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Home › Forums › Gear Forums › Gear (General) › Solo Wilderness Security
Aug 29, 2011 at 12:39 am #1278640
Rodney OndaRockMember
@rodneyondarockLocale: Southern California
Since there's been a few news reports around the world of wild animals killing experienced hikers on foot, attacking tent sleepers in Norway, as well as accidentally discovering an illegal marijuana farm in national forests, that are guarded by armed bears with machine guns…
Curious, how many of you "have a friend" who is packing? and with BPL in mind, what type of security products would your friend recommend…
My friend is thinking of possibly something in the high caliber with stopping power, that can endure dirty conditions, with night sights, low probability of jam and malfunction, low accuracy is OK since it will be used for close distance (this is not for hunting) and of course LIGHTWEIGHT.
For the sake of this topic:
1) let's ackowledge that we are all aware that weapons are not allowed in most wilderness areas
2) let's skip the debate on the legality of carrying.
3) let's exclude the recently popular machete option.
4) let's agree to move pro/con gun control debates to another thread in chaf.Aug 29, 2011 at 1:09 am #1773820
W I S N E R !BPL Member
My friend says skip the gun and spend $40 on some bear spray if your friend is that worried.
-no permits
-less training
-less aiming
-less liability
-less chance of a nasty legal tangle if your friend actually used it on something
-probably far more effective against a bear
-no potentially fatal accidents
-in the 1/1000000000000000 chance your friend has an encounter he/she'd probably be more inclined to actually use it without panicking
And if your friend is accosted, kidnapped, attacked, or robbed by machine-gun-wielding pot growers your friend is F-ed regardless of what he/she's carrying.
My friend says your friend should relax.
Besides, my friend has always wondered…Say your friend is armed with a big gun. At what point do they open fire on the bear? 20 feet? 10 feet? 5 feet? 2 feet? When it's on you? Warning shots? It'd be pretty crappy to shoot up a bear over a mock-charge.Aug 29, 2011 at 4:19 am #1773827
Paul HatfieldBPL Member
> 1) let's ackowledge that we are all aware that weapons are not allowed in most wilderness areas
Not sure where you got that idea, but it's incorrect. The correct answer is that it depends on federal laws, state laws, and county ordinances in the area where you will be traveling.
> 2) let's skip the debate on the legality of carrying.
Not sure what that means. It is legal to carry in many National Forests, etc., but you need to check the laws in the area.
If you are implying that someone might disregard the applicable laws, I really suggest that person researches what penalties there could be.
> and of course LIGHTWEIGHT.
Define lightweight in ounces or grams.
From the second poster:
> And if your friend is accosted, kidnapped, attacked, or robbed by machine-gun-wielding pot growers your friend is
> F-ed regardless of what he/she's carrying.
Why? That doesn't make sense.Aug 29, 2011 at 4:20 am #1773828
HkNewmanBPL Member
@hknewmanLocale: Western US
Curious, how many of you "have a friend" who is packing
Found out that an environmentalist/left-wing acquaintance of mine carried a handgun when backpacking, so you never know. Probably since he was well-known in this area and his advocacy in expanding wilderness areas, he was likely worried that a lynch mob of ranchers would recognize his truck. Despite lots of weight-lifting, he started having joint issues and wasn't able to carry even an ultralight load a couple years after retiring at 60.Aug 29, 2011 at 4:30 am #1773830
tommy dMember
I'll echo Craig's suggestion to carry chemical spray.
Also, I'll add that when a person does decide to carry a gun they should have (a) an understanding of the laws and regulations, (b) a good lawyer, and (c) "less-lethal" options (chemical spray), and retention support options (knife).
Finally, there are several things about your post that lead my to believe that you don't have much experience with firearms. If you decide to start carrying a gun, the type of gun will most likely be less important than the level of training and amount of practice you achieve. Most likely, by the time you have the level of experience you need, you won't need or want to ask anybody for suggestions.Aug 29, 2011 at 4:45 am #1773833
Lowell MillsBPL Member
You would probably want a revolver over a semiauto pistol. Greater reliability, simplicity, no magazines, etc.
Perhaps a Smith & Wesson 342PD. From a recent review: "…the lightest of the Centennial series, weighing a feathery 10.8 ounces. Smith & Wesson has pioneered the use of titanium alloys in its revolvers, resulting in weapons that are much easier to carry concealed, without sacrificing strength. Titanium, when compared to steel, is lighter, tougher, and absolutely rust-proof. The 342PD is over four ounces lighter than the aluminum-frame/steel cylinder 442, and three-quarters of a pound lighter than the stainless steel model 640. In a pocket gun, every ounce counts, and the 342PD is the lightest concealed-hammer .38 Special revolver you can buy. Only the S&W 337PD exposed-hammer Chief's Special is lighter, by one-tenth of an ounce."
Plus pepper spray and a knife…Aug 29, 2011 at 4:51 am #1773834
Stephen MBPL Member
@stephen-mLocale: Way up North
I am moving to the US shortly from Europe and this is the one item that really scares the crap out of me whether its in a City or in the middle of a forest.Aug 29, 2011 at 6:52 am #1773844
Tom LyonsMember
@towalyLocale: Smoky Mtns.
In my particular area, bear hunting(black bear) is very common. For a handgun, I think any caliber in the 40-45 area is fine. People use 357 Magnum, but that might be a little light for the job if the bear is large or closing in on a charge. Also, the same caliber selections are fine for personal defense against human assailants too.
The most commonly used guns are .30-30 Winchester lever-action rifle, or .44 Magnum revolver, both of which are big(especially the rifle) and heavy.
Polymer-framed semi-auto pistols like a Glock in .40, 10mm, or .45 would do just as well, are very reliable, have alot of rounds in the magazine, and are lighter than steel-framed pistols. Glock is known for reliability(no-jam), and known for light weight, and they make some very compact and light models for carrying easily.
Chances are that you won't ever need any of that stuff, but you never know.
If guns are too scary, I can tell you that bears don't like dogs(medium-large), and neither do criminals, so a dog will typically help keep both problems away. Hunters here use packs of dogs for bear hunting, and the bears always run from the dogs until they are treed, or the dogs catch them(which doesn't come out well for the dogs usually). However, some other hikers don't like you to have a dog with you either, and you might catch some flak from them for bringing a dog.
Basically, do what you think you have to do. There is almost always somebody who is going to have some kind of opposition to almost anything you do.Aug 29, 2011 at 7:12 am #1773847
Jeff LaVistaBPL Member
I'm very pro "self defence" and I own a few defensive firearms for home protection and maintain proficient use in them. You could say I am a gun-guy.
The first step is making the promise to yourself to never willingly become a victim, self defense is a mixture of mostly mental preparedness, maintaining situational awareness of what us occurring around you, a little bit of dark intentions for any thing or person that means you harm, and lastly having a weapon or means to project physical force upon those who would harm you.
Now all that sounds pretty gung-ho, but avoidance and de-escalation is the name of the game. Hikers tell you about the tweakers at a shelter, bypass them and stealth camp elsewhere. Rangers posted signs at the trailed about problem bears? Hit another weekend loop somewhere else. Hike up onto a grow op/meth lab? Beat feet outta there!
Onto hardware: what you carry is a function of threat assessment vs your visible profile vs weight. Not enough weapon and your unable to project stopping force, too much and you risk scaring passers-by, maybe getting the police called on you. Likewise too much and youre weighed down.
If profile and weight weren't factors, we would all stroll out into bear country with RPG's or belt fed lmg's. But they are.
If you're worried about bears only, bear spray is the most survivable option. Alaskan police have done studies. Handguns (including magnum revolvers) offer negligible protection, large caliber rifles and 12 gauges give you about a coin tosses chance of survival, bear spray is like 90%+ survival rates in attacks.
If you're worried about people, a big gun can be a deterrence, or it can be an object to steal from your dead corpse, and this is why profile is equally important as stopping power. A full power modern handgun like a glock in 9mm, .40 or .45 is enough gun for a person or black bear, and can be carried in accessible fashion without drawing too much attention. You can also get some bird shot cartridges that will open up survival hunting options.
Whatever you carry, practice is everything. You must be able to rapidly deploy the weapon and engage the threat, or you may as well leave it at home.
For my needs I chose concealable pepper spray. Will put a person in the dirt, and I can flee the scene without informing any police, or leaving a body count (maintaining low profile), legal in more areas then the firearm, and easy to dispose of if you're in an area with questionable legality. Buy more online if you need it, get it shipped right to you at a supply point.
Good police grade pepper sprays will have a more potent mixture then bear spray formulas, so it will perform double duty. I'll return later with some links to suggested products.Aug 29, 2011 at 7:26 am #1773853
Aaron BensonMember
@aaronmbLocale: Central Valley California
I'll second all of Craig and Tommy's comments above.
Regarding "where" – there's a big difference between National Forest and National Park. If you're genuinely concerned about the Pot Growers, call your local NP/NF agency and ask them if it's relatively safe to hike near ______. I've heard of instances where hikers were actually cautioned against going into certain areas "before law enforcement can sweep that area."
One big thing to keep in mind is Tommy's suggestion about training. The finest bear gun or man stopper isn't worth a hoot if you can't shoot straight. Practice, practice, practice – to the point, as suggested, that when you're capable and ready (whatever that really means), this won't be a question. I grew up shooting responsibly and still shoot often; thousands and thousands of rounds have gone through my hands, through various calibers big and small; I own firearms, including something appropriate for what you're investigating. BUT, despite any concerns I've had about bears or bad guys, I have yet to pack a piece on the trail. I'll take Bear Spray, first, then when I can put a good lawyer on retainer, I'l consider the Glock. With that, though, I can't say I've never seriously thought about it a few times while packing gear. Each time, though, I've come to "how am I going to carry this thing?" It's certainly light enough, but it won't carry comfortably on my hip or back and it's worthless if it's carried in the backpack.
Half of my trail time is spent in areas where I'll see at least a handful of people everyday; if I were going out to more remote locations more often–spending more time in the National Forest–I might reconsider and figure out a comfortable light weight method of carry that won't interfere with a pack.Aug 29, 2011 at 7:34 am #1773854
scri bblesBPL Member
@scribblesLocale: Atlanta, GA
Glock for the city. Bearspray for the wilderness. It's very simple (to me).Aug 29, 2011 at 7:41 am #1773858
Joe ClementBPL Member
@skinewmexicoLocale: Southwest
+1000 on the bear spray. Maybe if you're in parts of Alaska, and then it's a very specialized piece of hardware. But it's easiest, lightest, and safest to just carry spray; and that's coming from a guy with 2 safes who plays a lot of gun games.Aug 29, 2011 at 7:46 am #1773860
Matthew ZionMember
@mzionLocale: Boulder, CO
Sig Sauer in the city. Heavy steal frame for smooth repeating fire and no safety.
But in the backcountry I really go without 'protection.' Scariest thing I've ever encountered in the woods was having to cross a busy highway. 99% of the people you will see are going to be like minded and friendly and most of the large mammals will simply run away.Aug 29, 2011 at 7:49 am #1773863
Jeff LaVistaBPL Member
For the people suggesting bear spray, realize that while a bear is much bigger, they have more sensitive noses and spray that will cause a bear to make a 180, might not be as effective against an angry person. Since our noses are so comparatively dull, the formula for.human pepper sprays is a more severe mixture
Bear spray is meant to be a screening device, creating a hanging cloud of deterrent between you and the bear. human sprays are meant to be aimed and is a more persistent, concentrated agent.
If you want dual protection carry a potent human oriented formula that will also be sufficient to keep the bears away.Aug 29, 2011 at 8:02 am #1773868
Stephen BarberBPL Member
@grampaLocale: SoCal
I just carry a light weight plastic "This Property Protected by Acme Security" sign and post it outside my tarp. That keeps all the bears and bad guys away! ;)Aug 29, 2011 at 8:29 am #1773874
Fred ThorpMember
"My friend is thinking of possibly something in the high caliber with stopping power, that can endure dirty conditions, with night sights, low probability of jam and malfunction, low accuracy is OK since it will be used for close distance (this is not for hunting) and of course LIGHTWEIGHT."
I will not comment on bears, but for the two legged threats: When I don't know much about the shooter, I generally recommend a Glock-19. Easy to shoot, durable, reliable, available parts, and cost of practice ammo. Airweight revolvers, I'd skip. Laws, you need to know. Understand, stopping power of most self defense handgun calibers pretty much sucks.
"low accuracy is OK" … Discounting the need for accuracy worries me.Aug 29, 2011 at 9:20 am #1773887
Terry TrimbleMember
@socal-nomadLocale: North San Diego county
I was backpacking to the summit of Mt San Jacinto out of Idylwild on the deer springs trail. I ran in to drugged out guy who was coming down the trail he asked me where I was going I lied to him. But then I looked down on the switch backs he turned around was following me up so I hiked really fast and ditched him and instead of camping at the designated area. I spent the night off trail 2 miles past over looking the trail in secluded area.
Bears and pot growers avoidance is the best weapon and speed and evasion techniques, good physical shape to get out of the situation as quickly as possible is your best weapon . Self defense how to disarm and take a man out quickly so you can get out of there is a last resort.
Good old fashion art of talking and bargaining your way out of a situation is also good with marijuana growers they don't need dead bodies planted all over the place. Just say you stumbled upon the area by accident and you could care less about what their doing and will not report them because what they are doing is a great service to the medical marijuana user and their saints for what their doing. Keep your word to them when you get out of there.
Most rational people will listen and let you go. Irrational people will have already have disarmed you and killed you with your gun or their guns.
TerryAug 29, 2011 at 9:38 am #1773894
HkNewmanBPL Member
@hknewmanLocale: Western US
Solo Wilderness Security Posted 08/29/2011 05:51:36 MDT by Stephen Mullen (stephenm)
I am moving to the US shortly from Europe and this is the one item that really scares the crap out of me whether its in a City or in the middle of a forest.
Would not worry about it too much except around trailheads with easy vehicle access (i.e. close to a good road). I often solo and have my gear ready to go after turning off the car. Solo I definitely carry bear spray (for starters) that will knock a grizzly off a kill, plus anything else with a nose.
Jeff LaVista … bear spray vs mace on 08/29/2011 08:49:40 MDT
….For the people suggesting bear spray, realize that while a bear is much bigger, they have more sensitive noses and spray that will cause a bear to make a 180, might not be as effective against an angry person. Since our noses are so comparatively dull, the formula for.human pepper sprays is a more severe mixture
There were some well publicized "tests" about a decade ago, where some law enforcement officers sprayed bear spray on a volunteer or 2 to see if the top brand(s) would work on humans (think it was written up in Backpacker magazine as a blurb also). They found it worked "surprisingly" well – also keep it secure in your vehicle, as apparently some crashes occurred after accidental discharge inside an auto.
ADD: that's bears and humans, not sure if there's been any tests or incidents with other animals – not even sure it would be legal to conduct such testing anyways.Aug 29, 2011 at 9:50 am #1773895
Richard CullipSpectator
@richardcullipLocale: San Diego County
My friend, who hikes around the Southern Sierra mostly in the Golden Trout Wilderness, doesn't feel the need to carry any protection from large animals of either the two-footed or four-footed variety.
The only black bear he's ever encountered while on the trail was more scared of him than he was of the bear. That bear swapped ends very quickly and scampered off up the hill away from the trail.
As for the two-footed variety, he just assumes that he couldn't carry enough fire power to make a difference if he ever needed to get into a fire-fight with druggies who have set up their grow operations in the National Forest. So far this approach has worked for him since the late 60's and he sees no need to change his "No Packing" approach while out enjoying the wilderness.Aug 29, 2011 at 10:02 am #1773902
Ben CBPL Member
@alexdrewreedLocale: Kentucky
Richard and I must have the same friend.
And I'm with Terry. I think my wits are likely to be much more valuable than a firearm in dealing with other people.Aug 29, 2011 at 10:25 am #1773911
folecr rBPL Member
I just bring my gun nut friends along.Aug 29, 2011 at 10:49 am #1773927
Fred ThorpMember
…"Irrational people will have already have disarmed you and killed you with your gun or their guns."
…"he just assumes that he couldn't carry enough fire power to make a difference if he ever needed to get into a fire-fight with druggies who have set up their grow operations in the National Forest."
I don't agree with these assumptions, but everyone has to make their own decisions, informed or not.Aug 29, 2011 at 11:16 am #1773938
Sam FarringtonBPL Member
@scfhomeLocale: Chocorua NH, USA
All the bears I know prefer an HK or MP machine pistol, so that's what you will be up against; and unlike what you see on TV, a rifle or handgun will be useless in the face of such overwhelming firepower superiority.
When you have acquired your shooter, please let us know, so we can rat you out.
Thanx.Aug 29, 2011 at 11:56 am #1773947
Mike MBPL Member
@mtwardenLocale: Montana
when I'm working I carry my firearm into the backcountry, when I'm recreating I leave it at home
if I'm in grizzly country I carry bear spray, regardless if I have my firearm or not- it's going to be more effective for a charging grizzly
have there been times I wished I had my sidearm, a few- but so few that I plan on continuing to leave it at home on non-work trips
for those wondering on the pepper spray, the bear spray is very (very) effective against any two legged species- OC spray is measured in Scoville units (measures heat) and bear spray is typically stronger than LE OC spray- also a much larger quantity :)
my advice to your "friend" is forget about the sidearm for the backcountry, the city……. that's another matter altogetherAug 29, 2011 at 12:35 pm #1773961
Ultra MagnusMember
What about bear and pepper sprays in the wind? Where I live, there are very few bears, but lots of tweakers and dirt people (desert variant of hill billy), and here in the desert the wind blows (both figuratively and literally). It's always blowing… So, what do you do if your assailant is coming at you from down wind?
Also with regards to practice- I was reading a similar discussion in another forum where someone made a pretty good point, I thought. While most gun nuts are pretty well practiced with the operation with their firearms, how much practice does that average outdoors-man have with a bear spray canister? I mean, I dunno how much one costs, but for $20 I can rip out quite a few rounds at the shooting range with my handgun. How much practice does it take to be proficient with a bear canister? With practice drawing a firearm becomes a reflex.
Now, out of all the time I spend in the desert I've never carried anything more than my 4" tactical folder (but I always carry that with me anyway). I've never been assaulted but have run past some shady looking people out in the desert of a few occasions.
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Big Room with breakfast and WIFI
Size15 m²
Floor No.7(with elevator)
- Breakfast
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|JUAN RAMON JIMENEZ, 46026 Valencia, Spain
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Floor of parquet. Cold air conditioning / heat in lounge and principal room. Heating in all the dependencies
2 double, very wide and luminous rooms with double beds.
Placed in a pedestrian street. Near the City of the Arts and the Sciences (1,5 km), of the Historical Center of the City (1,5 km), zone of nightclubs and restaurants (Ruzafa's Neighborhood to 1 km - for the one that he still has you win of going out in the night), as well as to enjoy the gardens of the river Turia more than 10 Km that cross the city.
The zone is very calm. It has the polysport one with covered swimming pool, tracks of paddle, I stand out Soccer field, gymnasium, etc. And several gardens in the surroundings.
There exist several lines of direct buses that were taking you to the downtown, to the City of the Sciences and the Arts, to the zone of Universities and in summer to the beach. Also a station exists in front of our house Valenbisi (public bicycles) to rent a bicycle to good price. With bicycle you can come easily to the beach or visit the whole city of this one on west for the river.
In proximity to the house exists access to: Bus: Lines 6, 8, 18, 23 (beach), N7 (nocturne) and Taxi stand.
House rulesPets are not admitted.
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Reviews of this property
We had a wonderful time in the bed and breakfast of aurora and Andres. The breakfast was good, cozy appartment and we have got good tips of restaurants and things to visit. Valencia is a very beautiful city!
very nice room to start your sightseeings in Valencia. Good connections to the rest of the city. The host, Andres, has all the tourist information you could want. Nice and pleasant breakfast, served by Andres, tending to all wishes and needs. A very good opportunity if you want to explore the city and its surroundings for a few days.
Andrés was a magnificent host. I've spend seven days in his apartment and slept on a good bed. The breakfast each morning was very nice with good coffee and fresh fruit.
On day one Andrés gave a lot of information about the city, information about the bus station, the attractions, where to rent bikes and he can recommend a couple good restaurants as well.
I've had a great time and can recommend his accommodation to anyone staying in Valencia.
Best of luck and keep up the good work :)
A very pretty room and a GREAT host! Even before our arrival there, Andres gave us perfect directions how to find his place. The area is very pretty, close to the City of arts and the bars at Ruzaffa. One night we took a taxi back home and it cost only 6 euros so the location is very good!
The room is cozy and there is plenty of space for the clothes and the luggage. In summer it might be a bit hot but there is a ventilator for those who cant stand the heat. The breakfast is also excellent and Andres will make sure to have the best time while staying at his place! Deffinately a place to recommend!
The stay at Andrés and Aurora was very good. Breakfast will be prepared if you want to, no matter how late it is. The bed is good and there is ample space for your clothes etc. Everything is very clean. Andrés is a real host. He tells a lot about what to do in and around Valencia. We have and had fantastic stay.
Het verblijf bij Andrès en Aurora was erg goed. Het ontbijt wordt klaargemaakt als je daar zin in hebt, maakt niet uit hoe laat het is. Het bed is goed en er is voldoende plek voor je kleding etc. Alles is heel schoon. Andrès is een echte gastheer. Hij vertelt veel over wat er te doen is in en om Valencia. We hebben en fantastisch verblijf gehad.
A very nice bed and servicial.La nice house. We felt good in it and with the hosts. The nicely. We recommend it for rent.
Un matrimonio muy agradable y servicial.La casa muy bonita. Nos hemos sentido bien en ella y con los anfitriones. La habitación muy bien. La recomendamos para alquilarla.
We had an excellent stay in Andres house. Great and cozy room in a well located house. Andrew, as host, is great. Always friendly and very attentive. It has helped a lot to discover Valencia and always ready to give us his instructions and wise counsel.
The best, without doubt the excellent breakfasts and the time to share a bit of chat with him and the other tenants.
Thoroughly recommended.
Hemos tenido una estancia inmejorable en casa de Andrés. Una habitación estupenda y acogedora en una casa bien situada. Andrés, como anfitrión, es estupendo. Siempre amable y muy atento. Nos ha ayudado mucho a descubrir Valencia y siempre dispuesto a darnos sus indicaciones y sus sabios consejos.
Lo mejor, sin duda los excelentes desayunos y el momento de compartir un rato de charla con él y los otros inquilinos.
Totalmente recomendado.
Dear Andres,
We had a very nice stay in your place. You made every morning a great breakfest and we enjoyed this very much! The sleeping room was nice and we felt het home. we hope that many persons wil follow, greetings and once more thanks at both,
Hanny and Yvette
Andrés and his partner were wonderful and very welcoming hosts. Andrés gave me tips and information on festivals, attractions, sights and much more. He also was able to get notified about all the background information. It was very exciting and just a great time. Breakfast was just as excellent as my room in a very pleasant area. I was allowed to take Andrés bike and felt like home. Just perfect and I can highly recommend this accommodation.
Andrés und seine Partnerin waren wundervolle und sehr herzliche Gastgeber. Andrés gab mir Tipps und Auskünfte über Festivals, Attraktionen, Sehenswürdigkeiten und vieles mehr. Auch konnte er mir zu allem die Hintergrundinformationen mitteilen. Es war sehr spannend und einfach eine herrliche Zeit. Das Frühstück war genauso hervorragend wie mein Zimmer in einer sehr angenehmen Gegend. Ich durfte Andrés Fahrrad nehmen und fühlte mich wie zuhause. Einfach perfekt und ich kann diese Unterkunft wärmstens weiterempfehlen.
We were in the cas for 9 days. This couple is very agradabe and have time for all the things you need during the trip. Very fast wifi and also daily breakfast is ready when you wake up. It is not necessary to wash the dishes after breakfast. Room is very comfortable, luxurious and clean. The towels are changed after 5 days. You disponsible have 2/4 of tambiem bathrooms and very clean. You can TV nails and everything. It's a good idea to go home. The homeowner is a very nice person :) A greeting Polona. Many thank you very much !!! We recommend.
Estuvimos en su cas por 9 dias. Esta pareja es muy agradabe y tiene tiempo para todas las cosas que necesitas durante el viaje. Wifi muy rapido y ademas cada dia el desayuno esta preparado cuando te levantas. No es necesario lavar lo platos despues de desayuno. Habitacion es muy comodo, lujo y limpio. Las toallas estan cambiando despues de 5 dias. Tienes 2 cuartos de banos disponsible y tambiem muy limpios. Puedes uas la tele y todas las cosas. Es una buena idea ir a su casa. El Dueńo de casa es una persona muy agradable :) Un Saludo De Polońa. Muchas muchas gracias !!! Les recomendamos.
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That's Home Exchange!
60th Anniversary Facebook Competitions
That's Home Exchange! Photo Competition
Our members uploaded 3-5 of their best, funniest or most characteristic home exchange photos to the Intervac International Facebook page. Each photo included a short caption telling us why home exchange is the best way to travel. The judges focused less on image quality and much more on image content and pertinence to home exchange the Intervac way.
And The Winners Are...
PHOTO category was no doubt most popular with members who took part in Intervac 60th Anniversary competitions.
4 winners who get 1/2 YEAR INTERVAC 2013/14 MEMBERSHIPS are:
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- Krystyna Stanisłąw Bogdanski, Poland (PL093)
- Joanna Ossera, Poland (PL196)
- Blasa Moro Martin, Spain
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That's Home Exchange! Film Competition
You made us laugh, you made us cry, but mostly you showed us the story of home exchange in your families. For this competition our members uploaded a 3-5 minute travelogue, family film: My Home Exchange to the Intervac International Facebook Page.
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That's Home Exchange! Story or Essay Competition
Remember the time...? For this competition our members told us all about their most memorable home exchange moments! We enjoyed reading all of your stories, your reports, your most memorable home-exchange experiences.
And The Winners Are...
60th Intervac anniversary competitions are over & here are the names of our winners!
3 best reports awarded with 1 YEAR 2013/14 MEMBERSHIP belong to:
- Inge Marie & John Hansen, Denmark (DK987225)
- Kurt & Gerda Schneider, Austria (AT92157)
- Molina Hernandez family, Spain
1/2 YEAR INTERVAC MEMBERSHIPS go to:
- Antoine Jean-Christophe, France (FR050552)
- Zofia, Stanislaw Bogdanski, Poland (PL093)
Do please contact your national organizors on how to collect your award please. Your reports can be found on new Intervac website to be launched soon www.intervac-homeexchange.com Congratulations!
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The Intervac International 60th Anniversary competitions (the "competitions") are open to all participants, active or non-active INTERVAC members regardless of residence or citizenship, provided the laws of their jurisdiction allow participation.
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Entries must be submitted between 1 July, 2012 - 15 March, 2013
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Golden Lake Hotel
No prices found through our partners. Please contact the business directly or check some of our recommended alternatives.
- Suites
- Free High-Speed Internet
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Photos of Golden Lake Hotel
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TripAdvisor Reviews Golden Lake Hotel Guangzhou
Travel Blogs from Guangzhou
... morning we walked over to a park and played in streams and we walked along the park to get to a playground. The park was a beautiful Chinese Garden. The four elements of a Chinese a Garden are buildings, water, rocks and plants. Ryder and I always head to the waterfalls first. You can jump across the rocks. There is one path called 'no shoe stroll'. So we took our shoes off and walked over ...
A small village and a silent grave
... combined. And the people in Nankin never asked for war. The battles, the extreme poverty of naked children begging in the ice cold rain for some food. They saw it, they experienced it. And now... the hot sun warms their silent grave on this quiet hillside. A pond is below us, and the distant country side of 15 years ago is now highrises. Fifteen years ago everyone was asking for money to start a business. Now they have large 4-story houses. By the time ...
The Chinese business world
... luxury. The room in the Charlton was not available and from said room, which would have cost ten times our usual room cost, we are now placed in a luxury suite. Bath, shower, second bathroom, living room, second living room, sort of kitchen with standing bar. Well, we can survive here, on the 22nd floor, overlooking the brilliance of a city of highrises below. After a short night we go to the office of Sisi's friends. Top floor of ...
Chimelong paradise - Guangzhou
Yesterday we went to chimelong paradise, a massive theme park in guangzhou. It was all Halloween themed and we had a great time. There was lots of water rides where you get totally soaked, you have to wear ponchos on them. Not like the ones in England where you hardy get wet. There was another ride where you sit like you're on a motorbike and it shoots you off really quick and then you go over loads of bumps! As it was Halloween there were lots of Halloween mazes with actors ...
We left Beijing with the best weather we have seen. We flew to Guangzhou and instead of a 9 hour wait at the airport, we met a new tour guide who took us into Guangzhou City. I was desperate to see a little of Guangzhou, partly to avoid 4 hours shopping. Guangzhou tower is actually the third tallest building in the world, however, we only sighted it in the ...


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Student Life
San Diego is a great place to study — and a great place to live. The university, research institutions and innovative business community have become a magnet for attracting smart, talented, successful people to the region.
As California's second-largest city (after Los Angeles), San Diego has the resources and diversity of a major metropolitan area — and it has a feel of community, with distinctive neighborhoods and a strong civic sense.
Rady students benefit from the school's integration with the campus — you will interact with other UC San Diego students for projects and extracurricular activities, establishing professional and social networks.
If you have any questions, please contact please contact Rady Ph.D. Graduate Coordinator at firstname.lastname@example.com.


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Port Douglas Wedding Photographer | Cairns Wedding Photographer - Shaun Guest
Cairns & Port Douglas Wedding Photographer. Creative and timeless story telling images that wont bore your grandchildren.
July 13, 2010 by Shaun Guest Leave a Comment
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text: I have a hard time using this system. I have a '92 Silverado 3/4 454 2500 w/75k miles. The fuel guage stayed at about 1/2 then when full it went way past full; the guage was off about 30 degrees. We, a friend mainly, dropped the tank-about an hour+; it was empty. I went to about 5 parts places including Chevy. Auto Zone was the only one w/a sender & pump unit, AND the 2 seperately. Together it was about $250; seperate parts about $100 for sender and $50 for pump. He said to get a new pump since the tank was off. He also took the panel out to look at the guage. He assembled the 2 seperate units and reinstalled. It works great so far; nearly empty and the needle is where it should be. I haven't filled it yet but see no reason why it won't be ok. Any questions email me: firstname.lastname@example.com. 4-13-08 I recently made a trip from Blythe (I 10 by the Colorada river) to Palm Springs, west about 115 miles. I put $60 in my 454 at c. $3.50 a gallon. The needle seemed to work fine but went to the warning zone near Palm Springs. Actually it flucuated a bit coming down the mountains into Indio. But basically I think that the repair made mainly by my friend Clifford Hayes Jr. did the trick. He even took out the panel guages and checked them. Does anyone know much about repairing a headliner in this truck? I am just 5'9" so the sag in mine doesn't bother me but I would like to get it fixed. I'm not looking for a totally professional job. I've had a couple of comments but would appreciate hearing other views, if any. Thanks, don or rex


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Favourite Genre: Non-Fiction/Adventure
Recently read: The Beach (Alex Garland) & Shanataram (Gregory David Roberts)
The Beach was an awesome book...brilliant writing style and an amazing tale, 4/5 althought I did'nt like the movie adaptation so much.
Shantaram..5/5 man, this book is a classic. Ca'nt wait to see what Mira Nair does with the movie
Edited by AmeyC, 05 September 2007 - 11:54 AM.


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Now it works
The Benny Hill music is perfect The wetback version of a clown car
There slippery little bastards aren't they?
There's another one out there where a full size van flips on it's side and 30+ get out. I have no idea how they get that many people in those things.
The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.
- Thomas Jefferson
A speedy procurement of Obongo Youth squads would end this
Charter member-Busted Box Club est. 2006
"I will adhere to the Patriot Act, the one signed in 1776"
- Marc Anderson


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Getting ready for OSCP
I am trying to get ready for the OSCP course and certification. I have a pretty good idea what the course is about. But before registering for the course, I was thinking of playing more with the basic tools (Metasploit and many tools found in Backtrack), so I could get the most of the OSCP course material.
I have hacked the first two De-Ice live cds in my lab and I would like to hack all the other challenges (remaining De-Ice and Hackerdemia live cds) that I can find before I start the course. This way, I could get the most of the course.
If you have done OSCP, would you say it's a good idea or the course really gives you all you need?
(aka H1t.M0nk3y)


text: This Seirra has 47,000 original miles. It has a 305 with a 700r4 transmission. It was all original until I did the following modifications, replaced the manifold with an [COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]Edelbrock[/COLOR][/COLOR] Peformer, installed 60,000 volt distributor, installed headers. Since these modifications my transmission slips while shifting into 2 & 3rd when excellerating to fast, after shifting it works fine and doesn't slip. It will shift fine if I let up on the [COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]gas[/COLOR][/COLOR] as I reach the shift point. Could any of my modifications cause the problem or is the [COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]transmission[/COLOR][/COLOR] having problems


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News Release Article from
Archived - Minister Ambrose Hosts Economic Roundtable in Calgary with Industry
Archived Content
Information identified as archived is provided for reference, research or recordkeeping purposes. It is not subject to the Government of Canada Web Standards and has not been altered or updated since it was archived. Please contact us to request a format other than those available.
For immediate release
Government of Canada Continues Focus on Jobs and Growth
CALGARY, Alberta, January 27, 2012 – Today, the Honourable Rona Ambrose, Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for Status of Women, held a roundtable consultation with industry to discuss some of Public Works and Government Services Canada's (PWGSC) key strategic initiatives. This meeting was an opportunity to engage Alberta stakeholders and obtain their feedback on departmental priorities.
"Our Government's top priority continues to be the economy," said Minister Ambrose. "With the global economy still very fragile, we continue to focus on creating jobs and economic growth."
The roundtable gave Minister Ambrose the opportunity to hear industry feedback on PWGSC's strategic initiatives related to real property.
"Since July 2009, Canadian entrepreneurs, businesses and others have created almost 600,000 new jobs," said Minister Ambrose. "That's why we're sitting down with Canadian industry to get their feedback on the best way to strengthen the Canadian economy and to create jobs across the country."
PWGSC manages one of the largest and most diverse real estate portfolios in the country. As the Department strives for excellence, it relies on the private sector to improve the way it delivers services to other departments and to Canadians. Industry consultations like the one held today are important in obtaining industry's feedback. The input received will be valuable as PWGSC moves forward with its initiatives.
Leading up to the next federal budget, the Government of Canada is holding consultations with Canadians from coast to coast to coast on the economy. Led by Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Finance Minister Jim Flaherty, the consultations are an opportunity for Canadians to provide their views on the best way to create jobs and economic growth. In order to ensure that all Canadians can participate in this process, the Government of Canada has also launched online pre-budget consultations. Those wishing to make submissions can do so by visiting http://www.fin.gc.ca/prebudget-prebudgetaire/1-eng.asp.
Ce texte est également disponible en français.
For more information, media may contact:
Michelle Bakos
Office of the Honourable Rona Ambrose
Media Relations
Public Works and Government Services Canada
PWGSC news releases are also available on our Internet site at http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/medias-media/index-eng.html.
Search for related information by keyword
Public Services and Procurement Canada Government and Politics Economics and Industry
- Date modified:


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UTSA students on Port Aransas field trip
(Photos by Chris Coteff)
UTSA biology students explore Gulf of Mexico
By Kris Rodriguez
Public Affairs Specialist
(Sept. 26, 2006)--Thirteen students from UTSA's biology department recently had a first-hand look at marine life in the Gulf of Mexico. One of two annual field trips to Port Aransas, the two-day excursion has been conducted for seven years under the leadership of UTSA biology professor Jyotsna Sharma.
"I think it's important for the students to be aware of our changing environments and the impact we have on the world around us," said Sharma. "Our students learn about the diversity of marine organisms and their habitats."
Today's headlines
- La Prensa Foundation is newest member of UTSA Lone Star Society
- UTSA alumna Jordan Kaufmann wins $50K for new stent-graft start-up
- UTSA begins new way-finding sign installation this summer at Main Campus
- USA Today: UTSA long jumper Tyler Williamson rescues three-year-old boy
Article tools
In addition to valuable field experience, the trips help prepare students for job opportunities through networking with researchers and biologists at local marine research facilities, fish and wildlife departments, parks and wildlife groups and various private organizations.
The students spend their time walking the Port Aransas beaches, jetties and mud flats gathering samples for observation and trawling at sea for marine life aboard a research vessel.
"It was amazing and makes you appreciate all the things you learn in the lab when you see people using those same techniques out in the field," said Michael Cavazos, junior biology major.
The field trips are open to biology and environmental science students who have completed introductory biology classes.
For more information about the January field trip, contact the UTSA Department of Biology at (210) 458-4458.


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Town Square
Investigative reporting: pay now or pay later?
Original post made by Gina Channell-Allen, president of the Pleasanton Weekly, on Apr 21, 2009
Robert Rosenthal, a long-time reporter and editor with several well-respected and well-known newspapers, is now the executive director at the Center for Investigative Reporting. Rosenthal spoke recently about the disappearance of the "watchdog" role of newspapers and earlier this week spoke on PBS Online NewsHour, hosted by Jim Lehrer. about how loss of revenues will for the most part lead to the loss of investigative reporting.
Rosenthal said, in essence, it takes time and talent to produce investigative pieces. Unfortunately in most newsrooms today there is not enough time to allot to "projects" because there are newsholes to fill. And the talented journalists are often the highest paid and, therefore, the first to be laid off.
Here are two links, one from the above-mentioned interview and another from a recent piece on CBS Sunday Morning. I found them thought-provoking and somewhat disturbing. What are your thoughts?
Web Link
Web Link
By the way, I'm rereading "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand. Should this be required reading for everyone?
Comments (27)
a resident of Castlewood
on Apr 21, 2009 at 11:55 am
nospam1 is a registered user.
Thank you for your post. Interesting question and I'll give you my quick 2 cents.
It is obviously a HUGE problem that there is a tremendous void in the true investigative journalists in the media (newspapers, tv, etc.). The fact that Obama was not vetted by the press and has become the leader of the free world is glaring evidence of the lack of investigative journalism. It required Hannity to first uncover Obama's relationship with Bill Ayres, Wright, etc. !!!
Even Tom Brokaw -- who is a big Obama proponent -- confessed during a tv program after he became President that "NO ONE REALLY KNOWS WHO HE IS!!!" (Hey Tom...wasn't that YOUR job and the job of your cohorts during the election??? HELLOOOO!!!???
Wasn't it at all curious to ANY journalist that ALL of Obama's college records were and are still sealed??? What is he hiding (including his birth certificate)?
As another example of why the media is not objective...and that there are no true investigative journalists...
- over the last couple days, the media has been heavily promoting the book Obama received from Chavez which states why the US is an evil country. It is so blatant that major media is pushing this book's sales in the US and it has succeeded in becoming the #2 best selling book in America over the past week or two. The media are effusive about this! Imagine that...they are pushing a book which is extremely anti-US...and they are BEAMING! Yet there is one item they NEVER mention...that is what book is #1 over the past three or four weeks. That book is Mark Levin's "Libery and Tyranny."
I am still amazed to hear how excited that the media is over their accomplishment in pushing the anti-American book Obama was given.
The people who call themselves journalists in the US are now largely advocates for very liberal causes...and we see the result in changing the US to become more socialist. They are NOT INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISTS and this has led to the rapid decline in news readership ... and a rise in alternative news sources like talkradio and the drudgereport, etc.
Again, thank you for your thought-provoking posting. (I am sure that you'll see others reply -- like Ray -- who will try to trash my reply as being too rightwinged.
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Apr 21, 2009 at 11:59 am
Stacey is a registered user.
When the media decided to chase dollars instead of truth, to turn into venues of entertainment instead of storehouses of facts, that's when we lost true journalism. But don't blame the media. It's a free market and the successful will give the people what the really want.
president of the Pleasanton Weekly
on Apr 21, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Gina Channell-Allen is a registered user.
Stacey, Is it what people want or is it wanted because the media is forcefeeding it to people? The entertainment fodder is easy to get and served up basically free by publicists.
Speaking in terms of the chicken and the egg, the dollars pay for the journalists, and the journalists are supposed to bring in the dollars from people from people who want and need the news. When the dollars go away, so do the journalists. But do you think a "non-profit" type of business model would work?
a resident of Downtown
on Apr 21, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Ms. Channell-Allen, you bring up an interesting point. Is it not also a fact that when editors run amok (as did Mr. Bing with his "outing" of a writer whose identity was compromised in violation of your policies) they owe the readers an apology? YOU apologized for him, Jeb continues on with business as usual. The result is less credibility for newspapers in general, your in particular.
president of the Pleasanton Weekly
on Apr 21, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Gina Channell-Allen is a registered user.
Resident, We are trying to have an intelligent conversation about the topic at hand, which is funding of journalism. Please move to the thread that was posted a few weeks ago if you would like to beat that dead horse.
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Apr 21, 2009 at 12:55 pm
Stacey is a registered user.
The great thing about capitalism is that the consumer decides. The great problem with capitalism is that consumers can and will purchase products that they don't necessarily need (think snake oil) but have been lead to believe they do.
Gina, I think it's both. Fox News, for example, is highly successful because they provided a product that consumers wanted. Consumers tune in to that channel and no one is forcing them to do that. Fox News remains essentially commentary about news, not the news itself. Being highly successful, they become powerful and they're able to even create news (i.e., TEA parties). It's the modern form of yellow journalism. The casualty of this is those that will grow up unable to tell the difference between commentary and real news.
You said yourself in an earlier column that readers need to do more due diligence and that's especially true as the investigative journalists go away and the citizen journalist/bloggers (who do what they do usually for free) increase. The role of the editor is also diminishing and the "crowd" is taking over. You might be interested in this that just came across my Inbox this morning: "Transforming Journalism: What are new business models and entrepreneurial opportunities?" Web Link
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Apr 21, 2009 at 1:01 pm
Stacey is a registered user.
Wanted to add... Weeklies/community journalism will also transform. As the larger dailies dry up, more pressure will be on the weeklies to provide the kind of journalism the public used to find in the dailies. There was some chart somewhere that I saw representing how local news is becoming increasingly more important to the public. The Internet helps, as I think your company has discovered. You can publish news to your website at any time of the day and aren't reliant upon waiting for your print deadlines.
a resident of Fairlands Elementary School
on Apr 21, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Gina, thank you for your thoughtful words. I am stirred to comment my thoughts, too. I strive to be thoughtful as well.
Currently there is a systematic dismantling of our heritage throughout this nation.
Is anyone honestly surprised that the now sacred "liberal arts" degrees have in just a few short generations produce people with alternative ideas and those then comprising subsequent entities that educate the generations?
When you disproportionally emphasize one world view and misrepresent facts to the public, who more often than not chooses to "not get involved" or are too young to know better, we slowly errode the time-honored values and eventually see them diminish. The cycle begins with education and who typically is drawn to educate and "expand the mind". I see a more sinister plot when I know from my own experience how I was afraid to speak out during my eduacational experience only a few short years ago.
There is a reason why values, standards, and morality are important to uphold. When we don't hold to ideals, striving toward them even as we stumble, the fabric of our society unravels. The foundation that we assumed was firming after so much effort and contribution from generations past begins to crumble and who can desire to build on that?
I'm not trying to insert religion here, only using it as an example to draw a parallel to this topic...
When a society promotes the values of being accountable to not only each other but to the Diety, suddenly we improve our behavior. Hence the root word 'cult' in culture. When morality and social norms are deemed questionable at any time and without consequence, where do we draw the line? We abhor that which appears too far off in normalcy now, but then only a generation ago some norms of today were abhorant just then.
It is now that we have come to a place where people in position of influence (journalists, "entertainers", etc) choose to push their personal beliefs, instead of modeling virtue and offering facts not interlaced with opinion.
Why is it now that newspaper organizations choose to support a political leader instead of adequately being the one to question all of them on behalf of society? Just last week one said journalist was praised with a societal award for her part in pulically humiliating a candiate for a political office who wanted to serve this country. Yet no one whinced that the same journalist did nothing to equally invest queries about the counterpart in the political race.
It is important to ask questions when listening to anyone these days because of the propencity of modern values-starved embracing of "relative morality": What feels good to me...what is right for me...what is my reality, etc. Where is the consideration of this citizenry to ask each of ourselves, "what is virtuous and noble for me to do as part of a benefit to this larger group?" I fear it is gone from too many of us and encouraged for those left.
When we indeed purpose to walk away from a set of standards and beliefs, we set ourselves up for failure. We should be more careful than to carelessly and unintentionally give away our rights away because of our fear of getting involved or going against the grain.
A few weeks ago North Korea had a failed launch of a rocket. The state-sanctioned media reported to the North Korean people, however, that it was a success. We around the world knew differently. But how far are we from that point in our country when our own media is so determined to be cautious in their reports of who they favor?
I for one believe in God, country and loving my neighbor as myself. I weigh all my decisions against these values - the ones carefully and diligently cultivatied by my parents. When we relent any of our beliefs, particularly when we do so not necessarily do so with intent, but more scurrioulsy, without intention and diligence at all, it is a terrible thing. Freedom and liberty do not have children or grandchildren - it is something we all are adopted into through determination in every generation.
I think that current journalism practice is an example of a mob-mentality and lack of personal integrity. I am so saddened that we have drifted so far from our country's founding values.
The basic principals set up by our Constitution was to provide a way to become a more perfect union. The implication was to become more noble - not less. We proved that potential under President Lincoln with the abolishment of slavery, then again later with the voting rights to women and finally to all persons regardless of race or creed. That is because that is how God sees us and that is the intention of the Constitution.
How then are two of our nations current Constutional systems, government and freedom of speech - or for our purpose here, freedom of the press, even remotely more noble now that when we first started? Our current "news" sources more often promote political persons who only want to promote themselves. It is a complete cycle of self-indulgence.
I'm saddened that regardless of what I read or listen to in our modern and most easily accessible news sources, that I must always first determine their agenda politically.
I would also say that I disagree with the statement of Stacey above regarding the refinement of news agency's by popularity. If that were true, MSNBC would have died long ago. Instead, those with monetary resources that desire to promote the political agendas espoused on said networks will contine to prop up whatever or whomever they choose - and there are too many that are not wise enough to discern the difference.
a resident of Vintage Hills Elementary School
on Apr 21, 2009 at 6:07 pm
MainStreetDiva is a registered user.
I also (respectfully) disagree with Stacey re: Fox news, for the same reason. MSNBC gets my vote for most spin.
In London, the newspapers don't even pretend to be objective. Both main political sides have their own daily 'rag' and are very upfront and rather passionate about their biases.
We used to subscribe to five daily newspapers just to get the full story on major news stories and policial issues. It's easy to see the spin by comparing two articles side-by-side--you really see the differences. It's also quite telling to see *where* each paper places stories. A story which one paper places on the front page may be buried near the bottom of page 7 in another paper (or not run at all).
We finally gave up the SF Chronicle because of their consistent liberal spin, although we really miss their Science reporting. We also gave up the SJ Murky News. We ended up with the Valley Times (for local news), the PW, and the WS Journal (for international and business news). Plus various online sources, of course.
I worry most about those who prefer 'sound bites' instead of a detailed analysis of issues. If your main mode of communication is, say, texting or tweeting, are you likely to seek out the details of how we got where we are, who got us to this point, and the ramifications of the various solutions on different factions or industries or market segments?
Perhaps those who mainly skim a headline and watch a 60-second news segment tend to inherit the partially-hidden bias of the news source. Those who tend to read thoroughly from a variety of sources (print and online) may tend to get a bigger and broader picture, may discover and analyze the discrepancies and/or spin, and may make up their own minds.
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Apr 21, 2009 at 8:15 pm
Stacey is a registered user.
I wouldn't know about MSNBC. Fox News is the channel on constantly at the in-laws' house.
a resident of Downtown
on Apr 21, 2009 at 11:37 pm
Investigative reporting? To what end? To find out the truth and report it to the public? The bad guys are always a step ahead of the good guys. Just like the steroid users are just a bit more sophisticated than the guys who are trying to catch them.
Somewhere along the line here recently, the "truth," became a game or a toy, something to be played with. Two examples: OJ killed his wife, Johnnie Cochran penned a few puns, out-lawyered The People, and OJ was aquitted. What good was the truth? Even with something as serious as murder, the facts and the truth didn't matter.
Then our clever President, the Rhodes-Scholared one, the one with the clever wife, the one we liked, smirked into a camera and asked, "It depends on what your definition of 'is' is..."
Our justice system can't lock up murderers, and our President won't hold himself accountable to a definition of "is." God help the media...
(Can I use the word "God?") And did somebody mention a dead horse? I'll take a whack!
a resident of Del Prado
on Apr 22, 2009 at 10:44 am
The NY Times was once a respectable newspaper with integrity in its reporting, making it a good watchdog. Sadly, this is no longer the case as this newspaper is now a propaganda rag very biased in its reporting and politics...There are many things that go unreported due to this bias.For instance, they report Abu Grab as a front page story for 3 weeks straight when this news broke but how often do you find a story in the NY Times about some of heroes like those awarded Medals of Honor for the courage and brave actions in this war. You need to look long and hard for anything in the NY Times for coverage on things that counter with their agenda which is why I don't use it as a source of news....Perhaps the public is becoming wise, in the marketplace of ideas and reporting, publications like the NY Times and broadcasts like MSNBC may be becoming dinosaurs since they report with the motive to drive public opinions and attitudes rather than just cover the news and report all the facts.
a resident of Del Prado
on Apr 22, 2009 at 10:54 am
Regarding MSNBC, remember Chris Matthews' public statements regarding Obama...
1. That before Obama was elected, Matthews said he had a "tingly feeling running up his leg" every time Obama spoke.
2. That after Obama was elected, that Matthews now felt it was "HIS ROLE ON MSNBC" to help see that Obama SUCCEEDS.
Some "independent professional journalism" on glaring display here!
GINA...INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISM by the mainstream media -- including the main metro newspapers -- DIED during this Presidential election.
president of the Pleasanton Weekly
on Apr 22, 2009 at 11:52 am
Gina Channell-Allen is a registered user.
Thank you all for contributing to this conversation.
Surprised?, Dominic, Amy, Jack, et. al, I agree that the state of investigative journalism currently borders between sorry and pathetic. However, there is still a semblance of investigative journalism. Just within the past few months the Chicago Tribune and the Sun-Times have done investigative pieces that eventually led to the impeachment of the governor, Rod Blagojevich. However, since that time the Trib has had a layoff of newsroom employees and the Sun-Times has had two rounds of newsroom layoffs and filed for bankruptcy.
My concern is this: If journalism is suffering now, what will happen when there are no journalists willing and able to dig, question and challenge government and other institutions because the media companies can't afford to pay them. Yahoo and Google are only aggregates – they don't do any reporting, just pull it from other sources.
Obviously we here on the PLW Town Square are not the only ones concerned about this. I am going to register for the seminar Stacey referenced earlier. Please keep the conversation going.
Oh, and MSNBC? See my column from Sept. 12, 2008. Web Link
a resident of Del Prado
on Apr 22, 2009 at 12:38 pm
The seminar at Stanford that Stacey referenced looks like a good one. Certainly there needs to be a radical overhaul in the media about quality investigative journalism. I, for one, have no problem with biased sources...as long as people (and/or organizations) reveal upfront what their biases are. Given how important the issues are these days, I find it hard for anyone to remain "independent" and not reveal their values and biases. Most consumers can read people's biases pretty well over time.
Here is a videoclip, for those who have not yet seen it about the sorry state of journalism today. It is a reporter (who has every right to be asking questions as he tries to do) who is handcuffed at USC School of Journalism where Katie Couric is about to receive the "Walter Cronkite Award" for her "unbiased" interview of Sarah Palin! Imagine that!!!
Walter Cronkite was the most liberal reporter who had no competition (like talk radio and other alternative sources) and who may have had a very very major role (whether deliberately or not) in America's defeat in Vietnam.
Here is the AMAZING videoclip.
Web Link
a resident of Mohr Elementary School
on Apr 22, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Hi Gina and thanks for starting this string and I have some observations on the issue. When I was a kid our choices were Huntley/Brinkley, Walter Chronkite etc. and they in my estimation were objective and the consummate professionals. I have seen some of their tapes in the last few years and listening to them and watching them it was impossible to tell how they personally felt on an issue and were just reporting the facts.
As I grew up and mostly within the last 15 years reporting or media has evolved from reporting the facts to promoting the cause of the the particular network or personality. Written print is the worst and hence I believe you seeing people wanting to be really educated on the facts and as such they bounce around on the net to validate facts.
I am currently on an assignment in Canada and I have access to CNN, BBC, MSNBC, CNBC, CTV (Canadian television), Fox, and Global. I can tell you that you can flip from channel to channel to follow the same story and each one paints a different story and lend their own opinion. BBC and MSNBC come off as american haters. I would say CNN and Fox are the most consistent in reporting but it seems as if CNN has fallen woefully behind Fox and come off as envious of the network. NBC, CBS, and ABC are now so tainted I do not even flip to the channels anymore.
a resident of Mohr Elementary School
on Apr 22, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Gina as a point of clarification I was referring to the young Chronkite. When he got older he became tainted and no longer really read the news but tried to craft I felt.
a resident of Val Vista
on Apr 22, 2009 at 3:40 pm
Parent of Two is a registered user.
I think the disconnect is that you put weight and credibility in an archaic and disingenuous award like the "Pulitzer Prize". It's an exercise in self-congratulatory elbow-rubbing. Outside of your "journalistic" brethren, nobody cares about them. More people care about the freaking "People's Choice Awards" or the "Razzies".
And the quotes around "journalistic" are deliberate. Newspapers have become attention-whores, substituting sensationalism and propaganda for NEWS. They're competing with blogs, cable TV, message boards, and the entire Internet for relevance... and losing, at least partially because the editors don't restrict the writers to NEWS, and allow it to become commentary. Remember when they used to have an Op-Ed page? Now it's the whole paper.
You know what's sad? The USA Today used to be kind of a joke, because of the lowbrow charts and the simple way of presenting world information. But they might well end up being the last paper standing... "All the news that's fit to print" meant nothing when everyone realized that meant "All the news that fits our world view".
a resident of California Somerset
on Apr 22, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Parent of Two...c'mon. All newspapers are not attention whores and for you to characterize them all that way is silly. I think our local papers do a pretty good job of reporting the news. And when I say local I mean local. Not the SF chron or the mercury. I think the pw does a pretty good job. And the times. I don't think they're all sensationalistic etc. I'll take my local paper overthose any day.
That said, on the original topic, i don't see how local papers can do investigative journalism. They're shortstaffed and working just to cover events that are happening. There's no time to go hunting pulitzers when you have to put out a good product every week.
a resident of Amberwood/Wood Meadows
on Apr 22, 2009 at 8:56 pm
Stacey is a registered user.
The MIT/Stanford Venture Lab panels are really interesting. They usually pick out good panelists. Glad to hear you're going.
a resident of Del Prado
on Apr 23, 2009 at 7:08 am
Gina (et al)...
What is your reaction to the incident I mentioned earlier that occurred at the USC Dept. of Journalism?
Here is the link again...
Web Link
a resident of Fairlands Elementary School
on Apr 23, 2009 at 10:21 pm
I actually saw this earlier this week (the video) and it is what I referred to above. Thanks for the link, it asks for a "Digg" password, but if you keep hitting "cancel" it eventually let's you in. Maybe that is why the others haven't responded.
I was shocked to learn today that Jeffrey Immelt, CEO of GE (A corporation that is moving in the direction of producing wind turbines for alternative energy - needing goverment subsidies, etc), the same GE that owns NBC/Universal and all the NBC cabel labels (MS, CNBC, etc, so he, and Jeff Zucker, President of NBC, visited CNBC to tell them to stop any criticism of the Obama Administration.
Basicall, NBC news was purposeful in electing Obama. Now they are purposeful to help him succeed and not showing any criticism of his policies. Is anyone then surprised that they are in a business that is seeking major government contracts for alternative energy, the very focus of the Obama administration.
<embed type='application/x-shockwave-flash' src='Web Link; id='mediumFlashEmbedded' pluginspage='Web Link; bgcolor='#000000' allowScriptAccess='always' allowFullScreen='true' quality='high' name='oreillyPlayer' play='false' scale='noscale' menu='false' salign='LT' scriptAccess='always' wmode='false' height='354' width='385' flashvars='playerId=oreillyhomeplayer&referralObject=4545921&referralPlaylistId=bbeb11095dff273e354ffbd0dfa4c070c9e8730b' />
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Apr 23, 2009 at 10:25 pm
My Web link above didn't take, try this
Web Link
Go to the talking points section, and click on "Will GE get paid for supporting Obama?"
It shows the terrible guests on NBC cable networks and also the GE CEO getting boo'ed at a GE Investors meeting.
a resident of Country Fair
on Apr 24, 2009 at 12:11 am
tax revolt 2 is a registered user.
Gina - If you would hire good staff that can do investigative journalism on PUSD and the City (instead of paying outside consultants to redesign the look) then I would be glad to pay a subscription fee.
As for your Ayn Rand question... Atlas Shrugged should not be required reading for everyone. It takes a certain level of patience and understanding of how the world works to conquer that tome.
a resident of Highland Oaks
on Apr 30, 2009 at 5:50 pm
Posted by resident, a resident of the Downtown neighborhood, on Apr 21, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Ms. Channell-Allen, you bring up an interesting point. Is it not also a fact that when editors run amok (as did Mr. Bing with his "outing" of a writer whose identity was compromised in violation of your policies) they owe the readers an apology? YOU apologized for him, Jeb continues on with business as usual. The result is less credibility for newspapers in general, your in particular.
Posted by Gina Channell-Allen, president of the Pleasanton Weekly, on Apr 21, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Gina Channell-Allen is a member (registered user) of Pleasanton Weekly
Resident, We are trying to have an intelligent conversation about the topic at hand, which is funding of journalism. Please move to the thread that was posted a few weeks ago if you would like to beat that dead horse.
Actually, Gina, Resident makes a valid point. Credibility is key to the survival of any business. If you lose it, arguing that lost ad revenue undermines quality, while true, misses the point.
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Aug 12, 2009 at 4:41 pm
Hi There :) How about something new to read in your "Publishers Blog?"
a resident of Downtown
on Sep 22, 2009 at 7:13 pm
What truly is journalism?
What truly is truth?
What is 'is'? (Whoops, dealt with that a couple of administrations ago.)
What it is? (cliché, really)
I think journalists should be paid exclusively on commission -- their pay purely a function of the Editor in Chief's blood pressure... Kick in the blood pressure of the publisher, too, as a bonus.
So, the 'better' the story (for us readers) the more the journalist makes... Of course, journalists may go overboard, and Editor in Chiefs may start dropping like flies from heart attacks.
Well, then, there's a silver lining!
This will create lots of job openings for all those highest paid journalists who were axed because they were the highest paid!
Life is like a circle, you know. (I'm a scholar of Disney..)
The Circle of Strife!!
Lying King!
The New York Times??!
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text: I can't believe it's been 6 years our coach has been gone from us 2.12.2000. He's the reason this team is what it is. Why a lot of us are fans of the Cowboys. 29 years as the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys. 13 division titles, 5 super bowls and 2 world championships. You don't find coaches better then that. Tom Landry and Peanuts creator Charles Schulz died the same day (February 12, 2000) __________________ optimistic adj 1: expecting the best in this best of all possible worlds; "in an optimistic mood"; "optimistic plans"; "took an optimistic view" [ant: pessimistic] 2: expecting the best; "an affirmative outlook" [syn: affirmative]


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Home › Forums › Scouting › Backpacking Light with Scouts › tents for scouts
Feb 15, 2013 at 2:44 pm #1299308
what are some good tents for scouts, and places to get them? I'm thinking 2 man, sub 4 pound, full mesh with floor. We need mosquito protection. Some of our tents now are 6 pound domes, better for car camping. The small scouts could really use a lighter tent. I'm thinking to not include a foot print, because is it heavy and we don't wear out tents at the floor, we break zippers or rip mesh.Feb 15, 2013 at 3:02 pm #1954817
Eric JohnsonBPL Member
@unimogLocale: Utah
Alps Mountaineering. Their backpacking tents, several 2 person models are around 5 lbs and have a lifetime guarantee. They have a discount program for authorized scout troops to purchase. Send me a PM if you don't know about the program.Feb 15, 2013 at 3:44 pm #1954839
M BMember
Alps is good stuff. But it is heavy. Suited for car camping mostly IMO, not backpacking.
No shortage of decent quality 2P tents in the 4lb range.
I like silnylon mids, like Oware. Versatile and can be used with or without a net inner.
Not especially cheap, mind you. If cheap is the only goal.
But it doesnt get simpler or quicker to erect. Gets more complicated to erect the tent underneath if do it after the canopy, but it is possible. So it can be set up in rain if need be too.
A 9×9 mid and net inner with 30D floor, can sleep 4 scouts, and weigh about 0.75 lb per scout for backpacking if use trek poles to support.
It doesnt get any lighter, or pack any smaller. A 10×10 with slightly smaller inner underneath and offset to rear, can provide the same, with some covered area left for shoes and packs.Feb 15, 2013 at 4:25 pm #1954858
ManfredBPL Member
Our troop has used Betamid and Betalights from Black Diamond as outer tent with a Beta Bug Tent as inner tent.
The Betamid is made from 30d urethane coated nylon and comes with taped seams. It weighs 36 oz. The Betalight is made from 30d SilNylon (you need to seal the seams) and weighs almost only half of the Betamid (19 oz). Both tents use the Beta Bug as an inner that weighs 29 oz – so the total is either 3 lbs or 4 lbs 11 oz. This setup allows our scouts to bring only the outer (Betamid or Betalight) with a polycryo groundsheet when there are no issues with bugs. Of course such a tent works only with trekking poles. Going to a 3 lbs double walled tent was big progress for our scouts. Having the opportunity to use it as a 19 oz tarp tent made it an even better experience.
Best Regards,
P.S.: Once the scouts got used to just bringing the outer tent, other tarp tent vendors became an option too. One example we use is the Silnylon Haven from Sixmoon Designs. It is the same material and roughly the same weight (18 oz) as the Beta Light. The inner net for it is only half the weight of the Beta Bug (14 oz), but it is made from 30d SilNylon instead of 70d as the Beta Bug. The opinions of the scouts about the Betalight and the Haven are split. Some prefer the clear demarkation line of the Betalight with the poles between them. Others prefer each having their own door with the Haven and no poles between them.Feb 17, 2013 at 7:11 pm #1955473
I'll do some checking on those and we'll try something new. So with the tents mentioned, you bring a ground cloth to fit the tent, or each scout bring their own sheet? These are non-floor tents I take it?Feb 17, 2013 at 7:24 pm #1955478
Luke SchmidtSpectator
@cameronLocale: Idaho Falls
I believe several of the tents mentioned (Betamid for example) are floorless if you don't use the inner bug net. I have not used the really big "mids" but I have a friend in Colorado who likes them very much for the wilderness program he runs. I ran into another group in Colorado that was also using them for teenagers.
Floorless tents can work just fine as long as scouts are aware of a minor detail. This might seem like it fits under the "Well duh" category but I'll post it anyway.
1. Ground clothes are not bathtube floors. If you are worried about water running under the tent put rocks or peices of wood under the uphill side of the ground cloth. That way any water that runs down into the ground cloth will go under it rather the on top of it.
2. Keep ground clothes UNDER the tarp. If the ground cloth sticks out from under the tarp it will collect all the water that runs off the tarp and channel it down to you. It may sound obvious but my friends had this happen.Feb 17, 2013 at 7:27 pm #1955480
Luke SchmidtSpectator
@cameronLocale: Idaho Falls
Are you anywhere near and REI? They have relatively light tents but they aren't cheap. BUT if you go to a garage sale you might snag some deals. I'd come up with a list of all the tents that would work from REI. Get several adults who are members and shop together.Feb 18, 2013 at 6:49 am #1955544
ManfredBPL Member
We have done both. Black diamond offers a bathtub for the Betamid/Betalight.- called Beta Floor. It weighs 20 oz. one scout would carry the tent and the other carries the floor. Both would carry roughly the same weight with 19 and 20 oz each. Over time 2 individual polycryo ground sheets of 2 oz each have replaced the Beta Floor in most situations. They have the advantage of allowing easy cowboy camping when the scouts feel like it. The disadvantage is that they require more careful placement under the tarp tent to avoid water running from the tent onto the ground sheet.
Best Regards,
ManfredFeb 18, 2013 at 1:48 pm #1955681
James TisdaleSpectator
@jameytLocale: PaNW
We've got some of the heavy, bomb-proof Alps tents as Troop gear. Most of the Scouts have moved on to hammock camping as a lighter alternative. This proves effective about 8-9 months out of the year when it's warm enough that most of the guys can rig up a homemade underquilt or easily use a pad.Feb 18, 2013 at 11:09 pm #1955902
Michael DriscollBPL Member
@hillhikerzLocale: Monterey Bay
I like the MSR Hubba Hubba 2P Tent… yes it is 300 with a coupon but is only to be used on backpacking trips and care needs to be taken with them… plus points good vent., great rain fly, 2lbs each, excellent rain protection… a good tent is a safety issue and gives peace of mind to the 2 deep leadership… yes there are other options, weight, price, ease of setup, life span, bugs and weather… the ? is what does your Troop need… where will you be going in the future, backpacking wise… Troop and scout age… Leadership and there experience level… my .02$…
PS:use ploycro for a footprint helps with tent life span, waterproofness, light & small…Feb 19, 2013 at 2:03 pm #1956104
Erik BasilBPL Member
@ebasilLocale: Atzlan
We're using the Alps Mountaineering Zephyr 3 as our troop tents and this 5.5lb tent is "backpackable": it splits into three roughly equal components and will fit three Scouts. It's got two side doors, under significant vestibule alcoves and the inner body is mostly mesh. Like Alps stuff, they're beefier than my personal gear, but they will hold up. By adding another Scout to the tent equation, the weight becomes quite manageable. Using the Scout discount, they're very cost effective.
For car camping, we use the ALPS footprints, but we use thin painter's visqueen for backpacking (and toss 'em afterward if they're perforated). The footprint does allow the boys to set the tent with just the footprint, fly and poles if they want to. There ain't no way we're goin' to Mosquito Central without those inner tents, so thin plastic is the call for the High Sierra.Mar 7, 2013 at 10:13 am #1962672
Dan LeeBPL Member
@scoutbuffLocale: Colorado
I haven't used them but have been intrigued by the Appy Trails shelters. My crew considered them for Philmont but opted to use what we already had (Alps Lynx 2s).
They are advertised as tents but many would call them shaped tarps. No floor, single wall but light and inexpensive. Check them out at appytrails.com, can be purchased through Campmor.com.
-DanMar 8, 2013 at 9:11 pm #1963333
Greg FBPL Member
@gregfLocale: Canadian Rockies
The six moon designs lunar duo outfitter might be a good option if your troop uses trekking poles. 3lb 9oz. They are pretty cheap at 160. Even with added poles you can stay under 4 lbs.Mar 17, 2013 at 4:26 pm #1966768
Jay LashBPL Member
I used a Lunar Duo at Philmont last year. I liked it with a couple of caveats – It takes some practice to set it up well and quickly. We only had rain one day and it was done by the time we got to camp so dont know how well it does in rain or wind. The only downside is that it is all one piece so you have to split the weight by shuffling something else to your hiking buddy.Apr 21, 2013 at 4:14 am #1978932
John in OHBPL Member
If you are willing to go with 4 person tents, the Mountainsmith Genesee is 6#5oz for 4-5 kids (we fit my wife and I and our 10 and 7 year old kids with our dog and gear). You could probably cut half a pound off that by removing the door flaps and leaving just the screen doors. At $199 at BackcountryEdge (but maybe cheaper other places, they just have a good video of it) it's only $50 and 1.5 pounds per person.Apr 30, 2013 at 8:53 am #1981905
I looked at a friend's OR Night Haven 2, and it was very nice. The tent and stakes (no floor) were 2 lb 9 oz, would sleep two nicely. The floor is clip in (or out) and brings the weight to 3 lb 5 oz. The door has a mesh layer, and around the base of the fly is a 6" flap what would help keep the bugs out. You could put gear on it to weight it down. It sets up with hiking poles, and if one didn't have hiking poles some sticks could be cut to fit.Apr 30, 2013 at 12:31 pm #1981996
I'm seeing the Lunar Duo for $310 on the Lunar site. Where do you get it for $160?
BobApr 30, 2013 at 12:43 pm #1982000
Ken LarsonBPL Member
@kenlarsonLocale: Western MichiganMay 1, 2013 at 8:26 am #1982226
Sarah KuhnBPL Member
@sckuhnLocale: Mountainous Ohio
Bob –
It's available direct from SMD, see link below. It is a polyester version, not Silnylon.
I used the Explorer version in 2012 (the silnylon version). Amazing space for 2 people on a 'normal trip', exceptional space for 2 at Philmont considering that you don't take ANY of your gear into your tent.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.


text:
Sommerness named Teacher of the Year
Mike Sommerness, Pequot Lakes middle level and high school band teacher, was named 2013 Teacher of the Year by his peers on Tuesday, May 28.
Following the announcement, three students played a tune from the balcony over the cafeteria where staff gathered at Eagle View Elementary School.
Karen Jacobson, choir teacher at Pequot Lakes High School who works alongside Sommerness, said the school is "privileged to have a teacher of his caliber."
"He not only knows and loves his craft, but he willingly shares that skill and that love with each student," Jacobson said.
Andrea Besnett is the school's classroom music teacher who also works with Sommerness.
"Mike uses music to teach kids about life," she said. "The love that he has for kids makes those lessons come easily through him."
Sommerness has been teaching at Pequot Lakes for nine years. He works with many different ensemble and community groups, including jazz band, jazz combo, Greater Lakes Area Performing Arts music, band in the park and more.
Other nominees for Teacher of the Year included Allison Reigel, first-grade teacher; Nikki Stark, high school math and chemistry teacher; and Megan Zierden, first-grade teacher.


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May 8, 2014
Last week's sentencing of a Knoxville man with ties to Breckenridge on possession of child pornography charges was rescheduled for 10 a.m. May 16 in U.S. District Court for the eastern district of Tennessee in Knoxville.
Bruce Downsbrough, a former chief executive officer of the University of Tennessee Foundation, was scheduled to appear Thursday, March 13 in U.S. district court for sentencing. He pleaded guilty in November 2013 to knowingly receiving material containing child pornography, which carries a sentence of five to 20 years in prison and a fine of up to $250,000.
Downsbrough also pleaded guilty to knowingly possessing child pornography, which carries a sentence of up to 10 years in prison and a fine of up to $250,000. In exchange for the guilty pleas two additional charges against Downsbrough have been dropped.
The charges against Downsbrough, who owns two lots in the Valley of the Blue subdivision in Breckenridge, according to Summit County Assessor's Office data, stem from an investigation that began in 2012. In November of that year U.S. Postal Service agent John Bowden and Knoxville Police Department investigator Tom Evans executed a search warrant of Downsbrough's home, according to court records.
During the search, Department of Justice officials seized more than 20,000 child pornography images and movies the former UT official downloaded from the Internet or received in the mail, according to court records.
During a follow-up interview at his University of Tennessee office, Downsbrough told the investigators he had pleaded guilty in 1986 to molesting two boys in Colorado, according to Evans' court testimony last year.
Downsbrough pleaded guilty in those two cases to sexual assault on a child and sexual assault in the third degree in Boulder District Court. The victims in both cases were young boys, according to court records.
Downsbrough was granted a two-year deferred sentence in one case, according to court records. He was sentenced to two years probation in the second.
Although Downsbrough was allowed to keep his job during the initial stages of the investigation, he was terminated from his position as University of Tennessee Foundation CEO in May 2013 when a federal grand jury returned a four-count indictment against him.
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