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There's this ongoing argument in the blogosphere on the issue of the "importance of Cohesion in SOA". Cohesion and Coupling are two features that should be present in good software. The paradox is that they're opposite forces and a balance between them has to be made. The ongoing argument is that SOA tends to lean towards loose coupling and therefore cohesion must take a back seat. What both surprises me and keeps me equally disgusted is the fact that SOA practitioners can't even get a handle on this basic concept.
Steve Vinoski wrote a survey paper in 2005 about Cohesion and Coupling. The paper revisits the concepts of coupling and cohesion that were introduced with structured programming. In other words, pre-object orientation. He concludes in his paper:
Given that transitions to xe2x80x9cnewxe2x80x9d
computing styles are often accompanied
by explicit disapproval of the outgoing
style, itxe2x80x99s no surprise that todayxe2x80x99s
focus on SOA has created a bit of a
backlash against distributed objects.
Whatxe2x80x99s unfortunate is that many of the
measures of quality for distributed
object systems apply equally well to
distributed services and SOA, so itxe2x80x99s a
shame that some feel compelled to
ignore them just to be trendy. But perhaps
it doesnxe2x80x99t matter, because we can
just go back to the days before objects,
dig up measures like coupling and
cohesion, and apply them all over
again xe2x80x94 for the first time, of course.
Reality Check: The world has made a world of progress since the days of Structured Programming and has settled towards Object Orientation. It is therefore imperative that we consult Object Oriented texts to gleam an understanding of what makes for good software. One of the most authoritative books of that time was Bertrand Meyer's "Object-Oriented Software Construction, 2nd edition". The book was published back in 2000, weighing in at 4 lbs and 1,296 pages. In this book, Meyer presents five fundamental requirements that a design method worthy of being called "modular" must satisfy:
- Modular Decomposability – A software construction method satisfies Modular Decomposability if it helps in the task of decomposing a software problem into a small number of less complex subproblems, connected by a simple structure, and independent enough to allow further work to proceed separately on each item.
- Modular Composability – A method satisfies Modular Composability if it favors the products of software elements which may then be freely combined with each other o produce new systems, possibly in an environment quite different from the one in which they were initially developed.
- Modular Understandability – A method favors Modular Understandability if it helps produce software which a human reader can understand each module without having to know the others, or, at worst, by having to examine only a few of the others.
- Modular Continuity – A method satisfies Modular Continuity if, in the software architectures that it yields, a small change in the problem specification will trigger a change of just one module, or a small number of modules.
- Modular Protection – A method satisfied Modular Protection if it yields architectures in which the effect of an abnormal condition occurring at run time in a module will remain confined to that module, or at worst will only propagate to a few neighboring modules.
Certainly a palatable and succinct list of requirements to guide the makings of good modular software. I certainly like lists like this where each point not only self contained but orthogonal to the other points. Coupling and Cohesion are not the primary goals, rather the goal is to achieve modularity and Coupling and Cohesion are just artifacts of Modularity. Cohension in particular simply boils down to our ability to understand the inner workings of a module. In the context of SOA which concerns itself with inter-module interconnectivity, Cohesion's intra-module concerns plays very little importance.
However, what's extremely disturbing is that SOA practitioners seem to be rediscovering tried and true principles of software design. Contrast Bertrand Meyer's Requirements for Modularity (the 1st edition was circa 1997) with Thomas Erl's recently published SOA principles (circa 2007):
- Loose Coupling – Service contracts impose low consumer coupling requirements and are themselves decoupled from their surrounding environment.
- Abstraction – Service contracts only contain essential information and information about services is limited to what is published in service contracts.
- Reusability – Services contain and express agnostic logic and can be positioned as reusable enterprise resources.
- Autonomy – Services exercise a high level of control over their underlying runtime execution environment.
- Statelessness – Services minimize resource consumption by deferring the management of state information when necessary.
- Discoverability – Services are supplemented with communicative meta data by which they can be effectively discovered and interpreted..
- Composability – Services are effective composition participants, regardless of the size and complexity of the composition.
IMHO, this ia a terrible set of principles because they are overlapping concerns. For instance, how is Composability different from Reusability? To illustrate this overlapping, just perform a rough mapping of these principles to the Meyer's Moudularity. We thus get
Loose Coupling maps to Decomposability, Protection and Continuity. Abstraction maps to Understandability. Reusability maps to Decomposability, Undestandability and Composability. Autonomy maps to Protection. Finally, Composability maps, to well, Composability. What's depressing is that in 10 years of innovation (i.e. 1997 to 2007), SOA practitioners have added only Statelessness and Discoverability in to the mix?
To be completely fair, there are other SOA practitioners that do lend some more depth (or meat?) into the SOA discourse. One would expect book authors like Webber and Erl would have a more indepth grasp of the subject, unfortunately that's not the case.
Don Box may have written the first set1 of Four SOA Design Tenets in 2004:
Tenet 1: Boundaries are Explicit
Tenet 2: Services Are Autonomous
Tenet 3: Services share schema and contract, not class
Tenet 4: Service compatibility is based upon policy
This was extended by Stefan Tilkov in his Ten Principles of SOA :
- Explicit Boundaries*
- Shared Contract and Schema not Class*
- Policy Driven*
- Autonomous*
- Wire Formats not APIs
- Document Oriented
- Loosely Coupled
- Standards Compliant
- Vendor Independent
- Metadata-driven
With any new computing style, I'm always on the look out as to what differentiates it from a pre-existing style. Tilkov's principles in my opinion has more meat than Erl's principles. However, I quest whether Loosely Coupled is a SOA principle or the entire essence of SOA. See, Wire Formats, Document Orientedness and Metadata driven are all a consequence of Loose Coupling. The same can be said of Don Box's original tenets. Not to be out done, David Orchard has his own SOA principles that goes like this:
- Trade-off Principle: SOA deployment is a trade-off between properties of interest.
- Defined message format Principle: Services have well defined message formats.
- Interface Principle: Services have described interfaces.
- Interface Fidelity Principle: The richness of the interface description relates directly to the amount of coupling.
- Composite Behavior Principle: The actual behavior is the sum of all the behaviors in the software.
- Distributed Principle: Services should be designed for existence in a widely distributed and heterogeneous computing environment.
- Decentralization Principle: Services should be designed and planned for decentralized administration
- WS-* Technique: Services should make appropriate use of Web services specifications such as SOAP
- State Technique: State location and management
- Coarse Grained Technique: Coarse grained interfaces
- Asynchronous Technique: use Asynchrony.
David Orchard's list shows better balance, of course I do have to question the WS-* inclusion. Now if I could therefore come up with an aggregation of SOA principles that is formulated by extending Meyer's Modularity principles and adding my definition of Services, it would then look like this:
- Decomposability – A method satisfies Decomposability if it helps in the task of decomposing a software problem into a small number of less complex subproblems, connected by a simple structure, and independent enough to allow further work to proceed independently on each item.
- Composability – A method satisfies Composability if it favors the products of software elements which may then be freely combined with each other and produce new systems, possibly in an environment quite different from the one in which they were initially developed.
- Understandability – A method favors Understandability if it helps produce software which a human reader can understand each module without having to know the others, or, at worst, by having to examine only a few of the others.
- Continuity – A method satisfies Continuity if, in the software architectures that it yields, a small change in the problem specification will trigger a change of just one module, or a small number of modules.
- Protection – A method satisfies Protection if it yields architectures in which the effect of an abnormal condition occurring at run time in a module will remain confined to that module, or at worst will only propagate to a few neighboring modules.
- Introspection – A method satisfies Introspection if it yields architectures that support a mechanism that enables the structure of modules and the structure of their communication to be queried and examined at runtime.
- Remoteability – A method satisfies Remoteability if it yields architectures that support a mechanism that enables module communication by other modules that are hosted in separate physical environments.
- Asynchronicity – A method satisfies Asynchronicity if it yields architectures that does not assume an immediate response from a module invocation. In other words, it assumes that latency exists in either the network or the invoked module.
- Document Orientedness – A method satisfies Document Orientedness if it yields architectures where the messages of inter module to module communication are explicitly defined, shared and that there is no implicit state sharing between invocations.
- Standardized Protocol Envelope2 – A method satisfies a Standard Protocol Envelope if it yields an architecture that requires the sharing of a common Envelope message format across all module communications.
- Decentralized Administration – A method satisfies Decentralized Administration if it yields an architecture that does not require a single administrator for all modules.
The ideas of yesteryear continue to be relevant today. What we must do it clearly identify what is truly new rather than regurgitating old practices disguised as new ideas. This new set of SOA principle builds from what exists and extends it to the distributed and decentralized environments. That is, the derivation begins with Meyer's modularity principles. To that I've required support for component model in the Introspection requirement (note: Discoverability follows from this). Then I've required distributed computing while applying Deutsch's fallacies (see: Remoteability, Document Orientedness, Asyncrhonicity and Decentralized Administration).
Now it is important to realize that there's a vast gulf between a set of principles and how to effectively using it in practice (see: "SOA Salavation"). The primary goal of SOA is to provide more agile IT infrastructure. Even with the above SOA principles laid out, I have difficulty seeing how this helps achieve greater agility. There is a big social engineering aspect that seems to be required to achieve SOA success. Just as Web 1.0 evolved into Web 2.0 via virtue of systems that encourage participation, SOA will need to evolve to SOA 2.0. That is, a SOA architecture that does encourage participation.
Now regarding that all encompassing term of "Loose Coupling", one could essentially derive many of the above properties from it! To summarize, SOA is all and nothing but Loosely Coupled APIs.
1. My own definition of services was published in 2003.
2. Note that the "Standardized Protocol Envelope" is in contradiction with Peter Deutsch's "8 Fallacies of Distributed Computing".


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For those who've got their eye on a Montréal getaway, we couldn't have better news: in this city, you can live large on very little. Get the most out of la belle ville—and your dollar—with these hot tips on cool deals. Where to stay With so many affordable hotel options available, you can tailor your accommodations to fit your exact needs. Yearning for a poutine fix over a long weekend? Check out The Sweet Deal package, where participating hotels offer the third night's stay at 50% and you're hooked up with a booklet full of exclusive citywide deals. For those on a family vacation, check out The Family Deal which offers savings specific to children under 12 (and don't miss checking the attractions they can get into for free). If you're traveling in a big group, try the apartment stay experience of Like a Hotel, where you can live like locals and pull a divide-and-conquer on the cost. Flown in and renting a car? Take a look at deals to be found at hotels near the airport; downtown is a mere 20-minute drive away. Student or solo travellers looking for a more social sojourn should try one of Montréal's youth hostels or residences,… / Read More →
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Where to Stay for Cheap in Montreal
A traveler or tourist doesn't have to spend a lot of money to be in the heart of all the Montreal action. Many budget friendly hotels, hostels, lofts and bed and breakfasts in Montreal are centrally located downtown with easy access to the metro system; so exploring all corners of the city is super easy. So for individuals, couples and families who would rather spend their dollars eating, shopping, and doing activities in our beautiful city, then consider the following places to stay…

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Vancouver Company Unearths HUGE Diamond
CP | The Canadian Press | Posted 11.19.2016 | Canada Business
Read More: Diamonds, Lucara Diamond Corp, Diamond Botswana, Worlds Largest Diamond, African Diamonds, Business Video, Canada Business News
Lucara Diamond Corp. says it has found one of the world's largest gem quality diamonds at its Karowe Mine in Botswana.
Are you planning to propose, but haven't found quite the right diamond? Well, get out your chequebooks, folks -- because the world's most insanely ...


text:
Nearly everyone involved with education and the arts agrees that putting artists together with schoolchildren, as early as possible, is a great idea.
Doing so exposes kids to a wider world of culture at an early age, and fosters creativity and imagination in young minds.
Difficulties may arise, however, when many artists live for their art, and in an expensive city like Key West, they can't always afford to donate chunks of their time to the schools - or as much as they'd like to, anyway.
Enter the Artists in Schools grant.
This decade-old program, administered by the Florida Keys Council of the Arts, allows artists working in a variety of media to bring their talents directly to students in their schools - and still get paid for their services.
"The mission of the Arts Council is to support artists," said Florida Keys Council of the Arts Executive Director Liz Young. "And we enjoy a great relationship with Monroe County schools. Artists in Schools touches on all genres, such as literary, performing and visual arts. The teachers really love having the program, and we love supporting the artists, and making connections with people."
It seems like a match made in heaven, both for the school kids and their teachers, and the artists who apply for, and receive, Artists in Schools grants.
Quilting at Gerald Adams
Key West quilter Margo Ellis is in a somewhat uncommon position, as far as the AIS program goes, in that she earns her living teaching K-8 students full-time at Gerald Adams Elementary School. For 16 years, Ellis has toiled at the Stock Island school, occasionally paying for her own art supplies, as needed, in order to bring a little creative sunshine into her students' lives.
"It's a reward for good behavior," Ellis said.
For the past five years, however, Ellis has received a little help, in the form of $1,000 annual grants from AIS.
With this extra money, she's been able to purchase another sewing machine, and buy the supplies that have enabled her to get her kids working on seasonal projects, such as Halloween costumes, Santa hats, and Mothers' Day pillows.
She was even able to enter some of her students' creations in a "School blocks"-themed contest at the National QuiltMuseum, in Paducah, Ky.
Gerald Adams didn't win, but the pupils' quilt squares, funded with AIS grant-purchased material, were displayed at the museum after the contest, a real thrill for the kids.
"For them, it's a chance to work with multiple modalities," Ellis said. "Many of these kids have never made anything except with paper, and with this program, instead of looking at a book, they get to work with their hands, and create something that lasts. I've had past students tell me, 'I still have that pillow we made three years ago; it's still on my mom's bed.' It becomes something permanent in their lives that they can enjoy."
Documentary film in Islamorada
At the other end of the county, history enthusiast Ron Levy has found in an AIS grant a means to fulfill his dream of documenting the history of Islamorada.
A board member of the non-profit Islamorada Community Entertainment, Levy applied for and received an AIS grant for $1,000, to help pay for the services of New York City filmmakers Nancy and David Novack.
Last November, the couple was flown to the Keys to participate in an intense, two-day workshop with students from Coral Shores High School, video teacher Michele Thiery and history teacher Melissa Welch. Islamorada Community Entertainment picked up the balance of the tab for the couple's trip to the Keys.
"It was an ambitious undertaking," Levy said of the workshop. "It got rave reviews from Mrs. Thiery, and left her students with the skills necessary to finish the documentary. It's going to be done in chapters. Right now the kids are still finishing the editing and the soundtrack."
Levy expects the finished product to debut in the auditorium of CSHS, and then, hopefully, be shown at venues up and down the island chain.
In addition to the skills of researching, interviewing, filming and editing, which the students picked up from the workshop, Nancy and David Novack said the students learned a few intangibles, as well, such as "working together in cooperative teams; a deeper understanding of possible career trajectories in history, archive sciences, or film/video production; intergenerational communication, (especially with regard to meeting and interviewing several octogenarians from the Islamorada community); a deeper understanding of students' own connectedness to their community and geography, through the prism of historical continuity; and the benefits of giving back to the community with art."
Levy, whose motivation for the project was "memorializing the history of this very special area, before it's all lost, as people from the founding families pass on," is bullish on AIS.
"It's a great program," Levy said. "It gives kids in our community a chance to experience things they wouldn't usually."
Other endeavors
Additional participants in the AIS program include Robin Kaplan, who teaches exceptional music students at Sigsbee Charter School, and Lucy Carleton, who is currently teaching dancing to fourth- and fifth-graders, at Glynn Archer Elementary School.
Carleton's "Dancing Classrooms" culminating demonstration takes place at 1:30 p.m. Friday at the school.
Another dance-related project is new this year.
Kyla Piscopink's Key West Contemporary Dance Co. has won a $500 grant to bring "Dance Me a Story" to Cameron Murray's Key West High School English class this spring, where the troupe will choreograph and perform movements inspired by the literary works the pupils are studying.
"The concept of 'Dance Me a Story' is to begin an ongoing integration of dance into the literature and arts program at the high school," a KWCDC email blast states. "'Dance Me A Story' strives to help students broaden their communication and performance skills, inspire creativity through movement, and ultimately boost self-confidence."
Another grant recipient, the Key West Fringe Theater, recently brought live performances of Shakespeare to several Middle Keys schools, Young said.
"[Fringe] really brought Shakespeare to life," Young said. "Instead of just having the kids read his plays, we had actors come in and perform scenes. It was a wonderful experience for them."
Young stressed that while the visiting artists are the ones receiving the grant money, the school teachers are integral to the program.
"It's a collaboration between the teaching artist and the classroom teachers, so that the students understand that the art is the vehicle being used to enhance the learning," she said. "You never know when you're going to touch a kid . . . When a child hears a trumpet for the first time, or sees Shakespeare done aloud, who knows where it will lead?"
For more information on the Artists in Schools grant, visit http://www.keysarts.com/grants_more/AIS-grant.html


text:
Starting a family is a major step. With a growing family, your goals and priorities can change quickly. While you could earn and spend your money as you'd like before, you now have to make sure that your family's needs are met first.
Successful financial planning for your new family needs to be flexible and evolve with your life. But it's essential to have a solid grip on your finances and to follow best practices to ensure a comfortable and financially secure life for your family. Whether you're planning for your first or your fifth, take time to budget for your growing family—that includes planning for college expenses, considering tax implications and insuring your collective future.
Ramp up savings and reallocate spending to cover the jump in food and clothing costs, as well as new expenses such as diapers and child care.
Look at your current health insurance arrangements and understand your coverage options for childbirth. Update them accordingly and budget for anything that won't be covered. Revisit your life insurance policies, wills and retirement plans to update your beneficiaries. If you haven't already set up these documents, now is the time to do that.
Does your employer offer maternity or paternity leave? Determine what you can afford to take and understand that you may have to make some tough choices about when you return. Weigh the options when it comes to child care as well, including how feasible it is for one parent to stay at home with
the child.
In addition to managing your own finances, set aside funds so that your child has money of their own to learn responsible money management as they grow.
Consider opening an account like our Basic Savings or SaveFirst accounts in your child's name to start saving birthday money and other gifts for your child. As your child and their savings grow, take the time to teach them responsible money habits, setting the foundation for a solid financial future.
Custodial Accounts, which are another good option, administer gift money to a child with potential tax savings. These accounts allow you to choose the age at which the child can access the money, typically 18 or 21. Then, if the child is eligible or already a Navy Federal member, the account can be transferred into their name.
You can build up their savings with one of our certificate options. Certificates start with a deposit, which accrues interest during the term of the certificate. Our EasyStart℠ Certificate is an excellent option to get things growing and requires only $100 to start with a 12-month term.
Look ahead to future education expenses with an Education Savings Account (ESA), which offers tax-free savings when the funds are used for education costs. Another option to consider is a 529 Plan, which is a tax-advantaged savings plan exclusively for future college costs. A financial advisor can assist you with setting one up.
Navy Federal Financial Group, our wholly owned subsidiary, has representatives who can help you create a portfolio to build savings for yourself and your children.
Having a child affects your taxes. Take time to familiarize yourself with these tax tips for new parents ahead of time.


text:
Jesus! Forget the people at the Playford, if you believe these comments half of bloody Adelaide is reading this stuff right now. I can't wait and see how many hit me up tomorrow. I guess I've royally screwed myself onto every blacklist in town now.
Can Today Tonight be that far behind? I can't help but hope so. Let's see where all of this ends up.


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AVProductReviews on Prime Elevation
"Adaptable is the term best used to describe SVS's new Prime Elevation speakers. The trapezoidal speakers are flexible enough to be used for a multitude of home theater configurations."
Next Post: Home Theater Shack on Prime Elevation Previous Post: Positive Feedback Magazine - Victor Chavira Reviews the SB-2000
Looking for system optimization tips? Check out these additional articles from SVS.
Introduction to Dolby Atmos | Why go Dual? | The Art of Speaker Placement | Digital Bass Management


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A fashion disaster, fashion victim, fashion faux pas, wearing a regular clothing item in a way that highlights your incompatibility with the selection. Something no person can wear in public without causing alarm to SPCA or PETA. A person who is not able to purchase clothing that fits.
Anything worn by Lady Gaga is a fashtastrophy, anything worn by Cyndi Lauper in 1980's, Don Johnson in Miami Vice, the entire wardrobe of Dallas tv series, Eurotrash. Someone who isnt young or hot trying to get into a nightclub with a small outfit. Anyone who isnt Kylie Minogue wearing her clothing. Anyone who takes fashion advice from Britney spears.
by miroj June 30, 2010


text:
Mildred Panfil
1943 - 1945 — New Guinea and Phillipines
Mildred Panfil is my mother. She enrolled in the Army from Columbus, Ohio. From there she was at Selfridge
AirForce base in Michigan. Was enrolled in Texas at the "Texas Womens University" Enrolled for the air cadet program. Left at a later date to the Phillipines (Manilla). After the Phillipines my mother volunteered to serve in New Guinea. I'm very proud of my mother. It took alot of courage to go to New Guinea. Japs were all over the island and extremely dangerous. From daughter Linda Kadis


text:
Dog adoption and cat adoption saves lives. Adopt a dog or adopt a cat and you'll have a friend for life! Contact us, or contact another local humane society, animal shelter or SPCA.
We do what we do because we believe that all pets deserve a second chance at life.
All Pets are vetted, including Rabies Vac. and will be Spayed/Neutered prior to Adoption.
Why should you adopt?
Dog adoption and cat adoption saves lives. Adopt a dog or adopt a cat and you'll have a friend for life! What is the difference between adopting a dog, adopting a cat, adopting a kitten or adopting a puppy versus getting dogs for sale, cats for sale, puppies for sale or kittens for sale from a dog breeder or a cat breeder? When someone is breeding puppies or breeding kittens, they are creating new dogs and cats who need homes. Some people are interested in a very specific breed of dog, cat, puppy or kitten and they think the only way to find that specific breed is to buy a dog for sale or buy a cat for sale from a puppy breeder or a kitten breeder. Yet animal shelters are filled with dogs and cats who must find homes. So rather than buying a dog or puppy for sale from a dog breeder or buying a cat or kitten for sale from a cat breeder, we encourage people to adopt a dog, adopt a cat, adopt a puppy or adopt a kitten at their local animal shelter, SPCA, humane society or pet rescue group.


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Oh my ......... this is along lines of ''fast and light vs slow and heavy''!!
Velocity and mass are inextricably linked and apart from trajectory variations due to bullet weight the end result is in theory the result of both combined. The moving bullet has by virtue of its velocity a momentum - and the energy within that will be dissipated on impact.
The ''better'' question is full of various opinions and even hype .. and it is doubtful IMO if anyone will ever provide the definitive answer!! It has been thrashed out more times than I can remember.


text:
Free personalized radio that
plays the music you love
Mournin' Variations
Features of This Trackfree jazz influences
lead big band
a tenor sax solo
a trombone solo
interesting part writing
elaborate arrangements
minor tonality
interesting horn arrangements
subtle latin rhythms
and many other similarities identified in the Music Genome Project
These are just a few of the hundreds of attributes cataloged for this track by the Music Genome Project.show more
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text: April Fulton View Slideshow 1 of 2 Doby Photography / NPR View Slideshow 2 of 2 Doby / NPR April Fulton is a former editor with NPR's Science Desk and a contributor to The Salt, NPR's Food Blog. The Martini: This American Cocktail May Have An International Twist By April Fulton • Jun 19, 2013 There's no cocktail more distinctly American than the martini. It's strong, sophisticated and sexy. It's everything we hope to project while ordering one. Baltimore-born satirist H.L. Mencken is said to have called the martini "the only American invention as perfect as the sonnet." But is the martini perfectly American? Maybe not entirely. So in honor of National Martini Day on Wednesday, we decided to dig into the drink's muddled past. Whole Foods Founder John Mackey On Fascism and 'Conscious Capitalism' By April Fulton • Jan 16, 2013 UPDATE at 12:35 p.m., ET, Jan. 17: Many of you wrote in to tell us you were taken aback by Whole Foods top executive John Mackey characterizing the health law as fascism in an NPR interview, and apparently, he's feeling a little sheepish. About three minutes into his otherwise amiable chat with CBS This Morning hosts on on Thursday, Mackey walked back his comments in response to a direct question from Norah O'Donnell: Comfort And Joy: Making The 'Morning Edition' Julia Child Thanksgiving By April Fulton • Nov 21, 2012 Like many of us who consider ourselves food adventurers most of the year, when it comes to Thanksgiving, we just want the turkey and mashed potatoes we grew up with. Well, OK, maybe just a teensy bit better than what we grew up with, but along the same lines.


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SailNet Community (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/)
- herSailNet (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/hersailnet/)
- - What makes a good family cruiser boat? (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/hersailnet/10854-what-makes-good-family-cruiser-boat.html)
What makes a good family cruiser boat?
Hi - I''''m not sure exactly how to phrase my question but here goes. My husband loves to sail and has had quite a few different racing boats, sizes range from 14 ft to 30 ft. I''ve gone along for the ride but am not, and don''t imagine I ever will be (though I could surprise myself someday) be a racer. We have a toddler and a baby on the way soon.
He would like to buy a racer/cruiser and is looking at a few different kinds. He''s interested in what my top priorities are for such a boat. In my head and with no real experience to guide me I think of things like:
1) easy to sail both technically and people-wise
2) comfortable to be down below
3) head with door and shower
4) two or three cabins, enough sleeping room for 6-8 people with some privacy (?)
5) outfitted kitchen, salon, etc.
Again, these are ideals. But what I''d really like to hear are some real life criteria that make a boat good for a family to spend time on. We''re basically talking, at this point, about day sails and weekend overnight type stuff . . . not sailing around the world.
So, tell me, what makes a good racer/cruiser good for a family to hang out on?
What makes a good family cruiser boat?
The specifics of what makes a good family cruiser will vary with the family. When I was a kid, my family of four (my folks, a 12 year old and my 10 year old brother) cruised on a rather compact 25 footer and it worked out well in terms of seeing neat places and spending time together. There were no bells and whistles; entertainment was what ever we could do as a family either ashore or on board with quiet moments reading, sleeping and eating thrown in for punctuation. I don''t ever remembered being bored or unhappy with that.
Today, I think that people expect a lot more out of a boat, comforts that are closer to home. There is no right or wrong answers here and I am not saying one approach is better than the other. All boats are a compromise. Family cruisers bring along thier own set of compromises. Generally, these days the focus of a Family cruiser leans toward a certain amount of room to lounge and carry the kinds of ''toys'' that keep a family amused. Cockpits and main salons tend to be expansive. Often equipped with TV and DVD equipment where we might have kept bookshelves and board games. Galleys tend to be surprisingly well equipped, approaching all of the comforts of home. Sleeping areas tend to be designed look commodious within a tight space and to be comfortable on the anchor rather than under way. Tankage becomes more important as boats get bigger in size and more people are brought along for the ride. Again by way of contrast, when I was a kid water tanks were tiny and all drinking water was hand pumped and carefully used. Today almost the smallest boats have pressure water and so the water tankage has to be quite large.
Unless you are buying a long boat probably well up in the mid-30 foot range, then sailing performance will be seriously compromised by a boat capable of being cruised by 6-8 people in privacy and comfort. When it comes to sailing ability, in the best case a family cruiser is a boat that is simple and easy to handle. The term ''simple'' is a little misleading because it sometimes takes more complicated sail handling gear to make a boat simple to handle. A boat that is long for its weight will tend to be easier to handle and offer a lot more comfort and comes with the side benefit of offering better performance which means more places that you can cruise to within the comfortable sailing range of the boat.
You are basically going to be coastal cruisers so you can tolerate a wider range of build quality.
I know this is vague. Sorry,
What makes a good family cruiser boat?
T, your simple question is deceivingly difficult to answer since a portion of it lies within the nature of your family and what you are seeking from the experience of owning a boat. But there are some criteria worth mentioning that you should or at least could keep in mind as you discuss this more and shop boats to try on your ideas.
1. Two very young children as ''crew'' will mean someone quite often will be required to have the ''Kid Watch''. And I can speak from experience when saying it''s no fun if the same person gets this duty all the time...so for starters, you''ll want a boat that is easily handled - by either of you - and sails without fuss. This may be in conflict with your husband''s desire to have a ''racer/cruiser'' (he may have his eye on racing the boat locally) as such boats often have multiple trimming options that a simple ''family cruiser'' sloop won''t have, and such a boat may be less forgiving when trimming gets less attention by the single crew member who''s also navigating a bit, steering and trimming the sails full-time, and trying to sneak below to fetch a Coke out of the fridge. This may also argue for a boat that is smaller rather than larger. (It doesn''t speak to any specific boat choice, but I''d put an autopilot at the top of your ''extras'' list).
2. Kids love to be outside when the weather cooperates. This may mean standard add-ons for any boat (e.g. a good awning if the summer sun is intense where you live), but it also means you should look at the cockpit carefully. E.g. a mainsheet traveller bisecting & spanning the cockpit, often found on boats set up to race, is just an impediment and tripping hazard to young kids wanting to spread out their toys, watch what''s happening in the anchorage, and/or playing in the water in a partially filled cockpit well after you''ve stuffed the scuppers with corks. In short, think ''lounge'' for all of you and ''playpen'' for the kids when looking at the cockpit.
3. Kids can sleep thru nuclear war, so *needing* separate sleeping cabins may just result in a boat layout that, for its length, is broken up into more separate spaces and therefore not as visually or physically spacious and comfy. There is no such thing as privacy on a 30-40'' boat, just the illusion of it via visual privacy...nor do you really need it given your short periods aboard. Better to turn the one decent double berth cabin over to the kids and you two use the settees, which allows you to stay up later, lets them sleep in later in the morning, and gives them a large play area (the berth) with their toys nearby when it''s raining.
3. If you agree with this logic, you''ll soon discover that many comon boats on the market today (Catalina, Hunter, etc.) lack two straight settees in the main cabin that allow adults to lie comfortably and have a good snooze. Perhaps an easily converted dinette double will be an option. If you live in a region where the summer is hot & humid, you''ll question the wisdom of those ''aft cabins'', which are usually shoveled under the cockpit and are adjacent to that hot engine you used when motoring into the anchorage or dock.
4. Talk with your husband about the local area and and how that should influence your boat choice. E.g. secluded anchorages or easy access to shore, for the benefit of family cruising, might dictate a shallower draft or a boat with a centerboard (altho'' he might want ''deep'' draft for racing reasons). Think about the ideal place(s) to berth the boat in season, and whether that might limit your length or beam if you want a slip to be easily found. (We had a great family experience in a smaller marina with an active kid''s summer program only because our boat had a relatively narrow beam and so could use a slip others couldn''t consider. We didn''t look much at marina choices when making a boat choice, but it would have been wise to do so).
5. Realize that you may spend an additional 20% of the initial boat''s cost in equipping it, unless you buy used and find a good match between your needs and the previous owner''s outfitting choices. This too may suggest smaller than what you otherwise would prefer...but with weekending and short vacations as your primary family activities, a smaller boat is a reasonable choice. After all, if you have a roomy dink the family can pile into, you may be ashore exploring more and on the boat less than you think.
6. These issues don''t speak to any specific boat choice but are just examples of the kinds of things you''ll want to keep in mind as you talk over your preferences. But if sailing turns out to be, for your family, a great experience, then there''s one especially valuable thing your two kids can potentially get from the experience that''s worth keeping in mind: a love of sailing. And that is likely to happen more easily if your boat is fun to sail. So don''t overlook that quality when thinking diaper and toy storage or galley layout.
Good luck on your research. I think you''ve got some potential for conflict in your choice, between racing capability your husband might want to have and the recreational needs of the family. Don''t underestimate the value of talking this through and spending lots of time walking docks and looking at boats, as you knit together your desires into a collective view of what will be best for all of you.
What makes a good family cruiser boat?
It is really funny how we often look at the opposite side of the same coin. I see where you are coming from on most of your comments and at some level agree that all that you say makes sense. As you can imagine from reading my posts all of these years, I came to somewhat different conclusions.
Take your quote ,"you''ll want a boat that is easily handled - by either of you - and sails without fuss. This may be in conflict with your husband''s desire to have a ''racer/cruiser'' (he may have his eye on racing the boat locally) as such boats often have multiple trimming options that a simple ''family cruiser'' sloop won''t have, and such a boat may be less forgiving when trimming gets less attention by the single crew member who''s also navigating a bit, steering and trimming the sails full-time, and trying to sneak below to fetch a Coke out of the fridge."
When I read the first few words ,"you''ll want a boat that is easily handled - by either of you - and sails without fuss." I thought, ''Right on Jack'' but then I immeadiately thought that a performance oriented boat would have a better hardware and deck layout, lighter steering, etc. making it easier to short hand or for smaller people to get involved in. I thought that performance boats generally offer more performance with less effort (and less adjustment although they have the tools to obtain even higher performance when properly dialed in) and so T''s husband would enjoy sailing the boat more. I figured that there would be some compromises but all and all came up on the other side of the coin. I''m not sure that either one of us are right or wrong but I got a kick out of how different our responses were.
Although off of the subject, best wishes to all for a great Thanksgiving, but expecially to you Jack.
What makes a good family cruiser boat?
T, it may seem like Jeff and I are off on our own little gig here, but the dialogue that continues between us is in fact being driven by your question...and Jeff, I think it''s clear who''s right - it''s both of us, right there in the middle of our differing comments. <g>
''Easily handled'' is IMO (and apparently yours) an important criteria for T, and not only so she can have a break from Mothering. If sailing doesn''t involve & satisfy Mom to some extent, beyond tending to the kids, she''s gonna quickly realize that an RV, a cabin in the woods, or a summer vacation to Dizzyland in Orlando is lots more fun.
My caution is that ''easily handled'' isn''t likely to include a boat intended to be raced by a crew. I didn''t mean to suggest that fast sailing boats can''t be easily handled, altho'' I may have implied that. But IMO it''s a fair assumption that most boats viewed as ''competitive'' and which a racing sailor/husband will be attracted to will presume (in deck plan, cockpit layout, cockpit size vs. cabin size, etc.) that a crew is aboard. Sheet winches distant from the helm? Mainsail trimming options that involve extra strings? Mast rake being more a requirement than an option? A longer cockpit and fewer cabin amenities? I''m just picturing a broker or salesman hearing Hubby talk about speed and the Clubs race events, and then overlooking the fact that a boat the broker can sell as competitive will be less than ''easily handled''.
Here''s the specific frame of reference I had: the British Kiel YC, a place I''ve talked about before. The sail training they do there now uses ten Comfortina 35 sloops. They are very slick boats, quite fast according to the Yachtmasters that supervise the novice crews, and with bendy rigs. These replaced Najad 331 sloops, also fractionally rigged sloops (and before them, H-R 31 fractionally rigged sloops). I asked 3 different YMs what their impressions were of these different boats and got the same answer each time: the Confortinas had more speed potential and were more fun to sail but were clearly more work and less forgiving. Two YMs mentioned crossing the North Sea in the Najads and were very impressed but said they would not particularly enjoy the same run in the Comfortina even tho'' she''s two feet longer. Its that distinction I was trying to draw out for T, as I think Hubby would be inclined to see a Comfortina 35-type boat as more desirable.
Jeff, I''m not sure how or when but I''d sure like to beg a ride on your boat when we next are up on the Chesapeake. I''m sure your boat would be an eye-opening experience for me to sail; I particularly enjoyed looking at the pics of her you posted on another BB. But you''ll need to watch out: I''ll pay attention to all the trimming you do as conditions or point of sail change, and then kid you about whether the boat is easily handled. <g>
What makes a good family cruiser boat?
Guilty as charged. I must admit that I am fairly constantly adjusting. It is almost by habit that I will reach out and adjust something like the sheet tension, traveler,or the backstay. I do it almost by reflex, so I think that you would have a lot to kid me about. On the other hand, I do that on whatever boat I sail, whether it is a more traditional and perhaps more forgiving boat or not.
There is a funny story about sailing with a friend on a sail trial of an older Freedom 33 wishbone boom, cat ketch. The seller was aboard and kept talking about how the boat was so simple to sail and that you simply raised sails and sailed. We were on a beat and the boat was pointing very badly. I began moving around the boat adjusting halyard and outhaul tension and began playing with the snotter which was hard to adjust underway. (When I got back to the cockpit the owner of the boat said that he did not realize that you even could adjust the snotter.) We were now pointing and moving much better than we had been. When we cracked off I reveresed some of the adjustments to give us more reaching speed. After a while my friend finally joked, "Jeff, you can even take a simple boat and make it complicated to sail."
Jack I would really enjoy sailing with you. The offer stands that anytime that you are stateside just give me a call and we''ll go out on Synergy. I can take the ribbing.
What makes a good family cruiser boat?
Hi tziehm,
I probably won''t have the answer to your question. We liveaboard our Formosa 51'' with 2 small kids (ages 2 and 4). When we bought our boat, we were looking for a home. Some things that come to mind for me would be the amount of deck space for the kids to be able to run and play. That is one of the things I love the best about our boat. There aren''t many things on deck that the kids can trip on. We have netting on the life lines around the boat and that really helps with piece of mind. I agree with Jack about having a boat that is easy to manage because one of you will always be on kid duty, most likely. Our kids have their own room with bunks, but they would be so happy to crash anywhere on the boat if need be. Kids are so adaptable. Before we bought our Formosa, we had a Sun 27'' that was extremely comfortable. The table lifted up and attached to the wall, so there would have been a little extra room for kids to play. My suggestion would be to go to a boat show and check out the different boats. I think that everyone is going to have different ideas of what the best options would be. You need to find something that is going to suit you. Good luck in your search!
S/V Ghost
Seattle, WA
What makes a good family cruiser boat?
I would recommend taking ghostsailors suggestion (boat show), but take it to the next level. Charter a couple different kinds of boats. Use the charter as both a vacation and an evaluation. A week long charter is not going to provide adequate evaluation in terms of time or use that a potential live-aboard/world cruiser might require. But for the use you''ve described it may be just the ticket to give some more realistic use-case experience than a boat show or test sail scenario.
What makes a good family cruiser boat?
Interesting thread.
I have some experience, since in summer my family and I live and cruise for 1 month and a half in our boat.
Let me summ up what has been said and it seems more important to me:
"The specifics of what makes a good family cruiser will vary with the family."
"Today, I think that people expect a lot more out of a boat, comforts that are closer to home."
"Generally, these days the focus of a Family cruiser leans toward a certain amount of room to lounge and carry the kinds of ''toys'' that keep a family amused."
"Galleys tend to be surprisingly well equipped, approaching all of the comforts of home."
"Today almost the smallest boats have pressure water and so the water tankage has to be quite large."
" Two very young children as ''crew'' will mean someone quite often will be required to have the ''Kid Watch''....so for starters, you''ll want a boat that is easily handled - by either of you - and sails without fuss. This may be in conflict with your husband''s desire to have a ''racer/cruiser'' "
"This may also argue for a boat that is smaller rather than larger. (It doesn''t speak to any specific boat choice, but I''d put an autopilot at the top of your ''extras'' list".
".....you should look at the cockpit carefully. E.g. a mainsheet traveller bisecting & spanning the cockpit, often found on boats set up to race, is just an impediment and tripping hazard to young kids wanting to spread out their toys."
"Talk with your husband about the local area and and how that should influence your boat choice. E.g. secluded anchorages or easy access to shore, for the benefit of family cruising, might dictate a shallower draft"...
"But if sailing turns out to be, for your family, a great experience, then there''s one especially valuable thing your two kids can potentially get from the experience that''s worth keeping in mind: a love of sailing. And that is likely to happen more easily if your boat is fun to sail. "
"My suggestion would be to go to a boat show and check out the different boats. I think that everyone is going to have different ideas of what the best options would be. You need to find something that is going to suit you."
"Charter a couple different kinds of boats. Use the charter as both a vacation and an evaluation."
Those are, in my opinion, good advises.
I would say that to maximize the single handling of the boat (even by someone that is not experienced) the boat should have the sheet winches at easy reach from the helm and if possible a self tacking head sail.
I think that for very small children center cockpit designs have a security advantage, being easier to maintain the children in the boundaries of the cockpit. This type of boat offers also a traveller situated behind the cockpit, offering a clear and safe cockpit area and good control of the boom, being at reach to the helmsman.
All this put together (including the above quotations ) if it falls inside the budget, I would say that the new Najad 38 or the new Halberg-Rassy 37 are obvious choices as (small) family boats. They are both good and fast boats.
There are two others center cockpit, not so well known and not so expensive that will fit this parameters, the C-yacht 10.4 (and 11.0) and the Sunbeam 37.
I like particularly the C-Yachts. The 10.4 costs around 160 K euros and the 11.0 around 200K.
What makes a good family cruiser boat?
I have come into this discussion late, but I may have some useful comments.
My family and I started sailing in the summer of 2003. There are five of us, my wife and I, and three kids. The kids were 2, 4, and 7 when we first started sailing. The original plan was for a cheap small daysailer. We decided on an older Catalina 22, which was great for the first year. By the end of the year I was totally hooked on sailing and I wanted a bigger boat, something large enough to spend a weekend on, but still small enough to be easily sailed and, more than anything, affordable to purchase and maintain.
We started 2004 with the Catalina. At the end of June we sold it and bought a Newport 28. We did spend a few nights aboard and I want to do more in 2005.
Anyway, here are my specific comemnts regarding a boat suitable for family cruising:
1. The boat must be easy to sail single handed. With the age of your kids, one of you will most likely be watching the kids, and the other will be sailing the boat. You will need a good, reliable, easy to use autopilot. In addition to things like sheet winches at hand, etc, make sure that the boat has a well designed, easy to use, reefing system. Think about this scenerio:
You are sailing in a nice breeze, everyone is happy, you are loving the sailing life. Then the breeze and the waves start to pick up. The boat heels more and starts bouncing off the waves. The kids start getting scared, nervous, and unhappy. You start getting scared, nervous, and unhappy too. One of you (probably you) needs to tend to the kids. The other one must handle the boat, which is in need of a reef.
Being able to quickly and easily reduce sail makes the difference between everyone calming down and enjoying the sail and having people on edge, uncomfortable, and unhappy. And believe me, if the kids are not happy, no one will be happy!
2. Kids are not as well balanced or as agile, as adults. Make sure that the cockpit is open and easy to move around. While the traveler mounted in the cockpit is great for racing, it will really make moving around it difficult. Look for a boat with the traveler mounted on top of the cabin or at the end of the boom leading to the stern, like on the S2 9.2A. I was cloe to buying an Oday 30 until I realized that the main sheet, located right in front of the companionway, would be very difficult for my kids to pass each time they wanted to go below.
3. A stiffer boat will be more comfortable than a tender boat.
4. Look for a boat with an easy to use swim platform. My boat does not have one and I regret it. To get back into my boat you need to climb up a ladder, then climb over the pushpit. Not easy for a 4 year old! My next boat will have a walk through transom and swim platform (with shower).
5. Personally, the galley is not at all important. With the type of sailing I do (mostly day sails, the occasional weekend trip) no one wants to have to cook and clean up on the boat. For day sails we bring a cooler with prepared food. For weekends we will have a meal or two on the boat and the rest off the boat. As long as I can grill some dogs and burgers, and keep milk cold, my galley needs are met. I don''t see baking bread on the boat in my future!
6. Hot and cold pressure water (and a shower) is important. After a day of fun in sun, swimming, being slathered in sunblock, it''s nice to be able to clean the kids off. As you know, they are not fans of cold water rinses. And boiling water in a kettle gets old fast.
7. An open layout down below is also important. The table on my boat folds up against the bulkhead. I didn''t know it at the time, but that''s a great idea. It allows the kids to spead out on the sette, or the cabin sole and play. I don''t have to worry about them climbing on the table, the table falling down, etc. The table can also fold in half so it can be open, but still allow easy access to the head, V berth, etc.
8. I don''t know what sleeping arrangements are best, but everyone needs a bunk. I put one kid (the youngest) in the v berth, so he can fall asleep first, without interruptions. My wife and I sleep on a sette, it pulls out to a double. One kid sleeps in the rear quarterberth. It''s tight and hot but she doesn''t know any better. My oldest sleeps on the other sette. Forget about privacy!
9. For entertainment we bring books, toys, radio, etc. We have dedicated toys for the boat. We try to change them often so the kids don''t get tired of them and they look forward to playing with them. My kids tend to get seasick if they stay below when we are sailing, so mostly they play in the cockpit. At night we use a computer w/DVD drive to watch movies.
I guess that''s about it. I think you need a boat in the 27-34 range. You didn''t list your budget, so I won''t make any specific recommendations. We looked at Catalina 27 (nice, but too small for 5, would be OK for 4), Catalina 30 (perfect for us), Hunter 31 (I don''t trust the quality of 1980''s Hunters). Irwin 31 (all had leaks), O''day 28 and 30 (traveler location), S2 (nice but on the expensive side), Newport 28 and 30, and a few others.
If I were buying a new boat I would get a little bigger one, something 32-34, but that starts getting large for single handing (not to mention expensive).
Good luck,
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