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Skip to comments.More Protestants Find a Home in the Orthodox Antioch Church
Posted on 10/07/2009 6:33:33 AM PDT by Nikas777
More Protestants Find a Home in the Orthodox Antioch Church
By SAMUEL G. FREEDMAN
Published: October 2, 2009
LINTHICUM HEIGHTS, Md. Cal Oren was threading his way through the Santa Cruz Mountains of California early one evening in 1993, driving his wife, brother and three tired children back from a day of hiking amid the redwoods. As their car neared the town of Ben Lomond, Mr. Oren said, his brother pointed to a church on the roadside and said: Ive been inside this. Its really neat.
So Mr. Oren pulled to a stop, and as the children stayed in the car, the grown-ups gingerly padded into the sanctuary of Saints Peter and Paul Antiochian Orthodox Church. A lifelong Presbyterian, Mr. Oren knew virtually nothing about the Antiochians or, for that matter, Orthodox Christianity in general. He had always associated Ben Lomond with hippies, geodesic domes and marijuana fields.
As he entered, a vespers service was under way. Maybe two dozen worshipers stood, chanting psalms and hymns. Incense filled the dark air. Icons of apostles and saints hung on the walls. The ancientness and austerity stood at a time-warp remove from the evangelical circles in which Mr. Oren traveled, so modern, extroverted and assertively relevant.
This was a Christianity I had never encountered before, said Mr. Oren, 55, a marketing consultant in commercial construction. I was frozen in my tracks. I felt like I was in the actual presence of God, almost as if I was in heaven. And Im not the kind of person who gets all woo-hoo.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
The truth as described by Russian pagans over a thousand years ago is echoed by an American today.....
Then we went on to Greece, and the Greeks led us to the edifices where they worship their God, and we knew not whether we were in heaven or on earth. For on earth there is no such splendour or such beauty, and we are at a loss how to describe it. We know only that God dwells there among men, and their service is fairer than the ceremonies of other nations. For we cannot forget that beauty. Every man, after tasting something sweet, is afterward unwilling to accept that which is bitter, and therefore we cannot dwell longer here."- The Russian Primary Chronicle - 988 AD
Orthodox ping list request.
"When is a Baptist not a Baptist?"
When he's in the presence of Lutherans and there's beer in the fridge?
So, you guys are the other non-commie greeks
And the congregation grew by 4%, with the addition of Mr Oren. How many of the other two dozen worshipers were Protestants?
"Incense filled the dark air. Icons of apostles and saints hung on the walls."
Sounds like when I was in college. Whoever knew the Beatles were saints?
"More Protestants" means more than one? Or more than zero?
I'm sure the Orthodox Antioch Church is perfectly charming, but this is a truly Eastern level of number-futzing.
We Orthodox Christians are here, we are not queer and we are coming for your children.
The church at Ben Lomand has had a tortured history. At the time Mr. Oren attended vespers there the parish had a population of about 1500 people, most of whom were converts. The convert priests became disobedient to +Philip, the Metropolitan of the Antiochian Archdiocese and were removed. Lets just say they had some odd and distinctly unorthodox ideas and ways. They and about 300 of their followers went off on their own. The parish today, I am advised, is vibrant and successful.
The visible shift began in 1987 with the conversion of nearly 2,000 evangelical Christians, led by Peter E. Gillquist and other alumni of the Dallas Theological Seminary and the Campus Crusade for Christ. More recently, a wave of converts has arrived from such mainline Protestant denominations as the Episcopalian and Lutheran.
Some 70 percent of Antiochian Orthodox priests in the United States are converts, according to Bradley Nassif, who, as a theology professor at North Park University in Chicago, is a leading scholar of the religion. A generation or two ago, Professor Nassif said, converts made up barely 10 percent of Antiochian clergy.
Professor Nassif went so far, in a 2007 article in Christianity Today magazine, as to suggest that the 21st century might become the Orthodox century as disenchanted Protestants grew attracted to the historical roots, theological rigor and social conservatism of the Eastern Christian denominations.
Whether or not the prediction pans out, it is certainly true that no American convert comes to the Antiochian church by convenience or ease. The denomination has only about 250,000 members in 250 congregations in the country, Professor Nassif estimated.
Orthodox ping.
Bless you
(my comment was more the disbelief I feel when I see the proliferation of Obama stickers in the church parking lot)
A convert from the Charismatic Protestant church describes her discovery of the Ancient Orthodox Christian Church. Judith Irene Matta, MTh interviews Alison Cloonan about her journey into the fullness of Faith in Christ.
Vespers is the pre-game warm-up: Not essential, but really beneficial if you want to do it right. Usually the vespers crowd in the Byzantine churches I've been in is about 10% of the full crowd, mostly single people and parish leaders.
Greeks may have voted for Obama because McCain and the Republicans are seen as pro Muslim Turks - odd as that may sound to non Greek ears. Also, Bush and McCain backed the naming of "Macedonia" over Greek objections. So to say Greeks support Obama hence they are commies is too simple.
Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne. The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel. Rev 8:3-5
I wonder if the mods are gonna say anything about the snarky, insulting garbage being sniped by Protestants toward Orthodox on this thread.
I doubt it, we don't wear the James Dobson/Adrian Rogers Pledge Pin.
It makes me sad that FR is becoming such an echo chamber.
And before you call me a troll, check my join date (2000, circa the election) and my postings. My Conservative ducks are in a row.
Hee hee...hilarious!
I couldn't find anything mentioned in the article or on their website....is Ben Lomand in the "Western Rite" portion of the AOC, or are they offering an Eastern liturgy?
"Greeks may have voted for Obama because McCain and the Republicans are seen as pro Muslim Turks - odd as that may sound to non Greek ears. Also, Bush and McCain backed the naming of Macedonia over Greek objections. So to say Greeks support Obama hence they are commies is too simple.'
I agree. Greeks also supported Dukakis (ethnic pride I can understand, but come on).
My point is simple. American Greeks are a great, hardworking people. Many came here with nothing and depended on hardwork, family and church to build successful lives. Many, many are small business owners. Most are completely devoted to family and faith. Most are proud and committed to 24/7 work over handouts. It's just beyond me why so many brethren are drawn to the democrat party.
Eastern, but a lot of the old EOC folks are still bringing a VERY Western/Protestant approach to things such as hymnological arrangement and the like.
I attend the convert Antiochian parish in Memphis, and we wrung that out of our Liturgy quite some time ago.
Vespers is like the pre-game. Two dozen worshipers is actually a good size crowd.
You can ask that of Jews and other successful ethnic groups in America as well. For Greeks, Jews and other ethnic white groups I think foreign policy is a big reason for it and the fact that the Republicans were seen historically as anti-immigration and not welcoming to Southern and Eastern Europeans, Catholics & Jews.
Thanks! By the way, what's the attraction of converts to the Antiochene Church rather than, say, a Greek or Russian Orthodox one?
Actually no, but you yourself may be in line for a reprimand......... :-)
By using terms like "snarky" and "insulting garbage" you are making it personal and making it about them.
This may be deemed an infraction of FR rules and could see you canned. Get with the program. It works like this. Outrageous comments about your faith are to be received with a polite smile and a courteous rebuttal which pays the mud slinger the unwarranted compliment of assuming that his/her comments were made in good faith.
Any suggestion to the contrary will see you severely chastised.
Could be.
Guess as an American first, I'm more concerned with liberty, keeping taxes low, controlling our borders and killing terrorists.
If you're the ping holder, add me please. Thanks
"Hee hee...hilarious!"
Serves him right! I remember one time many years ago when our then priest suggested to us on the council that we have a "roz bif dinner" as a fundraiser. Once the laughter died down, we explained that the Episcopalians had the exclusive "roz bif dinner" franchise for the area parishes.
"I couldn't find anything mentioned in the article or on their website....is Ben Lomand in the "Western Rite" portion of the AOC, or are they offering an Eastern liturgy?"
So far as I know, they use the Byzantine Rite. Western Rite parishes are very rare.
Appearance, I think - not much else. H.E. +Philip and H.B. +Ignatius IV have been VERY receptive to converts in the US. That's been made clear to us in our parish (we count amongst our ranks a local physician - a Syrian by birth and cradle Antiochian Orthodox whose cousin is a Metropolitan in Europe). We had a dozen people in Catechumen class last night.
The mass conversions of the past 25 years or so have made Antioch appear more open to converts. It's an over-simplification to put it this way, but converts to Orthodoxy *can* feel left out in highly ethnic parishes within the GOARCH and ROCOR, and even within high-concentration Ethnic Arab parishes within the AOANA.
Again, that's an over-simplification and certainly not a universal truth or even reflective of the intent of the parishioners themselves.
By the way, there are some cool videos on YouTube of some of our Bishops' vesting ceremonies at the cathedral in Damascus. I'll Freepmail you the links if you're interested.
I have been in the big Greek church here on Franklin road and I and my wife were both impressed by the same visual and other environmental sensations..
WD, you've had some exposure to Maronite Catholics, though, correct? Don't the Maronites use the Eastern Liturgy? That would definitely make it less of a shocking experience.
"Its an over-simplification to put it this way, but converts to Orthodoxy *can* feel left out in highly ethnic parishes within the GOARCH and ROCOR, and even within high-concentration Ethnic Arab parishes within the AOANA."
That's a very fair statement, in my opinion. To the extent that parishes are ethnic ghettos they can be tightly closed to outsiders. I've seen and even experienced that myself.
My own parish has always been welcoming to non-Greeks (we've had "Syrians" in the parish since the late 1920s), but it is in the past 20 years that things have really changed. Greeks and people of Greek descent now make up perhaps 40% of the parish. The others are Serbs, Russians, Ukrainians, Romanians, Syrians, Lebanese, Ethipians and Egyptians or people descended from them...and all sorts of American converts. The converts tell me that the make up of the parish shows the universality of Orthodox Christianity and gives their children an insight into the ways and mindsets of people who were not born in America.
The foregoing notwithstanding, developing openness to non Greeks (or Russians etc) is a challenge which must be met by all Orthodox parishes in the GOA or the ROC or any of the others. Time, however, seems to be working in that direction.
If the poster wanted an "ecumenical" discussion, he could have labeled the thread that way.
Click on my profile page for more guidelines pertaining to the Religion Forum.
My ex wife was non practicing.
which made it easy for her to pretend to be Jewish her next marriage (in a long line of them now) to satisfy the new hubby and in laws about being in the tribe and all
they soon figured out though they had been snookered
i went to Calvary as a boy right across from where the Primos and Pavlous and Crechales whatnot all went back in the 60s...never stepped foot in the place.
Did go to a Greek Wedding in Houston once...
when I lived around the world I usually went to Catholic service given that was fairly ubiquitous
"Dont the Maronites use the Eastern Liturgy?"
No. They use a sort of modified Novus Ordo liturgy with a lot of Aramaic, which is really quite extraordinary and a continued faithfulness to the prayers and writings and hymns of such Fathers as +Ephraim the Syrian and +Iakovos of Saroug. The Melkites also from Lebanon use the Divine Liturgy of +John Chrysostomos as do all the other Eastern Rite Catholic churches so far as I know.
The Syro-Malabar and Syro-Malankara Catholic churches in India also use variants of the Antiochene Rite. The Syro-Malabars are actually the second-largest Eastern Catholic church, after the Ukrainians.
Listen to an Orthodox service in Spanish is chanted by the Choir of St. Georges Cathedral in Mexico. It is very moving.
I neglected to ping you to the link @ #36 to listen to an Orthodox service in Spanish is chanted by the Choir of St. Georges Cathedral in Mexico.
Ah. That makes sense. I woulda thought the original Antiochenes would have presented the same ethnicity problem, but I guess they didn't strike Anglos as quite so alien. Maybe I'm skewed being Italian...to me it seems Greek Orthodox would be the natural choice. Switch the Sambuca with Ouzo and we're good!
That is interesting about your parish Kolo...do the Ethiopians etc. have any difficulty adapting to the Byzantine liturgy?
"The Maronite liturgy is the Antiochene Rite (Liturgy of St. James) with some Latinizations."
Here's a link to an explanation of the Maronite Liturgy from a Maronite source.
I have been to Maronite Liturgies. I must say they seem to bear little resemblance to the Liturgy of St. James, though I don;t doubt that the modern "experimental" Maronite liturgy is based on it. Here's a link
The Liturgy of St. James is indeed Antiochene and it is very, very long. In its ancient form it is still said here and there and as such is the most ancient continually used Liturgy of The Church.
I swear on my James Dobson/Adrian Rogers Pledge Pin that marshmallow is right about this.
"Maybe I'm skewed being Italian...to me it seems Greek Orthodox would be the natural choice."
When Gilquist and the "Evangelical Orthodox" came knocking on the door of the GOA insisting on a mass welcome into the GOA while retaining their forms and orders (all of which they had made up so far as the GOA was concerned, they were shown the door. +Met. Philip accepted them with some conditions which pretty much resolved the problems the GOA had with them. It is fair to say that the mass conversion has been a mixed blessing. One good result, I suppose, is that most American inquirers walking into an Antiochian Church today in America, except perhaps for here in the NE, will find parishes which are predominantly convert. As such they might feel more comfortable initially, but Orthodoxy is not a way of life for spiritual sissies nor is it "comfortable". It is definitely not something which will accommodate American sensibilities or sensitivities. If an inquirer stays around and becomes Orthodox, the ethnic part,ironically, becomes an added attraction, or so I am told.
"...do the Ethiopians etc. have any difficulty adapting to the Byzantine liturgy?"
Not that I have ever seen. Their Divine Liturgies, as you probably know, are chanted in classical Ge'ez, a beautiful liturgical language. The liturgies themselves are almost identical to our Divine Liturgies so there's not much to get used to. The women always dress in beautiful white for the liturgy and they take their shoes off in the narthex before entering the nave. On big feasts, the men also dress in white with almost royal looking robes. There's no question that what they wear is the best they own. They take their Faith very, very seriously and we Greeks know we are blessed to have them as examples to us.
Speaking personally as an enrolled Orthodox Catechumen in a convert Antiochian parish (to be Chrismated in December...Lord, have mercy), I can tell you from my own experience of the EOC folks...
Those that I know have left behind (boy was THAT an awful choice of words) and will repudiate the "Ortho-stant" of "ProtesDox" approach of those in the old inner circle of the EOC leadership.
Kolo is right, you can't do it both ways. Personally, I wouldn't want to - I couldn't go back to Protestant worship now AT ALL.
I've been told an HILARIOUS story about Bp. BASIL, the Bishop of the Antiochian Diocese of Wichita and Mid-America...
Before the elevation the other Diocesan Bishops in the AOANA, there were only two Auxiliary Bishops... +Antoun and +Basil.
+Basil was celebrating Liturgy at a new convert parish in VIcksburg, MS. And there was a woman playing an organ during Communion. +Basil turned to his assistant, a Subdeacon whose name I shan't give on this forum. The Bishop said, "Please go tell that woman to stop playing the organ."
The Subdeacon (a former Marine) went up over to the organ and said, "His Grace said to stop playing that organ...RIGHT NOW." She apparently couldn't get her hands off the keys fast enough.
Quitely, but audibly, Bp. Basil said, "This is NOT a Baptist church."
"If an inquirer stays around and becomes Orthodox, the ethnic part,ironically, becomes an added attraction, or so I am told."
I am eating felafel for lunch as I type this. Not to mention the fact that, growing up, my parents were friends with a Lebanese family...and my mom still has their family recipe for kibbee.
I LOVE Mediterranean food...
So would the Antiochian church be one of the 33,000 or so Orthodox "denominations"? :)
"So would the Antiochian church be one of the 33,000 or so Orthodox "denominations"? :) "
:) Hey FK! How've you been keeping, my friend? (You know Orthodoxy is "pre-denominational"!)
The Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch, also known as Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch and All the East, the Eastern Orthodox Church of Antioch and All the East, Antiochian Orthodox Church, and the Orthodox Church of Antioch, is one of the five churches that composed the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church before the East-West Schism. It is an autocephalous Eastern Orthodox Church, and the successor to the Christian community founded in Antioch by the Apostles St. Peter and St. Paul.
Thanks. I was thinking of earlier conversations with my friend Kolo, and trying to remember whether the NYT's use of the word "denomination" was proper here in Orthodoxy. (I have some memory of Latins referring to internal "denominations", but wasn't sure.) In any event, if an article is about a faith, I suppose we shouldn't expect much from the NYT. :)
I posted an article about another Antiochian church in California where the used the term "mass" in the article - the church's official website on the other hand uses "liturgy" so I assumed it was the reporter's "translation" error.
Yep. I too am a convert from protestant evangelicalism. Happy to call Antioch home now for three years, but who's counting.
Ethnic attraction? Not really, but more like having a pentecostal experience every time I attend services when I hear portions of the liturgy in Greek, Russian, Arabic, etc...
I didn't search out Antioch. It was simply the only one in my area. I was already prepared to feel out of place, but surprised to find that half the parish were converts from Rome and her wayward children like myself. It's good to be home in the Church.
Though many Orthodox parishes are very tightly bound to an ethnic identity, I can see this taking off for a while among some Evangelicals
Notice, that was Vespers. It doesn't say what day of the week. If it was any day other than Saturday and not the vigil of a major feast, an attendance of 12 would be a good turn out even at a big urban church in a traditionally Orthodox country. In the early 90's, I'm fairly sure the parish in Ben Lomond served Vespers and Orthros (Matins for you Westerners), and maybe even Liturgy, daily. A typical Sunday Liturgy at Ben Lomond during that time period would have had, I'd guess, between 100 and 200 Orthodox faithful.
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Type: Posts; User: aspenedelen
Try it with just www.vermillioncarpetcleaning.com I have no idea why using the https:// causes it to give a non trusted site status.
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I got that too when I loaded the site from here and I am using IE. Interesting, I don't know why it is doing that as the website is hosted by 1&1.
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*** link removed by moderator. Reason: bad link ***


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The finance minister of cash-strapped Cyprus said on Wednesday that a haircut on deposits in local banks would be catastrophic, not only for Cyprus but the entire eurozone.
Such a possibility has been raised and, on Monday, Eurogroup finance ministers failed to rule it out if Nicosia is to clinch a bailout deal.
"We have repeated in the strongest terms that this is not an issue that is on the table," Finance Minister Michalis Sarris told reporters in Nicosia.
"It would be disastrous for Cyprus and the euro zone, and I think this message is gradually getting through to those who may have imagined that it is a possibility."
He said the issue "is not on the table for negotiation" with the so-called troika of international lenders -- the European Commission, European Central Bank and International Monetary Fund -- currently on the island.
A senior troika negotiating team began contacts with the authorities on Wednesday over what steps need to be taken to secure a bailout agreement earmarked for the end of March.
Prior to their arrival a team of technocrats was on the island collecting information on semi-governmental organisations as part of a deal to finalise financial aid.
They are checking the assets, projects and accounts of state-run enterprises such as the electricity and telecoms authority.
In order to seal a bailout agreement it could need to sell off state assets, agree a sum on bank recapitalisation and refute dirty money claims.
The anticipated 17-billion euro ($22.2 billion) figure is roughly the same as the island's GDP, and would increase debt to more than 140 percent of GDP, a level considered unmanageable.
Nicosia wants to conclude a deal as soon as possible as it quickly runs out of cash to pay the bills, and Foreign Minister Ioannis Kasoulides said in Athens on Wednesday that the target was the end of March.
"The crisis and uncertainty have gone on for too long," Kasoulides said during a visit to Greek counterpart Dimitris Avramopoulos.
"The time has come to rebuild our reputation," Kasoulides said, noting that the new conservative government that came to power last month would show "wisdom" with the troika.
Eurozone finance ministers said on Monday that the long-delayed bailout deal could be struck by the end of March after Nicosia agreed to submit its banks to independent scrutiny amid worries over money-laundering
The government has agreed for an independent audit of its Greek-exposed banking sector amid allegations the island is a haven for the ill-gotten gains of Russian oligarchs.
Cypriots officials said Wednesday this assessment of the island's anti-money laundering measures would be conducted in mid-March.
Kasoulides on Wednesday said reports that Cyprus tolerated money-laundering had "destroyed" the country's image.
Cyprus requested financial assistance from the EU in June after its two largest banks sought state aid following massive losses estimated at 4.5 billion euros in a Greek debt haircut.


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I've loaded the plugin and it's retrieving the counts fine. I'm using 3.4.2 and it will be a bit before I update. Can I just get a small tweak to adjust the icons? They are starting to repeat about 6px to the right.
Example in sidebar bottom. This is the widget. The included shortcodes didn't work in my application.


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New Research Finds Melting Arctic May Cost Global Economy $60 Trillion
The rapidly melting Arctic is not only a looming climate catastrophe, but new research shows it could be an economic disaster, as well.
In findings published in the journal Nature, economists and polar scientists from the University of Cambridge and Erasmus University Rotterdam found that the ripple effects of climate change in the Arctic — unlocking frozen reserves of methane that speed global warming and cause destructive and costly climactic changes across the planet — could deal a severe blow to the global economy.
The release of methane from thawing permafrost beneath the East Siberian Sea, off northern Russia, alone comes with an average global price tag of $60 trillion in the absence of mitigating action — a figure comparable to the size of the world economy in 2012 (about $70 trillion). The total cost of Arctic change will be much higher.
While much has been made of the coming economic boom that will result from an increasingly ice-free Arctic — shipping lanes, fisheries, and fossil fuel reserves that previously were inaccessible — little research has been done on the potential economic damage these unprecedented changes may incur.
"People are calculating possible economic benefits in the billions of dollars and we're talking about possible costs and damage and extra impacts in the order of tens of trillions of dollars," said Chris Hope, professor at Cambridge's Judge Business School and report author, in an interview with Financial Times.
The Arctic is melting at an alarming rate — about twice as fast as the rest of the globe — and the impacts thus far have been devastating. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's 2012 Arctic Report Card documented a very grim year for the region and found "strong evidence of widespread, sustained change driving Arctic environmental system into new state," including record-low sea ice extent, record ice sheet surface melting in Greenland, record-high permafrost temperature, and record-low snow extent.
The researchers from Cambridge and Erasmus explain that as the sea ice melts at an unprecedented rate, the thawing permafrost releases large stores of methane. Methane is an extremely potent greenhouse gas and, as is the case with the Arctic's multiple positive feedback loops, increased concentrations of methane in the atmosphere will accelerate global warming — continuing the destructive cycle.
What do all of these unprecedented changes mean? Many experts now say that if recent trends continue and Arctic sea ice continues its 'death spiral,' we will see a "near ice-free Arctic in summer" within a decade. That may well usher in a permanent change toward extreme, prolonged weather events "such as drought, flooding, cold spells and heat waves."
These extreme events come with a huge price tag. If nothing is done to mitigate the effects of climate change, the researchers estimate that just one giant 'methane pulse' will lead to an extra $60 trillion of mean climate change impacts, or 15 percent of the total predicted cost of climate change impacts (about $400 trillion). While this number alone is extraordinary, they emphasize "The full impacts of a warming Arctic, including, for example, ocean acidification and altered ocean and atmospheric circulation, will be much greater than our cost estimate for methane release alone."
As former NOAA Administrator Dr. Jane Lubchenco bluntly stated, "What happens in the Arctic doesn't stay in the Arctic." The region plays a major role in regulating Earth's systems, such as climate and oceans, and it's becoming increasingly clear to scientists that climate change in the Arctic will have profound effects on the entire planet. What needs greater attention, researchers say, is the economic toll this will take. Gail Whiteman, another of the report's authors, told the Guardian, "Neither the World Economic Forum nor the International Monetary Fund currently recognise the economic danger of Arctic change. [They must] pay much more attention to this invisible time-bomb."
48 Responses to New Research Finds Melting Arctic May Cost Global Economy $60 Trillion
60 trillion $$$ and for what? Triage. The Green Awakening Economy could indeed slow, and perhaps even at this late date, stop Global Warming for far less $$$ and humanity might just be able to retain a planet with functioning life support systems. Go Green. Resistance is fatal to Earth's Life support systems. Stop profits from the exploitation and pollution of the commons.
Probably a lot more than 60 $ trillion.
This was briefly the main headline on the BBC News website, but has now – oddly – been relegated to a minor story. Clearly, a honeymoon suspect facing extradition is more important than the end of civilization.
The North Pole has become the North Pool.
Yet capitalism sees this as another 'opportunity' to enrich somebody rather than correct a plant's pending death.
plant = planet
(Although both are affected.)
If we reach a 'cost' of $60 trillion, the global economy as we know it will cease to exist, along with our commercial infrastructure
This post title lacks context, namely time. After reading the source we can see that the time period is stated as: through the year 2200. Despite what we may think of economic forecasts more than a century out (gads!), it is clear that this is not annual cost.
Thanks very much to the authors for attempting to bring an existential global threat down to the pathetic level that world capitalism seems to insist on for public policy choice, namely money.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that once the ice is gone, your glass of Scotch starts to really warm up.
I really like that analogy!
Anybody for albedo changes? The polar ice sheets control about 5% of the albedo of the earth. Once the summer arctic ice is gone there will be an additional 2.0 watts/meter-squared of heat absorbance in the earth's bucket. Since it only takes about 0.5 watt/m2 to melt off an ice age or conversely start one, the loss of summer arctic ice will add more than another degree Centigrade to our system average.
Once the methane (which converts to CO2 so never really leaves) is added, we are in the frying pan.
That's the Blair Broadcasting Corruption to the life. One phone call from a 'senior chap' would be enough to do it.
The sixty trillion is nonsense. What-per year? Or over what period? It is just another silly effort to put a dollar price on human existence, ie it is simply a manifestation of market moral insanity. Unchecked global climate destabilisation will bring near term extinction for our species, and the cost of that, its holy Market Price, is infinite.
First sentence: not only climate catastrophe…also economic. When oh when are we going to rid our minds of this stupid dualism. The so-called 'economy' is a function of the health of the planet, not a separate entity, ME
It takes between 500 megatons and 1 gigaton per year of Arctic methane emission to set up a runaway global warming scenario. Some scientists warn that these events could begin once the Arctic starts seeing ice free summers. Though most scientists still believe the methane amplification coming from the Arctic will be much milder, even if the risk for such an occurred was 10% we should be working as hard as we can now to mitigate risks by rapidly transitioning away from fossil fuel and carbon emissions. Should such an unlikely but extraordinarily terrible even arise, we should also have in place some kind of methane emergency protocol that researches and delivers effective responses to the problem.
Those 50 gigatons of methane on the East Siberian Arctic Shelf are in very shallow water. More ominously, some 2,500 gigatons of carbon are in seabed and tundra formations throughout the Arctic environment. Even a small percent of this emitting as methane could be enough to set off a runaway.
It's a set of circumstances that is well worth looking at and devoting far more resources to. Most importantly, the problem of human carbon emissions that are adding to our risks should be directly and rapidly addressed.
Good point Merrelyn, and well said.
Will – sadly the BBC has become a national disgrace.
Better accounts are available in the Guardian, particularly an interview by Nafeez Ahmed with a delightfully blunt Professor Wadhams.
– NA: "Our global emissions trajectory is already on track to breach 2C in coming decades. What does a 2C world imply for the Arctic melt and the potential for methane release?"
– PW: "We are already in a 2C world in terms of the heating potential of carbon dioxide that we have already put into the atmosphere. The heating will reach 2C before 2050 and will then go on to 3-4C globally by the end of the century. Even a 2C world involves the probable loss of Arctic sea ice for much of the year (and 4C for most of it), which will ensure maximum methane release from the exposed shallow seas of the continental shelves."
If anyone still has any delusions that we can resolve this accelerating catastrophe merely by a binding global treaty of Emissions Control with its ~30yr timelag on effects and its closure of the cooling Fossil Sulphate Parasol,
rather than by a treaty encompassing the trident strategy of Carbon Recovery + Emissions Control + Albedo Restoration,
then they really need to think again.
Peter Wadhams, head of the Polar ocean physics group at Cambridge University, predicts the Arctic could be ice-free by September 2015. He is quoted as saying "Given present trends in extent and thickness, the ice in September will be gone in a very short while, perhaps by 2015. In subsequent years, the ice-free window will widen, to 2-3 months, then 4-5 months etc, and the trends suggest that within 20 years time we may have six ice-free months per year."
Once we reach the state of affairs that this $60 trillion tries to represent, money as we understand it will have lost all meaning.
For about one billion dollars per year, my heat transfer device could restore the Arctic to its original temperature. This is a payoff to the world of far more than 100000% on principal. Do you think Congress is so dumb as melted permafrost to turn down such an offer?
In "A Change in the Weather", the summer ice cap first disappears in 2018. Two things fueled that intuition. I'd always noticed that an ice cube in a glass of soda (or Scotch) seems to melt very slowly until it reaches a certain point, then the mass loss accelerates rapidly.
And I grew up in Maine, so have seen the ice go out on a lake. The entire mass disappears in just a few days, or sometimes just one day, because it melts from the bottom up. Why shouldn't the same thing happen with the ice cap, once it reaches a certain thinness?
Money already has no meaning, except as a socially agreed upon tradable symbol of political power; a number that is minted (by treasuries and handed out by "central banks" for subsidizing the rich).
Then put the glass in a gas chamber. A global gas chamber.
Nice to have something delusional around here, since we're talkin' $60 trillion or so.
A paper I recently came across argues that the true radiative forcing impact of methane released in the Arctic could be 250% to 400% of the radiative forcing due to methane alone due to other effects on atmospheric chemistry:
The fossil fuel industry is forcing us to live in a house of cards which will topple at any moment.
The President must this grave threat.
The President must stop this grave threat.
In a world of "crisis management" where nothing is done until something is totally broken, the environment is not broken enough yet. What has to break to receive due diligence is debatable. Maybe the cost of rebuilding cities after disasters or the closing of ports and evacuation of coastal towns. Whatever it is will probably be 'solved' by a quick-fix solution, a technological patch.
Actually, the planet may not be able to sustain 7 billion humans.
Exactly my thoughts Merrelyn.
Agreed. Risk = probability x magnitude. The probability in this situation is rising, and the magnitude would be unimaginable.
MM, everyone's just trying whatever they can to get this into whatever heads it needs getting into. This is one of *those* efforts – not a silly one if it reaches the intended ears. Money talks for many people (especially the ecologically illiterate).
It's like your little daughter has a live threatening disease and you ask yourself does my budget allows treatment. Of course you would sell your house to save her live! Climate change is life threatening for our children en grandchildren…and most of us don't even consider treatment. Mad world.
At what point does frog realize that your Scotch is too warm to reside in and jump out?
Actually, my read is that your "true radiative forcing" is "indirect." Meaning that the direct RF (100 times CO2) must be added to indirect.
This would be somewhat analogous to the difference between stability and falling, once abundant methane outgassing is underway. The process may overwhelm the hydroxyl radical OH which converts it to CO2, normally after a decade or so (as I understand it).
A rather poor analogy. You can pick up cards. An extinction event is something else.
And at the other end of the world ?
Coastal Antarctic Permafrost Melting Faster Than Expected: Arctic-Like Melt Rates Appearing in Coastal Antarctica.
OK, let's deal with this morning's fallout and criticism from NASA and NOAA and put it in proper context, shall we? And perhaps the original pot needs an update. Here is how I updated mine on FB this morning.
UPDATE :The problem is real, but may move slower than a single decade, and is more likely to be spread out over many decades, according to NASA and NOAA. The authors disagree. Both agree its a large factor, in general, that will happen.
Here is a great collection of critiques of the Nature article. The sources are good and some of the top climate scientists.
But let's not misunderstand the criticism either. Watch out for misinformation on that.
It's not that methane WONT leak in very large quantities and create a worsening of global warming, costing trillions of dollars. It's that, so far, the research says it will happen over many decades, not one. That's the difference!
The authors disagree with the climate scientists and say, ""Those who understand Arctic seabed geology and the oceanography of water column warming from ice retreat do not say that this is a low probability event,"
As a lay person, for right now, the rational conclusion for this hour is that **it is indeed a slow-motion huge and dangerous problem, with an outside minor chance of running into a faster tipping point.**
In the comment section look for Nathan1250, who posts a reply to the criticisms of the article. He forwards the response of Nature co-author, Dr Peter Waldham, head of the Polar Physics Unit in Cambridge. Waldtham points out that those who think the odds of a large CH4 pulse are low (like G Schmitt) are using outdated information. The melting of sea ice ledges is allowing the shallow seas to warm by sunlight, up to 7C. He describes a previously unrecognized, unanticipated mechanism by which the sea bed is warming. This is a potential tipping point and should be treated as such.
Christopher – I'm not clear what you mean by "an outside minor chance of running into a faster tipping point."
With the seven major interactive feedbacks now accelerating at varying rates
(i.e. Water Vapour, Albedo Loss, Microbial Peat Bog Decay, Permafrost Melt, Forest Combustion, Soil Desiccation, and Methyl Clathrates Collapse)
and with the earliest of these, Water Vapour, having begun to rise in response to anthro-warming in the C19th,
the idea of feedbacks' activation forming a 'tipping point' is patently wrong.
If we fail to adopt the necessary control measures in the form of Albedo Restoration techniques, then it is plainly only a matter of time before the feedback interactions run far beyond any possibility of control. Yet to describe the point where they did so as a 'tipping point' seems inane; terminal biospheric dieback would be more apt.
With regard to the ongoing attempt by media interests and some scientist to downplay the ESAS CH4 threat, it is good to see this advance from the ridicule endured by Semiletov, Shakhova and others when they made effectively the same prognosis some years back.
In response to your comment above, I would point out that Wadhams did not forecast a 50Gt CH4 output in 10 years; his prognosis for that output was between 10 and 50 years, starting after the first total loss of summer sea ice in the next few years.
While I see the goal of translating the impacts of that output into economic terms for govts. to consider, I suspect that a more direct metric could get a wider audience and a much more potent impact. Supposing the output were spread over 50 years – at the high end of Wadhams' schedule and the low end of his naysayers' "many decades," then we'd see just 1.0Gt CH4 /yr emitted. As you'll know, over the critical 20yr time horizon this equates to 105Gts CO2e as an annual output.
This could be presented as the equivalent of a roughly four-fold increase of global anthro-CO2 emissions continuing for 50 years, but there is a better option.
If this moderate prognosis of 105Gts /yr CO2e output is divided by current national outputs,
then with China's ~10.0Gts CO2 /yr it represents just over 10 new China's-worth of annual outputs,
and with the US ~5.80Gts CO2 /yr it represents just over 18 new America's-worth of annual outputs.
From this perspective I'd have to differ with your assessments that:
this is a "slow motion" problem – compared with all other known climate dynamics it is appallingly fast, even under the moderate prognosis above –
and that:
it poses "an outside minor chance of running into a faster tipping point" – given that unless we rapidly establish the supervised RD&D of Albedo Restoration we ARE committed to losing the Arctic sea-ice in summer, and we WILL see the start of giga-scale CH4 outputs from the ESAS clathrate stocks, whose impact would predictably push the seven interactive mega-feedbacks beyond the possibility of control. This is not "an outside chance"; this is what we are committed to if we fail to deploy Albedo Restoration.
I suggest that it is those scientists who persist in expressing denial of the seriousness of Wadhams' findings that are providing fuel for the deniers.
Not agreed –
"Most importantly, the problem of human carbon emissions that are adding to our risks should be directly and rapidly addressed."
With respect, your proposal of unchanged priorities in response to this news of the ESAS CH4 feedback seems irrational.
If a scenario of a 50yr output of 50Gts is proposed as the slow end of Wadhams' prognosis and the fast end of that of his critics, then we're facing 1.0Gt CH4 /yr. On the crucial 20yr time horizon that is 105Gts CO2e each year, which is roughly 18 new America's-worth of CO2 output.
This is a moderate account of what we are committed to if we fail to rapidly establish the well-supervised RD&D of the necessary Albedo Restoration, since no rate of emissions control can achieve global cooling within a relevant timescale.
If scientists and politicians had acknowledged 20 years ago that 4 mega-feedbacks were already active and accelerating (i.e. Water Vapour, Albedo Loss, Microbial Peat Bog Decay and Permafrost Melt) and that another 2 showed signs of doing so (Forest Combustion and Soil Desiccation) and one more (Methyl Clathrates Collapse) was quite predictable,
– then they might well have acknowledged that both Albedo Restoration and Carbon Recovery were essential components of a commensurate climate treaty, and our present position would be very different.
Instead, these issues have been kept off the public radar, perhaps with the same White House office that told the green NGOs not to discuss climate change (for fear of hindering emissions control) telling them not to discuss Geo-E as anything but a deception (for fear of hindering emissions control) – regardless of the fact that there is now no prospect of resolving AGW without the use of Geo-E.
From this perspective, striving for renewable energy supply as a token of emissions control is simply not the priority. Only a global treaty on Emissions Control can end the routine of fossil fuels locally displaced by renewables being bought and burnt elsewhere,
and to be commensurate with the scope of the AGW problem any treaty has to include both Albedo Restoration and Carbon Recovery alongside Emissions Control. Nothing less has any chance of resolving the problem.
Accounting any one of these three as "the most important" is to downgrade effort for the other two and to miss the point that all three are requisite. Campaigning for this 'trident' strategy is surely now the most important priority.
Based on paleoclimate data, this ain't gonna happen. Didn't happen during the Eemian Interglacial, for example.
David, as a layman I've observed the persistent 'stability bias' across the scientific community over the last few decades being shown up by repeated examples of changes occuring decades and in some cases centuries ahead of the consensus expectation. Having the most advanced warming, and the most advanced albedo loss feedback warming, the Arctic is naturally the main focus of those surprises.
With the head of the Polar Ocean Physics Group at Cambridge (with its long tradition of world class excellence in physics research) having not desk top but massive field research experience,
and with his findings on a highly contentious issue being approved as plausible by the stringent review process imposed by the journal Nature,
it seems entirely plausible that the rate of ESS clathrates' collapse will be yet another 'surprise' for the scientific community.
With regard to the Emian interglacial, given that the present threat is entirely rate-related, (i.e. 50Gts CH4 over say 50yrs is catastrophic while over 5,000 years it would be of near insignificant impact) I wonder if you can describe the fastest rate of warming per millenium during that period ?
Yes, I included a statement from the author along that line. Nevertheless, when both NOAA and NASA bring up large contradictory statements regarding the amount of time, it's worth paying attention to or giving a moment to consider. These ain't hacks.
LEWIS SAID: "his prognosis for that output was between 10 and 50 years, starting after the first total loss of summer sea ice in the next few years."
The Nature story, and financial impact, was emphasizing the ten year time period. Don't look at me. I'm merely saying that NASA and NOAA are no slouches on this, and indeed it's the position of James Hansen as well. and that their comments should be included in an update in the original post of this story at Climate Progress.
Fair enough GreenHearted. All grist to the mill, I suppose. However, I do believe that putting a dollar value on everything, even human existence, is a mistake, because it plays into the 'Market' mode of seeing reality, ie that everything has its price, whereby it becomes a commodity to be bought and sold to the highest bidder.
Irrefudiable logic. The Bosses clearly see no need for several billion 'useless eaters', and are taking steps to ensure their near term disappearance. How they imagine that they can ride out the storm is a bit of a mystery.
They are organisations controlled by Rightwing regimes and subjected to intense pressure from even more Rightwing politicians, overwhelmingly powerful corporate interests and a villainous Rightwing MSM. They and numerous other establishment scientific bodies, the IPCC perhaps the worst, have radically underestimated the pace of change in numerous parameters of climate destabilisation for decades, and I'll bet that Wadhams et al are nearer the money, most unfortunately.
We will not go extinct immediately.
There will be environmental collapses and more economic collapses and it will not be pretty.
And, unless poor people first gets the highest priority it will be collapse of the global rule of law.
It will not be pretty.


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I'm running WP 3.1.
I've created the "My Membership Options" page and set it correctly using the s2member options. However, when I put the "[s2Member-Profile /]" shortcode on that page, the shortcode isn't replaced by the profile editing form, it's just displays the shortcode.
Has anyone else run into this? Is there a fix? Is this 3.1 specific?


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Arizona Cardinals
Players don't quit on coaches
Whatever happens between Ken Whisenhunt and the Arizona Cardinals in the future, don't tell me he lost the locker room or that players quit on him. I hate these words and they invoke bad memories of playing 10 years in the league on losing teams. I have observed many professional football players, none that were great but some that were good, that pulled up their stakes and didn't play with the passion and intensity needed to win football games. I have seen it with my own eyes. But don't tell me they quit on the coach.
Players don't quit on coaches; they quit on themselves.
When I use the word "quit," I mean it emotionally. Quitting or the word quit doesn't involve a conscious act of cognition where a player refuses to play or honor his responsibilities, quitting happens within the soul where emotion, passion and intensity resides. Quitting, as it pertains to football, is about refusing to engage the spirit and essence of the game. There is desperation and there is DESPERATION; there is intensity and then there is intensity that makes you shoot your hands under a man's chin, hoping his head might come off and roll on the ground. That was too much, but you get my point.
This is the kind of intensity and desperation football players at the highest level our species can generate should play with in order to play the game properly. In fact, the game demands you play it this way. Or you might get what you had in Seattle.
I think there were guys that pulled up their stakes and quit against the Seahawks. Not everybody, but enough. How else can one explain what we all witnessed?
But don't tell me they quit on Ken Whisenhunt. You, as an individual, are either predisposed to quitting or you're not. Guys didn't quit on the coach, they quit on the situation of losing nine in a row and not having a quarterback. They quit because that's what they've always done in the past when things got tough. They quit because that's who they are.
And there were many players that didn't quit against Seattle — and they know who they are! There are many players on the Cardinals roster that would never quit because the world would personally explode before their very eyes before they ever allowed themselves to curl up in the fetal.
These players have mastered the art of taking their profession personally. These players understand their name is their number and their number is their name; they play for no one nor nothing but the standard they have set for themselves. They have internalized their pride in purpose and are accountable and dependable to themselves first and then their teammates/coaches. They know nothing else.
In high school you would run through a landslide in flip-flops to be acknowledged by your coach. In college you played for your school, played for pride and, yes, even played for your coach. But in the NFL, you don't play for a coach. You may be on the roster and his name is above yours but you don't play FOR a coach. You play as a sole-proprietor, you play for the money (because to do anything else is masochistic), you play for the Clan, you play for kith & kin, you play to pay your wife's Gucci Card. You are a mercenary…and you know it.
This is why I can say with certitude that players don't quit on coaches because they never play for coaches to begin with. Players quit on themselves. And that's an indictment of them not their coach, their teammates or Ken Whisenhunt.
Then again, we do live in a culture where we blame others for our problems.
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Visteon Rises as Tax Seen Limited in Halla Deal
Visteon Corp., the auto-parts maker focusing on growing Asian operations, gained the most in 10 days after a UBS Securities LLC analyst report said there would be a "limited" capital-gain tax impact from divesting its stake in South Korea's Halla Climate Control Corp.
Visteon rose 4.9 percent to $41.83 at at the close in New York, the most since Aug. 13.
"The capital gain tax impact of divesting Halla is limited," Colin Langan, a UBS analyst, wrote in a report dated yesterday. "In Korea, the capital gains would likely be exempt from tax under the U.S.-Korea tax law."
Visteon owns 70 percent of Daejeon, South Korea-based Halla. Visteon, based in Van Buren Township, Michigan, was rebuffed in an attempt to buy the remainder after the National Pension Service, which owns 8.1 percent of Halla, rejected the bid.
The U.S. auto-parts supplier, spun off from Ford Motor Co. in 2000, subsequently changed leadership when Chief Executive Officer Don Stebbins resigned on Aug. 10. Visteon's board installed Tim Leuliette as interim chairman, president and CEO. Visteon, since exiting bankruptcy in 2010, has been shedding lower-margin revenue in vehicle interiors and lighting to focus on faster-growing operations in Asia.


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Powerball ticket worth $337M sold in Michigan
Published: Thursday, August 16, 2012 at 7:22 a.m.
Last Modified: Thursday, August 16, 2012 at 7:22 a.m.
LAPEER, Mich. (AP) — A winning ticket in the $337 million Powerball drawing has been sold at a gas station in Michigan.
The winning numbers in the Wednesday night drawing were 6, 27, 46, 51, 56 and Powerball 21.
The Michigan Lottery says the ticket was sold in Lapeer, about 45 miles north of Detroit. There wasn't immediate word about the buyer's identity.
A person who answered the phone Thursday morning at the Sunoco station said he was too busy to talk.
Eight tickets matched five of the winning numbers to win $1 million. Two of those tickets were sold in Indiana. The others were sold in Kansas, Kentucky, New Jersey, New Mexico, Pennsylvania and Virginia.
There was also a ticket sold in Nebraska that added the Power Play to win $2 million.
Reader comments posted to this article may be published in our print edition. All rights reserved. This copyrighted material may not be re-published without permission. Links are encouraged.


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Teens charged with mischief, trespassSeptember 25,2013Teens accused of
mischief, trespass
HARTLAND Two Windsor teenagers face multiple charges for allegedly causing damage to a Hartland laundry mat.
According to police, Timothy Murphy, 18, and Makenzie Delaney, 17, caused $2,000 worth of damage to two coin-operated machines Thursday at the Itty Bitty Laundry Mat on Route 5 in Hartland.
Murphy and Delaney were located by police and charged with unlawful mischief, unlawful trespass and providing false information to a police officer.
Arraignments for both suspects are scheduled for Nov. 5 in criminal court in White River Junction.MORE IN This Just In
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Hello all, can you please help me convert this sh script I wrote to a ruby? Im working on it as well, but brand new to ruby.
What the code does is run the aws command ...rds-describe-db-instances... pull variables from it, then insert those varribles to outputted JSON.
Code:#!/bin/sh echo " { \"checks\": {" rds-describe-db-instances|awk '$1 == "DBINSTANCE" { print $6,$9 }'| while read S I; do echo " \"mysql_disk_usage_$I\": { \"handlers\": [\"default\",\"mailer_alerts\"], \"command\": \"/etc/sensu/plugins/mysql-disk.rb -h$I u -p -s$S\", \"interval\": 300, \"occurrences\": 1, \"subscribers\": [ \"urls\" ] }," done echo "}}"


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Beat Making with Nintendo Game Sample in FL Studio4 Comments
Chebit with another beat making video using a video game sample. Skip to the 1:50 mark.
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Posted by on October 31, 2012. Category: Beat Making Videos · FL Studio Music Software · Music Production Videos
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An up-to-date look at free software and its makers
Projects on the Move
We take a closer look at photo stitching, a photo gallery application, an audio player, and video-recording software. for a more complete summary of the article.
In the age of digital cameras, most people are capable of taking reasonable photos. To make an impression with photos, you have to do something really special. Stitching is one option, but this has nothing to do with traditional handicrafts. These days, stitching means piecing individual photos together to create a large-scale panoramic image.
Now that high-quality digital cameras are affordable and pocket-sized, photo stitching is becoming increasingly popular. A good camera is no guarantee of a usable photographic panorama – you need some software to help piece individual images together in, for example, GIMP. The community has a solution for this problem, and its popularity is growing to keep pace with the popularity of stitching.
Hugin is a program for photo stitching on Linux and other Unix-style operating systems [1]. The authors call their software a "simple collection of tools for creating panorama photos." Hugin comprises three smaller tools that live behind a clear-cut and functional interface.
Assuming you have the right kind of original image material, Hugin supports simple drag-and-drop-based stitching. Photos for stitching must be part of a larger panoramic image, and they must overlap at the edges.
To improve the fit of the individual sections, the use of a tripod is a good idea. After loading the photos you want to stitch, you need to define reference points that Hugin will use to join the photos (Figure 1). In next to no time, you have a panoramic image.
Gallery 2
Online photo galleries – with panoramic photos or simple snapshots – keep popping up on the Internet like mushrooms out of the ground. The most widespread software solution is Menaltos Gallery 2 [2]. In the past, the PHP-based software was vulnerable to all kinds of security bugs, in part because it suffers from functional overload.
The online setup – with no fewer than 10 configuration steps – is a clumsy piece of work and unnecessary if you just want to publish a couple of photos on a website.
With the Gallery 2 problems in mind, Brett Parker created a shell script as an alternative to the many heavyweight gallery applications. Users can set a couple of environmental variables, such as the width of the HTML page, and pass the photo folder in to the script as a command-line argument.
The solution, known as Bpgallery [3], can't hope to compete with the functionality of Gallery 2; on the other hand, it doesn't need PHP support or a database. Bpgallery simply creates a static HTML page that you can then upload to the server.
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SUSE Joins the Microsoft Test Drive Program
Customers can take a free test drive of SLES for HPC on the Azure Cloud
SiFive Launches a Line of Open Source Chips
San Francisco-based chip company announces their first fully open source chip platform.
Fedora 24 Released
The whole distro gets rebuilt on glibc 2.3
Canonical Announces Cross-Distro Support for Snaps
Ubuntu Vendor tries to solve app packaging and distribution problem across distributions.
ownCloud Forked
Founder of ownCloud launches the Nextcloud project.
HP Enterprise Unveils a Futuristic Computer
Will The Machine change the way future programmers think about memory?
CoreOS Announces Distributed Storage System
The new Torus distributed storage system is available under an open source license on GitHub
Google Beats Oracle in the Android Lawsuit
Juries decides Google's use of Java APIs Was Fair Use
Linux is the Largest Software Development Project in History
But if you are not using the latest Linux kernel, your system is insecure.
Linksys Says Yes to Open Source Firmware
Home routers will give room for custom firmware but still comply with FCC rules


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Hey guys, went to Citi Field today to meet my rep and pick out my seats for the upcoming season. Here are 2 photos I took of the new fence going up. Nothing has really started in left field yet.
Not Mommy, not Daddy.....METSIE, METSIE, METSIE.
What plan and location did you pick up? Apparently they've given up on many of the 40 game spots and are moving them in 15 game plans - like Caesars Box 326 row 6 or something. Since they're not guaranteed same location renewals they can be reallocated if/when demand for 40 or full season plans return. (Though this tangent belongs in the Citi Field Tickets & Concessions thread, I lost track of which one I was in initially)
«Telle est la vie des hommes. Quelques joies, très vite effacées par dinoubliables chagrins. Il n'est pas nécessaire de le dire aux enfants...» (Marcel Pagnol)
ha ha. The steel roofing is very ugly.
Still better looking than the war zone across the street.
Out of curiosity, I made a composite from 2 images that showed the new CF dimensions as well as NYS's (note: the legend's Orange color is under the furthest Black in the outfield).
Even with the changes it looks like it'll still require something a bit more legit than a pop fly to get a homer in right field.
It also appears that the Pepsi Porch overhang into fair territory has been maintained.
All in all, I'm still shocked at the differences in RF between NYS and what is now NCF.
Let's stay on topic, folks. Thanks.
"And their chances of getting back into this ballgame are growing dimmer by the batter."
Put it in the books.
I see great things in baseball. It's our game - the American game.
- Walt Whitman
its tough to watch pop flys be called HR's in the boogie down. Cheapens baseball. Lets wait and see how Citifield plays. I personally like pitchers parks..
Garage sale: Mets auction pieces of Citi
By Andrew Marchand
Well, just like the rest of us, when you need to raise some cash, the Wilpons are having a garage sale. They are auctioning off pieces of their stadium.
You can have a portion of the soon-to-be defunct wall that had the Wheat Thins ad, the Verizon ad, the Delta ad and the Lincoln ad on it. The Mets are opening the bids around $800 to $1K for each of these. Consider there is barely any history associated with them -- they are not exactly Fenway's Citgo sign after three years -- it is hard to believe there is a huge market. But when you need cash, you need cash.
What might be more appealing are pieces of the 1988 NL East Division wall banner, the 2006 NL East Division wall banner and the 2000 NL champion wall banner. At least they represent winning something, not companies who paid money to advertise on a wall.
As any of us who have ever had a garage sale know, every dollar matters so step right up and help your team get rid of the junk memorabilia they don't need anymore.
Questions of the Day: Would you buy any of this stuff? How much would you pay for it? And why?
Last edited by Jim Vaz; 01-19-2012 at 09:01 PM.
Actually, there is history associated with the wall that had the Wheat Thins ad... that's the wall over which Jody Gerut's home run - the very first hit at Citi Field during a regular season game - flew over...
You know you're all grown up when you eat Lucky Charms cereal and don't pick out the mini marshmallows before pouring the milk.
What's the over/under on Lucas Duda catching a spike in the chain link and doing a gruesome Bobby Valentine imitation? What are they thinking?
Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.
I'd rather have $800 worth of actual wheat thins. I'm starving.
"I can no longer, in good conscience, play the game in a manner that reflects the positive example for the younger generation of baseball players," he said. "Physcially, I'm fine. But mentally, my reasons for wanting to be in uniform have become so thin and narrow that I refuse to disrespect the game that has provided so generously for my family in a halfhearted way.
"This game of ours owes me nothing, but I owe the game at least that much. When a player finds his willingness to compete to be so greatly diminished, that player must leave the game so as not to disrespect it by becoming a player who plays solely for his paycheck and his own personal glory.
"This is a notion so distasteful to me it makes me physically sick to my stomach."
You know you're all grown up when you eat Lucky Charms cereal and don't pick out the mini marshmallows before pouring the milk.
Those new fences are gonna have Tarp type ads on them like the xerox sign because its a chain link fence. Might look really cheap like the owners...
My God what has happened to this great franchise? Why not sell the cups left in the seats after a game as a "game used cup". You can't even make up what you read but you are not suprised...
Last edited by Paul W; 01-20-2012 at 06:11 PM.
the turd in the punchbowl
reality really sucks.
enjoy the game more...


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School bus rear-ended near Byrnes Freshman Academy; no injuries reported
Published: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 11:26 a.m.
Last Modified: Tuesday, March 12, 2013 at 11:26 a.m.
A Spartanburg District 5 school bus was rear-ended near the Byrnes Freshman Academy on Tuesday morning.
The wreck happened at the intersection of Danzler Road and Rowe Street.
District spokesman Bobby Bentley said a car rear-ended a truck, which then hit the bus.
Bentley said four high school students were on the bus at the time, but neither the students nor the drivers involved were injured.
Reader comments posted to this article may be published in our print edition. All rights reserved. This copyrighted material may not be re-published without permission. Links are encouraged.


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BEST WESTERN Desert Winds
BEST WESTERN Desert Winds
Hotel Guest Rating: 8.0/10
16200 Sierra Highway
Mojave, CA 93501
Hotel Freebies Available*
• Free Breakfast show dates
• Free Internet in Room show dates
• Free Parking show dates
Welcome to the BEST WESTERN Desert Winds
Proximity to Edwards Air Force Base and Mojave Air and Space Port make the Best Western Desert Winds a convenient home base for Priceline guests visiting Mojave.
Hotel Features
The Best Western is home to 51 rooms, each of which features free Wi-Fi, a flat-panel TV, microwave, refrigerator and coffeemaker. Non-smoking rooms can be requested. Wake up and smell the coffee at each morning's free continental breakfast. The hotel offers fax and copy facilities, welcome amenities for travelers with work in tow. After a busy day whitewater rafting on the Kern or hiking in Red Rock Canyon, guets relax in the hotel'soutdoor heated pool and hot tub. Parking is free.
Hotel Location
The Best Western is just over a mile from Mojave Air and Space Port, 12 miles from Edwards Air Force Base, and 30 minutes from Willow Springs International Speedway and Red Rock Canyon State Park. Meadows Field Airport in Bakersfield is 69 miles away, and Bob Hope Airport in Glendale is 84 miles away.
Guest Favorites
Priceline guests who love the thrill of space and speed — not to mention the natural beauty of California — head for the Mojave and Best Western Desert Winds, where the rooms' "nice furniture" and copious amenities are highlights.
BEST WESTERN Desert Winds Amenities
- Alarm clock
- Cable television
- Coffee/Tea maker
- Complimentary breakfast
- Complimentary full american breakfast
- Complimentary in-room coffee or tea
- Exterior corridors
- Fax service
- Free local calls
- Free parking
- Hairdryer
- High speed internet access
- High speed internet connection
- Ice machine
- Internet access
- Ironing board
- Microwave
- Non-smoking
- Non-smoking rooms (generic)
- Outdoor pool
- Pets allowed
- Photocopy center
- Refrigerator
- Safe deposit box
- Security
- Spa
- Wake-up calls
Hotel Information
You must show a valid photo ID and credit card upon check-in. Please note that all special requests cannot be guaranteed and are subject to availability upon check-in. Additional charges may apply. Guests are required to show a photo identification and credit card upon check-in. Please note that all Special Requests are subject to availability and additional charges may apply.
Hotel Guest Reviews of the BEST WESTERN Desert WindsOur hotel ratings and reviews are from real hotel guests. Priceline.com ensures that its reviews are guests-only by proactively sending hotel surveys to customers after they've completed their hotel stays. In the post-stay surveys, priceline.com hotel customers are asked a number of questions about their stay and the hotel. On a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the best, the survey asks guests to rate their overall experience and specifically rate the hotel's cleanliness, staff and location. Priceline.com does not allow site visitors to post unsolicited hotel reviews.
Sort by: All Travelers | Solo Traveler(3) | Traveling as Couple(2) | Family with Young Children(1) | Senior Traveler(1) | Group Traveler(1)
Verified Hotel Guest from Waterloo, IA
July 13, 2016
July 13, 2016
Good stopping place for the night. Clean rooms.
Hot tub dirty
Verified Hotel Guest from Minden, NV
May 24, 2016
Solo Traveler
May 24, 2016
Solo Traveler
Location, nice selection of breakfast choices, and a fenced potty yard for my dog.
The bed was ok, but not as comfortable as I'd like.
Verified Hotel Guest from Ridgecrest, CA
April 18, 2016
Group Traveler
April 18, 2016
Group Traveler
Denny's right next door. Fridge and microwave
Hair dryer didn't work
Verified Hotel Guest from Minden, NV
February 9, 2016
February 9, 2016
Pet friendly, although not much area to potty my dog. The room had a refrigerator and a microwave, plus the beds were really comfortable. Some road noise because they're close to the road, but not too bad. I would stay here again for the price I paid.
The plastic bags for the ice buckets did not fit, and I know that ice buckets are never washed by housekeeping. Those bags are important! :-)
Raymond from Albuquerque, NM
August 10, 2015
August 10, 2015
Nice room. Clean. Great breakfast.
Couldn't get the internet connection to work right.
Verified Hotel Guest from Mesa, AZ
July 28, 2015
July 28, 2015
John from Corona, CA
April 23, 2015
Family Traveling with Young Children
April 23, 2015
Family Traveling with Young Children
We trust the Best Western name. It was not our first choice because it was farther away than we wanted to stay, (our event was in Lancaster) But, the room was clean and that was nice for our family. The Breakfast was good and it was free, we like free
When I booked the room there was some confusion on whether or not it was a smoking room, It was a smoking room, and it smelled pretty bad, we bought some fabreeze and it worked out , but, the housekeepers should make the rooms smell good no matter what.
Richard from Orangevale, CA
March 5, 2015
Senior Travelers
March 5, 2015
Senior Travelers
heat pump did not work and it was chilly in the room.
Michael from Steenhuffel, Belgium
November 15, 2014
Solo Traveler
November 15, 2014
Solo Traveler
Location was perfect
Travelers most likely will be coming for the known attractions so may be proactive to be aware of them
Peter from Renton, WA
September 2, 2014
Solo Traveler
September 2, 2014
Solo Traveler
Nice Comfortable room, good value. Good breakfast included, very convient.
Staff was helpful.
Reviews of BEST WESTERN Desert Winds
(1 - 10 of 10 reviews)
(1 - 10 of 10 reviews)
from $94
- Motel 6 Mojave - Airport from $50 (0.1mi)
- Americas Best Value Inn Mojave from $54 (0.2mi)
- Budget Inn Mojave from $54 (0.5mi)
- Executive Inn Mojave from $54 (0.7mi)
- Motel 6 Mojave from $45 (0.7mi)


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Love Ke Funday
M Cream: Screening
xXx: The Return of Xander...
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Hema Malinis TOI Archives...
Amitabh Bachchan - 100 Ye...
100 Yrs of Cinema: Legend...
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Rishi Kapoors TOI Archive...
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Mirchi Top 20 Jubilee Nig...
Shamita Singha's b'day pa...
Bret Lee at TKSS
Uttar Urvashi: A play
Rains lash India
Celebs at airport
Celebrities Dressing Half their Age
Celebs in news
Celebs favourite holiday spots
Celebs candid selfies
Parties & Events
Celebrity photoshoots
B'wood's bikini bombshells
Celebrity Instagram pics
Celebs' 'Twitpics'
H'wood: Sexy beach bodies
Bizarre food across the world
Hottest Women Prisoners
Workout Divas!
B-town celebs' candid pics
Hotties' flaunt their assets
Movies' first look
B'wood celebs spotted
Pregnant hotties
Bold acts in B'wood!
Amy Jackson
Celebs' hush-hush weddings
Celebrity FB Pics
Interest Network


text:
Home |
About FYO |
Calendar |
Membership |
Curriculum |
Music Staff |
Auditions |
Stringfest |
Listen In |
Music STEPS Outreach |
Happy Concerts & Generations
FYO Music
Director, Thomas M. Sleeper, is also Director of the
renowned University of Miami Symphony Orchestra and
Guest Conductor worldwide. He earned his Bachelor's in
Music Education at the University of Texas, and his
Master's in Conducting at Meadows School of the Arts,
Southern Methodist University in Dallas. He was
appointed to his first position as Associate Conductor
of the Dallas Civic Symphony and the SMU Chamber
Orchestra and Opera Theater at age 22. He later became
Interim Music Director of the Dallas Civic Symphony
until joining the faculty at Stetson University as
Conductor of the university orchestra. In 1992 he
received an appointment as Foreign Guest Conductor and
Artistic Advisor for the China-Wuhan Symphony.
Mr. Sleeper has guest conducted major orchestras in
the U.S. and abroad, appearing with the Rousse,
Bulgaria, State Philharmonic; Savannah Symphony
Orchestra; Dallas Symphony Orchestra; and Central
Philharmonic Orchestra of China. He has conducted a
series of highly successful concerts and
radio/television broadcasts with the Philharmonic
Orchestra of China, and led that orchestra in a historic
tour to Shanghai, the first time the orchestra had
performed there since the revolution of 1949. An active
composer, his compositions have been performed
throughout the United States as well as in Europe and
Asia, and have been recorded on six labels.
A native of Australia, Steve Burnes holds a Master's Degree from the University of Surrey, with performance studies completed at the Royal College of Music in London. He taught in the Government Schools for the New South Wales Dept. of Education, and has vast performing experience at the Sydney Opera House, St. Martin-in-the-Fields and the "Con Brio" Chamber Ensemble, among others.
An active bass trombonist, conductor and educator, Dr. Brubeck serves as Professor of Music at Miami Dade College, Kendall, where he coordinates the chamber music program and teaches applied trombone and music theory. He performs regularly with the Miami City Ballet Orchestra, Brass Miami, Duo Brubeck, The Brubeck-Neal Due and as a soloist. Among many music luminaries, he has performed with Steve Wonder, The Bolshoi Ballet, Ray Charles and as solo artist for the International Trombone Festival. His compositions, entitled "Stereograms", have been performed and recorded throughout the globe. Dr. Brubeck has also published numerous compositions and arrangements, scholarly articles, a basic theory text and a method text for trombone.
Laura Joella, a second generation conductor, holds the position of Director of Orchestral Studies at Florida Atlantic University. The Sun-Sentinel has praised her as having a "superbly idiomatic touch" and for "drawing tremendously energized rhythmic kick and verve" from the orchestra.
She holds a Doctor of Musical Arts and Master of Music in Orchestral Conducting degrees from Michigan State University, and has conducted at the Conductor's Institute at Spoleto, Mason Orchestral Society, the Michigan Youth Symphony, the Naples Philharmonic and many others, as well as serving as the Music Director of New England Music Camp's Concert Orchestra in Maine.
Brian Mirsky
received graduate degrees from Johns Hopkins and
Princeton Universities and has been on the faculty of
the University of Georgia, New Mexico State University
and Florida International University. He held the
position of Orchestra Director at the Dreyfoos School
for the Arts and at Pine Crest School, and has performed
with the Palm Beach Opera and other distinguished
ensembles. In addition to performing as a violinist, Mr.
Mirsky is an active piano accompanist, serving as
accompanist at the Dreyfoos School and Florida Atlantic
Teresa Esparza, an accomplished cellist, received her
Bachelor's in music from the State University of New
York, where she studied with Bernard Greenhouse. She
taught school in New York and Miami, and has been a
member of the Miami City Ballet Orchestra. Currently Ms.
Esparza is a member of the Symphony of the Americas.
Dr. Rufus Jones began his formal training as an orchestral conductor at the University of Texas in Austin, where he graduated with a B.A. in Music. He then received a Master of Music degree at the State University of New York, and a Doctor of Musical Arts degree in Orchestral Conducting at Texas Tech University. He has conducted youth, university and professional orchestras in this country and beyond, and was accepted into prestigious conducting programs such as Tanglewood Music Festival. Prior to moving to South Florida, Dr. Jones taught at Georgetown University in Washington, D.C., where he served as Director of the chamber music program, wind ensemble and symphony orchestra. Currently, he is Director of Orchestral and Choral Studies at Westglades Middle School in Parkland, and has joined the Florida Youth Orchestra for what will surely be the first of many years on its music staff.
Firdman earned a Bachelor's in Music on Viola
Performance at Eastman School of Music, where she
studied with Heidi Castleman, and continued on to
receive her Master's in Music at the prestigious
Juilliard School in Manhattan. She performed in the
Mexico City Philharmonic, Nashville Symphony and the New
Artists String Quartet before joining the Florida
Philharmonic Orchestra.
Geremy Miller is a graduate of the State University of New York, where he studied with Oscar Shumsky and Joseph Fuchs, of the Juilliard School. He was a member of the Violin I section of the Florida Philharmonic Orchestra, resulting in numerous stage and operatic performances with world class artists such as Itzhak Perlman, Isaac Stern, Pinchas Zuckerman and Ida Hendel. As a professional studio violinist, he worked with numerous recording artists, including Jackie Gleason, John Denver, Barry Gibb, Julio Iglesias, Gloria Estefan and Jennifer Lopez, among many others. Mr. Miller has worked with the Florida Youth Orchestra for the past five years.
Marie Schwartz is a professional flutist and piccoloist who pursues an active career as a soloist, orchestral musician, and chamber musician in both Florida and New York. A proponent of new music, Marie collaborates with composers, who have written Woodwind Quintets for her group, 4 Winds & A Horn, and is awaiting the completion of a Flute Concerto written for her premiere. She frequently performs with The New Philharmonic and the Boca Raton Philharmonic Symphonia, and is a member of The New York Wind Trio and The Art Trio. Marie has numerous TV appearances, and has been featured on National Public Radio. Additionally Marie was instrumental in developing the "Young Musicians in Performance" (YMIP) concerto competition series that was broadcast on New York City's renowned classical musical station WQXR. She is a member of the National Flute Association and the Florida Flute Association.
A copy of the official registration (#SC-01177) and financial information may be obtained from the Division of Consumer Services by calling toll-free within the State (800) HELP-FLA or http://www.freshfromflorida.com/Divisions-Offices/Consumer-Services. Registration does not imply endorsement, approval or recommendation by the state.


text:
No Health Problems from 2014 Chemical Spill in West Virginia
Government study finds safety for unborn children, calming fears
Government study finds safety for unborn children, calming fears
Scant cortisol levels in mummified locks change ideas about pre-Hispanic Chile natives
The most sensitive search yet for the mystery substance draws a blank after 20 months
Jim Papadopoulos has spent a lifetime pondering the maths of bikes in motion. Now his work has found fresh momentum
One is likely 10 percent warmer than Earth, the other 6 percent cooler
Whenever I see my 10-year-old daughter brimming over with so much energy that she jumps up in the middle of supper to run around the table, I think to myself, "those young mitochondria." Mitochondria are our cells' energy dynamos.
We can't really ask an octopus to count backward from 10. Which is just one of the tricky things about putting an octopus under. If knocking an octopus out (for science) sounds like an unusual procedure, well, it is.
Slow-motion footage of bees reveals their high-speed collisions and in-flight recovery systems."Lens of Time: Bumper Bees" was first published on bioGraphic © 2016, California Academy of Sciences.


text:
Enfield South Australia.
The photo is taken with my Canon EOS 5D Mark II using RAW format.Tripod.
enfield south australia night house sedge808
This is a bril;liant capture Sedge,
Thanks Malcolm.One of my faves.
Great choice, wonderful shot – what a funny little corner block
Enfield is such a scary area to explore at night.Don't think I will do it again, alone.Thank you. Gav.
I like the way the edges in the trees and around are softened. Good capture and wondering if that is a person peeking out the window at you:)) Run Gavin Run!
oh, I hope not :-)I was freaked as it was that night (rough area).Thanks Donna.This is one of my faves at the moment.
Excellent Work!
Thanks Bobby.U is good friend.
Superbly captured sedge.
Thanks Julie.Enfield is rather scary at night.I won't be going there alone, again.
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text:
Working Together for a #strongWSA
On February 29th, 2016 the BC government officially brought the Water Sustainability Act (WSA) into force with the release of a first set of new and updated regulations. The regulations included—for the first time ever—rules to regulate non-domestic groundwater extractions, new rates for water withdrawals, and more.
Despite the date of its release, the act isn't exactly a leap forward, although it is a step in the right direction. The Act has been several years in the making, and is in large part the result of public pressure calling for increased oversight and protection of the waters we share—our lifeblood.
The new regulations have some strengths. For example, non-domestic groundwater use must now be licensed, and must recognize the connection between groundwater and surface water. As well, water users will pay, and pay more, for ground and surface withdrawals, which will help raise money to properly monitor and enforce protection of our water resources.
However, there are some significant concerns. For example, while the WSA requires decision-makers to consider environmental flows needs – leaving enough water in streams for healthy aquatic ecosystems – when issuing licenses to new water users, they are exempt from this requirement when granting licenses for existing groundwater users. That means unsustainable water use could get "locked in" for years to come, potentially creating conflicts between water users and infringing on aboriginal fishing rights. We are exploring what could be done to push back on this situation.
The WSA is far from being a done deal. New regulations will continue to be developed over the next couple years, in areas such as monitoring and reporting, watershed planning and governance, water objectives, and agricultural and livestock watering. We must be vigilant and stay involved as key regulations are developed.
Regulations are like paddles to a canoe. But without rigorous and prudent regulations, and proper resources to implement, the canoe could be left with just one paddle. We don't want to paddle in circles—we want to move forward.
Join us in demanding a fair, just and #strongWSA. Sign up to let us know we can call on you when the time is right to show government that we care about our waters.
ourwaterbc.ca will protect your privacy and keep you posted about this and similar campaigns


text:
Well played Sir... :laugh:
Type: Posts; User: Ixomeneus
Well played Sir... :laugh:
Alright guys,
I searched and the most recent posts about a Suzuki XL7 were from 7 years ago...
The vehicle in question:
Scanners? Radio devices? GPS devices? Wifi antennas for the dead hookers in the trunk?
LED Headlamp
Emergency Space Blanket
Jumper Cables
First Aid Kit with tourniquet
Seat belt cutter
Tow strap
Metal E-tool shovel
Mini Air Compressor (comes with the car)
Nomex gloves
Can of...
Sheesh, take this for what's it worth from an owner.
If you're interested in an allroad, you have to know what you're getting into. The bottomline is that you're very likely to exceed the overall...
I disagree. While it's a nice car; I think that Q50 looks like a melted marshmellow and adding D-pillars with some tastefully executed lines would give that thing some sense of purpose. :D
I never thought I'd like wagons but after owning two examples of them, I can't look at a sedan the same way again.
Even though these newer crossovers are compelling (at least on paper, not so...
You're quite welcome.
Btw, even if I gave you props, it'd still make it a useless comment.
And since we're talking about cars being destroyed, I dunno if it was better off being saved...
...I might be.
If there was a brand that I'd like to try, it'd be Volvo.
Makes sense to sense to slam an 'allroad' with fancy wheels... Rebadge the thing to 'noroad'. :o
You're talking about a few lbs of difference (at the most)... Maybe even ounces. :what:
Again, these cars weigh as much as a 2013 Ford Explorer. I don't think 3 lbs will make a difference....
Not interchangeable.
The bellhousings don't even align up.
The Arnotts are a little lighter.
What's it matter though? Your car weighs like 4375 lbs at the curb. :laugh:
You should've just gotten a standard A6 Avant to do the abusive scene junk to.
Your car... Looks like hot garbage IMO (especially with those Rotas).
The new Cherokee has really grown on me... I can't wait til some aftermarket stuff comes along.
If the guy wants AWD, then he wants it. I don't understand all the griefing/making excuses going on about this. Btw, having driven both versions of the 8P A3, I can comfortably say that the quattro...
If I were you, I'd prepare about 3 to 4x times the amount of that purchase price just for upcoming repairs and missing maintenance.
There is absolutely no way that the Alltrack is going to sell at levels around 2000 with that projected lineup. Depending on price, the Crossblue 5 will more than likely eat it's lunch -further...