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Albany Medical College and Union Graduate College are offering a new joint degree combining medicine and business administration. This is the first time either school has offered a joint MD/MBA degree. Students are currently being recruited for the fall of 2014 and will be accepted at both Albany Medical College and Union Graduate College. The program allows them to complete both degrees in five years. "Today, a traditional 'doctor's bag' must carry a wider range ...
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Lewis and Hathaway are called in to investigate the death of a competitor at a professional quiz contest.
Lewis uncovers a blackmail plot following the death of Andrew Crompton, master of Gresham College.
As the body count rises during a murder investigation, Lewis and Hathaway suspect a pathologist knows more about the deaths than she admits.

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Masonic Temple, Monroe (1904)Saturday, May 28th, 2016 Posted in Colonial Revival, Monroe, Organizations | No Comments »
Washington Lodge No. 19, the first Masonic Lodge in the country named for George Washington, formed in 1791 in Monroe. By 1800 the Lodge completed what was the first Temple in Connecticut erected solely for Masonic use. This building was later moved to Hurd Street and became the Town of Monroe's first Town Hall. A new Masonic Temple was erected in 1904 at 1 Fan Hill Road. It is a Georgian Revival structure modeled on the central section of the White House in Washington, D.C.
Fourth District School/Masonic Hall, North Haven (1880)Wednesday, May 18th, 2016 Posted in Gothic, North Haven, Organizations, Schools | No Comments »
The building at 30 Church Street in North Haven was built in 1887-1890 as the town's Fourth District School. The lead-up to its erection was long delayed, as described by Sheldon B. Thorpe in his North Haven Annals (1892):
This district more frequently named the "Centre District," has probably always had a larger enumeration of children than any in the town and less room, per capita, to educate them in. In 1872 the proposition to furnish a larger school building was brought forward but voted down. The next year the Board of Education, seeing the need, declared to the district that unless better facilities were provided, its proportion of the public fund would be suspended. This alarmed the obstructionists and their opposition was temporarily withdrawn. A new school site was purchased and proposals to build were invited, but it was impossible to get any farther. For nearly six years, delays of one nature and another were put forward and the lot remained unbuilt upon. The death of Capt. H. H. Stiles, in 1879, a member of the special building committee, rendered a re-adjustment of matters necessary, and the district voted to sell the new site at public auction, November 4, 1879. Its Cost at the time of sale had reached in round numbers, $500. It brought $157.
To appease the Board of Education and compromise with the more radical ones of the district, new furniture was placed in the old building and a tax laid to cancel the debt.
The population was increasing, and in 1884 the project to build came up a second time. It was defeated. It was defeated also in 1885 and 1886. In 1887 it came up again as usual, and in this year secured a recognition. A committee was chosen to more fully inquire into the persistency of the petitioners, and the former unanimously reported insufficient accommodations, and recommended a change of base. The report was adopted, and after a thorough examination the present location was decided upon and purchased in August 1887. It was identically the same tract as bought in 1873, with the addition of a frontage on Pierpont Park, where once stood the ancient Sabbath day houses, and later several sections of horse sheds.
The building was designed by North Haven's prominent builder Solomon F. Linsley. The two rooms on the first floor were completed and ready for use in 1888 and a third room on the upper floor was fitted up in 1890. The fourth room remained unfinished at the time Thorpe was writing. Thrope goes on to write that
The practical working of the building has been found excellent in all respects. It is equipped with a finished basement, well, slate black-boards, bell, flag, modern furniture, and a local library. The course of study ranges from the kindergarten to that preparatory to entrance to the high school. It receives many pupils from other parts of the town, and is by far a more commodious and better equipped building than the average country town offers.
Today the building is a Masonic Hall, home to Corinthian Lodge #103, which was established in 1868. Corinthian #103's first Lodge was located in the Northford section of North Branford. After a fire in 1879 Corinthian #103 moved into Totoket Hall in North Branford and in 1917 to Linsley Hall in North Haven. After the Town Fire Marshall ordered Linsley Hall closed because of fire hazard in 1945, the Lodge acquired and renovated the old District No. 4 School, which was dedicated as the new Lodge on November 1, 1947.
Many of the building's decorative features and many of its windows have been removed over the years.
City Mission Building (1891)Saturday, April 16th, 2016 Posted in Hartford, Organizations, Romanesque Revival | No Comments »
The City Mission Building (also known as the City Missionary Society Building) is located at 234 Pearl Street in Hartford. The Hartford City Mission (also called the City Missionary Society) was founded in 1851 by the city's six Congregational Churches to provide for the welfare of Hartford's poor through Sunday schools, cooking and sewing classes and charity work. Designed by architect William D. Johnson, the building on Pearl Street was constructed in 1890-1891. It is a three-story structure with a tower on the side adjacent to the Goodwin Building. An illustration of a different design for the building appeared in August of 1890 in the Hartford Times and the Hartford Weekly Times. A clipping of this article was placed in the scrapbook kept by the architectural firm of Cook, Hapgood & Co. I am not sure why this design was not used.
An article in the Hartford Courant on August 14, 1890 ("Some New Buildings; Pearl Street Will Become a Busy Thoroughfare") described "the new and handsome building of the City Mission, which when completed will be not only one of the prettiest but one of the most substantial buildings on the street." The article mentions that "The second floor will contain a hall capable of seating two hundred and fifty people and a large room for the meetings of the City Mission board, and the ladies of the City Mission Association." City Mission Hall was a meeting place for various events, including the golden wedding celebration of lawyer John Hooker and his wife, Isabella Beecher Hooker, a women's suffragist and sister of Harriet Beecher Stowe.
The City Missionary Society sold the building in 1910, relocating to another building they had erected six years earlier on Village Street. The old organization no longer exists, but a new Hartford City Mission began serving youth in Hartford's North End in 1998. The building on Pearl Street was later used by the Italian-American Home and then served as the offices of a family of attorneys. The building has recently been on the market.
Camp Bethel (1889-1920)Thursday, April 14th, 2016 Posted in Churches, Folk Victorian, Gothic, Haddam, Organizations, Stick Style | No Comments »
Camp Bethel is a historic Christian camp meeting site in the Tylerville section of Haddam that is located on a high bluff overlooking the Connecticut River. It was established in 1878 by the Life and Advent Union. In the early years as many as 10,000 people would gather on the property for several weeks each summer. At first they stayed in tents but later began building small cottages on their camp sites. Over the years Camp Bethel grew to include a chapel, a memorial hall, two boarding houses and over forty cabins. Most of these structures were built between 1889 and 1920. The current Dining Hall was built in 1992, replacing an earlier building destroyed by fire. Camp Bethel continues to operate as a camp meeting site today, one of the few that survive in New England. It is owned by the Camp Bethel Association, a non-denominational, evangelical organization that holds camp meetings each August and also rents the facility to different religious and educational groups for retreats, conferences and workshops. [If you are interested in learning about another camp meeting site with Victorian cottages in Connecticut, see my post about the Plainville Campground]. Read on to learn more about some of the buildings and to see more images of Camp Bethel! Read the rest of this entry »
Alpha Delta Phi Society (1906)Monday, March 28th, 2016 Posted in Collegiate, Colonial Revival, Middletown, Organizations | No Comments »
The Middletown chapter of the Alpha Delta Phi literary society, based at Wesleyan University, was formed in 1856. The fraternity's first chapter house was built in 1884. It was demolished twenty years later and replaced on the same lot (185 High Street) by the current building (completed in 1906) designed by Charles Alonzo Rich (who also designed two dozen buildings at Dartmouth College between 1893 and 1914). An addition was built onto the rear in 1925. Alpha Delta Phi has been coed since 1972 and is one of the coed chapters that withdrew from the fraternity to form the separate Alpha Delta Phi Society in 1992.
Temple B'Nai Israel (1929)Saturday, March 5th, 2016 Posted in Neoclassical, New Britain, Organizations, Synagogues | No Comments »
The former Temple B'Nai Israel at 265 West Main Street in New Britain was built in 1927-1929 as a Masonic Temple. It was designed by architect Walter P. Crabtree. The Masons sold the building to the Jewish congregation Aheyu B'Nai Israel (Brethren Sons of Israel) in 1940. Aheyu B'Nai Israel was organized in 1889 as an Orthodox congregation, but reorganized as Conservative in 1924. Members who held to Orthodox views split off and built Tephereth Israel Synagogue. Temple B'Nai Israel closed in the summer of 2007. Its Torah scrolls were transferred to the Hillel organizations at Trinity College, the University of Hartford, and the University of Connecticut
The Abbey (1819)Thursday, February 11th, 2016 Posted in Federal Style, Houses, Organizations, Schools, Washington | No Comments »
In 1819, on Washington Green, a meeting house was constructed on the site where the Judea Parish House stands today. The building had a large upstairs space for town and church meetings and the walls were lined with shelves that held the town's first library. The first floor had several rooms. These were used for a time by the Judea Female Seminary, run by Mary Brinsmade, sister-in-law of Frederick W. Gunn, founder of the Gunnery School. In the 1870s, Gunn moved the building to its current location (16 Kirby Road), attaching a former one-room district school house to the rear. After Gunn's death in 1881, the house was the residence of his widow, Abigail Irene Brinsmade Gunn, familiarly known to Gunnery students as Aunt Abbey. For several years the house was a dormitory for the Gunnery School known as The Abbey. In 1912 it again became a private residence. It was remodeled by its new owners, who added a north wing around 1919-1925.


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Despite all the offseason discussion and criticism surrounding the NFL's all-star game, there will be one played next year. The NFL has announced that the Pro Bowl will be played in Hawaii on Jan. 27, 2013, which is the week before the Super Bowl.
What's baffling though is that no steps whatsoever seem to be planned to make the game more competitive. It's one of the NFL's worst kept secrets that the Pro Bowl is a joke, basically a relaxed flag football game played at half-speed by whichever of the NFL's elite and sort of elite players feel inclined to travel to Hawaii.
But then again, last year's Pro Bowl did average a respectable 12.5 million viewers, so maybe that explains the NFL's reluctance to change.
While it is a certainty that many players named to the Pro Bowl won't be there, it's still a tremendous honor, especially for those new players who get to make the trip for the first time in their career.
Over the past few years the Baltimore Ravens have been among the league leaders in Pro Bowl players. With that trend likely continuing in 2012, here are five players that could make their first Pro Bowl this year.


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Last night the Vera Wang Gang gathered with friends at our Madison Avenue Bridal Salon to gush about Vera's Fall 2014 Bridal Collection. Champagne and hors d'oeuvres in hand, guests received an exclusive presentation of of the dreamy pink gowns as well as a chance to revisit dresses from seasons past. We want to thank everyone who made the lovely event possible, especially Domaine Carneros Winery and PS Tailored Events for the delicious food and beverage!
Take a look below at some photos from our amazing night!


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The best Delta T for a mod-con?
January 2012
My Alpine is installed and working, thanks to the great plumbers I ended up with who did a great job.
There is one thing that bothers me a bit. The pump that was included with my Alpine 210 boiler for use in primary loop is a Taco011. My installation is almost exactly as shown in the manual, with less than 10 feet of 1-1/4" copper pipe in the primary loop (plus 4 elbows, two T's, pump with integrated flow check plus ball valve flanges ) - in other words there is very little resistance to flow. When I figure the head loss for the primary loop and where that crosses the Taco011 pump curve, it indicates I should expect a 20 deg delta T. And indeed this is what my system is seeing - 20 degree delta T.
The boiler is specified in the manual to run from 20 to 35 degree delta T. So it is within spec and I'm not having any trouble. But wouldn't my system be running more efficiently if I put in a smaller primary pump so that I got an increased delta T? I can tell by using my hand that even when all zones are calling for heat that there is positive flow through the primary loop T's.
In general I guess I'm asking whether it wouldn't be better for a mod-con to operate at a higher delta T? Doesn't that increase the amount of time in condensing mode and improve efficiency?
January 2012
edited January 2012
In my manual the boiler pump is a 0014 not a 0011. The 0011 is actually more pump then you need. On a 25 delta flow rate is 15.5gpm
.8' head. That's why the recommended boiler pump is a 0014. Manual gives you the flow rates and head for different delta's. The wider the better. The lower the return boiler water temp the better chances of staying in condensing mode all the time. Just don't exceed the 35 delta.
"The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
Tim McElwain
January 2012
I love to see
40 degrees if the system will allow it this helps to stay in the condensing mode much longer.
January 2012
Hi Tim
Agree on that 40. Size all Vitodens boilers pumps for it. Unfortunately the Alpine manual has a big NOTICE disclaimer not to run more then the 35 in the manual.
"The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
January 2012
They changed it
The manual that came with my boiler still says the Taco014, but they included a supplement to the manual along with the Taco0011. I think I would have been better off with the 014, but even that would have only given me a 25 degree delta T if my numbers are correct. I *really* wish they had included the Grundfos so I could try the different speeds, but unfortunately they didn't. By the way, the manual is also incorrect about the Grundfos setting - it should be at speed 2 and not speed 1 to get 25 degree delta T.
January 2012
Do not Change the pump
Installing a smaller pump will be of no benefit on the primary.
Slowing down the boiler pump will do the following:
1- Increase time water is in the boiler causing a higher temp RISE. (not lower return)
2- Increase the amount of boiler cycling on target temp.
3- Increase stack temperature (the heat has to go somewhere)
If you want more condensate, then you need lower return water temperature, at the design temp rise of the boiler.
The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)
January 2012
edited January 2012
Tim is right....
The higher the delta tee, the longer the boiler will stay in condensing mode. As the flow drops the supply temp will rise so the delta tee will be higher, however, the delta tee on system emitters will also rise, giving you a lower return temp. IE. If you need an average of 120F water in the emitters to heat your home at a specific outdoor temp you could supply 130F water and have a 110 F return (20 degree delta tee) or supply 140F water and have a 100F return (40degree delta tee). Both scenarios will give you the same heat output from the emitters, but since the return temp is lower for the latter, the boiler will condense more. In addition, you will only need a fraction of the amount of electricity to power the pump at 40F delta tee vs. 20delta tee. IIRC you will need only 1/4 the power. These combined reasons are why nearly the whole world has standardized on a delta tee of around 30 to 35F (except the US). Just remember, bot the primary and secondary loops need to be designed for a high Delta tee for the whole thing to work best.
The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)
Chicago's Steam Heating Expert
Noisy Radiators are a Cry for Help
January 2012
Primary pump (boiler)
Has no effect over what happens in the secondary (system) as far as system delta.
I agree increasing system supply temp will increase heat output from the radiators, or baseboard, etc...
The problem is you just increase the delta on the system, by reducing water flow.
The delta on the system will increase, but at a cost of reduced btu flow.
Reduced water flow equals reduced btu flow. No way around it. The next problem is the reduced system flow will result in more boiler supply to return bypass, increasing the return temp.
In order to increase delta correctly, there needs to be more heat removed from the boiler and the system.
For example: Existing high temp boiler (180) is replace in existing home.
For ease of math I'll use simple numbers.
Original boiler output 100,000 btu designed at 180 supply and 20 degree delta (170 av)
In order to emit that 100,000 btu the systems has 667 square feet of edr @ 70 degree space temp.
New boiler output 100,000 btu designed at 140 supply and 40 degree delta (120 av)
would require 2000 square feet of edr. @ a 70 degree space temp (more than triple)
So you can't just take an existing home and only change the boiler and reduce flow.
My point is flow is reduced flow is not the answer, increased heat emitter would be.
The key here is system design.
[Deleted User]
January 2012
edited January 2012
Big mistake! More flow = BETTER !!!
Thinking that the DeltaT of the boiler will keep you in condensing mode longer is the most common mistake we see when designing mod/con systems. The best option is a SMALLER DeltaT. Here's why :
No matter what is the boiler DeltaT, the system supply remains the same. Same amount of BTUs. Less flow with hotter water, or more flow with coolest water from the boiler. If you reduce the boiler flow, more return water will bypass the boiler. After you mixed with the return from the boiler, your mix will be at the exact same temperature.
It's absolutely NOT the boiler pump flow that will makes you condensate, but the SYSTEM pump. If you increase the boiler delta T from 20 to 40, and your system pump remains the same, the mix after the hot pipe from the boiler is thrown in the system will be the exact same. 200 MBH is 200 MBH. Basic principle of a primary secondary configuration and basic thermodynamics rules.
To make the boiler modulates better, you should always put a system sensor, which reduces cycling and tells you what the REAL supply temperature is.
1) That being said, with no flow variation in the SYSTEM, the return temp will be the same. So, if you have a return temperature of 110F, and you have a 40F deltaT in the boiler, the average temperature of the heat exchanger surface will be 130F. If you have a 20F deltaT, the average temperature in the exchanger itself will be 120F. The supply temperature, after mixing with the system flow that won't go in the boiler, is the exact same. Which option is better?? LESS DELTA T !!!
2) In both options, the flow in the boiler will be turbulent in those restrictive exchangers, so there's no difference on that side.
3) Most stainless steel exchangers have small passes, especially the ones with the Gianonni heat exchangers. Have a greater flow rate will keep you from blocking if there's ever a leak bringing fresh water in the system, or a lot of sediments in the system. We've seen a couple Lochinvar, Laars and NTI exchangers having overheating issues caused by 40F deltaT. Option? GREATER FLOW RATE
4) The energy cost of running a bigger pump is so little that we should even not talk about it. With 3 speeds pumps, having a pump adjusted to a superior speed draws 0.2 amps more. No big deal!!!
The REAL option to make the system more efficient? System pumps controlled with the outdoor temperature. Your maximum system flow is required only at the outdoor design temperature. So if you decrease the flow rate when the outdoor temperature is not too low, you'll extend the condensation range of the boiler by reducing the return temp. When it's colding down, the system flow rates increases, and then you fall off the condensation range of the boiler. (you would have anyways, probably...).
As someone said before, most system pumps are WAY too big. This is real bad for the MOD/CON boiler's efficiencies. However, the flow in the boiler itself should better be HIGHER since the return temp is invariable and the goal is to keep the biggest heat exchanger surface below the condensation point.
Cheers from a chilly -8F Montreal tonight.
[Deleted User]
January 2012
No, he's unfortunately not!
Be careful not to mix the boiler DeltaT with the system DeltaT.
In a primary secondary systemp, your system DeltaT won't go to 40F because you increased the boiler DeltaT to 40F. The system deltaT and supply temperature will stay the exact same if you just increase the boiler's DeltaT. And the DeltaT in the emitter won't change if you don't move the system flow rate up.
Example (round numbers for clarity only...) : System at 30 GPM. Return at 100F. 200 MBH boiler.
Option #1: 20 DeltaT. 20GPM in the boiler. The flow splits in 2 : 10 GPM (30-20) will by pass the boiler, at return temperature of 100F. 20 GPM will be heated to 120F in the boiler. After you mixed it : (10 GPM @ 100F) + (20GPM @ 120F) = 30 GPM @ 133.333F
Option #2 : 40 DeltaT. 10GPM in the boiler. The flow splits in 2 : 20 GPM (30-10) will by pass the boiler, at return temperature of 100F. 10 GPM will be heated to 140F in the boiler. After you mixed it : (20 GPM @ 100F) + (10GPM @ 140F) = 30 GPM @ 133.333F !!!!! (EXACT SAME!!)
By moving boiler DeltaT ALONE up or down, it changes nothing in the rest of the system. This was the purpose of the question.
But if you look at the two options, in which one the average exchanger (and contact surface) temperature was the coldest?? Option #1!! Which one is more efficient?? ......
[Deleted User]
January 2012
You got it!
You are absolutely right. Some of our clients did a LOT of savings by reducing the system flow in the mid seasons, when the max flow is not required. All this with a safe and efficient 20F deltaT in the boiler. See my post below... you'll see that it's even better to have a lower deltaT!!
The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)
January 2012
edited January 2012
Reduced water flow does not equal reduced btu flow....
What changes BTU flow is the change in average temperature in the emitters, not the flow rate. The formula is BTU/hr / (8.3 x 60 min x delta tee) = gpm.
100,000 btu/hr / (8.3 x 60 x 20) = 10.04 gpm
100,000 btu/hr / (8.3 x 60 x 40) = 5.02 gpm
Same btu's transfered, but 1/2 the flow.
In your example above, your first design runs at 180sup with a 20Delta tee, giving you and average water temp in the emitters of 170F. If you ran a 40 delta tee then your supply temp would need to be 190 F (return at 150) but again the emitters are at an average of 170F. Delta tee changes with reduced water flow, but emitters output is the same because the average emitter temperature is the same.
In warmer weather , the supply could be reduced with outdoor reset and very quickly the return temp will drop into condensing mode, even with emitter sized for 170F water on the coldest day.
The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)
Chicago's Steam Heating Expert
Noisy Radiators are a Cry for Help
January 2012
edited January 2012
Wow, thanks for all the replies
I'm sorry I didn't post more info about my situation, since several posts made reasonable assumptions that aren't true in my case. I'm sorry if I led you astray, but let me try to set the record straight and make sense of everyone's replies. Please don't be offended if I get it wrong - and if I do please let me know!!
I think everyone agrees that increasing the system delta T will improve the mod-con efficiency. System delta T here would be the temp that the boiler sends out versus the temp that returns to the boiler. Boilerpro quoted the equation that makes sense to me and that shows why this is true - namely that when flow decreases, delta-T increases since they are inversely proportional.
The question is how to achieve increasing system Delta T in a primary-secondary piped system.
Let me start by saying that my mod-con came with an outdoor reset sensor that is connected since that was suggested in a couple posts. And it is with this sensor in operation that I'm seeing the 20 degree delta T. I'm not sure what a "system sensor" is that AlHeating referred to - was this another name for the outdoor sensor or is this what is called a "header sensor" in the Alpine manual? The Alpine manual doesn't say why or when to use a "header sensor" - is this really useful for increasing system delta T (which is my goal) and if so how would it be connected?
One other suggestion was to increase my emitter EDR - but my house has old cast iron radiators that have more than enough EDR and I'm not realistically able to change that.
So the purpose of my post was to suggest that decreasing the GPM in the primary loop would be another way to accomplish this. First of all, note that I am currently seeing a 20 degree delta T with the circulator that was supplied with my boiler. But the Taco011 circulator is larger than the manual led me to believe it would be (since they changed it after printing the manual) - and I think it is larger than it should be. The reason I think this is true, is that the GPM through my primary loop is higher than the GPM through my secondary loops, even when both zones are calling for heat. (Note that I am NOT in the situation AlHeating assumed of having large secondary circulators). So there is always positive flow through the closely spaced T's. If I am able to reduce this positive flow through the T's by decreasing the GPM through the primary loop then there will be less water freshly out of the boiler that immediately returns back to the boiler, and more of this freshly heated water that will instead go through my secondary loops. Therefore my return temperature should be lower and therefore my delta T should be higher.
I hear the concern about making the primary loop circulator too small, and therefore making the delta T too large. The Alpine manual states that a delta T between 20 and 35 is fine. Would it be reasonable to try different circulators until I find one that will get me to a 35 degree delta T? Or should I be cautious of this - do I need to measure actual flow or is using measured delta T sufficient - or is there some other way to accomplish this? (I'm not crazy about the idea of removing a brand new and expensive circulator from my system to replace it with another brand new and expensive circulator if there is some other option).
Thanks again for all the input
The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)
January 2012
How I'd approach it...
Since it sounds like the flow through the system is higher than the boiler, I would begin by throttling down the flow through the system. This would start to increase the delta tee on the system. Most gravity converted systems need only little pumps. One for a 2,000 sq ft home probalby only needs a little NRF-9 or equivalent. You could also use a throttling valve on the existing pumps, but this will use more electricity. As you increase the system delta tee, you will need to ramp up the boiler supply temperature to achieve the same average temperature in the emitters as you had with a lower delta tee. With the lower flows in the system main loops, no you can throttle back the flow through the boiler. Again a smaller pump or throttling valves. With the reduced flows through both the boiler and system, you should see the coldest return temps you can get. Just make sure you maintain adequate minimum flow through the boiler.
With the low system flows you may need to balance the flow through your radiators in order to get even flow distribution and even heating of all the radiators.
The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)
Chicago's Steam Heating Expert
Noisy Radiators are a Cry for Help
January 2012
edited January 2012
Actually the reverse
I think you missed this in what I wrote above: "The GPM through my primary loop is higher than the GPM through my secondary loops, even when both zones are calling for heat. (Note that I am NOT in the situation AlHeating assumed of having large secondary circulators). So there is always positive flow through the closely spaced T's."
I have a very large house and *lots* of radiation - about 1200 sq feet of radiation in my radiator zone. My secondary circulator for this zone is quite a bit smaller than suggested in the article here that discusses using circulators in converted gravity systems:
Which is why I keep coming back to reducing the size of my primary circulator.
You said: "Just make sure you maintain adequate minimum flow through the boiler." How do I know this? Is it sufficient to check the delta temperature? If not, how do I measure the flow I am getting?
January 2012
Don't reduce boiler flow.
I'm not 100 percent certain of how the alpines algorithm decides how to modulate the burner, but I'm assuming it is like every on else and only looks at the supply temp to reach the target, and the return to see what the system is doing / track progress. They should base the modulation on the differential between the boilers supply and its return, but they don't.
So the trouble with reducing boiler flow is that the algorithm which governs the burners firing rate will drive the burner up the firing rate too quickly to reach its target, and since the water flow is reduced and with it the btu transfer to the water and out of the boiler to the system is reduced, the boiler will reach its target, and shut down the burner. Then once the temps fall again it will re-fire.
Lets say you follow your gut and reduce the flow in the boiler.
The supply water target at outdoor design is 180
System pump sized to 20 degree delta (180 supply to160 return)
Boiler pump sized to 40 degree delta ( 160 return to 200) you will cycle on limit!!!!
But at an outdoor temp at say 50, and the reset supply target now at 130 and that same desired 40 degree spread.
System pump sized to 20 degree delta (130 supply to 110 return)
Boiler pump sized to 40 degree delta (110 to 150) you will cycle on reset target achievement.
I see no situation to where reducing boiler flow will aid in any situation.
Leave it alone. The saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." exists for a reason, and this is it.
If you want less supply to return bypass in the boiler loop, then increase the size of the system pump.
The manufacture specked the pump they did for the boiler because flow through the boiler is critical.
January 2012
The manufacturer doesn't provide the equivalent head of the boiler, so that is difficult but could be calculated if you knew the pressure before and after the existing pump.By the way, and not that it matters, your boiler is on the secondary side.The loop off the closely spaced tee's is secondary.
[Deleted User]
January 2012
Thanks for the input!
Thanks for the update. If you have a greater flow in the boiler than in the system, it would not be a bad idea to reduce the boiler flow a bit so you have no recirculation of hot water coming back straight to the inlet of the boiler. This unlikely situation is the best way to kill the efficiency in the mid seasons because your return will always be higher than the real return from the system. It's good that your system pump is not oversized, but in your case, don't try reducing your system flow to save more money; it would make your "positive flow" even worst.
It was probably more than clear in my previous post than I'm not a big fan of reducing the boiler flow. But if you recircle water "backward" and your inlet water in the furnace is more hot than your system return, I would think about reducing the boiler flow just a bit. 35F deltaT will always look too high to me, but 30F could be a good compromise. Do it if you want to have the perfect system, but as many others said : don't touch it if it works.
To mesure the flow rates, you can use the deltaT at 100% rate. It gives you a precise enough mesure.
Finally, I was less than clear when talking about the system sensor! I meant a "remote manifold sensor". I wasn't clear at all!! Ahah Some manufacturers (Lochinvar is one of them) includes this sensor and a well in the box. This sensor, on the supply pipe, may help to prevent short cycling. When this system sensor is not present, the boiler uses its own outlet temperature to match the setpoint. This sensor being pretty close from the heat source, it sometimes can react too fast for the boiler. Putting a system sensor on the manifold gives a better idea of the actual temperature thrown in the system since it considers the amount of water that "by pass" the boiler when it reads the temperature.
Have a great day :-)
The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)
January 2012
Different people call the different loops primary and secondary. Sounds like your boiler loop has the most flow, so throttle it first. Many boilers have both supply and return sensors that can be read from the internal display of the boiler. To check for flow, the boiler and system has to be running at full output to achieve maximum delta tee. The delta tee drops at lighter loads since the flow stays the same, but the btu's moved drops. You may be able to throttle the systems loops too if your delta tee is still below the 30 to 35F range at full load.
Also, lets see a picture of your boiler piping, your desciption makes me suspect that the P/S tees may be installed incorrectly.
The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)
Chicago's Steam Heating Expert
Noisy Radiators are a Cry for Help
January 2012
Even another opinion
I run a lower delta-T to stay in condensing mode for a longer period of time. If you know the return temperature and add the delta T, that is your supply temp. We know that the cooler the water the more efficient the boiler is. We condense when any part of the boiler is below 130f. More of the boiler operating below 130f the more we condense and take advantage of latent heat.
If we operate with 110f return and work on a 35f delta T the supply is 145f. Most of the boiler will not be condensing.
Same return temperature 110f but a 20f delta T the supply is 130f Still condensing.
If the boiler is over sized reduce the input which means we can reduce the flow through the boiler but still maintain the 20 - 25f delta T.
Flow in a heating system does affect output of the radiation. Look at the charts. At the same water temp at 1 or 4 gpm the output is different. Also the delta T is lower as water becomes cooler. If you have a 20f delta T at 180f water and drop the water to a 110f water you will have much less delta T with fixed speed pumps and increase the resistance to flow. Cooler water has a higher resistance to flow that hotter water
As we drop water temperature with ODR I am concerned with doing a higher system delta T due to less heat at the radiation at the end of the loop. It can cause very uneven heating. Variable speed pumps can help in this situation.
The primary pipe is not always the boiler piping. The tees are always mounted on the primary pipe and the secondary is off the branch of the tees. Primary or secondary has nothing to do with the boiler but how it's piped. If the boiler is piped off the branches the boiler would be secondary piping.
February 2014
For my set up
I have been trying to see what speed I should set my boiler pump to. I have a tt 110 piped pri/sec. I find that the more flow I can get through the hx, the firing rate modulates better with a smaller delta t. My system delta t for all of my pumped zones are in the 20 range.
In the beginning, I thought that setting the 15-58 to speed one was going to get the best results and wide delta t, i found the boiler would high fire and hit set point and shut down. As soon as I switched to speed 3, the boilers firing rate would reduce due to a smaller delta t.
With my system, bb and high mass radiant, my mixed returns are more than a 20 degree delta t. So with the boiler pump on speed 1, the boiler spent most of the time on high fire due to the high delta t.
The problem I am having is with my tstat and outdoor reset working against eachother. I am starting to not like the tekmar 519 with pulse width modulation. The boiler is humming along and the tstat shuts it down. I wonder If I should scratch this tstat and go constant circulation?
February 2014
Try it and see
Set the stat for 85ºF and leave it there for a few weeks. Adjust the ODR curve and balance your emitter flows until your indoor temp remains stable across the full range of outdoor temps.
The posts above contain some misinformation.
February 2014
Pump speed
Low loss header, one pump on the primary flow, another pump on the secondary flow. To achieve the highest efficiency, should the two pumps (3-speed) be set at the same flow rate or different?
February 2014
edited February 2014
Not Necessarily
It's all going to depend on type of condensing boiler and the application. What I mean is what is the heat loss of structure, type of condensing boiler and each zone's heat loss. Boiler pumps tend to be fixed speed as is any 3 speed pump.
That pump is moving a fixed gpm flow rate every time it turns on. If you have a small zone let's say that only needs 2gpm but your boiler pump is moving 6gpm all the time the 4gpm left over has no place else to go other then to b-line right into the boiler return. This is sending 4gpm of nice hot boiler water back into the return thus elevating the boiler return temp and in most cases it takes the boiler out of condensing mode.
There are a few post above with some wrong math.
"The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
February 2014
If the boiler pump is set to a lower GPM than the system pump, that would keep the return temp low, but is there a drawback to this?
February 2014
edited February 2014
Delta t is set by existing radiation
Lets just say we have a one room house with one radiator. We do a heat load on the home and on a 30 degree day it needs 10000 btus to maintain what is being lost.
We look at our radiator, we measure it, we open the book and it says that piece of radiation will need an average water temp of 170 degrees to emit 10000 btus an hour. We look at our outside temp and it is 30 degrees...perfect. Ok so we figure if we put in 180 to the rad and we adjust the flow that we get 160 out...20 degree delta t, 170 average, we are emitting 10000 btus and are going to replace just what is being lost..that day and time.
We do have options, we could put in 175 degree water and adjust the flow that we have 165 coming out..again we have our 170 degree radiator, not too much not too little.
or we could put in 190 degree water and adjust flow that we get 150 out...average temp...170 and again were right on the money... you can do what you want, as long as your average temp of the radiator is 170, anything else is too much or too little for that day. It doesnt matter what you do back at the boiler, pri sec, straight through, whatever.
In a very short time the system will reach equilibrium and the boiler will modulate down to exactly what is being consumed...10000 btus.
February 2014
Increases the average water temp across heat exchanger
So, you could expect that, on paper, the boiler would be less thermally efficient. In practice, however, this may not be significant. And with some boilers in some systems, there are very good reasons for boiler flow to be significantly less than system flow (the heat exchanger simply can't flow as much.)
February 2014
The notion that a lower supply temp, rather than a lower return temp, would lead to more condensing, is one of those.
February 2014
The drawback
For me was the boiler not modulating its fire. A wide delta t forces the boiler to high fire for my set up due to the mixed high temp and low temp water return. If the target is lets say 150 and i have 130 coming back from my baseboard zone but only 90 degree water from my 3 slab zones, the mixed temp of all returning water forces the boiler to high fire. Condensing will always happen if all my zones are calling.
February 2014
I doubt that the boiler was high-firing
But there may have been insufficient flow for low modulation, causing the boiler to reach setpoint with the water it has in its heat exchanger while there's plenty of much cooler water in the rest of the system. I have seen similar behavior but the boiler was not on high fire. It starts at 50% modulation and it modulates down pretty quickly, but sometimes not quickly enough.
February 2014
edited February 2014
Seems everyone is forgetting the delta-T of system radiation changes with water temperature on fixed speed pumps. 20f delta-T happens at design temperature which is anything we designed at. Most existing systems if designed was normally 20f. If that system is run at 150f the 20f delta-T system is now about 14f due to non-lineal heat output as water temperature changes.
With all the variables ever changing in heating systems like delta-T, water flow even changes with water temperature there cannot be exact answers. Get things close and go with it.
BTW the Alpine boiler manual states no IFC pumps just under the pump sizing charts.
February 2014
edited February 2014
the old delta t debate...
i'm curious what impact unnecessary delta has on heat exchanger efficiency, assuming identical return temp.
a true counter flow, i would think, would be dependent on mainly return temp or modulation output as the primary variables governing boiler efficiency when the system is at equilibrium.
but a lot of these modcon heat exchangers don't look like counter flow. i would think, therefore, that such designs would suffer a more significant penalty from unnecessary high supply temp output, but i haven't seen any manufacturers' data that would suggest this to be true
February 2014
Thats one of the reasons our curves are not linear. We have to move them to compensate for these variables. Look what happens to convection after you get to 120.
The point is..the btu loss of the house is predetermined...The average temp across the existing radiation is also predetermined by the loss of the house.. Therefore the output of the boiler is also predetermined.... so if we are adding x amount of btus to raise the temp of x amount of # of water the whole thing will see equilibrium in very short order.
Piping it this way or that way means nothing( from a btu and temperature standpoint) of course some boilers have to be piped differently because of pressure drop issues.
February 2014
edited February 2014
I Think
Everyone is missing one key point...BOILER PUMPS are FIXED Speed. Boiler delta-t is always changing based on the systems flow demand and return water temp..You're selecting a boiler pump based on the flow rate wanted at design temp to get the full btu/hr out of the boiler.
If you are sizing a boiler pump for a 20 degree delta-t you will only get a 20 degree boiler delta-t on design day when the system side can pull out the entire flow rate of the primary/boiler side into the secondary and the secondary's delta-t is in full match and harmony..
"The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
February 2014
Is everyone missing that key point?
Gosh, good that we have you to bring us all to our senses. ;-)
Yes, delta T changes all the time, but with a lower fixed speed - output held equal - it will be higher than with a higher fixed speed. Which translates to somewhat higher boiler supply and somewhat lower boiler return. Which is what people have been discussing the pros and cons of.
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This review is from: EVGA GeForce GTX 970 04G-P4-2974-KR 4GB SC GAMING w/ACX 2.0, Silent Cooling Graphics Card
Pros: Fairly quiet, not very high power draw to compared alot of cards I am using a 500w Silverstone Strider series PSU to power 1 on my PC. I am playing Assassin's Creed: Black Flag at the moment maxed out at 1080p, it plays fantastically and the game looks great.
Cons: None
Other Thoughts: I upgraded to this from a Radeon HD 6950. For GTAV and MGSV upcoming mostly. Feels good to be back on team GeForce.READ FULL REVIEW
This review is from: ASUS RT-N66U Dual-Band Wireless-N900 Gigabit Router, DD-WRT Open Source support, IEEE 802.11a/b/g/n, IEEE 802.3/3u/3ab
Pros: Very easy to setup
Perfect router for watching streaming HD video if you have the internet service to justify it
I am in my basement, router on 2nd floor, = 5 bars.
Cons: None
Other Thoughts: My parents were trying to watch HD streams with the WRT-54g
Nokia phones have nothing on that thing
This review is from: Acer Laptop Aspire V3-572G-54S6 Intel Core i5 4210U (1.70 GHz) 8GB DDR3L Memory 1 TB HDD NVIDIA GeForce 840M 15.6" Windows 8.1
Pros: Acer seems to have struck a golden balance between portability, performance and price with this laptop.
Give or take, I haven't owned a laptop for personal use since 2010, when my toaster of a machine (known as the Dell M1530) finally died after a miserable 2 year run consisting of several part replacements and overheating issues.
This modest offering from Acer is luckily nothing like that. This notebook is a very "no thrills" budget machine that offers just about everything you would expect in a modern laptop.
Probably the most impressive feature of this light, stylish laptop is it's dedicated graphics card, the Nvidia GT840M. I just played a game of Dota 2 and it runs fantastically. I have it set to roughly "medium" settings 1366 x 768. Laptop got a little warm where the onboard card is probably seated but not hot by any means.
Cons: -No CD/DVD drive
-Screen is not great viewed at an angle
-Acer bloatware
Other Thoughts: Grade A for AcerREAD FULL REVIEW


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We report on optical parametric generation in a mercury thiogallate () crystal pumped by 16 ps, 1064 nm pulses at 250 kHz. A broad tuning range extending from 1.19 to 1.47 μm (signal) and from 3.85 to 10 μm (idler) is achieved. Narrow bandwidth, quasi-Fourier limited operation with high beam quality for the signal/idler pulses and pump depletion is obtained by continuous wave seed injection at 1.29 μm.
© 2014 Optical Society of AmericaFull Article | PDF Article


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Irish scientists join quest for 'wonder' stuff
Published 29/01/2013 | 05:00
ROLL-UP laptops, paper-thin smartphones and lighter aeroplanes may become a reality under a €1bn research project involving Irish scientists.
Millions of euro will be pumped into a European Commission project to investigate the potential of a pure carbon substance, graphene, which has been hailed as a "wonder material".
Both Trinity College Dublin and University College Dublin will be involved as more than 126 academics and groups from 17 countries examine the capabilities of the material.
Graphene has been described as the strongest, most impermeable and most conductive material known to man.
It forms in minute layers just one atom thick, yet it is 200 times stronger than steel.
Irish Independent


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Penelope Cruz is spotted wearing an Emilio Pucci ensemble at the photo call of her latest project with Emile Hirsh. The event took place in TIFF Bell Light Box at Toronto, Canada. The cast of the film, Twice Born arrives in matching colors. Penelope is wearing a blue blazer and a black pants. The rest of the cast arrives in different shades of blue, black, white and grey as well.
When asked about her movie, Penelope says "I knew the book [Twice Born] two years before I became a mother and really connected with it and understood this woman, even if I had never been in the situations she had been in.". The character she portrays is that of a mother to a teenage son who she takes back to the place where his father dies.
Penelope Cruz and sister Monica joins the list of celebrities like Kim Catrall, Beyonce and Robin Williams in teaming up with Nintendo for its ads.
The Cruz sister's sibling rivalry starts and ends in Nintendo as they tend to outsmart and outscore each other in the games that they play. Penelope admits that she enjoys and take the games seriously as she usually finds herself immersed in the game as her goal is to play and score better that her sister.
Other than acting, dressing up is one of the things that Penelope Cruz do best. Take the case of her Che Tempo Che Fa appearance attire at Milan, Italy on November 4.
The Spanish hottie is spotted wearing a Dolce and Gabbana top and pants. Elegance is the best word that describes her look as she wears a huge pieces of gold jewelry on her all black attire. With her hair down and her make up complimenting her greatest facial features, Penelope is the apple of the press' eyes as she chats with Fabio Fazio and Sergio Castellitto.
November 13 marked the release of the limited edition Penelope Cruz calendars for Campari. The calender will be distributed to friends of Campari features the sexy Spanish senorita in all shades of red.
In the event, Penelope Cruz arrived in a grey and black skirt and blazer ensemble by Armani, black shoes from Casadei and red Chopard jewelry to match her red lipstick. While she may look all covered up for the event, her face and her locks give her the unmistakable aura of sultriness.
Campari CEO Bob Kunzr Concewits and the man behind the camera that took the photos for the 2012 Campari Calendar Kristian Schuller was als present for the launching event.
Endorsements deals seem to overflow Penelope Cruz's cup these days as she is seen launching products here and there.
For instance her smoking hot Campari calendar was just launched a few weeks ago and now, she is up to something again. Apparently Penelope is out to stimulate the senses as she takes on the footsteps of George Clooney in being the latest Nespresso spokesperson.
In her first promo shots, she is seen wearing a form fitting lacy purple dress holding a cup and looking nowhere pensively. Yes, only Penelope can make staring blankly seem and look so sexy.
Considering the fact that Penelope seem to be taking her motherhood seriously, its probably with the help of Nespresso that she is able to juggle her several worlds: mother, actress, designer, wife effectively.
Its just another manic Monday for Penelope Cruz as her latest film, Twice Born premiered in Rome. The movie is written and directed by Sergio Castellito. The movie is about a mother bringing her teenage son back to Sarajevo where her husband died because of the conflict there. The film stars actors Emile Hirsch, Jane Birkin, Saadet Aksoy and many more.
Earlier that day, Penelope Cruz arrived for a photocall wearing a black leather coat with black round-toe pumps. Her hair is down and she was as gorgeous as the word gorgeous can be. The sexy leather coat has gold accents on its waist and sleeves.
Her next outfit is the embodiment of glamour as slips into a form fitting baby blue gown with a silver fringed shawl that matches her stilleto's color. The combination of sexiness and glamour is best represented by Penelope all through out that evening.
Penelope Cruz is one of the luckiest woman on earth, aside from her killer looks and stellar talent, she has a Javier Bardem for a husband.
Spaniards are known to be the best lovers in the world and it seems that Javier Bardem is trying to prove his point as he takes Penelope Cruz on a romantic date night in Milan. The two are dressed casually with Penelope wearing little or no make up at all. She is seen wearing a newsboy cap, a navy coat that goes well with her navy denim pants and a beige boots.
The Skyfall star is casually clothed as well. He is seen wearing a motorcycle jacket, black denim pants, a gray shirt, rubber shoes and a black cap. The two looked gorgeously simply and happily in love as they enjoy the night away from the limelight.
November 13 marked the release of Campari's 2013 calendar and boy, it was smoking hot. What made the calendar hot is its hot content. The award-winning actress of Vicky Christina Barcelona is dressed in fiery red as featured in the calendar. She claims that "I have really enjoyed starring in the Campari Calendar 2013; I found the superstitious theme extremely intriguing and stimulating,"
There are 9,999 copies of the said calendar that will be distributed by Campari to its friend and associates.
An international face for an international brand, both Spanish in its roots.
This is what most people feel with the recent introduction of Penelope Cruz as the latest face of Loewe. Loewe, being the number 1 leather goods company teamed up with Penelope Cruz, the most famous woman in Spain at its latest campaign. Stuart Vevers, the creative director of Loewe claims that the collaboration for the two big Spanish names feels not only right but very natural as well.
Gone were the days when life for Penelope Cruz meant partying wild and living free. blame it on motherhood or on getting older but the most famous woman of Spain is now seeing life at a different light.
"About ten years ago I had a wild, confused phase – I just wanted to get lost in life and not think about the consequences," she shares about her life a decade ago in an interview with a German Magazine.
For instance, she can not tolerate alcohol in the same way that she was able to years ago. She admits that a bottle or two is enough to get her tipsy.
Being a star means showing up at events wearing designer clothes. One minute you are wearing a Versace, the next a Vera Wang. As for Penelope Cruz, she loves to wear Azzedine Alaia designs these days.
The reason as to this startling Spanish actress is drawn to the Tunisian designer's work is due to the fact that in Penelope Cruz's opinion, nobody knows a woman's body other than Alaia.
It is no wonder that in the shot of her 2013 calendar for Campari, Cruz is spotted wearing several Alaia designs. "I liked so many of the dresses but I'm a huge fan of Alaia. I think he really knows the body of a woman.", she tells Vogue Magazine.
If your definition of a date means getting a girl drunk before taking her home, then Penelope Cruz is a cheap date as one does not have to dig deep into their pockets when having date with this hot Spanish mama. She claims that ""After two beers now I'm already tipsy. I guess, I'm what men would call a cheap date!"
Yes, she may not look like it but Penelope Cruz these days is not your average material girl. While she may portray roles of sophisticated women who look as if they would only date men with 6-figure salaries, Penelope prefers to stick with her two boys, Javier and Leo.
Call it a blessing in disguise as you know know how down to earth this Spanish star is but as they say, you can look but you can not touch as she is not even out and available in the dating market.
From handbags to lingerie, clothing to accessories, it seems that nothing can stop Penelope Cruz into getting in to the world of designing. "As an actress you get to go to these events and wear their things, it's fun. I don't put a lot of time into it but I respect what they do." she says in one of her interviews.
Not only that she is moonlighting into the world of design but it seems as if she is using her time to design as a way to bond with her sister Monica as they have been working together in her designing ventures. It is no wonder why she says that "It's great working with my sister because we are very close as a family – my brother, my sister and myself. We have a great relationship. It's a blessing because you want to be together as much as possible, so to work together is really great."
For instance, they have teamed up again for Agent Provocateur's lingerie line which will be released next year. Other than that, they also have a range of handbags designed for Samantha Thavasa, a Japanese store and of course, there is her work for Mango.


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Answered By: Peter Hesseldenz Last Updated: Aug 03, 2015 Views: 59
We have two databases that are very good for topics and events currently of interest. They are
CQ Researcher/CQ Researcher Global and Opposing Viewpoints. A quick keyword search in either of these databases retrieves short but comprehensive reports on topics. These are particularly good sources because each report on a topic includes background and chronology, an assessment of the current situation, tables and maps, pro/con statements from representatives of opposing positions, and bibliographies of key sources.
In addition, finding current newspaper, magazine and journal articles, many of which include the full-text of the article, is very easy in a database like Academic Search Premier.
You could also search InfoKat, the online catalog for UK Libraries to identify other resources like books, government publications, videos, maps, etc. on your topic. These are not likely to be quite as current as the periodical articles but would give you a more indepth treatment of your topic.
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Skip to comments.Pa. family on trial over seized gold coins;US says 1933 double eagles stolen from mint
Posted on 07/06/2011 6:42:48 PM PDT by Kid Shelleen
A jewelers heirs with a cache of rare $20 gold coins will fight for the right to keep them when they square off in court this week against the U.S. Treasury.
Treasury officials charge that the never-circulated double eagles were stolen from the U.S. Mint in Philadelphia in 1933. They could be worth $80 million or more, given that one sold for nearly $7.6 million in 2002. The coins come from a batch that were struck but melted down after President Franklin D. Roosevelt took the country off the gold standard in 1933
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
Even if they were stolen, isn't there a statute of limitations?
"...after President Franklin D. Roosevelt took the country off the gold standard in 1933..."
Uh, nice try AP.
What the stinking, stupid, socialist bastard did was outlaw the private ownership of gold, orchestrate banking "holidays" to get control of deposit boxes, and then mandated that a banking officer be present whenever a deposit box was opened and to confiscate all gold.
Also, he did not take us off the gold standard. He cut back the gold reserve to dollar ratio. It was Nixon who finally took us off the gold standard completely.
The coins are being held in Fort Knox. They may actually represent the only gold currency of any worth in that place.
There may be a statute of limitations on prosecuting them for theft, but AFAIK there's no statute of limitations on seizing the stolen goods and returning them to their rightful owner.
"...went to the U.S. Treasury to authenticate the coins..."
Whatta'ya? Kidden' me????
How stupid do you have to be???
Wasn't OJ operating under that theory, trying to recover his stolen memorabilia? He's in jail now.
Sounds like it the government's case to prove they were stolen, i.e. that absolutely none of them were sent out for circulation. It will be the heir's burden that the coins were obtained legally.
When the hyper greedy, rapacious federal government wants what you have, there is no statute of limitations or protection. That the country bequeathed to us by the Founders has been reduced to this by generations of disgusting politicians from across the political spectrum with barely a whimper from the people is beyond tragic.
Ping for later
And no one thinks they're not capable of stealing everything you have—all they have to do is just saying "mine".
Agree. The "government" needs the money - they have become like Hal in "2001 A Space Odyssey." Created to "help" but ultimately see it in their own best interests to destroy and confiscate to continue their survival.
Sounds like an inside job.
This is a tough call, because the government doesn't deserve to have them in light of their being evil gold stealing corrupt bastards, and the people don't deserve to have them, because their actions demonstrate that they have to be the stupidest specimens of humanity to walk the planet...
That said, back in the day it was pretty common practice to let issues "slip' out to employees and friends in exchange for cash value before the issuance. The books balanced, and a few folks got to hold new types before everyone else.
By outlawing the possession of gold, Roosevelt did take us off the gold standard domestically for all practical purposes.
Nixon simply closed the Gold exchange window to foreign governments. If he hadn't, Ft. Knox would have been cleaned out by European countries repatriating U.S. Marshall Plan dollars.
The challenge is proving they were legally acquired 80+ years ago. And if they've been held that long, how can it be illegal to hold them today?
If they were illegally acquired, then the rightful owner can reclaim them. It is the same way that heirs of Holocaust victims can reclaim the paintings and property stolen from them by the Nazis.
The 1894-S Barber Dime could be construed to be like this, it wasn't authorized to be issued from the SF Mint, but the director had the dies on hand and polished them to make 24 specimens for visiting bankers. He gave 3 of them to his daughter, one she spent on ice cream (and this is one of the surviving known specimens). 15 are floating around out there, probably in uncurculated/proof condition, and the last sale of one was for 1.8 million dollars IIRC...
I would say so. I interviewed with the Mint and they are very tight on security.
Wonderful and very apt analogy. Government has indeed become like Hal. :)
The coins come from a batch that were struck but melted down after President Franklin D. Roosevelt took the country off the gold standard in 1933
So this means that the coins would not exist if things had gone as planned. So the judge should order the coins to be melted down and the gold to be returned to the US mint. Heck just think...They will still make a profit.
So, the government seizes the coins and gains maybe a couple of thousands worth of gold. Or, the heirs sell the coins, make $80 million, and local, state and federal governments rake in millions in taxes. Which will the government do?
It's a no-brainer.
this makes no sense, the person accused of the crime is not able to defend himself, how can the trial be fair?
let the fam keep the coins... good grief...
If they were melted down they don't exist.
"The 1894-S Barber Dime could be construed to be like this, it wasnt authorized to be issued from the SF Mint, but the director had the dies on hand and polished them to make 24 specimens for visiting bankers. "
Theoretically, these could be seized under existing laws concerning coinage, but I doubt if it would be perused. There are a few other "semi-mythical" coins in this state, from what I remember when I enjoyed coins as a hobby.
I suppose that the only way to really force the legal issue would be to try to buy something with it, maybe also using a 1913 Liberty nickel in the purchase!
I've visited a mint (the Denver mint), and I think they designed the place so that someone is always watching everything. Otherwise, many "strange oddities" would start to appear in collections!
"I would say so. I interviewed with the Mint and they are very tight on security."
They weren't always so...there are many examples of "very strange" 19th century US coinage.
"Sounds like it the governments case to prove they were stolen...."
Not for 1933 double eagles. No such coin was ever released for general circulation; in essence, ALL existing examples are automatically stolen, and though they are pretty much just an ounce of gold apparently not much different than any other ounce of gold (.9675 tr oz) if that almost-ounce of gold happens to be in the form of a 1933 double eagle, the government has already gone to insane lengths several times to retrieve the very few examples that exist.
Buy $20 Liberty gold dolllars in MS 62 or better condition. 1 oz of gold with less than $200 Premium for scarcity. A good place to have some funds.
They merely need to produce the original receipt and affidavits from the original buyer and seller. If they cannot prove ownership, we must assume everything belongs to the State (or the Nazis).
" orchestrate banking holidays to get control of deposit boxes"
The bank holidays were intended to halt bank runs, I don't think it had anything to do with the gold issue. If there were breaches of safe deposit boxes during the bank holidays I've never heard of them.
Gold was being revalued in order to expand the money supply. The money supply had fallen by 30% over Hoover's last three years as credit collapsed, and revaluing gold from $20 to $33 served to increase the monetary base. It didn't cure the Depression, so all it really managed to do was reduce the personal economic freedom of Americans and increase the future prospects for inflation.
The Idiot on the Dime.
"Sounds like an inside job."
I believe it was. One of the Mint officials took a number of the 1933 coins out of the bags that were for melting and replaced them with other coins of the same denomination so the bags would weigh out right, then took the 1933s to a coin dealer who kept them for years.
Two different gold standards. One is the classical standard, the other the 'gold exchange standard' IIRC. Both served to restrain inflation. It's only after Nixon closed the gold window that the inflation of the 70s really took off. His option was put the economy into recession and reduce the growth of dollars, something JFK and LBJ had also been unwilling to do. The "Triffin Dilemma is what had confronted all three Presidents:
It seems that the state has an excellent case as they claim that absolutely no 1933 gold coins were issued by the government.
Not if the bring in a jury from Clearwater, Floriduh!
The coins were found in swamp.
Even if you "find" stolen items, the rightful owner can reclaim them. In many states if you find something worth more than $200 and make no effort to return it to the owner, you are guilty of theft.
Politely a Question.
Where were you when we in Floridah were holding the"Casey Anthony Trial"?
Did you need @/S notation?
It was a jab at the JURY(?).
Politely! G
That's why if you are going to buy art, you should always check its pedigree. If it was stolen, it can be taken from you with no compensation.
What does that have to do with this?
If a person had a item that there was dispute as to ownership, it would probably windup in a court somewhere. Do not think courts and especially in Florida would settle as you might think. I was comparing Juries good or bad.
It may never go to trial. I suspect that someone at the mint stole them or perhaps if they were semi honest, they threw a few pre-1933 double eagles in the pile to replace the ones they took (which is what I would argue). I would also argue that since the government melted down all the 1933 double eagles, they believed that they had no value other than the melt value so what does the government care if they melted 100,000 1933 DEs or 99,990 1933s and 10 1932s?
P.S. I hope the government loses because if they win, they can also argue that the five 1913 Barber nickles were stolen and they want them back.
Interesting fact is what I believe was exempt from FDR's gold grab were coins for numismatic value, and jewlry. I understand that a lot of people became instant coin collectors in the '30's.
Simple question.... If all the 1933 $20 gold pieces were stolen from the mint, why wasn't the one sold in 2002 seized also?
i believe it was seized by the treasury dept as well and they then got permission to sell it on the open market. That is how the price was established.
i believe it was seized by the treasury dept as well and they then got permission to sell it on the open market. That is how the price was established.
So the Treasurey sold the coin? What's next get the Smithsonian to sell the 1849 Double Eagle?
Not really. FDR partially took us off the gold standard. The private possession of gold had nothing to do with the amount of gold that was backing the cash. He outlawed it to strengthen the dollar, which the depression was killing. Typical statist. Stick to your ideology (the government can control the value of the dollar) and destroy anything that disproves that theory (commodities).
Read non-PC history. The bank holidays were intended to stop bank-runs, but they were also used to confiscate gold.
Which still had some value up until 1964, when it was 90% silver. The next year they took the silver out. The dime is currently worth about two cents (www.coinflation.com).
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