text:
Favorite Chicken Potpie Recipe
- 2 cups diced peeled potatoes
- 1-3/4 cups sliced carrots
- 1 cup butter, cubed
- 2/3 cup chopped onion
- 1 cup all-purpose flour
- 1-3/4 teaspoons salt
- 1 teaspoon dried thyme
- 3/4 teaspoon pepper
- 3 cups chicken broth
- 1-1/2 cups milk
- 4 cups cubed cooked chicken
- 1 cup frozen peas
- 1 cup frozen corn
- 2 packages (14.1 ounces each) refrigerated pie pastry
- 1. Preheat oven to 425°. Place potatoes and carrots in a large saucepan; add water to cover. Bring to a boil. Reduce heat; cook, covered, 8-10 minutes or until crisp-tender; drain.
- 2. In a large skillet, heat butter over medium-high heat. Add onion; cook and stir until tender. Stir in flour and seasonings until blended. Gradually stir in broth and milk. Bring to a boil, stirring constantly; cook and stir 2 minutes or until thickened. Stir in chicken, peas, corn and potato mixture; remove from heat.
- 3. Unroll a pastry sheet into each of two 9-in. pie plates; trim even with rims. Add chicken mixture. Unroll remaining pastry; place over filling. Trim, seal and flute edges. Cut slits in tops.
Bake 35-40 minutes or until crust is lightly browned. Let stand 15 minutes before cutting.
Freeze option: Cover and freeze unbaked pies. To use, remove from freezer 30 minutes before baking (do not thaw). Preheat oven to 425°. Place pies on baking sheets; cover edges loosely with foil. Bake 30 minutes. Reduce oven setting to 350°; bake 70-80 minutes longer or until crust is golden brown and a thermometer inserted in center reads 165°. Yield: 2 potpies (8 servings each).
Nutritional Facts
1 serving: 475 calories, 28g fat (14g saturated fat), 74mg cholesterol, 768mg sodium, 41g carbohydrate (5g sugars, 2g fiber), 15g protein.
Reviews for Favorite Chicken Potpie
"It was absolutely delicious! My family of 7 devoured this! I did make my own crust. My husband and son said if I was to change anything, the only thing they would want was more chicken. I followed the recipe perfectly and I thought the seasonings were perfect as well as the amount of flour. (and I am not a meat fan, so I thought the amount of chicken was perfect)"
"I made this recipe for the first time, it's by far the best pot pie recipe I've ever had/made. I ended up with enough filling for 3 pies based on the recipe, but I'm not complaining. It turned out perfect by following the recipe, not sure why other reviews indicate needing to use less flour or seasonings."
"I always use my own pastry but the filling was spot on. This was a typical roux so am uncertain why many thought it was too much flour? As with any roux you must cook long enough with liquid to make it a somewhat thick but creamy white sauce before adding the other ingredients so maybe that is the case. Will definitely keep this in the "wheelhouse" of recipes!!"
"This one is a KEEPER! I've tried a lot of different recipes (almost each time I try a new one) - I think this one is the best yet. I followed what others have said and added less salt/pepper/thyme. (But love the thyme in it!) I doubled this recipe (I had just pulled apart 2 rotisserie chickens and had a lot of meat) and I could have made 3 decent size deep dish pot pies from that amount had I enough pie crust. As it was I ended up with 2 deep dish (probably over filled) pies -- with one going to the freezer. And I still some filling left over that I can make probably 3 mini pies from once I make more pie crust."
"I loved this recipe ; however, cut the salt and pepper in half or at least I did; otherwise it would be too salty.Also, I have an electric oven and at 425 degrees, it only took 25 mins to bake. The amt of thyme was fine; my husband loved it and had two helpings. I didn't think it was too thick at all; it was perfect because you added a lot of liquid ingredients ( milk and chicken broth and butter)I didn't rate it a "5" only because the salt and pepper was way too much; definitely have to cut it in half. Otherwise it was excellent. Bon Appetit!!!!"
"Tasty, based on the other reviews used less flour and increased the spices a little."
"My family and I were not a fan of this recipe. It was so thick with all the flour and we couldn't taste anything but thyme. It was a bit salty as well. The seasonings were just overpowering. I think this would better suit my families tastes if the seasonings and flour were cut in half."
"This recipe is fantastic and simple. I cut it in half and only added some extra seasonings to the original recipe. It turned out wonderful. My husband had his plate clean before I was halfway through. It's a keeper!"
"Love this recipe. I have made it three times and my family have commented how good it tastes. It is nice to use whatever you have on hand. One family member can't have corn so I just added mushrooms and celery. Love you can freeze one for later. It is in my recipe box as a keeper."
"Yum! Great chicken pot pie recipe. Made my own homemade crust - recipe on Allrecipes (http://allrecipes.com/recipe/12492/pie-crust-iv/). Great consistency. Would add a little more spices."
"Hands down THE best chicken Pot Pie recipe out there!!!"
"Very good pie plus it makes two of them"
"This was awesome!! And, to have one for the freezer too is such a bonus. The thyme is the key ingredient that makes it unique & yummy."
"Absolutely love this"
"Love the previous reviewers idea of using the frozen pie crusts on the bottom and one package of the refrigerated crusts for the top. You are freeing up your pie plates from being in the freezer and if you take one to someone else, they don't have to return the plate! So good!"
"Absolutely FANTASTIC! This is the best recipe for chicken Potpie and much rather use the amount of butter in this recipe than canned cream soups, which most potpie recipes use. I halved the recipe & followed the recipe exactly. However, right before putting it in the oven I brushed the top crust with egg wash. Karen, THANK YOU so much for sharing your recipe with us all."
"I've made this recipe numerous times and it always comes out great! I cut the recipe in half and use half of the required flour amount because we like our gravy thinner. I add two tablespoons of white wine to the broth/milk mixture. I also only use one crust on top (no crust on the bottom). This recipe is a keeper!"
"This recipe is great. I made one pie then froze the rest to use in a new pie crust later."
"Absolutely delicious and easy to make. Hearty meal that sticks to your ribs!"
"I always make these ahead and freeze them when I'm using up leftover chicken or turkey.I have one little trick I use, I buy two pre-made pie crusts and only one package of therefrigerated rolled out pie crust. I can freeze the pies, ready-to-bake without having to do so in my pie plates.I fill the ready made crusts with the filling, then brush the edges with egg wash, top with pie crust sheets and press firmly with fork to adhere together.This makes the perfect, 'no clean up' dinner for busy days, especially during the holidays."
"I've been making this chicken Potpie for a few years now and can't believe I've never reviewed it. I only make half because there's just the two of us, but this is the only pot pie I ever make because it's easy, doesn't use canned soup, and taste excellent! If you don't have exactly what's in the recipe, you can substitute anything your heart desires and it's always good. Thanks, Karen Johnson, for making me look like a great cook!"
"Cut the recipe in half as only two of us. Excellent as is. I only added a bit of fresh ground nutmeg to the roux, just because I always add nutmeg to a roux. Not sure with the thyme I really needed it in this one. Also, needed bit more broth than stated or sauce gets to dry. Great dish! Update: On the warm up with leftovers did get very dry, if left overs next time will add a can of cream chicken soup, or make more roux. Still delicious even dry!"
"I made this pot pie for dinner, very good. I cut the recipe I half. Came out great. The next time I make it I'll make a looser gravy since we like lots of gravy in ours."
"This is a very good chicken potpie but be aware that it makes alot !- I was unable to fit it into 2 9 inch pie pans and used two larger deep dish rectangular dishes. I really like the flavor of the filling and the fact that nothing canned was used- all vegetables either fresh or frozen."
"This is a GREAT recipe- the first chicken pot pie that my family really likes and requests. I have made it three times and it turns out perfect every time and warms up nicely the next day."
"Very yummy! I halved and made one pie with home made crust and vegetarian chicken."
"I am not normally a huge fan of chicken pot pie; however I had lots of Thanksgiving leftovers to use, so I thought I would try one. Well, boy and I glad I did! I am now a believer! This is the BEST chicken (or turkey!) pot pie I have ever eaten! Even my husband raved! I did leave out the corn, and probably lowered the amount of thyme (my shaker bottle wouldn't let me take the lid off, so I just poured a couple of shakes worth in the sauce). This recipe halves well, as I wasn't about to make 2 pot pies (see first comment about not liking pot pie). I will definitely make the full recipe next time and freeze one! Thanks for the amazing recipe!!"
"OMG it was fabulous - I used sweet potatoes instead-just great"
"This recipe is very easy and forgiving, and lends itself well to substitutions . I find the amount of filling is more than you need, so I make little puff pastry pockets whith what is left over and it is a big hit. I agree with other reviewers about the thyme and the butter, I use about half as much of both with a good result. I am no fan of store bought pastry, so I used the Betty Crocker two crust pie recipe which is deliciously flaky if somewhat tricky to roll, but if you put the dough between two pieces of parchment paper is comes out perfect."
"Very good. I mixed in a little cheese as well and next time I'll add chopped cooked bacon. Keeper recipe for sure!"
"I've made this pie on a couple of times and every time it gets rave reviews, even from the kids. I also like that I can freeze one or give it away. Great recipe and delicious!"
"Jeanettenfrench i substitute beef and beef broth all the time i use broth instead of milk also.i love this recipe have used it for a long time now."
"This is the best, like others I use my own pastry recipe. I have made it like stated which is great but I like it the best made with left over gravy and 1/4 to 1/2 cup of cream and less salt. My family love it. I make two, cook them both, eat one freeze one or give it away to friends or family. Thxs Karen Johnson"
"I made this tonight, it tastes great! The consistency is perfect. I used almond coconut milk instead of regular milk and 3/4 cup butter instead of the full cup. I would agree with the other reviews to use less thyme as I did not, it is just a tad bit much if you use the whole teaspoon! I plan on freezing the other half of the filling to use at a later date with biscuits :-) Good luck!!"
"We liked this very much. I made this recipe as stated. I followed the directions after freezing a pie and it took longer to bake then stated in recipe. Just be prepared for a longer bake time!!!"
"I made this for dinner tonight and everyone enjoyed it. The sauce was so good; what I liked most is that it didn't required canned soup. I used my own chicken broth and next time I will make my own crust. I prefer to cook from scratch and not used processed food. So good and perfect for a chilly night."
"Would like to make for concession stand food. Can I use biscuits instead?"
"This was wonderful. Prepared as written, except I used homemade pie crust instead of store bought. It received rave reviews! Thank you for sharing!"
"This recipe is delicious! A keeper for sure. I used a rotissiserie chicken..and pilsbury pie crust..makes it fast and easy. The only thing i changed was i used Italian seasoning instead of thyme."
"have not made this pie yet, but wanted to ask if anyone has made this with a top crust only. Thanks, Sukie"
"Yummy I use asparagus and use large cupcake pans for mini pies"
"I have made this chicken pot pie recipe several times, and it is a HUGE hit in my household! Thick, creamy sauce and the thyme gives it just the perfect taste! On occasion, I have used Bisquick to make the crust, giving it more of a doughboy type of topping. Whether you choose to make the filling and doughboys for a chicken stew, or follow the crust directions for a pot pie, both are absolutely delicious!"
"This is a Five Star recipe! It is Super! Everyone ate this down and then ate seconds! I've made this often since it is now requested all the time. I make both pies with my own pie pastry recipe with great results. Even served this to my guests who all were very impressed : )"
"This. Is. Amazing. I make my own crusts and throw in whatever I have for ingredients and seasoning. But I love the white sauce combo of butter, flour, milk and broth. This recipe is so versitle! I've made it 4 times so far and never used the same veggies/meat/spices. And it always turns out great! Makes one to eat and one to freeze. Ps. My 2 year old loves this! This last time I used: salt, pepper, garlic powder, and Mrs dash garlic for seasonings (about a tsp each), chicken for meat, carrots, sweet potatoes, and a bag of frozen mushroms, broccoli and beans."
"Nice recipe with lots of flavor. The filling is thick enough that it does not run out in the pan when you cut it. Definitely a keeper!"
"Great recipe and so easy!! The first time I made it I cut the recipe in half and made one pie. The second time I made it I cut the recipe in half and made three small 51/2 inch individual pies. The next time I will make the full recipe and make individual pies and freeze some. I followed the recipe exactly except I added a little extra broth to make it more creamy. I absolutely love this recipe! This is my go-to chicken Pot Pie Recipe!! Thank you for sharing!"
"Very yummy! My SIL wanted chicken pot pie and this was a complete hit!"
"Question: How does the baking instructions change after you freeze the pie?"
"Very easy to follow and truly fantastic. Go easy on the thyme, maybe just bake the chicken with rosemary and thyme and not stick it directly into the roux. and don't dice the potatoes too small or they kind of turn into a mash when baked."
"This is a five star pie."
"This is a family favorite! It is versatile and is a good basic recipe which allows for changing up the vegetables or even meats used. The sauce/gravy is delicious and not too heavy - easy to prepare so no need to use canned soups. It is true comfort food and we enjoy it year around! I would like to say that the second pie makes it to the freezer, but it often doesn't!"
"Excellent recipe and easy to make. I cut the recipe in half and make one pot pie."
"Excellent! Thank you so much for this yummy recipe! Changes I made: I only used 1/2 cup of butter. I added fresh asparagus I large diced and roasted the asparagus and the carrots together. Also added celery and saut?ed that with the onion. One can of corn instead of frozen. Used 4 cups of broth instead of 3. I used half & Half instead of milk. Also used Whole Wheat flour as I was out of white flour. Very pleased we could not taste the difference in the flour and will use it again when making this.My husband said Marie Callender's (a chain famous for their pies and pot pies) should use this recipe! Thanks again!"
"Great recipe. I agree with the comments that a homemade crust would be even better. I used Pilsbury refrigerator pastry crust and it turned out pretty good. Very easy to pull together and the best part, knowing there is another pie in the freezer!"
"This pie had rave reviews from my family--everyone loved it! My only change was that the sauce got a little too thick so I added more chicken stock. Came out perfect!"
"OMG. What. A. Recipe. To-die-for delicious! I want to add a photo of my pie, but there appears to be no manner in which to do so."
"This recipe was absolutely wonderful. I rolled my own crust so it took me a little longer. My whole family loved it. Even my very picky soon-to-be-10yr old liked it and asked for more."
"This recipe was fantastic! It took me one hour including the pastry dough( I used chef Ramsey quick puff pastry recipe) . My adjustments were ...I used baby potatoes with skin ,1 can of corn, 1 cup of peas, and 1 cup of vanilla almond milk. I used an extra 1/2 cup of chicken broth to compensate for the thickness of the almond milk.I did not use thyme or carrots because they are flavors my family does not enjoy!Bon Appetite!"
"Tasty Comfort Food . Substantial meal for a cold day. My husband loved it. The prep time is not accurate if you peal and cut your own potatoes, onions and carrots, count on prep time of at least 1 1/2 hours. If you buy a rotisserie chicken from Costco or another store , you need to buy two chickens for this recipe. This recipe makes 2 LARGE pies. It's enough, supposedly, to feed 16 people, but realistically 2 pies will feed about 8-10 adults because you will eat more than an eighth of a pie! We are average adults and the two of us ate a half of a pie... it's so heavy that you will not need anything else other than the pie for dinner. The diced potatoes get "lost" in the pie- maybe I should cut them in larger pieces next time. This would be a great hit for a pot luck."
"Wow this was phenomenal! I actually ran out of all-purpose flour for the first time in my life! I had to work with whole wheat flour. I made my own crust-highly recommend- and the filling was just perfect. My husband said this was Amazing! My go-to recipe was the All-American Turkey Pot pie on TOH, but this one wins! However, I will continue to make the crust from the turkey recipe-its to die for!"
"A win with my family.... my husband was tasting before it went in the oven and said it can be eaten just like that....thanks for sharing this recipe."
"Made this last night. Everybody loved it! I added another 1 tsp of salt because what was called for in the recipe just wasn't enough ( this took the flavor from just ok to yummy), and I was out of peas so I used cut green beans. Prep time took me a little longer than I expected but was worth it in the end because I get two pies out of the deal. I also ran short on crust (I had already used one crust for a pumpkin pie, so I only had 3 and needed 4), so instead of fully covering both pies, I just used cookie cutters on the 3rd crust and covered most of the surface of both pies with snowmen and gingerbread men shapes; kids loved it. Filling comes out firm so it doesn't spill all over. Also, even though boxed crust says to cook at 450, I did what the recipe said and did 425 for 35 mins (in gas oven) and it was perfect. This will be my go- to chicken pot pie recipe!"
"Tasted okay. My family liked but next time, no thyme."
"Sounds so good but I am going to try boiling the vegs in some of the chicken broth, using the broth as directed after Draining . It should give it a better flavor"
"I made this last night and my family absolutely loved it it was the first time my kids ever had chicken pot pie I used mix vegetables instead of the carrots and peas separate and added celery salt I made 2 pies and it was all gone in 35 min great recipe after that my wife wants me to cook every night"
"This is a fantastic recipe. It is one of my go-to recipes when making a meal for a friend.. I can make one and have an extra to take to someone or leave in the freezer for a busy night."
"This is great! I made my own crust and it was much better. I also used our leftover turkey from Thanksgiving, which is now becoming a tradition that the whole family loves. Much better than turkey sandwiches every day for a week.I cut back on the butter (by half) and used sour cream in lieu of milk as we never seem to have milk in our house. It turned out great! It's hard to find a recipe that produces a thicker pie (versus a thin one). I will always use this recipe from now on!"
"This was a super recipe. Very tasty. Even my picky 5 yr old wanted more.I just have to work on perfecting my pie crust!"
"This recipe is fantastic! I made this as written, but for one pie. I used the breast meat from a Costco chicken and a bag of mixed vegetables to make it easier. I am going to make the filling again tomorrow and will toss it into the freezer for busy days."
"I loved this recipe! Only made one chicken potpie and saved the rest to serve over mashed potatoes. Very tasty!"
"I made this last night and my family was wowed! It is hearty and tasty and for my large family we are always having to double recipes. This one made plenty for dinner and for lunch leftovers. It totally hits the spot when you are looking for a fall comfort food recipe.."
"Delicious A fair amount of prep work, but the results are worth it. Thick, creamy, flavorful"
"This is a really good recipe. My husband absolutely loved it and so did my boys. You have got to try it."
"flavor was perfection ."
"Really good! Def. the best pot pie I have ever had. I am a vegetarian so I swapped out the chicken for mushrooms and the chicken broth for vegetable broth. Amazing! Thank you. Great end of work week/Friday night comfort food meal."
"This is the best chicken potpie, my kids would never eat potpie , now they ask for it."
"This was great! Actually made it twice in one week. First time I only made 1/2 the recipe because it is only me and my younger son. It was gone by the next morning. Today I made the full recipe, I am working all weekend and wanted something here for him easy to heat up. The ONLY variations I made were using 1 tsp of pepper instead of 3/4 and fresh thyme instead of dried. Try it!"
"I absolutely loved this! i made it for my family and although it took a while, it was worth it! I used a rotisserie chicken from Albertsons and just used the chicken breasts. Instead of canned or fresh chicken stock i used chicken Bouillon. I also used a bottom and top biscuit crust . (Biscuit Crust Recipe: http://www.food.com/recipe/chicken-pot-pie-with-biscuit-crust-26846) To keep the crust from getting soggy i baked the bottom crust for about 15 minutes before adding the filling. It only needed to bake for 30-35 minutes."
"My boys loved this. I omitted the milk in the filling because there seemed to be plenty of liquid already."
"Every one enjoyed. Found recipe very easy. Also liked they told you wine to serve."
"Good chicken pie!! I wasn't sure I had frozen peas and didn't want to dig through the deep freeze to see if I could find any, so I substituted frozen chopped broccoli so there would be some green in it. I was going to make my own pie crust, but decided not to bother because I had some biscuit mix, so I mixed some up and dropped biscuits over the top of the casserole. I cut down on the thyme, added maybe an eight of a teaspoon since I don't like things too heavily seasoned. Also, I halved everything as I just wanted one pie. Delish!! Will make again, and next time will probably make a pie crust from scratch when I'm not as rushed for time. Another thing....I don't think it needs a bottom crust, just one over the top."
"You will never make another chicken pot pie after making this one! It is well worth the effort! If using frozen pie shells (like the tenderflake), I find I can get three pies out of this recipe! I also add chopped parsnips with the carrots and then cut down on the frozen veggies. The richness of the sauce is just incredible! Even my one year old eats an entire piece!!"
"This was wonderful...perfect combination of ingredients and very flavorful. It does take a while to put together, but a lot can be done ahead, e.g. cook and freeze individual bags of chicken to have on hand. To save time, I just bought packaged veggies (2) and added the chicken and potato. My husband loved it!"
"I know this may seem crazy to ask, but when it says poor the potatoe mixture in, is it talking about the water you cook the potatoes in??"
"This was delicious, and I turned it vegan. Substituted soy milk and soy butter, faux chicken strips, but essentially the same. I did put a little more pepper and salt in to counteract the sweetness of the soy milk. In any case, it was a huge hit b"
"Fantastic! My whole family loved the flavor. Definitely a keeper."
"This recipe was perfection! My husband could not say enough good things about it! He said "Now this is what a chicken pot pie should taste like!" I followed the recipe exactly. I did use Yukon Gold potatoes instead of a regular baking potato. At first, I thought I would cut the recipe in half as I didn't think I needed two pies worth, but I am so glad I went ahead and made both. The chopping is a bit time consuming, so I am glad that now I will get two meals out of this one night of work. I put the other pie in the freezer for the future and cannot wait to have it for a simple meal a few weeks from now. Loved this!"
"My husband told me this recipe was a keeper and i can't take the leftovers to work. I am really glad I picked this recipe to try. We loved it!!!"
"Really filling. I added some dill and parsley flakes for some more flavor. And I added some poultry seasoning to the broth for a little chicken flavor boost. Baked pie came out wonderful. Second pie into the freezer. Hope to enjoy that next month!"
"This was delicious and satisfying! I used my own crust recipie so I could make one large pie instead of two. Total hit and my family loved it! Great comfort food!"
"fantastic! So good, don't get to freeze the second pie."
"Made it for dinner tonight, delicious! My family loved."
"This was super good and easy - this was the first recipe I've used to make a chicken pot pie and it's a keeper. However, the second time I made this, I used only one crust and made more of the broth/gravy mixture - I froze this one to cook later. I followed the how to cook the frozen pie instructions but my pie was still cold after it should've been ready - it took an additional 45 minutes and I increased the oven temperature. It was still tasty - just disappointed it took a long time too cook through."
"This was pretty good! My 1st attempt at making a chicken pot pie and it turned out. It was very easy to make too, so that was nice. I will make a few changes next time and see how it goes. I'll probably do less Thyme and will try homemade crust but all in all...very good recipe. Will be making again!"
"This is the pot pie recipe I always use because it is so rich and satisfying. I use half the butter and flour, and add a few more herbs and some white pepper. I love that the recipe makes two pies! I make one for us, and one to bless another family."
"I've made this three times now and my family still raves about how much they love it!! Full of flavor, drives me crazy waiting for it bake! I highly recommend this recipe! The leftovers reheat just as tasty!!! Wonderful cold weather comfort food!"
"This was delicious! Everyone had seconds. The only downside was my largest frying pan, which is quite large, was not big enough. I would suggest using a Dutch oven instead."
"This was a great dish! I didn't have any milk so I used cream of chicken instead. It made the filling very think but it tasted fantastic."
"Love this recipe. Get so many compliments when i make it."
"This was so good! I wasn't sure how the leftovers would be, but they were just as good as the first day it was cooked."
"This was a huge hit with my family (even my husband who has never been a fan of chicken potpie)! It took some time to prep, but it was well worth the effort. I love freezer cooking so having a pie for the freezer was a definite plus! I used deep dish pie crusts and this made 2 very full pies. Delicious!"
"This was a huge hit with my family (even my husband who has never been a fan of chicken potpie)! It took some time to prep, but it was well worth the effort. I love freezer cooking so having a pie for the freezer was a definite plus! I used deep dish pie crusts and this made 2 very full pies. Delicious!"
"This was so good & easy to make! I only used 1 pie crust per pie & left out the thyme. It's nice to know I have one pie in my freezer for a busy night."
"My family did not care for it the first time I made it because of the thyme, one whole pie went to waste Made it again without the thyme, loved it, no leftovers this time. Loved the ease of the refrigerated pie crust."
"Very tasty and filling. Great way to use up leftover chicken. I used evaporated skim milk for the milk which gave it an extra creamy taste without adding any more fat and I used fresh thyme and a heavy sprinkle of poultry seasoning. I made four deep dish individual pies and I could only eat half of one."
"Excellent flavor, the gravy would be good on other dishes as well. I only used a top crust."
"I followed the amounts given and could have made 3 pies! Next time, I will not add the potatoes - just a personal flavor choice. And I suggest allowing the filling to cool before adding the top crust. Looking forward to trying this with other poultry and veggie combos."
"We had this for dinner tonight. We loved it. I added fresh garlic with the onion. Next time, I plan on adding chopped celery. Delicious."
"Great recipe but for our family I will omit the thyme next time. I did increase the broth by 1 cup to make it creamier."
"This recipe is delicious!!!! My husband LOVES it and so do I! I like that it makes 2 potpies. I usually make one and freeze the other for another night!"
"This is a delicious pot pie recipe, my husband absolutely adored it. I frequently halve the recipe to feed just my family but when there is a new mom or a friend under the weather this is the perfect meal to take to them and still have dinner for your family as well. You can never go wrong with classic comfort food."
"I apologize, but the amount of thyme you called for was ridiculous. It drowned out every other flavor including the whole chicken we smoked the day before. The idea of the roux-based `gravy` was well constructed, but I used less flour than what the recipe called for, and I found the consistency a bit much. I love the idea of adding potatoes though. The lesson this girl learned today? Stay away from actual written recipes, use your gut instinct, and remember kids, your fingers do the best measuring when cheffing it up :) ONELOVE"
"Super easy and made it Sunday for the week. Added a bit of garlic power to the mix and baled the chicken in packets with olive oil, salt and pepper along with a bit of chopped garlic...yum! Loving it now!"
"This recipe is AMAZING. My family can't eat any other pie after making this. I can typically get three pies out of this recipe, but only because we like a little less filling. This is by far my most requested recipe!!"
"This was so yummy!! I actually made it in to mini pot pies using a muffin tin. They were perfect size for my kids, who really liked it. I just halved the recipe and used a 4 inch round cutter for the bottom and a 3 inch round for the top and cut it out of the store-bought pie crust. I also brushed the tops with an egg wash."
"Awesome recipe! We just modified it to make a turkey pot pie and it was by far the best pot pie I have ever had in my life. We will definitely be making this again!"
"Awesome recipe! We just modified it to make a turkey pot pie and it was by far the best pot pie I have ever had in my life. We will definitely be making this again!"
"Phenomenal! Halved the ingredients to make one deep pie as well. I didn't use as much flour either because I noticed the filling to be too thick so I used extra broth to compensate. This was delicious:)"
"This was great! The first pie was wonderful, and we had the other one last night.... cooked that one for an hour at 425 with no temp change and it came out fine!"
"Best chicken Pot Pie!! Very creamy and hearty. Recipe was easy to follow. Freezes very well!! Have made with chicken and also with leftover turkey from Thanksgiving. Will make this again and again!!"
"Also, I added a bit extra pepper and salt while mixing before putting everything in the pies. It was to dull down the overpowering thyme, which did help prior to baking. It was strong after, obviously."
"This was great, except I felt it called for a bit too much thyme so I will make it with less next time. But otherwise it was delicious."
"I have been making this recipe for years. Definitely one of my favorites. Love having one in the freezer for later."
"This was my first time making a homemade pot pie. It turned out great! I halved the recipe and made one deep dish pie and had no leftover filling. The only change I will make is to use a little bit more chicken broth for the gravy, mine ended up just a little too thick (even before the boiling/thickening stage)."
"First time I ever made a chicken Potpie. It was excellent. My husband and kids enjoyed it and want me to make it all the time. Thank you for sharing."
"I made this on 1-3-13 and it was delicious. I cut the recipe in half and only made one pie, as I was unsure if it would turn out & it tasted great!"
"This turned out so good! I did a few things different though...I used 3/4 cup flour, and I bought a premade rotisserie chicken from the store and used that. Also, instead of using a crust, I baked it for 45 minutes then top it with unrolled cresent rolls and baked until the cresent rolls were golden. Mmmm so good! Will def make again"
"We also had enough filling for a third pie. We found that the crust browned before the bottom crust was done cooking, but we rather enjoyed the creaminess it added. If we make it again we would likely cut the thyme in half and add a second seasoning. It was just a lot of the same flavor."
"This was so good. I can't wait to make the second one thats in the freezer. I would put less thyme in it, if any. But I will be making this again."
"This was one of the best chicken pot pie recipes I've ever used! My daughter loves pot pies, and this one had a real chicken broth gravy and was seasoned just right and really brought the flavors out of the chicken and the vegetables. I will definitely make this again. Plus, it was nice to have an extra to freeze for a future dinner!"
"I cut up the chicken in cubes and sauteed it in some olive oil and sprinkled a little Adobo on it. Once I added the broth to the recipe I also added about a teaspoon full of chicken base to the sauce (Better Than Bouillon). Also I did have to add a little bit extra broth to help thin the filling out a little bit. My family and friends loved this!!!"
"This was crazy easy to make!! I found though that it filled THREE regular pie shells. Probably two deep dish ones. Reheats beautifully and the seasoning is perfect!!"
"Really, really good. Used 1/2 cup ea of butter & flour as recommended. Did not have frozen corn so substituted sauted mushrooms & celery and did not use a bottom crust. Poured a portion of it (kept remainder for another day) into an 8-1/2 x 9 dish, covered w/ one rolled out sheet of puff pastry, sprinkled w/ minced fresh parsley & paprika, baked @ 375 for 70 min. 6 servings - our guests went back for seconds! Great w/ double cheese bread & spinach salad. A keeper!"
"Absolutely the best chicken pot pie ever. I make this often and use whatever veggies I have on hand and it always turns out great. I use store bought crusts to speed the process and usually only make one pie and use the extra filling as either gravy on top of the pie or on biscuits or toast later. Excellent recipe!"
"MMMM.. best chicken potpie! Gravy is delicious. Great for company!!"
"This has been a family favorite since I first made it when I received this issue of Quick Cooking. We have 6 children, so both pies would go in a single meal when all the kids were home! Now I can usually freeze one for later--unless some of my sons find out I'm making this & decide to come home for supper that night! I substitute 2 cups of frozen corn for the peas as my husband hates most vegetables. I've also made it with only the potatoes & onions. And, I use 1 tsp. of poultry seasoning instead of thyme because I don't like the flavor of thyme. My youngest daughter made it on her own for her 13th birthday because I only had the use of one arm at that time--I talked her through it & she was very proud of the compliments she received!"
"Seriously, only use half the butter it calls for (1/2 cup instead of 1 cup) it is still plenty rich and creamy. It was great."
"Very tasty! My friends loved it!"
"This is the BEST! I did cut back the butter by 1/2 a stick. I usually double this and make two 9 x 13 pans using homemade pie crust. I also just use frozen carrots and skip the potatoes due to a family allergy, but it does speed the process up a little bit :)"
"This recipe should have WAY more ratings! A little time consuming to make but SO worth it! The frozen pie turns out great as well!"
"The Best chicken Potpie Ever!! The first time we prepared this it was great. The second time and after we knew what we were doing...it was the best!! Thank you so much for sharing this recipe!!"
"A real crowd pleaser. This is the best chicken pot pie recipe. I add extra peas because the everyone likes them."
"It was great! Turned out to be a little more work than I thought, but was well worth it!"
"My husband and I made this receipt this past weekend. chicken Potpie is one of my favorite comfort foods and this recipe is the best I've ever had. Will definitely be adding it to my recipe box. Thanks for sharing this recipe!!"
"This is really yummy comfort food. I've made it twice now & my 4 kids love it. I usually make my own pie crust but I used the store bought to save time and couldn't believe how good this was (and easy)."
"I have done it and I am not so happy, it has called a lot of butter and flour so it has strong flour taste and very rich."
"I made this for the first time at the weekend, and It really exceeded my expectations. I was amazed at how easy and ridiculously tasty this was. I made my own pastry from scratch and can't wait to make this again!!! Thanks for sharing!"
"This is the best pot pie. Ever. I plan on using leftover turkey in it after Thanksgiving."
"So delicious! My family loves this and it's so easy to make."
"Very easy to make and it is super delicious! My whole family enjoys it and I enjoy them eating vegetables without arguing."
"I poached the chicken in broth & water with lots of poultry seasoning. I also added 1 tsp. of thyme, poultry seasoning & salt to the mix. It was absolutely fabulous!"
"a very yummy comfort food"
"I made this pie for my family and they loved it. I froze the other half and then made it for a work potluck and everyone wanted the recipe. I did change it a bit, instead of peas I put in frozen broccolli and made it with a homemade crust instead of store bought. Absoultely a keeper recipe."
"This is very good. I plan to make it again for our Church potluck. Thank you Karen Johnson."
"I make this potpie all of the time. It is our favorite meal. It is DELICIOUS! I make it for people who are ill or have had a baby and it's perfect because there is one for them and one for my family. Every single time I make it I get a request for the recipe. I saute the chicken in good spices and chop for the best flavor."
"This potpie would have been delicious but I thought it had way too much thyme. I will try again with only a smidgeon of thyme."
"My family loved this recipe. I think my 17 yr old had 4 helpings, and my husband, who usually doesn't like this, had 2 helpings. I will definitely make it again."
"I needed to add more broth and I made my own crust and the chicken pot pie was a big hit with my husband. We both loved it!"
"Great tasting and easy to make. I only wanted to make 1 pie, so I halfed the recipe and it worked out great."
"I tested several pot pie recipes before settling on "the best" for my recipe box --- and here it is! It's my go-to recipe for taking to new moms or shut-ins, because the double recipe allows me to make dinner for my family and theirs."
"This is the best potpie recipe. I share this one alot."
"When I want to make chicken Pot Pie, this is the recipe I turn to. I have thought about reducing the butter a touch to cut down on the fat-that's why I gave it 4 stars instead of 5-it seems like a bit too much butter in the filling."
"Doubled the recipe and got 5 pies out of it!! Cooking for a very large harvest crew and it was a hit! They all loved it. To save time I used canned chicken. Great recipe! Love that it makes lots. I will use this recipe long after harvest. Its great to have extra in the freezer for those days when you dont feel like cooking!!"
"I'm rating this as a 5 even though I haven't tasted it yet. Right before summer I made one of these..put in all in a very deep dish pie shell, but it got hot and my husband didn't want me to heat up the house, so I gave it to my son and dtr in law and told them to bake it. They told me it was the best pot pie they had ever had and it was gone within 24 hrs. It's just the two of them!!! Gonna make one for me and hubby this week and freeze the other one as recommended."
"Made this last night. My family told me this one is a keeper. I bought 2 9 inch deep dish pie crust and I had enough filling to make 3 pot pies and gave one to my neighbor. I will definitely make this one again!"
"I tested other potpie recipes, trying to find the perfect one.... this is by far the best, and the one that made it's way into my permanent recipe collection. This is one of my favorite dishes to take to new moms or shut-ins, because it's a double recipe -- one for my family, and one for theirs. It's delicious!"
"Forgot to add that I used only 1/2 cup of butter (by accident) and it turned out just as good."
"I absolutely love this recipe and so does my husband. I double the amount of Thyme and black pepper. If I'm short on time I will use 2 15 oz cans of mixed veggies in place of the potatoes, carrots, corn and peas. I also like to use fat free half-and-half if I have it on hand."
"My husband and son both loved it! I used a Pillsbury crust and a left-over store bought BBQ chicken. My husband grew up on homemade potpies and his Mom is the best pastry maker I know, so I was ready for an "It's okay" but got a "Wow, this is really good. One of the best I've ever had". He even went as far to say that he was a little hesitant when I said that I was making a chicken potpie (don't know where that came from as I'm a good cook!) Another plus is that it made two good sized pies."
"I adapted the recipe and skipped the potatoes and carrots. I in turn used 4 cups of frozen mixed vegetables to make this truly a quick fix. My family loves it so much, that the 2nd pie doesn't make it to the freezer any more!!"
"This is a wonderful pot pie. My husband and son loved it; there was none left from the one pie."
"by far the best homemade potpie I have ever made. We really, really loved it!"
"I love this recipe and use it frequently!"
"This is the best recipe! My freezer cooking group uses this every time we get together. We have also adapted it to using beef stew meat. To make things really easy we buy deep dish pie crusts and top with Pillsbury refrigerated rolled pie crusts. Packed into a 1 gallon freezer bag and labeled with instructions, they are so nice for giving to families in need as well as my own home!"
"This turned out GREAT! I used less expensive ground beef instead of the more expensive chicken. I also made my own pie crust with my favorite recipe. The frozen pie tasted like it had never been frozen. I don't need to look for another pot pie recipe! THIS IS IT!"
"This is my favorite potpie recipe. It's great to make when I need some homemade comfort food."
Wine Pairings
Full-Bodied White Wine
Enjoy this recipe with a full-bodied white wine such as Chardonnay or Viognier.


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Dear members,
Thank you, NarutoBase Staff
I don't believe it until i see it. I'm doubting it
Last edited by score38; 08-28-2012 at 11:32 PM.
Hahahahaha, this is most likely fake, in fact I hope it is, cause knowing Kishi well enough, he is a troll, if he did indeed give these ppl an interview, he most likely trolled them (his nature), which would mean it wont be Izuna
This has been posted here like 4 or 5 other times, this interview is fake.
oh wow
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text:
Are DC schools good enough?This is the first on a series of posts about education issues in DC.
Many younger residents moved to the District in the last 10-plus years, thanks to a resurgent demand for urban living and policies that encouraged residential growth. For many at or nearing the age of having children, one question above all determines whether they will remain in DC or decamp to suburbs: are the schools good enough for my child?
I have heard from many people who very much want to remain in DC, even in the more walkable and urban neighborhoods, but won't do so if that means sacrificing their children's future. Private schools are becoming more and more expensive relative to most people's incomes and inflation.
Still, few good parents who have a choice in the matter will keep a child in school if the educational outcome is actually bad. Is it?
The answer is very different depending on where you live
The District essentially has 2 educational challenges. Just as transit thinks about choice riders (people who could drive but might choose to take transit if they perceive it's better) and non-choice riders (people dependent on the train or bus, like the poor, elderly and disabled), so are there 2 types of families in DC: those who could move to Maryland or Virginia counties with high-quality schools or send their kids to private school, and those who can't or won't.
The non-choice residents comprise the kids who are really being left behind by poor education. Some can get into charter schools, but there aren't enough highly-performing charter schools to serve everyone. There is no question that we need to provide a better education to break the cycles of poverty and crime and help kids go on to college, a prerequisite for most well-paying jobs in today's society.
Meanwhile, DC wants to create a school system good enough to keep the many residents who might otherwise leave the District entirely. This builds the tax base to pay for the services that help the non-choice residents, builds support for public education, and improves neighborhoods by keeping them multi-generational.
If you live in certain DC neighborhoods, the answer to "are the schools good enough?" is generally, yes. At least, many people think so. This year's out-of-boundary lottery, which fills spots in schools not already full of kids living nearby, had almost no spots in elementary schools in Upper Northwest like Murch and Janney, Oyster-Adams in Woodley Park and Adams Morgan, Ross in Dupont Circle, Watkins on Capitol Hill, and numerous others.
For a time, many parents felt that elementary schools might be "good enough" but were more concerned about junior high (which is a tough time for almost any kid, regardless of school quality), and many DC-area private schools have far larger classes from middle school up. In Ward 3, at least, Deal Middle School and Wilson High School are now pretty much full, and incoming classes of younger kids are filling up with in-boundary kids, leaving no room for others from elsewhere in the city.
In less fancy neighborhoods, it's a different story. Many schools, especially in poorer neighborhoods, are simply not giving kids the skills they need. DC's current practice is to close these schools and perhaps replace them with a charter school.
Some charter schools have worked wonders for some struggling kids; other charters don't really turn out to add much value. Charters play a valuable role, especially to test out innovations like a longer school day, which DCPS can later incorporate into its own schools as appropriate. We'll discuss this in a future part.
Meanwhile, do you think a DCPS school might be good enough for your current or future child?
It's time we started considering the welfare of students, not teachers, and closed DCPS. We could take the $27,000 in funds DC gets for each student and give it directly to the kids. That would allow them to attend some of the best private schools in the district.
The terrible, non-educational environment poor kids have to suffer through is inexcusable.
by Michael Hamilton on Jul 17, 2012 12:08 pm • link • report
@Michael Hamilton, at which private schools would all of these kids w/27k go? There's also this assumption that any DC kid can attend any private school as long as they can afford it. Not true. I know parents of kids looking to enroll them in private schools who can't get in..and they can afford it. How do you make it so that any child can get into any private school? Is that even a realistic goal?
+1 to Gray
It is time to cut the school budget until we see the results the bloated bureaucracy is supposed to deliver to our kids.
DCPS can't stand up to its competition, when it comes to middle class families' alternatives.
There are 168 hours in a week. Given the kind of circumstances and environments that large numbers of underprivileged kids marinate in outside of school hours, 40 hours per week in school is not enough time to ameliorate that. At the same time, the sort of model that might be able to meet those needs would likely not be appealing to those coming from different circumstances.
There is no one-size-fits-all model to education. How to create and balance multiple effective models without descending into a system of de facto segregation (which to a great extent we already have as it is in DC) is perhaps the greatest challenge in urban America.
No, actually DCPS ranks dead LAST in the nation...not among the lowest, it is the lowest.
There are 3 public highschools in the District and maybe 3 middle schools in the District that I would be ok with sending my kid to, and as along as you live within the boundaries of Cleveland Park, or Georgetown where they are, then fine.
However, like most non-trust funders who also doesn't make the requisite many 6 figures a year, throwing down a million plus on a tiny fixer upper in one of these places isn't in the cards.
The twins are 1 now, and the wife and I have already have the conversation multiple times as to where we are going to move in VA or MD because Columbia Heights "ain't gonna cut it", and we certainly can't afford 60K a year in private school tutition.
I'm still a few years away from thinking about kids (though both me and my fiancee are 30, so no doubt she'll start pointing at her watch in a year or two), but as things currently stand I'd have a hard time justifying raising our kids in DC given the school options we'd have in MoCo or Virginia.
Until you have kids, you really have no idea what you'll look for in a school. The near suburb schools have issues of their own. Some are severly overcrowded despite their higher test scores, and those higher test scores often result from teaching to the test (in addition to kids with more resources to help them succeed).
There are good DCPS and charter options, but you need to do your homework and be prepared to get involved (pretty much a given for suburban public schools too). Middle school is the most persistent concern for DC parents with the means to move or opt into private school, but for parents without kids or with kids yet to even reach early childhood education (let alone actually have kids in elementary), that's an awful long horizon and things do change. The charter landscape is also rapidly evolving, and some of them are very good.
Obviously if there's some sort of sea change in the interim between now and when I have middle-school aged children, I'd change my mind. There's no evidence that such a sea change is in the offing, though.
That is a valid concern that I share. I see two obstacles to private schools meeting demand:
1. Zoning. It's difficult to open a school in a place like DC where every NIMBY has control over how others use their property. This would need to be explicitly addressed for a successful expansion of private education.
2. A market for public schooling limited by regulation will undersupply. Those that are available under this market will tend to skew towards the high-end, with high admissions standards. You see a similar effect in the DC condo market.
3. Standards imposed by the people who made DCPS an unsafe, useless, and expensive jobs program. They have nothing to contribute to the business of running a school, and could only make things worse.
So, I see a few steps that could get us a long way:
1. Easier zoning rules, as I noted above.
2. Little to no regulation from the DC government. Any impediment from regulation will primarily hurt the poor, and there's little reason to think that the DC government could do anything to make a school perform better.
3. Auction off the DCPS assets. Those buildings could be turned into schools that do things DCPS is incapable of, like teach children how to read.
I will say that moving to Maryland or Virginia is not the silver bullet it used to be. Among my friends the parents who are least satisfied with their kid's school live in Montgomery County. Their daughter functions several grade levels ahead of her class (partly because she is smart, but partly because the class is behind) and the school has no idea what to do with her. She pretty much teaches herself.
Now to be fair, my friends had to work hard at getting good DC options for their kids. They got in all the lotteries for the desirable DCPS schools and then applied to a bunch of charter schools. I think this was more effort than I expended on picking a college.
And when that day comes, we'll just have to decide what's best and do what we need to accomplish that.
On some level I feel like a lot of the anxiety over schools (particularly among those with a choice) is driven not because the parents are unsure of their decision, but because they're worried about what others think if that decision. When you have people say that not in a million years they'd see their kid to DCPS, that sort of fosters that anxiety. Best advice is to just ignore what others say, because they're only justifying their own choices. Obviously you can't completely ignore other opinions, but if you try to live up to them, you end up believing that your child's only hope is to go to Saint Alban's. Children of parents like that usually have lots of issues...
The charter landscape is also rapidly evolving, and some of them are very good.
This is true, but wasn't all that reassuring to my girlfriend and me when we were looking for a home. The chance of getting a slot in a great charter, while fantastic for someone whose other option would be a regular DC public school, is not so great when you could just move across the DC line and know what you're going to get.
As others have mentioned above, this is one of the really weird things about the DC area: you don't have to leave behind all urban, metro-accessible areas to get to better school systems.
I strongly believe that DC will change drastically in the next two decades as we embrace smart growth and transit oriented communities. This will be directly correlated to an increase in education and an increase income (therefore an increase in the tax base). This will lead to families who have vested interest in their childs success regardless of where they get their education. While DCPS has significant administrative problems, the other side of the coin is the current lack of significant family involvement (whether it is due to lack of time, lack of education, or both).
If DC doesnt sit in the top 10% of public schools systems nationwide and charters have not drastically improved, then to private school they will go. I am currently preparing for that reality.
What young DC citizens need to know is what they can do right now to lead DCPS in the right direction. An educated city is a strong, prosperous city.
I get uneasy with wording like "there aren't enough highly-performing charter schools to serve everyone." This is true, in a sense, but it comes very close to making the assumption that school quality is somehow independent of student demographics. High-performing schools perform highly precisely because they have a low fraction of at-risk students.
Has there actually been an example of a school composed predominantly of at-risk students that performs highly? Is the method of such success generalizable and sustainable? (Tricks like transferring out the low-performing students don't count. And there are lots of programs that are successful in their first year, owing to the enthusiasm and extra energy that a new idea brings, but which can't keep up with the success, as the willingness of everyone to put in effort above and beyond can't last forever: this is known as the Hawthorne Effect.)
Fortunately, there are charter schools (I send my older son to one, and will send the younger when he's old enough.) And even though the best ones--meaning, those that draw lots of middle-class students--are oversubscribed, new ones keep getting formed, often spurred on by middle-class parents in search of a good school. I believe this is how Two Rivers was founded.
The ideal school would have predominantly middle-class students with a smaller fraction of at-risk students. This arrangement is generally agreed to be the best for the at-risk students. (The opposite, a small fraction of middle-class students in a predominantly at-risk school, not to much.) DC at present doesn't have nearly enough middle-class students to make this arrangement work for everybody. It might if someday there are more middle-class families in DC, and if the population of at-risk students is divided more equally amongst the surrounding jurisdictions.
The charters are vitally important in a transition to this model, as they facilitate the accumulation of middle-class families and the general recognition of a neighborhood as middle-class acceptable. At some point, there will be a critical mass of middle-class students such that the local DCPS schools, should they all attend, will be considered good as well.
@Fitz -- I raise charters only because there are new ones constantly coming on line, and the charter landscape is more agile than DCPS. In some cases charters are actively looking to fill gaps where DCPS has failed to be proactive in meeting the demands of DC residents and their kids (for example language immersion programs, math/science oriented curriculum and International Baccalaureate programs). Whatever charter options currently exist, there will be different options 5 years from now, 10 years, etc.
You could have the best school in the world, but if it takes you 2 hours to get there, it is not available. OTOH, moving to the suburbs will add 1-2 hours per day travel time to get to work, sacrificing the precious time a parent may spend with children. The time/school tradeoff is what drives up the cost of real estate with nearby good schools, making them "good" neighborhoods. Thus, the quality of nearby schools is by far the most important factor in the residential real estate market.
(BTW, all parents and realtors know this.)
by monkeyrotica on Jul 17, 2012 2:13 pm • link • report
As a parent with kids in Deal and Lafayette I don't think our kids would be getting better educations across the border in Bethesda.
Deal in particular has been fantastic. I can't say enough good things about the school and its hard working teachers.
You could move to dowtown silver spring and enjoy a very reasonable commute, reasonable housing prices and a high school (Blair) with a 8 out 10 GreatSchools rating.
Now Rick does have a point about parental involvement. But if you segregate your child in a way which removes them from the rest of the world they are destined to live in, it'll likely create more problems down the world w/them adapting to a world you refused to expose them to. In a perfect world, every child in every school would be surrounded by peers whose parents instill the value of an education. That "perfect" world is often seen in the form of private schools.
According to everything I had read, more parents were willing to enroll their child in DCPS under Michelle Rhee because of what they "hoped" would be the future of DCPS. What I'm interested in finding out is how many of these same people are now looking to move away from DC and why.
Also, we often cite the success found in other cities as a reason for why we might do things here. W/that in mind, are there good examples of cities where public schools are doing well that we can follow?
Unfortunately for D.C., there are options. I looked in D.C. and over the border in dense areas of Silver Spring. Similar houses were actually a bit cheaper in Silver Spring and I get much better schools & better county services. The decision was clear.
I will be honest: I saw the firing of Rhee as confirmation that the dominant institutional prerogative of DCPS and the city government was to maintain the institution of schools as job programs. I am sympathetic to that prerogative, but my child is going to get a good education and they are going to go to a school where that - not the maintenance of jobs - is priority #1.
If that changes in the next ~20 years? Great. If not? You can find me in Arlington (or at Sidwell, in case I win the lottery or something).
Michele Rhee, for all her faults, really showed how much DCPS had been run like a patronage system, not an education provider.
This is similar to suggestions that MD take back DC--why on earth would MD and VA want the headache?
It's not all about the schools -- a lot of it has to do with the kids and their parents/caregivers. Even the best school won't reach achievement benchmarks if saddled with troubled kids with excess baggage, or kids who don't get the kind of necessary educational reinforcement at home. The schools are not the primary determinant of success -- it's the parents/caregivers.
It's not all about poverty either (but it doesn't help) because plenty of poor kids succeed if provided with the necessary support system. It doesn't take a genius to see the demographic disparities, and the success of some of the west of Potomac schools reflects their greater affluence and homogenaity than inherently supperior schools -- the parents invest time and effort (oh, and money) to help the schools succeed. Space is allocated almost exclusively to in bound families. It may work for Janney or Murch, but many other neighborhood schools won't be able to replicate this model, no matter how "good" the school or its teachers and staff.
A thousand times yes. I'm kidless and a ways off from changing that status, but the shifts that would have to happen in the next 12-15 years would have to be pretty major to keep me from looking outside for schools. The metro accessible TOD neighborhoods outside of DC are probably the greatest strength of the region.
If the answer to fixing DCPS was easy & obvious - "starve the beast," scrap the whole system, or whatever commenters propose - it would get done. The problems are not all due to the unions, or the type of students, etc. - stop fooling yourself. It's far more complicated. I don't know what the solution is, but I'm not sticking around to use my kid as a guinea pig.
I don't mean this as snark. But if you're "really" interested in finding out the best option for your child, can you name a few things that Kaya (Rhee's former deputy) has done to stymie the reforms Rhee put in place..the sort of reforms that made you consider placing your child in DCPS?
The reason I ask is because I think there were a lot of people who based their child's education on a "person" and not a "system." From a practical matter, you have to be able to identify what "taking us back to the old days" means today under Gray/Henderson. Anything outside of that is just noise. That is, "well now that Rhee's gone, I know something is getting ready to happen. I might not be able to identify what. There might not be any evidence to confirm my fears. But, I'll be fearful anyway."
DCPS deserves to be confronted the way Rhee confronted them. It was the unconciliatory attitude I found most comforting about her, not her policies per se (I disagree with her that "bad teachers" are the main problem with DCPS, for instance). Kaya Henderson by all indications has done a good job on the policy and political level, but if I'm going to take a massive gamble with my child's future by putting them in a DC public school, I at least want a chancellor that isn't conciliatory towards the elements of that system that make it so bad.
To amplify this point: there is a wide range of performance is DC schools, and it is pointless to classify them all as "failed" when that is clearly not true. You have to go and look -- actually visit a prospective school and talk to its principal and teachers. Then you really find out how well a school is doing. Problem with test scores is that they reflect several years of teaching, and improvements do not appear there until after the kindergardeners matriculate to 4th grade. Point here is that the nuts and bolts of how good a school is is several steps removed from the superintendent -- good schools have blossomed despite bad DCPS management, and vice versa.
Do you guys really not see what a huge burden and giant gamble this is for parents? Not to mention, as established upthread, the decent schools are likely to be clustered in very expensive areas of the city and - even if they are decent - are likely to be of lower quality than comparable suburban schools.
Basically, parents have the choice between a labor-intensive, risky search for a "decent" DC school, when they could simply move five miles away and have a guaranteed excellent school. It's really a simple calculation, unfortunately.
California schools have their own problems, but even CA's continually deteriorating public school system looks good compared to DC.
And wait til you reach college, where the state system is increasingly inaccessible and underserving to Cal residents. At least DC residents enjoy DC TAG - a federal grant providing discounted tuition at all national public universtities and many regional private universities and colleges http://osse.dc.gov/service/dctag-get-funding-college
The trick is what happens now and what will happen in the next few years. There's just a silly number of excellent kids below the age of 8 within a block or two of our house in Brookland (15? 20?) -- and not one of them attends a local DCPS school. Most, and it's a diverse bunch, attend charters and a few attend private. And charters seem to be popping up or expanding to meet this demand. But can, will or should such a practice continue apace? I have no idea, but being a parent in the mix, change does seem to be happening fast. See examples such as Mundo Verde, Yu Ying, LAMBs expansion last year, Inspired Teaching, etc. I think blanket conclusions either way ("we are certainly leaving" vs. "it's changing and we'll definitely stay") are premature. So bottom line - this is the big deal for growing a sustainable city and I hope to see the series continue.
I'm not sure if that was sarcasm or not, but if it wasn't, Obama's kids go to Sidwell.
I personally visited 10 different schools this past year, taking the time off of work to take the tour. I also spent hours online comparing test scored and demographics, as well as going to other school functions. I would have liked to have done more. Yes I am well aware of how much time this takes.
Parenting is not for the lazy. Part of the challenge for the schools is to get the parents in shape -- apparently, you are just beginning to understand that. The advantage the charters have provided is that they completely changed the game. Schools in DC now compete for students, whereas before I agree that it partly (but not entirely!) a patronage system. Rhee understood that, as the proportion of students enrolled in DCPS consistently slipped. DCPS has had to compete or close shop. The disadvantage is that all this choice puts a burden on parents to figure out the best place to send their kids. Those parents that are most prepared for this challenge will get a good education in DC.
I think the last thing parents want is for their children to be "adapted" to a world in which lots of parents don't care about or value education. Quite frankly, childhood and adolescence are difficult enough as it is, and I fail to see how it's useful to also dump the obligation to learn to deal with people who don't care at all about school while they are in school.
Although I don't agree with this, you are the parent. So it's up to you. But digging just a bit deeper into my previous question, can you name an instance or two where Kaya (more importantly the mayor) has been conciliatory towards elements of a system that make it so bad.
I'm stressing this because I think if we really claim to be concerned about DCPS, then we have to armed with information separating fact from fiction. I do not believe we should make decisions about our child's future based on fiction. We can feel however we want about DCPS, but it does the city a disservice is we are spreading misinformation about our schools. *not suggesting you are*
If all that work guaranteed that my child would get a good education, I'd do it in a heartbeat. The problem is that it doesn't guarantee any such thing.
Suburban schools aren't guaranteed to give anyone a good education either, but hopefully we can agree there's a lot better chance a kid will get one there than in DC. That's the simple truth.
Your experience is why I think parents and children are likely to stay in the district, rather than fleeing to the suburbs the way they used to. As several people above mentioned, schools are secondary to socioeconomic conditions and home life in terms of academic success. As the neighborhoods fill up with college-educated two-parent households, the schools are going to get better. And even if the schools keep a large number of at-risk kids, the kids within the schools will self-segregate into cliques that exclude people not in their socioeconomic class. Pushing DCPS to move back to track systems would be helpful though.
Schools are a trailing indicator. They improve after the neighborhood, but they do improve.
This is the giant elephant in the room that no one really wants to talk about, but I agree. The problem is that it's a collective action problem - a bunch of people have to be willing to make a choice that is individually less-than-optimal in order for it to happen.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a bump in test scores/educational attainment as a result of demographic change, but for some reason I doubt the demographic shift will be of a sufficient magnitude to make the schools anything more than decent. We'll see.
I realize that many parents may be just as selective about pre-school, but it seems that the bar might be low enough, along with the "free" part - hey you can start that savings account for private school - to entice middle class parents to give it a try. To the extent that a widely available universal pre-K helps to "organize" middle class parents to throw in with each other and with lower income parents and the principal and teachers at neighborhood elementary school, that might effectively change the demographics INSIDE the public school in a very short time and give you the kind of results that @20002 experienced. DC is one of very few urban public school systems that is giving this a try and I think it has the potential to be transformative.
A few friends of mine who are teachers have noticed the quality of students decline. In some instances, teachers are frustrated by a system that expects them to bring a new student, who may be several years behind, immediately up to grade level to meet exam requirements. The good thing for suburban school districts in this area is that they are almost singularly focused on education and have quality people and systems in place to better deal with the new reality their facing, but they are feeling the shift.
No, really. I did go to school. :-)
Deal seems to be the best school in the District, of any level of middle or highschool. People rave about it and it is a decent school, but it is evenly matched with just about any random highschool in Arlington, Montgomery County and Fairfax. The point is...even DC's best is just "eh" everywhere else.
Sure, if you search hard enough, spend yoour entire years allotment of vacation visiting charters, wishing every year for a good school lotto pick then you can get your kid an "ok" education, but are you as parents really fine with an "ok" education.
Undergrad degrees are worth about as much now as a highschool diploma was back in the 80's. In another 15 years, having one won't mean squat, everyone will need a masters. Do you really want to roll the dice with your kids future which is already going to be far more competitive than ours by keeping your "fingers crossed".
As someone above said, DCPS ranks dead last in the US in every possible metric. Sending your kid there is the last thing you should be aspiring to do.
You could move to dowtown silver spring and enjoy a very reasonable commute, reasonable housing prices and a high school (Blair) with a 8 out 10 GreatSchools rating.
This is exactly what my girlfriend and I are doing. We would have loved to stay in DC, and looked quite a bit in NoMa, Brookland, Petworth, and Takoma. But in the end, going right over the line to DTSS was too appealing. We'll be able to walk to the metro as well as lots of restaurants, grocery stores, bars, etc., and we won't have to worry about the schools.
FWIW, we're in the district for an elementary school that actually has a pretty poor, mostly non-white student body. But because it's MoCo, they throw tons of resources at that school and the kids do pretty well. And that's the kind of public schools I always went to, so I'm very happy with that. Though of course the schools could change significantly by the time we're actually using them...
Thank you, @Corey, for pointing out that all of the work that @goldfish did *happened* to work out for his/her kids. But there is no guarantee. I could have visited 15 schools and taken off twice as much time as goldfish (I'm lucky that I have such flexibility, many parents don't) and it's entirely possible that my kid wouldn't get into *any* of the schools on our "acceptable" list.
Although it may not be a priority for everyone, I'm not interested in hauling my kid halfway across DC for school, I'd like her to attend the neighborhood school. I prefer her to live in the same vicinity as her classmates.
@goldfish - Calling out parents as "lazy" for not wanting or having the time/ability to do the same research as you did is a cheap shot. Most of the parents who care enough to engage in this conversation do A LOT for their kids. But I, for one, have chosen to draw the line somewhere - especially since all of that work could be for naught.
Also, I'd like to say that I'm happy to see this conversation has not devolved into something nasty as I so often see. Thanks for an interesting discussion!
"I seriously think DC should approach the districts in MD and VA about sending its kids to their schools"This is similar to suggestions that MD take back DC--why on earth would MD and VA want the headache?
Given the massive shift in DC demographics over the last two decades, and the corresponding decline in some suburban schools, I think one could make the argument that this is already happening...
DCPS will improve to the extent that there is a shift in the proportion of extremely poor kids to middle-class kids enrolled. If that happens, things will improve. If not, not.
As far as HogWash's assertion that there's no difference between Rhee and Henderson, that very similarity is one of the biggest points of grievance to a lot of erstwhile Gray supporters. Read the comments section of the WaPo education blogs--the idea that the anti-Rhee reactionaries are somehow just fine with Kaya is pure fantasy. They hate her, and see Gray's support as a betrayal.
While I totally understand this sentiment, I think that it is more useful to focus on the tangible outcomes rather than whether the chancellor is confrontational enough for you. If Henderson is able to accomplish the same things as Rhee but is allowed to stay on longer, then she does more good than Rhee does, who basically lost her job because people hated her.
I liked Rhee's style, myself, but it looks like Henderson's strategy is to give DCPS a "dignified out", whereas Rhee forced many of the interest groups within DCPS into a corner, and their only option was to fight their way out of the situation.
I'm curious what the poverty rate is in neighboring counties. Poverty is expensive, and corrosive to achievement. And not something that a small local government can "fix".
On another note, I don't think it's fair to compare Deal or Wilson to a "mediocre suburban school." Both schools have tremendous diversity, racially and socio-economically, which are difficult-to-measure benefits that many suburban schools can't deliver.
The second thing that makes me realize DCPS and charters are just doomed ultimately for failure, (and the one that is unique to DC) is the constant churning in enrollment and school population that this choice/consumerist system encourages. Every year, it's a constant stream of kids who switch schools from DCPS to charter and back again. Every year there's a new "hot" charter where all the supposed child-geniuses are encouraged to go, so they all leave, but then when the grass isn't greener, they're all talking about moving around again. Or the kids who can't cut it at the charter are encouraged to find another school, so they flood the DCPS lottery or head to their neighborhood school, which has to take them. I know many kids who have been to 5,6 different schools before they get to high school. How can any school get better when you don't know who's coming and going and you have to start over with a whole new set of kids? There's this decreased sense of community and school spirit and loyalty that I think a school needs in order to inspire kids and parents and teachers into making it great.
It's sad and depressing and it literally breaks my heart, but I don't see it getting better any time soon. In fact, I think ultimately we'll have a DCPS which consists mainly of the high-performing schools in Ward 3, and the rest of the system will be turned over to mediocre charters or school management companies, but then at least it won't be any politicians problem, just parents.
by Been there done that on Jul 17, 2012 4:51 pm • link • report
I can tell you that if the school is safe, clean and relatively well run, it will probably last you through second grade. By third grade the relentless focus on standardized testing and a lack of differentiation for high achievers starts to wear you and more importantly your child down.
As a previous poster said, DCPS and DC Public Charter schools have some ok offerings, but they are still weak compared to Montgomery or Fairfax County.
We've worked very hard to get our children a quality education and we managed to last in public through 5th grade. Of course West of the Park you might make it longer.
My oldest is doing brilliantly at a top notch private (which we really can't afford) and they all love living in the city. I think they are nicer more interesting people for having attending at Title I elementary school with kids that were very, very different than them.
That said, if you haven't sunk into real estate in the District, save yourself the headache and do a close in suburb. The hassle and drama of public school isn't worth it.
Finally, since her name has come up here, I can tell you that Rhee did nothing to make our school better. She created a lot of drama and strife but ultimately she made things worse for the children we know.
DCPS struggles because of poverty. My kids did just fine in Title I classrooms. The teachers were top notch. If anyone needed to be fired, it was some of the parents...Oh, and the rock stars downtown. They needed to go too.
What Rhee did that was good was to convince parents in wealthy neighborhoods to send their kids to their local DCPS schools. The effectiveness of her other reforms was irrelevant; breaking the chicken-and-egg cycle that keeps neighborhoods with lots of middle (and up) class families from creating a critical mass of students at a school is what counts.
My wife and I had a son four weeks ago, and over the last ten months, we've had a lot of conversations about schools, real estate, and the like. We've spent the last 6 years renting an apartment in Georgetown, with dreams and plans of purchasing a house sometime soon in a much more affordable neighborhood, but once our family situation switched to "parents", the calculus changed.
At the moment, it makes much more financial and family sense for us to sacrifice on square-footage (and property ownership) for location, in boundary for a top ES, decent middle school (Hardy) and Wilson. If we have a second child, the space constraint may force a different decision, but for now, we have a path to a very solid DCPS education, without breaking the bank.
I think this also follows some of the discussions that come up on GGW fairly frequently, about how many people and families will make different choices about living style, and possibly even ease out of the SFH dominant lifestyle if they see options of walkable neighborhoods with resources (schools, libraries, parks, playgrounds) in reach.
I agree with those who have talked about the "collective action" problem in neighborhoods like Brookland which currently have many middle-class families with children not heading to DCPS elementary schools, and no parent wants their children to be a social experiment. That said, as DC demographics change, I think there is going to be a fairly dramatic increase in test scores (not evenly across schools, but on a jagged, school-specific basis), sparked by changes like those in Capitol Hill.
I didn't read it that way at all. What might distinguish goldfish from many of those "seeking" to move out of DC is that he/she was invested in living IN DC and wanted his/her child to go to school IN DC. When you've committed to living in an urban environment like DC, you make sacrifices. For Gold, the "sacrifice" was going to as many schools as possible to ensure that the child matriculated in a DCPS. Not everyone has the time to do the same...but a lot of them surely do. No, parenting is not for the lazy.
@Oboe, that very similarity is one of the biggest points of grievance to a lot of erstwhile Gray supporters. Read the comments section of the WaPo education blogs--the idea that the anti-Rhee reactionaries are somehow just fine with Kaya is pure fantasy
So are you really relying on blog posts as your gauge for how Gray supporters view current reform efforts? IMO, a better gauge is to look at what Nathan Saunders says..since he represents the group most disaffected with Rhee. Rhee's problem was that she and her boss cared little about the PR nightmares they created. Kaya is much more attuned to the politics and the policy and any successful leader is able to effectively straddle the two. Crash and burn does not work.
BTW, if we had to gauge "opinion" on blog posts like the Wpost or WCP, we'd be angry about everthing...everyday. Show me something from people who don't hide beyond a computer screen and scream bloody hell.
@JustMeIf Henderson is able to accomplish the same things as Rhee but is allowed to stay on longer, then she does more good than Rhee does, who basically lost her job because people hated her And unfortunately, her boss left her to the elements. That's horrible management 101.
but it looks like Henderson's strategy is to give DCPS a "dignified out", whereas Rhee forced many of the interest groups within DCPS into a corner, and their only option was to fight their way out of the situation.
Consider this, Rhee was the bain of many people's existence, touring the country, having magazine profiles of her sweeping the dirt from DCPS, and having every one of her decisions either praised or lampooned by the media/blog, mtopic of every negative. Instead of reform being the issue, SHE became the issue herself. OTOH, Kaya has navigated the PR water swimmingly. You didn't read horror stories when she fired teachers and principles. You don't hear about her antagonistic relationship w/teachers nor the union.
Education reform is not "in the news" as it was during her reign. But the reform continues. Now, what's in the news is how much people hate VGray. So hatred of Rhee/Fenty has been replaced by hatred of Gray. fortunately, DC gov't trains haven't stopped running.
DC ranked dead last in 8th grade NAEP comparisons.
There is a known phenomenon in DC where even compared to students with similar household incomes, DC students perform worse than similarly poor students in other states, but I can't find that statistic right now.
While DC's schools are indeed deplorable, this is not an apples-to-apples comparison.
Which (if it only includes DCPS, and not also charter schools) means that DCPS has a lower score than the average of any state, not than the worst-performing districts in any state.
I'd venture that parents who want to expose their kids to real ethnic or socioeconomic "diversity" will have a much easier time doing so in an area where a wider variety of people arrived "by choice." For instance, I went to school with a lot of kids whose families emigrated from Ethiopia, Vietnam, India, etc. and I'm talking middle and working class families and generally those communities have not settled in DC but in parts of MD and VA.
And as other posters have pointed out, as long as there are "suburban" areas like Silver Spring that offer short commutes, transit access, a diverse population etc., DC will continue to struggle to improve its schools.
DCTAG pays up to $10K to cover the difference between in and out of state tuition for public universities. While a few Cal schools would rank highly (Cal more than Cal St), some DCTAG beneficiaries may have preferences for other top public universities like Michigan, Wisconsin, or UVA.
And the savings for Cal residents comes at further cost to in staters -- Cal loves out of staters because they can charge them more (upwards of $23K/yr), and they take up space otherwise needed by underserved in staters. At a school like Michigan that $10K will cover most of the difference.
Looking at the trends in the city vs. suburb - home values increasing in the city and decreasing in suburbs - we didn't want to be stuck with a home in the suburbs in 15 years that lacked value. Also, in 15 years our teenagers will not have to yearn for life in the city - they'll already live here.
I think you all need to find some people that actually went to the schools about which you speak and consider something other than the mutual hysterics of other yuppie parents too afraid to move out of your sweet scented bubble. Not only did I receive a decent education, but instead of being surrounded by a bunch of BMW driving 16 year olds, my class reflected much more of the real world and not the coddled existence of suburbia. It might be tough to stomach, but sometimes it's a good thing to build social skills with people who aren't like you in every way and learn how to deal with a more realistic representation of society than Whitman or TJ.
We love D.C. and didn't want our child to suffer through the boredom experienced by so many teenagers in the suburbs - even the close-in suburbs like Arlington, Alexandria, or Silver Spring.
Looking at the trends in the city vs. suburb - home values increasing in the city and decreasing in suburbs - we didn't want to be stuck with a home in the suburbs in 15 years that lacked value.
Do you really think that the metro-accessible portions of Arlington, Alexandria, and Silver Spring are all that different from DC? They certainly haven't experienced these home value declines you seem to think they have. I suppose this "boredom" measure is subjective, but it seems hard to believe that these areas differ much along that dimension either.
I totally understand why people wouldn't want to move out to the car-dependent suburbs to raise children (I certainly wouldn't!), but I don't get why some people in this discussion seem to see this dramatic, discrete difference between DC and non-DC. As I've said above, the presence of close-in urban areas that are separate jurisdictions is part of DC's unique problem, so denying it isn't particularly helpful.
Your kids will all do fine in DCPS.
The most successful parents of tiny toddlers I've seen are those who find a way to get involved in their neighborhood schools (and neighborhoods) as soon as they move in. Magically, their neighborhood schools and neighborhoods tend to improve.
I think my only stereotype of the suburbs was regarding their choice for a first car. Go to a parking lot at Whitman or Churchill or BCC and tell me there is no difference between that parking lot and the largely non existent parking lots at DC High Schools. I suspect it will be more similar to the St Albans or Sidwell mix than not.
The surest way for DCPS to never shake the bad rap is for everyone to keep quitting on it.
No: parenting is not for the lazy, emphatically, because otherwise your kids will grow up to be ax-murderers. Just kidding! But really, the parents that put the necessary time into raising their kids do better than those who don't, regardless of income or class. Duh.
The work a person does to get the best education possible in DC pays back in the shorter commute. I did a lot of research visiting schools over the past year -- now I do not have a 2 hour commute in perpetuity. Of course, YMMV.
It's just complicated. For example, I was one of the persons that pushed Tommy Wells to get pre-K 3 at the neighborhood schools. What gave me this idea? Two Rivers. They were doing it-- "why couldn't the neighborhood schools do it to?" I asked Tommy. Then he got Janey on board. Note, this was a pre-Rhee project, but I give her credit for not shutting it down, even though she was not a fan.
I will hang my head in shame and not post again for a long, long time!
It didn't matter. I wanted to learn, my parents made sure I studied even though my peers didn't care much. My standardized test scores were great even though other kids' weren't.
My kid will be fine going to a low-performing school in our neighborhood as long as we as parents do a good job making him interested in reading, writing, math, etc., and remind him to think of his future.
The only issue for me is security. As long as the school is essentially safe, even if my kid is a nerdy minority, my kid can go there.
I went to DCPS for 14 years from PreK-12, attended a public ivy (and had admission to actual ivy schools), and am now happily employed in a job that pays well and I like.
I don't think most folks here are saying that's an impossibility. They worry DCPS makes their child's chance of success less likely.
Of course, without knowing where you attended middle- and high-school (and roughly when) it's tough to address your points. Lot of rich kids on the Ivy track from Deal to Wilson. From Kramer MS to Ballou, not so much.
I work for a no-profit affordable housing organization in DC so I spend a big part of my work day in Wards 5, 7 & 8 and there are indeed challenges with a good chunk of DCPS schools there but be careful not to stereotype everyone who lives east of the river. They want what is best for their kids, and like you, will spend the goo-goo years (when kids are 0 to 2 yrs old!) talking to everyone they can find about schools.
So to all you single and young married couples out there: Enjoy sleeping through the night, not tripping on toys at 1 am, and going to the movies/dates whenever you want (as opposed to lining up sitters etc.). Most of all, look forward to the most wonderful and yes thankless role you will ever have: being a parent. You will get tons of advice (especially from your parents!) but in the end you as the mom and dad will make the choice that is right for your children. Don't get too stressed this early. Once they are in school you will have to start thinking about summer camp! Enjoy!
DCPS students should have a DC One Card which has the option for an unlimited monthly pass (metrobus and rail) for $30.
And the program applies to ANY elementary or secondary student in DC, not just DCPS students.
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