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Chase Utley and Placido Polanco have been placed on the 15-day disabled list.
Chase sprained his right thumb in last night's game as he was thrown out attempting to stretch a single into a double via a head first slide.
Placido, who has been nursing a right elbow injury, received a cortisone shot on Monday. Unfortunately it did not help. He will likely need surgery in the offseason, but the Phils hope some rest will at least get him to game-shape.
Greg Dobbs and Brian Bocock have been recalled and will join the team in Cincinnati.
96 Comments
Greg Dobbs???? WTF?????!!!!!!!
Joe Crede is still a free agent.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here
well…uhh…that happened.
Not only do we get Dobbs red hot bat, we get more of his stellar fielding at 3rd.
"3rd Base Dobbs" is the worst kind! Run!
No no no, not Dobbs again. Come oooooon. Okay NOW you can say I'm whining, Chuck.
And worst of all – and I apologize before I even say his name but I think folks should know it's being said – Ken Rosenthal has said the Mets are likely going to get . . . yes, Clifton Phifer Lee.
This is a really deeply baaad day.
I just tossed –
They made it to the playoffs without Utley for 2 months in 07, and I think they can make to the playoffs this season too. Also, another positive thing is that this is right near the All-Star break, so they get a few more days to heal.
Dobbs? You gotta be s#itti** me! puleeze.
I really don't give 2 sh*ts about Cliff Lee right now…
Because even if we DID have him on the team…it has ZERO to do with the injuries to the everyday lineup.
As for Dobbs, I was REALLY happy when he was sent down, and I can't understand why guys like Ransom get passed over for. Isn't that what he (Ransom) was brought to the organization for in the first place??…to come up when it was needed and show what he's got??
Well…let's just cheer for Dobbs….maybe he will make the most of this opportunity and get it together??
This is the beginning of the end for the Phillies
It could be just what the Phillies need.
There's always "unsung heroes" that we never think about until they show us what they can do.
I'm with Chuck. Remember Iguchi in 07?
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I don't think this is just what the Phils need, Chuck.
This is bad, bad news. Still A LOT of season left… Utley, Polanco, Happ need to come back strong, and quickly.
Dobbs and Bocock are NOT those guys — they've shown that.
Atkins and Ben Francisco might be. No interest. Not using them.
Hey maybe it can be a chance for the Phills to rebuild their farm system, trading werth, Ibanez, rollins, and Moyer, just think about it, it will better their future, can't win every season.
In light of this news, I vote the gameday beer to be Uncle Cholly's favorite: a bottle of VO
Hang in guys. Nobody said it was going to be easy.
To early to think about rebuilding, especially with how the Phils have played down the stretch the last few years. These two injuries really sting though. Just gotta keep the faith.
Of course an offering to the baseball gods never hurt either…
Get rid of the those 2 ex-mets, they brought the injury jinx with them!!!!
Bocock in Lehigh Valley: .179/.239/.231…7 extra base hits in 237 plate appearances
Ransom in Lehigh Valley: .238/.311/.470… 32 extra base hits in 316 plate appearances
Why is Bocock getting the call? What's the point of even having Ransom is he isn't gettin called in this situation and a stiff like Bocock is?
Don't puke, but the Phils could probably get Pedro Feliz for a bag of balls. Stros would pay a lot of his salary as well since he's on the pine. Despite his bad year he's still hitting over .280 against lefties. Get creative Rube and bring back Feliz and Meyers.
See that's the problem with you Phillie fans, don't know when to quit huh, why continue to compete, the Mets are a pitcher, and Beltran away from taking the division, the Braves are slightly better than them at the moment, why not boost the farm system, get something for werth, he'll be gone anyway, Rollins, and Ibanez are getting old, and Moyer I mean he's been a beast but seriously why keep him, why add on to the payroll, they should build around, Howard, Utely, and Halladay, oh and Victorino.
Good thing these guys will be back for the 2nd half …. when we start to play .600 ball again every year!!
Now you guys know how if feels watching you team have so much injuries, couldn't bare watching the Mets last season for that reason
Hey Don by the time they come back, the Braves, and Mets will probably be well ahead in the division.
Sure, they made the playoffs without Utley for two months. But at the time, they still had their third baseman, all their starters and relievers, and a decent backup at second. That's a BIG difference.
Also that year, Rollins wasn't coming off an injury which is known to have long-term effects.
The Phils will now be playing games with three bench warmers in the lineup (unless Ruiz is fully recovered, then it's STILL two), an emergency starter in the rotation, and no regular set-up man in the 'pen. Although I'm usually optimistic about this team, I no longer think they stand much chance this year. It's not time to rebuild, though.
Beltran isn't helping any Major League team this year…
Pelfrey is currently having his career year, Maine is done, and Dickey got figured out last night ..
Mets will be lucky to win 85 games this year… especially because they'll have to play in September, the month in which their "team leaders" seem to play tight, cause too many errors, etc..
Whats the difference between the 2009 Mets and 2010 Phillies? Even after all these injuries, the Phillies still have a winning record, and still have a fighting chance to win the division. Whats the difference between 2009 Mets fans and 2010 Phillies fans? in 2008 Mets fans kept saying, "if only we didnt have these injuries" (kept blaming injuries). 2010 Phillies fans keep asking why the TEAM is playing like CRAP, not pointing a relatively mediocre record (mediocre for the Phillies, but a really good record for the Mets, hmm I guess Phillies fans have higher expectations than 2nd or 3rd place for their team) has much to do with injuries. Either way, Bocock and Dobbs couldnt even make the Pirates roster I would say. We have plenty of other talent to bring up. Is Charlie, or RAJ giving up? It almost feels like even after breaking out of the slump, and looking much better, one of both of them are giving up. I dont know why they would, and I cant explain why it feels like that. Cant wait for Happ to get back. Hopefully he is the Happ we all knew and loved in 2009 regular season.
Dont look know MysteryMet, but even after a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE stretch of looking like the 2009 Mets, the Phillies are still WELL withing striking distance. What are the Phillies back now, like 5.5 games? maybe 4.5 games. DUH.
I meant dont look NOW
Ya know, I am really going to enjoy it when the Mets go on their 11 game death march out to the West Coast after the All Star breakand are in third by a healthy margin by the time they return to that ugly money pit they call a home stadium
Also, isn't it about time for Reyes' annual trip to the DL for a hamstring issue?
And why not George, the guys I mention will probably be gone by a season, or two.
When do we give the Steve Jeltz Award to Ruben Amaro? He's given all of these multi-year deals to players who are at best in the midrange of their careers and who have probably peaked in performance while at the same time unloading what was left in our farm system.
Is it too late to get Mike Arbuckle back?
How can you not be optimistic, or at least have some hope? It's only 10 games without 2 players. Even if we go 4-6, we will still be no more than 4.5 GB the Braves.
We've overcome way larger deficits before.
Well if it was going to happen now is as good as time as any. With the Phills having two against cincy and then 4 against pitt on the road followed by a 7 game homestand against cincy and braves the Phills should be ok as long as they hit even with the subs.
So while Rollins was out … and Utley, and Werth weren't hitting at all …
those teams didn't run away with the division, but Polanco is out again, and Utley on the 15-day DL .. and suddenly the Mets and Braves are taking the division by the All-Star break?
Mets are improved, but they sure as hell don't scare anyone..
Even if the Mets get Lee, I still wouldn't be worried about them. As long as that joke of an Ace Santana is up at #1, I'm not worried.
Ibanez was pretty far from "Midrange in his career" last year ….. and without him putting up MVP numbers in the 1st half of last season, and carrying our team until Howard took the torch in the 2nd half …. we wouldn't have even made the playoffs, let alone a 2nd straight World Series
Yeah Brian your right, but the Mets had the whole team last year injured, the Phills have a guy here and there getting injured, the Phills are a good team, but I was just suggesting to rebuild, what's so wrong about thinking about the future huh, what you think Moyer, rollins, Ibanez is getting younger or something.
really nickfrom germantown? Can we say Halladay, Lee in 2009, Ruiz (granted he is injured) prior to Polanco getting injured he was looking pretty darn good. Do you honestly expect a GM to have EVERY SINGLE DEAL turn out to be a blockbuster. Think about it. You also talk about "unloading what was left in our farm system". Let me ask this, do you like Having Roy Halladay on the Phillies? Did you like watching Halladay pitch a perfect game? Do you realize if the Phillies had scored at least 3 runs in every one of his starts, he would have what 2 or 3 losses now? If you said yes to any of that, then get a clue. The "farm system" (which still does have talent even though you dont think so) is unloaded MOSTLY because of the Halladay deal, not to mention the Lee deal in 2009, how did he do?
And before you bash RAJ for not keeping both, think about all the money to keep all of them. We would have kept him for 1 year, with no chance to sign nother pitcher (even if Blanton has been below expectations) The Phillies basically would have had both for 2010, and seeing his injuries and some of his outings, and seeing the worse than usual streak the Phillies got on, that wouldnt have helped. But I guess people need to complain about something.
Greg your an idiot, everyone knows Santana is a 2nd half pitcher, so lets say the Mets do get Lee, doesn't that really make them a scary team to hit against, Pelfrey is a beast, Niese got his shit together, Lee is a killer, and no one for some reason can score on Dickey, plus the Mets are getting Beltran back, why wouldn't they be a scary team to play against.
Who of the Mets starters were injured? Reyes, Beltran and one other? Gee thats really the entire team isnt it. Last time I checked the Mets still had 2 out of 3 starters in the outfield, 2 out of 4 startes in the infield, and the starting catcher. Hmm so that was 3 players out. Since when is 3 players the "whole team" LOL. Nice try though, try again. How about the starters and bullpen? The Phillies have not had their entire Pitching staff intact yet this season. Lidge, Happ Blanton and Romero started on the DL, Madson went before they got back, Back, Happ is still out, sent another to the DL, and yet Phillies fans dont make excuses for the injury's for not looking good, we ask why they play like crap regardless of who is in. LOL Pretty bad argument.
Dude last I check, Wright had time in the Dl, Franceour, had time, Santana, Niese, Castillo, see you don't know cuz you just keep up with the Phills, but the Mets had a horrible injury prone season, so check the records before you start writing nonsense
Brian you really think the Phills starters can outpitch the Mets, other than Hallladay, last I checked the Mets left the Phills with no runs, and the Mets swept them, and now it's said that the Mets are getting Lee, that would equally your precious Halladay, so how exactly are the Phills going to pull out of this one.
"You feeling lucky Punk, well do ya"
Ouch… on one hand, Utley has been slumping mightily (he has hit 1 HR since May 21st; that's 1 HR in 34 games… 1 HR in his last 144 plate appearances and 1 more HR than I have over that stretch) and a rest might turn his season around. On the other hand, the replacement value couldn't be much lower for these two players. Juan Castro, Wilson Valdez, Greg Dobbs and Brian Bococki aren't worth the sweat on Utley/Polanco's collective jock strap. It's going to hurt the team but maybe it's worth it if he can rest up and come back with a clean bill of health. If there's any time that I would want to see him on the 15 day DL, it's right now (before the AS break). Polanco's elbow has really been nagging him… wonder if that long throw from 3rd has anything to do with it.
In any event… if we can get to the all-star break within striking distance (<5 GB), there's no reason to panic. August and September are typically when this team turns it on; that's typically when the big man says, "Jump on my back and let me take you to the promised land." I expect nothing less than another Division Title.
Ransom's .238 isn't all that much better than Bocock's .179, particularly coupled with his bad reputation on defense. There are always other considerations, too, like attitude, speed and baserunning skills, a team's ability to option without having to DFA a player, etc. I don't really know these two players, but I'm sure the Phils do, and have made the correct decision on who to bring up.
Oh yeah Delgado, Church, Maine, Perez, should I keep going, and the Mets weren't out of it until Beltran was officially gone, so shut Brian
Brian Sr.,
I give Amaro credit for the 1st Lee deal. I think that was one of, if not, his best deal. Everything else he has done has been signing current players to long extensions (Blanton, Victorino, Howard, etc.), signing FAs early before the market is set and losing, signing bum bench players and bullpen arms for much more than they're worth, and emptying out our farm system (yes, we do have some good players down – Brown, Cosart, Singleton, etc., but our overall system is ranked in the bottom 3rd among all major league teams).
Amaro was given the most ideal position for a GM – a championship caliber major league team, a respectable farm system, plenty of room in payroll due to increase revenues and he's squandered every advantage he has had. When he took over, he had a clear objective, keep the core of this team together (the core, not the entire team), while refreshing the expensive role players with more affordable young, cost-controlled players, and make the occasional FA signing or mid-season trade to put us over the top for getting into the playoffs. Either he wasn't giving the marching orders or he just isn't very good at his job. I'll assume it's the latter.
For the record, the Met's of last year had historic numbers in terms of games missed by their starters. Everyone on the DL currently for the Phillies could stay there for the rest of the season and not approach what the Met's had last year.
Secondly, as bad as this is…and this is bad, the Phillies still have winnable games, and an all star break thrown in there to help this all out.
And lastly, as much as I expect the Mets to roll over come September, I am not certain that they will anymore.
Injured Phillies so far: Rollins, Polanco, Utley, Ruiz, Castro, Bastardo, Durbin, Madson, Happ, Lidge, Blanton.
Don't worry though, Pedro will be back soon, injured players will heal and they'll win the division.
Side note: How many yen for Tadahito Iguchi?
Peter Gammons was on WFAN today and killing the Phillies. He is so right. Said first they did nothing before the season to better there bench. He said they did it very cheaply. Then he said they got CRUSHED in the Lee deal. After stealing him they got robbed on the deal to Seattle. Saying those players will never be MLB ready. Should of just kept him for the season for the 9 million then let him go. You could of even held on to him in spring training and shopped him around for a better package. He also killed Jr for the Howard deal. He said he should of waited for his current deal to end. His power is decreasing and will as he gets older. The Phillies have no minor league prospects after getting rid of all of them for Doc. SAD
Where are you Brian Sr, you idiot, cat got your tongue, don't have anything to say huh, did I shut you up, come on say something back yourself up.
See that's what I've been trying to tell you Phills fans, they should sell this year, they still have talent they could build around like Victorino, Utley, and Halladay, build the farm system again.
Brian Sr: What other talent should the Phils have brought up? Domonic Brown is an OUTFIELDER, he doesn't play third or second. Niether do Gillies or Gose. Freddy Galvis isn't ready, and most the rest of the decent prospects are pitchers.
Brian Sr of CO, just stop.
The deal sending Lee to Seattle was, is, and will continue to be an abortion and no amount of hand-waving on your part is going to change that. The fact is that RAJ traded away an all-star caliber number 1 pitcher for three nobodies. A team 2 wins away from winning the world series doesn't remove that kind of a player if you're serious about making a run at a Championship. Further, his stated reason for dumping Lee – that he needed to restock a depleted farm system – is an absolute joke, since the players he got back in return are going to be lucky to ever get a cup of coffee in the majors.
And, please, don't use the "…think about all the money to keep all of them" defense. Anyone who's watched RAJ hand out one overpriced contract after another (Moyer, Ibanez, picking up Rollins' option, Howard's extension, etc. etc.) is just going to be insulted by such a weak argument.
Mystery… what the eff are you talking about?
Peter Gammons touches little boys in the greater Boston-area
Tonight's lineup @ CIN: Victorino CF, Dobbs 3B, Rollins SS, Howard 1B, Werth RF, Ibanez LF, Schneider C, Valdez 2B, Blanton P.
Why the hell wouldn't it be:
Rollins SS, Victorino CF, Werth RF, Howard 1B, Ibañez LF, Schneider C, Valdez 2B, A Brick Wall 3B, Blanton P. ?
Why the hell have a .100 hitter in the 2-hole? The Brick Wall could do more!
Brian Sr. of CO, come on man. Let's review a few things.
It's amazing how Raul's half MVP season continues to define him here in Philadelphia. Yes, he's a nice character guy. Yes, he put up some good numbers. The problem is though that the Phillies signed Raul Ibanez to a 3-year deal. It's not first half of 2009 anymore.
Moyer is working to redeem himself now, but 2009 was a blackhole of performance given his pay (ERA+ 87) and how unfavorably he acted when put in the 'pen. He is currently below average with his ERA+ of 97.
Polanco brings a lot to the table, but the problem is that he signed a 3-year deal when he was 34. I don't know if it's age, but injuries have nagged him this year.
The Lidge deal was terrible. Too long for too much. In retrospect (which I know is unfair), if he walked, we'd have more potential in the draft with a 1st round pick and almost anyone would have done better than him.
The Ryan Howard deal is a massive potential problem. Too much, for too long, with a terrible buyout, and the deal came too soon. I hope I am wrong about that overall though. We don't need Lenny Dykstra Part 2.
Lee in 2009 was great and so is Halladay in 2010, but you need to look at what the cost of that is. What if the cost of unloading the farm for 2 years of winning impacts us 5-10 years down the line? Sounds like a long time, but what if we get bad and people stop buying tickets? That Howard contract doesn't look so great anymore, does it?
At this point, I don't know why he bothered getting rid of Lee. The whole point was to not mortgage the future, although Amaro seems to be doing that already. Is his goal to try to build the oldest World Series Champion of all-time? What is he doing? Why did they try to make Aumont a starter again? Few things have made sense during Amaro's tenure, unless you think signing guys who have already peaked to too much for too long is a good strategy.
I really hope that I am wrong on Amaro and that he proves himself over time, but at this point too much has happened to continue giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Brick Wall was placed on the 15-day DL this afternoon
When will people understand that ownership dictated that RAJ could choose who he could have: Halladay for 3 years at a good price or Lee for one year @ 9M. Not both. He made his choice. Its on ownership that Lee is not here, not on Ruben. The signings of Blanton and Shane were good ones. The signings of Jamie and Ibanez were bad ones. We gave up nothing for Cliff Lee the first time around. I don't think that RAJ is particularly astute at putting together a bench but one might wanna consider that any prospective bench guy might be hesitant to play here because they know Charlie doesn't play his reserves.
Personally, I like RAJ. I think he has guts to take action and to make tough choices. He takes crap for the Lee to Seattle deal and he doesn't shy away from it. RE: his total body of work with trades, signings, etc – its just OK. But he did make his bones on the first Cliff deal when he told the Jays to shove it and then went and got Lee. That was beautiful. That got him a lot of currency in Philadelphia.
The Dipsy
For the record, I think and have always thought that RAJ would be the death of this team, nothing he has done so far has made me change from that stance, in fact, it's only increased me feelings.
However, the one thing I don't really fault RAJ for is the bench. He did a good job and went out and revamped his bench. Yes he did it on the cheap but who doesn't? Name one team whose INF is making 5-10 mil? The problem is that a team with a good bench is a team whose bench plays. And that, lays on the shoulders of Charlie.
Also, Jim Salisbury seems to think Utley could be out for months and not weeks.
God I hate Peter Gammons. I can't believe he actually gets paid for his so-called "thoughts." It's shocking.
Am I the only one who finds it staggering that someone who calls themselves a "Mets fan" spends their day on a Phillies fan site?Seriously, are you deranged? Get yourself to Bellevue, my man. You have a date with a lobotomist.
Total over-reaction. Which bad bat are you going to bring up? Big deal. The rest may help Ultey heal from other injuries, just stay @ 500 while he and PP are out. Castro and Valdez are going to get the majority of the time at 3rd and 2nd.
The only problem is Rollins may not get much rest – I'd take an extra few losses now then losing him again – hope Charlie sits him every 4th game until he's fully recovered.
Leading off with Vic, Dobbs 2nd, Rollins 3rd. I'm not a fan of Vic at lead-off, would rather have kept Rollins there, moved up Howard to 3rd, Werth 4th.
Don M – looks like someone grabbed your tag.
Peter Gammons is an idiot if he thinks Amaro didn't address the bench. Schnieder and Gload were upgrades, and although Castro hasn't been great, he's still been better than Bruntlett. Bench players aren't supposed to be expensive, because, guess what, THEY'RE BENCH PLAYERS! I also doubt the Phils could have gotten anything better in the spring, considering that Lee was on the DL at the time.
I ask you, Jeff, is Gammons an MLB scout, or is he a reporter confusing news with opinion?
And also, Jeff, please note that it is "should HAVE" and "could HAVE," not "should OF," "could OF." That's the kind of English that makes me think you're an idiot, too.
Amaro isn't a very good GM. The Lee deal was fantastic the first time and a travesty to give him to Seattle, he's been just about the best pitcher in baseball this year. I've have come to the person conclusion that the Halladay deal was definitely worthwhile if you disregard the Lee portion, but Amaro has made too many mistakes. Howard's extension, singing Ibanez, the sad sad bench, not resigning Meyers, and I like Polanco but I think he could've gotten 2 years.
Howard's contract is going to be a big weight in 4 years.
It makes little sense that a trade-off between Lee and Halladay would be top-down given the contract that Howard was awarded.
Also, unless they forced his hand, the fact is that Amaro should have done a better job shopping Lee. Once again, retrospect is unfair, but we clearly lost scouting talent when Mike Arbuckle packed his bags for Kansas City.
So signing two gloves that were better than Bruntlett (Castro and Valdez)
Brining in a backup Catcher that is much better than Coste (Schneider)
an OF/ Lefty PH that is way better than Stairs (Gload)
Ben Francisco was added last year by Ruben.. and he held onto the guy that in 2008 was the best pinch hitter in all of baseball in Dobbs
Someone explain to me how that counts as "Nothing to better their bench?"
How was losing MYers, not Meyers, a bad thing? Sure, he's having a good year in Houston, but guess what, his attitude here was atrocious, and clearly he wasn't wanted. Polanco wouldn't have signed for 2 years, Evan, that's why they gave him the third. Like The Dipsy said, Amaro had to choose, Lee for 1 year, or Halladay for 3. Which would you choose, Evan? Also, what's sad about our bench? Gload's been a very respectable lefty off the bench, and has played well at first while Howard was DH'ing. Castro's filled in nicely, better than Eric Bruntlett, at least.
To whomever stated that Utley may be out a month, (I know you were quoting someone, but I'm just saying this generally), just think about that for a second. IF all it is is a sprain, it won't take more than 2 weeks, one would think. I've sprained my foot and was still able to run quite well after about 1 and a half weeks. Utley's tough. He was playing through a thumb injury the day it happened. I guarantee the second he's eligible to come off the DL, he will, because he wants to play.
Interesting point Nick…I have long said that losing Arbuckle would be bad for this team because he was so good at evaluating talent among other things. I hope Arbuckle can help to turn it around in K.C.
As for the Lee trade…I almost feel like it had to happen when it did. Look at how pissed people are still about the trade, imagine if Lee and Halladay were actually penciled in to the rotation together for more than 24 hours? The town would have revolted.
Also, I don't think they shopped Lee around because they wanted to give him to a mediocre team that they wouldn't have to worry about come October. It would have been easy to trade Lee to the Mets, Yankees, Red sox, or any contending team, but it would have only hurt the Phillies in the long run.
I'm not sure why everyone trashes the contracts Amaro has given out. It certainly wasn't his fault that Lidge had a bad, injury plagued year; a good closer gets $10-12 million. And Moyer, despite age and some questionable sabermetrics numbers keeps winning games. ( the most on the team since he's been a Phillie). There are more expensive starters with better so-called stats who don't win, even on good offensive teams. Blanton and Victorino are in their prime years (29-32). One might make an argument that Ibanez was a bad deal, but the year isn't even half over. One might argue that Howard will go down hill, but one might also argue that he won't, and that other 1st basemen will soon be making just as much. And Polanco's problems have nothing to do with age; he was conked on the elbow with a Tim Hudson pitch.
I also wonder why everyone trashes the Lee deal so much. These prospects were condemned before they even played an inning in the Phils' system, and they're all so young it's too early to pass that kind of judgment.
prime years… 29-32… hilarious
Greg…that would be me, I mentioned Utley being out a month. Salisbury was quoting Scott Proefrock, the assistant GM who said Utley was sent home to get 2nd and 3rd opinions because surgery was not out of the question. And with surgery comes a longer wait time.
Not like this team is completely upfront about injuries…Happ was said to be out for a week or two…what's it been? Two months?
in 2006, Mike Arbuckle told me directly that Joe Bisenius was the next big thing …
most of you have just heard that name for the very 1st time.. Joe. Bisenius. … we're still waiting for him to develop I guess. . .
Gillies is a clone of Victorino
JC Ramirez is a guy that throws 94-96, but needs to learn how to pitch, not just throw
and Aumont throws GAS, but was bounced twice from Starter-Reliever-Starter.. and the Mariners tried to make him change his delivery, and the Phillies changed him back … obviously its going to take him more than 3 months to start dominating.
Have some faith is this team, the players that they've brought-in (except Baez) have all helped.. and these guys will help in a few years, quicker than Draft picks would have..
So Matt, what, pray tell, do YOU consider to be a player's prime years? I've consistently read that younger than twenty-eight a player hasn't gotten to his maximum performance level, and over thirty three is when a player starts to slide.
Maybe I'm wrong, or my sources have all been wrong, but you're just stating absolutely nothing with absolutely nothing to back it up with. If you want to laugh, at least give a reason why you're laughing. Otherwise, it would be within anyone's rights to call you a stupid @sshole with no evidence to back it up.
Is it just me, or are the Phillies kind of mirroring the state of the economy? Awful downturn = horrible slump, followed by a slow but steady increase in runs, but now another potential setback that is leaving everyone easy and uncertain…..Brillaint, right?
players peak at 27-28. they improve pretty rapidly before that, and decline much slower by comparison through their 30s. much work has been done on this.
here is an example
many of amaro's moves make sense if you believe that a player's peak lasts through his mid 30s. unfortunately we don't have much data to back this idea up. its not a hard and fast rule for each player, but as a group, the phillies can expect less each year from their aging core of howard, utley, rollins etc.
If Amaro believed that players in their mid-30's were still in their primes
would he have given more years and dollars to Ibanez and Polanco?
I think people forget the Phillies were also bidding against other teams for these Free Agents ….
so when someone makes I comment like "I THINK WE COULD'VE GOTTEN POLANCO FOR 2 YEARS" …. it doesn't make any sense.. if the Phillies could've gotten a better deal on that player, they would have.
Ibanez.. the Phillies made an aggressive play for him as there were 6-8 teams interested in Ibanez at the time. So we had to make it worth his while to choose US over THEM … I'm glad we got Ibanez instead of watching him to elsewhere and signing Milton Bradley or whoever else was left
He signed these guys to deals that would keep them here for a few years, at fair-market values …
Age aside.. that is the same with Moyer, his stats make him worth of being an $8 M a year pitcher …. which is why they were smart to lock-in Blanton and Victorino (as someone mentioned earlier)
how about they could have gotten adam dunn instaed of ibanez for 2 years and a better contract. THEN they'd have the money to sign werth after this season instead of having to let him walk.
yes he's bad in the field but he'd have made up for it offensively and been locked up for only 2.
At least you have linked to some information now, although I doubt you would have without someone taking offense at you original insulting post.
I looked over this a little, and found much to question. For one thing, sabermetrics don't tell the entire story. For another, even the piece's author states, "I think that this issue contains a lot of muddy water." The third thing is that he cites another person who says a player peaks at 29. If I'm not mistaken (and I'll admit here that I haven't looked up their exact ages) Vic and Blanton are both 29. They are probably at their peak, or maybe have just gone a tiny bit beyond that, but they are hardly about to decline drastically. They'll likely be fine, and they aren't "overpaid" by any stretch of the imagination.
I wasn't referring to "peak YEAR," either. There is a period when a player is at his best, and it may be for more than a year, although one year might stand out a little more. Usually, that period is not the years leading up to the so-called "peak," because those are learning years.
One other thing: does this information apply to ALL players, or just position players?
One other thing, Matt. I never said that Utley, Howard, or Rollins were in their peak years. It's wrong and ridiculous to cite those players in an argument against the contracts for Victorino and Blanton.
Don, my good friend and respected poster, I don't recall there being 6-8 teams interested in Ibanez. Or even 4-6 for that matter. Or even 3. But if there were 6-8 teams clamouring for Ibanez's services, then RAJ should have bowed out. As soon as the deal was done I hated it and I hate it to this day and will never stop hating it. But…Ruben has an MO. See the player, sign the player. It can't be said that Ruben doesn't get his man. He just overpays. It's better than the bad old days when the Phillies used to ALWAYS come up short when we were inevitably treated to the infamous words "we made what we feel was a competitive and generous offer, but………". We used to bitch then that the Phils wouldn't do what it takes.
I don't mind overpaying a little for the right guy but Ibanez wasn't him.
The Dipsy
Phillies, Mets, Nats, Braves, Cubs, Angels is 6…
and those were just the ones that got reported.. Mariners were still interested in him, but as a DH, so he turned down their arbitration offer
MLBtraderumors has lots of articles about it
Adam Dunn would have been a TERRIBLE fit on this team.. adding yet another swing for the fences bat was what the last thing this team needed. Combine that with the fact that he was so bad in LF (the easiest defensive position), the moved him to 1b, praying that he could at least catch baseballs thrown his way … he's a DH, but he plays in the National League
The Dipsy, my good buddy, did you like having Raul Ibanez on the team last year, when he was carrying the entire team on his shoulders, and allowing us to hang in 1st place until Chase and Ryan and Jayson and crew got their acts together? I did
Who was a better option at that point? Burrell? Bradley? Dunn? … they made the right choice for the lineup and the clubhouse … sometimes you overpay for your needs (just as every single team does every single year for Starting Pitchers, Closers, which is why the overall market is so high)
George … i completely agree. I argued for Polly all off season and when you look at the rest of the 3B free agent class, I can't help but notice Beltre is about the only one doing anything. So we signed him for 3 years … that's what a "win now" attitude means. Except for the Yankees, nobody gets to have their cake and eat it too.
As far as everything else goes all you sabermetric jerks can suck on Moyer's fastball. Sure his "VORP plus BABIP minus the square root of OBA +/- HR allowed times his age all divided by the number of times I've simmed his season in MLBtheSHOW" isn't as high as some of those other guys but he's winning games.
I just don't understand how some of you guys can make everything so finite just because it you plug some guys age into an algorithmic formula that despite all our hopes … does not in fact predict the future with any more accuracy than a fortune cookie
we got a couple of guys down … and it's a bummer. but look at all we've lost to injuries this season and how we're still in this thing and theres oh three months left!
Don, I would have taken Dunn in a heartbeat. Or Bobby Abreu. Yes, Raul had a great 1st half. And at the end of his contract, will we think all that money was worth having a guy on out team that had one helluva half a season once? The Cubs were so interested in Raul they signed Milton Bradley. Bottom line: I would not have outbid a slew of teams for Ibanez's services to the tune of 33M (or whatever it is) for 3 years. He's not worth it and never was.
The Dipsy
Dipsy, the Cubs WERE interested in Ibanez. They signed Bradley because the Phils beat them to the punch on Raul.
Ibanez was a much better clubhouse presence than Abreu, who the Phils had already gotten rid of once. And he had a higher batting average and played better defense than Dunn.
Also, in case you haven't noticed, he seems to be hitting better lately, and this particular season is far from over. He won't stay at .240.
But why debate a person who's answer to the Phil's bench would have been a player (Dye) who'd already turned down a bench role and also turned down more money than that person proposed paying him?
Then don't.
The Dipsy
I will …
Adam Dunn in a lineup with Ryan Howard would have been a NIGHTMARE, you know it… I know it… and everyone in baseball knows it.
Bobby Abreu contributes so much to winning that he never lead this team anywhere, was then traded to the Yankees, who also couldn't win with Abreu on their team …
Milton Bradley, on this roster would have been a NIGHTMARE.. he would have been the quickest possible way to close that "window" to the playoffs every year.
Like i've said before too, when you look at stats for past years.. nobody ever break it down into half seasons
so in looking at Raul Ibanez 2009:
.272, 34 HRs, 93 RBI, 93 Runs Scored
That is pretty damn impressive.. and more than our money's worth at an average rate of $10.5 M per season
The Cubs actually paid Bradley more last year $9 M, than we did Ibanez $8.5M (both after signing bonus)
They'll pay less for him this year, $9 M vs. $11.5
but MORE next year $12 M vs. $11.5
so total cost of Ibanez was $1.5 M more, for a professional.. that we didn't have to trade for ruining our team.
Nice post, Don.


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Fitted Leaf Springs are designed by Skyjacker for specific spring applications. If you are installing Skyjacker lifted springs and you plan to haul extra toys and accessories on a regular basis, then we highly recommend adding a fitted leaf. Adding a fitted leaf will turn a regular lifted spring pack into a heavy duty lifted spring pack.
The fitted leaf will strengthen the load carrying capacity of the leaf pack, but is NOT designed to give additional lift. However, if you have a constant load on your lifted Skyjacker spings, and you later add this fitted leaf, it will help lift the spring back to its original position.
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|PU 1500/2500 1988-1998 GM 6 lug 5-5.5" 4WD RR Fitted Leafs

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text:
This article and accompanying program are dedicated to Stephen Hawking, one of the greatest explorers of our time. His book A Brief History of Time is a must read for anyone interested in the universe in which we find ourselves.
Related Articles:
Creating Real Time 3D Graphics With OpenGL
Preparing to Build an OpenGL Application
Black holes might be considered the ultimate heroes of gravity. They have incredible density and generate such powerful gravitational fields that not even light can escape their proximity. Black holes were first suggested as early as the late 1700s and were made famous with Einstein's law of general relativity.
A black hole is so compressed that it folds space and time around itself. To the outside observer, it no longer has size and becomes a zero-dimensional singularity. If any physical size is at all meaningful when speaking about a black hole, it would be its event horizon -- the sphere around the singularity from which nothing will ever been seen again.
Invite 1000 particles to play around a black hole, and you just know things are going to get crazy.
Only as recently as the mid-1970s were the effects best explained by black holes first observed, thus providing direct physical evidence of their existence. But they have been generally accepted by both the public at large and by scientific communities for decades, thereby becoming a favorite resource for both sci-fi story teller and theoretical physicist. Black holes are just so extreme -- literal points of no return.
Because of the incredible gravitational field a black hole generates, the space around it tends to be a very dynamic place. Any particle with mass that enters the orbit of the black hole will quickly accelerate as its orbit decays and the particle moves closer to the black hole itself. The gravity shear, or gradient, is also unique in that the force of gravity exists at different strengths at only slightly different distances from the black hole. Objects are either torn apart immediately, or end up spinning at high speeds and are ripped apart because of centripetal forces.
Even light particles (photons) that pass near the black hole, but outside its event horizon, will still be affected. Light bends around the singularity as a function of the inverse of its distance -- or -- the closer it is, the more it bends. Black holes can be thought of as gigantic lenses. There have been recent astronomical observations of distant starlight bending around what is assumed to be a black hole that happens to be in between ourselves and the more distant star.
It has been estimated that a hydrogen bomb made with all the water on the planet would likely cause the matter in the center of the bomb to be compressed into a black hole. While we wait for the accounting department to reject our request, we might as well look for another way to have some fun with black holes that might cause less of a stir.
Drawing the axis lines.
Program and Makefile
bhole.c - The OpenGL Black Hole simulator.
Makefile - Simple Makefile.
We'll use OpenGL as the 3D API in order to leverage any 3D hardware that might be available on the machine. Some basic understanding of OpenGL is assumed in this article. For an OpenGL refresher, please see these articles. The accompanying program is similarly structured as well.
Before we can build our black hole, we need a universe within which to place it. To make the math easier when calculating the particle orbits, we're going to make our universe center on the black hole at
(0,0,0), which will also be the only source of gravitational pull.
In the code,
main() first calls the usual OpenGL GLUT initialization functions, registers several of our functions for event and drawing callbacks, and then calls
ourInit(). This function's job is to allocate and configure everything else needed by our program before passing control off to OpenGL's GLUT for event processing.
ourInit() starts by calling
ourBuildTextures(), which builds a single bit-plane texture known as an alpha-channel map, containing a simple dot. The texture is used to control how transparent our particles will be, and is progressively more opaque towards the center. There is a 6% randomness to the alpha channel values, which hides any obvious transitions. Remove the
+ ourRand(15), and you'll be able to see obvious concentric rings when a particle is nearby.
Of course, 3D motion is required.
ourBuildStarfield() is called next, with the number of stars desired passed as a parameter. This function builds a display list, which is a way of having OpenGL remember a sequence of calls for use later. The
glNewList() function takes an integer "name" as its first parameter; we're calling with
STAR_FIELD, which has already been defined as "1." The second parameter can either be
GL_COMPILE or
GL_COMPILE_AND_EXECUTE. Because we're pre-assembling this list, we'll use the first option.
ourBuildStarfield() takes advantage of the fact that OpenGL display lists record all the parameters made to the OpenGL calls. Thus, we don't have to worry about remembering where our stars are, because OpenGL will do it for us. If we didn't use a display list, we would have had to remember the star locations (and sizes), or use a repeatable pseudo-random number generator.
Another trick the function does is use OpenGL to spin the universe around a random amount while always placing the next star in the same location. This is instead of calculating the star's location ourselves, and demonstrates how rotating the MODELVIEW frame of reference can be used to quickly produce interesting results.
It should be noted that this results in slower run-time rendering speed, however, as OpenGL is having to do a matrix multiply (updating 16 values) for each rotation, which is not always implemented in hardware. A star field with pre-calculated star positions could easily be written, and would be recommended for applications where frame rate is critical.
Returning to
ourInit(), calls are made to enable blending, but disabling alpha testing. We also ask for flat shading, since we'll see no benefit from smooth shading in this application, and then we ask for our blend function to be
This is a special blending mode which says that whatever is in the destination buffer should be added to by the contents of the source buffer, according to the source buffer's alpha level. The destination is what has already been drawn, with the source being whatever it is that's currently being drawn.
This blending mode must be used with care in most situations, as it's a rather unnatural form of matter. Objects rendered in this way are completely transparent (as in, they don't block any light from behind), but they also add to the scene any light reflecting off or radiating from the object. No real world objects are truly like this, although fire, laser beams in dusty rooms, and luminescent particles come close.
Since we're modeling the latter, this mode makes sense. Note that overlapping objects quickly add to the RGB values of a pixel, so individual particles should be fairly transparent. A pixel's color values will continue to climb as additional objects are drawn on top of it, with clipping occurring at white. This can be, but is not always, a desirable effect.
ourInit() next calls
ourCalcObs() which is used to figure out the X, Y, and Z coordinates based on the observer's angle around, distance from, and height above the origin. Then the
cbResizeScene callback function is used in order to set the correct screen perspective matrix.
gluNewQuadric() is next called in order to allocate a GLU object, which we'll use for the sphere of our black hole's event horizon.
ourAllocParticles() is called to allocate an array of particles of the initial size desired. This function is handy because it can be called with the number of desired particles, and the array will be reallocated as needed. To finish off, the first particle in the array (our "root particle") is introduced to the system with a call to
At this point, our universe is ready to roll.
ourInit() returns,
main() prints a small help message to STDOUT, and control is passed to GLUT by calling
cbRenderScene() was registered as both the Idle and Display callbacks, that is where we next receive control back. Here we draw the next frame of our display, and if motion is enabled, request our "physics engine" to update the position of each particle.
Heads Up status display turned on.
cbRenderScene() clears the screen (including the depth buffer), ensures we're working with the
MODELVIEW, and loads the "identity" matrix. Note that the
DEPTH_TEST and
Depth Mask are both enabled. Next,
gluLookAt() is called to look at
(0,0,0) from either the location of the observer, or from the root particle, depending on the global variable
On_Orbit. This, and many other variables, are controlled from the keyboard, and are detailed below.
Texturing is disabled, and then a truly black sphere is drawn by way of a call to
gluSphere(). The stars, particle vectors, and axis are drawn next, as appropriate, and then the depth mask is set to false, which disables writing any new depth information to the depth buffer. This is in preparation for the drawing of the particles themselves, which shouldn't change the depth buffer because they're completely transparent. Note that depth test is still enabled so particles behind the black hole will be obscured.
For the particles themselves, texturing is re-enabled if appropriate, and then the array of particles is iterated through. For each particle that isn't yet "running," there's a 0.03% chance it will be introduced into the system with a call to
ourFireParticleGun(). This is a way of slowly introducing particles to the system at the start.
For particles that are already running, we simply set the color as defined by the particle (which is yellow for the root particle), and then draw two intersecting quads centered on the particles position (a "poor man's" billboard). If motion is enabled, we call
ourMoveParticle(), the entry point for our physics engine, which will calculate the next position for the particle.
cbRenderScene() calls
ourRenderHeadsUp() to draw the heads-up display, if desired. At this point all drawing is complete, so it swaps the OpenGL display buffers so our just-drawn scene is on-screen. Single-stepping is handled next, then frame-per-second statistics are collected, and finally control is returned to GLU.
Two of the functions registered as callbacks are
cbKeyPressed() and
cbSpecialKeyPressed(). These are used to adjust various variables for the simulation, and include "impulse engines" to adjust the velocity (and thus the orbit) of the root particle.
Some place you really don't want to go today.
The controls for the root particle are 'O' for toggling between the observer's position and being "on-orbit" with the root particle. The 'x,' 'y' (or 'c'), and 'z' keys provide the root particle with a small impulse in the positive direction of the respective axis; the shifted capital keys provide a negative impulse. The velocity impulses are too small to directly escape the black hole's gravity field, but over several orbits, escape is possible with carefully planned periods of impulse.
It's also possible to move the root particle into a closer orbit. In fact, playing with different impulse directions at different points in the root particle's orbit can be an entertaining way of learning about orbital mechanics. The short form is -- everything's backwards. You slow down to go closer (and thus faster), and any impulses done on one side of the orbit have an effect on the opposite side.
While changing the root particle's orbit, it's often handy to have the axis lines displayed. This is done with the 'A' key. The 'S' key toggles the stars display, and the 'H' key toggles the "Heads Up" display, which gives several current values including our particle gun's location and injection velocity and the root particle's position and velocity. Such information can be useful when changing the orbit. If you get into trouble, the 'R' key will re-fire the root particle out of the particle gun.
When not on-orbit, the observation point is controlled with the arrow keys to change the angle around the Y axis and the height (above/below the XZ plane). These let you spin around the black hole, getting different views of the orbits. The Page Up and Page Down keys control how close the observation point is from the Y axis. The function
ourCalcObs() converts these values into XYZ position coordinates for our drawing routine.
Other controls include the 'B' key for particle brightness, and the '+' and '-' keys to introduce or remove a hundred new particles to the system. Using these keys, you can wipe out all the particles in orbit and then restart, without having to stop the program. Lastly, the numeric keypad (when enabled) controls the position and injection velocities for the particle gun. Changing these values can result in very different and interesting orbits.
The particle gun itself is simply a conceptual point in space from which particles are injected into the system to begin their orbits around the black hole. There is some randomness given to the particles fired from the gun, to avoid "follow-the-leader" type effects. Occasionally the randomness is set to be extreme or to be backwards. This is done to add to the complexity of the scene, and it's always entertaining when a particle on an unusual orbit happens to come whipping by our point of observation.
The gun is fired whenever a particle is eaten by the black hole or escapes, occasionally randomly, and also whenever a particle is not yet running and the 'i' key is pressed. The 'I' key injects all non-running particles at one time, and can be quite amusing to watch. One last key of some importance: 'm' will start single-stepping through the simulation, with 'M' re-starting normal motion.
The term "physics engine" is a black-box wrapper phrase for the function, or set of functions, that implement the physics for a system. In our case, we are going to be calculating the gravitational effects of a massive object on a number of particles; no interactions between particles will be considered.
Making sure the algorithim exhibits Kepler's Laws.
The math needed to calculate accurately the motion of objects within a gravity field (in one, two or even three dimensions) is actually quite simple. We'll be using an iterative method to solve what's called the "two body" problem. We simplify the problem even further to assume the smaller particle has no effect on the black hole.
For each moment in time, we update each particle's position based on its current velocity vector. Next, we calculate the square of the distance between our particle and the black hole. We use this as the (possibly scaled) denominator of a gravity constant to find the force of gravity being felt by the particle, thus implementing the inverse-square-law of gravity (and most other forces). The particle's current velocity vector is then updated to include the force of gravity (the vectors are added together). Lastly, we trim a small amount of velocity away from each particle, in order to simulate a slow decay of the orbits.
This simple algorithm produces true orbital dynamics which subscribe to Kepler and Newton's laws, providing the particles don't approach the singularity too closely. As seen in the image above, the orbits are ellipses, as first realized by Johannes Kepler in the early 1600s after studying the orbits of the planets. Newton later came up with his law of universal gravitation, and showed that orbits can also be parabolic or hyperbolic. Both of the latter orbit forms are "open" (the particle escapes), and can appear in our simulation.
If a particle comes too close to the black hole, however, the simulation must iterate at a finer temporal (time) resolution or it will no longer accurately simulate the physics. For our simulation, we simply kill any particles that get too close, assuming they were eaten by the black hole ("thinking it were a carrot"). The reason for the error is worth working through though, in order to understand why the algorithm fails to conserve energy.
If you examine the image below, you'll see a magnified view of a particle that is so close to the black hole that the force of gravity (drawn in red, skewering the black hole) is close to the same magnitude as the particle's velocity (drawn in green). Note that the velocity vector has already been adjusted by the pull of gravity, so at the next step in time the particle will move to the tip of the green line, the gravity vector will then be recalculated from that point, and the velocity vector will be updated for the next step.
Viewing the particle vectors -- one particle is REALLY close.
The problem should be fairly obvious from the image: The direction of the vector representing the pull of gravity should be varying by approximately 45 degrees or more during this step's time period. As a result, as the particle passes along the green velocity vector, the vector itself should be bending towards the black hole, bringing the particle closer to its capture.
Instead, because our temporal resolution is too low, the particle will actually get a velocity boost. This can be amusingly demonstrated by removing the test condition to eliminate particles within the EVENT_HORIZON, which results in particles being fired off to infinity at high speed. Use the single-step mode (the 'm' key) with the vectors display (the 'V' key) to watch the vectors of close passing particles. Rotate around the black hole to get a good perspective at each step.
The solution to this problem is fairly simple -- you must break the temporal steps down into a finer resolution, with the force of gravity being divided evenly across each step. This can either be done for all the particles, or only for those that are too close. Keep in mind also that the error is a function of the inverse square of the distance, so the number of steps needed to maintain accuracy will vary considerably for each particle.
Because we're only playing, and are more interested in high frame rates than in perfect simulation, this doesn't matter too much. But for truly accurate predictions, the temporal scale must be quite small for strong gravity fields.
This simulation accurately handles frictionless motion within the 3D space around a point-source gravity field. By eliminating terms (by setting constants for some of the equations such that they come out to be 0 or 1, as appropriate, to be able to avoid some calculations), one-dimensional accelerated frames of reference can be simulated that are appropriate for on-planet environments.
Traditionally, such simulations assume the force of gravity will be the same for all objects, and so the calculation of object to gravity source distance can also be eliminated. Thus, the change in velocity (i.e. the acceleration) becomes a constant. Here on earth, the acceleration experienced is 9.8 meters per second per second (m/s2). Note that the mass of the objects doesn't enter the equations -- the mass doesn't have any effect except when dealing with inter-object gravitational influences (or when introducing "drag," simulating atmospheric friction).
Eliminate terms to change the physics for terrestrial environments.
Shown in the image above is the result of our black hole simulator with the
ourMoveParticle() function modified such that gravity is only felt along the Y axis, and it is a constant rather than being a function of altitude. Also, a test is made to see if the particle has moved beneath the "ground" (Y < 0), and if so, the Y component of the velocity vector is reversed. Ta da! The world's largest trampoline! Don't feel so nice? Make the particles crash and take damage instead.
If we were interested, the singularity in this simulation could be eliminated, and a mass value could be added for each particle. By calculating the distance between each particle and the force of gravity each particle's mass exerted upon all the others, accurate n-body predictions could be made. In this way, our simulation would grow from an "m" times 2-body environment to a truly chaotic n-body system.
It is in some ways reassuring to know that the simple algorithm, "
foreach (Particle) { P += V; V += GravSum(ParticleList); }", turns out to be the only way to calculate n-body trajectories when "n" grows to be more than (currently) about six; the more direct equations quickly become too complex for we puny humans, or our computers, to solve. In fact, specialized hardware has been built that does nothing but run essentially the n-body version of this algorithm to simulate our solar system at very fine temporal resolution for highly accurate predictions.
In the less abstract, limited term simulations can be used for various effects such as simulated jet exhaust smoke trails, artillery trajectories, or fireworks. By replacing the
ourMoveParticle() function, radically different types of simulations can be built such as non-deterministic bird or bee behavioral motion.
Program and Makefile
bhole.c - The OpenGL black hole simulator.
Makefile - Simple makefile.
Particle systems can be a wonderful way of adding complexity to an environment with a minimum of programmer effort, providing the hardware can support enough particles to make the aggregate effect convincing. The results can often be mesmerizing, as I found during the construction of this program.
And, of course, no software is finished, only abandoned; there are lots of things that could be added to this program to make it even more interesting. Suggestions include optical warping effects around the black hole of those particles behind it, rendering each particle using a single quad as a true "billboard" facing the observer, and doing some kind of visual effect when a particle is captured. Having a mode where the particle's color is a function of its position or one of its vectors would likely be educational too.
It's your universe; imagine, then create!
Chris Halsall is the Managing Director of Ideas 4 Lease (Barbados). Chris is a specialist... at automating information gathering and presentation systems.
Related Articles:
Creating Real Time 3D Graphics With OpenGL
OpenGL Rendering and Drawing
Preparing to Build an OpenGL Application
Discuss this article in the O'Reilly Network Linux Forum.
Return to the Linux DevCenter.
Copyright © 2009 O'Reilly Media, Inc.


text:
Urban settler
Jared Anderson takes a minimalist approach with tipi living in LA
By Christopher Nyerges 07/16/2009
When artist Jared Anderson was a child, his father would take him hunting and hiking in the Colorado wilderness. At night they would sleep around a fire and wake to elk chattering. "Those were my life-defining moments, my foundation in the cycles of nature," says Anderson, who is now living in a tipi in LA, near Dodger Stadium.
This isn't the first time Anderson has done this. Back in Colorado, he lived in a tipi at night and worked as a tour guide by day, driving people around in a four-wheel-drive vehicle. He also worked at a restaurant, where he ate many of his meals.
But Anderson said that his time in the tipi was not difficult. Rather, it was enjoyable and peaceful, with no electricity, running water or indoor toilet.
Then, two and a half years ago, Anderson moved into an artist's studio in downtown Los Angeles, located in an old printing warehouse in a highly industrial area. "It was a bit too gritty and I wanted to live closer to the earth," Anderson said.
He moved slightly north of downtown, just across the freeway from Dodger Stadium, to the hills of Lincoln Heights. "I liked the place because it was so close to everything and yet I could still go running in the hills," said Anderson.
"I then found a guy on Craigslist who was selling a tipi. I offered to trade one of my art pieces for his tipi, and we made the trade. … So now I had a tipi, but no poles. And to buy the poles would have cost me about $1,200," said Anderson. "So I found long timber bamboo poles, which were a local resource, and I used them."
Anderson began with a pounded earth floor for the base of his tipi, which is situated on a flat section of long ridge line in a hilly neighborhood. He had a little fire in his tipi, though he has removed that. He used an oil lamp for lighting. He put in rugs, a wooden deck just outside and a chiminea, a ceramic stove from Mexico.
"Well, the rugs got wet in the winter, but they are OK in the summer," he said with a laugh. "When I moved into this tipi, I regarded it as my living art project, which I call The Urban Settlement," explained Anderson, who has been documenting his year and a half in the tipi and eventually plans to write a book about his experiences.
The biggest challenge Anderson faced was the vulnerability of being in a tipi in the big city, which is why he took the unusual step of building a door to the structure so he could lock it up while away.
But he's never had a problem with vandalism. "My approach is that people will be curious about the tipi. After all, you can see it from anywhere down in the neighborhood. So I always invited the neighbors to come up for a view and invited them in to see. They were very curious and I was showing how minimal one could live. This turned out to be a very empowering aspect of the project."
Above all, "This is a sanctuary where I have always felt inspired for my own spiritual and artistic endeavors. This is remarkably distant from the chaos of Los Angeles, and yet I am still so accessible to it all," he said. "The social aspect of this has been great. I invite friends to sit and talk around the fire and share experiences while watching the city from above. Sometimes we have music. This has been such a remarkable blessing to live in such a diverse metropolis like LA, and still be in nature. I often wake up to a rabbit running about. And sometimes I hear coyotes off in the hills."
Anderson's advice to those who want to be closer to nature is that we need to rethink ideas of owning "stuff."
"We were taught in this society that we must have ownership of so much. But this has just caused clutter in our lives and this is a reflection of our spiritual clutter. Just give your unnecessary stuff away," Anderson said. "I am not telling people to live in a tipi forever. I am saying that I can live minimally and still smile. Life is chaotic only if we allow it to be. And you don't want to be so attached to objects that those objects begin to define you.
"Check yourself," he said. "What drives you? When do you feel the most alive? Those are the things you should do."
For more, check Anderson's Web site at jareddavidpaul.com
Christopher Nyerges is the editor of Wilderness Way magazine, the author of "How to Survive Anywhere," and an occasional blogger of current events. He can be contacted via this paper or ChristopherNyerges.com.
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SGA Senate Meeting
The Student Government Association invites students to come and address the senate. SGA exists to serve as the official voice through which student opinion may be expressed and empowered in the overall policy, decision making process, and services offered at the University of Houston. As such, SGA is committed to understanding the needs of students and advocating on their behalf. Through continuous interaction with students, faculty, staff, and administration, the organization works to improve and enhance the quality of the student experience.
For more information visit http://www.uh.edu/sga
- Location
- UC North, Senate Chamber
- Price
- Free, Open to Public
- Sponsor
- Student Government Association
- Contact
- SGA Director of Public Relations Nancy Gutierrez, 832-842-6230,firstname.lastname@example.com


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Well it's a new year, and what with the usual new year resolutions - getting fit, learning to play the guitar, and blogging regularly ! - I thought I'd also have a go at that other new year tradition - some technology predictions for 2013!!
As I'm a software engineer, they really come down to an optimistic, and somewhat biased view of some software development trends I've seen in 2012 that I hope will continue in 2013....so here they are:
Continuous deployment becomes common place - I think there is a perfect storm of desire to improve development-operations, improvements in virtualisation/cloud and in the software tools to enhance current build practices to make continuous deployment practical. So I'm looking forward to a year where this starts to become the norm rather than the exception.
Architecture comes back in fashion - a lot of organisations are struggling with agile, and in response to this I'm seeing a lot of teams turning back to doing more architecture and design. They are using the models in a very collaborative way - to communicate how the software works and seek improvements via colleagues' feedback, so that the software is as good as it can be. So 2013 will be the year when architecture cements itself into teams' agile practices.
Software development comes home - Is offshoring development really cheaper and faster? Well from what I've seen, a lot of organisations struggle to get a model that works - and they end up with a waterfall, highly contractual model, which doesn't deliver what they want in a timely fashion. So while there is definitely a place for global delivery and off shoring, it's not the panacea that some organisations thought. So in order to get better visibility, more agility I see more organisations reversing the off shoring trend and growing their software development capability in 2013.


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Aggressive New Strain Of HIV Found By Scientists
One step forward, two steps back, it seems in the race against HIV/AIDS.
On the heels of incredible news for World AIDS Day and a promising cancer-related treatment for HIV comes word from Swedish scientists that an aggressive new recombinant form of the virus is being transmitted.
The new strain, known as A3/02, is a recombinant, meaning it is a cross between two previously identified HIV strains. Writing in the Journal of Infectious Diseases, Lund University researchers said that the infection moves from HIV to full-blown AIDS in about five years, nearly two- to two-and-a-half years faster than most previously known strains.
So far the new infection seems confined to West Africa. But experts fear that recombinants are becoming more common and could start to spread globally, especially to highly mobile regions such as Europe and the United States. The researchers said recombinants develop faster than the "parental" strains they spring from, though fortunately, this latest strain seems treatable with existing drugs.
Though worrisome, researchers say the newly-found strain is not the most aggressive form of HIV known to man. "There are some HIV types here in the United States that take as little as two years to develop into AIDS," Phalguni Gupta, a professor of infectious diseases and microbiology at the University of Pittsburgh School of Graduate Health, told GMA.
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I am HIV-positive fyi. My limited understanding is that there is no difference between AIDS and full-blown AIDS. There is a difference between being HIV-positive and being diagnosed with AIDS. AIDS, colloquially "full-blown AIDS," is a condition where your t-cells have been depleted to the point that you are susceptible to opportunistic infections that would not normally bother a healthy immune system.
Apparently even this strain can be effectively treated with current drugs. The danger is that new strains will develop that cannot be effectively treated with existing drugs. The (not stated) point is that AIDS and HIV are not "old news," and their danger is real. It is important to protect yourself and your partner(s) and to know and disclose your status so that everybody knows the risk they are taking. I hope this is helpful.
Full blown AIDS is a hangover from the eighties, there is (to my knowledge) no difference. It is just a phrase that should be confined to the past. I live with AIDS and I could easily say I have full blown, but don't as it's an expression that shouldn't be used anymore and am surprised Instinct used it.


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Powhatan beefs up police force
THE RETENTION of a recycling program was announced at Tuesday night's meeting of Powhatan Village Council, whose members took action to hire two police officers.
Negotiations between JB Green Team and Shadyside Cartage Co. have resulted in the keeping of curbside pickup of recycling materials, according to Mayor Mark McVey. The mayor said Shadyside Cartage will continue pickups on the same schedule, which is alternate Mondays. The materials will be taken to recycling bins located in York Township where the JB Green Team will collect them, thus saving time and mileage for the cartage company.
McVey encourages village residents to join the recycling efforts, making it possible for the program to continue. The efforts will also keep tons of recyclables out of local landfills, which in turn will help in keeping cartage rates down.
Following a short executive session called for personnel, officials hired two police officers. Jason West of Martins Ferry was hired as a part-time officer provided he passes a physical examination for that position. At a later date, he will be required to pass another physical exam in order to become a full-time officer.
Also hired was Michael Clark of Colliers, W.Va. He will work on a part-time basis provided he passes the mandatory physical exam. Clark, who currently works in a security position in Jefferson County, was present at the council meeting.
Councilman Dave Walters, reporting for council's planning committee, said that a building permit had been issued to Dollar General. According to Walters, plans are to break ground by the end of this week or Monday. He said it will take six to eight weeks to erect the structure.
The board of public affairs plans to hire a full-time employee for the street department. Having been posted in-house, the position will be advertised in The Times Leader. Resumes are to be received at the municipal building by 5 p.m. on Dec. 14. Council will meet at 6 p.m. on Dec. 18, prior to the regular council session, to review applications.
In an unrelated police matter, it was announced that the village's new police cruiser has been delivered. A short discussion was held in regard to scrapping the old cruiser, which council had agreed to do at a previous meeting.
McVey reported to council that a change order on the Ohio 7 South Drainage Project had caused the cost to go over the village's $25,000 of permissive funds. He noted that although the scope of work was slightly more, Ohio-West Virginia Excavating did not charge more than the $25,000. He expressed his gratitude to the company as well as to A.C. Weekley, grant administrator; Bel-O-Mar; and county commissioners, who awarded a Community Development Block Grant for the project.
Council agreed to continue employee health insurance with the Health Plan of the Upper Ohio Valley.
Council's finance committee will meet Monday at 4 p.m. to discuss appropriations.


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Recent News
Posted on: 23 April, 2009
A free art class for students between 5 and 12 years old will be presented Wednesday [APRIL 29] at the Ada Arts and Heritage Center. The class will be led by pre-service teachers and art students under the supervision of Dr. Bradley Jessop, chair of ECU's Art Department. Sponsors are the ECU Art Club, the AAHC and the Ada Artists Association.
# # #
Posted on: 22 April, 2009
The City of Ada and East Central University played host to 40 people from 18 different Oklahoma communities last week [April 16 -- 17] in conjunction with the Oklahoma Arts Council Leadership Arts class.
The class visits three cities each year that are active in the arts. The first two workshops were in Lawton and Bartlesville.
Posted on: 21 April, 2009
Four of the 2009 inductees into the Gene and Evelyn Keefer Educators Hall of Fame at East Central University and family members representing two other inductees gather after a ceremony in ECU's Danley Hall. Shown are Phyllis Lasarsky (from left), daughter of the late John Zimmerman; inductees Kenneth Murphy, Mary Pauline Lanoy and Leon Lanoy; Betty Stout, widow of the late Dr. Ray Stout; and inductee Billie Floyd. The group has a total of about 250 years in education.
Posted on: 20 April, 2009
The sixth annual Water Festival/Earth Day is from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. Thursday [April 23] at East Central University. The event is co-sponsored by ECU, the City of Ada and the US-EPA's Robert S. Kerr Environmental Research Center.
Posted on: 20 April, 2009
A new partnership formed between East Central University and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children will raise awareness about child safety and the prevention of child abuse Saturday [April 25] at the Chickasaw Nation's Annual Children's Fair.
Posted on: 17 April, 2009
Three one-act plays directed by students in East Central University's Play Directing class will be presented at 8 p.m. April 23-26 [THURSDAY-SUNDAY] in ECU's Black Box Theatre. Admission is free but seating is limited.
The Black Box Theatre is located in Room 134 on the ground floor of Science Hall.
Posted on: 16 April, 2009
A choral piece that replicates the sound of a thunderstorm, a new choral cycle and works by local composers Victoria Davison and Rudy Lupinski will be on the program for the East Central University Chorus and University Chorale concert Monday [APRIL 20] at St. Joseph's Catholic Church.
The concert will begin at 7:30 p.m. under the direction of Dr. Steven Walker, professor of music. Admission is free.
Posted on: 16 April, 2009
The 55th and final Annual Faculty Exhibition in the University Gallery in East Central University's Art Department is underway from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. weekdays through May 9. A reception for the artists will be held from 5 to 6:30 p.m. today [THURSDAY].
The department and gallery, now located through the east entrance of the Education Building, will move to the new Hallie Brown Ford Fine Arts Center when it is completed.


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Secure your spot at EC for Spring 2015 by making a deposit. We are expecting a large Fall enrollment, so making a deposit is very important.
If you have been accepted, please take the next step and sign up for Registration to get the classes and housing you want. Once you have a class schedule, the deposit is required in order to secure your spot in those classes. If you plan to be a resident student, the deposit secures your housing on campus. Please contact us in Admissions if you have any questions and we will be happy to assist you!
Click on the link below that best applies. Please note that deposits are not refundable.
1) Commuter $100 registration deposit: Click here
2) Resident $200 registration and housing deposit: Click here
The registration deposit secures your schedule and initiates the housing placement process for resident students.
We look forward to you being a member of the EC family!


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It was a single comment that triggered first a red flag, and now action.
Two months ago, then-regent Artemio Baxa had this to say about replacing outgoing University of Hawaii President MRC Greenwood.
"Right in this very room, even among us the Board of Regents, there might just be some to qualify to be University of Hawaii president," Baxa said.
Baxa said he was talking about regents John Holtzman and Chuck Gee.
Both said they weren't interested in the job.
But the state ethics commission took it as a cue to lay down some ground rules in the situation where a member is interested in a job that needs board approval.
The advisory noted, "The situation raises a number of issues about the fairness or propriety of the hiring process, both real and inferred, and erodes public confidence in government."
The commission issued the advisory saying any member who wants to apply, needs to resign from the board first.
"The state ethics code prohibits an employee, from among other things, using his position to give himself an unwarranted advantage," it noted.
According to the commission, that advantage can also come in the form of "insider information."
The advisory comes as the board has been grappling with filling a position for board secretary.
It's a position that has been vacant since last year, in part because of what some say was a potential conflict of interest, when then regent Michael Dahilig applied for the job before he stepped down from the board.
The board, with the addition of new members, is to meet Thursday.
It will take up the issue in a closed door-session, and get an update on the search for a new president.


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Podcast: Play in new window | Download (53.0MB) This week! We discuss the PSPgo (CJ bought one), game review hyperbole, free hotel porn, vibrating beds, Super Street Fighter IV, and things we thought were innovations but were really non-innovations in driving games. Oh and we also talk about games, including UmJammer Lammy, Pixeljunk Monsters Deluxe, […]
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Keep it easy when youre cooking for more
with our
seven simple suppers.
Looking for an easy, convenient lunch or dinner? Learn how to build a healthy meal at the salad bar.
Solo SuppersTortilla and Lime Soup
Celebrated chef Joyce Goldstein has just added to her book collection with Solo Suppers: Simple Delicious Meals to Cook For Yourself. In part one of a three part series, she offers tips on shopping and cooking for one, plus the recipe for a perfect solo supper.
A recent government census found that more than half of American families number two or fewer people and about a third are single person households. Yet most recipes are still written for four to six people, leaving the solo diner or couple who prepared it with a mountain of leftovers. If you do the math and try to cut a recipe down to a single portion or one that serves two, you often find that there's not enough sauce and the seasonings and timing are off.
Plainly there is a need for recipes written especially for the small household. That is why I have written Solo Suppers: Simple Delicious Meals to Cook for Yourself. Recipes for one can be doubled quite nicely.
The FoodFit Plan can personalize a daily meal plan just for you.
Learn more about all the benefits of joining the FoodFit Plan.
Solo Shopping
Shopping for one or two may be more challenging than cooking for a larger household. As a solo cook and diner, while I like to take advantage of the weekly specials, I don't want to go crazy and buy more food than I can eat. I don't want to be bored with nights of eating the same meal, and I hate wasting food.
So, just before I go to the market I look at my calendar for the days ahead and see how many nights I am in and how many I am going to be dining out. I try to buy what I think I will need to keep me well fed and happy but not leave me with a fridge full of food that I do not have time to prepare or eat before it spoils. I have become quite creative in meal planning and planning how to use leftovers.
Solo Leftovers
There are two kinds of leftovers. One is the simple reheatyou've made a small batch of stew or soup and reheat it as is. The other is creative reusea bunch of beets is a vegetable side dish one night and part of a salad the next, or a large piece of pan-broiled tuna is an entree one night and added to pasta the next.
Soup is a great place to creatively recycle leftover meat, poultry, bits of greens and vegetables.
The Perfect Solo Supper
When I cook for myself at home, a big bowl of soup can be my entire mealthe perfect solo supper.
I begin with a simple base and keep adding relevant ingredients until I have a stewy, filling soup. In the winter, legumes, grains, and pasta are the means to achieving a comforting and satisfying soup meal. Leftover bread or tortillas also add body to extend a stock base.
Tortilla and Lime Soup
On a vacation in the Yucatán in Mexico, I tasted my first bowl of sopa di lima. In its pure, stripped-down form, it was a delightful first course that awakened my appetite. Over the years, I have played with the basic recipe and added diced avocado, corn, and even rice to make the soup substantial enough to be supper.
Sopa di lima is usually made with chicken, but I find that shrimp work well too. My one caveat about this soup is to be careful not to "overheat" the stock with excessive chiles. The first bite may be fine, but heat increases with every mouthful, possibly making the soup too fiery for comfort. What is important is the balance between the tartness of the lime and the heat of the chiles.
Get healthy recipes, nutrition information and fitness tips!


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The Importance of Eating Right
By Drs. Rick and Jan Hanson
Q I want to set a good example for my children about eating right, but honestly, it's hard to find time for anything but "convenience" foods and snacks. Plus I'd love to get rid of some of the extra pounds I've acquired since having kids.
A There are lots of easy ways for a busy mom to get good nutrition that will help her kids develop healthy eating habits, plus help her keep up her energy and mood, ward off disease, and lose a few pounds in the process.
Think of it like a DAILY recipe with seven ingredients:
1. Eight to twelve ounces of protein - Protein is chock full of the amino acids that are crucial building blocks for your body and your brain chemistry; protein also helps regulate blood sugar so your day is less of a rollercoaster.Eat 3-4 ounces of protein (about the size of a deck of cards) at every meal, especially breakfast. When you want something sweet, have some protein instead, like a hard-boiled egg, hummus on crackers, or a piece of sliced turkey; that will satisfy your hunger and keep your blood sugar on an even keel.
2. Five to seven servings of fresh vegetables, and one to two fruits - When you tell your kids to eat their veggies, that means you, too! Fresh vegetables have many more nutrients than ones that are canned, dried, or frozen. Fresh fruits are also filled with vitamins, phytonutrients, and fiber. Try snacking on raw vegetables like carrots or broccoli, having a sweet potato for breakfast, grating carrots or beets into salad, and making a big pot of vegetable soup on the weekend that will last all week.
3. Unrefined oils, plus essential fatty acid (EFA) supplements - Refining oils strips out important nutrients and leaves behind the trans-fatty acids that lead to heart disease and other problems. And you need EFA's for a healthy brain and heart. Use virgin olive oil or oils clearly marked as "unrefined." Take a EFA fish oil supplement that states on the bottle that it contains no heavy metals.
4. Two to five servings of unrefined, varied whole grains - Refined grains like white flour, pasta, and white rice lack key nutrients, and they also convert quickly to sugars in your body, straining an insulin system that is already challenged by your daily stresses. Get your carbohydrates from other sources (e.g., nuts, bananas, yams), replace white flour with good-tasting whole wheat pastry flour or rice flour, and try not to bring home convenience foods made with white flour.
5. Organic foods whenever possible - Organic foods have more nutrients (especially minerals) and no toxic chemicals. Since toxins concentrate in breast milk, eating organic is especially important for a nursing mother. These days, you can get almost any food you like from an organic source, whether it's at a health food store or your local supermarket. Don't drive yourself crazy to eat organic all the time; just shift in that direction as much as you can.
6. High potency nutritional supplements - Take multivitamin-multimineral supplements; one sign of high-quality is that most minerals are followed by a word ending in -ate, like magnesium citrate. You'll have to swallow four to six supplements a day - which takes a fraction of the time it takes to brush your teeth - because it's impossible to get all the nutrients you need in a single pill smaller than a golf ball. Also take a calcium-magnesium supplement. Good supplements are available at health food stores or our website, www.nurturemom.com.
7. Zero or very little refined sugar - High consumption of sugar is associated with Type II diabetes, weight gain, fatigue, arthritis, migraines, breast cancer, and cardiovascular disease. And sugar depletes the B vitamins, chromium, calcium, magnesium, and copper that a mother needs. So, look at the labels and try to eat no more than 20 grams of sugar a day. Cut out sodas and juice (two soft drinks a day equals 65 pounds of sugar a year!), avoid temptation by not keeping desserts around the home, snack on protein or fresh vegetables, and look for other ways to feel good besides eating sweets.
* * *
Rick Hanson, Ph.D. is a clinical psychologist, Jan Hanson, M.S., L.Ac., is an acupuncturist/nutritionist, and they are raising a daughter and son, ages 16 and 19. With Ricki Pollycove, M.D., they are the first and second authors of Mother Nurture: A Mother's Guide to Health in Body, Mind, and Intimate Relationships, published by Penguin. You can see their website at www.nurturemom.com or email them with questions or comments at firstname.lastname@example.com; unfortunately, a personal reply may not always be possible.


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North Central College alumna Kristy (Kunert '95) Sandberg has been inducted into the Orion High School Hall of Fame in her hometown.
"Kristy was always on the move while here at OHS. She was a member of the volleyball, basketball, softball and track teams as well as a cheerleader and Executive Council member. It was in the areas of volleyball and basketball where Kristy showcased her talents," OHS Principal Nathan DeBaillie said at the induction ceremony. His remarks were published in the Orion Gazette.
As a Cardinal, Sandberg played volleyball and basketball and was twice named College Conference of Illinois & Wisconsin All-Conference in volleyball. She was a two-time CCIW All-Academic Member as part of the basketball team. As a senior she was captain of both the volleyball and basketball teams and earned the basketball team's Pat Paski Sportsmanship Award. She was named the College's 1995 Female Athlete of the Year. She earned her degree in accounting.


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Order by 22.12. for delivery by 24.12. - more*
$ 40.00
Unfortunately this product is currently not available.
A romantic symbol of love, this heart shimmers half in clear crystal and half in Light Amethyst crystal. Decorated with delicate butterflies in different sizes, this creation is a great way of saying I love you. Decoration object. Not a toy. Not suitable for children under 15.


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gribi theurillat Real Estate
Switzerland's leading property service company employs a multivendor strategy for its IT security, and uses Norman Endpoint Protection to safeguard its endpoints.
Read more
ComTech AS IT, B2B, Partner
ComTech quickly realized that customers wanted predefined IT services at predictable costs. "Norman's concept and solutions fit this business model perfectly," says CEO Ole Halland.
Read more
Sortland Kommune Public: The Municipality of Sortland, Norway, 300 users
Sortland municipality experiences that Norman security solutions help to reduce IT vulnerabilities
Read more
Bø Kommune Public: The Municipality of Bø, Norway, 129 users
"With Norman we get good solutions and high priority, which is why we are using Norman's solutions" says the IT manager of community Bø (Norway), Øyvind Lilan.
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Mediedata, Norway IT Retail, Partner
Mediedata sets IT security as their top priority with Norman
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ADG IT branch
ADG, Germany's largest IT service provider for pharmacies, offers its customers a comprehensive patching and updating service for standard software and proprietary applications.
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Prinzing Elektrotechnik Electronics
To ensure the patches are distributed quickly and reliably, Prinzing is using the patch management solution Norman Patch & Remediation.
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Stadtverwaltung Rheinfelden Municipal Government of Rheinfelden
In order to protect the highly sensitive data, the Municipal Government relies on the Norman Device Control safety solution with integrated encryption technology.
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Specialist Enquiries
The curatorial and conservation teams are available to answer enquiries about arms and armour, related material and of course its related history, and the history of the Tower of London.
Enquiries and appointment requests can be submitted by using the form below.
If you need to see a member of staff it should be by prior arrangement with the appropriate person, and should be confined to:
Monday – Friday
10am – 12am
2pm – 4pm
Advice for bringing objects into the museum
- If you do intend to bring an object into the museum for our curators to see, you should contact them first. This will ensure someone is available to meet you.
- If your object is a weapon you should first check whether it is a prohibited weapon or needs a licence. You should check this before bringing the object into the museum or travelling with it in public. For advice about this please contact your local police force.


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Get your kitchen, dining room or prep area floors clean with one of these durable floor mops from manufacturers like Rubbermaid®, Unger, and Continental Manufacturing. Wasserstrom has cotton mops, micro-fiber mops, wet mops, and dry mops.
In Stock
Order your cotton mops and banded mops today, and have your floor mops arrive within a few days. Ordering online is easy and fast, with more items shipped out in one to two business days. If you have any questions about our collection of floor mops, or would prefer to place your restaurant supplies order by phone, please contact Customer Service.
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