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10 comments found.
Very nice!Best of luck
great, good luck with sales.
Hi, can i edit this in Dreamweaver or only in Bootstrap?
Hi, for sure you can edit the template in any HTML Editor software that you wish, like Dreamweaver
why i am receiving this?
Forbidden You don't have permission to access /showcase/TEMPLATE_MOON_LIGHT/HTML_MOON_LIGHT_FORUM_AND_HELPDESK/index.html on this server.
Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
The preview link was broken, it's ok now
For the love of god,
What is the logic of using a same name of an item that already exists?
> http://goo.gl/frLblS
Hi my friend, Oh really? What a coincidence! I can swear this is the first time I have seen this item of yours my friend… Even the name and shape of the logos look similar… Do you really think I had any purpose or something to copy a coming soon template and only the name of it? As you can see this item is one or our MoonLight products series which is totally about Ticket System and Forum System on CodeCanyon. We have uploaded our systems in this name on CodeCanyon and just thought to upload our skin for it on ThemeForest too…
As you can see we have also made a full PSD design for it and then a bootstrap skin and our systems… I had no clue that there's other MoonLight templates out there! And there might be even more! I don't know… But anyway, still if I have discomforted you, I'm really sorry, I do mean it man!
We had no purpose or any superstitious deadly dark reasons behind the scene or something! I do hope you accept my apology and reasons honestly
Hi, any plan build new nice and responsive HTML5 Forum template? because I want to build forum from the scratch without any Forum CMS. I have $30 budget. Hope you are interested in.
Not at this moment but maybe in the future
Hi, I would be interested in your theme. I would be interested to a ticket system, in which a user can submit a ticket by entering a code (instead of selecting a category) and without registration. Is possible? other questions : can insert custom fields in ticket? how to give a vote to the service? tickets can be private? you can leave a ticket without the need for registration? thanks
Nope, submitting a ticket by code and custom fields are not supported. Yes, tickets can be private too. And you need to create an account in order to submit a ticket.


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3-branch Stainless Steel Radiant Heat Manifold Set w/ 1/2" PEX adapters
Brand: Rifeng
Mfr Part#: SSM103
Availability: Out Of Stock
Usually ships: Upon availability
1/2" PEX adapters are included by default. For other size adapters (free upgrade) make a note at checkout.
3-branch Premium Stainless Steel PEX Manifold Set for Radiant Heating Applications.
1/2" PEX Adapters included. Pre-assembled for fast and easy installation.
This PEX manifold package is common for radiant floor heating applications in areas with a total of 700 - 800 sq. ft of space, when used together with 1/2" PEX tubing (installed 9 - 12" on centers).
The following components are included:
(1) Supply side stainless steel PEX manifold with (3) adjustable flow meters (indicators) and (3) PEX tubing outlets.
(1) Return side stainless steel PEX manifold with (3) manual balancing valves and (3) PEX tubing outlets.
(2) 1" IPS Shut-off ball valves (1/4-turn) - one for each manifold (blue handle for return manifold and red handle for supply).
(2) Temperature gauges on both manifolds to monitor supply and return water temperatures.
(1) Float-type air vent to eliminate air from the system - on return side (air vent cap included for pressure testing purposes).
(2) Drain/fill valves with 3/4" garden hose connection and a cap.
(6) Compression-style adapters for 1/2" PEX tubing.
(2) Wall mounting brackets.
Technical specifications:
Manifold's PEX outlets are 2" OC (on center).
Overall height (when installed): 14.5";
Overall width (with shut-of valves): 12.75";
Supply and return manifolds are at 8.25" OC spacing.
Compatible with any ASTM F876/F877 PEX tubing (Bow, Viega, Everhot, Zurn, Nibco. etc.)
3-branch Stainless Steel Radiant Heat Manifold Set w/ 1/2" PEX adapters has an average 5 rating out of based on 6 user reviews.
Nice Product
Great Product for the cost. The fittings are a little bit to be desired but Manifold it's self is a great value.
Unbelievable quality for the price
Beautiful and everything is included, no need to buy fittings, thermometers, flowmeters, or brackets because it's is all included in the box. I will be purchasing several more of these manifolds for other projects.
great product great features complete package as described
very pleased with quality and features
Just fine
Manifold seems well made and at a fair price
Nice manifold
Same as the 9 branch review, perfect for my garage.
is the 1" intake valve threaded
Read 1 answer
Yes, the inlets on the shut off valves are 1" female NPT threaded (standard US thread).
Answered on 10/25/2016 by PexUniverse Customer Service
Does the 24v thermostatic actuator mount directly on this manifold to control flow? I have a Trueflow brass manifold very similar to this but have had valve sticking problems and considering this as a replacement.
Read 1 answer
Yes, both SSM101 and SSM201 mount directly on the manifold in place of balancing valves (white or blue color knobs). Actuators are made in Germany specifically for the SSM and BSM radiant manifolds and are of high quality.
Answered on 10/13/2016 by PexUniverse Customer Service
Is there any reason that the manifolds must be mounted in the vertical position in which they are shown in all of the pictures and diagrams, or could they be mounted "upside down" (i.e., at 180 degrees from their pictured vertical position)?
Read 1 answer
In an upside-down installation flow meters will tend to accumulate sediment and act in a manner similar to a dirt trap, which will hinder their operation and water flow, and will eventually lead to early failure. A better alternative would be to install the manifold in a standard position and route the PEX to the sides and then upwards. You can use PEX bend supports to simplify the installation.
Answered on 11/19/2015 by PexUniverse Customer Service
It this approved for potable water applications?
Read 1 answer
No. SSM and BSM manifolds are intended for non-potable water applications only.
Answered on 9/15/2015 by PexUniverse Customer Service
What is the flow-meter range per branch? Are the PEX connectors included with each branch?
Read 1 answer
The maximum flow range for each branch is up to 1.2-1.4 GPM. 1/2" PEX adapters for ea. branch are included in the package. If you need other size other then 1/2" PEX, simply make a note at the checkout. We can also mix and match adapter sizes according to your request.
Answered on 2/4/2013 by PexUniverse Customer Service

subset: commoncrawl


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Guest reviews
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based on 277 reviews
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When you stay at Hotel Colonial, you'll be in a great location, within just a 10-minute walk of National Museum and National Theater. Guests can take a dip in the outdoor pool, and free perks include WiFi and buffet breakfast daily between 7 AM and 9:30 AM. Other features include a terrace and a garden.


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Computer whizzes brainstorm for cash during 'hackathons'
SAN JOSE, Calif. — It used to be "hacking" was just a type of crime, a computer break-in. But today, the term is also part of a growing — and perfectly legal — mainstay of the tech sector.
Computer programming competitions known as "hackathons" have spread like viruses in recent years as ways for geeks, nerds and designers to get together to eat pizza, lose sleep and create something new.
The formal, marathon group brainstorming sessions are focused on everything from developing lucrative apps to using computer code to solve the world's problems. This year, a record 1,500 hackathons are planned around the globe, up from just a handful in 2010.
"A hackathon is the fastest way to actually do something about an idea," said Nima Adelkhani, organizer of the weekend-long Hack for Peace in the Middle East competition in San Francisco this month.
Law enforcement has not abandoned the term. Dozens of federally convicted "hackers" are serving prison sentences for computer fraud and other cybercrimes. And the Justice Department's cybercrime budget this year is $9 million to target offenses that include "hacking."
But the new uses popped up with increasing frequency since a pair of tech events in 1999 where developers worked together to write programs.
Yahoo gets recognition for the first official hackathon in 2005. And Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg has been largely credited with helping broaden the definitions by urging his staff to "hack" by "building something quickly or testing the boundaries of what can be done."
A new Facebook option that went live Thursday allowing users more than 50 ways to identify their gender beyond male and female was conceived during a company hackathon four months ago.
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Need an online lab test in Bloomington, IL? Simply order the online lab test you want and get tested at a lab in Bloomington, IL (Find More Locations):
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Our Online Lab Test prices include the doctor's order that you need to get tested in Bloomington, IL, all lab fees and taxes, and a pdf copy of your results. For current prices in Bloomington, IL, please CLICK HERE.
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For a sample report of one of our popular panels, please CLICK HERE.
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Control-clicking a document to see the Open With contextual menu is a handy way to choose exactly which app you use to open a PDF, JPG, or any other file. OS X has a problem, however, where duplicate apps can show up and make the list grow longer and longer. You can fix that issue when it crops up as long as you don't mind a quick trip to Terminal.
OS X Printing: Save Your Custom Print Settings
If you routinely need to use the same settings when printing documents from your Mac it quickly becomes a pain to make those changes every time. Turns out OS X has had a feature to save your custom print settings for a long time, and it's hiding in plain sight.
OS X: Using the "Go to Folder" Command
Using Finder's "Go to Folder" command is an easy and quick way to jump around in your file system. Need to go to a hidden folder or a folder buried several layers deep? No problem. Also, you can use this same feature in another place around your Mac, a place you may not have expected. Ooooo, the suspense is killing us.
The Perfect Name for OS X 10.9
What will Apple call OS X 10.9? Inquiring minds want to know, and we think we may have it.
OS X: Using Finder's Get Info & Inspector Windows
If you already know about Finder's Get Info ability, great! But do you know how to use it to get combined data on multiple items? What about how to open a special version of the window that'll dynamically update as you click around your file system? Well, after you read this tip, you will be in the know, friends.
OS X: Advanced Searching (Including System Files!)
Using OS X's Finder, you can do some fancy-schmancy advanced searching, including finding system files for troubleshooting. No more rooting through folders when the results you want aren't appearing in Spotlight! This tip's going to tell you how to use this handy feature.
New Dockster Mac Trojan Appears on Dalai Lama-related Site
A new trojan horse app called Dockster is targeting Mac users by exploiting a known Java vulnerability. The trojan is apparently being delivered through a website dedicated to the Dalai Lama and once installed can collect user keystrokes and other personal information.
How to Get Screen Captures with Stock Mac Software - Part 2
In Part One, we looked at all the screen capture options you have available to you on your Mac with just a few key presses. In this installment, we dig in deeper, and look at other options you have as part of the software that is built into OS X.
How to Get Screen Captures with Stock Mac Software - Part 1
Do you need to grab images of precisely what's showing on your screen? OS X has a nice handful of options available without you having to spend money on third-party screen capture utilities. The problem is, many of these are poorly documented...unti now.
LYNKtec TruGlide Stylus: Perfect for iPad mini
The TruGlide Stylus with a microfiber tip, 4.6 inches long, is just about the perfect size and weight for use with an iPad mini. And it looks great -- if a stylus is That Thing You Do.
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Wellness Tky Stw Dog 12/12.5z {bin-1}634244
Wellness Tky Stw Dog 12/12.5z {bin-1}634244
Product Description
Wellness Turkey Stew with Barley and Carrot Can Dog Food 12 Pack Wellness Turkey Stew is a delicious, chunky, slow-cooked classic. Whole food ingredients provide exceptional nutrition and extraordinary flavor. Turkey is the first ingredient, providing high quality protein. Vegetables are added to provide essential vitamins and minerals as well as to round out the taste. Your dog will love the stew recipe with tender cuts of meat in savory gravy. Turkey Stew contains no wheat, meat by-products, or artificial colors, flavors or preservatives. Since it is made in the USA, you know you are giving your best friend a quality meal. Features: For dogs of all life stages Turkey is the first ingredient Chunky, slow-cooked classic Whole food ingredients Tender cuts in savory gravy Contains no wheat or meat by-products Free of artificial colors, flavors and preservatives Made in the USA Item Specifications: Flavor: Turkey with Barley and Carrots Size: 12.5 oz can, case of 12 Guaranteed Analysis: Crude Protein: min 8.0% Crude Fat: min 4.0% Crude Fiber: max 1.0% Moisture: max 82.0% Calories: 859 kcal/kg, 304 ME kcal/can Ingredients: Turkey, Turkey Broth, Water Sufficient for Processing, Turkey Liver, Barley, Egg Whites, Carrots, Potato Starch, Celery, Guar Gum, Oat Fiber, Eggs, Sodium Phosphate, Natural Flavor, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Minerals (Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Cobalt Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Potassium Iodide), Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Biotin, Riboflavin Supplement), Choline Chloride, Rosemary, Sage, Thyme . Daily Feeding Guidelines: Serve at room temperature. Cover and refrigerate the unused portion. The amount of food your dog requires depends on age, activity level, breed and environment. Always provide access to clean, fresh water. When fed alone to adults, feed 1 to 1 1/4 can per 8lbs of body weight p


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Category page
1,243pages onAdd New Page
this wiki
this wiki
Weapons are purchasable pieces of equipment avaiable in the Armory or Shop in both Pixel Gun 3D and Pixel Gun World. There are currently 6 types of weapons: Primary, Backup, Melee, Special, Sniper and Premium. This is a list of every weapon in the games with its upgrades. (Note that some weapons are avaiable only in certain games. The message that appears above in every page related to weapons indicates in which game that weapon is avaiable).


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Login/Create Account
Check Out the new Remax App
Ask About This Home
1930's Colonial in wonderful neighborhood, .25 acres of land, shed, enclosed back porch, 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, wood floors and carpet, nice yard. New roof, new electrical 200 amp service, new sewer pvc piping, new survey. Not a drive by, call today


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Signature Tastes of New Orleans
€ 11,49
Bisher € 12,24
Lieferbar innerhalb von 2-3 Tagen
Januar 2015
BeschreibungFrom the hidden treasures tucked away in Treme to sweeping panoramic views overlooking the Mississippi River, these are sights, tastes and stories of our favorite restaurants. With over 70 restaurant recipes, historic photos and trivia about the city, the range of amazing food that is uniquely New Orleans is showcased. Enjoy the secret recipes from Commander's Palace, Cafe Du Monde and many, many more of the iconic restaurants of the Big Easy. An homage in words and pictures, Signature Tastes of New Orleans captures the culinary essence of restaurants from the Crescent City.
New Orleans Pralines
1¿ C. sugar
¿ C. light brown sugar, packed
¿ C. milk
6 Tbsp butter (¿ stick)
1¿ C. pecans (roasted optional)
1 Tbsp vanilla
1. To roast pecans, bake them on a sheet pan at 275°F for twenty to twenty-five minutes, until slightly browned and fragrant.
2. Combine all ingredients and bring to a softball stage (238-240°F), stirring constantly. (When you place a spoonful into a glass of water and it sticks to the side.)
3. Remove from heat.
4. Stir until mixture thickens, becomes creamy and cloudy, and pecans stay suspended in mixture.
5. Spoon out on buttered waxed paper, aluminum foil or parchment paper. When using waxed paper, be sure to buffer with newspaper underneath, as hot wax will transfer to whatever is beneath. Cool.
Untertitel: Favorite Recipes from our Local Restaurants. 423:B&W 6 x 9 in or 229 x 152 mm Perfect Bound on White w/Matte Lam. Sprache: Englisch.
Verlag: 12 Sirens
Erscheinungsdatum: Januar 2015
Seitenanzahl: 46 Seiten
Format: kartoniert


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Taylor Swift sweeps top prize at American Music Awards
By Piya Sinha-Roy
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Country-pop star Taylor Swift scored big at the American Music Awards on Sunday, taking home four wins including the night's top prize for artist of the year, as some of pop music's biggest names came together for the fan-voted awards ceremony.
Swift, 23, beat out Justin Timberlake, Rihanna, Bruno Mars and Macklemore & Ryan Lewis to win artist of the year for the third time, the most times an artist has won the category. She also won favorite female pop/rock artist, female country artist and country album for her 2012 record "Red," which featured songs about love and heartbreak.
"This validates that if you voted for this, that we are heartbroken in the same way and we fall in love the same way and we're happy in the same way, and if you listen to this, we're on the same page ... we're pretty much in it together," Swift said breathlessly as she accepted the final award.
Timberlake, 32, who returned to the musical spotlight this year after a five-year hiatus with "The 20/20 Experience," was nominated in five categories and won three, including favorite male pop/rock artist. The singer performed "Drink You Away" with his Tennessee Kids band on stage.
Newcomer hip-hop duo Macklemore & Ryan Lewis, who led the nominees on Sunday with six nods and came away with two wins including best rap/hip-hop artist, used their acceptance speech to address a social issue.
"I want to acknowledge Trayvon Martin and the hundreds and hundreds of kids who die every year due to racial profiling ... it's time we look out for the youth and fight racism and the laws that protect it," Macklemore said. Martin, an unarmed black teenager, was shot dead in Florida in 2012. A jury this year cleared the shooter, George Zimmerman, who is white and Hispanic, of second-degree murder.
The American Music Awards nominees and winners are chosen by the public, who vote online and via Twitter, and the awards are given out during a live three-hour ceremony held at the Nokia Theater in Los Angeles and broadcast on ABC.
British boy band One Direction, whose fans were lined up outside the red carpet to get a glimpse of them, beat Swift and Timberlake for the best pop/rock album for "Take Me Home" and also won favorite pop/rock group. Other winners included Luke Bryan for favorite male country artist, Swedish DJ Avicii as favorite electronic dance music artist, and singer Marc Anthony for favorite Latin artist. Continued...


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Nemo is a Belgian Draft cross. He is half Swedish warmblood. Stands nearly 16.3 he and 10 years old. He has hunted and trail ridden for many yeaRs. He…SOLD
S.T U2 Southern Gentleman 10 year old Registered Belgian stud. Stud number "ª#"ŽS63615"¬ Standing a whopping 78 inches at his shoulder, trailer's ties…SOLD
FOR SALE: "Miller" is a draft cross (Belgium x Paint) gelding, 12 years old and 16hh tall. This gentle giant does it all! Miller rides and drives! He was…SOLD
We have been rehabbing two half brothers. Their mothers are Belgians, and their father was a Haflinger. They are estimated to be between 5-6 months of…SOLD
*************Downsizing our heard******************* S.T U2 Southern Gentleman 10 year old Registered Belgian stud. Stud number "ª#"ŽS63615"¬ Standing…SOLD
Molly & Dolly are a mother and daughter Belgian Team. Never separated. This team has done all work except logging. Very gentle temperament and easy…SOLD
Lula Bell is an 11 yr old 17.1h Belgium mare. Pretty, Pretty, Pretty mare and she is a work-horse too. Harness her up and she will drive all day. She is…SOLD
Maggie is a 15 year old Belgian draft mare.She is approx. 17 Hands High & about 1800-1900 lbs. Will do anything you ask of her. Ride , Drive (single or…SOLD
Bakersfield, CA


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Fashion Fair Perfect Finish® Souffleé Makeup
We're sorry, but this particular item has sold out online, so you will not be able to add it to your shopping bag. Please try a different color or size, if applicable.
Create the perfect full-coverage finish with this skin-perfecting formula that absorbs oil for a stay-true, powder-smooth look. Available in 10 shades.
Shipping & Returns
Shipping your purchase is easy on belk.com. Depending on the destination of your package, you can expect it to arrive within 4-7 business days. Shipping Information
Returns are easy on belk.com. Easy returns
More from: Fashion Fair


text: I just wanted to put my two cents in again. I drive for a living, 5 days a week and 12 hours a day ( nites) When I am in my vehicle I have alot of time on my hands in the evening so whenever I have slack time I sketch. I make little thumbnails not to create masterpieces but to give me a memory boost the next day when I create my logo on the computer. Part of my "technique" involves thinking up company names (this is all done before I even think of the logo design and I also try to think up slogan/taglines. I find that by thinking up a company name or industry/profession first it spurs my creativity and the ideas come alot faster when I have some background to go on. I don't know about what you all do but when I go shopping I am looking at the packaging and I make mental notes of good design that I see; and while driving I look for anything that catches my eye and it isn't always a sign or ad, sometimes I will see certain architechture on a building and I will get the idea from there. Sure, sometimes I get dry spells but that is my body telling me I need a rest. But overall I find that when you have a pencil in your hand it is telling the mind that you are prepared and ready to get into action. I can't say how many logos I have created by an idea I had the night before but just the habit of recording your thoughts keeps everything in sinc, otherwise I have a memory like a seave and the idea would get lost. Anyway, here is one logo I did by just thinking about "BEER" and making my little thumbnails until I get an idea I want to try out. Blackknight


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Popular property highlights
Located within 2 miles (3 km) of Glenwood Cemetery, Rodeway Inn Airport is within 3 miles (5 km) of Flint Sit-Down Strike Memorial. This 60-room hotel has free breakfast along with conveniences like an indoor pool and free in-room WiFi. It's also close to Flint Skatepark and Swartz Creek Golf Course.
Free continental breakfast is included with your stay and awaits you each morning from 6 AM to 9 AM.
All of Rodeway Inn Airport's 60 air-conditioned rooms provide microwaves, coffee makers, and free local calls. Guests can expect to find cable TV and stay connected with free WiFi. Bathrooms offer hair dryers and free toiletries. Ironing boards and desks are also standard.
Rodeway Inn Airport features an indoor pool, free WiFi in public areas, and a 24-hour business center. If you drive, put free parking to good use. The front desk is staffed 24/7 to help secure valuables, and answer any questions about the accommodations. Additional amenities include coffee/tea in a common area, free newspapers, and laundry facilities.
Property features
- Free continental breakfast
- Free WiFi in rooms and public areas
- Free parking
- Indoor pool
HighlightsInformation missing or incorrect? Tell us!Opens in a new window
Rodeway Inn Airport
Hotel Amenities
Hotel Amenities
Public areas are equipped with complimentary wireless Internet access. Business-related amenities consist of a 24-hour business center and meeting rooms. A complimentary breakfast is offered each morning. This business-friendly hotel also offers an indoor pool, coffee/tea in a common area, and complimentary newspapers in the lobby. Onsite self parking is complimentary.
- Long-term parking (surcharge)
- 24-hour business center
- Number of buildings/towers - 1
- 24-hour front desk
- Free breakfast
- Free newspapers in lobby
- Meeting rooms
- Number of floors - 3
- Laundry facilities
- Elevator/lift
- Coffee/tea in common areas
- Indoor pool
- Total number of rooms - 60
- Safe-deposit box at front desk
- RV, bus, truck parking
- Free self parking
- Television in common areas
- Free WiFi
Family Friendly Amenities
- Family Hotel
- Indoor pool
- Free Wi-Fi
- Laundry facilities
- Microwave
- Cribs/infant beds (complimentary)
Available in all rooms: Free WiFi
Available in some public areas: Free WiFi
Long-term parking (surcharge), Free self parking, RV, bus, truck parking
Room Amenities
Rodeway Inn Airport offers 60 air-conditioned accommodations with coffee/tea makers and hair dryers. Televisions come with premium cable channels and pay movies.
Guests can surf the web using the complimentary wireless Internet access. Business-friendly amenities include desks along with free local calls (restrictions may apply). Additionally, rooms include irons/ironing boards and complimentary toiletries.
- Connecting/adjoining rooms available
- Free cribs/infant beds
- Premium TV channels
- Pay movies
- Coffee/tea maker
- Free toiletries
- Iron/ironing board
- Air conditioning
- In-room climate control (air conditioning)
- Free local calls
- Microwave
- Hair dryer
- Desk
- Cable TV service
- Rollaway/extra beds (surcharge)
- Free WiFi
Where to Eat
A complimentary continental breakfast is served each morning between 6 AM and 9 AM.
Nearby Things to Do
Recreational amenities at the hotel include an indoor pool.
If you have requests for specific accessibility needs, please note them at check-out when you book your room.
- Accessible bathroom
- Roll-in shower
- In-room accessibility
Hotel Policies
Minimum check-in age is 21
Check-in time starts at 3 PM
Check-out time is 11 AM
Payment types
Children and extra beds
- Children are welcome.
- Kids stay free! Up to 2 children 18 years old and younger stay free when using existing bedding.
- Rollaway/extra beds are available for USD 15 per night.
- Free cribs (infant beds)!
- Pets not allowed
You need to know
Extra-person charges may apply and vary depending on property policy.
Government-issued photo identification and a credit card or cash deposit are required at check-in for incidental charges.
Special requests are subject to availability upon check-in and may incur additional charges. Special requests cannot be guaranteed.
Debit cards not accepted
- Deposit: USD 75.00 per stay
Optional extras
Hotel Name
- Rodeway Inn Airport Flint
- Rodeway Inn Airport Hotel Flint
- Sleep Inn Flint
We should mention
This property's policy is to refuse certain bookings for the purpose of group events or parties, including pre-wedding stag/bachelor and hen/bachelorette parties. Up to 2 children 18 years old and younger stay free when occupying the parent or guardian's room, using existing bedding. The property has connecting/adjoining rooms, which are subject to availability and can be requested by contacting the property using the number on the booking confirmation. Alcohol is not served at this property.


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Blood Crumbs: Chapter 22Mature
"Liver temp and rigor both indicate that time of death was around eight and ten PM last night." Canar said he pulled a long thermometer out of the incision he had made to the side of Landon Turner's torso.
I nodded as Jared walked into the room, followed by his bald tech and Cleopatra right behind.
"There's trace blood around the drain in the bath tub and in the grout. I'll see if there's enough for samples but I'm not going to put a rush on that stuff." He said and frowned at the body.
"Something wrong?" I asked.
"Yeah, this guy is moving way too damned fast. I mean, we've still got samples from all over the Ramirez place to process and now we'll have a whole slew of new evidence. Even the preliminary stuff that we've talked about hasn't made it into official reports yet." He said and I let out a grunt.
"Are you saying we need to hand over this crime scene to state?" I asked carefully. Both murders occurred in Sandy, so I could make a reasonable argument to keep the case under myself for the time being. I didn't want to let this out of my hands.
"Ha! Are you kidding? State has homicides other than this one to deal with. Nothing will get processed any faster with them; in fact, it would probably slow the turnover of evidence." He said. "I mean, the fact that we got the DNA turn around so fast required calling in a favor."
"Well I hope you've got a couple more of those to use." I said looking over at a new Tilak on Turner's forehead.
"As soon as Canar gets it to me, I'll send it to the lab. I have a feeling they will approve our private testing facility again. We could have it sometime tomorrow or the next day if we're lucky."
"Tomorrow?" I frowned, the odds were slim that the DNA of the next victim was even in our database, but they had been slim for Turner as well. We needed that sample back.
"Yeah, Burton, tomorrow. Don't make me go into the details of the process. It involves words like 'restriction enzymes' and 'electrophoresis sheets' and 'radioactively charged probes'. Suffice to say, it takes time."
"Those three phrases alone almost put me to sleep, so I'm going to go ahead and trust you on this one." I said.
"I think they sounded interesting." Gavin jumped in.
"It's actually quite fascinating." The bald tech said. "A blood sample is taken and the white cells are separated and burst open to release the DNA…"
I tuned him out until he finished and almost laughed at the look on Gavin's face.
Gavin stared for a moment. "You lost me at electro-whatever sheet."
"Better than me," I said, "I stopped listening after the first big word."
"Restriction enzymes?" The bald one asked. "Well those are-"
"No…not 'restriction enzymes'." I cut him off. "I stopped at 'Fascinating.' I've been around long enough to know that whenever one of you scientific guys says 'fascinating', I know the next words out of their mouths are going to be complicated and boring as Hell."
Canar coughed as he tried to stifle a laugh.
The tech looked somewhat offended by my words but Jared patted him on the shoulder. "It's alright, Danny, not everyone's frontal lobe can have such a refined palate as ours."
Canar stood up and walked to the door. "I'm not seeing much in the way of new evidence here, and since the photos have been taken, I'm going to go ahead and move Mr. Turner to autopsy as quickly as possible."
Thaton walked in as Canar left. "Burton, you got any photos of the first vic?" She asked.
"Yeah, I have some eight by tens of Ramirez in the file in my car, I'll grab 'em. Someone out there thinking they might recognize him?" I said nodding to Jared and walking outside.
"Could be, certainly having the photo will make the canvassing easier."
"Anything so far?"
"Well, I was able to confirm that Turner was seen outside mowing his lawn yesterday so he probably wasn't taken at Ramirez's place then moved here or anything. Mostly the neighbors are stand-offish." She said.
"Recognizing any faces?"
"Nope. So far it seems our killer doesn't feel the need to be a spectator to the mayhem if that's what you're getting at. Just to make sure though, I have Officer Bowen coming in to confirm. He ended up doing most of the canvassing at the Falling Waters so he's the best to tell us if he sees any cross over."
I pulled the file out of my car and handed Thaton a photo. She took it and her notepad and walked over to a young woman with a baby in her arms and a small boy hugging her leg. As I walked towards Turner's house my eyes were drawn to his neighbor's porch. Sitting on a small plastic chair was a twig of a woman. A large blue oxygen tank on a pull-cart sat next to her. A tangle of clear plastic tubes winded from the tank and up to a small device affixed to her nose. In her hand she held a large cigar that glowed faintly as it put off a fragrant smoke. I found myself crossing the yard in her direction.
Her hair was done up in curls and she had a light blue tint to it. Her skin was leathery with a deep tanish-sunburnt hue. Up close, her seeming frailty magnified to a skeletal figure. Every vein pushed against her skin and suddenly I felt I had used the term 'skin and bone' to describe others much too liberally in the past. She wore a pink muumuu with a bright flower print pattern on it and thick brown steel-toed boots adorned her feet. There was a fire in her eyes and something about the set of her jaw that let me know only her body was losing the fight with time. Her spirit was as strong and vibrant as ever.
"Hello, ma'm, my name is Detective Burton," I said politely. Her porch had a small table set between two chairs, her own and an empty one. Two coffee mugs gently wafted steam into the air.
"Am I interrupting something?" I asked motioning to the empty chair where the second mug had been placed.
She bit down on the cigar with her tobacco stained teeth. Smoke poured from the corners of her lips. She pulled it out and smiled.
"I brewed the second cup just for you, Detective," She tapped the cigar lightly off to the side. Her voice was horse but there was a feminine quality to it. She motioned to the empty chair. "Now, please, sit. The name is Betty. Just Betty. Ya give people a last name and they feel the need to be formal. The world's too damn formal these days."
I sat down next to her and set the Ramirez file on the small table. "Well, thank you, Betty. In the interest of forgone formality, you can call me George."
"Alright George. So, Landon went and got himself dead." She said quietly as she took a sip from her coffee.
"Did you know him well?"
"About the best anyone could know him in his now life," She said.
"His now life?" I asked.
"Well that's what we called it. Might be silly to some, but he had a life a'fore prison which he regarded as his 'then life'. He moved to Utah after being release 'cause he need to get away from things and we called this his 'now life'.
"And the years during jail?" I prodded.
She shrugged. "We didn't need no name for that time. Landon didn't ever talk about it and I'm not the prying sort. Figure maybe that's why we got along as well as we did. Well, that and Pete."
"Pete?" I asked. It wasn't a necessary push; I had already figured Betty would continue her story whether or not I was paying attention. This was a lonely woman who wanted the company. My only job here would be to keep the conversation as closely related to Turner as possible.
"Pete was my husband. The good Lord took him before he and Landon ever got a chance to meet. Pete was also a negro and Landon was fascinated with our story. Our marriage happened back in the 40's and society in some places wasn't ready for interracial unions. Even outlawed it as I'm sure you've heard. Utah was different, mind you there were those that frowned upon it." She laughed as she took another pull of her cigar. "Not least of which was my daddy."
Betty grinned noticing my clear discomfort. "This bit of history makes most people uncomfortable. White guilt, Landon called it. He liked it here because he said Mormons felt guiltier than most. Left him alone mostly. Might just be because there really aren't a large percent of coloreds in the state."
"So I take it he didn't have too many close friends." I said.
"Landon wasn't one to extend the olive branch around here and the neighbors seemed just fine with his seclusion. This neighborhood ain't full of a bunch of racists…it's just."
"White guilt." I confirmed.
"Exactly. World's going down the shitter these days with all the politically corrected talk tellin' us what we can and can't say." She pointed her cigar at me. "Don't think I haven't noticed you cringe every time I say 'coloreds' or 'negro' instead of African American."
"It doesn't effect you I can see." I deflected.
"Nope. You could say I been inoculated against the guilt." She said with a big grin. She leaned forward conspiratorially. "Got a shot of vitamin Pete."
I couldn't help but laugh at this.
"Did he have anyone visit him more than most?" I asked.
"Nope. He didn't even much care for maintenance people, liked to do all the work himself. He was gifted when it came to repairs. The man saved me a lots of money that would have gone to some swindling crooks."
I pulled out a photo of Ramirez from the file between us and showed it to her.
"You seen this man around at all?"
She hadn't seen him. I sighed and took a sip of coffee, it was strong and delicious. I sat and let silence fill the void. Sometimes when you're questioning someone for information they might have but don't know what that information might be, silence was your best option. People feel uncomfortable with it and try to fill it with whatever they can. Sometimes, exactly what you need. Betty was not one to disappoint.
"He was sick, you know." She said softly.
"Landon was?" I asked, my curiosity piqued.
"Yeah whoever went and killed him just sped up the timetable. He was terminal. The big C."
"Cancer?" I said with a twinge of excitement. If Turner had cancer that would also mean that he had his blood drawn for tests. It might be where the blood droplet from Ramirez's crime scene originated from.
"In his butt-hole." She confirmed with a nod.
I had taken a sip of coffee and almost choked on these words. "You mean he had colon cancer?"
"That's what I said, didn't I? They couldn't treat him for it none, he just had to sit back and let it eat him alive from the inside. Said it wasn't worth it, too risky. Imagine that, the value of human life has an expiration date and it aint when you die."
I nodded.
"It's why I went back to smokin' again. I mean what's the point of keeping something in pristine condition when it's apparently got no value."
"You know that's not true, right?" I said, "About him being worthless."
"Yeah he couldn't afford it really. And they said the chemotherapy is a poison. Basically they just poison you and the cancer at the same time and hope that it dies first. He was only sixty-five but thirteen years in prison will age anyone ten times that. They said he just wasn't strong enough."
I patted her hand and smiled. "It was painless." I offered.
She nodded. "It weren't that I was his only friend these days either. A woman my age has a tendency to have outlived all her friends. I'm pretty sure he was my last."
I finished my coffee and chatted with her about inconsequential things for a small time. When my cup was empty, I thanked her and walked back to the crime scene. I was armed with a new lead and today would be busy.


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This trilogy of medieval Scottish romances are a little darker in tone than the Bride Quest trilogies. To me, they're evocative of those old Gothic romances which featured mysterious heroes and intrepid heroines, often solving a mystery while uncertain of each other's motives. Setting is also a character in Gothic romances, and the remote keeps in these books certainly have their own atmosphere. Naturally, there's a whiff of the paranormal, too, or at least people pretending that otherworldly influences are at work. I had a wonderful time writing these books. Although there are connections between the books, they are more loosely linked than some of my other series. It's less important that they be read in order.
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Given that this happened in Chicago, your having a gun on you will result in more severe charges for you than for the thugs. The only real action you can take in this case is to VOTE the politicians out of office and demand sane laws.
This is a discussion on True Story in News 6/5/11: Flash Mob in Chicago: 2 Severely Beaten & Robbed within the Carry & Defensive Scenarios forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; What would you do here?...a Mob of 20 Youths. Mobs Attack 2 Men In Streeterville « CBS Chicago CHICAGO (WBBM) – Police said at least ...
What would you do here?...a Mob of 20 Youths.
Mobs Attack 2 Men In Streeterville « CBS Chicago
CHICAGO (WBBM) – Police said at least two people were attacked by criminal "flash mobs" in the Streeterville neighborhood on Saturday night.
The first attack happened around 8:25 p.m. Saturday when a man was attacked after parking his motor scooter near the Northwestern University campus in Streeterville.
The man had parked on the 300 block of East Chicago Avenue across the street from Wieboldt Hall when a group of 15 to 20 men, all approximately 16 to 20 years old and black, approached him, according to an alert from the university.
One of them threw a baseball at the victim's face and knocked him to the ground, the alert said. Several others from the group punched and hit him several times. The victim tried to protect himself and fought back.
I'd most likely freeze and get beaten to a pulp and never recover from the injuries.
Or...when the group got to a certain distance I'd yell "Stop or I'll shoot" Then break all the rules and fire three spaced (Center, Left & Right) warning shots at their feet. Well it's not exactly a "Warning Shot" if it's going to hit someone...so...it's a 'diffusely aimed shot' for at least 3 of the thugs and a 'warning shot' for the others.
If they all turn and run you have neutralized the threat with three shots and 3 wounded perps. If any continue to advance you keep firing / reloading till you hear a 'click' I carry 24 rounds of .45
On paper I'd have one round for each thug and some to spare.
My hunch (and someone w/ police / FBI experience could have real stats on this)...My hunch is that once a group is fired upon in a credible manner...3 shots of .45...99% of the time the mob flees...They could have video and 'battlefield' reports to base that on.
they're amateur thugs...they want to get home to the (foodstamp) chips and the (stolen) big screen and some Lovin' w/ (meal ticket) Baby Momma.
I'd guess the exception to the "mob fleeing rule" would be in a riot / political situation where there is a 'group purpose' (looting or a building take-over) That group may be organized or motivated enough to take casualties and overwhelm you.
So...I think your rule of thumb would be
A) Fire 3 shots on the Advancing Mob.
B) Wait..to judge effect (which you'd hope would be instant)
C) If that Fails...Fire one shot per Thug as you seek cover / retreat until ammo is gone.
I'm 60 yrs old and can't run...I'd have to stay put and Fire.
To Summarize: 3 shots, and If they refuse my invitation to continue living, they get a 21 round 'salute'
I am betting that the 3 shots will turn them around.
The key to keeping a low body count would be my Awareness in
recognizing the pending attack from the greatest distance...in the City
I AM "always looking over my shoulder"
I hope the 2 victims can continue with school without losing a semester.
Could you imagine living in Chicago where you can't protect yourself ???
Scene of the Crime on Google Street View:
Given that this happened in Chicago, your having a gun on you will result in more severe charges for you than for the thugs. The only real action you can take in this case is to VOTE the politicians out of office and demand sane laws.
"I've noticed that everyone that is pro-abortion has already been born." - Ronald Reagan
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson
You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.
Proverbs 27:12 says: The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
A mob of 15 or 20 men in their late teens early 20's and I am suppose to do something with my firearm? We have an Alter Ego rule in SC that basically allows me to act in self defense as if the attack on someone else is an attack on me and I am in imminent danger of death or great bodily injury. When we talk about a mob attack this is an impractical possibility. Call 911, be a good witness.
"I've noticed that everyone that is pro-abortion has already been born." - Ronald Reagan
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson
You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.
To the OP,
You are 60yrs old and between 15 to 20 black thugs begin surrounding you after you (get out of your car, turn a corner....etc).
You live in MN.
Please help me understand the following of your tactical protocol: Why on earth do you avoid, at minimum, getting a firm grip on your sidearm as they approach and before they reach contact distance.
There is a massive disparity of force. Just one is likely a disparity of force given your age.
Moreover, if they continued to advance or were already approaching contact distance, help me understand your warning shot tactical strategy versus shooting to neutralize multiple threats? What is your thought process behind the feeling that says "hold back" right at that point? Despite an incredibly dangerous situation to you, you Really Intend to avoid shooting them.
To me, warning shots are extremely dangerous for you.
If you want to "give them a chance" and/or provide an opportunity for them to back down, do it with an early grab of your holstered sidearm.
They continue to aggress by closing distance, go digging in their baggy pants, flank you, begin moving off your current standing spot and
bang bang bang bang bang.
This is an extremely dangerous scenario where you have ambush advantage.
Use this situational gift fully.
"No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that's in the right and keeps on a-comin."
Texas Ranger Capt William Jessie McDonald
Mobs and gangs... :angry:
O2 thieves
+100 ret
Sent from my phone
Trust in God and keep your powder dry
"A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source
I like retsup don't step foot inside Illinois ever,In a mob scenario like described I will try to position a vehicle between me and them and start yelling stop don't come any closer your scaring me I'm afraid etc.,I'm sure they will become emboldened by the crippled old white guy ,until they meet Mr Colt and Mr Sig,at that point I yell don't come any closer or I will shoot,next dude takes a step forward gets shot COM,then I take the next threat,I'm gonna hope they break and run away at that point,Cowards usually don't hang around very long after stuff goes South,if somebody else pulls a gun they get double tapped,scanning and looking 360 for threats,while constantly moving gun at ready position.If I'm using my jeep for cover chances are the AR 15 with 6 mags are in it,I will try to get it ready to go asap,30 rounds of whoop ass will make the dumbest Gang banger run like the devils after him
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
The idea of a warning shot is wrong in this situation. Granted there is a good chance that the display of the gun may make the mob disperse since they were just playing a "Game" in their opinion. None of them want to get killed for that. If you fire a "warning" shot, it is still considered use of deadly force, no matter where you aimed or hit the BG. If your going to shoot, shoot to end the threat (COM). Why waste ammo that you may need if the mob continues to press the attack. Wouldn't it suck to be killed by one of the first BG's you shot in the leg, when he pulls his gun, enraged that you shot him. In the original scenario I am finding cover yelling once to draw attention from possible witnesses to call 911 and drawing my weapon. The first person to advance on me facing my weapon obviously has made up thier mind to do me grave bodily harm, or they would be turning tail, so they get one COM, then I transition to the next closes target. Continue until no one else is advancing or the gun and spare mag are empty.
If that happened to me here in OK, forget about warning shots. The only warning they get is me drawing. If they decide to keep coming I open up. I generally carry 21 rounds, including my spare mag. If there's 15-20 hoodlums I can't afford warning shots.
WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements and assertions contained herein may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm.
Same here but I would add in a verbal warning as well. The problem with something like this is that once you figure out you're in trouble they are already too close. I would draw, shout "stop get back" (or similar) and a second later the fight would be on. Hopefully clipping the first couple BGs would make the others run away.I would draw, this is their only warning. They keep coming I begin firing
My name is Frogman46 and I'm tougher than you.
Having been in a few of these situations, I would say determining the best course of action is the difficult part. Details, such as distance lighting, numbers will all effect the decision process.
Given the circumstances to allow it, I prefer drawing and warning. If it is successful, it provides the least post incident hassle. The difficult part is the communications. Communicating in such a way that they believe that you will shoot/kill attackers until you are out of bullets, if they persist. If you can break their will in this manner they will falter and break.
The second option, of just shooting, may be required under certain circumstances. After a few go down, I don't believe that the rest will maintain interest in the attack.
If it is sudden, it may require time and physical interaction to get you weapon into play.
The potential for significant GBI, from broken bones, to injured internal organs, to brain damage and paralysis, is great, in addition to death.
I had three co-workers turn a mob in excess of five hundred, skipping buckshot.
"I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".
Three warning shots are fine as long as they are all COM. Not bouncing off the ground where you have no idea of the backstop.
Ammo is like chewing gum, if you didn't bring enough for everyone, then don't bring it out.
This is a good case for OC on the off side with firearm on the strong. A buffet for the bad guys.
I'm really glad to see that all those tough Chicago gun laws are preventing crime (sarcasm off).
"First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand."
Edge of Darkness
I remember the CSI TV show doing a episode on such a subject. Entitled "Fanny Smackin" ( CSI Files - Fannysmackin' ), where there were several attacks by college-aged youths coordinating their smack-downs of innocents & tourists via text message. The CSI lab tech named Greg Sanders ends up witnessing such an attack & when threatened, he ends up running down one of the perps, only to get his butt kicked for his trouble...but he ends up saving the original victim through his actions.
Situational awareness would have to be heightened if one were to see a group milling about, & a decision as to whether or not you put yourself into it would need to be made. If you were to end up in the middle of it without warning, then drawing & issuing commands - & possibly using your firearm to defend yourself - would be the best option. A few well placed shots (at various points of center mass) may be your best hope.
"Historical examination of the right to bear arms, from English antecedents to the drafting of the Second Amendment, bears proof that the right to bear arms has consistently been, and should still be, construed as an individual right." -- U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings, Re: U.S. vs Emerson (1999)


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Home › Forums › Gear Forums › Gear (General) › Helix Ice Ax
Feb 1, 2006 at 1:02 pm #1217677
Kevin SawchukBPL Member
@ksawchukLocale: Northern California
The new Helix ice ax has an appealing weight. I would love to buy one. However from Ryan's comments it seems that the only thing you can use it for is as a walking stick and chopping steps. It specifically excludes the usual self-arrest method as an approved use. This would make it a pretty decoration but not a functional tool.
I certainly understand that it is not UIAA certified and that BPL needs to "CYA". I'd like to get some data about how well the head stays on with axial forces, how much force you can apply to the shaft while trying to get the pick to stick into snow (lateral force on the shaft) without it failing–either from head detachment or carbon shaft failure. This would help all of us who carry an ice ax for general mountaineering (not ice climbing) understand its place.Feb 1, 2006 at 1:10 pm #1349680
larry savageMember
@pyeyoLocale: pacific northwest
I've got the same questions, maybe a few of us like minded souls could chip in ten bucks and destroy one. How about it RJ…Feb 1, 2006 at 2:25 pm #1349685
Ryan JordanAdmin
@ryanLocale: Rocky Mountains
My comments about the axe are there as a liability disclaimer, not to discourage ultralighters who really get it from using it.
I climbed a 50 degree 1,600′ long snow and alpine ice couloir with a pair a few weeks ago. I really wrenched on them. The consequences of a fall were somewhat serious. Which of course means nothing and would mean less if one broke.
I've self arrested on mine a ton in forgiving conditions and haven't broke one yet. I sacrificed one by camming the head in a rock crack and pulling on the shaft. It broke catastrophically in the shaft below the head, but with a LOT of force. I needed to kick the shaft with my boot to do it. I don't expect to put that much stress on these tools in normal self arrest situations.
"They are not certified as climbing tools and therefore cannot recommend them for any activity where the consequences of a fall and/or failure of the tool will result in mild injury, severe injury, death, or emotional stress…"Feb 2, 2006 at 2:02 pm #1349763
larry savageMember
@pyeyoLocale: pacific northwest
Thanks Ryan…A friend asked me to participate in race doing the ski leg this spring, tele gear is not allowed so I took my alpine skiis down for a tune-up, the disclaimer I had to sign when I picked them up would make an ambulance chaser blush, I understand the need for disclaimers every manufacturer and retailer has been litigated to death over risk sports. Thanks again.Feb 21, 2006 at 6:40 am #1350923
Tony BurnettMember
@tlbj6142Locale: OH--IO
I see that ULA is no longer calling it an Ice Ax. Its now a potty Trowel. Read the description, its quite funny.Feb 21, 2006 at 1:08 pm #1350948
Dane FliednerMember
@dfliednerLocale: North Texas
Finally! After searching for years for my UL potty trowel (digging with hiking poles and sticks is such a chore), ULA has come to the rescue. Also, it will look beautiful on my P-2. Can hardly wait to order!!!Mar 28, 2006 at 8:38 am #1353623
Bob BankheadBPL Member
@wandering_bobLocale: Oregon, USA
and a great way to avoid any potential legal hassels if someone has an unfortunate experience whilst trying to use it for something else.
Wandering BobMay 28, 2006 at 12:21 pm #1357072
Ben WaldMember
Earlier in this thread R Jordan described his testing of the Helix axe for self-arrest.
Based on those results, I think I'd be comfortable using the Helix for cutting steps, and also for SELF-ARREST with the following provisos:
-axe undamaged (mainly an issue for the shaft).
-chances of needing to self-arrest very low.
-no rope carried on the trip (no crevasse rescue, no use of the axe as a rope anchor).
-slope angle low to moderate.
-no hard ice (aluminum head unsuitable)
-not many rocks in the snow (could shatter the shaft).
-combined weight of person plus backpack not too large.
Self-arrest is (hopefully) a rare event. A much more frequent use is self-belay, where the spike is plunged as far as possible into the snow and one grabs the shaft or head of the axe. Self-belay is frequently employed to gain stability when traversing or ascending a steep slope, and it is also used to arrest a slip, hopefully obviating the need for self-arrest.
I'm not sure whether the Helix would be suitable for self-belay:
– Is the shaft strong enough? Self-belay stresses the carbon-fiber shaft, in contrast to self-arrest where all the stress passes through the aluminum head.
– Is the shaft wide enough? The buried shaft of the Helix will provide less resistance than a regular axe because the Helix's shaft has a narrower cross-section. The amount of resistance is crucial to self-belay.
At present there is almost no data available on the strength of the carbon fiber shaft under the forces that arise during self-belay. That's in stark contrast to trekking poles, where Luxury Lite, Titanium Goat, Bozeman Mountain Works and Gossamer Gear all provide detailed information about the strengths and weaknesses of their poles, including data from destructive testing. That data indicates that the Luxury Lite and Ti Goat poles are the strongest, while the Gossamer Gear poles are the lightest. Is the strength of the Helix shaft comparable to a Gossamer Gear shaft, a Luxury Lite shaft, or stronger than all of the above? Surely it is more important to provide data for an ice axe than for trekking poles!May 28, 2006 at 2:43 pm #1357081
You are right…surely it is important to provide data for an ice axe. But for a Potty Trowel? Seems a bit excessive to me.
Obviously the product has limitations. If I was ULA I'd keep from listing the specs you ask for, for that very reason. Numbers give people a false sense of security. Unfair comparisons are made, expectations are set. In the field numbers have no tangible use. If it causes you concern or frightens you, don't buy it. Use what gives you the sense of safety you require to travel confidently in the backcountry.May 28, 2006 at 4:28 pm #1357083
Ben WaldMember
Anonymous, your point that "numbers give people a false sense of security" is well taken. That's especially true for carbon fiber, since it could develop cracks and weaken over time. Indeed it would an idea to add a cautionary note to the Helix webpage mentioning that the strength of a carbon fiber shaft may be compromised if it is thumped or bumped. But since carbon fiber comes in many different strengths, it is difficult to assess the limitations of the Helix without some data regarding the strength of the shaft. At one end of the scale are the ultralight shafts used in Gossamer Gear poles, which would likely snap if subjected to the force of a self-arrest. At the other end of the scale are carbon fiber shafts used in some technical ice-climbing axes, which can presumably withstand the rigors of iceclimbing. R Jordan has already supplied some qualitative data concerning the performance of the Helix for self-arrest, and I think it would be informative to supplement this with some self-belay tests.May 30, 2006 at 2:52 pm #1357179
Anonymous, your point that "numbers give people a false sense of security" is well taken. That's especially true for …, since it could develop cracks and weaken over time. Indeed it would an idea to add a cautionary note to the …, mentioning that the strength of a … shaft may be compromised if it is thumped or bumped. But since … comes in many different strengths, it is difficult to assess the limitations of the … without some data regarding the strength of the shaft. At one end of the scale are the ultralight shafts …, which would likely snap if subjected to the force of a self- … ! At the other end of the scale are … shafts used in some technical …, which can presumably withstand the rigors of … ! R Jordan has already supplied some qualitative data concerning the performance of … for self- …, and I think it would be informative to supplement this with some self- … tests.May 30, 2006 at 4:11 pm #1357187
Jordan HurderMember
@jordanhurderLocale: Southern California
Okay, I don't get it.May 30, 2006 at 4:23 pm #1357189
paul johnsonMember
@pjLocale: LazyBoy in my Den - miss the forest
I needed to read it a second time slowly. It's an edited post, eliminating references to product name, materials, uses, etc. Has something to do with legal issues and not endorsing its use for some applications????
At least, that's my take on it.Dec 2, 2010 at 9:43 pm #1670355
I know this is an old thread but I used one on the PCT. It broke while I was chopping snow to melt for drinking water. It's an incredibly weak tool, and should not be relied upon for self arrest, that's for sure.Dec 2, 2010 at 10:43 pm #1670364
. .BPL Member
@biointegraLocale: Puget Sound
Where did it break – mid shaft? May have been due to subtle, yet terminal damage that began with a previously shrugged impact. Carbon fiber shafts, kind of like a lightweight helmet, probably needs to be retired from serious use after an appropriate impact and do need to 'babied' more than AL, Steel, or Ti.Dec 2, 2010 at 10:45 pm #1670365
eric chanBPL Member
they test and certify ice axes for a reason …
now whether you want to risk using one that isnt at least B rated is up to you, but it is your life on the line … the time you need to actually self arrest is the time you dont want it to fail
you can get a 200g camp corsa ice axe these days …Dec 3, 2010 at 5:53 pm #1670618
Steven EvansBPL Member
@steve_evansLocale: Canada
Hi Bruce,
I'd be interested in some more information regarding the break aswell. Do you still have the axe? It would be great to see some pics.Dec 4, 2010 at 12:02 am #1670728
Eric BlumensaadtBPL Member
@danepackerLocale: Mojave Desert
Mebbe yu'ns need a Ti ice axe/piolet. Light as strong as steel and as 'spensive as a Ferrari gas cap.Dec 5, 2010 at 11:27 pm #1671271
As you can see it broke where the head attaches to the shaft. Look how thin that aluminum is! I used Titanium Goat AGP (carbon) Poles the whole PCT and never broke one. This "Potty Trowel" broke right off the bat. At least one other hiker showed me that the head of his Helix was loose already, even before he hit the Sierras.
Seems like a great weight savings, until you need it for a self arrest. Then it might work. Or it might break in half.Dec 5, 2010 at 11:33 pm #1671272
eric chanBPL Member
thats scary … gear used for climbing should not fail if used properly
of course this isn't climbing gear …
thanks for postingDec 6, 2010 at 12:31 am #1671282
Bob GrossMember
@b-g-2-2Locale: Silicon Valley
You know, it would be interesting to have that ice axe analyzed to determine the cause for failure. It might have been a design defect, a manufacturing defect, a metal fatigue failure, damage after purchase, or damage after purchase that was caused by user error.
Oh, well, I guess it won't be fixed by a little duct tape.
I am the owner of two wood-shafted ice axes (30 years old) that are still perfect and hanging up in my garage. All I have to worry about are termites.
–B.G.–Dec 6, 2010 at 1:00 am #1671284
Roger CaffinModerator
@rcaffinLocale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Hi Bob
> I am the owner of two wood-shafted ice axes (30 years old) that are still perfect
> and hanging up in my garage.
My two (circa late 60s) are hanging up in the cupboard. And the steel edges are still dangerously SHARP! I imagine yours are too?
CheersDec 6, 2010 at 12:27 pm #1671417
An ice axe should be able to safely ride on someone's pack without being fatally damaged. Chopping snow should not cause failure. The photo shows an obvious weak point. Perhaps there was some error in the manufacturing of this particular axe, but regardless, the margin of error is mighty thin with this design. It looks like the Helix is no longer being manufactured, and I think there's likely a good reason for that.
The Camp Corsa I bought to replace it has already made 2 trips through the Sierras, and I'm confident it could make the trip many more times. A much more sensible trade-off in weight/safety for a backpacking "just-in-case" ice axe.
Helix: About 5 oz
Camp Corsa: About 7.5 oz
ULA did promptly refund my money. The Helix is a bad piece of gear (formerly?) made by a good company.Dec 6, 2010 at 12:33 pm #1671420
Bob GrossMember
@b-g-2-2Locale: Silicon Valley
"My two (circa late 60s) are hanging up in the cupboard. And the steel edges are still dangerously SHARP! I imagine yours are too?"
The pick points are sharp enough to penetrate heavy wool trousers. I can attest to that.
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|Phil Kessel says he doesn't want to 'stick it to' Bruins
|10.28.10 at 12:27 pm ET
Former Bruins fifth overall pick Phil Kessel spoke with the media Thursday as he and the Maple Leafs prepare to take on the B's at TD Garden. Kessel was traded to the Leafs for a package of draft picks (one of which was spent on Tyler Seguin) and went without a goal in six games against his former club last season.
"I don't want to stick it to them, I want to obviously play well," Kessel said. "Last year I had a lot of chances, I just didn't score. Hopefully I can change it this year and the most important thing is just getting wins.
"They're a good team over there, so it's not easy to score against them anyways," he added. Kessel noted that he isn't concerned with the reaction given to him by the crowd, who he said can "do whatever they want."
The Bruins were unable to strike a long-term deal with Kessel prior to the trade, but the way things ended in Boston won't change the 23-year-old's view of the city and his experience.
"I loved it here," Kessel said. "They city was great to me, the fans were great to me. I loved playing here and I had great teammates here. Obviously, it didn't work out, but that happens."
Seguin and Kessel met over the summer in Atlantic City for a Bauer promotion they were doing, with Seguin saying Wednesday that the two discussed the cities of Boston and Toronto. Kessel gave Seguin pointers on local dining and other goings on. One topic that was not brought up, as noted by Kessel on Thursday, was that the two will likely be linked to one another for their entire careers because of the trade, which also sent a 2010 second-rounder and a 2011 first-rounder to the B's.
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If the former 36-goal-scorer truly believes that it isn't a big deal, he'll be in for a surprise when Seguin-mania meets Kessel-mania for those on hand at the Garden Thursday night. Kessel has seven goals on the season, good for third-best in the NHL.
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|Video: Claude Julien discusses Marco Sturm, Marc Savard, Jordan Caron
|10.26.10 at 2:05 pm ET
WILMINGTON — Here's the video of Bruins coach Claude Julien talking to the media following the Bruins' practice. He comments on Marco Sturm, who returned to the ice to skate by himself on Tuesday, saying that there is no set return date for the rehabbing winger.
|Even when injured, Marco Sturm's impact felt by Bruins
|at 1:36 pm ET
WILMINGTON — Marco Sturm hasn't had the best of luck when it comes to health. Major injuries to each of his knees have cost him playing time over the last two seasons, the most recent of which has landed him on long-term injured reserve to open the 2010-11 campaign as he works his way back from a torn ACL and MCL in his right knee.
At face value, the Bruins received some positive news on Tuesday when Sturm did some light skating on his own prior to the team's practice. Sturm took shots on an empty net by himself, saying that though he felt weak on the ice, he was encouraged by the session. Though Claude Julien said there is no timetable for Sturm's return and the winger himself admitted it would be "tough" to return by late November, as initially expected, his captain noted that Sturm doesn't need to be in the lineup for the B's to feel his positive impact.
An upbeat Sturm could be seen around the Bruins throughout preseason and on the team's season-opening trip to Europe, and despite not being able to take part in workouts or on-ice sessions with the team, he's kept a grin on his face and the attitude of a guy who's getting 20 minutes a night.
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It's only natural that a player spending an extended period of time off of the ice and out of the lineup could get the sense of not being quite involved with the team as he normally is. Given the team's dynamic, however, Sturm said one would be hard-pressed to find that with this Bruins' club.
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It's no surprise that Chara agrees with Sturm's assessment, whiling also noting that involvement that Sturm and the other players have made a point to maintain hasn't gone unnoticed.
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WILMINGTON — Marco Sturm could be spotted doing some light skating and shooting around Ristuccia Arena as he works to return from a torn ACL and MCL suffered during last years' playoff series. As teammates joined him on the ice, so too did Marc Savard.
Sturm, who led the Bruins in scoring last year, wasn't getting in the hardest of workouts, doing more of this-and-that than anything substantial, but his return to the ice is undoubtedly a good sign for the Bruins as they look to overcome the injuries of Sturm, Savard, and Johnny Boychuk.
David Krejci was also on the ice as the first handful of players skated out. Krejci missed practice on Monday after getting his wisdom teeth removed. The rest of the team is set to take the ice at 11:00 am. After Sturm left the ice, the small group of Bruins consisted of Krejci, Savard, Brian McGrattan, Adam McQuaid, and Daniel Paille taking shots on Tim Thomas and Tuukka Rask.
Here's video of Sturm skating:
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|10.25.10 at 11:14 pm ET
According to a tweet from CTV's Arpon Basu, Bruins general manager Peter Chiarelli was in Montreal Monday night taking in the Canadiens' 3-2 overtime victory over the Coyotes. Basu notes that in addition to Chiarelli, there were 21 scouts from around the league at the game.
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"I'm obviously feeling better because I'm out skating," Savard told McDonald. "That's good news, but I'm still definitely not 100 percent. I still have some issues, but a lot of them aren't from the injury. My head isn't screwed up after I work out right now. Obviously, there are other ongoing issues."
The other ongoing issues to which Savard refers presumably includes depression, which is among the non-physical symptoms of PCS. Savard told McDonald that he would rather not comment on whatever depression he may be experiencing, calling it "the toughest thing to talk about."
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Savard also told McDonald that he appreciated the kind words from Sabres goaltender Ryan Miller, who called him "one of the best playmakers" in the game and said that he couldn't play because of Cooke's "stupid, smartass hit."
Given that Savard is on long-term injured reserve, he cannot play in the first 10 games of the season, and a timetable for his return remains unknown.
|Report: Savard passes exertion test
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It appears that Marc Savard can start down the road of getting into playing shape for this season, as Peter Chiarelli recently told Fluto Shinzawa of the Boston Globe that the center has passed the exertion test that he failed on the first day of training camp back on September 17.
Savard has been dealing with post-concussion syndrome symptoms since late in the summer, when the effects of the March 7 Matt Cooke hit prevented him from continuing his training.
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Lucy: please....Mature
It's been almost a week since I'd finally come out of my coma and then there had been the trouble with Oval and the babies, but they were born without a hitch and I loved the two of them dearly.
Maple is walking around with a worried expression on her face these days, constantly looking over her shoulder, and now Penny has done a runner. Life is never going to be simple is it?
Oh Penny what are you doing?
I walk to the window and stare out into the garden. "Luce." His arms snake around me and I feel his breath against my ear. "We need you to try."
"But..." I feel my eyes fill up with tears and rest my head against the window. "I... I can't."
He sighs and I shiver and stare at the ground. "Lucy. Look at me." I ignore him and stay standing with my back to him, my eyes fixed firmly on the floor. "Luce please." He begs and I can't take it anymore. My knees buckle and he catches me as I fall to the floor in despair.
"Lucy please! My brother is going to die without her."
I close my eyes and rest my head against his chest. "I can't go back there Roman. I can't go back."
"It's ok baby, I won't let you. I promise."
I take a deep breath and open my eyes, looking up into his red ones.
"Ok. I'll try." I whisper and I feel his body sag in relief.
"Thank you." he murmurs into my hair and I squeeze my eyes shut again as I cling to him, hoping he doesn't see the terror in them.
I haven't used my powers since I woke up. They're almost too strong for me.