text:
Home › Forums › General Forums › SuperUltraLight (SUL) Backpacking Discussion › My 1st SUL trip
Mar 14, 2013 at 4:21 pm #1300470
just Justin WhitsonMember
Ok, decided to hop from light to SUL for my next trip. I recently got the Sea To Summit UltraSil 20L backpack. I'm combining that with my cuben fiber multi pack from Zpacks in "fanny" mode, in which i keep all my most important stuff in like fire starting kit, space blanket, compass, map, small light knife, some cord, etc.
I recently made my wife a sleeping bag extender since she tends to sleep cold at times. It's made out of two silk liners sewn together, with a layer of about 5.5 feet of 2.5 oz Climashield Apex inbetween on the top. I'm just bringing this on my next trip, which i leave for tomorrow morning. With the Silnylon stuff sack i made for it, it weighs about 12 and a half oz, and is surprisingly warm. To help minimize draft, wind convection heat loss, i will be draping my emergency Frogg Toggs poncho over the top. I will need this anyways since rain is forecasted for the next day.
Bringing a somewhat light weight down jacket and light weight mid layer to augment how far i can take the above down. I've thought of bringing the 4.4 oz tyvek coveralls that i cut off part of the legs/feet off of to help with that as well..not sure if i should bring it or not. I'm only expecting a low of around 35 to 38 degrees, so not that cold.
Normally i take my White Box alc stove, alcohol, and a pot, but i'm leaving those behind and bringing instant eat foods, like marinaded and dehydrated Tempeh, cashews, brown rice crackers, cashew crunch (a really tasty mix of cashews, almonds and pumpkin seeds with a little sea salt, brown rice syrup, and sugar–but not too sweet).
The only thing which is significantly heavy and i wish i could leave behind is my Big Agnes insulated air core sleeping pad/mattress. I would prefer to bring my Zlite CCF pad and a 1/8 inch torso sized foam pad that i have, but i don't have any space for it, and while i probably could rig some cord to hold it somewhere on that tiny pack.. i don't want to mess with it while hiking as i suspect will happen, that and i've started to become accustomed to the comfort of the air mattress.
Bringing some Polycryo as ground protection. Sawyer squeeze filter, 1 tritan plastic bottle and one of the S.S.'s dirty water bottles.
I guess i'm cheating somewhat as i'm not bringing a shelter, but hiking to a hut on the AT.
It's just a two day, and one night trip too. But eh, it's a start, and i like how this small sized pack is forcing me to cut things out, and to think things through very well. Day pack? Ha, i think i could extend it to a 4 day pack at the very least.
Haven't weighed everything yet, but i expect the total weight (including food and water) to be under 8lbs.Mar 20, 2013 at 1:39 am #1967714
b willi jonesBPL Member
@mrjonesLocale: best place in the world !?
cool man… is there a trip report link?Mar 20, 2013 at 3:44 am #1967725
John DonewarBPL Member
@newtonLocale: Southeastern Texas
What part of the AT will you be doing on your 2 day 1 night trip?
Be aware that March and April are the months when thru hikers start their trek northbound. Space in the shelters a.k.a. "huts" could be at a premium depending where you are at on the trail.
I hope you and your wife enjoy the trip.
Party On,
NewtonMar 20, 2013 at 4:22 am #1967726
Hiking MaltoBPL Member
I hope you don't run into a boyscout top in your shelter of choice. Not have a shelter is a bad idea.Mar 20, 2013 at 1:04 pm #1967903
USA Duane HallBPL Member
@hikerduaneLocale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
What's the SUL line at? I'm UL with under 8 lbs, without a bear can or filter, can't recall where SUL is as I thought I'd never approach that.
DuaneMar 20, 2013 at 1:37 pm #1967913
george carrBPL Member
@hammer-oneLocale: Walking With The Son
Usually sub 5 pounds is considered SUL.Mar 20, 2013 at 2:05 pm #1967919
Bradley AttawayMember
@attaboybradLocale: San Francisco Bay Area
Sub-5 base pack weight. The 8 lbs listed by OP includes food/water and presumably gas.Mar 20, 2013 at 6:43 pm #1968004
Dale WambaughBPL Member
@dwambaughLocale: Pacific Northwest
My thought is that SUL should still include a full complement of gear, so you should have enough shelter, clothing, sleeping gear and food to be somewhat comfortable and at least safe. Going out and getting cold, wet and hungry (or worse) isn't the point.
I too like the game of getting an overnight kit into the smallest pack possible, but don't hurt yourself doing it! I reserve this sort of thing for August rather than March. How about a 30-35 liter pack instead? Even a 22-24 liter with water bottle pockets will give a lot more volume. 4 liters extra is a lot when you are down to the wee bits. If you can squeeze in a tarp and a CCF pad, you will have a lot more CYA. I use a Prolite short pad when I need the space; it will roll up to pop can size.
Using the Frogg Toggs emergency poncho as an over-cover sounds okay, but using it for primary rain protection worries me a bit. It isn't big enough to cover your pack and backside— are you planning on wearing it under or over your pack? Or how about a full size poncho and you can use that for backup shelter too? Add a light bivy and your'e really cookin'.
Also, if you are going to carry a space blanket with this sort of kit, use it!Mar 20, 2013 at 8:58 pm #1968044
just Justin WhitsonMember
Hi folks,
The trip went well. I've been consistently going to the Shenandoah National park most weekends (usually by myself–hard to bring Becky unless it's warm) for the last month and a half or so. So far, i haven't seen any thru hikers. I go there, because it's the only decent hiking place relatively close to where i live (outside of Richmond VA, still an hour and a half drive though). I do realize that things are probably going to get busy there in a month or so, but i'm enjoying it while it lasts.
I was surprised that on my last trip, a couple of younger guys did show up at the shelter around 8:30 p.m. They are the first folks that i've seen also staying at the shelters so far. They originally were going to drive in on skyline drive, and hike just a little bit, but the road was closed so they had to hike much further. I also had a late start and so stayed at the first shelter i came across, which was about 7.5 miles in. I also had to get home early the next day, so it worked out.
Truth be told, it was very windy that night, and i was a bit chilly at times with my sleep set up, but it wasn't too bad all in all. Dale, i have decided to make a bivy out of the "kite" tyvek material. Re: the emergency Frogg Toggs poncho–i'm a small guy, about 5' 7" and athletic build, and with such a small pack on, the poncho fit over fine. It wouldn't with any of my other packs though. Plus i had my Brooks LSD II wind shirt with me to supplement.
But otherwise, i liked the pack and the low weight, and yes the weight i was just guesstimating included food and water. No gas or alcohol, i didn't bring any of that stuff with me this time, though i brought a little beeswax candle and a small part of a wall of a aluminum can, for long term light. I can recreate it, and actually try to get a precise weight, but since i didn't get any replies for awhile after posting i didn't think anyone was that interested and i was really busy around then.
Thanks for the interest, well wishes, and/or suggestions.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.


text:
Sleep Beneath Southern Breezes
Longing For Home Bed & Breakfast • Rogersville, AL
Escape Kit
- A Two-Night Stay for Two on The Sleeping Porch
- Daily Three-Course Country Breakfast for Two
- Barbecue Picnic for Two
- Copy of How to Be a Better Southerner
- Two Longing For Home Souvenir Coffee Mugs
- RC Colas, MoonPies, Pralines, and other Southern Comfort Snacks
The Destination
Country graces and friendly faces are a way of life in Rogersville, a quaint town that rests along the Elk and Tennessee Rivers in North Alabama. Located just an hour from Huntsville, this close-knit community provides a down-home retreat within easy distance of big city attractions. Whether you opt to fill up on rich Southern cuisine, peruse local antique shops, or drop a line in the waters that flow through the Tennessee Valley, Rogersville residents are ready to help you craft a memorable getaway.
The Digs
A 19th century-style farmhouse set on 15 acres of wooded property, Longing for Home Bed & Breakfast rests in a peaceful location, perfect for kicking back and enjoying life's simple pleasures. In true Southern fashion, you'll spend a majority of your time at this homey retreat lounging in the sweet-smelling breeze—your open-air accommodations are located on a fully screened-in porch. Listen to the crickets chirp via your comfy king-size bed or sip a glass of sweet tea while rocking in the old-style rocking chairs that occupy your sitting area. Here, home is most definitely not where the hunger is: You'll start your day with a hearty country breakfast including dishes like rosemary, garlic, and pepper quiche with Italian sausage, and biscuits with chocolate gravy. Later, pass the time by swimming in the pool, lounging in the hot tub, or shopping in Olde Towne Rogersville.
"I followed breakfast with a leisurely stroll down the wooded trail and lounging in the nearby gazebo. The Maloneys are down-to-earth hosts whose kindness and grace made me feel less like a paying customer and more like a guest in a family home."-- BedandBreakfast.com
escapes 30-day promise
LivingSocial gives you up to 30 days to return your unused voucher for a full refund. Once you've made a reservation, you are subject to the merchant's cancellation and refund policy. If you want to secure your preferred dates of travel, we strongly recommend that you complete reservation with the merchant within 30 days of your purchase—after that, LivingSocial will not issue any refunds.
the fine print
- Vouchers may not be combined to extend stay
- Only valid for stays between May 1 - May 31, 2013; August 1-November 30, 2013; March 1 - May 31, 2014
- Reservations required and subject to availability
- Not valid toward existing or room block reservations
- Merchant cancellation/rescheduling policy and fees apply once booking is made; voucher subject to forfeiture
- Voucher valid for 2 guests
- Upgrade to the Simple Pleases, Country Graces or Sunshine Daydreams for an additional nightly fee; subject to availability and fee will be collected by the property
- Taxes/resort fee not included; payable directly to the property
- Nights must be spent consecutively; all inclusions must be redeemed during one stay
- Other conditions apply • PAID AND PROMOTIONAL VALUES EXPIRES ON May 31, 2014 • PAID VALUE DOES NOT EXPIRE • PAID VALUE EXPIRES ON May 31, 2019 • PROMOTIONAL VALUE EXPIRES ON May 31, 2014 • Enjoy By May 31, 2014
Other conditions apply
Except where noted in the fine print:
• Cannot be combined with any other offer or promotion
• Tax and gratuity are not included
• Merchant is responsible for the quality of the products or services provided to you at redemption
• LivingSocial Terms and Conditions - https://www.livingsocial.com/terms
Original Price:
- 0% savings
- remaining

subset: commoncrawl


text:
PlayBook: Walruses and Kings
The rise and fall of football's Quarterback Kings.
"The time has come," the Walrus said, "To talk of many things:
Of shoes, and ships and sealing wax, of quarterbacks and kings."
-Lewis Carroll
That's not quite verbatim but the Walrus is right; it is indeed time to talk. While his topics will likely be centered on the particulars of tricking and trapping oysters, ours will mostly be concerned with the ugly game of American football of which ships and sealing wax will only ever play a marginal role.
Kings on the other hand are common. Dan Marino's 27 year hold on the single season passing record was shattered twice this season, once by Drew Brees and again last week by Tom Brady. This is not an overly common thing to have happen, what with it not happening once in 27 seasons of play, but for it to happen twice in a single year speaks to the caliber of football we've just spent 17 weeks watching.
Other Quarterback Kings this season include Aaron Rodgers who set the all-time passer rating bar at 122.5 with 45 TDs to only six picks and Cam Newton, who became the only rookie to throw for at least 4000 yards in his first professional year.
Cam's gone now but the rest of these folks are what we call Kings, lifelong gamers with no interest in not being the best and yet their courts as it were, have fallen into disrepair, full of questionable holes of character and talent.
Through 16 games, no teams have given up more passing yards then the three presided over by Brees, Brady and Rodgers. Brady and Rodgers' teams have actually surrendered the most total yards this season with the Saints only a few spots higher, padded by a rag-tag group of organizations like Indianapolis Colts and Tampa Bay Buccaneers. These are not the kind of stats that bode well against teams like Pittsburgh and Baltimore who tend to play the game well on the both sides of the ball. In fact the Steelers, Texans, Ravens and Niners, in that order, sit atop the same YPG list the former three teams are on the bottom of and all of the former can play offense too, albeit without the flash and glamor of the Brees and the Bradys.
All this to say the teams who bullied their way through the schedule on the back of their offense might find their season undone when it becomes stuck in the mud. The Patriots are in no way equipped to fight a trench war in places like Pittsburgh or Baltimore and the Saints are actually hoping to draw the 15-1 Packers so they can play the shoot 'em out game they at least have a shot to win.
Yes sir, January is a dark time when coups become commonplace; Kings can easily be unseated when they can't control the pace of a game.
This Week's Lines:
Cincinnati (+3) over Houston
The Foster/Schaub injury fiascoes bookending an otherwise successful Texans season have done little to dissuade the rest of the team that they are not playoff contenders. They've actually been more successful in yards per carry without them. Not the same can be said for wins though; since Schaub went down, the Texans are without one and are thankful things broke the way they did in the AFC. The Bengals on the other hand are hungry and healthy, with a pretty balanced offensive attack on the go. This game will still be tight given the Texans top five defense but they haven't proven they can win a game without their fearless leader.
New Orleans (-10.5) over Detroit
Few teams came out and actually engaged New Orleans in a football game this season; for the most part another team just happened to be on the field while Drew Brees & Co. did their thing, which they did very well. New Orleans also has one of the best O-lines in the game rendering Detroit's penchant for the pass rush moot. 10.5 is not a lot of ground for this Saints team to cover and Detroit is not the finely oiled machine we saw back in September.
Pittsburgh (-8.5) over Denver
Tebow – and Jesus - get a lot of credit for the many miracle fourth quarters the Broncos have manufactured this season when in truth they are at least equal parts the doing to kicker Matt Prater. Regardless of who we're attributing miracles to, they're done in Denver. The Steelers come into town as a 12-4 wild card against an 8-8 division winner and the result will be as you might expect; even with Big Ben's ankle in question, the playoff seasoned Steelers will put on a clinic at Mile High.
Atlanta (+3) over New York
Anyone who has followed Brother Eli through the playoffs has noticed at least one thing: guy cannot play football at home in January. He has no TDs at home in the playoffs, no wins and under 300 yards in two games. On the road or neutral he is 4-1 with over a 1000 yards and eight TDs. They had to win the division to make playoffs but this is obviously not the ideal scenario for the Giants. They played their Super Bowl last week against the Cowboys.
Last Week: 7-6-3
Overall: 77-50-6


text:
Adjective: A state of being drunk; so drunk that It controls all future actions and functions of the body from the point of being shmasterd.
I was so shmastered last night that i pissed on my backback in the kitchen then passed out in the bathtub.
by The Carpdizzle July 23, 2009
A combination of Shit-faced, smashed, and plastered; the ultimate form of intoxication
by ProtegeRapper April 26, 2016


text:
You missed it This great deal for MyPublisher is over. But don't despair, we've got more great deals every day.
Related Deals That You May Like
HB Media Solutions
VHS Tapes Transferred to DVD, for Home Video Only
Butter Lane
2-Hour Cupcake-Making Class 101 for 1 Person
Sunrise Studios
3 Video-to-DVD Transfers or $50 Toward Transfers
The Young Scientists Club
The Magic School Bus STEM Kits Subscription
20-Page Deluxe Photo Book with Super Gloss Pages
91% recommendedin LivingSocial customer ratings
Your mom has been there from the very beginning, photographing memories of your first steps to walking across the stage at graduation. Put your best foot forward with a Mother's Day gift she'll cherish from MyPublisher: Pay $19 and receive a personalized, 20-page, 11.5"x15" deluxe photo book with super gloss pages (a $90 value). Download the quick, intuitive, and free software, select your images, choose from more than 200 layouts, then add captions or pages of text. Whether you want to showcase family photos through the years, relive a vacation, or surprise both of your parents with a scrapbook of their marriage, the blank pages are your canvas. She'll be able to show off the finished product with pride -- making all of her friends wish they were in her shoes.
PAID VALUE EXPIRES ON May 29, 2022
PROMOTIONAL VALUE EXPIRES ON July 18, 2012


text:
|Data Dictionary:
|Census 2000
you are here: choose a survey survey data set table variable details
Survey: Census 2000
|Data Source:
|U.S. Census Bureau
Data set: Summary File 3 (SF3)
Universe: Specified renter-occupied housing units paying cash rent
Variable Details
|Upper Contract Rent Quartile
|Universe: Specified renter-occupied housing units paying cash rent
H057001Upper contract rent quartile
Percent base:
None - percentages not computed (variable is table universe)
Aggregation method:
Relevant Documentation:
|Excerpt from:
|Social Explorer, U.S. Census Bureau; 2000 Census of Population and Housing, Summary File 3: Technical Documentation, 2002.
|Summary File 3 Technical Documentation -> Appendix B. Definitons of Subject Characteristics -> Housing Characteristics -> Contract Rent -> Median and quartile contract rent
The median divides the rent distribution into two equal parts: one-half of the cases falling below the median contract rent and one-half above the median. Quartiles divide the rent distribution into four equal parts. Median and quartile contract rent are computed on the basis of a standard distribution (see the "Standard Distributions" section under "Derived Measures"). In computing median and quartile contract rent, units reported as "No cash rent" are excluded. Median and quartile rent calculations are rounded to the nearest whole dollar. Upper and lower quartiles can be used to note large rent differences among various geographic areas. (For more information on medians and quartiles, see "Derived Measures".)


text:
The journey to crafting a perfect award jacket started many years ago for our brand. First we had to find the right manufacturer. We wanted the best quality wool, the best quality leather, and the craftsmanship had to be second to none. We also wanted to make sure that our first jacket was made right here in the USA, and not anywhere else. Once we found that right factory, we had to go to work to create a timeless piece that all of us would be proud to rock as we celebrate 5 years in business. Through many changes, we were satisfied with the quality and style of the patches and embroidery that we will use for this jacket, much like the creative process we go through to design a fitted. So after over a year of development, we are proud to present for the first time ever, MAJOR Victory Jacket by Dehen1920, and the lookbook, shot by the incomparable @George88
We started off with the top quality black 100% melton wool outer shell, sourced from Pendleton by Dehen. We added 100% virgin wool trim, featuring white lines on the cuffs and waist, and true black on the neck collar for better wear. The sleeves are made of 100% genuine cowhide, and the entire jacket is lined with satin for extra warmth, and ease of wear. The end of left sleeve features the classic Bullets style MAJOR logo in white embroidery… Which you will start seeing more of.
Perhaps the most important detail on the Victory Jacket is the Trinity Chenille patch on the left chest. Using the old school tackle twill method, this is a triple layer chain stitched chenille block letter. You will not find quality like this in an imported item.
But wearing is believing, and on the right sleeve, we included the MAJOR Crest patch, inspired by George Washington's family crest. The detail on this patch is simply unbelievable, and the way it's sewn onto the sleeve? You will think that it's a part of the sleeve!
Due to our temporary closure of the showroom, the jacket will not be sold at the store. We will announce the availability and release information via twitter.
Thanks for your support of the MAJOR brand, and the store!


text:
Having a baby means having questions. Our experienced Family Birth Center physicians and staff have created the following library of videos to help answer your questions.
Watch the video or read the transcript.
Content Updated: August 5, 2015
From education to advanced care and support, you can rely upon the Maternity programs at Premier Health.
Search all Premier Health services, procedures and treatments.
Search for a Premier Health service by entering a condition, procedure or treatment:
Find a service by choosing from the list of services below:
Find a service by choosing a related condition, procedure or treatment:
Results for ""
Premier MyChart:
Help Us Touch Lives:


text:
Town Square
PAUSD Mandarin Immersion Feasibility Study available now!
Original post made by Nico, Fairmeadow, on Dec 8, 2006
Web Link
The feasibility of PAUSD adding a new Mandarin dual immersion program will be discussed at the school board meeting next Tuesday evening. Here are some of the findings from the study:
1. A Mandarin dual-immersion program is consistent with PAUSD's mission and goals, programs and instructional strategies.
2. Start-up costs for the program will be $10,950 (which I think can be raised by fundraising, for example by parent donations/bake sales, or grants). Ongoing costs for the comparable with PAUSD norms.
3. PAUSD can recruit and hire the staff they need to implement the program. (Staff means mainly bilingual teachers and a principal, both resources may already exist in the district and may not be new hires.)
4. Necessary curriculum and assessment materials, exist or can easily be created for the program. The MI program will adhere to PAUSD best practices and standards.
5. Student selection will largely follow the existing Spanish Immersion program's process. The program will be open by lottery to all PAUSD students. Attrition should not be an issue based on research on other MI programs.
6. Location will be a challenge for the Attendance Area Review Group, who will make site recommendations in January 2007. Their priority is to find MI a home without displacing any neighborhood kids.
This study will be discussed at the school board meeting on Tuesday, December 12. PAUSD Board of Education meeting
Tuesday 12/12/06
starts at 7:00PM
25 Churchill Ave. Palo Alto, CA
The meeting room is in the way back. Drive to the back of the driveway and it is right before the tennis courts.
I am very excited about the prospect of PAUSD adding this great new program! After reading the feasibility study, I am optimistic that it can and will be implemented with PAUSD's usual high level of quality.
If you want to show your support for the program, come to the meeting wearing red!
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Dec 8, 2006 at 6:02 pm
Don't be misleading Nico. The start up costs of $10,900 is PER CLASSROOM. This would mean that for a two strand school $22,000 would have to be raised each year for the first 6 years at elementary and that is at today's costs. This adds up to a lot of cookies and brownies, or else in a classroom of 20 Kids, the first groups of parents would be expected to "donate" $500 every year.
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Dec 8, 2006 at 6:13 pm
Not to mention that the "consistency" conclusions include a statement that the program will further the goal of narrowing the achievement gap because every resident child will have a chance to participate. I guess they forgot to mention this means every child can enter the lottery for K-1. And I'm still not getting how this addresses the achievement gap in any way.
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Dec 8, 2006 at 9:07 pm
So much that we teach our children in history and science is obsolete by the time it reaches the classroom. Language is learning that lasts a lifetime. Imagine how different our present circumstances might be if we had enough citizens who spoke Farsi? Immersion classes in Mandarin are worth far more than they cost.
I can't see the logic to the argument that something of this value shouldn't be available to any of our children because we aren't proposing to offer it to all who want it.
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Dec 8, 2006 at 9:47 pm
So much that we teach our children in history and science is obsolete by the time it reaches the classroom. Language is learning that lasts a lifetime. Imagine how different our present circumstances might be if we had enough citizens who spoke Farsi? Immersion classes in Mandarin are worth far more than they cost. I can't see the logic to the argument that something of this value shouldn't be available to any of our children because we aren't proposing to offer it to all who want it.
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Dec 8, 2006 at 10:18 pm
I've been on the fence about MI. Palo Alto kids do not learn foreign languages early enough and it is a very good idea to start in elementary school. However, reading this proposal and the 14 page document on the PACE site does leave me asking questions.
The most important is, will this lead to the "balkanization" of the Palo Alto school district? Both documents imply that 50% of the kids will be native speakers of English and the other 50% native speakers of Chinese. However, it seems that a definition of native speaker can be fuzzy in some cases and I'm wondering if MI might become primarily a Chinese school. Will the kids in this school interact with children of Hebrew or Indian descent? Or will it become a enclave without concern for the wider Palo Alto school district?
It is not realistic to say that the demographics of MI must be identical to the wider Palo Alto school district, but this proposal should be up front about how it will ensure the demographics of this program remain balanced. Are kids from E. Palo Alto that get into the Palo Alto school district excluded? Will a child from a bilingual background be counted as an English speaker to inflate that category?
I've not seen these question well defined, and would prefer that they are. Can a supporter of MI clarify? Perhaps I've not see all the docs on this.
Please don't take these question the wrong way. They are important though.
MI uses SI as a precedent to justify why it should be started. But wouldn't more kids benefit if we add a period at the end of the day for teaching a wider variety of foreign languages? We have significant number of kids of Korean, Indian and Hebrew descent. Why not languages expand programs for all the kids?
a resident of Juana Briones School
on Dec 9, 2006 at 6:43 am
Even if this feasibility study had shown that this program were completely cost neutral, it starts from several false premises. 2 are below.
ONE- It is admirable for our District to have a great program available by lottery to only a few of all qualified students. Putting in another Immersion program for 5% of the kids before we have foreign language instruction for ALL the kids in elementary school is like having a super enriched math curriculum for 5% of the kids in elementary school and nothing for anybody else.
Either this is a core subject critical to our kids, or a "very important but not core" subject, or it isn't worth the trouble at all. If it is critical, we do it for all the kids in any given grade level..how about even starting with all the kids in 6th grade? Work our way back each year after? I almost wouldn't care how it is done, as long as it were for all the kids who were capable of it in any given grade level.
IF it is "very important, but not as critical as core subjects", as we have determined art, music and PE to be, then we treat it the same as those subjects, and offer it to all on whatever basis we can.
If it isn't either of the above, then we don't do it at an enriched level that makes a few completely proficient while not even exposing any of the rest of the kids.
TWO - The choice of some parents is more important than the choice of other parents. It is a fact, not a "belief"... look at all the boundary maps with the "little dots" for each school, look at the attendace charts for numbers, and see that about 20% of the kids in any given alternative program could be considered "local" or "neighborhood". The other 80% come from outside the boundaries, or what would be the boundaries if it were a designated neighborhood school, which means the kids living within the boundaries lose their seats from what what would be their neighborhood school. So, the parents who want the alternative program are more important than the parents who want to keep their kids at their closer school.
The meeting is this Tuesday night at 7pm. It will be packed. All can speak. Evidently PACE is putting out the word to show up in red if you want this..In response, please show up in green if you don't want it.
Thankfully this discussion is coming to an end soon. I, for one, will be glad to have this issue resolved. Please be part of the solution.
a resident of Juana Briones School
on Dec 9, 2006 at 6:53 am
By the way, the AAAG already recommended Dec 5th to locate the program at a re-opened Garland school. It would still displace the kids who will live within the Garland boundaries, though. So, it solves nothing, unless you want to consider that the sacrifice of the future families who will be displaced is a good solution, since it isn't one of "us".
Also, if MI is approved to start this August..it still has to be somewhere for a few years until we get back Garland, assuming it ever happens...so, don't be fooled.
a resident of Fairmeadow
on Dec 9, 2006 at 8:36 am
Hi Balkan,
Thanks for your question. I am not an expert on the subject, but I can address a couple of your points.
- "adding a period at the end of the day" – This is called "FLES" Foreign Language in Elementary Schools. That is a great idea. PAUSD has researched this before, and probably will again soon. It is really different from immersion though. Looking at the study PAUSD did in 1994, FLES can give kids exposure to language but the only road to bilingualism is immersion. In immersion you are spending 70% of your school day in the "target" language so the amount of exposure and breadth of exposure leads to true bilingualism. I can't find the link now, but if you look on the "choice vs. luck" thread in town square it might be there. There was a lot of discussion on FLES there.
- I do not think that MI will lead to"Balkanization" I think this due to my personal experience as well as some data that PACE has collected.
First my family is 100% Caucasian, and as far as I know none of our ancestors has ever spoken Chinese. When I went back to work part time, my son was 6 months old. I found a Mandarin daycare and babysitter for 20 hours/week. He is now 5 and is completely fluent in Mandarin. The reason why I have become involved in PACE is that I have seen how effortless it is for children to learn language. And I am convinced from my experience that immersing them in the language is the best way to go.
You ask about how a true "bilingual" is treated in the lottery, and I actually think that they might be treated as native speakers if they are fluent. I am totally guessing here, I think the teacher does the "fluency test" and it might be up to him/her how a student is categorized. But, my fluent Caucasian son might be counted as a "mandarin speaker."
Second, PACE actually collected some data to look at who would be attracted to the MI program. It was presented to AAAG on November 13th. I am sorry but I don't think that data is online. If you want it, I can see if it can be posted somewhere?
PACE did a survey of 66 potential students (from 53 families) and asked their ethnicity, among other things. The largest category of interested kids was "multi-racial" kids (38%). All races, with the exception of Native American, were represented. You mention Hebrew and Indian specifically so one piece of data relevant to that is we asked about "languages spoken at home, or children are learning." Of the 29 families that answered this question, 3 (10%) were learning Hebrew, 12 (41%) were learning Spanish, one child was learning Hindi. Other responses to this question included German, Dutch and French. If you are interested I can see if we can post the data on the PACE Website. I would have to get help with that though.
a resident of Fairmeadow
on Dec 9, 2006 at 8:53 am
to Bystander, you are right about the start-up cost. It was not my intent to mislead, I was watching both kids while writing and missed that. Start-up would be $21,900 for 2 strands or $16,350 for 1.5 strands. ..... I better get baking.
Also, I like the "holiday color" theme emerging for the MI meeting Tuesday; Red for supporters and Green for opponents.
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Dec 9, 2006 at 9:23 am
Having so many Mandarin-speaking Chinese parents in Palo Alto will be helpful to this program. Children acquire language very easily, but they do lose it over the years if they have no time to practice. As children move through this program, perhaps they should be given the obligation to help the classes behind them.
Development, not MI or SI, will make attendance at particular schools dicey for elementary students. In fact, it already has. The Staff and Council have paid no attention to capacity of elementary schools, nor available libraries or parks in approving residential projects. Growth in traffic will also make walking and biking to school more hazardous. That's another topic: Stanford development; Palo Alto development. High land cost; little investment in parks or schools.
a resident of Palo Verde
on Dec 9, 2006 at 12:45 pm
I think it is important to realize that the 'neighborhood' aspect is only one aspect of schooling, and not necessarily the only one. In fact, it is effectively as much a "choice" issue as is child-centered education Ohlone-style, or structured eduction Hoover-style, or language immersion SI or MI style.
We make choices all the time. What we wear, what we eat, where we live, who we befriend. And what kind of education we want for our children. If we make a decision for all Palo Alto that the neighborhood aspect of schooling is the ONLY thing we care about, that effectively makes the choice for everyone, whether they agree or not. PAUSD -- wisely in my opinion -- recognized that there are additional educational issues, other than geographical proximity and the "community" aspect, and offers them as choice programs.
But making choice *for* something often means making a *negative* choice for something else. A trade-off. For example, people who prefer Ohlone effectively say they prefer it OVER the neighborhood-community aspect. I see nothing wrong with that, yet some here seem to have no problem telling others what should *their* educational values be. I find it patronizing.
Wouldn't it be nice if we did not have to make trade-offs? But we do. A school can't be "open" and "structured" at the same time. We can't offer SI and MI to every kid at the same time, especially since not every parent would even want it. The sooner we recognize it, the better we all will be. By insisting on the neighborhood aspect as the only one, we force a one-size-fits-all solution on all of Palo Alto.
I don't think absence of choice is good; neither for the children, nor for Palo Alto. If one disagrees, one should consider why we should not simply accept a dictated school program from Washington or from Sacramento, and get on with our lives.
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Dec 9, 2006 at 1:31 pm
Hey Nico: how is this program being marketed to Spanish-speaking-only families? Will they receive program information in Spanish? If a Spanish only child gets into MI, how would the English-Mandarin-Spanish thing work? Would there be a native language tutor who is tri-lingual? I'd like to get the word out to families at my school so they can get into the lottery when it happens, so if you have info, that would be great.
a resident of Palo Verde
on Dec 9, 2006 at 1:46 pm
I am one of the people who has nothing against Mandarin language instruction, just the aspect of giving an immersion to a small percentage of our children.
When it comes to seeing what happens in Continental Europe where I think many of the inhabitants are not only bilingual, but often speak 3 or 4 languages fluently with a passing knowledge in 1 or 2 others, we have to ask ourselves how they do it? Firstly, their children spend more than our 180 instructional days in school and their school hours are longer too, often with Saturday morning school. Secondly, they start their children learning probably 2 languages at a much earlier age than we do. They also have what we would call camps and summer school which are designed as an immersion program. I wonder if anyone in PAUSD has looked into this aspect.
So, my idea is to spend our language dollars on FLES and then to try thinking outside the box when it comes to language instruction. Why not have immersion summer school programs and immersion winter and spring break camps? Why not have immersion after school care or Saturday immersion classes. I know that this is not necessarily something that PAUSD could do on its own, but possibly with help from the City rec. dept. some or all of these ideas could be worked out. The rec. dept. already liaises with the schools for middle school sports, so the machinery to start must already be in place.
To sum it up, immersion in a language has to be a good idea, but what is suggested now is not the way to go. Lets look at other ideas and find something that can help everyone.
a resident of Fairmeadow
on Dec 9, 2006 at 3:31 pm
Yet another question,
Actually the MI program is not being marketed to anybody yet. If it is approved, then PAUSD will advertise it. In the feasibility study, on page 19, there is a timeline for rolling out the program. In this timeline there are "informational meetings" in February/March followed by a lottery. I think at those meetings would be a good time to ask your question about tri-lingual support. It would also be a good time to ask if the program is good for Spanish-speaking-only children. I think it would be great to have informational materials at those meetings in English, Mandarin and Spanish. Could you help with translation to Spanish and outreach? If so, please email me at email@example.com
a resident of Community Center
on Dec 9, 2006 at 4:23 pm
The question of how to educate the most children in a school district like PAUSD in a foreign language is addressed through a FLES type program, as you accurately point out. FLES and immersion are compatible with each other, and you can have one without the other.
As has been documented in many studies around this, including the one I was involved in when Spanish Immersion was introduced in PAUSD in the mid-1990's (USEFL), there are two key differences between FLES and immersion (lnaguage not important):
--first, there is a different outcome for the students, FLES students do not and are not expected to achieve fluency in a language, immersion students are fluent by around grade 5
--second, the cost of a FLES program is quite substantial, and requires wholesale modification of the teaching curriculum, while the cost and ease of implementing an immersion program is much much less. (I don't want my comments here to become an argument about what the true costs of immersion are, my point is that a FLES approach is a much more significant effort and cost to the District to implement)
My own preference is that we do, as you seem to suggest, have language exposure as part of the basic instruction rubric. I also support continuing Spanish Immersion and starting Mandarin Immersion as another ocmponent of this language policy change. If the school board adopts such a policy, it is much faster and easier to implement the Mandarin Immersion program than make the changes and funding allocations necessary for FLES. I am of the point of view that it is a perfectly acceptable "on-ramp" strategy to implement the two programs on different timetables, as long as both are clearly spelled out and understood. The implication would be MI would be started sooner, and FLES would follow for all students a couple of years out.
As for your ideas about immersion becoming an after school or weekend program, I respectfully suggest you study the reports and research so that you will understand that unless it is in the daily fabric of the instructional day, it is not immersion, and it will not achieve immersion type outcomes.
Separately, I a member of the City of Palo Alto Parks and Recreation Commission. A language immersion program at the elementary school level and the middle school recreation program run by the City are not at all alike, and the City is not equipped to take something of this sort on as a program. Bug us about playing fields or shabby tennis courts, but don't ask us to take on foreign language instruction! Kidding aside, the sorts of after school and weekend ideas do exist in town at present, largely via private organizations and some churches. And they are not immersion.
a resident of Palo Verde
on Dec 9, 2006 at 5:17 pm
Thank you for your comments and I am glad to see that we agree on many issues. I am not against immersion. I just don't want to see immersion happen and then nothing else. I am also against having another choice programme. However, these are not the reasons I am replying to your thread.
I am pleased that you as a parks and rec. member have seen my comments. I am not saying at all that this department should get into the instruction of a language. However, my idea stemmed from the idea that some of the current programs, particularly the "fun" ones could be done in a different language. Mandarin is not necessarily the one that comes to mind. However, something like Kids love soccer, where most of the instruction is by example, or some of the day camps at Foothills, could definitely be done as a language camp. I know that if advertised as say Spanish, it would be viewed as something for native Spanish speakers only, but with some advertising and specific targeting, I am sure we could get it to become a fun way of getting into using Spanish as an everyday method of learning a language. We could call these language camps.
These are only ideas of course. But I do know that language is not a barrier to children. I was taken to Europe as a child many times and when taken to the beach or somewhere, I was often playing happily with a group of children, all who spoke different languages and we were all able to get by. My idea was just taking this one step further.
I know that none of this is immersion in the same sense as a full academic programme would be, but my point is that we should try thinking outside the box. The camps idea, is just a thought. My real reason for mentioning this was summer school with the additional idea of winter break and spring break language camps as a follow up.
a resident of Stanford
on Dec 9, 2006 at 5:26 pm
What a joke about the "the MI program is not being marketed to anybody yet". In fact, interested parties have already lined up realtors to pounce as soon as the Board caves in to this proposal for taxpayer funded private education.
Check out the excerpt from the MI feasibility study (p. 17)below. In fact, enrollment growth in the PAUSD is likely to spike if this program is approved -- and what do you suppose those who are disappointed by the outcome of the lottery are going to do? Advocate for language instruction for all?
"Implementation of Mandarin immersion has the potential to further increase enrollment growth from two sources. First, the District currently has approximately 1,000 students who live within District
boundaries and who attend private schools, including International School of the Peninsula (for Mandarin immersion). How many families might be drawn into the District for this new choice program is unknown. Secondly, the District has received many inquiries from parents who have not yet moved to the District wishing to purchase homes in the vicinity of the new proposed Mandarin immersion program. How many families might relocate to Palo Alto specifically because of the attractiveness of a new choice Mandarin program is unknown. Since the District is currently facing increasing enrollment, this potential for increased growth challenge must be recognized."
a resident of Community Center
on Dec 9, 2006 at 5:39 pm
Thank you for the clarification about your "camp/language" idea. I understand better what you mean.
As you may know, there are many programs that the City's Recreation Department conducts, and it may be possible to do something along the lines you are suggesting. There may be private organizations that also could do (maybe some already are doing) something along these lines.
I will close with that, this posted topic is about the MI study just released, and it would be inappropriate to further occupy this space on this other item.
a resident of Palo Verde
on Dec 9, 2006 at 5:50 pm
"Fan of public schools" (and who isn't in this town?) argues that MI, and presumably other choice programs, may increase enrollment. I don't worry so much about additional people coming to Palo Alto as this is already happening due to our school's excellence -- as it should! -- but at the same time it also increases the property values and taxes that support the same schools. However, s/he also brings up the potential of kids moving from private schools into public schools, and s/he views it as a negative. How can it be negative it s/he believes s/he is a "fan of public schools"? Isn't the hope of people who truly are fans of public schools that *all* kids will got public schools?
If this truly bothers some people, that PAUSD may become more attractive, it may also explain why they are against choice programs. The less attractive PAUSD schools will become, the more kids will leave for private schools, and the more money will be left for their own children. How considerate of them!
a resident of Charleston Meadows
on Dec 9, 2006 at 6:59 pm
yeah, let's dumb-down our school district so people won't move here - NOT!
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Dec 9, 2006 at 7:06 pm
1000 x $10,000 = $10,000,000
Potential increase in PAUSD yearly operating cost if we increased by 1000 students. Enrollment growth is VERY risky in PAUSD which is a basic aid district. We currently spend about $10,000 per pupil per year.
OK, you say, not all 1000 will automatically come. But how many will apply?
If you throw 1000 private school attendees (+ interest from outside palo alto) into the lottery pot, along with the 49 they mustered through what the feasibility claims is a very broad community support network, how many of the 240 spots will be filled with new incremental PAUSD enrollment?
To make the numbers easy, lets say 200?
(I think that's too low, there should be a very low probability of choosing all 49 of the 49 thrown into the pot of 1049) - Its a probability problem - I'm not sure how to solve - anyone out there statistics person?
But if we say 200 spots are filled with new growth x $10,000 = $2,000,000 increase in yearly operating costs for PAUSD.
And some will come and wait in the wings... And some will come and get on waiting lists with the expectation of showing overwhelming support for the program, expecting an imminent increase in the size of the program to 4 strands. A fair guess is that the increase in new enrollment will be ~at least~ 240 ($2,400,000). We can argue about the numbers, but its reasonable to say the yearly operating cost increase for new enrollment is material, and likely exceeds $2M per year
Even if we are WAY conservative - and cut that in half - $1,000,000? Cut by a fourth 250,000 per year? These numbers are big.
I recall a board meeting in June where the board required a group requesting an expansion of the J bus line, who said they could make it cost neutral by selling bus passes and they already had folks lined up for those, for a guarantee, an indemnification against the risk of increase in cost to PAUSD for $3,500! (Three Thousand Five Hundred Dollars).
Cost per year per pupil in PAUSD is already low relative to our benchmark peers per the PIE Study. The assumption here is that fund raising, (PIE, PTAs and and other measures) would have to step WAY up to cover this new enrollment growth (surely PACE isn't agreeing to cover this risk), or else we risk dropping per pupil spending even further and putting OTHER PROGRAMS at risk.
And capacity???
So much for the 13th school solution. AAAG didn't even take in to consideration the bump in enrollment growth from this program in their projections. I asked two AAAG members at last weeks meeting who were vocal proponents of a choice program as a way to relieve enrollment pressure in overenrolled schools (they approached me) - they said NO, the AARG did not consider new enrollmemnt growth for MI).
So we potentially fill this program with entirely new enrollment, and don't even solve ~any~ of the BOUNDARY issues they thought they could solve with the choice model!
And if the numbers get as high as 1000... Forget the 13th school, you'll need about THREE more schools... (at $7M a pop).
This has the potential for getting VERY risky, VERY fast, and VERY easily. And no way to predict the impact?
I don't see how the board will be able to ignore this risk.
The thing they don't make clear is that other districts who bring this program in do so to HELP enrollment growth, either to fill up school sites at risk of closure, to help a large population of ELL students (ie: to help close the achievement gap), or because enrollment increases HELP their bottom line - those would be districts who are NOT BASIC AID districts which get incremental dollars from the state per pupil. Its well known that these programs attract incremental enrollment.
This is not a 'no harm done' program. This will have a serious financial impact for our district. The board discussion on this will be fascinating. Utterly illuminating.
Wolf dismisses this risk as 'natural' for our excellent schools to attract enrollment. Well of course we attract enrollment and its causing us capacity problems at the current rate, and that's all been covered by the AARG enrollment projections. By the way, at the AARG discussion last week the demographer made quite a point of how Asian families tend to bring higher pupil density per household than others, particularly first generation. So this blows the demographer density projections over the top???
This is new growth, a jump up from what we naturally already incur, and there really no good reason at all to go out of our way to worsen the enrollment growth problem.
a resident of Fairmeadow
on Dec 9, 2006 at 7:24 pm
-- Moving to Palo Alto
By the second year of SI when I was the SIPAPA president, I had people calling me from out-of-state saying they were moving to California and were interested in Palo Alto's SI program. Once they heard about the lottery, they were a lot less excited about moving to Palo Alto. Any realtor who doesn't set prospective homebuyers straight about school boundaries and lotteries for choice programs would be subject to lawsuits.
-- Mandarin speakers
I assume a bilingual child would count as a Mandarin speaker. In the SI program, a bilingual child counts as a Spanish-speaker. That's because there are almost no monolingual Spanish speakers. Even when a language other than English is spoken at home, a child who watches TV, shops in the community, plays in the park, goes to preschool, etc., tends to pick up at least some English. In an ideal immersion program, there would be 1/3 bilinguals, 1/3 English-only speakers, 1/3 target language-only speakers. But ideal doesn't seem to exist in any immersion program because demographics are always lopsided one way or the other.
-- Spanish speakers in MI?
Could a Spanish-speaking child take part in MI? Generally, it's recommended that the child speak English or the target language, but it is not unheard of for kids who are not skillful in either language to enroll in immersion programs. In fact, several years ago there was an ELL student (of Chinese origin, I believe), who was admitted to the SI program thanks to strong advocacy on the part of the mother, and the child did well. The difficulty is less for the child and more for the parents: if the parents don't speak English, how will they communicate with the teacher? (Ah well, this is the same problem faced by Spanish-speaking parents when their kids are in the traditional English program, isn't it?)
a resident of Fairmeadow
on Dec 9, 2006 at 8:43 pm
Could you explain your estimate of 1000 new students in the district due to MI?
The only comparable program to MI in PAUSD is the Int'l School of the Peninsula. How many students would ISP lose to PAUSD? The ISP website says their elementary MI program has 130 students — and the students live in cities all over the area. How many of them live in Palo Alto and could take part in the MI lottery? (BTW, no one can take part in a lottery unless they first register their child in PAUSD, and they can't have their kid's name on a waiting list either if they're enrolled elsewhere.)
If most of the 1000 new students in the district do not come from a private school, then they have to live somewhere. Let's say these extra kids come from 500 families new to the district. These 500 additional families will need housing, but I'm not aware of a surplus of lots to build on in Palo Alto. I mean, there is existing real estate which might turn over, and there is planned development which will add kids, but these account for the already-anticipated new enrollment. I'm trying to figure out where the 500 additional MI-hopeful families could find a place to live. In other words, I can see more demand for housing, but not more supply, so I would think the increased demand would just drive up costs rather than add kids.
I can see a small increase of students entering an MI lottery, but I can't understand more students if there's no increase in housing. What am I missing?
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Dec 9, 2006 at 9:58 pm
I suppose there are always rental units. Which would add no additional property tax revenues to the district at all.
I got the numbers of students from the feasibility study. 1000 students currently attending private schools that live within the PAUSD district boundaries. Plus many inquiries from families outside the district interested in moving to PAUSD for the program. All this was stated in the Feasibility study.
I didn't say we'd get all 1000. Its the upper limit of exposure for purpose of attempting at putting some brackets around a range of dollar impact. (I'm not even sure its the upper limit, because it doesn't include some unknown number of non-palo altans who would move here for the program.) I believe the lower limit I offered was $250,000, which would only take 25 new enrollees.
There was no quantification given for the potential numbers that would come from outside palo alto, and I had no idea how to estimate that. So if we use your 500, that raises the upper limite to 1500 = $15,000,000. If nothing else, it puts quite a few more names in the pool, further increasing the probabilities of enrollment growth, and in particular for loading the program with all new enrollees.
I believe there are many private Mandarin language schools in the immediate area. I guess PAUSD staff has a way of knowing if they have students that would otherwise be district enrollees attending private schools.
I think the incentive is fairly large for a family to move from a private program to a PAUSD quality public school program. I've heard it said elsewhere on these boards that private chinese school can cost $15,000 a year. That would be a $90,000 savings for a family that made it into the program in K. And even a $45,000 savings for a family that made it in by 3rd.
(In all grades above 1st, the attrition must be filled with mandarin proficient students at grade level, so I guess those will primarily be from private programs.)
And with sibling preference those savings could be double or tripled. (It didn't say anything about this in the feasibility study that I noticed, but I believe I saw a comment about sibling preference mentioned in either the grant and/or the original proposal (can't remember where off hand. But I think that's the way other choice programs work already.
a resident of Green Acres
on Dec 9, 2006 at 10:51 pm
I don't have anything against MI (in fact I signed early petitions), but I'd like to first see early elective language instruction available district-wide. Why offer a lottery calculus class before offering everyone math first? I'd be much more supportive of an MI lottery school if language instruction for early grades were a real alternative.
a resident of Midtown
on Dec 11, 2006 at 3:48 pm
I agree that language instruction in early grades should be a real alternative- in fact MI is one such alternative. I think what you mean by "language instruction" is typically referred to as FLES (Foreign Language in Elementary Schools).
Based on posted comments like "lets not offer Calculus until everyone gets a chance to take math" most of the people saying that FLES should come first imply that Immersion is just more FLES They believe that immersion kids just get a double-extra portion of something good in their curriculum. I think if you read up on this you will find that this is not how researchers or teachers see it. As you increase the amount of time devoted to the target language, a threshold is crossed and something different happens: the curriculum is delivered in the target language. They learn history in the language. They learn math in the language. Immersion is not an addition to the curriculum but a different way to deliver it (think Ohlone or Hoover). Most parents who want their children to enter Immersion would not be satisfied with FLES and most parents that support FLES would not want the amount of dedication to acquiring a target language needed to make immersion a success.
I fully support finding ways to make Foreign Language a more important part of curriculum here in Palo Alto. Lets not hold MI (or any other program that enriches the district) hostage by saying that FLES should be a pre-requisite.
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Dec 11, 2006 at 5:09 pm
Shan, I think you may misunderstand the problem. The disagreement is why are we giving the BEST to a few and ZERO to the rest? It really doesn't matter at all that immersion is the 'best' way - that's not the public schools job. The public school's job is to offer a reasonable education (or high quality educatoin if you think we can muster it), to all children equally. If language is important enough to be considered a basic need, it needs to get to all students. Even if the method is less than perfect.
Total fluency is not even a valid goal -its too rich for our system. It seem much more reasonable to give all kids a running start on language exposure - perhaps they enter 6th grade at 'level 2' instead of entering highschool at 'level 0'. This to me seems like a much more reasonable and equitable approach for a public school system.
Highly specialized approaches that concentrate enrichment in a very few students seems to me belongs in a private school environment, no matter what the subject.
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Dec 11, 2006 at 8:08 pm
sounds like they ought to make sure there isn't sibling preference in this program, or else some families could indeed gain a financial advantage by having their kids in PAUSD MI instead of any of the dozens of schools that teach Mandarin in this region.
a resident of Barron Park
on Dec 14, 2006 at 11:35 am
MI is an elitist program being proposed and funded by a very small minority of parents (mostly Chinese-Americans) that want something "special" for their children that, no doubt, would provide their kids with distinct life advantages.
The PASUD is a public institution and, therefore, has a mission to serve ALL students -- not just those from wealthy backgrounds.
The MI support group is rather small. But it is very vocal and well funded (witness the more than $60,000 dollars used to influence a "feasibility" report).
The vast vast majority of parents, however, once introduced to the arguments against MI, realize it is fatally flawed and not in the best interests of our district.
When I first heard about the idea - I thought "wow, this sounds cool. This would provide students with some great advantages, what's there to be opposed to?" But then I thought more about which students would benefit (the rich & already privileged) and what affects the program would have on those not selected (the erosion of neighborhood schools). Given what I now know about the program, I am actually appalled the District is still even considering it.
So here's the only way I could ever support an MI program - make it available ONLY to Title 1 students. [See Web Link ]
If MI is such a great thing and helps students academically then it should be offered first and foremost to those most in need. Would MI backers support making the program available to those with the fewest advantages? Of course not; their real interest is self-serving. Having the district pay for a MI program is certainly cheaper than sending their kids to private schools or paying for after school language tutors (the way many of us do with our kids).
MI supporters want the PAUSD to use our tax dollars to fund a special program for their kids.
I keep hearing that the "lottery" system will be fair and that every student that applies will have an "equal" chance of being one of the lucky 5% chosen. This misses the whole point of who will apply.
Will economically disadvantaged parents even know about this "choice" school?
As an example of self-selection just look at Hoover, a "choice" school with more traditional academic structure.
It's enrollment is open to "all" students by lottery. However, it sits with the lowest % of Free and Reduced price lunch students at 5% - only Ohlone is lower with 4%. In addition, Hoover also has the lowest % of Hispanic students (4%)in the district and the highest % of Asian students (62%). So, the "lottery" system is fair only in the sense that each "application" has an equal chance of being selected. The reality, however, is that self-selection drives outcomes that clearly show distinct differences.
{see Web Link)
There is no doubt that MI would produce a similar result. Those that would end up in the program (and gain its benefits) would not look like the district at large. The District has no business promoting the interests of one small group over the needs of all others - that's what private school is all about.
Many look to the existing Spanish-Immersion (SI) program as a model for why MI makes sense for the district. The only similarity is that instruction takes place in a non-English language. Let's look at Spanish for a moment. In California, 40% of the population speak a language other than English. Spanish, by far, is the largest category within this group at 25.8%. Chinese (both Mandarin and Cantonese) is a far far distant second at 2.6% (see Web Link)
I feel much more comfortable having my tax dollars fund SI given it helps students build relationships with the dominant second language group in our state that I do with helping students (primarily Chinese-American) be more successful in forging trade relations with China. Teaching Spanish helps bridge the gap between the "haves" and the "have nots." Teaching Mandarin helps those that already have privilege gain access to even greater economic benefits.
Choice programs, by definition, mean parents are sending their kids to schools farther away. There is the argument about increased traffic and safety but these (with funding) can be mitigated. What can not be mitigated, however, is the erosion of a sense of community that our neighborhood schools enjoy. Will MI parents be as likely to come to school wide community building events like the "ice cream social" or the "community conversation" when they live half way across town? Of course not. What makes our neighborhood schools special is that fact that we are neighbors. We get to know each other, our kids have play dates together, we see other at the local parks after school, etc. This is special and is lost by the introduction of more and more "choice" programs.
Measure A was passed with certain expectations about how the district would spend its time and resources. MI was not part of the conversation. Parents expect the district to spend its time on restoring programs that benefit all our children, not just a few. I voted for Measure A, but can hardly imagine supporting the district in a similar way should the district fail to live up to its promises. I suspect there are many parents who will also be less inclined to give should the board be foolish enough to pursue MI.
I realize that many on the other side are passionate about the benefits of MI. Consider yourselves lucky to have the money to privately fund language instruction for your child. As you grumble about the expense or the drive you need to make, please think about those in the district that do not have similar options.
Brian Kaplan received his MBA from the Haas School of Business at Berkeley and is currently pursuing a Masters of Education at Stanford University with the hopes of teaching history in the public school system.
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Dec 14, 2006 at 2:34 pm
I agree with the points made by Brian Kaplan indicating numerous reasons to oppose installing a select MI choice program now in PAUSD. Frankly, I think the proposal for MI was a curiosity, that's all, and that PAUSD is a big operation that has major operational challenges and ongoing issues to focus on: enrollement projections, facilities utilization and planning, district-wide programs, strategic and long-term goals, closing the achievement gap...
a resident of Midtown
on Dec 14, 2006 at 8:18 pm
Brian, You make some excellent points. I'm convinced with MI being such a difficult language to master, the attrition rate will also be higher than with SI. As a result, in addition to the self-selection you mentioned would exist at the outset, there will be additional selective pressures when a proficiency test in Mandarin is required to fill open spaces after Kindergarten. If the point of the program is to educate a cross section of our students in Mandarin, I'm afraid this program will be an utter failure.
I hope sent a copy of your letter to every board member as well.
a resident of Midtown
on Dec 14, 2006 at 8:56 pm
Brian Kaplan says:
*Mandarin Immersion is mainly for "Chinese-Americans"
*They are "rich & already privileged" (and they should feel "lucky to have the money to privately fund language instruction" for their children)
*MI kids "would not look like the district at large."
*He feels "much more comfortable having [his] tax dollars fund SI" rather than "helping students (primarily Chinese-American)"
From this, I think it's fair to say Brian Kaplan:
*believes no or few non-Asians would sign up for MI (false)
*has concluded that Chinese-Americans in Palo Alto are rich (I don't know)
*objects to funding a program in which most of the children do not look like the other kids (i.e. in which most look Chinese)
*is comfortable funding SI because it is packed with the impoverished (unsupported assumption; given the context one has to ask if it matters to him that there are fewer Chinese-Americans than there would be in MI)
Brian Kaplan's fixation on the race of kids who would enter MI is disturbing. Brian Kaplan's unsupported claim that Chinese-Americans in Palo Alto are richer than others is disturbing (the implication being that they are an economically dominant race). Brian Kaplan's introduction of race into this debate is disturbing. Brian Kaplan's introduction of the wealth of families is disturbing.
Let's be clear. Race does not belong in this discussion. Wealth does not belong in this discussion.
a resident of Fairmeadow
on Dec 14, 2006 at 9:16 pm
I was a title 1/free lunch kid in the California public schools. I will be thrilled to have the opportunity to enter my Caucasian children in a lottery for MI.
a resident of Midtown
on Dec 14, 2006 at 9:17 pm
I find your post troubling or a number of reasons but I'll focus on two:
Firstly it is racist to say this program should not go ahead because it benefits Chinese-Americans. Bottom line there is enough demand among Palo Alto tax-payers and you should not be throwing around the race card.
Secondly as a fellow Haas B-School grad I'm ashamed of your lack of economic insight and parochialism.
You state that "Teaching Spanish helps bridge the gap between the "haves" and the "have nots." It sure it does but I suggest you look at the average income of all Chinese around the word and you would see that teaching Chinese helps bridge an even bigger gap.
You also say that all the "rich folks" who want this program should go to private school. By killing this program you will destroy any chance for the poor parts of our district to learn Chinese. If you really believe in what you espouse- more opportunity for the less advantaged- why would you want to make it so only the rich can afford it?
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Dec 15, 2006 at 2:55 pm
I notice that the alternative/choice program guidelines state the program should reach an ethnic, racial, socio-economic population representative of the community. I don't think the the board members who wrote that were trying to be racist -were they?
How will the program be measured against those requirements?
I also notice recent court rulings posted on ACLUs website also find school districts that segregate (by accident or by choice) in proportions far beyond the diversity balance of the community are violation of the law.
It think it is not racist to bring up these questions. I think it is uncomfortable for us to speak about openly. I think we should be vigiliant to protect the caring diversity in our community, and not to allow segregations (I believe I've heard this referred to as 'balkanization'). It would be a very dangerous unintended consequence if we find ourselves OPTIONALLY creating racially segregated schools.
I disagree with posters who blame brian for trying to point this out, as clumsy and difficult as it can be.
The board should show us they are looking at model programs carefully to prevent this risk. Unfortuantely, this is one of the major areas that the feasibiliyt fails - it does not even discuss the issues or the risks, or the preventative measures. They do not being any PAUSD or comparative district statistics to the table to prove or disprove how this will play out.
PAUSD should also be watching its current programs to make sure we are not creating these racially segregated pockets 'by choice'. Its not good for the community, its not good for our children.
a resident of Midtown
on Dec 15, 2006 at 11:44 pm
Observer, it's not just clumsy but racist to oppose a program because of the race you think it will benefit.
If a disproportionate number of ethnically Chinese apply for the program, then they will be over-represented. So be it. That is not segregation. (And no, there is no requirement that choice programs be racially representative of the community.)
Drop the racism.
a resident of Barron Park
on Dec 17, 2006 at 12:34 pm
Actually it is racist for the District to proceed with ANY program that offers a direct benefit to one particular group over the rest of the students in the district. So I agree, drop the racism and kill MI.
a resident of Midtown
on Dec 17, 2006 at 1:13 pm
Your point about "bridging the gap with MI" makes no sense.
Let me ask it this way. What is more likely:
1) PAUSD students fluent in Mandarin ending up working in rural areas of China OR
2) SI students ending up serving (or being better connected to) the Latino community here in the United States?
My gut tells me that Palo Alto students fluent in Mandarin are likely be end up being good capitalists; helping the US do business in China.
I'm not saying this is a bad thing. The US could use more Mandarin speakers; but given the enormous costs (inequities created and erosion of neighborhood schools) public K-5 education is NOT the place to develop Mandarin speakers.
Parents motivated to have their young kids learn Mandarin should seek out ways to do so privately.
The argument Mr. Kaplan was making was that SI serves a more understandable public good; helping kids of priviledge connect to members of the community (local, state, and natinal) that don't have as many priviledges. Sorry if this comes across as "parochial."
MI is totally different. It helps connect kids to economic advantages. You have to come clean on this. The current national interest in Mandarin stems from China being perceived as the next great economic superpower (and has nothing to due with humanitarian goals).
Mandarin should be offered as an elective in public high schools along with Spanish, French, German, etc. High school students (and their parents) who see the value in Mandarin can receive exposure to the language and use college as a time to delve more deeply as they see fit.
Thanks for listening.
- Lisa, another parent against MI
a resident of Midtown
on Dec 17, 2006 at 1:52 pm
Do you think that PAUSD should cancel the (incredibly popular, 11 year old ) Spanish Immersion program, and that it only benefits one particular group. Or is there something special about Mandarin? If you think there is something "special" about Mandarin, that is what is going to sound like racism to me. For the record, I am Caucasian.
Also following your argument, that all programs should benefit all, maybe we should get rid of Hoover and Ohlone too. Also, maybe we should cancel the football team or electives like AP physics or orchestra? They only benefit a small number of students in the district. But for people involved in them they are really important.
MI, like SI will be open to all students in a lottery. The lottery is blind and they don't ask ethnicity so all have the same chance. As I have mentioned earlier, my Mandarin speaking Caucasian son will probably enter the lottery for "Mandarin speakers" not "English speakers" so assumptions about race (racism) do not always hold true.
I believe that having an opportunity to enter an MI program in PAUSD is a beneift "for the entire district." Just as having a SI program is. I am not going to enter the lottery for SI, Hoover or Ohlone but I am really happy that parents who are passionate about Spanish immersion, structured education and open education have options in PAUSD. I think that diversity of opportunities, along side strong neighborhood schools, is what makes PAUSD great.
a resident of Midtown
on Dec 17, 2006 at 3:39 pm
MI will help kids connect to the Asian communities here in the United States, not just "rural China." I think connection to other cultures, including local ones, is one of the great opportunities afforded by immersion programs. I am not sure why you impose a "privilege" filter on this exposure. Any program that helps encourage cross-cultural interactions is valuable to the whole community, no matter what the culture. My son was invited to attend a traditional Chinese birthday banquet with a friend lately. He was the only non-Chinese person there. There was probably no English spoken all night. I think that must have been a pretty cool experience for him, and I bet the food was tasty. In my opinion this doesn't matter, but since it seems to in your opinion, the guest of honor was a friend of the family who is in his late '60's from Tianjin, China. He speaks little English and just was laid off from his assembly job in Fremont where he made minimum wage.
As far as opportunities to interact with other cultures, Mandarin immersion kids will have many as Palo Alto is 17.2% Asian (these are not all Mandarin speakers, but I would guess the majority are) and only 4.8% Hispanic. In fact in the PAUSD feasibility study it states "Mandarin speakers are now the largest language group other than English in PAUSD." I am proud that we have a Spanish immersion program. I think it makes a lot of sense to add a Mandarin immersion one now.
For Palo Alto ethnicity data See: Web Link
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Dec 27, 2006 at 3:18 pm
It would be nice to get a breakdown on the Asian number mentioned in this web-link: Web Link
White 44,391 75.8%
African-American 1,184 2%
Asian 10,090 17.2%
American Indian & Alaskan 122 0.2%
Other 827 1.4%
Mixed Race 1,900 3.2%
Hispanic (included in categories above) 2,722 4.6%
This is a very limited set of categories and could mean anything. I really do hope that the feasibility study wasn't just quoting this number and using it to justify MI.
Where did the numbers come from in the study and can we see a breakdown?
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Dec 27, 2006 at 6:00 pm
Bill; not opposing MI because of the race I think it will serve. Opposing MI on many fronts, one of them being that it will serve a disproportionate number of a single race, entirely non-representative of the community. The ACLU has helped many school districts across the country fight racist programs that create segregation by 'choice' or that disproportionately benefit one group over all others. Its very ironic that the ones crying race loudest are the ones ignoring and trying to hide and deny and sweep under the rug the hard fact (presented in the feasibility study) that the program will start out disproportionately serving native chinese, and will continue to build its chinese population to the exclusion of other races.
Tell us again - How is it racist to oppose a racist program?
By the way, if you were proposing a program to serve white only, black only, pink only, purple only, green only, you'd be on the receiving end of the same argument. Frankly, I couldn't care less what ethnicity expects special treatement. None are entitled to it.
a resident of Greenmeadow
on Dec 27, 2006 at 6:48 pm
And do you think the ACLU will similarly fight to close the Spanish immersion program which, according to you, so clearly serves a disportionate number of a single race, entirely non-representative of the community?
It's pretty clear that you're racist.
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Dec 27, 2006 at 7:53 pm
I don't know, good question. At the same time we ask them about MI, we'll ask them about SI. As I said, Pot Calling the Kettle Black...
By the way, will the board be counting legal fees as part of the incremental costs?


text: What we mean by that is as the bees continue to walk across the capped comb they leave dirt making the capped comb darker. It no longer has the bright white appearance of freshly capped comb. We try not to leave comb honey on the hive very long after it is capped.


text:
HURTS Reveal Clip of New Song in Video EPK
Coming with the news today that you can now pre-order HURTS' first official single, Better Than Love, the boys from Manchester have just unleashed a new video EPK that has Theo and Adam explaining their processes and methodologies behind some of the best brooding-pop that I've heard in a long while.
Fresh off their highly successful NME tour, Theo takes a moment to chat and wax with fans. Read his words below.
Our first tour.
From the reeds on banks of the concrete rivers of Glasgow, to the lofty heights of Mount Northampton. A boat that rocked and a church that blasphemed in between.
The last three weeks have left us with open eyes and aching hearts. Showing you our songs is something we have resisted for so long, but it makes us so happy to finally share our lives with you. And that you welcomed us so warmly. The theatre, the drama, the gin, Richard, nearly getting arrested in Wrexham, the four tiers of eyes at Koko and the purple rain of Stoke. Every moment that will last forever. It was something to remember, and build a castle upon.
We must finish the album we played you now. Then play it for you some more when the sun comes out. A winter album for the summer breeze. Thank you for singing the words. Thank you for watching and judging. A glass is raised, with your lipstick on the rim.
Until soon,
From the reeds on banks of the concrete rivers of Glasgow, to the lofty heights of Mount Northampton. A boat that rocked and a church that blasphemed in between.
So that's that...and this is the new video EPK, with a clip of the song Stay. Highly enjoyable and utterly amazing.
mp3: HURTS - Better Than Love (Jamaica Remix)


text:
Private Hideaway in the North Carolina Mountains
Alpine Village Resort • Burnsville, NC
Escape Kit
- A Three- ($264) or Four-Night ($339) Stay for Up to Four Guests in a One-Bedroom Cottage
- Or, a Three- ($309) or Four-Night ($399) Stay for Up to Six Guests in a Two-Bedroom Cottage
- Cleaning Fee Included
- Combine Vouchers to Stay Up to Seven Nights
The Destination
One of the country's most beautiful roads, the Blue Ridge Parkway winds through the signature silvery haze and oak-speckled peaks of the Appalachians. Tucked within this leafy landscape—surrounded by the Pisgah National Forest and Mount Mitchell State Park—the town of Burnsville is overflowing with Southern hospitality. Here, guests can hike, bike, or raft through the North Carolina hills by day and devour delicious country cuisine by night.
The Digs
The Swiss chalet-style vacation homes of Alpine Village Resort offer amazing views of the Blue Ridge Mountains' rolling hills and lush valleys. Located just minutes from several national and state parks, this picturesque property is a perfect home base for your nature-rich getaway. Cozy and convenient, the resort's one- and two-bedroom cottages are outfitted with all of the comforts of home, including fully equipped kitchens, fireplaces, and cable TVs. Splash in the property's heated swimming pool when you visit between Memorial Day and Labor Day, or arrange a game of cards in the clubhouse.
The Diversions
• Biltmore Estate
• Mount Mitchell State Park
• Linville Caverns
• Chimney Rock and Hickory Nut Gorge
"[On the Blue Ridge Parkway], magnificent vistas and the natural beauty of the forests, wildlife, and wildflowers combine with pioneer history to make this a scenic and fascinating route."-- Frommer's
escapes 30-day promise
LivingSocial gives you up to 30 days to return your unused voucher for a full refund. Once you've made a reservation, you are subject to the merchant's cancellation and refund policy. If you want to secure your preferred dates of travel, we strongly recommend that you complete reservation with the merchant within 30 days of your purchase—after that, LivingSocial will not issue any refunds.
the fine print
- Combine vouchers to stay up to seven nights
- Only valid for stays between now and October 31, 2013
- Reservations required and subject to availability; must be made via email and at least 2 weeks in advance
- Please visit www.Alpine-Village-Resort.com to check availability, first come first serve basis
- Not valid toward existing or room block reservations
- Merchant cancellation/rescheduling policy and fees apply once booking is made; voucher subject to forfeiture
- Additional guests may be added based on availability and at an additional cost of $25 per person per night (16 and older) and $15 per person per night (under 15 years old)
- No pets allowed
- Taxes/resort fee not included; payable directly to the property
- Nights must be spent consecutively; all inclusions must be redeemed during one stay
- Blackout date(s): May 20-31, June 24-July 8 and September 2-13
- Other conditions apply • PAID AND PROMOTIONAL VALUES EXPIRES ON October 31, 2013 • PAID VALUE DOES NOT EXPIRE • PAID VALUE EXPIRES ON October 31, 2018 • PROMOTIONAL VALUE EXPIRES ON October 31, 2013 • Enjoy By October 31, 2013
Other conditions apply
Except where noted in the fine print:
• Cannot be combined with any other offer or promotion
• Tax and gratuity are not included
• Merchant is responsible for the quality of the products or services provided to you at redemption
• LivingSocial Terms and Conditions - https://www.livingsocial.com/terms
Original Price:
- 0% savings
- remaining


text:
Cross country ski lessons offered to grades 2-6
Cross country ski lessons for beginning and experienced cross country skiers in grades 2-6 will be held from 3-4:30 p.m. Mondays, Wednesdays or Fridays at the Eagle View Elementary School Nature Center.
Participants should meet in Room 171 at Eagle View. Lessons are sponsored in part by the Nordic Ski Club. Equipment will be provided or the child can bring his or her own.
Transportation for fifth- and sixth-grade students from the middle school to Eagle View will be provided via school bus.
Instructor Deanne Trottier will offer the following classes:
• Beginners on Mondays, Jan. 7, 14 and 28, Feb. 4, 11 and 25. Fee is $30.
• Intermediate on Wednesdays, Jan. 9, 16, 23 and 30, Feb. 6 and 13. Fee is $30.
• Intermediate: Fridays, Jan. 11, 18 and 25, Feb. 1 and 8. This group will travel to ski at local groomed ski trails. Parents must provide transportation. The instructor will provide a schedule closer to the start date. Fee is $25 or $6 per time.
Pre-registration is required. Classes fill early. Contact Pequot Lakes Community Education for more information or to register at 218-568-9200.


text: Overprotective Parents don't like to see their child unhappy. They want to protect them from hurt, pain, failure, stress and rejection. Parents want to give their teen every comfort they deserve. Undoubtedly, all these points sound good. But have you ever realized what your child is missing because of this attitude, he is not familiar with real truth of life. Life is a balance example of good and bad experience. If you don't teach them negative part then they would not be able to bear any stress or failure in their future. This is also a big barrier in their success path.


text:
Dulce Inspired Photo Shoot by Ozzy Garcia & Luxe FeteThe first three words that came out of my mouth when I saw these photos were Oh...My...Goodness! And the next three were I need chocolate, stat. Ok, so that's four. But really, after looking at these sweet and delectable images, you too,
View CreditsRead More


text:
Established in 1986, St. Louis Children's Hospital pediatric heart transplant program has given new life to more than 380 patients, ranging in age from 3 days to 22 years. It is one of the most active pediatric heart transplant programs in the United States, with patients coming from as far away as Florida, Minnesota and Texas.
Berlin Heart Device Saves Children at St. Louis Children's Hospital
Our Pediatric Heart Transplant Team of cardiothoracic surgeons, anesthesiologists, cardiologists, nurse clinicians, nursing staff members, social workers and therapists works in concert with the family to prepare for the heart transplant surgery, keep the patient in optimal health during the wait for an organ and rebuild health and strength following the heart transplant surgery procedure.
Diagnoses that may require heart transplant
- Congenital heart defects
- Cardiomyopathy
- Defects such as hypoplastic left heart syndrome
About the procedure
- Typically a four-hour procedure, heart transplant at St. Louis Children's Hospital averages about an 11-day hospital stay.
- The one-year survival rate for children who have received heart transplants at St. Louis Children's Hospital is approaching 90 percent.
- Infants (under 1 year old) who received new hearts at St. Louis Children's Hospital have an 84 percent survival rate compared to the national one-year survival rate for the same age group of 67 percent.
Baby Liam, born with a congenital heart defect, receives a heart transplant.
St. Louis Children's Hospital's one-year survival rate for children over 1 year of age is 86 percent vs. 81 percent nationally.
- Both the infants and older pediatric patients exhibit normal development levels for their ages. The majority of children attend school and participate in a variety of normal childhood activities.
Post-surgery follow-up care
With 75 percent of St. Louis Children's Hospital's heart transplant referrals coming from outside the metropolitan St. Louis area, the hospital has developed a strong network of cardiologists throughout the region who are familiar with heart transplant follow-up care.
The goal is to return pediatric transplant patients to their local cardiologists for follow-up care in an effort to increase patient and family satisfaction and convenience, and to facilitate a combined team approach for continued care.
Frequent contact between the heart transplant team and the local cardiologist ensures continued communication about the patient's progress and treatment plan.


text:
Reasons Will be Cool
Reasons Will be Cool
I personally like the game play and community. There are many people wanting to party and the skills used in this game are amazing. I didn't get to the trading/selling concept in the game yet.
Currently Playing~ Nothing.
Its worth a shot... every game is.
The GFX arnt bad, the gameplay is alright...
But dont take our word for it. Go an give it a try.
Proudly spending your 2 cents.
Moonies Plox!
*Hunting person who invented Bit Torrent*
Nothing like a awesome Dungeon Crawler
Or a great First Person Shooter
i forgot we had a SoF forum. Sounds like a good game. I did play in the Closed Beta, but they did not do it well. Everyone started at lvl 60 with best gear, absolutely pointless. Quit after 5 minutes
Currently Playing:
Aion: IGN-Famous
Race/Class: Elyos/Templar
Steam ID: NonConGuy


text:
I am hoping one day to become a small bee keeper. I have a great affinity for the value of the bee population, and am greatly concerned over the statistics that I have read about the decline. My dad used to talk about bees when we would wander through his 1 1/2 acre garden...I miss those times : )
<edited by moderator>
Thank you & it is really nice to BEE here, looking forward to learning more.


text:
A process in which a person feels they are under extreme amounts of tempestuous pressure and collapse emotionally. The process often results in violent, yet beautiful, emotional breakouts. Not everyone is susceptible to lithification, and those who are take great pride in their heightened sensitivity.
Chad likes his steak well-done, his beer cold, and his sports uninterrupted. He is a simple man but complicated women toying with his emotions causes him to undergo extreme lithification that will reduce him to tears and to throwing his phone against the wall.
by bloomersnake April 20, 2011


text:
Most British Go tournaments use the McMahon system. The McMahon system is designed to ensure that games in a tournament are most likely to be even. Each player in the tournament starts off with a McMahon score (or MMS) that is equivalent to his or her grade. For example, a 4-kyu player would start at -4, and a 1-dan player would start at 0. However, players above a certain grade near the top of the tournament are demoted to this grade, in order to produce a pool of players with the highest McMahon score represented. This grade is known as the McMahon bar (see section 9.2). Each win for a player increases his or her MMS by one.
(Note: An alternative method, commonly used in Europe, sets the score of all players at 20 kyu or below to zero. Like the UK scale, each grade step corresponds to an increment of 1 McMahon point, so shodan has the value 20. A disadvantage of this scale, however, is that it is likely to make players below 20 kyu feel that they are not yet strong enough to enter a tournament.)
When pairing players against each other, the draw program (or human organiser) attempts to pair players with the same MMS against each other. This has the effect that, if a player enters at the wrong grade, their MMS will gradually come closer to that of players of their own strength. For example, if someone declares too high a grade, they are less likely to win, and so their MMS will stay the same while other players' scores rise - until finally the player meets those of roughly the same strength.
Because a player's starting score is determined by their grade, a player who was 7 dan would have a massive advantage and the best chance to win the tournament, as such a player would start at a very good MMS. To counteract this, and to give as many people as possible an equal chance of winning the tournament, players at or above a certain rank all begin at the same MMS. This rank is called the bar. For example, if the bar is set at 3 dan (which is an MMS of 2) then no player can start at an MMS of more than 2, no matter what their grade. This gives a pool of players starting with the highest McMahon score. The optimum size for this pool depends on the number of rounds to be played. Rough guidelines are as follows:
The constraints on which these figures are based are
If you are using Geoff Kaniuk's GoDraw to create the draw, it will set an appropriate bar automatically.
In effect the top players play a knock-out to determine the winner, so there should not be more than 8 players above the bar for a 3 round or 16 players for a 4 round tournament.
(Note: In some larger European tournaments, there is a supergroup, which is one point above the McMahon bar. This is used where there would otherwise be too many players above the McMahon bar.)
Although the McMahon system decreases the chances of uneven games, they still occur, especially where there is a large range of entry grades. The handicap in the McMahon system is normally one less than the current difference in the players McMahon scores, with a handicap of 1 meaning a no-komi game. If there is no handicap, colours are selected (more or less) at random. Therefore, a player may end up taking White even against someone on a McMahon score one better than them. It is normal to try to organise the draw so that, as far as possible, players play an equal number of games as each colour.
If either player declared a grade at or above the bar, then the game is even.
(Note: It is not a requirement that the handicap be one less than the McMahon difference; it is normal in Europe to use difference-2, and some tournaments use the difference directly.)
A player who misses a round (with the tournament directors consent) sleeps for that round. For the purpose of producing the pairing, a sleeping player is deemed to have achieved an average score for each round missed. In order to prevent biasing the draw by matching players who sleep, an extra McMahon point is awarded after every two rounds missed instead of a half point for every round missed. This score increase does not, however, count as a win.
In more important tournaments, players in the top McMahon group (or Supergroup if there is one) are not allowed to sleep for any round. Sleeping players who would be in the top group are removed by reducing their initial McMahon score by one or possibly two points. This prevents the lower group players from interfering with top group players in later rounds.
If a player wins by default (usually because their opponent fails to show up), their MMS is increased by one. This counts as a win for the purposes of the tournament, but not for the purposes of the EGF rating system. It is not counted as a missed round for either player. (Note: In practice, this depends on how you choose to record the result; for simplicity, a win by default may well be entered as a normal win, in which case none of this applies.)
At the end of the tournament, the winner is the player with the best McMahon score.
There may be a tie for first place, and it is very likely that there will be ties for other positions. The tie breaker used varies from tournament to tournament; commonly used tie breaks include:
This is the most commonly used tie break in the UK.
If two players start off on the same McMahon score, and end up with the same CUSS (having played all games) then their CUSP will also be the same. This follows since at any round McMahon score is equal to initial McMahon score plus winning points up to that round. So one cannot use CUSS and CUSP as first and second level tie-breakers. CUSP is easy to calculate by hand and is therefore recommended for use as the tie-breaker in small tournaments.
There is, however, a serious flaw associated with the concept of SODOS. This tie break depends on the scale chosen, and it is possible that the final ordering can change depending on the origin of the McMahon scale (i.e., whether is is 0 for shodan, as in the UK, or 0 for 20 kyu, as commonly the case in Europe). This tie break is therefore strongly not recommended.
It is a good idea to decide in advance what to do in the event of a tie, as even these tie breakers are not necessarily enough to separate players. For most tournaments, it is reasonable for first place to be shared. For more important tournaments, such as the Challenger's League, a play-off game is used.
[1] http://britgo.org/organisers/handbook/handbookch10.html
[2] http://britgo.org/organisers/handbook/handbookch8.html
[3] http://britgo.org/organisers/handbook/handbookch8.html#tailhandbookch8.html
[4] http://britgo.org/organisers/handbook/handbookpa2.html#handbookch9.html
[5] http://britgo.org/organisers/handbook/handbookch9.html