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Five steps to an effective installation
Five steps to an effective installation. State energy codes in the United States, which must be at least as stringent as the ASHRAE/IES 90.1-1999 standard, require automatic shutoff of lighting in commercial buildings greater than 5,000 square feet in size, with few exceptions. Scheduling devices, such as intelligent control panels or occupancy sensors, can accomplish this task. According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, energy


text:
Bagana Horse Club
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A quiet day today; sleep in and then out on the seas so set both my smart devices, woke with the alarm at 0800 hrs, had a chat to Kate then decided shower time. My watch said 0930. We needed to be on the coach at ten. I phoned reception and they confirmed yes it was indeed 9:30. So it was a very swift shower dress pack and out the door. I even had 5 minutes for a quick breakfast from the most elaborate buffet yet. Onwards to ...
Departure Antalya - Istanbul - Montreal
Got up at 6:00 and headed for a quick breakfast of coffee and half a bagel with cheese. That should hold me over till breakfast on the plane which departs at 8:55 am. We arrived in Istanbul at 9:45 with 20 minutes to spare. Headed for the International departures and CIP Lounge (Business class) which ...
Pool Day
Following a wonderful supper at Talya Balik for a sun set meal with Turkish wine. Francois was feeling a little groggy so we decided to skip playing tennis and decided to relax in the lobby while we digested our late breakfast. We also did not want to drive to the beach which was a nice offer from Pierre, who was also feeling ill with a bad cold. In turkey we do not say SICK as it is a very bad word in Turkish. At around 11:00 we decided to head for the pool and found a nice ...
Taking it Easy
Slept in while Francois went to work. Went for breakfast around 8:15 and did some reading. I came back to the room, put on my bathing suit, got my post cards and other things and headed for the pool side. Francois came to meet me around 2:00 PM since the job site has been closed for the time being. Spent a few more hours relaxing by the pool together then went to buy some ...
Old Town
Today we had an early breakfast and met Pierre who was almost finished his. Talked a little and then headed to the old town on foot. It was a lovely walkway all the way to the old city and was pretty much ocean side the whole distance. We did close to 10-12 km of walking with the quaint winding streets of local vendors. We saw a few tourist attractions, mosques, minarets, and Hadrian's gate which dates back to Roman times. It was built in ...
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subset: commoncrawl


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I am glad you found out something.The news station never called or emiled me back,i tried 3 times.We need all the help we can on shb.Seems to be more this year and if a hive is a little weak its over.copper287
I am glad you found out something.The news station never called or emiled me back,i tried 3 times.We need all the help we can on shb.Seems to be more this year and if a hive is a little weak its over.copper287
I added the following mixture to a nuc that has around 5-10 SHB last night.
1 oz 3% Hydrogen Peroxide: 1 gallon of 1:1 sugar syrup
I will drop in and visit how they are doing on Sunday and post the results.
Her testing begs the question of sampling - would be interested to know. H202 is also toxic to bees, but so far the levels I'm feeding (1 oz 3% per quart) has not had any adverse effect on the bees themselves, other than they are sucking down feed as fast as I can put it on and I have not noticed any beetles since starting.
The underlying question remains if bees naturally produce more H202 as a defense against the SHB, or do SHB contribute themselves to H202 levels or is it totally dependant upon other factors, such as bloom, temperature, humidity.....
Altho H202 breaks down into water and oxygen, if I was in this to sell honey, I would be concerned about tainting. I'm going to keep it up on my first year hive thru spring feeding of '10 and see how they cope next beetle season.
I tend to agree that hive strength and maintenance is the best defense. I loved my top-hive entrance gizmo and I think the bees did too - being able to access all those undrawn frames without having to walk up all those crowded stairs - but so did the SHB.
The concentrated form either/or in liquid (35%) or powder might be a good ground treatment for pupae/larvae of a number of pests.
EAS Georgia Certified. "Tradition - Even if you have done it the same way for years doesn't mean that it is not stupid."
keep your hives strong as you can will help. great to see someone doing research on these guys keep up the good work....David
To update you on my project of feeding peroxide to control beetles, I opened my hive that I had treated and found several live adult beetles on top of the inner cover. It don't look like the peroxide treatment is working at this point of testing. I will update you if the issue changes.
Same here. No change for the better yet with H2O2.
Altho I haven't noticed any adverse situation with the bees, I have a gut feeling that H202 has little or no effect controlling SHB. The bees seem to take the feed fine, but sugar-water honey that foams in the mouth might not be the Macafe' of the next macdonald's marketing plan.
They are obviously attracted to the smell of honey and as we build up relatively unprotected stores above, they have free rein to establish themselves. Adding a new 9 or 10 frame honey super with top ventilation or entrance is not what we want to do.
A tight colony environment with lots of protection is, in a number of beeks opinion, the best defense. I have a vent box above my feeder that surpasses just proping the inner cover or telescoping outer up in that it doesn't allow any access to the unprotected hive below.
I had designed this as also a top entrance, but found many SHB running around inside, I closed the entrance and sealed the bottom and have only seen 1 since, and that is with the standard inner & telescoping cover over it.
The bees are crammed up feeding inside the screen of my box-top feeder, so I don't know if their near-presence abaits the beetles above, just reporting what I observe.
EAS Georgia Certified. "Tradition - Even if you have done it the same way for years doesn't mean that it is not stupid."
Hi Guys,
Just thought I'd put my 2 cents in. When I first set up my hives and had our local inspector to see them, he immediately recommended that I remove the inner covers. His opinion was that they were just one more spot for the SHB to hide, which does make sense to me. So, I have no inner covers and have had not problems with my telescoping lids being difficult to open. Not that this is stopping the darn beetles from invading, it just gives them fewer hiding places.
"Life is like riding a bike. It is impossible to maintain your balance while standing still."...Linda Brakeall
I really hate these beetles.
Lydia McCormick just sent me an abstract of her research for posting here.
Honeybees are the planets number one pollinator and, therefore, essential for our agricultural economy because plants depend on them for reproduction. Unfortunately, many health disorders can plague and devastate bee colonies. In the past five years, the small hive beetle (SHB) (Aethina tumida) has become a widespread problem, particularly in the Southeast. In Alabama, this menacing insect is now one of the most common invaders of bee colonies. While beekeepers have used a variety of non-toxic traps or chemical treatments to control SHB, it is also likely that honeybees have natural stress defenses. One possible chemical defense is hydrogen peroxide, produced by glucose oxidase, an enzyme secreted by bees into their honey. Previous observations (The Effect of Honeybee Pathogens on H202 Content and Glucose Oxidase Activity in Honey. Science Fair 2008) revealed that honey hydrogen peroxide concentrations were highest in beehives that had small hive beetle (SHB).
The hypothesis that higher hydrogen peroxide concentrations in honey may decrease SHB survival was tested. Groups of 3-5 SHB were incubated at room temperature in containers with cut comb, pollen, and experimental honey for up to 3 months. Nine different experimental H202 concentrations (ranging from 0 mg/ ml to 6000mg/ ml) were added to two different types of honey, natural (raw) versus store-bought. Furthermore, two specific controls were included: 1) a positive control in which the honey was heated to denature protein (enzymes) prior to adding 1600 mg/ ml H202, and 2) a negative control in which honey was pre-incubated with excess catalase to remove native H2O2. Results showed decreased SHB survival after 14 days at concentrations above 1600 mg/ ml H202. By 22-28 days, reduced survival was apparent at 400-800 mg/ ml. At 98 days, all groups showed beetle death, with concentrations above 100 mg/ ml being severely affected. Furthermore, qualitatively, at the lowest concentrations (between 0mg/ ml and 100 mg/ml) beetles showed the most feeding activity as evidenced by feces and chewed combs bits. There was no difference in survival regarding the two honey types. In conclusion, these results suggest that honey H202 may be a natural long-term defense against SHB.
Lydia McCormick - Jefferson County International Bacc.
I 'm not judgmental...... I 'm just unselfish with my knowledge that what you're doing is wrong.
Have not treated any bee hives for shb.I am finding them in some hives really bad,but the bees are keeping them in check.They are 2 hive that seem weird.NO shb can be found in them and the other hives have up to 20 that i can see and try to kill.They are in the woods to with the rest of the hives,but something has to be different.I just can't put my finger on it. copper287
Any update on this possible solution to ridding a hive of SHB ?


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I thought we were in a dearth. When I left on vacation a week ago the bees where just hanging out not doing much. Came back a week later and they had almost completely filled a second super. Looks like they are just hanging out again. The 24 hr mite count was higher..(12) vs a previous high of 3 mites. I usually only count after fogging with fmgo and thymol. I am wondering if they robbed out a weaker hive somewhere or if they just found a great nectar source while I was gone.
Might have to go on vacation more often if that is how they act while I'm gone!
Does it sound like robbing? And is 12 mites on my sticky board high for this time of year? I fog once a week religiously.
[This message has been edited by dtwilliamson (edited August 05, 2004).]
[This message has been edited by dtwilliamson (edited August 05, 2004).]


text: I currently have two hives on concrete blocks and will be adding 3 or 4 more over the winter for next year. I would like to build some sort of wood platform for them to sit on, where could I go to get some ideas? I suppose some 4x4 posts driven into the ground with 2x8's running length ways would work. Thanks for any ideas


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Someone of considerable self-worth that is only important in their own insignificant world. Suffering from severe delusions of grandeur, they think the world will end abruptly when they cease to exist.
King Joe: "I am such a professional, this organization should be really honored to be benfitting from my knowledge and expertise."
Observer: "what a king joe"
Observer: "what a king joe"
by John Wesley February 12, 2008


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Ninety-one Pulaski Technical College students were inducted into the Beta Zeta Omega Chapter of Phi Theta Kappa on May 3.
More than 100 friends and relatives of inductees attended the ceremony held in the U.S. Bank Community Room in the Information Technology Center on Pulaski Tech's main campus in North Little Rock.
Lennon Parker, Pulaski Tech's Web communication specialist, received an honorary membership for his distinguished service to the society. Connie Halter, a student, was recognized for receiving the New Century Scholar Award for the state of Arkansas.
Membership in Phi Theta Kappa, the international honor society for two-year colleges, is by invitation only. Each fall and spring, students who have a cumulative grade-point average of at least 3.5 and have taken 18 credit hours (non-developmental) toward an associate degree receive a letter of invitation.
Pulaski Technical College


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To the Editors:
I enjoyed William and Merri Sue Carter's column "The British Longitude Act Reconsidered" (March–April). During the 1700s, many timekeeping methods were submitted to the Board of Longitude before John Harrison designed his successful chronometer. As the Carters describe, Captain James Cook appreciated a copy of Harrison's clock, made by Larcum Kendall and dubbed K1, "as our never failing guide" during his second voyage of exploration.
The Longitude Act was not solely responsible for such advances. The transits of Venus across the Sun in 1761 and 1769 also stimulated progress in astronomical observation and timekeeping. Eighteenth-century astronomers saw the opportunity to calculate the distance between the Earth and Sun by timing the transits of Venus, observed from different locations on Earth. The imprecise results of 1761 encouraged the British Royal Society, with financial backing from the Admiralty and Royalty, to send out teams to try again in 1769. This sensitive, international scientific project required high-precision telescopes, timekeepers and pendulum clocks—which, together with Newtonian mathematics, meant better measurement results.
Incidentally, while Cook was sailing into the Pacific in 1768, a two-man team was sent to observe the transit from Prince of Wales Fort, a fur-trading post on Canada's Hudson Bay. The senior astronomer of that team, William Wales, kept such meticulous meteorological records that he was later appointed as the astronomer and keeper of the K1 clock on Cook's second voyage.
In June 2012, Venus will transit again, for the second time this century, not to return until December 2117.
Rita Griffin-Short
Hamilton, Canada
Drs. Carter and Carter respond:
Rita Griffin-Short is correct in pointing out that expeditions to observe the transit of Venus contributed to determining time at remote locations around the globe. Edmond Halley's 1716 call for the international astronomical community to determine the distance from the Earth to the Sun resulted in major efforts to collect data on the transit of Venus. Unfortunately, visually observing the times that Venus and the Sun appeared to make contact turned out to be more difficult than Halley ever imagined. In 1769 Captain James Cook not only built an observatory at Point Venus, Tahiti, but also sent observing parties to nearby York Island and the islet of Puaru. Cook was disappointed in the results, reporting that:
We saw an atmosphere or dusky cloud round the body of the planet, which very much disturbed the times of contact, especially of the internal ones; and we differed from each other in our accounts of the times of the contacts much more than might have been expected.
By the time of the next pair of transits, in 1874 and 1882, the Canadian-born American astronomer Simon Newcomb developed a much-improved photographic approach for recording the times of contacts. But Newcomb and Albert Michelson then proceeded to accurately measure the velocity of light, and Newcomb combined this information with the latest value for the aberration of light, to determine the velocity and distance from Earth to the Sun far more accurately than could be derived from observations of the transit of Venus.
You can find this online at http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/num2/venuss-clockwork-contribution-/1
© 2016 Sigma Xi, The Scientific Research Society


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Frankfurt- Bornheim charming apartment in an old Building
Size16 m²
Floor No.1
- Internet/WiFi
- Kitchen
- Washer/dryer
- Smoking allowed
- Towels
- Lockable room
Accommodation summary
|Löwengasse, 60385 Frankfurt am Main, Germany
|Property type
|Private room
|Property ID
|Acceptance rate
|Response time
|A few hours
|Calendar updated
|2 weeks ago
Enjoy the Bergerstaße with all its possibilities. Supermarkets, health food stores, farmer's market, the typical apple wine bars and numerous pubs and restaurants.
Smoking is not allowed in the guest rooms, but you can indulge in the pleasure in the kitchen :-)
If you arrive after 13:00 clock (1:00 PM) please queries whether it is possible before. Thank you.
Metro 3min from the apartment.
Approximate distances by subway
5 min downtown
10 min Station
30 min Airport
15 min fair
House rules- copy ID- Card/ Driving Licence or passport
- The use of the Internet is permitted only for legal and free pages. (In case of violation, we ask ourselves from liability claims)
|Check-in after
|On arrangement
|Check-in before
|On arrangement
|Check-out before
|On arrangement
|Cancellation Policy
Reviews of this property
What're you waiting for? it's very nice place and easy to connect the public transportation. Additional there are more restaurants and supermarket.
Thanks guys fpr everything!! We spent a wonderful stay. Thanks for the tips you have a lovely home!!
It's our second stay at Thilo's, and we're really pleased. The host is helpful, flat as described and as shown on pictures (it's really charming), perfectly situated if you want to get to Frankfurt Messe (U4, 13 min ride) or Hauptbanhof. Recommended!
Thilo and his wife were very kind with us.
The room was clean and tidy (with welcome cookies :) and we had a nice stay ( in spite of the bad weather)
The only bad point was a little smoke smell in the room.
Uncomplicated - flexible - hopefully soon again ;-)
Unkompliziert - flexibel - hoffentlich bald mal wieder ;-)
- Quality assured accommodation
- Every host is verified by telephone
- Secure payment via SSL encryption


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OPGI Price: $169.99
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Occupy Wall Street West #J20 Day of Action
Posted by Kylie Nealis in Global Exchange News & Events, Stop Funding War, World News & Events on 20th January, 2012 | No Comments
Hundreds of people have gathered in downtown San Francisco's Financial District today despite the wind and rain to take part in a day of mass action against corporations, banks, and the courts. While people from many different walks of life are joining the actions today, there are a few consistent messages which are being voiced: corporations are not people, money is not speech, and people should come before profit.
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Discussion in 'Chevy Traverse Forum (GMC Acadia, Buick Enclave)' started by ChevyFan, May 31, 2008.
2008 GMC Acadia Photos
I have one of these on rental this week in Salt Lake City. I will get some more pics and post later.
I drove the Acadia through town during most of my trip. The driver seats on this model were manual
operation and comfortable, This is a eight passenger and can hold six passengers without crowding.
I was not impressed with the mileage and used 3.8s of a tank driving 94 miles without stepping on the gas much.
The rear area can be controlled for temperature by the passengers as long as the Aux is turned on next to the A/C controls.
Pardon my pictures and I missed getting more.
Rear Climate Controls
Rear Cargo Area, the rear seat folds down for more space.
2nd row seats slide forward for rear seat access.
Just saw that you posted pics, nice work! I love this vehicle and the wife and I are thinking of buying one.
Separate names with a comma.


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Devastating: Woodward's new book on Bush and Iraq
posted at 1:42 pm on September 29, 2006 by Allahpundit
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There's no other way to describe it. Read the synopses at the Times and, especially, the Daily News. Michael Yon told me a few months ago we're very close to losing the war. It's not hard to see why.
John Cole asks a good question. I'm not sure what my answer would be, frankly.
The News actually has a second article about the book devoted to the "urgent meeting" Tenet and Cofer Black had with Condi Rice in July 2001 about their fears of an impending attack and a request for $500 million to go in and get Bin Laden ASAP. Some of the rhetoric is absurd, particularly coming from "Slam Dunk" George–
Black, looking back at the July 10, 2001, meeting with Rice, concludes, "The only thing we didn't do was pull the trigger to the gun we were holding to her [Rice's] head."…
The book claims that two weeks before the July meeting with Rice, Tenet told Richard Clarke, the National Security Council's counterterrorism director, of his gut feeling about a likely attack.
"It's my sixth sense, but I feel it coming. This is going to be the big one," the book quotes Tenet as telling Clarke.
–but score-settling and face-saving motives aside, there's surely some truth to it.
I'm filled with … what's the word I'm looking for? Ah yes: heart-ache.
Update: Gossipy electioneering from cover to cover, pronounces Moran.
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Breaking on Hot Air
Obama: "Despite our best efforts," Syria turned into a pretty vicious war
Montana special election: Will Gianforte give Democrats a beating?
I'm sure Mr. Woodward is already working on his next book, due to be published in September 2008….
How predictable.
How can anyone trust anything Woodward has to say. I don't care what he has written. We are NOT CLOSE TO LOSING. This type of defeatism gives aid and comfort to the enemy. I don't care if you are p.o.ed at what I am saying. Rumsfeld is doing a good job, the news out of Iraq is not nearly as bad as the LSM makes it out to be and Woodward is a hack who still is out to try to recapture the relevance he had during Watergate. He makes up facts out of whole cloth. Shame on you for giving this liar any credence.
marianpaul on September 29, 2006 at 1:52 PM
We simply cannot afford to lose this war, we need to go forward and do things better,for sure,but the stakes are much too high at this point.
I guess this hurts Bush's chances at getting re-elected in 2008..
Woodward was probably tired of not getting invited to the DC parties so he had to write some Bush hate to set things straight.
madmonaco on September 29, 2006 at 1:54 PM
If I get even one comment in this thread — from someone other than honora or GregH, I mean — that addresses the substance of the allegations, I'll consider it a moral victory.
Bear in mind, there are plenty of other books out there that corroborate the larger points of this one. Cobra II, Assassin's Gate, etc.
Allahpundit on September 29, 2006 at 1:54 PM
I agree with Commisar more than Cole–I'm afraid even given what we had been told or couldn't have been expected to know at the time, we should have known better. It's not just the administration's on-site failings, it's the initial analysis: chop of the wicked head keeping the people down, and the people will pretty much set up their own country. That assumption is what led to this denial Woodward is describing.
p.s. on that: to some extent, I can't help but think Woodward is piling it on, having been stung during the Plame thing for not exposing the bad guys or whatever, being called a Cheney lackey. His earlier books were so much less damning.
But still.
Alex K on September 29, 2006 at 1:56 PM
This "book" coming out less than two months from the election is a shallow attempt by the LSM and its ilk to influence the election and it will fall flat on its face as all these attempts do. How many real people read a Woodward book. A lot less than you think.
marianpaul on September 29, 2006 at 1:56 PM
Hey, it took me a while to write it up, Allah! And I can't get too in to the substance cause it simply sounds pretty right on to me…
Alex K on September 29, 2006 at 1:57 PM
This is all ridiculous… shitty conditions on the ground don't mean "wrong war". One can make an argument about Rummy, but that's another story… the left and the media have been fighting against us in this war from the beginning and you can't argue that they haven't helped and emboldened the enemy.
But here's the point, everyone ESPECIALLY all top Dems (who call Bush a liar) argued that the WMDs were there for over a decade right up to the war. If we hadn't gone, and the stuff got in the hands of terrorists, made it here and killed thousands of people, what would we all say? What would the left and the media say? "IMPEACH BUSH!" I'm not even going to elaborate on WMDs and how I am of the group that believes they were there, and that some still may be. But the point is, if I go to the grocery store because I'm out of food, but get killed in a car accident on the way there, it doesn't mean I shouldn't have gone to the store.
But if we're talking about tactics, then I might agree that we're screwing the whole thing up. There are just too many uncivilized savages over there. I'm not advocating doing this and it no one could or would ever do it, but the only way to not be stuck in this situation and others in the future, would be to build parking lots, not nations. Does anyone think that there was another way to deal with Iraq that wouldn't have turned in to the terrorist magnet it is? I know a liberal would say "wrong war" or "Saddam was contained" to which I say, see above (regarding the over a decade of WMD arguing from top Dems, etc. Couldn't risk it)
But as long as we're playing Mr. Nice guy war, Iraq is what war is going to look like, and why we're seeing renewed problems in Iraq. Shit, we had the opportunity to take out over 100 Taliban the other day but chose not to because they were at a funeral!!! How many innocents and American troops will die as a result of that bitch decision? How many have died as a result of trying to be "sensitive" to Muslim culture and religious practices, etc.?
Everyone can criticize mismanagement all they want, but if they don't have the will to get nasty against these people, then they need to stfu.
RightWinged on September 29, 2006 at 2:12 PM
Ok AP, I'll tackle them by saying that I'm absolutely fed up with the leadership of this country. That's BOTH sides.
However heaping blame upon Clinton and Bush is too easy. The real culprits are the voters that keep putting morons like this into office. We've let our two parties divide us from each other and common sense. We worry so much about who can be blamed for 9-11, Homeland Security, Katrina, Social Security's imminent collapse, illegal immigration, gas prices, health care, etc that our elected officials have all but stopped trying to apply solutions to any of them. What the heck, if you can just blame the people on the other side of the aisle then you don't have to come up with any ideas to solve anything.
Yet, here we are at election time again and most people are going to trot out there to vote for whatever the "lesser evil" is in their eyes. I have news for you folks, "lesser evil" is still evil.
I'm a conservative christian and not a Republican (or Democrat) because the Republicans are neither conservatives nor christians as far as I can tell. Oh sure, they parade certain issues around during election time to make sure christians come out to vote for them but then those issues are shelved until the next election comes along.
Personally I think our country would be best served by voting every incumbent from both parties out of office. I would suggest third parties but our two parties have most people so brainwashed that they really believe voting for a third party is casting a vote for the party they oppose. If we'd simply use the primaries to replace our own party members and the general elections to try and remove the other party's incumbents, we could at least get somewhere close to a fresh start.
This won't happen though. Things will continue as they are and our government will continue to fail at everything it attempts to do while the citizens will put more and more faith behind the government bailing them out when bad things happen.
/end rant
Benaiah on September 29, 2006 at 2:19 PM
Whenever one of these third rate hacks like Woodward, Hersh, et al writes something, then I know the truth is exactly the opposite. I wouldn't believe them if they told me the sky was blue and the earth orbited around the Sun. They say we are losing, then I KNOW we are winning.
marianpaul on September 29, 2006 at 2:19 PM
If people are paying attention, these types of allegations SHOULD actually HELP the GOP. Keep in mind that the Democrats are actually demanding that we return to the same types of policy they claim are responsible for 9/11.
I say, keep these books coming. They only amplify the need for hard core prevention, which we all know Dems want no part of.
While I supported (and still support) the invasion of Iraq and the removal of Saddam Hussein, I always had my reservations about the manner in which the campaign was conducted. This book, even if only half true, seems to confirm those suspicions.
I knew something was wrong when Fallujah was allowed to remain standing after the horrific slaughter of the Blackwater Four.
Uncle Billy, you are sorely missed.
Kid from Brooklyn on September 29, 2006 at 2:21 PM
I don't trust this book one whit.
Whenever one of these third rate hacks like Woodward, Hersh, et al writes something, then I know the truth is exactly the opposite. I wouldn't believe them if they told me the sky was blue and the earth orbited around the Sun. They say we are losing, then I KNOW we are winning.
I am with you on that sentiment. And the terrorists themselves say we are winning. Trying to recruit scientists? And Woodward is saying there is an attack every 15 minutes? Then why aren't our guys dropping like flies? And why are some Iraqis naming their kids "Bush"? And then there are men like Karzai standing with us. How eloquent was HE the other day!
Bite me Woodward.
CrimsonFisted on September 29, 2006 at 2:30 PM
Does most of this come as much of a surprise? Did anybody believe that all was well in the State of Denmark to begin with?
I wouldn't go so far as to call it devastating, but it definitely raises some disturbing questions about the leadership of this country.
Allah, I'm not getting your point? According to Woodward (and you) the worst is probably true, but how is that any different from what we see on the news every day for the past 3 years? If that's the case then the book is worse than meaningless.
Capitalist Infidel on September 29, 2006 at 2:34 PM
tony snow on talking live about this right now
RightWinged on September 29, 2006 at 2:35 PM
It's not just the administration's on-site failings, it's the initial analysis: chop of the wicked head keeping the people down, and the people will pretty much set up their own country. That assumption is what led to this denial Woodward is describing.
While it's been bumpy as hell, isn't that pretty much what's going on?
From the Times:
Like Mr. Woodward's previous works, the book includes lengthy verbatim quotations from conversations and describes what senior officials are thinking at various times, without identifying the sources for the information.
But of course…
Pablo on September 29, 2006 at 2:51 PM
I dont know yet, Allah. My disdain for Woodward thru the years, and now, is extreme. I have to wait to decide. I do not trust that man one bit.
We do not hear the whole of the story, with the libs and the leftist MSM in control of most of the news, so its hard to figure out what's REALLY going on. Look at the Kurds right now, it could not be better in Northern Iraq.
I think Bush and his team underestimated the hate and BS from his own countrymen, if you can call them that. From Woodward to Michael Moore, I would not have believed it would EVER be this bad. Never would I have guessed that the level of hate for our President surpassed that of our enemies who kill us DAILY!!! Who kill over cartoons.
We took God out of the classrooms and look what's happening. Same people that wanted that are the people who say we're losing the war. We do not get the truth from the war from our MSM, so give me time before I commit to "We're losing".
Well they are right on one thing, we are losing. We're losing our kids, and their future. Maybe deepthroat-woodward might take a stab at something more respectable for a change and do something POSITIVE for our country.
If we lose in Iraq, put your heads between your knees….
Funny, I seem to remember hearing just last week that the jihadis were complaining about getting their asses kicked all over Iraq. They're being drawn in and killed there instead of coming here to kill US. It's working. Yes it may create more terrorists in the short term, but liberation, in the long run, will decrease the number of terrorists.
Either fight 'em over there with the Army and Marines OR fight 'em over HERE with firemen and SWAT teams. There's your two choices. Pick one.
Tony737 on September 29, 2006 at 2:53 PM
Breaking News ….
DNC Chairman Howard Dean Al Qaeda 2nd in command Zaharwiri has just issued a new statement on the internet calling President Bush a "Liar and a Failure".
fogw on September 29, 2006 at 2:58 PM
Funny, I seem to remember hearing just last week that the jihadis were complaining about getting their asses kicked all over Iraq.
Tony737 on September 29, 2006 at 2:53 PM
I think thats exactly why Woodward released the book now, instead of mid to late October, before more good news makes his book even more useless.
I read the Daily News report and have no idea what AllahPundit is talking about when he says the report is "devastating." All that is in the report are the same allegations with no proof.
Common Sense: The fact that so many liberals, socialists, commis, and radically devout Muslims do NOT want us in Iraq shows we SHOULD be in Iraq.
What was the American body count three years into World War II? What is the American body count in the War on Terror? And the report is "devastating?" What is AllahPundit on this afternoon?
januarius on September 29, 2006 at 3:21 PM
John Cole asks a good question. I'm not sure what my answer would be, frankly.
I'm sorry. What was the question?
GT on September 29, 2006 at 3:29 PM
The fact is that Bush didn't forsee the insurgency. I think that is pretty undeniable. The White House staff had far too optimistic predictions about how things would go in Iraq. That is nothing new and not surprising, though some on our side still seem to be in denial about it. Remember, this is still the White House that insists Islam is a "religion of peace." Bob Woodward's revelations are probably mostly true, regardless of what I think of Woodward personally.
I was skeptical of the war in Iraq from the beginning. Not because I doubted that Saddam had WMDs (I believed he had them just as everyone else believed) or that Saddam had ties to terrorism (he definitely had ties to Palestinian terrorists), but only because I didn't think Iraq was any more likely to pass WMDs to terrorists than many other regimes in the world, including Iran. Nevertheless, there is little doubt in my mind that Saddam and his sons would eventually have to be dealt with once and for all. We couldn't just keep ineffectual sanctions on him forever and we couldn't let him get back to resuming his schemes against his neighbors.
I thought if we were going to invade anyway, we should have immediately partitioned the country. I don't see Iraq as a viable country without a strongman. I share Robert Spencer's skepticism about the viability of democracy in an Islamic society. The Kurds have always had a strong desire to exit this Yugomesopotamia and I don't see why the Sunnis and Shiites have any great reason to work together. We need to operate with a cold calculus towards the Islamic world. Smaller Muslim nations are better for our national security and our interests than larger ones. They pose less of a threat and if one regime goes particularly bad, we may not lose the whole pie if there are lots of little Muslim nations. If we lose all of Iraq to an Iranian-like regime fostered by the Shia or a resurgent Baathist movement among the Sunnis, then we lose a potential ally in the Kurds along the way. Better we lose only Sunni and Shiite Arabs and keep and strengthen our Kurdish friends. We ought to divide the Muslim world as much as possible.
tommy1 on September 29, 2006 at 3:39 PM
A.P you are too gullible my friend. Woodward is a liar, if the "deep throat" thing didn't show you that, I don't know what will. Remember after the guy said, "Hey, it's me, I'm Deep Throat", Woody kept denying it? Well he had a book to pimp and a premature revelation would be just the thing to stifle sales! Allow me to present exhibit A.
Like Mr. Woodward's previous works, the book includes lengthy verbatim quotations from conversations and describes what senior officials are thinking at various times, without identifying the sources for the information.
The only kind of writing which goes into what people are "thinking at various times", is fiction. How is a "VERBATIM QUOTATION" possible of an event that was not recorded? At best, wouldn't it be a "recollection" of a conversaton? Even if the subject believed that he was recounting events that he personally witnessed, how COULD THE WRITER DESCRIBE THE ACCOUNT AS "VERBATIM"? This presupposes, intentionally in my view, that the subjects account is correct and the use of the word "verbatim", psychologically vouches for the accuracy of the recollection without ANY proof!
Woodward is a liar.
In the chest of a liberal flutters the faint heart of a coward….
Soothsayer on September 29, 2006 at 3:48 PM
Good thing Tony Snow is workin for the White House right now… he pretty much laid to rest most of the allegations made in this book…
Romeo13 on September 29, 2006 at 3:48 PM
So the New York Times and a Washington Post reporter don't like President Bush.
Who knew?
doingwhatican on September 29, 2006 at 3:48 PM
Devastating? Please. Quit pissing your panties over what Bob Woodward wrote. This is the same guy who manufactured a confession from Bill Casey out of whole cloth.
Without a doubt there are numerous problems with our war in Iraq and those of us posting here have made numerous comments to that effect. I think the biggest probem is that we went in with the wrong (regardless of the good intentions behind them) set of priorities by emphasizing the minimization of civilian casualties of unequivicol victory. We should have known that the Sunnis, the formerly favored sect in Iraq, would give us the most trouble, and we should have dealt with them extremely harshly, and we should have also imposed martial law in at least the Sunni areas. We should have also known that the Shiites support of our efforts would be tepid, at best – particularly in light of our abandoning of them after the first Gulf War. We should have, without any hesitation, flattend Fallujah in the same manner we did with other cities in WWII the instant they pulled their little uprising. We should have killed that fat little f— al Sadr a long time ago, even if it meant dropping a bomb into the middle of a mosque, since his militia has used them for military purposed time and time again. In short, we should have done more to make them fear us, for it's the lack of fear that has emboldened the insurgents and made others in Iraq waver on supporting us.
And yet, had we done all of those things, does anyone here have any illusions as to whether or not there would still be problems? That there would still be those carping from the sidelines? Does anyone doubt that Bob Woodward would be releasing a book full of juicy, insider tidbits? To quote Wayne Campbell, "Yeah, and monkeys might fly out of my butt!"
As far as the repeated claim that we never found any WMD's why does this continue to get ignored? Does it not count for some strange reason?
A few weeks ago, Stratfor sent out one of its free emails (its Geopolitical Intelligence Report) in which George Friedman surmised that we had made a lot of progress in the War in general and had accomplished many objectives in Iraq, including forcing the cooperation of Saudi Arabia and other countries in helping us track down many high value terrorist targets. Does Woodward mention any of that? I seriously doubt it. But between him and Woodward, I know who's opinion I will trust more.
If something like this devastates you, then be thankful you weren't part of the WWII generation, because you would have never been able to make it through.
thirteen28 on September 29, 2006 at 3:52 PM
I can just imagine what it would be like if Saddam were still in power, racing Iran to get a nuke. I can't understand people who think removing Saddam was a mistake. By all historical standards, this has been the most successful war in history. I'm disappointed that so many on our side think this thing is going so badly. I expect it from the Dems…
canvas on September 29, 2006 at 3:53 PM
Woodward's previous books on the admin have been pretty pro administration and he is a very credible reporter. That said, the question remains, now what?
Were I Bush, I would get rid of Rumsfeld if for no other reason than he appears to have serious problems playing well with others. (One thing that puzzles me is that the admin tries to position itself as being run on a business model, with former successful CEOs. Well Bush was certainly not and Cheney was lukewarm at best, but Rumsfeld was a remarkably successful, even brilliant businessman. Where did those skills go?) Politically would it be best for Bush et al to do so now or later? Someone smarter than me can answer that.
I guess I will read this book. You want to know but you don't want to know. I have pretty much lost my taste for arguing about this. Heartache is pretty much on target.
honora on September 29, 2006 at 4:11 PM
I knew something was wrong when Fallujah was allowed to remain standing after the horrific slaughter of the Blackwater Four.
Kid from Brooklyn on September 29, 2006 at 2:21 PM
As usual the Kid is right.
I supported the Iraq war, I still support it but I dont think..I KNOW we have made some real boneheaded decisions. I dont know who, what, why or when but they are obvious.
Reading Michael Yon lately has only added to my unease.
We MUST begin NOW to do better. Period. Or we are lost.
labwrs on September 29, 2006 at 4:27 PM
I agree with you, Honora. Rumsfeld ought to get the boot. They should have dumped him a long time ago.
It isn't hard to understand how somebody can be remarkably successful in business but not in war. Success simply doesn't translate very well across fields. Rumsfeld isn't a military commander. He is not an expert on war.
tommy1 on September 29, 2006 at 4:30 PM
Yeah, Rummy sure was wrong on that little tank thing years ago….what was that? The M1A1 Abrams Tank that everyone said would never be used. "Tanks had seen their last days" they said. When you say he needs fired, prove it. He does have a few decades experience.
Oh yes, tanks! For the Americans, the Abrams, and for the Israelis, the Merkava. Yes, these tanks with all that reactive armor that were supposed to be practically invicible in the face of anything short of a massive explosion? The ones that have fallen prey readily to shaped charges?
We need an entirely new generation of armor for tanks. The current generation of armor has been dramatically overhyped by contractors and their buddies in the Pentagon.
More science and proven results and less hype on the armor front, please.
tommy1 on September 29, 2006 at 4:42 PM
If there is any reason I think Rumsfeld should get canned, it can be summed up nicely by saying "The Camp Pendleton 8".
These guys have been held in solitary for months and were in shackles for a while as well (oh where are you on this issue, Mark J.?) over accusations from an enemy that has an axe to grind. This is the type of thing that undermines morale of our military and reduces their effectiveness to fight such that all the ground troops in the world wouldn't be able to overcome it. And Rumsfeld has the power to lean on the military brass and to put a stop to this sh-t right now and to make sure that these guys get a fair trial. He's done none of that.
However, if there is one grain of salt those comments should be taken with, it is the fact that perhaps the buck stops at a higher level. Whoever is responsible for the railroading of our troops, they should be ashamed.
thirteen28 on September 29, 2006 at 4:45 PM
Tommy1 says:
It isn't hard to understand how somebody can be remarkably successful in business but not in war.
Honora and Tommy1's comments are so comical because they have no idea what a "successful" war is. Liberals like them NEVER want to go to war, so what is a "successful" war to them? What would a "successful" war in Iraq have been?
We are fighting a worldwide war right now on terror against a foe that had the capability (thanks to Democrats) of killing 3000 Americans on home soil. Yet three years into the war, we have lost about 3000 troops.
Liberals: Since you have no idea what a "successful" war is because you are against ALL wars, here is some perspective: 3500 men died in one day just storming the island of Saipan in WWII. This was considered a success. So how is Iraq a failure?
This is why our country has little hope if ruled by liberals.
januarius on September 29, 2006 at 4:48 PM
BAH! Utter nonsense. We won the WAR (the Iraq part) in less than a week.
What we are losing is the peace… Because the Sunnis hate the Shiites and both hate the Kurds. We had hoped (erroniously)that since Iraq was sort of non-religious under Saddam, that they might be willing to live together under freedom.
Unfortunately, too many of them hate EVERYONE more than they love their children.
The only major mistake that President Bush made is thinking that rationality would conquer hate, given the chance.
LegendHasIt on September 29, 2006 at 4:51 PM
Liberals like them NEVER want to go to war, so what is a "successful" war to them?
World War I–Wilson
World War II–FDR
The devil is in the details I guess.
honora on September 29, 2006 at 4:53 PM
First, I'm not a liberal, so quit with the insults.
Second of all, you would have seen what I would like to have done with Iraq if you had bothered to read my first comment on this thread. I support waterboarding terrorists, I think Bush made a tremendous boo-boo in not killing al-Sadr a few years earlier, and I agree with you that our country has become way to too soft when it comes to waging war. However, talking about getting tougher means very little if we don't know where we are going with that tough approach. "Hearts and minds" is not a concrete military strategy. If you think otherwise, then I suggest you don't know what a successful war is.
You quote one of my comments and then proceed to take issue with me for some entirely unrelated reason. My point about Rumsfeld is true in practically any human field. You can be a great scientist but a lousy businessman. You can be a great businessman, but a terrible politician. I'll offer you the papal apology: sorry if such an observation offends you.
tommy1 on September 29, 2006 at 4:56 PM
If I get even one comment in this thread that addresses the substance of the allegations, I'll consider it a moral victory.
So far I haven't seen any substance, just allegations. Look the fact this is a mess means nothing by itself, if you have no reasonable alternatives to offer or specific criticisms I am frankly unimpressed.
We are trying to do something that has never been done in the history of the world, how do we know this is not about as good as it gets. Some jobs are time consuming and messy, there is no other way to do it, sane people knew going in this was not going to be a quick or easy fix and no one in the administration said otherwise. Now after three years of slow but steady progress we are going to fold the tents because Bob freakin' Woodward has decided Rumsfield isn't nice and doesn't have the absolute, unqualified support of everybody inside the beltway?
When Woodward questions how much easier things would have gone if the Democratic Party hadn't been trying to sabotage the effort to embarass George Bush, I might consider his opinion sincere, until then it is just more political noise.
B Moe on September 29, 2006 at 4:58 PM
First, I'm not a liberal, so quit with the insults.
Second of all, you would have seen what I would like to have done with Iraq if you had bothered to read my first comment on this thread. I support waterboarding terrorists, I think Bush made a tremendous boo-boo in not killing al-Sadr a few years earlier, and I agree with you that our country has become way to too soft when it comes to waging war. However, talking about getting tougher means very little if we don't know where we are going with that tough approach. "Hearts and minds" is not a concrete military strategy. If you think otherwise, then I suggest you don't know what a successful war is.
You quote one of my comments and then proceed to take issue with me for some entirely unrelated reason. My point about Rumsfeld is true in practically any human field. You can be a great scientist but a lousy businessman. You can be a great businessman, but a terrible politician. I'll offer you the papal apology: sorry if such an observation offends you.
tommy1 on September 29, 2006 at 4:56 PM
I think you need both hearts and minds strategy and a smart and tough military strategy. These are not incompatible.
Ideally you want other people to love you, if not that, you want them to fear you. Seems to me we have gotten to the point where we neither.
honora on September 29, 2006 at 4:59 PM
Honora: You still do not comprehend that Wilson, FDR, Truman, and Johnson are not Howard Dean/McGovern-type liberals, the kind that are whining about Iraq right now. The Democrat party is different today in case you haven't noticed.
And you think that WWII was a success (how convenient in hindsight) when single battles lost thousands of American lives–while Iraq in your view is such a failure that Rumsfeld must be fired because we have lost a little over 3000 troops in the War on Terror.
I love it when libs get upset that we took over Iraq with hardly any casualties at all and then whine that we have lost 3000 troops since. I guess a successful war to them would have been thousands of troops dying to take over the country and few troops in guerrila warfare.
But this is all irrelevant because today's liberals would never go to war under any scenerio.
januarius on September 29, 2006 at 5:06 PM
World War I–Wilson
World War II–FDR
The devil is in the details I guess.
I'll give you WWII as a successful war and commend FDR's stewardship thereof … but are you serious about the other three?? If so, you are even farther gone than I already thought.
thirteen28 on September 29, 2006 at 5:10 PM
Tommy1 and Honora sound like the New York Times and MSM after WW2.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
GT on September 29, 2006 at 5:16 PM
But this is all irrelevant because today's liberals would never go to war under any scenerio.
Wrong about one thing there januarius: Many of them WOULD be happy to go to war against Conservatives within their own nation. (It's just that they would have to hire mercenaries to do it; lacking the courage and skills to engage in anything more than a war of words.)
And since they are only willing to spend other people's money to do things, I guess we are fortunate that we don't have to face their hired guns.
LegendHasIt on September 29, 2006 at 5:18 PM
I support waterboarding terrorists, I think Bush made a tremendous boo-boo in not killing al-Sadr a few years earlier, and I agree with you that our country has become way to too soft when it comes to waging war. However, talking about getting tougher means very little if we don't know where we are going with that tough approach. "Hearts and minds" is not a concrete military strategy. If you think otherwise, then I suggest you don't know what a successful war is.
I totally agree with you here. I also agree we are too nice to people that hate us and should have crushed Al-Sadr. (I doubt Rumsfeld made that call.) But I still disagree that Rumsfeld must go and that this war has not been successful, even with politically correct mishaps like refusing to wipe out Al-Sadr and his militia. We are fighting Al Qaeda in Iraq and Afghanistan and we have only lost just over 3000 troops in over four years–and they have not been able to strike American civilians since.
Why then should this war be considered unsuccessful and why should Rumsfeld resign for a successful strategy against Al Qaeda?
januarius on September 29, 2006 at 5:19 PM
The only major mistake that President Bush made is thinking that rationality would conquer hate, given the chance.
I agree that Bush was naive when he thought that with democracy that everyone would suddenly get along. Even with the mistakes the war has been remarkably successful in terms of casualties and the fact that Al Qaeda is wasting its resources fighting us there instead of here.
januarius on September 29, 2006 at 5:30 PM
Naive or just hopeful?
I was hopeful myself… I thought, based on prior experience, that the Iraqis (the only one of all the nations in that region) WOULD be able to embrace democracy and overcome the negative teachings of their predominate religion.
I still harbor a faint hope that it may happen. Despite his unfortunbate last name, their President Talebani seems to be a fairly wise, rational and decent man.
If we can help them destroy the Iranian (plus Syrian, Egyptian and 'palestinian') jihadis invading their country to cause trouble and kill their civilians, it still might eventually work out OK.
LegendHasIt on September 29, 2006 at 6:02 PM
januarius on September 29, 2006 at 4:48 PM
you're correct. Dont know why you didnt mention 10,000 died in a few hours on D-Day.
The rhetoric above here today is …? well goofy I guess. Tommy beats up on a tank, designed 30 years ago, thats nothing less than amazing. IT was the reason we took Bagdad in 30 days and we won another 100 HOUR war. We will always be updating armor as long as we have enemies and enemies with-in. Were you standing beside some of our fair weather friends screaming WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE?
I got sucked in. I'm arguing tanks instead of Rumsfeld or America's winning ways in Iraq, and around the world.
He is not an expert on war.
tommy1 on September 29, 2006 at 4:30 PM
You say this about Rumsfeld, but do you really have any idea what you're talking about? Might be you should look up some of his credentials!
Woodard is an expert on nothing but "what other people are thinking". We do have experts on war in this country not named Norman Schwarzkopf, and I believe Rumsfeld is qualified.
Oh, by the way, IMHO Rumsfeld is the best SecDef we have EVER had; at least in my life time, possibly ever.
I wrote a treatise on why I believe this some time ago (don't have time to re-write it or find it now).
Rummy critics either have no real clue of what the military is supposed to do, or the ones who have/do themselves serve, are seeing their own 'ox gored' by Rummy's changing the military structure and mission capability to fight the fights we have to fight now and will likely have to fight in the future.
LegendHasIt on September 29, 2006 at 6:13 PM
Oh, crud, and one more thing:
Yeah, POLITICALLY, President Bush would be well served to fire Rummy. The problem is, is that President Bush is concerned that America be able to properly defend itself after he is gone.
Thank goodness that the President is more concerned with the survival of the USA than he is political expedency and being loved by the left.
Now, I'm outta here for a couple of hours.
LegendHasIt on September 29, 2006 at 6:17 PM
Tommy beats up on a tank, designed 30 years ago, thats nothing less than amazing
Please. The Abrams tank itself is about the best in the world. But even the best tanks in the world are losing their edge quickly. I highly doubt that the tanks haven't been modified in 30 years either. I'm sure they've been refitted plenty of times. But the problem isn't so much the tank: it is hype surrounding the tank. I look at the hype surrounding the Merkava and then how vulnerable those Merkavas proved against Hezbollah and have to wonder if anyone is paying attention to the fact that today's tanks are losing serious ground to anti-tank weaponry. Again, we need major advancements in armor design. I also think we need to fund much more missle defense research. Especially against very short range missles, like the ones Hezbollah used against Israel, and very long-range missles, like the ones that North Korea may eventually come to possess.
tommy1 on September 29, 2006 at 7:38 PM
A few comments:
1. The biggest problem that no one really wants to talk about is that a people who have only ever known oppression cannot learn what a democracy is and put it into practice in a few years. We sat on the Japanese for 2 decades before we left them to govern themselves. It took the education of an entire generation in the values of a democracy for that democracy to come into being and flourish. No one wants to say it, but that is how you truly change things in the Middle East; an entire generation has to be raised with democratic values about individual freedom and responsibility before it will really work. That is why so many Eastern European nations have struggled since gaining their freedom. This stuff doesn't happen overnight, but Americans have lost the ability to do anything over the long-haul. As a culture we want instant gratification.
2. Another issue is money. I work for the government and what seems to be happening with the money is that Congress has put money that would normally go into home station operations and put it towards the war. This makes sens. However, if you want more soldiers and want to be prepared for the long haul, then you have to keep the home station money at roughly the same level so you have the number of troops needed and trained properly. Instead, the government has dramatically cut the money for home station operations, which is leading to massive cuts in personnel and other necessary activities in order to ensure that training remains for those who remain in the military. Over the long haul, this won't work because folks will not re-enlist because they are too worn out from the stress of deployments and not having enough resources at home station. Meanwhile, the government continues to spend billions of dollars on unnecessary government programs. Again, in order to win a long war, spending on the military should increase to some extent while programs that are nice to have on the civilian side need to decrease. It's called sacrifice and our country used to know how to do it.
3. If you ask a lot of the folks coming home from overseas, we are not doing nearly as bad as the doom-sayers would like. In fact, some think we are winning the war. You will just never hear about that from any MSM or the likes of Bob Woodward.
kemphd on September 29, 2006 at 7:54 PM
By the way, the Army is working on developing a new type of tank that can deal with the stuff being used by the insurgency and still be light enough to provide quick mobility.
kemphd on September 29, 2006 at 7:57 PM
Now I'm laughing.
"Oh yes, tanks! For the Americans, the Abrams, and for the Israelis, the Merkava. Yes, these tanks with all that reactive armor that were supposed to be practically invicible in the face of anything short of a massive explosion? The ones that have fallen prey readily to shaped charges?"
"We need an entirely new generation of armor for tanks. The current generation of armor has been dramatically overhyped by contractors and their buddies in the Pentagon."
"More science and proven results and less hype on the armor front, please."
tommy1 on September 29, 2006 at 4:42 PM
Overhyped? This one is so ludicrous as to be unbelievably retarded. Rumsfeld cancelled the follow on to the Paladin self propelled artillery, the Crusader. He had no intention of cancelling the M1A1, nor M1A2, which is coincidentally the MOST successful tank in the world. M1s have been hit by dozens, I say again DOZENS, of RPGs in Iraq and continue to work and protect the Men inside who then kill dozens, I say again, DOZENS of insurgents in return fire. They have vulnerabilities. But the ragheads (I said ragheads, by God) need to get behind them and hit them in just the correct spot to disable them.
The crew survival rate under enemy fire of all types in the M1A1 is more than a bit better than the survival rate for the crew inside a Russian made T-72 or T-80 Main Battle Tank (MBT) when under fire from the M1A1, Javelins, TOWs, or RPGs.
To claim that the armor used by American forces in this war has been unsuccessful and needs to be replaced because shaped charges are killing our Men by blowing up underneath our tanks is pretty dumb, if you ask me. All tanks are built and designed with this vulnerability. Speed is more important in a tank battle. Weight is a hindrance.
The results speak for themselves. In the initial invasion and drive to Baghdad NO, I repeat, NONE, of the handful of M1A1s destroyed or disabled were as a result of direct or indirect enemy fire. Most of the disabled tanks were disabled by mechanical failure or enemy fire which damaged required combat ready systems. The sole destroyed tank was destroyed by US Maverick missiles to keep the tank from falling into Iraqi hands. No personnel were lost due to enemy fire in an M1A1 tank in this period. During the occupation over 80 M1s have been damaged and a fraction of them destroyed. No further unclassified information is available, but you can bet that the US Main Battle Tanks are NOT as vulnerable as you surmise.
If you read the exploits of CPT Neal Prakash (winner of the Silver Star for action in Baquba, and later decorated for action in Fallujah), and any number of other tankers in this war, you would find that M1A1s are nearly indestructible and are far better at surviving any blast than any other vehicle we have, except maybe the Strikers. These are the follow units to M1A1s and M1A2s for the Army and they are already outstripping the M1s performance in some areas.
Technology will always find a way to defeat armor. What it can't defeat is Men who are tougher than insurgents who hide in fear every time our soldiers walk by, and only come out to fight when they can hide behind little girls to shoot at Americans.
More science and less hype? Look in the mirror Tommy1.
Subsunk out.
Subsunk on September 29, 2006 at 8:02 PM
My understanding is that the modern Merkavas are not far from the modern Abrams as far as armor goes. If that is the case, then we have real problems. It wasn't shaped charges lying beneath tanks taking out those Merkavas, it was anti-tank missles.
Do you have information, Subsunk, indicating that the Abrams is substantially stronger than the Merkava?
tommy1 on September 29, 2006 at 11:23 PM
AP wrote:
"…but score-settling and face-saving motives aside, there's surely some truth to it."
And then he wrote: "If I get even one comment in this thread — from someone other than honora or GregH, I mean — that addresses the substance of the allegations, I'll consider it a moral victory."
How can you tell what the substance really is, the book isn't published yet!
Given that the NY Times cherry picks from documents with the intent to smear Bush every chance they get, they do not have much credibility. In other words, the book probably does NOT say what the Times says it does.
Point 2:
Were mistakes made in the war and afterward? Yep. Did Stimson, Marshall, MacArthur, Eisenhower, Nimitz, Halsey, Patton, Bradley make mistakes during WWII? Yep. And these mistakes cost THOUSANDS of American lives.
Ever hear of Clausewitz?
"Everything in war is very simple, but the simplest thing is difficult. The difficulties accumulate and end by producing a kind of friction. . . . This tremendous friction . . . is everywhere in contact with chance, and brings about effects that cannot be measured, just because they are largely due to chance. . . . Moreover, every war is rich in unique episodes."
Iraq is just like every other war in this sense. It is a given that wrong decisions were made once we invaded Iraq.
It is a given that the enemy out-thought and out-maneuvered us on more than one occasion. It is to be expected. How we react to the unexpected is what counts. Have we changed tactics in the face of changes in the enemy's tactics? Has the US military reacted with flexibility to the enemy's new tactics? YOU BET!
We've got the most lethal, most flexible, most capable military in the world. And contrary to what the 5th Columnists in the leftstream media are telling us, we are not being "picked off" one by one while we are twisting slowly in the wind in the "quagmire." We are NOT being told what or where the battles are by the media, what the effect of our operations are on the people, or how badly the enemy is hurting as a result. If they told us what the context is, they would be unable to sabotage the war by the incessent death count.
Furthermore, we are given FAKE stories, and fake pictures, planted by Al Qaeda operatives in the Associated Press and Reuters, embellished by "reporters" reporting from outside their hotel bar in the Green Zone, and then the whole lot of hooey is pontificated on by flaming morons like David Gregory, Brian Ross, Brian Williams, Charlie Gibson, and that ignorant twit, Katy Couric.
The video tape — from a year ago — this week on ABC news and nighline was a PRIME EXAMPLE.
What the hell! Is Rumsfeld or Bush, or Franks, or Bremer, or [fill in the blank] expected to be INFALLABLE by the asshole left?
Point 3:
Woodward, according to the summaries — I have NOT read the book — says that some statistics were kept from the public, implying that the administration did not level with the press. SO WHAT!!!
This is supposed to be some kind of election killing revelation? Do these morons in the media really think that the public is STUPID?
Here's what FDR said during WWII.
"Your Government has unmistakable confidence in your ability to hear the worst, without flinching or losing heart. You must, in turn, have complete confidence that your Government is keeping nothing from you except information that will help the enemy in his attempt to destroy us. In a democracy there is always a solemn pact of truth between government and the people, but there must also always be a full use of discretion, and that word " discretion" applies to the critics of government as well.
This is war. The American people want to know, and will be told, the general trend of how the war is going. But they do not wish to help the enemy any more than our fighting forces do, and they will pay little attention to the rumor-mongers and the poison peddlers in our midst. "
[Franklin D. Roosevelt, "Fireside Chat 20 (February 23, 1942), On the Progress of the War," http://millercenter.virginia.edu/scripps/diglibrary/prezspeeches/roosevelt/fdr_1942_0223.html%5D
The above speach (or one very much like it) should be given by Bush at least once a week.
I am convinced — by the reaction after the NSA and financial transaction leaks — that the American people fully understand the need for some secrets, including ones that would give the enemy heart.
I remain convinced that the public understands that there WILL be reverses just as there will be victories and that the public does NOT NEED to know them if disclosure will aid and abet the enemy.
I remain convinced that the public's dissatification with the war is identical with that shown in 1864, 1918, 1944, and 1952 and every other long war. And, let add, in 1781 as well. Everybody wants the war to be over — not the least, me, as my son is a US Marine and an Iraq war veteran — and I and my wife dred any phone call with the callerid of "US GOVT" telling son he has orders, again, to the middle east.
But I (and 61% of the American public — according to Michael Barone) think that we need to stay in Iraq until the new government can stand on its own.
I agree with the ACTUAL NIE (not the crap peddled by WashPO and the Times) that if the jihadists LOSE in Iraq, the jihadi movement if finished.
Isn't that the prize, here?
georgej on September 30, 2006 at 6:59 AM
The shaped charges that are causing us such grief in Iraq are an adaptation that the enemy has made with Iranian help.
War is funny like that. It doesn't go your way 100% of the time. The enemy is clever and resourceful and they don't quit because you show up in big tanks and helicopters and uniforms with your name sewn own them. They keep fighting and looking for new and different ways to kill you.
So far, they've gotten 2500 or so, in three years of war.
How many have we gotten of them? How much territory do they hold? What have they won, and what have we lost to them?
And then there's the most important question that we need to be looking at as we consider going forward: What are the Iraqis doing to control their own security/destiny and are they taking the opportunity we've given them seriously?
I submit to you that they are.
Pablo on September 30, 2006 at 8:35 AM
"Hearts and minds" is not a concrete military strategy.
Bush & Co. need to rip a page out of hezbollah's playbook – they have the "hearts and minds" thingy down pat.
pullingmyhairout on September 30, 2006 at 9:50 AM
So much foolishness and so little appetite to deal with it.
Do you old guys remember the Peace Dividend?
After the
of the Cold War (hahaha), everyone was anxious to ease up on defense spending. Better things to do at home, don't you know? Let's close most of our military bases and pour the money into more social programs. A fellow named Clinton was Commander in Chief for 8 very long years. His first Sec of Defense, a political hack by the name of Les Aspen(?), didn't want to ship heavy armored vehicles to Somalia so we got Black Hawk Down. Aspen fell on his sword and another career politician was given the job of enforcing the Peace Dividend. I had an idea for a post-911 poster that would have shown the twin towers smoking and burning with just the caption The Peace Dividend. I think I would have made some nice money selling it.
The fact is that we should an active military force at least twice its present size. Donald Rumsfeld has worked magic with what he had been giving. He went into the Pentagon with the intent of cracking heads. Leslie Clark wasn't the sole inhabitant of that building that was more hat than cattle. Rumsfeld's mission was set before he as sworn in. 911 made it a helluva lot harder to effect. He was honest enough to remind us that
you fight with the army you have"
. Can anybody seriously think that he had all the pieces he wanted in place?
The fact is that we did know Saddam had WMD, and alert readers have come across reports of their finding from time to time. But the progressive democrats (read: communists) & the progressive MSM keep their baying at such a high level that these things go largely unnoticed. Forget the large convoys going out of Iraq into Syria during the buildup to the war. I remember a report of Hussein's wife & family leaving in a convoy of at least a dozen large moving trucks. Was it all shoes & burqas? Thgese things were reported. Remember the jets being dug out of the desert and caches of hundreds of millions of American dollars being found here & there?
Is this the first war where we've had Rules of Engagement drawn up by lawyers for specific engagements? I don't think that was Rumsfeld's idea but it emblematic of what a candyass political class we have leading us. (Visions of Patsy Schroeder crying on the floor of the House.
Iraq has been a great success because it has afforded us the glorious opportunity of dispatching tens of thousands of animals made up to look human. Let them meet the devil in the hundreds of thousands or even millions. I know I'll sure feel good about it.
What kind of silly person wants to about the way this or that done when we're in the middle of a war? That's for the history book to write about years hence. We're in an armed conflict– the only way to look is forward.
We won't lose the war in Iraq in Iraq, we'll lose it at home not with the cliched hearts & minds crapola but back home in our communities. Educational systems that want to make your kids pansies, urban & suburban communities who heed to the NIMBY credo, people who because they are being taxed to death leave it to MTV to raise their kids.
I could go on & on but the bile is choking me.
You want to win a war, then wage a war. Iraq is only the first stop.
One American life is worth n number of any other.
thegreatbeast on September 30, 2006 at 8:19 PM
I'll give you WWII as a successful war and commend FDR's stewardship thereof … but are you serious about the other three?? If so, you are even farther gone than I already thought.
thirteen28 on September 29, 2006 at 5:10 PM
Pay attention–I was responding to the statement that liberal never want to wage war.
honora on October 2, 2006 at 1:07 PM
Honora: You still do not comprehend that Wilson, FDR, Truman, and Johnson are not Howard Dean/McGovern-type liberals, the kind that are whining about Iraq right now. The Democrat party is different today in case you haven't noticed.
And you think that WWII was a success (how convenient in hindsight) when single battles lost thousands of American lives–while Iraq in your view is such a failure that Rumsfeld must be fired because we have lost a little over 3000 troops in the War on Terror.
I love it when libs get upset that we took over Iraq with hardly any casualties at all and then whine that we have lost 3000 troops since. I guess a successful war to them would have been thousands of troops dying to take over the country and few troops in guerrila warfare.
But this is all irrelevant because today's liberals would never go to war under any scenerio.
januarius on September 29, 2006 at 5:06 PM
Your premise that liberals would never go to war is just that: a premise. Look up the difference between that and a fact. (And RINOs are not real Republicans…it's so hard to keep this all straight….)
Let's see: you want to claim that Wilson/FDR/Truman/Johnson are not liberals like today's liberals? And this is because you assume they would agree with you, not today's liberals. Well gee, it's hard to argue with that buttoned up logic.
Interesting that you are calling on the memory of the country's most emblamatic liberals to bolster your point of view. Honey I hate to break this to you, but this is a real, real serious sign that the wheels are coming off your argument. I get a headache just thinking about the mental acrobatics required to maintain it.
honora on October 2, 2006 at 1:14 PM
Bush & Co. need to rip a page out of hezbollah's playbook – they have the "hearts and minds" thingy down pat.
pullingmyhairout on September 30, 2006 at 9:50 AM
Exactly. And it's especially key when the enemy shares the culture of the population and we don't. And especially difficult. Monumentally difficult as we are learning.
honora on October 2, 2006 at 1:18 PM


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Seattle are also lucky to have Russell Wilson under contract for absolutely nothing. They'll be going all-in to get a championship before his rookie contract lapses in 2016.
5 years, 37 million for Anthony Davis.
My body was sculpted to the proportions of Michelangelo's David.
Who cares. I can see the determined Seahawks taking their division. I mean, c'mon, lose the division by .5 games, and calling a timeout during the playoff game against the Falcons during a missed kick, only to allow them to re-kick and win. That sucks too. As of roster strength, Seahawks have more and are powerful. Will be interesting to see them play against us at home this season.
2017 Mock Draft
1st: Forrest Lamp, OG Western Kentucky
2nd: Caleb Brantley, DT Florida
3rd: Gerald Everett, TE South Alabama
4th: Dont'a Foreman, RB Texas
5th: Damontae Kazee, CB San Diego State
6th: KD Cannon, WR Baylor
7th: Jalen Reeves-Maybin, LB Tennessee


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How misfortunate to have the leg cramp, i do hope its nothing to do with her previous condition with her legs which caused her to not be able to skate. She seemed to be breathing hard but maybe it was because of the pain and stress of the situation.Their program is the most difficult and complex to perform, they could make it a little easier but what a wonderful program. Right away i found it a program which commands your attention. Just wonder if we will get to see it perfectly executed. Hope both V/M and D/W can skate well. V/M have the chemistry, complexity, and unision and D/W have the speed, lightness, and skate unrestrained.
Sorry somehow there was a double post.
Last edited by figuristka; 02-11-2013 at 05:59 AM.
But then I can be a cynic too. LOL.
"I said this in the 4CCs thread, but if you look to Tessa's skating leg in the setup for the lift, you can see it sort of shake and give way, preventing her from being able to push up into the lift."
"When they're going into the lift, after she steps on her left leg it goes shaky, and then she picks up her left leg as if it were in pain or cramped up. Pay close attention to her leg after she does the last cross in front. It doesn't look stable at all."
-triple_toe on FSU.
Just saw Maia and Alex's FD. Standing ovation. A FD score just .20 off their personal best. Eurosport commentator: "They couldn't have done that any better." (They did lose some levels, so technically they could do a little better...but I get the spirit of what he was saying).
Yep, they're DOOMED.
Congrats to Meryl and Charlie and good job to Tessa and Scott for toughing it out. And Madison and Evan for winning bronze with two solid programs.
Worlds is going to be interesting!
Yeah, there was definitely something wrong with her leg. After rewatching that place over and over, I noticed that her left leg would twitch and she was the one that seemed slightly in pain, so I don't think Scott's the problem here. If anything, he was a great partner. He noticed she had a problem and didn't do the lift, and, while I can't read lips, it seemed to me that after that he kept telling her "Don't skate, don't skate". Anyway, it was a great program to watch and I hope Tessa's ok!
Meryl and Charlie, wow That was a terrific skate from the two of them. They really gave 110% out there, poor Charlie couldn't even stand on his feet for a while after the program. Hope both them and V/M keep improving and that we'll get to see them skate their programs best at the Worlds.
And the Shibs skated really well too, wish they could've grabbed that bronze medal... Shame they didn't.
Obviously, any skater wants to do great at worlds. But why throw away a competition? If a competition is worth throwing away/ not doing your best, then it's not worth going. I resent the fact that V/M only want to do great at worlds, yet D/W want to do great at every competition and show it by putting their all into every event, even the "small ones." That, to me, is "respecting the sport."
To me, stopping to shake out your legs for two minutes because you don't have the stamina to do an element, is no different than popping a jump. If you are not physically ready then you don't deserve the silver medal.
It's a completely different situation than say, a pairs skater falling during an element and hitting her face on the ice, which would clearly need a two minute break to evaluate before continuing. An injury that happens *during* the program. It's not the same as an "old injury" that keeps resurfacing.
Even Ashley Wagner can fall majorly and bust her hip yet not stop the program. V/M are taking advantage of "break" rule and the judges are letting them, which is disappointing.
Yes, it is suspicious because both times Tessa has had this issue at 4CC's, she stares ahead like a blank robot, doesn't explain to anyone what's going on, does not look in pain, and does not appear to require any sort of treatment.
Why couldn't they just have left out the lift and kept on skating?
Because they would lose all the points associated with the lift. And when you have a competition that is always that close with your nearest rival, even fractions of a point are crucial. By restarting there was always the chance of saving the lift--and the points associated with it.


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|GTA V Latest News | #GTAV | #GTAOnline
2008 Chinatown Wars delayed, slated for Spring 2009 release
GTA: Chinatown Wars - General News | @ 09:48 PM MDT | By rappo
Before even receiving a set release date, GTA: Chinatown Wars, the upcoming GTA installment for the Nintendo DS, has joined the ranks of GTA IV PC and Xbox 360 downloadable content as delayed.
At a press conference today, Take-Two Interactive CEO Strauss Zelnick confirmed GTA IV DLC's delay rumors stating that it may arrive as late as Spring 2009. Zelnick also stated that Chinatown Wars isn't scheduled to be released in the first quarter of the 2009 fiscal year (January 2009) as initially expected, but will arrive within Q2 2009, which ends in April.
via GTA-Xtreme
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text: I just made a Mu Online server and 2 days ago i noticed that something was wrong . The Dark Raven and Dark Horse both stop growing when they reach lvl 50 . It's like they stop getting exp or something . I dont understand why . Is it a setting that I need to modify ???? Pls give me some advice !!!!


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Does anyone know where I can find a free, easy Lone Star pattern online. I am a beginner quilter and just love the looks of these. Thanks so much.
Welcome to the Quilting Board!
Does anyone know where I can find a free, easy Lone Star pattern online. I am a beginner quilter and just love the looks of these. Thanks so much.
This is a search on the QB. Maybe there will be something you are interested here:) http://www.quiltingboard.com/search....0&s=5&s=10&s=4
Check in our own tutorial section of the QB. I recall a couple being posted there.
I have an Evening Star pattern it isn't free but super simple. No diamonds and no "Y" seams. But looks like it does. It is by Calico Carriage. www.calicocarriage.com
Check out Jan Krentz site. She has lone star patterns. Start with her lesson on Quick LemOyne Star Quilt. Then after you master that, since you said were a beginner, then go for the more difficult pattern. I made my lone star quilt using her technique and it turned out wonderful.
As a beginner I would start with something less challenging, lonestars tend to be difficult. I tried doing one from a kit as my very first project, boy what a mistake. I finally hauled it out(after many years) and a lady who has make several lonestars is helping me to revamp it as I had to make changes to it. Just some friendly advise, please don't take it the wrong way.
Get a paper piecing pattern for the lone star quilt.
This is not a quilt for a beginner to tackle.
Thank you to all for the great suggestions!
I would not recommand to start with a lone star when you are a beginner. I made my very first lone star when I was quilting about one year (also still a beginner) and it was very difficult, because there are different ways to make them.
Now, I have more quilting experience and I made more lone stars and I also teach how to make them.There is a tutorial here on the quilting board in the tutorial section.
It's just a friendly advise,please don't take it the wrong way.


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Happy Australia Day!
Trip Start Oct 22, 2005
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AI Express Hostel
Arriving in Tallinn around 10pm we asked how far the bus station was from the centre of town. Only a quick walk we were advised. About 30 minutes later we ended up walking into the Radisson hotel's reception, begging for help. Where were we? Luckily only 15 minutes away from the Al Express hostel. After a good nights sleep it was off to explore a new country.
Tallinn is a really nice town, with the old city walls and cobble stone streets. It's really relaxing here and we don't feel on edge like we did in Russia, expecting the police to hassle us for our papers at every turn. We wandered around town through the Town Hall Square. Walking up to Toompea Hill we had a great view of the city and the old Toompea Castle, now the Riigikogu, the Estonian parliament. It's amazing that some of the buildings were built in the 12th century. Deciding just to wander around this quiet town (though we hear in summer it's invaded by Finnish tourists) we walked past markets selling only knitted goods (never can have enough knitted wool and wool related products in these parts) and ended up at a book shop. Sitting in the shop's cafe, the music was almost as bad as the stuff we'd had to listen to on the bus in Laos, except this time there was yodeling mixed in.
Having dinner at the cool Kompressor restaurant we eye'd off the Foster's on tap. Considering it was Australia Day we almost succumbed and had a pint, but who in the world drinks this stuff? We toasted the day with a pint of A.Le Coq and a glass of Fizz Cider.
For those that have asked, the tip of Rick's frozen nose is in good health and finally recovering from the freezing treatment it got in Russia.


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I'm still fairly new at this. I think things are going well so far this season. The only problem is that I'm bothered by the fact that each time I go into my hive I smoosh bees between the boxes, between the frames, and under my fingers. It seems like a lot of bees die. That crunching sound makes me cringe. I feel terrible, and I'm wondering if this is just part of it, or if the expert beekeepers move smoothly enough to avoid harming any bees most of the time.
How do you do it?
Thank you.


text:
I don't find anywhere that someone has already posted this. It was written by a Liberal. This gentleman makes a lot of good pro gun statements-better that some conservatives have done. It is a good read! We can all benefit from it.
Dear Gun Control Democrats: 6 Ways to Make a Better Argument | Kontradictions


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Town Square
Psychopathic Killer Movies at the Oscars Again.....
Original post made by Paulette, Val Vista, on Mar 28, 2008
When I saw the Coen brothers accepting the many awards bestowed upon them for "No Country For Old Men," I wondered why they acted like it was a big joke that they won. Now I know...
I honestly didn't see this film as anything special. I thought Robert De Niro in "Cape Fear" was a much more interesting psycho than the character in "No Country..." I wonder why so many awards go to these films that highlight personalities who have no conscience whatsoever. People went nuts over "Pulp Fiction," another mediocre film that's only purpose seemed to be a portrayl of coldblooded killers as loveable goofballs. And, then, there was "Silence of the Lambs." Ugh! I wouldn't go see that film if I was paid $100. to go see it. Honestly! I wouldn't want to pollute my mind with such hideousness.
But, I have to admit that I too enjoy some movies that have violence in them. "LA Confidential" is one of my favorite films. I enjoyed "The Usual Suspects," the first "Kill Bill," and "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon," for example.
I really liked the Coen's film, "Fargo." I thought it was hilarious, in a warped, black humor sort of way. But, I felt like "Old Country For Old Men" just consolidated all the darkness of all those dumb people from Fargo into this one guy. But, in this case, the joke is on us. We're the dummies. For me, the journey to that ultimate message wasn't worth the trip. I already knew that. So, the Academy was wowed by yet another terminator type, psychopathic Earl, making his way comfortably through cities and towns, through churches, into the sitting room of a grieving widow, killing people in a variety of unique ways, in our faces, and, he gets away with it. What a grand message! Even my husband thought the movie stunk. We both sat there staring blankly at each other, wishing we'd watched "Geronimo" on TV instead.
I'd like to think that movies that resonate with people at a gut level should be part of what makes a movie Academy Award worthy.
Here we had this beautiful film, "Into the Wild," by Sean Penn about a young man, coming of age, asking himself what in life is truly important? Like many young men before him, he set out on his own path, searching for whatever he couldn't find in his life up until now. We follow him on this journey of adventure and the friendships he makes along the way. I read the book; and, I was pleasantly surprised how beautifully Penn translated this into a movie. At so many levels, this movie was entertaining. So many messages and characters who came alive in my heart. The lessons the young man could've learned; but, through the rashness of youth and the fickleness of fate, would only live on through his journals.
This visually stunning and entertaining film, brimming with heart and wisdom got nothing at the Academy Awards. It got a few mentions and that's it.
People said what a good job Tommy Lee Jones did in "No Country.." - that his grizzled, weary character mouthing a few words here and there about the callousness of society made the movie art. I guess him representing the weariness of an Empire gone beserk or something was supposed to lift us up out of the gunk, leaving us in a state of holy enlightenment. Personally, I think that small tribute to humanity in the movie shot way over most people's heads. And, was sort of stuck on there, like a tail on a donkey.
And, I wouldn't be so mean about it, except that they got the freakin' Academy Award for it. Otherwise, I'd say, "Yeah..it was okay. Kind of a kick. Wouldn't see it again. Would recommend it as a movie to watch while you're folding laundry, maybe..."
For my money, a much better Tommy Lee Jones movie with a more revealing and touching human message is "The Three Burials Of Melquiades Estrada."
Only one guy gets killed in it; and, the message is that no matter how insignificant he was to most people, that he as a human being mattered. And, Tommy Lee Jone's character sets out to show at least one person the truth of that. Of course it wasn't at all believeable; but, then, neither was "No Country..."
Some movies show us a world of violence, death, and hopelessness. Another shows us the same world; but, for a moment, we can feel the living breathing heart of a person. For a moment, humanity matters.
Here's hoping that movies like that get their foot in the door someday.
Comments (2)
a resident of Livermore
on Mar 28, 2008 at 8:41 pm
Did somebody just say $100? Lets cut a deal, you give me the $100 + a double bacon cheeseburger with fries and I'll go see the movie! Is it a deal?
a resident of Canyon Meadows
on Jul 8, 2008 at 2:43 pm
An Academy Award doesn't mean anything to me. It doesn't mean the movie was worthy in any way. It's all political.
Have you noticed that in commercial Hollywood movies women and girls age about 12 and up are always dressed in extremely tight and very low-cut shirts? I think that's pathetic. They think so little of the value of their movie that they use a female child's (or woman's) body to lure movie goers, (see Zathura, RV and all the rest.)
It's pathetic that it's 2008 and we're still at that level.
How about all the movies that get their entertainment value from the rape and murder of a woman? Or the possibility of those crimes?
I saw a bunch of Pleasanton teenage boys choosing a movied called Sexual Predator at a local video store. That's really sad. It's not their fault because this is what we raise our kids on.
It's strange that the potential or actual abuse of a woman (I'm not going to call it 'sexual' abuse because a rape is not a sexual experience for a woman, it's torture) is considered an appropriate theme for a movie. A woman might get raped. Cool! Grab the popcorn!
Movie makers make sure it's an attractive woman, so that our kids will have the connection of a woman being abused and sexual arousal in their brains for the rest of their lives.
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Livermore trustees demonstrating wisdom
By Tim Hunt | 11 comments | 1,231 views
The Great Divide, and What's Next?
By Tom Cushing | 38 comments | 918 views
2017 guide to summer camps
Looking for something for the kids to do this summer, learn something new and have fun? The 2017 Summer Camp Guide features local camps for all ages and interests.


text:
Donnie Cook, president of the Bank of America in Little Rock, presented an oversized check to Dr. Margaret Ellibee, college president, at the institute, which opened Monday.
"One of the goals of Bank of America is to give back to the communities where we are located, and that is something we take pride in," Cook said. "We know that education is the #1 component to changing people's lives."
Bank of America has contributed more than $213,000 since 2002 to support the college's programs and services.
The computer lab and classroom, located on the institute's second floor, will be used by many of the 500 students enrolled in culinary and hospitality programs.
Pulaski Technical College


text:
That IKEA has some wonderful furniture and great prices! Love your new cutting table!
Welcome to the Quilting Board!
That IKEA has some wonderful furniture and great prices! Love your new cutting table!
Janome 9900 / Janome 9700 / Janome Decor 3050 / Janome 1100D serger
Singer Centennial model (inherited from my late, fav aunt!)
that is beautiful-you have beauty and function together
Looks great and so useful.
Another Phyllis
This life is the only one you get - enjoy it before you lose it.
Love it! I love Ikea!
Looks great for a sewing room.
Very cool!! Did you also buy the legs at Ikea?
excellent. Very nicely done.
I am also in the process of assembling an expedit table! Mine is a bit different that yours as I'm using the 2x4 units. Had to buy casters so I can move it as needed. Hope to finish today and start getting my quilt room organized! Also bought a 10' by 8' shelving unit for fabric storage. So much work left to do but I am excited to see it all starting to come together.
This is a wonderful storage and work top. I like the sleek, clean lines.