text:
Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by spikydurian, Oct 13, 2012.
What can I say?
I profess I don't know as many "facts" about Plush as you apparently do. However, since I've followed skating for years, and watched Plush's skating for years and seen him in television interviews and features, and watched a Plush documentary, maybe I do know a few things. But yes, you seem more than capable of correcting me and refreshing my memory.
In any case, just because Plush, Irina, and Alena Leonova for that matter, are Russian does not mean they are necessarily "balletic" in their styles of skating. If Plush took ballet training before he went to Mishin, then he must have stopped focusing on ballet training once he came under Mishin's wing. Surely Plush had great potential as a dancer -- that is abundantly clear. But in the above interview, Plush is quoted as saying, "I chose skating." Therefore, he apparently stopped taking ballet lessons once he chose to become a skater. (What was his age when he went to train with Mishin?) IMO, Plush would have benefited by continuing some rigorous off-ice ballet training. I seriously doubt that happened, particularly because it does not seem that Mishin stresses the importance of ballet to gain more stretch, flexibility and grace on the ice.
Altho' I am guilty of continuing to respond to your posts, lala, this is the wrong thread in which to continue this discussion if its solely about Plush, his artistry and his ballet training.
Poor Kurt (again) Look at the commotion your tweets have created. Tweet in paragraphs, be concise and specific if you ever tweet the P word again otherwise be prepard to be ....
Of course Plitsetskaya would choose a Bolshoi guy! Plushenko is more Bolshoi, with Yagudin having been more Mariinsky.
I think Plushenko is better looking than Godunov, that he looks more like Liepa (the father, Vasiliev's contemporary), and that he'd have been great in Vasiliev's roles, although his Crassus would be as good as his Spartacus.
Uber-fans are funny. I used to really enjoy Plush. I've been quite disappointed in him since after, oh, 2004-2005? Boring programs.
The truth... only the truth
Not only Plisetskaya choose Plush, do you know who is Tsiskaridze? Principal dancer in Bolshoi. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWkq47A41cA
He really admires Plush.
He has ballet training continuously!! David Avdish his friends and his choreoghrapher-i know you don't like him- is ballet dancer and choreographer!! If you have time look at this.
The legendary Nijinsky program, eleven 6.0!! Perfect.
The choreographer was a young ballet dancer in Balshoi, Yuriy Smekalov.
A German documentum film:
And if you want to know what think the Russians about Plush( Kostomarov etc.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBqGEGsRigc Plushy had not only ballet lessions but Mishin brought him a teacher, who teached Plushy how to make faces in perfromance.
Yes, I'm. I wonder..Did you bore his Tango in Sheffield 2012? The crowd and the European commentators went crazy for it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-7c-9GqE3Q the best exhibition in 2010!
That was an unfortunate decision
lala, I am sure they are all bored at his EC2012 performance. Only uber fans and layman in the crowd can see the beauty of that program.
Maybe the administrator can move this post to the Trash can and change to another title? I mean we can keep a post here to discuss the rest of Kurt's article and discuss about Plushenko in the Trash Can? (actually I am quite enjoy reading these discussions since they are funny, but now it is quite OT so...)
As for me - it didn't bore me, although there were programs that I liked better.
For me, it's not the best exhibition in 2010. It's good, but includes many of Plushenko's usual mooves. Besides, it's always easier to excite crowds with humorous and funny programs (as it is with something dynamic, dancy and sexy with intentional sexy moves - Evgeni tends to use them too ). When the public gives a standing ovation for a serious and complex program - that's another thing entirely. Of course, Plushenko has had those moments too.
Yaya, I don't care if the moderator will delete this post, but i would like to show some opinions. They aren't laymen:
Sonia Bianchetti Garbato about EC http://www.soniabianchetti.com/about_sonia.html
Plushenko, who placed second in the short program, gave a strong performance to "Tango de Roxanne", which included a quadruple toe-loop and seven triples, including two triple Axels. Evgeny's free program was the only flawless program of the event. The fact he was able to execute a quad was a kind of miracle because of the serious problems he is having with his knee. He will have to undergo surgery again in the next weeks.
In spite of this, the Czar was able to give an explosive performance, at great speed and full of passion. Evgeny was the only skater who really filled the ice, who was able to communicate all the time with the spectators in the arena, driving them crazy. Once again he proved to be a great champion. Welcome back, Evgeny! But a question comes to my mind: why do we have to rely on the comeback of an old champion to create such an atmosphere in the arena? Why are the new talented skaters not able to achieve this? Is there something wrong in the development of the sport?
The charmer of ice returned to his throne, not that he was ever gone for that matter. Evgeni Plushenko, the charismatic Russian with graceful aetherial movement succeeded once again to charm audiences and judges and climbed to the highest top of the podium at the European Figure Skating Championships held in Sheffield, England. He knew that all media lights would be turned on him due to his absence from major events last year. Everybody waited in the ... corner to record any slip. Eventually, he did not made them the favor.
Despite a knee injury, the Russian with blond hair - his trademark - slided on the ice with that characteristic ease of his which gives the illusion of ... convenience. For Plushenko figure skating is not just a sport, but his whole life...
The King of all comebacks
I said previously but I'll say it again. Holy Crap. Oh my goodness. The men's free programme was something else. In the big daddy of all shocking comebacks Evgeni Plushenko skated out of his skin and scored his best mark ever to win the European title for the seventh time. Seriously there aren't enough italics in the world for me to properly convey my surprise and awe at this situation. The man is unbelievable. His free skate to an amazing arrangement of 'el tango de Roxanne' was just fabulous, full of power, drama and attack and despite not having skated in a while he still looked close to swaggering, imperious best.
Όταν βγήκε στην παγοπίστα είδαμε ένα άλλο πατινάζ. Το πατινάζ του Plushenko είναι μακράν το καλύτερο. Θα έλεγα ότι είναι εκτός ανταγωνισμού. Λες και όλοι οι υπόλοιποι είναι γήινοι κι ο Plushenko από άλλο γαλαξία. Η συνολική βαθμολογία (261.23 με διαφορά 15 από τον δεύτερο δείχνει ακριβώς αυτό το χάσμα.
When he got on the ice we saw another figure skating. Plushenko's skating is the absolute best by far.I would say he is beyond any competition. It is like all the rest (skaters) are from earth and Plushenko is from another galaxy! His total score indicates exactly that chasm!
...Morozov is the most spread coach in figure skating. He coaches and choreographes for all 4 cathegories. Morozov sums up the Europeans for the Team Russia 2014.
TR: What was the main event of the Europeans?
NM: Pluschenko's gold. I'm overwhelmed with his skating! In the Lp he showed the level that no one could this season, not even the Canadian Patrick Chan. Many say Pluschenko's components were too high, but I would give him even higher marks! He has the charisma that a true champion must have....
"I am shocked form Plushenko's skating"
The expert of "Gazeta Ru" Nikolay Morozov about the results in the EC- 2012
The expert of "Gazeta Ru" Nikolay Morozov, observing the results of the European championships of figure skating, stated, that he was shocked form Evgeni Plushenko's performance in Sheffield. The famous coach and producer valued highly the artistry of the 7 times European champion.
The main event of the competition in Sheffield became the return of Evgeni Plushenko. I was simply shocked from his performance. How much masculine power he has!
In the free program Evgeni showed such a level, which in this season cannot show even Patrik Chan.
And the marks for the components are not heightened. I would have put even higher ones! The skating, which Plushenko shows, is a real man's skating. He has a charisma. That is why his skating is a felt like a skating, not just walking on the ice.
"The return of Plushenko – this is a remarkable event in the life of the world sport. I cried all the night from exaltation after his performance, because he went out winning over himself, his fear and pain, and showed all the world how a great sportsman of nowadays should behave and live. Plushenko leads not only our figure skating, but the world figure skating. I admire this impulse in him and bow down before Mishin's talent. All this calls forth exaltation and an enormous gratitude." – said Tarasova in a phone conversation.
The coach thinks, that the performance of Plushenko was prepared "very professionally and knowledgeably". "In the beginning of the free program the most important element was done – the quad, and all the rest were as if strung after it. Zhenya skated with an enormous joy and presented with this joy all the planet."
"I can imagine what a hard work it had been – to prepare Plushenko, to help him recover from the injury. I am very grateful to Alexey Mishin and to all the team – the choreographer, the coach for the general physical training, I am grateful, of course, to Zhenya too. I am grateful to his wife Jana, that she keeps this fire burning.
Nicky Slater, Eurosport commentator
Skating highlights? Plushenko, of course. Evgeni was not 'more of the same' for me, which is what I expected. There was less frenetic movement, more strength in his presence, sophistication in the choreography and maturity, plus the impressive technical. Great to see him back stronger than ever.
Sinead Kerr:
The main event this year – if the crowd was anything to go by – was the Men's. The arena was packed and the audience was excited, mainly, I think, because of the return of Olympic gold medallist and twice silver medallist, Evgeni Plushenko, who – as ever – didn't disappoint.
We have done many shows with Evgeni and there is no doubt that he is a star in the skating world. He has a presence which is hard to define and almost impossible to imitate – as his training partner, runner up Artur Gachinski, can attest to.
Artur skated cleanly and landed more quads than Evgeni, tried his best to skated like him and in some ways is more able in the transition steps. Yet, somehow, when he finished, he was met with good applause rather than the impromptu standing ovation and wild enthusiasm following Plushenko. Many people questioned Evgeni's comeback, but I think he proved here in Sheffield that he is still one of the best competitors ever in the sport and certainly a big draw. He is also a charmer, praising the organization and atmosphere of the event in his interview following the competition.
Thanks for posting the Tsiskaridze in Slow Motion vid. Spectacular! As far as balletic power and grace, Plush is no comparison to Tsiskaridze (altho' I concede Plush has equal power and flair in performance).
Re David Avdish, since I'm not familiar with him at all, I don't know how you can determine that I "don't like him." Thanks for the introduction, btw.
Re what you or someone else said before about Plush being more handsome than Alexander Godunov, yes I agree there's some truth to that. However, Godunov had a more rugged, sensual charisma and sexual appeal, at least for me.
Okay, so Plush is balletic God of ice for Russians. So be it. IMHO, Plush was clearly more balletic at a younger age on the ice, but any focus on the finer details of balletic grace is not apparent to me in his later skating career. As he matured, Plush's focus seems to have been more on training to perfect and maintain consistency on his jumps, no matter that he also took some ballet training and tried to incorporate dance elements/ themes in his skating. Pre-2010, Plush seemed more focused on footwork and did not engage his upper body as much. His use of his arms is apparent but seemingly more like an afterthought. It must be hard (even for a great ballet choreographer) to tell a skating God what they should be doing in order to finish off moves with more stretch and balletic grace.
Also, I do not like the hunching forward tendency when landing jumps that many males (including Plush) exhibited during a certain period. Much of that changed when Johnny Weir displayed his effortless jumping style and smooth upright landing carriage circa 2003 - 2008. Johnny had developed such great posture largely due to his years as a young equestrian athlete.
Okay, lala, re your #73 post:
OH BOY, I know Kurt Browning is not coming back to compete eligibly, but at this point in this thread, we need some Kurt quotes and Kurt vids going, don'tcha think? Besides, we must give Kurt some credit that his wife is a ballet dancer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyUCqUbkvpA Feelin' Good
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMMEaiMcsQU&feature=related I'm Yours
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZI_NVbaNYvU&feature=related (with quotes by S/P no less!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da8HEwnKBu8&feature=related -- He's so clever, so cool, so funny!
Lightning Crashes, indeed!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTstfCux2hc&feature=related (with his wife, Sonia)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL537okIJaE&feature=relmfu Kurt with his family at the dinner table
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAngxNlAQAY&feature=related Kurt's Serenade to Sonia -- with Nat King Cole
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RtL68KBBhY&feature=related Brick House, nuff said
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0Izl1CA1uA&feature=related Now that's flamenco on ice!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8F5l4_R_38 (Kurt with hair!) Singin' in the Rain -- Gene Kelly on Ice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXhe8DLDU58&feature=relmfu Kurt rockin' his facial expressions w/ first performance of Brick House
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yq8xtbo2Wiw&feature=related Kurt Steppin' Out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgYHsPAEZ2A Summertime, choreographed by Zhulin
Kurt is one of the best figure skaters to never win an Olympic medal. Like at Academy Awards, there should be an honorary award/ gold medal given to skaters like Kurt for their extraordinary accomplishments and contributions to the sport. Thank you, Kurt!
Thanks lala, there are some articles I missed from EC. I am not saying that expert won't find Plushenko good, they are (at least some of them are). I was just being sarcasm.
Re aftershocks, since we are not ending the discussion then I would just point out that Dai is an elegant skater but his style is not ballet style IMO. Plushenko on the other hand is classic Russian ballet style skater. IMO Dai's style is more closer to the contemporary dancing.
And thanks for all Kurt's links, he is a great entertainer and his 3A is gorgeous. The sing in the rain (with hair version) is really nice. He has really amazing steps. BTW, I think Plushenko once said that he likes Browning's steps (or the way to control the blade, I forgot his exact words).
But I would say that I like Plushenko's flamingo better. I hope someday he can do a full flamingo program instead of just half of it.
Way OT: The tap dancing from Kurt and the ballet quality in Plushenko lead me to think about the movie "white night", one of my favorite movies.
^^ I agree that Dai has a contemporary style of movement, but great jazz and modern dance (and especially in this era, all styles of dance) benefit by ballet training. Professional dancers today must have ballet training if they hope to be successful. There is a video on youtube with Dai speaking to a famous Japanese ballet dancer to gain advice; also Dai took dance (ballet?) lessons to prepare for his Rockin' Swan program, under Morosov.
Kurt is the epitome of "entertainer"!
Ah, I can definitely see Plush as a Flamingo http://anwo.com/store/flamingo_toy.html
-- (you mean flamenco, eh?)
I love your reference to White Nights! There should definitely be a remake staring Evgeni Plushenko and Kurt Browning!
Damn typo. Yes of course I am referring to flamenco. But I do not mind Plush portraying flamingo He performed crazy bird before, right? I do miss the days when he presented funny numbers in Gala. He can be a great entertainer if he wants, just saying.
As for ballet training, I am not saying that Dai or other skaters do not have ballet training. Just to say that Plush's style is different from them, he is more classic ballet style while contemporary dancing is a bit softer in moves (IMO).
I missed this post, so have to argue a bit with you. I agree that Plush's program after Nijinsky are not very ballet like except "moonlight". But the "Swan" is back to his classic ballet style in a bit softer version. It is safe to say that in your opinion he is lacking ballet training, which other people (e.g. me) is not necessarily agree with you. I think we just need to agree on disagree on this topic.
Again this is your opinion on jumps and your preference. For me, I like Plush's jumps because his jumps are powerful yet elegant. Weir's jumps are beautiful, which fit his smoothing style. While Plush's jumps fit his powerful skating. These are different styles, not that one is better than the other. So let us agree on disagree again
Why do you keep saying that it was Weir that made judges notice and start rewarding artistry? Buttle started getting recognition around the same time as Weir, but his programs were far more inventive and sophisticated..
I know, you'd think Weir skated in an entirely different era from Lambiel and Buttle, who are far more original, inventive, and more successful than Weir.
Can't believe it! Getting
See what you've done Kurt!
^^ Agree to disagree with you shine and museksk8r. I understand people are loath to consider that Johnny has had any positive impact whatsoever on the sport of figure skating.
In any case, I did not say that it was Weir who "made judges notice and start rewarding artistry." Those are your words, shine. After all, artistry in figure skating existed long before Johnny was born.
I said that when Johnny came along with his grace, smoothness, effortless jumps, upright posture on jump landings combined with exquisite ride-out, everyone took notice, including the judges. Plus, it just happens to be my opinion that the creative style and grace of skaters like Buttle and Lambiel also began to be more appreciated circa 2004 to present. Yes, Buttle had/ has great inventive programs, thanks to his collaboration with David Wilson and his own originality. Lambiel is a wonderful free spirit, and very voidy and inventive too. Both of them have contributed much to the sport and have obviously had greater success with the judges than Johnny ever had and likely ever will have.
Frankly, I would love to interview both Buttle and Lambiel and ask them to answer truthfully whether they were ever inspired by watching Johnny Weir skate. And it certainly doesn't mean that if they were ever inspired by Johnny that they lack creative inspiration, inventiveness and originality themselves.
Bejesus, I do declare: Within the sport of figure skating, it must be a sin to even think of complimenting Johnny Weir! That devilish, rebellious diva, albeit he's considered somewhat reformed and more accepted these days due to his success beyond the skating world.
Best wishes to ya Johnny artiste. ...
And, definitely we too can agree to disagree yaya and lala.
Yeah, Nan, I know, on second thought, NO!
Unfortunatly most of my posts here were and will be my opinions. But I will try, I am gonna claim that's the truth, the truth, the truth, the truth.....And hopefully after I repeat it thousands of times, it will finally become the truth.
And I like this idea too, claim to respect someone first, then it will be safe to downgrade him/her. Or downgrade someone first, then claim to be his or her fan, it will make the opinion looks more like the truth, right?
Oh, I agree with you, shine. If you take for instance Jeffrey's SP and Johnny's SP from the 2006 Olympics, the variety/diversity in Jeffrey's steps, turns and leans with multiple changes of direction is plain awesome. I'd dare to say Jeffrey was doing far more with his blade in his program than Johnny was and his solo jumps come out of nowhere. To me, Jeffrey's SP is way more exciting to watch even with the fall on the 3A than Johnny's clean but pretty simple program for the CoP standards.
Johnny had/has beautiful edge quality and beautiful flow in his skating, I don't understand why he never really pushed himself in approaching more complex choreographies. Mind you, I am not a Jeffrey Buttle uber, nor am I a Johnny Weir hater.
But since this is a Browning thread, here is one of my favorites from Kurt.
I suspect this kind of program that I would call a throw-back to the days of figures will never be as popular among fs viewers as those who bring the drama to the ice but I think it's quite enjoyable to see a skater doing totally amazing edgework for a change.
^^ Nice assessment, VarBar. No argument that Johnny has not always had similar "awesome" choreo to Buttle's, but I tend to prefer the simplicity and grace of Johnny's Swan to Buttle's Sing, Sing, Sing program. Yes indeed tho,' fabulous blade work by Buttle.
IMO, Johnny's sp at 2008 Worlds was fantastic and not a whit less better than Buttle's sp performance. The judges picked Buttle over Weir in that instance, and of course their choice and faith in Buttle was proved correct by Buttle outperforming everyone in his fp at 2008 Worlds.
So much variety among skaters and differences of opinion among fans re figure skating. As it is and ever shall be.
I've gotta ask, aftershocks, you've complained about how Chan ubers talk about their idol to the point where you say they've actually turned you off Chan's skating. I'm wondering what you perceive the difference is between how they talk about Chan and how you talk about Weir?
I know I'm days late to the game, but I just have to say, the way fans (over) react to things astonishes me again and again. Kurt chooses to single out Jeff Buttle (who by all accounts, *was* amazing at Japan Open - I know he was at Medal Winners Open) and Evgeni Plushenko to praise them in a Twitter post (that is limited to 140 characters), and instead of taking it as the compliment it is that he was blown away enough by Plushenko's jumping to comment about it, people take it as an insult that he only mentioned the jumping. Wtf?
BTW I know for a fact that Kurt thought that aside from Patrick, all the other guys in the Japan Open were "out of their minds good". But if you follow him on Twitter, you soon realize that he rarely tweets and only tweets about a subset of what you'd think he'd tweet about (failing to mention events he does, etc). When he writes things like this article, or does extensive interviews, you know he has a lot of deep thoughts and opinions about everything, but on Twitter, he barely skims the surface. Of course, people searching for "@EvgeniPlushenko" on Twitter have no idea of context and leap to their own conclusions based on their own preconceptions. Poor Kurt indeed.


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Watching the Watchdog: Notes From The Future of Journalism
Tim Knight | Posted 08.17.2012 | Canada
Read More: Wikileaks, Documents, Twitter, Democracy, Media, Journalism, Storytelling and the Anima Factor, Blogs, University, Social Media, Ethical Journalism, Internet, Citizen Journalists, News, Professional Journalists, Leaks, Networking, Watching the Watchdog, Traditional Journalism, Google, Canada News
These are my very own, real leaked documents about the fact that traditional, general-interest journalism is the crucial cornerstone of democracy and that social media threatens to destroy that cornerstone. They're written by students studying journalism. If you have any interest in Canadian journalism in our Canadian democracy you should read them.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
I just noticed yesterday bees checking out my swarm trap. There were about 10 bees flying in and out, flying around the sides and checking out the gaps.
I decided to put up another trap just in case my one hive is planning on swarming - that way there will be two choices for them - and hopefully one of my traps is better suited than anywhere else! Currently, the only thing in them is frames with undrawn foundation and some lemon grass oil.
Congratulations on your trap working. (And yeah, as others said, put in frames so they can make their comb on the frames.


text:
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text:
|GTA V Latest News | #GTAV | #GTAOnline
2013 CVG get an interview with Rockstar North
Grand Theft Auto V - General News | @ 11:20 AM MDT | By Ash_735
The guys over at CVG are back again with another one of their GTA 5 o'clock episodes but this time actually getting to interview one of the guys at Rockstar North, producer Imran Sarwar, and here he talks about some interesting stuff already known as well as things not previously mentioned, you can watch the video below:
If you want a brief summary, here's what we haven't heard before:
- Leave your car behind during a mission? Well after the mission is over, you can collect you car from the City Vehicle Impound for a small fee
- Vehicles now leak Petrol (Gasoline) when damaged and this can be used to your advantage
- Melee system has been overhauled, using a free flowing system when fighting groups of people
- Strength Stat affects how much damage and efficient the protagonists are when fighting hand to hand
- Plenty of Destructive Scenes, some happening early on in the game
- Use character switching to your advantage, you can place each protagonist at certain key points before you make your attack and the AI will control the other protagonists from where you placed them with what weapon you chose (example given, placing Michael at a vantage point with a Sniper Rifle and switching back and playing as Trevor as AI Michael will provide support from a distance)
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text:
STUDIO 2do B - SANTELMO
Спальные места2
Ванные комнаты1
Площадь25 м²
Этаж №
- Кухня
- Кондиционер
- Возможность проживания семьи/детей
- Джакузи
- Балкон/терраса
- Интернет
Краткое описание жилья
|Defensa, 1097 Buenos Aires, Аргентина
|Тип жилья
|ID жилья
This 2nd floor unit, located particularly on the back building, is quiet and very comfortable. and you can enjoy a patio terrace!
With capacity for 2 people, distributed in a divan bed for 2. Table and chairs for 2 persons, kitchen with service for 2. LCD TV, heat and cold air.
Located on the street corner Defence Plaza Dorrego, where every Sunday is carried out one of the most famous antiques fairs in the world! Many bars and restaurants surrounding the area.
* PICK UP TRANSFER FROM THE AIRPORT: Just for u$d 50 .- until 4 (Send us full details of your flight to book your airport transfer to the department. The driver is waiting with a yellow sign with your name and takes you to your new home in Buenos Aires)
* REGULAR BUENOS AIRES CITY TOURS: From ar$ 85.- per person
* TANGO SHOW DINNER: From u$d 127.- per person, included the pick up transfer
Правила ПроживанияThe building have only 4 apartments, and rest times should be respected.
Noisy parties and meetings are prohibited. Any situation that breaks the house rules will be grounds for immediate eviction, taking charge of economic or material damage caused.
|Заезд после
|Заселение до
|По договоренности
|Отъезд до
|Политика Отмены Брони
The apartment was clean, had wifi and other aminities and was comfortable for 2 people. It is in a central location, practically at the plaza in san telmo, where apart from the market we enjoyed a tango show on Sunday eve. At night (Fri, Sat, Sun) there was a lot of (partying) noise until 3-4am, and it disturbed our sleep, though I'm not a light sleeper. Otherwise there is no traffic or other noise. The last night in the place before a regular weekday was quiet.
As I had made a mistake in writing down the street number, we spent an hour at night with luggage trying to find it. Since the host's mobile number was, and still is, wrong on the site, we couldn't get hold of him either - there was a random person on the phone who naturally didn't know what is going on. I even tried to call the Wimdu call center, but they didn't answer either.
As Wimdu was a new service for me, and a few hundred dollars had already been charged from my account, the situation got us pretty nervous. By chance we found the place in the end, and everything ended well.
I recommend the place especially if you prefer central over quiet, and want easy and fast bus access to several places, like puerto madero or la boca.
Обзор других предложений от этого хозяина
Very very quiet place, absolutely no noise, as Mariano says it's like an oasis! 10mn walk from the Aerbusezeiza stop to the airport (av Begrano/Passeo Colon) close to several food shop and buses. Wifi sometimes weak. An old house with a nice patio but even if we felt secure, the street may look a little bit strange. Anyway i would recommend this place though a bit expensive considering the area.
the apartment was overall good but the most annoying wifi I have ever used, this is not a wifi apartment, you need to go out from the apartment to make it work. If the wifi had worked this would have been a four star apartment, overall good but not perfect.
pluses are:
+The host Elbino
+SIze and furnishing
minuses are:
-No fan so its hard to fry on the pan.
The flat is awesome, very well situated, nice furniture, very good bed. My only point of critique is that the wifi does not work in the flat and that you have to go into an extra room to have internet access.
The apartment is well situated in San Telmo, very central, a lot of places can be reached easily by a short walk. It was equipped with everything you need for cooking and it was also quiet.
What a great city! Our booking was managed prompty and efficiently by Mariano. He arranged a airport shuttle for us which was waiting for us at the airport. (A return shuttle was also arranged for us which arrived on time to take us to the airport). Zuni was there to meet us with our key as arranged when we arrived. The apartment was on the ground floor and was delightfully charming; just as it was advertised. We were thrilled to find a complimentary bottle of local wine in the apartment. The weather was colder than expected but this did not present a problem as the apartment has airconditioning that kept it warm and cosy but that could be switched off as required. The bed was very comfortable and the amenities more than adequate. The apartment is situated in the heart of the San Telmo Barrio and within walking distance of great cafes and restaurants. Great value for money and would definitely recommend this to those who are seeking comfortable, convenient accommodation at a good price!
Very nice little studio, well located in San Telmo and away from the noise from the street. Very clean, there is enough light coming from the patio next door. We recommend this place if you need your own little space in a nice area.
My family and I recently stayed at Mariano's loft in San Telmo. First, Mariano set up our airport transfer so we had no problems finding the loft. We were greeted by Zuni and shown around the loft and shared courtyard area. The loft was clean and had everything we needed. Any questions we had were promptly answered, usually within minutes!! I would definitely recommend staying at this loft or any other managed by Mariano or Zuni. They really made us feel at home...and, I was honestly sad to leave.
a good place - we recommend it
We very much enjoyed our stay at the apartment. The location was perfect, at the main plaza in San Telmo, where you have live mus and tango every night. And the Sunday market is right on the doorstep. The apartment is clean and spacious and offers everything you need. Great value for money. I highly recommend the place.
- Гарантировать качество жилья
- Проверить каждого принимающиего Вас хозяина по телефону
- Обеспечить безопасную оплату через шифрование на базе SSL


text:
Creativity, Crafts & Family
The Practice of Contemplative Photography
Seeing the World with Fresh EyesThis book teaches us how to fully connect with the visual richness of our ordinary, daily experience. Photography is not just a mechanical process; it requires learning how to see. As you develop your ability to look and see, you will open, more and more, to the natural inspiration of your surroundings. Filled with practical exercises, photographic assignments, and techniques for working with texture, light, and color, this book… Read More
Paperback$29.95+ Add to Bag


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The Story of the Sodastream Ad and the Superbowl: Right Action, Wrong Reason
Posted by Admin in Economic Activism for Palestine, World News & Events on 5th February, 2013 | 1 Comment
Before Super Bowl Sunday, buzz on the street was that the at-home carbonation product Sodastream super bowl ad was to be pulled from airing by CBS. Here's why, and what ended up happening.
Read More...


text: Very new here working with bees, have only one hive was hoping to expand to two or three this year. Not good at finding the queen, but I know there is a problem with my hive. Hive made it through the winter with lots of bees,looking very strong there, problem is, no brood in hive only a very small section of capped an uncapped drone brood. I either have a drone laying queen or a laying worker. A fellow beekeeper is going to give me a frame of brood to keep the hive going.Called about a queen,but she won't be coming until the lst of April. It was suggested to make up a new hive using this brood take my hive 20 feet away and shake off all bees.The bad queen or the laying worker would be left behind,then to install the new queen when she arrives, making sure to check for queen cells. Does this all sound about right? Would hate to lose my only hive.


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In the past when doing my underrated-overrated column each summer, I tended to focus on the most overrated player.
This time, I am highlighting the league's most underrated player.
See, I can see the good in players.
The most underrated player in the NFL is Denver nickel cornerback Chris Harris. Playing on a team with Champ Bailey can lead to getting targeted and overlooked. Yet Harris did a heck of a job in Denver. Forced into a starting role last season, he still slid inside in the slot on passing downs and was exceptional.
Harris never backed down against the best, and he now gets to spend his practices working against Wes Welker, which will only help him.
In Bailey, Harris and Tony Carter, the Broncos' corners did a nice job last season. Harris gets my vote as the league's most underrated player, beating out Lawrence Timmons of the Steelers.
So who's the most overrated player? It's not Tony Romo, if that's what you think. I might be in the minority, but I actually think Romo is underrated.
There, I said it.
Since perennial overrated candidate Troy Polamalu isn't rated that highly anymore, he isn't this year's most overrated. Nor is last year's winner, Ndamukong Suh. He played really well in the second half of the 2012 season.
This year's pick is Giants defensive end Justin Tuck. He spent more time doing Subway commercials than playing good football in 2012. He was a definite name-over-game player with just four sacks. There were times on tape where you wondered how he was ever a dominant pass rusher.
Now here are the most overrated and underrated players on all 32 teams.
|Arizona Cardinals
Overrated: DE Darnell Dockett. He has been one of my favorite players to watch, but he didn't play as well in 2012. Is he coming to the end? Or can he bounce back?
Underrated: DE Calais Campbell. He is starting to get some attention, but not enough. He is one of the best young 3-4 down players in the league. It's time he went to a Pro Bowl.
|Atlanta Falcons
Overrated: DE Osi Umenyiora. The game isn't as good as the name anymore. He needs to show that he can be an elite pass rusher again. Can he get double-digit sacks? The Falcons better hope so.
Underrated: LT Sam Baker. Too many analysts paid attention to right tackle Tyson Clabo in 2012, but Baker was the better player. After battling injuries for much of his career, he settled in to have a heck of a season.
|Baltimore Ravens
Overrated: RT Michael Oher. He played better when he moved to the right side in the playoff run, but his play in recent years has been a major concern.
Underrated: CB Corey Graham. They signed him to be a backup and special-teams player and he ended up being a key to their Super Bowl run.
|Buffalo Bills
Overrated: WR-KR Brad Smith. They paid him a lot of money with the idea he would help liven up the offense. He didn't do much.
Underrated: DT Kyle Williams. He should take a permanent hold of this spot every year. He doesn't get a lot of attention, but he's a heck of a player.
|Carolina Panthers
Overrated: RBs Jonathan Stewart and DeAngelo Williams. These guys are paid a ton and they don't do nearly enough for that money. Stewart played in only nine games last season and averaged 3.6 per carry. Williams ran for 737 yards and averaged 4.3 per carry. Average.
Underrated: QB Cam Newton. Yes, Newton. With all the attention the four young quarterbacks got last year, he was kind of the forgotten man. That's just stupid. He really came on in the second half of 2012. Newton will have a huge season in 2013.
|Chicago Bears
Overrated: LT Jermon Bushrod. Yes, I know they needed help. And he's better than what they had. But he had some issues last season in New Orleans. He's not as good as his contract, that's for sure.
Underrated: CB Tim Jennings. He isn't elite like some Bears fans would make you think, but he is coming off an impressive season. The question now is whether he can do it again.
|Cincinnati Bengals
Overrated: TE Jermaine Gresham. This former first-round pick has a ton of ability, but it just doesn't show up. Will it now that they've added
Underrated: CB Adam Jones. Yes, the guy formally known as Pacman. He had a heck of a season in 2012 as a nickel corner.
|Cleveland Browns
Overrated: OLB Paul Kruger. I know he's coming off a good season, but is he really an elite player like they paid him? I don't think so. Good, not great.
Underrated: S T.J. Ward. In his third season, this hard-hitting safety improved in all areas and could have easily been a Pro Bowl player.
|Dallas Cowboys
Overrated: WR Miles Austin. In 2009, he looked like a future star. In the years since, that hasn't been the case. He didn't even get to 1,000 yards last season.
Underrated: DE Jason Hatcher. He has developed into a nice 3-4 end for the Cowboys. He isn't an explosive pass rusher, but he gets the job done.
|Denver Broncos
Overrated: WR Wes Welker. I like his game a lot. He is a good player. But I see lists that have him ranked in the top 50 players in the league. He's not that. And where does he rank in terms of receivers on his own team?
Underrated: CB Chris Harris. I love the way he competes on a weekly basis. He edges out linebacker Wesley Woodyard.
|Detroit Lions
Overrated: TE Brandon Pettigrew. You look at him and you see big-play ability. So where is it? Even in a pass-first offense he averaged under 10 yards per catch.
Underrated: DT Nick Fairley. Playing next to Ndamukong Suh, he doesn't get the due he deserves. But he had an impressive 2012 season.
|Green Bay Packers
Overrated: TE Jermichael Finley. They say he's focused this offseason and looks better, but hasn't he become a big tease? The talent is there. He needs to do more.
Underrated: CB Sam Shields. He is a good man-cover player who has a chance to be a shutdown corner. He isn't big, and he isn't a great tackler, but he can cover.
|Houston Texans
Overrated: S Ed Reed. This was one of the easiest picks of them all. Watch his tape from 2012. And then tell me he's the same type of player he used to be. He's not.
Underrated: CB Kareem Jackson. He didn't play well in his first two seasons, but he came on last season as a cover player. He was much more consistent and did a much better job when asked to play on an island.
|Indianapolis Colts
Overrated: S LaRon Landry. I just don't see the attraction. He is a liability in coverage, even if he is an upgrade over what they had last season. He would have been great in the 1980s.
Underrated: LB Jerrell Freeman. This former CFL refugee has turned into a good pickup for the Colts. He is an active linebacker who can run a little.
|Jacksonville Jaguars
Overrated: TE Marcedes Lewis. He had one good year in 2010, but that's about it for this former first-round pick. He is a good blocker, but you don't draft tight ends in the first round to block.
Underrated: LT Eugene Monroe. He has developed into a top-tier tackle. Monroe is entering his contract year, so I expect he will be even better.
|Kansas City Chiefs
Overrated: WR Dwayne Bowe. Is he really elite? I just don't see it. He's good, not great. He has been held back by bad quarterback play, but that's just part of it. He needs to do more.
Underrated: G Jon Asamoah. He is a mauler in the run game and has improved in pass protection. He might be on his way to his first Pro Bowl in 2013.
|Miami Dolphins
Overrated: G Richie Incognito. He is a good run blocker, but struggles at times in pass protection. He went to the Pro Bowl last year. Should he have?
Underrated: S Reshad Jones. It's a shame he didn't go to the Pro Bowl last season. He was one of the better safeties in the AFC. It's time he gets his due.
|Minnesota Vikings
Overrated: OLB Chad Greenway. He gets paid a pretty penny and he didn't play to it in 2012. He had some issues in coverage where a lack of great speed showed up. He used to be a better cover linebacker.
Underrated: C John Sullivan. He does a good job in the middle of the Vikings' line and is a big reason Adrian Peterson ran for more than 2,000 yards with a bad knee.
|New England Patriots
Overrated: G Logan Mankins. He has battled injury issues the past two seasons, but that doesn't mean he can't be overrated. He is a good player at guard now, but not one of the league's best.
Underrated: C Ryan Wendell. He stepped in for veteran Dan Koppen and did a heck of a job in the middle of the Patriots' line. Playing center in New England's up-tempo offense takes a lot of smarts.
|New Orleans Saints
Overrated: RB Mark Ingram. What has he done? Where is the ability to make people miss? This is an easy pick.
Underrated: WR Marques Colston. All he does is put up huge numbers year after year and never gets to the Pro Bowl. He is tough, physical and makes the hard catches.
|New York Giants
Overrated: DE Justin Tuck. He was a good player a few years ago, but he had more sacks in 2010 (11½) than he did the past two seasons combined. At 30, it's too early for him to be done.
Underrated: TE Brandon Myers. They picked him up as a free agent from Oakland for nothing. He isn't a blocker, but he will really help in the passing game.
|New York Jets
Overrated: LB David Harris. He has been underrated for much of his career, but he didn't play very well in 2012. Can he bounce back?
Underrated: DE Muhammad Wilkerson. He has developed into a beast for the Jets' front seven. It's too bad hardly anybody noticed last season.
|Oakland Raiders
Overrated: CB Mike Jenkins. I expected a lot more from him in Dallas. He looked like a potential star early in his career, but he fizzled.
Underrated: DE Lamarr Houston. He is one of Oakland's few defensive players who had a good season in 2012. Now he has to build on it.
|Philadelphia Eagles
Overrated: WR DeSean Jackson. Yes, the ability is there. But where is the production? He had 45 catches last season, two for touchdowns. That's not good enough, even if he did play only 11 games.
Underrated: OG Evan Mathis. On a bad line in 2012, he did a lot of things right. He can move. He's tough. He can also pass protect. Mathis should have been in the Pro Bowl.
|Pittsburgh Steelers
Overrated: OLB LaMarr Woodley. He came to camp out of shape, battled injuries and didn't play like the team hoped he would. The talent is still there, but he needs a bounce-back season.
Underrated: ILB Lawrence Timmons. It's amazing how comfortable he looks inside with his ability to get to the football.
|St. Louis Rams
Overrated: TE Jared Cook. The Rams are paying a lot of money to a fifth-year tight end who has never had 50 catches in a season. I love the potential, but where is the production?
Underrated: DE William Hayes. He isn't a starter, but he gets a lot of time and makes a lot of plays. They re-signed him as a free agent for a reason.
|San Diego Chargers
Overrated: TE Antonio Gates. Hey, I loved his game for years. And he's a class act in the locker room. But he isn't the same player anymore, even if some still rank him among the league's best.
Underrated: ILB Donald Butler. He has emerged as a heck of an inside linebacker. He has a nose for the ball and could push for a Pro Bowl spot this season.
|San Francisco 49ers
Overrated: TE Vernon Davis. He is good, and he did some good things in the playoffs, but why do people think he ranks in the top three among tight ends when he didn't do enough in the regular season with 41 catches?
Underrated: OLB Ahmad Brooks. On a talent-laden group, he gets overlooked. That's a mistake. Some offensive coordinators I talked to raved about him.
|Seattle Seahawks
Overrated: DE Cliff Avril. He is coming off a so-so season for the Lions, which is why he didn't get the huge deal he thought he would get. I had him underrated on this list a year ago. How quickly things change.
Underrated: C Max Unger. He is quietly developing into a top-level center. I give him the edge on this team over tight end Zach Miller and defensive tackle Brandon Mebane.
|Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Overrated: S Dashon Goldson. He's a good, solid player, but he was exposed some in the postseason in coverage. The Bucs paid him a lot of money -- star money -- and he is not that.
Underrated: QB Josh Freeman. The guy sets franchise records for yards and touchdown passes and some want to get rid of him? Please.
|Tennessee Titans
Overrated: S Michael Griffin. He misses a ton of tackles and takes really poor angles to the football.
Underrated: DT Jurrell Casey. He was a guy I liked coming out of Southern California, but he is undersized. He makes up for it with his tenacity and quickness. He can be tough to block.
|Washington Redskins
Overrated: WR Pierre Garcon. He was hurt for some of his first season in Washington, but is he really worth all that money they paid him as a free agent?
Underrated: C Will Montgomery. This journeyman is coming off an impressive season in the middle of the Washington line. He's a big reason why Alfred Morris ran wild in 2012.


text:
One day a mischievous wizard came up with a mysterious invention called "Ghost Ink." When something is drawn using this ink, it would turn into a Ghost – and these trickster Ghosts would jump into pictures and books, pulling pranks, causing havoc around the world.
Our hero, Pac-Man, has taken his mighty Magic Pen – the only weapon effective to defeat these Ghosts, and locked all the Ghosts inside a book. But before he could turn the Ghosts back into the Ghost Ink, he was also captured within the book!
You must now take over Pac-Man's quest to defeat the mischievous Ghosts. Use the stylus to draw Pac-Man, control his movements to eat up all the Ghosts on the screen.
Travel from the lower to the upper screen to collect items and accumulate points.
Can you bring peace and quiet back to the world with the Magic Pen?
• Draw Pac-Man! Use the stylus to draw Pac-Man, and watch as he comes to life on-screen for a totally new gameplay experience.
• Pac-Man gets bigger! How big is your Pac-Man? When you encounter the big Ghost Boss, draw a bigger Pac-Man so you can eat him!
• Control his movements! Draw a wall, and Pac-Man will change direction; when you place the stylus on a moving Pac-Man, he stops. Maximize Pac-Man's movements and eat all the Ghosts!
• Shoot down the Ghosts! How's your aim? Once you clear the fourth stage, you will be able to draw arrows on the bottom screen that will shoot up to the upper screen, making Ghosts fall for you to eat.
• Collect Items! Scoot over to the Item Road on the upper screen and collect items that appear.


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A high school in the rich, preppy Jewish town of armonk with selfish students who expect their parent to buy the kids everything including their high school diploma. Friday and Saturday nights are spent partying. The parties pretty much consist of alcohol and weed and a whole of of spontaneous blowjobs. After that's over everyone crams for the 50 tests that they the next week. And that is pretty much Byram hills for you. It's academically tough and really excellent but the environment is bat shit crazy.
by Chillinglg October 12, 2013


text:
Talks to resolve Bend water project flap break off
Injunction still in place; court briefings likely next
BEND, Ore. - Talks aimed at resolving a lawsuit filed to block the city of Bend's $68 million surface water improvement project have broken off after just one session, meaning an injunction that halted the project stays in place pending future court sessions, both sides said Tuesday.
"We haven't come to any terms," said Paul Dewey, executive director of Central Oregon Landwatch, which sued the U.S. Forest Service over its granting of a permit to begin pipeline replacement work in the Tumalo Creek area..
Both parties say court restrictions prevent them from saying what happened behind closed doors, but the city's spokesman painted a slightly different picture of why the talks have been called off after just one mediation session.
"The city was fully prepared to attend (Friday's) meeting, but received word that it has been canceled," said Justin Finestone.
Dewey said he's not yet sure what will happen next, but likely briefings to the court on both sides' arguments about the project, stalled since a recent ruling granting the foes a preliminary injunction against the pipeline replacement work, just as it was about to begin.
Last Tuesday morning, large snow-covered pipe was seen leaving the Tumalo Falls area, the start of the nearly 10-mile project that a federal judge halted with a preliminary injunction the previous week.
LandWatch sued in September to overturn a Forest Service permit allowing the city to replace miles of aging pipeline and build a water intake facility at Bridge Creek, a tributary of Tumalo Creek. The ruling by U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken stopped all work.
"We don't believe that the Forest Service was correct in letting the city build this project on federal lands and that it violated federal laws," Dewey said.
Dewey said the city and his organization were voluntarily in talks, trying to find common ground. Both sides met Monday, Oct. 22 in a U.S. District Court in Eugene for the first day of those discussions.
"It was really just the first day of discussion," said Dewey. "You really can't say if there was any progress or any success involved."
It was a much different message from the city of Bend.
"Our city manager was there and said that there was progress made," said city spokesman Finestone. "There was a promising start, and they've scheduled another conference for Nov. 2 to continue those settlement discussions."
The city says it is trying to work with the LandWatch organization, but the delay could cost more money.
"There will be an extra cost incurred with the project. It's not inexpensive to do all this work and have to stop," said Finestone. "We don't have final numbers on that. We are working on quantifying ... what it's going to cost us. We should have that within about a week."
The trails and road to Tumalo Falls reopened last Saturday.


text:
Town Square
Discriminatory Scholarships Advertised by Palo Alto High School
Original post made by Parent, Palo Alto High School, on Apr 25, 2007
"African-American seniors. Criteria include: Min. 2.5 GPA, SAT or ACT and 300-400 word essay addressing "What significant contributions have you made to the community and how do you plan to make an impact in the local community during your college experience."
"Asian/Pacific Islander Seniors with priority given to those who self-identify themselves as lesbian, gay, bi-sexual or transgender and involved in the LGBT community."
"Bay Area Seniors of Japanese Ancestry or are legal Japanese residents of the U.S. and who have demonstrated academic interests in the study of fields significant to the relationship between the US- and Japan."
"Seniors wholly or partially of Filipino ancestry: Min. 3.5 GPA."
Comments (41)
a resident of Downtown North
on Apr 25, 2007 at 9:46 am
well, so what is it all about?
you extrcated some info. but what are you suggesting
is going on here? would like to know?
thanks for trying to bring attention, but what is it that
really troubles you in this case? please explain and be
specific. thanks, concerned...
a resident of Stanford
on Apr 25, 2007 at 9:50 am
Web Link
See link above for a very recent deja vu. We have been here already.
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Apr 25, 2007 at 12:05 pm
I don't think the high school should be involved in advertising scholarships, or anything for that matter, on the basis of race. First of all it's against the law since they are accepting federal funds. Second, it find it personally offensive that some think that advertising a scholarship that excludes kids of certain race or nationality on a public high school website is OK. If a private group wants to offer scholarships to kids of certain color or nationality, that's OK, just not on the public school website. Keep it in the private sector and out of the public schools.
a resident of Gunn High School
on Apr 25, 2007 at 1:06 pm
I don't see this as discriminatory. I see it as acknowledging and celebrating diversity.
The Gunn scholarships (probably the same as Paly's) single out men, women, Jews, hard of hearing, citizens, and kids of various heritages (Japanese, Italian, African, Mexican, etc.). There are scholarships available only to kids residing in Palo Alto/Stanford, and scholarships available to kids not residing in Palo Alto (must live in area served by PG&E). PAUSD is merely helping to educate kids/parents about the range of scholarships available and that have sent info to PAUSD to be shared with students.
There may not be something for everyone, but it does help students target their application efforts in directions where they may have a better chance.
a resident of Midtown
on Apr 25, 2007 at 1:47 pm
And besides, whitey can't jump and got no natural rhythm.
When I see rationalization like this I despair that so many just don't get it.
Back in the days of whites only there were all kinds of pious rationalles justifying the practices. I thought we had put racism to rest, but it just changed clothes.
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Apr 25, 2007 at 2:08 pm
Take It Easy - I see you point, but don't agree with it. I think it tries to justify racism with the rationale that the end justifies the means. I don't think morality or the law allows such a view. Given the statements in your post, it sounds like you would find a scholarship, "For White Kids Only", to be acceptable. I don't find any of this acceptable.
a resident of Gunn High School
on Apr 25, 2007 at 2:31 pm
One solution, Walter, would be for the schools to simply not post any info about scholarships, other than identify outside resources for where to find them.
To post only the "no preferences/no limitations" type of scholarships in effect aims them at the kids most likely to go to college anyway because they've had the advantages that helped them excell or someone to pay for tutors, test prep, educational consultants/groomers. Somehow that seems a little discriminatory in and off itself.
Would you also disallow college recruiters from men's or women's colleges? Hispanic or black colleges? Religious colleges? Colleges for the deaf or learning-disabled?
a resident of Ventura
on Apr 25, 2007 at 7:34 pm
Parent - you said this practice is illegal. What law is being broken? Are you strictly concerned about the law, or are you concerned about the students who don't fit any scholarship categories (including the ones you omitted)? Are you worried your student won't qualify for any scholarships?
But hey - I suppose I could adopt the view that schools shouldn't advertise these scholarships, if there will be other changes. After all, colleges themselves discriminate. So prepare for the following:
- public schools cannot allow recruiting visits, or provide other materials promoting colleges that discriminate based on gender, ethnicity, nationality, political affiliation or religion.
- public schools cannot allow recruiting visits, or provide materials promoting colleges that engage in the discriminatory practice of preferential admissions for "legacy" students or children of staff/faculty.
- public schools cannot allow recruiting visits, or provide materials promoting colleges that offer or facilitate scholarships based on any "identity" basis.
These all seem like reasonable interpretations of the views of "concerned parents" online here.
OR, here's an idea... Let's do everything we can to get as many students as possible into college with as much support as we can possibly find to help them succeed. It's particularly sad to think that much of this "color-blind" crowd shows a conservative streak, which you would think is consistent with the ideal of people helping themselves rather than rely on government. So if a concerned group of citizens wants to fund a scholarship to help people of similar backgrounds to meet worthwhile goals, let's applaud that initiative.
a resident of Midtown
on Apr 25, 2007 at 7:41 pm
There were always noble sounding excuses for Jim Crow.
a resident of Ventura
on Apr 25, 2007 at 8:19 pm
[Post removed by Palo Alto Online staff.]
a resident of Ventura
on Apr 25, 2007 at 10:41 pm
If anyone out there would like to respond to my ideas with something resembling intelligence... oh, never mind.
And after all, I said I could come over to the opposing point of view if we're really going to make it inclusive. Any takers? Have the courage of your convictions and say that public schools can't promote Christian colleges, or any Ivy League school with legacy policies.
a resident of Midtown
on Apr 26, 2007 at 6:53 am
Religion is choice. Race and sex are not. The rule is equal treatment under the law. Sorry that is above so many, but it is the law, rightly so.
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Apr 26, 2007 at 10:40 pm
Skeptic-Al - The Fourteenth Amendment prohibits government sponsored RACIAL discrimination. It's really that simple. Your allegation that I have a student who wants a scholarship who will somehow be prevented from applying for one is absurd and pure conjecture on your part. I deal in facts and you should do the same. Racial discrimination is protected under the Constitution and that's what we are talking about here. If you want to change the Constitution to include protections for some of the issues set forth in your post, then go for it, but don't try to invent law so that it supports your positions.
a resident of Ventura
on Apr 26, 2007 at 11:05 pm
Parent -
I'm sorry if my post seemed to have a tone that I didn't intend. For the record, I didn't allege anything about you - I asked a question, and hardly an absurd one.
Thanks for the lecture about the Constitution. I'm sorry I still don't see the violation if a school informs ALL students, indiscriminately, about ALL the scholarship information they can find from outside the school. I'd imagine that if there were legal issues such as those you perceive, then somewhere in the past few decades something would have happened to reflect your interpretation of the law. Frankly, I'd be surprised if your interpretation is held as the norm in any significant number of public schools. Not to say your interpretation is without merit.
I appreciate that you actually answered one of the questions I asked. So if you please, continue. Tell me how a school discriminates by providing all sorts of information to all students. If there were a pattern, like they're only helping students of color, then you'd have an issue, but I don't think that's what you're suggesting. And then, please, tell me why a school should provide any information, or worse yet, allow access to school recruiters who represent private colleges with discriminatory admissions practices.
a resident of Downtown North
on Apr 26, 2007 at 11:23 pm
It's really disgusting that people are wasting their time on these non-issues. The more money made available to future college students, the better. I don't care what gender, race, or whatever they are.
a resident of Midtown
on Apr 27, 2007 at 5:21 am
A republican student's group was punished recently for offering a $100 scholarship to white males. I guess there is nothing wrong with reserving the best seats in buses for Blacks, huh? Perhaps give them their own exclusive drinking fountains? I weep that such silliness survives with such twisted logic.
a resident of Southgate
on Apr 27, 2007 at 6:50 am
As a member of AARP, I got really excited to see so many scholarships available for Seniors! All right! How dearly I would love to continue my education and get a Ph.D.
But then I began to wonder if this offer was too good to be true. Alas! I conclude the definition of "senior" by the scholarship grantors is different from the definition commonly used in society to offer services or discounts to those of us beginning to count our age by decades.
And so I conclude, sadly, that high schools should not advertise any scholarships that are limited by age to oldsters or to youngsters. Therefore, I will forthwith surrender my AARP membership, since I do not want to violate or support any agency that violates any laws that discriminate on the basis of age.
a resident of Downtown North
on Apr 27, 2007 at 5:47 pm
Don't twist someone's generousity into a crusade regarding the civil rights plight of the 60's. There are enough problems in Palo Alto without creating more.
a resident of Ventura
on Apr 27, 2007 at 9:28 pm
Dear "Please" -
There's sometimes a debate to be had online here, in which people will read what others post, then respond to the post in a way that actually resembles an answer. Some people here will consider points of view other than their own, and even concede a point, correct themselves... you know - civilized conversation. Those are the people to whom you might respond and expect to get somewhere. And sometimes, responding to a non-sequitor just brings out another and stifles real conversation.
a resident of Ventura
on Apr 27, 2007 at 10:46 pm
Amazing, like in China, the Palo Alto Weekly staff in 2007 censors comments they do not like. Remarks they censored had NO vulgarity/curse words and did not make any personal attacks.
Spineless editing.
a resident of Ventura
on Apr 27, 2007 at 11:40 pm
Dear friend - maybe it was the combination of the content and the fact that you came up with a name that seems to be taking a personal swipe at another frequent poster on here. I wasn't offended personally (sort of like being insulted by a child - it doesn't mean anything), but I can see why the staff might want to discourage that approach.
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Apr 28, 2007 at 8:02 am
SkepticAl - I think the main concern is that Paly is allowing scholarships to be posted on a publicly funded site, which clearly restricts who can and cannot apply for certain scholarships based on the color of their skin. Race is a protected area under the Constitution. That is the point. Let me ask you a question. Do you find any of the following scholarship offerings to be appropriate for the Paly website:
"White-Caucasian seniors. Criteria include: Min. 2.5 GPA, SAT or ACT and 300-400 word essay addressing "What significant contributions have you made to the community and how do you plan to make an impact in the local community during your college experience."
"White/Caucasian Seniors with priority given to those who self-identify themselves as lesbian, gay, bi-sexual or transgender and involved in the LGBT community."
"Bay Area Seniors of White/Caucasian Ancestry or are legal Caucasian/American residents of the U.S. and who have demonstrated academic interests in the study of fields significant to the relationship between the US- and White/Caucasian ancestry."
"Seniors wholly or partially of White/Caucasian ancestry: Min. 3.5 GPA."
Are any of these OK by you? If not, why?
You point about discrimination by private colleges is answered by the fact that they are private and therefore not bound by the same principles. You can have private clubs and schools that operate as they like, so long as they do not take any public funds in the process.
a resident of Stanford
on Apr 28, 2007 at 8:12 am
Good post, Parent.
My "test" for racism is to substitute either the word white or black into sentences, depending on the context, to see how disgusting it is.
This illumintates nicely.
I specifically checked "none of the above" on my college scholarships applications, and did not submit a photo. I did all I could to get my money/admission on the basis of merit. And still I was accused by others of only making it because I was (fill in the blank).
I find these practices degrading. I resent them. They degrade the spirit of the applicant ( I can only get in because of something I have no control over) and the spirit of society ( some of us are worth more or less than others because of the color of skin).
Yuk. Lived through the 60s, and was part of the great idealism that supported this trend, only to feel the negative impact on myself. Now I oppose it. Human dignity requires being rewarded for actual output, not charity.
a resident of Stanford
on Apr 28, 2007 at 8:14 am
Or, being given money because you merit entrance into a college, but can't afford it. That works, too. Based on economic ability, which usually is the fault or credit of your parents, not you.
That is another thread, though.
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Apr 28, 2007 at 11:16 am
If you don't like it, instead of complaining here, complain to the school. If they turn a deaf ear, then file a complaint with OCR.
a resident of Ventura
on Apr 28, 2007 at 11:50 am
I appreciate the tenor of the responses above. The problem with "color-blind" advocacy is that it seems to negate past and present discrimination and imbalances. To the extent that it could be seen as validation of the status quo or protection of existing privilege, we can question why more white people than people of color seem to want to go that route. (Note: I said "more" - not all. I'm quite well aware that there are some prominent leaders and pundits of all backgrounds who advocate the "color-blind" ideal). But another way to look at it is that for generations we've had a system that favored certain people, and those imbalances still exist. The time for "color-blindness" might be when something more of a level playing field exists. Since it doesn't yet, I'm not offended that people are looking out for the interests of students with whom they identify, nor am in offended that a school would alert its students to opportunities to support education. To answer one question from above, I would be surprised, and maybe offended, to see a scholarship for white students. It's not a double standard on my part to look at different groups of people and expect that different histories and different situations would result in different outcomes and different needs. Having said that, I guess I'd have to go along with a school providing info about that scholarship - provided that the source isn't the KKK or some Aryan Nation group. Likewise, I wouldn't want the school to advertise a scholarship provided by a militant separatist ethnic group. I think the source of the money is relevant. But if local Latino buisness groups want to provide a scholarship to Latino students, no problem by me. I think their (hypothetical) organization and their aims probably fit well within community values.
I still think your argument about illegal discrimination by school still holds no water. The school is not discriminating. One could argue that by only advertising certain types of scholarships the school is effectively reducing opportunity for students from traditionally underrepresented groups.
I'm also waiting for your answers to my questions. If a Christian college wants to send a recruiter to visit with students who might be interested in applying, should the school politely decline the visit? How about military recruiters? On some college campuses there have been suggestions about barring them from job fairs because they do not comply with the equal opportunity provisions to which participating employers are held. And are you comfortable with discriminatory "legacy" admission policies which disproportionately favor white students and effectively reduce opportnities for non-white students?
a resident of Midtown
on Apr 28, 2007 at 6:25 pm
If discrimination is constitutionally wrong to disadvantage someone it is constitutionally wrong to advantage him.
a resident of Stanford
on Apr 28, 2007 at 7:19 pm
Walter answered you, Al. Any discrimination that is illegal one way, is illegal another.
I even think there shouldn't be scholarships "just" for girls or "just" for boys in high schools.
Any campus that wants to exclude any military organizations on the campus is free to do so..and free to not take the federal money it would mean losing.
Religions is interesting one. That is an "interest" in my book, therefore people have chosen it, or not, as an interest, like engineering or nursing. So, I don't see it as discriminatory. People can even "convert" if they wish to apply. Nothing stops them from making that choice.
But, I would be surprised if religious scholarships weren't actually offered only through the places of worship, to find those who have shown sincerity, so it is probably a moot point.
Anyone know of any scholarships offered on the basis of what religion someone is AT THE HIGH SCHOOL? I would be curious.
a resident of Ventura
on Apr 28, 2007 at 9:23 pm
Draw the Line -
I didn't realize anyone found Walter persuasive - he loves to drop in one-liners that seem clever but fail to address the issue.
This is clearly not an issue of a public school offering anyone an advantage in a discriminatory manner. I'm just flabbergasted that there are a few people here who can't grasp this. The school is only providing information, it is providing the same information to everyone, and unless someone has evidence to the contrary, the school is attempting to help all students by identifying or passing along all relevant information, even though not every piece of information relates to every student.
I'm not sure what you're talking about in terms of high school scholarships. Public schools do not charge students, so what kind of scholarships serve students at public high schools? Your comment about religious based scholarships also confuses me.
But I do like this one: "Religions is interesting one. That is an "interest" in my book, therefore people have chosen it, or not, as an interest, like engineering or nursing." It's nice that you have your own book, but you should know that THE book that matters here - the LAW - includes religion with gender, race, etc., as a class protected against discrimination.
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Apr 28, 2007 at 9:54 pm
I agree with SkepticAl that the schools are just passing along information. High schools generally keep on hand flyers and promotions from colleges, the military, and other training programs that may be of interest to graduating students. It's a way of helping students educate themselves about post-secondary opportunities, and access to information about scholarship opportunities is part of that self-education. The compendium of information available is rather like a newspaper or magazine full of advertising. Schools are allowed to pass along info about boy scouts, girl scouts, and various other public and private opportunities that students may choose to pursue.
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Apr 28, 2007 at 10:33 pm
SkepticAl - All of the scholarships listed in my post discriminate against someone, and it isn't necessarily a white student as you seem to assume. Scholarships that are currently adverstised on the Paly website clearly exclude everyone except a certain enumerated race and are consequently discriminating against students that just happen to be born something other than the required race. Race has attained a high level of protection under our laws and that protection is for all races, not just those perceived by some to need protection.
ItJustInformation - And do those flyers and promotions exclude Paly students on the basis of race?
Your other points are just not relevant to what's currently happening at the high school nor to the topic of this thread.
Following your logic in the previous post, I was surprised to read that you might be offended seeing a replicate of the current posts at the Paly website with the word "white" substituted in. I really don't follow your reasoning here at all. I personally would not like to see any scholarships advertised at the high school unless they are available to all. It's really that simple. I do think the school has an obligation to remain color blind. However, I don't think we will ever agree on this issue.
a resident of Ventura
on Apr 28, 2007 at 11:36 pm
Why would I think that a scholarship aimed at one group doesn't "discriminate" against all others? I get it - the Philipino Assoc. scholarship not only excludes white students but also black. Sheesh, between that and the Constitution remark above, you must think you're dealing with a child or something. I get it. Considering how far out your legal interpretations are... If you were right, or in the mainstream here, don't you think things would be different? I'm not sure how many high schools you have experience with, but what you're so up-in-arms about is a normal, natural process that schools go through to provide useful information to all students about all the opportunities out there. Not every opportunity is for every student, but from a legal standpoint, the school can hardly be considered discriminatory for equally telling everyone of every background everything -equally.
Why would I view a "white" scholarship differently? For the same reason that the existence of the NAACP doesn't bother me, but an equivalent organization for whites would. (Note, I'm not commenting one way or another regarding the NAACP's actions or positions - just using it as an example of a type of organization). As I said above, I do understand the reasoning and the appeal of a color-blind approach, but I think that such an approach serves the status quo and denies a whole host of inequalities in society. I don't mind that there's an effort to level the playing field, but I would view with skepticism an effort to further empower or advance the most empowered and advanced.
But Parent, I still don't have a clear answer from you. Would you then have the school turn around and deny access to recruiters whose schools discriminate?
a resident of Ventura
on Apr 28, 2007 at 11:52 pm
(sorry - one more thing)
Just for the record, if I were setting up a scholarship to serve a certain community or target population, I personally would avoid racical terms and criteria, and I would probably focus instead on a student's academic merit, financial need, family history (e.g., first to attend college). I might also try to target students interested in entering much needed helping professions - teacher, nurse, social worker.
Race and education are issues I deal with daily, and even in my extended family. On one side I have African American relatives, including high school and college students who need no help from anybody thank you very much, and I doubt they'd be interested in a scholarship that merely rewarded their pigmentation. On the other side of my extended family, I have some insight into the race-based disparities that this country has perpetuated to this day. The multi-generational lack of access to quality education, health care, and financial services, to name just a few issues, is undeniably related to the skin-color of the underserved, and so if someone might want to provide an extra boost to those individuals working hard to overcome such odds... that seems alright when I look at it that way. I think the scholarship issue is complicated, nuanced, but the legal question of whether or not the school can inform students is a non-issue.
a resident of Midtown
on Apr 29, 2007 at 12:38 pm
My 20 year membership in the NAACP ended when they left King and embraced Jackson. I also consider the Congressional Black Caucus illegal and foolish. You may be willing to accomodate a "Gentleman's Agreement" but I have seen how any such accomodation becomes the tool of the scoundrel. When something is as settled as are the laws against race discrimination I feel it is not necesary to reargue Dred Scot et al.
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 29, 2007 at 1:30 pm
I don't get this at all. What is all the discussion about. Is anyone being hurt by any of this? I doubt it. It is all basically trolling.
The thing would be different if all the information given about scholarships meant that there was one race, or one group in the community that was excluded from all the scholarships offered. If that was the case, then yes, that would be discriminatory. But, if there was at least one scholarship offered to fill each category, that means that every person at Paly was eligible for, then I don't think there is a problem. So if an African American, mixed race, financially deprived, gay young woman, (or any like group) can find a scholarship she qualifies for, then there is no problem. If however, someone like her is excluded from every scholarship advertised, then there is a problem.
a resident of Midtown
on Apr 29, 2007 at 4:04 pm
So, another parent, as long as the blacks have an equivalent drinking fountain, an equivalent school and an equivalent seat on the bus differentiation by race is O.K.? Separate but equal scholarships? Why did we bother with Brown vs Board of Education, anyway.
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Apr 29, 2007 at 7:42 pm
I agree with Walter. Many comments on this thread are really talking about a publicly funded high school website advertising separate but equal scholarship opportunities as if that is OK. There have been numerous Supreme Court decisions acknowledging the invidious effect of such a policy. In the field of public education the doctrine of separate but equal has no place.
SkepticAl - You keep coming back to denying access to recruiters who represent schools that discriminate. Of course I would have the same reaction if the high school were allowing recruiters to use public high school facilities in order to advertise racially discriminatory schools. Such racially discriminatory behavior should not be promoted by a publicly funded high school.
What I find most troubling about your post is your statement that "the existence of the NAACP doesn't bother me, but an equivalent organization for whites would". Being color blind is the only way that people of all different races and ethnicities are going to learn to respect each other and live peacefully. Discriminating against any person (including White/Caucasion) because of race is a palpable violation of the Fourtenth Amendment.
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Apr 29, 2007 at 7:52 pm
I do get your point. Yes, what you describe would indeed be wrong. However, I think you are comparing apples with oranges here. In an apples to apples comparison, any type of segregation is completely wrong. Likewise, I think quotas of any description would be wrong - a token member of any race in any institution would be just as wrong. We should get where we are going in life by ability, not by segregation or quotas. However, advertising what is available for a scholarship is completely different. As long as no group is left out for any reason then I see no harm.
In fact, I think it would be some kind of reverse discrimination if the alternative occurred. If a group had to be vetted out because of who they were aiming at, then that could also be called discrimination. I haven't checked, but I assume that the majority of scholarships offered are for one segment of the population and not everyone.
a resident of Ventura
on Apr 29, 2007 at 11:03 pm
Parent, You like to throw in that Fourteenth Ammendment stuff a lot. Quite the legal eagle! I trust you also know then that federal courts, from the Supreme Court down, have consistently ruled that the state, and therefore schools, have a legitimate interest in considering race in policies such as school boundaries. That's exactly why affirmative action (I'm not debating it here) is acceptable under the courts' interpretation of the Constitution. You don't have to like it, but stop throwing your legal interpretations out without knowing your stuff.
You also focus on race more than other forms of "discrimination." I trust that your concern for equality extends to other groups protected by law, so if you call Paly to demand (fruitless as it would be) that they stop advertising these scholarships, I trust you'll ask them to remove catalogs, take down posters, block web sites, and decline recruitment visits from:
Religious colleges such as Baylor, BYU, Yeshiva U.
Women's colleges such as Wellesley, Barnard, Mills, Mt. Holyoke
Galludet college for the deaf and hard of hearing
You should also have them block web sites that tell students how to find and apply for these scholarships. Why should they use school computers and school internet access for that? And what about the school spending money to buy books for the college center that advise students about these schools or these scholarships? That's your tax dollars funding discrimination, right? Once your efforts are underway, let us know how it goes.
a resident of Stanford
on Apr 30, 2007 at 2:56 pm
To Skeptical Al
Re: Walter- He is smart guy, and frankly usually quite relevant to the point. His way of communicating it bypasses some people, especially younger people, but that doesn't make him less right.
RE: What kind of scholarship you would set up- total agreement. Gets rid of a lot of the problem, and targets those who could most benefit.
Re: Religion being constitutionally protected against discrimination: I knew that when I wrote it, and forgot to say that though I believe no scholarships should be offered "for Lutherans only" or "for Jews only" through the public school, "my book" had less of a problem with it since religion is a choice, unlike the rest. But, would want consistent application of the law.
Re: Your quote "The school is only providing information, it is providing the same information to everyone, and unless someone has evidence to the contrary, the school is attempting to help all students by identifying or passing along all relevant information, even though not every piece of information relates to every student." Well, I believe that a school has also an obligation to uphold the values of the laws we put into place. I would strenuously object, for example, if the school just was "providing information" for a scholarship from the KKK for whites only.
Oh well, I'm done with this thread.
a resident of Ventura
on Apr 30, 2007 at 9:42 pm
Draw the Line -
At least we have several points of agreement. Your KKK example is something I mentioned above, too. All of the actual scholarships seem to come from organizations which, on face value at least, seem to advance causes consistent with community values. Some here might not like the race-based approach, but the ultimate goals - education and community development - are ones most of us buy in to.
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