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A Generous Orthodoxy - Printable Version
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- Rick Henry - 23-07-2007
Dear John, and All,
There is a very fine line between a full blown theological agnosticism and a belief that, at times, Truth lies beyond the choice between affirmation and negation.
When I read, as has been said elsewhere by one of my favorite scholars, about another controversy:
Quote:. . . the Chalcedonians had attempted to define too closely in human words the Infinite Mystery which would always lay just beyond the horizon of our understanding.
I cannot but consider how this directly applies to our present conversation, and I feel compelled to share this at this juncture, as I also am looking to others here for some input.
In Christ,
"This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church."--Paul (Eph 5:32)
A Generous Orthodoxy - John Charmley - 23-07-2007
Dear Rick,
So often, as in the formulations of the Creed, we define in an apophatic way - by what is not rather than by what is. St. Cyril of Alexandria rightly warned against the impiety of trying to capture the Infinite in our reasoning and our words; were that possible whatever it was we should have caught would not be the Infinite or the Ineffable.
In this country there is a direct tradition back to the early Church, but it is a complex and fractured one. As an Anglican I felt part of that tradition - as I do as an Orthodox; but I am conscious not so much of having added something to what I knew as an Anglican, but rather by discovering what was inferred and perhaps implicit.
Much is made, and rightly so, by the Orthodox of the Patristic heritage; but it is more problematic and contested than perhaps we admit or know. How many of us have read through even the volumes of the Fathers that are available in English translation? I am struck, when I do, by the way in which they build on readings of the Scriptures; but they do not often build on each other - for fairly simple reasons in many cases. So what is this Patristic consensus and who proclaims it?
It seems easy enough to reply that it is the 'Church', but that gets us back to where we started; what is that Church? On another site I am excited by Peter Farrington's expositions of the writings of St. Severus and St. Dioscoros, painfully conscious of how little of either I have read. I am treasuring the letters of St. Severus published by the Oriental Orthodox Library, but as I read them I am aware of wanting more from such a great pastor and Christian thinker. But then I am brought short with the realisation that to some Eastern Orthodox St. Severus is an anathematised heretic; and I then think that he cannot be so to anyone who has read even the small amount I have read.
On the other hand are all those legions of nineteenth and twentieth century Russians bits of whom I have read, but about whose corpus I know little beyond obvious titles.
Then there is my favourite of all the Fathers, St. Cyril of Alexandria, whose writings are not even in the modern reprints, but from whose commentaries (thank you Peter!) I have derived so much edification.
Beyond these come those from my own old tradition - men like Launcelot Andrewes, Keble, Pusey and Newman. The notion that these men add nothing to a Christian's appreciation of his/her faith is ungenerous to the point of silliness. Whatever label you affix to him, I can see Newman as nothing but Orthodox- and yet he began an Evangelical Anglican, became a High one and then went over to Rome.
A generous Orthodoxy seems to be a sine qua non. Newman and company reminded English speakers long ago of the importance of the Patristic inheritance; but he also added to that heritage in his own writings. We can see where the Church is not - but sometimes it seems to be in places where we might not expect it - a sign, surely, of our limitations?
In Christ,
- Rick Henry - 24-07-2007
Dear John,
As you suggest I would think a Generous Orthodoxy is an essential element of any who claim to follow the Lord Jesus Christ. And, yes, in this same vein of thought, I appreciate your comments about determining and adding to in a contrived way, as opposed to a process of discovery--these are two completely different things.
But, now we move to the meat and potatoes, so to say . . . to the heart of the matter, when you say in the following:
Quote:Much is made, and rightly so, by the Orthodox of the Patristic heritage; but it is more problematic and contested than perhaps we admit or know. How many of us have read through even the volumes of the Fathers that are available in English translation? I am struck, when I do, by the way in which they build on readings of the Scriptures; but they do not often build on each other - for fairly simple reasons in many cases. So what is this Patristic consensus and who proclaims it? It seems easy enough to reply that it is the 'Church, but that gets us back to where we started; what is that Church?
I am fond of the expression, "In the End, the Beginning," as it has been used by some from T.S. Elliot forward; however, I do not appreciate it when it demonstrates a circular reasoning such as you pointed to above. When it is used in this way, it is a "ring around the rosy" whereby in the end there is really only just the end--ashes and death.
To be sure, if one desires to speak of the Holy Tradition of the Church as the Spirit of Life of the Church, as the work of the Holy Spirit. Then one speaks of a very Beautiful Living Tradition.
But, if one would speak of the Tradition of the Church as being a justification for one's own way of thinking and living, then one has clearly carved an idol which serves to only affirm/validate and edify one's self. Then to varying degrees there is a veneration of a god created in our own image, or worse yet, a worshipping of one's own self in the end.
To me it is a very frustrating thing, but more so, a very sad thing. Initially, when I was first exposed to such ways of knowing and being I observed that this way of living was primarily fear driven. And, fear is a huge part of this circular reasoning which serves as the foundation for such 'religious' justifications, for the way we live and understand. However, I have since come to realize that at the heart of the matter, this is a very old way of operating here, a methodology that can be observed from the first days of creation in the Garden in fact.
But, more to the point here John, you have asked three pointed questions in the following:
1.) What is this Patristic consensus?
2.) Who proclaims it?
3.) What is that Church?
and, at the present, I think we would be doing very well to even just scratch the surface of the first question.
When we speak of a Patristic consensus, what are we really talking about? I hear this phrase batted around all time. Usually, when I hear this phrase employed, it seeks to serve as an authentication of what has been said. It seems to be a stamp or a seal of genuineness as it is used. But, to be honest with you, most of the time, it sounds to me more like when someone tells you something, and then when you ask them what they base their assertion on, they say, "I read it in a magazine somewhere." To which one normally replies, something like "Oh," and then the conversation is over, it just comes to an end.
But, let's keep going with this . . . let's take this to the next level, clearly there *are* different 'schools of thought' to be found in the thinking of the Church Fathers, just as there are today in the thinking of contemporary Orthodoxy theologians. From the varying opinions on which books of the Bible are considered cannon by the Fathers, to thinking as it relates to doctrine and pastoral care, one can appeal to different sources within the History of the Church and the History of Christian Thought to establish varied positions. This goes without saying that there are 'different schools of thought' to be found within Orthodoxy both ancient and modern day. If one disputes this fact, then one has never read the writings of the past or today . . . or, if one has been Orthodox for a period of time at all, then one must live in a hole of some kind to not be able to see this.
So, yes John, what is this Patristic consensus?
Where I am sitting right now as I bang away on this keyboard, I am surrounded by my silent companions. I have books on shelves from the floor to the ceiling. I have a Church History section, a Theology section, a Language section, a Biography section, a Biblical Studies section, a Bibliology section, a Hermeneutic section, and a large section devoted to Bible Commentaries. And, I am very familiar with most of my books, with most of the authors. As I'm sure most here know, we become aquainted with the authors as people when we read them. We almost feel like we know them after a while. After a while, we start to understand where they are coming from and why they say what they say. We learn more about them as people and the events and circumstances that shaped their lives as they grew into the men and women that they were as they put down words on paper.
But, and here's the thing . . . I am so familiar with these authors that I can say anything that I want to, and I know exactly where to go, I know exactly which shelve(s) to go to in order to pull "the right ones" who will agree with me!
Do you see what I am saying here? Within reason, I can say whatever I want to say about Church History or Theology or Pastoral Care, or really whatever . . . and I can appeal to the proper source to back up what I have just said. And, the more books that I pull from the shelves to back up what I am saying, the more of a consensus that I will build--the stronger my position becomes.
In this sense the more I am trained and the more experienced I am at doing this, the more of a chance there will be that I will overwhelm the ones who have no training or experience. Even if what I am saying just doesn't sound right to the less 'knowledgeable,' after a while they will *simply* be overcomed by what I am saying and be forced to either give in or suffer the modern death called apathy.
But, in the end, what is the difference between 'giving in in this fashion' and succumbing to apathy? In both cases one is really just overwhelmed and suffers a death of sorts.
But, let's say I have convinced one of the consensus that I have demonstrated, and he has decided to subscribe to what I am saying. Then when this convert begins to teach others what he has 'learned,' when tries to remember what he was taught and he attempts to parrot back the same thing which overwhelmed him . . . at best, what is it that will be reproduced here??? What is it that he or she really knows and is pointing toward now?
Is this proclaimer pointing to the Church based on a true consensus?
Or, more to the point, what is it that forms the foundation for this proclaimer's way of knowing?
What type of mindset is he or she modeling when he or she operates from this state of being?
Or, worse yet, what is going to happen to this person and his or her disciples when someone else comes along who knows which books to pull off of the shelves which will completely contradict what they were taught by the first person?
And, possibly right now some are thinking, well this chap really likes to work in the hypothetical or the land of "what if," doesn't' he? But, if this is the case, please allow me to suggest that unless you live in a hole, there is a very good chance that you are participating in the above way of knowing and being right now! If you cannot see that there is nothing hypothetical at all about what is being said above as it relates to the different schools of thought to be found within an historic Orthodox approach, then chances are you have been overwhelmed at some point as mentioned above.
Take the case of the two teachers (pullers of books) above. Consider their particular groups and schools of thought that they represent. Can you imagine a chance meeting, one day, of two disciples, one from each group? Say one day on the plane, these two people strike up a conversation. At first they learn the they are both "Orthodox" and they are glad to have this chance encounter. But, eventually they 'learn' that they have both been taught different things. And, since they each have based their whole philosophy of Christian living around these things, there is some tension that begins to build. On an increasing basis, their facial features begin to tighten, and their voice tones begin to change in pitch. Eventually, when neither can support what either is saying, they resort to using such terms as Patristic Consensus or the Treasury of the Apostolic Witness, as if this is to wave Harry's wand and overwhelm the other--or as if this is to be the end all or to prove one's position beyond the shadow of a doubt! But, how absurd this is to think that such a magic phrase will cast a spell of some kind that will persuade a thinking man or women. Or, back to our point here, how absurd it *is* to consider two adults waving their magic wands and uttering special phrases at each other while attempting to defend the words of another which represent nothing more than an alter of remembrance of the day they were overwhelmed. Before these two stop speaking there will be a volley of "Well, I was taught this" and "Well, I was taught that." Before the newspapers go up in front of each persons face, so that he or she can escape from this madness, an exercise, or better yet a dance will take place, one that takes place every day in the real world. And, this is frustrating, but it is also very sad, because this type of thing promotes only division and schism, the opposite of any kind of unity/union/communion, and the opposite of what is spoken of in the Royal Law of Love.
Yes, John . . .
1.) What is this Patristic consensus?
2.) Who proclaims it?
3.) What is that Church?
In Christ,
a generous orthodoxy - kirk yacoub - 25-07-2007
At the risk of being brief (!) I believe that whatever the Fathers did or did not say, whatever is or is not implied by those who seek to use the authority of the Fathers, is it not much simpler to return to the Gospel and read the words of our Lord and God Jesus Christ? Having absorbed these words, not so much into our minds as into our hearts, we can then check not only Patristic statements, but also whatever is taught regarding these statements.
Kirk yacoub
- admin - 25-07-2007
Dear Rick et al
I've been thinking about my transition from being part of a Plymouth Brethren community to being part of an Orthodox one, and trying to think about how I understand the differences.
I can see that in my own experience I was part of a Brethren community without being entirely Brethen, but I am now part of an Orthodox community while having only begun to be Orthodox. So I have and had no sense that membership of the community was related to being perfectly representative of a theology or praxis. I was part of that community and am part of this community because in both cases there was a commitment to a group of people and to a sense that this was the place to live out my Christian life.
On the positive side I would want to say that there was a great love for Christ among many people I worshipped and lived with. Some had a great knowledge of the Scriptures, though that had become rarer. There was a general desire to be more holy, more Christ-like, more devout. I would not wish to suggest otherwise, and though there were inter-personal issues in that community, there are such issues everywhere.
But there was much which even then I found missing. For most people, and certainly in the public teaching of the community, we had no spirituality beyond the daily scripture reading and brief prayer. (Though I do not doubt that there were some elder folk who were earnest in intercessions and loved the Scriptures). We rejected fasting, liturgy, saints, all sacraments and the particular priesthood. Indeed while I was there we had no full time ministers. I cannot remember praying even the Lord's Prayer there, and the one occasion the Apostles Creed was said together was when I was leading a service. We had no knowledge of any fathers at all, and Luther was considered an early Brethren figure, although had anyone visited a Lutheran Church they would probably have been horrified.
So I suffered from the loss of all these things, despite the love of Christ which was there, and I think we all suffered.
Because we were functionally congregational we also had the tendency to form interest groups and agitate for change in our direction. There was no overarching Tradition to prevent this. If you could get it approved by a majority then it would often change as desired. I have seen this in my own parents-in-laws church, a Baptist one, where a vote took place to allow church membership without the requirement of having been baptised - and this is a Baptist Church! The vote was defeated by one vote but I am sure it will come back. Indeed in the years I have known it the whole community has changed out of recognition, as did my own Brethen assembly. Not because of a lack of love for Christ, but because the democratic vote is the arbiter of theology and spirituality. Not a patristic consensus but a democratic one.
But many of us were looking for something more, and I have to say deeper, because that was a word we used. Self-help books that offered everything in three easy stages were not satisfying!
What am I saying? I think I am saying that while I will not judge any of those I shared my life with then, I can judge the system in which we lived, because we also judged it as defective. But I began the journey to Orthodoxy while I was there. I did not one day cease to be Brethren and become Orthodox. I was a Brethen on the way to becoming Orthodox for many years, and then someone on the outside of Brethrenism still following an unclear pilgrimage, and then only after many years did I become Orthodox while still becoming Orthodox every day. The journey does not end.
I wonder then if our Generous Orthodoxy is a communion of those on the same journey. Are we fellow pilgrims with all others who are looking for the same Kingdom? Perhaps we start from different places along the way? Perhaps others are still on the side roads but are walking towards the straight and narrow way? Should we be asking where folk are heading rather than where they have come from or where they presently are?
Just a 2p worth.
Re: a generous orthodoxy - Rick Henry - 25-07-2007
kirk yacoub Wrote:. . . is it not much simpler to return to the Gospel and read the words of our Lord and God Jesus Christ?
Dear Kirk,
Assuming you are aware of the issues surrounding your suggestion above, I would say yes, a thousand times yes[!] this sounds very good to me. But, possibly, as you know there are those who would burn both of us at the stake for suggesting such a thing (if the jail time were not so lengthy).
And, when you follow this up with:
Quote:Having absorbed these words, not so much into our minds as into our hearts, we can then check not only Patristic statements, but also whatever is taught regarding these statements.
I think again, how well put.
But, as we consider what you are suggesting here, especially as it relates to this discussion as a whole, we see even upon a superficial glance that the tide is against what is being proposed. Beginning with the production of the LXX, Septuagint and through today things are not approached this way as a rule.
For example, I have just begun studying what I will refer to as Orthodox Bibliology. Normally, when one studies Bibliology there is a focus on transmission and translation of the manuscripts and the versions that are derived from these, among other things. But, accuracy and translations faithful to the text are what is striven for here, and held up as the standard. And, I am probably not telling you anything that you don't already know here; but, I am working towards a point in all of this.
And, this point is that it appears the new Orthodox Study Bible of the Old Testament that is about ready for sale has an interesting history behind it. In fact as it relates to the field of Biblology, I am not sure where exactly this one fits, hence my reference to "Orthodox" Bibliology. What I am getting at here is this OSB is not a translation of any Hebrew Texts or even the LXX itself; but, this is a case where the New King James Bible has been taken and adapted to suit "Orthodox" beliefs. I find it interesting that the project manager and chief editor seems to have no language training. But, possibly this is explained in the following post from another site about the methodology being employed here:
Quote:The OSB project is using this foundation [New King James Bible] to bring forth a reverent, elegant, but readable text in English that conforms to the Orthodox textual tradition and interpretive norms.
I wonder if you caught the last part there . . . just after "Orthodox textual tradition" we see that this Bible is being conformed to Orthodox "interpretive norms."
And, this speaks to a mindset here, doesn't it Kirk?
But, let's say that even if this project would have begun with the LXX (let alone the Hebrew Scriptures), I wonder if things would have been any different in the end? Because, I am finding that the method used to prepare the OSB in terms of 'interpretive norms,' is the same as was employed by the ones who prepared the LXX. And, to help here I will quote another from another site, a priest/monk to make this point:
Quote:The LXX did represent changes from the Hebrew but of a kind which were seen as conveying the tradition of the Church in the context in which it found itself.
Yes, we did produce a Greek version of the Hebrew Scriptures, and yes, we did change the meaning of the words used in the text (possibly an early manifestation of the 'humpty dumpty clause'/HDC?), but it's okay because this was done to convey the tradition of the Church in the context in which it was a that time.
So, even though I fully agree with you when you say, wouldn't it just be much simpler to return to the Gospel and read the words of our Lord and God Jesus Christ? . . . I find myself in the minority here with this sentiment. And, it is not in reality a simple thing but a very complex thing in my neck of the woods, and possibly yours too?
What you have proposed stands in complete opposition to such things as what I have come to recognize as being an Orthodox hermeneutic as well as an Orthodox bibliology.
And, I am not familiar with your background; but, I would go so far as to say that the majority view, to be found within some parts of Eastern Orthodoxy, would support the position that what you have suggested is anti-Orthodox.
So on one hand, I agree with you it would be much simpler, but on the other hand this is a complex issue.
In Christ,
Thank You - Rick Henry - 25-07-2007
,Dear Peter,
Thank you for the heartfelt sharing provided in your last post. Especially in the following:
Quote:. . . still following an unclear pilgrimage, and then only after many years did I become Orthodox while still becoming Orthodox every day. The journey does not end.
For what it may be worth, I think this is a very beautiful picture that you have painted of a Generous Orthodoxy. This common ground that you describe, one of 'all others who are looking for the same Kingdom' gives me encouragement as it reminds me that as you imply above, the journey
continues . . .
In Christ,
a generous orthodoxy - kirk yacoub - 26-07-2007
Dear Rick,
In many ways you've answered the problem by telling us that the "OSB is
not a translation." If some people wish to "adapt" Biblical texts to suit their own particular purposes, then that will be to their enormous spiritual
I believe that it is quite simple to compare the various English language translations of the Bible to understand what was meant. Yes, ultimately, for those who have the time the study of the Hebrew, Greek and, very importantly, the Syriac texts will be the ultimate test. Yet this makes everything seem complicated, and the beauty of Christ's words is that they are not complicated, but extraordinarily straight forward.
Regarding relations between the two Orthodoxies (itself a misnomer),
the simplest thing is to start off with Christ's commandment to love our enemies and pray for those who do us harm.
Kirk Yacoub
- Rick Henry - 26-07-2007
Dear Kirk,
I don't want to bore everyone to death by taking the time to explain why your post speaks to me on such a deep level, but please know that it does and it is appreciated. Sometimes we minister to people in real ways without even realizing it, I think.
But, you have touched on a couple of things here that really do speak to the subject at hand. And, as you speak of loving others and praying for others, what better mindset, what better starting place could we ask for knowing that we do not all have the same calling.
I don't really want to get into bibliology much deeper here. Possibly, I may start another thread on this subject and we can really go to town on this. As you say it is quite simple to compare various English texts, but I wonder if you know how many of these English texts are adaptations of one another? As the NKJV serves as the "boiler plate" for the OSB, according to the 'Chief Editor' of the OSB project (love that term 'boiler plate' by the way) . . . I wonder how many are aware of which modern versions serve as 'boiler plates' for each other. So when the various English versions are laid down side-by-side, what is it that we are comparing? Or, if we were to look at the texts supporting the ones that were actually translated (as opposed to being 'adapted' as you well say), I wonder if we may well find that a strong reliance on the Latin text of Jerome, for example, has provided a 'boiler plate' of sorts for one of the major Greek texts [during a race to finish first] which is used by one or more of these English 'translations.' And, then the deeper you dig, the more you learn/know, it is true the more the Beauty is lost in some ways. And, then at the end of the day when it is acknowledged that while we have many manuscripts/fragements, we do not have any of the original "autographs." And, then from here we are back to where we started in some ways in terms of our Faith being a matter of faith.
And, even here, we see the same thing as in the above posts/questions. We can appeal to various manuscripts/texts/translations/versions/adaptations to provide both a foundation for our philosophy of Christian living and a foundation for our Christian apologetics, can't we? Just as we can appeal to various schools of thought to be found within Orthodoxy (which is One as you say), we can appeal to various church fathers, saints, lay and clergy writing theologians to provide a "theoretical justification" for all that we do and say.
But, at the end of the day, we are still left with the matter of our calling and the command to love each other (again as you well say, even our enemies!). And, as it relates to a Generous Orthodoxy, in relation to both the individual and the individual living in the community (if you will permit me to phrase it that way), there are two different schools of thought here. And, even this part of the discussion here in this thread is *not* a short conversation and needs much development, but we can dip our toe into these waters with a piece Peter Farrington has written in the past:
Quote:In all times and places and circumstances, love casts out fear.
And, to this, for your review, I would like to add another piece written elsewhere by a man known as "Herman the Simple:"
Quote:Everything we need to know about love, an infant already knows. We spend so much of our lives forgetting it. I relearned this from my grandchildren. Faith/Trust at its most elemental is so simple that it is scary. That is why we recoil from it and seek solice in esoteric "knowledge". But also, God challenges us according to our ability. Thankfully, being a bear of very little brain, God keeps it simple for me. For others, able to soar in the lofty Meyendorfian spiritual heights, He gives deeper understanding and perhaps appreciation. Of course, to the servant who is given much, much is expected, and for the servant who does not "use" his talent, even what he has will be taken away.
So, I guess enough here for today . . . but, again, please accept my humble thanks for your last post--it was appreciated.
In Christ,
A Generous Orthodoxy - John Charmley - 26-07-2007
Dear Rick, Kirk, Peter,
An interesting discussion here, and the line opened up by Kirk is a most intriguing one, and not, I suspect, just to us.
Like, I guess, many here, I grew up in a household which whilst not very religious, was of the opinion that what was necessary for salvation was contained in the 'Good Book' and that if I read it and did what it said I should not go far wrong; looking back from this vantage point I know now there was more wisdom in that simplicity than in many 'clever' things said to me since!
One of the things which drew me towards Anglicanism in my teenage years was a growing realisation that however right this view was, it also had huge limitations. The fact that the early Church had no 'Bible' as such, and that the canon came out of the life and consensus of the Church pushed me towards wondering how my feeble candle could illuminate what it had taken a Church to produce? Would I not, I thought, be better relying on the wisdom of the Church alongside my own reading, modifying the latter where it conflicted with the consensus?
That took me along a very well-trodden Newman-like road in relation to the Fathers, and since, unlike Newman, it did not draw me to Rome, I could rest sufficiently content, it seemed, with the 'Branch' theory of Anglicanism. Some hope! Along the way there were those who claimed to be able to read in the Bible support for almost anything they wanted; but this always seemed to involve reading particular texts out of a broader context, and interpreting them in a particular way. It was often very clever - but I often wondered whether it was right?
I found what Rick had to say about argumentative methods very true and horribly familiar. I remember once being quite overwhelmed by a very forceful female vicar who had at her fingertips more quotations than you could count to support the line she favoured about the ordination of women; but when I asked her where the idea came from, she was very honest in admitting that for her it was part of a wider agenda of female empowerment, and a little disconcerting in saying that as I generally supported such causes, she was surprised to see me taking such a reactionary line!
My own protestations that it was not 'reactionary' but simply 'orthodox' clearly lay outside her range of references, which were essentially the secular ones of 'progressive = good' and 'conservative = bad'. I could see that in a sense there was a 'group think' phenomenon in operation. It set me to wondering about the extent to which even something like an 'Orthodox mindset' might also be a 'group think', but decided, given the extent of Patristic writings, that the group was very large and persistent, and might even match up with Newman's 'what has been believed at all times and everywhere'.
The question 'by whose authority do you teach this?' seemed then, and seems now, the most relevant one. The Roman Catholics have a very form answer to this as it relates to divining the Word of God; for the Orthodox there is no single earthly authority - which somehow still seems to me more genuinely attuned to the idea of a Patristic consensus - which is why I raised that as a theme.
The temptation offered by the idea of a 'Generous Orthodoxy' lies perhaps in a syncretic 'anything goes' direction. One of the attractions for some of contemporary Anglicanism is that if offends few coming to it from outside. It makes few, if any demands, and forces few, if any, to search their souls. Is that really a generous reaction to a fallen world though?
I envy Kirk's gift for brevity - so will pause here!
In Christ,
- Rick Henry - 27-07-2007
Dear John,
I have never shot fish in a barrel before; but, if I did, I'm sure that I would find it has absolutely nothing in common with attempting to interact with your thinking/writing! (it's Friday, can we have a little fun--we don't' want to be too serious all the time--American whimsy and all ).
And, now in lieu of a smooth transition . . .
When you concluded your last post with the following:
Quote:The temptation offered by the idea of a 'Generous Orthodoxy' lies perhaps in a syncretic 'anything goes' direction. One of the attractions for some of contemporary Anglicanism is that if offends few coming to it from outside. It makes few, if any demands, and forces few, if any, to search their souls. Is that really a generous reaction to a fallen world though?
I thought, "boo" syncretic 'anything goes,' and no[!], that is not a generous reaction to a fallen world at all! And, then possibly provoked by your story about the female vicar where she:
Quote:. . . was very honest in admitting that for her it was part of a wider agenda of female empowerment,
I began to consider what you had said as it relates to such things as agendas.
In many ways this takes us right back to the beginning of this discussion . . . what are our motives? what are our intentions? are we agenda driven? or are we driven by Something else?
Do you see what I am saying here? Do we desire the God's will be done and God's Kingdom come (above all other particular interests)? Or do we desire something else? And, as I said above in another post, we all have our own callings, don't we? We are not all prophets or evangelists or pastors, and so on. We do not all have the same gifts. But, we should all be driven by the same thing I think, the aspiration to live in and the service of the Kingdom of God.
I am thinking now of the Indian man that owns a store in Peter's neck of the wood. This Indian man who I think is a Hindu is praying for Peter, and Peter is praying for him. And, I realize that this example kind of clouds the issue a bit, but let's keep up with it. From Peter's point of view, I would think that Peter is praying for the path of this Indian man to be one of the Path of Christ. In other words Peter is praying for the salvation of this man. So in this case what is Peter's agenda? What method is Peter employing?
Peter is not condemning this Indian shopkeeper. He is praying for the salvation of this mans soul. Peter is not judging him as a disciple of Satan and then walking away in disgust. It appears that he is praying for this man in love that he would know the love of Christ and become a learner of Christ. And, even more so Peter stands ready with a Christian education program to offer to this man if this would ever become a reality in the life of this man. To which I would like to suggest is a very good definition of a Generous Orthodoxy.
There is not syncretism here, there is not comparative theology at work, and best of all no solipsism anywhere to be found in all of this (as you have defined it elsewhere)! But, at the same time, there is no anything goes way of thinking involved in Peter's prayers and hopes for this man. As evidenced by his work here on this site and in other places there are clear-cut lines drawn as it relates to the proclamation of Christ, it is freely admitted that in the end, Peter and this Indian man do in fact stand on separate shores. But, there is a most heavenly balance here, isn't there? There is a most divine equilibrium employed here whereby the Truth is spoken in Love! All motives and intentions are on top of the table in a way that I think demonstrates very well a Generous Orthodoxy.
In Christ,
A Generous Orthodoxy - John Charmley - 28-07-2007
Dear Rick,
When you write:
Quote:we should all be driven by the same thing I think, the aspiration to live in and the service of the Kingdom of God.you cut to the heart of the matter. We pray every day 'Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven'; what is it we mean when we ask that the Kingdom of God should come?
Do we have more than vague ideas of what the Kingdom is? Does it matter if that is the case? How far does it translate for us into a vocation to live the Christian life here and now? How does that relate to 'right belief' and 'right worship'. One reason the Church matters so much to us is that it has been wrestling with these questions for nearly two thousand years, and can therefore provide us with a context in which can help work out our own answers; those answers are not 'our own' in the sense that we have to work them out and then assume they are right; we can derive them from the common stock available to us.
In that sense, Orthodoxy is generous to us all.
In Christ,
- Rick Henry - 01-08-2007
Dear John, Dear All,
Yes, John, as you say "the heart of the matter."
When we pray 'Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven,' are we just parroting something here, (let alone do we understand what we are saying) does this have any real meaning to us?
My daughter likes birds. We have a cockatiel named Karl Barth. Actually, Karl laid an egg last Christmas so the name has been changed to Karly. But, my daughter is in the market for an African Grey parrot now, so I find myself at an expensive bird shop from time to time. In this one bird store, I notice that sometimes after a parrot says something, it gives an exclamation of sorts when it finishes with a BWWWACK! And, as it relates to our present conversation, to be very blunt, I wonder sometimes if instead of a pause for consideration, such as the Hebrew 'Selah,' as we see in the Psalms for example, we ourselves are not more like a bird in a cage who really does not know what he or she is saying.
So I think your questions are questions that need to be asked lest we start considering the mannerisms of an Ostrich now. When you ask:
John Charmley Wrote:. . . what is it we mean when we ask that the Kingdom of God should come?
These question/statments can be interpreted differently by different folks I think. And, as you move to the subject of interpretation or possibly a Kingdom hermeneutic in the following:
Quote:One reason the Church matters so much to us is that it has been wrestling with these questions for nearly two thousand years, and can therefore provide us with a context in which can help work out our own answers; those answers are not 'our own' in the sense that we have to work them out and then assume they are right; we can derive them from the common stock available to us.
I do not think it is an understatement to say that we are moving toward 'the heart of the matter' here with great speed--'to the heart of salvation.'
Let alone knowing why we believe what we believe--so that we are not speaking as bird in a cage--let alone knowing the Truth (for ourselves) as true disciples of Christ, how can we find any degree of true freedom lest we join the conversation that has been going on for two thousand years now. Lest we actually participate in the Spirit of Life-the Life of Christ, which includes not always ease and comfort, but wrestling and struggling at times, how can we not just in reality be true spectators in the true sense of the word.
And, as it relates to sitting in the seat of the spectator, or choosing to stick one's head in the sand, what does this have to do with our daily prayer, when we pray 'Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven?' What does this have to do with the life of the Spirit of the Church? Or, more to the point, what does this have to do with Union with God?
That's right nothing.
And, I realize that there is a high degree of rhetoric being employed here at the present, but sometimes, I think, when one is trying to communicate to another who has his or her head buried in the sand, or has fallen asleep in his seat in the stadium, at times straight talk is necessary to awaken or engage in a meaningful dialogue.
So, hopefully, at the least there is cause for a pause for reflection in this post. God willing, we will not find ourselves in bondage to a system that leads us to 'believe' in the system itself over and above the Person of Christ. God willing, as we work out our salvation for ourselves, as we examine (dokimaso!) ourselves we will consider the 'common stock' and 'context' of a Kingdom hermeneutic as pointed to by the Church. And, knowing there is a time to be on our knees or on our face, hopefully, what we are considering now, will be from a sober and alert posture which prefers the 'Selah' over the 'BWWWK.'
In Christ,
A Generous Orthodoxy - John Charmley - 01-08-2007
Dear Rick,
One of the pleasures of having you here is that you move us to think about what it is we are doing; to make our Faith literally a lively one.
Perhaps I think I have Faith and believe that I am 'saved', but still the Tempter comes, and as St. James warns us (1:15):
Quote:1:14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.As St. Augustine wrote:
Quote:Because we are human, we live a most dangerous life among the snares of temptation[Letters, 250]Almost the most difficult thing at times is to obey the injunction in St. James 1:6 to 'ask in faith, with no doubting'. Yet if we have not Faith, we have nothing:
Quote:1:7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord;
Bede told us that the person who doubts that he will receive the heavenly gifts
Quote:will easily abandon his faith when he is tempted and be carried away into various sins as easily as if he were blown about by the windsAny 'system' that is not rooted in the Risen Lord is, itself, double-minded in the sense which St. James writes about. That is one of the reasons why the Church, as the living embodiment of the Tradition is not just a 'system' or a spiritual museum. At its best it offers us the support we need to nourish that Faith through the trials of this life; but how often does it fall short of that itself?
As you have said in a previous post, He commands us to love one another; yet how easily Christians have left themselves open to the rebuke that they spend most of their time doing the opposite? Not long ago I remember reading a proclamation from some of the Athonite Monks laying into the EP for receiving Pope Benedict; whatever provocation they thought they had received, their language was deeply shocking; almost as much as the defence of it by some on the grounds that it was 'tough love'. Where is the line between 'tough love' and sheer human willfulness and love of one's own point of view? There never was a tyranny that did not defend itself with the argument that what others thought was wrong was done for the highest motives; that does not automatically make it right.
One reason I am attracted to a generous Orthodoxy is that it seems to embody that injunction to love even our enemies. It is not empty of doctrine, it knows the importance of right belief and right worship; but it knows that part of both is that we should love each other as He loved us. Here is both a beginning - and an end.
In Christ,
a generous orthodoxy - kirk yacoub - 02-08-2007
Dear All!
Just to add that the great monastic Father, Anthony the Great warned us that we should expect temptation "to our very last breath." It has also been stated by other saintly monks that you can spend 99.9% of your life in prayer, fasting, vigil, and good works yet, at the very last moment, destroy the entire edifice by falling for one temptation. Hence the emphasis on vigilance, humility and self-blame.
Kirk Yacoub


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Top Definition
n. the excited anticipation of attempting, but failing, to pair your smartphone with a Bluetooth device
"I got these awesome wireless speakers, but I couldn't get them to pair with my iPhone! Total Bluetooth balls!"
додав Pauldylan 08 Січня 2013
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Can you define these popular missing words?
What a person gets when they are playing games online with a headset and start acting tough or telling in appropriate jokes, which they would not normally in public.
I'll fuck you up if you do that again pussy! Ahh shit someones got bluetooth balls.
додав L.T. Owens 08 Квітня 2011

subset: commoncrawl


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the term used to describe the male genetalia of an alien.
yo motha fucker, i got alien toed last night.
mambam23 tarafından 25 Mayıs 2008, Pazar
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Can you define these popular missing words?
1.the term used to describe the male genetalia of an alien 2.the term used to describe the definition of when an alien female has her space suit jammed up her crotch 3.the alien version of camel toe 4.the term used to describe male human toes
1.i was abducted by aliens and they all probed me with thier alien toes 2.i watched alien porn the other night and im facinated with alien toe fetish 3.Madison,CT is known as alien toe capital of the world
bigmonster tarafından 31 Mayıs 2008, Cumartesi
the male genitalia...
1. She liked to suck on his alien toe while he drove his big green truck. 2. He wacked his alien toe onto her toe cheese. 3. I made noises while working out like I was being mounted by his alien toe.
mambam23 tarafından 23 Temmuz 2008, Çarşamba


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A 35,000-pound excavator fell into Hampton Harbor last week.
A barge in the harbor began taking on water last Thursday. Then, a cable holding the excavator on the barge snapped, sending the excavator into 16 feet of water under the Hampton Harbor Bridge.
The excavator was being used as part of the Army Corps of Engineers' dredge of the harbor.
Crews are working to figure out when to get the excavator out of the water.
The excavator is considered a hazard because it is located in the boating channel and is not visible above the water.
A crane is expected to remove the excavator sometime soon. Crews were looking to remove it Tuesday, but postponed the effort due to water conditions.


text:
"Fit Mom, a California personal trainer, and mother of three, is responding to her latest controversial post.
'Fit Mom': I was banned by Facebook over Curvy Girl comment
Published On: Dec 06 2013 09:28:27 AM EST Updated On: Apr 30 2014 02:52:10 PM EDT
The views expressed are not those of this site, this station or its affiliated companies. By posting your comments you agree to accept our terms of use.blog comments powered by Disqus


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The 700E SERIES™ DOV® engine delivers breakthrough performance driven by technology that makes a difference you can SEE, FEEL and HEAR. The patented Direct Overhead Valve (DOV®) engine delivers more torque, improved sound quality, and less noise and vibration than competitive engines in the same class. The 700E SERIES engines are ideal to power lawnmowers for gardens up to 1500 square meters.
Significantly reduces noise and delivers exceptional tonal quality
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Provides more power resulting in improved equipment productivity
** Power levels are stated gross power (horsepower) per SAE J1940 as rated by Briggs & Stratton.


text:
Indie label; originated in the early 80s for post punk bands such as Gang of Four, Delta 5.
Now home to the strokes, moldy peaches, libertines, hidden cameras etc.
Now home to the strokes, moldy peaches, libertines, hidden cameras etc.
Rough Trade is rocking a rocking yoo!
by julie October 06, 2003
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Can you define these popular missing words?
Top Definition
"rough trade" is a slang term for a masculine working class man who has sex with men (sometimes as a male prostitute)
he worked in the industrial areas and was wary of the rough trade there.
by Karbean November 08, 2014
Someone, generally 'scruffy' looking, who participates in S/M type behavior.
He went down to the Dockside bars to look for some roughtrade.
by Wolf September 09, 2003
violent, often brutal sex acts, or a person, usually a male prostitute, who looks like they participate in such acts.
My boyfriend looks like rough trade.
by julie September 08, 2003
Dirty poor white trash or rednecks who want a good blow job but have a macho nature about them that says no; may or may not rough up the giver just a bit.
Sandy preferred rough trade when he was horny and wanted to give somebody a blow job. He liked being called names and getting slapped around. He also liked smegma.
by Richard Black March 14, 2005
A 1970's Canadian band lead by Carole Pope and Kevan Staples. They sang about wiggitywacklesbian themes. See High School Confidential.
...She makes me cream my jeans when she comes my way...--High School Confidential
by Agent Chainsawlady October 13, 2004
Females who are less than asthetically pleasing. Also can be females working the streets.
Those chicks are rough trade.
Youll want to stay away from that rough trade mate.
Youll want to stay away from that rough trade mate.
by Sven S September 23, 2005


text: Any performance here necessarily involves the landscape, like many ancient classical theatres - such as the view of Mount Etna from the theatre of Taormina (see Gallery 9, Album 1, Images 4-6). This 2003 performance was of Shaw's Arms and the Man, his updating of elements of the Henry IV- Henry V series (See Gallery 11, Album 12, Image 1 for analysis of Shaw's relation to Shakespeare). Most Shakespeare companies diversify their repertoire with analogous more modern plays


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Serves 4 |
Prep Time 25 minutes |
Cook Time 15 minutes
2 tsp Eden Toasted Sesame Oil
2 cups Eden Maitake Mushrooms, 1 package, soaked 20 minutes in warm water to cover, coarsely chopped
1 cup Eden Sliced Shiitake Mushrooms, soaked 10 minutes in warm water to cover
1 pound organic extra firm tofu, rinsed, drained, cubed
4 cups spinach, chopped, and blanched 2 minutes
1 Tbsp Eden Mirin
2 tsp Eden Shoyu Soy Sauce, or to taste
1 Tbsp lemon juice, freshly squeezed
1 cup fresh daikon radish, finely grated for garnish
Heat up the oil in a large skillet and sauté the mushrooms for 5 to 7 minutes. Add the tofu and sauté for 5 minutes. Add the mirin and shoyu. Sauté 1 minute. Add and spinach, mix and sauté 1 minute. Sprinkle the lemon juice over and top with grated daikon.
Eastern, Good/High Fiber, Good/High Protein, Japanese Food, Macrobiotic, No Sweetener Added, Oils, Side Dish, Stir-Fry, Vegan


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text:
|August 2013
Sue Bailey, User Services Group Leader
As head of ALS User Services for the past six years, my goal has been to make the ALS user experience as smooth and efficient as possible. I am constantly looking for ways to improve the processes for users to apply for beam time, register, complete their training, and coordinate experiments. I am a primary liaison with the ALS Users' Executive Committee (UEC) and we work together to ensure the success of the annual ALS User Meeting , which attracts more than 400 participants each year.
ALS User Services is currently transitioning from a dated software and database system to a new user portal, which will provide a much more interactive environment. The transition will be evolutionary, so users will notice many small changes over the next two years. We have already implemented some components, including the RAPIDD Proposals system, which complements the existing General User Proposal process. RAPIDD is a flexible system that allows users to obtain relatively short beam time allowances to perform single experiments. It provides rapid access to structural biology, small molecule crystallography, SAXS/WAXS, and tomography facilities. It is also the formal mechanism for applying for Director's discretionary beamtime and for submitting industry proposals. We will soon be rolling out an online user interface that will provide more intuitive ALS access. We are also working on software for an experiment tracking system, which will replace the current Experiment Safety Sheet.
Explaining and promoting science to the wider community is an essential role for all of us who work in science and at user facilities. This year I was fortunate to be elected to the National User Facility Organization (NUFO) steering committee and to help run a science exhibition to educate our elected representatives on the wide range of science and innovation happening at the ALS. I organized this year's NUFO meeting, which was held at LBNL, and it provided an excellent opportunity for ALS staff to contribute to discussions of new outreach ideas and best practices across national facilities.
The ALS values user input and ideas and there are both formal and informal ways for users to make their voices heard. The UEC is a very important link between ALS management and users; I encourage users interested in learning more about and helping to determine how the ALS operates to talk to current UEC members and consider running for election. The UEC will be looking for new members within the next few months. ALS also solicits input from users on our user satisfaction form—we like to hear what went well and where there is room for improvement. My door is always open and I encourage users to talk to me or other ALS staff so that we can help support their science.


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|2012-08-01, 10:56
|Link #12243
Hail the power of Fujoshi
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: hahahahahahahahaha
Age: 27
|2012-08-01, 14:51
|Link #12244
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Age: 22
Hello guys, I am a french newby on this site (forgive me for my bad english, I'll do my best ><).
I grew up with Captain Harlock since I am four (I am eighteen now), and I recently discover some awesome anime or visual novel like Evangelion, Yamato (I am an huge fan of Leiji Matsumoto), Gunbuster, MLA...
I am sure that I'll like it here.
A bientôt sur le forum !
|2012-08-01, 15:23
|Link #12245
Hail the power of Fujoshi
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: hahahahahahahahaha
Age: 27
|2012-08-01, 16:20
|Link #12247
Hail the power of Fujoshi
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: hahahahahahahahaha
Age: 27
|2012-08-01, 19:09
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Hello, everybody
I'm Darknessgod
18 years old
Every time I have to introduce myself, I don't know what should I say ^^'
My fav anime and manga is To Love-Ru
The Darkness and the God of Darknessgod come from Golden Darkness (TLR) - I want to write Darknessgold but I forget the l... but this name is good, so I keep this name since that day
Oh ! And before you ask about my poor english... I'm French =)
So with Joemenix who introduced yesterday, there is 2 french in a row...
Anyway, nice to meet everyone here
|2012-08-02, 01:22
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Hail the power of Fujoshi
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|2012-08-02, 05:05
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~Feel like a sir.
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|2012-08-02, 11:15
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Hello, my name is Simon.
I've been a writer and artist for quite some time, doing a number of different short-term projects for a number of different companies, ranging from gaming to graphic novels, mechanical drawing, topographical map details, short stories, ghost writing, etc.
Within the past few months, I found a home with a small publisher called Arcanum Syndicate. To date, they have put out two separate game lines, both the fantasy-style Dark Kingdoms, and the gritty futuristic Chaos 6010 A.D. The Chaos 6010 A.D. Role Playing Game is a gritty cyber-goth horror setting focused on a dark future in which magic has been rediscovered through the assistance of alien races, Earth has been rendered into a wasteland of horrors by an apocalyptic event, and corporations secretly control the galaxy. I currently work on the Chaos 6010 line, having provided the bulk of the writing and artwork for a singular product to date (Chaos Contracts; Tides of Sin), and I have a few other projects currently in various stages of completion.
I have always had a fondness for both science fiction elements, and fantasy. Many times I would begin my own works based in either genre, only to get about halfway through it and long to work in the other genre. Thankfully, the combination found within Chaos 6010 allows me to combine elements of both, from faster-than light spacecraft to demon summoning, from plasma sword fights on alien worlds to shooting elves in the face.
As one of the primary writers for Chaos 6010, I often get asked about my inspirations. One of the greatest inspirations for my writing comes from some of the greater anime movies out there. Chaos 6010 is a brutal and bloody game, where characters can suffer from being the unfortunate recipient of a hail of bullets, leaving them near lifeless and crumpled on the ground. However, they can always be saved by a quick acting party member with access to healing magic.
One of the biggest inspirations is the Vampire Hunter D series, where the world seems a bit desolate, technology is both highly advanced, yet seemingly mundane. The world is populated by mutants, supernatural creatures, and mercenaries. The Marcus brothers would merge seamlessly into the wastelands of Chaos 6010 Earth, fighting against the undead that stalk the wasteland.
Within the city of Haven, I've drawn inspiration from a number of sources, from Akira for the shadowy corporate conspiracies and biker gangs (I've almost included the Clowns in an upcoming product), to Battle Angel for the obvious class warfare (the lofty members of society and the detritus that feeds from their refuse). The cyberthieves from Battle Angel are an inspiration for an entry in the upcoming Chaos 6010 product called "Urban Encounters".
Another inspiration for the wastelands is the planet Gunsmoke from the Trigun series, with vast stretches of desert with sparse settlements and small towns. Unusual characters travel through, including people from the city looking to take care of some business.
Of course, there are almost too many inspirations to name, predominantly due to the amount of post-apocalyptic and cyberpunk elements found within a number of anime. Appleseed, Ghost in the Shell, Golgo 13, and Megazone 23.
As a final note, yes, I have even been inspired by Urosukidoji, as I find parallel elements of the horrific demons that enter the world through a spirit gate, and the destruction caused within the film.
Last edited by Daniel E.; 2012-08-02 at 15:29.
|2012-08-03, 06:22
|Link #12252
Hail the power of Fujoshi
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: hahahahahahahahaha
Age: 27
|2012-08-04, 21:53
|Link #12254
Join Date: May 2012
Welcome to the forums GDiddy. This is definitely the place to chat about anime, if you must know. It is nice to know that your are an anime fan and so you know, watching animes for years does not mean you don't have a life. If you could breathe, eat and drink....you alive.
Once again Welcome and i hope you have a good time here.
|2012-08-05, 01:21
|Link #12255
Hail the power of Fujoshi
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: hahahahahahahahaha
Age: 27
|2012-08-05, 19:54
|Link #12259
Jinzo FTW
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: London
Age: 26
My names Zee, been watching anime since 2001 and kind of slowed down over the years, thought I join a forum. I'm a huge yu-gi-oh fan (been playing since 2002) and still going strong.
I use to have an account on the forum in 2007 but never bothered making many posts but this time hopefully I will.
Catch you guys soon :L.
|2012-08-06, 01:04
|Link #12260
Hail the power of Fujoshi
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: hahahahahahahahaha
Age: 27
|introduction, new members
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LINQ to XML API and VB 9.0
- Posted: Mar 09, 2007 at 11:11AM
- 3 comments
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The next version of VB .Net adds Xml as a built in data type using the new LINQ to XML API. As a built in data type, VB 9.0 provides the ability to create XML using XML Literals and to query XML documents using XML properties. This webcast contains a demo by David Schach, the lead developer in this project, of creating a program to share pictures over the internet.
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Dan Beard, one of the founding fathers of Scouting, has left a remnant of his past in Northeastern Pennsylvania. The Dan Beard Outdoor School for Boys was located on the premises of what is now the Woodloch Pines Resort. It has been donated by the Kiesendahl Family to the Northeastern Pennsylvania Council, Boy Scouts of America to be erected at Goose Pond Scout Reservation. The school's Headquarters cabin has been dismantled and is now in storage in Scranton.
We need help to raise enough dollars to re-assemble "Uncle Dan's" cabin and have it become part of Boy Scout living history at Goose Pond. There is a strict deadline for re-assembly of the cabin, to ensure the stability of the original American Chestnut logs. If any of the logs deteriorate, there are no available replacement logs available in the United States. Today, the locally harvested logs are considered rare and extremely valuable.
Immortalize your son, his troop, your favorite Scout leader, Eagle Scout, service project, yourself, your family, or a family member. You can also place a paver "In Memory Of" someone special by purchasing one of the two differently sized pavers that will provide a walkway at the entrance to Dan Beard's Cabin.
Be sure to visit the Scout Shop in the NEPA Council Service and Training Center after Summer Camp to become a Founding Member of the "Dan Beard Cabin Society". For a donation of $1.00 or more you will receive a membership card and get to sign the "Fort Pitt Door" founder's book which will be on permanent display at the Dan Beard Cabin once it is reassembled.
$500.00 + Donation will receive –
An original piece of log from the cabin with a brass plate.
$1000.00 + Donation will receive –
A laser printed log slice with a wooden plank base. Both pieces original to the cabin.
$2500.00 + Donation will receive –
A plaque with an original log slice and a brass plate.
$5000.00 + Donation will receive –
A Cabin picture mounted behind an etched original glass window pane in a frame made from original cabin wood.
The Northeastern Pennsylvania Council, Boy Scouts of America has begun the process of relocating and restoring an important piece of Scouting's history.
This cabin, the last remaining part of the Dan Beard Outdoor School, a camp run by Daniel Carter Beard in Lackawaxen Township, Pike County, PA is being disassembled and moved 12 miles to Goose Pond Scout Reservation. This process is not a small undertaking, but by relocating and keeping this 1926 Kiva style log cabin in Upstate Pennsylvania we are not only preserving its history but are also honoring a beloved founder of the BSA, Dan Beard himself.
These pages will explain the history of the cabin and detail the restoration process. You will also be able to follow the project through our collection of pictures and images.
This project is being made possible with help from the many volunteers who are giving their time and labor freely. It cannot be completed, however, without the contributions and generosity of supporters like you. CLICK HERE to find out more about the Dan Beard Relocation Project or how to make a monetary donation to pay the costs of the relocation and rebuilding.
Preserving this cabin, this piece of history has significant meaning not only to the early beginnings of the Boy Scouts of American, but to Daniel Carter Beard and his association with the Northeastern Pennsylvania region. His original summer home, Wildlands, burned down in 1961. The other buildings of the Dan Beard Outdoor School for Boys no longer exist or have been moved. That makes this Kiva style log cabin the last remaining part of Beard's Outdoor School. Relocating and keeping the cabin in the NEPA region is important to preserving not only this history but it is also a tribute to a beloved founder of the BSA, Dan Beard himself.
In 1887, Daniel Carter Beard and his brother James first purchased property on Lake Teedyuskung in Lackawaxen Twp, Pike County, PA. The property was eventually deeded in full to Dan Beard. He built a log cabin in 1887 known as Wildlands as a summer home. In 1916 The Dan Beard Outdoor School for Boys was incorporated and the summer camp program began to take shape.
Dan Beard met Abner McPheters at an outdoor conference and designs for an additional log cabin on his property in Lackawaxen Twp, were formulated. Abner McPheters was a outdoor guide, lumber operations manager, and cabin builder from Maine. A deal was struck and McPheters came from Maine with five loggers (two are known at this time as Little Joe and Elmer) to construct the Kiva style cabin in 1926. The cabin was built on the East side of Welcome Lake Road which is now owned by Woodloch Pines. The purpose of building a Kiva style cabin is that it is well suited to be used as a large assembly room. This Camp Headquarters cabin was designed for that purpose. It is a 28' x 30' rectangular log building with walls reaching to the steeply pitched roof. Joists were placed during the construction (see photo) on the top of wall girders in a N-S orientation to accommodate a hanging room known as the Orioles Nest, which was placed at right angles in a East West direction.
This nest was constructed to float on the rafters so as not to take away from the rooms spacious appearance. The floor of the second level is locked into place by a king post that runs from the roof's ridgepole to the second floor joist and held in place by wooden pegs. It was effective in reducing vibration and springing of the floor. Stairs were built on the NW side of the room leading to the Orioles Nest. The loft is surrounded with a "U" shaped balcony referred to as a "Romeo and Juliet" balcony.
An extension with a lean-to style roof is located on the east side of the cabin and contains 4 small rooms to be used as bedrooms and offices. The desire was to maintain focus on the cabins' use as an assembly room. A porch extends from the NW side and continues to the South side of the cabin. A stone fireplace with a puncheon mantel was constructed on the east side of the assembly room. To build it, they first constructed a open face wooden box to be used as a form for laying the stones. Once the stones were laid and chimney finished, a fire was set burning the wooden form from the fireplace.
The front door of the cabin was referred to as a "Fort Pitt" door. It was constructed by using small tree trunks with one side flattened (puncheons.) Each puncheon was attached together to make 2 panels. A frame was constructed and the panels attached to each side. These panel seams were offset and covered on the insides sealing the seams to reduce air seepage. The outside panel overlapped the frame to complete the seal when the door was closed. One of the Maine Loggers, Little Joe, forged the metal hinges in Hawley at a blacksmith shop and hand carved the latches and handles for the door.
January 16, 2001 - Some Boy Scouts are trying to save a piece of scouting history in the Poconos.
Boy Scouts young and old got to work Sunday on an old cabin near Hawley.
"We're pretty much de-chinking now, which means taking the stuff out from between the logs," explained Boy Scout Giancarlo Iona.
This is not just any cabin. It is the Daniel Beard cabin, named after one of the original founders of the Boy Scouts.
Lackawaxen Twp. — Woodloch Pines Resort has donated a historic cabin on their property to the Boys Scouts of America. The log cabin was used by one of the Scouts' founders in the first half of the 20th Century.
The Northeast Pennsylvania (NEPA) Council of the Boy Scouts of America has plans to move it to the Goose Pond Boy Scout Reservation about 12 or 15 miles away, in Paupack Township.
The Northeastern Pennsylvania Council of the Boy Scouts of America was approached by representatives of Woodloch Pines Resort in Pike County Pennsylvania in the fall of 2009 concerning the possible donation of a log cabin that is on a property they purchased. They would like to use the property for purposes that requires the removal of the log cabin. The cabin was constructed by Daniel Carter Beard, a founding father of the Boy Scouts of America, for use at his camp. The cabin will be demolished and lost forever if it is not taken at this time.
The Northeastern Pennsylvania Council authorized the formation of a Dan Beard Cabin Committee to study the possibilities and ramifications of accepting the donation of the Dan Beard Cabin at its November 2009 Annual Meeting. The study, now complete, includes the historical importance of the Cabin, how the cabin will be used, the site location, estimated costs and possible fundraising ideas/sources.
The Executive Board of the Northeastern Pennsylvania Council, Boy Scouts of America after careful consideration and determination of findings has approved the reconstruction of the Dan Beard Cabin at Goose Pond Scout Reservation.
The building will be a multi-functional space with no one proposed use precluding the others. We believe that these uses are compatible with the cabin's original uses by Daniel Carter Beard when it served as his camp headquarters building and will serve the Boy Scout program at Goose Pond Scout Reservation well.
The cabin will be located on a site between the Capouse campsite and the COPE (Challenging Outdoor Personal Experience) course, on the lake side of the camp road. The cabin will be used as the headquarters of the "Pathways" Program for brand new Scouts at summer camp, Troop winter camping, Leadership Development Training Programs and events, meetings, and other special events such as Eagle Scout Ceremonies and Boards of Review. The cabin will include a small museum/interpretative area pertaining to Daniel Carter Beard and the History of the Cabin.
The construction will occur in three phases for funding purposes but may be constructed in a single phase if sufficient funds are secured. The construction is further subdivided into seven stages. The committee has engaged an experienced log cabin builder to estimate the costs of the reconstruction, which is estimated at a total of $207,250. It is anticipated that some of the work will be completed with volunteer labor, borrowed equipment and donated materials, which will reduce this cost. The first phase of the reconstruction may be completed for an estimated cost of $143,550.
It has been determined that funding for this project should not negatively impact the funding of normal operations of the Council. A number of potential funding sources have been identified. It has been determined that 110% of the funding required for any stage of construction be secured as cash before beginning that stage to ensure that the cabin project does not result in a negative impact on the Council's debt position.
Extensive research has been accomplished on Daniel Carter Beard, his Pike County camp and the log cabin which has confirmed that this cabin was constructed at Dan Beard's camp in 1926 and was used as the camp headquarters and meeting area. Some of the interesting historical significance of this cabin is presented in Appendix 1.
The cabin can be used for a number of non-conflicting, compatible uses. This requires that no singular use be implemented in such a manner as to preclude the other uses.
Possible uses of the cabin include:
Other uses were discussed and determined to be inappropriate due to the nature of the building or to its connection with Daniel Carter Beard, or incompatible to other preferred uses. Uses discussed and determined to be inappropriate include:
The log cabin will be located at the Northeastern Pennsylvania Council's Goose Pond Scout Reservation located in Paupack Township, Wayne County, Pennsylvania. Goose Pond is less than 15 miles from the current site of the log cabin and is the closest existing Boy Scout Camp to the former Dan Beard Camp. Goose Pond provides a setting where the best uses for the cabin can be realized. It was also determined that Goose Pond is in need of additional winter camping facilities, and an inclement weather program area during the summer camping season which this cabin will provide.
Within the Goose Pond property, a number of specific site locations for the building were discussed with the site located off of the camp road between the Capouse/Delaware campsite and the COPE course on the lake side of the road being selected. A map of the selected site is included in Appendix 2. The description of the location selected is as follows:
Cabin Site – is located between Capouse and COPE course on lakeside of the camp road. Recommended due to relatively gentle slope of the site, some woods, convenient location for summer camp program area, proximity to COPE course for possible use until a new building is constructed for COPE.
The log cabin has experienced some decline over the years. The logs are found to be in excellent condition, but the roof and porch decking require replacement. Woodloch has new roofing materials stored near the cabin and have agreed to donate them to the Council with the cabin. These materials have laid in storage for approximately two years and are being moved and stored properly in a new location at Goose Pond Scout Reservation.
Through research of the cabin, it has been determined that the cabin also had a lean-to roofed extension on the back and a loft area called the "Oriole's nest" by Beard. The main effort shall be to reconstruct the main cabin and porch at Goose Pond. But it is also desirable to reconstruct the extension and the Oriole's nest. Plans of the proposed cabin reconstruction noting the proposed three phases of the construction process is included in Appendix 3. The three phases are noted as follows:
Phase 1 – construction of the main cabin and porch. It also includes the foundation walls for Phase 2 and the one wall of the extension due to log jointing requirements. The cabin will be constructed on a spread footing foundation and crawl space. Foundation piers will provide support for the porch.
Phase 2 – construction of the lean-to extension. This space will provide four rooms. Two will provide separate winter sleeping areas for adults or women and be used as office/ program areas for summer camp. A third room provides kitchen space to eventually include a sink when water and sewer utility service is provided to this area of camp. The fourth area will initially be used as storage, but eventually be converted to a bathroom when water and sewer service is provided. The extension is constructed on a concrete foundation with a full basement storage space underneath for summer storage of winter camping equipment (e.g. cots) and winter storage of summer camp program supplies. The basement is day-lighted on the lake side of the structure for full access.
Phase 3 – Oriole's Nest – The loft area known as the Oriole's nest provides an interesting historic context given Beard's authoring of a "Boy's Life" magazine article pertaining to it in 1930. This phase of construction is the smallest but may pose the most challenges regarding construction methodologies, given that those employed in the initial construction are not adequate by today's standards. A new beam and support design will need to be employed. The stairway to the nest is also challenging.
Construction may proceed with only Phase 1 and then have Phases 2 and 3 follow, or begin with Phases 1 and 2, or construct all 3 phases as once, depending upon the availability of funding.
The Committee has also recognized that the construction process may be further defined by smaller increments in order to meet the initial needs of securing and properly storing the available roofing materials, removing the building from its current site to meet Woodloch's needs and beginning the process as soon as possible as sufficient funds are secured for each stage, instead of waiting for the total project funding to be in-place. Construction stages have been identified as follows:
Stage 1 – Secure and properly store the roofing materials donated by Woodloch
Stage 2 – Disassemble, move and store the cabin
Stage 3 – Site prep at Goose Pond Scout Reservation
Stage 4 – Construct Foundation
Stage 5 – Cabin construction Phase 1 (main cabin and porch)
Stage 6 – Cabin Construction Phase 2 (lean-to extension)
Stage 7 – Cabin Construction Phase 3 (Oriole's nest)
Considerable effort has been made to estimate the probable cost of all labor, equipment and materials required to complete the project. The committee was fortunate to find an experienced log cabin contractor, The Cabin Doctor, who visited the site with committee representatives and provided multiple revisions to cost estimates as the construction requirements were defined and refined. A detailed estimate of costs is presented in Appendix 4. A summary of costs by Stages identified in the previous section of the report is as follows:
|Stage 1
|Stage 2
|Stage 3
|Stage 4
|Stage 5
|Stage 6
|Stage 7
The committee has determined that funding for this project should not negatively impact the funding of normal operations of the Council. Suggested parameters for the Cabin's funding plan are presented in Appendix 5. Possible sources for funds identified and discussed by the committee include:
6:00 pm 09/30/2016 - 11:00 am 10/02/2016
Webelos STEM Weekend
10/01/2016 9:00 am - 1:00 pm
Den Chief Training
Commissioner Training
10/05/2016 6:30 pm - 8:30 pm
DB - District Commissioners
10/05/2016 6:45 pm - 8:45 pm
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10/05/2016 7:00 pm - 9:00 pm
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10/08/2016 - 10/10/2016
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If you need help with your Scout unit, or just a new uniform, the staff of the Scout Service and Training Center is here to help you make Scouting successful in Northeastern Pennsylvania.
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text:
Windows 8 & C++
- Posted: Apr 03, 2012 at 12:25AM
- 2 comments
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The presentation is not up to mark !!!
"Life time management" slide... the presenter say why '^' symbol not '*', he don't know. He is floating around with his words. He gives an impression that he is not very comfortable himself with C++.
Overall poor presentation.
@freefly Sorry but I disagree. I really enjoyed this video and found his explanation of why using ^ instead of * was a very good one. * is reserved for real pointers (which should only be used in special circumstances in "modern" C++ 11 style coding). ^ is reserved for auto ref counted handles (or garbage collected objects in the case of C++\CLI or maybe in the future of C++\CX). Great job and thanks for this video.
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Top Definition
Well. A wuss is a person who is weak... And a puss is a woman's dick.
Hey, stop being such a wuss puss and light the fuse.
από A.R.G. (R.I.P.) 3 Αύγουστος 2010
Trending Now
Can you define these popular missing words?
the act of being such a wussy your considered to be a pussy therefor a wusspuss
stop being such a wimp you wusspuss
από christophorus 9 Αύγουστος 2010


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So, Patrick Stewart is not a pizza virgin, after all.
"People misunderstood. There was a school of thought that I had eaten my first pizza, but of course how could that possibly be true? I would have had to have stayed locked up in a cellar," the British-born actor and Brooklyn resident, best known as Captain Jean-Luc Picard in Star Trek: The Next Generation, told New York Thursday in response to his Wednesday Twitter post showing him enjoying, in his words, "My first ever pizza 'slice.' "
"But nevertheless," Stewart, 72, said in his own defense, "this was my first slice of pizza, which I was only eating because my fiancée and I were a little hungover yesterday morning and she said what we need is pizza and a soothing drink – and she was right. It solved the problem."
But as for the question about his past pizza experience, Stewart said, "In fact, it was my first slice, and when it was brought over to me, my first comment was 'There's no knife and fork.' "
Still, Stewart admitted that pizza was, for a time, a novelty to him – something he'd only heard about as a child, listening to songs on the radio with his brother.
"And one of them," he said, "was a Dean Martin hit called 'Amore.' And the song began, 'When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie.' Well, my brother and I had never seen a pizza, didn't know what a pizza was; we had never heard the word before, so it made no sense to us."
Rather than find out, Stewart simply dropped the word "pizza" from the line, explaining, "So for years, whenever I was singing along, I would sing those words, until one day somebody said, 'What are you singing?' And I said, 'A big piece of pie.' And he said, 'Idiot, it's pizza pie.' "
Stewart said he was in his 20s before he had even laid eyes upon a pizza. "I know that will sound bizarre to you," he said, "but I grew up in a small community in northern England."
Patrick Stewart Clarifies His Pizza History
Courtesy Patrick Stewart


text:
Some people use statistics to try to figure out their chances of getting cancer or of being cured. Statistics show what happens with large groups of people. Because no two people are alike, statistics can't be used to know or predict what will happen to a particular person.
These are statistics from the American Cancer Society about Kaposi sarcoma (KS):
About 6 out of 1 million people in the general U.S. population get KS each year.
In the U.S., KS occurs more frequently in men than in women and rarely in children.
In the past, one in two people with HIV was at risk for developing KS. That number has now dropped due to improvements in treatment for HIV/AIDS.
Organ transplant recipients can also get KS. About one out of 200 people who have transplants in the U.S. gets KS, primarily due to previous infection with the Kaposi sarcoma herpesvirus.


text:
on November 7, 2012 - 10:31 PM
LOCKPORT – A planned expansion of the Lafarge North America stone and gravel quarry drew the attention of the Town Board Wednesday.
The board set a public hearing for 7:30 p.m. Dec. 5 on creating a special mining district that would allow Lafarge to expand the size of its 90-foot-deep quarry about 162 feet closer to the north side of Hinman Road.
Town Attorney Daniel E. Seaman said the town's 2005 zoning ordinance banned mining, except for those with pre-existing permits such as the ones held by Lafarge.
But the company, which has been buying up property along Hinman in recent years, wants to expand, meaning an exception to the zoning law is needed.
The mining district would allow Lafarge to mine a strip of land about 4,000 feet long and 162.75 feet wide, immediately south of the current boundary of its quarry, which now ends 300 feet north of Hinman.
The allowed width of the strip is based on a state Department of Environmental Conservation formula pegged to the depth of the quarry, Seaman said.
In other matters, the board unanimously approved a 2013 town budget that will bring small tax decreases to most homeowners.
"The Town Board worked very hard to make this as close to a no-change budget as possible," Supervisor Marc R. Smith said.
After public hearings at which no one spoke, the board passed the nearly $14.4 million document, which increases total spending by 2.46 percent, or $345,699.
The total amount to be collected in property taxes is to rise 0.93 percent. Despite that, the bill for a $100,000 home in most of the town will decrease by $6.42, to $695.92. The $100,000 assessed value is the town average outside of the Carlisle Gardens and Lincoln Village subdivisions.
In Carlisle Gardens, where the average assessment is $110,000, the average tax bill will decline by $7.64.
In Lincoln Village, where the average home has a $70,000 valuation, the reduction will be $4.50.
The budget includes 2 percent pay raises for elected officials and 3 percent increases in the contractual payments to the five fire companies serving parts of the town.
Smith's 2013 salary will be $50,245. Each of the four councilmen will be paid $9,664, except for the one designated as deputy supervisor, who will make twice that amount, or $19,328.
Highway Superintendent David J. Miller will earn $61,379; Town Clerk Nancy A. Brooks will be paid $49,813; and Town Justices Leonard G. Tilney Jr. and Raymond E. Schilling will each earn $25,699.
The fire company payments are $337,959 to South Lockport; $321,779 each to Rapids and Wrights Corners; $25,082 to Terry's Corners; and $22,379 to Gasport.
email: firstname.lastname@example.com


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Emergency Preparedness
Our mission is to effectively respond to any emergency impacting public health through preparation, collaboration, education and rapid intervention. VDH Emergency Preparedness involves state, regional and local emergency response partners working together to enhance readiness to respond to all hazards, including bioterrorism, infectious disease outbreaks and other public health emergencies.
Would You Be Ready if There Was an Emergency?
Be prepared: assemble an emergency supply kit, make your emergency plans, stay informed, and be involved in helping your family, your business, and your community to be ready.
The Virginia Medical Reserve Corps (MRC) is a force of dedicated volunteers who stand ready to support the community in the event of a public health emergency. Each of the 31 local MRC units is comprised of teams of medical and public health professionals who, along with interested community members, volunteer their skills, expertise and time to support ongoing public health initiatives and assist during emergencies throughout Virginia.
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Jennifer Lopez and boyfriend Casper Smart shared a romantic dinner on Friday night at Cecconi's in West Hollywood.
Although the couple had some "security-looking" personnel with them, they still managed to "canoodle at the table," an onlooker tells PEOPLE.
Wearing a dress and sequined jacket, Lopez looked "stunning," while Smart kept things casual in slacks and a top.
"They were sweet together and Jennifer was laughing all night long," the source adds.
While there were no huge public displays of affection, the couple sat on the same side of the table and stayed close throughout their meal.
– Melody Chiu
Spot a celebrity? Tweet us your sighting— People magazine (@peoplemag) August 7, 2012
@peoplemag with #CITA and it could appear on PEOPLE.com!