text:
Town Square
Beware the coming Real Estate Bubble Burst
Original post made by chaz, College Terrace, on Mar 17, 2013
Beware the bubble.
Most of the pressure is coming from Chinese Money. Hot money is fleeing Chinas real estate bubble for something more secure. Its flooded into Toronto, Vancouver, Vegas, anywhere in California, particularly places with good public schools and universities.
However beware. The rush to purchase may push these prices higher, and they will stay high so long as the bubble continues pushed higher and higher. But at the end of the day prices can only be sustained by the local economy, and taking Palo Alto, that would be lower than they are now. Scarcity aside, it is way better to rent in Palo Alto than buy, so that prices will soon come down.
Prices in Vancouver is starting to tumble down, off 11 percent from last year as the Chinese moved down the coast to places like Palo Alto
This is a huge issue, but some silly liberal philosophy means that we are not allowed to talk about it! We are supposed to welcome all immigrants and not mention the destabilizing influence of hot mony parked in our real estate.
Comments (62)
a resident of Crescent Park
on Mar 17, 2013 at 12:04 pm
I always salute those who bring up this issue, and shortly thereafter people will come out of the woodwork to call me a bigot, a racist, all manner of names. I do think the PA real estate market is driven by *both* the situation you describe *and* our FB/Goog situation, though, so it's a confluence of factors that makes renting a better deal right now.
Generally it is financially preferable to buy when the ratio of home price to annual rent is <15. Today it's ~35 in PA.
a resident of Meadow Park
on Mar 17, 2013 at 1:31 pm
When was the last time the ratio was <15 in PA?
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Mar 17, 2013 at 2:30 pm
A lot of the Chinese immigrant families I know from my children's school are ones where both parents both have advanced degrees in engineering or computer science and both work full-time professions. Many live in the more lower-priced housing, like townhouses, condos, or smaller detached houses.
When you have two hardworking parents with such academic qualifications working at technical jobs in Silicon Valley, many will be able to eventually save up enough to buy in Palo Alto, and that appears to what these families have done. I think couples of any race would be capable of that if they had similar credentials, but it just so happens that the mainland Chinese who make it over here are more likely to have them.
But of course, posters like "chaz" purposely ignore this reality and prefer to invoke the shameful American tradition of "yellow peril" hysteria, accusing Asian immigrants of being part of some massive communist Chinese conspiracy to rob their countries and take away land from real (that usually means "white") Americans. It's pretty surprising that some people living in such a cosmopolitan, progressive area as this still think like it's the 1940s. Next thing you know they'll be calling the Chinese Americans spies and wanting to put them in internment camps.
a resident of Community Center
on Mar 17, 2013 at 3:47 pm
Chaez, They make you believe it! REIT fund is at all time high and is loaded up with CASH. Hope you know by now who is buying up the real estates these days!
Chris, When was the last time the ratio was <15 in PA?
a resident of Community Center
on Mar 17, 2013 at 4:56 pm
Well, Chris, if the shoe fits.......
Of curse we have to cut you some slack considering your recent " despoiling"..
By the what happened with your plan to have mandatory occupancy laws in place n palo alto-- that may scare away the Chinese investors you are so afraid of.
a resident of Meadow Park
on Mar 17, 2013 at 5:24 pm
One of our major real estate brokers prides himself with articles in the weekend paper that he solicits Asian buyers.
Also I saw his TV ads on Channel 8, the Japanese language station.
a resident of Los Altos Hills
on Mar 17, 2013 at 6:40 pm
I do not know if they are merely pulling my leg or just plain being dishonest, but the parents of some of my Chinese students have told me that they work six months of the year in China and spend much time on the road, leaving wife and children in the US. So why not stay in China? These same people complain about lousy US wages, vacations, medical care costs, housing costs, and poor education.
The real clincher came a couple of years ago when one Chinese girl came weeping to me because, 1) her mother was kicking her out because she got a B on a math test, and 2) she just found out that her father had another wife and kids in China and expected the two wives to send gifts to each other. It really annoyed her to find out that her father expected far, far less of his kids in China and did not pressure them as much as he pressured his "American" kids.
What on earth is up with that? Why not just go back to China where you will not have to work so hard or be spread so thin, and where rent is only $40/ month or so??????
Obviously, Daddy has too much money if he can support two families and two non-working wives
a resident of Community Center
on Mar 17, 2013 at 7:04 pm
Riding school instructor --they were both pulling your leg. In fact, I recently met the CEO of a leading foreign company and he told me that the stories you are telling are well known urban myths. Of course some people have issues with the chinese because they are not white and enjoy spreading stories. A renowned medical doctor told me that that happens when you have ankylosing spondylitis.
a resident of Green Acres
on Mar 17, 2013 at 9:13 pm
Don't get too excited about "prices rising 36%" from a year prior. One number does not tell the whole story. Nor does a set of a few numbers... Take this overview of PA by Trulia, for example: Web Link
In it, you can see that the median sale price is up 69% from a year prior. SIXTY NINE PERCENT?! Some schmucks who bought they house a couple years ago for 1mln are thinking they can sell their place for 1.7mln! Not so fast... What this number does not say is what KIND of houses were sold last year compared to this year... Last year's sold houses were lower-end (not extremely low end, of course, but not nearly as good as the ones being sold recently). Average price per square foot of home is a little more reasonable at 33%. But again this is not telling us the whole story, since the houses being sold recently are on larger lots than those sold last year. And, as we all know quite well, the LAND value in this area is often more significant than the value of the dwelling.
So if you bought a home for 1mln a year or two ago, what is it worth now? I don't know. But you certainly can't just look at some generic # and apply it directly to your property.
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Mar 17, 2013 at 10:10 pm
The issue is not the two hard working parents, of whatever ethnicity, saving money to put their kids through school. Welcome to those folks. The issue is the monster housing bubble in China, propped up by crazy central planning, which has produced ghost cities, and an exodus of hot money to our shores. These Chinese nationals, here on visas often, dont have jobs here. They have jobs in China. They get their money out of the country because they are scared of the bubble popping there. And yes our schools are better so they do anything to get their kids through our schools - including bending the rules in ways that our culture does not condone.
So you can argue whether its racist or not, but I am saying that its dangerous for our economy. What goes up - not linked to the local economy - must come down. I know of a family who put their grandparents and a teenage daughter in a one bedroom apartment in the Redwoods while the girl went through Gunn. And another who left the mother here while Dad was in China and who report one child a failure because he didnt get into UCs. The poor kids are dealing with language issues and impossible pressure to succeed and send each other test answers, and whatever to succeed.
The problem really is what happens when these people stop coming, as they have in Vancouver. Then we will experience the popping of another bubble - independent of what is now fairly stable companies - Google, Apple etc, which are no longer growing exponentially. Steady income, astronomical housing prices, and the repatriation of capital, and the kids who have graduated from our universities - back to China could be ugly for our economy, let alone unfair for the kids who were squeezed out of a spot in the UCs.
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Mar 17, 2013 at 10:40 pm
Real estate in China is 3 times GDP.
30 percent of Chinese investors are looking to invest overseas.
That means the entire GDP of China is buying real estate, and focussing it upon certain markets in the US, particularly Palo Alto.
This is an influx of cash that will only stop when the music stops and the Chinese bubble bursts. Until then prices will keep on going up. Our market is linked to theirs.
a resident of Community Center
on Mar 17, 2013 at 10:49 pm
C, UC admits more foreign, out-of-state students. It's an old news.
Bubbles are always formed over time. These days DOM is less than 2 weeks..meaning that you can sell any junks to the market. Why stay around if I were you!
a resident of Los Altos Hills
on Mar 18, 2013 at 12:22 pm
Not an issue: Huh????
See also, "Palo Alto Racist Place", by wu t
BTW, my best friend since elementary school is nisei Japanese.
a resident of Community Center
on Mar 18, 2013 at 5:52 pm
[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]
a resident of College Terrace
on Mar 18, 2013 at 6:06 pm
We have to ask ourselves.
Is it good that a large amount of money is being injected into our local real estate market, driving prices through the roof, a good thing, when the new owners dont live in the country, have jobs in China, and are going to have to sell if the bubble bursts in China. Is it good that our economy is being linked to the Chinese economy through our real estate.
We also have to ask ourselves. Is the intention of the public school system here to educate the children of Chinese nationals, who are here on visas only by virtue of their pumping millions into real estate to "park" their money. These children take the great school education, crowd out the local kids in the UCs, are utterly ruthless when it comes to academic success, take up the spots of 5 th generation Californians, so there is no room for them, and then leave to make money back in China or elswhere?
I mean whats in it for the local residents? No more spots in the UCs and bubble real estate prices?
This is not a good deal for Californians, and yet they are too narrow minded "liberal" to say this stinks. Its not a matter of ethnicity, its a matter of linking our real estate market to a bubble in China, to welcome people from a country with no human rights to fill up our schools and universities, and then wave them good by as they take the education and go.
a resident of Community Center
on Mar 18, 2013 at 6:16 pm
How many foreign postdoctoral fellows come to Stanford, from all overvthe years ,for a few years and their kids go to our schools. What about all the visiting faculty that do the same? How about workers that come to,local companies for a limited time and their kids go to our schools.
Seems that china bashing has become a local sport n palo alto. [Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Mar 18, 2013 at 9:23 pm
chaz, in my previous post I pointed out that the mainland Chinese immigrants I've met at our elementary school here are not absentee beneficiaries of Chinese corruption but just hardworking and highly-educated technical professionals.
If you'd actually stop to talk to the Chinese immigrants you meet, you'd discover that the vast majority fit the profile I've described here. I'm sure there are some who fit your description of absentee beneficiaries of hot PRC money, but you are unfairly and mistakenly painting the whole group with this brush.
And what's this outrage about "5th generation Californians" being displaced by recent immigrants? Does a "5th generation" Californian have some God-given right to live in Palo Alto that mere 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation Californians don't have? What a coincidence that 5th generation Californians would be close to 100% white.
You're simply spouting thinly-veiled racism. "All the Chinese immigrants here are corrupt absentee manipulators of the China real estate bubble and are stealing our land" sounds a lot like the rhetoric used against Jews in the 1930s, Chinese railroad workers in the 19th century, Vietnamese boat people in the 1980s.
It's disturbing how much anti-Asian vitriol rears its head on these boards. I hope this represents the feelings of just a small minority of malcontents in this town, because we deserve better than this.
a resident of Crescent Park
on Mar 18, 2013 at 9:50 pm
> You're simply spouting thinly-veiled racism.
This is the knee-jerk reaction to any mention or something that might have a racial component to it. It's possible there is more to it, and it is possible there is a racist or xenophobic element as well, but I think a lot of Americans, Palo Altans, don't like to lose our culture or our neighborhoods and that is a legitimate feeling, though racism is not a valid response, it is also not a valid blanket accusation.
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 18, 2013 at 10:58 pm
[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]
a resident of College Terrace
on Mar 18, 2013 at 11:03 pm
OK, so lets pretend for a moment that these are not Chinese they are Europeans. So these Europeans come to Palo Alto, push their kids hard, cheat, and coach so that, the lets say Asian Americans who are deeply involved in the community and who have a less ruthless attitude to education, are squeezed out of the UCs. These Europeans buy up all the real estate at absurdly high prices, hang out only in groups of these other Europeans speaking their own language, leave kids and grandma here for the education but return to, lets pretend Europe, where they make all their money but which is in a huge real estate bubble and is about to collapse bringing down Palo Alto with it.
Take race out of the picture and comment on it from an educational and economic point of view. How is this good? These are not immigrants. They are not invested in the local community. They are using it to park money and suck up all the free education they can get.
I am writing down what everyone is saying in private.
a resident of College Terrace
on Mar 18, 2013 at 11:11 pm
OK, so lets pretend for a moment that these are not Chinese they are Europeans. So these Europeans come to Palo Alto, push their kids hard, cheat, and coach so that, the lets say AFRICAN Americans who are deeply involved in the community and who have a less ruthless attitude to education, are squeezed out of the universities. These Europeans buy up all the real estate at absurdly high prices, hang out only in groups of these other Europeans speaking their own language, leave kids and grandma here for the education but return to, lets pretend Europe, where they make all their money but which is in a huge real estate bubble and is about to collapse bringing down Palo Alto with it.
So put race back in the picture, change the groups around, do what you will with the race card, but its still a bad deal economically and educationally for the local community.
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Mar 19, 2013 at 7:35 am
CrescentParkAnon, what do you mean by "our culture" and "our neighborhoods"? Just who do you mean by "our"? You can say it's just a "knee jerk reaction" to say that racial bias is at work here, but it sure sounds like it from you're saying. "Our culture" and "our neighborhoods"...that's the exact argument the old South used to justify Jim Crow.
You and your buddies do not have any exclusive priority to live in Palo Alto or anywhere else in the US. This country is changing, and it's no longer 90% white. People like you seem to have a problem with this. I guess they end up moving to Idaho or something.
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Mar 19, 2013 at 7:39 am
Chaz, it sounds like you yourself probably only "hang out in groups" of people like yourself speaking your "own language". Because if you actually took the time to meet some of the people you criticize so much and get to know them, you'd realize that your characterization of them if off base.
And no, I don't believe that if we had lots of blonde haired, blue eyed, hardworking Swedes moving to Palo Alto you would be complaining.
a resident of Community Center
on Mar 19, 2013 at 8:41 am
Chaz, Why you ignore the employees from Stanford, Facebook, Google, Apple, Oracle, VMware as buyers in the market. You keep targeting the 1%(???) people made up the market. If you have data for last month, year, please show it to all of us! Cause we don't trust the stories from Agent A,B,C. How dare you believe that foreigner pushing up the US market? Think TWICE.. Do you know who owns the biggest pile of REIT fund? The answer is sooooo obvious! Your guess work is all wrong my friend!!!
a resident of Crescent Park
on Mar 19, 2013 at 10:29 am
> Posted by Grover, a resident of the Adobe-Meadows neighborhood, 2 hours ago
> CrescentParkAnon, what do you mean by "our culture" and "our neighborhoods"?
I would think it would be obvious, and of course, it is, but you have to try to make it sound racist by playing that absurdly equal idea that all cultures have equal rights everywhere theoretical perfection ... it just does not exist anywhere.
I really wonder if you are either a non-American or non-Palo Altan with animus towards same, or if you are actually have any experience with any minorities at all?
For example, in real life when I was going to through college and working I used to go to a laundramat where there were a lot of Mexican Americans working and as customers. I would spark up conversations and got to know the regulars, not all Latinos by the way. Almost to a one at some point in the conversation they would express their feeling that Mexico was going to take back over California. I would just ignore this, but I did note it. A couple of time I probably asked how they thought CA or the US would be better if it was more like Mexico, but the point is, people think like this, they resonate with their cultures, and they take it wherever they go and there's good and bad to that.
If you talk to Asians, and this is mostly with Chinese, and that includes Chinese-Vietnamese, Chinese-Phillipinos, Chinese-American and Chinese-(other) some of them actually do happen to be very racist. Not all, and there are certainly American racists as well, but assuming this is all about equal and only comes out when a group has the power to abuse their numbers, and many have noted this is a pattern with Muslims, other groups do change the nature of places they move to. I have had a lot of experience with people from other cultures and they can be as advanced as Americans like to think they are, and they can also be just as racist, sexist, homophobic or good-ole-boyish as American know that some of us can be.
There are differences between people in values, habits, politeness, hygiene, etc.
If it was not obvious, I'm saying that I, as an American, and Palo Altan since 1969, and coming from the American South have always appreciated Palo Alto and its community for its attempts to be fair to all, political correctness is what people call it when they think it has been overdone. I think it is something that has mostly taken hold in California, and despite some over-exuberant issues it is a very good thing. That said, it can be used and abused to the detriment of the system itself. I think most people, and the vast majority of children when they see and grow up in a place that promotes tolerance sees that it is the better way, but tolerance can be abused as well.
I like to meet and know foreign people. I've always had an interest and affinity for different ways of thinking, but I have had a respect and pride for what Americans do right, and our ability to be eclectic and adopt things from other cultures that make sense. Food, gardening, taking one's shoes off before they go inside, little things that add to quality of like that were not necessarily invented here.
I think the anxiety is that people who have lived here all their lives and like it the way it is do not like to see things change, and sometimes for good reason.
I expect you know exactly what I mean and were looking to 1) accuse me of racism, 2) give me the runaround forcing me to spend a lot of time writing a response to something you probably did not even think about, and 3) hoping in doing that I would put my foot in my ideas and you could again take the cheap shot and impose upon my good nature to accuse of being somehow immoral or unfair to people in a way you could discount.
I think we need a way to discuss issues like this without it turning into an absurdity, without people's feelings being called incorrect or immoral, and in a way where the real issues come out, because people do sometimes have racist behaviors and maybe they do not even realize it or when it is talked about they can see that more clearly.
What we do not need is these knee-jerk attacks on anything that might possible be misconstrued as racist by people who do not mean well or who are not trying to be constructive. Anyway, hope I did not step in anything or on anyone's toes, at the very least everyone should have the right to their feelings and to express them. These are just words and if meant to deliberately hurt even negative feelings can lead to something constructive if only the recognition that we all have such feelings at one time or another.
a resident of College Terrace
on Mar 19, 2013 at 11:24 am
I think its wise here not to call these folks "Asian".
Call them from the PRC Peoples Republic of China, a group completely separate from folks who are working and living and contributing to the local community. The problem is that locals in America are so racially sensitized that any observation of an undesirable economic development becomes a tired old racial namecalling.
So this is from "zero hedgefund" quoting the UK's "Telegraph" newspaper which is about as disreputable as the New York Times:
as you want a reference.
From Corrupt Chinese Politicians are Buying Billions in U.S. Real Estate.
"Many of us spent much of 2012 confused about how the U.S. real estate market was improving within the context of a broke and unemployed citizenry. Well as time has passed the answers to our questions have been revealed. The criminals are piling in. I first explained a couple of weeks ago how the financial oligarchs in the United States are currently in a bidding war to become America's slumlords in my post: America Meet Your New Slumlord: Wall Street.
Now we also discover that part of the bid to U.S. real estate has come from another criminal class. In this case, we are talking about corrupt Chinese officials who are pulling their ill gotten gains from their homeland and desperately placing it in real estate all over the globe. From The Telegraph:
As China's new leaders intensify a campaign to root out corruption, thousands of Communist party officials have been panicked into a fire sale of their illicit properties while billions of pounds have been smuggled overseas.
It said the volume of deals had intensified by "a hundred times" after Xi Jinping, the incoming Chinese president, warned that corruption could kill the Party and put one of the country's most vigorous and resolute politicians, Wang Qishan, in charge of stamping out graft.
It also claimed that an astonishing $1 trillion (£630 billion), equivalent to 40 per cent of Britain's annual GDP, had been smuggled out of China illegally in 2012.
In the United States, the National Association of Realtors said that more than $7 billion of properties had been bought by Chinese in the US last year. Some high-end homes are now specifically built for rich Chinese with ponds for koi carp and a second kitchen for pungent cooking.
guess word has gone out globally that the U.S. is open for business as far as the global criminal class is concerned. They can rest assured knowing they will never face repercussions in this lawless land. At least that is what they think. What we must do is never forget who is buying all of these properties"
So can we not recognize what is going on without a stupid name calling about racism. It is the very racists who couch everything in racist terms.
This is an economic and political issue. It is an issue about the use of our community for money laundering from the PRC.
Please forget the racial overtones. This is not about "Asians" or "Mexicans" or "Whites". Its about the international criminal class using Palo Alto to park money, link us to the PRC housing bubble, and game our schools for the benefit of their kids.
Many people say and think exactly this, however knee jerk racist name calling is preventing us from even discussing it, let alone doing something about it.
a resident of College Terrace
on Mar 19, 2013 at 11:37 am
[Post removed due to possible copyright infringement]
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 19, 2013 at 11:58 am
The point that everyone is missing is what these people are doing to our economy, which is precarious enough without them. They are far more than 1% of the market! Go to any open house and see who the majority of attendees are. The are wrecking our economy in order to make themselves all the more wealthy!
It is the new "golden rule": He who has the gold makes the rules....
@not an issue: do you ever post anything that is not accusatory or nasty? It seems you do have issues with freedom of speech.
a resident of Community Center
on Mar 19, 2013 at 12:22 pm
Chaz, You're keep posting something not related to the Palo Alto local market. People here are very intellectual..
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 19, 2013 at 12:23 pm
Per Chaz's posting: "I think its wise here not to call these folks "Asian".
Call them from the PRC Peoples Republic of China, a group completely separate from folks who are working and living and contributing to the local community. The problem is that locals in America are so racially sensitized that any observation of an undesirable economic development becomes a tired old racial namecalling."
THANK YOU. "Asian" also refers to E. Indians, and they are immigrating here in droves too.
I was born here and am so tired of people confusing me with these immigrant Chinese who reflect poorly on other Asians with their unethical behavior. While I have friends who are white, Chinese-Americans, Chinese immigrants, E. Indian immigrants, I am just as "American" as the white majority due to my upbringing in Silicon Valley. It proves that people are shallow at heart. Don't hate ME.
a resident of College Terrace
on Mar 19, 2013 at 12:25 pm
Asian love buying houses and American love cars. It's a Cultural Thing. I don't see a problem here!
a resident of Community Center
on Mar 19, 2013 at 2:22 pm
On the contrary, what is the point, it seems it is you that has issues with free speech, since you have problems with what I say.
In general these topics have become forums for bashing the Chinese. Too bad. Not sure what can be said about someone who complains while talking about " our" city and " our" neighborhood.
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 19, 2013 at 6:48 pm
@Not an issue: You should not be revealing people's names online. It could get PA Online and you in deep trouble.
a resident of Community Center
on Mar 19, 2013 at 6:57 pm
Doolittle-- are you referring to the post that was deleted after being up for almost 24 hours? I did not use anyone's full name-- but how do you know that those are not some of my other online identities?
Are names copyrighted? How could I and the online be in trouble? Does that mean that pa online has to check every name that's used to make sure it is not revealing someone's name?
Please clarify your comment.
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Mar 19, 2013 at 7:25 pm
I started reading this thread because a few weeks ago, we received a flyer from a real-estate agent looking for homes for sale that boasted in the flyer that 75 percent of her buyers were Asian. I was a bit stunned because I thought talking about the race of would-be buyers was kind of verboten under various fair-housing laws. I also didn't see why I, as a would-be seller, would care. (As long as the money's the right color and legal tender . . .)
But this discussion makes matters a little clearer--instead of IPO money driving up the market, we're now supposed to have money from China driving it up.
That all said, I suspect the long-term effect in Palo Alto will be limited. We have limited housing stock and someone once posted here that something like 30 percent of the houses here had paid-off mortgages. It's not a city where it's easy for someone to come and, say, buy a block's worth of properties. There's so little for sale that I suspect a lot of the money goes elsewhere--southern California, other parts of the Bay Area. (For a more international perspective, there's an interesting story in Vanity Fair about pricey London real estate being bought up by plutocrats from a number of resource-rich countries.)
Some people (rrrreal Amurricans) will make money from this. Others, the would-be buyers, are in a bind as this sort of thing makes it hard to compete. However, I don't think we're at the crazy levels of the dot-com boom when suddenly "nice" houses were getting a million over asking price. (Though we may get there.)
The whole UC foreign-student thing, on the other hand, is *unfair*--the UCs have essentially sought out foreign and out-of-state students because those students pay higher tuition and helps the UCs make up for state budget shortfalls. I get the logic, but it *is* counter to the mission of the UCs which is to offer a reasonaly priced higher education to California students.
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 19, 2013 at 7:47 pm
I may have mis-spelled it, being too busy at the moment to look it up, but there are super wealthy mainland China folks - like Bo Xilai sic - perhaps) and the folks in charge of their vaunted highspeed rail and etc. who are undoubtedly corrupt, have made a super amount of money, AND want to get it out of China. Regular citizens in China were upset about the highspeed rail coverup and other appalling, coirrupt, dangerous ways of conducting government and business in China. One just wonders about those with a ton of money and how it was "earned." There has been a lot of commercial and military theft of IP, espionage, and for God's sake - it is a Communist country! I am concerned about "investment" from a country where the financial records are considered unreliable and who knows how someone has made a bundle. I don't mean the average working person in China.
Need I even mention the terrible record on human rights -- oh, I guess we sweep that one under the rug. Tibetans and Uigers. Political dissidents, some of them regular, concerned Chinese people.
Remember when there was a female Tibetan student at Stanford a couple of years ago and the news media reported she had been hacked by red China.
This has nothing to do with the fine people from HK and Taiwan.
a resident of College Terrace
on Mar 20, 2013 at 8:00 am
You are right, Bo. Considering that an awful lot of hacking is done by mainland China, an awful lot of spying is done by them, and human rights are trampled by them every day.....why are we letting so many of them into our country, and often giving them high security clearances?? Especially when they have no intention of ever becoming citizens? We have a neighbor whose parents have been here 30 years, and he and his parents have yet to become citizens.
The newly appointed head of SLAC is mainland Chinese, no citizenship, high security clearance. The people recently busted at NASA were mostly mainland Chinese, no citizenship, high security clearances. Most of the people busted at Lockheed in the last 20 years, ditto. Why do we keep permitting this?
To make matters worse, when they enter the country, they are never checked for signs of illness, although their airports check everyone for signs of illness at entry.
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Mar 20, 2013 at 8:19 am
Are you serious Chairman Mao? What a narrow minded diatribe
"why are we letting so many of them into our country, and often giving them high security clearances?? "
Who is "them"?? are you painting all chinese with one brush. Those that are given high security clearances are vetted appropriately.
" We have a neighbor whose parents have been here 30 years, and he and his parents have yet to become citizens."
Do you interrogate your neighbors as to their citizenship?
I have neighbors that came from China and are citizens.
"The newly appointed head of SLAC is mainland Chinese, no citizenship, high security clearance. "
You need to check your facts.Chi-Chang Kao is Taiwanese. How do you know what his citizenship is? And if he is not a citizen he has been thoroughly vetted.
" The people recently busted at NASA were mostly mainland Chinese, no citizenship, high security clearances."
What people recently busted at NASA???? These were claims made by a republican congressman from Virginia. Now you are resorting to outright lies
" Most of the people busted at Lockheed in the last 20 years, ditto."
What people busted at Lockheed?? Careto provide some proof for any of your wild claims??
" To make matters worse, when they enter the country, they are never checked for signs of illness, although their airports check everyone for signs of illness at entry."
What a revolting comment!!!! Care to back that claim up with some facts????
a resident of Crescent Park
on Mar 20, 2013 at 9:24 am
This conversation must continue.
It is just because we are such an intellectual community that there are enough post-racial people, we are all mixed blood, not to turn this into a cliche ridden discussion about race.
What this is about is an large amount of cash, much smuggled from mainland China, buying up Palo Alto real estate at inflated prices, and cheating the educational system.
We either dont talk about it because some misguided folks will call us racist, or we say that everyone is mixed race and only some are criminals. This is about not standing around with our mouths shut as our community becomes a place for international Chinese criminals to launder their money. The Russians did the same thing in Cyprus - and look how that turned out for them. (The Russians are Caucasian - by definition.) This is about inadequate regulation.
a resident of Greenmeadow
on Mar 20, 2013 at 9:44 am
If this does continue you will get a lot of people wanting to sell. I am thinking about it because I dont want these people as my neighbors and I dont want my kids thinking cheating in school is OK. The market will sort this out.
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Mar 20, 2013 at 11:03 am
Hmm, maybe it's time to stop reading this thread. It's really descending into the lunatic fringe.
So the kids of Chinese immigrants in Palo Alto all cheat on their tests, their money comes from criminal activity in China, they commit espionage against the US government, and they are communists...do you realize how crazy you all sound?
You all seem to be ignoring my observation that the overwhelming majority of Chinese immigrants are well-educated technical professionals who landed good jobs at US tech firms. Most of the ones I've met live here quite modestly and could only afford it after saving for years to buy the less expensive houses/condos here in town.
Again, you are unfairly painting this group with some hysterical, hyperbolic stereotype that fits a very small proportion of this group. I can't believe the poster who talked about Bo Xilai as evidence of how horrible the Chinese in Palo Alto are. The US created Bernie Madoff, Adam Lanza, and John Wayne Gacey, but that doesn't mean all Americans are evil.
It's pretty clear from the content of their posts that many contributors here belong to an older generation, so it's perhaps a bit more understandable why they think the way they do. But wow, it's still quite incredible to read some of this stuff.
a resident of Crescent Park
on Mar 20, 2013 at 11:11 am
> Grover, a resident of the Adobe-Meadows neighborhood said:
> ... well-educated technical professionals ... at US tech firms. ...
Maybe the lunatic fringe ought to broaden their sites to this whole group because they seem to be a problem all over the country, if not the world.
At least in China they know how to handle corruption when they can find it ... bang! Here we just give wag a finger at them and give them raises.
a resident of another community
on Mar 20, 2013 at 11:40 am
"Beware the sugar-coated bullets of the bourgeoisie."
a resident of College Terrace
on Mar 20, 2013 at 1:17 pm
Mainland Chinese come here, invest money, and then pressure governments to make policy in their favor. They threaten to withdraw their money, so they get their way.
Since when does a democratic country kowtow to the wishes of a minority? Is this becoming a dictatorship? If so, it will not be a benign one like Singapore (where I have lived).
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 20, 2013 at 3:39 pm
a resident of Greater Miranda
on Mar 20, 2013 at 4:54 pm
This conversation has become interesting. The real risk to the US is Plutocratic, Kleptocratic China and those who have scrabbled their way to the top by means that would be odious to most people, let alone a Northern Californian liberal. Its not just here. Chinese money is buying up the nicest places in the free world, only to bring their values and corruption to wherever they go. Its a seismic shift. Its not just Palo Alto. You cant just up and leave. There is no where to go to escape our new leaders. The despotic Chinese. At least in the US we know that this was a result of our greed, our free market ideology, our outsourcing of industry to China, our love of cheap stuff at Walmart. Imagine if you lived in Europe. There the Chinese are buying up at just the same rate in all the nicest places. The Europeans are suffering from Wall Street, and then the Chinese waves of global capital.
When this all shakes out the US will have handed global supremacy to an utterly ruthless kleptocracy, who hacks our systems, can bring down our infrastructure and neuter our ICMs. Meanwhile we will have educated their children at Palo Alto schools and the UCs!
a resident of Community Center
on Mar 20, 2013 at 4:54 pm
Some f these comments are scary. Not sure if thy come from ignorance or racism. One commentor I recognize from other threads-- always looking for an excuse to bad the Chinese and always has a friend/ neighbor/ heard from a friend to use as an example of how evil the Chinese are. Hopefully these people represent. A minority in our city
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Mar 20, 2013 at 5:38 pm
The somewhat more relevant question that should be asked as a result of this is what is happening to the education of our American born (regardless of race) children when our UCs are favoring out of State and international students who pay higher fees than the Californian born graduating high school seniors?
We have a population that is growing, but our number of UC places is not keeping pace and the number of acceptances for Californians is becoming a smaller percentage every year.
Californians are increasingly looking at private colleges or out of State as the only place they have a chance of being accepted. This is adding debt to the next generation of Californian born college graduates and that is not even discussing whether or not they will return when they have graduated college.
Is this what we want for our children?
a resident of Community Center
on Mar 20, 2013 at 6:02 pm
Parent -- what about foreign born people that have become citizens? What about people born outside the state that are now residents? Doesn't the UC system guarantee a place to California residents if they are within a certain place in their graduating class?
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 20, 2013 at 6:09 pm
CHINA is an evil government. It is a dictatorship that is Communist. My mother left a Communist satellite country in the late 70s. Like other people who escaped, she did not believe in Communism. Many of the Chinese from Communist China are not Communists, they are extremely Capitalist. However, they like the get-rich-quick scene they THINK exists here, and are here only to get wealthier while they hope for a big change in government ( overthrow of Communism). Then they will take their money and go home.
As a China-watcher, I learned Mandarin in middle school and high school. I grew up in a predominantly Chinese neighborhood. I understand most of the conversations I overhear in locker rooms, grocery stores, whatever ( unless they are in Cantonese). Wanna know what they think os us? That we are too soft on our children, that we do not use enough physical discipline on them. We smell bad because we drink milk. We are not as intelligent as a race as they are. We are easy to trick and fool. We work for very little money and have health care that is much too expensive. They brag to each other about all the money they have, all the money they are going to make, and what great schools their kids got into because they could pay so much more than American parents. And they think the Japanese are racist, the Koreans stupid, and the Taiwanese lazy. THE END
a resident of Community Center
on Mar 20, 2013 at 6:26 pm
For all the hysterical pronouncements on this thread (it is an issue, mary! Chairman Mao, horseriding instructor etc) we have no actual proof of their claims. All we have is hearsay, factoids, outright lies, generalizations and a nice pile of BS.
As to the latest claim, it is an issue would have us believe that all the Chinese talk about is how terrible we are! Really?
Thanks for an amusing diatribe
a resident of another community
on Mar 20, 2013 at 8:27 pm
@it's an issue,
I agree with your "China-Watcher" points 100%. That has been my experience too.
However, here is where we differ. I agree with their assessment. That too has has been my experience.
a resident of Palo Verde
on Mar 20, 2013 at 9:03 pm
Getting dizzy reading through all this commentary. Seems like a lot of "confirmation bias" going on.
I'll affirm the contested assertion around 14 posts above, ". . . their airports check everyone for signs of illness at entry." Among dozens of countries I've visited, Beijing is the only airport where I've run a gauntlet of infrared scanners to flag anyone with high fever. Understandable in 2009 with the swine flu scare.
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Mar 20, 2013 at 9:28 pm
Not an issue,
I think placement is guaranteed to the top 4 percent of a graduating class--may be wrong, it's been a long time since I looked at this stuff. That may be for Berkeley and UCLA.
My understanding is that a decent student who has the qualifying classes can get into a UC, just not the prestigious ones.
It takes a couple of years to establish residency and get the residency rate for tuition. That's kind of the crux of the issue--the UCs have upped the percentage of non-resident students because they pay more.
As for the general tone of this thread---ummm, you *do* realize that the United States still has a much larger economy than does China? China's is growing faster than ours, but it's still going to take a while.
When I was a kid the Soviet Union was the big threat. Later on, there was lots of angst over the coming global dominance of Japan. Now it's China and when it crashes (which it will, though I think it will recover--too many people for it not to be a major player), there will be increased muttering about India.
There are real issues, but they're getting buried in a kind of yellow-peril demonization.
Excuse me while I go get some cow spit for my coffee.
a resident of Midtown
on Mar 21, 2013 at 1:43 pm
I left out a couple of important points about the mainland Chinese and racism. Although they pull the race card frequently, I have many, many times over the past five years heard them complain about Hispanics and Blacks. They complain openly that these are the only two races who have come to America that have not prospered. (Never mind that the blacks and many Hispanics did not come here willingly). [Portion removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]
My husband, a stock analyst, has been approached several times in the last five years by Chinese nationals wanting "insider information". He has informed them that it would mean serious jail time as it is a felony. They seem to think they would be exempt somehow. Last year, he showed me an article in the Chronicle about a Chinese national jailed for insider trading and influence peddling!
So, basically, there are a large number of mainland Chinese here locally who are not very nice, are very racist, and who are criminal. Not every one of them, but a large number. And they seem not to want to be here and seem not to like it here (too foreign, is the complaint). As an immigrant's daughter, I find this strange, that they do not want to be here and that they do not want to mingle, or allow their children to mingle, with Americans. When we lived in Taiwan and Singapore, we experienced no racism problems there.
a resident of Crescent Park
on Mar 21, 2013 at 2:06 pm
Well, it could be said that we are awash with corruption from all over ... the only corruption that we might have some control over is the corruption that comes in from overseas, the corruption that is already here seems to have taken root.
I think it's normal for people who come from homogeneous societies to feel insular, often to the point of racism or arrogance. There are few countries on this planet that have much to really be proud of, except for perhaps a few remarkable individuals, yet people seem to like to play these games with themselves and sometimes they get way out of hand.
My only concern is that Americans, or "we" as Americans have tended to model the present and future on the past, that is, that foreign people will eventually melt into the melting pot of our culture and that we will benefit from absorbing parts of other cultures. That meme may be valid or it may be totally erroneous, we really have nothing to base it on but our short cross-section of experience in our own aberrant history. What if we are wrong? And, we have been wrong on so much in America as we look back how the trends of things we have taken for granted have scaled up to the national and international levels. If ever the phrase "past performance is no guarantee of future success" had a meaning it it now.
All of these "trends" are trends that will work themselves out, all the problems we see today will eventually resolve leading to new and interesting problems ... the real problem is that they leave people living now in the wake of all these global cataclysms and uncertainty.
Corporations raise holy hell out any uncertainty they face - in the smallest of tax hikes, loophole closings, or regulations, but we don't seem to accept any expressions of uncertainty for people, never mind that millions of people's pensions have been erased, social security is threatened, their children's futures are threatened, their accustomed ways of life, etc.
Let's just be open and fair. I have to admit that while I think it is good to air these ideas some of the expressions are a bit hard to read though and have seemed to have led to a piling on, despite the fact that I recognize many of the comments made as having some basis in reality. If we are going to have a global world we have to figure out some way to get past this, and make sure that one groups does not get power and try to raise themselves over others unfairly ever again, but people will be people. :-(
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Mar 21, 2013 at 2:45 pm
it is an issue seems to be following in the footsteps of Chairman MAo by attacking our local chinese.
"Although they pull the race card frequently, I have many, many times over the past five years heard them complain about Hispanics and Blacks"
Who is them?? All the chinese in Palo Alto??? Are you trying to disguise your racism by claiming that they are racist????
"My husband, a stock analyst, has been approached several times in the last five years by Chinese nationals wanting "insider information""
Several times in the last 5 years???? So less than once a year???
And no white americans ever wanted insider stock information, correct??
"Last year, he showed me an article in the Chronicle about a Chinese national jailed for insider trading and influence peddling!"
Checked the Chronicle online and no such article exists. Perhaps it is an issue can produce it for us, since he/she is using to paint all chinese as criminals. And again no white american was ever jailed for insider trading and influence peddling, correct????
"So, basically, there are a large number of mainland Chinese here locally who are not very nice, are very racist, and who are criminal. Not every one of them, but a large number."
A large number?? How large?? Perhaps you can provide these "facts" to us since you are tarring and entire nationality with a broad brush.
I cannot believe that you actually dare to make these bogus statements.
Obviously some chinese are bad, as are some hispanics, some whites, some (insert nationality here), that is human nature. Your claims go beyond criticism. They reek of racism and hatred
"As an immigrant's daughter, I find this strange, that they do not want to be here and that they do not want to mingle, or allow their children to mingle, with Americans."
This claim appears quite often in this forum. Usually by the same person--who once again provides no facts or proof to back up their ridiculous claims. Of course this person thinks that if they say the same thing, but use a different identity, that readers will not recognize that these slanders come from one person.
Fortunately I believe that people like it is an issue is not representative of the residents of Palo Alto. Rather he/she is a deeply troubled person who seems to hate the chinese and who knows what other nationalities they have it in for
a resident of Community Center
on Mar 21, 2013 at 6:32 pm
Well I do have to admire the tenacity of it is an issue-- spending days, weeks or months identifying mainland chinese and then listening in to their conversations. And then taking the time to report back to us how evil they are!
I hope I am not the only one that finds this posters statements to be ridiculous and entirely u founded.
And I also thought her husband was an economist
a resident of Palo Alto Hills
on Mar 21, 2013 at 6:46 pm
Ho hum, this is getting old. Not an issue, who are you talking about? Are you trying to "out" someone? Have you wondered why your posts are so often deleted? Maybe you teeter on the edge of legality?
Wu T right....Palo Alto big racist place.
a resident of Palo Alto Hills
on Mar 21, 2013 at 6:59 pm
The fact that this thread is now on the second page and people are still fighting about who is racist and who is not means that this has gone on too long. Let us now put it put of its misery.
a resident of Community Center
on Mar 21, 2013 at 7:16 pm
Lullaby and goodnight? True I cassionally get a post deleted. But often? Really, sounds a bit like it is an issues factoids?
I am just commenting on the similarity of comments in these threads regarding Chinese. Draw your own conclusions. And what am I doing that is illegal?
Please elaborate. Replying to others posts s not illegal. Stating that postings seem to be from the same person is not illegal. Spe ulating as to the identity of the poster is not illegal.
But pray tell what am I doing that " teetering on the edge of legality".
Your comments actually remind me of another poster that tried the same approach to stifle comments that were not in line with his!/ her beliefs.
a resident of Crescent Park
on Mar 21, 2013 at 10:05 pm
Big is a registered user.
Take home points:
Its a global world.
Pure "race" doesnt exist but ethnicity does.
China is almost unique in that it is not multi-cultural.
Large numbers of mainland Chinese with political connections are buying land in Palo Alto.
This is legal in this country but illegal in China. They not allowed to take money out of the country. They are criminals in China but legal here.
These people send their kids to our schools and they do much better than our kids.
That they may be creating a bubble in house prices.
And finally that Chinese are racist but the multicultural coffee colored people of America are not!
I wonder if it is racist to accuse one ethnically distinct group of people as being racist but say that Americans are not racist because we are multicultural and poly-national?
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text:
Metasploit - Win XP sp3 - port 445 exploit !! and Meta bug
can't i exploit windows xp sp3 at port 445 cuz itried many payloads reverse with no use :S
so is there any way to exploit port 445 at xp sp3 ?
second while trying to exploit it via Metasploit i couldn't and the meta got bug and then disappear i took screenshot fast be4 it disappear here it is :
any idea ?

subset: commoncrawl


text:
n. A phone call that comes in without any warning or explanation from the person who transferred the call.
"A common business call nightmare these days is to get passed from person to person as a cold transfer, which means you have to explain your problem to each new listener."
by hesk September 24, 2009


text:
...and it's freaking beautiful! Very similar to the new S class but better. Wow, i'm loving this design. Can't wait to see what the boys at AMG do.
Here's the carscoop article...
*contorted facial expression* You are soooo beautiful...to meeehee...
wow, that car is beautiful
Glad they finally got rid of those circular blob headlights. That new front end is quite an improvement. Looks like it uses the same doors as the BMW 6 series.
You're right clothio, that is beautiful!
dang that's an awesome car!
wow... that is one sexy car... i want one...
i still dont like the fender flairs, they look tacked on
umm... no thanks
oh yes, that will do. the only thing that i'm not sold on are those rims but that can easily be changed. the rest of the car is very, very nice.
Yeah, the rims are horrible. The rest of the car looks great though.
[image]http://ohv.prettyblack.jp/1971roadrunner2.jpg [/image]
you know what... coupes are growing on me. correct me if i'm wrong:the CL is like 6 series and the CLK is like 3 coupeand the CL is built on S class platform like 6 is on the 7 platform.
6 is built on the 5 platform.
coupes are growing on me alot actually. i love the styling of the CLK althouhg it is more expensive than i can understand why and there's no CLK AMG unless you want to get a conv but i dont want that. here's to waiting for the m3 coupe to not look like it does now.
woah! the new 335i coupe does 0-60 in 5.5! that's not the M. that's the regular one. omg the m is giong to do it in 4.5 i bet. i cant wait to see CLKs and infiniti g's in the rear view.


text:
I've spent my headphone-wearing life tethered to a computer or device anytime I wanted to listen to sound without disturbing others. My computer, my iPod, my iPad. Movies, music, YouTube videos. And all without a splitter to share the sound with a friend or one of my kids. A friend of mine is always extolling the virtues of his Bluetooth headphones: being able to do things such as clean the house while listening to lectures and audiobooks. It frees you up from being attached to a fragile and expensive device. So I was excited to finally get the opportunity to review some.
Tenqa sent me some of their REMXD Wireless Bluetooth Headphones to try out. After charging them, I tried to follow the pairing directions, to pair them to my iPad. The included instructions were clear, but not accurate. The instructions say to have the headphones off while pairing, which isn't correct. After much trial and error (with the head phones off, on, plugged into a USB port, not plugged into a USB port), I was finally able to pair them with my iPad (and later a laptop). (Tip: Have the headphones on and plugged into the USB port.)
Continue Reading "Freedom From Cords: Tenqa REMXD Bluetooth Wireless Stereo Headphones" »


text:
Interesting. Thanks for the link.
Welcome to the Quilting Board!
I'm really liking the dresdens and the chevrons.
I just have to try this one. It is an interesting design.
That looks so cool, gotta try it! Thanks
Born to Quilt, Forced to work.
Thanks for the link....
Ohhh pretty! Thanks for the link. I just pinned it.
Really like dresdens and this one is really nice.
OH JULIE...love your mug rug and just look at those pretty colors. What a good job you did. I saved the project in my 'want to bucket'. thanks for letting me see what you did. Keep up the good work. What nice gifts a set of those would make for special occasions.
Vickey S.


text:
Courts remitted close to $90 million in fines last year, with boy racers benefiting the most.
Waikato experienced the most remittances at $6.1 million, half of which was completed wiped, imposing no alternative punishment.
About $2.4 million of this was substituted with community work, the rest constituting community detention, home detention and jail time, Fairfax reported.
About two-thirds of the remittances - $60 nationwide and $4.7 million in Waikato - were made up of speeding fines, driving a pink-stickered vehicle and for doing "burn-outs".
According to the figures, released under the Official Information Act, the number of remittances in the Waikato are up 50 per cent from $4m in 2009, Fairfax reported.
Police Association boss Greg O'Connor says the remittances are hindering police efforts to curb boy-racer behavior.
"I don't think judges realise it - it makes a bit of a joke of the system.
"These judges deliver stern warnings from the bench, but the next thing they're remitting fines. It's not all judges, just a few."
O'Connor said the boy-racer community was used to the system of letting fines build up until they were replaced with community work.
One boy racer had accrued about $18,000 in fines, which were then wiped in exchange for 180 hours' community work, averaging a rate of about $100 an hour.
"It's not the Average Joe who has got a fine that's going to get it remitted ... they'll be chased like hell to pay it," O'Connor said.
"It's the ones that thumb their nose and build up fines that'll have them remitted."
O'Connor said seizing offender's property would be more effective.
But Courts Minister Chester Borrows told Fairfax anyone who thought getting a fine remitted was an "easy out" was mistaken.
"People who cannot pay their fines do not get off the hook - they go to jail or do community work in lieu of those fines," he said.
Over the past five years the number of overdue fines had actually fallen from 58 per cent to 43 per cent, he said.
Reparations and fines owed had also dropped from $800 million in 2008/2009 to $575 million.
- nzherald.co.nz


text:
[quote user="AsianGiant"]On my way to work, I came up with a theory about Tiki.
Basically, Tiki has always been a goal oriented person, never letting anyone or so it seems,
get in the way of his goals. He literally did everything he could as a player to put the Giants
on his shoulders to get them to the promise land. You can't ask for anything more out of a player.
Strahan essentially has done the samething for the team as a defensive player.
The way he retired from the team was not what he had in mind, issues with the coach, perhaps
issues with players and the constant media rumors of his retirement(although that was his fault).
So now as a commentator(not journalist) he has the opportunity to allow some of his bitterness about
the ended relationship flow through.
I admit the early criticism on Eli before season has even started is a bit mind boggling but again that
is due to the manner in which he left the team.
In his eyes, he hoped that releasing the "retirement" rumors would allow his team to pick up the
slack and play hard one last time for that beloved ring. But with an 8-8 record, it was very much
half ***-ed...
So in all his glory and hard work, his team did not return the same effort...
[/quote]Well since if I answer back on TAGF I get flamed and it's the big Tiki hate fest over there... I like what I read in Ralphie's blog....

Barber also seemed surprised by the reaction (or overreaction) to his comments.

I just saw it on ESPN News and Im like, Are you kidding me? Tiki said. Five sentences on a half-hour halftime show and now all of a sudden Im going to be back page news? Youve got to love New York.

Which is true, and I read Eli's comments the way Tiki did, in that Eli was saying Tiki quit on the team. I do think Tiki is trying to break from the mold of being a Giant Homer and did it poorly this first outing. He needs to script his words better on how he describes Eli's leadership. Saying "Comical" is unprofessional and he should recant that. To say that Eli was uncomfortable in the leadership role is something all of us have observed. I would bet money, that if this took place in some other city not in the Northeast, nobody would have even noticed....


text:
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text:
Well, that was unexpected.
The Washington Capitals and Boston Bruins entered Tuesday night's game at Verizon Center on polar opposites of the momentum spectrum.
The Bruins, the defending Stanley Cup Champions who have rolled all season and have a ridiculous plus-71 goal differential, were coming off a 6-5 win over the Flyers on Sunday. The Capitals, owners of a minus-three goal differential, had lost three of four, struggling to find consistency all season. They were missing a full third of their payroll and their three biggest stars.
The script was set perfectly for a Boston Massacre, as it were.
So, naturally, the Capitals were 5-3 winners in what was a huge victory heading into the All-Star break.
No, the Capitals did not execute an excellent game plan; they did not beat down the most physical team in the NHL with aggressive forechecking. They were outmuscled along the boards often, made silly passes, and were dominated for stretches by a clearly superior hockey team.
Instead, they rode a hat trick from tiny Mathieu Perreault, who was playing on the top line for the second game in a row to help compensate for the loss of Ovechkin, to their biggest win of the season.
"This is the best feeling ever," said a red-eyed Perreault in the locker room afterwards. "Getting three goals and we win the game, this is awesome. This is what you dream of. You dream to play in the NHL, but when you score three goals, it's even better."
Washington got lucky on several of their goals, including Cody Eakin's and Perreault's first. They got very lucky with several Bruins chances in their own end and, as per usual over the last month, needed a great performance from Tomas Vokoun to stay on top and win the game.
But the Capitals as a team showed incredible pluck and resiliency for the second game in a row, in fact. Having fallen behind in this game on a very unlucky bounce just like they fell behind early Sunday in Pittsburgh, they bore down in their own building and got the job done.
That being said, no one should be fooled here, and I honestly don't think many people will be. The Capitals still have several holes, even with Ovechkin in the lineup, that need to be addressed, none more critical than a new center for the second line.
The Bruins exposed this weakness, like all good teams do, forcing Washington's defenders to stretch and therefore making the centers do more work. In general, they struggled, and it wasn't a coincidence that the Bruins got good chances in front because of it.
Nevertheless, it's not often that a team as depleted and one with as many flaws as the Capitals have are able to beat the defending Stanley Cup Champions. Two points is two points against a team like Bruins.
It was a crazy game, one with many ups and downs in terms of momentum, by the end of the game, it sounded like the roof was going to blow off the Verizon Center. The fans knew how big this game was.
So did the players, and it only showed with how hard they worked to help close out the victory.
"The guys buckled down, and they won the game," said Dale Hunter. "They wanted to win it. They really wanted to win bad."
With six days to recuperate between now and their next practice, bruises will heal. Bones will ache a little less. Washington has a chance to get their legs back under them, something they need desperately.
The second half is absolutely murderous, particularly March. The Caps have three more games with Boston, two of which are in TD Garden, and two visits to Madison Square Garden, one of which is on the final day of the season and could have huge playoff implications. They have a road back to back against Chicago (19-5-4 at home) and Detroit (20-2-1 at home). They go to Philadelphia.
That shouldn't be the focus now, though. The Capitals just beat the Stanley Cup Champions. That doesn't solve their problems and it doesn't make them great again.
But damn, does it feel good.Harry Hawkings is a college student who covers the Caps for RtR. Follow him on Twitter here.
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text:
Town Square
Time for real republicans to return
Original post made by Hoops, Mohr Park, on Nov 7, 2012
I am so sick of the negative,hateful and yes,idiotic rhetoric.
This is a great country and it is time to retire these right wing zealots and have a country that can form a compromise on important issues and lose the hate.
Nobody has all the answers but you cannot solve a problem when someone like Norquist iholds people in congress hostage because they are so weak and so selfish.
Our politics are being destroyed by cable tv and radio clowns.
Comments (20)
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 7, 2012 at 10:23 pm
@ Hoops
I couldn't agree more!!!!
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 7, 2012 at 11:10 pm
Hey Hoops, Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin and probably Rover Norquist make a whole lot more money than you do. They are the makers, and they have a lot to lose as the 51% takers squeeze the rest of us dry. How can a thoughtful and rational person stay moderate when Obama raised the cigarette tax and tanning salon taxes over the past four years of his socialist rule? When Obama gives our money away to lazy bums who won't work in an economy where 8% are unemployed? When people can't find jobs because 8% are unemployed? Where our president acts like Santa Claus and gives my tax money to ghetto kids? The tide is rising, which it always does before the tsunami hits. I don't see where moderation comes into play at all. Really. I think you and your ilk are seriously deluded. I want my country back, Dude, and the liberal socialist Marxists can only talk about moving forward. It makes me want to puke.
a resident of Stoneridge
on Nov 8, 2012 at 7:07 am
The most hateful spewing has been coming from the
liberals even after the election results. What poor losers
even in winning. Ugly people. What about the liberal
extremists? They are ruining everything we stand for.
They are rude and ungrateful. They don't listen to anyone
or anything. Like wild animals who think whatever feels
good for them - do it and damn the country and everyone
else. Are you calling for them to stand down as well?
America is on the way to being the most crude and rude
Country with these 'children' running amuk. Yet they cry and
say we're hateful because we believe in manners and morals.
It's still God and Country for us. We will not stand down for
the likes of heathans. You're not the only one with an opinion.
Why did this administration block the military votes....AGAIN???
a resident of Mohr Park
on Nov 8, 2012 at 7:31 am
There is one little fact that the right wingers seem to ignore.They are always spouting off about the founding fathers and we should govern and live on what they envisioned.
Well the reality is that in the 1780's people actually did live off the land.There were not 300 plus million people living here.There were no computers,tv's,radios or any technology.Todays world to them would be alien or like living on a different planet.We also do not have slaves and women actually are equal citizens.
Just wanted to point out how maybe a world that can be destroyed with the push of a button is not something they had a clue about.
So maybe it is time to join the 21st century and learn what compromise and common sense mean.
a resident of Amador Estates
on Nov 8, 2012 at 7:35 am
you and your other obamabot sociaists ... including the PW , Gov. Jerry and others have won a major battle. you reap what you sow.
i am not extremely wealthy but have a net worth of just under 4 million. i pay more than my fair share. while i love many things about calif, i have decided to leave.
i am also one you have encouraged to leave. i am guilty of loving the u.s. constitution, free-enterprise, a strong national defense, freedom, a strong family unit and other conservative values. if you had me as your next door neighbor, i'd be the one to guard your property when you were away, to care for your family during emergencies, and to help make life more enjoyable and less stressful as friends can do.
with more of us who have been 'pulling the cart' leave, good luck on finding enough people with the strength to pull the ever-expanding heavy load in calif.
a resident of Mohr Park
on Nov 8, 2012 at 8:52 am
Will do....Your post is the problem.You hold yourself up like you are a hero for doing exactly what you should be doing.Your problem is that you are too blind to your own greed and unwillingness to pay a little more in taxes which you can easily afford to help fix all the problems that need fixing.When you eliminate all the bs and get down to it,you do not want to pay any more taxes.What would your tax rate be if this was 1950?I think you can afford to go back to the tax you paid when Clinton was in office.
I am a middle class,small business owner and I do not want to pay more taxes either,but I see and understand the alternative.
Everyone needs to sacrifice some,including people on ridiculous pensions.Everyone gives a little more and stays on top of the people spending it and we can be a much better society.
Take a step back and look at our country from another perspective like you are an observer from another planet or whatever and we look like petulant children.
If everyone is willing to make a sacrifice and use common sense,all of our financial problems could be solved EASILY.
a resident of Amador Estates
on Nov 8, 2012 at 9:03 am
tell me the name of your business and i woll gladly show up to continue this discussion. during this discussion i will tell you how generous i have been with my time and money. you have no effing idea how incredibly generous i am and i resent your assumption that i am somehow greedy. i have been a generous employer, employee and community volunteer. kma.
a resident of Birdland
on Nov 8, 2012 at 9:20 am
liberalism is a disease is a registered user.
Hoops, you whingly accuse 'will do' of holding himself up as a hero for watching out for his neighbors, but at the same time you demand kudos for paying more in taxes. You leftist hypocrites are all the same. You're so great at telling other people what to do becasue you think you know what's best for everyone and you're insistent that everyone follow your lead.....like lemmings off the cliff.
Grow up and stop admiring yourself in the mirror. You're note the messiah you think you are, but your narcisism reminds us of community organizer occupying the white house.
a resident of Oak Hill
on Nov 8, 2012 at 9:45 am
Well, "liberalism", the "community organizer" won fair and square. You can either get with the times, or you can remain a relic who is out of touch with what's happening in this country. I know which path you'll choose.
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 8, 2012 at 9:54 am
Who do you think you are, Hoops? Do you make more money than Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin? Then what gives you the right to talk like you do. In addition to being the intellectual wing of the Republican Party, they are also shrewd business people who have proven time and time again that they are far more successful than the likes of yourself.
@will do. I know where you're coming from, brother. I'd leave California too but my wife wants to stay. It's time to pack up and go to one of the idillic red states, like Alabama or Nebraska. Not as many illegals there gumming up the grocery lines with their welfare checks and food stamps. And where some types of people know their proper place if you know what I mean.
Most important, places like Nebraska or Idaho aren't going to be innundated by the rising tides of debt that are harbingers of the tsunami of bankruptcy that threatens all of us, and especially our grandchildren and great grandchildren. Because once a govt involves itself in negative spending, the only possible endpoint is a mountainous flood of red ink. Read your economics like I have. You'll see. Au Revoir @willdo. All the takers in this state are going to miss you. And, above all, hang on to your dough and don't let the idea of impoverished kids guilt trip you into paying a higher tax rate. Your economic freedom is far more important than food for kids. You're my hero....
a resident of Stoneridge
on Nov 8, 2012 at 2:40 pm
Maybe hoops needs to get his head outta the
Mariquana cloud. He says we need to keep on
top of the spenders in govt....what does he think
we're doing....JUST THAT!!!
And to Sam...why did this administration block
the military votes AGAIN??? Still waiting for an
answer on that one.
a resident of Birdland
on Nov 8, 2012 at 3:00 pm
liberalism is a disease is a registered user.
Sam, I'm taking your advice and 'getting with the times.'
I'm changing my name to Pedro, enrolling my non-resident offspring in school for free, signing up for food stamps, going on welfare and using the money to buy a new Toyota Pious, I'm starting a pot home growing operation and will be sampling heavily from my harvest. When the Feds come to bust me since pot is still illegal on a federal level) if John Burris can't get me out of jail, I'll enjoy my stay and maybe get a free sex change operation while I'm locked up.
When I get out, I'll start shoplifting, but claim i didn't know i was doing it because I was on my cell phone. Then for my third strike (oh wait, i can commit as many crimes as i want now without fear of being labelled a career criminal), I'll drop by and take your possessions from your house. You won't mind because I'm less fortunate than you and we need to all learn to redistribute. Thanks in advance for helping me see the light and join the unwashed masses of the left that have infected our state.
a resident of Danville
on Nov 8, 2012 at 3:45 pm
Racism by any other name, it's still racism. You're not funny, and you're not cute. Racism is a sickness, and lib-is-a-disease is a real sick puppy. Full of hatred, fear, and self loathing. Pity the fool. Your candidate lost. Your vision of America is passe', rightly flushed down the toilet of historical shame. Read a book or get therapy, but filling up these sites with your sickness seems to only fuel your sickness. Please, get some help.
a resident of Mohr Park
on Nov 8, 2012 at 4:07 pm
it is interesting to look at the audience when Romney was speaking and when Obama was speaking.One is 99 pct white and one looks like the real world.
I am a middle aged white guy and what I see is the anger and fear of older white guys who cannot handle that the world is changing.
Will do... I apologize for you greedy and you may be the most generous person in the world in your private life,but I am talking political life and supporting policies that are not generous to the country and what it needs done.
The other issue here is no matter how they much they deny it,if Obama was white and named David Smith with the identical policies he has put forth,you would not have the absolute contempt and hatred that we have all seen the last 4 years.Obama won,again.Deal with it.All the juvenile idiotic bs about him being a socialist is such utter nonsense with zero basis in fact that you should feel embarrased for even saying it again and again and again.Let go of the fear and use some common sense,you will feel better.
a resident of Mohr Park
on Nov 8, 2012 at 4:29 pm
"If Obama was white and named David Smith with the identical policies he has put forth,you would not have the absolute contempt and hatred that we have all seen the last 4 year."
I don't think so - the hatred and contempt I see on here for Obama is as bad as that which was posted on PW forums while Bush was in office. Our country has become too divided and too full of hatred for other political beliefs, regardless of being conservative or liberal. It isn't the liberal or conservative policies that will destroy America, it is the hatred and unwillingness to compromise and work together to solve problems.
a resident of Downtown
on Nov 8, 2012 at 5:07 pm
Hoops, your original post is filled with insults and anger...accusing others of doing the same. You won friend, why don't you relax and stop trying to trample on the first ammendment rights of others who don't share your views?
a resident of Oak Hill
on Nov 8, 2012 at 6:49 pm
Veronica said: "Racism by any other name, it's still racism. You're not funny, and you're not cute. Racism is a sickness, and lib-is-a-disease is a real sick puppy."
Oooh, "liberalism" or "Pedro": I think that your (lame) attempt at humor may have backfired. Good luck in your awkward attempts to convert more people here to your conservative cause.
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 8, 2012 at 7:36 pm
Im really baffled by comment from Lib is a dis and those from Will do who says- "i am not extremely wealthy but have a net worth of just under 4 million." Are you being serious with your statements? I wonder if you see how these kinds of a statements can be taken as out of touch? I wonder why those in your position think we all want to be the same? Maybe you can't imagine that many of us are happy with our lives, not basing our happiness on our net worth.
Im wondering what makes your hard work and contributions to our community better than mine, because my net worth is less than yours? My wealth comes from what I give back to this community in the career I chose. One that I chose on purpose knowing full well that my net worth will never be even close to a million dollars.
If we are only listening to and believing Bill O'Riley, that 50% of the US just wants things, then maybe it is time to look inward and realize that the hate, accusations, and assumptions are blinding you from the possibility that many of us, regardless of political party, are living in a completely different reality- one that has never been based on net worth in terms of money.
I dont care if you can't imagine that to be true- based on the stereotypes I have read here, Im just grateful my reality isnt based on hate and contempt over false dichotomies. This is when net worth is not really worth it.
a resident of Mohr Park
on Nov 9, 2012 at 5:27 pm
It is so convenient to hide behind your so called first amendment rights.
Obama's path is for the good and success of everyone.Yours is for yourself.You can rationalize it anyway you want,but when you are against doing a little more to help get money needed for schools,rebuilding our infrastructure,etc.,you have made your choice.
I always get a kick out of successful people who have earned a lot of money but forget who bought their goods or paid for their services or what made it possible for them to be successful.Yes you are smart and you worked your butt off but whether you like it or not the gov't built the roads,our education system,the research that created the internet and on and on.
Nobody is a success on their own.Not you.Not me.That is why we all need to give a little more in this time of economic turmoil which was brought on by lack of financial regulation,unecessary unpaid for wars and tax cuts.
Yes you do have your first amendment rights,as do I.I have the right to walk down the street and pass by a mother and a starving infant and just keep on going.That does not make it right.
a resident of Another Pleasanton neighborhood
on Nov 10, 2012 at 12:33 am
Government should only do that which we cannot do ourselves.
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Oh, but they are just ENTITLED to a free living!
We handed out $5 to a hobo who came into the place we ate out at last night. Came right up to the table and interrupted the meal asking for a hand out. $5 cost less than pulling out my carry weapon and getting into all of that.
So, I think Cities just provide support to keep a lid on it all. Until one day, it runs dry.
That day is coming when we gotta.........
There starting to let out "non violent" criminals around here now. I sure hope Vt dosn't turn into one. I've started to carry again in the 2 large cities, for around here "large". Bad sign.
Has, or had when I was there, the distinction of being the highest per capita capture of most wanted criminals.
When bad guys want too disapear.
Hell, aint a much better place than the wilds of Vermont.
Keep yer powder dry. :cheers:
Oh ya, the northeast kindom is a place that you can pretty much disapear if you want to, lots of deep woods to get lost in. Brattelboro and Bennington areas, in southern Vt, still gets it's share of drug dealer arrests from people comming out of Mass and NYC, seems to be a "hot bed" for those activities as well as St Johnsburry area in northern Vt. and Rutland area in central Vt. I could care less about weed but all the hard drugs that are turning up around here kinda has me worried, there has been an influx of heroin, oxycodone and all that kind of shit recently. Just like anywhere else it's getting worse all over,not anything like when we were younger.
What exactly do you believe taxes should pay for? Police? Firefighters? EMS? Road repair? Water and sewer services? Libraries? Schools? What exactly?
No different than the big cities.
I lived in a lot of different places, Vermont being one of them.
Now living is a small community, swamp :) in Florida.
The dangers are not much different than big city life.
Just being in small towns, everyone knows everyone else's business and we hear more.
Police, emergency services, roads, utilities, etc, are a red herring. Those are services that everybody uses, that for the most part can't be practically provided by the private sector. The competitive model doesn't really work when there is physically only room for one road, one utility, etc. As for schools, I would say that those who choose to have children, should bear the entire cost of their education. Nothing against people having kids, but why should I have to pay to educate my neighbor's 5 kids in addition to my one?
:fruit: i smell a troll :fruit:
I didn't call any names. I asked a couple of simple questions. I don't see the need to immediately divide the country into them and us on every topic. If you don't like what I have to say then don't read my posts. But you won't drive me away or stop me from speaking my mind by calling me a troll.


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So, I was the girl who always did her homework. Got this idea while reading the paper this morning.
Welcome to the Quilting Board!
So, I was the girl who always did her homework. Got this idea while reading the paper this morning.
Dotty in NYC
Where art was concerned were you one of those obnoxious over-achievers who made the rest of us drool and restlessly toss and turn the night before the project was due? Yours was going to be super and mine less than engaging? Of course the party hours I was keeping at the time did not contribute to quality work..... And I now adore those who make me reach for better more challenging parts of myself.
This piece contains some truth and should be hung in a politician's office for him to gaze at regularly.
Author; I Don't Know Where I Want to Be -But it Isn't Here!
Love all your work! I recently tried something new (for me anyway) I used Christmas tinsel instead of angelina for making glittery angel wings for a little project. Worked great at a fraction of the cost (especially now after Holiday sales!)
You have brains in your head.
You have feet in your shoes.
You can steer yourself any direction you choose.
Youre on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the guy wholl decide where to go. (Dr. Seuss)
Corky, great idea!! I just saw an ad for an artist from Uganda who uses the foil from wine bottles. I guess I should open a bottle, for art's sake!! (Brooklyn Museum show)
Dotty in NYC
And Dotcom here I am in Chile practically doing the backstroke in fabulous wines and looking for uses for all my empty bottles. I am cutting the bottoms off to set into a curved 'privacy wall' that will go next to the pool. They look like jewels with the sunlight coming through. But I hadn't even thought about using the foil from the tops. Did consider soaking off the labels and using them for decoupage later but haven't messed around with that yet either.......so much to play with.......
Then there is this months project on the wall which is going slowly. (sigh) I made an error that I just couldn't turn into a 'design element' yesterday and spent hours unpicking and recutting. :P
Last edited by suziehammond; 01-22-2013 at 03:52 AM.
Author; I Don't Know Where I Want to Be -But it Isn't Here!
Hi all, I am finally back, Just finished reading all this thread. I am doing a pp wedding star by J.Niemeyer. I am so slow with the pping and to top it off my dd who requested the quilt has a King sized bed!!!! why oh why do I let meyself do this? lol Have to have 161 A an B arcs each. I have the As done and am doing the Bs now and it is already the 22nd of Jan.I really am going to need u guys to say keep on Jo or else a kick in the right place to keep me going. !! will Post pics on the way.
Landscape quilts and needle turn applique favs.Antlers,Ok
It is very cold here and colder out West. Enjoy that sunshine Suzy!!
Dotty in NYC
keep going, jo!! you can do this. start humming "i am woman, hear me roar". helen reddy had it right!
i know all about the bronchitis going around. i took last week off to just wallow in discomfort. evidently, breathing is optional! and i picked this up while on anti-biotics. annoying! anyway, this month's project may be lost in the pile of kleenex and cough drop wrappers. my energy level is at non-existant, or sub-zero. the dogs think it's great as they love lying in bed all day. i am improving, but it is slow. my sympathies to anyone else going through this!
The only bad days are the ones you don't get.
Ooops! Riding the pain train! Sprained my right thumb Sunday evening. I am typing in an unconventional way, using my left thumb for the space bar. That requires me to have to think while typing. LOL When some more swelling goes down I will see if I can sew. Too much pain for rotary cutter though. Twanging a joint suffering from Mr. ARTHER sets a quilter back!!!
Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me. I once was lost but now am found, was blind, but now I see. [John Newton (1725-1807)]


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Love it!!! Can't wait to see it completed.
Welcome to the Quilting Board!
Love it!!! Can't wait to see it completed.
Retired teacher, loving it.
Love quilting also.
love the leaves, they sure are pretty. Slow or not going to have one beautiful quilt,
I can't say I would have ever picked those colors as a background. Having said that, it is a truly inspired choice!! I really can't wait to see the finished quilt which I hope you will post. It's going to be amazing!
I was actually saying I don't have that good an eye for color!
Has to be an adventure, I see great care in your piecing...enjoy your progress and post photos. Thank you
Judy in Phx, AZ
They are beautiful in your fabric choices
Such a beautiful pattern and love the fabrics you're using.
Being skinny isn't easy, so I gave up and opted for being sexy instead. (aunty acid)
Beautiful blocks, they will make a beautiful quilt.
Another Phyllis
This life is the only one you get - enjoy it before you lose it.
So pretty, I love the mid tone pastels mixed with the neutrals and darks. Very unique and lovely colors!
That looks so effective.
Aloha Karen