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Batteries again!
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Topic: Batteries again! (Read 8648 times)
Batteries again!
January 03, 2009, 08:12:21 PM »
On the way to Arcadia, my low voltage light suddenly came on but only after I had turned on my running lights. When I turned them off, the light went out. All was good until going home. On the way home, no lights on and about 45 minutes into the drive, the low voltage light re-appeared briefly and then when almost home it stayed on. Not only that, the trans would not shift the way it was supposed to. It shifted Up, Down, Up, Down, while accelerating! I contribute that to, again, low voltage!
Made it home and checked the voltage in each battery and then on the 24v leg of all 4. Each battery was 12.5 and 12.6 and across the 24 leg it read 24.6. Not high enough so I figure I will get new batteries today which I did! When they checked the old ones, they found that they were very dead and with a rating of 950 cca, they had roughly 30. So, they exchanged them with a whole fresh batch all from the same date code.
Now I put the new batteries in and check the voltage on each one prior to hooking them up. Each one read 12.5 and 12.6 (2 each had same reading) and I contribute that to sitting on the shelf. After hooking them up and starting the engine, I re-check the voltages. SAME as before! I turn on some lights like running lights and bay doors open and the voltage dropped a point! 12.4 and 12.5.
I went and looked at the voltage regulator and found that sometime prior to my purchase it has been replaced. It's a delco-remy 24 volt adjustable regulator model number 1118447. I tried turning it up a bit but it made no difference! I suspect the regulator is not doing a good job. I hope it's not the alternator but if it is, I will change to less expensive Leece-Neville at that time!
Any thoughts?
Can someone explain in detail how to check the regulator other than what I have already done?
Does anyone have a source for this regulator?
Last Edit: January 03, 2009, 08:15:32 PM by Blacksheep
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Re: Batteries again!
Reply #1 on:
January 04, 2009, 05:47:11 AM »
To test alternator
Engine stopped; Master off.
Remove wire "F1" off the "FLD" terminal on the alternator. Meter the resistance of the "FLD" terminal. It should meter 3 to 5 ohms of resistance.
Open....Change out the alternator (Open field circuit)
Shorted....Change out the alternator and the voltage regulator. (Cooked field circuit due to regulator)
Yes....Field circuit is OK but the next step with the Engine stopped; Master off; Main disconnect on.
Remove wire "R1" off the relay terminal on the alternator. Meter the voltage of relay terminal. It should be less than 1.5 volts. The less the better.
Yes....Means diode is OK
No....Means one or more diodes is shorted. Change out the alternator.
Load test for winding and/or open diode test. Engine running; A jumper between "F1" (off the "FLD" terminal on the alternator) to DC positive terminal on alternator.
Caution never leave it connect more than 15 seconds or you can over heat the field and the main winding.
It should meter over 30 volts on 24 volts system or half of that on 12 volts system.
Yes....Means it OK
No....Means Change out the alternator.
I do not have a Prevost manual to follow their schematic for more information about what with the relays before regulator.
Sojourn for Christ, Gerald
Delcotron 50 DN Alternator Service Bulletin
Last Edit: January 04, 2009, 05:53:21 AM by Sojourner
Ps 28 Blessed be the LORD, because he hath heard the voice of my supplications. The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusted in him, and I am helped: therefore my heart greatly rejoiceth; and with my song will I praise him
Re: Batteries again!
Reply #2 on:
January 04, 2009, 06:14:15 AM »
Jerry, thanks for the information and I should have stated that I already had the delco site you provided. What I didn't see on the site was a pdf info sheet for the regulator. I saw sheets for internal regulators buit not external.
Thanks again...
Example is more powerful than reproach. ~Aesop
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Re: Batteries again!
Reply #3 on:
January 04, 2009, 08:24:41 AM »
Ace, I'm sure you have a link to the Prevost Maintenance site, they have drawings online for every Prevost made you can download any drawing you need if you have a customer number........! The customer number is free.......just use your vin number and apply, I've found lots of information there!
1982 Prevost LeMirage
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Re: Batteries again!
Reply #4 on:
January 04, 2009, 08:29:53 AM »
Ace, a good truck parts house should be able to get you a regulator, maybe a NAPA store?- if it's bad.
I buy 'em from my rebuilder,MCI,or Prevost Parts.
Gotta make sure that there is 24v at regulator (POS) or (BAT), waiting to be delivered to the Field terminal of your alternator. Make sure there is a good ground too (NEG), if you have that terminal on your regulator.
Might have a relay that controls voltage to regulator.......
Send me the 10th digit and last 4 digits of your VIN, I'll check schematics for you.
Re: Batteries again!
Reply #5 on:
January 04, 2009, 08:46:11 AM »
Muddog yes I'm aware of all that but not sure if I need to go that route just yet. Still diagnosing actuall items before I get into wiring!
Sammy the 10th digit is "N" and the last 4 numbers are: 1232
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'85 Neoplan Spaceliner "Odyssey"
Re: Batteries again!
Reply #6 on:
January 04, 2009, 09:06:04 AM »
Do you have a battery isolator in your coach? If so, carefully check to see where the sense lead from the regulator has been routed. It needs to be on the + terminal of the coach batteries for proper operation when under way.
Full-timing in a 1985 Neoplan Spaceliner since 2004.
Our blog:
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Re: Batteries again!
Reply #7 on:
January 04, 2009, 09:35:59 AM »
Ace,make sure there is 24 volts at the BAT terminal on your voltage regulator with bus running. IF NOT - your coach has a Field Relay - R3. It is supposed to be located in the rear junction box.You need to make sure has 24v on Term 87 of R3.That's battery voltage
to go to the BAT terminal of your voltage regulator.
You should also make sure that field relay R3 is being energized (24v) on Term 86 and there is a good ground on Term 85.
Disconnect BAT wire from voltage regulator(with bus shut off), check continuity from that end of wire to Term 30 of R3.
Here's the diagram.........
My diagrams start with P300, so I went online too. Hope this may help you with your troubleshooting.
Last Edit: January 04, 2009, 09:46:43 AM by Sammy
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Re: Batteries again!
Reply #8 on:
January 04, 2009, 02:03:13 PM »
There you go....Ace!
Thanks for all you but nuts servant to make it possible for Ace getting lending hand of lean suggests. You all help me to try to be on top of anything I have no information on. And I do Thank you.
Muddog16s suggestion about we need VIN number to get online technical information.
Sean's suggestion is important...can be incorrectly connect wrong by previous owner.
Sammy suggestion is very important about R3 (NC) to be de-energize so it complete the circuit for 24v power to regulator. And it could have bad contact points in relay.
Sammy sends the drawing of most of the H-40 chassis wiring schematic. Very helpful indeed.
Sojourn for Christ, Gerald
BTW If you ever need to replace that old old old fashion voltage regulator, get the new solid state voltage regulator. All new buses with Delcotron 50-DN alternator are using the new state of art regulator. Part number is 10503805 or model 19020411 for 24v version.
They cost about $200 but I paid $17.97 on E-B at Buy-now with free shipping. He out of them now but if you ask them when more will come in or never? ?
10503805 Solid State V. Regulator
Another BTW about changing to smaller alternator from 270 amp version. Make sure your aware that whatever inverter you are using while traveling or fast idling, that it can be capable handle all your 24v or 12v needs without being at it alternator outputs limit so it would not break down too quickly. It much more reliable to have the reserve capacity of 20% or 30% over your common heavy charging demand.
After all about getting good use alternator at salvage/recycle store a common class 8 truck use smaller alternator, never use as must current load as motorhome with 2 or more A/C and charging house-battery from over night used.
Also having power loss to turn the large 270 ampere alternator is about equal with other HD lower ampere such as 160 amp air cool version. In other words, if both were charging 160 amp the power requirement is about equal. Belt drive requires more power than gear drive while charging at 160 amps.
Ps 28 Blessed be the LORD, because he hath heard the voice of my supplications. The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusted in him, and I am helped: therefore my heart greatly rejoiceth; and with my song will I praise him
Re: Batteries again!
Reply #9 on:
January 04, 2009, 03:03:45 PM »
Thank you everyone for the replies to the problem which I might add is NO MORE! HOORAY!!!!!
Sammy, I think you for taking the time to find and send me the diagram. Here is what I did! Since my laptop is not presently hooked up to my printer, I copied the information and detailed instructions and sent it to my email which I received on my blackberry. I took the phone out to the bus and proceeded from there. When I started the bus, nothing had changed from this morning. I then went to step one and checked for voltage at the regulator. NONE! I then went and located the field relay which on my bus was numbered R3 just like Sammy and the diagram said. It was easy as it was the first in line! I checked the voltage there and found I had 24 volts present. Before I got into checking continuity on the wire from the regulator to the relay, I decided to just try a spare relay I had that was taken out of a slot that I know I didn't use. After replacing the relay, I started the bus and both 12v and 24 v gauges on the dash PEGGED. I shut the bus down and went and decreased the adjustment on the regulator which was ALL the way maxed out. I DID adjust that yesterday but only about the thickness of a screwdriver and didn't realize it was as far as it could go. Anyway, after decreasing the adjustment, the dash gauges read normal so I went and checked voltage directly on the batteries but first I turned on headlights and I already had some bay doors open with bay lights on. The batteries checked out with 25.9 volts across the 24 leg and 12.9 on each battery individually. I decreased the regulator even a tad bit more to where the reading is 25.6 and 12.7. I turned the lights off, no change! I turned them on again and they even seem to be much brighter. After shutting the engine OFF, turning all lights OFF, shutting all bay doors, the batteries seem to be fully charged and holding steady at 25.5!
I know this may not be the correct way in fixing a problem but it IS fixed for now anyway!
Ace... FULLY CHARGED!!!!!!!
Re: Batteries again!
Reply #10 on:
January 05, 2009, 06:22:25 AM »
Last night I usually plug in my on board battery charger/maintainer but purposely neglected to do so just to see if the batteries would drain down overnight like they normally do. To my surprise, when I checked the voltage this morning with engine not running, no lights on, the batteries actually stayed charged. There was a slight change from the 25.6 when I put it to bed to 25.7 this morning.
My next question is this. Could a relay which is the only thing I changed, be bad, with a possible short, and cause a steady drain on the batteries?
What a difference charged batteries make with lighting! I didn't think my new LED's could get brighter!
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Re: Batteries again!
Reply #11 on:
January 05, 2009, 02:17:01 PM »
Ace, happy to help. Sounds like your bus was not charging because R3 was not energizing properly across the coil side,or contacts were not closing to allow 24v to get to your volatge regulator.Doesn't sound like a short circuit.
I would recommend to set the charging rate to at least 27.2v on the 24 volt side and 13.8v on the 12v side. To do this properly you need to start your bus,put it on "fast idle" and put a "load" on your factory charging system. When I put a load on a system I turn on interior and exterior lights and the HVAC system.
I then make very small adjustments to the voltage regulator while checking voltage on 24v side and then the 12v side.
After adjustment is made, shut off load,turn off fast idle ,keep engine running and make sure charging rate is still good.I have had excellent results with this method on many
Last Edit: January 05, 2009, 02:21:42 PM by Sammy
Re: Batteries again!
Reply #12 on:
January 05, 2009, 03:11:15 PM »
Sammy thanks again! Let me explain the reason why I set the voltage like I did. First off, the manual states to set it as you said but that was for a seated coach with many more accessories than what I have NOW! In other words I don't have the bathroom fixtures, isle lighting, seat lights, map lights, step lights, fans, blowers and HVAC. It all has been either removed or completely disconnected. Only lighting I have that is original is head lights, (low and high beam) running lights front side and rear and the rear engine cover lights have been changed to LED's. All the bay lights are still operative as are the dash lights and gauges. So as you can see, I didn't see the need to have the batteries be charged at the higher rate. I may be wrong and correct me if so! As it was, I was afraid to run in the dark because the head lights never looked bright. My friend has an identical coach that he too converted and when he checked his voltage sitting idle with nothing on and engine off, it was 25.6v. If you think the coach charging rate still needs to be set higher, please explain why and I will pass the info on to my friend as well!
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1965 MC-5a
Re: Batteries again!
Reply #13 on:
January 05, 2009, 03:39:37 PM »
Didn't you say you put in new batteries? Could that be the reason they hold a charge better?
You don't have to believe everything you think.
Re: Batteries again!
Reply #14 on:
January 05, 2009, 04:16:14 PM »
Lin it seems I always have had new batteries. It appears that I was the dumb one in thinking it was always the batteries and kept replacing them, hence always new! After about a year things would always go the way they recently did with the exception of the warning light and the shifting problem! I thought I would finally go after what was causing me to think the batteries were bad by starting with 4 fresh ones and when they showed a no charge situation it was time to look deeper!
I really feel the culprit has been found and fixed. And byu the way, after sitting over 24 hours there has been NO drainage at all. I'm still curious to know if a bad relay would cause the batteries to drain like they were because before, by now, the bus would not start and the new batteries would be dead! I haven't changed anything but the R-3 relay.
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Re: Batteries again!
Reply #15 on:
January 05, 2009, 04:20:16 PM »
Quote from: Sammy on January 05, 2009, 02:17:01 PM
I have had excellent results with this method on many
I cannot tell you if your friend's method is correct or not. I have
experience with converted coaches.
I'd be very interested to find out if there is a different charging rate for converted coaches too.
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Posts: 392
Mikes Metal Mistress
Re: Batteries again!
Reply #16 on:
January 05, 2009, 04:49:38 PM »
Check the website below for basic charging voltages of lead acid cells. The minimum charging voltage is as Sammy stated 13.8V or 2X that which is 27.6V for a 24V system.
The charging voltage is a function of the battery chemistry and what is required to keep the battery cells charged correctly. The load that the battery sees is more linked to how long the battery will last ie charging cycles and how deep the battery is discharged before requiring charge. This is a very simplified explanation and probably does not accurately reflect the whole story however if you search the web for charging lead acid batteries you will find lots of info to help you determine the correct charging voltage for your application..
It is my opinion that you should follow the MCI manual recommendations however opinions are like #$%^& everyone comes with one and you need to separate the wheat from the chaff.
Regards and Happy bussin.... mike
Mike Lutestanski Dunnellon Florida
L10 Cummins B400R 4.625R
Re: Batteries again!
Reply #17 on:
January 05, 2009, 04:51:43 PM »
Sorry Sammy I forgot to mention that both his and my bus started out as seated coaches and we both self converted them. Not sure if this makes a difference but now I hope its clearer!
Re: Batteries again!
Reply #18 on:
January 05, 2009, 05:10:11 PM »
Sammy I have a converted H-45 VIP chassis and the voltage on it is set at 27.5 volts
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Re: Batteries again!
Reply #19 on:
January 05, 2009, 05:22:57 PM »
David, thanks for charging info on your coach.
Jesus Love You!
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Re: Batteries again!
Reply #20 on:
January 05, 2009, 05:27:34 PM »
About charging rate for either seated coach or motorhome it makes no difference what so ever
except for nearly steady 24/7 or stop to rest a few days or weeks then go
. A car to gigantic earth mover use exactly same voltage setting for its design battery. Only difference is if you are using other than wet cell battery design such as gelled, and AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat). They have their own charging voltage setting.
Ace just go for the coach recommends setting for standard battery (wet cell). It usually 14.7v @ 70°F for 12v wet cell with head light and heater motor on. Double the voltage for 24v system.
However for very warm climate, setting should be at least 28.5v for 24v system
Sojourn for Christ, Gerald
Last Edit: January 05, 2009, 08:43:33 PM by Sojourner
Ps 28 Blessed be the LORD, because he hath heard the voice of my supplications. The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusted in him, and I am helped: therefore my heart greatly rejoiceth; and with my song will I praise him
Re: Batteries again!
Reply #21 on:
January 05, 2009, 05:51:54 PM »
Gerald, if you double the 12v for 24v that would be 29.4 volts are you sure about that formula my Prevost manuals states 27.5 for both the seated and conversion shell . good luck
Re: Batteries again!
Reply #22 on:
January 05, 2009, 05:55:19 PM »
The power stream site was very informative and I thank you for posting it. I now understand charging just a little better and will make the necessary adjustments to get my charging voltage up to 27.6 across the 24 volt leg or 13.8 for each battery. Right now if I calculate correctly, I'm set somewhere around 12.8 per battery which makes my 24v leg exactly what is reads 25.7.
Now is all I have to do is slightly adjust my voltage regulator? I know it doesn't take much to move it a lot! AND I should turn every possible item on that would load the system? Is this correct? My concern with setting it at a higher rate when loaded was that when I ran with no lights and no fans, a/c, blowers etc., that it would overcharge! I assume I was wrong in my theory?
Jesus Love You!
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Re: Batteries again!
Reply #23 on:
January 05, 2009, 08:35:29 PM »
Thank you for asking luvrbus.
Battery gets less sulfating if you charge at high end of adjustable setting.
The lower the setting the thicker the sulfate coating in time.
Charging the lead-acid battery
MCI call for 28 volts @ 80°F is for 24hrs day uses. Very little cranking cycle per passenger miles.
However, for us motorhome uses higher setting is better at 29.4v @ 70°F (alternator & regulator temperature). You may use little more water in battery but it keeps it more alive and last as long or longer however, if you can desulfate the batteries .you will get even more life still.
All electronic devices, blower motor, headlight and miniature bulb are factory design to be a least 15v for 12v and 30v for 24v system.
This one of the common reason for the 8D batteries that came with from charter companies for bus conversion is very weak to say the least. Voltage setting is too low for bus nuts purposes.
Do can do what you want to set it at whatever. It your money and time for the long run.
Car & light & medium truck of today are set at the middle range.
Ace Now that I was thinking why you said that? you are right about bus being use passenger and motorhome, have difference voltage setting. Only because it not running nearly 24hrs every day and never stay warmed you need to set higher then their spec our uses. Set it at least 28.5 for warm climate to 29.4 volts @ 80°F for cold climate with a load on such as bright headlights and front heater motor on.
Sorry for confusion but after seeing many bus nuts post about the hard starting with old 8Ds in mild cold day that it starter barely cranks the DD fast enough to raise the combustion temperature high enough (at least 700°F) to ignites. So I am learning that buses manufacturing is spec for low voltage setting, we need to increase it to be in our style of uses.
BTW High end charger is set 15.5v for 12v and 31v for 24v battery.
Quote from: luvrbus on January 05, 2009, 05:51:54 PM
Gerald, if you double the 12v for 24v that would be 29.4 volts are you sure about that formula my Prevost manuals states 27.5 for both the seated and conversion shell . good luck
Ps 28 Blessed be the LORD, because he hath heard the voice of my supplications. The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusted in him, and I am helped: therefore my heart greatly rejoiceth; and with my song will I praise him
Jesus Love You!
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Re: Batteries again!
Reply #24 on:
January 05, 2009, 08:56:44 PM »
Ace...about the load require before adjusting....you only need partial load to stabilize and heat-up alternator's windings for repeatable adjusted setting, such as bright headlight and front heater blower on and run at least 15 minutes before adjusting. For your case, adjust to 28.5 v.
Caution...always adjust from low & up to 28.5v...not from the higher voltage down to 28.5v.
Otherwise you will not get repeated voltage setting.
Sojourn for Christ, Gerald
Ps 28 Blessed be the LORD, because he hath heard the voice of my supplications. The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusted in him, and I am helped: therefore my heart greatly rejoiceth; and with my song will I praise him
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Re: Batteries again!
Reply #25 on:
January 06, 2009, 02:01:21 AM »
I beg to differ with all the recommendations - You should set the charge rate at what the battery manufacturer states - A battery doesn't know if its in a GM, MCI or Prevost - Bus manufacturer's give spec's on Batts that are FACTORY installed, not after market - In this case when you go by "Da Book" it's the "Battery Book" - HTH
- Niles
Busted Knuckle
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Re: Batteries again!
Reply #26 on:
January 06, 2009, 08:33:27 AM »
Ace I ain't positive on this, but if the relay was sticking on and closing (completing) a circuit even with "everything supposed to be off" could have been back feeding thru the alternator and draining the battery!
I used to have the same problem on my derby cars where if I left the battery hooked up it would be dead in no time (3-4hrs)! Then friend rewired my alternator for me (told me I had the field permanently energized or something like that! And after he did whatever it was only on when the engine was running.) and after that I could leave the battery hooked up for weeks at a time and it'd always be fully charged! (I was the only idiot in this area who used an 8D battery in my derby car, but I always had plenty of recranking power no matter hot hot the engine got! LOL)
Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to!
(at least thats what momma always told me!
Re: Batteries again!
Reply #27 on:
January 06, 2009, 06:00:20 PM »
Jerry, thanks for the very informative site. I have been reading about batteries now for two days and I feel like I'm sort of charged up myself.
Niles, as far as setting the charge rate according to the battery mfgr rather than the bus mfgr, where would someone find this information? I have looked at the label on the batteries but it really doesn't say but reading the charts and info provided by others, it says charging the batteries at a higher rate will ultimately make the batteries last longer (I think). Charging them at a lower rate will cause them to go weak or dead faster (again, I think)
Now I also read someplace that you should check the battery temperature while charging. Is that the battery case? Do you check it with a digital temp gun?
Today the batteries read 25.5-6, down from 25.6-7 when I installed them. Nothing started and nothing on!
Bk, not sure what your saying but what I do know is the relay made everything work like it should. Why? Your guess is as good as mine! I was thinking of carefully cutting it open to see what shows on the inside and maybe that would tell me (us) more!
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Re: Batteries again!
Reply #28 on:
January 06, 2009, 09:38:59 PM »
Ace - post the battery info and I'll try and find it for you - HTH
- Niles
Jesus Love You!
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Re: Batteries again!
Reply #29 on:
January 06, 2009, 11:56:21 PM »
Ace...about battery temperature is the electrolyte however, you can use your IR gun to measure cell # 3 or # 4 cases side at about 1 ½ inch from the top or into the water level.
STATE-OF-CHARGE (SoC) TABLE"
Deg. F column is Electrolyte Temperature
All reading for Wet "Mainteneance Free" (Ca/Ca) or AGM/Gel Cell VRLA (Ca/Ca) Battery
Open Circuit Voltage Reading
Deg F 100% 75% 50% 25% 0%
SoC SoC SoC SoC SoC
120 12.813 12.613 12.413 12.013 11.813
110 12.811 12.611 12.411 12.011 11.811
100 12.808 12.608 12.408 12.008 11.808
90 12.805 12.605 12.405 12.005 11.805
80 12.800 12.600 12.400 12.000 11.800
70 12.793 12.593 12.393 11.993 11.793
60 12.784 12.584 12.384 11.984 11.784
50 12.772 12.572 12.372 11.972 11.772
40 12.756 12.556 12.356 11.956 11.756
30 12.738 12.538 12.338 11.938 11.738
20 12.716 12.516 12.316 11.916 11.716
10 12.692 12.492 12.292 11.892 11.692
0 12.666 12.466 12.266 11.866 11.666
niles500...all electrolyte batteries are same voltage per percentage of state of charge per given degree in Fahrenheit
Charging voltage is base on type of battery, type of used and type of driving and storage temperature and length of time storage.
Sojourn for Christ, Gerald
Ps 28 Blessed be the LORD, because he hath heard the voice of my supplications. The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusted in him, and I am helped: therefore my heart greatly rejoiceth; and with my song will I praise him
Re: Batteries again!
Reply #30 on:
January 07, 2009, 03:39:04 AM »
You fellows charge your batteries at what voltage you like but I will follow the bus manufactures recommendation there is a purpose for it they did not dream it 30 volts may work for a battery charger with the batteries disconnected but no way would I set my regulator for 30 volts for a 24 volt system or above 13.8 for the 12 volt system
Last Edit: January 07, 2009, 04:09:27 AM by VanTare
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Re: Batteries again!
Reply #31 on:
January 07, 2009, 02:58:14 PM »
From Home Power:
The maximum recommended rate is C/5 (a charge rate in amps of one-fifth the overall battery capacity in amp-hours), but only when the cells are between 10 and 85 percent state of charge (SOC). After the cells reach 85 percent SOC, then a C/10 is the maximum. After cells reach 95 percent SOC, between C/20 and C/15 is recommended. Having said this, I rarely charge faster than a C/10.
The reason for the maximums is heat. Higher amperage means more heat, particularly when the cells are getting fully recharged. Thermal cycling wears the plates and sloughs off material.
Finally, its always a good idea to get charging specifications from the manufacturer of the particular model of battery youre running. Battery specific charge rates, and bulk, absorption, float and equalization set-points and times will all lead to better battery longevity.
Richard Perez Home Power
I have never seen a respected Battery "expert" that didn't refer you back to the MFR - Why? - because they've already done the math on each of their Batts - Below is a link to the math - HTH
- Niles
Posts: 49
Re: Batteries again!
Reply #32 on:
January 07, 2009, 03:29:46 PM »
I know this horse has been beat to death but wouldn't this (I have this one now) be the best way or one of the best ways to get the right charge and charge rate? Those all in one inverters are cool but if one of the functions go bad you loose all of it's functions while being repaired. They however do not like a bad power source.
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Posts: 280
Re: Batteries again!
Reply #33 on:
January 08, 2009, 02:57:35 AM »
i've noticed you still have yet to get the answer to your question if a bad relay can cause batteries to die...yes it can.
one of the relays that goes to my WVO system was stuck open (and i didnt know it), and was draining my batteries. we were on tour and we had to literally get jump started every morning. eventually we began to piece things together and one of the other guys who is more mechanically inclined than i am, figured out that the relay was stuck open, and was the cause of the problem.
now all the specifics, the hows and whys i have no idea, all i know is that is what caused it for me.
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text:
f Effects of silver sulphadiazine on the production of exoproteins by Staphylococcus aureus
- Authors: VALERIE EDWARDS-JONES, H.A. FOSTER1
Affiliations: 1 Department of Biological Sciences, Manchester Metropolitan University, Chester Street, Manchester M1 5GD and *Division of Biological Sciences, School of Environment and Life Sciences, University of Salford, The Crescent, Salford, Lancs M5 4WT
- Corresponding author: Dr H. A. Foster (e-mail: firstname.lastname@example.com).
- J. Med. Microbiol., January 2002 51: 50-55, doi: 10.1099/0022-1317-51-1-50
- Subject: Antimicrobial Agents
- Published Online:
Effects of silver sulphadiazine on the production of exoproteins by Staphylococcus aureus, Page 1 of 1< Previous page | Next page > /docserver/preview/fulltext/jmm/51/1/mjm5101.50-1.gif
The effects of subinhibitory concentrations of silver sulphadiazine (AgSD) on exoprotein production in Staphylococcus aureus strains T1, T4, RN4282 and RN 4282agr were studied. AgSD markedly increased levels of toxic shock syndrome toxin (TSST)-1 in strains T4 and RN4282. This effect was independent of agr and AgSD restored TSST-1 production to the wild-type level in RN 4282agr. AgSD had no effect on enterotoxin A or coagulase activity in strains T1 or T4. Strain T4 produced enterotoxin C at high levels and no effect was observed with AgSD. AgSD repressed metalloprotease production in strain T4 but the overall protease activity remained the same. No change in proteolytic activities was seen in strain T1 with AgSD. Molecular mechanisms for these observations are discussed.
Received 14 April 2000; revised version received 10 July 2001; accepted 14 July 2001.
© 2002 Society for General Microbiology | Published by the Microbiology Society
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subset: commoncrawl


text:
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POSITION SUMMARY The Calabrio Implementation Services (CIS) Technical Project Manager (PM) leads, coordinates and monitors all key activities/projects from initiation through delivery. A Technical Project Manager will be able to be given minimal direction and work independently,10/10/2016 Minneapolis, MN Save This Job
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Project Manager - New York, NY The Position: Reporting to the VP of Project Management, this role is responsible for delivering projects for individual clients and content partners. Responsibilities Work with Alacra sales, clients and content partners to document business9/12/2016 New York, NY Save This Job


text:
The first leg to North Harbour became a search for wind on the water with yachts dispersing all over the area between Dobroyd and North Head. A couple of yachts in Division #1 picked the zephyrs better and made good distance on the rest. In Division #2 it was the light weight yachts who fared best in the under 5 knots of breeze.
At the North Harbour mark it was a very slow rounding with kites up for the run / drift back to Lady Bay. In division #2, 2Xcess had rounded the mark 4 minutes in front of Coconut Express with a further 18 minutes to the third yacht.
The run was to prove that Hughie had risen to higher level of teasing that experienced this Winter Series. There were lots of kites hanging from the mast to the water. All sorts of angles used just to try and get some forward motion. Kerisma had gained an unassailable lead on Division #1 and it was with great relief that we notice that having rounded Lady Bay she was heading home under motor.
As the fleet drifted across the heads Hughie fired off his next barb by calling up some wind for the rest of the fleet to be able to run down the front markers. In 2Xcess's case, the lead of 23 minutes turned into a third place across the line with a great final run the new yacht in the fleet Ten8cous stole the win.
In Division 3, Heart of gold and Innamincka drifted fastest on the day. The rest of the fleet came well behind - remarkably only separated by 5 minutes when you consider that Wildfire is a J24, Twitcher sails non spinnaker, Bacchus caries a conventional kite and In The Red sports an asymmetrical.
Go Figure !! For the rest of the fleet it was a run home with a present breeze.
Result IRC & PHS:
IRC Fleet: Kerisma - Grant Dawson & Brent Lawson, Nine Dragons - Bob Cox, MRZ – Phillip Rowe
Division 1: Kerisma - Grant Dawson & Brent Lawson, Nine Dragons - Bob Cox, MRZ – Phillip Rowe
Division 2: Ten8ious – Matthew Jessup, Jessica Rabbit – Bruce Millar, Merlin – John Lehmann
Division 3: Heart of Gold – Geoff Charters, Innamincka – John Crawford, Bacchus – Bob Bennett & Gary Akehurst
Full results here
To enter contact; Andrew Phillips in the MHYC Sailing Office on 9969 1244 (Tuesday to Saturday)
Sydney City Marine – Rob McGrath, Customer Sales Manager – Elite Yachting - 0405 260 986 here


text:
The Sliding Door CompanyShared publicly -
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text:
Welcome to your virtual tour of Victory Primary School. We are a multi cultural, community based school at the heart of the Victory community in central Nelson.
We hope you enjoy looking through the blogs to see the wonderful work our tamariki do. Please also visit the Victory Community Centre page to view the great variety of events that occur there.
Helen Taylor-Young, Principal
Link to our latest ERO Report or download here.
Positive Behaviour for Learning - PB4L
Positive Behaviour for Learning provides a framework to develop a positive school climate, and to create a supportive environment for personal, social, and academic growth for students and staff. In other words, the school-wide plan is essentially an instrument to enable the goals of the school to be achieved, especially the goals of student achievement. Read more here.
The Victory Primary School Kapa Haka group performed on Stage One at the Nelson Arts Festival.
Victory says Kia Toa!
This is the latest video from our Kia Toa programme (PB4L). Check out the other videos here.
The latest from our class blogs. Click on the links to read more.


text:
Illusionist Blagg brings magic to Marcus Center
Kenosha illusionist Bill Blagg, who has appeared everywhere from NBC to BET, will bring his 21st Century style of magic to the Marcus Center for the Performing Arts Vogel Hall April 12-14.
Blagg is known for his unconventional mix of comedy and illusion, bringing ordinary objects to life and melting through solid steel. »Read Full Article
In Tandem Theatre moves back to funny, perceptive 'Apartment 3A'
Can one argue that really great sex proves the existence of God? Can a play in which a woman verbally counts out her simulated, onstage orgasms still be described as wholesome and old-fashioned? Is actor Jeff Daniels' "Apartment 3A," the comedy triggering these questions, really funny?
Yes! Yes! Yes! »Read Full Article


text:
Distances given are in a straight line from the centre of Dunfermline but travel routes may be longer.
9.1 Miles
6 Dunnet Way, East Mains Industrial Estate, Broxburn EH52 5NN
Wee Gems - Broxburn offers a versatile childcare service to parents that focuses on all the key early years learning objectives. As a nursery provider the company is keen to play its part on driving new standards and innovation. As well as pleasant… more
9.3 Miles
4a Ingliston Road, By Ingliston, Newbridge EH28 8AU
Little Flyers @ Ingliston is set within a large secluded rural garden, within the perimeter of Edinburgh Airport and the Royal Highland showground. The nursery offers ample parking and is conveniently located beside the Ingliston Park and ride and tram… more
9.6 Miles
88 West Main Street, Broxburn EH52 5LQ
Little Flyers @ Broxburn offers high quality childcare for children aged from three months to twelve years. The nursery is set within a large converted and purpose designed Victorian house situated in the main street of Broxburn. Three bright and… more
11.8 Miles
Garscube Terrace, Murrayfield, Edinburgh EH12 6BG
The Nursery, situated in a wing of the Junior School at St George's School in Edinburgh's West End, provides a flexible and caring private nursery school education where children enjoy a secure, happy and structured day. Nursery education is provided… more
Cramond Early Learning and Childcare
8.7 Miles
26 Whitehouse Road, Cramond, Edinburgh EH4 6NN
Bright Horizons Cramond Early Learning and Childcare makes a crucial contribution to childcare and learning in the surrounding Edinburgh community, with provision for children in a thriving and versatile atmosphere where they can enjoy a wide range of… more
Day Nursery Group:
Bright Horizons Family Solutions
10.8 Miles
6a Featherhall Avenue, Edinburgh EH12 7TQ
Wee Gems Croileagan Nursery is a facility that has experienced substantial upgrading, offering a wide range of resources for children to play and learn, while parents can feel confident with modern security systems and a highly trained team. The focus… more
0.3 Miles
6-8 Halbeath Road, Dunfermline KY12 7QX
Appin Nursery and Creche provides children with activities to stimulate and engage their imagination and curiosity with nature and the outdoors. The nursery has a large garden for children to spend time in which is safe and secure and offers spaces… more
11.6 Miles
c/o David Lloyd Leisure, Gyle Park, Glasgow Road, Edinburgh EH12 9AR
Asquith Edinburgh Day Nursery & Pre-School is located in a purpose built setting in the David Lloyd Club at Gyle Park, Glasgow Road A combined baby and toddler room is full of sensory experiences and creative play, which stimulates children's natural… more
Day Nursery Group:
Asquith Day Nurseries & Pre-Schools Ltd
Little Einsteins Nursery Kirkcaldy
12 Sang Road, Kirkcaldy KY1 1EZ
11.4 Miles
Pitreavie Court, Pitreavie, Dunfermline KY11 8UU
1.6 Miles
The School House, Bonnington Road, Wilkieston, Kirknewton EH27 8BD
11.8 Miles
Clifton Hall School, Newbridge EH28 8LQ
10.4 Miles
Queensferry Road, Kirkliston EH29 9AQ
8.0 Miles
22 Arboretum Avenue, Edinburgh EH4 1HP
11.9 Miles
Edinburgh College Granton Campus, 350 West Granton Road, Edinburgh EH5 1QE
10.2 Miles
12 Dean Terrace, Edinburgh EH4 1ND
12.1 Miles
12 Parkgrove Loan, Barnton, Edinburgh EH4 7QX
9.7 Miles
Bumble Beez Children's Nursery
Eastwood House, 10 Transy Place, Dunfermline KY12 7QN
0.1 Miles
52 Saughton Crescent, Edinburgh EH12 5SP
11.5 Miles
Woodland Cottage, 6 Letham Holdings, off Almond Rd, Craigshill, Livingston EH54 5NX
12.0 Miles
58 Saughton Crescent, Edinburgh EH12 5SP
11.5 Miles
49 Whytescauseway, Kirkcaldy KY1 1XD
11.4 Miles
18/19 Main Street, Dalmeny, South Queensferry EH30 9TU
6.8 Miles
53 High Street, Linlithgow EH49 7ED
8.7 Miles
55 Beath View, Touch, Dunfermline KY11 4UF
0.9 Miles
Greater Pilton Childcare Centre, 18b Ferry Road Avenue, Edinburgh EH4 4BL
10.6 Miles
1 Lochside Place, Edinburgh Park, Edinburgh EH12 9DF
10.8 Miles
29 Inverleith Row, Edinburgh EH3 5QH
11.8 Miles
9 Granton Road, Edinburgh EH5 3QJ
11.3 Miles
24 Newliston Road, Kirkliston EH29 9EA
8.6 Miles
Clever Clogs Childcare Centre Ltd
42 Black Road, Kelty KY4 0BD
5.5 Miles
Noah's Ark Private Nursery Ltd
121 Auchterderran Road, Lochgelly KY5 9DH
6.9 Miles
Lochgelly Sunflower Nursery, Melgund Place, Lochgelly KY5 9QY
6.7 Miles
The Vennel Hall, Smithsland, South Queensferry EH30 9HU
6.0 Miles
1 Castle View, Carnegie Campus, Dunfermline KY11 8PF
2.0 Miles
Fife College, Halbeath, Dunfermline KY11 8JH
1.5 Miles
Claylands Farm, Claylands Road, Newbridge EH28 8LZ
9.6 Miles
159 Newhaven Road, Edinburgh EH6 4QA
11.8 Miles
1/3 King Street, Kirkcaldy, Kirkcaldy KY2 5JR
11.4 Miles
Wester Hailes Road, Edinburgh EH11 4NG
12.1 Miles
David Lloyd Leisure Centre, Newhaven Place, Newhaven, Edinburgh EH6 4LX
11.6 Miles
Kirkland Avenue, Ballingry, Lochgelly KY5 8JS
8.0 Miles
Based at Kirkliston Leisure Ctr, 1 Kirklands Park Street, Kirkliston EH29 9EY
7.8 Miles
Flying Colours Nursery Barnton
534 Queensferry Road, Edinburgh EH4 6EE
9.5 Miles
122 Crewe Road South, Fetlor Youth Centre, Edinburgh EH4 2NY
11.0 Miles
Fergus Place, Dunfermline KY11 4PZ
0.8 Miles
4 McNabb Street, Dollar FK14 7DJ
10.8 Miles
Little Beehive Nursery Kirkcaldy
26a Balfour Street, Kirkcaldy KY2 5HB
11.4 Miles
14 Moss Way, Hillend Industrial Park, Dalgety Bay, Dunfermline KY11 9JS
4.1 Miles
The Old School House, 26 Hill Street, Cowdenbeath KY4 9DE
4.9 Miles


text:
916 Markham Road
2nd Floor
Toronto, ON, M1H 2Y3
If you are traveling by TTC we are located on the Markham bus route. You may take any of the following buses:
102 MARKHAM RD To McNICOLL
A 102A MARKHAM RD To PROGRESS/CENTENNIAL COLLEGE
C 102C MARKHAM RD To PASSMORE
Exit the bus at the PANDORA CIRCLE Bus stop
From Hwy 401 (East or West Bound)
1. Exit at Markham Road (Hwy48) Southbound
2. Travel southbound past 4 traffic lights
3. Turn Right at Pandora Circle, 1st Driveway on the Right
From the Don Valley Parkway (DVP)
1. Lawrence Avenue East Exit
2. Take Lawrence Eastbound to Markham Road
3. Turn Left onto Markham Road
4. Turn Left onto Pandora Circle, 1st Driveway on the Right
Monday to Friday: 8:45am – 5:00pm
Saturday: 9:00am – 1:00pm
Parking lot on the East side of the building.
The following diploma programs are provided at the Scarborough Campus. Certificate Courses may also be available, please contact us for more information.


text:
Nick Edwards
Chief Economics Correspondent, China
Click here to see the latest stories from
Nick Edwards
About Nick
"Nick Edwards is Reuters Chief Economics Correspondent in China. He has extensive experience in Asia and Europe, covering international financial crises on both continents. His current focus is China's development and its influence on international economics and investment markets. Nick has worked for Reuters News for 16 years in a range of assignments, including as Economics Editor for Reuters Insider TV and as Treasury News Editor for Reuters in EMEA."
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text:
Joseph Trujillo gets twelve years in case of child who died alone while he was out drinking
Large photo below.
In January, the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office announced that Joseph Trujillo faced a first-degree murder charge in the death of his five-month old, who died alone while he was out drinking. A week later, the charge against Trujillo was lessened to child abuse resulting in death, to which he pleaded guilty. Now, he's reportedly been sentenced to twelve years in jail.
Look below to see a larger booking photo of Trujillo, as well as January releases from the Sheriff's Office and the Jefferson County Attorney's Office:
Joseph Trujillo.
Jefferson County Sheriff's Office release, January 21:
Five-month-old baby dies while left all alone
Father charged with first degree murder
Jefferson County, CO -- On January 21, 2010, at about 12:30 a.m., Jefferson County Sheriff's deputies and medical personnel responded to the16000 block of W. 10th Ave. in reference to an unresponsive five-month-old baby boy.
The baby's grandmother called 911 after waking up to the sounds of her son, Joseph Trujillo (dob 04-07-86), crying. She found Trujillo holding the unresponsive baby who was subsequently declared dead at the scene by medical personnel. Trujillo is the baby's father, and they share an apartment with the grandmother.
A team of Jefferson County investigators worked diligently through the night interviewing Trujillo, the grandmother, and numerous other witnesses. Through their work it was discovered that Trujillo had left the baby alone in the apartment for between six and seven hours while he went to a local bar and drank.
Trujillo was booked into the Jefferson County Jail where he is being held without bond on the charge of first degree murder.
An autopsy of the baby is pending to determine cause and manner of death.
Anyone with information about this crime is urged to contact the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office tip line at 303-271-5612.
Followup release from the Jefferson County District Attorney's Office, January 22:
To clarify:
Mr. Joseph Trujillo was arrested yesterday after police were called to his house and found his 4-month-old son non-responsive. The baby had died.
Trujillo has not yet been charged with a crime. He was arrested for murder based on what investigators knew at the time. You could also say that he is being held on murder charges, but he has not been charged with anything.
He had his first appearance in court today; he was advised of his rights. His next court appearance is 1/28 at 10:00. This is his return for filing of charges. We have until then to file charges.
The Sheriff's Office asked to have the arrest affidavit sealed so there is no additional information about the investigation available at this time.
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realmagick.com The shrine of knowledge.
- Vedic Sanskrit older than Avesta, Baudhayana mentions westward migrations from
- The Aryan question has been hanging for many decades without any definite conclusion, but with a lot of controversies and politics being played around it.
- India: the land of snake charmers and scientists!
- The Pythagoras' theorem was explained many years before Pythagoras by Baudhayana, commonly known as a Vedic priest. An architect and a mathematician, he was also credited for many other mathematical discoveries, i.e.
- India may have proved Pythagoras Theorem before Greece
- The writing of history is a social process where evidence is gathered and then considered judgements made. There is no dispute amongst historians of science that Baudhayana in around 800 BC in his Shulba Sutra, nearly three centuries before Pythagoras, ...
- Rigvedic people originally lived east of Saraswati, later expanded westwards
- The Aryan question continues to remain highly controversial and multidimensional in nature. In order to unravel the nitty-gritty of the issue, NewsGram interviewed various scholars who have researched various aspects of the issue in depth.
- India Has to Be its Own Cultural Ambassador, But it Has to Be Scientific About
- On the other hand, there is a concrete source in India – namely, Baudhayana's Sulba Sutra – that is before Pythagoras, and that has the Pythagorean theorem stated absolutely clearly. And, that goes back to around 800 BCE. The Pythagorean theorem is ...
Baudhayana is described in multiple online sources, as addition to our editors' articles, see section below for printable documents, Baudhayana books and related discussion.
Suggested News Resources
Great care has been taken to prepare the information on this page. Elements of the content come from factual and lexical knowledge databases, realmagick.com library and third-party sources. We appreciate your suggestions and comments on further improvements of the site.
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text:
The Wrestlemania season is in full swing. The Rock has returned. The Undertaker will be coming next week and he is certain to bring along another megastar. Lots of mysteries will unravel at the next episode of Raw and the card of Wrestlemania will be complete.
However, there is a trifle matter of one PPV - The Elimination Chamber, before all that happens. We all including the WWE, are a little bit busy with bigger things, yet let us take some time out to have a look at how this PPV shapes out to be.
Over the years WWE has introduced many gimmick matches. Elimination Chamber is one of the standout matches of them. Naturally in the wave of Gimmick PPVs, WWE introduced Elimination Chamber themed PPV as well and replaced No Way Out with it. Thankfully, WWE showed rare maturity to have only top two championships or their top contender spot being defended in the chamber. Therefore every year we have cream of both the brands battling it out in the chamber.
This year is no exception to this rule.
In the Raw elimination Chamber we have John Cena, Randy Orton, CM Punk, Sheamus, John Morrison and R-Truth gunning for Miz's WWE championship, where as Miz will be defending his belt against Jerry 'The King' Lawler.
In the Smackdown elimination chamber Edge will defend his World heavyweight Championship against Wade Barret, Drew McIntyre, Kane, Dolph Ziggler and Ray Mysterio.
In other matches, Eve will defend Diva's title against Michelle McCool or both the members of LayCool. Kofi Kingston will most likely take on Alberto Del Rio in non title bout. Daniel Bryan would defend his US title against Ted DiBiase.
This card seems well stacked up. But it is much more than the velocity of card that assures great matches and overall an awesome PPV. Mix of Storylines, Chemistry of superstars and some unforeseen events is what makes it special.
Therefore, with this lengthy backdrop let us proceed with the potential analysis of all the matches.
Disclaimer – this article includes no predictions as to who might win.


text:
- 1.0 Questions on Sign-Ups
- 2.0 Questions on Prompts
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- 4.0 Questions on Posting Your Gift
- 5.0 Questions on Defaulting / Not Creating A Gift
- 6.0 Questions on Moogle Fluff and Chocobo Down
- 7.0 Questions on Being an FFEX Official Beta
- 8.0 General Questions about Final Fantasy Exchange
- 1.0 Sign-Ups
- 1.1 Signing Up for the Exchange
- When can I sign up for FFEX?
Sign-ups are only open for participation at specific times, before each round.
- How do I sign up for FFEX?
For each round, a submission post will be made by a mod inviting all fans to submit their information.To sign up, simply fill out the form included in the submission post.
- I missed the submission period! Can I still play?
We're sorry, but you're going to have to wait until the next round to participate in the actual exchange. However, you can still participate as a back-up gifter, or create gifts for the Chocobo Down or Moogle Fluff periods!
- Can I sign up for FFEX more than once? This means I get multiple gifts, right?
Yes, you can! You can participate as much as you have time for. Just remember that every time you sign up, you're obligated to make a gift, not just receive one. Our rules for defaulting on your gift will apply to each signup individually.
Please make sure you submit separate comments, and clearly state you're signing up twice! This helps your mods out a lot.
- Crap! I made a mistake on my sign-up form! What do I do?
If you find an error on your sign-up form within the Sign-Up Period, please reply to your original comment with corrections. If this isn't working for some reason, contact the mods through email. We'll fix it.
If you don't find the error on your sign-up form until after you've already received your assignment—well, this is why we ask you to double-check your sign-up before submitting it. There isn't much we can do after assignments come out. However, if there is a problem, contact us immediately and we will try our best to work things out.
- Can I invite my friends to participate?
Are you kidding? YES! The more participants we get, the better chance we have of finding everyone's perfect fandom soulmate! So yes, please feel free to invite friends to participate, or advertise for us in your FF-based community.
- If I sign up to be a back-up gifter, what does that mean?
It means you're willing to make an extra gift if another participant defaults—which might be on very short notice. You may have as little as one week's notice to create a gift, so please don't say yes unless you think you can actually do it. However, if you can, your generosity helps ensure everyone gets a gift by the end of the round.
- If I sign up to be a beta gifter, what does that mean?
It means you're willing to make an extra gift during the round, for one of the FFEX betas who have volunteered their time and skills. You may have as little as three week's notice to create a beta gift, but it ensures that all of our betas get a little something for helping us out.
- Can I just be a back-up gifter and/or beta gifter without having to be involved in the exchange?
Of course! Just let us know when you're filling out your sign-up form, and don't fill out the prompts section on the bottom. We do encourage everybody to participate in the exchange, but if you are unable to play, this is an excellent way to help the mods out.
- When can I sign up for FFEX?
- 1.2 Signing up to Beta
- What is a beta, anyway?
A beta is someone separate from you (you, as the creator, are the alpha) examining your work in a critical sense. Usually your beta is the person you have check your work over for possible errors before you share it with the world. Because not everyone has a skilled, knowledgable friend willing to beta, FFEX provides betas for the exchange.
- Why would I want to be a beta?
FFEX sponsored betas get a gift in return for the skills they offer during the exchange. You will be able to submit three prompts, one of which will become your fandom thank-you for volunteering to beta!
- When can I sign up to be a beta?
Beta signups are only open during specific times. We'll make a post announcing how long you have to sign up to beta. Usually, beta signups occur at the same time as the regular sign-ups.
- How do I sign up to be a beta?
For each round, a mod will make a post inviting members of the community to become official FFEX betas. To sign up, simply fill out the form included in the beta sign-up post. Beta sign-ups are separate from the exchange sign-ups.
- Can I participate in the exchange AND volunteer to be a beta?
Of course you can, as long as your schedule permits it. You will need to submit two separate sign-up forms. You will receive two separate gifts.
- What is a beta, anyway?
- 1.3 Your Do-Not-Want List
- What if a certain pairing or type of fic squicks me?
You will have an opportunity to make a list of things you do not want to see during FFEX, whether you sign up for the exchange, to beta, or both. The Do-Not-Want section of your sign-up form is where you can list things you don't want to see during FFEX.
- How does the Do-Not-Want List work?
In the GIVE portion of your sign-up, this section should contain things you are not willing to create.In the GET portion of your sign-up form, this section should contain things you do not want to receive in your gifts.In your beta form, this section should include things you are not willing to beta.
- What kind of things can I put on my Do-Not-Want List?
The Do-Not-Want list has four sections: "Ratings / Relationship Level", "Squicks, Kinks, and Warnings", "Pairings or Characters", and "Personal Preferences". More information about these categories can be found on this page.
- If I'm talking about kinks or pairings, how do I know you know what I mean?
You don't! Which is why it is so important to BE VERY SPECIFIC when creating your Do-Not-Want list! Do NOT use fandom slang if there is a chance it will be confusing. We've compiled a list of ways to avoid confusion.
- What if I'm just uncomfortable with something? Should I put it on my list?
The answer is probably "yes". Think about it: if you would be upset seeing it in a prompt, or if you would be upset by your gift if it included this thing, then it needs to go on your Do-Not-Want List.
- Does this mean I can list any characters or pairings I just don't want to write?
Well, technically, yes, but we'd really prefer that you don't use it this way. Keep in mind: the longer your Do-Not-Want List becomes, the harder you are to match. Please think really hard about whether you seriously do not want to write or draw a character or pairing, or if you're just being difficult to please.
- What if a certain pairing or type of fic squicks me?
- 1.1 Signing Up for the Exchange
- 2.0 Prompts
- 2.1 Your Own Prompts
- What's a prompt?
Your prompts should describe potential gifts you'd like to receive in the exchange. You get three prompts each time you sign up, and you're guaranteed to get a special gift—made just for you—that fits one of your requests!
- How do I make sure my gifter knows what I want?
Stay away from fandom slang; it isn't applied equally across the board. We've created some guidelines to help you fill out your forms.
- What if there's one prompt I want to see more than the others?
We'd prefer you didn't. If you express to your gifter that you really want one particular prompt and not the others, they're going to feel bad if they can't fill that prompt, and we don't like people feeling bad during FFEX! We understand some prompts are more exciting than others, but please, try to make all of your prompts represent something you would honestly be happy to receive.
- What if I want to change my prompt(s)?
If the sign-up period is still going on, you can reply to your original comment, or email the mods to change your prompts. If the exchange has already started, we're sorry, but you can't change your prompts—they've already been given to your gifter!
- What's a prompt?
- 2.2 The Prompts You Are Assigned
- How many choices will I get in my assignment?
We can in all honest reality only promise you one prompt that will match the information you volunteered in your sign-up form. However, we try to match at least 2/3 of all requests to one particular giver. If you're lucky (and if we're good), you'll have three different prompts to choose from! In Round 1, most of the participants had a 3/3 match!
- You assigned me a prompt I can't complete!
As long as you can complete one of your three prompts, we've made a good match. If you can't complete any of your prompts, please contact your mods immediately.
- I don't like my prompt(s)! Can I change?
Only in a few—very rare—cases will the mods actually reassign prompts. We match gifters and giftees based on the information in the sign-up form. If something was not clearly, explicitly stated in your signup form, this is not our problem.
An important part of the exchange is the fun and surprise involved in exchanging prompts with strangers. We would prefer you be open-minded about prompts which might take you in new directions.
- Can I fill any of the three prompts I want?
Yes! We ask that people don't order their prompts at all, which lets you pick the prompt you're most excited to fill!
- What if I want to fulfill a prompt for something (fandom, character) I didn't include in my sign-up form? Will that mess things up?
Not at all. You're responsible for one gift for your assigned person—it doesn't matter what prompt you fill, or whether or not you said you'd write it originally. Once you've been matched, all we ask is that you make one high-quality gift for your giftee.
- My prompt says "art or fic", but I can't draw! What should I do?
We make matches according to the information on the sign-up forms, including media.So if you only sign up to write, you'll be assigned fic prompts; if you sign up to draw, you'll be assigned art prompts. Many people list both, but we only expect you to do what you signed up for! Don't panic!
- 2.2.1 Appealing Your Prompts
- I want to submit an appeal!
Appealing your assignment is a big step. First, step back and look at your prompts: do they actually conflict with what you wrote in your sign-up form? If so, then you have a valid case for appeal. If not—if your prompts match your sign-up form and you just don't like them—you do not have a valid case to appeal; we fulfilled our end of the bargain, which was matching prompts to your form.
- How do I submit an appeal?
Email the moderators. In your email, include your sign-up form (or a link to it) and the prompts we have assigned you. Explain to us why you believe you're unable to complete your assignment. Talk to us; let us know what's wrong. Be specific and thorough. Don't be rude, mean, or inconsiderate; your mods are people too!
- How does the appeal work?
The mods will discuss each appeal on a case-by-case basis. If it really was our mistake, we'll take full responsibility for screwing up your match, and we'll assign you a new set of prompts as soon as we can! We'll then contact a back-up gifter to reassign the first set of prompts.
If the mods decide you don't have a valid reason to be reassigned, we will deny your appeal. Reasons like "I don't like this pairing" or "I never said I'd write slash" or "This is just stupid" are not acceptable (if not noted in your original signup form). Reasons like "I didn't know this existed, but it squicks me" or "I'd forgotten about this character entirely, I don't think I can write him/her" will be discussed by the mods. We'll get back to you as soon as we come to a decision.
Keep in mind: it is very likely that appeals will fail. The mods try very hard to make matches based on your sign-up form; we expect you to abide by it.
- What if my appeal gets denied?
You have a few options. Your best option is to try and fill your prompts anyway, to the best of your ability; we can connect you with a beta if you need help with any part of the process. If you truly are unable to fill any of your prompts, you will need to contact the mods and let us know you are defaulting on your assignment. The earlier you do this, the easier it is for us to fill the hole you are leaving.
- I want to submit an appeal!
- How many choices will I get in my assignment?
- 2.1 Your Own Prompts
- 3.1 Creating Your Gift
- Can I fill any of the three prompts I want?
Yes! We ask that people don't order their prompts at all, which lets you pick the prompt you're most excited to fill!
- What if I want to fill more than one of my giftee's requests?
This is not only okay, but excellent! If you want to fill them all in one piece, or in multiple gifts, feel free. Just be sure to manage your time wisely; you will still be held responsible for one gift in the FFEX timeline.
- How long does my fic have to be?
We ask that fanfiction be at least 1000 words. We won't penalize you if you're just short of that; 1000 words represents the kind of effort we expect you to put into the work.
- How good does my fic/art have to be?
As good as you can make it! We ask that everyone try to submit something they're proud of.
- I've got questions about this prompt. Can I email the person?
That would ruin the surprise! Please contact your mods; we'll ask your questions, and make sure everyone's secrecy stays intact!
- Can I fill any of the three prompts I want?
- 3.2 Having Your Gift Betaed
- What's a beta, anyway?
A beta is someone separate from you (you, as the creator, are the alpha) examining your work in a critical sense. Usually your beta is the person you have check your work over for possible errors before you share it with the world. Because not everyone has a skilled, knowledgable friend willing to beta, FFEX provides betas for the exchange.
- Do I have to have my gift betaed?
No, but we strongly suggest that you do. The feedback poll from Round 1 made us very aware of how important gift quality is to the recipients. Wouldn't you rather make sure your gift is the best you can possibly give?
- How do I find a beta?
You can ask your fandom friends whether they would be willing to beta your gift, you can go to one of the Livejournal communities dedicated to providing beta services for Final Fantasy—or you can head on over to the FFEX Sponsored Beta list and choose one for yourself.
- What will the beta do?
That's up to the beta. We offer betas at a variety of levels to match the kind of critique you want to get. Feel free to read more about our beta system.
- What's a beta, anyway?
- When can I post my gift?
Community posting will open up to all members during posting week. At this point, you may post it right into ff_exchange.
- Can I post my gift anywhere else?
You can crosspost your gift as much as you want—after it has been posted in the FFEX community. Before then, please keep it a secret!
- What format should I post it in?
You'll need to use proper headers, so that we all know who your gift is for! We'll be posting FFEX headers that you can just copy and paste.
- Can I use a fake-cut?
We would rather you didn't. This is a gift for someone else, and we'd like them to know that the entire gift can always be found in this particular post.
- What should I do with my artwork?
We'd like you to post the actual artwork in your post, not just a link. If you have a host you know will be there for good, you can host your artwork there. If not, FFEX provides webspace for our artists.
- The deadline isn't here yet, but I don't think I'm going to be able to complete my gift. What should I do?
The easiest answer: keep working on your gift, you can do it!
However, if this just isn't possible for whatever reason, let the mods know as soon as possible. We'll work with a back-up gifter to make sure your recipient gets a gift for this round of FFEX. If you do have to default on your assignment, we will probably assign you some Chocobo Down; completing this will clear your record with us.
- The deadline's here and I didn't make a gift. What do I do?
If you do not finish your assignment on time...
- ...and never contact the moderators, we will assume you don't like FFEX, and you won't be able to participate in future exchanges.
- ...and do contact us saying you won't be able to finish your gift on time, you won't be able to participate in the next exchange without completing a Chocobo Down assignment.
- ...and do contact us saying you will be able to finish but it will be late, you won't be able to participate in the next exchange until your gift is done. We may also give you a Chocobo Down assignment.
- ...because of extenuating circumstances, contact the mods and we'll work with you to either give an extension or assign a back-up writer.
- I totally forgot about the exchange and now it's too late. What can I do?
Talk to the mods, thank your gifter, and prepare to write copious amounts of Chocobo Down.
- What's with the Chocobo Down assignments?
Chocobo Down is an excellent way to win your way back into the exchange (and into our hearts). The mods will tell you how many pieces we think is a fair penalty, and all you have to do is pick requests off of the Chocobo Down list and create gifts for them. Once your Chocobo Down assignment is complete, you'll be more than welcome to participate in the next round of FFEX.
- What, exactly, is Moogle Fluff?
"Moogle Fluff" is any kind of gift given to a giftless person after Submissions Week, to tide them over while our back-up gifters work. We'll post the requests of giftless participants, and the community can fill these prompts in any way desired while the gifts are being completed in the background.
- What counts as Moogle Fluff?
Anything. There are no length or quality guidelines for Moogle Fluff, so you can post drabbles and sketches here. Even icons and graphics are welcome.
- Who can post Moogle Fluff?
Anyone! Even if you didn't participate in the exchange, you are more than welcome to post Moogle Fluff.
- How long can I post Moogle Fluff?
The Moogle Fluff period will only last for a week. After that week, everyone will have received their gift, and we'll move on to Chocobo Down.
- What, exactly, is Chocobo Down?
"Chocobo Down" is any gift made between rounds of the exchange to fill unclaimed requests. Since everyone writes three requests but only gets one gift, at the end of the round, we take all the unfilled requests and compile them into an anonymous master post. Community members are more than welcome to write any prompts from this post, to keep things going until the next round starts.
- What counts as Chocobo Down?
Chocobo Down gifts should meet the usual FFEX quality standards, even though they're not given to a specific recipient (requests are anonymous).
- Who can post Chocobo Down?
Again, anyone! The Chocobo Down list is open to everyone, even if you didn't participate in the exchange.
- How long can I post Chocobo Down?
Chocobo Down posting lasts until the next round of the exchange opens. (Don't worry; you'll have plenty of time.)
- I was assigned [x] pieces of Chocobo Down by the mods. What does this mean?
All it means is that if you'd like to participate in the next exchange, we would like you to create [x] gift(s) from the list of Chocobo Down prompts. You may choose any prompts you like, and you may complete them in any media you would like, although you do need to meet the FFEX quality guidelines.
- What is a beta, anyway?
A beta is someone separate from you (you, as the creator, are the alpha) examining your work in a critical sense. Usually your beta is the person you have check your work over for possible errors before you share it with the world. Because not everyone has a skilled, knowledgable friend willing to beta, FFEX provides betas for the exchange.
- Why would I want to be a beta?
FFEX sponsored betas get a gift in return for the skills they offer during the exchange. You will be able to submit three prompts, one of which will become your fandom thank-you for volunteering to beta!
- What's with this beta screening?
There is a brief screening process before you can become an official FFEX beta. You'll be asked to critique a sample piece of fanwork. A mod will contact you over email with further details. The screening process is mostly to determine what level of beta you are.
- What do the beta levels mean?
- A "Mild" beta concentrates on proofreading: checking spelling, grammar, and mechanics, rather than addressing possible changes to the work itself.
- A "Medium" beta is a good balance; they will try to work with your piece, but will be more likely to suggest more significant changes or make constructive critique.
- A "Spicy" beta has a very strong editing style, and will nitpick not only grammar and mechanics but questions of overall style, characterization, and execution.
- What does an FFEX sponsored beta have to do?
FFEX sponsored betas are available during the exchange for anyone who needs their services. You'll be expected to give helpful critique on each story or artwork (as suits your beta level). You'll also be expected to have a fast turn-around time for each piece you beta, as participants only have a month to complete their gifts!
- What if no one contacts me?
Sometimes participants have their own personal betas, which they prefer. There is a chance you won't be contacted to beta. You'll still get a gift, though, for offering your services. If this makes you feel bad, there are plenty of things you can do for FFEX in return (back-up gifting, Moogle Fluff, Chocobo Down).
- What's all this talk about macrofandoms and microfandoms?
We call Final Fantasy, as a whole, a macrofandom, because it's made up of individual fandoms for each game (but often lumped together as a whole anyway). Each individual game can be referred to as a fandom, a canon, or a microfandom, depending on who you ask and what circle of fandom you're involved in.
- What happens if I break a rule or do something wrong?
If it's related to your gift, please see section 5.0, Questions on Defaulting.
The other rules of FFEX are simply to ensure fair play and friendly interaction. Members breaking the rules will be contacted by the mods according to a three-strike policy. The first strike will be a warning, delivered over email. The second strike initiates a temporary ban from all exchanges. The third strike will be final, and it will ban the user from all future exchanges here.
[Last edit 6/6/09, 6am]


text:
Next Summer's Beer and Coolers, Brought to You by Crowdfunding
The unofficial last week of summer was also a record-breaking week for crowdfunding campaigns: Stone Brewing Company, an Escondido (Calif.)-based microbrewer, has been taking early orders for some new brews on Indiegogo since July. By the time it closed on Aug. 29, the campaign hit $2.5 million, a record for the crowdfunding site.
Now customers will have to wait. The two breweries at which Stone Brewing plans to make the new beers haven't been built yet, and the company doesn't think it will start brewing until the end of 2015.
The new beers might be perfect companions for the summer's other big crowdfunding bonanza, a tricked-out picnic cooler that comes with extras you never knew you needed: a bottle opener, waterproof speakers, and a built-in blender (perfect for beer milkshakes).
The Coolest, as the project is called, has also been a record-setter. Last week it crossed the $11 million mark on Kickstarter, topping the $10.2 million raised for the Pebble smartwatch in 2012. Depending on when backers contributed to the Coolest campaign, they can expect to receive coolers by February 2015, though—as Pebble backers learned—crowdfunded products can be subject to delay.
Why were these projects so successful? Some researchers say authoritative language helps drive successful campaigns. Others maintain that viral potential is more important than the final product, which helps explain how a Web developer named Zack Brown raised more than $50,000 to make potato salad. Creating a great video no doubt helps, as does begging friends for social media shares and offering a variety of rewards according to how much backers contribute.
Stone Brewing's crowdfunding success has been, at least partially, rooted in tapping into an existing fan base. The company is the 10th-largest craft brewer in the U.S., and about one third of its pre-sales have come from selling $3,000 bulk orders aimed at wholesalers.
The Coolest's campaign may offer a better blueprint for entrepreneurs. The project's creator, a Portland, Ore., inventor named Ryan Grepper, tried to fund a similar project last winter in a campaign that failed to meet its goals. The first effort created a base of people eager to support the project before Grepper launched the second campaign in July. He raised millions of dollars in a few days, and the ensuing media attention helped carry the campaign the rest of the way.
There are simpler explanations for why the two projects thrived. More money is flowing into crowdfunding projects than ever. And summer is a good time to sell beer and coolers—even those yet to be made.