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Handcrafted from premium leather and lined with soft velvet, this is the zippered case that protects a collection of six fine pens. Its superior cowhide is vegetable-tanned to bring out its natural grain, resulting in a luxuriously supple leather that befits a Waterman Exception or Pelikan Majesty. Inside, each pen is protected and swaddled with plush velvet and secured with a pair of elastic loops. The interior also has a pocket for a business card or address, to identify the case in the event of loss. Made in the U.S. Pens not included. Black or Brown. 6 3/4" L x 6 1/2" W x 1 1/4" D. (1 lb.)
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The Pen Collector's Handmade Case comes with The Hammacher Schlemmer Lifetime Guarantee at no additional charge. If this product ever disappoints you, for any reason, you may return your Hammacher Schlemmer purchase for exchange, credit, or refund.Should you have any questions, we are available 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Please call 1-800-321-1484 to speak with a product specialist or email us at email@example.com to receive a response within one hour.
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Thanks Are In Order!
You wouldn't be able to see this site had it not for the excellent internet marketing team over at the lions marketing seo studios who helped get this site great exposure. Thanks so much and keep doing what you guys do best!
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Compost TeaMarch 28th, 2012
We all make tea-purchasing mistakes. Some are small, some are large, but for me, they all end up in the same place. I had been stubborn about this one, but Hobbes' recent post referenced an earlier experience with a damaged cake that convinced me to send this 2007 Changtai 7538 to the compost pile. I purchased it about a year and a half ago from China Cha Dao for a measly $8. You get what you pay for, I guess. The two tastes of the tea gave a strong and vile burning rubber aroma and flavor. Being stubborn, I had hoped the character would blow off. Finally, Hobbes' description of a similar aroma convinced me it needed go decompose for awhile. I left the wrapper on as I'm curious to see how it returns to earth.

subset: commoncrawl


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My MIL and FIL have just offered to come down to visit us in August and watch our kids for the weekend (we have 3) so that dh and I can have a weekend away. My lo will be 23 months at that point. I'm so torn. I really don't want to wean him (that's why I'm posting here and not the weaning board) but with 3 little kids things are crazy at home and it would be nice to not take the toddler along with us on our romantic weekend getaway. A few years ago (when I was pregnant with #3 and not nursing anyone) dh and I did get away and stayed at a bed and breakfast and hiked a lot - it was really nice, but obviously we couldn't do that with a nearly 2 year old. My dh isn't pressing me to wean but he thinks I've nursed our lo for a long time. Compounding this is that I just got my first AF and we hope to conceive soon so I may end up weaning him in the fall anyway. My lo nurses a lot so if I"m going to have him weaned by August I would need to start now.
Any help or encouragement would be appreciated.


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Thanks for the traninng Kiritsugu :D
-Waits under the midday sun in a forest clearing-
Last edited by Abon; 12-09-2012 at 02:41 PM.
You missed a T in my name. xD
Alright, well, why do you want to learn Genjutsu?
>.> Darn Spelling Nazis *fixes Mistake* lol
-I would like to learn genjutsu, because is can be used more than most shinobi technqiues strategitcally. Being used to bind opponets for length of time depending on the power of the Genjutsu Technique. And is useful against swift opponets to catch them off guard. Also, it makes RP intresting-
Yeah, I'm extremely OCD when it comes to English, haha, my apologies.
Hm, alright, decent reply, but there's one major point when it comes to Genjutsu, and that is Creativity.
Why might Creativity be so vital in Genjutsu?
No Worries Bro
-Creativity is vital to the techniques of genjutsu as it because the stronger the imagination of the user the more "real" the illusions become. This is why genjutsu is so versitile, it comes from the imagination of the user. The more possibilities the user can come up with during genjutsu and the more elaborate it is, the more potent it is to the opponet.So creativity used in conjuction in terms of chakra. If you have a creative mind and can force your chakra into the senses/mind of the opponet the more effective the genjutsu is.-
o_o Perfect!
Now, how might a shinobi inflict a Genjutsu? What exactly is the process?
-A shinobi inflicts genjutsu on the opponet by injecting/forcing their chakra into the opponets nervous system. Depending on the tech the user makes the nesscary handsigns (if any) and depedning on range. Forces their chakra into the opponets nervous system.This allows them to completely tamper with all 5 senses of the opponet and even their memories in some cases. But detail is key, this why genjutsu is one of the most challenging types of techniques to learn.-
Perfect. o_o All five senses, keep that in mind.
So, say that you were trapped in a Genjutsu right now. In what ways could you get out?
-When trapped in a genjutsu there are several way to escape depending of the level/power of the techniqe. The shinobi under genjutsu can preform the techniqe called "Kai". In activating the Kai tecnique the user stops thir chakra durning the genjutsu and then applies a stronger burst of chakra to break out. Or as an alternative to the Kai technique the shinobi under genjutsu can cause sef harm. Although this has a down side besides the obvious not only are you causing damage to the body but th amount of damge varies to how powerful the genjutsu is, so you could end up fatally woudning yourself as a means for escape. Also most Dojutsu users the Like users of the sharingan (Me ) or Byakugan can see the disturbance to the chakra flow and then thus knowing they are in a genjutsu. Which is a key thing, the Shinobi must know their in a genjutsu are else they will not know to break it.-
Alright, good, you covered three main ways. I'll go into more detail later on each of them.
However, what do you know of full body surges as well?
-Ahh, yes yes. The full body surges. A pulse/surge of chakra that can cause a genjutsu to be broken. This can happen through the activation of a Dojutsu or a mode such as sage mode. Also full body surges can be activated by a jinchuuriki. One that has significant control over the bijuu, the bijuu can send a surge of chakra that can dissrupt the injected chakra sent in my the genjutsu user.However fullbody surges are not limited to these things, they are simply a chakra surge sent the through the chakra network that disregulates the chakra to which break the genjutsu.
Excellent. So which jutsus may be considered a full body chakra surge?
Assuming you're talking about Techniques and not awakening doujutsu >_O
__________________________________________________ ____________
-Jutsu that can be considered a full body surge would be Chidori Nagashi or Raiton Armour because it affects the brain synapes of the body and stimpulates them in a "shocking" way...-
Haha, perfect, however, which rank can that go up to only?
-Full body surges can only go up to Rank A-
Excellent...but Nagashi can go up to B only, I believe.
Let's start simple now. First, try and transform our surroundings into anything you want.
You must first concentrate on your chakra and then release it out of your body onto me, then deliberately control each of my five senses to get me to see what you want.
-Nods Head
I make the Snake handseal, concentrating intensely. Gathering my chakra, and then forcing into you. I then on manipulatate the chakra. First by manipulating the Sight making you see nothing but blue sky and and blue ocean as far as the eye can see. That we even seem to be standing on it. I then manipulate your Smell, further manipulating my chakra in you. Making you smell the Fresh and Salty sea breeze and Tasting the crisp, clean and refreshing air. I go even further letting you hear the Sound of sea gulls and other fowls making sounds and splashing water. I then go manipulating further making you feel the water's cold liquidy texture texture as the water splashes upon you.-
Excellent. So, I'll now teach you a very important concept that will come into play for most battles.
It is called cause and effect. For example, you used a Wind Jutsu to blow away the explosive tag, thus, I can follow up with a prepared fire move to disregard your Wind Jutsu, so that it overcomes it and is sent back at you two times stronger.
By taking the upper hand, you can juggle your opponent around and have them react the way you want to, as we are all forced to make moves and survive in a battle. This is most often used in chess, where it is necessary to be able to predict several moves ahead of the opponent.
Alright, so considering the circumstance and the environment you created, how might you use this against me?
Taking advantage of all the senses. I would relase a Fireball at you, taking advatage of the smell of the sea water to hide the smell ash and flames along with the feel of the heat. Because you are feeling the spra of the water. Also i Take advatage of sight wth you seeng nothing but water and blue sky. You could not see the fireball. You also could not taste the hot air in the back of your thraot because in the genjutsu you are tasting the crisp air. And you can not hear the roar of the flames due to you hearing the sounds of waves and birds.
( Magen: Kokoni Arazu no Jutsu ) - Demonic Illusion: False Surroundings Technique
Rank: D
Type: Supplementary
Range: Short-Mid
Chakra Cost: 10 (+5 if you use it double)
Damage Points: N/A
Description: The user casts an illusion over an area that allows him to manipulate the way an area looks to fool an opponent. He can only change the way the terrain looks, and not any other feature.
Let me teach you about handseals now.
Let's say you had one jutsu that required only one handseal, but your opponent had one that required five.
How would you take advantage of this?
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Snow White
Snow White by Zoya can be best described as a pure white creme that's as clean and bright as freshly-fallen snow. The perfect French manicure tip shade.Color Family - White
Finish - Cream
Intensity - 5 ( 1 = Sheer - 5 = Opaque )
Tone - Cool
For Best Results
Step 1: Clean the nail plate with Remove Plus ( Remove ) nail polish remover and nail plate cleaner
Step 2: Choose and apply the right base coat: Zoya Anchor for regular healthy nails or Zoya GetEven for nails with ridges
Step 3: Apply 2 coats of your favorite Zoya Nail Polish Color
Step 4: Apply a coat of Zoya Armor Top Coat
Step 5: Drop one drop of Zoya Fast Drops to the base of your nail bed
Following these 5 steps guarantees up to 14 days of wear on natural nails.
I bought this white polish for creating nail art. This is the color you want if you are looking for pure white. So white you could practically use it for white-out. Perfect for french manicure tips, but I`m planning to get some sheer pink to layer it with. It is so bright, I want to tone it down.
This is a super white polish. It is the perfect polish for a nice white tip on a french manicure!


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First Moments Ltd
$37 for a 3D Baby Hand & Foot Casting Kit incl. Nationwide Delivery
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- Capture that special moment.
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DaVinci Bridal 50298 Wedding Dress
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Size: 6 (S)
Price: $1,138.99
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50298 Wedding Dress
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This item has original tags and shows no visible signs of wear.
Davinci Wedding Dresses, Spring 2015. Lace mermaid gown features a scoop neckline trimmed with beaded detail. Beaded 1-inch straps extend to a low scoop zipper back and chapel length train.
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Photo by
Joyce and Frank Burek
The hawksbill turtle is a relatively small sea turtle with overlapping plates on its shell and a hooked jaw. It grows up to 22 inches long and weighs up to 100 pounds. The turtle comes out of the water only to breed. It lays its eggs in a nest it digs in the sand, and returns to the ocean, allowing the eggs to develop and hatch.
Hawksbill Turtle
(Eretmochelys imbricata)


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Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan told NBC's Ann Curry in an exclusive interview that the Syrian government has used chemical weapons and missiles, and crossed President Obama's "red line" long ago. Erdogan will meet with Obama on May 16 to discuss the evidence he claims to have.
Turkey's prime minister is charging that the Syrian government has used chemical weapons against its people and has called on the U.S. to take stronger action, he told NBC News' Ann Curry in an exclusive interview Thursday.
"It is clear the regime has used chemical weapons and missiles," Turkish premier Recep Tayyip Erdogan said.
Erdogan gave no specifics about when and where the weapons were allegedly used, but he said he believes President Obama's "red line" for the U.S. in deciding whether to take action has been crossed.
Syria's Deputy Foreign Minister is angry at Israel's attacks on Syria. Faisal al-Mekdad said Syria "does not neglect its rights and its sacred right to defend its own people." ITV's Bill Neely reports.
"It has been passed long time ago," said Erdogan, who is meeting with Obama on May 16.
"We want the United States to assume more responsibilities and take further steps. And what sort of steps they will take, we are going to talk about this."
Erdogan cited as evidence the "remainders of missiles" — at least 200 by his count — that he believes were used in chemical attacks, along with the injuries of Syrians brought over the Turkish border for medical treatment.
"There are patients who are brought to our hospitals who were wounded by these chemical weapons," he said.
Erdogan rejected any suggestion that the rebels might have used chemical weapons.
"There is no way I can believe in this now. First of all, how are they going to obtain this? And who will give this to them?" he said.
"But if it exists, we are against this...We are against whoever holds the weapons."
In an interview with NBC's Ann Curry, Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan says Syrian President Bashar al-Assad crossed Obama's red line "a long time ago."
A member of the United Nations' commission on Syria claimed this week "strong, concrete suspicions but not yet incontrovertible proof" that the rebels has used sarin gas, but the panel quickly backed away from those claims -- adding that it had "not reached conclusive findings as to the use of chemical weapons in Syria by any parties to the conflict."
The White House — which has said it has varying levels of confidence that sarin was used on a small scale in Syria — quickly threw cold water on the suggestion that the rebels were to blame.
Erdogan said he could not confirm that sarin was used in Syria. "We don't have such a finding yet," he said.
Asked whether Turkey would support a U.S.-enforced no-fly zone in Syria, Erdogan said, "Right from the beginning...we would say 'yes.'"
He denied that Turkey has provided military support to the rebels but said his country has spent nearly $1 billion on aid to 300,000 refugees from Syria.
"We keep the open door policy because they are fleeing oppression." Erdogan said.
Erdogan said he has heard reports that Assad's wife and children have already left Syria, their lives "ruined" by him.
"The thing he should do now is to leave Syria," he said. "Sooner or later, the opposition are going to get him."
Editor's note: An earlier version of this story included a response from Erdogan to a two-part question about whether he would support a U.S.-enforced no-fly zone and American troops in Syria. The translator only asked Erdogan about the no-fly zone, however, and the story has been changed to reflect that.


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Healthcare quality week in Wayne
October 17, 2012 —
A number of professionals connected to the Wayne Memorial Community Health Centers (WMCHC) and Wayne Memorial Health System attended the kick-off of Healthcare Quality Week, which will occur from October 14 to 20.
These centers are functionaries of the Wayne Memorial Hospital.
"Quality professionals make a positive contribution to improved healthcare by monitoring outcomes, analyzing data to facilitate improved systems and by maintaining high ethical standards," said Brian Smith, chairman of the Wayne County commissioners.
"We started a quality assurance program at the health centers," said Patty Bohs, health quality specialist. "We want to publicly reveal what we have been doing behind the scenes."
"One of the things we are seeing is that the whole health care system is moving to healthcare quality and not just quantity, not just the number of services we are offering," said WMCHC Executive Director Frederick Jackson. "We started a patient-centered medical home care initiative. It is a certification that we aimed to achieve. We want to see the transparency that you see on the social services side. People want to see results."
"We have eight medical centers located throughout Susquehanna, Pike and Lackawanna counties," said Maria Diehl, public relations specialist at Wayne Memorial Hospital. "The centers offer primary care, women's health services, pediatrics, behavior health, general surgery and home and health medicine."


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I'm in the WI/MI border (pembine if anyone happens to be from the area). I'm looking for a LLL group. The closest one I could find online is about 1.5hrs away which is a bit far with a newborn and a 22 month old who both are carseat haters. If you do the search by zip code it is 54156 or the closest "bigger" towns are Marinette, WI Menominee, MI Iron Mountain, MI.
Or if you could let me know where to look or call about any groups in the area. There isn't anything in the phone book or online and the LC at the hospital I delivered at doesn't seem to return calls
Thanks for any help
Eric 2/28/04
Kyan 1/4/06


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Book Review: Don't Be Such A Scientist
I'll never forget the day when I argued for protecting parents against misleading and false information about the treatment of autism. I was working at a large consumer health organization whose mission was to "empower patients with accurate information" so that they could take control of their health. My opposition was himself a physician who requested that our organization publish an article that advised parents of children with autism to seek out DAN! practitioners and chelation therapy.
I prepared my remarks with the utmost care and delivered them to a committee of our lay executives. I cited examples of children who had died during chelation treatments, explained exactly why there was no evidence that chelation therapy could improve the symptoms of autism and in fact was based on the false premise that "heavy metals" in vaccines were implicated in the etiology of the disease. I concluded that it would be irresponsible for the company to publish such misleading advice/information for parents, and would in fact be counter to our entire mission.
My physician opponent suggested that it was our company's duty to inform parents of all their options, that we should not be judgmental about treatments, and that I was part of a paternalistic medical establishment that tried to silence creative thinking.
The committee ended up siding with my opponent. I was flabbergasted and asked one of the committee members what on earth they were thinking. She simply shrugged and said that my opponent was more likable than I was.
This experience marked the beginning of my journey towards fighting fire with fire – understanding that being right is not the same as being influential, and that "winning" an argument (where lives are on the line) requires a different skill set than I learned in my scientific training.
Book Review
And so it was with great interest that I picked up Randy Olson's book, Don't Be Such A Scientist: Talking Substance In An Age Of Style. (more…)


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Stanford Sisal Rug
Product Info
- Fiber Content: 100% Eco-Friendly Natural Fiber Sisal
- Hand Crafted by Artisan Rug Maker. Imported
- Self Bound, Non-Slip Latex Backing
- Naturally Durable and Great for High Traffic Areas
- Variations are part of the Natural Beauty of Natural Fiber Rugs
- Rug Pad Recommended (Sold Separately)
Beautify your home with our unique sisal area rugs. The Stanford sisal rug is a handcrafted beauty, direct from Mother Nature. If you'd like to add floor covering to a bare hardwood floor, our stunning Stanford sisal natural rug is the perfect answer.
More Info
- We recommend using Host Dry Carpet Cleaner for spills and accidents
Additional Information:
- Rug Care & Maintenance
- How to Make Rugs Lay Flat
- Tips for Selecting an Area Rug
- Natural Flooring Buying Guide
- Rug Term Dictionary
- Methods of Handmade Rug Construction
Please Note: The color may vary from the actual color of the rug due to different monitor settings.
Every Rug Needs a Rugpad
Yes, recommended to a friend.Consistently The Best Value and Service October 01, 2013
"You can always count on this company to deliver a great product and great service. I have bought many rugs here and all were shipped same day and via fedex for prompt delivery. This Stanford Sisal has a great rubber backing which holds it in place and the wheat color is beautiful on hardwood floors. Customer service is spot on and will always address any concerns. I strongly recommend them."
Great Purchase September 13, 2013
"This is the third time that I have ordered from Natural Area Rugs. I was hesitant at first, but I've been super pleased every time I've ordered, whether it's a custom size and color or a "ready to ship" carpet. The Stanford Sisal is a great rug and I'm going to order another one (or two!). It's a good thickness - will be easy to clean and vacuum and won't pick up dog hair. It's gentle under foot too. Delivery was quick and efficient."
Yes, recommended to a friend.stylish with an earthy feel September 12, 2013
"I love the rug! It fits in well with our style and seems low maintenance. I will however note that cleaning may be a problem with this rug. One of my kitty's had an accident of the hairball nature...and the stain was difficult to treat as water and sisal don't mix well. I hadn't considered that before purchasing and wish I had looked into it further. But that aside, the rug is great, looks good, great quality. I'd recommend."
Yes, recommended to a friend.Love this rug! May 06, 2013
"This is the best rug ever for high traffic areas and the color is fantastically neutral. I have hardwood floors and need to cover them so my dogs don't slip and hurt themselves (me too). The edges lie perfectly flat so no tripping. I had Stanford in four rooms and needed to replace all because it of natural dog disaster. Sadly, no Stanford was to be found. I replaced Stanford with more expensive rugs from a different source and have been nostalgic for Stanford ever since. Stanford was superior in every way. Years later, dog disaster struck again. Even though Stanford is not the same as the other rugs in the room, it is my first choice for replacement because it is the best rug ever. I am so happy to see Stanford back in stock. The quality and price make Stanford my first choice for the high traffic areas in my house. Love Stanford!"
Yes, recommended to a friend.In LOVE with this rug November 23, 2012
"Can't say enough good things about this rug. I have lived in my house for almost 6 years and this is one of my favorite purchases ever. It sits under the front legs of my couch and love seat which actually keep them from moving (the couch is in front of a big bay window and my 3 year old or big Lab constantly used to push it up against the window). Not only does the rug not move, but it doesn't look dirty ever. My previous rugs always had dog hair on them and looked dirty 5 minutes after I vacuumed because of it. I can go 2 weeks withour vacuuming and it looks great. Also, it is backed with latex so it doesn't move, the floor doesn't get scratchy and the weird dusty sandy particles don't fall through like an old jute rug I have. LOVE. I'm trying to get a circle version now so I can back on here."
Yes, recommended to a friend.LOVE this rug! September 25, 2012
"I am now the owner of 4 of these rugs. You can't beat the quality and the price/customer service are fabulous too. you'd spend 2 or 3X the amount for an equal rug at crate and barrel or restoration hardware. I love this rug."
Yes, recommended to a friend.Great rug, fast shipping June 29, 2012
"Rug came lightning-fast... I ordered on a Sunday and it arrived the following Thursday. It's perfect for my needs--low profile rug (not a thick boucle), great neutral color that is not too yellow, and has a nonslip backing to it. This is a great neutral rug for any room. I have it in my guest room and will layer a cowhide rug over it. The sisal is a bit scratchy on bare feet, but I kind of like that... I'm sure kitty will have fund scratching on it, too. :)"
Yes, recommended to a friend.Quality Far Exceeds Price May 27, 2011
"Fantastic rug! Look, feel, finishing, color all surpassed my expectations, especially at this low price point. Anyone interested in a natural fiber rug that looks posh and will integrate into any decor should BUY THIS RUG!
My only wish is that it came in more sizes, and definitely that it was available as 8'x10'."
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A 28-year-old man is dead after crashing his motorcycle along the Likelike Highway.
Police say the crash happened on the Kaneohe bound side of the highway, just before the Wilson tunnel, around 4:15 Sunday morning.
Police say the man was pronounced dead at the scene.
He was wearing a helmet, but speed appears to be a factor in the crash.
Honolulu Police Lt. Bobby Towne said, "Speed is a definite factor in this case. If he were traveling the speed limit, it probably would have been easier to negotiate speedway."
Witnesses tell police they saw the motorcyclist pass them at a high rate of speed. Witnesses say when they caught up to him, they saw that he had crashed.
Likelike Highway northbound was closed while police investigated, but it has since been reopened.


text:
Volunteers Assist Rangers with a Tough Job
Working horses and mules are essential to Yellowstone National Park staff, and they require special care and protection. Corrals need to stay in good condition, but replacing an entire corral is an extremely time-consuming and labor-intensive undertaking. Fortunately, a group of incredibly dedicated volunteers spends a week each year helping rangers and their stock by getting this tough job done.
Corrals are located in key areas throughout the Park to contain working stock. The decades-old Lake Corral, located near Yellowstone Lake, is home to 20-25 head of stock from late spring through early fall. Around 8-10 of the horses are used by rangers on backcountry patrol, and up to 15 horses and mules are used by trail maintenance crews.
The corrals protect these working animals from wildlife. Bison, in particular, seeking the hay within corrals, can cause serious and even fatal injuries to stock. However, time and weather extremes take a toll on the wooden corrals, and eventually a full replacement is needed when patch-jobs are no longer adequate.
For a week in late September, 2012, 18 hardy and dedicated volunteers rebuilt the Lake Corral. The project started with the demolition of the old corral post-and-rail fencing and feed bunks, and continued with the installation of 109 posts and 950 linear feet of buck-and-rail corral fencing that better deters wildlife. The crew also installed nine metal gates, constructed new feed bunks, and designed and built a new log archway and sign.
The volunteers -- known as ARCH Yellowstone Volunteers -- consisted of 10 ARCH Venture Partners employees and associates, led by Clint Bybee ARCH co-founder and Yellowstone Park Foundation (YPF) Advisory Council member; seven veterans from Wounded Warrior Project through Disabled Sports USA; and several National Park Service active and retired staff, including Lake maintenance staff who brought in and operated the heavy machinery.
Three of our volunteer veterans worked with us in Yellowstone last year on the West Corral project," said Clint Bybee, "and they did such a great job we are thrilled they could return. The Warriors are always hard-working, spirited, talented and inspiring additions to our volunteer team."
This is the 12th consecutive year that ARCH has performed a service project for Yellowstone, while also covering all expenses associated with the project. This year, ARCH Yellowstone Volunteers and friends donated more than $20,000 worth of supplies and equipment needed for the Lake Corral through the Yellowstone Park Foundation's Ranger Heritage Initiative.
Alice Siebecker, a retired Yellowstone ranger who was formerly stationed at Lake, coordinates food and logistics as a volunteer during the ARCH group's annual projects.
"The rangers have so many important duties to tackle each day," said Siebecker. "If it wasn't for these volunteers coming to help out each year, these corrals simply would never get replaced. It takes an enormous amount of backbreaking work to restore these horse corrals, and the group works tirelessly. It's almost unbelievable that it all gets done in just a few days, and the Park staff is ever so grateful."
Upper right and lower right photos by Alice Siebecker; Upper left and lower left photos by Bril Flint


text:
Bobby Abreu
Career w/Phillies: .303 AVG / 195 HR / 814 RBI / 254 SB
In 1997, the Phillies traded longtime shortstop Kevin Stocker to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. In return, the Phils received outfielder Bob Abreu, a soon-to-be 24-year-old roster filler who performed invisibly for the Astros a year previously. Abreu was selected by the Rays in the expansion draft, but that same day Tampa thought they wouldn't need a potential fifth outfielder candidate. Little did they know who Abreu would become. The Phils, however, would reap those benefits.
Abreu would run off a nine-year career where he'd break .300 six times. He'd break 100 runs six times. Somehow he'd break 100 runs batted in five more times as a Phillie. To be short, Abreu was a complete offensive machine. His specialty was getting on base. Only once during his Phillie career did he finish under .400 in OBP, and that was a .393 mark in 2001, still pretty good. That's because the patient Abreu walked frequently — he averaged about 105 walks per season as a Phillie. Also a consistent hitter, he averaged close to 175 hits per year.
Abreu's considerable power was at its best in 2001 (31 HR) and 2004 (30). That season might be his best — he earned his first of two All-Star berths, and a Silver Slugger while finishing third in the NL in steals with a career-high 40. The next season Abreu made a second consecutive All-Star team and rewarded Phillie fans with maybe his most memorable moment: Swatting more than 40 home runs in the Home Run Derby, setting a then-derby record.
Other memorable moments? Remember Abreu's dribbler that beat Aaron Heilman and the Mets in April 2006? Or his game-winning inside-the-park home run in 2000 against the Giants — one of 15 game-winning inside-the-park homers in baseball history.
But that derby moment stands out because Abreu played for some bad teams. Only later in his Phillie career did he play on better teams, but Abreu's three postseason opportunities came with different teams, and all were quick exits. In the field Abreu was mediocre, to say the least, but somehow earned a Gold Glove in 2005. There are also some who say the Phils only became a great team when they traded Abreu in 2006. Is it true? Hard to actually admit it, but to be blunt, Abreu was considered the team's star late in his Phillie days. He could never be the go-to guy, but he was absolutely an offensive juggernaut. Two-time 30-30 player. Seven-time 20-20 player.
Comment: Argue about Abreu's placement, but glance at those numbers. Simply awesome. Abreu was wildly consistent and produced a career arc that most players would salivate over. His power came as he hit his prime, yet his .300 average remained in tact. He could run, he could hit, he could score, he could play passable defense. Considering Abreu had his best years while Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Vladimir Guerrero and others tore up baseball, one might say Abreu will be looked upon as one of the great underrated players in baseball history. But even simpler: Abreu is absolutely one of the greatest Phillies in history. He opens the top 10.
82 Comments
One of my favorite Phills ever, I think this pick will tick some people off but Jimmy Rollins and Utley and Howard have not played as long as Abreu, just keep that in mind. They are better but they need to prove that over the same length Abreu has.
Aberu's numbers speak for themselves, but this is way to high of a placement for him. At some point you need to consider things outside of statistics. Abreu was definitely a great player for us but I would not include him in the top ten. I do admit that one can argue this placement based off statistics only, which is fine, but I would not place him here because he was never THAT guy for us. Its tough to explain, but I'm sure people will agree with me. With all that said I liked Abreu, and I hope he does well in LA this year.
ugh…we knew it was coming and it's still tough to swallow, young Tim. sort of like that cleanse you have to drink in order to pass a drug test. that stuff is disgusting.
he was great, I guess. I just can't believe I've spent all my years rooting for a team where Bobby Freakin' Abreu is the 10th best player of all time. Maybe I'm just mad at the Phils' history….?
Abreu was never the best player on the team and yet has been placed above all of his teammates. If this was a fantasy baseball list, I may agree.
Tim, he played a half season more in Philly than Rollins has. But Rollins has 2 gold gloves (please no one bring up the fraud gold glove that Abreu won), an MVP award, and he led this team to a world series. Rollins also plays one of the most important positions on the field. Just comparing them side by side right now, you can't say that Abreu was a better Phillie than Rollins. You just wanted to get a rise out of this.
Bobby Abreu is the poster boy for the old school "He's not a winner, he's not clutch" vs. the new school "look at that OBP!" argument.
As hard as this may be to swallow for some, I think Tim's placement is very defensible.
Bobby Abreu is the all-time Phillies leaders in on-base percentage. I know he has a rap from many, including Howard Eskin, of being an empty stats kind of player. But stats are stats, and Bobby did get on base…a lot.
I also must say that, at the time, his amazing performance in the Home Run Derby was a great moment, at least to me. For a fan whose teams hadn't won anything…in years…it was nice to finally have someone win something.
Looking back, Bobby Abreu had fantastic numbers for the Phillies. No doubt, he is one of the most talented and consistent hitters in the team history. Although I would place him slightly behind Rollins, I cannot argue with this placement too much.
This is the "100 Greatest Phillies" not the "100 Greatest Teammates or Leaders." And although we all value the 1980 and 2008 Championship squads and the players that made them tick, Abreu was a fabulous piece of the Phillies in the late 90s and the opening years of this decade.
.303 AVG, nearly 200 HR, 200+ SB
section 113 how are you gonna say that Rollins hasnt played as long as Abreu? Rollins deserves this spot
Jim Bunning is a hall of famer and has his number retired as a Phillie (one of only 8 Phillies, excluding Jackie Robinson to have their number retired)… I could have stomached that.
Sliding Billy Hamilton is a hall of famer… with the limited Phils in the hall of fame, that would have been alright with me.
Sherry Magee played two more years and put up comparable numbers in a deadball era… top 10 would have been ok by me.
Cy Williams… the only guy to hit 200 HR before Ruth did. Would have been ok with that selection, too.
Jimmy Rollins has 3 AS, a SS, an MVP trophy and 2 gold gloves at the most valuable defensive position in baseabll… his numbers are comparable except for walks (Bobby A sure knows how to walk to first). Oh yeah, and that World Series trophy. I could have stomached that.
Del Ennis, Curt Schilling, Gavvy Cravath…
My anti-Abreu bias is obviously showing. I love the list and I have been very appreciative of all of the history that has been brought to life by presenting it… HOWEVER it is tough for me to sit back and hear you say that there aren't 10 players in Philadelphia history better than Bobby Abreu… say what you want, he's a loser. If he wasn't, someone would have picked up the 35 year-old outfielder/DH for more than a 1 year $5 million deal.
I think the people that say "he wasnt a leader, and never won, and was never clutch" is actually the reason why he is not in the top 5. he had way better numbers than his whiteness and i assume that he has yet to make this list. why is he ahead of him, his leadership abilitiy.
Abreu as a TOP TEN PHILLIE?!?! SACRILEGE!
LA? Oh yeah – Los Angeles Angels Of Anahiem – GEEZ LOUISE! – good luck in Anahiem Bobby
For all the people who say rollins deserves this spot more.
Abreu(w/ phillies) – 144
Rollins – 99 OPS+
That means, offensively speaking, abrue has played 50%(!) better than rollins. rollins , according to his ops, has been a below average (ill be it by 1 point) hitter in his career.
mind you, rollins started off very slow, and has picked it up, give rollins some time and he may bump abreu from the top ten. he makes up for it defensivley, something abrue never did (though he had an arm)
i think these stats speak for themselves
If you compare them, Abreu is miles ahead of Rollins offensively during his Phillies career. Check it out:
He won't be top 10 in another 10 years, he'll be more like 14 or so. At the moment, I'm ok with this. The whole point of top 10(+) lists is to spark discussion anyway.
Hey, at least he's No.10 and not 7 or 8!
There is more to baseball than stats. Abreu was king of the meaningless stats. If you need a clutch hit, stolen base, or defense, Bobby was very lacking. He did know how to take a walk, even when they needed him to Hit in that situation. He is the posterboy for the late 90's when we were a lousy team. It's easier to get stats when the other teams are kicking the tar out of you.
Bobby Abreu deserves high placement on this list. He suffers from making the game look easy and perhaps he paces himself. He suffered a broken leg early in his career, but has been fairly injury-free most of his career. His stats are stunning and that is an important part of baseball. I believe he was largely run out of town by that idiot commentator Howard Eskin, who never liked Abreu and made a point of campaigning against him.
Rollins is a Gold Glove player… who turned it on in meaningful games and carried this team to the postseason
Abreu is good.. but like someone else said, this ain't fantasy baseball.. but this is Tim's list.. I happen to disagree with Abreu over Rollins
The problem with Abreu was that he's a good player… not a great player, and he didn't have a ton of talent around him all the time, though he did have Rollins, Rolen, Burrell, Thome, etc… at different points..
When they needed him to be the #1 guy, he couldn't do it.. he'd rather walk than drive in the winning run..
Rollins, MVP, Gold GLoves (Abreu winning one was a joke), NL East crowns, World Series Champions… Rollins is HANDS DOWN a "Greater Phillie" than Abreu
Abreu was a good hitter and had legitimate arm strength in the outfield, however, those instances by the outfield wall at the end of his Phillie career still drive me crazy.
The Phillies improved by subtracting his lackadaisical attitude and approach to the game when they traded him for next to nothing, If he was such a great player, where was his trade value? Giving him the designation of #10 has to mean he was a GREAT player even at the end of his Phillie career. Good riddance
When they needed him to be the #1 guy, he couldn't do it.. he'd rather walk than drive in the winning run..
Well Said Don
…that summarizes his attitude and phillie career
Agree with everything you're saying, Don. He's never going to carry a team into the postseason… he doesn't have that in him.
If I had to come up with a pecking order of important characteristics for determining an all franchise list, it would probably look like this:
1. Tenure 2. Personal accolades/historical importance 3. Championships 4. Cumulative Statistics 5. Intangibles 6. Average/Per year statistics
Eskin is the king of all d-bags. I saw him at a Phillies game one time (lower level, right field) and he just seems so pompous… it was a great game and he got up and left in the 6th or 7th inning. I booed his ass… and I don't usually do that (to normal fans… I have three kids so I understand that things happen) but I just couldn't resist.
Salivating career arc "Old School vs New School" poster boy. Now that is artful. You can't argue very affectively against the prolonged top tier offensive consistency. But it doesn't feel right that an uninspirational player like Abreu is in the top 10. Most of the players mentioned in the Chuck P post should have placed higher than Abreu.
should have put him at #11… he doesn't deserve top 10 and NOBODY will have guessed the complete top 10 list in order. great numbers with the phils, but never helped them compete.
Here are some statistics… my anti-Abreu clearly getting the best of me… maybe this is a witch hunt…. it's probably not a fair indication of the type of player he was but it validates my feelings in some way:
Bobby Abreu's career batting average in the 9th inning… .256
Bobby Abreu's career batting average in extra innings…. .237
1 HR/32 AB's in the 9th inning (career average: 1HR/27 AB's)
1 HR/38 AB's in extra innings
With 2 outs, his numbers are worse than they are with 0 and 1 out (.286 BA and .454 SLG… career numbers are .300 and .498)
His worst months March/April (understandable) and September… inexcusable.
His BA and power numbers against Mets and Braves (especially ATL) are lower than his career numbers.
Abreu was good for getting hits when it didn't matter! If the Phils were down 10-0, he'd hit a solo shot or hit a bases clearing double. When it counted he didnt' hit and he was even a worse fielder. I don't recall him being clutch at all! Is Kenny Lofton making the list too?
No doubt his numbers put him in the top 10.
But some players are not the important pieces that help you win games.And clearly Abreu was not a key piece.
The proof is in this offseason's outfield selection of Ibanez.If Abreu was so valuable,we would have had him here for less money.Even though he is a right feilder ,Im sure Werth could have played left.
Abreu just wasnt a championship piece and the phils know it.
I totally forgot that Bobby wasn't mentioned.
One more good year from Utley, Howard, and J-Roll, and all 3 of them should knock Abreu off the top 10!!
just about.
Shane just got an RBI for team USA to put them in the lead 2-1 vs. Puerto Rico (elimination game!)
No flippin' way. I don't even think top 20. Current players Howard and Rollins will surpass Bobby bare effort- the last 3 years as a Phillies he stopped playing hard- that is why they gave him away. Better than HOF Bunning -no. He is not even better than Tony Taylor's 2000 hits. Luzinski had a greater impact and those old time HOF- even Johnny Calison. Top 10 I'm afraid not.
Bobby Abreu was a 20/20 player for 7+ yrs. That's beyond impressive.
I stated before while he will be passed Abreu is in the top 10 of most offensive categories.
ANd as for clutch, he was clutch up until that last yr or so. THe problem with Abreu is that he was thought of a prime leader and player when really he was just a great all around player and role player. He was not THAT guy and we look down on him for it but we shouldn't. I mean neither was Pat Burrell BUT we all love him for helping us win, I totally believe if the Phills had Abreu here over Pat with our lineup, we could have won and we would have looked at Burrell and ABreu very differently.
THough I love Abreu, Schilling was more important to this team than Abreu, those who think Schill isn't a HOF are just foolin themselves.
Stat guy who cared about his stats. The best selfsih player in Phils history but cant be top 10 when we now have 2 world seies champs.
Clutch?????????????? As stated, one of his biggest hits in a Phillies uniform was a dribbler to Aaron Heilman. The difference between abreu and burrell is that burrell would swing the bat with the game on the line. Abreu would walk and let the mike lieberthal end the game.
Man the day Bobby left the Phillies, I had a party at my house. Top ten, please….Not even a top 100. He was a piler and a horrible outfielder. Soft soft soft. Whatch out for the fence bobby.
let's just call this list what it is at this point "100 Phillies with Best Career Team Stats & Randy Lerch"… because "100 Greatest Phillies" is very misleading with a list that slights so many actual greats but puts abreu in the top 10.
did not see that one coming
I stopped paying attention once my name popped up.
Abreu should be ranked between 20 and 30 somewhere for all the reasons previously stated above by those who do not agree with Tim's rating.
didnt rowand hit the dribbler down the 3rd base line vs. the heilman
I think stat wise, Abreu deserves the top 10 nod. What makes him different from Rollins or Utley, isn't his stats. When Utley loses, you can tell it doesn't sit well with him. You can see in his eyes that he is bothered by any loss. Same with Jimmy. When Abreu lost, he would hop into his Red Ferrari, and drive 90mph up the turnpike, back to his Manhattan high rise. He didn't care win or lose. Although I agree stat wise that Abreu is a top ten Phil, I wouldn't have put him there. I would have put him at 11 just on principle alone.
One other thing, look at picture of Abreu in 2000 and then look at him in 01, 02, and 03. I think he was taking his magic vitamins. He was always a consistent hitter, but his power numbers ballooned with his head.
I just love how we can all hate on Abreu for not being "that guy". While I agree whole heartedly and I DO think him leaving benefited or changed the team for the better, he is still deserving of being a top Philly. Maybe not top 10 of all time, but for position players, yes he is definitely a top all time Philly.
However, we ALL LOVE Nails for taking his "vitamins" and leading us to a WS. He never stayed healthy for us and basically stole money at the end of his career because he never played, but he gets a pass.
Me and many here on this board love Myers' competitiveness but he's a scum bag for beating a woman. I'll always like him as a player, but he's a scum bag. Daulton too, but hey they got us to a WS so they get a pass. Yet people on here say there's more to a person than stats? Really? Do we believe Rose NEVER bet against the team he was on? Why? Because he old the truth so many times before to us? I don't and there is no proof he didn't bet against the Phills, and for as much and as long as he lied to us he needs to prove he's telling the truth. I have seen drunks who can't control themselves and do very dumb things and hurt people. I have seen the same with gamblers, I wouldn't put it past him.
Abreu constantly tried to get into scoring position to help this team out. Was he the greatest defensive player ever? Hell no! He's afraid of walls. Ok. He had a good arm and enough speed to cover up everything else.
Considering how conservative Bunning is in the Senate, I am sure there are a few of us, at least 50%, who would not be buddies and think highly different of the guy if we knew him. There's more to players than just stats right?
Burrell vetoed a possible trade to benefit this team, yet we love him because he won. He was such a dog at times and heard it from the phans, yet he get's a pass, because he was here in '08. I guess everyone on '08/'80 should make up the top 50 and than any HOFers and then guys like Abreu, because I guess you are all right, stats don't matter.
If the technology and mass media was like it is now back then, I am sure our opinion of these guys would be vastly different. How much of an impact did Tugger have on us after his playing days in Philly? A ton, and I am sure that goes into judging him as well. Even if we don't think it does, we still subconsciously do it.
Well I'll let you in on a secret, the reason why guys like Jeter/JRoll/Wright piss other fans off is because they are so special. They have the ability and gusto. If everyone played like them they wouldn't be special. All I know is it takes a pretty damn good player to hit .300 for his career over the course of 13 seasons. A pretty damn good player, regardless of leadership or intangibles.
Abreu's stats with RISP are good. His OBP was VERY good. People got made he took too many walks. My GOD people how many times have we seen Burrel/Howard/even Jroll out of the leadoff spot not work the count one bit? Howard, the best power hitter in this franchises' history, is booed here yet we get mad at Abreu because he put up stats? Some guys aren't leaders. He was unfortunately a role player who put up, unfortunately for him, very good offensive numbers.
Some players have the stats but not the intangibles, some have the intangibles but not the stats, some have both but can never stay healthy. Should we handicap everyone not affiliated with '08/'08 because they never won?
***I think the biggest gripes about this list to me could have been corrected with just 2 things:
1st make a cut off date. Pick the earliest HOF of the Phills, and any player around his time or after him are eligible.
2nd, more importantly, NO CURRENT Philly should have been eligible. Burrel/Schilling yes, Howard/Utley/JRoll/ect NO. This would eliminate a ton of problems and allow us to better view where we could see these players be in terms of the franchise's all time greatest. Also this would allow more flexibility with the list, even though it does exist as is, with the names in there it just creates more problems.
If anything, I tended to group numbers together. I didn't see player #33 better than #34, I just grouped the players by tens or fives. This was rather long response, sorry about that.
This selection proves youre a stat geek and not a true evaluator of baseball talent. You rip Howard, but you love the stat machine Abreu. He goes to the Yankees and they miss the playoffs…..not conicidental.
JASON B —> Yeah a guy whose power decreased after 31 and never topped out over 31 is a huge poster boy for roids but a loveable short stop with MVP and WS ring who hit nearly as many HRs in a 2 yr span ('06-'07) than in the 5 yrs preceeding it is clean as a whistle.
14, 11, 8, 14, 12, 25, 30, 11
17, 20, 25, 31, 20, 20, 30, 24, 15, 16, 20
BRET —> the Yanks also made the playoffs with Abreu in '06 & '07.
And he was a HUGE contributor to that team in '06. Shows you are such a knowledgeable baseball fan I guess.
I think Howard gets a bad rap actually. I have season tickets and he gets booed for striking out. Yet we get on him of he doesn't hit a HR every day. WOnder why some people take roids I guess.
I am actually not a stats lover at all, I call it how I see it. People liek to get on Abreu's case but never dare knock Dykstra or Burrell anymore because they got us to a WS. I liked to Abreu not because I am a big stat geek but because he was so patient at the plate and he had a really nice fluid swing. It was a sweet swing.
Bret, you realize stats are good, correct? In fact, I might actually say they're the best evaluators of talent, you know?
By the way, Mike Schmidt was never a leader. You all gonna bitch about him being in the top 10?
Section 113: Best swing I've ever seen. But you know, I've only been alive for 24 years. So my opinion means little.
You want new school? I'll give you new school…
Player 1:
WAR (wins above replacement)–29.3
Player 2:
Player 3:
Player 1: Rollins
Player 2: Abreu
Player 3: Luzinski
Abreu's way ahead, performance-wise. Now if you want to judge players by things other than performance–which is fine by me, to an extent, after all, we're talking "Greatest Phillies" not "Best Stats"–than his perceived attitude problems are an issue. But come on, it's not like he played on great teams. Is it his fault if he takes a walk and there's nobody behind him who can drive him in?
I'm also not a big fan of the idea that trading him was like lifting some sort of curse. If that's true then what about Thome?
ED—> Good stat…I mean stats are bad.
I actually think signning Thome was HUGE for the franchise. It showed they would pony up money and that was the beginning of taking the team in the right direction. THough it hit a few bumps along the way (Garcia/Eaton/Millwood) we still got a ton of hope ou tof that signning.
Bobby was indeniably talented…his swing is picturesque. His eye is one of the best in the game. I can't put him in my top 10 because he lacks so much of the other stuff that makes a player special… I won't do it. Hamels' Left Hand made a good point… it might be because I'm so angry that a player like Bobby Abreu can even be considered. Say what you want, he's not an all-franchise player on almost any other team.
This pretty much sums up Bobby Abreu to me:
"Baseball statistics are like a girl in a bikini. They show a lot, but not everything." ~Toby Harrah, 1983
or the more recent:
"Statistics are like bikinis. They show a lot, but never everything."
–Lou Piniella
Jayson Stark (does anyone NOT like Jayson Stark?)…he's been loyal to the Phillies and Phillies' fans over the years, and in 2007 he listed his Top 10- Most Overrated Players in Baseball (Active Players):
1. Barry Zito
2. JD Drew
3. Andruw Jones
4. Juan Pierre
6. Brian Giles
7. Alfonso Soriano
8. Richie Sexson
9. Bob Wickman
10. Jeff Suppan
On Bobby Abreu:
"Boy, do people love arguing about this fellow. Who can blame them?
The folks who only peruse Abreu's numbers don't just wonder what he's doing on this list. They wonder when he's getting inducted into the Hall of Fame. How multitalented is Bobby Abreu? Well, he does happen to be the only active player with a .300 career batting average, a .400 on-base percentage, 200 homers and 250 stolen bases. And his .909 career OPS tops the OPS of Sammy Sosa, Chase Utley, Derrek Lee and many, many, many other famed batsmiths out there.
But there sure are a lot of people who watched him in Philadelphia who think Abreu is the poster boy for an unquantifiable division of the All-Overrated Team — players who mysteriously seem to be less than the sum of their spectacular numbers.
When people battle me on this guy, I always sum it up this way: As great as Bobby Abreu can be, he lacks that all-important Derek Jeter gene. There is no voice in his head, screaming: "This ball has to be caught." Or: "That runner on third has to be driven in." In Philadelphia, where he was the centerpiece of the franchise, that one flaw showed up way too glaringly. Now, in New York, as the Yankees flounder, they're getting aggravated over the same stuff. Funny how that happens. "
DON M—> "When people battle me on this guy, I always sum it up this way: As great as Bobby Abreu can be, he lacks that all-important Derek Jeter gene. There is no voice in his head, screaming: "This ball has to be caught." Or: "That runner on third has to be driven in." In Philadelphia, where he was the centerpiece of the franchise, that one flaw showed up way too glaringly. Now, in New York, as the Yankees flounder, they're getting aggravated over the same stuff. Funny how that happens. ""
As an Abreu lover I agree for the most part, though I think he wasn't as clutchless as we all think he was. Still my whole point is he wasn't a center peice, we tried to make him one. For what he was, he was a spectacular player. There are currently 3 players in Philly…4 if Hamels can saty healthy (all home grown too) that will have much better careers than Abreu but his stats are undeniably impressive. Stats aren't everything, but we also tend to make players out to be more than what they are. Sometimes they live up to that hype, sometimes they surpass it, and sometimes they fall short. Abeu was a very good player who fell short on the hype.
A question to any of you: If there were no current Phills listed here, would you think differently on the placement of people like Abreu? Or at least not be as harsh on him? Granted some of you wanting to put him in the 30+ range is a little crazy, still I think the current rosters' attachment is also interferring with some of our judgement, for better or worse.
I just think that you need to look at what was the outcome of this person's great play..
Military Generals are GREAT if they lead their troops to victory… maybe they weren't the best actual leaders, but if you got the job done, that to me is better than the guy that didn't lead his troops home..
a little of the wall there, but my point is that in Phillies History… Rollins should be viewed as "better" and "more productive" and whatever other words you want to use… Abreu is a better defender than people give him credit for, people knock him because he didn't run into walls… but he was able to play everyday because he played "smart"
Rollins plays everyday too, but he does every single thing you ask of him.. Abreu would have been a great leadoff hitter, but his RBIs would go down so he didn't want to hit leadoff… but late in the game, when you needed those RBIs.. he would make sure to work that walk and get himself on base!!!
I wouldn't think differently… Jimmy Rollins was the only active Phillie that I considered above Abreu, right now… the other guys have a long way to go. Anything can happen in any given season… they could end up playing their entire careers somewhere else and that would change things dramatically, wouldn't it? Right now, they're all on track but Bobby's 8 years of service as a Phillie is enough for me to rank him higher than them… HOWEVER… there were plenty of guys with solid years and personal accolades that I would rank higher than Abreu. Now, that could change when Abreu retires becuase, although he's not a Phillie, he's still an active player. Post retirement, his number (doubtedly) could be retired… his likeness could end up in Cooperstown… those things would change my opinion and would move him higher on my list. Those things matter… they carry a great amount of historical significance. Right now, Bobby still has work to do to make his case. And that's my list… this is Tim's and his placement is his prerogative.
I think that's a good point. Bobby Abreu has been a great player but lacks greatness which is what I think hurt him in free agency, seems clubs don't really know how to value him especially since he was a very good outfielder in a time of some even better outfielders.
Was really sad to see Bobby go when he was traded to the Yankees but it was one of those cases of addition by subtraction. He was the face of a Phillies team at a very disappointing time for the franchise and wasn't one of those guys who made the guys around him better, that said he deserves to be held in the same breath as many great Phillies but personally I'm not sure I'd have had him up this high and a couple of dozen spots separated from Lieberthal who I think was undervalued just as much.
Bobby Abreu… Cooperstown???? That's the funniest joke I've heard all day so far, thanks!!
The only way Bobby Abreu ends up in Cooperstown is if it turns out every outfielder ahead of him in the pecking order turns out to be juiced up and even then those guys dogs have a better chance. Abreu's chances are slimmer than Moyer who will be in the conversation but is an extreme long-shot. Abreu's would be on a par right now with Andruw Jones and boy that aint happening now.
BY the numbers…
Maybe everyone is familiar with Baseball reference… they have a couple of HOF monitors. They also list players comparable by age… Abreu is likened to a few HOF'ers and could be HOF'ers (notably, Earl Averill, George Brett and Dave Parker). His HOF monitor is 86 (where, over 100 apparently gets you in) and his HOF standards is 46 (where close to 50 gets you in). A few more good years and Abreu's numbers will be HOF worthy.
CHUCK P—> Fair, I don't think he's a HOF. But i get what you are saying.
DON M—> I guess Ty Cobb, Ted Williams, Arod, Ryan Sandberg, Don Mattingly, Vlad are all horrible becasue they didn't win the big one but guys like Chad Durbin, So Taguchi, and Matt Stairs are amazing? Championships help but they shouldn't be the only factor.
"Military Generals are GREAT if they lead their troops to victory… maybe they weren't the best actual leaders, but if you got the job done, that to me is better than the guy that didn't lead his troops home.."
Really? Or is it because history is written by the winners and not by the losers? Is it because we are just happy with the outcome that we can just look over the faults? Remember, George Washington is basically to England what Benedict Arnold is to America.
What did Abreu have when he was here? I mean everyone says he was never that guy but the franchise never did anything to help him until they got Thome. I mean he was here 6+ years before that. They let Schilling go/Rolen go/ they had an atrocious farm. Maybe he wasn't our great hero like JRoll, but maybe it wasn't because he was overrated, maybe because it was that he was a different type of player. It's hard to lead when you aren't a leader.
Section 113- You can't put Abreu in the same breat as Cobb or Williams or even A-Rod… Mattingly is more comparable but injuries crippled his chances of landing in the hall.
Linking numbers can miss the plot, Abreu was near but not at the top of his era which has been a very stats friendly era for potentially HOFers. I don't see how he'd even stand a chance against guys like Biggio, Bagwell or even Sosa and against guys not yet retired no chance against Vlad, Sheffy, Kent etc.
It is hard to lead when you aren't a leader… and how can you be cosidered an "All-Time Great" and "Not a Leader" at the same time?
Hall Of Fame players are supposed to be the guys that are All-Stars, MVPs, Gold Glove, Triple Crown, etc.. players for about a decade…
Bobby Abreu isn't one of the best players of the past decade… his numbers say he's good, but he's not one of the great ones.
Ty Cobb is a lifetime .366 hitter
Ted Williams is a lifetime .344 hitter
Ryne Sandberg hit .285, but was the best Offensive 2b for a decade
Mattignly was great from like 1984-1989, not a Hall of Famer in my book
Vladdy is a .323 hitter, and one of the best/cluth/most underrated players in baseball since his Rookie of the Year in 1997
A-Rod is a great.. but you think he would be above say Derek Jeter on an All-Time Yankees list?
NJ—> I am not arguing about Abreu and the HOF and comparing him to Cobb as a player. Don M said players who have won it, Gererals who have taking there team home so to speak, are thought of more highly. So if anything, he diminished Cobb, not me. All I said was you can't hold Abreu to that as leaders like Cobb/Mattingly/Biggio who were actual leaders. All I was trying to do was list players who were/ar superior to Abreu and never won a ring. And we don't knock them at all.
By the way if people want to complain about Abreu not leading off where is the out cry about Biggio holding on to get 3,000 hits. That team needed to rebuild but couldn't let him go. Just remember that there is more than 2 sides to every issue.
Don M–>
I like Abreu and can even agree that he got a long leash here in Philly, he was never that guy who won us anything, and for that it was disappointing, TRUST ME, I wanted him to get us to the playoffs so bad.
But at the same time he put up stats that many can and will never do. How many franchises can say they had a player in his prime for 8 yrs and when that player retired he had a .300 avg/ .400 obp???? Not many that's for sure.
Also to be clear — I DON'T think Abreu is a HOFer. Unless he gets 3,000 (1,054 away) and keeps his avg around if not higher than .300. If he gets 3,000 hits but his avg falls to .270-.280 he shouldn't be a HOFer.
Any comparison between Ty Cobb and Bobby Abreu is ridiculous to begin with..
my point was that, to me… an All-Star, Gold Glove, MVP type player in Rollins, who lead the team to the postseason, and the World Series
Is more important in Phillies history than Bobby Abreu, who put up some nice stats for a few years, but didn't ever want to carry the team on his shoulders
Granted the World Series isn't the final determining factor.. but I'd say they are about a toss-up.. and Rollins' postseason success gives him the distinct edge over Abreu
Abreu isn't even close to a Biggio in my mind, multiple Gold Gloves (that were actually deserved) and All-Star appearances.
but the main difference is that Biggio is the guy wanted the bat in his hands with the game on the line.. Abreu wanted to be standing on First Base already, having just improved his OBP% with that Ball-4.
Section 113 says~ "…more importantly, NO CURRENT Philly should have been eligible. Burrel/Schilling yes, Howard/Utley/JRoll/ect NO. This would eliminate a ton of problems and allow us to better view where we could see these players be in terms of the franchise's all time greatest. Also this would allow more flexibility with the list, even though it does exist as is, with the names in there it just creates more problems. "
I made that argument to Tim a few times early on. However, while I'm in disagreement with MANY of his ranked choices, I'll echo the same comment by several here that it's Tim's list. I don't take this list seriously as some do but rather that I enjoy reading some historical notes on great players of several generations past. And I do appreciate that Tim has given much time and effort in research for this list. Obviously, as Tim mentioned his age (24) which one can consider it as a handicap (smile) in evaluating players as recently as 25 years ago, he has to rely on statistics and eyewitness accounts from writers of past. Tim is part of the sabermetrics community who believes they have the best method of accurate evaluation when comparing players of different eras. I won't argue with their method inspite of reading certain articles by writers that suggest there are flaws (such as OPS vs OBP) in such evaluation. Sabermetrics is a welcome addition and there is a need for it but shouldn't be consider the "bible" of all statistical methods.
I would be redundant in pointing out other considerations (including the intangibles) as so many here expressed those thoughts. So let's just respect and enjoy reading his notes on players of his choice and keep in mind his perspective as a fan.
Biggio was pretty bad early in his career in the playoffs, Actually I believe except for that crazy series against Atl in 2005 and maybe 1 other yr, he was horrible in the playoffs.
I'd be willing to bet that stat wise their "close and late" and RISP over their 8 yr primes are close.
ALSO Biggio had Bagwell on his team. And for a couple years he had Alou, Bell, and Berkman. Who did Abreu have? Pat I will just look at strike 3 Burrell or maybe Scott I can't wait to get out of here Rolen.
And while I always liked Biggio, nothing pissed me off more when he dragged himself out there every year trying to creap closer to 3,000 hits while just being a shadow of his former self. Yeah he score 100 runs, but he couldn't hit for avg anymore and slowed down a ton.
Okay, I "borrowed" the following analysis of Abreu's clutchness or lack thereof from here:
And no, I don't really care what Jayson Stark, Toby Harrah, and Lou Piniella have to say if it conflicts with the facts. One of the consistent themes in the rise of sabermetrics has been that smart guys who've been around baseball forever can be totally wrong when it comes to evaluating players. The numbers show that Abreu was a very good player, and that he didn't fail in the clutch.
This all goes back to an old problem. Not only in Philadelphia, but especially true in Philadelphia, is the fact that fans like players who look like they're working hard and squeezing every last ounce out of their talent. Abreu never looked that way, so he ended up with a bad reputation.
So he didn't want to run into the wall? Big deal. Call me strange, but I like the idea of my best players staying healthy. Sure, I love and appreciate the Rowand-breaks-his-face story, but I didn't love the aftermath when the team had to go without him because he was intent on showing his desire and toughness.
So he wasn't a leader? Again, big deal. Who could have been a leader with a sociopath like Bowa managing? And what was he supposed to do when Manuel came, turn into a leader all of a sudden? That's what we bought Thome for, isn't it? Also, how was he supposed to lead a team when management was already starting to show the disdain that would get him traded to the Yanks for a handful of non-magic beans? Also, does anyone believe that Jimmy Rollins is going to be led by anyone other than Jimmy Rollins? How was Abreu supposed to lead a team when a really prominent player like Rollins was clearly unwilling to listen to any good advice?
I'm happy to agree that Abreu deserves to be knocked for not wanting to bat leadoff. That's certainly selfish, and bad for the team. Let's remember, though, that Rollins, who had a really crappy OBP, didn't want to bat anywhere else.
I noticed some people saying that Bobby Abreu isn't clutch. I figured it would make sense to put some numbers behind it to see if it's just a perception that caught on or if it's true.
Reader Bill already weighed in with Abreu's September batting averages in a different post, so I'll begin by expanding on that to include Abreu's full AVG/OBP/SLG lines in recent Septembers.
First, his career line: .303/.411/.512. Can't complain about that.
September 2005: .250/.395/.396
September 2004: .326/.483/.500
September 2003: .308/.432/.407
September 2002: .366/.455/.591
OK, it looks like his power numbers were way down this season and in '03 in September. But when you're looking at a sample of 100 at-bats each year, and he has alternated between an excellent and subpar SLG, is it really statistically significant? I don't think so. Plus, with OBPs like that, it's not as if he tanked.
How about everyone's favorite Close and Late stats? Close and Late refers to when the game is in the 7th inning or later and is a one run affair or tied.
Close and Late '05: .298/.422/.571
Close and Late '04: .255/.445/.412
Close and Late '03: .318/.423/.420
Close and Late '02: .303/.444/.495
First off, no one can complain that Abreu wasn't clutch in 2005 overall. He had a two-year run where his power numbers were down in late game situations, but does that really make him "unclutch?" Maybe Abreu focused on drawing a walk or hitting a single instead of going for the fences. His OBPs were all above his career average.
Finally, let's see where Abreu stands with runners in scoring position.
He's consistently destroyed pitchers in every way with runners in scoring position.
Some analysts don't believe clutch hitting even exists, and the inconsistencies in this one sample seem to support that. Regardless, there's no clear conclusion that Bobby Abreu is "not clutch."
So Abreu is the most clutch "Non Team Leader" in Phillies history.. nice!
Abreu has a minimal impact on Phillies history when compared to Jimmy Rollins.. and maybe that is a seperate list or something, but when I think of Great, I don't think of Bobby Abreu
Good, yea…. Very Good, yea… GREAT? No…
ALL RANK HIGHER THAN ABREU: Ennis, Bunning, Magee, Hamilton, Luzinski, Gravath, Schilling, Callison, Cy Williams & Rollins.
you have absolutely killed the credibility of this site by putting abreu at #10.
I tend to agree with Woodman and the Abreu skeptics. I do see Bobby as a very good, never great player. Never had "it", never had buzz, never seemed to play with fire, never really connected with me as a fan. Put him in the Hall of Very Good. I respect the quiet producer thing about him, and I love the stats, but his utter lack of signature moments has to hurt him (aside from the HR Derby). I could see the argument for Top 20 (maybe just ahead of Burrell, 22, and Callison, 20); maybe Top 15 (hard to believe though); Top 10 you're talking Phillies royalty, and I think that's an awkward fit. It's a shame he put up such monster numbers on bad teams (though by 2004, 2005, we were in contention). As Griffin said, through a modern lens (OBP, power/speed numbers, etc.), he certainly looks great compared to players from other eras, etc. He was not, however, a consistent league leader in anything however, never really a solid MVP candidate (vs. Cravath for example). Some years he popped up into the Top 5 in certain categories.
Just looking at baseball-reference.com at the Abreu years… taking a look at OBP and OPS+ and any other noteworthy stats:
1998, age 24, .409 OBP (1st on team), 136 OPS+ (2nd to Rolen's 139)
1999, age 25, .446 OBP (1st on team, 3rd in NL), 146 OPS+ (1st on team), 3rd in NL in BA, 5th in runs, 1st in triples
2000, age 26, .416 OBP (1st on team), 143 OPS+ (1st on team)
2001, age 27, .393 OBP (1st on team), 141 OPS+ (1st on team), 4th in the NL in doubles and steals, 3rd in walks
2002, age 28, .413 OBP (1st on team), 151 OPS+ (1st on team, Burrell 146), 1st in doubles, this is his best OPS+ year, by comparison (the top 5 in the NL), Bonds: 268, Giles 177, Sosa 160, Guerrero 160, Edmonds 158
2003, age 29, .409 OBP (1st on team, Thome .385), 136 OPS+ (2nd on team, Thome 154)
2004, age 30, .428 OBP (1st on team, 5th in NL, Thome .396), 145 OPS+ (1st on team, Thome 144), 4th in NL in runs and doubles, 3rd in steals
2005, age 31, .405 OBP (1st on team, ahead of Lofton, Burrell, and Utley), 126 OPS+ (4th on team, behind Burrell, Utley and half season of Howard)
2006, age 32, half season, .427 OBP (1st on team, just ahead of Howard), 118 OPS+ (4th on team, behind Burrell, Utley and Howard)
He was arguably the best offensive player on the Phillies for 7-8 seasons, certainly the 5 seasons before Thome arrived in 2003. But some of those teams were awful. That was just a regrettable, forgettable stretch of seasons. (Sort of like Ibanez's production last year, a good thing in a tough situation or misleading?)
Again, compared to other Phillies he played with, he's a monster. Compared to other players in the NL at that time, he's very good, but not a Top 5, Top 10 player. And you'd think he doesn't have the longevity to rank high on career Phillie totals. But… 8th all-time in runs (tied with Del Ennis with 1000 fewer plate appearances). 7th in total bases. 3rd in doubles. 8th in HRs. 8th in RBI. 2nd in walks behind only Schmidt. 7th in steals. And modern sabermetric stats love him, too.
I think this debate may speak to two things: (1) There just aren't that many VERY GOOD offensive players in the team's long history (again Burrell ranked 22, Callison 20), so it's easy for a modern stat machine to sneak on to the all-time lists. And (2) his career Phillie numbers may not look as impressive in 5-10-15 years, so this is sort of a favorable point in time to rank Abreu.
I do respect the numbers, but I'd rank 6-8 recently mentioned guys above him.
abreu in the top ten??????? i am officially not paying any attention to the rest of this list. i'm still mad about pete rose.
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Borrowing, perhaps, from David Letterman, Yael has unveiled a "Top Ten" list of what he believes are area priorities. Near the top is the question of local control of the Kansas City Police Department. The commission studying the issue of local versus state control issued its report. Did the commission make the right decision?
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My son was born on 6-7-06. He is completely tongue-tied and I have taken him to four different pediatricians, and they will not clip his tongue. I had to use a breast shield exclusively in order to get him to latch on.
Things were okay for the first week or so, but then he wasn't gaining weight properly and he was working too hard to nurse. His pediatrician recommended that I supplement with formula and start pumping to feed him out of a bottle instead so that he won't have to work as hard to nurse and it will be easier on his tongue.
I rented a Medela Symphony pump and started pumping right away. At first I was able to pump 4-5 ounces each time. Over the next weeks, my supply severely diminished. I am now giving my son formula all the time execpt for what I can actually pump and that is at most less than a 1/2 ounce.
I desperately want to relactate because I know that breastmilk is best for him, even if it is out of a bottle.
My doctor's only advice was to get some rest and keep trying. Is there anything else that I can be doing?


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Re: Rumors-SHR interested in Carl Edwards
Smoke14TS wrote:I wonder if he might not go after Clint Bowyer. They're really good friends and lately I see more photos of those two standing together chit chatting than anybody else with Tony, even Newman.
There prob talkin about how much fun it is to drive Happy Harvick's cars in NW race's!!!


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Tony Cohen Cup final - Crumpsall vs Republic 1st
By Danny Caro, May 21, 2012
Benjy Silverman and Frenchie Freedman were the marksmen as Crumpsall stunned Republic of Mancunia 1st into submission to lift the Tony Cohen Memorial Cup. Here is the pick of the action. Photos: Chris Tofalos
Last updated: 4:25pm, May 21 2012


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My 4 month old, who is a slow gainer, now prefers the bottle the dr. told me to supplement with. He will only nurse a couple ounces now total from both sides. I'm afraid if I don't supplement though, he won't get enough. Any ideas?
My 4 month old, who is a slow gainer, now prefers the bottle the dr. told me to supplement with. He will only nurse a couple ounces now total from both sides. I'm afraid if I don't supplement though, he won't get enough. Any ideas?
You might want to get a supplemental nursing system (SNS). A SNS is a bag of milk or formula that hangs around your neck. A tube comes out of it. You position the tube alongside your nipple, and when your baby latches onto the breast, he gets the tube, too. By using a SNS, you might be able to ditch the bottles, and your baby may get used to the idea that all his nutrition comes from the breast, and start feeding more enthusiastically.
Also, you might want to start pumping. The more milk you remove from your breasts, the more you will make. That way, if you need to supplement, you can do so with breastmilk and your milk supply won't diminish. When I was trying to increase my milk supply, I pumped for 10 minutes per side after every feeding, even when nothing was coming out.
Have you tried going to bed with baby and just nursing and not really offereing a bottle and seeing what would happen? Sometimes you can get baby to start nursing better again if they have a peaceful place to nurse...little distractions and all that.
I would start pumping. I use the PIS and pretty well exclusively pump. After pumping for about 15 - 20 minutes every 3 - 4 hours, I was getting plenty of milk. So, try pumping after breastfeeding and then if you have to "supplement" you can at least supplement breastmilk.
Milk Supply Issues
Weaning From Formula Supplements
These might give you some good ideas. Trust your body and your baby!
Loving mama to JP (DS, 1/03 ~ nursed 6 mos), EL (DD1, 9/05 ~ nursed 4 yrs), EJ (DD2, 3/08 ~ nursed 3 yrs 9 mos), and
JM (DD3, 6/12 ~ currently nursing), all born naturally
Devoted wife to SAHD P, my hero
A few of my favorite things that I've discovered on the forum: co-sleeping, baby-wearing, tandem nursing, baby-led solids, cloth diapering, APing, selective vaccination...the list goes on
I went through the SAME thing with Abby. Very happy to say that I got her away from the bottle monster and she is exclusively breastfed now. So I can tell you that it IS possible to turn things around. I used a SNS for a week, and pumped to rebuild my supply. Abby's problem was that she got too used to the fast-er flow of the bottle and was lazy at the breast. She had a very weak suck. I was determined enough. I started to REFUSE the bottle. Regardless of how much she cried I would NOT give her one. I'd use the SNS and pretty much FORCED her to breastfeed. Sounds kind of harsh but it wasnt, believe me. I pumped after every feeding for the extra stimulation and once my supply came back and little Abby strengthened her suck everything suddenly became WONDERFUL!
hang in there mama!
Just curious how often baby is nursing. I found with my dd that she wouldn't fuss until she was overly hungry, and was not wanting to wait for letdown. I decided to offter the breast every 2hrs (she was 4 1/2mos at the time and is still nursing every 2-3hrs and is 6 mos now) and she was happy to take the breast, and didn't get as upset waiting for letdown. Was there an issue with the milk production that the Dr. was concerned about. Like the pp said, the more you stimulate the breast the more it will produce. I also snuck in some feedings when dd was half asleep and she nursed well then!
Not sure if you have to time nurse this often, but it worked really well for us. Good luck!


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The man killed during a home burglary call in Madison Friday morning lived in the neighborhood, according to Madison police.
Officers were called to a home in the 500 block of S. Baldwin Street at 2:46 a.m. after a woman called 911 to report hearing someone in her house. Police said the woman's husband investigated the sounds.
Police said the first officer on the scene saw two men struggling outside the home and one of the men engaged the officer in the physical confrontation.
The officer repeatedly ordered the man to get down and the man was shot by the officer, according to police.
Police said the person shot was the subject of the burglary in-progress call.
The officer involved in the shooting is a 15-year department veteran and has been placed on administrative leave, according to police.
Madison police say an officer has shot and killed a burglary suspect.
Police were called to a residence about 3 a.m. Friday on a report of a burglary in progress. When an officer arrived, there was a physical struggle with the suspected intruder.
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Police say the officer was not injured.


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Cashing In On Weight Loss
By Health Day
..through diet and exercise. But what incentives work best for obese employees? Individual programs? Or those designed to tackle obesity as a group? In a new study published in the Annals of Internal Medicine, that was the question posed: 105 participants between the ages 18 and 70 were recruited. All had a body mass index of 30 to 40. A BMI over 30 is considered obese. The participants were broken up into three groups. All were given a link to the Weight-control Information Network of the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases. They were also scheduled for monthly weigh-ins and reminded by e-mail or text to make sure they came. Group 1 was comprised of individual dieters who got no further incentives. Group 2 included individual dieters who were told that 100-dollars was being set aside for each of them and would be electronically transmitted if they met their monthly weight-loss goal.
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I'm Dr. Cindy Haines of HealthDay TV with news from today that can lead to healthy tomorrows.
Sunday, December 4, 2016, Watertown, NY


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A permanent installation of interactive, educational exhibits about Yellowstone was unveiled on October 15, 2012 at Bozeman Yellowstone International Airport. The Yellowstone Park Foundation and its partners have created Destination Yellowstone, a unique collection of inspirational and practical resources for park-bound visitors arriving at this important gateway to Yellowstone National Park. From a live view of Old Faithful, to ranger-hosted videos, to animal track casts, travelers can now begin their Yellowstone experience as soon as they land.
Destination Yellowstone is the result of a partnership between the Yellowstone Park Foundation (YPF), Yellowstone Association (YA), Bozeman Yellowstone International Airport, and Yellowstone National Park.
As Yellowstone National Park's two primary nonprofit partners, YPF provided $150,000 in funding for the exhibits, and YA provided $170,000 in funding for a retail store and information desk.
"We want Destination Yellowstone to welcome visitors to our area with entertaining and educational information that will help them have a trip of a lifetime to one of the world's most treasured places, Yellowstone National Park," said Karen Bates Kress, Yellowstone Park Foundation president.
"Destination Yellowstone is a great asset to Bozeman Yellowstone International Airport," said Yellowstone National Park Superintendent Dan Wenk, who was one of the presenters at the event. "These new exhibits will provide more understanding of Yellowstone National Park, and enrich many travelers' visits to Yellowstone."
Additional presenters representing project partners included YPF President Karen Bates Kress, YPF Special Projects Manager Matt Wren, Deputy Airport Director Scott Humphrey, and YA Director of Sales and Marketing Daniel Bierschwale. Remarks were also made by Brianne Dugan, deputy state director for Montana Senator Max Baucus, and Jennifer Madgic, field director for Montana Senator John Tester.


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