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Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by nubka, Jun 12, 2012.
Got some here we could export.
No kidding.
Adding to what agalisgv said, I have a pool in my backyard. The yard is pretty inaccessible to young children. All the walls are at least six-feet high, plus have high trees and bushes that would be extremely diffcult for anyone to get through. From the driveway, you would have to go through two gates, each with latches that are five-feet off the ground.
When I bought my house, the pool came with a mesh fence. It is a complete eyesore. The pool is a very unusual shape and dominates my small backyard so having a four-foot high fence surrounding the pool basically means you look out my windows and see the mesh fence. Still, I have left the fence up. However, one piece tore and I cannot find a matching piece (the fence comes in parts that each have three mesh screens and must fit the existing holes poured in the concrete). A new fence would probably cost at least $1,000.
The other thing about the fence is that opening it up to actually use the pool is a bitch. you have to force the fence out of one of the holes (it doesn't have a gate). Some of the newer fences have "gate" pieces, but those pieces alone seem to run more than $300.
Given that I have no children, none of my family members or friends bring children to my house, and it is virtually impossible for a child to access my yard, I don't see why a pool fence is necessary. According to the CDC, between 1999 and 2007, the rate of swimming pool drowning deaths was 0.3 per 100,000. That is 3 out of 1 million. The Consumer Product Safety Commission's 2010 report indicates that there are about 4,200 submersion "incidents" annually in the US, with about 385 deaths among children under the age of 15. Appoximately half of the incidents and 3/4 of the fatalities occur at private residences as opposed to public facilities. Of the fatalities, 46% occurred at the victim's own home and 22% occurred at the home of a family member or friend. Only 5% of the deaths were reported as occurring at a neighbor's home.
From that data, I think the odds of one of my neighbor's children entering my yard and dying in my pool is .00000015 or 1.5 out of 10 million. I think I have better odds of being killed by lightning.
Agree with it all. My six foot privacy fence which is locked is sufficient. I am not going to put up an ugly screen around my pool, too. I am assuming if someone's special snowflake can scale the six foot fence, no need for one around the pool because they would get around it as well. If it's toddlers wandering about and falling into pools, would they not be more likely to be hit by cars? People need to be responsible for their kids, not legislate others who don't have kids to make their PRIVATE property kid proof.
Seriously. Likewise, if your little Poopykins is left unattended on the side of the road to crawl under my electrobraid fence that's legally marked (electrified fencing is required to have signs something like every twenty feet or so), how is it my fault you can't be bothered to keep track of your child?
Sadly with horses it's often the "parents" (if one can call them that) who will tell the kid "Oooh, look at the horsies! Go pet the horsies!" Ignoring the electric fence, padlocked road gate, and "posted-no trespassing" signs.
The neighbors behind us where I grew up had a pool. We were allowed to come over and go swimming if we asked and our Mom was there to supervise. It would never have occurred to me to just wander over on my own.
Well, if you look at the original article, the kids were on the property with the caretaker, not just 'wandering in'.
I hoestly think that if you have little kids on a property with an unfenced swimming pool, you need to pay attention. I don't think that is too much to ask.
For any pool easily accesible (no fenced property) I can see the argument, but if the pool is on a private, fenced lot, I don't see why you would need the fence.
The thing is - sadly, no matter how you try, you can't protect people from thier own stupidity, and you can't protect kids from their parents stupidity. There are so many bad choices you can make while having your kids around - only hope is to keep parents informed.
btw - as an aside - this summer we will be staying at my in-laws summer house, which has a small water feature (pond, about 30 cm deep?). Any good ideas about how to temporarily fence it off or otherwise close it so we don't have to hawk over our 16 month old? Considering getting some cheap wooden boards and place on top?
If I had young children on my property, most definitely I would have a fence. I was responding to the laws requiring fences because pools could be an attractive nuisance that entice neighborhood children. I'm grandfathered at the moment from a fence law, but I may be required by law to have one if I remodel the pool.
Oddly, the law does not apply to pools in apartment complexes or any residences other than single-family homes (e.g., duplexes).
In that case, the fence uses the house as one of its sides, preferably with a door that beeps when it is opened. That's what I did with my pool.
The issue is restricting access to the pool, not blocking it off completely. There are reasonable precautions that can be taken without ruining the aesthetic of the pool area.
Now if you live miles from your neighbors and own several acres surrounding the pool plus you never allow children on your property, I would concede that you could skip the fence.
In many cases it is your homeowner's insurance company that requires the fence, regardless of local law.
Pool fences are not the answer, watching the kids you are responsible for is.
Sounds like grandma/housekeeper is to blame, get off the phone and watch your kids.
JMHO, but I don't see how a kiddie gate of any design wouldn't ruin this pool's aesthetic.
If you don't have kids and your property is fenced, you aren't in need of those precautions. It's like requiring every car to be outfitted with a baby car seat whether you have a child or not. Not everyone needs one, and those that do should take responsibility for getting one without having to legislate everyone in the country having one too.
Since that home is in CA, which has a pool safety law, I'd assume it meets the requirements already.
For this pool I would recommend electric eels.
So if tresspassers die of pool-related causes other than drowning, all is well?
If the goal is to keep children and others out of the pool without spoiling the landscape with a fence, then how about picturesque visible threats outside the pool that will scare folks away before they get there?
Attack dogs? Attack swans? Scantily clad models with designer assault weapons?
And apparently she didn't even realize where they were until the family got home. Small children left to run amok get into trouble. Wasn't the pool's fault.
Ron Jeremy sipping mai tais in a Speedo could work, too.
You need more than just a fence surrounding the yard/property, you need a fence surrounding the actual pool. Otherwise, a child could just slip out the back door and have full access to the pool.
Why wouldn't you be hawking a child that age? My grandparents had a brook on their property that, in certain places, was deep enough for a child to become completely submerged, and it also had a dam and a 15-20' waterfall about 60' from the back of the house. Some times during the year, you could walk right across on the stones; other times (Spring thaw) it was rushing fast and deep enough that it could sweep a small child right off their feet. Between 1959 and 1970, there were ten grandchildren coming to visit between the ages of 10 years and 16 months, and you can bet damn straight that my grandparents, aunts, uncles, and my own parents (the youngest 2 kids were my older brothers) were "hawking" all those kids so they wouldn't fall in. I myself was "hawked" by my parents, other adult relatives as well as my cousins, who are 7 to 15 years older than I am. Guess what, none of us either drowned or had a near-drowning.
I'm 52 years old with three children. I read all the parenting magazines, took swimming lessons myself and for my kids, and I've taken multiple first aid courses, and I DID NOT KNOW THIS until someone posted this link (Drowning Doesnt Look Like Drowning) on Facebook last year.
I sent the link to all my colleagues at work who have children.
I think the stiff incline is more of danger than the pool in that house. And those endangered would more likely be drunken socialites than children.
I can't get the link to open, but the law in California requiring fencing for the pool itself only applies to pools that are built or remodeled after 2007.
I don't know why people expect parents to watch their kids every darn second. My parents were strict as all get out (hello, Asian!), but I wasn't watched every darn second.
Anyways, I have no real opinion on this but the pool in my condo building is outdoors and is surrounded by a glass fence and trees. It's actually quite pretty.
This home was built in 2007 so may be grandfathered. It is an 11,000 sq ft place that cost over $34M to build and is now for sale for $19.3M - hardly an example most of us can relate to as far as landscaping a pool and worrying about the aesthetics of a fence.
This link may work.
I didn't watch mine every second, nor did my parents do that to me. But water is different. My fil had a swimming pool, in the summer time when we were visited him, I was with my kids everytime they went outside. Both kids took swimming lessons starting at 3, wore life jackets, water wings and every flotation device going. When they were old enough and adept enough, they were on their own. And we drilled into them many rules about what you can and can't do in or around the pool. It takes a lot of work, but water is unforgiving. It only takes 3 minutes to drown. So for any of you with small kids around water, no matter if it's a mud puddle, you're on the hook. There have been 4 people drown in my area in the last couple of years, they were adults. It only takes 3 minutes to drown.
I understand why people wouldn't want to double fence their pool. It really makes it too much trouble to take care of, to use. And I don't think they should have to if they've made a reasonable effort to keep out unwanted visitors. Others have to respect it's private property. That means parents with kids have to go that little bit extra. (shrug) ymmv
I think all over Canada pools are attractive nuisances. Living in the country, you have a tendency not to fence in pools etc.
Exactly. My mother didn't watch us ever instant of the day, but if we went to the neighbor's pool, she went and watched us. When we went to the pool at grandma's apartment complex, grandma came with us and watched. If it's your own house and you have kids, having the extra fence might be sensible. If you're visiting somewhere that has a pool, best to pay attention.
And if it's a pool on private property that you're not supposed to be in, teach your kids to stay the eff out and don't let ones too young to understand wander off on their own.
not to an infininty pool they can't !
I was fortunate enough to grow up with a pool. My sisters and I had strict rules regarding the pool and pool safety. The grandchildren have these same rules. Very simple, if the rules were broken, priviledges were revoked, no exceptions. No one swims alone, no child is in the backyard unattended - ever, no bathing suit means no going on the cement surrounding the pool, under 5 must wear life jackets.
When we were small, the fence was immediately around the pool. As we aged and money was there, the fence moved outward until it eventually ended up at the perimeter of the yard. All doors leading to the backyard do have chimes. I can't speak for my sisters but it never crossed my mind to be in or around the pool without permission - it would have made for a miserable summer not being allowed to swim.
Drownings infuriate me, especially when it seems majority are from "supervisory" lapses. I understand that accidents happen but choosing to not supervise children around water is not acceptable. I always wonder if these same people would leave their children unattended in the bathtub.
Well, the infinity part is generally built in a way that you can't access the pool from that side anyway.
But I'm sure a good architect and engineer could figure out how to use tempered glass fences appropriately.
No one thinks you have to supervise every kid every minute, but the example was a 16mo old. Why would you let a toddler be outdoors with or without a pool handy & not watch them every minute?
As a child, we got swimming lessons every summer but I don't ever remember being in a pool without an adult watching until I was in my teens & then it was only if I was swimming with a buddy.
Probably. There are plenty of idiots in the world.
well, if it was my example - it isn't a pool, it is small pond in a completely fenced back yard. And if it wasn't for the pond, I don't think I need to watch him all the time, I can sit in the yard and mind my own stuff, or get in and get a glass of water. I honestly think toddlers need to explore and not be coddled.
However, I wanted to secure the water feature, since with the pond there, I would be reluctant to take my eyes off him even to read a book.
There is a difference to keeping tabs on someone in a secure place, and what you need to do in an dangerous environment, and any pool is that to a small child.


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The Best Way to Grow the Economy? Creativity
John M. Eger | Posted 01.19.2013 | Canada Business
Read More: Art Districts, Creativity, Community, Education Reform, Creative-Clusters, Commerce, Global Economy, Creativity Economy, Artssmarts, Canada Business News
Importantly, Canada and nations like America have entered a new phase in which promoting creativity and innovation represent the only option for boosting global competitiveness. Canada or any country desirous of succeeding in an interconnected world must aggressively adopt the idea that creativity is the single most important ingredient to reinventing itself.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
The Efficacy of Stellate Ganglion Block as Post-traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) Therapy: A Pilot Study
Recruitment status was: Recruiting
- Full Text View
- Tabular View
- No Study Results Posted
- Disclaimer
- How to Read a Study Record
RATIONALE: A stellate ganglion nerve block may help relieve symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).
PURPOSE: This pilot clinical trial is studying the efficacy of a stellate ganglion nerve block in veterans to reduce the symptoms of PTSD in relatively long-standing (Vietnam era) induced or relatively recently induced PTSD (from deployment in Afghanistan or Iraq as part of Operations Enduring Freedom (OEF), Iraqi Freedom (OIF), and New Dawn (OND).
Stress Disorders, Post-Traumatic
Procedure: Stellate ganglion block
Phase 2
|Study Type:
|Study Design:
|Intervention Model: Single Group Assignment
Masking: Open Label
Primary Purpose: Supportive Care
|Official Title:
|The Efficacy of Stellate Ganglion Block as PTSD Therapy: A Pilot Study
- Difference in CAPS score activity [ Time Frame: Baseline and weeks 1, 4, 12 and 26 ]
- Depression scale [ Time Frame: Baseline and weeks 1, 4, 12 and 26 ]
- Anxiety scale [ Time Frame: Baseline and weeks 1, 4, 12 and 26 ]
- Quality of life scale [ Time Frame: Baseline and weeks 1, 4, 12 and 26 ]
- Biophysical responses [ Time Frame: Baseline and weeks 1, 4, 12 and 26 ]
|Estimated Enrollment:
|Study Start Date:
|February 2012
|Estimated Study Completion Date:
|February 2013
|Estimated Primary Completion Date:
|February 2013 (Final data collection date for primary outcome measure)
Procedure: Stellate ganglion block
- Stellate ganglion blocks will be performed in a small sample (n = 12) of the local patient population that suffers from PTSD in order to replicate other preliminary findings.
- The parameters that lead to a successful treatment response will be evaluated by comparing and contrasting the results obtained in younger (n=6) OEF/OIF generation veterans versus older (n=6) Vietnam generation veterans.
- The individual difference variables that might lead to successful treatment responses will be studied by obtaining correlative measures of psychological and psychometric data and responses to standardized tests.
Research Design:
This is an open label unblinded clinical pilot case series study to determine the efficacy of stellate ganglion blockade for relief of PTSD symptoms in the Long Beach VA healthcare population.
|Ages Eligible for Study:
|18 Years to 90 Years (Adult, Senior)
|Sexes Eligible for Study:
|Accepts Healthy Volunteers:
Inclusion Criteria:
- Include significant PTSD symptoms with severe hyper-arousal symptoms.
- Clinician Administered PTSD Scales (CAPS) score, with a total score ≥ 50 needed for enrollment.
- Hyper-arousal severity identified by a high score on the CAPS D scale and a ≥ 10 beat per minute increase in heart rate during the subject's verbal recollection of a standardized version of their traumatic exposure.
Exclusion Criteria:
- Include psychiatric and medical conditions that would make patients poor candidates for an outpatient procedure.
- Subjects must be able to be cooperative for the procedure and free of significant medical problems that would pose a constant threat to life.
Please refer to this study by its ClinicalTrials.gov identifier: NCT01533610
|United States, California
|VA Long Beach Healthcare system
|Long Beach, California, United States, 90803
|Contact: Michael T Alkire, MD 562-826-8000 ext 4405 firstname.lastname@example.com
|Principal Investigator: Michael T Alkire, MD
|Principal Investigator:
|Michael T Alkire, MD
|Long Beach VA Healthcare system
|Responsible Party:
|Southern California Institute for Research and Education
|ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier:
|NCT01533610 History of Changes
|Other Study ID Numbers:
|Study First Received:
|February 12, 2012
|Last Updated:
|February 14, 2012
Keywords provided by Southern California Institute for Research and Education:
Post-Traumatic Stress disorder
Stellate ganglion
cervical plexus
local anesthesia
Additional relevant MeSH terms:
Stress Disorders, Traumatic
Stress Disorders, Post-Traumatic
Ganglion Cysts
Synovial Cyst
Trauma and Stressor Related Disorders
Mental Disorders
Connective Tissue Diseases
ClinicalTrials.gov processed this record on May 25, 2017


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At the Copa... Copacabana
Trip Start Feb 22, 2007
27Trip End Aug 22, 2007
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My earliest memory of this word was when my cousin Sue had her first date at a bar in Sault Ste. Marie called "The Copacabana". In typical Brunetti tradition, my family sang this song - cleverly altered by my Aunt Vicki - to humiliate Sue.
"At the Copa... Copacabana. Susie and Darren at the Copa... Copacabana." Repeat while dancing, until Sue gets mad.
Ok, fast forward to the present. What�s better than celebrating your birthday on the Copacabana Beach in Rio? How 'bout nothing.
Except as Steve keeps telling me, I am getting close to 30. Look on the bright side... we still have two months left before we return to Canada and exciting stops like Venezuela and Colombia. I will have some form of job when I return. And I have a mature boyfriend with his head on his shoulders and his priorities in order. Yeah right.
Speaking of his maturity, I�m surprised we didn�t receive more viewer mail about the picture of Steve�s bare butt on his photo edition. I guess it�s an unremarkable butt.
I was concerned in my last entry that this photo would exclude us from Travelpod fame. However, I just received this email yesterday (for real):
"Congratulations! Your travelogue has been selected to be featured and has been added to our queue. Please keep in mind that we typically have several months worth of travelogues queued to be featured but you will be notified when your travelogue is featured on our main page."
Finally, we�ve put those journalism degrees to good use.
Ok, let�s keep this one short, for once. I�ll just talk about the soccer game, my birthday and our "favela tour."
No trip to Rio is complete with a trip to Maracan�, the world�s largest soccer stadium. The Lonely Planet and other guidebooks endorse such a trip, but suggest going in a group and/or bringing absolutely no valuables with you. We decided to go to the game after visiting a local fair in the same area, so I chanced it by taking my camera. In non-typical fashion, we arrived at the stadium hours early to get tickets.
Good thing I took those Spanish lessons in Buenos Aires, it�s really doing a lot of good here in Brazil. To me, Portuguese sounds like Russian or some other kind of gibberish. From what we could gather from the hundreds of local police at the stadium, none of whom spoke english, there is nothing around the stadium except favelas (poor neighbourhoods). So we killed time drinking beer in the parking lot, surrounded by the local police who were there to provide security for the game.
The game was worth the wait. It was Botafogo, one of Rio�s largest clubs, vs. Nautica, a small club likely about to get creamed. Still, Botafogo�s fans turned out in droves. You would have thought it was a Finals match, especially given the large number of firecrackers.
The biggest excitement of the game was Nautica�s only goal, one of the biggest flukes that I�ve ever seen. For your viewing pleasure, I found the play on Youtube.... http://youtube.com/watch?v=YIizaqbwg38
This goal stunned the Botafogo fans for a few seconds, then fired them up further. The result was two more Botafogo goals in quick succession, ending in a score of 3-1. (See, I could write sports highlights too)
(Sidenote: I�m sure this had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he himself has always wanted to ride in a helicopter and was excited to cross it off his list of adventurous things to do in his life)
Regardless of his motivation, the ride was breathtaking. We went just before sunset, and the highlight was circling the Christ the Redeemer statue. The ride lasted 13 minutes but it felt like only 5 minutes. Riding in a helicopter was very smooth, very loud and very fun.
I think it�s funny that we�re both ducking in the photo in front of the helicopter. The noise was so loud that we thought our heads might get cut off, when in reality, you can�t even see the propellers in the photo.
We enjoyed sushi for dinner, then went to Lapa for some samba in the evening. It was a great birthday, and as Steve will likely point out, one of the most expensive days ever.
When I heard about people taking "favela tours" (i.e. a guided tour through the poorest neighbourhoods of Rio), I couldn�t decide if I thought it sounded interesting or voyeuristic. I mean, if I was poor, would I want busloads of rich tourists riding around my neighbourhood gawking and taking pictures of my life?
In the end, my interest outweighed my misgivings, mainly because of a recommendation from our hotel to go with a specific company that gives the social context of the situation. Also, because I really liked the movie "City of God" and wanted to see if it was an accurate portrayal of life in the favelas. (If you haven�t seen this movie, go out and rent it. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0317248/ )
Our guide Christina told us that this movie was an accurate reflection of favelas, where druglords make the rules and people follow them. Almost 20% of Rio�s population lives in a favela. We went first to Rocinha, the biggest of Rio�s 750 favelas, and were told not to take pictures out of the window, just in case we accidentally took a picture of one of the "soldiers", the young look-out boys. They were easy to pick out because while the streets were full of busy people, they were the only ones standing still. An average worker on minimum wage in Rio makes R$350 a month (about US$175)... these boys made $R800 a month.
We saw the favela from above, a crowded mix of buildings covering a sloping hill with houses built upon other houses built upon other houses. Our guide explained that the favela is also full of working class people, not just druglords. The people don�t pay taxes or pay for electricity (take a look at a typical electrical box on the street) and live in close proximity to the places they work, such as the main beaches of Copacabana and Ipanema. The close proximity of the favelas and the fancy beaches is one of the big contradictions of the city, which has the biggest disparity between rich and poor in the world.
We were told that it is forbidden for the people of the favela to steal from tourists, since it attracts police attention. While I felt safe walking on the streets during the day - Rocinha really felt like a small city within a city - I�m not sure that I would test this theory at night.
We also went to a smaller favela, Vila Canoas. Here, an Italian family sponsors a small school for about 100 kids. In Brazil, public school only lasts for half of the day, so for the other half, many poor families send their children to beg for money on the streets. Or, they become mixed up with the drug culture. The top private school costs R$4000 per month, impossible for those who make R$350 per month. This school, supported by the Favela Tour, occupies the kids for the other half of the day with classes, activities, snacks, a new computer room and even some scholarships. There were lots of smiles here.
The kids also sold crafts they made. Natalie, these kids have mastered the magazine products! (No purses like yours, though). Steve was touched by the experience, so he reached into his heart and his wallet to buy a pack of homemade cookies.
�I just wanted to make a difference,� he said, as he quickly crammed them into his mouth. I�m surprised he didn�t ask if they sold any milk.
All in all, it was a very rewarding experience, especially interacting with the kids at the school. If you�ve stumbled upon this blog and are thinking of taking a favela tour, I would strongly recommend this Marcelo Armstrong�s company. If you want to learn more about the non-profit that runs the school, their website is below
Tour... www.favelatour.com.br
School... www.parati.inf.br
According to local news reports, the City of Rio has created a program in which city residents can rent rooms in their homes to tourists for the upcoming Pan American games, set to start in Rio in July. Mostly in response to the high costs of hotels in the main tourists areas, it will be available in different areas of the city... including the Vila Conoas favela that we visited. That would be an interesting story, following the tourist through their experience in a favela!
While in Salvador, we saw some amazing demonstrations of Capoeira, a form of fighting/dance that originiated in northeastern Brazil. I did not actually take part in this, just the photo op. I did film two videos for you, to get an idea of what this dance looks like. It looks even more amazing in person.
Tease for Steve�s upcoming entry: he�ll talk about the "eye candy" on Rio�s beach, his experience hang-gliding off a cliff and Brazilian waxes.
We�re now in Maceio, Brazil. We�re staying with Leaf Rapids� other exchange student from 10 years ago, Victor. Both our dreams have been realized. Me - over 100 beaches. Steve - cheap shrimp and crab. Will we ever leave?? We�ll have another entry soon.
Happy Canada Day!


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Home › Forums › Gear Forums › Gear (General) › WIndshirt Vs. Rain jacket
Apr 25, 2013 at 6:00 pm #1302199
I will be hiking the PCT this year. Normally I do all of my running in a wind shirt, and never wear a rain coat. With regards to hiking the PCT, I feel like it is HIGHLY advisable that I use a rain jacket for the sierra and Washington. I will be using the outdoor research helium, but its very much like a traditional rain jacket thats not the least breathable.
My question is would it be better to bring both, or just the raincoat? Or just the windshell. I could also bring a raincoat for certain portions of the PCT but would like to avoid this if possible
Thanks in advanceApr 25, 2013 at 6:16 pm #1980580
Stephen MBPL Member
@stephen-mLocale: Way up North
I always bring a Windproof and waterproof with me but others may differ.Apr 25, 2013 at 7:38 pm #1980602
Eli ZabielskiBPL Member
@ezabielskiLocale: Boulder, CO
What about getting an umbrella and using your windshirt with that?Apr 26, 2013 at 9:24 am #1980740
Dustin ShortBPL Member
Between the Helium II and a stoic wraith windshirt, I bring both. Together I'm right at the 8oz mark which is less than my winter hardshell and MUCH more versatility and comfort.
If you have a stiff long sleeve shirt for solar protection (like an old dress shirt) you could probably use that as a windshirt with more breathability than a traditional windshirt. But i'd still bring both.Apr 26, 2013 at 12:08 pm #1980801
Eric BlumensaadtBPL Member
@danepackerLocale: Mojave Desert
I'd take only an eVent rain parka, mainly for safety.
I have an XL REI Kimtah to fit over my down sweater. Light enuf & good price W/ 20% off sale.Apr 26, 2013 at 2:16 pm #1980827
Nathan WattsBPL Member
I would carry both
I think of a rain jacket as mandatory gear for multi-day trips, whereas a wind jacket is a bit of a luxury. It's purpose is primarily for comfort. My rain jacket is a form of safety gear.Apr 26, 2013 at 6:43 pm #1980911
Kate MagillBPL Member
…if you have it. I agree with Eric that having a comfortable, breathable shell eliminates the need for a windshirt in most environments, and you'll be more comfortable when it does rain all day. But if you are happy and comfortable with what you've got, then why not take both–your weight will still be lower than the average rain shell.
Your system will work great. I might worry about the durability of the 2.5-layer Pertex Shield on a thru, but OR has a lifetime guarantee, so in a pinch they should be willing to give you a new jacket.
What are you using for your legs?Apr 26, 2013 at 7:11 pm #1980919
I think I'll bring both. The reality is, that for 9 oz I'll have a lot of flexibility for wind/rain if I bring both.
@eric, Thanks for the advice about event. Unfortunately my budget, and weight consciousness negates that as a choice. the jacket you suggested weighs 15 oz, and i'm at 9 for both jackets.
I'll be carrying windpants for my legs.
My other question is just short sleeve, long sleeve, or both?
for clothing:
Running shorts
short sleeve
long sleeve
montbell ex light
montbell tachyon
OR Helium
goilte windpantsApr 26, 2013 at 7:28 pm #1980925
Paul MagnantiBPL Member
@paulmagsLocale: Front Range Zoo
I am a big proponent of a long sleeve shirt for high altitude and desert/dry hiking. Sun protection, bug protectiion and the long sleeves help create your own microclimate in the hot, dry climate.
I personally find short sleeves are good for day activities, but I do not like sunscreen for multiday activities hence the long sleeves.Apr 26, 2013 at 7:47 pm #1980930
Jeff JeffBPL Member
In the past I would have said just take the lightest eVent rain jacket you can find. It's close enough. However, if you really hike in it all the time, your sweat will affect the breathability.
I recently switched to a helium and a houdini. I find it's rare that I need a rain jacket in the summer in Washington, but I sure would not go out without one. You carry a couple more ounces, but you get the best of both worlds.Apr 27, 2013 at 6:31 am #1980996
big ups on the advice. I hate sunscreen, and would much rather wear long-sleeves. I've only recently come around on the idea of headwear, so will be bringing a visor and bandana. i appreciate everyones input.Apr 27, 2013 at 8:48 am #1981018
Tim DrescherBPL Member
@timdcyLocale: Gore Range
All personal preference here and the opposite approach (for me) is to bring a sole rain jacket, which also happens to be the OR Helium II, along with a short sleeve synthetic shirt and my Stoic Hadron down sweater (mostly for camp). Sunscreen doesn't bother me. I can welcome a tan :D
The only conundrum I have is that when I'm hiking through rain in warmer weather, the rain jacket becomes of course, too warm… which doesn't really happen all that often.Apr 27, 2013 at 10:04 am #1981027
Nick GatelBPL Member
@ngatelLocale: Southern California
"I recently switched to a helium and a houdini. I find it's rare that I need a rain jacket in the summer in Washington, but I sure would not go out without one. You carry a couple more ounces, but you get the best of both worlds."
When I need a wind shirt, I need it for several hours… otherwise I would just grin and bear it for a while. Sometimes you have to forget the fixation on multiple-use and the lightest weight. Function rules. So I bring a wind shirt and rain protection as two separate items.Apr 28, 2013 at 12:37 pm #1981319
Ken BennettMember
@ken_bennettLocale: southeastern usa
I've thought about this too, in the context of summer hiking in the Southern Appalachians. A rain shell keeps me warm, but I get soaked inside from sweat. Bring the shell, or just rely on my wind shirt for protection in the rain? It's been raining heavily here all day, with steady temps at 60F. So I did my daily walk wearing my UL windshirt over a short sleeve wool base layer, nylon shorts, hemp Tilley hat, mesh trail runners, and Darn Tough light crew wool socks.
My head was dry and happy. My feet were wet but happy. My shorts did a reasonable job of not wetting through, but I can see that after a couple hours of rain they would be soaked – so I will continue carrying my rain skirt.
The wind shirt failed. It wetted through within a few minutes, and after that my arms, hands, shoulders and (soon) my torso were wet and very cold. Now, it's an old single layer LL Bean wind shirt, and has no DWR left at all, so it's no real surprise. However, any DWR will eventually wet through, and I'd be just as miserable even though it might take a little longer.
So the rain shell will continue to make it inside my pack, along with the homemade rain skirt. The Tilley Hat makes a nice addition, since I can see and hear much better with the hat than a hood. Also, too, I will get good sun protection — which is useful even in the summer, as I'll be in the open enough to warrant some protection. The wind shirt will make the cut based on the expected temps and weather conditions — in cold weather it's a no-brainer, but maybe not in the summer.Apr 29, 2013 at 7:42 am #1981533
Peter SBPL Member
@prseLocale: Denmark
I bring both – definitely! The comfort in a windshirt is SOOOOO much higher, no waterproof membrane can even begin to match a good windshirt.
Set the sweat free!!
If there's a chance for rain, bring a rain jacket.
If it's a very light, (cheap perhaps?) rainjacket, you could even bring a nice light umbrella too. (Golite makes one)
all 3 items can be lighter than one normal 3 layer shell jacket.Apr 29, 2013 at 9:30 am #1981581
Dale WambaughBPL Member
@dwambaughLocale: Pacific Northwest
Windshirts should be thought of as a shirt with some jacket-like qualities. They should breathe well, and that negates most rain protection other than some basic DWR that can handle some light precip or dewy brush. If you are hiking for hours or days in rain, you need some real protection. DriDucks are light and cheap and breathable, but suffer on durability. You could keep a spare in your drop box and some duct tape in the pocket. From there, I would go to light 2.5 layer jackets and rain pants, or better yet, a GoLite poncho.
The poncho is just 6oz and will keep your pack and shorts dry and costs less than any 2.5 layer jacket. Add some long gaiters and you will only have a 6" area of your legs exposed. A belt of light line or shock cord will help keep it under control in exposed and windy conditions. A windshirt and poncho make a perfect combination worn together. The poncho can also be used for emergency shelter, a vestibule, rest stop rain cover and cook shelter.Apr 29, 2013 at 11:23 am #1981631
Loren BMember
@ljamesbLocale: London UK, Greenville USA
I would certainly take the helium for safety and I would suggest that you take both for comfort. A little extra weight sure, but the comfort that weight will afford you is well worth it. If you bring both, the windshirt will almost certainly spend 90% of the time on your back all the while making your trip a little bit more comfortable and hopefully making your trip that little bit more enjoyable.
Also remember that it would be part of your layering system so you may be able to lighten up elsewhere depending on the weather and your current gear.
-If you were going to bring a midlayer which is windproof, heavier windproof hat and heavier scarf, you could instead bring a lighter non windproof fleece, thin scarf and lighter non windproof hat to couple with the windshirt's zip neck and hood.
-You could take short sleeved baselayers instead of long sleeved ones since the windshirt would offer some level of UV protection and maybe wicking ability for your lower arms.
-In the rain: To get double use from your wind shirt (if it has a full length zipper), leave it unzipped and tie it round your waist. You can then do up the zip at the front and make quite an effective rain skirt. I find this works really well and could even mean you can leave rain pants at home or make your wind pants work much better in the rain.
Good luck and have a fun trip!Apr 30, 2013 at 3:02 pm #1982048
Steven McAllisterBPL Member
@brooklynkayakLocale: South West US
I carry a winshirt and a very light small silnylon cape. I usually get by with the windshirt and wear the cape only if I am getting too wet in the windshirt. I have also been known to wear my polycryo groundcloth as a rain skirt in heavy or cold rain.
The cape is very light and multi-use. A rain jacket is not.
I would say an umbrella could be a replacement for a rain shell, but there are times when you need both hands, like setting up camp.
Regarding long sleeves, I agree with Mags and others. I even wear long pants for the same reason.
You get a lot of sun on the PCT and many trails. If you wear a highly ventilated long sleeve shirt and pants with the mesh panels you can stay cool and not have to keep applying sunscreen. The weight of sunscreen can add up over time.
Long sleeve shirt and pants also helps protect against bugs.Apr 30, 2013 at 3:10 pm #1982052
Justin BakerBPL Member
@justin_bakerLocale: Santa Rosa, CA
Both. You will encounter many sunny, warm, but windy days where a rain jacket will be too sweaty and hot but a windshirt will be just right.
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text: Hopefully someone can help me out. I have a 2000 Silverado with the 5.3L engine. Recently, I have been losing coolant at a slow rate. I have had the cooling system pressure tested by a dealer and an independent mechanic and both say that there is not a pressure leak in the system. I have checked the oil and I do not see any indication of antifreeze in the oil, so I do not suspect a head gasket problem. Also, there is no visible signs of coolant leaking from the system (I see no coolant on the ground under the car and the engine compartment does not smell of coolant). So, if the pressure is good and the head gasket appears not to be the problem, where is the coolant going? I have changed the radiator cap on the surge tank, but this did not appear to help. Has anyone else seen a problem like this? I am going crazy (not to mention spending a lot of money doing pressure tests!) with this problem. Anything will heip. Thanks!


text:
Animals rescued from homeless vet
LEBANON (AP) — More than two dozen animals were rescued from a homeless veteran's car after she checked herself into a Pennsylvania VA hospital.
Humane Society of Lebanon County spokeswoman Suzanne Biever said Monday that the veteran had been living with the animals in her car since January. Her name was not released.
Biever said the woman alerted Lebanon VA Medical Center staff when she checked in Friday that the animals were in the car.
The 24 cats, all Persians and Siamese, and three dogs, two cocker spaniels and a Chihuahua-mix, were transported to the Humane Society shelter.
Biever said the veteran transferred ownership of her 27 animals to the Humane Society. They will be available for adoption within the next week.


text:
Our Work & Mission
About MAP
Founded in 2006, the Movement Advancement Project is an independent think tank that provides rigorous research, insight and analysis that help speed equality for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people. MAP's work is focused on three primary areas:
Our Audiences
MAP's work helps educate and persuade public audiences (such as policymakers, allied organizations and funders, media and the American public) and helps support LGBT movement audiences (including LGBT organizations and advocates, and LGBT funders).
- Public Audiences: by articulating the need for change and outlining solutions in a comprehensive and compelling way, MAP enables these audiences to better understand the need for change, become motivated to act, and take effective action:
- Policymakers can better understand the challenges facing LGBT Americans, feel more compelled to take action, and more effectively advocate for solutions that best achieve equality.
- Allied Organizations & Funders can gain a better sense of how LGBT issues intersect with their existing work and funding, feel more compelled to act in favor of LGBT equality, and have a better sense of how to take effective action.
- Media can better understand the issues facing LGBT Americans, feel more compelled to cover LGBT issues in ways that build public understanding, and better articulate what needs to happen to achieve equality.
- The American Public can better understand the challenges facing LGBT Americans, become more supportive of LGBT people and issues, and take greater action to achieve equality and end social stigma.
- LGBT Movement Audiences: MAP works collaboratively with LGBT organizations, advocates and funders, providing them with tools, research and resources to help strengthen their efforts. MAP also provides information and analysis about the health and capacity of the LGBT movement, helping these audiences more strategically apply and coordinate resources for maximum impact:
- LGBT Organizations & Advocates can access tools and resources that make these groups more effective, as well as benefit from sophisticated analysis that can help strengthen organizations and increase coordination.
- LGBT Funders can access analysis and gain insight on how to better apply and coordinate existing resources.
Our Logic Model
MAP believes we can help speed equality for LGBT people through the process summarized in our Logic Model diagram below: by educating and influencing external change agents, such as policymakers and media, while simultaneously strengthening the LGBT movement.


text:
Even if you get tired of it tomorrow, you're only out $5.
Thread: Florida Water edc review
bought this for $5 at shoprite in the jamaican ethnic section....very light after shower splash with a nice powdery orange floral scent,,,very mild and nice in the summer...does not project much...well worth 5 bucks
Even if you get tired of it tomorrow, you're only out $5.
I could have given it to him for free straight out of the tap.
Some day's you're the statue and some days you're the pigeon.
Florida Water is a wonderful and cheap scent, and you can sometimes find Orange Blossom Water as well. These are in the true spirit of the eaux worn by men of the 19th century.
"...her fragrance all in my keeping; softly she comes in the night." Lyrics, Gordon Lightfoot, "Softly."
Fantastic stuff for about 30 minutes...
Mark K


text:
would you link us to your info?
Some info you all may find interesting
in our 12GA FH testing and experimenting.
I'm visiting here and passing it on.Nice site here.
There are two videos of our 12GA FH on YouTube,
exploding big heavy walled plastic pails of water.
Not milk jugs , but 6 gal water in thick
plastic. with thick locked on lids........
The "Grampa's Cannon" one with a long view,
and "Grandpa's First Shot" a closeup video,
the first one, that shows how the top of heavy
shelf got bent. Later kids will do film videos showing
muzzle blast and recoil. We also have tested an
8GA FH, we made on an Enfield bolt action.
Also 3 ought buckshot from the 8ga load
goes through 2" hardwood ok. I will test
8ga on waterpail also, to see what happens. Ed
would you link us to your info?
There is no nonsense so errant that it cannot be made the creed of the vast majority by adequate governmental action. -- Bertrand Russell
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." Robert J. Hanlon
What he said
Welcome to the forum
Did I miss something?
At the risk of sounding dumb, what is "FH"?
The promise of exploding targets DOES pique my interest, though....
The experimenting is called the 12GA From Hell.
There are 2.5 year long threads on it on The Highroad
and Firingline Forums.and many others.It is a long brass 12 ga case
we setup in strong guns for great velocity, like 600gr hard lead slugs
at 2600 or more fps.Here is pic of case next to regular length 12ga plastic
case, and the plastic still fires in smae chamber. It is just a modern
version of the African 12ga paradox guns. Second pic is my
Savage 210 bolt action with heavy barrel chambered for it.Ed
thanks. That looks REALLY cool.
Here is Url for Grandpa's First Shot video-
Here is pic of NEF we also have the 12GA FH in.. Ed
ok already how do we do it?
THERE WAS SOME LINKS IN THE CALIBUR CONVERSONS AREA. i THINK hc pookie MAY HAVE POSTED THEM. BY THE WAY THEY ARE STILL CONSIDERD SHOTGUNS AND NOT DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES.
-Well with a NEF we lengthened chamber for our long brass case.
Its barrel was heavy and thick enough. added weight, thumbhole stock.
With Savage210 and other guns we used heavy barrels, added
weight.astock hollow. On all guns used thick recoil pads.Guns still can
fire shorter plastic or brass cases.
We made our long brass case by putting rims on bmg brass and
fireforming, or have Rocky Mtn Cartridge make them. We also
developed slug loads for 3" and 3.5" long plastic 12ga cases that are
much stronger than factory. We used slower powders than shotgun powders,
and are able to use a lot more, and still have shotgun type low peak pressures.
Like in NEF 3.5" plastic case, 600gr slug at almost 2100 fps. 15k psi load.
In savage with long brass case 600gr at 3000 fps using full loads
of slow rifle powder. About 30k psi load. We had some loads pressure tested
to confirm that our velocity and pressure formulas are accurate. Ed
Last edited by hubel458; 07-06-2013 at 04:25 AM.


text:
Four-star recruit Jakeenan Gant signs with Mizzou
COLUMBIA, Mo. - Effingham County High School forward Jakeenan Gant signed with Mizzou on Wednesday, making him the first member of the class of 2014 for Mizzou men's basketball.
Gant is a 6'8, 200 pound power forward from Georgia. He chose the Tigers over Connecticut, Indiana, Florida and Marquette.
"We are really excited to be adding a player of Jakeenan's caliber to our program and we have started making a recruiting name in the Southeastern Conference footprint in a short period of time," Missouri Head Coach Frank Haith said in a statement.
Gant averaged 17.9 points, 9 rebounds and nearly 4 blocks per game last year. He was named Georgia AAAAA Player of the Year last season.
"He's an outstanding young man from a great family and just has that competitive drive in everything he does, " Haith said. "He was the top player in Georgia as a junior and will keep getting better and better as he matures and adds strength. He has the ability to step out and shoot the basketball on the perimeter, defend on all levels of the court and, as he adds that strength, his offensive post game will take that next step."
Four-star shooting guard Namon Wright is expected to sign with Missouri as well, giving the Tigers two signees in the 2014 class.
Click the video player to watch highlights of Gant.


text:
The time i finally decided i was completely done reading ur posts, is when u were blaming refs in 30pt blowouts..lol Comical stuff man!
The time i finally decided i was completely done reading ur posts, is when u were blaming refs in 30pt blowouts..lol Comical stuff man!
I wish Melo would just go! I honestly don't even know why i'm posting about em anymore, as they just disgust me...
Last edited by nycsportzfan; 03-15-2013 at 06:19 AM.
I guess losing by 15 to Portland was Melo's fault too lawl.
Mood: WOOF!
Looking forward to the Knicks vs the Clippers. Should be a good game. Pulling for the upset.
i wish everyone could simply apply logic and reason to understand why the team is struggling. it's no different than last year. injuries, poor coaching and a horrible backcourt. all the things nyc loves to whine about are so far down on the list it's mind boggling that he continues to blame them for the poor play.
if i made a list of the top 10 reasons the knicks have struggled, "melo is lazy, fat, is a bad leader, not a team player, doesn't play defense etc etc etc" none of those would even make the list. yet that is all i hear from you guys. novak misses open shot after open shot... melo's fault. felton can't run an offense? melo's fault. jr takes bad shot after bad shot? melo's fault.
melo gets injured by dwight howard gooning on him but his injury is because he's not conditioned? lol. how can an nba player that played most of his career at altitude in denver not be conditioned? how can he have several games where he played 44+ minutes this year and closed the game out late not be conditioned? how does he go straight from the playoffs, to the olympics, to training camp but not be conditioned?
it reminds me of all the eli haters on this site that blame everything on him. our defense gives up like 40 points but it's eli's fault we lost. the o-line can't protect, the receivers can't get open or run the wrong routes but it's eli's fault.
i can understand the media always blaming the team's best player because they're trying to make headlines. but i would think most informed fans would know better and look at things as a whole.
i would understand pointing out melo's flaws if they kept us from going from a good team to a great team, but that is not the case.
you guys want to rebuild but i could see it now. we tank and suck for the next 5 years and all you would do is complain about how bad the team is, and how they messed up in the draft every year. then if we do land a franchise player, you guys would point out each and every fault he had and blame all the team's shortcomings on him.
lebron's cavs wouldn't even make it out of the first round in the west. even the best players need help. melo is far from perfect but he's the best player the knicks have had in a long time. i just don't see the purpose of following the team and constantly whining. if you don't enjoy watching the team and following the team, stop. pretty simple. you will not be missed.
If Melo can't lead a team to victory, then so can't Lebron or Michael Jordan. LeBron couldn't get it down in Cleveland by himself, even though he was regarded as the closest thing to MJ. The reason he went to Miami is so that he can form a big three with DWade and Bosh. 1st year? Made the finals and lost. 2nd year? Won it all, 3rd? Possible repeat. Jordan didn't get his first ring until Pippen and Rodman. So this whole "Melo can't lead his team to a championship" excuse is bull****. Who else on the team besides him can you depend on? If Durant goes down, you have Westbrook, Ibaka, and Kevin Martin. If LBJ goes down you have DWade, Bosh, and Chalmers. I could go on and on. Who does Melo have?
Mood: WOOF!
Honestly would love a draft rebuild but u are right they would probably draft Jordan Hill when there is 10 better players on the board. The only draft where the Knicks have gotten a player better then the 1 I would of picked was Shumpert and he might never be the same so I will give u that the franchise would screw that up 2.


text:
19 year old prodigy Lindsey Horan has earned her second call up to the full Women's National Team for its November 10th game against Brazil at the Citrus Bowl in Florida.
"It's incredible to be training and playing with the best players in the world again. Obviously anytime I get called in with the National Team I am so honored," commented Lindsey. "They're giving me another opportunity to prove myself and I am so grateful for that. It's also a plus to be back in my home country!!"
Horan, who is currently playing with her club team PSG in France, will make her second stint with the full national team and her first since the Algarve Cup in March where she earned her first cap. Horan is off to a solid start at PSG with 5 goals in her first seven games of the season.
"Linds is a second year pro now for a European football giant and continues to gain invaluable experience. She is in good form at the moment and if given the chance against Brazil I know she will do well," exclaimed Colorado Rush Technical Director Erik Bushey upon hearing of Lindsey's call up.
NBC will broadcast the game on Sunday at 3:30PM Eastern time. Lindsey will look to earn some play time with other forwards Sydney Leroux, Alex Morgan and Abby Wambach.
For a complete roster for the game against Brazil, please click here.


text:
It is, plainly, a good bit of public policy. Voters should know who is peddling what. And it's a shame that Senate Republicans blocked a vote on the measure — once on Monday and again on Tuesday.
But disclosure, in the end, isn't nearly enough.
There is, perhaps, no more telling indicator of its inadequacy than its strange political career. It was not so long ago, after all, that the GOP embraced disclosure as campaign finance reform lite — an alternative to calls for sharper limits on political spending.
Indeed, the Senate passed a law quite similar to Whitehouse's bill by a 92-6 margin in 2000. Fourteen Republican senators who voted for that measure are still in the Senate today; their opposition to the DISCLOSE Act was uniform.
Democrats have held firm in their support for the idea. But their trying-hard-to-sound-ethusiastic statements in support of the DISCLOSE Act acknowledge it is a de minimis response to the problem of big money in politics.
The court has crushed our democracy by unleashing torrents of corporate cash through the Citizens United decision, Congressional Democrats seem to suggest, and all we can do now is let the public know who, exactly, is buying off their leaders.
The frame, here, is all wrong.
Invoking Citizens United may be a smart bit of pr — the mere mention of the decision can get a certain breed of wonky, overeducated liberal in a lather — but the case is not the watershed that some suggest.
The truth is, big money donors have been able corrupt the political process for decades. In the 1990s, it was huge "soft money" contributions to the Democratic and Republican parties. And when the McCain-Feingold campaign finance law stamped out that practice, the money flowed into independent political groups — groups that don't look all that different from what we have post-Citizens United.
In the 2004 presidential election, remember, it was liberal billionaire George Soros versus the big-money backers of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
Yes, the money pouring into independent political organizations is growing at a staggering pace. But as Matt Bai pointed out in a recent piece in The New York Times Magazine, the growth was evident prior to Citizens United.
And the conservatives writing the big checks this time around have a motivation that eclipses any Supreme Court edict: the first sitting Democratic president in the age of the independent expenditure.
The point, here, is that the problem of money in politics runs deeper than Citizens United. And while disclosure would make for a nice incremental step, incrementalism is inadequate — both as salve and as politics.
Disclosure will never grip the public imagination, will never force the Republicans' hand. And even bolder campaign finance reform, if framed as campaign finance reform, will make the eyes glaze.
What we need is public financing of campaigns and limits on independent spending, the latter requiring a constitutional amendment. And it's got to be sold by a bi-partisan, grassroots campaign willing to drop the wonkese and say something colorful and irreverent that can mobilize voters.
I'm picturing, to start, 10,000 billboards with an image of a Wall Streeter passing cash to a politician: "They Bought Washington, Let's Buy it Back." There are probably a dozen RISD students who could come up with a better idea in an afternoon. Get to work, I say. Whatever you come up is sure to be an improvement over what we've got now.
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