text:
إرفنج ضد ليبستدات
Defense Documents
David Irving, Hitler and Holocaust Denial: Electronic Edition, by Richard J. EvansTable of Contents
|<< (vi) Further bending of ...
|< (i) Introduction
(vii) Further misuse of figures: refugees, burials, and excavations.
1. Although the existence of the 'Final Report', he wrote in 1995, 'must inevitably cast doubt' on higher estimates, the report was by nature 'interim', concluded a mere three weeks after the attack.185 This again begs the question asked above. If Irving once again doubted the police's ability to count the dead by 10 March, why had he never previously doubted their ability to count 202,040 dead by 20 March? Yet, Irving went on, there are too many 'unknowns' to allow anyone the luxury of wholeheartedly relying on it:
... I am still reluctant to adopt it without question. March 10, 1945 - the status of the death-roll estimates - was still too early for final figures ... Nobody could, or can, be precise about the final figure. Countless people in Dresden that night vanished from the human race as surely as the man of whom only a shadow remained etched into the wall against which he had been standing.
2. The city had been overcrowded, it had had no shelters and no defences worth talking of, and no expectations were current of raids on such a scale (contradicting the earlier statements by Irving that the Dresden populace had already experienced 172 air raid alerts).186 These factors, coupled with the most violent fire storm in history, 'must inevitably have caused casualties substantially greater than in Hamburg'. Later Irving stated that: 'The key element is probably, over and above the identified death-roll, the vast number of missing people which even the Dresden Police Chief put at thirty-five thousand.'187
3. Irving thus implies that the difference between the 'Final Report's' 25,000 and his minimum of 60,000 is accounted for in the number of unidentified nameless refugees and those still buried or never found and therefore never counted.
4. The night Dresden was hit it was, according to Irving, 'swollen to twice its peace-time population by the [massive] influx of refugees from the East, Allied and Russian prisoners of war, and thousands of forced labourers.'188 Dresden had had a 'permanent' population of 650,000 and 'hundreds of thousands of refugees'. In the 1995 edition they had become 'the million or more refugees who flooded into the city after January 1945'.189 In 1966 the Dresden pre-war population is figured at 630,000, in 1995 at 642,143.190 Elsewhere, while in the 1966 edition the city is 'palpably overcrowded', in the 1995 edition it is 'swollen with one or two million refugees';191 a population 'between 1,200,000 and 1,400,000 citizens' of whom 'hundreds of thousands had no roof over their heads';192 a city which 'twelve hours earlier had sheltered a million people and their property.'193 As the increases which they have undergone between the 1966 and 1995 editions of his book would suggest, these figures are entirely arbitrary. At no point does Irving give a source for any of them. They are figments of his own imagination.
5. Dresden was undoubtedly hit in the early part of 1945 by a wave of refugees fleeing westwards from the advancing Red Army. Schools and pubs, cinemas on the Prager Straße, and even the palace in the Große Garten were given over to accommodating refugees. None of them though were meant to stay longer than three days, and all available manpower was committed to keeping the trains and carts flowing through Dresden. Undoubtedly some became stationary in Dresden, but 500,000 or 700,000? How were so many refugees accommodated? According to Irving, they were not. 'These endless, well organised refugee "treks", each with its own designated "Führer" , had been directed one after another to the designated reception areas - like the Grosse Garten'. In other words they slept under the open skies.194
6. In the Corgi edition of 1966 Irving claimed that the Dresden City authorities had issued a total of 1,250,000 ration cards to the city's population by the time of the raids.195 Here would be official documentary proof of the number of people in Dresden at the time of the attack. The source reads simply 'Ration statistics were provided by Mr. Howard Gee who was given them during a visit to Dresden in June 1963.'196 This is once again typical of the infuriating, perhaps deliberate, poverty of so many of Irving's source-references. Who is Mr Gee? A British statistician, perhaps, or a tourist friend of Irving's? Who had given him the information and in what form? Maybe a typed statement from the Dresden archives? For all the reader might know it could be a conversation overheard on a park bench between two Dresden drunks. Without this information this apparent 'fact' remains nothing more than hearsay. Irving saw fit to allow the 'fact' to disappear from the 1995 edition.197 Why? Because in the meantime the truth about the 1,250,000 ration cards he claimed had been issued to the Dresden population had now become clear to him. Far from being genuine, many if not most of them had been produced by the Allies in order to confuse the population and hamper the local Nazi administration. In 1995, and in the 1985 German edition of his Dresden book, Irving admitted he had made a 'mistake' on this point in 1966, and conceded that to add to the long-term dislocation the RAF dropped 'millions of fake ration cards'. He quoted the 'Final Report' of March 1945, which recorded that such cards had been dropped 'in large masses' [größere Massen].198 Yet this openly admitted mistake did not prevent Irving continuing to claim that Dresden was packed with immense numbers of refugees in early February 1945.
7. As early as 1953, the Dresden civil defence engineer Georg Feydt had struggled to defeat the myth of the city saturated with refugees. He wrote: 'I cannot imagine a more peaceful and calm picture than Dresden on the afternoon of 13 February 1945.'199 Bergander likewise confirmed from his own memory that at no point did Dresden become crammed with refugees. He himself had been called on to help place refugees in accommodation, and apart from those stragglers around the station and the influxes which came with each train, he remembered most being somehow quartered.200 Bergander then proceeded to calculate that the number of refugees in Dresden could sensibly be put at 200,000; 9,000 in the stations (through which the majority came), 6,000 who had trekked with carts spread out over the whole of Dresden, and 85,000 in emergency accommodation. He doubled the number to include all those who might have somehow found their own lodgings that night. Bergander admitted that this was also a guess, but at least a sensible one arrived at through due process. To have accommodated some half a million refugees would have required one of two measures, neither of which took place: either forced billeting in private homes on a massive scale, or huge temporary camps.201
8. The Dresden historian Reichert went one step further. He likewise quoted witnesses who attested that no refugees were billeted in Dresden houses and that no billeting took place in the parks or squares. He then pointed out that the Dresden population could of course not be expected to have been at its pre-war level because of the numbers of men away on active service. Not 630,000, but 567,000 were resident in the city at the time. To that he added 100,000 refugees.202 This was already a very considerable number in view of the city's overall population; but nowhere near the 'one or two million' suggested by Irving in 1995.
9. How many of these are likely to have been killed? The total figure of just over '18,000' given by the 'Final Report' of course included refugees as well as local citizens. Irving, as we have seen, implied that many thousands of those killed were officially only listed as 'missing' and so were excluded from the official death roll. Section E of the 'Final Report' headed 'loss of life' listed under the difficulties in identifying the number of dead: 'migration of large parts of the population, transport of a large part of the wounded out of the city.'203 The 'Final Report' put the 'missing' figure known to the register of missing persons and the city administration at 35,000, but with the proviso that 'Exact ascertainment of the number of killed only possible when it becomes established through the register of missing persons and the police offices of registration how many people have left Dresden.'204 10,000 of those missing were later found to be alive.205
10. Given the chaotic situation of the last weeks of Hitler's Germany, with millions of refugees streaming through Europe many more might have escaped official attention. Irving himself obliquely concedes that a mass exodus took place from Dresden after the bombing raid. He quoted a Swedish newspaper of 18 February that 'Dresden had been so destroyed that the order for its final evacuation had been given.' In the same paragraph he quoted a refugee: 'None of the neighbouring towns could send help [after the attack] because all the approaches to Dresden were crowded with refugee columns, peasant carts, pushcarts and army vehicles.'206 Thus even on Irving's own evidence, the 'missing' must have included many thousands who had left the city immediately after the raids were over. This was a complicating factor that Dr. Hans Sperling of the Federal Office for Statistics had already brought to Irving's attention in 1962.207 Even if a considerable number of those registered as missing had in fact been killed in the raids, it still remains the case that they would have added no more than a few thousand to the overall death-roll, not the numbers needed by Irving to make up the shortfall between the 'Final Report' figure of 18,000 and his own estimate of 100,000 or even 250,000. As it is, it is now clear that the Dresden authorities took great pains to count all the dead, identified and unidentified.
11. Conclusive evidence is supplied by burial figures. According to Irving 'history relates that the last mortal remains of 28,746 air the raids' victims found their last resting place on the Heidefriedhof cemetery.'208 The figure of 28,746 in the Heidefriedhof comes from the cemetery's head gardener Zeppenfeld, who is quoted by Seydewitz as haven giving this total from the head-count of those buried and the ashes of 9,000 bodies burnt on the Altmarkt.209 In fact, as we know, 6,865 people were burnt on the Altmarkt. Bodies were also buried at the Johannisfriedhof cemetary. Weidauer quotes the director of administration that 3,660 victims of the attack were buried there.210 In 1993, new official material was found from the Dresden burial offices [Marschall- und Bestattungsamt] confirming the exact number of those buried.211 Quite contrary to Irving's image of chaotic and botched mass-burials,212 the counting of the dead was conscientiously carried out, with the figures being reported regularly to the city administration. Exactly 17,295 bodies had been buried in the Heidefriedhof cemetary, including the ashes of the 6,865 people burnt on the Altmarkt. In addition to the 3,462 burials in the Johannisfriedhof cemetary, 514 were buried in the Neue Annenfriedhof cemetary. This gives a total of 21,271 registered burials.213 Head gardener Zeppenfeld's figure of 28,746 thus overestimated the true number by more than 7,000, unsurprising perhaps, given the fact that it lacked any written authentication and was arrived at only in a rough and ready way. The official figures are far more likely to be closer to the truth.
12. Another possible point of statistical confusion, according to Irving, lay in the fact that many people searched for missing relatives to 'spare them the indignity of mass burial in a common grave' or even resorted to digging up their next of kin already buried in mass graves.214 Even if one were to concede the point, and there are witnesses quoted elsewhere as rescuing bodies from the rubble themselves, it seems highly unlikely that people broke open sealed mass graves in the hope of finding their relatives amongst the number buried there. Moreover, this in no way precluded the victims from appearing on one of the official lists. On the contrary, people who had by then of course identified their relatives would have been bound to have reported their death to the authorities, or would Irving have us believe that thousands were secretly buried on unconsecrated grounds and their deaths for some strange reason kept secret from the authorities? Reichert adds that the burials in the smaller graveyards were scrupulously recorded and did not exceed 2,000.215 The total number of burials, therefore, approximates well to the total figure of deaths in the raid already known from other sources such as the 'Final Report', namely 21,000 compared to 18,000.
13. Irving's last refuge was to claim that too much of Dresden remained unexcavated to say how many bodies might still be buried.216 More, of course, did lie hidden beneath the rubble and were not discovered until later. Weidauer points out that from 8 May 1945 until 1966, exactly 1,858 bodies had been dug from the ruins of Dresden. Only in four instances had it been impossible to establish the number of victims in one place. The total for the four could not have been higher than a hundred.217 He likewise makes clear that by all accounts the majority of victims had died through suffocation and that only in a small number of cases were bodies so mutilated or burnt that the exact number could not be ascertained. Reichert quotes a slightly smaller figure for between October 1945 and late 1957 of 1,557 bodies.218 Irving, although he must have been aware of Weidauer's figures, still wrote in 1995 of an immediate post-war Dresden 'where thousands of victims were still being recovered each week from the ruins'. He argued that too little of Dresden had been excavated to determine how many bodies lay undiscovered.219 Yet he himself had written in 1963 that 'most of the bomb sites in Dresden's Inner City have been cleared anyway.'220 Reichert adds (1994) that not a single body had been found since 1990, despite heavy building and despite archaeological excavations on the Altmarkt and around the Taschenberg Palace.221
14. When Reichert added the three sums together cited above he came to the inescapable conclusion that the final number of deaths for the raids of February 13/14 and April 17 was 25,000, corresponding to the real TB 47's prediction of the same number, and all of it based on documentary evidence.
15. How reliable, finally, are these official figures? Widely accepted for many years, the fact that the Communist authorities in post-war Dresden were among those who treated the figure of 35,000 as accurate is an irrelevancy. What interest did the Communists have in playing down the numbers killed? Even if they had, the figure of 25,000 - 35,000 comes not from the Communists but, as we have seen, from the Nazi authorities themselves.
185. Focal Point, edn., p. 244.
186. Corgi, edn., 1966, p. 187; Focal Point, p. 189.
187. Focal Point, edn., pp. 243 and 244.
188. Corgi edn., 1966, vii; Corgi edn., 1971, p. 7; 'massive' dropped from Focal Point, ix.
189. Corgi edn., 1966, p. 78; Focal Point edn., p. 78; Corgi edn., 1966, p. 81; Focal Point edn., p. 81.
190. Corgi edn., 1966, p. 83; Focal Point, edn., p. 82.
191. Corgi edn., 1966, p. 83; Focal Point, edn., p. 82.
192. Corgi edn., 1966, p. 106; Focal Point, edn., p. 104.
193. Focal Point, edn., p. 171; Corgi edn., 1966, p. 173.
194. Focal Point, edn., p. 188; Corgi edn., 1966, p. 185.
195. Corgi edn., 1966, p. 106.
196. Corgi edn., 1966, p. 272.
197. Focal Point, p. 104.
198. Focal Point, p. 176 and fn. 12, p. 290; Heyne 1985, appendix 3, p. 277.
199. Feydt, quoted in Bergander, p. 249.
200. Bergander, p. 250.
201. Bergander, pp. 250-3.
202. Reichert, p. 55. Förster also gives the same figure, but allows for a number of evacuees from the Rhineland, p. 309.
203. Heyne 1985, p. 289.
204. Heyne edn., 1985, p. 290.
205. Reichert, p. 58.
206. Focal Point, edn., p. 260.
207. DJ 10, Hans Sperling to Irving, 25 April 1962.
208. Corgi edn., 1966, p. 213, Focal Point, p. 224
209. Bergander, pp. 267-8.
210. Weidauer, p. 119.
211. Stadtarchiv Dresden, Marshall und Bestattungsamt, Nachtrag 1 and 5.
212. Corgi 1966, pp. 214-5; Focal Point, pp. 225-6.
213. Reichert, p. 58.
214. Corgi 1966, pp. 216; Focal Point, pp. 227-8.
215. Reichert, p. 58.
216. Focal Point edn., p. xiii.
217. Weidauer, p. 120.
218. Reichert, p. 58.
219. Focal Point, edn., pp. 272 and xiii.
220. Irving to Crossman, 26 May 1963, PRO, FO 371/169329. Theo Miller had contacted Irving in 1965 as he had been involved in the clearance work following the attack, including recovering corpses. He wrote to Irving that by mid-March 1945 'our task was almost completed' and that the clearing work had uncovered 30,000 corpses. See DJ 10, Theo Miller to Irving, 25 February 1965.
221. Reichert, p. 61.
|<< (vi) Further bending of ...
|< (i) Introduction


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1497: Economic evidence for investing in the environment
This paper provides a brief overview of the Natural England Research Report NERR033 'Microeconomic Evidence for the Benefits of Investment in the Environment – review'. Future papers will summarise different sections in more detail.
Year of Publication2012
There are many examples where green infrastructure offers much better value for public investment than the alternative, for example natural water filtration and natural flood defence. Natural climate control is much cheaper than the air-conditioning (or heating) it replaces. Natural air filtering is likely to be efficient compared to technical alternatives, particularly as trees provide so many other benefits. Access to greenspace and the promotion of active travel are extremely cost-effective ways to address Mental and physical ill-health.
This item is categorised as follows
- Subject Collection > Environmental impact > Landscape
- Subject Collection > Tourism & recreation > Outdoor recreation
- Subject Collection > Environmental impact > Wastes management & pollution control
- Subject Collection > Environmental impact > Wildlife & biodiversity
- Subject Collection > Tourism & recreation > Access to the countryside
- Subject Collection > Tourism & recreation
- Subject Collection > Environmental impact > Managing land for environmental benefit
- Subject Collection > Rural policy & development > Economic development
Additional keywords/tags
RuSource Briefings is a free rural information service for anyone working in the countrysideWebsite
What Next...?
- Use the search box above to find similar items
- More on Access to the countryside
- View the full record
This is a brief summary of an item in the OpenFields Library. This free online library contains items of interest to practitioners and researchers in the agricultural and landbased industries.

subset: commoncrawl


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RICHMOND -- A personal finance website released a list Monday ranking the best markets for first-time homebuyers, and some Bay Area cities found themselves at or near the bottom of the list.
Of the 300 largest U.S. cities measured by WalletHub.com, Richmond came in dead last, Oakland clocked in at 295th, and Berkeley and Vallejo were ranked at 282 and 283, respectively.
In its report, WalletHub said it used 17 key metrics, including real estate taxes, crime, median home prices in comparison with median income adjusted for cost of living, and average home-energy costs.
"It's how the math turns out," WalletHub financial writer Richie Bernardo said of the low rankings of Richmond and Oakland. "In those cities, you have home values that are too high for the income of the average resident, high crime rates and relatively small houses, which are all challenges to first-time homebuyers."
Bernardo said Oakland ranked slightly higher than Richmond in part because of better recreation scores and job growth numbers; both cities joined Vallejo and Berkeley in enjoying low home-energy costs thanks to the mild Bay Area weather.
Cities in Oklahoma, Texas and Colorado dominated the top 10, thanks to growing economies, low-but-rising housing prices and good community environment scores.
"The top cities generally share excellent affordability scores," Bernardo said.
Bernardo said Richmond's adjusted household median income of $36,417 and median housing price of about $264,000 was among the worst imbalances of cities studied.
Berkeley, which has seen real estate values soar, owed its poor ranking mostly to low affordability scores. Vallejo was hurt by low community environment measurements, which take crime and recreation into account.
The source data for the report came mostly from the U.S. Census, the FBI and the Council for Community and Economic Research.
Some local real estate agents contacted Monday said the report failed to take into account other metrics that help make Richmond and Oakland good long-term investments for homebuyers.
"The report is contrary to what I'm seeing because the market has been robust, as an influx of buyers priced out of San Francisco and other areas has poured in," said Jeffrey Wright, managing broker of Wright Realtors in El Cerrito. "Oakland, especially, has become a culinary mecca and a dynamic cultural community that's attracted a wave of buyers who wouldn't have considered living there just a few years ago."
"I'm a little surprised at the ranking," said Steve Kendall of Security Pacific Real Estate in Richmond. "The prices are very good in comparison to the surrounding areas, and you have a waterfront community with access to transportation."
Kendall said Richmond is a large city with significant differences among neighborhoods -- something not taken into account by the new survey -- but continues to be dogged by negative media attention and perception.
"People often say they hear nothing but bad things about Richmond but then are surprised at all the good things going on once they look closer," Kendall said. "It's a good long-term investment to buy here."
To review the report, go to wallethub.com/edu.
Contact Robert Rogers at 510-262-2726. Follow him at Twitter.com/sfbaynewsrogers.


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Princeton, NJ, April 11, 2013–Princeton Theological Seminary will present a handbell
concert "Sounds of America" for the Seminary and Princeton communities on Saturday,
April 20, 2013, at 3:00 p.m. in Miller Chapel on the Seminary's main campus. It
will include sacred and secular music from the past and present American
tradition. The concert, under the direction of Rachel Barker, features the
Princeton Ringers, made up of Princeton Seminary and Princeton University
students, spouses, staff, alumni/ae, and friends.
Robert and William Cor of Aldbourne, Wiltshire, England, developed the first
tuned handbells between 1696 and 1724. Originally used by change ringers (who
rang a set of tuned bells in a series of mathematical patterns called
"changes") to rehearse outside their towers, the handbell sets had the same
number of bells as did the towers (usually six to twelve handbells tuned to a
diatonic scale).
Shurcliff brought the first handbells from England to the United States in
1902. She was presented a set of ten handbells in London by Arthur Hughes, the
general manager of the Whitechapel Bell Foundry, after completing two separate
two-and-one-half-hour change ringing peals in one day.
The concert is free and open to the public. For more information, please contact the Chapel Office at 609.497.7890. Click here for directions to the Seminary.
Theological Seminary was founded in 1812, the first seminary established by the
General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church. It is the largest Presbyterian
Seminary in the country, with more than 500 students in six graduate degree
© Princeton Theological Seminary P.O. Box 821, 64 Mercer Street, Princeton, NJ 08542-0803, 609.921.8300 An Institution of the Presbyterian Church (USA)PTS Calendars | A to Z Index | Information Technology | Trustees Website
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There have been strange sounds coming from the South Elementary Music Room when the third grade is in class. They have been busy rehearsing for their concert "The Wackadoo Zoo" by Jill Gallina.. The show is Monday, October 28 at 6:30 p.m. in the school's cafetorium.
The audience will be welcomed by Sam Melcher and Michael Kelly and Brady Reynolds will lead us to the zoo. The narrators for the evening are Ruby Dawson, Cyera Winkler, Cole Bortree, Rayvin Gierwatowski and Kyle Van Manen.
The children sound very confused. Big, powerful tigers, played by Ethan Moses, Autumn Palyo, Kenneth Hunter and Dakota Brandt, sheepishly say "Meow." Lions, the King of the Jungle, have forgotten how to roar. Instead, they sound like roosters. These "Kings" are Alyssa Glatz, Trinity Kline, Brittney Barclay, Zachary DeConti, Nakai Johnson and John Stackhouse. The strange sounds continue and so very intelligent professors come to the rescue – or so they think. The linguistic, erudite scholars are Molly Dickerman, Danielle Holzapfel, Emma Wilson, Kayla Sheridan, Ashley Palyo and Brendan Fossetta. Jacqueline Weber, Carolyn Manassy and Alexis Borer are silly monkeys and Alivea Miller, Jase Kelly and Melissa Csikortos are playful elephants. Fiona Roberts, Sam Melcher, Katrina Hadorn, Francesca Toppi and Nathan Kellogg have long, sore throats from trying to change their ways as giraffes. Grace Merop, Brianne Falco, Aidan Fitzgerald and Darius Forman are confused zebras.
The songs, written by Jill Gallina, that the children will sing are: "The Strangest Zoo You Ever Knew," "A Smile Can Go a Long, Long Way," "Horrible Sounds," "Practice Makes Perfect," "Go Home, Professor" and "Different Means Special."
The wacky concert will come to a close with the popular song by Richard M. Sherman and Robert B. Sherman "Lots In Common" from Charlotte's Web.
The animal and stage decorations are the work of Patti Kellogg, Sue Frank, Kathleen Seagraves and Barb Otting. Mr. Mark Kirsten, principal and Jean M. Shields, music teacher, invite the community to this fun, wacky concert.
Location, ST | website.com


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|Adulto, Santiago Torres del Limitar 1845
|continued... Santiago Torres burial record
Santiago Torres received the Blessed Sacrament of Penance and was buried "in the year of our Lord" 1845 on the 4th day of the month of March, according to records of the parish of San Miguel church in Socorro, New Mexico.
Thanks to priest Jose Vicente Chavez, the historical record is clearly written … and thanks to luck, the pages were not torn or stained. This is how Santiago Torres' final record appears from the ledger that can be found on microfilm FHL16996 -- Pages 7 and 8 from Burial Book 1844-1853.
Although the record doesn't say so, Santiago was a viudo, a widower. Barbara Ortiz died 3 years earlier in the community of La Parida. It's likely that Santiago moved from Parida to Lemitar after his wife's death and lived at or near homes of his daughters, Isabel Baca and Tomasa Padilla, who at the time were established in Lemitar with their husbands and children.


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Our Gold Coast resorts are just minutes from Broadbeach's patrolled beach and walking distance from two major shopping centres, Pacific Fair and the Broadbeach Mall. BreakFree Diamond Beach is a real beach retreat with its laid back ambience and tropical gardens. Its located 100m from the beach and is close to Jupiters Casino.
BreakFree Diamond Beach is a popular low rise holiday resort on the south side of Broadbeach on the Gold Coast. Family friendly and ideally located, you will be within walking distance of a surf lifesaver patrolled beach, all the restaurants, bars and shopping at central Broadbeach, Pacific Fair and the Casino.
Situated on Victoria Park in the chic Broadbeach area, Mantra Broadbeach on the Park offers guests comfort and style in a premium location. Only a short walk away there is always something to do with Jupiters Casino directly across the road as well as the Gold Coast Convention Centre, making Mantra Broadbeach on the Park the ideal accommodation for conference delegates. One block from the hotel, guests will find white sands and sparkling blue waters or you can dine alfresco at one of the many restaurant, bars and cafes that line the Broadbeach strip.
Experience premium Broadbeach accommodation with Mantra Sierra Grand resort. Only a short walk from your Sierra Grand resort apartment there is always something to do, whether it be shopping at Pacific Fair and Broadbeach Mall, taking in a stage show at the Casino, or experiencing great food at one of the many alfresco restaurants that line nearby Surf Parade. Broadbeach is fast becoming the cultural hub of the Gold Coast and we invite you to experience it with Mantra Sierra Grand.
Soak up the cutting-edge sophistication of the new cosmopolitan Peppers Broadbeach, boasting everything hi-tech and high-end for the ultimate in comfort and convenience. Soaring high above its city skyline, with panoramic views to the Pacific Ocean and Gold Coast hinterland, Peppers Broadbeach redefines the essence of luxury living with a fusion of city sophistication and coastal relaxation.


text:
hyzerman16234 wrote:I'm installing it tomorrow. Playable by early next week! It's 352' straight down the row behind the A pin.
jnecessary wrote:I need to be at Wildcat this weekend!
GDL17921 wrote:Chuck, drunken dubs Monday, new pin, give me one more reason to come up this weekend!
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text:
An investigation is being launched into alleged voting irregularities in Sumter County.
Circuit Clerk Edmond Bell has requested the district attorney investigate what he says is mainly the exploitation of elderly voters.
The alleged voting irregularities involve hundreds of absentee ballots.
"I noticed that a lot of people are not adhering to what it means to vote absentee," said Bell.
In some cases, Bell says one person requested absentee ballots for about 100 voters. After all the forms were filled out, that same person who requested the applications from his office also mailed them back.
"It's a means of controlling five or six votes, or in some cases, 15 to 20 votes," Bell said. "One person!"
The circuit clerk says 80% of the absentee voting applications are requested by people who do not live in the house with the absentee voter who will receive the ballot. In fact, he says in most cases these individuals are not even in the voter's immediate family.
Bell says another problem is that many absentee voters have committed crimes, and likely, without knowing it. He says this is often because they fail to read the back of the absentee voting application.
In these cases, he says some absentee voters have stated that they will be out of the county on election day.
"Actually, they'll come into the office and the courthouse on election day," said Bell.
At Bell's request, within coming weeks, the district attorney's office has agreed to come to Sumter County to look into the matter. For some violators, this could lead to jail time.
"It's a very good possibility that could happen based on the information we have," Bell said.
Bell says there are about eight legal reasons that a person is allowed to vote absentee. They include: the voter being out of the county on election day, being in the military, their work schedule conflicts, or they are ill.


text:
I'm having trouble getting the maximum bandwidth to work. The server appears to ignore the limit in Transcoding Settings > Common transode settings > maximum bandwidth box, based on the "current bitrate" meter on the status page and on stuttering on the console. I've tried closing and reopening the server (after saving) and searching for it again on the PS3, but no luck.
Sorry if this is super simple and obvious, but I can't seem to figure it out.


text:
Was: $
Lowest Price Guarantee
The Bauer Vapor APX2 Tapered Composite Hockey Blade is the top of the line Vapor blade featuring many of the technologies seen in the APX2 stick. The TeXtreme® carbon fiber is the checkers seen throughout the blade which is 20% lighter than traditional carbon. The all new Aero-Sense blade core turns back the hands of time to replicate and improve on one of the best blades to date, the X:60. Unlike the original dual-density APX, this new blade core is single density to provide players with unbelievable puck feel and pop.
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- Shaft Compatibility: Tapered shafts
- Weight: 119 grams (Based on a SR PM9)
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The Bauer Vapor 1X Tapered Composite Hockey Blade is the premier offering in the Vapor line from Bauer. This 1X replacement blade utilizes Bauer's premier and exclusive TeXtreme™ carbon fiber. TeXtreme™ is not only 20% lighter than traditional carbon but it's also stronger too. Internally, the Vapor 1X blade features an Aero-Foam core that offers excellent puck feel, pop and durability.Curves: 3


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OAKLAND -- At 7:30 p.m. Friday, hands shot up in the air and quiet replaced the din of First Friday around a stage on Telegraph Avenue near 25th Street.
It was one of two moments of silence held to commemorate the death of Kiante Campbell, an 18-year-old Oakland high school student shot and killed during the February First Fridays festival. Three others were wounded by gunfire that erupted near the heart of the street fest that until Friday stretched along Telegraph from the Fox Theater to 27th Street.
"If you love Oakland, throw your peace signs up," Councilwoman Lynette Gibson McElhaney said from a stage Friday night.
She called First Fridays a resistance movement and said the shooting was tragic. "But tragic things are happening every day," she said. "We remember Kiante and everyone who has been lost."
The event will grow again, said Oaklander Charles Kelly. But sometimes, he said, "You need to hit the reset button."
That is what the organizers and the city of Oakland tried to do by having the street fest begin at West Grand Avenue and end at 27th Street, closer to the boundary that existed before the expansion about a year ago.
First Fridays regularly draws as many as 20,000 people from around the Bay Area who come for the eclectic atmosphere and crowd into bars, restaurants and galleries.
The festival's numbers stretched the ability of the organizers, Oakland First Fridays, and the city to control the crowds.
Friday was supposed to be smaller, shorter and more subdued. Besides cutting the route in half, open bottle laws were supposed to be strictly enforced, and the event was pushed up an hour, to 9 p.m.
The open container crackdown did not prevent one man in a gallery from occasionally pulling out a pint from his back pocket for a swig of bourbon. And a circle of friends sipped from tall cans of Colt 45 and Pabst Blue Ribbon about 10 feet from where police stood blocking off a side street.
Jewelry vendor Heather Holton, 23, an Oakland resident who has been coming to First Fridays since its inception, said she felt the crowd was significantly smaller compared to last month.
"It was like a rock concert (last month), definitely reaching the boiling point of First Fridays," she said. "But this month everyone seems to really be taking time to appreciate the Art Murmer section."
Friday marked the first time the event has been so organized, said Mayor Jean Quan, standing at the corner of Telegraph and West Grand.
"It's so organized, we have a theme," she added, referring to the Respect our City slogan printed on the emerald green T-shirt she wore and repeated on fliers posted on storefront windows along Telegraph. "We want to make sure we have a safe First Friday," she said. "We're going to have a good time tonight."
A nearby resident stopped to say he was "delighted" to see Quan, adding that First Fridays had been getting "out of hand" for a while.
"I'm here every First Friday," Quan replied.
A combined force of 62 police officers patrolled Telegraph and blocked the entrances to streets for several blocks past West Grand. Another 32 private security guards also made themselves visible.
A crowd of about 20 marched down Telegraph shortly before 9 p.m. chanting obscenities aimed at police. However, they seemed to blend into the crowds of revelers who danced to drummers and DJs dispersed along the route.
"The spirit's still here," Karl Stanley said. "It's not the number of people. It's the quality. "There's no way they're going to stop First Friday."
San Francisco resident Aaron Kelly, 29, was a first-time visitor to First Fridays. He heard about last month's shooting but wasn't deterred from coming out Friday night.
"I'm not gonna let that stop me," he said, "because people could die by getting hit by a car crossing the street."
Staff writer Serena Valdez contributed to this story.


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Major Research Areas
Upstate boasts basic and clinical researchers with diverse expertise in neuroscience, molecular genetics, genomics, epigenetics, structural biology, infectious disease, and behavior disorders. This allows students the opportunity to perform research in a wide range of research areas and easily collaborate when new expertise is needed.
Wenyi Feng, PhD
Current Appointments
- Assistant Professor of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology
Hospital Campus
- Downtown
Research Programs and Affiliations
- Biochemistry and Molecular Biology
- Biomedical Sciences Program
Web Resources
Education & Fellowships
- Postdoctoral Fellow: University of Washington, Seattle, WA, 2010
- PhD: University of Miami School of Medicine, 2002
Research Interests
- Chromosomal DNA replication origins (location, timing and regulation), replication fork integrity and checkpoint regulation, genomic instability and chromosome fragility in both the yeast and human genome
Web Resources
Link to PubMed (Opens new window. Close the PubMed window to return to this page.)
How do defects in DNA replication lead to genomic instability? This question bears on our understanding of a wide spectrum of human diseases, including chromosome fragility, cancer, neurodegeneration, and even autoimmune disorders. Eukaryotic chromosomal DNA replication is a process that is at once robust and vulnerable. It is accurate and able to withstand environmental stress, such as DNA damage and replication impediments, through a highly evolved checkpoint mechanism. Yet the very act of replication, if executed in an untimely or uncoordinated fashion, can give rise to genomic instability.
My laboratory (https://googledrive.com/host/0B4N1p0Oxu_sIaERkV1d4dnlLRlk/index.html) is interested in understanding the mechanisms of genomic instability induced by DNA replication stress. We are particularly interested in how cells protect the replication forks (junctions of replicated and unreplicated DNA) during replication stress by hydroxyurea (a drug that lowers cellular pools of deoxyribonucleotides). Unprotected replication forks due to mutations in the replication checkpoint genes can lead to single-stranded DNA (ssDNA) gaps in the genome and chromosome breakage. Yet the mechanisms through which these detriments of the genome occur are not well understood. We use the baker's yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae as a model organism to study the mechanisms of the maintenance of replication fork integrity. We also apply the genomic mapping of ssDNA and chromosome breakage methods to reveal important landmarks such as origins of replication and chromosome fragile sites in the human genome.
The specific research projects in my laboratory are focused on addressing the following questions:
- What are the mechanisms of ssDNA production and chromosome fragility during replication stress?
- What structural changes accompany the destabilization of replication forks under replication stress?
- What genomic rearrangements occur in rare survivors of checkpoint mutants after replication stress?
- Where are the origins of replication in the human genome and are there differences in the selection and usage of origins in different cell types and at different developmental stages?
- Where are the chromosome fragile sites in the human genome and how do they relate to origin locations?
1. Peng J, M. K. Raghuraman, Feng W. (2014) Analysis of ssDNA gaps and DSBs in genetically unstable yeast cultures. Methods Mol Biol. 1170:501-15.
2. Peng J, M. K. Raghuraman, Feng W. (2014) Analysis of replication timing using synchronized budding yeast cultures. Methods Mol Biol. 1170:477-99.
3. McCulley A, Haarer B, Viggiano S, Karchin J, Feng W. (2014) Chemical suppression of defects in mitotic spindle assembly, redox control, and sterol biosynthesis by hydroxyurea. G3. 4(1):39-48.
4. Feng W, Di Rienzi S, Raghuraman M K, Brewer B J. (2011) Replication stress-induced chromosome breakage is correlated with replication fork progression and is preceded by single-stranded DNA formation. G3. 1(5):327-35.
5. Feng W, Bachant J, Collingwood D, Raghuraman M K, Brewer B J. (2009) Centromere replication timing determines different forms of genomic instabilit in Saccharomyces cerevisiae checkpoint mutants during replication stress. Genetics. 183(4):1249-60.
6. Feng W, Raghuraman M K, Brewer B J. (2007) Mapping yeast origins of replication via single-stranded DNA detection. Methods. 41(2):151-7.
7. Feng W, Collingwood D, Boeck M E, Fox L, Alvino G, Fangman W L, Raghuraman M K, Brewer B J. (2006) Genomic mapping of single-stranded DNA in hydroxyurea-challenged yeasts identifies origins of replication. Nature Cell Biol. 8(2):148-55.
8. Lucas I, Feng W. (2003) The essence of replication timing: determinants and significance. Cell Cycle. 2(6):560-3. Review.
9. Feng W, Rodriguez-Menocal L, Tolun G, D'Urso G. (2003) Schizosacchromyces pombe Dpb2 binds to origin DNA early in S phase and is required for chromosomal DNA replication. Mol Biol Cell. 4(8):3427-36.
10. Feng W, D'Urso G. (2001) Schizosaccharomyces pombe cells lacking the amino-terminal catalytic domains of DNA polymerase epsilon are viable but require the DNA damage checkpoint control. Mol Cell Biol. 21(14):4495-504.


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Harrison body slamming Chad, 2nd highlight.....
So close, but yet so far. Geez, you guys suck..
The first 20 seconds says it all.
Good stuff there Heel thanks for posting!
ours is not to wonder why just invert and multiply...
Love one of the comments on the you tube discussions of this videoOriginally Posted by SteelHeel
Ben does quite well when dealing with your defense, thank you very much.As far as Carson goes... To say he is over rated is ridiculous. Lets see what Ben would do with our defense. Lets see what anyone would do with our defense. If you look at stats.. No team or Qb can do well. Also, look at Carson's stats.
Ah huh. Your overall record Vs The Black N. Gold these past 40 yrs sure does indicate ownership all right. So does the 7 straight at PBS. Bungles=Delusional!Originally Posted by Bengaltime


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|36 lbs.
|AC Voltage:
|Spindle Size:
|Wheel Diameter:
|8 in.
|Wheel Grits:
|36 / 60
|Wheel Width:
|1 in.
Do you have questions about this product?
Get answers from real customers and in-house experts with AnswerBox.
Q:We have a DS200 and are wondering if there is a belt-sander attachment available for this grinder
1 answer
A:No, Metabo does not offer a belt sander attachment for this item.
Q:Will it take a wire wheel land if it does where could I buy the wheel that will not cause vibration ??
1 answer
A:This grinder will accept a wire wheel.What you use is determined by what application.Knotted wire brushes and crimped wire brushes can be used,and it would have to be 8" wheel with a 1" arbor.
Q:I see two different answers for the arbor size that Ken has answered. So, Ken size is the arbor today?
1 answer
A:According to the manufacturer the arbor size if 1-1/4".
Q:You were asked this question on the date below and only answered what the arbor size was. I have been looking and researching this product for a while and am strongly leaning on purchasing it however I am concerned about the compatibility of replacement wheels for the grinder. Great reviews on amazon - but one review stated that the customer had to have a machine shop make a 2.75" by .320" spacers out of solid stock with a 1.25" hole for the arbor. It's obvious why but please identify this to your consumers and offer solutions for replacement wheels etc. for the product. : What is the arbor size? Will it take disks with a 5/8" bore?
2 answers
A:The arbor size is 1-1/4". Doesn't state the whether it will accept discs with a 5/8" bore.
A:According to the manufacturer, the arbor size is 1 inch.
Q:What is the arbor size? Will it take disks with a 5/8" bore?
1 answer
A:The arbor size is 1-1/4".
Q:does it come assembled ? how far apart are the pre-drilled mounting holes ? THX Jeff
1 answer
A:This does come assembled except for the eye shields. They need to be bolted on.
Metabo One Year Standard Warranty - New & Reconditioned Tools
Metabo power tools have been carefully tested and inspected before shipment and are warranted to be free from any defects in materials and workmanship for a period of 12 months from user's original date of purchase for tools purchased after April 1, 2004. If repair is required, return complete tool, shipping prepaid, with proof of purchase and, if claiming extended warranty, XXL® confirmation to Metabo's nearest authorized service station. If inspection shows defective material or workmanship, Metabo will repair or replace (at Metabo's option) the tool without charge during the warranty period. This warranty does not apply to normal wear and tear. It does not cover any damages caused by careless or unsafe handling, alteration, accidents, misuse or repair attempted or made by personnel other than Metabo Corporation or its authorized service stations. This warranty also excludes chucks and accessories supplied by Metabo Corporation. This warranty applies in lieu of any other warranties, expressed or implied, and variations of its terms are not authorized.
The foregoing obligation is Metabo's sole liability under this or any implied warranty, and under no circumstances shall Metabo be liable for any incidental or consequential damages. Some states do not allow limitations on how long implied warranty lasts or the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to you.
This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may also have other legal rights which vary from state to state.
XXL® - The Metabo 3 Year Warranty - New Tools Only
Even more peace of mind.
Metabo products are designed for a long service life, but to give you additional peace of mind for your investment, Metabo is now offering the XXL® warranty. After registration, your normal warranty is simply extended to 3 years from the date of purchase.
You can only benefit from the XXL® warranty when you register online here within four weeks after the original date of purchase. It can also be applied to any machine that was purchased since April 1, 2004.


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Country's mad, Thanksgiving sales show
Our materialistic society has officially gone too far with stores beginning their Black Friday sales on Thanksgiving Day!
You people who are so desperate to get the "early bird" deals that you will go to stores on Thursday are pathetic! And it's unconscionable for stores to require workers to come to work on a national holiday!
We seriously need to start looking at our priorities. For example, the recent protests against Chick-Fil-A on account of its president's beliefs about gay marriage is outrageous, hateful and un-American behavior. Instead, this company should be admired because of its practice of staying closed on Sundays and holidays because they believe that their employees should have a personal life and need rest from their work.
We desperately need to go back to this. May God open our eyes to this as well as to Him.
Christopher Andrus
Sowell forgets about Bush, apparently
Thomas Sowell's analysis (Nov. 9) of President Obama's "contempt for American constitutional democracy" is not surprising. Sowell should recall that during the George W. Bush administration:
One could go on and on. One simply needs to ask where Sowell was during the George W. Bush presidency and his (Vice President Cheney's) war on our constitutional protections.
Peter Swift
Free speech seems to be only for some
Freedom of speech is alive and well, except in Livermore.
I'll explain: some friends and I noticed there were many signs favoring some new taxes, but none against. We made some signs opposing one tax, and placed some in Livermore, Fremont and Pleasanton.
On the weekend before the election, all our signs on two Livermore thoroughfares were stolen. We replaced them that Monday night, but most were stolen again by noon Tuesday.
One anti-tax sign at a government site in Livermore was stolen three times, but signs in favor of three proposed taxes were undisturbed.
Apparently, not all speech is equally free in Livermore.
Now, the proposed tax in question would have particularly benefited certain bureaucrats and government employees -- so one might assume a government worker or affiliated person did the repeated thefts -- an assumption with evidence but no proof.
I saw a city truck patrolling along one street, stopping sometimes near signs and an occupant getting out to pick up litter or perhaps nothing at all. I was observed following -- after which no further signs were stolen from that street. A coincidence? Perhaps.
Regardless, I would ask the thief of anti-tax signs to man up, step forward and identify him- or herself, rather than remaining an anonymous, silent coward like a KGB agent. Let us remove all doubt as to who is in favor of free speech and who is against.
Will freedom of speech return to Livermore? One can hope.
Russ Greenlaw
A modest proposal for high-speed rail
Like it or not, we are getting high-speed rail. But "blended rail" -- HSR on Caltrain tracks -- is loaded with danger. Forty-three grade crossings and many trackside platforms make that unsafe for high-speed trains.
Far better, safer, and less costly is HSR along the Mulford line long used by Amtrak from Santa Clara to Oakland and on to Sacramento, with an intermodal station in Oakland where BART crosses over the Union Pacific track by Interstate 880 at Seventh Street. (BART trains run from there throughout BART-land every few minutes.) By staging, that line could be grade-separated, multitracked and fenced at modest cost.
BART is under construction to Berryessa and planned to Santa Clara. Let's grade separate Caltrain from there to Millbrae and convert it to BART. Ring the Bay with BART!
Robert Allen
Comic not funny, never has been
I find the debate regarding Mallard Fillmore as the funniest thing about the comic strip.
Some years ago in his strip, the author wryly joked that people like me do not exist. I do my best to return the favor. Every morning I carefully set my cereal bowl over Mallard Fillmore so that it does not exist. I proceed to eat breakfast in peace.
Tre Luna
Electorate gets the politicians that it deserves
Let's look at what we have learned from this recent election.
Twenty-two of 22 incumbent senators were re-elected, and 353 of 373 incumbent members of the House were re-elected. The American people have re-elected 94 percent of the incumbents who were running for re-election to an institution that has an approval rating of about 9 percent.
That indicates that, as an electorate, we are a nation of idiots! We're now stuck with the useless, dysfunctional government that we deserve. And I'd say nothing about the electorate in California.
Albert Einstein once commented, "Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the true definition of insanity"
Edward Janas
Gasoline prices -- why so high?
Ever wonder what factors make gasoline prices so volatile and high? People come up with different ideas.
Some understand that spikes in gas prices are due to conversions from "summer blend" to "winter blend" gasoline, or vice versa. Did you ever ask whose idea these different "blends" were, and why California cannot use available gasoline that is perfectly OK for neighboring states? Why, the government, of course -- thanks, EPA and California Air Resources Board!
Others believe it's a gasoline shortage, especially during heavy driving periods. Why would there be such a shortage? Did you know NO new refineries have been built in the United States in the last 32 years? Think government regulations and restrictions might have anything to do with that?
More fundamentally, some think high gasoline prices reflect a general shortage of oil. Since Canada has a huge supply of oil and wants to sell it to us, surely that would help -- oh, I forgot, the government won't approve the Keystone pipeline, which would bring the oil here, so it's probably going to be sold to China.
Apparently, quite a few voters like spending more money on gas due to all these government agency regulations!
Mike Heller
News judgment seems questionable
Were readers supposed to feel warm and fuzzy to hear that a 27-year old with four children had a fifth child with her boyfriend? (Nov. 28 Times, page B1) Did this story really deserve the front page of local news? Why glorify single motherhood? Surely there are more newsworthy events to publicize.
Marilynn Hutchison
San Ramon


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Please join us for the first Americanist Speakers Series of the semester!
UNC's Tim Marr will present "American Imperialist Nostalgia and Moro Muslims in the Philippine Commonwealth."
Refreshments provided.
The United States rejected petitions from Muslim Moros who wished to remain Americans rather than be incorporated into the emergent independence of the Philippines. This presentation examines nostalgia for imperial American authority over the Moros when American power was being retracted during the Depression.Cultural examples include the cartoon Jungle Jim, the Zamboanga South Seas Nite Club, the Hollywood film The Real Glory, the adventure writing of Vic Hurley, and the few American constabulary and teachers who continued (and the more who remembered) their service in Mindanao and Sulu. This nostalgia was itself ironically mustered as an anti-imperial resource for resisting the Japanese occupation of the southern Philippines during WWII.
Tim Marr's book The Cultural Roots of American Islamicism explores how Islamic orientalism became an important transnational resource for early American global imaginings. This talk is part of his current research on the century-long enterprise of military conflict, imperial governance, industrial development, and intercultural education between US Americans and the Muslim Moros of the southern Philippines.
View the event flyer HERE. Follow the Americanist Speaker Series on Facebook.
Organized by Sean DiLeonardi, Katya Gorecki, Benjamin Murphy, and Nora Nunn.
Contact firstname.lastname@example.com or email@example.com for more information


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Homecoming festivities continue at Stillman College
Published: Friday, October 11, 2013 at 3:30 a.m.
Last Modified: Friday, October 11, 2013 at 12:38 a.m.
Homecoming festivities continue at Stillman College in Tuscaloosa.
Photo Galleries
Thursday's Founder's Day celebration featured keynote speaker Patricia Kirk-McAlpine, a 1973 Stillman graduate who worked as a civilian executive director of the Defense Contract Management Agency Space and Missile Systems before her retirement in 2010.
Also on tap this weekend: a golf tournament at The Links, with registration beginning at 7 a.m. today, at a cost of $75; the Blue Pride Luncheon at 12:30 p.m. today in the Hay Center Cafeteria, $7; and the president's reception for alumni at the Education Building from 5:15 to 6:15 p.m. today, followed by a pep rally at 6:30 p.m. in the Wynn Center parking lot and a bonfire at 7:45 p.m. in the Physical Plant parking lot.
Other homecoming events include a parade at 9 a.m. Saturday, beginning at 22nd Avenue and University Boulevard, the game against Benedict College at 1:30 p.m., the Battle of the Bands at 5 p.m. and a Greek step show at Birthright Alumni Hall at 8 p.m.
Reader comments posted to this article may be published in our print edition. All rights reserved. This copyrighted material may not be re-published without permission. Links are encouraged.


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There is a fundamental problem with GNU/Linux—it requires clueful people to exist in the IT food chain. Anywhere in the food chain. It doesn't take an experienced kernel hacker to install GNU/Linux, run a web server, or teach people how to log on to the network. It just requires a user with an interest in the subject, the ability to solve problems, and the desire to achieve results.
At no point is GNU/Linux experience a prerequisite for learning GNU/Linux. You can learn it the way you learnt Windows, through experimentation, Self-study, user groups, and so on. If you can apply knowledge you can solve problems. Knowledge is easy to come by, clueful people that can apply it, are not.
So, if someone is unable to roll-out a few GNU/Linux boxes in this day of Ubuntu, Debian, Novell, Red Hat, manual pages, web sites, and Internet forums it's not due to lack of experience, or lack of knowledge. It's due to clueless people without any ability to solve problems. Or read.
And the clueless outnumber the clueful, at all levels of the IT food chain.
So what separates the two?
Well, if I don't understand something, I ask someone. That's what all the smartest people I know do. Sometimes that someone is Google, and sometimes it's a friend, colleague, or paid consultant. But I ask someone. If I don't ask, I don't get. And if I don't get, I blunderabout on my own and don't succeed.
Unfortunately, the clueless outnumber the clueful
The clueless members of the community don't have the ability to realize that asking is a smart move, and therefore keep quiet; they fail, and blame it on the technology, their boss, or some other external force.
Also, smart people know that increasing their skill set is a good thing. The dolts are either incapable of learning something new (and refuse it) or think it will replace the knowledge they already have in their brain, rather than supplement and enhance it.
It's unfortunate for them that the same part of the brain that controls the ability to self-edit and monitor one's own performance is the same part that controls intelligence. That is, dumb people don't realize they're being dumb—and will never be able to do so.
Dumb people don't realize they're being dumb
Consequently, with every report written about a failed project, it's generally due to clueless people not understanding the problem in the first place.
And they outnumber the clueful.
Some might say this is an absurd rant, and stupidity on this scale couldn't triumph in the real world. Alas, it already has! Frequently. So much so that failed IT projects don't make the news anymore unless free software is mentioned somewhere, or there's some Microsoft bashing to be had.
A recent case in Birmingham, England (mentioned here) showed that an IT department wouldn't (or couldn't) interact with anyone (including the free software community) to help with its GNU/Linux migration. It showed they didn't ask for help, didn't Google for help, didn't look at increasing their skill set, and didn't listen to any clueful people that might have told them it doesn't take £535,000 to setup 200 desktop PC's. (I'd do it personally for half that. :) ) Surely someone must have said, "give me a breakdown of the costs for free software". Someone must have said "what is our annual running costs under Windows".
Alas, if the Birmingham City Council's IT staff are as clueless as is implied, they wouldn't have known that they should be asking questions. Let alone what questions to ask, and of whom to ask them.
And don't ask—don't get.
"Just ask" sometimes doesn't work
You must be quite knowledgeable abou Linux already. I've moved to a Linux-only environment now, and on my own, but it took time. As a newbie, one of the most difficult things for me was to get someone to answer a question on the forums without being shouted at and RTFM'ed out of them. And I asked my questions AFTER SEARCHING the forum about the subjects.
So, maybe, Linux advocates don't realize what a rabid, angry and uncooperative crowd the "linux people" can be. And when it comes to "little people" contacting open source developers about their products, the usual reaction, at least in my experience, is to treat the user as a parasite that's taking advantage of their art. Not good.
In terms of support, I preferred the indifference of Microsoft to the anger of open source. We have a VERY, VERY LONG way to go in this regard.
Depends what you first learned
I learned UNIX when it was System 3 version 7 and the IBM PC was in a development laboratory. I used "learn" to learn "vi", "awk", the "cshell", and "nroff".
After 2 weeks I wrote a word processor with wysiwyg nroff screen output prior to re-editing or printing. It was easy and a lot of fun as I am a dumb user who had never programmed a computer before.
Then I used a SUN 3 with GUI and Ethernet and could get my shell scripts to use GUI windows and widgets.
It wasn't until 1988/9 I had to use Windows on a 386 with 3.1. I couldn't get it to do anything I wanted, so I installed the MKS toolkit. I still couldn't get it to use the GUI stuff, and still can't even on Win2k.
My biggest headache was that I couldn't get the output from one program to automatically be the input of another, something that is usually no problem with *Nix even if you have to pipe through a filter.
Linux is easy, logical, and fun for me. I use the proprietary Revolution Transcript "dumb user" IDE to interface my shell scripts with the Windowing system. I can get it to do anything I want as a relatively dumb user who knows what he wants these dumb machines to do.
The thing I like most about *Nixes is the cron table, as I use this with my shell scripts to do 100% of my repetitive work automagically.
I used to write about my creations for end users on Novell Cool Solutions where I also used to answer questions from dumb users like me. I expect you can still read them by looking for "Stomfi".
Linux zealots
I agree with your point, and know only too well how off-putting and uncooperative members of the Free software community can be :( But I still believe asking is the way forward. Sometimes we ask the wrong people, ask in the wrong way, or in the wrong place, but we generally get there.
If, on the other hand, we ask something on a products own forums, and get abuse despite our best efforts to read the faq etc, then it's not a piece of software I'd want to be associated with.
Re: Cluefull vs. clueless
In general I agree with your comments. However, the problem goes beyond the IT world. It has been my experience that many of the failures of IT projects can be traced to IT burn-out caused by having to deal with brain-dead lusers in other departments. Eventually, most IT people, who have to deal with users outside the IT world, end up feeling as though they are repeatedly banging their heads against a wall and simply go through the motions of project implementation instead of trying to actually solve the problems that crop up. I can't say that I blame them for reaching this point.
I know of no other profession in which the practioner is supposed to learn everything there is to know about someone else's job, so as to be able to help that person do his job better, while the person receiving the help is allowed to believe that they shouldn't be required to learn or do anything new. There were too many times in my career when I ran up against this. End-users seem to believe that they shouldn't be required to know anything about how to use the tools that IT gives them. It's as though they expect to instinctively know how to use any complex tool or perform any task more complicated than opening their mouths to eat.
I think that IT departments need to recognize this phenomenon and develop some sort of rotation system to reduce the day-to-day stress of dealing with stupid end-lusers. Perhaps something akin to a baseball team's bull-pen should be put in place wherein any given developer/analyst/prograammer is only required to directly talk to end-lusers once a week. It's my experience that most IT people do want ot expand their knowledge, increase their ability to solve problems, and genuinely want to help others. It's the continual exposure to end-lusers who can't be bothered to learn that the data they see resides somewhere other than on their PC, or won't learn that randomly deleting files "because I don't know what they are" is a bad idea, or who won't understand that email sent from home won't be in their "sent-mail" folder at work, etc. that eventually drives most IT people to despair. Personally, I think it says a lot for the intelligence and restraint, of most IT people that we don't frequently hear of programmers running amok and LARTing every end-luser they can find.
Now, none of this is to dispute your contention that IT management can often be extraordinarily bad. I put a lot of the blame for that on the business schools of this nation which teach, by and large, that you don't have to understand anything about technology in order to be able to "manage people". The number of IT managers with MBAs who have no clue about what they're supposed to be running is far too large. It's those managers, who seem to think that people are little identical "functional blocks" that can be plugged in and out of projects without affecting the outcome, that need to be weeded out and sent into the darkness where there is "wailing and gnashing of teeth". IT managers who have come up from the ranks, provided they have the necessary inter-personal skills to deal with others, seem to be the most effective.
It's the MBAs who parachute in from outside an organization, have no knowledge of the corporate culture, no regard for the individuals whom they manage, and view their current position only as a stepping-stone to bigger things, that are one of the prime problems with IT today. They're the ones, with the grandiose visions of "let's integrate everything using MS IIS, SQLServer, and Access", that cause the problems - because they don't understand the technology. This lack of understanding makes them easy marks for the glitzy sales presentations, the opinions of the Rob Enderle's of the world, and the FUD that MS puts out about any competitor. It's these types that cause the biggest morale problems among IT departments because of the hare-brained decisions they make in the vacuum caused by their lack of knowledge and the echo chamber of their egos.
If IT is ever to be truly useful then business must make an effort to do three things. First, require that all end-lusers go through some sort of educational process that will teach them the basics of the technology they need to use to get their jobs done. They don't need to be experts, but they do need to know that the CD drive is not a frigging cup-holder, that unplugging network connections will cause their applications to fail, and that there is no "Any" key. Next, businesses must make an effort to relieve the stress caused from IT people having to deal day-in and day-out with lusers. This may require, gasp, staff increases - it's unreasonable to expect that IT people can continue to absorb new tasks and responsibilities with every staff cut or change in technology. IT professional burn-out is a serious problem and needs to be dealt with. I wonder if anyone has ever done a study of how much it costs to continually bring in new IT people to replace the ones, with experience in an organization, who have burned-out and left? My gut tells me the costs are significant not only monetarily, but also from loss of knowledge and the inefficiencies that result because the new people need to re-learn the skills the veterans took with them when they left. Finally, businesses need to develop career-paths within their IT organizations that will retain experienced people and allow for the development of IT managers from within the ranks of those who actually know what the they are doing with technology. If the necessary management people cannot be found in an organization then that organization needs to make a serious attempt to hire outsiders who have actual hands-on technical knowledge and not be content with hiring an MBA "because they'll be managing people, not machines".
Just my $.02,
The problem with the U.S. is that the people fear the government
more than the government fears the people. - Me
GnuPG key available at: pgp.mit.edu
$.02 x 2 Agreed.
$.02 x 2
Eliteism sucks.
Do you really thing that referring to people who "don't get it" as dolts and lusers helps your case?
Think about this as Linux continues to not make any serious inroads into the desktop market.
Elitism sucks, but stupidity will destroy the world
Yes, elitism sucks, but stupidity is worse!
Stupidity is destructive and annoying. It costs companies a fortune, and usually drives the good employees away. There's nothing more infuriating than having a clueless boss, or a clueless coworker making more money than you do. To further the insult, clueless people are usually lazy by nature, and tend to blame their failures on the company and coworkers.
I can still remember one of our "technical experts" struggling to install an old version of RedHat Linux on a brand new server. The said server required a special boot disk to support its controllers, but the aforementioned "expert" spent a whole day nagging about how "expensive open source is in the long run", as opposed to spending 5 minutes burning the ISO image (which I sent to him in an email).
For this and other reasons, I have absolutely zero sympathy for stupid and lazy people. If you are in the right position, get rid of them as soon as you can. You'll be doing all people in your company a big favor.
Get off your high horse
I find Linux very nice and useful, but...
When I can't get my sound card to work, I am told to read the how-to which goes in great detail about esoteric system stuff. And then I usually still don't have a working sound card. If, God forbid, I voice the opinion that perhaps more user friendliness would be useful, I get called all sorts of angry names, usually having to do with me performing unnatural acts with Bill Gates.
I am an application programmer, not a system programmer or sysadmin. I also use open source software, quite a bit. I know Windows better than 90% of my colleagues, but most of this knowledge is nice-to-know, not need-to-know. On Linux, it seems like I need to devote much energy learning system-level stuff, while I really care about application-level stuff. Yes, apt-get and the like are much easier to deal with, but the gist of my remarks still hold - you have to know/tweak too much stuff for the average user. Not for the average sysadmin mind you.
Thinking that other people who aren't up to speed on Linux are idiots, as your post indicates, is symptomatic of why Linux on the desktop is not happening yet, despite its impressive capabilities. And also hints at why I know a number of open source programmers who prefer Macs. Most of the non-Linux users are not interested in dealing with system-level issues. Telling people that "they just need to get a clue" is patronizing - vinegar is not a well-know fly-catching lure, honey is.
To Know or Not to Know
I'm more or less in the same boat. While I'd like to know things at a low level, I don't want to invest so much time in that area right now. I want to use and program at the application level. (e.g.)
It's tough to say how much we should expect people to know. On the one hand, I don't think everyone should have to know how every nut and bolt is fastened, but on the other, why shouldn't people be expected to learn something about the sophisticated tool they are using?
Thinking of computer knowledge as the literacy of the information age. If we compare to the invention of the printing press and the beginning of widespread literacy, it would be as if people didn't really want to read on their own. As if they wanted others to continue to do it for them. (But what if the book itself could read to you? The analogy isn't very strong.)
Then stick to Windows
Linux is not meant for the 'marketshare' or 'desktop user experience' - there are companies that focus on that, but that's not what it's for - just keep using Windows and stop complaining FFS.
Why should I not complain?
Linux fans don't mind complaining about Windoze, do they? I mean, that is the exact point of this article, _complaining_ that us poor idiots are too stupid to understand. So don't mind if I complain.
I wish Linux well personally and I am no great fan of Windows. As far as I remember there are a lot of nice folks who would like Mr. Average Computer User to use Linux. The system is in many ways already there.
"Linux is not meant for the desktop user experience" is kinda stupid and makes you wonder what all the poor chumps @ KDE, Gnome, Ubuntu, etc... are working for. Maybe you should share your oh-so-useful opinion with them?
Folks like you are part of the problem, not part of any solution, FFS
What a load of pompous
What a load of pompous nonsense. Your article shows you to be the typical over-arrogant Linux administrator.
I'm actually a software
I'm actually a software engineer... ;)
Good observations!
Very well stated, both to the previous comment and to the OP. I've been encountering a lot of this kind of stuff recently. My observations on corporate IT couldn't be any better explained.
There is a lot of high level garbage going on and too much of a departure towards the cost-saving business edge of things. Some day soon, IT will reclaim itself from the accountants.
Well said that man :) Your analysis of the situation is quite good, but i think you've forgotten one important thing - politics.
Generally speaking, all the 'good' IT guys that i've ever met (and i'm including myself in that category) seem to be lacking in people skills. Which basically means the 'clueless' (which you described) are the ones who shout the loudest, play the political game - and then they take the credit, and the hard work of the talented goes un-noticed and un-rewarded. Also, they may make it difficult for newcomers (with a clue) by denying them the essential knowledge they need to get the job done for which they have been hired.
Whilst you may know everything about a particular programming language / framework / application / network service / networking stack (or could pick it up overnight, given the opportunity), there are those who don't (who you have quite rightly branded the 'clueless'). These people are apt to feel their position threatened by those with a clue - which is kind stupid in itself, as management are almost always in the worse position to judge who is worthwhile, and who is full of BS. Management, in a fit of ignorance, may judge this person as under-performing.
What's even worse though, is that if a talented person leaves, most of the time the project carries on 'as normal' until something gets forgotten about, and it's only then that people start saying "we need so-and-so to do this". Then, of course, in come the expensive contractors.
Clueful Birmingham
So Birmingham's open source project crops up again. I was at a presentation given to South Birmingham LUG by the development team and I can say that the team DID seek out help as needed from the community, Google and consultants. I am sure the team would resent the "clueless" tag in the article written by someone clueless himself not to find out more facts about the project.
Also someone with more clue about how local government financing for projects works would know, if a project is given £500k, it will have to spend £500k, if the project had been given £100k, that's how much would have been spent. Also someone with more clue about local govt management would realise the amounts wasted in ensuring not even £1 was "misappropriated", whilst missing the irony of the excercise.
So £535,000 to setup 200 desktop PC's is a lot, but blame the accountants, not the developers.
At least Brum has got off it's bum and done something positive in trying to implement Linux.
Clueless are the vast majority
In our organization my cohorts and I find that about 90% of our IT peers are clueless.
Instead of us taking about 20 minutes yesterday to deploy our application, it took the illustrious "configuration manager" and "database administrator" 2 whole days and it still ain't right. And they had the support of one of our team members. Most of the deployment is automated. You have to really try to make it not work.
They did everything you could do wrong, wrong. Any manual steps were fully documented, but that doesn't help when the people who are doing the work don't read the documentation. Now people from my group are going to have to get called on the weekend to help.
It's totally insane.
And the dumb people keep getting paid. If I turned dumb tomorrow I'd get fired, but apparently if you've been dumb since day one, you can just keep on givin`er.
you're one of the clueless people.
How do you list "Debian" as something that only clueless people don't underastand? I've build successful enterprise applications, webmastered large scale sites. I've been coding for 10 years. Debian is easy? Debian is absurd. It's like a cult. Oh well, I guess dumb people don't know we're dumb, right?
And how do you list "man pages" as something recent? "In this day of..... man pages ...." Man pages have been around for 20 years man.
Incompetence as a mandate
I posted the following on the Birmingham article.
This wasn't about Linux v. Windows. There is no competition there among the competent.
This was about incompetent leadership. In the early 80's, I attended a Mensa meeting in Iowa. The man who helped found Parson's Technology came out of curiosity. He told us something about the computer industry.
Later, a national company, by memory Westinghouse but I may be wrong, made a big change to its national finance computer, which meant they had to frantically hire a lot of temp programmers, who told us the same thing.
If you take the computer programmer who can write and document the minimum number of lines a day, and set that number equal to 1, the best programmers are 25's. That is, the best programmers can do as much in one day as the worst can in nearly a month.
Here are two strange things connected with this.
1. Almost all supervisors of programmers are 3's.
2. No one over a 10 can keep his job working for a 3. They either become temp programmers and come in when the nincompoops fail and fix things. Or, they start their own companies. Or they tend bar. But, they don't work in large organizations.
Clearly, that was the case at Birmingham, proved by their failure even to google for help.
They could have had a good system rapidly and free, by simply contacting the Computer Club at the local high school and asked for help from the smart kids there.
As far as Linux being hard, there are different distros. Any newbie who starts out with Debian deserves everything bad which happens. I am here right now with Puppy 2.10. It is a small live CD, and runs in RAM with only 71MB size. I can watch videos, listen to audio feeds.
Another problem is, people buy their Windows computers pre-installed, all set up by the vendor team. Then, when they try to install a Linux distro on that same computer, they say, "Gosh, it's harder to install an entire distro than to turn a switch to ON." Yeah, I suppose so.
The real problem is not with Linx technically, but the market. Most really good apps aren't ported to Linux simply because the demand is small, because the good apps aren't ported to Linux, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
Most comments on the future of Linux are related to the English speaking rich nations, as if they were the only users in the world. Increasingly, poor nations are moving, albeit slowly, to Open Source, as a matter of resistance to seeing billions of dollars flowing to the US, and their young people having no programming jobs at home.
There will be more, and as a result, either good apps will be written for Linux by those nations, OR the vendors of good apps will be economically forced to port.
As far as rude and surly Linux people, the answer to most newbie questions will get hundreds of thousands of hits via google. Yet, day after day, newbies come on forums with the same exact questions: How do I install my tar.gz file? How do I shut my computer down? I am very patient, and when I have time, I will answer the same question a hundred times, which is why before I retired, I spent a lot of time at work teaching assembly operators, almost all their first contact with a computer, basic computer usage. As long as I got paid, I could repeat myself all day...
And, there are forums who are nicer. But, most have Stickies at top, telling newbies how to search first, and how to post. It is much faster to read a google hit, than for another person to spend fifteen minutes typing in letter at a time, the same information just for you.
Try a live CD first. Ubuntu or Kubuntu or Pclinuxos are real popular for newbies right now. When they become stable, Freespire will be a really good alternative.
Though competent people can save a lot of money with Linux, the real advantages are: virus free (not because no one writes v. for Linux, they have written 800, they just can't get past the permissions); trojan free; no licensing or auditing problems;no restrictions on free speech (your MS license prohibits you from making comments about benchmark comparisons with other OS unless you run their approved tests!!!!!!! Look it up.)
Well, I am really not sure about the INTENTION behind this article. Still, I believe it's more than just about WINDOWS Vs. LINUX, and it's about, if we can learn and use Windows the way we use (and say, oh boy! it's so easy to use) even without getting any formal training(mark my words, even I didn't get any formal training and whatever I know about Windows today is by all the helps available, whether it's Google, Windows Help, friends and so on), why we can't use Linux and why we say uhhh..Linux is hard to use. I think we have hell lot of help available online as well as with Linux and if we apply a little bit of our mind, we can be master of it :). Frankly speaking I really don't want to go in this so called WAR of Windows Vs. Linux or MS Vs. Free Software. I use both as per my requirement and I know their pros and cons. People are not fool that they use Windows, there are certain reasons behind it and plz accept it.
I see this article in perspective of how we IT professionals perform our day-to-day activities. Let me promise you, organizations are full of clueless people and few clueful people like me :) are so frustrated sometime, I really can't express here. And that's the reason why I believe; in IT industry the most important skill required is COMMON SENSE which is very uncommon. People know that there is a support site or knowledge base where 90% chance is that they will get the solution; still they will ask the same question again and again. And, let me tell you, it's not easy to fire them, then who else you will keep in organization.
Hello from Birmingham
I've met some of the people who were involved with this project and they definitely had some clued up linux people who are active on the local LUG list (http://sb.lug.org.uk). I'm not sure what went wrong, i've not had the opportunity to ask yet, but I think there is a lot more to this than meets the eye.
Tim W SBLUG LugMaster
Tim - if you find out what
Tim - if you find out what happened could you let me/us know. Thanks.
true ture
I have to agree on 90% of what you say...
also notes people that likes to work under support contracts in GNU/Linux instead of doing it them self...(very possible with GNU/Linux having 90% of drivers and code at our leisure) cause that way they can *blame* the vendor... I have very close people working in my department that keep always asking for this, I am like why? as long the hardware is working there is no need to call anyone. have a support contract under GNU/Linux means:
0-IT is lazy
1-IT don't really know how to handle the System, prob come from Windows world or been on the job cause they got they microsoft certifications :-) (sorry)
2-again read is 0.
Most clueless people aren't stupid
They are just lazy! Linux confuses them, because their only frame of reference is Windows, and they are too lazy to grow a new point of view. Or they are too timid to admit they don't know something and ask a question. There are a lot of nice, helpful people who will patiently answer the newbie questions.
You can 1) help yourself, or 2) ask for help-- but wtf business do you have complaining if you refuse to do either?
Welcome to the real world
Any device or method that requires a modicum of intelligence to operate will lose out in normal deployment situations against one that does not.
You don't put twitchy race horses before a brewery cart or even under a police officer. The purpose of IT in administration is not to make people learn IT, but to get their job done. Any additional requirement of intelligence is going to cost productivity, and severely so.
Stupid rules. Nobody else would run for Office.
Unfriendly Forums
I keep hearing this about RTFM unfriendly responses etc.
I have never come across this in nearly eight years of using Linux. (and I have my share of idiotic questions)
Its all about choosing the right forum.
You dont ask eg: wheres my panel gone in LKML
smile :-)
This article and the commentary with it was very interesting. I would agree that IT is in a bit of a bad state especially given the fact that I have had to repair everything at my location due to 10 years or more of neglect and the hiring of individuals who had no clue what they were doing. I am currently seeking employment however every single job requests certain qualifications aka MSCE or some such nonsense which is the biggest joke I have ever seen. I interviewed for one position with a supposed fortune 100 company that could not even figure out how to network their printers and had purchased a software aka cups and samba that was not working. This corporation had a ton of IT people yet they could not figure out how to add a network printer or use cups, at present they are still working on the problem. The best part are the recruiters and the interview process, clueless would be an understatement, how can someone who has no idea about IT be in charge or interviewing for an IT position. In agreement with a previous comment the individual who can talk a big game is often the one what does not know what the hell they are doing needless to say most IT individuals especially in an elevated position have an extremely minute understanding of what systems they have or how to operate them. In my previous position I have had to literally chew out every single management individual because they had no clue about what to do when a problem presented itself. I often sit at my office and go through the myriad of proposals to outsource this and that, or buy this and that, not once have I approved any of these purchases or even given them the time of day. I prefer to describe the IT landscape as extremely ubiquitous, the majority of IT agents are drones and the truly gifted individuals who actually can think outside the box are often reprimanded rather than given the tools they require to innovate. It takes innovation and critical thinking to come up with new ways of doing things and to also create wonderful things that is of course the nature of the open source world. The majority of individuals never being satisfied with the banality of the normal world have endeavored to create something different which requires that individuals apply themselves and LEARN new things instead of the constant repetition. The key word in this equation is one's ability to learn, if you cannot learn from your mistakes or do not wish to better yourself then yes "linux" aka *nix can therefore be considered hard. You may critique this distro from that distro, however in the final analysis the failure and success of your learning endeavor solely rests on your own shoulders. If an individual chooses to remain in the dark and refuses to LEARN then they are inevitably doomed to their faith. I personally could not imagine my life if I just sat at my desk being happy with the status quo, say what you will about the open source community, good or bad, I love the fact that we can have these debates and do the most important thing in the world which is to COMMUNICATE. Agree, disagree, it is all good, just remember to be thankful that we are afforded the opportunity to express ourselves and that we all have a choice in life.
Knowing how to find information is knowledge too!
About different people always asking the same questions over and over again. It was said they should better google their way to the answer so not other people would have to spend a lot of time writing the same answers.
But unfortunately, If you don't know the right terms to google it can be difficult to get to the right page. I think it would be nice if there existed a more central, generally acknowledged, database for most of the computer/GNU/Linux questions. I kind of a wikipedia on how to use GNU/Linux and other common free software. It could be edited by anyone and the guys who know would write the info only once.
Because knowing how to find information is knowledge too. Let's make it easy.
Using Linux products
I've worked in specialised fields; one example being bankruptcy. Not making people bankrupt but helping to sort out the mess after the event. The law is arcane and the terminology very different from everyday language. Yet it is not necessary for the law to be expounded upon at length nor is it necessary to insist on specialised vocabulary in order to explain someone's rights and duties, to assess a claim, or sell an asset. Presumably I am a fool. I have also worked on selection committees for a wide variety of jobs. Again, procedures and terminology might be glorified or good sense may be applied. I must be a fool.
the Toad, not anonymous just one ordinary person with one name, Toad Sheehan
You guys have it easy...
tshhh... you guys have it easy. MY boss can't even be bothered to learn to use GMAIL!!!


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