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I suppose they replaced the firewall to go from an A/C car to a non A/C car. Paul
An excellent job - Surely compounded by the fact that parts sourcing in Europe has got to be an expensive event.Congratulations to the owner/builder - beautiful car.Regards,Steve


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Pradosh, or Pradosha, is an auspicious day dedicated to Lord Shiva and it falls on the 13th day of every lunar fortnight in traditional Hindu calendar. Shiva devotees undertake a fasting from sunrise to sunset on the Pradosham day. When the Pradosh Vrata day falls on a Tuesday it is known as Bhauma Pradosh. Bhauma is another name of planet Mars or Mangal.
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UPDATE: Game five has been rescheduled for 8 p.m. Tuesday.
The Phillies had a 2-0 lead. Then the rain came down. 2-1 lead. Harder. Stronger. 2-2. Game stopped.
Major League Baseball has postponed game five due to rain at a 2-2 tie in the bottom of the sixth. Cole Hamels will lead off the game when it's re-started. Commissioner Bud Selig has not given a time for the game to begin again.
Selig also said he could've stopped the game before the bottom of the sixth, meaning the Phils could've had a 2-1 lead with the game stopped. (Of course, I don't want the Phils winning the world championship on a shortened game.) Instead, Hamels and the Phils had to play through the rain, and the Rays scored the tying run, before the game was finally halted.
Frankly, this is a black eye for baseball, and especially for Selig, who has once again proved incompetent as leader of this organization. The game should've been stopped before the sixth. Throw out the rulebook. This is the World Series. And it's ridiculous — absolutely freakin' ridiculous that this whole charade took place so late.
Forget homerism. The rain created a harsh atmosphere way before the sixth. And now the Phils have a tie game, have little momentum, and complete uncertainty as to when the game will be resumed. Some fans will be shut out of the possible clincher. Hamels may not pitch again this season. And now a huge risk is run — the Phils suddenly find themselves needing to win, and soon, because Tampa awaits. Now it's confusion ruling the roost, handled horribly by the idiot upstairs. I'm sorry Bud Selig, but you struck out this time.
Associated Press photo
134 Comments
Completely agree…wtf selig
I'm happy to be one of the first commenters here. Bud Selig, and MLB at large, did seriously drop the ball here. Aside from Joe Buck bitching about the conditions hindering the Rays ability to play 'their game' (i.e. stealing bases), with BJ Upton quickly stealing a base, this was bungled. It seems like there are too many obstacles in front of this team. Either play the game, or don't, Selig. Grow a set, and make a decision.
Okay, so WTF is going on? Are we in a delay? Or is the game officially called for the night?
If anyone can get me a job, I'd appreciate it. I'm calling out of work until they play/win and I'm going to need some new employment when I get fired.
He's either really dumb or really shady, but definitely very greedy.
Game is called. To resume TBD. We'll let you know.
Bud Selig is an idiot when it comes to making decisons like when he called the 2002 All-Star game a tie…I don't want the Phils to win on a weather delay,but the weather was horrible long before they decided to delay it they should of delayed it awhile ago and like you said now the Phils have burned their best pitcher and we don't have much momentum and the Rays have David Price ready for long relief while the Phils have guys who can't go more then one inning…Thank Bud Selig for costing us the World Series.
Dave, officially called. The earliest it will start is tomorrow at 8 but in all likelihood it'll be pushed to Wednesday if the weather radar is correct.
Dave:It's been called off their going to try and play it tomorrow night.
Thank you…. I see that PhilliesNation once again outdoes the Mainstream Sports Media.
J-man…I wouldn't go as far as saying it's going to cost us the World Series. I mean we still have 3 games to play.
They couldve legally called the game in our favor but they waited until the Rays tied the game and hurriedly postponed it. I an SO sick and tired of this network tv primetime BS. play the game earlier in the day. its baseball, baseball is not meant to be played at 130 am. This is ridiculous. They jackasses totally put a black eye over this World Series.
The Phillies are going to win this World Series no matter what. It is not IMPOSSIBLE to lose this now. They will win. I dont want to hear anymore of this PATHETIC LOSER whining from my fellow Philadelphians. NOT NOW. NOT THIS TIME. WE ARE GOING TO WIN THE WORLD SERIES….PERIOD!
Yes, Major League Baseball does not want the Phillies to win. We already knew that. Deal with it, overcome it. This game should be restarted at the top of the 6th win a 2-1 lead. Otherwise its just not fair. The Phillies are going to win game 5 regardless. They will eek a run out of this somehow and close the door.
Bud Selig should be ousted as the Commissioner at the Winter Meetings THIS year.
Looks like I may make a trek to Philly Wednesday to try to get in…..if they play it in the afternoon.Man,this really blows.I was looking forward to that chess game called the hot stove league.
Mitch Williams is flipping out on csn. Said it wasn't fair to send Cole out there in the top of the 6th, and the Rays pitcher gets to start on a dry mound in the bottom when it's played.
Mitch Williams and Ricky Bo said it best. Seriously, ridiculous that they made Hamels stand out there in the rain for 10 minutes. The ground ball that Upton got was a result of the bad weather, which on a normal day, Rollins fields that.
Total ridiculous BS!
Sitting, waterlogged in the Linc parking lot just a little pissed. Game should have been delayed when they made the pitching change in bottom of the 5th when we had 2 men on and no out. Selig eats sh*t!
Georgie, I'd be flipping out too….. I suppose this is why i stay behind the cameras.
Um….j-man. IT is completely WEAK and PATHETIC to say that this cost us the World Series. Thats a feeble, bottom-feeding, loser thing to say.
Theyre winning this world championship.
This is total BS. Complete ridiculous total absolute BS.
Quick thought. I don't know exactly how the whole pitchers arm thing works. But with Hamels not having to pitch for another 4 mos or so, could he come out and finish this game without hurting his arm. From what I can tell they don't really feel the effects of their game until about two days later. So could he come out and finish the game without much damage to his arm?
Another one. If Hamels leads off the inning and they score behind him and then they take him out for the bullpen, does he still win because he was "in the game" when they took the lead?
Quick thought. I don't know exactly how the whole pitchers arm thing works. But with Hamels not having to pitch for another 4 mos or so, could he come out and finish this game without hurting his arm. From what I can tell they don't really feel the effects of their game until about two days later. So could he come out and finish the game without much damage to his arm?
Another one. If Hamels leads off the inning and they score behind him and then they take him out for the bullpen, does he still win because he was "in the game" when they took the lead?
Quick thought. I don't know exactly how the whole pitchers arm thing works. But with Hamels not having to pitch for another 4 mos or so, could he come out and finish this game without hurting his arm. From what I can tell they don't really feel the effects of their game until about two days later. So could he come out and finish the game without much damage to his arm?
Another one. If Hamels leads off the inning and they score behind him and then they take him out for the bullpen, does he still win because he was "in the game" when they took the lead?
Quick thought. I don't know exactly how the whole pitchers arm thing works. But with Hamels not having to pitch for another 4 mos or so, could he come out and finish this game without hurting his arm. From what I can tell they don't really feel the effects of their game until about two days later. So could he come out and finish the game without much damage to his arm?
Another one. If Hamels leads off the inning and they score behind him and then they take him out for the bullpen, does he still win because he was "in the game" when they took the lead?
I hate this media love feast with the F'ing Rays. Bud Selig is getting back to us for beating the BrewCrew. I feel sick. Today is going to be the worst part of my life waiting for the Phillies to go.
Mitch has a good point
It's also has been announced that ticket stubs for tonight's suspended game will be honored for tomorrow's resumption of game starting no earlier than 8:00PM (weather permitting).
I'm really sorry about the multiple posts, my cpu kind of fritzed out and pressed the button a couple times.
WE will be the ones batting first. The game starts BOTTOM of 6th! So if we score a run in that inning, Hamels would be winning the game.
Frankly, I wouldn't want Hamels tomorrow for the 7th inning. I've never seen Hamels work on two consecutive days, no matter how short the outing might be. If he BEGS for the ball, then yea, let him keep pitching. But we have a really good bullpen and only *hopefully* 3 more innings to pitch.
But seriously, Tampa does get to field the game now in clean conditions, something we did not.
Rollins would have made that play and gotten Upton out had the field conditions not been the way they had. This was taylor made to work against us.
It should have been delayed in the 5th inning for crying out loud.
They need to cancel baseball forever, and do it now, while space-time is still (relatively) intact.
so Taguchi-Rollins-Werth for the 6th and Burrell ends the game with a game winning homerun off that lame Rays pitcher they keep promoting
"It is the rough road that leads to the heights of greatness."
Lets go out tomorrow or Wednesday or whenever this game is supposed to continue, and WIN it. We can do it. We obviously lost a big advantage, but we can do this. We have a great bullpen and we'll be playing in Philly. Lets eat up their bullpen tomorrow. Main course: David Price.
Selig said:
If Pena had not tied it, Selig said he would not have let the Phillies win with a game that was called after six innings.
"It's not a way to end a World Series," he said. "I would not have allowed a World Series to end this way."
Manny, I'm with ya. We are gonna pull this out…….HERE IN PHILLY!!!!
If it's a righty throwing, I say just put Stairs out there and go all out and get a run.
It's so hard to be optimistic in this. I just feel like we are cheated enough to the point that it will hurt us
or hell have Myers bat 😉
I'm never going to get to sleep tonight now. I'm seriously so freakin' upset.
Who's to say that if they had stopped at the end of 5 that the Rays wouldn't have scored MORE than one run in the top 6th when it resumed. Let's give Cole credit for only giving up the one. No way of knowing…….but this what we have and let's deal with it and prevail.
We have to look at it this way, we are still in control. We have a tie game, but we have 4 ABs left and they only have 3. We should win this game.
But Mitch Williams is 100% correct, and Selig, again, looked like a complete ass. What a joke.
blah blah, I don't want to wait until Wednesday 🙁
I know…..I'm sounding too optimistic. This really DOES suck!
Selig LOOKED like a complete ass because he IS a complete ass
So who starts for us tomorrow or Wed when he has to take the mound.? Which reliever has the makeup to sort of be like a starter?
Yeah I guess that's the logical move. I always forget about him because of the heroics of all the rest of the bullpen.
Well what we need is a run to start off the
gamebottom of the sixth and then just get through the top 7 by committee and get it to Madson and Lidge.
Of course Selig admitted he was playing god:
The Philadelphia Phillies wouldn't have had the game handed to them, despite driving rain.
After Game 5 of the World Series was suspended on Monday, commissioner Bud Selig said that he would not have allowed a rain-shortened conclusion to the deciding game even if the Tampa Bay Rays had not tied the game 2-2 in the top of the sixth inning.
With the Phillies leading after 5½ innings, officials could have called the game due to rain and awarded Philadelphia the win and a 4-1 Series victory.
"We'd have sat here," Selig said. "The game would have been in a rain delay until the weather conditions allowed us to continue. And that could have been 24 hours or 48 hours or whenever."
That's a noteworthy stand because the rules don't permit an official game to be suspended unless it's tied. But Selig said he would have declared a de facto suspension, based on his own authority, and simply called it a "rain delay."
"I have to use my judgment here," the commissioner said. "This is not a way to end the World Series."
One of these days, then, the Rays and Phillies are going to finish the fifth game of the World Series. Just don't ask when.
"We're not going to resume until we have decent weather conditions," Selig said at a surreal press conference.
Selig said he couldn't say when this game will be resumed. He just said it would be a night game when that happens.
"It will be the same starting time whether it's Tuesday night or Wednesday night or Thursday night or whenever," Selig said.
And since the forecast is ugly for Tuesday and into Wednesday, there is no telling when that will be. Yet. But Selig said he had no intention of moving the rest of this game to Tampa Bay.
"No, we'll stay here," he said, "if we have to celebrate Thanksgiving here."
Selig said fans will be given "many hours" of notice as to when they should haul out their ticket stubs and come back to the park.
I am beyond furious! BEYOND IT! This is the hugest lump of bullshit I have ever seen in my life in baseball! That fact that it is happening to this team is just horrible! This game should have been halted at the top of the inning! I am disgusted at Bud Selig! He has proven himself incompetent! George W. Bush was in heavy competition for this job with Selig! I find myself in absolute amazement, when I utter this, but I wish Mr. Bush was MLB Commissioner tonight!
I was at the game – a surreal experience to say the least. I'm just hoping the players can mentally "re-prepare" for a potential WS clinching game….that is only 3.5 innings long. They're professionals, and always have been a "business-first" team, so I'm confident that they can. But they could always use a little help…
…So to all fans that will be there again whenever play resumes: We NEED to re-create that electrifying atmosphere that was there for the first few innings of tonight's game. It was absolutely amazing down there with all of you, and these guys are gonna need us.
Let's do this.
Go PHILS!!
i don't disagree with suspending the game. calling the game with a phils lead is not the way to bring home a championship.
BUT… as noted many times, selig really f'cked this one up. if he knew the whole time that this game would not be decided by foul weather, then why wait until the rays tied it before calling the game? and why not make that fact known to everyone–the players, managers, umpires, broadcasters, etc.? interesting that the inclement weather rules were put into effect last year, but what does it matter with big bud at the helm? i don't think the field was in any worse condition at the middle of the 6th than it was at the end of the 5th. so at the very least, make the rays play in that slop. plus, i don't buy his on-the-fly antics on the podium. god forbid, if the rays had taken the lead in the 6th, i don't see this game being suspended. something tells me this game would have been called with a rays victory.
and maddon is quickly making my sh*t list. at first, i felt that he was a good, classy representative for the game of baseball. articulate and always willing to give credit where credit is due. but i'm starting to see past that charrade with his persistent acts of gamesmanship. he was very quick to keep his players on the bench after they tied the game and make an appeal to stop the game. and of course, they listened because these are the rays.
i'm kinda upset and surprised that charlie didn't say anything. i don't know if he was confused, pissed, or indifferent. but at the same time, i gotta admire him for just dealing with it and playing the game. i don't think an argument would've helped any, so no use in wasting his energy.
so anyway, i'd just like to thank selig, MLB, and fox for screwing this up big time. selig has got to be THE WORST representative for baseball ever. how is it that this guy sits at the top?
ok, i'm done complaining. the series and championship is still our to take. so let's go out and take it.
My pick to start this game up again? Ryan Madson. We can get two strong out of him I think.
Well, I guess it's time to try to get some sleep (if I can). Tomorrow we all get to crank it up once again. I don't know about the rest of you, but the emotional toll is getting to me. I just wan this to be over already. If this thing goes back to Tampa, I may have to resort to drastic measures. I seriously don't know if I can ever listen to a cowbell again.
I seriously feel like it has been completely ripped from us. Momentum, the game, the series…..
I have this gut feeling that this will go badly now. I hope to God they prove me wrong.
Tim was right, there were tears tonight, but they certainly weren't for victory….
I'm going to say this now…
If this game was in LA, New York, Chicago of that dumb Boston, they game would've been suspended at the bottom of the fifth in not sooner.
this is ridiculous… i said originally tht it wud be a "tainted win" if it ended after 6 ininngs like tht. but cmon.. if somethin terrible happens with our phillly luck then this thts such a bad call.. THIS IS OUR CHAMPIONSHIP.
I'm trying my best to calm down, because I seriously feel so angry that I'm having chest pains…..
Guys….we have to get our sh!t together……the team needs us. Like Dan said, we have to recreate that electric atmosphere. If any of you can't go to the game when it resumes then GIVE your ticket to a friend, a family member, anyone who is a true fan so he or she CAN recreate that atmosphere for the team. WE CAN DO THIS and WE WILL DO THIS!!!!
Breathe, SJ, breathe.
I'm trying my best….
Maybe it is a lifetime of disappointments, but it just feels like this kind of stuff would only happen to us.
And watching the interviews got me more worked up. The Phillies for the most part refused to speak because of how angry they were (and rightfully so).
Tampa is all out there (including Maddon and Pena) with smug smiles about how great this is for them….
Yeah, well let's see who has the last laugh. Maddon's a poor example of a humble man. Charlie did the right thing for not speaking.
If Selig "got nervous" about playing conditions in the fourth inning, why in the world did he not suspend the game at that time? The field became unplayable beyond that point. Seems like him and the umpires in this series have alot in common.
I just have this horrible gut feeling that this is going to kill the team and cost us our World Series….
The same one I have been waiting my entire life for…..
You Phillies fans were Jobbed and Robbed……..I have 7 words to say and from NY to Philly,GET A NEW G0D D— COMMISHIONER!
C'mon, y'all, man the f&*ck up. Enough of this whiny, loser talk.
We're still in a great position. We're at home. We need to outlast the Rays for three innings. We got Madson/Romero for one inning and Lidge for two innings.
The Phils are a mentally tough bunch. They'll be ready to go tomorrow. And so should we.
And I know ESPN love David Price — and he's got great stuff for sure — but he's a rookie and the last time I saw him he was giving up a home run to Brunlett of all people.
Bullpen holds em. We get a run or two and win it all. And when we win it, it will be legit.
I'm seriously thinking the worst is going to happen. I have this gut feeling it is going to…..
And it is not right. It is not fair.
This is being stolen from us. If I were the Phillies, I'd file a protest for not putting the tarp on at the end of the 5th when it should have been put. Instead, they waited til the Rays tied it up and Joe Maddon then says "hey let's put the tarp on."
You know what…….this is a gritty, hard-edged town. Nothing in this city comes easy. But some thing tells me that it all going to work out. No question…..no one will be able to say that we didn't earn it when it's all over.
Selig got nervous?!?!? He more like carpped the bed.
My girlfriend tried to cheer me up by saying that the Phils have been so resilient and have played so well against adversity.
I sure hope she is right.
Of course this can't be easy…
The phils had all sorts of baserunners earlier in this game and should have a bunch more runs right now.
Send Madson out to start? I dunno, we all know how he fared as a starter. Hopefully the boys come out and pound 10 runs out in the bottom of the 6th….but that would be too easy,
Just….find a way to win…phind a way.
SJ, for God's sake, pull yourself together. Dammit, this WILL be our trophy. I understand how you feel, but seriously, do you REALLY think that the Phillies can lose this series? This is a blip on the screen that we will all be talking about for years to come, but it will be a sidenote to what the real story is….of how we won the championship.
okay listen guys…
Bud Selig didn't conspire against the Phils.
even if this was called earlier…THE PHILS WOULD NOT BE WORLD CHAMPS…Selig said he wasnt going to let the World Series end like that…
so either way, we'd be waiting for this game to finish.
Now I do agree that this game should have been called WAY before it was. Cole pitching out there (even though he got the first two out) wasnt fair…
Not sure jimmy had a play in dry weather on that play anyway…but…here we are now…nothing we can do about it.
by rule, Balfour is in the game…im sure Maddon will use different pitcher (price im sure) to avoid Dobbs or Stairs…
if Price comes in, Coste should hit.
the Phils start the game on offense so in a way, they are the road team, and also the home team. so they have pinch hitter, then the top of the order.
this is a bullpen game…obviously. Not going to use Cole, not going to use Brett, or Joe, or Moyer….
it's a bullpen game and you treat it like you were playing 9 straight innings…
it'll be the same as it's been…
a run (or a few) in the 6th would be absolutely fantastic.
I just hope the Bank has life…I hope this doesnt ruin all the energy the fans had
Chuck, over the years, I have learned that none of this is ours until it is official. We come so close, yet so far every time. Yes, we are 9 outs and 1 run away from finally getting it, but it just feels like every known force literal and spiritual is against us right now.
I have waited my entire life for tonight's game and I sincerely feel like this based off of history of getting my hopes up.
I don't think Madson's the right guy for this. Actually, Cholly should throw the rotation away and pitch Myers…….yes……Myers…….he has the perfect mentality to come out in this situation and save this game. The whole place would just be nuts and he would totally rise to the occasion. Of course, that won't happen…….so whoever it is…….please God bring your best stuff.
That place will be rockin…the city is so starved.
Myers…i'm worried he'll try to come out and be a closer again and just get screwed up
I hear you, SJ. Believe me, I don't feel real good either.
Chuck, that's a stupid idea to pitch Myers.
what if, they lose….there is NO OFF DAY before game 6.
Myers is your game 6 starter….you cant use Brett in this game at all…
you cant use ANY STARTER
the Phils are TIED…its 2-2….the series is 3-1 PHILS LEAD
why panic and use your game 6 starter in a 3 inning game??
you pitch Eyre, Durbin, JC, Madson and Lidge…
you dont change things up…
According to David Murphy's blog, it will NOT be Myers pitching.
It will lead off with a pinch hitter and then go to the bullpen.
No shit…
if any starter pitches it'll be a Rays starter…they NEED to win…
why on Earth would the Phils use Myers?
it's the 6th inning of a tie game…he's not the closer, he's not a bullpen guy…he's a starter…
whoever they use, has the entire bottom of the 6th to warm up….so it'll be the same guys we are used to..
nothing will change
Tampa would lead off with the 6-7-8 spots, all righties.
Call me crazy, but wouldn't it be smarter then to use Madson in the 7th because of that and then have Romero for at least Ima-whatever and Crawford, both lefites?
You are probably right, mike s……BUT let's just think about if this thing isn't completed til Wed…..then you could pitch Moyer on Thurs with 4 days rest and Hamels Friday on short rest. I mean, how many pitches did he have tonight??
Check this out from the Courier Post.
Go phils. Madson romero and lidge! They will score off balfour in the 6th. Go phils!
SJ, you make a good point about the righty-lefty thing.
Cole hasnt pitche on short rest AT ALL…why do it now?
and Moyer pitched like shit on the road in the playoffs.
SJ Mike…
It won't be Madson…UNLESS the Phils score in the 6th…
Madson can go 2 innings…and he's been awesome, so righty lefty, doesnt matter…
if they score in the 6th, Madson will pitch..
if not, then it'll be Durbin more than likely…then Eyre JC etc to follow.
the Phils score in the 6th…things get a whole lot easier.
Trust me, I like Madson as the 8th inning setup guy, but the way Maddon shifted his lineup, it changes the righty/lefty matchups around (which is a concept I've always thought to be overlbown to begin with).
If it is still Balfour in the game to start, who do you lead off with? Stairs, Dobbs, or Jenkins?
Pen your pinch-hitters up under the stadium at the batting cages with energy drinks and Wheaties and have them take batting practice at their own pace until the start of the suspended game and then send one of them out there to pinch-hit and he will be ready to go.
Matt Stairs. Go for broke for one run. You still have the top of the order coming up if he makes the first out.
Madson and Lidge should be able to give us 2 innings each…Then we got Durbin,Erye,Romero,and possibly Happ if it comes to him.
Anyway, on that note, I'm going to attempt (key word) to get some sleep tonight. I've calmed down enough I think that I might be able to.
Hopefully be back again at it tomorrow and finally wrap up this crazy journey.
They will make out like bandits on parking!
mike s, if it comes down to the 7th game of the WS and it's on Friday and Cole has a LOW pitch count from tonight then why not do it now.??
Wouldn't you want your best starter on the mound for that? If he had 100 or more pitches from tonight….then ok, don't pitch him…..but he had a low count and probably would MORE than rise to the occasion.
But this thing's not going 7 so it's a moot point anyway.
SJ, good chatting and bitching with you…..I'm outta here soon too.
Do you think the rays pitch David Price to start off the 6th tomorrow
yeah I would want my best pitcher on the mound Chuck…
but, this is the first year Cole has gone without injury…he's over 250 innings pitched, he doesnt go on short rest…he just doesnt do it…he's going to be our franchise pitcher for years and years to come…
i think using him on short rest is asking for injury.
now im not totally clear on the rule, but Balfour is def. in the game because he wasnt pinch hit for…
now I don't if that means he has to pitch to a hitter or not….i doubt it….
Im sure it will start with him throwing, the Phils will announce Stairs or Dobbs or Jenkins…
Maddon will come out (complain about something im sure) then bring in Price…
which at that point Charlie should counter with Taguchi or Coste (most likely Taguchi since Coste is your backup catcher, and Bruntlett is your replacement for Burrell in the field when you have the lead)
i'd be VERY surprised if Balfour actually pitched to a hitter, considering it'll be either a home run hitter who eats up fast balls, or the best pinch hitter in baseball…both lefties…
so expect Price early tomorrow, and by early, I mean right away.
J-man is right on. You use your best pitchers first. No sense in saving them. Stairs, Rollins werth against balfour, I like it. Navaro, gross and Bartlett against madson. Go phils!
David Price should come in the game to pitch and will likely stay in for awhile unless the Phils rock him.
The problem is, then price may have to hit for himself, balfour for the 6th, if it gets to utley then price or Howell, if its Howell, price will then pitch the 7th and 8th, and maybe 9th
Don't forget guys…
the Phils are home, so it's NL rules…Price will have to hit if Maddon keeps him in…
so, just keep that in mind…who knows what happens
Hey,why not use me to pitch this suspended game,i promise i will do a good job
Adam, you must have forgot…
you're not on the post season roster…
and plus..
you suck
If I missed this, please forgive me, it is late. What about Myers starting it and then once we score we go to Lidge/Madsen if needed? My reason is simple: He pitches better at home and it saves the Pen IF we go in extra innings. If the unthinkable happens, we can use Moyer and Blanton, in game 6 and 7 – who seemed to do well. What does everyone think? I mean, throw EVERYTHING we have to keep them at zeroes, and pray someone on our side pops one.
Mike S and Chuck –
My apologies, I just saw the post. Mike S, respectfully, I am not sure it is a stupid idea. I am thinking longevity too. Look – best case scenario, we win – season over. Worst case we must go to game 6 and 7, and Myers does better at the Park, versus away. He certainly did well the other night – but here he can act as a starter by just putting up zeroes. if we score, we bring Madsen and/or Lidge in to preserve it.
I am in the mindset that we HAVE to win at home, and I would be willing to do whatever it takes. Heck, if we had to pitch one pitcher per batter to the ninth inning I'd do it. I do not care what it takes, let's just WIN.
I just got done reading the entire thread, something I should have done before I posted my first foot in mouth post. Let's NOT think the worst yet. We are tied, not losing. New 3-inning ballgame coming up. let's just get out there and call all of our friends with tickets (or if you are at the game) and tell them to cheer LOUD and root the Phillies on. We can do it I still believe. Remember the movie Major League, when he said "Only one thing to do – win the whole f—- thing." So let's stop thinking the worst (including me), talk about winning, and figure out HOW to do this effectively. if we think of it as our last game of the year, we can use anyone we want (minus Hamels, Moyer, and Blanton just in case of course). Everyone else is available on the bench and in the pen. That is 22 freaking people. One of those 22 can pop one out. heck, 23 people if you want to hope Blanton smacks one out again. You get my point. Games is not over yet, let's get pumped. I just think of the Mets fans and how miserable they are and how much they want us to lose. Let's end this rivalry for the last time and WIN.
I'm not going to take Selig to task for the game suspension, or when the game was called. I'm just dealing with the game as it is. The Phils had scoring shots in both the fourth and fifth innings — bases jammed in the fourth, but couldn't deliver. Kazmir walked 6 Phils in 4 innings and the Phils had left 9 runners stranded through 5 innings of at-bats.
As the Phils started the sixth up 2-1, it seemed obvious, rain or not, that they needed to score more runs to win this thing.
As to whether or not Hamels wins if he's pulled for a pinch hitter and the Phils score in the sixth — my understanding is that he would be credited with the win.
Whether Hamels bats, or a pinch hitter, and whether we see Madson, or Durbin, or maybe even J.A. Happ in the seventh — we'll see what move Charlie makes.
I just hope that the clubhouse gets over anger and gets down to business. Otherwise, curses are self-fulfilling prophecies.
You are correct – IF they score in the 6th and they MAINTAIN the lead, Hamels gets the win and whomever the Rays pitcher was who gave up the tie would be tagged with the loss.
Ok..I am not sure how to fault Selig. I think it would have been worse to cut it off after five. Then you have the bullpen pitching another inning-even though Hamels gave up a run I like my chances with him. If the Phils wouldnt have CHOKED AGAIN with RISP it would not have even mattered. We have four chances to put some up and close it out with Madson (remember he can go 2), JC if need be, and Lidge. Mother Nature was mean to us but can't change it now. Let's get em and take the ring.
I published this morning at my website/blog, and thought you folks might enjoy this. All the daily entries this past week have been about the Series, in fact, if you wish to visit and read them:
The Dream Delayed, or Drowned?
It all started so well. Game #5 of the World Series began last night with Phils' ace Cole Hamels mowing the Tampa Bay Rays down in order and in easy fashion in the top of the first. In the bottom of the inning, the Phillies loaded the bases thanks to some rough umpiring and the early wildness of Rays all-star lefty Scott Kazmir. And then Phillies' centerfielder Shane Victorino, the 'Flyin' Hawaiian', one of the many heroes of this glorious post-season ride, lashed a base hit to left field to score two runs and give the Phillies an early 2-0 lead. The fans at Citizen's Bank Park erupted in a frenzy of 'Rally Towel' waving, and thus began what was hoped to be, what everyone believed would be, the night that would end 'The Curse'…….(continued at http://www.mattveasey.com)
Bullshit. The game should have been postponed way before this. Bud Selig wants Tampa to have a chance. I can't believe this. It's like even nature doesn't want the Phillies to win.
the way i see it with the forecast what it was mlb had two options
1. move the start time up to 7
2. not even attempt to play
they chase neither and this is what they created
i wonder if they would have sent the red-sox and the dodgers out
in those conditions
The problem with Selig is that he comes across as totally unprepared, and he worries too much about appearances. He knew he would look bad and was trying to avoid looking bad. Consequently he made a bad decision – let the game go on in bad conditions and hope for a tie at the end of a half inning. Someone in his position needs to be decisive – just stop the thing when the field demands it and say, "look, no one in either clubhouse wants this thing determined by a called game, so it's suspended." If he had acted with confidence in his decision it would have been ok. Instead he sat there fretting about how he would look, and now he looks like the spineless wonder that he is. Meanwhile, Phillie needs to overcome a bs run that the rays managed to squeak out of this inning. The situations sucks for Philly, but it isn't that Bud wants us to lose, it's just that he's an incompetent boob.
Those tears of joy have now turned to juts of rage. So upsetting. i know it's not over, but it was just SUCH a let down. A whole day of adrenal excitement wasted.
I agree Tim. It was an ugly display of MLB's administration procedures at the highest level.
Pingback: Did Selig do the right thing last night? » A Couple Things » A couple things about politics, sports, travel, and other stuff.
Bud Selig said last night, "I would not have allowed a World Series to end this way", when referring to game over because of a rain delay. What he should have thought before the game was, "I will not allow a World Series to start this way", when he saw the rain during batting practice and read the threatening weather forecast.
"Maybe it is a lifetime of disappointments, but it just feels like this kind of stuff would only happen to us. "
No sh*t. This only happens to the Phillies! I'm extremely upset with this whole situation and I have this terrible gut feeling too, SJ Mike. It's exactly the type of thing the Rays needed to get a comeback. However, I'm doing my best to hide my frustration and see how the rest of the game turns out. I'd go with Durbin/Romero/Eyre/Madson for the 7th and 8th innings and hopefully give Lidge the possibility to close the 9th.
LH: But given the forecast you think it would have been prudent to potentially have to wait till Wednesday to play this game?
The forecast is terrible for tonight with 50 mph wind gusts and snow flurries. Selig said game will not be moved up; will start at 8. I would not expect the game to happen tonight. It probably will be tomorrow at 8.
With that said, if more some horrible, awful reason, the Phils were to lose and the rest of the game were played tomorrow, would there still be a travel day? Would game 6 be played on Friday? Meaning game 7 would be Saturday? If the worst thing were to happen and a game 7 happened, Hamels could go on regular rest for a game 7 if they kept the travel day in there.
I was as absolutely furious as the rest of you last night watching that ridiculous press conference. Especially when Selig pulled out the bull shit rule book. Then when he said the game would never end with it being called, it would have been an indefinite rain delay, I really saw how everyone is against us. Why not suspend the game in the 5th or the end of the 5th? There is no way Jimmy would have dropped the ball in normal conditions and it would still be 2-1. I am absolutely disgusted and like some of these other posts have a sinking feeling. I think the city got too ahead of ourselves. People were already taking off work for the parade on Wednesday. I feel like we cursed ourselves.
However, I am trying to remind myself that this is a tie game and we bat first. We will do it! this is our moment!
F Fox and F Selig!
Reading some of the posts on here are completely ridiculous. MLB wants the Phillies to lose? Yeah, I bet there is some grand conspiracy of Bud Selig sitting in his office with his evil cabal of MLB executives making sure that the game would be in the Rays favor!
Think about it objectively, people. Imagine the flack they would have received if they did call the game. Picture yourselves as Rays fans, to have your season end, to have to World Series DECIDED on a rain shortened game. It would be cheap by every sense of the word.
We need to be better prepared we now let Delaware become Rays fans . We as host needed to provide a hotel that should of beenBuds job . We need to be better prepred the Rays shouldnt have had totravel out of Steate thay should have stayed here they cant stand howard espens so they go out of stae not to put up with philly fans and media . How embarrsing is that to a city to send a team n hour or so away . We need to be better host but dam it now go Beat Rays
GAME OFFICALLY MOVED TO 10 A.M WEDNESDAY MORNING . BEFORE THE NEXT STORM MOVES IN LATER WED . THIS ON USUAL BUT PARADE TO FOLLOW DIRECTLY FOLLOWING THE GAME ALL EMPLOYERS ENCORAGED TO LET YOUR EMPLOYEES OFF WED . ONE THING I KNOW FOR SURE WHEN IS THE LAST TIME PHILADELPHIA DID ANY THING EASY ITS NOT EASY BEING A PHILADELPHIA SPORTS FAN NOT NOW NOT THAN BUT IT IS NEVER EASY ! MY PREDECTION IS COLE HAMMELLS ON FRI NIGHT PITCHES GAME 7 AND LIDGE RELEIVES IN WIN AND GAMEGOES 13 INGS AND THE PHILLIES WIN ON FRI PARADE SAT AT NOON = 2008 PHILLIES WORLD CHAMPS 2008 . from http://www.strasburgpa.com
There is no cursing ourselves, Katie….that was and is perfectly natural…no, the problem is seemingly otherworldly….what this means is that when these Fightins' put a knot on this administrative disaster of a World Series and close out the 2008 baseball season victoriously for the City of Philadelphia, what a party it'll be.
I don't see anything wrong with making the neccessary arrangements in light of victory. This is just going to be another hurdle for which the Phillies will have to get past in order to claim what's theirs…and wouldn't that be in true Philly fashion?
When the commisioner was on I thought at first is was some wino derilect. Maybe the rain got thru the carboard he was under. Phillie gets screwed again and not even kissed.
Scholar in Training: Yes, it would have been fair to allow the players to work to their potential giving the importance of the World Series. Both team's pitchers could have waited and played in better conditions which would have allowed the best of the two pitchers to possible play longer in the game. The conditions diminished the each player's offensive and defensive skills. The one positive aspect is that no player was hurt.
That game last night was bullshit, and the Phillies get hosed as usual. Bud Selig not only needs to lose his job as commissioner, but he should be tied up, have all his body hair ripped out, then be burned with sulfuric acid, and then stoned to death in the street, and after that have his body picked at by rats, infested with disease.
Basically I am saying he blows.
KM-"basically I am saying he blows". In a round-about way, I see. LOL
doug, none of us are saying that we wanted the game to be called and have the phils win on a shortened game. In fact several people (phillies fans) said it would be a cheap way to win. We're simply saying that selig mishandled the whole situation, and we're bitter about the tying run that probably would not have scored under normal circumstances.
I'm with KM….
Why'd the Rays have to come to MY state to stay…damn…
Laxatives in the Continental breakfast perhaps???
the worst case…
if they lose game 5, and lose game 6…
this is what Cole had to say about pitching game 7
"If the Phillies want me to pitch, I'd tell them I'm more than happy to step in," Hamels said.
so there you go…
after seeing that, i change my mind…if he WANTS to pitch, you let him pitch…
hopefully, he doesnt need to
I have a bad feeling about this, really bad feeling
Christ on an friggin' cracker… What the hell is wrong with you people?
All of you with these "bad feelings" need to get an 'effing grip already, especially SJ Mike (not to necessarily pick you out to pick on… but you're panicking worse than a school-girl who missed her period.)
Seriously son… You and everyone else need to take a step back and calm the hell down. If you'd been waiting all your life for last night's game… Then I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you're fairly young – Being such, I realize that with a dearth of things to draw on it's difficult to do so… but you've got to put things in perspective. The same goes for everyone else who's needlessly panicking.
Let me say this first just to get it out of the way… The timing of the weather last night was unfortunate, as was the further poor decision making skills of this year's officiating staff. Regardless of the debacle last night, the umpires in this World Series have shown themselves to be some of the worst in recent memory. Frankly, I feel it wouldn't be out of the question if they lost their jobs for their performance (or lack thereof) in this series… At the very least, they should be fined and banned from ever officiating any post-season games from now on. How could we honestly expect them to exercise proper judgement or stand up to Fox or Selig, if they can't even call outs that were seen from the friggin' space station? I mean really… Calling Upton safe at first during game three and then calling Rollins safe at third on Sunday night were some of the most absurd calls I've seen in quite some time, let alone in the same series. As if that weren't bad enough, they've seemingly forgotten how to call pitches… despite how much I didn't really mind it, I'll always give credit where it's due – there was no way Kazmir walked six batters… Yes, he threw some obvious balls, but he was throwing quite a few strikes last night that weren't being called, a prime example being Pat The (Useless) Bat – He should have been out. They were being unbelievably tight on him… Despite the fact I think they gave Blanton some leeway the night before and were especially cutting Jamie some big breaks on Saturday. Again… it worked to our favor, so I really couldn't care less – but I'll still call it as I see it.
As far as that ass-hat Bud Selig goes… I have long contested that he is one of the worst, if not the worst person to ever hold the Office of the Commissioner and has done more to single-handedly destroy the game of baseball than anyone in my lifetime. I wish the owners would finally grow a pair and remove him from office… but he's one of their own and they've already proven they'd rather cut their respective noses off despite their ugly, immoral faces. With that said… As much as I continue to loathe him, I don't think there's this grand conspiracy against the Phillies or that he necessarily wants them to lose – He's simply an incompetent retard that loves himself and his money more than he does the game.
Three things are pretty damn obvious (that is, to everyone other than Selig and to a lesser extent – Gillick and the 12-year old over at the Rays). First – The game shouldn't have been played at all… Selig can make all the smug comments he wants about meteorologists, but it only proves that he was only listening to the ones he wanted to listen to because John Bolaris had been saying well before the game started that rain would be moving by the start of the game and that it would start getting really nasty by 10pm at the latest. If he was so insistent about playing the game, he should have done the right thing – said "F you" to Fox and started the game at least an hour earlier (ie – when it should've started anyway). And then finally… If he already knew that he was going to suspend the game under the new rules no matter what, then he should have called it at the top of the fifth, period.
NOW… With all that out of the way, let's look at the reality of the situation and put things into perspective. The only reason why any of you are having a "bad feeling" is because you did the one thing you should never, ever do – You started counting your chickens and celebrating before the game even started. Not only were you setting yourselves up and begging for disappointment, but you were taunting the baseball gods… You don't EVER fck with the baseball gods and you don't ever get excited and celebrate before the final out… You just don't do that.
Truthfully speaking… The numbers weren't adding up in my head. The Rays are a good team and I honestly didn't expect them to lose three straight – I mean, come on now… Let's be just a little realistic. Yes, it would be fantastic if they clinched it at home… but the chances of them losing three straight are about as good as them winning three straight.
HOWEVER… Here's where everyone is really missing the ball with all of these "bad feelings" and overreactions of missed opportunities, lost momentum, etc. If you really step back and take a hard, honest look at how the situation was unfolding… This delay might be the best thing that could have happened – Why? Just look at Miss Longoria and her boyfriend Pena… After going hitless the entire series, they finally turned it on last night and got hits. There's no doubt that they're really good hitters and that they were both in an uncharacteristic slump… We all know that all it usually takes it one hit to pull a player out of a slump – just look at Howard. They got their hits and I'm sure there whole mental approach had turned for it. So the absolute best thing that could have happened was for this delay to happen just as they were turning it on… The only momentum that's being screwed with is theirs! They finally got their swing back and now they can't play… It was perfect timing.
The Phillies still have their momentum people… They're leading 3-1 in the World Series and they're tied 2-2 in a game which they're basically getting a fresh start with. Add on top of that the fact that in most of the games so far, all of their scoring has coming earlier in the game right out of the gate… That they've got 3 more outs than the Rays… That they'll most likely have Madsen and then Lidge on the mound.. While still having home field advantage on what will be a cold evening… How could this possibly be a bad thing?
Perspective people… Perspective. We couldn't ask for a better spot to be in… So stop your balking and whining and let's give out team what they need.
Bob, I got a bad feeling on this one, all right? I mean I got a bad feeling! I don't think the Phils are gonna pull this off! D'ya understand what I'm sayin' to you?
what about 2009 ? a repeat what will keep philly from repeating ?
Haha! Thanks for the good read


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Donald B Carter
JANESVILLE---Don B. Carter, age 96, of Janesville, formerly of Marysville, OH, died on Thursday, December 27, 2012, at Rock Haven Nursing Home, Janesville. He was born in Black Duck, MN, on January 26, 1916, the son of Jayson and Stella Carter. He was a member of Baptist Church, Garson Point, FL, and was a dedicated servant of his Lord and Savior.
Don is survived by his daughter, Wanda (Cecil) Carlile of Brookings, OR; 3 sons: Lloyd (Mae) Carter of Pleasureville, KY, D.D. (Dorothy) Carter of Carey, OH, and Jack (Diane) Carter of Brookings, OR; 3 step sons: Glenn, Gary and Gordon Thompson of Florida; and 15 grandchildren. He was preceded in death by his parents, 2 wives, Inez Carter and Hazel Carter, and a daughter, Judith Caudell.
A Funeral Service will be held at 3:30 p.m. on Monday, December 31, 2012, at SCHNEIDER APFEL SCHNEIDER & SCHNEIDER FUNERAL HOME & CREMATORY, Janesville with Rev. Jerry Amstutz officiating. Visitation will be on Monday from 1:30 p.m. to the time of service at the funeral home. SCHNEIDER APFEL SCHNEIDER & SCHNEIDER FUNERAL HOME & CREMATORY, Janesville is assisting the family.
Special Thank You to the staff at Rock Haven Nursing Home and to Lou and Barbara Bowman for their excellent care of Don.


text:
By Sean Greene 11:02pm, July 28, 2013
VIDEO: Highlights and Reaction from Newark National's Third Straight TitleNate Hardcastle pitched a four-inning one-hitter and slammed a home run to boost Newark National to its 3rd straight Delaware Little League Championship after a 12-0 victory over Millsboro Sunday night.
The defending champions won the toss and elected to bat first, and immediately put their downstate rivals in trouble after they drew a walk and a hit batter to start the contest. Joey Davis made Millsboro pay by hitting an opposite field home run, his 3rd of the tournament, to make it 3-0.
Two batters later Eric Ludman took an ankle-high fastball and golfed it off the screen over the left field walk to make it 4-0, with the lead eventually stretching to 5-0 before Millsboro even reached the plate.
Hardcastle took the early advantage and ran with it, using a powerful fastball and slick change-up to keep Millsboro off balance, recording at least two strikeouts in each of the four innings of the contest, with the only blemish being a solid single by catcher Ethan Watkinson to lead off the 2nd inning. Hardcastle finished with 9 strikeouts with no walks on the night.
Newark National's offense kept pouring it on, collecting back-to-back homers by Hardcastle and Davis in the second inning, Hardcastle's a two-run shot, to boost the lead to 8-0. Two more runs scored in the final two innings before the mercy rule was applied after four innings.
Newark National becomes the second team in Delaware history to three-peat in the state tournament joining M.O.T. from 2007-2009.
The Delaware Champions will face the District of Columbia winners in the first game of Mid-Atlantic Region Pool Play Friday morning at 11:00am in Bristol, Connecticut. The winner of the Mid-Atlantic Regional will advance to next month's Little League World Series in Williamsport, Pennsylvania.
This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.


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'Anything Goes' at the WAA
March 27, 2013 —
WURTSBORO, NY — Under the theme of "Anything Goes," the Wurtsboro Art Alliance (WAA) will present a wide range of eclectic and imaginative works of art by WAA members in April, beginning on April 6 with an opening reception from 2 to 4 p.m. The event is free and open to the public; refreshments will be served.
The alliance's gallery is located at 73 Sullivan St. and is open Saturdays and Sundays from 12 noon to 4 p.m. or by appointment. Email email@example.com, or visit www.waagallery.org.


text: New Report Says Green Card Backlog Could Grow Worse for High-Skilled Immigrants Release Date: 6/13/2012 Media Contacts: Barbara Pruitt, 816-932-1288, email@example.com Anderson, 703-351-5042, email@example.com NFAP report cites Kauffman-funded research that shows more high-skilled immigrants are waiting for green cards; report offers policy reforms to eliminate delays (ARLINGTON, Va. and KANSAS CITY, Mo.) June 13, 2012 – Calling an increase in wait times for high-skilled foreign nationals to get green cards to stay in the United States a threat that could "deprive the country of talented individuals who will choose to develop innovations, make their careers and raise their families in other nations," the National Foundation for American Policy released a report that says wait times are likely to increase in employment-based immigration categories. In "Still Waiting: Green Card Problems Persist for High Skill Immigrants," the NFAP conducted research funded by the Kauffman Foundation that shows wait times may be developing for prospective immigrants in the employment-based first preference (EB-1) category (outstanding researchers and professors, aliens of extraordinary ability), which previously had no backlog. The report also reveals that skilled foreign nationals from countries other than China and India in the employment-based second preference (EB-2) – persons of "exceptional ability" and "advanced degree" holders – will soon experience backlogs. The report calls for reforms to immigration law and highlights current bills, such as the Startup Act, that would help to eliminate the backlog. Read the NFAP Policy Brief


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Quain follows the tracks east, toward the mountains. There was no effort to conceal the tracks. There is a gravelly road so the party can follow on the wagon, but Quain is on foot, so you travel at his speed. About 2 hours later, the tracks leave the road and head downhill toward more difficult terrain, where the wagon and horses cannot follow.
Zarael speaks, "I can stay with the wagon and give you my defensive buffs (i.e. mage armor) or I can accompany you and use them on myself. Let me know your choice." He only has 1 memorized at the moment.
|Menas Kriger
"Cast your protections and stay with the wagon Mage," speaking once again with scorn, "you would only be a distraction in combat hugging someones knees and crying."
There are two spells Menas would be interested in but they are both significantly higher level than would make sense at this stage, Greater Magic Weapon and Overland Flight would both be very useful but are 4th and 5th level spells so doubtful that even if he could cast them he would.
Your magic armor spell would be most beneficial to our monk. Justified responds,looking unhappily at the barbarian. Thank you for the offer.
I would be very happy with Protection Arrows at the moment...
|Kwin Avassar
With a look of mild amusement, Kwin says "It sounds like we are decided, then. Zarael, please do stay with the wagon. The rest of us will move on and deal with the bandits. We will return as soon as we are able."
Hat is on a business trip, but I suspect will be fine with the plan of him getting Mage Armor, and us moving on towards the bandit camp.
Justified adds to the developing plan. I never was the most quiet of warriors, and in this armor I am afraid I will be somewhat loud. I will take the rear guard. Just tell me how far back you want me and I will do my best to not step on every twig we come across.
Bald monk eyes first the wagon, and then the elf suspiciously for a few moments. His gaze then switches to the tall, black haired Shoanti warrior, ending on bewildered face of little Kwin. Finally he breaks the silence: "I tend to agree with my...colleagues here. Cast your spells on us in the way you deem as most beneficial mage, and wait for us here. We will return shortly."
Devoid of any facial expression, he turns back to Justified: "You do raise a valid concern. However, I do not feel I am the most knowledgable person on that subject. From what we have seen previously, it would seem that halfling here is the one to provide expertise on that specific subject."
Zarael casts Mage Armor on Haterivet and wishes the party luck. You follow the tracks for 2 more hours off road, as twilight begins to set in. You follow carefully on the rocky terrain and dried mud, before hearing noises and seeking cover among a copse of dead trees. What you see is an odd circle of stone rocks/boulders about 2' high, wherein lie bound a human male, female, and child. Around the circle are four bestial savage humanoids, with green-gray skin and greasy black hair, easily recognizable as orcs! They stab at the bound humans with the flat of their falchions, as they laugh and point to the two fire pits that flank the circle of stone. Occasionally, one of the orcs pulls some horse flesh roasting in the fire pit and eats it in front of the humans, causing them to cry and scream, with no hope in sight, only inciting the orcs to more laughter and enjoyment of their game. You see two other orcs standing at the entrance to a cave, presumably on guard duty, not participating in the game, armed with longbows. The cave tunnel turns so you cannot see further in. You are about 110' from the nearest orc.
What do you do?
|Kwin Avassar
Kwin shakes his head in disgust at the gruesome display. Really? he thinks. That's what passes for entertainment out here? I'm surprised these orcs haven't killed themselves and saved us the trouble.
In a whisper to the others, he asks Do you want me to go down the canyon and see if I can sneak along the wall there?, indicating the wall to the left of the cave mouth. I'm not sure how close I could get, but I might be able to engage the archers quickly.
Gazing through the trees, Haterivet surveys the scene briefly. hearing Kwin's suggestion he turns to him and whispers in a low, even voice: "I agree Kwin, maybe even if the ranger or Menas try to sneak out towards right side?"
He casts an inquisitive look towards Menas and Quain, before returning his attention to the scene in front of him. He tries to controls his feelings, in order to study the situation in detail, trying to find his advantage, or foresee any potential traps.
Perception Take 20, while Kwin (and maybe someone else, sneaks away
How large is the entrance to the cave - for medium sized creatures or larger? Could it be collapsed maybe? Are there any signs of dug up, concealed holes on our way in? Some signs of (semi-domesticated) animal presence?
As quietly as he can manage, while still being heard by Kwin, he mouths Go quickly. Be careful. And just before Kwin departs Justified lays a hand on the halfling's arm and adds. And be deadly.
After an initial view to get the lay of the land and positions of the prisoners and combatants, Justified stands in cover, listening to, but not watching the Orcs. He works to stay calm, knowing that with every scream of the humans there is a chance he will run towards the orcs.
|Menas Kriger
Quain mutters in answer: "If I remember well, I spotted 6 or 7 sets of tracks. That means there may be at least one more Ork in the cave. Maybe the leader plus some females. They are also well organized with sentries and weapons. If you want to sneak, let me ready my bow. I may be able to take down one of them from here if they seem to notice you."
Still not taking his eyes of the orcs, Haterivet responds to Menas briefly and in a very low voice: "It seems that the fire on the right is much closer to the wall near the cave mouth. That would mean higher chance of them detecting you. Aside from those spears, I do not see you wielding any real ranged weapon, meaning you will probaly not be able to sneak up close enough to use the spears most effectivelly. So - yes, if you ask me, definitelly a distraction, in order to buy Justified, Quain and me enough time to rush them."
Actually, we do not really need a distraction, but it seems that it is important to most of my colleagues that prisoners remain alive. And in that case, prisoners need a distruction"
He continues his overwatch of the terrain, trying to discern all possibilities.
|Kwin Avassar
It will take me a couple of minutes.
Kwin moves back the way they came, circles wide until he come to the cliff face (to the left of the cave entrance as the characters look at it) and then creeps along the stone wall, deviating only if there are outcroppings that provide better cover as he approaches.
Stealth 1d20 + 12 ⇒ (8) + 12 = 20
Hmmm. Not a great roll. Perhaps you all will get your distraction after all!
|Menas Kriger
"Its probably best if i'm near the front, let me get into position the knock out an archer then Kwin can drop the other. After that when the others turn you can hammer them to my anvil." Menas flashes a grin while strapping on his shield and looseming his gladius. "Or we could hit them from here..." Hefting his javlins as everyone decides...
|Kwin Avassar
How far off the map from E-18 would Kwin have to be to have any sort of cover?
|Menas Kriger
"This isn't going to work, lets just get them... Menas readies his shield then hefts a javlin. "One, Two, THREE!"
move to AI5 and throw a javlin at the H4 archer, attack roll with range penalties 1d20 + 4 - 2 ⇒ (17) + 4 - 2 = 19
damage 1d6 + 2 ⇒ (6) + 2 = 8
The, "1, 2, 3!" was for everyone to get ready, so before the attack roll takes place everyone should decide what the are going to do.
How large is the entrance to the cave - for medium sized creatures or larger? Could it be collapsed maybe? Are there any signs of dug up, concealed holes on our way in? Some signs of (semi-domesticated) animal presence?
Cave entrance is about 10' high. It could be collapsed with high level magic or hours of pickaxe. No concealed holes or animals that you can see. Heck, if they're eating horse flesh, it seems pets wouldn't last long.
move to AI5 and throw a javlin at the H4 archer, attack roll with range penalties.
Menas, you start off where I put you on the map. If you mean you move to AA15, that's 80' of movement from your current position, so you either run for 1 round or double move for 1.5 rounds. If that's the case, we first resolve your movement to see if you're spotted before any attack rolls.
Menas Kriger wrote:move to AI5 and throw a javlin at the H4 archer, attack roll with range penalties.Menas, you start off where I put you on the map. If you mean you move to AA15, that's 80' of movement from your current position, so you either run for 1 round or double move for 1.5 rounds. If that's the case, we first resolve your movement to see if you're spotted before any attack rolls.
Lucendar, Menas wrote he was moving to AI5 and not AA5
Startled by Menas move, Quain moves to (AL,-6) loading an arrow into his bow. As he rounds the trees, he fires at Menas target if it is still standing and at the Orc in R9 if not.
Bow Attack 1d20 + 5 - 2 ⇒ (10) + 5 - 2 = 13 damage 1d6 + 3 ⇒ (6) + 3 = 9
|Kwin Avassar
Double move to AK-7, drawing his magical dagger as he goes.
Cursing the impetuous barbarian under his breath "This man shall be the death of us all...", Haterivet grasps his double weapon stronger, and springs from his hiding place. Clearing the trees, he jogs towards closest orc in a straight line, across the painfully open terrain.
No sneaking, no scouting, no patience....hell we could have waited them all to go to sleep, before attacking. I know, probably some of the prisoners would be dead 'til then, but they're dead anyway. And how hard would it be for Kwin and me to slit some sleeping orc throats!? But no, we have to do it, the "interesting way"...
Mumbling all the way, Haterivet double-moves to AE -3 (or AC -3, not sure if my first two squares are difficult terrain or not)
Summary of Surprise Round:
Menas moves up and throws javelin (range 30') at archer in H4 (135' away), so the range penalty is -8, not -2 and hits him but does not penetrate his hide armor.
Same result with Quain's bow shot.
The rest of the party moves up.
Orcs growl, as they realize they are under attack!
Haterivet: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (4) + 4 = 8
Justified: 1d20 + 2 ⇒ (15) + 2 = 17
Kwin: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (6) + 3 = 9
Menas: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (10) + 3 = 13
Quain: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (5) + 4 = 9
Orcs: 1d20 ⇒ 15
Orcs archers: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (12) + 4 = 16
Initiative Order Round 1:
Orc archers
Justified, I don't see any equipment on your sheet. Or how you calculate 20 AC or 30 speed. Please advise/amend before you post your action for Round 1.
|Menas Kriger
I am using amentum with my javlins which makes them martial weapons but increases the range to 50ft, i thought they were within 100ft of me but i'm on my phone so its hard to count squares when they are small.
|Menas Kriger
Justified advances with a double move directly towards the closest Orc, holding his pole are ready in both hands. He will yell a taunt at them hoping some will charge him.
Come to me1 Come to your end, murdering bandits!
Okay, Justified, I have your armor at 18 (+6 armor, +2 Dex); a glaive is a 2-handed weapon, can't wield it with a heavy shield.
Menas screams and Justified moves up, alerting the orcs to an attack. Two of the orcs move to the merchant and his family and grab them, using them as human shields from any more ranged weapons! The archer hurt by Menas, shoots him, with his composite longbow but the arrow bounces off his armor. The second archer shoots Justified, screaming "Die, human scum! I will add your skull to my collection!" The arrow penetrates deeply into Justified's ribcage, causing a grievous wound.
Menas attack: 1d20 + 3 - 2 + 2 ⇒ (10) + 3 - 2 + 2 = 13
Justified attack: 1d20 + 3 + 2 ⇒ (15) + 3 + 2 = 20
Damage: 1d8 + 2 + 2 ⇒ (5) + 2 + 2 = 9
The two last orcs move up, drawing their falchions and stand shoulder to shoulder, forming some type of defensive wall.
Party is up!
|Menas Kriger
Justified is a lot further forward than i though he would be, so i'm going to change my plans.
Knowledge local, have i heard of these orcs before, do they have a favourite tactic or have i got any idea about tgeir class levels? 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (9) + 4 = 13
Reaching for another javlin through reflex Menas see's the arrow slam into Justified, disregarding the archer he rushes to Justified side and holds his shield ready to ward off attacks from them both.
Double move to W8. Will be using shield bearer trait if its worth it.
|Menas Kriger
Its to late to edit my action but i have use shield bearer on my turn, so i have to activate it before the orcs go. I will use my 1/day ability to protect justified and increase his AC by 2 for one turn.
Haterivet shudders seeing one of the arrows strike Justified penetreting deeply. For a brief moment he considers the idea of charging the two orcs in front of pole-wielding Shoanti warrior, but seeing them waving their falchions menacingly, he reconsiders, and moves towards the orcs in a more cautious way, ready for action, if they would to suddenly spring attack.
Move to Y3, Ready action vs (potential) orc charge
|Kwin Avassar
Kwin will double move to AC-6, dagger still at the ready.
Damage for shortbow: 1d6 + 3 ⇒ (4) + 3 = 7
Quain's arrow hits the archer, but he refuses to die, though he is bleeding profusely!
Did Menas drop his pack gear? I will assume so. Otherwise, he can only move 40' as a double move and not reach Justified.
Round 2: Orcs' turn!
The wounded archer shoots Quain:
Attack: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (14) + 3 = 17
Damage: 1d8 + 2 ⇒ (2) + 2 = 4
The other archer shoots Justified and moves 20' closer, but misses this time!
Attack: 1d20 + 3 + 2 ⇒ (4) + 3 + 2 = 9
The orcs with the prisoners double move back into the cave, commanding the family to follow them, using the prisoners as shields, with the mother carrying the baby.
The other 2 orcs continue the same pose, grunting and baring their teeth at the party, as they grip their falchions tightly!
Party is up!
I think Justified was up before the Orcs, but I was planning to delay anyway since Menas was using his shield for my benefit.
Justified comes out of delay saying quickly to Menas Ignore these and move to my left side. Try to take the archer with a javelin. He moves a single move to diagonally up and to his left S5 and takes the ready action in case an orc grows bold and approaches.
|Menas Kriger
I think i can charge to M2 past the fire in a straight line but its a close angle so i am not sure, if not i will throw.
Seeing the prisoners being dragged into the cave Menas drops his javlin and charges the injured Orc, swinging his shield savagely with both hands, "DIE!"
To hit 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (11) + 7 = 18
Damage 1d4 + 4 ⇒ (3) + 4 = 7
|Kwin Avassar
Silently Kwin pads forward. He doesn't say a single word and he does not charge in directly, but he continues to close the distance to the orcs nonetheless.
Double move to U-5.
Noticing the arrow striking, but not downing orc archer in front of him, monk charges towards him in a straight line. He charges with his strange looking weapon (monk spade) poised for the thrust, and just moments before the actual strike, he transfers the weapon to his left hand, hoping to distract the orc just enough in order for his unarmed strike to punch trough.
Charge to M3
Attack roll: 1d20 + 4 + 2 ⇒ (15) + 4 + 2 = 21
Damage: 1d6 + 3 ⇒ (3) + 3 = 6


text:
There is no shortage of debates in the world that will never be resolved. At this point in my life, I steer clear of discussions on the death penalty, abortion, and the existence of God because people are so entrenched in their opinions -- right or wrong-- that there seems to be no room left for intelligent discourse. But in all those arguments, at least I know what people are disagreeing about. The current "rape joke" debate in the news, however, seems to be a volatile convergence of deeply-held convictions minus the framework of any organized discussion. Quite simply, I don't fully understand what either side is trying to prove. Yes, I do, generally, but not when you nail down specifics like you should in any reasoned debate.
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"We'll establish rules later. Just know for now that you're wrong and I hate you."
After all, any non-sociopath agrees that rape is awful, and most people believe that in America, at least, you can say whatever shitty thing you want even if you're not a comic. So what are we arguing about? To answer that, let's jump back a bit. Although this debate is not new, it reared its head a little over a year ago when Daniel Tosh apparently told some rape jokes onstage. I don't know what that consisted of exactly, but when he got heckled by an offended woman in the audience he responded it would be funny if she got gang-raped. Anyone want to defend that "joke"? I don't. I haven't met anyone who thinks that was a funny or intelligent thing to say. It doesn't make me laugh, and unlike much of the material on his innocuous TV show, it is highly offensive.
Enter blogger Lindy West, who wrote an article I agree with almost entirely. She called Tosh out on his shitty joke but also acknowledged he had every right to tell a shitty, offensive joke. (Agree!) She also pointed out that words have consequences and that anyone who was rightly offended by his hurtful hackery had a right to criticize him for it even if that led to the termination of his show. (Agree again.) This was an article and a debate that made sense to me -- because it was joke-specific. Anyone could sit down and debate the merits, or lack thereof, of what Tosh had done (the gang-rape comment, at least). But in the months that followed, and especially recently after a debate with comic Jim Norton, the discussion has lost all focus. It has devolved into a senseless and unrelated screaming match between the First Amendment and "rape culture." It is an argument that leads to neither consensus nor illumination on either side.
That's why I'd ask anyone engaging in this debate to focus and be mindful of these following questions in the hope that all those spinning their wheels will at least take us someplace helpful:
4What Are Rape Jokes?
Here is the first problem with this debate. What the consensual-fuck is a rape joke? I don't hear a lot of them. Are we talking about stand-up bits that involve the concept of rape? Are we discussing the use of the word rape? In Lindy West's original column on Tosh, she linked some stand-ups talking about rape that she purportedly did not find offensive. Yet, I'm sure there are some who would have a problem with those links. Here's a bit she did not link to from the late Patrice O'Neal talking about how doesn't want to date a woman not hot enough to be raped. Is this a rape joke? (Jump to 4:58)
To me, this bit satirizes how awful the male psyche is. It is critical of men who care more about the public's perception of their girlfriend as arm candy than their girlfriend's own safety. That's what I take from that bit, anyway. But others may see it differently and find it highly offensive. I can understand that. We could debate it, but at least it would then be an argument about a piece of art. We can debate the intent, effect, and execution of this bit that involves concepts of rape, because we all know what we're talking about even if we don't agree.
OK, now let's remove the Patrice bit and talk about "rape jokes" in general. Pro or con?! What does that even mean? How can you answer without the specifics? I've heard Jew jokes that are hateful and those that are funny. Homophobic gay jokes where the punchline is little more than "Ha, faggots are funny" to legitimately funny ones. Indeed, on every subject, I've heard jokes I approve and disapprove of. There are jokes that are healing and harming about everything. I can't debate the merits of "rape jokes" unless you tell me what the joke is. And here's the important part: neither can anyone else.
The rape joke debate is not like the death penalty debate where lethal injection versus electric chair doesn't make a difference. Here, specifics matter. Art can handle any topic well and disgracefully. Answer me this: How do you feel about movies regarding radical medical techniques? Oh, before you answer I should probably tell you if I'm talking about Lorenzo's Oil, in which a family works with a chemist to devise an oil that halts a destructive illness or The Human Centipede, where a mad scientist stitches three people together mouth to anus. Seriously, before we start shouting can we go case-by-case and explain what specific jokes we're talking about?
Not the same.
3 Why Just Rape Jokes?
Why are we just talking about rape jokes? There is no shortage of absolutely horrible, terrible things in the world that comics joke about. Why are we singling out rape? Here, unlike the question above, I at least know what the answer is. Some have said that it's because rape jokes contribute to rape culture. That there are many women who have been raped. Those women could be sitting in the audience and continue to live in shame and fear by hearing such comedy.
There are men who reject that argument, and they do so for hateful, wrongheaded reasons. These are the men who deny the problem of rape and who are unsympathetic to these issues. They are men like the piles of human garbage who attacked Ms. West in the most savage and disgusting ways online using their big, powerful Internet man muscles. Nothing these cretins have to say matters or should be part of this debate. The cause being supported by the "anti-rape joke" contingent is noble and right and not open to debate.
But I do find a hole in the logic that we can limit this discussion to rape jokes. You can craft an argument for how any offensive joke is bad for society. In the discussion, West says rape jokes are different than Holocaust jokes because there will be more rape victims than Holocaust survivors in the audience. Well, I guess, maybe, depending on the audience and the year of the show and a bunch of other variables already involved in this already too uncertain and nebulous debate. But I'm not sure that kind of math should be the lynchpin of her argument.
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Probably shouldn't be necessary for any debate about speech, art, and rape.
Let's take the movie Borat. In it, Sacha Baron Cohen as the lead character, Borat, describes an event happening after "the Jews caused 9/11." The point of that joke is to satirize Borat's bigotry for perpetuating or even believing such a lie. I got the joke, but it made me uncomfortable. I knew the film would be seen in places in the world, even places in America, where people actually would believe that. It would give aid and ammunition to those who seek to commit hate crimes and do harm. Bad can come from that joke. But it's a joke. And where I personally would draw the line can't be the standard.
Or how about Chris Rock's bit about the difference between black people and "niggers"? That's one of the most important comedy bits in the past 20 years. Couldn't that be embraced by those seeking justifications to hate blacks? Or those who are looking for a justification to call certain blacks "niggers" and get away with it?
When making jokes about rape, racism, child abuse, the holocaust, 9/11, AIDS, there is no shortage of ways to trivialize serious issues while aiding and abetting the worst people in the world. My personal rule when approaching those areas is that it's alright to joke about anything -- as long as you can make it funny. Of course, the darker the issue, the greater the challenge, and you better make sure the joke works. West is right when she says that most comics hit the rape topic in merely hacky attempts that aren't justified. But a broader statement that hack comics hit all these topics in failed attempts to be edgy would also be true. And arguments can be crafted that in doing so they contributed to all sorts of ideas and cultures that are bad for society. Nothing is gained in a debate about the responsibilities of artists and the appropriate responses of the viewing public by limiting the discussion solely to rape.