text:
The Gonski illusion
Miranda Devine
–, Tuesday, April, 02, 2013, (7:52pm)
THE most despicable thing about the "I give a Gonski" ads on TV is their dishonest use of a young boy struggling to read. This struggle is a tragedy going on in our classrooms every day.
As many as 30 per cent of Australian children leave school functionally illiterate. Children of normal intelligence can't read because their teachers have not been taught the most effective way to teach them - which is systematic, explicit phonics instruction, linking the letters in our alphabet to sounds.
If these children are unlucky enough to come from a home where their parents can't overcome the schooling deficit, they are doomed to illiteracy and consigned to the margins.
The militant left-wing Australian Education Union that pays for the ads offers a self-serving lie for a solution. It pretends that more money will magically fix the problems.
"If public schools don't get urgent funding more of our kids will get left behind," intones the narrator, exhorting parents to "give a gonski".
The noun in that catchphrase refers to businessman David Gonski, whose report into school funding has become a magic wand of mythical proportions. It recommended the federal government spend $6.5 billion a year extra on smaller classes and more specialist teachers.
Julia Gillard, who wants to be known as the "education prime minister", will finalise funding with the states on April 19, at the Council of Australian Governments meeting, trying to create the illusion of Gonski billions, despite the fact the government is broke.
But the fact is that more money does not equal better education. It's how you spend the money that counts.
Australia increased spending on schools by more than 40 per cent last decade and the results are a disgrace. The reading skills of our Year 4 students are the worst of every English-speaking country tested in the first Progress in International Reading Literacy Study (PIRLS) last year of 325,000 students. One quarter of our students couldn't even manage to read at the basic minimum standard for their age group.
These are children whose entire school life has been under the Labor government, which promised an education revolution and instead provided some overpriced school halls and laptop computers.
The revolution needed is not in bricks and silicon chips. What's needed is the destruction of the progressive education ideology that has held sway at teacher training institutions for more than 40 years.
The man who you might genetically design for that brutal job is Christopher Pyne, who is likely to become the federal minister for education after the next election, if the polls are any indication. Unlike most of his predecessors, Pyne is unlikely to be bullied or hoodwinked by the education establishment into accepting its most destructive intellectual fads.
For Pyne, 45, the reading wars - between phonics advocates and whole language devotees - is deeply personal.
His father, Dr Remington Pyne, was an eye surgeon who took a special interest in dyslexia when Christopher's oldest brother was diagnosed with reading problems - and helped found SPELD, a non-profit group to help people with learning difficulties.
Pyne also has four children of his own at school in Adelaide, from kindergarten to Year 7. His 12-year-old twins, Eleanor and Barnaby, are dyslexic , and he says his life experience has "given me a particular insight into education".
He says Gonski has been a "distraction from the real debate which is the quality of education (which is) determined by the quality of teachers, parental engagement, a robust curriculum and decisions being made as locally as possible by principals and leadership teams".
On teacher quality he says: "We need to recognise that teacher training in the last 10 or 20 years not been what the market tells us we need… There's been a battle in education departments and universities since the 1970s about the direction of education, and one side has been winning."
That winner is, "the progressive side that rejects traditional teaching methods and a traditional curriculum. Student-centred learning is part of that and an acceptance of lowest common denominator outcomes, a specific rejection of excellence and a view schools are not about knowledge but about skills, which I think is poisonous. Students have to be about knowledge first and skills second".
"This is a very hard row to hoe in Australia because most educators today have been trained in this progressive approach to education and nobody wants to disagree."
As a model for the rest of the country, he points to Western Australia, where the Barnett government has given schools the option to take control of their budgets. Principals now have the power to choose the best teachers and spend their money the way that suits students.
"This is anathema to anyone who wants central control of education ... my intention, should I be fortunate enough to become education minister, will be to radically alter the way we think about education in Australia, to place competition, the individual and self-reliance at the centre of our education system," he says.
To do any good, Pyne will have to nuke the progressive education establishment. But if anyone has the courage and cunning to win that war, it's him.
UPDATE: In comments, below, teacher-librarian Sandra claims that "at no time have I ever come across a teacher who has not included phonics as part of their Reading program in any Primary school in which I have taught."
This is one of the most insidious developments of the so-called reading wars - the incorporation of incidental phonics as a sop to shut up the critics. It has led well-meaning teachers down the wrong path.
The evidence-based research on reading shows that "including" some token phonics instruction in what is essentially a whole language program is not optimal. What is needed, as found by the National inquiry into the teaching of literacy, chaired by the eminent late Professor Ken Rowe, is: "[early] systematic, direct and explicit phonics instruction so that children master the essential alphabetic code-breaking skills required for foundational reading proficiency." Systematic. Direct. Explicit. Not incidental.
(I was a member of the inquiry committee.)
Miranda Devine
Wed 03 Apr 13 (02:21pm)
Have Your Say
Miranda this is a good subject you raise. I just hope the lefties that I just know will attack your message at least give what you say a thought.....then again, maybe that is just wishful thinking?
What you have raised here goes straight to the heart of our culture. But why do I state that? Because if a culture is not prepared to teach their children the basics of their own language then that culture, in my opinion and I have no doubt many others will agree, is the poorer for it, and unless reversed, is doomed.
If following generations cannot adequately put their thoughts into words so that anyone may understand what is being conveyed by the writer, then what is the point of the written language?
I have noted the many excuses by those who have brought us to this point in time where basic English skills, such as spelling and grammar are severely lacking, particularly in those young'uns that have become captured by the public school system. I reject the public school socialist doctrine of one size fits all for education purposes because it just does not work!
Plainly, what we have now in place to teach up coming generations of Australians is failing them based on what was once a superior standard of education only thirty years ago.
But of course the socialists who now inhabit our educational systems want nothing to do with what used to work because they have the instant answer for all the worlds ills! So what do the old fogeys know!
Throwing money at a broken system will only ensure the system stays broken for longer. It is not money that is needed in education today, it is dedicated teachers who value the skills they can impart to those who are willing to take them on and learn.
Compare that to what is now occurring in most schools and weep!
Tue 02 Apr 13 (08:37pm)
Tue 02 Apr 13 (10:33pm)
Nemesis the tragic failings of this government is not only that some students are smarter than the teachers thanks to their parents endless hours of sacrifices and money they have invested into their children's future. Also the fact that this union government has taken away the opportunity for students to work after school has been a terrible disadvantage for teenages that have the will and capacity to work giving them invaluable life skills to earn pocket money and save.
Have you happen to pass a group of young people gathered together ? The filthy language , smoking and the body piercing leaves one speechless.
How are these young people going to get ahead in society and get work skills? Who is going to give them a job. They don't have a education and probably don't care anyway. We are heading for a generation or two of blugging ferals that can't read write or be part of a civil society because this gillard government throws money at trashy materialistic things so she can be loved and be kept in her undeserving cushy pm job. Why not instead educate the teaches to highest possible standards . In the hope that they can be the one to inspire the future generation into being the best in the world. Surely this would cost less than the 6+ billion gonski would have to spend on throwing money away at useless ideas.
Wed 03 Apr 13 (08:43am)
annieg......there is much more involved in this issue than one can cover in a simple comment, but the core of the problem is socialism/communsim and its inherent one size fits all approach to everything. That is the root cause of all the ills we are now witness to which our successive generations are now subject to.
Get rid of the socialist union that dictates what teachers are permitted to do in the class room and grab the Education Department staff by the neck and lead them back into the first half of the 20th century way of educating, specifically on the three Rs which were more successfully taught when done by rote.
Give a child a sound grounding in the three Rs which will establish their foothold in society and that is all that most will need to see them through for the rest of their lives.
Anything learned after mastering the three Rs can only enhance their educational enlightenment.
Wed 03 Apr 13 (11:23am)
Heres one of those issues Nemy..
I was listening to one of those dreadful dreadful ABC programmes (annieg) on technology. Apparently writing (just like Pyne's chalk and talk) is so last century, as iPads (tablets), no not your medicine type. Are replacing books all over the world.
A young lad phones in, year 11 student, who recently returned with family to Australia, stating that he has been attending a private school in the US where there are no books from primary to secondary school. All notes and diaries are on iPads even their electronic signatures. Would you believe it. There is NO handwriting in the classroom anymore.. or I should say is fading away fast replaced by TXT.
Tradition… ?? The three R's..??
It's a new world of IT out there ... and Rupert doesn't like it.
Wed 03 Apr 13 (04:22pm)
annieg, the unions are preventing children being used as cheap labour by unscrupulous corporations. i cannot see education standards rising if abbot gets in. and bear in mind that the best education systems tend to be in socialist countries like cuba. and guess what in those countries everyone has access to it not just the elites
Wed 03 Apr 13 (05:20pm)
Oh… Nemy.
Isn't it funny how people who have attended private school education, where the fees are high and supplemented by our tax dollar… argue that the rest ( I attended Christain Bros Balmain and we don't cry) that attend public schools don't benefit from more money. It's hilarious isn't it.
Money doesn't improve education in the public sector education system ... but somehow it's OK at Kings High School. Though I'm sure they would do just as well in demountables with no air conditioning. Ever been to their web-site..?? I'm sure the Royals would be comfortable, who are also, coincidentally subsidised by our tax dollars.
And poor old Gonski didn't know that by purely writing a report on reform on education for the Labor Government, that he like Garnaut, who designed the GST for Howard, would be vilified by the ferociously oppose the government MSM through Abbott.
Wreck and Destroy no matter what… is the Abbott motto. I'm personnally looking forward to him wrecking and destroying the carbon tax (LoL) as China is moving to a nation wide ETS by 2015. Just like South Korea.
Oh thats right, sorry, reality has no place on Planet Denial and the world is retreating. Just like Obama was when he announced that the US would move to a carbon price in his term.
Abbott going to look like a goose in the history books..
Wed 03 Apr 13 (06:03pm)
The leftard infested US teachers union insist on using ipads etc because it makes altering data as their leftard mates in the white-house rewrite history easier.
It makes the leftards constant lies,dud-predictions-thefts-rorts-scams-protection-rackets-et al over the past 40 years easier to obliterate from the record.
Let the NAZI style book burning begin comrades!!!
Leftards-Its all about them (and their zombie supporters.)
Thu 04 Apr 13 (03:53am)
Quite frankly i find your post offensive.
My 22 year old son has rings in his ear and smokes. Even has a tattoo on his arm. I am not happy he smokes but you can only nag so much, The ear ring and tatts dont make him a dole bludger or a bad person!
This is a kid who did year 12. Went to tafe, catching 2 trains and a bus every day to get there. Left home at 6.30am and got home at 6 pm at night.
Is just about to finish his trade, and for the last 4 years has worked 84 hours a week in mining. He has already cracked 100K a year and isnt even a tradie yet,
Dont judge kids by the way they look. They just may be more educated then you and earn more.
He is polite and has a very caring nature. When home he visits his grandma and takes her shopping and mows her lawns and does little jobs for her.
Why? Because i sat with him when little to do homework and listened to him read. Education isnt all done in the class room. Parents need to take an active concern and participation in their education. Teachers cant do it all.
Thu 04 Apr 13 (08:02am)
Hey Kitter Litter have you spoken to students and teachers at your local school yet about your Labor disaster parties lap tops in schools idea where most teachers could not be bothered using them because they were more trouble then a help.
Oh that's right you don't deal with reality your too busy swallowing and repeating the lies and propaganda you are fed everyday.
Thu 04 Apr 13 (04:23pm)
Glitter, give up nobody takes you seriously, your twisted logic is so petty leftoid and dumb.
Thu 04 Apr 13 (05:39pm)
Peter B......your comment to the loonies who haunt this blog are always entertaining.
You've probably noticed that I have avoided answering robert and G&D;as I figure I may as well talk to the plants like bonny prince Charlie does than to that pair who seem to get their jollies off by attacking commentors without providing substantial argument or even sticking to the subject as presented by the blog operator.
Empty vessels make the most sound!
Thu 04 Apr 13 (06:38pm)
Well thats great PeterB..
Computers "are more trouble then a help" in schools.
Yes mate… this from some one who thinks that the science of climate change is a socialist consiracy.. even though conservatives across the world and in this country have a policy to reduce carbon. Is that propaganda Pete.. or the truth..??
(this is were the rant of no consequence comes in)
As if you have any credibility what-so-ever mate.. You've probably out of the loop a bit there ol son, but wouldn't matter how good your grammer is… in TODAY'S WORLD if your not computer literate.
Which is why conservatives are threathened by the NBN… they think it's for games, porn or as Abbott put it, "fast emails". LoL.
Godparticle helps us… pleasssse.
Fri 05 Apr 13 (09:25am)
Thats just fabulous wingnut…
Bill Gates is a communist mate… as is Pope Francis and Pope Benedict who have called for action on human induced climate change. Who do you obey again..??
And I'm off to North Korea now to watch the fireworks. You'll be also be very sad to know that the Governor of Connecticut has BANNED or restricted assault weapons in the wake of 22 innocent children dying as a result of conservative America and their love for guns. As was Ander Breivik another right wingnutter who slautered 71 innocent people, mostly children.
You must be very proud of your ideology.
Sat 06 Apr 13 (08:48am)
Thanks Nemesis, I enjoy giving the loonies a reality check but feel sorry for them when I leave them floundering like the fools and cowards that they are. Why people cant deal with reality and be honest about things is sad and they have no one to blame but themselves really.
Just look at Kitty Litter's comments. I pointed out how according to our local high school most teachers did not use the laptops because they are more of a hassle to use then not use. Students just said they were a waste of space but Kitty Litter doesn't want to deal with reality he just spins and lies. The poor dishonest fool tries to make out I think computers in schools or the library are a bad idea when I am talking about the Labor parties disastrous laptop policy.
Yes you may as well talk to your plants they will at least appreciate your wisdom and the carbon dioxide which by the way plants love so much and will produce better quality fruit and flowers but lets not remind the loonies about that they don't like reality checks.
Poor Kitty Litter still a sucker for the global warming scam. Some folk enjoy making fool of themselves and kitty litter is classic. Keep those brain dead comments coming Kitty I'm lov'in it.
Hows little boy lost robert ? OMG You just got to feel sorry for that kid and someone should go to prison for what they have done to that poor child.
Sat 06 Apr 13 (10:53am)
Computers do come in handy, they give us an ability to communicate our utter distaste of this lousy government. When the nationwipes this rabble out of office. We will carry on sticking it to their myopic supporters, via computers, phones and paper. It's funny how technology and capitalism fit so well.
Sat 06 Apr 13 (05:38pm)
G&D;wrote "Tradition… ?? The three R's..?? It's a new world of IT out there ... and Rupert doesn't like it"
OECD wrote "students' reading ability, skills in maths and level in sciences, ... are more reliable predictors of economic and social well-being"
Written communication skills were not mentioned, but any suggestion that this is also not a very important skill is risible, even from the leftoids
Sat 06 Apr 13 (09:29pm)
@ shelby You didn't read my post did you, because if you had read it you would have read that I said " in some cases children are smarter than the teachers BECAUSE OF THE PARENTS SCARIFIES" . SCARIFIES " can come in any form be it working 2-3 jobs to send your child to a elite school, going without non essentials, moving to another country, sending your child to boarding school in another country, helping with home work after working a long day, etc, etc.
You are right to say never to judge a book by its cover , my post was referring to what I have seen and heard and I am in no doubt that the group of teenagers I spoke about would struggle to do, in the same situation as your son has done.
You have ever right to be proud of your son he sounds like a smart and nice person.
Mon 08 Apr 13 (07:13am)
@glitter&doom;. Teaching a child to read requires the actual & committed presence of a teacher and student/s, oh and a book. How will spending squillions of $$ improve that? You can take the proverbial horse to water but can't force it to drink. Unless a society values knowledge and the ability to make its own decisions, unless there is a desire in society to learn there will be no improvement. Throwing money at schools will not conjure improvement. Was tried in 1980s in Victoria to no avail.
Tue 09 Apr 13 (01:21am)
In a nation where too many adults get their 'information' from low grade commercial TV, populist talkback and newspaper bloggers who promote such anti-science rubbish as AGW denial, why are we surprised that so many children under-perform at school?
Since 1970 almost every country in the OECD has substantially increased its spending on education yet very few of the school systems achieved significant improvements in performance. One study based on the results of national and international assessments showed that in many school systems performance had either flat-lined or deteriorated.
Source: http://www.smhc-cpre.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/how-the-worlds-best-performing-school-systems-come-out-on-top-sept-072.pdf
Tue 02 Apr 13 (08:54pm)
Tue 02 Apr 13 (10:10pm)
What an utterly novel approach - money has not fixed the problem therfore taking money away will somehow create the ideal learning environment.
It's all very new age and holistic - you know - dilute funding to such a degree that a mere suggestion of it will cause disproportinate outcomes (in order to get it).
As for bust a nut Pyne how exactly is replacing skills with "knowledge" going to help kids face the future (YOU WILL NO LONGER BE TAUGHT HOW TO THINK YOU WILL NOW BE TAUGHT WHAT TO THINK). Seriously, if this is good policy then George Orwell got the date wrong by Thirty Years.
Every single parent and teacher knows that each individual child responds differently to different teaching techniques. There is no one size fits all educational silver bullet. If there were we could force feed young minds through the mill and have a monkey run the asylum - surely that's not what busta nut's peddling is it?
Wed 03 Apr 13 (02:34am)
Noddy wrote: "It's all very new age and holistic - you know - dilute funding to such a degree that a mere suggestion of it will cause disproportinate outcomes (in order to get it)."
I can understand your concern Noddy, clearly the education system has let you down.
Wed 03 Apr 13 (09:03am)
@ Noddy. You live up to your name. Have you ever attended a university? Well let me tell you that most of the young people attending in their first year are practically illiterate. They have no concept of putting words together that make sense, have no idea how to plan out an assignment or to argue a point with good language skills. When you consider that their university classes depend on their being able to do this and to be able to read and understands what they are reading, then they have no hope. Their teachers and lecturers are as inadequate as they are because they may know their subject, but they can't impart that knowledge.
Pouring more and more money into a flawed system is as foolish as it is wasteful. If the teachers are poorly educated themselves, how can we expect them to be able to educate our children successfully? No one is talking about diluting the amount of money spent on education, just getting value for the money already being spent. If you can't understand that, then you need to go back to school and learn to read.
Wed 03 Apr 13 (11:02am)
Mags. You hit the nail on the head there.
Wed 03 Apr 13 (12:46pm)
Mags you are correct, but this is nothing new, nor is it confined to Australia. 30 years ago, in my 20's, I worked for a senior lawyer in New Zealand who lectured at the University of Auckland. Once he showed me some of the exam papers he was marking. These were supposedly well educated students whose academic achievements at school had qualified them to study law. I was appalled. These students were only a little younger than myself and yes many were practically illiterate - dreadful handwriting, atrocious spelling, cringeworthy grammar and rampant mis-use of the long suffering apostrophe combined to render many answers utterly incomprehensible. These days many of them are possibly partners in various law firms, politicians or even teaching law themselves. Frightening isn't it. Something in the education system is very broken, and has been for some time. A far more radical treatment is required than simply throwing more money at it.
Thu 04 Apr 13 (06:56am)
@Mags. So what is Bustanuts plan? DO NOTHING! Chris Pynes stated policy is:
1- Retain current model for at least two years (with "indexation" which will ironically deliver increases in funding to private schools at the expense of public schools) - this is the same failing model put in place during the Howard Govt.
2- Hold off on any changes until the "people" decide what they want (around the next federal election - are you seeing a pattern here?)
AND thats it! Any talk from Bustanut or Phony Tony about better teachers is a smoke screen simply because their policy doesn't fund or develop any - further - the Gonski review is a valid and worthwhile study into what steps SHOULD be taken not necessarily what can be afforded (Is labor trying to apply all of Gonski or some?).
So Mags, people could argue all day about targeted funding, phonetics or whole word learning, rote learning or whatever method takes your fancy but at the end of the day but 2 facts remain:
1-The current failing sytem was put in place during the Howard Govt.
2- Gonski is the new system designed to fix the old - can we afford it, can we afford not to do it?
Thu 04 Apr 13 (06:09pm)
wingnut, the neocons and republicans also use i pads and modern technology. there is a history that the republicans would like to erase as well eg iraq, afghanistan, the GFC. the list is long. far too long for a simpleton like you to concentrate on
Fri 05 Apr 13 (03:51pm)
1-The current failing sytem was put in place during the Howard Govt.
2- Gonski is the new system designed to fix the old - can we afford it, can we afford not to do it?
Yep blame Howard I love how Labor keep trotting out this never tiring excuse. Like Gillard now saying Howard wasted the pre GFC which is laughable. Rudd and Gillard had it better and for that matter all they have done is rack up huge amounts of debt with nothing to show for it.
2. Labor's solution to everything is throw money at it Noddy and it doesn't necessarily fix the problem. We can afford not to if the handling of this goes like BER, Pink Batts Border protection and the NBN. Labor have a track record of over promising and under delivering.
Sat 06 Apr 13 (05:35am)
@ Rooboy. Let's put this in perspective. The comments and blog have so far been largely about how poor education is and how the Noalition can fix it - right? My response is basically the facts IE:
1- The current funding model was put in place during the Howard Govt.
2- The LNP Noalition have a stated policy of DO NOTHING.
You go on to suggest the BER has failed or was mishandled. Exactly what percentage of the overall projects had problems 1 or 2%? -further- have you been to a school lately and seen these items in use, my local public school uses theirs after school hours as a meeting hall for various groups who PAY FOR THE PRIVILEDGE. Curiously this actually benefits school and they have a building that is built to last.
I don't want to rub your face in it but if the BER alone was labors legacy i'd be impressed - compared with Howards legacy of Iraq and Afghanistan, i wonder just how much those adventures have cost us already - fortunately labor extracted us from Iraq and are working towards withdrawing from Afghanistan. What with the current North Korean crisis I would much prefer a calmer approach to conflict resolution than Phony Tonys "it's my way or the highway" style. (please note i am not calling for appeasement either).
Mon 08 Apr 13 (11:24am)
Rub my face in it all you like BER was a massive waste of money which really gave schools overpriced halls which they didn't need. Here is your problem you think that is a good legacy to have you are dreaming.
I also noted you didn't mention Pink Batts or the NBN in your reply. Once again Labor couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery and if they did the invites would go out three weeks late and it would be over budget by a ridiculous amount and somehow Abbott would cop the blame.
Labor has been in office now for 6 years so it is time to stop the blame game and actually govern. Now all we have is a Labor soap opera.
Australia will improve in the classroom when the Labor illiterates are out of office.
Tue 02 Apr 13 (09:25pm)
Wed 03 Apr 13 (01:16am)
so the education issues all resulted from 07 onwards? Please tell me what the Howard gov't did for any education institution in this country other than push for more Australian History to be taught. Blame Labor fine but dont claim they are evil and the LNP will save the day cause they have yet to do that
Wed 03 Apr 13 (10:48am)
@nathan...... If my memory serves me correct Qld, NSW and Vic had a labor government for a decade plus years that determined the outcome of our teachers and the way they taught our children. The fruit we are picking today is from that union labor tree of leftist education that is chock full of leftist ideology and Marxist totalitarian rule.
The prime example, as we have had the unfortunate experience to have had, is this rabble Gillard/union green government ruling this country in a way never seen before.
Wed 03 Apr 13 (06:02pm)
Oooo eye cee annieg…
Gillard rules the country ... but Howard didn't have any influence.
It gets worse Miranda. My wife is a speech therapist. Lack of knowledge of words means that many kids only know approximations of the words they are using. By not actually reading the letters, applying phonics, they don't really know the words they are using.
In the past, my wife has found many teachers antagonistic and feeling threatened. But indeed they are threatened as other professions step to take over in areas where teachers fail.
Other professions ? Well even uni's undertake remedial classes to fix up the mess the teachers create. I used to be an academic, now run my own consultancy.
What next ? No moon landings since 1970 odd. AGW. No wonder they can't think.
Tue 02 Apr 13 (09:30pm)
Wed 03 Apr 13 (07:34am)
Polemicist - I always taught my children that if they spoke properly and pronounced words correctly they would have a much better chance of knowing how to spell. Also that reading would increase their knowledge of words and information - as well as being enjoyable. I was difficult that way, but it paid off. My generation was taught by memorising and being tested on spelling lists.
Anything goes these days in spelling and grammar and you are right so many do not have a good grasp of words, including their usage. Phrases like "would of" drive me nuts!
Wed 03 Apr 13 (11:51pm)
I chatted to my wife about this, this evening. It appears I am out-of-date. Qld has moved back to phonics. How much I don't know.
I have my suspicions. Those who have taught whole word will stick with it I reckon. Which is why they hate tests.
One of my wife's friends from Tas dropped in recently. Poor woman, her husband ran off with the new model. My wife has several such friends. I'm disgusted.
Anyhow, she's a primary teacher and we got into discussion about basics and she vigorously defended whole word. So I don't think they'll drop this nonsense quickly.
My sister-in-law is a teacher of primary school students. She won awards during her Diploma of Education regarding her teaching style. She is also functionally illiterate and innumerate. Her understanding of basic grammar is non-existent, her spelling appalling, her ability to understand the basis of language poor, cannot add up without a calculator. Her class sizes are small (As she works in the state public system), and yet after having children in year 6 she could not accept it a failure of her personal KPIs when those same students in year 7 failed to achieve the national average in the NAPLAN tests. However, to her advantage, she become the union representative at her school and primary schools are not yet under the independent state school system.
Tue 02 Apr 13 (10:16pm)
Wed 03 Apr 13 (05:18am)
Well CA of WA......if she is capable of reading your comment (which seems unlikely) you are going to have a miserable life from now on, from your partner and your sister in law. You have great courage
Wed 03 Apr 13 (05:54am)
Sounds like your sister-in-law is just the type of teacher the left wants.Easy to indoctrinate with socialist ideals,as she has no ability to comprehend anything else but the well worn phrase:They're conservitives so they must be bad.
Thu 04 Apr 13 (06:11pm)
holty, at least the socialists have ideals. the right wingers just have a profit motive
Sat 06 Apr 13 (10:28am)
Yes great ideas roberto the Socialist/Marxist Progressives have that's of course if you are into anarchy and chaos. No wonder the loony LEFT is the criminals and anarchist choice when it comes to political parties.
The Socialist/Marxist Progressives continue to move across the world like the economic, social and cultural wrecking ball that they are yet little boy lost still can't see the blatant obvious. Massive debt, borders in chaos, jobless, anarchy its the progressive way and yet still a sucker for the lies and spin about the socialist/Marxist Progressive initiated GFC or the global warming scams.
Poor roberto still cant get his head around George Soros is a Progressive. Soros is happy to admit it but as usual roberto's ideological fantasy over rides any form of reality, logic or common sense.
So roberto when are you moving to your beloved Communist country ? It must be horrible for you living in a free democratic and Capitalist country. Remember to put all you lunch money on Gillard and the disaster party to win the next election, its a sure thing isn't roberto
Reading ?!
If you want to know what happens to a language when reading and writing are poor just look at English. Borrowed from hired mercenary Saxons from Germany around 700 AD by some ignorant scaredy cat prehistoric English king to fight the Picts. Very few historical written records because they were barbaric. I expect early English was little more than an assembly of clicks and grunts. From 1066-1400 odd we had to use French because our language was so poor, French to issue written orders, plan, record, write laws, deduce knowledge. The English we speak today is only about 200 years old. It was not until the 1800's or so that we dispensed with six plural forms and just used s or es. Until then it was shoen for shoes, housen for houses. Not altogether gone. It is still oxen rather than oxes.
Do French, German, Italian, better .. Latin and learn what a real language is. English lacks structure. Latin can be spoken in any order without punctuation and it is still sensible and accurate. Latin in Roman days did not have full stops. Meanings are far clearer. Punctuation and grammar is only necessary in English because it is such a botched language. English depends on sequence and is highly prone to ambiguity. When working with engineering researchers developing Eurocodes they claimed that they often had to write drafts in German to get meanings clear for general agreement of the code committee and then convert to English for the poorly educated masses.
We should have an academy to protect our language. Run by conservatives. It would serve to make clear who is of better stock. Whose knowledge is well founded in the disciplines rather than the backward new age of relativist pseudo-science and teaching schools.
Yes, it is permissable to adopt any Latin word in English .. only because 2/3 of our words are French and French has a high Latin content thanks to the exploits of Julius Caesar. He knew how to kick barbarian ass !
I much prefer to give a cool cordial reception (French) than a hearty welcome (Saxon). I prefer to eat beef and pork (French) rather than cow and pig (Saxon). You can see where this poor reading can lead to ! Makes us sound like savages. And of course bra is far more refined than bustenholter.
Poor ignorant fools who can't think and dream up agw should stay with their own class-less group of people.
When my parents went to school in the 1950's in Brisbane, there were just three state high schools – State High (academic), Technical High and Commercial High. The rest left school at 12 (and I bet they learnt more than kids staying at school with a bunch of sheltered workshop teachers - Latin for underqualified and impractical child minders ? Perhaps.) There were also a handful of private high schools. To get into uni, one had to have credits in maths, science (real science), Latin and English. A credit in those days ranks with distinction today. I went to State High. Our class won Its Academic nationally. Our class had the state duxes in maths, chem, physics and languages. We won the national titles in Rugby and did well in rowing. Many in the Olympics.
Those who went to uni faced an attrition rate of 40%. Kids were failed even if they passed. There were so few places. And rightly so. We should not have barbarians in our academes. Then we can have a decent language.
And here in blogs we argue the most inane nonsense like agw, whether learning to read is sensible etcetera … For gorsakes ! Why fight it ? Let them have their relativist drivel. It is time for the inevitable next stage of evolution. Time to leave leftism behind, like the Berlin Wall. It's for animals. Worse. Our dog is far more capable in learning tricks and communicating.
Tue 02 Apr 13 (10:30pm)
Wed 03 Apr 13 (12:29am)
Well said sir !! (Madam?)
Wed 03 Apr 13 (12:57am)
If Latin is such a wonderful language....why doesn't anyone speak it anymore?( Apart from some $12,000 per kilo coffee bean latte sipping, Nostradamus studying sect in a 40 x 50 metre sqaure in Italy).
Moreover....why is the pre-eminent language of the world your much maligned English???
Tell us, O' Noble Polemicis....why is EVERY SINGLE computer on the planet SOURCE CODED in the language known as English??
It is English based, NOT LATIN, computer source code, that lets buffoons like you have your say here at The Daily Telegraph!!
Polemicis....do the right thing: FADE OFF....into poetic ambiguity from these digital pages and their robust arguements, just like your beloved lost and LONG FORGOTTEN, REDUNDANT language of Latin.
Wed 03 Apr 13 (09:07am)
RobC, it's sir, mate, just a guy who yearns common sense. That families be families, kids believe in opportunity and have a go, put sport back in schools, being ok to say "we won", let women rise in their own ways without feminist constructs, enjoying camping without some leftist green nazi fencing us out ... Etc.
The Seer,
I don't believe in trying to win arguments. Arguments do not determine what is right. Argument conducted properly is investigative. For what is, is.
English is the dominant language because of business. If the Chinese take over, watch out. English is the language that emerged from the barbarian takeover of Rome.
By chance one of our sons did Latin for a couple of years. Quite hard. So I helped as best I could. It's a wonderful language. Very well structured. It opens up so much of our language like learning phonics. It helps to understand why the words are what they are. We didn't get our Latin from the Roman occupation in England up to 300AD. The Normans gave it to us. Our first kings were French. And France and England one country to the year 1400 odd.
I often quote a few Latin words to show how poorly we understand. Imagine how our culture would improve if we broadly understood. Take the word minister. Prime minister, minister of govt, administer, church minister. We expect it means boss of some sort. No, it means to serve. How much better thousands of years ago understood. Do our govt ministers serve? People toiling. On average each federal electorate contributed $2B to revenue pa. Hard bloody work. And we have Gillard and crew piss it up against the wall on waste. The word minister emphasizes humility and empathy.
Another Latin word, harbour means gate. Puts a greater understanding in the role of sea travel..
Like the kid in the dark, lack of knowledge makes you fearful Seer.
You may want me to run away, because your type cannot adjust. But I am here, I will always be here like the sun and as sure as people want to grow. As sure as good is good and the bad go to the trash can.
I could crush you anytime I choose.
I believe in principles. Principles are the pillars of great civilization. For without them we become Hannibal Lecters.
And that is what is angers me about this current lot of absolute ferals.
Wed 03 Apr 13 (11:18am)
Nice work.
Why did you use this sentence?-
As sure as good is good and the bad go to the trash can.
Where does the word "trash" come from?
Could it be an American stuff up too?
The English word should be "rubbish" not "trash".
We should all be using the Queens English.
Wed 03 Apr 13 (01:38pm)
That pedestal your standing on is getting a bit lop sided. Trying to balance that ego Is making you vulnerable to falling off.
Somebody once said that if the Chinese had invented the computer we would all be speaking Chinese. Anyhow they did not and probably will not invent anything significant. They only copy others inventions. They are however the worlds greatest reverse engineers.
Thu 04 Apr 13 (12:37am)
M you're a pedant.
Reverse engineering is close to home. It's a stupid expression that came out of Sydney effectively. Ego is only a reflection of your inadequacy.
No I look back and that's the way it was. I went through school. As kids struggled, they were sent to the dunces cornet. They seldom came back. And today we push nonsense through uni's.
Mock the Chinese at your peril. How old are you son? Are you capable of remembering how the Japs were mocked? China is seven times or so larger than Japan.
Mahatihir said that questioning is what distinguishes Europeans. We may be inventive, but we are barely 10% of the earth's population.
English survive? Very much in the balance?
Thu 04 Apr 13 (05:50pm)
Oh yeah, take me back to 1950's QLD, the centre of enlightenment.
I wish the soon to be ex PM the best of luck when she meets the newly re-elected (for 4 years) Premier of WA at the COAG meeting. The system now in use WA is proving very popular and more and more schools are signing up for it each year. You see, there is no demanding you take part. If the parents and staff etc agree, then they apply to have their school take part and then they virtually run the school themselves. On a slightly different note WA also has a fairly successful version of the NDIS in which the government funds 70% of the costs. I think Madam might have to do a bit of extra homework on Barnett to get him to accept her version on this also. At least she won't have to worry about discussions with State labor as their leader runs away from any confrontations with Ms Gillard.
Tue 02 Apr 13 (10:31pm)
I agree, Mr. Pyne is the man for the job. He is a safe pair of hands. Mr. Abbott will appreciate his presence.
Tue 02 Apr 13 (10:45pm)
I know a couple who covertly taught their early primary school children to rote learn their 2- 12 times tables, to phonetically read, do running writing and rote learn spelling lists.
Both the parents were taken to one side one evening at a parent teacher function and quietly told that they had reared a couple of geniuses. Neither they or their children, divulged the extra curricular activities that led to this false assumption, as they all knew that it would not be well received.
Tue 02 Apr 13 (10:50pm)
A great article Miranda, Well done.
Tue 02 Apr 13 (11:02pm)
Wed 03 Apr 13 (11:12am)
The opinion expressed in this article encapsulates what every intelligent parent knows, but the amazing thing is that the ALP/unions do not. How frightening is that?
Thu 04 Apr 13 (08:34am)
Whats even more frigthening is that Howard presided over this system for twelve long long years…
By the way… do the states control the education system or the Feds..??
I suppose the Feds do when it's a Labor Federal Government with Liberal State governments as now.
But it's the States fault when it's a Liberal Federal Government with Labor State Goverments..
Isn't that how it works ...vic..??
Mon 08 Apr 13 (11:32am)
Well G&D;who is in power in most of the states oh that is right Labor governments.
Suppose that was Howard's fault too.
Gotta love the left mantra of never taking responsibility for anything it is always someone else's fault.
Gotta love the Labor way.
Miranda the first thing that is needed is discipline.
When I was at high school there were 43 in my classroom, and we did well.
We were absolutely required to toe the line. Misbehaviour was punished severely.
Ever since Whitlam many teachers have been forced to cope with severe disruption in class, particularly if they have a headmaster who does not support them with discipline.
It is very difficult for a school to rise above backward social attitudes in the community it serves.
I worry about the notion of headmasters freely hiring and firing. Individual schools will then become winners and losers, and the losers will become a burden on the whole of society.
There are poor headmasters, too, you know. There will be good teachers fired as well as incompetents.
Tue 02 Apr 13 (11:39pm)
Wed 03 Apr 13 (12:58pm)
Who's Whitlam… ??
Wed 03 Apr 13 (01:31pm)
Discipline indeed is sadly lacking Ted. The Teachers' Federation campaigned for years to outlaw corporal punishment in schools, and now their members bleat that they can't control their students. Sow as yea shall reap.
Our welfare state policies have created a feral underclass who are busily breeding the next generation of no-hopers, kids who face no repercussions for their actions & are constantly excused for antisocial behaviour. The "victim" mentality is obvious, you only have to look at the garbage excuses our court system swallows every time one of these "poor little dears" gets off with a tap on the wrist. The parents of these kids can offer no correcting influence, because most are simply older versions of the same malignancy.
How can we expect normal decent kids to get a proper education when they are distracted by these little ferals? There are no socially acceptable answers (the days of remand schools - or even the cane - are never coming back), as parents we need to spend time helping our kids with not just homework, but with engendering a sense of moral decency.
My 10yr old son is top of his form in math & gets high marks in all other subjects, his teachers have all said he's the best behaved boy in their classes & he's popular amongst his peers too, so my wife & I are clearly doing something right. Unlike the feral bogans, we actually care how our child grows up. I believe implicitly in the saying "You can't help people who won't help themselves", I'd bet a pretty fair slice of the 30% who leave school almost illiterate come from homes where the parent(s) simply doesn't care (but will readily blame anyone but themselves for their child's failings).
Fri 05 Apr 13 (08:20am)
Who's Whitlam… ??
Whitlam set Labor on course for disaster, now Gillard with the help of that gutless dud Rudd is finishing the job.
My mother, a teacher since the 50s (and still teaching now), used to go to the SPELD meetings.
She did a lot of after-school and in-her-own-time work toward better teaching.
Wed 03 Apr 13 (12:04am)
Go Mr. Pyne Go ...
My wife and I are the parents of 7 wonderful, amazing children, the youngest turning 18 in the next few months. As parents we decided long ago that we would not accept non-phonics based reading in the public system. We were forced to chose private school alternatives (at significant financial cost to us) and we were able to see each of the children through to university entrance into first choice courses for each of the six older children. Coming out the other side we have a successful lawyer, a budding vet, an overachieving bureaucrat/young politician, a caring social worker/theologian, a striving medical researcher, an innovative materials engineer/scientist with the youngest informing me today that his proposed software engineering degree will be supported with a commerce second degree course, "I have to know how to market any app I write\".
I apologise for bragging, but I doubt I would now be able to do so if as parents we had accepted the "whole of language" nonsense that was attempted to be foisted on the kids in their earlier years in the public system.
So I repeat… Go Mr. Pyne Go !!
Wed 03 Apr 13 (12:18am)
Grow up Devine.
If you can do better than the current lot, run for parliament and make the changes you see fit yourself.
You, Jones, Hadley, Bolt, Akerann and Smith.
Here's a tip.....call yourselves The Mouth Party.
Big on Mouth..... and *&#@ all else.
Whilst the current government is a disgrace, you and the afformentioned are even worse.
Democracy calls for a free and balanced press. When one day you perhaps find yourself a part of that, your words might be taken seriously (might...)
For now, all you are is a mouth piece for the removal of a certain political party. Little more. That Miss, is not the definition of a journalist. Far from it.
Of course, you are are far too self important to be included in such plebisch orchestrations of rank.
More fool you.
Wed 03 Apr 13 (12:33am)
Wed 03 Apr 13 (05:28am)
The Seer.....good rant........by chance are you a teacher.....if so, do you consider your job a 'vocation' or a 'pay cheque'
Wed 03 Apr 13 (06:46am)
So you have no idea what is going on in the education system and you call Miranda the fool.
It is obvious who the fool is Seer and you are not just a fool but a coward also, too scared to come to terms with what is going on in the education system or may be your just too stupid to work it out.
Wed 03 Apr 13 (07:50am)
It is ironic that you imply Miranda is anti-democratic. She is not part of "the free and balanced" press. If you had a brain, you'd see that she is writing an "OPINION" piece in the opinion section of the paper. Should you disagree with her opinion, you are free to send her a private email, or if she is in a good mood, she may even publish your crap, which she has done.
No-one is forcing you to buy the Daily Telegraph where you can read the "OPINIONS" of Bolt, Akerman, Blair or Miranda. They even have cretins like Paul Howes that offer his opinion. As for Jones or Hadley, you are free to switch from 2GB873 to the commie ABC.
You should change your nic from The Seer to Richard Head.
Wed 03 Apr 13 (08:56am)
This article hit a nerve did it Seer?
Isn't good journalism about exposing the mistakes of government? About exposing those issues that some people would rather not have exposed? Or would you rather the mess this current federal government has caused be kept under the rug like so many other so called 'journalists' are continuing to do,
People like Oakes, Hadley, Manne, Marr and of course their left wing employers like the ABC and Fairfax who generally fail the good and balanced journalist definition?
But not to worry Seer, you probably don't even realize, due to your aching nerve that Miranda has exposed, that the media and those it employs has never been so politically divided as it is now to the point where sides may be chosen.
You can't be much of a seer if you can't appreciate that!
Wed 03 Apr 13 (09:12am)
Oh dear, we have a feral barbarian in our midst. Miranda has a Becker Laureate or at least the equivalent. The BL is well beyond the capability of most of our schools.
Wed 03 Apr 13 (10:24am)
LOL at The Seer.
You can't argue Miranda's points, so you attack her personally.
Thank you for revealling yourself as another irrational, illogical, economically illterate, Modern Left Progressive. Don't forget to tell your Lefty buddies that the Loony Left era is about to end on September 14th.
Wed 03 Apr 13 (04:09pm)
Excuse me, Polemicist,
but what is a "Becker Laureate (BL)"
Where you, by the off-chance, referring to the International Baccalaureate (IB)?
It is really nice to see people know what they are talking about in here - you too, VI.
Thu 04 Apr 13 (11:53pm)
I was impatient. I typed it into Google and that is what I got. I expect you are right.
I used to mark 100's if exam papers. If they demonstrated understanding, irrespective of result, I gave 70/80% minimum. Exams are high pressure.
On the other hand, I would often get a random dump. Oh it was all there but no logic. Just a regurg. ... Zero.
Thu 04 Apr 13 (11:53pm)
I was impatient. I typed it into Google and that is what I got. I expect you are right.
I used to mark 100's if exam papers. If they demonstrated understanding, irrespective of result, I gave 70/80% minimum. Exams are high pressure.
On the other hand, I would often get a random dump. Oh it was all there but no logic. Just a regurg. ... Zero.
Thu 04 Apr 13 (11:53pm)
I was impatient. I typed it into Google and that is what I got. I expect you are right.
I used to mark 100's if exam papers. If they demonstrated understanding, irrespective of result, I gave 70/80% minimum. Exams are high pressure.
On the other hand, I would often get a random dump. Oh it was all there but no logic. Just a regurg. ... Zero.
Sat 06 Apr 13 (11:10pm)
You continually display that debate is not your forte. Being rude and offensive is your forte in buckets full.
Too bad there's a few of you polluting Miranda's blog.
How can you blame Labor without looking at what theLNP did. What we are seeing now is he result of a LNP who did nothing for education. You can disagree with this but you are so one eyed in all your pieces and ignore basic facts. Poorly written. You appeal to peopl who agree with you anyone with half a brain can pull you to shreads
Wed 03 Apr 13 (01:14am)
Wed 03 Apr 13 (09:11am)
Nathan, your political bias is showing. This article is more about throwing huge amounts of money at a dysfunctional system than in scoring political points.
Our education systems are federally funded but state controlled, and depending on which state you may live in depends on how that once reliable system has been compromized by progressive thinking ushered in under Labor governments and then supported by Coalition governments.
The education departments of all states need to be drastically overhauled and progressive thinking removed to be replaced by those who believe that the three Rs are the most important learning tools that the state can give to each generation.
You see Nathan, socialism fails us all and has a proven track record of failing in every nation that has fallen for its lies. We have been no different in believing the falsehoods of socialism, but now it is time to grow up and face the REAL world, not pander to an imaginary utopian world which does not and cannot exist, no matter how much wishful thinking is put in behind it!
Wed 03 Apr 13 (09:31am)
You might remember, if you ever knew, that education is a STATE responsibility. Considering that in NSW, Queensland, SA and Victoria have had long term serving LABOR governments over the past 20 years, your argument is specious. That means, all those little underachieving darlings, product of the public school system, are self perpetuating in tertiary institutions.
Being critical of a person because you don't agree with them doesn't give you the right to respond to Miranda's article in the way you did. If you don't like what she writes, don't read her blog. Simple. And we would appreciate it as well, since you bring nothing of value to the discussion.
Thu 04 Apr 13 (04:38am)
So Nathan, anyone with half a brain can can pull Miranda to shreds......your words, dude.
Well I suppose that one line demonstrates the empty state of your skull......how do you survive without even half a brain?
Please, enlighten us Nathan......but this time, use a spell checker and check your grammar.......have a friend with a whole brain check your work. Your last literary effort unwittingly proved you are indeed a product of the failed education system in your state.
You may also wish to ask your whole brained friend to explain my response.
Thu 04 Apr 13 (03:08pm)
Thats just bloody great mags...
Except you'll find that the states are mostly LNP now and have been for some time…
Have there been any announcments on changing the system by those states...?? Is it their responsibility now..??
While it appears that some "incidental phonics" is taught which requires the whole system being "nuked" by our very own Chrissy Pyne.
Isn't he Federal...??
Spin spin spin ...eh.
Thu 04 Apr 13 (06:20pm)
@ Top. I'd back Nathans V12 bently running on six cylinders over your overextended 2stroke any day.
Fnily enuf u dn't aktly neeed a fncy spl chkr to get mning acrss.
Howzat edukashun going witless?
Miranda, a well put together piece. I notice Farmer Ted can't make a statement without getting lost & contradicting himself as he often does.
Wed 03 Apr 13 (01:25am)
Sat 06 Apr 13 (03:04am)
maurie, your interpretation suggests that you are a victim of the systemic flaws of which Miranda writes. Confusion rules.
Even the Gonski report states "current funding arrangements for schooling are unnecessarily complex, lack coherence and transparency, and involve a duplication of funding effort in some areas"
We can understand why teacher's representatives would be endorsing writing a blank cheque of billions of dollars, but I agree it is repugnant that our children's education is being used to achieve this purpose when all reputable studies suggest the same thing, our children need better quality teachers, not more of them.
Wed 03 Apr 13 (02:38am)
"I Give a Gonzo" would be a more accurate title for this 'reform'.
Gonzo (adjective)
1.Of or associated with journalistic writing of an exaggerated, subjective, and fictionalized style.
2.Bizarre or crazy.
Wed 03 Apr 13 (05:15am)
Like the Catholic church, the Australian education system, run by teacher union operatives subscribe to the theory "Give me the child and I will give you the man".
The progressive Left has infiltrated our schools and universities and turned them into places not of learning and curiosity, but of brainwashing and propagandising.
Our kids are being force fed a socialist diet of soppy leftist nihilism, victimhood and guilt about our history and British / European heritage.
Government schools have become compulsory indoctrination centres, designed to turn out good little leftists that will vote Labor without thinking or blinking.
Christopher Pine has a huge job on his hands reforming this Stalinist education system.
I wish him good luck, but I am not holding my breath!
Wed 03 Apr 13 (05:53am)
Thu 04 Apr 13 (08:10am)
Spot on as usual Jim.
Sadly there are many sheeple out there that still have no idea what these wolves in sheep's clothing are up to.
Thu 04 Apr 13 (06:06pm)
Thats right Jim…
Their even teaching the kiddies the established science of climate change… would you believe it.
Top `o` the world to you Ms Devine.
Thank you for a vital article.Mr Pyne is correct(imo), knowledge should be the precedent.Then interested skill.He is a brave gent, for aiming high to counteract the neglect and highlight the importance of methodology and repair of the now seemingly stupid system.
Good ON Mr Pyne.He shows he genuinely cares well for many.
His father would be proud as am I, in reading that.
Educators should strive positively toward those once respected goals mentioned, rather than waste students `time` and parents funds arguing the fact.
Go Team Liberals for Australian`s , together.
Regard sent Miranda.
Wed 03 Apr 13 (06:00am)
Thu 04 Apr 13 (02:53pm)
I love Chris Pyne WiiS.
As you know, my brother is an Assoc. Professor of Education, and he says the Gonski review has so many holes in it that it's ridiculous.
Teaching phonics is sorely lacking in English, you are spot on Miranda.
I have had to teach my 17 y.o grandson the basic art of syllabifying words to help improve his spelling. Teachers needs to get back to basics, reading, writing and arithmetic.
Thu 04 Apr 13 (06:04pm)
You love Chris Pyne do you BEL ? lol.
This is the same Chris Pyne that was coaching James Ashby.
I wonder what Ashby thinks of Chrissy now that the little scheme has been called by a judge for what it was.
Pyne is a pompous girlie whiner.
He makes old Alex Downer look like Clint Eastwood.
I guess theres no accounting for taste.
Miranda Devine
Miranda Devine is a hard-hitting journalist who writes for Sydney's Daily Telegraph.
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Daily Telegraph Blogs – Talk to your journalists


text:
that sinking feeling: Bob Lewis, a candidate for Pittsburg City Council, is an experienced politician who knows the value of sharing his views with the media.
So when he returned a phone call asking why he was running for a council seat in the November election, Lewis had an excellent excuse for his tardy reply. He had dropped his cell phone in the ocean.
"It fell in the ocean while I was on vacation with the kids in Santa Cruz," Lewis explained when he returned the phone call about two weeks after it was first made. "I was leaning over to look at something, and had shorts on and it fell right out."
That predicament left Lewis, who served on the City Council from 1989 to 2002, unable to listen to the 30 messages left over a 17-day period before he was able to get a replacement phone Aug. 24.
"The only thing I lost was all the pictures I had taken. Stuff happens," he said.
NOTHING TO HIDE: Calling himself an "open book," Hercules City Council candidate Bill Kelly has submitted a packet of employment reviews, job references, college records and letters of recommendation to this newspaper for public review.
"The lead plank of my campaign platform is, 'I want Hercules to operate the most open government in California,'" the attorney and former San Francisco police officer said in an email to this newspaper. "Releasing this information voluntarily is simply 'putting my money where my mouth is.'"
"My hope is that this is one more way we can keep this campaign focused on the real issues," Kelly continued. "The point I am making is that Bill Kelly is an open book!"
Kelly is one of seven candidates for three Hercules council seats in the Nov. 6 election. The others are incumbents Gerard Boulanger, Dan Romero and William Wilkins, and challengers Sherry McCoy, Hector Rubio and Phil Simmons.
In 2010, Kelly fell just short of winning a seat on the Rodeo-Hercules Fire District board, placing fourth in a seven-person contest for three seats.
Kelly's credentials packet includes references from his gigs with the police department, juvenile court, state Court of Appeal, Department of Parking and Traffic, and Hyatt Regency Hotel, all in San Francisco, and a San Rafael law firm. He also includes recommendations from a municipal court judge, a former police officer and a City College of San Francisco official, and a transcript from that college's criminology department and a credit record from San Francisco Law School.
You can find Kelly's packet at ContraCostaTimes.com by searching for his name.
UNLIKELY PAIRING: A sewage-treatment plant and a Richmond-based nonprofit devoted to the health of San Francisco Bay.
An odd couple?
Maybe, but they came together to polish up some of Richmond's best shorelines on Aug. 24.
Veolia Richmond, a sewage-treatment company, and the Watershed Project came together with Councilman Corky Booze and dozens of volunteers to clean up Keller Beach and Ferry Point.
The workers snagged more than 50 pounds of trash and debris, and hauled it away.
The Watershed Project is an advocacy group based at the University of California's Richmond Field Station and has been involved in local shoreline, marsh and creek restoration since 1997. Richmond has an industrial legacy but may have a greener future.
Earlier this year, the project organized a massive volunteer cleanup at Point Molate Beach Park and the completion of a bioswale near the Richmond Greenway.
AS SEEN ON TV: The Eye was invited to see the surprised face of Virginia Rundell and her husband last week, as the Publishers Clearing House Prize Patrol made its way to her Antioch home.
Rundell said she has entered the sweepstakes drawing for years but never expected to see a suited man with a large fake check for $10,000, roses and balloons at her doorstep, along with a cameraman.
Dan Sayer, the company's executive director, presented a stunned Rundell with a real check.
"Things like this don't happen to us," Virginia Rundell said.
Greg Rundell couldn't hide his disbelief.
"Is this a joke? Like Candid Camera or something," he said.
Virginia said the retired couple, who are living off a fixed income, would use the money to "catch up on a few things."
Thursday was Publishers Clearing House's first trip to Antioch that Sayer could recall in his 23 years doing the Prize Patrol.
Staff writers Eve Mitchell, Tom Lochner, Robert Rogers and Paul Burgarino contributed to this report.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Search committee settles on two finalists for Dallas park director but doesn't release names
Update at 2:05 p.m.:
Park board President Max Wells initially said he'd be able to reveal the names of the two finalists for park director on Monday. It looks like Monday arrived early.
He called not long ago to say the finalists and those cut from the list had been notified. The previous list had five finalists.
The new finalists are Dallas assistant park director Willis Winters and Sue Black, former parks, recreation and culture director for Milwaukee County, Wis.
Willis is an architect who has written a book about the history of Fair Park and received a 2010 Dallas Preservation Achievement Award.
The award-winning Black was the subject of a high profile firing in August. Her boss did not publicly reveal a reason for the firing, which apparently shocked local officials, according to news reports.
Original post at 12:30 p.m.:
The search for Dallas' new park director has been narrowed from five finalists to two. But their identities won't be announced until Monday to give officials time to notify the candidates.
Max Wells, president of the Dallas Park and Recreation Board, made the announcement at a board meeting this morning after a closed session briefing. The new park director is hired by the board and is not submitted to the City Council for approval.
A seven-member park board search committee reviewed 114 applications for the job – the first time it's been open in two decades – and settled on five finalists in late November. Wells said he expects the search committee to wrap up its work in early January and hand over the rest of the job to the full park board.
Wells said both finalists will go through a thorough background check. All new city hires are screened for criminal backgrounds but this check will also include a credit history and verification of educational credentials.
The previously announced list of finalists included three internal candidates and two external ones. They are assistant director Daniel Huerta; assistant director John Jenkins; assistant director Willis Winters; Subhajeet Seve Ghose, parks and recreation director in Davenport, Iowa; and Sue Black, former parks, recreation and culture director for Milwaukee County, Wis.
One of those candidates is expected to replace Paul Dyer, who retired recently after heading the Dallas park department for about 20 years. Rudy Bush profiled Dyer in September and his accomplishments in turning around the park system.
A bit of controversy was added to the process when council member Dwaine Caraway second guessed the park board's plans to hire from within. Caraway said the board should hire a professional search firm, something many board members considered an unnecessary expense.
The board did however expand its search nationwide and included external candidates in the list of finalists.


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Posted: Feb 10 2012, 12:53 AM
Group: Admin
Posts: 4,901
Member No.: 1
Joined: 27-June 09
I am the administrator of Loving Our Friends, and I want to welcome you to our board. I would like for you to introduce yourself and tell us a little about you. Do you have a friend on our board that reccommended you to us, or how did you come to find our board?
I believe you will find several topics here to keep you reading for quite some time. Please feel free to jump right in and start posting. Everyone here will be glad to welcome you and answer any questioins you might have.
We have a wonderful group of people that just enjoy visiting with each other, and I know they will be glad to make your acquaintenance.
Welcome aboard.
Board Administrator.
I have been young and now am old ,yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken nor his seed begging bread.Psalm 37:25[pdata]http://z3.invisionfree.com/Loving_our_Friends/index.php?showtopic=105[/pdata]
|home to suppertime
Posted: Mar 9 2012, 09:02 PM
Friendly Neighbor
Group: Members
Posts: 32
Member No.: 95
Joined: 9-March 12
Judy, sure have missed you and all the folks I knew way back when. You probably know me from facebook. and remember me from here as fishing for Him. And I was with you way back on positive thoughts. Missed all of you and so glad to be back. You were always an insparation to me and I always looked forward to reading every post. Love you girl.
Posted: Apr 12 2012, 11:25 PM
Friendly Neighbor
Group: Members
Posts: 36
Member No.: 9
Joined: 27-June 09
Welcome home to suppertime to this friendly group. I was part of positive thoughts too. I have been missing for awhile, but I do check in now and then. Think it will be more now and less then from now on. This is a place that I need to be.~Spragadoo~
Posted: Apr 13 2012, 01:26 PM
New Member
Group: Members
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Member No.: 99
Joined: 13-April 12
I found your site in a round about way. I saw a post at our Senior center that had apparently been copied from here. It was the Maxine post about four dead worms in church. When I googled 4 dead worms in church, I came up with your site.
I am an 81 year old semi retired piano tuner/technician, married and have been messing around with computers since before the internet. I am an active member of 1st Christain church (Disc of Christ) in Wauseon Ohio.We have 4 children still living and 5 grands and 11 great grands. Ain't life wonderful.
Posted: Apr 14 2012, 09:02 AM
Group: Admin
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Joined: 27-June 09
Hello Tuner 1930. So glad you came across our message board. It is a Christian board, of many of us who were on a previous board called Positive thoughts. Isn't it wonderful how God works so mysteriously as to bring those of his children together. Who would have thought one of our post would have been posted at a Senior Center? I am so glad that it was.
I welcome you to our board, and want you to make yourself at home. Just post whatever God puts on your heart to post. Like so many things, facebook has taken most of our members over, but many of them still visit from time to time and do some posting.
So happy and feel really blessed that God has brought you to our board.
I have been young and now am old ,yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken nor his seed begging bread.Psalm 37:25[pdata]http://z3.invisionfree.com/Loving_our_Friends/index.php?showtopic=105[/pdata]
|Old Raider
Posted: Apr 14 2012, 06:59 PM
Friendly Neighbor
Group: Members
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Member No.: 98
Joined: 10-April 12
Hi Tuner 1930,
Welcome to this board. Yes, we have sustained a "hit" by Face Book.. However, we have managed to hold together.
Don't fear posting. We have the best moderators in the world. Judy-The-Whip does not allow "flaming."
I am a "die-hard" Red Raider fan - but may change to Washington State if Coach Mike Leach wins there.
Posted: Apr 21 2012, 08:04 PM
Group: Members
Posts: 1,526
Member No.: 14
Joined: 27-June 09
most of you know me as gemblm. sorry i haven't been on much posting. but when i did come look, it had been months since people posted, so slowed down coming by.
want to welcome all new members. have fun and look around, there is plenty of interesting forums to choose from. we are all friendly and happy to see new ones come aboard, plus some of the ones from pt.
Posted: Apr 21 2012, 08:26 PM
Group: Members
Posts: 1,526
Member No.: 14
Joined: 27-June 09
ah ha! old raider, i had a feeling you might be RAIDER1. i just read a joke from you and you posted the same way raider1 does. lol. but welcome aboard anyway. sorry i blew your cover. lol.
|Honey Rose
Posted: May 13 2012, 08:32 AM
Comin' Over For Supper
Group: Members
Posts: 206
Member No.: 24
Joined: 28-June 09
Welcome Aboard All New Members and All Friends!!
Hi old friends, Judy, Barbara, Boops, Bob, Ruth Ann, and many more...
Oh, Bob!! Are you moving to Washington State?? I wonder...
Please, send me an email. I have written to you, but I got no reply
from you. Are you upset with me?? I wonder...
I am a loving Christian old friend for sure.
You all know me from Positive Thoughts, which I joined in 2/2005.
God may bless you all, dear friends!!
Have a blessed day!!
Please, reply to me...
Honey Rose.
This post has been edited by Honey Rose on May 13 2012, 08:33 AM
|Old Red Raider
Posted: May 16 2012, 01:17 PM
Comin' Over For Supper
Group: Members
Posts: 312
Member No.: 100
Joined: 15-May 12
Hi Honey Rose,
I have answered all your emails - to my knowledge. I may have missed one. I apologize if I missed one.
I am from Washington State but do NOT plan to move back. My reference was to the firing of Mike Leach - the odd ball but successful football coach at Texas Tech. He was hired by Washington State University - which should make WSU an interesting team to watch next season.


text:
Walsh, who is making her Broadway debut, still admits she finds it hard to believe she's even on the stage, never mind starring in a show that has walked away with the most Tony nominations this year.
Does she dare to imagine, as I confidently do, that 'Once' will carry off the Best Musical award this year?
"From your mouth to God's ears," she laughs. "Tuesday night's performance, just after the nominations were announced, was like opening night all over again.
"The enthusiasm, the energy and the audience were just amazing. We raised the roof that night. We know that we're creating something great on that stage every evening and we hope it translates to the audience."
Walsh plays the ex-girlfriend of the hero Guy, and she's also on stage playing music throughout most of the show. It's a perspective that allows her to see how much the public responds to the story.
"Before the nominations I could see the audiences and I felt sure we would get something from the Tony judges. I wasn't sure what, or how many, but I felt sure something good would come of all that energy and joy," she said.
On the day the awards were announced she actually fell asleep, she confesses. But then a friend phoned and told her quite casually that she needed to check the Tony announcements.
"I couldn't believe it. It was a jaw dropping moment," she said.
Steve Kazee, the gifted 36-year-old actor and singer from Kentucky who has found himself playing the Dublin busker Guy each night on Broadway, has had a tumultuous year in tandem with the show. Kazee's mother passed away as the show was set to open.
"As long as we've known him it was an issue for him," says Walsh. "He was always calling her during rehearsals and the early run. As an ensemble we have all had moments of joy and sadness.
"When he came back from the funeral and he just went out there and did that show, I don't think there's anywhere he'd rather be."
On Monday, the show's producers announced that 'Once' will hit the road for a U.S. tour in the summer of next year, so all of America will soon get to see what all the fuss is about.
'Once' is playing at the Bernard B. Jacobs Theatre on West 45th Street. Visit www.oncemusical.com.


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In Final Minute, Texas Makes Its Case for Top Ranking
Your guest Fixer is Garey G. Ris:
Colt McCoy and the third-ranked Texas Longhorns rallied in the dying moments of Monday's Fiesta Bowl to defeat Ohio State, 24-21. But was it enough for Texas to claim a share of the national championship in the final Associated Press poll? Either Florida or Oklahoma, teams that have one loss apiece, will be the BCS national champion after Thursday's game, but Texas's only loss came to Texas Tech on a last-second touchdown on Nov. 1. The Longhorns defeated the Sooners, 45-35, so a Sooners win Thursday would strengthen Texas's case for a share of the championship.
On Monday, Quan Cosby caught a 26-yard pass from McCoy with 16 seconds remaining as Texas rallied for the victory over the Buckeyes, leaving the Big Ten with only one bowl win in seven tries.
"On a night Texas twice came from behind, on a night it was tested some and pushed around some and frustrated some, the Longhorns left here with what they wanted," Richard Justice writes in the Houston Chronicle. While Justice leaves the talk of co-national champions to others, he sees a strong 2009 season ahead for Texas. "The Longhorns are returning nine of 11 offensive starters and six of 11 defensive starters and might well be the preseason No. 1 team in the country."
Austin American-Statesman columnist Kirk Bohls thinks the Longhorns have a strong case to be No. 1. "Texas came within a single tantalizing second against Texas Tech of matching Utah's perfect season and finishing 13-0," Bohls writes. "Even so, the Longhorns more than proved themselves by beating four Top 25 teams, two bowl winners (Missouri and Rice) and a top-ranked Oklahoma team back in the Stone Age."
Not so fast, CBS Sports' Mike Freeman writes: The Longhorns' narrow escape against Ohio State isn't enough to sway voters. "Congratulations, Texas. You won. You beat a tortoise-slow Ohio State team with its overrated coach who can no longer win a big postseason game," Freeman writes. "Nice work. Now comes the tough love. The Longhorns were victorious and losers at the same time. Yes, both these things are true. They won the game and lost a chance to tell college football that they belong with the big boys this season. They choked away a long shot at history."
For Bob Hunter of the Columbus Dispatch, Monday's Buckeyes loss seemed like a victory. "Remember the 1992 tie with Michigan that Ohio State president E. Gordon Gee called the greatest win in the school's long football history? This was something like that," Hunter writes. "OSU's 24-21 loss to Texas last night in the Fiesta Bowl isn't the new greatest win, but it did feel more like a victory more than so many of the others. No football factory worth its smokestacks will get far if settles for moral victories, but not all moral victories are the same."
* * *
Three years ago, McCoy's predecessor at Texas, Vince Young, was the toast of college football. He led the Longhorns to the national championship with a victory over USC in the Rose Bowl and was named offensive MVP. But he has struggled in the pros, losing his starting job with Tennessee and injuring a knee in his third season. For someone seemingly destined for success, Young hasn't met expectations. In the Los Angeles Times, David Wharton chronicles Young's bumpy ride at Texas and his future in Tennessee.
* * *
Is it ever too early to be groomed for professional sports? Last weekend, the inaugural Football University Youth All-American Bowl attracted the best players from Grades 7 and 8 for a series of games in San Antonio. Rich McGuinness created that event and Football University, invitation-only instructional camps run across the United States. But some people wonder whether this program will hurt high-school coaches' recruiting efforts, Thayer Evans and Pete Thamel write in the New York Times.
* * *
Longwood University is one of 11 Division I schools with no conference to call home. For the Lancers, who moved from Division II only five seasons ago, playing basketball against Virginia, Virginia Tech and Kentucky will have to do, as they won't play in the NCAA tournament until they join a conference, John Feinstein writes in the Washington Post.
* * *
Center Greg Oden needed season-ending surgery on his right knee in September 2007, before Portland's season even started. Then he sprained his foot in the Trail Blazers' first game of this season but has played in 28 games, averaging eight points in 23 minutes. While Oden's progress has been slow, the former No. 1 draft pick is developing into a better player, Johnny Ludden writes at Yahoo Sports.
Fellow 2007 NBA draftee Joakim Noah is in only his second season with the Chicago Bulls, but already he seems to have worn out his welcome. Considering Noah's ho-hum numbers and the distraction he's become — he was one of three Bulls fined recently for breaking team rules — the Chicago Tribune's Rick Morrissey believes it's time to set Noah adrift. "When you're 6 feet 11 inches, wave your arms with exaggerated gestures and have a ponytail that bobs as you run up and down the court, you tend to look busy," Morrissey writes. "He's averaging 4.5 points, 5.9 rebounds and 18.2 minutes per game. The numbers say he's not worth the hassle."
With the 14-20 Bulls something of an eyesore, the Tribune's Melissa Isaacson thinks the up-and-coming Blackhawks are the better team to watch at the United Center these days.
* * *
Cuba isn't the sports powerhouse it was earlier in Fidel Castro's reign. At last year's Beijing Olympics, Cuba finished a disappointing 28th with only two gold medals — none in baseball, boxing or volleyball, its bread-and-butter sports. Fifty years into Cuba's revolution, sports remains competitive but Castro's ailing health, athlete defections and the end of subsidies from the former Soviet Union have hurt its programs, Linda Robertson writes in the Miami Herald.
* * *
Manchester City is stuck in 13th place in the Premier League standings, 23 points behind top-of-the-table Liverpool. Maybe it's not a surprise that manager Mark Hughes is facing pressure from a trio of players — Brazilians Elano, a midfielder, and Jo, a striker; and Israeli defender Tal Ben Haim — and could be sacked soon. But before that happens, Hughes is looking to unload the unhappy soccer players, Daniel Taylor writes in the Guardian.
Meanwhile, forward Carlos Tevez says he's eager to stay with Manchester United if the club commits to a long-term contract, James Ducker writes in the Times of London.
* * *
Joe Pollard III has been to the Masters twice, 10 Super Bowls, the Daytona 500, the World Cup, the Tour de France and numerous other sporting events. Since retiring in 1990, Pollard, now 68, has lived a sports fan's dream, traveling the world to the best sporting events, Kevin Sherrington writes in the Dallas Morning News.
* * *
Carl Pohlad, the Minnesota Twins owner for the past 25 years, died Monday at the age of 93. The Twins, who won two championships during his ownership (1987 and 1991) but were almost contracted out of the major leagues after the 2001 season, are safe now with a new ballpark opening in 2010. Despite his varied business interests, Pohlad was proudest of his Twins, Sid Hartman writes in the Minneapolis Star Tribune.
– Tip of the Fix cap to reader Don Hartline.
Found a good column from the world of sports? Don't keep it to yourself — write to us at firstname.lastname@example.com and we'll consider your find for inclusion in the Daily Fix.


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Mike Lieber
Purdue University
Iowa State
There are many career options available to someone with a background in mathematics. One possible career path is in the field of statistics. In very general terms, statistics involves the analysis of data, often collected through surveys, experiments, or observational studies. As you might imagine, there are many different applications in which statistics and statisticians play an important role. Each involves different kinds of data. For example, statisticians may work in the business world, doing market research to determine whether a particular advertising campaign has been effective. Quality control statisticians often work in manufacturing or engineering environments. Biostatisticians may work for pharmaceutical companies, working on clinical trials to test potentially important new drugs or medical devices. Psychometricians apply statistics to the study of the human mind. Other statisticians work for agricultural companies, designing and analyzing field experiments to study improvements in seeds, fertilizers, or pesticides. Statisticians work in a variety of other applications as well, including chemistry, genetics, computer science, sociology, political science, veterinary medicine, etc. Statistics provides a way for someone with an interest in math to apply that ability to real-world problems in a wide variety of fields. For those who prefer the theoretical side of mathematics, there are many opportunities for educators and researchers in theoretical (or "mathematical") statistics as well.
The many different kinds of jobs filled by statisticians can be thought of as being defined by four things: the subject matter from which the data comes (i.e., medicine, marketing, agriculture, U.S. Census, etc.); the job setting (academic, government, industry, business, hospital, nonprofit organization, etc.); the degree required for the job (BA/BS, MA/MS, PhD); and the nature of the work (data analysis/applied statistics, teaching, consulting, research in theoretical statistics, etc.).
I'm currently employed by the Cleveland Clinic Foundation, a large, nonprofit hospital, as a Masters-level Biostatistician. I am a member of the Department of Biostatistics and Epidemiology, which-in addition to a large number of computing and administrative support personnel-consists of a number of statisticians (Bachelor's level and up) who are grouped into teams according to the medical specialties of the "investigators" (generally doctors working on research projects) they collaborate with. For example, we have a Cancer team, a Cardio team, a Radiology team, etc. I am part of the Radiology team.
The Radiology team is physically located in the Radiology Department of the Clinic, so there are always patients and doctors passing by my office. I like that; it's a constant reminder that the studies I work on have a direct effect on people's lives, and it helps me keep things in perspective. Being around patients who are here for a CT scan, MRI, ultrasound, or X-ray helps me appreciate the little things in life and minimize the everyday frustrations and stresses we face.
The Radiology team consists of myself and my supervisor/colleague, a PhD statistician. Our work primarily involves helping radiologists with the design and analysis of studies. These studies usually involve assessing the diagnostic ability of the imaging techniques (see previous paragraph) that radiologists use to take pictures of the human body and make diagnoses based (in large part) on these pictures. Often, what is of interest is the "accuracy" of a particular imaging technique with respect to a certain diagnosis. If the accuracy of an imaging technique, such as an MRI, for diagnosing a torn rotator cuff is not much better than flipping a coin, then MRI is not very useful in making this particular diagnosis. On the other hand, if a doctor is trying to diagnose a rotator cuff as being torn or not, and he or she can be right 95% of the time using MRI, then it's very useful. Studies I've been involved with have included: assessing the accuracy of a new computer-assisted mammography device; comparing the abilities of CT scan and X-ray to detect plastic toys (like LEGOs) swallowed by young children; and comparing the performances of CT scan and ultrasound at detecting kidney stones in male patients.
The statistical analysis of radiologic studies often involves the concepts of sensitivity (avoiding "false negative" tests) and specificity (avoiding "false positive" tests). Diagnostic accuracy is a function of both sensitivity and specificity. Specialized statistical techniques, such as ROC curves, have been developed to address these types of questions.
I consider myself very fortunate to be doing this kind of work. What I do is interesting, I feel that I'm making a contribution, I enjoy working with doctors doing medical research, and the work is neither stressful nor strenuous. I enjoy my job tremendously-more than I would have thought possible when I was an undergraduate at Purdue, wondering what sort of job I could hope to get with a BS in math/stats. It didn't help to be constantly asked, "A math major, huh? So what can you do with that?" Well, the answer to that is good news-there are jobs of all kinds out there for people with a math background.


text:
Paleo Mexican Meatza!2012-12-20
- Servings : 4
- Prep Time : 0m
- Cook Time : 4m
- Ready In : 0m
Pre heat your oven to 180 degrees celsius.
Line a 30cm square dish with baking paper.
Mix the mince, onion, spices and salt until combined.
Roll the mix into a ball and press evenly into the prepared dish.
Bake the base for ten minutes or until brown.
Now for the fun!
Layer the topping ingredients in the order listed above.
Bake for a further ten minutes.
Remove from the oven and finish with a squeeze of fresh lime.
Cut into squares and YUM YUM YUM!
- for the base: 500 grams grass fed beef mince, one finely diced brown onion, one tsp chilli powder, three tsp paprika, half a tsp salt
- for the top. three quarter of a cup of your fave salsa, one diced avocado, half a cup of shredded bacon, one diced tomato, half a cup of sliced mushrooms, a handful of stuffed olives, half a bunch of chopped coriander, the juice of a lime (to finish)
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Comment (1)
I made this last night with a few changes because of what I had on hand, and it was delicious!!! I added crushed red pepper, chili powder, salt, cumin and coriander to the meat for the crust and topped it with salsa, onion, black olives, orange bell pepper and avocado. It's great to make and have on hand for a quick and easy lunch!
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Definition of Ribbentrop
Joachim von 1893–1946 Ger. diplomat
Rhymes with ribbentrop
agitprop, barbershop, beauty shop, belly flop, blow one's top, body shop, bucket shop, carrottop, channel-hop, coffee shop, countertop, cover crop, curly top, double-crop, double-stop, drag-and-drop, Ethiop, gigaflop, glottal stop, intercrop, island-hop, lollipop, machine shop, malaprop, mom-and-pop, mountaintop, open shop, overtop, photo op, rent-a-cop, set up shop, soda pop, standing crop, suction stop, table-hop, tabletop, techno-pop, teenybop, turboprop, union shop, whistle-stop, window-shop
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text: I have been trying to lose this weight forever, but I really started on the 15th April 2013 - I am now about 6 stone lighter and finding life much easier - but weight loss a wee bit harder. I lost all of my weight with Slim and Save (with a slight dalliance with Exante at the start) and have been maintaining it (within about 5 lbs either way) with 5:2…….but I want to shift this last stone. I don't think I will ever be happy with my weight- too many issues for that - but I can approach a place where I can accept it and keep it down. I am a healthy weight now and about a size 12-14….so that is good, but I want to lose the last stone to give me breathing space and see if I can reach a place where I am happy. So here I am again - this time 6 stone lighter but still struggling I am determined this time to lose the last stone whether it takes 1 week or 8 weeks….so here is my diary to see whether I can do it. Started with a raspberry shake this morning (thank you Slim and Save for bringing this back it is my favourite) and am working up towards lunch Any support welcome


text:
Liverpool Message Board
Correct management selection procedure?
Rodgers ruling himself out got me thinking - are the owners going about this in the right way?
Every man and his dog has been mentioned, and contacted with invitations for an interview.....I mean, its not exactly a shelf-stacking job at Tesco's is it.
They should do their research internally, and then offer the job to whomever they see fit. Can you imagine them asking Guardiola or Mourinho to an interview? - they would be told to p*ss off!Sort: Newest | Oldest | Most Replied Expand all replies
Tony Moorhead Tony Moorhead May 19, 2012 23:32 Flag
FSG should go on record and make a statement of who they wish to speak to about the position and not beat about the bush, too many speculations are going around and nothing definite but hey this is the Internet. It is to be expected these days.
- 1 Reply to Tony Moorhead
LFC_Armchair_Supporter LFC_Armchair_Supporter May 19, 2012 23:35 Flag
Why should they make it known who they want? That would then alert or put people off.. no it should be done behind closed doors then announce it at a press conference who the manager is.
LFC_Armchair_Supporter LFC_Armchair_Supporter May 19, 2012 23:23 Flag
And remind us all how poor Dalglish has done in recent seasons?
Was shit at Newcastle and was sacked, goes to Celtic and was sacked.. oh yea comes back to us as manager and what happened? Can you guess????
Oh yea he was sacked !!
So you're wanting a manager whose been sacked in recent years is that right?
Get in the now.. Dalglish isn't the hero he was back in the 80's..
He's out of touch with the modern game.. hence why he was sacked 3 times !!
dsteer_lfc_68 dsteer_lfc_68 May 18, 2012 21:55 Flag
As far as I know FSG has not published a list of people they have asked to interview, or plan to interview. Rather the press has, as usual, linked every Tom, Dick and Harry, but that does not mean they are on FSG's short list.
All we know for sure is that Wigan confirmed Martinez has been cleared to talk to LFC, and Rodgers has not. Everything else right now is speculation. Some of the speculation may have some truth to them, but as usual the vast majority does not. Just wait, if there is no news soon, and the press can't get a decent link they will link us with Curbishly, then you'll know its all made up.
- 1 Reply to dsteer_lfc_68
I thought curbishly was an excellent manager. You could do far worse. With Sounness, for example.
Maybe you should go for Gary Neville after the euros.
LFC_Armchair_Supporter LFC_Armchair_Supporter May 18, 2012 20:05 Flag
Lol when you put it likem that they're inviting every Tom, Dick & Harry for the job lol..
Why not just have a shortlist of a few candidates who're good mangers and would progress LFc further.. Rather than have an open invite for interview to whomever enquires?
So far AVB has been offered the job and that was 2 wkks ago.. he's mulling it over.. Supposedly..
- 1 Reply to LFC_Armchair_Supporter
A Yahoo! User May 18, 2012 20:31 Flag
That's also the danger of relying on media reports. In the absence of official statements from the club, agents will throw in names to try and market their 'clients' so to speak. I gather the biggest source of so called rumours are the agents. So until the club makes an official statements I will take all speculation as just that, speculation......