants that are more recommended--Zoloft, I think, is a good one. Wellbutrin made me pee my pants even when I wasn't pg. Bearing in mind that even some formulations of the flu shot (which "they" recommend for pg women) are in Class C....basically you have to weigh what's best for you and baby against what society (including MDC, no disrespect intended) is going to think. For me, after researching and speaking extensively with my midwives, I've come to believe that it would be more detrimental to me, my DD, and little baby for me to go off the medicine or switch than to stay the course. I'd be happy to chat more--its been an emotional journey for me. Let me know. ((( )))
remark-- could you talk to a psychologist? maybe having someone to express all your thoughts to would help ease your mind? or maybe another friend whose been through a similar event?
Married to overworked DH since 2003, happily mama to DD (01/09) and DS (4/12)
I personally avoid medications even outside pregnancy WHEN POSSIBLE...there are times, when not taking them can cause more harm then taking them. This sounds like one of those cases. If this is keeping you from sleeping or causing serious risks/problems within you (or your family) then it is completely acceptable to take what a doctor who knows you're pregnant recommends. I really resisted my inhaler with my first pregnancy, and when my doctor asked why I explained that I didn't want to do anything to harm my daughter. She just looked at me for a second and then said "What do you think depriving her of oxygen is going to do...help her?". It was then that I realized we have to take care of ourselves, not just the baby. They are important, but when they are counting on you in a physical (or sometimes emotional...especially after they are born) way, we have to be at our peak too.
Brande: Mama of 5 and perpetual student.
well said zuzu and kate. If you think this can help then I think it is a good idea. I am so sorry you are havign such a tough time. sleep deprivation alone is a lot to deal with.
Courtney and Cree, baby made 3, added one more then there were 4, sakes alive, then we had 5, another in the mix now we have 6!
A Momma in love with her Little Women-Jewel Face, Jo Jo Bean, June Bug, and Sweet Coraline.
I've been a bit MIA. DH was gone for a week, home less than 48 hours and then gone again for the weekend. He owes me big time :)
I hope that everyone is doing well. Tomorrow I have my ultrasound. I'm a slight ball of nerves while praying for a healthy baby. I think that I will really be able to breath easy once it is over.
My family was told the news over the weekend. Everyone is excited and they were all suprised at how far along I am. This weekend at our Thanksgiving dinner, we will tell DH's family. Or rather, I will walk in with an unhidden belly. I'm not really interested in telling them because in the past my MIL hasn't really cared. She isn't an overly kind person in private. Most people in our community know that, but there are some that I see her being so fakey fake with. Makes me gag. Anywho. We are excited and the kids ask questions all of the time! DS (6) has begun asking how the baby comes out. I'm not ready to give details.....
Married to DH 7 years and have three fantastic kiddos! DS 6, DD 4, and DS 2 ...... lo and behold another is on the way!
Remark- I don't really have advice, just hugs. I hope you can find a solution to help you soon, that sounds very stressful.
adoremybabe- hope the ultrasound goes well, tough having DH gone so often and long. I have inlaws visiting this week, probably not near what you experience but there is always a thread of what is actually being said versus what is really meant, it is exhausting.
We had our ultrasound today and it is a girl! She is lying transverse and I have an anterior placenta. This kid must be able to kick like crazy because I felt movement around 10 weeks! I thought an anterior placenta muffled movement for a while? It helped me connect to see her on the screen and I realized I had been worried that something might be wrong. Nothing showed up as wrong on the ultrasound and she is measuring exactly on for her due date. This is also a nice surprise, DS always measured 1.5-2 weeks ahead and his head was in the 90%, this little girl, is a nice normal size lol. Ok, Now I need to sleep, I am exhausted and spending a week with the inlaws is not how I want to recuperate! It is supposed to rain all day tomorrow too, now what am I supposed to do to entertain them?
Oh, and anyone that has ever cooked a turkey...I cannot find the giblets in my turkey?? I got out the neck but nothing else is inside that bird, trust me, is it possible they just forgot to put it in there? I don't need them to cook, I just wanted to make sure I was doing it right?
Remark-- I'm sorry that you're not sleeping well. As far as anti depressants, if you think you need them, then talk to your health professional. You know yourself better than anyone, do some research and keep your head up. :)
adoremybabe-- Good luck tomorrow!
Flavorfull-- Yay! I 'm loving that there are more girls lately, gives me hope for next week. As far as the turkey, they should be in there. I have never bought one where they weren't included and I always look for them since giblet gravy is a big deal at my house...
Update on the fleas, my uncle flea bombed the house today. I hope that it worked. I'm less stressed out than I was earlier in the week. The house is clean and all we have to do tomorrow is grocery shopping, make three dishes, and prep the ham and the turkey. DSS has some allergies that I thought were the croup. But he is on the mend, still not too happy about daycare but we never get a bad report. He is great there but I think he likes to take out his frustration on us when he gets home, which is ok. Change takes time. I'm not dreading Thursday like I was. I'm trying to look on to next Wednesday, when we find out the gender. I'm thankful for the wonderful life I have and I am thankful everyday so to me, Thursday is just like any other day. Except that the house is overrun with people and good food.
Artist wife to . Mom to DSS (3 yrs) and DD (04/12). (2/28/10).
Flavorful, congrats on the wonderful U/S. Just ignore the IL's, some people just have to deal with family like that (I mean lets face it In-laws have a notoriously bad stereotype for some reason), and if you and your family are happy, just don't include anyone who's not...I know easier to say then to feel, but it's what I'm having to do. As for the giblets, did you check both ends??? Quite often they are hidden in the neck cavity as opposed to the back end (it makes the neck area look more rounded)!
Brande: Mama of 5 and perpetual student.
flavorful, hooray for your little girl. glad the ultrasound calmed you.
csesky- so glad the fleas are taken care of. I think we are going to have to treat our house. I had like 3 jump on me when i walked into the girls room, and they often jump on me in my room. I am not looking forward to it either. Advantage didn't work on the dog at all, and the dollar store brand stuff we tried on the cats was weird and really liquidy. i wish we could just afford comfortis. we need to find a better flea stuff.
turkey, I don't know. I have cooked a chicken ad once I cooked a turkey but everything was inside.
we have to figure out what we are doing for thanksgiving, we are supposed to drive to georgia to be with my sisters boyfriends family. but we are really pretty sure it will devastate us financially BUT we already said we'd go and that would be pretty rude. It's just such a hard time of year. holidays, holidays, then birthdays we have two (three including my twin) in January, one in February, one in March, then the baby will come in April then my Hubs in May. This trip could upset the whole delicate balance of being able to afford bills for the next half a year. But not going would make my sisters family look bad to her future in laws. PLUS we have to fix my car before such a long trip. We can afford to fix it but not both. Uggh. My sisters going to be pissed and I feel like a heel.
my baby had a much calmer day yesterday after it's four hour awake circus show in the womb the day before yesterday. I still am not sure if it was the baby having muscle spasms or if it was my muscle but it really freaked me out. I should go hear the heartbeat to do to put my mind at ease since their was moment, just not much yesterday.
Courtney and Cree, baby made 3, added one more then there were 4, sakes alive, then we had 5, another in the mix now we have 6!
A Momma in love with her Little Women-Jewel Face, Jo Jo Bean, June Bug, and Sweet Coraline.
Popping up again! I'm mostly a lurker..LOL!
Remark, if you are feeling as bad as you said, there is nothing, and I mean NOTHING wrong with medication. If you're uncomfortable taking it for a long period of time maybe get a referral to a therapist as well so that way you are tackling the depression from both a medicated and non medicated point of view. Don't feel bad if you have to change the therapist before you find a good fit too, a good fit is really important when working with a therapist. You'll know if you don't agree with the therapist or don't feel comfortable enough to continue with them. You're health is important, it affects both you and your family and the baby. So take care of yourself in whatever way that means for you, just meds or therapy, or both.
Flavorfull, yay for a good ultrasound and the girl!!
I'm no help on the turkey part, I'm a vegetarian. Good luck cooking it! They always seemed like a challenge.
We have our ultrasound scheduled for the 9th and I'm suddenly so nervous! I swear the baby is a girl, I feel it and well the ring test has repeatedly said girl. I also dream I had a girl and it feels right. I'm afraid the baby won't reveal itself or that I'll be wrong or oddly enough, that I'll be right. We have a boy and I'd be thrilled with another boy too, but we want one of each...lol!
Otherwise, our Thanksgiving will be small. A friend was supposed to visit but I came down with DS's cold and she doesn't want to catch it or spread it to others in her PhD program. But I'm just so glad DH will be with us to celebrate it as a family, he was deployed last year. I made the sweet potatoes yesterday. Today I make the whip cream, pumpkin pie, and the buns. Tomorrow will be the easiest, just making the mashed potatoes and veggies while boiling a few eggs.
flavorful1, hooray for little girls! And I'm glad it was reassuring. I find early u/s aren't, but mid-pg ones are comforting because baby actually looks like a baby and has bones, etc. I think the giblets are probably in there somewhere. Usually they put them in an oven-safe papery type bag. If you can't find them and cook them (and the bag) inside the turkey, that's fine too--I've done that. I usually put them (and the neck) in the pan to flavor the juices. Definitely check all the way through the neck cavity and the butt. Either way, it will come out fine.
adoremybabe, anxious to hear how your u/s goes today. I'm sure everything will be fine, and hopefully it will give you some comfort while you deal with the family. Holidays are bad in that way, huh? I have trouble enjoying myself while trying to balance all of the obligation and competing interests.... Right now I (am blessed to) have three very old, unhealthy grandparents (75, 78, and 87), and its a PITA ensuring their participation in everything. They don't travel well, but they're all driving 3 hours tomorrow to have T-day here at my house. So DH and I, and my parents, will be sleeping on air mattresses while the old people sleep in the two beds. But it is good for them to do something different for a change I guess.
courtney, deep breaths. No matter what you decide to do, it will all be over shortly!
well my sister took it well and is going to take the two older girls with her. I am sad to not be going and sad I will miss the healthfully raised turkey. My sister met it last time she went up. Now I am trying to put together a menu for Hubs, Juniper and I. I will also check to see if my spunky 65 year old neighbor is celebrating and if not I will have him over too. I have a feeling he has nothing planned. I am also not looking forward to the grocery store, it was crazy 3 days ago, and I have seen the parking lot on the day before thanksgiving. Hubs is working but will try to get home before the girls leave and then I can at least go without kids. That will be a luxury unto itself.
Blueone, so happy your hubs will be home for thanksgiving! special days suck without Husbands.
Courtney and Cree, baby made 3, added one more then there were 4, sakes alive, then we had 5, another in the mix now we have 6!
A Momma in love with her Little Women-Jewel Face, Jo Jo Bean, June Bug, and Sweet Coraline.
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text:
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text:
Maybe he's tiring of hearing about it.
This is a discussion on Letter and response form my county sheriffs office. within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Here is the letter I wrote to my county Sheriff and the canned response I recieved. Dear Sheriff Gage, In light of the recent events ...
Here is the letter I wrote to my county Sheriff and the canned response I recieved.
Dear Sheriff Gage,
In light of the recent events regarding President Obama and other politicians in Washington who wish to severely limit our second ammendment rights, I would like to know where you stand. Several Sheriffs around the nation have made public statements that they would not inforce unconstitutional laws. It has also been noted that our own state government has/ or is writing law that would not allow Federal Agencies to enforce unconstitutional laws within our borders. Do you agree that our second ammendment is protected and that honest law abiding citizens should not be limited to low capacity magazines or be subject to only own firearms that this administration deems suitable?
Mr. ErnieNWillis,
Thank you for your inquiry to Sheriff Tommy Gage.
Here is the Sheriff's answers to the many questions that he is receiving.
Yes, he supports the 2nd Amendment!
No, he does not support an assault weapons ban!
No, he does not support a limitation on magazine capacity!
And No, he would not aid or participate in a gun confiscation!
Thank you again,
Executive Assistant
Sheriff Tommy Gage
#1 Criminal Justice Dr.
Conroe, Texas 77301
Maybe he's tiring of hearing about it.
Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon at large.
Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth
I just hope the politicians notice this type of response from so many sheriffs.
I think his response shoulda been "Dude... we're Texans!" Or maybe "Partner" instead of "Dude"...
I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
Clint Eastwood
A solid response indeed.
We should not forget that the spark which ignited the American Revolution was caused by the British attempt to confiscate the firearms of the colonists. -
Patrick Henry
The Sheriff was yelling dictation from his office to the secretary on what to write. That would explain all the exclamation points !!! Glad to hear another Sheriff honors his oath.
"Government is not the solution to our problem; government IS the problem". - Ronald Reagan 1981
I knew there was a reason I always stop in Conroe on my way to Houston, besides the Cracker Barrel on 45......
Straight and to the point.
(4) Springfield Armory XD-40 Sub Compact
(1) Ruger LC9
NRA Member
"Molon labe" "From my cold dead hands"
Well, his office certainly doesn't walk the fence.
Proverbs 27:12 says: The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
Canned or not, it's a good response.
short, sweet and to the point.
The Second Amendment *IS* Homeland Security
--------------------- Μολὼν λαβέ ----------------------
A good strong straightforward answer. I'm hoping for a similar reply from my local sheriff to an email I sent him over the weekend. We'll see.
I like his reply----------no BS and to the point.


text:
How to Hug a Porcupine: Negotiating the Prickly Points of the Tween Years
No. 9205
"You never listen to anything I say!" Yesterday, your child was a sweet, well-adjusted eight-year-old. Today, a moody, disrespectful twelve-year-old. What happened? And more important, how do you handle it? How you respond to these whirlwind changes will not only affect your child's behavior now but will determine how he or she turns out later. Julie A. Ross, executive director of Parenting Horizons, shows you exactly what's going on with your child and provides all the tools you need to correctly handle even the prickliest tween porcupine.
(210 pp.)
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The Montreal Incident
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post #42
Arn Anderson's Hat
Playing Backstage Politics
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Far Away From Uncle Ole
Posts: 13,386
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Re: The Montreal Screwjob.. Who acted worse?
Originally Posted by
KO Bossy
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Yet another big problem was when Vince pulled that swerve he, Michaels and his inside cronies were in on. That violated the trust of EVERYBODY in the company and brought to light the fact that Vince was capable of doing something like that. No longer could people go out there and feel completely secure about their standing in the company, or how their match would turn out. If Vince had a problem with you, he might just screw you over the same way he did Bret and embarrass you in front of the people in attendance and the ones watching on tv. When you're expecting guys to go out there and potentially hurt each other so YOU can make money, you don't fuck with your trusting relationship, because the second they don't trust you, they stop working. Vince is incredibly lucky more people didn't leave. Can you imagine if Austin had been so pissed by what happened that he left and went to WCW? We'd see a very different wrestling industry today, one very possibly NOT run by the WWE.
As for your speculation about Bret wanting his victory back, that's just what it is-speculation. Owen stayed because he was contractually obligated to-if he didn't, they'd have sued him and depending on the terms he may have wound up in prison.
Also, Vince and Bret had, by all means, a very good relationship up until the screwjob. You'd think that 2 guys who had a working relationship and personal friendship that went well for over 15 years would have at least given each other the benefit of the doubt. Vince had no reason to think Bret would do that because Bret at least hadn't violated his trust. And you want to talk about people who couldn't be trusted...you think Shawn Michaels, who was heavily abusing drugs and liquor, who ruined the pushes and careers of many guys in the past and who was a self centered prima donna in and outside of the ring COULD be trusted? Shawn didn't want to lose to Austin at WM14 and only under threat of physical violence from Undertaker did he concede-he very nearly stopped Attitude from happening. And yet Bret, the one who gave absolutely no reason not to be trusted in the past, was clearly the untrustworthy one...what sorta fucked up logic is that?
That's what it comes down to, really. I do not understand the logic of people who blame Bret considering what happened and HBK's state at the time. Even in some fucked up reality if Bret was being an unprofessional jerk, he STILL didn't deserve what happened to him. It was completely the wrong way to handle the situation.
The problem I have with your post is the fact that Vince already pulled a "screwjob" 8 years prior, based on Wendi Richter deciding not to resign with WWE. Go back to 1991, when Vince paid Ric Flair to show up on WWF TV with the WCW Title. Go back to 1995, where Luger had jumped ship the day after competing for WWE, without letting Vince know ahead of time. Madusa, in a similar situation, signed with WCW while holding a WWE belt, showed up on Nitro and threw it in the trash. Now, my opinion is that Vince did the right thing, as history shows that trust was thrown out the window years ago, when it comes down to money.
None of us can say whether or not Bret would have shown up on Nitro with the WWE Title. But at the same time, is it wrong for Vince to prevent the possibility of that happening? And answer this: What was the reason Bret left WWE for?
Again with trust. Did Flair give WCW a reason not trust him? Did Wendi Richter, Lex Luger or Madusa give Vince reasons not to trust them? And look what happened. All of them either screwed over their boss or got screwed over for not wanting to do business and lose their titles, eventhough they weren't under contract or signed with the competition. And I know HBK has done tons of fucked up shit, so he's automatically the scapegoat. Look at the relationship Hogan and Vince had. Hogan, giving Vince the impression he was retiring, sat out the remainder of his contract. And 6 months later, he signs with the competition. History has shown there is no such thing as loyalty or trust from the wrestlers to the promoters, what makes Vince/Bret so different? How can you say that Bret wouldn't have jumped ship with the belt, but for us that thinks he might have, you say there is no logic behind that?
In case you didn't know, Attitude Era started months before HBK/Austin. HBK refusing to drop the title had no effect on AE happening or not and I might be crazy, but I thought HBK/Austin were friends. And I've heard Undertaker had to threaten HBK to get him to job but with the way his back was, why would he refuse to job? So, it's a problem for HBK refusing to job because "he would have ruined Austin's push" but it's okay for Bret refusing to job because HBK "hypothetically" said he wouldn't return the favor. Even if HBK said he wouldn't return the favor, what difference would it have made? Bret was leaving, it's not like HBK was scheduled to drop the belt back to him the next month, the feud was likely done at that point. IMO, Bret and Shawn were acting like a bunch of fucking babies. However, 2 wrongs don't make a right. Sometimes, you have to be the bigger man. We all know Shawn was immature but when Bret went from willing to drop it to not willing because HBK said wouldn't do it for him, Bret officially dropped to his level. If I'm Vince, I wouldn't cater to a guy who could potentially jump ship with my title, a guy who doesn't want to do whats right for business, despite being so outspoken against another guy who he classifies as a guy who doesn't want to do whats right for business and, lastly, a guy who basically made the whole situation financially related. Bret left because WCW was willing to pay him more than WWE could. I understand he has a family but what makes you think that if Bischoff offered him a significantly large amount of money, he wouldn't have showed up on Nitro with Vince's title?
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