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I'm trying to decide on a road bike. I ride a lot, and I'm doing the Montauk century and probably various other longer rides in the near future. So far, I've been training on a mountain bike/hybrid, but it's time for an upgrade. I want a bike that will be comfortable and reliable. Speed isn't the most important thing, nor is weight (although of course I'd prefer lighter). I do want components that won't give me a hassle though.
I went to my local bike shop (which I love) and was "fitted" for road bikes. I did short test rides on a few bikes that I was told would be good fits for me, and the one that seemed best was the Giant Defy 1, which has an aluminum frame, carbon fork and seat post, and Shimano 105 components. I'm slightly hesitant about getting an aluminum frame because I hear it makes for a less comfortable frame. But the guy at the bike shop says steel frames aren't very common anymore, so looking for a steel bike would reduce my options significantly. Thoughts on steel vs. aluminum frames? Will the carbon fork/seat post cancel absorb enough shock that that having this bike would be similar to having a steel frame? Also, suggestions on bikes with steel frames? My budget is pretty much capped at $1500, and I want decent components, so I realize those are limiting factors.
Well, how fun! I think finding a bike is a lot of fun, and it sounds like you are doing a lot of good stuff to find the right one. From what you wrote it sounds like you will be most happy for a 105 component set (or equivalent). That will offer you a good combo of performance and price. To answer one of your questions, steel frame bikes are not at all common any more for road style bikes, unless you are getting some super cool custom. That being said, you can get a very compliant ride from an aluminum/carbon mix bike. The reason large companies do not use steel anymore for road bikes is its hard to get a steel bike light and attractive on a mass scale. Steel is a great material to use, but it takes the hands of a craftsman to make a bike that can keep up with carbon and aluminum.
I like the Giant Defy 1 you are looking at, I believe it was featured in Bicycling magazine in the last month or two. Sounds like its a lot of bang for your buck. I will offer up 2 more ideas for you to consider. I know you said $1500 is your top so I found this bike, bicycling just rated it well on there website and it looks like it might fit your budget if you find a good deal. Second, consider this bike from Fuji. This bike is on sale at Performance bike a lot for around $1500. I know Fuji is misunderstood, but they make some very good bikes and are now sponsoring a pro team. They have an amazing bike they make for there pro team and that technology is makeing its way down the lines to there lower priced bikes. I know a couple people that ride this bike and its very stiff and high performance. Have fun looking, I hope I was able to offer you some advice you can use. Keep us posted!
In July 2008, I purchased a Giant OCR A1 which is a combo aluminum/carbon fiber frame. Front fork, seat stays and top tube are carbon, bike has all 105 components. I test rode several other brands comparable bikes with 105 components, but the Giant was the best fit for me and I felt the best value for the money. I paid $1300 for the bike. This is my first road bike and I have been very happy with it. After about the first month I did upgrade the saddle, the stock saddle was tolerable, but the new one is an improvement. I now have about 1700 miles on this bike and am very happy with it. I know Giant has changed their line/models so I am not sure which model if any is comparable to my OCR A1. My experience with Giant has been positive and I would recommend this brand to you. Hope this is helpful
Thank you both for your tips! I decided to go for the Giant Defy 1. It's supposed to be ready for me on Thursday ..... I hope I made the right choice! Thanks again
Have fun on your new toy!
I have a Trek aluminum frame, and love it. I was thinking of upgrading the fork and seat post to carbon for a little more shock absorption.
Have you considered a Specialized Roubaix? There are several Roubaix models (check them at Specialzed.com). "List prices" range from $1,900 to $8,500. If I am not mistaken 2009 Roubaix models are all full-carbon frames with "zertz" inserts and carbon seatposts (note: zertz are vibration-absorption inserts). More money will buy higher-grade carbon frame (lighter & stiffer) and components. Roubaix carbon-frame grades go from 6r at lowest price point to 10r on the Roubaix S-Works top of the line. (they also have a carbon 11r but not offered on the Roubaix). A few months ago I asked Specialized customer service and was told each grade you go higher the frame is 150 grams lighter. Even at the lowest price level you will have an entry-level plush bike designed for comfort featuring full-carbon frame and seatpost with Shimano 105. Finally, if you don't mind previous model-year bikes (model-year 2008 or 2007 for example) I suggest you look for a brand new 2008 or 2007 and you will pay much less. Another option is to wait for the launch of the 2010 model year (in July or August ?) and buy a 2009 model at a discounted price. Hope this helps.
The Defy is a good starter. I would suggest a FUJI CCR1 or Team Pro, you can usually find a last years model like I did a month ago. I got a Fuji Team Pro with Dura Ace components for 1,700, you could get into the CCR1 with Ultegra for around your budget. Both of the bikes are full carbon, light, and a really good deal for the money.
Are you open to buying a "new" used bike? If so, check craigslist or other sites. I found a great full carbon bike ('08 Colnago CLX) with DurAce 10 for $1100 with shipping. I had a '06 Trek with carbon fork and seat stay before. Good bike but does not compare to a full carbon ride.
Check out the following sites: http://www.slowtwitch.com/, http://www.roadbikereviews.com/, www.beginnertriathlete.com/
Good luck on your seach for a new bike.
Should have gone with the trek white aluminum 1.2 or 1.5 with the graphite fork. Much better bike than the Giant. But good luck
Why did you poo-poo that guys purchase by making an unsubstantiated claim. Also, you called it a graphite fork?
y u guys ride on hwy? you like us to play foot ball on the road when you got to go work? move over or play in the dirt.
This started as a discussion of ROAD BIKES. Stranger, per usual, gave some good advise. At your price point Aluminum is probably the best deal and 105 is race ready should you want to. Tires and pressure play a big part of the ride quality and the carbon fork will dampen it for you well. Wear nice gloves and padded pants and you will be fine. Have fun and wear sun block which will keep you cooler.
Now to the knucklehead who responded previously. Bicycles are legally entitled to ride on the road and cyclists have been instrumental in the history of this nation and the world in getting roads built in the first place. They are called road bikes by the way. In any case most riders don't ride on highways. We ride on the road and if they are built properly they have enough of a shoulder for you to get by without much of a delay while you are on your way to doing emergency brain surgery or whatever it is that you do that has an impact on the lives of other individuals. If more people rode to work and the roads were constructed to accommodate them traffic would be minimized and you could rev your way to your destination without the burden of the cars in front of you impeding your way. And by the way, your fuel costs would be minimized since the demand would be less. So, write your county road commission or attend a meeting, tell them you think bicyclists should not be at risk from drivers on their cell phones and the roads should have an adequate shoulder as it may already be mandated to build them as such, and then you and everyone else will be better off. Bicyclists aren't inhibiting traffic, we are traffic.
I went with a Trek 1000 in 2004. It may be low end but I just keep upgrading parts as they wear. I am going on 14.,000 miles on the bike. It is comfortable for me, cost wise and fit. Don't get sucked in by all the glitter. Keep your budget in mind. Sizing is very important. And after all "IT'S NOT THE BIKE".
Glad you are happy and riding. In the end that is what it is about. I could run with your comment about it not being the bike but depending on the riding one does a precision built bike built for you rides true and fast. Components that cost more usually last longer as well. Change your chain when it gets strethed, .75 on the checker so you don't wear out the gears and cogs too fast and ride ride ride!
Well said. Thank you.
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Reunions: Sept. 22, 2013
Published: Sunday, September 22, 2013 at 6:01 a.m.
Last Modified: Thursday, September 19, 2013 at 11:02 a.m.
The South Lafourche High School Class of 1973's 40-year reunion is Oct. 5. Classmates should email their mailing addresses and telephone numbers to email@example.com. Please include maiden name.
The Thibodaux High School Class of 1958's 55-year class reunion is 6-11 p.m. Saturday at the Bayou Country Club, 900 Country Club Blvd., Thibodaux. Food and refreshments provided by Grady V's American Bistro. Dress is casual. A class photograph is available. For information, call Joyce Orgeron Duet at 447-2610 or Patsy Clement Vice at 872-6564.
The Terrebonne High School Class of 1969's 45-year class reunion's social is scheduled from 7 p.m. till June 27 at the Terrebonne Parish Sheriff's Office's Rifle Range, 2100 Savanne Road, Houma. The reunion is scheduled from 8 p.m. to midnight June 28 at Ellendale Country Club, 3319 La. 311, Houma. For information, call Mike at 876-2387, Tina at 879-2666, Odette at 879-1690 or Sharon at 873-7508 or email email@example.com.
The Terrebonne High School Class of 1953 is planning a Dutch-treat lunch for 11 a.m. Wednesday at Golden Corral, 1724 Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd., Houma. Call Sybil Roddy McCann at 879-2836 or Barbara Schober at 876-5041.
The H.L. Bourgeois High School Class of 1978's 35-year reunion is scheduled from 7 p.m. to midnight Nov. 30 at the Jolly Inn, 1507 Barrow St., Houma. Bandit will provide live entertainment. Advance tickets cost $40 for singles and $70 for couples. Tickets at the door cost $50 for singles and $80 for couples. Wine, beer, soft drinks, water, food and entertainment included. For information, visit the class's Facebook page under HLB Class of 78 Reunion or call Christy Bellanger Breaux at 226-2954, Sandra Bergeron at 852-8860 or Lynda Fortner Price at 226-4087. Make checks payable to H.L.B. Class of '78, c/o Lynda Price, 701 Eagle Drive, Houma, LA 70364.
Send reunion information before noon on Wednesdays to firstname.lastname@example.com.
Reader comments posted to this article may be published in our print edition. All rights reserved. This copyrighted material may not be re-published without permission. Links are encouraged.

subset: commoncrawl


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As for the setlist last night in Ithaca, at the State Theater (sent to me by a friend, so I assume no responsibility for mistakes):
I: Llama, Bouncing R the R, Divided Sky, Fee*, It's Ice**, My Sweet One, Geulah Papyrus (w/ The Asse Festival), Lizards, Foam, David Bowie***
II: Golgi Apparatus, Squirming Coil, Brother#, Sparkle##, ?????###, Mike's Song, Lawn Boy, ?????###
E1: Memories (a capella) You Won't Steal My Poor Heart Again (?)
E2: Sweet Adeline (a capella)
NOTES: * Trey pulls a boner and sings verse 2 instead of verse 3 -- that's one for you tape collection. ** New song *** Fish fills in with "Dr. Seuss" # Another new song ## Third new song of the evening ### Sorry, but I nor a few tapers knew the titles of these (but I have heard them both before
A mellow crowd, many people not dancing (like maybe it was their first show?) during the first set. Things picked up for the second set--the band was definately into the jams in Mike's Song, as was I.
A sell out scene, i had no problem getting rid of extra tix.
Divided Sky jam was good. Page went nuts on a jam in Squirming coil
Their new disc will be out in January on Electra records (but they did not sign any contracts!). Lawn Boy out of print until MAYBE December (says the official Phish vendor). I bought a Junta tape (still $8) and I am not impressed with the sound quality, seems to have gotten a little hot... it *breathes* and is generally lacking in the mid and high frequency depts.
Ah, one more thing (or two).
Set times: I--1:12 II(incl encores)--1:10 approx.


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Lt. Colonel Dan Hampton, a highly decorated F-16 fighter pilots, shares his story in his book "Viper Pilot: A Memoir of Air Combat," just released this month. In the new age of the UAV drones, people like Hampton may be the last of the aviators who have personally faced air combat.
Hampton, 48, was a member of the elite Wild Weasels, the first planes sent into a conflict, which are recognized as the most dangerous in modern air combat.
On 9/11 Hampton took to the skies and played a crucial role in closing America's airspace, and even personally escorted a Delta flight to the ground. He recounts stories from Iraq of saving U.S. ground soldiers from certain death, of evading heat-seeking missiles that locked on his tail, and of being wounded in a terrorist attack. The Wild Weasels mission was to take out surface-to-air missile sites. Having initiated the 2003 Iraq invasion and bombing Saddam Hussein's suspected hide-out, he writes about his role in the Iraq War, Kosovo conflict and first Gulf War.
"It was time for this story," Hampton said. "No grand designs or philosophical fluff - just an honest view of life and war from one fighter cockpit."
Hampton, who visits the Bookworm of Edwards Thursday evening, took the time to answer a few questions for the Vail Daily.
Vail Daily: What made you want to write this book, Dan?
Dan Hampton: To reveal a bit of what has been done in the past 20 years for our country (not just by me) and to give folks a glimpse into a world that they might not see otherwise.
VD: What was the hardest part about writing the book?
DH: Reliving parts of it. During these incidents, I just reacted. Instinct takes over and you do what you must to survive. Afterwards, however, when you're back on the ground and safe, it all sinks in. Most pilots compartmentalize things like this and the memories are best left alone. Purposely bringing them back out was tough.
VD: What did you receive your Purple Heart for?
DH: Khobar Towers was destroyed on June 25, 1996 by Hezbollah terrorists with a truckload (20,000 pounds) of TNT. Nineteen Americans were killed and thousands, like me, wounded.
VD: Tell me about a time you write about in the book where you were the most scared for your life?
DH: Valley of the Shadow. I was sent down under the clouds to scout out Iraqi troop movements and ended up on top of a Republican Guards Division that was moving out of Baghdad to counterattack. So 15,000 angry Iraqis opened up with everything they had to knock me down. It was a very hairy three minutes ... I used all my countermeasures and had all my towed decoys shot away. I didn't think I'd survive that one.
VD: Tell me about your journey to become a fighter pilot. How did you know that's what you wanted to do?
DH: I didn't know until my second year in college - I wanted to be an architect. Something in me wanted a bigger challenge and the thrill of accomplishing something really difficult.
VD: Is there anything in this book you hesitated to include? If so why?
DH: Anything that sounds self congratulatory - there were other fighter pilots out there, I just happened to write it down. I was uncomfortable 're-living' the Nasiryah and Valley of the Shadow missions .... they were bad.


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By John Pollmann
Waterfowl's keen vision can make life tough for hunters. After years spent studying the habits of American black ducks for Ducks Unlimited, biologist John Coluccy knows a thing or two about wary waterfowl. In this month's feature story, Coluccy shares his tips for staying hidden from these sharp eyes in the skies.
Like most bird species, waterfowl live an aerial life at high speeds, so having an acute sense of vision is a necessity for protection and navigation.
"Their vision is highly developed, with adaptations that allow them to see a color spectrum that we can't," says Coluccy, who serves as Ducks Unlimited's manager of conservation planning for the Great Lakes / Atlantic Region. "They see the same colors that we do, but what they see is much more rich and vivid."
A hen pintail, for instance, relies on her visual capacity during courtship to detect differences in the quality of plumage worn by competing drakes, Coluccy says. That allows her to differentiate between a juvenile and an adult male based on the different shades of brown at the nape of their necks and colors within their wing speculums.
"If she can spot those minute differences in color on another duck, imagine what she can see when approaching a duck blind," says Coluccy. "Little things that may not appear to you or me as concerns while hunting will stick out like a flashlight to a duck or goose."
Coluccy offers the following five tips to help you stay hidden and put more birds in your decoys.
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President Franklin D. Roosevelt signs the Migratory Bird Hunting and Conservation Stamp Act into law.
First duck stamp, designed by Pulitzer-prize winning editorial cartoonist, Jay N. "Ding" Darling, issued.
Prairie drought peaks.


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Boys' Nike N45 Pants
Chilly weather isn't going to stop your active kids from wanting to get outside and play, all they need is comfortable gear to keep them toasty. That's where the Nike N45 Kid' Pants come in. Designed to keep them dry and warm, these pants are perfect for those blustery days when kids want to get out there and play!
Made with advanced Dri-FIT fabric, these pants wick away moisture immediately to keep kids fresh and comfortable as they play. The elastic waistband ensures a snug fit so pants stay put, while the vented hem and mesh lined pockets add plenty of ventilation.
Give your kids the gift of freedom with these Nike N45 Pants.
- FABRIC: Dri-FIT 100% polyester
- FIT: Relaxed
- CARE: Machine wash


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UPDATE: "The Flash" Hasn't Cast Savitar, Says Berlanti
TV, Comic Books
Last week Chris Arrant covered former Savannah College of Art and Design (SCAD) Professor Bob Pendarvis' Kickstarter effort to fund A Girl Called Ana Teaches Kittens How To Draw. In today's email interview, Pendarvis discusses his aim with the book, as well as Sugar Ninjas, the all-female sequential art anthology series aimed at drawing a spotlight on female creators. My thanks to Pendarvis for his time, and Tom Feister for putting me in contact with Pendarvis. His Kickstarter site gives more background on Pendarvis, including that he "created and taught the first comic book illustration classes at the Savannah College of Art & Design, going on to co-found their comics-based BFA and MFA degree programs (along with writer Mark Kneece and artist Bo Hampton)." If you are interested in helping Pendarvis with his Kickstarter effort, please act now–as there are less than 20 days left to meet the $15,000 goal.
Tim O'Shea: How soon after leaving SCAD did you realize you wanted to develop Sugar Ninjas?
Bob Pendarvis: Sugar Ninjas was originally a project I came up with to showcase the amazing variety of female artists in my classes. In the summer of 2009, as my official association with SCAD was coming to an end (on mutually acceptable terms), I decided to expand the concept of the Sugar Ninjas to include not only SCAD students, but also female artists and storytellers from around the world. All material in the book is copyrighted exclusively to the creators and the books are printed at lulu.com, each one priced at printing costs only—I don't make a penny from any copy sold (although I encourage the ninjas to add sketches and charge a few dollars more). Volumes 1 and 2 are available right now, and a revised edition of Volume 1 will be back in early 2012.


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Lois Hull and Lyndle Hull will celebrate their 60th wedding anniversary with a celebration hosted by their family from 2 p.m. to 4 p.m. Sunday, Sept. 1., at Fat Boys in Kinderhook, Ill. They request no gifts.
The couple was married Sept. 4, 1953, in Oakville, Iowa. Their attendants were Evelyn Degen and Robert Keene.
Lois is the daughter of Raymond and Mellie Degen.
Lyndle is the son of Raymond and Nellie Hull.
The Hulls are parents of Marty Hull Sr. (Jerilyn) of Hannibal, Mo., Lance Hull of Grand Prairie, Texas, and the late Kevin Hull.
They have one grandson, Marty Hull Jr. (Audra); and three great-grandchildren, Allison, McKenna and Mason.
Lyndell is retired from Motorala and farming.
Lois is retired from Motorola and CNA.
Location, ST | website.com


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This is an excerpt from EERE Network News, a weekly electronic newsletter.
December 19, 2007
Nellis Air Force Base Hosts the Largest U.S. Solar PV System
The largest solar photovoltaic (PV) system in both the United States and in North America has been installed at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada. The 14-megawatt solar power system will provide about a quarter of the electricity needs of the base, which is located northeast of Las Vegas. SunPower Corporation designed and built the power plant using solar panels mounted on a single-axis tracking system that follows the sun throughout the day, producing up to 30% more electricity than typical fixed-position solar panels. MMA Renewable Ventures, LLC financed the plant and will operate it, selling the power to Nellis Air Force Base at a guaranteed fixed rate for the next 20 years. Nevada Power Company is also supporting the project by buying all the Renewable Energy Credits generated by the solar array, thereby helping the utility to meet its renewable energy requirements. Located on 140 acres of land at the western edge of the base, the PV system comprises 72,000 solar panels. See the SunPower press release.


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Five Eagle County entities, one state agency, an arm of the federal government and a local private landowner have brought to fruition a complex land exchange that will permanently protect 1,549 acres of open space in Avon and Edwards.
On Nov. 6, the U.S. Forest Service was the final of four signatories to the Eagle Valley Land Exchange Agreement, following approval by Eagle County, the Colorado State Land Board and the Upper Eagle Regional Water Authority (UERWA). Additional partners in the deal include the Town of Avon, the Nottingham family, Eagle River Water and Sanitation District (ERWSD) and the Eagle Valley Land Trust.
The conservation project has been years in the making and will result in the permanent protection of five properties, including:
• The 478-acre West Avon Parcel will be owned and managed as open space by the Town of Avon.
• Approximately 80 acres of the Avon Village parcel, north of Interstate 70 near Post Boulevard, will be owned and managed as open space by the Town of Avon.
• The 640-acre Colorado State Land Board property north of Berry Creek will be added to the White River National Forest.
• 184 acres of private land on the Eagle's Nest Wilderness boundary will be added to the White River National Forest.
• The 160-acre Cordillera L will become Eagle County Open Space.
Also, several smaller water tank properties will be conveyed to UERWA and ERWSD, an additional public benefit from the Eagle Valley Land Exchange.
To equalize the value of land changing hands, cash is required to complete the deal. The town of Avon will contribute $1 million and an additional $350,000 will be provided by UERWA and ERWSD. The majority of the funding, or $5.3 million, will come from Eagle County's Open Space Fund. Approval of the Eagle Valley Land Exchange comes almost 10 years to the day that Eagle County voters approved the dedicated Open Space Tax, without which officials say the exchange would not have been possible.-
"When considering that the deal will protect more than 1,500 acres in the heart of the valley for less than $3,500 per acre, this partnership represents a huge conservation accomplishment," said Eagle County Commissioner Peter Runyon.
The two properties that will be transferred to the White River National Forest had long been identified as parcels the Forest Service wished to acquire. "We are thrilled to complete the land exchange," said Eagle/Holy Cross District Ranger Dave Neely. "It represents one of the most significant conservation legacy acts in Eagle Valley - it is good for the land and good for our communities."
The Eagle Valley Land Trust will hold conservation easements to ensure permanent protection of the open space parcels obtained through the exchange. "Every single parcel included in this land exchange provides significant and immediate public benefit for today and forever. This important agreement secures the expansion of local water storage and creates valley floor gateways to over 200,000 acres of public land," said Kara Heide, Executive Director of the Eagle Valley Land Trust. "This land exchange is a huge win for both local residents and guests."
Final closing on the deal is scheduled to occur in 2013. A map showing the Eagle Valley Land Exchange parcels is available at www.eaglecounty.us.


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Area schools set to begin spring sports seasons
Published: Thursday, January 31, 2013 at 3:15 a.m.
Last Modified: Friday, February 1, 2013 at 12:26 a.m.
Believe it or not, it's time for college baseball.
Senior outfielder Gaither Bumgardner of USC Upstate on Thursday was named Atlantic Sun Conference preseason baseball player of the year.
Bumgardner, from Great Falls High School, batted .376 last season and had an on-base percentage of .439, fifth-best in the league. In addition, relief pitcher Chad Sobotka also made the preseason all-conference team after recording 12 saves with a 1.72 ERA in 2012.
USC Upstate was picked in a preseason poll of coaches to finish third, behind Florida Gulf Coast and Mercer.
Limestone College opens its season today against Alabama-Huntsville in St. Augustine, Fla., where the Saints will play four games. Kaleb Earls from Blacksburg High School will get the first start on the mound.
Limestone will open its home schedule Feb. 9 in a doubleheader against Mars Hill, the first of nine straight games at home.
The Saints also will feature shortstop Michael Hughey (Gaffney High School), who on Thursday was named to the National Collegiate Baseball Writers Association preseason All-Southeast team. He batted .389 last season.
Limestone is coming off a disappointing 2012 season, in which the Saints were picked second in the Conference Carolinas preseason poll but went 17-32 overall and just 7-19 in league play. The Saints were picked for sixth this season.
Mount Olive is once again the favorite, getting seven of the nine votes by head coaches. Belmont Abbey was tabbed for second, King College third, Erskine fourth and newcomer North Greenville, which got a first-place vote, was predicted for fifth place. The bottom three are Pfeiffer, Coker and Barton, respectively.
Spartanburg Methodist, ranked No. 13 nationally in the NJCAA preseason poll, opens next Wednesday at home with a doubleheader against Georgia Perimeter.
The Pioneers will then have two more games on Feb. 9 against Surry Community College and Feb. 10 against the Limestone junior varsity squad before heading to a tournament in Alabama. SMC went 45-18 last season and made the junior college World Series.
Wofford and USC Upstate will open a little later, per NCAA Division I rules. They only began practicing last weekend.
The Terriers play their first game Feb. 15 at home against Georgetown. They were 22-32, 9-21 in the Southern Conference last season.
USC Upstate opens that same day at home against Niagara and will play host to Kentucky on Feb. 16. The Spartans will have 13 of their first 16 games at home before playing March 12 at South Carolina. They were 33-20, 16-10 in the Atlantic Sun last season, improving their win total by 14 games.
USC Upstate will open its season with a couple of tournaments at home.
The Spartans (29-13, 12-6 A-Sun last season) start Feb. 9 in the Subway Upstate Classic, which also will feature Western Carolina, North Carolina Central and Missouri-Kansas City. The following weekend will be the Firehouse Subs Spartan Invitational with George Mason, Winthrop, Samford and George Washington.
Limestone will head into its season without longtime head coach Jimmy Martin, who will miss the entire year as he recovers from health issues. Associate head coach Amy Yates will take over in the meantime.
The Saints open Feb. 9 in a doubleheader at Newberry and won't be home until hosting a tournament beginning on Feb. 22. They were 26-29 last season, going 13-9 in the Conference Carolinas.
Limestone's men have a tough test in the home opener Feb. 23 against defending national champion Dowling, which beat the Saints by a single point in last season's Division II title game.
The Saints have a home scrimmage Feb. 9 against Washington and Lee, then open the season Feb. 15 at the University of Tampa. They were 17-2 last season, went 5-0 in the Conference Carolinas and won the tournament as well.
The Limestone women, who also made the NCAA tournament last season, will open Feb. 12 at Catawba. They went 17-2, 6-0 in league play and then lost, 11-7, to West Chester in the national quarterfinals.
Converse will host Limestone on Feb. 15 after beginning the season three days earlier at home against Shorter University. Converse has a new coach, Ryan Weiss, who came from Division III Marywood in Scranton, Pa., and takes over a team that went 5-10 last season, 1-5 in the conference.
Reader comments posted to this article may be published in our print edition. All rights reserved. This copyrighted material may not be re-published without permission. Links are encouraged.


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- Tea Pouches
- Loose Tea
- Iced Tea
- Teaware
- Gifts
- Sale
- Why Mighty Leaf?
Verbena Mint Organic
Verbena Mint Organic herbal tea, made of organic mint and verbena, produces a feeling of renewal - it overcomes you with soft citrus notes of verbena leaves balanced with a beautiful hint of mint. An excellent late afternoon herbal tea to sip while cozying up with your favorite book or caffeine-free after dinner drink.
Loose tea in 4 oz. bag
Organic verbena leaf, organic peppermint
Herbs and Fruit
Dried mint, verbena
Mint and Citrus
Clear, golden yellow liquor
Light and refreshing body with hints of lemon and mint
Preparing the perfect cup of tea is a process to be savored. Watch how the traditional elements harmoniously come together to make the perfect cup and enjoy the liberation of pure tea goodness.
This is what we call the Mighty Leaf signature multi-sensory ("sensory melange") tea experience. Come share with us and learn how to get infused.
The quality of tea is affected by the quality of water used to prepare it. Using filtered or bottled water is best. If possible, avoid brewing tea with tap, distilled or mineral water. Never over-boil water, as it results in flat-tasting tea.
1) Heat filtered or bottled water to a rolling boil or to 205 F. 2) While the water is heating pour hot water into your teapot and cups, let sit and then drain completely. A warm teapot will maintain the requisite temperature for superior tasting tea.
Whole Leaf Tea
Prepare Mighty Leaf teas using a teapot, paper tea sachet, infuser or traditional brewing methods. Use one rounded tablespoon of Verbena Mint Organic per 12 ounces or cup of water.
Infusion Time
Pour boiling water over tea leaves. Keep teapot covered to retain heat. Time steeping carefully and infuse for 5 - 7 minutes.
Savor the Leaf
Sip your cup and rediscover the pleasure of the way tea was naturally meant to be. This is the magic of Mighty Leaf.
France, Morocco
Health Benefits
Verbena (Verbena officinalis)
Known for its restorative affects, the herb aids digestion and helps relieve nervous tension. Chinese herbalists often prescribe its use for remedying headaches and migraines.
Peppermint (Mentha piperita)
Peppermint promotes healthy digestion and aids in soothing indigestion. The herb also acts as a calming agent and aids in relieving muscle spasms and pain. Research has shown, too, that peppermint's volatile oils are antibacterial.
Menthol, an element of the oil, provides pain relief when applied to the skin and muscles. Get a dose of aromatherapy too, as the scent promotes calm and quiet.
Relax and renew with Verbena Mint Organic after a long day or curl up with your favorite book and a cup. Pairs well with buttery pastries and chocolates.
Subscribe and save 5% with Regular Tea Rituals, our Auto-Delivery Program. Details
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text:
The Sunwise mission statement is simple; 'To create high quality, innovative British designed eyewear for everyone, wherever you play'. Excellent performance at even better price points mark out Sunwise sunglasses as a great performance eyewear choice.
The Sunwise Waterloo GS offers highly efficient light-reacting polarised protective lenses with vivid colour contrast. With protection for stronger sunlight and the benefit of anti-fog the wearer will benefit from optimum visual protection and clear vision.
The photochromatic lenses change progressively when responding to the strength of sunlight (UV) from medium to strong and back again, enhancing visual performance in varying light-changing conditions. Wider lens coverage provides further protection for your eyes against sunlight, wind, sand and flying objects.
Great for all weather and environments with multi- reflected sunlight from surfaces such as snow, water and concrete.
Key Features:
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Please allow 10 working days from dispatch of your order before notifying us of any late deliveries.
It may be advisable to check with your neighbors to see if your delivery has been left with them, check any places it could be left such as: garage, porch, or behind garbage cans if it was too big to fit through your mailbox. Contact your local post office to see if the item has been returned to the depot as undelivered and awaiting collection.
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DeFeet Woolie Boolie Sheep 2 4 Inch Cuff Socks - White
Castelli Velo Windbreaker Gilet - Yellow
Castelli Women's Troppo Shoe Covers - Grey/Black
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HUDSONVILLE, Mich. (AP) -- It now appears there will be no debates between Democratic U.S. Sen. Debbie Stabenow and Republican challenger Pete Hoekstra.
Stabenow's campaign said Thursday it's giving up on arranging debates because Hoekstra refuses to accept an arrangement that has been used in all of Michigan's Senate races since 1996. It included two debates broadcast on public television -- one before the Detroit Economic Club and the other at Grand Valley State University.
Hoekstra wanted as many as six debates that would be shown over network television.
His campaign said Thursday that Hoekstra was willing to participate in both of the traditional debates plus others but Stabenow refused to set terms. Hoekstra said Stabenow was afraid to defend her record, while Stabenow's spokesman said Hoekstra was interested only in making political attacks.


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The Count of Canon La Gaffeliere
Post by Eddie Wolowski | April 4th, 2012
My invitation to a tasting and dinner with Count Stephan von Neipperg at Canon La Gaffeliere was a sort of homecoming for me.
For the past decade, I've been a huge fan of the Count's wines, especially Chateau d'Aiguilhe. The success of d'Aiguilhe is credited with putting Cotes de Castillon on the map, and indeed the wine drinks like its St. Emilion neighbors. Its beautiful, distinctive nose alone would give it away in any blind tasting lineup and it always displays inky black fruit, followed by a lifted mineral quality towards the finish. A big wine for the buck, it was my go-to bottle when I was a struggling artist on a limited budget.
I first met Count Stephan von Neipperg roughly four years ago, at a tasting in New York. Then, I was just a fan of Bordeaux, and I found myself confronted with a perilous lack of spittoons. As I tried to find one, I noticed a friendly gentleman with a moustache, a bright orange sweater tied over his shoulders, holding an instantly recognizable bottle. I blurted something that, by that point in the evening, bore only distant linguistic similarity to "d'Aiguilhe?!" Count Stephan replied animatedly, "So, you know d'Aiguilhe?" The bottle turned out to be his similarly labeled Canon La Gaffeliere, and served as a wonderful introduction to Neipperg's other wines. We shared a lively conversation, and despite my state, he extended an invitation to tour d'Aiguilhe. (more…)


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More than 100 people were on hand in Kingston to pay tribute to veterans ranging from World War II to Operation Iraqi Freedom.
One of the speakers was Dr. Pat Powell, a World War II vet who was twice shot down in Europe and was held captive in Germany.
Nearby in Ardmore, the Veterans Center was the cornerstone for a Carter County observance. Local Boy Scouts and the Davis High School band also helped out. Guest speakers included Oklahoma Cabinet Secretary Norman Lamb.
The Grayson County Veteran Observance Ceremony is a long tradition in Sherman. Tuesday they laid a wreath on the war memorial at Fairview Park in remembrance of those who gave their lives fighting for our freedom. They also honored 80 local vets and prayed for those still fighting overseas.
Finally, we saw Veterans Day through the eyes of our future generations. Students at Fairview Elementary in Sherman learned what it means to be a veteran. While many of the children have relatives who are in the military, school officials thought Tuesday was the perfect day to teach these youngsters the history of Veterans Day. The students also recited the Pledge of Allegiance and had a moment of silence.
kxii.com Extended Web Coverage
Origins of Veterans Day
Source: www.vfw.org contributed to this report.


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Montana ranks third in duck production in the lower 48 states. When the glaciers melted, they left millions of natural depressions—these are the prairie potholes. Just fill these potholes with snowmelt and rainfall, mix with Montana sunshine and the ducks will come.
For many ducks, Montana lies at the northern end of the annual migration route that takes ducks thousands of miles through the food-rich interior of the United States to the wetlands of the Mississippi Alluvial Valley, Gulf Coast and Central Valley of California. Unfortunately, nearly one-half of Montana's wetlands have been drained or filled, reducing the capacity of the region to attract and sustain breeding ducks. An immediate threat is the continuing loss of grassland nesting habitat. Less grass means fewer nest sites that are safe from predators and a mix of predatory mammals that are decidedly "duck unfriendly."
Fortunately, our conservation investments are paying off. DU has restored, enhanced and protected 77,659 acres in the state. Most of Montana's wildlife refuges, waterfowl production areas and state wildlife management areas have felt the helping hand of a DU project. DU continues to innovate with land purchases that protect critical habitats, and conservation easements that enable our conservation partners and us to sustain habitat cost effectively while maintaining it in private ownership. Montana is part of the Preserve Our Prairies and the Peaks to Prairies initiatives. This vital work is only possible because of your involvement with Ducks Unlimited.
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President Franklin D. Roosevelt signs the Migratory Bird Hunting and Conservation Stamp Act into law.
First duck stamp, designed by Pulitzer-prize winning editorial cartoonist, Jay N. "Ding" Darling, issued.
Prairie drought peaks.


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NEW: For a prettier blog interface, see the Wordpress version!
Headlines for Monday:
|@0730 Take the earliest bus out to IBM so that I can work on my research
|@1500-1600 Conference call about Web 2.0: E-Mail from Jennifer Nolan
1. Testing signature: 01:22
Changing "Technology evangelist wannabe" to "Storyteller, technology evangelist, geek". Is that a more accurate or effective description? =)
Sacha Chua <[email protected]> - http://sacha.sachachua.com/ Storyteller, technology evangelist, geek University of Toronto - IBM Center for Advanced Studies, Toronto Into social bookmarking, blogging, wikis, and Enterprise 2.0
Random Japanese sentence: 「いいえ、ぼくです!、ぼくです!、ぼくです!」百匹のねこ、千匹のねこ、百万匹、一億、一兆匹のねこがいいました。どのねこも自分が一番美しいとおもっていたのです。 No, I am! I am! I am! Cried hundreds and thousands and millions and billions and trillions of voices, for each cat thought itself the prettiest. [M]
2. Nomad: 02:20
I was supposed to be asleep some two hours ago, but I just wanted to blog about one of the interesting people I met today. =)
Jacob Appelbaum's business card doesn't have anything but his name and a stylized photograph of an orchid. That's okay, because he's findable on the Net. He's on LJ, too. Reading his blog, I wish I'd gotten to know him more while he was in Toronto.
I want to walk through Trinity Bellwoods and spin fire in the large gully on a warm summers night.
Poi-ster! =) I'm glad I brought my poi to Pedestrian Sunday...
He's almost a nomad, a globetrotting geek. One of the coolest things about I.T. is that you can work from anywhere. This means, however, that it can be hard to find a place to call home. And it's hard to form ties, too.
Jake's moving to San Francisco soon, which is a great place and one of the cities I wouldn't mind getting to know inside out. Still, he wishes he could stay.
I am also between places. My situation is slightly different, but I can still relate. It doesn't make me feel as bad as it used to, but still...
I enjoy the vibe here, and I'd love to learn as much as I can from it. If I can serve as a bridge between here and the Philippines, all the better. And goodness knows how glad I am to be able to walk in a park or hang out with friends late at night or get around on my own without driving.
I wish I had the ability to wander as he does: to travel from place to place and get to know different people, to breathe a place in and know it inside out. Then I want to get to know one place really, really well... and then I want to bridge wherever that is and the country that still needs me.
Having to apply for visas everywhere makes Plan A difficult, though. Oh well, I'll think of Plan B. =)
Someday I'll need a home, but maybe I can get away with not having one just yet.
On Technorati: reflection, place
Random Japanese sentence: そのねこを怒らすとひっかくよ。 The cat will scratch if you provoke.
3. Gingerly: 18:02
Every nerve in my skin is awake. Perhaps I should've chosen to numb them with a painkiller and risk the drowsiness, than be painfully awake and aware all day?
I'm going to sleep now.
Random Japanese sentence: イヌとは対照的に、ネコはごく最近になって飼いならされたものである。 In contrast to the dog, the cat has become domesticated only in recent times.
4. Gingerly: 18:02
w Every nerve in my skin is awake. Perhaps I should've chosen to numb them with a painkiller and risk the drowsiness, than be painfully awake and aware all day?
I'm going to sleep now.
Random Japanese sentence: イヌとは対照的に、ネコはごく最近になって飼いならされたものである。 In contrast to the dog, the cat has become domesticated only in recent times.
E-mail sent
- Anna Malandrino: Re: How are you?
- Julie Waterhouse: Re: meeting this Friday
- William Chua: Re: sachawiki: 2006.06.25
- John Sullivan: Re: RMS in Manila
- Ian Garmaise: Re: Hi there!
- Ian Garmaise: Re: Hi there!
- Calum Tsang: Re: Fwd: 7/2 - bubble battle + 7/7 flight of fancy
- Tom: Re: sachawiki: 2006.06.26
- gnus://nnir:((query . "mesh AND volunteer"))/<[email protected]>
- Gabriel Mansour: Re: Fwd: 7/2 - bubble battle + 7/7 flight of fancy
- Calum Tsang: Re: Fwd: 7/2 - bubble battle + 7/7 flight of fancy
- Dave Brown: Fireworks fan - 1995 yen!
- Dave Brown: Nissin fireworks fan
- Stephen Perelgut: egosurf.org
- Francis Ocoma: Saw you on egosurf
- Ian Garmaise, Simon Rowland: Hi there!
- Carole St. Laurent: Whole bunch of books
- Leigh Honeywell: Nice chatting with you!
- Mia Levine: Have fun this weekend!
- Carole St. Laurent: Nice chatting with you earlier!
- Alvin Chin: Food community blogs?
- Jennifer Schachter: Hey! =)
- Beth Macdonell: Pleasure meeting you at Pedestrian Sunday!
- grantt: Poi and diabolo
- Julie Waterhouse: Re: meeting this Friday
- Gabriel Mansour: Re: standards evangelist
- Andrea Wiggins: Re: Call for Papers/Participation (fwd)
I'd love to hear about any questions, comments, suggestions or links that you might have. Your comments will not be posted on this website immediately, but will be e-mailed to me first. You can use this form to get in touch with me, or e-mail me at [email protected] .


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The history of gas prices
POSTED: 05:06 PM MDT May 10, 2011 UPDATED: 08:18 AM MST Dec 08, 2014
As gas prices continue to drop, take a look back at what we have paid for a gallon of regular gas over the years. Click here to find out more.
The views expressed are not those of this company or its affiliated companies. Please note by clicking on "Post" you acknowledge that you have read the Terms Of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms.blog comments powered by Disqus


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Robot-Assisted Urologic Procedures
A doctor guides robotic arms to do urologic surgery. This is done through several tiny keyhole incisions.
Male Genital and Urinary Systems
Reasons for Procedure
Examples of urologic surgeries that have been successfully done using this technique include:
- Prostatectomy —to remove part or all of a prostate gland found to contain prostate cancer
- Pyeloplasty —to repair an abnormality of the kidney and nearby ureter, which is a tube that leads from the kidney to the bladder
- Cystectomy —to remove all or part of the bladder to treat bladder cancer
- Nephrectomy —to remove all or part of the kidney because of kidney cancer, kidney stones, or kidney disease
- Ureteral reimplantation—to disconnect and reinsert the ureter from the bladder to keep urine from flowing backwards from the bladder into the kidneys
- Procedures requiring fine dissection and suturing such as reconnection of the ureter
Compared to more traditional procedures, robotic-assisted surgery may result in:
- Less scarring
- Reduced recovery times
- Less risk of infection
- Less blood loss
- Reduced trauma to the body
- Shorter hospital stay
- Faster recovery
Possible Complications
Problems from the procedure are rare, but all procedures have some risk. Your doctor will review potential problems, like:
- Damage to nearby organs or structures
- Infection
- Bleeding
- Anesthesia-related problems
- The need to switch to traditional surgical methods such as traditional laparoscopic or open surgery
Some factors that may increase the risk of complications include:
- Pre-existing heart or lung condition
- Increased age
- Diabetes
- Obesity
- Smoking
- Excessive alcohol intake
- Use of certain medications
Be sure to discuss these risks with your doctor before the procedure.
What to Expect
Prior to Procedure
Depending on the reason for your surgery, your doctor may do the following:
- Physical exam
- Blood tests and urine tests
- Electrocardiogram (EKG)
- Intravenous pyelogram (IVP)
- Retrograde pyelogram
- X-ray of kidneys, ureter, bladder (KUB)
- Ultrasound
- CT scan
- MRI scan
- Cystoscopy
Leading up to the procedure:
- Talk to your doctor about your medications. You may be asked to stop taking some medications up to one week before the procedure.
- Take antibiotics if instructed.
- Follow a special diet if instructed.
- Shower the night before using antibacterial soap if instructed.
- Arrange for someone to drive you home from the hospital. Also, have someone to help you at home.
- Eat a light meal the night before. Do not eat or drink anything after midnight.
General anesthesia will be used. It will block any pain and keep you asleep through the surgery.
Description of the Procedure
Several small keyhole incisions will be made in the abdomen. Carbon dioxide gas will be passed into the area. This will make it easier for internal structures to be viewed. A small camera, called an endoscope will be passed through one of the incisions. The camera will light, magnify, and project the structures onto a video screen. The camera will be attached to one of the robotic arms. The other arms will hold instruments for grasping, cutting, dissecting, and suturing; for example:
- Forceps
- Scissors
- Dissectors
- Scalpels
Instrument Used in Procedure
While sitting at a console near the operating table, the doctor will use lenses to look at a magnified 3D image of the inside of the body. Another doctor will stay by the table to adjust the camera and tools. The robotic arms and tools will be guided with joystick-like controls and foot pedals. After the tools are removed, sutures or staples will be used to close the surgical area.
Will It Hurt?
Anesthesia will prevent pain during surgery. Pain and discomfort after the procedure can be managed with medications. You may also feel discomfort from the gas used during the procedure. This can last up to 3 days.
Post-procedure Care
When you return home, do the following to help ensure a smooth recovery:
- For some procedures, a urine catheter will be left in place for a while. You will be instructed on how to care for this.
- While resting, keep your legs elevated. Move your legs to avoid blood clots.
- Wash the incisions with mild soap and water.
- Drink plenty of fluids. This will help to clear your bladder.
- Limit specific activities until you have recovered.
Total recovery usually takes about 3-6 weeks.
Call Your Doctor
It is important for you to monitor your recovery after you leave the hospital. Alert your doctor to any problems right away. If any of the following occur, call your doctor:
- Catheter stops draining or falls out (if you had a catheter placed)
- Difficulty urinating
- Heavy bleeding or clots in the urine
- Pain, burning, urgency, or increased frequency of urination
- Signs of infection, including fever and chills
- Redness, swelling, increasing pain, excessive bleeding, or discharge from an incision site
- Abdominal swelling or pain
- Constipation, nausea, vomiting, or diarrhea
- Pain and/or swelling in your feet, calves, or legs
- New or worsening symptoms
If you think you have an emergency, call for medical help right away.
National Kidney and Urologic Diseases Information Clearinghouse
Urology Care Foundation
Canadian Urological Association
The Kidney Foundation of Canada
Bladder cancer—robot-assisted laparoscopic radical or simple cystectomy. University of Chicago website. Available at: http://www.ucurology.org/procedures/laparoscopic-surgery/__bladder-cancer--robot-assisted-laparoscopic-radical-or-simple-cystectomy. Accessed July 25, 2013.
Carmack AJ, Siddiq FM, et al. Novel use of da Vinci Robotic Surgical System: Removal of seminal vesicle cyst in previously dissected pelvis. Urology. 2006;67(1):199.
Megaureter. Boston Children's Hospital website. Available at: http://www.childrenshospital.org/conditions-and-treatments/conditions/megaureter/overview. Accessed July 25, 2013.
Minimally invasive procedures. Emory Healthcare website. Available at: http://www.emoryhealthcare.org/urology/treatment-services/minimally-invasive.html. Accessed July 25, 2013.
Passerotti CC, Diamond DA, et al. Robot-assisted laparoscopic ureteroureterostomy: description of technique. J Endourol. 2008;22:581-584.
Robot-assisted laparoscopic radical prostatectomy. Johns Hopkins Medicine website. Available at: http://urology.jhu.edu/MIS/roboticRRP.php. Accessed July 25, 2013.
Robotic dismembered pyeloplasty. Cleveland Clinic website. Available at: http://my.clevelandclinic.org/services/urology-kidney/treatments-procedures/robotic-dismembered-pyeloplasty. Accessed July 25, 2013.
Takacs EB, Kobashi KC. Minimally invasive treatment of stress urinary incontinence and vaginal prolapse. Urologic Clinics of North America. 2008;35(3):467-476.
Last reviewed February 2015 by Michael Woods, MD
Please be aware that this information is provided to supplement the care provided by your physician. It is neither intended nor implied to be a substitute for professional medical advice. CALL YOUR HEALTHCARE PROVIDER IMMEDIATELY IF YOU THINK YOU MAY HAVE A MEDICAL EMERGENCY. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider prior to starting any new treatment or with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition.


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Keeping Kids in School
Educating at-risk students in W.Va.
January 14, 2013
It has been suggested West Virginia should raise the age limit for compulsory school attendance. It now is 16 years of age; one recommendation is to increase that to 18....
Why will nobody address the completely broken system? Why not address how our nations spends way more per student and gets way less? Why not address that it's almost impossible to get rid of horrible system employees and that it's almost impossible to discipline horrible trouble makers in the classrooms? The main trouble is not money, not time, it's the complete and total failure of the system to be able to correct the problems with the people (employees/teachers/students).
0 Agrees | 1 Disagrees | Report Abuse »
I agree that college graduates are having a tough time but the mindset has really changed in the past 30 years with regard to government benefits.Getting disability is actually a lifetime goal for a significant number of our population.They actually take pride in "achieving it"
3 Agrees | 0 Disagrees | Report Abuse »
Regrettably MrAlex is correct.
Once at-risk student drops out of school the state should issue them a shovel, a mop, a broom and a life long supply of gloves. Because that's all tools they'll need for the rest of their life. That is unless we continue to provide benefits which reward them for doing nothing.
5 Agrees | 3 Disagrees | Report Abuse »
Showing 3 of 3 comments


text:
Following people on Twitter
How to follow on the web:
- Click on a username or navigate to a user's profile. (Trying to find a particular user? Read this article for instructions on how to find them.)
- Click the Follow button when you see it next to a user's profile photo or on a user's profile page.
- You can also click the Follow button next to any of your Who to follow suggestions, next to user search results, or anywhere else you see the Follow button on the web.
How to follow via SMS/text message:
- Send a text with the words Follow [username] in an SMS (text message) to Twitter to start following someone from your mobile phone. For example, text Follow jymminie to your Twitter short or long code.
- You will receive a confirmation text letting you know you are now following that user.
- Unsure of your short or long code? This article provides more information.
How to follow on mobile web (mobile.twitter.com):
- In your mobile web browser, go to http://mobile.twitter.com
- Navigate to a user's profile. If you know an account's username, type it in like this: http://mobile.twitter.com/username to follow @Username.
- Click the Follow button, just as you would on the regular website.
How to follow via an app:
- Open your mobile application.
- Navigate to a user's profile or search for a user to follow.
- Click or tap Follow on their profile page.
Having trouble?
Our troubleshooting pages for following issues have answers to common problems.


text:
- Home
- Books & More
- Events & Activities
- Learning
- Research Resources
- About the Library
- Giving
- Kids
- Teens
Jonathan Steinberg - Bismarck: A Life
Thursday, November 29, 2012
6:30pm @ Central Library
In the late 19th century statesman Otto von Bismarck unified Germany while embodying everything brutal and ruthless about Prussian culture. Biographer Jonathan Steinberg allows Bismarck's friends and foes to tell the story of this complex giant: a hypochondriac with the constitution of an ox and a brutal tyrant who could easily shed tears.
Steinberg is the Walter H. Annenberg Professor of Modern European History at the University of Pennsylvania.
The event is co-sponsored by Adam Starr, the Lawrence D. Starr Family Foundation, and The University of Pennsylvania's Alumni Club.


text: Working in what was primarily a men's industry, Ramona Fradon drew comics for DC in the 1950s and 1960s, with a memorable run on Aquaman. She also co-created Metamorpho. After a hiatus in the late 1960s, she returned to DC to draw such titles as Plastic Man. She left DC in 1980 to bring her distinctive style the Brenda Starr newspaper strip, which she continued to draw until her retirement in 1995. Inducted 2006


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Answer: As dumb as necessary.
Let's rephrase: How technically sophisticated should GNU/Linux users have to be? How knowledgeable should any computer user have to be? The answer to that, of course, ranges from "very" to "not very." We need to get past the name-calling of clueless newbie and sneering elitist, and understand that there are going to be varying levels of ability in any community, including the one made up of people interested in using free software. From there, I suggest it is critically important that we expand the size of the free software community. That means dealing with more "dumb" people.
I've been thinking about this in the aftermath of Steve Goodwin's post last week and the resulting discussion. The commenters take up familiar battle positions. Newbies suck because they can't figure it out and can't be bothered to learn how to figure it out. GNU/Linux users suck because they are snobs and the system is hard to use and the combination of the two is why we'll never take over the desktop.
I see dumb people. They're everywhere. They walk around like everyone else. They don't even know they're dumb.
"Dumb" is an inflammatory label, obviously. What we really have are inexperienced people trying to use something new and unfamiliar. I like to think so, because I'm in that group. I may be starting out with slightly more knowledge of Unix-type operating systems, and I may have better skills at searching and trying to find simple answers than some people, but I still get stumped sometimes with asking the right question, or with composing the right search query.
I have empathy for people who struggle at an even more basic level, because I know what it's like to not understand things. I've worked with people whose skills are so far ahead of mine that I get the sense of what it must be like for people lower down on the ladder (if I can be so arrogant to place myself higher than the lowest rung). Yet still, these people are interested in trying GNU/Linux for various reasons. This is great!
What should we do?
When they struggle, we can point out that Windows isn't necessarily so much easier to use. That it just happens to come installed on most computers so that more people are familiar with it, and since it's so widespread, the hardware vendors support it better. Well: duh. That doesn't help get us to our goal: more widespread use of free software. It just tells us we have hard work ahead of us to recruit more free software users and help them figure it out.
Our job isn't so much to explain why Windows continues to dominate, but instead is to break that dominance by getting more people to value freedom and use free software. In order to do that, we have to make it easier for people to switch. We don't want to offer excuses.
We do need to understand why Windows holds the position it does, however. Lock-in is one reason, and sure, Microsoft plays dirty tricks. But I think we also have to acknowledge that Windows is easier to use in many ways. All those useability tests that Microsoft conducts actually have some value and lead to improvements.
It would be helpful if some of the people who use _far superior and more manly_ distros would stop tearing apart the efforts of those working hard to bring in new recruits by offering a "friendlier" user experience.
Efforts are being made to create easier-to-use GNU/Linux distributions, and from my experiments with one of them, Ubuntu, things are going well. It would be helpful if some of the people who use far superior and more manly distros would stop tearing apart the efforts of those working hard to bring in new recruits by offering a "friendlier" user experience. Likewise it would be helpful if people didn't tear down anyone trying to learn something new and potentially enlist in our ranks. Scathing condemnation of enlistees has worked well for the armed forces, but do you think it will be helpful for us to demand new users drop and give us twenty?
Again, how dumb are we allowed to be?
That gets us back to the question of how much people should be expected to know in order to use their computer. I played around with an analogy comparing computer literacy to the invention of the printing press and the industrial revolution and the rise of literacy.
Reading and writing take many years to become proficient at, and it's considered an essential skill in our society. Shouldn't we expect something similar for computer skills, the engine of the new Information Revolution? However, my wife pointed out to me that although most of us can read and write, we're not all reading physics textbooks. I think this is a good point (and not just because she is the boss of me). We should all know how to read and write, but it's not necessary that we all consume the most challenging works available.
We can look at the good old car analogy, but to me that never works very well either. I know very little about how my car works. All I care is that it gets me from here to there. Shouldn't it be the same with my computer? I don't think so. The computer can do so much more. It's a brain amplifier, not just a leg enhancement. Where is "here," and where is "there?" We should be willing to expend as much effort learning to use it as we did to learn reading and writing, so that we'll have the necessary base to get the most benefit possible.
A signpost is useful to a literate person, but only to a point. A novel or a textbook can enlighten and lift its reader up so much more. A car is similarly useful in limited ways, but a computer can and will take us so much further. But we shouldn't expect everyone to get Calculus, and we shouldn't expect everyone to know how to rebuild an engine.
Again, what should we do?
So let's get back to these pesky newbies and their problems and our headaches in dealing with them. (Wait, I'm one of the pesky newbies. But you know what I mean.) Why should we suffer them?
I say that we need them. If your interest is in the success of free software for the freedom it gives us, I think you will agree that the more people using it, the better. If we're just a small, isolated community, it will be more likely that the forces of "unfreedom" will be able to lobby for laws that effectively eliminate the use of free software.
If we want to grow to be a large community, it follows that we need more people using GNU/Linux and other free software. This is a battle on two fronts. Making the software easier to use for the people who just want to read their pulp fiction and take their car for Sunday drives, and doing everything we can to help people understand it and get over their hangups.
Yes, it's frustrating if people are unable or unwilling to figure out the easy stuff. If they resist learning how to fish for themselves. We don't want to answer the same old questions day after day. But still, I think we need to keep handing them the fish, and do our best to help them fillet it and catch some of their own.
Think of it as community service. You should limit the time you spend, but please do spend it. Do things that you'd rather not, for the betterment of the whole community. Again, you may ask what's in it for you, and does it really help to have these dimwits in the community, causing headaches for years to come?
First, behave: they're not dimwits, most of them. Second, many of these people are able to reproduce successfully, and their children will have the chance to grow up knowing what freedom is and valuing it. They may contribute greatly to the community and to your own children. This may be a generational struggle. The other side is hard at work indoctrinating children with anti-freedom propaganda. We need to work just as much at gaining our own recruits. Go forth and multiply!
Other promotion
If you are from the future, you'll be able to visit my home blog at http://www.movingtofreedom.org to read a post I'm planning about an essay by Peter Saint-Andre, titled, "Who's Afraid of the Public Domain". But you can still read the essay now and stay in suspense for my later brilliant analysis. Please consider digging it if you enjoy it.
If you are in the present, please visit anyway to read--among other things--a post inspired by the Richmeister: Makin' Copies! Also, completely off the free software and culture topic, I had a great opportunity to work for and write about another good cause, Kids Against Hunger.
Reusable with this attribution (including hyperlinks), and please note if modifications are made: Copyright © Scott Carpenter, 2006. Originally published in Free Software Magazine. Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License (CC-BY-SA-2.5).
computer, cars, pencils, typewriters, bows and arrows
Yes, with a computer you can do a whole lot more than with a car. You wrote:
We should be willing to expend as much effort learning to use it as we did to learn reading and writing, so that we'll have the necessary base to get the most benefit possible.
But a craftsman doesn't have to be able to write an essay with the same quality as an author or a teacher has to. The craftsman should have other, more practical skills than to express his thoughts in perfect words and write them down correctly. Although it would be nice if he could do that too, he can do other things better - that's why he's a craftsman. And that's why people that aren't skilled in crafts do other things (like writing).
In the same way an author shouldn't have to worry about his computer in the same degree as a programmer does. Probably, the author is better in writing books than he's in programming computer code. So why should he be forced to invest a lot of time in learning how to use his typewriter? Of course, it would be nice if he knew how exactly his typewriter worked. Then, he could repair it himself or enhance it if he got a new idea to integrate into the design. But it shouldn't be necesarry for him to figure that out. The programmer is probably better in those things.
What I want to say is just that in a specialized society, not everyone has to be able to hunt his dinner nor should he be forced to know how to repair his car or his computer. Sure, if he wants to know, he should be able to find out (information wants to be free). But if he sinply doesn't care, he still should be able to use the technology to do what he actually wants to do. So, why not make free software in generally, and GNU/Linux in particular, more userfriendly?
P.S. Tech-savy user will profit too: the more people using GNU/Linux the more people will be willing to pay for support.
P.P.S. The craftsman from the beginning who isn't skilled at writing might be glad if he can use a microphone or a camcorder and his connected computer to spread his thoughts to the world in other ways than writing a text.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Mauro. I was thinking of more ideas around the reading/writing/computing analogy, especially after reading some of the comments to Anthony's post today here and at digg.
It seems there are a lot of people who resent the popularization of GNU/Linux and the move to being more of a mass-market product. We can look again at reading and the different kinds of books out there. Should the nuclear physicist be offended that in addition to books in her field, there are also books for people who just want to learn how to build a patio for their house?
I'd emphasize the comments that mention there are still plenty of interesting and cutting edge things to do in GNU/Linux and it is far from being boring. The idea that GNU/Linux is tainted because the commoners are taking it up does seem quite elitist.
Very well put
I used to have to do computer tech support for people who most people would regard as some of the "smartest" in the world (research astronomers). Many of them have all of the same problems that ordinary "dumb" people have.
Obviously there's not one ladder. When Scott says "dumb", I think he really means "dumb about this particular specialized knowledge set".
But I think emphasizing that many scientists and engineers have the same problems with computer integration and maintenance shows just how important this issue of specialization is: you can be awfully smart and still be inexperienced or have poor aptitude for computers. And I'm going to think twice before calling a guy with a Nobel prize "dumb" for not being able to figure out KDE's menus.
Good interfaces are supposed to eliminate or reduce those kinds of barriers. Microsoft Windows is still better at that aspect and of course, Apple's GUI is far better than that (I'm trying to speak objectively, the truth is, Apple's is my personal least favorite and KDE my most -- but there are objective concepts of interface design and ergonomics that apply especially to new users). They've put a lot of expert human-factors people on their designs.
This isn't something that is so easy for programmers to do for themselves, because they have to "think like a novice" in order to get there.
Some effort is being made to do this with Gnome and KDE, but we're a long way from the finish line. And by the time we get there, we're probably going to be looking for the next evolutionary step in computer interfaces.
new input devices, new chances for GNU/Linux
And by the time we get there, we're probably going to be looking for the next evolutionary step in computer interfaces.
This could be true enough. I think, the next step in computer interfaces will be enabled through touch-screens which accept multiple touches at once. There's some research going on in this area, screens getting cheaper. Here an awesome video demonstration.
It would be terrific if a new Desktop Environment for GNU/Linux would be created which was built around an intuitive user interface especially designed for these touch-screens coming up. If it was really easier to use than todays mouse-based GUIs it could gain quite some market share. Bundled with a device, maybe similar to the 100$-Laptop, this could boost GNU/Linux adoption significantly and bring computing to an even broader public. It is really amazing what kind of interfaces we could create witch this Multi-Touch Interaction technology. Maybe someone who's into user interface design for GNU/Linux should team up with this Jeff Han, the guy leading the research.
use of drivers and foss
I believe the linux communtiy should some how figure out how to better the integration of proprietary software instead of outright banning it. Company are not going to just give out there source code for thier drivers or very few at least. This presents a problem for the FOSS community and this topic should be more brought up in forums and discussions. People dont want to spend hours configuring there wireless laptop with ndiswrapper and sound drivers. If they install the OS and it doesnt work all they know is that it doesnt work and they will go back to MS Windows if it doesnt work.Another thing I see is that linux communities are very seperated. Theres thousands of different Linux OS's trying to find and fill another niche. What these communities of developers should be doing is investing there time to be worth while helping create one of the more popular distribution like opensuse, fedora, ubuntu, freespire, PC LinuxOS, or Xandros. Instead the community continues to seperate itself and allow linux as a whole to be less impacting on the non-linux community. More leadership is needed to manage these millions of deveopers.
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Re: use of drivers and foss
>I believe the linux communtiy should some how figure out how to better the integration of
>proprietary software instead of outright banning it.
Nobody needs to ban anything. Some Linux distros include closed-source apps and drivers as standard, others give you the choice if you want them or not, and yet others refuse to include them. But even in the last category, they still can't stop you from downloading and installing such things anyway. This is Linux--you are always free to choose what you want and don't want to run.
It's a free market, and purveyors of closed-source software are increasingly finding that they have to compete with open-source. I think the balance is inexorably shifting to the latter, but it's a slow process, and closed-source will have a place in the market for a while yet.
Lawrence D'Oliveiro
How do you define dumb and how can you define 'smart'?
I agree with you totally here. I've been playing with computers since the days of Apple-DOS and MS-DOS. I've worked my way up through Windows, and have started to work with Linux. In fact, I was in college learning to program in arcane languages (read COBOL and FORTRAN) when Linux first came out on floppies.
Yet, I'm still a newbie. Even though I've built computers, and have installed various versions of Windows (including being a beta tester for Server 2003 R2, Vista, and Longhorn), jumping into the Linux side of things was hard. I've never had to use programs like makefile in order to install anything before. Like most of the "newbies" or "dummies" that people slam, I was used to clicking on a exe or bat file, and it does the rest.
Whether anyone likes it or not, that is going to be one of the things that makes Linux great. The ability to click on an installer, and have it do everything for you. Yes I totally agree that the power in Linux lies in the command line. And, I tell everyone that I talk with about Linux, this very same thing. I've even gone so far as to show them on older versions of Windows, where the power was (and that Microsoft decided that we were too dumb to handle that power, so they hid it from us). And when I've had it available to me, I've shown them in Linux as well.
The problem is this. A solid majority of the people who will **consider** switching to Linux are not going to want to learn the command line. They're going to want it to be simple, like they're used to in Windows. They're going to want to click on a program, and have it install the program they are trying to get.
Our job is this. One, help them by making the installers work. That way, the users will make the move over to Linux. Then, our job is to make sure they learn the command line. For that is where the true power lies. We shouldn't ridicule them for not knowing the command line. We should encourage and educate them about it. Once they start to get a feel for it, and the other advanced features of Linux, they'll move from the "GNU/Linux" distros to the "beefier and more manly distros". But our job is NOT to scare them off.
I'll go so far as to say this. If you can't help the newbies without ridiculing them, then keep your fingers to yourself. In other words, if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. While I agree with the author (Scott) in that you should help out a little, I have to say that if you're going to help me, but ridicule me in the process, I'd rather you don't help me at all. I'm sure someone else will help me-- without feeling the need to make me feel like I'm too dumb to use Linux.
Hi, Patrick. Thanks for your comments. It's great to hear from someone in similar circumstances. We can expect things to be different and look forward to learning new ways to do things, but yes, why not make things easier on the surface where possible? It will be a good challenge to keep simplifying the interface while leaving all the power and configurability near at hand for those that know how and want to use it. I'd like something for myself (and others) that lets us dive in and start using it and then experiment at leisure, and it seems that there is a lot of progress in this direction. (And still things to struggle with.)
I agree that people should be pleasant about helping, or not help at all. I understand it can be hard to maintain patience sometimes, but I also know from experience that "Google is your friend" can come across as quite condescending. (Now hopefully I'll remember my own advice if I manage to gain enough proficiency to start performing some "community service" myself.)
At the distribution level, having to compile things by hand is becoming less and less common through modern "package management".
Applications such as Adept or Synaptics in combination with a healthy repo such as Debian's put most applications right at your fingertips and will settle dependencies for you.
Whether's its Debian's apt-get, Fedora's yum, Arch's pacman, or Gentoo's portage, installing applications has become pretty easy. Sometimes there are still problems with these systems, but significantly fewer issues arise today then just a couple years ago.
Also, some distributions such as Gentoo or Ubuntu have amazing documentation and helpful users in the forums, the problem is that sometimes the answer to your question perhaps isn't as obvious as it could be.
The progression of computer literacy
I think you are in the right ballpark in your thinking about computer literacy (a term that seems to have fallen out of favor) being as important as "regular" literacy. And I also think you are right about it being a generational process. And if the "keep them dumb, ignorant, and non-free" forces don't get draconian laws passed, I think it is likely to happen more or less on its own.
I remember 25 to 30 years ago when it was common for people to advocate the need for computer literacy. And then the Macintosh came out. When the small tech company I was working for got its first Macintosh (which resided in the president's office, but I could access it after hours) some of us started questioning whether the general populace needed to be computer literate after all; they could just point and click their way to nirvana. Boy were we wrong!
It is only now that we are beginning to see any significant part of the adult population who have been around computers for essentially their whole life. In most cases their parents only started struggling with computers (and in most cases it was a struggle) as adults. As these young adults start having their own kids, I think you will see dramatic changes in the population's relationship to computers. At least if things are kept free enough that those who desire can explore as far as they wish. And particularly if they can encounter different software/OS's so that they can actually learn about computers rather than learning about a (ahem) particular company's software and thinking that is the beginning and end of computers.
As I scan back through your blog I don't see it, but I believe you suggested that computing freedom will become increasingly necessary for other freedoms as we move into an increasingly digital world. I agree. As such maintaining digital freedom becomes a moral imperative. The biggest challenge for us now is to keep things from getting so locked down that the natural progression toward computer literacy does not have a chance to blossom.
I did write something along that line but also don't remember where at the moment. (Thanks so much for your continued interest in my writing!)
I agree -- I think everything is naturally pointing towards a more free, open, and sharing culture, if only we just let it happen. And since the computer and the things we do with it will become more and more central, it is absolutely critical that the architecture be free and open. It will happen sooner or later, I just have a selfish desire to have it be sooner.
We have these industries desperate to hold on to their power, and that stifling control they would like to have is very disturbing to me, when the alternative is a wildly creative and free culture that would flourish as the public domain grew richer.
Scott -
You are one of my favorite writers. You weave humor and kindness throughout your writing and your reading is encouraged forward.
Good points on an inclusive attitude for more people -- even us dumb ones. I think another reason to make it easy to get on board is that everyone has something to contribute. Perhaps they are "dumb" in the area of operating systems (I am!), but we need their gifts as well in areas that operating systems mega-geeks are "dumb."
It takes everyone working together to further the free open source revolution.
Good read - again! Thanks much!
Go forth and multiply! ;-)
Thanks, Amy! Your kind words here and at digg really brightened my day. I'm glad you enjoyed the article, and I like your points about the different strengths we need in this job.
For example, while technical documentation isn't typically something I like to do, I think I can do a decent job at it and therefore should try my hand at writing some decent tutorials, etc. It can be satisfying if those instructions help people, but then of course you really wade in to the morass of questions that go along with writing code and documentation. I'm thinking in recent times of all the WordPress plugins and tutorials I've seen that have comment sections that go on forever with people struggling to get things to work. Not especially appealing if you're already short on time, but I guess that's exactly the kind of thing I was writing about.


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You loved the '80s -- in big part because of Madonna. And you've been following the Material Girl ever since. So of course you're thrilled that the Material Girl is headed to the Bay Area for a pair of shows this week.
But hold on. The young music fans in your family weren't even born in the '80s. Their obsession is Justin Bieber, the Canadian heartthrob who is trying to make the difficult leap from teen idol to bona fide musical artist. And he's also in the Bay Area this week.
Clearly there is a generational divide separating this weekend's two gigantic concert attractions: Madonna on Saturday and Sunday at HP Pavilion in San Jose and Justin Bieber on Saturday at Oracle Arena in Oakland. After all, Madonna was already a world beater with millions of records sold, starring roles in movies and gazillions of controversies to her credit by the time Bieber entered his first singing contest at age 12 (placing second).
Yet plenty of families will turn out to see both acts -- and there's no reason why fans of all ages shouldn't enjoy the shows.
To help bridge the age gap, we're providing guides to both artists to help bring the uninitiated -- and, in some cases, the uninterested -- up to speed. Hopefully, after reading our tutorials, the young ones in the family will be more interested in seeing Madonna, and the chauffeurs (i.e., parents) will catch a bit of Bieber Fever.
Madonna 101
1 Influence: Madonna is one of the most influential and innovative artists in music history. It would be absurd to try to list all of the modern female pop stars inspired by the Material Girl. Let's just say almost all of them owe debts of gratitude to Madonna Louise Ciccone.
2 Nothing's shocking: Madonna didn't invent controversy, but she certainly perfected its use as a marketing tool. Seemingly, anything is fair game in her world if it garners headlines. She's tackled such heated topics as abortion ("Papa Don't Preach") and religion (in her video for "Like a Prayer" and on her 2006 Confessions Tour). On her current tour, she's been criticized for using gun props and other startling imagery on stage. Tell me Lady Gaga and Kanye West haven't been paying attention.
3 "Sex": A revealing outfit or "wardrobe malfunction" generates huge headlines for today's female pop stars. Then, of course, there's the private sex tape, which never seems to stay private for long and has helped turn Kim Kardashian and other beauties into household names. In a way, the Material Girl pioneered this path -- when she released 1992's "Sex," a collection of nudie and softcore-porn pictures of herself. And, believe it or not, she released it as a coffee-table book.
4 I Kissed a Girl: No, Katy Perry, you weren't first. Madonna brought girl-on-girl titillation into the homes of millions when she locked lips with both Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera at the 2003 MTV Video Music Awards.
5 EDM: Electronic Dance Music is all the rage with the college set these days. Yet, it's nothing new to Madonna, who must be considered one of the pioneers of the genre, if not as a creator then as an artist who helped bring the genre into the mainstream. She's been collaborating with top-name DJs for years and helped popularize the style on her seventh studio album, 1998's "Ray of Light." Some youngsters, however, just have no respect for those who paved the way. Notably, superstar DJ DeadMau5 bashed Madonna by calling her a "funky grandma." Whatever, mouse man.
6 Real cred: Among her many honors, Madonna was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2008, which places her on the same ground with such immortals as Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, Otis Redding and Aretha Franklin.
7 Longevity: She was 23 when her first single, "Everybody," came out in 1982. She's now 54 and still on top of the world. Hard to name many other pop stars who have remained relevant for that long a period.
8 Millions sold: Sure, Adele, Lady Gaga and Katy Perry have been hot as of late. Yet, they all have a long way to go before they approach Madonna's career totals. She has sold more than 300 million records across the globe -- which, according to Guinness World Records, makes Madonna the world's top-selling female artist.
9 Queen of all media: From the very start, it seemed like Madonna wanted to be more than just a pop star. She's certainly pursued other business and artistic endeavors with gusto -- such as running her own record label, Maverick, and starring in films like 1985's "Desperately Seeking Susan" and 1996's "Evita." She's also an acclaimed film director and clothing designer, among many other things. Diversifying is the name of her game, but so many other acts (including Bieber) are now playing along.
10 Key tracks: This is a tough one -- because there are so many. But, if we have to pick, here are five downloads that will help one get to know some of the Material Girl's many musical sides: "Lucky Star" (lightweight pop), "Crazy for You" (romantic ballad), "Papa Don't Preach" (topical), "La Isla Bonita" (tropical) and "4 Minutes" (dance-pop, featuring Justin Timberlake).
Bieber for beginners
1 The Hair: Bieber's 'do is a pop culture phenomenon. It's discussed as widely, and as rabidly, as any of his songs. His original hairstyle -- kind of a bowl cut, swept-to-one-side thingy -- is more memorable than most of his hits. Anytime Bieber changes his cut, it sends ripples through Twitterdom as well as junior high schools across the planet. His hair even has its own fan clubs and Facebook pages. Yet such attention to a haircut is hardly new -- as fans of the original mop tops, the Beatles, can attest.
2 YouTube: Bieber has arguably used online video sharing services more effectively than anyone. His videos have collected nearly 3 billion views on YouTube alone. The platform is new, but the effect isn't unlike what Madonna, Michael Jackson and others accomplished with MTV in the '80s.
3 Child star: He was only 15 when his first single, "One Time," hit radio. Now, he's 18 and trying to transition from child star to legit pop singer. He's hoping that the result is more Justin Timberlake and Britney Spears (both former TV Mouseketeers) than Tiffany and Lil' Romeo.
4 Cover boy: He's the bread-and-butter for all those teen idol magazines on shelves. Nothing sells copies quite like Bieber's cute mug out on the cover. Unless it's Bieber on a date with his girlfriend, Disney star Selena Gomez. Of course, some of these publications (like the immortal Tiger Beat) once turned to Shaun Cassidy, the Monkees, Leif Garrett and (gulp!) even the Righteous Brothers to entice readers.
5 Usher Jr.: If you want to know what Bieber is shooting for onstage, look no further than his mentor, Usher. He's trying to be a song and dance, um, man. And he's pretty decent in that role, but still nowhere near as good as Usher.
6 Influence: According to the social-media tracking website Klout, Bieber is a more influential online presence than President Barack Obama and the Dalai Lama. That's impressive, but still might pale in comparison to the influence the Beatles once exerted on the pop world. Remember when John Lennon once infamously proclaimed that his band had become more popular than Jesus?
7 Twitter: These days, it's all about how many followers a star has on Twitter. Bieber has more than 28 million, which makes him the second-most followed person on the globe (just a million or so behind Lady Gaga). That's taking the old fan club plan, which has been used by pop stars for generations, to a new level.
8 Top seller: Bieber has released three studio albums, each of which has hit No. 1 on the charts. Yet, he still has room to grow: Bieber has yet to notch his first No. 1 single in the United States.
9 Merry Christmas: The "most wonderful time of the year" is a key period for pop stars. Hundreds have mined the Christmas songbook over the years to the tune of chart success. Bieber got in on the action in late 2011, with his "Under the Mistletoe" moving more than 200,000 copies in its first week on shelves.
10 Key tracks: Here are five songs you should download to prep for Bieber: "Baby," "Boyfriend," "Never Say Never," "Somebody to Love" and "Eenie Meenie."
Follow Jim Harrington at Twitter.com/jimthecritic, Facebook.com/jim.bayareanews and http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/category/concerts.
Madonna in concert
When: 8 p.m.
Where: HP Pavilion, 525 W. Santa Clara St., San Jose
Tickets: $48-$358; www.ticketmaster.com
Justin Bieber in concert
When: 7 p.m. Saturday
Where: Oracle Arena, 7000 Coliseum Way, Oakland
Tickets: $37.50-$85.25; www.ticketmaster.com


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text:
All Equal Under the Bailout Sun?
What one bailed-out country gets, the others should too. At least that was the principle set out by the euro zone. Greece, Ireland and Portugal–despite their many differences—would enjoy the same borrowing terms and conditions. This became the case when the three countries saw the interest rates on their bailouts from the European Financial Stability Facility lowered across the board to Euribor+1.5% last June.
Is this principle of equal treatment now to be abandoned? Let's rewind to four days ago.
Under a deal struck between euro-zone countries and the International Monetary Fund last Tuesday, Greece is set to get some respite on its bailout terms. It won't have to start paying interest until 2022 after a 10-year interest payment moratorium expires; it will get until 2042 instead of 2027 to repay its bailout to the euro-zone bailout fund; and the EFSF will charge Greece Euribor+0.5% instead of Euribor+1.5% for its loans. Further, the profits the European Central Bank makes on holdings of Greek-government bonds will be handed in to Greece via national central banks. Not too shabby, one might say, though as we explain here these concessions don't solve Greece's more existential problem.
And will the same apply to Greece's bailout brethren? Based on a briefing by a senior euro-zone official, probably not.
The official, who was speaking to reporters Friday ahead of the euro-zone finance ministers' meeting on Monday, said that there is an agreement for Ireland and Portugal to not transfer their respective profits to Greece and to not participate in the interest-rate cut Greece is to enjoy on its first bailout.
But will Ireland and Portugal also see the profits of their countries' government bonds held by the ECB under the Securities and Markets Program returned to them? Will the two countries also get a moratorium on interest payments to the EFSF, or an extension to their bailouts?
"Now, in this new round of addressing the unique Greek case some unique benefits" will be enjoyed by Greece, but not by the other two, the official said [emphasis ours].
Unsurpringly, Portuguese and Irish journalists present at this briefing pressed the official to clarify: had their finance ministers fought hard enough for more concessions? Why would their countries not get what Greece is getting?
The official said their finance ministers had fought a good fight and gotten to exempt the countries from the obligation to return ECB profits –they drove a "clever negotiation," he said. And Greece is a "case in itself," he added.
"If you look at the overall Greek situation, you can see why they [the benefits] were extended to Greece and not to Portugal and Ireland." In other words, he might have said, "do you want to be like Greece?"
Irish officials, for one, say that their focus is to "exit the program." Ireland itself has been recognized as the opposite kind of a "special case" than Greece – a star performer under its bailout based on the officials that monitor it. And earlier this week Irish finance minister Michael Noonan reminded his countrymen that the concessions given to Greece are not without strings attached, referring to the increasingly tough conditionality the country faces. Ireland, of course, is also fighting another battle, this one to get rid of some of the bank-bailout-related debt that's weighing down its public finances.
In a crisis where not being Greece pays, one can see why Dublin and Lisbon may think be reluctant to get their fingers in the bailout-concession honeypot -the honey may not be as sweet as it looks. But it could be a tough strategy to sell to their voters.
Follow @MatinaStevis on Twitter


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