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Dear Commentariat-
You've been a bunch of assholes. The lot of you. Assholes. Even me, I'll admit it. There seems to be a lack of understanding about these parts, and I think it's time to do something about it. It seems to me that a lot of the arguments that take place down there revolve around statistics, as is, regrettably, so often the case these days. I think I've made it clear over my time writing here that I fall on the side of sabermetrics rather than what I like to call "baseball card stats" (pitcher wins, RBI, batting average, and other stats that are, you know, found on the back of a baseball card) in that debate, but I don't take any sort of normative view on people who don't. What gets me is that it's turned into an orgy of ad hominem attacks and evolved into the kind of passionate, dogmatic shouting match that has made the discussion of religion and politics into a chore.
I've tried to address this issue before, but I think I'll give it another crack. I think it might be useful to try to explain where those of us who prefer advanced statistics are coming from. If you prefer to be more old-school, I hope that, if you're not converted, you'll at least understand why we approach baseball, and evaluating it, the way we do. I know that some of my more devout brethren might take exception to this olive branch, but screw 'em. I'm sick of the crap that goes on in this comment section.
Why We Disagree
Believe it or not, what the baseball card set and sabermetricians spend their lives yelling at each other about is often surprisingly subtle. Most of the time, a good player is a good player by any measure, whether it's FIP or pitcher wins, RBI or wOBA. If a player hits .300 or drives in 120 runs in a season, that usually (but not always) means he's had a good year by advanced stats as well. It's also difficult (but not impossible) for a pitcher to win 20 games without posting good advanced numbers. Where we wind up screaming at each other is when we argue about whether CC Sabathia was the best pitcher in the AL in 2010, or, like, the fourth-best pitcher. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter a whole lot. It's not like we're making up stats as we go along.
We Don't Make Up Stats As We Go Along
No self-respecting sabermetrician cares about "batting average vs players from Cleavland born on Wednesdays with a last name starting with K." That's not a straw man–someone actually said that in yesterday's comment section. Things like WAR and win expectancy not only have to pass a smell test before gaining widespread acceptance, but they are created and examined with much the same rigor required by social scientists: does it tell us something useful? Is it a fluke, or is it repeatable? Ridiculous characterizations like the one above don't hold water because they have no bearing on actual performance and that is why statheads don't actually make those characterizations.
Of course, I love stats like that (I used to bandy about a theory that tied the Phillies' playoff success to the height of the opposing shortstop until Troy Tulowitzki ruined it in 2009), but only because I find them personally intriguing and not because I find any larger scientific significance. A player's batting average against pitchers born in Cleveland whose names start with K is a trivia question, not an instrument of sabermetric precision.
If someone references K/9 ratio as an important factor in pitching success or talks about a prospect's age in relation to his expected performance in the future, it's because past observations have proven those to be relevant indicators about a player's performance. Wilson Valdez grounded into a lot of double plays in the past, for instance, and all things being equal, he'll ground into a lot more in the future. Real, useful statistics don't come out of nowhere. Although, funnily enough, throughout baseball history, pitchers have had a lot of trouble against left-handed outfielders born in Donora, Pennsylvania on November 21 (see here and here). Though that could be a fluke.
What We Evaluate
In the comment section to the post that finally set me off, there was a debate about Wilson Valdez, a player about whom I've gotten into more shouting matches over the past year or so than any other. The argument was, more or less, whether Valdez's performance in Wednesday night's game was important to the Phillies' success. Valdez was hugely important, singling in the bottom of the eighth and scoring the winning run in a 2-1 game through some smart baserunning and a little bit of luck. Did he contribute to the Phillies' win on Wednesday? Enormously, and that's not in dispute. But that's not really the kind of thing we're after with sabermetrics. Advanced stats are better-suited to 1) explaining long-term trends in the past, 2) predicting performance of players and teams in the future, and 3) identifying optimal strategy and tactics. Like I said, it's kind of like social science. When the likes of Wilson Valdez help your team win a game, you cheer and order another round of drinks. It doesn't mean that, after more rigorous examination, it looks like Exxon will come through in the clutch tomorrow.
The Myth of the "Winning Player"
Scott Brosius got a reputation as a "winning player" because, in 1998, he showed up at third base for the New York Yankees and they won 114 games (then an American League record) and the World Series. In Brosius' four years in New York, the last four of his career, the Yankees won four straight pennants and three World Series. Don't get me wrong–in 1998, Brosius was a very good player: .300 batting average, 98 RBI, 121 OPS+ and 5.7 WAR, good numbers by any measure. However, in the next three years, 1999 to 2001, Brosius hit a combined .254 with a meager .316 OBP, less than one win above replacement per year. How "winning" was Brosius in those years? Well, not enough to hurt the Yankees' chances much, but they would have won more games if their third baseman in those years was, for instance, Chipper Jones. Notice also that in the first seven seasons of Brosius' career, when he was in Oakland, he didn't have a reputation as a winning player. Know why? Because he had bad teammates and in that time, the A's made the playoffs once, when Brosius only had 92 plate appearances and didn't make the playoff roster.
One of the favorite whipping boys around here is Bobby Abreu. Did Abreu look lackadaisical from time to time? Sure. But he is the Phillies' all-time leader in on-base percentage, a statistic no more advanced than batting average, and hit 195 home runs and stole 254 bases in his eight years and change here. Of course, Abreu doesn't get a reputation as a "winning" player, because the Phillies didn't make the playoffs at all when he was here, and started their run of dominance almost immediately after he left. Of course, that may have something to do with the fact that he arrived on a team with one other good position player (Scott Rolen), one good starting pitcher (Curt Schilling), and 22 players who ranged from Biblically awful to more or less average. The Phillies finished six games under .500, and if Barry Bonds had been playing right field for the Phillies in 1998, they may just have finished with a winning record. The trend continued for Abreu's entire stay, and the team improved after his departure not because Abreu was some sort of karmic albatross, but because Cole Hamels, Ryan Howard, Ryan Madson, and Chase Utley matured into all-star-quality players, and the team started acquiring the likes of Roy Halladay, Jayson Werth, and Brad Lidge. So what does the label "winning player" mean? Good taste in teammates.
One more note, about wins as a statistic. Those who evaluate players by baseball card stats often say that wins are the most important statistic, and to oversimplify a little, that's absolutely right. When evaluating a team holistically. But when evaluating players, the question gets more complicated. The job of a pitcher is not to win games, per se. The job of a pitcher (and his fielders) is to prevent batters from reaching base. Of course, if the pitcher does his job well, the team ought to win, because you can't win games if you don't score runs, and you can't score runs if you don't reach base. Of course, that all depends on his batters, whose job is the opposite, to score runs by reaching base. That's why stats like wOBA aren't so much based on team performance as by how often a player reaches base and how many bases he gains when he does.
So when we say that wins aren't important, don't misunderstand. They're supremely important, and any argument to the contrary is silly. But one player is only a part of a team, so it's unfair to judge the man by the outcome of a game in which he only plays a small part. It's more useful to judge him by something over which he has more control: reaching base and preventing the opposition from doing so.
Above All, We Enjoy the Game as Much as Anyone
This one you're just going to have to take my word on. If sabermetrics were Christianity, Bill James would be its St. Paul and Joe Posnanski would be its C.S. Lewis. Both of them are rabid Kansas City Royals fans. Mark Simon of ESPN's Stats and Info blog lives and dies with the New York Mets and has the same kind of irrational likes and dislikes about the team as a grocer from South Orange who can barely add up Francisco Rodriguez's assault arrests. So people like me, or Bill Baer, or Paul Boye, or the Seidman brothers, who piss people off on the internet by throwing around baseball-related acronyms that would make the United Nations blush, are perfectly capable of having an emotional attachment to a team. We go to games, we swear at the TV, we buy jerseys and hats, we rejoice when the Phillies win and we despair when they lose.
What advanced statistics offer the average fan, then, is a deeper understanding of the game. It's more information, and that means more ammunition in arguments about whose team is better, whose cleanup hitter you'd rather have up with the game on the line, and what free agent you wish your team would sign in the offseason. These are the kind of arguments that make up the lion's share of being a baseball fan. For me, arguing about baseball makes up 60 percent of what I talk and think about, so qualitative concepts like "Wilson Valdez sure has a great throwing arm" and "Ryan Howard strikes out a lot" get a little worn out and left me looking for something deeper.
That's really, at the risk of sounding needlessly grandiose, what sabermetrics are about: finding truth, understanding, and meaning in baseball. That's all. It's not some conspiracy by a bunch of sports-hating nerds who are trying to exact revenge on you for the way you treated them in high school by stealing the beauty from the game you love. That's really what bothers me most of all about this argument: that someone's going to accuse me of wanting anything from baseball statistics other than to understand the game better.
To sum, because I've gone on for nearly 2,000 words about an argument on the internet, here's a novel idea: if you don't understand a statistic, don't reject it out of hand without understanding it; you're only exposing your own ignorance and immaturity. I'm sure if you ask, someone will explain it. I've never seen a serious question get mocked by a stathead, even on the internet. So try out some of these stats for size–they're not actually all that complicated to understand because numbers are numbers, whether it's RBI or VORP–and if you don't like them, you can say you tried it and didn't like it, and everyone will leave you alone.
Or you can keep making dick jokes and referencing a misstatement of gambler's fallacy when someone who's done his homework makes an argument you don't understand. But if you do, you're on your own–I just can't be bothered to put up with that kind of nonsense anymore.
Love always,
0 Comments
I must have missed some big brouhaha here, but if anyone here has any questions about Sabermetrics, I'd be happy to explain the concepts, or direct you to someone else with more expertise.
– http://crashburnalley.com
– http://twitter.com/CrashburnAlley
– crashburnalley [at] gmail [dot] com
I'm sure Michael and the others he mentioned towards the end of his article would be equally as happy to help.
Very well said, could not have said it better myself. As someone who gets more interested in baseball every year, sabermetrics allow me to gain a greater understanding, and also give me context for the game as a whole. Some of the stuff that's figured out really is cool.
Well thought and well said.
I look at it this way:
1. Card stats tell us what happened in a game. Those stats were never designed to evaluate a player. They were set up to record what happened.
2. Sabrmetrics tell us what a player is capable and incapable of.
I look forward to reading all the hate mail we will receive today.
Hey Pub, do you live in Snohomish County?
Michael, nicely stated, but I think you'll win few converts overnight. Understanding and utilizing advanced statistics are tough, and often conflict with memorial moments (Travis Lee hit a home run the day my son was born, Bobby Abreu ducked the wall on what should have been an easy out the night I got laid off,…). Plus, it is easier to site intangibles to make a point (how can you prove that stuff wrong?).
I can understand Pub's attachment for sabremetrics – being a Mariner fan, watching some of the worst signings in the past 10 years that would have never happened if someone in the org had knowledge of advanced statistics (Washburn, Batista, Johjima, Silva) – all these guys had decent traditional stats, but a ton of warning signs (whip, adj era, ….).
Keep it up though, bombard people enough with WAR, UZR, xFIP,…, and it will slowly take root.
Haha no way! I had no idea that was in Washington state, weird.
As for my part, I apologize for anything I have said or commented that took us down the path of baseless ad hominem attacks, which contribute absolutely nothing to the debate. Baumann hits the nail on the head for me and what us numbers nerds try to do (and not do).
And bfo you are absolutely right, being a Mariners fan has probably driven me even further towards the numbers camp. Things like the Carlos Silva signing, the Erik Bedard trade and other incredibly dumb moves which were backed up by more "traditional" thinking only furthered the salience of stats like xFIP, WAR and other stats.
These stats also help keep me grounded when I see a player on one of my teams overperform. Take Doug Fister, SP for the Mariners who pitched 8 innings of 1-run ball vs. the Angels yesterday. He has a really shiny ERA of 2.93, and some M's fans are already thinking they can trade Fister for people like Swisher, Montero or other sorts of awesome players. The truth is he has an xFIP of 4.07, and most likely will turn into a pumpkin sooner rather than later.
Again, excellent article Michael, and my humble apologies if I have detracted from the discourse of this blog.
I don't understand this whole article. What does Commetariat have to do with the Phillies? How does WAR apply to the greatest race horse that ever lived? If you get a chance, youtube the 1973 Belmont Stakes. Talk about an unbrakeable record. What a horse. Lets get some Phils chatter goin. Like why in the world Dom Brown is still down in LV? Non sensical.
The Dipsy
As you alluded to in the article, its hard from some fans to embrace advanced stats especially when they show evidence that their favorite player(s) may not be as good as they think they are. Or that a rival player may be better. It takes a more objective mindset to accept this sort of thing. I don't say that to insult anyone but, more often than not, it's the fans that have a more difficult time letting go of the emotion they have for players and or teams that have a harder time with advanced stats.
Quite possible the best piece i've ever read on here… no offense to Pat, Tim Malcom, Corey, The BEERMAN, or anyone else ….You took a very tough subject and said how you see your side of the coin, and why.. nicely done.
Like Pat, I think the eye test is a very useful tool…. heart and hustle, and heads-up play aren't something that can always be calculated.. That said, there are stats that can prove, that certain players are very good, but unlucky, etc. . . . I want to say that as short as 5 years ago, I don't think Felix Hernandez would have won the Cy Young Award – so that is a little victory for the Saber people..
Probably my biggest problem with Saberfolks is what Corey said to me the other day, about how my views are "unsubstantiated" – basically, anything that I can't prove with a formula, is wrong – and that's not the case.. Just anything everything can be proven with statistics isn't neccessarily right, its all about how you use those stats, since there are ways to lie with everything.
**More people die in plane crashes today than in the 1960's … therefore, airplane travel is more dangerous today than it was 50 years ago.
While the fact remains that more people DO die in plane crashed today than they did in the 1960s – we didn't mention the fact that there are many times more people traveling, etc… i know that doesn't relate to baseball, and im not trying to argue anything here – but there are two sides to every story – and like a wise man (Dave Matthews) once said, "the ground beneath is nothing more than my point of view" …. Its a shame to everything turns into arguements, but the non-saber folks are all too quick to dismiss everything, and the saberfolks think everyone else is dumb for not sharing their opinion, thinking its all facts … Im sure this debate will continue for a long time to come – but hopefully we can all find that middle ground, and agree to disagree when we need to
Again, great work on this article!
When you learn to swim, you don't just jump right into the deep end. Sabremetrics have to be eased into. Doggie paddle around in the shallow pool with VORP and WAR for a while. Those two stats alone give you mountains of insight to a player's true value, but they don't bog you down with so many numbers that you lose the "eye test."
As far as I know, no stat is going to tell you that Ross Gload broke the wrong way before catching a fly ball to right last night. So your eyes are still as important as ever, but advanced stats are far more than just numbers manipulated to prove any happening.
My favorite saber-stat is SIERA. LOVE that stat and learned about it relatively recently (last year or so). Gives you a very good idea of which pitchers are simply awesome and which are not. It makes it easy to identify guys with elite stuff who were sorta flying under the radar until now (think Kershaw, Weaver, Nolasco).
At the same time, I'm a guy who was/is a big fan of a pitcher like Happ –partly because of the results he got, partly because of his demeanor and poise. I know that advanced stats say that he's a mediocre pitcher (while "baseball card" stats say he's pretty decent) but the eye test said so much more in this case…
All in all, it's a compromise. Normally I rely on advanced stats, but every now and then I make an exception when I believe that those stats don't fit well with what I'm seeing with my own eyes.
PS. I know Valdez is a pretty sub-par player, but I think that all in all he's better than what advanced stats say he is. 😉
I think like 3 weeks ago, WAR said that Carl Crawford was the 3rd worst OF in baseball . . . a few days ago, he improved to be only the 4th worst OF in baseball
So sometimes, stats don't tell the truth… or maybe we're just too quck to try to measure from small sample sizes.. that's why I like to look at Career Averages of the "baseball card stats" – I feel that represents a true look of what can be done … as everyone's had their fair share of luck at some point – so what is the average – what is your best, are you improving or declining, etc.
Rollins will never be the MVP again, and while he's looked (I don't want to say "shakey") less than himself in the field the past 3 weeks – he's still an above average player and helpful to any team in the big leagues .. According to WAR, Rollins is the 8th ranked SS so far this year, and when you see him below names like Jose Reyes, Alexei Ramirez, Troy Tulo – you think that makes sense … but then you see that Hanley Ramirez is 20th among SS ….
So while it gives a great indication of who is great in that given time frame, it leaves something out of the picture … I'd love to know more about how the DEFENSIVE stuff gets rated
The key to stats is to know when to use them. WAR is really only an effective measure after at least half a season, if not even later than that. I've tried to avoid using WAR this season because it's simply too early to use it effectively. Come trade deadline time I might use it simply to get a rough (and admittedly very limited) look at some of the proposals y'all come up with. So saying that one stat showing one thing this early in the season invalidates the stat is a flawed argument. The sample size is simply too small. Though you would be right in chastising people who used it this early.
With any statistic, what's most important is that you know the strengths and weaknesses of what you're wielding, and therefore how to use and how not to use it. You're right that WAR (the Fangraphs flavor) right now has Carl Crawford as the 4th worst qualified OF in baseball, and I think we can all agree that this is not the case. But this isn't isolated to WAR. He's also (tied for) the 5th worst if you go by RBI or batting average, and tied for 4th worst by runs scored. It's obvious to us, of course, that all of these numbers will improve. So it isn't WAR that is failing here, it's the way we're attempting to use WAR — to evaluate a player using a sample of 174 plate appearances. WAR can't do that, nor can any statistic. What you can conclude from that is that Crawford has not been very valuable to his team so far. I don't think anyone would disagree with that.
If you expand the time frame, I think WAR starts to tell more of the stories you are looking for. Just as a random example, who have been the most valuable shortstops from 2006 to present? By WAR, it's Hanley Ramirez, Derek Jeter, Jose Reyes, and Jimmy Rollins. These are reasonable results, right? Who is the most valuable position player in Phillies history? By WAR, it's Mike Schmidt, and it's not close. Or the most valuable centerfielder in the MLB since 1900? Willie Mays. Pretty often, these will agree with general impressions of fans and also a lot of traditional stats; it's not like any of those are groundbreaking assertions. But like Mike said, WAR helps us out for the finer things, like who was the 9th or 10th most valuable centerfielder in the MLB since 1900 (Richie Ashburn and Willie Davis, respectively).
Part of the reason sample size is important when you're talking about WAR is because of what you asked about — the defensive component. Fangraphs WAR uses UZR, which is the subject of some scrutiny and disagreement among saber-heads. The general consensus is that you need at least 3 years of data for UZR to become stable, so often for single season data people will use Baseball Reference WAR (for which the defensive component has its own issues). Basically, defense is not easy to quantify — but it's going to get easier. Stadiums are beginning to implement new tracking systems that collect data on the position of every player on the field, the position of the ball, and all of their velocities. When that data starts to trickle down, a lot of stat minds will probably be able to do amazing stuff with it.
So the larger the sample, the better, for WAR.
The "eye test", or also known as the "sniff test" is a very important thing. WAR seeks to place a value on a player while "old school stats" on record what the players has done. I see the difference. But I think where the rubber meets the road, and where the schism occurs, is when WAR attempts to fill the gap that traditional stats don't by purportedly placing an absolute value on a player, which is impossible to do.
Bobby Abreu is a perfect example. Great stats. Great WAR numbers. But when you apply the "sniff" test, and we did a lot of sniffing when Abreu was here, he's just not as good as any number you wanna put on him. Contrary to what many think, there is such a thing as having "IT". The thing that can make players around you better that is unquantifiable. Some guys with great numbers just don't inspire, engender trust and loyalty, are likable, or make you wanna be there teammate and play with them. Abreu never had it. Not a bad guy. Bottom line: When you over at your teammate and you wanna bust your ass for him, theres real value in that. I'm not getting all cotton candy…its true. No number can be put on it. WAR or otherwise.
But we as fans know it when we see it. So when a WAR guy says "Abreu has a better VOR than
……Garry Maddox, well, thats great. But no one in the world would take Abreu over Maddox. Maddox had, for lack of a better term IT. Rose, Munson, Jeter, Utley, Fisk, Clemens. These guys are examples. Bonds, Abreu, Palmiero, Canseco, did not have IT. They were the anti-IT.
Old timers go with what the see and perceive and old time stats and watching games is all they need. WAR guys watch games, too And love baseball. But they can't capture a very important aspect of a player's value. And that gap is where the arguments are, for the most part. And ne'er the 'tween shall meet.
The Dipsy
Well said Dipsy . . . kinda relates to the talk before about Charlie Manuel… he's clearly not the best X's and O's guy , BUT when players openly, repeatedly say how much they love playing for him (might be smoke, but we didn't hear this nearly as much when they played for Francona, Bowa, etc..) …. If these guys feel comfortable with Charlie, and they know how loyal he is, they play loose, which im pretty sure everyone would see Does/Would/Should contribute more to winning than guys that are tense all the time – being in a clubhouse that doesn't get along etc..
We don't think that stuff matters that much but look at those LA Lakers are all the drama they have going on…
Again, not saying Charlie is great, or Abreu wasn't . . . but some things that effect the game of baseball just can't be measured – I think that's a great point that The Dipsy makes (but realize there are A LOT of things that CAN be measured too)
Holy crow, that's a lot to read on a Friday morning, but this is unbelievably well written! Great job, Baumann!
My dad didn't raise me on stats, and I don't think he really believes in them, so trying to learn the names and formulas has been, well, interesting. Sabermetrics is definitely useful, I'll never deny that, and shows you an incredible amount of information about a player, a team even, but I'll always maintain that no player, or the game of baseball, will ever be able to be predicted. Yes, the simple W is outdated but we, all of us, have to remember that there are different ways to look at a "winning player," just as there are always going to be multiple views on anything else.
The only thing fans can do is accept how others view the game and the criteria with which the view success and loss… whether it's by stats or by day-to-day performances of their players.
Hey Sweey Dee! You're pretty foxy. Gotta boyfriend?
The Dipsy
Michael, great piece. As one of the "old-schoolers" let me say that I DO look at and apply and embrace some of the sabr-stats that are out there. They are not only informative, but clearly very necessary. The example of King Felix illustrates that perfectly.
My issue has always been the sort of "shoving it down everyone's throat CONDESCENDIINGLY" approach that some of the sabr guys use on here. I won't mention names but I think we know who they are. At least YOU, Michael, had the ba!!s to admit that Wilson Valdez played a HUGE role in Wednesday night's win.
Your words: "Enormously, and that's not in dispute."
Kudos to you for being a man and admitting that. Again, and I won't mention who, there are
a few that just can't seem to do that, instead CONSTANTLY finding fault with him and other
players, too.
And, for the record, I get that Valdez is nothing but a utility player that can EASILY be replaced.
And I get that some of Raul's stats are hard to look at and that MAYBE a move needs to be made at some point (although he is hitting better as of late). All well-founded arguments that have some great stats to support those arguments.
I just have a problem with all the constant negativity and only hope that some of you can see BEYOND all the fancy stats at least SOMETIMES. I think, Michael, that you have done a very good thing here by extending the olive branch. I agree that this is one of the best articles written here. Well done!
Go Phils!!
I think part of the problem of the Wilson Valdez battle is that you and I are not communicating clearly on this point.
It's happened in multiple threads where I make some reference to Wilson Valdez being bad, and you accuse me of not recognizing his contributions. But I do, and I think we even agree on the level of his contributions. The thing is, it's still accurate to say that he's bad while recognizing that he was a useful piece in 2010. And I don't disagree with Michael that he was vital to the win on Wednesday. But in yesterday's thread, I wasn't really talking about that game — it was a discussion of the roster as a whole, so it didn't seem relevant.
And to that last point about Wednesday's win, I liked this comment:
Card stats tell us what happened in a game. Those stats were never designed to evaluate a player. They were set up to record what happened.
When I look at a box score for a game I didn't see, I do look at the RBI column. I would never use it to evaluate a player or draw conclusions for anything more than a single game, but for single games I want to see who had the hits that drove in runs. It's useful as a narrative of that single game. So I wouldn't say that Valdez didn't make a huge contribution to Wednesday's win — that would be silly. What I would say is that, in the larger context, that doesn't tell us anything about him as a player.
Absloutely. That makes sense. "larger context" are the key words here. As I said, I recognize that he's a utility player and a utility player only. He has contributed well in his time here but can obviously be easily replaced.
That said, I will maintain that, despite that there are others that can do his job, Valdez helped the Phillies in a big way last season when we had MULTIPLE INJURIES to Polanco, Rollins and Utley. It's probably too much to say that he was a "savior" (and I know I've said that very word myself) ….but…..I'm damn glad that he was able to do what he did when he did it.
You're a good man for not singling me out. I apologize if I come across as condescending and will work on my tone in the future.
Hey, I can be condescending, too. Like I said, I think we all have the ability to be a d!ck sometimes. I accept your apology and extend the same to you.
That said, I will maintain that, despite that there are others that can do his job, Valdez helped the Phillies in a big way last season when we had MULTIPLE INJURIES to Polanco, Rollins and Utley. It's probably too much to say that he was a "savior" (and I know I've said that very word myself) ….but…..I'm damn glad that he was able to do what he did when he did it
And I don't disagree with any of this, so I think writing it out in a very clear way helped.
My favorite saber-stat is SIERA. LOVE that stat and learned about it relatively recently (last year or so). Gives you a very good idea of which pitchers are simply awesome and which are not. It makes it easy to identify guys with elite stuff who were sorta flying under the radar until now (think Kershaw, Weaver, Nolasco).
At the same time, I'm a guy who was/is a big fan of a pitcher like Happ –partly because of the results he got, partly because of his demeanor and poise. I know that advanced stats say that he's a mediocre pitcher (while "baseball card" stats say he's pretty decent) but the eye test said so much more in this case…
All in all, it's a compromise. Normally I rely on advanced stats, but every now and then I make an exception when I believe that those stats don't fit well with what I'm seeing with my own eyes.
PS. I know Valdez is a pretty sub-par player, but I think that all in all he's better than what advanced stats say he is. 😉
Olive branch Never! This is WAR! Actually, it is WAR. WAR….HUH! What is it good for……?
The Dipsy
Well, like the old saying goes, "Make love, not WAR"
Peace, all.
TheDipsy – maybe you can define the "IT" for us because it sure sounds pretty subjective. Seems to be a way for people to reinforce an opinion of a player they already have. It does nothing to help with the evaluation of a player.
Nice article but I reject the broad brush of "The Commentariat". Let's face it, it was primarily a note to Andrew and perhaps Pub for continuing to bait him. Most of us here appreciate the stats
Whew !!!!!
Mark – You're comment is also the best illustration of the point I was trying to make.
The Dipsy
I think the title "The Commentariat" is actually right on. We ALL are guilty at times of being argmentative on here. Yes, maybe Andrew and Publius moreso, but we all at times can act like a d!ck.
Probably my biggest problem with Saberfolks is what Corey said to me the other day, about how my views are "unsubstantiated" – basically, anything that I can't prove with a formula, is wrong – and that's not the case.. Just anything everything can be proven with statistics isn't neccessarily right, its all about how you use those stats, since there are ways to lie with everything.
**More people die in plane crashes today than in the 1960′s … therefore, airplane travel is more dangerous today than it was 50 years ago.
I have two problems with this assertion, that "you can prove anything with statistics."
The first issue is that, well, you can't. You can, indeed, incorporate a statistic into your argument in anyway you like, using any combination of calculations and numerical manipulations that you desire. But unless the statistic a) has widely-recognized credibility and b) is relevant to and supportive of the argument you're making, then your "proof" is flawed. So have you really "proven" anything? The point is that, the only way I could use statistics to prove anything is if the person I was talking to was completely incurious and unskeptical, willing to take anything and everything that I say at face value. Almost everywhere, and especially here, that is definitely not the case. I leave a comment that says "Matt Harrison has induced the most popups of any pitcher so far in 2011, therefore he has been the best pitcher so far this year," and not a single commenter would let me get away with that. So I haven't "proven" anything, despite the fact that I made an argument and offered a statistic that supposedly supported it.
The second issue is that this implies some kind of attempt at deception on behalf of the person wielding a statistic. Like Michael, I don't want anything out of statistics other than to understand the game better. And when I talk about players and teams with other people, I don't use statistics for any other reason then to convey that understanding to the person I'm talking to, and see if they agree or not.
And just to be clear Don, I'm not arguing with you in particular, that sentiment is just something I see a lot and I disagree with it.
The other day you posted something like how since 2010- Ryan Howard's OPS is ….. a stat line that had him seem as productive as Billy Butler on the Royals. So in that case, you did attempt deception – to use it to your advantage to say that Ryan Howard isn't that much better, if at all, than Player X …
WE ALL DO IT … that's my point. Any stat can be used in any way, and every argument has people searching for points to help prove their point.
Regarding the box score watching, etc.. you said above that you check it to see who had a key hit to drive in a run that game, and "It's useful as a narrative of that single game" …. so the keys that REGULARLY have hits to drive in runs, yea they benefit from having guys on base, but they are still getting the job done and driving in those runs – taking advantage of holes created by runners on base, etc… So that's why RBIs shouldn't be discounted, and a strong arguement for Howard – who going from 2005-2010 had the most RBI in MLB Howard 743, ARod 735, Pujols 726, Teixiera 710, Miggy 705
As the article pointed out though… the great players are usually great no matter what formulas we use.. I've learned a lot from a lot of the pitching stuff on here over the past year – won some decent coin in fantasy baseball (riding Chacin, Kennedy, Kershaw, etc this year too) … I learn from you guys,
I wasn't the one that posted the thing about Howard's OPS, but since you brought it up:
Howard's OPS since 2010 is .844. Billy Butler's is .849. From that, it's perfectly reasonable to say that Howard has been about as effective as Billy Butler at the plate over that time period. I don't see what's deceptive about that at all.
And I can't agree with you on RBI. It is just not a useful metric for comparing or evaluating players. It depends on your spot in the batting order, and the talent of those around the hitter. There is too much variance in the amount of RBI opportunities available to hitters. In the right set of circumstances, even a fringe hitter can rack up 100 or more in a season.
my bad, I think that was Pubs that said that…
Anyway, what I forgot to say about the "since 2010" thing is that if you do it only from that time, they are really close in OPS (not sure how I left this out since it was the main thing floating around my head)
But if you take if from their Career Numbers . . .. Howard .937 (ranked 31st ALL TIME for Career OPS leaders)…. Butler = .816
So using Bill James' ratings… Howard rates as A = EXCELLENT.. Butler rates as C = GOOD
But to defend the people that are anti-OPS-is-Everything here…. TODD HELTON ranks 10th all time… ahead of 11 – Mickie Mantle, 12- Joe Dimaggio, 13 – Stan Musial …
so it doesn't prove anything, you can use it to say its great if you're a Howard fan and look, see how good he is …. or you can use it to say its BS because in no way, shape or form is Helton better than those three, unless of course people trust OPS above all else
Okay… so I woke up to find out I was an asshole? "The lot of us" if I remember correctly.
I don't know how to respond, except to say that my name is in that thread, and I'm not what you say I am.
Is a comment section a bad place for lively debate? If so, maybe I do meet the requirements of your assertion. I mean- I'm not blind, I see the occasional "I'm superior" type of comments, as well as the personal attacks. And although I don't partake in either, I do find them amusing. And I'm guilty of a snarky sarcastic comment now and then too.
An example would be last night's Game day thread when someone suggested we should not be pitching to Giambi in his subsequent at bats after his three home runs. I took the stand that we have to pitch to him otherwise it would look to the entire world this morning as an act of cowardice. After they retorted, I was a bit snarky to the other person- not the first time, but after they made their (weak) case a second time. But I don't know that that makes me an asshole.
Michael, before finish, let me just say that you have always been my favorite read on this site. The piece with the Dark Knight/Joker reference and many others were absolute gold.
As to your post last night, like I said yesterday in that thread you have taken such offense to, there are no absolutes. No one is absolutely right or wrong. And no statistic or eye test can absolutely predict future performance. I gave a couple of examples yesterday, – I think I used Steve Stone and Jose Bautista, neither of whom showed any sign during mediocre careers of becoming a Cy Young winner, and a power hitter. But I believe all tools at our disposal should be used to determine our opinions. Opinions, not absolutes.
Yet people can be so entrenched in their corners. I wish you the best of luck in changing that. Anyway, I'm going to go tell my wife I'm an asshole now, she'll get a real kick out of it.
Hey, asshole…..why did you suggest trading Hamels for Bautista the other day?? Just kidding. But….I really thought you were serious when you suggested that. I didn't pick up on your sarcasm. My bad.
Hey Lefty, I think you're an asshole for whats it worth :0
The Dipsy
Didn't someone once say "Stats are for losers"?
The Dipsy
I am exactly one of "the old school"people that is turned off by the use of modern baseball stats.I dont care if you use them,but the enjoyment of baseball itself loses something when it gets too scientific.
And before all you guys start to get all warm and fuzzy and look for curtains together,listen to this….
JRoll yesterday said something to the effect that they were THINKING like a last place team.
Now I'm Worried..
Stats? i don't need stats – I played the game! Moneyball – I don't need to read that book to know it's wrong! (sound of head burying in sand…….)
I am laughing so hard I can't get my work done, you bunch of assholes. 🙂
Hey Pat, my comments aren't going through when I log in. I don't know why! I have to logout and "comment without logging in." Help? Thanks, asshole… (jk)
I guess this is basicly in a good portion imed at me.
I am not offended at all.
I also know some people take stuff to serious and in a way I make fun of it.
I have really tried to be " nice" this year.
Carlos Ruiz has a career WAR of plus 7. Wins above replacement is based on the replacement being a league minimum bring up from triple A, So they are saying Dane Sardinah. Accoridng to WAR Ruiz has been worth 7 more games in his career over Sardinah. I think some of the stat stuff is foolish.
Say what you want about Abreau but the team got better the day he left.
But I am not going to argue. I mean no offense when I poke fun etc etc.
I am sorry some take it more seriously then it is meant.
And when I post in a stupid manner it is often intentional.
Regarding the current state of the Phillies
"What, me worry?"
– Alfred E. Neuman
I am considering changing my moniker from Andrew from waldorf to Andrew the Asshole or Commentariet.
Lefty, I find it hard to believe that it took until just this morning for you to realize that you were actually an asshole.
The Dipsy
A$$hole, Sh!t, D!ck, Phuck … I feel like Frank the Tank in Old School
The enjoyment I got out of reading this tread cannot be measured. 🙂
Thread… I need a cold one.
What's with all the hand-holding on this thread? I've never seen anything like this on here. Am I on the right site? j/k
This has actually been one of the most enjoyable articles and commentaries I've read on here in awhile.


text:
June 21, 2013 —
When Dr. David Sager filed a lawsuit against Randy Parker, the commissioner of the Sullivan County Department of Family Services, on June 11, for allegedly firing Sager because Sager was looking into mishandled cases of sexual child abuse, it was not the first time Parker was named in a lawsuit.
He was named in at least three lawsuits in connection with his position as the executive director of Richland County Children Services (RCCS) in Ohio. Parker held that position for about 10 years and left in August 2012, shortly before taking up his current position in Sullivan County.
According to court documents, the first case was filed by Jeffrey McBride, a sergeant with the Richland County Sheriff's Office (RCSO). McBride investigated claims of child abuse, and at one "he came under investigation himself by the RCSO for alleged wrongdoing." McBride claimed that Parker asked that another officer be assigned to investigate RCCS cases and the sheriff's office complied.
According to a ruling by the Ohio Court of Appeals, in his complaint, "McBride alleged that Parker published statements that McBride was a disruptive influence on Children Services; that he had inappropriate discussions with Children Services staff; that he was 'sloughing' off; and that he was guilty of other dishonest conduct."
A state court ruled that Parker could not be sued because he was immune from prosecution. But in May 2012 the appeals court overturned that ruling and said that Parker was not immune from prosecution, and the case could go forward. According to a source familiar with the case, it was later settled.
A second case was filed against Parker by Alverta Williams, who owns and operates the Mary McLeod-Bethune Intervention and Enrichment Center in Richland County. At one point Parker removed a "ward" from the facility. In a decision issued by the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit, the court wrote that "Williams alleges that the decision to remove the individual from the home was representative of a pattern of racially discriminatory behavior by RCCS in its residential placement decisions."
As in the McBride case, Parker's attorneys argued in both the lower federal court and the appeals court that because of his position he was immune from prosecution. Both courts disagreed, and the appeals court in July 2012 ruled that Parker is not immune and the lawsuit could go forward. Williams did not immediately respond to a request for comment regarding the current status of the state.
In May, Williams was indicted on 38 counts of theft from people who lived at the facility; she later pleaded not guilty.
A third lawsuit in which Parker was named was filed in April of this year. According to an account of the lawsuit in the Port Clinton News Herald, it was filed by a former employee, Mindy Wymer, and her husband, William Wymer; they charged that Parker and other employees of RCCS violated their constitutional rights.
The couple claimed RCCS employees wrongly ordered their four children into foster care for less than a month, and in the process committed a number of wrongs. The news report said that Mindy's position was created by Parker for her, but he later complained about her performance to other employees.
According to the news account, after the incidents with their children the couple, "filed a grievance with Parker, and the former director failed to make a timely response to their complaints." The couple could not be immediately reached for comment.
County legislators and Parker declined to comment on this story.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
2003 Spring Training Kevin Youkilis poses for his team photo at spring training in 2003. He batted just .165 in 32 games in Triple-A Pawtucket that year after hitting .327 in Double-A Portland. (Photo by Craig Jones/Getty Images)
2004 Spring Training Kevin Youkilis sports jersey No. 55 for the Sox at spring training in '04. (Photo by Rick Stewart/Getty Images)
2004 Spring Training Youkilis stands at third base during a spring training game in 2004. (Photo by Rick Stewart/Getty Images)
2005 Yankee Stadium Kevin Youkilis talks with cadets from West Point before a game at Yankee Stadium in 2005. (Photo by Ezra Shaw/Getty Images)
2005 On Stage At The Avalon Kevin Youkilis sings with Johnny Damon, Lenny DiNardo and Bronson Arroyo at a party for Arroyo's CD release. (Photo by Darren McCollester/Getty Images)
2006 At Fenway Park David Ortiz jokes with Kevin Youkilis before a game at Fenway Park in 2006. (Photo by Jim McIsaac/Getty Images)
2007 ALDS Game 3 Kevin Youkilis celebrates at the plate after Manny Ramirez hit a walk-off homer to win the 2007 ALDS for the Red Sox. (Photo by Jim Rogash/Getty Images)
2007 ALCS Game 5 Kevin Youkilis celebrates his home run with Manny Ramirez in Game 5 of the ALCS. The Sox entered the game down 3-1 in the series, but Youkilis' homer in the second at-bat of the game gave them an early lead. (Photo by Gregory Shamus/Getty Images)
2007 ALCS Game 6 Kevin Youkilis celebrates J.D. Drew's grand slam in Game 6 of the 2007 ALCS against the Cleveland Indians. (Photo by Jim Rogash/Getty Images)
2007 World Series Game 1 Kevin Youkilis slides home safely in the second inning of Game 1 of the 2007 World Series. (Photo by Jed Jacobsohn/Getty Images)
2007 World Series Game 2 Kevin Youkilis tags out Matt Holliday on a Jonathan Paplebon pickoff in the eighth inning of Game 2 of the 2007 World Series. Holliday represented the tying run but instead turned into the final out of the inning. (Photo by Jed Jacobsohn/Getty Images)
2007 World Series Game 4 Kevin Youkilis celebrates with Red Sox teammates after they won the 2007 World Series. (Photo by Jed Jacobsohn/Getty Images)
2007 World Series Parade
during the Boston Red Sox World Series Victory Celebration on October 30, 2007 in Boston, MassachusettsKevin Youkilis celebrates the 2007 World Series title during the team's parade through Boston. (Photo by Elsa/Getty Images)
2008 Season Opener In Japan Kevin Youkilis warms up before a game against the Oakland A's in Tokyo to begin the 2008 season. (Photo by KAZUHIRO NOGI/AFP/Getty Images)
2008 World Series Ring Presentation Kevin Youkilis, alongside Dustin Pedroia and Mike Lowell, accepts his 2007 World Series ring during a pregame celebration in April 2008. Photo by Brian Snyder-Pool/Getty Images)
2008 MLB All-Star Game Kevin Youkilis talks with manager Terry Francona on the field at Yankee Stadium during batting practice of the 2008 MLB All-Star Game. (Photo by Jim McIsaac/Getty Images)
2008 Playoff Clincher Kevin Youkilis celebrates with fans after the Red Sox clinched a playoff berth with a September win over Cleveland. (Photo by Elsa/Getty Images)
2008 ALCS Game 3 Kevin Youkilis stands on the field before the Red Sox host the Rays in Game 3 of the 2008 ALCS. (Photo by Jim Rogash/Getty Images)
2008 ALCS Game 5 Kevin Youkilis celebrates at the plate after scoring the winning run in Game 5 of the 2008 ALCS. The Sox trailed 7-0 in the seventh inning but rallied to win in the ninth on a walk-off single by J.D. Drew. (Photo by Jim Rogash/Getty Images)
2009 World Baseball Classic Kevin Youkilis greets new teammate Derek Jeter and the more familiar Dustin Pedroia prior to a game in the World Baseball Classic in March 2009. (Photo by Elsa/Getty Images)
2011 In Anaheim One thing that never changed about Kevin Youkilis during his career was his unique batting stance. It worked for him -- he hit .287 with 133 home runs in his career in Boston. (Photo by Stephen Dunn/Getty Images)
2012 For Fenway Farewell The fans knew their time with Kevin Youkilis was running out, so they gave him a standing ovation for his first at-bat against the Atlanta Braves on Sunday, June 24, 2012. (Photo by Winslow Townson/Getty Images)
2012 For Fenway Farewell Kevin Youkilis acknowledges the Fenway Park crowd after being taken out of the game for a pinch runner in the seventh inning. It was his final time on the field as a member of the Red Sox. (Photo by Winslow Townson/Getty Images)
2012 For Fenway Farewell Kevin Youkilis steps out of the dugout for one last farewell to Fenway Park fans. (Photo by Winslow Townson/Getty Images)


text:
This means the closure was done under President Bush's administration. I have removed the Fox News video because it was very misleading.
Fox News is reporting that an eighty mile strip of Buenos Aires National Wildlife Refuge in Arizona has been closed to Americans because the United States cannot control it. The portion runs along the United States-Mexican border. Apparently, neither United States Fish and Wildlife Service nor the Border Control feel it can control the area as the presence of Mexican narco-militias combined with armed border runners has made the closed area to dangerous to police.
The closure of a portion of the refuge makes it an ungoverned space which the United States claims but has more or less given up on controlling for the time being. Many commentators have blasted Pakistan for being unable to control Waziristan. Some other observers have gone so far to mock Mexico for losing much of its populated northern cities to drug gangs. If these narco-militias use the closed area of the wildlife refuge to either launch raids against the Mexican military or even use it as a base for conducting inter-gang warfare in Arizona, will the United States have any credibility to criticize any other country for not controlling its own lawless groups and territory?


text: Ever since I was a little girl, I've found engagement rings totally perplexing. The part about them being symbols of love and commitment made sense. I got the commercial appeal, too – after all, I was a child of the nineties. I had enough merchandise from every TV or book series I liked to learn [Read More…]


text: Troy and Erin Curet are living the American dream. They own a four-bedroom home, have two cars, two children – a boy and a girl – and one chocolate Labrador. Both are employed: Troy, a manager at Red Mesa Grill, and Erin, a stylist at Epiphany Salon. It's a good life, but they don't want it.


text:
Winter can create a beautiful landscape outside your home, but snow and ice can also be a problem for your palace.
Clearing your sidewalks and driveway are always a good idea when it snows, but there are other things you should remember when Old Man Winter comes calling.
Frozen pipes that burst are never any fun and can create a real mess in your basement or elsewhere in your house. Pipes in attics, crawl spaces and outside walls are particularly vulnerable.
Be sure to drain all outdoor hoses and disconnect them from the faucet. Turn off the outside water lines and open the spigots to drain the standing water in the pipes.
To prevent water pipes from freezing, wrap outdoor faucets and pipes in unheated areas with an insulating material.
Keep a trickle of water running from the indoor faucet that's farthest away from the main water pipe (where the water enters the house). That should keep the pipes from freezing.
Place an insulation jacket around your water heater if it's in an unheated area.
Home owners with high efficiency, direct vent furnaces and water heaters need to make sure the vents have not been covered with snow or blocked in any way. A blocked vent means a furnace and water heater won't operate.
Ice dams are an accumulation of ice at the lower edge of a sloped roof. When the heat from inside the home melts the snow, water can run down and refreeze at the roof's edge.
If the ice builds up and blocks water from draining off the roof, water is forced under the roof covering and into your attic or down the inside walls of your house.
To reduce the risk of ice dams forming during the winter months, make sure your gutters are clear of leaves and debris.
Keep the attic well-ventilated so snow doesn't melt and refreeze at the roof's edge. Try to keep the temperature in the attic close to the outside temperature.
Watch for snow accumulation on the leeward (downwind) side of a higher level roof where snow will collect. Most roofs are designed to bear the load of the heaviest snow. For safe removal of the snow, contact a roofing contractor. An icy roof is extremely dangerous.
Heavy snow accumulation can also cause some serious problems. Be sure to remove snow from basement stairwells, window wells and all walls. Melting snow can lead to water damage.
If you do get water in your home from burst pipes or ice dams, turn off the electrical power until you find out from an expert if it's alright to turn it back on.
If you have a home mail box, remember to maintain it properly to continue to receive mail.
Be sure to contact our insurance agent for more tips on keeping your house safe this winter.
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text:
The 2007 Tucumcari Rattler Banquet will be at 6 p.m. on May 21 at the Tucumcari Convention Center. Tickets must be purchased in advance for the event which is being catered by Angel Catering.
Tickets are $10 per person. They are available at the Tucumcari High School attendance office, Tucumcari General Insurance office and Bob's Budget Pharmacy.


text:
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We have the experience to get you into the driver's seat of that new BMW which meets all your needs. A member of the Germain BMW of Naples sales team is ready to answer any questions you have. When you're ready, take a spin in a BMW 328i, BMW 528i, BMW 535i, or BMW X3. You can get started by visiting Germain BMW of Naples today.
Germain BMW near Fort Myers is known for excellent service and low prices. All team members at Germain BMW of Naples are BMW experts, here to make buying your new car as easy as possible. Plus, we have an excellent service department to help you with all of your auto repair needs. Germain BMW of Naples is just a short drive from Fort Myers & Cape Coral! Visit us today at 11286 Tamiami Trail, or call us at (888) 639-8403.New BMW | Used Cars | Specials


text:
http://www.peacecorpswiki.org/Diversity_and_cross-cultural_issues_in_Costa_Rica?title=Diversity_and_cross-cultural_issues_in_Costa_Rica&feed=atom&action=history Diversity and cross-cultural issues in Costa Rica - Revision history 2016-12-10T22:32:12Z Revision history for this page on the wiki MediaWiki 1.27.1 http://www.peacecorpswiki.org/index.php?title=Diversity_and_cross-cultural_issues_in_Costa_Rica&diff=71&oldid=prev PCWAdmin: 1 revision imported 2016-08-23T19:02:30Z
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Possible Issues for Volunteers of Color

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{{Diversity_and_cross-cultural_issues_by_country}}
 In fulfilling the Peace Corps' mandate to share the face of America with our host countries, we are making special efforts to see that all of America's richness is reflected in the Volunteer corps. More Americans of color are serving in today's Peace Corps than at any time in recent years. Differences in race, ethnic background, age, religion, and sexual orientation are expected and welcomed among our Volunteers. Part of the Peace Corps' mission is to help dispel any notion that Americans are all of one origin or race and to establish that each of us is as thoroughly American as the other despite our many differences.

 Our diversity helps us accomplish that goal. In other ways, however, our diversity poses challenges. In Costa Rica, as in other Peace Corps host countries, Volunteers' behavior, lifestyle, background, and beliefs are judged in a cultural context very different from their own. Certain personal perspectives or characteristics commonly accepted in the United States may be quite uncommon, unacceptable, or even repressed in Costa Rica.

 Outside of Costa Rica's capital, residents of rural communities have had relatively little direct exposure to other cultures, races, religions, and lifestyles. What people view as typical American behavior or norms may be a misconception, such as the belief that all Americans are rich and have blond hair and blue eyes. The people of Costa Rica are justly known for their generous hospitality to foreigners; however, members of the community in which you will live may display a range of reactions to cultural differences that you present.

 To ease the transition and adapt to life in Costa Rica, you may need to make some temporary, yet fundamental compromises in how you present yourself as an American and as an individual. For example, female trainees and Volunteers may not be able to exercise the independence available to them in the United States; political discussions need to be handled with great care; and some of your personal beliefs may best remain undisclosed. You will need to develop techniques and personal strategies for coping with these and other limitations. The Peace Corps staff will lead diversity and sensitivity discussions during your pre-service training and will be on call to provide support, but the challenge ultimately will be your own.

 ===Overview of Diversity in Costa Rica===

 ===What Might a Volunteer Face? ===

 ====Possible Issues for Female Volunteers====

 Costa Rican society can be considered very macho. Some men hiss or make inappropriate comments to any woman (foreigner or local) who walks by, which can be frustrating.

 Many women deal with this issue by completely ignoring the comments; others continue to be bothered by them for their entire two years. In the workplace, it can be difficult to know when a comment is culturally acceptable and when it constitutes harassment. It is safe to say that most women never accept the catcalls and sexual harassment; rather, they develop a degree of tolerance with which they can function effectively.

 Other issues relate to the gender roles that exist in host families. Female Volunteers may experience discomfort at seeing females in the family having the primary responsibility for household chores (i.e., child care, cleaning, and cooking). In addition, many female Volunteers find it difficult to maintain friendships with Costa Rican males because of the assumption that there is always a sexual undertone in any male-female relationship. They may even have a hard time developing close friendships with Costa Rican women of their own age because many local women in their 20s are already married with children.

 The Costa Rican culture generally does not allow women to exercise the freedoms to which North American women are accustomed. Female Volunteers may therefore find it frustrating to live in a country that on some levels is very egalitarian, yet on other levels is very limiting. While some Costa Rican women occupy top government positions, traditional roles for women prevail. Costa Rican men, in contrast, are expected to be strong and to smoke, drink, and pursue women regardless of their marital status. Volunteers, especially women, are often bothered by the machismo aspect of Costa Rican culture. There have been incidents in which female Volunteers have been touched or groped on the street or on buses. American women are obvious targets because they are so visible and have a reputation of being sexually liberal.

 ====Possible Issues for Volunteers of Color====

 The majority of the tourists who visit Costa Rica are white. Consequently, host country nationals tend to think that all North Americans are white, and they sometimes mistake non-Caucasian Volunteers for being something other than Americans. For instance, African Americans or Hispanic Americans may be thought to be from Costa Rica or other Latin American countries. Similarly, Volunteers of Asian decent are often considered Chinese regardless of their true origin.

 Volunteers of color have different reactions to this situation, depending on their level of sensitivity and their geographical location in the country. For example, a light-skinned African American blended into Costa Rican culture without any problems and found this to be helpful when buying goods at the market. People assumed that she was a local, not an American, so she was not charged inflated prices. However, another Volunteer with much darker skin was frustrated by the prejudice against people with darker skin in some areas of the country.

 African-American Volunteers may be assumed to be from the Caribbean area of the country and ascribed attributes of that subculture. They may be called negro (black), the local word commonly used to describe black people, whether used in a derogatory way or as a term of endearment. They may be evaluated as less professionally competent than white Volunteers. They may be one of the few minority members within the program and thus work and live with individuals who have no understanding of African-American cultures and cannot provide adequate support. Finally, they may have difficulty finding certain beauty products found in the United States.

 Hispanic-American Volunteers may not be perceived as being North American. They may be expected to speak Spanish fluently because of a Hispanic surname. They may be considered Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans or Mexicans and ascribed stereotypical attributes of those cultures. Costa Ricans may assume that Hispanic Americans understand the culture and language and thus expect them to interact socially with more ease.

 Asian-American Volunteers may be identified by their cultural heritage, not by their American citizenship. They may be assumed to be experts in kung fu. They may be perceived in a certain way based on Costa Rica's current or historical involvement with Asian countries or the increased presence of Asian businessmen in the community as bar, restaurant, and shop owners.

 ====Possible Issues for Senior Volunteers====

 More than younger Volunteers, seniors may have challenges in maintaining lifelong friendships and dealing with financial matters from afar. They may want to consider assigning power of attorney to someone.

 A senior may be the only older person in a group of Volunteers and initially may not feel part of the group. Seniors may not be inclined to participate fully in certain activities to "give the young folks their turn." They may be reluctant to share personal, sexual, or health concerns with Peace Corps staff or other Volunteers. Younger Volunteers may look to an older Volunteer for advice and support; some seniors find this to be an enjoyable experience, while others choose not to fill this role. Some seniors may find it difficult to adapt to a lack of structure and clarity in their role after having worked for many years in a very structured and demanding job.

 Some senior trainees find the intensity of training quite tiring. Others experience a lack of attention to their particular language learning needs and may need to be assertive in developing an effective individual approach.

 ====Possible Issues for Gay, Lesbian, or Bisexual Volunteers====

 Homosexuality is generally considered immoral in Costa Rican society, so few gay, lesbian, or bisexual Volunteers choose to be open about their sexual orientation during service. Because of local views about homosexuality, it is wise to be discreet and to know your community well before disclosing your sexual orientation.

 The presence of homosexuals and bisexuals is certainly recognized in Costa Rica, but hardly with the same level of acceptance as in the United States. Styles of hair and clothes, earrings on men, and certain mannerisms that are accepted in the United States may be viewed with disdain or suspicion in your community. It is likely that most Costa Rican homosexuals have migrated to larger cities. Relationships with local people can happen, but as with all cross-cultural relationships, they may not be easy. Civil liberties are sometimes ignored, and you may be hassled in bars or on the street. Lesbians have to deal with constant questions about boyfriends, marriage, and sex (as do all women). Wearing an "engagement ring" may help. Gay men must deal with machismo: talk of conquests, girl watching, and dirty jokes.

 ====Possible Religious Issues for Volunteers====

 Costa Rica is a largely Roman Catholic country, and the church plays an important role in the political debate of the country and in the society's moral beliefs. There is not the separation of church and state that exists in the United States. Some Costa Ricans you meet may not know much about or may have misconceptions about other religions. However, there are congregations of other religions in Costa Rica (e.g., Baptist, Methodist, Jewish, and Jehovah's Witnesses).

 ====Possible Issues for Volunteers With Disabilities====

 The infrastructure in Costa Rica does not make many accommodations for people with physical disabilities. Most communities do not even have sidewalks, and very few have ramps. In addition, Costa Ricans sometimes give nicknames to people based on their physical characteristics, including disabilities, and you may experience prejudice or jokes about your disability. Depending on your disability, there may be few local resources to turn to for support.

 That being said, as part of the medical clearance process, the Peace Corps Office of Medical Services determined that you were physically and emotionally capable, with or without reasonable accommodation, to perform a full tour of Volunteer service in Costa Rica without unreasonable risk of harm to yourself or interruption of your service. The Peace Corps/Costa Rica staff will work with disabled Volunteers to make reasonable accommodations for them in their training, housing, job sites, or in other areas to enable them to serve safely and effectively.

 [[Category:Costa Rica]]
 126.96.36.199


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Aheeva offers a complete range of professional services to back you in delivering your contact center projects. Our experts in technology and in project management can assist you with the following:
Aheeva also offers a continual improvement program. This program allows you to make sure that your teams' skills are up- to-date and that you make optimal use of the AheevaCCS solution.
Our consultants will contact and guide you in your request
Obtain a quotation by filling out form
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The Aheeva teams are specialized in the creation of products and services for contact centers. AheevaCCS solution provides you with the most advanced features for your inbound and outbound campaigns as well as management and scripting. The AheevaCCS customers benefit from effective tools for agent supervision as well as the possibility to managing quality in real-time and remotely and to analyze performance through detailed reports. AheevaWFM and AheevaHR solutions are dedicated to facilitating the management of your human resources dealing with planning, recruitment or agent life cycle analysis. Aheeva also benefits from a worldwide network of partners thanks to a high quality partners program. Always concerned with offering you the best backing, Aheeva also developed a whole palette of Professional Services to cover integration, support and training. | Asterisk Contact Center


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We at Compassion are very, very proud of Patrick, a Leadership Development Program student in Uganda who recently refused a bribe that would have allowed a dangerous drug to be released to the public.
While Patrick was working as an intern at a pharmaceutical company, he was asked repeatedly to pass a drug that had harmful chemicals in it. In fact, Patrick was offered 10 million Ugandan shillings — enough for him and his family to buy land and a new house.
Patrick refused the bribe and told the company that he simply would not pass the bad drugs.
The pharmaceutical company destroyed the drug in question, and now thousands of Ugandans are safer due to Patrick's integrity and strength in Christ. Recognized for his leadership, Patrick was offered a promotion by the same company a week later.
Here is his story in his own words.
You can also view this Doing the Right Thing video on YouTube.


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July 23, 1998: The Hubble telescope has taken a "family portrait" of young, ultra-bright stars nested in their embryonic cloud of glowing gases. The celestial maternity ward, called N81, is located 200,000 light-years from Earth in the Small Magellanic Cloud, a small, irregular satellite galaxy of our Milky Way. These are probably the youngest massive stars ever seen in the magellanic cloud.
The nebula offers a unique opportunity for a close-up glimpse of the "firestorm" accompanying the birth of extremely massive stars, each blazing with the brilliance of 300,000 suns. Such galactic fireworks were much more common billions of years ago in the early universe, when most star formation took place.See the rest:
Credit: Mohammad Heydari-Malayeri (Paris Observatory, France), and NASA/ESA


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The family of Pomposa Lopez Rodriguez would like to thank everyone who prayed, sent flowers,donated money or brought food during the loss of our beloved mother.
A very special thanks to Eckols Funeral Home, Kenedy Police Dept., Floral Creations and Father Bergan. May God Bless each and everyone of you abundantly.
Cynthia Valderrama


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wednesdays storm
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On National HIV Testing Day, we must remember all messages about testing and prevention are not the same. Culture plays a major role in what motivates our behavior.
There are over a million African immigrants living in the United States today. While this group boasts a striking diversity in languages, traditions and experiences, there is one common experience that highlights a fairly universal challenge - adapting to the U.S. health care system and the stark reality that their own beliefs and American medicine are frequently at odds with each other.
Many African cultures have a holistic view of life and believe that life is a journey that each person takes. This journey is marked by different stages or phases, including birth, childhood, puberty (adolescence), youth, adulthood, old age and death. Through cultural norms and practices, society ensures that individuals understand their roles in their journey from stage to stage. Why is this important to awareness about HIV testing and prevention?
Folk religion and cultural practices, including belief in gods and ancestral spirits, is central to many African belief systems. Despite the spread of formal health care systems, some Africans, including those in the Diaspora, often bypass these systems for traditional providers - such as herbalists and priests - for a number of reasons. The traditional healers tend to be closer to the culture of the Africans patients, and this fosters a strong relationship between the patient and the healer.
Within the African religious system, diseases are thought to be caused by supernatural forces. For some Africans, diseases such as HIV/AIDS are believed to be punishment from a "higher being" and as such, they may not want to seek medical intervention. And for some Africans the textbook distinctions between "religion" and "medicine" are not relevant. For example, religious practices, including the use of amulets and visits to shrines, dominate the practice of folk medicine. It is therefore not uncommon to see Africans express views on health, illness and mortality in a spiritual rather than a medical way. As a result of this, Africans tend to be suspicious of western medicine. When it comes to HIV testing, some even believe that there is something sinister about blood draws, claiming, "they want to do something with my blood."
For clinicians, it's important to understand how this translates to behaviors - from reluctance to seek care to failure to adhere to prescribed treatments. In my work with organizations like the Adventist HealthCare Center on Health Disparities , we have observed that clinicians will likely get more history from an African patient through an informal conversation than by going down a checklist during the first visit, as storytelling is huge part of African cultures. Additionally, it helps if clinicians ask probing questions during the conversation show they care about the client not only the disease.
Culture and language influence attitudes and shape behaviors around health, healing and wellness. Both the provider and the patient bring their individual learned patterns of language and culture to the health care experience. To achieve equal access to quality health care for all, we must learn to transcend these disparate experiences and strengthen communication between patient and provider.
The Office of Minority Health Resource Center provides free resources, including cultural competency training, for providers working with African immigrant communities. For more information, please contact Margaret Korto at email@example.com.
Read more about African immigrant health issues at http://minorityhealth.tumblr.com/
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Mrs. Margaret Korto is a Health Education and a Senior Program Analyst at the Office of Minority Health Resource Center. She received her B.S. in Business Administration and Health Management with a minor in Paralegal Studies from University of Maryland and earned a Master in Business Administration and Healthcare Administration. Mrs. Korto is a native of Ghana and a proud mother of two.


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Mass Graves Discovered at Marineland
A newspaper exposé has led to an investigation by Ontario's Environment Ministry into four mass animal graves at the province's Marineland theme park. According to a former park employee, the graves contain the bodies of more than 1,000 animals, including orcas, dolphins, seals, walruses, bears, bison, and deer.
Former marine-mammal trainer Phil Demers described one particularly gruesome incident to a reporter from the Toronto Star. After an orca named Kandu died in December 2005, he was buried on the park's grounds. But staffers failed to obtain brain tissue samples during the whale's necropsy, so Demers and another trainer were assigned the macabre task of exhuming Kandu's body two weeks later.
"He was not frozen and it smelled so bad and there was blood all over the place," says Demers. "I was elbow deep in the pit in a reddish orangey sludge and we both kept coming up to vomit. It was gross."
Graveyard of Niagara Falls
The graves may be illegal, since Ontario requires waste permits to dispose of animal corpses and the park apparently had no such permits. Government officials are also concerned about possible contamination of the water and soil, especially because of the graves' close proximity to the Welland River, which feeds nearby Niagara Falls.
PETA has been campaigning against Marineland for years, citing the park's abysmal conditions and the high mortality rate among young whales and dolphins. The park also has a long history of obtaining wild-caught beluga whales, dolphins, and orcas, including Keiko, aka "Willy" from the movie Free Willy, whom Marineland sold to an even more depressing park in Mexico, where he languished for years before being rescued and rehabilitated. This summer, Demers and seven other former trainers came forward to report numerous instances of neglect and abuse, including serious damage to animals' skin and eyes because of filthy, tainted water.
Alarmingly, Ontario is Canada's only province that does not regulate the keeping and displaying of exotic animals or conduct public-safety inspections. Parks like Marineland are allowed to "police" themselves, and Marineland's mass graves are silent testimony to how good—or bad—of a job it's doing.
You Can Help
Refuse to patronize any marine park, including SeaWorld, which also has a tragic track record. Please voice your objections about the lack of adequate captive-animal protection laws in Ontario to Premier Kathleen Wynne:
Kathleen Wynne, Premier
Legislative Building
Queen's Park
Toronto ON M7A 1A1
E-mail: [email protected]
Phone: 416-325-1941
Commenting is closed.
I will never step foot in a place like this again…and will teach my children that these animals should remain in the wild with their families!! I was horrified at the conditions… And even more horrified after the documentary Blackfish! It is so horrific how terribly these animals are treated…. No living thing deserves this ABUSE….these people should be ashamed of themselves.
I will never go there should never be that many animals in captivity they should all be shut down
This is absolutly discusting. They should not get away with treating their animals like objects and taking them as they please. This needs to stop.
People just decide to pretend being innocents, it's easier to say "I didn't know". It doesn't matter if they are treated well or not, the point is that no animal should ever be exposed or encaged just to please human's macabre nature.
does sea world treat their animals like this? if so i am never going there again!
Unfortunately this is not news to me, for years I have been watching the tragedies unfold at several Marine life parks across the world. Its heart breaking to hear about and that's why I think many tend to ignore it, and it does have a lot to do with money unfortunately. You can try to tell people about the horrors that happen even at slaughter houses and its easier to ignore whats happening then to actually do anything about it.
its sad that these animal parks like 'MarineLand' can have animals on display like objects, and then 'disposed' of when theyr not being cared for properly.. What is the point in these parks?!? If people knew how they were reeeeeaalllyyy treated and the harm it causes these unique, beautiful marine animals im sure there would NOT be as many of this STUPID parks open for show!! Makes me sick!! People need to know about the cruelty before they pay money to contributing to keeping these places running!
I wouldnt dream of going to a marine "life" place like marine land….
this is horrible. all the so called "entertainment" places that use captured sea life should be closed. i can see an aquarium (as in the Steinhart in Monterey, CA.) where the fish are truly cared for and not made to "entertain). I can see this as educational and also if used to save a breed that's emperiled – but I know those folks are true to their work (I've been there and have also asked them for help for an issue I had once w/ starfish). I'm surprised that anyone is worried about graves as we all go back into the earth if we don't insist on being buried in a stupid, expensive casket….cremation would be nice tho' for them….I bury all my animals in the backyard and my well hasn't gotten poisoned!!
Not that I am for what Marineland has done and the way they treat their animals is not right. If you do go there, there is no way to tell that these animals are sick. All the animals on display do not look sick, so it is hard to see what all these people are talking about when you do go there. Or I should say except for the deer and bears. But Marineland brings in A LOT of money for Niagara Falls, so the the chance of it getting shut down is looking pretty slim. You can protest and protest but it all comes down to the money in the end.
U guys should be shut down for good!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yous should be ashamed!!!!!!!!!!!!
FYI, McGuinty resigned, so someone else will be in charge in…Feb…March…whenever they feel like it it seems. Really hoping this finally brings Marineland and John Holer down Al Capone-style, since our efforts with the animals and our government so far has been futile…
Thanks for telling me this I am 10 years old and are a part of peta I think there should be a ban on keeping mirine life in places like mirine land and sea world I love what your tring to do.
I simply can not believe that Marine land should be operational after such blatant disregard for life in general and the laws of our province. Keep in mind that your actions in regard to this incident along with many others will make a statement. I urge you to make the right statement and do what you know is right. I beg you to act because this is your responsibility as our Premier. Act on our behalf and stop the brutality please. I look forward to learning you have responded to this cruelty. Thank you Respectfully yours; Savanna
i'm totally schock about it, please stop this!
This is a dispicable crime against poor defenceless animals! They have been captured from their natural environment and enslaved in horrific conditions, has any thought gone into how these beautiful creatures must feel? the people involved in this treatment are selfish and cruel,and they have no right to steal these animals against their will,and make them perform everyday,to people who know no better and who are ignorant!
I'll never go to Seaworld or any place where animals are captive.
While people recorrently go to see the shows of those poor animals that are displayed for amusement this will not stop. Animals have the right of life in freedom, in there natural enviroment.
Stop now!!basta ya de explotar y masacrar a estos animales!
Stop now!!basta ya de explotar y masacrar a estos animales!
Are these natural parks or holocaust sites; what a shame for Canada! Take care of your animals and protect them, this is their right.
shame on you for the mass graves, you need to shut down. Very disrespectful. Your horrible treatment of these animals is what caustes their deaths and now you are trying to bury the secrets. Unacceptable…..
Absolutely disgusting. Horrifying that these so called human beings, can and are allowing this barbaric treatment of these wonderful mammals. Somebody needs to deal with these issues ASAP and close the place down.
It needs to be shut down. Forever.
Dear Sir It always surprises me how people of your prominence and power are so reluctant to make effortless and random acts of kindness. You could stop Seaworlds cruelty. You could make the wold a little better by doing this. Yet..? I wonder what happens on the way up to change people so or maybe they succeed because they never cared. But this I do know every litle effort made, every little kindness done , makes a difference. Please stop this. barbara
you are soooo sick!!!!


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Four hours is a lot of time to spend in Lars von Trier's head.
The second half of the polarizing director's sexual magnum opus "Nymphomaniac" arrives at the Gateway this week, completing his look into the life of a self-diagnosed nymphomaniac named Joe (Charlotte Gainsbourg).
"Nymphomaniac: Vol. II" focuses primarily on the later years as Joe's life decisions are increasingly dictated by her sexual appetites.
If you missed the first part, yeah, you're going to want to see that first. (It's available now on-demand.) Things pick up right where they left off — namely with a younger Joe (Stacy Martin) still in a relationship with Jerome (Shia LaBeouf) when she suddenly finds she's lost all sexual sensation. File "I can't feel anything!" under "things no one wants to hear in bed."
As Joe continues to recount stories from her past to kindly (?) stranger Seligman (Stellan Skarsgard), her life becomes a tale that's out of the frying pan and into the other frying pan. From a language-barrier threesome with two African immigrants to an appointment in S&M with an unassuming man with a schedule full of women (Jamie Bell), Joe's search for a return to sexual satisfaction seems endless.
As the full breadth of von Trier's film comes into focus, so do the successes and failures of "Nymphomaniac." And as exhausting as this might be, I think I'd like to see the full film in one piece. As an anthology of vignettes, it can be uneven, but it's also often hypnotic, another journey into that bleak world von Trier operates in.
While "Nymphomaniac" is graphic, it is rarely "sexy" — unless you are into the stuff Joe is exploring. It's closer to a story of a self-loathing addict whose search for satisfaction takes her into darker places.
Gainsbourg seems at ease in the gauntlet that von Trier is notorious for putting his actresses through. She's the line running through this "Depression trilogy" ("Melancholia," "Antichrist"). You can say many things about this performance, but you can't say it isn't bold.
The same goes for the film. And I recommend you see it for yourself and plan to discuss it after.
Photo courtesy of Magnolia Pictures


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Hunt 1520: General season Buck deer
Plateau, Thousand Lakes
Season dates
8-16-2014 to 9-12-2014
Type: General season
Species: Buck deer
Weapon: Archery
Plateau, Thousand Lakes
DescriptionSevier and Wayne counties�Boundary begins at SR-24 and SR-72; east on SR-24 to the Caineville Wash road; north along this road to the Cathedral Valley road; west on this road to Rock Springs Bench and the Last Chance Desert road; north on this road to the Blue Flats road; north and east on this road to the Willow Springs road; north on this road towards Windy Peak and the Windy Peak road; west on this road to SR-72; south on SR-72 to SR-24. USGS 1:100,000 Maps: Loa, Salina. Boundary questions? Call the Cedar City office, 435-865-6100. This map is provided for general reference only and does not constitute a legal hunt boundary. The Division does not guarantee access to any private or public land. Hunt unit boundaries may include private property or other excluded areas.


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This issue may be the most difficult "modern-day" set of cards to complete in any sport! With fragile borders that chip quite easily, this is a virtually impossible set to complete in high PSA grade (to date, only 29 cards have graded PSA 9). Like its Bowman counterpart, this issue is flush with "rookie cards," most notably Sammy Baugh, Sid Luckman (card # 1), Chuck Bednarick, and Bobby Layne. This set also features a high numbers run which is very scarce, regardless of grade.
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Are there any teachers out there starting work in September? I'm looking for some encouragement, sympathy, empathy, etc!
I start teaching first grade in September and will have a 7 week old and a toddler at daycare. YIKES!
I'm stressing already. I'd love to hear how all you teachers are coping / will cope.
Also, interested in hearing pumping stories. I'm not sure I'll be able to pump for my lo this year.


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#187227 - 10/10/09 03:50 PM Re: that long and winding road... [Re: LukeJavan8]
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5295
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
If only this organism would devour one of these organic letters.
Y to V > > DETRITIVORE
wasn't there once someone called wofaholicodoc?
This was started on 10/23/08 by coffeebean with the word 'brain'.
Could we in a last combined effort bring it back to a five letter word before or on the 23 and blow it to kingdom come?
Edited by BranShea (10/10/09 04:02 PM)
#187229 - 10/10/09 09:18 PM Re: that long and winding road... [Re: BranShea]
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 11613
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Ooh, that would be...fitting. A thread that lasted exactly a year! Amazing.
Ok--I won't even try to put which, or how many, letters were saved/lost/changed, but I'll go with
It's gotta be shorter!
#187234 - 10/11/09 02:59 PM Re: that long and winding road... [Re: Jackie]
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5295
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
We call it wielding a blunt ax, but your action seems to be....fitting.
#187237 - 10/11/09 03:51 PM Re: that long and winding road... [Re: Jackie]
old hand
Registered: 12/18/06
Posts: 956
Loc: Auckland, New Zealand
I shall hasten the cause. If we all swim down we can escape this net.
Drop an E--> DIVERTER
#187252 - 10/12/09 12:22 PM drop an R [Re: olly]
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 6943
Loc: Worcester, MA
It's been a while since I contributed but now that we've come so far my attention is
#187255 - 10/12/09 01:47 PM Drop an E... [Re: wofahulicodoc]
old hand
Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 876
Loc: western NY
...and perhaps we might DIVERT it?
#187257 - 10/12/09 02:39 PM drop the V [Re: twosleepy]
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 6943
Loc: Worcester, MA
At least I TRIED.
It's getting ahead of ourselves, since the 23rd isn't until eleven days from now, but it would be fitting to come back to BRAIN at one year, with Coffeebean doing the honors. (Can we refrain from doing it immediately?!)
And unless people are truly getting tired of this, there's no reason to end it at one year. We might however learn a lesson: too many letters gives too few choices, and too little room to maneuver, and can spoil the game.
#187258 - 10/12/09 04:23 PM Re: drop the V [Re: wofahulicodoc]
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 8541
Loc: Land of the Flat Water
----please, draw me a sheep----
#187263 - 10/12/09 06:08 PM Re: drop the V [Re: LukeJavan8]
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5295
Loc: Netherlands, the Hague
We could keep it in the fridge on five for a while: F to A AIRED
#187267 - 10/12/09 07:00 PM Y --> I [Re: BranShea]
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 6943
Loc: Worcester, MA
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Office of Aboriginal Initiatives
WATERLOO CAMPUS: Interactive Métis craft making and teachings: The Octopus bag
Aboriginal Awareness Week 2013 - Waterloo campus
Mar 4/13
Date: Mar 4/13
Time: 14:00
Location: Aboriginal Student Centre. 187 Albert Street, Waterloo campu
Cost: No Cost
The octopus bag, also known as the fire pouch, is another Metis crafts that incorporates both is First Nation and European heritage.
Come join us for our Aboriginal Awareness Week workshop on March 4th at the Aboriginal Student Centre and you'll be able to make one for yourself!
Come to learn how to make one and about the history and significant of the octopus bag.
The event is open to any skill level and you can choose between embroidery, beading, painting or a mixture to decorate your bag.
***To register contact Marie-Louise (firstname.lastname@example.com).
Contact: Melissa Ireland
Email: email@example.com
Phone: 519-884-1970 ext 4190
View all WLU events