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Passive Aggressive Relationships
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Zolotas posted 6/26/2009 11:05 AM
I'm a first time poster here at this forum. I've been reading through the threads and I think I need to be here - I need advice as I don't know how to handle or deal with this on going issue that is definitely having a huge impact on my marriage. It's taken me a while to understand really how passive aggressive my fwh really is. I don't think I can condense it enough to give a real picture...first, let me say, thank you to anyone that can read this novel, digest it and give me sound, level advice..It's really long and I apologize in advance for this. I feel like I'm ready to jump off (pushed) the Golden Gate head first...this whole saga has been brewing for 27 yrs...I need help. I believe it's residual from my fwh messed up, emotionally bankrupt childhood, all the things that led and allowed him to have an A.
I'll start this with the fact that I am a LTA survivor - it's been over 4 yrs since d-day...I'm past it, I have healed (as much as one can heal from this traumatic painful hammer to the head and heart)...my fwh has done everything to help me heal, for us to heal and to go forward...for that, I'm grateful. My marriage is good - he shows it in every way and everyday...except when it comes to his family.
I understand why and how the A started and continued for almost 8 yrs...I get it and accept it (not condoning it)...I get it was not me, and certainly not her (the Slut Monkey that she is)..but I get it...I get it was his dysfunctional childhood, his abandonment issues, his lack of love and touch from his father, his stepmother (since he was 3 yrs old) and always being the 'odd' kid out that allowed him the permission to feel better about himself and have an A.... I get that he realized the OW could destroy his world, she manipulated and blackmailed him (she admitted this) and was not a big enough person to call it off out of fear, I get the coward part and the P/A...I totally get it...we've worked hard on us, our marriage and our communication..it's all good...except...............
His family...this is my biggest problem. It's been my biggest problem and I fear for the future of our marriage.
For my fwh's entire life, he has jumped up and down, waving his arms and screamed "here I am, I've done GREAT, I'm educated, I made it, I've achieved the ultimate dream, I have succeeded" (none have them have achieved anything other than making more dysfunctional kids)...my husb (no more "FWH", he's my faithful, loyal husb) has for his entire life, since he found out his real mother abandoned him at 9 mo old (due to infidelity and threats of physical harm from his bio father), has only wanted his bio father to recognize him, love him and show it...Not once while I have been married has his family, particularly his dad, ever recognized my husb for anything...not even being his son. My husb has done everything he can do to shout over the silence and dysfunction.... nothing works...I get this, however, my husb does not..and keeps working and trying to be the son of all sons.It's all happening at my expense. It makes me so sad and sick to realize this situation. It makes me sick to hear my husb tell his father via phone "I love you" and his father doesn't respond. I see the sadness this brings my husb.
Not once in my husbs life has he heard from any family member, "I love you" or anything other term of endearment, no recognition, no conversation about feelings, wants or needs. Every problem is pushed under the rug and ignored. The entire family is emotionally retarded. FIL was a cheater, Grandfather and uncles were cheaters, Aunt was a cheater(her BS committed suicide after learning that 4 of his 8 children weren't his), his brother is a cheater. His sister is a 40 yr old never been married alcoholic that's 250 pounds overweight - she's a miserable hateful person. No matter what you say, she says opposite - rude comments fly out of her mouth continuously. Her attitude is that she is better than everyone else, knows more than anyone else. If you're not blood family, you're nothing but a piece of shit and she's quite clear about this with her behavior and her words.
MIL is quiet - but talks behind your back. She is unable to carry on a conversation about anything other than the weather. Her actions speak louder than any words - she is mean and spiteful. Not once in my 27 yr marriage has she picked up the phone to chat with me (I've tried but got the cold one word answers -that was 25 yrs ago, I've never called her again). She's never recognized our son (the first grandchild born). On birthday's she sends money to each person - $20 and a card - on my birthday, she sends me $10. Not once has she been hospitable towards me. Example: a group of 6 of us were on the deck and she offered to make coffee - she asked out the window who would like a cup? - all 6 of us wanted some, including me. I offered to come and help her, she said she was okay. When she brought out the tray with the coffee and cups, she poured a cup for each person in the group, except me - there wasn't even a cup for me to pour my own. My passive husb just sat there and never said or did a thing.
Before D-day, my husb moved me to his hometown..a small Midwestern, in the middle of no place town...where his family lives (pop 900). I bought a business, worked 19 hrs a day, tried to be part of his family...did everything I could do for my husb..I didn't know he was in the midst of an 8 yr A but I knew something was wrong with him and I was willing do to anything to make him happy...Our goal was to make the business work, have him retire there and build our dream home and live a peaceful quiet life in the country....I never knew that he was actually running and trying to hide from the Slut Monkey...and trying to keep Slut Monkey from finding me...(that's another story).
For 27 yrs, I have tried to be part of his family. I've done everything possible to get on and love the family that I married into.(my own parents died when I was young).. it's been useless. His step mother has zero emotions, his father says NOTHING, his younger sister (by 9 yrs) is nothing but a raging, bitter, 40 yr old spinster and a drunk..his two brothers have dysfunctional (one cheated big time) marriages.
While I lived there in this small town, after moving from a major metropolis (LA, CA) to a town where I couldn't purchase a loaf of wheat bread without driving 125 miles through blizzards, wind or rain.....running a business alone (my husb was still in CA and commuting back and forth every 2 weeks), that was the hub of a public gathering place.. I was in a place that was totally foreign to me..the weather, the language, the lifestyle, the food, everything....I never once had his family to lean on..not once while I lived there did they acknowledge that I was there, except that I heard my MIL was saying horrible things about me behind my back. I was alone completely to deal with life in a small, rural, gossip filled town, where I didn't know anyone, except my own employees. Not once did my MIL call me, invite me, or acknowledge me. After I moved there, I only heard gossip from the locals about the nasty things my MIL said about me, our bad decision to move there, our business we bought, and our attempt to relocate 2000 miles from what we knew as home. We made this move for my husb to be near his family that he really sees as a wonderful loving family.
All these yrs, my husb has tried in vain to be acknowledged..his family is without emotion, without words, without feelings, without anything.... I see it, I get it...
I've never been treated so horrible by anybody, much less by family - my husb is treated the same way, however, he doesn't see their actions as hurtful, instead, he makes excuses for them and their behavior.
The following are just examples of a few of the things they've done in the last 27 yrs:
No acknowledgement of any gifts, Mother's Day, Father's Day, Christmas, birthdays, - nothing. I"m still not sure they ever received them.
Thanksgiving - we traveled with a small child 2100 miles to attend Thanksgiving at their home - we left home at 3am - got stuck in a blizzard in MPLS, finally arrived at the closest airport (125 miles), rented a car, arrived at their home after 16 hrs of travel...no welcome, no offer of a meal, nothing for our young son ( 8 yrs old), no place in the town to eat, - I ended up going to a gas station and buying cheese sticks for our son as he was hungrey. On Thanksgiving, everyone had a chair, except me..I ended up on the basement steps, alone and without food - (MIL cooked a 13 pound turkey for 19 people)...by the time the platter went around..I was standing without food...this after 2 days of no food and no offer of food...that was 1996 - it's only gotten worse since then.
It's like my MIL does anything and everything she can to stab me and hurt me without words...so does my SIL....my problem, my husb dismisses their actions because he wants so desperately to be recognized by them and believe they are a loving normal family.
I lived there, on my own, waiting for my husb to join me during 04 and 05 which is when he confessed to the A and him running and hiding from it and the fact that he tried to hide me from the Slut Monkey...Not once in the time I lived there (I lived across the street from the Inlaws) did they even acknowledge that I was there, much less owned a business in town, was part of the community, was there alone, was lonely...nothing from them.
While I was there, I needed emergency surgery. The Dr. at the small clinic called my MIL at 7pm to advise her that they ordered an emergency medi-flight to take me to the closest major city for emergency surgery (450 miles). I was there alone and in pain. My MIL worked at the clinic and had for 30 yrs. The Dr. asked her to accompany me and help communicate with my husb who was at the time in AZ for business. Her response was that she likes to go to bed at 10pm, so therefore, she couldn't go. This woman is only 62 yrs old, not like she's 80. The Dr. called one of my employees to go with me. Not sure which hurt worse, the pain or my MIL's lack of care. My husb was mad, but never said anything to her about it.
In 27 yrs these people have NEVER acknowledged my existance, our son's existence...he doesn't get it. My husb blameshifts their behavior on to me like it's my fault. Or his solution is that I should not have gone with him when he visits...I disagree..I should be able to go anyplace he goes, especially on vacation. While my husb has earned my trust back and our marriage is once again solid, I still have fear about infidelity, and especially with him in his hometown, lots of alcohol flowing and the fact that I know which women, both single and married in town have no problem hitting on married men..it's rampant there. I know and trust my husb would not go that route again, however, I'm uncomfortable with him going alone. I shouldn't have to stay home while he goes on vacation. We still own properties there, I have a right to go there and with him.
We were there 14 months ago.., my SIL treated me like shit, she antagonized me, criticized me, slammed me, controlled my conversations with other relatives in a social setting... it was all bad. My MIL said nothing, sat back and never made a comment, even though I am sure she saw the whole picture.....my husb on the other hand, I told him, brought it to light with him what was happening.... he ignored it all. On the way home, mind you a 4 hr drive to the airport, 2 layovers because of connections, and a long flight..blamed me...told me that I should not have gone on vacation with him and the whole situation was a big mess.
There's so much more...27 yrs of abuse by his family and his need and desire to be the "good son"...we're supposed to go there in 3 weeks for his fathers big 75th birthday and 300 relatives in attendance...Not sure how I am going to cope...I'm having huge triggers, crying daily at the thought of going and seeing this family. My husb was very hurt when I told him that I didn't think I could go and why. He said he would stop his sister and mom and take them aside and confront them as soon as they misbehave again...he has said that before, but instead, I was blamed. His history shows that he is not going to stand up for me.
While I lived there,.. I learned of his father's infidelities which is why my husb was abandoned as a baby by his bio mom. I found out a ton of family info about this family I no longer want to even know...In fact, I want to take back my maiden name because I don't want to be associated with this family.
Nothing I say, or do has an effect on my husb..when I make a mention of how they have treated me, us and our son, he gets defensive, and a fight erupts..A huge one at that. I'm so at the end of my rope...I am so dreading this 4 days I have to spend with this dysfunctional hurtful family...and yet my husb doesn't see any of it..he defends them. He won't stand up for me, our son or our marriage..even though he says he will...he doesn't.
What am I going to do? .... this ongoing problem is having a HUGE impact on my marriage, our relationship and my ability to work this forward...how in hell do I deal with this, how do I get and allow my husb to see that his family is not "Leave it to Beaver" and they are all messed up and hurtful to his wife and family?
Only in the last couple of yrs, since d-day has he stood up for me with others that have been out of line, but not with his family. He called his mother on the carpet about a couple of things, such as the Thanksgiving we were there and she didn't set a place for me - apparently his mother told his vile sister that my husb talked to his mom and she threw it in our face and said that my husb hurt his moms feelings...WTF? My feelings have never mattered with these people.
It's so apparent and in your face with their behavior that our 23 yr old son refuses to ever visit or speak to them again. He was disgusted with them the last time he was there - that's another story as how they treated him..lets just say, it wasn't nice at all.
There's so much more about this family and the yrs of abuse from them. I truly and wholeheartedly believe they are the reason he had an A. Deep dark hurt from his childhood, lack of emotional love, confusion and survival as a child led him down the dark path when things in his adult life were stressful, especially his job. He never learned to communicate.
Today, our marriage is good, his communication is on top...he's done everything right, except this problem with his family. I realize he can't change them, but I do believe it's his job to protect me from them and stand up to them.
I guess what I want him to say is "if you can't treat my wife with respect, then I won't be coming here again". He won't do that. When I said this to him, the look of horror on his face told me that he would never say anything like this to them. I truly believe he would pick his family over his wife and son..yet, in every other area of his life, I am top priority as is our son.. I just can't understand all of this...I'd never let my family treat him with such hurt and disrespect, why does he allow this?
If you've made it this far - thanks. I'm desperate for sound advice. I need to know how to draw a line in the sand and not allow them to cross it anymore and be disrespected by this family and yet not cause any more problems in my marriage.
Thoughts, advice, comments??
Again, sorry it's so long.
hollow-promise posted 6/27/2009 23:46 PM
I seems that his family is a "closed unit" and are unwilling to let you into the unit. My daughters inlaws are also a closed unit, but fortunately she has been included, however I have not. They will plan holidays and exclude my FWH and I from the activities unless my daughter presses the issue. But, they are not welcoming when we are allowed to join.
The only suggestion I might make is for your husband to get counseling for his issues. He has to deal with things before he can give you the support you need. He might not think he has a problem, so couples counseling might be the best choice for you. Good luck.
down4now posted 6/28/2009 03:19 AM
I can only repeate hollow promises advice - Ic for him is a must (it's already having an effect on my p/A husband), and MC for both of you - you need a 'referee' to get your feelings across without being shouted down and blamed - that was a great help to us as well (the MC very calmly said to my H after he launched into defensive mode - 'Can you just be quiet and let your W speak and see what she has to say about how she feels?').
best of luck
heartbroken_kk posted 6/28/2009 12:05 PM
My P-A WH has finally "gotten it" about blame shifting. I am pretty shocked that he is actually owning this behavior, and MC has a lot to do with that. Our MC has worked hard with him to get him to do "active listening" so that he can repeat back what I'm saying about how I feel. It helps a lot.
The other day we were on a walk about the neighborhood talking about some interactions we had had recently where I was objecting to something that he has been doing that really bothers me. And he got all defense and started in on defending, rationalizing, explaining, and then, of course, finding a way to make me the cause of it all (if you would just do XX, then I wouldn't do YY, and you wouldn't feel that way). And I said, wait a minute. We were talking about how I feel about this thing YY that you do. Now you've changed the subject and in the process of you defending your habit of doing YY, you've blamed me for it. You're blame shifting. Let's stay on the topic of how I feel when you do your behavior YY. Do you remember what I even said about how I feel?
And low and behold, he couldn't remember. He was so busy building his defense, rationalizing what he does so that he's not at fault, that he never even heard me.
So I repeated, I feel insecure and angry when you do YY. I have asked you not to do YY before and yet even though you agreed that you would stop doing YY you are still doing it. This feels like you are disrespecting me and are lying about your true intentions. If you would truly stop doing YY I could feel more secure in our relationship and less anxious that you are letting your boundaries slip and are making yourself susceptible to the flirtatious advances of this W. Then I could see that you are taking responsibility for your role in repairing our M, instead of shrugging it off and making it my fault that I'm feeling insecure.
Zolotas, your IL family sounds absolutely pathological. You have every right to stay as far away from them as you can. Your WH may never have the strength to disown them, and your request that he stand up to them may feel like that is what you are asking him to do. Because he can't do that, he just tries to find middle ground and that isn't even acceptible to you.
It's hard to feel compassion towards the P-A WS sometimes because they make you so angry, but damn. He didn't choose his family. He has no control over them. Standing up to them won't make them change. Asking him to disown them when he's spent his whole life trying to get them to love him may not be reasonable. I would recommend trying to find a MC who can help you navigate the issues around holidays and other times when you can't avoid family so that you can have peace and not be slammed by their rudeness.
Zolotas posted 6/28/2009 15:32 PM
Thanks for the responses..and a place to vent.
Heartbroken KK, you are spot on with the defensive attitudes. I could have written the same examples out as you have...everything used to be my fault, no matter what it was. Those days are pretty much gone for me...just a bit here and there, a gentle reminder and he once again gets on with getting it. It's truly a learning process for both of us.
I realize that for him to stand up to them won't make them change. I also realize how much it must bother him when I complain about their behavior, thus, he makes excuses for them. I guess I wish he would just validate me and agree and tell me that he realizes how they are and that he can't change them, but that he will help me get through a 3 day visit with them. I need to know that he has my back in this horrible situation that I have endured for many many yrs of them beating me up emotionally and hurting my feelings.
Last night we actually had a conversation about their behavior, and more specifically, his sister. For once it was not a blow out fight. I can honestly say that this is really the only thing we have ever fought about past and present..I so hate to bring this with us into our future. We've worked so hard to get to the bottom of why he did what he did..he gets that completely and owns it all. He's worked endlessly to fix his wrongs...except this ugly issue of his family.
Our conversation last night and he actually initiated it, which is a first, was about his sister and her nastiness. He speculates that it's because she is 40+, extremely overweight, no boyfriends, no husband, no career..she's unhappy with her own life and bitter. Ok, I get that..now he does too and he got it on his own....one huge step in the right direction is that he actually see his sister as nasty and bitter towards others and we didn't have a fight about.
Suggestion of MC is good - I truly want to go..he does not as his career has him traveling a lot, his time at home he believes is better spent with me. We went to a family therapist right after d-day when I was close to the edge, almost suicidal. This therapist after a few visits pretty much told me to "get over it" and "it was only an affair"...we both agreed at that point to never return..it left a terrible taste for both of us...Geesh, he even knew that those answers were wrong.
I'm going to explore MC again.. we've made so much progress, this is our last real hurdle..it's major.
I'm thankful I only have to deal with this family twice a yr. Maybe with MC he'll be able to see and understand that his family is how they are and by disagreeing with them and supporting his wife, doesn't make him the bad son.
I see that I have a long road yet..
I'm going to stick around, lurk here at this forum. I've gained a lot and calmed internally knowing that I'm not on this journey alone. I never really knew what P/A meant or that my husb was P/A.
Thanks for all the responses..
I appreciate all of you.
dana88 posted 7/1/2009 12:04 PM
I have just started reading through this thread, and it's heartbreaking and eye-opening.
Zolotas, your ILs sound a lot like mine, including the drunk 40 yr old spinster SIL!
So, my big question is: how to get the p/a into therapy? Mine believes that there is nothing wrong with him.
texann posted 7/1/2009 18:17 PM
WOW!!!! Where do I begin. This thread describes my FWH on sooo many levels it is scary. Did not know I was in such a toxic relationship until now. Reading all of these posts has helped me become very aware of what our underlying problem is. And to think it all started with his mother (who i NEVER liked)
Get your angries out.com described his relationship with her to a T. He has been angry at her since his emotionally devoid childhood.
Thanks everyone out there who posted on this thread, you all just may have saved my sanity and my M!!!
Zolotas posted 7/1/2009 21:12 PM
So, my big question is: how to get the p/a into therapy? Mine believes that there is nothing wrong with him.
If anyone figures this one out, let me know..LOL
I thought is was me that was insane or impaired...well, I am impaired from dealing with my p/a husb and his toxic, emotionally bankrupt family.
Dana, you have a clone of my SIL? LOL..want another?
healingwife posted 7/3/2009 07:49 AM
Forgive me if this has been covered already -- I have read through only the last few pages of this thread.
Wow. So I'm reading through the posts here, and I start thinking that I have many of these characteristics. Not all, and most definitely not from a family with any control or alcoholic issues.
I also see these traits in my FWH. Again, only a few -- but most certainly some of the same ones as me.
This has actually been a major breakthrough for me as we heal and get through MC. I love my FWH and want only to continue to move forward in this amazing marriage we have built.
Has anyone else realized that it's not necessarily the WS with the PA issues, but us, too?
inconnu posted 7/3/2009 09:43 AM
Has anyone else realized that it's not necessarily the WS with the PA issues, but us, too?
yes, I've known that I had PA tendencies, due to my FOO issues.
the difference between me and WS though, is that I have acknowledged my PA shit, and worked on me to learn better ways of dealing with stuff.
heartbroken_kk posted 7/3/2009 15:22 PM
P-A behaviors can be exhibited by anyone, BS or WS.
My WS thinks I am sometimes P-A with him, and he might be right.
Consider the two words however, Passive or passivity, and aggressive, or aggression.
Passive-Aggressive behavior is different from simple passivity, where you are in a mode where you don't resist, don't lead, just let stuff happen, don't complain, etc. Being passive, not taking action when you don't have to, isn't necessarily the same as being P-A where you are hiding your true intent, your dissatisfaction, your lack of agreement, etc. You appear passive initially, but later it comes out that you were non-reactive as way of coping with something that was actually making you angry in some way but you couldn't deal with it right then, straight on. That's were the aggression comes in. P-A involves an underlying hostility, anger, stubbornness, where there is a big element of non-cooperation, non-agreement, etc.
Saying "whatever you want for dinner is fine with me" when you really don't care and really will be happy with whatever is put in front of you, and you'll just be grateful you didn't have to decide, and you'll say thanks and give a peck on the cheek when your served is passivity.
Saying "whatever you want for dinner is fine with me" when what you're really thinking is that your input won't be considered, whatever you say will only get shot down, that you really want a home cooked meal instead of going out, that you are afraid you can't afford the restaurant your partner is choosing, or you hate the whimpy thin crust pizzas she likes so much, and when your partner makes the decision you harbor resentment about the choice, eat in stony silence, drop your fork in a clatter, etc., then that is being Passive-Aggressive. You had hostility and you hid it by being passive, to avoid confrontation at that moment, but let it come out later in subtle ways that are indirect, and also, that make your partner angry with you, because you said whatever you want is fine but you didn't really mean it. And now it's not fine and your partner feels yanked around and frustrated that you're not happy when you indicated you would be. So, your partner expresses that anger when your fork hits the plate, feeling like she can't make you happy, that you're impossible to deal with, etc.
sikkend posted 7/6/2009 14:56 PM
Wow. This sounds familiar...
Sucking the life out of him
My cheating spouse says he doesn't know who he is any more since being with me, and of course blames me for being controlling as well.
I have read heartbrokenkk's posts... that really hits home:
By putting himself in the submissive role, he puts me in the dominant role. He puts me in a position where I have to manage him, I "control" him. Then he can lash out at me for being controlling, he can be angry at me for it. So he substitutes anger for a variety of underlying emotional states such as shame and low self image. The anger can be directed at ME, instead of shame being an emotion directed internally.
I find this fascinating. This could be the root of our problems... but how to get him to consider it? He has a hate on for the counsellors (all 3 -- his IC, my IC, and our MC, in a group session) who all agreed they couldn't help us any more unless he opened up, let down his defenses and looked within. He insists there is nothing more to look for, he is what he is. :(
LOL_NOT posted 7/7/2009 15:32 PM
This is a response from my very intelligent P-A partner. I thought some of you would find it interesting. I, on the other hand, have been hearing a version of this same story for years. Sometimes it is delivered with tears and sometimes delivered with anger. However I can never get a answer about "Why" and of course no behavior ever changes...so it's hard to see that my partner will ever change. Here is what was written:
I am going through a lot of emotions here. Mostly sadness. It is amazing how many times I can start to deflect when I sit in silence. Drives me nuts, but I keep bringing myself back. I am also finding solace in doing things in the yard and the house. I still fight the procrastination, but that is getting better. I am making a list of things that I see if I cannot do it right then. I find that I get sidetracked very, very easily (physically and emotionally), so to stay on track, the list helps, keeps me focused.
The emotional stuff is something else. I go through such a range in a very short time. I realize that I do not want to admit that I am angry. Even now, writing that down, I want to put in no, it's not anger, I am sad or depressed, whatever. Just not angry. Guess because I know that anger is a cover for other emotions, but in order to get to those I need to acknowledge that I am angry. Thus, the passive-aggressive behavior. Because I have not been willing to admit the anger to myself, it comes out in other ways. I have worked so hard not to be angry and it comes to this. Something I need to go deeper into--is the anger still seated in my childhood or is it stuff that has come up since? Probably both. I know that I felt helpless as a child, no control except my thoughts which is what saved me. As an adult, I know that being at the county has brought up a lot of those same feelings of helplessness, because someone else had the power of where I was going in that arena. Scary, as I know, truly know, that I am the only one who is in control of how I deal with things. You do not have any hold over WHAT I feel, no matter what is said. I have to take my power back and that is where the deflection comes from. Do I want to be responsible for myself? YOU BET!! Am I? YES, but I believe my actions and my words have shown otherwise. When I think about it, this is where the "victim" comes in, because I shut down, tune out and get small. All stuff that worked for quite awhile, but no longer does. I am not a victim, but my actions say that I am.
I worked really, really hard to be invisible, stay small and out of the way. That continued well into adulthood and when I wanted that to stop, with you, I want to be seen in this relationship, I did not know how to switch it up and it comes out as being defensive. Instead of speaking my truth, I defend myself. Then, when that creates dischord, I want to disappear again, Actually, I do disappear and this creates a vicious cycle for me. Show myself, get defensive if I am questioned or feel that I am being questioned, disappear and look like a victim. Ugly, but true.
Big, big project for me--breaking this cycle. Not sure how yet, but I will find a way. I want to be seen and there are times when I am, those are the times when everything is firing on all cylinders and I am totally present. I feel on top of the world in those times. To stay there for the bulk of time, that is when I said I need to be centered and grounded, knowing that whatever is said, I am still okay and that I can deal with it as an adult, and not get defensive or feel helpless.
Articulate yes...but no change in over 15 years. I don't believe, at this point, that a passive-aggressive person can change this deep seeded personality disorder. Just thought some of you might find the insight of interest.
Any thoughts?
sickaboutit posted 7/10/2009 08:40 AM
wow! Lightbulb moment for me... thank you 'on the rocks' This has been my whole 21 year marriage. My husband blames everything on me! he can't be without a woman, he is leaving me for someone 20 years younger. I guess I was getting too hard to control, or wasn't buying into the PA behavior anymore. I had started to withdraw just to stay out of the long and winding and mindbending conversations/fights we had. Too emotionally draining. and then he says he is having an affair because I was withdrawn, I made him unhappy, I ruined his relationships with his children, I held back his career choices, I etc etc.. I do not believe that I am responsible for everything. but, boy sometimes after these twisted conversations with him my confidence falters and I really wonder if I am at fault. It is a horrible way to live. He is now asking me to let him live in the house with me, while he has the affair so that we don't have to tell our son who is away playing football in another province. My cheating husband tells me if I really loved my son I would not tell my son that we are splitting up and that my husband is having an affair! He says I should do this out of love for my son and to 'protect' my son! really! and he thinks that I should just ignore that fact that he is seeing another woman. What????
sofresh posted 7/10/2009 09:56 AM
Thanks LOL_NOT.
Your FWH describes my STBXH's outward behaviors to a tee.
I wish I could say that was his only problem, bU I still believe he is a sociopath.
Zolotas: The family dinamic you describe is much like my STBX's.
I have alwyas sought the good in people. Ididn't care that his family was trashy and awful. I Believed his victim play. That's what Sociopaths use to get to you.
How his mom and stepdad were awful, unsupportive, demeaning, degrading. How he was sodomized, how his Bio-dad was a dead-beat, alcholoc abusive, how his first wife and 4 successive GF's cheated on HIM.
Geez the man was married once before me and tried to hold them all...was engaged at least 2.ce more.
heartbroken_kk posted 7/20/2009 13:29 PM
P-A big and small
So WH is owning his blameshifting behavior for little things, our spats about daily living, my triggers and insecurity with some of his actions, etc. For me, this is now "small stuff" and I almost don't even care any more.
We have been having some "big stuff" talks. About my ticking clock, desire to have a child, etc. WH is fundamentally opposed to change. The core of his being wants everything to be stable, predictable, as it is. Changing course is not what he wants, it doesn't matter how bad things suck at least he knows what his life is now and how to deal with it.
WH's approach to this is to dig in his heels and refuse to engage in a "what if" talk. What if we had a child? How would we work it out? Nope. Can't go there. He's "not ready". Sees all the obstacles.
I am much more comfortable with change. I can visualize a different future, can set my mind to overcoming barriers. I can change my life.
He won't have anything to do with it.
To me, this is the ultimate P-A shit and it may be the thing that kills our marriage. To refuse to engage in discussion something I very much want, to refuse to even look at possibilities, puts me in a position of being a bulldozer and running over the top of him, while he is the victim of my destruction of his life.
Instead of partnering with me in an attempt to solve the problem I have (aging ovaries), instead of looking at each challenge with me and trying to find away to meet it head on, he throws every possible reason why I can't solve the problem on top of all the others. Heaps and heaps of barriers, problems, reasons to fail.
We work too many hours. We can't afford it. He can't handle additional stress. Our marriage is in such disarray he sees no reason to bring a child into it. etc. etc. Not now. (which I know means not ever, because all he has to do is create a fight with me once a month to keep our marriage in disarray, and to keep piling work on so he's overwork and overstressed, and voila! barriers will never be removed).
Obstruction of life goals is Passive-Aggressive at its worst.
inconnu posted 7/21/2009 09:45 AM
My WH, who has well established P-A behaviors, has been "typed" by someone very experienced with the Enneagram, as a type Nine, the "Peacemaker" or the "Mediator".
My WS got typed as a Nine too. He even admitted that it was accurate, that he thought he was a Nine from the description. Yet he's not willing to admit he's P/A.
heartbroken_kk posted 7/24/2009 14:05 PM
Double MC session: 110 minutes.
My post today is a reflection on the benefits of having an extra long amount of time to work through an issue with my P-A WH.
He has so many defenses. Every justification. Every rationalization. Every nuance in how things are my fault and he's not responsible. All the blameshifting. We get started on a topic in MC and before we know it we've spent 45 minutes going round and round with working through each of his defenses and then finally, in the last 10 minutes, we start to get somewhere, peel off a few layers to reveal what is REALLY GOING ON INSIDE HIM, WHY he has these defenses. What feelings and fears are motivating him to dig in his heels, etc.
And then we have to end our session because our sessions are only supposed to be 50 minutes long.
Finally I realized what was happening, and asked MC about double sessions.
They have been SO successful it blows me away. We have time to work through his defenses and then actually TALK about the underlying concerns. We can resolve things during session instead of having to drive 2 miles down the road and pull over to talk for another 30 minutes, without the benefit of MC in the room.
So we now see MC 3 times a month. 2 times for regular session, 1 time for double session, and 1 week off.
I'm getting excited about his progress and feeling like our MC is a miracle worker.
For those of you out there trying to work through the P-A challenges in MC, please consider this, especially if you have a big issue to deal with. For us, it's been about bringing a child into our lives. HUGE issue. And he's talking about it, FINALLY.
heartbroken_kk posted 7/28/2009 10:50 AM
Wow, fabulous resource I found that describes the "Passive-Aggressive Pattern"
Excerpts from this page:
Interpersonal Behavior
Tries to please and fails
Aggression comes out in indirect ways
Sometimes agrees to do things for others and then doesnt follow through
Often feels pressure to perform, and has expectation and fear of failure, procrastination
Also passive-aggressively defeats his own inner critic, so cant discipline self
Sometimes acts out annoying behavior while not consciously knowing its impact on others.
A passive-aggressive person often makes others very frustrated while feeling bad about himself for doing this. He will often not give his partner what she wants.
hope this helps others. Please click on the link, there is a lot more there.
inconnu posted 8/6/2009 09:49 AM
What I need to do is figure out how to respond to WS when I realize he's being p/a. it's such an ingrained pattern in our marriage that we start dancing the dance without even realizing it. I need to stop that. I need to come up with some phrases or answers that put the responsibility back on WS instead of me turning into crazy person.
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Product DescriptionThe PR6-SW Carbon/alloy -XC Race frame with the Fox PR2 rear shox is a responsive, aggressive and super light race machine.
Special molding
The PR6 SW Carbon front triangle is made with a special patented technology: Shooth Whall Inside (SW). Instead of traditional carbon molding SW uses Latex hosing for molding and not plastic as normal. The result is a smooth inner tubing giving less stress, increased strength and lower weight and combined with the PR6 alloy for the rear triangle you have a very durable race machine
Frame weight
Review Options: Sorted by Latest Review | Sort by Best Rating
|Reviews 1 - 3 (3 Reviews Total)
User Reviews
Date Reviewed: May 17, 2013
Strengths: Light, easy maintenance due to simpel cartridge bearings, very good handeling, suitable for 650b!!
Weaknesses: uhmmm...?
Bottom Line:
Almost anyone can change them. Further it keeps very good contact on the ground, without the powerloss like al lot of other bikes I've rode. ( Trek, Epic, Bulls,etc) The RP2 is sufficiant for this frame and easy to exchange if needed.
Date Reviewed: April 17, 2010
Strengths: fast, light. Special looking, no one like this.
Weaknesses: None.
Bottom Line:
Expand full review >>
Duration Product Used: 6 months
Price Paid: $2700.00
Purchased At: Pronghornracing.dk
Similar Products Used: Specialized epic, ghost scandium, shark, ghost RT, Rivette F8, Giant.
Bike Setup: Sram XX, XX world cup fork., ztr whells(stans), Scwalbe Rocket Ron.
Date Reviewed: March 18, 2009
Strengths: Climbs great, like a hardtail. Handles great on downhill sections of single-track due to the aggressive head tube angles. Very lite and nimble. Shift cables run in the frame and are out of the way. I loved my Epic , but this bike even out climbs it!!
Weaknesses: So far I have not found any. with Pronghorn Racing coming from Denmark I was concerned, but when ever I have had a question I e-mailed them and they always responded promptly.
Bottom Line:
Expand full review >>
Duration Product Used: Less than 1 month
Price Paid: $1500.00
Purchased At: Twowheelogic (sponso
Similar Products Used: Specialized Epic
Bike Setup: Stans 7000 wheels,Kenda SB8 tires, Avid Juicy Ultimate brakes,FSA K-Force lite crankset, FSA K-Force lite seatpost, Magura Durin SL 100mm forks, SRAM X0 twist grip shifters and X0 rear derailleur, Easton Monkey-lite sl bars and Easton EC90 stem.
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subset: commoncrawl


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More Summit NotesSubmitted by srlinuxx on Monday 7th of February 2005 02:32:17 PM Filed under
Information Week has another story covering last weeks Open Source Summit with quotes from Linus and others on the future plans for the kernel, the patent issues, and standards. A nice read.
Night that the Lights went Out in TNSubmitted by srlinuxx on Monday 7th of February 2005 02:20:40 PM Filed under
We had about an hours down time this morning due to a fight between a 97 Ford Explorer and one of our old power poles. The pole lost. Well, actually you should have seen the other guy too - what a mess. There were splinters and glass everywhere. But our greedy electric company was their usual prompt self and got us back online in record time with little loss of revenue. I apologize for any inconvenience this must have caused. Thanks.
Did SCO end up helping Linux?Submitted by srlinuxx on Monday 7th of February 2005 06:55:53 AM Filed under
Here's a real nice article by Stuart Cohen on Businessweek Online exclaiming that SCO's legal maneuvers only made Linux stronger. It states SCO's litigation seemed to bring developers and the community together fighting for the cause. He says "we can thank SCO for helping to move Linux even faster from the fringe of the computer network to the heart of the data center."
Hackers homing in on Cellular PhonesSubmitted by srlinuxx on Monday 7th of February 2005 03:12:14 AM Filed under
This story kinda hits home for me as I now work on a computer all day for cingular wireless (formerly AT&T in our branch). I guess this is why call volume has been increasing steadily lately. Here's the full story on Reuter's slow ass site.
Linux Kernel Security is Lacking?Submitted by srlinuxx on Monday 7th of February 2005 02:35:02 AM Filed under
Seems Jason Miller is finding fault in the Linux kernel security bug fix procedure. He goes on and on about security and how security vulnerabilities are handled. Although he mentioned that Gentoo had an accessible security contact, that really didn't apply to things like the underlying kernel. You can read the rest of his article including his thoughts on how to improve the situation here on securityfocus.
ATI has released 64-Bit driversSubmitted by srlinuxx on Monday 7th of February 2005 02:28:45 AM Filed under
According to AMDZone and ATI's own site, ATI has released 64-bit drivers for XFree86 and Xorg. Here's a link the download page.
No Case - No ProblemSubmitted by srlinuxx on Sunday 6th of February 2005 06:58:03 AM Filed under
Just mount every thing on the wall! LOL Here's the discussion thread with pictures. Too funny.
2004 LinuxQuestions.org Members Choice Award Winners AnnouncedSubmitted by srlinuxx on Sunday 6th of February 2005 06:19:51 AM Filed under
Browser of the Year - Firefox (77.12%)
Distribution of the Year - Slackware (19.36%)
LiveCD Distribution of the Year - Knoppix (57.69%)
Database of the Year - MySQL (53.51%)
Desktop Environment of the Year - KDE (58.25%)
I Heard a Rumor - PCLOS 8.1 in the Works?Submitted by srlinuxx on Sunday 6th of February 2005 05:07:02 AM Filed under
A little birdie told me that an update to the acclaimed PCLinuxOS Preview 8 is in the works and possibly due out next week. Details are a bit sketchy at this time, but it seems Tom has been hard at work updating the hardware detection and mklivecd scripts. Now don't get your hopes up, but I hear it might sport a newer 2.6.10 kernel, including patches to fix a little kvm switch problem. Of course it will include all kinds of application updates and other goodies. More on this as it develops.
Mandrake's Clustering AgainSubmitted by srlinuxx on Sunday 6th of February 2005 04:49:03 AM Filed under
Mandrake is apparently joining a consortium to help the advancement of what I think of as distributed computing to the point of and what they are terming clustering. Mandrake has a some previous experience in that arena so maybe they can prove to be an asset. Here's a more in depth article on the subject. They want to harness our cpu cycles, and it sounds like for commercial purposes. Show me the money then I say. Until then, I'm looking for aliens.
This months CosmoSubmitted by srlinuxx on Sunday 6th of February 2005 04:03:16 AM
Woo hoo Gals, this months Cosmopolitan magazine is chocked full of nice tips and tricks to tantalize even the most frigid of geeks. It looks like Ashley Simpson on the cover, but more importantly are the words: The Power of Pre-sex, Beyond Kama Sutra, His Butt, and 50 Ways to Have Fun With Your Man. I can't wait to try some of this stuff on my man!!!
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50 gmail invites?Submitted by srlinuxx on Saturday 5th of February 2005 10:51:35 PM Filed under
Has anyone else noticed they now have 50 gmail invites to get rid of? I couldn't even get rid of the original 5 or 6! Well, here's a summary of this weeks google wars.
Moooore Spam!Submitted by srlinuxx on Saturday 5th of February 2005 10:46:33 PM Filed under
Spam has new way to evade security
E-mails via service providers clogging system
Yep, just what we need, more spam. Apparently they aren't as concerned with hiding from their isps as getting the mail out as they are now just sending it through their isps servers. Read the gory details here.
Linux leaders at open-source summitSubmitted by srlinuxx on Saturday 5th of February 2005 02:57:01 AM Filed under
Here's a long borin^H^Hserious story on how Linux was represented at last weeks open-source summit. I didn't read too much of it, but it might interest you hard core advocates.
Vin Diesel going soft on us?Submitted by srlinuxx on Saturday 5th of February 2005 02:42:23 AM Filed under
Have you seen the previews for Vin Diesels's new movie? He is starring in a soon to be released Walt Disney production co-starring five children! I hope all those tattoos in XXX were stick ons! Well, here's a summary of the flick and here's a shot of the promotional poster. Heck anything with Vin Diesel has got be good!
Doom3 for those with little or no PC!Submitted by srlinuxx on Friday 4th of February 2005 08:04:01 PM Filed under
Here's a story on a board game based on and entitled Doom: The Board Game. This is apparently not breaking news, but I just heard about and got a chuckle over it a few days ago. But hey, I think it might make a neato gift for those diehard doom series lovers, or those who wished they could have played doom3 but couldn't swing the hardware upgrade! Get yours here!
More BS from the Evil One.Submitted by srlinuxx on Friday 4th of February 2005 07:56:15 PM Filed under
Seems Mr. Gates is at it again with saying one thing while trying to cleverly conceal his jabs at Linux. This time speaking of interoperability amongst differing architectures while stating that doesn't mean open source as open source is detrimental to interoperability. Does that seem backwards to anyone else besides me? This is posted all over the net, but here's one reference at Betanews.
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Limping Tiger, Aching Dragon
Trip Start Aug 29, 2012
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Huang Qian has been telling me for a while that I have "renpin problems", a kind of karmic imbalance. I insisted that this was superstitious nonsense; that the little difficulties I encounter in daily life are typical for anyone who lives abroad. It wasn't until the entire universe united against us for the first four days of the New Year that I started to believe her.
As the New Year holiday is a time for rejuvenation, Huang Qian and I decided to spend our three days off immersed in nature on Huangshan, China's famous Yellow Mountain, in nearby Anhui Province. The original plan was to wake up on the first day of the New Year in Huangshan Town on the train and climb the mountain early. The next day, we'd celebrate our victory by watching the sun rise over a sea of clouds from Huangshan. Then, we'd mosey on down and see what there was to do in the area and take the bus home. After all, the bus only takes 5 hours! It was a foolproof plan to start the year on the right foot.
Planes, Trains, & Automobiles
We boarded the overnight Shanghai-Huangshan Train at 9:45 pm on December 31. We took the twelve-hour train ride to avoid paying for an extra night at a hotel. Our plan was going swimmingly. Then, I took a second glance at the tickets.
"Um, so...these tickets only take us as far as Nanjing?" I asked Huang Qian. "Yeah, we'll buy tickets the rest of the way there. We can probably get sleepers!" she assured me.
We pulled into Nanjing after midnight. We got off and ran alongside the train to the only car with space left. As we ran, we caught glimpses of lethargic passengers stretching out on their spacious bunks in the sleeper cars. I crossed my fingers that the empty car would have the same level of luxury.
We ran up to our home for the next nine hours and doubled over, winded. When we looked up, we saw at least 150 people crowded into the car...all standing.
Rather than stand for the next nine hours, we elected to find a hotel in Nanjing and take a bus the next morning.
The information desk attendant insisted that we book at least a three star hotel because any lower would be "unsafe" for a laowai like me. We climbed into our fancy three star beds for a few hours of shut-eye, confident that on the next day, the very first day of 2013, everything would somehow work out. We would be alright.
A Cold Day in Hell
After bouncing around muddy countryside roads on the bus from Nanjing for five hours, we finally started our ascent. At the bottom, I asked Huang Qian whether Huangshan was a Buddhist or Daoist mountain. Every notorious mountain in China seems to be claimed by some religion. Huang Qian wondered out loud why Huangshan, presumably China's most famous mountain, was left unclaimed.
As we climbed up, we discovered why Huangshan is neither Buddhist nor Daoist: it's evil. It is completely unsacred. Sisyphus had a more comfortable mountain climbing experience. Every time we victoriously reached the top icy step of a mountain staircase, gasping for breath, we would turn only to face an even steeper climb.
Then, the sun started to set. We found ourselves without a flashlight climbing icy stairs in the pitch black night as the air got thinner, making it colder and harder to breathe. The snow shoes I bought on the way up for 10 kuai were no use now.
As we forced our frozen legs to lift us onto the last stair to the summit, we could suddenly see every star and the moon was bright enough to light our way. We made like wise men and followed the brightest light we could see…to a mountaintop convenience store where we snacked on spicy tofu, tea leaf eggs, and corn on the cob. The shopkeeper had never seen faces as rosy and satisfied as ours.
Three Hundred's a Crowd
At five the next morning, Huang Qian and I threw on our layers, strapped on our snow shoes, and climbed for a frantic hour to catch the sunrise. How peaceful it was going to be! Just two lone friends sipping tea and eating tea leaf eggs as the sun rose over the mountain range!
We high-fived as we reached the Guangming Summit and looked around as we caught our breath. Every mountaintop as far as the eye could see was packed with the most dangerous animal we could possibly imagine: tourists.
Huang Qian fought for her sunrise photos, standing precariously on a rock and leaning on the guy in front of her, as I dealt with my first experience of altitude sickness. The hundreds of people on the surrounding mountains all started to yell and scream as the sun peeked over the horizon. I don't know what they expected, but they seemed extremely surprised.
Back at the hotel, Huang Qian and I watched her sunrise video, mostly to make fun of the tourists. As we re-watched the sunrise on her phone, Huang Qian, perhaps unconsciously, began mimicking their reaction. "Waaaaa!!! Aiyooou!!! Wooow!!!" she yelled, as I rolled my eyes.
We climbed up and down mountains, waiting in line to walk up icy stairs and down through damp caves. "Are you a foreigner?" a tourist asked me in Chinese as we waited to ascend yet another frosty staircase. "Nah," I replied sarcastically, "I'm Chinese."
Limping Tiger, Aching Dragon
Finally back in Tangkou, the town at the bottom of the mountain, we checked into our 80 kuai youth hostel. The nice family who owned the hostel suggested we check out nearby Emerald Valley, where the fight scenes from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon were filmed. Bursting with energy, we jumped into the car to explore yet another magnificent natural wonder and perhaps fight each other on top of a bamboo sea.
Jumping eagerly down from the bus, I nearly collapsed onto the ground. "I think I pulled something…or everything." The dogs were really barking. Huang Qian climbed around on the rocks in the mountain stream as I limped up the path.
An igloo would've been warmer...
Back at the hostel, we warmed our hands around Huangshan specialty dishes and steaming hot pot. We played with the owners' baby and they assured us that they turned on the heat and electric blankets in our room. With full bellies, we struggled up the three flights of stairs and opened the door, expecting fireside-like warmth.
Instead, we encountered a scene that can only be described as Dentyne Ice commercial-esque. It was colder in the room than outside. We put on our layers and climbed under the blankets. It wasn't until this 24th consecutive hour of disasters that we became hysterical. Every time we sighed, our foggy breath would curl up to the ceiling. As we laughed harder and harder, the room fogged up. Huang Qian started boiling water and filling a basin so we could warm our hands with steam.
Mary and Joseph had a better hotel experience than we did. After we'd fogged up all the mirrors and the TV, the hostel owner arrived, baby in one arm, to assure us that the heat was working. The fog from our exasperated exhales decreased her credibility.
"I can't feel…anything…anymore," I said calmly, head frozen to my frosty pillow. Huang Qian's shivers and panic came through in her voice as she begged a nearby Shanghai-style hotel to send a car to rescue us from our igloo. "Is your heat working over there?" she stammered.
The front desk people at the Ala Shanghai Hotel giggled as we rushed in. One amused hotel worker came to the room to turn on the heat for us. We were easily pleased, giddy even. "Look! They have two whole blankets on each bed!" "There's a shower! A real shower! With hot water and everything!"
Later in the evening, Huang Qian posted glorifying comments about the hotel on Weibo, China's twitter-like microblogging service. The hotel answered back immediately, knowing exactly who was leaving the comments. "We're glad you like the working heat and that the shower was hot. Let us know if you need anything!" Our saviors!
Driving in a Winter Wonderland
After a delightful snoozefest, Huang Qian and I went to catch the bus back to Shanghai. "I have a bad feeling about this," warned Huang Qian. "Don't worry! It'll be fine!" It was a straight 5 hour trip back to Shanghai. Even my renpin problems couldn't possibly stop us now!
The snow started to fall as we rattled through the mountain passes. I grinned at the beautiful winter scene. My face started to fall as the snow kept falling. For hours. Soon, we were in the middle of a full-blown blizzard with a driver who insisted on driving so slow bicycles were passing us.
I wish there were a four-character Chinese saying similar to what my dad writes in the "comments" section when ordering pizza: "drive fast, take risks".
As the five hour drive turned into a six hour drive, then a seven hour drive, I added Chinese flashcards on my phone's dictionary app. I really have disaster, bad luck, and severe weather vocabulary covered at this point. The driver was lost. He called information and stopped to ask directions. We pulled Greyhound U-turns at three different closed highway entrance ramps. I woke up after 9 hours and looked out at the Pacific Ocean from a dirt road. "If he takes us to the airport, I'm buying a ticket to Kansas City so I can eat some of my mom's spaghetti," I swore to Huang Qian, in a daze. She wanted to go back home to Leshan.
At 1am, after 12 hours on the bus, we reached the outskirts of Shanghai. Even more hysterical than we had been in our igloo, we happily pointed out the Shanghai skyscrapers we had been so eager to leave just three days before. "You know what?" I said to Huang Qian as we reached the station. "I think I might have renpin problems."
Second Chances
Luckily, as it goes with New Year celebrations in China, I'll get a second chance. This is the year of the dragon, same as the year I was born. That means, according to my Chinese friends, that I'll have bad luck unless I wear red underwear all year, which I don't. However, on February 10th, I'll be with my wonderful parents in Beijing. We'll make jiaozi with the family that owns the hostel and watch the fireworks from the rooftop. This dreaded year of the dragon will finally be over and maybe, just maybe, my profound bad luck will turn around.


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Vennligst vent...
Blekk & Toner guide
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Town Square
Saint Raymond BBQ Review
Original post made by Nimpa Nunn, Menlo Park: Downtown, on Sep 27, 2007
Saint Raymond's recent back to school BBQ event provided an opportunity for families to gather and gear up for the coming academic school year. An estimated 500 people attended this year's gathering and shared memories of year's past and aspiration's for the coming year. The food was a hit in large part due to the support of members St. Raymond's mothers and the generous support and donations provided by Goldilocks in Daly City owned by the Yuzon family, Sigonas, Safeway stores in M. P., Woodside and Redwood City, Trader Joes in M.P., beverages provided by Adinas and Costco. This years BBQ not only provided delicious food to those who were there but was also able to generate funds that will go toward existing school programs. The kids really enjoyed the activities provided including two large jumpers, face painting and hair beading. Many thanks to everyone who contributed to making this year's BBQ such a special event.


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The Key to Creating 18,000 New Canadian Jobs
Just because a person says something over and over doesn't mean it's true. Take, for example, the assertion that Canada should put the pedal-to-the-metal in the oil sands because the economic benefits outweigh the environmental costs.
As a report released today shows, that argument simply is not true. We don't need to choose between a healthy economy and a healthy environment. And doubling down on the oil sands isn't the best way to approach either.
The oil sands are an economically risky endeavour and, in addition to the environmental impacts, there are a number of downsides to relying so heavily on a volatile commodity. Moreover, investing our money in renewable energy and energy efficiency would create many more jobs, and reduce pollution.
For a concrete example, we looked at the $1.3 billion in taxpayer money our federal government currently hands to the oil industry in the form of subsidies. We asked: what if, instead of subsidizing polluters, the money was invested in industries that cut pollution?
We crunched the numbers and found that $1.3 billion invested in renewable energy or energy efficiency could create between 18,000-20,000 jobs. In comparison, that same amount of money invested in oil and gas would yield less than 3,000 jobs. That's a difference of 17,000 jobs!
Our conclusion: Clean energy investments yield more bang for our buck (which is why we called the report that.)
If this seems surprising, it may be that the oil industry's PR strategy is working.
But these numbers are in keeping with international trends, as countries around the world are weaning themselves off fossil fuels and moving towards clean, renewable energy. In 2011, $280 billion was invested in renewables around the world. Globally, over a trillion dollars have been invested in green energy since 2004. Last year also marked a major milestone as investments in electricity from renewable sources topped similar investments in coal, oil and natural gas for the first time.
Thanks to all this, employment in renewable energy is booming. Some 5-million people are now employed in renewables globally, more than double the number employed in 2006. This growth occurred through the recession, and continues today, even as other industries struggle in the wake of the global economic crisis.
The prospects for renewables look bright, too. According to the International Energy Agency, renewable energy will top coal as a primary source of electricity by 2035.
Canada can and should work to capture a larger share of this market. The National Roundtable on the Environment and Economy estimates Canada could have a $60 billion domestic market in low-carbon goods and services, which would create 400,000 jobs. But that's not where we're headed at present.
Our fevered commitment to oil is leading Canada in the wrong direction. In an effort to pave the way for oil sands expansion we rolled back environmental legislation at home. And our zeal for oil is also behind our performance at international climate talks, where Canada has repeatedly been singled out as a bad actor.
The oil and gas industries accounted for around $65 billion of economic activity in Canada annually in recent years, or slightly less than 5 per cent of GDP. Source: Canada Energy Research Institute
Canada exported some 12,000 cubic metres of oil per day in 1980. By 2010, that number had grown to 112,000 cubic metres daily. Source: Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
Canada refined 300,000 cubic metres daily in 1980; in 2010, that number was slightly down, to 291,000, even though exports of oil had grown tenfold in that time. Source: Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
Despite talk by the federal government that it wants to open Asian markets to Canadian oil, the vast majority of exports still go to the United States -- 97 per cent as of 2009. Source: Natural Resources Canada
Canada's proven reserves of 175 billion barrels of oil -- the vast majority of it trapped in the oil sands -- is the second-largest oil stash in the world, after Saudi Arabia's 267 billion. Source: Oil & Gas Journal
One-third of Canada's oil sands bitumen stays in the country, and is refined into gasoline, heating oil and diesel. Source: Natural Resources Canada
Despite its reputation as the undisputed centre of Canada's oil industry, Alberta accounts for only two-thirds of energy production. British Columbia and Saskatchewan are the second and third-largest producers. Source: Natural Resources Canada
Alberta' government will reap $1.2 trillion in royalties from the oil sands over the next 35 years, according to the Canadian Energy Research Institute.
Thanks to improvements in energy efficiency, and a weakening of the country's manufacturing base, oil consumption in Canada has had virtually no net change in 30 years. Consumption went from 287,000 cubic metres daily in 1980 to 260,000 cubic metres daily in 2010. Source: Source: Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers
The National Energy Board says oil and gas employs 257,000 people in Canada, not including gas station employees. And the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers says the oil sands alone will grow from 75,000 jobs to 905,000 jobs by 2035 -- assuming, of course, the price of oil holds up.
If Canada's tarnished reputation isn't enough to provoke our country to change tacks, hopefully understanding the economics will.
Increasing our dependence on the oil sands isn't a smart economic strategy. And if we carry on down this road, we could be left high and dry. Oil sands need high prices to be profitable, but high prices are not a sure thing. Oil is a volatile commodity, and prices swing up and down and all around.
Just last week, reports of America's newfound oil provoked questions about whether the U.S. -- traditionally the largest buyer of Canadian oil -- would have any future demand for our product. It also raised questions about continued high prices for North American oil, and a drop in prices would threaten the entire oil sands undertaking.
And as we increase our reliance on oil, we increase our exposure to this volatility. We saw a glimpse of what this could mean just last week when both the Alberta and Federal governments said they won't be able to balance budgets as quickly as planned because of low oil prices.
The good news is that there is an alternative, one that is better for our economy and our environment. And the better news is that Canadians have a history of making good choices when faced with tough decisions. We'll make the right choice this time, and looking back, we'll be glad we did, and glad that Canada is on the right side of history.
Follow Keith Brooks on Twitter: www.twitter.com/keithdbrooks


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Intel: Nice Dividend, But Costs Could Slow Buybacks, Says Bernstein
Bernstein Research chip analyst Stacy Rasgon today advises investors not to be swayed by Intel's (INTC) rich dividend yield above 4%, arguing that the capital intensity of chip manufacturing may tend to slow the rate of capital returns in coming years.
Rasgon, who has an Underperform rating on Intel shares, and an $18 price target, made the case earlier in the week that Intel faces mounting costs for chip manufacturing, and today continues with that theme.
On the one hand, investors are rightly enamored of Intel's payout ratio, he writes:
Investor pushback to our Intel thesis typically centers on cash return, with a rich dividend yield (>4%) as well as a strong history of repurchases. On the surface, we would not argue against this. Indeed, Intel has one of the highest dividend yields that can be found today among large US tech companies (Exhibit 1). Over the last 12 months they have paid out more than 50% of their FCF in dividends (Exhibit 2), higher than their current target of ~40% but again, among the highest of its tech peers. LTM dividends equated to ~40% of net income (Exhibit 3). Additionally, Intel has repurchased over $80B in shares since 1998 (though interestingly, >80% of their current market capitalization). And, the company has reduced basic shares outstanding by ~25% over this time period.
On the other hand, Rasgon believes with rising capital expenses, cash flow won't be enough to continue to pay the dividend and also cover share repurchases, and he doesn't think borrowing more is a great option for a company with lagging top-line growth:
Intel's FCF has been increasingly pressured over the last few years by a combination of rapidly accelerating capital expenditures, coupled with a stagnating demand environment. Currently, we forecast Intel's FCF as % of revenue to decline to ~10% in 2013, the third consecutive year of decline and reaching the lowest level in company history, excluding the bursting of the tech bubble in 2001.Intel has borrowed to fund excess buybacks for the last 2 years. However, while we believe Intel's cash flow from operations remains sufficient to fund capex and dividends, we are reaching the point where buybacks can no longer be sufficiently covered by the company's cash generation. Further balance sheet leverage (whether by draining cash on hand or more borrowing) will now be a necessity to fund buybacks of any substantial magnitude. While Intel's pristine credit rating has enabled them to borrow funds at extremely attractive rates, leverage works best when a company is growing (as Intel has not). And, borrowing to fuel buybacks has reduced net cash balances to < $5B (including trading assets and marketable long-term securities), the lowest level since 1995, and a stark contrast from only a few years ago when net cash exceeded $20B.
The consequence is a lower "coverage ratio" than other techs, he said: "Intel's gross cash on hand is sufficient to cover 4 years of dividend payments at current levels; net cash on hand can fund only ~1 year, levels well below many technology peers," with companies such as Oracle (ORCL) having coverage of 12 years of dividends by net cash, and Apple (AAPL) similarly having 14 years of coverage.
The consequence will likely be smaller dividend increases and slowing of buybacks, he thinks:
We expect further share buybacks will therefore need to be accompanied by increasing leverage, whether via draining cash on hand, or more borrowing. While Intel certainly has more capability take on debt, levering a tremendously capital-heavy business in a cyclical environment is not sustainable forever, particularly in the absence of growth. We note that share buybacks have fueled a non-trivial amount of EPS growth over the last few years (Exhibit 12), and it is likely the pace of buybacks will slow going forward.


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A motorcycle nerd. A person who is obsessed with motorcycles, motorcycle culture, gear, mechanical design, styling, etc. This person usually rides motorcycles extensively, has posters covering their walls, and bores others ad nauseam about anything and everything pertaining to motorcycles. A subset of motorphilia.
Jim is a real motonerd. He rides his bike 30,000 miles a year, has pictures of it on his desk, and spends more time at bike shows and riding than he does anything else.
by motonerd14 May 28, 2013


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So I made a few key mistakes in the draft last night. Specifically, in my late round selections I should have taken another #1 reciever. I panicked when all of the good RB were going off the board so I chose McGahee instead of another #1 reciever. Tory Smith would be a good bench player but I think have to start him now. I'm thinking Shonn Green was a mistake but he may be the only thing the Jets have working on their O and because they don't do the running back by committee thing he should get a ton of carries right? Other than Wilson and Moss, I'm thinking that my bench is weak. Here is my team as of now...
Tom Brady, NE QB
Marshawn Lynch, Sea RB Q
Willis McGahee, Den RB
Victor Cruz, NYG WR
Torrey Smith, Bal WR
Vernon Davis, SF TE
FLEX - Shonn Greene, NYJ RB
Giants D/ST D/ST
Sebastian Janikowski, Oak K Q
David Wilson, NYG RB
Ryan Fitzpatrick, Buf QB
Brandon Stokley, Den WR
Martellus Bennett, NYG TE
Eddie Royal, SD WR P
Rueben Randle, NYG WR
Santana Moss, WAS WR
Dallas Clark is still availiable. Should I dump Randle (love him but not this year) and pick up Clark? Sould I start Clark, Wilson or Moss instead of Greene? Any other ideas/suggestions?


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I was hoping to buy an ESB flightsuit but we all know its expensive. Some people here do amazing work and they are worth it.
My question is: If I were to attempt to make my own ESB flightsuit - is there a Dickies coverall that could be used as a base? What about a color that is close?
WOF has these great templates for the pockets. I have access to a sewing machine and someone who will help me through the process.
I know I would have to buy a long and short sleeve coverall. That way I could have the long sleeves done already and the extra material from the 2nd suit could go to make the pockets
Then I could then use my cash for purchasing a vest.
Any suggestion? Thanks!


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