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Round 1
Round 2
Consolation Match
Suvudu Cage Match Recap: Round 1 Results
Suvudu Cage Match Recap: Round 2 Results
Suvudu Cage Match Recap: Round 2 – Divisions 3 & 4
Final Four Announcement Video!
Suvudu Cage Match Recap: Final 4
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387 Comments
Many of these matches are concomitant with the alleged randomness of the pairing which is to say: unmeasurable. However, being the hopeless geek that I am on the inside (and on evenings, weekends and/or long flights), I must weigh in on a few of these. Firstly and closest to my reader's heart:
1.Jaime Lannister v. Hermione Granger. Jaime Lannister wins wholesale. Even missing a hand, he wins. Even facing young-adult pulp-lit deus ex machina spellcraft, he wins. According to every possible metric of fictive reality, suspension of disbelief, the third wall of reflexive knowledge which is to say nothing of common sense, Lannister wins. To go any further into this would be undignifying (both to myself and to the written legacy of Westeros).
2.Rand Al'Thor v. Locke Lamora. Of course Rand Al'Thor wins (though it pains me to admit). For 73 or so novels, Rand has proven that no situation, threat or combination thereof is capable of disturbing his chilling, almost European-style dictator-ish rise to All-Power. Thus my vote for Rand is backhanded. What could stand against such a predictable fantasy-lit precedent? Not even the ailing of Robert Jordan, the vacuity of his current ghostwriter or the patent distaste of the fans he has conned into self-loathing could stop Rand Al'Thor.
3. Kahlen Amnell v. Drizzt Do'urden. Drizzt Do'urden wins by a hair. This one is tough because that dude that wrote Sword of Truth clearly was into D&D since its inception (cop that photo in the back of his books and you will know exactly what I am talking about). He only left the D&D community because of two other, more important letters bifurcated by an ampersand: S&M. His desperate and painfully transparent need to be dominated sexually drove him from the largely sexless D&D community and into writing masturbatory S&M fantasies for himself. D&D guy wins…argument from origin.
4. Roland Deschain v. Elric. Who the hell is Michael Moorcock? Is he one of those authors that takes fantasy too seriously? Oh wait, he's that guy that wrote all those books that nobody ever reads, right? Ohhhhhhh yeah. He's the dude that wrote those books that those 70's vintage hippies read while smoking their peace pipes and talking about how much they respected Native American culture. hmmm…Roland Deschain wins purely based on cultural relevance quotient.
5. Aslan v. Eragon. This one's easy: Aslan. Argument from origin AND argument from not blowing. The 12 year old wunderkind that amalgamated every fantasy cycle SINCE The Chronicles of Narnia forgot to do one thing with his books: make them good. He somehow fit everything else into his cycle (Star Wars, Narnia/Lord of the Rings, stupid nomenclature rules) except for making it good. Aslan wins because Chronicles of Narnia are good.
hey coast cutter,
regarding 4: You know that Stephen King would probably roast you on an open fire for that kind of anti-Moorcock heresy?
Honestly? Jaime vs. Hermione? I'm not perturbed about the matchup, but for the love of God, the TV version was just greenlit, and you flat out expose one of the best twists in the story? How the hell do you justify that?
Very disapointing to see no Erikson –
Karsa Orlong (Thelomen Toblaki) should be in it. Then Ganoes Paran or Icarium would be my second choice.
Kvothe – really? needs a second book first. smh.
Go Dent!
Not having any Erikson characters in the cage match makes sense, because they would overpower whoever they fought. Imagine Anomander Rake vs. anybody else on this list. Still, I can't help but feel a little disappointed as I was expecting to see a final between the overpowered Al'Thor and the overpowered whichever character was chosen from Malazan Book of the Fallen.
Steven Eriksson characters are indeed missing, sadly. It would have been really nice to see Anomander Rake up there somewhere.
Kellhus from Scott Bakkers books would have been another nice choice =)
There are some great characters on here, but this list is really lacking. I mean where is:
- Pug/Malimbar (Raymond E. Feist)
- Allanon (Terry Brooks)
- Lady, pre-black company and after (Glen Cook)
- Egwene or Nynaeve (Robert Jordan)
- Hawk (Terry Brooks)
- Nakor (Raymond E. Feist)
Yay, they even found Haplo : D
Thanks, I love the stories.
Great line up. Many of my favorite novels and characters.
And Moorcook is (obviously) great, as are the other authors.
These matchups are totally uneven. You should have matched people by type first. Otherwise it is obvious that Rand will beat Locke or Ged will beat Edward.
I just did a bracket. My final four were Aslan, Cthulu, Rand & Drizzt, with Cthulu over devoring Rand's soul in the finals to emerge victorious and horrible. Close matches were Raistlin & Dumbledore in the second round (Raistlin had Dumbledore on the ropes but tried to cast a cantrip and collapsed coughing up blood). Gandalf & Rand in the quarter finals (Gandalf forfeited after Rand took 3 1500 page volumes to explain how there was no water in the Aiel waste). And the semi-final match between Aslan & Cthulu was a 15 round knock down drag out slobberknocker between almighty good and ultimate evil. Cthulu won on points because Aslan couldn't sufficiently explain what Santa Claus handing out weapons to children has to do with anything.
I second the lady, good call.
In thinking about it a bit more – the comment above was right, too many bad ass erikson characters, they should have their own tourney.
Totally agree with Erikson and Bakker grandly missing from the fight lists. I'd love to see Icarium vs. Elric, Al'Thor vs Kellus, Gandalf vs. Quick Ben.
Where's the Bloody Nine?
Another vote for Erikson and Cook, and a vote against using two characters from the same universe (Dumbledore and Hermione). I'd also pull for Severian from the Book of the New Sun.
Personally, I'm pulling for Vlad Taltos — he is, after all, a godslayer, and there is at least one god in the game. My bracketing (done in a not-entirely-impartial way) has Vlad defeating Cthulhu in the semis, and then the Shrike in the finals… but, realistically, I doubt he makes it past Dumbledore.
@Dryvus: You're totally right. I wasn't thinking about anything but the indignity of Jaime v. Hermione. At least give him his due, was my thinking (I'd settle for the arch-villain from Harry Potter and no less…Lannister would still win . It would play out like this. V. would be so distracted from when Jaime nailed V's mother and left her naked and tied up to the whipping post that Jaime would have his only-needed second of advantage. Maimed or not, it's all he would need). I'm embarrassed to have made such a faux pas BUT in the way of making excuses for myself I have this [sort of] consolation: There is no way in blue hell that HBO will finish this series off in any satisfying way (for more on this topic see, Deadwood, Carnivale, John From Cincinnati). I'll be surprised if they get as far as…well crap I can't talk about that! In fact I'll be shocked if it gets a second season at all.
@moorcock reader: Not so sure about that. I am a compulsive King reader and have written a couple scholarly papers on King as well (not that this gives me any more or less cred than your comment…just sayin'). Something about Moorcock just doesn't jive with King's ouvre. For me it's the clash between Moorcock's hyper-Victorianism/Gothicism and King's utter resistance to employ such old-fangled literary tropes and dare I say irrelevant techniques (Here's a fun way to see the distinction. Moorcock goes to medieval re-enactment festivals and drinks mead and talks funny all weekend and King goes to machine-gun ranges and pit-bbq with kegs of Sam Adams). In fact the only direct name-drops I've ever known King to consistently make are Stoker (kind of obvious) and Matheson (All Hail!). I could be wrong. I would be interested to know if you know of a King-Moorcock connection.
Yes! completely forgot about him, I would love to see him up againt conan. Bring the handiwipes to clean up the blood after that match.
where are divisions 3 and 4 i cant find them!
Yep. Conan vs the Bloody Nine would be great. I guarantee the winner doesn't leave with all his body parts… and must forfeit the next round!
Division 3 and 4 will be out on Wednesday I think.
Ser Kingsguard may fix the 2 Hogwarts characters issue btw. ; )
What, no Severus Snape? Because, you know, he really IS a hero, and he really ISN'T dead…
I honestly feel that Pug/Malimbar (Feist) or Lady (Cook) would put nearly all of these characters to shame if pitted against them.
Pug/Malimbar essentially "cant" die till everyone that is close to him does. So wouldn't it make him near immortal status, if his opponent can't get at his loved ones? Also he has vast amounts of knowledge and is park God at this point in the series after Nakor died.
Lady is well Lady. She is hot and sees into your very being. Before she joined the Black Company and having her name spoken, she was extremely powerful. Even after joining the black company I think she would still be a match for most of these characters.
Either way this list is really missing some great people on it. They should have limited one character per series or expanded this to a larger field.
really? nobody from malazan. edwards in this shit but nobody malazan. what a freaking joke.
Maybe it's just because I love the underdog, but I have to vote for Dent over Shrike. Despite the fact that he would most likely stand there bewildered during the fight.
Amen brother, I was asking myself the same thing. WHERE THE HELL IS "THE BLOODY NINE"??
Oh yes, I see Jamie as winning over a random 12 year old any day for the exact same reasons you do.
Another flat-out obvious one for me is Polgara vs Anita. Anita is mildy witty and can fire guns. Ooooh. Polgara can *shift entire weather systems.* She could stop the motion of Anita's cute little bullets in mid air and then stop her heart with a thought, or if she so chose to be dramatic and prove a point, turn her into crystal and smite her with lightning.
Some people, like Polgara, are unfairly universe-altering epic in this fight. Totally different weight class.
It's really a shame that Jamie is going to go up against Cthulhu in round 2, and Polgara against Cthulhu in the quarterfinals. All these sad little weeners in your less stacked categories will get to pretend they've advanced so far squabbling amongst themselves, with your serious fighters nullfied from existence by the ancient epitome of the apocalypse right off the bat.
Cthulhu for final win, sadly. Do you think he'll even wait through multiple rounds? Once you've roused him from his slumber, he might just elect to obliterate existence post-haste.
Bloody Nine! Bloody Nine! Bloody Nine!
Although, I am sure we could list our favorite snubbed characters all day.
Ummmmmm unbalanced? Cuthulu vs. Aslan and just be done with it. Jesus/God vs. Inter-dimensional god/demon. No one else can compete.
What, nobody from Sanderson's Mistborn books? I'd love to see Vin's allomancy at work in this contest.
Lannister vs Granger and you think they're going to fight? There is another possibility and I think Weasely might be a little chuffed when finds out.
Personally, I'm hoping for Arthur Dent vs. Cthulhu in the finals.
Should have put magical in one bracket and non-magical in another. Like someone said, different weight classes. Have the two champs face each other if you want, at the end.
And Arthur dent things the improbability of him winning this thing is 100031:1
In spite of (er, in fact, inspired by) all the comments to the negative, I have to say that this list is pretty fantastic, and that the first round bracket matchups are pretty hilarious. The 1 v 16's are pretty great, and then you have matchups that REALLY make you think.
The one I'm most intrigued about is Ender Wiggin vs. Raistlin Majere. Here are two characters that are characterized by their incredible intellect and scheming nature. One has incredible technology, theoretically, at his disposal… the other, magic of incredible power.
Initially I thought Raistlin, but after thinking about how clever Ender Wiggin was, I think this fight could be very evenly matched based on 1) context 2) Does Ender get a chance to bore into Raistlin's soul as a Speaker, or is there no Orson-Scott-Card permitted moment of temporal suspension, where the combatants can talk for two or three pages?
Regardless of how you interpret it… it made me laugh, and think, and compare two worlds of fantasy, and two characters that I separately enjoyed, in a unique additive fashion. Thanks.
For the record, I'm picking Ender, because if there's any way to beat an opponent, he would / could find it. That beats nerd-rage, even archmage level, in my book.
Ged vs. Edward Cullen: Ged in a landslide. And I'm not just saying that because I'm old-school… we know there are characters in Edward's universe that far exceed him in power, which is purely based in physical prowess. Ged's the highest of his craft; I don't see how one could argue for Cullen winning in any realistic scenario.
Ged the Sparrowhawk could likely put Cullen down. Ged the Archmage? Come on. This would be no contest. He could even do it via dragon for the coup-de-grace incineration for the win.
I think Polgara is amazing… But Belgarion, Belgarath, Beldin, Or Sparhawk should have represented David Eddings! If not Belgarion or Sparhawk, who is going to challenge Rand?
I want to see Sparhawk, Rand, and Jaime in a swords only fight. My money is on Sparhawk, but it would be more than epic.
My Final two are Rand Al'thor and Cthulu. Rand is Rand and theres no one in in his part of the bracket who can stand next to him. As for Cthulu, well he's a super powerful God. Dont think anyone would stand up to him. I hate to say it but I think Cthulu wins, who can beat him?
Uh… because this is a discussion of [i]literary[/i] characters and the book was published ten years ago?
Agreed this bracket is a great concept, just would have liked someone from erikson over kvothe. plus the bloody nine or even glotka would have been great. Also thomas convent, gerald tarrant, severian, fitzchivalry, and someone from tad williams should be in. expand the tourney!
the ender/raist matchup is the toughest one for me too. I may go with Raist for purely sentimental reasons as dragonlance was my first series and Ender is more of sci-fi.
lastly if Cthulu is in, why not graendal?
I think we should have a death pool for the authors. see if we can figure out who is going to die first. Jordan ain't going to be able to wrap things up. Hopefully RR Martin can finish Ice and Fire but at this rate I don't think so, And wasn't King hit by a car pretty badly? I find it much more interesting to talk about if an author can finish his life work in time. I mean look at tolkien, it was great that he finished the series but they really had a hard time compiling all that simallarion and other material he had into something publishable. It just seems that a lot of authors have been dropping dead recently so I've been reading younger authors like Tad williams (the shadowmarch stuff is great)
for some reason I can't vote on anything past gandalf and the other guy. >.> this annoys me, because most of the things I wanted to vote on were in the lower half of the bracket. Am I missing something?
I, too, would have liked to see the Bloody Nine in the mix. Kelsier and Lan Mandragoran would have been cool as well.
I think it's a shame Lyra doesn't get to go up against Aslan; I would happily cast my vote for her, trusting that she'd be good enough to simply talk God out of existence. Sadly, Cthulu isn't going to listen to anything she has to say. Even if she gets a chance to consult with her alethiometer before the fight, all it's going to do is say 'Run away. FAST.'
And I'm also on the 'Ender takes out Raistlin' train. Yes, Raistlin is a time-traveling, god-battling black robed wizard; Ender, on the other hand, has access to Dr. Device. Assuming both contestants are fighting at their peak, Ender just sits back in his 'simulator' a few hundred light years away and orders the destruction of not just Raistlin, but all of Krynn. And then presumably feels really, really bad about it later and wishes there'd been another way.
really?! jamie lannister vs. hermione granger!! jamie is obviously the victor here. i mean spells or no… if jamie turned the charm on, even with BOTH hands cut off, that golden man could probably kick her to death before she knew what was happening! lannister ftw!!
Jamie vs. Hermione. I think Hermione has more power, but Jamie would just seduce her before her teenage brain caught up with the fact that the lovely pretty knight just stabbed her. Her brain often turns to mush around boys, let alone a man.
I have to disagree with Jamie Lannister v. Hermione Granger. It may be a disgrace for him, and he may be a wicked cool character, but a man with a sword is not much for a magic bearing wizard – almost regardless of age. Maybe Lannister could beat Granger in Potter books 1-3, but not after.
I agree that there should be separate categories for magical and nonmagical. Some of these pairing are unfortunate.
I also agree Vin would be an amazing competitor here. Or Kelsier. Or Vasher from Warbreaker, while we're on a Sanderson kick.
As much as it pains me, I think Cullen would end up facing Drizzt or Aragorn in the quarterfinals. As disgraceful as it would be, he'd probably beat Aragorn. Long-lived badass human with a sword isn't much against a mind-reading immortal with lightning reflexes. Meyer, in her fantasy of all that she wants in a man, gave him too many bonuses. Drizzt would take him though.
Hiro Protagonist should be against a nonmagical character. He would do well then. But he hands down loses to Gandalf. I have Rand al'Thor versus Gandalf in that quarterfinal, with al'Thor winning narrowly on sheer raw power.
Ender Wiggin could take on anyone in the real world and with time, but in a cage match he'd go down fast. This isn't Bonzo in the bathroom we're talking about. In that quarterfinal I've got Aslan v. either Vlad Taltos or Dumbledore (that's a difficult choice, and would be an epic battle), but I think the victor would be Aslan either way.
In the last quarterfinal I've got Cthulhu taking it. As I mention above, Hermione beats Jamie Lannister, but she's no match for Cthulhu.
In the semifinals I've got Drizzt v. Rand al'Thor, with al'Thor taking it. And I've got Aslan v. Cthulhu. This is the real battle, and should have been bracketed for the finals, but oh well. In a long and bloody contest, I'd put Aslan on top – not because he's more powerful or more cunning, but because he's the son of the Creator and is willing to sacrifice his own life to win – and then is of course resurrected for the final.
So I'm putting Rand al'Thor v. Aslan in the final battle. This is a really tough call. Rand's entire existence is getting him to that last battle, where he fights the opposite force that Aslan represents. He may be willing to give it all up and let Aslan finally put him out of his misery, but there's also the possibility that Lews Therin takes over and starts slinging real Age of Legends stuff around. So this is a tough call, but since I can't give Aslan TWO resurrections, and since al'Thor is "technically" fighting on the side of good and Aslan would have a hard time justifying killing him (he's too moral, in the end), I think Aslan would fall to the mad power of al'Thor/Therin.
[Which is odd, because Cthulhu would have taken al'Thor I think, and al'Thor nearly lost to Gandalf in the quarterfinals, but Cthulhu had previously been bested by Aslan's Deep Magic and self-sacrifice. Oh well.]
Jaime Lannister vs. Hermione: Jaime.
For one: Bran Stark. For two: Aerys Targaryen. For three: BRAN STARK!
In Westeros, Hermione would be deprived of all power, and what else has she got? In fictional, Hogwart-y England, Jaime Lannister would still be hell-on-earth for pretty much any reason you could name. This guy likes to fight for fighting's sake.
Oh, and four: "I'll send him to you. With a trebuchet."
It should be "Vlad Taltos", with an L in the last name, not "Taitos" with an I.
@Martin: You suggested Allanon but I will counter by saying that Gandalf is already in the brackets.
Ach; it seems this quiz is broken; I can't get to anything other than the opening matches of division one and two ..
Really nice idea though (o:
Honestly Edward Cullen instead of Lestat?
I'm not an Ann Rice preacher, far from, but how could they choose a vegetarian vampire over the one who tried to console Louis by dancing with the dead plague ridden mother of the child Louis had just killed.
One character's from a writer to chickensh*t to kill off a few characters and write a proper fight scene at the end after making us read 4 books as opposed to the character who despite trying so hard to be good ended up having the devil come for him to be his right hand man. In the words of HK 47 – Unacceptable Meatbags
umm,, cotillion anyone? don't know what all the jonesing for karsa or anomander is, i think we have yet to see the true greatness of the rope. and i think they should redo the bracket for just erikson. lostara yil vs rucket. OOOOHHH Yeah
Like one of the other guys on here said… the omission of Erickson's characters is unfortunate, but probably for the best… there are probably half a dozen guys in the Malazan series that would speed bump anyone on this list with maybe one or two exceptions… and those 1 or 2 guys would wind up wishing they had been speed-bumpped…
For the love of God people, get it right. I'm only going to say this once…
It's J-a-i-m-e Lannister – not Jamie!!
I predict Cthulhu dropping out in the first round because, one, there really isn't an even match-up, and two, all his fanboys want him to obliterate all competition, and he is evil with a capital EVIL, and what's more evil than destroying the hopes of his worshipers.
Or he goes home crying after the second round matchup starts when he realizes Jaime Lannister f'ed his mom.
Personally I would have liked David Gemmell's Druss to take on Conan. Like Gemmell wrote once a fight between an Axeman and Swordsman isn't going to last very long. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating once weapon over the other – just saying it wouldn't last very long given the different nature of the two.
Pug/Milamber? (or Thomas)
Felice Landry?
I'm going for a semi-final line up of Cthulu v Aslan, Gandalf v Aragorn (who has the easiest bracket).
What happens if it's Gandalf V Aragorn? 0-0 draw? Maybe strider will throw his match v Ged to allow a magical battle? Ged v Gandalf? I rckon the Wizard of Earthsea will be awed by all of the Istari's names when he has barely got one.
My money goes on Cthulu. Elder God trumps barbarians, assasins, heroes, immortals, demons and wet behind the ears messiahs.
Is anyone else unable to get into the third and fourth divisions?
Kat, the third and fourth divisions haven't been posted yet… maybe tomorrow.
the Rope though is a god, I think you have to exclude gods or they get their own bracket
So just off the top of my head the bracket would have to include Fear, Trull, Icarium, Mappo Runt, cutter, sorry,heboric, traveler, tool, Quick Ben, Fiddler, Tehol Beddict, Brys Beddict, Tavore, Kalam, Coltaine, Laseen, Shurq, ublala pung, Dujek, Whiskeyjack, Leoman of the flails, any number of bonehunters (espcially the drunk woman whose name I cant remember), bridgeburners or mott irregulars and even or espcially Kruppe.
3rd and 4th divisions open on wednesday
As fond as I am of Westeros and Ser Jamie's developing arc, he is both physically and narratively incomplete. The win goes to Hermione.
Hermione vs. Cthulhu is just too good a match and the fix is in; Jamie is betrayed at the last second by the editors.
Final four: Arthur Dent, Roland, Aslan, and Cthulhu.
The Elder God drowns the simpering Christian allegory in a sea of endless dread.
And there it ends.
Arthur Dent and Roland Deschain battle endlessly for eternity. Arthur Dent is functionally immortal and Roland's narrative is endlessly cyclical.
Wowbagger and Cthulhu bond over beers while watching the fight.
Would it be terribly wrong to hope for a pair of upsets in the first round followed by a jello match between Hermoine and Lyra?
I agree… This match is flawed. No Pug/Macros. Thomas?! A friggin Valheru Dragon Knight…
Not to mention Sparhawk or Belgarion. Probably the only two characters with enough raw power at their disposal to contend with Rand. Sparhawk has Bhellum… If we take Sparhawk from the end of the last book he has enough power to create and destroy suns.
Tom, ew. They're both minors. Now, I'm waiting to see how Raistlin vs. Dumbledore shakes out.
Know who this cage match is missing? Merlin, of Roger Zelazney's multiverse-crossing Amber series. One of the few beings who'd have a chance against Cthulhu, given resources like Ghostwheel, the Jewel of Judgement, etc. Cthulhu could end up just one more lobotomized god feeding its energies into a spikard.
"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style."
— Steven Brust
I don't like Dumbledore's odds against Lady Teldra.
Still ruins it for the new wave that will try the books after they see the show.
He'll probably just throw her out a window, anyways.
The Shrike beats Drizzt and Ged in the second and third rounds before losing to Dent in the first. Then Cthulhu devours 1d6 competitors every round after that.
And seriously? No, Plains-Class GCV Subtle Shift in Emphasis?
If anyone can defeat Cthulhu, thats Raistlin, he defeated Gods in the past.
I think Raistlin should win it all…
Would've liked someone from the Malazan series in this (Quick Ben, Anomander Rake, Karsa Orlong, or maybe Icarium), but hey…
Re. Jaime vs. Hermione, it's a tough call. On the one hand, she wouldn't use her magic to kill. On the other hand, Jaime from AFfC is no longer the same man who threw a child out the window; morality is catching up with him. Hermione is smarter than Jaime, in the sense of "book smart," but Jaime is a quicker thinker than she is in a fight – he knows the value of acting on the moment when needs be.
Ultimately, I think Jaime would win. In spite of his character growth, he is still capable of thinking pretty ruthlessly ("ballista," anyone?), and I think his battle experience would win over Hermione's good nature.
Besides, wouldn't it be too funny if he beat her only to have to face Lyra, another smart little girl?
Although i have not read a lot of the books these characters have come from, i think Kylar Stern, from The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks, could take out most of the competition, mostly because he is unkillable, he dies but then is brought back to life.
Having overthrown the temptation by the woman who is probably the most gorgeous, startling and seductive beauty of Westeros, [color=red]Jaimie Lannister[/color] is hardly going to be irritated by a [i]pubescent adolescent[/i] such as Hermione Granger. And so he won't even have to bother to unsheathe his sword and stain his blade with her unworthy blood but simply strangle her single handedly – literally.
That so-called spoiler is ten years old. Not a big deal, when his hand has been missing for a decade.
Cthulu for the win..but how come he is low on votes??
The only people strong enough to stop him are Raistlin (demi god), Gandalf (mythrallan), and Harry Dresden( wizard-outsiderbane)..and then probably if the three stand together.
Then again, this site is calling Conan as beeting Dresden..I'm realy curious how, frankly. Dresen's dog could beat Conan.
Dresden fights enemies much, mcuh more powerfull then conan in allmost every book..hmmm.
As to Polgara V Blake.. Blake has super boink.
I hope we're using 1960's original trilogy Ged here.
so i take it that all of the entrants must have originated in written form? that's gotta be the only reason why there are two harry potter characters and not one star wars character.
Seems like some of the links don't work.
Of course, after the last match, the entire tournament, competitors, spectators, playing-fields, and all, are destroyed by the effectors from the GSV Perhaps This Wasn't A Good Idea
Next time, definitely include The Lady from the beginning of the Black Company Series (or Limper, Soulcatcher, the Dominator, etc.).
And where's Neil Gaiman's Morpheus?
Polgara the Sorceress vs. Anita Blake: Polgara. Anita Blake: I'm a slut, and I can raise the dead, and I have a vampire boyfriend! Polgara: I've been a virgin for three thousand years, I can shapeshift into anything I want, and I have a sorcerer husband, father, nephew, three uncles, and several gods that I can call on. *waves hand and turns Anita into a snake* Oh, wait. That wasn't Salmarissa?
Temeraire vs. Haplo: Temeraire. No way in hell is the dragon going to come down to whiny man's level. If the dog is nearby, the divine wind will merely smush both of them.
Cthulhu vs. Lyra Belacqua: Cthulhu. Lyra–babble. Cthulhu–Swat. Squish. Snack.
Really? No one from the Thomas Covenant series? Foamfollower, High Lord Mhoram, Bannor, Cail, Vain, or Covenant himself? Maybe I'm just unhip…
They shouldve dropped in Raj Ahten from David Farland's "The Runelords" and maybe the valheru "Ashen-Shugar" from Feist
Harry Dresden versus Conan the Barbarian? Are you KIDDING?
Conan SO wins that one.
I mean sure, Dresden is scrappy and he can take a beating. Sure, he has access to the forces of primal creation. But… have you read any of the Dresden books?
The guy's like the Wile E. Coyote of urban fantasy.
He tries so hard. But you just KNOW that he's going to run headlong off a cliff or get hit by a truck. It's not a question of IF. Only when.
Conan on the other hand… I mean, have you READ any Conan? Do you know what that guy DOES?
HE KILLS WIZARDS. Like, PROFESSIONALLY.
If you're a spellslinger, by the time you're close enough to Conan to be locked in a cage with him, it's all over but the screaming.
I can just see Dresden trying to cadge an autograph as he gets pounded into the mat, though. I mean, he plays a barbarian at his weekly RPG session and everything.
The Luggage eats all contenders. Rincewind wins. Ballgame. Over.
Yeah, I'm disappointed that we didn't get anyone from the Covenant series. Especially considering the new trilogy is out and accessible to an entirely new generation of readers. I just want to see Thomas' sour disposition versus Rand's bleak narcissism. Existentialism for the win!
You mean our man Harry wouldn't just pull his gun and plug the greasy ol' Boybarian? 8 )
Nah. Not fast enough. Conan'd have his head before he got the pistol unsnagged from the fabric inside his pocket.
Agreed, we're talking Ged the Archmage, not Ged the old Ender Wiggin without benefit of technology, which would be to say, lunch meat.
Where's the love for Golden Age SciFi/Fantasy:
Seniors League Seeds:
1) Paul Atreides (OK, not really Golden Age, but how did he not make the cut???)
2: A Lensman (take your pick)
3: Valentine Michael Smith
4: Fafhrd & The Gray Mouser (who get to fight as a team)
I agree. Where the hell is Paul? Dune is the pretty much the best SF book ever.
Oh and Arthur Dent, too. lol
To all those ranting about Edward being on the list…. That's why he's here. To get his butt kicked. While we all revel in it. Duh.
Now, is that a good enough reason to leave out the likes of Pug & Thomas, or even Bink from Xanth (Bink v. Dent, anyone?)? Well, that's another question.
Or, maybe Edward just came from a really weak Conference. There's always next year….
Okay, but I am still rooting for Harry. And Conan better be drawn by Frazetta for us Mommies.
This is one of the best fantasy lineups I've ever seen, but I agree that sadly ignores some old-fashioned, but classic, characters. Can I really be the first person to mention the omission of Cugel the Clever?
Also, I second the disappointment at losing Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser.
Given a choice, I would have picked the Librarian over the Wee Free Men. It would be a thing of beauty to see him try and unscrew Aragorn's head.
My dream for this sort of contest would be if you had to earn the right to vote. Perhaps scoring 60% or more on a quiz involving all characters? That would help keep things fair, and avoid the voting being spammed by one-sided followers of some of the more popular characters.
PS: would anyone else love to see this turned into a Super Smash Brothers style video game?
JAIME LANNISTER VS. HERMIONE GRANGER…. how is it not obvious that jaime would win?!?! i mean she can only stupify so many times and wouldnt perform the torture or killing curses since they are "unforgivable." jaime on the other hand is a seasoned warrior. plus hes charming, beeaaaauutiful, and quick witted! she may not even make it to the "fighting" part cuz im sure he could lull her into some false sense of security with that seductive smile of his. even with his maimed hand and "change of heart," when the horns are blown and the battle begins his bloodlust would be unstoppable. she really has no chance… what a slap in the face that they would pair her up with our lord of lannister.
Colbey Calistinsson
Super Duncan
Thomas Covenant
Joshua Calvert?
Lots of things I could chime in on, but wanted to take a quick shot about the last match up.
If anyone has a mind that would probably not snap upon seeing Cthulhu, I'd say it was Lyra.
If anything could possibly make what passes for Cthulhe's mind snap, I'd be willing to be a cute, miniature Daemon Cthulhu could do it.
I cannot compete with all of the great commentary here. Many thanks to Suvudu for having a better version of March Madness. I cannot wait to see the outcome for this year and then what they come up with for next year – Bravo!
Three words: Imperio + Avada Kedavra.
Sorry, Jaime. You rock, but Granger's gonna kick your butt.
Now everyone imagine if Goku was in this tournament? Absolute annihilation. And if Eragon doesn't win, (Due to his unbreakable sword, and never ending supply of energy) I will cry.
OK, Hermione loses to Jamie because she would be bedazzled by his looks and charm, after which he'd just run her through. Besides, even in a straight up cage match she'd probably drop her wand or trip or something to create the cheap suspense that runs rampant in those books. In 'arry Potter land that might still work, but in a cage match that crap will get you killed.
Also, let's not forget how Jamie Lannister is from adult fantasy literature and Hermione Granger comes from kid's books. He is also a better character in Every. Single. Way. That should count for something!
The reason they have to put Polgara up against Anita is because if they sent any of the Eddingsverse men against her, Anita would win by default because she'd end up boning them. (And before you say Sparhawk's above that, one word: Lillias) We already know Pol can beat whores in a fight, she's done it at least twice canonically. People always remember Salmissra, but never seem to remember whatshername the Grolim High Priestess and her Epic Fail summoning that demon. Though Pol did have help from Big A. that time.
Man, I didn't even think about some some of those guys… Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser should have had an auto-qual… Like Jack Nickalus at the Masters in the 90's… They had no chance to win, but they should have been allowed to play. Colby Callistinson would have been a great addition as well, even though he's the same type of fighter as many of the others on the list… since he's actually a god himself and so has some chance against guys like Ctuthulu…
Jaime and Hermione? This combat would be soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo long.
Yes, it seems that Jaime will defeat her without problems, but…..
Is Hermione able to invoke a dragon? Jaime should make a Dance With Dragons, and you know, it would take at least five or six years.
I'm gonna have to stick with Jaime on this one. Even with a change of heart Jaime has no qualms about fighting dirty and plus his family may be betting on him.
Hermione's main disadvantage aside from lack of experience from a seasoned opponent is the time it takes for the casting. I can picture Jaime tossing a knife at her throat just to end things quickly and go home.
This cage match needs more Jeeves.
Or at the very least, cull one of the Harry Potter characters and add someone from the Sherlock Holmes series.
What time does voting for the bottom half open?
While I highly appreciate the exercise this website is undertaking, I'd point out there are only two series/writers which have 2 character representing them: LoTR and Harry Potter. Giving the potter lovers a second character, and thereby comparing it with the granddaddy of all fantasy is kinda sad. Tolkien is turning in his grave.
I would've sacked one to give Terry Brooks one character representation. I might have read his books while I was still in middle school, but I think he has earned it.
I would've sacked one to give Terry Brooks one character representation. I might have read his books while I was still in middle school, but I think he has earned it.
Remember reading about a badass by the name of Garet Jax? Or were you too busy popping pimples.
Yeah. Where the hell's Granny Weatherwax anyway?
I have to agree Dune should be represented here, and none of that post Chapterhouse garbage. Paul, and the God Emperor at the very least!!
I stand second to none in my enjoyment and appreciation of Vlad Taltos, but seriously, it should have been Sethra Lavode.
I think you guys are forgetting that Jaime was nearly defeated by the young woman whose name I can't remember. I'm insulted that you think any woman just falls to his charms. I find him vile. And as for looks-tall, dark and handsome beats pretty-boy golden in my book- any day
And why would Hermione's magic vanish on Westeros- who said the smack down was going to occur there?
Jamie can fight with a sword-big woo. He's not very bright. Hermione would paralyze him before he even got close.
As for the others:
Eragorn-please! he'd be hesitating agonizing over the fact that he ate a chicken for dinner or whether to kill an ant or not.
so: Gad,Gandalf,Aslan,Aragorn,Dumbledore. I can't comment on the others as I haven't read them all. But thanks for the tips because now I plan to.
She can't kill him because she can't cast the unforgiveable curses because she is inherently good thus she goes down.
I'd love to see one of the Amber characters here. Brand of Amber vs. Hiro. Now that's a match I could really get into.
HA! Nothing like a ridiculous cross-series fantasy death match to polarize the sci-fi/fantasy reading community and set them at each others' throats.
Silly nerds.
I would have loved to see Uther Doul and his possible sword. I'd rank him high just for the blade. Given his martial ability and intelligence, he'd be difficult to beat.
Eragon definitely loses to Aslan in the first match. There's no one who stand up to Aslan, except perhaps Cthulhu. Reason? Cthulhu is the Devourer of Souls. Hard to come back to life without a soul… that said, Aslan has "a deeper magic." It's too bad that Aslan vs Cthulhu will happen in the semifinal, not the final proper. That battle will be the most epic of all battles. Whoever either of those characters faces in the final won't stand a chance. My pick to win this whole shootin' shebang is Aslan.
The other match that I'd love to see is Aragon vs Drizzt Do'Urden. Or Drizzt vs Al'Thor… Or Al'Thor vs. Aragon. Battle of the swordsmen!
I'm glad there aren't any Malazan characters in the matchup. I couldn't get past the 4th book in that series because all the characters think the same way. Well, except Kruppe. He was memorable, but unfortunately the series wasn't about just him.
Apologies to Erickson fans – it's only my opinion.
Y'all are missing something vital:
Cthulu forfeits in the first round.
Do YOU want to be the one to wake him to tell him it's his turn?
ahh, see you missed Tehol Beddict, and if you made it to house of chains, Karsa is hard not to like. I will admit that Erikson is acquired taste.
Brienne of Tarth is a pretty beastly warrior in her own right, and don't forget that Jamie was cuffed/chained hand and foot, malnourished, and had been imprisoned for quite a while before their duel. If he'd been free of his bonds and had been in better shape, it would probably have ended quite differently.
When Jaime fights Cthulhu, he should come prepared, with Medusa's head in a sack. It worked for Perseus, it can work for Jaime. If he doesn't put a stop to the marauding old god, this tournament will end up rather boring.
You cant beat Aslan, he's a god!
Yeah, I give the whole thing to Aslan as well. He resurrected after all, after a nasty stabbing by the white witch. Not sure how anyone can beat that.
Just wanted to let everyone know that we have a discussion forum going on, if you want to complain/vent/suggest about characters we missed (or characters we "mistakenly" included!):
I'm looking forward to Rand vs Gandalf. That will be interesting.
Lets examine the divisions for a minute, shall we? As the current logic goes, the wee free men will win thier division and fight against…Arthur Dent? I'd rather watch paint dry.
Aslan vs Raistlin could be interesting…if they both make it to the division finals.
Cthulu vs Temeraire? *yawn*
My only real complaint, other than some missing people, is the seeding job that was done here. Maybe next year we can vote on heroes one week, the seeds the next, then the tournament as it begins?
ok eragon would PWN aslann by far. and no mortal being can defeat garet jax and even the deamons of the nether world would be to evenly matched with him. they would bot perish.
The lack of Erikson and Fiest characters in the lists seriously undermines my ability to judge this appropriately … but i'll try any way.
Dent races away with his division since his opponent the shrike (driven mad by the heart of gold will take out the rest of the bracket) … until someone can unseat his improbability he can't lose.
Thought the battle between Gandalf and Elric will be Legendary (no one else in that division compares) I'll pick Gandalf (over my preference for the Elric character) because he'll want to win more.
Division 3 is more interesting many fairly potent characters here … but I think Raistlin will win … he's meaner and more clever than Aslan (his only real competition) … and he's already beat up one god, another won't matter.
… the outcome of the final division (and the whole event) rest on someones ability to wake up elder gods … lyra can't jaime won't (not even with ms graingers help)… and the others will be hard pressed to even understand what the concept of an elder god is … prediction jaime seduces hermione defeats everyone else and then goes on to get them both banished to some outer realm by raistlin.
Gandalf enumerates Dents probability reduces it to 1:1 and wins in overtime … and goes on to face Raistlin in the finals …
in the end since Raistlin doesn't require a ring for his power that some halfing with too few fingers can throw into a volcano he defeats Gandalf … probably with a dagger in the back because Gandalf doesn't think that way.
Dude, SO right! Karsa Orlong would just wander out amongst all contestants, say "Witness," and proceed to destroy all of them.
Erikson's characters should most definitely be here. They define epic.
Drop off some of that Sword of Truth crap. And Anita Blake, and the little girl from His Dark Materials.
And let me further say:
I back up whoever put in that Paul Atreides should be on there. the Kwisatz Haderach should be in the thick of it.
Should have picked Belgarion over Polgara. Godslayer, Wielder of the Orb of Aldur, super strong Sorcerer? Yeah, he wins.
And where is James Clemens' Tylar? He's called the Godslayer, and he has a Naether-being tied into him. sure, break his bones. I dare you. Plus, winning might encourage Rollins to write the third book already!!!
Keep your snarky, pseudo-intellectual rants about Robert Jordan's series to yourself until you can back it up with your own multi-million copy sold fantasy series.
I'm a little surprised at the short shrift people are giving Rand. Even Cthulhu can probably be balefired. And with horrifyingly improbable, once-in-the-existence-of-the-universe luck backing you up, I can't really see anyone beating him. Kahlan would have beat him hands down a book ago though.
Unstoppable Destructo-Beam + ALL the lucky breaks = victory.
the top half has all the big names it isnt even
I'm just wondering why Richard Rahl isn't a main character on here. That would be epic.
Dombledore killing Vlad? You kidding me?
No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blade will seriously cramp his style.
…and that knife would have been Lady Teldra (or another Morganti blade) that would immediately EAT his SOUL. Nothing left to ressurect Faukes…sorry!
What, no Terry Pratchett characters, i'll admit most of them wouldn't be much good in a cage match but then again neither would Arthur Dent. Also it's a little unfair pitting poor Lyra against Cthulu.
Maybe it would be best only having characters from completed novel series up there after all we're not entirely sure how characters like Kvothe are going to turn out.
What about Ruby from Strirling's Emberverse? You know, the Sword of the Lady?
Dont Forget Bobby Pendragon.
This whole thing is great, but you shouldn't put multiple characters from the same book when there aren't a lot of characters to begin with.
I'd replace Aragorn with Logen Ninefingers, and Hermione with Vin from Brandon Sanderson' Mistborn trilogy (let's see how that armor fares against her….)
Also, Lyra doesn't really stand a chance here…so replace her with another "Silvertongue." Namely, Mo from Cornelia Funke's InkWorld trilogy. He's probably read the books for all these characters, and it would make for a fun 4th-wall-breaking battle.
Some awesome characters are missing from this. Adding to ones already listed:
Tris, Briar, Sandry, and Daja, or some combination of them from the Circle of Magic series by Tamora Pierce
Rhapsody, Achmed, and Grunthor, or some combinations of them from The Symphony of Ages series by Elizabeth Haydon
Jaenelle, Daemon, Saetan, and Lucivar, or some combination of them from The Black Jewels series by Anne Bishop
The Seguleh First.
Kvothe is the man and should be able to beat Aslan. I think we know enough from one book that he is a badass that not only is a great swordsman, but also is more than capable (in his prime) of extreme levels of magic.
Kane from Karl Edward Wagner should be on the list…
The lack of Erikson, Feist, and Cook bothers me, especially when there are two Harry Potter characters, Eragon, and a Twilight Character.
Honestly, who would've loved to see Karsa Orlong fight Conan? And if we can have the Wee Free men, why not the Black Company? There could've been the Black Company vs the Bridgeburners. That screams epic. And if Cthulhu and Aslan aren't too OP'd, you could certainly include Pug or Anomander Rake.
If I had to pick one, it'd be Gandalf via arm-bar in the finals.
What, no Tom Bombadil?
What about Bartimaeus? (Book 2 Bartimaeus, before hes weak)
i suppose if we are including geniuses should we have harry seldon as the moderator. he could probably tell us ahead of time who would win And he is the principal actor in the greatest sci fi series of all time (w/ humble apologies to you dune lovers.)
F.Y.I. in "The Gathering Storm" at the very end it say, and I quote pg. 760 HB, "And Rand opened his eyes for the very first time in a very long while. He knew – somehow – that he would never again here Lews Therin's voice in his head. For they were not two men, and never had been… Finally, he let out a deepthroated laugh, true and pure." According to this, Rand/Lews can't happen.
I think i like rand to beat cthullu in the finals. Rand is already crazy and balefire may be the only thing to take cthullu out. Rand must dodge Roland though. Rand would never get a weave off before he gets shot into oblivion.
I would like to see Brent Week's character "Kylar Stern" added to the list.
Also, if we're going to talk about characters from fantasy literature, why don't we include "Merlin" from Malory's Le'Morte d'Arthur, King Arthur himself, or Luke Skywalker?
I know.. I know. I was just saying. However, Kylar Stern is a cool character.
Although I'm a fan of Polgara, they should have done Belgarion instead of her because she has never killed anyone. That and I would have liked to have seen Jarlaxle or Gromph Baerne instead of Drizzt (definetly should have done different classes of fighters and magic users). That and I would have loved to have seen Tasslehoff Burrfoot thrown in there just for the randomness.
Although I'm a fan of Polgara, they should have done Belgarion instead of her because she has never killed anyone. That and I would have liked to have seen Jarlaxle or Gromph Baerne instead of Drizzt (definetly should have done different classes of fighters and magic users). That and I would have loved to have seen Tasslehoff Burrfoot thrown in there just for the randomness.
Does anyone see/know when round 1 will be over and when round 2 will be announced?
Why isn't Rand, "The Dragon Reborn" in the dragon army tree? Sorry if this has been brought up but it's my first time here
the lord ruler, clearly. with the backhanded slap of naeckbreakingness.
I agree. Goku needs to be in the tournament. It doesn't always have to be the protagonist of a series; I'd gladly take Vegeta as well.
Also want:
-Yoda (so he can hobble up to the battle with a cane, kick ass, and hobble away)
-Kazul (we're missing something without the King of the Dragons here. More people for the "mythical beast" weight class.)
-Mnementh or Ramoth, since apparently I'm creating a dragon's division.
-Mendanbar, if we can arbitrarily have two characters from one series. On his home turf, though.
How is Cugel the Clever not in here?
allanon takes out more stuff than gandalf, and in fewer books.
easy receipt to win:
1. weave that cool shield you used during the assault on the palace in cairhien, which can not be penetrated by anything save balefire.
2. use the before mentioned balefire to wipe anything out of existence (because even gods cant be resurected if they simply ceased to exist)
I cant comment on that cthulhu because i dont really know how he works
Jaime Lannister is the Badassest protagonist ever to walk the realm of fantasy. If he had his other hand lopped off, his eyes put out, and his skin flayed off, I would still back him in the lists against all other challengers. At the same time. And I know the other 10,000 voters for him feel the same way. Valar Morghulis, bitch.
Drizzt, Rand, Raistlin, and Cuthulu For the semi's
So why does JK Rowling get two heros? There are a lot of other really great series here who only get one, and a lot of great ones not represented…
Help! I can't look at Round two even! Why?
They should have one of these for the evil villains too!
What about Thomas Covenant and/or Linden Avery?
Kruppe, a mountain of delicacies for this illuminating insight. Bridgeburners vs black company indeed! Another I'd love to see would be Rake vs. Elric if for no reason that to see Dragnipur clash with Stormbringer.
I have to say, I loved the description of the Shrike vs. Arthur Dent match, and how they tied the whole thing together with Marvin and the Restaurant at the End of the Universe. That said, I'm also glad that it seems the Shrike has (barely) pulled this one out… Dan Simmons' Hyperion Cantos are my favorite Sci-Fi EVER, and I get the feeling they're actually not as widely read as they deserve. Don't get me wrong, I like Hitchhiker's Guide as much as the next guy, but everyone knows those books, fewer have heard of Dan Simmons…
Arthur Dent and The Wee Free Men both losing with such perfect match-ups infuriates me to no end. They both got their optimal (possibly disregarding Cthulhu for Arthur Dent and Dent/HandiJaime for the WFM) opponents, the opponents who would be at the worst possible disatvantage against them, and still the internet failed to deliver. I am ashamed of you all.
My roommate and I want to see Cthulu vs Rincewind. We think Rincewind would win.
Also the Wee Free Men would completely beat Aragorn. Stupid fanboys.
Too late for this year, obviously, but if you do this again, to rep Jim Butcher you need to stick Gaius Octavian in there. Benice to see him up against a less disgusting enemy than the Vord Queen.
Oh Lord no. I'm a big fan of the series, and even I wouldn't put Bobby through the hell of fighting any of these people. Even Hermione. He's just an average guy, no matter his angel powers or whatever the hell you call them, so he wouldn't stand a chance.
SNAPE ISN'T DEAD! I have finally found someone who agrees with me!!!! yay!!!!
and yeah Snape would be awesome for this.
And Voldemort, too, I mean, Dumbledore's dead, so why not Voldy?
Regarding Arthur Dent and the Shrike, the Shrike definitely deserved to win that one, and by a much larger margin. One of its main abilities/traits is that it functions outside of probability. Dent's signature ability is the manipulation of probability, but the Shrike would not be effected by it. Additionally, since the Shrike can jump from world to world in an instant, all it has to do is grab Dent, take him to the planet he's supposed to die on, then kill him (and that supposing he doesn't just hang him on the tree for eternity).
If you were going to set out to build a killing machine for the sole purpose of butchering Arthur Dent, it would be the Shrike.
If there is any justice, we should see Shrike vs. Cthulhu in the finals!
Raistlin has killed gods before.
Gandalf has turned from the death, becoming superhuman being. Cthulhu is godlike creature (not realy a god, but godlike).
I think Raistlin should defeat Dumbledore, be matched with Aslan, defeat Aslan, and then get defeated by Cthulhu (who will have an easy way till he gets to Raistlin).
Shrike vs. Cthulhu in finals.
Um… ok i guess you have to have read the Wheel of Time books to truly understand… but… RAND CAN DESTROY ALL OF EXISTENCE WITH A THOUGHT! HE CAN OBLITERATE ARMYS, KILL THE MOST EVIL HUMANS ALIVE, AND WILL FIGHT A DARK GOD, ONE HANDED!!! now my fanboy moment is over i just need to say how rands only weekness is his love for family/frends/girls, and in a cage mach that dosint mater. not to menchin balefire to the face and BOOM the fight is over literly befor it began
Alright. This is a pretty good list, I must say. Some characters I would add in:
- Paul Muad'Dib from Dune. I mean, he's got sandworms. That's pretty beastly.
- Katniss Everdeen from the Hunger Games. She doesn't have magic, but she's proven herself in deathmatches multiple times.
- Jack Swift from the Heir Trilogy. He's both Warrior and Wizard. I'd say he stands a chance against a few of these people.
I'd go with Duncan Idaho, or possibly Miles Teg for good old-fashioned badassery in a fight. Paul was good, but they were better. Though had fewer sandworms. Hmm.
Also, when does round two start?
Good idea. Idaho's just as good. Though a Mendat could be cool as well. Or maybe one of the Fremen.
Roland really should not be considered a difficulty for Rand… Since they both can apparently react as quick as thought. (Well, near enough, for Roland) Then the one who can defend against the other and still attack in the blink of an eye wins.
For any of the magic-users, Rand has an end all attack, Balefire. Which unravels the existence of anything it touches. Polgara must speak a word, and that takes a lot longer than the twentieth of a second that Rand needs to unmake her.
The only one I can truly see as a problem for Rand is Cthulhu, since I'll be honest and admit I don't know what the limits of his god powers are.
Just a comment on the seeding for this competition. The first matches between top seeds and low seeds are supposed to be incredibly unfair. I mean, have you ever watched college basketball? They're number one because they earned it (if a made up being can earn anything by being written awesome), and they get a first round that should be in their favor. At least that is how sports work, and if this competition was supposed to reflect the NCAA bracket, it makes sense it would work that way too. That's why the middle brackets should be more of a balanced fight.
oh, and I'm so glad that Edward Cullen was in this, just so we all could learn his real name.
Logan Nine Fingers is the most startling omission and he probably would win.
Rand has to embrace the source (granted he may be holding it already) Sort out his intentions with Lews (who almost always gets in the way now) and form a weave… not slow by any means, but not as fast as I'm hearing people claim (recall how he lost his hand)
We havent seen how his internal battles with Lews go after the climax of the last book, but that handicap alone can cost him valuable seconds, and god help him if Lews kooks out… We've got a couple immortals in these brackets as well, Rand is most definitely not that (as we're reminded nearly ever other Rand page) Food for thought regarding some of these outlandish claims I see being made…
That said Rand seems to have his priorities straight when it comes to eliminating threats, as we've seen when he explains how you fight someone thats smarter than he is… that kind of reasoning should be a huge asset…
My analysis: Rands magic delay equals the time it takes him to embrace the source (probably not applicable, say he has it already) plus the variable time it takes him to sort out his very serious personality issues with Lews plus the time it takes him to weave balefire.
I think the latest version of Rand wont even consider anything but balefire as soon as he can, but his magic is slower than simple thought and is subject to the Lews Therin impediment which has the possibility of slowing him down long enough for most of the heavy hitters to take Rand out… The only other possible wrench in the works is the balefire vs immortals = unknown (unless we consider the forsaken immortal, they're on the line imo, not the same class as what we have in the tournament)
This kind of argument is why this tournament really needed someone like Karsa Orlong from Erickson's Malazan series… to give it some real drama in a rock-paper-scissors fashion… there are a few warriors (not many, but a few) who might beat Karsa, but he's basically impervious to magic, so we wouldn't have all of the crying about how the magic-men should simply be obliterating the sword-swingers. It would make the brackets more interesting if there were people that could win in the later rounds based on matchups and not flat-out-I'm-simply-more-powerful-than-you power.
Yeah, but do you think people would really recognize the fact that your characters are immune to, or can deal with magic, or would it go the way its going now and people would figure that doesnt apply when the person casting said magic is as badass as so-and-so… or "thats magic, this is DEEP magic" "…hes a GOD" "…balefire burns you out of existence, like you were never there" "…hes the super-ultra-white now…" etc… Just my prediction, but I'm being pessimistic
Good point, I fear Roland would definitely kill Rand while he's throwing up on the floor. But take out the part about battling Lews Therin and taking time to weave balefire. The first happens only around Asha'man, Aes Sedai, and Forsaken/Spadowspawn. The second is negligible, weaving something relatively simple like balefire really is as quick as thought.
Even with both of those out of the way, he's been screwed over by the nausea and isn't going anywhere in the competition…
Though, if we decide that events in the last book healed this problem, then he really has no competition. Remember, pre-nausea Rand was fast enough to seize the source and catch a thrown dagger from just a few feet away. Catch, not block, that is very fast if you have ever seen a professional throw a dagger.
Good point, I fear Roland would definitely kill Rand while he's throwing up on the floor. But take out the part about battling Lews Therin and taking time to weave balefire. The first happens only around Asha'man, Aes Sedai, and Forsaken/Spadowspawn. The second is negligible, weaving something relatively simple like balefire really is as quick as thought.
Even with both of those out of the way, he's been screwed over by the nausea and isn't going anywhere in the competition…
Though, if we decide that events in the last book healed this problem, then he really has no competition. Remember, pre-nausea Rand was fast enough to seize the source and catch a thrown dagger from just a few feet away. Catch, not block, that is very fast if you have ever seen a professional throw a dagger.
Potential Spoilers! but as of the end of the last book, it seems neither Lews Therin, nor the vomiting are going to be issues for Rand any longer. And it's also worth pointing out that by the time the ref calls "FIGHT!" *any* channeler would already be embracing the Source, with multiple (in Rand's case, 12-14) various attacks and defenses already weaved and ready to be released.
Also, I think some people are leaving out the fact that any would-be lethal attack targeted at the Dragon Reborn would almost certainly be countered with an astoundingly improbable Rand-favoring happenstance. Hell, the attacker's family probably had a long and tragic history of heart conditions for the explicit purposes of giving the assailant a fatal heart attack mid-swing.
Well he was sayin…never mind.
Reposting this to the larger thread:
While I am with those that think that Karsa and Vin would have been great additions to this bunch, my hat is totally off to the suvudu.com people for coming up with this. It's a totally fun idea, and I think it should be annual. I see at least three ways to interpret these contests, totally welcome additional comments:
1. Character vs. character in a combat situation, based on specific evidence that we can pull from actual instances in their books.
This is the most obvious, and perhaps best suited to the "cage match" idea. However, there are a number of corollary questions:
a. Is it a literal cage, such as in one of the Road Warrior sequels with Tina Turner presiding, or more metaphorical? I totally vote for the latter, as it allows much more room for developed characters to operate, and perhaps defeat those with immense or immediate power.
b. Do characters get to bring their sidekicks, and/or invoke their powers of summoning? This would make a huge difference in a number of cases.
c. To what degree do we get to consider the quality of writing (in our opinion)? To my mind, this is an entirely valid consideration, and a totally subjective question that makes the conversation more interesting.
d. To what degree are we allowed to concoct scenarios where characters subvert the brackets, either by teaming up against a future opponent, rearranging the bracket structure (given credible power to do so), or otherwise changing the rules of the game?
Thanks again for making this happen, looking forward to future rounds.
Have to say, really like your ideas. Two things:
Where is Elminster? (talk about the greatest wizard of all time; I mean, he slept with the GODDESS of magic, for light's sake!)
Would love to see a Shannara character (but not the cry-baby one)
"Would love to see a Shannara character"
Like… Garet Jax?
More powerful than Raistlin? Remember, he *killed* the Goddess of Evil (one of the chief triumverate in that cosmology), took her place, and then proceeded to kill *everybody else*. (Only, then that didn't happen after all. But it could have.)
Point being, high-level wizards are overpowered. The end.
Rand is way too powerful in terms of magic and physical prowess to lose to anybody in this tourney, except for maybe Cthulhu.
I love Jaime Lannister, the Kinslayer, but haven't forgiven him for pushing Bran out of the window and for fathering Joffrey–yuck!
I am finishing up "The Name of the Wind," and Kvothe is a bad ass! Still, he needs a couple of more books before he can be considered a serious threat with the likes of The Shrike, Conan, Cthulhu and Mr. Rand Bloody Dragon Reborn Al'Thor!
I concur that we should have had two different tourneys, one magic and one physical.
Where the hell is Yoda? Or Anakin? Or Darth Vader?
My two cents!
Oops! I meant Jaime Lannister, Kingslayer! Of course, Rand is the Kinslayer!
One of the Demons from The Worm Oruborus should have made the tourney, maybe instead of Aragorn. E.R. Eddison was an influence of Tolkeins and Lord Juss, Spitfire, or Brandoch Daha could put up a good fight against anyone.
Tad Williams should have been represented also. Regardless, awesome idea and I am having fun reading.
Well my 2nd round bracket was almost perfect. I forgot to factor in the porker fantasy chick set all voting for Jaime over Hermione. And I really thought that jerk Dent would find a way to pull it off against the Shrike.
I guess it's just as well there shouldn't have been two Harry Potter characters in the bracket anyhow.
As far as round 2 goes, I see Dumbledore following Hermione out of the room, even though all he needs to do is get Raistlin to fall over convulsing try to tie his shoes.Ged from Earthsea is on track to upset the Elf Star. As I said in the Rand thread the Dragon Reborn has the hardest bracket in the tourney, having to likely go through favorites Conan, Gandalf & Drizzt to get to the finals, all regulated moot when Cthulu obliterates existence in the finals.
I don't really see anyone except maybe Aslan or Cthulhu in the finals posing much of a threat to Rand al'Thor. What everone seems to be forgetting is that Rand can weave barriers of spirit that can cut a person off from interacting with anything magical. Gandalf and Ged will be rendered powerless within a few seconds of engaging him. Drizzt, Conan, and Aragorn are all only human with minimal magic, and don't stand much of a chance.
The only genuine threat to Rand would be a quickdraw shot from Roland Deschain, but that's not too likely. Even if Roland gets the first shot off, Rand doesn't need to consciously decide to defend himself to deflect bullets. He can "tie off" his weaves, or place wards over areas, to create lingering effects. A simple air weave, and every bullet sent against him will be deflected before it can hit.
What everone seems to be forgetting is that Rand can weave barriers of spirit that can cut a person off from interacting with anything magical. Gandalf and Ged will be rendered powerless within a few seconds of engaging him.
Rand can cut people off from the Source. Neither Gandalf's nor Ged's power comes from the Source (nor Kvothe's, Dumbledore's or Raistlin's for that matter).
He might or might not be able to Shield them, but at the very least it would require entirely new weaves, and be completely outside his experience. A hefty bar of Balefire seems like a better option for him.
Drizzt, Conan, and Aragorn are all only human with minimal magic, and don't stand much of a chance.
Approached right, Rand might feel compelled to fight them fairly, i.e. no magic. Under those circumstances, Drizzt and Conan at least would eat him for breakfast, though probably not Aragorn (Aragorn's skill with a sword is respectable, but nothing legendary, in the source material).
Ahem, its reading comments like that that remind me how awesomely cool some of the stuff in the Wheel of time is. Then I rememeber all the bad bits….
This whole matchup is flawed. Gods should be in a separate bracket. This could have been a fun bracket to populate:
Torak vs. Sauron
Cthulhu vs. Aslan
Lord Foul vs. ??
I'm running out of ideas off the top of my head, but you get my point.
The 'mortals' bracket is missing some great characters who would have been a much better match with people like Jamie Lannister and Harvey Dent. Where's Silk?
OK, the two opening rounds I would have liked to see:
Kellhus vs Granny Weatherwax
An epic battle of psycological warfare. I see Kellhus reduced to tears after 10 minutes and croaking like a frog by the end.
Anomander Rake vs The Weaver (China Mieville)
Anomander Rake, because he's freaking cool. The Weaver, because its freaking cool, is gross enough to take Rake down, and yet could easily be defeated in a later round by anyone with the intelligence to bring along a pair of scissors to distract it with.
Aslan for the final for me, good will always triumph over the ultimate evil of Cthulu. Now could everyone please stop voting for Gandalf over Roland….
good always triumphs in aslans world, chthulus on the other hand… sure aslan cant be killed, that doesnt mean he cant be wiped out, deeper magic or not. besides, aslan might not even beat raistlin, how is by himself a qualified godslayer, even if he cant kill aslan, he CAN banish him to some misrable dimension, lion paws are to big for yellow rings( or was it green?)
Drizzt vs Ged – Drizzt easily has Ged outmatched physically, but it's all about how fast Ged can utilize his magic. Personally I think Ged can hold Drizzt off with lesser magic until he is able to summon his massive powers.
Ideally I'd love to see a final four of Ged vs Rand (Rand wins) and Cthulu vs Aslan (how do you even measure that?).
I can't see Cthulu being able to kill Aslan as he's immortal, yet I can't see Aslan able to do enough of anything to Cthulu to stop him.
Rand vs Aslan, Aslan wins on account of being faster, smarter, a god… and most of all, a freaking lion.
Rand vs Cthulu, Rand wins by using sa'angreal enhanced balefire on the slow moving mountain, eliminating it, but cutting himself off from the Source and driving him insane simultaneously.
Can't vote for Round 2 Division 3 and 4?
This is a problem. Even the Kingslayer needs help against Cthulhu.
Division 3 and Division 4 go up on Wednesday, 10:30 AM EST. Check in then!
But Goku wouldn't actually fight anyone until the final round–the matches would just build and build and build and then we'd be down to two competitors and then…
Goku kicks everyone butt.
(I apologize if I've ruined EVERY season of Dragonball Z for anyone)
We need to find a plausible way to beat Cthulhu before the semis. I have one possibility, and encourage everyone to pitch in. We have influence here.
This is a wonderful way to waste time. I'd like to second anyone who wanted Logen Ninefingers in this, I think Bayaz would also give a good account of himself (never bet against a magus!). Really there's enough for a 2nd tournament in the future. If you're going to include vampires why not the king of them all Dracula? Rather than this Johnny come lately sparkly Edward git.
I'd like to see Achmed from Haydon's Symphony of Ages pitted against Roland the gunslinger. That would be an interesting fight.
I wonder how the Shrike would fair versus a mistborn? Maybe he could jump out of time and reappear before they could push or pull on him; or maybe he'd just get tossed around like an incredibly heavy rag doll.
I second Martin the Warrior. Or really any of the badgers from the Redwall Saga. They might not make it past the first round, but it'd still be awesome.
Yoda in his prime v. Vadar in his prime would be a great fight, too.
a better one? garet jax is all very well and good but there are, in my opinion, some better choices.
Sorry… Aragorn beats the Wee Free Men…? How, exactly? They can easily overpower ANYTHING…. 'Cept p'r'aps magic…. Or Lawyers…. (No, wait… They've got their own lawyer these days, en't they? Scratch lawyers, then. lol)
Ok – as to this author death pool, my picks ftw would be Pat Rothfuss and Jim Butcher (Jim's a blackbelt though, Pat, watch it…)
And how in the name of all that is HOLY did Harry Dresden not kick some serious ass??? That blows my mind – Conan? REALLY?! Lol – and Kvothe vs. Aslan. Hard to pick, but Kvothe's my favorite character, of the 2. Btw – someone has a wonderfully sick sense of humor, putting little-fish Edward in such a vast pond…someone wanted to see blood. Lol^^
I think an interesting battle would be Conan the Barbarian versus Cthulhu. It might turn out to be a win for the barbarian, except that this is a vote and not a true battle, just as close as we can get to one.
I would have liked to see Rincewind in there. The dumb luck thing he has going would have made for some very interesting match-ups.
Although, I suppose he is rather similar to Arthur Dent.
I'm desperately hoping we get some Kvothe versus Raistlin action. Two of my very favorite "wizardly" tragic characters face to face would be a grand match.
Where are the links to the rest of the round 2 fights?
I see no reason why he couldn't shut someone off from another source of magic using the same technique if he wanted to. After all, the principle of shielding is weaving barriers of Spirit that cut a person off from interacting with magical sources. To me, saying Rand wouldn't be able to do the same thing to someone who draws their power from a different source is like saying that Roland wouldn't be able to shoot someone from outside his multiverse, because their physical body descends from different lineages.
As for physical confrontations, Rand is a trained unofficial blademaster, has been physically enhanced by becoming a Warder, and his preferred weapon is a power-wrought sword with cutting power that is comparable to a lightsaber. Even assuming in some plot-induced stupidity scenario that he fights them hand to hand, it would be seriously unlikely that any of their weapons would be able to stand more than a few blows before being cut in half.
…No, there is a huge difference between cutting someone off from the source and cutting them off from any magic, besides, in that same amount of time he could have simply balefired the opponent, twice.
Also, Rand has one hand. Even with two, Conan kills him and then cries sadly when he can't win over any of Rand's girls. Assuming Rand doesn't use his lightsaber, and he wouldn't if he even decided to fight them, since he doesn't think it's fair.
I think Raistlin wins, he kills gods. That's what he does. Honestly I don't think anyone on this list poses even the slightest threat to someone that has the power to kill some of the mightiest beings in existence. He also has complete mastery of time which pretty much lets him do anything, even the Shrike wouldn't have the upper hand.
Ender Wiggin could destroy anyone on this list. I seriously doubt that Raistlin could stand up to Dr. Device. Seriously…
Kvothe all the way!
We should not forget that Kvothe has killed gods before and one more wouldn't make a difference. Die Aslan Die.
They should have put in the sapient pearwood Luggage from Terry Pratchett's Discworld. Nothing stands between a Luggage and his owner. =P
when is round 2's second half…..???
please reply
There is no excuse for having 2 people from the harry potter world in this competition. They should have had Sir Camaris, or Sir Simon Snowlock in the match to replace one of the harry potter characters, maybe even Jiriki i-Sa'onserei. Also disappointed in the His dark Materials character choice Lyra common she is a weak little girl no special powers regular human for all intents an purposes. They should have chosen Will Perry, with the Subtle Knife that can cut though anything, or Iorek Byrnison, a huge armored bear, who is extremely intelligent, a great fighter, and a master blacksmith. I would also like to add if they are going to allow dead characters to participate. They should have chosen Ser Arthur Dayne, The sword of the Morning, as the representative for Westeros, he was as far as we know the greatest fighter in the series. Also in regards the Drizzt chances verses magic using characters, and how they can attack more quickly. Many people seem to be forgetting that he is wearing speed-enhancing bracers, which greatly improve his running speed, which eliminate the magic issue. At least as far as him not being able to get an attack in before they destroy him. Also in the Orc king he is shown to have inherited cattie-bries magic bow sometime in the future, which means he has very strong range attack now too. Also we cannot forget Guenhwyvar, Drizzt magical 600 pound panther friend.
Rand Clearly wins this one. The only opponents who might put up a fight are Aslan and Cthulhu.
But hes got Balefire > no kill deletig the very existence from the past. Even if someone starts an attck before beeing balefired that would never had happened.
And as for those saying LTT is a problem, if he takes over, it's even more imba than Rand.
As for those saying that seeing Cthulhu will drive Rand mad, well he is already mad before, and still the most dangerous, so whats the problem?
Not to mention that according to Rand's description he's got Callandor, which makes this ultimately clear.
Luggage vs Cthulu… probally the best match possible….
Cthulhu can drive someone mad just by perceiving him, yes, but that's hardly his only weapon. In fact, it's more of just a matter of fact than a weapon; it's simply his nature as perceived by the tiny minds of men. Cthulhu is not material as we know it, nor is he mortal as we understand it. The whole point of his cosmic nature is that he IS unknowable, and the physics and principles that make him are completely alien. To that end, I'm not sure there is even 'magic' that can harm him, save rites of his own making that seal him – and the other Old Ones on Earth – away.
That, and Azathoth pretty much makes and unmakes things as happy accidents. The mythos doesn't really play by simple fantasy rules – I think it was intended for it not to be quantified, as to make it supremely horrible.
Sooooo, yeah… Cthulhu, logically, could defeat all of these selections without much consideration.
Actually, I take back all of my earlier posts.
If anyone ever stood a chance against Rand it is Raistlin. I don't think Raistlin could be destroyed by balefire the way everyone else would be. Didn't his absolute willpower already stop a someone from unraveling his existence once? There is nothing in the WoT series to compare him to, so we can't know if his ungodly (Literally) willpower can or can't prevent balefire's effect. Does Raistlin even have a 'thread in the pattern' anymore, it seems like he's just an all powerful being, stronger than a God, who hasn't taken over the universe because he'd destroy half of it just by trying.
Still, since this really just boils down to a popularity contest in the end, I'll vote Rand.
I'm saying just Raistlin because Cthulu's madness would not harm Rand while in the Void. (Corny, but who cares?) Since he basically turns his mind into a machine, without letting any thoughts in, just action and reaction. Without it, yes Rand would die, his type of madness is nothing like what Cthulhu can cause.
Go Drizzt
he's got some serious scrappyness, it would be hard to imagine him losing at all…
Except to Rand (maybe) because he's just got ridiculous power
Everyone keeps saying balefire this, balefire that, can't stop rand, balefire balefire balefire…you have to remember that you have to be able to see to weave, and you still have to hit your target. its not a magic bullet, people. drizzt might be hard to hit with the speed enhancement. also, even the forsaken hesitate to use balefire after it almost unravelled existence. i think rand is still a strong candidate to win, but isn't the shoe in a lot of you seem to think he is.
I'm also not sure how rand's fighting style (based on a set of forms that both combatants use) would stand up to a truly great warrior like conan. I mean, if you feint trying to draw your opponent into a form you anticipate and instead he bashes you in the face with his pommel, you're going to look pretty silly. granted, this scenario would be predicated on rand not using the source and making it a stand up fight.
Wow, all matches (apart from Conans indisputable defeat) are amazingly close , some 4X% vs 5Y%. Will be fun to find out who wins, im eagerly awaitng the closing date
btw. Rand is awesome, but he really could start using more intresting waves. Like play a bit with lil Conan
if this is something akin to march madness then this tourney is the NIT. seriously. Why so few bad guys? no vord queen? no zandramas? where are the real number one seeds? belgarion? gaius octavian? allanon? pug?
That's the problem. The matches are just having Rand use balefire every time. While it is one of his strongest abilities, it is by no means his only power.
I mean, Rand can create hails of fire arrows, open a Deathgate and slice his opponent in half, form a lightsaber out of magic, cause the air to thicken and hold his opponent in place, make the ground explode under his foes, cut them off from all magic(though that wouldn't do much against his last two opponents), deflect any attack aimed at him, burn them to a crisp, throw them into the Dream World and slam the gate, etc. C'mon, Suvudu! Get creative!
Well it's official… sadly, you can cheat the polls. I was really hoping that the polling system was more intelligent, but yeah, not so much. After reading comments about massive surges in votes, and huge popularity swings, I did some testing.
Go figure that people can (and potentially will, given that they can) cheat the system.
This make me sad, as I really enjoyed this concept.
Allanon is in the tournament. He goes by the name of Gandalf.
Can someone please tell me how in the **** jamie lannister is beating Cthulu? I thought Cthulu was pretty much unbeatable….not to mention that Jamie has only one hand….
Cthulhu is not unbeatable nor is he even the most powerful being within that mythos ( a title that actually falls to Yog Sothoth followed by Azathoth)
One small key – look at the number of votes in that match up. Then look at some of the other match ups. Ask yourself "Why, self, would that match up have three times the number of votes?"
Then read my post two above your original.
This is why Jaime is winning decisively.
I find it disappointing that so many people are voting based on who they want to win, rather than who would win. Cthulthu should be leading Jaime by at least 90% to 10% if the majority of the people here voted properly.
Well, with the Shrike and possibly Cthulthu out of the tourneyment, I'm thinking Rand al'Thor is probably the top candidate to win. Roland stands a shot(pun not intended), but given Rand's air weaves, it's not a very good one.
I'm glad Jaime is still in, it's giving us more ASoIaF from GRRMM than we've seen in years. First new Tyrion in 10 years!
Checking the facts first sometimes helps finding the truth.
There were some strange surges in voting, but they appeared in the Shrike-Drizzt and in the Aragorn-Ged matches. (And I personally assume at least some of them might have something to do with people waking up in the Americas a few hours after Europe, but that's just a guess.)
As for Cthulhu vs. Jaime… maybe before whining, you should read the whole thread belonging to the match itself: Lots of people came up with very creative ideas on how Jaime could beat Cthulhu. After the first round, there seems to have been a general boredom about the godlike people all rushing the the finals, so there has been a lof of creative writing on how things could be different.
I honestly don't see the problem in that. This is a fun match, people. There is nothing serious about this. If it can stimulate crazy ideas and creative writing, that is more than anybody could have hoped for.
As for the high turnout on the Jaime-Cthulhu-match, George RR Martin himself wrote an alternative scenario on his website and advertised Suvulu. There have been loads of new users on Suvudu within the last days.
If you want to complain that a fully-flegded fantasy writer starts to write Westeros/Cthulhu crossfiction instead of finishing his book, and sending lots of new interested people to this website here, that's you choice. I guess lots of people will see it different, though. If all those writers still alive would come rushing in defending their characters, it would be a feast.
Well, this is a startling turn of events. Looks like all of the godlings are either out of commission, or are waning badly (Cthulhu, Shrike, Aslan, polgara, Gandalf)
Looks like Raistlin and Rand al'Thor are the only two magic heavy-hitters left, but plenty of interesting matchups ahead, nevertheless.
I'm actually quite pleased, everything seems to have balanced out in the end…
nobody explained a credible way for Drizzt to be the shrike. All you heard is a bunch of whining about this and that. People just picked Drizzt because they wanted to and then tried to blame it on the shrike fans as if we were ruining there game. Is it me or does D&D characters get more attention and votes than they should. Next year people should have to justify there votes with credible rationales. The few Rationales that were put forth sorely underestimated the power of the shrike or did not take it into account at all. Does not seem that fun to me. I am curious to see what happens in the next round. And can somebody please show another picture of that drizzt fellow. that clown they are showing could not beat C3Peo, let alone the Shrike.
If you'd like to cling to that illusion, you go ahead and do that. However, would you care to wager that one or two people, cheating the polls, can't influence the voting entirely by themselves? I know the answer to that bet already, and yet you seem to think you know better by your comments. Whining? Hardly – I really don't care what happens in this mock competition, as it has no bearing on my life. I was interested until I watched polls surge 6,000 votes in a matter of a few hours… yes, more votes than an entire poll at times.
So, before you try to disparage someone for testing the system and watching it fail miserably when he sees a potentially abuse, perhaps you should take a step back and think about what you say before you say it.
"Checking the facts first sometimes helps finding the truth." – I'm pretty sure that's exactly what I did. Check the fact, test the system, watch the system fail. Perhaps I'll just choose the most obscure person to win this contest and set up my cheats on a corporate network instead to prove a point?
Nah, sorry – you don't mean that much to me to prove a point I've already proven..
Is there a way to print the whole bracket or each section? I would like to use it as an example for my English classes. I think the cage match idea would be fun for students. They create their own heroes and villains and cage match them. Better than the typical writing assignment, right?
If you haven't seen it already Patrick Rothfuss wrote his own version on the Aslan vs Kvothe fight. I thought it was 4th wall breakingly hilarious how a younger Kvothe (its clearly set before he becomes the "kingkiller") got Aslan to concede.
I suppose Pug/Milamber or Tomas from Midkemia would be too pedantic.
Okay. How about Paul Atreides? No. Anyone remember The Black Company? Soulcather? The Dominator?
I got it: Davy, from "Jumper".
dude yeah! Lady and a lot of other charecters kicked ass in the black company but lets not forget the whole series came about because the Dominator was essentially the baddest ass mofo on the planet–remember in The Silver Spike, how difficult it was to kill him, how powerful he was? and that was in his weakened state–we're talking the ability to mind-fuck everyone within ten miles and rip there limbs off at the same time.
I can't believe no one has mentioned the Saint of Killers from 'Preacher'.
I propose the tounrament be postponed until the Saint's kill-count (deities included) can be tallied.
Need I say more?
Well yeah bro you could just say Jesse Custer from preacher instead. i cant think of a badder as than him–except for maybe Jody. >wink
Initially I thought that it would've been a good idea to add a character from the Black Company (Lady, Dominator, Shifter?)…but everyone would fall against Kvothe who knows the names of all things. Otherwise, yea, Lady for the win.
Razor Eddie
Predictions- How the rest of the tournament will go: 1)Drizzt will defeat Ged. Reason: I have no idea who Drizzt is and how he defeated Kahlan and the Shrike, so he may as well defeat Ged. 2) Rand defeats Roland because Rand can nuke anything. 3)Raistlin defeats Kvothe due to fan popularity, I guess. 4)Jaime defeats Temeraire because after defeating Cthulhu, a measly little dragon should be a piece of cake. Next round: 1)Rand nukes Drizzt. 2)Jaime's popularity beats Raistlin's. Final: Jaime for the win.
Premature Sour Grapes- What should have happened. I'll skip straight to round 2. 1) Shrike shreds Kahlan. 2) The Wee Free Men overwhelm Ged. 3) Rand nukes Conan. 4) Elric defeats Gandalf 5) Aslan beats whoever 6) Raistlin defeats Dumbledore 7) Polgara beats the dragon. Cthulhu steps on Hermione. Next 1) It's a close fight, but Shrike defeats the Wee Free Men, even if they get the time bending History Monks to help them. 2) Rand nukes Elric 3) Aslan defeats Raistlin 4) Cthulhu steps on Polgara. Next 1) Rand vs. the Shrike, hmm, close one. I'll flip a coin. Bah, Rand won. 2) Aslan vs. Cthulhu. This could be seen as a symbolic battle of Christianity vs. atheism, and though I belong to neither belief system, I'll have to go with the lion. Final: Another coin toss. Bah. Rand won
Rand wins no matter what. Why? Because he can burn anybody out of the pattern. Sure the world might collapse. But the opponent would be long gone before it happened….
Drizzt has defeated a very powerful demon, an all powerful malevolent artifact and has come to draw with a deity. He is even rumored to be favored by a goddess or two. So yes, Drizzt can win.
When reading LOTR The Fellowship does not seem much on paper compared to Sauron and his minions. We know what happened there.
In our world a bunch of enthusiastic amateur hockey players from the US defeated the Shrike like Soviet hockey team in 1980 at Lake Placid(yeah I'm showing my age). I do believe in miracles.
For a better picture of Drizzt try Elfwood.com and access the art of Leah Keeler. It isn't official art but, I think its the best. There also is a link on the Drizzt/Shrike thread. That picture isn't half bad.
Drizzzt could win? Please explain to me how? Nobody has given me a credible reason as to how Drizzt could win. In Lord of the Rings they at least had a game plan as to how Frodo would defeat Sauron. Frodo and his 8 companions did not take on the Shrike head on. In hour world the Shrike is not The Soviet hockey team, but the original dream team. Drizzt is going to loose the only question is how badly. What game plan does Drizzt have. Maybe Shrike will dull his blades cutting Drizzt to pieces. Or maybe the Godesess that favor Drizzt would destroy the Shrike after Drizzt is dead thereby Drizzt achieves a Posthumous moral victory. Please explain to me how Drizzt could win this battle. Drizzt needs help, and plenty of it. No way he beats the Shrike. Maybe those godesses who love Drizzt so much would be better served fighting the Shrike themselves.
The Shrike losing to Drizzt (by 13 votes, mind you) may not make literal sense. However, it does correct the first round mistake, where Dent should have won, precisely because it was infinitely improbable. Drizzt would have taken Dent, because the imbalance is not quite so large, so the improbability is finite. Huge, yes, but finite. So, we're back where we should be.
Put differently, The Shrike didn't lose to Drizzt, but to Dent. His time-traveling abilities delayed his loss by one round, but Dent got him in the end.
I second this. When struck by a nuclear bomb, the Saint emerged from the cloud of dust and fallout and muttered, "Not enough gun." He brought an M1 Abrams tank to a halt with a raised boot.
And unlike many magical beings mentioned here, the **thousands** of people (innocent and villainous) that have died at the hands of the Saint of Killers were killed up-close and personal, with not an ounce of mercy or regret.
And it doesn't matter what he's shooting at, he cannot miss and his six-guns cannot give anything but fatal wounds, the only creature he ever shot at that lived was Cassidy (due to a fluke in continuity).
I love how everyone's commenting on the various matches complaining that they're being treated like popularity contests, rather than a straight-up fight, sans bias.
I would argue that they're being treated like popularity contests because they are popularity contests. I'd even argue that they're intended to be popularity contests.
Why? Well, a lot of reasons, but two big ones:
1. The great people here at Suvudu who've organized this 'Cage Match' haven't defined any limitations within the matches. That is, nowhere have they said something like "All matches will be fought in a caged arena" or "All contenders are permitted to bring two friends to help" or even "No contenders are permitted to bring friends". This has led to lots of confusion and argument in the comments. People cried foul when Drizzt used his friends to beat Kahlan, saying that it wasn't within the rules to bring friends… When, in truth, there are no rules, and furthermore, the Suvudu writers allowed him to bring his friends, simply by writing the example scenario like they did. This happened with numerous matches. And, really, this lack of rules lends itself to the second reason why this is most likely intended to be a popularity contest.
2. There are literally infinite ways for each character to win each and every match. Gods can be felled, wizards' magic can fail, one book's universe can be utilized instead of the other's… We've seen countless possible scenarios in the comments for many of the matches… For instance, the match between Jaime and Cthulhu especially has sparked some brilliantly creative scenarios, including one from GRRM himself, in which Jaime (with Tyrion's help) simply ensures that Cthulhu doesn't show up for the fight. Each scenario assumes a different ruleset… Some assume a literal cage match, some assume Cthulhu is already awake, some assume that Tyrion can/can't help… By posting no rules, Suvudu has completely opened this up for creative writing. People who want to post comments to illustrate why their favorite character would win can do so freely, and with almost total creative license.
But, really, what it all comes down to is… Which character do you like best? Because if you like the character, you're going to be able to think of a way for that character to defeat his or her opponent, and you'll vote accordingly.
Just my two cents, though this comment is long enough that I almost think it ought to be worth at least a nickel.
Cloverhook, nice work. Several followup points.
First, I would reiterate complete hats off to the Suvudu people for making this whole thing happen. The basic idea is just flat-out brilliant. Yes, we may bitch about particular writeups, and express legit concerns about thousands of votes in very short period of time. However, all of this is predicated on there being a cagematch to begin with, and that would not have happened without Suvudu. I don't work for them, they don't pay me in any way, and they would never put me in one of their videos, if they have any sense
Rules. The Suvudu people said it was a cage match, and posted nothing else. To me, that is part of the point. We, the participants, get to argue about the rules. Is it an actual cage? Do characters get to bring sidekicks? How do we interpret character powers in light of intersecting worlds? All of these and more are valid questions for argumentation and discussion, and that is part of the beauty of the larger idea.
Cloverhook, I would gently disagree with the character preference part of your post. Certainly, that is one option, and I personally have voted on that basis in several matches to date. However, there are other possibilities. Many advocate a "realistic" approach, based on the respective powers of the contestants. A subclass of this approach, how quickly can they use them, is largely responsible for Roland's advance. We also have who is the better writer, which character is better developed, whose advance would make the competition more interesting, and any number of other possible bases for selection. That is the point. We as voters get to choose not only the character of our preference, but the criteria on which we base our votes, if any. Further, we get to change our minds between rounds. The cagematch is not just between characters, but also among fans, in the spirit of fun.
I have more, which is good, because there are more rounds. At this point, looking forward to round three.
You bring up some valid points. You are right sending Drizzt down the chute head on against Shrike with no preparation or foreknowledge would be akin to popping a talented Little League team in Yankee Stadium top of the ninth 2 out and 2 strikes. Oh BTW Yankees lead a gajillion to nothing. all the wishing hoping and praying is not going to help our Little League Team. So is winning an impossibility? No. Just like with our Fellowship there has to be a pre game plan.
Drizzt is excellent at physical recon. Even in RA Salvatore's earliest books he studies the adversary before he strikes. He didn't berserk his way through the Barbarian Horde. He has the asset/liability of the Hunter in his nature. There may be rage or anger but it's fueled by a ruthless logic.
Just as Tyrion aids Jaime before the fight, so can friends of Drizzt do the same. Think of Cadderly and his Edificant Library. It's supposed to be vast. A volume or two on the Shrike may present itself. Then there is Jarlaxle. Being so enigmatic he might know a thing or two about Shrike.
So, how can Drizzt win? With research from his corner(Cadderly, Jarlaxle, and Regis) they find they have a chance to induce a time feedback loop on Shrike. It can be an arcane .clerical spell or in the lore of the Underdark. The chances of success are small and it must be implemented by Drizzt. If successful, Shrike is traveling to the past, present, and future as part of an endless loop. It doesn't die, but the match is over.
Of the Drizzt books, I have read the SellSwords trilogy part one, Homeland-Exile, and am starting on the Icewind Dale trilogy. I've noticed in the write ups of Drizzt fans(my own included), his greatest assets are ignored. That is logically assessing a situation before going in, knowing when to run or stand,using what's on hand, and a determination to survive. He can also win many different types of people to his cause. Why would Jarlaxle and/or Cadderly help Drizzt develop a pregame plan? For jaraxle maybe a writeup by The Great Bard of Legend, GRRM, in the final match up against Jaime. Cadderly? Curiosity as to why the wall of Edificant Library's floor is sagging in the M section.
As to the Shrike books, I confess, I haven't read one. This site description does not make me want to read them. Shrike seems only to be a ten megaton nuclear bomb. You're certainly glad if this is on your team. Affection and afan base? No. This is perhaps a disservice to the author of the Shrike series.
I do paln to read the Ged series, Kvothe, and the Kahlen series. Their write ups have intrigued me. Of course, I'll read MORE Dent.
Thank you for your constructive input.
Something funny is going on with the voting…I mean it was weird with the gunslinger vs gandalf and its definitely happening on the Cthulu v Jaime page as well. Clearly there is some hack to vote multiple times.
NAKOR would be great!! him throwing a volley of endless oranges would be HILARIOUS!!
just throw YODA into the mix and have him wipe everyone up!!
Just wanted to say that that you should not let the descriptions of the Shrike shy you away from reading Hyperion & Fall of Hyerion. The Shrike does't really appear as a character so much as an obstacle. I mean its important to the story, but the real interest of the books are the characters (for me) & the Shrike is but a part in telling the story of these characters. Hope that makes sense.
First off, this is a brilliant idea from Suvudu. I've been looking around for a poll like this for ages!
A few problems though. If your going to include 2 HP characters then at least pick a bad guy (Snape or Voldemort) instead of a geeky teenager. And if HP deserves 2 characters then ASOIAF and WoT deserve 2 as well. I mean you could've had Arya or Jon (with Nymeria and Ghost respectively), the Hound, Gregor (or Un-Gregor!), Rhaegar, Egwene, Moraine, Nynaeve etc.
And what the hell: no Malazan characters?! You included Edward Cullen, Lyra and Hermoine but you didn't include anyone from Malazan?!
Right now, through sheer fanboyism, I can see a Rand v. Jaime final. And as much as I hate Rand al'powerful and love the Kingslayer, Rand will win.
First: I find this contest great.
A few things: Some of the matches just dont last long enough (like when Rand balefires, or when Roland pulls his guns and the game is over)
Soo my idea for a (possible) future cage match would be to have a certain junk (lets say 100k) of the armies of several books àof course you'd take the elite sodiers like unsullied or aiel ), get the most talented general and forbid magic (makes for a more interesting fight). That would give us the oportunity to discuss long and fiercefully fought battles
The series is called Hyperion. the books bring up interesting questions about humanity, our reliance on machines, evolution and God. The Shrike is the big mystery that everyone wants to know about. And a major antagonist of the book. Not the main Antagonist but a major one.
The books were written 10 years prior to the matrix, but the story has some striking similarities with that movie. So much so that I believe that the people who created the matrix story probably read hyperion. Don't get me wrong the plots are totally different but many of the themes and things that go on in Hyperion and the Sequel fall of Hyperion are similar to some aspects of the Matrix.
Hyperion is in a class by itself however. their are many stories told in this book, and if you are into seriously thinking when you read then this is definitely a book to consider. Its not for the faint of heart though. There are parts of this book that are very disturbing, other parts that will have you crying, and sadly parts in the beginning that will bore you to tears. The Irony in the book is palpable and the questions that it ask are profound. I have read Kvothe's book The Name of The Wind also. Only one book so far. Nice start. Not nearly as ambitious as Hyperion but a very nice read.
One thing …Aragorns fighting is legendary, in the battle for minas tirith, Aragorn, Eomer, and Prince Imrahil are so badass, they cut their way through each group of teh enemy before them , literally thousands of orcs and dark men and trolls, meet in the middle, completely unscathed, In other words they killed there way through teh very least hundreds of badguys and didt get a cut, ..if that is not legendary swordsmanship what qualifies as such…re read teh scource material my friend
Raistlen would go to any extreme to beat someone? Spoiler – Dumbledore died for his cause. Just sayin'.
I think Rand al'Thor should win this because, in the end of "The Gathering Storm" Rand has suddenly gotten his sanity back. With this, you can no longer say Rand can't win because he's crazy.
All right. Disappointed Sabriel (garth nix) isnt in this. Her versus Edward would be priceless (if short and one-sided) I guess she wouldn't be much good except a bit of charter-magic (not really in the weight-class) Pity though. I love Kvothe though he is not powerful enough yet to compete. (some unspecified powers given its a retelling from the future that mentions events 'tricked a demon, killed an angel' that sort of thing though nothing concrete)
Someone is missing.
"We present Lord Richard Rahl, the Seeker of Truth and wielder of the Sword of Truth, the bringer of death, the Master of D'Hara, the ruler of the Midlands, the commander of the gar nation, the champion of free people and bane of the wicked, and the betrothed of the Mother Confessor."
Someone is missing.
"We present Lord Richard Rahl, the Seeker of Truth and wielder of the Sword of Truth, the bringer of death, the Master of D'Hara, the ruler of the Midlands, the commander of the gar nation, the champion of free people and bane of the wicked, and the betrothed of the Mother Confessor."
What is up with the Quarterfinals? I can only access the first two, Kvothes and Temeraires are not linked-to
I dunno. I was wondering the samething. I guess it'll probably be available in a bit, but why not now?
Where is Fitz Chivalry?
I gotta say, if Rand ends up winning, I will be quite disappointed. As an identity, he is one of the most pathetically one-dimensional characters I have ever had the displeasure of reading about. Even Brandon Sanderson couldn't save him from the never-ending fumbling of Robert Jordan's attempt at making him worth reading about. It's like reading the angsty stage of Harry Potter in the Order of the Phoenix, except that it lasts for 10 books. Just about any of the characters above have more dynamic personalities than Rand. And if it comes to sheer power, then clearly any of the previous god-like characters who have been eliminated already would have won the contest. As of now, I'm pulling for Roland, but I have little hope he will win over the swarms of ignorant fanboys who sit on here spamming the polls.
Dumbledore beat Raistlin?!?! No way! I declare SHENANIGANS! Rabble rabble rabble!
Ponyboy from the Outsiders ? Greasers for the win.
Has anyone else notices that Ged and Drizzt are reversed on the quaterfinals main bracket? Ged should be coming from the second stem, not the first.
Hi Travis,
If you're interested in grabbing some pre-generated brackets, you can find some great print-out versions here: http://strongvon.com/bracketsheets
And there's a great write-up about using this idea in the classroom to engage your students (regardless of class subject) here: "March Madness: Using Tournament Brackets to Debate Academic Questions", NYTimes.com: Education
I hope that helps. Good luck!
Something out of left field, but I really like the Grey Caps from Jeff Vandermeer's Shriek. Very creepy and no one is sure what they are capable of.
Also, Jonathan Strange from Susanna Clark. He would be a good change of pace, and I think he would be great up against Termaire. Also – Molly from Stephen Hunt's Jackelian series, I like the steam punk stuff.
I hope there is a semifinal match between Rand and Ged. REEEAAAALLLLY looking forward to that!
Gryffindor and Dragon Army divisions go up on Mondays; Nightwatch and The Fellowship divisions go up on Wednesdays: the rest of Round 3 goes up tomorrow, 10:30 EST.
Is this 10:30 am or pm?
Three words-
I disagree.
You can't have actually read Harry Potter if you think Rand is a flat character. So, by some crazy logic that I am still trying to form in my head, your argument is invalid.
Well, I'm sure they'll be doing something like this again and thus have still more characters getting destroyed in ways that will anger fanboys. I will say I agree with whoever offered up Raj Ahten from the Runelords series and would also throw in Abdul Alhazred because you can't write the Necronomicon without being one hell of a badass
Nah, if a person dislikes Wheel of Time but likes Harry Potter then you could totally consider Rand a flat character.
Its just like when someone says Pantera sucks. They don't suck, you just don't like the style. Nothing wrong with that mind, we just don't tend to articulate the difference between not liking something and something being crap.
It really is a shame that this whole event has boiled down to bot spamming. When you consider what a fun event this should be its sad that people feel the need to dupe the polls just to make their favourite character win. My Personal favourite is Jaime Lannister as I find Georges writting style to be best i've ever read. If it happens again tho it would be nice to have all evenly matched characters so that we wouldnt have the stupid balefire arguements and people screaming that cthulu is a god.
The only other characters I would have liked to see in here would be Durzo Blint after he gave up the black Kakari so he had some of his powers but was mortal. Nakor would have been a great addidition from the krondor world as he is very comical. And lastly we should have had Tasslehoff Burrfoot from the twins / dragons series as I would love to see half the combatents entering the arena while Tas is sat off in the corner stuffing their prized weapons into his little pouch
Would have been interesting to see Belgarion vs. Vlad Taltos, Godslayer against Godslayer
Though Vlad Taltos has quite an advantage – he is immune to magic (not that it helped him against Dumbledores fireball and his fanclub though…^)plus he is by far the more proficient at martial arms as well as physical prowess.
Moorcock???? realy???? you have a grievance with one of the genres great pionners, are you serious or what, when has social relavance become somthing one person can decide without being a dic…tator or an ignorant recluse. Crawl back into your sad little world my freind and leave the universe to the imagination of people who can see past their nose.
are all the matches going to be reset with the new polling site? or just the roland/rand? a problem with one of the matches just makes me suspicious of the others, even if there's no clear evidence . . either way, i'm glad with the decision to reset that one match. thanks.
It was mostly from the Rand/Roland match.
Somewhat legitimately it was at 13,000 with Rand at 64% and Roland at 36%.
Then it jumped to 27,000 in just a few hours with Rand at 57% and Roland at 43%.
Then it made it to 35,000 with Rand at 54% and Roland at 46%.
Then, once again, it leaped to 47,000 with Rand at 51% and Roland at 49%.
Now it's been reset.
So it's obvious that there were spammers on both sides, but the Roland spammers were better.
A character that should be in the tournament is Kylar stern from Brent Weeks, The Way of Shadows.
Think about it, Kylar is immortal first and foremost, secondly he is not only a magic user but is also a master swordsman. All of his training as a wetboy(assassin) makes him the perfect person to pwn everybody in this tournament.
btw thank you guys for doing this i was in kind of a stump with good fantasy books, as i was waiting on the next books in multiple series and this got me reading more new series I already read the lies of locke lamoora awesome book, and am likely to read at least three new series i have never heard of before(Tempreari and Kvothe sound like badasses which i would like to get to know..)
So ya whoever wins is only secondary to me, as now i get to read more awesome fantasy while i wait for GRRM to release a book.
Though, no way should Dunbledore have been able to defeat Raistlin Majere in any universe, simply because Dumbledore is inherently good, and Raistlin, well, isn't… and with the strictures of morality relaxed, the evil ones can be a lot more ruthless.
As for the suggestions of thje dragons from Pern as potential contestants, that'd be rough as Pernese dragons won't attack humans…. plus, the fact that they time-travel could hinder a few things.
Jaime Lannister vs Hermione… that's a joke. Has to be.
I'd have liked to see Elminster, in the bracket comprised of "godlike spellcasters".
Oh, and as much as I like Drizzt, even I think Kahlan should have annihilated him with a single "touch". Drow spell resistance probably doesn't work against a Confessor's power.
I'd like to see a consolation bracket.
Just, you know, for the epic.
"I diagree" is two words, not three.
"There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."
Would be really cool if there was tournament like this but between cartoon characters or (even better) video game characters…
Imagine that! But i assume they don't do it because Mario is a sovereign winner with his popularity and ability to kill anyone by jumping on victims head
Read through most of the comments, and I have to agree with the posts asking where are the Amberites from Roger Zelazny's Chronicles of Amber series?
Also, no love for the Dai-San from the Sunset Warrior Cycle by Eric Van Lustbader?
It was intentional, to show that my post wasn't serious. I forget that people can't read sarcasm through the internet, so I leave little clues to help them a bit.
There are video game character brackets on gamefaqs.com in fact 2010's ended not too long ago, but it is in fact Link who is the sovereign winner. Only they don't write stories about how the fights would go or predict a winner.
I just want to say THANK YOU for doing this! It's fantastic fun… : )
This is actually a great idea–and a super-lot of work (is "super-lot" a word?).
But that said, we might see a third place fight.
Stay tuned.
I think some of the pairings are not ok how can Lannister win against Hermione & where is Belgarath the Sorcerer or Belgarion ?f
This is so frustrating, I was really hoping for a awesome showdown between the original Namer Ged and the newest Namer on the block Kvothe. Bad decision people.
Because the book was published for anyone to read in 1998.
If a book is over 10 years old, spoiler warnings are a moot point.
rand takes the cake no one not even aslan or well any one rapes is move powerful with callandor then ricard rahl is with the box of orden Rand IS GOD
Sorry for asking, if my question has been answered already. Do you Suvudu guys (may you live long and prosper) have plans for other tournaments?
Right now I'm pulling for Rand to win the whole thing. With Cthulhu, the Shrike, and Aslan eliminated, his only opponent left is Jaime Lannister. It's going to be Rand's fanbase against Jaime's, and the people who vote on combat ability rather than popularity will inevitably side with Rand as well.
Go Rand!
Alrighty. I know this is a bit late in the game. But I would like to take a brief poll. Has anyone here actually read The Dark Tower series? Because it seems to me like everyone is forgetting that Roland can't die because he has Ka (the power of fate) throughout every universe and demension on his side. I know he's just lost and its sad, but seriously… what a rediculous thought that fate would allow him to die… it doesn't make sense. Also, I don't mean to offend anyone by the next statement (and that definately includes the makes of this cage match)but this is entirely a popularity contest… which is sad. Get some readers and bring these characters to life (I'm not a fanboy… im just a little bit hopeful.)
I thought you were a reasonable person, Amen-Ra. I think the reason Drizzt and others won against the Godlings was overall rebellion from the fans. After all, it's no fun having 50 ton megaton nukes in the final.
Here's my take:
Rand unleashed Balefire and Drizzt found himself not dead but, in a crowded arena. Two tall humans, male with a false hair cap and a yellow blond female with scarlet painted lips ran up to him and thrust some sort of wand at his face. They flanked him at either side.
"Dritz Dwarden you've had the most amazing run in this Cage Match but you didn't reach the final. Do you feel your coach has just turned into a pumpkin?"
"No." Not only had they incorrectly pronounced his name but, there were really bright lights. This in some ways was more trying than the previous 4 matches. He had no real quarrel with his last 3 live opponents, not even wit the Construct. He also had no idea of what the metaphor of "Coach to a Pumpkin" meant.
"A lot of people thought you had a chance againsnt Rand al'Thior. Are you disappointed?" said the yellow haired woman with the faint brown hair roots. She was speaking more at something unseen than Drizzt.
"No." in truth he was glad to be alive and gratified to learn that this defeat not final.
"So who do you pick to win?" said the man with the false hair cap.
"I don't know." He had been told of Jaime Lannister and his kin. The Lannisters had much in common with the Drow Clans of the Underdark. He was a Kingslayer and attempted to murder a child by throwing him from a tower. Many like events had occurred in his peoples' history. Yet, he couldn't hate the man, Jaime Lannister. In many ways Jaime had been dealt immediate retribution. Drizzt strangely felt an empathy and compassion for Jaime Lannister.
Rand al'Thior? He had given much personal sacrifice in his world. At one time he must have been different, thought Drizzt.
Drizzt slipped through the 2 large humans. "Well done Dark Elf." said the brown hooded figure that slipped beside the Drow. "I would call you friend. We may meet as allies the next time." Drizzt hnoded to the Mage Ged.
Drizzt headed towards what looked like an exit. He was met by hooded figures and Guen. One stepped forward, he lowered the hood and bowed. It was Jarlaxle. "Have a good time?" he asked the grim ranger in a merry manner.
"You arranged this?" Drizzt asked though he knew the question was only of a rhetorical nature.
"The final match is at a place called King's Landing and we're all invited!" said Regis the other of the hooded figures.
"King's Landing of Westeros,", Jarlaxle enigmatically said, It's where our world may be headed. I'm putting my money on the Lannisters. The Second Boy Tyrion is really why Jaime is in this Final."
"Worry not Drizzt we're in a shaded pavilion." said Wulfgar.
"Later." said Wulfgar
"And ye are goin' with us Drizzt! No sitting in a dark room and moping! There's very little of this magic to be had in Westeros. It'll make it fair!" said Bruenor.
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Silly little Fanboy. You did not know that once you visit this website you become guilty by association. Nobody said that Roland did not Die he simply lost the fight. If he is incinerated by balefire he may magically reappear but he still looses the match. Of course this tournament is a popularity contest. What do you think they have computers tabulating who would win based on statistical analysis of the fighters involved. Ha ha ha! Silly little Fanboy! Don't worry. You will grow to be a Big Fanboy some day. Like me. Ha ha ha!
I am sorry but I loose all reason when I here about elves like Drizzt swinging swords around called Icing death and twinkle.
I don't have any problem with the Godlike characters loosing. I just don't like Drizzt.
I don't want to get into the whole Shrike thing but I am pulling for Jamie. If people don't like Godlike characters then what is Rand Althor doing still fighting. THat Balefire makes him more of a God than the Shrike ever could be if you ask me. I think what people are really voting for is the character or book they like the best. I don't have a problem with who wins just justify your answer. If you can't justify your answer at least talk about your book and what you liked about it. Maybe I will read the book and justify your answer for you.
Rand Al hore is going down!!! Him and his friends. Like GRRM said. Come to Westeroes. Pick the best 7 from WOT author. And Jamie Lanister and his best of 7 from GRRM. And let them battle it out in the ARENA. Crush the Wheel of time and all of its inhabitants. Its going to be A BEAT DOWN!!!!
I am enjoying the Cage Match series. It is good they fixed the spamming problem.
If they have a future match; raw abilities should be factored in along with the fan votes.
If Hero/Heroine A has a 75% chance of prevailing against Hero/Heroine B; it should be reflected with the fan vote and a random generation score as the 3rd factor.
I to. will be voting for Jaime Lannister. This is a point of agreement with us.
I will be looking forward to GRRM's write up.
yeah. no erikson? any of those you mentioned would dominate anyone on this pathetic bracket not to mention you left out the most deadly of all Anomander Rake.
and for the 12 year old who was slagging off Moorcock … if it wasn't for the likes of Moorcock the fantasy genre wouldn't be here today. he is one of the greats along with people like Donaldson. children.
There just as scaired as Rand Al HORE. Why else would the Suduvu people try to fix the fight by making Jamie fight one handed. They don't want to face. JAMIE LANISTER, THE HOUND, THE MOUNTAIN THAT RIDES, BRONN, THE NIGHT OF FLOWERS, DROGO, THE SWORD OF THE MORNING OR ONE OF THE FREAKING DRAGONS FROM WESTEROES BEING RIDDEN BY PRINCE AEMON THE DRAGON NIGHT. THEYED BE TOAST. THROW IN A FACELESS MAN AND A RED PRIEST, AND DONT LET GRRM THROW THE OTHERS IN THE MIX. FORGET ABOUT IT!!! THE WHEEL OF TIME IS RUNNING OUT OF TIME!!! Ok I admit I got carried away. But GRRM all the way baby.
The Shrike would punish all of them realisticly. they would go down like all the rest of the overpowering characters. Don't forget it's a popularity contest.
Rand, Aslan, and Cthulu (pls correct me if I spelled it wrong) would probably have been able to beat the Shrike.
Rand: now that would actually be the fight for the stupid "Balefire B**ches!" argument.
Aslan: Pretty sure all he'd have to do is say die, and the Shrike would fall over in a pile of pieces.
Cthulu: Idk?
I like this idea of the 7 vs 7 from George R R Martin, but let's make it more interesting…
Each character gets to pick 2 from their respective books. For example, Rand can get Perrin and Mat, Jaime can get Cersei and Tyrion. (These are just examples, other can be picked).
The other four would be the characters who Jaime and Rand defeated, on the team of the character who defeated them.
So for Rand's Team: Perrin, Mat, Locke, Conan, Roland, Drizzt.
and for Jaime's Team: Tyrion, Cersei, Hermione, Cthulhu, Temeraire, Kvothe.
An all out fight, an epic battle, with so many characters that few should be disappointed!
Also, a suggestion: Do NOT give a predicted winner in the write-up. End it on a climax, where the fight can go either way, and let the fans decide without Suvudu's bias for one character or another to win it. Post an ending, and whatever victory celebration there may be, AFTER the final votes are counted.
At least, I think that would be a cool way to do it, everyone has their own opinions.
I love that idea.
For the champ, they should do what you said with the story. But after we find out who wins, They should finish the story for in favor of the team that won.
I support the notion of the open ended, unbiased finish and then the conclusion after the match is won, but I don't think we should be bringing in already defeated opponents like Roland or Cthulhu. It kind of ruins the whole "seven from his own universe" idea that George Martin detailed.
I got bored so I started writing a bit for the last cage match with the idea of Rand and Jaime getting two character's from their books and then the other four they get are character's they've defeated in the cage match here.
Yes it's from Drizzt' perspective, you Drizzt hater's suck it up.
I'll post it when the final poll comes up on Monday, I think it is(?).
"Dumbledore beat Raistlin?!?! No way!"
I also thought that!!!!!
by the way , I hope Rand wins, not Jaime please!!!!!!
I will read the write up and review it. However, would Drizzt really let himself be drafted to be in Rand's football/melee team? Oh, he already was for the initial match.
My guess is that if GRRM get's his way, because he is G frakkin'RRM after all, he will have his ASOIAF characters and WoT characters. I think he is a huge fan of Wot.
RA Salvatore's Drizzt books are pure escapism and they have their place in my reading universe.
Like Agatha Christie's mysteries, there is a plot construction that goes from A to B(not always in a logical manner) and the fight scene. Also like Christie's characters, Miss Jane Marple and Hercule Poirot, Drizzt is an endearing character. You know Drizzt will prevail in the end and some days that's what you need.
The Drizzt books aren't Finnegans Wake, The Brothers Karamazov or the works of Kierkegaard or Solzhenitzyn. They are, however, lots of fun if you have other reading selections included in a catholicized literary diet.
This is what i like about the Drizzt stories.
Haha, I'd almost rather you didn't critique it. lol
My grammer is on the good side of terrible. lol Well I'll be crossing my fingers though.
Think of it not so much as Drizzt let himself be recruited as much as the powers that be (the Suvudu fellers) wouldn't let him leave without a nice farewell to the fanbase.
dont like that idea much. I like the 7 on 7 though. Y should people that Jamie and rand beat fight with them. why would they even want to fight with them. 7 on 7 from the authors pantheon seems more in the spirit of this tournament. 7 unconnected fighters that Jamie or Rand just so happen to have beaten after a random pairing in the Suvudu cage match, is a little forced. In addition to this there is presidence for the 7 on 7 format that GRRM referred to, if they fought in Kings Landing.
I think Martin should do a write up about his King's Landing 7V7 scenario, it'd be fun. But I don't think that the actual competition should have any such restrictions. Anything goes. Anyone can write up pretty much anything – that's how it's gone – that's how you've got to win :p
Even though I am a great fan of Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen, I think it is a good thing that none of his characters were included. Just imagine – anybody from the Deck of Dragons would slaughter their opponents in a matter of seconds. Probably slaughter the rest of the opponents and the spectators while they were at it as well.
I don't know about Jaime but I'm pretty sure Rand's line would be made up mostly of Main character's. Character's who have books about them, thus it would make the fight even more epic. Because we all know the main character is pretty hard to kill off.
Martin the Warrior. I lol'd. Who's down to watch Martin vs Wee Free Men matchup? Of course, Martin would get destroyed by anything he came up against next.
Now I know this'll offend some Lannister fans, but there is no way in this or any possible world that Jaime beats Cthulhu. Rand or Aslan (or possibly Kvothe) may be the only ones capable of bringing him down.
Run a Sword through their chest and they all Die.
But as the books explain, that's kind of hard to do to those character's for whatever reason. Else there would be no reason for the books because they'd be dead and wouldn't have done anything worth mentioning. Thus, more epicness.
Hmm… here's a question… Rand has been killing everyone with Balefire, which erases their existence back in time… SO, if Rand erases Jaime, depending on how powerful the Balefire, would it be possible for all of Jaime's kills to suddenly reappear alive? And then, hopefully, destroy Rand? In fact, all of the kills of Rand's kills should be around somewhere…
NO. Rand's balefire weaves, when used for something as small as destroying a single body, only erase time by a few hours at most. Unless these matches are taking place one immediately after another and Rand purposes using an excessively powerful weave, his balefire won't resurrect anyone.
Even if the others such as Kvothe did reappear, I would think that all of them(except maybe Cthulhu) would probably be more likely to be grateful to Rand for saving their backsides, rather than trying to fight him, since they retain all their memories of having died. If it did come to a fight, Rand would have no trouble dispatching Kvothe, Hermione Granger, and Temeraire, even all at once.
when does the final round start
Really with Balefire Rand could kill anything, even a god. *Cough* Overpowered *Cough* lol.
"Really with Balefire Rand could kill anything, even a god."
Well, yea… That is the point of the entire series. XD
I think we are all forgetting the most important thing. In Martinland, no one is safe, everyone dies. So Jaime doesn't have the 'main character' protection. Jordanland on the other hand, no one important dies even when they should, Gawyn . Therefore, Jaime is toast. He doesn't have main character protection.
Wrong person with the Sword. If Jamie was in the story the book might not have needed to be written. Unless you were reading the 1/2 page about Rand's not so epic Death
I think you are forgetting the main point about the Cagematch. Nobody is protected. We are not in some cheesy Wheel of Time Book. He lost that protection when he stepped into the fray. And in addition if its going to be fought in Jamie's whom turf like Martin suggest with 7 on 7 battles, of Martins best vs Jordan's best then you can forget about it. No way you can use that argument. If Rand cant die its because of Balefire, because nobody is protected in the Westeroes.
Not in the Westeroes they are not. When you read GRRM you quickly learn that nobody is untouchable. Rand Althor will learn this the hard way.
"When you read GRRM you quickly learn that nobody is untouchable."
Eh, when did I say untouchable? I said really hard to kill. When someone is really hard to kill and they go up against your average joe. Joe ends up dead 80 to 90% of the time. But when you put this really hard to kill person up against another really hard to kill person, it's harder to tell who will win because they're both hard to kill but because of they're higher skill level in magic, swordsmanship, or whatever it makes it epic.
I'm really interested to see GRRM take on this.
When do the finals start?
You are not getting what I said. Those rules will not apply in GRRM universe, and they do not apply in this tournament. Average characters and great characters get killed in GRRM stories. The difference is the attention that is paid to the death of the great characters. I will be sure to ask GRRM to pay great attention to the circumstances and manner of Rand Althor's death but I can assure you that in the end He and his 6 great companions will all Die. Maybe GRRM could devote an entire chapter to it in his next book. No one in this tournament was an average character. Jamie killed several great character's and major antagonist to get to this point. Rand Althor will simply be the latest.
Look – _A Feast For Crows_ came out in 2005. Don't you think that calling "spoiler" at this point is a little lame? The remake of _King Kong_ came out in 2005, too. Let me warn you, KONG DIES!
Dude, come on, next you're gonna tell us that Santa isn't real, or that Frodo does destroy the ring… or that Dumbledore dies in the sixth book. that shit is harsh.
Anyone participating in a fictional cage match of some big names in the fantasy universe is going to know about Jaime. We're all nerds here who love fantasy, if someone is on here and hasn't read the four GRRM books, they are way behind and need to catch up immediately.
Uh, we're kinda saying the same thing man…
"No one in this tournament was an average character"
Edward Cullen. lol
But I'm pretty sure if those fights had been written by an unbiased source (No offense to anyone) they would have been incredible.
That's all I'm trying to point out with what I'm saying.
Seriously, how does Gemmell's Druss the Legend not get included in this?
This has been discussed quite a bit… there are a number of Malazan characters that would be able to lay waste to pretty much anyone in the competition barring the Godlings (and then there are only a few characters who would)… Karsa would probably be the best though, since he's not so much different than any of the other ultra-powerful swordsmen in the tournament, and he's immune to magic, so he couldn't simply be balefired out of existence.
This has been discussed as well… Although Druss is smarter and far more personable, for fighting purposes, he's essentially diet-Conan… and he doesn't even have anything close to Jaime Lannister's popularity to make up for that fact. I still would have liked to see a Gemmel character in it… but it would have bben hard to pick a popular one… Skillgannon would be one of way too many dual sword bashers in the tourney, and Waylander would be somewhat more original but have much less of a chance, although the gunslinger was a reasonable comparison to him and he did reasonably well… although he obviously had guns. I'd like to see Rage in his peak form in this tourney though, and since he's a gladiator, the cage match would be right up his alley…
When will the final start?
It just started.
My prediction for the final match: Rand Al'thor defeats Drizzt, then Richard Rahl shows up and utterly destroys him because he's a supremely better fighter and magician, smarter, SANE, and understands life in ways Rand never will. The end.
Wow, really..? Look, I am seriously tired of hearing that Rand is insane.. If you have not read the entire series up to the point in which the story is currently at, then do yourself a favor and do not try and act like you know what you are talking about.. You are only making yourself look stupid. So, for anyone that may be interested in reading WoT..
..Now, for every self appointed, "all-knowing" fanboy out there who hasn't read past the half way mark of the series, or even near it, yet seems to know everything about it, here is your lesson…
Where the last book left off.. Write this down now people. You'll need to remember it for later, apparently.. The Gathering Storm, book #12, which was released in 11/2009, the freaking book ends with Rand appearing to REGAIN his SANITY atop of Dragonmount. It's not clearly stated, nor is it EVER put out there that he is completely FLIPPIN WHACKO!! Just that he is GOING MAD! So to you "all-knowing fanboys" (which seems to be a lot of people, even some of those who "fanboyily" worked on all of this..), please do yourself a favor, and like a kit-kat bar, give yourself a frickin' break… Okay, now that the rantings over.. I really loved the whole idea, and you all did a great job putting this whole thing together, even if i did kind of call some of you out just now.. ^_^ LOL.. Deuces.
a couple of fights i would of loved to have seen in this would of been:-
Pug Vs Tomas (both Robert E Fiest)
Tomas vs Jamie Lannister(Robert R R Martin)
oohh what about a tag team match
Pug(fiest) and Tomas(fiest)
Jamie(martin) and Nakor(Fiest)
well who ever wins (sorry i dont know Rand but i'll be buying as many books from the author as soon as i can get to a book shop)
i have to wish Jamie good luck and hope that Tyrion's other 6 fighters are corkers there are so many weird and powerful characters to choose from. i hope the lightning lord makes an appearance *SPOILER* alert if you havent read george r r martin
his ability to be ressurected or the ability to pass that ability on to other people could be the decider. hehe
rand is the one
he will win in the last match
he can defeat anyone out there
I got to say, this whole tournament has left a wide grin on my face, some fights have left me pondering for the rest of the evening, some have made me chuckle aloud and some have left me complaining to my computer-screen and whining aloud, literally.
Nonetheless though, couple of things bothered me either with their absence or presence in this tournament.
So imho, WHAT SHOULD'VE BEEN:
1. More bad guys. I think the only purely antagonistic participants in this tournament was Shrike and Cthulhu, 2 out of 32, pfft! Would've been great to see something like Sauron against Aslan or similiar, a true battle of good and evil where all hell breaks loose and the pure awesome of the fight blows your mind. This leads me to the next case.
2. More dragons. We only got one proper dragon and that was it. Such a let-down that I will never forget it. For a fantasytournament like this I would've wanted to at least have Smaug here, because he is the prime example of what a classical dragon is, giant, clever, wicked and thoroughly nasty. Smaug against just about any of the swordsmen here would already be damn awesome, but what would really make my day would be Temeraire against Smaug. Damn, just… Damn!
3. More obscure and varied characters. The best fights in this tournament imho has been the most ridiculous ones where you have two so completely different characters fighting that it's like watching Groucho Marx wrestle with the pope. At least the Shrike vs. AD was like that and the worst part was that people actually convinced me that AD had a chance. If there would've been more people from scifi-books things could've been really interesting, but instead we got, dare I say, wrong characters that just shouldn't have been in this tournament.
1. Too many mages. And I mean we're not drowning in them, but considering we had 9 wizards/magers/sorcerers, there was only one proper magefight. Also I don't see much reason for couple of them to even be in here, I mean, Hermione Granger, wtf? And no, I don't think many 'casual' fantasy-readers came here because she or Dumbledore were in this tournament, mostly because I don't think there even exists such a thing as 'casual fantasy-reader'. Most of the guys who vote here at least are definately not casual about this whole thing. Besides if there was an author here who should've had more than one character represented here it should've only been Tolkien. Hell, maybe we could've had not only two characters from him, but 3; Gandalf, Sauron and Smaug. Aragorn was way too obvious choice methinks and didn't really suit for this tournament as there's already way more interesting swordsmen around. Especially one.
2. Give Jaime his swordsarm back or put Tyrion in his place. I came here through GRRM's blog and at first I heavily lol'd at the idea of Jaime being so badass he could beat Cthulhu and the co. without even his swordarm, but now I got to say it wasn't that great. You just have to vote for Jaime because if a character has sex with his sister, almost kills a child and all-around is a complete asshole, yet STILL manages to make you cheer for him, he is way too overpowered for this tournament and makes any discussion of who would actually win in a fight completely obsolete. If Tyrion would've been in this tournament at least he could've cheated and plotted his way to the finals and it would've been at least semi-plausible. Also Tyrion is the big star of ASOIAF, if you don't like Jamie until the third book, at least you will like Tyrion in the first book, in the second and in the third and so on.
I really hope there would be a tournament like this with a proper voting system later on, really nice idea this whole thing was.
Also, no matter if Rand wins the finals because I felt like the REAL winner of this whole tournament was Patrick Rothfuss, I wish someone would count how many have commented: "After this write-up, I decided I got to buy NOTW." The Aslan-write-up he did was just so good that even I who haven't read fantasy for a year or so decided to buy it from the internets.
I vote for Rand. Here is my match line up:
Rand. He's taveren, a blademaster and he has balefire.
Vasher with Breath-Nightblood alone would love the chance to kill any kind of threat.
A very pissed off Nynaeve,(she always seems to be in a snit where Rand is concerned anyway.) Matt (taveren). He's great with knives and bombs and always seems to land on his feet. Perrin (taveren), with his pack of wolves. Egwene (because Rand is a woolhead who needs to be put in his place so he can focus on his job). And she can dreamwalk Jaime. Lan just in case the magic gets screwed up. He seems to hold up just fine against magic and non magical threats…and because he is such a good king!
I vote for Rand
The only reason any of these clowns stand a chance is the glaring omission of Sir Samuel Vimes from the competition.
How could you omit Kylar Stern or Durzo Blint from Brent Weeks, Night Angel Trilogy. By far the two most dangerous characters created.
Good post. You make some great points, although for some of them you would end up with a huge field of combatants, and it might actually an entire year to go through it all.
To refine a couple of your suggestions perhaps:
1 – I like having more villains. I suggest putting them into separate brackets, so the final battle will be between the champion hero and the champion villain for the fate of reality.
2 – More dragons leads to the problem of getting too many characters – and especially adding in characters that have a drastic power advantage over human combatants.
3 – Have all the characters operating at their peak performance. Jaime should have both his hands. Rand should have both his hands – but maybe still suffering from channeling sickness, since we don't really see him with his full power not affected by it. Kvothe should have his full capabilities (kind of hard since we don't have his whole story yet, so we don't know everything he can do). Roland should have all his fingers (although he proved extremely capable through this tournament).
4 – Have it be between just the combatants. No more companions or familiars. If the combatant can't cut it on their own, they shouldn't be in the match. This would help cut down on the number of combatants,
5 – Make the write ups indecisive until there is a voting result. First off this will get people coming back to the site to read how the combats actually went. It will also not seem show a bias towards one side (although this did not seem too much a problem, look how Jaime competed, despite being the major underdog at the beginning). Once the voting results are in, post how the fight goes.
6 – Remove the god characters. Rand is not counted in this, because yes, he's powerful, but he's not immortal and he has been trapped and caught before. For the people that say that the Wheel wouldn't let him die, you're wrong, he has been told that he can die just like anyone else, the Wheel would just have to go around again to determine Tarmon Gai'don. I think the results showed pretty quickly that the voters wanted to remove the god characters from the running.
7 – Get more of the authors on board. Look at how many fights were decided by the author write-ups. As fans, we love to hear from our favorite writers, especially when they decide to cut loose and have some non-canon fun with their characters.
I think that's all I have for now.
Some matchups I'd like to see are:
Shea Ohmsford v. Richard Cipher (the Seeker)
Reason: clash between the truth-revealing Sword of Shannara and the Sword of Truth
Berelain sur Paendrag Paeron v. Cersei Lannister
Reason: who is seducing who?
a battle royale between Belgarath, Merlin, Allanon, Dalben, Obi Wan Kenobi, and Zedicus Z'ul Zorander
Reason: find out who is the greatest old man wizard mentor
a battle royale between Gwydion, Aragorn, Lan Mandragoran, and Gary Cooper
Reason: Which is the strongest strong silent type?
The White Witch v. Melisandre
Reason: The Queen of Ice versus the priestess of fire and light.
Hey guys! Since Rand has won the Cage match, Brandon Sanderson has written the official description of how the fight REALLY went!
Johnathan, you mean how the fight went in one of the multiverses.
The title of the article is "How It REALLY Went Down"
If you want to argue about multiverses, go comment on Brandon Sanderson's post, he's the one who chose that title for it.
Anyway, I personally accept this as the definitive version of how the final battle unfolded.
Also: "Jonathan." Why does nobody ever spell it right when it's right in front of them? Ever?
Rand al Thor! Yes!
I a character sorely missing from the list is Gemmell's Skilgannon the Damned. So he has no magic powers, other than the demon possessed Swords of Night and Day. If you've read the books, you know he doesn't need any magic. Would have been nice to have seen him make an appearance.
Oh yes, I definately agree with points 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and I suppose a separate tournament for villains could be interesting, but I have a more neutral stance on that one.
However I don't see how dragons could be too overpowered when you have guys like Rand Al'Thor who is close to a demi-god and guys like Ged who could actually transform into one. It depends too how we perceive these matches as, if it's a literal cagematch, then I understand, but in fantasy dragons are defeated with stealth and cunning as much as they are with brute force, I could imagine Smaug being defeated by Kvothe if he would be challenged into a game of wits or Jamie could just bribe Smaug out of the game.
Also I didn't mean there should be a dragon in every division, just as it's a fantasytournament I thought there would be more than one out of 32 as dragons are very classical bad guys for the whole genre and exist in just about any fantasybook in someway.
But true, I wasn't really thinking about how many characters there would be in the end, I suppose there is always someone left out as there's just simply so many great characters in fantasyliterature.
Otherwise though I think you nailed it.
next year you should really include Raj Ahten from the Runelords
i was supporting jaime lannister. too bad he lost
Thanks for all your great comments, write-ups, and opinions during the cage match! You all made it an unbelievable ride. Thank you!
We've shuttered the comments here, but you should feel free to pop on over to the forums to carry on the discussion.
Once again, from all of us here on Suvudu–a big thank you for hanging out and we hope to see you around the site!