text:
Taurus Millennium Pro owners?
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Handguns: Autoloaders
> Taurus Millennium Pro owners?
November 20, 2006, 02:23 AM
What are your thoughts on this gun? Specifically the 9mm version with a DA/SA trigger.
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November 20, 2006, 08:27 AM
I think Taurus refers to it as SA/DA to distinguish it from the traditional hammer drop DA first shot, SA followup guns since its always SA unless the primer fails to go, then it reverts to DA. Dubious feature as tap-rack-back should be the proper response if you get click instead of bang.
I have one in .40S&W, like it, basically I think its a very good gun for the money and perhaps the best value on the market in sub-compacts. I carry it when I know I'm going to have to leave the gun in the car at some point of my rounds. Only two complaints are I think rails on sub-compacts are just plain goofy and only make a limited holster selection much more so; and I wish the safety was ambidexterious, if you think the Glock is safe to carry then this gun doesn't need an external safety either, but since it has one, IMHO it should be ambi. Others might think the external safety should be a decocker instead, but I hate DA/SA operation.
Edit: I should mention that not all have the rails, mine doesn't, but most of the new PT-145s I've seen lately do so it may be finding its way to new production :(
November 20, 2006, 08:55 AM
I've got the 9mm and love it. Shoots beutifully, has never jammed with all the different ammo I fed it with. Before I bought it, it was a toss up between the Mill Pro and the XD. The Taurus just felt much more natural in my hand and I bought it over the XD.
It is a great gun which will not break the bank!
November 20, 2006, 05:04 PM
Just bought it and have only been to the range once. We shot at 25 yards which is pretty far for a 3" barrel and we all stayed on paper. The recoil on the molded polymer frame is so much different than the all metal frame. A friend of mine had an all steel 9mm makarov which is between a .380 and a regular 9mm. It shoots a 110 grain bullet and after a few shots I could feel discomfort in the arch of my hand. We fired both my pt145 and beretta PX4 Storm in .40 S &W. The Beretta .40 S&W had 180 gr FMJ and the .45 had 230 gr FMJ. Both will let you know you just shot a pretty big bullet, but its a smooth recoil. There is no shock to your hand or wrist. When my wife tried the .45 she really enjoyed it. Even though its twice the 9MM it has a lot more comfortable recoil than the all steel 9mm mak.
I used the old colt Gold cup in the army which is quite a bit larger and heavier than the Taurus, and had about 25% more recoil than the Taurus with a lot of shock and discomfort to the hand and wrist.
I love both my Beretta and my Taurus, wouldn't trade them for any on the market. The PT145 is easy to conceal, shoots great and is a steal for the price.
November 20, 2006, 05:26 PM
I purchaed a Taurus Mil Pro PT145SS a couple of weeks ago and I finally made it to the range Sat.!
I put 200 rds of WWB 230 gr FMJ and 40 rds of Federal Personal Protection 230 gr JHP thru it with NO problems, All fed, fired and ejected fine.
Recoil was less than expected, pistol fit my hand great, I really like it, It's a Keeper.
November 20, 2006, 06:50 PM
Mil Pro PT145 owner here. The old school DAO trigger too. Have shot around 600rnds through the gun with only one FTFire. Bad primer.
The gun is a pleasure to shoot and does excellent for the drills I practice. 10 to 3 yard CoM double taps with a head follow up. The gun is big enough to make handling the recoil a no sweat deal.
The 9mm version is just a tad smaller in the grip, so you should expect the same as my PT145, Enjoyment.
November 20, 2006, 07:23 PM
I've had the PT111pro (DAO, no rails) for about 6 months now. No burps of any kind, about 750-1000 rounds through it. It fits my smallish hand perfectly, and it's my everyday carry gun. I either pocket carry with a Mika pocket holster or IWB if the pocket in the particular pants I'm wearing is small. I also was considering an XD but chose the Taurus because of the fit. I was able to buy a holster and 2 extra mags with the money I saved.
I'm a lefty, and I also wish the safety was ambi. I've become pretty adept at flicking the safety off just before unholstering. It's a DAO, and my holsters cover the trigger, but something about the extra security of the safety tells me to keep it engaged while carrying.
I've not seen very many negatives posted about the Milpros. The non-pro versions definitely had some nay-sayers.
Redneck with a 40
November 20, 2006, 10:15 PM
I've got a taurus mil-pro 40 that I've owned since January '06. This gun was an impluse buy on a whim, I had a trade and went looking for a new gun. Boy do I NOT regret that decision, this gun is awesome!! It fits my hand great, points naturally, has been 100% reliable after 1000 rounds, and it manages the recoil of the 40 round great. I'll second the positive statements made about these guns in the above post's, I love mine. For the money, these are the best bang for the buck out there, IMHO.:D I also own an XD 40 and its a toss up as to which is the better gun, the Mil-Pro is almost as accurate as the XD from 20 yards. Taurus has a real winner with these guns.
The only disadvantage to this gun.....the magazines are $35 apeice.
November 21, 2006, 10:21 AM
I have the 3rd generation PT111 Pro. I have been to the range once with it. I didn't have any problems with cycling. I thought the trigger was very smooth and recoil was comfortable. I was shooting at a 15 yard target. All shots landed on 1 foot by 1 foot target.
I am having a small problem finding a holster for it. Any that were designed for the 1st and 2nd generation Pt111 don't fit the 3rd.
I am happy with the purchase.
November 21, 2006, 10:41 AM
I have just recently purchased the new DA/SA Mil Pro, mine has fired 200 rds of WWB no failures, and just over a hundred rounds of JHP hand loads with no failures. I compared it with the Kel Tec P11, but I just felt the Mil Pro was much more gun for the money. the fit in the hand is better than any other SC, IMHO. The trigger is great and it shoots better than I can. My only gripe is the Straight Eight sights, at the indoor range on black targets it can be a little hard to be perfectly aligned. I would agree with the others, for the money it is hard to beat the new Mil Pro's in any caliber. And unlike the Kel Tec you don't need a trigger job or the feed ramp polished. You could look into the XD or a used Glock but you will still more than likely pay more than the Mil Pro. Good Luck and Be Safe!
patriarch 2
November 21, 2006, 01:42 PM
Redneck with a 40
November 21, 2006, 09:56 PM
That Ayoob article runs counter to everything I've read about 40 S&W ammo, its got a proven track record on the street. The ammo has only gotten better recently with the addition of 135-165 grain loads. The US Border Patrol uses the 155 grain Golden Sabres and they have experienced awesome performance. I personally use 155 grain Winchester Ranger's at 1205 fps with 502 ft lbs energy, I tested these in water jugs and the expansion was awesome. Just for the record, the 40 S&W has a one shot stop record of 96%, the 45 ACP is at 93%. When it comes to barrier penetration such as auto glass, the 40 S&W 155 and 165 grain loads are superior to the 45 due to the extra velocity, about 200-300 fps faster.:p
If those thugs were doped up drugs, then even a 45 would have been unlikely to stop them with just one shot.
November 21, 2006, 11:47 PM
I've had my Taurus PT140 Milennium Pro (the DAO version) for just over a year and a half now. I love it. It feels good in my hand, is comfortable to shoot (the 9mm should be even more comfortable when shot- you can probably shoot it all day, something you can't say about all small CCW pistols), it seems very well made, it is accurate and it is reliable. If they stuck with the DAO I'd definately buy another but in 9mm, however I'm not sure I like the idea of having two of the same gun with two different manuals of arms.
November 22, 2006, 06:17 PM
I'm thinking about buying the PT140. Is there an advantage of getting either the DA/SA or DAO?
November 22, 2006, 08:30 PM
Love mine. Flawless performance, excellent feel, good accuracy. This gun is by far the best buy I have ever found on a handgun.
Redneck with a 40
November 22, 2006, 11:47 PM
I prefer the DAO version, same trigger pull for every shot, plus a restrike capability on a dud primer ( happened to me last saturday at the range). I pulled the trigger again and the round went off. The trigger is a little stiff and gritty when the gun is new, but after 500 rounds, mine really smoothed out. Plus I feel that the DAO is safer to carry, even with the safety off. I don't like going from a single action first shot to double action on subsequent shots, trigger pull changes.
November 23, 2006, 12:40 AM
I have 3 of the New SA/DA models... Bought them together as a Package Deal:
- No Rails
- Same trigger pull for every shot
- Re-strike capability on a dud primer
- SMOOOOOOOTH trigger
- No Ambi (thank goodness - I HATE Ambi's - they get in the way ;-)
- All Shoot to POA out to 15 yds (not checked beyond that)
- NO FTF, NO FTE, NO FT-anything-at-all
- Lightweight
- Great Capacity
and best of all... WELL UNDER $300 for each!
patriarch 2
November 23, 2006, 03:56 PM
November 23, 2006, 09:14 PM
I have the PT111 about a year old with three dot sights, I have put about 500 rnds of Rem. 115gr.FMJ's and 100 rnds of CorBon DPX's through it and Have had no problems at all with it , It is my every day carry in a IWB Tuck or a Day Planer.
November 23, 2006, 09:58 PM
I think Taurus refers to it as SA/DA to distinguish it from the traditional hammer drop DA first shot, SA followup guns since its always SA unless the primer fails to go, then it reverts to DA. Dubious feature as tap-rack-back should be the proper response if you get click instead of bang.
You say it's essentially always in SA mode. Does that mean you have to carry cocked and locked like a 1911? Or can you carry hammer-down/safety on and then cock them hammer when you feel like?
Redneck with a 40
November 24, 2006, 12:28 AM
Directed to Patriarch:
I can recall a story a few years back that I read about in a gun magazine..went something like this. A Texas state trooper was attempting to pull over a renegade 18 wheeler, the trooper and his partner finally cornered the 18 wheeler, driver would not come out, started waving a shotgun around. The troopers opened fire, one with a 45 ACP, the other with a 357 Sig. Four rounds of 45 ACP were unable to incapacitate the perp through the windshield, ONE round of 357 Sig punched through the windshield and ended the threat.
I'm not bashing the 45, but some people advocate it as being the be all and end all in calibers, I have to raise my BS flag! If the 45 is so great, why was the 40 S&W created and why was it adopted by hundreds of police depts? Its been the most successfull cartridge introduction in modern times. If the 9mm was so great, why was the 357 Sig created? The 357 Sig has superior performance to the 9mm.
If your trying to make me doubt my choice of 40 S&W caliber as a defense handgun, good luck....aint gonna happen!:p I've done enough research to know that the 40 is a solid performer.
There will always be failures with any caliber in street scenario's, nothing is perfect. I've read about more than a few failures of the 357 mag 125 grain to stop perps, that doesn't make me doubt its effectiveness.
November 24, 2006, 12:55 AM
You say it's essentially always in SA mode. Does that mean you have to carry cocked and locked like a 1911? Or can you carry hammer-down/safety on and then cock them hammer when you feel like?
The Millennium series doesn't have a "hammer", so there is nothing to cock, it's ready to rock and roll when you rack the slide.
Do you have to carry it with the safety on?..........Nope.
Should you carry it with the safety on?................Probably :D
November 24, 2006, 01:02 AM
Does it have a decocker?
November 24, 2006, 01:04 AM
No decocker.
November 24, 2006, 01:15 AM
Would be nice if it did though.........:)
November 24, 2006, 01:27 AM
So basically you cannot carry it chambered but not cocked.
November 24, 2006, 02:20 AM
I've had mine for about six months now and I LOVE IT. I think its the perfect pistol if your looking for something compact, accurate and reliable. As weird as it sounds the Millenium pro .45 is actually light than the 9mm. It has never jammed, but you gotta keep in mind that it need cleaning every about 250 rounds. Again accuracy is great as someone mentioned above, probably goes back to its low recoil, so you can get good aim one handed. If you got 1 in the chamber your ready to go, so keeping it on saftey is a good idea, otherwise your just a cock away...that sounded wierd, but you get the point.
Finally, the best part is if you buy it new, it has a life time warranty.
Hope this helps.
November 24, 2006, 08:54 AM
I don't have the DA/SA model, but as soon as I can get my wife a keltec and get that milpro away from her, it will replace my 605 revolver as my carry piece. It's a great gun, and I do like the fact it has a safety, because even though it's DAO, the trigger is still very light. It's a great buy.
November 24, 2006, 09:11 AM
I've tried the SA/DA Mil Pro in dry fire at the shop and it seemed to me (in a rather limited trial) that the trigger is just as long as the DAO. It has a lot of take up as the travel is the same length, it's just a lot lighter. If this is true, while I wouldn't recommend carrying a SA pistol without the thumb safety engaged you could possibly get away with carrying without the safety and relying on the long trigger (Glock has a long but light trigger pull and kind of relies on the same thing)- if you do this though, be sure to get a good holster that covers the trigger. Actually, the SA feature of the new guns is why I won't buy one. I have the DAO which I refuse to use the thumb safety on, it would be unsafe to have two guns with a different MOA in the same design- one of which I could use without the safety and one of which I'd need to engage the safety (I would not feel safe using a SA pistol without the safety engaged, longish trigger pull and good holster or not).
November 24, 2006, 09:54 AM
I am in no way knocking the quality or reliability of the Taurus PT pistols, but when you chamber a round in the newer, so called SA/DA pistols you are holding a striker fired, fully cocked pistol with no way of decocking it other than by pulling the trigger!
There is no way I'm carrying around a single action, FULLY cocked, striker fired pistol!
When I purchased my PT111 PRO, it was listed a DA/SA. Well, it isn't DA/SA, once you chamber a round, it's always cocked and is always in SA action mode without a decocker and all shots will be single action unless you have a misfire!
I would have felt much better about carrying it with a round in the chamber, if it was DA only, but since it is not, it's gone bye, bye!
November 24, 2006, 10:22 AM
When I purchased my PT111 PRO, it was listed a DA/SA. Well, it isn't DA/SA, once you chamber a round, it's always cocked and is always in SA action mode without a decocker and all shots will be single action unless you have a misfire!
This is a source of concern for me as well because I'm a southpaw and the safety on the 140 isn't especially lefty-friendly so I doubt I'd be using it. So if I use a Mil-Pro that means I'm looking at trusting the trigger and the automatic interrupter safety built into the pistol to keep that striker from doing anything it shouldn't.
Wish they'd make the PT140 Mil-Pro in DAO or with a decocker :banghead:
November 24, 2006, 10:38 AM
My PT-145 Millennium Pro has sent over 2000 rounds downrange and has yet to have any problems. Accuracy, right out of the box, just blew me away. It fits my large hands perfectly. I can drop it into a front pocket of my trousers, it disappears, and is not overly heavy there. I carry it daily that way in slacks at the office and have never been "made" by either of the two off duty police officers that are working for me. When one of them saw my CHL, he remarked "I think that if you have a CHL it's a shame that you don't carry concealed". I then pulled out the little Taurus and he was amazed that I had it there and he never noticed it. Both of them now carry PT-145's as off duty BUG's.
You could say my Millennium Pro is my everything, everywhere and everyday gun!!!
patriarch 2
November 24, 2006, 10:46 AM
November 24, 2006, 10:51 AM
I am in no way knocking the quality or reliability of the Taurus PT pistols, but when you chamber a round in the newer, so called SA/DA pistols you are holding a striker fired, fully cocked pistol with no way of decocking it other than by pulling the trigger!
There is no way I'm carrying around a single action, FULLY cocked, striker fired pistol!
When I purchased my PT111 PRO, it was listed a DA/SA. Well, it isn't DA/SA, once you chamber a round, it's always cocked and is always in SA action mode without a decocker and all shots will be single action unless you have a misfire!
That's a shame. I was really thinking about getting a SA/DA PT111. But like you, there is no way I am carrying a chambered and cocked pistol with no way of deactivating it without firing. It's really hard to find a small little pistol that still behaves like a standard DA/SA pistol with a manual safety. I have a Walther P22, and it would be the perfect gun for me if it was in 9mm. It's small, light, has an ambi manual safety, the hammer and safety are not connected like my Ruger P345, and it looks neat, unlike a lot of stubby looking subcompact. What can I say, to me, the look of a gun is important. And I just can't stand awkward looking boxy guns like Glocks and XDs or guns with stubby grips. That P22 is perfect other than it being a .22
November 24, 2006, 10:54 AM
Patriarch, welcome to The High Road(as a poster) :) But could you please not shout(typing in caps)? We can read normal text just fine :)
November 24, 2006, 12:06 PM
I hope you guys who are afraid of the SA/DA Taurus guns are equally fearfull of the Glock. At least the Taurus has a trigger blocking thumb safety that will make you feel better as long as you are a righty.
November 24, 2006, 12:11 PM
DRMMRO2--That's a shame. I was really thinking about getting a SA/DA PT111. But like you, there is no way I am carrying a chambered and cocked pistol with no way of deactivating it without firing.
Actually you can deactivate it by dropping the magazine and then racking the slide to eject the round in the chamber, but that's kind of a lot of work.
I hope you guys who are afraid of the SA/DA Taurus guns are equally fearfull of the Glock. At least the Taurus has a trigger blocking thumb safety that will make you feel better as long as you are a righty.
Since I don't own a Glock, I can't speak with authority, but when I shot my Son's Glock, I thought the trigger was safer!
Is the Glock fully cocked when a round is chambered?
Maybe someone that knows more about the Glock trigger will chime in.
Maybe Taurus will get the message and add a decocker.
November 24, 2006, 12:16 PM
There is no way I'm carrying around a single action, FULLY cocked, striker fired pistol!
That's why I have the DAO PT-745. I have NO idea why Taurus changed the design. Especially since when riding in a Smartcarry, the side safety can get snapped down. There's no way I'd carry a cocked pistol like that!
I'd say if you see the DAOs anywhere, pick them up...they're likely to get more valuable as people realize this. They can also use Trijicon sights that the newer design can't. It's a "***, Taurus?", to me.
November 24, 2006, 12:47 PM
I hope you guys who are afraid of the SA/DA Taurus guns are equally fearfull of the Glock. At least the Taurus has a trigger blocking thumb safety that will make you feel better as long as you are a righty.
Taurus, Glock, Springfield XD-40... I've been having the same mental issue with all of the (having a cocked striker pin).
Think I'll start a different thread on this though and stop hijacking this one.
November 24, 2006, 01:03 PM
Shooting my son's Glock, I thought the trigger was safer!
How so?
Is the Glock fully cocked when a round is chambered?
Depenidng on your definition of "fully" probalby not, but I claim the difference is only academic otherwise swapping the trigger connectors wouldn't make near as much difference in a Glock as it does. I don't think there is anything worth argueing about between my stock Glock trigger and the SA/DA Taurus trigger, but I'd argue since I've put in the 3.5lb connectors my Glocks are not safe to carry, although they are seriously better at the range. Glock will not sell the 3.5lb connectors, you need to get them from a third party maker or by buying one of their "Target" model guns.
All these modern guns have passed various "drop tests". The Glock's main weakness is that its easy to fire if foreign objects press against the trigger -- some holsters have been recalled because the retaining strap can enter the trigger gaurd and fire the gun during holstering. The XD added a grip safety to need a two direction press to pull the trigger, but I'd bet you'd really have to think about it to not activate it when reholstering. The Taurus DAO have all had the thumb safety and its been retained on the SA/DA models but its not very useful for lefities. I wished they had an ambi-option. Taurus has a bewildering array of models and options, if enough people write to ask for a de-cocker or ambi safety I'd not be surprised if one appeared on later guns.
November 24, 2006, 02:14 PM
I am in no way knocking the quality or reliability of the Taurus PT pistols, but when you chamber a round in the newer, so called SA/DA pistols you are holding a striker fired, fully cocked pistol with no way of decocking it other than by pulling the trigger!
There is no way I'm carrying around a single action, FULLY cocked, striker fired pistol!
When I purchased my PT111 PRO, it was listed a DA/SA. Well, it isn't DA/SA, once you chamber a round, it's always cocked and is always in SA action mode without a decocker and all shots will be single action unless you have a misfire!
I would have felt much better about carrying it with a round in the chamber, if it was DA only, but since it is not, it's gone bye, bye!
No offense kokapelli but that has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
What do you think a Glock or an XD are?
And the MilPro has a Safey INCLUDED!
Keep your finger OFF OF THE TRIGGER and you have No Issues.
The New Taurus MilPro SA/DA Series is QUITE safe if You are.
November 24, 2006, 02:23 PM
What do you think a Glock or an XD are?
And the MilPro has a Safey INCLUDED!
Keep your finger OFF OF THE TRIGGER and you have No Issues.
The New Taurus MilPro SA/DA Series is QUITE safe if You are.
I've been looking at the diagrams for a Mil-Pro. Here's what I can't figure out from looking at it... Is the firing pin interrupter deactivated by the safety or by the trigger (I.E. if you had a round chambered but manual safety off is the secondary firing pin interrupter still in place?)
November 24, 2006, 02:28 PM
if you had a round chambered but manual safety off is the secondary firing pin interrupter still in place?
YES - the firing pin block makes the gun drop-safe.
You MUST PULL THE TRIGGER in order for it to fire.
SAFETY ON - You can not pull the trigger.
FINGER OFF OF THE TRIGGER - You can not pull the trigger.
November 24, 2006, 02:32 PM
The Millennium Pro has several built-in safety features. It is of a single action/double action striker fired design, and has an internal firing pin block that prevents the gun from firing unless the trigger is pulled. This is the primary safety, and all that is necessary. However, in addition to that, the gun has a manual thumb safety that is easily accessible to a right-handed shooter, if he so chooses to engage that safety mechanism.
November 24, 2006, 02:36 PM
Whoops, you answered my question while I was typing. Thank you for patiently clarifying that point. It's really hard to tell when all you have in front of you is a crappy .PDF diagram :banghead:
November 24, 2006, 05:18 PM
I don't have a Glock, but I do have an XD-9.
If the trigger on the XD catches on something it still will not fire without the grip safety being depressed.
This may sound dumb too, but I'm not at all impressed with the small, hard to find external safety on the PRO. It's just another motion required to get the gun into action and can be easily, accidently clicked off when reholstering!
I replaced my PRO with a CZ PCR and much prefer the decocker arrangement.
We all must find what works best for us and I am much happier with the PCR in feel, accuracy and especially the trigger.
Oh! I almost forgot. The sights on the PCR are much, much better for me and my 74year old eyes.
patriarch 2
November 26, 2006, 02:54 PM
November 26, 2006, 02:59 PM
WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING?:eek:
November 29, 2006, 11:37 AM
This pistol is my primary CC piece and I LOVE it.No issues with function after close to 1000 rounds through it in 2 mos.Fit and function are as good as it gets -IMHO- in a compact .45 It travels nicely in a leather Blackhawk CQC compact Askins holster and has a back up High Noon IWB holster carried SOB.
Taurus just keeps on getting it right.
I am still looking for a good compact slide holster for it so any help is appreciated.
Ukraine Train
December 14, 2006, 07:02 PM
So, you guys that carry carry an SA/DA with a round chambered, do you keep the safety on? Right now I carry a DA/SA gun and I'm comfortable having the safety off with it only half cocked, but I guess in SA the Tauri should still be safe as long as you don't pull the trigger, due to the firing pin block.
December 14, 2006, 07:06 PM
The SA/DA trigger in my PT111 PRO is one of the reasons I got rid of that pistol.
December 14, 2006, 10:31 PM
Was given a .40 Millennium Pro., made two range visits so far.
Good points: has worked perfectly though the 200round break in (3 boxes of PMC "Bronze" and one of WW Silvertips), accurate, not uncomfortable recoil.
Bad points: feels a bit top heavy, SA trigger pull feels "mushy".
Suspected Bad Points:
The loaded chamber indicator is a needless complication of a simple design...it does nothing worthwild and may become a proablem once it breaks (and I believe it will be a case of "once it breaks" rahter than "if it breaks").
Larger hands will find the trigger-to-grip distance at firing a bit short.
Kind of irlks me...it has a DA triger pull, but there isn't any good way to use it unless you have a missfire. If you get a round into the chamber, the trigger is set for SA...no way to dcock it, so it seems chamber-loaded-DA-pull is just not possible.
(OK...there is a way to do it, but it breaks one of the "unbreakable cardinal rules" of handgunning...so (1) I won't do it and (2) it would be better to not illustrate how it's done.)
December 14, 2006, 11:38 PM
(OK...there is a way to do it, but it breaks one of the "unbreakable cardinal rules" of handgunning...so (1) I won't do it and (2) it would be better to not illustrate how it's done.)
No need to break any rules ... just buy a DAO version. ;)
December 15, 2006, 01:25 AM
A chance to use a pic.
And to add something useful, I just bought an earlier Millenium and had to send it back to Taurus for the cracked frame. I will let you know how their service goes.
December 15, 2006, 02:08 AM
Have a PT111 Mil/pro and it has over 4500 rounds through it without a bobble. Since most of the new designs (Glock,XD,WaltherP99 etc.) have similar actions or firing designs and are safe to carry with a round in the chamber.For those who have Taurus pistols or revolvers, go on over to www.unitedforums.com and check out the Taurus Forum. Just another place and haven for Taurus owners.
December 15, 2006, 06:59 AM
Would have if I were buying it...but this one was a gift, and it's going to have to stay for that reason alone. Have other guns I can carry for "real", this one will be a safe queen.
December 15, 2006, 10:23 AM
If you have a Glock in your hand and pull the trigger it goes bang. Same with the XD. The MilPro will not do that unless the manual safety is deactivated. Plus, it still has the internal drop safety similiar to the XD.
There is no safety difference between carrying a MilPro with one in the chamber and the safety on, than carrying a 1911 cocked and locked.
December 15, 2006, 12:46 PM
If you have a Glock in your hand and pull the trigger it goes bang. Same with the XD. The MilPro will not do that unless the manual safety is deactivated. Plus, it still has the internal drop safety similiar to the XD.
There is no safety difference between carrying a MilPro with one in the chamber and the safety on, than carrying a 1911 cocked and locked.
You forgot to mention that the XD has a grip safety that the Taurus and Glock does not have.
I found the safety on my PT111 to small an to flat to find fast and easily.
December 15, 2006, 12:55 PM
There was no reason to mention the XD grip safety. If you hold it in your hand and pull the trigger, it goes bang. Grip safety or no grip safety.
December 15, 2006, 12:58 PM
True, but the grip saftey means the pistol will not fire if the trigger gets caught on something.
December 15, 2006, 04:14 PM
I still see the trigger getting caught and an XD firing due to user error. I see this happening during holstering. You're probably going to have a grip on pistol with the backstrap safety pushed in. It takes forethought to actually holster an XD and NOT do that. Are you going to have that forethought in a bad situation?
Which pretty much seems to strengthen the fact that a MilPro with it's safety on is safer than the Glock or the XD.
Then again, if a shooter can't holster an XD without the forethought of the backstrap safety then that shooter is probably enough of a bonehead to forget to engage the manual safety on a MilPro...
Make something idiot proof and they'll make a better idiot.
SSN Vet
December 15, 2006, 05:08 PM
There is no safety difference between carrying a MilPro with one in the chamber and the safety on, than carrying a 1911 cocked and locked.
Bing Bing Bing Bing !!!!!!! The winner of the argument!
Make something idiot proof and they'll make a better idiot.
Now THAT'S funny....
of course, with my background.....we called it Sailor-proof!
December 26, 2006, 08:23 PM
I went to pick up my pt-145 today but had to wait bcuz I had to get a purchase permit and that office is closed till the 2nd (my CPL gets approved on the 9th, God willing). anyways while there holding my perty lil pistola I looked at a pt-140 that was also there. I got to thinkin....why not get the .40 rather than the .45??? I have an XD40 service and love it. so it came to me, why not the mil pro in the same caliber as my XD...?
so my question to u fine folks is...what would you do? I know a lot of it boils down to personal preference, but still what are some plus & minuses?
December 26, 2006, 11:15 PM
I picked up a used PT111 MilPro a few months back. It was an impulse buy. I looked in the case and said to myself "what the heck is that?" and the second I held it I was in love. The gun just felt right. It has some holster wear and was priced at just a hair over $200 so I bought it without knowing much more. When I followed up on the Net I was at first shocked at the earlier problems with the gun but was immediately relieved when I found out that all problems had been corrected with the MilPro version.
The first time to the range the gun performed flawlessly with Winchester Wally World White Box and a quick load of my defense round, Federal Hydra Shoks. While 9mm is usually my sporting round with .40 S&W or .45 my defense round, the smooth DA only trigger, surprising accuracy, low recoil and quick follow-up moved this up to being my car gun (Georgia Peaceable Journey Statute). When I soon have my CCL the MilPro will go up against a HK USP Compact .40 for carry gun, and the MilPro may well get the nod. The safety and DA only trigger are two features that make the piece especially attractive. Accuracy seems to increase with more rapid extended fire. The size, accuracy, quick follow-up and low recoil make this a tough gun to beat. Overall, this is one of the best guns going, and when you consider value it is almost unbeatable.
Knowing what I know of Taurus from having one of the first PT92s produced years ago, and this little gun, the other guns in my lineup (which include Walther, Sig, Beretta, HK, Steyr) are in very good company. One of my first purchases of 07 will be a MilPro in .45 if I can find one without the rail, DA only, and all black.
To some the name Taurus carries a certain stigma. Forget about it.
December 27, 2006, 04:08 AM
800 rounds through my DAO PT-111 Pro in 9mm without a single failure. Feeds everything reliably, and very accurate for a gun its size. I trust my life with it, and believe me for me to trust a Taurus as a SD pistol it had to really blow me away. Great little gun, that's really got no competition when you consider the features and price.
I love it.
January 2, 2007, 06:36 PM
alright I got my 3rd gen. mil pro PT-145SS and so far I'm in love with it, even though I have yet to take it out for the first "test drive" at the range (plan to run about 200 rounds this weekend). so far I have 2 questions about ammo and a holster.
1) what do you suggest for a CCW round for this pistol? so far I'm looking at either -HST Federal Premium law enforcement 230gr. $28 for a pack of 50
-Winchester Ranger law enforcement $25 for 50
~any other suggestions are welcome and how is the price for that ammo?
2) I'm looking at getting a leather clip on holster to wear IWB. so far I got my eye on a don humme holster that will run $35. I forget the model number but to is molded with no thumb break. runs like $27 on their site. any suggestions there on price and other holsters is more than welcome.
***i'll give a range report after I shoot the initial run. I'm hoping this baby lives up to all the positive hype....
January 3, 2007, 09:50 PM
I ordered a Don Hume PCCH for mine. I read a good review on the PCCH for the 145. I have my loaded with HydraShocks currently, but am looking at trying something else. Where are you purchasing the Rangers?
January 4, 2007, 09:34 PM
ok, i couldnt wait till the weekend and went out to the range today. i just got back and the PT145Pro shot GREAT!!! i did 100 rounds of Magtech 230gr. ammo and there were no FTF, FTE, or light primer strikes. whenever i pulled the trigger this lil hand cannon went BANG. recoil on the PT145Pro is easy to manage as others have stated and my hand didnt feel tired from shooting at all. i noticed that a couple times when i put a full magazine in after slide lock that the slide released own its on, the gun ran fine though and i didnt chalk it up to a problem (only happened 2x).
i spoke to one of the employees there about the gun having light primer stikes before on WWB and he stated that the mil pros that came before used to have that problem, but that those they have sold lately have been great and he was saying that they expect for the price to increase on the entire line over the next year or so. he also showed me a nice lil trick to test a pistols primer strikes for weakness. basically take a pencil and and drop the eraser end down the barrel of your gun (unloaded gun of course). hold the gun with the barrel pointed towards the ceiling and pull the trigger, the strike should be strong enough to make the pencil pop out of the barrel pretty high and out of the barrel completely. if you dont get that then you likely have a weak primer.
all in all im very satisfied thus far with this gun. i still want to put about 200 more rounds through it and about 100 rounds of CCW ammo before i say its totally broken in for me. but as far as reliability goes, its 100% at this early stage. oh yeah...field stripping is very easy, almost as easy as my XD (just one more step). this is a simple gun and a great addition to have.
January 5, 2007, 05:17 PM
I just ordered a Mil Pro PT145 today from Gander Mountain. I have some gift cards from Crhistams, and some extra cash so... Anyway, I like the design of the gun and it looks like it'll be a great carry weapon. My house gun is a Ruger P90 and I like having two guns of the same caliber. Gun should be in in a week or two.
Can the straight 8 sights be replaced with a three dot design?
January 5, 2007, 08:30 PM
I have a Don Hume IWB holster without thumb break and it is awesome. The model I have was @27 also though I can't remember the model number. Here are 2 pics in regards to concealability.
Todd, the sights can't be replaced yet that I know of. They take some getting used to but here's a thread of how you should be aiming with them. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=242415
January 6, 2007, 02:11 AM
thanks for the pics shawdowbob. i actually ordered that holster (H715-M W.C.) from gunnersalley but they emailed me today and said that it isnt in stock, and don hume wont have any for about 3 to 4 weeks. luckily the gunshop that i got my pt145pro had one in, so i will likely go get it from there (its about 10 more though :rolleyes: ). i got to have it, when i tested it there it was NICE and i didnt buy it then because i wasnt sold on it just yet, but now...I WANT IT!!! im a big guy and it wears very well, makes the pt145pro just dissapear into my fat...lol:p
thanks for the link to on the sights....that is right on time. seems like we had the same problem with the shooting low up and down at about 7 yards.
January 6, 2007, 08:23 AM
My PT145 MilPro is a keeper. I was a bit apprehensive about the DA trigger but it is nice, kinda long take up but then breaks cleanly.
January 29, 2007, 11:58 PM
I had to get in on this thread, long time reader and finally had to register on this thread. Anyways, I love this gun, I ran out and bought it after reading a review on how the military was testing it. Anyways I get to the store and all they had was the SA/DA no DAO's with the MilPro. Had to have it anyways. It started to really bug me that the striker was cocked and no decock, I do not want to carry a gun with the safety on in a critical situation, I just dont know how I will perfrom in a critical situation even with tons of practice. Anyways carrying an SA/DA gun cocked is not an option, so I started playing with the gun and found you can pull the slide back 1/2 inch squeez the trigger (always in a safe direction) and ride the striker forward. Not sure what you guys will think of this. To me it is no different that decocking a SA revolver except it is safer. Let me explain. With the slide back .5 inch you have the striker spring compressed and held by the slide so the striker cannot move, you also have the firing pin block engaged because the slide has to be all the way forward for the trigger to deactivate the firing pin block. I might get flamed for this but I have done this hundreds of times on the range to practice full pull first shots, this also lets me carry the gun decocked safety off. To my knowledge there is no MilPro PT145 anymore in DAO only. Please correct me if this exist. I have noticed that the striking force is different between SA and DA and you can try this with a common plastic ball point pen in the barrel pointed up. I am extremely curious how my gun compares in SA mode to the striker force of the DAO. The only way I can account for this different is that in SA the strikker is approx 1/8 of an inch farther back on the latch then where it is released with the second strike feature. Regardless it has never not gone bang. Anyways there is my first post, flame suit on.
January 30, 2007, 08:32 AM
i had the dao version of the pt111 mil pro. i just traded it in for a glock 19. i was looking for a range/idpa gun and the loooong trigger pull just wasn't making my shooting any better. i liked the gun and used it for concealed carry until i got my mustang. so, now, i just don't have any use for it and traded it in.
January 30, 2007, 09:51 AM
i still don't get it about the long trigger pull, whether SA/DA or DAO. if you are using the trigger reset method of shooting then it doesnt really matter after your first shot anyways. the PT145PRO has a very short trigger reset, even shorter than my XD which i love. so maybe you should try doing the trigger reset and not letting your finger travel all the way back, it makes a world of difference when you do this...trust me. trigger reset is how i was taught to shoot and i do it with every semi-auto that i shoot. give it a try.
February 1, 2007, 02:35 PM
Last night I became the proud owner of a PT145 Pro 3rd gen and I am loving the little thing so far. Put 50 rounds through her before dusk last night and had not a single issue, :) And what a muzzle flash :evil:
February 2, 2007, 02:57 AM
And what a muzzle flash
LOL You know it! I acquired a used PT-145 and took it to an indoor range with dim lighting
Wow! Everyone there was suitably impressed. I was shooting CCI Blazer Brass
I love this little gun My G-30 has some competition now.
February 2, 2007, 11:31 AM
Trigger reset was how I was taught also. Have a PT111 Mil/pro. The DAO trigger has been easy to learn and use. That little pistol has gien sterling service and will gobble up any ammo it has been given. Time for an update folks and several posters here already are aware and made the change already. Taurusforum.com at www.unitedfroums.com no longer exists. The owner wiped the slate clean and dumped everything there and no one will be able to use it ever again. We old members were made aware of this a month or so ago of the demise. Flyer, a member of the old site, created the replacement Taurus forum www.taurusarmed.net , which has expanded greatly compared to the old defunct place. Much nicer place than the old one. Many members here are also at the new site. There is even a new Rossi board for those folk as well as a board for other types and makes of firearms. So check it out . Taurus got it right with the 24/7 series and any of the Millenium series. We who have them know better than some of the "conventional wisdom" that is out there. Oh, yes. Trolls and bashers need not apply. Any well thought out fact or opinion is allowed. Just back up what is said with facts. Makes it easier for everone concerned.:)
February 2, 2007, 08:35 PM
I like the forum link, nice. I was reading an article about the .45 version developed for the military to test. It features a da/sa version with a safety and a decock on a striker fired pistol. Also the safety can be on and not decock the pistol which some might perfer. If they produce this for the public put me number 1 on the waiting list. I mentioned in a previous post how to decock the da/sa version but this would be a great seller.
February 3, 2007, 01:17 AM
That's why I like the article in the NRA's American Rifleman. No nonsense and straight forward appraisal. Best article seen to date. No cliches and other garbage cluttering up the eval of the pistol. Enjoy the forum.
February 3, 2007, 01:34 AM
Happy with mine. Not my primary carry piece, but shoots well, is smooth & reliable, easy to conceal.
February 3, 2007, 09:41 AM
I have tried Dave's suggestion (pasted below) more than once -- and I very much like it!
I suppose it would be possible to have a discharge, but if you are prepared for it, it would neither be accidental or negligent.
I plan on carrying my 3rd generation PT145 with the safety off and the first shot Double Action. Until Dave's suggestion I thought that this was not a possibility.
Thanks, Dave, I'm surprized that there have been no other replies to your message.
I apoligise if I did not reference Dave's message correctly. I could not figure out how to do it otherwise.
MESSAGE FROM: 03fomoco (Dave)
It started to really bug me that the striker was cocked and no decock, I do not want to carry a gun with the safety on in a critical situation, I just dont know how I will perfrom in a critical situation even with tons of practice. Anyways carrying an SA/DA gun cocked is not an option, so I started playing with the gun and found you can pull the slide back 1/2 inch squeez the trigger (always in a safe direction) and ride the striker forward. Not sure what you guys will think of this. To me it is no different that decocking a SA revolver except it is safer. Let me explain. With the slide back .5 inch you have the striker spring compressed and held by the slide so the striker cannot move, you also have the firing pin block engaged because the slide has to be all the way forward for the trigger to deactivate the firing pin block. I might get flamed for this but I have done this hundreds of times on the range to practice full pull first shots, this also lets me carry the gun decocked safety off.
February 3, 2007, 10:17 AM
IMO - As an Instructor, a Safety Officer and a Dealer - daves suggestion is both Dangerous and Foolish.
A decocker is designed to safely de-cock a DA/SA pistol - the move listed below is NOT.
Carrying a SA/DA loaded, safety on is how this firearm is designed to be carried, much like a 1911. If you are uncomfortable carrying this way you have two choices:
1) Carry with an empty chamber and rack the slide when the need arises - SAFE but time-sensitive...
2) Find another preferred carry weapon.
IMO - this is a ND just waithng to happen.
Be Safe!
February 3, 2007, 10:24 AM
That method for decocking a Taurus PRO series, DA/SA pistol was posted on the "Taurus Talk" board some time ago.
When I still had my PT111 PRO, I tried decocking it without a round chambered and it worked some of the time, but not all the time.
IMO, you're asking for trouble decocking a pistol using that method!
Seems to me that if that was a safe way of decocking, Taurus would have recommended it
The PRO series is meant to be carried cocked and locked.
I agree were TC-TX says,
"1) Carry with an empty chamber and rack the slide when the need arises - SAFE but time-sensitive...
2) Find another preferred carry weapon."
February 3, 2007, 10:28 AM
The PRO series is meant to be carried cocked and locked.
Precisely... Well said :) :)
February 3, 2007, 10:09 PM
I figured some would not agree, lets look at a few things. With the slide back more than about 3/16" the striker block is engaged and cannot be disengaged because the slide has to be all the way forward for the trigger to deactivate it. This is no different than decocking an sa revolver. This is the same device that prevents the gun from firing on the decockable OSS version. My problem with a striker fired pistol is that I am an active person (hiking, camping, hunting) and with an IWB holster if I ever pulled a cocked and locked striker fired gun out and the safety was off (by my own fault or accidentally) it would probably bother me to the point of never carrying that gun again IWB. It is only a matter of time until the MILPRO that was tested for the military which can be carried both cocked and locked and decocked safety on or off shows up in the compact version. It will be a huge seller for the striker fire market and I will be the first one on the list to order one. Locally I have had instructors that were impressed with the idea and others that have chewed my head off, so nothing will really get solved in this thread or on the internet, I just wanted to put the info out there. Some people choose to perform there own gun modifications with third party parts to me that is crazy so to each his own. I do know that a decocked striker fired gun would be next to impossible to discharge no matter what broke or failed.
February 3, 2007, 10:32 PM
Dave - it is an UNSAFE practice AND it is a ND just waiting to happen.
It is NOT the way the gun was designed to operate and would never be supported by its manufacturer.
I would NEVER advocate anyone performing this procedure with a loaded weapon. You should not either, as Bad Advice tends to find its way back to the source when things go wrong.
I will toss anyone from my range AND my classroom if I see them attempt this unsound and unSAFE maneuver in my presence.
Above All - Be Safe.
Taurus92 in KyleTX
February 6, 2007, 03:07 PM
I just posted this over on the taurusarmed.net boards, but figured I'd increase my chances to get an answer...
I love just about everything, concerning my recent PT-111 Pro purchase.
The one thing that is really eating at me is the gap between the magazine base (extended finger rest style) and the the grip. And, I seem to have the issue with either of the two magazines that came with the pistol.
There is about a millimeter separation that, after every shot, pinches my pinky finger, when the next round is stripped from the magazine.
My questions are:
1) Does anybody else have this issue with the magazine pinching your finger?
2) Is this a manufacturing spec that is fairly loose?
3) Any ideas for correcting this besides changing the magazine base (or not using my pinky finger to grip)?
My only thought has been to place a rubber band around the magazine just above the base to dampen the pinching. But, my worry is doing so will impact the ability to feed the next round.
I appreciate any advice on this.
February 6, 2007, 05:14 PM
I don't have my PRO anymore, but here is a picture of it and you can see the gap.
It never bothered me.
Is the gap on yours bigger than this?
February 6, 2007, 05:18 PM
Please, Dave, this is no flame.
Folks, PLEASE listen to TC-TX. The pistol is NOT meant to be operated in this fashion.
I am no gunsmith, but if it were meant to be it would be written in the owners manual. IT IS NOT.
This is trouble waiting to happen, and it is trouble you can avoid. Everyone here is to smart for that.
Taurus92 in KyleTX
February 6, 2007, 06:29 PM
that looks about comparable to mine. thanks for the pic for visual aide!
guess I'll just have to develop a callus, unless somebody has any suggestions. :o
February 9, 2007, 02:19 AM
OK i registered just because people were driving me crazy with their replies like 'No way am I carrying this sa/da cocked'.
Look with the DAO when you pull the trigger it cocks and drops the firing pin.
With the SA/DA when you pull the trigger it drops the cocked firing pin.
You notice the only thing different that happens between the two with a trigger pull is the DAO cocks the pin then drops it. So the only argument is your afraid that the pin is going to drop via some other method than a trigger pull since a trigger pull on both achieves the same thing.
But guess whaaaaatt, they BOTH have a firing pin block that is only dis-engaged with a pull of the trigger. So the ONLY way that either of these are firing is with a pull of the trigger.
And if you mess up enough to fire a SA/DA by accidentally hitting the trigger, it is very likely going to be hard enough to fire the DAO as well.
So stop complaining about the SA/DA. PLEASEEE!!!
February 9, 2007, 09:02 AM
And if you mess up enough to fire a SA/DA by accidentally hitting the trigger, it is very likely going to be hard enough to fire the DAO as well.
That statement implies that the trigger pull required to fire a 1911 would be approximately the same as the trigger pull to fire a revolver and that's ridiculous!
Anyone that has DAO and a SA pistols knows that a single action pistol's trigger only needs to be moved a fraction of an inch to release the striker or hammer and that is usually a very light pull.
A DAO trigger usually has a heavier and much longer pull than a SA trigger and requires a very purposeful pull to fire it.
February 9, 2007, 09:49 AM
i took the day off and just came to browse and found this same old argument about SA vs DAO and safety. :barf: the thing that keeps getting me is that some people have the idea in their heads that guns are "safe" if you have certain safety features added to them. this is, IMHO, just plain crazy. a gun is a gun and not a toy, period. their very nature is NOT safe. its a useful tool that primarily fires bullets which sometimes cause very serious injury and/or take lives...not really a "safe" thing right.:eek:
when dealing with firearms one should just realise that you are dealing with a serious tool and you have to be serious 100% of the time when handling them. if you are that timid and cautious about carrying a loaded gun with one in the chamber...then my suggestions is that you simply just dont carry a loaded gun with one in the chamber. to have the belief that you may fire the gun by accident just because its SA its no more valid then the other.
both have an equal chance of going off by accident. sorry but guns are not fool proof. the best thing is to be totally mindful of what you have and the seriousness of the tool you are carrying. always treat a gun as loaded, either in a holster (that covers the trigger), a safe, or locked up. keep your finger off the trigger unless you are willing to shoot something. learn proper holstering techniques. learn proper drawing techniques.
once you have trained yourself, realize that you have to do the same things that you have trained EVERY time without fail. if not then you may just accidentaly discharge the firearm. its not going to go off by itself...its gonna take you and your momment of carelessness to get it done:banghead:
the bottom line is to remember that you have to handle a firearm properly 100% of the time without having a brain fart. it takes time and getting used to. you should never ever feel "safe" that some feature of your gun is gonna keep it from firing...NEVER!!!
ok, im good now...done venting...:D
February 9, 2007, 10:15 AM
That statement implies that the trigger pull required to fire a 1911 would be approximately the same as the trigger pull to fire a revolver and that's ridiculous!
Actually thats not what I'm trying to imply. I said IF you hit a trigger it is in all likeliness going to be hard enough to shoot the DAO trigger as well. I completely understand that the DAO takes more weight to pull but if you accidentally bump your trigger enough to set it off it isn't likely a light bump either way.
Just get a good holster to cover the trigger, use the manual safety, and take your time re-holstering. There is no problem with the SA/DA just the people who use them.
February 9, 2007, 10:20 AM
What makes a 3rd Generation a 3rd Generation?
February 9, 2007, 10:47 AM
The first generation Millenium had lots of teething problems and was superceded by the second generation, known as the "Millenium Pro". This model has a DAO trigger and an improved frame design. The third generation has the DA/SA trigger ala the 24/7 model.
My question is this: Why not just use the safety? Even the DAO model, like mine, has a very light trigger pull albeit long. I use the safety when there's one in the pipe myself.
February 9, 2007, 10:50 AM
The third gen is SA/DA rather than "DA/SA".:)
February 9, 2007, 11:07 AM
Thanks, that's what I meant to say :)
February 9, 2007, 11:23 AM
I'm new here and am looking to purchase a PT145 Millenium Pro. After reading comments in this thread about SA/DA, 2nd / 3rd generation, how do you tell the 3rd generation apart from the others?
Have seen one in a gun store with a two dot adjustable sight system but without the "Pro" after the word Millenium. Also have seen a 3 dot sight one that does have the word "Pro" after the word Millenium. Is this the difference between 2nd and 3rd generation PT145? Or what else should I look for?
Also, the one I saw with the words "Pro" on the left side was listed as a double action only. Is there one that is SA? If so, can someone tell me how this is supposed to work? Can't quite picture it as SA mode without an external hammer.
Thanks in advance for any info.
February 9, 2007, 11:57 AM
Only the 2nd and 3rd generations are Pro models. Don't get a non-Pro. Go to the taurus website for more info. ;)
February 9, 2007, 12:11 PM
Love it so far....
February 9, 2007, 12:19 PM
Why is it SA/DA instead of DA/SA? Isn't DA the first shot and SA every shot thereafter? What am I missing?
February 9, 2007, 02:22 PM
Jkwas, the third gen should have the word "Millenium" on one side of the slide and "PRO" with the model # on the other side of the slide.
Marshall, When you chamber a round in the third gen PRO series, racking the slide fully cocks the stiker and there is no decocker.
Don't get my other post wrong. I didn't mean to knock the PRO.
The PT111 PRO I had was 100% reliable, but it just was not a good fit for me.
February 9, 2007, 03:36 PM
the second gen will say millennium pro on left side. the third gen will just say millennium on the left and pro on the right after the model #... like PT111 Pro.
Also another very easy way to tell is the third gen will have a letter Z as either the first OR second character in the serial number.
From all I've read online the first gen (non pro) were complete junk. The second gen DAO were much better but still have their share of problems. And the third SA/DA gen has had very very little negative feedback. Actually most who shoot it fall in love with it and replace their CC.
February 9, 2007, 04:23 PM
Thanks to all for the information.
I have a PT-145 on hold at a local dealer and the serial number begins with "NZL" , and has just the wording "Millenium" on the left side, so I can safely assume this is a 3rd generation?
Guess I was confused by the picture of the PT 145 on the Taurus web site as the picture they have must be a 2nd generation picture. (http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=40&category=Pistol)
February 9, 2007, 06:11 PM
Yup definitely the third gen, I assume as well that the picture is old, as the general design hasn't changed, just some internal parts.
The Z is also a give away, according to taurus customer service it's the easiest way to tell them apart.
February 9, 2007, 06:16 PM
hcb42, good going with the new purchase. im sure that when you get it in your hand and fire some rounds you will be just as satisfied as the rest of us. WELCOME TO THE FAMILY!!! you can get more specific info on this lil hand cannons over at the new taurus forum, www.taurusarmed.net check it out...
from the description you gave it appears you do indeed have a 3rd Generation model. just to clarify, i believe that there are two 3rd generation models actually (one manufactured after 3/2006 approximately). the latest models have the SA/DA and heinie sights. just about all of them that you can find now will be the latest 3rd gen. and fairly easy to identify.
congrats and shoot safe...
February 9, 2007, 09:42 PM
I would purchase a pt-111, but I am left handed. Why no model with ambidextrous safety??:banghead:
February 9, 2007, 09:46 PM
No problems with mine . . . use it for a weak-side back-up or when attire prohibits adequately concealing my 1911.
February 12, 2007, 08:19 PM
Picked up my PT145 today and did a cleaning when I got home. Found barrel very dirty, rails without any lube, and what appeared to be more than a test firing black residue inside, and near ejector slot. Also front sight white dot didn't look uniform. The dealer said that's the way it came in. I called Taurus to complain about the conditon of the gun and received a cold resonse from customer care. Customer care said there should be packing lube on the gun and some residue from the test firing. Except, it appeared lacking any lube/oil of any kind. It just didn't look right as compared with two other pistols purchsed previously (both non Taurus). Anyone remember what condition their PT145 was in when received? In addtion the front sight, where mounted on the slide housing appeared to have a machining defect on the left side. Looks strange. Going to take it to a range and try it out tomorrow morning. (Taurus customer care when given the serial number told me this PT145 was manufactued exactly a month ago, and when it was shipped to a vendor.) Just wondering if others out there had questioned the conditon of theirs when received.
February 12, 2007, 09:05 PM
Why is it SA/DA instead of DA/SA? Isn't DA the first shot and SA every shot thereafter? What am I missing?
My understanding is that third gen is basically "single action with restrike capability".
Personally I think that is kind of odd but mine is a 2'nd gen with the DAO trigger which is my personal preference for regular carry especially since I'm a southpaw and really don't use the safety.
Oh and HCB42, my 2'nd gen PT-140 was EXTREMELY dirty around the ejector port (though strangely the barrel was shiny clean) and had little/no lube internally when I got it. No big deal to me as I consider all guns to be greased up for shipping NOT shooting so I detail strip everything, degrease it all, and re-lube with my preferred lubricants before it ever goes to the range.
February 12, 2007, 09:42 PM
...I consider all guns to be greased up for shipping NOT shooting so I detail strip everything, degrease it all, and re-lube with my preferred lubricants before it ever goes to the range.
Re quoted for truth! :)
February 13, 2007, 03:43 PM
First I woud like to say thank you for the responses to questions. The comments have been very helpful to me.
Picked up my PT 145 and fired off a box at a nearby range. I was impressed. The PT 145 is a nice gun for the money. I was consistently 1- 3 " of center. (Not the gun's fault.. mine as a newbie to pistols.. coming over from wheel guns.) Mine is a 3rd generation with DA/SA mentioned in the previous comments above. Once you pull the slide back and load a round it fires just like a SA with a very light pull, like the Ruger SP101 I have in SA mode. Even with the "three safety features" mentioned on the Taurus web site (manual safety lever, trigger block mechanism and a firing pin block) it's hard for me to imagine carrying the PT145 with a round loaded in the chamber for fear that a hard knock might set off the round in the chamber.
I know on my Ruger SP101 there is a "transfer bar" that allows for firing only when the trigger is pressed all the way rearward, and Ruger says the revolver is safe to carry fully loaded. I've seen the transfer bar work and I do feel safe carrying my SP101 loaded.
For the Taurus I have read "the gun also has a self-engaging firing pin block that doesn't release until or unless the trigger is squeezed all the way to the rear." This sounds similar to the Ruger but I have only read that it operates on the PT145's with DAO operation. Is this safety feature also on the 3rd generation DA/SA PT145's ?
I guess what I am asking is, with a round loaded in the chamber of a PT145 3rd generation would you feel safe carrying as a concealed weapon?
February 13, 2007, 05:00 PM
"I guess what I am asking is, with a round loaded in the chamber of a PT145 3rd generation would you feel safe carrying as a concealed weapon?"
I recently bought a 3rd gen. PT111 and would definitely carry it w/ a round loaded. If for some reason the firing pin was released without me pulling the trigger first the firing pin block would still be in place and would, well, block the firing pin from hitting the primer. No trigger pull = no BANG.
February 13, 2007, 05:24 PM
I guess what I am asking is, with a round loaded in the chamber of a PT145 3rd generation would you feel safe carrying as a concealed weapon?
I understand your question on a very basic level as it was the same question I had before I bought my Taurus. The PT-XXX series pistols all have a firing pin interruptor that ONLY moves out of the way when the trigger is pulled. (this also makes the pistol "drop safe"). These pistols (and, for that matter any "drop safe" modern design I can think of) can be carried with a round in the chamber as long as you keep your finger OFF the trigger until ready to fire. Even if the firing pin somehow snapped loose from the trigger sear the interruptor bar/pin is still in the way and will NOT let the firing pin hit the primer.
Along with this is knowing that your holster should enclose the trigger to keep any foreign object from depressing the trigger. This is ESPECIALLY true with pocket carry as pens, keys, etc could cause problems.
I had to work on myself for a while to go from carrying the pistol without a round in the chamber to being comfortable with having a live round in the chamber. Take your time, work on it, you'll get there too.
Always keep the four rules in mind and you'll stay out of trouble.
February 13, 2007, 06:01 PM
Point well taken. After 30+ years of not even firing a handgun it's hard getting back the feel and all. Just taking little steps right now.
February 13, 2007, 06:05 PM
make your Mil-Pro Tacticool :cool:
February 13, 2007, 06:08 PM
lol nice
February 14, 2007, 12:04 AM
Most all modern semiautos and including many 1911 designs use a type of firing pin block. The block sits vertically to the firing pin and locks in a channel to prevent movement of the pin. Spring pressure keeps it applied and it takes a manual pull of the trigger to force a ram against the firing pin block to move it so the firing pin can fire. I suppose it could break and allow the firing pin to move but so could a transfer bar too and get stuck between the hammer and pin.:o
Panthera Tigris
February 15, 2007, 03:40 PM
I was going to get a Glock 19 because they are the lightest weight 9mms I've found in my area. After reading the thread here however, I found the MP in 9mm stainless for $299, 3rd generation. I picked up two stainless models. I'm planning on a range trip tomorrow. The comments here sold me, plus the fact the unloaded model only ways 18.5 ounces I believe 2 ounces less than Glocks. All of the other polymer guns I've checked out start out around 27 ounces empty, and that's too heavy for me to carry all day. I doubt I'll even much notice the Millennium Pro on my hip!
Thanks for the link to the taurusarmed site. As for the safety on the Pro, my early impression is its safety is just as secure as a 1911's and perhaps a bit better than the Hi Power I used to own.
February 15, 2007, 04:04 PM
KelTec PF-9, weighs 12.7 ounces.
Panthera Tigris
February 15, 2007, 04:45 PM
Wow, looks like a nice little gun. That one I'm unfamiliar with. Previous Keltec 9s I've seen were too small for me.
February 16, 2007, 11:40 AM
I have the second generation PT 145. Absolutely love it!!!!! My wife shoots it very well as well but she is looking at getting a 9mm. I guess my question is on the new 3rd generation Mill Pro's are they SA\DA or DA\SA? I hear everyone worried about no decocker but that does not bother me. My question is this. Is the first shot single action and all others double action? Or is the first shot double action and the following single? I am still confused on this issue. Any help would be appreciated!!! How does the trigger pull feel compaired to my DA only PT 145?
February 16, 2007, 11:53 AM
I sent my 3rd Generation PT-145 to Miami for FTFs with JHPs.
Otherwise I really liked it and can't wait to get it back. Just hope they actually fix it.
Anyway the 3rd Generation is Single Action on every shot. It only reverts to Double Action if you have a misfire giving you a second strike capability.
February 16, 2007, 12:06 PM
nother happy Taurus owner here.
Ive got a PT111MilPro.
I quit counting at 4 thousand flawless rds.. but im somewhere aroound the 6k mark i think now...
super accuratte, great handeling for me, points great too..
Next runner-up is my KahrCW9. price and capacity are the division there tho.
My milpro eats up antthing Ive fed it. my preferrd load is the Winchester SilverTip HP, 147gr for carry, and the 115gr around the house.
cleanest ammo for target shooting is the Blazer 115gr FMJ ime.
February 16, 2007, 01:37 PM
Mill Pro
I have the second generation PT 145. Absolutely love it!!!!! My wife shoots it very well as well but she is looking at getting a 9mm. I guess my question is on the new 3rd generation Mill Pro's are they SA\DA or DA\SA? I hear everyone worried about no decocker but that does not bother me. My question is this. Is the first shot single action and all others double action? Or is the first shot double action and the following single? I am still confused on this issue. Any help would be appreciated!!! How does the trigger pull feel compaired to my DA only PT 145?
It is a single action and only goes double action when there is a missfire.
When you rack the slide to chamber a round, the striker is fully cocked.
So it is a SA with a second strike capability.
IMO the third generation has a much better trigger, but again, it is always single action unless you pull the trigger and get a missfire.
February 16, 2007, 01:38 PM
Thanks Florida Cracker
February 16, 2007, 01:41 PM
Sorry, I did not see the other posts. Thanks to you all!
SSN Vet
February 16, 2007, 04:14 PM
I have the 2nd gen. PT-111 Mil Pro w/ the DAO trigger.....bought it before 3rd gen. came out.
it has been my daily carry piece for 11 months, so that should tell you how I feel about it.
IF you hit a trigger it is in all likeliness going to be hard enough to shoot the DAO trigger as well.
I disagree with this statement. The DAO trigger is long and requires deliberate action.
My question is this: Why not just use the safety? Even the DAO model, like mine, has a very light trigger pull albeit long. I use the safety when there's one in the pipe myself.
Though the DAO pull is much lighter than the DA pull on my revolver....but I wouldn't call it light. I'd guess ~6#. But that being said I agree with this post and chose to carry w/ one in the pipe and the manual safety on.
I do not strive to maintain a condition of readiness suitable for the O.K. Corral. Nor do I have resources or time to train for such "quick draw" responses. I'm trusting my vigilance to avoid elevated risk situations and my wits to buy me the ~3 seconds I need to safely draw my weapon and toggle off the safety. Maybe someday I'll take up IDPA and feel differently about it, but the way things are today, I consider my chances of having an AD to be greater than than my chances of needing to quick draw and blast an entire gang of armed assailants.
The Mil Pro...whether DAO or SA/DA is a very reliable and safe weapon
February 16, 2007, 05:55 PM
I actually got to try the "second strike" deal last weekend when I had a round that wouldn't go, pulled it 4 times and still no go.....my buddy got it to go in his XD after 3 pulls. Pretty cool feature though for a S/A..... but that is the first time I have ever had a bad .45 round. Damn Fichocci
February 18, 2007, 08:13 PM
only 400 rounds through her so far but zero malfs....trigger is awesome, accuracy while not stellar is good, no finish problems, easy and quick to field strip, and in my opinion she's a looker....only complaint I had was the sharp checkering of the grip but my Hogue slip on cured that....needless to say but I'm very happy with my Millenium:)
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/6427/p2180083editedvk0.th.jpg (http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p2180083editedvk0.jpg)
February 18, 2007, 08:33 PM
I have a Pro 45 cal. that goes with me everywhere. Functions with all ammo that I feed it. It does shoot about 3" low at 15 yards but I am told that is because of the way I grip. No problem in a fire fight.
February 19, 2007, 02:51 PM
It does shoot about 3" low at 15 yards but I am told that is because of the way I grip.
My Pt111 has a tendency to shoot low as well at longer ranges. I've found that if I use the pad of my trigger finger instead of the joint, it goes a long way in correcting this. But I agree, at shorter realistic distances, I'm not even using the sight, I'm point shooting anyway. :)
June 7, 2007, 12:09 PM
Bought a brand new PT-140 from my old reliable gun dealer last month.
Took it out to my "back forty" and had an unreal experience....
Out of twenty rounds fired, the magazine fell out fourteen times!!!!!!!!
In order to get any following rounds to fire I had to hold the magazine in place. Mind you, this is a brand new gun.
Took it back to the dealer, who experienced the same phenomenom (?) at his indoor range. He's astute enough to diagnose that the magazine retainer clip/spring was bad.
His armorer was not able to get any parts from Taurus unless the gun was sent back to the factory!
Its been almost four weeks now, and still no ("expletive") gun.
Now, I've owned a dozen or so different models of Taurus pistols and the two most recent ones I've purchased have had problems right out of the box.
If (and when) this gun comes back and it hiccups at all, this gun will become "target practice" for my varmint rifle.
There's no way I'm going to sell this POS to someone who may have to stake their life on it in a self-defense situation.
Come on Taurus International !!....If you can't keep up on your quality control as your production numbers increase, you'll not get any of my future business again.
June 7, 2007, 12:17 PM
Here are my thoughts:
June 7, 2007, 02:23 PM
So far in this thread all I have read were complaints about a standard SA gun that also has DA mode, pretty much. How come no one complains about the original CZ75 (non decocker) or most 1911's? This gun was meant to be carried cocked and locked or without one in the chamber, period. If that method of carry is not for you, then don't get it!
If this is the only complaint that people have over the 3rd generation PT145's then I am looking forward even more to owning one.
And as to the rail on this gun, I love it! My Insight X2 will fit on it perfectly :)
June 7, 2007, 02:46 PM
So far in this thread all I have read were complaints about a standard SA gun that also has DA mode, pretty much. How come no one complains about the original CZ75 (non decocker) or most 1911's? This gun was meant to be carried cocked and locked or without one in the chamber, period. If that method of carry is not for you, then don't get it!
You can lower the hammer to half cock on a 1911 and CZ, but you can not lower the striker on the current PT pistols!
It's a whole different system.
June 7, 2007, 02:50 PM
I hate my Mil-Pro. It's so inaccurate it's not funny. The rear site had to be adjusted so far to the right to compensate that the blade actually hangs over the side of the mount. I'm an accurate shooter but this thing is barely minute of pie plate at 10 yards.
It's utterly disgusting.
Considering the problems posted about Taurus taking so long to repair, I'm not sending it back. It will be sold to someone dumb enough to buy it regardless of my warnings of it's innaccuracy.
Fit and finish-wise it was excellent. It had fed and ejected every type of ammo I've thrown at it without a hiccup. It's easy to disassemble and assemble. It cleans up easily. It's easy to conceal and is relatively light.
Other than it's inaccuracy, it's been a dream pistol.
July 7, 2007, 02:16 PM
I had the same problem with the mag falling out. Taurus needs to get a handle on their QC. I have freinds that recommend taurus to me but now I'll spend the extra $200 to $300 for a reliable firearm.
July 7, 2007, 03:31 PM
Happy owner of a Taurus PT111 Pro 2nd Edition. I've shot hundreds (about 1k to 1500 - I didn't keep track past 300 or so) rounds through it without a single failure to feed, fire, or extract (or anything else you might think of causing a failure). It carries pretty well and is quite accurate (accurate enough that I can hit bowling pins consistently at 25 yards - and that's a feat for this shooter).
If I could afford one of hte 3rd series w/ the DA/SA triggers, I'd get one. It's a good gun.
You can lower the hammer to half cock on a 1911 and CZ, but you can not lower the striker on the current PT pistols!
Why would you lower the hammer to half-cock? Half-cock does nothing but prevent you from dropping the hammer inadvertently on a live round. Want a safe gun? Use the safety. Want a gun ready to fire? Take the safety off. Any other situation and you're better off just removing the round, regardless of the firearm make and model. (This really seems like a pointless criticism on your part.)
July 7, 2007, 06:27 PM
I love my 2nd Gen DAO PT145 and found it very accurate. Now...when I do let others shoot it...I have noted that people not familiar with firing weapons, especially semi-autos...well, they had problems. People who knew how to fire an semi-auto...no problems. Need I say more?
March 5, 2008, 03:19 AM
so am I correct in thinking that the current Millenium Pro pistols have the short rail at the front of the frame?
March 7, 2008, 09:20 PM
I just bought a 3rd Gen .40 last week. I took it to the range and was very impressed. I am waiting to get my CHL(HURRY DPS) so I can use it as my ccw. Is there any kind of accessories that can be put on it? Red dot perhaps? And if so does anybody know where I could find some?
March 8, 2008, 10:02 PM
just picked up a PT111 Pro today- VERY happy with it.
This is my second brand-new handgun. First being a 24/7 Pro in .40. I took the .40 straight out of the box and ran 180gr FMJ through it- had several failures to go into battery. Range guy suggested i lube the gun (well duh, in hindsight), no problems since.
After picking up the PT111 today, while picking up ammo at WM, I grabbed carb cleaner and a can of Break Free. Sprayed out the shipping preservative (cosmoline?), sprayed Break Free over strategic places, wiped it off. Gun ran like a clock.
VERY happy. I'm even startig to prefer the Heine sights to standard 3-dot.
XD-40 Shooter
March 9, 2008, 12:19 AM
I've owned my PT-140 Pro DAO since January '05 and I am very happy with it. It has been 100% reliable, very accurate for a compact gun, tames the 40 recoil nicely, fits my hand great, and it has an excellent fit and finish. For $350 out the door, I'm happy.:D I also like the large 3 dot sights on these guns, much larger than what is on my XD, alot easier to see.
November 2, 2008, 10:08 AM
I bought this gun, and loved it. Fits my hand right and ate every brand name ammo that I fed it. No jams or any problems. Going to a gun show now to buy another Taurus. Peace to all.
November 2, 2008, 10:59 AM
I have a new PT145 and like it very much. I find a lot of comfort in 9 rounds of 45, the form factor and grip angle is compatible with my other pistols. For a DA the trigger feels good, long but reasonably light seems to be the best description. Recoil is surprising tame although I do feel it in the web of my hand after a while. I think that the grip is a little fat and contoured helps a lot.
I am a lefty so I will throw in two cents on how I carry. I carry it for cross draw in a generic iwb holster with the safety on. I flip the safety off with my left index finger before I draw. The index finger then kind of rides naturally along the side of the gun if that makes sense. Feels safe enough.The little bugger rides comfortable and conceals well against my body being the grip tilts back enough to ride with my body best. For comparison I am 6 ft, 170 and 34 pants are loose enough to accommodate the gun.
December 28, 2008, 06:36 AM
"It does shoot about 3" low at 15 yards but I am told that is because of the way I grip. "
I had the same results on my PT111 until modifying my grip to having 'both thumbs forward' or 'straight thumbs' instead of overlapping thumbs. http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/combatg_100306/
It involves rotating the support hand/wrist forward about 30 degrees allowing the grip hand thumb to lay on top of the support hand thumb. This provided a much firmer grip, limited recoil, and allowed me to place the rounds where I was aiming. Using this grip I was able to reset the sights to 'zero' which is the way they came from the factory. Quick firing accuracy improved dramatically as well as I am now able to manage the recoil better and re-set on the target much faster.
You will notice your PT111 MilPro has two dimples on each side of the weapon to correspond with this grip in the placing of your thumbs (and trigger finger when not firing), which makes it easy to repeat the same grip over and over again, quickly. This grip may feel awkward at first, but your muscle memory will learn it in no time flat.
Another big plus to this grip is that it gets the thumbs away from the mag release on just about any weapon.
This same grip made a huge difference in 'limp wristed' beginners and their FTF/FTE troubles with other weapons due to undermanaged recoil, especially those shooting .45's.
December 29, 2008, 12:43 AM
The PT111 shoots low because it features genuine defective Heine straight 8 sights.
If you're picky like me (you actually want the gun to hit point of aim) simply file down the front sight an appropriate amount, being careful not to remove too much metal then fill and paint the Heinie dots black so you can't see them. Now that you've fixed the Heinie mess, you can enjoy what is otherwise a fine pistol.
Now for a set of night sights.........
April 7, 2009, 07:27 PM
Bought mine about 3 months ago during an outbreak of robberies and home intrusions in our area; yep, got CCW permit.
Had it out to the range only once and it shot well. Put about 60 rounds thru it (mix of fmj and jhp) w/o misfires, injection or ejection hangups. Not a handgun expert by any means but it seems like a well handling, reliable weapon although I cannot say I am a fan of the Heinie "Straight 8" sights. I grew up shooting competitively (rifles) with iron sights and a single iron pin up front to center into a dovetail rear still works best for me and, thus, I am not a fan of the straight 8 setup and will look to replace the rear sight piece ASAP.
I bought my gun as a kit which included extra clip/mag, cleaning brush, owners manual and two keys for the Taurus Security System - basically can lock the slide and trigger via an intrinsic security system built into the pistol itself. See the black dot near the rear of the right side of the slide in the picture below.
Oh, and it is a thumb killer to load the magazines so I ordered something called SUPER LOADER at the recommendation of another Taurus owner who said it is a real "thumb saver" in assisting with faster reloading of the tightly sprung Taurus mags - we'll see.
One last thing, I researched the gun around the time I bought it and found out via another forum that the 3rd generation series of the Millenium line can be identified by the second character of the serial number being an A or B; there had apparently been some confusion with some recent gun purchasers not knowing if they had gotten a 2nd or 3rd generation gun so this tidbit of info was posted as an FYI.
Hope this is helpful to any potential Taurus customers out there.....
September 25, 2010, 08:40 PM
I was reading here on the post that the third generation of the Taurus PT 145PRO was stated on the right side of the slide and just MILLENNIUM on the right and the letter Z as first or second letter in the serial number. Well my marking are as stated above as far as the left and right sides of the slide which I understand only third generations are marked that way but my serial number has no Z in it. The beginning letters are NAU. So what do I have?
1st, 2nd or 3rd generation? Taurus stated that it was manufactured in 2008.
January 4, 2011, 11:31 PM
I just bought a PT145 and the slide markings are third generation as described earlier. My serial # starts out NCX xxxxx.
As to the da/sa trigger, no complaints. I've work with my Llama Omni 45's trigger which is longer than most and it still gives me fits on the transition. I don't have a problem shooting my 1911, XD or this Taurus. I don't feel the take up between sa/da is all that great. I have long fingers and fairly large hands and don't have a problem with the grip or engaging the safety. Another half inch on the grip would be nice, but at the expense of concealment. The gun also recoils less than I thought for such a small, light weight package. Not as accurate as my Norinco 1911, but on par with my Springfield XD. Very happy so far with my first Taurus auto.
January 5, 2011, 01:45 AM
My wife had the .45 version of the Millennium Pro. Great gun. Pretty much all that needs to be said. Especially good considering the price.
January 5, 2011, 09:31 AM
So what do I have?
1st, 2nd or 3rd generation?
Here's your answer: Which Generation Do I Have? (http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=38310.0)
If you enjoyed reading about "Taurus Millennium Pro owners?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join
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text:
Controlled sales of alcoholic beverages could be coming to Allendale Township parks. The Parks and Recreation Committee recently recommended a change in the park rules and regulations ordinance that would allow "beer tent" type sales by approval.
Currently the ordinance reads, "No person shall consume alcoholic beverages in any park." The committee suggested wording like, "Alcohol shall only be allowed in the park when purchased from a vendor licensed by the township, and shall only be allowed within an area enclosed by a fence, provided by the vendor. The vendor shall hire security to monitor the enclosed area."
The Township Board has not yet received a formal proposal from the committee, according to Supervisor Jerry Alkema.
The Township Board has discussed increasing the use of park facilities through special events, including concerts. The Parks Committee has asked the Downtown Development Authority to budget matching funds for additional picnic tables ($5,000), and a band/events shelter ($15,000), but Alkema said that request has not been approved as details of the construction, such as location, are still unknown.
"It's all just in the 'think tank' stage right now," said Trustee Matt Murphy. He did not have information about the alcohol ordinance. "The band shelter is also preliminary as of right now but I haven't forgotten about it. I would like to see music in the park next year, in some capacity, even if it's on a temporary site. I think it could be a great weekly event to help draw the community together."
Several years ago the Chamber of Commerce requested a beer tent in the park as part of the July 4 activities. The board refused the request. Georgetown Township this year included a beer tent, sponsored by American Legion Post 459, in the Jenison Street Dance in August. A beer tent is also available to guests at Coopersville Summer Fest each year.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
on March 22, 2012 - 12:01 AM
In 1886, a shipment of $25 watches from a Chicago jeweler was rejected by the addressee in Redwood Falls, Minn. The jeweler offered to sell the undeliverable goods for $12 apiece to a railroad station agent, who could then sell them to other agents. Which is what the agent, 23-year-old Richard Warren Sears, did.
Soon his watch business was booming, so he quit working on the railroad, moved to Minneapolis, then quickly to the nation's railroad hub, Chicago, where in 1887 he met Alvah Curtis Roebuck, a watchmaker and printer. Rural life and retailing were about to change.
As the late Daniel Boorstin explained in "The Americans: The Democratic Experience," Sears and Roebuck were on a trail blazed by Aaron Montgomery Ward.
Hitherto, the goods most Americans bought -- things they could not make for themselves -- were items they could handle and examine, sold by people they knew. Now they were enticed to buy unseen goods from distant strangers.
The name Sears, Roebuck and Co. appeared in 1893 and the catalog was the company's shop window, store counter and salesman.
By the middle of the 20th century, Sears had come to town as the nation's largest retailer, with stores that defined many towns' downtowns. But in Bentonville, Ark., Sam Walton had an idea for bigger stores on the outskirts of towns. Sears has become a casualty of Walmart's retailing revolution.
Today new mothers sign up at Amazon Mom for regular deliveries of diapers. This is a 21st-century permutation of an innovation in long-distance commerce that began in 19th-century Chicago.
Creative destruction continues in the digital age. After 244 years the Encyclopedia Britannica will henceforth be available only in digital form as it tries to catch up to reference websites such as Google and Wikipedia. Another digital casualty forgot it was selling the preservation of memories, aka "Kodak moments," not film.
America now is divided between those who find this social churning unnerving and those who find it exhilarating. What Virginia Postrel postulated in 1998 in "The Future and Its Enemies: The Growing Conflict Over Creativity, Enterprise and Progress" -- the best book for rescuing the country from a ruinous itch for tidiness -- is even more true now. Today's primary political and cultural conflict is, Postrel says, between people, mislabeled "progressives," who crave social stasis, and those, paradoxically called conservatives, who welcome the perpetual churning of society by dynamism.
Stasists see Borders succumb to e-books (and Amazon) and lament the passing of familiar things. Dynamists say: Relax, reading is thriving. In 2001, the iPod appeared and soon stores such as Tower Records disappeared. Who misses them?
Theodore Roosevelt, America's first progressive president, thought it was government's duty to "look ahead and plan out the right kind of civilization." TR looked ahead and saw a "timber famine" caused by railroads' ravenous appetites for cross-ties that rotted. He did not foresee creosote, which preserves cross-ties. Imagine all the things government planners cannot anticipate when, in their defining hubris, they try to impose their static dream of the "right kind" of future.
As long as America is itself, it will welcome the messy chaos that is not really disorder but rather what Postrel calls "an order that is unpredictable, spontaneous, and ever shifting, a pattern created by millions of uncoordinated, independent decisions." Professional coordinators, aka bureaucracies, are dismayed. Good.


text:
Electronic Currents Playlist for October 18, 2013
"The Fog (Kassey Voorn Vintage Interpretation)" by Quivver
"Wonder & Amazement (Deetron Vocal Mix)" By Grand Corporation feat. Jeremy Glenn
"That Cat In White (Vorobiev Remix)" by Filter Cutz
"Thinking (Mark Knight Remix)" by Submotion Orchestra
"I'll Be There (Hoxton Whores Remix)" by Hiio
"Something For The Pain" by Ad Brown feat. Renee Six
"Wake Me Up" by Avicii
"Owner Of A Lonely Heart (Steve Murano Remix)" by Yes
"Where Have You Been (Hardwell Club Mix)" by Rihanna
"Daydream" by Moonbeam & Leusin feat. Leusin
"Dream State" by Two & One and Sarah Russell
"Gave Me" by Giuseppe Ottaviani feat. Seri
"Autumn Tactics (The Thrillseekers Remix)" by Chicane
"Galapagos (Hanski Remix)" by Gallagher, Lane & Palagno
"Home (Original Radio Edit)" by Coast 2 Coast
"Lightness" by Spark 7
"Anywhere With You (Solarstone Pure Mix)"
"When I Close My Eyes (Aly & Fila Remix)" By Alex M.O.R.P.H. feat. Hannah
"The Growing Phrase" by King Roc
"Emotions" by Ashley Wallbridge
"Unique Morning" by Prototype/Unique


text:
The Growers Weed Identification Handbook, one of the University of California's most popular reference manuals for farmers and pest control advisors, has been expanded to describe 16 additional weeds.
The publication - which now covers 311 weeds - presents accurate information on nearly all types of native and exotic vegetation that invades California's rangeland and cultivated cropland. Using common names and terms, the handbook lists characteristics of each weed, its geographic origin and the crops and sites it typically infests. Concise and complete descriptions help distinguish similar weeds. Color photographs picture all weeds in seedling and mature stages, and show other distinguishing characteristics, such as their flowers and fruit.
The copy was written and photos taken over the course of 30 years by Bill Fischer, weed farm advisor emeritus for University of California Cooperative Extension in Fresno County. He initiated the project to help farmers make informed decisions about field selection, herbicide use and other weed control measures.
"Without knowledge of weeds, it's nearly impossible to effectively and economically control weeds in our agricultural crops," Fischer said.
The 311-page loose-leaf publication is available in its entirety for $80; or the new pages may be purchased separately for addition to existing handbooks for $6. Copies are available at county UC Cooperative Extension offices, or may be ordered by mail from UC Communication Services, 6701 San Pablo Avenue, Oakland, CA 94608. Include a check payable to "UC Regents," to include sales tax and shipping, in the amount of $94.60 for the complete publication or $8.50 for the 16 new pages.
Jeannette Warnert
Public Information Representative
UC Regional Office
550 E. Shaw Avenue
Fresno, CA 93710
(559) 225-5611
e-mail: email@example.com
5554 Clayton Road Concord CA 94521 (925) 672-5115 firstname.lastname@example.com


text:
TUPELO – Those dreaming of a white Christmas may have to wait for next year, but they could see a white Saturday morning.
According to the National Weather Service in Memphis, Northeast Mississippi has a 40 percent chance of snow late tonight and early Saturday morning. This may be the only snow the area sees for the rest of the year, according to meteorologist Andy Sniezak.
But if you're planning on getting up and building a snowman, you're probably going to be disappointed. Sniezak predicted little or no accumulation.
"The area could see some very light snowfall, but it definitely won't be enough to get stuck in," said Sniezak. "There won't be enough to even cause bad road conditions."
Temperatures will dip into the mid-20s tonight and Saturday. Normal highs for this time of year are in the mid-50s, but for at least the next few days the highs will be in the 40s with nighttime lows in the 20s.
Mississippi Highway Patrolman Ray Hall said roads are unlikely to ice over, but bridges could get slick if enough moisture is in the air. Hall said extra troopers will be working tonight to monitor the bridges.
Contact Danza Johnson at (662) 678-1583 or email@example.com.
Danza Johnson/NEMS Daily Journal


text:
Download citation file:
Supported in part by research grants AM-30582 and AM-34988 from the National Institutes of Health, a grant from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of France (Dr. Moreau), grant NSC-60 from the Sicilian Health Service (Dr. Maringhini), and a grant from the Mayo Foundation.
Presented in abstract form May 1986 at the annual meeting of the American can Gastroenterological Association, San Francisco, California.
▸Requests for reprints should be addressed to Eugene P. DiMagno, M.D.; GI Diagnostic Unit, Mayo Clinic; Rochester, MN 55905.
Rochester, Minnesota
©1987 American College of PhysiciansAmerican College of Physicians
All 2583 residents of Rochester, Minnesota, who had gallstones initially diagnosed during the years 1950 to 1970 were followed for the development of gastrointestinal malignancies. Although 69 members of the cohort subsequently developed 72 gastrointestinal malignancies, this number of cases did not exceed the 76 cases expected (relative risk, 1.0). The risk for gallbladder cancer was increased threefold, but the increase was significant only in men (p = 0.05; 95% confidence interval, 1.0 to 30.0). The absolute incidence and the total number of men and women who developed gallbladder cancer was low (n = 5). The actual incidence of other gastrointestinal malignancies in our cohort with gallstones did not exceed the expected incidence in the general population of Rochester, Minnesota. Specifically, the risk for colon cancer was not increased, even after cholecystectomy. These data support an association between cholelithiasis and gallbladder cancer. We found, however, no association between cholelithiasis or cholecystectomy and any other gastrointestinal malignancy.
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