text:
Projected Cubs Free-Agents through 2009
After seeing this, I
After seeing this, I seriously hope we don't trade Jerome Williams. He could be a solid #3 starter for 4 more years before we have to worry about him cashing in on the open market. His performance should outperform his salary for the next 4 years.
Interesting. I'm not sure
Interesting. I'm not sure how this affects my thinking on Prior for Tejada.
AZ Phil, if Tejada were traded to the Cubs, would that count as his one chance to demand a trade during the middle of a multi-year contract? Or could he then demand another trade?
Drew, I agree Jwill will be
I agree Jwill will be an effective player for us and should not be traded unless it is for an impact player.
Tejada could still demand a trade after a trade happens.
AZ Phil,
Did you get a chance to see Angel Guzman pitch in the AFL. If you did what was the velocity on his FB was it where he was at before the injury or has he indeed like Tbone's sources think he has lost something?
Andrew, I could be wrong,
I could be wrong, but I don't think Tejada's demand is the same as, for example, Vazquez'. The Orioles don't have to trade Tejada, the Diamondbacks had to trade Vazquez because he was traded to them in the middle of a contract. Tejada could demand another trade if he were traded i believe.
AZ Phil, Shouldn't Jacque
AZ Phil,
Shouldn't Jacque Jones also be listed under "FREE-AGNET AFTER 2008?" I assume you made this list in a thread posted before his signing.
#5 of 5: By shawndgoldman
#5 of 5: By shawndgoldman (December 28, 2005 07:21 AM)
AZ Phil,
Shouldn't Jacque Jones also be listed under "FREE-AGNET AFTER 2008?" I assume you made this list in a thread posted before his signing.
SHAWN: Yes!
I just re-posted the list I posted here a few weeks ago. I'll fix that.
Thanks, bud.
#2 of 6: By Andrew (December
#2 of 6: By Andrew (December 28, 2005 06:53 AM)
Interesting. I'm not sure how this affects my thinking on Prior for Tejada.
AZ Phil, if Tejada were traded to the Cubs, would that count as his one chance to demand a trade during the middle of a multi-year contract? Or could he then demand another trade?
ANDREW: If the Orioles do trade Miguel Tejada, it won't be in response to Tejada "demanding" a trade. He does not have that right. What Tejada is doing right now is merely "requesting" a trade.
Here are the circumstances under which a player can legally and officially DEMAND a trade:
1. Must have a minimum of five years of MLB service time.
2. Was traded by one club to another after signing a multi-year contract with the first club.
3. There are at least two years left on the contract.
4. The player must file the trade demand during the "Free-Agency Filing Period" (first 15 days after the end of the World Series).
5. Club has until March 15th to trade a player who has legally and officially demanded a trade.
6. The player can rescind the trade demand anytime prior to March 15th (as long as it's before he gets traded).
7. Player can designate up to six clubs to which he will not accept a trade.
8. If the player does not rescind the trade demand and the club fails to trade the player by March 15th, the player AUTOMATICALLY becomes a free-agent, the player's contract is voided and he gives up all salaries still outstanding from the contract, and the club does not receive any compensation when and if the player signs a contract with a new club.
9. Any player who gets traded after filing a trade demand under the circumstances listed above cannot file for free-agency for three years, and cannot file another trade demand (should new circumstances qualify him to do so) for three years, either.
EXAMPLE: Free-Agent Javier Vazquez signed a four-year contrct with the Yankees after the 2003 season, and was subsequently traded to the Arizona Diamondbacks (for Randy Johnson) after the 2004 season. After the 2005 season, Vazquez filed a Trade Demand (which was his right) during the Free-Agency Filing Period, and the D'backs had until March 15th to either trade him or allow him to become a free-agent.
Recently, the D'backs traded Vazquez to the White Sox for three players.
Because he was traded after the 2005 season, Vizcaino cannot be a free-agent until after the 2008 season, even though his contract expires after the 2007 season. So after the conclusion of the 2007 World Series, the White Sox will have exactly five days to decide if they wish to offer Vizcaino salary arbitration (strictly a club option, which Vizcaino cannot refuse) for 2008.
If the White Sox choose to not offer Vizcaino salary arbitration at that time (after the 2007 season), Vizcaino is considered "non-tendered," immediately becomes a free-agent, and the White Sox would receive no compensation should Vizcaino sign with another club.
If the Cubs were to acquire Miguel Tejada in a trade this off-season, he would have one opportunity to demand a trade, and that would be during the "Free-Agency Filing Period" during the 15 days immediately following the 2006 World Series. If Tejada were to demand a trade at that time, the Cubs would have until March 15, 2007, to trade him, and Tejada would get to name no more than six clubs to whichb he would refuse a trade.
If the Cubs fail to trade him by March 15, 2007, Tejada would immediately become a free-agent, and he would lose the $38m in salaries left on his contract.
If Tejada demands a trade after the 2006 season and the Cubs DO trade him prior to March 15th, then Tejada can be a free-agent after the 2009 season, which is when his contract expires, anyway.
#3 of 7: By chifan3887
#3 of 7: By chifan3887 (December 28, 2005 07:14 AM)
AZ Phil,
Did you get a chance to see Angel Guzman pitch in the AFL. If you did what was the velocity on his FB was it where he was at before the injury or has he indeed like Tbone's sources think he has lost something?
CHIFAN: Yes I did.
When I saw Guzman pitch in in the AFL in October, I sat directly behind home plate each time and I got a good look at him.
A scout with a radar gun who was also sitting behind home plate told me that Guzman's four-seam fastball topped out at 97MPH and his two-seamer topped out at 93MPH (the same in two different outings), and both his curve and change were sharp (the times I saw him, anyway).
Watching Guzman pitch, he showed absolutely no ill effects from his "strained forearm" or previous shoulder problems, his motion was fluid, and the only negative I noted was that he started to tire in his 4th and 5th innings of work (around pitch #50) , and lost the "bite" on his breaking ball and control of his four-seamer (which was probably because he hadn't pitched much in 2005).
My opinion is that the Cubs were very cautious with Guzman in 2005, and maybe even sort of babied him. I doubt that will happen again in 2006. I expect him to start the 2006 season at Iowa, and will be "first call" if the Cubs need another starter.
He still has the stuff (four "plus" pitches) to be a top-of-the-rotation starter, and it would surprise me if he is not in a major league starting rotation in 2007, if not sooner.
"The Orioles don't have to
"The Orioles don't have to trade Tejada, the Diamondbacks had to trade Vazquez because he was traded to them in the middle of a contract. Tejada could demand another trade if he were traded i believe."
Ah yes, that's right. Thanks Jeff.
Very helpful, Phil.
Very helpful, Phil. Thanks.
This adds even more to think about in the Prior-Tejada deal.
Drew--GREAT point about
Drew--GREAT point about JWill in #1, I hadn't even considered that. But, Az Phil, that's just because the Cubs have the "rights" to him, correct? If he does really well, they have to offer him arbitration or non-tender him?
And, as always, Az Phil, you are the best at doing the awesome research (or just having the knowledge) the rest of us don't, or don't have time for. A BIG thank you.
#11 of 11: By Tony (December
#11 of 11: By Tony (December 28, 2005 08:02 AM)
Drew--GREAT point about JWill in #1, I hadn't even considered that. But, Az Phil, that's just because the Cubs have the "rights" to him, correct? If he does really well, they have to offer him arbitration or non-tender him?
TONY: J. Williams will be eligible for arbitration after 2006, 2007, and 2008. He is still an "auto-renewal" as of right now. He was VERY close to qualifying as a "super two" this year, but I believe he missed by just a very few days.
As I recall, the MLB "super twos" eligible for arbitration will come from a list that includes Grant Balfour (Minnesota) Erik Bedard (Baltimore), Coco Crisp (Cleveland), Michael Cuddyer (Minnesota), Jason Davis (Cleveland), Jody Gerut (Pittsburgh), and Reed Johnson (Toronto).
Bedard is an absolute "lock" to be a "supe two" because he has 2+171 MLB service time, but I'm not sure how many of the others I listed qualify, and in what order. I don't think the MLB office has made the announcement yet.
ON ARAMIS: I thought he was
ON ARAMIS: I thought he was signed to a four year deal as of 2005. That would mean free-agent eligible after 2008 season. Does anyone think the Cubs would consider Jeff Weaver to add to the unstable bullpen? Also, is Preston Wilson an option as an additional OF platoon guy? Inquiring minds want to know...
AZ Phil, Thanks for the eye
AZ Phil,
Thanks for the eye witness account of Guzman. I know he walked more people than he did before his injury but that could just be attributed to rust.
I have no doubt that my friend is right when he says there are many who say Guzman is done. You just never know if they're parroting what a guy in the front office heard from a scout a year before or what. My friend didn't know the origninal source of the Guzman is through rumor which always made me dubious about its validity. My next email will be to my friend with your account of Guzman's stuff pasted in.
#10: "This adds even more to
#10: "This adds even more to think about in the Prior-Tejada deal."
Yes, absolutely. It would be incredibly Hendry-esque to trade Prior for Tejada and then have Tejada demand a trade - thus reducing his value and making a time-intensive pressure packed 2007 offseason.
By the way Manny the fact that Hendry is deteriorating as a GM has nothing to do with how incredibly crappy and insane Baker is. The two ideas are not mutually exclusive. In my eyes Hendry is a far better GM than Baker is a manager. And I think Hendry is kinda bad now. Baker? probably the worst manager I have seen in my 35 years watching the cubs. Probably? Easily! And I have seen some BAD managers in cubbie blue.
#13 of 13: By The E-Man
#13 of 13: By The E-Man (December 28, 2005 08:29 AM)
ON ARAMIS: I thought he was signed to a four year deal as of 2005. That would mean free-agent eligible after 2008 season. Does anyone think the Cubs would consider Jeff Weaver to add to the unstable bullpen? Also, is Preston Wilson an option as an additional OF platoon guy? Inquiring minds want to know...
E MAN: Aramis Ramirez signed a $42m (guaranteed) four-year contract in April 2005 with a player option after 2006 and a possible 5th year worth an additional $11m (mutual option) in 2009 which becomes a vesting option if he plays 270 games in the years 2007 & 2008.
On ARAMIS II: Thanks -
On ARAMIS II: Thanks - however, the list places him as free agent after 2006 ("player option for 2007).
I saw Angel Guzman pitch in
I saw Angel Guzman pitch in the AFL as well, only once though, but I agree with AZ Phil. My impression was that his velocity is what I recalled from seeing him in ST 2003 but that it didn't have the "whip"-type effect as before, a little less side-to-side movement. This could be an indication of him "taking it easy" or it could be a slight mechanical change, which would not be unusual. He did not throw many breaking pitches but the ones I saw went for strikes. He was still very impressive, one of the best pitchers I saw in the AFL (OK, I think Jared Weaver was the best...the Angels system is loaded).
As for "super twos", I think Balfour qualified and that is principally a reason why Minnesota non-tendered. Balfour is one of those guys who could pop up on some roster in two years, drop a sub-3 ERA in relif and everyone will ask, "Where did he come from, and why am I paying $X million for (Howry/Veres/Remlinger/Hawkins...insert your favorite free agent RP signee here)?"
I think Hendry intentionally kept JWill down in AAA with at least the partial intent of keeping him from being a "super two".
E MAN: It's kind of
E MAN: It's kind of confusing. I have Aramis Ramirez listed at two places on the list (after 2006 with a player option, and after 2008 with a mutual option or vesting option), depending on whether he exercises his player option afte 2006.
I could have listed him as a potential FA "after 2009," too (if the mutual option is exercised, or if the vesting option kicks-in), but I thought listing him twice was plenty!
How then does it possibly
How then does it possibly make sense to trade Prior? Wouldn't we all rather see him walk after 2008 if theres a good chance Tejada could be gone in 2007? Can someone explain why Hendry even considers this? Our pitching would be so weakened if we lose Prior who still has 3 years here, I could understand him going after a guy younger than Tejada who would be guaranteed to stick around through 2007.
"if theres a good chance
"if theres a good chance Tejada could be gone in 2007?"
I don't think that we can assume that yet. Yes, the possibility is there. But per AZ Phil's list of conditions for demanding a trade, that possibility exists for acquiring many players via trade. It needs to be taken into consideration, but I don't think we can assume that Tejada would definitely opt out. This isn't like Vazquez, who was traded against his wishes. Tejada has asked for a trade, and behind closed doors, is apparently sticking to that request.
P.S. Let's remember too that
P.S. Let's remember too that Tejada is guaranteed big bucks for the next several years. If he did come to the Cubs and if he did demand a deal, the Cubs could just let him walk (stupid, I know) and he would forfeit all of that money.
Say what you want about the FA market, his value would take a hit, and it seems unlikely a player would give up as much money as he is owed.
Andrew, Why would you
Andrew, Why would you speculate he would make less money than Furcal (WHo is making more this yearthan Tejada?) if he went trade demand in 2006/2007 offseason? There is no way his value takes a hit . . .
What I meant to say is that
What I meant to say is that Furcal makes more than Tejada . . . he owuld likely make more money if he kept up his numbers.
I could be overstating that,
I could be overstating that, SuperJimmer, but to me, many would start to view him as a Manny-type player. Very good, but very moody.
I still think he'd get at least Furcal money, no doubt. I don't think he'd earn as much as he would without all this trade talk mess thus hurting his value.
BoSox have offered Manny and Clement for Tejada, but the O's don't want to trade Tejada within the division
O's prefer Z over Prior and don't want to part with Bedard and says the teams" haven't come close" and says the Cubs are believed to be the "most aggressive suitors."
And there was a potential 3 team deal with the A's and the O's getting Zito and Prior but that was dismissed when Zito's agent (Arm Tellem) said Zito would not sign a long term deal with the O's.
[Re Prior/Korey/Hill for Tejada/Bedard
"Despite a report on WMVP 1000-AM that the trade was on the table awaiting a decision, a Cubs source told the Daily Herald on Tuesday that no such offer has been made."
Is is safe now to ignore everthing Levine ever spits out on the air?
How about Z, Hill, and
How about Z, Hill, and Dopirak/Sing for Tejada, Bedard/Cabrera, and Penn?
On Tejada, et. al. Fellow
On Tejada, et. al.
Fellow Cub Obsessives: Should we all stop all obsessing on this trade that probably won't happen and move on to a Plan B or C? How can the team become better with what is realistically available before spring training (before other clubs pick up the stragglers)? J Weaver? EByrnes? PWilson? It seems to me that one mid-rotation pitcher plus a compliment to JJones that can hit lefties should give the team a shot to hit 90 wins. Any thoughts on the above?
The Cubs should deal Prior
The Cubs should deal Prior for Tejada. Tejada would put that need of power in the Cubs lineup. And then if I were the Cubs, I would sign Jeff Weaver, and somehow make a trade to the Red Sox for Matt Clement(trade Eric Bedard, who the Cubs would get in the Tejada deal, and a prospect to the Sox). So, the rotation would look like this:
1. Carlos Zambrano
2. Kerry Wood(if healthy)
3. Matt Clement
4. Jeff Weaver
5. Greg Maddux
Re #28, Andrew, No way do I
Re #28, Andrew,
No way do I trade Z, Andrew. IMHO it is only conceivable to trade Prior because of (1) his injury history, and (2) his re-signability factor.
If the price for Miggy has gone up because of Boston's offer, then I would much rather us focus on trading for Zito. Hill/Murton/Weurtz/Rusch for Zito and Payton would be a major upgrade for our rotation, we could then piddle around with Payton or Preston Wilson or perform a mid-season trade for a corner OF. This plays to our strengths -- starting pitching better than the rest of the division and Hendry's ability to make good mid-season trades.
E-man, Hendry has said he
Hendry has said he would like to get another starter. I bet we continue asking after Zito, regardless of the Tejada deal. Jeff Weaver? I hadn't thought about him, but I'm not sure that I want to.
Andrew: "There was some
"There was some surprise expressed yesterday on another thread that Mark Prior wonít be a free-agent until after 2008"
There you go, you believe me now??? Thanks!!
Even MORE reason why this trade SHOULD NOT happen. Unfortunately it is in the hands for Angelos and not our GM to stop it.
"There you go, you believe
"There you go, you believe me now??? Thanks!!"
Only because you agree with AZ Phil! You're welcome!
"Unfortunately it is in the hands for Angelos and not our GM to stop it."
Well, according to the Daily Herald, it isn't on Angelos' desk, at least not yet. "Thanks!!"
Unfortunately it is in the
Unfortunately it is in the hands for Angelos and not our GM to stop it.
What does that mean?
Sipperjimmer: " I think
" I think Hendry is kinda bad now. "
Good to hear, not say that half as much as you say Baker is worse and we have a very fair and good start. :)
"Good to hear, not say that
"Good to hear, not say that half as much as you say Baker is worse and we have a very fair and good start. :)"
Manny, what in the hell did you just say?
ANDREW, et. al.: Jeff Weaver
ANDREW, et. al.: Jeff Weaver I think gives greater upside as of 12/28/05, than does having Jerome Williams in the starting rotation. While his track record is spotty, particularly with the Yankees, he is experienced and has some nasty stuff. Re ZITO, Billy Beane is not going to take Corey Patterson and an I-Pass card for him. The Cubs I believe just don't have the correct ammo that the A's would be interested in, in my opinion. I'd be very, very surprised if the Cubs were to acquire either Tejada or Zito in any trades before the season.
Andrew: "Say what you want
"Say what you want about the FA market, his value would take a hit, and it seems unlikely a player would give up as much money as he is owed."
WHAT??? If Furcal just signed for $13 million per year, you don't think Tejada would sign for over $15 million??? He would definately, no doubt, get a raise if he was able to go to Free Agency right now. A decent size one too!!!
Weaver has a career 4.44 ERA
Weaver has a career 4.44 ERA and it's been over 4 the last 2 years despite pitching in the ultra-pitcher friendly NL West. He's crap. Especially for whatever he's going to end up costing...
Rob: True enough in some
Rob: True enough in some respects. Certainly he is better than Mitre! That's what's left now, unfortunately. Isn't Larry Rothschild supposed to be a miracle worker? What other pitcher OTHER than Zito is availble and actually obtainable in MLB that could help this team. After all, Rusch was 1-12 with the Brewers...Josh Fogg?? Help me here.
"Good to hear, not say that
"Good to hear, not say that half as much as you say Baker is worse and we have a very fair and good start. :)"
Change the "not" to "now".....Sorry!
Don't trade Prior, go in
Don't trade Prior, go in with Z, Prior, Maddux, Rusch, (Hill, Guzman, Williams if he's still around) until Wood is ready
And Wood will pitch the whole season without going to the DL, once they let him start.
"As I recall, the MLB "super
"As I recall, the MLB "super twos" eligible for arbitration will come from a list..."
Jody Gerut qualified for arbitration. He was signed to a one year/$0.875 contract the other day. Erik Bedard...arb eligible. Coco Crisp?..yes. Michael Cuddyer?...yes again. Reed Johnson was arb eligible and signed a $1.425 contract. (What a nice player he is. Trains very hard in the off-season.)
Jason Davis? ...don't think so...but don't quote me.
"And Wood will pitch the
"And Wood will pitch the whole season without going to the DL, once they let him start."
I hope you had your eyes closed and were trying to do some kind of Jedi mind thing when you said that, because that is a very bold statement. I like it, but it's bold.
Ol' Bruce is at it again,
Ol' Bruce is at it again, saying the White Sox have re-signed Garland for 3 years, $29m.
WSCR is reporting it to, and
WSCR is reporting it to, and they say its furcal money. Damit Garland is probably going to BAL with Uribe for Tejada and Loewen.
I like it, but it's
I like it, but it's bold.
Not really, Matt Morris had the same surgery and has had similar arm problems as Wood has had in his career and he survived last season. I'm not saying anything beyond 2006, but it's a pretty fair guess that Wood will survive 2006 without much incident and be something reasonably close to his 2003 self.
Garland was a free agent,
Garland was a free agent, right? If so, they are not going to trade him unless that was part of the deal but that still makes no sense. If Garland was a free agent, the O's could have just signed him outright.
Chad- Garland was
Garland was arb-eligible, not a FA. 3 years $29 million. Lots to pay for a career .500 pitcher who had only a great 1/2 year. But hey, the CHW payroll is now past or at least equal to the Cubs. Give them credit for actually spending the money.
Garland had one year left
Garland had one year left before being a free agent, he was arb-eligible.
I kinda agree with Rob G. on
I kinda agree with Rob G. on Wood. The surgery was just done last year to Morris, like Rob said, AND more importantly, this is his contract year. How many times do you see guys have great years the last year of their deal when they know they will be entering in to FA. Hopefully teh Cubs can get the benefit of Wood's contract year and get a nice year out of him finally.
what manny said :) I've
what manny said :)
I've lost track...what are the 2 teams payrolls now?
Chad, Garland was in his
Garland was in his last year of Arbitration. One of their pitchers needs to get traded and the two deals that make the most sense are the one I mentioned in the in post 47 and a Mccarthy for Crawford swap knowing how Ozzie wants a no.2 hitter so he can drop Iguchi to the 6 hole.
Garland would become a free
Garland would become a free agent next year.
Rob- I posted the otehr day
I posted the otehr day the breakdown for teh Cubs and it was at $95 million. On teh radio they are saying the CHW are in teh high 90's low 100's. I am not sure of their exact contract details. But they did add a bunch this year (Konerko, Thome, Garland, etc)
Rob G.- Here is what I
Rob G.-
Here is what I posted the other day about the Cubs payroll. I am not really familiar with the details of some of the White Sox contracts. I was just going by what they said on the radio.
Kinda bored, sere is the contract/budget breakdown thus far as things stand:
Michael Barrett - $4.13M ($4.0M base + $130K prorated signing bonus)
Henry Blanco - $1.5M
Ryan Dempster - $5M
Scott Eyre - $3.7M ($2.7M base + $1.0M signing bonus)
Bobby Howry - $4.0M ($2.5M base + $1.5M signing bonus)
Jacque Jones - $4.33M ($3.0M base + $1.33M prorated signing bonus)
Derrek Lee - $8.67M ($8.0M base + $670K prorated signing bonus)
John Mabry - $1.075M
Greg Maddux - $9.0M
Neifi Perez - $2.5M
Aramis Ramirez - $10.5M
Glendon Rusch - $2.75M
Todd Walker - $2.5M
Scott Williamson - $2.0M
Kerry Wood - $12.0M ($11.0M base + $1.0M prorated signing bonus)
Ronny Cedeno - $350K
Matt Murton - $350K
Will Ohman - $350K
Jerome Williams - $350K
Michael Weurtz - $350K
Jerry Hairston - $2.0M
Corey Patterson - $2.8M
Juan Pierre - $5.0M
Mark Prior - $5.0M
Carlos Zambrano - $5.0M
***These figures do not count any possible incentive bonuses & does not count the $500K buyout of Jeromy Burnitz contract***
Also, the ARBITRATION numbers are just my quick estimates. I did no research to justify them. If you think I am way off base, please don't go crazy and just let me know. Thanks!!
so let's get this straight,
so let's get this straight, now with similar payrolls (yet to be finalized)
the WS Champ WSox have added Thome, Vazquez, Mackowiak and resigned Konerko
the below .500 Cubs have added Pierre, Eyre, Howry, Jones, Mabry
I just threw up in my mouth...
Z probably gets at least $8
Z probably gets at least $8 mil in arbitration, Pierre I would guess gets $6 to $7 mil, the rest seem close enough.
can someone explain just HOW
can someone explain just HOW mark prior is under club control in 08?
Rob G.: "I just threw up in
Rob G.:
"I just threw up in my mouth..."
Crunch: "can someone explain
"can someone explain just HOW mark prior is under club control in 08?"
Like I explained yesterday, Priro had 2+131 days of service time through 2004 season. So through 2005 he had 3+131, through 2006 he will have 4+131, through 2007 he will have 5+131 (short of the 6 years needed to be a free agent. So he will be under Cubs control through 2008.
I'm sure someone can give a
I'm sure someone can give a better description than this but..
2002 - Less then 1 year service time
2003 - 1
2004 - 1
2005 - 1
2006 - 1
2007 - 1
2008 - 1
6+ years of service time
You have to reach 6 full years before you become a FA and he's currently at 3+
#60 of 60: By crunch
#60 of 60: By crunch (December 28, 2005 11:09 AM)
can someone explain just HOW mark prior is under club control in 08?
CRUNCH: Prior won't have six years of MLB service time until after the 2008 season. He is presently at 3+131.
i was under the impression
i was under the impression that any % over the amount of service time is rounded up to count toward accumilated service time as long as they're on the 25-man.
thanks everyone.
A friend just called and
A friend just called and siad he heard on WMVP that the Sox have signed Garland to a three year contract that tops out at 12 million the third year.
maybe you were thinking of
maybe you were thinking of this...
"If a player spends 20 days or less of the season on optional assignment, the player is given service time for the entire season. This is to prevent various shenanigans if calling up a player at the end of April to buy an extra year of rights."
Rob G -- I seem to recall
Rob G -- I seem to recall that one of the supposed secret reasons the Cubs had for waiting until May (i.e after 20 days) to call up Prior in that first year was for exactly those "shenanigans" (i.e. to steal an extra year). Anyone else remember that?
Hey Chad -- Re-posting from
Hey Chad --
Re-posting from the prior (pun intended) thread, how about a friendly TCR wager:
If you can find me even a single GM who thinks that Prior is currently the "absolute best pitcher in all of the MLB" (as you put it), I will change my TCR moniker to "433IsADope" for a day.
If you can't find one by Sunday, you have to go with "CHADIsADope" for a day.
433, Yes. And I think they
Yes. And I think they did the same thing with Wood.
anything is possible for the
anything is possible for the conspiracy theorists, but the guy hadn't pitched an inning of minor league ball yet, they weren't going to put him straight in the majors. His first start was May 22nd...
I seen just now that the
I seen just now that the White Sox have inked Jon Garland to another contract avoiding arbitration. Another outstanding move by Kenny Williams, now what is up next under his sleeve. Williams has 6 starters and 6 very good starters, what is wrong with trading Garland back to the Cubs or one of their other starters for Patterson and a minor leaguer or a PTBNL.
Wood's first start was April
Wood's first start was April 12, 1998, the conspiracy theory doesn't hold...
"...what is wrong with
"...what is wrong with trading Garland back to the Cubs or one of their other starters for Patterson and a minor leaguer or a PTBNL."
Because Patterson wouldn't get you a starting pitcher off an American Legion team.
"what is wrong with trading
"what is wrong with trading Garland back to the Cubs or one of their other starters for Patterson and a minor leaguer or a PTBNL."
You're joking, right?
what is wrong with trading
what is wrong with trading Garland back to the Cubs or one of their other starters for Patterson and a minor leaguer or a PTBNL
Sure, then we can trade Neifi and an A-baller for Tejada. :)
The Garland deal is
The Garland deal is supposedly:
For a total of 3 years - $29M.
Now, that is a great deal if he pitches klike he did in the first half od 2005. But if he pitches like he has the rest of the season or the rest of his career, then it will be a bad deal. But if McCarthy does well this year, they can always use him as trade bait around the trading deadline.
Rob G. I stand (or actually
Rob G.
I stand (or actually sit on my ever widening ass) corrected.
I'm not sure I'd call it a
I'm not sure I'd call it a conspiracy theory. Who knows if that had anything to do with the call-up timing -- there are a lot of factors that go into those kinds of decisions.
Having said that, something tells me that if the rule were 40 days rather than 20 days, Cubs management would have found some compelling reasons to keep him in the minors until June...
The Garland resigning wasn't
The Garland resigning wasn't a radio scoop. It has been up on chicago.whitesox.mlb.com all morning.
Stop picking on Jerry. His
Stop picking on Jerry. His trade scenario makes about as much sense as any of yours do.
I was kiddin' anyway,
I was kiddin' anyway, whatever, it's good businesss by the Cubs. Get as much out of them as you can for as long as you can. Doesn't hurt anybody but Prior's bottom line which is doing just fine.
Uh. Trading a sub- .220
Uh. Trading a sub- .220 hitting outfielder for an 18 game winner is a little unrealistic. Even with a prospect or PTBNL. So Jerry's offer is a little dreamy. But I don't think Williams and Hendry would deal for Garland anyway, Williams is a little too close to home for Hendry - knows he is on the seat.
garland worth 10m a year?
garland worth 10m a year? yow..the market really is weird. no...i dont like him at all...not any more than a person could like aaron sele or similar anyway. at least you know he'll show up for work and throw 200ip.
#68 of 73: By 433 (December
#68 of 73: By 433 (December 28, 2005 11:24 AM)
Rob G -- I seem to recall that one of the supposed secret reasons the Cubs had for waiting until May (i.e after 20 days) to call up Prior in that first year was for exactly those "shenanigans" (i.e. to steal an extra year). Anyone else remember that?
433: I don't believe the 20-day optional assignment rule (anti-shenanigans) was in the previous CBA. It was unique to the 2002 agreement. So when the Cubs optioned Prior to Iowa out of Spring Training in 2002, there was no rule like that. Players got credit for as much service time as they actually spent in the majors, and clubs were charged an "option year" on a player even if the player spent only one day in the minors that year.
The reason both sides agreed to the new 20-day optional assignment rule was because the owners did not want to lose an option year if a player was sent down for a short period of time (less than 20 days), and in return for the club getting that "option year" back, the player gets credit for a full year of MLB service time.
The Cubs did not lose an option year on Matt Murton when they optioned him to Iowa for 11 days in August (19th through the 29th), and Murton received MLB service time credit for the entire 11 days he spent at Iowa. If the Cubs had left Murton at Iowa until September 7th, however, the Cubs would have lost an option year, and Murton would not have received any MLB service time credit for his time at Iowa.
The 20-day rule still won't preclude a club from sending a player to the minors to "buy" another year of control, though. It just has to be a stay of 20 days or more for it to count.
Jon Garland is not
Jon Garland is not un-touchable for one and two giving the White Six three players in the deal and the three players would be from a pool good players, good prospects with Patterson being one of the players in the pool. You all need to look a little harder at Garlands stats. To me, even though he won 18 games last year, I would consider the White Sox #5 starter, behind Contreras, Garcia, Buehrle, Vazquez. Brandon McCarthy is ready to pitch every 5th day, and Neal Cotts can be a very effective starter.
Phil -- interesting. I am
Phil -- interesting. I am certainly no expert on these kinds of things, but I do recall this being discussed over the airwaves back in 2002. Could be wrong, though.
Jerry - I think the Sox
Jerry - I think the Sox consider themsleves to have a surplus of Outfielders . . . I can't see them being interested in Patterson/Pie . . . and plus Hendry likes to fleece or be fleeced. If he did it with Williams it would be a mess. But mostlythe Sox don't need what we have.
Now from the Cubs
Now from the Cubs perspective I would consider Garland to be too expensive and risky/erratic.
probably mentioned somewhere
probably mentioned somewhere else but Burnitz is signing with the O's, they must love our Right fielders. He'll be playing left apparently and here's the kicker......$12 mil for 2 years.
Agree with superjimmer that
Agree with superjimmer that Garland would be risky, but risky long term. He is not overpowering, and will give up the gopher ball.
And you are again right that Hendry and Williams would not be able to get anything done as Williams wouldn't want to wait on Hendry and his powerless gestures.
yeah, allegedly the O's are
yeah, allegedly the O's are gonna play gibbons in RF, though he has a weaker arm compared to burnitz...go figure.
guess that means walter "hey, you gonna eat that?" young gets to play 1st. dude makes david ortiz look like a health nut.
#30, I have been a
I have been a proponent of acquiring Weaver ever since the off-season the season ended. I think he would be a great 3 starter, albeit, he can be inconsistent, he wouldn't cost entirely too much and can't believe he hasn't been talked about more. On second thought, he might not sell for so cheap after the contracts Milwood et al signed for.
WSox aren't going to be
WSox aren't going to be interested in prospects right now, there in it to try and win it again this year. Garland or McCarthy goes to land an everday player and a pretty decent one too, most likely.
Not a big fan of Garland at all, but his perceived value is quite high right now.
guess that means walter
guess that means walter "hey, you gonna eat that?" young gets to play 1st. dude makes david ortiz look like a health nut.
Isn't Javy the 1st basemen by default at the moment? Conine could also serve that role. Young was built to be a DH.
Holy Christ, that Walter
Holy Christ, that Walter Young is 6'5' 322lbs. Can we trade Kpat for him. And then flip him to the Bears for a PTBNL?
#87 of 90: By 433 (December
#87 of 90: By 433 (December 28, 2005 11:52 AM)
Phil -- interesting. I am certainly no expert on these kinds of things, but I do recall this being discussed over the airwaves back in 2002. Could be wrong, though.
433: No, actually I wasn't trying to infer that you were wrong. I think it IS likely (VERY likely, in fact) that the Cubs DID option Kerry Wood to Iowa in 1998 and Mark Prior to Iowa in 2002 mainly to buy another year of control toward free-agency.
All I was saying was that the 20-day rule didn't have anyting to do with why the Cubs optioned Wood and Prior to Iowa, and that the 20-day rule really doesn't prevent "shenaniganss," anyway.
Clubs just have to make sure that the player on optional assignment stays in the minors for at least 20 days now. If the rule had been in effect in 1998, the Cubs would have had to make sure to leave Woody down at Iowa for a couple more starts longer than they actually did, and they probably would have done just that (if necessary) to "buy" that extra year of control.
Prior was down at Iowa for about six weeks in 2002 before he was recalled, so it wouldn't have mattered if the 20-day rule had been in effect in March-April-May 2002. He spent about 40-50 days at Iowa in 2002 before the Cubs recalled him.
Chicago Cubs 2006 Category:
Chicago Cubs
Category: Starting Pitching
Carlos Zambrano, workhorse, if not injured could win 20 games.
Mark Prior, oft injured, is always a question, will the real Mark Prior please stand up.
Kerry Wood, unlike oft injured Mark Prior, Wood is always injured, and is a huge question.
Greg Maddux, is growing older and older, but his experience in the dugout and clubhouse is worth his contract.
Jerome Williams, young un-proven, won 6 games last year and was rocked at times. A good pitching coach could help not only him but the rest of the staff.
Glendon Rusch, lefthander, we all wonder what his role will really be in í06, never the less, just an average pitcher.
Angel Guzman and Rich Hill, digging down deep into some young arms if any of the above fail.
Relief Pitching
Scott Eyre, thought it would be a good idea to start off with the Cubs best, the #1 and #2 Cubs relief pitchers, good luck Scott.
Bob Howry, good live arms with both Eyre and Howry, lets hope we can keep them in the roles of setup men, because I question Dempster.
Ryan Dempster, the closer, had a good year last year, and hope he keeps on shutting the door, and has more than 32 saves in í06.
Will Ohman, a pretty good lefthander, needs to stay focused and healthy.
Todd Wellemeyer, Todd can be effective at times.
Michael Wuertz, Wuertz is like Wellemeyer, both will probably pitch a lot of innings in í06.
Scott Williamson, came back from surgery and didnít throw bad at the end of 2005, I think he will pitch well in 2006.
Michael Barrett, steady with the bat and some power, defensively just average, doesnít call a good game with the pitchers.
Henry Blanco, a flip-flop of Barrett.
1B- Derrek Lee, what can I say about this guy other than he was robbed of a most deserving MVP last year, hope he can keep it up.
2B- Todd Walker, looks like Todd will be the second baseman, good bat, less than average defensively without much range.
SS- Ronnie Cedeno, I really want to see this kid play everyday, but I have this terrible feeling Dusty will have Neifi Perez in there.
3B- Aramis Ramirez, Our third sacker for a long-long time, and a good one.
LF- Matt Murton, I really liked what I seen from him when the Cubs called him up , I wish him well, he should be outstanding.
CF-Juan Pierre, what the Cubs needed for years, speed at the top, with a better than .275 BA, I look for him to steal 50+.
RF- Jacque Jones, Just a slight upgrade from Jeromy Burnitz, Burnitz worked hard for the Cubs last year, hope that Jones does too.
Batting Order and Projection
Juan Pierre-CF .283 BA, 62 stolen bases
Todd Walker-2B .277 BA, 12 home runs
Derrek Lee-1B .288 BA, 31 HRís, 112 RBIís, 12 stolen bases
Aramis Ramirez-3B .265 BA, 34 HRís, 119 RBIís
Jacque Jones-RF .259 BA, 26 HRís, 89 RBIís (hardly a #5 hitter)
Matt Murton-LF .270 BA, 16 HRís, 67 RBIís
Michael Barrett-C .275 BA, 15 HRís, 65 RBIís
Ronnie Cedeno-SS .260 BA, 4 HRís, 39 RBIís, 10 stolen bases
With this being Jim Hendry and Dusty Bakerís last contractual year will the Cubs contend for more than half of the season before letting them go. Maybe Andy McPhail needs a change of scenery also. There is way to many questions in the Cubs starting rotation for me to consider them contending for the entire season. Unless Hendry can pull off a trade to upgrade the Cubs starting rotation, and Derrek Lee continues to produce and the rest of the offense contributes.
I look (as the roster stands as of 12/28/2005) for the Cubs to finish in 5th place behind Houston, St. Louis, Milwaukee, and Pittsburgh.
Goodbye Jim, Dusty and company.
Ah, OK got it. I am on
Ah, OK got it. I am on vacation so I my reading comprehension skills are lacking...
yeah seriously, what can the
yeah seriously, what can the Cubs do to help the Bears win now? Let's concentrate on the plausible!!! :)
"I have been a proponent of
"I have been a proponent of acquiring Weaver ever since the off-season the season ended. I think he would be a great 3 starter..."
He's far from a great #3 starter.
He's a fine #5 starter, especially with the Cubs who have 3-4 pitchers who are better.
Don't waste the money.
I love Da' Bears and
I love Da' Bears and thrilled to death of the season they have had. Maybe they will get past the first playoff game but I don't like their chances of a Super Bowl appearance.
Jerry -- the nice thing
Jerry -- the nice thing about having that bye is that if they get past that first game, they are suddenly one win away from the Super Bowl...
pre-Rex Grossman I'd agree
pre-Rex Grossman I'd agree with you, but I see us and the Seahawks as pretty evenly matched at this point. Even if we do make the Super Bowl, we'll get trounced by whichever AFC team makes it.
Didn't Prior sign a major
Didn't Prior sign a major league contact after he`was`drafted, therefore 2002 counts as a full year of service in the big leagues--02, 03, 04, 05 means he's a free agent in two more years---this might be why its him rather than Z in the trade talks
433, here's what I posted in
433, here's what I posted in the other thread:
Gee 433, lemme get my MLB GM contact sheet out and give them a call, I'll get back to you on that.
I can't exactly get copies of Baseball Tonight that I have seen or interiview on ESPN. That's crazy. Or random articles with random quotes. I know what I saw. The fact remains is that sometimes we know better than these GMs anyhow. I'm just reporting what I've seen and heard.
Where the hell did all this
Where the hell did all this Garland stuff talk come from?
So I heard that the Cubs
So I heard that the Cubs just traded Prior for Tejada, is this true?
a better question would be
a better question would be why do cubs fans even want garland around.
hell, j.williams is practically a better pitcher and he's slotted as a 5/6 pitcher for the cubs as it stands.
The major league contract
The major league contract that Prior signed doesn't get him anymore years of service time. All it did was give him guaranteed money the first few years of his contract and force the team to put him on the 40 man roster.
Stephen Drew just signed a 5 year deal with the D'backs, but there's no rush to bring him up.
btw...yeah, that's a
btw...yeah, that's a 1/2-assed joke about garland/williams...but still, i dont think garland is anything other than ordinary and i doubt he'd fit ahead of the cubs prior/z/maddux/wood setup.
"He's far from a great #3
"He's far from a great #3 starter.
He's a fine #5 starter, especially with the Cubs who have 3-4 pitchers who are better.
Don't waste the money."
I'd put him on the mound before Maddux.
"I'd put him on the mound
"I'd put him on the mound before Maddux."
MrCubslover, you talking about Weaver or Garland?
Bob, Service time is the
Service time is the amount of time you spend on the 25 not 40 man roster so his service time starts when he got called up from Iowa.
I think were the only NFC team with a snowball's chance in hell of beating an AFC team because were the only ones who could probably contain one of those team's offense to 21 (problem is I dont think we could match that) all the other teams the AFC will march right down the field on.
Chad, I'm too tired to pick
Chad, I'm too tired to pick a fight, but it was you that said something to the effect that most/many GM's currently consider Prior the best pitcher in all of MLB. I'm just asking for a single recent example of a GM saying anything even resembling that.
My point is that PriorMania has gripped us all over the last three years (myself included), and it's clouding the judgment of many of my TCR brethren in analyzing this trade. Don't get me wrong -- Prior is a hell of a pitcher with a lot of potential. He's just no longer "Mark Prior."
"MrCubslover, you talking
"MrCubslover, you talking about Weaver or Garland?"
No, Weaver over Maddux, though Weaver>Garland isn't far off. I just don't think much of Garland, never really have.
Weaver sort of reminds me of
Weaver sort of reminds me of Clement with that sinker.
prior IS that good, though.
prior IS that good, though. definately a top RH pitcher...
he'd make most anyone's top10 i'd imagine.
no one who's opinion pays the bills really believes prior is an injury concern and unlike beckett, his throwing doesnt cause wear on his body.
the HR's he gave up last year are semi-alarming, but mostly cuz we didnt really expect that. he didnt really do that awful of a job in that dept, but it definately wasnt something you associate with him.
He's just no longer "Mark
He's just no longer "Mark Prior."
He's still 25 years old, with 3 years of club control left and filthy stuff. There's only a few players in the world you trade him for and none of them should be a 30 year old SS with a multi-million dollar contract.
Weaver sort of reminds me of Clement with that sinker.
Just with worse numbers and a ten cent head.
I think were the only NFC team with a snowball's chance in hell of beating an AFC team
Snowball's chance maybe, but the only thing that is going to stop the Colts is this unfortunate Dungy mess or the Patriots. And I don't see us beating either of those teams.
"I'd put him on the mound
"I'd put him on the mound before Maddux."
I wouldn't and even if you would, there's still no way in hell that Weaver is a great #3 starter.
funny thing is weaver's
funny thing is weaver's gonna get 10+m a year for 3+ years...he's got the offers, but supposedly he's trying to get 5 years. this garland deal wont help other club's bargaining much. a guy who isnt even average with the exception of 1/2 season outta his career just sealed a 3/29...amazing.
Crunch -- I agree with you
Crunch -- I agree with you (as usual). Prior is one of the best in the game -- a top 10 or 15 pitcher, maybe top 5 depending on your criteria. He's just not that once-in-a-generation savior we thought he might be a couple of years ago. Hell, he may go on to win three Cy Youngs, but we can no longer say that's very likely.
Most of us remember the day he was drafted and the promise that brought. And we remember his first few starts, and how we got goose bumps and our minds raced, thinking of the possibilities. And then his 2003 dominance and his role in the playoff run. Those were all great things.
But, sad to say, those days are behind us. You can no longer project him as "Mark Prior" without a bunch of qualifiers that begin with "if he just..."
Weaver's only asset is he's
Weaver's only asset is he's an innings-eater. The Cubs, by my count, have 4 of those at the moment. (Z, Maddux, Rusch, Williams). We really need a 5th? I think we can go into the season with one injury question mark in the rotation. And that's even skeptical thinking in my opinion. Wood I think we'll be fine once he gets the green light and Prior isn't anymore an injury risk then getting hit by lightining ( but I understand why others may think otherwise).
yeah, prior's no longer the
yeah, prior's no longer the clemen-style golden boy savior...i hear ya.
prior had the most heat of any college pitcher since abbott...btw, abbott also was THAT good...it just wasnt some 1-hand gimick...he owned college hitters and had a decent pro career.
i compare him to beckett a lot even though he came outta highschool, beckett had prior's "savior" role before prior hit the baseball media blitz in his last year at USC.
at least baseball came to its senses when jared weaver had one of the best college baseball seasons ever for a pitcher and realized his stuff just isnt that good, though his numbers are.
I agree. I think this will
I agree. I think this will be Wood's year, not quite '98-esque, but a solid, dominating starter.
And naming Weaver as a #3 starter may be a bit of wishful thinking, but what's the problem with him. I listed him #3 b/c come on, nobody who watches Cubs baseball last season can tell me they were happy with Maddux, more like frusturated. And who knows what you're gonna get from Rusch/Williams. Certainly not locks.
"no one who's opinion pays
"no one who's opinion pays the bills really believes prior is an injury concern and unlike beckett, his throwing doesnt cause wear on his body."
Huh? Care to back this up Crunch? You cannot justthrow comments like this out without some sources. Prior's freak injuries did have an effect on his achilles/elbow. So who do you know in the biz that can backup your statement? Something we can read? Anything?
Maddux is better than
Maddux is better than Weaver, hands down, beyond every intangible you can speak of, their ERA+ from br.com (100 is average and it's adjusted for the league and park)
2003: 105
2004: 114
2005: 101
2003: 73
2004: 103
2005: 96
Williams will be ten times cheaper and give you about the same production, Rusch just about the same and one of those 2 won't be starting next year I'm guessing.
while I don't believe most
while I don't believe most execs believe prior is the injury concern that the bulk of TCR readers seem to believe he is, the O's seem to be wary of Prior cause of his injury past, so crunch's statement may be a bit of a generalization.
Rob, what are those numbers
Rob, what are those numbers you compared Maddux to Weaver. Maybe I'm biased because I saw Maddux pitch, it seems like every start, and he just frusturated the hell out of me.
rob, that's based on a media
rob, that's based on a media report from "unnamed source"
and besides...the O's are about to sign j.burnitz to a 2 year deal to put him in LF and have a weaker arm in the incumbent at RF...allegedly.
That's his ERA+ from
That's his ERA+ from BR.com,
the ratio of the league's ERA (adjusted to the pitcher's ballpark) to that of the pitcher. > 100 is above average and
There ERA's were similar but Weaver pitched in the ultra-pitcher friendly NL West the last 2 years. Maddux has more good starts then bad. He just needs to consult a farmer's almanac and try to pitch only when the wind's blowing in.
honestly...my take on this
honestly...my take on this prior/tejada thing is 'who cares'
either way BOTH teams get some nice players. neither team needs either player for 05. its not like this is a neccesity trade.
while the cubs could use another bat with 30 homers in it, they just dont need it that badly...but if it happens the cubs got the pitching depth to cover it and enough future money to cover any losses of tallent within the organization. meh...
thanks Rob. and for the
thanks Rob.
and for the comic relief..."He just needs to consult a farmer's almanac and try to pitch only when the wind's blowing in."
sketchy I agree crunch, I'm
sketchy I agree crunch, I'm mostly on your side on this to be honest, doubt too many teams would shy away from Prior cause of any injury concerns, the O's are probably just posturing to try and get something more out of the deal (if there is even a deal).
Interesting note... Garland
Interesting note...
Garland got a NTC for 2006 ONLY in his deal. So any theories of the CHW sign and trading him are out the window.
I sitll think they paid too much for a .500 pitcher. But they have the rings and Hendry has the doughnuts, so who am I to argue...
Rob G.- I agree there might
Rob G.-
I agree there might not be a formal deal on the table (can't trust any media), but there are clearly discussions and Hendry is using Prior and the main bait. If not, Hendry should of come out by now saying Prior is not availible.
honestly, while prior is a
honestly, while prior is a great pickup for any team, i dont see how the O's can afford to lose 30+homers/30+doubles. cubs fans talk about how the cubs need another big bat to compliment the 2 30+HR guys we already got...hell, that IS their 30+HR bat.
"while the cubs could use
"while the cubs could use another bat with 30 homers in it, they just dont need it that badly."
Actually the Cubs do need it. The Cubs have ranked 9th, 7th, and 9th in runs scored (in the NL) the last three years.
journalism majors correct me
journalism majors correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you can't go to print without at least a verified source. Hence why I always trust something in the paper over the radio. There's degrees to this, certain writers and their "sources" seemed to be more trustworthy over others. I trust Bruce Miles every day of the week and twice on Sundays over just about anybody else cause he almost always delivers level-headed commentary without propagating ridoculous rumors.
Prior probably was discussed and as one commenter suggested, I'm guessing it was more in the vein of, what does Prior get us?
CWTP: "Actually the Cubs do
"Actually the Cubs do need it (another 30 HR bat). The Cubs have ranked 9th, 7th, and 9th in runs scored (in the NL) the last three years."
You should be saying they need more runs, not HR's. As the Cubs have been more than good enough hitting HR's the past 3 years. They have been 8th, 1st, and 2nd the past 3 years in HR in the NL.
Rob G.: "Prior probably was
Rob G.:
"Prior probably was discussed and as one commenter suggested, I'm guessing it was more in the vein of, what does Prior get us?"
If that is all really happened, Hendry has done a terrible job of PR, basically leaving Prior hanging. I believe there is much more to it than just asking. Where there is smoke, there is fire. I believe Hendry has offered the deal and been turned down thus far. Now BOST comes in with a better deal for BALT.
In teh end I think it is just too hard to make a big deal like this (I hope at least). And the Cubs will bail out and pull their offer.
~keeping fingers crossed~
"Actually the Cubs do need
"Actually the Cubs do need it. The Cubs have ranked 9th, 7th, and 9th in runs scored (in the NL) the last three years. "
well...they also ranked near the tops in homers in those years, one of those years an all-time record i believe (not sure).
whether the cubs need another big bat at the expense of a big pitcher is a debate that will never solve itself.
exactly manny, get more
exactly manny, get more people on base for those home runs. Although next year, as the team currently stands, we'll probably slip back into the middle of the pack in home runs.
We've got 2 30+ HR guys: Ramirez, Lee
One 20 HR guy: Jones
Teens: Barrett, Murton, Walker
Less then 10: Cedeno, Pierre, Hairston, Neifi
That's still some decent pop...Too much uncertainty with Murton, Cedeno, Pierre though
Can someone compare Maddux's
Can someone compare Maddux's and Prior's numbers through the same amount of starts in their careers?
without a denial its very
without a denial its very doubtful that the o's/cubs trade rumors are anything but true.
that given...hendry isnt shopping prior. he's got him involved in talks with 1 team about 1 player in particular...both near the top tier for players of their levels.
its not like hendry is trying to get rid of prior as of now.
not to pick over murton's
not to pick over murton's numbers...15 or 20 or 25 HRs...it wouldnt be too suprising to see him hit in the 20s, anyway. he can go to both fields with power, though its mostly line-drive power.
still, he's just as likely to hit 15 than he is to hit 25 at this point...espeically depending on how he adapts to the inside pitch in 06.
I believe Hendry has
I believe Hendry has offered the deal and been turned down thus far.
Well 2 sources now (the Trib and Daily Herald) say no offers have been made, just a "variety of options" being discussed.
I'm not doubting Prior is being dangled, but I don't think Hendry has gotten the players back for him that he wants.
btw..murton made a great
btw..murton made a great late showing to hit the inside pitch...something that thrilled me to see outta him.
Luis: "Can someone compare
"Can someone compare Maddux's and Prior's numbers through the same amount of starts in their careers?"
Prior (2002-05):
97 starts
Maddux (1986-89):
104 starts
Thanks for that info
Thanks for that info mannytrillo!
I have another curiosity if anyone has some kind of interactive baseball software available... how about which pitchers have had an ERA (or whatever Prior's adjusted ERA for parks is) of 3.24 or lower in their first 97 starts of their careers... I don't know, maybe in the past 20 years? Would depenend if there are many who have done it or not, I have no idea.
You know what's funny? It's
You know what's funny? It's that people overrate their own team. We all know this and acknowledge this. But that's only one half of it. Fans EITHER overrate OR underate their own team and rarely can see it objectively. Right now you all think you are being objective with Mark Prior, but your not. You are all underrating him. Now you may accuse me of overrating Prior. And maybe I am. But I will tell you one thing. Prior is a once in a decade pitcher. We had one in the 80's with Maddux and we foolishly let him get away. We had one in the 90's with Wood but unfortunate health issuses turned him into one of the greatest "what could have beens" in history. Now we have one in the 2000s and you guys want to sell him for 30 pieces of silver (please read as home runs). Fine. But there are few pitchers I'd take over him. In fact, considering age and talent. I would take him number 1.
Go ahead. Throw out Roy Oswalt. I don't find him all that impressive. Dontrelle Willis? I will bet anybody that Prior will have more career wins and and a lower ERA than Willis. Carpenter? One good year.
But go ahead, underrate away.
The only 2 pitchers that
The only 2 pitchers that would make me think about trading Prior are Johan Santana and Felix Rodriguez. Santana I'd probably do in a heartbeat, Rodriguez I'd think about it.
Im going to assume you mean
Im going to assume you mean Seattle's Felix Hernandez not Felix Rodriguez. If so, you make an interesting point.
haha, yeah Seattle's King
haha, yeah Seattle's King Felix, not the useless reliever
Well Chad, when you start
Well Chad, when you start with such astute observations as "Roy Oswalt. I don't find him all that impressive.", where can we go from there? It's not like anyone here is going to change your mind. Let's all just mark it down, Chad likes Prior best.
For the record, in 5 seasons Oswalt has a 3.07 ERA, 1.18 WHIP and .252 BA against. In 4 seasons Prior has a 3.24 ERA, 1.19 WHIP and .233 BA against.
Rob, To answer your
To answer your journalism question the writter does have to tell the editors who the source is during the editing process. Whether the Editor will verify it depends on the size or belivability of the story. I am sure during Watergate Ben Bradlee (WA post editor) had a conversition with Felt (deep throat) to determine if he felt confortable printing the info. I have no clue about how radio works about I am sure a reporter like Levine is his own boss. In May or June this season Levine reported that the Sux and Guillen were negoating a contract extension and the next day all of the papers denied it but a week and a half later the Sux annouced they re-upped Guillen for anthor couple of years. It could be possible both Levine and the papers are right in their reporting and that Hendry is using the radio to get some public opinion on it and the papers to deny it to Prior, if the deal most likely does not happen, if he gets upset about it. It will be interesting to see what Kap has to say about this tonight.
I want to add to post 156
I want to add to post 156 that Al over at BCB is now saying his sources are confirming what Levine is saying.
For the record, in 5 seasons
For the record, in 5 seasons Oswalt has a 3.07 ERA, 1.18 WHIP and .252 BA against. In 4 seasons Prior has a 3.24 ERA, 1.19 WHIP and .233 BA against.
and a far worse park to pitch in, but he also has a steady declining K/9 rate which makes me think Prior will outperform him in the future (and Prior's 3 years younger)
thanks for the journalism
thanks for the journalism answer, "sources" can be a vague thing I realize, hence why I rely on certain folks more than others. Levine seems like he's hit and miss, more miss then hit and his timeframe on deals is way off. I trust Bruce Miles, and believe it or not, Ken Rosenthal seems to be nailing them this off-season.
Well, Ranch have you ever
Well, Ranch have you ever bothered to WATCH Roy Oswalt pitch? I have and I don't find him that impressive. I don't feel his stuff is unhittable. I wouldn't be that intimidated or feel over-matched against him. But go ahead, you seem the type of guy that only sees the stat page anyway.
Oswalt doesn't overmatch
Oswalt doesn't overmatch hitters, he throws them way off-balance, mid 90's fastball with a low 70's big break curve, spot on control and a decent change and slider. Great pitcher, but it's only his ability to stay healthy (so far) that makes him look better than Prior.
oswalt was/is underrated and
oswalt was/is underrated and overlooked for the same reason he was drafted late though he was putting up unlreal #s...his height.
you'll find almost any guy over 6'4" with a mid90s+ fastball gets almost instant prospect status. baseball doesnt like the short-man...unless he's a light hitting middle infielder/CF'r.
brian giles never got his due til late in his career for a similar season.
"You should be saying they
"You should be saying they need more runs, not HR's"
Since when is a homerun not a run scored?
Chad: You don't find
Chad: You don't find Oswalt's stuff that impressive? Well, a lot of professional hitters do find his stuff that impressive. He has a very good 2-seam fastball, a very good 4-seam fastball, incredible command...oh yeah, and he has one helluva slow curveball. There is a huge disparity in velocity between his fastball (low-to-mid-90's, with movement) and his slow curve (anywhere from the mid 60's to low 70's), to boot. While I would rather have Prior than Oswalt, he is one of the premiere pitchers in the National League, he stays healthy, and he brings it and doesn't get rattled in big games.
It sounds like Prior for
It sounds like Prior for Tejada is not going to happen. (Scroll down.)
SM, That is GREAT news,
That is GREAT news, hopefully I won't wake up tomorrow to hear anything different. And hopefully there won't be anymore Prior rummors for 20 or so years... after, I'll reevaluate my position... :P
I'm with Luis. Let's get
I'm with Luis. Let's get back to a projected Cubs roster/rotation which includes Mark Prior. Also, I'd like to believe it will include Todd Walker. I've also gained some encouragement from some of the posts about Jerome Williams and Angel Guzman. So my annual pre-season Cubs optimism/delusion appears to be setting in. I can definitely see winning the NL Central with this roster as it is, with the league for the taking. Further refinements would be welcomed, of course, specifically a decent bat off the bench from the remaining pool of second-tier outfielders.
adolfophillipsjones, Nice
Nice mention about Todd Walker... I still can't figure out why they would want to have another second baseman; his defense is not that bad and offensively he brings many things that are crucial to the Cubs lineup. And on top of that he seems to be a great clubhouse guy and he loves playing in Chicago.
I'm perfectly fine with developing Murton and CedeÒo... if you don't have a balance of low salary young players your payroll is simply going to get out of hand in a hurry. And those two guys seem to have bright futures indeed. The most frustrating thing about the 2005 season was not the losing, but losing and not seeing these guys get playing time in favor of veterans who were playing absolutely atrociously in terms of offense. Developing players means that you will not have an optimum team every year, but it also means that if you develop the right players, you will have a window where your team can be truly special and not just very good.
One final thing... I think having an identity is very important. Being really good at one area is better in my book that being above average in several. If the Cubs are building a strong pitching identity they should try to add and not substract talent. I see a lot of criticism of Hendry for trading Dontrelle, and to tell the truth I don't think that was that bad of a move considering how difficult it is to predict that he would have developed as he did and as early. The move that I questioned from day one was letting Matt Clement go. He was someone that wanted to stay badly and that was not all that expensive. That is one move I still can't figure out... in my mind, he is a special talent, and if nothing else, a very very good 3rd starter (that the Cubs could surely use now)
whether this prior/tejada
whether this prior/tejada thing went down or not i always pretty much considered it a sideshow.
either way a cy young calibre pitcher is replaced by a mvp balibre player and their replacements are mid-range tallent.
basically the clubs were reversing issues they dont really need to stregnthen that badly in the first place.
now maybe hendry can put some effort into solving the 'trade patterson' issue and figure out if he can live with t.walker being on this team or not.
Crunch: Good point about
Crunch: Good point about swapping deficiencies. And for my money, I'd rather NOT have pitching as a weakness.
RE Developing Murton: I would love for that to happen, but everyone's favorite rumor site is reporting that he will be platooned with Jones in left so that the Cubs can get Preston Wilson. Hopefully this site is wrong...again, because that really would not be good for the Cubs. Sadly, though, I can see Hendry doing it to make up for not getting Tejada.
It also looks like Byrnes is going to the desert...If/when this becomes official, that'll leave Wade Miller as the only guy available (who was non-tendered) that I'd have interest in. His mechanics are God-awful, but as a one-year guy (or even half-year guy, to give Guzman or Hill a little more time to develop), I think he'd be worth it.
I agree with Luis on having
I agree with Luis on having pitching be the identity of the ballclub and also with Ryan on feeling it was a mistake to let Clement get away when he wanted to stay. He drove me nuts at times, but so do Prior when he nibbles too much and builds his pitch count to where he's gone after 5-6 innings and Wood when he just loses it all of a sudden. He has talent, did some good work for the Cubs and would have been a very good #3 or 4. I also would like to see them get Miller cheap and we still need a couple guys who would scare the opposition off the bench.
Over and over again i read
Over and over again i read these rumors, Prior/Tejada, Patterson, Furcal, Wilson, Soriano, Huff, Lugo, and now Weaver. I know it is just us faithful Cub fans praying for a team that will someday bring a championship to the north side of Chicago. The only way while Jim Hendry is the Cubs GM will the Cubs win it all, is a miracle, an aggressive GM like Kenny Williams will be the suiter for those coveted rings. I give him credit when credit is due, the acquisition of Derrek Lee, and Aramis Ramirez are the the only key mainstays from our beloved GM.
Really, look around the Cub
Really, look around the Cub field,1B-Derrek Lee (credit to Jim Hendry here),2B-Todd Walker (middle of the pack second baseman or less, not since Sandberg), SS-Ronnie Cedeno (?????could it be or Niefi, whatever not solid not since, hmmmm Dunston), 3B-Aramis Ramirez (the last credit given to Hendry here), LF-Matt Murton (hope and pray not solid since Alou), CF-Juan Pierre (might be a cudo for Hendry which could bring him up to 3 credit/cudo's, before not solid since, I don't know). RF-Jacque Jones (nothing impressive average all around, not solid since since Sosa). C-Michael Barrett (less than average defensively not solid since Randy Hundley)Starting Pitching-This injury riddled staff is at the top when healthy, questions and way to many questions, not solid since Jenkins, Hands, Pappas, Holtzman days).
So you see position by position the Cubs are lacking and have for some time and Jim Hendry is lacking on his fortune to retain his position as GM past 2006.
I can't believe the Cub
I can't believe the Cub faithful actually think the Cubs (as the roster stands now) has a chance to win the division and possibly beyond, LOL! I will stop laughing for a minute, it is possible, anything is possible. I will be shocked if Wood starts more than 15 games, and Prior wins 15 games. Lee,Ramirez, and Pierre are the Cubs only consistant offensive weapons. Good thing Hendry helped out the bullpen with Eyre and Howry, they will earn their salaries by pitching almost everyday.
Trade Rumor: Dusty Baker
Trade Rumor:
Dusty Baker for Grady Little
Luis, About Todd
About Todd Walker..
You want a secondbasemen who can turn the double play. Walker is below average at turning the trick. Teams that only get one out ususally don't play in October regardless of how good the second basemen is in the club house or high his batting average is. The 2B better be able to turn all of the potential double plays if the Cubs are to have a chance in 2006.
kewlazguy, Are there any
Are there any reliable defensive stats that can help our discussion on Walker? I am pretty much going by my perception of seeing him play the past two years... and never got the impression that he was a liability out there, not all-star defense but certainly solid. And a second baseman which bats left-handed, makes consistent contact and can have an OPS of .830 are not so easy to come by. Hell, if the Cubs really wanted and upgrade at second they should have gone after Luis Castillo. To give up Walker's offense and left-handed bat would be a terrible idea in my book. And btw, remember the Braves offensive/defensive platoon at short all those years in the 90's? And that was an even more critical position and they made it work beautifully.
Luis- You can go to ESPN.com
You can go to ESPN.com and go to MLB stats. Pick NL Player Fielding stats. It shows Walker to be pretty low defensively, in all categories including DP's, Errors, fielding percentage, zone rating and range factor.
mannytrillo, I looked at
I looked at the page but I can't seem to find a way to get the league averages for each defensive category so I can figure out if he is below average or what. As far as the DP category, I think in it's pure form is not a very telling stat since it is heavily dependant on the pitching staff of each club. Looking at the numbers at a glance I saw the Walker is actually above average fielding wise but it's one of the worst in terms of range. Zone rating seemed to be average. But like I said, it would be easier if I could find the league averages for these stats, it seems that at ESPN and CNNSI they only have it by player.
Chad, the numbers I posted
Chad, the numbers I posted would tend to agree with you regarding Oswalt being hittable. Nevertheless, those hitters don't score very much. Maybe his athleticism doesn't impress you, but his results should.
Adolfophillipsjones: Not
Adolfophillipsjones: Not sure when I posted that it was a mistake to let Clement get away. Don't get me wrong, I like Matty, but for the amount of money he would have commanded, and for the fact that he is a good first-half pitcher, but not as effective later in the year, I don't disagree with Hendry for letting him go. Especially not since we were banking on more innings from Wood and Prior...
Jerry: Sensing a LOT of South Side love and North Side hate for a Cubs fan...anywho, the Cubs team as is CAN win the division. I'm not sure that they will, but when you are looking at the main two rivals having very poor off-seasons thus far, and you look at the Cubs addressing their main needs (lead-off and bullpen), the Cubs have improved, while the Cardinals and Astros seem to have gotten worse. Then, throw in factors such as injuries (maybe Berkman plays another flag football game), and career years last year (don't think Carpenter is gonna win the Cy Young again...he'll be good, but not that good), and the Cubs do have a very reasonable shot at the division. That just ain't enough to whet my appetite as a Cubs fan.
Ryan, my bad-that was Luis
Ryan, my bad-that was Luis who I had read recommended keeping Clement. Still wish Cubs would have. Anyway, I'd be a lot more concerned about our chance to win our division in '06 if the Cards and Astros had done more this off-season. As it is, I agree that we could get it done unless the Cards make a couple heists before spring training. Jerry, I enjoyed you're reminiscing about the Jenkins-Hands-Holtzman-Pappas rotation. Those guys flat took the ball and gave it there all for all nine many times.
Look how long he would be
Look how long he would be that good two years more.tejada would bring another dimencion.pierre would bat.300, ramirez and lee would see better pitches.
Recent comments
Kershaw gets hurt by his defense and gave up 2 more runs. Blach has 8 shutout innings.
Mets already won as did Cards.
tomorrow is gonna be helluva fun if Giants hold on. We're all rooting for a 3-way tie I presume.
good news is now 5 K's for Lester through 4 (in a quest for 200 for season). Bad news is he's already at 86 pitches.
be curious how long Maddon sticks with Lester to try and let offense get back into it and get him the win (4-2 as I type, was 4-0)
Fwiw, he needed 2.1 IP to cross 200 for season so he got that at least. He also needs 9 K's for 200K's on season and he has 4 through 3.
cubs score 2 runs thanks to predictable reds pitching and horrible CIN defense...cubs only down by 1 now. heyward even got a gift 2rbi double out of an easy popout. neat.
something named Ty Blach has outpitched Clayton Kershaw through 6 innings (1-0 Giants).
not that finishing 2nd place will matter much nor did this game, but have to think if Hendricks pitches well tomorrow, he could leapfrog Lester in Cy Young voting. Don't see anyway Scherzer doesn't win it regardless and it doesnt' look like Lester has any incentive clauses that matter. Also might give Cueto some votes.
Rather remarkable how many teams have really good 1-2 options this year.
Nats: Scherzer and Roark (and Strasburg was great before injuries)
Cubs: Lester and Hendricks (and Arrietta is still damn good just not as consistently lately)
pretty much what I'm gathering from this thread is that it doesn't matter who you play in 5-game series, but no one wants to have to deal with Cardinal fans if we end up losing.
I can respect that.
first game for lester giving up more than 2 runs since july 24th. hell of a run.
doh, yes...dunno what happened there. jake arrieta is all "bro wut?"
lester going for #20...cubs haven't had a LH (thanks jpep for the correction) 20 game winner since d.ellsworth in 1963.
fwiw, all the games are free on mlb.tv
Short rest for MadBum would be 2 days. WC game is Wed., Games 1 & 2 are Friday/Saturday.
A left-handed one...
J-Hey not finishing with an offensive onslaught.
If Geoff Blum could be a Playoff hero, there is hope still...
Giants scare me. I think you're wrong about Bumgarner, he would pitch on short rest for Game 2 and then full rest for Game 5. Cueto would go Game 1, then short rest in game 4. Add in some really tough outs in that lineup and I want nothing to do with them. With that rotation they can easily steal a series.
Cards are a tough matchup. The rivalry evens out their comparable lack of talent. And like someone said, they love HRs, which is how to beat the Cubs. The upside is that I would feel really good about Lester twice against STL.
j.buchanan with a nice start...5ip 2h 1bb 3k, 0r/er
zobrist with 2HR and a double through 8
heyward 0-4 :(


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What's better for you, Organic or convetional food?
Created by variaguirre
on Feb 14, 2011
Last updated: 02/21/11 at 10:41 AM
Organic Food has no followers yet. Be the first one to
In this article, Liza Williams states that there is no proof that organic is better for our bodies. Even though producers say organic has benefits for consumers, there's no written proof that it has health benefits towards humans, as most people would think.http://www.lexisnexis.com.ezproxy.lib.utexas.edu/hottopics/lnacademic/
This article explains how to eat better, organic or not. Besides it provides facts about both sides(Organic, conventional) to make your choices. And explains how the problem is not in what type of food you eat (organic or not) but the problem is in what the people eat.http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/22/weekinreview/22bittman.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=eating%20better%20organic%20or%20not&st=cse
The articles is about the benefit of organic food and how can it help you eat healthier. It also provide the pros and cons and a differentiation between conventional and organic food.http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/lnacademic/
Texas Organic Farmers and Gardeners Association. It is a state-wide organization of about 600 members. A publicly supported, non-profit association whose members include ranchers, farmers, commercial plant growers, retailers, wholesalers, processors, distributors, consumers, and anyone desiring to support the organic industry in Texas. Our primary mission is to promote organic agriculture as a sustainable systems approach in the production of food and fiber – a system that protects human and animal health, and preserves the environment.http://www.tofga.org/
Whole Foods Market was founded in Austin, Texas, when four local businesspeople decided the natural foods industry was ready for a supermarket format. The original Whole Foods Market opened in 1980 with a staff of only 19 people. It was an immediate success. At the time, there were less than half a dozen natural food supermarkets in the United States. It has grown by leaps and bounds since the first store opened.http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/
USDA was founded in 1862 by President Lincoln to help farmers who needed good seeds and information to grow their crops.


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Watch more Teen Pussy Videos, share videos and find the latest funny videos at Viduu.
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Somerset Community College will honor all active duty and veteran personnel on November 12, 2012. The event, which begins at 10 a.m. in the SCC Meece Auditorium, 808 Monticello Street, Somerset, is free and open to the public. Light refreshments will be served.
The 2012 Veterans Day ceremony will include a special singing from the "Bell Tones," a group of 40 students from Bell Elementary in Monticello, the presentation of the colors representing each branch of the Military from the Southwestern High School JROTC and guest speaker Chief Warrant Officer Five Delynn H. Gibson.
Veterans Day originated as "Armistice Day" on Nov. 11, 1919, the first anniversary of the end of World War I. Congress passed a resolution in 1926 for an annual observance, and Nov. 11 became a national holiday beginning in 1938. Veteran's Day has been a way to commemorate and offer gratitude to all soldiers both present and for those who have served in time past.
About Delynn H. Gibson
CW5 Delynn H. Gibson was appointed as the third State Command Chief Warrant Officer (CCWO) of the Kentucky National Guard on May 1, 2009 by Major General Edward W. Tonini, Adjutant General for Kentucky.
Born in Greenville, Mississippi CW5 Gibson enlisted in the Army in January 1980 as a combat medic. His assignments included Aschaffenburg, Germany and Ft. Carson, Colorado.
Upon completion of a three year tour, CW5 Gibson enlisted in the Kentucky Army National Guard as a flight medic in the 441 Medical Detachment and attained the rank of SGT/E-5.
In 1987 he was appointed as a warrant officer after completing aviator as a UH-1 (Huey) pilot. In 1989 he attended the Army Fixed Wing Qualification Course and also completed qualification in the OH-58 and the OH-58 Instructor Pilot course. In 1993 he was involved in standing up the newly formed Reconnaissance and Interdiction Detachment (RAID) which conducted drug interdiction and surveillance operations.CW5 Gibson later became a regional standardization instructor pilot and conducted evaluations to pilots and instructors nationwide for other RAID units.
In 1996 CW5 Gibson completed qualification and assigned as a pilot in the C-23 (Sherpa) in which he conducted passenger transport, movement of cargo and paradrop operations. In 1998 CW5 Gibson transferred to Detachment 11 Operational Support Airlift (OSA) as a pilot in the C-12 (Huron) utility aircraft where he provided Department of Defense transportation. He also completed instructor pilot and instrument examiner qualification courses and served in those positions until he was assigned as the commander of the detachment from 2002 until 2009.
In 2004 CW5 Gibson deployed with Detachment 11 OSA to Afghanistan where the unit received many accolades for their professionalism and outstanding aviation support. Under his command Detachment 11 OSA received the Joint Support Operational Airlift Command (JOSAC) "Small Lift Unit of the Year Award" as well as the very first overall unit "Commendable" on the Aviation Readiness Survey Management Survey (ARMS) inspection.
CW5 Gibson is a graduate of Embry Riddle Aeronautical University with a BS in Professional Aeronautics and minor in Business Management.
CW5 Gibson's awards includes: Air Medal, 5 Army Commendation Medals, 2 Army Achievement Medals, Army Good Conduct Medal, 4 Army Reserve Components Achievement Medals, National Defense Service Medal, Afghanistan Campaign Medal, Global War on Terrorism Service Medal, Humanitarian Service Medal, Armed Forces Reserve Medal with M device, Overseas Service Ribbon, Kentucky Service Ribbon with 2 Oak Leafs, Kentucky State Active Duty Ribbon with 3 Oak Leafs, Louisiana Emergency Service Ribbon, Combat Action Badge and Master Army Aviator Badge.
For more information, contact Pat McCoy at email@example.com.


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Family speaks about losing oceanfront homeUPDATED 4:34 PM PST Mar 09, 2013
Sharon and Stephen Bresnahan watched Saturday as more than 40 years of memories were torn down in Plum Island, Mass.
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CommentsThe views expressed are not those of this site, this station or its affiliated companies. By posting your comments you agree to accept our terms of use.blog comments powered by Disqus


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Three people were arrested Wednesday in connection with a burglary in northwest Oklahoma City, police said.
Click here: Who got arrested? slideshow
Officers say they responded to a reported burglary in the 2400 block of Northwest 33rd Street. Investigators say they spotted a nearby vehicle with three men inside and attempted to stop the car.
One man was taken into custody and the other two men fled. Officers looked for the men with K-9 units and air support.
Police said guns were stolen from the home, but it is unknown whether any of the weapons were recovered during the arrests.


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A 32-year-old Kansas City man has been sentenced to 30 years in prison for killing a man in 2011.
The Jackson County prosecutor's office says in a release that Umar Muhammad was sentenced in Jackson County Circuit Court.
A jury found him guilty in August of second-degree murder and armed criminal action in the death of 25-year-old Mohamed Hussein. Muhammad's sentence includes time for injuring another person in the same incident.
A jury found Muhammad guilty this summer and recommended those sentences, which were imposed Thursday by Judge Peggy Stephens McGraw.


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Top Definition
Made famous by Shawn Spencer of Psych, "jujumagumbo" is something that is completely extreme! Most often used in negative context, it can, however, be either good or bad. When it is used negatively, it is often preceded by "dark" or similar adjectives. Used in a positive way, it should follow "awesome", "amazing", etc.
That's some dark jujumagumbo! (Negative, obviously)
ayon kay LordOfTheFlame ika-10 ng Marso, 2010
Trending Now
Can you define these popular missing words?
when something crazy happens and you cant find something besides awsome or wow
thats some crazy juju magumbo
ayon kay awsome pants ika-13 ng Enero, 2008


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Sources: Bloomberg, Cult of Mac
quote: A monitor is useful for a much longer period of time than the computer itself. If the components were SEPARATE or detachable than the display could be retained when a new computer is purchased - saving several hundred dollars. Remember, the iMacs have expensive IPS screens.


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Tomblin should do what's best of all of West Virginia
March 7, 2013
Gov. Earl Ray Tomblin has resisted enormous political pressure to do the right thing for West Virginians — all of us —regarding the Medicaid program....
And so should the Charles Town Council. WOW,this story kind of relates to tax and spenders like Charles Town City Council members that are not from here and push their socialist agenda. Council members Bringewatt, Paonessa and Slover recruited another liberal spender to run for City Council that has only lived here a few months and is not from Charles Town. This hurts our City because all of them are not from here, moved here, and immediately ran for office and did not take the time to get to know the people or our issues. They try to block growth and fail to improve our infrastructure such as sidewalks and our terrible drinking water. Paonessa nominated a new liberal resident that had only lived here for a few weeks and put him on the CT Planning Comm. Bringewatt, Slover and Paonessa want to increase their voting block on Council to stop growth. There is nothing wrong with being from somewhere else, but soon no one on Council would be from West Virginia or Charles Town. We don't need
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To my "progressive" friends...I've asked this question several times and have yet to get any answer:
What are we progressing towards? In order to measure "progress" there must be a goal, otherwise you're just measuring "change". So please tell me what the goal is.
2 Agrees | 1 Disagrees | Report Abuse »
Last week it was land tax records being checked by the Journal to identify a woman killed in a fire when the assistant fire marshal declined to identify her for the public. There's that "official notice" formality so that the family doesn't learn from a newspaper. Today, it's the death of a driver of a trash truck. Again, no ID but the Journal reports the name of a trash company whose lawyer who contacted the authorities regarding the accident. Can't you people show a little decency and common sense? Neither article carried a byline. I don't wonder why.
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In case you didn't notice, in West Virginia it has been one-party rule for 80+ years....
What has their "Progressive" leadership gotten us? Other than, last on every positive chart and first on every negative chart when compared to other U.S. states.
"I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive." -- Thomas Jefferson (to James Madison, 1787)
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Way to keep the "us vs. them" mentality alive and well journal! It has certainly served us well, one of the key factors as to why our congress is so effective! All you have to do is keep at it and one day you'll magically convince EVERYONE that YOU'RE right and EVERYONE else is wrong! This is how we get things done in America.
[In case it wasn't obvious to my "Regressive" comrades, I am being totally sarcastic...]
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Doesn't the Journal know that Americans and West Virginians want to emulate the thriving and prosperous examples of Greece and Italy?!?
Long live the government which cares for our every whim from cradle to grave--and always on someone else's borrowed dime!
[In case it wasn't obvious to my "Progressive" comrades, I am being totally sarcastic...]
2 Agrees | 2 Disagrees | Report Abuse »
"The U.S. poverty rate actually has increased during the past few years." In direct correlation with the decrease in the wages of the average working person.
"More effective is building the economy to provide more jobs." Not just any jobs but jobs that pay a living wage.
"And the economy tends to thrive when government takes less money from us in taxes." This is not supported by history. Look at the charts.
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Party Pics: Erykah Badu's Birthday Jammy at the Granada Theater
Photo: Jerry McClure/Special Contributor
April Godwin, Bobbe Watters and Teresa Kindrick at Erykah Badu's Birthday bash at The Granada Theater on Feb. 26, 2013.
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HARRISBURG - Hotel stays at $300 per night. A $494 dinner. Free use of a car for work and pleasure.
At a time when many Pennsylvanians are clipping coupons and pinching pennies, the members of the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission appear to have no limits on what they can spend on travel and accommodations, and no requirement that they explain such expenses, a state audit has found.
A 93-page report issued Tuesday by Auditor General Jack Wagner's office found that the turnpike was "overly generous and permissive" in reimbursing its five governing commissioners for expenses, and lacked transparency and accountability by reimbursing commissioners with little if any documentation.


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|Welcome to the MANGA Forum.
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what do you want to do in life?me i am going to become a culinary expertwhat do you what to do?
i'm going to study medicine ,i'm want to be a vetAnd i might draw a little cause i like to draw...Vet
anything with music reallylife is rough.so dont take it lightly.
be a manga editor let's take back our symbol
The Greatest Clan In Death and Universe... The Zombaukto Clan *
would be and artist becuz im always drawing when i have nutting to do or a fashion designer becuz i make all my summer clothes...i really dnt havb a clue yet but im still thinking lol
<~~i`ll just take my time~~>
"ashes to ashes dust to dust your nothin'more than dust"
double major as a herpatologist(scientist of reptiles and amphibians)
im a friend 2 all
but i really want to be a manga writer or a vet or something that works with animals
a fashion designer because i love it in anime how the cloth line look one them and i would want 2 make them real
< =D =) =. :D :) :. =P =f =B =b =O =X XD >D 8D 8) =5 =E =H :P :B X) >) 0) -) -D 0D o_O >
of what im going to do next aka watch anime ^.^ oh ya be an anime drawer
in chemistry and physics and become a pyrotechnician!!!
Where da Party at?
My brain is not as function as smart people like youse. My goal in life is to Attend university or college and become a business expert. It will long time for my mind to be straight but im trying as hard as i can. hehehehehehe lols clara <3 x.


text:
Gov. Nikki Haley brought her traveling call for ethics reform to Charleston on Monday, saying state lawmakers should have to publicly disclose their sources of outside income.
Meanwhile, her Republican allies said the practice of legislators picking magistrates also needs to be reformed, particularly since it allows for lawmakers who are also lawyers to influence who sits in courtroom judgment.
All sides agreed the magistrate comments were aimed largely at Haley's likely 2014 gubernatorial foe — Democrat Vincent Sheheen, a state senator and practicing attorney from Camden.
For their part, South Carolina Democrats said Haley does not come into the ethics discussion free of criticism — she's described her past brushes with ethics issues as falling into "gray areas" that need clarification — and that Republicans are backing the same sort of magistrate reform previously introduced by Sheheen.
Monday was a day of ethical "one-ups" as Haley held her third news conference in recent days around the state on the need for ethics reforms in the Statehouse. Ethics questions have dogged several prominent South Carolina politicians in recent years, and the issue could become a major one in the gubernatorial race.
Top among Haley's efforts is making legislators disclose their income sources since South Carolina is one of four states without the guideline.
"If you know who pays your legislator," she said, "then you know why legislators vote the way they do."
Haley's comments came as she was flanked by a half-dozen Charleston-area GOP lawmakers gathered at the College of Charleston. The appearance also was a curtain-raiser toward the Legislature's restart in January, where the ethics reform package is the first big item on the agenda in the Senate.
The measure, which passed the House last session, would require legislators to report sources of income and remove the current system of lawmakers investigating each other following an alleged ethical breach.
Instead, the State Ethics Commission would do the investigation when such a case arises, though the disciplinary action, if any, would still be determined by other lawmakers.
Haley allies say they expect a tough fight from senators opposed to the reforms when the session starts since many lawmakers contend they should keep oversight of judging each other's conduct.
"We are going to have an ethics 'all-nighter,' " predicted state Sen. Paul Thurmond, R-Charleston, who was at Haley's news conference.
Meanwhile, Republicans also tried to play up the fact that Sheheen, D-Camden, as an attorney, has eight cases scheduled in front of magistrates that he recommended for appointment. The case load was first reported Saturday by The State newspaper in Columbia.
Local county magistrates in South Carolina are appointed by the governor based on recommendations from state lawmakers, and Sheheen is not the only lawyer-legislator who could practice in front of magistrates in the state.
But Haley's camp made note of the fact he is the only one running for governor, and that the situation allows for at least a possible appearance of courtroom favoritism.
"It puts senators in a bad position, just like it puts everyone else in a bad position," Leighton Lord, a past GOP candidate for state attorney general and Haley supporter, said during a conference call with South Carolina media outlets organized by Haley's campaign.
"If you're the victim of a crime, you want to make sure justice is done and that politics aren't being played out in the courtroom in front of a magistrate. ... You have to take the senator out of the equation," he said.
Democrats said the idea to change the selection process for magistrates reflects a bill Sheheen previously filed that would have the S.C. Supreme Court nominate them. The Republican response is too late, they said.
"For Nikki Haley, it's brutal when the truth comes out," state Democratic Party Communications Director Kristin Sosanie said. "And you know the sitting governor must be really desperate when even her own surrogates support Sen. Vincent Sheheen's efforts to clean up South Carolina's government over hers."
Reach Schuyler Kropf at 937-5551.


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Systemwide Events Calendar
NV - Relaxing Neck Muscle Tension (4 of 4)May 15, 9:45am - 11:45am
Windward Campus, Hale Kuhina 115
To benefit our eyes, we will relax neck tension with gentle self-acupressure, trigger points, imagery, plus exercises from Dr. Bates, Chi Kung, Tai Chi, Yoga, and Feldenkrais. We will continue eye exercises and acupressure.
Instructor: Marie Riley
Course Fee: $9
Course Code: P05HE163
Date: Wednesday, May 15
Time: 9:45 A.M. - 11:45 A.M.
Meetings: 1
Event Sponsor
Career and Community Education, Windward Campus
More Information
Career and Community Education, 235-7433, firstname.lastname@example.com
|Wednesday, May 15
|The Wellness Center - Fitness Class Schedule
Maui Campus, Pilina Bldg., Wellness Center
|NV - Relaxing Neck Muscle Tension (4 of 4)
Windward Campus, Hale Kuhina 115
|East-West Toastmasters Public Speaking Club Meeting
Manoa Campus, Hemenway Hall 215
|Sociology Final Oral
Manoa Campus, Saunders 515
|AgCurious Workshop
Hilo Campus, Hawai`i Community College
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