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Comments on PIOMAS April 2017 TypePad 2017-04-05T11:44:00Z Neven http://neven1.typepad.com/blog/ tag:typepad.com,2003:http://neven1.typepad.com/blog/2017/04/piomas-april-2017/comments/atom.xml/ Bill Fothergill commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b8d27c09fa970c 2017-04-26T09:04:06Z 2017-04-26T09:04:14Z Bill Fothergill http://profile.typepad.com/billfothergill @ Rob & NeilT I took a wild swing at answering the "Volume versus area/extent" question on the ASIF. https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1834.900.html...
@ Rob & NeilT

I took a wild swing at answering the "Volume versus area/extent" question on the ASIF.

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1834.900.html

Comment #949

My simplistic number crunching came down on the side of volume.
 John Bilsky commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb0994a261970d 2017-04-25T22:10:48Z 2017-04-25T22:10:50Z John Bilsky http://profile.typepad.com/6p019104a1a38a970c Joffan7, Yes indeed. I've been watching the condition of the ice above Morris Jesup and it's been looking like Swiss...
Joffan7, Yes indeed. I've been watching the condition of the ice above Morris Jesup and it's been looking like Swiss Cheese since late March. It's also moving east... to be exported through Fram Straight I suppose. The Beaufort is also a mess and I think the area north of Barrow & Prudhoe Bay opened up around the 10th of April. I'm having flashbacks to watching the ice leave Belmont Lake which I mention here from time to time. Should prove to be an interesting melting season as always.
 Joffan7 commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b7c8f15654970b 2017-04-25T14:53:18Z 2017-04-25T14:53:20Z Joffan7 http://profile.typepad.com/joffan7 About this time of year I start looking at the Nares Strait on Worldview to see how the ice bridges...
About this time of year I start looking at the Nares Strait on Worldview to see how the ice bridges west of Greenland are holding up. This year I see it's been open for a month already.
 Wade Smith commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b8d27bb5d6970c 2017-04-25T14:27:48Z 2017-04-25T14:27:50Z Wade Smith http://profile.typepad.com/6p01b8d0e53068970c Oh well, it looks like Louisiana, Florida, Shanghai, and Myanmar all get obliterated at some point in the next few...
Oh well, it looks like Louisiana, Florida, Shanghai, and Myanmar all get obliterated at some point in the next few centuries. Let's not forget much of Coastal Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, and all the U.S. east coast states too.

There'll be Hurricanes making landfall in Arkansas at some future date in a few centuries.

I wonder how Global Climate will be effected whenever the Gulf Stream can just cut straight across Florida, due to sea level rise, instead of being squeezed between Florida and Cuba?
 NeilT commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b7c8f13dc2970b 2017-04-25T10:05:59Z 2017-04-25T10:06:00Z NeilT http://profile.typepad.com/thomasne Rob, given that seasonal cold and heat have a much larger "visual" impact on extent I'd say the Arctic will...
Rob, given that seasonal cold and heat have a much larger "visual" impact on extent I'd say the Arctic will follow the volume line. Seems logical as volume reflects ice lost, regardless of area, whereas extent just reflects where it's cold enough to freeze in winter and strong enough to not quite melt out in summer.
 Rob Dekker commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb09945232970d 2017-04-25T04:04:02Z 2017-04-25T04:04:05Z Rob Dekker http://profile.typepad.com/rob55 Yes Hans. As Bernie said about the billionaires that rule the nation : "Their Greed Has No End.". Right now,...
Yes Hans. As Bernie said about the billionaires that rule the nation : "Their Greed Has No End.".

Right now, when we are about to find out if Arctic sea ice follows the PIOMAS "volume" graph of a fast decent to an ice free Arctic within this decade, or if it follows the "extent" graph that follows suggests an ice free Arctic around mid-century, right now we are faced with a US legislative forum that denies Global Warming, and will do nothing to curb the carbon emission trend.
 Hans Gunnstaddar commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b8d27b72f5970c 2017-04-24T20:27:17Z 2017-04-24T20:27:20Z Hans Gunnstaddar http://profile.typepad.com/6p017c3855e0da970b "They are using multiple forms of trickery, and a huge amount of money, to block reality. Sad." Yes, sad, and...
"They are using multiple forms of trickery, and a huge amount of money, to block reality. Sad."

Yes, sad, and one of those forms of trickery was Trump told people many of the same lines FDR used to get people to vote for him, like he was going to be a president of the regular person etc., however the difference is Trump didn't mean any of it. The R's keep fooling less educated people into voting against their own best interest by claiming an allegiance with them, when in reality they just want to help those that fund their campaigns; super wealthy individuals and corporations.

That's why the American people would be much better off using taxpayer money to fund campaigns, i.e. campaign finance reform, but it never gets off the ground because the R's don't want it, because then they would be fighting for the American people and it's much more lucrative to align their interests with the super wealthy. It's a system that originated to be for 'The People' but has become corrupted to be for 'The wealthy' just like healthcare. The same thing is happening to water as privatization takes over and water rates go through the roof. We use to pay 36 dollars every two months and now we pay over a 100 a month. Why? Privitization means shareholders always want more.

 NeilT commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb099432d7970d 2017-04-24T20:26:01Z 2017-04-24T20:26:02Z NeilT http://profile.typepad.com/thomasne Very true Susan. But, you have to admit, the response to the block of free movement of certain people was...
Very true Susan.

But, you have to admit, the response to the block of free movement of certain people was faster, more robust and straight to court where it was supported by the judges.

If only we had the same movement on CO2... But we don't. Not only don't we but Trump was voted in on a clear agenda which included hampering the ability to reduce CO2.

Hence my somewhat abrasive remarks. We will survive Trump and his anti Climate Change rhetoric as we have survived others. But it does beg the question as to what the priorities of the US people are.
 Susan Anderson commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b7c8f0ef56970b 2017-04-24T15:42:17Z 2017-04-24T15:42:19Z Susan Anderson http://profile.typepad.com/susananderson3 NeilT, please don't generalize. Granted the Kochtopus and others have been busy taking over authorities (they dominate in 31 states),...
NeilT, please don't generalize. Granted the Kochtopus and others have been busy taking over authorities (they dominate in 31 states), Republicans are not in the actual majority overall, nor do they represent their own constituents, but rather their big funders. They are using multiple forms of trickery, and a huge amount of money, to block reality. Sad.

Meanwhile, there are 17 Attorneys General suing the feds and several other lawsuits under way.
 NeilT commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb0993ff40970d 2017-04-24T12:28:53Z 2017-04-24T12:28:58Z NeilT http://profile.typepad.com/thomasne It's worth considering the viewpoint of the politically active. In the first 100 days there have been multiple court cases...
It's worth considering the viewpoint of the politically active.

In the first 100 days there have been multiple court cases to block executive orders from Trump which restrict movement of people from countries which, if you are looking with a fair view, are likely places where a threat to the people may come. Even blocking executive orders before they are implemented.

Yet we see no court cases blocking Trump from causing threat to the people by removing the initiatives designed to reduce the threat of CO2 impact. Something the US Military have been threat assessing as "high" for a decade now.

In short the impression I get of the people of the US is that they don't want their people to be safe now and they don't want their children and grandchildren to have a safe future. Well if it does anything to restrict their "freedoms" now anyway.

I know this is not quite fair and not strictly correct. But then impressions aren't are they??
 Bill Fothergill commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb0993c4eb970d 2017-04-23T18:36:58Z 2017-04-23T18:37:01Z Bill Fothergill http://profile.typepad.com/billfothergill For those unaware of "March for Science" mentioned above by Rob... https://www.marchforscience.com/mission/
For those unaware of "March for Science" mentioned above by Rob...

https://www.marchforscience.com/mission/
 Rob Dekker commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b8d27ad5fb970c 2017-04-23T05:54:15Z 2017-04-23T05:54:19Z Rob Dekker http://profile.typepad.com/rob55 On this Earth Day, and the March of Science day, I place one OT, but still very much urgent comment...
On this Earth Day, and the March of Science day, I place one OT, but still very much urgent comment :

President Trump has, in three short months, approved the Keystone XL and Dakota Access pipelines, moved to slash the Environmental Protection Agency's budget to its lowest level in 40 years, and issued orders to roll back the Clean Water Rule, the Clean Power Plan and climate research and science.

When we abandon science, we abandon informed democracy.
 Share this video if you can :
 https://www.facebook.com/neildegrassetyson/videos/10155195888806613/

 Hans Gunnstaddar commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b8d27a9573970c 2017-04-22T07:31:42Z 2017-04-22T07:31:45Z Hans Gunnstaddar http://profile.typepad.com/6p017c3855e0da970b http://www.climatecentral.org/news/we-just-breached-the-410-parts-per-million-threshold-21372 Article on passing 410 ppm CO2 for the first time. Passed 400 in 2013 so that's 10 ppm added...
http://www.climatecentral.org/news/we-just-breached-the-410-parts-per-million-threshold-21372

Article on passing 410 ppm CO2 for the first time. Passed 400 in 2013 so that's 10 ppm added in 4 years.
 Hans Gunnstaddar commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb09933184970d 2017-04-21T18:59:42Z 2017-04-21T18:59:47Z Hans Gunnstaddar http://profile.typepad.com/6p017c3855e0da970b https://www.co2.earth/ CO2 level just passed 410 ppm for the first time on 4/18, to hit a daily high of 410.28
https://www.co2.earth/

CO2 level just passed 410 ppm for the first time on 4/18, to hit a daily high of 410.28

 Susan Anderson commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb0992dead970d 2017-04-20T20:56:20Z 2017-04-20T20:56:21Z Susan Anderson http://profile.typepad.com/susananderson3 Thanks, done, and cbc link therein. Fascinating!
Thanks, done, and cbc link therein. Fascinating!
 Hans Gunnstaddar commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb0992dcb3970d 2017-04-20T20:28:48Z 2017-04-20T20:28:52Z Hans Gunnstaddar http://profile.typepad.com/6p017c3855e0da970b Ck. the link, Susan.
Ck. the link, Susan.
 Bill Fothergill commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb0992d260970d 2017-04-20T18:12:02Z 2017-04-20T18:12:05Z Bill Fothergill http://profile.typepad.com/billfothergill @ Susan See the Arctic Image of the Day thread on the forum. http://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,416.800.html Comment #835 and onwards.
@ Susan

See the Arctic Image of the Day thread on the forum.

http://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,416.800.html

Comment #835 and onwards.
 Susan Anderson commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb0992c80c970d 2017-04-20T16:11:29Z 2017-04-20T16:11:32Z Susan Anderson http://profile.typepad.com/susananderson3 Slightly OT, and perhaps mentioned elsewhere, but I found this interesting. Icebergs Are Swarming Shipping Lanes in the Arctic Great...
Slightly OT, and perhaps mentioned elsewhere, but I found this interesting.
  Icebergs Are Swarming Shipping Lanes in the Arctic

Great picture of bergs off Newfoundland. That's quite far south. I tried to copy it here, but it came out too large, so will leave it at the link.
 r w Langford commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb0990f876970d 2017-04-15T18:58:44Z 2017-04-15T18:58:49Z r w Langford http://profile.typepad.com/rwlangford The article I mentioned above by Barry Saxifrage is not behind a paywall as he does not charge anything to...
The article I mentioned above by Barry Saxifrage is not behind a paywall as he does not charge anything to publishers for use of his articles. It is his way of contributing. His graphs on CO2 accumulation are very important as they show that atmospheric CO2 is rising ever more quickly despite lower energy use in many countries. Where is this CO2 coming from?
 one graph shows the increases up until very recently. The black bars at the top of the right hand of the graph are the recent numbers. Scary?
 Last two years average increase 3.0ppm, last five years 2.5 ppm, 1996 to 2006 2.0 ppm increase.
 http://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/04/10/opinion/atmospheric-co2-levels-accelerate-upwards-smashing-records
 wayne commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b7c8edab71970b 2017-04-15T05:20:44Z 2017-04-15T05:20:47Z wayne http://profile.typepad.com/6p017c31916995970b Jim Could be so, however 2017 b ice starts with certainty from bottom thermistor 19, they call 172 cm ice,...
Jim

 Could be so, however 2017 b ice starts with certainty from bottom thermistor 19, they call 172 cm ice, this leaves 2 thermistors above ice,
 of which thermistor 1 may be in air the other in snow 7 to 9 cm thick. I have learned by multiple observations that surface air temperature varies very little in 2 meters. A colder top of snow by 2 C may have a .2 C temperature inversion to the surface air height.

 2017a top thermistor variations were impossible, and that is because the sun varied in altitude a lot more. The mere presence of rays causing bright snow affect thermistors. Even in a shade right next to lit snow, because light scatters and travels very well below its skin.
 Jim Hunt commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b8d277e16e970c 2017-04-14T18:00:51Z 2017-04-14T18:00:53Z Jim Hunt http://profile.typepad.com/jim_hunt Wayne - Bear in mind that air temperature increased from ~-30 to ~-16 over the course of April 11th. My...
Wayne - Bear in mind that air temperature increased from ~-30 to ~-16 over the course of April 11th.

My take is that thermistors 1-3 (in columns 2-4) are in air, and 4-5 are in snow.
 wayne commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b7c8ed7aac970b 2017-04-14T16:17:40Z 2017-04-14T16:17:42Z wayne http://profile.typepad.com/6p017c31916995970b 2017a (last transmission) had a larger diurnal solar input variance due to its latitude: 4/2/17 12:00 -26.55 1013.51 0.1 1.02...
2017a (last transmission) had a larger diurnal solar input variance due to its latitude:

4/2/17 12:00 -26.55 1013.51 0.1 1.02 0 -1.02 -27.06 -27.13 -25.86 -19.79 -14.04
 4/2/17 13:00 -26.87 1013.91
 4/2/17 14:00 -26.71 1014.32
 4/2/17 15:00 -26.55 1014.73
 4/2/17 16:00 -25.34 1015.14 0.1 1 0 -1 -25.03 -25.04 -24.21 -19.6 -14.29
 4/2/17 17:00 -22.89 1015.41
 4/2/17 18:00 -20.71 1015.83
 4/2/17 19:00 -20.8 1016.22
 4/2/17 20:00 -20.04 1016.77 0.07 1.02 0 -1.02 -17.89 -16.63 -17.57 -16.25 -13.47
 4/2/17 21:00 -17.97 1016.9
 4/2/17 22:00 -17.53 1017.38
 4/2/17 23:00 -16.62 1017.72
 4/3/17 0:00 -17 1017.99 0.08 1.02 0 -1.02 -9.75 -6.48 -10.7 -13.66 -12.59
 4/3/17 1:00 -17.67 1018.39
 4/3/17 2:00 -17.88 1018.67
 4/3/17 3:00 -17.78 1018.94
 4/3/17 4:00 -19.95 1019.21 0.09 1.02 0 -1.02 -14.86 -13.91 -14.54 -14.36 -12.46
 4/3/17 5:00 -22.36 1019.48
 4/3/17 6:00 -23.36 1019.82
 4/3/17 7:00 -23.88 1020.02
 4/3/17 8:00 -25.08 1020.3 0.08 1.02 0 -1.02 -25.54 -25.61 -24.21 -18.02 -13.22
 4/3/17 9:00 -24.9 1020.84
 4/3/17 10:00 -25 1020.97
 4/3/17 11:00 -25.64 1021.18
 4/3/17 12:00 -25.88 1021.52 0.09 1.02 0 -1.02 -27 -26.87 -25.23 -18.77 -13.6

 We can see here when the sun is lower between 08:00 and 12:00 the always more accurate surface reading was warmer than top of sea ice or snow thermistors, the extraordinary jump in temperature at 00z when sun is highest, top of snow sea ice warmer than surface air by 9 C is impossible. Also consider the specific heat capacity of sea ice , much bigger than air,
 In other words, sea ice Cp makes T variances much slower than air.

 To sum it up, the Mass Buoy surface temperature reading is a better approximation of top sea ice temperature than top 3 or 4 thermistor actual readings. As a guide to seasonal thermal evolutions, this is absolutely crucial to consider.
 wayne commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb0990930e970d 2017-04-14T16:01:37Z 2017-04-14T16:01:39Z wayne http://profile.typepad.com/6p017c31916995970b Jim I like it, but be weary of the top 5 thermistor readings, 4/11/17 8:00 -28.62 1024.78 0.09 1.72 0...
Jim

 I like it, but be weary of the top 5 thermistor readings,

4/11/17 8:00 -28.62 1024.78 0.09 1.72 0 -1.72 -27 -26.62 -26.24 -25.35
 4/11/17 9:00 -27.21 1024.64
 4/11/17 10:00 -26.3 1024.57
 4/11/17 11:00 -25.9 1024.64
 4/11/17 12:00 -25.57 1024.51 0.09 1.72 0 -1.72 -24.66 -24.34 -23.96 -23.26
 4/11/17 13:00 -23.82 1024.37
 4/11/17 14:00 -22.58 1024.1
 4/11/17 15:00 -23.18 1023.96
 4/11/17 16:00 -22.39 1023.83 0.08 1.72 0 -1.72 -21.74 -21.36 -21.18 -20.92
 4/11/17 17:00 -21.39 1023.49
 4/11/17 18:00 -21.27 1023.28
 4/11/17 19:00 -21.36 1022.87
 4/11/17 20:00 -20.68 1022.6 0.08 1.74 0 -1.74 -19.78 -19.59 -19.66 -19.91
 4/11/17 21:00 -19.7 1022.46
 4/11/17 22:00 -17.79 1022.46
 4/11/17 23:00 -16.85 1022.33
 4/12/17 0:00 -16.47 1022.26 0.07 1.7 0 -1.7 -16.12 -16.25 -16.37 -17.32
 4/12/17 1:00 -16.24 1022.46
 4/12/17 2:00 -16.61 1022.33
 4/12/17 3:00 -16.43 1022.06
 4/12/17 4:00 -16.2 1021.78 0.07 1.74 0 -1.74 -15.81 -15.87 -15.87 -16.82
 4/12/17 5:00 -16.7 1021.65
 4/12/17 6:00 -16.57 1021.24
 4/12/17 7:00 -17.26 1020.97
 4/12/17 8:00 -15.56 1020.69 0.09 1.72 0 -1.72 -15.17 -15.17 -15.3 -16.44

 2017b has very little solar irradiance variance at the moment, but none of the top 3 or 4 are colder than the surface reading, this is highly unlikely.

 Hans Gunnstaddar commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb099091b0970d 2017-04-14T15:51:43Z 2017-04-14T15:51:46Z Hans Gunnstaddar http://profile.typepad.com/6p017c3855e0da970b Thanks Susan. Yeah, there is something in the way Thaller explains it that just seems to cut through and nail...
Thanks Susan. Yeah, there is something in the way Thaller explains it that just seems to cut through and nail it, as with that quote.

Also thanks for the link to the great article and breathtaking photos.
 Jim Hunt commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb099088a5970d 2017-04-14T14:06:27Z 2017-04-14T14:06:46Z Jim Hunt http://profile.typepad.com/jim_hunt Another ice mass balance buoy has been installed in the Arctic, this time near the North Pole. Here is what...
Another ice mass balance buoy has been installed in the Arctic, this time near the North Pole. Here is what buoy 2017B revealed shortly after deployment:

Wayne in particular will be interested to note that the dotted lines at the left show maximum and minimum air temperature over the preceding 24 hour period. The thermistor 1 reading is now in column 2.

At around -16 degrees Celsius things have warmed up considerably near the Pole recently.
 Susan Anderson commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb09906fac970d 2017-04-14T06:04:34Z 2017-04-14T06:04:40Z Susan Anderson http://profile.typepad.com/susananderson3 Thanks Hans Gunnstaddar for the excellent link you provided for Jim Hunt; NASA's Michelle Thaller is indeed a pleasure to...
Thanks Hans Gunnstaddar for the excellent link you provided for Jim Hunt; NASA's  Michelle Thaller is indeed a pleasure to watch:

"In today's world of deniers, false news, and a desperate need to address climate change, emotional irrelevance is a luxury we can no longer afford."
 --
 Here's a very fine photo collection of Arctic melt:  Arctic ice in retreat: NASA's airborne survey shows how global warming is transforming the Arctic by Andrew Freedman.
 Hans Gunnstaddar commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b8d2771505970c 2017-04-12T18:35:12Z 2017-04-12T18:35:17Z Hans Gunnstaddar http://profile.typepad.com/6p017c3855e0da970b As most of us know worldwide emissions have been reported to have gone down in recent years, even though CO2...
As most of us know worldwide emissions have been reported to have gone down in recent years, even though CO2 rise is increasing, however from rwL's linked article is this:

"Fossil fuel CO2 might be increasing. The IEA numbers might be wrong. They rely on nations to accurately report their fossil fuel use. Not all of them do, especially when it comes to burning their own coal supplies. In fact, the lack of a system to accurately verify national CO2 claims was a key issue in the Paris Climate Accord discussions. The worry is that as nations face increasing pressure and scrutiny around their CO2, the incentives to cook the books will increase. Incorrect accounting of just one percent globally could switch the storyline from "hopeful plateau" to "continuing acceleration". The IEA devotes two chapters of their "CO2 Emissions from Fuel Combustion" report to the various issues impacting data accuracy."

 James S. commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b7c8ec4fb2970b 2017-04-11T16:51:05Z 2017-04-11T16:51:06Z James S. http://profile.typepad.com/6p01b7c8ab859c970b The journal article is behind a paywall, but I saw this news article and thought it would be of interest...
The journal article is behind a paywall, but I saw this news article and thought it would be of interest to folks here.
 http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/04/warm-atlantic-waters-wage-new-assault-arctic-ice-below

Also, thank you Neven for your posts and the aggregation of data sites under the ASI graphs link!
 r w Langford commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b8d2769ff8970c 2017-04-11T15:52:31Z 2017-04-11T15:52:33Z r w Langford http://profile.typepad.com/rwlangford Here is an amazing article that presents information and interpretation of CO2 data in way that is startling and frightening....
Here is an amazing article that presents information and interpretation of CO2 data in way that is startling and frightening. Much other global CO2 information understates actual atmospheric levels because of intentionally understated country emissions. The graphs presented are the best I know of.
 http://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/04/10/opinion/atmospheric-co2-levels-accelerate-upwards-smashing-records
 NeilT commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb098f5e99970d 2017-04-11T14:28:48Z 2017-04-11T14:33:29Z NeilT http://profile.typepad.com/thomasne I must admit I used to say that we had to be careful what we said as the denialists would...
I must admit I used to say that we had to be careful what we said as the denialists would just use our own words to make their arguments.

But, as time has gone on and denialists have lost argument after argument, in the face of ever impending catastrophe, I just don't care what they say any more. If they can't find something you have said to throw at the uncaring, they'll just make it up anyway.

Things are so much worse than even the worst predictions, that any level of histrionics has it's place.

Personally my view is we're already screwed and people don't care enough (yet), to even try and put it right.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't try and we should not raise awareness. Just that I've reached my BS tolerance and am into personal mitigation for me and my family rather than trying to prove the evident to people who don't want to know.
 Neven commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b8d27695fe970c 2017-04-11T14:05:25Z 2017-04-11T14:05:29Z Neven http://profile.typepad.com/neven1 Elisee, first of all, your brush is too broad. This isn't some homogeneous organisation where image can be controlled through...
Elisee, first of all, your brush is too broad. This isn't some homogeneous organisation where image can be controlled through hierarchical systems of decision-making. Even though they are bound by a shared concern about the potential consequences of Arctic sea ice loss (and AGW in general), the visitors of this blog and the Arctic Sea Ice Forum are as diverse as can be. Some are alarmist, others are conservative, and so on.

Secondly, climate risk deniers who are only interested in deceiving their fellow human beings, will always be able to find some exaggerated quote by some guy. I mean, over 10 years ago some ex-scientist said that there would come a time when British children will never see snow again. This meme is trotted out every winter, and projected onto the entire scientific community and the IPCC. If we are going to worry about that, we might as well stop talking (which is the whole idea, of course).

Let them do the lying and misleading, while we each individually try to analyse and speculate about Arctic sea ice loss as honestly as we can. And let the reader judge for him/herself how trustworthy, credible, interesting it is what he/she reads on this blog and the forum.

And last but not least, what you're engaging in here, is pure concern trolling. And if there's something I dislike more than climate risk denial, it's that. By your own logic you are providing fodder to climate risk deniers ("one guy tried to warn the stupid alarmist watermelons, but noooo, they wouldn't listen and announced the end of the world in every single sentence they wrote"). So don't do it again and take your concerns elsewhere.

Thanks.
 wayne commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b8d2769248970c 2017-04-11T13:14:48Z 2017-04-11T13:14:51Z wayne http://profile.typepad.com/6p017c31916995970b Hola Elisee Science needs be practiced to be valid, denialists are shooting blanks and hitting the lay already unconvinced. If...
Hola Elisee

 Science needs be practiced to be valid, denialists are shooting blanks and hitting the lay already unconvinced. If 2012 minima record is not broken, it will be because the clouds did their usual job, or because cyclones came and stayed the entire summer. What fake skeptics miss, and they usually are willfully blind, is that we are at all time low records now, don't have to wait till mid September, and most days are at all time low records, the only thing high is the heat, all time warmest winter by a huge margin. The only other thing high are the fake propagandists who think they know science.
 Elisee Reclus commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb098f55a1970d 2017-04-11T12:59:31Z 2017-04-11T12:59:33Z Elisee Reclus http://profile.typepad.com/6p01b7c8bac71d970b Don't get me wrong, I am completely convinced that the climate emergency we all see unfolding in the Arctic is...
Don't get me wrong, I am completely convinced that the climate emergency we all see unfolding in the Arctic is real, and potentially catastrophic. Still, I can't help but notice in our comments and in our constant scrutiny and analysis of the data a certain note of frantic desperation--we seem to be trying to convince ourselves--we're cherry-picking, and we're crying "wolf".

Looking at all this from a purely public persuasion/propaganda perspective, (which now, is about the only point of view that really matters) a troubling thought occurs to me.

No matter how badly the Arctic ice volume, area and extent is diminished this summer, if it doesn't shatter the 2012 record the denialist community is going to seize on our concern as irresponsible alarmism. Or worse, they will simply declare the failure of the 2012 low-ice records to fall as evidence of the Arctic ice's "recovery".

I really don't know what to do about this, but I thought you all really need to understand how you appear to an outsider, even one who is not hostile to your message.
 wayne commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b8d2769113970c 2017-04-11T12:56:19Z 2017-04-11T12:56:23Z wayne http://profile.typepad.com/6p017c31916995970b Jim, I am sure the base management of this team heading towards the Pole reads Neven's blog. Since they are...
Jim,

 I am sure the base management of this team heading towards the Pole reads Neven's blog.

 Since they are measuring things, I would suggest 2 , the 2 meter surface temperature and top of snow, 1 cm below the hard skin, a subdermal temp, in the shade from the sun. Usually in the shadow of a hummock or slightly ridged sea ice. Let's see if we can get some interesting data....
 Paddy commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b7c8ec26dd970b 2017-04-11T06:15:06Z 2017-04-11T06:15:11Z Paddy http://profile.typepad.com/6p01774451938e970d *lower albedo (not yet had my morning coffee)
*lower albedo (not yet had my morning coffee)
 Paddy commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb098f3df6970d 2017-04-11T06:14:26Z 2017-04-11T06:15:11Z Paddy http://profile.typepad.com/6p01774451938e970d @Abbottisgone, Doh! Yes, lower thinness. @DCS, I think a new low minimum volume is a very strong probability at this...
@Abbottisgone,

Doh! Yes, lower thinness.

@DCS,

I think a new low minimum volume is a very strong probability at this point. The question is how low.
 Rob Dekker commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b8d2767777970c 2017-04-11T04:18:54Z 2017-04-11T04:18:55Z Rob Dekker http://profile.typepad.com/rob55 DCS, I agree. The PIOMAS volume numbers are running so low this year, that it is almost scary. The extrapolation...
DCS, I agree.
 The PIOMAS volume numbers are running so low this year, that it is almost scary.
 The extrapolation of 'volume' by PIOMAS hits ground zero much earlier than the extrapolation of 'extent' of sea ice.
 So I guess this year we will know if summer heat melts 'volume' or if it melts 'extent'.
 Hans Gunnstaddar commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b7c8ebfba8970b 2017-04-10T20:41:21Z 2017-04-10T20:41:25Z Hans Gunnstaddar http://profile.typepad.com/6p017c3855e0da970b https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsuTsc3RmcI Jim Hunt, that's a link to a conference in which Michelle Thaller of NASA talks about denialism and it's...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsuTsc3RmcI

Jim Hunt, that's a link to a conference in which Michelle Thaller of NASA talks about denialism and it's very good. I know your often battling GW denial, so thought it might help.
 D_C_S commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b7c8ebe4f8970b 2017-04-10T17:37:11Z 2017-04-10T17:37:11Z D_C_S http://profile.typepad.com/6p019b00aafb8b970c People sometimes ask me what surprises me most about climate change. I haven't had an answer for them because I...
People sometimes ask me what surprises me most about climate change. I haven't had an answer for them because I haven't been surprised by anything about climate change, until now. I'm surprised by how much arctic sea ice has deteriorated since 5 years ago when I started following it. I'm hoping against a new record minimum volume this year.
 wayne commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b7c8ebc823970b 2017-04-10T13:01:16Z 2017-04-10T13:01:18Z wayne http://profile.typepad.com/6p017c31916995970b Jim And the result for all this time an effort is seen on your second picture, lots of snow! -41...
Jim

 And the result for all this time an effort is seen on your second picture,
 lots of snow! -41 C with wind chill? The 1 or 2 degree trips are very good ideas as long as the Pole is open, spasibo!
 Jim Hunt commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b7c8eb6260970b 2017-04-09T10:47:14Z 2017-04-09T10:47:16Z Jim Hunt http://profile.typepad.com/jim_hunt In view of the current PIOMAS/CryoSat-2 debate it seems pertinent to point out that there are people out on the...
In view of the current PIOMAS/CryoSat-2 debate it seems pertinent to point out that there are people out on the sea ice as we speak measuring the depth of snow cover near the North Pole:

"The 2 Degrees North Pole Expedition"

This from Bernice Notenboom:

The sleds weigh over 80 kilos and new pains and aches show unexpectedly in places you don't want them, like my back. On the odd break, I would get the notebook out, jot down the GPS position while Ann pokes into the snow and yells the various snow depths to me. The rest of the day we are doing cold management: toes we don't feel anymore and need nurturing or placing your thumb between the fingers to warm them up inside your mitt, and worse letting your arm hang so the blood can race back to the extremities.

 Bill Fothergill commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b8d275c209970c 2017-04-09T10:25:08Z 2017-04-09T10:25:09Z Bill Fothergill http://profile.typepad.com/billfothergill Rob, The argument I posited can, of course, operate in the opposite sense. In the example I gave using a...
Rob,
 The argument I posited can, of course, operate in the opposite sense.

In the example I gave using a floe which was 5 grid cells in width, the monthly extent would register as 27 grid cell units, despite the fact that the actual size of the floe was 5 units. Consider what would happen in the example I gave if the width of the floe was 4 grid cell units rather than 5.

Day 01: XXXXOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO OOOOO
 Day 02: OXXXXOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO OOOOO
 .
 .
 Day 30: OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOX XXXOO
 Day 31: OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO XXXXO

Under that scenario, the NSIDC monthly averaging technique would register no cell with occupancy greater than ~ 13%, and would consequently assign an overall zero value for the month.

However, owing to the inherent asymmetry caused by the 15% selection rule, the over-estimates and under-estimates will not simply tend to cancel each other out.

The first example I gave caused an over-estimate of 22 grid cell units, whereas the second only introduced an under-estimate of 4 units.
 Rob Dekker commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb098e7ec8970d 2017-04-09T07:29:34Z 2017-04-09T07:29:37Z Rob Dekker http://profile.typepad.com/rob55 Bill, regarding this finding : 250/4640 = 0.053879 340/6310 = 0.053883 That IS "bloody spooky"....
Bill, regarding this finding :

 250/4640 = 0.053879
 340/6310 = 0.053883

 That IS "bloody spooky"....
 Rob Dekker commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb098e7de2970d 2017-04-09T06:52:04Z 2017-04-09T06:52:10Z Rob Dekker http://profile.typepad.com/rob55 Bill, thank you for pointing out that a floe can more than quadruple its presence on the NSIDC monthly average...
Bill, thank you for pointing out that a floe can more than quadruple its presence on the NSIDC monthly average simply by moving around.
 That is on top of the sensitivity to timing of refreezes and melts.
 All in all, this makes NSIDC's current method rather sensitive to events that have no relevance to sea ice extent or area.

It looks like they are at the point of making a change considering the comment that Al posted above :

The dataset is now clearly the most popular product we have due to our blog-style publication and thus changes will be made after considering any impact to the community

 With us here being part of the community, what do other people here think ?
 Should NSIDC change their method of calculating the NSIDC monthly average (to simply taking the average of daily numbers over the month) ?
 wayne commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b8d2759d76970c 2017-04-08T20:28:41Z 2017-04-08T21:29:20Z wayne http://profile.typepad.com/6p017c31916995970b ......Warmest winter in Arctic history does not make for deeper refreezing starting earlier than usual.
......Warmest winter in Arctic history does not make for deeper refreezing starting earlier than usual.
 wayne commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb098e5bd1970d 2017-04-08T20:23:59Z 2017-04-08T20:24:02Z wayne http://profile.typepad.com/6p017c31916995970b Current Arctic Sea ice is breaking up like it is in July: http://eh2r.blogspot.ca/2017/04/astounding-sea-ice-velocities-suggest.html There was in fact, no rapid consolidated...
Current Arctic Sea ice is breaking up like it is in July:

http://eh2r.blogspot.ca/2017/04/astounding-sea-ice-velocities-suggest.html

 There was in fact, no rapid consolidated refreeze, but continuous chaos, like sea ice pack was molecules in a just starting microwave, the ice moves in a higher degree of kinetic energy only stopping when the energy is exhausted (by deep cooling). This does not happen when there has been a prolonged refreeze caused by a incredible warming .
 wayne commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b8d2759673970c 2017-04-08T18:19:19Z 2017-04-08T18:19:21Z wayne http://profile.typepad.com/6p017c31916995970b A "rapid refreeze" at 2016 minima, is a total numerically driven misconception giving a cognitive optical illusion , it did...
A "rapid refreeze" at 2016 minima, is a total numerically driven misconception giving a cognitive optical illusion , it did not happen. Since the weather which followed heavily favored an influx of continuous Cyclones which have created the record warmest Arctic Ocean winter in history, there was always a greater deal of open water than our measurement methods permit to realize. Suggesting that there was a rapid refreeze has no climate data (judged by months) , to back it. A sudden rapid freeze up of a huge area, say Siberia, gives very High pressure Anticyclones greatly amplified by the radiation escaping to space in darkness, which is what Anticyclone do in darkness. Same happens over the Arctic Ocean, a rapid freeze up of a huge area, like Hudson Bay suddenly and drastically changes the weather of its entire surroundings, even the circulation pattern of the Polar vortex.

 One may say whatever they want to say about anything, but I prefer correct interpretations. Observation perfection is very alluring, since it explains reality.
 Bill Fothergill commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b7c8eb2862970b 2017-04-08T15:29:15Z 2017-04-08T15:29:19Z Bill Fothergill http://profile.typepad.com/billfothergill Typo alert: The grid cell layout in the comment above should read... Day 01 Day 02 . . Day 30...
Typo alert:

The grid cell layout in the comment above should read...

Day 01
 Day 02
 .
 .
 Day 30 (NOT 31!)
 Day 31

Once again, I would just like to say "D'oh!".
 Bill Fothergill commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b7c8eb2667970b 2017-04-08T14:52:21Z 2017-04-08T14:52:23Z Bill Fothergill http://profile.typepad.com/billfothergill @ Rob "... in as far as you[r] floe does not reduce the ice concentration in the pixel it left...
@ Rob
 "... in as far as you[r] floe does not reduce the ice concentration in the pixel it left behind below 15% ..."

Yes, that's precisely what I meant when I used the term "edging effect". Unfortunately, I entirely failed to explain what I meant by this term. {D'oh!}

Exactly the same condition applies at the leading edge as one approaches the month end. Perhaps I can explain best by means of an example.

Consider a floe which is 5 grid cells wide in the E - W direction, and one grid cell in length measuring N - S. Imagine that this cell drifts (say) west to east at a rate of one grid cell/day, and that the 30 grid cells to the east are clear of ice.

Using an "X" to indicate ice, and an "O" for open water, in a 31-day month, these 35 grid cells would appear as follows...

Day 01: XXXXXOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO OOOOO
 Day 02: OXXXXXOOOO OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO OOOOO
 .
 .
 Day 31: OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOX XXXXO
 Day 31: OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO XXXXX

Numbering these cells 1-35 from left to right, the percentage occupancy reads...

Cells 1 & 35 ~3%
 Cells 2 & 34 ~6%
 Cells 3 & 33 ~10%
 Cells 4 & 32 ~13%

Cells 5-31 (inc) ~16%

Under these, admittedly extreme, conditions, the floe - which has a grid cell size of 5 units - would rack up 27 units in terms of the monthly extent, as cells 5-31 are ice-covered for >15%.

.....

Regarding the Stnd Devs of your residuals (250k km^2 for SIA versus 340k km^2 for SIE), there is an intriguing equality which can pop out of the numbers.

Using NSIDC monthly values, the 1979-2016 grand averages for September SIA and SIE are 4.64 million km^2 and 6.31 million km^2 respectively.

When I'm looking at SDs for different sized objects, I usually do an informal normalisation by dividing each SD by the arithmetic mean size of the relevant object.

250/4640 = 0.053879
 340/6310 = 0.053883

I expected the "normalisation" to produce a closer result, but that's just bloody spooky.
 Rob Dekker commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb098e32aa970d 2017-04-08T08:04:32Z 2017-04-08T08:04:37Z Rob Dekker http://profile.typepad.com/rob55 Thanks Bill, interesting example. I think that in as far as you floe does not reduce the ice concentration in...
Thanks Bill, interesting example.
 I think that in as far as you floe does not reduce the ice concentration in the pixel it left behind below 15%, you are correct.
 Either way, the sensitivity to timing of refreeze and melt in any pixel in the NSIDC ice concentration maps, makes the NSIDC monthly average numbers less consistent and less predictable.

For example, in my SIPN entries, I found that Sept SIA is more accurately predictable (SD of residuals about 250 k km^2) in June than is NSIDC's SIE number (SD of residuals about 340 k km^2).
 Bill Fothergill commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b7c8eb11e4970b 2017-04-08T07:39:34Z 2017-04-08T07:39:37Z Bill Fothergill http://profile.typepad.com/billfothergill @ Al & Rob One of the ways in which this "boost" can be boosted is with increased mobility of...
@ Al & Rob

One of the ways in which this "boost" can be boosted is with increased mobility of the ice - which is exactly what we are experiencing.

Imagine a largish floe which is being merrily transported along in a vaguely continuous fashion, but is neither melting nor growing. Now consider what happens if the transport rate is such that the trailing end of the floe reaches the position previously occupied by the leading edge, but about 5 or 6 days later.

Over the course of a month, the swathe path covered by such a moving floe would be approximately 5 or 6 times the actual dimensions of the floe itself. However, using the NSIDC monthly averaging technique, the entire swathe path would be classified as ice-covered extent, as (apart from edging effect) each grid cell would have been covered for the requisite time.

Under such conditions, the monthly extent clocked up for the floe would therefore be approximately 5 or 6 times the actual size of said floe.

Obviously, the transport rate chosen for the above example represents a worst-case scenario. Nonetheless, it would be easy for a slower-moving floe to drift over a swathe path which considerably exceeds its own dimensions. Consequently, under the existing NSIDC averaging technique, it would be the swathe path dimension which gets included in the overall monthly average, rather than the actual floe dimension.
 Rob Dekker commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b7c8eb10be970b 2017-04-08T07:13:18Z 2017-04-08T07:13:21Z Rob Dekker http://profile.typepad.com/rob55 Neven wrote Now, the average of total melt for the past 10 years is 18269 km3, which means that at...
Neven wrote

Now, the average of total melt for the past 10 years is 18269 km3, which means that at the end of this year's melting season the minimum could be only 2526 km3 (the lowest minimum on record reached in 2012 was 3673 km3).

 That is just scary.
 And I don't even want to think about the sentence you wrote after that.

 Rob Dekker commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b8d2756f79970c 2017-04-08T07:00:38Z 2017-04-08T07:00:42Z Rob Dekker http://profile.typepad.com/rob55 Al Rogers, thank you for explaining the NSIDC SIE numbers in detail. Last year September, there was a very significant...
Al Rogers, thank you for explaining the NSIDC SIE numbers in detail.
 Last year September, there was a very significant 'boost' exactly because of the way NSIDC calculates their monthly average numbers

http://neven1.typepad.com/blog/2016/09/asi-2016-update-7-minimum-time.html?cid=6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb093f1ecb970d#comment-6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb093f1ecb970d

As a result of the NSIDC monthly method you describe, the last week rapid refreeze in September caused NSIDC's Sept 2016 to end up at 5th place at 4.72 , while calculation methods using JAXA or NSIDC average over Sept daily numbers would have put Sept average at 3rd place (at about 4.4 or 4.5 M km^2).

Because of the odd way in which NSIDC calculates the SIE monthly numbers, it is quite sensitive to sudden jumps in refreezing or melting, which makes the number less predictable.

Which also makes it harder to 'predict' that number in the entries for SIPN.
 Yvan Dutil commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b8d2753e51970c 2017-04-07T17:57:06Z 2017-04-07T17:57:11Z Yvan Dutil http://profile.typepad.com/dutil Myabe it is time to revisit the Maslowski prediction. 80% from 1979 volume is likely to be reached this year....
Myabe it is time to revisit the Maslowski prediction. 80% from 1979 volume is likely to be reached this year. This would vindicate is prediction.
 Cato Uticensis commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b8d275349d970c 2017-04-07T16:14:49Z 2017-04-07T16:15:02Z Cato Uticensis http://profile.typepad.com/6p01b7c7cf845c970b Thanks Neven, clear as usual. Transport from the Fram has been considerable in the last few weeks, and the Beaufort+...
Thanks Neven, clear as usual. Transport from the Fram has been considerable in the last few weeks, and the Beaufort+ won't be at all beneficial from this point of view I guess...
 Neven commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb098decfe970d 2017-04-07T14:15:47Z 2017-04-07T14:15:51Z Neven http://profile.typepad.com/neven1 When does this normally happen? This switch of HP from "icing agent" to "melting agent"? By mid April, more or...
When does this normally happen? This switch of HP from "icing agent" to "melting agent"? By mid April, more or less? And the melting ponds? When are they starting to form?

Cato, it also depends on the latitude, of course. Melt ponds mostly start forming in May, as far as I know, but really get going in June. This also depends on melt onset, which in turn depends on downwelling longwave radiation (ie when it is cloudy).

When a high pressure forms over the Beaufort Sea and stays there for a while (as suggested by current forecasts), at this time of year, it can pull ice away from the Canadian/Alaskan coasts. This open water may not freeze over again and give the melting season in that region an early boost, especially this year as it's mostly first-year ice (no MYI barrier after last year's melt).

And of course, it will cause export of thicker ice through Fram Strait.
 Al Rodger commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb098deb05970d 2017-04-07T13:54:38Z 2017-04-07T13:55:07Z Al Rodger http://profile.typepad.com/alrodger I have gained a bit of learning about the NSIDC monthly SIE data. This resulted from some unwarranted criticism from...
I have gained a bit of learning about the NSIDC monthly SIE data. This resulted from some unwarranted criticism from me towards the NSIDC Arctic Sea Ice News bulletin covering the December SIE numbers.

(Likely some, maybe many, are already familiar with the issue I now explain, so my apologies for this lengthy whitter if you are already in the know.)

The daily trace of SIE (eg see ChaArctic with 'Show all') shows December 2016 continually tracking below all other years. So when the monthly figure for December was posted by NSIDC as a smidgen higher that the 2010 value (which remained 'lowest December on record') I assumed this had to be a mistake.
 It turns out, after some enquiries with NSIDC that the December SIE figure was actually correct.

The NSIDC communique explained how a set of lower daily values could yields a larger monthly SIE with the following example (condensed down & editted a bit by me):-

Imagine one 10 x 10 km grid cell (100 sq km). [Call this 'cell X'] Over a 30-day month, it is covered by 100% on 5 days and the other 25 days it is ice free.
 AVERAGING DAILY DATA
 SIE 'cell X' = (5*100 sq km + 25*0)/30 = 16.67 sq km
 AVERAGING EACH CELL OVER FULL MONTH
 16.67 sq km > 15% x 100 sq km
 ∴ SIE 'cell X' = 100% = 100 sq km
 Thus for  'cell X' (and many others similarly), SIE can be 'boosted' by up to 85 sq km.

Of course, another way of seeing this is that daily sampling by using thirty-times more averaged data points is more accurate than the monthly cell sampling version, so the result will be closer to the actual Sea Ice Area. We are happy accepting SIA measures being smaller than SIE so an SIE calculated using daily data which will be more accurate, which will be more SIA-like, should yield a smaller value.

And using the daily rather than the a monthly data does almost always yield values smaller than the monthly cell SIE value. Examining the size of the 'boost' in SIE through using monthly cell data rather than averaging daily figures (and ignoring 1987 which has what looks like artifacts of the change in data sets) the size of the 'boost' does vary quite a lot through the year, smaller boosts during max & min ice, larger boosts during the melt/freeze seasons, particularly the freeze, and particularly October. There is also a lot of year-to-year noise which is of a similar order of magnitude as the boost.
 As a result of these 'boosts', the monthly cell SIE for December 2016 was boosted 620,000 sq km above the daily averages value while back in 2010, SIE was only boosted by 179,000 sq km, allowing 2010 to remain the Lowest December SIE using monthly cell data even though the daily trace for December 2016 was significantly lower than the 2010 daily trace for the entire month.

Within all the noise, there are also trends in the size of the 'boost' evident in some months which in a few months yield statistically significant linear trends. But because of all the noise and the wobbles in the daily SIE trace, the 'boost' doesn't exctly jump out at you. Thus, even the month with 'boosts' far larger than all other (October) which also has the most convincing trend (the October boost in the 1980s averaged 420k sq km, in the 2010s it is averaging 750k sq km), still has a lot of noise attached, its linear trend measuring +110,000sqkm/decade (+/-70,000sqkm -2sd)
 For the curious, here are the full-record average boost for each month (thousands of sq km), with the average for the last 10 years in brackets to give some indication of trends.
 Jan 130 (120),
 Feb 80 (60),
 Mar 90 (80),
 Apr 80 (70),
 May 100 (140),
 Jun 140 (210),
 Jul 250 (260),
 Aug 40 (90),
 Sep 90 (80),
 Oct 600 (770),
 Nov 280 (320),
 Dec 220 (270).
 ANNUAL 175 (210)
 (This 'boost' may well partly explain why my trace of 12-month average JAXA SIE graphed at MARCLIMATEGRAPHS sits 600,000sqkm below the NSIDC 12-month average – the JAXA trace being calculated from daily JAXA data and the NSIDC calculated by NSIDC from cell data averaged over the month.)

NOTE – The size etc of this 'boost' his can be compared with what we could call the SIA-to-SIE 'boost', the difference between SIA & SIE. The SIA-SIE 'boost' is far bigger, just as noisy, is more consistent through the year and has a stronger trend but in the opposite direction (ie reducing the difference -90,000sqkm/decade (+/-30,000sqkm -2sd)) with a visible acceleration in that reduction of annual average over the period. For comparison, here is the table above but calculated for SIE-SIA:-
 Jan 1,800 (1,600),
 Feb 1,900(1,600),
 Mar 1,900 (1,500),
 Apr 1,700 (1,500),
 May 1,800 (1,700),
 Jun 2,300 (2,300),
 Jul 2,800 (2,500),
 Aug 2,100 (1,800),
 Sep 1,600(1,200),
 Oct 2,000 (2,100),
 Nov 1,600 (1,400),
 Dec 1,800 (1,600).
 ANNUAL 1,900 (1,700)

And with all that, NSIDC inform me:-

"We have received similar questions in the recent past about our December numbers, and the science leads have decided to switch the way in which the averaging is completed. The current method is really just a legacy way of doing things as the dataset's original intended purpose was to simply produce coarse resolution figures (c.a. 2007) on a monthly interval for our site. The dataset is now clearly the most popular product we have due to our blog-style publication and thus changes will be made after considering any impact to the community."

 So the 'boost' to SIE monthly numbers due to averaging grids over the month rather than averaging daily SIE, that boost may soon be a thing of the past for the headline monthly SIE.
 Cato Uticensis commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b8d2751585970c 2017-04-07T10:30:48Z 2017-04-07T10:30:50Z Cato Uticensis http://profile.typepad.com/6p01b7c7cf845c970b Hi folks and hi Neven, quite a long time since my last time here, and here we are, keeping "going...
Hi folks and hi Neven, quite a long time since my last time here, and here we are, keeping "going down", springsteen would sing.

I have a question for Neven: good sense suggests that we're getting closer to the moment when the persistence of a high-pressure pattern over the Arctic is more detrimental to the ice than favourable. Currently HP is still associated with relatively low temperatures but I expect that in the next week the story will be much different.

When does this normally happen? This switch of HP from "icing agent" to "melting agent"? By mid April, more or less? And the melting ponds? When are they starting to form?

Thanks a lot, and I keep the chance to thank you once more for the fantastic work you do with this blog.
 AbbottisGone commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b8d274fabd970c 2017-04-07T03:29:20Z 2017-04-07T03:29:24Z AbbottisGone http://profile.typepad.com/abbottisgone Paddy, don't you mean lower albedo from thinness?
Paddy, don't you mean lower albedo from thinness?
 AbbottisGone commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb098dbf3f970d 2017-04-07T03:23:44Z 2017-04-07T03:23:48Z AbbottisGone http://profile.typepad.com/abbottisgone Is the atmosphere measurably getting thicker at the Arctic because of all this advection?
Is the atmosphere measurably getting thicker at the Arctic because of all this advection?
 Robert S commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b7c8ea96bc970b 2017-04-07T00:07:54Z 2017-04-07T00:07:56Z Robert S http://profile.typepad.com/6p0192ac4c46c4970d This should be an interesting project to map long term ice trends in the arctic from Inuit traditional knowledge: http://www.rcinet.ca/en/2017/04/04/canadian-ngo-wins-google-750k-grant-to-map-changing-sea-ice-using-traditional-inuit-knowledge/
This should be an interesting project to map long term ice trends in the arctic from Inuit traditional knowledge: http://www.rcinet.ca/en/2017/04/04/canadian-ngo-wins-google-750k-grant-to-map-changing-sea-ice-using-traditional-inuit-knowledge/
 subgeometer commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b8d274ecba970c 2017-04-06T23:46:16Z 2017-04-06T23:46:19Z subgeometer http://profile.typepad.com/nameoflibertyblogspotcom Huge amounts of ice have been exported via all the exits and continue to be as the pack is unprecedently...
Huge amounts of ice have been exported via all the exits and continue to be as the pack is unprecedently mobile - this must play a part in the slow volume increase on top of the other factors(eg SSTs and atmospheric warmth), and doesn't augur well - just how open will the Atlantic front get by September.

I can't imagine anything but a record min for volume
 Paddy commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb098d9071970d 2017-04-06T17:07:58Z 2017-04-06T17:08:04Z Paddy http://profile.typepad.com/6p01774451938e970d I wonder to what extent we can expect positive feedback, and whether 20800km3 or so will prove significantly more vulnerable...
I wonder to what extent we can expect positive feedback, and whether 20800km3 or so will prove significantly more vulnerable than the previous maxima of over 22000 km3. If it's thin enough to melt out earlier with higher albedo and more holes / exposed edges, we could see a very low minimum indeed this year.
 Bill Fothergill commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b8d2746cbf970c 2017-04-05T19:08:08Z 2017-04-05T19:08:11Z Bill Fothergill http://profile.typepad.com/billfothergill There is an old saying about "pictures speaking louder than words". I can think of many examples to back this...
There is an old saying about "pictures speaking louder than words". I can think of many examples to back this up, but undoubtedly one of the best can be found amongst Jim Pettit's plethora of PIOMAS representations.

http://iwantsomeproof.com/extimg/siv_annual_max_loss_and_ice_remaining.png

@ Neven - given Jim's OK to utilise his material, I think that would be an excellent candidate for inclusion in future PIOMAS updates
 DavidR commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b8d274574a970c 2017-04-05T15:32:43Z 2017-04-05T15:32:49Z DavidR http://profile.typepad.com/6p01901d678e81970b None of this looks good and the ESRL temperature figures for March put 2017 as the hottest on record for...
None of this looks good and the ESRL temperature figures for March put 2017 as the hottest on record for the Arctic for both SST and 2m Air temperatures.

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/cgi-bin/data/timeseries/timeseries1.pl

That all suggests everything is primed for a larger tather than a smaller melt. The lowest volume on record is clearly an option and with two of the past 7 years losing 19.5K a figure below 1.5 K km^3 is quite possible at the minimum. The hyperbolic trend on the remaining volume indicates an annuial loss over 400 Km^3 per year and a total wipeout withing 6 years. Anything is possible.
 iceman commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01b7c8e9ede7970b 2017-04-05T13:33:35Z 2017-04-05T13:33:40Z iceman http://profile.typepad.com/6p0177441f5c92970d The nearly-unchanged anomaly is bad, the flattening thickness graph is worse, and the spatial distribution - if PIOMAS is even...
The nearly-unchanged anomaly is bad, the flattening thickness graph is worse, and the spatial distribution - if PIOMAS is even approximately correct - is terrible.
 Rascal Dog commented on 'PIOMAS April 2017' tag:typepad.com,2003:6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb098d0e2f970d 2017-04-05T13:32:17Z 2017-04-05T13:32:20Z Rascal Dog http://profile.typepad.com/d105628636045612813 Based on the current day 90 ice volume from PIOMAS, and the median delta between day 90 and the minimum,...
Based on the current day 90 ice volume from PIOMAS, and the median delta between day 90 and the minimum, things are very slightly better. Median - 3 SD is 0.262 10^ km^3, more than twice last month's projected minimum of 0.113 *10^3 km^3

3 SD is roughly 1 chance in a 100 below the trend lines.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/ZThqQ5G.png[/img]


text:
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This post has been moved.
Interesting! Over 2000 moderators invited to join a hangout event today at 1pm PST and not 1 showed up? Does this mean that nobody was available at 1pm today, or that invitations were not sent, or moderators don't like to hangout, or something else? Maybe I am missing something, but I think a unique feature of Google Plus is Hangouts and the live, interaction that occurs in conversation. Posting links, a few comments, perhaps a 1+ in place of a "Like" into an RSS, stream of posts seems so, um, how shall I say, a... Facebookie
no plus ones
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- 29 comments
Dydan WatersYesterday 3:43 PM+1
I did not get an invite. Even if I had, 1pm is smack in the middle of my work day and I can't do a Hangout then.
Joshua SoderlingYesterday 3:44 PM+1
did not get one
john sawyerYesterday 3:45 PM+1
At 1 pm PST I was not here.
Péter KovácsYesterday 3:56 PM (edited)+1
Perhaps, the agenda wasn't interesting enough? (I have little [practically no] experience with hangouts...do you have to specify an agenda or are they anonymous sessions?)
Rob PerhamusYesterday 3:53 PM
Thanks all above, apparently when you think you are sending out an invitation to an event and a hangout, those invitations do not actually go out to the members of a community? And thanks Peter, the agenda for this hangout was about how moderators use hangouts and events. All of your comments are appreciated, thanks and keep them coming
Helena KYesterday 3:54 PM+1
Never received invite.
hubzeYesterday 3:54 PM+1
Well there are some issues with that because we found last night that you just cannot invite people unless those people have YOU in their circles. Not sure how you set it up, but that is what happened to us last night...
Rand WilsonYesterday 4:07 PM+4
First on the agenda should be: How to send invites in a community for a Hangout..
Rob PerhamusYesterday 4:18 PM+1
+hubze Thanks hubze, you have clarified something for me. Although I may think that I am inviting all members of a community I belong to, only those members who have me in their circles are actually invited. Haha, I just repeate what you said in the first place.
Rob PerhamusYesterday 4:21 PM
+Rand Wilson Thanks Rand, I agree and +hubse pointed out the first issue above.
Rob PerhamusYesterday 4:43 PM+1
+hubze And, to your point above, I do not have any moderators from this community that follow me, so no invitations went out to anyone... Thanks! Lesson learned! Has anyone created share-able circles of community moderators, that are also members of this community?
john sawyerYesterday 4:47 PM+1
As we are discussing this I notice that a hangout is being held now in the community with an invitation to hang out and I have neither participant in my circles.
Rob PerhamusYesterday 5:08 PM
+john sawyer I do not show a hangout going on now. The option is to start a new hangout. Do the people in the hangout have you in their circles as hubze was explaining above?
Wolf RevelsYesterday 5:12 PM
I was working, but I'm not much into hangouts either.
Brian GlickYesterday 5:14 PM (edited)+3
If a community is large, invites and notifications for new events don't go out to all members; we do this to help prevent spam. But the event will show up in the Events list on the right hand side column of the community. We're thinking of ways to make improvements here.
Mark PrinceYesterday 5:22 PM+1
No invite received, plus I am at work at that time, not appropriate for me to vid conference on a personal matter.
Andrew LedfordYesterday 5:23 PM+1
+Brian Glick how do we know which members it goes out to and how many invitations are sent?
Rob PerhamusYesterday 5:32 PM
+Andrew Ledford I like that question. For example, if there are 2000 in this community, how many and which of those 2000 will receive the invite? Is it 200? Which 200? Is it only those who have me in their circles, that are also members of this community. Thanks +Brian Glick And Brian, would you consider changing your profile pic? It looks a tad Zuckerburgish :)
Brian GlickYesterday 5:35 PM (edited)+2
+Andrew Ledford If you invite a community, every member of the community is "invited" and is eligible to respond / attend (e.g. by clicking on the event on the right hand side). Even in a smaller community, we don't share how many people are actually sent invites (e.g. an email), of course, since that varies based on your own personal settings.
One suggestion: You can always reshare an event to a community - that'll create a regular post in the community, which might help your event get more attention.
Hope that helps!
Andrew LedfordYesterday 5:40 PM
+Brian Glick okay thanks. if I send you a message though my profile will you read it. i have some concerns and didn't know if they should be in a public space. i need to get going so it would be later on tonight or tomorrow
Rob PerhamusYesterday 5:41 PM
+Mark Prince Thanks for commenting, confirming the no invite. And certainly I agree that people should not hangout when there is a conflict. I work with mostly international people from many time zones, so for example, if I started a hangout at 6am PST, it could be 6 pm, someplace else.
shirley williamsYesterday 5:55 PM+1
I did not know about it
Rob PerhamusYesterday 6:32 PM+1
+Brian Glick I am a little gun shy on creating an event if that means I would be sending out an invitation to 2000 people. However, I would create an event if members chose to go to the lower right, click on events that they were interested in and responded yes. Once the number of people that respond yes to attend the event reach 10, they would know the hangout event is full. I guess the other factor is the option chosen by the member with regards to setting notifications on or off. Is it possible to send out invitations for an event only to those who have opted to set community notifications to "On". I would hate to spam people with invitations to a community event, when they do not want to be notified, nor invited to attend and event.
Brian GlickYesterday 7:58 PM+1
+Rob Perhamus - if you invite a community with 2000+ people, they won't get invites; we deliberately don't send out invites to everyone in a community that large. So feel free to a) create an event (so it shows on the lower-right), and b) if you want, reshare that event to the community, thereby creating a post. :)
Logan FrankYesterday 9:58 PM
I did not get an invite.
Janettee McCraryYesterday 10:40 PM
I didn't see the invite... Also I wasn't available.
Damian Hoskin3:07 AM
nope no invites here
Rob Perhamus4:38 AM+1
+Logan Frank +Janettee McCrary +Damian Hoskin Thanks for feedback, see +Brian Glick posts above for explanations
Rob Perhamus8:16 AMReply
+Brian Glick Thanks for the tips, hoping I did it correctly. Dec 21, 2012
- Oh, so you can move posts now? I'm slightly confused.Dec 21, 2012
- +Amanda Fischer No, this was posted to the "Select a Topic" section so I wanted to move it to the general discussion section. Since we can't do that, I just reshared the post.Dec 21, 2012
- Oh, okay! Thanks for explaining!Dec 21, 2012
- If I was fortunate enough to be invited, I didn't get the invite itself.Dec 21, 2012
- Small side note:
I'm viewing this on my iPhone, and cannot read the reported comments, as anything that's too long "flickers" in and out of view while scrolling.
Also comments are less attractive, we can't +1 comments that were "copied", and I'm not automatically notified of new comments on this discussion...
I really would prefer topics not be "moved" until Google adds that option, because this is unwieldy and causes several issues for the community members.Dec 21, 2012
- +Janettee McCrary This is a one time only. All other posts in "Select a Topic" will be deleted.Dec 21, 2012
- Your answer confused me... Why only this one? Does that mean that my response caused you to agree, or was this particular conversation special somehow?Dec 21, 2012


text:
Tekken and Rock Band coming to iPhone
Both EA and Namco appear to be planning iPhone versions of their popular video game franchises - Rock Band and Tekken, respectively. Both games are in development, with Rock Band seeming to be the one that'll be appearing first.
Rock Band is already available on several mobile devices, but judging from a demo reel of EA Mobile's portfolio, spotted by CrunchGear, the game is firmly in the works with a video showing notes flowing down a fretboard and four plectrum-shaped buttons at the bottom for triggering them. It'll apparently have premium content downloadable, and four player multiplayer via Bluetooth.
Tekken for the iPhone, on the other hand, has been outed by Jonathan Kromray - Namco's head of its Apple Games division. Speaking to the Washington Post, he said: "If we can take Tekken and make it really fun to play on the iPhone, then we will. We do have a back catalogue of Japanese games that we're working on, as well as some new IP".
We'll keep you posted on the progress of both games as we get new information.
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Thursday, 20 April 2017 | MYT 11:14 PM
Norwegian Air's flights between the financial centres of London and Singapore will start at the end of September. - AFP pic
Tags / Keywords:
Norwegian Air Shuttle
AirAsia X
AirAsia X will fly to Europe soon
AirAsia X to get ground-handling services from Indonesia AirAsia
Intensifying competition in airline industry
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Decision time for UMW-OG
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Breakfast briefing: Friday, April 28
Malaysia's economy faces more headwinds to stay resilient
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Kerala, Andhra, Tamil Nadu and Karnataka are facing a severe drought this year, affecting many lives. Karnataka: Worst drought in decades The... ...http://www.rediff.com/news/report/parched-south-india-faces-biggest-water-crisis/20170410.htm
100 farmers from Tamil Nadu are camping out in Jantar Mantar demanding that the government take note of their plight. As the state faces a severe... ...http://www.sify.com/news/how-the-tamil-media-is-covering-farmers-protest-in-new-delhi-news-national-redk2tgicbjda.html
The Supreme Court today said it will commence on July 11 the final hearing of the appeals filed by Tamil Nadu, Karnataka and Kerala against the... ...http://www.deccanherald.com/content/602476/cauvery-water-dispute-sc-fixes.html
With successive droughts owing to below par rainfall and waterbodies having gone bone dry, the only option left before the government to address... ...http://www.deccanherald.com/content/602045/krishna-basin-taluks-starve-upper.html
Virajpet taluk has been staring at a severe water crisis in the coming months following a deficit in the south west as well as north east monsoon.... ...http://www.deccanherald.com/content/598973/severe-water-crisis-haunts-virajpet.html


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ARSENE WENGER has admitted that he does not have a 'Plan B' at Arsenal… But that is not down to a lack of preparation.
It is simply because the Frenchman says all of his Gunners squad are top-class performers who can impact their fortunes either from the start or bench.
Wenger was commenting on Olivier Giroud's impact from the bench during last week's 4-1 victory over Sunderland.
Keep up to date with ALL the Arsenal news, gossip, transfers and goals on our club page plus fixtures, results and live match commentary
The striker scored twice to help Arsenal claim another Premier League three points – but his boss insists he is a vital part of his first-team plans and is not considered a back-up option despite his role as sub.
Wenger said: "There is no Plan B in any squad, I never thought about my players like that.
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"The team who is the most effective for the next game, that's what you pick and I consider everyone as a regular player.
"That is basically what a manager thinks, what is [best] for the next game. If he is involved in the next game in your mind, he plays. If not then he doesn't start.
"He [Giroud] has shown he is a huge asset for the club and I have always supported him."
Wenger is spoilt for choice in the attacking department ahead of Sunday's North London derby against Tottenham.
And he is confident whoever he selects can make a vital contribution, whether that is from the start or off the bench.
Wenger added: "No matter who plays I have a squad of 25 players who are all top class and I think this game, a game of that stature, is not about 11 – it's about 25.
"Everybody is focused, everybody is ready to contribute and everybody's contribution will count on Sunday.
"We have shown that recently in the games, the players we have just spoken about, Giroud for example, he came on against Sunderland and made the difference. It just shows that everybody's contribution will be absolutely vital."


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Personal Statement
My experience is coupled with genuine concern for my patients. All of my staff is dedicated to your comfort and prompt attention as well....more
My experience is coupled with genuine concern for my patients. All of my staff is dedicated to your comfort and prompt attention as well.
More about Dr. Sunil Kumar
Dr. Sunil Kumar is a renowned Dentist in Mahipalpur, Delhi. He has had many happy patients in his 7 years of journey as a Dentist. He studied and completed BDS . He is currently associated with Kataria Dental Clinic in Mahipalpur, Delhi. Don't wait in a queue, book an instant appointment online with Dr. Sunil Kumar on Lybrate.com.
Lybrate.com has a nexus of the most experienced Dentists in India. You will find Dentists with more than 39 years of experience on Lybrate.com. You can find Dentists online in Delhi and from across India. View the profile of medical specialists and their reviews from other patients to make an informed decision.
Lybrate.com has a nexus of the most experienced Dentists in India. You will find Dentists with more than 39 years of experience on Lybrate.com. You can find Dentists online in Delhi and from across India. View the profile of medical specialists and their reviews from other patients to make an informed decision.
BDS - SGT Dental College - 2010
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Kataria Dental ClinicShpo Number B ,# 833 Main Chopal Road, Mahipalpur, New Delhi Get Directions
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Shared 1 year ago • Featured Tip
MDS - Oral & Maxillofacial Surgery, Fellow of Academy of General Education (FAGE), BDS
Dentist, Patna
Cleaning of teeth at a dental clinic is commonly called scaling. Our society has a very common misconception that it weakens the teeth. Its totally wrong. If it is done properly with the correct machine, it is going to make your teeth stronger and increase the life of your teeth. One should get their scaling done every 6 months.
Shared 1 year ago • Featured Tip
Dentist, Jamshedpur
22 years old female from Hyderabad asked
Tooth is broken coz of root canal treatment. And it is out of shape. How much will it cost to place new tooth. Its first molar right side down one.
Dentist, Jaipur
Hello Go for re RCT and it won't cost more but this totally depends upon Doctor and procedure followed.
56 years old male from Bongaigaon asked
permanent or fixed teeth is always a good replacement for missing teeth. removable teeth causes lot of problems comparatively to the fixed one. Always good to have fixed one by implant or crown and bridge prosthesis
20 years old male from Himatnagar asked
Dentist, Dhamtari
First of all you must avoid excess intake of beverages like tea, coffee, liqour, medicines in your diet. If your teeth have discoloured you must immediately rush to dentist for bleaching(whitening) of teeth. And if there is sensitivity, primarily you should change your toothpaste. Secondarily if sensitivity remains alive you must have artificial cap or cover on your teeth.
25 years old female from Bangalore asked
Is oral submucous fibrosis a lesion or a condition? How much percent chance has it to develop into oral cancer? Are there any permanent cures? Or preventive remedies?
Membership of the Royal College of Surgeons (MRCS), MS - General Surgery, MBBS
General Surgeon, Mohali
It is a condition. It has 1 percent chance of developing into oral cancer. If the patch is small you can get it surgically excised if not just keep a watchful eye on it. Preventive measures-treat an infected tooth near the lesion, decrease smoking, paan and alcohol.
21 years old male asked
Sir, I have found many problems with my tooths. Like sensitive problem, cavity. Cavity is also on my front tooth, am use pespodent, dabur red, anchor etc toothpaste but these were not stop these problem. Doctor says me the holls in tooth are recovered by fill something in holl in fixing way. Some people says, if am fill my holls which in tooths, I have face many problems in my future. Please help me and give good advice to me. Thank you.
No, not matmalo, please don't listen to people with no knowledge and listen to dr, who are dentist, please get all your teeth filled up, or else they will increase and will give you pain, and swelling in future and then you have to go for rct, of all those teeth for sensitivity, use sensoform paste twice in a day, for one month, stop the other paste for one month, use soft tooth brush, before sleeping, use a thin layer of paste on sensitive teeth, leave it overnight and brush in morning use fluoridated mouth wash twice in a day for one month.
Shared 2 years ago • Featured Tip
MDS Prosthodontics
Dentist, Akola
Unclean teeth are linked to heart problems and diabetes. Keep your Teeth healthy and clean.
year old male asked
Advanced Aesthetics, BDS
Dentist, Mumbai
Hi, there are various reasons for tooth pain. You need to visit to a dentist for a check-up and get some x-rays done to get exact cause and solution of your problem.
Shared 2 years ago • Featured Tip
BDS, Certification In Oral Implantology
Dentist, Ghaziabad
To maintain good oral hygiene, replace your tooth brush ater every three to four months.
Shared 1 year ago • Featured Tip
33 years old female from Mumbai asked
I read somewhere that while warm water n lemon juice is very good to Kickstart metabolism of body in the morning, it damages the teeth enamel. I have stopped drinking it due to this. Is this true?
Dentist, Udaipur
Yes, it can damage the enamel if taken in concentrated form. You can take lukewarm water with lemon daily. But do not brush immediately after taking lemon water. This can accelerate loss of enamel. It is better to brush in the morning first n thn take lemon water.
33 years old male asked
How to reduce numbness on teeth. please help me doctor as because of this I am not able to eat anything
Kindly get yourself checked by dentist as you might have swelling over your third or cavity on your teeth. The dentist would accordingly give you medications/treatment for the same. As per situation in your mouth.
24 years old male from Chandigarh asked
My teeth are yellowish in colour. Is there any alternative other than bleaching of teeth to make them natural white!
BDS, PG Diploma In PG Advance Course Of Oral Implantology On New Generation Implants, PGDHHM
Dentist, Gurgaon
hello if you are using power form or ayurvedic to clean your teeth. your teeth become more yellowish with time because powder is more abrasive it will wear outermost layer of tooth enamel. and tooth become more yellowish due to exposure of inner layer dentine which is more yellowish. So avoid vigorous brushing. bleaching can be done. Which can improve your tooth shade
38 years old male from Jabalpur asked
Hello doctor I feel some sensitivity in my teeth after morning brush I use regularly regularly I brush two times then I feel pain why.
Dentist, Kolar
This could b either due to sensitivity due to loss of enamel surface or due to decay of tooth. Tooth decay can b treated by filling of tooth or by rct n capping of the decay is deep. Sensitivity can b reduced by using desensitizing toothpaste such as senquelf or sensodyne toothpaste by rubbing some amount of toothpaste onto your tooth surface n wait till 5 mins before rinsing it off. Get your teeth evaluated by dentist to know the cause of your problem n get treated accordingly. Regsrds.
Shared 2 years ago • Featured Tip
M.D.( Pediatrics), DCH
Foods like peanuts, whole grapes, cherry tomatoes, carrots, hot dogs, meat sticks, or hard candies should be kept away from toddlers as they may have problem in chewing them. Give them mashed, cut and easily chew-able food.
22 years old male asked
MDS - Oral & Maxillofacial Surgery
Dentist, Chennai
A major cause of tooth sensitivity is root exposure. Kindly consult a dentist in person for further suggestion. We need more investigations (full mouth x-ray) to decide upon treatment. You may need cleaning along with desensitizing procedures and / or artificial enamel filling. Advance procedures can be done with laser too. You may consult me in person. Until then apply a desensitizing paste (sensodyne tooth paste) on the teeth. Wait for 10 to 15 min until you brush your teeth with the same paste. Applying it overnight will be better. Dental tips: - visit a dentist every six months for cleaning and a thorough dental check-up. Limit sugary food to avoid tooth decay. Gargle your mouth thoroughly after every meal. Scrub gently to clean your tongue with a tongue cleaner. Floss all your teeth inter dentally & brush twice daily, morning & night, up & down short vertical strokes, with ultra-soft bristles, indicator brush. Tooth brush to be changed every 2 months.
20 years old male asked
My teeth's are not in proper line. I need to fix it by straighting with the help of clips. How much it will cost and how long it would take?
Dentist, Mohali
For proper alignment of your teeth you need orthodontic treatment. For cost and time consult privately.
53 years old female asked
Suffering from bleeding gums at the time of paste. Tried lot of thing but not getting relief. Try various best toothpaste but no effect advice me.
You might have tartar/deposit on teeth. Kindly get it checked by dentist. You might need cleaning and polishing.
25 years old male from Gurgaon asked
I am 24years old, my tooth is paining while brushing and if I eat any cool items. What should I do to get rud of this problem.
There could be a carious tooth causing pain. Get it restored as soon as possible. Visit a dentist near you for thorough check up and treatment accordingly.
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