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forum: Food & Drink
Pages: 1 2 | Home » Food & Drink » What kind of oil?
#1 Sun 28 Jan 07 6:33pm
- Member
- From La Paz, Bolivia
- Member since Sat 26 Jun 04
What kind of oil?
I was wondering what kind of oil is best for deep frying, especially french fries(chips).
Does anyone know which oil is most common in restaurants and snackbars for this purpose?
#2 Mon 29 Jan 07 7:53pm
- Member
- From England
- Member since Sun 01 Jan 06
Re: What kind of oil?
I don't make chips at home (no deep fat fryer) but my mum always made them with sunflower oil and her's are the best chips I've ever tasted (not that i am biased )! She just chops nice fresh potatoes, dries them a little in kitchen roll and puts them into hot oil in the deep fat fryer until they are golden brown.
#3 Mon 29 Jan 07 8:31pm
- Member Occupation secretary
- From Belgium
- Member since Sun 13 Aug 06
Re: What kind of oil?
I also use sunflower oil
For the perfect fries :
Chop your potatoes, rinse in water, thoroughly dry in a clean kitchen towel.
Fry 6-8 minutes at +/- 150-160° - drain and let cool of a little
Fry for the second time 2-3 minutes at 180°
Perfect golden crisp - Belgian style !
Last edited by Sanneke (Mon 29 Jan 07 8:33pm)
#4 Tue 30 Jan 07 4:36am
- Forum champ Occupation Retired Clergy & Computer Consultant
- From Bradford, West Yorks
- Member since Mon 03 Jul 06
Re: What kind of oil?
It depends on your taxte.
Cooking chips in oil is a very recent innovation - up until about 25/30 years ago, tgey were always cooked in beef dripping, and many wuld argue that, for the best chips, that is still the best way. generally, Fish & Chip shops in the north of England still use dripping for preerence.
However, if using oil, you need an oil which is neutral in flavour, and has a high smoke point.
Sunflower is ok, as is corn oil, or even generic "vegetable oil". Grapeseed or groundnut oil are better, though usally more expensive.
I would avoid using olive oil for deep-frying, unless you canget hold of Pomace - a highly refined very light olive oil.
sweetie-pie - you don't need a deep-fat fryer to do chips - just use a large, deep saucepan - you can get a "chip basket" for them, but not really necessary.
#5 Tue 30 Jan 07 5:48am
The Cuban Chef
- Member Occupation peace and duck grease
- From united states
- Member since Mon 10 Jul 06
Re: What kind of oil?
i try not to fry.......... gordon ramsey has the best recipe that involves baking but still tasts fried
non the less
peanut oil is the best for frying, but i use alittle mix of peanut,evoo,and butter
#6 Tue 30 Jan 07 10:16am
- Forum champ Occupation Retired Clergy & Computer Consultant
- From Bradford, West Yorks
- Member since Mon 03 Jul 06
Re: What kind of oil?
Wide generalisations aren't really a lot of practical use.
Different frying techniques and ingredients call for different oils.
A mix of peanut, evoo and butter should NOT be used for deep frying - it would burn far too easily, and impart a bitter flavour to whatever is cooked in it.
In general, Extra-Virgin Olive Oil should not be used for frying - and never for deep frying or stir-frying.
Butter - unless clarified (ghee) - will burn in deep fat frying before the fat is hot enough to fry chips.
Peanut oil has a hgh smoke point, and is therefore good for deep frying and stir-frying.
As a general rule, oil or fat for deep frying should be refined rather than raw - and the greater the degree of refinement, the higher the "smoke point" - the temperature at which the oil burns and goes bitter.
Oil used for deep frying can be re-used a few times, as long as it is filtered after each use to prevent the buildup of burnt particles. The oil should look clear and be light in colour - if it goes dark, then dump it.
#7 Tue 30 Jan 07 10:19am
Dave Barker
- Forum champ Occupation Chef
- From At the stove...
- Member since Tue 29 Jun 04
Re: What kind of oil?
A ex-head chef of mine swore by peanut oil too... but it did work out to be a bit expensive.
Beef dripping does make the chips taste great... the same sort of taste as when you do roast potatoes in the same tray as your joint of beef!
Try a few different oils and see which you prefere, that's the way to go!
Cooking is all about experimenting, and tweaking recipies until you end up with a dish that you really like, I sometimes think that people forget how much fun it can be playing with food...
So ignore your mums, go on... play with your food
#8 Tue 30 Jan 07 3:37pm
- Member
- From La Paz, Bolivia
- Member since Sat 26 Jun 04
Re: What kind of oil?
I heard about beef dripping(I think McDonalds also used to use it), but you don't get that here in Bolivia.
I read that many restaurants use peanut oil(which you also don't get here).
My brother and sister each have a restaurant and use soy oil, but I heard that it's not supposed to be that healthy and was also thinking about rather using sunflower oil.
Corn oil is suppose to be good but it's too expensive.
My options are more or less soy or sunflower oil.
My sister has a German restaurant and we're planning to open up a second one, more like a snackbar, just selling simple food like sausages, schnitzel, fries and so on.
Schnitzel and fries need to be deep fried, so the oil can't be too expensive.
I'm also thinking about the taste and health factors of the oil.
#9 Wed 31 Jan 07 6:12pm
- Member
- From England
- Member since Sun 01 Jan 06
Re: What kind of oil?
"sweetie-pie - you don't need a deep-fat fryer to do chips - just use a large, deep saucepan - you can get a "chip basket" for them, but not really necessary"
I have seen the results of someone dropping hot oil over themselves after frying chips and ever since I have avoided deep fat frying! (Bizarrely, the person I saw doing this was my mother and I still ask for chips whenever I go home .)
#10 Wed 31 Jan 07 11:49pm
- Forum champ Occupation Retired Clergy & Computer Consultant
- From Bradford, West Yorks
- Member since Mon 03 Jul 06
Re: What kind of oil?
Any time you cook, you have got to be careful.
Wise cooks keep a first-aid kit, fire extinguisher and fire blanket at hand!
I've only set the kitchen on fire once:)
Pages: 1 2 | Home » Food & Drink » What kind of oil?


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subset: commoncrawl


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A term meaning a person who is mentally unstable. A bit of a psycho or nutter. Also a person who thinks you are their bf/gf when you are infact not!
Yeah he went mental coz he saw me in a club with another guy...think he thought we were going out....we never even met up properly.... what a toot de la fruit!
by Shecki B February 20, 2007


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Do I need a batting layer when I'm using denim to make a rag quilt?
Printable View
Do I need a batting layer when I'm using denim to make a rag quilt?
Hope you get an answer soon as i know there were a couple doing denim quilts that could help you with that question as I'm interested to know too.
Flannel works well
Do I have to use a layer between, since denim is so heavy? Or is preference?Quote:
Originally Posted by BMP
It's preference. It will depend on if you want a warmer quilt or not.
I've made a denim rag quilt with denim and flannel...believe me it was warm and heavy. I would shorten your stitch length. I left mine normal and some of the seams are coming apart, but that could be that it is well-used by my son.
You don't have to have a layer between. I have made them with just two layers of good flannel.
I use the denim as a foundation piece in my rag quilts, so I have the strips pieced to the denim. Other than those 2 layers, I don't put anything into my denim rag quilts.
I used a layer of batting when I did my denim quilt. It was a bit on the heavier side and it was nice and warm. If you do put a layer of batting lengthen your stitch a little. I was told to lengthen my stitch before I quilted anything because I was going through denim, batting, and flannel and a regular stitch would have been very difficult to do with all those thick layers


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text: I drilled a hole under the one i'm building now. Even if you don't there are ways to get it out if you really needed too. Like, drill the hole a little deeper in the pin, there should already be an indentation there and tap it with an appropriate sized tap. Screw in a little bolt and get yourself some kind of slide hammer setup and it should come out. Alot easier than removing the block from the receiver and having to refinish. Also, if the tapped hole will bother you, flip the pin over, no one will know different.


text: I went to a friends house today who is uneducated on bees and proper removals to discover a 6+ year old hive that was destroyed in an attempted removal/killing. I was disappointed to find that that hive was unsalvageable but glad to know that there is a hive in a nearby porch column. Was told that the column hive entrance was "soaked with wasp spray". Would this be a hive worth getting?


text:
Hospice appreciates hospitality
I would like to take this opportunity to thank Christ Lutheran Church in Soldotna for their generosity and hospitality on behalf of the board of directors, staff, and volunteers. The Christ Lutheran congregation and their Pastor Randy Parshall have been so gracious in granting the use of their facility over the last 7 years to conduct local hospice volunteer training. We are blessed with a comfortable room to host our presentations and a kitchen that meets our needs perfectly. Our volunteer training requires the completion of a 30 hour course over a 2 week time-span. Hospice volunteers are taught the hospice philosophy of death and dying. Hospice care involves a team of trained volunteers in an approach tailored to help the patient and their family cope with a life threatening illness. A community that gives together stays together and Christ Lutheran is an exemplary model of this. Their support of our local community does not go unnoticed.


text:
clutch superkit MSK230 for Suzuki GSX-R 600/750
- Description
TRW Lucas Clutch Superkit
All-inclusive kit with friction plates, steel washers, clutch springs and, if necessary, clutch cover gasket.
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Fragen zum Produkt


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300 1 sound disc (75 min.) :|b digital, stereo. ; |c 4 3/4 in. +|e 1 booklet (23 p. :ill., ; 12 in.)306 011500500 Duration: 1 hr., 15 min.
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A. Gifts and materials ordered through the Acquisitions Unit:For series in a 490 field with first indicator zero:
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text: I meant more than Leyland is over-estimating him. I think Berry is better than Rayburn. I would say that Berry does some things well, like bunt and run. Jury is out on whether he is a decent ballplayer tho. I need a little bigger sample. He started out well, but so did Chris Shelton.


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Amplivox Premium Travel Buddy 50W PA with Wired Mic
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(8 lbs. with batteries)
Audience Size: Up to 1,000. Room Size: Up to 10,000 sq. ft. Compact 50 watt powerhouse of presentation versatility! Use Indoors or Outdoors. Weighs only 4 lbs. (8 lbs. with batteries). Contains Amplivox 50-watt multimedia stereo amplifier with one 6" x 8" Jensen design speaker built into rugged, durable case; Includes professional cardioid dynamic mic with 15 foot cord, shoulder strap, and 2 audio interface cables ( 7-ft; stereo 3.5mm male/2 RCA jacks; computer interface cable 5-ft; stereo 3.5mm male/male jacks. This system is also an excellent companion for your video projector or laptop. Power with 10 D-cell alkaline batteries (not included) for up to 200 hours; S1460 International AC Adapter/recharger; or S1465 Rechargeable Nicad Battery Pack (requires S1460).
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- Optional Rechargeable S1465 Nicad Battery Pack (requires S1460)
Assembled Country
Assembled Size
11 x 13 x 4
Component Country


text: I've seen Jernigan in on some plays. He looks like he could be a playmaker, i think he needs more playing time. As that slot receiver he could be perfect with cruz and nicks on the outside. The return against they Saints was the best, but he leaves much to be desired. Guy can't catch a cold on PR. Bust or Breakout?


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|GTA V Latest News | #GTAV | #GTAOnline
2004 San Andreas For a Great Price
GTAGaming.com - General News | @ 11:51 AM MDT | By rappo
Anyone who was thinking of or has bought a copy of San Andreas knows that it is going for $49.99 everywhere you can buy it. Well, I have found a great deal that many people may enjoy. Over at EB Games, you can save $20 on any "Coming Soon" title when you trade-in 2 PlayStation 2, Xbox, or GameCube games.* Among these "Coming Soon" titles is GTA: San Andreas which will be available at EB Games on October 19. So, if you want a copy of San Andreas for $29.99, I suggest you buy one as soon as possible! Remember, this is for the PS2. San Andreas won't be sold on any other console until further notice. Oh, and check out what the * was for...
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text:
i just went look on imdb the finale isnt til jan 18th.
but what will Peter become?
quote:i just look at the pictures in the op. i'm easily distracted by shiny things.
Check my OP, pointed that out...no one reads that, haha
quote:i dont know what to do. i went upload it on photobucket then tried it and it still said can't do it for basketball reasons
I'm holding off my sig and avi just as a principle of the whole thing.. you should get jeffster up as soon as possible..
basketball reasons
It is downright criminal that John Noble has never even been nominated for an Emmy.
Love the return of Nina.
When Peter's hair fell out and he gave that Peterserver head tilt at the very end, I gasped out loud.
As someone who doesn't go out much on Fridays (kids' ballgames and other kid shit) - Fringe has been my "Friday Wind Down Date Night".
I am SO going to miss the Bishops.
BTW, I follow John Noble on Twitter. He is hilarious and so smart - his tweets even read like Walter.
quote:i outed myself in the last one
Now that Yuri and I have outed ourselves on the OT, you should all join it.. j/k j/k
quote:if auburn beats bama lsu goes to sec championship. it is very acceptable and pretty much required
That is never acceptable.. EVER!
quote:yea i saw it. i didnt think nothing of it though. i will have to find out
btw.. did you notice what I blacked out of my picture? ask CP3 to tell you if you don't know.
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text:
[quote user="CDN_G-FAN"]
funny the difference in the franchise fan bases:

if we played and called the game like SF did, this board would have BLOWN UP and wanted Coughlin's head on a pike for the mistakes.

it's the exact opposite over there.* They're so much gushing man-love for Harbaugh they can't bring themselves to admit that while he had a great season, his stupidity lost them that game.
[/quote]
It is like Haraugh has a reality distortion field and has his acolytes drinking his kool aid and then some. His whiney "OMG" face that he makes on every call against the 49ers will grow more tired than Rex Ryan's bluster.
[quote user="JJC7301"]
49ers are the worst fans that I've ever encountered on the boards.* They just sounded like ignorant thugs.

Harbaugh should have kept running the ball.* He had a great season and he's going to win a SB with that team soon, but his decisions help cost him this game.*
[/quote]
Yeah man. I don't remember them being such d-bags akin to Philthy fans. I guess they've been dormant so long.
Also, it is some of the crap they say which is just nonsensical and asinine.
"The Giants are a historically crappy franchise." "The Giants organization has no class like the 49ers." "The Giants have the refs on their payroll." Lol.
I am a Giants fan, but I can tell you objectively that we get screwed byt the officials a lot more than not. A lot more.
They forget, we owed them big time for the 2002 debacle. Debt paid in full.


text:
Last Modified: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 5:14 PM
A Lake Charles man wanted in connection with an armed robbery is in custody following a traffic stop, city police said.
Deputy Chief Mark Kraus said Christian Vitalas Syas has been charged with armed robbery, armed robbery with a firearm, marijuana possession and possession of drug paraphernalia. His bond was set at $206,000.
Kraus said Syas was pulled over Monday while driving in the 2000 block of Evans Street.
Marijuana and with drug paraphernalia were found in Syas' car.
Kraus said the other charges are connected to an armed robbery that was reported on Oct. 12 at Cypress Apartments in Lake Charles.


text:
Reviewed By Eric B (Jetmore, KS) Reviewed for a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee —11/17/2016 9:10 PM
Have had Magna Flow, Flow master exhaust on Chargers in the past. I bought this Borla on it's looks and price. System went on just as the instructions said with no problems. SOUNDS GREAT on my 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee HEMI-It is a sleeper.


text:
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In addition, Library staff will have the authority to disconnect you temporarily or permanently from the entire wireless network if you attempt to circumvent standard procedures and protocols, or attempt to access or manipulate equipment to which you are not authorized to connect.
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The user agrees that use of the Jersey City Free Public Library Wireless Network is at the user's sole risk. No representations or warranties, either expressed or implied, are made regarding the operations of this Wireless Network. The Jersey City Free Public Library shall not be liable for any damages of any kind that may result from the use of this Wireless Network. Viruses, security, and privacy protection is the responsibility of the user. Information passing through the Library's wireless access is not secured and could be monitored, captured, or altered by others. The Library assumes no responsibility for any alterations or interference with a laptop configuration operation or data files resulting from connection to the library's wireless network. The Library is not responsible for damage, theft, or loss of any kind to a user's equipment, software, data files or personal property that may occur as a result of using the Library's wireless access. Operations of this Wireless Network are provided as is and there are no warranty made that they will be free from errors and interruptions.
These rules represent the entire agreement between users and the Jersey City Free Public Library and may not be modified except by a signed agreement. The Jersey City Free Public Library Internet Policy applies to wireless access users. In using this free Internet access, the patron agrees and hereby releases, indemnifies and holds harmless the Jersey City Free Public Library and its employees from any damage that may result in the use of the wireless access. While using this wireless access, the patron acknowledges that he/she is subject to, and agrees to abide by all laws, and all rules and regulations of the City of Jersey City and Hudson County, the State of New Jersey and the federal government that is applicable to Internet use. If any provision of these rules shall be declared by a court to be invalid, illegal, or unenforceable, such provision shall be deemed severable from this agreement and the other provisions shall remain in full force and effect.
Free wireless Internet access points or "hot spots" are now available at the Jersey City Free Public Library Main Library and Regional libraries (Five Corners, The Heights, Greenville, Glenn D. Cunningham, Miller, Pavonia, Marion). Wireless Internet access uses radio frequency signals to transfer information between a laptop computer and the Internet. The advantages of using the wireless network are: you can access the Internet from different areas of the library, there is no waiting time to use the computer and you can download and save files on your own devices.
Frequently Asked Questions
How do I use the wireless network at the library?
· Hardware requirements
A laptop computer with a charged battery and a standard wireless network interface card that is compatible with Wi-Fi standards "802.11a" "802.11b" or "802.11g". Most laptops that have been purchased within the past 3 - 5 years should meet this requirement.
Most laptops that have been purchased within the past 3 - 5 years will have WiFi equipment that is compatible. However, the library cannot make an assurance that your equipment with be compatible to the library's network.
· Software requirements
The Jersey City Free Public Library has spyware and anti virus filters in place for all PC's that is in place among all the branch location. We highly recommend that all laptops/wireless device have up-to-date ant virus software, spy ware protection and a personal firewall installed while utilizing the Library's wireless network.
Use a web browser, such as Microsoft Internet Explorer, Mozilla Firefox or Netscape. Set your TCP client software to obtain addresses automatically from the server.
Open the Network icon on the Control Panel and Install and configure TCP/IP software. Under Protocol settings, add TCP/IP. Set the IP address to obtain an IP address automatically. Leave all other fields blank. In order for the changes to take effect, a restart may have to be done.
I do not have a library card. Can I access the Jersey City Free Public Library's Wireless Network?
You will need a library card and a personal identification number (PIN) to log on. Please go to the Circulation department of the branch that you are in if you need assistance regarding your PIN. Library staff will require that you provide a valid form of identification prior to presenting you with this data.
How do I connect to the Wireless Network?
1. Make sure that your laptop is turned on and that you have a wireless network interface card in place. Your laptop should automatically locate and display nearby wireless networks. Select "JCPL-MAIN" from the list.
2. Launch an Internet browser, such as Internet Explorer, Netscape, or Mozilla Firefox. Please note that you will need to disable any software that blocks pop up windows initially. This setting may prevent you from accessing our wireless network.
3. Accept the security certificate when prompted to do so by clicking on the yes button, if you have never accessed the Jersey City Free Public Library wireless network before.
4. Enter your Jersey City Free Public Library Card Number and PIN in the left frame of the initial page. . Click "Log in."
5. A small BluesocketT window will appear in the lower right hand corner of the screen. This window must remain open in order for you to remain on the wireless network. If you close this window, you will have to start the logon process anew.
6. When you are ready to exit the network, click the Logout button.
If you have never used the Jersey City Free Public Library Wireless Network before:
You will be asked to install a security certificate to your computer in order to access the wireless network. This authenticates your computer to become a member of the Wireless Network. When you launch your web browser such as Internet Explorer or Mozilla Firefox, a "Security Alert" window will pop up with three buttons: Yes, No, and View Certificate.
· Yes: will allow you to log in to the Jersey City Free Public Library network. You will receive this prompt at each time you log in.
· View Certificate: after viewing the security certificate, you will be shown the "Install Certificate" button. Once you have installed the certificate you will be able to log into the Wireless Network.
· No: you cannot access Jersey City Free Public Library's network.
When is Wireless Service Available?
Wireless access is available during regular business hours of each branch. Regular hours of operation are posted at the front of each branch location. A schedule of hours can be obtained from the Circulation desk of each branch.
Can I print from my laptop?
No. Currently, the Jersey City Free Public Library has no Wi-Fi capable printers.
Are wireless services available at all the branches?
The following branches have wireless networks available to the public: Main Library , Five Corners, Cunningham, Greenville, The Heights and Miller.
Can the Library help setting up my PC?
Library staff is unable to provide technical assistance with your laptop or other wireless equipment. Everyone's PC is configured differently and you are responsible for knowing how to set up your equipment properly. The Jersey City Free Public Library Staff cannot be responsible for any changes made to your PC settings and cannot guarantee that you will be able to make a wireless connection. If you need additional assistance, please consult your wireless card's web site or your PC's website for further information. The Library Staff can only provide help limited to this FAQ page.
Is my information safe while using wireless?
Information transmitted over the wireless network is not protected unless you are connected to a web page that employs encryption (stores, banks, etc.). Wireless transmissions in general can be intercepted very easily and thus is not secure. The transmission of data between the laptop and the wireless network can be easily captured and/or read by users who are knowledgeable about computer networks such as computer hackers. A knowledgeable user can capture any information that you enter in your laptop with a wireless device and the appropriate software within several hundred feet. The Library strongly urges you not to enter passwords, PIN numbers, account numbers or other private information while using the wireless network. Please keep this in mind if you are accessing sensitive business or personal information.
We strongly recommend that you do NOT use the Wireless Network for secure transactions, such as banking, investments, or purchasing from websites that participate in e-commerce. The Library assumes no responsibility for the safety of equipment, laptop configurations, security, or data files resulting from connection to the Library's network.
What about virus protection?
It is the sole responsibility of the wireless device owner/user to provide anti-virus protection. The Jersey City Free Public Library will not take responsibility for damages acquired from deficient security settings or inadequate virus protection. Our servers block ports that have been known to be exploited by popular viruses. Other than that it is the prime responsibility of the wireless owner to make certain that your laptop is installed with the appropriate ant virus software, spy ware protection software and a personal firewall.
Where can I use my laptop?
Please bear in mind that the Jersey City Free Public Library has a limited number of public tables and seating. Each branch will have a designated area that will enable you to use your laptop. Be mindful of the needs of other library patrons and mute any audible sound from your equipment or use headphones. The Library does not provide headphones for public use.
Also, take into account that signal strength and performance of the Library's wireless network will be different throughout the Library, depending on the location of the Wireless Access Point that produces the radio signals. Some areas of the Library building may not have wireless service or may have slower Internet service.
Can I plug my laptop power cord into the library's AC outlets?
Not all seating is within distance of electrical outlets. Please make sure that your batteries have been charged fully upon entering the Jersey City Free Public Library premises. There is a big possibility that your laptop will be self-powered while using the wireless network. If you are able to use one of our electrical outlets, it is important that your power cord do not become a trip hazard and thus block access for Library patrons and staff. Please do not move chairs or tables in order to gain access to electrical outlets.
Does the Library's policy on computer usage apply to me?
By using this free wireless network that the Jersey City Free Public Library provide, you agree to abide by the Library's Acceptable Use Policy and Guidelines for Internet use. Any activity that violates Acceptable Use Policy for library owned Internet and computers is also prohibited on user-owned equipment that is connected to the wireless network. Any activity that is considered to be illegal applies to the library patron whether or not you are on a Library-owned computer or your own device.
In addition, Library staff will have the authority to disconnect you temporarily or permanently from the entire wireless network if you attempt to circumvent standard procedures and protocols, or attempt to access or manipulate equipment to which you are not authorized to connect.
Setup/Troubleshooting Recommendations:
Wireless Card Settings:
Use the software that came with your wireless card or computer to configure the settings and to verify a connection to the library's wireless network.
Windows 2000 & XP Network Settings:
1. From Control Panel, select "Network and Dial-up Connections" or "Network and Internet Connections > Internet Connections."
2. Right-click on "Wireless Network Connection" or "Local Area Connection" and click Properties.
3. Locate the Internet TCP/IP protocol and get into its Properties. If more than one TCP/IP protocol is listed, look for the one associated with your wireless adapter.
4. Select "Obtain an IP address automatically" and "Obtain DNS server address automatically."
5. For XP, right click on "Wireless Network Connection" and select "View Available Wireless Networks." Select the name of the wireless network available at the library and click "Connect.".
Windows 98 Network Settings:
1. From Control Panel, select Network.
2. Locate the TCP/IP protocol and get into its Properties. If more than one TCP/IP protocol is listed, look for the one associated with your wireless adapter.
3. For IP Address, select "Obtain an IP address automatically."
4. For DNS, select "Disable DNS."
For WINS, select "Use DHCP for WINS Resolution."


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Movie Review: Polisse
Stephen Rebello reviews the gritty French police drama Polisse.
Polisse delivers two-plus hours of gripping, galvanizing and deeply troubling drama. Directed by actress Maïwenn, who cowrote the complex, bracingly intelligent screenplay with Emmanuelle Bercot, the film's flawed heroes are cops in the Child Protection Unit of the Paris police force. The fact that Maïwenn, who apparently spent many weeks in total immersion in this world, drew the cases from real life almost defies belief because every other minute, the officers face horrific new crises involving kids who've been abandoned, sexually abused, hopelessly mistreated. It's a portrait of lives lived in constant triage, with bureaucracy often mucking things up even more. They're dedicated, flawed, frantic, sometimes incredibly generous, often barely able to hang on. In their off hours, their personal lives are messy. They cannot possibly leave their work behind them, their fellow officers treat them with condescension and they cope through gallows humor the way people do in war, in hospitals — anywhere people are living on the knife-edge.
Though comparisons to, say, The Wire are inevitable, this extremely disturbing, beautifully made film is a singular astonishment featuring superb performances by Joeystarr (a rapper), Karin Viard, Marina Foïs, actress-filmmaker Maïwenn herself, and others. Polisse burrows deep under your skin and stays there. No wonder the documentary-like film copped the jury prize at the Cannes Film Festival last year.


text:
And this is not the only venue for concern about the entertainment industry's clout. Indeed, critics say the industry has had too much sway over the very drafting of SOPA and PIPA.
The web site Maplight.org found that, over the last two years, the film, television, music, and radio industries outspent Internet companies 4-to-1 on donations to members of the House Judiciary Committee considering SOPA.
Whitehouse, who serves on the Senate Judiciary Committee that unanimously signed off on PIPA last year, has received $213,614 in campaign donations from entertainment media over the last five years, compared to $78,159 from Internet companies, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.
Whitehouse's office has denied any undue influence from Hollywood. But even if Congress's motives are pure, critics say the body could spoil the open, innovation-friendly Internet at the behest of a narrow interest.
"What this bill represents is a certain industry deciding that [the open Internet is] not worth protecting in order to shelter a legacy source of profit," says Parker Higgins, a spokesman for the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a San Francisco-based non-profit that advocates for "digital rights."
Indeed, the geekery's most compelling case against SOPA and PIPA is this: the bills would interfere with a bright spot in the American economy, an engine of free speech and democracy, in defense of a dying business model.
Jonathan Stark, 43, a Providence-based software consultant who has written to Whitehouse voicing his opposition to the bills, says any company whose product can be copied and pasted has a big, fundamental problem — a problem that no sure-to-fail anti-piracy legislation will solve.
And he fears the federal government, in pursuing a fool's errand, will inflict unforeseen harm.
Stark says he's old enough to remember when access to knowledge was limited to the books on the local library shelf. The Internet has exploded those limits, has created remarkable access to the global brain.
"To see that threatened," he says, "rankles me to no end."
David Scharfenberg can be reached at email@example.com.
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text:
wait there's snow outside?
wait there's snow outside?
I have 3 words for you. Hockey Hockey Hockey. Its the best thing to chase away the winter blues, Thank God the lockout ended.
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Only 30 weeks until the start of the regular season.
I know. Giants ball has been over for a month but now here we are staring at empty Sundays in the deep cold of winter. Maybe time to get back on board the Knicks bandwagon. Can't get excited about baseball.


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Beastly Bits #38
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text:
Missouri Department of Transportation urges caution with deer on roads
Almost 4,000 drivers collided with deer last year on Missouri highways
JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. - The Missouri Department of Transportation is advising drivers to stay cautious when it comes to deer on Missouri roads.
In 2012, almost 4,000 drivers collided with deer last year on state highways. Five of those people were killed.
Currently, it's the middle of deer mating season and that means bucks are out seeking mates and maturing fawns are leaving their mothers.
At the same time, farmers are harvesting corn and beans, and that's driving deer into open areas like highways.
MoDOT says staying alert, slowing down and buckling up will be your biggest protection against deer-related crashes.
Engineer Travis Koestner says car crashes with deer are so prevalent simply because they are wild animals.
"They're unpredictable," he said. "Like any wild animal, you never know where they're going to go."
Koestner says if you see a deer in the road ahead of you, don't swerve or sound your horn because it will just startle it. Instead, slow down or stop until the animal passes. But, some deer collisions are just unavoidable.
"It's really an unfortunate accident any time, so we rally encourage people to wear their seat belts and pay attention to the road. Put the phones down," said Koestner.
MoDOT is asking drivers to be extra careful during fall evenings since 96 percent of deer-car collisions happen at night.
"Really, from those peak times, about five in the evening to about seven in the morning is when we really see the deer hits take place," said Koestner.
In order to see farther, MoDOT advises drivers to flip on your high beams when there are no cars approaching so that you may be able to see the animals earlier.
It's not just in the country roads where people hit deer either. Many crashes actually happen in city perimeters.
"Areas like Columbia, right around Jefferson City. You may be in an urbanized area, but don't let that catch you off guard. There's still a lot of deer in these areas that may be a little more used to people and used to traffic," said Koestner.
Jefferson City made the top 10 cities in Missouri with deer crashes last year. It ties fifth with Maryland Heights at 30 crashes.


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Home › Forums › Gear Forums › Gear (General) › Curing High-T paint on Your Pot
Apr 19, 2013 at 10:02 pm #1301945
I was wondering if anyone has bothered to "properly" cure the black stove paint on your Ti pot (if you bothered to go the stove painting route in the first place that is). If so, any special method you used? To the best I can determine the "curing" process involves raising the temperature of the painted object (after letting the paint dry for 24 hours) to 200 F for an hour or so, then upping the temp to 450 for another hour or more. In the process, apparently, some noxious stuff out-gasses, or I might be tempted to try my oven. I read somewhere that someone did it with a propane torch. Any thoughts?
This is suppose to make the paint more heat resistant and stronger – however for boiling water not sure if this is ever an issue. Perhaps it would be more scratch resistant.Apr 19, 2013 at 10:18 pm #1978597
Jay WilkersonBPL Member
@creachenLocale: East Bay
I have tried that on a few pots (Underneath) and it never worked out or it showed no difference in cook time! Then somebody on BPL told me that tactic is a myth and it is true! Waste of time.Apr 20, 2013 at 12:16 am #1978606
I doubt it makes a big difference, but the paint adsorbs IR spectrum (heat EM energy) better than titanium – metal tends to reflect more radiant energy since it is a conductor. The IR, by the way, is the heat you feel when you face a fireplace hitting you in the face that goes away when you create a shadow with your hand or turn away. For example, when sitting around a campfire in the open the vast majority of the heat you feel is from the IR radiant energy. If you want to demonstrate to yourself the ability of metal to reflect IR you can reflect the heat from a fire onto your face using some aluminum foil – also one reason why it keeps your potato warm, but in the pot case why it does not adsorb as much heat from the thermal spectrum as perhaps it might given a little help. So yes, for cases where there is a good fraction of heat transfer due to radiant energy then putting almost anything on your bare metal would tend to increase that adsorption.
The color of the paint probably doesn't matter a damn in the infrared spectrum (what would matter is if it is black to an IR camera), but black (in the visual spectrum of humans)looks OK, and hides soot. This (radiant energy transfer) is only part of the physics that causes heat transfer to the pot, but it IS a part. The effect would depend strongly on the circumstances (proportion of radiant heat transfer vs. forms of molecular heat transfer), but there are several experiments, even here on BPL, by people who did careful measurements, that show a measurable effect. Nothing earth-shattering, but lets say %5 might be on the radar of the obsessive types here on BPL. It would depend entirely on how your stove was set up as the the fraction of heat transfer due to radiant energy.
I don't know if I can stand up to the authority of what "they" say (there seems to be a long-standing debate between "them-lore" and people who have tried to do controlled experiments on this), but I can say that the basic physics is sound as I have a PhD in Physics and taught it at the graduate level before I sold out. I'd suspect someone in the military might know what the best IR absorbing paint would be, but I also doubt we could afford it. Or even get it.
Anyway, I'm still interested in the original question – if anyone has heat-cured their high-T paint, for cosmetic reasons, or otherwise.Apr 20, 2013 at 5:30 am #1978621
I just sent a PM to someone here on BPL who I believe has done it. Let's see if he chimes in.
There are a lot of guys who have done stuff like that on Classic Camp Stoves which is a stove collector's forum. A lot of them are painting the cases, but I think high temp paint is high temp paint.
Lastly, I think you've got the right idea in terms of where the whole "blacking the pot" falls in the greater scheme of efficiency. There is some to be gained, but it may be hard to detect unless one is doing something specific to measure it. FWIW, I've got a section on Canister Stove Efficiency (Best Practices) (you have to page down a bit). I list blacking the pot as item number seven (out of seven). :)Apr 20, 2013 at 5:31 am #1978622
Charles GrierBPL Member
@rinconLocale: Desert Southwest
I know that this does not answer your question but using the pot for cooking is an uncontrolled sort of heat curing. I have two pots that I use, one aluminum, the other titanium. About five years ago I painted the bottom of each with Rustoleum High Temperature Grill paint. After the initial air drying period, both pots went into service. Yes, there was some minor out gassing of residual volatiles but nothing obnoxious. The paint coating is, after five years of regular use, still pretty much intact.
I ran a somewhat controlled experiment on heating times before and after the paint job with only the aluminum pot. I used a Pepsi can stove, measured volumes of water and alcohol at a consistent 65F with all trials at an air temperature of 65F and at 3400' elevation. Mean full rolling boil time with the unpainted pot was 4 min., 43 sec. with n=14. With the paint, after a couple of unmeasured boils to drive off volatiles, the mean boil time was 4 min. 36 sec. with n=14. The difference was significant at the 95% level. I know that others have not found painting to have an effect: I did but am not sure that the effect is worth the effort. I do think, however, that the black bottomed pots look cool.Apr 20, 2013 at 6:10 am #1978627
USA Duane HallBPL Member
@hikerduaneLocale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
HJ sent an IM to me. I've only used high temp "VHT" paint on a couple flames for one of my vintage Optimus 111T stoves. Paint must be "cured to substantially enhance the durability of the finish and enhance chemical resistance". It involves placing the painted object after the paint is dry, in the oven for 30 minutes at 250F, cooling the item for 30 minutes, then repeating at 600F for 30 minutes, this chemically cures the paint, not to exceed the capability of the item being painted to withstand those temps. I'm single, so no opposition to using the oven. The painting process isn't very energy efficient, but not bad.
DuaneApr 20, 2013 at 7:07 am #1978637
Jerry AdamsBPL Member
@retiredjerryLocale: Oregon and Washington
I painted the bottom of my Ti pot. After years, the center of the bottom has burned off (it's shiny) but there's still paint on the edges of the bottom and up the sides a little. I just let it dry for a few days. Black, spray, barbeque paint.
If it's black in IR, it will also radiate more, which will reduce some of the advantage.Apr 20, 2013 at 8:10 am #1978657
Thanks for the replies on this!
"If it's black in IR, it will also radiate more, which will reduce some of the advantage."
Yes, that is true, but it will be radiating at the temperature at, at most, boiling water temperature, while it would be receiving energy (potentially at least) from thermal spectrum radiation at a much higher temperature (shifted higher in frequency and in energy), so this would be a small down tweak to what is already, admittedly, a small effect to start with.
I too was thinking that probably the obvious first thing to do would be to boil water for a while. That would possibly accomplish the first stage. As for the final curing temp the options seem to be trying to use my oven or wing it and blast it with a torch. Both have have their potential disadvantages. I will try one of them and post back here in the next day or so. At the very least if the oven experiment is a disaster I can let you folks know not to try it.
I'm not sure if the paint will ever be "scratch proof", but I *am* definitely wondering if it will at least make a difference the durability.
I should explain that the origin of my wondering about this came a decade ago the first time I tried painting a Ti mug with stove paint. I have to admit that, at the time, the "payoff" for me was as much from a Jardine-like desire to wipe the "snow peak" logo from my mug as from a curiosity to see if it did in fact make a difference in the heat transfer. LOL Anyway, I didn't do any heat curing at all, and the first time I put it on my canister stove the paint "stuck" to the pot supports and "melted" a bit, and pealed away. Perhaps some others may have had similar experiences. Since the paint was supposed to be good to 1200 F I wondered at this. Later I found out you were supposed to carefully drive away the resinous material in the paint etc. by heat-curing the paint before the job was done. Also, Ti may not be the ideal backing material for paint.
The paint is supposed to even look "wet" when you heat it the first time until the other materials in the paint are driven off. If you heat it too much before the process is finished it is supposed to blister, which might explain my experiences with using non-heat-treated paint for the first time.
Oh, FYI, I am only using hardware store variety stove paint – Rustoleum matt black high temp paint good to 1200, about $6-8 for a large size spray can. The stuff people use on their barbecues. I assume this is what the vast majority of people use.Apr 20, 2013 at 8:49 am #1978665
Jerry AdamsBPL Member
@retiredjerryLocale: Oregon and Washington
That's what I used – Rustoleum – still good on edges after years
Yeah, flame is 1000 F or whatever, pot is maybe 250 F, power is proportional to 4th power of temperature relative to absolute zero so pot won't be radiating that muchApr 20, 2013 at 9:58 am #1978695
Nick GatelBPL Member
@ngatelLocale: Southern California
You may want to check out high temperature motorcycle paint (use Google). Some of these paints are rated to 2000F. You also need to read the instructions. Some of these paints require special primer as a base coat. Last step is curing. If you have a wife, curing in "her" oven is a no-no. I learned about the oven "ownership" the hard way. You can buy a small roasting oven for under $50. This is what I did after the oven-Nazi caught me curing motorcycle parts in "her" oven; an oven I purchased before we met :(
You also need to determine if the paint is compatible with the metal you are using.
Now… My question is, why? My high temp painting experience is related to restoring my motorcycle. What does one gain by painting a pot; other than some (maybe) minimal incremental improvement in performance?Apr 20, 2013 at 10:04 am #1978697
James CahillSpectator
@dmatbLocale: Norf Carl
Rustoleums technical data sheet for the specialty high heat paint states "do not use on metal directly exposed to open flame". Although the paint is supposed to withstand 1200F (648C), the actual flames can get much hotter than that (depending on what you are burning of course) which may account for the peeling/flaking/sticking. Just a thought, and I have no idea if a slow ramp to temperature (curing) would change this.Apr 20, 2013 at 10:08 am #1978699
steven franchukMember
This was posted on MYOG some time ago:
Basically the boil times for bear cans were measured. One had it's original pint. One was partially bainted black, another all black, and the final can had all pint removed.
The can with the original paint had the longest boil time. The all black can boiled water about 10 seconds longer. The can with no paint was the only one to boil water in less than 5 minutes, it was 30 seconds faster than the can with it's original paint and 20 seconds faster than the all black can.
Overall his result appear to indicate that IR radiation has a very small impact on boil times. Conduction of the pot is the biggest factor in boil times. An unpainted pot also weighs less than a painted one.Apr 20, 2013 at 10:40 am #1978708
peter vaccoMember
@fluffinreach-comLocale: no. california
i have no input on painting. but i know for an experienced fact that when i get sloppy and let the hard soot build up on my titi pot/bushbuddy combo, that it takes longer to boil.
i looked for the old (very) product Cal-Guard, which was a heat curable coating used on hot-rods and motorcycles, but could not find it anymore. it was hard as a whore's heart, and may have stood up to my soot scrape'ns.
v.Apr 20, 2013 at 10:43 am #1978709
Now… My question is, why? My high temp painting experience is related to restoring my motorcycle. What does one gain by painting a pot; other than some (maybe) minimal incremental improvement in performance?
That's pretty much it, Nick. Personally, I wonder if it's really worth it.
In more practical terms, I think this applies more for someone buying a new pot. For example, getting an anodized aluminum pot instead of a plain aluminum one might offer some small incremental benefit in terms of heating efficiency.
You'll note in my link in my above post that I listed pot color last in terms of efficiency gains.Apr 20, 2013 at 10:46 am #1978712
i have no input on painting. but i know for an experienced fact that when i get sloppy and let the hard soot build up on my titi pot/bushbuddy combo, that it takes longer to boil.
Yes, it does. The built up coating acts as an insulator and reduces heat transfer. A clean pot is more efficient. Not an issue with gas, liquid (petroleum), and (most) alcohol fuels, but definitely an issue with wood and ESBIT.Apr 20, 2013 at 11:09 am #1978723
Providing the data collected above were collected carefully, then all you would have have "proven" is that for the particular setups IR is irrelevant to within a certain percentage. If you take a look at other people results posted here, some of which seem to have been done carefully, with enough repeats to quantify random variations in the individual tests and so forth, people have proven that there IS a measurable effect, in certain cases, between paint and no paint.
NO ONE has been suggesting it is a big effect. And it is "worth it". Pshaw! Such questions are unworthy in such an exalted discussion. LOL
Nonetheless, the thread you cite actually (by my analysis) does not show what you claim it shows, and appears to indicate that IR possibly *IS* playing a role. I don't believe the "paint as insulator" theory. OK actually I do, but lest talk hypothetically here. You would have to test this in carefully in IR free conditions to isolate it. By brushing the cans you in fact can reduce the reflectivity of the metal (for all frequencies of light with wavelengths longer that the irregularities of the final metal surface) which (if the results are to be believed) would *increase* the adsorption of IR – brushing would (probably) not have a large effect on the other forms of heat transfer unless you really gouged the hell out of the can. So it taken for what it is "proves" that IR *could* in fact be playing a measurable role, just that the best way of increasing the adsorption (by decreasing reflection) in this particular case was roughing of the surface, and not by paint. It is easy to imagine that you could rough up the surface to a greater depth that the thickness of the paint on an Al can which is very soft, and so it could potentially have a greater effect than paint. A cool idea actually! Not sure how well it would work for Ti, but is an interesting question.
As mentioned in previous posts above, what the paint looks like in visual spectrum meaningless for the question. Paint or no paint yes, beer can logo or black paint no. White paint of one type can easily beat black paint of another type for IR adsorption.
Also, I'd like to point out that there is zero data in that post on how an unfinished, unpainted shiny beer can would perform. I'm guessing that would be the worst of all. You could strip the paint chemically instead of roughing the surface and then test that. But it wasn't done.
Final summary: that experiment doesn't show what you claim it shows, but is pretty interesting anyway.
The paint weight is negligible.
OK, WAY to much time spent on this, however fun to think about. I need to get back to curing cancer.Apr 20, 2013 at 11:22 am #1978729
I need to get back to curing cancer.
Sell out. ;)Apr 20, 2013 at 7:44 pm #1978868
OK, I used my oven and no smells or otherwise noxious gasses beyond what you would smell with your oven cranked on overdrive. No brain cells killed, apparently, though I used my brain to determine that, so a bit of a catch 22.
Here is what I did specifically.
(1) Three coats of Rustoleum black matte stove paint (on Evernew Ti 0.9L, not that is matters). Let dry between coats. Face down on newspaper and Bobs your uncle.
(2) About 45 minutes in 250 degree oven. Took out pot and let cool, which happens almost immediately with so little mass of metal.
(3) Baked pot about an hour on the hi setting of broil.
Final result with the matte black (I have used a can of gloss for the past decade that finally gave out) is a nice dark grey. Much preferable according to my own aesthetics. Usually I sand down any paint on the lip, and I did this as well. Very nice results, no fumes to speak of. Possibly this is because of the very small surface area – come to think of it most of the sources that told me to beware of fumes were talking about full size stoves and barbecues.
Yes I know in the interest of scientific inquiry I should have done a scratch test comparison, but I just couldn't bear to do it given the lovely results. It "feels" really bonded to the surface. Maybe I will try it out on another pot at some point.
Final Analysis: (1) Aesthetic bliss – check. (2) No fumes – Check. (3) Apparent tough finish – check. (4) All corporate logos obliterated – check. (5) Improved efficiency – in doubt.
I will not bother with a final picture as that would be pure self-indulgence. Not like the rest of this exercise at all.
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Town Square
Announcing the APOA and our mission
Original post made by APOA, Atherton: other, on Dec 2, 2012
Atherton Proponents for Organized Action,
We are starting a blog and will fully utilize social media to get our message out. We are self-funded, and will be looking to raise more funds to prevent Atherton residents from being confused in the upcoming police salary negotiations.
We feel it is important for Atherton residents to fully understand the issues in Atherton police compensation, including and especially what the police officers don't want them to know.
This is our first mission. There will be others. Right now, securing a sensible police contract is Atherton's top priority since police dominate the budget, and the associated unfounded liabilities top $20 million.
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Comments (3)
a resident of Menlo Park: other
on Dec 2, 2012 at 9:50 am
Excellent idea!
a resident of Menlo Park: other
on Dec 2, 2012 at 10:11 am
Menlo Voter is a registered user.
While I do think the idea has merit, the previous post was not by me. To whomever posted it, please use your own handle. I've been using this one for years.
Although the idea has merit, I think calling themselves APOA is stupid. All it will do is create confusion with the Atherton Peace Officers Association. That's probably the point, but if you rreally want to have some effect, creating confusion isn't going to help your cause.
a resident of Atherton: other
on Dec 2, 2012 at 11:02 am
I agree with Menlo Voter #2.
How about calling it "K-nowledge of ATH-erton for Y-ou" or
K-ATH-Y: A Blog to make Police, Lewis, and Wiest "Unhappy".
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List?? I HAVE A LIST TOO!!!!
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Well that explains everything. I think the citizenry behind the Big Apple Curtain need to do something about their own governement that is flat out saying "We don't trust you".
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Punta Cana Wedding from Angie Silvy PhotographyAny wedding that involves sand and ghost chairs is bound to be a good one. I think that exact rule is #1 in the Gorgeous Weddings Rule Book. It has the modern elements that we love mixed with a sense of
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Eight Mexicans Who Should Be Heard
Posted by Ted Lewis in Global Exchange News & Events, Mexico, World News & Events on 14th December, 2011 | No Comments
In the last year, an unprecedented number of Mexicans have received international recognition for their courageous work on behalf of migrants, workers, and the millions of victims of the country's spiraling violence, institutional decomposition and appalling inequality. We profile some of these movement leaders, artists, grass roots organizers, labor leaders, and clergy people working in the front trenches of the struggle for human rights.
Read More...


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Just read where Lomas Brown openly admitted to letting a pass rusher by him so Scott Mitchel would get hit and hopefully hurt to get him out of the game. Not only did he admitt it but he has not said sorry or it was the wrong thing to do.
I like Lomas too.....now he is just an ******* so many other. Too bad.


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Are only women the ones who face ongoing dilemmas as to whether their family roles or their professional roles take priority? Do not men face the same dilemma?
This is part of a series of talks by Rabbi Dr. Tzvi Hersh Weinreb on the critical – but waning – role that fathers play in the parenting process.
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Notice: On March 31, it was announced that Statalist is moving from an email list to a forum. The old list will shut down on April 23, and its replacement, statalist.org is already up and running.
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Re: st: polychoric for huge data sets
Nick Cox <email@example.com>
Re: st: polychoric for huge data sets
Thu, 6 Sep 2012 08:40:43 +0100
I simulated some data, but evidently -polychoric- is sensitive to the
data, and mine were "good" from its point of view.
You could try cloning -polychoric- and rewrite slow bits in Mata. Odds
are that would take longer than 6 hours.
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 1:39 AM, Timea Partos
<firstname.lastname@example.com> wrote:
> Hi guys,
> Thanks for the suggestions.
> Just to clarify, my problem with using polychoric is that it is very slow. I waited over 2 hours and still no result.
> So I ran some experiments: when I run polychoric with just two variables, it takes around 35 seconds. This is regardless of whether I do it with 800 cases or 8000. 3 variables is around 110 seconds, 4 variables is 220 or so, which suggests that the processing time increases about linearly with the pairs of correlations it needs to calculate (so probably quadratically with the number of variables), regardless of the number of cases.
> So, with my data set this would be over 6 hours for each analysis, which given that this is exploratory and I would be wanting to run numerous analyses, its just not feasible for me.
> Nick - you suggested that its possible to run polychoric on 8000 cases with 40 variables in a matter of minutes.
> Can I ask how you did this? Is it possible that there is something wrong with my computer's settings then - or that its just too slow?
> I am running Windows, Stata versions 12.1, 32 bits with an Intel i5-2500S 2.7 GHz processor and 4 GB of ram.
> Re the variables - this is not some hairbrained data-mining or data-cleaning exercise. It's a well established and validated survey that is firmly based in theory and has been running internationally for over 8 years. The variables I am looking at should theoretically hang together and reduce to 2 or three factors - and this is what is suggested by the analyses that I have run just treating them as continuous. I would just like to confirm the results with a more appropriate statistical analysis if possible. I was hoping to use the matrix of correlations provided by polychoric and feed it into the factormat program rather than using polychoricpca (I definitely want to use factor analysis not pca - as I want to get at the broader theoretical factors rather than just explain the maximum variance in my data).
> So, any suggestions for how to speed up polychoric would be much appreciated (as would a concrete "this is just not possible" comment, so that I don't waste too much time trying.)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: firstname.lastname@example.com [mailto:email@example.com] On Behalf Of Stas Kolenikov
> Sent: Thursday, 6 September 2012 3:19 AM
> To: email@example.com
> Subject: Re: st: polychoric for huge data sets
> Well, clearly there's some overhead that hardly depends on the number of variables (parsing, populating the matrices, etc.), but that should be much faster than the iterative optimization. It may well be that with some setups, the time may be somewhat faster than quadratic, but I'd be surprised if it were as fast as linear: -polychoric- literally computes the correlations one by one, so I thought that the quadratic is unavoidable.
> --
> -- Stas Kolenikov, PhD, PStat (SSC) :: http://stas.kolenikov.name
> -- Senior Survey Statistician, Abt SRBI :: work email kolenikovs at srbi dot com
> -- Opinions stated in this email are mine only, and do not reflect the position of my employer
> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Nick Cox <email@example.com> wrote:
>> I don't know what is obvious to anyone else, but clearly as author you
>> know your code, which is based on calculating correlations one at a
>> time. Nevertheless my very limited experiments show less than
>> quadratic dependence on the number of variables.
>> Nick
>> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Stas Kolenikov <email@example.com> wrote:
>>> Obviously, -polychoric- computing time is quadratic in the number of
>>> variables, but linear (or may be even faster) in the number of
>>> observations. There's also the curse of large sample sizes: most of
>>> the time, the underlying bivariate normality will be considered
>>> violated by -polychoric-, and that may create computational
>>> difficulties, such as flat regions, ridges, and multiple local optima.
>>> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 8:54 AM, Nick Cox <firstname.lastname@example.com> wrote:
>>>> Experiment supports intuition in suggesting that the number of
>>>> variables is a bigger deal for -polychoric- than the number of
>>>> observations, and also that you can get results for 8000 obs and 40
>>>> variables in several minutes on a mundane computer. That's tedious
>>>> interactively but doesn't support the claim that Timea made. Best
>>>> just to write a do-file and let it run while you are doing something
>>>> else.
>>>> Nick
>>>> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 9:59 AM, Nick Cox <email@example.com> wrote:
>>>>> Stas Kolenikov's -polychoric- package promises only principal
>>>>> component analysis. Depending on how you were brought up, that is
>>>>> distinct from factor analysis, or a limiting case of factor
>>>>> analysis, or a subset of factor analysis.
>>>>> The problem you report as "just can't handle it" with no details
>>>>> appears to be one of speed, rather than refusal or inability to
>>>>> perform.
>>>>> That aside, what is "appropriate" is difficult to answer. A recent
>>>>> thread indicated that many on this list are queasy about means or
>>>>> t-tests for ordinal data, so that would presumably put factor
>>>>> analysis or PCA of ordinal data beyond the pale. Nevertheless it
>>>>> remains popular.
>>>>> You presumably have the option of taking a random sample from your
>>>>> data and subjecting that to both (a) PCA of _ranked_ data (which is
>>>>> equivalent to PCA based on Spearman correlation) and (b) polychoric
>>>>> PCA. Then it would be good news for you if the substantive or
>>>>> scientific conclusions were the same, and a difference you need to
>>>>> think about otherwise. Here the random sample should be large
>>>>> enough to be substantial, but small enough to get results in reasonable time.
>>>>> Alternatively, you could be ruthless about which of your variables
>>>>> are most interesting or important. A preliminary correlation
>>>>> analysis would show which variables could be excluded because they
>>>>> are poorly correlated with anything else, and which could be
>>>>> excluded because they are very highly correlated with anything
>>>>> else. Even if you can get it, a PCA based on 40+ variables is often
>>>>> unwieldy to handle and even more difficult to interpret than one
>>>>> based on say 10 or so variables.
>>>>> Nick
>>>>> On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 3:37 AM, Timea Partos
>>>>> <email@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I need to run a factor analysis on ordinal data. My dataset is huge (7000+ cases with 40+ variables) so I can't run the polychoric.do program written by Stas Kolenikov, because it just can't handle it.
>>>>>> Does anyone know of a fast way to obtain the polychoric correlation matrix for very large data sets?
>>>>>> Alternatively, I was thinking of running the factor analysis using the Spearman rho (rank-order correlations) matrix instead. Would this be appropriate?
>>>> *
>>>> * For searches and help try:
>>>> * http://www.stata.com/help.cgi?search
>>>> * http://www.stata.com/support/statalist/faq
>>>> * http://www.ats.ucla.edu/stat/stata/
>>> --
>>> -- Stas Kolenikov, PhD, PStat (SSC) :: http://stas.kolenikov.name
>>> -- Senior Survey Statistician, Abt SRBI :: work email kolenikovs at
>>> srbi dot com
>>> -- Opinions stated in this email are mine only, and do not reflect
>>> the position of my employer
>>> *
>>> * For searches and help try:
>>> * http://www.stata.com/help.cgi?search
>>> * http://www.stata.com/support/statalist/faq
>>> * http://www.ats.ucla.edu/stat/stata/
>> *
>> * For searches and help try:
>> * http://www.stata.com/help.cgi?search
>> * http://www.stata.com/support/statalist/faq
>> * http://www.ats.ucla.edu/stat/stata/
> *
> * For searches and help try:
> * http://www.stata.com/help.cgi?search
> * http://www.stata.com/support/statalist/faq
> * http://www.ats.ucla.edu/stat/stata/
> *
> * For searches and help try:
> * http://www.stata.com/help.cgi?search
> * http://www.stata.com/support/statalist/faq
> * http://www.ats.ucla.edu/stat/stata/
* For searches and help try:
* http://www.stata.com/help.cgi?search
* http://www.stata.com/support/statalist/faq
* http://www.ats.ucla.edu/stat/stata/


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Check out the events around you, try new places and support local business. Once you find an event you have to attend share it out to your friends on social media directly from the app.
Pull up specific details about any beer, spirit or cocktail in our database. Track them, rate them or zero in on where to find them around you.
Stay up-to-date with your favorite drinks and places, track all the drinks you're dying to try, and set alerts so you're always in the know!
Explore our listed locations and and hunt down your favorite drinks all online below. Just select your market to begin. Also, don't forget to create your free account so you can track, rate and share your favorites!
Choose the market you would like to explore below, and start the hunt by browsing our listed locations or pinpointing your favorite beer, spirit, or cocktail in your neighborhood. Happy hunting!
Choose the market that best suits you. Don't see your city listed here? Check back soon, we add new markets frequently! (P.S. - we've also been told TapHunter is great for traveling.)