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East End Gay Pride cancelled
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One day before Imaan was due to publish a dossier on the other organisers …
Yep, the same gay muslim organisation that when subjected to sustained abuse from muslim fundamentalists at a talk on "Islam and Homosexuality" said "we would welcome the caliphate". The same policy as Hizb ut Tahrir, and as Quiliam (made up of ex Hizb ut Tahrir people) pointed out last summer, most muslim organisations in Britain have the same aims as the extremists: sharia law for all.
Imaan destroyed East End Gay Pride. Let's see the gay muslims organise something to fight islamic homophobia, instead of just stabbing other gay people in the back.
You quote the Quilliam foundation, in case you did not realise, they are a Muslim organisation… how does that sit with your fascist ideology of hating all Muslims? Secondly, you are blatantly misquoting their research. Thirdly, it is lying EDL fascists who have lead to the re-assessment of the East End Pride. If you want an EDL fascist rally, go and hold one, you hold them regularly any way, why do you have feel the need to pretend it is a Pride march?
queer.com you are attributing your own racism and stupidity to other people. Half the staff at Quilliam are not muslims – how does that make it a muslim organisation? It demonstrates your own racism – you cannot imagine there are white non-muslims working with Quilliam. As for my "hating all muslims", 2 of the greatest loves of my life were muslim, and I voluntarily go to the aid of any muslim, because they are human beings. You are the fascist.
Secondly, show where I'm misquoting them. Let's see how Quilliam handled the Panorama programme about muslim children being taught to kill homos: "The government must also urgently review and strengthen its procedures to protect school children from being groomed by extremists, whether extreme Islamists or BNP members."
Thirdly, the Police National Domestic Extremism unit investigated EDL throughout 2010, and concluded "EDL is not a far-right organisation".
Let me be most up front and honest about my views…. I'm a Christian who believes that homosexual realtionships are an abomination to the creator of the very life that sustains both you and I, but I'm also a believer, who believes that my rights as a free moral agent should not be legislated to prevent any human being from making the decisions that their own personal conscience believes that they can make.
All I would ask is that you would consider the alternative, because there is an alternative way of life that you would not have to suffer the persecution that you currently do!!!
May God be with us all!!
Oh? Have the cancelled East End Homophobia too?
the IS an gay pride in East London. It happened last September and will happen again.
One of the organizers told me how they asked Pride London for support and didn't get it. Due to them believing that they were a new group and that it make take a couple of events for Pride London to openly support.
So organizations will come together to create a fascist free pride march in the East End… like they did last year.
…and in the meantime what'll happen about the homophobic posters? Do we just put up n shut up, in the hope it goes away, which we know it won't.
Would the Gay Pride Mega Babe is referring to by any chance be Outeast's march against gay imperialism and homonationalism, and addressed by no fewer than nine politicians and trade union leaders?
Sounds like tremendous fun.
Is that what Hackney pride really was?
That's how it was advertised. Hard to say what eventually materialised, because it was so badly attended that not even the local papers covered it.
Hackney Pride was well attended and did make the local papers. It was a good show of visibility, it addressed all the issues, bar one.
I was at Hackney Pride- it was loads of fun and I am sure will be tons of fun again this year. As for the political stance of the event, I think its better to state your politics rather than hide your true colours behind 'pearly drag kings and queens', lie, mislead supporters and then lead to this debacle of a cancelled march. Just my opinion
on the contrary, people need fun and to feel good about themselves. drag queens and lady gaga and house music and beer. In Tower Hamlets just as it is in Soho. Showing pride is confrontational for those who take offence at our existence because of their infantile views on homosexuality.
I call on some promoter to organise another pride, with NO involvement of the UAF who stamnd alongside Anjem Choudary, nor any of the other unelected goons.
As for the Uncle Tom gays who attacked the organisers…sexual McCarthyism is alive and well in the ranks of London gay activism.
This is so sad. I dont know whats been going on with this, I dont think anyone really does, just so annoying that something so positive had tto be turned into such a disaster!
Becky, I think now is the time to start planning something genuinely positive. I find it hard to believe that something organised by a founding member of EDL, a group founded on the basis of hatred of one community (Muslims) could have ever been positive. And also, there have been positive mini-ventures already, such as walks of love. I think it is important for us to not be used by EDL or any other far-right groups whie attempting to send out a positive message
I am so pleased to see this video released today because it reminds me what we can do, political and non-political people alike, standing together to say that Hate Crime is not acceptable in our communities. In light of recent attempts to divide our communities – we must ensure that all events in the name of Pride are inclusive events that celebrate our diversity.
This is now an endorsement by the gay community of the East End of Islamic homophobia and hatred.
By staying home, we're saying "It's fine for Muslims (and extremists from other religious groups) to hate us, to beat us and to kill us."
This is shameful.
Is it actually possible for any gay event to happen in this country without descending into bitching, fighting and personal attacks?
What a shower of twats we must look like to the rest of the world!
We must not be beaten by hate!
Such a shame. A real missed opportunity :(
Ah … well done!
I already feared i had to join EEGP to kick some fascist ar$e, which i'm actually much to old for.
Aah, the Left does its worst again. These self-appointed 'committee gays' should be ashamed of themselves (but doubt they will be) and their tacit support for homophobia in the East End.
what a steaming crock of poo!
'The Left'!? what are you on about you daft bugger?
Er, Imaan and other local gay groups – who by their very nature are left leaning – have gone out of their way to attack another group of gays who want to confront the attitude of some Muslims in the East End. It's pretty obvious to me, but you can simply make uninformed, derogatory remarks that add nothing to the debate.
we dont need edl thugs to help us challenge religous intolerance
And the homophobes win. I can hear there cheering!
Thanks to all those who helped stop our right to defend ourselves from homophobia, Terry Stewart of OutEast and Jack Gilbert and Rebecca Shaw of Rainbow Hamlets.
Clearly profit and self interest to these groups are far more important that the LGBT communities safety. Other groups are entitled to protest but not LGBT people thanks to out East and Rainbow Hamlets. They will no doubt continue to make excuses.
You truely are a disgusting excuse, how dare you call yourselves help groups.
One more thing, this cancellation that you focused yourselves on, not only now gives those homophobes more power to carry on, without a care, I think it's a certainty that you have created resentment from quite a few in the local area that are LGBT.
But then your not its not about LGBT to you lot is it!
Time for these two groups to disband and make way for people that Actually want to help and do good.
To use Rebecca Shaw's own words, which I guess have won through here….
"Put up or shut up!"
Your groups have every LGBT's that now suffers abuse and violence, you have Their blood on Your hands.
Disband already you represent No-one but Hate criminals.
Can you understand this for a moment mate – I am muslim and gay right.. I want to march against violent islamic homophobes along side people who are against hatred. I do not want to march alongside people who want my family out of the country, islam banned and who don't believe there is a thing such a moderate islam…? Imaan is due to produce a dossier showing the connections these organizers have with the far right… how in the hell do you expect me to take a stand against very real homophobia with people who also hate everything about my culture?
Thankfully I reckon another pride will spring up to replace it but seriously, put yourself in my position? What would you do?
I do not wish your family to leave the country, nor do I wish to make practising islam illegal.
However, I have protested in christian areas against homophobic christians, and im not a hypocrite so I intend to march against homophobic muslims too. Which if the east london mosque is anything to go by, are very prevalent indeed.
you said that while sucking on a werthers original didnt you…..I can see it now! lol
Yes, it is very tough to be Muslim and gay.
In realistic terms, the far right groups can not get to you, because on a grand scale they are unelectable. Do you really see the immigrant population being shipped out of here at any point? There would be no England left to speak of.
On a local level, homophobes can and will get to you, though, irrespective of their religious persuasion.
I am gay first, and Christian second. It gives me a better perspective. That would be my advice to you as a Muslim, too.
I think its a question of geography. Here in south east london, I wont hold my partners hand, because I live in an area with alot of nigerian christians and muslims who would not take kindly to it. Which angers me greatly. However where my parents live in on a council estate, I would rather be gay there than muslim.. from the frequent daily hatred that they get directed at them all the time. I worry more for my family than myself. Nobody thought the national socialist party in germany was electable until it was too late, and with the popularity of geert wilders and the rise of the right in europe I think my fears are rational towards islamophobia. I want to fight hate wherever it is.
Look, as LGBTQ whether first, second, or third, I am sure you would not want to march together with Homophobes. If you can understand that, then why cant you understand that as a Muslim/Asian/Migrant, whether that comes first/second/third or fourth, you cannot march with xenophobes, racists and Islamophobes? I do not buy that one or two far right blokes would not make any difference. Please read the comments on these pages. The kind of racist bile that has been expressed is shocking. Not from everybody, true, but certainly enough to make this and every other discussion on pink news around this event seriously ugly. I think before we march, we need to take a long hard look at what we are becoming!
I think you'll find many people simply want Muslims to adhere to British values e.g. accepting the rule of English law, women's rights and to practice their religion privately. I would completely understand your position if what you say were true, but I think you are misinformed about the various groups' stance on moderate Islam.
Youre aware that 'British' includes Scotland and Wales and Northern Ireland right? (and not just 'England')
I also think you'll find that Islam gave women rights centuries before 'England' did.
As I keep saying (and I truly am blue in the face!) what youre ALL talking about when you talk about Islam is a modern fundamentalist take on a religion which preaches at its very heart that each individual must not do anything to harm other people and that every single person has to use their own mind up on religious issues and that their faith is ultimately only between themselves and God.
There are certain politically and fiscally driven reasons why those notions have been hijacked of late by certain groups who are managing to persuade others that God talks only thru certain individuals and that Islam requires religious obedience.
Seeing as how you are all obsessed with the idea the LEAST you could do is actually do some research on the subject eh?
God Bless
I think you will find many others are racists who are using their 'concerns' over Islam and their nationalism to harass and marginalise anyone who looks vaguely Muslim/Asian. And you will also find many people liken the entire religion to a 'cancer' to something that will 'drown in blood', to something 'incompatible with modern world', i.e., essentially medieval. Now, it is simple enough that these are terms of abuse, of hatred. Does being gay somehow give us the license to dish out abuse like this?
That message has only really been put about because Out East and Rainbow Hamlets opposed the protest. Apart from one idiot there is no reason to believe this is what it was going to be.
Too many of US have our own minds to take OUR message of Against Homophobia for ALL.
We are not children like religion seems to insist, we have our own minds and with that we make the march how WE see fit not other groups.
Since when have we been so brainwashed that we can't make our own minds up?
For your info I am well aware of 'your position' I am fortunate enough to have several Muslim friends but they had the guts to stand up for what They believe and that is to make a stand Against homophobia. They were the ones who encouraged me to go in the first place. So with that amount of courageousness from them how could I refuse?
The march would have been what We made it, not any groups but the LGBT groups but I guess that doesn't matter. Thought we were better than that.
Translation – Imaan is going to make stuff up because they're ticked they didn't think of actually, you know, speaking out and saying "this isn't the real message of Islam".
Congratulations on encouraging the haters and making the lives of GLBT people everywhere harder. Make no mistake, those who want us dead (like 90% of your religion do) will see this as a victory and a green light to abuse, assault and murder LGBT people. Anyone who suffers abuse or worse, their blood is on your hands. You should hang your head in shame
Its strange that so many of the supporters and organisers of EEGP are not treating Imaan's revelations as 'made up stuff'.
'Make no mistake, those who want us dead (like 90% of your religion do) will see this as a victory and a green light to abuse, assault and murder LGBT people.'
What utter rot!
There is a Pride that started last year in the East End and will happen again in September. Which is ran by local non-fascist and anti-racist community groups.
Not the EDL… or 'London Pride'
Will the UAF be there again, whose supporters stood alongside Anjem Choudary's mob when they protested for taliban style shariah law in britain? It's been on Youtube and national news, so don't pretend that didn't happen.
Strange, and I thought the EDL only made a stand against extreme sharia which is very homophobic. I dont think you have any worries about the EDL if your a moderate muslim, but maybe your a little brain washed and not read the true facts. Visit their website, find out for yourself.
Totally agree. And I repeat my point that it's high time there was further investigation into Imaan's links and motivations.
Why not "investigate" Will, by going to an imaan meeting yourself.. perhaps undercover even? You can see if your ridiculous beliefs of a global islamic conspiracy have any truth to them then. But people like you will – would rather hate from a distance, behind a monitor – than try to find out things for yourelf Please stop insinuating rubbish mate.
I certainly don't hate Muslims, as you can certainly tell from my above post. I think the tone of your posts here say far more about your hatred for anyone who thinks differently to you. Oh, and I'm not your 'mate'.
I'm sorry, where is the tone of hate in my posts?
@muscelad23: take a look at your original post, hardly a beacon of rationality is it? Says quite a lot about what you think you know about the Right though. To move on, the point is that we're not going to get anywhere near tackling this issue if people insist on making highly reactionary, and false, statements.
Umm I said the "far right". I also dislike the "far left" e.g communists. I made the comment about edl supporters saying moderate islam doesnt exist because I actually saw them saying it on youtube. I mentioned deportation because my dad gets harrassed by an edl member in his street on a daily basis "to go back to your country". Geert wilders, the poster boy and hero for the edl from the netherlands has called for the complete banning of islam. I dont really see how you think my post was irrational?
I agree with you that Geert Wilders is an unpleasant person. But you have to admit his popularity is in part due to muslim extremists who killed theo van goph and the Cartoons controversy.
– However it is definitely the case the Wilders is vilifying all muslims to garner support which is cheap and islamaphobic.
Also I still dont see why I shouldnt be allowed to protest in the east end, I have protested against homophobic christian churches before, why should homophobic mosques be any different?
@musclelad: One person's links to a Far Right orgnanisation is just that. One person. Even if others have Far Right leanings, which remain to be seen, you would've been marching with a wide cross-section of the LGBT community who simply want to tackle homophobia in Islam. I really don't want to argue with you, however, your original response to me was incredibly rude and unnecessary.
Will K.
The Police Domestic Extremism unit said EDL are not a far-right organisation. But of course you know better than a national police unit with 100 specialist officers, don't you?
@ EDL supporter. Far from it, I am happy to be corrected where necessary. I sympathise with many of your concerns.
musclelad I think you are lying once again. Please show me where Geert Wilders says he wants to ban islam. His position is that if the hate laws of Holland were applied fairly, the Koran would be ILLEGAL in Holland, just as Mein Kampf is illegal in Holland. His claims it that there is more anti-jew hatred in the Koran than there is in Mein Kampf (I can't judge if that's true, because I haven't read Mein Kampf, although interestingly Mein Kampf is a bestseller in many muslim countries).
The Quilliam report I linked to on Scribd does indeed make it look like most "moderate" muslim organisations in Britain should be regarded as extremist – they are all aiming to islamise Britain, resurrect the Caliphate, and introduce sharia law.
40% of British muslims want to see apostates executed. That's a very sizable number of extremists. 72% of muslim men in Britain want to see homosexuality re-criminalised (and very possibly with the penalty being death).
It is Very interesting to note the tone between a debate on here against Homophobic Christians and Homophobic Muslims.
The comments against homophobia is generally the same though the response is Very different.
If both stories are about religious homophobia Why is it acceptable to rightly critise Christians but not Muslims?
Why is it different when the homophobia is the same, well I say the same most Christians as a rule don't want us dead.
At the talk Imaan gave at London University in December 2010, their representative said "I would welcome the caliphate". It was pointed out to them by a man in the audience that this was precisely what Hizb ut Tahrir want, and it would mean the mass murder of gay people.
I want Imaan to explain why they welcome the Caliphate. Here's the Quilliam document that shows we should be extremely suspicious of almost every muslim organisation in Britain:
Perhaps now is the time for Imaan to organise a gay pride demo in east London to show how muslims are not 100% homophobic.
Maybe musclelad23 would benefrit from an invitation to an edl meeting , and actually meet some edl members. imman seem to make invitations continously to attend their meetings, its almost like an evangelical trying to lure you to their church
Here goes my exchange with one of the Iraqi homos living here claiming that he is under threat of death from muslims in both Iraq and London.
me: would you come along to an EDL meeting?
him: no, you are Nazis
me: how can we be Nazis – we have a jewish group and we are one of the strongest supporters of Israel in Britain. We are against islamic extremism.
him: there is nothing wrong with islam
me: (stunned silence)
me: so why are you in hiding from muslims who want to kill you in Iraq and in London, and claiming asylum here on those grounds. Why aren't you seeking asylum in a muslim country.
him: (stunned silence)
Muslims and the left have made it clear that all they want to do is maintain a gulf between EDL and muslims. I think that is a huge error. What we need is integration, not ghettoization. But as the Koran tells muslims "do not take the jews and christians as your friends", islam is an impediment to that integration.
I am not surprised any muslim would keep well away from an EDL meeting – your spokes people give rabble rousing speeches, demonising all muslims. The people on your marches single out and indiscriminately attack Asians, it's on YouTube. If the leadership says they are only targeting extremists, it hasn't got through to the rank and file.
what a steaming crock of poo!
(oh! wait a minute! I said that before! lol)
Yes it seems to be your highly intelligent standard response to something you don't agree with!
one may get fed up with your aggressive views, thefore it is not unreasnable to expect response of that nature
One interesting issue is the underlying assumption that the fight against homophobia is a left-wing monopoly.
What a shame. Thought it was a good idea and the intentions seemed innocent (i.e. celebrate gay life in the East End but don't demonise Muslims).
Once it came out that one of the organisers was a founder member of the EDL (a founder member!) there was no option but to cancel. I certainly wouldn't have attended. Shame.
There is a pride in east london already! In september!
just that you didnt hear about it, cause Pride London didnt want to support it.
Oh don't be silly everyone. I'm sure a pride event will still happen, but fortunately it won't be run by Islamophobic right-wing nutjobs. The message needs to be "no to homophobia, no to Islamophobia".
No it will be instead run by a wide cross-section of 'apologist committee gays' who are too scared about upsetting anyone's feelings to tackle homophobia in Islam. Hurrah.
Of course it will happen, probably under the banner of fighting gay imperialism and homonationalism.
It's about Homophobia not Islamophobia.
In any case why just Islamophobia, what about all other religions? A fact that only gets argued when we its about Muslim homophobes but never if its Christian homophobes etc. You jump in there from them and only them then… Hypocrite.
Double standards Andy by any chance?
Being that most religions are the cause of homophobia why single the one out that is The most homphobic?
its about both you dickhead
I give up – honestly
Give what up exactly? My right to debate? Never.
Maybe you could get off your @rse and organise it, with a few of the other serial complainers on here.
And the message from Rainbow Hamlets and Out East is…
Be Ashamed of who you are!
don't be silly
Yet I don't see any group, Muslim or otherwise visibly telling people not to post homophobic posters.
Oh so all those Mosques that condemned the stickers and said it was the wrong thing to do weren't doing that then
the east london mosque that hosts speakers who call for the death of gay people? I dont think saying no too the stickers makes up for actual homophobic actions in the past.
You mean those same Mosques that invite homophobic preachers, have Spot The Fag' contests. The Mayor that allows homophobic language to be used during his times he sits discussing Tower Hamlets affairs. Those ones you mean
The East London Mosque and the Muslim Council of Britain did exactly that – or did you not notice?
Concerned, don't start muddying the water with facts.
None of these people complaining and kicking off are going to lift a finger to help deliver a public event in the East End against homophobia. The are going to sit banging cr@ppy comments into a computer.
They are not going to take the slightest notice of anything the Muslim community has done to build bridges
This is just not true. In Dagenham where I live we constantly protest against the BNP and its horrific victimisation of Muslim people, to such an extent we made them lose their council seats.
So when I hear that a big and powerful mosque such as the east end of london is allowing speakers to incite the murder of gays i get very annoyed. Until they stop doing this and major Muslims voices (MCB, the Mosque itself) condemn such views and speakers directly (not some poncey comment about opposing homophobia) then I rightly am going to be a little peeved that my actions against prejudice against muslims was met by prejudice by muslims.
Fact is it should have been Out East and Rainbow Hamlets that should have seen the anger and set this one-off up themselves.
Too all you gay people in the east end, im sorry but you need to move.
The organisation that are there to protect you do not care about you, they are cowards who are unwilling to defend your rights.
It seems its ok to march against white christian homophobes, but not against any other.
Utter disgrace,
I agree , i know it can be difficult whatever your criteria but not impossible . Anyhow i won't be going into that hate zone again, its a dump anyhow. This cancellation gives the green light to bigots/muslim racists.
Scott, that's what has happened. It's the reason why there are a fraction of gay bars in the east end compared with 10 years ago. Yet elsewhere in London gay bars are thriving. One of my neighbours was a bangladeshi lesbian — and even she got out of the east end because it was becoming so islamized.
Well why dont EDL have a gay march and be open and honest?
Why not call it the Gay Defense League.
In my opinion,I don't think it is ever possible to organise or participate in a march/protest etc without at least one person taking part/organising who has an opinion the majority do not want to be associated with. I still think the march should go ahead as long as they are a very small minority. The overall message is surely more important than a couple of pillocks? The student protests had them but it still went ahead. I think now the Pride march on Apr 2 is cancelled it will give the wrong message to homophobes everywhere that the LGBT community is weak. Sometimes oppressors need a punch in the face – either figuratively or properly to realise they can't get away with it. Again, just my opinion! Sian
If it was just one, it might not be a problem, but I wouldn't be surprised if the bunch of brown shirts organising the march were the self same people who were putting up the stickers.
They have deceived everyone.
Frankly, they should probably be in the frame for all the muggings and attacks as well
The way they have misled people is disgusting. I hope they get their comeuppance.
I was away campaigning in Australia when I was asked to support East London Gay Pride. It seemed a good initiative and a reasonable request, so I agreed. On learning about the EDL links, I withdrew my support. I accept that some people supporting East London Gay Pride did so for good motives and with no links or sympathy with the EDL. This whole saga does not reflect well on the LGBTI communities. Anyone who is interested can read my full statement here: http://bit.ly/fTtnhn
Thankyou for that enlightened statement Peter.
There is a lot of casual racism on the LGBT community maybe this would be a good time to address it.
That's as may be
However, there isn't an equivalent organisation in the Gay community to the East London Mosque, an organisation which has hosted countless homophobic hate preachers, called their critics "Islamophobes", and is in receipt of millions of pounds of public money.
Gays haven't been stickering "Muslim free zones".
71% of Gays aged 16-24 don't believe that Islam should be outlawed, but 71% of Muslims in that age group responding to the Policy Exchange survey supported the criminalisation of homosexuality.
That's what makes one issue a priority.
Gays haven't been stickering "Muslim free zones"….. probably by the brown shirts organising the march
What next – we all climb to the top of Big Ben and jump off like Muslim clerics demand – well we bend over and take it sexually why not have our spins removed and roll over completely – Never thought we'd be sold out by the people who are supposed to represent and defend us – Well Now I will be signing up to any group who will defend my right to live without fear – Just because Muslims bully their way into every society doesn't mean we have to take it – come on we supposed to be men!
I am very THANKFUL to OutEast, Imaan and Rainbow Hamlets. This march would've been a shambles. A pride march always will be political and a pride march organised by EDL members would not help the local East End community some of us live in. If we are trying to solve these problems why did we need a march so quickly appearing simply reactionary? Why would you ban Unite Against Fascism from such a march? (Maybe because you are a member of the EDL?)
To Pride London & Peter Tatchell – why did you blindly support this random "group of friends" without further checks?
I would like the East End to unite and perhaps join behind OutEast's Hackney Pride March which they revived last year and was a great success. This won't be seen as a simple reaction but as an event with a strong political message to the community.
Although now not necessary, I would like Imaan to reveal their further info about other organisers.
Come on now lets cut the BS. UAF has long since abandoned its principles.
I agree protest against the EDL is legitimate.
But UAF has been silent on any fascist groups that do not have white skin.
It is united against white fascism.
THE uaf has been taken over by SWP dolts, who know they can never win electorally and so instead like to foment violent revolution.
Thus UAF is a racist group, which I will never again support.
thats been known for years, only now people are taking the blinkers off.
All this shows is that Muslims are the only ones allowed to protest in Tower Hamlets.
What kind of message is this giving.
Since when did we become people that we dictated to by other groups. We Used to defy other groups to make our stand so what changed? When did we become so spineless we couldn't tell opposing groups they were not wanted?
No, that's not what it shows. EDL had a protest scheduled in June 2010 against The Troxy holding a conference with avowedly anti-semitic and homophobic speakers. The council made The Troxy close down their conference rather than have 5000 EDL descend on Tower Hamlets.
And it's not about numbers. EDL London Division go to leaflet for EDL outside East London Mosque whenever they like. They are not scared of the crowds of muslims who gather round them, despite one of the EDL lads being stabbed there.
If EDL makes a decision to come to Tower Hamlets, it will. And we will not be decieved like last time, when the islamo-fascists just moved their conference from The Troxy to a hotel in Edgware Road at the last minute.
Wherever these islamo-fascists are, we will go there to protest. But there are towns around Britain crying out for EDL to visit. That's why there are demos in Blackburn and Blackpool in the next two weeks. And members of the Gay Division will be going to those demos
I think we should protest against Out East and Rainbow Hamlets they are clearly useless and lie about who they are supposed to represent.
IT should be evident to all by now that these groups do not represent lgbt people. They are essentially homophobic.
UAF supporters protested ALONGSIDE Anjem Choudary last June at a Sharia Law demonstration. There has been no apology, or any attempt to discipline – or expell – the guilty UAF members. UAF continues to share platforms with extremist hate preachers. Out East has no problem working with UAF.
Rainbow Hamlets is happy to work with the ELM, yet has never asked for an apology for speeches and peachers inciting murder on the mosque's premises. Why?
UAF should not be involved in any LGBT event until it acknowledges how offensively it has behaved.
While I am relieved to see the EEGP postponed, I also want to see the same questions asked of other LGBT community leaders and organisers. Out East must not be allowed to think the inquisition is a one way street.
I have to agree with that.
It saddens me to say it, but there is objective proof that not just the UAF but all the major left-wing organisations in Britain have been colluding with islamo-fascism:
Here's the proof that the UAF & muslims went from rioting in Whitechapel to Westminster to support Anjem Choudary:
But of course, UAF do not respond to such muslim-led anti-sharia campaigns, nor did they ever respond to Tatchell & gay muslims demanding UAF stop glorifying the homophobic Muslim Council of Britain.
It's amazing that these communists are "determinists" – yet they seem to think that their actions are not going to determine a counter-reaction.
Well this goes to show that we at the EDL are the only ones fighting against islamic bigotry and homophobia. We suggest that the queers who have been let down by the self appointed and self loading gay "campaigners" to join us. Unlike the leftists/islamists we do not discriminate!
what the feck is a leftist? are you saying all left wing people are prejudiced?
Alert – daily mail logic has been detected – alert
The hard left certainly are, besides who call's anyone who does not agree with them as extreme right wingers, racists, fascists and all that BS?
I doubt that Vladimir Lenin would be pro islamic extremism and homophobia.
After the Russian revolution for a few years Russia had the best gay rights laws in the world. But it didn't last long. And the communists in Britain have shown they have no real support for gay rights — but they do have support for islamic fascism.
Well it was the Stalinists that were homophobic, not the original revolutionaries. The original revolutionaries were also killed by stalin.
'@Scott…….Why do you continue with this singling out of one religious group when the homophobic problem exists with all religious. Indeed we have yet to see any Islamists in court for trying to subvert British Equality Laws as the Christians have. There have been 5 cases over the last two years where christians have tried to prove they should be above British law. They lost in all cases. We have yet to se any such from any other faith, even though adhereants to other faiths also run businesss and work in positions where they have to deal with Gay citizens. When was the last time Ali whatever in the corner shop refused to serve you because you are queer? Answers on a post stamp please.
@ Scott…No-one is going to accuse you of being a leftie thats for sure….I think he is saying that leftists are apologists for Islamic Homophobia much the same way as far right facists are apologists for christian homophobia. He is wrong of course leftists tend to be rather inclusive and anti facist.
@ Paulo Silvo…. so all of a sudden you ARe a member of EDL. I hope those who argued for your fake "pride" demo will now see how cklose they came to tacit approval of the facist far right and very nearly fell for their scam.
why do UAF not oppose fascist groups who are not white then?
I am a leftie actually paddy, I hate every single religion, while I respect their right to believe what they want, I in no way respect what they believe.
Also, I have campaigned against christian homophobia, all im saying is why do we not equally campaign against muslim homophobia? Or sikh homophobia?
This pride march had absolutely nothing to do with us and you should stop being so paranoid mate, we are no longer in the 80's with skinheads marching on the streets, now we have UAF's and islamists blessed by the likes of you who are stuck in the past romanticizing about some sort red revolution.
good fcuk off
We suggest that the queers who have been let down by the self appointed and self loading gay "campaigners" to join us.
Oh here we go!!! Wasn't that what the whole event was about anyway Paulo?
Rubbish, Paolo.
Rational People will turn to the National Secular Society, which works to ensure no religious view has privilege in the public sphere. http://www.secularism.org.uk
It is curious though that we do seem to be the only country (England) that if a political party or group has the words the English or National, then they seem to automatically be far-right.
The National Secular Society was not able to get The Troxy closed down as a venue for hate speech — but EDL did. EDL made sure Zakir Naik did not get into the UK to preach to 2 football stadiums full of muslims. What did NSS do to stop Naik?
We've waited far too long for The Great and The Good to sort out the mess with islamic fundamentalism in Britain. They've done nothing since 1989 when hundreds of muslims marched through Manchester and Birmingham threatening to kill him (tools of Ayatollah Khomeini, that renowned moderate muslim).
EDL is proving that it can destroy UAF (that organisation is dead), and HNH is completely out-paced in support by the support for EDL. EDL will bring about the complete destruction of the BNP (which is why the BNP hates EDL).
THe point is, the philosophy behind the NSS is rational. Human rights are not 'english' values, they are universal. Your supporters use violence against innocent people. And in too many speeches, your spokespeople singleout muslims as a group.
If you're gonna do it , do it right (pardon the pun) . An East End Pride should be an inclusive and visible event RESPECT THE DIVERSITY , better to postpone and organise something properly than to be coerced into a subtle promotion of EDL values and their agenda .
It's a shame nothing could be salvaged from this, but it's better then having a pride that's marred by the EDL.
Someone fancy reorganising something? (Trots need not apply)
We need the march but the march needs different organisers.
Yet another Pride crashes and burns due to the constant infighting and bickering between the queens. If these people put as much into the event as they did trying to scratch each others eyes out, we'd all have a great show.
I guess it was inevitable after the EDL link was discovered, although I do hope that a Pride march should go ahead at some time in the future, whilst keeping out the extremists.
But I doubt it will ever happen now.
I guess it wont be too long before Rebecca Shaw and her chums urge LGBT people to stay out of Tower Hamlets altogether, in order to avoid more "community tension"..
The far right facist facade has been cancelled. That doesn't mean that genuine GLBs of East London cant organise a wholly inclusive gay parade and festival where everyone will feel welcome including religious fanatsists, Poles Asians Afro Brits ….in fact all shades of British life free form any political or religious connotations. The only way Gay people can persuade these disparit groups who oppose us is to show them that there is nothing to fear from people who are born different, be it colour or sexual orientation.
Common sense has won the day!
how do you suggest we challenge the homophobia of the far right Paddy?
Or the homophobia of the muslims?
@ scott…certainly not by joining them in deceitful demos on the pretence that it is in our interest.
There already is a pride in east london.
And once more, with feeling.
The Police Domestic Extremism Unit investigated EDL last year and concluded EDL IS NOT A FAR-RIGHT ORGANISATION.
But of course ol' Paddy in Ireland knows more about what's happening in the east end of London than anyone else, and he knows more about domestic extremism than the Police's specialist unit.
What a pathetic bigot he is.
@edl……. Bigotry…….The predominant usage in modern English refers to persons hostile to those of differing race, ethnicity, nationality, inter-regional prejudice, gender and sexual orientation, from Wikipedia
So the Tories come in and the only thing they manage to do is to divide and conquer, creating and nurturing an atmosphere where bigotry can thrive and spread. Typical right-wing. Bigotry of all kinds exist in the gay community, and a bigotted individual will easily fall in their trap. The EDL is a front for bigotry and anyone who fell in this trap of deceit must wake up.
Yes, that's right blame the Tories. Anything else you want to blame on them? Unless you hadn't noticed, we're talking about homophobia in Islam. It's on the increase, probably in part due to a growing Muslim population in the UK. Have you forgotten who presided over the immigration fiasco during the last 13 years?! More Left-wing nonsense – take a long hard look at the mess Labour left this country in after 13 years before you make such baseless comments.
It was under Labour that mass immigration brought increases in homophobia to area. Unless they tighten UK Citizenship rules to include the total acceptance of the laws allowing the LGBT community the right to go about it's business without hatred then will this change?
People don't have to agree with it but they do have to accept it as law. If they don't them no entry.
It's pathetic to blame the Tories for this.
Is it "mass" immigration really your issue? Or is it just immigration? Do you forget the 50s, when immigration policies defended by the Tories gave us an influx of cheap labour from the Caribbean area, to work in our factories? Opened their legs for the capitalist demands, but closed their eyes to the cultural racism that existed. Apart from not knowing history, what's your real beef with immigration?
One side of my family tree were Jewish Immigrants that helped promoted a thriving industry in the East End, as did Many other Jewish immigrants so I know the valve of having such a diverse population. However in the 13 years Labour were in office they allowed 'mass' immigration in the believe those people who vote Labour.
Many of those we couldn't stop, Eastern Europeans, for example but Berberts:
Is it right that so many homophobic people should have be allowed to come here without proper checks on how they would cope with openly LGBT people, many themselves from various parts of the world, living our communities?
We all know Labours apalling record on LGBT asylum seekers but these people have every right to be here and we have every right to demand that like us they're safety is protected.
So Jock, according to your own explanation and argument, I can assume you must feel that few people are better positioned than yourself to talk about Homophobia brought in by Jewish immigration, isn't it? It helps your industry to thrive when you need cheap labour, and you think we're gullible to let you blame them for being where you want them to be?
Not for the first time do you not answer questions and not for the first time does you rcomment make absolutely no sense. You bang on about immigration so when I talk about my knowledge of immigration of a family of Many Many years ago you twist it into homophobia.
My God man your an idiot.
Make hypocritical accusations and engage in ad hominems = Lose the argument.
Against you fail to answer the question put to you and again make patheitc comments that simply don't make any sense.
Very Sad.
It's about debate. Something you clearly know Nothing about.
People who know how to debate know that there is no winners or losers its about opinion.
Of course you come across to immature to understand that.
Another one done with!
Words making no sense? Desperatety reading and answering all possible messages in PinkNews website? Priceless.
Why do you think CallMeDave engaged in that most controversial speech criticising multiculturalism on the very same day of an EDL march?
They're the two faces of the same right-wing propaganda, and the racists amongst us fall for it every time.
Please, you don't need to tell me about that speech. It needed making, and it was made in Munich for a reason. You can get all 'conspiracy theorist' about its timing, but frankly, that's missing the point. Any other evidence to back up your argument? No didn't think so.
Why? Don't you want to find a link between this right-wing gay parade and the Tories? You don't need to go much further than your own irritation with my arguments. They manage to make the gullible defend them after all the damage they've inflicted through decades of homophobic propaganda.
So you have no evidence, thought not! You're clearly a single-issue kind of person (the Tories) who isn't interested in engaging in the real issue i.e. homophobia in Islam.
Single issue? Moi? If you want to talk about multiple issues, why are you so crossed when I include Tory homophobia? Homophobia is homophobia, everywhere. Tory, Islamist, or whatever. But you seem not bothered by the decades of Tory homophobic propaganda. Only Islam interests you, it appears… single issue, moi?
@Beberts: the point is we're talking about tackling homophobia in Islam in this thread, most notably in the East End. What on earth has that got to do with the Tories, other than your spurious allegations? And, yes, on this thread it is Islam that interests me. But let's argue about the Tories, that's far more useful, shall we? Good Lord.
He blames the Tories but I do believe most of these boroughs are Labour controlled.
So why you accuse me of being single-issue minded when that's exactly what you're doing? Islam Islam Islam… find something else to do… right-wing propaganda won't give you freedom from homophobia. If you want to fight the real issue inside any religion, you need to face the scriptures, the dogmas, not the sense of identity.
@Beberts I think the word is 'rumbled'. It appears you have form in simply blaming everything on the Tories. Hilarious. I've said it once and now, for the final time, the thread is about homophobia in Islam, not the Tories so that's why I'm focusing on it. Your original post blames the Tories for this situation in East london which is, frankly, laughable.
You can laugh as much as you want, but wiil only be able to sustain an argument when you really include multiple issues in the formula. At the moment you seem to be lost only in one argument: Islam Islam Islam… Get inside it, and see for yourself the links that exist between Islam and the Tories, and how decades of Tory propaganda aided Homophobia to thrive in Islamic communities.
@Beberts – so now you're saying the Tories are responsible for Muslim homophobia because of their 'homophobic propaganda' in the past? What about Islam in other countries, are Muslims there somehow less homophobic because they haven't been 'exposed to homophobic Tory propaganda'? I'm sorry, I don't buy your argument – which lacks a shred of evidence – one bit. Islam preaches homophobia, period.
I'm a Labour Party member, but I can see that the Tories have out gay MPs and have acted to extend equality legislation to protect Gays.
By contrast, the East London Mosque hosted an event in which a hate preacher invited the audience to "Spot the Fag". It has had numerous preachers who have called for Gays to be executed.
So, in the great scheme of things, the Tories are less of a problem than the Islamists.
Beberts, Cameron spoke out far, far more boldly about islam in 2005:
The Labour government wanted to make islamic homophobia a sign of islamic extremism in 2009 – and the muslims cried "but that would make us all extremists" (which is true in far too many cases, as Quilliam exposed last summer). So the craven "socialists" dropped it from Contest2.
I'm an ex-communist who is so pissed off with the Left for not standing up to islamo-fascism. Tatchell has been sounding the warning bell for 15 years. I suppose you think he is a right-wing bigot too? In 1995 he called islamic fundamentalism "the new Dark Ages".
His warnings have consistently fallen on deaf ears on the Left. So quelle surprise that it is the Right who are taking action. IT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN LIKE THIS.
Good, it's about time us gays stood up against fascists!
It's only a shame that gays don't stand up against the islamists!
Quite. Jason has completely missed the point. What hope is there?!
This could have been a march to stand up to both but it seems we have been denied that right because of Two very bitter groups.
Its bad enough that there are many so called "christian" leaders judging and condemning us which in turn contribute to homophobia and violent crimes committed against us, among other things, but really, are there any moderate muslim leaders who don't condemn homosexuality? If there are, why aren't they speaking up in our defence? Do they also condemn the execution of gay people in the middle east? If not, why?
Now this was happening back in 2005, its way much worse at present, so soon enough east end gays will be leaving the area, mostly now that the "gay organizations" have abandoned them.
Fine have an edl gay march just be honest about it
EEGP was nothing to do with us. We weren't invited, remember?
Weren't all invited here either, but we can all see you've turned up in numbers
So why are you getting pissy about the march being called off?
Why James? Because while the homophobe islamists will cary on their agenda we are were fighting each other.
Fight the anti gay people but not with racism it makes you as bad as them
I'm not getting pissy about it being called off. I would rather that there had been no connection (past or present) between EDL and EEGP. I'd welcome Imaan, or Outrage or the Whitechapel Anarchist Group organising a gay pride demo in the east end. And I'd encourage them to do it somwhere like Altab Ali park not tucked away in a nice rich white enclave down by the river (I saw Dame Mirren is getting all pissy about what's going to happen to her park when a huge sewage pipe is dug under it).
The frigging EEGP demo had nothing to do with EDL.
I'm glad now for the opportunity to see if We-Want-The-Caliphate Imaan step up to the plate. They destroyed this EEGP, let's see them make good on stopping this islamic homophobia.
Meanwhile, I'll be going to Blackburn on April 2nd for our national demo. It looks like the EDL shop will start selling rainbow flags soon too.
If the EDL had the nuts to say this is a gay edl march they could still go ahead. Its all the deceit and trickery like they are ashamed or something
When EDL said they would demonstrate against the homophobic and anti-semitic hate preachers coming to The Troxy last year, it ended with The Troxy (finally) signing up to a "no place for hate" contract with the council.
In the previous years Hizb ut Tahrir held their conferences in The Troxy. No protest from all those moderate muslims. No protest from UAF. No protest from Searchlight. No protest from the (ooh so scary) Whitechapel Anarchist Group.
And once The Troxy cancelled the hate conference, the EDL cancelled their demo. And what did the UAF do? Against the council's wishes they held a demo, where the councillor responsible for getting the hate conference cancelled was booed. The UAF demo (naturally) ended in a riot by muslims in Whitechapel. The police ran off, and threw a cordon round Aldgate (to protect the City), leaving any random white person in Whitechapel to be attacked.
The muslims (carrying UAF placards) then marched to westminster to join Islam4UK.
And your point is?
All I'm saying is march but under the edl banner so those who want to support you can do so and those who dont can aviod like the plague
And my point is that EDL has NO NEED to do anything surreptious. When EDL wants to go somewhere and do a demo, it does it. The lads in the EDL London Division OFTEN go leafletting outside of East London Mosque, day or night, whenever it suits them. They go there handing out literature inviting muslims to join EDL — and even though one of those lads got stabbed by a muslim for doing that, they just right back and do it. And for the record, one of those lads who used to do that leafletting was mixed-race (half african, half irish).
In my discussions with the Met they begged me to get them to stop leafletting there, because the police were scared that the muslims would kill one of them.
It's not the EDL that says muslims cannot join. It is the muslims and the Left who want to make sure all muslims (moderates and extremists) are lumped together.
"Rainbow Hamlets and Out East an Imaan"
I want to hear what these grouos are doing to counter islamic homophobia.
Because we should not forget what a posisonly bigotted cult islam remains.
They don't do anything David against it, they just make excuses for it.
oh boy, can we stop with all the members were EDL !! or it was a EDL march, as it only appears that those on the left wish to point this out (or outeast/rainbow hamlets supporters) and not actually address what this march has done…which is bring to the front of people's worries, about homopbia in the east end, something, whcich appears to have been around for years, with local groups not doing anything about it, remember, these people did not get voted in, to run these groups, …why not if your not happy set up your own??? it just a thought, if your feeling your not getting the support you deserve, create your own and fight the bigots
Typical… far right associated or not, average joe ( or gay ) should make sure it was neither a EDL or any form of hatered march…. Just a GAY happy one, the people organising it dont have all the control over the event once its started so far right or not they didnt necessairly have control. But homophobes have got control as its now been cancelled…. and as for the gays that didnt support it based on their OWN BELIEFS AND OPINIONS ( not the hear say of the organisers ) then there no better then the homophobes and are all thats wrong with the current gay community – were nothing but push overs with no fight or stammina for our equality!
The police domestic extremism unit investigated EDL throughout 2010, and concluded "EDL is not a far-right organisation". But don't let facts
And for all that, EDL had nothing to do with EEGP – we have (unfortunately) bigger fish to fry than these homophobic posters that were seen in Derby last July, Whitechapel last October, and now all over London.
Blame the mainstream media and the gay media for suppressing this islamic homophobia. Muslim extremist websites (like the "islamic standard") have been proudly boasting of the stickers and the muslim protests against Gay Pride.
The feelings of disappointment and, in some cases anger, at the fact this event has been cancelled are palpable. It's clear that there was a lot of support for this event from local LGBT people. It's likely the vast majority of these people were tolerant and sensible with no links to questionable organisations. Can I suggest that the local LGBT groups recognise and capitalise on this, and step in to ensure that a march can still take place. Failing that, maybe a bunch of local residents could do what the original EEGP group did, and band together to make it happen?
Hang on, EEGP is criticised for not denouncing the EDL.
Has the East London Mosque condemned the mayor of tower hamlets?
Have outeast, Rainbow Hamlets or Imaan condemned the east london mosque for holding speakers inciting people to kill gays?
Why cant we oppose right wing extremism by non muslims, and right wing extremism by Muslims?
Please someone answer, without just going "yeah well your a fascist". No i am not. Im not anti immigration. I couldnt care less about someones race. I dont like religion much, and I hold contempt for all of them apart from shinto (which is gay friendly, although still a made up fairy tale).
Rainbow Hamlets have previously said that they have to be sensitive to the muslim community with regards to homophobic attacks.
blooming heck thats disgraceful, this group should be shut down.
Freedom to hate is less of a right than freedom not to be beaten up.
so rainbow hamlets do a double whammy by not supporting victims of homophobia whilst at the same time purporting that homophobia is endemic with islamic culture , hence we must be sensitive to it . So homophobia and islamophobia when they proclaim to be against both. Who are these clowns???
In what way is sensitivity shown when a member of the LGBT community is attacked?
I find it really silly the way they have described 'the personal vendetta' then named the groups and individuals. It just looks childish. 'We wanted to do this but THEY wouldnt let us!' we are all adults here.
Becky, yes we are all adults, however, the event wouldnt have been canceled if the LGBT community worked together on this event. If they worked together as they were invited to do so from the beginning instead of battling against it, this event would have gone ahead and been VERY successful. It all comes down to ego's…
and profits.
Once again, we are proving to the world that the GLBT community can be its own worst enemy ! In-fighting and petty disputes among diffrent gay organisations and groups lead us nowhere !! It only serves as food for our opponents to use against us ……
Exactly, this wasn't brought down by "dodgy connections" but petty jealousy, in-fighting and homophobia. I think everyone who was going to attend should do so anyway, show the haters that we (the true and proud GLBT community, not the armchair gay rights advocates on here) will not go quietly into the night!
I have three questions for the power that be…
Does the LGBT community have the right to be angry/outraged at the homophobic posters that has appeared around the East End?
We are part of the local community not apart from it so what thought was ever giving to these posters offending the LGBT community, being these protests have been stopped in case they offend whoever put them up?
Now that Out East and Rainbow Hamlets have quashed our attempt, Our Right to protesting about it, What are they visibly going to do to ensure that these posters stop going up and offending the LGBT community?
Leave it out, fella. The march has been cancelled, and as august a gay figure as Peter Tatchell had already withdrawn his support from it, as the event had been infiltrated heavily by EDF – a noxious and racist organisation of boneheads and Daily Mail ignoramuses.
It is totally shameful that a number of gay men have jumped on the EDF platform. But then, racism has often been an ugly side to the gay scene.
sh*t the french energy firm is a racist organisation! Who woulda thunk it!
and to think I get my gas from them…
Who knew..
I'm sorry are you saying my questions are not valid?
and no I will not 'leave it out'. Not everyone saw this as an EDL whatever. Someone us have a spine that can distance ourselves and not be like sheep.
"But then, racism has often been an ugly side to the gay scene."
Yeah, your probably.
"August a gay figure"???
The man is an interfering, self-publicising, lefty twat.
My boyfriend (of 10 years) isn't white. My brothers are both married to black women. One of my mixed-race nieces is a dyke. I've fought against racists all my life, and converted white racists into having Yemeni muslims as their best friends. I even considered marrying a black muslim woman so she wouldn't have to leave Britain to go back to her hell-hole of a country (then I met her viciously homophobic brothers who also lived here, and decided that I was not being intimately connected with that family).
But of course, you are against prejudice, but have no problem pre-judging the people in EDL.
Are these the images of a racist organisation:
Congratulations to all the self-hating gays who have destroyed this, who needs homophobic bigots when our community has this much self-hatred and jealousy. Why don't we just give up and let the haters kill us with immunity. To all who attacked this event, you should all be ashamed of yourselves, you have done nothing but harm the GLBT community.
Which is worse?
The EDL's islamophobia.
Or the muslim cult's homophobia?
All I know is that islam is a freely chosen, voluntary belief system.
i want to know what Rainbow Hamlets and Out East an Imaan are doing to combat the toxic islamic bigotry so widely present in the East End of London.
While the muslim cult calls for our death, no LGBT person can rest.
Islaim is the enemy of LGBT people.
We must fight the toxic bigotry of islam whenever we encounter it.
They are both as bad as each other
OutEast and Rainbow Hamlets along with Imaan are doing as much as they can whilst sitting around the table inflating their own ego's, dividing the LGBT community and slandering people that have good intentions. Terry Stewart and Jack Gilbert should be ashamed of themselves. We should all be calling for them to resign or be removed from their un-elected positions!!
Coming next to a neighbourhood near you – the religion of peace. Here's a brief roundup of random acts of kindness for the past two days:
2011.03.15 (Nangarhar, Afghanistan) – The Taliban plant a bomb in a classroom, killing a teacher.
2011.03.15 (Pattani, Thailand) – Three men sitting outside an auto repair shop are riddled with bullets by Muslim 'insurgents'.
2011.03.14 (Kunduz, Afghanistan) – Four children are among three dozen innocents dismembered by a massive suicide blast at a recruitment center.
2011.03.14 (Plateau, Nigeria) – Five family members are among six Christian villagers slaughtered by Muslim raiders.
2011.03.14 (Diyala, Iraq) – Eleven Iraqi security personnel are blown to bits by a Fedayeen suicide bomber.
2011.03.13 (Helmand, Afghanistan) – Six civilians are taken down by Taliban roadside bombers.
almost all the victims of the terrorism you (and I) deplore were Muslims themselves. There are far more attacks on moderate muslims, secular muslims and muslim bystanders than there ever have been on western christians in the history of islamic terrorism. Think on that for a moment.
The extremist muslims we fear and condemn and also feared and condemned by ordinary muslims.
When are they? Surveys of the opinions of "ordinary" muslims reveal extraordinary hatred and prejudice on their part.
And in the list above it is only Christians, and Muslims who have been viewed to have conspired with them, who have copped it. Islam needs a speedy Reformation, the Koran a hasty edit. (Although we could end up with it being about as chunky as TV Quick.)
It really didn't care who the people that organised it were. It doesn't matter. How many people stand behind the organisation of London Pride? 100? Perhaps one of them is a facist, perhaps another one is a communist. This doesn't prevent it… from being a fun event where the whole community can come together. Pride is not a right-wing, nor a left-wing nor an event close to any political party. Trust me, you will find voters for any party in Pride, yet it doesn't "taint" the event in it sell. What has been done is a division of our community, which is just awful
Scott asked.. "Have outeast, Rainbow Hamlets or Imaan condemned the east london mosque for holding speakers inciting people to kill gays?"
I don't think so, Scott. I have certainly not read any reports stating Rainbow Hamlets have ever criticised the actions of the East London Mosque.
For them to do so would, of course, raise serious questions as to whether or not they were breaching their chosen dhimmi status.
Islam won't survive into the second half of this century. The rational people in its ranks will walk away, and the rest will be wiped out fighting others or amongst themselves. It's a political system borne of blood, immersed in blood, and ultimately drowned by blood.
In my life, I have portested on several occassions against Christian homophobia (Twice against the pope, against conversion therapy…) and never was the protest attacked as being anti-Christian. I am disgusted by Islamophobia but also about the double standard that seems to apply here.
It is Double standards I totally agree!
Funny how the comments section is suddenly full of EDL supporters isn't it? Not exactly representative of their popularity in the world at large. Seriously, if you need any convincing of the EDL agenda, and what they believe in, take a look at YouTube, take a look at their groups on Facebook, look at what they're saying when They think only people who agree with them are watching, and ask yourself if you'd want to be associated with an event they'd use for political gain. This comment obviously not addressed to the EDL members on here because we know what your answer would be! Just look and judge for yourself is all I'm saying.
We're here because lots of false allegations are being made about us. If the EEGP had gone ahead with us being not invited and UAF being not invited then EDL would have had a lot less publicity.
Let's see pro-Caliphate IMAAN now organise a demo to show that lots of straight muslims are as tolerant of gay people, as gay people are as tolerant of muslims.
Never been in the EDL, but strongly considering it now. I'd consider anything now, to make sure that this country is protected from the cancer of Islam.
So the message is loud and clear "you can only be a gay if you vote Labour". The thought police have taken complete control.
These gay groups are taking public money (including tax money from right wingers) to dictate who is allowed to be a gay or not. If it was a gay pride event, it should have included gay people, whatever their political affilliations. If you represent gay people it should include any old fascist GAY person. If you want to only include left wing people you should run another organisation.
It is similar to those feminists who couldn't bring themsleves to admit Margaret Thatcher was the first female PM. Childish and utterly pathetic.
I dont think anyone accused Thatcher of not being a woman. I think what they thought she was was a homophobic anti woman cnut
emmm. wasn't Indira Ghandi the first female prime minister or was it Golda Miere
yea i was right Indira Ghandi became prime minister of India 1966 Golda Meir became prime minister of Israel 1968.
it was actually Siramavo Bandaranaike of Sri Lanka who became the first female prime minister in 1960
oops….sorry never heard of her…i was still in primary school in 1960 , so you will excuse my ignorance…..ta.
I meant of UK, and how exactly can you be anti woman if you are a woman? Do you have to burn a bra and sit and sh*t on Greenham Common to be a feminist?
Remember this one?
Zero tolerance for homosexuality among muslims. I can't see any moderate muslims here!
This was a very very worrying study.
If you read the piece one of the telling points about British Muslims was high Unemployment… One thing it didn't do tho was explain why there is such a difference in the attitudes of British Muslims and European Muslims. Very Puzzling. Is the attitudes of British xtians rubbing off on them. I would Hardly say it is worrying tho Scott, altho the lack of childbirth amongst indigenous British women will exacerbate the problem.
face fact , they hate us want us to die in the worst most painful way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ross_Parker
This is excelent news. Now hopefully all Cities will follow.
Hopefully, you will get hit by a car.
or even a big bus…
With a rainbow flag down the side.
and u get cancer
Or get blown up by islamic terrorists.
So the muslims have won.
Perhaps instead of a pride event, the east end mosques will welcome LGBT into their temples of intolerance with open arms. Oh, but that would be against Islamic teaching.
From the start the campaign against the East End Gay Pride had all the hallmarks of committees and business people trying to retain absolute control over the Pride parades, and that they would only be delivered on their terms.
"Pride" is now nothing more than a business tool to make money and has little or nothing to do with equality and rights for the LGBT Community. The same has happened at other Pride festivals across the country: hijacked by the committee and devoid of true purpose.
Similar things happened in the seventies in the US when post Stonewall groups wouldn't allow members who were trans people. In fact unless you wore a suit, shirt and tie and looked 'normal' you weren't welcome. The idea was to act invisible, be invisible and don't rock the boat and let the politicians make all the decisions. Fat chance. Worse that these groups actively tried to tear each other down. Guess nothing changes then.
All I can say is if anyone wants to walk down that street on that day and just happens to be carrying a pink flag so what? You can't stop that. You can't stop people going for a walk.
I hope loads turn up regardless.
It is a free country, isn't it?
Islam given preferential treatment yet again.
Gay pride in victoria park in the 90's a black
Organiser got beaten up by White men with baseball bats when he was
Meanwhile last year 2 car loads of muslims turned up at The George & Dragon and went inside and attacked the customers.
Both attacks are wrong and should be stamped out. Just like racist violence should be stamped out — whether it is the murder of Kriss Donald by gangs of racist muslims, or Stephen Lawrence. Yesterday was the anniversary of Kriss Donald's death, and I'll bet there's no-one here who even knows who he is. Yet I'll bet everyone knows who Stephen Lawrence is. Now, why are racist murders of white men by muslim gangs dropped down the memory hole?
Is that the guy that was murdered in scotland . If so i remember hearing bout it ,when i was in ireland at the time visiting my nan, but it was considered insignificant by the english media . Stephan lawrence was righfully given media exposure but this horrific crime was ignored. Would not have even known about it if i had not been out of the country.
Yep both bad and I found out some more stuff about
a black guy who was murdered by racists asians. The new NF/BNP has brown skin
Do we have an extremist islamic led media , why are these murders so underreported? I felt sick reading these articles . islam is given preferential treatment to any other community in this country.
There was an excellent piece on 4 Thought today with the writer, Douglas Murray, where he expressed the 'enough, enough, enough' sentiment that most people in this country and elsewhere in Europe feel towards Islam and Muslims.
I have had enough of Muslim homophobia and the preferential treatment most of them demand and often get.
It's because of Takiyya – a Koran-endorsed form of deception and lying to help Muslims get their way in a country until they have a proper foothold….
"Falsehoods told to prevent the denigration of Islam, to protect oneself, or to promote the cause of Islam are sanctioned in the Qur'an and Sunna, including lying under oath in testimony before a court, deceiving by making distorted statements to the media such as the claim that Islam is a "religion of peace". A Muslim is even permitted to deny or denounce his faith if, in so doing, he protects or furthers the interests of Islam, so long as he remains faithful to Islam in his heart."
Referring to a blatantly racist rant against Arabs (NB not all Arabs are Muslims and not All Muslims are Arabs) just goes to prove you and your fascists cohorts are the ones who are clearly lying to spread your hate.
just seen Jack Gilbert on bbc london news, am sorry, but was that not a opportunity to denounce homophobia, no, just another chance to denounce, the eegp organisers, so i have to really agree now, with everyone that said, all these people do is sit in committe meetings, lucky he had a suit ready for the cameras !
I wonder how much cash OutEast, Rainbow Hamlets and Imaan are in line for from Lutfur Rahman and his cronies in Tower Hamlets? That can be the only motivation for their toadying to Rahman and the ELM and their abandonment of queers in TH.
Not one of these organisations lifted a finger when there were homophobic stickers appearing in the East End, and horrific homophobic attacks occurring.
It seems that in the end only the EDL is the only organization defending society against islamic extremism. The left yet again has betrayed the gay community.
Excellent comment Clive!
In 2005 pakistanis muslims murdered Isiah Young-Sam in a racist attack. I have no time for the edl but this maybe a template that they are now using in the east end. Dont wait until someone is murdered
Some thugs murder an innocent man from which you deduce that "maybe a template that they are now using in the east end" what ridiculous conjecture!
Perhaps I should conclude that the German legal system/state condones the murder of Muslims:
The husband of a pregnant Egyptian woman killed in a German courtroom has described how her alleged attacker stabbed her to death in front of him.
Watch this about racist asians
Maybe Darcus Howe made it all up. Or maybe we shouldn't watch it, because it will make it all go away!
Shhhh, Out East and Rainbow Hamlets will stop us having the freedom to watch stuff like that.
I wonder why they're so afraid of the truth. Maybe theyre scared that some will come out
Nice. Right wing extremists from EDL seem to have their foot well in the door on this one then, and its sickening to see how easy it is for them to whip up a bit of support from gay people.
We often discuss on here the effects of American religious extremists preaching hate in Uganda and other African countries to uneducated people who take it in an believe it.
They do so because they have little or no education.
There is NO excuse for gay people in this country to be similarly deceived and manipulated by extremists in the way that EDL have found it so easy to do.
Yes there might be problems with Islamic extremists in this country, but Muslims are like most people in this world, by and large, and they just want a quiet life and to be left to get on with is.
It is the extremism that is wrong, be it Muslim, Christian, far right or far left.
You are boring. How many times do i have to say that we ARE NOT RIGHT WINGERS! Get a grip love.
but you are far right:
"…There is normally heavy policing of these demonstrations, due to the likelihood of violence. The cost of policing these demonstrations has ranged from £300,000[40] to £1 million.[35] Journalists that have covered EDL marches have received death threats,[71] for instance journalist Jason N. Parkinson from The Guardian wrote about receiving a death threat by email from someone he described as an EDL organiser, as well as death threats sent to Marc Vallée, a fellow journalist.[72] The National Union of Journalists also released a statement about journalists who had been intimidated after covering EDL demonstrations.[71]
Four specialist national police units involved in policing hooliganism, extreme violence, and terrorism are investigating the ED…"
"Four specialist national police units… are investigating the EDL…"
And the Police specialists concluded "EDL are not far-right extremists".
No one's spreading propaganda. These are facts "Sister Mary Clarence", from reliable news sources.
You don't want to know because you have an agenda both against western values and homosexuality.
If you had any credibility, you would name one Islamic country (other than the former Iraq) where homosexuality thrives in a state other than terrified secret.
We're waiting.
SMC I would have agreed with you 2 days ago but i saw this and have to say youre wrong.
Darcas Howe looked into racist asians in
2005 Those guys do not want peace and theyre bringing that sh*t to east london
I have experienced by both racism and homophobia from the Muslim community as has many friends I have known, yet we seem to not be able to say about it without being labelled.
Fact, just as a lot of the BNP are extremely racist a lot of Muslims are extremely racist. This is why you tend to find that the Muslim community is resented, mostly unfairly, by many people of culture and race (yes actual race).
When we have a multicultural society where many other people from different countries do so much to be a part of the community, most notably I have to say Chinese, Japanese etc seem to do so much to bring people together but plenty of others it is without a doubt that it is down to the Muslim religion and it's affects that seem to want to distance themselves from anybody else. Yes I know not all but I have to say a lot more than any other.
What i'm saying is that some muslims deserve the edl and I'm not defending them anymore
James I reiterate my previous statement:
"There is NO excuse for gay people in this country to be similarly deceived and manipulated by extremists in the way that EDL have found it so easy to do."
If you cannot separate the views of a few from the view of the many, where odes that leave us?
Some Muslims have some serious issues with gay people, but them some people who are not Muslims also have some serious issues with gay people. By your logic should we be marching through the East End against anyone who is non-Muslim.
If gay people want to march through the East End protesting against Muslims, and judging from the comments here some clearly do then can they not do that without being shored up by the EDL or the BNP or any other extremist faction?
If they do however, I expect that many of the people and business that signed up for East End Gay Pride won't go near it with a barge pole
Answered in the wrong place some muslims deserve the EDL
Ms Clarence,
"If gay people want to march through the East End protesting against Muslims, and judging from the comments here some clearly do then can they not do that without being shored up by the EDL or the BNP or any other extremist faction?"
I agree with you absolutely on that point. And as I have pointed out over and over again, EDL had nothing to do with EEGP. I would have known if any of my group had been involved. EDL is not totally anarchic – we discuss things with the leadership. And the police say "EDL is not extremist".
And let me tell you this, after speaking to Tommy today, if I want to have thousands of EDL marching through Tower Hamlets in defence of gay rights, he's told me they will be here. But personally I do not think that marches against communities is where EDL should be targetting our forces — it should be against IFE, Hizb ut Tahrir, Zakir Naik, etc. However, I am only one voice, and my tactics are not shared by everyone.
This unfortunate drama played by the hard left has divided our community and expose us even further to the homophobes who which to cleanse the East End of London from gay people, thanks to this self loading "gay campaigners" homophobe muslims will be assure that their attacks on us will go unchallenged.
We at the EDL LGBT forum aim to expose and campaign for our rights and stand up against intolerance.
Is this an alternative universe? Can this really be going on in the USA today?
This is a dangerous time for us I think. A message was spread around that area saying gay people can be excluded if an aggressive enough group say so. We tried to challenge that message, and were accused of racism and "islamophobia". In the end, those accusations won. Fair enough, if it was true that the march was motivated by anti-islam feeling then I would want no part in it. Regardless of that though, homophobia exists and the ramifications of being seen to give in to it might be far reaching.
Rightly or wrongly, we now either look powerless, spineless or like puppets in a war between the EDL and Islam. I cannot believe our so called spokespeople have allowed this to happen.
I sincerely hope that someone else, preferably with nothing to hide and with no anti-muslim affiliations, takes up the mantle and arranges another, demonstrably hate free, pride event to show the country we are not the playthings of the EDL and that we genuinely believe in combating homophobia on our own terms
If the left-wing had listened to Tatchell for the last 15 years, they would have taken up the mantle of defending gay rights, women's rights, human rights. Instead the Left did nothing but leave things to fester (probably because of their own internal racism that they wanted to conceal, or because they genuinely find islamic-fascism appealing).
15 years ago Tatchell was pointing out the murderous homophobia of Hizb ut Tahrir in UK universities. And then last year, another report came out showing the same thing. All that happened is that the vile views of Hizb ut Tahrir have now widely permeated through many muslim organisations (Quilliam says the vast majority of muslim organisations share exactly the same goals as Hizb ut Tahrir).
So, now Hizb ut Tahrir conferences only attract 1000 to 2000 British muslims (when just 7 years ago they attracted 10,000 British muslims). This is a party that is far more fascist than even the BNP.
Zakir Naik was invited to address 20k muslims!!!
Peter Tatchel IS the left wing FHS. Maybe you missed the fact that he distanced himself from the pride event precisely because of the suspicion that it was an EDL vehicle to cause maximum disorder.
EDL supporter – How many times do we have to say – we are not against muslims; we are against homophobia wherever it is and whoever espouses it. The EDL, as far as I can tell, is against the spread of Islam generally and the influence of Muslim people; it is an entirely different aim. If you don't back off, we will never be able to legitimately separate our perfectly legal, progressive anti-homophobic campaign from the accusations of "islamophobia" made against us, which have ruined this march and will ruin any others which you try to muscle in on.
Can you point me to one gay organisation that has been campaigning against muslim homophobia in the last 12 months? Where was the demonstration against Derby and Nottingham Gay Prides being picketed by muslim fundamentalists? Where was the demonstration organised by the hackneyed old gay politicos against the first appearance of the "Homos Heraus" stickers in July 2010, their 2nd appearance in October 2010.
EDL had nothing to do with East End Gay Pride. But the communist homos and the muslim homos stabbed in the back a genuine effort by local east end homos to have a gay pride march in response to these vile islamic stickers.
When did anyone actually contact EDL and ask them if they were involved in EEGP. Tommy Robinson got his first call about EEGP from the BBC this morning — after the event had been cancelled. He asked me if we had had any involvement in EEGP, and I could tell him truthfully that we hadn't.
The blame for this debacle lies with IMAAN.
The mere past affiliation of one (possibly more?) of the guys organising the event with the EDL was enough to start a chain reaction which resulted in the cancellation of the event. Unfortunately that is the price of being viewed as 'racist' by affiliation or by history, and its a price we can't afford to pay if we are going to get our message out.
One minute you are quoting PEter Tatchell, who has fought homophobia consistantly, the next minute you are the only organisation that defends us? What next? You are going to claim to be liberating Muslims from themselves?
Sven – We are not against muslims – we are against islamic extremism. There's one practising asian muslim who's been at EDL demos up and down the country for over a year. There are other ex-muslims in EDL who are living in fear of their lives because not only are they avowed atheists, but they are anti-islam. Why are we not protecting the human rights of such Pakistani apostates? Why should they live on the run? I can tell my christian parents I'm an atheist and they don't try to kill me. It is racist to leave ex-muslims like that to the predations of the fascists in their community (40% of whom say apostates should be executed).
Here's a report by shocked asian — antipathetic to EDL, he went to a demo, and was subjected to NO RACIST ABUSE. http://liberalconspiracy.org/2011/02/05/hanging-out-in-the-mid
Why are you ignoring that a police investigation concluded EDL are not far-right, and photographic proof that EDL is not racist?
I think it is appalling class prejudice…
Yes Sven, you can't fight homophobia by perpetuating other forms of hate. There is a long way to go in many sections of society, including but not limited to Muslims, in terms of eradicating homophobia.
I fear now even more people from the our community will be forced out of these areas in the same way I was. The homophobes have been given the green light to act how they like without protest.
Only if we give up. It was just one march; the danger is in staying quiet and allowing this to set a precedent.
Another group of residents needs to step up; one which could, by having a genuinely clean slate, withstand the scrutiny of those who will inevitably cry racism.
Another total capitulation to the Moslems. Disgusting.
Cancel it, ban it, tell people what to think, call them racist, facist whatever but the truth is the more the 'left' and their bunch of Islamofacists friends and apologists try to censure and avert any form of debate, criticism or action the more resentment it will fuel. And eventually it boil over, maybe when another gay person is brutally attacked or when someone is murdered, but boil over it will.
Why anyone (including OutEast, Rainbow Hamlets and Imaan) thinks you can negotiate (or get acceptance) with an ideology that hasn't changed or modernized its views since the 7th century is beyond me. Islam will not concede, modernise or evolve. It prides itself on the fact that every word is sacred. Thinking that you can get Islam to 'accept' gay people is like trying to tame a crocodile, it 'aint gonna happen.
Frankly those in OutEast and Rainbow Hamlets should be ashamed of themselves for their blatant appeasement and support of the Islamofacists agenda.
Indeed, those two groups speak for no-one but themselves.
Not to mention the censorship by the BBC which deliberately removed any mention of muslims from its news report about the march this morning. Sickening.
Cancellation of the pride march is being covered on bbc london news today. wonder if they will take the islamofacist side or maybe hopefully be impartial for a change.
The BBC already spoke to EDL leadership today, who told them "we had no involvement in EEGP". But of course that does not appear on the BBC story. And the BBC never covered the story of the "Homos Heraus" stickers that appeared in Derby in July 2010, or Aldgate in Oct. 2010, or even the last rash of them in Feb 2011. The first coverage by the BBC about these stickers was of "locals covering up hate with love".
No-one bothered to ask EDL leadership for any comment at any point in this combined communist/muslim destruction of EEGP.
As I mentioned above, in the report I saw above the BBC TOTALLY failed to mention the word muslim at all.
So they too have now joined the conspiracy of silence about muslim homophobia.
They have been in on the 'conspiracy' for a long time despite the number of gays that work in the BBC. Its not convenient to tell the rest of the nation that Islam is prejudiced and hateful otherwise it will divert attention from the so called hot topic of Islamophobia. Plus remember what we've been told for decades, only white, British people are inflected with any form of prejudice.
bbc should say something along those lines:
edl wanted to use this event to push futher their sickning agenda but gay people spotted this in time and rightly cannceled whole sharade, after that all those far right nuts poured on to the pink news forums to complain in dramatised manner worth at least an oscar ot two, but nobody really wanted to listen to that sh*t so that p*ssed them even more. the end
Far right nuts?? Don't think there are any Islamofacists on here mate – just their friend like you. THE END!
was just as i had expected from the lazy, homophobic journalism at the bbc and they actually expect naive peeps to pay to be misinformed.
Do you think the BBC will ever report anything in an impartial way? They are completely overrun by the hard left. They cannot bear to say anything about Muslims other than that they are being persecuted.
When do you ever see pictures of protests by Islamists mocking British military deaths, other than when there is a counter demonstration by EDL and the chance of some good old violence by whites?
Wasn't the whole thread of their report "Gay Pride march hijacked by EDL"?
Barking up the wrong tree there, mate!
How many gay organisations does it take to organise a march?
I see Rebecca Shaw is blaming the press esp pink news for been too right wing, and allowing supporters of the march to voice their opinon !!! I am sorry since when did Shaw, Gilbert or the other, have the right to tell me what I have to say.
the more that comes out about these people, the more I dislike them. They had a chace to mention about the march in september, why didnt they??? they had a chance to voice concerns over the stickers, they didnt – why not????
because they just want to sit around a table and talk, no action again for the local people !!! you guys are a joke
They are probably trying to block commentary next and censor the pink news, except their own biased views of course.
They have shown themselves up for the disgrace they are. They do not represent the LGBT community and Must now take full responsibilty for All violence and abuse these anti-gay groups will cause.
i actually take opposite view to yours, good job guys keep going
Good for you!!
So much hot air about fascism, and they turn around to deny freedom of speech. Just like when jewish and pakistani members of EDL went to the UAF conference to show them photos of black people at EDL demos — the fascist UAF attacked the jewish members and ripped up the photos of black people before they could be seen.
The whole fascist behaviour of the UAF was caught on video and is on youtube.
Blimey I bet you're gutted. Went to all the trouble of ironing your brown shirt and now the whole thing is off.
Actually i had a sexy burka and sexy suspenders .
well i hope it was at least ur choice to wear it, u know all other girls are not that lucky
ohhhh saucy!
And I got taken to task on a different comment thread by a couple of holier-than-thou political types for referring to them as the 'loony left'.
Well, it is loony to support Islam – even if you're not gay. Islam is not a religion; it's a prescription for a total way of life that dictates hatred for, and violence against, all those who do not believe in it.
This behaviour is mandated in the koran and the hadith and is supported as the correct way to behave by all four schools of Islamic jurisprudence and theology.
Anyone who kids themselves that that isn't the case plainly has not read widely enough nor looked at those countries in world where Islam dominates: do you think that Islam as practiced in all those countries is somehow aberrant or can you recognise it for what it is – an ideology of hate?
So the loony left and its conspiracy theories linked up with the lovers of Islam and hatred and got this demonstration cancelled.
Many of you seem to know a lot about muslim people. What would you suggest we do with the muslim people in UK and Europe?
Actually Pedro Muslims in Europe, like those in France and Germany for example tend to be much more open minded, not as oppressive.
But what gives you the right to tell someone else what to wear?
I am opposed to anyone telling people they have to wear something, but I am also opposed to the state telling people what they cant wear.
Burkas are oppressive. Here in the UK women died to stop that male dominated oppression so being that the majority of those women wear them because they are forced to I personally, would prefer them banned from public areas.
I just feel that kind of oppression goes against UK society.
The state has no right to tell people what to wear. Id rather people didnt wear them.
but it is wrong for the state to tell people what they can and cannot wear. This is the state gone to far, where do you stop, people must have freedom of expression.
Being forced to wear the Burka is not Freedom of expression. It is men oppressing 'their' women. That is not compatable with British culture.
Britain is about Freedom not oppression.
Surely the whole reason people come to this country from oppressive States is to escape oppression, not to allow these husbands to insist on it. Freedoms are not just for the men.
Jock S. Trap, you said it yourself: most women don't wear burkas through choice, which implies that some do. So why do you insist on telling them what they can't wear?
Women being forced to wear these things by their families is certainly horrific. It is a problem that needs to be dealt with. Just try not to crush everybody else's right to choose while you're at it.
The Taliban says women have to wear burqas, Belgium et al. tell women they're not allowed to wear burqas, nobody seems to want to let them choose.
Even if it is a self-esteem thing, you can't force self-esteem on people. Let's just police the things that are done against their wishes and then let them come to their own conclusions on how to live their lives.
Burkas are nothing more than over inflated male egos, pushing women into being passive second class human beings.
Here in the 21st Century and esp in this country there surely can be no place for this forced clothing. It's nothing more than a form of slavery and oppression.
I also think in this country there is a part of it that is a demostration against democracy, against Freedom, esp for women.
Like I said before, I find this to be an opinion of Many Muslim women that I know and thankfully have open minded families that believe the Burka has no place.
Actually I have to add there are plenty of more liberal Muslims in the UK who feel the Burka is nothing more than a symbol of oppression. Who think they are unnecessary.
Nice one:
Holy heck – look at this! Man is a march needed in some of these ghettos!
Needed by whom, Scott? The poor who live there?
needed by the homophobes inhabit that place
And a march would enlighten them and change their minds right? especially of children who have been fed fundamentalist rot? They will see pearly drag queens and kings march by and forget everything they have been brainwashed into believing? March as a show of strength and an act of courage works to change laws. Changing minds and attitudes, I am afraid is harder, grittier and more time consuming work. Why not organise an open free screening of this instead? http://www.channel4.com/programmes/a-jihad-for-love/4od#2928686
What would be wrong with marching for a show of strength?
@Scott. Nothing wrong in marching as a show of strength if that's what you want to do. As long as you say that's what you are doing- showing strength- flexing muscle, and that too protected and aided by the police. That is not fighting homophobia. Marching as a strategy has its uses, especially against the state (long live the drag queens of Poland: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4084324.stm) but do you honestly think that the march of the better educated/richer on the ghetto of those less informed/less educated/poorer and holder of homophobic views is a way forward towards changing attitudes???? cause as I said, that's what fighting homophobia is about- changing attitudes which can be achieved only through dialogue. Abusing 'homophobes' is just returning hatred with hatred. It achieves nothing in the long run!
To show strength in that we will not be bullied, we will not take being attacked lying down, and that this is a tolerant society guided by the rule of law.
I have no intention to abuse homophobes. Show strength in that we show we our proud, not that we hate someone else.
If you cannot tell the difference between showing pride and showing hate then it is you who has the problem/.
There is a systematic campaign on these pages to whip up resentment against Muslims amongst the LGBTQ community. EDL Supporter, Jock S. Trap and Adam are some of the regular posters whose basic message is that if you are not for the EEGP, then you are for homophobia. If you do not march on April 2, homophobia has won. As if before EEGP there were no initiatives to fight homophobia, as if before this bunch of friends got together, organisations had not put in years of work to combat homophobia in the East end. By posing as the only true fighters of homophobia, they are hell bent on abusing LGBTQ organisations who have fought for years. Their attitude is one of war, of showing strength. Surely, every LGBTQ who has had to deal with disappointed parents knows that this fight cannot be won by fighting against people. The fight is against attitudes. The way forward is dialogue. Uncompromising, untiring, but not hateful. The kind of work stonewall does. Hatred of homophobes is still hatred.
there is a difference between marching to show hate, and marching to show that gay people are not alone and will stand up for their rights.
I am not one who wishes to single out extremist islam. Right wing Islam is a much a threat to LGBT people as right wing christianity. I have campaigned against right wing christians, not by being hateful, but by marching and picketing events. Why should i not do this to right wing muslims? No one has answered this question yet?
You should do this to right wing Muslims. However, if you march shoulder to shoulder with people who advocate views such as these 'stop all Muslim immigration, prevent the building of new mosques, focus benefit fraud officers on Muslim areas, introduce mandatory DNA tests for all married couples and jail those who marry first cousins, install CCTV to all mosques' and refuse to say that such views are unacceptable in the march, then the whole action is compromised. It becomes a march of anti-Muslims(not anti-fundamentalists) upon Muslim areas along with gays. And that is insulting to the heritage of gay pride, for everything that pride has stood for. Or do you not care who marches with you as long as you get to march?
Just to clarify, when I say you in the above post, I use it in the general sense, and especially referring to the organisers of EEGP who banned political parties, took no stand against anti-Muslim propaganda (as opposed anti-fundamentalism) and refused to take a stand against fascism/racism despite inviting to their fb page and to the event large number of EDL supporters with possibly extreme right views. I do not mean you personally since yours is some of the most spirited posts against the fascist posts. I am just making the simple point that the march organisers did not do what you are doing in this comment thread: take a clear stand against fascism. And that IS a problem.
Why do you assume that just because people wanted this march Everyone must have been an EDL supporter. It's crap. It's insulting and it shows you up for being too immature to see Gay people too can make their own minds up about what they believe.
Point is Scott you should be able too. My protest was clear for all that this is about telling ALL homophobia is not welcome.
These people like ikkarus are hypocrites because one threads when it is about Christian homophobia they comment about Christian Homophobia. However when the story is about Muslim homophobia, The SAME as Christian homophobic, same sh!t, different religion, then and only then are we branded facist, racist….
They don't seen to grasp in their tiny little minds that Homophobia is Homophobia, weither it be Christian, Muslim, Whatever homophobia we ALL have the right to protest it.
I think too many just don't understand debate. Debate can sometime include opinions others don't like or agree with but nevertheless that is just what it is. Debate is healthy, Telling everyone they are facists when they clearly aren't because you don't want to hear it is just childish.
If you can't stand debate, don't do it.
A very misguided psot ikkarus. You have never lived through being being harrassed, beaten, abused just because of what people find when they break into your home and spend the next four years making your life hell that you have to move from the area you were born. So when you do move to somewhere that feel safer you then walk out your door around the corner to be confronted by a poster telling me where I live is a "Gay Free Zone".
Having escaped that amount of racism and homophobia and yes it was a Muslim community and No I wasn't the only one who went through this, I have no wish to go through it again.
It has nothing to do with hatred. I don't feel hatred, anymore, I used to to a degree but never showed it. It has everything to do with people like you who bang on about how we should respect a community that not only has absolutely none for us. Who are more than happy to make your life such hell, who tell you, you should be dead.
Being Gay may well be illegal in whatever country they wish to respect but in this country it is not. We and I have Every right to live without such hatred and prejudice of the like you feel we should tolerate. That is not what this country is about.
Maybe walk down Brick Lane with your boyfriend, hand in hand and see how your treated but remember now, no don't forget that when they're kicking the crap out of ya and tearing your face off that those who have lived through it are 'just whipping up resentment'. Also remember when your sitting next to your boyfriends bed hoping he'll not only come out of that coma but also that he isn't paraylised from the neck down from the beating that broke his spine, puncturing his lung and spleen. Then realising he's never coming out of that coma, just remember that it's your feelings that are at
fault, because you dared be yourself in a country where being yourself is not illegal.
Also please correct yourself, stop twisting what people say to suit your own arguement.
Your post was very upsetting jock. Im truly sorry if you or anyone you know has ever experienced this.
It shows the continued need for all of us to condemn all forms of homophobia, and challenge the different causes of homophobia. Be it Islam, Christianity, ignorance or hate.
I'm sorry I upset you Scott. I guess I do get resentful when some people go on about how we should or should be when it seems clear they know nothing about the problems that are face here.
I was actually gobsmacked yesterday when a woman had commented in the Evening Standard that said "Good, it is totally wrong that one group should be able to march through another group's area, especially that of the growing Muslim community."
It's only ignorance that thinks that areas cannot be a mix of people as most groups are. It is even more ignorant because in reality the Muslim community actually makes up only about 30 – 40% of Tower Hamlets yet you would think that the percentage was much higher.
It is dangerous to pretend that the problems in the area somehow become easier if we dilute them down. It is also Very dangerous when people with no wanted connection with groups like the EDL feel a protest against homophobia are made to feel they can't think for themselves.
This kind of protest is needed. It doesn't need to be about the EDL is about the LGBT community, their families and their friends telling the community in a caring, sharing way that homophobia, like racism should Never be tolerated. It doesn't make for a good community when people are on tenderhooks.
I will add that I truely resent people who jump on the slightest. For example when I've been asked, "Do you even know what it's like to feel like a foreigner in this country." and I can honest respond "well yes actually I do" and I, Me get blasted for being racist. How does that work because it's not fair.
Attitudes need to change. People need to stop trying to silence others because of their fears to hear it. Whether we like it or not these dabates need to happen. If they don't then that is when resentment will build. Trouble is then the resentment will be misplaced and focused on those groups that Should be seeing our point and helping us.
But since when has trying to pass a message that Homophobia cannot be acceptable in any society by whoever in society needed to be about hate?
Most intelliegent people know that hate on hate gets us no-where. The message isn't about hate, its about tolerance, it's about knowing that we all have to live together and that has to be about respecting one another. Like anything important in life we don't have to agree with it but we do need to respect it.
Hmmm- it seems I was the only one who saw the burkha clad women taking on the might of dictators in Egypt, in Bahrain, in Tunisia. Facing off tanks and guns, sprays and snipers and water cannons for freedom might be a greater sign of a persons beliefs than what they wear. Do you people not read the news? On one hand we have burkha clad revolutionaries on the other hand we have fashion conscious Muslim women, who reinterpret the Burkha creatively and wear it less out of blind obedience and more as a habit/personal statement of piety. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/muslin-women-beneath-the-veil-421736.html
Its just plain stupid to think that all women who wear the burkha are poor oppressed creatures/fundamentalists/those who are following the Koran blindly. As a feminist, I am opposed to any religion telling a woman what to wear. But as a feminist, I am also opposed to the state telling women what not to wear. How can you oppose one and not the other?
Excellent post, ikkarus. I remember thinking exactly the same thing about these women when I saw them on the news. I've been enjoying your posts on this thread. It's just a shame that anything which doesn't fit some of these people's narrow-minded world-views will just be mischaracterized and mangled until it does.
Either that or points will be ignored and goalpoasts moved – I see we're apparently talking about men *supposedly* abandoning their wives, or something about mullahs now? Not entirely sure what any of that has to do with your initial point – that women in burqas can still be as brave and gutsy as those without them – but, hey, that's ethnocentric fools for you.
It's called debate for a reason PumpkinPie.
There'd be no point if all shared the same point of view.
"local groups Rainbow Hamlets and Out East accused the march of being a front of the English Defence League (EDL) and claimed that it would cause tensions between gay people and Muslims in the area."
But the EDL hate extreme Islam. Saying it would cause tension with all Muslims equates all Muslims with extremists.
The EDL are clearly not racist or homophobic. Their stand is against Islamic extremism.
What's the problem with that?
and yet they attack and intimidate ordinary muslims in the course of their activism. I daresay many EDL supporters believe they are only against "extreme" islam but the EDL leadership (with years of experience in various far right vehicles) know precisely what they are doing by manipulating a 'crisis' that they can then pitch in as the solution and broaden the attack. You only have to look at the way Imaan, a very moderate gay support group that just happens to be muslim, has been filleted by EDL supporters above. The objective is clear: divide to conquer. And I for one do not wish to be manipuated for their neofascist ambitions.
Toddle off out ouf East London for good now you vile little fascists. Oh, and tell your EDL puppetmasters that it wasn't even a nice try..
oh, edl would never touch london, thats why they wanted to use this pride as a cover, any troubles and it would be gay people getting it, their classic response would be it had nothing to do with us, they think we are that stupid
Bullo*ks – I oppose the homophobia of everyone, anyone who truly is for gay rights does as well.
The point is to challenge homophobes be they christian or muslim.
– The christian b and b owners wanted us to return to a state of affairs where a shop can say "no irish, blacks or Jews".
– the foster carers wanted to poison a child with their homophobic views.
So dont pretend to be pro gay rights, you are not. This is the type of cheap campaigning Geert WIlders does, and I hope we as a nation are too smart to fall for it.
Both parties were funded by the christian institute. An organisation that receives its funding from numerous american televangelist sources.
This organisation is treated as the protectorate of morality in most the daily press.
Do not try and paint such homophobes as the Johns and the B and B owners as weak, they are far better funded, and have much better PR than any of the gay people they discriminated against.
I fully agree that the homophobia seen amongst many muslim youth needs to be challenged, and that certain left wing people have been reluctant to do this.
This does not let other homophobes off the hook.
The B and B owners broke the law. They are a rich white couple, hardly a downtrooden minority. They wish to revert to a system where a hotel can say ":no irish or jews" and I think that is despicable.
The Johns; bigots, you do not have a right to foster a child. also no decision had been given by the council on their case, so they were in no way targetted. They joined with the social services in seeking clarification from the court, which then rejected both the claims of the johns and the social services and then reasserted the law.
There is no oppression of christians in this country, its a made up lie spread by the far right..
As ive been called a fascist for supporting the march in the east end, and I am now being called a leftist because i oppose singling out only muslim homophobia im really confused as to what my political belief system really is.
@ Scott…Re Petterson above…This post in it's conciseness has proved everything i have posted over the last three days and got so much abuse from you and others for. I am no more islamofacist than you or any else on this thread but this is what i seen glaringly from the start. These people are racist and just as homophobic as the Muslims, Christians and all the other Abrahamic Weirdos who preach hatred toward us. A couple of years back the fact that you and I are Irish would have received the same vitriol from them.
Paddy despite you absolute ignorance regarding islamo-fascism and believing that at the EDL we racists we fight for you, for your right to exists in a society free from prejudice.
In a democracy we elect a government to look after our interests and entrust the security of that democracy with the powers to raise an Army and Police force. As far as i am aware tha government to date has been carrying out its duties adequately for the majority of the countrys citizens. Therefore we do not need the services of a self appointed bunch of illiterate swastika strewn facist,racist homophobic thugs to protect the country or it's interests. Indeed the Government if anything needs to rid the country of these same self appointed facist thugs and the sooner the better.
how would you ban this? And why has there not been a call to ban other kinds of fascist?
I would ask that of all religion Adam!
or "show them the door"?
Wow – ok lets break down fascism.
1) Ban the burka – Why do you have the right to tell someone else what they can wear? Do you not value freedom of expression?
2) Ending postal voting would disenfranchise the disabled and soldiers.
3) Legally punish people for being homophobic? I agree for those that incite violence, but beyond that and we get state sanctioned thought police.
4) I agree with the honour killings penalty.
5) Focus benefit fraud investigations on muslim areas? Jesus that sounds like something out of the third reich, the way civil servants were used to investigate the asocials.
6) benefits and nhs after 10 years of tax payment – what about the long term unemployed, do they desrve to die simply because they dont work?
7) Mandatory DNA tests for all married people, blooming heck alright there big brother.
8) cctv in mosques? Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? What ever happened to needing due cause before surveilling someone?
9) WHy only have a …
… on one holy book. In the Torah, new testament, koran you will find elements that go against british law, so why only investigate one?
10) why dont we close ALL faith schools, as they ALL promote sectarianism.
11) Why should anyone be forced to fly the flag? shoul we not value freedom of expression? Indeed I think you miss the point about the flag, people do not respect the flag as a piece of cloth, they respect it for what it represents, and what it represents is the freedom to not fly the flag (freedom of expression).
Your policy ideas are incompatible with ideas of liberty, freedom and justice. I do not see how you can claim to oppose fascism yet suggest fascist policies.
Most women wear Burkas not through choice. To be honest I find women covered head to toe the most offensive. It is a dictation yet again from over inflated male egos past and present.
Women in this country died to give women the same freedoms as men. (yes I know still not all) Burkas are unnecessary. I find in children even more offensive. Too demand religion like that from such an early age.
There are many within Islam who do agree that the Burka in wrong. It's nothing more than male dominating. For me the burka has no place in a modern society. I have several Muslim women who do agree with me in that.
We also have to take into account that part of British, indeed western culture is communication where facial expressions are most important.
I'm fine with headscarfs around the face, in fact many women it can be flattering but not total coverage. Such disregard for human life is degrading.
Having said that I find it less that sociable to have a conversation with someone wearing sunglasses esp when the sun isn't in their eyes. Like burkas it just plain rude.
'We are a tolerant democracy'
'We' might be Adam, but I'm fairly clear you aren't.
Any gay person that that would be prepared to march shoulder to shoulder with you through the East End, the West End or any other End, wants their head examining
Nope. I am a feminist who opposes anyone (state or religion) telling a woman what or what not to wear. Whether its right or wrong, its for women to decide. Its their debate, one in which I will and do participate. The state and the mullahs should back off. What's loony about that dude?
As for Egypt, fact is that they got rid of a dictator through massive non-violent protest and the fundamentalists are nowhere near forming a government. Its not my view, its what the experts and analysts say. Educate yourself please and stop displaying such ignorance publicly. Its embarassing.
Hold on, hold on: 'beating , rape, subjugation and honour killing of women in the UK' NONE of these are allowed in law, and no one is proposing that these should be allowed or tolerated. I certainly am not. You are now ranting, mate, and you are making no sense at all!
As for mad-mullahs in power in all Muslim countries which have been 'offered a vote', let us see, that would include Albania? No? Turkey then maybe? No? Bangladesh? What about Malaysia? Indonesia? Senegal? Morocco? Its been several decades of voting in all these countries and many many more. How long would you have me wait before I can start counting 'chickens' as you say? I am beginning to feel I should be paid for the general knowledge classes I am imparting!
"Hold on, hold on: 'beating , rape, subjugation and honour killing of women in the UK' NONE of these are allowed in law, and no one is proposing that these should be allowed or tolerated."
Yet we muctn't make a stand against homophobia.
Hypocrite much Ikkarus!
You talk about the women. So thinking about Libya. So when the masses were trying to flee, the hundreds of thousands trying to escape via the Tunsain border or Egyptian border…
Where were the women? Did you not notice that about 99% of those hundreds of thousand trying to flee the country were in fact men. Men that knew they were probably leaving there wifes and children behind in the grip of Civil war against one of the worst dictators in the Middle East.
You can also make your point about the Burkas but my opinion has been not only my own but strengthened BY Muslim women friends I have so don't preach the high moral ground through what you read and watch on TV. My opinion may have already been by the rest is from ACTUALLY talking to those very women who have been luckily enough to not Have to wear them.
any hard copy evidence to back up ur rethoric?
I think what really comes out of this whole sorry saga is how adept organisations like the EDL are at identifying a door into a situation or an area and manipulating the people involved.
Its also disappointing to see how stupid and naive some gay people can actually be.
are u saying 250 people marching is serious protest??? in eegp you would have a lot more
Not protesting here though sweetheart and I think that's what's important.
I sincerely hope that the local community shows your little foot soldiers who started this whole thing what they think of them
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