text:
Huawei, I love your phones — just fix your software, please
Recently I got my hands on both the Nexus 6P and Huawei Mate 8. I've already written about my experience updating from a Nexus 6 to a Nexus 6P, but now I want to share a little bit about my experience with Huawei when using a phone that is not running stock Android.
I want to preface this entire opinion piece by saying the Huawei Mate 8 is so close to being the best phone I've ever used, but a few issues manage to somewhat muck it up, and almost all these issues have to do with the software. For anyone who has ever used a Huawei phone, barring the Nexus 6P from the discussion, it is pretty much common knowledge that Huawei builds excellent devices but EMUI, its heavily skinned Android build, is arguably a mess. Okay, so that's maybe a little harshly worded, but it is somewhat poorly received by the western market, despite finding a ton of positive reception in the east.See also: Huawei Mate 8 review60
Now this isn't the usual "stock vs skin" conversation that one might have when talking about Sense, TouchWiz, LG UI, or other mainstream skins. Yes, I will admit that I tend to gravitate to stock Android devices, but certainly not exclusively. Not only have I used (and enjoyed) devices from a variety of manufacturers – including Huawei, using its late-2014 flagship, the Mate 7, as a daily driver for about a half year – I will be the first to admit that there are tons of redeemable things about pretty much all the aforementioned skins. In fact, some of the features (like Samsung's multi-window) arguably make some OEM skins superior to stock in a number of ways.
EMUI, on the other hand, has tons and tons of extra features, a highly customized design, but is laid out so differently that someone new to mobile OSes would be forgiven if they didn't realize that Huawei's OS is actually a customized version of Android. In truth, being different and loading the UI with features isn't the real problem. The main grievance I have is that is so much of the experience feels half-assed.
There are some cool ideas in the software, but they're mostly broken
One of my favorite things about stock Android, aside from the fluidity of the UI and the lack of bloat, is the consistency. Regardless of what phone I'm using, if it has a stock or a near-stock build, I can expect the app drawer, multi-tasking, settings, and notifications to all behave (mostly) the same. As a busy adult, having something that works well out of the box, but can still be altered to my liking, is important. Ironically, this sameness can also be one of stock's biggest downfalls.
If you are truly honest with yourself, you'll agree that stock Android can be a tad bit boring at times (maybe a little harsh, but you know what i mean). When I picked up my Nexus 6P for the first time and transitioned over from the Nexus 6, I instantly felt like I was using the same exact phone — just in a new shell. There was no sense of discovery, aside from a few things like setting up the fingerprint scanner. The Mate 8, on the other hand, feels like a completely different animal, for better or worse.
The thing about EMUI, in my opinion, is that there are so many good (or kind of good) ideas here, but poor implementation renders them mostly useless. Some of the ideas found in EMUI that I actually liked were as follows:
There's a voice assistant that is similar to Moto's assistant. It can wake your phone when the display is off, you can ask it to ring so you can figure out where your set your phone, and you can quickly dial your contacts. But that's where it ends. No integration into Google Now, web search, no frills at all. This is such a potentially cool feature, complete with the ability to use a custom phrase to wake your phone. Too bad it doesn't do more.
Knuckle Sense. The idea behind knuckle sense is that you can perform some unique motions to make your phone experience easier, in theory. You're supposed to be able to use your knuckles to record the screen, switch to multi-window mode, and to draw letters to launch applications like camera quickly. I say supposed to because I had terrible luck getting it to work, and while some might have no problem, my fellow colleagues, Josh and Nirave, had similar issues getting it to work. Again, a cool idea.. if it worked right. That said, the gestures would make more sense using your fingers instead, as its just more natural to do that then to start knuckling your fists against your phone.
Multi-window. Putting aside the issues I had getting it to launch half the time, multi-window is one of the features I really envy and would love to see come to stock Android. This is again a great idea, but only a handful of Huawei-made apps work with it, and most of these apps make little sense paired together. The end result is that you end up never using multi-window at all, and so it's not even close to as functional as the multi-window capabilities offered by companies like Samsung.
Those are some of the biggest features I would like and use more regularly, if they worked better. Then there's the stuff that I'm neutral about:
The notification shade. Huawei's skin uses a timeline approach and divides up quick settings into a different sub-screen within the shade. It's not horrible, but it's not better either. There's also some quirks with the layout here, such as some of the font ends up gray and hard to read, with Gmail being one of the worst offenders there. If they could fix aesethic inconsistencies, I think the notification shade would be tolerable or even good in some ways, though I still like stock Android's approach personally.
Settings menu. The settings menu in EMUI is loaded to the brim with options and is laid out very differently from stock. Is it worse? Not really, once you get the lay of the land. Some of the sub-features found here, like its advanced battery manager and the ability to slightly tweak the navigation icon layout, are actually kind of cool. But it presents a fairly steep learning curve.
Recent/multi-tasking menu. I have to give Huawei credit here. Back in the days of the Mate 7, the multi-tasking menu was aligned as a grid and was an absolute nightmare. Not only did it look bad, it was really slow and easily the most sluggish part of the whole UI. This time, the interface has windows that you can scroll through and swipe away. It isn't as fluid as you'll find in stock, but considerably better than in the past.
The things about EMUI that really turn me off
Above I highlighted some of the more useful features in EMUI. There's also some stuff I really hate about the software.
The iOS homescreen style. I understand some people might be fine with this, or even prefer it. I'm not one of those people. An app drawer would be a welcome addition. That said, if Huawei could solve its other inconsistencies and make its "additions" actually useful.. I'd be okay with installing a 3rd party launcher in order to get an app drawer (and it's what I already do, actually).
Ugly backgrounds on icons. As you'll see in the screenshot to the right, Huawei's icons are awful. Not only are they ugly, they force backgrounds on non-Huawei apps too, like Chrome. The whole thing just looks so disjointed.
EMUI updates are a rarity. Traditionally speaking, Huawei has a very bad reputation when it comes to updates. Just recently, Lollipop started to roll out for the Mate 7, now that Marshmallow is pretty commonplace for many devices. Typically, this has meant that when you buy a Huawei, you better like things well enough as they stand, because odds are the experience will stay the same during the entire time you use the phone as your daily driver.
Thankfully, there are signs that this is changing. In the US, Huawei sub-brand honor has committed to timely updates, and even the Mate 8 has already received a few updates to its camera and other aspects. Then there's the Mate 7, which is just now getting Lollipop, but has been lucky enough to get a Marshmallow beta recently.
My overall thoughts on the UI, in its current state
As for positives regarding the ui? Honestly, I have to say it's pretty fast and fluid, especially given the amount of bloat present. This likely comes down to the fact that Huawei uses an in-house chip with the Mate 8, and so there's probably a lot of optimization that has gone into making EMUI play nicely with the Kirin processor.
Anything specific to the software and its features that I love? Hmm.. good question. There are plenty of cool features I'd use if they worked better, but as it stands… not really. Most of the other EMUI features are on par with other skins or even stock, just laid out differently. Not necessarily worse, not necessarily better.
All in all, I find that Huawei's software is very workable… if you are willing to take the time to alter it to your needs. A 3rd party launcher, icon packs, and other tweaks allow you to fix some of the issues I've highlighted above. After that's done, you find that most of the other changes, you adapt to pretty quickly. That said, the average consumer isn't going to put in the work needed to get create this experience, and nor should they have to.
The great thing about Android is that you have the option to customize it however you like, but its out of the box (stock) experience is actually rather easy to use and learn these days. EMUI isn't easy to learn, use, or even customize… though it is possible.
What's the solution?
Many people might say that the best option for Huawei would be to ax its EMUI, at least for the western market, especially since the Huawei-made Nexus 6P turned out to be one of the best phones of 2015 by taking that advice. As a stock Android advocate, you'd think I'd say "absolutely, Huawei, go stock!" Honestly though, I really feel that EMUI has some hidden value, it's just covered up by a thick layer of inconsistency, ugly design, and bloat.
If Huawei ever wants to be taken as a serious player in the United States, and continue to expand even further in markets like Europe, they need to have an awakening similar to what we are seeing from Samsung. Starting with the Galaxy S6, TouchWiz has been scaled back a lot. As a result, there's less bloat, the useful features are more noticeable, and the whole experience feels much faster. With the Galaxy S7, Samsung is rumored to take things even further by bringing greater software/hardware optimization.
To me personally, the perfect Huawei skin would still retain many of Huawei's apps, such as its robust camera app, while slimming down on the less useful ones. It would also improve and refine special features like multi-window, knuckle sense, and voice assistance.
As for the rest of the elements like the multi-tasking menu, notification shade, homescreen, and settings — I'd like to see a near-stock look and feel. Sure, the settings could have meaningful additions to it, but the layout would follow more of a stock-like approach in my perfect world. The homescreen would have regular icons that don't look so cheesy, and there would be an app drawer. Basically, it would be Huawei's version of Motorola's UI: meaningful additions built on top of a solid stock-like base. And there would be quicker updates too.
That said, I don't need the "perfect" skin to start wholeheartedly recommending Huawei devices to friends and family. To satisfy me enough to recommend their experience out of the box, I'd want to see an app drawer, better consistency of design (no more weird font colors in the notification shade, etc), slimmed down bloat, and meaningful (fast) updates that fix software issues as they arise.
If Huawei just made a few minor changes that helped the UI feel more westernized, I think that western consumers would be more apt to give Huawei a try, even if the experience was still considerably different from stock. Sure, the more stock-like, the more familiar things would feel to new consumers, but it's not an absolute requirement.
Even with all that said, I really do love Huawei's phones and am super optimistic about the future of the company, both in the US and globally. I also do recommend their phones, such as the honor 5X and Mate 8, as long as you are the type of user that is willing and able to put in the work to make the UI more to your liking.
Okay, so that's my take. Obviously everything above was very subjective, and I understand not everyone agrees. What do you feel are the biggest issues with EMUI? Anything I missed? Conversely, do you feel that EMUI is fine the way it is? Share your thoughts in the comments.
- Daniel Cho
God that settings menu looks an awful lot like iOS…
- Sherpa
And the folders.
- robert fish
This UI looks really bad when there is no constant lighting plus the grey/white on black doesn't work in outdoor areas.
- Hotbod Handsomeface
I don't know how people can deal with stock ROMs. I'd be lost without side menus, pie menus, and customizable lower navigation bars.
- Sherpa
Not everyone wants to (or can) root. It's only for nerds.
- Hotbod Handsomeface
So is this website and all people who read it.
- Sherpa
We are talking about everyone. Not just people who visit this website.
- Sherpa
I never said I don't root. I rooted my phones before. I installed custom ROM on Windows phones before. My current Note 4 is not rootable. Plus, I'm talking about every Android users. Not just people who visit this website.
- Hotbod Handsomeface
Lol, you've basically said the equivalent of "I'm not racist, I have black friends."
And who the fvkk cares about people NOT on this site, when the article IS on this site and my question was directed toward those individuals who would be on this site?
Go away, troll. You're drunk.
- Sherpa
Not drunk yet. Party starts later tonight.
- Glenn
I root all my Nexus phones and then bring them to stock when I'm bored, just stick with your Samsung shit and be stuck on Lollipop, plus being Android user why is there XDA delevoper forums
- Sherpa
And you stick with your shit!
- nullified
how is note 4 even "not rootable" @@!
- Marc Perrusquia
The At&t and Verizon versions are basically unrootable. There's a temporary root for them, that ends every time you reboot but it's not ideal. Samsung phones on At&t and Verizon are VERY locked down.
- Sherpa
AT&T Note 4
- Fabrizio
And Xposed
- mrochester
The iOS home screen would be the biggest plus for me; anything that gets rid of the pointless division between the home screen and app drawer. I also like that Huawei have gone some way to fixing Google's inconsistently sized and shaped icons by making them all rounded squares. However, this is only partially successful because of the lack of consistently in icon sizes and shapes. Google really need to get a handle on this.
- i_say_uuhhh
I guess we just have different preferences. But I love that all my apps are not on my homescreen, for some odd reason it just doesn't sit well with me. Also Google has fixed the inconsistent sized and shaped icons with the latest update. Now wether they fixed it on anything other than Marshmallow.. I'm not too sure.
- Luka Mlinar
Not having a app drawer is a huge minus for me. I don't understand why Chinese OEMs that sell in Europe and the US still keep removing it.
- eddnav
iOS wannabe bullshit.
- Andre Senge
Don't judge until you actually try it, you might just like it.
- eddnav
Oh I have, my last phone before my Moto X Pure was a Huawei P6 Ascend. I got it for practically nothing and it was a good device, but I can't deal with that incessant necessity to emulate iOS design (and do an awful job at it) anymore after going almost stock again.
- Andre Senge
Well that was the Huawei Ascend P6, you should give the Huawei P9 a try when it comes out, it won't even be comparable to the old P6 EMUI in my opinion ain't so bad, i actually dig it but like mentioning in my other comment that having an option under phone settings to change between 'Stock' and 'EMUI' would be an amazing feature or at least update the EMUI more to where it looks less like IOS but to me i don't seen much of a resemblance to be honest. Motorola is a good company, thank god you don't have a typical Samsung phone, i don't understand why so many people like that f*#%ing ugly looking phone, beats me.
- Xavier Perez
I've never agreed with a article more than now
- Andrew Grush
Thank you, I appreciate the kind words. The funny thing is there are people (like our very own Joe Hindy) that jokingly call me a Huawei fanboy.. and I do like a lot of things about them.. even some stuff about their Ui. But ultimately, it just isn't what most westerners are looking for, and many of its best features just need more refinement.
- Xavier Perez
Great article. I've always believed that instead of wasting so much R&D on so-called "software improvements" that lack any practical functionality (Huawei's Knuckle Sense, Samsung's Air Gestures etc.) OEM's should improve focus on the phones hardware and work towards fast software updates (Similar to Motorola). Why so many OEM's try to "fix" an already polished OS like android with gimmicky half-baked features frustrates me, and probably turns off a lot of western audiences.
- mrochester
Exactly. Google should just close source Android and properly control it. That would get rid of all this skinning and feature bloat nonsense.
- Gjorgi Lazarovski
no, just no
- mrochester
I don't see why not. Best solution for Google and best solution for customers. Bad solution for Android OEMs but I don't care about them!
As Gjorgi said, just no. Think a little about what would actually happen if Android stopped being open source.
- mrochester
Customers would get a consistent user experience with timely updates. Win win.
Dude, you already have that, in the Nexus line. That's the whole point of the Nexus line. You have no idea what you're talking about.
- Xavier Perez
I'm not saying that companies shouldn't implement their own software in their phones, but I think there's a limit, such as when out of all of the premium phones out in 2015, the Moto X may be the only phone to have actually been upgraded to Marshmallow, and it's already February.
- Vatsal
I guess the UI of all the these Chinese OEMs is the same…very often i feel that they haven't even developed it on their own….its just that all of them bought it from a software firm all together in one piece and have it a shitty name of sorts….author has penned it very well…..honestly, seldom i comment on skin vs stock post..as I know the consequence , that an annoying douche would reply shit to me.
- Static
The fact is that it's way too similar to iOS. If you've ever used iOS 7/8 for a while you're going to notice it immediately. Icons, notification panel, multitasking (iOS 7, they changed it in iOS 9), settings, etc. That said, it's normal that the first thing people will say is: "this looks like an apple design clone". I know that this kind of design goes very well for the Chinese market, but they have to change their UI giving it originality. They need to make something that can be referred to as " Huawei's design", not "iOS cheap Chinese clone"
- Durga Pokala
couldn't have agreed with you more. Companies like this give bad reputation to Android and make people think that all Android phones are "ios clones"
- Andrew Grush
Exactly. EMUI works well in Asia, but the western market needs a version more tailored to our needs. It's the one thing that is holding Huawei back, in my humble opinion.
- eddnav
Totally, worst part is that their devices are actually freaking solid. Really well built stuff.
- Nickname303
The first thing Huawei need to fix is their attitude. Their Nexus 6P has a fault where on alot of peoples phones the glass that covers the camera visor has been spontaneously breaking for no apparent reason. And Huawei's response to this? Send it in for repair? Exchange the phone? Give you a refund? No. Their response is "we're not interested, go fix it yourself". So EMUI is the last thing I'd be worried about when buying a Huawei phone. I'm gonna steer clear of them if that's their idea of customer service
- Glenn
Have u had a Nexus 6p? I know a alot off ppl that do and I've never seen the black bit of the glass shatter its only in YouTube, just like the bend gate on the IPhone
- Nickname303
Nope, don't own one. But a quick Google search will show you that it's a problem
I tried posting some links but .y lost disappeared so I assume AA isn't happy about it
- Anon
you mean like 5 to 10 people who have complained about it so far out of the thousands and thousands being sold. pretty sure they dropped it or something and want a free replacement.
im sure that is not "alot of peoples"
- Marc Perrusquia
Mine hasn't cracked, but there are a bunch of hairline scratches that appeared out of nowhere. Right now I'm dealing with Google about an RMA, and they've been great. Can't speak for Huawei's customer support but it can't be any worse than Motorola's…
- Nickname303
It's more than 5 to 10 people! And the whole reason they're complaining is because they DIDNT drop it, it just breaks randomly for no reason. A reviewer on Android Pit had it happen to him. Are you suggesting that he's lying about it to to get a free replacement, when he could easily get a new free one anyway? Just because yours hasn't broken (yet) doesn't mean everybody else is lying!
- Anon
lol. most people bought it from the google store. google is in charge of replacing phones with defects so i have no idea what you are rambling about huawei. all that you have said is mostly irrelevant since easily more than 90% bought their 6P from the google store. yes, i pulled that number out my ass. it, however, doesnt mean that im wrong.
my LG nexus 5 had a screwed up speaker after 2 weeks of use and i dealt with google for a replacement since i bought it from the google store like most people. i dealt with google, not LG. most people deal with google for defects/RMA
- Nickname303
Google are washing their hands of the problem, that's why people are having to go to Huawei. Google refused to even comment on the problem when asked by Android Pit. And I know of somebody that was told by Google that they couldn't get a fix or a replacement for their Nexus 6P cracked glass because they must have dropped it. Google are denying that there is a problem just like Huawei are
- Anon
i dont know man. there are people living in canada with the freezing cold and then warmth in their home, alternating between the harsh temperatures and still no cracks. you cant blame google nor huawei for not believing them.
i find it really weird that google isnt replacing the phones though. they have always been very kind and lenient about it. it seems that they are pretty damn sure that the glass wont spontaneously crack.
- Nickname303
Yeah, I'm surprised to an extent too, to be honest. And yeah there's all sorts of theories as to why the glass is cracking, one of which is a sudden change in temperature. But that one has been pretty much proven to be wrong. And many of the instances of cracked glass has been when the phone has just been sitting on a table minding its own business! Maybe that's why Google/Huawei are reluctant to start fixing/replacing devices because they're not sure what the cause is
- Nickname303
Well, well. Yet another person has posted on Android Pit in the last couple of hours that their camera glass has broken too. They had the phone for 6 days, it was sitting on a table and spontaneously broke without even being touched. Still think it's not a problem? Still think everyone is overreacting? Or is it just because it hasnt happened to you that you dont care? Huawei apparently did an examination for warranty purposes on this persons phone and said THERE WERE NO DEFECTS. So Huawei don't think the glass visor breaking costitutes a defective device! Their idea of a resolution? Pay 60 Euros to get it fixed! Gee, thanks for the great customer service Huawei. Expecting people to pay out even more money, after buying your already expensive phone, to fix an inherent fault with your device is really the way to attract/keep customers. Telling people its not a defect is just treating them like they're stupid. How can you defend this stance by Huawei?
- Anon
er no. even if there are a 100 cases of these, it's still a very, very, small number.
the fact that there hasnt been a consistently huge number of people complaining about it, and that there are more people who sing praises of the 6P they have bought all over the internet.
there are problems associated with almost every phone ever released. it is the number of phones with these problems relative to the number of phones being sold that is important.
- Nickname303
Well there's enough people complaining about it for it to be the topic of articles and discussions on other websites, so its seemingly not a small problem. And as I've already said, even if it were a small proportion of people who are having problems, does that give Huawei the right to tell these people to bugger off? Is it OK for them to treat people like crap, just because there isn't "many" of them? You're talking as if 100 people being conned is OK with you (I'm sure its more than that, but whatever). If 100 people die in an accident tomorrow, will you say "oh its fine because there's billions of other people who are still alive"?
The proportion of people this problem affects doesn't really matter. Huawei are treating those people that DO have a problem, with contempt, no matter how many of them there is. I'll bet that if it happened to you and Huawei told you to get lost you wouldn't be so quick to defend them
- Anon
android blogs 1st posted articles about this when there were only 2 people who reported this problem at that time.
articles are no deal.
2ndly, unless that particular person uploads the exchange of emails from huawei, we will never know if what he said is indeed true.
3rdly, phones are phones, people's lives are people's lives. they are of different value. so that is a pretty damn unintelligent analogy you've got there.
4thly, i have yet to see any real proof of exchange of contact via email between any customer and huawei til now. all are just comments made on tech blogs like this that anybody could type.
5thly, i am not quick to defend huawei. in fact, you are too quick to accuse them of anything. innocent before proven guilty right?
lastly, if google indeed did not replace their defective phones, it is indeed very disappointing and downright wrong. if the phone was purchased directly from huawei, the same thing applies. they should replace phones which are defective. however, all the complains that i have seen so far have bought their phones from google.
i am not saying you are wrong, for trying to get a good product for what you have paid. i am saying you have come to a conclusion far too soon and believe too many things without hard proof too easily.
- Nickname303
True, I haven't seen any proof for claims that have been made on blogs by people. But neither is there any proof that they're lying. Why would lots of random people around the world suddenly start lying about it?
And my analogy may be an extreme one. I'm merely trying to point out that you seem to not have a problem with bad things happening to people just because its not many of them. Does a company only have to give good customer service once it reaches a certain amount of claims in your eyes? Even if I was the only person on earth who had a certain problem with a device, I would still expect a company to fix, replace or give me a refund if theyve sold me a defective device, wouldn't you?
- Anon
"Even if I was the only person on earth who had a certain problem with a device, I would still expect a company to fix, replace or give me a refund if theyve sold me a defective device, wouldn't you?"
yes. which is exactly what i wrote for my last point.
still, numbers matter. most people dont have a problem. all products meet a certain quality standard but in the end. there will always be defective units, even in iphones, samsungs, and LGs. in there, there are also many problems that are not resolved. my old nexus 5 still has the underwater effect sound in the audio of any video recording. shit happens. not everything gets resolved with every product. especially not if the numbers are far too small to be significant. what's ideal for the customer isnt whats going to happen in reality.
"True, I haven't seen any proof for claims that have been made on blogs by people. But neither is there any proof that they're lying. Why would lots of random people around the world suddenly start lying about it?"
man that's just crap. that's a logical fallacy. the burden of prove is on you when you try to say that they are indeed telling the truth. this is like the "you cant prove god doesn't exist" crap. you can prove a flying spaghetti monster or santa doesnt exist either.
- Nickname303
Youre saying theyre lying, so can you prove that too? I notice you didn't answer my question though. How and why have random people around the world suddenly complained about exactly the same thing if its just a lie? You seem to think that people have to prove that what you say isn't true, otherwise what you say must be true. Wow! So if you said that your penis is 12″ long, just because I can't prove its not, does that mean it is?
- Anon
lmao. you are obviously confused. you said they are telling the truth. i said they MAY be lying.
i wont know why they may be lying. getting people to hate china products because they lost their jobs? dropping their phone and wanna get a free replacement? whatever, i dont know. it could be anything.
you, on the other hand, claim that they are telling the truth. so the burden is on you to prove this.
you cant ask me to do the same thing because you dont prove a negative. you cant disprove santa exist either. that doesnt mean he does exist. it's different.
so make things simple, you need to give me a proof of impossibility or an evidence of absence of these people lying to prove that i am 100% wrong. as long as there can be people lying for an infinite number of reasons, i'm not wrong.
- Nickname303
Hmmm, not sure I've claimed anywhere that they're definitely telling the truth. Just taking the comments at face value and have no reason to doubt what they say at the moment. Maybe you're a massive cynic? Of course I don't believe everything i read online either. But with many random people saying the same thing I have no reason to believe everybody would be lying like its some weird conspiracy. Do you ask everybody to prove everything to you before you believe it? Is the only way you see anything as a reliable fact if you have a 50 page document proving every scintilla of information? Youre making yourself sound like a paranoid schizophrenic. I don't need to prove you're wrong! Like i say, you seem to be under the impression that what you say is true unless anybody can prove otherwise. You can speculate all you like about people lying. Im going to speculate that theres some truth in whats being said. Lets deal in facts shall we? The fact is that these comments and articles about the cracking glass exist. Unless you're bizarrely claiming that EVERY SINGLE comment and article on the subject is a lie, then surely you must concede that some people are telling the truth. Therefore it is a problem that exists
- Anon
lol? i dont care what you say about me at all. you may say im paranoid, but im not wrong. as long as im not wrong through a logical and scientific method, im alright with it. you are right now attacking me as a person instead of my words. that's call ad hominem. another logical fallacy.
in the end, you cant prove that they are telling the truth, you cant prove that that it is impossible for them to lie, and you cant prove that they could be lying for an infinite number of reasons.
- Nickname303
You seem to be a little sensitive. As far as I can see I haven't "attacked you". Anyway, dont you agree with my assertion of the facts as I see it? You haven't acknowledged that part of my previous post. Which part(s) of my comments on the facts (in my opinion) do you disagree with?
- Anon
"Maybe you're a massive cynic? "
"Youre making yourself sound like a paranoid schizophrenic"
" As far as I can see I haven't "attacked you"."
nope, you attacked me personally. these has nothing to do with my words being right or wrong and thus nothing to do with the argument. these are just your assumptions. they provide nothing to strengthen your points. just outright trying to portray me as a person with a problem.
i dont need to acknowledge what you said because it is unnecessary as it doesnt help in anyway to begin with.
i dont believe anything i see, nor do i NOT believe everything i see. i can always just leave it hanging as a question mark.
as long as there is no proof, i take everything with a pinch of salt. you should too. it is only logical.
in short, everything is just a question mark until proof is given.
- Nickname303
I said MAYBE you're a big cynic, and you make yourself SOUND LIKE a paranoid schizophrenic. And you don't seem to be able to tell me where my suggestion regarding the facts is wrong, so I'll guess that's because you actually think I have a point
- Anon
that's right. you said that. maybe or not im a cynic, it is irrelevant to the topic whatsoever aka useless content aiming at me as a person and not aiming at my arguments.
omg i have been polite and nice til now but if you arent going to read up about why you are wrong then please go and do that. you are wrong because as long as there is a reason for somebody to lie eg replace phones they dropped, sabotage huawei, earn money via youtube views, earn money from clickbait articles, just to name a few, your whole argument fails. it is a fact that there ARE many reasons for people to lie.
since there ARE reasons to lie, there is a possibility that one, numerous, or ALL of them are lying for an infinite number of reasons. there could also be none. but nothing is known until there is proof.
on the other hand, since people are innocent until proven guilty, huawei and google are innocent here until it is proven that the customers are telling the truth.
since there is no proof, huawei and google are innocent right now.
damn this is actually so straight forward.
- Nickname303
Innocent until proven guilty – right. So the people that you're accusing of lying are innocent until proven to be lying too. You can't have it both ways. You say that there are reasons for people to lie, well there's reasons for them to tell the truth too. I still can't see where you've told me which part of my assertion of the facts is wrong. Tell me specifically which part you disagree with. You still seem to be suggesting that there's a possibility that EVERY SINGLE person could be lying about this problem!!! And by your logic basically nobody should believe anything anybody says to them because there's a possibility that they're lying.
- Anon
lol wrong. the customer is accusing the company of defective products. therefore the companies are the defendants. therefore, innocent until proven guilty goes to the defendant. it is up to the plaintiff to provide the proof that they are telling the truth. no proof given here. therefore the defendants here, huawei and google, are innocent.
- Nickname303
Ok so by your logic nobody should ever be able to return any defective product because the company can always say "well you can't prove you didn't break it, so were innocent". That's crap. If a product develops a fault within the first 6 months of use it is deemed to have been inherently faulty when purchased, not of satisfactory quality, and not fit for purpose, and the onus is on the manufacturer to prove that it WASN'T faulty when purchased. This means that you can demand a repair or replacement. That is UK law and any company which refused to repair or replace in the first 6 months would be breaking the law.
- Anon
well then you underestimate the companies. they can quite easily find out what went wrong and if you are lying.
they designed and build their products. they know it inside out and tested it rigorously and have the govt regulations up their asses. this is why companies take feedback, test it, and acknowledge defects if actually present, and sometimes do a full recall of their products.
"If a product develops a fault within the first 6 months of use it is deemed to have been inherently faulty when purchased, not of satisfactory quality, and not fit for purpose,"
yes, if the product is defective by itself.
warranty doesnt cover stupid shit END USER mistakes like dropping the phone in a lake of fire or into a swimming pool.
returning a defective item is fine. returning a phone and asking for a replacement because of a mistake an end user is not.
the whole argument here is about the fact that it is uncertain if the customers who reported the glass spontaneously cracking is telling the truth. if the companies dont think it is a fault with their products after testing, then most probably the customers are lying. if the customer insists he is telling the truth, then he can go to a court to get a 3rd party to do the testing to see if there is any defects in the product. if there is, the companies loses. if there isnt, too bad for the customer. if the customer has a video of it spontaneously cracking, all the better. that would be fulfilling the customer's burden of proof.
til now, there isnt one.
- Nickname303
If somebody has dropped the phone it will likely be damaged in a way that the manufacturer would be able to tell that the phone was dropped. And they would of course tell the customer to get lost, and rightly so. Similarly if the phone shows no evidence of being dropped they can't prove that it wasn't a defective device. And when theres a number of people making the same complaint they must realise that, like it or not, theres a chance that some of their products could have an inherent defect. Like i say, the onus is on them to prove it wasn't a defective device. Lots of people either don't know their rights or can't be bothered to exercise them. Companies know this and try to fob people off. That's what pisses me off and that's what I don't stand for personally
- Anon
like it or not that's how it works. they will prove it wasnt a defective product to themselves unless a customer takes them to court and a 3rd party is hired to do the testing.
no customer really has the full ideal rights that you are talking about. ever.
what right the customer has is his power to choose what to purchase the next time.
i was just screw over a few days ago by a well established american company, corsair. i will simply not buy from them again. of course, this is little protest of mine is pretty much useless as long as the number of defective products is too tiny to make a significant impact. this applies to this particular case too.
anyway, there are people bending phones all the time and replicating results.
somehow, replicating the cracks on the glass doesnt seem possible til now. nobody seems to know. other than a direct impact, of course.
- Nickname303
You're right, companies will try to get away with it, it happens regularly. What I've been saying all along is that this is likely exactly what Huawei is doing and therefore their customer service, and lack of respect for their customers sucks and makes them a company that I don't want to deal with. That's why I first commented on here – to make other people aware of Huawei's attitude so that they will steer clear of Huawei too, if customer service is something that they value. Customer service seems to be something that alot of companies don't care about anymore. As soon as they've got your cash they're not interested
- Anon
nah, that is jumping to conclusions.
only the customer themselves will know the actual truth.
the rest of us will never know anything. if you are so hell bent on spreading bad stuff about huawei then nobody can stop you. but dont try to make it seem like it's justified. it isnt. you dont even own a 6P. all you've seen are comments on blogs.
also, i find it suspicious that you single out huawei. google here should be the 1st point of contact, followed by huawei. there may be a freudian slip here from you.
- Nickname303
I've already said previously that Google should be the first people to approach. But they are telling people to speak to Huawei or their service provider. They were asked by a journalist to merely comment on the situation and they refused. Thanks for nothing Google. So then you go to Huawei and they don't help either. Google are as bad as Huawei. And damn right I'm trashing them. Theyre treating their customers like trash so I'll make sure that as many people know as possible so that at least some people can avoid being treated like that. And like I've said a million times, unless you're claiming that EVERY single comment on the internet regarding this subject is a lie (which is ridiculous), then there must be some truth in it. I'm fairly sure you're a troll now as even the most stupid people wouldn't be claiming that just because we cant prove that everybody isnt lying then we shouldn't believe ANYTHING any of them say. And if you're not a troll then I feel sorry for anybody that knows you, because it must be hell for them being around such a distrusting idiot and conspiracy theorist. And yes, that was a personal attack, deal with it. But then again, there's a minute possibility that this isn't really happening and its all a dream, so maybe you shouldn't worry about it hahha. Enjoy your statistic filled, suspicion addled life
- Anon
lmao. take a class. and be sure not to ever step into a casino.
- Anon
oh, and be sure to never use android again. be sure to stop using all google products or you will be a hypocrite.
- Nickname303
Unfortunately Google has taken over the world along with apple as far as smartphones are concerned so I'm unable to avoid them unless I want an apple phone, which I dont. It's half the reason Google treats customers the way they do, because they know that unless you want to go to apple, there's no viable alternative but to stick with them
- Anon
so much for standing up for your rights
- Anon
yeah, if you wanna go the way of a personal attack, it reveals much more about you, than about me :)
- Nickname303
Actually it says that you bring out the worst in people by spouting your inane ramblings
- Anon
if some random person on the internet can do that to you, you have much bigger problems to worry about.
- Nickname303
I meet random people all the time on the internet and in real life. 99% of the time I get along with thosepeople fine
- Nickname303
I meet random people on the internet and in real life all the time. 99% of those people I get along with no problem. But I only listen to people talking crap for a certain amount of time before I find myself beginning to wonder what's happened in their life to make them the way they are. You appear to have massive trust issues. Whatever happened to cause those issues I don't know, but I think most people would concede that not everybody is lying about everything, which is what you seem to think
- Anon
rofl. you still dont get it now do you. it is not that im saying that they are lying. i am saying it is possible for them to lie. i dont actually know. neither do you. i've had my fun with with you but nice try trying shift the thread from fact based empirical data to personality disorders. gd day
- Nickname303
Yeah and you don't get what I'm saying either. I'm saying that just because its possible for people to lie to you, to expect proof for every little thing that anybody says is deranged. For the millionth time, unless you're suggesting that EVERY comment on the subject has been a lie, then there must be at least some that are true, therefore the problem exists. If you ARE suggesting every comment is a lie then you're deranged and paranoid. It seems you possess no common sense and lack the ability to think clearly and think for yourself. Do you consult the scientific community for everything? Only someone with "issues" would seriously suggest that EVERY article and comment was a lie. Theoretical possibilities exist, but use your brain and it will tell you that insisting that just because they exist nothing can be trusted without proof is going to make it look like you're missing a few things in your head
- Anon
"but use your brain and it will tell you that insisting that just because they exist nothing can be trusted without proof is going to make it look like you're missing a few things in your head"
lol no. just your normal old logical fallacy
- Anon
"but I think most people would concede that not everybody is lying about everything, which is what you seem to think"
oh yeah, slippery slope fallacy i see.
- Anon
oh yea "You still seem to be suggesting that there's a possibility that EVERY SINGLE person could be lying about this!!!"
yes. though unlikely, there is a possibility. you seem to have missed statistics class
- Nickname303
And you seem to have missed common sense class and real world class. Youve just admitted there that it's unlikely that everyone is lying, so unless you're gonna see every situation as neutral because nothing can be definitively proved or disproved, youve got to go with the probabilities. And the probability is that not all these people are lying, youve just said that yourself. In your eyes no facts exist because you can always say "but can you prove it 100%" or "but there's the slightest, most ridiculous chance that this isn't so, therefore I'm not going to accept it as a fact" A ridiculous way of thinking! Take your eyes away from your statistical textbooks for one second and try engaging your brain and common sense instead of being brainwashed
- Anon
"Youve just admitted there that it's unlikely that everyone is lying,"
i've done that since the beginning. maybe you should reflect on your reading skills.
unlikely while still very possible. i've repeated that at least twice.
" And the probability is that not all these people are lying, youve just said that yourself."
yes, probability is different from being definite. with the current scenario still staying only in "probability" and will continue to be so until proof is given.
- Nickname303
Hahaha FAIL. Youve still got your head in that textbook I see. And you seem to be confirming that until things are "definite" or "until proof is given" you're not going to accept anything anyone says. Ok, so I'm going to assume that youve got a partner that you live with, for arguments sake. Does your partner ever cook you a meal? Hmm maybe you should start cooking your own meals because there's a tiny chance that they could be slowly poisoning your food. But hold on a minute. Before you go to the kitchen to cook for yourself, be careful, there's a slight chance that your partner is coating the door handles of your home with poison too. Maybe you should wear gloves to open the doors from now on. In fact, maybe you should go out of your home where it will be safe from harm. But oh no! What if you have to walk past any trees? There's the smallest ridiculous chance that as you're walking past one of them that it could uproot itself and land on you . Do you see how silly your outlook on things sounds? Just because there's a microscopic chance that something could happen, guess what, the probability is that it won't. And if you live your life like that you're going to be very odd!!! Doesnt sound very logical or rational to me!!! Watch out for those killer trees!
- Anon
look up slippery slope. that's what you are doing.
- Nickname303
I don't need to read about statistics or slippery slopes thanks. I've got my own mind and my own common sense which tells me that the possibility of the existence of lies in any given situation shouldn't mean that I demand that every little detail about that subject is proven 100% before I believe anything about it. Your insistence that what anybody says shouldn't be believed unless it can somehow be proved 100%, because there's a possibility that they're lying, is insane. Theoretically, yes, there will be a minute chance that everybody could be lying. But REALISTICALLY its a ridiculously small chance. REALISTICALLY alot of those people will be telling the truth. The last time I checked, I was living in the real world where realism pervades, not some alternative universe where theoretical rhetoric is followed in day to day society. I assume that you want all of our prisons to be empty? Because in your world nobody would ever be convicted of anything because there will always be a chance, no matter how small, that they could theoretically be innocent as there's never going to be 100% proof that somebody has committed the crime. Notice that when the people of a jury are addressed by a judge before deciding the defendants fate, they are told that they must vote guilty if they believe BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT that the defendant did it. They don't say vote guilty only if you're 100% certain, because REALISTICALLY nobody can be. These are the rules our society lives by, not your "everything needs to be proved 100% or its nonsense" attitude. Seeing as you seem to like statistics, let's look at DNA shall we? The chances of 2 people having the same DNA profile is around one billion to one. So, if your way of thinking is correct, we should release anybody who has been convicted using DNA evidence because there is a small one in one billion chance that it was actually someone else with the same DNA profile that committed the crime. That's how your world would work, yes? I'll stay in the realistic world thanks. I'm interested to find out why you give so much gravitas to statistics and concepts such as the slippery slope. Have your statistics been proven to be 100% correct? Do you have 100% proof that the slippery slope concept in fact exists? As I've said, I'm not interested in things being proven 100% personally, but as you are constantly bleating about ideas being unusable unless they've been 100% proved then I would assume that you would only quote concepts that have been proven beyond any iota of doubt. So could you please prove to me 100% that these are valid concepts that youre quoting, and not just something that everybody is lying about? If you can't, well, you're not following your own mantra are you?
- Anon
just a bunch of slippery slope strawman nonsense you wrote there.
common sense isnt common, which is why we spend more than 20 years of our lives educating ourselves. but yeah, you go right ahead thinking you are right based on your common sense(which is wrong) rather than proper logic and probability.
- Nickname303
Ok, I've changed my mind. You're clearly not a troll, you're a politician, as you seem to be an expert at avoiding answering questions that have been asked of you, instead choosing to make ambiguous statements. Can you just answer my questions from the previous post? What are your comments on the situation with people in prison and DNA evidence etc that I have mentioned? Everybody in prison should be released according to your logic, yes? DNA evidence is rubbish according to your logic, yes? Simple questions, but you seem to have a problem answering them. Give me proof that your precious slippery slope concept is 100% true, if you don't you will have shown to me and everybody else that you don't follow your own sentiments and you're full of crap. Point me to the 100% proof that you have for the slippery slopes validity. You're the one that's insisting that 100% proof is needed for peoples claims to be legitimate, so show me the 100% proof for your claims. And are you saying that what I've said is untrue? Are you denying that the judge in a court of law says to the jury BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT? Are you denying that we as a society live by those rules? Or are you saying that I'm imagining all of that, and that really everybody lives like you? You're the one with weird views, most other people are capable of coping with daily life without needing ultimate proof of everything they see and hear. I've given you a specific example there of how society lives by the rules of accepting doubt and dealing with it (the law of the land , no less!). But I suppose your ideas are more valid than hundreds of years of law in a civilised society, yeah?
- Anon
lmao. you are the one who is talking about people in prison and DNA evidence in a tech blog. and im the politician? :)
while analogies are useful, sometimes only to make things seem clearer, each scenario has its own degree of severity and trying to portray both situations as the same is just wrong.
come on now, your understanding of law is at such a low level that you do not even know that innocent until proven guilty applies to the defendant and that the plaintiff carries the burden of proof. if you want to talk about law, then we need a 3rd party to do the testing. man seriously you are the real politician here with all your logical fallacies.
- Nickname303
Well I have to resort to anything I can to try to prove my point. And now I've succeeded. Youve shown yourself to be stupid. You still haven't answered my questions after asking you for a second time and you still haven't given me 100% proof of the slippery slope concept that you keep quoting. By YOUR OWN standards (not mine) you need to 100% prove it or its not valid. I've given you the opportunity to do that twice and you haven't. Youve proved to me and everybody else reading our little conversation that you're full of shit and can't answer questions to back up your ridiculous outlook. So mission accomplished!!! You're a joke! You know, it must be interesting when you get on a flight. Because you probably go storming into the cockpit of the plane and demand 100% proof that the pilot has a flying licence. And what about when you're at work? Do you march into the wages department every hour and demand to see 100% proof that youve just been paid for the previous hours work that youve done? Because after all, theres the smallest, stupidest chance that they lied to you when they said they would pay you for every hour you work. Go back to living in your stupid little bubble and the rest of us will carry on living in the REAL world. Goodbye
- Anon
nice rambling but still slippery slopes that have no relation to the actual situation that we are talking about, the n6p. i have proven it. from the beginning. n6p is the subject. you exaggerated the degree of severity to try to make it comparable to other non-related scenarios. then you made a strawman argument by using the said slippery slope scenarios and try to portray that that is indeed what i have said, which is of course, untrue.
i have answered and made everything i have said clear since the beginning. your lack of ability to read and comprehend sentences is not my problem. you have been making up imaginary situations to compare it to our topic. you accused me of trying to be a "politician" by diverting the topic, which ironically, is exactly what you have been doing.
3 or 4 logical fallacies. impairment of logic. poor comprehension skills. lack of education. lack of understanding of law. that's you.
- Nickname303
I've proved to everybody that you're full of shit and you lack the ability to back up your own theory, so I've achieved what I wanted to regarding our conversation. So like I say, goodbye
- Anon
no you didnt. you are just saying you did. that doesnt make it true.
your actions showed that you did not.
- Nickname303
Hahaha. Accept you're a joke and move on. For the last time GOODBYE
- Anon
once again, just because you said it, doesnt mean it's true. your actions proved otherwise.
- Nickname303
I could just as easily say the same thing to you. Just because you're saying what you're saying doesn't mean its true either. Anybody can say that, that's how empty your comments are. Im gonna leave it now for other people who read our conversation to make their own minds up. You see, everybody else reading this will be able to make their own decision about things in life (unlike you), including our conversation. They won't need statistics and bullshit to make any sense of things. They'll just read the things we've said, take them at face value, digest them and form an opinion. They won't demand proof of everything we've said. Thats how normal people operate. So its goodbye from me
- Anon
the majority isnt always right. logical fallacy = appeal to majority.
another mistake there.
- Nickname303
Yeah there you go again. The majority of the human race is wrong and you're right. Hahha
- Anon
i didnt say that. thats a strawman argument.
i said the majority CAN be wrong("isnt always right"). i did not say the majority IS wrong(what you said)
once again, poor comprehension of english.
- Nickname303
You suggested that the majority isn't always right, therefore you're saying that the majority can sometimes be wrong. As that was a response to my post saying that most people believe one thing and you believe another, lets relate it to that shall we, as your comment was apparently a reply to that? In the scenario that I gave, and that you responded to – The majority = most other people. The minority = you. Youre therefore inferring its a possibility that the majority (most other people in this case) could be wrong and you could be right. I'm now waiting for you random crap filled answer
- Anon
exactly. why are you repeating what i've just said lmao
- Nickname303
Erm, so you are now admitting that you just said you could be right and everyone else is wrong? That's what you just denied that you said in your previous post! You're losing it. As you may have noticed, I've been intending to end our conversation but I must admit I'm finding it hard to resist pointing out the crap in every post youre posting!
- Anon
it could be any way. im not hell bent on saying im right. it all depends on the actual truth that nobody knows.
from the beginning i have always left the conclusion as a question mark, because we know nothing without any proof. i have always been stating the possibilities possible since neither of us know any hard facts.
you on the otherhand, have always only insisted on one,only, and final conclusion.
i could be wrong, or right.
the same applies to you, right from the beginning.
why? no proof of anything is given.
- Nickname303
So you ARE admitting that you think it's possible that you are right and everyone else in society is wrong! For you to be arrogant and stupid enough to believe that has confirmed to me again that you are a first class idiot and have delusions of grandeur
- Anon
it isnt arrogance. it is not even about me. i have zero pride at all in this matter which is why i am unbiased. the content is more important than me.
because i do not argue for the sake of any pride, i know that it is very possible for me, or other individual to be right, and everybody else is wrong.
- Nickname303
Hahhaha wow OK, well then I give up. There's no way I can ever make someone that thinks like you see sense. Enjoy dreaming about the possibility that you're the all-knowing oracle, just because nobody can prove that it's not possible
- Anon
once again, you dont prove a negative.
once again strawman, i have never said those words.
- Nickname303
You can't prove a negative? You're constantly stating that as a fact. Google search "proving a negative" and you will instantly find respectable figures in the field will say that this is in fact complete shit. To quote just one of them, Professor of philosophy at bloomsburg university – Steven D Hales:
"It is widely believed that you can't prove a negative. Some people even think that it is a law of logic—you can't prove that Santa Claus, unicorns, the Loch Ness Monster, God, pink elephants, WMD in Iraq and Bigfoot don't exist. This widespread belief is flatly, 100% wrong. In this little essay, I show precisely how one can prove a negative, to the same extent that one can prove anything at all."
You're constantly basing your whole argument on something that is utter crap and you're stating it as a fact. Like I keep saying, you're a complete joke
- Anon
lmao so u do indeed went to google after all. i have thought that "common sense" would be enough to satiate you.
in fact, i did address this earlier. you need to have proof of impossibility or an evidence of absence to fulfill the requirement of proving a negative. i have got neither from you. you need to carry on reading more before answering prematurely.
- Anon
in the end, you still need proof buddy. even if its to have proff of impossibility or evidence of absence. in a way, you still do not prove a negative directly. that's because you need a positive to prove a negative.
nice to see you jumping on the intellect bandwagon for a change instead of "common sense"
- Nickname303
Well I've had no choice but to "jump on the intellectual bandwagon" because you want stop quoting intellectual bullshit as fact. And its nice to see that you're following your usual stance of thinking you know better than anybody else. You're now suggesting that you're right and a professor of philosophy is wrong. My common sense that I always stick to tells me that you're full of shit, and I have many other people saying the same thing (such as professor Hales and various others). I'm sure you'll forgive me if I believe what a professor says rather than believing someone who I've only seen speak utter garbage
- Anon
right. that's what you call appeal to authority.
professors have conflicting opinions all the time in every field. nothing special about it.
you really are unintelligent which explains all of your statements.
- Nickname303
Ok so if proving a negative is a subject that has conflicting opinions why have you been stating it as a fact and telling me that it's not possible to prove a negative? You didn't say its debatable whether a negative can be proved or not, you said a negative CANT be proved
- Anon
nope. you cant prove a negative, now, unless you give me proof of impossibility or an evidence of absense, which you couldnt and still cant do. therefore im not wrong in this context. it is a fact that YOU cant prove a negative
- Anon
oh yeah, and i didnt say the professor is wrong. in fact i agreed with him. so thats another strawman for you.
i said i addressed it earlier that you need to have proof of impossibility or an evidence of absence. so i agree with him :)
- Nickname303
Erm, OK so he says that being unable to prove a negative is " flatly 100% wrong". You agree with that statement then do you? Hahha if you do then you're admitting that you're wrong all along. If you don't then your last comment is a lie and you DONT agree with him. Make your choice "buddy"
- Anon
yes. that is unless by proving the negative itself with a positive which inherently makes the statement contradict itself. it depends on the perspective but he is not wrong to say that.
- Nickname303
So you admit that he is not wrong. Which, as he is saying the opposite of what you've been saying, makes you the one whos incorrect. And he doesn't say anything about it being from a certain perspective. Instead, he says exactly the opposite. ITS FLATLY 100% WRONG is what he says, he doesn't say it depends on your perspective
- Anon
what horrible logic you have. it just means that he is not wrong and i am not wrong either. it depends on the context of his answer. your assumption that what i said is the opposite of his is inherently flawed.
PS: not wrong does not equate to being correct.
- Nickname303
Hahha your reluctance to accept what is right infront of you is getting comical. There is no context to consider when looking at what the professor says because he says your argument about not being able to prove a negative is 100% wrong. No ambiguity, no need for context, it doesn't depend on this, that or the other, its flatly 100% wrong in his eyes. You say my logic is flawed? Well the professor says your logic is wrong so as I've said previously I'll stick to agreeing with him thanks. Youre now saying that what he says isn't the opposite of what you're saying? Youve consistently stated it as fact (I.e.100% correct) that it's NOT possible to prove a negative. The professor categorically says that people who say that it's not possible to prove a negative are 100% WRONG to say that. So, unless you're using some sort of weird dictionary to everyone else that gives a different meaning for the word "opposite", it definitely sounds to me like his view is the exact opposite of yours. Explain to me how what I've just explained is not correct. Also tell me why for the last couple of days youve been insisting that it's a fact that you can't prove a negative, but then as soon as I give you proof that it's not a fact, you then backtrack and say that it's actually something that people have differing views on, and is therefore not an indisputable 100% fact. You're changing your story as you go along which makes it look like you either don't know what you're talking about or youre just purposely talking crap (trolling). Your theory basically has more holes in it than a used target in a firing range. Are you actually reading what you are posting? You're actively helping me in my quest to show that you're a moron! Do yourself a favour and stop making yourself look like an idiot infront of all these people
- Anon
obviously you do not understand if somebody does not reject your application, it doesnt mean that he accepts your application.
- Nickname303
Well what a surprise, no answer to my simple and specific questions again. You can't answer my questions and justify what you've said because you're talking shit. It's hard to prove what you're saying when it's nonsense isn't it? Hahaha
- Anon
i have answered every one of the qns time and time again and you have repeatedly said otherwise.
it really isnt my fault you have such bad comprehension.
you have been struggling to keep up since the beginning with endless flaws in your points, repeated making poor thinking mistakes appealing to majority and even authority. you've endlessly made strawman arguments by changing my points and attacking it from there. you have committed endless ad hominems. and you somehow actually think you have a coherent argument. heh heh
and hey, in case you have forgotten, there is still no proof given if they are telling the truth. nothing has changed with all your unrelated analogies. you cant confirm they are telling the truth. i cant confirm they are lying. we know nothing. innocent before proven guilty. nothing happens.
- Nickname303
I really think that you're on drugs. Either right now, or you have been in the past and its messed up your brain. You're imagining that youve answered questions when you haven't. What was your answer to my previous question about the professor having the opposite view to you, even though you insist that he doesn't? Seems like you didn't answer that one. And unless I'm mistaken you still haven't told me why you went from insisting 100% that you can't prove a negative, to admitting that theres many people out there who consider it to be rubbish, which means its not a fact, and now youve gone back to insisting that it is a fact that you can't prove a negative again! Look, it doesn't matter how many times you say that to me, I will always believe what professors say over anything that you say so you may as well save your breath. You just keep repeating the same vacuous, vague, substance devoid statements to everything. You sound like a robot thats only been programmed to say a few things and just repeats them over and over and over again even though they have nothing to do with what I've just asked. I think you require an upgrade. The way that you're talking is troublesome – nothing is certain, everything is unknown and "nothing happens". Well like I've said to you previously, the world would grind to a halt if we all had that mindset. So what normal members of society do is we actually make things happen. We make decisions, make choices and act upon things based on common sense, experience and intelligence, even though – and I know that this is going to be hard for you to believe – even though we don't have absolute proof of everything we encounter, and without having to disprove everything as well. Normal people digest all the information that comes their way and act on it as they see fit. They don't sit there saying " we know nothing" like a gibbering idiot curled up in a ball in the corner of a room like you just said, as if life is some sort of enigma that we can't deal with because we don't have the absolute answer for every little thing that happens to us on a daily basis. Is this true, is that wrong? Who gives a shit? Just make your own judgment on it and react accordingly, that's how everybody else lives. You obviously have problems, problems that are way beyond anything I can help with. You dont seem to possess the ability to cope with the most basic principles of living in a normal society. A complete denial that what you say could possibly be wrong, even when faced with things that show you're wrong. Changing your view to suit the current conversation. Imagining that youve answered questions that you haven't. Basically you act like youve got a mental deficiency. Get yourself help before it goes too far. There may still be hope for you to integrate yourself into normal society instead of suffering your current turgid existence. I will expect the usual drivel from you in response
- Anon
" What was your answer to my previous question about the professor having the opposite view to you, even though you insist that he doesn't?"
i have answered it. it isnt the opposite of my view. it is looking from another perspective. it is different from being opposite. something you seem to be unable to understand.
"And unless I'm mistaken"
yes, yes you are. multiple times.
"I will always believe what professors say over anything"
yup, just another appeal to authority.
"You sound like a robot thats only been programmed to say a few things and just repeats them over and over and over again even though they have nothing to do with what I've just asked. I think you require an upgrade. The way that you're talking is troublesome – nothing is certain, everything is unknown and "nothing happens""
trash that adds nothing to help your points but rather reveals more about your ability to stay on topic and inability to argue objectively, aka ad hominem.
"even though we don't have absolute proof of everything we encounter, and without having to disprove everything as well."
true, but when you want to argue or fight for something as strongly as you do, intelligent people make an effort to find out the absolute truth 1st.
"Normal people digest"
dont care. appeal to majority.
"that's how everybody else lives"
appeal to majority
"you dont seem to possess the ability to cope with the most basic principles of living in a normal society. "
i would consider myself upper middle class and doing very well in my personal life but i thank you for your concern even though i dont care what you think, at all.
the rest of what you said is your usual unrelated information that isnt the least useful to anything at all.
- Anon
oh, also, watching you trying so hard to portray me as a person with mental deficiencies only reveals your own insecurities about your points and yourself, because none of it is actually relevant to the topic.
narrating the current situation by stating thing likes "I will expect the usual drivel from you in response" mean absolutely nothing at all except showing your desperation and weakness.
- Nickname303
Oh, sorry, do you have problems coping with conversations that throw unexpected things at you? Oh yeah, I forgot, you're a robot that can't deviate from what you've been programmed to do. All you can think about is statistics and philosophical theory, so when anything else is mentioned you're screwed. Like I say, you need an upgrade Mr Robot. My comments are relevant to the topic that you have now created and my resulting quest to show that you're an idiot. Have you forgotten that my original post was regarding Huawei and their EMUI skin being the least of things I would worry about? YOU were the one that joined the conversation insisting that I had no right to say things like that unless i could prove them 100%. You're the one that turned this into something about proof, not me you imbecile, i was merely making a comment based on how i see things and YOU waded in demanding proof of what i was saying. Basically in your eyes comments sections like this shouldn't even exist because none of us can prove what were saying is 100% true, accurate and correct, so none of us should bother to say anything
- Anon
"Oh, sorry, do you have problems coping with conversations that throw unexpected things at you? Oh yeah, I forgot, you're a robot that can't deviate from what you've been programmed to do."
ad hominem, dont care.
"All you can think about is statistics and philosophical theory"
thanks for proving you cant be objective and logical.
"YOU were the one that joined the conversation insisting that I had no right to say things like that unless i could prove them 100%. "
wrong again. another strawman. you do have the right. freedom of speech. you can say whatever you want. just dont try to pass it off as it being a justified or educated opinion.
"not me you imbecile"
ad hominem, dont care.
"i was merely making a comment based on how i see things and YOU waded in demanding proof of what i was saying. "
yes, i was merely asking for proof to verify the truth and merely exercising my right to make a comment as you have done.
"Basically in your eyes comments sections like this shouldn't even exist because none of us can prove what were saying is 100% true, accurate and correct, so none of us should bother to say anything"
slippery slope there.
anybody can comment freely. anybody can state their opinion. you did. i did. what's the problem? cant take it when people call out on your horrible logic? cant take the heat? not my problem. we are both free to comment.
- Nickname303
Where in my original post did I say that I was stating proven facts that I know to be true? I was just stating my opinion on what I'd read elsewhere and making people aware that the negative comments about Huawei exist. Just giving my opinion and passing on information that people can make their own mind up about. The 100% proof of the veracity of those comments that I've found on the internet about Huawei didnt really cross my mind as being of great interest for my post because people will read the comments themselves and make their own educated decision on whether they want to believe them or not, just like I did when I read them. I wasn't forcing anybody to do or believe anything, just putting the information out there that I found negative comments about Huawei. You however demand proof that all those comments are true – something that I've never said that I can prove, and something that you know that nobody realistically could prove. Again you show that you have no concept of how normal people think and make decisions by themselves, we don't all live our daily lives consulting statistics and erroneous, unrealistic, hypothetical, philosophical rubbish. I bet you're popular at parties aren't you? Every time someone says something to you you only respond by saying "that's strawman" or "that's an ad hominem statement youve just said there". I guess you're the sort of guy that everybody avoids like the plague at parties so maybe you don't get to talk to people much anyway. I'm not stating that as a fact, its merely my opinion, is that OK with you? You must be finding it hard to hold a conversation with me now because all you can do is cut and paste my comments and follow it with " strawman" or "ad hominem, or " slippery slope". Are you getting $10 for every time that you use those words or something? What's the point of you saying what kind of statement my comments consist of rather than actually giving a lucid response? When you walk down the street with someone do you just go around saying "tree", "truck", "human", " bicycle", inanely categorising what type of things you see, instead of having a conversation? You sound like a caveman. You seem infatuated with categorising my comments rather than responding to them. I don't care if what I say is ad hominem or whatever else you want to say it is, its how I feel, its my opinion, so I'm putting it out there. Why would I take any notice of someone who makes such ridiculous statements as you anyway?! Speaking of which, you really are trying to rewrite the English language aren't you? Haha. What you said in one of your previous posts is one of the best yet! You said that you don't have the opposite opinion that the professor, though he's 100% sure you CAN prove a negative, and youre 100% sure you CANT prove a negative (sounds like the description of opposite to me!). You say that you both just have different perspectives. Do you understand the English language? If someone has a different perspective to you that means that they don't see things the same as you, they don't have have the same outlook as you. In other words they DONT AGREE WITH YOU. How does to have a different perspective on a subject mean that you have the same opinion!!??? Let's look at other words for opposite shall we? Conflicting, different, contrasting, dissimilar. Well blow me! All of those words describe your and the professors opinions. You have conflicting opinions, different opinions, contrasting opinions and dissimilar opinions. You have OPPOSITE opinions like I have said. But let's not leave it there. Lets look at other words for the word that YOU YOURSELF used – perspective. Other words for perspective include: view, outlook, atttude, mindset, viewpoint. So when you say you and the professor have a different perspective, what you're actually saying is that you have a different view, a different outlook, a different attitude, a different mindset, a different viewpoint. In other words YOU DONT THINK THE SAME, YOU THINK THE OPPOSITE TO EACH OTHER. There is absolutely no ambiguity in what either of you claim! You claim one thing, and he claims completely the OPPOSITE of what you say. So stop trying to rewrite the English language just to suit your bullshit. You really have excelled yourself with this one. How you fail to see that you're making a fool of yourself is beyond me! So, go on then, start cutting and pasting parts of this post and adding "slippery slope" or some of your other useless and pointless categorisations to them. Have fun!
- Anon
"Where in my original post did I say that I was stating proven facts that I know to be true? I was just stating my opinion on what I'd read elsewhere and making people aware that the negative comments about Huawei exist."
true, you didnt say that you stated proven facts. i merely pointed it out. nothing wrong with that whatsoever.you stated your opinion, i stated mine.
" You however demand proof that all those comments are true – something that I've never said that I can prove, and something that you know that nobody realistically could prove."
that's right. nothing wrong with wanting proof if you want to know the truth. you stated your opinion, i stated mine. cant take the heat? not my problem
" Again you show that you have no concept of how normal people think and make decisions by themselves, we don't all live our daily lives consulting statistics and erroneous, unrealistic, hypothetical, philosophical rubbish. I bet you're popular at parties aren't you? Every time someone says something to you you only respond by saying "that's strawman" or "that's an ad hominem statement youve just said there". I guess you're the sort of guy that everybody avoids like the plague at parties so maybe you don't get to talk to people much anyway. I'm not stating that as a fact, its merely my opinion, is that OK with you? You must be finding it hard to hold a conversation with me now because all you can do is cut and paste my comments and follow it with " strawman" or "ad hominem, or " slippery slope". Are you getting $10 for every time that you use those words or something? What's the point of you saying what kind of statement my comments consist of rather than actually giving a lucid response? When you walk down the street with someone do you just go around saying "tree", "truck", "human", " bicycle", inanely categorising what type of things you see, instead of having a conversation? You sound like a caveman. You seem infatuated with categorising my comments rather than responding to them. I don't care if what I say is ad hominem or whatever else you want to say it is, its how I feel, its my opinion, so I'm putting it out there."
this is not a party. if you behave everywhere in the same way as you do in a party, i have bad news for you.
pointing out logical flaws in your arguments help me filter out the unimportant and unrelated points which i have no interest to discuss about.
anyway, lots of unrelated content once again from you which doesnt help to further strengthen any of your points.
" though he's 100% sure you CAN prove a negative, and youre 100% sure you CANT prove a negative (sounds like the description of opposite to me!)"
yes, as i've stated earlier, he indeed proved a negative, but using a positive which in the end, isnt really proving a negative per se, as proving a negative via the form of a positive is in itself proving a positive. therefore it depends on his definition of "proving a negative" in a direct or indirect form which he was ambiguous about.
" So when you say you and the professor have a different perspective, what you're actually saying is that you have a different view, a different outlook, a different attitude, a different mindset, a different viewpoint. In other words YOU DONT THINK THE SAME, YOU THINK THE OPPOSITE TO EACH OTHER. "
black is different from green. green is also different from black. are they opposite of each other? no.
1 is different from 2. are they different from each other? no.
not opposite. just different.
logic fail from you once again.
"So, go on then, start cutting and pasting parts of this post and adding "slippery slope" or some of your other useless and pointless categorisations to them. Have fun!"
once again, narrating the situation doesnt change anything. it only shows your insecurities.
- Nickname303
Wow, I'm impressed I must admit. I do believe you didn't use any of your usual stupid phrases there. Well done, but its a pity that its only because I had to point out that you were doing it and that was stupid and pointless. You say there's nothing wrong with wanting proof that something is true. In general I would agree to an extent. But you have suggested that everybody whos ever commented on the 6P glass cracking problem and Huawei's subsequent handling of the problem, could be lying. That is the talk of a paranoid person, thinking that EVERYBODY is lying. It's one thing wanting to know the truth in a given situation, its another thing altogether to have so much paranoia that you think it's a distinct possibility that everyone is lying about it. And just because you can think of a few reasons why they could be lying, it doesn't make it any more likely that they are, and certainly doesn't mean that they ALL are. Unrealistic and paranoid thinking is what I'm saying you're doing. Let me ask you a question. Which is more likely? That everybody is lying regarding the 6P problem, or that at least some of the people are telling the truth? I'm saying its massively more likely that at least some are telling the truth. So with the absence of any ability to prove whether everybody is telling the truth or not, I'm going to assume that at least some are telling the truth (because I'm not paranoid) therefore in my eyes the problem is real, not something that's been dreamed up and lied about for some reason. In the absence of absolute proof I'm using reasoning and logical assumption to come to a conclusion, I'm not making unrealistic statements like everybody could be lying about it. The likelihood that ALL of those people are lying is very slim, so I'm going to say there's truth in the comments, even if there are a few lies in with them too. Philosophically and statistically, of course the minute possibility exists that everybody has lied, but like I say, common sense says that the minute chance is not the thing to take notice of and believe is going to happen. There's a slight chance that I could win the lotto tomorrow. But guess what, I won't win it tomorrow. There's theoretically no way that I can say that with any confidence, because the possibility is there, so it COULD happen. But I'll be messaging you tomorrow telling you that I haven't won. You know that and I know that. And that's because by using common sense, logical assumptions and reasoning I can see that just because the possibility exists for me to win the lottery tomorrow, the chance of it actually being reality is so slight that I can 99.9% guarantee that it won't happen. In other words, its theoretically possible but I'd be silly to think I'm going to win tomorrow. I'll still be going to work on Thursday I guarantee it. It's the same as you thinking that the very slight chance that the many comments online regarding the Huawei subject are all lies, its silly because its so unlikely. If you can't see how unlikely it is that lots of random people around the world all suddenly decided to lie about the same thing at the same time for no apparent reason, then as far as I'm concerned youre paranoid and that paranoia is clouding your ability to see things realistically.
Regarding your comments saying that I've just said more unrelated stuff in my last post that doesn't help strengthen my points – I thought I'd made it clear by now that one of my main aims now is to show how silly you are, so my little stories are merely my sarcastic way of doing that and making fun of you. They're not supposed to be anything to do with the original subject. And when will you get my point that I won't listen to your views above those of a professor? I don't care that you try to justify what you say by saying "yeah but the professor proved a negative with a positive which isn't really proving a negative…blah blah blah". Stop your bleating. HE KNOWS MORE THAN YOU. HE'S A PROFESSOR OF THE SUBJECT, ARE YOU?! And that's not me bowing to authority, its me using my brain to trust somebody that wouldn't be in his position if he didn't know what he was talking about. If he says you can prove a negative then I'll take his word over yours. Again I'm just using logic here, believing someone who is professionally qualified and respected, over someone who's just a random guy who as far as I'm concerned doesn't talk much sense. I don't know either you or the professor, but call me stupid if you want, I'm going to side with the professor on this. And now for your insistence that you can somehow use the English language how you please, to mean what is convenient for you. You have different views to the professor. You obviously have some sort of problem with my use of the word opposite. But you can try to twist the language however you want, I would wager that most people reading this will be laughing at your attempts to split hairs about words, just so you can try to wriggle out of the fact that you're making yourself look stupid with your contradictions. Your pedanticism reeks of desperation to avoid your ignominy. And don't bother trying to criticise my logic any more, because like I say, I'm siding with the professor (for the logical reasons that I've already pointed out), and he says that YOUR logic is wrong
- Anon
"But you have suggested that everybody whos ever commented on the 6P glass cracking problem and Huawei's subsequent handling of the problem, could be lying. That is the talk of a paranoid person, thinking that EVERYBODY is lying."
not "is" lying, but rather, could be lying. the possibility is always there.
paranoia is a feeling. this is statistics and probability. do not mistake one for the other. do not use them interchangeably as you deem fit.
" I thought I'd made it clear by now that one of my main aims now is to show how silly you are,"
you merely just showed that you are unable to have a constructive and objective discussion since you have a conflict of interest.
i am.
once again, you have only singled out huawei time and time again instead of google 1st.
another Freudian slip right there.
"Again I'm just using logic here, believing someone who is professionally qualified and respected, over someone who's just a random guy who as far as I'm concerned doesn't talk much sense."
yeah that's why it's called a logical fallacy. it seems to make sense but it doesnt.
you can choose to believe whoever, nothing wrong with that but that's all it is. just to believe.
it doesnt mean it's true.
"Again I'm just using logic here, believing someone who is professionally qualified and respected, over someone who's just a random guy who as far as I'm concerned doesn't talk much sense."
nope. a different mindset is not the opposite of any other mindset. being different doesnt mean being the opposite. as i've said, you are thinking in binary fashion. false dilemma. the "if you are not with me, then you are against me" kinda failed logic.
- Nickname303
You're a troll. Nobody could possibly be as silly as you're portraying yourself to be! And by the way, seeing as you seem to be in love with statistics and live your life by them, you can digest this little statistic – more people have upvoted my comments in this conversation of ours. So statistically, more people that have read our comments agree with me rather than you. You're the minority and your beloved statistics show that. Anyway, just thought I'd point that information out to you, not that it will make any difference because if your previous record is anything to go by you will no doubt come back with some disjointed claptrap that makes you look stupid again. Oh, and I didn't win the lotto by the way. Now that's a surprise isnt it? Oh, no, wait, it isn't a surprise! Highly unlikely things really dont happen most of the time even though they are statistically remotely, unrealistically possible. Now there's a revelation. I hope that hasn't blown your mind. Keep reading those statistical textbooks while I actually live my life like a normal human being. Goodbye troll! (Or stupid person, whichever you are)
- Anon
appeal to majority. invalid points from you
- Nickname303
Oh dear, you seem to have gone back to just making little comments classifying what style of comment I've made rather than actually answering my post and giving a rational explanation. I knew it wouldn't last. Trolls eventually find it hard to justify the crap they say, so its no surprise really is it?
- Anon
you explanation is totally based on a fallacious logic and therefore rendered objectively invalid.
there is no need to respond to an invalid argument other than to expose it.
- Nickname303
There you go again with your claptrap mantras. You see this stuff as a religion don't you? You won't respond to my comments because your mantras forbid you to do so! Jeez hahah. Try living on the edge for once – even though your "religion" tells you that you shouldn't respond to an "invalid argument", do it – I dare you to go against philosophy gods. I love the way that you give me so much ammunition to show how warped your mind is!
And its interesting to see you suddenly ignoring statistics when they go against what you're saying.
- Anon
nope, i wouldnt dare to go against being educated.
- Nickname303
Hahah brainwashed fool
- Anon
being educated and logical is brainwashed?
- Nickname303
Logical? You're assuming that what you say is logical. Just because you think it is, it doesn't mean it actually is. I'm now using your own claptrap statements against you! Hahah
Oh and don't forget, I told you not to keep going on about logic because your logic is flawed according to many experts, so you can't treat it as a fact, and I'm believing experts rather than you
- Anon
kindly point out what logical fallacy i have made then.
"Oh and don't forget, I told you not to keep going on about logic because your logic is flawed according to many experts, so you can't treat it as a fact, and I'm believing experts rather than you"
appeal to authority.
- Nickname303
Youve constantly stated that you can't prove a negative. This is a fallacy and is something that is refuted by many eminent people. It doesn't matter how much you ignore or deny it, that's the situation.
Incidentally, could you please tell me how and where you learned about all of these things like logical fallacy, ad hominem, appealing to majority etc. that you keep talking about? Thanks
- Anon
wow. just wow. im not asking you to proof anything. im asking you to point out where is the logical fallacy i have made. that is more like FINDING a positive. gosh.
- Nickname303
So are you going to answer my question? Where and how did you learn about all of these things?
- Anon
university. but a simple google search will do as well if that didnt cross your mind.
- Nickname303
Right, OK.
So when I say that I believe what a univereity professor says, you say that I'm "appealing to authority". Yet everything you're quoting to me and insisting that youre right about has been told to you by a university professor! You're appealing to authority too!
- Anon
claims of appealing to authority does not apply to experts or a consensus formed by scientific methods.
i am an expert. so are other professors. we form a consensus by scientific methods.
but yes you are right. this consensus, while generally accepted widely for now, may still be entirely wrong in the future.
with the current consensus, backed by scientific methods, i am not appealing to authority.
scientists have no problem changing our views with new information.
as long as your are able to prove why the logical fallacies do not apply to you, i have no problem accepting them.
appealing to authority though, as you have done, is only believing a certain individual with the only reason being that the said individual is of authority and as in your case, together with a confirmation bias.
- Nickname303
I'm not listening to one individual there are many people with the same view
- Anon
"A ridiculous way of thinking! "
nope. just logical and rational.
- Anon
" If everybody is dropping their phone and then claiming the glass spontaneously broke, why did the Android Pit journalist say it happened to him? He would have no problems getting himself a replacement in his position. He didn't need to lie to get himself a new phone, he's got phones coming out of his ears."
lmao. look at you here desperately trying to proof a negative. as i have said before, as long as there is a possibility, you are wrong.
i can say that a huawei or google competitor paid those guys to do it. once you find out they didnt, i could say something else. you will have to prove all the infinite number of reasons possible are wrong for you to be correct.
until you are able to prove an infinite number of reasons for them to lie to be untrue, which is impossible, then you can claim for them to have no reason to lie(even a reason such as "cuz i can"), and then have proven for them to tell the truth. this is you trying prove a negative. it would be easier to prove a positive, such as getting a video of the glass spontaneously cracking.
- Nickname303
Hahha wow are you really saying that if there's even the smallest possibility that somebody is lying about something then you're going to deny that it's true? Seems like the world and life as we know it is all up in the air now then. There's a possibility that most things could be lied about so therefore nothing is true anymore, were surrounded by nothing but lies and conspiracies then. Don't tell me, the world isn't really globular? I've really got 3 eyes and my mirror and everybody that knows me has lied to me? It's not beyond the realms of possibility so maybe it's true? Lol
- Anon
yes. take a statistics class sometime.
A handful of people complaining on Reddit/XDA != a proportional majority of all Nexus owners! My Nexus is in pristine, unbent, unbroken condition, and I'm fairly certain there are far, far more people *not* making posts about how their phones are in perfect shape, versus those complaining about a defect.
- Nickname303
If you Google it there are many people talking about it. And the numbers really don't make much difference anyway. Whether it's thousands, hundreds, or 10 people, Huawei should treat them with decency and repair the phone or exchange it, not tell people to go away when their product is faulty. If it happened to your phone and they refused to replace it I suppose you'd be fine with that then?
- Anon
nobody deals straight with huawei for nexuses. most deal with google.
- Nickname303
And Google is telling people to go to either Huawei or their service provider. Google were asked to merely comment on the problem a few weeks back and they refused. They're as bad as Huawei
- Anon
well then that's google's problem. they should be the one handling it. they have been handling nexuses since the very beginning. what did huawei do to be bad? i didnt look for LG when my nexus5 had problems, nor should i. i didnt purchase my phone from LG, i got it from google.
- Nickname303
Yup, i agree Google are the ones to approach first. So when Google tells you to piss off (which they have been doing) who you gonna go to next? HUAWEI!!! And they tell you to piss off too. So yeah, they're both as bad as each other. Between them they can't give a customer with a defective device a simple repair or replacement. They're both ridiculously arrogant
- Anon
yeah that's true. only with the underlying assumption that the customer is indeed telling the truth though.
- Nickname303
So random people around the world have suddenly taken to blogs to lie about the same thing for no apparent reason?
- Anon
i dont know. burden of proof is on you since you claim that they are telling the truth.
- Nickname303
Erm, youve claimed that they may be lying so why isn't the burden of proof on you to prove they're lying? We could go on like this all night lol. It's a fact that these comments exist, so if we take them at face value, then there is a problem out there that exists, unless you have proof that they're lying, or a reason why theyre lying.
Like I say, why would random people around the world suddenly start lying about the same thing?
- Anon
because you dont prove a negative.
look up burden of proof on google. it doesnt work that way, at least if u believe in science.
- Nickname303
Quoting scientific stuff is all well and good, but at the end of the day you can't prove they're lying any more than I can prove they're telling the truth. So what makes your point more valid than mine? What are people going to gain from taking the time to go online and randomly lying about something like this?
- Anon
you tell me
- Anon
exactly man
- Andre Senge
You are probably not gonna find a bigger Huawei fan then myself, i constantly see people complain about EMUI and i see nothing wrong with it except well yes the Bloatware, which is annoying but most you can delete anyway. I have the Huawei Ascend P7 and can't wait for the P9 to come out, i have had bloatware on this phone but got rid of it all, dropped it so many times and guess what, no cracks at all and that's amazing. The smartphone company who disgust me the most is Samsung, same design after design after design. They never change it up, and if you ask me their TouchWiz is 'UGLY' its too colorful and I'm sure there's people that complain about their UI, EMUI in my opinion looks better and is darker which i like. Their phones are mostly plastic but they have changed that up with the S6 but still have the same boring looking design, and the S7 will look the same too which they have already mentioned.I cant wait till Huawei is #1 on the list and brings down Samsung, they are currently number 3 on the list behind rotten Apple so don't be surprised if they get to second place because Apple is currently doing bad in sales. What Huawei should do, so you guys stop complaining is not to get rid or the EMUI completly but to make a way to where you can go into settings and switch from 'Stock' or to stay with 'EMUI' now that would be pretty cool because i do also like stock but it would also get boring after awhile from lack of customizing. I'm really looking everyday on google on when the Huawei P9 comes out, i will buy that phone in a heartbeat, f*#k Samsung! i do phone repair for a living and im tired of having people call me and the phone they want repaired is you guessed it, a SAMSUNG! MAKE CHANGES PEOPLE! there's better phones out there, you have Huawei, LG aint bad, you got Moto,Nokia,Gionee,One plus and so on. What's the fastest Android phone right now, that would be Huawei Mate 8 and dont forget iPhone 6S which is prob the fastest overall but in some catagories.
- jasonlowr
Lol. I'm sorry, but I still prefer samsung over anything for android. If I want an iPhone, I'll get an iPhone instead of an iPhone clone aka huawei and xiaomi
- Andre Senge
Huawei ain't an iPhone clone idiot. That title goes to Xiaomi, its the China iPhone, but i guess you will never move on until you try something different so stick with boring Samsung.
- Andrew
How is Huawei an iPhone clone, they're not even close. The title of China's iPhone goes to Meizu, a lot more so than Xiaomi.
I find the ugly icon backgrounds complaint hilarious. This is the problem with every single icon pack. I always say this and people are like 'no, no, no, MY icon pack doesn't do this.' And it always does.
- Vineeth S
That was one hell of an article. Really enjoyed reading it. The EMUI can be both intrusive and annoying and can make the user experience a tad horrid on an otherwise droolworthy device.
- Saurav Shah
It is one of the Chinese manufacturers, and since the UI such as MIUI are popular there, it is trying to be competition to those.
But I feel other than the Chinese markets, Huawei should provide users with a option where they are allowed to choose between Stock and EMUI platforms, since not much development have been carried out for Kirin processors.
The apps such as themes need to be developed more, and more users should be allowed to design themes, which would be a solution to those boring icons.
- Scott Lowe
Isn't there a way to make all Android skins uninstallable? Just give people the choice whether they want that stuff or not. I will never get a Samsung, LG, or any other OEM that bloats up their phones with meaningless duplications of stuff that's already there in stock Android. I just can't understand why these companies can't make GPe-like versions of their phones alongside the bloated ones. I think companies like Samsung would sell more because their hardware would then shine, without that crap Touchwiz getting in the way. My Nexus 4 is a perfect example. Great build from LG, with clean software. Until then, it's Nexus or Motorola for me.
- jasonlowr
For you…
- peerpressure
As someone who hates stock Google, I want the choices we already have. If you like it, like you said, you have Nexus or Motorola. For all the other people who don't want the same thing as you, we have choices. Some of the best software I used was on a LG. Yes, it was skinned, but it added a bunch of features that I really enjoyed.
Playing around with my wife's Moto X just leaves me frustrated at all the things it doesn't do. Yeah, you get timely updates (kind of. I think that Moto X is just now getting Lollipop), but you have to download so many apps to tweak it enough to make it your own.
- lawsofeffect
Sorry Nexus fan boys – love my Huawei and its emotion UI – I've found Huawei to make seriously well designed and well thought out phones -.come on, theres 3 days battery life on most Huawei phones – and your going to complain that you don't have the latest OS – get a Nexus – somehow you've forgotten to mention all the Nexus's build and software problems – yes Samsung has improved their build quality – but I'll never go back to a phone I have to charge twice daily – I'll admit that I had trouble with the Huawei interface at first, but I discovered overtime that Huawei's stock software already did what I'd grown used to doing another way. I gradually let go of my comfort apps and gave into Huawei's well thought out UI. I've recently picked up 2 LG G4's and although a terrific camera and a decent phone, mine sits idle, still preferring to carry my Huawei MediaPad X1 with me as my go to device. It may not be the best specs, the best screen or the most ram, but it functions smoothly and beautfully every day. I was at a dinner party the other night where chargers for electronics were thoughtfully made available to all guests, I declined, because I knew even at 17% charge, I'd most likely be good til Sunday night. Every other guest had to take advantage of charging there device. Don't think theres a phone in NA that presently catches my fancy, not that I won't try a few – I am an Android fan. I'm eagerly awaiting the wave of new Android laptops promised this year. Currently messing with the Jide Remix. Isn't that what Androids about, open source inviting developers to offer new flavors?
nice troll
- Mark
He's likely not trolling, I have a Huawei P1, have had it since mid 2012 so at least 3 and a half years and 3 day battery life is actually very possible, I used to go to bed with 100% battery and wake up with 100% every day. 20-25% was enough to last an average day with texting, calling and some web browsing in between. Since this winter (2016) something happened with the battery and it doesn't last as long as before but I'm still getting at least one and a half day useage on a single charge. The other thing I love is after three and a half years it's still smooth, opening applications are instantaneous and it still works like new, I've had some small problems like the keys at the bottom not lighting up and/or not working and random restarts but they went away on their own. The only complaint is storage, it only came with 4 gigs of storage and there is a micro sd slot but space is getting filled just installing non-movable apps on the internal storage.
- lawsofeffect
thanks for the update Mark – was wondering how long I had before the battery life would begin to fade
- MesTaRas
People usually dismiss non stock roms without even trying it
- Shanil Sonny
I do agree with everything mentioned above, however there was one thing that wasn't mentioned that I do like to have on other Android's as a stock option, and that is the ability to display the current network speed. (I use a P8max) Very useful if you have troublesome WiFi at home.
- nebulaoperator
That's why I was holding back from buying any Huawei device.
- Chesz Heaven-
I actually prefer the NO APP DRAWER meaning I don't like Stock Android (it's my choice, ok?!). By that, it hinders me from buying Galaxy S6 or LG V10 although I really like those phones. I find app drawer as ONLY for my tablet and not for my phone. I like customization and I easily get bored on wallpapers,themes etc but I don't like 3rd party apps (lag)for that matter. That's the reason why I like Huawei. And I better prefer Huawei over Lenovo UI and Xiaomi UI. And I disagree with the author saying EMUI isn't easy, in fact it's child friendly unlike those phones with physical buttons that I hate navigating around. But I agree with you about the Multi tasking window, Force Touch and voice control for Huawei, those things badly needed improvements. I'm keeping an eye for the upcoming Nokia smartphones which might change my decision from buying yet again another Huawei for an upgrade.
- Ronald Olimpo
i agree with you. its clean and easy to use. I dont understand why they dont like Emui and prefer stock ? which quite boring. Thats why more launchers are availble at playstore coz they know much people wanted their phones look awesome and unique and thats what huawei is doing.
- MesTaRas
For me the problem with Chinese roms is the need to put background on apps.. It works in iOs because Apps are forced to be released like that, the same thing doesnt happen with android and it all looks inconsistent.. That's the only reason I can't use EMUI or MIUI but can use Color OS or Flyme OS!
- Chesz Heaven-
It's about time that Google should overhaul the entire app drawer. It's so universal that I can't differentiate if I'm holding a tablet or smartphone (inserts sarcasm).??.. Then that might give me liking for stock android. Until then S6, 6P or V10 are just phones I could never have because of App Drawer.
- Josh Gilman
No problems using my phone – 'bloat'? I thought that was unnecessary pre-loaded 3rd party apps or mobile company apps? There is no bloat on my Mate 7. Best phone I've had in a long time.
- Ronald Olimpo
1 thing I love about huawei is Its EMui Ive been using huawei smartphones for almost 3years and I can say its awesome. Both cmera and battery are fantastic. Im using EMui 3.1 running 5.1.1 EMUId phone and its fluid. Bout the icons its one of the. goal of EMUI to change the look of phone instantly and there are hundreds of emui themes to chose from. from childish, classic and more elegant themes
- ash
I have almost one month one HuaweGB) device and I am pretty happy with a
software and even like EMUI. I can enjoy in Apps like Line and WeChat even more,
- charlie Jason
Don't worry, disappointing sales will teach them the hard way. Heck, it may even force them to make another awesome Nexus phone to remind people that they are still good at hardware design.
- jasonlowr
I wish huawai will experience not disappointing sales, but disastrous sales. :)
- charlie Jason
And then hopefully they will start building phones with stock android interface. Motorola and Oneplus have shown that you can add extra software features without replacing the stock interface with an ugly iOS clone.
- nznotion
All their phones have great hardware design, no reminder needed there. Software is subjective but the good thing is it can be easily tweaked. A sales slump is likely not happening anytime soon given they are the fastest growing company. I don't mind EMUI at all, EMUI MIUI TouchWiz etc. they're all the same to me anyway, I prefer EMUI and TouchWiz over stock just for the extra features.
- s2weden2000
- wlados22
first world problems for the win :-))
- lefty44
Most android phone manufacturers should fix their software.
- Karly Johnston
They are the worst at updates, AM2 stuck on JB.
- ac
I agree, EMUI is awful, but Nova Launcher cures most of my complaints about the software, similar to how it cured kost of my Touchwiz complaints and Motorola's old UI before being bought by google.
- Bryant Park
somebody forgot to capitalize "UI"
"As for positives regarding the ui?"
I want to join AA so bad XD
- Bryant Park
chinese UI = iOS clone
- doloresanto
This is what you get each time when the manufacturer is not a software company. Hello, Samsung! Bitches.
- lawsofeffect
"Google wants to make its Nexus phones more like iPhones",
search it :-) As long as Google doesn't "lock" their system down (remains innovative, doesn't go the way of Apple or Microsoft). What I resent is purchasing a phone that the Manufacturer has now locked down, doesn't actually consider to be my property, making me aware, after the point of sale, that I'm not allowed to personalize, what is supposed to be a "free", "open source" operating system (under the guise of protecting me from voiding my warranty?). Should manufacturers be required to disclose, when they are not, will not be cooperating in the rooting of a device, or in allowing a bootloader to be unlocked. *rooting, personalizing your phone, now becoming much more available to the masses through the many, simple, one click rooting systems.
- Kjell Fredriksen
Just skip the EMUI, and get rid of chinese apps we can not understand. I stop bying Samsung because missing software updates. It's not hardware quality, software is equal important
- Aayush Ganesh
Huawei need to learn a lot from Oneplus. Oneplus software is brilliant, no bloat other than swiftkey and an FM radio. A shelf for frequent apps and contacts. Huawei should look ask oneplus for permission to use their skin on its more powerful devices. Not the weaker ones because Oxygen is optimised for the Oneplus 2, one of the most powerful phones you can buy. But they should at least look at it