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MARRIAGE IS CIVIL RIGHT ( RITE) AS WELL AS RELIGIOUS SACRAMENTPosted Sunday, May 13, 2012, at 5:24 AM
Using tradition as justification for denying a basic human right is as antiquated as this style of text.
Selective use of biblical text from Leviticus while ignoring other parts of Leviticus makes about as much sense as using multiple fonts while writing a blog. It may be an eye catcher, but adds no substance. It simply serves as a distraction.
And while this may be catchy, it can grate on one's nerves.
The following link makes many points if one reads it with an open mind. Sadly an open mind is distained by many people. The lack of an open mind is what lead to slavery being tolerated for as long as it was, not to mention the economic benefit, as well as giving a certain group a false sense of superiority over other members of the human specie. This false sense of superiority has lead to many injustices in the past. It was but a short century ago that women gained the right to vote. It was only half a century ago that men and women of different races could legally marry in many states.
If tradition (that's how things have always been) were in fact a valid argument then we would be reciting the ORIGINAL pledge of allegiance, not the one we recite today. You know which version I'm referring to. The one that doesn't mention God.
While this isn't an exact quote, I think it gets the basic point across. The only function of government is to allow us to pursue our happiness. Courtesy of Buckshot. He got it half right. Part of the function of government is protect the rights of all of it's citizens, not the chosen few.
Showing comments in chronological order
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This link also points out the sad state of the human and political condition here in this country.
-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 5:58 AM
Mike, I am sick and tired of the party that is supposed to be about less government thinking it has the moral authority to stick it's nose in where it doesn't belong. Govern, don't dictate peoples personal life.
-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 8:38 AM
If marriage is so freaking sacred, outlaw DIVORCE!
-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 8:40 AM
Prayer in schools, Supreme Court
Ten Commandments, Supreme Court
School Lunches, Federal Money, Federal Rules
-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 10:00 AM
Just watch a documentary on Netflix called, "For the Bible told me So". The older preacher on there spells out why those who use the Bible to rationalize their fear and bigotry are just being ignorant. If one looks at the historical context of when those books of the Bible were written, one would see that the Fred Phelps have no more a leg to stand on then the KKK.
-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 12:06 PM
There is no mention of same-sex marriages or partnerships in the Bible, either for or against. Probably because these issues were not even considered in Biblical times.
-- Posted by MsMarylin on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 12:28 PM
AA, the organization that saved my life, has way too many members around here that seem to have forgotten the core purpose of the group. I grew weary of being asked how often I went to church, how often I prayed, etc.
I am still sober and have surrounded myself with other alcoholics who feel the same.
-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 2:03 PM
Mike, what about everything else in Leviticus? If 18:22 is relevant, then the whole book is. Can't have it both ways.
-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 5:17 PM
You must not know Mountain Home very well Zook. We have many Gays and Lesbians. Some I have known for at least 20 years. You live in a bubble. If it doesn't hit close to home for you, you are ignorant.
-- Posted by MsMarylin on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 8:07 PM
HOW INSULTING......WHO'S NEXT??? weirdo's illegals and muslims....so who decides who is ok??
SURELY THAT IS RESERVED FOR ...... AS a person raised in a christian household I find that comment beyond offensive.SHOULD WE BURN THEM AT THE STACK???? YOUR ENTITLED TO YOUR OPINION ZOOK...BUT I DONT THINK YOU HAVE TO WONDER WHY PEOPLE SHY AWAY FROM THE RIGHT.....
-- Posted by lamont on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 8:46 PM
The word, "abomination" at the time when the Bible was written did not mean immoral and therefore worthy of punishment. It meant nontraditional or not part of established ritual. Again, that does not mean that it was a crime punishable by death. It was just something nontraditional and awkward. If you are going to quote the book then know the context for which it was written from.
Furthermore, science is on the verge of proving that homosexuality is the result of random hormone washes of the fetus during the last trimester. Therefore, it is not a choice.
-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 9:15 PM
Well Zook you seem to be talking a lot about you.
OK so your not PC Correct many other people aren't either. If you want to quote the Bible that's fine, but just remember there are some Christians that look down on you because your living your life in sin according to the Bible.
-- Posted by MsMarylin on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 10:36 PM
Humanity has many examples of randomly occurring genetic variants that do not aid in our survival. Dwarfism, risk-loving behavior, being Albino, etc. are just some examples. Homosexuality is just another randomly occurring genetic item. Much the same as being left-handed.
Why would anyone willingly put themselves through the awkwardness and self-loathing that goes along with being homosexual. They know that they can't reproduce and make the best of it. I could not care less if anyone is gay or not, just do not come onto me and all is good.
-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Sun, May 13, 2012, at 11:17 PM
Burn them at the "stack." Was that the hay stack?
-- Posted by OpinionMissy on Mon, May 14, 2012, at 9:48 AM
ZOOK....YOU MUST HAVE SOMEONE ELSE IN MIND...I DONT USE THE TERM UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS....there illegal and that is all I have ever said. so climb down with me.....I said the comment was insulting and that is what I meant.Please consider that there are times that people dont say what's on there mind and then sometimes we do.IT is not so much what as how and your feelings are considered at least by ME anyhow.Always have to everybody.SOME HERE I FEEL DONT CONSIDER PEOPLE FEELINGS,BUT THAT IS THERE BUSINESS.You use offensive terminology and when that is done people take it that way wether it was meant that way or not.They are terms that provoke.I dont think that has anything to do with PC,HAS TO DO WITH BEING HUMAN.I know your angry join the club,the world you are comfortable in is not there my friend,and will not return you will learn to live in this one like it or not,or it will destroy you.SETTLE DOWN.....YOU NEED TO CK OUT THE SERINITY PRAYER
ZOOK.....Please you can be offended ,You dont like taking on other peoples garbage neither do I just as you dont want to be held accountable for there behavior neither do I.
TWILL..... MY feelings also, keep it to your self and were good.
-- Posted by lamont on Mon, May 14, 2012, at 11:00 AM
I think that I will stay here in Reno. Houses in California are 30 to 40% higher and the job market is not really all that much better than here. Besides, things are about to really take off here. I can't say what it is but keep your eyes and ears open later this year.
Homosexuality has always existed. It exists in other primates who do not have nearly the intellect as humans. My ad-hoc theory about why it is a more prominent social issue than ever before is this. One, in the past those types would have kept their mouths shut and went along with the social norms. They would have still got with women even though they could not care less about them. Two, those who did not keep quiet were disposed of. In the more primitive past, anything that could not be explained had to be done away with. In today's era of relative tolerance and rampant information, it is bound to be a major topic. It does not help either side to have Fred Phelps and his band of miscreants staining human kind.
-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Mon, May 14, 2012, at 3:00 PM
I am talking about big things happening in Reno. A certain major employer is going to start operations here. I cant say who it is but it is going to lift Reno out of the funk it has been in.
-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Mon, May 14, 2012, at 6:41 PM
If certain people want less government intrusion in their life then why the constitutional bans on gay marriage in many states. These do not just sprout up out of thin air. It is government telling the people what to do. Government is not the moral authority.
Furthermore, churches would not have to perform the ceremonies. No one would be forcing it down their throats. Lets just move on past it and start working on issues that affect everybody not just a small minority.
-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Tue, May 15, 2012, at 12:51 PM
Constitutional bans or any law prohibiting gay marriage on the behalf of Republicans is hypocritical. If they want less government intrusion, they would step aside and let it happen. If it was a matter of taxation, certain people on here would be railing against it. However, because it is a social issue and they think that it has moral value then it gets a free pass. Can't have it both ways. It is only a matter of time before most states are open to it.
-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Wed, May 16, 2012, at 11:06 AM
Mike, why are you and so many others sticking your nose in, when at the end of the day, you will have no idea what the ultimate judge will have to say about it. What if, just what if your wrong???
-- Posted by royincaldwell on Wed, May 16, 2012, at 6:20 PM
For pity sake don't give the gays any rights after all that might be constitutional....
-- Posted by MsMarylin on Wed, May 16, 2012, at 8:36 PM
Yeah the Demos like all humans, they don't pick and choice and I've heard some of them even like the evil Republicans.
-- Posted by MsMarylin on Wed, May 16, 2012, at 8:58 PM
I really want to hear what the Constitution says about gay marriage. No interpretations, no theories, no inferences. Only point blank, dead-on-the-money, verbatim, perfectly contextual references.
Second, government intrusion is government intrusion no matter how justified or unjustified it is. A hot steaming pile is a hot steaming pile no matter the clever rhetoric one employs. One can't have it in some ways and not others. If one's ideology is going to be based on it, then one needs to stand by 100% and not make exceptions because it does not fit one's subjective world.
California's problem is not gay people. Their budget deficit is due to caving into public sector unions and very relaxed welfare laws. Again, gay people do not factor into that. The pensions owed to large number of state employees is crippling the state. Again, not gay people nor anything connected to them.
-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Wed, May 16, 2012, at 10:49 PM
twil, as a former resident of California, I can tell you that another part of California's problem is that there hasn't been a bond measure they didn't love.
Mike, what ever happened to "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness"?
-- Posted by royincaldwell on Thu, May 17, 2012, at 6:00 AM
ZOOK....TRYING TO SELL MYTHS IS NOT THE WAY TO GO.....YOU DONT HAVE TO BE HOMOSEXUAL TO HAVE AIDS OR HIV.that scare tactic was debunked a long time ago.You served with homosexuals,they did there job and didnt try to impose there lifstyle on you.THEY ARE HUMAN AND CITIZENS WHO SERVED THERE COUNTRY just like you and I.There are a whole lot of so called straight people who sat on the couch and still do.Service is voluntary,therefore sitting on the couch is by choice.We gave them that choice,both.I have more respect for the homosexual who chose to serve but that is ME.They were willing to defend some people want to tell us how great they are from the couch while others defend.They die with honor the same as you and I,THERE NAMES ARE ON THE WALL WE MAY NEVER KNOW WHO THEY WERE BUT THEY ARE THERE.............DID you know at one time blood was segregated YES even on the battlefield.I wont give the red craoss a dime to this day.
-- Posted by lamont on Thu, May 17, 2012, at 8:57 AM
There's many other diseases you could of caught from a fellow solder besides aides. That's an old fear monger story you keep repeating.
-- Posted by MsMarylin on Thu, May 17, 2012, at 9:07 AM
He I think if same sex couples wanna get married and be miserable like the rest of us married couples then why not.
-- Posted by shockwave on Thu, May 17, 2012, at 12:01 PM
the ultimate cop out is the "well you have never done this or that". It is just another form of the old, tired game played out in the playground of my package is bigger than yours.
I fail to understand the connection between allowing gay marriage and smokers/drinkers/perverts mooching off the system. I think someone needs to wake up and realize that this is 2012 and not 1960. Those stereotypes may have been true then but they are not now. There are plenty of non-gay and white-bread Americans that abuse the system. Plenty of trailer park types that fit this description but yet they get a free pass.
-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Thu, May 17, 2012, at 1:04 PM
I have also come to the conclusion that you really down at the core base your rants on stereotype, assumption, and opinion. Those issues that you speak of are very valid but are in no way tied to gay marriage. The two are totally separate spheres. I know quite a few people who would prove your ingrained stereotypes 100% wrong. I know that you will cop out and say that a few exceptions do not make the rule. However, I will venture to say that you do not actually KNOW one single gay person.
I predict that you will dodge this or lie. It's ok, most people can not handle being called out on the carpet. Now, to aid your next tirade and keep you on topic, why don't you tell us all about how allowing gay marriage is going to result in an explosion of second hand smoking-related illness, drunk-driving deaths, drug addiction, and another AIDS epidemic. If you can't back this up with fact and not prejudice or stereotype, then own up to it. I don't want to hear about you growing up in San Francisco. That was then and this is now. Don't stir the pot and then complain because it gets too hot.
Divide the nation? What an epic cop-out? If we allowed gay marriage, life would carry on for 99.9999999999999% of most Americans in exactly the same form as it did before.
-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Fri, May 18, 2012, at 10:19 AM
And like the stupid polls and those that copy and paste.......... Your opinion Zook means nothing !
-- Posted by MsMarylin on Fri, May 18, 2012, at 6:00 PM
It won't be your opinion that counts, only the votes.
Flag burning tomorrow in Carl Miller Park starts at Noon.
-- Posted by MsMarylin on Fri, May 18, 2012, at 9:07 PM
Its how they dispose of torn, and tattered flags. They burn them. Some are dedicated to family or friends who have passed on. Its put on by American Legion Posts #26 and #101. They used to have a picnic and a camp out at strike Dam. Last year was the first time they did it at the park.
-- Posted by MsMarylin on Fri, May 18, 2012, at 9:21 PM
Mike, next time you want to comment on people who don't assimilate into our country, try reading this.
Do they get a pass??
-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sat, May 19, 2012, at 6:04 AM
I AM GOING TO ASK THIS. ZOOK WERE DID YOU GET YOUR INFORMATION FROM????The reason I ask is there is a tendencie to twist things for the side of some tyranny without facts.I dont care that you hate this man I do care that we paint and accurate picture not one we want to see rather than what is.THE KIND OF ANALOGY'S YOU MAKE ARE VERY DISTORTED.
Think about this......GOV ROMENEY WANTS TO BE PRESIDENT BUT HE DOESNT KNOW HOW TO TALK TO JOE BLOW MIDDLE CLASS WITHOUT TALKING DOWN.So therfore I could make a comparison that say's he is the one WHO is already setting the tone of and emperial presidency and a partial one at best, considering the makeup of his campaign and the people who seem to be at his speeches.SO the question could be who or what is he for other than making money ,and then the question is for who???? BE carefull what you wish for....people try to set the president up as not one of us.GOV ROMENEY IS NOT LIKE ANYONE I KNOW AND I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE IN MANY PLACES'S.....LATTER
-- Posted by lamont on Sat, May 19, 2012, at 9:58 AM
I thought better of you. What a cowardly dodge. Supposedly, you are of high character but yet you dodge simple questions. Let's try this again.
"why don't you tell us all about how allowing gay marriage is going to result in an explosion of second hand smoking-related illness, drunk-driving deaths, drug addiction, and another AIDS epidemic. If you can't back this up with fact and not prejudice or stereotype, then own up to it."
Admit that your self-righteous, passionate stance is based on something legit such as logic and reason or admit that your rants are nothing but ignorance and stereotype.
I do not judge anybody without having something to back it up. Try it out sometime.
-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Sat, May 19, 2012, at 10:16 AM
In terms of percentages, we are just about on track with other administrations, except they didn't have to deal with a near depression!
-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sat, May 19, 2012, at 2:25 PM
Oh, I forgot to mention, over 50% of the debt is owed to US! Default on the foreign held debt and you get an instant reduction in deficit spending of about 250 BILLION!
-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sat, May 19, 2012, at 2:46 PM
ZOOK ....what does money have to do with martial law and the other things you were talking about.....I know about 16 trillion .......I am sure he added ALL of that to the deficit.
I want to read this hitler stuff
-- Posted by lamont on Sat, May 19, 2012, at 4:19 PM
I DONT THINK ROY pulled MR BUCHNANS CUT AND PASTE....I did answer it and 2 hours latter it was not there.That same excerpt cost him dearly.IT may have had some good points but it also was incomplete as far as causality was concerned.In any event that was the secound time that was posted.Probally for the same reason.Points fingers, gives no solution,and takes no responsibility.HIS thoughts and that's fair.HECK I agree with a lot of it,but you cannot put everyone in that box,especially when discrimination is still common place.MAJOR CHANGE DID NOT START HAPPENING UNTIL THE 1980's.ANYHOW it is always a intresting read.HE really doesnt know anything about the black community......Those are my thoughts.
-- Posted by lamont on Sun, May 20, 2012, at 8:18 AM
MHresident, If I pull anything, you will know it!
You are a moron for assuming I did. Yes I called you a name!
Try asking Brenda, or the staff at MHN why it was removed.
People like you who hide behind their screen name and make such stupid accusations represent the worst kind of coward!
-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, May 20, 2012, at 8:28 AM
To MHresident, your cut and paste job was pulled because it violated MHN rules about posting copyrighted materials and it violated the copyright laws of the United States. I guess some of you on the board fell it's OK to violate the law.
-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, May 20, 2012, at 9:25 AM
"and I just told you EARLIER that the queer situation does NOT cause the OTHERS........but that ALL have been a drain on our resources."
Who is this "ALL" that you speak of?
Second, if gay marriage would not cause not cause the others then why do you care? Why do you routinely and predictably respond to posts that are about gay marriage and gay marriage only with your usual tirade about mooching? Again, feel free to show your cowardice.
Gay marriage would have virtually no effect on the daily life of 99.9999999999% of Americans and I think that you know this. There are other, bigger, better issues that affect greater numbers than this ever will.
-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Sun, May 20, 2012, at 10:03 AM
The Buchanan piece is alive and well on another comment thread to an "OLD" blog of Roy's.
Too many clicks before coffee?
-- Posted by wh67 on Sun, May 20, 2012, at 11:42 AM
Maybe he hadn't recovered from last night.
-- Posted by royincaldwell on Sun, May 20, 2012, at 12:14 PM
I have watched the military channel for years especially the ww2 documentary's.Those parrells could be made of any country on the face of the earth.IF YOU WANT TO MAKE THEM SPECIFIC TO SOMEONE ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS TO LAY IT AT THERE DOOR STEP..The thing about hitler and his regime was his INTENT how he martialed the population ,he used tried and tested methods nothing new just more intensive.WHAT ARE YOU SAYING ABOUT THE RALLY'S FOR OBAMA????? cOULD IT BE THAT THEY HAVE REAL THREATS TO HIS LIFE????Truth be told a major part of our country is surprised he is still alive,especially in the black community it is a subject of discussion all the time.9 trillion is his share????? i THOUGHT IT WAS 6 SO WHICH ONE IS IT??????
You can say what you want ZOOK but ROMENY is not the GUY.....yOU MIGHT LEARN THAT THE HARD WAY.
NO matter he is a republican....I am surprised at you he violates so many of your principals.HIS APPROACH TO GOVERNING will not do anything for the country as a whole and will put us in another war you can bet on it.This is a nation state not a corporation,our resources in people and other things are limited.Money solves the immediate problem not the long term.I will not cry over spilled milk,but you guys didnt reign in BUSH because you THOUGHT he was making us money but you knew he wasnt,but you werent getting hurt.
ROMENY IS NOT GOING TO SEND OUT CKS TO THE POPULATION ONLY TO HIS CORPORATE FRIENDS.The anger you feel towards solyndra is what I feel about what happened in new orleans.dO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY GOT RICH OFF THE DEATH AND DESTRUCTION IN NEW ORLEANS????? SOLYNDRA didnt kill anyone.It was a govenment loan guarantee that went bad....happens all the time.What I have watched is what I predicted .....to be the same as you must be better than.Nothing new there either, anyhow we could go tit for tat not worth IT.BUT he is not the GUY BELIEVE IT......LATTER
-- Posted by lamont on Mon, May 21, 2012, at 8:29 AM
On more occasions than I can count, a certain person responds to my posts. This certain person does this on their own free will. No one is forcing him to do so. This certain person also always ASSUMES to know what I think on certain topics. A certain someone also shows a complete lack of respect by always going off topic. If I post something about topic X, I expect the response to be loosely connected to topic X. However, a certain person always has to go off topic and make all these assumptions. I do not assume to know anything about you other than what you write on the blog. Give it a try.
We really are not that far apart on things. You could do yourself a favor by not being so beligerent. If you want to pick a fight, then just say it.
-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Mon, May 21, 2012, at 12:51 PM
Back to the topic,
As the old guard fade away, the younger voters are going to support gay marriage in greater numbers as time goes on. At the moment, the struggle is on but that is how it goes. One of the reasons that this topic arouses such strong opinions is that it is subjective. It is also one of the last straws of organized religion. As time has gone on, organized religion's influence on daily life has waned. This topic represents one of it's last chances to affect society as a whole. If it loses this battle along with abortion, it will be relegated to the peanut gallery. Their vehement opposition to this idea is akin to a prize fighter coming out for the 12th round throwing its hardest punches.
-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Tue, May 22, 2012, at 11:46 AM
Good analogy, the religious right is slowly losing it grip on this country. They will continue to control some areas, mostly rural, but that's it. One way or another this whole country will be drug, most likely kicking and screaming, into the 21st century. It's like evolution, adapt or die.
-- Posted by royincaldwell on Tue, May 22, 2012, at 11:56 AM
What is somewhat amusing is that there are only about 14 mentions of homosexuality in the Bible. Out of roughly 190,000 words, that constitutes less than .1% of all the text. That tells me that it was a non-issue and that those who wrote really did not care all that much about it. However, in today's world where organized religion is fading into the shadows they continually bring this up. If those saintly individuals who wrote the sacred text did not care all that much, why do they?
-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Thu, May 24, 2012, at 3:51 PM
Simple, go back to the late 20's early 30's in Germany. It's called a whipping boy.
Your an interesting character twil. How is Reno now a day's besides incredibly crowded? I lived around there in the late 70's. Sparks, Stead, Gardnerville.
-- Posted by royincaldwell on Thu, May 24, 2012, at 7:22 PM
Reno is OK. It took a beating in the last recession and has not really recovered. However, big things are on the horizon. I can not say what they are (out of respect for a colleague that works at the governor's office) but things will be looking up soon. It is not all that crowded at the moment. There was a ton of new development towards Pyramid Lake and out south towards Carson City. Politically, it is an interesting mix of quasi-libertarian and liberals from Sacramento and the Bay.
-- Posted by twilcox1978 on Fri, May 25, 2012, at 1:36 PM
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Almost 65 and retired. Raised by an East Coast liberal. I am also a child of the sixties.
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Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Lifer, Feb 1, 2008.
He provides the experience and weight that balances the weaknesses of both candidates.
He's not likeable enough I don't think. Experienced definitely, but he comes off as pompous. Bill Richardson has even more experience and seems much more likeable, but that's just my opinion.
I agree about Biden. It's got to be someone from the south or heartland to steal votes.
What better to follow the most pompous administration in U.S. history then? Especially considering the way con men have chirped and chuckled for years regarding how weak and spineless they all believe the Democrats always are. I mean, which is it? Should the compassionate party toughen up, or lay down again? Joe Biden is firey and articulate. While I don't agree with all his policies, he's no doubt an unwavering, dead-on, fantastic debater. And an ass kicker.
I would love to see Joe Biden go up against ANYONE the Corporate Party trots out there in the televised vice presidential debates. I would give a week's pay to see him take on the current Vice president, face to face, for the whole world to witness. It would be a veritable slaughter, with Palpatine seething, sneering and lost for words, throughout.
"A noun, a verb and 9/11" indeed.
Biden might be too strong a VP candidate, as Biden has the potential to overshadow the P. Also, Biden comes across as a wise guy.
I didn't mean he'd be a bad choice because of his policies or anything, I was just pointing out that people have a negative reaction to him. I've got no problem with someone being fiery and standing up for their opinions, just saying that he's a bad choice for VP because he won't bring many votes in, and may take some away because people view him unfavorably, especially if Hillary gets the nod. She absolutely needs someone likeable to balance out negative opinion of her.
Biden will not be the VP. I've heard he wants to be Sec. of State.
Now, Lifer, seriously, given your name don't you think you should mention that Biden is that he's the only Democratic leader who supported the ban on partial birth abortions? There are certainly many other reasons to like him, but to me he sounds like a football coach the way he talks. He's smart, but kind of in your face I think.
precisely what this sheepified, remote controlled country needs, no?
i still don't see the problem... about all people have pointed to is that the man is bombastic... wow... what else?
PC you miss the point. Why would anyone pick a VP that people don't like? He comes of as a smarmy know it all. He may be the smartest, most experienced guy out there, but nobody will VOTE for him!
Yeah, he'd do so well cuz he'd done so well in the Dem primary. How about sticking to the thread topic instead of always making threads into a Bush Administration rant. Too many people in here turn every thread into Bush, or Iraq.
As for Biden, he's the type of VP candidate each of the two dem possibles would be looking to hire. Obama and Hillary will be looking for a white male for certain, and then will try to find a combination of charactoristics like foreign policy, military, & executive experience, with maybe a sprinkle of geographics and faith mixed in (although that would only be icing). I think someone like Biden would be considered, but in the end, not chosen. There are lots of choices that would be safer, and possibly better. Wesley Clark, Bill Richardson, & Jimm Webb come to mind.
you're right. But I just don't like him. When he talks he reminds of Bill Parcells. Ooops, no offense!
It's ridiculous the more you think about it. The most qualified person can't be VP because he "doesn't sound good" or he's from the wrong state (Delaware, BTW). What an idiotic process. THat's how Johnson got in and look what he ended up doing. Will we ever learn?
Separate names with a comma.

subset: commoncrawl


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While in the grips of Whalermania, I gave some brief thought to what the NHL could/should look like ten years down the road...
I expanded by two teams to bring it to 32, as I think given 10 years and teams placed in better markets it could work successfully.
Eastern Conference
Northeast Division
Boston Bruins
Hartford Whalers (Atl, Nsh, or expansion)
Montreal Canadiens
Quebec (Atl, Nsh, or expansion)
Atlantic Division
New Jersey Devils
New York Islanders
New York Rangers
Philadelphia Flyers
Southeast Division
Carolina Hurricanes
Florida Panthers
Tampa Bay Lightning
Washington Capitals
Central Division
Buffalo Sabres
Columbus/ Ohio Blue Jackets (name change might help generate interest up north?)
Ottawa Senators
Pittsburgh Penguins


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Brown fur seal
The brown fur seal (Arctocephalus pusillus), also known as the Cape fur seal, South African fur seal and the Australian fur seal is a species of fur seal.
The brown fur seal is the largest and most robust fur seal. It has a large and broad head with a pointed snout that may be flat or upturned slightly. [2] The pinnae and vibrissae are long, and the vibrissae may extend backward past pinnae, especially in adult males. The foreflippers are covered with sparse hair over about three quarters of their length. The hindflippers are short relative to the large body, with short fleshy tips on the digits.[2] The size and weight of the brown fur seal depends on the subspecies. Males of the African subspecies (A. p. pusillus) are 2.3 metres (7.5 ft) in length on average and weigh from 200–350 kilograms (440–770 lb).[3] Females are smaller, averaging 1.8 metres (5.9 ft) in length and weighing an average of 120 kilograms (260 lb).[3] Males of the Australian subspecies (A. p. doriferus) are 2–2.2 metres (6.6–7.2 ft) in length and weigh 218–360 kilograms (480–790 lb).[3] Females are 1.2–1.8 metres (3.9–5.9 ft) length and weigh 36–110 kilograms (79–240 lb).[3]
Adult male brown fur seals are dark gray to brown with a darker mane of short coarse hairs and a light belly, while adult females are light brown to gray with a light throat and darker back and belly. The foreflippers of the fur seal are dark brown to black.[2] Pups are born black and molt to gray pelage with a pale throat within three to five months. [2] The skull of the African subspecies has a larger crest between the mastoid process and the jugular process of the exoccipital.[3]
The African fur seal lives around the southern and south southwestern coast of Africa from Cape Cross in Nambia and around the Cape of Good Hope to Black Rocks of Cape province.[2] The Australian fur seal lives in Bass Strait, at for islands off Victoria in southeastern Australia and five islands off Tasmania.[2] Brown fur seals prefer to haul out and breed on rocky islands, rock ledges and reefs and pebble and boulder beaches. However some large colonies can be found on sandy beaches.[2] Fur seals spend of the year at sea but are not too far from land. They have been recorded 160km from land but this is not common.[3]
It appears that the African fur seal's diet is made of up to 70% fish, 20% squid and 2% crab.[4] Also eaten are other crustaceans, cephalopods and sometimes birds.[4][3] The Australian fur seal mostly eats squid, octopus, fish and lobsters.[4][3] The brown fur seal dives for its food. The African subspecies can dive as deep as 204m and for as long as 7.5 minutes.[5] The Australian subspecies generally feeds at lower depths, diving on averge 120m[4] and can reach as deep as 200m.[5]
The brown fur seal's main predator is the great white shark, although they are also preyed upon by various other animals as well, such as orcas. Land-based predators include black-backed jackals and brown hyenas on the Skeleton Coast in Namibia. In False Bay, the seals employ a number of antipredatory strategies while in shark-infested waters such as:
- Swimming in large groups
- Low porpoising to increase subsurface vigilance
- Darting in different directions to cause confusion when attacked
- Riding near the dorsal fin to keep out of reach of the shark's jaws when attacked.[6]
Life history
Brown fur seals often gather into colonies on rookeries in numbers ranging from 500-1500, at least for the Australian subspecies.[3] While fur seal spend most of the year at sea, they never fully evacuate the rookeries as mothers and pups return to them throughout the year. There is no established dispersal from a colony although some fur seals from one colony have been found at another. True boundaries do not exist between the colonies. When at sea fur seals travel in small feeding groups. Brown fur seals begin to breed in the middle of October which is when males haul out on shore to establish territories though display, sparring and sometimes actual combat. They will fast at this time and no not eat until after mating in November or December. When the female arrives, they fight among themselves for territories to give birth in. Female territories are smaller than those of males and are always located within them. Females within a male's territory can be considered part of his harem. However, males do not herd the females who are free to choose their mate and judging them based on the value of his territory. For the Australian fur seal 82% of copulations are done by males whose territories are located directly on the water.[5] Copulation between the male and his females begins six day after they give birth to their pups conceived from the previous year. However there is a delay in the implantation of the blastocyst, which last four months in the African subspecies and three months in the Australian subspecies. [5] Gestation for the brown fur seal lasts an average of 11.75 months. [5]
After mating, females begin alternating brief periods foraging at sea with several days ashore nursing their pups.[2] Foraging trips last about seven days in winter and about four days in summer and autumn. When a mother returns from sea to feed her pup, she emit a loud call which attracts all the nearby pup but she only responds to her pup. It is possible that she can recognize her pup by smell.[5] When leave alone, pups gather in groups and play during the evening.[3] Pups are usually weaned at 4-6 months old.[2]
Human interactions
This species is an inquisitive and friendly animal when in the water, and will often accompany SCUBA divers. They will swim around divers for periods of several minutes at a time, even at a depth of 60m. On land, they are far less relaxed and tend to panic when people come near them.
Australian fur seals were hunted intensively between 1798 and 1825 for commercial reasons. Seal hunting stopped in Australia in 1923, and their population is still recovering. Breeding and haul-out sites are protected by law. South African fur seals have a very robust and healthy population. Harvesting of seals was outlawed in South Africa in 1990.
Brown fur seals are still harvested in Namibia. Around 85,000 pups a year are clubbed to death; their fur is bought by Turkish businessman Hatem Yavuz, and sold to the fashion industry. Many animal activist groups strongly condemn this barbaric culling. The seal is a protected species in South Africa; there are now only a million seals in the wild. The quota set by the Namibian government for culling the pups, until 2019, will be a million pups.
- ^ Hofmeyr, G. & Gales, N. (2008). Arctocephalus pusillus. In: IUCN 2008. IUCN Red List of Threatened Species. Downloaded on 30 January 2009.
- ^ a b c d e f g h i Randall R. Reeves, Brent S. Stewart, Phillip J. Clapham and James A. Powell (2002). National Audubon Society Guide to Marine Mammals of the World. Alfred A. Knopf, Inc. ISBN 0375411410.
- ^ a b c d e f g h i j King, J. 1983. Seals of the World. Ithaca, New York: Comstock Publishing Associates.
- ^ a b c d Schliemann, H. 1990. Eared Seals and Walruses. Pp. 168-203 in B. Grzimek, ed. Grzimek's Encyclopedia of Mammals. New York: McGraw-Hill.
- ^ a b c d e f Riedman, M. 1990. The Pinnipeds: Seals, Sea Lions, and Walruses. Berkeley: University of California Press.
- ^ Anti-Predatory Strategies of Cape Fur Seals at Seal Island


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Versions available for this page: CUBRID 8.2.1 | CUBRID 8.3.0 | CUBRID 8.3.1 | CUBRID 8.4.0 | CUBRID 8.4.1 | CUBRID 8.4.3 | CUBRID 9.0.0 |
A database backup is the procedure of storing CUBRID database volumes, control files and log files, and it is executed by using the cubrid backupdb utility or the CUBRID Manager. DBA must regularly back up the database so that the database can be properly restored in the case of storage media or file errors. The restore environment must have the same operating system and the same version of CUBRID as the backup environment. For such a reason, you must perform a backup in a new environment immediately after migrating a database to a new version.
To recover all database pages, control files and the database to the state at the time of backup, the cubrid backupdb utility copies all necessary log records.
cubrid backupdb [ options ] database_name
[ options ]
-D | -r | -l | -o | -S | -C | -t | -z | -e |
--destination-path | --remove-archive | --level | --output-file | --SA-mode | --CS-mode | --thread-count | --compress | --except-active-log | --no-check
The following table shows options available with the cubrid backupdb utility (options are case sensitive).
Specifies the directory path name or device name where backup volumes are to be created.
Removes unnecessary archive logs after the backup is complete.
Specifies the backup level to 0, 1 or 2.
Specifies the name of the file where progress information is to be displayed.
Performs a backup in standalone mode.
Performs a backup in client/server mode.
Specifies the maximum number of threads allowed for a parallel backup.
Performs a compressed backup.
Specifies that active log volumes are not included in the backup.
Specifies the interval of idle time after reading 1 MB of data from a backup file. The default value is 0 in milliseconds.
Does not perform a consistency check on a database before making a backup.
Performing backup by specifying the directory in which backup files are to be stored (-D or --destination-path)
The following example shows how to use the -D option to store backup files in the specified directory. The backup file directory must be specified before performing this job. If the -D option is not specified, backup files are stored in the directory specified in the databases.txt file which stores database location information.
cubrid backupdb -D /home/cubrid/backup demodb
The following example shows how to store backup files in the current directory by using the -D option. If you enter a period (.) following the -D option as an argument, the current directory is specified.
cubrid backupdb -D . demodb
Removing archive logs after backup (-r or --remove-archive)
Writes an active log to a new archive log file when the active log is full. If a backup is performed in such a situation and backup volumes are created, backup logs created before the backup will not be used in subsequent backups. The -r option is used to remove archive log files that will not be used any more in subsequent backups after the current one is complete.
The -r option only removes unnecessary archive log files that were created before backup, and does not have any impact on backup; however, if an administrator removes the archive log file after a backup, it may become impossible to restore everything. For this reason, archive logs should be removed only after careful consideration.
If you perform an incremental backup (backup level 1 or 2) with the -r option, there is the risk that normal recovery of the database will be impossible later on. Therefore, it is recommended that the -r option only be used when a full backup is performed.
cubrid backupdb -r demodb
The -r option does not affect the restore because it removes only unnecessary archive logs before the backup, but full restore may not be possible if the administrator removes archive logs created after the backup as well; when you remove archive logs, you must check if those logs would be required in any subsequent restore.
If you perform an incremental backup (backup level 1 or 2) with the -r option, there is the risk that normal recovery of the database will be impossible later on. Therefore, it is recommended that the -r option only be used when a full backup is performed.
Performing a backup with the backup level specified (-l or --level)
The following example shows how to execute an incremental backup of the level specified by using the -l option. If the -l option is not specified, a full backup is performed. For details on backup levels, see Incremental Backup.
cubrid backupdb -l 1 demodb
Storing backup progress information in the specified file (-o or --output-file)
The following example shows how to write the progress of the database backup to the info_backup file by using the -o option.
cubrid backupdb -o info_backup demodb
The following example shows the contents of the info_backup file. You can check the information on the number of threads, compression method, backup start time, the number of permanent volumes, backup progress and backup end time.
[ Database(demodb) Full Backup start ]
- num-threads: 1
- compression method: NONE
- backup start time: Mon Jul 21 16:51:51 2008
- number of permanent volumes: 1
- backup progress status
volume name | # of pages | backup progress status | done
demodb_vinf | 1 | ######################### | done
demodb | 25000 | ######################### | done
demodb_lginf | 1 | ######################### | done
demodb_lgat | 25000 | ######################### | done
# backup end time: Mon Jul 21 16:51:53 2008
[Database(demodb) Full Backup end]
Performing backup in standalone mode (-S or --SA-mode)
The following example shows how to perform backup in standalone mode (that is, backup offline) by using the -S option. If the -S option is not specified, the backup is performed in client/server mode.
cubrid backupdb -S demodb
Performing backup in client/server mode (-C or --CS-mode)
The following example shows how to perform backup in client/server mode by using the -C option and the demodb database is backed up online. If the -C option is not specified, a backup is performed in client/server mode.
cubrid backupdb -C demodb
Parallel backup (-t or --thread-count)
The following example shows how to execute parallel backup with the number of threads specified by the administrator by using the -t option. Even when the argument of the -t option is not specified, a parallel backup is performed by automatically assigning as many threads as CPUs in the system.
cubrid backupdb -t 4 demodb
Compressed backup (-z or --compress)
The following example shows how to compress the database and stores it in the backup file by using the -z option. The size of the backup file and the time required for backup can be reduced by using the -z option.
cubrid backupdb -z demodb
Enabling to exclude active log volumes (-e or --except-active-log)
The following example shows how to execute backup excluding active logs of the database by using the -e option. You can reduce the time required for backup by using the -e option. However, extra caution is required because active logs needed for completing a restore to the state of a certain point from the backup point are not included in the backup file, which may lead to an unsuccessful restore.
cubrid backupdb -e demodb
Adjusting the interval of idle time during a backup (--sleep-msecs)
The --sleep-msecs option allows you to specify the interval of idle time during the database backup. The default value is 0 in milliseconds. The system becomes idle for the specified amount of time whenever it reads 1 MB of data from a file. This option is used to reduce the performance degradation of an active server during a live backup. The idle time will prevent excessive disk I/O operations.
cubrid backupdb --sleep-msecs=5 demodb
Disabling database consistency check (--no-check)
The following example shows how to execute backup without checking the consistency of the database by using the --no-check option.
cubrid backupdb --no-check demodb


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our riverside restaurants in surrey
savour tasty views wherever you're dining with us
Dine, chat and watch the world drift slowly by… ducks… boats… clouds. At the runnymede-on-thames all our gorgeous places to eat are nestling on the riverbank.
For the ultimate riverside experience, dine outside on the leftbank, the lounge, and The Lock Bar and Kitchen terraces. For sunny days there are parasols… and for summer evenings there are heater lamps so you can relax and enjoy great company and beautifully illuminated views.
Book ahead or drop in any time. Our hotel restaurants in Surrey have special kids menus and a variety of special offers available.
leftbank restaurant
Come and enjoy fabulous buffet-style food and help yourself to as little or as much as you like…
the lounge
Informal dining light snacks, and afternoon tea served to you while you sit and relax in our chilled lounge…
the lock bar and kitchen
Gorgeous hearty dishes in our beautiful lock-side setting...


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The last day to officially withdraw at the discretion of the instructor and receive a grade of a W is Friday, May 2, 2014. The withdrawal form must be turned in to the Student Records Office at any of our six sites by 4:30 pm on Friday, May 2, 2014.
If it is a Saturday class the last day to withdraw at the discretion of the instructor is Saturday, May 3, 2014 and the withdrawal slip with instructor permission and or email should be turned in by 4:30 p.m. Monday, May 6, 2014 for a Saturday class.
It is the student's responsibility to contact his or her instructor and get permission to withdraw. Forward instructor permission and withdrawal request to email@example.com or firstname.lastname@example.com.


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Catch up! 'Cause ketchup is not just about tomatoes anymore.
i'm busy pickling and jamming most of the year, sometimes in my little white farmhouse with a big garden in the berkshires of MA and sometimes seven stories above the industrial bog of long island city NY. you can read all about my preserving adventures at http://hungrytigress.com or give me a shout on twitter @hungry_tigress, or facebook http://facebook.com/hungrytigress or email email@example.com
yeah, i know, my photo doesn't fit.


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carbonated beverage filling machine used carbonated beverage filling machine used carbonated beverage filling machine used
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the three functions of bottle washing.
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to fill mineral water and purified water in bottles made of polyester and plastics.
3.the machine is conveniently turned to adjust the machine to
fill various types of bottles.
the filling operation is faster and more stable due to the micro-negative pressure filling
operation of the new type is adopted.
4. The output and benefit of the machine is higher than the machine of the
same specifications.
the advanced OMRON programmed controller (PLC) is adapted to control
the machine runs automatically, Suitable for drinks, coffee, water, and many other field.
the machine is ideal-preferred equipment for beverage producer.
Technical data
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Washing heads
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Production capacity (b/ h)
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filling accuracy
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(just for reference, will give you Exact Data before shipping)
Delivery time
20-45 days after receipt of deposit
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Terms of payment
T/ T, L/ C at sight
Home installation, buyer should prepare materials used to testing themachine in advance and should be responsible for the cost of ourtechnician. Salary: 80 USD/ Day
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After sale service
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Skype: raliancheng02


text:
Looking for something?
National Weather Service ForecastClick here for road conditions road cam
NEW! For the most current schedule of community events click here! Or find us on Facebook!
Tule Lake Pilgrimage News ReleaseDownload
Burn Ban Press Release June 14, 2014Download
Home of America's Tallest Flagpole West of the Mississippi
Butte Valley teems with American and community pride. In June 2, 1996, this small but energetic community, raised a 30 x 60 ft American flag to fly atop a 200 ft - tall flagpole. Located next to Dorris City Hall, America's tallest flagpole West of the Mississippi garners immense interest from travelers and residents alike. A community flag raising and barbecue is held annually on the Fourth of July to honor all Veterans and active military who fight to preserve the freedom we all enjoy.
Aerial View of Butte Valley Photo by Don Mouser of Aerial Concepts
Butte Valley – Your Vacation Destination Butte Valley is comprised of approximately 120 square miles in northern - most California. Nestled between magnificent Mt. Shasta to the south, elevation 14,162 ft., and Oregon's great Klamath Basin and the state line to the north, Butte Valley is considered High Desert plateau with a typical valley elevation of 4250 ft. Located in Siskiyou County, it includes the communities of Macdoel, Tennant, Bray, Mt. Hebron and the City of Dorris.
The valley is intersected by Highway 97 and surrounded by mountain ridges and lakes. Highway 97, also know as the Al-Can Highway which was originally completed during WW II, connects us with the Interstate 5 corridor and communities all the way to Alaska, including Bend, Oregon. Hwy 97 has been designated as the Volcanic Legacy Scenic Byway and offers travelers numerous opportunities to view historical sites and wildlife. The center of the valley is 325 miles SE of Portland, Or. and 350 miles miles north of San Francisco. Check out the Google map of our area here.
A Camping/Hunting/Recreation Bonanza
Whether you shoot with a camera or gun or just want to enjoy nature's beauty, Butte Valley has it all. Over 50 Species of mammals, 200 species of birds and exceptional Rainbow & Brown trout, catfish, and bass abound in Butte Valley. Tour, stay and enjoy Butte Valley's Wildlife Refuge, state and federal campgrounds , our lakes and mountain streams and historic National Monuments and Parks.
Looking for winter fun, then you found your place. Multiple opportunities to snowmobile, cross-country ski and even dog sledding are available in Butte Valley. Check out " Fun Things to Do."
Live and Work
Butte Valley offers a rural setting with a small town atmosphere. The local economy is primarily agriculture/ranching with typical retail and service offerings.
Medical and Dental needs are fulfilled by our local community health clinic located in Dorris with major medical and hospital services provided by entities located in Klamath Falls, Oregon just 20 miles north of the City of Dorris.
Butte Valley has a solid education system with preschool through grade 12 schools. Residents can choose between affordable housing in one of our small town/city communities or our numerous smaller farm/ranch home sites. Butte Valley is blessed with numerous churches and organizations to support its residents.Butte Valley has several major ag businesses who provide both annual and large seasonal work employment . A moulding mill operates in our community providing additional annual employment. Public employment is also a major source of local jobs.
A combination of civic pride, civic involvement, American spirit and family values make Butte Valley a great place to live and work. Come join us and enjoy all the benefits of Butte Valley.
The Chamber would like to thank the many contributors to the content and photos displayed in this website. All contributors are appreciated and owed the community's gratitude. We welcome you to explore Butte Valley's community's pride documented herein.


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-T / T / +T | Comment(s)
Monday, May 13, 2013
New Zealand Orders 10 Kaman Seasprites
The New Zealand Ministry of Defense has agreed to buy 10 SH-2G Super Seasprites from Kaman Aircraft Corp. According to Kaman, the $120-million contract includes spare parts, a full mission flight simulator and related logistics support for the multi-mission helicopter. New Zealand is scheduled to begin taking delivery of the helicopters beginning later this year. The SH-2G is currently in operation with the Royal New Zealand Navy, along with the Egyptian Air Force and Polish Navy. Kaman started the H-2 Seasprite program in the late 1950s, flying for number of years before retiring them in June 2001.
Kaman SH-2 Seasprite in a 2009 photo. Courtesy of Kaman
For more on the history and lineage of the Seasprite, see Editor-at-Large Ernie Stephens' 2009 article, "Putting the 'Super' in the Kaman Super Seasprite."
Related: Airframe News
Kaman SH-2 on the tarmac in this 2009 image. Photo by Ernie Stephens, Editor-at-Large


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Sorry we have filled this position; but we have others available!
Please click Search to view our Current Live Vacancies or Contact Zest to discuss your specific requirements on 0114 238 0012, we may be able to help you or have a suitable position that we are yet to advertise. You can also use the search function to view our advertised vacancies in your area.


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Michael grills a Caribbean-vacation-inspired jerk-spiced fresh mahi mahi.
Yellow pepper cilantro pesto puts the "my oh my" in mahi mahi.
Grilled, fried: our chefs' fab fish tacos are easy to make and fun to eat.
Topping out Spa Day is the dinner Ingrid has created.
Bobby takes on fish tacos, cutting the fat, preservatives and calories.
Get Cooking Channel on your TV.


text:
Who will be the first overall pick in the 2014 NFL draft? That's the question on everyone's mind as the 2014 NFL Scouting Combine comes to a close.
Will the Houston Texans pull the trigger on one of the top quarterbacks? Could they see Teddy Bridgewater, Blake Bortles or Johnny Manziel leading them back into the playoffs? Where does that leave once-in-a-decade talents like Sammy Watkins and Jadeveon Clowney? What about elite left tackle prospects Greg Robinson and Jake Matthews?
The 2014 draft class figures to be one of the deepest in recent memory. In fact, in my 10 years covering the draft, this is the best group I've seen—that's good news for the Texans and their 31 counterparts.
So, who comes off the board first? Find out in this full seven-round mock draft.


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The new Polyamory Weekly #133: Does jealousy equal love? is up! Direct download is at Poly Weekly #133
Subscribe now with iTunes one-click!
Please Digg this podcast at Digg's PW podcast page!
0:00 Introduction and host chat
Intro, under-18 warning and re-direction to www.scarleteen.com; friend me on Twitter and answer questions about what you want on the show, call 206-202-POLY with comments.
1:30 Announcement: Many Loves workshop
This workshop and support series takes place at the Center on Halsted in Chicago, Saturday, December 8th, $15, 10:00 a.m.-1:00 p.m. I'll be there!
2:25 Topic: Does jealousy equal love?
Bill guest co-hosts to discuss this topic that Gafil brought up–why is it that the more deeply we love someone, the more intense the jealousy can feel? Why in our society does a lack of a jealous rage mean a lack of love?
25:10 Resource Review: Operational Intelligence
Sukima calls in a comprehensive review of Nan Wise's Operational Intelligence in New York from November; 29:20 Trace calls in his experience of the same seminar and what he took home; if you're in the area, be sure to check out PolyamorousNYC that meets the third Wednesday of every month
31:35 Wrap-up
Questions? Comments? Feedback? Email email@example.com or call the listener comment line at 206-202-POLY. And hey, why not attach an audio comment to that email? 🙂 Check out PolyWeekly at polyweekly.libsyn.com. Thanks for listening!


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Honestly – it's getting ridiculous now. Granted, Rodgers is starting to look like he does when he's just off – but still we need to try to throw our solid routes – like that one to Cobb right there.
Be nice if Rodgers could stay upright. Lang & smith are just out classed
Saturday isn't doing the best either! Don't understand why we run 1st and 2nd, then when its 3rd and short we do a bad pass to a covered receiver who drops the ball! Move the chains and score YRs!


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Buffett, Einhorn Fight Breaks Out as Government Charges S&P With Fraud
Updated with closing share prices for McGraw-Hill and Moody's
NEW YORK ( TheStreet) -- The Department of Justice is suing Standard & Poor's , the bond-rating unit of McGraw-Hill(MHP) , on fraud charges, claiming it knowingly misrepresented risks in complex and highly rated debt securities before the financial crisis.
Nearly every one of the S&P-rated securities failed, according to the DoJ's civil fraud suit, which calculates the agency may be exposed to repaying least $5 billion in federal government losses. S&P gained from the artificially high ratings, the government said.
While the DoJ's efforts appear to be targeted at S&P, competitors Moody's(MCO) and Fitch Ratings may also face scrutiny. In reaction to a New York Times report and the DoJ's charges, industry analysts said there are risks for all ratings agencies.
Beneath it all is a little-known feud between Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway (BRK.A) and hedge fund investor David Einhorn of Greenlight Capital Management .
It centers on Buffett's near 13% stake in Moody's, Einhorn's short position against the ratings agency, and a class-action lawsuit filed by investors from Iowa, Seattle and Abu Dhabi against it and Standard & Poor's.
The investor lawsuit against Moody's and S&P is set to unfold in courtrooms this month and may indicate whether firms will face an onslaught of private claims, or whether they will put some litigation risk behind them, as booming debt markets create a strong pipeline of business for ratings agencies.
The investor lawsuit filed in 2008 by Abu Dhabi Commercial Bank and Washington's King County argues Moody's and S&P knowingly misrated a structured investment vehicle (SIV) for Morgan Stanley , which the bank then sold off to unwitting investors who suffered losses shortly thereafter.
The SIV, called "Cheyne," contained notes backed by supbrime mortgages and it received the "highest credit ratings ever given to capital notes," according to the judge presiding on the case.
Those notes failed during the credit crunch, and plaintiffs argue the securities were knowingly misrated by agencies because of high fees paid by the issuer, Morgan Stanley, which is also a defendant in the case. Investors are now litigating Moody's and S&P for fraud in a last push to hold the agencies accountable.
The suit centers on whether private investors can be paid out over claims of misrepresentation on the shoddy ratings ascribed to complex securities. Moody's and S&P, meanwhile, argue that their ratings stand as an opinion protected under the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, not a guarantee.
The private lawsuit, which is similar to the DoJ's civil fraud complaint against S&P unveiled Tuesday, is likely to either put to bed investors' claims for pre-crisis bond ratings -- or open a Pandora's box of liability that goes beyond the government's suit.


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Backgrounder #2719 on Asia and the Pacific
August 20, 2012
August 20, 2012 | Backgrounder on Asia and the Pacific
Abstract: While the U.S. and India have developed multifaceted ties over the last decade, the overall relationship has recently been challenged: India bought advanced fighter jets from France, not from the U.S.; the Indian parliament virtually shut out U.S. companies from India's civil nuclear industry; the Singh government delayed economic reforms that would give foreign companies greater access to the Indian market; and many Indians remain suspicious of the Obama Administration's plans for the Asia–Pacific. Nevertheless, the growing strategic challenge presented by a rising China, and India's and America's shared democratic values, will drive the two countries to increase cooperation. India and the U.S. should accept that the partnership will not always meet their expectations, and must demonstrate a willingness to collaborate on issues of core importance to the other.
Several differences between the U.S. and India have arisen over the past two years. While none of the issues on its own would be a major cause of concern, when taken together, the irritants have cast doubt on India's value as a strategic partner for the U.S.
The most recent source of tension in the relationship has been India's reluctance to impose oil sanctions against Iran. Washington was also disappointed by India's decision last year to buy French (rather than American) aircraft to fill an $11 billion order for advanced fighters, as well as by the Indian parliament's passage of legislation in August 2010 that virtually shuts U.S. companies out of India's civil nuclear industry.
The Singh government's unwillingness to implement needed economic reforms has also led to disappointment among potential U.S. investors and undermined prospects for India's future economic growth. The government's quick reneging on the opening of the multi-brand retail sector and its efforts to retroactively tax telecommunications giant Vodafone billions of dollars for its entry into the Indian market in 2007 are the latest indications that India's foreign investment climate is becoming increasingly inhospitable.
Despite the steady upswing in ties between the two nations over the past decade, it is not surprising that they eventually hit some roadblocks, given the concerns of domestic constituencies in each country. Still, the growing strategic challenge presented by a rising China, the two countries' shared democratic values, and their mutual need to confront terrorism in South Asia should encourage them to redouble efforts to increase cooperation.
In order to reap the full benefits of a robust strategic partnership, each side must better understand and appreciate the other's principal security concerns and be willing to adjust long-held policies and positions to meet the needs of an evolving relationship. A robust strategic partnership between the U.S. and India will be critical to ensuring a stable balance of power prevails in Asia. Indian leaders must convince a skeptical bureaucracy and public that long-held suspicions of U.S. power are unmerited, and must explain how the American commitment to Asia serves India's own fundamental security interests. For its part, the U.S. will have to recognize the limits to the partnership and address India's specific security concerns, for example, by reassuring India that the U.S. will remain deeply engaged in Afghanistan long after 2014, and pursuing more consistent counterterrorism policies toward Pakistan.
Many believe the U.S.–India partnership is not living up to what U.S. policymakers expected from it seven years ago. The course correction in the relationship that has occurred over the past two years partly reflects the weakness of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's Congress-led government. Prime Minister Singh, well known as a supporter of strong ties with the U.S., risked his previous government in 2007 to push through the controversial civil nuclear deal, costing him political support from left-leaning parties.
More recently, Singh has faced a series of high-level corruption scandals, the most notorious of which involved the former telecommunications minister, A. Raja, who allegedly sold second-generation telecommunications licenses at less than market value to selected companies. Raja resigned in November 2010, spent over a year in jail, and now faces a trial conducted by a special judge with the Central Bureau of Investigation.
In addition to the series of corruption scandals that have sapped the Singh government of initiative, the release of dozens of WikiLeaks cables dealing with U.S.–India relations also embarrassed the government, and contributed to Singh's reticence to take bold action in the cause of U.S.–India relations.
In the U.S., domestic politics and the economic recession, including record-high unemployment, have also contributed to strains in the Indo–U.S. partnership. President Barack Obama has repeatedly criticized the practice of business outsourcing to India and other countries. The criticism over outsourcing U.S. jobs to India is becoming more pronounced as the U.S. presidential election approaches. In one recent campaign advertisement, President Obama criticized opponent Governor Mitt Romney for allowing his former private equity firm to move American jobs to China and India to cut business costs.[1]
There are also indications that the Obama Administration is making it harder for highly skilled Indian workers to seek employment in the U.S. A U.S. think tank, the National Foundation for American Policy, says that data collected from the U.S. Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services shows a dramatic increase in denials for both L-1 (intra-company transfer) and H-1B (temporary work) visas for India-born professionals and researchers compared to those from other countries.[2] White House officials have admitted to taking a tougher stance toward H-1B applicants than the Bush Administration through application denials and demands for more evidence from employers about their need to hire foreign workers.[3]
The moves to restrict the number of Indian workers in the U.S. and to prevent U.S. companies from outsourcing jobs to countries like India have frustrated Indian government officials. Following the introduction of legislation in the U.S. House of Representatives last year that would punish American companies for offshoring call-center jobs by taking away their federal loan eligibility for a period of five years, former Indian finance minister and now President Pranab Mukherjee accused the U.S. Administration of pushing a protectionist agenda.
The irritants that have arisen in the bilateral relationship are not solely the result of Indian and U.S. domestic political concerns. Differences of approach on key foreign policy challenges, such as Pakistani support for terrorism, the rise of China, and Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons, have also created hurdles in developing a robust strategic agenda on which the two countries can cooperate.
Pakistan. Indian tempering of its relations with the U.S. may partly reflect its disappointment with U.S. polices toward South Asia, including inconsistent messages toward Pakistan on its backing of the Taliban and terrorist groups that target India, such as the Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (LeT). While Washington has recently been more willing to call Pakistan out on its failure to address terrorist threats, such as announcing a $10 million reward for information leading to the arrest and prosecution of LeT founder Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, Indian leaders continue to express wariness about U.S. policies toward Pakistan. Indian officials are particularly concerned about U.S. willingness to boost Pakistani defense capabilities, which New Delhi believes only emboldens the Pakistani military to engage in provocative activities toward India.
Indian officials initially believed that the 9/11 attacks would force the U.S. to pressure Pakistan to give up its reliance on terrorist proxies, but they now believe the U.S. is unwilling to put the necessary pressure on Islamabad to change its terrorism policies. U.S. South Asia expert Christopher Clary notes that Indian officials believe that the U.S. has misjudged Pakistani behavior and motivations over the past several years, and thus have little confidence that the U.S. will develop effective policies toward Pakistan in the future.[4] Even so, India is pursuing a bilateral dialogue with Islamabad in an effort to forge more peaceful ties, independent of any U.S. role.
Indian officials also are understandably wary of U.S. policies toward Afghanistan. After the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan and the ousting of the Taliban regime, U.S. officials pressured India to limit its diplomatic presence in Afghanistan to assuage Pakistani concerns about the formation of a New Delhi–Kabul axis aimed against Pakistan. U.S. thinking on India's role in Afghanistan has evolved considerably in the past few years. This development was evident last fall when the U.S. welcomed the announcement of the India–Afghanistan Strategic Partnership Agreement, which included a commitment from India to train Afghan security forces. In previous years, the U.S. would likely have frowned on such an agreement and viewed it as provocative toward Pakistan.
The Administration's positive approach toward the New Delhi–Kabul agreement signals that the U.S. has grown frustrated with Pakistani intransigence over Afghanistan and feels less compelled to respect Pakistani regional sensitivities. There is growing recognition within the Administration that the strategy of engagement and accommodation of Pakistani security concerns has not elicited cooperation from Islamabad. In short, U.S. officials have slowly realized that pressuring India (a country that shares many strategic objectives with the U.S.) to limit its role in Afghanistan in order to placate Pakistan (a country that harbors militants who attack U.S. forces) has contributed to undermining the overall U.S. strategy in the region.
China. Conflicting views in Indian policy circles about how to deal with a rising China also seem to be contributing to New Delhi's recent standoffish approach toward Washington. India and the U.S. are both hedging against Beijing's rapid rise. Their private dialogue on East Asia has reportedly been robust, and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has been clear about the U.S. desire to see India play a larger role in East Asia to offset growing Chinese military and economic might. India, however, has reacted cautiously to the U.S. public overtures, lest overt cooperation be seen as part of a China-containment policy.
There is a powerful line of reasoning in Indian strategic circles that argues that New Delhi should placate Beijing, including distancing itself from the U.S., since New Delhi is currently outmatched by Beijing's military and technological capacity. Most Indian strategists say it will be at least 10 years before India catches up with Chinese military capabilities. This was highlighted in a recent study by prominent Indian academics titled, "Nonalignment 2.0: A Foreign and Strategic Policy for India in the Twenty First Century." While the authors acknowledge that the U.S. and China will be global power centers and that a robust American maritime presence in the Asia–Pacific will help delay the projection of Chinese naval power in the Indian Ocean, it raises doubts about whether India would benefit from close ties with the U.S.[5]
The authors argue that it would be risky for India to rely too heavily on the U.S. since an Indo–U.S. strategic partnership "could become a casualty of any tactical upswing in Sino–American ties." They go on to state that the American alliance system is in decline and that it is uncertain "how the U.S. would respond if China posed a threat to India's interests." After the 2007 multilateral Malabar naval exercise in the Bay of Bengal stoked Chinese concerns, India reportedly curtailed these types of multilateral exercises. Indian officials apparently fear that such moves could provoke China and that the U.S. would not back India in a meaningful way if conflict were to erupt between New Delhi and Beijing.[6]
Critiquing the "Nonalignment 2.0" report, Indian strategist Bharat Karnad put it this way: "India is supposed to forsake meaningful partnerships with third countries…because it might anger Beijing, even as the Chinese proceed with implementing their wei qi [a Chinese board game] encirclement strategies." Karnad called this policy prescription "fatalistic and defeatist."[7]
Indian policymakers are formulating their own complex response to cope with the uncertainty surrounding a rising China, and the U.S. will have to temper its expectations of India accordingly. India is pursuing a robust diplomatic strategy emphasizing peaceful resolution of its border disputes and growing trade and economic ties, and at the same time embarking on an ambitious military modernization campaign and deployments with clear implications for its rivalry with China. Witness India's successful testing of the Agni-V intermediate-range nuclear-capable missile a few months ago—a weapon with direct relevance to deterring attack from China.
Despite progress on the Sino–Indian economic and trade front, border tensions continue to bedevil ties. Some Indian observers say that Beijing has backtracked on a 2005 border agreement in which both sides agreed that no areas with settled populations would be exchanged.[8] They cite official Chinese media referring to the Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh as "South Tibet" and Chinese protests against Indian official visits to the Tawang district of the state as signs that the Chinese are toughening their position on the territorial dispute.
India is also concerned with China's rapid military modernization, its increasing force projection capabilities, and its buildup of military infrastructure in Tibet.[9] The U.S. Director of National Intelligence, James Clapper, told a Senate committee in January that "we judge that India is increasingly concerned about China's posture along their disputed border and Beijing's perceived aggressive posture in the Indian Ocean and Asia-Pacific region."[10] Clapper went on to note that Indian military leaders do not believe that a major Sino–Indian conflict is imminent, and they continue to calculate that the overall probability of war is low. However, according to their assessment, China may be trying to enhance its bargaining position in their ongoing border negotiations or could be preparing for limited conflict along the border.
India also has memories of 1962 when it was caught off guard by Chinese border aggression. If Tibet becomes more volatile or unstable, the Chinese could lash out at India. India calculates that it must be prepared for the worst, while at the same time building economic and diplomatic ties.
One approach that India is taking as a way to balance Chinese power is to build up ties to other Southeast Asian nations, notably Vietnam. New Delhi's security partnership with Hanoi dates back a decade, and New Delhi has long understood the importance of Vietnam in the South China Sea and its potential to balance the Chinese naval presence in the Indian Ocean. Also with an eye on China, India is strengthening relations with Japan through increasing military contacts, maritime cooperation, and trade and investment ties. India, the U.S., and Japan recently concluded their second round of trilateral meetings.
Indian strategists worry that India is losing primacy in South Asia because of Chinese inroads into the region. Not only is China focusing on reinforcing ties with its traditional ally Pakistan, it is building economic relationships with Sri Lanka and Bangladesh and wielding more influence over Nepal on the Tibetan refugee question. India has also taken seriously the Chinese refusal to grant visas to Indian officials serving in Jammu and Kashmir. Beijing had demonstrated in recent years that it favored bilateral Indo–Pakistani negotiations to resolve their differences and had previously played a helpful role in preventing the outbreak of full-scale war between the two countries during the 1999 Kargil border conflict. However, by increasing its presence in Gilgit Baltistan and increasingly questioning Indian sovereignty over the areas of Jammu and Kashmir under New Delhi's control, the Chinese seem to be subtly upping the ante on India.
While a certain degree of Indian indecisiveness on how to effectively deal with China is understandable, Indian leaders need to ensure that their equivocation does not paralyze them or lead them to forgo good strategic options that maximize their security. A close relationship with the U.S.—not a military alliance—will help India maintain its long-held tradition of exercising strategic autonomy. Instead of keeping the U.S. at arm's distance, with the hope of placating the Chinese, India should be drawing closer to the U.S. in ways that solidify and build trust in the partnership, which will deter the Chinese from pursuing a more aggressive posture toward India.
In his recent article, "Managing Multipolarity: India's Security Strategy in a Changing World," Indian strategic affairs commentator C. Raja Mohan argues that the emerging regional and global distribution of power in favor of China will compel India to abandon its multidirectional engagement and deepen its strategic partnership with the U.S.[11] Mohan argues that India's success in balancing Chinese power in the region depends squarely on the quality of its relations with the U.S.—the only country capable of acting as offshore balancer against China. At the same time, Mohan cautions, India must reduce its vulnerability to the potential for changing dynamics in Sino–U.S. ties.
Iran. A major source of tension between Washington and New Delhi has been over how to deal with the Iranian pursuit of a nuclear weapons capability. India has a multifaceted relationship with Iran that is characterized by long-standing regional, historical, and cultural ties. While India opposes Iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons in principle, and supports U.N. sanctions against the country, it is reluctant to sacrifice cordial relations with Iran and resents U.S. pressure to fall in line with unilateral U.S. sanctions. New Delhi views ties to Tehran through its own regional context and believes it must maintain friendly relations in order to maintain access for its goods to Afghanistan, and to prevent Islamabad and Tehran from drawing closer. India currently ships goods to Afghanistan through the Iranian port at Chahbahar, since Pakistan does not allow Indian goods destined for Afghanistan to transit its territory.
India has tried hard to balance its burgeoning strategic partnership with the U.S. and its traditionally close relations with Iran. India has voted against Iran in three crucial votes at International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) meetings over the past six years. It also scrapped negotiations over an Iran–Pakistan–India energy pipeline under pressure from the U.S. India paid a price for these actions: After it voted against Iran at the IAEA board of governors' meetings in 2005 and 2006, Iran cancelled a 25-year $22 billion liquefied-natural-gas deal with terms highly favorable to India.
There also is a strong domestic lobby in India, primarily made up of the left-leaning parties, that supports good relations between India and Iran and bristles at U.S. pressure aimed at disrupting those ties. Because of this domestic pressure, Indian officials are reluctant to publicly support U.S. sanctions against Iran but have been willing to quietly reduce India's dependence on Iranian oil over the past few years. The U.S. announced two days before the start of the third round of Indo–U.S. strategic dialogue talks held in Washington in mid-June that it would waive sanctions against India, despite its continued reliance on Iranian oil imports. In the waiver, the U.S. acknowledged that India had "significantly" reduced its dependence on Iranian oil in recent years. India's crude imports from Iran have a steadily declining share in India's total oil imports: They have dropped from a level of more than 16 percent in 2009 to around 10 percent in 2012 and are expected to decline further in 2013.
The U.S.–India civil nuclear deal that was introduced in 2005 and approved by the Nuclear Suppliers Group in 2008 has been the centerpiece of improved U.S.–India ties over the past decade. The deal, which involved the U.S. spearheading a contentious international push to provide India access to nuclear fuel and technology for the first time in 35 years, is seen as the bedrock for the developing strategic partnership between the U.S. and India. But India's passage of legislation restricting U.S. companies' ability to compete for contracts in the civil nuclear sector has angered some U.S. officials that went to tremendous lengths to convince a skeptical international community of the merits of the deal.
Washington had hoped that the Indian government would pass legislation establishing an internationally compliant civil nuclear liability regime that would facilitate U.S. investment in India's nuclear industry. Such legislation would have been the last step in completing the U.S.–India civil nuclear deal. U.S. policymakers and industrial leaders were thus taken off guard when legislation (titled the Civil Liability for Nuclear Damage Bill) containing language inconsistent with international standards for engaging in nuclear commerce passed the Indian parliament in August 2010. The law includes language that makes suppliers of equipment, raw materials, and services liable—beyond the recourse already available through the courts—in the unlikely event of a nuclear accident.
The legislation represented a failure of New Delhi to uphold its end of the civil nuclear agreement. Some, however, point to progress in discussions between India and U.S. industry on civil nuclear projects as a sign of the interest and intent of U.S. companies to eventually participate in the Indian market, despite the current unfavorable legal environment. Westinghouse and the Nuclear Power Corporation of India Limited (NPCIL) signed a preliminary pact to negotiate an Early Works Agreement (EWA) to construct a nuclear power plant in the state of Gujarat. The vice president of Westinghouse India said the agreement was an important step in allowing Westinghouse and NPCIL to keep the project moving forward.[12]
The preliminary agreement notwithstanding, there is still a lingering sense in U.S. policy circles that Washington gained little from the civil nuclear deal. Only time will tell whether U.S. companies will benefit from the deal and whether it leads to greater cooperation between the two countries in stemming global proliferation. From India's perspective, the problem of liability has been exacerbated by the Fukushima disaster and anti-nuclear protests that have threatened the opening of the Russian-built Kudankulam reactor and development of the site at Jaitapur, where the French plan to construct a civil nuclear plant.[13]
U.S.–India defense ties have grown rapidly over the past decade, but still fall short of what they should be. Indian suspicions at the bureaucratic level, as well as deep-seated post-colonial Indian fears of U.S. hegemony, persist. India's decision to buy French, rather than American, fighter jets to fulfill its order for 126 medium multirole combat aircraft (MMRCA) does not necessarily portend a deterioration in relations. Given the institutional relationships engendered by U.S. arms sales, however, the decision does represent a significant lost opportunity to advance the strategic relationship.
Despite the MMRCA setback, the U.S. has signed nearly $8 billion in defense contracts with India over the past few years, including for C-130J and C-17 transport aircraft and P-81 maritime surveillance aircraft. America is now the largest arms seller to India, with Israel second and Russia third. Moscow is still viewed as New Delhi's most reliable partner when it comes to acquiring the most strategic of capabilities, as evidenced by Russia's willingness to assist India with its missile and nuclear-capable submarine development.[14]
A congressionally mandated Department of Defense report on U.S.–India defense cooperation released last fall[15] highlighted the enhanced and multifaceted defense cooperation between the two nations, including extensive training exercises, numerous defense deals, and increasing operational cooperation, particularly between the two navies. The report's offer to provide India with information on the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter also sent a signal that the U.S. considers India one of its most important future defense partners and is willing to consider co-production of some of its most sophisticated defense technology.
Indian strategic planners often see eye to eye with their U.S. counterparts on threats in the region but are reluctant to develop combined approaches to mitigate these threats.
There is a perception in Washington that New Delhi is focused primarily on technology acquisition rather than discussing strategically significant issues with U.S. counterparts. Such discussions could address force posture, power projection, and command and control. The Indian defense bureaucracy tends to view U.S. interest in these issues with suspicion and has been reluctant to expand dialogue with its U.S. counterparts beyond a certain point.[16] The complex nature of the Indian military acquisition process and its lack of connection to overall strategic planning have also contributed to limiting the scope of U.S.–India military planning discussions. Some Indian analysts, such as Rajeswari Pillai Rajagopalan, have noted there would be benefits to both sides in sharing military data on a more regular basis and in planning joint responses to potential threats in the region.[17]
There is a major disconnect between the U.S. and India when it comes to the issue of sensitive technology transfers. Washington views itself as relatively forthcoming on this front, while New Delhi perceives Washington as giving it short shrift and denying India access to sensitive U.S. equipment. According to the U.S. State Department, less than 1 percent of export-control licenses are denied to India.[18] The U.S. has also identified India as one of the countries that will benefit from the Pentagon's ongoing efforts to reform rules and regulations that govern U.S. defense exports.[19] In July, U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said that Washington wanted to work with New Delhi to streamline each country's respective bureaucratic processes to encourage more defense trade and designated his deputy, Ashton Carter, as the point person for the job.
In January 2011, the U.S. removed export controls on several Indian space and defense-related organizations. By removing several subsidiaries of India's Defense Research and Development Organization and the Indian Space Research Organization from the Department of Commerce's "Entities List" barring export of certain dual-use technologies, Washington followed through on a key pledge that President Obama made during a visit to India in November 2010. The U.S. took the additional step of removing India from several other export-control lists that had referred to India as a "country of concern" and placed it in a preferential category that consists mainly of members of the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR).
A major hurdle to improving Indian–U.S. defense relations is Indian reluctance to sign end-use monitoring agreements that the U.S. requires for ensuring protection of its sensitive technology. India views such agreements as overly intrusive. Some in the Indian military believe that the U.S. would use the agreements to surreptitiously examine Indian equipment, while others are concerned that, since Pakistan has signed some of the same agreements with the U.S., Indian security could be inadvertently compromised.[20] U.S. South Asia specialist Christopher Clary has pointed out that, while a logistics supply agreement (LSA) is considered a pro forma agreement that the U.S. has concluded with 75 other nations, many Indians erroneously believe it would give the U.S. basing rights in India.[21]
India clearly has no interest in developing a defense relationship with the U.S. along the lines of what the U.S. has developed with Japan, South Korea, and Australia. The two countries' long history of suspicion means that changes in India toward greater defense cooperation with the U.S. will come more slowly than the U.S. may have initially hoped.
There are still major benefits that the U.S. is likely to accrue by pursuing cooperation with India. While Indian policymakers publicly waffle on their approach to dealing with a rising China, they privately hold similar views to those of the U.S. and reportedly have been forthcoming with the U.S. in private discussions on Asia–Pacific security issues. The two countries will continue to have differences on how to deal with Iran, but India has demonstrated it is willing—albeit grudgingly—to take the necessary steps to tighten the sanctions noose on Tehran.
One question that the two countries need to ponder is whether they desire the partnership to be merely convergent or truly and intentionally strategic. A convergent relationship simply involves both sides recognizing overlapping interests, and otherwise accepting the limits to the partnership. A strategic partnership, on the other hand, would require both the U.S. and India to seek out concrete ways to cooperate on issues of importance to the other in furtherance of the larger strategic goals.
It is important for both sides to try to regain the momentum in ties that has been lost in the past few years. Otherwise, leaders in Washington may begin to view previous U.S. references to India as the "the most important partner for the U.S. in the twenty-first century" as mere hyperbole and both sides will fail to realize the true potential of the relationship at the expense of both countries' long-term security interests. Specifically:
India and the U.S. should accept that their partnership will not always reach the full expectations of either side. Still, the growing strategic challenge presented by a rising China and the two countries' shared democratic values will inevitably drive them to increase cooperation. At times—such as now—it will be necessary for each side to go the extra mile to maintain confidence in relations. For example, the U.S. should work to allay Indian concerns vis-à-vis Afghanistan and India, for its part, should align its nuclear liability legislation with internationally accepted nuclear liability rules. If each side demonstrates a willingness to collaborate on issues of core importance to the other, each will demonstrate that it has a genuine interest in developing a strategic partnership—not merely finding convergence on selected issues.
—Lisa Curtis is Senior Research Fellow for South Asia in the Asian Studies Center at The Heritage Foundation.
Show references in this report
[1]Gregory Wallace, "In New Ad, Obama Hits Romney Over Outsourcing," CNN.com, July 7, 2012, http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/07/in-new-ad-obama-hits-romney-over-outsourcing/ (accessed August 6, 2012).
[2]Aziz Haniffa, "That Rejected Feeling," India Abroad, February 14, 2012, http://www.indiaabroad-digital.com/indiaabroad/20120224/?pg=8#pg8 (accessed August 6, 2012).
[3]Tom Hamburger, Carol D. Leonnig, and Zachary A. Goldfarb, "Obama's Record on Outsourcing Draws Criticism from the Left," The Washington Post, July 9, 2012, http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/obamas-record-on-outsourcing-draws-criticism-from-the-left/2012/07/09/gJQAljJCZW_story.html (accessed August 6, 2012).
[4]Christopher Clary, "Will India Ever Really Be America's Partner?" Foreign Policy, June 11, 2012, http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/06/11/will_india_ever_really_be_americas_partner (accessed August 6, 2012).
[5]Sunil Khilnani, Rajiv Kumar, Pratap Bhanu Mehta, Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Prakash Menon, Nandan Nilekani, Srinath Raghavan, Shyam Saran, and Siddharth Varadarajan, "Nonalignment 2.0: A Foreign and Strategic Policy for India in the Twenty First Century," 2012, at http://www.cprindia.org/sites/default/files/NonAlignment%202.0_1.pdf (accessed August 6, 2012).
[6]Clary, "Will India Ever Really Be America's Partner?"
[7]Bharat Karnad, "Roadmap for Second-Rate Power Status for India: Response to Quasi-Official Foreign Policy Document—'Nonalignment 2.0,'" March 4, 2012, http://bharatkarnad.com/2012/03/04/response-to-nonalignment-2-0-a-regressive-foreign-policy-roadmap/ (accessed August 6, 2012).
[8]Bhaskar Roy, "India in China's New Assertiveness," South Asia Analysis Group Paper No. 4930, February 23, 2012, http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpapers50%5Cpaper4930.html (accessed August 6, 2012).
[9]Yogesh Joshi, "Reluctant India, Rising China and Alliance Politics in the Asia-Pacific," East-West Center Asia Pacific Bulletin No. 162, April 26, 2012, http://www.eastwestcenter.org/sites/default/files/private/apb162_0.pdf (accessed August 6, 2012).
[10]James R. Clapper, "Worldwide Threat Assessment of the US Intelligence Community for the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence," Director of National Intelligence statement for the record, January 31, 2012, p. 12, http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2012_hr/013112clapper.pdf (accessed August 6, 2012).
[11]C. Raja Mohan, "Managing Multipolarity: India's Security Strategy in a Changing World," in "India's Security Challenges at Home and Abroad," National Bureau of Asian Research Special Report No. 39,May 2012, http://www.nbr.org/publications/specialreport/pdf/SR39_India_Security_Challenges.pdf (accessed August 6, 2012).
[12]"US Firm Westinghouse Signs MoU for Building Nuclear Plants in India," Business Today, June 14, 2012, http://businesstoday.intoday.in/story/us-firm-westinghouse-signs-mou-on-india-nuke-plant/1/185448.html (accessed August 14, 2012).
[13]Kanwal Sibal, "The Arc of the India–US Partnership," Indian Defence Review, Vol. 27, No. 2 (April–June 2012), http://www.indiandefencereview.com/spotlights/the-arc-of-the-india-us-partnership/ (accessed August 6, 2012).
[14]C. Uday Bhaskar, "The Strategic Context of India-US Defense Relations," ORF Seminar Series,Vol. 1, No. 7 (April 2012), p. 4.
[15]U.S. Department of Defense, "Report to Congress on U.S.–India Security Cooperation," November 2011, http://www.defense.gov/pubs/pdfs/20111101_NDAA_Report_on_US_India_Security_Cooperation.pdf (accessed August 8, 2012).
[16]Lisa Curtis, Walter Lohman, Rory Medcalf, Lydia Powell, Rajeswari Pillai Rajagopalan, and Andrew Shearer, "Shared Goals, Converging Interests: A Plan for U.S.–Australia–India Cooperation in the Indo-Pacific,"November 3, 2011, http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/11/shared-goals-converging-interests-a-plan-for-u-s-australia-india-cooperation-in-the-indo-pacific (accessed August 6, 2012).
[17]Rajeswari Pillai Rajagopalan, "Why U.S. Needs India's Air Force," The Diplomat, November 29, 2011, http://thediplomat.com/2011/11/29/why-u-s-needs-indias-air-force/ (accessed August 6, 2012).
[18]"Roundtable with Assistant Secretary of State Andrew Shapiro," Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, April 24, 2012, http://carnegieendowment.org/2012/04/24/roundtable-with-assistant-secretary-of-state-andrew-shapiro/aib7 (accessed August 6, 2012).
[19]"India to Benefit Most from Reformed Defence Exports Rules: US," Business Standard, June 29, 2012, http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/india-to-benefit-mostreformed-defence-exports-rules-us/176786/on (accessed August 6, 2012).
[20]Samir Advani, "Prospects for Bilateral Cooperation: Co-Development Possibilities with the US," ORF Seminar Series,Vol. 1, No. 7 (April 2012), p. 19.
[21]Clary, "Will India Ever Really Be America's Partner?"


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Topic: Why the need for more than one model?
Hey everyone, rails newbie here.
One issue I am having trouble wrapping my head around: Let's say you are building a simple news application, where users can add comments onto the end of news submitted by an administrator. If you have an "admin" controller, which has add, edit and delete functionality for comments, what need is there for a "user" controller? Can you not just create "user" displays, and reuse the admin controller's facilities?
I am working through the "Agile web development with rails" book, and understand in the shopping cart scenario how a user and an administrator have different models and controllres, as users don't do the same action as admins.
Thanks -