text:
Town Square
Gov. Brown Does BART Management a Favor
Original post made by Mike Cherry, Another Pleasanton neighborhood, on Aug 13, 2013
With this 60 day cooling off period, BART management, possessing far more resources than the unions, and with values interwoven with the corporate media, will continue to make their case to the public, thereby undermining BART workers' own modest demands for a well-deserved wage increase.
Although it may be fashionable for wealthy old fat guys in tight little-boy shirts to lie about BART workers -- and to do so in a cowardly way that closes off readers' challenges -- the facts continue to speak for themselves. The offer management has extended to BART workers is a joke. It amounts to a pay cut at a time when corporate profits are skyrocketing through the roof but with nary a dime left for workers to struggle over. If workers were to treat the joke seriously, it would leave them earning less money in 2017 than they were earning nine years previously.
The 60 day cooling off period will not only further aid BART management's PR campaign, but it will also enable further corporate influence to be leveraged upon Gov. Brown. For corporations will indeed be inconvenienced by a strike. They will now have 60 additional days to spend millions upon millions in lobbying efforts in order to bring the Governor into line with a status quo that allows corporations to function without impediment.
Here is where the fascist content of corporate America rears its ugly head in a visible manner. We get a better view of how the stated differences between the state and the corporations it serves are overblown -- simply ruses to further the ambitions of corporate America against the American people. In short, when a conflict arises between workers and the extant power structure, Republicans and Democrats alike genuflect before the wishes of corporate power in America.
Brown won't do anything to upset the status quo in America because so doing would disrupt the everyday workings of corporate America. Fat, deceitful, old wealthy white guys can lie about BART workers not having a college degree all they want to; but this isn't what the strike threat is about. It is about corporations getting their own way: paying low taxes for a public transportation system that carries its workers to and from work. The system needs improvement? Blame the workers! The system is obsolete? Blame the workers! The region needs more revenues to provide basis services to the public? Blame the workers!
You'll not see this view in the media, because the media's corporate interests are at one with those of all major corporations. You'll see Brown do everything in his power to ensure that a strike does not occur. This MAY mean paying workers what they are worth. A lot hinges on just how courageous the workers will be in the face of the extraordinary, monolithic opposition that is aligned against them. Let's hope that BART workers will remain defiantly courageous as the sage continues. Their victory is a victory for all American workers.
Viva BART Workers! Viva all American workers!!!
Comments (93)
a resident of Foothill Place
on Aug 13, 2013 at 9:18 am
I do enjoy your posts much more than the Rush-Limbaugh-lite (hmm...maybe "lite" isn't the best term here) drivel written by that other guy.
Keep up the good work!
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 13, 2013 at 9:25 am
Ah, gee whiz, now Mikey is saying that both Democrats & Republicans, and all of the media is aligned against this poor little union. Give it up Mikey. Your long dissertation speaks of your own little union mind with absolutely no figures or facts to back up anything you have said. But of course, you could always quote the union "rag" which according to you is the only valid source of information in this entire discussion. The Only Child Syndrome strikes again from Mikey.
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 13, 2013 at 11:29 am
Thanks for your encouraging comment, Bright Corners. It's good to know that some of us are capable of thinking beyond the fat golfer's vents and Dave's blubbering nonsense.
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 13, 2013 at 11:33 am
Mike, what job is it you do for BART and/or the union?
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 13, 2013 at 11:57 am
Dear JTR, or should I say Dear Dave?
I don't work for BART, and for you to assume I do given what I've written reveals more about your own cognitive limitations than it does about what I've written.
I'm an American worker, no different than most American workers. I try not to allow myself to become mesmerized by the swill that corporate media -- t.v., radio, ads, mags, newspaper rags, movies -- is offering up on a daily basis. It sounds like you're happy to feed at the trough. Hope you find that swill you're gobbling down to your liking.
Now, do you have anything of substance to say? Didn't think so.
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 13, 2013 at 1:09 pm
Sorry, don't know who Dave is.
The way you rattle off all the 'facts' on the bart union shows you are very close to the issue and have all the union talking points. The fact that you cannot even see the other side also shows your closeness. However, I see I touched a sore spot by seeing your attacking reply full of hate. I see people who present facts and you cannot counter the facts but instead just reply with hate. So sorry to see you are such an unhappy person. You are also the first person who I have seen call tv, radio, ad, mag, newspaper rags, and movies all corporate media. Wow!
Upon reading your posts I have been trying to figure out if you are part of the bart union, or if you are so much against the bart union and you write posts that push people even further away from the views of the bart union with your extremist views.
I do thank you, either way, for helping elucidate the uncompromising views of the unions. I am sure that for people who were on the fence, you have done a great service to move their thoughts over to the side of management. Thank you for your public service.
a resident of Canyon Oaks
on Aug 13, 2013 at 5:27 pm
What facts are you presenting, JTR? It sounds like you're the one with hate issues.
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 13, 2013 at 5:32 pm
Ah, come on "Love", check some of the previous postings regarding the BART strike and you can find many, many links to "facts" regarding the union's unreasonable demands. Presenting validated facts doesn't quite measure up to "hate".
a resident of Livermore
on Aug 13, 2013 at 5:35 pm
I think that Mike Cherry is presenting useful information.
I don't feel pushed away by MC's posts nor do I find his posts extremist.
oh twiddle dee-dee JTR...twiddle dee-dee...
a resident of Livermore
on Aug 13, 2013 at 5:37 pm
oh...twiddle dee-dee young lady, twiddle dee-dee
soooooooooo sorrrrrrrrrrrrry to disssssagree d
a resident of Downtown
on Aug 13, 2013 at 8:52 pm
Good thing mikie has cholo in his corner. I suppose day laborers can earn no higher praise. Mikie, it's time to come out of your basement in Berserkely and step out into the light. You provide no facts or stats to back up your claims, you are very emotional, bordering on psychotic, and you claim you don't work for BART. So, what exactly is your problem? Unhappy union rep., after realizing your ranks are diminishing and irrelevant?
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 14, 2013 at 5:39 am
I'm not surprised that you haven't heard the corporate media described as such until now. For the corporate media isn't in the business of revealing who owns and controls it, and to advance what corporate ends.
Of course, when you say you haven't heard of the 'corporate media' before, you're also revealing your own ignorance. Had you read anything outside the corporate-financed, right-wing echo machine, you'd know that social, political, and media researchers have been using the term for at least two decades. See, for example, the writings of Noam Chomsky, Ed Hermann, or Robert McChesney.
Your ignorance also helps explain why you have nothing of substance to offer the conversation.
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 14, 2013 at 6:25 am
There goes Mikie again, attacking any and all that use facts to refute his non-verifiable ramblings. Cholo and Mikie, what a pair!
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 14, 2013 at 7:28 am
The corporate media have provided only the distorted 'facts' that have been provided by BART management. The corporate media have not investigated whether management's 'facts' are deceitful or not.
Unions have presented their own facts. The corporate media has not presented these to its readers.
Now, if the unions' facts have been invalid, there'd very much be a story in that for corporate media reporters who always are looking for a scoop. But, guess what? No stories have been printed about the unions' 'misuse' of facts. Why? Because the unions' facts have not been misused at all. In fact, they are spot-on accurate.
It is painfully funny to observe corporate media writing stories without taking into account the actual facts. If they present the unions' accurate facts, then they're going to have to reveal how deceptive have been management's misuses. Better to simply ignore the unions' facts.
Doofusses like Dave drink up all the corporate supplied misinformation and then get all confused when presented with accurate information, facts. And there he stands, confusion upon confusion upon confusion, so confused he can't even come to realize he's confused. Poor thing.
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 14, 2013 at 7:38 am
I'm confused..............where are the links for the union facts? Mikie, could you supply those, please.
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 14, 2013 at 8:08 am
You bet you're confused.
Find the links yourself; it will be a good exercise for you if you desire to lift yourself out of the ideological muck you find yourself in.
a resident of Livermore
on Aug 14, 2013 at 9:14 am
tee hee hee...take your head out of the u know what and maybe you won't be so confused...tee hee...
I'm making up a very nice handout for people in need of free food...how do you like them apples DAVORA?
that's my task for today...
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 14, 2013 at 10:11 am
Kind of the reply that I expected from Mikie. Ask for his verifiable source of data and he can't produce. Oh well, continue to get irrelevant remarks that have no validity regarding the subject matter. I would ask (again) Mikie for his source and perhaps provide a link for the data. I'm sure there are others that would like to review the validated (by Mikie) data regarding the unions demands.
Speaking of irrelevant, Cholo, enough said!
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Aug 14, 2013 at 10:14 am
Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.
Mike doesn't provide facts or sites to support his information. And he starts new threads when losing the battle on previous threads. One might worry when your biggest supporter is Cholo. On the corporate news issue, wouldn't they then all look like the faux news station?
a resident of Livermore
on Aug 14, 2013 at 11:36 am
Cholo votes during every every election. He's such a nice person, wah wah wah...I'm being trashed!
Now, if David would only chill and not influence KR, this would be much nicer world...can we all get along?
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 14, 2013 at 11:59 am
How could the media report the union side when the union side only says the other side is lying and they will not respond to direct questions?
In a previous thread "mm" posted some direct facts that he/she heard and asked you to respond and all you could do is say it is all a lie. You could not correct the facts presented. That leaves most of us believing the facts. Mike, you can do everybody a favor by telling us which of these items that mm posted are not facts, AND what the right numbers are. Saying it is all lies and not supporting that does not give you one ounce of credibility.
Here are the items that "mm" posted previously. Would be great to get Mike to respond to each one factually (and correct with the 'right' information) and without emotion but don't think it is possible:
The unions were offered a raise, and they have rejected it.
The unions have 100% taxpayer-funded defined benefit pensions
The unions have $92/month health insurance, no matter the size of the family or cost of the insurance
The unions work less than 40 hours a week (unless they also add in overtime).
The unions can call in 'sick' or take a vacation day and then work on their day off and get paid overtime
The unions can continue to receive the $92/month health insurance, even after they leave BART.
The unions still get step raises, which they fail to mention.
The unions are demanding that if they pay the 7% of the pension cost that BART pays them 6.5% more in salary. Essentially saying they will pay only 1/2%.
None of these union jobs require any college training.
a resident of Downtown
on Aug 14, 2013 at 1:58 pm
Sorry to say, but don't hold your breath, JTR, mikie won't be able,to form an intelligent or even coherent response to your request. It's quite possible that he is one of the union negotiators, hence the unions failure to settle on a contract.
Maybe cholo is one of his lawyers...apologies to all you lawyers out there.
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 14, 2013 at 2:03 pm
The joke of an offer by Bart management is clear enough. Do the math. It amounts to a pay cut. In contrast, the workers are demanding a modest pay increase. Do the math. This is a no brainer, though dimwits like Dave, Timmy Hunt, and Queen Kathy refuse to think it through.
The unions have voiced their own demands, and they have provided clear enough info as to their average wage: $66K, not the $74K management has stated and corporate media have gobbled up and then spewed forth. If unions' demands are founded upon false numbers, then it would be in corporate media's interest to expose their falsity. Hasn't happened, because the unions' numbers are accurate; in attending to them, honestly, corporate media would have to expose falsity of management's numbers. So, corporate media simply ignores unions, and management's lies get regurgitated.
Haven't lost a battle yet, but rather must repeatedly expose Queen Kath as the silly goose she is and whose silliness is matched only by her laughable inability to realize it. Speaking of Kath, she apparently has difficulty seeing how corporate media are aligned on fundamental issues. Capitalism, for example. On this, there is fundamentally no difference between Fox and MSNBC. It's all faux news, Kath. Same advertisers, same ends -- to get viewers lathered up in the false idea that they partake of a democracy. If you want to read about WHY Kath and other closeted fascists express so many views in harmony with hate-based Dave, read Bertrand de Jouvenal's treatise On Propaganda.
Have any of my dimwit detractors offered a coherent argument against my position? No, small minds, all of them.
I usually don't link because I operate at a higher intellectual level than the lathered up dupes such as Dave/Kath. I appear to be one of the very few book readers on these sites. (See de Jouvenal.)
I initiated this site because Timmy the Tea-Shirt Hunt wrote yet another pathetic embrace of fascism, which called for an intelligent response. I do not use my real name because I am afraid of many of you who, I have no doubt, would attempt to seriously smear my name on the internet, or worse, if given the opportunity to do so.
Viva Bart Workers! Viva America's Workers! Viva All Workers of the World!
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 14, 2013 at 3:26 pm
Mikie, rather than making statements like "Although it may be fashionable for wealthy old fat guys in tight little-boy shirts to lie about BART workers -- and to do so in a cowardly way that closes off readers' challenges", why don't you learn how to become a registered member, than you could reply directly to Tim, rather than playing the spoiled little boy that couldn't. By the way, still looking for the source of your statement on union wages. Oh, also looking for an answer on the questions that JTR posed. Or can we expect more idiotic ramblings from Mikie. What a team, Cholo & Mikie!
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Aug 14, 2013 at 3:35 pm
Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.
Having a dismissive attitude does not mean you have won the day. The facts have been posted here and reported elsewhere. The contract, what the unions ask, what salaries and benefits are made are all public knowledge. The rest you post, as always and under many names, is blather.
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 14, 2013 at 4:06 pm
As expected, Mike cannot refute the claims in the statements that mm previously wrote. He can only make emotional statements and try and cut down anybody who is not of like mind as him.
Not going to hold my breath but maybe if we make the list shorter and present items that have absolutely no emotion to them, Mike can validate or correct, without emotion. I have reworded them slightly to take out any opinion in the statement, just a fact:
The union members have 100% taxpayer-funded defined benefit pensions
The union members have $92/month health insurance, no matter the size of the family or cost of the insurance
The union members work less than 40 hours a week (unless they also add in overtime).
The union members can call in sick or take a vacation day and then work on their day off and get paid overtime
The union members can continue to receive the $92/month health insurance, even after they leave BART.
The union members still get step raises.
I think the above sentences are formed in a way that are factual with no emotion. I seriously wanted Mike to let us know specifically what is wrong with these statements that the 'corporate media' is stating.
I also find no evidence of the average wage of $66K that he mentions instead of the $74K we read about. Even went to the BART union website and there was not mention of that.
a resident of Livermore
on Aug 14, 2013 at 4:43 pm
I'm cheering for the Union employees and remain hopeful that they will be heard and treated respectfully.
It ain't over until its over and then its just begun.
ps Just like the country club Union workers were victorious, the union members will be victorious!
Union is already victorious because they have already taken a clear stance and they have the support of other union workers! Is that wonderful news or what.
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 14, 2013 at 5:34 pm
The union chiefs want a strike and will do no negotiations until then. If you go to the bart union website, they have a countdown timer, down to the second, of when they will be going to strike. They cannot wait.
We need to remove the ability or transit workers to strike in California, like other states. Right now we are negotiating with a terrorist organization who are demanding money or they will bring BART to a halt and disrupt people getting to their jobs. No different than a group of terrorists blocking the bay bridge until they are paid off.
a resident of Livermore
on Aug 14, 2013 at 7:44 pm
Thank you for your various posts Mike Cherry! As you can see some folks have their dander up.
Not to worry. Some of the posters will try to bang you with various tactics but all you gotta do is keep expressing your thoughtful opinions. You do not come across as out of touch with reality and you can count on some readers thinking twice about where they stand because of your stance.
In about a week I'll be on vacation in Donostia/Basque Country, Spain for 8 days and I can hardly wait! Then I'll board a ship to London for 3 days and return to California! Take good care of yourself and don't take some of the posters too seriously. If you don't post for 2-3 days, most will start fighting with each other!
Keep in mind that many posters are entitled because they attended college. Many of them are angry that fellow Americans who did not earn a college degree are not as entitled as they. They feel angry because they believe that they were duped. They were duped! There are millions of Americans who did not attend college/university and they have done quite well in this life. They are good, productive American citizens and they have a right to define what they want in this life and because many are members of unions, they can work together to work it out. It often infuriates non-unions workers!
Don't get pulled into the nasty stuff which is always present.
Good luck Union members. You are definitely in my thoughts.
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 14, 2013 at 8:34 pm
To Cholo Cherry,
Don't think you know your audience. But that is ok.
Some people do not have issues with unions. However this public employee union has had it too good for too long and is upset that their gravy train might not continue forever. A government agency will not go out of business. It will just raise rates/taxes and lower the service level. They really do not care if the customer is happy or not since it does affect their own life. Different than a private union in a company that can go out of business if the price is too high and/or the level of service goes down. That is because of competition.
If it makes you happy, I did not go to college but have been successful in my work life even without being in a union. My success is directly related to the amount of work I put into it. I have absolutely no sense of entitlement. I am not entitled to anything. I have to work harder if I want more. I pay social security taxes but honestly do not even think social security will be there for me when I need it so I put money aside for my retirement.
I think the salaries the bart workers receive are quite good especially if you calculate take-home, spending pay.
They hardly pay for health insurance so you can reduce that from the amount of money somebody needs to make in the bay area to survive.
They do not pay for social security or their pension so they have more take home pay.
Since they have a defined-benefit pension, they do not have to put money aside for retirement so that gives them more spending money.
Once they have seniority, they cannot be fired. They do not have to worry about future job loss so they do not have to put money aside to have 6 months or so of salary saved up to hold them over should they be laid off because it cannot happen so that gives them more take home pay.
When they say how much it costs to live in the bay area, that assumes somebody on social security, paying social security taxes, paying a much higher percentage for health insurance, having to save money in case their job goes away, having to put money aside for retirement. If you figure the bart union members do not have these expenses, they can actually live for less than the private worker in the bay area. Comparing apples to oranges if you do not have the same level of expenses.
The BART workers have it REAL GOOD right now. Asking for the ridiculous salary increase plus not paying sufficiently for their health insurance or pensions is way over the top.
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 14, 2013 at 10:03 pm
The one point (well, one of many) that Mikie has consistently ignored is the fact that nobody on this posting (or any other postings) has ever advocated the total elimination of unions. The only person that has ever mentioned the elimination of unions is Mikie himself. He has consistently refused to provide specific verifiable data to support his claims regarding only the unions associated with BART. The BART workers are among the highest (if not the highest) compensated non-skilled transportation workers in the country and pay nothing for their pensions and $92 per month for family health care that can cost as much of $1,500 per month. Since these are public employees paid by public dollars, any attempted comparison to private business has no validity. As has been pointed out ad nauseam for Mikie, nobody is advocating the elimination of even this union, however certain safe guards need to be in place to assure the public is not held hostage to the unreasonable demands of an out of control union. Senator Mark DeSaulnier may have started in the right direction regarding some legislation that would keep the transit workers from ever striking again
Why Mikie continues to throw out idiotic remarks such as "I usually don't link because I operate at a higher intellectual level than the lathered up dupes such as Dave/Kath" does not in any way add value to any conversation and only shows Mikie's Only Child Syndrome side.
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 14, 2013 at 10:14 pm
You nailed it! If you've missed anything it is only the 37.5 hour work week, the OVERTIME exemption/rules that allow these public employee unions time-and-one-half or double-time pay rates even when they only work 37 hours or no more than 7.5 hours per day, and that taxpayers have to cover the cost of their failing pension plan - which is ballooning out of control.
To say BART employees have it too good is a gross understatement.
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 15, 2013 at 7:51 am
Gotta love the way Dave invents JTR in order to talk to himself....
Cholo, I love the Basque region. Bilbao is one of the most beautiful little cities I have ever seen, and the museum -- its exterior as well as interior (with the Serra structures) -- is something I wish everyone in the world could experience. When I was last in Bilbao, there were literally hundreds of sculpted cows situated on the downtown streets -- one of the most enchanting displays of public art I've ever seen.
As to engaging Timmy the Tea-Shirt Hunt, why risk my name and reputation so I can comment on his cowardly site where, not only does he close it off to nonregistered users, but where he's also too gutless to respond to any comments by the registered users. My own option is to write a parallel piece that exposes Hunt's own (poorly written) screeds as the superficial little fascist whimpers they are. Now, if I had no name or reputation, or if my reputation was already dirt like it is for one or two of the narcissistic posters, I'd register.
I don't know why JTR(Dave) continues to post ever-shrinking, corporate-supplied "facts" about BART workers. Only envy can explain his obsession. Yes, BART workers are positioned such that many other workers can aim for what BART workers have been able to achieve. That's what unions have done historically and continue to do today.
Instead of groveling in resentful pity for oneself, one should use BART as inspiration and go organize one's own workplace. Of course, one would have to be a functional human being to do such, which rules out so many of the resentful posters here, registered and nonregistered.
I agree with you, Cholo. So many of the resentful, spiteful ones fall well short of being worthy intellectual adversaries. Rather than think things through, they wrap themselves up in their own narcissistic blather while displaying petty resentments toward those who have the courage to organize themselves against the forces of ownership and control in America. Such is life.
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 15, 2013 at 8:48 am
Mikie, at this point, I don't think you have to worry about anybody besmirching your reputation. You've done an admirable job all by yourself! You could use any of your other names to register, such as Shoogy and Claude-Bob, as you have in the past on other postings. Still avoiding supplying any verifiable answers to the basic questions presented to you.
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 15, 2013 at 8:56 am
Yes, I know, Dave, many posters like yourself use multiple names to register multiple times.
But more important, Dave. What does JTR say?
Have anything to say about BART strike or how it is being 'covered' by the corporate media? Or are you intent simply to bark up a tree about how unionized workers have organized for themselves a better life than you've been able to do for yourself and family?
Cholo: Have a great time in the Basque region!!! And to think, neither Kath Regslegger nor Dave has asked you yet how you're getting there on food stamps!!!
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 15, 2013 at 9:06 am
Still avoiding the questions regarding the BART union. Feel free to use any of your past aliases, such as Shoogy and Claude-Bob to answer.
Regarding Cholo, I hope she has a wonderful time on her vacation regardless of how she finances it.
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 15, 2013 at 9:13 am
Dave, my reputation exists outside the confines of the PW forum. I do understand, however, how your own identity is bound up with your resentful rants about how courageous union workers have a better life than you do.
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 15, 2013 at 9:23 am
Back to the basic questions presented innumerable times to you that only need a yes or no answer from you.
Do the union members have 100% taxpayer-funded defined benefit pensions?
Do the union members have $92/month health insurance, no matter the size of the family or cost of the insurance?
Do the union members work less than 40 hours a week (unless they also add in overtime)?
Can the union members can call in sick or take a vacation day and then work on their day off and get paid overtime?
Can the union members continue to receive the $92/month health insurance, even after they leave BART.
Do the union members still get step raises?
a resident of Livermore
on Aug 15, 2013 at 10:39 am
I plan to have a wonderful vacation, visit a few relatives who are still ALIVE! and inquire about what family members are thriving in Argentina. We were political refugees because my father was involved in activity against a ruthless military regime. My parents suffered greatly and did everything they could to protect the family. My mother's family disappeared in Argentina. We escaped through Costa Rica, flew to Madrid, and slipped out of Madrid because of Franco. We settled in the Basque Country and eventually, England. That's where I attended the equivalent of high school in America.
My greatest hero has always been Jacobo (Jacob)Timmerman in Buenos Aires where I grew up.
Mike Cherry, it may be best to dismiss the questions of certain posters on this blog. You're a convenient target at present and many will hound you until they feel that they've made you heel.
Please continue to provide useful and informative information. Avoid the nastiness and name calling. It denies their presence and they are stuck with themselves...tee hee hee...GORA!
a resident of Livermore
on Aug 15, 2013 at 10:47 am
Mike Cherry: Some of the posters will do their best to shame you and report the slightest comments that they perceive as hostile.
Keep in mind, YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR DISTORTIONS!
Long Live Unions - GORA!
a resident of Livermore
on Aug 15, 2013 at 1:07 pm
Correction: Jacobo Timerman
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Aug 15, 2013 at 2:04 pm
Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.
Cholo, you can't be a "target" if you started the topic. Reports from the Governor's committee and the current contract are not distortions. No one has been censored on this thread.
a resident of Livermore
on Aug 15, 2013 at 5:54 pm
Mike Cherry:
Anybody can be passed off as a threat, with enuf hot air and yellow journalism! Anybody.
You get split off as the bad object; it's called splitting by psychotherapists.
a resident of Livermore
on Aug 15, 2013 at 5:56 pm
Mike Cherry: Splitting can be diagnostic.
a resident of Livermore
on Aug 15, 2013 at 8:24 pm
Mike Cherry: In my opinion, what's being said about you is enough for others who are reading the entries on this blog to target you.
Some posters pass themselves off as enjoying the argument. Pay attention. The more extremist readers/observers are carefully reading what you are saying. It's what the innocent appearing others are saying/posting that's inflammatory.
You have already been split-off as a bad object, and the mentality that drives the behavior of some readers is quite possibly unpredictable.
There are individuals/groups in the general area of Pleasanton who belong to extremist groups that are capable of acting out by targeting you in some way.
Mike, be careful. The union needs supporters like you.
Some individuals who post and protect themselves by couching their comments as legitimate intellectual discussion/argument could be leading you on.
Extremist individuals do post on this blog and many could easily be characterized as grounded in hate ideology.
I wish you well.
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 16, 2013 at 8:38 am
Yes, Cholo, all too many of the posters here take their citizenship for granted and couch their hollow views in terms of pseudo-Constitutionalism. They have no concept of the kinds of political horrors that have been and continue to be inflicted upon innocent people -- often union activist workers -- and drive them to earn immigrant status in another country. Others, too, I fear would love America to have its own Franco in order to drive our immigrant population into oblivion. Of course the likes of Dave, Kath and the rest of the tea party goons who post here keep fascist 'dreams' alive, whether they be those of Franco or Sarah Palin.
As you know, Madrid, nothing like it was during Franco's rule, is one of the world's greatest cities. If you fly through on your way to the Basque country, hope you can layover a day or two and soak in some of Madrid's world-class art museums during the day and its vibrant flamenco music scene at night. Viva Paco! Viva Diego! Viva Vincente! Viva Sabicas!
Wishing you happiest of travels. Hasta! Mike
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Aug 16, 2013 at 1:06 pm
Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.
You continue to make declarations about people that are not yours, or Cholo's, to make. It is unlikely you know any of the posters personally. Please try to use facts rather than assumptions and innuendo.
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 16, 2013 at 1:20 pm
Daveg is a registered user.
Mikie is still struggling how to continue not to answer the basic questions asked of him. His continued effort to divert legitimate questions regarding the union and its demands only shows that he really has nothing of value to add.
Questions to Mikie (again, again!)that only require a yes or no answer from him.
Do the union members have 100% taxpayer-funded defined benefit pensions?
Do the union members have $92/month health insurance, no matter the size of the family or cost of the insurance?
Do the union members work less than 40 hours a week (unless they also add in overtime)?
Can the union members call in sick or take a vacation day and then work on their day off and get paid overtime?
Can the union members continue to receive the $92/month health insurance, even after they leave BART.
Do the union members still get step raises?
None of these require additional side remarks from Mikie; hopefully he will be able to answer simply as requested.
a resident of Livermore
on Aug 16, 2013 at 3:08 pm
Mike Cherry: Ignore the baiting tactics of Kathleen and Daveg.
When you provide helpful information and avoid what seem to be logical questions/analysis, you will reach more people that read this blog.
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Aug 16, 2013 at 3:14 pm
Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.
Seeking the truth isn't baiting, Cholo. What helpful information has been provided by Mike?
a resident of Livermore
on Aug 16, 2013 at 4:48 pm
Mike, you're being played...again. The information that you put out is quite likely being forwarded and read by BART management.
Consider providing information to readers but not responding to Kathleen, Daveg, and Dave.
In my opinion, Kathleen, Daveg, and Dave are baiting you. I don't experience Kathleen's cool, collected and logical style the least bit sincere. Daveg and Dave are plain ole nasty and juvenile. Not at concerned about how they touch upon the lives of innocent others that they seemingly enjoy banging.
There is quite possibly more mileage in educating the public about this struggle between the Union and BART and not justifying and backing up every word and letter that you post just because one of them poses more questions. They know how to create chaos.
a resident of Bridle Creek
on Aug 16, 2013 at 5:34 pm
Cholo said:
"In my opinion, Kathleen, Daveg, and Dave are baiting you. I don't experience Kathleen's cool, collected and logical style the least bit sincere. Daveg and Dave are plain ole nasty and juvenile. Not at concerned about how they touch upon the lives of innocent others that they seemingly enjoy banging."
Glad to have you on the side of rationality, Cholo. Far too many people get duped by this person/persons/whatever. I hope that, over time, others also come to see them for what they are.
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Aug 17, 2013 at 7:52 am
Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.
Several people have posted information and links to data. Mike, and now Cholo and NS, have made many statements without supporting information. When asked any question to clarify those statements, there are only more statements and no supporting data for the claims. If there is baiting, it would be Mike and chorus making assumptions and assertions that others consistently continue to disprove.
As to this statement, Cholo: "I don't experience Kathleen's cool, collected and logical style the least bit sincere." Make every attempt to be civil; aim to be clear about what is fact and what is opinion; acting with the same bad manners as others makes a person look as foolish as those first misbehaving. There are also rules for posting on PW; although, it appears how they are applied is random.
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 17, 2013 at 8:47 am
Old Kath demands facts, but once they go into her 'fact processing machine' they get distorted beyond recognition.
Old Kath demands facts, and does so without any apparent recognition of how facts mean nothing if they are processed outside a coherent thought process.
I see no evidence of any logical style from Kath, beyond sniping about a fact here or a fact there. When asked to defend her thoughts about something, or the logical framework within which they are being developed, she always falls back on sniping or a promise to get back to the board. This is both cowardly and devoid of any semblance of rational thought on her part. She assumes everybody thinks like her -- after all, she's seen her opinions expressed in the news. She can provide a link! What a laugh. This amounts to an unfortunate symptom of all fascist supporters who would find great comfort in living under fascist totalitarian rule.
My own stated opinions, on this and other sites, have consistently been packaged as arguments backed by good reasons, as well as facts. When folks have asked for clarification re. my thought processes, I have given it, and where there's reliable information, I've supplied it. But folks who have difficulty with reasoning and logic, tend to feel a certain seasickness whenever they're confronted by a validity claim backed by good reasons. Hence the irrational demand for facts, facts, and more facts. Socrates claims: All men are mortal, and Socrates is a man, therefore Socrates is moral. Queen Kath retorts: "Where's your link?"
I asked repeatedly for Kath or her other monikers to defend the claim that her/their position differs from fascism. But once such a request goes into the maelstrom of her unexamined biases and media-supplied 'correct ways of thinking about things' all we get is: Employers shouldn't be responsible for workers' benefits! Employers shouldn't provide pensions for their workers! I'm a libertarian! I don't believe people should get govt assistance! Let their kids starve! I love children! And more jumbled blather. In other words, once drawn out from her cowardly snipes, there's nothing there but a concoction of bizarre, indefensible beliefs.
This is way, in the final analysis, workers will win the day. Their opponents have nothing but power, wealth, and legions of ignorant ones like Kath/Dave who slurp up corporate media-supplied swill.
Viva Workers! Viva Democracy! Viva Justice!
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 17, 2013 at 9:03 am
Daveg is a registered user.
It is interesting to note that this posting was originated by Mike Cherry with his first statement being "For weeks BART management has waged a PR campaign in the corporate media which, in turn, has uncritically reproduced BART management's deceptive numbers without so much as a mention of how those numbers are contradicted by the more reliable numbers offered by BART's workers". Yet when asked to supply those "more reliable numbers" has resorted to plain old name calling. How repeated requests for those numbers and the sources for such numbers can be construed as 'plain ole nasty and juvenile" is puzzling.
Are these sample remarks attributed to Mike Cherry and Cholo an example of mature and respectable?
From Mike Cherry - And to think, neither Kath Regslegger nor Dave has asked you yet how you're getting there on food stamps!!!
From Cholo - tee hee hee...take your head out of the u know what and maybe you won't be so confused...tee hee...
I would encourage all to review the comments on this and other postings and determine if Mike has answered the questions presented to him following his many postings.
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 17, 2013 at 9:12 am
Still waiting for you to describe for us the variant of fascist you subscribe to, Dave. Why are you afraid to put your ideas to the test of a public forum?
There has been a court injunction against management and workers waging their campaign through the news. The workers, with the exception of some union spokespersons who have felt the need to correct management's distorted facts, have abided by the injunction. Management has not, and has used the corporate media as its own tool.
What have you offered to this thread, Dave, beyond "Woe is me Bart workers make more than I do!" From the 'quality of your arguments, Dave, I have no problem at all with accepting that reality.' Selfish little chirping from yourself -- a castoff from the greedy ones who made it but who left you behind -- offers pretty good reason for why your life hasn't turned out very well for you.
Unfortunately, all too many within our corporate capitalist state suffer the same fate as you have. Fortunately, there are still organized workers who have the courage and smarts to stand shoulder to shoulder in solidary ... as opposed to the little lonesome chirpers like yourself. Your envy is quite transparent.
a resident of Livermore
on Aug 17, 2013 at 9:51 am
Did somebody say "chirp"! If that's not waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay cute I don't know what it!
Folks that work for a living and provide the services for which they are paid luv luv luv refried beans, ribs, chicken salad, raw squid which I luuuuuuuv, lettuce, chow mein, tomatoes, baked fish, raw fish, shell fish, fish cakes, fish tails, fish eyes with scrambled eggs, yum yum plenty, apples, oranges, a kumara!
Some of you ole raggedy holier than thou has beens need a good nap, bath, toothbrush, and an honest job. Work for a living creeps...
I'll be leaving soon and can hardly wait to learn how many more illegals enter our country! HOORAY!!! I can hardly wait to go shopping in London.
ta-ta daveg...tee hee hee
a resident of Livermore
on Aug 17, 2013 at 9:53 am
Correction: an kumara...that yummy little round fruit found all over Greece!
a resident of Livermore
on Aug 17, 2013 at 9:54 am
OOPS! and kumara!
a resident of Livermore
on Aug 17, 2013 at 10:00 am
Plus I plan to visit Harrod's, sample free treats, and buy some of these.....Web Link
ta-ta I'll miss the jealous bugs...
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Aug 17, 2013 at 10:02 am
Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.
Mike says, "My own stated opinions, on this and other sites, have consistently been packaged as arguments backed by good reasons, as well as facts." And then tries to attribute this to me, "Employers shouldn't be responsible for workers' benefits! Employers shouldn't provide pensions for their workers! I'm a libertarian! I don't believe people should get govt assistance! Let their kids starve! I love children! And more jumbled blather. In other words, once drawn out from her cowardly snipes, there's nothing there but a concoction of bizarre, indefensible beliefs." With the exception of loving children, all fabrications.
Didn't see that I was quoted in the press.
Fascism is a straw man tactic that requires no response.
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 17, 2013 at 10:06 am
Daveg is a registered user.
Cholo, have a wonderful vacation!
a resident of Bridle Creek
on Aug 17, 2013 at 10:10 am
"Didn't see that I was quoted in the press.
Fascism is a straw man tactic that requires no response."
Weak and evasive
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Aug 17, 2013 at 10:59 am
Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.
I did not see it-- fact. Provide the date and paper?
Straw man: "This sort of 'reasoning' is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself." I do not support the position of BART unions in this contract negotiation. I quoted the SEIU contract and info from the Governor's committee. Calling out fascism is a straw man.
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 17, 2013 at 12:52 pm
Daveg is a registered user.
I would think that if Fascism is something Mikie or Nurse Shark would like to discuss, they could start a posting for the subject. In the meantime, perhaps Mikie could stick to the subject that he initiated with this posting. That is, discussion on the BART union and rather or not their demands are "reasonable". The questions asked of Mikie are simple ones regarding the current benefits that this union has and what are their additional demands. To date, his continued rants against anybody that poses such questions is perhaps more of an indicator of his mind set and does nothing to encourage meaningful dialogue. Evasive is a technique that Mikie has apparently mastered, at least he must think so.
a resident of Livermore
on Aug 17, 2013 at 3:53 pm
Post for Cholo: Web Link
By Stanford professor.
a resident of Livermore
on Aug 17, 2013 at 4:00 pm
William B. Gould IV - Legal Scholar
for Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Aug 17, 2013 at 4:02 pm
William B. Gould IV - Web Link
for Cholo
a resident of Livermore
on Aug 17, 2013 at 6:57 pm
William B. Gould IV,Direct decendant of a Black Slave:
Web Link
A wonderful human interest story!
chirp chirp...
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 17, 2013 at 7:41 pm
Seeing one's opinions or like-opinions stated in the news isn't exactly seeing oneself in the news. Only a very big and very weak ego could make the leap. Good one, Kath! Your narcissism really knows no bounds.
Evasive. Great descriptor. Thanks Nurse Shark. Kath/Dave, time and again, wriggle out of defending their thoughts. Why? Because their thoughts are largely unexamined, as they instead fall back upon bias and resentment toward others. Snipe-snipe. Chirp-chirp. Nothing more.
Kath, when not dreaming of having herself written about in the media, can only take facts, more often than not misread them (see my first paragraph above), and then exclaim: Not enough facts! Not enough links!
Beyond such exclamations, there are also the repetitious denials of what she said, or didn't say, or meant, or didn't mean. Why the need for all these denials? Because the opinions she expresses, so often unhitched to any logical thought pattern, are flopping in the wind, subject to just about any interpretation one wants to assign to them.
I've asked repeatedly for a coherent defense of her self-proclaimed libertarianism and how it differs from full-throated fascism. Does she provide such? Of course not. Can she do so? I doubt it. As such, her claims that Bart workers' demands are outrageous, that workers generally shouldn't receive pensions or benefits from their employers, combined with her previously expressed paranoia about workers pooping in her father's pick-up truck, hold no validity. She could try to correct my claims with a well-developed, coherent argument. But to the best of my knowledge she's never done this, nor can she. All she can do is call for links, and make ignorant statements about survival of the fittest in human society, and the like. There's nothing there beyond a small mind filled with resentment toward those who she believes shouldn't be doing better than she does with her state-supplied pension.
This thread was originally started up as a response to the doofus who writes opinion pieces for the PW but who obviously spends most of his time at the 19th hole complaining about Bart workers' lavish lifestyles. I think I pretty thoroughly discredited his ill-formed, ridiculous views. No links were needed.
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Aug 17, 2013 at 8:05 pm
Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is." Winston Churchill There is no logical reason me to refute your false claims and straw man nonsense. Keep up with the lies and assumptions and innuendo, Mike. After all, it's all you have.
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 17, 2013 at 8:11 pm
Correction, Kath. I have a lot more than you do. Any thoughts of your own, beyond Winston Churchill's innocuous rhetorical quip? And from a politician, no less. My, we are gullible!
For a contrary view, see George Orwell's reference to the Ministry of Truth in Oceania; tie to modern-day corporate media's distortion of all reality. In case you want to accuse me of citing a piece of fiction, please read Orwell's serious essays. Orwell, by the way, defined himself as a democratic socialist; his defenses of unions were robust.
Now, care to develop a well-developed thought that is actually your own? Didn't think so.
a resident of Bridle Creek
on Aug 17, 2013 at 9:00 pm
Look at that: Staceleen googled a quote. Will wonders never cease.
Mike, I think you may be on to something with the "seeing her name all over the forum allows Staceleen to believe that this makes her part of the news" theory. I've long struggled to imagine what kind of motivation could glue her to a small-town blog like a World of Warcraft addict for so many years, and your theory makes sense to me.
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Aug 17, 2013 at 9:04 pm
Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.
I don't support the unions' stance. There is a direct correlation between what one can expect to earn and the services provided. What BART employees earn is more than generous, in my opinion. All anyone has to do is read the contracts; read the Governor's committee report; and then make up their own mind. So far, the "corporate" media polls do not favor the unions.
What you've attempted to do, time and again, is to repeat falsehoods, to make the discussion a personal attack, and to steer the discussion away from BART.
a resident of Bridle Creek
on Aug 17, 2013 at 9:10 pm
Cuz, you know, what we discuss here will greatly affect the BART negotiations....
Oh wait, am I part of the news story now, too?
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 17, 2013 at 9:11 pm
Daveg is a registered user.
Mikie, rather than continuing to babble on with your comments that have no bearing on the BART stalemate, I would be interested to know if you have bothered to read the article that your cohort, Cholo provided the link to. Basically it espouses using binding arbitration, much like Major League Baseball has used since 1973. Is that something that you would support?
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 17, 2013 at 9:23 pm
So, Kath, instead of snipe-swipe with the Churchill quip, care to actually defend his statement? You know, that would entail actually putting your brain to work instead playing the Little Miss Churlish game all day, every day.
Baseball players have accepted binding arbitration for individual salaries; I'm unaware of binding arbitration being used to resolve full-fledged contracts between MLB and Players' Union. As far as I know, unions still possess the right to strike; as owners have the right to lock out. Forfeiting one's threat to strike in negotiations with owners/managers who have the right to lock out? Nuh-uh. You do understand the distinction I'm making, don't you Dave? Dave? Dave?
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 17, 2013 at 9:36 pm
Daveg is a registered user.
Mikie, The link that your cohort supplied is entitled "A route around a BART strike" authored by somebody that Cholo obviously admires. He is the one that made the correlation with MLB. My only question to you after reading the article (you have read it, right?) is would you support his suggestion of binding arbitration? Or do I note a crack in the Cholo Cherry mutual admiration society?
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 17, 2013 at 9:42 pm
The idea of 'mutual admiration' has its place in fascist, totalitarian regimes in which the 'leader(s)' possesses charismatic authority. That's your universe, Dave, not mine; and I doubt it is Cholo's either.
I do not support binding arbitrary for Bart workers. Their strike, and threat to strike, is working well enough. Let's see how it turns out.
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 17, 2013 at 10:03 pm
Daveg is a registered user.
Mikie, thanks for finally answering a question. Re "mutual admiration" comment, I think the following more accurately conveys you and Cholo. "A group of two or more people, in a workplace or other social environment, who routinely express considerable esteem and support for one another, sometimes to the point of exaggeration or pretense". Sounds like your universe. But hey, thanks again for answering my question.
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 18, 2013 at 12:22 am
I urge you to stick to the topic, Dave. I realize that is difficult for you to do so with so much swirling around in your head.
You asked about binding arbitration, I responded. I'll respond again. Binding arbitration can work; but binding arbitration depends upon both sides deciding, in the here and now, to submit to an arbitrator's decision. This should it override a worker's right to strike. What? You agree? You disagree? Oh, you don't know what you're talking about? I see.
Now, as to your rather inordinate fixation with Cholo and me, Dave, I'll leave you to play your piccolo as you obsess over matters in your own head which have no bearing whatsoever on Bart workers getting a fair contract in return for their labor.
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Aug 18, 2013 at 3:46 am
Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.
". . . Bart workers getting a fair contract in return for their labor." The general consensus of riders, taxpayers, and management--maybe even the Governor?--seems to be that the unions have overreached.
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 18, 2013 at 7:56 am
Kath contributes yet another dishonest point of view. Fact is, with a gag order placed on both sides in this labor dispute, the public knows very little about the specifics of the labor dispute. About the best they can muster is that, as a single nonscientific poll has indicated, they think management has made a better case in the media than has the union. Kath takes this to mean that a 'general consensus' thinks the unions has overreached. Her comment is inaccurate, and it is dumb.
We have come to expect little else from Kath. We know that beneath her catty little quips there isn't much going on except for some rigid biases that developed during her childhood in Chicago when, she claims, union members threatened to poop in people's cars and trucks. Never having recovered from her little girl experiences, she prints hyperbolic claims that are untethered to reality.
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Aug 18, 2013 at 12:32 pm
Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.
Key word, "seems." And we know the contract; we know where the terms stood as of the committee report. 2:1 even in one poll is not going as you would hope.
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 18, 2013 at 1:29 pm
Gotta love this one, Kath's recent intellectual contribution to the thread. Now we're supposed to ponder over her use of the word, 'seem'.
So, we go from a laughable little corporate-sponsored poll re. public's view of Bart management's use of the corporate media, to Kath's stating the poll 'seems' to indicate a consensus among riders, citizens, the Governor, and, who knows, maybe even God. When held accountable for her sloppy reasoning, she falls back upon a dishonest attempt wriggle free based on the meaning of 'seems'. What has come increasingly into view here is a basic dishonesty that runs throughout Kath's posts. I guess most posters already knew this, while I've been too busy laughing at her inability to clearly state anything without dissembling, denying, and assuring us that her ideas aren't as vapid as they, er, seem.
a resident of Vintage Hills
on Aug 18, 2013 at 1:58 pm
Kathleen Ruegsegger is a registered user.
The problem is yours, Mike. As usual, you had to twist the post to continue your rants, assumptions about posters, assertions without basis, straw man arguments, and other diversionary tactics. That much is very clear.
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 18, 2013 at 2:17 pm
Even your attempts to save face are weak, Kath. The problem is mine? I'll tell you what. When I've sunk to the depths of systematically misusing data as you do, and then further besmirching my already amply besotted reputation by claiming my arguments rest on my use of 'seems', I'll own up to having a problem. Until then, I'll continue to enjoy the shows you offer us.
Want to give it another whirl, Kath? C'mon, don't give up: give us the links and tell us how those links verify the conclusions you have drawn. We'd all love another laugher from you.
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 18, 2013 at 3:07 pm
Daveg is a registered user.
Mikie could never be accused of systematically misusing data, as he has yet to supplied anything to support his position, other than typical bluster with nothing behind it. And Mikie is afraid to become a registered user because his reputation might be impacted! The question that Mikie continues to refuse to answer are not emotionally generated or opinion, but rather simply a request for his own verification, yea or nay. Perhaps Mikie could tell us how his conclusions can be verified.
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 18, 2013 at 3:19 pm
Logic, Dave. Ever hear of it? It's essential to mounting an argument. It goes beyond -- "Yeah, well MY corporately owned newspaper says THIS, and so it must be true!"
You sure want to find out my real name, don't you? I wonder why?
a resident of Birdland
on Aug 18, 2013 at 3:27 pm
Daveg is a registered user.
Mikie if you registered, you could comment on other postings that you feel that you have been shut out from. You value your worth much higher than I do, because I have no interest in knowing your real name. Get over yourself.
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 18, 2013 at 4:35 pm
Okay, okay, let's drop the topics of the Bart labor conflict and how it's treated within the corporate media. Let's all instead talk about Dave's fixation with my real name.
Registering wouldn't have done me any good with the Tim Hunt 19th Hole posts, Dave. He's too much of a coward to respond to what any of the registered posters say. Not much of a conversationalist (nor much of a writer for that matter), he simply dumps and runs. I personally don't have a nose for that. Dave obviously does.
a resident of Livermore
on Aug 18, 2013 at 8:24 pm
They're getting angrier and want to set you up for anonymous harm.
Dave, Daveg, Kathleen,and a few other hang around fort types...time to go to sleep as I split tomorrow!
CHIRP CHIRP CHIRPY! adios amigos...chirp chirp chirpy!
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 18, 2013 at 9:39 pm
Yeah, poor insecure Kath and the pitiable guy who's figured out how to post under multiple monikers while saying the exact same thing, ad nauseum. They are quite a pair!
Have a great trip, Cholo. Send us a picture of you sitting on one of Bilbao's sculpted cows! All best, Mike
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2017 guide to summer camps
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text:
From the Thorpe UK Catalogue (page 14, current one):
"A wild colony in Europe builds comb for brood at 35-38mm centers. This is deep enough for worker brood cells, with enough space between facing combs for nurse bees to tend larvae oon both combs at the same time. For frames that the queen will lay in, whether deep or shallow, this spacing must be adhered to. In the wild, colonies build combs for honey storage much wider than for brrod and often with drone sized cells. Less wax is used and more honey is stored for far less effort. The beekeeper may want to keep all frames though the hive at the narrow spacing, or use wider spacing for honey supers by using wide ends."
So, two questions: 35-38mm for the brood? Thought it needed to be 35mm exactly?
Other thing is, how thick does a feral colony build its honey stores, and would it make sense to have wider bars for that part, and if so, how wide should they be?

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Ann Maria Coburn and Cristina Franco, "Jesus Christ Is My Savior and Redeemer," Liahona, Apr. 2011
What would you be willing to give for someone you love very, very much? Our Savior, Jesus Christ, loves us so much that He gave His own life for us.
Joshua J. Perkey, "Building on a Sure Foundation," Liahona, June 2011
I had a difficult time believing what the Mormon missionaries taught me about the need for the Atonement, priesthood authority, and prophets. Indeed, my journey to conversion took me six long years of constantly challenging and questioning who I was, what I believed, and whether there could, in fact, be a God who had established eternal principles of truth and error, sin and consequence.
Jane Bleak, "He Carried My Sorrows," Liahona, June 2011
We are not left alone in our grief because Jesus Christ—"a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief" (Isaiah 53:3)—has borne our sorrows as part of the Atonement.
Richard M. Romney, "Sailing Safely Home," Liahona, June 2011
Though the seas of life may be rough at times, Latter-day Saint teens in Visakhapatnam, India, know that the harbor of home is a haven of peace.
María Isabel Parra de Uribe, "When I Meet My Brother Again," Liahona, July 2011
I'm sure there will be hugs and kisses and loving words—all thanks to the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Because of the Savior we will all rise from the grave and can be reunited as families, never to be separated again.
Joelyn Hansen, "Did He Really Ask Me That?" Liahona, Aug. 2011
As we sat in her living room and listened to her, the Spirit was strong and prompted us to bear testimony of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
Cheryl Esplin, "I Will Remember Jesus Christ," Liahona, Dec. 2009
Each Sunday at church when you take the sacrament, you should remember Jesus Christ's Atonement, as well as the promises you make to Heavenly Father when you are baptized.


text:
Botetourt County Libraries
Jump Links:
Steve Vest
(540) 928-2900
The Botetourt County Libraries serve the residents of Botetourt County and the Roanoke Valley. The library system has collections of over 150,000 items including books, DVDs, videos, audio tapes and magazines.
- Botetourt County Library, in cooperation with the other members of the Roanoke Valley Libraries, is offering a new free service in downloadable e-books and audiobooks. The service went into effect June 6, 2011.
Locations and Hours
Blue Ridge Library
28 Avery Row
Buchanan Library
19795 Main Street
Eagle Rock Library
Fincastle Library
11 Academy Street
Mon, Tue, Thur 9 - 9
Wed 9 - 6
Sat 9 - 2
Mon & Thur 9 - 7
Tue & Wed 9 - 5
Fri 9 - 5
Sat 9 - 1
Mon - Thur 9-7
Fri 9-5
Sat 9-1
Mon & Thur 9 - 9
Tue & Wed 9 - 6
Fri 9 - 5
Sat 9 - 1
The bookmobile travels throughout Botetourt County and usually serves each stop once every two weeks. The bookmobile does not operate on days which happen to be the fifth Monday, Tuesday, or Thursday of the month. A library card from any of the Roanoke Valley Libraries (Botetourt County, Roanoke City, Roanoke County and Salem) may be used on the bookmobile.
For additional information, call the Fincastle Library at 928-2700.
Bookmobile Schedule rev 02/05
Any resident of the Roanoke Valley who is at least 5 years old may apply for a free borrower's card. Children under the age of 13 need a parent or guardian's signature. Proof of permanent address, such as a driver's license, bill, check, or a letter addressed to the applicant, is required.
Loan periods vary by type of material. Most books and audio tapes may be borrowed for a period of four weeks but some new and high-demand items may be borrowed for only two weeks. Magazines and CD-ROMs may be borrowed for two weeks. and most videos and DVDs circulate for four days.
Most books may be renewed twice, and videos and DVDs may be renewed once. Renewals may be done via the library's online catalog (www.rvl.info), by calling, or by coming to the library in person. Any item that has a hold on it may not be renewed.
The Botetourt County Public Library meeting rooms serve the public by allowing organizations and groups of an educational, cultural, or civic nature to use the meeting rooms for a modest fee when the rooms are not needed for activities sponsored in whole or in part by the library. Room use is on a first-come, first served basis.
Library Partners
The Botetourt County Friends of the Library is an organization that helps to support the programs of the library. Members are citizens of the community who have a special interest in the library and its mission. Anyone is welcome to join. The Friends raise money through book sales and help to pay the cost of the library's summer reading programs. The Friends have also contributed toward the purchase of books and videos, sponsored author presentations and sponsored the library's annual poetry contest.
The Botetourt library system is part of the Roanoke Area Libraries group which shares a common borrower's card and computer catalog. Botetourt patrons may also obtain books and other materials from the collections of the Roanoke City, Roanoke County, and Salem libraries at no charge.


text:
Captain: Boy Can't Escape Guilt for Triple Murder
Young Suspect, 14, To Be Tried As Adult
GREENVILLE - A Pitt County judge ruled Wednesday the 14-year-old suspect arrested in the Farmville triple murder will be tried as an adult.
Judge Galen Braddy made the decision during a close-door session, according to Pitt County Sheriff's Captain Paula Dance. The boy, whose name is not yet being revealed, will face three counts of murder for the April 1 Hustle Mart shooting.
Nabil Almoganahi, David Alawi, and Sam Almoganahi were shot and killed at the store, a crime captured entirely on the mini-mart's surveillance cameras.
Captain Dance leads the Sheriff's Office investigation, and said in an interview Wednesday the 14-year-old acted as an adult in a crime that was cruel, contemplated and deliberate.
"We're talking about people with guns, going into stores and just killing innocent people," Dance said. "Just for the self gratification of getting money."
The suspect has 10 days to appeal the decision. If the appeal is denied, his name will be revealed, and he could face the possibility of life in prison.
Prosecutors can not seek the death penalty for the boy. Under North Carolina law, capital punishment can only be administered to offenders 18 or older.
Captain Dance said the case against the defendant is strong.
"The evidence in this case, being the surveillance video tape, clearly shows what transpired in that store," Dance said. "Investigators usually have to piece together what happened during a crime. We can see it all right here."
The three other suspects accused of murder are all adults. Antwan Anthony, 29, Xavier Shamble, 19, and Willie Whitehead, 23, have been indicted on three counts of murder, kidnapping and robbery. They face the death penalty if convicted.
The 14-year-old did not have a gun on the night of the bloodshed, but deputies said he was part of the heist, and can not shed guilt.
"You may not be the one who pulls the trigger. But if you actively participate in a crime of this nature, then you're just as guilty as the rest of the people who participated in the crime," Dance said.
When asked if it was right to charge the boy as an adult, the veteran captain answered with conviction.
"I believe that it is," Dance replied. "I believe that's what the family wants. I stand by it 100 percent. We're not talking about somebody going in and taking a piece of bubble gum, and mom taking you back to give it back and say, "hey, I'm sorry." We can't say I'm sorry in this instance."
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Peter LaFuria, right, and attorney Glen Vamvoras accompanies him. (American Press Archives)
Last Modified: Thursday, October 11, 2012 4:59 PM
By Johnathan Manning / American Press
The crux of Wednesday's motion to suppress evidence hearing in Peter LaFuria's video voyeurism case was whether LaFuria's truck was included in a search warrant.
Both prosecutors and defense attorneys agreed that if the evidence take from the truck is declared inadmissible, it is likely the evidence from LaFuria's house will be inadmissible also, since evidence from the truck led investigators to search the house.
Glen Vamvoras, LaFuria's defense attorney, said he would go a step further — that if the truck evidence is ruled inadmissible, he will ask that evidence taken from LaFuria's medical office be ruled inadmissible also.
LaFuria, a former Lake Charles gynecologist, is accused of taking photos of his undressed patients. He is charged with 186 counts of video voyeurism, 78 counts of sexual battery and five counts of molestation of a juvenile.
The case, which dates from April 2007, has been held up by the motion to suppress evidence, which Vamvoras said he initially filed in October 2007.
On Wednesday, the case was continued again. After a morning in which a motion to quash charges was denied and a supplemental offense report was hotly debated, the motion to suppress dragged into the evening.
With witnesses still to be called at 6 p.m., the judge decided to resume the hearing Nov. 9, meaning LaFuria's Nov. 5 trial date will be pushed back.
A mock jury selection will be held Oct. 22 and a change of venue hearing will be held Oct. 23.
Calcasieu Parish Sheriff's Office detective Patty Bailey was on the stand when the motion was halted.
Bailey said the Sheriff's Office began investigating after one of LaFuria's patients complained on April 20, 2007, that he had taken a picture of her genitals without her consent.
Bailey said the woman's sister and husband confronted LaFuria, who claimed to have taken the photo for medical documentation of scar tissue. LaFuria claimed the photo did not develop because the battery died, Bailey said.
When no photo could be found in the woman's medical records or the need for a photo to be taken, authorities went to obtain a search warrant, Bailey said.
She said she initially asked Judge Rick Bryant for a search warrant that included LaFuria's medical office and all vehicles on the premises and his house and all vehicles on the premises. Bryant said there wasn't yet probable cause to search LaFuria's house and gave her a search warrant that included LaFuria's practice and the vehicles on the premises, she said.
She said because she understood the search warrant to include LaFuria's vehicle, when it wasn't at his practice, deputies went to his house to find his truck.
"When I did it, I intended it for the vehicle he drove," Bailey said.
When Bailey and her fellow officers arrived at the house, LaFuria's truck was in the driveway and his wife was standing outside talking on the telephone, she said.
His wife told him to come outside and Bailey told him that his truck was included in the search warrant, she said.
LaFuria told her the truck was unlocked, Bailey said.
She said the doctor asked her what she was searching for and she told him the camera. She said he told her he had thrown it away in a Dumpster at the hospital.
She said she was on one side of the truck, searching it, while he stood on the other. She said she found a gym bag with two cameras and spindles of CDs.
She said LaFuria told her, "That's it. That is the camera. I'm so stupid."
He reached across the truck and tried to take the bag from her twice while saying again, "I'm so stupid," she testified.
Detectives found one disc contained pictures of clothed black women who were pregnant and another disc had pictures of females' genitals taken in the examination rooms at LaFuria's practice, Bailey said.
She said she returned to Bryant, who then granted her a search warrant for the house, where two computer towers were found on a table near the boathouse.
Bailey said detectives then got another search warrant, this time from Judge Mike Canaday, to obtain patient records.
Because of issues that have arisen with the evidence, the prosecution severed the charges in August and is trying to proceed with the sexual battery and molestation charges.
Vamvoras argued for the motion to quash all charges, saying that he filed only one continuance and it was the prosecution's fault that the case has taken five years and still hasn't gone to trial. He said the only motions filed by the defense were what "any good lawyer" would do for a client. He said prosecutors did not get the photos and information about the photos to him by dates mandated by the court.
"We have had delays in the case, not by filing of motions, but by the state's failures to respond to court orders," Vamvoras said.
Prosecutor Hugo Holland's rebuttal was short, saying the motion to suppress had to be completed before the prosecution was forced to proceed. "That's the bottom line and that's our argument," he said.
Judge David Ritchie said that he did not believe prosecutors acted "in bad faith." He referred to the magnitude of the case, the number of alleged victims, the number of photos and the technical aspects of the case in denying the motion.
"I recognize that things haven't moved along as quickly as they should have," Ritchie said. "But there are a lot of complicated issues and a large volume of information."


text:
In every way, this book is a fresh and daring perspective on the natural world and those that live in it. By removing colour from the visual element, the viewer is encouraged to interact directly with each image on a subjective level and to take from it a uniquely personal experience. The text is in caption format, and helps create a multilayered work that hints at both poetry and philosophy. Through Van den Berg's carefully distilled thoughts, readers are enticed to think beyond the obvious and explore a wide canvas of ideas epitomised in nature. "Shades Of Nature" dismisses all preconceptions of what classic wildlife photography should be, and how it should be presented to the world. It effortlessly defies the norm, to demonstrate that mood and movement, energy and emotion, are the true essences of this craft. Depth of experience rests on art, not colour.
"synopsis" may belong to another edition of this title.
Heinrich van den Berg and Philip and Ingrid van den Berg are considered among the best wildlife photographers in South Africa. Together they have won numerous international and national awards and have been published widely, by among others National Geographic, BBC Wildlife, GEO and the New York Times.
"About this title" may belong to another edition of this title.
Within U.S.A.
Book Description HPH Publishing, 2011. Hardcover. Book Condition: New. Bookseller Inventory # P110620463104
More Information About This Seller | Ask Bookseller a Question


text:
Courting the Board of Education Downtown
"There's something appealing about being in a downtown, where there is energy and commerce and excitement," says Justin Hartings, Washington County Board of Education.
The Board made it clear inside their current facility that they're still looking at all their options in the county.
"The facility is going to have to accommodate more than just the staff and the Board of Education," says Paul Bailey, Washington County Board of Education. "It's going to have to be serviceable to the public, also."
The Board of Education's concerns include costs, the safety of the downtown area and parking their more than 200 employees. They also won't be rebuilding at their current location on Commonwealth Avenue.
City Officials say they'll take care of the parking by building a deck where employees can park for free.
"Every part of me believes that a Board of Education in downtown amongst the other governmental facilities is simply a logical choice you know for the community," says Kristin Aleshire, Hagerstown City Council.
A downtown central office would be near city and county offices, the new library, the School for the Arts and the university.
The Greater Hagerstown Committee presented four viable downtown sites. Councilman Aleshire favors West Washington St. or the Antietam and Potomac St. site.
"We're certainly going to listen to the representatives of the Board of Education and try to do the right thing for all of education in Washington County," says Terry Baker, Washington County Commissioner.
City officials even asked County Commissioners for their assistance, but it'll be up to the Board to determine where they go from here.
The Board of Education says they're going to figure out the costs of all their options and compare them with one another.


text:
Anyone know of a semi-auto handgun that has the following characteristics?
-.45 Cal.
-10 round magazine
Printable View
Anyone know of a semi-auto handgun that has the following characteristics?
-.45 Cal.
-10 round magazine
HK USP Compact comes dang close with the 8rd mag.
Close but no cigar :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by jwkimber45
I think I saw your question on another forum about this - the HK USPc is what I said too- 1 rd short w/ a rd in the chamber.
Get a compact 1911 and buy a 10 round mag. Only other option. Then it won't be "compact" :)
Para Carry 12, no SA but the 2 LDA triggers I have felt were really sweet.
LOL!!! I know, I know, close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades...... :-DQuote:
Originally Posted by rgs1975
I'll make you one but it will cost you a 100K :lol:
You kind of put yourself in a hole with the compact + 10 rd. magazine. If you wanted to go 1911ish the Para Ordance p12 but of course that is SA. If you are willing to drop a little in capacity EAA witness compact.Quote:
Originally Posted by rgs1975
The SIG P220 carry should meet the requirements. Judging by how it is called a carry I'm going to assume it's compact. If it can use standard P220 mags, then it has 10x .45 ACP. It also has the required DA/SA action.
My new carry gun is pretty close, the Taurus PT 145 Millenium Pro. The only thing it's missing is the SA.
jericho 941....comes in 9mm 40 and 45....buuuuuya...in the compact version too i believe..let me research that a bit and ill let ya know


text:
I have some very strange criteria in shopping for a car due my sport.I must be able to carry an object 70" long x 1' x 1'.This means either a wagon or a folding rear seat.other than that, I am looking for a used car in the $15- $20 range, sporting in nature but still slightly upscale.What would you look at? I've already sworn off Saab after my last experiance.
Subaru WRX sportwagon would fill the bill.
Another vote for the WRX Wagon!
The WRX is a good choice, but I would upgrade to the Legacy. Larger, more comfortable, and the GT is plenty fun and very fast.
Yeah i vote for the WRX wagon ^^


text:
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text:
|GTA V Latest News | #GTAV | #GTAOnline
2007 The Trailer Will Not Disappoint
Grand Theft Auto IV - General News | @ 09:29 PM MDT | By Kodo
Gamesradar has an article with seven suggestions to how "things will be different" including destructible buildings, environmental weaponry, customizable characters, online play, and more. Perhaps a more noticeable paragraph was where they stated that Rockstar's IV trailer will not be just a quick glimpse, but a fairly indepth preview of what the game will offer.
The official trailer for Grand Theft Auto IV is only a few days away as of this writing, and publisher Rockstar has promised that it won't just be some infuriatingly quick teaser. Instead, it'll offer up the first substantial look into what the game is all about, and internet speculation over what that might be has kicked the rumor mill into high gear.
Just remember to check back here on Thursday night when the trailer is released. That's March 29th, 2007, 6PM EST. The official site is likely to be slow or down, as it usually is during a time like this, so we will do our best to have a copy of the trailer on our servers. In addition, we will have screencaps and a summary available as soon as possible. Don't miss it!
Source: Gamesradar, GTA4.net
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text:
Town Square
Gun buyback in San Mateo
Original post made on Jan 25, 2013
Read the full story here Web Link posted Thursday, January 24, 2013, 8:48 AM
Comments (14)
a resident of Menlo Park: Downtown
on Jan 25, 2013 at 4:21 pm
I would LOVE just ONCE to see one of these anti-gun initiatives take guns out of the criminals hands, instead of the law abiding citizens hands.
I wont give up my guns until the criminals do...and that includes the government!
a resident of Menlo Park: Downtown
on Jan 25, 2013 at 4:25 pm
"I wont give up my guns until the criminals do...and that includes the government!"
This is what makes normal folk want background checks on all gun transfers. And mental health checks, also.
a resident of Menlo Park: other
on Jan 25, 2013 at 5:07 pm
some guy is right about at least one thing, these buy backs don't take guns out of the hands of criminals. Do you HONESTLY believe your local gang banger is going down to drop off one of his unused guns? Next life! The only thing these idiotic buy backs do is remove guns from law abiding citizens as they're the only ones that will turn in guns. Oh, they also make a bunch of people think that something is being done about gun violence. Clue: They're not. Duh!
a resident of Portola Valley: Westridge
on Jan 26, 2013 at 1:36 pm
Sheriff Greg Munks, Supervisor Adrienne Tissier and Congresswoman Jackie Speier are just plain nuts. I'll pay $110.00 for semi automatic handguns and 225.00 for AR-15 and AK-47's. Can you not see just how ludicrous these nitwits are. Anyone that would give up their assets for any less than the market value are more than likely Liberals. I don't expect to be buying any of these guns anytime soon. If anyone was to take me up on my offer I might laugh myself to death.
a resident of Menlo Park: Downtown
on Jan 26, 2013 at 3:23 pm
Menlo Voter: I don't disagree with your first sentence. Y'all act like someone claims this is some sort of cure-all or panacea. Maybe I missed that memo. Let me know where it is, please.
What I don't understand is the thinly veiled hatred shown by three posters above. Are you OPPOSED to gun buybacks? Do they HARM you? Why are you so ANGRY? What do you have against the police and sheriff departments?
I'll stick with my original statement: "I wont give up my guns until the criminals do...and that includes the government!" This is what makes normal folk want background checks on all gun transfers. And mental health checks, also.
Looks like there are now a couple hundred less unwanted guns floating around. How is that a bad thing?
a resident of Menlo Park: other
on Jan 26, 2013 at 3:30 pm
"Looks like there are now a couple hundred less unwanted guns floating around. How is that a bad thing?"
First they weren't "floating around." They were owned by what are most likely law abiding citizens. That's a bad thing?
Second, those guns weren't harming anyone and weren't likley to. Now if you could get crimnals and gang bangers to turn in their weapons there might be a point to the whole charade. Because that's what it is, a charade. Gun buy backs don't do squat to eliminate gun crime.
Third, I have nothing against law enforcement. I'm ex-law enforcement. As such, I can speak with some authority when it comes to the value of these programs.
a resident of Menlo Park: Downtown
on Jan 26, 2013 at 3:44 pm
"First they weren't "floating around." They were owned by what are most likely law abiding citizens. That's a bad thing?"
How are unwanted guns, either 'floating around' or sitting in closets, a good thing? They are, by definition, not wanted. I don't want unwanted guns sitting somewhere with a potential to not be safe. You do, I guess.
Didn't know you were ex. Hola. That makes your attack on buybacks even more perplexing. I expect that from a whack like "Some Guy: ...and that includes the government!"
That was, at one time, you and me, brother.
But keep changing the subject to "Now if you could get crimnals..."
a resident of Menlo Park: other
on Jan 26, 2013 at 4:49 pm
I wasn't changing the subject I was, in fact, addressing the point. Gun buy backs do nothing to stop gun crime because they do nothing to remove guns from criminal hands.
a resident of Menlo Park: Downtown
on Jan 26, 2013 at 6:17 pm
"Gun buy backs do nothing to stop gun crime"
Didn't see that claim in the article. Didn't make it myself.
Did see:
- provided a convenient opportunity for gun owners to get rid of weapons they no longer want.
- "Fewer guns also mean fewer accidents and fewer chances for guns to fall into the wrong hands,"
- "We feel this will improve public safety in our county,"
All yours, I'm done.
a resident of another community
on Jan 26, 2013 at 8:21 pm
A good way to get rid of guns that are not good for legitimate use as sporting or defensive weapons... i turned in a wingmaster 870, a single shot 12 gauge stevens and a 22 black powder rifle.. I am not giving up my right to own firearms but rather want to take out of use those firearms that may be misused and which I have no use for.... I do appreciate and enjoy firearms but feel a responsibility to prevent any bad guy (or gal) from getting possession of them..This was an incentive to dispose of them...No more duck hunting for me,, so, now looking for a nice 22 pistol...Just another fun thing to do... some play golf, some play banjo and some punch paper...If all violent and mass killings, wars etc could be prevent by disarming the world then I would back it... Until then,,,I'm keeping mine... Just sayin
a resident of Menlo Park: other
on Jan 26, 2013 at 8:54 pm
C'mon Sanity you now the REAL reasons for these buy backs. It's supposedly to do something to prevent gun crimes. We both know it does nothing to accomplish that goal.
gd: I might have taken that wingmaster off your hands as would a bunch of other law abiding citizens. No reason to get pennies on the dollar and have a perfectly good gun detroyed that could be used by a law abiding citizen. Black powder? You honestly think getting rid of a black powder gun is going to prevent a single gun crime or death? Really? Criminals aren't using black powder weapons.
a resident of Menlo Park: Downtown
on Jan 27, 2013 at 11:06 am
"collected more than 680 firearms, including 24 assault weapons, 338 hand guns and 371 long guns"
Poor MV, must be apoplectic that so many were turned in.
Great job by the cops, sheriffs and politicos.
Bad day for those that write crap like "...and that includes the government!"
a resident of Menlo Park: other
on Jan 27, 2013 at 12:35 pm
I'm not apoplectic at all. I simply know what was done did NOTHING to prevent gun crimes. Made a bunch of people that don't know any better feel good, but did nothing to prevent crimnals from using guns.
a resident of another community
on Jan 27, 2013 at 12:37 pm
We don't actually know their impact on crime reduction, do we? It's not as if the guns are being taken away - people voluntarily turn them in. It's a great idea, reducing potential guns stolen in home burglaries & reducing potential deadly accidents.
I've several responsible gun-owning friends who've been impressed w/local buy backs because they've been able to dump old weapons, make a little $$ & still be responsible gun owners who aren't giving up their rights. For them, it's a win-win.
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