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This one is hard to write.
As the Phillies now sit on the brink of elimination – the season truly hanging in the balance – there are several what-if's to look back on that occur throughout an at bat, a game, and even a series. There were many throughout this gut-wrenching Game 4 loss that now has the Phillies in a 3-1 series hole.
What if Brad Lidge throws Johnny Damon a 3-2 slider after two consecutive foul balls on fastballs? What if Lidge or Carlos Ruiz cover third as the rest of the Phils infield was in a shift? What if – before this game even starts – Charlie Manuel tabs Cliff Lee to start this game?
All of those what-ifs are completely moot as the Yankees demolished any sort of hope the Phillies had of regaining momentum in this series by winning 7-4.
In the eighth inning, with the Phillies trailing 4-3, Pedro Feliz gave hope that this would again be the series everyone thought before it began by hitting a solo home run off of Joba Chamberlain. With a tie game going into the ninth, and spirits high, the old Brad Lidge struck again.
Damon would come to the plate in that ninth inning following two quick outs; a pop out by Hideki Matsui and a strikeout by Derek Jeter. Lidge found himself up in the count 1-2, but Damon waited out two pitches that were overthrown by the Phils closer, and the count was 3-2. The Yankees left fielder then fouled off two pitches into the seats before finally catching up to a 94-m.p.h. four-seamer that dropped into left for a base hit.
Mark Teixeira came to the plate, and the shift was on for the Phillies defense. Damon capitalized by stealing second base, then taking third after Lidge and Ruiz failed to cover the base. Teixiera reached base after being plunked by Lidge and Alex Rodriguez stepped up in a most crucial position.
Rodriguez jumped on an 0-1 fastball and bounced it off the left field fence to score Damon. The Feliz home run became a distant memory.
Jorge Posada followed that up with a two-run single of his own, and was thrown out at second base, although the damage was more than evident. The Yankees took a 7-4 lead, and just like that, there was no air left to breathe.
The greatest closer of all-time, Mariano Rivera, came in to finish things off in the ninth inning as he has done so many times before. Three straight putouts by Teixeira at first base ended things for the Phillies late on Sunday night, and possibly for the 2009 season.
Lost in the crushing defeat was the ballsy effort put forth by Joe Blanton. Big Joe went six innings, giving up four earned runs while striking out seven batters. He was not unhittable by any means, however, he kept them in the game, which is all you could ask for. Chase Utley continued his domination of CC Sabathia, but in the end his solo home run was not enough.
Lidge's meltdown is another perplexing reminder of just how quickly things can go south. One day ago, we saw the same sort of disintegration from Cole Hamles. The two darlings of the 2008 postseason have proven to be two of the Phillies Achillies Heels this year.
It's not over, but it sure is close. The Phillies pride themselves on being a resilient club, but games like these are daggers. Do they have a three-game winning streak left in them? The comeback begins tonight at 7:57.
343 Comments
Stay away from ledges and sharp objects tonight.
I promised myself when Jimmy got the 2 out hit in the NLCS, that I would never get angry at the team itself for their performances in the World Series. This was a tough one but we showed heart today… they really rallied back.
I just don't know what to say about Brad Lidge.
How can Manual sit his fat @ss in the dugout after Damon is on 3rd. Get the hell out there and call everybody down and get tex out. Every 2 seconds posada is out at the mound. The phils are too busy watching the series instead of playing.
This only proves Brad needs to go. Bad move to give him a big contract but we need to bite the bullet on this one. He struggled for a couple years before last year. Then back to his bad self this year, and couldve blown the world series for us. we get out of that inning, go into the bottom half with momentum and not against mariano.
Brad Lidge looked amazing UNTIL f*cking Damon managed to get on base. He was virtually unhittable.
No words can describe how sad we all feel. This game just zapped the last bit of hope I had left. No freaking way we win the next three… or can we?
Very tough loss to swallow. This one will hurt for a while. For what it's worth (and I'm sure I will be crucified for saying this) I thought Lidge actually had pretty good stuff tonight. I don't know why he went away from throwing sliders to Damon, as he almost struck him out on one and had him off balance on the others he threw. But he made two really bad pitches after that – one that hit Texeira and the other fastball over the heart of the plate to ARod. Those broke the team's back.
good things:
1 – got to hand it to charlie – his bet of going with blanton almost paid off – amazing
2 – lidge looked very good for 2.66 batters!
3 – we're prob the second most talented team in baseball – yanks are most talented – but we can see what we have to do in off season and what we need to work on – 1 more ace (a #2) since cole no longer reliable (a #3/4) – bull pen – closer – working counts – consistency – small ball!
other points:
1 – sad as it is to say – howards the primary reason we're in this whole – he got us here for sure – but his cold streak now is the difference – if he was still in stride the series would be even at worst!
2 – notwithstanding that we tied game in 8th, i still think charlie played it wrong by pitching big joe – who did great tonight! – our backs were against the wall and we needed lee 2 times in order to win 3 of 4 from this very good yankee team
You have Hamels who's more interested in ending his season than winning anything and hitters whiffing left and right…this doesn't look anything remotely like a World Series championship team.
This is about as uphill as it gets though…gotta win the next three, two of which are gonna be on the road and against some serious pitching.
It's really a shame too, because if we end up losing, I personally can't help but think this loss cheapens the '08 win since we did it against the Rays and couldn't pull it out against a real team in '09. I know I sound like a Yankee fan right now, but it's the truth.
Mark Tex. & A-Rod have a combined .090 batting average, yet they have been involved in almost all the game winning plays. World Series veterans Jeter and Damon are the true table setters in this series. Why would jimmy Predict Phillies in 5?…there's a reason the Yankees are going to win their 27th ring tomorrow… goodnight Philly, … Thanks for the amazing memories
Bad decision for Lidge to abandon his sinker as he cannot control or locate his fast ball. Was it Ruiz's decision for Lidge to go to the fast balls?
First congrats to the yankees on thier 27th championship. they are truly the better team. any team that trots out coleChambles is going to find it hard to win a short series. I guess cole is happy its really over now.
I think the phils could have over came either lidge sucking or chambles. they could not overcome both being terrible.
why is ibanez in against lefties at this point with Fransisco sitting on the bench?
anyway great to win back to back pennants and win 1 world series.
the better team won. we need to come to grips with that. We need a front line starter to go with Lee next year and a closer.
BL looked scared after hitting Tex…
s/have put Durbin in – he had gotten a-roid out before…
good yr but, I Think the phils have met their match…
the difference in this series is the lead off hitters…jeter is a true lead off hitter,rollins is not…rollins is always looking to pull the bal and hit home runs while jeter is just looking to get on base…sorry but rollins should be moved down in the order he sucks leading off.
I am disappointed in tonight and this series, but it does not cheapen last year one bit.
A couple of things:
At the opening announcements, Hamels was booed – I thought that pretty amazing.
The Phils could have easily gotten to CC, they had men on base but were not able to score them. Point, both Rollins and Vic got on base (a rare feat in this series) but did not budge as our top money players fizzled at the challenge. That was not the only time we left men on base in key situations.
I do not remember seeing the Phils play so uptight on defense, especially Utley – he stopped a ground ball from entering center field but his normally amazing glove hand toss to Jimmy went straight up in the air – no error as the stop itself was a show.
The Yanks did to the Phils what we are used to seeing the Phils do to everyone else. Men on base, especially in key situations, scored. Whenever the Phils came close or tied the game, the Yanks answered. Pretty depressing to be on the other end of that display.
Credit to Johnny Damon for a great at bat. I thought Lidge had him struck out on that one nasty slider with two strikes, but he just got a piece. Damon really won that game.
Charlie deserves some criticism for putting the shift on with no one covering third.
Lidge obviously is a goat, though he was throwing well for an 11-day layoff. At first anyway. SHould have thrown sliders to A-rod, even with the risk of a wild pitch. I mean, it's pick your poison, and Chooch is the best at blocking the balls in your dirt. I'd rather lose on Lidge's best pitch and not fastballs to A-rod.
And I'll say this: It doesn't look good right now, obviously.
But it AIN'T over.
The Yanks pitching has just been better the past three games. But I like the next two matchups.
I'm not giving up on this team.
Come on guys, it isn't over yet. Still got a couple more games left. Lee can handle the lineup tomorrow, then we head up to Yankees Stadium. This team prides itself on its resiliency, and now that their backs are truly up against the wall, lets see what the team is really made of. Its not over guys. Keep the Phaith.
What's the matter with you Phillie fans ? Haven't you ever heard that famous Yogi Berra quotation ? ("It aint over till it's over").
Sure, down 3-1 against the Yankees is tough, but if you're truly the World champs, you can fight back and win it.
Last season, my Tampa Bay Rays (when they were playing well) got swept by the Yankees and Red Sox. Later in the season, they came back and swept both those teams. The Rays also lost to the Phillies in June (2009) by a score of 10-1 in front of their home fans at the Trop. It felt devastating, BUT the Rays came back and beat the Phillies, the next 2 games, by a total score of 17-5. Gotta have faith.
Frankly, I'm glad the Yankees are kicking butt right now, because last year, after the Phillies won the World Series, their gentleman owner announced to the crowd "Let's hear a cheer for the Tampa Bay Rays".
Not one cheer was heard. Phillies fans must be the worst fans in all of baseball. Only sound was a few scattered boos. This was for a team that went from last place, the year before, with the worst record in baseball, to the top of the American League East, and into the World Series. The Rays earned a lot of respect just to be there, win or lose. They should have gotten a lot of cheers from the Phillies fans. In a way this is PAYBACK. But hey, remember. It ain't over.
To:Philly Gameday–How does this taint our win last season? The Yankees couldn't even beat Tampa Bay enough to win their DIVISION last year. So our championship was completely legit. Face it, this was everyone's nightmare: that Manuel would think Lidge was back (I never did) and let him blow a game that would blow the World Series. This is over now, pure and simple. There is NO way we are going to win 3 straight, especially in NYC. Now that the Yankees are this close to victory, they may take it here tomorrow night. Lordy, I hope not. There is a HUGE difference between losing a series in 5 games and losing a series in 6.
Probably too late now but Lee probably should have started this last game with Blanton pitching the 5th game. Ibanez 0 for 4 tonight with 3 Ks and 3 runners stranded. Batting .188 in the series and looking lost and frustrated. Manuel should have given Francisco a shot against the left handed pitchers in this series. Raul is not getting it done.
At least I'll save some money not buying another World Championship T-shirt and not paying train fare into Philly for the parade.
Rayfan: let go of your bitterness and move on. no one cares about you or tampa
Guys, it's not over yet. We've seen our Phils come back time and time again. Howard and Werth in game 4 of the NLDS. Jimmy in game 4 of the NLCS. This is where we get to see what the Fightin's are made of. We have Clifton going in game 5, and you have to love our chances there. Don't give up hope. This team is too good for us to give up on them.
raul should of been benched and francisco should of been in there to face the lefty cc…i would still bench raul for tomorrow game even.
it ain't over.
Our odds of winning are a lot lower, sure. And we need to play a lot better.
But I like our chances tomorrow night. I also like our chances against Pettitte on 3 -days rest, which he hasn't done in years. Especially if we throw Pedro.
If we send it to Game 7, anything can happen — especially if they start CC on 3 days' rest for a third straight time.
The Yanks pitching is great, but thin. And the longer the series goes, the thinner it gets.
I'm not saying it's likely. But we still have a chance.
I'm not giving up on this team.
The Phillies will win in 7 and repeat as champs
Its over. Who starts game 7 anyway happ?
I dont mind lidge maybe being a set up guy for a good closr next year. Hamels I would try to move while there is still some value there.
One big difference this World Series has been some bad luck and missed plays.
What was Chase doing trying to flip that grounder out of his glove for a double-play? If he gets the sure out at second, that would have saved a run.
Just look at the Yanks' two-run 5th:
1. Swisher Walk
2. Melky infield single (should have been force out/fielder's choice)
3. strike out
4. Jeter hits dead double play ball that just finds a hole between short and third
5. Damon pops it up for bloop single to right.
Two runs without a hard-hit ball.
Then the Phils come up in the 7th and Rollins and Shane both smoke balls right at Yankee fielders. Maybe it just wasn't our night.
You have to be a little lucky in the postseason to win a championship. And the Phils not getting as many breaks as last year.
But I'm still not giving up.
Keep hope alive!!!
"no one cares about you or tampa"
Sounds like you're the "bitter" one. As for the Rays, they are NOT "Tampa". They are Tampa Bay (They play in St, Petersburg, 40 miles from Tampa).
As for : "no one cares" about the Rays ? You will. Next year when we whip your butts again, 2 out of 3, just like last June. Yeah, we finished up pretty sloppy, but we'll be back.
I agree, it is not over till the someone wins 4 games not 3, and yes this loss hurts alot. But to get overf Lidge is stupid. Sometime you just have to tip your hat to the batter, Damon had a great at bat and got a hit.
I am not conceding anything yet, but you know what if they lose this is 6 or 7 games, I am not totally disappointed. You do not need to dismantle this team, a few tweeks, and just a better week by our three four and six hitters and things would be different. Raul is hurt, we know that know. But this team has won 3 consecitive NL East Titles, Two consecitive NL crowns. They are not terrible, if and this is a big if, the yankees can win their fourth game this year, it is not a disaster for this team. They have defended their title with heart and class. Lidge will be better next year, and really I know Cole has been a Prima donna this year but the guy is 25 years old and was king of Philadedlphia at 24 can we cut him some slack.
Back to back titles is still in our reach, and if not focus on 2 out of 3 and 3 out of 5. Can we not become the band wagoners that JRoll called us.
Win tomorrow, I will be there. Then go back to NY and see what happens. No matter what this team has given us a great ride, and is set to be contenders for the next 3 years.
Let us not diminish what this team has done this year on one two three or four bad games. I have driven over 6000 miles to see this team play this year back and forth from Vermont, and win or lose, I still love this team. And will have their back next year and the year after that and the year after that……….
I am a little buzzed after my drive to PA tonight to watch last nights game at the bar I hung out at as a kid, and will cheer this team tomorrow night like they deserve to be. And this PHILLIES team can win 3 in a row, one game at a time.
Philly Texan; good post and I agree with you. Things just are not breaking right for the Phils so far in this series outside of that first game.
We are still in it!! I still think we can go 7 games!
*throws rayfan a ball of yarn* here boy! go get it!
THIS SERIES IS NOT OVER. This Phillies team has battled back more times than any of us can count. There is no way they're gonna give up in this series. We have Cliff Lee pitching tomorrow, and after him we'll have Pedro, a veteran who knows how to get it done when it counts, going against an aging Pettite on short rest. If we get that far, Cholly should get Happ out there for a Game 7. He's mentally tough, and you know he's the kind of guy who can feed off the atmosphere in Yankee Stadium. He's everything Hamels isn't. But I'm getting way ahead of myself. If our offense shows up, then who knows what could happen against a thin Yankees staff. All their guys are going to be on short rest, but our starters will be fresh, and that could make all the difference. This team just needs to bear down and remember what got them here – solid pitching, clutch hitting, and that never-say-die attitude. But they're gonna need the fans to get behind them.
"The Phillies will win in 7 and repeat as champs"
LOL. wanna bet ?
Philly Texan totally agree – the Yankees runs in the fifth were cheap runs no solidly hit balls against Heavy B that inning. And the Phils could have done more damage against Sabathia in the 7th. Balls didn't bounce our way tonight. But it still really hurts.
Hey RayFan, did your team even make the playoffs this year? And didn't they trade their World Series Game 1 starter from last year? Face it, they were a one-hit wonder
Worst fielding play of the postseason…Scott Kazmir air-mailing the ball to first base after fielding a bunt. That throw almost hit the DirectTV blimp for christ's sake.
Mike- Can't forget about Iwamura making those two errors late in the series
I have to say dispite the few bandwagoners on here, it is nice to see some positivity here, It is always the few bad apples that never shut up. Really it has been 28 years between WS titles, and now we have gone back to back to the WS. Lets win one game tomorrow with Cliff on the mound and worry about Wednesday Wednesday.
Like I said before do not give up on Hamels for next year, or Lidge, because they will have something to prove that they did not get Lucky in 08. This team diserves our appreciation, they have earned it. GO CLIFF and GO PHILLIES
Love the positivity on here. Philadelphia is the greatest, and so are the Phillies. Let's go get 'em tomorrow and then worry about a 6th or 7th game..
I'll be a proud phan until the day I die. Go Fightins!!
I thought Boston fans were trashy, but Philly easily wins out.
p.s. Trash
Shag, I believe you 100%
Pitchers always have good seasons and bad seasons. Hamels will bounce back. Look at Verlander or Cliff Lee while he was with Cleveland.
Yeah, this is still a killer loss.
Especially after they twice came back from two runs down.
I would have loved to see the Phils go to the bottom of the 9th with the score tied.
I think we all knew that if Lidge could get through that inning scoreless, that Phils were going to win.
But ot giving up hope. I'll never give up on this team.
Let's get em tomorrow!
If we take the series back to New York, that'll be Petite on 3 days rest. credit to him for s getting thru those rough patches we didn't capitalize on but i can't see it happening twice…pedro might have another chance to quite the Yankees Fans. at this pointing i am hoping for a game seven. This 3 days rest thing could back fire…CC looked bad but our bats worse. Lidge is a different story. But playing a shift with 2 outs in the top of the nineth is on Manuel…that was dumb..so was Lidge working out of the strecth. Great play by Damon.
1. New York Yankees
2. Philadelphia Phillies
There is nothing there that says that one team is much better than the other. It is just a couple of close plays and close calls.
I thought we had turned a cornered with this streaky batting. Unfortuanately the Yankees have more firepower in the weaker parts of their line-up when things go South with the meat of their order. With Hamels having an off year i thought the only way to take this thing would be the with the bats. Things have go to turn around….so of tonight was just baseball though. we put some good swings and AB together but they just were hit to the fielders. tough breaks, a costly error and a some bad late inning management….ugh
Schmidt good point….it aint over yet but we need the offense and a game 7 pitcher. The one difference is we have steaky guys in some key spots and strike out too much. The Yankees have an offense that can cover for the those deficiencies. And Jeter really is phenominal in the post season. Jimmy were still waiting….Also Hamels having an off year is just bad timing…
Yeah but the Phillies aren't really playing terrible. No reason to bail out on the guys. They aren't really doing anything that stupid or totally losing it. Phils won Game 1 convincingly, the last 3 games were all close ballgames.
I know nobody wants to bring up the camera call again, but its just not the right call in a world series game like that. Before that play it was good baseball both teams going at each other and enjoying the competition from each other. After the camera call, players on both sides tightened up and looked tense. They were over aruguing calls and looking more and more towards the umps for reactions to their calls then playing the game. Posada was over argueing, Blanton hit A-Rod. The call created bad blood between the two teams that was not there before the call. Either way, the way Phillies fans complained they complained alot harder and had more reason to. If that ball was ruled a double and the call on the field stood, Yankee fans wouldn't really be complaining about the play because there is no reason to think they were being cheated. I mean the ball didn't clear the fence, it wasn't a 400 foot shot, it barely went 330. You don't make a call like that an overturn an original ruling like that. It creates bad blood between teams. Had the call been kept a double, players wouldn't be looking at the umps hard now like they are doing, they would just be playing the game.
In the 9th inning it sure looked like Jimmy Rollins had Mariano figured out when he popped up. What was this guy thinking, when after seeing Mo for two innings the other night he says" We saw something to night, we have him figured out". Excuse me after two innings, you've figured out the greatest reliever of all time? The reliever, who for 14 years has been the best at what he does. Same goes for Charlie Manuel's statement " My guys will hit Rivera, they can hit any closer"
I don't know, but it seems that Mo deserve some respect. What was Charlie trying to do convince his own players they can hit Mo. Well I gotta admit, it looks like Rollins might have gotten on prediction right,
this series maybe over in 5 games.
The camera call wasn't respectful to the Phillies fans, team, ballpark or organization. Here you have a team that is World Champions. To take the crown from the champs you have to beat them and earn it. Gifts aren't given to teams who go up against World Champions. Because the original call was overturned there were 10 times more complaints than if the call would have been kept a double.
Look at the facts of the series. Phillies were champs in 08, back in the WS for 09. From the first inning of Game 1, at no point were they behind in the series. They scored the first 6 runs of Game 1, and when the Yanks won Game 2, they pulled up even. Then the Phillies took a 3-0 lead.
There were 21 innings before the camera call. In all 21 of those innings the Phillies were either tied or ahead. In 0 of those 21 first innings were the Yankees ahead. In the 14 innings after the camera call, the Yankees were either tied or ahead. In 0 of the last 14 innings were the Phillies ahead at any point.
That is not a way to change momentum in a series. You don't make a call like that. You simply don't overturn a questionable call like that. Had the call been ruled a home run on the field it is one thing. If it was a clear home run that is another thing. Neither one happened and for a team that is World Champions in their ballpark to get it overturned its just cheap baseball honestly.
If you keep the original call its not that controversial. The Yankees weren't going to go crazy and say that was a home run taken away from A-Rod, it was too close to call. The Yankees would have just figured it didn't clear the wall so there isn't much to complain about.
If you overturn the original call there is a possibility the umps are being unfair to the Phillies because you are taking away a call from them and putting runs on the board.
Its not the right call for a world series game.
Excuse me Mike, so you don't think that a ball that was shown on the replay to have clearly hit the top edge of the camera above the fence should be called a home run? That caused bad blood? You've gotta be kidding. The Phillies management should have made sure those cameras were not overhanging the field.I suppose your also going to say that Howard caught Damen's sinking line drive the other night. If so why didn't Howard just run over to first to complete the double play, instead of almost throwing the ball into centerfield. I think Alex being plunked 3 times and Tex twice would cause more bad blood between the teams, than any calls made by the umpires. If the Philles pithers' control is so poor, then maybe they have no business trying to pitch inside. I can just imagine the uproar we'd here from Phillies fans if Howard was hit three times in two games.
Hey Mike thats why the rules were changed to review calls on home runs. You honestly think the Yankees would not be upset when the replay showed that the ball was really home run? If so I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
Mike I love your logic from a few postings earlier when you blame the whole shift in momentum on the correcting of the home run call and your detailed analysis of the number of innings the Phillies were in the lead. If you think that correcting a wrong call made around the middle of game three has such a devastating effect on the Phillies, then maybe this year's Phillies just don't have what in takes to repeat as champions.
No the Yankees wouldn't be upset because like the Lakers, Celtics, & Steelers they are an elite franchise. They don't want to win on cheap calls.
People always say to be the best you have to beat the champs.
When you overule a call like that you aren't beating the champs you are overturning original calls made against them.
Nobody says to be the best you have to overturn original calls against the champs to take the lead.
The fact is the hitting and pitching stats in this series are fairly even.
Theoretically it should be a 2-2 series that is just for the game of baseball.
Right now the Yankees have a .235 batting average in the series and a 4.00 ERA, those are some of the worst numbers ever, if not the worst from a team that can win a championship.
For a franchise which has been the best in sports all-time its not an impressive way to win a world series.
It doesn't have a devastating effect on the Phillies, it has a devastating effect on the overall play from both teams. Players on both teams now are more testy and more reliant on waiting for the umps call, and fans on both teams are more about we hate you and hate your fans and team than before the call. Its not like CC threw a 3 hit shutout and Blanton got chased in the 3rd. Its not like the Yankees won back to back games 10-1 and 8-0. The games are fairly close, they are going into the 9th innings with both teams having their closers in.
I apreciate the discussion, but this isn't about complaining about which team is better or this and that. Its about baseball creating a better world series.
The Phillies look nervous now. The Yankees look nervous out there too. Neither team is playing thier best baseball. .235 Avg for the Yankees and .220 for the Philies and both teams have ERA over 4.00. Those aren't world championship numbers. The overuling created more controversy than an original ruling on the field. Do you think A-Rod and the Yankees, the best player ever almost and the best team ever want to hit shots into the upper deck, or balls that barely clear the fence? Obviously the Yankees want to win convincingly and play their best ball.
Look at the Celtics, they are an elite franchise like the Yankees. Probably the two best teams ever. Celtics won their last title by 39 points, they broke the record in a deciding finals game. Yanks are hitting .235 with a 4.00 ERA. Do you think the Celtics wanted to win on a squeaker or win by 39?
Neither team is playing great baseball because they are stressing out over possible controversies and "hating" the other team.
Mike in that post you state,"There were 21 innings before the camera call. In all 21 of those innings the Phillies were either tied or ahead. In 0 of those 21 first innings were the Yankees ahead." If that's so how did the Yankees win game 2 with a score of 3-1? I guess Matsui didn't really hit a home run in the 6th inning and Posada didn't get a pinch hit to drive in another run in the 7th. Must be a conspiracy between the Yankees, Major League baseball and the tv network. Come to think of it ,I guess the United States never really put men on the moon either.
Maniac that means ahead in the series. If you are up 1 game to 0, you aren't behind in the series until the series is tied 1-1 and you fall behind in game 3.
The 2007-08 Celtics were like that. At only 1 time in the entire season were they playing from behind. The only time was after the 1st half in Game 1 against the Lakers they were down 51-46 going into halftime. At every other point in the 2007-08 they were tied or ahead. They started 8-0 and were never trailing in any series by games.
.235 average in the WS so far for the Yankees. Only two world series champions ever batted less than that in the regular season the 1968 Tigers hit .235 and the 1906 White Sox hit .230, but that was in the regular season. I haven't found the WS champs batting averages yet, but I am assuming that .235 has to be in the Top 5 worst in baseball history.
I haven't found all the stats for ws champs in the world series yet, but I am assuming that out of the 26 titles Yankees have .235 and 4.00 has to be up their with their worst ws winning numbers ever.
Well here it is
"Since the playoff system started the team with the lowest batting average is "The Amazin' Mets" of 1969. They hit .242 as a team. "
Do you want the Yankees to get a record in futility. They are on pace to be the worst hitting ws champion of all-time. Even worse than the Amazin Mets and that wasn't the strenght of that Mets team anyway, it was Nolan, Seaver & Koosman.
Mike if the teams look like they're playing stressed , guess what it's not because of an umpires call, its because this is the world series and what's at stake. You talk as if this is the first time in world series history teams have gotten tight. Wrong, it happens alot when you have two teams that are evenly matched and they know that any play might be what makes or breaks a game and maybe the series. And please stop with the excuse that the home run barely cleared the fence. A home run is a home run whether it travels 300′ or 500′ they all count the same. What because the Philles are the reigning champs all Yankee home runs should have to travel at least 400′ for them to count. If you really think that the one changed call has so devastated the Phillies that they've lost all their momentum, well I guess you just don't think very much of your team. When Joba gave up that tying home run tonight did the Yankees sulk? No they came right back and broke the game open. I certainly don't think the Yankees are tight at all, they're a very loose bunch of guys who believe in each other and that they can come back when they have to.
Yanks are hitting .235 its #1 right now as the worst hitting team ever to win a ws.
The home run didn't clear the fence it hit the camera right at the top of the fence that was somewhat in the field of play. How much we don't know for sure. But when Joba gave up the HR to Feliz, Joba didn't strike out Feliz and then instant replay gives Feliz a HR, that is not how it happened, which is why the plays are different.
the one changed call hasn't devastated the Phillies that they've lost all their momentum, it changed the behavior of both teams after the overturned call.
Hey MIke the Yankees maybe batting .235 but the Phillies are only batting .220. Do you really want the Phillies to be known as thw team with the lowest batting average ever to win the series? I can look up stats to maybe you should check your teams batting average before you go knocking the other team's
I'm from NY, I like the Yankees too, I like the pie in the face after the walk offs, I celebrated recently with other NY fans after they beat the Angels. The Yankees are not a cheap team who wins on fluke calls. They win convincingly and sometimes big, they just aren't doing it this series.
I'm over this. In my opinion, the Phils have better pitching matchups for the next two games. If they stop playing tight and scared they can easily win them. Get the bats working. Charlie needs one of his patented closed door team meetings. Once you get to game 7 anything goes. LETS DO IT.
But if the Phillies win the WS they aren't going to bat .220 because they would have to win 3 more games, it is highly unlikely. It isn't a knock at another team. Its just a stat. If Yanks win 2-1 tomorrow, and get 5 hits they are going down in history as the worst hitting ws team ever. That isn't a knock on the team, its just a stat.
Mike open your eyes and come back to reality the camera was above the top of the fence stop your crying. That call did not make anybody change their behavior, as I said earlier, both teams are evenly matched and that's why these games are clsely played games. Are you really going to tell me you think the Phillies are by far the superior team. If so,
I repeat open your eyes and come back to reality. The Yankees had the best record in baseball.
Oh I see if the Yankees win tomorrow they're not going to improve their batting average, but if the Phillies win the next three games 2-1 they're going to greatly improve theirs. Hello, do you actualy read and understand the statements your making?
maniac everybody knows the camera was above the top of the fence and jutting out onto the field. It wasn't behind the fence it was in front of it.
I'm not saying the Phillies are by far superior whatsoever. I am saying as a fan of baseball this is a 6 or 7 game series so far based on how both teams are playing.
I said if the Yankees win and get 5 hits. That is only 1 game. Phililes aren't going to win 3 games in a row on just 5 hits each game. They may do it for 1 game, but stuff like that doesn't happen 3 times in a row.
Real champions don't play scared.
You keep making statements using sarcasm, insults, or heat of the moment I hate your team stuff.
I'm not saying that whatsoever.
I am a fan of baseball.
As a fan of baseball you don't want to see calls like that overturned on plays that close, it creates controversy and takes away from the rest of the series.
Real champions don't hit .235 and hit cameras either.
They hit .270+ and hit the balls over the fence.
Especially the Yankees, if any team has done it over the years it is them. Yankees don't win world series by playing below their average standard of play.
Yankees with world series impressively, the Mets are supposed to be the ones who win on cheap plays like Buckner's error.
And as a Yankees fan I wouldn't want my team wining cheesy either. I would want them to win playing their best baseball.
The Yankees are the best team ever. The Phillies shouldn't be losing to the Yankees on calls that involve cameras and stuff people never heard of before. If anything I can see the Yankees losing like that because they are the best, and mabye that is the only way they can lose, is by cheesy camera calls. Phillies should be getting hit hard and losing big if they are losing to the Yanks. It takes away from what was supposed to be a great series.
A guy hits a 330 foot home that only goes 329 feet, twirls his finger from 2nd base. And the umps go in for 15 seconds like it was Reggie Jackson's shot in the 1971 all star game. Its cheesy. Yankees are better than that.
I'm talking facts, you keep blaming one corrected call for your team playing scared. I haven't made one " I hate your team" comment. In fact I have been nothing but respectful toward the Phillies saying that they are evenly matched with the Yankees. MY only sarcasm is directed towards your statements. You made a statement that the Yankees never led in the 21 innings before the home run call. I asked how is that possible if the Yankees won game 2 with a score of 3-1. You never explained how. You stated that if the Yankees win they'll have the lowest batting average of any team to win. I pointe out that the Phillies are batting 15 points lower. You claim that if the Phillies come back to win there is know way their average can remain low because some how apparently you know the Phillies will only beat the Yankees in high scoring games and not close low scoring games.
Finally Mike if the yankees win with the lowest batting average ever you want to put the blame on poor Yankee hitting? You don't want to credit the Phillies pitching?
I like A-Rod, but twirling your finger at 2nd base in the opposing teams ballpark that happen to be the current champs with the Yanks being the all-time champs, like you hit a 565 foot home run like Mantle did that carried out of Yankee Stadium, when he knows the ball at best went 331 feet is cheesy.
Mike it's been fun but I need to get some sleep after reading my last post I see I said " know" when I ment "no". Have a good night.
Maniac the Yankees won game 2 3-1, but they weren't ahead in the series. That is what I am talking about, being ahead in the series. The game 2 win only tied the series up. Then in game 3 the Phillies took a 3-0 lead, that is what I am talking about. The Phillies were ahead or tied in the series in the 21 innings before the call. In the 14 innings after they have at no point been ahead in the series.
OK good night, still up for me though I don't fall asleep until 9 AM. That is my normal schedule.
A-Rod twirled his finger afetr the first basecoach told him it looked like the ball hit the camera and all A-Rod did was question the ump using the same signal the umps use to signify a home run. Please stop with this nit picking.
No MIke your statment was that the Yankees never led in any of those 21 innings . Go back and read. If thats what you ment it certainly was't very clear. And I repeat to blame that one play for the Phillies being behind 3 games to 1 is just lame and an insult to the Phillies.
That is not what I meant must have been a typo, I meant the Yankees never led in the overall series in the first 21 innings. They didn't have any series lead in the first 21 innings. They lost game 1, tied it up for game 2 and fell behind 3-0 in game 3.
Its not blaming the one play for the Phillies being behind, it is blaming the overturned call of the play from what was supposed to be a great world series.
As a fan, all you can do is talk about questionable calls. You can't say Jeter will hit .400, you can't say Cliff will pitch a shutout, you can't say this team is better or that team stinks, because you don't play for the team. Those statements are made for the people on those teams.
As a fan the handling of the play is dissapointing and that is all I can talk about, because I don't hit baseballs or make managerial deciscions.
It is one of the cheesiest homeruns in baseball history. And more than likely it is what people will remember from the series, and it wasn't supposed to be like that. If the call is ruled a double there is no controversy and its not a back breaker for either team, because A-Rod got his first hit and Yanks still had 2 guys in scoring position. If it is overturned and ruled a HR it can be a back breaker for the Phillies because it wasn't the original ruling on the field and it put runs on the board.
Mike I know longer can tell what your talking about. Stop saying that one play is responsable for ruining the series, its not. In the first game until Girardi made some bad moves with the pitching it was a close game as have been the last 3 games. Also stop with the batting low average argument. Your talking about an average over 4 games. With such a small sample size, one big game and those averages change drastically. Give the Phillies more credit stop saying that one play could make them play poorly. You seem to not want to give either the Phillies or Yankee pitchers credit for pitching well. Instead you want to say that professional players on the 2 best teams in the major leagues have let one call effect their play. Also for the record I have not heard or read of one Phillie player or manager or any Philadelphia reporter or sports caster say that the umpires were not correct in changing the call to a homerun. Even Tim McCarver, who does not like the Yankees ever since they fired him as an announcer thought the umps made the correct call.
It's actually been pretty funny after these past 2 games to see Joe Buck and Tim McCarver so crest fallen after the Yankees have won these games. You can hear it in their voices and see it in their body language.
When the camera has cut back to them after the game Joe Buck has been slumped in his chair and when Tim McCarver was describing a pivital pitch that allowed the Yankes to break open the game, he just shook his head as if to say, what could have been if the pitcher had gone with his best pitch and not been afraid to throw his slider.
holy hell are we still talking about the homer that hit the camera? Give it up already. Bad call, they Phillies lost by 3 not 2. The homer didnt lose the game, starting Cole Hamels helped with that one. He doesnt even want to play anymore, just "cant wait til its over". Maniac424, I look at A-Roid getting hit because if you dont pitch him inside, his steroids kick in, and he kills you. Every other team pitched him normal, and he killed them, overall, A-Roid has been quite this series with some very clutch hits, but thats because he was pitched inside, where he isnt very good. He was simply pitched inside, and it went a bit too far inside and hit him, he wasnt intentionally hit. I find it childish for A-Roid to say "its obvious". Like I said about the home run call, "get over it" The game is over, the Yankees won. More than likely MLB will get what it wants, and the Yankees will win the WS. They are a very good team. Really, the Fact that the Phillies took game 1 in NY, was rather nice. 6-1 in NY against the best team MONEY can buy? Not too bad honestly. The Yankees are a great, team, but honestly they are the entire reason MLB needs a salary cap. If there was a Salary cap, the Yankees would not have re-sign Andy Pettite, and would not have gotten Tex, CC and Burnett. I just dont see the never say die attitude the Phillies had in the NLDS and NLCS. Their facial expressions in game 2 said alot, in particular J-Roll. R-Rolls face in game 2 looked like he gave up, the Yankees did not. The Yankees were compltely humiliated in NY, and they came back and said HELL NO. The Phillies were in turn completely humiliated, but excluding a few players, there isnt that fire. Chooch has come up big a few times, Werth, Utley. But waiting for J-Roll, Howard and Ibanez to actually show up for a game at all. Ibanez I know is hurt, but what about J-Roll and Howard? They are slumping at the very WORST time of the season. Honestly J-Roll has one VERY AWESOME hit to win game 4 in the NLCS, other than that I think his batting average is like .190 or something. Starting Cole Hamels yesterday was just not a good idea. Charlie tried him out, and he pretty much sucked the entire post season. Why start him in the WS against the Yankees? The series is more than likely over, unless the ENTIRE Phillies team decides to actually play baseball. But when you have 3 or 4 slumping, a starting pitcher who "Cant wait till its over" and closer who pitches like Hamels who can look sharp until he is flustered than give up 3 runs. Its pretty much over. I dont blame Charlie going with Lidge tonight because he looked good the rest of the post season, I DO blame charlie for going with Hamels yesterday though. A-Roid was hit twice yesterday AFTER the homer correct? If Cole had pitched him inside instead of giving him a meatball down the pipe, maybe Queen cole would have flipped out and given up 3 more freakin runs the next inning before being yanked. Its annoying, and I dont like losing, but still, fact of the matter, the Phillies are STILL playing baseball when EVERYOTHER baseball team in the nation (obviously besides the Yankees) are sitting at home WISHING they were playing. I can say with almost 100% certainty, fans for MOST other teams (Cubs, Nationals at the minimum) would give ANYTHING to watch their team in the World Series whether they win or lose. We were spoiled by last year. But anyone who says last years didnt count is a moron and an idiot. Lets just enjoy another few days (hopefully) of STILL being the World F'ing Champs. The people who say last year doesmt mean anything because it was against the Rays…Hmm, probably mostly Yankees (before they bought the WS with that insane payroll) and Red Sox FANS because the Rays embarrased them. If any World Series doesnt mean anything it would be this one granted the Yankees finish it off. Really, a payroll of 212Million is it? The very BEST team Money can by. Does it mean the Yankees arent a good team? No they are a great team, look at them, holy crap, its basically an All Star team. But really, when you have a team that can go out and completely outspend EVERY other team by close to 70 Mill, there should be a salary cap. Considering the Yankees payroll is around 212 or 220 MILLION, and the Phillies are only (LOL) 111 Million, give or take a few million? The Phillies have hung around pretty well over all. I will ask again, would you rather lose in the NLDS, NLCS or the World Series? Me? Of course I would rather win the WS, but I would rather lose in the WS then not make it at all.
lidge and hamels – the players you love to hate. I would not have put headcase lidge out there. Madson, yes; even chan ho. And of course i wouldn't have put that immature baby, Hamels out there "i can't wait till this is over" – too stressful..well you got your wish MF.. He doesn't deserve to have even been on the roster for post season. Normal managers would have benched him 5 months ago…scumbag….And the shift? for what? that's BS, uterly stupid..did hillbilly do it to show us he is thinking outside the box? Not pitching loser lidge and headcase hamels would have been ingeneous. Yankees were licking their chops when they saw hamels and lidge on the mound. The phils are in a funk in their own park in the WS! unreal. I pray that Lee wins (i know we will lose the series) just so the Yankees don't celebrate in our park…that would be sacriligious. And BTW, where is Victorino who was the spark last year? and Strike-out king Howard, swinging for Center City? Not this year, phils…you almost pulled it off despite Hamels, Lidge and Hillbilly's best efforts to derail a repeat..but i'm sure they meant well..The Yankees aren't stupid – they will figure Lee out and he will be hittable….question is will the phillies figure out Burnett? Doubt it.
george55, how was lidge in the rest of the playoffs? Thats what I thought. I agree Hamels should NOT have started in the World Series, but why argue putting Lidge out there with how he pitched the rest of the post season? Again, more idiotic comments. I know Charlie makes some REALLY boneheaded decisions, but Im glad hes the manager and NOT you. If you were the manager we would look like the Mets did this season. And by the way, do the REAL PHANS a favor, and NEVER wear any Phillies stuff from 2008 or the NL Champs stuff from 2009. Do I think Hamels deserved to pitch in the WS? No, but to say "He doesn't deserve to have even been on the roster for post season." Wow another IDIOTIC comment. WOW, Darwin award for some of these comments, forget about Jeltz. True Hamels didnt pitch his best all season, and pitched like a 4 or 5 starter for most of the season, and not the Ace he wants to be and is supposed to be, but leave him off the post season roster completely? DUH. I person
I meant to finish with I personally would have not had Lidge on the post season roster, HOWEVER, there was no other choice, and he has pitched rather brilliantly the rest of the post season, he just got flustered at the wrong time, and pulled a Queen Cole by not buckling down after allowing the baserunner, then the first score, but to continue and allow 3 ER's that inning.
Whatever happens tonight, Harry would be proud of this team for everything they've done up to this point. And lest we forget, the Yankees of the late Nineties didn't even make the World Series in '97 before winning three straight from '98 to '00, and then came one inning away from a fourth in 2001.
With all that said, if Hamels doesn't come back next year with a) a better curve ball, b) a better work ethic, and c) a better attitude, I would trade him. Even if we get to Game 7, does anyone here trust Hamels to win it?
I was jokingly saying after we picked up Lee we should have changed the trade offer for Halladay to include Hamels instead of Happ, now maybe it wasnt such a joke. LOL. I wish I knew what happened to Hamels this season, but ouch. Would having Lee and Halladay instead of Hamels change the outcome of the entire series? Not so sure, but it probably would have changed the outcome in game 3 at the very least, which MIGHT have changed things, but we didnt get him, we are stuck with Hamels, in hopes that returns to his 08 splender, but Im not sure it will happen without those things stated by MikeD happens.
First of all,
Manuel should get the Jeltz.
He set them up for failure, by not getting, by having them overshift on Tex, not getting them out there and rallying the troups when Tex was up.
Players coach or not, he was not good last night.
If he knows his players, he very well knows that when Lidge gets a man on he is a different pitcher, go talk to him, Posada and the Yanks did it all in the 7th and 8th.
Did you really want to win? Didn't show it very well Cholly
Brian – so i'm guessing was your turn to tend to Jr and you couldn't resist a comment. Right now I am just praying for a game seven. We can't go down 4-1…not after this amazing post season. I am glad to be back in the WS of course but man the timing is bad to meet up with the Yankees esp. with Hair Product Hamels and Lidge with off years….One of the reasons i felt confident was that the Angels and Twins crapped the bed and we don't make mistakes like that in high stake stituations. The Utley error (don't get me wrong he's played well this series) was like a dagger in the eye and the Damon play ugh…no need to shift in that stituation but somebody forgot to cover 3rd…rookie mistake. I still feel like this 3 day rotation thing could work to our advantage if the players you mentioned can get it going. CC still did look great, a few bad breaks on well hit balls and some dreadful 3-1, 3-2 swings were the difference. Props to Blanton…one of this season's unsung ones. Just another pitcher crapped on by an inconsistent offense
Brian – that's "CC still didn't look great…"
One tihing that pissed me off is that Manuel should have talked to the umps about all the mound visits and game delays or at least had us do the same thing to them. Credit the Yanks, they schooled us in gamesmanship last night in our own house.
Look it's plain and simple. The 2009 Philadelphia Phillies have thus far lost this series. Not Brad Lidge. Not Ryan Howard. Not Raul Ibanez. Not Charlie Manuel. Win as a team, and lose as a team. The Yankees have played better when they needed too. Simple as that. They are not beating the Phillies, the Phillies are beating themselves with a lack of situational and timely hitting. The Phillies could have easily won game's 2 and 4 if their offenses had shown up. But they didn't. They could have won game 3 if their pitching had shown up. But it didn't. Some of the guys that got us to this point have so far failed to show up. It happens. The Yankees just seem to want it more. Good for them. They can buy all the talent in the world, and that's fine. Baseball allows for it. But just suppose baseball did infact have a salary cap, what would the cut off point be? Would the Phillies have even been able to take on Cliff Lee's salary? Maybe. Maybe not. I have absolutely no problem at all with what the Yankees do. Think about it, you know going into the year that all the Yankees care about is winning it all and they will do whatever it takes, spend whatever they have to, to win. How can you not be happy with that? If the Phillies had that mentality and means I would be thrilled. Not so say I am not. I am fine with the way the handle their things. But it actually bugs me when people bring up the buying talent thing. The Eagles, Flyers and Sixers all work within a salary cap, how is that working for them?
Also, Joe Blanton did a fine job. He gave his team a chance to win. Sure you could have started Cliff Lee, and maybe he got them a win, but then who starts today? Blanton, suppose they lose? Then they are exactly where they may be if Lee wins them the game tonight. Down 3-2 going into NY. Not like Sabathia handled the Phillies, he didn't. We had our chances and didn't capitalize. So be it. The problem is, as it has been for the better part of the year. The Phillies don't have enough quality starters. During the season and in the first two rounds of the playoffs their bat's covered up their glaring weaknesses. This series they have not.
Obviously I want the Phillies to win the World Series again, but if they don't I certainly am not going to abandon them and say we need to trade Hamels and Lidge needs to be run out of town. Get serious people. Winning can spoil people and in sometimes prevent them from seeing the reality of the situation. This is a good Phillies team that is one or two pieces away from being great. Don't lose sight of that amongst your anger, disappointment and sadness. There are fans of 28 other teams that would kill to be having the discussion we all currently are.
I agree J-Reed. The Yankees being able to control the temp of the game the way they did last night was ridiculous. Again, they did what the game allowed for. Charlie either should have complained or done it himself. Charlie is very much content with not causing a fuss and most of the time I am ok with it, but on the few times that he should get in there and get his hands dirty, he doesn't do it. And that is frustrating. But Charlie is who he is. So be it.
Don't lose faith. The Phils need a 3 game winning streak. They've always been a team that goes on hitting streaks and they need to wake up the bats. A team that typically make the timely hits has not done that in this series so far. 8 homers with no runners on base makes them look a lot like the dodgers in the last series. But this is why it's a 7 game series and the old "play one game at a time" cliche is appropriate. Tonight Lee needs to pitch a decent game but more importantly the Phils bats need to wake up to give a chance for Martinez. If we do what needs to be done tonight, the team really needs to give Pedro some run support (which they haven't done in the post season). So stay die hard Phillies Phans.
just glad to see the phillies lose new york rocks lets go mets
I'm a huge Ruiz fan, but I have serious issues with the pitches he allowed Lidge to throw in the 9th last night and Hamels in the 4th and 5th the night before. That said, the damn Yankees got the job done, fouling off good pitches and squeezing out hits. Phils took some weak swings at pitches late in the game, which is not like them.
Am I the only one who thinks Ultey had a shot at making the right hand flip for the force out at 2nd base in the 5th? He made a great stop and did the high-risk glove flip. Badda-boom, badda-bing, two runs eventually scored. Didn't like that play at all.
I'm reading some columnists saying Phils should have started Lee last night. This is complete and total BS. You can't pitch the guy every night. If we had done that, we'd still have Blanton going tonight. The thing is, CC wasn't all that sharp on his short rest and Phillies hitters just didn't take advantage. It was mostly about hitting solo home runs.
Sick feeling this morning, but this one is a long way from over. Lee gives us a great chance of sending this back to New York for Game 6. Unless Girardi shifts things, we'll get Burnett on short rest and then Pedro against Pettitte on short rest. Then, assuming we make it Game 7 (Cholly has to start Happ, right?), we get Sabathia on short rest. Plus, the longer the series goes, the more hittable Rivera gets.
Our backs are against the wall, but in other ways, things could really play in our favor. But the Phillies need to play a better and smarter to pull it off.
Go Phils!
You should thank Lidge. He was just making sure Phillies fans didn't have a chance to destroy the city after winning. Freakin animals…
The one and only argument for starting Lee last night was with the hopes of using him again in game 7 if it gets to that. That is about it. Blanton did a fine job last night. They didn't lose because Lee did not pitch last night.
well, The Phils scored 4 runs last night. Lee probably would've given up less than that.
You make a fair point, Ed R. But people who make the Lee-over-Blanton argument as an explanation for last night's loss are totally not seeing what actually what went right (Blanton) and what went wrong (low RISP and Brad Lidge) last night. Except for a couple of costly walks, Joe the Pitcher was everything we could have asked for. I just say that If we can extend this series, the decision to give our pitchers full rest (as opposed to theirs) will look better and better. But we still have to execute. And Lidge has to bounce back.
If by the grace of God this series can make it to game 7, I start Happ and I have everyone available in the pen. Including Hamels.
Lee can win it today, though he has to deal with some serious Yankee momentum. Give Pedro the ball in game 6 and I guarantee he will finish what he starts. Maybe not throw a CG but the Yanks will be in trouble and then game 7 and its C.C vs whoever we start.
The Phillies can do it, it's as uphill as it gets, but they can do it. And if they can't then I look forward to the Hot Stove talk. This season is a success whether they win or lose.
Yes, a crushing defeat thanks to Mr. Mole. But we are not dead yet.
Remember fellow Phillies fans, the most dangerous player in a game is he who is backed against a wall and has nothing to lose.
Very well said Ed R.
To Rayfan: No one cares about Tampa. Even TAMPA doesn't care about Tampa.
To byebyefrillies: We had very little in the way of "incidents" after our win last year. A few stores had broken windows. How about the celebrations in other cities (especially Detroit) where cars get turned over and burned and they end up with more or less rioting in the streets?
Ed R. – Just getting to game 6 and I'll be happy. What hurts the most right now isn't so much that the offense sputtered but the sloppy, unintelligent baseball we've played so far… when Damon took third (heads up on his part) that was so amateur hour on our part.
I predicted and bet at the beginning of this series that my Yanks would do this in 5, and so far everything has happened the way I thought it would. Why people thought that this would be a great series or that the Phillies could even win is beyond me. The Phillies are gritty, gutty, determined etc. I know, but the bottomline is the Yanks have a better lineup, better starting pitching and a better bullpen. While I would much rather have them celebrate in the new Yankee stadium, for the puposes of my bet, we get to Cliff Lee tonight and end this thing.
what is "The Feliz home run because distant memory"? HAHA
I agree j-reed, that is what has been so frustrating about this series. Like I said before, the Yankees have not been beating the Phillies. Statistically the Yanks are not doing anything special but they are getting it done when it matters. Damon taking third because no one was covering was just another example of smart baseball. Something the Phillies used to do all the time and suddenly can't seem to even be in the position to do so. Hopefully it all changes today.
Just thought I'd stop by to say hello, since so many of you were thoughtful enough to share your thoughts with us on Dodger blogs last month. Here in L.A. we are enjoying this series immensely. What great fans and what a great bull pen you have! And I'd like to give a special shout-out to Davey Lopes–refusing to pose for a photo with your former Dodger teammates was class all the way, buddy. Savor every minute today, because, well, it might be your last day as world champions. Excuse me, I have to go find a box of Kleenex to dry my tears.
Ed R. it will all change today. The Yankees will win and the Phillies roster will get shaken up in the off season.
The Phillies took Game 1 … the Skankees won 3 straight … time for a momentum shift Phellas, and take the next 3.
Skankees is definitely not as good as Philthies
I think Ruiz deserves the Jeltz.
1. He is calling the game. Lidge best pitch is his slider. Ruiz has Lidge throw 3 straight fastballs that Damon gets a hit on.
2. Asked at the presser who is to cover 3rd, Manuel says the catcher.
3. A-Rod hasn't come close to hitting anyting off speed or breaking so what does Ruiz call for…. 2 fastballs and we all know what happened.
If not Ruiz miss mangement of those batters things might have turned out better. There were other canidates for the award as well. Manuel for bring in Lidge when the game is tied. Never bring in Lidge when the game is tied or down a run or two. Nothing good ever happens. Also when the game was tied 2-2 what was up with Utley and that glove flip. Take your time and just get the force out. Don't try and make a spectacular play and get nothing. Hopefully we win tonight but it looks like the evil empire is going to get another title.
These arguments that people are making are ridiculous.
"The momentum of the series was changed with the camera homerun call."
"The Yankees are the best team money can buy."
This World Series has come down to pitching and timely hitting just like every other series between two pretty evenly matched teams though the Yankees are better in my opinion. Better starting pitching and a deeper lineup. Rollins, Victorino, Utley and Howard are not as good as Jeter, Damon, Teixeira and ARod. Sabathia, Burnett and Pettitte are better than Cliff Lee and the garbage you throw out there after Lee. I respect the Phillies because they play hard and are confident, but they are a flawed baseball team. The Angels were a tougher matchup than the Phillies.
The Pbillies have crappy starting pitching, a crappy bullpen and not one .300 hitter in their lineup. They are an extremely flawed team.
Oh yeah, this isn't the Tampa Bay Rays the Phillies are playing. I wish the Phillies played the Red Sox last WS. Red Sox would've taught you guys a lesson.
They brought in a Pitcher named Lidge,
now his fans want to jump off a bridge.
His team paid the price, and he put them on ice,
'cause his arm is as cold as a 'Fridge.
Maybe the Red Sox could have taught us a lesson if they had beaten the Rays….come on Mets troll you can do better than that…
Burnett and Petite are better than Cliff Lee….seriously are you twelve years old…
Bob – now that's funny.
Blue Cheese Steak; Thanks for stopping by….. YOU LOSER! After two straight years of the Phillies beating LA like a dog, glad to see you take such joy in watching a team do what the Dodgers couldn't do (or NEVER will do!) Crawl back under your hollywood rock, you slug!
I found this on bronxbabybombers.com:
Pettitte and Burnett on short rest:
Burnett – 4 G, 4-0 record, 2.33 ERA, 27 IP, 19 H, 2 HR, 10 BB, 24 K's, 1.07 WHIP.
Pettitte – 14 G, 4-6 record, 4.15 ERA, 86.2 IP, 86 H, 6 HR, 38 BB, 69 K's, 1.43 WHIP
If Lee can pitch out of his mind again tonight, we can get to Pettitte in game 6 and who knows what is possible then.
High hopes fellas.
It was a gut wrenching loss… the type of loss that makes you say "If only we had…" Truth be told, we have wasted some decent pitching performances and squandered opportunities throughout this series…
I think that it would be foolish to count this team out. This team is not going to quit. As the adversity grows, this team gets better.
Cliff Lee is going to give you a decent performance tonight… after that, it's Pedro on the big stage against Pettitte on short rest (something he has never done) and then CC on short rest for game 7 and this team is not afraid of CC. I know that you've gotta take it one game at a time but you have to think that the matchups are now in our favor… part of the reason more teams don't go with a 3 man rotation is because you end up with poor matchups in games 5 and 6. These next two games are winnable…
The Phillies have won three games in a row on 14 separate occasions this season… don't lose Phaith.
I'm pulling a Joe Torre tonight and seeing Bruce Springsteen. I've got no phight left in me. … To all the Yankees trolls in here — you can choke on that trophy. While you're it, take your loser, can't-beat-Mike-Huckabee ex-mayor and that talentless starf*cking bimbo Kate Hudson and go back to that overprivileged little island that nearly ruined the world economy and is currently ruining baseball.
Wave your hands all you want, the Yankees are a bought team. They don't cultivate talent; they cherry-pick it. It's a major dysfunction of the league right now, and it starts at the top with Bud Sleazy.
What if Ryan Howard was actually called out at home and all your points are moot?
Joedad – in what time frame…and at what point in Burnett's career. He's 32 and been on DL for alot of his carreer. That tells me nothing.
j reed, not sure. i was looking for pettitte's record on short rest. His record and stats are worse than on normal rest while Burnett's are better than on his normal rest, but a much smaller sample. My guess is that Burnett's was years ago.
Here is the bottom line. Charlie Manuel helped lose this series by not doing what the Yankees did. Put Lee out there on three days rest. He is a crafty starter and would of been fine. He saved him for a worthless game. The Yankees have hitters that are clutch. We do not. When Rollins and Vic got on base with no outs, we didnt get a single hit with our big guys. The Yankees do. Howard was horrible in this series. There bullpen is much better with MO. There three starters on three days rest are much better then hamels, blanton. Charlie has no idea how to rotate his pen. Get rid of Hamels, tired of his crap. He does not have the mental game to play here. Get rid of blanton, lidge, and feliz. I know feliz did alright last night. We need a new third baseman. Bring up Drabek, use happ. What a disgrace that happ did not get a start. Ibanez looks lost. Give credit to the yankees for making us pay when they had too.
Don't ask me how… but somehow I still believe. I still have faith in this team. I know we're down 3-1 but we are the fightin phils, we don't give up, it's simply not in our DNA.
The Tampa Bay Rays were a VERY good team last year….worthy of being in the WS. I mean, how long were they in first place last year in the AL East? Oh yeah, that's right. MOST of the freaking season……where have the Red Sox been the last two years?? Nuff said.
Ed R. ……
GREAT post at 8:40. Everybody on here should read it if they haven't already….
"There are fans of 28 other teams that would kill to be having the discussion that we all currently are."….
Put this all into perspective people…..would you rather be a fan of any of those teams right now.??
Go Phillies!!!!!……As a VERY famous Yankee once said.., "It's not over til it's over."
ScottinDC – Another baseball "fan" who knows nothing about the game. Jeter, Rivera, Pettitte, Posada, Chamberlain, Melky, Cano, Hughes, Coke and Gardner are all fam system guys. Burnett, Sabathia, Arod and Damon are not. The whole your team is bought argument is idiotic at best.
Also, a lot of Cole Hamels hate. Wasn't he your best pitcher last year and the World Series MVP? Cole Hamels should be untouchable in Philly, but he's not because Philly is a terible sports town. Rollins said it. Donovan knows it.
Let it be known that this is the end of Brad Lidge's Phillies career. November 1st, 2009.
I can tell you all that it's done and there is no need to believe. You ae playing the team that won 103 games this yea and was easily the best team in baseball. The 3peat begins right now.
Yankees in 5 — the phillies decided to be really really nice
j reed, I did my own fact checking…Burnett's stats on short rest I listed above are bogus. He started once on 3 days rest after a regular start, in 2004 against the D-Rays. The other time was after he had a 1 inning relief appearance in 2008, the others were in relief. Sloppy work by bronxbabybombers.com
Lidge does suck, but that was known coming into the series. He was more of a liability than your undisciplined lineup who while having a ton of power makes way too many unproductive outs. We will close it out tonight. Cliff Lee doesn't have two starts like that in him. If he does, I will tip my cap to him and we'll do it back up here in the city.
Actually, the one start he had on 3 days rest in 2004 was after a start where he lasted only one inning. Wow, this is really a gamble by the Yankee$
Jeff G. – Ibanez has a Sportsman Hernia ….he's most likely going under the knife this off season. And ever since Happ reinjured his oblique he hasn't pitched a decent game and has gotten into hitters count just about every appearance he has made this post season although if we get to a game seven then we'll have to use him because Hamels can't do it. Drabek? yeah lets fast track another two pitch pony but with the added bonus of having had Tommy John surgery the year prior to this. He still needs another viable pitch to handle lefties
3peatbeginsnow: Thank you for making my point in a different way: " … Posada, Chamberlain, Melky, Cano, Hughes, Coke and Gardner are all fam system guys" — and they have, with the exception of Posada, been nonfactors. And you forgot to include, ahem, Texeira to your bought list.
The core of the Yankees pitching staff and its sluggers are all big-ticket imports.
It was a team loss… I think that both Charlie and Chooch should have been on the mound after that Damon play. Lidge was obviously shaken but there were still two outs… Ruiz got scared to call that slider but we all know that is his best out pitch and he was working it last night. I want Ruiz to go out there and say (in his Panamamian tone), "Listen Brad, there are two outs… we've got this. Don't worry about the runner; he's got nowhere to go from third so all you've gotta do is focus on the batter. So here's what you're gonna do: you're gonna throw that filthy slider and we're gonna make Tex look like a little leaguer. If it's in the dirt, I've got it. You just throw the damn ball like you know how…"
Lidge should have covered third… but it's Jimmy's job to remind him. We've all seen Jimmy get to balls like the one that Jeter hit in the 5th… We've all seen Utley make that flip to second base.
This is a game of inches… hard hit balls don't always find gaps. How many bloop effing singles have we seen the Yankees get in this series? They've had lady luck on their side, much like we did in 2008. To overcome that, the Phils have to take advantage of every opportunity that is on the table…
People bitching that Lee didn't pitch last night are somehow forgetting that it takes 4 wins (doesn't matter which games) to win the World Series.
I read today that Cliff Lee has NEVER?? pitched on short-rest… if that's the case, then experimenting with him in doing so in World Series Game 4 isn't the right spot..
Win tonight, worry about Game 6 after that…
If you're telling me that you don't think
Lee can beat Burnett
Happ? could beat Pettite ..
and Pedro could beat Sabathia (on short-rest again)..
It ain't over til its over.. this Yankees team is GOOD, not GREAT..
I don't how you can want to get rid of Hamels. He carried the Phils last year and is 25 with insanely good stuff. Even supposed postseason gods like Beckett have off years in October (see 2008/2009). The Phils core is young and ridiculously talented…they stampeded through the DS and CS this year, and the Yanks haven't tarred and feathered them or anything. Both Game 2 and Game 4 could have gone either way…it's reflective of how the postseason really is a crapshoot. I understand the desire to overreact, but Phillies fans really should step back from the precipice and appreciate that they have a dynasty in the building. Plus, 3-1 does not make for a done series, especially when your game 5 and 6 starters are Cliff Lee and Pedro Martinez and game 7 is all-hands-on-deck.
Hey Brian of CO do I think the Philly pitchers hit A-Rod on purpose, no. But I do think they were very careless in their efforts to pitch him inside. Seems like an attitude of we pound him inside and if we hit him , we hit him, better he be on first than 2nd or hit a home run. I think A-Rods comment was more out of frustration, can't be much fun being plunked 3 times in 2 days with a major league pitch, and please you can't really think A-Rod is still on steroids with all the tests they've been running on him. Or are you really a conspiracy believer. Someone lumped Pettit in with A-Rod & Clemens, that's just wrong. What did he do, take a couple of HGH shots while on the DL in an attempt to heal from an injury so he could get off the DL and help the Astros. How much different than getting a cortisone shot was that. From what I remember HGH wasn't even illegal at the time. It's not like it was giving him increased strength.Clemens is another story , never liked him even after he came to the team ( already a roid head). Until this year a huge number, if not a majority of Yankee fans were not wild over A-Rod, sure he put up big numbers but the majority of them were meaningless home runs and RBI's, ones that just padded Yankee leads.Then came this year and all of a sudden he started getting game winning hits on a regular basis. I think after all he went through in the off season and spring training a load was lifted and he could finally relax. I say this kiddingly but maybe his divorce helped, maybe his wife was always dogging him, why don't you get the respect Jeter gets, why don't you get the endorsement deals Jeter gets, why did you have to move to 3 rd base. In my earlier posts with Mike Schmidt I was mostly having fun with his pretzel logic and couldn't beleive what little respect he was showing the Phillies saying that they were playing scared ever since the home run call and then when he started whining about the Yankees winning with such a low team batting avg over the 4 games and that they should be embarrased to win with such low avg., all this when the phillies were actually batting 15 points lower. I guess he never heard the old addage, that good pitching will always stop good hitting.
You made the comment"The people who say last year doesmt mean anything because it was against the Rays…Hmm, probably mostly Yankees " is not true, Yankee fans were glad to see you beat Tampa Bay. We can't stand them since the 2008 Spring training game when Ray's infielder Elliot Johnson rammed into Francisco Cervelli and broke his wrist in a meaningless game. You must have gotten us confused with Met fans, allthough I can't see how that's possible, we have a lot more class than them.lol
Obviously the umpiring has been pretty sad with bad calls going both ways. Amazing, the harder they've tried the worse they've gotten.
Finally I've gotta say, from what I've read on this thread, the Phillie fans here have shown them selves to be a much saner and respectful group than ones I saw on another Phillie fan site. Apparently this Phillie fan got the Yankee fans at the game confused with Met fans and said they should all go home get cancer & swine flu and die. When a Yankee fan wrote back asking him how he could say such a thing, the Phillie fan replied "Why don't you come down here and I'll make a lamp shade out of your skin".
Scott in D.C.
…Thank you … to suggest the Yankees "homegrown" talent is the reason they are winning anything right now is a joke .. I would rather the Yankees fans simply say that there isn't a salary cap in baseball and that we're just jealous they can afford Players X,Y, and Z
Joba Chamberlain sucks balls.. outside of Jeter and Rivera, their "homegrown" stars don't do much
2-3-4-5 hitters in the lineup, Damon, Tex, Arod, Matsui were all bought
and their top two pitchers Sabathia and Burnett were bought too..
that is a bad arguement by any Yankme fan
Joedad – yeah i thought something was rotten in demark on Burnett. Petite looked flat but he did make pitches when he had to…still put up 4 on him….but this is why if we get out of our own way and Lee gives us a reasonable chance we force a game 7….winning game 7 another story all together. Even CC looked shaky. Oh an d Melky Caberra is he out for the series…did he get hurt last night…he a troublesome fella in the bottom of their line-up that i don't want to see.
What's the point of hating the Yankees? They're a big market team with a big market payroll. It might seem unfair but there's a lot of risk to spending $400 million on four players… it stinks because small market teams can't afford do that but that doesn't mean they can't build a champion. There are different formulas for success and inevitably, the owners decide how they want to spend their money. The Yankee owners have decided that they want to invest in their roster… it could be worse. I mean, they could keep all that money and change their name to the Eagles.
3 peat- the reason Cole doesn't get a free pass is because he's not the type of player that this city associates itself with. He spent the offseason doing interviews and living it up… he was unprepared. Further, he's not a team guy. He can't wait for this season to be over… really? That doesn't sound like something you should say while your team is competing for a championship. He's a primadonna and Charlie has said that he doesn't like high maintenance players… he doesn't fit the mold and I would be very surprised if they kept him around.
Dear Don M-
There isn't a salary cap in baseball, and you're just jealous that the Yankees can afford players like CC Sabathia, AJ Burnett, Mark Teixeira, Johnny Damon and Alex Rodriguez.
An honest Yankee Fan
P.S. You gotta admit: Pettitte, Rivera and Jeter are pretty friggin' awesome. Even there, though, the Yanks spend the $$$ to keep those players, too (or in Pettitte's case, bring him back) so the financial disparity still sits front and center.
P.P.S. Your real beef should be with MLB – and honestly – all of the other owners who:
a) really, really like revenue sharing and the Yankee – I mean, luxury – tax on top
b) admit in private that having the Yankees, Sawx and Dodgers as contenders every year is actually much better for business.
c) your own ownership, who also swims in scads of cash, but fails to have the same monomaniacal commitment to winning that bizarre group of people known as the Steinbrenners do.
Yankees have more cash than any other team because they play in the biggest market ..
I'm glad that our payroll isn't $200 Million …because I like to be able to go to games, and I'm positive that REAL YANKEES FANS can't afford to do that..
I know this because, the fans that left World Series games early couldn't possibly be REAL FANS.
In Philadelphia, we stay until the last out..
I'm with you Don M….
Phillies fans..
Can we PLEASE be smart enough to understand what Hamels meant by his comments ????
Clearly he doesn't want his team to lose .. he meant that he can't wait for HIS season to come to a close since he can't seem to figure things out right now ..
No need to make more of his comments.. he doesn't want the team to lose… let's not try to flip words around to make for interesting stories
ScottInDc – We have a three man rotation and two of them are free agents. In that regard you are right. Half of our lineup are free agents and half are homegrown. The rest of our pitching staff is homegrown. Lidge, Feliz, Lee, Pedro, Blanton, Ruiz, Werth, Ibanez are not homegrown products. What do they say about people living in glass houses?
Most of the intelligent Phillies fans on here DO appreciate that there's a
"dynasty in the building."….This is a very good Phillies team…that will be largely intact for a few more years…a tweak here and there and there's no reason to think thay we can't be good for awhile….
Trade Cole hamels for Roy Halladay. Throw in Lidge if necessary. Sign John Lackey or Brandon Webb. Seek two quality relievers — one lefty and one righty. Next year's rotation: Lee, Halladay, Lackey or Webb, Happ, Blanton, and Martinez. Use Kyle Kendrick and Jamie Moyer in the bullpen in long relief or if someone gets hurt as spot starters. Strive to sign both Lee and Halliday for three or four year deals.
Sign Chone Figgins to play third and bat leadoff. Move Rollins to the sixth or seventh position in the batting order.
3peatbeginsnow: They are "halves" in number only. I'll say it again: The nucleus of the Phillies is homegrown; the nucleus of the Yankees is not. Sure, the Phillies have availed themselves of the free-agent market to strategically plug holes. But the Yankees are *built* on free agents. As the saying goes, they don't rebuild; they reload.
Rivera and Jeter are two of the best players of all time, no doubt about it. The others you cite — Cabrera, Cano, Posada — are good baseball players, but not the kind of exceptional talent that's required to carry a team through multiple championships. For that, the Yankees pay ridiculous sums of money.
As others have noted, it's not worth crying about. It's a fact of life. But it *is* a fact.
Hey guys, I just want to say that as a Yankee fan I am embarrassed by the trolling by classless Yankee fans that has gone on during the game threads. I usually check out the opposing blogs just to see how they are seeing things (what is being colored by team loyalty) or if they hate the announcers as much as we do. I don't ever comment because it's classless to gloat when we're winning or to antagonize when we're losing.
I find trolling, no matter who is doing it, to be classless and senseless. Fan blogs should be for the fans of that team to celebrate and commiserate together without interference and I apologize for Yankee fans who don't get that.
I was wincing as I read the last few game threads to see such behavior from so-called Yankee fans. Stay classy guys.
Well, real Yankee fans do go to games. They just sit in the cheap seats. There are actually a few of them in the New Stadium.
Personally, I'd prefer that the Yanks didn't have the payroll that they do, and that they endeavored to cycle their runs at championships like most clubs do (draft, develop, trade and add key FAs). But they don't. And you don't choose who you root for when you grow up with it in your bones. So, I'll enjoy that the Yanks owners decide to pump money back into the team and experience operating losses as opposed to other equally rich owners who try to squeeze as much profit for themselves as they can.
Philly has the fourth largest tv market in the country (2.9 million), behind New York (7.4 million), LA (5.5 million) and Chicago (3.4 million), and it has one MLB team, whereas each of the others has two. They ain't poor.
Are we paying these guys with Monopoly money??
Lee, Halladay, Figgins … ??
Let's get Lebron in the offseason too
I'm one Phillies fan….and there are LOTS more that aren't jealous that we don't have Sabathia, Teixeira, and Damon (we'll all take Lee, Howard and Ibanez any day, thank you)….As for A-Rod….yeah, he's an upgrade OFFENSIVELY over Feliz…..but no thanks, Idon't want him and his baggage on MY team….and AJ Burnett??….it's not like we're talking about Roy Halladay…
real yankee fans go to games all the time…and if you think our teams large payroll cheapens beating philly trash in anyway think again… its hilarious how many "real" philly fans have jumped ship. You want to fire your manager every loss, trade your best players, and crucify last years world series mvp. Enough with criticizing the yankee fans, team, and organization and take a look in the mirror. Your city is second rate and so is your team.
There have been something like 7 different winners of the World Series in the last 10 years. How much money you spend has nothing to do with whether you win the World Series or not. Ask the Marlins, Cardinals and Angels about that.
A salary cap in baseball wouldn't mean a whole lot. Agents will always advice their players to go to New York because that is where you can make the most money. It happens in all sports yes even ones with salary caps. See Eli Manning. You want advertising dollars. You want high revenue streams? You want to maximize your value? You probably want to play in New York.
Also, the Phillies 5,6,7 and 8 hitters are not homegrown. None of their top 3 pitchers (Hamels is a 4 in this guy's opinion) are homegrown. Free agent pickups and trades are all apart of the game. Thee is no rule saying you have to have more homegrown players than not.
I went t ocollege in Philly and now live in Brooklyn. I see that the little bother inferioity complex is alive and well. I never really saw it until this series. The reasoning behind Yankee victoy and Philly defeat is asanine. There are some great fans, and I don't want to paint everyone with a boad brush, but there is a reason why the fans in Philadelphia have the reputation that they have amongst the general populace. Get a grip people. We've had moe timely hitting and have pitched better. That's why we're up 3-1 in the seies. Here is anothe newsflash. We have a better lineup and better pitching which is why we will win the series. This is not rocket science. The difference between the two teams is minimal, but there is a difference.
Phillies spend what they should on payroll .. Yankess spend more than they should ..
and for the guy saying our players aren't homegrown either…
Lidge, Lee, and Blanton .. we had to give up prospects to get them
Ruiz.. he's ours
Werth was picked off the scrap heap by Pat Gillick, a genious
Ibanez, Pedro, Feliz .. Free Agent signs
Don M- you and I usually agree… I know what Cole was saying but even knowing what he was saying… about wanting HIS season to be over… I still have a problem because OUR season is NOT over and we still need him. He doesn't want the team to lose but his confidence is clearly gone and saying something like that adds to the weight that is already on everyone else's shoulders. It's a LONG season and the urge to pack it in grows with every 40 degree contest… comments like that make fighting that urge to call it quits much more difficult. I think that he's selfish… I think that he's a primadonna… I think that he has a lot to prove in 2010 and hopefully he's willing to work on it. If not, let someone else deal with him.
As a matter of fact, more than half the Philly lineup was acquired and not homegrown. All of you pitchers wit hthe exception of Happ and Hamles were acquied and not homegrown. Unbelievable that you all would use that excuse. Here's an idea, how about people stop bitching about how the Yankees spend their money to build their team, and worry about how their own team is being built. The Phillies have a ton of money, but similar to the Eagles they would rather spit in the face of their fans and not spend it. Why not get Halladay and Cliff Lee? You guys sure could use anothe pitcher now. You had the prospects and the money to do it, but you didn't. They are both under contract for next year so you guys wouldn't even have the decision to make this offseason. A move like that is one that the Yankees make. Kind of like signing Sabathia AND Burnett.
FYI – Cano is having a terrible series, but he hit .320 with 25 hrs and 80 rbis this year. As a matter of fact, Cano and Jeter are the fist double play combo in ML history to both have 200 hits and 100 runs scoed and hit over .320.
Chuck- I was just having a little fun there with Don, who asked that Yankee fans be honest and instead of pretending like their payroll isn't bankrolling their perennial contention (*cough* 3peatbeginsnow *cough*) rather go to the "you're just jealous" routine. I just picked our highest-paid, highest-profile FAs, who all do happen to be pretty good and obvious reasons for the Yanks even being here. I'll go on to say that even the "homegrown" guys – Jeter, Rivera and Posada – cost a boatload of cash, and the Yanks are one of the only teams that can or will pony up that kind of dough rather than lose them to FA.
The Yanks are a mercenary team. Personally, sports are entertainment, and when it comes down to it, in this type of fiction I think it's kind of fun to root for Darth Vader. It's pretty simple, really, and Yankee fans who try to spin it any other are delusional.
Can we give him the chance to work on it in 2010, before we all try to trade him for pine tar and batting gloves this offseason??
Don M – My apologies. You're right in that uiz belongs to you guys. Your logic is so faulty and subjective that I can't even begin to break it down. When the Yankees win the World Series this year, it will be of many New Yorkers opinions that they spent the appropriate amount of money this past offseason because the end goal is to get to and ultimately win the World Series.
You call the signing of Werth genius and he has been a great pickup for you guys. I call our identifying, courting recruiting and signing of Teixeira and Sabathia genius. It was well known that Sabathia wanted to stay in the NL because he likes to hit. He is a Cali guy that loves teh wam weather as well. We sold him on a rotation that he would be the head of for the next decade that will do nothing but try to get to and win the World Series every year. Teixeira was indifferent between NY and Boston. However, Mrs. Teixeira greatly favors NY over Boston. Most high end rich women do.
Are we really talking about a salary cap when the Tamap Bay Devil Rays got to the World Series last year and baseball is the sport that has the most parody when it comes to winners and loses of championships? Come on people. I respect the Phillies a great deal, but two things need to be acknowledged:
1) The Yankees are going to win this 105th World Series
2) The Phillies have nothing to be ashamed about. They lost to a better team that has a better manager as well.
Acquired* …. is WAY DIFFERENT than BOUGHT AS A FREE AGENT
its not even close.. one involves lots of risk.. the other involves a checkbook
manic424 – thought i could clear this up for you…You said,
"How much different than getting a cortisone shot was that. From what I remember HGH wasn't even illegal at the time. It's not like it was giving him increased strength. "
Accepted medical uses in adults include but are not limited to the treatment of the wasting syndrome of HIV/AIDS and hGH deficiency. Unless there was substantial aptrophing of an injured muscle i doubt a doctor would prescribe it (controlled substance so requires prescription) when conservative therapies though more time consuming work just as well and are practically free of any adverse side affect like water retention and joint pain that HGH can cause (among other things). It does build muscle mass and like anabolic steroids can therefore result in strength gains…but what these substances do is allow an athlete to recover from workout much quicker so that they can work out more often…that's where the real strength gains come from. Without working out though it wouldn't really make that much difference in performance…you more than likely just to get cranky and fat. Cortisone is an anti-inflammatory steroid that can ease pain or decrease swelling. HGH is not the same thing as cortisone by along shot.
Did it take a lot of man hours for your scouts to Identify and Recruit such unknowns talents as Teixiera and Sabathia?
Diamonds in the Rough those two…
It's all well and good if you want to talk about actual things regarding the Yankees-Phillies, and the World Series. .. but don't be on a Phillies website yapping about nonsense
I was able to go to multiple playoff games the past two seasons.. most Yankees fans can't do that ..
The Rays, ..Marlins, Cardinals, Rockies etc.. can make it IF they have homegrown talent.. which eventually leaves for the big paycheck.. and allows the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Dodgers, etc.. to reload year after year.. which is why other fans hate those teams . .
Don – Just because you open your checkbook, it doesn't mean there isn't any isk involved. See Carl Pavano.
Scarpa – I am not delusional. I know it's an advantage to be able to spend money and get top guys. My only point is that's not why teams win World Series. you win because you execute. We haven't executed in 9 years thus we haven't won. We have spent money that entire time. I think we spend ou money a lot wiser, and I think a lot of credit for this year's team has to go to Brian Cashman and Joe Girardi. Look at eveything we have been through:
1) Spring Training – Arod
2) ARod out the first month
3) Slow start including losing the first 8 games to Boston
Once we got rolling, it was pretty clear that we were indeed the best team in baseball. I also thin kadding Swisher and Burnett did something to the team dynamic that was missing.
As an old timer I just have to say treasure this moment…imagine waiting 30 years between Phillies World Series appearances. But tonight we get to see them for the second straight year in the Series…so it is a day to remember…we have one more shot to knock the smug off the faces of the Yankees fans…so sit back and just enjoy. This series has been fairly close with an edge to the Yankees, but that can easily turn…win tonight and send it back to NY. Anyone from Philly who thinks it is over should be deported to NYC.
jeez – you would think that you guys are rooting for the minnesota twins on this site – yankee fans get this crap all the time but I honestly wasnt expecting this from another big market team
isnt your team riding a pitcher to the world series that you got in a salary dump from cleveland? I am not going to deny the yankees have a distinct advantage over the rest of baseball but so does YOUR team. What was the payroll discrepency between your phillies and last years's AL reprentative to the WS?
and I got news for you – if you want this phillies team to get built into a dynasty you better get ready for a payroll explosion – just like the yankees in the late 90s – when their payroll went to astronomical levels in large part due to having to extend the contracts of Jeter, Posada, Mariano, Pettite, Bernie, Tino, and O'Neill all around the same time – the phillies will have to do the same with your core players. I hope they keep your team together if nothing else than to shut you people up
As a life long Phillies fan I'm embarrased by our "band wagon" fans in the crowds yelling and chanting "The Yankees suck". Thats not class at all, and all they were doing is adding fuel to the Yankees lineup. They need to stop that shit. What they need to be yelling is "Phillies fans suck"
Just got to get it back to NY. One game at a time. Phils can't focus on winning the series at this point, just need to win game 5 at this point. Anything can happen after that…
Don M – How can you say that most Yankee fans don't go to playoff games when we have set attendance records at the new Yankee stadium thorughout the playoffs. Your problem is that your logic is wholly subjective.
Sabathia and Teixeira had their choice of what 32 ml teams. Would you agree that any team in the majors would have those guys on their teams. Yet the Yankees were able to land them both. I thank Mrs. Teixeira and Brian Cashman logging frequent flyer miles. Everyone just assumed that Sabathia was a foregone conclusion. It took time and effort as well as money. There is a lot of pressure that comes with playing and performing on the big stage. A lot of people can't handle it and will refuse to go to New York. Those that accept it will eap the rewards.
You guys should have gotten Halladay as well. That was your big mistake.
Oh and this series is far from over…We can sweep this team in 3 games, IF EVERYONE plays together as a team, and gets their heads out of their asses to play some damn ball
Excellent point JRollNewPrediction. When the hell did the Phillies become a "small market" team. That is patently false and pretty absurd. The Series certainly isn't ove, but it's nice to know that even if we lose this game we will have the all time winningest pitcher in postseason history followed up by our 19 game winning number 1 pitcher who in spite of being "dominated" by the Phillies has a statline of 7 ip 2 er and 6.2 ip 3 er in his 2 games started this series. He will be opposed by a 76 year old Pedro Martinez and then Cole "I just want it all to be over with" Hamels. Game, set, match Yankees. Doesn't take anything away from the Phillies and the fine season that you had. We were 12 games better than you all in the regualr season playing in the much more difficult league due in part to the DH. No one is talking about how we have overcome not having the DH in the National League park. I thought that was going to be a huge factor?
Thanks, Scarpa, for being honest.
Thanks, nynontroll, for being classy.
They must have taken the attendence before the 8th inning, huh? .. when there were still fans in the seats
The Yankees were able to land them both …. BECAUSE the Yankees outbid themselves to pay these guys record-contracts ..
If you're praising their signings as smart financial moves, or giving Brian Cashman credit for doing anything other than paying them a ton of money,… you don't really have any arguement at all
just remember back to 2004…game 3 ALCS NY 19 BOS 8…the Yankees fans were drunk with arrogance…and Boston smacked them down next 4 in a row…this is sports and these are two very good teams…I can't wait for a good game tonight
Thanks for telling us all that we "have nothing to be ashamed about."….nice of you to be so kind with your words….
But please explain why, IF the Phillies lose (last time I checked the series isn't over til someone wins 4 games), that it would be to a "better manager."
Phillies don't have enough pitching to win 3 in a row. You will need dominant starting pitching over the next 3 games to win. You can't bank on Pettitte, Burnett and Sabathia all faltering because "they are pitching on 3 days rest". One of the luxuries of winning 103 games and pretty much clinching your division by mid-August is the fact that you can give your starting pitchers tons of rest, and setup your rotation for the playoffs. I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but Joe has been remarkably consistent in sticking with the 3 man rotation. Sabathia, Burnett, Pettitte. Minnesota is done. Sabathia, Burnett, Pettitte, Sabathia, Burnett, Pettitte and the Angels are done in 6. Sabathia, Burnett, Pettitte, Sabathia, Burnett. These guys are being paid the big bucks to do a job, and they are doing it. Meanwhile, I'm hearing calls for JA Happ, "What about Cole?" calls , "Do we pitch Pedro?" calls, "Cliff Lee has NEVER pitched on 3 days rest but we should try it now" calls. We don't even have to delve into the bullpens.
"…and allows the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Dodgers, etc.. to reload year after year.. which is why other fans hate those teams…"
This is completely true. With their resources, these teams should have a much shorter development cycle, and most of them do (alas, not the sad and downtrodden Mets). Payroll disparity is a major contributor to who's in the thick of it year in and year out. Part of what makes for postseason parity is that luck plays a really, really big role in who wins in a seven game set. A great example is the Yankee fifth inning yesterday, where they scored two runs on dribblers and bloops.
It is a little bit rich for Phillies fans to cry poverty, though. The Phils do play in the fourth-biggest tv market. They're larded with resources, and currently have a salary 40% higher than the league median, 7th highest in MLB.
Who is saying the the Phillies are a "Small Market team" … I haven't read that anywhere..
The arguement is Yankee fans on here ranting like your entire organization is brilliant .. when really, you guys just sign the best player to the biggest contracts you can ..
one a select few teams in baseball that can do that ..
The Phillies as a "big market" team has the ability to sign some players, but since that money was mostly spent on homegrown players (Rollins, Utley, Howard, Hamels) .. we had to be creative in bringing in other players via trade.
the only player in the lineup that is a "Free Agent" in that sense is Pedro Feliz ..
We did get Cliff Lee pretty cheap, but it was a good deal on our part, one that cost us a few of our Top Prospects
if you think CC and Tex said "hmm, lets look at all 32 clubs and see which one I'd like to play for" you are joking. about 6 clubs could have landed CC and the yanks are the only team that could land tex, CC and burnett.
didn't tex not sign with baltimore b/c he said he was going to where whomever would pay him the most money?
You live in the past, you die in the past. Games 1 through 4 mean nothing right now for the Phillies. It's time to dig in and win the next 3 games.
I was pretty angry last night, but I came to realize that mindlessly thrashing at everyone and everything is unproductive. The team needs our support now more than ever.
Now is not the time to write-off the Phillies. The Phillies were the best team in 2008 and with 3 wins they can maintain that status. I sure hope we can win the next two and to witness an all-hand-on-deck performance by the pitching staff in a Game 7 win. I don't think it could get much better than that! Keep your heads up. It's not over yet!
"I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but Joe has been remarkably consistent in sticking with the 3 man rotation. "
That's a really Good catch there, I don't think anyone had pointed that out yet
Chuck – Why not start Hamels in Game 2? I know he's a head case, but the lefty pitcher in Yankee stadium is what you probably want to do with the short right field porch. Wouldn't you know it, but Matsui hit a cheap homerun down that short right field line to effectively put the game away. It also lets Hamels know that he's not even the 2 anymore which has to be a blow to his confidence.
Why not straight steal more. For the most part, Utley and Howard have struggled. Why not try ot manufacture some more runs to give them some easier RBI opportunities even ones where they can drive in a run while making an out. This goes back to my theory that while the Phillies lineup is very good and vey powerful, they make far too many unproductive outs.
While personally, I wouldn't have started Cliff Lee on 3 days' rest if he had never done it before. Sabathia vs. Blanton leaves the Yanks with all the confidence in the world going int ogame 4. We saw it from the outset and it is actually a testament to how great the Phils actually are. We start off with 2 runs. Phils fight back to even it up. We get two moe runs, you guys fight back to even it up.
That brings me to my last mistake. Brad Lidge struggled against National League teams all year this year. He had been nursed back into looking mediocre with situational matchups and 1 and 2 out saves. To face the best lineup in baseball is another story. Charlie almost got away with it just like he almost got away with starting Blanton against Sabathia.
Perhaps it's not Charlie's fault, but moe or less constraints with the roster that he has been given. You guys have scrapped and clawed and fought, but other than Lee's starts, the Yankees have the psychological and physical advantage in these matchups going into these games.
Oh come on – "I call our identifying, courting recruiting and signing of Teixeira and Sabathia genius" Both are superstars, no genius necessary… given the structure of MLB if you can afford it why not. I don't begrude the Yankees for doing that…. Does it give team an advantage of course it does but it is not a guarentee and those titles have been earned. What's annoying is when you put on airs that your self-made…your not. There is nothing genius about buying the best, and there less skill in managing an All Star line-up esp. a team in the AL no less…the team practically manages itself.
I haven't heard any fat lady yet. Take it one game at a time.
Its been a rough morning for all of us Phillie fans and maybe we deserve some of this vitriol that all of the Yankee trolls are spitting. Confidence can do that to you. We wanted to face the Yankees and thus far they are doing to the Phillies exactly what the Phillies did to everyone else. Its painful to watch but we can not lose perspective. Its been said before but I will reiterate that there are plenty of other teams that would love to be in this position. The Yankees clearly have an advantage monetarily, to say that isn't true is asinine, but to a certain extent so do the Phillies. Obviously the margin of error is much smaller for a 120mil team compared to a 200mil team but the truth is we have spent money…and it has paid off. TWO WS APPEARANCES IN A ROW PEOPLE.
I'm never going to understand the need for people to go on blogs and troll and brag and put people down. Its so classless and despicable. However, I'm sure there were plenty of 'Phillies' fans who ran their mouths after game 1. I would hope that a team from a 'classy' city like NYC would understand that we are just 'philthy' and that they should just ignore it but the fact is that all teams have both. Everyone in this world gets a bit too emotional about sports and everyone likes winning. Yelling and screaming about it and getting arguments about it isn't going to change anything.
I would also like to address the Hamels debate. Obviously the media is always looking for a scapegoat when things go south and Cole has admittedly been performing well below his standards but can we please look at what he actually said and objectively look at the way this season has played out for him. Cole has caught zero breaks this season…ZERO. He's hurt in spring training because he didn't have the time to train because he was fullfilling TEAM ORGANIZED PUBLICITY functions and constantly flying back and forth from FL to Philly. Why do we make it sound like he chose all of this stuff. The FO was banking on his popularity…plain and simple. Then in each of his first few starts he gets hit with batted balls, twists his ankle…etc. He never got on track and despite the fact that his peripheral stats were identical to seasons past he never could put it all back together. He was asked FIRST what he thought about a game 7…to that he answered that he WANTED THE BALL!!!!!!!!!!!! Then, he was asked hypothetically that if game 7 did not arrive how would he feel. He honestly answered that this season has drained him mentally and that he looks forward to an offseason to get right. He doesn't want this team losing…he wants to win as bad as anyone on this team. He just happens to wear his emotions on his sleeve…so sue him.
"The arguement is Yankee fans on here ranting like your entire organization is brilliant .. when really, you guys just sign the best player to the biggest contracts you can .."
In his defense, since Cashman has wrested control of all moves in 2005, the organization has been run a lot better. As poor as they've been this postseason, both Chamberlain and Hughes played big roles for the Yanks this year, and they have stockpiled a ton of young arms with significant talent in the minors. They have some outstanding hitting prospects on their way up. They also basically punted last year, holding off on emptying the prospect coffers for Santana and choosing rather to wait for CC. Despite the embarrassment of FA signings this past offseason, they still managed to reduce their payroll. So while it's ridiculous to suggest that landing CC and Teix amounted to any deep or shrewd scouting, it's also unfair to characterize the Yankees as nothing more than a robotic money dispenser.
The Hamels comment was taken out of context and he had a poor choice of words. Get over it already.
Don M – Only pointed to the obvious there to show how our pitching is MUCH more settled than yours.
Ben – It's still their choice whether they wanted to sign fo those teams. Carlos Beltran said he would have signed to play for the Yankees for less money than the Mets if we had made him an offer in that same ballpark. We didn't though. It's not a matter of who can afford to pay people, but where they want to go. Money factors into it, but a lot of people won't play in NY regardless of the money. See Jake Peavy, John Lackey and others who have stated such.
JReed – These are 27 grown men with 27 egos and 27 different sets of problems. Morover, you have 1/3 of these guys who make a ton of money and 2/3 that don't. I won't say that you comment "the team mangaes itself" is stupid because I see where you are coming from when you say it. Don't you think it's a little naive to make a statement like that though knowing the dynamics of a clubhouse and professional spots nowadays in general? There is a reason why Phil Jackson wins chips in spite of the fact he doesn't handle strategy on offense and defense. I'll give you a hint: it's NOT just because of the fact that he's had MJ, Scottie, Shaq and Kobe.
How is that unfair … to know that this season doesn't matter ..
all you need to do is NOT trade away your best prospects.. and then as soon as the season is over go grab the three best Free Agents out there
ROBOTIC MONEY DISPENSER is a pretty good label for that type of action.
I'd have more respect for them trading something to get something.. (doesn't always work out for that team, example METS with Johan Santana) .. but that is why people don't hate the Mets as much as they hate the Yankees (on a national scene)
One more thing rebuilding a repilca of your stadium, what should be a historical monument in my opinion was so Donald Trump….tacky to no end. I expected more from the cultural mecca of this country. Such friggin uncreative McMansion, nouveau riche bullsh*t.
I am having an off day, up Sunday morning 6am and off to work, get out early around 3pm, drive 6 hours just to get into Doylestown to stop by at the bar and get my heart ripped out at midnight. Then to the couch at my mom's house to try and sleep. Nothing to watch because I do not want to relive that ninth inning and Lidge not throwing sliders over and over again to Damon, or TX or A Rod. Now I come back on here and actually read some good stuff. This series is not over, just win tonight that is all we need.
I know it is only one or two posters but it is extreamly annoying, trade this guy And with a potential rotation of Lee, Happ, Hamels,Blanton and a pick of like 3 or 5 guys to be your fifth starter for an entire year. We will be back. This is a streaky offense we should all know that by now, and can get on track quickly.
When was the last time a Phillies team has been to back to back WS?
Oh yea NEVER. So I am going to be loud and proud at game 5 tonight and cheer this team. Just one win tonight tomorrow will take care of itself
Next year, the Steinbrenners are having YANKEE HATERS DAY at the new ballpark. "Anything to make a buck," is what old George said. He also said that if it is successful, he will have two YANKEE HATERS DAYS in 2011.
27 grown men? Aren't the rosters 25 men?
I'm not saying that it was a genius move to get Teixeira and Sabathia. I am saying that credit has to be given for how the process unfolded in getting them here. I can tell you that it wasn't just "we can pay you the most money so come here" negotiating.
Cashman deserves a ton of credit. Our farm system is in great shape, and we have basically all of ou guys (Damon is a fa and Matsui is probably gone) under contract for atleast the next 3 years. We have 3 guys under the age of 25 with ml experience who will be at the backend of our rotation along with Sabathia and Burnett at the top for the next 4.
We could have signed Santana and given up our 8th inning guy (Hughes), our centerfielder (Melky) and our 2nd baseman (Cano). Instead we signed Sabathia for a few million more (3 mil/yr more) and kept all of our young talent. We are witnessing the start or should I say we are at the beginning of anothe cycle of Yankee dominance for years to come.
Also, I feel I have been respectful and in no way vitriolic in our debate this morning. I respect the Phillies a great deal. They have made it to back to back World Series which is an incredible accomplishment.
Part of my excitement in addition to the parade is that I bet a lot of money on Yanks to win and Yanks in 5 for the to win odds were pretty poor. I was told that this would be atleast a 6 game series and I heard John Kruk and Mitch Williams who are supposed to be impartial say Phillies in 5 or 6. Also, it should be fairly obvious through voice inflection and commentary that Joe Buck and Tim McCarver are squarely against the Yankees. I apologize if I have insulted or come across as coarse to anyone on the board.
You just keep digging a bigger hole…look Giardi has managed a good series and has been aggressive when we've been passive i give you that …and don't drag another sport in the debate…it an apple and oranges thing…basketball is an a much more challenging sport to coach, as is hockey and football probably the hardest. It's a dumb comparison just like using other sports to discuss the cap issues…too complex for such a surface level analogy.
I think that we should stop talking about fairness and the Yankees… it's what baseball wants. Big market teams have a certain competitive advantage, yet nothing that would make it impossible for other teams to have a chance. You want big market rivalries and successes… and guess what, we're a part of that. We are a bigger market and we spend more than most teams. The Yankees have a formula for success and MLB has a formula for success and right now, both are working in near perfect harmony.
I think that these last three games will show the true character of this team. This series is a lot like our series with Tampa in 2008 – we won by virtue of getting more breaks. We haven't played our best so far in this series but we have some decent matchups over these next two… You have to feel good about Cliff Lee and Burnett/Pedro is something that everyone would love to see. Let's get to a game 7 and worry about CC later.
Ed R – Sorry. 25 grown men.
JReed – The architect had his own ideas for the stadium. Have you been? I think by and lage most people love it/will love it. It's in our nature as human beings to hate on things that ae luxurious/glamorous. See Jerry Jones Cowboy stadium. We'd much rather knock someone or something down a peg than to give credit where credit is due.
Don M – Let me get this straight. You don't respect the Yankees because they go out and sign people? That sounds very Eagleish to me. After all, if the Yankees have the ability to sign free agents, why should they? Who wants to spend money on the team when they could just sit on it and horde it right. Afterall, the only people who enjoy seeing a quality product on the field is the fans. Who cares about them? Do you see where your logic is flawed as a fan to complain about spending money to imporve the very product that you are consuming?
We have a farm system…you guys have a strip of grass.
Jreed – By bringing the salary cap up as an impediment to fairness, you are doing the very same thing. Because a salary cap has made sport x fair, it will also make sport y fair is the crux of the salary cap argument. What I contend is that there is no problem with baseball as far as parody in winning championships is concerned. I also contend that a salary cap will not even out any perceived issues with parody anyway. There is a salary cap in football yet the same 5-6 teams win every single year. Again, difficulty in managing between sports is wholly subjective. Baseball requires fewer decisions to be made, but the importance of those decisions are given greater weight as a result.
JReed – Yet, we have more guys from our farm system on our pitching staff and starting lineup than you do.
I think it's obvious that the Phillies need a big time righthanded bat next season. Werth can't do it alone against lefties. Matt Holliday would be the logical choice, but the Phils would need to move Ibanez first.
I AM AN ARCHITECT and that stadium is an abomination. I live in NYC and went to a game early in the season against Cleveland. I enjoyed myself because I enjoy baseball but I think that was in spite of the stadium, not because it.
3PEAT… I was thinking about buying tickets to a game up in NYC and it seems like there are a lot of POSSIBLE OBSTRUCTED VIEW seats. Is that true?
Oh give a me break it's a friggin ball park…it not Versailles…luxurious and glamourous…i don't know where to start with that gem.
And your tearing down a piece of history for this the new corporate playground. there's alot i don't like about the Yankee organization but I love baseball and its interwined with our country's history. The yankees are a big part of it…Tearing down that stadium is wrong… Wrigley and Fenway still stand…
Not to start talking about next season necessarily because this one is not yet over but we can be assured of one thing – the Phillies WILL BE overwhelming favorites to return to the WS again next year. We can wish all we want but the lineup will remain identical. Ibanez and Feliz will still be here. They will try to sign some bullpen arms but the real help will come from a healthy Romero, Bastardo in the pen all year, Scott Matheison being brought up (with his high 90's heat and power slider), etc. The big work needs to be done improving the bench which will be hard becauise there isn't much promise of playing time for bench guys on this team. Good problems to have in my opinion and I feel like they can be much more focused this offseason because the needs are smaller.
Dude doesn't even know how many players are on the god damn roster … im done talking baseball with him
Ok guys. I am off to the game. I am in NEPA so it takes a couple of hours to get to the city of the World Champion Phillies. Ususally I am on here rooting all night long so I leave it in your more than capable hands to cheer on our beloved Phillies. Just remember. Yesterday and the days before that are OVER. Today is a new day. Do not waste time and energy on the "what ifs" or the "shoulda, coulda, woulda" stuff. It does not matter. What matters is right now….the here and present. What matters the most is that the Phillies 10th man is up for this game. The PHILLIES PHAITHFULTonight the Phillies must…strike that…WILL WIN! Get those towels WAVING!
Yeah and who had all the goodies at the trade deadline…and we kept the best ones, a possible ROY pitcher and got Cliff Lee and Francisco for a handful of mid level prospects and some cash.
On the bright side, Philadelphia won overall matches this weekend against New York. While the Phillies dropped 2, we had great winning efforts from the Eagles, Sixes, and, you guessed it, the Passion!
We are still in the F—in World Series for Christs sake……Its a 7 game series where whoever gets hot wins it.(More money seems to win it too).
I am just going to sit back and enjoy the fact that we are in the series because ….,I could have been a Pirates fan.(Remember those fans that never have hope).
We can blame Lidge or Hamels or Charlie all we want,but those bad moments are over now, ( remember how great they were last year).
Somebody above put it best ..we will not win another game unless the entire team shows up.(If somebody could figure out how to make that happen,they have a job waiting in Amaro's office for you).
Finally,its not over…Lets go Phils
Even the the phils are down 3-1, I dont look at their situation as an uphill battle. I am a die hard phillie phan and when, (notice I said When and NOT IF) Cliff wins tonight, the phils are gonna be in a 3-2 predicament. I look at the 3-2 like a 2-1……Then they go into the next game looking to tie. Easy as pie…Remember fellow phillie phans, 27 outs at a time……Crucify me for this but I am an optimist; I always see the glass half full rather than half empty. Folks here can blame this one or that one, but that is unfair. Fate dictated the outcome and it is what it is. Like I said, Im gonna take one game at a time and hopefully we can FIRST tie the series and then WIN game 7. I still believe in my phils….please lets not LOSE hope!!
again I ask all you philly fans – last season when you beat a team with a 40 million dollar payroll, were you talking about competetive disadvantage? Was your payroll a big issue?
when you got cliff lee for a bag of baseballs because the indians wanted to unload payroll were you complaining – oh wait I 'm sorry that was just a great trade right? In no way similar to the yankees signing CC.
at least most yankee fans will acknowledge that we have an advantage – Hell, I get pissed off that their payroll is ONLY 200 million because it could be 300 million and the team would still turn a profit. Your team has what a 120 million dollar payroll and you are playing in Little League where that type of payroll affords you a major advantage.
bottom line is that these two teams are very evenly matched up:
an ace on each team that was bought – yes, cliff lee was bought and if you dont want to believe that think of how you'd feel about him if he was on the yankees
2 great lineups – and by the way it seems from the posts that everyone forgets that AROD and Swisher were both acquired via trade which according to most of you means that they werent bought – or is that only true if they are phillies
but the biggest difference is that the yankees happen to have the most dominant pitcher – not just relief ppitcher but pitcher – in the history of the post season and you guys have brad lidge…pretty sure Mariano is home grown and Lidge, correct me if I am wrong, is not
3peatbeginsnow, you make some good points, but the fact of the matter is that the most of the Yankees' impact players are imports while most of the Phillies' impact players are homegrown. And while the Phils may not have had Victorino and Werth at the exact beginnings of their careers, they are far from big ticket imports.
I don't think the REAL Mike Schmidt has said that much about the Phillies in his whole career, WOW
Hey j roll the Yankees aren't the mets
Question for all you so-called Yankee fans who are on here prematurely flexing your muscles…IF/WHEN the Phillies win this thing on Thursday night are you guys going to be on here bashing this team and this city on Friday morning?? Just wondering…
I went to last night's game with my wife and sat in left field, 10 rows behind Damon. We had the bad luck of sitting next to section 142 which had the Yankees front office in attendance (almost the whole section). They were so arrogant and obnoxious the entire game. The kicker was that after the final out, the Phillies fans started quietly filing out of the stadium and the Yankee fans kept chanting, "Let's go Yankees" among other things and wouldn't shut the hell up or leave the Park. They were acting like they owned the place. So naturally, a fight broke out between a Phillies fan and a Yankees fan. Then some fans from the upper level (underneath the scoreboard) dumped beer on the Yankee fans. Sorry, but in my opinion they deserved what they got. You don't go into another teams park and be loud and obnoxious….if you do, you deserve to get popped. I would personally never punch someone and I'm not condoning violence, but you can't be surprised if someone hits you when you act like a jerk. If you want to cheer quietly and root on your team, that's one thing, but after 3+ hours of their bull*hit we had had enough. We told them for 3 hours to shut up and they didn't care…show some respect when you're in another teams park. The same goes for Phillies fans attending games at Yankee stadium.
There are some obstructed view seats in the new Yankees Stadium, but theer will be flaws with evey stadium no matter how "perfect" fans want them to be.
I apologize once again for saying 27 on a oster and not 25, but it's clear from our cursory arguments Don that your logic when it comes to baseball is subjective and dare I say it a bit flawed.
I also agree the Phillies will be favorites to get back from the NL as will the Yankees. Until you guys get another frontline starter and atleast two bullpen arms, I will say that we clearly have the advantage.
3peatbeginsnow – you misread what i said about the cap. I never adovacated a cap please reread my earlier posts. In fact i only referred to in a comaparsion….
"It's a dumb comparison just like using other sports to discuss the cap issues…too complex for such a surface level analogy."
there's no way any team can say that being able to buy better talent than others doesn't give said team an advantage. It doesn't t guarentee a title and futhermore i said you still had to earn your titles. Given the current system spend if you got it. there are pros and cons to both sides of the argument.
3Peat — I don't think you've been coarse or disrespectful, and I've enjoyed the back-and-forth. A couple more points: Like campaign donations in politics, money is a necessary-but-not-sufficient thing in sports. Teams like the Marlins have won WS titles on shoestring budgets — but they promptly lose key personnel. As Scarpa said earlier: it's one thing to develop young talent, but it costs big bucks to keep it for any length of time.
And that's the rub of the competitive disadvantage: The Yankees are able to unnaturally *sustain* unnaturally potent rosters from year to year.
I also think you're underestimating the parity of NFL teams. I don't have the stats to unpack right in front of me, but my general sense is that you see a lot of variety from year to year in football, even if teams like the Pats are more consistent than, say, the Bucs. How else could one explain a team like the Jacksonville Jaguars? (As I understand it, that's a common argument *against* salary caps: that they're a sort of socialistic scheme that allows unfit species to thrive.)
I don't think it's a coincidence, either, that you've seen fairly decent parity in the MLB since the revenue sharing regime was implemented in '02.
I see. So Yankees fans cheer for their team fervently and passionately and they get beer poured on them. The derisive chant was "Let's Go Yankees." Like I said, I went to college in Philadelphia, and will actually be back for homecoming this weekend dressed in my Yankee garb. I am shocked that something like this would happen in Philadelphia. I have never been exposed to fans who lack perspective, knowledge and foresight. The way you guys treat McNabb and I guess Hamels is next, along with how you treated Iverson, Barkley, Schmidt, Lindros in that town is ciminal. Yet, you justify the bahavior such as the gentleman who went to the game with his wife did. It's unbelievable. How dare a Yankee fan chant Let's Go Yankees in an opposing stadium. The nerve of them. Stay classy Philadelphia.
3peatbeginsnow….as much of a Phillies fan as I am, I actually agree with you about Yankee fans, or fans of any team, cheering or chanting for their team in an opposing ballpark. As long as those fans aren't foul-mouthed and dangerous it's within their rights as fans to do that. It's no differen that what respectful Phillies fans (yes…there are some of us) would do in an oppposing park.
Hey CZ…. Do you know GEORGE COSTANZA. He's an architect too!!!
Actually you would be referring to Art Vandelay – not George Costanza…common mistake
Yeah, because NY fans just exude class. I just said I would never do something like that and 99.9 percent of Philly fans wouldn't do it either. Which is why there was only 1 or 2 people pouring the beer. But don't act surprised when it happens. Boston, LA, Chicago, NY, PHilly…there's isolated incidents in most of the big cities. If Yankee fans weren't so arrogant it would be a different story, but they think they are God's gift to baseball and all the other teams are their doormat. People pay alot of money to go to a world series game and then they have to listen to Yankee chants. It's bound to put a couple people over the top.
Beautiful. You know your Seinfeld. GO PHILLIES!
Here's the rub – phillies staff and personnel were given crap seats in New York, David Montgomery acted with class and gave an entire section of quality seats to yankees personal and staff
Ok, I will state it right off the bat… I am a Yankee fan invading this site; however, I am not here to talk trash. I am here to give a glimmer of hope to the Phillies Nation despite all of the trash talking and rudeness that the Philly-faithful have extended towards the Yankees and their fans. (And even news reporters.) As a true baseball fan… I too want to see a hard fought, down and dirty, gritty World Series between the two best teams in baseball. And I couldn't ask for anything more than to have my team face the defending World Champs for nothing is better than contesting to take the title from the title holders. (To be the man, you gotta beat the man!) I was completely expecting a seesaw, jockeying for position World Series and when the Phillies took Game 1 at Yankee Stadium, I was scared! But then the Yankees took the next 3 games and now it is 3-1. And even if we lose to Cliff Lee tonight, we still have Games 6 & 7 at Yankee Stadium. But sadly, (I don't believe in jinxing so I will state it), the Yankees are the owners of the worst debacle in MLB best-of-7 series history when the Red Sox roared back from 3-0 to take the 2004 ALCS! So all hope should not be lost Phillies fans! The only thing I suggest is… quit talking so much trash and just let the two best teams in baseball fight to the finish. I mean, cheer your team on, but having an entire stadium chanting "Yankees Suck" and "You took steroids" and personal, verbal attacks on players is not classy. I don't think you've heard one "Phillies Suck" chant at Yankee Stadium and I know our players have been silent! (Jimmy Rollins)!
The Yankees have 12 homegrown players on their current roster. 12 off the top of my head. How many do the Phillies have?
This Yankees team won 103 games in the toughest division in baseball. Had the Phillies played in the AL East, they would not have made the playoffs. The NL East is a complete joke.
You guys should be named the Philadelphia Cliff Lee's
Phillies fans are a black eye to SPORTS! You guys are a disgrace. Get a life.
Art Vandalay… nice.
It just seemed like there were at least a dozen sections with obstructed view seats. I thought that it was kind of strange since the only obstructed view seats in Philly are the ones behind the foul poles… three sections, at most.
There is NO PARITY in football… that's not a secret. Parity means that every team has a chance (more competitive games). This season, the NFL set a record for the highest point differential and the most teams UNDEFEATED and WINLESS heading into this part of the season. That is not parity… there are "haves" and "have nots." Teams like the Raiders and the Buccaneers can't get ahead because they're forced to overpay for unproven commodities (draft picks) and there's no continuity. It's really hard to be successful year after year in the NFL… it's more about staying healthy and coaching than anything else. You can plug average players into good schemes and they'll still work.
It's no excuse….chants a part of baseball….whether it's in our park or their's….deal with it.
My logic is flawed that the Yankees spend the most money on players that are Free Agents ??
That's incorrect by you… and also, I thought that arguement was done 3 hours ago
As far as I'm concerned, The Philadelphia Phillies are still World Champions until someone beats them in the World Series .. keep yapping there, kid
Yeah…your players have been silent to the media…at least not predicting like J-Roll did….good for you…
But what about A-Rod's little display of emotion last night after Blanton hit him (which wasn't intentional by the way)…..turning around and dramatically standing there looking towards his dugout….Seriously?? He actually thought that Joe Blanton was going to plunk him in a WS game in the 1st inning with someone already on base??
I don't think the opposing team SHOULD chant in the stadium …. but when they do, it gets booed.. and its all in good fun
Yankees fans are obnoxious .. so are Red Sox fans, Mets fans.. and Phillies fans..
Chuck…I did deal with it. I'm ok with the during the game chants, but after the game is over, why not just file out and be happy your team won? Why do the NY fans have to stand there and carry on like it's their park? I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, but I think that's pushing the other fans tolerance a bit. I would never go to Yankee stadium and do that.
People need to back off the Yankee strategy… some companies are willing to pay for talented workers and some aren't. The Yankees are one of those companies that DOES pay.
I would like to think that we're willing to pay, too… I mean, we've got one hell of a team and it's going to cost money to keep them around. Ryan Howard, Jayson Werth and Shane Victorino are all entering free agency between now and 2012. If we start thinking that we don't need to pay, those guys will walk and we'll be left with big holes to fill.
Scott and JReed – Both valid points. I think you can sustain talent by locking it up early. You can award high dollar/high year contracts for players. Think Ryan Braun and Evan Longoria. They are more or less locked in for the better part of a decade. I also think that you win with your farm system and not through free agency. We tried to do that with Abreu, Giambi, Pavano etc. The keys to this year's team have been the core (Jeter, Pettitte, Rivera, Posada), Hughes being the bridge, and Joba filling in before Hughes.
about as painful as painfil gets ladies and gentlemen. The silence here in Center City after the Posada double could be felt from blocks and blocks away…
-I'm not gonna play the "would've, should've" game today. It's just too painful. I'll watch tonite's game from 1st pitch to the final out as I have done all year for the most part. Sure the Yankee fans will probably take over the stadium tonite. Sure Charlie's moves have been historically retarded. Sure a win would only delay the heart break, since we really don't have any starting pitching left at all. Sure Lidge would just blow a 1/2 run lead regardless.
-But until it's over I still have hope. It's better than what any other team besides the Yanks have right now.
-For one more night at least we'll get too see our Defending Champs take the field in defense of their title. We're all gonna watch no matter what some of you might say. And I wouldn't blame you if you choose not to.
-But why miss out of an highly unlikely, but still possible WS win over the Yankees.
-Just try to extend the series Phillies. That's it……We'll worry about Game 6 in New York on Wednesday when it comes.
so say that MLB is one giant company.. and its got "offices" in different cities…
The office in the city with the most people will obviously generate the most revenue … they can then continually hire-away the best employees from every other office when it comes time for a raise ..
they aren't playing on an even-playing field, aren't comparing apples-to-apples, etc ..
It's not that companies refuse to pay their best employees.. but when the other office can double his salary, and you can't afford to do that … What should you do?
I would play High Hopes at the onset of the game. I think that the crowd deserves to hear it one more time… I think that it might help these guys settle down. Let Harry serinade one more time… we all need to be reminded that persistent ants can move rubber tree plants.
one game at a time….just focus on tonight's game.
phils will take it tonight, everyone relax.
You honestly don't know what you're talking about …
"The keys to this year's team have been the core (Jeter, Pettitte, Rivera, Posada), Hughes being the bridge, and Joba filling in before Hughes."
Jeter, yea … Texiera, A-Rod, Sabathia, Burnett all had more to do with your winning season than the guys you mentioned ..
P.S. Joba Chamberlain sucks at baseball
this was on the Phillies front page 2/10/09. I suppose it's okay when they do it:
"In a year when most teams seem to be cutting payroll or simply trying to maintain it because of a depressed economy, the Phillies' payroll has jumped from around $104 million on Opening Day 2008 to an estimated $131.5 million on Opening Day '09.
"We're fortunate to be in this position," Phillies general manager Ruben Amaro Jr. said. "If we can't put a World Series champion on the field at this level of payroll, that's my fault. We should be able to contend."
Don – You logic is flawed because under similar circumstances, you let your bias dictate your judgement of that situation. The Phillies got Cliff Lee because the Indians had no money. The Yankees got Sabathia because the Brewers had no money. The Yankees have free agents. The Phillies have free agents. The Yankees are in a big market, the Phillies are in a big market. The Phillies have a homegrown core that has been vital to their success, the Yankees have a homegrown core that has been vital to their success. You seem to view the two teams as wildly different. In reality, where I like to dwell, they are more similar than not.
Maybe YOU wouldn't do that…and neither would I….but you have to admit that A LOT of Phillies fans would….and so what??…..as long asno one gets hurt its just part of a rivalry-type relationship….
we don't have to win three staroght really. I know…. Crazy!
but win tonite; Cliff is more than capable of throwing a complete game. A.J. is still a right who will be coming off three days rest… Beat Pettite on Wednesday.
-Game 7 on Thursday will be fun as hell. Just dream for a moment
-It's Game & in the Bronx. Thousands of Phillies fans invade the Stadium II. The pressure of not choking is all on the Yankee shoulders.
-C.C. pitches on three days rest again. Cole ditches his junk curve and throws a 7inn/2-3 run effort. The Offense explodes sends C.C. to the early shower he has been begging for against us
-Phillies feast on the Yankee middle relief.
-It could happen…
-Then the Phils O goes
Scott in DC, the 1997 Marlins way overpaid for the best players they could find, Daulton and Eisenreich were bench players, won the championship and got rid of their players. The 2004 Marlins were younger and less expensive but still had some expensive players there. They were sold too.
A big payroll allows teams to make more mistakes. The Phillies are still paying Jenkins, Eaton and Thome. Small market teams can't make those kinds of mistakes unless minor leaguers can step in and play well. The Phils outspent everyone in their division except for the inept Mets so we can't complain about the Yankees payroll too much without sounding like hypocrites.
If the Phils played good, sound fundamental baseball like they are capable of playing, there is no doubt this series would at least be tied and money would never have been discussed. Enjoy the series.
i know the old mans style. But how does Ibanez gets to start against tough left handers at this point? And bat 6th? With Fransisco just sitting there on the bench. I understand loyalty but the Ibanez at bats have been painful to watch. He cant even make contact to foul a ball off.
I blame chambles for this more than lidge or any other player. Great attitude. Deal him while he has value.
first we have to win tongiht. With lee its a good chance. Then pedro at yankees is maybe possibly something if we can hit. Then game 7 i dunno its all hands on deck. Is Chambles even available in the bullpen? talk about a wasted roster spot.
Don – Werth and Cliff Lee are the only people who have done anything for you in this series.
P.S. Cole Hamels sucks at baseball.
As a knowledgeable fan, I know what I just said can't be extrapolated over the course of this entire past season nor is particularly true. Yet my statement is eerily similar to the one that you just made. The only problem is you actually believe it. Again, this is where your bias affects your judgement which is already a little skewed due to the flawed logic that you use to justify why the Yankees are what's wrong with baseball, and the Phillies are what's right even though both teams are more or less cut from the same cloth as far as how their teams were built.
There is no right or wrong here Don. Both teams are great. The Yankees are just better. Everyone knew it coming into this series, and Vegas had them as an overwhelming 1-2 favorite. Better pitching, better lineup, better manager. Let's not go attacking baseball now. One poster has already pointed out that you absolutely were not doing this last year when you played the Marlins a team whose payroll is 1/3 of what yours is.
To even attempt to compare the Phillies trading some of their Top Prospects for Cliff Lee (still a great deal for us) .. with the Yankees outbidding every other team in baseball with cash, for Sabathia is idiotic
They aren't even close to the same thing ..
Phillies have won three games in a row plenty of times this season… It wouldn't be a shock to see them do it again.. Sabathia on short-rest multiple times ..
If we get to a Game 7 of Pedro Martinez on full-rest, vs. Sabathia going on 3-days for the third straight time .. momentum in our favor.. I'll take my Fightin Phils
HR, it really is possible. Everyone kind of expected to go back to NY down 3-2… we win tonight and that's our reality: down 3-2… that doesn't sound so bad, does it? Someone has to be down 3-2, right? We just have to win tonight I don't know about you but I expect that. I feel pretty damn good about Cliff Lee. Take it one game at a time…
Excellent post Joedad. Those in glass houses. I know the Yankees cut payroll this year even while adding Sabathia, Burnett, Swisher and Teixeira. Teizeira's defense is the difference as well. Why we have played better defense than you guys is beyond me as well.
3peat – Sure the makeup of the team is similar as far as % or homegrown vs. FA type players but there is no comparison after that. The Yankees spend upwards of 200 million on their team. That is 70+ million more than the Phillies. There are big market teams and there are the Yankees. They are own their own playing field. It is the reality of the world of baseball and as long as everyone involved is making money that is not going to change. No one is saying the Phillies haven't been fortunate to have some money to spend but while we are signing the Ibanez's, Feliz's, Parks, Stairs', and past their prime Pedro's of the world the Ynkees don't bat an eye to sign Burnett, Sabathia and Texiera. The Phillies were not even once in the discussion for those players. Despite the fact that the Phillies have free agents we are talking about a whole different level of player here.
Its hard for me to say because as a Phillie fan living in NYC I doubt I'll get any humility from a single Yankee fan (i certainly haven't yet) but I applaud them for how they have played this series. Money doesn't play baseball…players do and they still have to execute. They have themselves on the brink by playing solid baseball but its too early to count the chickens…
No "Fat Lady" being heard yet…..
I would love for it to end in NY in Game 6, but it ends tonight. Cliff Lee is good, but he is not the second coming. I fully expect us to try and wait Lee out to get into you soft bullpen. We smell it, we feel it, and last night was a kick in the teeth for you guys after you kept fighting and battling to just get even all night. I know the Phillies are battle tested and have a bunch of pride, but you are facing the best team in baseball hands down. We cruised to 103 games, and ifwe were in the NL East, we might be looking at a 112-50 type '98 Yankees squad with the roster we have now. That is neither here nor there though.
3peat…IF that happens…fine…..Congratulations in advance…..
But let's just see how this thing plays out….Cliff Lee isn't the second coming….but then neither is CC, Mariano, Jeter….or Babe Ruth for that matter….
I like our chances tonight…
I hear the fat lady singing and I have begun to count the chickens. You all sound eerily similar to Angels fans with your hope and optimism of extending a series against a team who is better than you namely us.
CZ – Your playing field argument is a matter of perspective. Oakland, Kansas City and Minneapolis would say that you guys ae on a level all to yourselves for they could never fathom spending 130 million dollars nor could they fathom increasing payoll in this dreadful economy. The Yankees couldn't even fathom increasing payoll in this dreadful economy. With times the way they are, the Phillies have an embarassment of riches and are just slapping the system in the face.
Again, I don't eally believe those things, but you see how easily the argument could be made. It's all about perspective Phillies fans. Tell me, were Rays fans crying about payroll disparity last year. I don't think they were. Please don't make me say the fans of the defending World Series champs are whiners because they keep making an argument about payroll which is both irrelevant, hypocritical and nonsensical.
Lee has pitched like the second coming this postseason and can throw upwards of 130 pitches so unless he struggles with control or is absolutely needed to be pulled for a pinch hitter, you may not see the pen today. Burnett has never pitched on 3 days rest so you have no idea what he is going to do. The Phils play well with their backs against the wall. The Yankees were in a similar situation in LA during the ALCS and Burnett was rocked.
Vegas likes you guys tonight as well. Here's the problem with that though. People are piling on you guys and rightfully so because Cliff Lee was lights out game 1. I feel like the public per usual are discounting the other small factors that will make this game incredibly intriguing:
1) Where are Rollins, Victorino, Utley (when CC isn't pitching), Howard and Ibanez? Lee pitched gem, but CC eft after 7 tailing only 2-0.
2) What happens in a close game that the Phils are winning, but Lee is tiring. Do you guys feel good about Madson or Lidge.
3) If the Yankees ae winning after 7, and Joe tries to stretch it like Joe will do and go Mariano, what strategy do you guys have for him. You said you had a strategy, but I am looking for one that will work.
I don't think anyone is complaining about the dollar-figures of the payroll …. but if you remember, you started an arguement saying that your team was just as much "homegrown" as ours
and if you look at the number of players on each roster .. that might be true
but looking at the lineup .. your 2, 3, 4, 5 hitters were all Free-Agents
and your top two Pitchers cost you ZERO PROSPECTS to obtain
I stated earlier.. maybe we're jealous about the payroll number, wish we could spend more too … but for any Yankees fan to neglect the fact that THAT is WHY YOU WIN .. is just neglectful
just tell us you don't care how your team wins, and leave it at that … don't try to create arguements when your first one doesn't carry any weight
Rays fans are probably crying about payroll now, since their homegrown talent peaked (good enough for an AL crown) .. and now instead of buying up those players and adding around them .. they have to choose which ones they need to trade, which ones they need to keep … and if they are lucky they'll manage a few season above .500 .. and their misery will start again
Joedad – I fear the Angels much more than the Phillies. The Angels have better starting pitching and a better bullpen. Pitching is still the name of the game and that is where the Phils come up short. Lee will burn through 130 pitches in 7 innings. Hopefull;y the Phils have a significant lead. Anything within 3 runs and the Yankees are right there. If we happen to have the lead after 7, it's done. Ou numbers with leads after the 7th inning are stagerring.
Please do us all a favor….IF the Phillies win….please come on here Friday morning and take it like a man from us…..don't worry…most of us are pretty harmless really…
If the Yankees win…and you come on here….please don't act like the a$$ that your coming across as today….
Fair enough??
How doesn't it carry any weight. How the lineup is crafted is dependent upon the manager. Torre had ARod bat 8th in a playoff game. Does that mean our 8 hitter was a free agent at that point and not our cleanup hitter. If we trade prospects for Santana instead of keeping them and paying Sabathia, does that make you feel better. You see what I mean when I say you lack perspective? You all increased your payroll during the wost economy since the Great Depession. That would turn a lot of people off.
Original Chuck P……Nothing wrong with keeping the faith…… Let's win tonite. So we can keep the "Dream" alive. You think folks up in Beantown would give up?? Nope! It's not like the Yankee have been killing us by 7-8 runs a game up to this point. "I have Dream" lol……
That's "I have a Dream" of course…..
The Yankees buy wins and rings with financial resources that far outmatch other teams in baseball. The ability to do so degrades the game into a pure form of entertainment rather than an athletic competition. To argue otherwise is laughable and should be dismissed without response.
Kudos to Jimmy Rollins for taking the blame for Damon's double steal. That's a stand up move and the right thing to do.
Chuck – That is more than fair though I contend I'm not acting like an ass. People don't like to hear the truth, but would rather just continue to believe what they have been told to believe. The Phillies have a huge payroll. We also know that they increased payoll during in this terrible economic climate. The Yankees slashed payroll dramatically this year. The Phillies are no better than the Yankees as far as the team and how it was created was concerned. If anything, the Phillies have the ability to spend like the Yankees and choose not to. The yeasily could have gotten Halladay which I stated in an earlie post would have probably won them this World Series. I'll be here as soon as the game is over, shitfaced mind you, saying something along the lines of 1 chip down and 2 moe to go before it's decision time.
Torre had A-Rod bat 8th when he was scared of the big stage.. and sucked in games that mattered
"If we trade prospects for Santana instead of keeping them and paying Sabathia, does that make you feel better. You see what I mean when I say you lack perspective?"
What perspective?? … I would feel better that, like 95% of the teams in baseball, the Yankees would have given something up to get something in return .. instead of just paying that next player with yet another record contract
If you're counting on Hughes, Chamberlain, Melky Cabrera, etc.. to lead you on another redition of Glory Days .. you will be sadly mistaken
Yeah 3peat stroll up thru the post a and check out the real stats. Joedad unearthed about Burnett pitching history on 3 day rest which coupled with half of his career on the DL is not such a pretty picture. Look our team which i thought turned a corner this post season and would become more your line-up, didn't exactly make it fully around. Were in the middle. But if the bats get hot we could easily destroy burnett and petite. This three days rest thing could blow up in your face. Then again when we get cold you could put the ball on a tee and we couldn't get a hit. It's maddening. If evil phillies show up tonight congrats, if not Lee can hold you down long for us to take this back to new york. Burnett is a two pitch pony…two seamer and curveball…if he doesn't have that two seamer working he's a dead duck. You bull pen with the exception of hughes (nice breaking ball) can serve us up fastballs all night and they will get rocked.
Hey Chuck… consider the fact that you are a Major League Baseball hitter and you want to do your job at bat. It's bad enough you get intentionally walked often, but then you get plunked for the 3rd time in two nights. Was it intentional… absolutely not! But it still gets frustrating, especially for one player. So A-Rod looked at his dugout. He didn't come out after the game and say that the Phillies are playing dirty. In fact, when asked if he thought it was intentional, A-Rod simply answered… "I don't know and I don't care. I am just focusing on winning one more game."
As for the fans… each team is going to have their share of bad apples for fans. But the welcome committee for Yankees fans in Philadelphia have not been too heartwarming. In New York, we realize that having the visiting fans in our city makes for good business and good moneymaking opportunity. Of course you are going to get some heated words hurled at you if you walk down the streets in Phillies attire, but for the most part, we won't tell you to go home. During the hype before the series shift to Philly, I was watching CBS News NY and they were interviewing people in Philadelphia. One guy had a baseball head with a Yankee insignia on it with a bullet hole in it's head and blood pouring out with the phrase "Die Yankee fans die!" on his t-shirt. They interviewed him and he said "I don't even want New 'Yawkers' in my city." Then another guy they interviewed told the reporter herself "Are you kidding, I wish YOU would go home."
Let's face it, both Philadelphia and New York are notorious for their overly enthused sports fans but overall, we need to set a classy example. We have the two best teams in baseball battling it out in the World Series and something that you don't get very often, the defending Champs there again to truly try and defend their title.
3peat – the whole 'Yankees didn't increase payroll argument' is very misleading. The only reason that they didn't increase it this year is the fact that some extremely horrific contracts from years past finally came off the books. You know that as well as I do. The real fact is that in a bad economy the Yankees committed almost 500 million dollars to 3 players. The phillies increased their payroll because they know that equally bad contracts to Thome, Eaton and Jenkins will come off the books this coming year. Stop spitting hairs.
You are correct – there are 20 teams who are jealous of the Phillies payroll, but the fact is the Phillies only started spending AFTER they found success. They did not spend to attain it. They slowly and methodically built a winner out of homegrown stars and as the team began to play better and the fans came out consistently they rewarded the fans by paying to keep those players. After adding some complimentary guys around them we sit with a WS. There is a HUGE difference to the two narratives. The end result may be similar but the road to get there is nothing alike.
Roy Halladay is a great pitcher….Maybe he would have helped us and and maybe not….Instead, we got Cliff Lee….I don't see any Phillies fans complaining about that pick-up so far…
some of you people are pathetic
and that's all I will say
Remember, the fourth win is the hardest one. Phils have their real 'ace' going tonight against a tired Burnett. Howard is due to break out. If they win tonight, then it's 3-2 and on to game six. One at a time. Winning from a 1-3 deficit has been done before. It's been done to the Yanks before. It's a hard feat, but this is a tough team, despite Hamels. They can do it. Keep the faith.
Well put, CZ ..holla
I have not read any other posts – I have a good idea what they say. I was at the game in left field.
Basically the Yankees were a little luckier than the Phillies. I thought Blanton outpitched his foe. The Phils hit a number of balls hard but right at fielders, the Yankss hit mostly soft hits that found space. I thought Lidge was fine, in fact we thought he had Daman struck out on that foul tip (could not see it from LF).
It was a fine game but crushing at the end.
This is baseball, someone wins and someone loses. Both teams played well but the ball bounced their way.
No, I don't think the Phils will win the Series but it is NOT anyone's fault. Everyone is trying and sometimes they win and sometimes we win.
Play ball!
Dodgerfan – That kind of simplistic analysis of the financial system in baseball is laughable and should be dismissed. Do the Yankees have resources? Yes Do the Yankees spend money? Yes. The yankees spend money that other teams who could spend that amount don't. The Steinbrenners have operated at a loss over several years because they reinvest a ton of money back into the Yankees whereas ownership like the Wilpons or the Tribune Company in Chicago could spend more money, but choose not to.
someone tell Howard that it's OK to hit the ball to Left Field tonight when Burnett throws curveballs on the outside corner ..
Nicely done CZ…Bob the yankee got some typical baseball breaks but their not playing Jeff Spicoli baseball right now, we are, much to my horror. Still we know what happens when they wake up…
Yeah Don M. – the one night we should have been aggressive we weren't…played it to safe…some of those were cookies. We didn't adjust to the umps's strike zone.
What this says to me is that the Yankees did not buy their recent championships as much as people think they did. The Yankees fiscal insanity has pretty much come since the World Series years. During the championship years, the team was much sloer to the pack, and in 1998, the 114 win year, was outspent by the Orioles.
A large part of the huge increase, especially in the past five years, has to do with the YES Network. The Yankees generate massive revenues from the network that are probably unparalleled in any sport.
I don't agree that other teams can spend what the Yanks do. They built the model for the sport with their ground-breaking yesnetwork. That gives them a huge income stream in the #1 market to buy the very best talent, which feeds the yes machine, it becomes a self-sustaining process. The Wilpons and the Tribune or the McCourts cannot afford a $200m++. Nobody can other than the NYY. And I don't think they're losing money at it. But the good thing is it does take more than money to attain a championship . . . but enough money can get you close.
The NYY are just playing by the 'rules' . . . the business rules. There's no cap, and they have positioned themselves to take the most advantage of it.
BTW, I think the big turning point was not last night with Lidge. It was Saturday night, the moment that Hamels walked Teixeira and threw a hissy fit. Up to that point, Hamels had been staked to a 3-0 lead and all the momentum. As usual, Hamels let a small slight shake him, he promptly gave up the camera shot, and he then imploded, losing the game. Had he not gone haywire, I think they would have won game 3. The Phils have been on their heels since.
Hopefully, there is another turning point tonight.
The same people who are complaining about the Yankees are the same people complaining about Obama turning this into a socialist country. Either you love capitalism or you don't. There is no middle ground. I love capitalism, and the Yankees are breaking no rules in doing what they are doing. Let those hwo are too big to fail, not fail.
That's right everyone goes to the team with the best intentions to win regardless how much they spend and furthermore everyone seems to forget for a few years there they had all the money and they didn't won then
3peat – your not getting it….it's like someone who was born into money and despite his success which he earned he will never get the same props as the guy who came from very little and goes far. You can't have that…that's price you pay. No one in your organization will ever get Connie Mack status. Look 26 rings. Grown men wept when Mickey Mantle died, I can't watch Lou Gerhig's Farewell address without getting alump in my throat, the Sultan of Swat, Roger Maris, joe dimaggio and his 56 consecutive hits.. the one record that will probably never be broken to name just a few….what else do you want… i wish the shoe was on the other foot…we, one of the oldest teams in baseball live with the 10,000 losses over our head.
Win or lose tonite Philadelphia we have to keep this thing in it's proper perspec.
-No one wins every year. No one. Not the Redsox, Not the Cards, Not the Angels and not the Yankees. But these teams get the same fan support every year for the most part.
-The worst thing Phillies fans can if we go on to lose this WS is to aban. our team.
-I'm sure most of us diehards on here won't, but I hope the rest of the City follows suit. Our success current/future depends on the continued fan support. Please don't go all fickle on us Philly. That's all I ask.
You can argue what team is better all day long. But .235 avg and a 4.00 ERA are not World Championships numbers. In fact, they are the worst World Championship numbers of all-time.
Very true….the Yankees indeed are "breaking no rules in doing what they are doing."…But there's an underlying arrogance…..to the point of shoving it in everyone else's faces…with how they are doing it….
So….in a way, 3peat, you're right. Technically, you're not acting like an ass like I said earlier….you're just pompous and arrogant….much like the organization you support….
Again…..Friday morning you either 1) come on here and congratulate us and take whatever we dish out to you or 2) come on here and act a bit less pompous and arrogant..
3peat, are you trying to convince US or YOURSELF that it's ok to buy a championship? You doth protest a bit too much, it seems. And although much of what you have said on here is true, your attitude is exactly what I find so annoying about the Yankees and their fans. Think about it, you have been on a Phillies blog most of the day extolling the virtues of a team that unabashedly spends money like there's no tomorrow, the day after our team lost in a heart-breaker. If that isn't arrogance, I don't know what else to call it. Yes, you speak very intelligently and make some good points, but I didn't see anything even remotely humble in any of your posts. Why don't you try asking Orioles or Pirates fans how they feel, year after year of losing records because they can't compete with the bigger markets?
The thing that bothers me the most is that you seem to think that the Phillies have absolutely NO chance to win because the Yankees paid more for their players, and therefore are the better team and can't possibly lose. ANYTHING can happen in three games, and after reading all of your crap today, I hope more than ever that our "scrub" team beats your snotty a$$es!
If you lose to the Yankees, the best team of all-time and hold them to the worst batting average by a ws champ ever at .235 there is no reason for the Phillies to feel dissapointed by how the Yankees played against them. .235 & 4.00 ERA numbers for a world champion just flat out stinks.
The worst of all-time…… Come on dude. Even if true so what….. Stop being so depressing. There's a Phillies game tonite. It may be the last one of year. Just try to enjoy it. Even if only a little… sheesh….
Sorry Mike. I read your post all worng. Sorry again…
Hamels & Lidge, Hamels & Lidge, Hamels & Lidge…
Might make for a nice karaoke bar.
I don't need to convinjce myself of anything. I'm just trying to get the facts out there. The Yankees were in line with everyone else up until they got the YES Netwok in 2002.
Mike Schmidt – I read your posts yesterday after the game. What the hell are you talking about? What is the Phillies' batting avg. and era in the Wold Series? Are they playing championship caliber baseball, but through a series of unfotunate events are down 3-1? You keep posting those numbers. What do they mean if that kind of paltry performance is beating your team.
Don't worry. My homeboys in Philly just turned me on to this site. I will be here tomorrow morning no doubt. Again, I don't understand how I am being pompous? I give the Phillies the utmost respect and will continue to do so. I don't think we are the better team because we spent more money. We are the better team because we have better players. If you go through the lineup and both pitching staffs, it's eally quite obvious. If the Yanks can win this in 5, daddy will be buying himself a new pair of shoes and can maybe take the old lady on a vacation pre Thanksgiving.
@ 3peat
Whoa…you don't think you are the better team because you've spent more money? That's EXACTLY why you're the better team. Now, maybe you're getting tired from posting so much and therefore you lost your train of thought but c'mon man. I don't blame the Yankees for fielding the team they do. They're playing by the rules. But, your #3 hitter and #1 and #2 starters–that you bought–made your very good team great and lead you to where you are now.
It means exactly what it means a .235 avg would be the worst of all-time for a world series champ. When you look at history and it says worst hitting ws champ of all-time and it says 2009 Yankees, it isn't an impressive way to win. It doesn't mean the Phillies are better, it means the Yankees would have won playing some of the worst baseball a Yankees ws team that won has ever played.
Neither team is playing world championship calliber baseball that is the point. .235 AVG, 4:00 ERA and a 329 foot home run those are the stats for the team that is supposed to be the greatest of all-time. Those numbers are not impressive.
The Celtics beat the Lakers, one of the greatest franchises ever, 131-92 to win the title.
That is impressive.
If the Yankees beat the Phillies, who up until 2008 were one of the least winning franchises of all-time, with a .235 AVG, 4:00 ERA and a 329 foot home run it isn't impressive.
Beat a team by putting up numbers and playing some of your best baseball. Don't beat a team by setting records with some of the lowest numbers ever, because if you do it proves the series came down to inches and close calls, not one franchise and one team supposedly being superior and on a much higher level.
Gotta admit I'm a recent Phillies convert – sorry, born & raised in Michigan. Still, I've become quite a fan in the past couple of years – in fact, the Phils have rekindled my interest in MLB. Couple of comments. First – while it was certainly unfortunate for Hamels to make the comment about getting the season over with, I think I understand where he's coming from. Are there any older fans out there that remember when the October Classic was actually played in October? Early October for that matter. The MLB season is exceptionally long and grueling – and seems to be far more a matter of how much money can be generated than any sporting consideration. These guys (both sides) have been at it since February – they're tired! There aren't many off days in MLB – and while the money sure is nice – I imagine the traveling and the grueling 162 game schedule wear you down after awhile. Still, sometimes it's better to keep your thoughts to yourself.
Second – I confess I don't have that much faith in Charley Manuel's hunches. Pulling Pedro in the NLCS arguably forced the Phils to play an extra game. Pulling Pedro in New York also seemed a dubious choice – he gave up one bizarre homer to Matsui (I mean – no one swings at a ball that low!) – but he still seemed to have his stuff, and I think it demoralizes a team to have a star pitcher pulled when he's still throwing good stuff. Then – I agree with many of you that Lee should have started last night. Even if things don't go well – at least you've potentially got him available again for a game 7, if needed. Now – if it goes to 7 – who gets the call? Hamels? Well – you gotta wonder if his heart is in it.
In the end though, I think the bats have to wake up. Werth and Utley have certainly earned their keep – but too many bats have gone quiet to beat the Yankees. Let's hope the fire gets kindled today, and the bats wake up in support of Lee – and at least get us back to NY. Then – we'll just have to take it one game at a time!
3peat You keep saying the Yankees are better than the Phillies. Duh. We know that. The Yankees have 26 titles and the Phillies have 2. The Yankees won those 26 titles by hitting big and playing dominant.
Now they are winning like the Mets. Hitting .235 and looking to cameras and silly ground rules to win games.
Gee whiz even the 1969 Mets hit .242., get your batting average up if you are supposed to be the greatest team of all-time.
welcome Brad B. – ready for the rollercoaster ride tonight?
3peat if you want to go on other teams sites and talk about how great the Yankees are, hit over .235 and hit the ball over the fence next time. You think Mantle, Joe D, Gehrig, Ruth & Reggie hit .235 and hit cameras? No.
Sorry fans, we will lose tonight. The big guys just aren't producing. I should've put Cliff in last night but I got so scared and now we are down 3-1. Maybe next year. As for this year the Yankees are the WFC!
Mike Schmidt you ought to go on comcast sports night with the low life Mike Barcan….or Beer can….he's always throwing out those losing can't do a thing about it "stats" …I'll bet the those cameras were bought by the Yankees …yeah I'll bet they did that ….and batting average hmmmm ya better look at yours young fella ….I'm trying to count up how many HR's Cryin Howard has…..hmmmm can you say O or maybe ZIP….or NADDA….hmmm….I-buy-pez aka the FOOL…I meant Raulllllll…haven't heard that chant lately……maybe tonight ….hey either way it's over …the parade will be in the greatest city in the world NEW YORK CITY….you might get lucky and get something going tonight,,,,but ya gotta go to the BRONX if you have any chance ….there's a guy there you could talk to his name is SLIM as in SLIM-2-NUN….hey the trash is in the bag ….we'll tell you when you're going to the curb….hey somebody get Mike Schmidt a tissue…….
I'm a Red Sox fan rooting for the Phillies like I'm from Philly…here are my questions as an outsider: why were they in the shift? have they been doing that all series? I have been watching but do not recall them being in the shift for Texerira…why was Lidge in the game? they had the pitcher's spot coming up in the b 9th so he was going to be 1 and done…seems like Madson could have gone another inning and then you had Lidge in the holster if necessary; and for more than 1 IP to boot…why did he abandon his slider? I know the threat of a WP was there, but he was throwing it with authority and Ruiz is really good…on another note I really think this series turned on the Werth pick off in game 2…that being said, the Phillies could still could have won this series if they had won last night…every Yankee pitcher is now on short rest and CC was beatable last night…in the end the Yankee war/cash machine is winning, only they have a 25m player at virtually every position…still only Rivera can be used, their BP sux…Phils are blowing it for all of us…
"Phillies in 5" – Jimmy Rollings. LMAO what a joke. Next time keep ur mouth shut and let the bats do the talking moron lol. Go Yankees!
cash is king should be the Yankee motto…will all th yankee cash it is embarrassing that they have not won since 2000
Spanky I'm from New York stupid. Lived in NYC for 35 years. The camera was 329 feet from home plate. Hit a real home run and be a man.
Hit over .235 and be a man. When you hit a HR make sure it goes more than 330 feet, not less. Until that happens stay on your own site and make your own stupid comments.
the phillies are not quitters = although i must admit i quit on them. who knows. let's just win this one and worry about gm6 on wednesday.
as far as a 2nd rate city – no way. i know SpankyYankee proably doesnot remember what a championship parade looks like. last yr – we had well over a million – nearly a million and 1/2 fans at last yrs parade. yes there were some idiots, but i'd say we were classy caring & appreciative fans…
if you look up 2nd rate – you will not see classy, caring or appreciate in their definition.
if we win this gm and lose one of the next 2.. the phillies are not quitters.
i think they shown alot of people especially themselves they are not quitters.. no matter what the results of the series ends up being.
there will be only 1 'WFC' & 1 ' the team to beat' & those honors reside in philadelphia
yes… & if the NYY win the w/s, they will be only 'WC" – never 'WFC"
Question for you baseball gurus out there:
After the phils win game 6 wed night (I have the utmost confidence that Pedro will help pull this off), who do you think should get the ball in game 7? Should it be Happ or Hamels? What do you folks think about Moyer instead of Hamels if manuel does not choose to start Happ? I know Moyer isn't overpowering with his stuff but I kind of like him as a starter. Any thoughts?
Moyers is recovering from surgery, so he is on the roster. I like Happ as a starter. But I don't think Manuel trusts that he has the mental strength and experience to pitch a "must win" 7th game. Hamels is one of my favorite players, but he is struggling and mentally defeated. Blanton pitched very well last game, but is not the type of pitcher to shut down a team. So, expect him to give up 3-4 runs. He does well, but needs run support from the offense.
It is going to be a tough decision!
Oops… I meant to type that Moyers is "not on the roster."
Geez, I didnt know that he had surgery! Oops….and I call myself a phillies fan LOL….Seriously though, when did this occur? The last i heard about him was when he was upset being moved into the 'pen during the regular season to make room for Pedro. Oh well, my mistake. I really like moyer though….wild yes, not overpowering….yes. Hamels, in my opinion, has a bad attiude. The game where he shot utley? a nasty look when he goofed the play comes to mind. I cannnot remember if it was against the rockies or dodgers. When he is on, he's on and when he is off, he's horrible. I'm going to go out on a limb here with this comment, but I like Lidge as well. He has good stuff but his control has been his demon the whole darn season. The way I look at it is, I cannnot go out and throw a 95 mph fastball….I cannot through a slider so who am I to say that this pitcher or that pitcher is terrible? The lack of control and location seems to plague all of the philly pitchers. This fact, notwithstanding, Im still supporting them 100%. If the yanks pull it off, kudos to them. However, I love the phils and hope they can do it. This gets back to game 7 pitching…the phils need a good, sharp pitcher. Obviously they have the power. Its only a matter of time before howard werth and ruiz snap their temporary "slump" Ibanez is finally coming around. They are all due and when they finally start hitting, they need the pitching to keep it all in check. Hamels has been tenuous at best. I agree, Happ is young and inexperienced, but he has good stuff. Its going to be interesting to see how this all plays out.