text:
Wave bye bye to eBay
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> Wave bye bye to eBay
July 30, 2007, 04:32 PM
No more anything gun-related on eBay... :fire:
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July 30, 2007, 04:33 PM
In the words of John Big Bootay:
So waaat, big deeel
July 30, 2007, 04:42 PM
Yeah, honestly, I dont care, they've been a big enough pain in the rump that I havent used their service in years.
I just looked at the big prohibited list. They're REALLY shooting themselves in the foot here.
July 30, 2007, 04:49 PM
After learning that some items purchased on eBay may have been used in the tragedy at Virginia Tech
Ok...so when will we hear this...
After learning that some items purchased on eBay may have been used by Islamic Terrorists
Bah....Ebay should censor itself to death. "snipping" programs and cheating have made on-line auctions worthless.
July 30, 2007, 04:49 PM
Funny, just before I opened this thread, I'd been looking through eBay at reloading stuff. I don't need any (still excited about my Lee Classic Cast!), but like all things eBay it's fun sometimes just to watch what comes up; if someone was selling dies in a set I'd like to use for a ludicrously low price, I'd be tempted.
I was a bit peeved to discover that I saw very few (lead) pellet guns, too; a few, Yes, but few enough that I suspect they snuck in against policy. (Am I wrong?) Jillions of airsoft guns, though. Nothing against airsoft (Hey, I bought a few this year, and it was fun at my friend's bachelor party ;)), but they're not much of an interest of mine.
Besides being asinine, he policy of exclusion is badly worded; if brass casings are verboten (good word for it), what about things like reloading dies and presses?
I guess I'll start satisfying my curiosity now on sites like gunbroker -- giving up some of the really good and polished things about eBay (at least for those items).
July 30, 2007, 04:50 PM
I have used their service for barrels, choke tubes, magazines, and the like. It is the easiest way online to purchase these items.
This will now move elsewhere. And I will try not to use their service in general due to this stance.
Thanks for the link.
July 30, 2007, 04:51 PM
wow...gun related stuff seems to be a big ebay market...i'll admit i'm a little surprised....i thought the dollars would be given highest priority.
July 30, 2007, 04:52 PM
Well, I'll send them an email, and tell them to cancel my account. I understood some of their policies, although I didn't agree with them, but cases? You are really going to ban the sales of brass cases? Wow.
By the way, if any of you who really aren't using the service already, but still have accounts active, were to write to them and specifically ask them to send you, no, mail you, proof that your account has been deleted, I bet it would make them stand up and take some notice.
Maybe. If we can get enough people upset.
Bazooka Joe71
July 30, 2007, 04:56 PM
July 2007
***Message from Matt Halprin – New Listing Restrictions on Gun Parts***
July 30, 2007 | 10:00AM PST/PT
Matt Halprin
Hello everyone…In mid-August, we will be updating our Firearms, Weapons and Knives Policy to place more restrictions around gun-related items. Once these changes take effect, we will prohibit listings of any firearm part that is required for the firing of a gun. This includes items like bullet tips, brass casings and shells, barrels, slides, cylinders, magazines, firing pins, trigger assemblies, etc. Please read the Firearms, Weapons and Knives Policy for more details on our current policy.
As you may know, eBay does not allow the listing of any items which are regulated by individual states or the federal government; however, there are still a large number of firearm-related parts that are legal and are widely available in retail stores. These items have also historically been allowed on eBay.
After learning that some items purchased on eBay may have been used in the tragedy at Virginia Tech in April 2007, we felt that revisiting our policies was not only necessary, but the right thing to do. After much consideration, the Trust & Safety policy team – along with our executive leaders at eBay Inc. – have made the decision to further restrict more of these items than federal and state regulations require.
This new update continues to encourage safety among our community members and brings our policies in the U.S. and Canada in closer alignment with our existing policies in other markets around the globe.
Matt Halprin
Vice President, Trust & Safety
You can buy knives and swords GALORE, but no brass????
Clearly V-tech would never have happened if ebay wasn't around.:rolleyes:
July 30, 2007, 05:06 PM
Is there any good general auction site alternative for eBay?
July 30, 2007, 05:07 PM
Good. It has been my experience that parts prices had actually gone up because of eBay exposure. Some parts that I once could buy rather inexpensively were jacked-up due to inexperienced bidders overbidding for items. Now that actual gun parts will no longer be allowed for sale, I will be able to buy directly from the manufacturer/distributors without paying inflated prices.
Car Knocker
July 30, 2007, 05:15 PM
Duplicate: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=292467
July 30, 2007, 05:16 PM
Fleabay huh...
July 30, 2007, 05:19 PM
Thats so rediculous, however looks like they never actually did allow it, now they are enforcing it.
Lets compare the fact that maybe something was bought on ebay that took part in the virginia tech shooting and other items. I know for a fact that people who have bought world of warcraft items have been involved with death. There are people so addicted to that game, buying **** for thier characters that they end up neglecting their kids, or killing a friend becuase he stole a virtual sword from him... We should ban the sale of wow stuff too then.
lol ahhh whatever, they can't regulate everything, there are still going to be some listings and there are other online places to buy firearm parts.
July 30, 2007, 05:25 PM
Is there any good general auction site alternative for eBay?
I don't know. I've used bidville.com for silver coins a while back, but I don't know what they allow with guns/etc.
Quintin Likely
July 30, 2007, 05:26 PM
Their site, their rules. While I don't like it, that's their choice.
July 30, 2007, 05:28 PM
It may be that they are simply saying they will be enforcing the policy, and then not worrying too much about what gets sold.
It won't be the first time a company had an official policy to limit their liability, knowing full well that the policy won't actually be implemented.
Doesn't Colt still stamp ARs with flash suppressors, bayo lugs, and collapsible stocks as LEO?
July 30, 2007, 05:29 PM
Is there any good general auction site alternative for eBay?
I don't think any site can even come close to having the things eBay does. My purchases on there are things that usually cannot be found anywhere else.
July 30, 2007, 05:39 PM
Well looks like I'll be spending more time on THR's listings along with some other gun boards. This is definetly a poor financial decision by ebay. They sell porn why can't they sell gun stuff.
Bazooka Joe71
July 30, 2007, 05:42 PM
Doesn't Colt still stamp ARs with flash suppressors, bayo lugs, and collapsible stocks as LEO?
I know my eotech 512 does.
July 30, 2007, 05:49 PM
i don't know how anyone even uses ebay. i've never found it user friendly. there's so many passwords, rules, restrictions, costs, etc. that it's just too much of a pita to waste time watching the crap. if i want something used there are much better places to go.
July 30, 2007, 05:53 PM
This includes items like bullet tips, brass casings and shells, barrels, slides, cylinders, magazines, firing pins, trigger assemblies, etc. Please read the Firearms, Weapons and Knives Policy for more details on our current policy.
Blast! And I was just about to go shopping for "bullet tips!" :D
(Just shows to go you how ignorant they are about firearms. Oh, well. Garbage Into their fluffy little city-bred heads, Garbage Out.)
July 30, 2007, 05:57 PM
I don't think I've ever bought anything gun related on eBay. Everything I've bought has been hard to find car parts (my car is 20 years old).
This should make GunBroker.com happy. More listings for them.
Ohio Rifleman
July 30, 2007, 05:58 PM
Their site, their rules. While I don't like it, that's their choice.
And it's our choice to not give them any money if we dislike their policy.
If you want gun stuff, just go to gunbroker or auctionarms or something.
July 30, 2007, 06:05 PM
Their site, their rules.
their loss...
Well, now I'm officially moving to gunbroker
neener neener, ebay :p
Bazooka Joe71
July 30, 2007, 06:08 PM
Blast! And I was just about to go shopping for "bullet tips!"
Is that for hollow points you want to convert back to ball ammo.....
So they are no longer amour peircing!!!!:neener:
July 30, 2007, 06:09 PM
bullet tips
How much you want to bet that nobody over at E-Bay can define "bullet tips"?
I wonder if the VA Tech shooter purchased his hammer on E-Bay. Does that mean that they will no longer allow hand tools to be listed there?
Fake Name
July 30, 2007, 06:09 PM
I'm all stocked up on bullet tips.
I used to buy/sell quite a bit on Flea Bay.
Now I won't go on the site ever again.
Leif Runenritzer
July 30, 2007, 06:20 PM
They used to block me from any WW2 item because something made them think i was in Germany. Because of their stupid PCness, i stopped using ebay and Half.com but for rarities. This new policy just seals it.
July 30, 2007, 06:24 PM
I got my 22" barrel for my Win1300 from Ebay.
But just like that I will never make another sale or purchase on ebay. They can take PCness and stick it where the sun don't shine.
July 30, 2007, 06:26 PM
They are not to allow bullet tips. Does that mean I still can get my bullet bases or centers through them.
Bazooka Joe71
July 30, 2007, 06:29 PM
How did I have a DP 20 min apart?
July 30, 2007, 06:34 PM
Let Gunbroker get all their business, works for me.
July 30, 2007, 06:48 PM
I just sent eBay a message through their suggestions link. It's pretty lengthy, so I hope somebody takes the time to read it.In regards to the new eBay policies addressing restrictions on firearm related parts being sold on eBay, I feel I must say some things.
To prohibit the selling of items considered dangerous because of the choices of a few persons with criminal intent only punishes the multitudes of honest buyers and sellers.
I have noticed you are not prohibiting sales of vehicles or their parts, and there have been more vehicles used in criminal acts and accidents than any firearms. There are swimming pools listed for sale, how many people have died in swimming pools? According to the Centers for Disease Control; "In 2004, there were 3,308 unintentional fatal drownings in the United States." You are also selling hand tools of numerous types, many of these types of items have been used in assaults. How can you know how many of these items have passed the eBay system? There is no way to know.
In singling out firearms, you are showing prejudice toward legal firearm owners, of which there are over 80 million in the United States. 80 million people is a HUGE customer base. I sincerely doubt that there are over 80 million illegal firearm owners in the U.S.
I have heard of several people wishing to cancel their eBay accounts because of this decision, and I must say that I am one of the people seriously considering that option myself.
I ask that you re-evaluate the decision. I believe that it goes against something eBay has stated in the eBay Community page;
We believe people are basically good.
We believe everyone has something to contribute.
We believe that an honest, open environment can bring out the best in people.
We recognize and respect everyone as a unique individual.
We encourage you to treat others the way you want to be treated.
There are several items listed above that contradict the new policy, and also contradicted eBay's previous policies concerning firearms. You can pick them out.
It is a sad fact that there are bad people among us, but punishing the many for the actions of a few is a travesty.
Thank you for your attention,
skinnyguy(real name)
July 30, 2007, 06:53 PM
What email address did you send it to? I think I'll cancel my ebay registration, too......
July 30, 2007, 07:04 PM
Wonder what type of shoes he wore... Will they not allow those to be sold on e-bay too? Amazes me everytime I see someone thinking that the pencil is responsible for typos.
July 30, 2007, 07:05 PM
I look on E-Bay for Civil War projectiles and Shells and by this policy those are no longer allowed either.
Quintin Likely
July 30, 2007, 07:16 PM
their loss...
EBay is a world wide operation...I don't think Meg Whitman's gonna lose too much sleep at night knowing a handful of shooters aren't gonna do business with them anymore.
July 30, 2007, 07:21 PM
Another vote for Gunbroker
July 30, 2007, 07:41 PM
Good goin', skinnyguy!
Well put !
July 30, 2007, 08:15 PM
For those of you who think this is just 'enforcing' their policy, sorry... no.
eBay back in the day would allow sales of firearms, it was (and IS) a venue where the responsibility falls on the buyer and seller for any liability. They changed and wouldn't allow complete guns, receivers, or anything that fires or could fire a projectile (except airsoft... ?!!?)
Now they are wiping out the entire section, "...of any firearm part that is required for the firing of a gun." So that means about anything, stocks, pins, springs, anything.
It is just absolute 100% proof they are a business that you should not patronize if you value your RTKBA.
As for gunbroker or the other sites? Can't use paypal which kills a large percent of business, and gunbroker gets about 5% of eBay's daily traffic which keeps many people away from selling on there. Auctionarms? Even worse... Gunsamerica? Just classified ads... Blue Broker, to new and small, Gunmonster, same....
Hopefully boards like this, and EE on ar15 will get the benefit of this. It's just another win for the gun-grabbers...
...Although this hopefully will backfire on eBay. If enough uproar happens, maybe the Gov't will finally realize how much they are losing in unpaid taxes from folks selling on eBay and go with their plan to make everyone who wants to sell on eBay register their SSN... then we'll see where eBay's stock goes...
Standing Wolf
July 30, 2007, 08:19 PM
I don't do business with anti-Second Amendment bigots.
July 30, 2007, 08:26 PM
I closed my ebay account tonight....I will also check that my accounts hold no ebay stock!
sorry, dont deal with the absurd...
EBAY - where you can buy a chainsaw, but not an empty brass case for reloading.
good riddance.
and for that "what does ebay care if a handful of gun people dont shop there".....you bet your ass they may care, someday. Customers rule, you dont ever want to lose even one.
July 30, 2007, 08:28 PM
eBay knows nothing about the coin market either, but claims they do not allow a long list of things to be sold including counterfeit coins. but they almost never enforce the policy. the usual response to people pointing out violations of their policy on coin sales is that they do not know enough about coins to tell that a blatant fake is indeed fake.
paypal has never allowed paypal to be used to buy bullets or cases, but they have not been enforcing it until a few months ago.
eBay is about one thing. that is making money. they care nothing whatsoever about anything else. this policy change is going to negatively affect their bottom line, but not by all that much. and the idiots that came up with the policy can claim they are doing "something" about whatever they think the problem is they are doing "something" about.
i find it odd that they will allow the most disgusting pornagraphy to be sold, but parts for common firearms that are not restricted in any state of the union cannot be sold.
July 30, 2007, 08:30 PM
Looks like a thread is already underway on the EBay forums, and it looks mostly pro-gun in terms of response:
July 30, 2007, 08:49 PM
Sad thing is, and something not many people realize, there are a LOT of people who no longer run a brick & mortar local store selling firearm parts/reloading/holsters/etc... and this news means they need to rewrite their entire business plan in 2 weeks or so. This will impact small business-folk in the firearms world. I know of one local man who's 9-5 job is selling accessories on eBay and this news could mean his business will collapse (if they ban firearms items, who will go there to buy say one holster?).
Very sad. Guess I'll start selling one 8mm Mauser spent round every day after the ban kicks in.
July 30, 2007, 08:57 PM
the Trust & Safety policy team
That would make a dandy cabinet level position, or at least subordinate to Homeland Security. (Sheesh, that name still makes me sick. Fatherland, Motherland, Homeland, SSDD).
July 30, 2007, 09:44 PM
Great now all the scammers will move to firearm forums.
What's sad is the number of people using eBay's PAYPAL right here on this site and others. They will ban accounts for selling/buying firearm related parts. Why are we giving them money??!?!? It's really annoying the number of people that expect you to take paypal here.
July 30, 2007, 09:47 PM
So now they've gone from slightly worthless to completely worthless. Fine, I'll spend my money elsewhere.
July 30, 2007, 09:54 PM
If we could manage to get a couple thousand account cancellations on the day the new rules take effect it might at least lift a couple eyebrows.
July 30, 2007, 09:55 PM
At least half of my purchases on ebay have been firearm related. This is what happens when you get fat and lazy. Guess Auction Arms and GunBroker will be getting a lot more listings.
July 30, 2007, 10:09 PM
I have had around a dozen firearms related purchases thru ebay and am cancelling my account with them. I also have never used Paypal and do not intend to start.
July 30, 2007, 10:11 PM
Man I have bought and sold a lot of gun parts on eBay and I still do. Those $#@!@$^&\ idiots! I hope this decision comes back to bite eBay's fat butt big time.
Ohen Cepel
July 30, 2007, 10:18 PM
That's it for me also. I tried to look past some of the foolishness in the past but I've had my fill of it now.
Ohen Cepel
July 30, 2007, 10:22 PM
Does anyone have an email address for them that we can write to complain about this policy? Or a phone number?
I looked around and didn't find one.
They should know why they're losing money. Also, I need to check my stocks and dump anything I own of them.
July 30, 2007, 10:26 PM
I can honestly and happily say I have never utilized either Ebay or PayPal.
Will miss neither.
July 30, 2007, 10:34 PM
Too bad just got a Jap type 38 floorplate last night. Need the follower and spring which closes tommorrow.
Guess i wouldn not be able to buy these thing next months.
How stupid.
Hope every gun parts seller moves to auction arms or gunbroker.
Ebay usually has hard to find parts, that other sites don't have.
July 30, 2007, 10:41 PM
Just canceled my ebay account, I just do not understand why a company would cut their own business throat. They lost a lot of my business.
Just got this from Ebay, as if they really cared.
As you requested, we have begun the process to close your account.
We value your membership in the eBay community, and we wish we could convince you to stay. A customer support representative may contact you to see if there?s anything we can do to address your concerns.
Your account is now blocked from bidding or listing on eBay. However, you can still access your account information to determine your final bill, if applicable.
If you have had recent listing or bidding activity, we require a waiting period of 180 days. By allowing 180 days to pass we are helping to ensure that all of your transactions have been completed. Once the 180 days waiting period is over, we will automatically close your account.
At that time you will receive a final account closure notice from eBay. Please note that if you have an unpaid balance on your account, eBay will continue to use your contact information for collection efforts until your balance is fully paid.
Once your account has been permanently closed, your contact information, transaction history and feedback profile will be concealed and no longer available on the site.
If you do not wish to permanently close your account, please contact us immediately.
We hope that you have enjoyed your time with eBay.
eBay Customer Support
July 30, 2007, 10:48 PM
Screw E-Bay. I used to use it a lot. Now it's so full of fraud and scams that I never use it anymore. Just put something up for sale out there and see what happens. You will be contacted by half a dozen scam artists.
I hope they go under. They are useless in my book.
July 30, 2007, 11:10 PM
Who cares, gunbroker.com
July 31, 2007, 12:33 AM
ebay has been going downhill for a long time. it caters more to teenagers who want to buy pot pipes and people who want sex toys than anything else.
i havent purchased anything there in years and probably will never do so again.
July 31, 2007, 01:23 AM
In hindsight it's somewhat obvious. There are rumors going around about paypal accounts being locked out in the past few weeks do to "selling weapon related items" (i'm paraprasing). As most of us know, paypal is owned by ebay.
July 31, 2007, 01:47 AM
wow...gun related stuff seems to be a big ebay market...i'll admit i'm a little surprised....i thought the dollars would be given highest priority.
Firearms related sales are a mere drop in the bucket to eBay.
There are plenty of folks out there selling Beenie Babies and commerative Elvis plates that will take up the slack :rolleyes:
July 31, 2007, 06:57 AM
I understand everyone's feelings and the impulse to say to hell with eBay and just forget about them, but I believe our goal should not be to just ignore eBay as another 'anti' company, but to get eBay to reverse their decision. I know a lot of peole here won't agree with me, or will say it is a waste of time to try, but I think given its influence (like it or not) on society, eBay is exactly the type of private mainstream company whose turnaround from the ignorance of anti-gun hoplophobia to the voice of reason is something that is worth fighting for. I have a four step plan I would like to propose.
FIRST STEP - As many people as possible send eBay a message making the following points:
A.) Why eBay's decision is logically wrong.
B.) That eBay's reason for making the decision is based on an illogical premise.
C.) The steps you intend to take in response to eBay's decision.
D.) The long term negative fiscal consequences of this decision for eBay.
E.) Propose a solution that will address eBay's concerns while pointing out the positive fiscal consequence of reversing their decision.
(more on the solution mentioned in part "E" later)
Everyone will of course gave their own ideas, these here are just my own thoughts on these points, which I will be including in my own message to eBay once I finish cleaning up the writing.
A.) Why eBay's decision is logically wrong:
I will point out to eBay that while trying to head off public lawsuits by changing business practices is not an unreasonable theory for any company to follow, in this case it makes no sense at all since they are limiting themselves (and their profits) from taking part in something that is perfectly legal. Also, that they do not apply this same logic to other auction item categories they could just as likely be sued over, like electronics and home appliances (buyer get toaster off eBay, electrocutes themselves, sues eBay), parts for cars or motor cycles (buyer got brake pads off eBay, has a wreck, sues e-Bay), alcohol (underage buyer gets collectible vodka bottle with vodka still inside because seller didn't bother to check their age or local alcohol sale regulations, underaged buyer gets buzzed, their parents sue e-Bay). Finally, that eBay actually ends up opening themselves up to lawsuits and a greater chance of losing lawsuits, because plaintiffs can claim in their "toaster-brake pad-collectible vodka bottle" lawsuit, that eBay knew beforehand that certain items shouldn'be be available for auction, as proven by eBay's earlier implementd policy of prohibiting the sale of firearms related items.
B.) That eBay's logic for making their decision is based on an incorrect premise:
I will tell eBay that I understand their decision was based on the idea, that whatever money they make from handling firearms related item auctions, won't be as much as they estimate they might have to spend in legal fees if someone decides to sue them for whatever reason related to said auctions, and so their overall profit margins will be reduced, but that this is a faulty premise. That instead their overall longterm profits will be lower because of the decision to no longer allow firearms related item auctions, because of all the business they will lose from gun-owers who also use eBay for non-firearm item related auctions and purchases, and who will either stop using eBay altogether for non-firearms related auctions and sales, or who will at least greatly reduce their use of eBay for such auctions and instead turn to eBay's competitors whenever possible.
C.) The steps you intend to take in response to eBay's decision:
I will tell eBay that first and foremost I will spread the word on their decision to gunowners through all available venues (internet forums, magazines, newspaper editorials, and of course gun rights groups like the NRA, GOA, JPFO, etc.), and that the message will be of course be to boycott eBay altogether, to turn to other sites if they want to buy or sell something through internet auction, and to continue these actions until eBay reverses its decision.
D.) The long term negative fiscal consequences of eBay's 'no firearms item auctions' decision to eBay:
I will remind eBay that their are tens of millions of gun owners in this country, and that it is safe to say that a substantial percentage likely have accounts with eBay, and they likely use eBay for both firearm and non-firearm related auctions and purchases. And while the initial dropoff of the loss of this gun owner business may not be high, these losses will continue to increase month by month and year by year as more and more leave eBay on moral grounds because of the 'no gun item auctions' policy, and so these gun owners will at the very least greatly reduce the business they do with eBay for non-firearms item auctions, or cease business with eBay altogether by turning to competitors. Furthermore, that this trend of increasing losses will only get worse, as eBay's competitors grow in size from the gun owners who come over to them for both firearm item and non-firearm item auctions, taking more and more non-firearm related auctions from of eBay. Also, the trend will be long term and will not reverse itself as a result of gun owners losing interest in keeping up the boycott, because unlike other demographic segments, gunowners have a long memory and patience, and will reliably avoid using eBay for as long as it takes for eBay to reverse their decision. I will point out as an example the successful decade long fight gun owners waged against the so called assault weapons ban of 1994-2004.
The main point here is to make clear that the total business eBay will lose in the coming months and years from gun owners no longer participating in non-firearms related auctions, will far outstrip any savings they might have thought they would gain on the few lawsuits they might have possibly avoided.
E.) Propose a solution that will address eBay's concerns while pointing out the positive fiscal consequence of reversing their decision:
In recognition of the fact that eBay, like any business, does have a legitimate right to minimize its perceived exposure to lawsuits, I will propose to eBay a solution that companies in virtually every business field all over the world have employed for decades. Create an independent spinoff company based in a friendlier state (like Florida rather than California) to handle the business that the parent company, for whatever reason, no longer wishes to deal directly with. This spinoff, for now we'll just call it 'eBay2', can be founded by legal agreement with parent eBay to only handle auctions eBay decides to pass on, and could handle not only firearms items, but complete firearms (like eBay used to do so long ago), and any other item auctions (like say car brake pads, collectible vodka bottles that still have vodka in them, toasters, etc.) that parent eBay decides to pass on due to perceived liability reasons.
Since gun owners would have an eBay2 for firearms related auctions, they will see no reason not to stay with eBay for their non-firearms related item auctions. So instead of losing all the non-firearm item auction business from gun owners, eBay will keep it, while independent eBay2 will be responsible for and handle whatever risk eBay seems to think comes with internet firearms auctions.
This "FIRST STEP" message can of course be sent by e-mail, but I think also mailing an old-fashioned paper letter to eBay would be good too.
SECOND STEP - Spread the word. Post on every internet forum you can, and of course call, e-mail, or mail every gun rights group you can, even if you are not a member, let them know. The NRA, GOA, and other gun rights groups through their member e-mail and mail lists can get the word out to the more casual gun owners who rarely check internet forums. And those gun magazines we love to complain about so much as being shills for the gun companies, contact them too. A single letter to the editor in Guns & Ammo or Shooting Times will spread the word to more gun owners faster, even if it doesn't get published till next month, than internet postings.
THIRD STEP - We have to run this boycott so its force is maximized, not implemented piecemeal, so eBay feels it as much as possible. Obviously how to go about doing this is something that all interested members of this board (and all the interested members of all the other gun boards, and hopefully the whole gun owning community in general) will want to iron out in the following days. But to get the discussion going on how best to proceed with the boycott, I would like to start by saying that I am not entirely sure a general 'effective immediately' boycott would be as god as a boycott that is scheduled to start on a specific date.
eBay just posted their 'no more gun item auctions' announcement yesterday, and it will take time for word of it to spread nationwide to the greater (i.e. casual) gun owning populace. Rather than having a trickle of people e-mailing eBay over the coming weeks and months, having a bunch of people e-mail eBay starting on the same day, in say 6 weeks from now, is I think more likely to cause the eBay honchos to sit up and notice. I am guestimating starting the official boycott in 6 weeks, because I figure it will take at least a month before word of eBay's decision really becomes common knowledge among the majority of gun owners (particularly among casual gun owners) nationwide. Also, the boycott start date should be a long enough period after the knowledge becomes common (say 2 weeks later), to make sure everyone can get organized in time to know what day to start sending eBay our boycott announcement e-mails.
Finally, don't stop after you send your first e-mail to eBay. Send eBay an e-mail at least once a week for every week after we start the official boycott. Specifically, I was thinking each person taking part in the boycott would search eBay's current auctions at least once each week, find something they might have considered bidding on before, and e-mail eBay that this is another thing you would have bid on in the past, but won't now because of their new firearms item policy. Referencing a specific auction you won't be bidding on, rather than just sending a generic weekly e-mail telling eBay you are boycotting, should be more effective, since this will give eBay more of a hard reference for all the potential business they are losing.
Again, I am just putting my ideas out here, and much more discussion is obviously going to be needed before any particular strategy is settled on.
FOURTH STEP - We must be patient. It took Martin Luther King and his supporters well over a year, with an organized sustained boycott, to end bus segregation in Montgomery, and it was a decade before we finally saw the so called assault weapons ban of 1994-2004 go into the dustbin of history. Whether convincing eBay of their folly takes months or years, I believe we must keep at it, because in the end if we don't keep pushing the enemies of gun rights back, they will just keep pushing forward.
I apologize for this very long post, and any grammatical or syntax errors that might be present. It is well past midnight here and I can barely keep my eyes open. I will look for and edit out any mistakes tomorrow. Of course everyone please feel free to voice their critiques and opinions. That is what this board is all about.
Molon Labe
July 31, 2007, 07:25 AM
This might be a good thing for sites like Gunbroker.com, and I think it's only a matter of time before someone else starts up another auction related site to deal with this type of merchandise.
Anyone here computer savvy enough to do it?!?!?
July 31, 2007, 08:37 AM
Sonic is correct. We should attempt to get ebay to reverse their position with a combination of logical argument and financial pressure.
We don't want to discard them, we want them to show gunparts that are perfectly legal to sell anywhere in the U.S. are just as normal as replacement crystal or power tools. That helps our cause more than just taking our ball and going home.
USMC - Retired
July 31, 2007, 08:57 AM
Well IF the lunatic got items he used in the Virginia Tech shootings on EBay he must have used a computer to order them. Does anyone know when EBay is set to ban all computer related sales?
July 31, 2007, 09:07 AM
This really sucks. Itw as a good place to look for stuff.
July 31, 2007, 09:59 AM
Unfortunately it may very well be a lost cause. At no time has eBay ever reversed a policy change for item restrictions based on an outcry from their customer base.
July 31, 2007, 10:14 AM
Don't forget to cancel your PayPal account too.
Ala Dan
July 31, 2007, 10:45 AM
Ebay can ride off into the wild, wicked forrest of NEVERLAND as far as I'm
concerned. I haven't visited their web site in many, many moons~! ;):D
Big Calhoun
July 31, 2007, 10:50 AM
I wouldn't even worry about E-Bay as their decision is not grounded in logic and is more pandering to the anti crowd. Fact is the people that run E-Bay are boneheads. They will not allow firearm related items but you can still easily get burglary tools (lock picks, slim jims, 'key guns'), security bits, magnetic strip encoders and decoders, and a host of other things that are 'borderline'. With some good wordsmithing, most of these ads pass thrugh unnoticed unless a user happens to flag that particular auction. E-Bay made a knee-jerk reaction and should suffer for it with the loss of business.
Harley Quinn
July 31, 2007, 10:53 AM
To bad to read this about E-Bay.
I purchased many a good item at that location. Pistol related. Glock mostly. Slides, springs, and magazines. Oh well. Such a deal, they are just marketering and you have to figure those that leave will be replaced by those who think it is a good thing.
Gun related folks are not in the high percentage of sales I would figure, just the right timing for them to get rid of a headache, looks like:scrutiny:
July 31, 2007, 12:00 PM
Being a liberal-run organization they will most certainly not respond to logic as someone suggested. As far as "financial pressure", I'm sure firearms parts are a very miniscule percentage of the fees obtained by Ebay. Funny, all of the liberal-run orgs like Ebay, Craigslist, et al are adamant anti-gunners, but allow pornographic items to be sold:rolleyes:
July 31, 2007, 12:16 PM
Just remember that Ebay is the largest pawnshop in the world for stolen merchandise. I'm sure they are real concerned with the fact that they earn their money through the sales of stolen items... Yeah right! As far as I'm concerned they should be imprisoned for complicity in the crimes that are committed to get the items online.
July 31, 2007, 12:19 PM
July 31, 2007, 12:21 PM
Yawn sums it up...
July 31, 2007, 12:23 PM
eBay is so money hungry now, most people are beginning to stop posting anyway. Their rates are just out of sight now. I have basically stopped putting anything on there........ http://dot11net.net/~jiml/CHLCheers.gif
July 31, 2007, 01:36 PM
Email just received from ebay:
Thank you for your recent email to Matt Halprin in regard to changes to
our Firearms, Weapons and Knives policy. He has asked that I review your
email and respond on his behalf.
Before choosing to discontinue use of your eBay account I hope that you
would allow me the opportunity to explain why we have chosen to amend
our policy.
At eBay we take the safety of our community and our marketplace very
seriously. We have a Trust and Safety team which consists of more than
2,000 experts in online security and safety who are located around the
globe. This team is dedicated to ensuring that our marketplace is a safe
and trusted place for buyers and sellers to engage in trade.
We value an open and transparent marketplace; if items are legal to buy
and sell in an unrestricted manner we allow them on our site. However,
there are some items that while legal, may not be safe for our
marketplace. In these instances, our applicable policies go beyond the
law to ensure that our marketplace is safe.
After careful consideration our executives and our Trust and Safety team
determined, that while legal, any item required to fire a gun has no
place on eBay. All of our policies are under constant review. As the
Internet and the way our communities use the Internet evolves, our
policies and our marketplace must evolve with it. We determined that
this policy change was in the best interest of promoting a safe
marketplace for all members.
I understand your frustration regarding this matter and apologize for
the inconvenience it caused you.
Office of the President
July 31, 2007, 02:35 PM
We value an open and transparent marketplace; if items are legal to buy and sell in an unrestricted manner we allow them on our site
After careful consideration our executives and our Trust and Safety team determined, that while legal, any item required to fire a gun has no place on eBay.
You can't have it both ways, darlin' Terri (why do I picture a little heart thingy over the i?)
Illogical and inconsistent. As if they really care.
July 31, 2007, 03:04 PM
Got the same email a few minutes ago.
My response was:
Thank you for your email. I would only point out that the firearms industry
is one of the most regulated businesses in this country. Your policy, in
effect, is telling anyone who owns a firearm in this country, that they
cannot be trusted.
If you were serious about selling items that can be misused, you would also
prohibit the sale of knives, swords, baseball bats, etc.
Again, it is well known that eBay and PayPal are anti-gun. You do not need
to hide behind some excuse to discontinue selling gun related items. It is
your right to discontinue these items. We don't like it and will move our
business accordingly.
July 31, 2007, 03:16 PM
Go here to comment:
There is some evidence that some brass has already been re-listed after being removed. Pressure needs be applied first to see if the decision stands. If it does, then simple boy cot isn't the answer. We must convince others to follow, in droves!
July 31, 2007, 03:49 PM
The note on the eBay forums about that customer's brass being relisted is only because the policy change has not taken effect yet.
That however is not stopping anti-gun eBay employees from rabidly pulling any auction that is reported to them, or comes across their pre-screen for new listings.
They aren't changing their minds. It has been what, about 4 months since VA Tech? That entire time their lawyers and Meg and Bill have all been figuring out the big old CYA once they make this eBay LAW.... :barf:
July 31, 2007, 03:56 PM
yea this sucks, I have bought a few gun related items their but the policy bothers me more because they think that they are responsible for VT. Need to find the feed back email and let them know how I feel.
July 31, 2007, 04:20 PM
While I think it's a stupid rule, It's their company they can do as they please. I like to use ebay to get deals on a million other things. They've always backed me up in disputes so While I don;t agree with the policy, It won;t change my dealing with them much except they'll lose the gun related income they used to get from me.
Harley Quinn
July 31, 2007, 04:41 PM
Just remember that Ebay is the largest pawnshop in the world for stolen merchandise. I'm sure they are real concerned with the fact that they earn their money through the sales of stolen items... Yeah right! As far as I'm concerned they should be imprisoned for complicity in the crimes that are committed to get the items online.
Do you think this is really true?
I am sort of skeptic about this myself, knowing the business of pawnbrokering, they are heavily regulated and I don't believe E-bay is like that myself.
Most of the dealing's I have had, been really good and descent folks. They do have a group that follows this spot pretty close (LEO) I'd have to think.
July 31, 2007, 05:15 PM
In the case that eBay goes forward with this foolishness, what is a good gun parts website? Is gunbroker pretty good for gun parts or is there a better place?
I wonder, would it make more of an impact to mail paper letters to these fools?
deputy tom
July 31, 2007, 05:57 PM
Stuff e-bay and pay-pal as well.tom.
July 31, 2007, 07:12 PM
Gunbroker, Auction Arms, Guns America.
I would rather give my business to them than feEbay.
July 31, 2007, 09:51 PM
brownells.com has a bunch of replacement parts also
July 31, 2007, 11:16 PM
there are some items that while legal, may not be safe for our
marketplace. In these instances, our applicable policies go beyond the
law to ensure that our marketplace is safe.
I just love being painted upon with a broad brush.
What's next? Is E-bay gonna come out next week and deny black people the usage of their services cause their money could be from liquor store robberies.
Bigotry is Bigotry no matter what group of people it's directed against.
July 31, 2007, 11:19 PM
brownells.com has a bunch of replacement parts also
Yeah! I can go to brownells and order a rear sight for a MAS36.
The great thing about E-bay was being able to locate those parts that you'd NEVER find any other way
July 31, 2007, 11:22 PM
I told them I'd be closing my ebay and paypal accounts, and that I'd use a combination of Craigslist and firearms auction sites going forward.
They may be the 900# gorilla, but they're not the only game in town.
I think EBay owns a significant stake in Craigslist. :banghead:
General Geoff
July 31, 2007, 11:26 PM
I don't know about that (http://www.craigslist.org/about/management.html).
Name: Jim Buckmaster
Title: President, CEO, CFO, programmer
jim buckmaster
Possibly the only CEO ever described as anti-establishment, a communist, and a socialistic anarchist, since 2000 Jim has led craigslist to be the most used classifieds in any medium, and one of world's most popular websites, while maintaining its public service mission, non-corporate vibe, and staff of 20 or so.
Formerly served as lead programmer and CTO, contributing craigslist's multi-city architecture, first search engine, discussion forums, flagging system, self-posting process, homepage design, personals, and best-of-craigslist.
Before joining craigslist, directed web development for Creditland (defunct) and Quantum. In 1994-95, built a terabyte-scale database-driven website for ICPSR at U-Michigan.
Graduated summa cum laude from Virginia Tech with a bachelors in biochemistry, and studied medicine and classics at the University of Michigan.
July 31, 2007, 11:29 PM
However, there are some items that while legal, may not be safe
for our marketplace. In these instances, our applicable policies go
beyond the law to ensure that our marketplace is safe.
Who the hell decides what is safe? I've had students to stab another with a pencil! Do we ban pencils in schools and stop selling them on ebay? No...we deal with the people involved and move on. This crap from e-bay makes me sick. Also, where the hell is the NRA on this one? Surely they could rattle some chains. I've got to stop, my blood pressure is sky high.....I'll come back once I've cooled down some. :cuss:
August 1, 2007, 12:17 AM
If ebay wants to do something useful they should stop selling home brewing supplies to minors that make their own beer because they cant legally buy it.
guess in their eyes a teenager getting drunk off of a homebrew kit sold on ebay and then driving and killing an inoocent family is ok but a law abiding gun owner buying a box full of brass is wrong.
i wonder how many people will now be selling ".45 inch inside diameter scrap brass cylinders" on ebay!
August 1, 2007, 01:17 AM
We lose nothing by trying to get eBay to reverse their policy, and if we get the word out and get organized, I believe it is definitely possible they would. If 6 months or a year from now we were able to get organized to the point where even just one-tenth of 1% of the nationwide populace of gun owners send eBay an e-mail every week about the non-firearm item auctions they are now neither bidding on nor starting, that would be tens of thousands of e-mails every week telling eBay about business they have lost. This is something that I very much doubt eBay would ignore, and it would painfully cut through eBay's belief that with their newly enplaced ban they are only losing the firearm item auctions, but that they are in fact also losing a lot of business on many other auction types.
I still believe an organized, and most importantly a long term boycott, with weekly e-mails to eBay about all the other (non-firearm) auction business they are losing, stands a very good chance of eventually convincing them to reverse their decision, or at least compel them to spinoff an independent eBay related internet auction company that would handle firearm item auctions. I am going to contact the NRA and GOA and see if they would be willing to get behind this boycott method, and will let everyone know what if any response I get. But no matter what I will still proceed on my own with the boycott/weekly e-mail campaign, and will encourage others to join in whenever possible. I know most will think it is a waste of time, but when it comes to gun rights we shouldn't just fight the fights with good odds, we should always just fight.
August 1, 2007, 01:20 AM
Who's running that place, the DNC?
Sir Aardvark
August 1, 2007, 01:32 AM
"We have a Trust and Safety team which consists of more than
2,000 experts..."
No wonder thier fees are so high - they have to pay all these "experts".
I wished I owned a company that could just bleed money on "experts" and stupid rules and still be successful.
Highway Magician
August 1, 2007, 02:07 AM
Oh, Poo-poo! Ah, whaaaatevvver!! Evilbay :evil: sucks anyhow.
And now, I ask for a moment of silence for reddogxxalaskan whose 1911 grip sales will plummet. You know, the SAME grips he has been hawking over & over, daily/weekly for YEARS:
He used to advertise them as Ahrends grips. :rolleyes:
August 1, 2007, 02:22 AM
Anyone following Ebay stock? did it take a hit this week?
August 1, 2007, 06:57 AM
This new update continues to encourage safety among our community members and brings our policies in the U.S. and Canada in closer alignment with our existing policies in other markets around the globe
Emphasis mine. And here yet another manifestation of globalism and it's new-style "free trade" as a vehicle for political change; in this case ideological and political homogenization.
August 1, 2007, 07:24 AM
Hey, Pax !
Shouldn't your title be "Moderatrix Emerita" or some such?
And if there were more than one lady moderator, wouldn't they be "moderatrices?"
Well, you know:
"Alumnus" v "alumna?"
"Index" v "Indices?"
"Vortex" v "Vortices?"
"Kleenex" v "Kleenices?"
(Couldn't help myself. That's been tickling my funnybone for days and I just had to say it and I just woke up and my sense of high road decorum hasn't kicked in yet.)
But, more to the point of this thread, if nobody's noted it before, aren't Paypal payments accepted in the "Donate to THR" thread?
August 1, 2007, 07:31 AM
Stocks? You can't get stocks on ebay any more. There aren't many publicly traded companies that sell stocks, but they are doing well.
August 1, 2007, 09:00 AM
I just had a WTB ad kicked off Craigslist because it was weapons related. Their policy is even worse than ebay's.
August 1, 2007, 09:13 AM
Where can I find Matt Halprin's email address?
August 1, 2007, 10:47 AM
Emails can be sent to:
Expect a canned response, but it is about the only place you can email...
August 1, 2007, 11:31 AM
I sent them an e-mail of protest. Here is the reply:
Hello Mr. XXXXX,
Thank you for your recent email to Matt Halprin regarding the changes to
our Firearms, Weapons and Knives policy. He has asked that I respond on his
behalf. At eBay we take the safety of our community and our marketplace very seriously. We have a Trust and Safety team which consists of more than 2,000 experts in online security and safety who are located around the globe. This team is dedicated to ensuring that our marketplace is a safe and trusted place for buyers and sellers to engage in trade. We value an open and transparent marketplace; if items are legal to buy and sell in an unrestricted manner we allow them on our site. However, there are some items that while legal, may not be safe for our marketplace. In these instances, our applicable policies go beyond the law to ensure that our marketplace is safe.
After careful consideration our executives and our Trust and Safety team
determined that while legal, any item required to fire a gun has no place on eBay. All of our policies are under constant review. As the internet and the way our communities use the internet evolves, our policies and our marketplace must evolve with it. We have determined that this policy change was in the best interest of promoting a safe marketplace for all members.
Mike Smith
Office of the President
eBay, Inc.
You smell that?
August 1, 2007, 02:23 PM
....Got a response from eBay... they CALLED.
Think the poor girl read from the same script the folks emailing are doing, but at least I found out the change will take effect on August 12th, and as of the 13th they will start pulling auctions. :barf:
August 1, 2007, 02:33 PM
before you know it terrorists and drug dealers will be buying trans fats off of ebay. there should be a law against it!! ebay needs to be stopped:D
i got some good deals on brass off of ebay but that was a long time ago. THR should take up the slack with their own auction site for firearms and firearm related items.
August 1, 2007, 03:15 PM
Am I the first to think this: All together now..."Bye, Bye, eBay...Bye, Bye"?
August 1, 2007, 03:22 PM
Yeah what's the big deal? I stopped using them back the last time they did this. Of course, back then they didn't have any canned response when I canceled my account.
August 1, 2007, 03:24 PM
Does the one-fingered wave count?
August 1, 2007, 03:31 PM
Just wrote a letter.
August 1, 2007, 04:15 PM
Emails can be sent to:
Got it. Many thanks.
Matt King
August 1, 2007, 04:24 PM
There is a letter writing campaign underway in Activism. It's a great place to post your letters, and ebay's responses.
Don't Tread On Me
August 1, 2007, 09:47 PM
LOL .....funny responses in this thread.
Ebay has ALWAYS hated guns from day 1. They are owned and run by a bunch of california leftcoast liberal gun haters. Early on, they appreciated the money it made them. After that, it was irrelevant to them, but it wasn't easy for them to wipe out gun related items entirely. Which is why they used the incremental approach.
VT shooting gives them the excuse to completely eliminate. It really doesn't give them the excuse because it isn't an excuse. But to them, they feel it is a reason - and when you question them, they can refer to that and to public safety. Whereas, without the VT shooting, it would just appear to be their blatant anti-gun bigotry. It would be their fault. In their view, this shifts it from an Ebay policy of their choosing to something they were forced to react to.
The only people that condemn Ebay as anti-gun is us. However, the larger middle of the road ignoramuses can view this as sensible. Whereas they would have viewed this as Ebay coming down on guns for political reasons.
Thus, the shift from political bias to public safety.
We've seen that happening in government also with the rise of the police state and the GWOT. That's something to worry about.
As for Ebay. They are a private company, so who cares. The gun culture has existed for hundreds of years before Ebay. Some of you are acting like this is a major move against us. They are insignificant.
August 1, 2007, 10:53 PM
Bought my Bar=Sto barrel and bushing for my Springer Loaded from Ebay. $100, NIW. Prolly cuz not too many people thought to look for one there. Now, if I go to Gunbroker, people will prolly punch up Bar-Sto twelve times a second....oh, well.
I think the main point is, Ebay is a ginormous (that's a word now, isn't it?) company, and their policies are sending out a loud anti-gun message. It doesn't matter that we have other avenues with which to buy/sell gun-related items. If Walmart's doing it, and Ebay's doing it, how long before other companies hop on the bandwagon and become Nanny-Corps?
August 2, 2007, 01:35 AM
Emailing them is Peeing in the wind. I prefer to outwit them at their own game same as I have been doing for the last 10 years.
But of course the JR. G-Men and eBay volunteer police will be hard to get by as they are very active on this and other gun forums.
Matt King
August 2, 2007, 11:26 AM
Email Sent. They can't ignore a wave of pro-gun emails.
August 2, 2007, 11:42 AM
They can't ignore a wave of pro-gun emails.
They probaby are ignoring them in that they are not readig them in their entirety. Once they know it's a protest or cancelled membership letter they automatically send out the appropriate canned response.
30 cal slob
August 2, 2007, 11:48 AM
e-bay's loss is another business' (gunbroker etc) gain.
and frankly, i've been buying a ton more gun-related stuff from the buy-sell-trade forums of THR and other boards than i ever have with e-bay.
think whitman will give a rat's arse?
August 2, 2007, 12:13 PM
Found this on petition castboolits. i signed it...don't what type of impact it will have on eBay.
August 2, 2007, 12:41 PM
Cancelled mine yesterday. Had an account for at least eight years - ninety percent of purchases were militaria/firearm related. F' em.
August 2, 2007, 03:22 PM
You can voice your concerns at the next Ebay town hall meeting on 15 Aug 07.
August 2, 2007, 03:46 PM
I find this news saddening. Has anyone thought to contact the Better Business Bureau? I'd be interested in following up with them as this in my mind constitutes inappropriate corporate behaviour. People have pointed out that ebay is a private company but it is not, it is a publicly traded company. Those ebay members that own company stock should definitely have a strong voice in complaint.
Beyond that, ebay is not a company providing goods and services, ebay doesn't sell anything of its own. I.e a company like walmart can decide what it choose to purchase and then sell in its stores but in the case of ebay, its constituents are deciding what they want to sell. There's no legal requirements saying that ebay CANNOT list firearm related items on their website so by doing so arbitrarily they are unfairly discriminating against a market section that they had previously allowed.
Hey, it's worth a chance, at least if ebay gets a letter of complaint from the BBB they have to actually do something other than just a canned letter.
Jim Diver
August 2, 2007, 04:02 PM
I will still use Ebay. In fact I just got a great deal on a HAM radio I wanted.
For guns and stuff I will go elsewhere. They are not the only party in town. Ebay's loss is someone else's opportunity.
August 2, 2007, 05:56 PM
For those of you who say that Ebay can do whatever it wants just because it's a private company, why don't you go talk with some Denny's managers. They are a private company, but they got their ass handed to them over deciding who eats at their table and who does not.
I also think that the push by Ebay to promote people establishing their own "business" has left them with at least some responsibility to those who did just that, obtaining most of their income from ebay gun parts sales. Ebay has now given those people less than 16 days to close up shop and find something else to do. yes there are people who were selling full time. Where else would you build a business and be forced out after building a name without at least some legal recourse?
August 2, 2007, 09:03 PM
Thanks for the heads-up on this foolishness, all. I canceled my Ebay account today. They're only making me wait two weeks before it's gone (though it's already locked).
Jeff F
August 3, 2007, 12:16 AM
Just closed my e bay account.
August 3, 2007, 01:39 PM
Mine has just been closed as well. PayPal closure is in process.
Thanks all for the heads up!
August 3, 2007, 02:19 PM
I was going to close my eBay account, but decided against it. There is too much good stuff still on eBay that I can't find elsewhere.
August 3, 2007, 03:58 PM
This is what I told them (and I've been an Ebay power seller for many years, and have used Paypal extensively over the years as well.)
Regarding your new policy on Firearms related items:
Mr. Halprin states:
"As you may know, eBay does not allow the listing of any items which are regulated by individual states or the federal government; however, there are still a large number of firearm-related parts that are legal and are widely available in retail stores. These items have also historically been allowed on eBay.
After learning that some items purchased on eBay may have been used in the tragedy at Virginia Tech in April 2007, we felt that revisiting our policies was not only necessary, but the right thing to do. After much consideration, the Trust & Safety policy team ? along with our executive leaders at eBay Inc. ? have made the decision to further restrict more of these items than federal and state regulations require. "
Is this a joke? Am I reading this correctly? Your company, with whom I've done business with for many years, including over $10,000 worth of transactions (including ebay auctions and Paypal use) is now deciding that just because ONE person bought a LEGAL product on Ebay and then misused it, that Ebay is now going to punish the 99.999999999999999999999% of the law-abiding users and buyers/sellers of those products? What sort of twisted logic is that? Were you aware that Ebay allows people to buy and sell Automobiles, parts of Autos, and items that allow people to make and eat high-fat, high-cholesterol foods? Those things are directly responsible for killing millions of people every year, and yet you aren't banning those items.
I'm sure that many items that are sold on Ebay have been used for nefarious purposes - however, you are choosing to abandon millions of your customers in some vain attempt at a knee-jerk reaction that does no one any good and simply drives customers like me away.
I hope that you will reconsider this irrational and ultimately costly mistake. If you do not, millions of your customers (myself included) will stop using all of your services, including Paypal, and go elsewhere. You may not care about one voice in a sea of many, but eventually the noise we make will be deafening. This is not about guns. This is about rationality and free-market commerce. And you apparently think that you know better than "the people" as to what they should and shouldn't be allowed to buy and sell. Shame on you.
August 3, 2007, 07:23 PM
Yeh and no bullet TIPS?? What the hexx are they??
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October 10, 2011 - Ray Tsuchiyama
In early September my wife C. and I completed a barely 30-minute flight from Honolulu to Kahului Airport to begin a new phase in our lives. The second-largest Hawaiian island is a new adventure for us, very different from our recent lives and sense of place and people.
This blog shall describe our adjustment, frustrations, happiness, and awakenings – much like many recent transplants to Maui, from Oahu, California, Washington, Idaho, British Columbia*, and even Europe and other regions. Walking in the red dust alongside cane fields, I feel like a newcomer yet simultaneously connected genetically to Maui, as our family's history goes back more than a century on this beautiful island.
For the last 20 years we lived in an enormous mega-tropolis of Tokyo, a city of about 15 million people, plus adjoining Yokohama, with another 4 million citizens – in the center of the Kanto region (a sprawling plain where 45 million Japanese live, hemmed in by the mountain ranges running up and down the main island of Honshu). We lived in Minato Ward, one of 23 wards or "micro-cities" that comprise Tokyo metropolitan prefecture. Minato Ward has an official area of eight square miles -- compared to Kahului town with 16 square miles or double the area. Compared to Minato Ward's population of 220,000 though, the entire population of Maui County is now about 160,000 (Kahului itself is at 28,000).
Population numbers figure significantly in my family's story, as Maui had waves of different peoples, different cultures during the past two centuries. Although I had never lived on Maui (I visited Maui in the 1960s as a child and have vivid, happy memories, hence the word in the Blog Title), my grandparents – on my father's side – arrived in Kahului in 1907, just six years after the Waikiki flagship Moana Hotel opened its doors to America's social elite, four years before the end of the Meiji Era (and beginning of Taisho), the year the solidly-built Wailuku Courthouse was dedicated and when best-selling author Jack London toured a rugged, wild Haleakala.
1907 was after the Japanese triumph in the Russo-Japanese War, and my father, born in Kahului in 1915, was given his first name the same Chinese character (kanji) as the Japanese Army general Maresuke Nogi, the "hero" of Japanese battles against Russian forces. My grandparents must have followed the war in Japanese newspapers avidly before departing for Maui, and whenever a Japanese newspaper arrived on Maui, they must have read it from cover to cover: neither Internet nor Email back then.
The turn of the century seems so long ago, a world of dusty sepia photographs and jumpy silent movies, but to show how "relative" time and events are, in the same year that my grandparents immigrated to Maui (1907), Nobel Prize winner Albert Einstein introduced the principle of equivalence of gravitation and inertia and used it to predict the gravitational redshift – probably physics ideas challenging and utterly remote to well-educated people living today in the high tech Microsoft/Google world of 2011.
1907 was also barely 15 years after the Overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom in 1893 by rebellious American citizens living in the Kingdom – (energetic, some would say aggressive) sugar planters who would transform Maui's central plains and also increase the population dramatically by contracting thousands of sugar field laborers (and bringing their families). In the 1920s and into 1930s many Japanese, like my grandparents, would settle into various plantation camps, and the population would jump to 20,000 before World War II. Yet the Hawaiian population numbered probably twice that figure in the early 19th century in pre-Western contact Maui of sustainable fishponds, taro fields, coconuts, and breadfruit (ulu) – and no infectious diseases such as smallpox and tuberculosis. One can discover in the past for a utopian sustainable society and environment that so many Mauians "vision" for Maui's future.
During the past two decades the new voter registrations in Kihei, Up-Country, the "West Side" (Lahaina, Kapalua) – outside of the traditional voter concentration in Central Maui -- reflect the surge of new-comers with "visions" about Maui (this includes many historical figures – hence, that word in my blog title). They chose this island for a new lifestyle, a world away from cold rainy Seattle or Spokane or Vancouver or even hectic, concrete Oahu (with nearly 950,000 hurtling each Monday morning on H-1 and back again, with crowded weekend teriyaki BBQs at Ala Moana Park). Yet, in the post-World War II years and into the early 1960s Maui experienced emigration of its young, ambitious individuals to the bright lights and air-conditioned office jobs on Oahu or more recently to Clark County, Nevada (>60,000 former Hawaii residents live in the desert economic wonder, now beset by jobs loss and real estate downturn).
As one friend – based on years of seeing people arrive on Maui (and many departing) -- said: " . . . Although many choose Maui to live, only Maui decides who shall stay and who shall depart". . . . A very spiritual Maui saying.
Upon reflection my wife C. and I hope that we can stay – in a sense, we accelerated our return back to Hawaii after the Great Eastern Japan Earthquake on March 11, and Maui welcomed us to heal amidst the natural beauty and tranquility. We have no Grand Plan, other than we arrived on Maui from afar and we hope that we can make friends and contribute to Maui in a positive way, and to extend insights on our life journey, in a 100-year circle recalling my grandparents on a ship from Yokohama to Kahului, viewing the sharply-etched green mountains and wispy white clouds for the first time.
*I was startled by a "Canadian cigarettes sold here" sign at a Kihei mall shop: evidence of sharp segment-focused marketing by a Mauian retailer.
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A good 30 minutes in the sauna till you can't take it anymore
Echinacea, GoldenSeal (root), Elderberry Syrup (amazing!), Vitamin D, "Oscillococcinum" (Homeopathic Drug). Gave all of these to my sick kiddos last night and this morning the 3 yr old looked perfectly fine, after only one day of this 'crud' and the 10 yr old didn't have a fever.
Anything with 'heat', like Cayenne Pepper (you can find them in capsule form) will get the blood moving and helps to kill the bugs too.
A good 30 minutes in the sauna till you can't take it anymore
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this recipe per Chris Kresser will knock a cold out if you catch it early. use a juicer:
-1 inch (about a "thumb" size) of ginger
-tsp cayenne pepper
-3 oz apple cider vinegar
-juice of a whole lemon
-1/2 tsp turmeric
-5 cloves of garlic
-enough water to make it about 8-12 oz
make more and sip constantly throughout the day.
"Always be yourself. Express yourself. Have faith in yourself. Do not go out and look for a successful personality and duplicate it." -Bruce Lee
Lots and lots of ascorbic acid.
"The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."


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Information for members
RFA on Facebook
Beginning Classes
To expose people to the Olympic sport of Foil Fencing
Intermediate Foil Classes
This is the level after Beginning Fencing.
Intermediate students will develop new skills to
foster a better sense of strategy and fencing
distance. This is where students develop the skills
needed to move to competitive fencing or decide
to remain recreational.
Rockville Fencing Academy's Intermediate Classes operate on a rolling admissions basis. The classes don't have fixed sessions; they meet year round. Join when you wish & stay as long as you like.
XS: 7-9 Year olds
Thursdays 6:15 pm
Saturdays 11:00 am
Sundays 10:15 am
Thursdays 7:25pm 10 - 13 year olds
Saturdays 12:30pm 10 - 13 year olds
Sundays 2:30PM 9 - 14 year olds
Adult (14 - Adult)
Thursdays 8:30pm
Saturdays 2:00pm
Sundays 1:00 pm
Advanced Foil Classes
This class prepares fencers to compete. It is more
physical and assumes that the basic moves are
already natural. More advanced tactical moves are
the emphasis of this class.
Rockville Fencing Academy's advanced/competitive Classes operate on a rolling admissions basis. The classes don't have fixed sessions; they meet year round. Join when you wish & stay as long as you like.
Coaches permission is required for these classes.
Youth -- Fridays 7:00pm -- Electric
Teenage -- Mondays 7:00pm -- 8:30pm -- Electric
Adult -- Saturdays 10:00 am -- Dry, Precompetitive
Adult -- Saturdays 3:30pm -- Electric Competitive
Private Lessons
For students of all levels that want to learn the
exacting technique that is required for competitive
The lessons are scheduled with the individual coaches.
Beginning Classes
Intermediate Classes
Advanced Classes
Private Lessons


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Finances led to the
closing of Kyes Homes
To the editor:
On Wednesday, Nov. 5, I made one of the most difficult decisions of my tenure as director of the Columbiana County Department of Job and Family Services-I recommended to the board of county commissioners that they close the Kyes Home in East Palestine and abolish the youth leader positions from our table of organization, thereby making the closing permanent and final.
The announcement of this decision came as quite a surprise to many people. One member of the media who sees me nearly every Wednesday said, "You could have knocked me over with a feather." It was not my intent to either shock or surprise. The continuing operation of the Kyes Home had been on my mind for some time.
Financially, operations were problematic. In order for the Kyes Home to be a cost-effective method of providing foster care, we must maintain a resident count of a minimum of six girls-that is our "break even" point. In 16 of the past 18 months, our resident count fell well below that number, making the operations a losing proposition from a purely financial perspective.
As most people familiar with the work we did at Kyes would agree, the home was about a lot more than just the dollars and cents of the operations. We made a home for girls whose families could not care for them. We provided one-on-one day-to-day care for hundreds of girls over the years. Kyes became their "home."
In addition, the support of the community for the Kyes Home was phenomenal. Every time we had a need, some group or individual from somewhere in the community or county-at-large stepped forward to help us out. We forged friendships and partnerships, met and worked with so many good people as we strived together to meet the needs of our Kyes girls.
In the end, sentimentality and wishful thinking had to succumb to practicality and the pure, hard fact that it is no longer cost effective for us to operate a Group Home like Kyes. Most of our girls who cannot live in a family need much more than we could provide at Kyes.
With the failing of the levy on Nov. 4 came the realization that we must make every effort to be as cost effective as possible. Closing Kyes will save over $100,000 per year. This step alone will not close the funding gap between anticipated revenues and anticipated expenses. We have much more work to do. I have already met with leadership at both the court and the prosecutor's office to solicit their support and assistance in diverting children from foster care whenever and wherever safely possible. Safety of children must always be our first priority.
The closing of the Kyes Home has left us all a little saddened. But even as the closing of the Kyes Home was finalized, new opportunities to use the facility as a site for services geared toward meeting the needs of children and families began to present themselves. We now envision the "Kyes Family Services Center" continuing to provide services to children and families and continuing to fulfill the vision and gift of the Kyes family so long ago.
In closing, I want to express the enduring and heartfelt gratitude we here at CCDJFS hold for all of those acts of generosity, kindness, and concern which so many good people of our community performed for our girls at Kyes. Thank you and stay tuned... With any luck, we will be back in the spring with a kick-off for our new "Kyes Family Services Center."
Columbiana County
Department of Job and
Family Services
West Branch Choral
Parents appreciative
To the editor:
Recently the West Branch Choral Parents held a fund-raiser, in which they sold authentic Petrucci's pizza. Many, many community people, from the West Branch Community pitched in and helped.
We would like to thank everyone who had a "hand" in making pizzas. Your time and hard work were greatly appreciated! A special thanks to the former owners of Petrucci's Restaurant: Mary Jane Grandolfo and her daughters Patti, Carmel, Sue and Tina. Thanks a million! The pizzas were great!
The Fine Arts Department at West Branch and The West Branch Choral Parents
Where are all the
reports on the Fair Tax?
To the editor:
Although bailouts and stimulus packages are topping the news, there is an absence of reporting on a bailout and stimulus plan that surpasses previous proposals by over tenfold. That plan is the Fair Tax.
The Fair Tax is a tax reform proposal that un-taxes American investment and business and makes America the world's tax haven. Alan Greenspan is reported to have said that, of the $12 trillion of American capital sitting offshore, $10 trillion of that capital would come back onshore in a matter of months if we had the Fair Tax. If that happens, our liquidity crisis would be solved almost overnight.
The Fair Tax replaces corporate and personal income taxes, estate and gift taxes and federal payroll taxes with a progressive national retail tax on all consumption, once and only once, in a way that is fair to low-income people and gives the federal government the same real spending power it has today. Twenty-three million dollar's worth of research says the plan will work.
The Fair Tax lets you decide through your purchasing decisions how much tax you pay and when you pay it. It lets you keep your entire check free of federal taxes and withholding. You skip the April 15 filing date and "do your taxes" at the checkout counter-and walk away with no chance of an IRS audit.
Tell President-Elect Obama, Congressman Wilson and Senators Voinovich and Brown that you demand the Fair Tax.
East Liverpool
'No' vote was aimed
at BL superintendent
To the editor:
I think that the recent Beaver Local levy non- renewal needs to be addressed. I know I speak for myself and many others. Our "no" vote was a vote against the administration, specifically the superintendent Sandra DiBacco. This woman has wreaked havoc within the Beaver Local Schools and needs to be removed. She is disrespectful of the students, teachers, parents and alumni. She shoots off her mouth without full knowledge of the facts. I know that any future levy of any kind will fail, as long as she is superintendent.
East Liverpool
When is cruelty to
animals going to stop?
To the editor:
When is this cruelty to animals going to stop? This is an outrage how Brenda Austin and her gang are finding more and more ignorant, careless and heartless people. I agree with Becky Sterns' letter saying the law needs to step in and start doing something about these people instead of nothing. They need to be punished. These "low lifes" need to be chained outside without any food, water or shelter for a couple of days and see how it feels. If you cannot take care of the animal(s) you do have, don't neglect them and make them suffer, that is the coward's way.
East Palestine
Needs help in forming
a U14 soccer team
To the editor:
My name is Parker Zamarelli, and I am looking for a U14 in door soccer team to play on or enough players that would like to join together and make our own team. I have two United High School seniors willing to coach, we just need a team. We would play and practice in Salem. (Jon and Joe Karmazin).
If you are interested, please call 330-337-316 or email email@example.com.
I really enjoy playing soccer, indoor and out, and just wanna play. The next session at the Community Center starts soon, so hurry!
Local Goodwill thanks
community for help
To the editor:
Each year Goodwill designates the month of November as Thanks for Giving Month.
This year your local Goodwill would like to thank our community for their generous support. Your contributions help us to provide employment, vocational services, Radio Reading and other important services to people with disabilities, disadvantages and other barriers.
I'd also like to thank people who shop in our stores, our customers for whom we provide janitorial services and contract work, and the referral agencies and funders of various services.
As the tight economy impacts legitimate charities, your donated items and support are increasingly important so I am urging donors to know to whom they are giving.
Many charitable organizations like Goodwill utilize your donations locally to provide services to our friends and neighbors.
Thank you for your continued support. Please donate wisely and well.
Executive director
Let's embrace the
season of Christmas
To the editor:
Christmas has always been an important time of the year for me.
As a child we celebrated Christmas just like everyone else. Over time the biggest difference was when we started that celebration, when we ended it, and how much money was spent.
We live in a completely different society today. Yes, Christmas is still the most important season of the year and most of us celebrate it, but we certainly do it in many different ways. As we know the time element and money spent is quit different.
When I was a child, one week before Christmas the tree went up, and one week after, the tree went down. Now we see them in September and October in the stores and November in our homes. I made a wish list and was thrilled to get even part of that list. Today our children feel entitled to the whole list.
We live in a feel good society. Many think that whatever brightens us up or makes us feel better is OK. I used to think that putting all the Christmas decorations up before Thanksgiving was wrong. Why would we be ready for one holiday when the nearest one isn't even here yet? I hear people say we are dishonoring Thanksgiving and Christmas by doing so much so early. It seems like we go from one holiday to the next thriving on the excitement. But right now, I am looking at this in a different way.
Our times are troubled with economic hardships, joblessness, loss of homes, illness, some without insurance, depression, broken hearts and everything we face, we need some feel good time more than ever before. If someone wants to put up decorations early or play Christmas music all day, go for it! It might remind others of the real meaning of the season. Anything a person can do to remind or teach another the meaning of Christmas, not just for the week before and the week after, then do it. You won't get my criticism. It thrills me to think that even through all the commercialism we might be able to get the meaning of Jesus Christ's birth celebrated for as many days as we possibly can. If someone is thinking of Christmas in October, then great! We thank people with gifts, we show love with gifts, we share, we sing, we praise, we eat great food, we help those in need and we give of ourselves during this time. All because of the Baby Jesus.
Maybe you are not a Christmas person. Maybe you are a scrooge. Maybe you are not in one of the situations I have described, money is not a problem, you have a job, good health, surrounded by loved ones, your cupboards are full, and everything is OK. Then share with someone else. It might just be what they need and they can have some good feelings for a change.
The season is all about faith and hope and love. Just one song, or light, or candle, cookie, smile or gift could give someone the lift they need that day. So, clean your house, dust, sweep, bake, do whatever you do and decorate if you want!


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European banks flock to ECB's free money (Bloomberg)
The European Central Bank has a responsibility to keep the banking system functioning, and it has decided to do that by offering banks very cheap long term loans. In fact these loans are so generous that Bloomberg and others have described them as "free money".
Of course there is no such thing as free money, free money is just a magic trick that shuffles the money about, and if you watch what is going on carefully enough you see it just a sleight of hand trick that benefits one at the cost of the other. In this case what we are really talking about is a transfer of wealth to European banks from everyone else. This kind of operation is inequality promoting because "the ripped off lied to little people" don't have the skill to hedge against inflation, nor exploit financial anomalies, and the spread between their mortgage rate and the "risk free rate" widens dramatically. Italy is famous for its historical use of negative real rate inflationary policy, and it's also famous for wealth inequality. But the situation today is much more serious, because back in the 1970s before financial liberalization this kind of policy did somewhat negatively effect the wealthy, whereas today it's purely beneficial. So this action is like giving the rich a money printing press, and shutting the little people out of the party, and increasing the margin the rich earn on the little people's loans. You can hear them all outside screaming as we pop open the champagne bottles, and we lean out of the window and say "don't worry it will trickle down!". Those of us who run hedge funds in Switzerland are laughing all the way to the bank, but the journalists and politicians who are supposed to represent the people's interest and are now breathing a sign of relief at the stabilization of the banking system don't think about the long term picture. They don't realise that the trickle down is an illusion, it's actually a completely trickle up operation that is just making things vastly worse.
Newspapers complain that austerity costs jobs, they say look at the USA - it's growing at 2%-3% per year racking up debts instead of implementing budget cuts, so stimulus is the logical choice. That's typical of democratic decision making, there is no though for the future, whatever feels good is the "logical choice". A word that is suddenly fashionable in the West today is "pragmatism", but in a world in which everyone is using a sort of moral compass to make decisions pragmatism is a disaster, because the power of pragmatism depends on the ability to see far into the future. For example, Stalin called himself a pragmatist, and he did get very good short term results, but if you look very far ahead, his terror destroyed both the communal idealism and the professionalism of the Russians, so when the pressure was lifted by Khrushchev everything rapidly unravelled. How can we describe modern economic policy? There are two policy leavers, fiscal policy and monetary policy, and two targets, inflation and growth; and when policymakers think about these targets they are thinking no more than about a year into the future; and none of their forecasts work, nor do they have real idea how much they should pull these levers. Do you see this is a recipe for disaster?
The crisis reminds me of story told by Plato. The Great Philosopher Tharles was walking along one day studying the stars looking upwards when he fell into a pit. An attractive and witty Thracian serving girl jeered at him for being so eager to know the things in the sky that he couldn't see what was before him at his very feet. It's a joke about philosophers who are so long sighted and starry eyed they come across as bumbling idiots or mat hatters in ordinary conversation. Yet the crisis today brings to mind another vision. It makes me think of great statesmen crawling in the dirt, studying the consistency of soil through microscopes like the medieval doctors who studied stool samples. They turn an inch to the left and an inch to the right looking for the optimal path, but the crisis just keeps getting worse. A Thessalian witch screeches why didn't you Emperors of Wisdom turn left three hours ago, can't you see you're driving the mule train into a volcano. There's a yell from the crowd "the emperors are wearing no clothes", then a hail of laughter, then a sudden violent shift in the mood.
From an old article of mine:
Figuring out how to handle both the insolvency of Fannie and Freddie, and major banks such as Lehmans, is one of the major issue of today. Personally I do not approve of the UK's Northern Rock Nationalization which protected unsecured bond holders and is likely to cost the tax payer money. At the same time allowing Lehman's to fail was absurd because the FED could have saved it and made a profit by writing off both the shareholders and bond holders during a compulsory nationalization...
What I would be tempted to do is start nationalizing failing banks, writing off both shareholders and bond holders, which would cascade through the entire banking system, but would leave ordinary depositors protected. As a result the government would end up taking possession of almost the entire banking system for nothing, and in ten years time it could sell all the banks back to investors, meanwhile lending would not shrink because the state owned banks would not have to cut risk. What I am describing is a slightly more aggressive version of the 1991/92 Swedish banking rescue, yet there is an even more radial option available - don't re-privatize. Some have suggested the power to create new money, which is an integral part of the fractional reserve banking system, is simply too dangerous to be left in private hands, and we need a largely state owned banking system.
In Plato's Republic one of the financial reforms Socrates suggested was choosing the market traders, the financial intermediaries facilitating the efficient exchange of goods, from amongst the least warrior like and least quick witted members of society. Socrates wanted the financial system to be as simple and boring as possible. For example, instead of targeting inflation or growth I would consider setting interest rates to prevent financial anomalies such as the currently negative real rate for cash which is so hopelessly out of line with rising real asset markets and which consequently drives inequality and inefficiency. Socrates even said the commodity prices should be stable and shouldn't fluctuate, so goods simply run out in times of shortage instead of rising in price, and I think that he has a point here we are missing today.
Now if your goal is to make the financial world boring, for example much more like the way it was from the 1950s up until the 1980s, the innovative vibrancy and risk appetite of the private sector is the very antithesis of your needs, and a state owned financial system is the ideal solution.
Was the starry eyed visionary Socrates right? Think about his suggestion made
2,500 years ago that "we choose financial traders from amongst the least warrior
like and least quick witted members of society".
In Jan 2009 Lord Turner said: "the years running up to 2007, too much of the developed world's intellectual talent was devoted to ever more complex financial innovations, whose maximum possible benefit in terms of allocative efficiency was at best marginal, and which in their complexity and opacity created large financial stability risks"
How amazing is that? That's what I call long sighted.


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Barring injury, Ohio State QB Braxton Miller is going to be a star in 2013.
Anyone knows that. Everyone knows that.
Ah, but identifying who the next stars are, the ones who will rise from relative obscurity to dominate the Big Ten? Therein lies the real challenge.
Just like Iowa RB Mark Weisman came out of absolutely nowhere to lead the Hawkeye rushing attack in 2012, here are five Big Ten names you should know right now, because you'll be hearing them over and over in 2013.


text:
A correction has been published | View article
Error in "Methods" Text. In the article titled "Association Between Tumor Necrosis Factor Inhibitor Therapy and Myocardial Infarction Risk in Patients With Psoriasis" by Wu et al published online August 20, 2012, and published in the November issue of the journal (2012;148[11]:1244-1250), on page 1245, left-hand column, under the subheading "Setting and Participants" in the "Methods" section, first paragraph, the third sentence should have read "The exclusion criterion was a history of MI (ICD-9-CM code 410.XX or 412) documented prior to the third psoriasis diagnosis code."
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OK, please bare with me if I sounds stupid, but I need some info on the duplicate settings.
With my setup of the forum, there is almost 0 chance of having topics named the same.
I use Advanced mode and I have set:
"Activate The No duplicate:" YES, don't know why, because not really clear to me what is does.
"Activate the Zero duplicate:" YES
"Strict Mode:" NO
"Posts Redirections:" OFF, I just want everybody, incl. bots, Google, sitemap, to use the rewrite URL's, so no viewtopic and such anywhere.
An hour ago I had it all on NO and when creating a sitemap (with A1 sitemap generator) both the rewrite and viewtopic URL's where in there. After setting it as above the sitemap now only has the rewrite URL's, so that is good thing.
If I am missing something here, or more likely I do not get what this duplicate is really about, please clarify it for me in as much PLAIN English as possible.
Thanks, Ron


text:
Volunteers for medical camp in Bangladesh needed
14 October 2004
Dinajpur, Bangladesh: Since 1995, Bangladesh Rural Iimprovement Foundation (BRIF) has been organizing eye treatment camps providing free medical and surgical treatment to poor rural people suffering from eye disease.
They have expanded their services to identify and treat ear problems. All services, including surgery, medicine, food and board are provided to the patients free of charge. Local doctors volunteer their time and skills to perform the surgery.
The organization needs volunteers who can help set up a hospital at the local community centre and support patients before surgery. The volunteer will assist doctors during surgery and provide all post-operative care for the patients, including food preparation.
Volunteers do not need a medical background: your time and support are the most important factors.
The campsite is at Jaldhaka Upazila, 40 km from BRIF head office, Goaldihi, Dinajpur and 380 km from Dhaka.
The programme fee is US$250, which covers: