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White House Threatens Action Against China Over Corporate Espionage
Jason Mick
February 21, 2013 1:33 PM
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One third of the world's cyberattacks come from China, Chinese government feigns ignorance
In a newly published document entitled "
" [PDF], the White House threatens China and other countries with both trade and diplomatic consequences if
cyberattacks on U.S. corporations
, media,
and advocacy groups
continue to be traced to their doorstep.
I. Brazen Attacks by Chinese Continue
At a White House press conference,
Attorney General Eric Holder
paints a grim picture of the state of cyberdefense, commenting, "There are only two categories of companies affected by trade-secret theft: those that know they've been compromised and those that don't know it yet. A hacker in China can acquire source code from a software company in Virginia without leaving his or her desk."
Many top companies, including General Motors Comp. (
), E. I. DuPont De Nemours and Comp. (
), Google Inc. (
), and American Superconductor, Corp. (
), have seen trade secrets stolen by hackers in China. At the press conference John Powell, general counsel for American Superconductor, shared a particularly troubling tale of how a big Chinese wind company -- formerly the largest client of his firm -- recruited a former employee and used their knowledge to remotely steal trade secrets. He
, "It's a real threat and it's a really costly threat."
AG Eric Holder blasted Chinese cyberagression and called for tough action if attacks continue.
[Image Source: AP]
Pressure is mounting on the U.S. federal government, particularly the Obama administration, to give a stronger response in the wake of brazen attacks from China on U.S. media agencies
The New York Times
The Wall Street Journal
Reports have emerged that these attacks may all have been the
work of an elite unit of Chinese military hackers
. While the U.S.
works hard to imprison
many of its most talented
"black hat" hackers
, China reportedly goes to great lengths to recruit its own black hats, lavishing them with rock star salaries and other perks.
II. Government Struggles With How to Counter Chinese Aggression
The document is ambiguous on how the U.S. will respond, but it makes it clear that Washington D.C. is well aware of the attacks from China on top U.S. corporations. Currently, the ability to mount a strong counteroffensive is stifled by the relative "greenness" of America's cyber-fighting force. This force is composed mostly of straight-shooting college IT types, many of whom have never hacked into a system they weren't allowed to.
Over the last year, the
National Security Agency
(NSA) has been showing up at top hacker conventions trying to convince more talented hackers to join its ranks -- but such efforts remain in their infancy and are being heavily stifled by animosity from the hacker community over punitive computer crimes law enforcement.
Security firm Akama Technologies, Inc. (
) estimates that in 2012 33 percent of attack traffic originated from China. By contrast, the U.S. -- in second place -- only claimed 13 percent of global attack contract. Chinese government officials claim that hacking is illegal in China and that its own companies are also victimized by their domestic hackers. However, many of the attacks appear to be geared towards suppressing dissidents or attacking U.S. media entities that expose secrets of Chinese politicians.
Chinese hackers are responsible for a third of the world's cyberattacks. [Image Source: Kealtu]
The result is that the cyberwar between the U.S. and China is playing out as a classic bully-victim situation. China denies everything while constantly abusing both U.S. government agencies and private companies. And experts believe the U.S. is doing far precious little to fight back.
Last week, President Obama signed a cybersecurity executive order calling for voluntary corporate information sharing on security risks. Congress is in the process of establishing a more rigid framework for the sharing.
James Lewis
, a former top State Department official who is now a cybersecurity specialist at the
Center for Strategic and International Studies
, praised the Obama administration's actions in an interview with The Wall Street Journal, stating, "This is what you have to do to get the Chinese to behave differently. You've got to keep pushing on them; you've got to keep grinding."
Trade pacts like the
Trans-Pacific Partnership
may provide a forum to push for stricter intellectual property protections. And Mr. Lewis suggests that the U.S. could put pressure on China by denying Chinese companies access to American banks, or by denying Chinese researchers visas, if attacks continue.
The White House {PDF]
The Wall Street Journal
"The whole principle [of censorship] is wrong. It's like demanding that grown men live on skim milk because the baby can't have steak." -- Robert Heinlein
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Q&A Friday #112: Should The GOP Give Up On Social Issues?
Question: It seems pretty obvious that Romney avoiding social issues only allowed to the Obama campaign to define him in the eyes of the electorate(and Akin, Murdoch, etc. didn't exactly help). Going forward do you feel like the Republican party should switch their positions on social issues and take the ideological stance of limited government protecting individual rights as they do with economic issues, or do you feel that Republicans should stay the course, and strongly define their position on social issues for the next election? — Daytrip
The GOP's last two candidates for President have been establishment-approved, moderate, "electable" candidates who've barely talked about social issues.
Both of them lost.
Then, what do we hear? We need to choose an establishment-approved, moderate, "electable" candidate who barely talks about social issues.
The Republican Party is a three legged stool: fiscal conservatism, social conservatism, and a muscular foreign policy. It's not time to abandon one of those legs; it's time to run a candidate who does a better job of representing all three parts of the GOP coalition — and social conservatives are not a small block of voters. Keep in mind that just over 78% of Americans are Christians and that number swells to roughly 85% of black and Hispanic voters. If you're looking to do minority outreach, social conservatism is a good place to start.
That doesn't mean that we have to be preachy, extreme, rub it in anybody's face or make social issues the center of the GOP's agenda, but Christians should feel like the GOP is the party of traditional marriage, life, and Christianity.
Also see...
Even though my father, brother, uncles and grandfather were in the military, I seldom handled guns growing up. That's because unlike many of the other people in my family, I've...Read More
John Hawkins
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subset: commoncrawl


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With spring training around the corner, it's time for prospect rankings to be released. Late last summer, Phillies Nation's Ben Seal ranked the Phillies top 25 prospects. Since the list, a few trades have been made, but that didn't stop the Phillies from having multiple top prospects on MLB.com's and AOL Fan House'slists.
ESPN's Keith Law ranked the Phillies farm system 24th in baseball. That's a huge jump from last year, when the Phillies system was in the top 10. As we all know by now, many prospects were traded. However, the following list proves that the Phillies still have top talent in their farm system.
Domonic Brown (OF): Ranked 14th on MLB.com, 19th on Fan House
Brown is currently the best prospect in the Phillies organization. With Jayson Werth's future in jeopardy, Brown could be an every day major-leaguer as early as 2011. He hit .313 last year and has five-tool potential.
Phillipe Aumont (P): Ranked 47th on MLB.com, 29th on Fan House
Aumont has had some injuries issues, but with his hard fastball and great slider, he can be nasty on the mound. The Mariners converted him to a reliever due to injuries, but the Phillies will try to convert him back to a starter.
Anthony Gose (OF): Ranked 46th on Fan House
Many scouting reports are saying that he is still "raw," but he has blazing speed. He can be scary on the base-paths.
Tyson Gillies (OF): Ranked 50th on Fan House
Although known for his speed and defense, Gillies hit .341 last year. His offense continues to progress, and like Gose, can be scary on the base-paths, as he stole 44 bases last year.
Former Phillies prospects: Kyle Drabek ranked 17th on MLB.com and 15th on Fan House. Michael Taylor ranked 35th on MLB.com and 38th on Fan House.
MLB's and AOL's lists are fairly different, but they have something in common: they both notice the potential in these young Phillies prospects. The Phillies also have several players, like Sebastian Valle and Trevor May, who did not make the list, but still have loads of potential.
84 Comments
I was surprised to see Fan House rank Aumont, Gose and Gillies that high, but hopefully they're right.
I don't mean to trash your effort because thanks for pulling this together for a post, but both of these lists are pretty wonky. AOL's is compiled by Franklin Pilliere, who made a big stink on twitter about how it was going to be controversial, and he seems to have designed it for that purpose. I don't think Gillies or Gose would crack the top 50 on most lists, at least not yet. And MLB has had a history of fairly questionable prospect rankings.
That being said, your main point stands in that the Phillies do have a strong system; it's just mostly centered around raw, single A guys right now. As someone pointed out to me today, not many people other than Keith Law would rank the system as low as 24.
Great lists, although I feel that Trevor may could earn a place on the list very soon. He's a guy that we don't talk nearly enough about, but I am a huge Trevor May fan. With a bit more time in the minors, I think he could end up surprising a lot of people. He already has some filthy stuff, but needs some more time to develop.
I think this again emphasizes the point that we didn't just get "junk" in the Cliff Lee trade..
These prospects are on SOME list for a reason…and I'm sure that it's not an accident..
Based on what I've read and what I've heard about the guy….I am real excited to see what this kid Aumont can do.
These lists are "wonky"??? And that whole WAR thing ISN'T wonky???
I appreciate stats, lists, and rankings as much as the next guy. Some of it is more useful than others. But I think there is WAY too much emphasis on just the numbers.
Somebody yesterday said it best when he made the point that most of the time you can tell how good or bad a player is…just by watching him play the game.
Stats and rankings are good to a point, but I agree that the best way to determine ability is to actually watch the player.
Years ago, I saw a Greenville Braves game (AA), and picked the three players I thought might make the bigs. Two were Jeff Blauser and Ron Gant. The third I attached a caveat to: "He'll have to improve his control, or he won't last." That was pitcher Kevin Coffman, who did make the majors, but never improved his control and had an extremely short career. The rest of the team played like minor leaguers or worse. They could generate numbers, but only because the opposition wasn't very good, either.
Even we non-scouts can usually pick out true talent. Gant, for instance, was not producing spectacular stats when I saw him. But when he swung the bat, you just knew he had what it takes, and things would eventually click for him.
Aumont better turn out to be the Lebron james of pitching since we gave up Lee and barring injuries a rotation that you could consider almost a Lock for a 3rd straight WS.. sadly i dont see us getting back
Keith Law ranked our Farm System 10th last year…. but probably also ranked our MLB team like 17th .. because he's a jackass
Do we have the greatest farm system in the league.. no … but we're better than most teams at drafting athletes, and developing talent … and our Big League club is better than most others so we don't need to depend on our farm as heavily right now
Three players that I saw last year, in person, that really, really impressed me..
Domonic Brown.. easy choice
P- Yohan Flande, ended the year at AA Reading.. this will be a big year for him, to either break out, or just fall into the pack
CF- Quintin Berry, hit .266 for Reading.. stole 48 bases, .355 OBP … struck out too much … basically a light-hitting CF, but he can FLY …. covers a ton of ground in the Outfield, and if he can start making more contact, his speed will leg him out some hits
Lebron James is the Jose Reyes of basketball ….. dancing on the bench when your team is winning by a few
Chuck, this has nothing to do with WAR, I'm just saying that these lists are a too high on Gillies and Gose, and probably Aumont. Watching a player and looking at his numbers should be held in equal regard – both are vital to evaluating a player.
The truth is Gillies and Gose arent rated that high is so true and either is Aumont, the bulk of this system is at a ball so this is a big year for them after the year we could have a really good system or bottom of the barrell, you have valle, sanchez, gose, may just to mention a few who could move the system up or down depending on there progress.
Also Domingo Santana, who is very raw but a very intriguing prospect, and Jiwan James
Keith Law's Phillies Organization Top 10 List:
Philadelphia Phillies
1. Domonic Brown, RF
2. Juan Ramirez, RHP
3. Philippe Aumont, RHP
4. Anthony Gose, RF
5. Tyson Gillies, CF
6. Sebastian Valle, C
7. Trevor May, RHP
8. Scott Mathieson, RHP
9. Antonio Bastardo, LHP
10. Jiwan (Nathaniel) James, OF
In the latest Sports Illustrated …..as per 22 Gm's and asst Gm's,The Phils were tied at 4th with the Rockies for best farm system.
Pretty good,better than I would have guessed.
Sorry…Should have been Sporting News.
It will be very interesting to evaluate this whole deal in 3 or 4 years. I'm OK with the whole thing now despite having wanted to Keep Lee.
Marson, Donald, Carrasco, Knapp, Drabek, Taylor and Arnaud for
Halladay, Francisco, Aumonte, Gillis, Ramirez and one year of Lee.
Basically 7 prospects for a CY pitcher for 5 years, a 4th ML outfielder and 3 prospects.
I would've wanted Saunders over Gillies, but we'll see.
We'll find out a lot more about Gillies at Reading this year. Going to be a fun year in the minors.
Anyone see the Braves yount outfield Heyward's stats? Alefty taht hits lefties over .300 is pretty darn impessive. Braves are movin on up.
BTW,those GM's rated Amaro as as #3 best for -Best executive at making trades.(Beinfest from Marlins,#1,and Theo Epstein Red Sox #2)
I realize that these lists and WAR are two different things..
The point I was making is that stats list and rankings are all great.. I read them, study them and appreciate them.
This post by Amanda is about rankings and lists for some of our minor league prospects. They have merit.
WAR is about stats.. WAR has merit..
The point I was making is that stats AND lists are fine….but that, more importantly, you can get a pretty good idea if a player is good or not…just by seeing that player in person.
The Phils don't really have any infield prospects that could hit the majors in the next two years. It makes sense why they locked down Polanco for 3 years.
32 teams, 25 men per roster, plus at least 3 levels of minors. While I love baseball, and spend more time on it than I should, I still couldn't name half the starting mlb LFs from 2009. No chance that I'm going to catch more than a few games of anyone not in the NL East (except BOS and NYY), especially starting pitchers. Where the stats come in for me is a quick screening process (WAR, UZR,…., as well as traditional), then make an effort to watch the guys who make leaps (up or down). They are a start only, got to see the guys play (Ethier, Kinsler actually better than their very good stats, M Holiday, Bay, not so much).
I would think the Phils are going to look for infielders this year, but their direction over the past several years has been to pick the best athletes available, regardless of position. Working so far.
Edumacate the fools so they can cry about losing people. Give me Ruiz over 1000000 Marsons. Stooges.
But he hits 50 homers! But you are in last ( Piazza)
I let the people who run the team deal with it.
Lee trade OK 100%
Keith Law rates J.C. Ramirez the 101st best prospect in baseball, which is a lot better than I thought.
"Juan Ramirez, RHP, Philadelphia: Ramirez was prospect No. 101 this year. I wrote up one more player than I needed for the rankings, and he was the guy I cut to make the final 100. Ramirez came to the Phillies from the Mariners in the Cliff Lee trade, in which the Phillies added three prospects to replace the three they dealt to Toronto for Roy Halladay. Ramirez is slightly ahead of Phillippe Aumont — who was also involved in that trade — and has a better chance to work as a starter, whereas the Mariners already felt that Aumont's future was in the bullpen. Ramirez has No. 2 starter stuff if he shows he can stay in the rotation; his fastball is up to 96 mph and he'll sit 91-94 with some glove-side run, and he shows an above-average slider at 77-80 with a very sharp break. His changeup is rudimentary, and he likes to go to the slider in changeup situations. So far he hasn't missed as many bats as a guy with his raw stuff should miss, with most of that trouble coming from left-handed hitters. He's very skinny, listed at 6-foot-3, 175 pounds, and his arm slot is just below three-quarters, both of which would point toward a relief role. In his favor, he was just 20 in 2009, pitching in a great hitters' park in High Desert, and should get to move to a saner environment in Reading in 2010 to show whether he projects as more than just a very good reliever."
and for psujoe, Michael Saunders is 74th on Keith Law's list while Gillies and Aumont aren't ranked.
Quentin Berry is a non-prospect. He won't even make the Phillies top 25 prospects.
And we're spending this much time talking about Keith Law….Why???
Looking at lists always leads me to wonder how much actual scouting the compilers actually did. I'm sure that Keith Law and others haven't made trips to dozens of minor league stadiums to view hundreds of minor league games. These lists are probably put together by consulting a few favorite scouts and looking at some statistics. They can be biased; they can be inaccurate for all kinds of other reasons.
If the Phils' scouting department wants a specific player, they probably have actually seen the guy and can maybe make better judgements. These lists are useful from a fan's perspective, but major league scouts aren't going to rely solely on lists. Let's be thankful for that.
that might be true.. im just saying what i saw with my own eyes..
Berry was a difference maker in the Eastern League.. which is a good league, Im not calling on him for All-Star games, just saying he's a good baseball player
He's "young", to my eyes, on that day.. had very good defensive instincts, and great speed
plenty of room to grow, even if he's just someone's 5th OF later in life, you need them on your team too
I've heard good things about Berry…I've never seen him play.
Hopefully, he'll turn out to be something….having "options" is always good.
By prospect standards Berry is too old – 26 – considering he puts out pretty much league average production in AA. He'd be worth a late-season call up as a pinch runner, but that's about it.
This is the problem with the whole "I just watch the players" mindset, by the way. Your sample size as a fan is never big enough. I probably watch 145ish Phillies games on TV a year, maybe 7 or 8 more on the radio, but between confirmation bias, unreliable memory (ask any lawyer about how awful eyewitnesses are), and the times I was drinking, I wouldn't dare make a conclusive player evaluation without consulting the numbers (obviously in the case of the Phillies I know all of the players anyway, but you get the point).
Consulting the numbers is fine….it SHOULD be done..
All any of us are saying is that it seems like their is too much emphasis on stats…to make conclusive decisions….as opposed to "seeing for yourself"..
You can get a real feel for a player by watching EVERYTHING he does….every movement…both on and off the diamond.
Sometimes…by watching a player…you can "just tell" that he's gonna be something.
Right.. but from looking at his numbers.. seeing his speed on paper and in the boxscore
and then actually watching him create plays in person, on the field, I saw Berry as a productive player
A problem with looking too much into the numbers is that it would've told you that Chad Billingsley and Clayton Kershaw were/are dominating pitchers
In reality, they choke when the spotlight gets bright, and neither is anything amazing …
Kershaw will be, he's still a kid … but Billingsley's K-rates had people drooling over him at times.. Im sure his STATS (not to pick on WAR specifically) make him look great.. but when you watch him, you see there is more to it
Phylan you are so right Berry is not a prospect, fast outfielder who cant hit are a dime a dozen. The phillies lead the majors in drafting toolsy fast outfielder, who cant hit. Golson prime example now we have berry, D'MEYERS, james and others, wish they would take some infielders.thats the way to stay good for a long time to be able to replace older players with young ones, case in point if we had a good thirdbase prospect we could have use the extra money for the starter or bullpen. if we had a 412 thousand dollar player at third that would have freed up money.same for the outfield had to go after ibanez and overpaid , if we had a prospect that was ready it would have given us more leverage in other areas to spend.If you think of it no shortstop prospects since 1999 pick of rollins.
Don M, I understand your point about solely relying on stats as opposed to trusting your own eyes. I think every team uses a combination of both.
and Chad Billingsley is only 25 years old and in 634 career innings has an ERA of 3.55. Let's give the kid some time before labeling him a choker.
That's a great e
It says a lot about their farm system that they two significant trades, and still have good prospects.
Thats a great example with Kershaw and Billingsley….
Kershaw has TONS of talent…but he's still so young and not seasoned. I have a feeling that he may live up to his potential…not so sure with Billingsley.
Yeah…but you're always going to be weak in some areas…and will have to resort to FAs to make up a roster. ….at least one that can compete as winners.
Here are 2 questions from a Keith Law chat today:
"Michael (Philadelphia)
What do you think of the Phils system below AA ball, I know they have some guys that have high ceilings
Klaw (1:58 PM) A ton. Most are really far away, but guys like Gose, Valle, James, Hudson, Dugan, and so on are really interesting. Just not really a consideration for a list like this.
Tom (PA)
In your opinion, was the half year of Cliff Lee and the four years of Halladay worth it for the Phillies to practically empty their system (besides Brown)?
Klaw (1:33 PM)Yes."
So maybe Keith Law doesn't hate the Phillies as some people seem to believe.
ya look…these types of lists arent designed to please everybody. its impossible to truly represent all the young talent in any sort of exact order. it seems the MLB list was more heavy on 'hitters' which is why the super fast OF types (gillies, gose) didnt make the cut, and why aumont was listed so far down on the MLB list.
im still not thrilled about the lee deal. i wanted as bad as anyone the best 1-2 punch that i DEFINITELY would have ever seen in my lifetime as a past and future phillies fan. even one year. i wanted all my eggs in one basket…but im also a fan, not a businessman, so i understand the move for prospects. the hopeful-optimistic type in me says this– the phil mgmt and scouts and player development HAD to see these guys coming from seattle as pretty close (talent/upside wise) as the guys going to TOR for roy. so im hoping for the best. i do think aumont has great pure stuff, but his body type may not allow him to pitch massive innings as a starter. even if the guy goes to a bullpen role, it will definitely be a great alternative to the outrageous 12mil per season that brad lidge gets for the next 2 years. im excited to see this guy pitch.
Sorry but the Phillies made a huge mistake getting rid of Lee. We just don't have the pitching to win it all. Halladay is great but one pitcher wont do it. Hamels is still up in the air for next season. Blanton is average. Did nothing in the post season. Then who. Should of gotten rid of Blanton and kept Lee. Lee and Halladay wins you the world series. Then you let Lee go at the end of the season. Go after a cheaper free agent pitcher in the off season. Just dont get it. Never will. Not for what they charge to see a game with your family. Phillies just didnt want to spend the money.
Kershaw is dominant and will continue to be. He posted 171 innings with a 2.79 ERA last year. And the numbers tell you why. He struck out almost 10 batters per 9, let up only 0.37 HR per 9 (which is elite). He needs to get his walk rate down a bit, (4.79 BB/9 last year), and his ERA will go up a little bit this year when his BABIP normalizes (.274 in 2009), but he's a great pitcher. I don't think you could've picked a worse example. This is the hazard of going with anecdotal viewing of the players – you're thinking of the rough outings he's had versus the Phillies in recent memory.
Billingsley is also a bad example – he's a guy that scouts will look at and tell you he's going to be dominant, but if you look at the stats for 2009 they're unimpressive. Walk rate of almost 4 per 9, and 8 strikeouts per 9, and .78 homeruns per 9; the xFIP formula says that your ERA with those numbers should be 4.04, and guess what it was in 2009: 4.03. The stat sees the areas where Chad needs to improve. If you were a GM and looked at those numbers, you might not go crazy, but that's why you have to use numbers and scouting (and I mean professional scouting) for proper evaluation.
"We just don't have the pitching to win it all…. One pitcher won't do it"
I could be wrong, but didn't Cole Hamles JUST carry us to a World Series not that many year ago … or is that anceint history already?
"Blanton is average. Did nothing in the postseason."
…you mean when he was getting skipped for starts, and placed into an unfamilier bullpen role?
Jeff.. I think you're missing the point … they COULD spend more money, but to do so, they would charge more for tickets, etc .
So they are trying to give you a competitive team, and still give you a chance to take your family to see a game ….. Instead of one-or-the-other .. they have done a GREAT job of giving us BOTH for the past few years… and they are trying to keep that going
I'm thinking of the rough outing they've had against the Phillies ….. true
I'm thiking of their lack of heart (they'll get a pass cause they're young).. but its the choke under pressure factor, C-U-P
"CUP" ..only I haven't seen a formula to predict 2010 CUP numbers yet.. hopefully next week, or at least by mid-February those numbers will be out
If Kershaw is so "dominant"….then maybe the Dodgers would have faced the Yankees in the World Series..
Game 1 he lasted 4.2 innings…5 earned runs…5 walks…..1 HR allowed.
Game 5 he came in in relief….lasted 2.0 innings….2 ER….1 HR..
He probably shouldn't have started Game 1…that's where Torre made his mistake..he shouldn't have been put into that situation.
Game 5 he basically crumbled under pressure (I was there…it was amazing!!)
I think Clayton Kershaw has TONS of talent…and a lot of potential to be a very good pitcher…but please don't call him dominant..he's not there yet.
Maybe that's anecdotal…the fact that I am using the NLCS as an example…but it's a good example..
Dominant pitchers don't choke like that…twice…in one series.
That's what I'm saying – a 2 game sample size is completely worthless. Not only that, but all this "choker" and "heart" business is sportswriter jargon. You could look at 2 games in any guy's career and say he choked or didn't have the heart or whatever.
Don…I just realized in reading your post that I used CUP too….not realizing your "choke under pressure" phrase..
I used "crumbled under pressure"
I think CUP is soon to be a much sought after stat..
But it doesn't make him a "dominant" pitcher..
A "dominant " pitcher can handle the pressure of the NLCS
Kershaw IS dominant… just not against the Phillies. If anyone in the world of baseball has a biased view of that guy, it's us Phillies fans! He's a SUPERB pitcher. Still young… but he's for real.
He is superb…any manager would love to have him on his staff..
I'm just saying that the guy choked…twice…in the same series.
I would hold off before I labeled him "dominant"
I also think the whole ticket price is a bad grype. Cause the Phillies are at their pinnacle of popularity right now and could jack the prices up to an unreasonable pice and someone will pay it cause it is the NL Champs. So I appreciate that the Phils are not running its fans through the gutter
Your telling me you would rather have 3 years of Blanton then 1 year of Lee. Possibly the greatest 1 2 punch in baseball. Halladay and Lee. That would be great. Blanton is a 4th starter on most teams. Then you let Lee go and sign with another team. Stupid contract to Moyer. What a waste. The Yankees would of kept both. It doesnt happen in a lifetime that you get those two guys on your team. They didnt want to give Drabek away last season. They made a great deal for Lee and everyone was happy after he pitched well. Then you go out and give away another three minors for Halladay including Drabek. Should of done it then. Cost less. Lee is a Philly a guy.
MLB scouts don't evaluate players by a two-game sample. Kicking around Kershaw and Billingsley for their two playoff performances is pretty silly. Even someone as playoff dominant as John Smoltz lost a few games. Hamels pretty much stunk in the playoffs this year, too, even though he made the opposition look sick in 2008. Sometimes losing is not due to "choking," but to having a bad day. Lets see what the future holds for Kershaw and Billingsley before we start labeling.
"CUP" is only protection for an important part of a person's anatomy. It's not a stat I'd rely on.
On most teams, Blanton is higher than a fourth starter. On some, like Washington or Pittsburg he'd be number two.
Look back a bit, Jeff. Blanton was the opening day pitcher for Oakland a few years ago.
Sure, it may have been nice to have kept Lee. But it wasn't going to happen. GET OVER IT!
The Phils still have Hamels, too. Have you forgotten he's won in double figures every complete season he's pitched?
Do you realize that we are not the Yankees? We don't have unlimited money. You have to realize that Cliff Lee and Halladay wasn't going to be on the same team together. That would cost them too much money, and too many prospects. Just be happy we got rid of 1 year of Cliff Lee and some prospects, for 3 years of Roy Halladay, and some prospects.
Nobody is "kicking Kershaw and Billingsley around". I actually think Kershaw is an very good pitcher with a lot of potential. But he was labeled a "dominant" pitcher… he can be at times, I suppose..
I just wouldn't necessarily call him "dominant" though. He didn't show that in the playoffs. He has a ways to go before that's a safe term for him.
Lee is not a "Philly " guy.
He didn't want to stay here bad enough…Three years at 20mil per wasn't good enough for him…so he moved on.
That's his right…he wants CC Sabathia-type money. The Phillies weren't going to give it to him.
The best thing was to deal him while they could still get back some decent prospects.
If you like him so much…and are so disgusted with the Phillies…feel free to root for the Mariners.
And the Mariners are fairly unlikely to sign Lee for a long-term contract as well, although I suppose anything is possible. Of course if all he cares about is getting the most money, he'll join his buddy CC in New York anyway.
Jeff forget it people here work for the phillies. Anyone who wants to win would love to have lee and halliday for a year. what a 1-2 punch. but Don worries he cant afford to go and others just kiss the phillies ass nomatter what they do. Two stinking championships in onehundred and 30 someyears. I want a another world series and lee is a better option than contreas or blanton or moyer or happ to get us there. After this year you take the two first round choices and use the 9 million to get good choices, hard to sign highschool kids or a good international player. now don will tell you only 30 percent make it and others will tell you how great we scout, a million different excuses. But to me you go all out to win or get out of the business. If you own a team and are committed to win you do whatever it takes. This city will pay to see a winner , we proved that by the attendance the last two years. In this day and age you can really get some good kids out of the draft who wont take long to make a impact if you spend the money. Porcello is the prime example. already in the majors and starting, but it took money to buy him out of his college committment, the phillies have failed to do that as I have pointed out before, joe saunders of the angles wanted 75,000 to more to sign they wouldnt do it. he is a nice starter, 4 pick in last draft gibson same thing, workman this years draft out of texas, wanted more to sign they wouldnt he will be a top ten pick.This years starters are scary if hamels doesnt come back we wont win plain and simple but if we had lee we would have the insurance if hamels fails.
Here we go…"People here work for the Phillies".."just kiss the Phillies ass no matter what they do"
Just because I and a few others can see the value in the Lee trade…it's once again assumed that we work for the Phillies…and that we are kissing their asses..
I think all of us would loved to have had Lee and Halladay for a year.. The excitement of that would have been great for any fan.
I really don't want to re-hash all of what happened and the reasoning behind it…
mikemike, Jeff…you guys are smart enough to know all that by now..you just disagree…and that's cool. No problem.
But it's time to MOVE ON, fellas.. seriously…
If you can't just be happy that the Phillies are a better team today than they were the day the WS ended….then I really don't know what else to say.
Halladay, Hamels, Blanton, Happ, Moyer/Contreras/Kendrick….I'll take my chances with that rotation any day.
And as far as ticket prices…"This city will pay to see a winner, we proved that by the attendance the last two years." ….
…Thats's true. But do you really want the people that having been buying a lot of those tickets…the average "Joe Schmoe fan"….to not be able to go because prices are too high??
Do you want Citizens Bank Park filled to the brim with "Yankee-type" fans…the ones that have no heart…and are just at the game becasue it's "hip" or "cool"…and couldn't care less about the Phillies??
If ticket prices…and everything else…go up so much…because of skyrocketing payroll…then that's what will happen.
Alright look. Are we better today than we were the day the season ended? Yes. Would we have EVEN better with Cliff? Yes. So….look at it this way. Its like a Chinese restaurant. Pick one:
1) Keep Cliff for one year ONLY and keep your stud prospects ( don't believe that bull that he was gonna sign the extension);
2) Have Halladayfor 4 years and Lee for one year and decimate your farm system;
3) Have Halladay for 4 years and replace stud prospects with "high middling" prospects?
Now, when you look at it in black and white like that, and reading the recent stuff about the prospects we got, which is encouraging, if you made me choose I would have to choose (3). Which is what Ruben chose.
Maybe the disconnect here, if there is one, is that Ruben felt, and could be right, that Seattle's prospects that we traded for are actually better than we initially thought they were. Phillipe Aumont, if he did not have that arm trouble last year, which is not supposed to be reccurring, would have been regarded as a flat out top 20 stud this year. Gillies stats speak for themselves. Ramirez is one of those "space cadet" (hi Wheels) young guys with great stuff that doesn't know, and may never know, how to pitch. But at least he's got the stuff.
I am starting to feel better and better about this deal every day.
The Dipsy
Cliff Lee WASN'T gonna sign the extension….because it was only for 3 years..
As far as the prospects…I think Ruben and his people did enough homework on these three guys to feel pretty comfortable in making the deal
Like I said yesterday…whether you like "this list" or "that list"…"this ranking" or "that ranking"…. the point is that they are good enough to be on SOME list(s)…
It's not as if Ruben just threw three darts (blind-folded) and the three darts just happened to fall on Aumont, Gillies and Ramirez.
Mikemike, I don't know you, but you are obviously a longtime, very passionate Phils fan. Right now, you are starting to sound like the guy who won the lottery, but is bitching about the taxes. All in gets a quick buzz from casual fans, but proof is in the Marlins, Diamondbacks that it is not a way to run an org long term. Ruben hasn't been perfect, but appears to be doing a nice job balancing the short and long term.
I love going to different stadiums, try to take at least one road trip per year. Go to a Red Sox game – the biggest crowd response is to Sweet Caroline. Yankee & Dodger stadiums are even worse. They've priced the average fan out. On the other hand is Baltimore, which in my mind is the nicest stadium of all (plus they have Guinness on tap). There are more opposing fans that Orioles fans (even for the LAA – couldn't figure that one out). Philly and Stl are the models – great stadiums, competitive teams, comparatively reasonable prices. I'd like it to stay that way, even if it means we only have a very good pitching staff vs a great one.
This post has NOT been sponsored by the Phillies or an associated organization.
Sad case with Baltimore…Camden Yards is a GREAT park…it used to be packed full of O's fans…but now they are so pitiful that the opposing fans just take over..
"but Don worries he cant afford to go"
True.. lets take an average ticket, sections I like are:
210 = $33
315 = $34
so If I take the wife to a game… its $66-68 just for tickets… before that nice little service charge, etc .. so we'll say $75 .. parking will be up again, probably $15, but for this arugment, we'll call it $10
$85 so far… $7 beers, $5 sodas.. we'll say we each have one of each.. that's another $24 …. Chicken Fingers & Fries $7.50 … a Hot Dog and Pretzel $7.50 …
$85 + 24 + 15 = $125 ish …. for a baseball game
Yea.. I worry about not being able to go to a lot of games if the prices keep going up
People act like the Phillies pulled a Rolen-trade here… They didn't abandon a star, and kill any chance of a winning team in the process. They had to empty their farm system to get Roy Halladay… and they tried to get some prospects back BECAUSE they want to keep winning
a 2010 World Series title doesn't mean jacksh!t if we would be a sub.500 team for the next 5-10 years after that … they are trying to make sure that doesn't happen
Exactly…but there are some on here that would gladly accept 5 or even 10 years of lousy sub .500 baseball for another WS title.
Fortunately…with what Ruben has done…we won't have those 5 or 10 years…AND we have a legitimate shot at that title.
I'm happy with the end result… if Rube could have kept Lee here for 2010 that would have been euphoric but I'm convinced that an extension wasn't going to happen. So we had two options: 1. kill the 2010 budget, neglect the farm and collect two draft picks when Lee walks or 2. trade Lee to get back some prospects and free up some cash in the budget to account for unexpected needs in 2010. I would have probably went with option 1 and maybe we could have gotten better prospects but that's the riskier of the two options, for sure… the fact of the matter is that we have enough with Halladay, Hamels, Blanton, Happ and Moyer/Kendrick so extending the budget and neglecting the farm would have been problematic… and Rube was able to lock up this rotation for the next three years at least.
Happy to see Aumont and Gillies on this somewhat "ho-hum" list. A few players I'm excited about: Jon Singleton, Trevor May and Freddy Galvis… gonna miss Taylor/Drabek but I'm sure the Doc will have the right prescription for my heartache.
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Don – Here's an idea. Get the cheaper tickets, the $15 jobs.
2 x 15 = 30.
If you live around the city take public transportation, but if you have to take the car, park far away and walk it. Parking = 0
A game lasts three hours. With the commute, call it 4 1/2. Maybe you could have a big meal before the game? Or if you have to eat, bring a napsack with some chips, or better yet, energy bars. I think they let you in with bottled water. Thats $5 at the Wawa.
So right now we are at $35.
Lets leave $15 for miscellaneous stuff that I can't think of right now. Now that's $50. Some would consider that a great value. I think that the problem here may lie in the fact that, not only do you wanna see a baseball game, but you also wanna do it in the lap of luxury. My advice: Downsize it a bit. I sense that there is an unwillingness on your part to move from one of the sections that "you like" to one that is more cost efficient. Have a few beers before the game.
I think you will find that that if you follow my suggestions and do the numbers, that you will able to got to almost 3 games for your cost of going to 1. Think about it and don't be so selfish
The Dipsy
Yeah, damn….210 and 315??? Quit being SUCH a ticket snob.
trains back to my house at night only run every hour.. so if I miss the one at 10:20 .. im standing around in Suburban Station until 11:20… not home until midnight
makes it worth the parking..
Im just giving the realistics of it … of course there are times when I go down and don't buy concessions, dont bring the wifey, etc..
But those $15 seats suck.. and its a better view to stay at home and watch on TV
But that's part of it… who wants to go to a game, sit in the cheapest possible seats, not have a beer or a hot dog if you want one.. etc..
People in NY can afford to do that an Yankee stadium.. but "real fans" are being priced out.
I usually get to 10-15 games a year.. without a ticket plan
So conservatively, I would say I spend $1,000 on the Phillies every year …. not counting years I've traveled to Boston, Chicago, etc. to go see them on the road
For $1,000 I could also go on an All-Inclusive vacation somewhere… or get in a shore house, etc .. . . If the Phillies became more expensive than they currently are.. Im pretty sure I would have a better tan from doing those other things instead of trying to see the Phillies in person a bunch of times every year
Yeah…I like sitting down on the first level sometimes…early in the year you can get tickets in 115 or 116….for face value… from the Phillies ticket office.
That's nice to do once in awhile…spend $60 on a really good seat..
And the $30 and $40 seats are fine too…
But those really cheap seats suck….and it's not all that fun being there if you can't see sh!t.
The equivalent seat to Sect. 116…..at Yankee Stadium….is $375.
Yea im not even talking about anything crazy… 1st base side, 2nd deck.. "GOOD SEATS" in my opinion .. . and they're expensive
Phillies were able to rebuild this fan base because unlike the Eagles/Flyers, etc … baseball games are "affordable"
its also nice that they play 81 home games.. but payroll in baseball is a lot higher than the other sports too
and the Section 315 seat that I like…
in Yankee Stadium costs you $80 in advance, $85 on game day
their sections 310 (our equivalent to 210) is $48 advance, $50 game day
I know he will not read this but I needed to put it out there. Jeff says for what they charge for a game, they could have keep Lee and pay players more, but they don't want to spend the money,
I can tell you from experience, Phillies tickets are a lot less expensive then ohter places, epecially the big payroll teams, A ticket to Fenway where you can actually see the game and sit down, cheapest ticket 40-50 dollars, Mets and Yankees, at least 35-40 dollars. I have Sunday package seats in sect 418 and they are pretty good, $23 per game. I also travel and go to baseball games, Washington DC was just slightly less expensive then the phillies, and they are the Nationals.
I like that I can live in Vermont and afford to take time off work and drive down to Philly and see 10-15 games a year. I live closer to Boston and NY but can not afford the day trips to either one of those stadiums because of the tickets prices
Chuck I have to disagree, sect. 418 3rd row I can see the whole game, better then some second level seats at fenway.
Yeah…those 400 seats between the bases are pretty good..
Spoiler: Ranting. Lee. Length. Potential negativity. And, not to pick out anyone in particular, love ya all, just using some of your quotes as examples of differing opinion, and your posts are memorable (not a bad thing, that's the whole point of this site).
It's funny how practically everyone who posts, no matter what their opinion, qualifies their statements with "of course we'd rather have Lee, too." Chuck., you say "I think all of us would loved to have had Lee and Halladay for a year.. The excitement of that would have been great for any fan."," and in a previous thread, Don M. says "like everyone, (italics mine) I would have LOVED (capitalization yours) to see how that starting rotation would have looked.." But hey, guys, that starting rotation wasn't just some hypothetical fantasy baseball "Halladay Lincecum Greinke" rotation, it was in our franchise hands, we know that now. It could have been. And according even to many impartial analysts outside the Phillies system, as previously discussed, should have been.
Now, in this thread, again we're mixing apples and oranges. If the trade wasn't a salary issue, most would agree an ace like Lee was a bargain at 9M for a year, especially *this* year. If the Lee trade was even partially a salary issue, I'm pretty sure that money-wise the 1 mil Phils saved having 3rd-4th starter Blanton over Lee this year won't yield $$ for a fix for a bullpen that is pretty much in shambles. We still have essentially only one pitcher (Halladay vs. Lee) that can go full or close-to-full games which doesn't much help matters there, or necessarily even equal more wins at all. And if Lee was a farm-replenishment deal (which usually seems to be concensus on this forum), it still seems less than ideal given the prospects we got back.
See, I'm still a firm believer in the old adage a proven bird in the pre- and post-season is worth two (or three) in the bush league. No one's going to convince me that 1) our vastly improving the chance to win the division for the 4th straight year, possibly go to the World Series for three straight years, and maybe even win the World Series for the second time in 3 years could be defined as the Phils "blowing their load," (Don M.'s words in a diff. thread, definitely not mine) unless I'm somehow missing the point of the game of baseball, 2) losing this chance was worth the magic (sarcasm implied) "bullets" of Gillies, Ramirez, and Aumond right now, this year, on the farm, or 3) that we still won't be watching Utley, Halladay, – now Victorino (which BTW I sincerely hope doesn't equal losing Werth) – and a "bunch of scrubs" (from same post from Don M.) even with those magic bullets, after 2011. I know, I know, I need to trust our scouts…
I get backed up on reading these threads at times, so to Don M., I had been meaning to ask you earlier, by your term "watching winning baseball for the next 5 years", did you mean getting to the post-season? Or having a winning record? Or not being the late-90's Phils? By which definition do you think these three prospects equals "winning baseball" vs. "losing baseball" going forward? But later you said "I would rather have the middle of the road team, with the chance to make the playoffs and the World Series that I could go to see 10-15 times a year.. instead of a WS winner that I couldn't afford to ever watch in person." If you'd rather have a "middle of the road" team (which in my mind by definition implies a very small chance to make the playoffs and the WS) vs. a WS title, we're in basic philosophical disagreement. Then above Chuck says "there are some on here that would gladly accept 5 or even 10 years of lousy sub .500 baseball for another WS title, " implying that anything above a losing record for the next 5-10 years is worth a title. You say "fortunately…with what Ruben has done…we won't have those 5 or 10 years..of lousy sub .500 baseball" AND we have a legitimate shot at that title," Again, I'm not convinced that Aumont, Gilles, or Ramirez equals not having those 5-10 years, or even that any of them ever makes a decent major league showing let alone makes or breaks a shot at the title. As farm-system prospects, I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think they're the next Rollins, Utley, Howard.. But again, I know, I know, I need to trust our scouts…
Now in this thread it seems like the entire issue is coming down to ticket prices. Oh please. First of all, I fail to see how the Lee "for prospects not salary" trade affects ticket prices this year. What about the increased ticket sales from sold-out games both when Halladay and when Lee start, or the increase in merchandising from yet another WS winning season. Second, I'd rather sit home a few extra times and watch us win it all again and join in a parade for close to free than sit in the stands with the oh-so-satisfying knowledge that we've already restocked the farm in exchange for maybe the one extra player who could have been most instrumental in taking us all the way in the next 5-10 years, and watch us blow the last chance of making it to October in person. And yes, I'm a true fan. My family just never had the money to go to many games, and some of my favorite Phillies games were heard over the transistor radio with Ashburn and the great HK at the mike. Memories of what your team accomplished at those times it was at its best (see "blowing their load") do (and usually have to) carry you through lots of years of relative mediocrity and rebuilding. I'd say the opportunity to look back at a real dynasty period and possibly a 3rd ring in the process would have made a pretty darn good memory.
But don't worry, folks, looks like we can look forward to watching us try to be "contenders" again – unfortunately apparently sooner rather than later – all you want in the next 5-10 years and get to tell your kids/grandkids all about the year that actually could have been. If losing a starting rotation like we did to add these particular prospects means the difference between "watching winning baseball in the next 5-10 years" and was truly accomplished by this trade – I just don't see it. But I must have missed Crystal Ball Promotion Day at CBP, 'cause I couldn't afford the tickets.
I am as big a Phils fan as anybody and I live in NYC. I went to all three inter-league games at "the Stadium" and 3 World Series games (gms 1 and 2 in the Bronx). I can tell you without a doubt, there were very, very few true Yankees fans that were in attendance. I was embarrassed for them. So much so that I could have seen us taking game 2 after schooling them in game 1 and taking them out in 5. They had no heart absolutely whatsoever and barely got involved in the most pivotal moments.
FYI: RAJ is doing a phenomenal job and our Front Office and scouting dept knows more about the Blue Jays and Mariners farm systems than they do bc Gillick has a sustained trust and popularity with those two franchises. They both have new GM's that are wet behind the ears looking to make moves for appearances.
Another thing nobody talks about: Cliff Lee just pitched 50 more innings this season than any other year in his career. He is prone to "off years" that make Cole Hamels 2009 like downright stellar. Who by the way pitched over 50 innings more than any other year in his career in the 2008 run. See the scary pattern
Also, if we are in the same position in 2010 as in the last 3 yrs come August, those prospects in the Lee deal will come in handy in getting us another starter or some sorely needed bullpen help (which will be a weakness this year). Amaro is really thinking 2 or 3 moves ahead at all times.
What the hell? Le Bron in Miami? This sucks.
This nigga bout to be exposed to a different breed of hoes.. po' Savannah.. (and CB's ole' lady from that alternative post). I bet the groupies are making plans to relocate to Miami as we speak!
interesting Lebro is a very talented athlete.


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Deb Taber
B.A., The Evergreen State College, 1996
Lurking Behind Words -- Deb Taber
Biographical Note
Deb Taber is a writer, editor, and Pacific Northwesterner, complete with the standard-issue coffee addiction and an irrational affection for giant slugs. Her dark fantasy stories have appeared in such venues as Fantasy Magazine and River: An Anthology, and her science fiction short stories have appeared in various anthologies, including Art From Art and Dark Futures. Necessary Ill is her first novel.
Publication Type
Latest Publication Title
Necessary Ill, Aqueduct Press, 2013.
Other PublicationsShort Stories:
"Scatalogical" in River: An Anthology (ed. Alma Alexander)
"Stem, Stone, and Bone" in Fantasy Magazine
"The Summoning of Spirits Too Far from Home" in Fantasy Magazine
"Alien Spaces" in Dark Futures (ed. Jason Sizemore)
Publication Information
Editorial review from Library Journal:
The world of men and women, gendered humans, is out of control. Overpopulation and wasted resources portend an environmental collapse. Jin and other nongendered humans, or neuters, take it upon themselves to spread viruses intended to cull the human race. When Sandy, a young woman who has lived with hardship and brutality, encounters Jin and its fellow neuters and joins them in their secret enclave deep in the Carlsbad Caverns, the scene is set for a new way of life for humankind, gendered and nongendered alike. VERDICT: Taber's debut novel presents an all-too-credible dystopic future world and, in Jin, a complex character whose mind approaches the world and its priorities in a very different way. The characterization of truly genderless individuals—not androgynes or hermaphrodites—and the portrayal of an approach to the world that is both ruthless and compassionate make this an excellent candidate for book discussion groups and provide strong evidence for the availability of significant genre literature. Highly recommended.
How did Evergreen help you in your career?
Courses at Evergreen introduced me to authors, particularly female authors in speculative fiction, who opened up a new side of the genre for me: serious, thought-provoking works that use the tools of science fiction to examine everyday life. In particular, Octavia Butler, Connie Willis, and Karen Joy Fowler were writers I became familiar with through Evergreen coursework, and Butler's work especially had a profound effect on my direction as a writer.


text:
Great Live Moments - Hilton Ruiz
April 30, 2008. Posted by Joshua Jackson.Add new comment | Filed under: benefit, benny golson, bourbon street, clifford, dizzy gillespie, hilton ruiz, hometown, hurricane katrina victims, Jazz Alive, jazz ballads, Listening Post, Live Music, lyrics, new orleans, performance studio, wbgo
So how can we say something so real has really gone away?
I hear him now, I always will
Believe me I remember Hilton still.
Those are actually the lyrics to "I Remember Clifford," one of the enduring jazz ballads by Benny Golson. With one modification. The name.
It should not go unnoticed that nearly two years ago, Hilton Ruiz lay unconscious on Bourbon Street in my hometown. What particularly stings me is that he was in New Orleans working on a benefit CD for and video about Hurricane Katrina victims.
It reminds me of a quote attributed to Dizzy Gillespie:
"Men have died for this music. You can't get more serious than that."
In 1986, Hilton Ruiz played the Steinway B in our performance studio.
Listen to "I Remember Clifford" from the WBGO Archives.


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Brash Entertainment: From $400 Million To Out Of Business In Less Than Two Years
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|2013-02-01, 14:33
|Link #861
Join Date: May 2009
But it changed the order of things (especially Mahiro's commentary on the ghosts, it supposedly was a build up for a later event), so I am curious how future events will be excuted now.
|2013-02-02, 08:45
|Link #862
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Age: 28
Yeah, order of things is changed a bit. Some things of this episode originally belonged in the later part of next weeks.
Next episode should be a treat for both Hakaze and Aika fans, lots of dere-dere and flashbacks. The pink background for Hakaze was a nice touch. Though it reminded me of Samon hitting the ground with his saya over and over again, made me cringe every time.
|2013-02-04, 12:10
|Link #863
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Virginia, USA
Age: 54
Slightly OT: If you have access to the US PBS network, you might be interested in 2 shows that are scheduled for this coming Friday night, two episodes of the series Shakespeare Uncovered. Each Shakespeare Uncovered episode looks in depth at a specific play. Friday's first episode looks into Hamlet hosted by actor David Tennant. The second episode looks into The Tempest hosted by director Trevor Nunn. The shows air at 9pm & 10pm ET, but you should verify the times with your local listings if you're interested.
|2013-02-05, 07:02
|Link #864
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
January 21st - 27th
Anime sales: 18, *1,911 Zetsuen no Tempest
Manga sales: 4 *108,673 Zetsuen no Tempest, Vol.8
Don't know how other volumes of the manga have sold before but I guess the anime has helped a bit for volume 8?
|2013-02-05, 09:20
|Link #866
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Previous volumes would only chart their 2nd week with around 60k total volumes. I'm not sure if that's due to release date or what (seems a tad odd). Still, it's at least boost of 30k initial sales volume over Vol 7 and 45k over Vol 6 (which I believe is actually the previous volume before the anime started). Add in some some back catalog sales (maybe an extra 5k per volume, so maybe another 40k total sales all together) and merchandize, then you probably don't have a loss for the anime. Which is a good thing. Also helps if it increase total circulation numbers for the manga magazine (something we tend to forget about, as well).
Huge hit, no. Probably profitable? Yes. Further cement BONES as doing solid anime that doesn't sell well? Yup!
|2013-02-05, 12:03
|Link #867
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
^Thanks for your input, I wasn't really expecting it to be a hit. I feared it was going to be a complete disaster although we'll have to see how the next volumes will sell I guess.
By the way in the light novels section I saw this:
4 *19,468 Zetsuen no Tempest 8.5 Collaboration Guide Book
|2013-02-05, 15:44
|Link #868
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
|2013-02-05, 22:04
|Link #869
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
ZnT has at least increased the Manga sales pretty nicely, it's selling enough discs and the side stuff seems to be doing well. So, it'll be net profitable. They'd have loved it to sell Jojo numbers, but it's really not that type of series, even if it is really good.
|2013-02-05, 22:30
|Link #870
Seishu's Ace
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kagurazaka, Tokyo
BONES stubbornness in refusing to compromise in their choice of subject material really impresses me. I wish they were having more commercial success, but they're continuing to challenge the audience and I applaud them for it.
|2013-02-07, 23:12
|Link #877
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
excellent episode with a nice buildup to that reveal bomb at the end!!
ahh now can't wait for ep18 to find out what they would do especially Mahiro, i think Hakaze would be happy though, weird though it may be being happy for someone being dead or maybe just relieved. Until she figures The Tree of Genesis can actually act retroactively, meaning it's fully possible ToG did Kill Aika a year ago to bring Yoshino to her today....
Nice Going Hanemura, just the needed outside view, since they were all to close to Yoshino and the situation to figure that out. It's high time for that info to come out anyway.
Liking Hakaze more & more every Episode But Aika is so cute too in that flashback. I changed my mind, she's not really that scary or at least Yoshino IS fully at her level & with Hakaze too for that matter..... so is he the Heart of the ToE? :P who knows....maybe Aika is MoE and then she transferred her heart to yoshino & the power to Hanemura ....nyahaha spec spec..
(glad have no previews Knowledge so I can savior every reveal every week , anime-only here, no spoilers pleeeaase! )
|2013-02-08, 03:09
|Link #879
Witcher, with tenure
Join Date: Sep 2004
The pacing of this episode was exceptional. I didn't expect Hakaze's confession, nor the reveal of the Yoshino's hidden relationship, either I feared would drag on all season. The second season already has surpassed my expectations for this series. Very poetic direction.
|2013-02-08, 16:58
|Link #880
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Southeastern US
How fitting in a story so often quoting Shakespeare that the character playing the fool is the one to point out the obvious. For me it is a stunning contrast that the same players who had devised plans and schemes impacting the entire world are now so confounded by the affairs of the human heart.
Lord, what fools these mortals be.
|bones, gangan, magic, mystery, shounen, tragedy, zetsuen
|Thread Tools


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National Survey of Student Engagement (NSSE), they are the reality of many North Park students' college experience.
Each year the NSSE asks students at hundreds of schools to reflect on the time they devote to various learning activities, from academic to extracurricular. It measures not only the extent to which they excel in their classes, but also the extent to which they feel involved on their campuses—relating to faculty, interacting with peers of different backgrounds, and entering into community.
Students are surveyed at random—as incoming freshmen and as outgoing seniors—to measure the change in their perception of their school over time. This was the first year North Park participated, with 364 students taking the survey.
"The idea is that students who are engaged learn better," explains University Provost Dr. Joseph Jones.
The NSSE compares North Park to a selected benchmark of 10 colleges and universities in the Midwest, as well as about 70 similar liberal arts institutions across the nation known as the Carnegie Class. North Park was on par with both groups in the Level of Academic Challenge (LAC), Active and Collaborative Learning (ACL), and Student–Faculty Interaction (SFI) categories, yet significantly outscored both groups when it came to Enriching Educational Experiences (EEE).
Of the North Park freshman surveyed, 63% said they "frequently have serious conversations with students who are different from them in terms of religious, political, or personal beliefs." Moreover, 58% said they "frequently have serious conversations with those of a different race;" and 57% frequently "engage in spiritually enhancing activities such as worship, meditation, or prayer." By the time they are seniors, 74% of North Park students have participated in community service or volunteer work.
"Our results confirmed that in those areas that make up our identity, our students really do affirm that 'enriching educational experiences' come from North Park's diversity, our spiritual focus, and our urban milieu," Jones explains.
Although it doesn't boast the same mainstream popularity as the annual U.S. News and World Report college rankings, the NSSE is arguably much more telling in terms of how colleges and universities are succeeding at educating their students. Ultimately, it can provide prospective students with a more holistic picture of how they might learn and develop at a given college.
According to the NSSE website, the survey represents empirically confirmed "good practices" in undergraduate education. The NSSE was launched with support from The Pew Charitable Trusts and is currently self-supported through institutional participation fees. Project research is also supported by grants from Lumina Foundation for Education and the Center of Inquiry in the Liberal Arts at Wabash College.
The survey is administered by the Indiana University Center for Postsecondary Research in cooperation with the Indiana University Center for Survey Research.
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CloudHost – Hosting & Internet Business HTML Theme
A hosting HTML theme for anyone that starts in the hosting business or even for veterans that are looking to revamp their current website. No day like today to start working on your new website.
IMPORTANT: Support is offered exclusively in our Help Desk not here in the comments section. You'll need an account on our website in order to be able to submit a ticket. Please include the ThemeForest Item Purchase Code – Learn how to find it
Key features:
- Huge amount of page templates can be made using the shortcodes HTML pages.
- Working contact form
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- Premium design
- Google Web Fonts custom fonts
- Creative homepage slider used to showcase your products
The package contains:
- 26 HTML 5 valid files
- 10 Photoshop files used to create the HTML theme


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Petite Studded Diamond Bustier
Style: 570093459
Out of Stock
Silvery studs have a starry shimmer within silver embroidered diamonds on a bustier with velvet trim in the front, and a satin back.
- Removable, adjustable straps.
- Princess-seamed, bustier construction, with boning and inner silicone/elastic band to prevent shifting. Full length back zip with hook/eye closures. Notched sides.
- Lined in reverse charmeuse (silky side to skin).
- Shell: 56% Cotton, 44% Rayon. Lining: 100% Polyester. Hand wash. Do not dry clean. Imported.
- Regular length: 22" from top edge to hem.
- Petite length: 21" from top edge to hem.
Read more… Read less…


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The exact moment I knew I was a gamer parent -- that is, a gamer who happens to have kids, and not just the parent of kids who play games -- was when I heard my nine year-old son Drew proclaim, "They won't let you kill kids in this game? That's a bunch of bullcrap," and immediately realized I was going to have to have a conversation with him about it.
He was playing Fable II. One of my games.
"Father, let us murder virtual children... together."
Knowing what to do in these situations is harder than it sounds. On one hand, I know there are millions of parents like me now. On the other, it's kind of uncharted territory. In some ways the world still thinks of gaming as a newfangled gadget for the kids (so there is all sorts of advice out there for parents about how to find out if the game your teenager bought merely lets him kill hookers or actually dismember them completely). But it's a different deal for parents whose own primary form of entertainment is gaming -- Moms who raid with their kids in World of Warcraft, dads who consistently teabag their own children in the Halo games.
I'm one of those. I'm more of a gamer than any of my kids, in fact. As far as they know, this is what grownups do. And a lot of the games I play are in no way appropriate for them. But here's the thing...
4It's Not Easy Keeping Adult Games Away from the Kids
Let's look at my experience with Fable II. It's a game for adults and like I said it was in fact my game, not my son's. But I also knew nothing about it; I got it as a Christmas gift last year and hadn't spent much time on it because... well, World of Warcraft still exists, and I am a weak man who is afraid of change. A friend found it for $12 in a bargain bin and he assumes I will like any random thing that has a cartoonish guy with a sword and D&D garb on the cover.
I left it laying out in a household with three children because, well, it was a pink game with the word "Fable" on the cover and a guy dressed like Link. It didn't seem like a game that would contain a lot of murder and bonin'.
Now, some of you reading this are already snickering, or perhaps dialing a hotline for child protective services, because you've played Fable II and know what's coming. I really should have looked at the back.
I didn't, and one of my sons found it and soon was asking me about how he could murder children, because it apparently seemed like that kind of game. I calmly explained to him that Hollywood and games, as a general rule of thumb, don't really show violence towards kids and he would have to be satisfied with mass-murdering all of the adults in the game world instead.
There was no cause for alarm at this point, all I knew was that this was one of the 95% of video games that involve murder -- even Mario kills dudes. We crossed that line a long time ago.
Then, an hour later: "Dad? What's a 'used condom'?"
My mind went frantic, and it took every ounce of willpower to not answer, "a tragedy averted." Instead, I waited five seconds and said, "...what?"
"A used condom. I just dug one up in the game. What is it?"
I won't document the talk we had because we didn't have one. Instead, I had him turn off the Xbox and take a shower to wash away the stink of his sin.
But I knew it wasn't going to be that easy. It'd be naive to assume that this would be the last time this situation would come up. Partly because...
3Game Ratings Don't Make the Decision For You
Some of you have already skipped down to the comments to point out what a terrible father I am for ignoring the rating on the game. That's what they're there for, after all.
I make no excuses. In a perfect world, I'd have all of my games neatly categorized by ESRB rating and would watch like a hawk every second to make sure that each game was only being played by a child who was age appropriate, and that neither of their younger siblings were watching them play on our household's one television. And I do take steps -- I know to keep GTA IV and Dildo Samurai locked away in a drawer.
I think that's what it's called
But let me ask you: how old were you when you saw your first R-rated movie? I bet most of you weren't out of elementary school. Some of you saw porn before you read your first novel. Others of you may have had parents who let you see graphic violence when you were nine, but freaked out when they found you with porn at 15.
In the real world, there is no perfect, black and white rule on when a human brain is ready to see a beheading, or a pair of boobs, or a man's balls, or a man's balls painted to look like a pair of boobs. And it wouldn't matter if there was, because you still saw that stuff whether your parents allowed you or not. It was all around you. The bigger issue was whether they were there to talk to you about it.
Likewise, I'm a gamer and I live in a gamer's house -- one with three children from ages five to eleven. Games wind up all over, I have game boxes on my desk, in my TV cabinet, on my dresser, laying on the floor. Hell, even if I take the XBox away from them and restrict them to fun flash-based browser games, I can turn my back for 30 seconds and they can wind up playing this:
My eleven year-old has a World of Warcraft account. Even if I've decided the game content is appropriate for his maturity level, what's to stop some anonymous forty year old from calling him an incompetent cockhole when he screws up?
Nothing. That's why I, as a Gamer Parent, have some work to do.
Especially since ...


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The Astonishing Mr. Pitts was with the library and astonished everyone with some amazing magic tricks. He brought along some of his friends to help him and kept everyone entertained for the afternoon. The following week the kids planted test tube terrariums and took them home to watch their seeds grow.
On June 18, the Austin Reptile Show was here with a bunch of creepy, crawly critters that the children were able to touch. They learned a lot about some of the snakes in the area and how they can be beneficial, even though they look a little scary. Miss Karnes County and two of the beautiful princesses came by and dazzled all with a great story about Independence Day. Afterward, they helped the kids to decorate their own Fourth of July photo frame. The library wrapped up the programming with an Ice Cream Social and let the kids make their own ice cream. It was a little hectic and a little messy but the ice cream was good and cold on a hot afternoon.
Every Thursday morning at 10 a.m. was story time with the library director who read several interesting and fun books to the kids.
On July 11, certificates and door prizes were awarded to those in attendance. This year we had 78 children that signed up for the reading program and 63 of them received their certificates. That's even better than last year's numbers and the library is very grateful to all of the parents and caregivers that brought their kids to the library. Cameron Laskowski was the winner of the Samsung Tablet in a drawing for the participants who read 25 or more books.
The Falls City Public Library would like to thank the City of Falls City, Palace Cafe, Pollok's Store and Deli, and the Busy Beaver for their donations and support of the library and its programs. Since this has been such a great year for summer reading, the library wants to make it even better next year.


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Hello! Decided to join here....nice to meet you all!
Welcome to the Base :D
:hey: Welcome to NB!
~Global Rules~
~How To's~
~Frequently asked questions~
~How to RolePlay~
welcome to hell , enjoy your stay & stay away of troll
Welcome to the base, please read the rules and if you have any questions feel free to ask me!
Thanks for the welcome!
Welcome to NB :D
-NB Rules, Info and FAQ- -Pm me for Help-
For you to be guided,
|NB Rules|NB How To's|NB Frequently Asked Questions|How to Rp|How to join a village|
Have fun.D
Welcome to Narutobase
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Honours BA Biology
The Honours BA Biology program consists of 20.0 credits, of which not more than 6.0 may be taken at the 100 level; the program includes at least 10.0 but no more than 11 senior Biology credits. Students may use their senior Biology courses to fulfill the requirements for one of three streams (refer to Note 5). Students must complete a number of compulsory courses equivalent to a minor in the History & Philosophy of Science (3.0 credits) (refer to Note 7). They may use their remaining elective credits to build a second minor in another discipline.
Required courses:
Additional Information
Year 1
Year 2
Year 3
Year 4
Academic & Related Dates 2011/2012
Other Calendars


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Sportline 220 Basic Stopwatch
Product Information:
The Sportline ® 220 Stopwatch's compact, durable, shock and water resistant design allows it to withstand extensive wear and tear. The stopwatch is laser tuned for 1/100th second accuracy and times all sports activities. It also features a two place, fast finish memory.
- Shock and water resistant
- Laser tuned for 1/100th second accuracy
- Durable and compact
- Times all sports activities
- Sportline
Country of Origin: ChinaWeb ID: 4004753
Customer Reviews:
Rated 3.4 out of 5�by 36 reviewers.
Rated 4 out of 5�by BigC85 stop watch I was looking for a stopwatch and found one at Dick's. The stop was very easy to operate and I have enjoyed using it for my activities. October 4, 2016
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Rated 5 out of 5�by jimmy10 the stop watch that i perchased has been great and keeps records and time well. i use this as I walk to keep time of when I take breaks and then when im actually walking. it does a great job. May 11, 2016
Rated 1 out of 5�by decobabs Junk! Don't waste your money!! Really tried to like this watch... But after going over the directions for over two hours.... still unable to get it to work at all for splits. Even setting the time was impossible. Finally gave up and went to Amazon and bought the TYR stop watch. Got it in two days, and took a total of ten minutes to set the time, day and month...as well as figuring out how to get splits. DO NOT BUY! February 9, 2016
Rated 1 out of 5�by Bert11111 Not worth the money The buttons on the darn thing don't work. You press to start the stopwatch, and nothing happens. You press again and hear a beep and nothing happens. You press again and finally get it started. Then when you press to stop the timer - guess what? - Nothing happens. December 11, 2015
Rated 3 out of 5�by jnespo Average Stopwatch...Nothing Special Just a basic stopwatch. Gets the job done. It is a little pressure sensitive. October 1, 2015
Rated 4 out of 5�by clarkca23 Sportline 220 Basic Stopwatch For the price it is a good product, the only down fall is the clasp doesn't really work keep the strings together. August 26, 2015
Rated 5 out of 5�by Swampie Good value This stopwatch is priced right, works well. Use it everyday during PT May 10, 2015
Rated 2 out of 5�by tinlizzy Basic Stopwatch It does what I need. It would be nice to have a lap storage capability April 1, 2015


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"Since I was 21 years old until today, I've been in some kind of public service," the former Beeville Police Department officer said.
Scotten was saying goodbye to the council after serving eight years as the representative for Ward 1. He was presented with a plaque thanking him for his service as a council member and as mayor pro tem.
He was replaced earlier at the meeting by attorney George P. "Trace" Morrill, III.
Morrill had defeated his opponent, accountant Randy Forbes, in the May 11 council election.
In other action Tuesday, the council voted to:
— Approve the payment of $8,353.10 to Lone Star Products for equipment the company provided for new Beeville Police Department patrol cars.
— Authorize the city to pay the Bee County Chamber of Commerce $40,000 for advertising and expenses for the organization's Summerfest on Aug. 9-10.
This year, the event will be held in conjunction with the Sixth Annual Bee Auto Specialty Car and Truck Show sponsored by Sonic Drive-In of Beeville.
— Approved hiring William Shaffer as the new wastewater treatment plant superintendent. Shaffer has been working for the City of Portland.


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Brown hair - brown eyes
black hair, brown eyez
blonde hair blue eyes
Brown eyes. Dark purple hair (Dyed)
pink hair
yellow eyes
Dark brown hair and dark brown eyes...very exciting, I know!
Brown Eyes and Black hair
Brown and brown.
black hair..with nut brown eyes..
Brown hair. Brown-green eyes.
I have blonde hair (with some brown and black hairs, weirdly enough) and green/blue/grey eyes (they change from day to day).
Black hair. Black Eyes. typical asian
Originally Posted by Wang
I never realized you were a girl until right now
A lot of members don't seem to realize that :ghehe:
Went to the hairdresser today, so now my hair is a dark copper
Black & Green
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The day we were in Cooperstown (Sunday) I met three lovely ladies who made the trip from Augusta Maine to watch the PawSox play. They are Portland Sea Dogs season ticket holders and were excited about Aaron Bates and his start with Pawtucket. They also inquired about Bubba Bell and when he might join the PawSox. Ladies, he is here. The 26 year old Texan joined the club on Monday, travelling from Akron to Portland to Pawtucket, getting here in time for the rainout. "It was a long day for me, it started about 4:30 in the morning. We flew back from Akron and I got a call from Arnie (Portland manager Arnie Beyeler), he told me I had to get to Pawtucket and here I am. I was definitely tired, but I had enough excitement to carry me through the day." Bell, an outfielder has put up good numbers at Double A. In his fifth year in the organization, the former 39th round pick (1187th overall) of the 2005 draft has had to work very hard to catch up with the likes of "classmates" Clay Buchholz and Michael Bowden. "It's been tough coming from where I did, not having a lot of expectations from me. I've had to work that much harder and I appreciate everything that has happened to me. It has made me the player I am today". Bell has had an outstanding minor league career, posting a career .309 batting average. He said that his MVP season in 2007 in the California League has given him the confidence to forge ahead. "It proved to me that I was meant to be here and put up these kind of numbers (.370 22, 83), It meant a lot because it said to me- this is what you should be doing. I think it proved something to the organization and something to me." Any baseball person I've asked describes Bell as an "all-out player", meaning he never leaves anything in the clubhouse. He chose a pretty good role model. "My favorite player growing up was Griffey. He's had some injuries going into walls, etc. I have a lot of competitive drive so if I see a ball somewhere in the outfield, I am going to do everything I can to bring it down." Bell knows why he becomes a fan favorite, no matter where he plays. "I think people appreciate it a whole lot more, it makes the game more exciting. Thats my "M.O.", that's how I feel I'll play my whole career. Bubba Bell also passed the "Steve Hyder Poise Test". As we chatted in the PawSox dugout, Bell hardly cracked a smile, despite the best efforts of Charlie Zink to make him laugh during our interview. A lot of his "new" teammates really aren't that new. "I've got a lot of good friends on this team. Buch (Clay Buchholz), Michael Bowden and Charlie Zink. I spent a lot of time with this group of guys at Spring Training. I'm real comfortable with these players. It made it even more exciting when I knew I was coming up and playing with them." Aaron Bates has a six game "head start" at Pawtucket over Bell, and Bubba is encouraged by Bates' fast start. "Absolutely. He's been swinging the bat so well all year, it's been fun to watch Aaron do it. I have no doubts that I can do the same thing up here. Bubba, of course is a nickname. It's been with Bell since even before he was born. His dad gave it to him. "My real name is Billy Wayne Bell, Jr. I've had the nickname "Bubba" as long as I can remember. It's something that I haven't been able to shake so far." Bell isn't sure the nickname is always a good thing. "Some people hear the name and try to define me by it. It's not the case, but every where I go people seem to think it's a good baseball name, and I'll keep it as long as I'm playing ball." Add the name Bubba Bell to the long list of great kids and outstanding players to come through the doors of McCoy Stadium.
4 Comments
I am not a big fan of the Red Sox but when I played on my Little League team we were the Pawtucket Red Sox.
PS. I am a Phillies Fan. World Series CHAMPS
Keep up the excellent blog Mr. Hyder. I'm a father of 3 boys and when were not actually at McCoy we love listening to your broadcast.
Brian Hart
Warwick, RI
Hey Hyde!
Just wanted to say I really enjoy reading yours and Hoard's blogs. I really enjoy when you write about things that otherwise I would not have known like what goes on in the clubhouse,bus ect.
Keep it going!!


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"Your radio show changed my life. As a result of listening, I converted to Catholicism at 53 years old. I was a very active Protestant my whole life before becoming a Catholic. Keep up the terrific work!"
Subscribe to Catholic Answers Magazine
"First, thou shalt love God, who created thee; secondly, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself; whatever thou wishest that it should not be done to thee, do not to others."


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Build Your Own - Daily System Components - White
- Overview
Clever and versatile, our modular Daily System is the ultimate home-office assistant. To create a system that's ideal for your space, click here to view our Daily System Tool.
- Frame is painted white.
- Frame is crafted of MDF.
- Stainless steel hardware.
- Whiteboard is magnetic and includes a marker, an eraser and two magnets.
- Whiteboard Calendar is magnetic and includes a marker, an eraser and two magnets.
- Chalkboard is magnetic and includes chalk, an eraser and six magnets.
- Pinboard includes twenty pushpins.
- MDF is an engineered wood that lends exceptional strength and ensures the system's structural integrity over time.
- 12" rod includes two screws and two anchors.
- 24" rod includes three screws and three anchors.
- Requires the 12" or 24" Top Display Rod (sold separately).
- Dimensions & Care
- 12" Top Display Rod
- 24" Top Display Rod
- Corkboard: 12" wide x 19" high
- Letter Bin: 12" wide x 19" high
- Office Organizer: 12" wide x 19" high
- Mirror: 12" wide x 21" high
- Row of Hooks: 12" wide x 3.25" deep x 5" high
- Multi Use Entryway: 12" wide x 3.25" deep x 31" high
- Paper Towel Holder: 14" wide x 4" deep x 1" high
- Flatware Caddy: 11.25" wide x 3.5" deep x 5.25" high
- Recipe/Tablet Holder: 8" wide x 2.5" deep x 10.25" high
- 12" Ledge: 11.75" wide x 5.5" deep x 2" high
- 12" Ledge Maximum Weight Capacity: 10 pounds
- Whiteboard: 24" wide x 19" high
- Whiteboard Calendar: 24" wide x 19" high
- Chalkboard: 24" wide x 19" high
- Pinboard: 24" wide x 19" high
- Kitchen Towel Holder: 24" wide x 7.75" deep x 3.25" high
- 24" Ledge: 24" wide x 5.5" deep x 2" high
- 24" Ledge Maximum Weight Capacity: 15 pounds
- Wipe with a soft dry cloth.
- Shipping & Return Info
This is a general shipping item.
Shipping Information
Hassle Free Returns
To make this gift-giving season a little merrier, we are extending our Returns & Exchange Policy. For all items purchased between Oct. 21 and Dec. 24, 2016, you'll have until January 31, 2017 to return the item for a refund of the merchandise value. Just make sure to bring your proof of purchase or gift receipt. Quick Ship upholstery items are excluded from the Extended Holiday Return Policy. You have 7 days to return your Quick Ship upholstery item for a full refund or exchange.
The following items are non-eligible for returns or exchanges:
- Monogrammed items
- Mattresses
- Gift cards
- Made to Order items, including custom rugs and furniture
- Final Sale items (identified by a price ending in $.X7 or $.X9)
- Items damaged through normal wear and tear.
Delivery fees are non-refundable and prior purchases are not eligible for price adjustments.
For more information, view our full Returns & Exchange Policy.
- Our Quality Commitment
Our Commitment
We have a firm commitment to quality. We take great pride in our timeless designs, premium materials and expert craftsmanship.
The Hand of the Artist
Nearly all of our products are imagined and designed in our San Francisco studios. Our artists hand-create prototypes for everything from seasonal dinnerware to patchwork quilts to lighting.
Free Interior Design Services
Need design help? We offer free, no-strings-attached Interior Design Services. Get advice and inspiration from our specialists in-store, over the phone or by email. Designers will even make in-home visits, where they can take measurements, discuss color options, and give tips on any room.


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Kave IndustriesNo Reviews Available | post a review
Rancho Cucamonga, CA US
(909) 944-8700
Store Website
Send Them an Email
About Kave Industries
|We are a manufacturer of xtreme sports luggage. Our line consists of snowboard bags, ski bags, travel luggages, moto x gear bag, etc... We also developed a line of snowboard jackets and pants, including inner wear and outer wear.
Kave Industries began operations in 2003
Bad info? Tell us
Kave Industries Contact Information
Kave Industries Website
New Gear From Kave Industries This Season
|New and improve cuts for ladie's snowboard pants.
Where to Buy Kave Industries Online
You can also purchase Kave Industries directly from their website
Kave Industries - Their Specialties
|Our bags uses the highest quality in material, along with trend setting designs, but yet keeping the retail price at the medium price range.
Kave Industries Products
Alpine Skiing
Alpine Ski Bags
Telemark Skiing
Telemark Bags and Packs
Men's Snowboard Apparel
Women's Snowboard Apparel
Men's Snowboard Jackets/Pants
Women's Snowboard Jackets/Pants
Other Snowboarding Softgoods