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Originally posted at 1:09 p.m., December 7, 2009
Phillies Nation will continually update this post throughout the week as the MLB Winter Meetings heat up in Indianapolis.
Day 4:
(6:03 am): The Phillies are now back into the Halladay discussion, according to Ken Rosenthal. He says the Phillies are prepared to ship J.A. Happ, Dom Brown or Michael Taylor, and another prospect to Toronto in a deal. They would also have to trade Joe Blanton to free up money for this to happen. My thought: is this 100% worth it? The bounty is not as high as last season, however, giving up Blanton means two very good starters would be out, plus some prospects. Interesting scenarios are brewing out in Indy early today.
Also, late last night, the Houston Astros swooped in and landed Brandon Lyon for a reported three years, $15 million. That's a bit more than I figured he was worth, especially for a guy who has an up and down track record. I though the Phils might be able to get him at two years under $10 million.
(11:30am): Jason Stark mentions the Phils are seriously considering John Smoltz as a "back-of-the-bullpen weapon." Smoltz's agent apparently told the Phils that the pitcher has no problem with Citizens Bank Park; although we all know that has not always been the case. Smoltz has bashed the Phillies home field on numerous occasions.
(2:18pm) With the 17th overall pick, the Phillies selected Kenneth David Herndon from the Angels' AA team. Herndon is a 24 year-old right-handed pitcher who was 5-6 with a 3.03 ERA and 11 saves in 50 appearances last season.
They also picked up Angelo Sanchez, another right handed pitcher. The 20 year-old went 5-1 with a 5.52 ERA in 12 starts with the Twins' AAA affiliate.
On the flip side, the Phillies lost right-hander Carlos Monasterios to the New York Mets. You may remember him as one of the guys in the Bobby Abreu trade of 2006.
Day 3:
(9:38 pm): This Phillies.com headline says it all: Phillies not likely to land Halladay. The Los Angeles Angels made an offer to the Blue Jays, and now it appears the Phillies are out of the mix.
(9:10 pm): Jayson Stark says that the Phillies have been equally aggressive on Fernando Rodney as they have been on Brandon Lyon. Stark questions if the Phillies would pay Rodney "closer-type money."
(8:04 pm): Roy Halladay update: Jon Heyman of SI joins the fray saying he's heard that the Phillies are joining the Halladay discussions. Who in your opinion has the best shot out of the Phils, Red Sox, Angels, or Yankees in the hunt for Doc?
(7:23 pm): Things have been relatively quiet regarding the Phillies over the past few hours. However, if your scoring at home, cross Matt Lindstrom, LaTroy Hawkins, and possibly, Rich Harden, off your lists. Lindstrom went to Houston in a trade, Hawkins signed with Milwaukee, and Harden might be on his way to the Rangers. I'm a big fan of Harden and what he can bring, although he might be a reliever very soon because he just cant stay healthy. I also brought up Lindstrom here on this forum a few days ago as a possible back-end guy, but Ed Wade struck while the iron was hot.
(3:53 pm): Earlier today, Todd Zolecki wrote a post saying the Phillies have just as good a chance as any other team at acquiring the services of Roy Halladay. He polled executives around the league asking if they thought the Phillies had enough depth down on the farm to make something happen, and many said they did. Still, does it make sense to get Halladay for what will likely be one year? I see the Angels and Red Sox as front runners here, and the Yankees in the mix too if they are willing to give up either Phil Hughes or Joba Chamberlain. It pains me to say that, because I hate that they get all the "good" players out there, but such is the case. Would anyone hate to see Happ/Brown/Gose go for possibly one season of Doc?
(2:37 pm): John Smoltz and Ron Mahay are two names that have popped back up within the past few hours. Smoltz would fight for the fifth spot in the rotation, and/or a late-inning bullpen situation. Personally, I believe Smoltz is better suited as a bullpen arm. He'd fit well in the Myers/Park role. He pitched well at times last year, but seemed to be a three inning guy. In 2009, from the fourth inning on, Smoltz recorded an ERA of 5.40. He never once reached the seventh inning in any game last season.
Mahay is a great option should Scott Eyre walk away for good. Mahay is 37 (why does it seem like every lefty is at least 35?) and posted an ERA just north of four a season ago with Kansas City and Minnesota. He would ably fill the gap left by Eyre and can be the #1 lefty if JC Romero is not healthy enough for a return at the start of the season.
(2:25 pm): Sorry for the delay on the news, but we've finally resolved our server problems. It was Phillies overload.
By now, you know that the Phillies inked Ross Gload to a two-year deal to round out their bench. The terms of the contract have not yet been released, but the Phillies bench certanly will look a lot different than last season. Gload hit .261/.329/.729 last season with Florida. This is an OK move for RAJ to make. Gload won't knock your socks off, but can play several positions and led the NL in pinch hits in 2009. I would rather the Phillies saved the money on Gload and went with a younger option, but following last seasons bench debacle, it's understandable Amaro would solidify that shortcoming right away. More soon…
Day 2:
(4:09 pm): Looks like that three-team trade between Arizona, Detroit, and the New York Yankees will be made. The main pieces, Curtis Granderson and Edwin Jackson, will go to New York and Arizona, respectively. The Tigers get a bunch of youngsters in return, including pitcher Max Scherzer.
You may not want to hear this, but now that a few of the Yankees blue chippers are packing, does that take them out of the Roy Halladay sweepstakes completely? Does that also bolster the Phillies chances of getting Doc? One of the Yankees top prospects, Austin Jackson, goes to Detroit, so they lose that piece which would certainly be involved for Halladay. This is all just a forethought, obviously, but it's something to think about. Although nothing really stops the Yankees from making trades.
(12:59 pm):All the talk over the last 24 hours here in Phillie-land has been about Joe Blanton. Is it wise to move him? How much will he make next season? Why would Brad Penny get so much in free agency? (I threw the last one in myself). David Murphy has put his own spin on it, and in his heart of hearts does not believe Big Joe goes. That doesn't mean it won't happen, however, I think it's something the Phillies certainly need to explore.
(10:38 am): My own two cents again, but after seeing what some pitchers are reeling in on the open market money-wise, I'd almost rather go with Bastardo, Escalona, and Condrey in the pen, with Kendrick, Moyer, and Free-Agent-to-be-Named in the running for the fifth rotation spot. That would leave one relief spot open for a guy like Lyon, who looks to be commanding at least $5 million at this point (just a guess). Rafael Soriano getting nearly $8 million through arb? Maybe I'm nieve, but none of the guys out there seem worth that kind of dough? Didn't think Wagner was worth it, or Penny either. Guess that's just the way the market is opening up in the early going.
(9:02 am): According to Jon Paul Morosi, several teams are in on J.J. Putz. He lists the Cubs, White Sox, D'Backs, Rangers, Nationals, and Tigers as all having interest, but don't be surprised if Rube is kicking the tires on the former Met. The 32-year old made $6 million last season, but was hindered by injuries, posting a 5.22 ERA in just 29 appearances. Prior to his '09 failure, Putz was a revelation in Seattle, putting up 36 and 40 saves in 2006 and 2007, respectively. He'd fit in nicely with Lidge and Madson toward the back of the 'pen, but at what cost?
(8:39 am): Paul Hagen of the Philadelphia Daily News brings back our old friend Brett Myers as a possible free agent starting pitcher. Hagen wonders why the Phillies haven't looked his way at all this offseason. I'd be all for it if Myers wanted to take a one-year, incentive laden deal, however, reports have him seeking a two-year deal, and he wants a shot at closing if he's in the bullpen. I'm not sure you can count on him as a starter, and I'm pretty certain his shtick grew tired here, so it's doubtful we will see Myers again in '10.
Cross some relievers off your big board if your scoring at home. Rafael Soriano and Rafael Betancourt each accepted arbitration with their respective clubs. Soriano will be back with Atlanta, reportedly for somewhere in the $6.5-$8 million range. Betancourt is looking for a raise from the $3.55 million he made with Colorado in 2009. Other relief pitchers who reject arbitration: Jose Valverde, Fernando Rodney, and Brian Shouse.
Day 1:
(7:30 pm): Take Brad Penny off your list of possible Phillies starters for next year. He has signed a one-year (get ready for this), $7.5 million contract, plus $1.5 million in incentives, to join the St. Louis Cardinals.
Wow. That seems like a hefty amount for a guy who was released mid-season by the Boston Red Sox. He finished with a 4.88 ERA between Boston and San Francisco, winning 11 games in 173 1/3 innings. Hopefully, like with the Billy Wagner deal, this doesn't hinder the Phillies attempts to acquire a starter through free agency.
(6:10 pm):Justin Duchscherer is now a free agent after declining arbitration from the Oakland A's, according to ESPN's Jerry Crasnick. Duchscherer missed all of 2009, but is a former two-time all star – once as a starter, once as a reliever. He is at the head of the buy-low class, and reports are out there that he may go to an east coast team; the reason being his divorced wife and son live in New Jersey. Assuming he is healthy and has gotten past his personal issues, Duchscherer would look great with a Phillies "P" on his cap.
(4:45 PM): Martino tweets about the Phillies bringing back both Chad Durbin and Clay Condrey, although nothing is set just yet. Condrey seems like a no-brainer to me, but Durbin is a different story. He made $1.65 million last season, so that figure may rise north of $2 million. Not sure he is worth that much. Thoughts?
(3:00 PM): Earlier today, Andy Martino of the Inquirer posted that the Phillies are meeting with representatives from Chan Ho Park's camp to figure out where both sides are regarding a contract. Park as said previously he wants to start, but the Phils view him as a very good piece in the bullpen. He made $2.5 million last year and almost assuredly will be in line for a raise. Park was an integral part that kept a shaky bullpen in one piece throughout the 2009 season, however, $3 million or more might be too much for the Phils to think about.
(2:17 pm): This is just my own two cents, but looking at our bullpen situation, does Matt Lindstrom make sense here in Philly? The Marlins are reportedly shopping him and he's coming off a season in which injuries took their toll on him. Lindstrom throws in the upper-90's, but does struggle with some control issues. However, he's arb-eligible this year and next, so he would come cheap. The question is, which prospects would it take to nab him from Florida? Anyone for or against this idea?
(1:00 pm):The first bit of Phillies news coming out is from Ed Price of AOL Fanhouse regarding Joe Blanton. Price says the Phils are considering moving Blanton because of his arbitration price-tag. Big Joe made $5.475 million last season, and is due a raise after a stellar 2009 campaign.
Blanton would be looking at somewhere in the $7 million ballpark through arbitration, so trading him would give the Phils new flexibility. However, it would take away one of the most solid #3's in the National League.
402 Comments
Why in the HELL would they trade Joe Blanton?!?? The Phillies organization is swimming in money, no reason at all they can't come up with the cash to pay whatever his arbitration number ends up being. I'm sick of this small market b.s. They've been to the World Series two years in a row now, they need to start acting like it! Only reason i'd be willing to trade him is if somehow they ended up with Halladay as a result.
Say it aint so Joe!
The only way you trade Blantan is if you sign a top tier pitcher for multiple years.
trade blanton taylor and d'naud for halladay or at least offer
I guess Rube wants another lefty.
what does moyer make this year again?
Theyre up to something sneaky…that doesnt make sense at all unless you UPGRADE. if you trade him for some young righty who makes minimum (Brandon Morrow) I dont think youre really getting better…
I'm not going to pretend Joe Blanton is the greatest pitcher ever, but he is a solid #3, is out there every 5th day, gives the team a chance to win most starts, and the only reliable right handed starter on the staff. Also, in regards to the $ – are they kidding? $7M, or even $8M, is reasonable. Who are they going to get at that price to start 28 games a year, go at least 6 innings most of the time, and break up the lefties? I like the thought of Pedro M. coming back in an incentive laden contract, but he is a complete wild card – can only pitch once/week if you are lucky, will probably be out of gas by the playoffs. Are they thinking Drabek will be up by July?
I was shocked at first but it makes a lot of sense.
You are only saying "we're listening" to potential offers… in the end he'll probably stay with us.
I guess the logic here is that if some other team is willing to take Blanton (and his 7 million) we would free up enough payroll to add a top-of-order righty starter (aka Roy Halladay). And then sign him to an extension. Seems like a longshot… but Halladay must be moved and only 3 or 4 teams (including the Phillies) are potential candidates. (Some more speculation: You would take those prospects from the Blanton trade, add Taylor and some other guy, and you have a decent package to make a Halladay trade.)
It's just keeping a door open, and listening to offers; there aren't too many good starting pitchers out there and it would be wise to listen and see what other teams are willing to give up.
Brandon Morrow is a 1st rd draft pick.. with LOADS of potential .. he got bounced around between the bullpen and the rotation .. but I doubt they trade him for anything besides superstar prospects
Phillies aren't just going to dump Joe Blanton for no reason … they made a firm stance before that you don't add to your team by subtracting from the current roster .. so Joe Blanton wouldn't go unless they were sure they were getting a huge return on him
But adding a Major League pitcher to a deal with prospects.. can definitely get you a nice return.
I wouldn't put too much into the fact that they would listen to offers on Blanton.. a starting pitcher like him will be making $8-10 M per season next year, and beyond.. I doubt the Phillies will want to pay him that much money to be a #3-#4 pitcher
If they do make a Blanton trade, you bet they'll do that to UPGRADE the rotation.
I freaking KNEW this would reignite Halladay talk.
This is really pissing me off. If they wont pay Lee the money what makes you think theyll pay it to Hallday? I would be totally shocked if they landed Halladay and signed him to an extension. Its wreckless to get him if youre not going to do that.
I cant see it, theyve gotta have their eye on someone none of us are thinking about. This had better be good….Joe Blanton is predictable and solid. You know what he can do when hes on, but most of the time he gives you a decent chance to win the game….
Trading Blanton would really give the Phils the payroll flexibility they would need to trade for Halladay this year and would give them the chance to sign either Lee or Doc to an extension. Also, it saves them from having to make the decision of offering Blanton arbitration next year or losing him for nothing.
The Phils should be up to something B I G if they are considering trading Blanton. He has been instrumental in our success the past two years. I am all for it if they wind up with a Justin Verlander, or someone like that. But let's not go cheap. I have to trust Rueben Jr.
I guess everyone is for sale for the right price (the only guys on the team I wouldn't listen to offers for are Utley and Werth, but would have to be overwhelmed to discuss Howard, J-Roll, Hamels, Lee, or Ruiz). Hopefully, there is a plan in place, not just scared of adding $1M for a solid starter.
I remember when the Yanks pulled Clemens out of retiring, thinking what a quality start is worth. Is 20 per year worth $250K per start? $500k? $1M? Different for every team, but probably in the $500k range. For a playoff team, that puts the starting pitching at around $50M – 60M, which is probably close for the Phils, Angels, and Stl, low for the Yanks and Boston, high for LA Dodgers. Should be an interesting off-season.
Halladay is more likely, because he'll be looking for a 3-4 year contract.. Cliff Lee will be seeking AT LEAST 5 years
I can't see us trading for Halladay and giving up prospects, when we could possibly get him in the offseason.. for nothing
AGAINST LINDSTROM … the last thing we need is another guy in the bullpen that has "control issues"
Yeah that could be a disaster with Lindstrom. It looks like Betancourt and Soriano may accept arb. I would like them to sign Lyon. I think Fernando Rodney is slop. Itll be intersting to see how this unfolds.
We have a 2 year window imho, spend now and worry about the bill in 2012. Now is the time to win. If we don't get Halladay, why bother talking about winning the World Series. I know we can win the NL, but without Big Roy, I don't see us beating the AL Champ. ie Sox, Skanks or Angels.
Again…..we all just have to wait and see how this all unfolds….everyone just needs to have some patience….and confidence in RAJ and the rest of the front office…I'm sure that whatever they do will be enough to put a championship-caliber team on the field..
Blanton will NOT be given away…for sure….but you have to "listen" to what's out there….
And I agree…..Lee will be seeking a longer deal than Halladay…..so to SERIOUSLY listen to deals involving Halladay makes a whole lot of sense..
Everyone needs to be prepared for the possibility (and probability) that Cliff Lee WON'T be a Phillie next season..
Ugh. Time to get creative again. Let me ask this. Who in the American league would benefit from a pitcher like Blantan? NL? Need some ideas to come up with a three team deal.
interesting, allegedly the Mets got Edwin Jackson, not sure for what…
my reaction: GOOD! He is NOT that good…
Every team in baseball would benefit from a guy like Joe Blanton .. the issue is that the Phillies don't want to pay their #3-4 starter, $10 M per year
and that is what Blanton would get on the open market.. he's got playoff experience, throws a lot of innings every year.. he's valuable (but he's valuable to us still, so I don't expect him to be traded)
Linstrom is just too reckless.. and I doubt the Marlins would deal him in the NL EAST, without taking a king's ransom in return .. I just don't see any trade working there
I can't believe the Mets are trading people from their already thin farm system..
you are based in New York .. you have money to spend on Free Agents, if you would only choose wisely ….. sucks that they have Omar Minaya making decisions for them
Yeah I saw…the Mets are a disaster.
I do not see how Big Joe is not worth 7 million a year, so I think there is some grand plan going on, if they get the right offer. I do not think it is the money he will be getting, IMO I think RAJ has his eye on some prize we do not comming.
Mets rumor being denied. mlbtr says Dodgers, Brewers, Mets not involved.
Wouldn't Jackson get more in return than Blantan. Just as good and cheaper?
Blanton IS worth $7 M per season…. but he'll make more than that.. and with the rest of our team due to get big raises ..
you have to cut losses where you can
If keeping Werth around past next season, means we would have to let Blanton go.. i think you have to do that. … that's just an example of course.
but you have to keep payroll under control ..
Happ is going to get a big raise when he gets arbitration.. Victorino and Werth will have to get paid $7-10 M+ to stay . .
That money adds up really, really quickly
don m our entire of will walk. werth will get 12-15 mil and 5 years somewhere if he playx another year at his potential. victorino is ridiculously overrated. taylor will be up in 11 to replace werth
Based on MLB report the Dodgers are looking for a starter in exchange for George Sherrill. Sherrill would give us the back of bullpen jolt we need (along with potential to be the closer should we need one).
Phils could play the market for another #3-#4 if they trade Joe Blanton.
As stated by others, these are not zero sum calculations. You can't say you wouldn't trade Blanton until you hear the other side of the equation. The Phils may also be trying to negotiate a longer-term contract with Blanton and this may just be a negotiation threat.
id do blanton for sherril im a heart beat. sherrill fills 2 voids. back end pitcher that can close and a late innings lefty specialist
Lindstrom would work here. Considering the Phillies like Lyons but apparently don't want to pay the money or go the distance on a contract for him, he is probably out of the picture.
As for Blanton, trading him away is absolutely retarded. What if you trade him and you can't work out a deal for Halladay? Then what? Then you have 3 starters.
Makes no sense to trade a solid 3 who for stretches a year looks like a 2, when you don't even know who your 5th starter is going to be. Hopefully this is just talk to generate interest. If the team is worried about money then maybe they should trade one of their position players. You pay for pitching, thats just the way it goes.
But..he has no control at all man. Remember when he gave up like 7 runs in that blown save last year? After watching that…heck no.
Blanton for Sherrill? Eh, I dont think so. Starting Pitching, especially Blanton, always has more value than that.
It has more value….IF the back end of your bullpen is already set and strong….which ours isn't…
I'm not saying that Blanton for Sherrill is the right deal….but I think you have to consider ALL possibilities….in order to make the team better AS A WHOLE..
Sherrill for Blanton? Oh, please.
Blanton is a starter!!!!
sherrill is a better closer than blanton is a starter…sherrill is also under team control longer and for less if im not mistaken. id rather have sherrill in our pen and kk starting than just joe b
back end of our bullpen won't matter if we lose Blanton … and are forced to rely on Kyle Kendrick .. we would be trailing by 8 runs after 4 innings.. so it wouldn't matter who we had pitching next
If the Phillies lose both Werth and Victorino over the two years… we will suck
Because we're starting to see the decline of guys like Ibanez, Rollins, Lidge.. Eyre-Romero ..some of those role players
By the time Taylor, Brown, etc are good enough to carry our team in the postseason.. Howard will be gone, Rollins will be retired .. etc
Sure he's a starter…..who's gonna require maybe $10 mil after this season to keep in a Phillies uniform..
IF the Phils can work out some sort of deal for Halladay (cause Lee probably will be too expensive to keep)….that gives you Halladay, Hamels, Happ and Drabek going into 2011….and then you go out and fill the 5th spot with someone A WHOLE LOT cheaper than $10 mil…
Again…I'm not saying that Sherrill for Blanton is the right deal….but ALL scenarios HAVE to be listened too….in order to make this team better….not only for this year…but for the next few…..
rollins retired? hes 30 and had an off year…middle infielders have a lot more longevity than other players
Kyle Kendrick is NOT the answer….Period!!
Jimmy Rollins' had played in the majors for like 10 years already.. you think that he'll still be playing in another 5 ?
"By the time Taylor, Brown, etc are good enough to carry our team in the postseason.. Howard will be gone, Rollins will be retired .. etc"
It took Rollins a good 7 years to be ready to lead a team.. 90% of our current roster will be gone by the time Taylor or Brown are team leaders
so if you want to win with Utley, Howard, Rollins.. you better keep the supporting cast of Werth and Victorino here too.
Because if you're willing to get rid of Werth and Vic .. you might as well trade Howard at the same time since you aren't going to be winning anything meaningful anyway
I totally agree with that Don…
If we could get Lindstrom for only 1.5mill I would definitely go after him. I think he would be an upgrade over Durbin. He throws mid-upper 90's and although he can be wild he throws quite a bit of ground balls also. His upside is much higher than Durbin and would actually be cheaper. I say do it if we can.
would they get rid of Lindstrom for free ?? (we just pay his salary and we'll call it even?)
I think Lindstrom lets up like 1.5 baserunners per inning.. and yea he'll strike some guys out..
but with the Polanco deal.. we should we want more consistency in our lineup, and I think they'll look to do the exact same thing with the bullpen. We don't need a guy that strikes out 19 guys per inning… just the guy that doesn't walk a lot, and can throw some ground balls
Amaro serves Theo Epstein a few too many Irish Car Bombs and swaps Kyle Kendrick for Josh Beckett. You heard it here first!
ducky is an FA and wants to play on the East Coast. Phils should pick him with an incentive laiden contract.
We should just let Kendrick go. He may get back to major league level but it would do him the best to start fresh with a new team.
Pedro, I would let him go too….let's go after a younger pitcher with less health issues. Unfortunately I think Moyer will be in the same category as Pedro.
Exactly…if were trotting Kendrick out there we could have Mariano and it wouldnt really matter because even hed get worn down.
Come on man…
I hear that Pedro ran out of gas at the end after a few months!
Dom, absolutely rollins will play another 5 seasons unless there is some sort of careers ending injury. Derek Jeter is coming up on his 15 season in the majors which shows that shortstops can last that long. I'm not saying jimmy is derek jeter, but that doesnt mean he wont last another 5 seasons. If in 5 years Jimmy Rollins in not a member of the Phillies it will not be because of retirement.
There seems to be a lot of talk about signing Justin Duscherer. Which sounds good to me as well. There is also talk about trading Blanton, or even Happ. Why not do it all?! Blanton and Happ in a deal for Halladay may be extremely interesting to the ears of Toronto. And signing Duscherer would give the Phils a good #3 or #4 guy… That would give us a rotation of Lee, Halladay(interchangeable), Hamels, Duscherer, and someone low-risk, high-reward for #5…. I like the thought of bringing Pedro M. back as well. And if he and Kendrick are willing to spot start for each other, giving Kendrick experience and Pedro rest, why not give that a look? That way the pressure isn't on either one solely. And, the other is good for the bullpen, and still be able to start every 10 days.
Penny for 7 million plus incentives just set a crazy market for pitching. I wonder what Lackey and Harden will command now.
I hope so. He was cut for the love of Pete. I guess they have confidence in Tim Duncan to help Penney turn it around. Lackey must be licking his chops.
Penny is GARBAGE, I cant believe that he got 7 Million! Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
Guess the recession is over…
I would not give Chad Durbin any more than $1.8 million if I were the Phils. I agree with you Pat that Durbin is not worth over $2 million. Was really an up and down pitcher last season. I think that the Phils can do better than this guy/find a better reliever to fill his slot.
I'm not the biggest Blanton fan but if Penny's getting 7.5 mil, Joe is worth at least that. No more Durbin please. Use the money for Park.
Jimmy retireing in 5 years? Are you crazy? I cannot see that AT ALL! Jimmy Rollins is a Juan Piere/Kenny Loftin type of player. As long as he still has his legs Jimmy will be in a major leauge uniform, whether its the Phillies or the Oakland As (remember Jimmy is from Oakland) and I can see Jimmy retireing in his hometown…Sort of like they did with Lieberthal, and Wolf (wolf to an extent). The Phillies family looks after their homegrown kids…They figure if you still want to play at that age, they will try to get on a team closer to your family & friends…Atleast in my oppinion
BTW…As much as we all would love to see Blanton involved in any Halladay trade, it wont happen. Theres always a possibility, but thats very unlikely. It's almost 90% possitive that its a "Starter for Starter" trade, because if it isn't it wouldn't make sense at all. It's like stripping us butt ass naked. Who would be our 3 or 4 guy? Happ is elegible enough to be a solid #3 but in my opinion a solid #4 for now. Lee/Hamels/Happ/??????/Moyer/Kendrick. I say get Duchscherer, resign Martinez, and maybe another low risk, high reward type of bullpen guy and were good enough to make another run.
I'm completely fine with moving Blanton as long as it's either an upgrade of a starter, or a lateral move for a younger, cheaper 3/4 starter. I'd like to see an upgrade from Joe, because while I really like the guy, I'd like to see a better #3 guy. Happ isn't as good as he was last year, and he should fall back to earth once all the luck starts to even out…
Also, I heard the Phils are looking at Aroldis Chapman, and for the right price, I'd be thrilled to have him. To have a kid like him, as well as Kyle Drabek, ready to come up in the future would be huge. A big lefty with a 102 mph heater who is said to be one of the top 3 pitchers in the world that isn't in the MLB…Of course, I set our chances of getting Chapman at about the same chances of us getting Halladay (aka almost zero…)
The last 20 years of performance enhancement has completely screwed up the expected lifespan of an effective major leaguer. You have to watch how a player evolves. Jimmy Rollins may be the nl gold glove at ss, but like Jeter, it is more based upon name recognition and the lack of another star in a large market team. Jimmy's range, while still better than most, has decreased the last two years (not based upon statistics, although they may back it up, just based upon watching games). His bat speed also seems to be slowing down. He has never been the ideal lead-off hitter, now he is better suited to a bottom of the order guy. Unfortunately, we have few alternatives (Vic has been terrible when put in lead-off, Werth would do well, but then you lose Howard's protection and a ton of RBIs).
If Howard is still playing in 5 years, it won't be with the Phils – like Hamels, he is salivating at the chance to get a big contract in free agency, and big guys tend to fall off a cliff in their mid thirties (Luzinski, Vaughn, Jim Rice,….). He won't give a home team discount, and the Phils won't resign him. Probably a DH if still around. Utley will be a first baseman by then (probably replacing Howard when he goes), Rollins will be a utility infielder if still in baseball. Same with PP.
This team as constructed has a two year window at most. We've been lucky to have the same basic team since 2007. With the exception of the Yanks, no other team in baseball has a core that has been together as long as the Phils, nor experienced more success (look at the NL east, name an infield who have had at least 2 guys play more than 120 games together for 3 straight seasons – Phils are the only ones). Now the question is do you mortgage part of the 4th best farm system in baseball to win in the nex two years, or put out a competitive team, hope to get lucky, and focus on the next generation?
Keith law is such a tool. He called the Cardinals' signing of Brad Penny "an excellent move." What? 7 million dollars for that slop pitcher? Hahahahaha. That has permanently has no credibility, as if he had any before anyway.
Thats a bad deal any way you look at it. The Cardinals must really be arrogant if they feel they can fix Penny. Im sick of lauding that pitching coach anyways. They only pitch well for him, and when they leave they usually suck again. Like, Id take Joel Piniero if he pitches like that again, but once he leaves that place he will suck again.
I know he's an idiot and has had some (ok, a lot of) off-field issues, but I always liked Myers: goofy off the field, intense on it – like that one buddy who is always in trouble, but at the drop of a hat is there to help when needed. I think he would be a great back of the bullpen guy, and a decent back-up closer. Have to think there is a personality clash somewhere, either in the clubhouse, or with upper management. Good luck Brett.
Putz wouldn't be a a bad pick-up if you could get him to take and incentive laden deal, but the recent signings seem to be way out of whack $$ – not sure if anyone is going cheap.
Randy Wolf looks poised to land a 3 year, 28M deal with the Brewers. Wow.
Well, at least that..
ANy good young arms out there that a contender would trade for Blantan? The reason I ask is why not look at a three team deal.
Blanta to team A. Young major league ready pitcher to Toronto.
Phils add prospects that go to the Blue Jays for Halladay.
So, let me get this straight…The Braves have committed 16.5-18 million dollars next season for 3 relievers…2 of which are 38 or older? Are they nuts?
No, please everyone stop!!! Its driving me crazy. Dont take it personally anyone, but this is like a mad sickness. Just like, everything is about Roy Halladay. The chances of landing him are so remote, mainly because they cannot afford to pay his salary. Hes too good for Toronto to "eat some of his salary," as he will cost enough just to land to begin with. After spending about 8.5 M of that 20M. They have 11.5 remaining. They need another starting pitcher of some sort, from the risky group, and then four relief pitchers. Now, two of those could be Durbin and Condrey if they are tendered contracts for arbitration. however, I do not think Chad Durbin should get tendered. For 2M+ you can do a bit better, or you can get the same production that he gives you for less than 2M. Id tender Condrey an offer. They may be trying again to resign Chan Ho Park and resolve those differences. So say you bring back Park at 3M (little pricey, but eh), and Condrey. Theres two slots. Condrey wont make much though. so lets say 4M between those two.
Now you have 7M left over for two relievers and a starting pitcher who does not suck. One of those will be left-handed because of the uncertainty surrounding Romero.
Now I can begin to see why they are tossing around the idea of trading Joe Blanton.
Durbin has been very good for us over the past two seasons.. his arm just about fell off at the end of last year .. but he goes out there and does his job as a long reliever
Why would TEAM A .. trade a young, major league ready pitcher.. for Joe Blanton (who is a Free Agent next year) .. top help us get Roy Halladay.. which would make the Phillies nearly impossible for TEAM A to beat
Brett Myers is not coming back to Philadelphia… they wouldn't have cut ties with him at the end of the season if they had any plans to possibly bring him back
That is a media story.. not something the Phillies would actually do
They are thinking about dealing Joe Blanton, because when Randy Wolf gets a 3 year, $10 Million per season deal
Joe Blanton would probably get at least that..
and I think they would rather keep Werth and Victorino here than pay "Above Average" Joe Blanton that much money per season. .
I like Blanton, but not for $10 M per season.. and especially not when the extra $3 M per season is the likely difference in keeping one of our OF's here
Rafael Soriano has publicaly said hell request a trade, but he accepted the arb offer because he is smart and he knows that he wont get that on the open market.
Yes, I completely agree.
Werth + Victorino, even for just another year, is preferable. Its starting to look like theyll get that starter via trade anyway.
I mean, if Penny is getting 7.5-9 M, what will Piniero and Marquis get? Who would be ok for a certain price if they reproduce their contract year's. But wouldnt they each command three years at 10 million per? Thats scary.
What could we land the Duke for? Duscherer, I mean. Itd have to be at least what they gave to Penny.
I am actually ok with using Bastardo out of the pen. His ceiling is much higher than the over available lefty free agents that the Phillies could afford.
Id take Condrey, Bastardo, Park, and Lyon as my bullpen slots if thats doable. That would make a formidable bullpen. Youre replacing Durbin with Lyon, which is an upgrade.
It does appear Blanton will be getting 10M per season in FA. So I agree that now is the time to move him if that would ever happen.
Don, I agree, but everyone is saying that Blantan would have to be traded for another pitcher. If not a cheaper younger arm then why would the Phillies do it? I guess it means Blantan will remain a Phil.
I'm all for going after Duchscherer on a contract loaded with incentives.
Obviously Mathiason is a given based on his injury history, but he's got a major league fastball and is progressing. I expect him to have a role in the bigs in 2010.
According to reports the Padres are not going to tender Kevin Correia. Wonder what it would take to get him? I can't see them just letting him walk for nothing. I'm sure we could offer them something for him. He would look good as our 5th starter. Really good. Wouldn't be really expensive. Would think would make under 3mill this year.
in theory.. you would trade Blanton for a cheaper-younger pitcher. .
but the more realistic scenario would be a package deal .. maybe Blanton + Michael Taylor for ???
I can't see anything like that happening though.
I like the idea of trying to be creative, and discuss a possible 3-team deal.. but for the reason I stated above: "Why would TEAM A .. trade a young, major league ready pitcher.. for Joe Blanton (who is a Free Agent next year) .. top help us get Roy Halladay.. which would make the Phillies nearly impossible for TEAM A to beat"
No trade like that would ever happen…
The more teams see how much an AVERAGE pitcher costs as a Free Agent (Wolf, Blanton types making $10 M per season) … teams will do all that they can to hold on to any pitcher they feel might help them win games.. and the team can control that players' salary for 6 years
which is why i am SHOCKED that the Padres might release Kevin Correia (I dont know much about him, but looks good on paper, and he's cheap)
Couple things:
"Yahoo's Tim Brown tweets that Penny will get the full $9MM if he reaches 204 innings. Also, the Cardinals agreed not to offer arbitration if Penny is a Type A free agent (a clause I'm betting will be popular this year)."
interesting that players will be so careful with the NO-ARBITRATION clause, probably more than the NO-TRADE clause
There is talks of a 3-team trade: Tigers, Yankees, Diamonbacks
Tigers get:
Max Shcerezer – from Arizona,
Austin Jackson, Phil Coke, and Mike Dunn – from NYY
Yankees get:
Curtis Granderson …and one or two prospects from Arizona
Diamondbacks get:
Edwin Jackson – from Detroit
Ian Kennedy – from NYY
… this has since been called "VERY UNLIKELY" .. but it's interesting to see the Yankees letting Ian Kennedy and Austin Jackson's names float around
Jackson is who the Blue Jays want for Halladay.. along with either Hughes or Joba
Don M, I would be shocked if it was ANY team BUT the Padres. They are in shambles right now. They are in financial ruins and having to pay a pitcher north of 2 mill would take up too much of their payroll right now. I'm not sure what they would want but I am sure they wouldn't want anyone with ML experience with their service clock started. I say we go after him.
Then baseball seriously needs to have a MINIMUM SALARY CAP
because its terrible for the sport that the Marlins, Padres, Royals, Pirates, etc..
have to trade all their good players to the Red Sox, Yankees, Angels.. because they simply can't afford to keep them
Teams with unlimited resources can spend more on Draft Picks, Scouting, International Scouting, etc.. so they have more and better prospects to trade to these small market teams.
If Pittsburgh makes the playoffs in the next ten years I'll buy new cars for all my friends
I totally agree. If you cant meet the minimum salary floor then you should be allowed to own a team, period!!!!
Do they HAVE to trade their young talent or are they unwilling to risk not turning a profit? I'm pretty sure I just read that the Pirates have turned a profit for 6 consecutive seasons. So, is it a matter of teams unwilling to not turn a profit one year rather than look to the long term appreciation of a winning team?
Its a matter of turning a profit, period. I used to live in Pittsburhg during college and grad school…ask any of those fans. They make bank even though nobody goes to the games.
they make money due to profit-sharing from the larger market teams.. teams that have cable networks pay them MILLIONS per year just to broadcast their games
because there is a bigger fan base, more demand, etc..
If baseball wants to have any chance at remaining the National Pastime.. they need to get these payrolls under control.. on both the extreme HIGH end, and the extreme LOW end
Yeah definitely…I agree with that…
I think the downside is a bigger issue than the upside. If teams were forced to spend to a threshhold we wouldn't have these issues where teams trade away young talent because they don't want to have to pay them in order to turn a profit. The upside teams pay a penalty for going too high so the bottom teams should be penalized as well. If the bottom teams hold onto their young talent you would think they would win more games which in turn would bring in more revenue. It's just getting them over that short term outlook.
Bingo, Don… say what you want about the Yankees, they're good for baseball. The Pirates would never be able to field a team if they didn't have revenue sharing… their model is to keep costs low, churn out young talent and sell just enough tickets to make a profit. They are able to sell a few tickets because baseball fans are hopeful animals by nature and young players are fun to watch. I'm sure they hope that one year they'll have enough young talent on the field to win something but they're making money and that's really all that matters, isn't it? I don't know if they have a large enough fan base (and potential fan base) to justify spending money to try to win with what they've got. One thing is for sure, they've had a lot of talent roll through Pittsburgh. Recently, they've had J. Bay, X. Nady, A. LaRoche, A. McCutchen, F. Sanchez, N. Morgan… go back further… Ba. Bonds, D. Drabek, B. Bonilla… you get the point. They can't afford to keep guys; they are forced to shake up the can and see which combinations land on the table, hoping they hit that elusive yahtzee!
Looks like that big three way deal is done and contingent on physicals. mlbtr says Dunn was removed from the deal. Details coming.
Cheap teams usually win nothing. To get rid of Blanton because he is arbitration-eligible really burns my buns. If the Phils are in bad shape financially then that is one thing. They are a profit-making organization that will tumble badly financially if they do not not make sound team-improving decisions. These cost money. Sad fact, but true. Either play to win or get out of the game all together. As fans we have stuck by the team through thick and thin, we have won recently and we like it too much not to care otherwise. WE WANT TO WIN AGAIN, and Again and again.
Anyone else puzzled why Arizona values Edwin Jackson more than Max Scherzer?
Detroit made out fairly well on the deal, they get two lefties for the pen, a top notch prospect whos close to being ready to be a starting outfielder for them, and a young, cheap 3rd or 4th starter to go into their rotation. Assuming come guys come back healthy and in form the Tigers are going to have a good rotation…
Rick Porcello
Max Scherzer
Thats not too shabby…
But…how did they let the freaking Yankees get Granderson. That ticks me off…they could have at least pawned off Miguel Cabrera to ruin that team..
original chuck, while you are right they can't afford what the yankees can afford, the bottom teams are not spending what they can. i'd be curious what their profit looks like, but ownership won't open their books. something like $90M goes to those lower teams between revenue sharing and tv contracts, yet their total salary for the year doesn't even come close to that.
there is something grossly wrong with that, i'm glad i'm not a fan of a team that follows that mantra and opens their wallet for the fans.
I don't think the Phillies would get rid of Blanton "because he is arbitration eligable"
I think they would get rid of him, because after this season, he becomes a Free Agent, and they won't want to pay him $10 Million per season for 3-4 years
And I can't blame them
Granderson is going to love that short porch in right. WHose odd man out Damon or Cabrera?
I think they offered Damon $20 M over 2 years?
The thing to do with Blanton is to use him as part of a three-way deal for an ace.
Problem is, there aren't any aces really available. So I can't see anything getting done.
So, three years ago Gillick paid Adam Eaton $24 million over three years, and last year Amaro gave Moyer $16 million over two years, but now they're worried about having to pay big Joe $10 million a year? It doesn't make sense to me – especially with so much money coming off the books over the next two seasons. There were long stretches of 2009 when Blanton was their most reliable starter.
Theyre worried about it because those were bad moves, and a reason why they may not be able to afford to do that…signing Jamie Moyer for 2 years 16 million was almost as bad of a move as Eaton's 3 year, 24 million dolllar deal. They were terrible moves.
I still maintain the Phillies recent success has been in spite of the ownership, not because of it. Middleton is the only one I care for, the rest are a bunch of cheap money grubbers, who don't seem to have the business sense to recognize that by investing in a better product (the team) they increase the potential for long term, sustained profitability. If they get cheap now, and let this team wither away, then in 5 years, the franchise will be right back where it started, with much lower attendance, and no real outlook for great success either financially or on the field.
Of course I believe the Phillies will always turn a profit, but what I mean here is that they have a chance to really establish themselves as one of those elite franchises, that's always a threat to win it all, has a national fan base, and is aggressive in getting elite players because they recognize that by doing that, they INCREASE their profits, because success= lots of fan support=money
I agree that, if they WOULD make the investment. Even something as small as signing Cliff Lee to an extension, or locking up Victorino or Werth – THOSE would be wise moves if they want to pony up the money. If they magically traded for Roy Halladay and extended him, that would be a good investment too.
There is a little something to that If they dont keep the right players around and KEEP Taylor and Brown and Drabek to replenish to stock then in a few years theyll have guys that are old and losing power and expensive. It is important to fuse new blood into the mix, but they must keep a winning team in tact as long as possible so that those kids arent pressured too much from the beginning. RUSHING Kyle Drabek up because you have nothing else in front of him could ruin the kid. Its happened before with the Phillies…you all remember it….they need to be patient with him.
I like the Polanco move for that reaon. I see little to no value in getting DeRosa or Figgins or Beltre instead. Polanco fits for this group of players. It keeps them a veteran winning group. I really would like to bring in Lyon to bolster the bullpen. And resolve this situation with the starting rotation.
But short of any obvious indications that theyre ready to shell out even more money than the 20M they said…making SMART signings that help you win now is the way to go – which is what RAJ has been doing since he took over. Sans Moyer.
Given the fact that Blanton is gone after this season (they won't re-sign him for what he's going to ask), the Phillies should consider trading Blanton if they can get better now or at a minumum remain even and upgrade the future. These are the scenarios that could play out:
a) trade Blanton for a solid prospect or two (better than they would get as draft compensation) AND subsequently sign a free-agent #3 or #4 starter (not worse this year, better in the future)
b) trade Blanton (and prospect) for a top of the rotation pitcher that is veritably better… which makes us better this year
c) trade Blanton for a cheaper position need (bench/utility?) and sign or trade for a marginally better free agent pitcher with the cost savings… can't do without a starting pitcher. Better this year
As long as the Stadium continues to sell out, hopefully they will keep spending more.
We'll never make Yankees money, but we can definitely cement ourselves in the top earners bracket with a consistently great team.
It is a lot more profitable to make the playoffs and spend 40 million more on payroll than it is to not make the playoffs with a low payroll.
Yeah it is. The Phillies should be in that range now where they always have a 100M+ payroll and can always compete. As long as people keep filling that beautifcul place down there which I already miss – but once I step outside and remember its cold I remember.
I like option A or B. option B is less likely, option A is reasonable. Marquis, Piniero, guys like that are decent 3/4 type guys who could do an admirable job is Blanton was traded, but would they sign for less than the money Blanton would get? I have my doubts and concerns about that…
Randy Wolf was offered 3 years 31M from the Brewers….wow, hell probably sign that…so Wolf is average a shade over 10M a year, with Penny getting 7.5-9.
I dunno…
Ohh of course it's important to make smart decisions with the money they spend, and to add young players to the mix as well. But my assertion is that they'll try to get away without spending the money at all if they can. Only trade Blanton if you can add another piece somewhere else, and use the money to go get another pitcher, don't deal him just for the sake of shedding his salary or out of fear of what he might cost next season. Doing that would be a backward step, and not in keeping with what an elite, winning franchise does.
Um, yeah, I just think they know that though. They are obviously not going to trade Blanton without a plan in place to upgrade or replace him. That would be stupid, Amaro is not stupid.
I'm not so sure, Geoff. Remember, this recent success has been a departure from how the Phillies usually fare, as much as I hate to say it. Wouldn't surprise me at all if they simply dumped him just to shed salary.
Sheez, I looked at the Yanks payroll. They're at 197 mil if the sign Damon and Pettite for 21 total. That's 197 for 15 players. Does that take them out of the Halladay sweepsteakes or is that wishful thinking?
I thouht the Yankees said they were trying to TRIM payrtoll….you forgot Granderson…8.5M this year escalating for the next 3/4 years….
Three years ago, they weren't paying Howard $20 Million..
Two years ago, they weren't paying Utley $15 Million.. or Lidge $12.5 Million
Or Werth $7 Million ..
you have to look at the entire team and payroll.. not just "they paid Eaton x, and Moyer xyz"
I agree that the Ynkas are probably out of the Halladay sweepsteaks unless they don;t sign Petite or Damon. there has to be a way to create a three way deal involving Blantan.
I completely, totally, 100% disagree with a lot of what was just said..
"The Phillies are winning in spite of the ownership, not because of it."
"If they get cheap now, and let this team wither away, then in 5 years, the franchise will be right back where it started"
If the Phillies has made moves that the fans wanted.. Carlos Beltran, Derek Lowe, Alphonso Soriano .. etc.. we wouldn't have won a god damn thing. let alone 3 NL EAST crowns, and a World Series..
By being "cheap" and not selling the entire farm system for rental players, like Halladay.. they are trying their best to ensure that we ARE STILL GOOD in 5 years.
Because I am pretty sure that the 2015 Phillies will look pretty different.. and if Drabek, and Brown, Gose, Taylor, whoever else turn out to be any good .. at least we'll have some homegrown talent to add pieces to
We trade them all now for Halladay.. maybe he signs an extension for 3 years… but then you can't pay him, Hamels, Howard, Utley, Werth, Victorino, etc.. you can't pay them all what they are worth, because then your payroll will be so high that people wouldn't be able to afford tickets to the games.
I, for one, am so thankful for the team(s) the Phillies Front Office has put on the field the past 5 years.. that you will almost never hear me say anything negative about the decisions they make.
Yeah thats true. I wanna be able to afford to go to the games. If they were the Yankees I would not be able to afford to go to more than one or two games a year, like the Flyers….
Id like them to make sure that Werth and Victorino are here UNTIL Brown and Taylor or Gose are ready to actually START. Not just come and be thrown to the Wolves. They wont win like that. They need to grom them and have them be ready, same with Drabek. Not just let a bunch of guys leave abnd HOPE the kids are alright. BUT in order to do that, to afford to keep them around, they need to not go out and blow mad money on the Brad Penny's of the world…..
Blan-ton … heavy B
if he gets traded.. I don't think it would be until the deadline next year..
Phillies know it takes 3 legit starters in the postseason.. 4 legit starters is a blessing
so they have Lee, Hamels, Happ… Pedro again?
with the possibility of Drabek up by the end of next year.. I can definitely see Blanton being traded, just not anytime soon
They'll go to battle with the team they have now… probably plus another #5 Starter.. at least someone to battle for the position
and I would think they would want a LHP for the back of the pen since Eyre might be done, and you have NO IDEA what JC Romero might give you next year
I think all their "big moves" are done.. with Polanco
I am looking at the entire payroll, but over the next two seasons. After 2010, Lee ($9 million), Werth ($7 million), and Moyer ($6.5 million) are off the books. That's $22.5 million total. We can hope that they sign Lee and Werth, but the reality is they'd be lucky to sign one of them. (A clown like A.J. Burnett is making over $16 million, so you can just imagine what Lee will be looking for.) After 2011, Howard ($20 million), Hamels ($9.5 million) and Rollins ($8.5 million) are gone ($38 million total). Again, there's no way they'll be able to sign all three (Howard probably ends up in the AL as a DH). So, there's definitely an end to the Phillies long term contracts escalating – and it's coming very soon. Which is why going 3/$30 million for a known quantity in Blanton doesn't seem to be that much of an outrageous idea.
I'm just thinking out loud since I have no clue what type of prospects Blantan would bring. If you look at the Mariners prospects who would Blantan bring in? Saunder? Halman?
Ross Gloud is a nice pick-up. A big improvement over Stairs.
As much as noone wants to hear about Halladay…I think Amaro has something up his sleeve. Especially signing Gloud…I think Gloud is going to be included in some sort of deal that lands us Halladay, almost the same way last season when we signed Paulino. Especially if the Jays are considering moving Wells, he could be a decent trade chip
How much is Gloud costing the Phils?
If I were running the Phils,I would trade Blanton to free up $..and sign Halliday now.Even for one year.
We are probably never going to see a team like we have now again.
So go for it.
After 2011,like Don M said we will have a very different looking team.Odds are not as good as the present one.
When was the last time great players actually wanted to play for the Phils?Not in my lifetime anyway.They do now ,but it wont last.
I am a big fan of Randy Wolf, but holy crap – that is a huge risk for the Brewers. Randy is a gamer and a genuinely nice guy – but has he ever pitched 200 innings in back to back years? Not realy the Phils style, but I hope the Blanton situation is a negotiating tactic – the prices are crazy right now. The front office has more recent hits than misses, so I have phaith they are going in the right direction.
In regards to Victorino, I like his energy and speed, but both get him in trouble as often as they save games. I will cheer for him as long as he is here, but would not pay him big bucks. Spend it on Werth, move him to center, then either bring up Taylor (my choice) or find someone on the scrap heap (Church?) to play right. You could bat Taylor down at 7th or 8th and let him find his groove or move on. He's not going to get much more out of playing in LV.
NEPA, I agree. Since Blantan is gone next year anyway because of Salary they should do what they can to get Halladay. Going to be tough because I would make Drabek and Brown off limits. Keep in mind with Blantan, Lee and Moyer off the books in 2011, Halladay would be affordable at 18-20 for 3 years, IMO.
They didn't say how much Gloud's contract was, but if I had to speculate it would be somewhere in the ballpark of about 3-4 million, 2 years
I like the Gload pickup. They still have a lot of work to do with their pitching, but I have to admit, Ruben has really rebuilt the bench and done a nice job of it.
Im still trying to figure out the Blanton thing….we keep hearing that they are tiptoing aroudn the fringes of Roy Halladay, lurking….which interests me. I wont hold my breath since its still very unlikely. But theyre definitely up to something. Im intrigued. They wouldnt get rid of Blanton unless they upgraded that position.
Do you really think Gload will be with the team this season? I wouldn't count them eggs until they hatch. There is always that possibilty, but I would have to think he would be involved in some sort of trade. Dont forget we still have Mayberry on the bench who seems to be a whole lot more promiseing than Gload.
Um, Gload is a better pinch hitting than like, our whole bench was last year….look at the numbers again.
not to be a d!ck … but can we please call Joe Blanton, BLANTON.. not BLANTAN
same with HAMELS.. not HAMEL
for god knows what reason, its bugging the sh!t out of me.. its one thing for a typo but to see it in every single post is the worst
I really like Big Joe, but if he has to go as long as we up grade that #3 spot I would be fine with that. But I have to agree that we may be better off waiting until next year if the right deal is not in place now.
And if you can afford Doc for 3 years 18-20 million why not just sign Lee to 4 years 20 million.
I think Lucky makes an interesting point — but I do think Gload stays with the Phils for two years because he is and expects to be a bench player, excellent pinch hitter that can play both outfield corner spots and first base. He is proven as a bench player. Mayberry is the one likely to be traded because of the "UP"side. I think we will see another major deal or signing coming up this week.
ESPN's Jerry Crasnick tweets that Correia declined the Padres' final contract offer and has been told he'll be non-tendered by the Saturday deadline.
I really can't believe that Correia will just be let go like that. We should be able to sign him pretty cheap and he is only 29 coming off a pretty good year for the Pads. Would be perfect 5th starter for us.
You don't sign a free-agent bench player for 2 years to turn around and trade him. If another team wanted him that badly they could have just signed him themselves. The notion that they signed Gload to include him in some deal for Halladay,as Lucky suggests, is ludicrous.
For once, someone has the ba!!s to point out all the misspellings…..THANK YOU!!!!!!……
……because it bugs the sh!t out of me as well…
The Gload signing….I like it. Not sure of the numbers, but it seems like he gave the Phils fits last year…..so if that's the case…it's good to have him on our side now…
Correia would be a great addition to the Phils rotation, but I doubt he'll be cheap once he hits the open market. I'd be suprised if there aren't alot of teams offering him several years and a decent pay hike. I'd bet the dodgers are at the top of the list waiting for him.
It is suspicious that the Padres aren't willing to go through arbitration and then trade him. If he went to arbitration he could probably get as high as 3 or 4 mill on the topside given salary, at that price he'd still be pretty easy to move and they'd get something back. It makes me wonder if the padres know something we don't…. but then again they're one of the worst teams in baseball so maybe i'm giving them too much credit.
LEE IS SAID TO BE SEEKING "AT LEAST 5 YEARS" … he wants his $100 Million contract.. and he won't get that from the Phillies
I was thinking Dodgers too for the Correia deal
I can't believe that they got NO TRADE OFFERS for him?? I doubt they had a high asking price.. wonder what happened there
I seriously think Mayberry is a career AAA player … if we can trade him, and get something in return, we should do it
Because everyone must have KNOWN theyd non tender him…thats a cheapo move, wow….
I agree, Mayberry is not a Major League player, at least not a starter…
Now that you pointed it out…That does sound absurd, considering we traded Jaramillo for Paulino last season, and giving Gload a 2 year deal. But That doesn't stop the fact that Mayberry could be the one dealt instead. All I know is something is BIG is about to go down. Weren't we supposed to address our bullpen, and aquire another Pitcher? What was the purpose of another bench player? That signing came out of nowhere, and one has to speculate that it has to link to something bigger
Mayberry would be a throw in though I think in any trade. Actually, is he rule 5 eligible? Some cheap desperate team may try to take a shot at him tomorrow if we leave him unprotected.
"Dont forget we still have Mayberry on the bench who seems to be a whole lot more promiseing than Gload."
I couldn't disagree more. I just don't think Mayberry has anything like the upside of the top prospects in our system, and would not have the PH-ing BA of Gload. It's not like our bench plays much, anyway, I guess.
Happ/Brown/Gose….eh, Id probly do it…Because the Phillies would offer him arbitration to guarantee the two draft picks. You could replace the two prospects with those two draft picks anyway. And youd likely be getting two more when lee leaves anyway, because theyll also offer him arbitration. Halladay seems more likely to sign an extension here than Lee would.
Lee seems hell bent on getting paid the big bucks next offseason.
Happ/Brown and Gose. I don't know because I don't think the Phils can afford Halladay with Blanton on the sqaud. Phils can't afford to lose both. I think they should see what they can get for Blantan. Heck, just ask the Jays who they want as prospects from other teams we think we could get for him.
Just say no to Mayberry! I'd throw Mayberry in any deal for Halladay. Francisco is who I see being a decent chip because he's blocking Taylor.
What's with all the Mayberry hate? The kid did a decent job last year… and he's good defensively. He impressed in a couple of games…
That said, I like signing Gload. The bench looks very promising right now. One more new bullpen arm and we're set. I wanna see Escalona, Mathieson, and especially Bastardo in the pen.
Mayberry can only hit fastballs … which probably made him AWESOME in high school.. decent in college… and below-average in professional baseball
i'm not knocking him, but if you get paid to play baseball, you should be really good at all aspects of the game
which is why i like the Rollins' and Jayson Werth's .. guys who don't excel at any one thing.. but they do everything pretty well
I'm with you man, I think Mayberry was awesome too and came through nicely in a few games. I also think his defense isn't too shabby either. However if the Jays inquire on him in a package deal…You can't be upset with that. We really haven't seen much of Gload besides last season with the Marlins. Mayberry hasn't even played a full season in the majors yet, so its hard to compare "who's better" at this point…If Mayberry sticks around, it wont be long before we find out for sure.
I like Gload as a pinch hitter. I also liked Andy Tracy as a cheap alternative, but Gload is pretty good.
No way the Phils give up Brown for a Halladay rental. It's definitely not worth it.
I would go after Doc Halladay if we could sign him to a three-year deal. I would also give up Happ, Brown and Gose. Winning now is important and I am saying this because I am old, sick and dumb and want another ring before I croak. There is no time like the present. We should sign Lee, as well, to a three-year deal.
Looks like the Mariners or Rangers will land Harden for about 7.5 million. I don't see any interest in Blanton. Anyone hearing anything? If Blanton can't be traded forget about Halladay.
@ (first reply)GWFightinsFan:
I agree. Time to run with the big dogs!
Just read that the Phils are interested in Jason Marquis. Really?! WHY?!
Jesus: I think the Phillies are interested in anyone and everyone that can throw or field. It's just the way it is. If its true, I'm not a Marquis fan, although he is a decent #5. However, I'm sure he'll command a ridiculous amount just like everyone else.
Ben Sheets for $12 million anyone???
Going after Halladay isnt a bad idea, but I would say giving up Happ to get him would be insanity. Everyone wants to get rid of Happ before his full sophmore season because of Kyle Kendrick. It seems the majority of fans think because Kyle Kendrick pitches poorly in his 2nd season after a good rookie season that Happ will do the same. Happ has proven himeself, keep him, we have plenty of other "prospects" that the Jays would take without taking away from the current team, and probably wouldnt hurt the farm system all that much seeing the depth the Phillies have in the Farm system.
I wouldn't mind Marquis at 5mill but I would imagine he wants close to the 9.8mill he made last year. I really want the Phils to go after Kevin Correia. I would think he would cost under 3mill and is only 29. I know he pitched at Petco field but his home/away splits are pretty close.
Don: Thing with Mayberry is, I doubt that many on here saying he's no good have even watched him play more than 20 games.
All I can say, is that in the 3-5 games I saw him play, he did some pretty good and interesting things. It's not like he's condemned to just hitting fastballs for the rest of his pro life… he should be able to make some adjustments along the way.
There is absolutely, positively, NO way Cliff Lee or Halladay signs a 3 year deal. No shot. Those guys are aiming for 7 year deals but may have to settle for 6 years.
No one is trading for Ross Gload. If anyone else wanted Gload, they would have signed him yesterday. He is the Phillies left-handed pinch hitter.
No one is trading a top prospect for a Halladay rental. Giving up 7 years of Dom Brown is not worth 7 months of Roy Halladay. Imagine if the Phillies traded Ryan Howard for a Mark Mulder rental a few years back. How would that have looked now?
Dom Brown is a stud and he will be a stud in a Phillies uniform. If the Phillies weren't willing to trade him for a year and a half of Halladay, why would they trade him for a year of Halladay?
I think the Phils should place Drabek and Brown off-limits, but make everyone else in the farm system, along with Blanton, available for a trade. I really think that as time goes on, the Jays will get more and more desperate to unload Halladay, and something along the lines of Blanton, Taylor and Gose might get it done. Then, i'd agree, its probably only feasible to sign either Lee or Halladay to an extension, and let the other one walk, and take the draft picks as compensation to replace the young talent you gave up in order to get them.
Wow, that's an awful lot to give up. Angels would be foolish to do that, and it would make the Jays come out smelling like roses if they could pull it off
I agree, that's a lot for the Angels to give up. Jays should pounce on that offer.
I like how every body knows what these guys will ask for NEXT year, who knows, maybe they have an off year, I am not saying they will but both Doc, and Lee may surprise us all at the end of next year. And unless they want to go play in NY no team is going to give a pitcher 6 or 7 years, I do not see it happening unless it is the Yankees, and even in NY there is a limit.
Maybe someone else will, but it is crazy to give a 31 32 or 33 year old pitcher 7 year deal. If Lee has a good year I do not know why you would not offer him 5 years 100 million, or Halladay 4 or 5 years for 85-100 million, if you think they will be dominant for that long.
But I do not see giving up the farm for 1 year, if you can get Doc to agree to 3 4 or 5 years before the trade then you can give up a few more prospects.
Well, I never really expected us to land the Doc anyway…I just really didn't want the Yankees to have him. As long as he goes to the Angels or even the BoSox, I won't feel as bad about it.
Oh well….at least the Cubs or Dodgers didnt get him
They could at least land Marquis to add rotation depth, and Lyon to bolster the bullpen/
The Jays would need to be stoned not to accept that immediately although I have a tough time believing the Angels would give up that much for someone they can sign for a draft pick in one year.
All they have to do is upgrade the back end of the bullpen. With an average closer last year they would have won at least 100 games and run away with the N.L. East. Halladay would have cost too much in both prospects and salary
THey need to accept that deal…
Id be ok with keeping Blanton and adding Marquis and Lyon, and trying to internally fill the rest of the bullpen. Maybe resign Park.
The Angels must really be hard up for Halladay, if they are willing to give up so much for him. But even with them having Doc, they still would need at least one other top notch pitcher if they hope to beat the Yankees. Now, if they can resign Lackey as well…
damn it, the astros got Lyon. I thought hed be a great fit here. I want NO part of Rodney…just resign Park. try to grab another reliever. damn it.
I'll tell you this….If the Jays will take any prospects besides Taylor and Drabek, Than Amaro needs to pull this trigger!! And pull it now!!
You hear that Amaro?? Pull that shit!
Lucky, I agree except for I think it should be Brown that's off limits instead of Taylor
Yea, thats what I meant to say GW. Brain freeze I guess? The Angels aint playing games right now, they want Doc bad!! Like I said if Amaro can leave Drabek and Brown out the deal than he BETTER push them papers across the desk. We'll worry about 2011 later, and who we gave up later to require him. One thing is for sure…You cant miss who you never seen (meaning who we give up), right? Plus we would get picks if Halladay would sign elsewhere after 2011. This should be a no brainer here! Amaro would regret this shit later if it ends up Phils VS Angels in the WS next season…OR Yankees, OR Boston for that matter.
I'm still skeptical it's going to happen, but I have no major problem with sending Happ and Taylor in the deal. I'm with Lucky, if we can do it and be smart about it, then go for it. Drabek is obviously off limits, and Domonic Brown should be, too. I don't wanna deal Taylor but if it means a much better shot at 3 straight pennants and 2 World Series titles in 3 years, I can't complain. The NL East will be VERY competitive this season, but if we get Doc, we'll put ourselves even further ahead of the rest of the pack.
Please let me know when someone other than Ken Rosenthal reports this. He can't report accurately on the last time he took a dump. The Phillies would never trade Happ in that deal ever, especially if you believe Blanton must go to free up payroll. Thats not to say I don't think they shouldn't.
The Dipsy
An Angels team with both Lackey and Halladay would be rather scary for the Phillies, unless the Phils can manage to land another top notch starter, and knowing RAJ, he could probably find somebody decent guy whom none of us have even thought of.
From what I've read, Halladay is looking for 3 more years, unlike Lee, who is looking for a Santana/CC type deal. Stark states Phils are his first choice (lives near Clearwater, a winning team), and I would hope if we are giving anything up, would require a 24 hr negotiating window for an extension.
Lee/Halladay/Hamels + a combination of Moyer, Kendrick, Pedro, and any other scrub with a possible July call up of Drabek is a pretty damn good rotation for the regular season, and an incredible post season staff. Roy and Lee also give the bullpen 2 days off – they are going 8 each time. We could make do with Madsen, Lidge,…..
IF….. you can get Halladay to sign an extension, pull the trigger as long as it doesn't include Drabek. No extension, no deal.
To the spelling Nazis – it's the comment section of a sports blog, not 4th grade with Sister Helen. Lighten up. With the exception of Roy vs Matt, it doesn't cause confusion.
Is this actually a serious thing with Halladay? I just woke up.
The Dipsy
hahaha Dipsy that was kinda classic…I just woke up.
I do think it is very real and I do think Blanton being on the market is a big sign of that. I know he is not going to be a cheap third starter but he is a very reliable third starter. Why else would you trade him other than because you need the cash for a bigger fish?
Don't forget the Jays did give teams the ability to negotiate an extension with Halladay before a trade happens. Amaro may have come to the realization that many of us did a while ago and that Halladay would be easier to extend than Lee.
However here is my question though, or rather my reservation. You add Halladay which is great but at the cost of losing a very good 3rd starter and a cheap 3/4 starter in Happ. So now going into the season you might have a sick 1-2-3 but the back end of your rotation is what? Kendrick and Moyer? They have pretty much said Drabek will not appear in the majors until the end of next season, possibly as a call up or if their rotation is destroyed with injuries. I think I'd rather stick with Happ and Blanton. Especially since Blanton will be gone after next year anyway and Happ will still be cheap for a few more years. But if Amaro can get Halladay for Happ, Brown, someone else and you get rid of Blanton is that too much?
I agree Ed. And don't forget that we have ARB coming up with Shane and others. IF you are going to sign Halladay for the "big run", you should probably trade Drabek, Blanton, and keep Happ. At this point, I regard Happ as more valuable than Drabek. He's proved it.
The Dipsy
I do NOT want to give up Blanton and Happ for Halladay. What if Cole Hamels doesn't "come back" this season? Then you have a rotation of Lee and Halladay, basically. I DO agree with the first poster on these replies, though. It's time for the Phillies to start acting and paying like a World Champion team instead of a poor relation. If we lose Lee after this season, or lose Ryan Howard at any point in the near future, it's a crime. Everyone knows that they have the money. They'll never be the Yankees, but the more they win, the more they'll make. My understanding is that, even with the minor increase in ticket prices, they have almost sold out every game already for the 2010 season.
I agree Dipsy. I am always cautious of trading away proven talent over the unproven guy waiting in the wings. The article that Rosenthal wrote very clearly stated that just getting rid of Blanton would only clear about half ot he salary that Halladay will cost the team next year. Blanton will make approx 7 mil and Halladay makes 15.75, so another deal or two might have to be made. Now ask yourself, anyone, who on the Phillies would command enough salary to allow the Phillies to get Halladay without going over a budget? My best guess, one of your starting OF's. Ibanez or Werth. Knowing all of that, is Halladay really worth all of that?
There is no way that Happ is more valuable than Drabek. That's like saying in 2004 that Placido Polanco is more valuable than Chase Utley, since he's proven it.
Drabek has a celing of a #2 starter whereas Happ is more of a #5 who got incredibly fortunate last year.
I wouldn't trade Taylor, Brown or Drabek for Halladay.
Oh Griffin, hindsight is a wonderful thing is it not? In 2004 at the time Polanco was more valuable than Utley. The organization believed Utley was going to be a better player but to say they knew for sure is impossible. You never know for sure. Now in 2009 it is a no brainer, Utley is better than Polanco. Period. But you can't tell me that you know for sure that Drabek will be better than Happ. It is a possibility, maybe a better than not possibility but you don't know that. Look at Gavin Floyd or even Brett Myers, both were thought to be future aces and neither lived up even close to that.
I think the phrase the devil you know over the devil you don't. Use what you know over what you don't.
I don't disagree that Happ over performed last year, no question. But at this point, you know what Happ will give you, you don't know what Drabek is or can become.
Ed R., I agree that we don't know for sure what Drabek will do. I would argue that we don't know for sure what Happ will do in the future as well. But I would take the future of Drabek (with the possibility that he may not amount to anything) over the future of Happ, who has a much lower ceiling.
Also, Chase Utley was a first round pick and there was little doubt he would be a very good player. He turned into a great player which is something that a merely good Polanco in his prime had no chance of becoming.
Blanton gets traded elsewhere maybe we get a closer type or our setup bullpen help for him…. mlbtraderumors has the possibility of hamels for doc even up!!!!!Although I doubt it … I wouldn't mind the trade of an outfielder we have studs in the minors that need to come up remember what happened to howard …. all in all these are great problems to have 5 years ago could you have believed we would be talking about the possibility of a rotation with 3 #1s in it i mean ninties braves with high ninties fastballs and we are talking to smoltz to gotta love it…. its hard to type!!!!! i'm excited
Woah woah woah, we're calling Happ "proven talent" based on one year? If that's the case, then wasn't Kyle Kendrick "proven talent" after his rookie year too? Look at all the numbers, Happ was very lucky last year and isn't as good as he looked, much like Hamels isn't as bad as his stats showed last year. Things have a way of evening out.
And NO NO NO on trading Drabek and keeping Happ. No offense, but I'm certainly glad you're not the GM.
I never said I would trade Drabek over Happ, I just said I am cautious when it comes to trading away proven talent, as in, I know what Happ is going to give me. 10-15 wins a year, 4.00 era. Over a guy who I have no idea what he can do. He could be an ace, he could be a flop. That is what every GM has to weight, what you know vs what you don't.
The chances of Happ's ERA being around 4 or lower next year are not very high.
I don't know why you're banking on 10-15 wins and a 4.00 era from Happ. One season is a small sample size. I agree with Griffin.
Anyway, I'm off to take a test…hopefully when I come back home, I get to see the news that the Phillies acquired Doc for Jamie Moyer and 3 dozen soft pretzels…
Amaro just said of acquiring Halladay "I don't think there's any likeliness. None."
Do we believe this?
Happ has pitched for TWO years now… and he's been very good BOTH years.
Why am I banking on 10-14 wins from Happ?
Probably because Moyer had 12 wins last year with an era of 4.94.
With an offense like the Phillies any starter should be able to win 10-14 games.
I agree that one season is a small sample size and Happ definitely got lucky last year but his era of 2.93 was actually brought up at the end of the year because he was hurt.
I am not saying Happ is an ace or anything because he isn't but he is pretty good. He is a decent 3rd starter at the most and a solid back end starter for sure.
I could easily see Happ having an era around 4.25 or so.
The problem here is that the Phillies want to move Blanton (and need to move him if they get Halladay)
but he holds no value to the Blue Jays since he becomes a Free Agent next year.
so if we give them Happ, Blanton, and Taylor … its a lot..
but we would keep Domonic Brown, and Kyle Drabek.. which is what we need to do.
If we could give them Happ and Taylor.. and trade Blanton somewhere else, that would be ideal … Blanton to another playoff contender for their #5 pitcher who makes less money?? but that is almost impossible to do because contending-teams are very reluctant to trade between them
Happ, Taylor, and ??? to Toronto for Roy Halladay
BLanton and Anothony Gose to Pittsburgh for Zach Duke
gotta be creative here Ruben.. make the move without sacraificing our future
Acting and paying like a World Champion? They have a player payroll of $140 million, higher than all but a few others. No consideration is given, either, to costs for scouting, office workers, advertising, janitors, equipment, etc. There are limits, even if the stadium sells out all year, and the Phils don't have the income of the Yanks or Sox. They've increased their budget for years running now, which other teams have not. Whoever posts comments complaining of the team not spending enough are living in some kind of financial paradise. They haven't seen the books and should just shut up.
And as to spelling: I too get sick of reading misspelled player names. I can forgive other errors, but at least have the courtesy as Phils fans to get the players' names right. These may be only comments on a blog, but these are YOUR players. Treat them with some respect.
When I saw the reports that in the middle of the night.. rumors involving the Phillies were coming through.. it meant that the Phillies were trying to slip this past the media. I think its definitely legit. and Ruben is playing his cards close to his chest, like he should.. and always does
These guys don't make things up
Rosenthal, Stark, etc …. they have legit knowledge behind their "rumors"
Blanton will not be included in the Halladay deal if it happens. Blanton most likely would be traded after a Halladay deal was completed. Not before. It's like dominoes.
I think RAJ will make the right call here, whatever it is. I don't think he'll mortgage the team's future. That being said, I hope Happ stays no matter what.
I would love to see the Phils get Halladay, if it would "only" cost Happ and one of Taylor or Brown and a throw in. I figure we would trade Blanton for a mid tier prospect and hopefully sign Kevin Correia when the Pads non-tender him Saturday night. I realize we don't have limitless budget but this is going all in for one year. We would have to be ok with increasing the payroll to about 150million or so. The Phils will have some financial flexibility after this season with quite a bit of money coming off the books and cheap replacements coming up. Taylor/Brown for Werth, and Drabek for Moyer also Eaton and Jenkins come off the books after this season. We should have the flexibility to make this move. Even with the raises that will be due to Ruiz and Shane next year assuming neither sign a long term deal.
Apparently Amaro said that Ed Wade "stole" Brandon Lyon from them. Kinda funny.
everyone saying that we should be fine with uping the payroll to $150 Million..
the players that we would lose after this season.. Lee and Blanton.. make a combined $16 M .. Werth will make $7..
and re-signing Werth will cost $8-10 M per year..
Utley and Howard.. and Hamels.. and Lidge.. and Victorino… all these guys will be making double-digit MILLIONS
its easier said than done to just increase payroll for a year.. because you have to maintain salaries of all the players you want to keep …. and the reason we win is because of our current core.. which is made up of players that we want to keep … and you have to keep paying them …
basically we can't turn into a $200 Million dollar team.. and we're closer than you think to flirting with that type of number
look how fast the payroll went from $100 M -to- $140 M .. probably just a span of 4-5 years
we stole Lidge from Ed Wade .. so we'll call it even
I agree Don. I just found it funny.
Don M, chances are we won't sign Werth and he will be replaced with Brown/Taylor so his 7mill turns into 400k, Moyer comes off and so does his 6.5mill and is replaced with Drabek at 400k, Eaton and Jenkins come off the books for a total of 1.75 mill, Romero is a FA after this year at 4.25mill. 150 mill is a huge difference than 200 mill. I don't see why the Phils can't go for it this year and go a little above budget. You are talking about a 7% increase in budget. They increased ticket prices this year and also advertisement rates and I'm sure if they win the WS this year they could increase ad rates even more. I'm sure they have increased their rates by more than 7%. I'm not saying be reckless with the budget but 150 million is reasonable in the position they are in.
If the Phis are able to get Halladay for Happ and Michael Taylor, and a low level prospect I don see an issue with that. This would force them to either sign another veteran like Pedro or Smoltz if Blanton is moved too.
The other thought is use Kendrick or even Drabek. We are in a win now scenario, which means you pull out all stops!
I would hate to see Werth not resigned cause we lose Ibanez the following year.
Well if you aren't going to resign Werth … you don't need Halladay, because you won't be winning.
Werth is protection for Ryan Howard … without that, Howard is useless
I'm just scared of the scenario where we trade Happ and Brown for Halladay..
then we don't resign Lee, Werth, we don't resign Howard… Ibanez..
and you're left with a team of Utley and no supporting cast.. Hamels and Drabek as your only pitching..
its awesome to win.. but considering we just won the World Series.. I'd like to see us stay competitive, watch great baseball, with a chance to win the World Series any/every year over the next 5 years
then for us to go "ALL-IN" right now.. win again, and then suck for a decade
I like this constant winning baseball .. world series title or not
"ESPN.com's Jayson Stark hears that the Phillies do indeed have interest in Marquis."
I think the plan to combat the escalating salaries of Utley, Howard, Rollins and Hamels is to let Werth and Victorino sign elsewhere and replace them with Taylor and Dom Brown who would make league minimum.
Having Drabek in your rotation making the league minimum is much better than shelling out $9 mil a year for a Jason Marquis-type.
Don I agree with what you are saying especially since the last time we went to the WS before that there was a good decade of losing.
But, I do trust our management now vs then. I think they have a plan, the scouting is better, and the talent is great. We need to cut ties with Howard, Werth when the moment is perfect. That will be tough to judge and not overpay.
I don't like giving up Happ and then having to trade Blanton. Halladay, Lee, Hamels would be awesome for the playoffs, but who would 4 and 5 be? Scary, IMO.
No to Marquis, yes to Smoltz with an incentive laiden contract.
I'd bring back Pedro before going after Marquis. SMoltz would be worth giving a shot. He could compete for the 5th spot if not go into the pen. And the best part is, he is willing to do it. And he can close.
I think that Amaro "has" to unload Blanton before he goes any further with this Halladay trade. It seems like the Jays are patiently waiting in our corner…I mean if they weren't than why didn't they jump at the Angels offer by now? I don't like the idea of giving up Happ either, but to hell with it….Give them Happ, Mayberry, and Gose..Thats solid enough to make this happen
My idea for awhile should be to trade victorino,happ,Gose, and maybe another pitcher to the jays. Moving werth to center bringing up taylor to play right. moving victorino would allow you some payroll flexibility to resign werth with Ibanez coming of in 11′. after the 10′ season is over we may want to look into trading howard to someone for a number of higher prospects hopefully someone like the rangers. small market team but maybe they would look to win in 11. freeing up that 20 mill for howard would allow us to atleast sign either halladay or lee maybe both. If not we get 2 draft picks that i would trust this brain trust to use on decent players to help.
Thats the dumbest shit I ever heard…Trade VIC (one of the best centerfielders in NL) for a 1 year rental for Halladay? What are you on crack? And get NOTHING for Victorino? Man, thank God you aint the GM
i never thought id be sick of hearing about this–the best pitcher in the game possibly comin to the phils. but its gettin old.
here's my take–halladay, at what 33-34 by start of 2010?, im sure is looking for a team that has BOTH winning potential (phils) and the ability to sign him 4 years min (phils). i heavily doubt he wants all this media frenzy around him AGAIN one year from now when he would be a free agent.
he wants to get a good contract, be in a position to compete annually, and have multi years and get paid. i think the phils have the financial ability to do this deal with halladay, but then cliff lee will test out free agency. soo…i think it could pan out kinda backwards. we all love cliff lee now in philly, but he CAN and WILL get a 5 year heavy contract from NYY or BOS if/when he tests out free agency.
i heavily doubt there will be enough money for both of em…minimum 40mil/year in 2 pitchers? there is already barely enough money for werth contract, he will probably be traded. should we be saving some money for ryan howard contract extention? definitely yes
comes down to prospects. will ruben give them up? at what cost is the TOR ace going to sign a multiyear deal? halladay is a proven competitor and dominant pitcher in the game. prospects are NOT proven MLB players and odds are against them to become big impactful players. but they offer the cheaper alternatives to otherwise highly-paid position players. what to do?? i seriously cant decide…theres been so much talk i dont even know what to think anymore
i kinda want roy because im afraid cliff lee wont sign. at least with roy you know that you are getting him multiyears. phils gonna nail down one of these aces.
No Victorino or no Werth = no win. THey are crucial to the lineup. Taylor may be great and hit for power and eventually replace Howard as the cleanup hitters, but thats years away to when youre actually able to trust him in that role.
In regards to all of this talk about needing to dump salary to make room for Halladay, perhaps the Phils know something about Jamie Moyer that we don't??
Yeah, they know that theyre stuck with his salary. Even if he retires, theyll have to pay him off to go away.
Totally agree with you, Don M.–I'd much rather be good for the long term than give up everything and be lousy for a decade–again!! I've lived through too many horrible baseball seasons. That's what turned this city from a baseball into a football town. I'm 54 now and I want to have a perennially good baseball team to enjoy for a while, after all the misery. These last 3 seasons have been heaven! Don't take that away from us. All it would take would be one injury to kill the one chance that you've mortgaged your future for. And, by the way…..we're still paying Eaton? Doesn't that prove my point? One wrong move that costs a lot of money, and it's still having repercussions after all these years.
I don't see the Phils re-signing Werth when you have two of the top prospects in baseball ready to fill in after this year. It just doesn't make fiscal sense to sign Werth for what would be a pretty big contract. Also, it seems like Halladay is looking for "only" a 3yr extension which should be doable.
Yes, but you cant lose both Werth and Victorino in one offseason and EXPECT Brown and Taylor to be as good as two VETERAN ALL STAR PLAYERS in their first seasons in the big leagues. ITs just not realistic.
Im 26 … and I can count on one hand how many GOOD Phillies seasons I've witnessed… with 4 of them coming in the past 4 years
the other 1993 ..
I never said we were going to lose Shane. I expect us to sign Shane to a deal this year rather than go year to year with him in Arb. I could see us giving him a 4yr deal and tying him up here. We would be replacing Werth next season and then Ibanez the season following. I think that is the way you stay good for a long period of time is not letting emotions get in the way of business decisions.
Maybe Moyer is more hurt then they're letting on? And if he's forced to retire as a result, then his salary comes off the books if I remember correctly.
The Phillies are making money hand over fist. They sold out almost all their games and they just increased tickets prices for next year along with parking and advertising fees. So, no one wants to hear that the Phillies can't afford to sign players…especially not the fans. I'm not saying they can afford to be the Yankees, but for heaven's sake, I'm 39 years old and I've watched them play it cheap for most of my life. If anything, they owe us for all the years they penny pinched as if they were a small market team! Sign Lee to a long term deal and get some bullpen help…not a 43 year old John Smoltz.
I think Taylor's career high for HR's in a season is like 20 ??
he MIGHT be a good player.. so far he's hit for a high average, with pretty decent power ..
but Brown (who still has lots of growing to do) is the higher rated prospect, and the one that looks like he could be an All-Star.
Bill Conlin is a huge fan of Taylor.. but I hate Conlin so maybe that makes me sour on Taylor too??
Yes, Don M., I remember 1993, too. What a cast of characters that was, and what a thrill to just have them come out of the blue like that. But it was a long miserable time between 1983 and 1993, and then from 1994 to 2006. I don't want to be the first pro team to lose 20,000 games! Let's keep things good for the long haul and let the Mutts pile up losses for a while.
Amen, RDavis!!!!!
Don M is right about Taylor. Even though he's a big dude, he's not going to hit for a lot of power. Brown is a stud.
Cliff Lee has TWO good years under his belt .. you ready to pay him $100-120 Million ???
I'm not
I don't think trying to keep Werth or Victorino is an emotional thing.. you look at the production these guys have.. and the fact that WITH them, you became the first team in almost 3 decades to win back-to-back NL TITLES
you need Werth because otherwise Howard won't get any pitches to hit.. Werth is the only RH power you have..
Phillies tickets are a relative bargain compared to a lot of other teams. They have a top 7 payroll and are increasing it annually.
Like I have been saying I do not see the need to trade for Doc unless you can have a deal in place for more then next year. You do not trade Brown and Taylor for a one year player. Especially with the prospect of losing Wreth and or Vic in year, and Raul will only start two more years Max. So unless you have something else in mind to fill those spots after 2011 then you do not trade away you two best everyday prospects to get 1 year of anyone
What I've read about Taylor is very impressive… and what I get from that is that he could be the No.1 prospect in several other organizations…
Taylor is definitely a top 25 prospect in all of baseball. He may only hit 20 HR a year but he'll still be a very good all around player.
I agree with keeping Werth…..at whatever cost….and it's not emotional for me….even if he IS one of my favorite players….it just makes basic sense..
He's crucial to this lineup and giving him 8-10 mil….for what he's done….and will probably continue doing for awhile….is really not that big of a deal…
If we are going to spend all that talent and money on a 34-year-old stud like Halladay, why not try to get a 27-year-old stud like Justin Verlander from the Tigers ??? Age matters in sports.
Considering a guy like Polanco is getting $6 mil a year, a younger, better Jayson Werth should get much more than $8 mil a year.
Since day one, I have been incapable of letting go of the idea that we could potentially have Cliff Lee, Roy Halladay and Cole Hamels. I would be stunned if it went down but I do think that he has the cahones to do it and we're one of the few teams that has the money and prospects outside of the ALE to do it.
Here's how this happens – we trade Blanton for a prospect or two… someone on Toronto's wish list… we turn around and trade that prospect plus Happ and another prospect for Halladay. We upgrade the top of our rotation and worry about who fills at the bottom later. Maybe it doesn't have to be that complicated… I don't think that they'll move Hamels unless it means that they can keep Happ and Blanton. This is a one year deal… we have plenty of prospects.
Happ came up in 08 and pitched pretty well, just not enough innings, so 09 was his rookie season, but he pithced in some big games and came up big. He was not lucky last year, he pitched really well and if not for his injury would have been rookie of the year. They need to keep him and put him in th rotation permenatly for a full year, stop screwing around with moving form the pen to starter. Also all you worried about pen arms, what about just putting Bastardo out there and Kendrick for long relief especially if Moyer retires. Lee, Hamels, Blanton, Happ, and any fifth starter would be a nice rotation.
All you people are asking how you can expect Happ to pitch as well as he did last year, why do you think he will pitch that much worse
Pedro Feliz signs a 1 year deal for $4.5 mil with the Astros. I really wish the Phils didn't add that 3rd year for Polanco.
Although Polanco for $6 mil is much better value than Feliz for $4.5
I just saw that Griff… I'm glad that I'm not the only one who is having a little buyer's remorse. Look at my old posts… I've been very critical of that signing and this kind of puts it in perspective. Same age, we know that Feliz can play defense and knock in runs, Polanco is a better contact hitter… is that worth two extra years and $2 million more per year? Should have brought back Feliz…
Yeah, the extra $1.5 is one thing, but the two extra years is another. That third year from Polanco could be a disaster.
Twitter Nation is abuzz right now that Zolecki said on WIP the Phillies have a 75% chance of landing Halladay TODAY
CZ, you serious? I hope Dom Brown is staying. I hope it's Happ and Taylor, although I actually hope Halladay goes to the Angels.
OMG. Hell's about to break loose.
I don't think this Halladay talk is as serious as anyone else does. My guess is that it is first a ploy to find out where Lee is really thinking, dollar and year-wise to extend him – to get a "bottom line" type of counteroffer out of him, as compared to Halladay.
Holly SH&^%. 75% chance. That would be sweet. No doubt that Philly is Halladay's #1 choice so he may be stearing things our way.
Backtrack that to 35% chance by Xmas…oh well
"Twitter Nation is abuzz right now that Zolecki said on WIP the Phillies have a 75% chance of landing Halladay TODAY"
I just heard him on WIP within the last hour or so at lunch, and I thought he said a 35% chance of the Phils landing Halladay, and I didn't get "today" out of the interview; I got more like "this won't drag on through the winter" talk.
Polanco is a "BASEBALL PLAYER"
he can play 3 infield spots.. and could probably play some LF too.. he'll be a great fit with this team, and is defiinitely worth the extra money of Pedro Feliz
he's a Gold Glove defender.. which means he's very solid, and shouldn't have too much trouble with 3b ..
These rumors are driving me up a wall … Amaro says 0%… Zolecki says 75% .. and somewhere in the middle lies the truth
Polanco is a "baseball player" that will be playing 3B, not his normal position, this year.
Zolecki on his tweeter:
"Ha, I never said that. I said maybe a 35 percent chance."
I don't see the benefit in giving Werth a 3-4yr deal at probably at least 10-12mill per. Taylor would slide right into Werth's spot. Taylor did only hit 20hr's but it was in only a little over 400 ab's and his OPS is north of .900. Also, Werth never hit more than 20hr's in the minor's also. I think Taylor can do the things that Werth can do, maybe not as well right now but to keep Werth just doesn't make sense to me. I think Taylor at 400k makes much more sense than Werth at 10-12mill.
And will still be better overall than Feliz
Polanco is 5.5 this year including the bonus and 5.25 in 2011. He gets more expensive in 2012 @6.25, but the ecocomy should be better and prices increasing.
agree, Polanco is better than Feliz. I just hope that third year doesn't look silly.
Is it just me, or does it seem like Ed Wade does everything possible to piss of the Phillies or to gain spite. He's like the ultimate pencil-neck turd
Is it just me, or does it seem like Ed Wade does everything possible to piss off the Phillies or to gain spite. He's like the ultimate pencil-neck turd
As much as everyone doesn't think this deal will go through…I totally think its going to happen. I just hope everyone is prepared for this to take place…Halladay "wants" to play in Philadelphia, and the Jays "want" our prospects. It's a win-win situation in every angle you look at it. The Jays are just buying us time to move Blanton…I can see this taking place by tomorrow the latest.
Zo is saying that he did not mention any percentage…
If the Phils are able to land Halladay and it seems like that is his prefered destination (wants to train on the W. Coast of FL and gives him the best chance to get to the WS) that gives us a rotation of Halladay, Lee and Hamels. That is really sick. Look some of you say he isn't worth it because of his age. Lee and Halladay are the same age.
Lee/Halladay gives us Schilling/Johnson combination that will almost guarantee us in the WS for the 3rd year in a row. With our history he would be worth losing Happ and Victorino if the Jays want him.
We are not guaranteed anything, especially after 2011 when alot of our core will be eligible to leave.
Phils need to get it done and Halladay wants to be here. I also think the Polanco signing over Beltre sets up Victorino leaving. They are the same type players offensively and neither fits in the 7th hole.
so what is the actual story and quotes from ZOLECKI on WIP
never mentioned a %.. or said it would happen today ???
I think Lee is like 3 years younger than Halladay …
Which is why you could sign Halladay for 3 years.. but Lee wants AT LEAST 5
Halladay doesn't want a contract to pitch until he's 41 years old
He did mention 35%, but seemed a little equivocal on it. He definitely did not say today – but said he may be wrong, but does not think it will drag into January/February.
Lee is only 1yr younger than Halladay.
Michael Taylor is a good player….with LOTS of potential…..but….PLEASE…he's not gonna just "slide right into Werth's spot."
Second..let's all just cool off and wait and see what happens with this Halladay thing before we start jumping all over the place…
And third….can those that are having "buyer's remorse" over the Polanco signing please give the guy a chance??!!?? He's a VERY talented player….and a GREAT fit for this team….right now…
Halladay will turn 33 on May 14th ..
Lee won't turn 32 until August 2009..
I thought Halladay was going to be 34.. maybe because he's been in the majors longer.. whatever the reason, multiple sources have said before that he will be seeking a 3-4 year deal
Chuck, how can you justify paying Werth 10-12 million/yr when you have Taylor/Brown waiting? It just makes absolutely no sense. Are we just going to let Brown/Taylor wait in the minors like we did with Utley and Howard? I understand that Werth is a good player but you have to bring up your top prospects at some point. Taylor is 24 now and will be 25 prior to 2011 season. At want point do we bring up our prospects? Werth at 10-12mill or Taylor at 400K? I like Werth a lot but at some point you have to replace your vets with younger players.
and looking at their career innings totals…
Halladay has pitched about 800 more.. or about 4 seasons more experience
Then WTF was "CZ" telling people 75% chance it happens TODAY for????
come on people.. if you're posting stuff, at least make them legit
Brown is young enough, and inexperience enough that he wouldn't be ready until the second half of NEXT season anyway.. which is about the time that Ibanez could be shipped out in a trade
Taylor will seemingly be ready for the majors this year.. but that doesn't mean he'll be close to matching the production of Werth or Ibanez
which is why Taylor is the one the Phillies are more interested in trading
Werth is probably the 3rd most important player in our lineup.. after Utley and Howard
you can't get rid of him just because he makes a lot of money.. IF money is the concern, you move Ibanez sooner, and pay Werth with that
Agreed Jesus, Taylor in 2011 at 400K will take over for Werth and the savings will be used to pay salary increases for the vets who are under contract.
Jayson Werth is a PROVEN right-handed power threat….that has JUST come into his own….and as Don has pointed out….is MAJOR protection for Ryan Howard in the line-up…
Without him you can pretty much forget about all this Halladay talk…because we're probably not gonna win anyway…
If you're gonna ove anybody from the current line-up….then move Victorino….Werth can play center….and don't forget that Ibanez' last year as a Phillie is next year….so it's not like Brown and Taylor are just going to be languishing in the minors.
Its going to take Taylor 2-3 years to be good enough to protect Howard in the lineup .. and by that time, Howard will be gone since the Phillies won't be the team that is willing to pay him $25 Million for 5-6 years
Werth is a must keep. He's our right handed Power and heck of a fielder to boot. I'd get rid of Ibanez before Werth.
We aren't getting rid of Werth THIS year. You would be looking at over 45million tied up in 2011 between Utley, Howard and Werth and that's only at Werth at 10mill which chances are he will get much more than that. That's like saying we should have kept Thome here because he was proven. You build a succesful farm system for this exact moment. You pay for positions you need and fill the positions you can with prospects. You don't pay a Werth 10-12mill when you have a Taylor waiting.
Feliz signs for 4.5 mil, a 1 year deal with the Astros.
Randy Wolf is going to Milwaukee for 3 years at 30 mil? Is everyone nuts?
Wolf has 10 big league seasons experience. He has started 30 or more games (that seems to be the bench mark for consistency) in 5 of those 10 years. He won 16 games back in 04, pitching for the Phils but his average win total per year is just 10 –
This is nuts, totally nuts.
Taylor and Werth will BOTH be in this line-up before too long…..so the argument is a non-issue.
And that's a bad example with Thome….he was an older player …..who was basically a DH/1B…..not the defensive player that Werth is in the line-up…..and Werth is right-handed…..which in this line-up is valuable….since he's the only legitimate RH power source we have..
Yes you pay Jayson what he is worth, 10 million or so, cause Vic will be gone and Raul will be out of here after 2011, you pay jayson, maybe trade vic this year or next and have an outfield of Wreth, Taylor, Brown.
I feel Jayson wants to play here, the phillies gave him his shot to be great and an everyday player, that might be worth something during negotiations, a little home town discount. I also think the Phillies will pay Howard 25 million a year if they keep winning.
You also have Ben Fransisco as a 4th outfielder, so if you tade Vic for Doc(not saying I would) you would be able to platoon Taylor and Ben or play Ben until Taylor is ready. The thing you have in this outfield is options, but an aging Raul for the next 2 years you need someone to fill that spot.
As I said all along with Halladay, if they can sign him to extension, I see maybe over paying with prospects to get him, but you do not sell the farm for 1 year
Chuck, the point is we have someone to play that position just like we did with Howard. You don't pay someone to play a position when you have someone waiting in the wings. Remember we had to pay a portion of Thome's salary in order to get rid of him. Did you want us to keep Rowand to because he was good defensively and was a proven player? Smart teams don't do that. Taylor will be 25 at the end of next season and would have been in AAA 1.5 yrs. You have to believe that your prospects can produce. That's how you continue to win, you can't sign a 32yr old player to a big deal when you have a 25yr old top prospect at the same position.
Why would a team with an incredible chance to return to the World Series yet again trade any one of their All-Star outfielders?
Silliest trade proposals so far:
1 – Werth for Bobby Jenks (oldie but a goodie)
2 – Blanton for Sherrill
2 – Victorino and Happ for Halladay
3 – Werth and Drabek for Halladay
4 – Hamels and Brown for Halladay
Werth isn't getting traded at all. He's just getting replaced after 2010 with a younger and cheaper (albeit inferior) option while money is being allocated elsewhere.
Good teams also keep their ONLY PROVEN right-handed power threat…who is MAJOR protection for their "big guy"….and if you have to overpay a little to do that….then so be it….
And it's not like Werth is old, either….what?? 30??…Why shouldn't the Phillies keep him?? and then they'll have Taylor and Brown AS WELL….because….as was already explained….Ibanez in aging and will be gone after next year…if not sooner….and Vic could be moved as well…
Right now…Jayson Werth is THE MOST IMPORTANT guy in the outfield..
Jesus the point you are missing is that we will need 2 outfielders by the end if not middle of 2011, and good teams do pay players that have performed for them, that is how you get FA to want to play for your team. Wreth has 4-5 or more good years left so pay him for them.
When Taylor starts hitting 50 HRs a season in the minors, like Howard did.. then you can tell me how much we need to move Werth out of the way, and give Michael Taylor his chance
Major Protection? I think you are over valuing that term a little bit. Did Werth bat behind Howard in his MVP year? Howard has been pretty consistent with his numbers regardless of who has batted behind him. Ibanez has one more year on his contract after this season which is when Brown would step in. Werth is a FA after this season and is going to make/deserve big money which is the reason you have a farm system. To develop young talent to fill voids when players get too expensive. If we didn't have Taylor/Brown in the minors it's a different story. You don't sign a 32yr old to a long term deal when you have a 25yr old to take his place. What team has had success doing that?
Hey look everyone is agreeing except for jesus.
I have one question, why is so importent to find another bull pen arm? Talking about cheaper alternatives, aren't there some farm hands that can be placed in the pen. Bastardo for one, but are there not other guys that we can check out on the cheap and see what they can do. Remember Lidge had a terrible 2007, look what he did in 2008, maybe he is an every other year closer. And I am not saying he will be perfect in 10 but better then last year.
Taylor has a total of 30 GAMES of experience above the AA-level
he hit .282
I think its a little early to be talking about trading Victorino, and bringing Taylor up to learn at the Major League level
you don't add by subtraction.. you don't trade your Gold Glove CF … if you're going ALL-IN by getting Halladay.. why would you make your everyday lineup weaker in the process
lets use common sense from this point on
Why would the Jays want either Vic or Werth when they will be free agents soon? They want Taylor or Brown but the Phils need Taylor and Brown to replace Victorino and Werth once they get expensive.
I love Werth. He's my favorite non-Utley Phillie, but he's going to get $10-12 mil on the open market and the Phils can't afford that. Instead, they will bring up their top prospects (who happen to be corner outfielders!) and pay them $400K while using their money at other positions.
This isn't that hard to figure out.
You are talking like Jayson is going to ask for 10 200 million dollars. You offer him 3 or 4 years at 10-12 and you are not over paying a 32 year old you are rewarding him. And you are saying to all the FA out there that the Phillies are a team you want to play for. You can not take core guys from a great team and just let them go because you have to pay them. And teams that are successful doing that let me see, the Yankees of the 90's the red sox the Angels. What teams are flash in the Pans Marlins, Diamondbacks. When you have good core you pay them, fill in around them for 4-5 years and don't give away the farm for 1 year of anybody.
@ Jesus …. if you don't realize how important it is to have Werth batting behind Howard you don't know how baseball works.
Howard would see ZERO pitches in the strikezone with Ibanez hitting behind him…
teams will absolutely make Ibanez be the guy that beats them this year.. testing his age and injury status all season long
someone just said it above, and I completely agree "WERTH IS THE MOST IMPORANT GUY IN THE OUTFIELD" … he can hit anywhere 1 thru 7 … and can play multiple positions, even emergency catcher
I'm sure he could play 3rd, or 1st in a pinch too ..
On the Open Market, he would be ranked ahead of Jason Bay .. and we've got him here.. You let Werth walk for Michael Taylor, and you might as well give away your hopes for an NL EAST crown too .. Werth is THAT important
Talking about protecting Big Brown: People forget that RAUUUL was the one batting fifth for nearly half of the whole 2009 season.
I never said to trade Vic, I was making a point that you can trade him, or not re sign after 2010, which I think is arbitration year for him, I may be wrong on that. And you would have Taylor to play right and then when Raul is done after 2011 you have Brown in left. I would not do it, the point being that would be smarter then letting Jayson go at all
shag, look at a franchise like the Red Sox that constantly lets player go when they become too expensive and replace them with top prospects like Papelbon and Ellsbury.
I agree that Werth is the man. He will be 31 next year and up until the last 2 years has been a major injury risk.
Teams other than the Yankees have to bring up their prospects to replace similar players once those similar players become expensive.
Also, you should NEVER give a contract out to "reward" someone. Contracts should be given out based on what a player will due in the future, not what they did in the past.
The guy they'll let go is Victorino. Werth will move to Center and Francisco or Taylor will take over Right. The Following year Ibanez is gone and Brown takes the 3rd OF spot.
@ Don, why haven't Howard's numbers gotten so much better with Werth batting behind him then? Please explain that to me? He has been putting up almost identical numbers every year regardless of who is batting behind him. Shag, you obviously don't understand my point if you are using those teams as examples because you are proving my point. The Angels let Texeira go, why? Because they had Morales to fill his spot. The Yanks and Sox have payrolls that allow them to spend unlike other teams. Look at the bind the Tigers are in because they paid there aging players to "reward" them. I am a huge Werth fan but if you know baseball you just don't pay someone big money when you have someone waiting in the wings.
Hmmm, lets see now…
We trade Happ and Taylor or Brown for Halladay.
We don't re-sign Werth, because Taylor can ably replace him, or we trade Victorino instead of Blanton, because Werth can play center and he's Howard's protection. Taylor can replace Werth in right. That means we'll have Halladay, get to keep Blanton, and still have a mighty flexible outfield situation. I'm all for it!
psujoe, you may have a good point. They may let Victorino leave and keep Werth. But they can't hold onto both of them. If Ibanez was a free agent after this season, it would be a moot point-they would re-sign Werth.
Howard's batting average was higher this year with Werth behind him, than with Burrell behind him much of last year..
His HRs and RBIs have been pretty consistant over the last three because of how much power he has..
but if you honestly think Taylor is ready to play in the majors everyday, and bat 5th for a winning team .. .you're on crack
done arguing with people over stuff that doesn't matter anyway…
I just hope they go get Halladay now, if they're going to get him.. just resolve this one way or the other
The Phillies realized that Utley-Howard-Ibanez was a terrible plan, because they ran into stretches where they faced LOTS of Lefty pitchers
the Phillies already had a target on their backs to begin last year.. so they were the type of team that people set their rotations to face
Taylor MIGHT be a good player.. but Werth IS a good player..
The Phillies have made Taylor available, but not Brown.. which tells you that the Phillies think Brown will be a better player..
Lets trade Kendrick for Halladay right now, and just end all this nonsense.. I'll even throw in Moyer
Exactly…..Howard was MUCH better this year….with Werth behind him….that 25 point difference in Howard's BA is HUGE!!!!….Couple that with the power production and RBIs and Howard was amazing this year…
But if Jayson Werth wasn't hitting behind him….that would have been a different story….and I seriously doubt it if we would have made it all the way to the WS….if into the postseason at all..
How can anyone who knows baseball, say taylor wont hit for power. what a stupid statement. The phillies know cliff lee wants to test the free agent market. if they can get halladay for three years its the better deal. Either taylor or brown replace abanez and dont count out gose to be the next center field he is being fast tracked, and also remember if he fails as a outfielder, he is a 97 a hour left hand pitcher, but wanted to try to be a position playe first. If they move blanton they must get a good minor league infielder back, as far as payroll they just had two years of unreal revenue. and spent very little in the draft in fact i might be wrong but the phillies spent less than anyother team in the draft and international market. If they can get halladay if would make them so much better,
I'll tell you guys the truth, if I were Joe Blanton, and I was about the money, I would turn down arbitration and go sign with a team for 9m a year. If Wolf can get 10m and Penny can get 7.5m, then Blanton can certainly get more than he'll win in arb with the Phils (7? 7.5?).
The Dipsy
Here's how we make this happen… we send Happ and a mid-level prospect (May) to Toronto and Vic plus a mid-level prospect (Bastardo) to a third team that thinks they're close… a team like the Reds or the Brewers… in turn, that team send Toronto another upper tier prospect and cash. Toronto gets Happ, an upper level prospect, a mid level prospect and cash. The other team gets Vic and a mid-level prospect and we get Halladay. We play Werth in CF and Francisco in RF until Taylor is ready to come up (mid season?).
hmmm….Smoltz….as a reliever Im fine with that….
Smoltz is a a straight-up HoF guy when he retires…but at his age, I have to wonder what he will have left in his tank. They either sign him for relief on the cheap, or move on to somebody else.
I'd love to get Smoltz. Astros way over paid Lyons.
WFC010 is correct, he is a HoF guy when he retires, which should be NOW. This will be a mistake. Red Sox let him go for a reason, the Cardinals are not going after him for the same reason. He gave the Cards a few decent innings, but then gave them a few HORRID ones. He is a Moyeresque style pitcher lately honestly. Overall through his career he was far better then Moyer, however Smoltz is just plain done. There is one thing that I completely disagree with. Thats trading Victorino. You want to move Werth to CF and Francisco to RF? I sure hope that doesnt happen. That really doesnt seem like a good idea at all. I love Werth in RF, but he doesnt have the range/speed for CF, Francisco has the range/speed, but he doesnt have the glove either one of them do. Why are so many people trying to dismantle this team? I understand trying to "upgrade" certain positions (3rd base, even though we may not have an upgrade) but CF is a strength on the field, why trade strengths? Why trade BOTH Vic and Happ (strengths who are happy in Philly) to land Halladay for one year, to also have to deal Blanton more than likely to clear some money? How could this be a good idea to probably lose 3 good players (Happ, Vic and Blanton) to land Halladay for a single year more than likely? Happ OR Blanton plus a prospect is a different story, but take Vic out of that equation completey, and dont deal BOTH.
We would have loved Smoltz more back during his prime, but now…I just don't know how much he could do for us anymore, not to mention that he doesn't like our ballpark very much.
I am also surprised I dont see anyone talking about Feliz signing with the Atros for 1 yr 4.5 Mill.
The Original Chuck P….so you're saying give up Victorino, Happ, May and Bastardo…I don't think thats a great idea….for a rent a player…unless there is a legit chance that he signs with us for 2-3 more years…if he were to sign with us for a 3 yr 45 million dollar extention lets say I wouldnt mind doing that deal…may is a pretty good prospect possible mid of the rotation guy like happ…giving up victorino hurts but the main question is will anyone bite on taking victorino and a prospect for a top prospect…and I doubt taylor will be ready to come up this year early…mid season yes but the fact that you have to play ben francisco till then kind of hurts the team
I just really hope the players are being honest when they say that they do not listen to this stuff. I do believe that they do though and that must be difficult especially when you are happ who is mentioned in every trade ever dreamed of and blanton who got screwed at the end of the season by not staying in the rotation. Hamels killed this team and their hopes for a repeat world series parade but everyone forgets that
Mayberry is a good player. He needs consistent playing time….not to sit on the bench for 2 weeks and then pinch hit for someone…return to the bench for a week….
I would agree on the Mayberry issue, but if he is on the 25 man roster he would be the 5th outfielder behind Fransico, I think Ben is the first guy off the bench to rest Raul and Wreth. Hopefully with the upgraded bench Charlie will rest guys more often this year, in 08 bench guys got some more playing time cause guys were hurt, but this year with Raul coming off surgery, I would like to see him get one day a week off. Ben is not a great player, but he is defensive upgrade, and with this offense him playing once a week will not be terrible offensively. Charlie will have a much improved bench this year I hope he uses it more than just pinch hitting
Personally, I would rather see Hamels get traded than either Blanton or Happ. Despite his talent, I believe he has the heart of a mosquito and the work ethic of a California towel boy. He will disappoint in the future, I can almost guarantee it.
Best wishes to Pedro Feliz with the Astros. I hope he has a good year. He was a good guy, it is just that Placido Polanco is better.
FOlks, remember that Polanco is a lifetime .303 hitter who gets on base. That is a big, big difference between him and Feliz. Polanco will also hit more homers in Philly than Feliz will because he is in less injury prone. There are not that many lifetime .300 hitters in baseball with over 1500 hits.
Howard has put up the same numbers regardless of who hit behind him. Please stop the 'protection' talk. Werth batted 5th less than 90 games and last I checked Howard won MVP without Werth. I have no problem with not agreeing, but if you are going to attack people's baseball knowledge and accuse them of drug use please have facts to back it up.
holy schnikes 332 comments. That's my boy Roy. Hey it's alright by me if RAJ wants to treat himself to "an official Red Ryder carbine-action 200-shot range model air rifle with a compass in the stock, and this thing which tells time" for Christmas. Just hope if we don't get him that he doesn't go to NY Scut Farkases or the Boston Grover Dills.
wow…someone else not loving and adoring hamels? at least I am not alone in that. hamels truly needs a fresh start….toronto would take him in a second with 1 or 2 others
Brian of CO. – Yep Francisco has the range and speed, and is not flashy with the leather so much but you forgot to mention how you can read War and Peace in the time it takes his throws home to reach home. I would disagree about Werth at CF in regards to range and speed, esp range…dude's all limbs and tall. He just has too many Jeff Spicoli moments to be in charge of the outfield.
Dipsy that isn't how arbitration works, Blanton can't turn down arbitration because he isn't a Free Agent.
I thought he could sign with another team and we get a pick or picks. That what I meant.
The Dipsy
I love/hate how Roy Halladay is making us all go crazy. It's mildly entertaining and very frustrating.
I think Amaro has to trade for Halladay for 2 reasons.
1. They need another solid pitcher to win a world series.
2. I really believe as I think many do that Halladay would be a lot easier to sign to an extension than Lee. I also think that if the Phillies and Jays agree to a trade the Phillies will have some time maybe 48-72 hours to negotiate an extension. If they can't then they won't do the trade. I very seriously doubt Amaro will make a trade for a rental and give up as much as he will have to in order to get it all done. I am not just talking about Happ and Taylor/Brown and whoever else is in the deal but potentially Blanton and whoever else would need to be traded so they can take on Halladay's salary.
Honestly, would anyone have a huge issue with seeing Victorino go? Remember, Polanco will bat in the 2 hole with Victorino either in the 6th, probably 7 spot. You mean to tell me you can't live with the production of Ben Francisco in the 7th hole if it means having Halladay on the team? I could.
Also don't forget, if you are worried about destroying the farm system, we would get 2 picks for Lee if he left and another 2 for Halladay if he left. Not saying that is a good thing per say but its not like we lose these guys for nothing.
The Phillies are the front-runners to land Blue Jays ace Roy Halladay
Victorino is one of my favorite players, but I have long thought that Francisco deserved a shot as an everyday player with us anyway, so it's not like we would HAVE TO throw Taylor or Brown into Victorino's spot if he left. That said, I would prefer to keep Shane around here… but who knows what RAJ say's?
As for Halladay…. I would love to see him with the Phillies, but I wouldn't say that we NEED him to win another World Series either. We could use another top notch rotation guy, but nobody is saying it has to be Halladay.
The Phillies were the front runners to land Halladay back in June/July but then went with Lee.
According to MLB trade rumors:
One baseball source tells Tom Verducci of SI.com that the Phillies have been "very aggressive" in their efforts to obtain Halladay. Apparently the Phils are trying to find the players the Blue Jays want, even if that means looking on other teams.
Would make sense, if they can trade Blanton for any of the guys the Jays might want. But still, I would be cautious of trading Blanton away before acquiring Halladay.
As great as Halladay is, we have to be very careful in what we are willing to give away. There is never any guarantee of anything, like our pals the Mets know only too well.
The one great statement in there talks about how sick the Phillies farm system is that they could trade for Lee and potentially Halladay within 6 months and still have quality blue chip prospects in the system.
Thats so awesome. Credit to Gillick, Amaro, Arbuckle for really building this farm system and to the owners for REALIZING that its more profitable to invest in a farm system than to penny pinch with it.
Arbuckle was the biggest reason our farm system is what it is. Don't be surprise if K.C is contending in a few years because of what he builds there.
Really wish that somebody could have convinced Arbuckle to stay around with us in some capacity 🙁
Time to start another thread. I like to read this blog on my blackberry while sitting on the can at work and it takes me forever to scan to the bottom to read recent comments
Yeah that guy has an army of quality scouts, he brough a few with him to KC I think, but a lot of them are still with the Phillies. I was amazed that they were the most watched team in the NL, behind only the Red Sox and Yankees in all of baseball, wow. Thats what building from within gets you. You have to build the scouting and the farm system first, which they did, then you get the luxury of adding payroll and free agents and making primetime trades when you get the cash from people filling the seats to watch the homegrown quality talent youve assembled.
Good stuff, and if we get the Doctor in the house here, forget about it. That will be the best rotation (even if its for one year) since The Schilling/Johnson co-MVP duo in Arizona.
They wouldnt trade for Halladay without resigning him, thats the thing though. They have to convince themselves they can afford to lock him up for 3 extra years. They will get the prospects back when Cliff Lee turns down arbitration as a type A free agent and gets mega bucks.
Ill hate to see Lee go, because I like his style and approach. Though, Halladays arrival and secured stay would make that, juuuuuuuust a little bit easier to stomach.
Blanton can not become a free agenct this offseason. He is still under team control. He can either agree with the Phils on a 1 year deal or go to arbitration to determine his 2010 salary.
If we are going to lose Lee no matter what, and we can convince a guy like Halladay to accept an extension with us, it may be something they will have to do. As great as Hamels has been, he can't be expected to carry this team alone, so we need other guys who are at least of comparable quality to Hamels to stay competitive.
@ ED R at 7:59…
"Honestly, would anyone have a huge issue with seeing Victorino go? Remember, Polanco will bat in the 2 hole with Victorino either in the 6th, probably 7 spot. You mean to tell me you can't live with the production of Ben Francisco in the 7th hole if it means having Halladay on the team? I could."
Bingo… I was very critical about the Polanco signing but it makes a lot of sense with regards to these developments. We have too many top of the order guys, Vic's value is about as high as it will ever be, why not consider trading him? Ben Fran won't kill us batting 7th. On the contrary, he might actually be a better fit in that spot. And if you fast forward to mid-season, maybe Taylor is ready to go. Maybe Mayberry figures out how to hit a breaking ball… my point, outfield is obviously the strength of our farm. It makes a lot of sense to move one of our current outfielders if it means that we can get decent return.
Glad to see someone is in agreement with me. I would not be surprised if Amaro signed Polanco because he knew he would have to, or might have to part with Victorino either directly or indirectly to get Halladay. Amaro seems to be a very calculated individual, making moves while thinking 3 to 4 steps ahead. I bet he is a chess wiz.
I have to agree that the Phils front office has done a remarkable job of building the farm system. It's incredible that we are considered to have the 4th best system AFTER we traded for Lee. It really is a credit to the job Arbuckle and co. did.
Jesus …
just got back on here. .
you really, honestly, seriously .. don't see how Werth is important hitting behind Howard??
Teams are afraid of Werth.. which is why Howard sees more pitches.. teams dont want to throw around him to put runners on base, since Werth can also drive the ball out of the ballpark
Ibanez can do that too, but late in games.. teams would bring in these Lefty relievers with big, sweeping breaking balls … and would Strikeout Utley, Howard, and Ibanez to end any threats of a comeback.
That's why Ibanez can't bat 5th.. And Taylor can't bat 5th, because he's just not ready. MAYBE next year, but probably not.. he won't be ready for that pressure-filled role until at least 2 years into his major league career
Ed R…
Original Chuck P…
I ALSO very much agree with the Vic idea. Polanco opens up that possibility A LOT. Werth can play center….and probably do it very well….and I can TOTALLY live with Ben Fran as a regular for awhile….I actually think he's an upgrade over Feliz inthe 7th spot..
I like Vic….but…..as Isaid yesterday….Jayson Werth is the most important outfielder the Phillies have right now….he can also play multiple positions if needed and is no slouch with speed, either..
If landing Halladay means using Vic's trade value…then do it….I'd actually rather part with Vic than either Taylor or Brown..
RE: Victorino.
Now we have three guys who don't strike out and don't walk, those being Rollins, Vicorino, and Polanco. The case to trade Victorino, while a really good player, is as follows:
1) He's a #2 hitter. So is Polanco.
2) He's a really good centerfielder. Werth can play that position, easily.
3) He has a lot of trade value.
Quite simply, he's good at a lot of stuff we already have plenty of and he can be replaced in the filed. Let him go. I love him, but let him go. That gives you cash to help with Halladay and will get you a piece to put in the outfield that will be more compatible with the team we already have. OR you can just play Francisco. Or perhaps you can trade Vic in a deal for a good, cheap #4 starter if you wanna replace Blanton.
Not bad at all.
The Dipsy
Francisco as an everyday player??? really people??
I think you can hold onto Victorino for this season, he'll be a decent piece in the #7 hole. Remember, he's got some pop in his bat, and hits for fairly high average, so I think hitting behind the likes of Howard, Werth and Ibanez will give him a lot of RBI opportunities. Then I agree, you can probably only keep one of Werth or Victorino, and i'll probably choose Werth if that's the case.
That lineup plus a starting rotation that includes the names Halladay, Lee and Hamels… lock it up.
Anyone else think that we are offering far too much for Halladay. The Jays have to trade him. The next best offer is Joe Saunders and Eric Aybar. Both those guys are arbitration eligible this year, Saunders is not nearly as good straight up as Happ (not arbitration eligible til 2012), and I don't really think Aybar is all that great, he had a really good year last year, but he's essentially a good defensive shortstop with no power and little speed. Taylor is a potential 35 HR guy, I think a lot of his line drives are going to be out of the park in MLB. He is a corner outfielder, but his defense is supposedly good. I can't see 6 years of him (three at the MLB minimum) as worth less than 3 of Eric Aybar (all at arbitration rates).
I think RAJ should take a step back and realize we have the best deal on the table, and the best player (Happ) mentioned so far.
If given the option of trading Vic or Blanton (in order to get Halladay), I would keep Blanton. I think that starting Francisco every day in the 7 hole hurts us less than not having a #4 starter.
Call me crazy, but as I have written in earlier posts and articles, that I think Halladay has always told the Jays that's its gotta be the Phillies and that Jays are, and always have been, trying not to look hamstrung when talking about dealing him. Riccardi got fired for not making that deal when he could and I think this new guy knows not to make the same mistake.
The Dipsy
Agree with you there Chuck P. I'd sooner part with Victorino over Blanton though to get Halladay I think both will have to go. Maybe not to the Jays per say but both will go. Werth is too valuable to be traded.
I agree….Francisco could really excel as an everday player…in the 7 hole…and…true…if KEEPING Blanton and trading Vic means we could possibly get Halladay….why WOULDN'T you want to do that??
Taylor is a HUGE dude.. facing minor league pitching.. and only hitting 20 HRs a year..
what makes people think that will translate into a pure power hitter in the majors??
Joe Saunders is better than JA Happ. .. probably according to everyone in baseball
I've been wondering if the Jays are trying to get Freddy Galvis as part of this deal… the Phillies young shortstop who, according MOST scouts, can already play defense at the Major League level
mlb trade rumors:
"Olney heard the Blue Jays' asking price of the Phillies for Roy Halladay "is about the same" as it was in July. That doesn't seem logical, but we are talking about two different GMs here. Olney was able to confirm the reported Halladay demands the Jays made of the Yankees: Jesus Montero, Joba Chamberlain or Phil Hughes, and more. "
As long as they keep insistant on a similar price then the Phillies wont touch that.
When I need to know something about the Phils, just give me the Finger!
The Dipsy
The difference may be that the price is the same, but with an extension this time. I still think it's a negotiating ploy to try to get Lee to extend.
WOuld the Jays be interested in Ryan Rowland-Smith? Maybe Phils could package Blanton and MOyer(Phils pay his salary) to get him and flip him instead of Happ?
Just thinking.
Wait a second….give up Blanton and try to unload Moyer and then turn around and PAY 8 million….??? Makes no sense. Plus….Toronto's not gonna want Moyer anyway…
Trade Blantan and Moyer to Seattle. Let Jamie retire a Mariner. I really want to keep Happ so i though maybe the Mariners would give up Rowland-Smith, a good young pitcher for two potential starters for the price of one. I don't see Moyer inthe Phils rotation so they're going to eat his salary anyway.
The you trade Rowland-Smith, Taylor or Brown and another prospect for Halladay.
If Halladay budges and says that he will negotiate an extension, the asking price certainly goes up. Drabek would not be off limits if that were the case…
I'm a Jamie Moyer fan, but realistically, do you think anyone wants him? It's not going to be easy pawning him off on another team at this point, we don't even know if he's going to be healthy. Why would you assume the new Jays' GM will want that much less than they were asking before for Roy? It's not like his value has gone down, they're still going to want close to what they did before, and no one (well, a few did) wanted to pull the trigger on giving up Happ, Drabek, Taylor/Brown.
Noooo, don't let Freddy Galvis go, he's a gem.
"Noooo, don't let Freddy Galvis go, he's a gem."
A gem in the rough, maybe – okay, definitely – but hope he can learn to hit. He's a gem to us because we are sooo short on IF prospects.
I'm pretty sure that every single team in baseball would like to have Galvis in their farm system
imagine if we could go 15+years with Gold Glove-caliber Shortstops .. that would be great
I'm not sold on Frqancisco as an every day player, but what about platooning him with Gload? Fransisco agaist lefties, GLaud against righties wouldn't be a terrible #7 hitter? Only if it lets the Phils keep Happ and acquire Halladay.
We aren't going to be as good with a platoon situation …
Halladay will pitch in 30+ games.. even if he wins 20.. is that worth weakening your everyday lineup??? there are 162 games.. which is why im always a big fan of defenese and contact hitting
Let the teams like the Mets handcuff themselves with Santana… now they are willing to pay Jason Bay like $16.5 M for 5-6 years ?? They suck at life
Don M,
Don't get me wrong – I like Galvis. It's just that I think it is still a crapshoot as to whether he will be able to hit much (if at all) over .200 against major league pitching. He has time to learn, and I hope it works.
Is Galvis well regarded by the various prospect publications? Just wondering cuz Scurato is now a Red Sox and the Jays value good fielding esp. with the Skydome's astro turf.
Well I guess from what's being said, my point maybe moot as it sounds like Galvis isn't far even along to get thrown into the proverbial deep end at this point.
halladay shmalladay. when are we getting a bullpen
j reed,
Galvis is regarded as one of the best fielding prospects of our time. He is awesome in the field – just needs to learn to hit.
mitch williams is gonna get real sick of talking about Condrey being from Texas and lidge blowing another save on season 2 of the pen
kennedy ur placing too much emphasis on happ. its waaay too early to tell how 'great' hes gonna be. he had a great season, working himself into the rotation, but he would be lucky to have such a high win percentage again in his sophomore year.
and the dipsy–for once i agree with ya. ilove victorino, but i would not be surprised if he was moved. of the offseason moves, i thought the phils not offering him a contract was high on the probability list. he may get resigned, but after 2010 i do not see vic AND werth in the OF. if we do trade for roy halladay, and werth has another amazing season, he will definitely price himself out of philies budget.
Can someone answer a question… why does Neil Sellers get no love? The guy who was our '09 AA MVP isn't even a blip on the radar screen!! Not saying he's our top prospect but in 6 minor league seasons, he has never hit below .271. He has comfortably settled into a 15-20 HR groove and he plays 3B… he hits the ball everywhere he goes, including the Mexican Winter league where he's hitting .371. Is his fielding that terrible? Just curious…
Don M. – Keep in mind that Santana had Pelfrey, Maine, Perez and whoever else not named Tim Redding who we hit the crap out. Also those met's b-bpens vicitimized many mets starting pitcher. I get what your saying though. Now, Halladay, Lee, Hamels….that's a little different….Plus my neighbor is a Yankees fan so I would just like to see the look on his face if we landed Halladay.
Chuck P,
Something like 27 years old and was still AA. I like him, but I'm biased about everyone there. College players are expected to have enough experience not to need 5 years + to get to AAA, I guess.
I want no part of halladay. call me crazy but i don't think a geriatric usta be and a question mark every 4th and 5th day isn't going to get you to, let alone win, another world series. Especially if your entire pen consists of condry, romero, madson and lidge … and maybe some rule 5 draftee … maybe. Giving up two good starters for one great starter … and getting him for just one year. Not even a little bit worth it.
Hit send to early – Chuck P – to answer the rest of your question –
His fielding is, to be nice, not worth writing home about, but I don't think it's as bad as others do. At least in rookie league (I think it was rookie, and not low A), he was in the Houston (I think Houston – hope memory serves or someone will crucify me) org, and was actually a defensive player of the year or something like that.
My biggest gripe would be his baserunning.
On Sellers – Just looked it up – one correction – only the team defensive player of the month.
I don't think they necessarily need to trade Blanton in order to get Halladay. It might make it more feasible financially, but it would make the back end of the rotation very questionable. Or perhaps they will trade Blanton, and somehow manage to hold onto Happ…either way, I can't imagine Amaro leaving 4&5 in our rotation to the likes of Moyer and Kendrick…
I'd be stunned if we don't land the Good Doctor. We already threw away a ring this season by not going for the kill and getting Doc. Don't f*ck up again Phillies. We gotta get 1-2 more parades out of this once in a generation-like core.
mayberry's criticism–he cant hit offspeed pitches. ok fair enough. that was werth's criticism last year as well. i think with more time mayberry can/will prove to have decent offensive production. he just needs more playing time. his long arms gives him that same sort of great plate coverage that we all have seen jayson werth refine this season. mayberry may not put up as many power numbers, but i think he, like werth, could potentially work himself into a starting role.
the reason i even consider this is because our OF now and in the future is going to be very much changed if roy comes here:
1–roy signs multiyear deal w phillies–likely not alot of cash to extend werth, especially if werth has another 30/100rbi season. have to look for an inhouse option for RF. (who ever out of brown/taylor that didnt go to toronto)
2–this leaves a sort of question mark in LF, as ibanez effectivness surely will begin to decline, if not 2010 def by the last year of his contract. one of brown/taylor is slotted to be ibanez replacement, but if they have to replace werth, who plays out there???
i dont like doing 'what if' scenarios like this, because it is unlikely anyway. but i basically just use this sort of mentality to question whether or not it is worth bringing in roy halladay.
Mayberry could be an okay guy to have, but it's still difficult to say what he is capable of without more playing time, but I wouldn't mind seeing him spend more time on the field this coming season. Don't give up on a guy before he has enough time to prove himself.
Don, I NEVER said Taylor was ready this year. You have to know that just because he put up ONLY 20hr's in the minors doesn't mean that he won't hit for power in the majors. Look up some other prominent power hitters and look at their minor hr totals. I am trying to say that Howard has put up ridiculous numbers regardless of who hit behind him. Werth only batted behind him less than 90 games. I'm not attacking Werth at all. I love the guy and wish he could stay with us, but it just doesn't make sense to sign a guy when we have a top prospect to fill his position. We don't have a limitless payroll, so we have to be smart with it. Signing Werth to a long term deal at 32 when we would have a 25yr old to fill his spot for 1/25th-1/30th of the cost just isn't smart.
Yes, but what happens if Taylor and/or Brown turn out to be busts?
The odds may be against it, but anything can happen and it's hard to say anything is guaranteed. Nobody should trade Werth until we are sure the guy who would be taking over is ready for it. Prospects are never certain things, so I am hoping that Taylor gets some time to prove himself this year. Should we see him fielding well with numbers comparable to Werth or Vic, then well…
WFC, not trading Werth. I'm saying his contract is up after this season and he is in line for and deserves a pretty big raise, probably in the neighborhood of 10-12mill/yr easy for at least 4yrs. Taylor will be 25 and would have had 1.5yrs at AAA by that time. Have to promote your top prospects at some time. That's all I'm trying to say.
"Throw a cat concerning a foot to the opposite side of him"
Making rice in a pot is alright if you do not care about flavor and texture. However, if you want to eat quality rice, you actually ought to purchase a high quality ricecooker.
People really need to take a close look at waht is happening to the planet. Please help out by doing more for the environment.