text:
Town Square
Do you drive your kid to school?
Original post made by Parent, Palo Alto High School, on Aug 30, 2012
I am interested in having a good discussion about why those who drive their kids to school do so. Is it because you think they are safer? Is it because it is easier for you? Is it because there are no school buses? Is it because they tell you it is too far to walk, or bike? Is it because of heavy backpacks or musical instruments or sports equipment?
My kids have always walked in elementary school and used bikes for middle and high school. We have never let them think that being driven to school on a regular basis was ever an option. Sure they have complained at times, when it rained in particular, but they have learned it doesn't get us to change our minds. In return, they are independent, know their way around town, and end up being better drivers when they start learning.
My feeling is that thinking they might want to go by themselves when they get older isn't going to work. If they are used to you driving them everywhere, they will never expect anything else.
What are your views? Please state the age of your kids and the length of the school commute as well as your reasons. Thanks.
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Aug 30, 2012 at 5:38 pm
I drive my kids to school because I still remember the Palo Alto first grader who was biking to school with her dad and was killed by a Palo Alto High School driver.
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Aug 30, 2012 at 7:38 pm
This is going back a ways, but lots of times I had to drive my kids to/from high school because we don't live close to PALY and they had outrageously heavy backpacks (through their entire careers in this school district), very bad for their backs. Yes, they were required to have certain notebooks in certain styles, which were often heavy. If you take a lot of academic courses you are more likely to be required to carry all this stuff. Musical instruments are another awkward item. No, they can't all use school instruments - some have their own instruments because they are serious musicians outside of school. Now, PALY has modernized their previous horrible school schedule, so I imagine it is MUCH better. Back then the schedule was the same 7 periods each day!!!
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Aug 30, 2012 at 10:52 pm
There are any number of reasons why a parent may drive their child to school.
- A work schedule/commute that does not afford the parent enough time to walk their young child to school, walk home again, and then arrive at work on time.
- A parent who personally experienced a dangerous situation while walking to or from school as a child and who has anxiety about their child encountering such a situation. (Or a parent who never experienced such a situation personally, but still has concerns about traffic safety, predatory adults, animals on the loose, etc.)
- A family whose child has been overflowed to a school not in their neighborhood, or whose child attends a choice program at a school not in their neighborhood, or whose child is part of the Voluntary Transfer program.
In our case, our middle school child is in a special education program and has neither the executive function skills nor the maturity to negotiate the distance from our home to the school.
Please consider that there are possible scenarios outside the realm of your personal experience that may prompt a parent to drive their child to school, and try to stifle the holier than thou attitude.
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Aug 31, 2012 at 12:18 am
Some kids attend a school out of their attendance area so they live too far to bike. Although I biked from Loma Verde to Paly for 4 years in the 80's. There was less traffic then (safer) and everyone biked.
EPA kids can spend and hour on the bus or be driven to school by their parents in less time.
Palo Alto is unique city because so many students bike/walk. Most everywhere else, students are driven to school.
Time is also an issue. Depending on the school and home location, it can be faster to drive. Heavy musical instruments are also another reason to drive.
Depending on the school, I have driven my kids to their schools. And they are not spoiled. If you try too hard to NOT spoil children, they feel disrespected and you've got another issue (my parents, case in point). Sure, parents should set boundaries, but be flexible and kind too. Cracking the whip all the time makes them feel unhappy and unappreciated and does not build character. They already know from mere living that they cannot always get what they want. They need to feel that their parents are supportive of them instead of being their enemy and trying to control them.
a resident of Crescent Park
on Aug 31, 2012 at 9:51 am
"Depending on the school, I have driven my kids to their schools. And they are not spoiled. If you try too hard to NOT spoil children, they feel disrespected and you've got another issue (my parents, case in point). Sure, parents should set boundaries, but be flexible and kind too. Cracking the whip all the time makes them feel unhappy and unappreciated and does not build character. They already know from mere living that they cannot always get what they want. They need to feel that their parents are supportive of them instead of being their enemy and trying to control them."
THANK YOU for that reminder!
a resident of Midtown
on Aug 31, 2012 at 10:20 am
I had to drive my child to elementary school when he was little because our neighborhood school is actually quite far from our home. I was not physically fit enough to ride a bike with my child in a child seat on the back of my bike. Walking took too long for us to be able to do it, especially in the morning.
Then we started riding bikes to school together when he was older. In middle school he mostly rode his bike. And now, he rides his bike to his high school as well.
The point is that neighborhood schools are sometimes quite far away and there are few choices but drive the child to school.
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Aug 31, 2012 at 10:29 am
I drive my son to Paly because a) it is on my way to work and b) it is the one time he consistently talks to me about things. He is also one of the most independent kids I know and is happy to bike around town.
I agree with the above comments - kids need to feel their parents support them.
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Aug 31, 2012 at 2:14 pm
I drive my 8 year old to school because: 1) the route crosses a major street and is not well suited for him to ride or walk alone, and 2) there's not enough time weekday mornings to walk or bike with him, then walk or bike back, and get to work in a timely manner.
a resident of Crescent Park
on Aug 31, 2012 at 2:18 pm
We always drove our children to school when they were younger simply because walking them to school and back took too much of our time. As they grew older and were able to walk to school on their own or with friends, we encouraged it but didn't necessarily insist. It just naturally transitioned to them wanting to have more independence and go on their own. Getting a ride to school became the exception.
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Aug 31, 2012 at 3:05 pm
Driving my child to Paly 12 minutes in the am and 12 minutes in the pm adds up to 2 hours of guaranteed conversation I get to have with my teenager every week. It's the time he shares the most intimate details of his life, and I wouldn't trade that time for the world!
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Aug 31, 2012 at 4:25 pm
Except when they had projects that werent bikable and rainy days.
a resident of Barron Park
on Aug 31, 2012 at 8:49 pm
We drive our kids from Barron Park to Ohlone -- they are 5 and 7. Way too far, too many dangerous streets to cross/navigate, and we also have a 2 year old to drop off at daycare on the way. I leave for work at 7am and my husband has to drop all three kids off and be at work by 8:15-8:30. I pick the kids up at the Kids Club after school on my way home and then pick up the 2 year old. As much as we would LOVE to be able to bike to school -- we both walked and or biked to school as kids -- it is just not possible right now. Our kids WILL walk or bike to middle and high school.
a resident of Palo Alto Hills
on Aug 31, 2012 at 8:49 pm
Some great points already provide regarding making kids aware of how much we care about them (but without being overly controlling) or how the commute can be great conversation time. Also many schools are simply too far away to consider having the kids walk or bike. 2 of my kids are in elementary school 10+ minutes DRIVE away. Our middle-schooler bikes. But the younger kids also often bike to after-school activities that are closer. Safety can of course also be a concern. Speaking of which, how many parents out there have their kids take self-defense or martial arts classes?
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Aug 31, 2012 at 9:30 pm
We drive our kids to school for the following reasons.
1. We were in Spanish Immersion and it is geographically the furthest Elementary school in PA from our home.
2. SI continued at Jordan so kids both biked and got rides depending on morning moods and weather.
3. Attending HS at Paly, we are around 2.5 miles to school (Gunn is equal distance) but with sports after school, pick up is around 6pm.
Both my husband and I grew up in Palo Alto. I never got a ride to school, even in the rain. We also did not have the homework load that kids today have or all of the after school sports and club teams that are year round.
I end up driving home "friends" who live in walking distance of school when I pick up my kids after school(sports) and happy to do it. I work full time but make time to be a driver.
a resident of Charleston Gardens
on Aug 31, 2012 at 9:53 pm
And I also drive my kid to school, and I have one that walks (hmmm quite a mystery, huh?) but instead of explaining myself, I wonder if the original Parent that posted the question is satisfied yet by these answers, that she, in fact, doesn't own the right answer market.
And I also wonder if by any chance she was possibly actively involved in pushing the hugely detrimental striping changes on Arastradero? Which makes the lives of those of us who have a need to drive down that street daily or maybe even more than 2x per day, for whatever our reasons may be (frankly none of anyone elses's business) hugely more time consuming, traffic clogging, aggravating and more dangerous than it was before.
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Sep 1, 2012 at 7:56 am
Thank you for the comments and please keep them coming.
I hadn't heard the one about the time spent with actually talking with your child, but it does make sense. Similarly, I like driving a group of kids somewhere as listening to their conversation is another way of finding out what is going on in their lives.
We manage to support our kids in many ways without driving them to school. They have been driven on a few occasions, when they had stuff to take which couldn't be carried on a bike or a time when one had a leg injury, and they complained that it took longer by car!!
I rarely drive Arastradero and no had nothing to do with the striping, and don't like it. I don't live anywhere near and we are a Paly family.
My purpose for starting this was purely curiosity and I did not intend to offend. I hope others find it interesting too.
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Sep 1, 2012 at 9:35 am
Stop spoiling your kids by driving them to school. When I was in elementary school in P.A, the girl who was driven to school was nicknamed "rubberlegs" because she didn't walk or ride her bike like the rest of us. You may want to look into the cost of bus service and go that route. That came in handy for us in junior high and high school until we drove. Palo Alto has really changed since I grew up there, and that change is not in a positive direction. This is what gives Palo Alto a bad name...
a resident of Crescent Park
on Sep 1, 2012 at 10:50 am
How our kids get to school is a personal choice and really needs no explanation. The fact that our kids are going to school and show up everyday to learn, no matter how they got there, is really what matters.
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Sep 1, 2012 at 11:21 am
@Lonny, no one's asking you to explain yourself, just to contribute if you'd like to share your view.
Our kids have always walked or biked, elementary through high school. We've always been fairly close to the school, so it was easy that way. I like the self-reliance that getting to and from tends to promote. I still remember myself walking a half mile or so to school in kindergarten and feeling pretty good about it; I walked almost 2 miles in junior high and high school, that was a little long but it was fine too.
I saw a stat showing high growth in the number of kids biking to Gunn over the last decade. Some of it is enrollment growth, but some it was definitely increased use of bikes.
a resident of another community
on Sep 1, 2012 at 1:31 pm
We drive because we have to take two freeways to get to school in PA - with books, laptop, sports equipment, and instrument. We'd love to live in PA, but the real estate in your city is just too pricey. We ran the numbers and considered moving to PA and enrolling in your great public schools. It turned out to be much less expensive to live in Santa Clara and commute to private schools. At least we are spending a lot of money in your city to justify our use of your roads.
a resident of Barron Park
on Sep 1, 2012 at 3:05 pm
Another aspect is what happens in high school with sports practice and kids getting their license. Our kids walked then rode their bikes to elem and middle school. With high school came early morning sports practice, which meant driving to Redwood City before school - first we drove our daughter, then when she got her license she drove herself to practice & school. When our younger one started high school, they rode home together, and then the younger one continued driving to school when the older one graduated.
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Sep 1, 2012 at 4:26 pm
Thank you for the original poster for clarifying. The original post had a berating tone to it.
Another reason not mentioned by anyone is the bicycle crime in Palo Alto, which was not an issue when I grew up here in the 70's. If a bike is left after school while the student is engaged in their sport, there is a high possibility that the bike will either be stripped or stolen. I know this is true for Jordan and Paly, as I have heard stories and my own child's bike was tampered with. Bikes are even tampered with DURING school hours (even with the locked cage) at Jordan. Therefore, during her sport season, I drive her to school. And everyone knows about bikes being stolen in downtown Palo Alto, from backyards, etc. even when they are locked.
I can't figure out how "Carpooler" is allowed into PAUSD unless the parent works for PAUSD.
Kristina: Yes, Palo Alto has really changed, but it's due to crime, more homework, more extracurriculars necessary to succeed or state on college applications. It would be ideal if our children could grow up in the more relaxed environment of the 1970s when we skateboarded or biked all over town, or took the bus alone when we were 11-years old to go shopping at the mall, and returned home at nightfall, with no worries of kidnappings or homework. Or when SAT's and GPAs could offset each other rather than both being top scores. It's no longer a Leave It to Beaver World. And as parents, we have to be sure to balance their schedules so they have some fun and down time and are not too stressed. It was much easier being a parent in the good ole days - just send 'em outside after school and they kept themselves busy!
a resident of Palo Verde
on Sep 1, 2012 at 5:20 pm
Carpooler said commutes to private schools in PA, not PAUSD. A good decision if one can't afford the real estate.
a resident of Community Center
on Sep 1, 2012 at 11:05 pm
What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If you require your kids to bike to school, I assume when you need to go to their school you hop on your bike? Double standard alert!!!
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 2, 2012 at 12:07 am
Well, they say before you judge another person, you should walk a mile in their shoes. How about you take a bike, with a young child, and try the route below at the suggested time.
We walked every day of elementary school. No complaints, everyone loved it. Would LOVE to be able to bike, but we drive to middle school now. Middle school is the most unsafe route I could imagine possible, with no bike path at all for most of it, crossing two major streets and the tracks. There isn't room for the bikes on those streets. If you want to try it, how about you take your bike with your 7-year-old, starting at about, oh, 7:50, you make your way up Maybelle from, oh, just before Juana Briones, cross El Camino and make your way up El Camino Way. Choose which ever path you want over to East Meadow and cross the railroad tracks and Alma. Keep going. Now do that in the reverse when it's about 3:10pm. Notice how the main bike traffic goes in the other direction, so there is no safety in numbers? Do that for a week, and if I haven't seen your name in the papers, you can try some of the even less safe alternate routes, like going the long way around up Amaranta, right on Los Robles, and crossing El Camino onto El Camino way from the other direction (note how the bike path AND space simply disappear there, too), then left onto East Meadow.
If you are lucky enough never to encounter a distracted driver in a hurry to get by all the school kids to get to work, report back about how you think we could make space for the bikes along those routes, because I hate feeling like the only safe thing to do is drive.
Also, was nearly run over by a Mercedes convertible running a red light with the driver yakking about on his cell phone a few years ago.
We'll be back to walking in high school, the route is safer.
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Sep 2, 2012 at 7:12 am
My kids take bus. I live in Korea most of the year while they go to Palo Alto school. They no like walk, so take bus.
a resident of Crescent Park
on Sep 2, 2012 at 8:50 am
This is why I drive my child. They don't realize the rules apply to them, too,
Web Link
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 2, 2012 at 8:55 am
I live in Midtown and my daughter can easily (though complaining) ride her bike to school. But it is somewhat on my way to work, and I thoroughly enjoy our morning conversations. We car pool with a few other kids, so I get to know her friends better and here what they all think of their classes, their teachers, their friends, who's going to the dances, who's going out with who. It's amazing what you can learn in 15 minutes. I wouldn't have it any other way.
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Sep 2, 2012 at 9:21 am
I am sorry if my original question seemed berating. I probably posted too quick having just read a berating comment in another thread about how all kids were driven to school and in another place when this discussion was taking place, someone complained about being off topic.
I thought it was a good idea to have this discussion. If you think we should mind our own business, that's fine by me. This is a great place to be anonymous so I don't think anyone's privacy is being invaded.
As a school kid, I was driven to school most of the time because my bus ride was over an hour and it was easy enough for my father to drive me on his way to work which was about 15 minute drive. But I almost always came home by bus. I did occasionally ride my bike but I didn't like it - too hilly. My spouse always used the bus.
I gave our reasons why we make our kids use bikes. I know plenty of parents have good reasons why they drive and I wanted to give them a place to explain their reasons. A few have given me reasons I hadn't heard before.
It is easy to appear judgmental. I don't think I am a poor parent because I don't support my kids by not driving them everywhere and I don't think they feel any worse of me. In fact, I think they like to be seen as independent and are embarrassed on the times they are seen with us around town by their friends, eating out, shopping, at a movie, etc. I think they enjoy their indepence.
We don't have school buses around here and we don't all have a suitable bus or shuttle service to get our kids to school. It could be said that our kids are getting more exercise when they bike or walk and more ready to start learning than when they arrive at school straight out of a car, eating their breakfast and still wiping the sleep out of their eyes. Alternatively, it could be said that they arrive at school having had 15 minutes quality time with a parent and feel loved as a result.
There are lots of ways of looking at it. We all make the decisions we feel best for our family.
If Palo Alto isn't providing a means to get the kids to school then they shouldn't complain at the way we do it instead.
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Sep 2, 2012 at 9:51 am
By the way, the above comment about arriving eating breakfast and wiping the sleep out of their eyes was made at an elementary back to school night by a teacher requesting that those being driven arrive 15 minutes early to allow the kids to play and get rid of the "wriggles" so that they entered the classroom with their "blood pumping and ready to learn".
a resident of Ventura
on Sep 2, 2012 at 12:26 pm
We carpooled with neighbors when our kids went to Ohlone. Then they started biking to Terman and Gunn. If it was really pouring rain I'd offer a ride but we had to leave very early to avoid the traffic jam.
Both parents bike to work (one to downtown PA, the other bikes to CalTrain).
I encourage bike commuting if possible. Some folks can only manage once or twice a month but it is a great way to squeeze in exercise and arrive more relaxed.
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 2, 2012 at 12:44 pm
Riding bicycles is inherently dangerous, especially when automobiles and bicycles mix together. I always cringe when I see young bicyclists trying to maintain a straight path in a bike lane, while traffic passes them by.
If you want your kids to be safe, best to drive them to school.
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Sep 2, 2012 at 2:28 pm
As a student:
In elementary school, my father accompanied me to the school ~3 blocks away. I would either scooter or walk. I would walk (or scooter) home without a family member, but along the same path that every other student would follow.
In middle school, I biked 1.3 miles (or so says Google Maps) to school
In high school, where I am now, I typically bike to school (distance: ~2.5 miles). Legally I can drive myself, but do not do so on a regular basis because I see no point (There is always a huge back up at the light to make a left on Embarcadero. As a biker, I often pass cars caught in the back up). My parents only drove me when a) It was pouring rain or expected to pour rain, 2) I had a project or large object that needed to be brought to school or 3) I was running extraordinarily late and, because most of the back up had diminished, it was faster to take a car.
Another note: A fair number of students at Paly take the Shuttle. Occasionally I use it myself, primarily when I have been driven to school but have no ride home.
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Sep 2, 2012 at 3:20 pm
@safer bike routes - that route doesn't sound great. This isn't a criticism, but your route does start basically around the corner from Terman. I'm sure you are going to JLS for a good reason but it is going to be a tougher cross-town bike route if you aren't going to the nearest school.
a resident of Old Palo Alto
on Sep 2, 2012 at 3:32 pm
I actually used to bike because it is much faster than going through the work and school traffic on Embarcadero, Churchill, or Middlefield. Of course, this is possible because of the short distance (1mi) from the three schools I attended. What bothers me is how the car becomes a necessity, even for students who are only a few blocks away, and yes we do see some seniors go in their cars to school and back for just a few blocks. If you have to go to work afterwards, that is fine. Of course, a full evaluation of how people get to school would be necessary, but it is really good to see that biking is such a popular option and the schools are supporting it by installing new racks.
a resident of Downtown North
on Sep 2, 2012 at 4:23 pm
To dangerous with some of the drivers on the road.
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 2, 2012 at 5:03 pm
One of the reasons that bicycling appears to be faster in town, especially in heavy traffic, is that many bicyclists fail to obey the common traffic rules. So many bicyclists fail to come to a stop at stop signs, and this is extremely dangerous.
Cars and bikes simply do not mix well.
For the safety of our kids, drive them to school.
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Sep 2, 2012 at 5:08 pm
@Jamie - heard your point of view, but don't agree. You are welcome to drive your kids - I'll let mine bike.
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 2, 2012 at 5:18 pm
> heard your point of view, but don't agree
@Me, what part do you disagree with? That bikes and cars don't mix, and mixing them is dangerous for bicyclists? Or that you don't care about the safety of your kids?
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 2, 2012 at 5:28 pm
Our English and German au pairs drove our kids to school until they were old enough to drive themselves.
With all the safety concerns, after school activities etc- particularly in the fall and winter when it is dark driving to and from school is much safer.
a resident of Palo Verde
on Sep 2, 2012 at 7:19 pm
We bike, walk or scooter to school most days with our kids. It has become more feasible now they are older and we are fortunate to live just a few blocks away. While we do it for the health and environmental benefits and to reduce traffic for all, we often fear for our lives due to drivers rushing off to work after dropping their kids at school, ostensibly because it is "too dangerous" for them to walk or ride.
Parents are some of the scariest drivers to those of us trying to reduce the traffic loads for all. Please watch out for ALL kids, especially once yours are safely deposited at the school.
a resident of Adobe-Meadow
on Sep 2, 2012 at 8:02 pm
@jamie - I disagree that the risks you point out mean that everyone should drive their kids, which is what you seemed to be saying ("For the safety of our kids, drive them to school"). We all have to decide for ourselves what risks are acceptable, including the risk of teaching our children that the world is such a scary and dangerous place they must constantly take precautions like driving to school.
For instance, when our kids were much smaller my spouse subscribed to the "what about kids getting kidnapped on the way to school" concern that seems to go around. So we looked into it and could find no instances of kids getting kidnapped in our community (at that time) for the last many years. So we decided that, while it was in theory possible that our kid might get kidnapped, that we would rather teach her how to be aware of situations and deal with them, and get the pleasure, benefit,and experience of getting to school on her own. It worked out and she is now a healthy high school graduate.
So, like I said, you are welcome to drive your kids - I'll let mine bike.
a resident of Palo Verde
on Sep 2, 2012 at 8:13 pm
As you drive away from the school having deposited your own children safely, I hope you use as much care with respect to the precious children of others who are walking and biking there.
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 3, 2012 at 10:50 am
@Me. Yes, you are stating the obvious about the proximity to Terman, and yes, it's not our first choice to do this way.
@original poster: yes, you did sound judgmental but I took you at your word that you are lookimg for solutions. My suggestion was a genuine one, though it wasn't genuine that you take your child, the route is far too dangerous. However, what I would suggest is that you try it and consider whether a few "biking buses" along that route in both directions between Terman and JLS would be possible ( esp inthe other direction for the Gunn kids, who probably only need it in that direction to donald, bc they then go right to Georgia). Biking buses are basically organized regularly scheduled packs of riders. An electric vehicle of some sort should lead, something kids could put their instruments and heavy packs on. The rear should be someting like a motrcycle cop that ensuing cars will give space. The bicycle buses wont slow traffic because it's already slow on these routes. Added bonus, the kids will learn to STOP FOR STOP SIGNS on their bikes. And cars will learn the bike is a vehicle that deserves a turn when stopped. Anyone can join the bicycle bus on the way when moving, but there should be reguar stops for loading and unloading the heavy stuff at designated places like school. Walking buses are another option that solve a lot of the concerns. I suggest ths route s a busy enough and dangerous enough on to demonstrate the vlue of the solution.
a resident of another community
on Sep 3, 2012 at 3:48 pm
I think that one policeman standing on Arastadero area during the morning rush hour to Gunn, stopping and fining few high school kids who totally ignore stop signs in the area, would do the community a big service. The high school kids can learn, fast.
An accident is waiting to happen, unfortunately - it will not be the fault of the drivers who can not see the bikes
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 3, 2012 at 5:30 pm
The police have stood at donald and maybell many times and handed out tix. Has absolutely no impact on their behavior as a group. Many go right through even when people incl small kids are in the crosswalk. It does however make the individual kids feel desperate for being singled out - sometimes they cry, etc. i'm not saying it's okay for them to break the law, but let's remember the spirit of the law, and what great kids we have in this community - there must be a better way. A bicycle bus, by the way, would make stpooing together a habit.... Esp if a cop is taking up the rear...
a resident of another community
on Sep 3, 2012 at 8:09 pm
Safer bike route - I have seen many situations where kids in lower income areas were stopped by police, did not argue. These situations, far away, seemed to me to be by far less dangerous than the morning commute around Gunn. Some of those (far away), seemed just like a good way of collecting $. The spirit of the law was of no interest, there. I'm wondering Palo Alto kids are being taught that "annoying laws" (stopping @stop sign, for example) are made for others?
An accident is waiting to happen, unfortunately - it will not be the fault of the drivers who can not see the bikes.
a resident of Leland Manor/Garland Drive
on Sep 3, 2012 at 8:15 pm
8 yr. old can't cross Oregon alone so we drive or bike together.
a resident of South of Midtown
on Sep 3, 2012 at 9:47 pm
The way you worded your question, I can see that you are not interested in a discussion. You have a solid opinion and sit in judgement of anyone who drives their kids. I'm not falling for it.
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 3, 2012 at 10:04 pm
So, because you witnessed police somewhere else ticketing people in what seemed a good way of collecting $$, this is a good reason to single out a few kids around here like a sledge hammer for punishment that does apparently nothing at all to solve the problem of kids running stop signs on their bikes? It seems to me you have a lot of baggage wrapped up in your opinions and are not thinking objectively about the GOAL, which is not to collect extra $$ through tickets but to teach the kids to stop running the signs. The ticketing of the kids went on all last year, didn't make a dent. Maybe it's time to do something else if, as you say, you care about the safety of the kids.
a resident of another community
on Sep 3, 2012 at 10:27 pm
safer bike route - I'm sorry, I was not aware that ticketing was going on last year, obviously did not make any difference - morning commute wise. Seems to me to be a fascinating question- why ticketing did not make any difference? Why are the kids ignoring the law? What can make Palo Alto kids obey a trivial law - stopping @stop sign?
An accident is waiting to happen, unfortunately - it will not be the fault of the drivers who can not see the bikes.
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Sep 3, 2012 at 11:09 pm
@teach the kids...
Perhaps if adult drivers obeyed the laws for cars, kids might obey bike laws. I think drivers are not modeling good behavior for kids.
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Sep 4, 2012 at 7:38 am
Interesting how this has developed.
It is crossing guards who teach our kids to ignore stop signs. They wave people on bikes through their own stop signs and also those at the intersections they monitor. They start the trend of teaching kids not to stop so of course they don't stop where there are no crossing guards too. If crossing guards made the bikes stop I am sure it would have a knock on effect.
Sorry if you still think I have an agenda. I have given my point of view and I think it is fair that everyone should be able to give their point of view here. Noneed to trust or fear me.
a resident of Greater Miranda
on Sep 4, 2012 at 7:46 am
My son rides his bike to Paly; it is far too far to walk (measured 5 miles...). I am considering forbidding it. He has already had 2 accidental meetings with cars this year alone...one when a parked car opened his door, one when a driver stopped and my son thought he was stopping for him, but then the driver went to turn right just as my son was starting to cross the street and nicked my son's bike. Both times my son ended up on the street, once with a major leg road rash.
The drivers are really scaring me!
a resident of Palo Verde
on Sep 4, 2012 at 7:50 am
Whenever I'm driving and there is a police officer at an intersection, they will wave me through or stop traffic independent of the signage or signal. I was taught in drivers ed that the officer's signal takes precedence. I don't see the connection between being waved through a red light by an official and running red lights routinely.
a resident of Palo Alto High School
on Sep 4, 2012 at 11:03 am
Is there any reason to stop at a stop sign if no one is around? Quit being so rigid. You want students to bike, but only on your ground rules. Some people just love to have the last word.
And the GOOD crossing guards are the ones who put the children first and have the cars stopped right before the bicyclist hits the intesection so they can continue biking because the goal is to get the kids to school on time. Whoever thinks the crossing guards are teaching the students to ignore stop signs needs to realize that kids know the definition of a stop sign and if they see cars around, they will stop.
Someone here needs to start respecting the intelligence of children more. They are not complete idiots. If they are continually controlled and told what to do without flexibility, they will not learn to use their own minds and make their own decisions because the parent has always controlled their lives. Intelligent people know that there are instances when rules don't need to be followed. If one lives by the book all the time, creativity is stifled. The truly successful know when to bend the rules. The people who love to control others are never happy because they are always thinking about how everyone else is doing things incorrectly.
If there were no crossing guards, guaranteed the students would be waiting long periods to cross in the crosswalks (when legally, a car is supposed to stop if a pedestrian or biker is waiting in the crosswalk).
And I agree with the poster who commented that parents who force their children to bike all the time should also bike instead of driving a car all the time as if they are too high to get off their royal throne and cycle with the students.
a resident of Evergreen Park
on Sep 4, 2012 at 12:07 pm
We live on the other side of El Camino from our elementary school. My kids are not allowed to bike to their school, which is about a mile away, because the intersection is dangerous as it the road they'd have to ride on. It's too narrow and many children wobble into traffic and it's a heavily traveled road.
Much of the time (50%+) our last kid there walks in the mornings, but only when it's convenient for us to walk or walk our bikes with her. If I'm out in the car running errands or am working at home and don't have 45 minutes to go get her, I drive to pick her up. We have also been harassed by kids on bikes on the sidewalk when we walk, and I don't feel comfortable with that. If I had a lot of free time, I'd walk to get her more, but I don't. The older kids ride their bikes 99% of the time to the middle and high schools, so the theory that older kids depend on being driven is hogwash in our home. We only drive them if it's lightening/pouring or if they have a big project to carry.
a resident of Duveneck/St. Francis
on Sep 4, 2012 at 1:19 pm
To "Mom" that asked if there was a good reason to stop at a stop sign while on a bike if no one is there, well it is the law, but most bikes don't obey it. It's really not a big deal to me except that way too many kids (and adults) don't stop at stop signs even when there is a car. (see the above post of the Paly sophomore hit by a car when he blew past a stop sign on Bryant).
Our kids are smart - they should at least slow down at stop signs and stop if there is a car. Bikes do NOT have the right of way.
a resident of Barron Park
on Sep 4, 2012 at 4:38 pm
To Mom from Palo Alto Community. Sorry, but your disregard for safety measures is a good part of the problem. I watch children bicycle through stop sighs every day, without even a glance in either cross traffic direction. I watch parents ride with or pull children through red lights. Small children are riding on the back or front of their parents bike learning that you follow rules of the road when it suits you.
Bike riders are developing worse habits because "cars should watch out for them", some drivers are driving more aggressively because they are "sick of bikers ignoring the rules". We need to ALL change our habits and open our eyes.
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 4, 2012 at 10:51 pm
We live next to ohlone but must get to palo verde over a mile away. All of last year when my daughter was in kindergarten we rode our bikes. However I am now back to working full time. She goes to after school care at the jcc and they can't pick her bike up. Also it's too far for me to walk her and get home in time for work. Because of the lottery school system we can't go to the closest school to our house and so end up driving except for the one week day I am off when we bike both ways.
I honestly find the implied judgement in your comment offensive. Driving isn't because parents are indulging their kids, often it's for practical reasons that you may not have considered when wording your comment/question. Biking down Amarillo Avenue was often nerve wracking due to the high volume of traffic because ohlone is a lottery school and therefore a huge percentage of parents drive. Also your assumption that people are close enough to walk doesn't take into account that many parents have to travel further due to lottery schools and immersion schools.
a resident of another community
on Sep 5, 2012 at 1:11 am
Well said My 2 Cents. I will add that bike riding is a great way for kids to learn the rules of the road. So one day, if they do decide to become drivers, they will have some of the good, common sense safety-first skills of driving in place. Young riders could even go to the DMV website and read through the right of way rules for bicycles and pedestrians. Of course, drivers are required to know these rules. Ideally, all people who use the roads should know them, so that everyone knows what to do at intersections, crosswalks, merging bike lanes, etc.
a resident of Midtown
on Sep 8, 2012 at 9:33 pm
I drive my kids for safety. I still see too many teenage and adult drivers talking on their cell phones or texting while driving. If you see this, tell them to stop!
Also alot of out of town people going to work in Palo Alto are clueless that there are kids around.


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Insult thought of by Mark on Peep Show, when trying to think of ways to enrage a driver enough to run him over - thus avoiding his wedding to Sophie.
by The Mysterious Stanley Knife May 29, 2007
a noun relating to the function of the penis, commonly used to belittle friends. In fact all cocks are jizzcocks
by Andy Cockerel May 24, 2007

subset: commoncrawl


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Three GeekDad icons share a birthday today!
Stan Lee, born Stanley Martin Lieber on December 28, 1922, is the creator of Spider-Man and former head of Marvel Comics. Now beginning his 10th decade on Earth, Lee is almost as well-known as his famous comic book heroes, making cameo appearances in movies of The Incredible Hulk, X-Men, The Fantastic Four, both Iron Man films, Thor, Captain America, and this year's Joss Whedon-helmed The Avengers. GeekDad has written often about the man, including a one-on-one interview. We can't wait to see next year's Iron Man 3 and Thor: The Dark World, both because we want to see Lee's cameos and because of our hopes that they become more feathers in his well-worn cap.
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Transformers: Dark of the Moon is released on DVD today, which means you'll get to see plenty of Victoria's Secret model Rosie Huntington-Whitely, who replaced Megan Fox as Shia LaBeouf's love interest. (Source: FightingOverMe.com)


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If anyone is interested in expanding their operation to include maple syrup, but doesn't want to do it on the scale required to payback the investment a small commercial setup takes (at least a few thousand bucks), I think I have finally hit on a pretty good system--after 7 years of experimenting. This should work well for a range of about 10 to 65 trees, producing 5 to 35 gallons or so of syrup. The operator will need to have a weekend day and 1 or 2 late afternoons or early evenings every week they can spare during February and March. For me, 17 gallons of syrup means 500-600 extra from farmers market sales that my wife is already at anyway selling bread, plus all the leftovers I can use. Setup cost can be 50-250 bucks depending on what you can scrounge, so it can be profitable from the get-go. But softies who don't think that shlepping around 500 gallons of cold sap sounds like fun should just stay in front of the computer.
The keys to my way of doing it are to use common steam table pans (either the disposable foil kind or salvage stainless ones) to create both a scalable evaporator and a freeze-thaw concentration system. Freeze concentration was the way natives processed sap, and it means the boiling stage is faster and more fuel efficient by 60-80%. It does require you to watch the weather report like a hawk, but I'm guessing most of us bee-folk are pretty well attuned to that already, especially here in the north. I collect sap in 3 or 5 gallon plastic drinking water containers that sit on the ground at the base of the tree, with plastic tubing that sticks directly into the taphole running the sap down to the container (no spiles.)
If anyone is interested I can give you more details for three easy payments of $199.99 er or else just whatever feedback and pointers you come up with when you try it.


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Airbus' air traffic management subsidiary, Airbus ProSky, will take a leading role in the growth of Singapore's air transport sector through its newly-announced partnership with the Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore (CAAS).
Established by a memorandum of understanding inked earlier in November, this cooperation will facilitate performance and capacity improvements that will help Singapore better meet air traffic demand, as well as enhance the broader Asia-Pacific region's overall air traffic management (ATM) profile.
The Airbus ProSky/CAAS partnership will enable the assessment of technology and serve to accelerate and strengthen ATM system enhancements. In addition, the two will work together to build a Singapore-based ATM centre of excellence for developing new concepts, technologies and solutions.
Airbus is a leading proponent for modernized ATM, with a goal to achieve the highest operational efficiencies through more direct routings – which results in 10-per cent less aircraft fuel consumption and significant reductions in CO2 and noise emissions.
The Airbus ProSky subsidiary – which includes the Metron Aviation, Quovadis and ATRiCs companies – is committed to working side-by-side with Air Navigation Service Providers (ANSP), aircraft operators and airport authorities to build a truly collaborative system with greater capacity, better performance and environmental sustainability for all stakeholders.


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Ben Jervey | September 16, 2011
By Ben Jervey • Friday, September 16, 2011 - 10:58
Last week, the New York Times published a bombshell of an expose about the government's woefully inadequate program to monitor and ensure the security and safety of American energy pipelines. I've spent a lot of time lately investigating the state of North American energy pipelines, and this is by far the best overview I've seen of the government's feckless attempt to oversee the sprawling system and protect the public from spills, leaks, and explosions.
Reporters Dan Frosch and Janet Roberts dig into federal government records and safety documents and surface some truly startling findings. Like the fact that there are "still more than 100 significant spills each year." ("Significant" spills being those that cause a fire, serious injury or death, or release over 2,100 gallons.)
Or that the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration only requires companies to focus their inspections on "the 44 percent of the nation's land-based liquid pipelines that could affect high consequence areas — those near population centers or considered environmentally delicate — which leaves thousands of miles of lines loosely regulated and operating essentially on the honor system." Or the fact that the agency doesn't even employ as many inspectors as federal law demands.
It's well worth reading the whole expose, but here's the crucial takeaway:
The article is accompanied by a jaw dropping map of all the toxic spills from pipelines since 1990. Here's a little taste of the heart of our nation's energy pipeline system – around extraction hubs in Oklahoma and Texas and the refineries along the Gulf of Mexico – but you really must click through and take in the whole nation.
The writers also make the link to the controversial Keystone XL tar sands pipeline that would funnel volatile DilBit crude 1,700 miles across six Great Plains states, 1,904 waterways, and the nation's largest freshwater aquifer (Ogallala).
Keystone XL, like the rest of the tar sands lines in the Keystone system and the tens of thousands of miles of crude pipelines that came before it, would rely largely on the self-policing that Frosch and Roberts prove has been terribly ineffective.
For all the discussion of "energy security," there's remarkably little talk of how much more "secure" our energy system would be if it had appropriate oversight and monitoring in line with the vast scale of the pipeline system. And for all the hollow talk of "job creation," nobody mentions the number of safety workers that should be hired to keep this system running safely to protect the public.
RickJames replied on Permalink
Shortage of inspectors is all
Shortage of inspectors is all to common. You might think that in the jobs stimulus money era there would be money for things like this. Guess not.
My building had only one "annual" fire department inspection in the past decade.
troydonscott replied on Permalink
Mr Jervey Are you
Mr Jervey
Are you completely off the grid? And do you not own a car? If you are not then you are cussing the farmer with your mouth full. I think you need to look at who butters your bread because I really thing this whole blog is using power from the grid and then writing articles like this. If I am wrong please let us know how.
" Are you completely off the
" Are you completely off the grid? And do you not own a car? If you are not then you are cussing the farmer with your mouth full. I think you need to look at who butters your bread because I really thing this whole blog is using power from the grid and then writing articles like this. If I am wrong please let us know how."
Oh yes, we must be in thrall to them forever for this honour & promise never to transition to another fuel source ever until they have made their last dollar out of it………then we are allowed to look for alternatives eh?
troydonscott replied on Permalink
Nope. Not against alternative
Nope. Not against alternative fuels. Just that there are not any that can possibly meet our demands at this time. Rentech is working on one. But even when their product takes over the market it will still run through pipes. Bloom energy seams to be a winner but still requires PIPES. Lets say that we outlaw pipelines altogether then at current consumption it would require 2500 truckloads per day to deliver it. I rather like the idea of piping this stuff. Of course the American Trucking Association would like that idea.
troydonscott replied on Permalink
Actually sounds like
Actually sounds like extremely high numbers but how many of these are still not mitigated? I'm talking about cleaned up and the area returned to normal. Any spill that is less than 5 gallons and can be completely cleaned up does not have to be reported to the EPA. All spills over 5 gallons must be reported to the EPA even if they are completely and immediately cleaned up. So numbers can swell. Some people may be lead to think that these numbers are all from failures in the pipeline. However many of them are spills inflicted during maintenance and repairs. They must be reported because of the rules. But they are contained and cleaned up at the time they happened. As for safety they actually have an extraordinary safety record. I say a good safety record because if we look at the alternative our spills would be much higher. Just imagine shutting down all the pipelines and moving it with trucks, trains, and ships. Myself being a firefighter would much rather respond to a pipeline leak that to 100 LNG train cars derailed. Yea we don't see 100 LNG train cars because we have pipelines. I vote we keep the pipelines.
troydonscott replied on Permalink
Ban Highways!
There are 11.5 million miles of highway in the US. There are 2.3 million miles of gas and oil pipeline in the US. All inclusive in 2008 from drilling rig, through the refineries, to the end user there were 120 industry related deaths in the oil and gas industry. In 2008 there were 39,800 highway deaths. Or 1 death per 1967 miles of pipeline and 1 death per 289 miles of highway. If you are truly concerned with public safety then get all rallied up and ban highways.
RickJames replied on Permalink
Thanks for the perspective. I
Thanks for the perspective. I read somewhere that world wide highway deaths are about 3000 per day.
It's generally viewed as an acceptable price for what highways do for us - unless you're one of the 3000 I suppose.
Spills and pollution are generally viewed as an acceptable price for what energy does for us.


text:
keeping your keys safe
on the go
Stylish, Easy, Flexible
gokey is not only stylish but serves a purpose. While there are many work arounds for storing keys, none of them offer a worry free experience. gokey alleviates this running stressor and brings peace of mind to your jog.
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The Closure
The closure of gokey is one of the most exciting features. The key itself acts as the initial closure for the bracelet with the friction between the key and the silicone creating a secure connection. For added security the "go" logo creates a button closure so the wrist band isn't going anywhere!.
Key Styles
gokey can hold one key at a time. The internal cavity fits most standard house, lock, and locker keys. Keys up to 2.25 inches (5.7cm) long and with a head size 1 inch (2.5cm) across or smaller fit comfortably into the cavity.
We tested many key styles with gokey. The most common house keys are #66 and #68 (the two on the left). If you find either of these numbers on your keys you are good to go. If you have a different kind of key, check this image to see what we have tested. There are thousands of keys out there so we couldn't possibly test them all but go by the measurements and you will be fine.


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Blast this sequence against all of PDB Archive.
In each cluster, the chains are sorted (i.e. ranked) according to the following criteria (in this order):
1/resolution - R-value
This ranking has the following implications:
The internal number of the sequence cluster used for unique identification.
In the table for each entity, view a list of similar sequences by selecting the link associated with
the percentage cutoff.
View more detailed documentation on the redundancy
reduction and
procedure used by
Chains in cluster: 4435 | Cluster ID:1


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Being the owner of a beekeeping supplies business for the last four years, I know about customer service in this industry. Draper's Superbee is one of the first companies I ever dealt with when I first got into beekeeping. I have used them and referred them. For the last few years, what I have purchased from them is candle molds. I have fifty or more, totaling well over $1000.00 in purchases.
Well, one of the candle molds I recently purchased was a small pine cone mold. My girlfriend was excited about having it, but after several attempts to create a candle, we found that we could not get the candle out of the mold without breaking it every time. Now, remember that we have over 50 molds and have NO OTHER issues with any mold that we have ever purchased from them or anyone else.
I called and talked to Royal and explained the situation. I asked him if we could exchange the mold for a different one and he said "sure". Now, even though I felt the mold had some sort of defect, I paid the return shipping no problem. The mold weighed less than 13 ounces when packaged up, so first class mail back to PA was about $3. We sent along a note asking to exchange the mold for another that was specified.
A week or so later I went to the mailbox and found a package so large (an old, beat up "Pure honey" box) that it would barely fit into my JUMBO sized mailbox. I wondered what else he might have sent back to us besides just this little mold. Of course, with the package being so large, it had to be sent priority mail at a cost of $6.85 (clearly stamped on the box by the post office).
Went I got in the house and opened the package, I found a tiny candle mold amongst lots of scrap card board, packing peanuts and an invoice. On the invoice it showed the credit for the returned mold, the cost of the new mold (about $4 less) and a shipping charge of $9.35. Huh? The box clearly said $6.85. There was also a receipt; my credit card had been charged to cover what I "owed" them. Nobody had called to authorize any charges. I called and spoke to the owner, Bill, and explained the situation. He was quick to point out that there was nothing wrong with the mold that I returned and that the extra $2.50 for shipping was for his box, packing peanuts, tape and his time. I asked him if he realized that I had purchased at least 50 molds from him and that this was the only one I ever had an issue with. I asked him if he realized that we own a beekeeping supplies business and that we have referred dozens of folks to him because he has such a great selection of molds. Then, I asked him if he was willing to lose a good customer, a lot of referrals, and get bad press on our Facebook page and elsewhere over $2.50. His answer..."Hey, you do what you gotta do, Pal. I've been in business 40 years, so it makes no difference to me." Then (I was pretty steamed by now), I told him that he wouldn't get the money anyway, because I would call my credit card company and have the charges reversed. I asked him if he was sure he wanted to cause himself all this grief for nothing?? He said "Like I said, Pal, I don't care what you do."
WOW! Seriously?? $2.50 for your box and packaging? What was wrong with reusing the box I sent him? He drove up the cost of shipping by using this ridiculously large box and then charged me for the privilege? Any customer that spent a substantial amount of money with me would have had the returned shipping covered...even if it cost me a couple bucks. If a guy won't cover $2.50 for a customer who spent over a G with him, that tells me one thing...this guys business is seriously hurting. I will never do business with this company again, and will certainly not be sending anyone their way. BEWARE!
My business grows at a rate of 50-75% per year. With people in the industry treating their good customers this way...it's no wonder.


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Huntress Hall, built in 1926, was completely renovated for the fall of 2009 . Located on the main quad, it houses 154 co-ed residents. Each room includes tile floors, numerous electrical outlets, window shades (56" x 39.5" window), overhead lights, wardrobes, and movable furniture. The building is named for Harriet Lane Huntress, who supported the College during many years of service in the state office of education.
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text: I have inherited a hive that is three boxes high. The previous keeper hasn't work them in at least 18 months. I tried to check them, but when I pulled the top box to take some of the honey, the bees became very aggressive. I was handling it, but because the boxes hadn't worked in some time, the frames were stuck in the boxes. The longer I poked and pulled, the madder the bees got. The frames actually started to come apart I was putting so much pressure on them. I finally gave up and put everything back together before running out of there with thousands of bees in hot pursuit. So, I can't get the honey out, and I get to the queen. Please help with any ideas. Thanks.


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All I can find are a few Romy Gs and AMD 65s... I guess that's just what it's come down to since the barrel ban...?
Printable View
All I can find are a few Romy Gs and AMD 65s... I guess that's just what it's come down to since the barrel ban...?
theres no more import on parts kits-last i heard or i coulda heard wrong
most people panic or invest bought kits now thwer sitting on them hoping to make proffits-unfortunately the economy suks and people are loosing jobs and realy have no spare cash for kits so eventualy most of the kits that are being sat on will probably be sold(not at a loss)to pay for bills
wish i had some coin to spare id buy em to build though
Yugo, Egyptian, East German, in fact most makes are out there. Just not cheap and not in the "usual" places. Try gunbroker.
APEX, a sponsor, has East German and Bulgarian kits.
They're out there, just more $$ and harder to find.
Kits are being imported, but with demilled receivers AND demilled barrels.
i sorta figguered that was wrong
but with the way things are goin it sounded about right
dph has 74 kits
The East German APEX kits look decent enough. What's a recommended barrel to use with those?
Building from a kit starts to look a lot less attractive once you have to deal with an unfitted barrel and need to align everything and headspace it, but I guess I'm up for it...
If you got the $$$$$ this place has them.
Don't do business with those guys. There a bunch of crooks. Florida gun works is one "shady" company. I know about 5 guys total which are good friends of mine. Each and every one of them has been ripped of by Florida gun works.
I really appreciate the warning , They list a lot of good stuff but high prices. BUT if on top of it all they are online thieves it good to know. I wonder if they realize that from web site like ours the word gets spread and they will ultimately lose business,


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Excerpt: "Henry Hynoski's knee injury at the end of May caused the New York Giants to do a lot of roster shifting and potential deal making, especially since he needed surgery and could, possibly begin the 2013 season on the Physically Unable to Perform (PUP) List.
Because Hynoski has developed into one of the league's better fullbacks over the last two seasons, his injury in the offense is a tough pill for the Giants to swallow, but it hasn't had General Manager Jerry Reese panicking.
Instead, Reese currently has two options. The first is signing free agent fullback Vonta Leach, who the team is pursuing right now and are currently battling the Miami Dolphins and Houston Texans for. Leach is likely to land with Miami because they have the salary cap space to sign him to a big-time deal, so the Giants would have to get creative in order to sign Leach, but they also need money to sign rookie draft picks Justin Pugh and Ryan Nassib.
Which leads into the second and current option: going with tight end Bear Pascoe as the fullback, which really isn't the worst solution that the Giants could have, especially since he can be a very productive player.
As a tight end, Pascoe is an extremely strong blocker who can catch the occasional pass and do some damage in the open field. In the past, he has been asked to play fullback for the Giants, even though it's not his natural position and he is better suited as the team's second tight end. But with Hynoski out, it's situations like that which call for Pascoe to step in.
If Pascoe goes to fullback, it allows Adrien Robinson to step in and be the second tight end for the Giants behind Brandon Myers and potentially get some early playing time that he wouldn't if Pascoe is the second tight end." Read more...


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nice mod man
Posted on March 2, 2010 12:03PM by kingcj
my friend put that on xbox not long ago.. its awsome!
Posted on May 8, 2010 6:12PM by 4reeeal
how do u apply this?
Posted on April 14, 2011 8:06PM by CHOMPA WOMPA
I hope the frames increase! But still this mod is awesome! 10/10
Posted on December 5, 2011 12:13PM by los314
Posted on January 15, 2012 2:58PM by Grif863
does it help with pc with very low fraps?
Posted on March 10, 2012 2:56PM by lmar3200
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Iowa State University Extension and Outreach and the University of Nebraska are teaming up to offer a feedlot roundtable session at six Iowa locations on Thursday, Feb. 21, from 12:45 to 3:45 p.m. Iowa State Extension beef specialist Russ Euken said the feedlot roundtable sessions are offered annually in Nebraska for feedlot operators and interested agribusiness people.
"ISU Extension and Outreach and University of Nebraska-Lincoln Extension have a cooperative agreement that provides for the sharing of livestock educational resources and programs," Euken said. "The Internet allows us to offer this popular Nebraska roundtable session at selected Iowa locations. The speakers and subject matter are sure to draw interest from our state's beef community."
Temple Grandin from Colorado State University is the featured speaker from the Nebraska program site. She'll speak about animal welfare challenges for the beef feedlot industry. She's followed by Stephen Koontz, also from Colorado State University, who will present a market outlook and information on issues related to formula pricing for fed cattle. This presentation is prerecorded for the program.
The afternoon's schedule concludes with an overview of beef feedlot industry related research and projects at Iowa State University, by Dan Loy and Stephanie Hansen. More information, including a registration form, is available on the event brochure.
The $10 fee covers proceedings, meeting costs and refreshments, and is payable at the door. However, you're asked to preregister no later than Tuesday, Feb. 19, at the location you will attend to ensure adequate materials and refreshments.
Iowa roundtable locations and preregistration contacts
Delaware County Extension Office, 1417 N Franklin St., Manchester. Contact Denise Schwab,319-472-4739 or firstname.lastname@example.com
Howard County Extension Office, 132 1st Ave. West, Cresco. Call 563-547-3001
Kossuth County Extension Office, Hwy 18 E, Algona. Call 515-295-2469
Postville Vet Clinic, 110 Hyman Dr., Postville. Contact Julie Christensen, 563-568-6345 or firstname.lastname@example.com
Sac County Extension Office, 620 Park Ave., Sac City. Call 712-662-7131 or email firstname.lastname@example.com
Wallace Learning Center Armstrong Farm, 53020 Hitchcock Ave., Lewis. Contact Chris Clark, 712-769-2600 or firstname.lastname@example.com
For more information please contact your local county extension office or an ISU Extension and Outreach beef specialist.


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Screws are in. It feels extremely secure!
My drill's battery is dead, so I had to Dremel out the locator holes in the gauntlet with a carving bit.
Nice fit! There's a little gap from the washer built onto the hex screws, but it's not a big deal to me.
I carved out a couple recessed holes on the gauntlet to receive the magnets. To ensure that I carve the holes in the same place on the flamethrower mounting plate, I used a bit of Blu-Tac as a quick mold and pressed the flamethrower onto the gauntlet.
Meh, it mostly worked. Good enough for me!
I'll try two of the button-sized magnets in both sides of the assemblies for now. If I need more, I can always drill another one. If that's still not enough, the locator holes are big enough for another magnet each!
So, I got on with the assembly of the flamethrower tubes. I couldn't wait! I have a ton of brass and aluminum tubes, so I was able to 'sleeve' most of these parts together for a very tight and straight fit. I just used a bunch of JB Weld for these metal part assemblies.
I really hope that the placement is correct. There's like zero reference material for this style of flamethrower. Tomorrow night, I'll be putting on the piano key bits onto the rear block of the flamethrower, and that should be it!


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On the island of Rotoroa in the Hauraki Gulf, Elisabeth Easther finds beaches, birds and peace.
If you ask me, Rotoroa is one of the most charming islands in the Hauraki Gulf, tucked discreetly to the east of Waiheke, and within cooee of Ponui and Pakatoa.
For almost 100 years, the island was home to The Salvation Army's addiction treatment centre, but in 2011 was reopened as an arts, heritage and conservation estate, thanks to benefactors Neal and Annette Plowman.
Smart retro baches have been available to rent, but our group was there to check out the Superintendent's House, freshly minted as an option for larger groups or individuals. Imagine, if you will, a glamorous hostel with mesmerising views from every window.
The house, thought to have been built in the early 1900s, sits high on a hill overlooking Home Bay. As well as a spacious communal living area, there are four bedrooms, with 18 bunks, plenty of bathrooms, barbecues and furniture, plus enough glasses, china and cutlery to cater for a veritable army, salvation or otherwise.
It's all so spick and span and fresh. Visitors only need bring their bedding and food, because everything else is here. And at only $35 a bed a night, you're sure to meet all sorts of interesting people, or you might have the place to yourself. The surprise is half the fun.
Arriving on Rotoroa on a balmy summer's evening, the 70-minute ferry trip quickly deleted all memory of the traffic chaos we'd experienced in Auckland's rush hour. The island's resident custodians met us at the wharf and kindly transported our gear (I confess, there was a fair bit of luggage) up the hill.
There are shelves of books (you can swap your novel for another, if you like) and magazines (an impressive collection of NZ Geographics), games, a stereo and happily no TV, which the children failed to notice since they were so busy occupying themselves in the hills and on the beach.
On the island of 82ha, there are several kilometres of walking tracks that go in a sort of figure of eight (with tentacle offshoots) around the island, through regenerating native bush and veritable avenues of flax.
More than 400,000 native plants have been reintroduced to Rotoroa, using mirror planting from surrounding islands. And there are numerous curiosities to explore; the old schoolhouse, the chapel, a butchery, jail cells and a small cemetery. The Chris Booth sculpture on the island's southern headland is worth the walk. And with a bunch of sandy beaches, whichever way the wind's blowing there'll always be a sheltered cove. The sand on Ladies Bay was so spectacularly soft, one of our gang described it as like walking on cake.
One of the many things the island deserves to be known for is the visitor centre which opened in 2009 to commemorate its fascinating past. The elegant building, modern yet at one with the environment, requires you to take the "12 steps": up a gentle ramp. The exhibits are beautifully realised, the oral histories captivating.
There's a fair bit of wildlife too. We saw stingrays and those with better eyesight than me spotted a distant pod of orca.
We also saw herons, weka, pukekos, oyster-catchers and a pair of fetching shelducks. That aspect is only going to get better, thanks to a new partnership between Auckland Zoo and the Rotoroa Island Trust. The two organisations are going to work together to set up a wildlife conservation sanctuary which, once established, will give the public an opportunity to interact with an environment under restoration. So, today it is the island being rehabilitated. Thanks to a small team of employees and a large bunch of volunteers, Rotoroa will continue to be a sanctuary, for flora, fauna and humans, an oasis of serenity.
Getting there: 360 Discovery Cruises operates a ferry service. It's also accessible by boat.
Staying there: The island has a range of accommodation, including three cottages and the newly opened Superintendent's House, where beds are just $35 a night (reductions available for schools or community groups). And unlike the smaller cottages, visitors can stay for just one night, or as many nights as they like. See rotoroa.org.nz for details.
Elisabeth Easther was a guest of Rotoroa Island Trust


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Are You Drooling Over Matthew Morrison's Incredible Body? We Are!
Matthew's not just a talented performer — he also has one fabulously flabless body!
Glee star Matthew Morrison's ripped abs, flawless skin, bright green eyes and beautiful face are on the cover of Details magazine's December issue, in which he totally lets loose about his personal life. He even kisses and tells about his time on Broadway! Being a hot heterosexual guy in a mostly homosexual business definitely had its advantages! We can only imagine…
"There was so much opportunity," he admits. "There were all these beautiful, beautiful dancers. As a straight guy, I had some room. There were the shared interests in singing and dancing, and I always find dancing with someone very evocative and sexual. I definitely hooked up with a lot of girls when I was a young guy on Broadway. It was exciting. Very joyous and free."
Still, Matthew says he's got his share of insecurities. "I'm not comfortable with the idea of my sex appeal, but I know in my job I have to use it," he says. "I wish I could say I got to this point in my career based on my talent, but I don't think that's true."
But even though the real-life Mr. Schuester may be charming and hot, he isn't looking for any friends or girlfriends — so don't get any ideas! "I'm not a good friend right now," he admits. "I'm not a good boyfriend. It's not that I'm selfish. I'm just focused."
So if you run into him on the street, don't expect anything other than a smile!


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Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Fandango, Jul 23, 2012.
Irina's comeback from illness was heading into 06, not 02.
This just shows why they don't let folks judge from home.
Have you watched the video of Hughes FS lately? While she was a notorious under-rotater, in that particular skate all her jumps (except possibly the 3Loop on the end of the 3S combo) were fully enough rotated. Yes, the Lutz technique deserves a ding, but under the rules of the day (and even of today) the skater gets credit for the lutz even with the incorrect edge. There is no way anyone could justify a 5.5 technical mark for a ladies skate with 7 (or even 6) successfully landed triples, including two 3-3 combinations, good speed and attack, nice spirals, and a beautiful layback spin. There were really very few places anyone could take off on her technical mark in that particular skate.
IMO the worst ordinal of this event was Slutskaya not getting 1st in the SP.
still trying to get my head around TT and "sweet personality" used in the same sentence without the benefit of other words like "complete lack of" etc...
and by "work with" you mean "getting @#$%ed by" right
Thanks kwanette, for the correction re Irina's illness having occurred after 2002. My bad in not checking the date for accuracy.
Right you may be berthesghost re TatTot. I never met her in person, but she did seem to come off as shy (not necessarily equivalent to "sweet") in interviews, altho' that could have been because she didn't speak English well and/or was uncomfortable in interviews. I think I'll "fold 'em" re Vasiliev and TatTot's "working" or otherwise relationship.
Yes, I agree that Michelle and Irina were unable to overcome the pressure of their Olympic moments (weight of those rings, as some of you say likely being the major factor). Still, the arena was going wild for Sarah after she skated, so you add 4th place skater skating lights out in the fp, along with the "weight of those rings" ...
Re Slute not getting 1st place ordinals in sp, didn't she get some 1st place ordinals? She was just not first overall. If you like Slute best, I guess it's "worst" she wasn't 1st in sp and 1st in fp too. I don't see how Kwan being 1st overall in the sp is that debatable. But yeah, how could I forget, everything's debatable when it comes to fs.
Because most of us have no idea who the hell he is?
I mean, I sure didn't. He competed 21 years before I was born and I've never heard him mentioned before. Naturally, I know about Dick and Peggy and Katarina and all the other big stars who made a difference and are iconic in the sport, as well as skaters who maybe didn't medal as highly but were also very beloved and are talked about, but when a skater is never mentioned, even an Olympic Gold Medalist, why would anyone my age (or even many years older than me, as people who are currently 44 were born the year he won) know about them?
Um... so the fact that he was an OGM and won absolutely nothing else and absolutely no ever talks about him ever didn't make you at least suspect he might be "the most unbeloved" vs some of the recent skaters who while hated by some are loved by others and the debate rages on and on and on,.... ?
Plus all of the news about him being arrested for human slave trafficing was just a few years ago, and the "Tim Wood wuz robbed" story comes up every few years, so..
I think the standings in FS should have been: 1st - Hughes, 2nd - Kwan, 3rd - Cohen!
^^ In that scenario, wouldn't Kwan have won gold overall, and Hughes silver?
And Cohen bronze. I can't imagine a us sweep in slc would have gone down too well.
^^ Yeah true, altho' incredibly it did happen at 1991 Worlds: Yama/gold; Harding/silver; Kerrigan/bronze (largely because of Ito sustaining injuries from falling out of rink during sp, and then not being at full strength in the fp).
Of course, much less likely for one country sweep in one fs event to happen at an Olympics, but not unheard of I imagine if you look at all athletic events in both summer and winter Olympics. Haven't Russians swept gold in at least 3 of 4 fs events on several occasions?
I say, what an embarrassment of riches there used to be in U.S. ladies field internationally (now Japan has taken on that mantle).
I voted for S/P. I can't believe they asked to keep their silver medals too in addition to the gold.
Yama and Harding rocked Munich in a way kwan and hughes didnt imo. As iffy as kerrigan's bronze was, poor midori really was a hot mess. Cohen had a hard fall and combined with her shallow edges and poor ice coverage, I just don't see her out scoring irina or her voting block. As it was, the accusations of home court prejudice did fly.
IIRC, Harding did land a 3axel but also had several mistakes afterwards. Kerrigan was as much a mess as Ito and IIRC both landed 4 clean triples.
The voting block argument is right on. 2001/2 GPF anyone?
Since 1991, US's closest shot to a clean sweep was probably 1997 Worlds and 1998 Olympics. Bobek had skated surprisingly well at Nationals both seasons and could definitely medal if she kept up her form.
2001 was another close year but by that time Slutskaya had established a name for herself and it was not easy to knock her off the podium, especially since this was the year she had a great short program. 2003 and 2004 were easier years with Slutskaya's absence but by that time US no longer had a viable bronze contender.
Gone down well with whom? Irina's camp? They would have to get over it. It's true, how many other times have countries swept the medals and that's just how it is if they are the best. It's competition. Of course now, gymnastics is limited to where this will never happen again. Fair or not? That is the question.
They asked or they were allowed? I thought they were just told to keep them.
We see medals given, taken away, given back etc.. In swimming and gymnastics and other sports where subjective opinion is suppose to matter little to nothing. Skating? That's all it is. Subjective opinion.
Irina just barely lost gold in slc. Now I'm suppose to believe she could be totally off the podium and no one, not piseev, not speedy, not most euro media outlets, would have done anything but shrug and say "oh we'll, it wasn't her day"? Are we following the same sport?
No, they had to return the medals. Post-Olympics they asked for them back and were told no, Sale complained that they were probably sitting on somebody's fireplace mantel or something like that
I hate to read that, it really doesn't make me feel bad for them. I assumed they gave the medals back as soon as they got the gold. I never would have thought they (Sale) complained about not getting the silver medals back. They never thought they deserved them in the first place.
Yeah I don't get that. Why would you want to keep a piece of metal that is haunted? Although, they could want to keep them as memento's of their "actual" medal ceremony. That's the only reason I can think of. I was always under the impression that they got to keep both. I didn't know they sent the silvers back.
Actually, IMO, S/P and B/S as well as S/Z and the entire pairs competition (plus fs and fans of fs) were the victims in slc. S/P felt they skated great and deserved to win, but when it didn't happen although they weren't pleased, they accepted it because they had no other choice and skaters are conditioned to accept results however delusional they might be about their performances, or however unfair the judges might be in their scoring.
It was the media and the Canadian Federation complaints, and ultimately the corrupt judging and the IOC demands to "fix" the "fix" that led to the ISU awarding S/P with the second gold medal. Many of you guys act like you think S/P actually had clout in this situation or that they held up the IOC and the ISU by gunpoint. As far as S/P desiring to keep their silver medals, I think it was hard for them to go through the emotion of the first ceremony with their silver medals when they had expected to win. However, having gone through the first ceremony and having accepted the fact they won silver, I seriously doubt that S/P were completely on board with having to go through the second ceremony and were conceivably conflicted about receiving the gold in that after-the-fact way, especially because it put them and B/S in an awkward position. The judges' original decision had been made, however corrupted by behind-the-scenes dealing and post-judging controversy, and a media whirlwind ensued which S/P also had no control over. Plus by the time the ISU finally made the decision to reward double gold in the pairs event, S/P had probably gained some attachment to their silver medals. And since this situation was unprecedented, wouldn't you want to ask or wonder what in fact would happen to the silver medals you already had in your possession? Those silver medals should probably have been given to an International Skating Museum.
Bottom line: All S/P did was skate their best. They had absolutely no control over what happened before or after. The ISU didn't ask S/P if they wanted to trade in their silver medals for gold, they told them this is going to happen and you need to show up at such and such a time for the second ceremony, after which the ISU wiped the sweat off their foreheads, swallowed hard and got down to the business of figuring out how to overcome the far-reaching mess the judging scandal had created -- which of course led to IJS/ CoP and an even further far-reaching mess.
ain't that the truth!
That is incorrect. Judge #9, Joe Inman, told The New York Times and many other outlets he called it as he saw it, and put Slutskaya second because he thought she skated better than Kwan. That's what he said "on the record."
Inman's marks: Hughes 11.6 (5.8, 5.8), Slutskaya 11.5 (5.8, 5.7), Kwan 11.4 (5.6, 5.8) and Cohen 11.3 (5.6, 5.7)
The Russian judge, for comparison, voted: Slutskaya 11.7 (5.8, 5.9), Cohen 11.6 (5.8, 5.8), Kwan 11.5 (5.7, 5.8) and Hughes 11.5 (5.8, 5.7).
Slutskaya may have lost gold when the judging panel was decided. Inman was the final judge's name pulled out of the hat; the one judge left, a Ukrainian, was not seated and became an alternate. If there was an East v. West bloc, presumably, the Ukrainian would have gone with Slutskaya, making her the winner.
I also remember S/P jokingly said during the press conference after the decision of double gold that they hope they can also receive the bronze to complete the set. I'm surprised people didn't jump down their throats for that comment also.
Yeah I agree with emotional attachment to the silvers. It's awkward to have two medals for the same event. I'm sure they felt like they didn't really earn the gold and wanted to keep their "correct" medals, the silver. Even if the voting was unfair.
Sarah Hughes and Sale/Pelletier in any order by a huge huge margin for all the obvious reasons.
Nobody else comes anywhere near.
You are right, but how the heck did she manage to pull off not cheating her jumps on that particular day? Seems impossible.
Yeah but what was so outrageous wasn't so much Hughes winning in the FS (although I'd personally have Slutskaya 1st) but the SP placements.
Kwan had a weak SP. She clearly underrotated the 3flip, her timing was way off on the steps and Slutskaya should have easily beaten her as you said yourself.
Hughes should have been outside the top 10 after the SP.
Most of the ladies skated clean and between Hughes' huge flutz, shaky jump landings, weak posture, lack of stretch, toe-point and generally a pedestrian quality to her skating, her placing 4th in the SP was based on past results, politics and home skater bonus and not her actual skating.
I could live with Hughes winning the FS (like I can live with Lipinski winning the FS) but those SP placements were beyond awful.
I couldn't stand either Hughes or Slute but would rather have Slute ahead if it came down to that.
Both the 3sal and the 3loop in the first 3/3 were cheated, bad flutz and toe axel on the second combo, mule kick on 3flip, the 3loop of the 2nd 3/3 was cheated, OK the first 2axel and final 3toe were clean. Her flutz and flip were probably the best ones she has ever done but still flawed technique wise, I would definitely not say "There were really very few places anyone could take off on her technical mark in that particular skate.", especially since the first mark under the old system was about technical merit accumulation, and that kind of jumping technique and quality does not really accumulate much merit in my book. Her non jump elements, except the flying camel, were on par if not outright better than those by Kwan and Slutskaya. She skated with speed and complex choreography and that's why I think she deserves the highest second mark of the night. First mark? Not by a long shot.
By the way I am not saying the judges should have given her those marks. The judges under the same system gave Bonaly 5.8s and 5.9s for horrible and cheated jumps too. I wouldn't expect less of how they would treat Hughes. But then it's the difference of "what I feel they should do (5.5)" and "what I think they would do (5.8)".
Are you saying Lipinski should have placed lower than 2nd in SP?


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text: Written by WARREN ELLIS Pencils & Cover by KAARE ANDREWS Something is causing the children of an African village to be born mutated. Something in the woodland outside the village. Something they don't talk about. But now, whatever it is, it's being hunted, and the X-Men are trapped between the hunters and the hunted. 32 PGS Cover price $3.99.


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>>2013 Bee Supply
As we do every January, we will be making last-minute adjustments in our bee supply, cutting and filling as winter bee losses come into focus. Our + or 5% on the number of bee colonies you contract with as allows us to book +5%, then cut back to -5% should conditions warrant.
Current Bee Problems
Getting strong bee colonies for almonds (8 to 10 frames of bees) will be a much tougher task for the 2013 season than it has been in recent years, for two main reasons. 1. loss of the most effective chemical for varroa mite control. 2. poor bee forage last year due to drought conditions in most bee areas.
The varroa mite has been the scourge of beekeeping since it was first found in the U.S. in 1987. Varroa mites not only kill or weaken honey bees directly, but also spread deadly viruses from bee to bee, from colony to colony and from apiary to apiary. The most effective varroa control chemical became unavailable in 2012 because the overseas manufacturer stopped production. Beekeepers that stockpiled the material in 2011 got good varroa control in 2012, but some beekeepers had to use alternate materials and found their colonies weakened to the point where many perished or were too far gone to nurse back to almond pollinating strength. There is a crying need for effective varroa-control products. The difficulty in controlling this pernicious pest with approved products is causing some beekeepers to improvise their own varroa treatments.
Drought conditions have left bee colonies in many areas in a weakened nutritional state, making them more susceptible to varroa mites and its associated viruses. This one-two punch from varroa and drought will result in above average winter losses of bees and overall weaker bee colony strength for almonds. Although it will be tougher this year, we are confident that we will meet our commitment to supply you with 8+ frame bee colonies. Some beekeepers are predicting $200/colony bee rental prices for almonds for the few growers that havent yet contracted for bees or for growers whose beekeepers jumped ship because they didnt feel they were getting a fair price. We are confident that our beekeepers will stick with us even though some will lose money this year due to the unforeseen problems outlined above.<<
I think that about sums it up.