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So, how was falling in love?
Ok, last time I started a break-up thread that was fascinating but also kind of depressing. It's the holidays and I want to hear only happy things!
So tell me all about falling in love! I never have been and am so curious. Is it true that when you're in love, you JUST KNOW and don't need to even ask? Did it happen all at once or slowly, developing over time? Has anyone here ever honest-to-God fallen in love at first sight or is that myth? When and how did you know?
Tell me your love stories!
That's a hard question to answer! I've been in true deep love a few times. One was love at first sight but most of them took some time to really know it was love.
Not sure I can describe it well but some of the basic feelings are a knot in the stomach, heart beating extra fast, the urge to grin all the time. I think about the person I'm in love with through out much of the day. I want to know more about him, find out what he likes and doesn't like, learn his history. I want to buy him little presents, make him laugh, make him happy.
I've known my current boyfriend for 45+ years. We have always liked each other, had the hots for each other in high school but never got together, have bumped into each other over the years. Then a few years ago we would run into each other often and talked more and more. He asked for my number one day and then sent a text to me from his dog Zoey. It was too cute. We went out never really thinking it would be anything more than just the friendship it had always been but at some point it just sparked and turned into much more.
Being in love is the most amazing feeling. In my case, it developed over time but then one day BAM, I realized I couldn't live without this guy. And that's when I knew. When that person is all you can think about, and you just feel like a better person when you're around them, that's when you know. For me, the fact I could be 100% myself, and not have to hide anything and he still stayed and loved me more helped expedite the falling in love. We also have been able to talk and compromise on everything from when to get married to how much of our salaries go into savings to who gets to pick the houses we live in (he's in the Navy). It's just all been wonderful.
We're similar in a lot of ways, which is odd because people might assume we're very different. We have similar backgrounds/upbringings/parents and I can see a lot of myself in him (and vice versa). We react similarly to some situations, which can be maddening but comforting too. I don't know a lot of people like me, so meeting a man like myself is interesting...Our senses of humor are about the same too.
I don't know, if you just KNOW if you're in love. I think a lot of people confuse love and lust, or even love and codependency. Perhaps if you've been in a relationship where you've confused love with something else, it's easier to know the real thing when it does happen though.
That's how I'm experiencing being "in love." But it means different things to different people. So others can call it what they want.
I have been in love twice. The first time I had known the guy for many years, but not incredibly well. We went to different schools and met at the local pool, in kindergarten, when I had a Janet Jackson wardrobe malfunction. He gave me nothing but hell, for years, after that. Splashed me relentlessly every summer, pulled my hair, you know... the normal boy stuff. I loathed him. That is until we were in high school. I started talking to him one night at a party. We were 16 and he was beyond drunk, but funny and easy to talk to. I helped a mutual friend get him to a car so he could lie down in the back seat. As we were walking away he asked me to come back. I walked up and he said, "I probably shouldn't tell you this but I have been in head over heels in love with you since we were four years old" and then he passed out. I knew when he said it that he meant every word, and that I had feeling for him too. I couldn't stop thinking about him. Those feelings quickly turned to a deep love. We were together 7 years.
The second time was kind of the same, but felt different in ways. I knew him for many years, had a 'feeling we might hit it off' and it turned out he felt the same thing. It happened fast and hard and to keep the thread up beat & sweet, I will leave it at that.
And I am sorry, I got a little lost in the moment ;) As far as "how was it?", it was/is great. It is an amazing feeling, both times. Falling in love at 16 and 36 was similar in so many ways, and so different in many others. At 16 we had so many plans and dreams. He was an amazing artist and also helped his father build homes so he drew blue prints to our home. Silly, but sweet. The second time I felt 16 all over again. Nervous, anxious, thought about him non stop. We would text until 3am because we could not get enough of talking to each other, but I had more sense and didn't 'expect' the moon, so to speak.
I'm not sure when I realized it but it was gradual. I think he was in love with me early on but didn't tell me because I definitely didn't feel the same way. He's amazing and will to do pretty much anything to make me happy.
But being in love and being compatible in a long term relationship are very different and separate for me. I've been in love before with men(2) that are not compatible with me..and that sucks! I still love them and not any less just because we have differences. I just can't be with them. Current guy and I are so similar on so many things(values, views, habits, etc) and enjoy the same activities that it makes it even better and will hopefully make the relationship last longer.
Oh yea, and being in love is the best high ever.
When I met my husband, I knew I would marry him. I was 18 and dating an abusive man. Somehow my husband knew I was being abused and was my friend. He gave me the courage to break up with the abusive boyfriend. We talked all the time, day and night- about the hard stuff.... marriage, divorce, religion, children, etc. i wanted no surprises and there havent been any. I knew him before we married even tho it was a short time.
Loved hanging out and just being together. I could see myself marrying him and for the first time I wanted children, with him. If it werent for him, I'n not sure I would've been able to get away from the abusive boyfriend.... Which made me love him even more.
We met at the end if May, got engaged in Aug and married in October (my parents, hard core baptists, made dating him very difficult so we got married. We just celebrated 18yrs in Oct. I have never doubted that he's my soul mate. He would do anything for me and he does. I got sick early on in our marriage and it hasnt phased him. He works a lot so I dont have too.
It hasnt been easy but we are in it together.
I have said "I love you" romantically 3 times. The first one I wanted to hear it so bad, but I don't think he ever really meant it. The second one that said it had timeframes on everything relationship related and by the time he said it I don't think I felt it. This one, now, makes me wonder if I ever meant it before!! We said it mutually within a week of meeting, but it was one of those things where we felt like we had know. Each other forever. We would spend most of our evenings together and were so drawn to each other the feelings were intense. We still haven't been together too long, but it feels like nothing else I have experienced. I hope this one is "it" and that this feeling of unconditional love is reciprocated always, but if not, I only hope that I will never regret feeling this way!! It's pure bliss.
I honestly don't think it was love at first sight, I was leaning that way just emailing (we met online) and then I heard his voice and I felt love and major attraction to him. Then when we met in person we never wanted to be apart!!
My first 3 loves started out as friends whom I had no attraction or interest in until their continuous pursuit wore me down. I always felt sure of their love, confident that they wouldn't leave me, and I knew how they felt BC they made it clear from the beginning.
My current man was love at first sight. We met while we were involved with other people and I was completely head over heels for him, but he was involved and so I let it go. The day he revealed he felt the same, I was beside myself. He wanted to run away together, but he was involved with a family member of mine and I was afraid of the backlash.
I wrote journals about him, I lost many nights of sleep over him. I was in love with him and he wasn't even mine. He assumed that I wasn't interested BC I didnt pursue anything after he revealed his feelings. We lost touch.
I never stopped thinking about him.
I looked for him everywhere. I remember Googling his name when I was about to get married.
Fast forward 10 years. I had 2 kids and my marriage had fallen apart. I ran into him again. We went out for drinks and I convinced myself I'd moved past him. I had not. Nor had he.
When we started seeing eachother I was amazed at how calm and sure I felt with him around. When I looked in his eyes my mind cleared. I felt like I couldn't breathe when he wasn't near me. We had both come out of unhappy relationships and didn't want to get involved. We tried to keep our distance but we couldn't stay apart. We were like magnets. I would stare at him all the time. We couldn't sleep when we were apart. His skin smells good.I never wanted him to wear cologne.
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I've only been 'in love' once but I've loved others.
Falling in love was pretty amazing. He was my partner, my support and my best friend. I have never met anyone else in my life I have connected with so easily, whom I could be 100% myself around, and whom I could also have the best time with just being total ridiculous goofballs.
He made me feel sexy, beautiful and like I was the most important person in the world. I honestly felt like I could get through anything with him. He saw me at my worst and even though I drove him crazy at times (and vice versa) he accepted all parts of me. The good with the bad. He saw me disgusting and sick and took care of me and still told me I was the most beautiful person in the world because of who I was.
As I've grown I've realized that sometimes that's not enough. For me it was important to have the freedom to explore myself more. He wasn't willing to come along with me, and I wasn't willing to give it up for him.
I've also met others whom I was compatible value wise, and have loved. But, that same transcendental 'spark' (not talking about sexual chemistry) wasn't there.
WOW! All these stories about love are so intense and amazing!
For me I was 19 and after the first date I knew he was the man I was going to marry. He was unlike any other man I have ever met, I don't know how I knew but I just knew he was a wonderful caring soul.
We spent a lot of time together and got to know each other well before we said the L word.
I think what makes it work so well is that we are so comfortable with each other. We know each other so well, and we really enjoy being around each other. When we are apart even after years of dating and now in marriage we always miss each other. We really have a good time together and we compliment each other. We love each other so much that the spark is always there. We make each other laugh and finish each other's sentences without trying to. We rather be together than with anyone else in the world and we support each other in every way possible. At our wedding people commented that we were looking at each other like no one else was even in the room and they were right sometimes we didn't even notice the 300 people around us.
Such beautiful romantic stories here...I got misty eyed reading everyone's posts :)
I think you do "Know" the minute it happens - and you might not particularly feel "love" at the moment of recognition...lol! When I met my husband on a blind date, I felt I "knew" in my gut that he was the one, though what I was actually thinking in my brain was like "seriously? He's the one? God, are you kidding me? He is a freaking Great Dane puppy!" ;p He seemed like such a big flopper, so silly, soooo tall (I am very short) so - ridiculous ;p and so very funny :) turns out he was ridiculously charming! I don't think there was any massive sexual chemistry, but that wasn't important to me - my priorities were having a good, stable marriage, with a man who would love and emotionally support myself and my son...
Turned out great :) we have had our rough patches over the 20 years, but at heart, he is still that ridiculous Great Dane puppy - and I still love him :love6:
(oh and, PS, he was - and is still - such an amaaaazing Dad for my (now our!) son! And he is still charming and funny, and spoils me rotten...and what has become the main point in our relationship is, we have realised we just really, really *like* each other so much! There is no one we'd rather hang out with than each other :)
Wow....all of these stories were amazing, I feel like I watched a bunch of little movies! I'm happy for all of you that have found the person you want to be with forever! Thank you all for sharing your stories!!
My guy and I have only been together for ~6 months but it's already the best relationship I've ever had! We met online but then discovered we had a bunch of mutual friends and in fact, we work for the same institution doing similar jobs, just at different locations. We have been on uncannily similar life paths independently of each other. He is into sailing and recently said to me that he has been on a heading of 1 degree and I have been on a heading of 359 degrees and we finally ran into each other.
I wouldn't say that it was instant. We actually took a little while to get going. Part of that was because I had actually dated a very good friend of his for a little while (also met him online) - we figured that out very quickly and were upfront and honest about it, but I decided to leave it all up to him in case he was weirded out about it. So it took us a while to meet in person, partly because we live in different cities and partly because I think he was just trying to process that.
But we got over that and honestly, he is the first man I've been with where I can say that I want to marry him. He's just awesome and our relationship is great - no drama or insecurities, just honesty and good communication and love and FUN. And we have so much in common and enjoy spending our time in similar ways (working out, socializing, cooking) so we spend a lot of time doing those things together.
I had two one-month-long trips planned that happened only a couple months after we started dating. Before the first trip, he initiated The Conversation to make sure we were "on the same page" before my trip. Then he picked me up from the airport when I got home. That weekend, he told me he was "madly in love" with me. Then he asked me to go to Chicago with him for Thanksgiving and meet his family. Then he took me to the airport for my second trip!
It's funny because physically, he's not the usual 'type' that I am attracted to. For starters, he's only an inch or two taller than me and I usually like tall men. But in one of many revelations, I've discovered all of that stuff doesn't matter - I find him extremely attractive now!
This relationship has made me realize how imperfect some of my other previous relationships have been. In one, I was a 'mother' to a semi-slacker (and hated it); in another, I had to work for every scrap of attention. It's been amazing to experience a participatory, equal, loving, positive, functional relationship!
Wow, sorry for the novel!!
meeting people you fall in love with online is much more common every day.
Ooooooh fun thread! I love being in love when you feel it you know because it is a feeling that you have never felt before. The first time i fell in love it was the best feeling in the world. Its like floating and no one can bring you down. It especially feels better when the feeling is mutual. You feel safe,secure,and genuinely happy. The best love is the first because its that innocent kind; you have never felt hurt, or heartbreak so you are free to love without boundaries . I have loved many times but nothing beats the first time. At the end of the day love is love and its beautiful.
I have never fell in love at first sight. I have fell in lust at first sight many times though lol. I think love is beyond looks you have to build and work for it to come.To me its another form of trust. i do believe that love at first sight is a myth. But that's just me.
I love falling in love ... perhaps that's why I've done it so many times. The butterflies, the excitement every time they call, the "can't stop grinning and/or thinking about them" feelings ... it's quite grand. :love4:
But while falling in love has been quite easy for me...staying in love is quite another story. That's the tricky part.
As for the 2nd, it's happened both ways for me. Several boyfriends I met and had that "instantaneous" feeling...not love at first sight, perse, but very intense LUST at first sight that quickly developed into love/lust.
But with several others, the feelings happened slowly over time. With my most recent ex, we were co-workers and friends for at least a year before any romantic feelings developed (at least on my end).
With my current...well let's just say that it took me approximately 16 years to realize that I loved him. It's been well worth the wait, I must say.
I think I always felt it was right at the time. The stuff that I should have picked up on that's wrong, I didn't see until after. That's love for ya.
I love falling in love too. I love the anxiousness, nervousness, the wondering what he's doing, if he feels the same way, the wanting to talk to him constantly but holding back BC you don't know the boundaries of the relationship. The knot in your stomach.
Some people don't like that part. I love it.
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Aries | March 21 to April 19A revolutionary idea for a clean, economic mass-transit system will strike you in the middle of the night, powdering both your femurs.
Taurus | April 20 to May 20You'll finally lose your long and painful battle with stomach cancer for the hand of the beautiful Esther.
Gemini | May 21 to June 20Although your life has not assumed the lyrical beauty of Wallace Stevens' poetry, it's right on the money as far as the terrifying sense of loneliness is concerned.
Cancer | June 21 to July 22Your habit of insisting that "the future is now" is leading people to wonder what you think comes after this.
Leo | July 23 to Aug. 22It's hard to say this, especially in binary:
Virgo | Aug. 23 to Sept. 22You've learned a few things in your life, but as you'll soon see, looking both ways before crossing the street isn't one of them.
Libra | Sept. 23 to Oct. 22You'll trade a chance to be the talk of the cocktail-party circuit for a plate of fried chicken, proving that you're no dummy.
Scorpio | Oct. 23 to Nov. 21History remembers the inventor of the machine gun, but not its first victim. Your role as the recipient of the first ice-pick noogie will likewise be anonymous.
Sagittarius | Nov. 22 to Dec. 21You've made it your life's mission to find the best crab cakes in Boston. Truly, you're one of America's unsung heroes.
Capricorn | Dec. 22 to Jan. 19Your long-held belief that women are beautiful no matter what their size will continue to net thoughtful nods from everyone you meet.
Aquarius | Jan. 20 to Feb. 18You've been busting your hump at your thankless job for years, so it'll be a grave injustice when your company refuses to pay for life-saving hump surgery.
Pisces | Feb. 19 to March 20Everything you've ever believed will be called into question when it turns out that Cap'n Crunch is a real guy.

subset: commoncrawl


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IBF Convention concludes!
By Johnny B'
The IBF/USBA 26th annual convention closed out Friday evening May 29th in brilliant fashion. President Marian Muhammad along with her staff, once again provided members with first class seminars for both referees and judges in addition to a fun filled evening banquet. IBF Chairman of Officials, Larry Hazzard Sr. oversaw and participated in both the morning referees seminar and the afternoon judges session. The judges seminar discussed the different applications of the ten point must system. Viewpoints on judging were given by Adalaide Byrd of Nevada and Jerome Jakubco from Illinois. The referees seminar was outstanding, opening with Benny Esteves Jr. New Jersey (duties and responsibilities), Pete Podgorski Illinois (dressing room instructions) along with Jack Reiss and Pat Russell from California (stopping bouts, fouls and point deductions). Assisting with demonstrations were Sparkle Lee, New York and Ray Corona of California. On Saturday morning the convention closed with a final meeting discussing a possible host for next year's convention. The most popular appeared to be Hawaii, China and Las Vegas.


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Contenders aren't just looking at possible trades to improve their rosters ahead of the July 31 deadline, they're also scouring the thin free agent market looking for available talents that fit their specific needs.
According to Derrick Goold of the St. Louis-Post Dispatch, that's what has brought veteran catcher A.J. Pierzynski and the St. Louis Cardinals together. The two sides officially agreed to a deal Friday night, and it's expected Pierzynski will be available on Saturday in Chicago.
A.J. Pierzynski was in Cooperstown. He has left. Working on deal with #STLCards, as first reported by @dgoold.— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) July 26, 2014
Pierzynski joining #STLCards tomorrow. Already in Chicago.— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) July 26, 2014
Pierzynski, 37, was designated for assignment by the Boston Red Sox on July 10 and officially released on July 16 after signing a one-year, $8.25 million deal in December. He hit .254/.286/.348 with four homers and 31 RBIs in 72 games. Not great numbers, but it wasn't just production issues that led to his departure. Shortly after the Red Sox announced his designation, Pierzynski was anonymously ripped by his former Red Sox teammates and labeled a "negative influence."
That type of stuff seems to follow Pierzynski everywhere, which begs the question: How will Pierzynski fit in with a St. Louis Cardinals organization that seemingly prides itself on avoiding drama and steering clear of volatile personalities?
It will be very interesting to see, but it's clear in this case St. Louis general manager John Mozeliak is more concerned about a baseball problem than a character evaluation. With All-Star and MVP candidate Yadier Molina out another 6-10 weeks following thumb surgery, they need an everyday guy who can handle the pitching staff and give them some punch offensively right now.
The Cardinals had been using Tony Cruz and George Kottaras — who was let go ahead of Pierzynski's signing on Friday — to fill in, but Pierzynski should provide an easy upgrade over both, despite his declining skills.
If personality issues pop up, the Cardinals will deal with them as they happen. That said, having a former catcher like Mike Matheny calling the shots and Molina's mere presence in the dugout may help bring the pieces together a little smoother.
There's no guarantee either way, of course, but the Cardinals had to act quick after dropping their fourth straight Friday afternoon at Wrigley Field. They're currently three games behind the Milwaukee Brewers in the NL Central.
More MLB coverage from Yahoo Sports:
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Mark Townsend is a writer for Big League Stew on Yahoo Sports. Have a tip? Email him at email@example.com or follow him on Twitter! Follow @Townie813


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Kuzmina recovered from a 22-second deficit after the first round of shooting to roar to victory at Whistler Olympic Park in the first day of competition at the Vancouver Games.
The 25-year-old Kuzmina, who had never won a World Cup event, completed the course in 19.55.6, 1.5 seconds ahead of German Magdalena Neuner, 23, who in 2008 became the youngest ever women's World Cup overall champion.
"It's a big surprise," Kuzmina said after winning Slovakia's first-ever Winter Games gold. "I didn't expect to win. I was absolutely sure that Magdalena would be here."
Marie Dorin of France took the bronze in her first Olympics, hitting all 10 targets.
In a slight drizzle on Whistler Mountain, the 5-foot-10 Kuzmina, a silver medallist at the 2009 World Championships, had one penalty on the prone shooting but was flawless on the second to win the first biathlon gold of the Games.
Neuner admitted she was shocked by Kuzmina's triumph, calling her "unknown" but said she was surprised to win the silver.
"I gave everything I had," she said. "If only I could have gone a little faster. I fought for it."
The German admitted to running out of gas in the late stages of the race.
"I lost strength in the last leg," she said. "And I made a mistake in the last shooting.
Dorin, 23, may have another shot at a podium finish as the French team were expected to shine in the relays.
"I'm very happy with the standing shooting because even though my legs were shaking I managed to hit all five," said Dorin. "And I was very well on the skis."
World Cup leader Helena Jonsson of Sweden came home in a disappointing 12th in 20:42.5, nearly 47 seconds behind the winner, despite perfect shooting.
Kuzmina, a police officer as well as a biathlete, said her recipe for success was simple.
"Train, train and train again," she said with a smile.
Age: 25
Place of birth: Tumen,
Residence: Banska Bystrica, Slovakia
No previous Olympics results.
Other career achievements: Silver medallist, 2009 World Championships, 12.5km mass start
Kuzmina, who started the sport in 1999, is coached by her husband and Israeli cross-country skier Daniel Kuzmin. The Olympic gold in Vancouver was her first major title.
She switched allegiances from Russia to Slovakia in 2008 so that her son would be allowed to accompany her to national training camps.
Educated in law, Kuzmina works as a police officer as well as an athlete and a coach.


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Jack Daniel's Tennesse Fire Whiskey adds extra burn with the addition of red hot cinnamon liqueur to their Jack Daniel's Old #7 Whiskey.
Enticing to all the senses, the aroma of fiery spice blends with the mellowness of Jack Daniel's and a hint of red hot cinnamon. The result is a sweet, hot cinnamon kick that complements the smooth and delicious taste of Jack Daniel's, giving you a unique finish full of unmistakable character.
This is a limited edition test run and will be available starting in April, but only in Oregon, Pennsylvania, and Tennessee.
See another picture after the break…
Product Page (Pricing TBA via Cool Material)


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» Human Resources Home «
Assessment in Student Learning Committee Best Bee of the Month - March 2009
Best Bee Award
Please congratulate the Assessment of Student Learning committee on being selected RCTC's Best Bee Team for the month of March!
The group's nominator provided the following:
This small but committed group of faculty and staff has met on a biweekly basis to help move the college's assessment efforts forward. The development of RCTC's Core Outcomes has been a meaningful yet challenging task.
Exemplification of RCTC Values:
Innovation: The group is always seeking new ways to encourage, support, and share valid measures of student learning.
Excellence: More dedicated colleagues cannot be found.
Fun: Laughter is a key component of every ASL meeting.
Learner-Centered: The group believes in measuring not only to understand our students' specific skill sets and knowledge base, but also so that new curriculum an instructional methods may be developed to improve student learning. (Assessment is ALL ABOUT THE LEARNING).
Respect: The group is quite diverse in terms of academic fields. Although everyone may not agree on a particular topic, our discussions are always open and respectful. Everyone is a valued member of the team.
Teamwork: This crew has worked together to prepare and deliver many presentations, Power of 1 events, and the Core Outcomes. None of these tasks could have been accomplished without teamwork!
The Best Bee Team will receive a pizza party and be recognized with individual certificates.
Congratulations All!
Sent on Behalf of the Recognition Committee
Are your colleagues or co-workers demonstrating extra effort, exemplary service, or demonstrated expertise in your department or on a committee? Are they working on a special project for their job/department/college or in the community? If so, please consider nominating them for "Best Bee of the Month."
The Employee Relations Committee (ERC) has implemented a process to recognize and reward employees for outstanding job performances. Recognitions can be awarded:
- Work Team Recognition. Recognition would include committee work, community service work, and department achievements and could also highlight something new the group has done or is working on. Work Teams who receive this award will be recognized through publicizing the award in the Crossings, on a "recognition" web site, possibly on our digital wall, their very own "pizza party" and gifts.
- Individual Recognition. This is a modified reinstatement of the "Bee Award" started by Bonnie Mercer. Recognition would include committee work, community service work, and individual achievements, extra effort, exemplary service or demonstrated expertise in their field. Individuals who receive this award will be recognized through publicizing the award in the Crossings, on the "recognition" web site, possibly on our digital wall, and gifts.
- Write Personal Notes. All employees are encouraged to write notes of recognition and appreciation to their colleagues and co-workers. This is a simple gesture which has a positive effect on the sender and receiver.
- Anyone can nominate an employee or work team. The nomination remains active indefinitely.
- The nomination form should include a narrative of why the nominee(s) merit being named Employee/Work Team {Best Bee(s)} of the Month based on criteria the nominator feels is relevant.
- The nominee(s) may be any employee of Rochester Community and Technical College.
- Nominations received by the 15th of the month are eligible for consideration of the following month's award.
Complete the on-line nomination form by clicking on the envelope above.


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"Reform Through Labor" in China
by Ramin Pejan*
Laogai, which translates from Mandarin to mean "reform through labor," is the Chinese system of labor prison factories, detention centers, and re-education camps. Mao Zedong created the system in the early 1950s, modeling it after the Soviet Gulag, as a way to punish and reform criminals in a manner useful to the state, producing thought reform and economic gain. The Laogai system is still in place today and continues to deprive individuals of basic human rights. An individual's mere association with groups unpopular with the Peoples Republic of China (PRC) government can result in the individual being sent to a reform institution in the Laogai system, through a process that deprives the person of due process rights. Once inside the Laogai, prisoners are subject to cruel and degrading treatment and oftentimes torture. These human rights abuses violate both Chinese and international human rights norms.
The Laogai System
The Laogai system consists of three distinct categories of reform: convict labor (Laogai), re-education through labor (Laojiao), and forced job placement (Jiuye). The Laogai Research Foundation, a non-governmental organization (NGO) in the United States, estimates that there are almost 1,100 labor institutions in the Laogai system with an estimated 6.8 million inmates.
Laogai, the most common type of reform, exists for prisoners convicted of crimes under the Chinese Criminal Code. Article 41 of the criminal code states that anyone sentenced for a crime "who is able to work, shall undergo reform through labor."
The PRC uses Laojiao to detain individuals it feels are a threat to national security or it considers unproductive. Individuals in Laojiao may be detained for up to three years. Because those in Laojiao have not committed crimes under PRC law, they are referred to as "personnel" rather than prisoners and they are not entitled to judicial procedure. Instead, individuals are sent to the Laojiao following administrative sentences dispensed by local public security forces. This vague detainment policy allows the PRC to avoid allegations that the individual's arrest was politically motivated and to assert that they were arrested for reasons such as "not engaging in honest pursuits" or "being able-bodied but refusing to work."
Finally, Jiuye is used by the PRC to keep individuals under government controls after the person's release from a labor camp. The Jiuye requires former detainees of the Laogai to live and work in specifically assigned locations. Under this policy, 70 percent of prisoners are held within the prison camp to continue working after completing their sentences.
Each Laogai camp has both a camp name and a public name. For example, the Shanghai Municipal Prison is also called the Shanghai Printing, Stationery Factory. Financial information on 99 forced labor camp enterprises collected by Dun and Bradstreet was released on June 30, 1999. According to this data, the 99 camps had total annual sales of U.S.$842.7 million. These camps represent only 9 percent of the roughly 1,100 known Laogai camps. The extremely cheap cost of labor in the Laogai system creates a very low-priced, competitive product to export, providing the PRC additional incentive to continue its use of the Laogai system.
Conditions in the Laogai System
Much of the information about the Laogai system comes from former prisoners, who describe camp conditions as inhumane. Former prisoner Tong Li stated: "The worst incident occurred after I refused to work more than the eight hour maximum day mandated by Chinese Law. At that time I was beaten by a group of inmates instructed by the police guards in the labor camp. I was not allowed to talk with other detainees in that labor camp. I had no access to newspapers, television or radio. My food rations were minimal." Other prisoners have testified to similar treatment.
According to Harry Wu, the Executive Director of the Laogai Research Foundation, prisoners in both the Laogai and the Laojiao are given only one uniform and one pair of rubber and plastic gloves each year. They are fed three times a day, but the quantity of food depends on their daily performance and the quality of the food is poor, consisting mostly of corn gruel and corn bread. Prisoners often labor 12 hours per day or more, working at farms, mines, and different types of prison factories that manufacture a wide array of products for foreign and domestic markets.
After completing the workday, inmates usually have a two-hour study period where they must read and listen to communist teachings. The camps are often overcrowded and it is common for two prisoners to sleep in the same bed and for 200 prisoners to share six showers within a half-hour period of clean-up time. While Laogai system officials claim that all prisoners have the right to prompt medical treatment, Human Rights in China, a Chinese-American NGO that investigates Laogai conditions, reports that proper, adequate, and timely medical care is a serious problem. In particularly dangerous situations, detainees work with toxic chemicals and are rarely allowed to wash their hands, even before eating. In sum, the conditions of the Laogai camps are hazardous and debilitating.
Applicable Chinese Law
Although Article 35 of the Chinese Constitution guarantees Chinese citizens "freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, of association, of procession and of demonstration," the PRC has curtailed these freedoms on several occasions. For example, on October 25, 1998, China's State Council promulgated two sets of regulations, one entitled Regulations on the Registration and Management of Social Groups, and the other, Provisional Regulations on the Registration and Management of People-Organized Non-Enterprise Units. The new laws had the following effects: (1) the number of legal requirements and time necessary for establishing a social group were increased; (2) Chinese authorities were allowed more leeway to forbid the registration of selected groups; (3) the involvement of people in social groups who have had their political rights removed was forbidden; (4) the controls that can be placed on groups by their "official government sponsors" were increased; and (5) government funding provided for new groups was limited. It should be noted that even prior to the implementation of the new set of regulations, Chinese law required all independent groups to register with the Chinese government. These regulations result in the PRC denying its citizens their right to association and allow the government to detain its citizens in the Laogai under unconstitutional terms.
In addition to promulgating regulations that conflict with Chinese constitutional provisions, the PRC also crafted its criminal code to allow the detention of individuals for an undefined array of activities it considers politically threatening. For example, in 1997, the PRC redrafted its 1979 criminal code, broadening the scope of what constitutes a counterrevolutionary crime. Under the 1979 criminal code, counterrevolutionary crimes were defined as "all acts endangering the Peoples Republic of China committed with the goal of overthrowing the political power of the dictatorship." When the crime was renamed "endangering state security" under the 1997 criminal code, an explanation of what constituted endangerment was not provided. As a result, the PRC may now criminalize activities it interprets as threatening state security.
The PRC also broadened Article 91 of the 1979 criminal code, which previously mandated that an individual could be found guilty of collusion when he or she conspired "with foreign states to harm the sovereignty, territorial integrity, and security of the PRC." Article 102(1) of the 1997 code broadens this crime by adding "foreign institutions, organizations, and individuals" to accompany "foreign states" as entities with which one cannot collude. This broadening of the scope of crimes, along with the ambiguous language of the code, allows the PRC to regulate more public activities, and gives courts wide latitude to interpret a multitude of activities as criminal activities and detain more people in the Laogai system.
The conditions of Laogai camps are also in non-compliance with policy statements issued by the PRC, such as the White Paper on Human Rights, an official document issued by the PRC government in November 1991 setting forth the PRC's human rights policy. Although the White Paper guarantees prisoners the right to personal dignity and personal security, the U.S. State Department has indicated that the Laogai is not in compliance with these provisions. In its China Country Report on Human Rights Practices for 1998, the U.S. State Department noted that conditions in Laogai penal institutions for both political prisoners and common criminals are harsh and degrading. The report goes on to note that prisoners are tortured with pain inflicting devices such as cattle prods and electrodes. This treatment clearly denies prisoners their rights to dignity and personal security as set forth in the PRCs White Paper on Human Rights. The White Paper also states that convicts shall not work more than eight hours per day and should receive the same amount of food that ordinary employees of state-run industries receive when doing similar work. According to the Laogai Research Foundation, however, many ex-prisoners testify that they worked 12 to 14-hour days, and consumed a very poor diet lacking important nutrients.
Violation of International Law and Standards
In addition to not complying with the PRC's domestic standards, the Laogai system is also in violation of international law. Both the Universal Declaration on Human Rights (UDHR) and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR) include the rights to due process and freedom from cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment. In addition, the Convention Against Torture prohibits torture in all cases.
Violations of the UDHR and ICCPR. All of the member states of the United Nations, including the PRC, have adopted the UDHR. The PRC signed the ICCPR in October 1998, but has not ratified it; however, 94 countries have ratified the ICCPR, supporting the position that particular provisions in the document, such as due process rights and freedom from cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment, are customary international law. For this reason, the PRC is arguably bound to uphold these standards.
Both the UDHR and the ICCPR provide for the right to due process, including an adequate defense. Article 11(1) of the UDHR states that an individual has the right to "a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence." Article 14 of the ICCPR provides that anyone who has a criminal charge brought against them shall "have adequate time and facilities for the preparation of [their] defense and to communicate with counsel of [their] own choosing." Article 14(3)(b) of the ICCPR adds that all persons charged shall have adequate time and facilities for the preparation of their defense, and shall have the right to communicate with counsel of their choosing. Although Laogai detainees are given a trial, they may be appointed defense counsel only seven days before. This short time before trial often does not allow for the preparation of an adequate defense. Moreover, appointed counsel are usually agents of the state and rarely present evidence on behalf of their clients. Detainees are not entitled to the presumption of innocence and may not be given an opportunity to present evidence in their own defense. Article 14(2) of the ICCPR and Article 11(1) of the UDHR states that everyone charged with a criminal offense shall have the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty according to the law.
Furthermore, Laojiao detainees receive no judicial process. Those who come before Laojiao administrative boards are not provided the right of counsel or the right to have the legitimacy of their detentions reviewed by a judicial authority. In addition, Article 9 of the ICCPR and Article 9 of the UDHR prohibit arbitrary arrest or detention. Laojiao detainees, however, are oftentimes arbitrarily detained without being accused of a criminal offense.
The ICCPR and UDHR also address standards of treatment for prisoners. Article 7 of the ICCPR and Article 5 of the UDHR both state: "No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment." Article 10 of the ICCPR adds that "[a]ll persons deprived of their liberty shall be treated with humanity and with respect for the inherent dignity of the human person." Acts occurring inside the Laogai system that violate these provisions include excessive amounts of work, poor nourishment, and lack of proper medical care. Former prisoners' testimonies describe a wide variety of degrading activity that takes place in Laogai camps. For example, instances have been reported where prison guards beat and starve inmates for stealing small amounts of food or for hiding Western "democratic" books.
Violations of the Convention Against Torture. Although China ratified the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman, or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (CAT) in 1985, it made a declaration under Article 28 of the CAT that it would not recognize the competence of the Committee Against Torture, the UN body that oversees compliance with the CAT, to investigate allegations of widespread torture within its boundaries. Nonetheless, by ratifying the remaining provisions of the CAT, the PRC is bound to follow the convention. Article 1 of the CAT defines torture as "any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person." Under Article 1, the use of torture is prohibited as either a means of punishment or intimidation. Although Article 1 does not apply to pain and suffering arising from, inherent in, or incidental to lawful sanctions, the article still applies to the Laogai system because the PRC currently detains people in the Laojiao despite no formal judicial sanctions being levied against them. When Laojiao "personnel" are treated as regular prisoners and subjected to severe pain or suffering, the PRC violates the CAT. The U.S. State Department, personal testimonies from former prisoners of the Laogai, and organizations such as the Laogai Research Foundation have documented torturous treatment in the Laojiao system.
Ending the Laogai System
Aside from the PRC's obligations to eliminate the Laogai system, nations other than the PRC should stop importing products manufactured with forced labor in the Laogai. The United States is one country that is currently making an effort to stop importing such products. In 1992, for example, the governments of the United States and PRC signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) prohibiting trade in prison labor products. Two years later, the two countries signed a Statement of Cooperation which detailed specific working procedures for the implementation of the MOU. Unfortunately, enforcement of the MOU thus far has proved largely unsuccessful. In 1998, for example, U.S. customs officials attempted to pursue eight standing requests to visit sights they suspected of manufacturing prison labor products. The Chinese Ministry of Justice, however, refused access on the grounds that Laogai inmates are not technically prisoners, and thus the MOU did not apply.
There are currently a number of organizations that are actively campaigning against the continued use of the Laogai system and many critics also have requested that the United Nations establish a special tribunal to investigate Laogai activities. Harry Wu and the Laogai Research Foundation are leading this fight. Wu has returned to China numerous times in order to document the current conditions and continued abuses occurring in the Laogai system.
The Laogai system continues to be a major concern to many human rights organizations
and countries around the world. The manner in which the PRC places individuals
in the Laogai system and the conditions of the camps violate Chinese law and
international standards. One way in which Laogai can be countered is by further
educating the international community about abuses that take place in the system.
On September 17-19, 1999, for example, the Laogai Research Foundation presented
a conference, "Voices from Laogai," at American University in Washington, D.C.
The conference included numerous survivor testimonies. Only through continued
perseverance by the international community and organizations such as the Laogai
Research Foundation will the Laogai system ever come into compliance with international
human rights norms.
*Ramin Pejan is a J.D. candidate at the Washington College of Law and an articles editor for the Human Rights Brief.


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Alexandria New Homes Directory
The Alexandria New Homes Directory is one of the most useful real estate sites on the Internet for finding new homes for sale in Alexandria. New Homes Directory .com is the easiest place for home searchers to find new homes and new condos as well as the most efficient means for new home builders to get results promoting their new home communities in Alexandria.
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Do EU organic rules for wine leave glass half empty?
By Svetlana Kovalyova
VERONA, Italy (Reuters) - Italian vintners who avoid chemicals are disappointed with the new EU rules for labeling wines organic, saying the long-awaited criteria are too "lax".
After lengthy debate, the European Commission agreed in February on a set of conditions which will allow a wine made from organic grapes to be called "organic wine". Such a label is expected to lure health-conscious consumers around the world.
Reaction from Italy, Europe's second-biggest grower of organic grapes after Spain, was mixed: with cheers from the agriculture ministry and skepticism from farmers who put a lot of effort and funds into making chemicals-free wine.
"The rules are too broad. With my own rules, I am much more restrictive than Brussels," Gregorio Dell'Adami de Tarczal, owner of an organic farm in Tuscany and winemaker, told Reuters at a wine fair at the end of March.
New rules for the much-contested use of sulphites in wine are the most thorny issue.
De Tarczal, who makes 30,000 bottles of wine and 2,000 bottles of grappa a year from organic grapes he grows without chemical pesticides or fertilizers, said he already adds only 20-25 mg of sulphites per liter, way below the new EU rules.
Health-conscious consumers tend to shy away from products containing sulphites which are added as preservatives to wine, foods and cosmetics but can be an irritant which causes rashes and wheezing in people who are sensitive to them.
Under the new EU regulation which kicks in with this year's wine harvest, maximum sulphite content for organic wine will be cut by 50 mg per liter from the levels allowed for conventional dry wines and by 30 mg per liter for sweet wines. Continued...


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pretty spiffy knife raevan.....does it hold a good edge?
This is a discussion on KaBar TDI--any reviews??? within the Defensive Knives & Other Weapons forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I perfer the CRKT RYAN PLAN B. Less of an angle....
I perfer the CRKT RYAN PLAN B. Less of an angle.
pretty spiffy knife raevan.....does it hold a good edge?
I just bought the Kabar TDI nonserated two hours ago at the Pittsburgh Gun show...$30...am very pleased! fits nicely on my belt and has a great edge
plan b....good knife. it does hold a good edge, feels good in the hand, is easily concealable. but the sheath really sucks.
Plan B keeps its edge, but I agree the sheath sucks. Mine came wit chain for neck carry but never comfortable. the belt clip really doesnt work good. I just carry it in my pocket. I have an Idea for covering sheath with an outer leather one that will be better.
I bought a Ka-Bar TDI at a gunshow ($28) during the summer. I have not worn it much because it's so obvious in public. I've just been pocket carrying a Buck Strider as a backup to my S&W 642. Maybe I'll start wearing the TDI when the weather turns colder and my jacket will cover it. I'll wait and see.
It IS sharp and it does fit the hand nicely. Drawing from the kydex sheath takes some practice.
I have the knife, carry it occasionally but I am thinking about buying a HAK (www.hideawayknife) to replace it. The reason being that it always seem to be in the way on my belt and I've tried all positions with it.
I've also ordered several items from lapolicegear.com and been very happy with their service.
I was lusting after a HAK until finding out the cost and the long delivery times. The TDI is a mean little tool, and for $26 it was hard to pass. The angle on the knife is a lot like a framing hammer. The angle adds leverage to a sweeping, hammering type motion. It can also be used in a punch. I don't think the sheath is all that bad, it's cheap but could be a lot worse.
Benchmade also makes a T-handle daggar for about $60 that could suit your needs. I chose the TDI for the price and "mean factor," but the Benchmade is a very nice little weapon as well.
I look at serations backwards to some of you. I don't usually like them but I think they would be more useful in a self defense knife than a utility knife. For self defense they would allow a knife to rip through a perp like a knife through butter. However, they would get in the way for utility use and they are hard to properly sharpen.


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Photo by Jerry Gay
Des Moines Rotary donates winter coats to Highline school kids
Five-year-old Nehemiah Cornelius, a Midway Elementary kindergarten student, gives a double thumbs-up for his new winter coat at the annual Des Moines Rotary coat give-away event.
Rotary member Scott Logan, Highline Public Schools Security and Safety director, helps Nehemiah try on the coat.
Helping the Rotary with the coat give-away program were Midway Covenant, Highline 7th Day Adventist, Southminster Presbyterian, QFC and Washington Reading Corps.
We encourage our readers to comment. No registration is required. We ask that you keep your comments free of profanity and keep them civil. They are moderated and objectionable comments will be removed.


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Dove Beautiful Care Conditioner12oz | Conditioner
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Ingredient Attributes: anti-humectant
Ingredient Attributes: anti-humectant
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Fort Knox, Kentucky
Posts: 1,543
.30-06, .270, 7mm magnum, .300 Win or Wby Magnum Comparisons
I think in the .30s the Win has it. I see sales for .300 Magnum favor the Win Magnum and I understand.
The .300 Weatherby Magnum is more powerful agreed. Just as accurate too. But the power of a .30 can only go so far to equalize accuracy and power. A .30 cal is basically limited to a .300 Win Mag in practicality in my mind. Yes you can go to overbore in .300 to burn out a barrel and replace it as swiftly as you can because you are able to do so but in .30 Magnum the Winchester is just below the peak without all the barrel burning and unnecessary foot pounds anyway.
I was, two or five years ago, shooting a .300 Wby with a scope and that scope made a scratch on my forehead my wife saw after shooting it. It was another situation where optics without proper eye relief belted me on the eyebrow or fore head (and I am sick and tired of this sort of thing from all scopes and rifle manufacturers who think just sell and forget about the guy behind the scope and rifle) to make me look stupid.
I didn't care about the recoil I cared about precision and used the scope to the relief on the .300 to make sure the rifle was shooting properly. It was. It was a MK V Custom Weatherby. The scope did not have enough eye relief for the recoil on the .300 (Leupold) and I just ended up getting bloodied by the slam to my eyebrow. When will scopes that are true and reliable ones here in the USA finally get an act together to deal with recoil beyond a simple .300 Magnum? They won't. They don't care. They know nobody over here in the Americas would even shoot for accuracy with their scope and if it breaks in the process they'd just send or replace and you are back to it with the scope trying to get precision out of a hard recoiling rifle that most shy away from in the first place.
Okay so I sold that MK V Custom Deluxe not really caring about the scope with the short eye relief (Leupold of all things!) and went to the .460 Wby with muzzle brake and I attached a Leupold 1.5-5X VAR XIII on it. It's the Leupold variable that goes from 1.5 to 5X with specs actually not quite the range but the optics and the company over here in the USA is really top line and I won't dispute it. I shot the .460 Wby and it actually had less recoil than a .458 Win in Ruger No. 1 and the rifle was a dream except for the fact it couldn't feed reliably and so I sold the thing that was around 2K after use (and took off the Leupold 1.5-5X with the mounts) to a dealer who tried to say to me it was less in value because I shot it but that is another story because shooting a gun is absolutely necessary to value. If it does not fire or cycle ammunition properly whether NIB or used it is junk to be avoided.
Over here in the USA we like our .30s. In South America (Central is just central to us) the .30 is fine in .30-06. So are the 7mm and .277s flocking around and under unless the .300 Mag is better for somebody.
Well. To me a .22 Hornet is enough to kill but it is a varmint rifle and when I had to deal with varmints (coyotes) I started with a .22 LR 1906 Win and went .22 Mag 9422 for under 200 yards then the 6mm Remington for over 200 yards that I reloaded for in 1973. End of the varmint problem there.
Caliber is not the end. A Hornet can do the job easily out to 200 yards. A .30-06 can do the job out to 600 yards. So can a .308. Okay. So can a .270 or 7mm Magnum or 7X57 or some other around the area.
I like the .30 in the .30-06 and in the .308 and in the .30 M1 Carbine and even the 7.62 x 39:
I would rather have this for war but the .30 in our area is just fine. It can be a second rifle to a .458 or .416 over there for a two rifle battery.
In a One Rifle Battery only the .375HH fits the bill for me and only me.
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Posts: 1,841
The 300 Winchester Magnum is the most versatile 30 cal mag of the lot. You can shoot fast 165 gr bullets or the 220 gr match kings if your barrel has a fast enough rate of twist. I train guys to shoot 190 gr bullets @ 1,800 yards. That requires 83 min. of come up in your scope. You can approach 300 RUM velocities and can get close to the barrel burning 300 Weatherby round. Ammunition is available anywhere they sell ammo. And a box of match grade costs around $40.00 compared to almost twice the cost of the Weatherby. The 300 WSM are a good performer BUT if you have it in a short action, most have feed problems. On a long action, they feed better. BUT you cannot seat the bullets out far enough to make them a good shooter due to magazine length (short action guns). I would not own one. The 300 WM can do everything that all the others can, only better at a better cost. You aren't going to miss a few hundred FPS by shooting one.
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Just a quick rumor report to dish out for all you Ridley Scott / Alien fans. Michael Fassbender recently told Collider that he wasn't sure when Prometheus 2 would be released (or even when it production was scheduled), but he did say it is happening and has laid the claim he will be reprising his role of David. So there you go.
Andrew James
Podcaster. Tech junkie. Movie lover. Also games and guitar. I dig music.


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Poets on Film–The Chick Flix Series at Delirious Hem January 9, 2013: Poet Jennifer L. Knox is curating "The Chick Flix Series," a group of essays on women in film, at Delirious Hem. Of course, we love it when poets tell us about the poems that inspire [...]
So, uh, what are you wearing? April 15, 2011: My friend Jen Olsen works at Random House as an ebook managing editor, and she is an excellent reccomender of films that, while not always good, are always good to see. The other day, she pointed [...]


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