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Home › Forums › Gear Forums › Gear (General) › My SuperCat Stove blows out. Defective windscreen?
Oct 3, 2013 at 9:56 pm #1308340
I have a traditional self-made aluminum flashing windscreen for my SuperCat stove, and on a recent windy morning I could not keep the stove lit due to wind. My alum flashing windscreen has relatively small 1/4" holes along the base of the screen, about 5/16 from bottom edge to center of the 37 vent holes…in other words, relatively small holes that are pretty close to the base of the windscreen. I'm thinking that should be reasonably effective in breaking up direct wind, and errs on the side of holes that are too small for a SuperCat, if anything. (SuperCats need loads of air.) The screen is 2-1/4" tall so it nests inside a Grease Pot.
I've been pondering my windscreen problem.
I was reading some of Zelph's old posts. One in particular, where he noticed how screen door mesh really cut down on a brisk wind. Has anyone tried just plain mesh for a windscreen…if so, what happens? I imagine you'd lose a lot of the reflective nature of the windscreen with all mesh, but does an all-mesh windscreen tame the wind, with its much much smaller holes?
I've also considered somehow affixing a strip of screen just around the holes of my alum flash windscreen, to baffle the air even further.
I've also considered making a plain, short (1" high), unperforated inner ring of flashing, sitting perhaps a quarter inch inside my existing windscreen, whose job it is to simply break up any direct wind coming through the 1/4" holes.
Another fix, which I don't want to contemplate, is making a taller windscreen that doesn't nest.
Ideas? Are my descriptions clear, do I need to post photos?Oct 3, 2013 at 10:13 pm #2030712
Can you estimate the distance from the top lip of the cook pot to the windscreen?
–B.G.–Oct 3, 2013 at 10:17 pm #2030714
When pot on SuperCat, there's 2" of pot visible above the top of the screen. If I make a taller screen, no more nesting. :-(
Are you thinking wind coming in over the top of the screen, and blowing down, was the problem? That would indicate cinching up the windscreen more tightly around the stove. SuperCats are "big breathers" so you don't get the option of cinching it up too tight, but typically I have 1/4" between the screen and the pot, all the way around. Not good?Oct 3, 2013 at 10:31 pm #2030722
I was a little surprised to see this.
Some people use a short windscreen like this, and it keeps the wind off the flame area and that's all.
I always use a tall windscreen, and it comes up to the height of the cook pot on the burner. That keeps the wind off the flame area, and it also keeps the wind off the cook pot. That seems to be much more efficient, heat-wise. It holds more exhaust heat around the cook pot.
The space between the top of the cook pot and the top of the tall windscreen varies, but it is generally equal to the size of my index finger or maybe one centimeter.
–B.G.–Oct 3, 2013 at 11:00 pm #2030727
I'm certain you're correct, Bob, a taller screen would add efficiency. I cut it as you see it so it would nest inside the pot, under the pot's strainer. It's maximum height under that constraint. As is, I'm not complaining about efficiency, the 30 hole SuperCat is giving me 4-min boils for two cups of water on 3/4 oz alcohol, with flameout at 6 min. Part of the reason is the Grease Pot's wide circumference…the flame must dwell along the bottom of the pot a long time before going up the sides.* Other stoves can do better, efficiency wise, but I'm not complaining. I AM complaining about flame stability in wind, and keeping it lit.
One other possibility I'm considering is making myself a "SimmerCat," same stove with only one (top) row of holes. Such a stove would need less air, allowing a tighter windscreen around the circumference. Also the vertical distance between the holes of the windscreen and the holes of the stove would be greater. And, on top of that, I've been reading that slower stoves are generally more efficient. So maybe I need to make myself a new cat stove to get a more stable and dependable flame.
*Off topic, one "problem" of the grease pot, IMO, is that it's too tall, with too much capacity for solo. It's 4-1/2 cups. It would be nice to be able to re-roll the lip of a grease pot about an inch lower, to get a squat, wide pot. Can't beat the weight, though. These grease pots are lighter (and more conductive) than Ti. (Not to mention, $7 at Kmart).Oct 3, 2013 at 11:08 pm #2030729
"These grease pots are lighter (and more conductive) than Ti."
So far, that hasn't gotten you very far.
–B.G.–Oct 3, 2013 at 11:10 pm #2030730
What do you mean, Bob? The pot (and stove and screen) have functioned excellently for many dozens of meals. I'm complaining about one windy morning I couldn't keep it lit, which I attribute to the windscreen and stove (and perhaps my technique), rather than the pot. I'd say the pot's gotten me pretty durn far. But the pot is a side issue; I'm trying to fix my flameout problem, with an eye toward more windy days in the future. But let's not go so far as to assume abject failure, here.
(I should add, I DID get my breakfast that windy morning. I used my CCF sitpad as a windbreak, and all was well.)Oct 3, 2013 at 11:19 pm #2030732
I use a 1.8 ounce titanium bowl that holds 20 fluid ounces. It is thin enough that thermal conductivity is not a problem, but I use it primarily over an Esbit burner. I have four or five alcohol burners as well, but they don't hold much advantage for me. The 12-10 alcohol burner seems the best of the bunch.
If your windscreen is aluminum flashing metal, then there is a break in the circle. Try opening up the break so that there is a gap to let in more air. Either that will make it better or make it worse. That will tell you if it is an input air problem.
–B.G.–Oct 4, 2013 at 12:18 am #2030741
Mole JBPL Member
@moleLocale: UK
If a taller screen is needed (probably the case), then a nesting one can still be made. Just make it in 2 pieces – i.e. add an extension top half which you can sit on the existing screen. Join them by cutting matching slots/castellations in each piece. Sounds like you will only need the top piece occasionally.Oct 4, 2013 at 5:13 am #2030757
J RBPL Member
I'm not sure about the singular focus on the height of your windscreen as the source of the problem. Maybe, but what about the simple possibility that the intake holes facing the wind are letting too much in? I'd suggest trying the windscreen upside down, with the side facing the wind flat to the ground and using some small twigs or pebbles to prop open the bottom around the sides and back. Or, just use a bit of aluminum foil to block the holes facing the wind. If that works then you can investigate a way to block some of the holes more permanently.Oct 4, 2013 at 5:42 am #2030763
Dan YeruskiBPL Member
@zelphLocale: www.bplite.com
I would guess it was more windy than normal. Just one of those things that happen when out in the field. Use your pack and your body to block the wind on those exceptionally windy days.Oct 4, 2013 at 8:35 am #2030796
Hi Dan! Thanks for weighing in, hoped you would…what's the scoop on simply using a fine mesh screen as a windscreen?
PS: Recently ordered my first Zelph stove, a SimmerLyte (or whatever you are calling it), very excited. Thanks for the special BPL offer on those.Oct 4, 2013 at 9:29 am #2030809
James KleinBPL Member
@jnklein21Locale: Southeast
I bet is isn't the height of the windscreen.
I use a cone type windscreen. With the first one I made, I could blow out the stove inside the cone. The next iteration used paper-hole-punch sized holes and is much more difficult to blow out.
You could try to attach a strip of screen around your windscreen with a paper clip or maybe a run of shock cord/large rubberband.Oct 4, 2013 at 9:43 am #2030814
Dan also made a video showing how raising the bottom of the windscreen 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch off of the "ground" aided in flame stability. This would also allow for more air flow to feed the stove's flame.
Is it at all possible that your stove was being starved for air despite the windy conditions?
Party On,
Newton ;-)Oct 4, 2013 at 11:37 am #2030850
Dale WambaughBPL Member
@dwambaughLocale: Pacific Northwest
I would build another screen with no holes on one side and experiment with holes on the other. That way you can orient it to suit the wind direction. Or just add foil tape to yours.
The physics of alcohol stoves and pot size, air gaps, and air holes is a mystery to me. It seems like a lot of trial and error is needed.
+1 on using your pack, foam pad, etc as wind blocks.Oct 5, 2013 at 3:14 am #2030979
Steven McAllisterBPL Member
@brooklynkayakLocale: South West US
Screen does reduce wind gusts, but still allows good air flow.
It is common to use pantyhose/nylons stretched over a wire frame around microphones to reduce wind noise for outdoor recording.
Aluminum screen would work, specially double with a space in between, but at what weight?
I have used my sleeping pad formed into a big wind block tube during extreme wind.Oct 5, 2013 at 2:09 pm #2031059
Christopher *BPL Member
@cfrey-0Locale: US East Coast
My first blush response would be to agree that the problem is not enough air.
Wind rushing past those small evenly spaced holes in your screen may be setting up something akin to a venturi siphon, sucking the air out of your system. Add in the fact that the lingering combustion gases across the bottom of your wide pot are looking for an exit and … well who knows. I'm just spitballing. I don't think a taller screen is the answer though. I think it was Tony Beasley (here or on BPLITE) who showed that as combustion gases rise and cool, if you entrap them too long they can actually steal heat from the sides of your pot. I'm just repeating (poorly) what he said though, with no proof one way or the other.
You might want to play with varying the hole size and height of your vents relative to one another. Good Luck. I'd be interested in hearing how you make out.Oct 5, 2013 at 5:26 pm #2031098
Thanks for the interesting leads, folks. I had not considered "air starvation" on a windy day as a possible cause.
I tried to repeat the effect in my home kitchen by setting up an 18" Patton fan (no small fan) and set the fan on medium (no small wind) and placed it 7 feet from my stove. This gave me a blustery test area. Turned off the overhead lights so I could see the flame. Used the same windscreen as before, but set it a little tighter, maybe 1/4" space all around. (I believe I had set it at maybe 1/2" all around when I got my failure.) The flame danced about plenty, but did not extinguish. So, puzzled, still. In previous testing, the SuperCat has been very sensitive to "screen too close" so my impulse is to leave the windscreen relatively loose around.
I'm curious about the comment on the even spacing of the holes. That makes a difference?? Is it better to have holes randomly spaced? Oval?
What about even more, even smaller holes? In effect, making my own screen?
Regards the idea of holes in one side of the windscreen and none on the other: that occurred to me too, and I made a screen like that. It was a failure; the flame would burn brightly only on one side of the stove (the side with the screen's holes), and I got an anemic weak flame on the side of the windscreen with no holes. A severely asymmetrical flame. Clearly this SuperCat wants to breathe, and breathe heavily.Oct 6, 2013 at 5:50 am #2031184
Here is the link to the video that Dan / Zelph made that shows and explains the idea of raising the windscreen much better than I could.
FWIW here is a picture of my version of a MYOG aluminum flashing windscreen in which I incorporated Dan's idea of a raised windscreen.
A windscreen like this will allow air to feed the stove flame but you may still need to use your pack and or foam pad as a wind blocker on those blustery days on the trail.
Party On,
Newton ;-)Oct 7, 2013 at 5:44 am #2031450
Alpine DadSpectator
Thanks for posting that video link John. I am going to have to redesign my windscreen now.
CheersOct 7, 2013 at 7:01 am #2031461
Yes, interesting video.
Are there "rules" regarding good windscreen design for an alcohol stove? Or is it all controversial, trial and error?Oct 7, 2013 at 1:04 pm #2031546
The fire triangle consists of fuel, heat and oxygen to support combustion.
Different stoves like different carburetors on engines, (I'm and old guy) require "tuning".
You can adjust the size of the "jets" on a stove and you can adjust the airflow with the windscreen.
Add in to the equation that when the stove achieves optimum temperature things work well if the airflow is right. Let the stove overheat and efficiency is lost and fuel is wasted with a rapid burn and flame out.
Short answer is Trial and Error. ;-)
Party On,
NewtonOct 7, 2013 at 2:30 pm #2031566
Roger CaffinModerator
@rcaffinLocale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
> Are there "rules" regarding good windscreen design for an alcohol stove?
Yes. They do NOT like any wind.
CheersOct 7, 2013 at 2:35 pm #2031568
"They do NOT like any wind."
However, there needs to be a steady intake air supply.
–B.G.–Oct 7, 2013 at 7:11 pm #2031682
Corbin McFarlaneBPL Member
A few other things to consider based on my use of a super cat stove:
– Cold Fuel. I recently had a similar problem, on a windy day barely above freezing. I think one of the biggest problems was that both stove and fuel were about 35F. It's probably a good idea to keep both in an inside pocket if wind chill temp drops below 50F, in fact I think this may be the biggest problem below that point.
-Placement. I find it's better to brush off combustible materials and place the stove in a hollow in the ground, than it is to place it on an elevated flat rock. Wind speed decreases exponentially towards the ground, so even a few inches makes a difference. Plus, it will effectively make your windscreen taller.
-Cat can hole size. The original instructions suggest 3/16" is more wind resistant than 1/4". I find it boosts efficiency too (I estimate 15%). However, a good 3/16 hole punch is probably about $7.
-Black. Painting the stove and the bottom/lower sides of the pot with black barbeque paint increases efficiency (I estimate another 10-15%). It also allows the stove to absorb additional heat, thus forcing the gas out with greater pressure, thus making it more wind resistant. I find scotch tape makes a nice run-free mask (better than masking tape) to make a beautiful black edge that ends just where the bottom of the pot starts curving, then tape newspaper on to protect the rest of the pot. BBQ paint is about $5.
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Lol wow. All things considered I am ready for titan to speed along some price drops for the 670 and 680. The numbers I have seen are impressive for a single gpu but not enough to justify double the cost of a 680. I think the sli 670 and 680 are going to be the sweet spot for a little bit if we see even slight price drops.
Dates been pushed back to the 19th.
If this thing is value anywhere over $1000, then I don't think it's a good buy. It only outperforms the 680/7970 buy 30%, but will cost more than double of one (most likely).
You're getting it cause your an OT baller
At the time of the GK110 launch at GTC, we didn't know if and when GK110 would ever make it down to consumer hands. From a practical perspective GTX 680 was still clearly in the lead over AMD's Radeon HD 7970. Meanwhile the Titan supercomputer was a major contract for NVIDIA, and something they needed to prioritize. 18,688 551mm2 GPUs for a single customer is a very large order, and at the same time orders for Tesla K20 cards were continuing to pour in each and every day after GTC. In the end, yes, GK110 would come to the consumer market. But not until months later, after NVIDIA had the chance to start filling Tesla orders. And today is that day.
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I've heard AA isn't needed when running on 1440p or higher?
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Has anyone else noticed that MR has Winter 2008 as the ship time for the Boba Fett helmet?:( Are they talking winter 08 as in Jan/Feb or Nov/Dec? :confused
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Has anyone else noticed that MR has Winter 2008 as the ship time for the Boba Fett helmet?:( Are they talking winter 08 as in Jan/Feb or Nov/Dec? :confused
ya, and really winter goes until march or so.... :lol.....so they can take there sweet time.
next you will see srping of 09" up there :lol :lol :lol
i can't imagine why anyone is surprised by MR ship dates slipping... have they ever released a bucket on time? or right on the first try?
i really appreciate what they try to do, but the seem to fall flat the first few times they do anything.
yeah, I pretty much expected mine to be a few months behind schedule before I even ordered it.
:lol:lol:lolGOOD FREAKING NIGHT!!!:lol:lol:lol
So Shipping is winter now?
Why am I not suprised, I better get my number helmet and plaque this time.
Well you know it will have to be by March since that is when their contract says that they have to have all of their Star Wars stuff out of there.
The contract means nothing if they were licensed for the product in the past. They have full right to sell of the remaining product and finish and sell all of those in production. They just can't make anymore than the original run.
Of course, resellers will still be selling already-shipped MR products after that, but any unshipped SW items in MR's inventory after 3/31/08 would probably be destroyed, or sold to the next SW licensee, depending on the terms of the contract.


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Nearly 100 cats in poor health found inside Butte home
BUTTE, Mont. - A multi-agency investigation led authorities to find 100 cats locked inside a home in Butte this week.
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About 15 cats are still inside the home.
Butte-Silver Bow Animal Services workers are assessing each rescued cat's health to determine what type of care the cats need.
Police told us the house will likely be demolished. They are investigating the tenant who rents the home, and say he will likely be charged with animal abuse.


text: I have a frame of virgins in cages that I have been banking in a double high 5 frame queenless nuc for about a week, when I went in to check on them today most of the virgins were being ignored except for one, she was getting all the attention with a big cluster of bees attending to her on the cage. What would be the reason for that? Do they somehow prefer her to be their queen. All the virgins were the same age when banking them. John


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Fully-Equipped New Studio in Porto (BY CLÉRIGOS PURPLE Double Studio)
Size18 m²
Floor No.3
- Internet/WiFi
- Towels
Accommodation summary
|Rua de Trás, 4050-614 Porto, Portugal
|Property type
|Property ID
|Acceptance rate
|Response time
|1 day
|Calendar updated
The cosy studio offers a sunny living space with neutral white decor and stylish fittings. There is a double bed, wall-mounted TV and a cosy dining area by the window. Kitchen facilities such as a microwave and kettle are provided. The tiled bathroom includes a walk-in shower and luxury toiletries.
Guests benefit from the convenience of this central area with most main attractions within walking distance. The historic Clerigos Tower is situated right outside the building, whilst Porto Cathedral is just a 10-minute walk away.
Numerous bars, restaurants and shops can be found in the quaint streets surrounding the building. Guests can visit the nearby Livraria Lello Library, one of the most beautiful libraries in the world.
House rulesBe respectful of the neighbours and keep noise to a minimum after 10pm.
No smoking.
No pets.
Please treat the apartment as you would your own home.
|Check-in After
|Check-in before
|On arrangement
|Check-out Before
|Cancellation Policy
Reviews of this property
In the middle of Porto's old-city. Very nice house with sweet apartments. Upper floor offers a beatiful view over the city.
Nice, friendly and supportive host!
Mario is very cool and very helpful without being intrusive.
Just what suits me.
The studio is small but impeccable.
Mario est très cool et très serviable, sans être envahissant.
Juste ce qui me convient.
Le studio est petit mais impeccable.
Ideal apartment to spend a weekend in Porto. Super centrally located: 2 minutes from the best area of restaurants and bars for a drink. Also very close to the university. 10 minutes from the north of the city (municipality) and the banks of the river.
The apartment itself has the dimensions of the description. It is very clean, tidy and very welcoming. The bed is very comfortable. The room has piped music (radio) or speakers for iPhone 4.
Mario was very nice to us.
Ideal apartamento para pasar un fin de semana en Oporto. Ubicado en zona súper céntrica: a 2 minutos de la mejor zona de restaurantes y bares para tomarse algo. Muy cerca también de la universidad. A 10 minutos de la zona norte de la ciudad (ayuntamiento) y de la ribera del rio.
El apartamento en sí presenta las dimensiones de la descripción. Está muy limpio, ordenado y es muy acogedor. La cama es muy cómoda. La habitación dispone de hilo músical (radio) o de unos altavoces para iPhone 4.
Mario fue muy agradable con nosotros.
The studio has everything you need for a comfortable stay, but located in an area something hidden, something foreign to the host as of course.
O estúdio tem tudo o que é preciso para uma estadia confortável, porém localiza-se numa zona algo escondida, facto alheio ao anfitrião como é claro.
Very new and just for two people, is no longer needed. Very central.
Muy nuevo y justo para dos personas, no se necesita más. Muy céntrico.
We have felt very comfortable in the studio, it was well equipped, the central location was really great!
Wir haben uns sehr wohl im Studio gefühlt, es war gut ausgestattet, die zentrale Lage war wirklich super!
It's a very nice, clean and well-equipped studio, located in the historical center of Porto. (- it couldn't be better!) Mario and the ladies were kind and helpful, thank you for that. We had an excellent time here and we definitely recommend this apartement.
The studio is small, but never mind; everything was perfect: it is very well equipped, clean and the decoration is beautiful. Mario and his colleague are nice and helpful. We're so happy about staying at such a place!
A warm welcome, a prime location in the historical center where everything is visible distance.
The equipment of the apartment is excellent (soap, shampoo, tea)
All domestic appliances is effective
An address to recommend
Un accueil de qualité ,un emplacement de choix ,dans le centre historique où tout est visible à pied.
L'équipement de l'appartement est excellent (savon, shampoing, thé)
Tout l'électro- ménager est efficace
Une adresse à recommander
- Quality assured accommodation
- Every host is verified by telephone
- Secure payment via SSL encryption


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DAZZLED AND DECEIVED: Mimicry and Camouflage. Peter Forbes. xvi + 283 pp. Yale University Press, 2009. $27.50.
With few exceptions (the blue sky being one), the physical world is pretty drab—earth tones predominate. By contrast, living nature is profligate with color, and those colors often appear in patterns that catch the eye. How is it, then, that colorful creatures have survived, given that it presumably is not an advantage for predators and prey to advertise their presence to one another?
Charles Darwin had little to say about this paradox in On the Origin of Species. But he believed that natural selection, if correct, would be universally applicable, and he sought explanations for any apparent exceptions. So he was receptive when Henry Walter Bates initiated a correspondence shortly after the Origin appeared. Bates, who had spent much more time than Darwin in the Amazon, had noticed that butterflies of different lineages often exhibit almost indistinguishable color patterns. He theorized that defenseless species gained protection from potential predators by taking on the pattern and coloration of another species that has some sort of defense—a quality that makes it inedible, perhaps—for which its appearance serves as a warning. This process, now known as Batesian mimicry, confers a selective advantage as long as the mimicking species remains scarcer than its model.
Peter Forbes's Dazzled and Deceived, which is both a natural history and a cultural history of mimicry and camouflage, opens with a description of Bates's travels in the Amazon with Alfred Russel Wallace in 1848. Forbes then retells the story of the discovery of natural selection by Darwin and Wallace, giving an account of communications among the three naturalists and explicating their views on mimicry as they developed.
Bates noticed that it wasn't just the defenseless species that mimicked the unpalatable ones—unpalatable species mimicked each other. Another of Darwin's correspondents, zoologist Fritz Müller, recognized the principle operating in this situation—that there is an advantage to be gained if different species pool their mimetic resources. If several unpalatable species look alike, that will reduce the chance that any one of those species will lose many individuals to young predators who haven't learned yet to connect the warning coloration to bad-tasting prey. So to Batesian mimicry we add Müllerian mimicry and the general concept of mimetic complexes.
By the end of the 19th century, numerous examples of animals mimicking both plants and each other had come to light, and the notion was no longer novel. At the end of a long paragraph in The Butterfly Book (1898), the author, W. J. Holland, refers the curious reader to "the writings of Mr. Alfred Russel Wallace and Mr. Darwin, who have written at length upon mimicry among butterflies," making no mention of Bates or Müller. In his 1890 book The Colours of Animals, Edward Bagnall Poulton produced a general categorization of the biological roles of coloration, and the subject gained the attention of various anti-Darwinians—a sign then, as now, that it had attained main-scene status.
In the early part of the 20th century, geneticists' worries about how natural selection for mimesis might get under way made the picture muddier. In 1915, Reginald Punnett wrote a prescient book, Mimicry in Butterflies, in which he observed that many butterfly genera are not mimetic, because their developmental mechanisms do not facilitate the necessary pattern formation.
At this point the purview of Forbes's book expands beyond biology as he begins to discuss the ideas and work of the eccentric and opinionated New England painter, Abbot Thayer. Artists had begun to recognize that there must be some underlying reason that organisms have the colors and patterns that they do, and in 1909, Thayer wrote a fairly intemperate book on coloration in nature. He dismissed mimicry but made a central biological principle of disruptive color patterns and concealment. He tried, unsuccessfully, to sell the military on what we would now call biomimetic camouflage, and he earned the enmity of Theodore Roosevelt.
By the time of the First World War, at least three communities cared about nature's visual patterns: biologists, artists and the military. These were groups whose mindsets were far from compatible. The biologists still found the perfection of mimicry hard to reconcile with genetics and evolution. The artists saw evolution in distinctly metaphysical terms. And the military, traditionally conservative, distrusted civilians' offers of quick fixes as well as the decidedly evangelical individuals in the other two groups.
Nonetheless, by the war's end both the Americans and the British were making military use of concealing patterns and what the British called "dazzle" patterns (this was probably Thayer's term originally). Dazzle, used primarily on ships, employed the supposed (and still uncertain) trick of the zebra—breaking up dark areas with patches of white to generate either no recognizable pattern or a deceptive one. Ideally, an observer, perhaps looking through a periscope, would not know whether a ship was coming or going. But in the end, dazzle camouflage had only minimal success. Camouflage on land, both more significant and more successful, drew not on natural history but on traditional garb for stalking animals and on the new cubist art.
Between the wars, biologists continued searching for the mechanisms that create patterns. There were squabbles between neo-Darwinian incremental geneticist R. A. Fisher and the zoologist Richard Goldschmidt, who believed that large evolutionary leaps could occur. Meanwhile, some biologists began to suspect that great changes in appearance could be based on much less radical genetic alteration, providing what has become the basis for reconciliation between the views of Fisher and Goldschmidt. At the same time, some surrealists saw nature as the source of their style, and both the antigeneticist Trofim Lysenko and the anti-Darwinian lepidopterist and novelist Vladimir Nabokov weighed in.
The zoologist Hugh Cott had the final word in Adaptive Coloration in Animals (1940), a definitive synthesis of everything known about camouflage and mimicry in nature. Cott ruffled fewer feathers, and his well-organized and unfanatic ideas proved militarily effective, even under the scrutiny of improved techniques for target detection. Thayer's principles reemerged in more temperate and rational terms, and camouflage schemes based on them survived both photometric analyses and enemy encounters. Biomimetic camouflage took its place as yet another technique in a sophisticated armamentarium of visual deceptions.
But did visual deception really influence the evolution of living forms? The famous postwar experiments of Bernard Kettlewell on industrial melanism in peppered moths made a strongly positive case. Moths of that species took on a dark form in areas of Britain where the trees were darkened by industrial pollution, and birds were less successful in detecting the melanic forms there than in unpolluted areas. Kettlewell's methodology later came in for criticism, but the basic idea now seems fairly secure.
With many more eccentric players than I've mentioned, Dazzled and Deceived tells a fine story. It is a delight; only when briefly tackling the molecular genetics of mimicry does Forbes have difficulty holding the reader. I am, though, a little uncomfortable with his repeated assertion that biology is the science of special cases. What the field has, instead, is a mind-numbing multidimensionality that exceeds that of other sciences. Oversimplified analysis is a worse hazard for the biological baby than for the physical bathwater.
Dazzled and Deceived does not tell the whole story. Largely or entirely omitted are the problems of animals in the open sea, on which considerable work has been done. Also missing are the important things that mimicry tells us about the sensory savvy of predators. Nor does Forbes note that some forms of display (including, perhaps, the peacock's tail feathers) may be explained by Amotz Zahavi's "handicap principle"—that surviving with some functional disability indicates superior fitness to potential mates. And almost no mention is made of deception that is auditory, olfactory or tactile, rather than visual.
Such caveats aside, I unhesitatingly recommend the book to both scientists and nonscientists.
Steven Vogel, emeritus faculty member in biology at Duke University, is the author of several books, including Cats' Paws and Catapults: Mechanical Worlds of Nature and People (W. W. Norton, 1998) and Glimpses of Creatures in Their Physical Worlds (Princeton University Press, 2009).
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Learn More About Pedometers
Learn More About Pedometers
Get a grip on your health and keep track of your daily activity level: Purchasing a pedometer is the first step towards reaching your fitness goals.
Choose a pedometer that is easy to use and delivers the up-to-date data you need. Track stats like your heart rate, steps taken, stairs climbed and more. Some pedometers come with an exercise timer and other added features.
Expect quality from popular brands like Sportline® and New Balance®.
Expert Advice
Pedometers are a powerful motivation tool for your active lifestyle, whether you're logging miles on the pavement or pushing the pace on a treadmill. And these devices aren't reserved for your workout-sport your pedometer throughout the day to keep tabs on your day-to-day activity levels.
Most pedometers calculate your steps by detecting movement throughout your day. Some models also calculate calories burned based on your weight.
When making your selection, keep in mind the display screen of your device: Ensure it is easy to read and use with a back-lit screen for use in low-light. Choose a pedometer that is lightweight and clips comfortably on your clothing or fits like a watch around your wrist. For durability, look for a pedometer that is both shockproof and water-resistant.
The simplest pedometers track steps and distance traveled. You can set a goal of 5,000 steps per day, for example, and gradually work toward that benchmark with the help of your pedometer.


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Staph infections are caused by staphylococcus bacteria, types of germs commonly found on the skin or in the nose of even healthy individuals. Most of the time, these bacteria cause no problems or result in relatively minor skin infections.
But staph infections can turn deadly if the bacteria invade deeper into your body, entering your bloodstream, joints, bones, lungs or heart. A growing number of otherwise healthy people are developing life-threatening staph infections.
Treatment usually involves antibiotics and drainage of the infected area. However, some staph infections no longer respond to common antibiotics.
Staph infections can range from minor skin problems to endocarditis, a life-threatening infection of the inner lining of your heart (endocardium). As a result, signs and symptoms of staph infections vary widely, depending on the location and severity of the infection.
Skin infections caused by staph bacteria include:
Boils. The most common type of staph infection is the boil, a pocket of pus that develops in a hair follicle or oil gland. The skin over the infected area usually becomes red and swollen.
If a boil breaks open, it will probably drain pus. Boils occur most often under the arms or around the groin or buttocks.
Staph bacteria are one of the most common causes of food poisoning. Symptoms come on quickly, usually within hours of eating a contaminated food. Symptoms usually disappear quickly, too, often lasting just half a day.
A staph infection in food usually doesn't cause a fever. Signs and symptoms you can expect with this type of staph infection include:
Also known as blood poisoning, bacteremia occurs when staph bacteria enter a person's bloodstream. A fever and low blood pressure are signs of bacteremia. The bacteria can travel to locations deep within your body, to produce infections affecting:
This life-threatening condition results from toxins produced by some strains of staph bacteria and has been linked to the use of certain types of tampons, skin wounds and surgery. It usually develops suddenly with:
Septic arthritis is often caused by a staph infection. The bacteria often target the knees, but other joints can be affected, including your ankle, hip, wrist, elbow, shoulder or spine. Signs and symptoms may include:
Go to the doctor if you or your child has:
You may also want to consult your doctor if:
Many people carry staph bacteria and never develop staph infections. However, if you develop a staph infection, there's a good chance that it's from bacteria you've been carrying around for some time.
These bacteria can also be transmitted from person to person. Because staph bacteria are so hardy, they can live on inanimate objects such as pillowcases or towels long enough to transfer to the next person who touches them.
Staph bacteria are able to survive:
A variety of factors — ranging from the status of your immune system to the types of sports you play — can increase your risk of developing staph infections.
Certain disorders or the medications used to treat them can make you more susceptible to staph infections. People who may be more likely to get a staph infection include those with:
Despite vigorous attempts to eradicate them, staph bacteria remain present in hospitals, where they attack the most vulnerable, including people with:
Staph bacteria can travel along the medical tubing that connects the outside world with your internal organs. Examples include:
Staph bacteria can spread easily through cuts, abrasions and skin-to-skin contact. Staph infections may also spread in the locker room through sharing razors, towels, uniforms or equipment.
Food handlers who don't properly wash their hands can transfer staph from their skin to the food they're preparing. Foods that are contaminated with staph look and taste like normal.
If staph bacteria invade your bloodstream, you may develop a type of infection that affects your entire body. Called sepsis, this infection can lead to septic shock — a life-threatening episode with extremely low blood pressure.
While you may initially consult your family physician, he or she may refer you to a specialist, depending on which of your organ systems is affected by the infection. For example, a dermatologist specializes in skin conditions, while a cardiologist treats heart disorders. Or you may be referred to a doctor who specializes in infectious diseases.
You may want to write a list that includes:
For staph infection, some basic questions to ask your doctor include:
Your doctor will likely ask you a number of questions, such as:
To diagnose a staph infection, your doctor will:
Treatment of a staph infection may include:
Antibiotics. Your doctor may perform tests to identify what type of staph bacteria is behind your infection, and to help choose the antibiotic that will work best. Antibiotics commonly prescribed to treat staph infections include certain cephalosporins, nafcillin or related antibiotics, sulfa drugs or vancomycin.
Vancomycin increasingly is required to treat serious staph infections because so many strains of staph bacteria have become resistant to other traditional medicines. But vancomycin and some other antibiotics have to be given intravenously.
If you're given an oral antibiotic, be sure to take it as directed, and to finish all of the medication prescribed by your doctor. Ask your doctor what signs and symptoms you should watch for that might indicate your infection is worsening.
Staph bacteria are very adaptable, and many varieties have become resistant to one or more antibiotics. For example, only about 10 percent of today's staph infections can be cured with penicillin.
The emergence of antibiotic-resistant strains of staph bacteria — often described as methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) strains — has led to the use of alternative antibiotics with the potential for more side effects, such as vancomycin.
These common-sense precautions can help lower your risk of developing staph infections:
Original article: http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/staph-infections/basics/definition/con-20031418
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Instead of being based on the Legacy, I based it off of the Forester. I couldn't figure out how to end the cab, but, hey.
***************************************************************************MyCar Critics
Oh my!
hey-throw some backwards facing seats in the pickup bed and you'll have a BRAT! they should bring back that little trucklet.
needs a 4inch lift
"when fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross"--Sinclair Lewis
I actually liked the Baja. Totally useless but cool.
=================================No, Brian, it's a foreign car, the "T" is silent. Sweet, I'm getting an Audi!
LOL, I don't think so.
A better option would be make it based off the Tribeca and make it a Ridgeline competitor.
__________________________________________________________Taking Back America, One Chevy at a Time
-or wander into the truck market with an actual truck chassis. It would be neat to have a truck that could utilize a flat motor. It'd be better for that high center of gravity as well.Only, don't let the folks that designed the "car only a mother could love" (current gen impreza) anywhere near it. They certainly screwed up a good thing there...eww.
Anyone else wonder how bad Chevy's slogans throughout the years would be taken if it manufactured toilet paper?
a subaru Ridgeline killer. i like the idea but it's be better as a 4door with a midgate system like the outback baja had.
--------------------I'm working on a scifi-adventure webcomic!
Here's what you can do to make it better: increase the height of the hood and make the B-pillar a bit thicker. It looks like an old weak Tacoma. Nothing against the work, but it just looks really weak and cheap.
____________________________________________________________F1's garage: 2006 and 2008 Chrysler 300C1985 Toyota MR22003 Ford F-2501996 Dodge Dakota PSN name--F1guy1
How about this? It's Tribeca based. Sorry about the crudeness, I did it in MS Paint.
__________________________________________________________Taking Back America, One Chevy at a Time
Here is Baja Chop 2.0 based off of the Tribeca. The wheel base has been extende a little.
***************************************************************************MyCar Critics
With gas prices threatening to rise again - the need for a compact pickup is back. The Baja fits that niche. I'd like to see Subaru bring a version of the Baja back.Here's the actual (original) image that was rendered by me of a 2011 Baja. I original posted this rendering on the NASIOC.com. A copy of this image with detailed specifications has been sent to Subaru for Review ...
ok taht actualy doesn't look that bad.
--------------------I'm working on a scifi-adventure webcomic!
Looks really good actually!


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I would reccommened that you go to the Kel-Tec owners group. Very friendly and helpful. KTOG.org. Enjoy the new gun.
I just ordered a P3AT as an early Christmas gift to myself today and should have it Monday or Tuesday. What type(s) of ammo does this little guy like to eat and what are some that cause problems? Also, can anyone recommend a good front pocket holster?
Last edited by Todd; 12-08-2006 at 03:18 PM.
I would reccommened that you go to the Kel-Tec owners group. Very friendly and helpful. KTOG.org. Enjoy the new gun.
Galco has one, and soes does Uncle Mikes. The Galco one is stuff, and the Uncle Mike's is a soft, cloth one. I like them both. The Uncle Mike's will go softer on the finish, though.
I got the K/T-3AT myself and it is a fine mouse gun. I shoot Winchester White box in mine for some good range ammo. I load Magtech Guardian Gold every other one for carry. If I load straight Mag Gold it will hang on the second mag everytime. I guess it just gets to hot to quick. It doesn't hang if I stay with WWB. Lube it before you go to the range the first time and clean it good when you get it home. I sure like mine. Good luck.
I really like my P3AT. It pretty much lives in my front pocket, in a Galco (naturally) Pocket Protector. Mine works well with WWB ball for practice and Gold Dots for defense. I don't think I've tried it with anything else. It has never malfunctioned with either, and I probably shoot it more often than most people shoot their pocket guns (about 200 rounds a month).
I've accessorized mine with the Kel-Tec belt clip, so I can carry it clipped to my running shorts, and a trimmed-down Hogue HandAll Jr. so I can actually hold the little thing.
Mine is loaded with S&B ball for practice and for carry Theirs only one choice Thats the Corbon DPX round this copper bullet out performs all regular HP . 2 choice is Corbon 90grHP These are about the hottiest 380 ammo going. I can rapid fire and never miss a beat. I have never had a Ket tec get hot and not work In fact I have never heard of it till here. I have 3 spare mags for my P-32 and I can fire Corbon as fast as I can change mags . Get a might hot yes Jam no. I think I would change mags or have KT look at it.


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Private stay in Stratford, 3 tube stops to Central London.
숙박 가능인원1
침실 수1
면적12 m²
Floor No.2
- 인터넷
- 부엌
- 세탁기 / 건조기
- 수건
- 방 잠금 장치
Accommodation summary
The room listed is nice and cozy single room for one person private stay. There is a single bed, wardrobe, small chest of draws; mirror. Room is located on the second floor opposite the bathroom (see the photos); Comes with lockable door, Wi-Fi. Bed linen supplied, towels, shampoos, hairdryer. Kitchen and Bathroom are shared.
Spacious house with 4 bedrooms, kitchen, 2nd floor bathroom with toilet and separate toilet on the ground floor; garden with access from the back of the house (please ask for garden keys upon arrival). The minimum stay in this room is 5 days. The room is on the 2nd floor with window overlooking the garden.
Facilities include: gas central heating, washing machine, microwave, fridge/freezer, toaster, kettle, kitchen table with 4 chairs; dishes, bowls, caps, mugs, glasses, cutleries.
During your stay, you are invited to use the kitchen facilities for breakfast and light meals. Guests have use of the kitchen for making tea, coffee and preparing their own breakfast (cereal and toast). Also, you will have a shelve in the fridge. There are cafes which offers cooked breakfasts - Caffe Mondo is a 7 minute walk. There is a good mix of local shops and lots of take aways and within 3 minute walk there is a friendly pub with rear garden.
Parking restriction is 2 hours a day from 10 am to 12 noon. Your car is your responsibility. I can not assist you with parking.
In case this room is not available for your required dates, please also look at my other offered listings.
Thank you for your consideration
숙소규정Only If you are staying for a week and longer you will be able to use the washing machine, but please ask first.
For your safety and for the safety of the property, please always ask before using the gas oven.
I expect you to leave the room as you have found it.
Check In - after 1pm.
Check Out - before 12pm or noon/midday.
Late departures need to be arranged. You can leave your luggage with me if you have a late flight, but please ask if the room is available from check in's at 1pm.
|Weekly rate for 1 guest
|22668225 ₩
|Monthly rate for 1 guest
|83860799 ₩
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The host cancelled the booking, this review is automated.
Very professional, always available to help and offering solutions to particular requests and extremely practical. The place is always clean, ready by the time I arrive and usually the houses are very quiet. I keep coming back each time I go to London...
Very professional, always available to help and offering solutions to particular requests and extremely practical. The place is always clean, ready by the time I arrive and usually the houses are very quiet. I keep coming back each time I go to London...
The room was OK, but the host was unavailable for 2 days, she didn't answer the phone calls and messages, even those by Wimdu. Finally we could reach by phone a woman who didn't speak English, only Russian, but she somehow understood that we wanted the key to the room and met us there.
There was a mistake in the communication system - the Wimdu booking site refused our booking, but later on the reservation was confirmed and we were charged for 2 nights, although we stayed there only one night. We wanted to discuss this with the host right on the first day, but she was unavailable. Last morning she wrote us that as we would get refund for the first night, we had to leave the room by 12 noon, couldn't leave our backpacks there, although we had a late flight and asked her. Later she refused to Wimdu to share the costs of the cancelled night and wanted to get the full amount what was taken off our account. We find it a very unfriendly way as we tried to clarify the situation and till the last minute we didn't know whether we can get in the room or not, although is was paid.
everything ok! good atmosphere.
Good place for that price.
Hi, me and my daughter spent one week in Rosi's house in London. It was a good experience: nice place with an international atmosphere, like a hostel but with more privacy, facilities and cleaning.The double room on the ground floor was little, but colorful, clean and with a private access to the garden. Everything allright in the kitchen, ready for cooking, with a lot of windows in front of the garden, a dining room and a sitting room with sofa and tv. Maybe two bathrooms are not enough for five bedrooms, but nobody was killed for a shower. The Stratford area is safe, rebuilded for the Olympic games, full of stores, cinemas, students. Underground is 8 minutes walk; hundred of different stores in the same time; Morrison supermarket 3 minutes, overground station 2 minutes walk. Cheap, honest, clean. Thnx for all, Rosi. See you soon. Massimo and Marta.
Me and my 7 years old daughter stayed for 3 nights in one of the loft rooms.
+ only 14 minutes walk to Westfield shopping mall
+ 17 minutes walk to queen Elizabeth park
+ good kitchen facilities
+ 3 minutes walk to a supermarket
- Nutella was empty
- 10 minutes walk to the Stratford station
- never met Rosie
- lack of information on arrival.
- can be noisy since there is around 6 rooms in total which can be rented out to different people.
- Had one towel and the same bedsheet for the 3 nights.
I chose this as I thought we would be living with a local family and all the reviews said that Rosi was very helpful but that wasn't the case. We met a maid on arrival who showed us kitchen, bathroom and our room and that's all the information we got. It felt like a hotel room except that the rooms are noisier. Loft rooms are quite compared to the ones on the ground floor.
There was some good bars and restaurants within 15 minutes of walk. Just go to Westfield shopping mall and on the other side of the mall there is a food street. Highly recommended.
Stratford station is a 10 minutes walk and is a good station to get everywhere.
Overall a good enough place if you are on a budget.
The host cancelled the booking, this review is automated.
Everything was great.
The Room is near to Stratford Station and everything you will need to sleep and wash yourself is there.
There is no luxory but if you go to London you will not be in your Room for long.
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Devices & Diagnostics: The App Avant-Garde
Anne Whitaker, president, North America, pharmaceuticals, Sanofi
Four health activists were assembled by Wego Health to represent the patient perspective, and asked for their opinions of iBGStar and other personal devices and apps. Click on the highlighted text below to see video featuring the activists. From left in photo below, Amy Gurowitz, Jackie Zimmerman, Andrea Martin and Scott Benner.
Before being shown the iBGStar, panelists were asked about the general state of health apps that run on mobile phones to collect health data and help them understand it.
"For me, coming from an MS perspective, I've not yet found a mobile app that I'm happy with," says Amy Gurowitz, author of the blog MSLOL.me and MS Soft Serve, a non-profit, online learning tool for people with multiple sclerosis.
Her constituents aren't luddites, but are "waiting and seeing if anything good is coming out," Gurowitz says. She laments the "cookie cutter" approach and lack of flexibility of those she has seen.
Jackie Zimmerman, a health activist for the MS as well as Crohn's and Colitis communities, is not shy about trying new ways to manage her health. "I am the epitome of a millennial," she says. "We are 100% early adopters." But Zimmerman, who blogs at BloodPoopTears.com and the MSUnderstood blog (themsblog.com), says "nothing has met my needs or done enough of what I'm looking for."
Connected and customizable apps got our health-activist panel's collective thumbs-up. Most pharma apps work in silos, they say. What's needed are apps which integrate—either with other apps or devices, if appropriate for that disease state, and offer personalization for multiple illnesses.
Apps that do a good job of documenting vitals and dosing have an added benefit: "I had to go to six doctors to [get one to approve my] endometriosis surgery," recalls Andrea Martin, a chronic illness activist and author of the "It's Time to Get Over How Fragile You Are" blog (fragileannie.com). "If [an app] would have been able to show them I had tried everything, I think I would have had more success."
As far as the $74.99 iBGStar, which combines a disease-management app and an iPhone-enabled blood-glucose tester, the device design is "a huge step in the right direction," says Scott Benner, who speaks from his experience caring for a daughter with type 1 diabetes. Time will tell whether the app improves on the usability of existing monitors, which he says seem like "whoever imagined collecting and showing the data was an engineer and not a person with diabetes or [a caregiver]."
Respondents also applaud the ability to e-mail information to the doctor, as well as the free counseling and coaching portion, which, Gurowitz points out, enable users to develop a personal health plan and with it a certain amount of control. "Patient control is so important because none of us feel like we have control when we're sick," adds Martin.
But its price tag could put off chronic illness sufferers, many of whose monthly budgets are maxed out on medications. "You're narrowing the focus with that," warns Gurowitz, who says MS community members are angry to begin with about drug prices. "As with anything pharmaceutical, I think there should always be a very well-represented affordability and for people who can't afford it, an assistance program… Whenever there's a price tag associated with anything, it better be good."


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In Matt Hazard: Blood Bath and Beyond, General Neutronov, one of Matt's nemeses has reactivated all of Hazard's greatest enemies from classics like Matt's original adventure, The Adventures of Matt in Hazard Land and Chest of the Pirate Queen in an attempt to destroy Matt's former self in the past and end his present. Matt has no time for a leisurely stroll down memory lane as he chases Neutronov through the games of the past in order to save his future.
Matt Hazard: Blood Bath and Beyond is a flood of carnage that the classic 8-bit side-scroller era didn't want gamers to see. Recreated today with next-gen 3D graphics, it's nonstop run-and-gun action at its finest. Take a suspenseful ride in single player or co-op through a pirate hideout, an ancient Japanese castle, the Old West, Siberian ice mines, and even the moon and relive some of the most classic and violent moments in Matt Hazard's videogame history.


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Welcome to the board from Southern California!!!
Welcome to the Quilting Board!
Welcome to the board from Southern California!!!
My newest Grandson, Caleb Austin, was born May 29th. I am now Grandma to 4 precious babies. I am so blessed!!!!
Hi Jim and family and welcome to the 'board. You will love it here, stop by often.
Welcome from North Carolina! I think you'll love the Singer 306w the more you use it.
Welcome Jim from Missouri Star Quilt Company in Hamilton, Missouri. If you need any help please call us!
Welcome!! We lived in Peteluma in the '70s. It was a great little town and we loved the weather.
Sounds like you have a great grouping of machines -- it is great that your kids join you sewing.
When life gives you lemons, make lemonade.
Thanks you all. I gave the Singer to a friend at work who makes costumes for various events and I picked up a project Singer 99K with a hand crank. It'll be easier to control for us newbies once I get it cleaned up, repaired, and dialed in. There is a great quilt store in Petaluma and I picked up Marianne Fons and Liz Porter's book, "Quilters Complete Guide" to get the family started. I was setting up the Old White Rotary for my daughter last night and low and behold, when I lifted the machine to check the bobbin, the original green box of attachments appeared. It must have been hiding off to the side. Talk about a pleasant surprise...
Last edited by James_D; 01-03-2013 at 09:48 AM.


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Royal Sundance Fiber - Cottonwood - No. 10 Envelopes (4.125-x-9.5) - 500 PK
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Royal Sundance Fiber Envelopes
Royal Sundance Fiber. Always an excellent choice. When you need a paper that looks great printed or au naturel, turn to Fiber. Enjoy creating beauty on these distinctive papers by Neenah. Royal Sundance Fiber is the obvious choice for quality and distinct personality. It is an eco-friendly paper yet complimented with its wonderful and unique color options.
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Craig Venter:
On the verge of creating synthetic life
"Can we create new life out of our digital universe?" Craig Venter asks. His answer is "yes" — and pretty soon. He walks through his latest research and promises that we'll soon be able to build and boot up a synthetic chromosome.
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- Alternative energy
- Creativity
- Energy
- Genetics
- Global issues
- Invention
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This talk was presented at an official TED conference, and was featured by our editors on the home page.
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Capital. Community and Green Arcade
Resisting gentrification in San Francisco: talk and discussion of the history of gentrification and anti-systemic social movements in San Francisco.
Author Karl Beitel will discuss his new book "Local Protest, Global Movements: Capital, Community, and State in San Francisco", on the history of gentrification and local opposition in San Francisco. Open discussion will follow.
Event is free and wheelchair accessible.


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Hello Charlee,
No, it hasn't got a metal cover for the side compartment, but the grooves are in the base to take one. I don't know whether it had one and it was lost, or it never had one in the first place. Seeing as it dates from 1940 perhaps this was an economy measure.
I love the wooden cover on your compartment. My 1916 99K has exactly the same base and case.


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Sunset at Brown's Lake, Ovando, Montana
A beautiful sunset (aided by forest fire smoke) over Brown's Lake near Ovando, Montana.
The shallow, 300 acre (120 ha) lake is noted for producing large rainbow trout. It is also a great bird watching site.
Photo: 27 July 2013
"Limnology" - The study of inland waters
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I kinda wanted to see how Hanyu would fair at Colorado Springs given the higher altitude. Happy that Mura and Machida will compete at 4CC. Is the gala tomorrow?
I kinda wanted to see how Hanyu would fair at Colorado Springs given the higher altitude. Happy that Mura and Machida will compete at 4CC. Is the gala tomorrow?
Last edited by FTnoona; 12-25-2011 at 02:11 PM.
Back in the day, did we ever see Yagudin or Plushenko fall three times in a single program?
Programs today are so busy that even world champions can't stay on their feet for four-and-a-half minutes. The ISU says, "What great skating! Look at all the points skaters like Chan and Takahashi are racking up!! Analyze the protocols!!!"
The emperor has no clothes. This is not great skating.
^ The reference was to current and immediate past world champions who fall a lot in various competitions like Grand Prix events and National championships.
I think the kind of skating promoted and demanded by the current judging system leads to a lot of falls, even by top skaters. Maybe especially by top skaters.
I do not think that the skating public will stay fooled forever when we say, "Look how deep his edge is, and oh! the excellence of his three-turns! Falls? Pay no attention to the little man behind the curtain."
Last edited by Mathman; 12-25-2011 at 08:45 PM.
That's not true at all. FS program in men actually have less elements these days than the time of 6.0 era where at least 4 spins were "recommended / required" (3 today) and however number of jumps they wanted to put in which was usually equal or greater than the number of jumping passes these days. They also had to do two step sequences. Men's SP also went down by 1 element vs. the time of Yagudin/Plushenko.Programs today are so busy that even world champions can't stay on their feet for four-and-a-half minutes. The ISU says, "What great skating! Look at all the points skaters like Chan and Takahashi are racking up!! Analyze the protocols!!!"
You make it sound as though the 6.0 system never produced questionable placements and results. A system is only going to be as robust as the humans using it. No scoring model is perfect and it is the humans who use them that determine whether they eventually succeed or not. CoP helps organizes the thoughts of the evaluators, thus is a plus vs. the previous system but it isn't shielded from manipulation.The emperor has no clothes. This is not great skating.
I do not think that. That would be silly.You make it sound as though the 6.0 system never produced questionable placements and results.
What I do think is that
(a) Fans, spectators and supports of figure skating will tire of paying to see ballyhooed champions falling all over the ice -- and then being rewarded by gold medals for doing so. And
(b) The ISU does not really care what fans, spectators and supporter of figure skating like or don't like. They know what is best for us.
We have skaters who push or get pushed hard, raising the bar for the next ones. Early season falls create buzz and heated debates, IOW, interest, among fans, raising the expectation level as the season progresses, culminating in the World Championships with fans hoping with bated breath for perfection from their favorites or chanting "Fall! Fall! Fall!" against the hated one. If an unpopular skater keeps winning, fans start rooting for young upstarts to one day kick his butt for everbody he beats and their fans. Fans are more emotionally invested and involved.
All very exciting if you ask me.
Also, the current and the immediately past champions, along with others, are adversly affected by events, general and personal, before this season started so maybe they can be cut some slack? The Playoff season just got started.
^ You are probably right.
My New Year's resolution is to stop being so grumpy.
Go Mao! Go Carolina! Go Alissa!
Actually at this point I'm more interested in seeing the skaters' progress than their scores. The top skaters are doing very challenging programs, each with their own nemeses, old or new, to overcome. Most of the falls are not indicative of lack of technical skills but because a skater can't take care of every aspect of the programs right now, mostly mentally, but if they are making progress otherwise, it's very encouraging that they may soon put everything together, hopefully at the right time. What I see from the JN includes Kozuka now connecting to his music and Takahashi successfully landing a quad combo after being unable to land a solo quad for a long time. They are both real and dangerous contenders comes Worlds if the stars align. The current world champ, OTOH, has been competing in compromised conditions but he knows where he's really at and it will be exciting to see if he will soon introduce a new quad and execute his LP cleanly at the same time.
COP challenges, so the best will stumble on the road to success. I say bravo to their ambitions and determination to push to their limits. Worlds will see glorious performances from those who ultimately succeed in their pursuits.
From my perspective, it's very exciting.
Second of all, figure skating is about a whole package skate, not counting a number of falls or errors.
Okay, question time:
At US Nationals 2011, Ryan Bradley made a mess of both is quads. Now, on his second quad, he made the mess, but was still able to attach a double toe. Consequently, the quad was called a 4T+Combo - he got credit for doing a combo (hence it didn't affect base value) but not for the 2T. Here, Kozuka's second triple axel had a fall, but he got up and added a single toe to it. However, his 3A was called a 3A+Sequence, and given the sequence factoring. Was this because of the fall? Because I assumed he'd be given the 3A+Combo mark, which would give him two more points (or so).
Isn't it the rule that on a combo you have to go right up on the same edge that you landed the first jump on? So presumably if you fell in between that would take away the possibility of maintaining a continuous edge.
IMHO they deserve to see excellent displays of skills, lovely programs, and exciting competition. If instead they see a splat fest and a winner who fell more than anyone else, I think that such fans feel that they did not get their money's worth. Explanations like, "this is the beginning of the season, they'll get better," and "the guy who fell three times deserved to win because of PCSs" do not help.
But you (SkateFiguring) might be right. The fans we should be concerned about are fans like us. Fans who follow figure skating on the Internet, who praise and criticize our favorite skaters and their rivals, who do look at the progression of the season as a whole, and who like to debate the ins and outs of the scoring system. This is probably the future of the sport. (Unfortunately for the ISU, we don't give them any money in exchange for all this fun. )
That's a good point. In the current judging system a fully rotated triple jump with a fall ends up with about the same numbers of points as a satisfactory double jump. Under 6.0 we don't know quite so precisely how much credit a skater lost for doubling an intended triple. But it was bad, since the emphasis was always on "how many triples she she do?" If you double-footed the landing, that didn't count as a "ratified" triple, although again we don't know how much the judges deducted from the score.Originally Posted by WallyLutz
In either case, doubling a jump was/is quite evident as a serious error of omission to casual viewers as well as to ISU judges. And a complete pop looks just as bad as a fall.
I still think it would be more sports-like to give 0 points. Like in the sport of rodeo. If the cowboy falls off the horse, no matter how much riding skill he showed up to that point, and no matter how shiny his spurs, the announcer says, "Let's give that cowboy a big round of applause, 'cause that's all he is going to get for that ride."
Last edited by Mathman; 12-26-2011 at 06:41 PM.


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Facts about Germany
Facts about Germany is a handbook for anyone seeking reliable and up-to-date information on the Federal Republic of Germany. It provides facts and figures about the country and its people, its government system, social life, poltical groupings and trends, all the different sectors of industry and business, and the multifaceted face of culture in Germany and its 16 federal states.
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Conservatively Speaking
State Senator Mary Lazich (R-New Berlin) represents parts of four counties: Milwaukee, Waukesha, Racine, and Walworth. Her Senate District 28 includes New Berlin, Franklin, Greendale, Hales Corners, Muskego, Waterford, Big Bend, the town of Vernon and parts of Greenfield, East Troy, and Mukwonago. Senator Lazich has been in the Legislature for more than a decade. She considers herself a tireless crusader for lower taxes, reduced spending and smaller government.
Senator Lazich's Statement Applauding Senate Approval of Modernizing Campaign Finance Laws
Madison- State Senator Mary Lazich (R-New Berlin) released the following statements after the Senate approved Senate Bill 655, modernizing Wisconsin's Campaign Finance laws to reflect advancements in technology, codify state law and federal law, update outdated statutory provisions, and solidify best practices into state law.
"SB 655 is a modernization and housekeeping bill," said Lazich. "The bill makes overdue changes to Wisconsin Election and Campaign Finance law by updating sections of statues that are dated or have been struck down by the courts."
The Senate Committee on Elections and Urban Affairs, chaired by Senator Lazich heard extensive commentary about SB 655 and amended the bill after the testimony, gaining unanimous committee vote for the amendment.
"I worked closely with the Senator Miller on Senate Amendment 1. After having time to review the provisions in the bill about internet activity regulation, I expected the bill would receive bi-partisan support from the State Senate."
The bill adopts Federal Election Commission regulations governing internet activity. The bill makes clear that individuals acting on their own behalf or not compensated for their internet activity do not have to register for making campaign contributions or disbursements. Specifically the bill is about blogs, Facebook, or other non-compensated free speech on the internet.
"The bill clearly protects First Amendment online speech from government regulation. It is crucial to our free society that we protect the ability of people to express points of view about elections and issues of the day."
Existing law prohibits lobbyists from making contributions prior to the legislature concluding its final floor period or while in special or extraordinary session. SB 655 does not make changes to that prohibition.
"The bill reflects adoption of the federal MOVE Act during the last session. Accusation that this will open the flood gates to lobbyist contributions during the legislative session are false and fear mongering by Senate Democrats."
SB 655 changes the registration requirement thresholds to comply with court cases and recommendations by the GAB. The bill increases the registration requirement for referenda activity from $750 to $2,500 and increases the registration threshold for committees and individuals engaging in express advocacy to $300.
Senate Amendment 1 to SB 655 allows expenditures up to $20,000 or 20% of prior year's funds for solicitation efforts. Initially SB 655 eliminated the cap. Senate Amendment 1 removed that provision and embraced bi-partisan language from the Assembly.
"This is a fair-minded, housekeeping bill that modernizes Wisconsin campaign finance law and we negotiated changes with democrats in good faith."
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Created as a homage to the classic 8-Bit Role-Playing Games (RPGs) of the '80s and '90s, 8-Bit Adventures tells the story of an old game cartridge on the brink of destruction. Unplayed for years, it now sits lost and forgotten, covered in dust and slowly being reclaimed by the elements. Struggling against the inevitable, this cartridge sets in motion a plan - a plan, it hopes, that will subvert its fate and save the world within its circuits from total annihilation... Inside the game, three people - a warrior, a thief, and a mage - wake up to find that all the color has been drained from their world, petrifying all of the townspeople! To restore their home, they must collect the three colored Orbs by exploring dark dungeons and battling dangerous monsters. But this is only the beginning of their journey... "The last time I was blown away by the story in a game was when I played To the Moon. Then I got an email from Josh, of Critical Games..." - Amanda Fitch, Amaranth Games
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WASHINGTON -- In an op-ed published today in The Washington Post, The Concord Coalition's Co-Chairs, former Senators Bob Kerrey (D-NE) and Warren B. Rudman (R-NH), warned against defaulting to the "do nothing" approach to Social Security reform. Kerrey and Rudman urged critics of the few specific reform plans that exist to come up with their own plans for shoring up the Social Security system.
For the full
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Excerpts from the op-ed:
"Wall Street's slump and the disappearing budget surplus are already shaping this year's campaign rhetoric on Social Security reform. It's easy to see why. These events have taken two cherished free lunch options off the table. Politicians can no longer claim that investment returns from a never-ending bull market or general revenue transfers from perpetual budget surpluses will save them from making hard choices.
"This development should spark a more realistic debate on genuine reform options. But there is a clear danger that without a free lunch to promise, politicians will fall back on an equally bad option -- the Do Nothing Plan. Voters shouldn't let that happen...
"Doing nothing means deep benefit cuts or steep payroll tax increases for future generations, which is why the Social Security Trustees continually warn that prompt action is essential.
"Suppose that a member of Congress introduced legislation called 'The Social Security Do Nothing Act.' Under this bill, promised retirement benefits would be cut by 16 percent for today's 30-year olds, by 29 percent for today's 20-year olds, and by 35 percent for today's newborns. Alternatively, payroll taxes would suddenly go up by roughly 40 percent in 2041. How many politicians would rush to endorse this bill? None. And yet these are the choices under the Do Nothing Plan...
."It is certainly fair to criticize reform plans on policy grounds. But it is fundamentally unfair to judge them against a standard that assumes the current system can deliver everything it promises. It can't. Today's Social Security system promises far more in future benefits than it can possibly deliver. The relevant comparison for any reform plan is with what current law can deliver, not what it promises.
"No realistic reform plan looks good when compared to the false hypothetical of a perfectly solvent system. Reformers have the burden of saying what changes they would make to a system that is very popular but unsustainable. Critics can sit back and take pot shots at politically painful options without ever having to say what they would do instead.
"We have a simple suggestion to improve the dialogue. Critics...should come up with their own plans for shoring-up Social Security. They should be specific about the benefit cuts and tax increases they recommend and the amount of general revenues that would be required. A real debate could then take place...
"We should stop playing political shell games with this issue. If we do not have the political will to solve the Social Security problem now, there is no hope of doing so when the baby boomers start collecting benefits -- not just for Social Security but for Medicare and Medicaid as well. The problems facing our health care programs are much more daunting and difficult than Social Security. These three programs together are expected to double as a share of the economy within 30 years, putting unthinkable pressure on tax rates, the economy and the budget...
"Politicians of both parties should get behind specific reform plans or be held accountable for supporting the consequences of the Do Nothing Plan."