text: 000 FXUS62 KGSP 251043 AFDGSP Area Forecast Discussion National Weather Service Greenville-Spartanburg SC 643 AM EDT WED MAY 25 2016 .SYNOPSIS... High pressure will prevail over the Southeast most of this week. Moist southerly flow will lead to warmer temperatures and mainly afternoon chances of showers and thunderstorms each day through Friday. A period of cooler and wetter weather may develop late in the weekend as low pressure moves onshore from the Atlantic. && .NEAR TERM /THROUGH TONIGHT/... As of 640 AM: Area of mid clouds has moved east, but additional mid and high clouds are moving back in from the west ahead of a weak short wave moving toward the area. Southwesterly low level flow will bring increasing moisture and warmth to the area today. This will lead to weak instability across the mountains this afternoon. Isolated to scattered convection will develop across the mountains this afternoon then diminish during the evening. Forecast soundings show a capped atmosphere or very high LFC levels outside of the mountains today. The synoptic scale guidance is in good agreement on this scenario. Some of the convection allowing models show a line of convection developing to our west ahead of the aforementioned weak short wave. This convection moves into the mountains, including NE GA and the Upstate, this afternoon and dissipates as it reaches the foothills of the three states. For now, have followed the synoptic model scenario given the weak short wave and weak instability. Clouds will linger much of the night even as the convection wanes. Highs today and lows tonight will be around 5 degrees above normal. && .SHORT TERM /THURSDAY THROUGH FRIDAY NIGHT/... As of 245 AM Wed: Generally speaking, a western Atlantic ridge will be the dominant feature over the Southeast Thursday and Friday. Moist southerly low-level flow will continue. On Thursday a broad warm front will extend from low pressure over the northern Plains southeastward into the upper Ohio Valley and vicinity, but unlike some previous runs there is no longer indication this will enhance lift over our CWFA. Diurnal destabilization will result in PoPs slightly above climo and extending to all zones. The ridge deepens by Friday afternoon and lapse rates are not quite as good, so chances are correspondingly lower then. Max temps will be slightly above climo, and mins will be several degrees above. && .LONG TERM /SATURDAY THROUGH TUESDAY/... As of 310 AM Wed: The upper pattern progresses little into the weekend, with the Bermuda High holding back the central CONUS trough. While this by itself would suggest a continuation of mainly diurnal convection and near- or above-normal temps, the "wildcard" in the forecast continues to be the track of low pressure moving out of the Bahamas and toward the South Atlantic coast Saturday and beyond. Global models continue to show poor run-to-run consistency with this feature, but the latest consensus (if you can call it that) suggests the low will approach the Charleston area. Some guidance stagnates the low along the coast and eventually takes it toward the Outer Banks; the GFS and some GEM Ensemble members instead bring it onshore near the mouth of the Savannah River. While most guidance suggests deeper tropical moisture spreading over the Carolinas as the low approaches, they do so to varying degrees, and the timing thereof is not agreed upon. For now, a blend of favored guidance produces suppressed diurnal PoPs on Saturday as a pocket of dry air swings over the area ahead of the low, but then a slow but steady increase in chances from Saturday night into Monday. Max temps will fall to a couple degrees below climo early next week under mostly cloudy and damp conditions; this will keep diurnal ranges limited and thus min temps will be well above climo. && .AVIATION /12Z WEDNESDAY THROUGH SUNDAY/... At KCLT and elsewhere: area of mid clouds has moved east, but mid and high clouds are moving back into the area from the west. Any patchy fog will quickly burn off this morning. Expect cumulus to develop with heating after daybreak. Isolated to scattered mountain ridge top convection will develop through the afternoon then taper off during the evening. Confidence too low for any mention at KAVL or the other airfields. SW winds will increase in speed through the day, then taper off during the evening. Outlook: Mainly VFR conditions will prevail through the period, but patchy morning fog chances continue at KAVL. Scattered afternoon SHRA/TSRA coverage will increase Thursday through Friday - with more uncertainty on Sat. Confidence Table... 10-16Z 16-22Z 22-04Z 04-06Z KCLT High 100% High 100% High 100% High 100% KGSP High 100% High 100% High 100% High 100% KAVL High 100% High 100% High 100% High 100% KHKY High 100% High 100% High 100% High 100% KGMU High 100% High 100% High 100% High 100% KAND High 100% High 100% High 100% High 100% The percentage reflects the number of guidance members agreeing with the schedule TAF issuance flight rule category. Complete hourly experimental aviation forecast consistency tables and ensemble forecasts are available at the following link: www.weather.gov/gsp/aviation && .GSP WATCHES/WARNINGS/ADVISORIES... GA...None. NC...None. SC...None. && $$ SYNOPSIS...Wimberley NEAR TERM...RWH SHORT TERM...Wimberley LONG TERM...Wimberley AVIATION...RWH


text:
unblockyoutube.us opened on 25.9.2034 and this domain is 0 month old We see that unblockyoutube.us is using Google Adsense to monetize and , 14746 Alexa Rank and Country rank shows us how good and useful this site is.It is well known webmasters care about W3 Validator and fortunately W3 didn't find any error and warning on unblockyoutube.us. It is important for every website to open quick and be smooth while surfing. We see this site opens in 350 milliseconds and it is a really good score. This domain's nameservers are ns1.unblockyoutube.us and ns2.unblockyoutube.us.On our researches we see unblockyoutube.us gets visitors with these words : unblock youtube, unblock youtube us, youtube unblocker, unblockyoutube.us, www.unblockyoutube.us, unblock, unblock proxy youtube, unblockyoutube, http://www.unblockyoutube.co.uk/, unblockyoutube.com. This website has 4 keywords, we think this site is not using much keywords but in these times keywords do not matter much. We see unblockyoutube.us doesn't have DMOZ record that is why we don't think this site is secure to surf but since DMOZ wants money to add your site to Dmoz we can't say this site is 100% secure or not.We see that your website gets most of the users with these missed types;7nblockyoutube.us, ublockyoutube.us, ubnblockyoutube.us, unlockyoutube.us, ungblockyoutube.us, unbockyoutube.us, unbklockyoutube.us, unblckyoutube.us, unbl0ockyoutube.us, unblokyoutube.us,
Mostly to be successful, and to obtain top rankings or positions in the search engines.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
Your order must total $99.00 before tax and shipping. Free Shipping on Ground Deliveries only going to one delivery location in the continental U.S. only, additional locations are $8.95 each. May not be combined with other coupons or promotional offers. Coupon not valid on our selection of Tervis or Louisville Slugger products. Offer not valid on previous orders.
Expiration: December 31, 2015 Code: SHIPPING99
Set of 4 Diamond Cut Glancairn Whiskey Glasses. This glass was designed after traditional nosing glasses used by master blenders. The special shape holds in the aroma, which many connoisseurs consider to equally important to the drinking experience. Imported German lead free crystal glasses have a 6.75 oz. capacity. faceted diamond cuts and hand engraved in monogram style as shown. Made in the USA.
Hand washing is recommended


text:
Esteban Granero is eager to stay with QPR.
The Fulham Chronicle says Granero has told Harry Redknapp he wants to stay at QPR.
He was shipped out on loan to Real Sociedad at the beginning of the season as Redknapp looked to rebuild his squad for a Championship promotion push.
Redknapp said: "He's a smashing lad and wants to stay. I hope we can get the best out of him and he can have a good season for us."
For the big stories and the banter follow us on Twitter: @tribalfootball


text:
Editors' Note: The download only contains an incremental update to the actual product, which has to be acquired separately.
Age of Empires Update for MacFree
Quick Specs
Total Downloads:614,006
Date Added:Jan. 19, 2000
Price:Free; $49.99 to buy
File Size:1.29MB
Downloads Last Week:63
Product ranking:#6 in Strategy Games
From MacSoft: How will you rule the world? Conquer enemy civilizations? Discover the world's secrets? Accumulate wealth? As the guiding spirit of a Stone Age Tribe, follow one of these paths to build the greatest civilization on earth. Compete against opponents for the limited resources used to build and manage your civilization into a powerful empire. Direct a research path that leads to the economic, military or naval technologies best used to achieve game goals. Choose from multiple gameplay options including more than 40 preset scenarios, individual campaigns or randomly generated games. Build powerful armies from dozens of military units including warships, chariots and war elephants. Challenge a sophisticated and adjustable artifical intelligence for endless replay value. Conquer or cooperate with up to eight Mac players via LAN or Internet. Command one of twelve ancient civilizations from Egyptian to Greek: all with unique attributes based on their historical counterparts.
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text: On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 04:03:31PM +0000, Mark McLoughlin wrote: > > 3. The Sun repository *is* the upstream for xend on Solaris for a number > > of reasons: > > > > a. The 3.1.x series is only maintained by us, there is no other 3.1 upstream > > > > b. The XenSource upstream does not, and cannot, work on Solaris > > > > c. XenSource have no interest in xend at all and it's effectively > > unmaintained (with the exception of Novell I think). > ... > > 7. Any change that involves *incompatibility* is clearly different, and > > IMHO not acceptable. > > As a thought experiment - if upstream did gain the ability to work on > Solaris, but it worked differently to Sun's version ... how would that > be resolved in libvirt? Are you talking about incompatible differences, or compatible ones? If it was incompatible, the only correct choice for libvirt project is to follow the community version. If it's compatible, then IMHO it's a case by case issue. The project would definitely follow the upstream version at least, but certain cases could support the Sun version too. > Perhaps what you want is for libvirt to take the view that Sun's version > of Xen is an incompatible fork and handle it differently, as if it was > supporting a completely different virt platform? I would hope this isn't necessary. We've not yet had to deal with a case where there is one of these incompatible differences, and I personally don't intend to let it happen. This was in fact one of the main reasons for the big effort to merge up our libvirt changes! regards john


text: Hi, i am having Motorola droid razr and which yesterday i was trying tethering with the router but the mobile hotspot seems to time out every 10 seconds. it will lode a web site more often than not half way previous to my data just drops to 0 kb/s and the consequence is like I have about 4 bars of lte. I am not sure how do i get it resolved, I have tried turning it on and off and rebooting but nothing seems to help this issue. And sometimes it happens as i have to simply reboot the phone as it stuck at the screen. Any suggestion regarding the same will be appreciated.


text:
BEIJING, Sept. 19 (Yonhap) -- China's disgraced politician Bo Xilai recently sent a letter to his family, insisting that he is innocent but saying that he is prepared to serve a jail term, a Hong Kong newspaper reported Thursday.
Two people with close ties to the Bo family confirmed the authenticity of the letter, believed to have been written last Thursday, the South China Morning Post said, adding that it is the first communication between Bo and his family since his detention in March last year.
The former Chongqing Communist Party chief who had been once tipped to lead China's top decision-making body said that "one day" his name will be cleared, but "I will wait quietly in the prison," the paper quoted Bo as saying in the letter.
A Chinese court is scheduled to deliver a verdict on Sunday on Bo who faces charges of bribery, embezzlement and abuse of power.
Bo, whose dramatic purge from power marked the country's biggest political scandal in recent decades, was ousted from the post in March last year after his wife and the police chief Wang Lijun were jailed over the November 2011 murder of British businessman Neil Heywood. Gu Kailai was convicted of murdering Heywood and given a suspended death sentence.
The trial is expected to allow the Chinese Communist Party leadership to wrap up the Bo case and consolidate its authority.
Chinese President Xi Jinping, who took office in March, is ramping up his campaign against corruption.
<All rights reserved by Yonhap News Agency>


text:
it boots up to a screen that lists:
software version
since resent
xo drift x/no voltage backlight contrast altitude
mxl: [pass
ram: pass
rom: pass
tzmap: fail
sorry i couldnt post a pic cuz i lost the cable that connects to my camera.
i tried holding all 4 buttons and it reboots, but goes to the same screen.
i also deleted the newfiles folder but it didnt change.
right now, i guess im waiting for battery to die and retry then, unless someone has other suggestions.


text:
Tori Spelling Uses the Excuse of a Lie-Detector Test to Basically Brag About Banging Two Guys on Beverly Hills, 90210
On an upcoming episode of Lifetime's Celebrity Lie Detector.By Ira Madison III
On an upcoming episode of Lifetime's Celebrity Lie Detector.By Ira Madison III
It's called Mystery Girls.By Lindsey Weber
Tori Spelling, Jason Priestley, and writer Larry Mollin explain why it took her seven seasons to give it up.By Patti Greco
"When we made it, we had no idea it would be that huge."By Patti Greco
Brandon, Dylan, Steve.By Margaret Lyons
She shows up to visit '90210' fetishist Adam and gives him the strength to actually win something.By David Rees
Next on Sally's list: Ina Garten.By Amanda Dobbins
From Angelina Jolie in radiant, life-giving green to Kate Hudson taking the concept of belly dancing to distracting new levels.By The Fug Girls
Plus: Bryce Dallas Howard narrowly escapes death.
Plus: Tori Spelling is holding out for a hero.By Emma Pearse
Honest to blog!By Mark Graham
Plus: Tori Spelling returns to Beverly Hills, 50 Cent gets a reality show, and MTV wants your teenage daughter to get knocked up.


text:
11/19/2013 | ARRL Files "Symbol Rate" Petition with FCC
The ARRL has asked the FCC to replace its symbol rate limit in Sec 97.307(f) with a maximum bandwidth for data emissions.
Learn More
10/15/2013 | ARRL Executive Committee Okays Filing Symbol Rate Rule Modernization Petition
The ARRL "symbol rate" petition is okayed for filing with the FCC.
Learn More
10/02/2013 | ARRL Executive Committee to Consider Numerous Regulatory Issues
The ARRL Executive Committee confronts a broad agenda when it meets October 5.
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07/23/2013 | ARRL Board Names Award Winners, Okays LoTW Initiatives
The ARRL Board meets for its second session in 2013.
Learn More
04/04/2013 | ARRL Meets with FEMA Administrator Craig Fugate, KK4INZ
Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) Administrator Craig Fugate, KK4INZ, met with ARRL leadership at FEMA Headquarters in Washington, DC last month.
Learn More
04/01/2013 | ARRL in Action: What Have We Been Up to Lately?
This feature -- including convenient web links to useful information -- is a concise monthly update of some of the things the ARRL is doing on behalf of its members. This installment covers the month of March.
Learn More
01/14/2013 | 2013 Annual Meeting of the ARRL Board of Directors Set for January 18-19 in New Orleans, Agenda Announced
ARRL policy is made by its Board of Directors. The 15 voting members of the Board are the Directors who are elected by the ARRL members in their respective divisions. The Board meets in January and July, usually in the Hartford area; however, this year, t
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09/21/2012 | ARRL Executive Committee to Meet in Colorado
The ARRL Executive Committee will meet Saturday, September 29 in Denver, Colorado. ARRL President Kay Craigie, N3KN, serves as Chairman of the Executive Committee.
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text:
Skip to comments.Turin in Philly
Posted on 03/16/2010 10:47:41 AM PDT by NYer
PHILADELPHIA Not everyone will be able to travel to Italy this year when the Shroud of Turin is on public view for the first time in 10 years.
But Philadelphia might be a good alternative.
A Vatican replica of the Shroud of Turin is on display in the Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception in Philly until June 29, and, according to officials of the Ukrainian Archdiocese, the effect the replica has been having on people is quite profound.
People are moved by the awesomeness of seeing the shroud and contemplating what Jesus did for them, said Msgr. Myron Grabowsky, who works in the chancery of the Ukrainian Archeparchy of Philadelphia.
Another advantage is that anyone who comes to the cathedral can spend as much time as he wants in front of the photographic replica. On the other hand, anyone who goes to Turin this year will have a time limit some say as little as three seconds.
After all, Turin expects about 2 million pilgrims for the rare display, to take place April 10 to May 23. Pope Benedict XVI will be one of those pilgrims, visiting on May 2.
The Philadelphia replica was a gift from Cardinal Lubomyr Husar, major archbishop of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, based in Kiev, Ukraine. It is a photographic replica, overlaid on linen, but, said Father Daniel Troyan, director of evangelization for the archeparchy, It gives you the same effect.
Others agree.
Ken Hutchins, who attends Divine Liturgy regularly at the cathedral, remembers thinking when he heard that the replica was coming, A photograph? Will that have the same impact as if someone went to go see the actual Shroud of Turin?
But Hutchins reports that he had a very moving experience in front of the replica and noticed that others did too.
I could see that they treated this as if it were the actual burial cloth of Jesus, said the 55-year-old convert from Protestantism. Several feet before they got to the front of the line, people would go down on their knees to venerate it as if it were the Good Friday service. They would venerate all the wounds. The fact that its a copy became the least important fact.
There are numerous photographic replicas of the shroud around the country, but this one is unusual for its size, said Russ Breault of the Shroud of Turin Education Project in Peachtree City, Ga. Whats not unusual is the reaction people have when they see such a replica, he said.
Its a very powerful reaction, Breault said. It is a phenomenal thing when you can be up close and personal.
Breault will present a multimedia lecture on the Shroud of Turin at the cathedral on April 9 and 10.
Means of Evangelization
Cardinal Husar received two shroud replicas from the Vatican and wanted to share one with an overseas Ukrainian Church, said Father Troyan. Archbishop Stefan Soroka of the Ukrainian Archeparchy of Philadelphia put in a request.
The Vatican is trying to get veneration of the shroud established throughout the world, said Father Troyan. Its a means of evangelization for whoever has it.
It seems to be working. Said Father Troyan, The people who come rather than running in and running out are moved to prayer and reconciliation. People who havent been to confession in 25 years are asking for the sacrament of reconciliation.
People are moved by the awesomeness of seeing the shroud and realizing what Jesus did for them, said Msgr. Grabowsky.
Both priests reported that hopeful parents lay sick children on the replica, which is situated on a table in front of the cathedrals icon screen. And one elderly man touched to it a prayer card a priest in Ukraine had given him during the communist persecution, when the Church was forced underground.
The cathedral began displaying the replica of the Shroud on Feb. 21, the first Sunday of Lent. That day in the Eastern Church is always the Sunday of Orthodoxy, commemorating the restoration of the use of icons after the period of iconoclasm.
For visitors like Hutchins, the 14 by 3 replica itself is a kind of icon. Like an icon, it became a vehicle to pray to God, he said.
Father Troyan agreed that people who come to the cathedral see the replica as a kind of icon. There is no physical description of Jesus in the Bible, he said. All of the coins, mosaics, icons since the early centuries, if overlaid with the face on the shroud, have all of the same markings: the position of the eyes, the hair, the beard, the nose and the cheeks.
Today, about 130 seminarians from the Latin Catholic St. Charles Borromeo Seminary in nearby Overbrook will share in the experience of venerating the shroud. The seminary conducts a biannual walking pilgrimage to Philly-area shrines such as those to St. John Neumann or St. Rita of Cascia. This year, said Father Pat Welsh, dean of men and director of liturgy, the seminary wanted to introduce the students to the Byzantine liturgy and chose to walk the seven and a half miles to the Ukrainian cathedral and attend Divine Liturgy.
By a happy coincidence, said Father Welsh, they are exhibiting the shroud at this time.
I suppose a replica of an idol is just as good as the idol itself
What would make you say that the Shroud of Turin is an idol?
Anti-Christian statment there, bub.
Yep, it sounds a lot like something a Muslim would say. Christianity has NEVER taught that a likeness of our Lord was idolatry.
The Shroud of Turin is either the burial shroud of our Lord or it isn't.
If it IS NOT, then why hasn't anyone been able to explain how a medieval forger could have made it? For that matter, why are modern scientist unable to make a perfect reproduction TODAY? It seems that those should be very simple questions to answer.
However, if it IS the burial shroud of our Lord that would mean that He WANTED His image to be shown on the shroud. If He WANTED it there, it means He WANTED us to see it and that would mean that He produced what some denounce as an idol.
You can get an indication by following a link off of his profile, and poking around until you come to this: Can Bible Believing Christians & Catholics Truly Walk Together?
To summarize the article, his answer to that musical question would be: "No".
Nuff said?
Yep, an adherent to a mad-made religion based on YOPIOS.
NOBODY worships the Shroud of Turin.
Why don't you get back to me when you can answer my questions from #6.
Let's pretend for just a moment that you are right. Why is modern science unable to recreate the Shroud, let alone explain how it could have been made with medieval technology.
Has it ever crossed your mind that the word "napkin" DID NOT mean the same thing in the 16th century that it means today?
The Church has, of course, been reticent to pronounce one way or another on this, citing gaps in the shroud's provenance. Which is the proper course of action at present. Nevertheless, it's interesting not only from a religious, but from a scientific point of view.
When I was a physics undergrad at the U. of Rochester, the chairman of the department was Harry Gove. He was a shameless publicity hound, but he was (probably) the first to propose a method of carbon dating using very small sample sizes, and analyzed by means of particle accelerators, in this case Rochester's "Emperor" tandem Van de Graff, used for studies of atomic nuclei. Naturally, the Shroud would have been a perfect candidate for this kind of testing, since one would not wish to sacrifice any more of it than absolutely necessary. The upshot is that Rochester wasn't one of the groups chosen, but those two that were used a similar methodology to Gove's.
Although those results indicated a medieval date for the cloth, there is still controversy over whether or not the sample was contaminated by carbon from the fire the Shroud had been through, or whether the sample actually came from a patch used to repair the cloth, or if a biotic plaque on the surface of the material skewed the results. The only way to resolve this would be with another round of testing, monitored to everyone's satisfaction.
From my point of view, though, the scientifically interesting question is how the image was actually formed. As you've pointed out, no one has really been able to answer that adequately in purely material terms, nor have they been able to reproduce the process. It's decidedly not a simple question to answer, as it looks like the obvious explanations, e.g., it's a painting, it's some primative quasi-photographic process, etc., have been pretty much discounted.
I have no knowledge apart from what I've read in the public arena, but it strikes me that the tonal distribution of the image resembles that of an X-ray. That is to say, it's what one might expect if the cloth responded to incident radiation according to Beer's Law. (In fact, X-rays were first discovered by observing the exposure of photographic film in their vacinity.) The Beer's Law distribution suggests a "(super-)natural" process of image formation, rather than a man-made one, like a painting, though it doesn't necessarily mean the incident radiation was in the X range of wavelengths. Another interesting aspect of the image is that the presumed incident radiation was normal (i.e., perpendicular) to the surface of the cloth.
Finally, the objection is sometimes raised that even if the cloth could be traced to the first century, it's nothing more than the image of a crucified man, not necessarily Jesus Christ. But the indications of a gash to the side of the body, and of blood stains near the forehead (suggesting the crown of thorns) are consistent with the Gospel accounts of the Passion, and it would be highly unusual find these marks on any other victims of crucifixion.
Although my personal belief is that it is in fact the burial (and more correctly, the resurrection) shroud of Christ, even if it is the work of human hands, the inspiration, devotion and skill to create such a remarkable and technically perfect objet d'art is to me, further evidence of presence of the Divine.
So, the Gospel of Saint John was written in English? Is THAT what you are saying? The word napkin comes from the French word nappe which actually means TABLE CLOTH and THAT is the word that 16th century translators would have used.
1. NOBODY can figure out how to recreate the image today, let alone explain how a medieval artist could have done so.
2. The Gospels talk about the cloth being left in the tomb, why make that mention? What was our Lord wearing when He appeared to the women and later to the Disciples?
3. If He DID impose His image on the Shroud, the ONLY LOGICAL CONCLUSION is that He did it for a REASON.
If that were the case, history would be ripe with stories of images being superimposed on burial cloths, it would be a rare phenomenon rather than a single incident.
That is where my logic leads me, and in fact, that is pretty much the very argument I use to present my beliefs on the shroud. I also like the example of Thomas. When he expressed his disbelief, Christ let him probe his wounds and gave him hard evidence; he didn't drive Thomas away as an unbeliever. Certainly Christ knew the world would be full of Thomases in need of evidence.
Some shroud skeptics acknowledge that the image appears to have been created by means (as yet) beyond the comprehension of humans and suggest that the shroud is a demonic trick to lead people away from Christ. While on its face this argument may seem plausible, I suspect far more people have had their faith kindled or re-affirmed by the shroud than have misplaced theirs.
The soudarion, commonly spelled 'sudarium' today is in Oviedo.
Also, the shroud IS a strip of cloth. It was most likely bound around Christ with other strips of cloth.
This is the closet we have of a photo of Our Lord Jesus.
To those who are against, just think of having a picture of dear family member. Also in the Bible book of Revelation, there is a discription of what Jesus looks like.
Please see post 22. Thank-you.
New Testament was written in Greek please see post 13
It doesn't. In fact, it compliments it. The blood stains on the Sudarium of Oviedo line up with the stains on the shroud. Furthermore, they are the same blood type.
The remarkable thing about this cloth is that both tradition and scientific studies claim that the cloth was used to cover and clean the face of Jesus after the crucifixion. We are going to present and look into these claims.
For a more comprehensive and scientifically researched study on Shroud of Turn, go to this link.
Yes, I'm sorry if I was unclear. I'm trying to address objections to the authenticity of the Shroud on a purely objective basis.
You see, it could be a one-time event for a crucified man of the first century who was not Jesus Christ. But why would anyone put a crown of thorns on such a person, as the cloth seems to indicate? That specific feature is unique to Jesus. Also, it was not usual Roman practice to pierce the side with a lance, as again the Shroud's image suggests, but to break the legs of those who survived too long on the cross. Again, the Shroud is consistent with the Gospel accounts and not with common Roman practice, as one would expect for some other crucified man.
Both of these pieces of evidence in the image on the Shroud point to its being the burial cloth of Jesus in particular, and not some anonymous individual.
While no one can answer that question just yet, I believe you will find some truly interesting data at the web site below.
If the Shroud is an authentic burial cloth of a much wounded crucified man (it is if it is not a hoax) then is it a lucky fluke that the images are so visually correct? A truly natural explanation requires that a chemical reaction starts and ends. And this is key: The reaction must end sufficiently late for there to be discernible images. And, it must end early enough that the images are not oversaturated. Analysis of the images shows no saturation plateaus. Timing is everything. In photographic terms this is correct exposure. Is this mere luck?
It is also interesting to note that the man of the shroud's legs were not broken, a common practice at that time. Also, the marks on the head attest to the excruciating wounds inflicted by the crown of thorns imposed on Jesus Christ. Who, other than Christ, do we know for certain, was crowned with thorns?
First of all, Catholics do not "worship" the Shroud of Turin. If anything, it would be considered a relic.
Secondly, reverence of relics is based on Scripture. One of the most moving accounts of the veneration of relics is that of the very body of Christ itself. Rather than leaving his body on the cross, to be taken down and disposed of by the Romans (as was the customary practice), Joseph of Arimathea courageously interceded with Pilate for Christs body (Mark 15:43, John 19:38). He donated his own, newly hewn tomb as Christs resting place (Matt. 27:60). Nicodemus came and donated over a hundred pounds of spices to wrap inside Jesus grave clothes (John 19:39), that amount of spices being used only for the most honored dead. And after he was buried, the women went to reverently visit the tomb (Matt. 28:1) and to further anoint Christs body with spices even though it had already been sealed inside the tomb (Mark 16:1, Luke 24:1). These acts of reverence were more than just the usual courtesy shown to the remains of the dead; they were special respect shown to the body of a most holy manin this case, the holiest man who has ever lived, for he was God Incarnate.
Keep in mind what the Church says about relics. It doesnt say there is some magical power in them. There is nothing in the relic itself, whether a bone of the apostle Peter or water from Lourdes, that has any curative ability. The Church just says that relics may be the occasion of Gods miracles, and in this the Church follows Scripture.
The use of the bones of Elisha brought a dead man to life: "So Elisha died, and they buried him. Now bands of Moabites used to invade the land in the spring of the year. And as a man was being buried, lo, a marauding band was seen and the man was cast into the grave of Elisha; and as soon as the man touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood on his feet" (2 Kgs. 13:20-21). This is an unequivocal biblical example of a miracle being performed by God through contact with the relics of a saint!
Similar are the cases of the woman cured of a hemorrhage by touching the hem of Christs cloak (Matt. 9:20-22) and the sick who were healed when Peters shadow passed over them (Acts 5:14-16). "And God did extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, so that handkerchiefs or aprons were carried away from his body to the sick, and diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them" (Acts 19:11-12).
If these arent examples of the use of relics, what are? In the case of Elisha, a Lazarus-like return from the dead was brought about through the prophets bones. In the New Testament cases, physical things (the cloak, the shadow, handkerchiefs and aprons) were used to effect cures. There is a perfect congruity between present-day Catholic practice and ancient practice. If you reject all Catholic relics today as frauds, you should also reject these biblical accounts as frauds.
But if the shroud is a fraud, which I contend that it is, then it isn't a relic is it. And if it isn't a relic then the church should not be promoting it should they
That does not necessarily follow, logically. I realize it seems pedantic, but one must cover all the bases. It's logically possible that the Shroud represents a one-time event, but that the image is of someone other than Jesus Christ.
But it would be highly unusual for any other crucified man of the first century to be crowned with thorns or have his side pierced. Those two pieces of evidence, which are present on the Shroud, are what strongly suggest that the image is of Jesus, and not of someone else.
On what basis do you contend that it is a fraud?
I'm well aware that it was written in Greek.
You are the one hung up on the word napkin, not me.
There is NOTHING to indicated that a "soudarion" was a small square.
"... the Shroud is consistent with the Gospel accounts and not with common Roman practice, as one would expect for some other crucified man."
That seems correct to me. I am a Christian, not Roman Catholic, and I have looked at as much of the scientific evidence I have been able to study on the shroud. I am a scientist.
I believe we do not know whether the shroud is or is not the burial cloth in which our Lord was wrapped, but there is enough evidence to suggest that it could be that. The discussions here about the napkin and the linen cloth(es) are interesting. The napkin likely was over the head, and the linen cloth was under and over him. Then all that was wrapped, probably with additional linen clothes, wrapping the body and pressing the piece we know as the shroud tight against the body. There is no reason to think that the napkin would interfere with blood stains or image being transferred through the napkin to the shroud. The word for linen clothes in John 20:7 suggests a large piece of cloth, like a linen sail cloth. (Strong's # G3607, G3608).
The blood stains and the obvious evidence of the head punctured and bleeding, as would be from a crown of thorns, has significance. That in itself makes this shroud unique. Also the belief I have that it is only resurrection power likely to be such that it could impress an image on the shroud.
I have not touched on all the objections that might be posted here or elsewhere regarding the authenticity of the shroud. As I said earlier, I believe we have evidence supportive of it being the shroud that was used to bury our Lord, and that was then impressed with an image at the ressurection.
For me it does not reek of idolatry to regard it as His burial shroud. Why would He not give us something such as this, to be passed down to this time?
If the authenticity is ever proven, there are a few groups today, such as the Amish, who might change their mind about photographs :) Of course we may not know for sure until our Lord comes again into our midst, or we are with Him where He is.
I also admire the Catholic Church position that does not say it is or it isn't. This has been treated cautiously by the Church.
Careful consideration of what the shroud apparently shows, and if it is His burial cloth, shows an extraordinary glimpse of the awfulness of torture He experienced leading up to His death on the cross. Look at it that way, and consider, not the cloth, but Him. Revere Him, our Lord and Savior, and read Isaiah 53 again, carefully and reverently. Bow, and worship Him.
I don't know if you're interested in the physics of image formation, but you can find an explanation of Beer's Law by clicking here. What it boils down to is that the Density of the image (which is the logarithm of its reflectivity in the case of the Shroud), suitably normalized, is proportional to the logarithm of the relative luminance (i.e., the logarithm of the Exposure) of the incident radiation. The slope of the line relating these two quantities is known as the "gamma" of the exposure. In real film, the "line" is in fact roughly S-shaped, linear in the middle portion, but rolling off at the top in a "shoulder", and at the bottom in a "toe".
The Shroud's image seems to be "toasted" on the surface of the fibers of the cloth, suggesting it was caused by a burst of infrared radiation. The tonal distribution of the image is what one would expect from the physics of this process. But what could have caused the burst of radiation itself? That's the intriguing question, and we physicists love such a mystery. Naturally, we Christians would fill in the blank, so to speak, by saying it was caused by the glory associated with Christ's resurrection from the dead.
With regard to Protestant objections, my observation is that they tend to be distrustful of the Word actually being made Flesh, which is to say the Incarnation. This seems to arise from the Manichean influences the Reformers were subject to. The Catholic faith is nothing if not incarnational, so disagreements are bound to arise on these points.
While it's not Scripture, of course, I'm reminded of the passage in the ancient hymn and Easter sequence, Victimae pascali laudes:
Angelicos testes,This suggests that the "moderately early" Church understood there to have been "grave clothes" in addition to a "head cloth".
sudarium et vestes.
Thank you for your very kind post.
As you know from the philosophy of science, no hypothesis can ever be proven correct by means of the scientific method. This is because the scientific method procedes by inductive rather than deductive reasoning. It can, however, prove an hypothesis false, merely by finding a single counter-example. So scientific theories are different in character from mathematical theorems. The latter are obtained by deduction.
At present the carbon-dating results do seem to disprove the Shroud's authenticity, and that will eventually have to be addressed by further tests. Many questions still remain. The best scientific inquiry can do is suggest a plausible explanation.
The purpose of relics (Acts 5:14-16 and 19:11-12), as you say, is to point the mind and heart to Him, not to be an end of themselves. The Shroud in particular, if authentic, makes clear just how much Our Lord suffered for us, and that can be a very fruitful meditation for all of us, especially in this season of Lent. We need to remind ourselves of our own role in causing His suffering by our sinfulness, so that we can rejoice fully on Easter in His great mercy and forgiveness.
Relics, as well as our attempts to reason about theological matters, are not substitutes for faith, but may serve to make the leap of faith a bit smaller. In this sense, they can be useful tools for evangelization, especially of skeptics.
If authentic, how could we not be grateful to Our Lord for leaving us this artifact?
Since the "napkin" exists, would you venerate or not?
When Catholic AND Protestant scholars were translating the Bible in the 16th century they both used the term "napkin" and it would be an error to assume that this returns to a small cloth we place on our laps while eating. It meant TABLECLOTH and that changes the size of the cloth considerably.
The napkin that covered Jesus's face EXISTS!! There is the SHROUD of Turin AND the Napkin....I think in Portugal or Spain.
Yeah, that's my favorite too.
Let's look at it logically:
Satan used powers that modern science cannot explain to place the image of the Crucified Jesus Christ on the Shroud...this has lead untold numbers of people to a greater faith in the Resurrected Jesus Christ. How anyone can conclude this is the work of Satan is beyond me.
And Veronica's Veil.
??? Is it Veronica's veil or are there two?
This suggests that the "moderately early" Church understood there to have been "grave clothes" in addition to a "head cloth".
And it would make perfect sense that the early christians had an understanding of the burial clothes that they safeguarded for so many centuries. Ii has been a while since I visited the Shroud Story web site and in researching some information today, I came across the following:
But the Earliest Words Might Be 1st Century
In a poem, the Hymn of the Pearl, we find Jesus allegorically saying that in a garment, justifiably a burial garment, that he sees two entire images of himself, one facing outward and one facing inward -- in other words ventral and dorsal images.
And what about the other images on the Shroud! And the pollen! It is such a treasure, preserved throughout 2000 years for us to view and on which to meditate, especially in this holy season of Lent.
There are copies of Veronica's Veil, but the one believed to be the actual veil is at St. Peter's Basilica. It is displayed once a year on (I believe on Passion Sunday).
"At present the carbon-dating results do seem to disprove the Shroud's authenticity..."
Thank you for your comments. I did not address carbon-dating in my previous post, though I am aware of the controversy. There is evidence that the intense heat in a fire may have scewed those results. Russian scientists had a piece of linen from the time of Christ and did carbon dating on it before and after exposing it to the intense heat. My understanding is that the heat changed to make it look younger than it was, similar to dating of the shroud. The fabric itself matches weave etc from the first century.
Again, it is not about artifacts, it is about Him. And yes, we do need to remind ourselves of our own role in the need for His death and resurrection.
Wow!! I saw the Crown of Thorns at Notre Dame on Good Friday, the only day it's exposed!!!
Also, Veronica's Veil WAS NOT placed over our Lord when He was placed in the tomb. She wiped His face on the Via Dolorosa.
That would be incredible to see!
I know.....have you been to Israel?? It is UNBELIEVABLE!!
Thanks for the link.
NYer posted links here about the Sudarium which IS in Spain and DID cover the face of Jesus in the tomb:
It is a totally different relic from Veronica's Veil.
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Years ago there was this super creepy guy in our club and this woman came out alone and he started leching all over her, touching her, etc. She came up to me and a friend and asked us to shield her from him. We became friends and rode together for a few years afer that.
The club leaders told the creepy guy he was not welcome to ride with us because of the way he acted around women, but he came back after a few months.


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What's the buzz from the world of sports? Here are some items that will have people talking:
OK, LeBron James says, let's get one thing straight.
His new line of Nike basketball shoes will NOT cost $300.
They'll cost $270.
Glad we got that cleared up.
Amid the launch for the LeBron X, the model that comes with high-end sneaker-compatible software for $270 and without the added technology for $180, James stressed that it is a matter of offering a variety of options.
"We have wide ranges of shoes that range from $300 all the way down to $160, $180," he said, with the Nike website currently offering a signature James model at $120.
You know for $270, the shoes ought to come with a guaranteed NBA championship for the buyer.
It was a perfect day Monday for the first day of the high school golf district championships in Southwest Washington. The second day Tuesday is going to be another perfect day at Tri-Mountain Golf Course.
After today, a few lucky golfers will get to wait about 61/2 months for the right to play in the state tournament.
But who knows what the weather is going to be like next May.
So, since the 3A state tournament will be played at Tri-Mountain and 4A state at Camas Meadows and since the weather is so nice now, maybe the state qualifiers after today's rounds should come back and play 36 holes on Thursday and Friday at Tri-Mountain and Camas Meadows.
Then, next spring the rest of the state can come up to Clark County and try to match the scores the local golfers put up this week for the state championship, while our local golfers enjoy a refreshing beverage in the clubhouse.
Don Larsen has the perfect way to pay for his grandchildren to finish college.
The 82-year-old former Yankees pitcher will auction off the pinstriped uniform he wore 56 years ago Monday when he threw the only perfect game in the World Series.
"I've been thinking about it for a bit," Larsen said. "I'm not getting any younger and I don't know how much longer I'll be around. I want to make sure they can both go to college, which isn't cheap these days.
"So, I figured it was the right time."
One of Larsen's grandkids is in college and the other is a freshman in high school.
For more Talking Points, follow us on Twitter at www.twitter.com/talkpoints360


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MLB Team Report - Milwaukee Brewers - INSIDE PITCH
It has been no secret that other teams have been interested in relief pitchers the Brewers have been using to hold leads on a last-place team. Thus, it was no real shock Tuesday when general manager Doug Melvin sent veteran closer Francisco Rodriguez to Baltimore.
The real news for the Brewers was that they acquired third base prospect Nick Delmonico in the deal. Not that long ago, the Orioles had told Melvin they wouldn't part with Delmonico for Rodriguez but when other teams joined the chase, they changed their minds.
Delmonico, 21, a left-handed hitter, was the Orioles' sixth-round draft pick in 2011. He was rated the No 4 prospect in Baltimore's system by Baseball America.
This season, Delmonico was batting .244 with 13 home runs and 30 RBIs in 60 games with high Class A Frederick. His 13 homers led the team.
"He's a young, left-handed hitting prospect that we really liked in the 2011 draft," said Melvin. "Our scouts liked him then and we followed him as a professional.
"This was an opportunity we couldn't turn down to add young players to our system. He's a player with good baseball instincts. He's known for being a very good hitter."
The Brewers are very thin at third base in their system, so picking up a prospect at that position for a veteran reliever who will be a free agent after the season was a nice move by Melvin.
"Francisco has been nothing but a real professional with us," said Melvin. "He's a great competitor. We like him a lot. It's unfortunate our season is where it's at and moves like this have to be made. I would rather be in a pennant race and keep him but that's the way things go.
"We feel very good about getting a young player like Nick, a third baseman with a left-handed bat. He'll fit in with some of our younger players. He'll be assigned to Brevard (County) of the Florida State League."
Melvin said he had as many as six clubs interested in Rodriguez at one point but narrowed it down to three that had serious interest in the end. With Rodriguez gone, Melvin said Jim Henderson and John Axford would both be considered for the closer's role. Both have done it in the past.
Melvin also said he is not motivated to trade starting pitcher Yovani Gallardo, who has been the subject of much speculation prior to the July 31 deadline.
MLB Team Report - Milwaukee Brewers - NOTES, QUOTES
STREAK: Won one
NEXT: Padres (Edinson Volquez, 7-8, 5.73) at Brewers (Yovani Gallardo, 8-8, 4.58)
--CF Carlos Gomez snapped out of a lengthy slump with a 4-for-4 performance Wednesday in the Brewers' 3-1 victory over the Padres in Milwaukee. Gomez came into the game with just three hits -- two of them home runs -- in his previous 42 at-bats but doubled his first two times up and finished with two RBI. Gomez was hitting .319 after going 4-for-5 against the Mets July 5 but the slump dropped his average to .289 heading into Wednesday's game.
--RHP Yovani Gallardo returns to the mound Thursday, looking for third consecutive victory. Gallardo evened his record to 8-8 on the season after holding the Marlins scoreless through 6 1/3 innings last Saturday at Miller Park. He's 4-2 with a 4.17 ERA in seven career starts against the Padres, including a victory earlier this season when he allowed three runs on eight hits in 6 2/3 innings at Petco Park April 23.
--RHP Kyle Lohse evened his record for the first time this season after giving up just one run in seven innings as the Brewers beat the Padres, 3-1, Wednesday in Milwaukee. He struck out seven Wednesday while throwing a season-high 112 pitches. Lohse has won four of his last five decisions and is 6-1 with a 2.49 ERA in his last 11 starts after beginning the season 1-6 with a 4.32 ERA.
--RF Norichika Aoki singled, was hit by a pitch and scored twice in the Brewers' 3-1 victory Wednesday against the Padres. Since July 1, Aoki is hitting .333 (26-for-78) with two walks, two doubles, five RBIs and eight runs scored and has reached base safely in 16 of 18 games this month.
--RHP Jim Henderson worked around a two-out walk Wednesday to record his 11th save of the season and his first since June 21. Henderson returned to the closer's role after the Brewers traded Francisco Rodriguez to the Orioles on Tuesday for a minor league third baseman. Henderson took over for John Axford earlier in the season and converted his first nine save opportunities before suffering a hamstring injury that opened the door for Rodriguez. In all, Henderson is 3-3 with a 2.15 ERS in 39 appearances this season.
QUOTE TO NOTE: "It looks like he's really on pitches. He's staying down. When he's swinging like that, he's on his game." -- Manager Ron Roenicke on RHP Kyle Lohse after a 3-1 win over San Diego on Wednesday.
MLB Team Report - Milwaukee Brewers - ROSTER REPORT
--RHP Donovan Hand (right hand contusion) left the July 23 game.
--RHP Alfredo Figaro (strained right oblique) went on the 15-day disabled list retroactive to June 24. He began a rehab assignment in the rookie-level Arizona League on July 22. He is set to be activated.
--RHP Donovan Hand (bruised right hand) left the July 23 game. He was hit by a pitch in the third inning.
--RHP Marco Estrada (strained left hamstring) went on the 15-day disabled list retroactive to June 4. He felt discomfort during a rehab appearance with Class A Wisconsin on June 23, and he went to the spring training facility in Phoenix to continue rehabbing. He threw a simulated game July 13. He has had some setbacks in his recovery process and is still two-to-three weeks away from returning.
--3B Aramis Ramirez (sprained left knee) went on the 15-day disabled retroactive to July 7. Ramirez injured the knee during spring training and again earlier in the season, missing 23 games, and hasn't been 100 percent since. He is not close to being ready to play again.
--1B Corey Hart (right knee surgery in January 2012) went on the 15-day disabled list retroactive to March 22, and he was transferred to the 60-day DL on April 9. He needs surgery on his left knee, and he won't play this season.
--RHP Mark Rogers (right shoulder instability) went on the 15-day disabled list March 25, and he was transferred to the 60-day DL on May 26.
--INF Taylor Green (labral tear and bone spurs in left hip) went on the 15-day disabled list retroactive to March 22, and he was transferred to the 60-day DL on May 15. He had season-ending surgery April 23.
--1B Mat Gamel (right knee surgery in March 2013) went on the 60-day disabled list March 20. He is out for the season.
RHP Yovani Gallardo
RHP Wily Peralta
RHP Kyle Lohse
LHP Tom Gorzelanny
RHP Donavan Hand
RHP John Axford
LHP Michael Gonzalez
RHP Burke Badenhop
RHP Brandon Kintzler
RHP Jim Henderson
RHP Tyler Thornburg
RHP Alfredo Figaro
Jonathan Lucroy
Martin Maldonado
1B Yuniesky Betancourt
2B Rickie Weeks
SS Jean Segura
3B Juan Francisco
INF Jeff Bianchi
LF Logan Schafer
CF Carlos Gomez
RF Norichika Aoki
OF Caleb Gindl
OF Khris Davis
OF/INF Sean Halton


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Senate climate and clean energy jobs bill is coming Wednesday. Lieberman and Kerry are optimistic, Graham is incoherent
The big day is almost upon us. And the two amigos are confident about the Wednesday launch of their long-awaited climate and clean energy jobs bill.
In a joint statement, Sens. John Kerry (D-MA) and Joe Lieberman (I-CT) write:
We are more encouraged today that we can secure the necessary votes to pass this legislation this year in part because the last weeks have given everyone with a stake in this issue a heightened understanding that as a nation, we can no longer wait to solve this problem which threatens our economy, our security and our environment. Our optimism is bolstered because there is a growing and unprecedented bi-partisan coalition from the business, national security, faith and environmental communities that supports our legislation and is energized to work hard and get it passed.
Lieberman said on Fox News Sunday that even with the (presumably modified) offshore drilling proposals in the bill, "I think we've got a real shot at this."
The third amigo is AWOL, to mix metaphors. But though Lindsey Graham (R-SC) won't be seen, he will be heard. In fact, he's talking so much it is no longer possible to figure out what he means and/or thinks.
Based on an interview last Wednesday, we had the NYT headline (via Greenwire), "I'm in this to Win," Graham says of Senate climate bill. Then we had the Thursday Politico piece, "Graham unlikely to fold on energy bill." But Friday we had the WashPost headline, "Graham says climate bill cannot pass Senate."
Whiplash! Actually, the Post headline didn't quite reflect exactly what Graham said, but given the Senator's self-contradictory incoherence, the Post is only partly to blame. Here's Graham's full statement:
WASHINGTON – U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina) today made these statements on cap-and-trade, offshore drilling, and future prospects of energy reform legislation.
On the Death of Cap-and-Trade
"The House-passed cap and trade bill is dead. It has been replaced by a new model that focuses on energy independence, job creation and cleaner air.
"I appreciate the work of Senators Kerry and Lieberman who have been good allies in trying to move this debate in a new, more productive direction. I am particularly proud of the efforts we have made in creating a renaissance in nuclear power which leads to energy security and fosters job creation.
"As I have previously indicated, a serious debate on energy legislation is significantly compromised with the cynical politics of comprehensive immigration reform hanging over the Senate. In addition to immigration, we now have to deal with a catastrophic oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico which creates new policy and political challenges not envisioned in our original discussions. In light of this, I believe it would be wise to pause the process and reassess where we stand."
On Offshore Drilling and Gulf Coast Disaster
"Some believe the oil spill has enhanced the chances energy legislation will succeed. I do not share their view. Our original legislation included an expansion of off shore drilling with revenue sharing. It doesn't take long for one to conclude that opposition to expanded offshore drilling with revenue sharing has grown among certain Senate Democrats. Some have even declared energy legislation "dead on arrival" if it contains an expansion of offshore drilling. I respect their position and I know they are sincere in their beliefs. However, I have come to a different conclusion on the issue and strongly believe that in order to become energy independent we must include these options.
"When it comes to getting 60 votes for legislation that includes additional oil and gas drilling with revenue sharing, the climb has gotten steeper because of the oil spill.
"I remain committed to safely expanding offshore drilling because I know oil will be part of our nation's energy plan for years to come. Every barrel we can find in the United States is one less we have to import from OPEC. And today, some of the dollars we spend on imported oil find their way into the hands of terrorists who wish to harm our nation.
"As a Senator from a coastal state, and in light of the historic oil spill off the coast of Louisiana, I think it makes sense to find out what happened, enact safety measures to prevent similar accidents from occurring in the future, and then build consensus for the expanded offshore drilling our nation needs."
Future Prospects for Energy Legislation
"When it comes to our nation's policy on energy independence and pollution control, I don't believe any American finds the status quo acceptable. Many senators from both parties have stated that Congress should set energy and carbon pollution policy, not the EPA. I could not agree more. Therefore, we should move forward in a reasoned, thoughtful manner and in a political climate which gives us the best chance at success. Regrettably, in my view, this has become impossible in the current environment.
"I believe there could be more than 60 votes for this bipartisan concept in the future. But there are not nearly 60 votes today and I do not see them materializing until we deal with the uncertainty of the immigration debate and the consequences of the oil spill."
What does that mean? Who knows?
I don't think there is a lot of uncertainty about whether immigration is coming to the Senate floor anytime soon. It's not. And if Graham is going to float "the uncertainty of … the consequences of the oil spill," well, again, what does that mean?
So just add this to the multitude of conflicting statements he's given in the past few weeks:
- BREAKING: Sen. Graham walks away from climate and energy bill over immigration plans
- Chait and Klein: Lindsey Graham is Right
- Lindsey Graham says, "yeah," there's a chance for climate to move forward this year
- Is Obama blowing his best chance to shift the debate from the dirty, unsafe energy of the 19th century to the clean, safe energy of the 21st century?
The rest of us will have to press on with this best-they-can-do proposal that is still infinitely-better-than-no bill. Details to come.
13 Responses to Senate climate and clean energy jobs bill is coming Wednesday. Lieberman and Kerry are optimistic, Graham is incoherent
"…creating a renaissance in nuclear power…"
Do our politicians realize that nuclear power is another man made natural disaster waiting to happen? If we couldn't prevent 3 Mile Island, Chernobyl, Exxon Valdez, or the Gulf Oil Gusher, what makes us think we can run nuclear power safely?
And that's without even going into nuclear waste storage issues.
Could it be that Senator Graham has lost his nerve? The GOP has been hijacked by the Tea Party (Bennett, hardly a moderate, losing the Utah primary, Crist going independent, McCain struggling to stay on course against a lunatic challenger, etc), and Graham may be worrying about his chances of surviving an eventual purity test within his own party. I fear he will continue to mumble as the bill is unveiled, and that he won't fight for it. Thus political expediency will trump the survival of our species. If we have any historians a century hence, they will be trawling their thesauruses in search of synonyms for 'unpardonable'.
Hope I'm wrong; and Senator, if by any luck you read CP, surprise us all, and secure your place in history.
Have you ever posted anything on CLEAR? I would be very curiuos to hear your thoughts on the legislation.
[JR: I have. Search for "Cantwell."]
Wanhyo (#1),
That disaster is not waiting to happen. It is ongoing. As we produce more waste that we can't deal with, it continues. As tritium leaks into a major NJ aquifer, it continues. As parts of Europe remain off limits to grazing or even habitation on account of Chernobyl, it continues.
Just think of a plant nursery in Southern NJ which sends squash and tomato seedlings around the region. Watered with tritiated water, these seedling put a little nuclear waste in everyone's garden in the form of starches or sugars that end up incorporated in the grower's body for the long term.
Though overpopulation is a problem, Nature is brutal and does not allow a population to exceed the capacity of any given ecosystem. Over consumption, on the other hand, coupled with technological and scientific advancements has enabled numerous individuals of a large segment of humanity to have a carbon stomp of a thousand or more third world folks. Give even a million of those carbon stompers access to sustainable energy and you have in effect removed one billion third world folks from the planet. It is not the masses from the third world who are poisoning the water, air and oceans of the world. The third world does not destroy the very life support systems of earth that humanity requires for sustainability. It is we who are changing the climate with green house gasses. Changing the chemistry of the oceans and destroying the base of the food chain with acidification. Covering the seas with plastics and assorted raw hydrocarbons. We first world folks are the ones plucking species with the raw abandon of extinction from ecosystems. Stratifying society with rich at the expense of increasing numbers of poor. Nature has abilities to cope with over population. Nature is powerless to respond to the Ponzi scheme onslaught of a technologically advanced segment of humanity. It is incumbent on the perpetrators of this onslaught to change. Capitalism and corporations can be valuable allies in this endeavor. Currently they both are actively engaged in self-preservation at the expense of humanity, sustainability and earth's life support systems. It is we who must justify our existence and use our technology and science to bring equality to the masses.
I imagine Joe agrees with Dave Roberts on CLEAR:
No No. The bill is completely unacceptable, reckless, and astonishingly weak. It is clear the Senate does not take climate change seriously. Until this changes they should all go home.
The EPA must not, in any way, to any measure, be restricted of any existing regulatory powers. The bill strips the EPA from regulating stationary sources of CO2. Nothing short of speechless. The EPA is the only gov't regulatory agency that takes climate chance seriously and actually makes policy based on science not ideology. If any bill strips power from the EPA is should be banished.
[JR: Nah. It is clear the Senate does not take climate change seriously. What else is new. Replace "Senate" with any major US institution you want to and the sentence remains the same. Hardly a reason for doing nothing.
If there's no bill, the EPA is NOT going to use its authority to shut down any significant number of existing coal plants. Sorry to disappoint you about that, but that has been pretty obvious all along, and it was recently confirmed to me by an exceedingly high-ranked person in the administration. Indeed, it's far from clear that the next Congress won't just strip what authority the EPA has.
The bill would enable a global deal and offer a genuine glimmer of hope for future generations as I have explained many times. Promises of what the EPA would do cannot enable a global deal. In fact, one can't even claim with any confidence they would survive into a subsequent president.]
The NY Times has a post up entitled "Does the Climate Bill Have a Chance?"
It has 5 different opinions on this question from
Kate Sheppard, Mother Jones correspondent
David Roberts, Grist.org
Myron Ebell, Competitive Enterprise Institute
Frank O'Donnell, Clean Air Watch
Chip Jacobs, co-author of "Smogtown"
I'd be interested in your thoughts.
[JR: David Roberts is a very good analyst!]
Graham exhibits exactly the same signs of cognitive dissonance that just about everyone else is struggling with on the climate crisis.
On the one hand people want to continue all their self-defining battles and privileges. On the other they see the real climate threats which require many of their battles and privileges to be abandoned. It leads to see-saw wackiness. People can't live in this state long and usually need to choose one or the other.
It isn't just Graham. It isn't just GOP. It includes most liberals, independents and even a great deal of environmentalists. They too have to abandon some of the battles they have defined themselves by over the decades.
Stewart Brand has made it through the other side of cognitive dissonance for example. On the Colbert Report recently he said that because of climate change everything has changed and even many environmentalists have failed to grasp how gigantic and intractable the problem is. Brand admitted that many of the battles he fought in the past are now wrong in the light of climate crisis.
This internal human-nature inertia is another of the nasty inertia threats that serve to make climate change so hard for humanity to deal with in time.
Graham needs to decide if he is going to live with the real threats or retreat into head-in-sand denial.
Most of GOP has decided to oppose physical laws…will Graham?
Senator Graham:
"I believe it would be wise to pause the process and reassess where we stand."
That statement would make sense if "the process" were offshore oil drilling or strip-mining for coal. But no … he's suggesting a delay in finding a solution, not a delay in making the problem worse.
This continual delaying is like a ski-diving leader telling everyone to stop trying to pull the ripcord until they "reassess where they stand."
Even with our ecological support lurching toward free-fall, too many leaders still think that "the economy" is more important.
Graham is choking. He's got plenty of company, too.
I suspect that Graham is under pressure within his party to prevent the British Petroleum Disaster from influencing climate legislation. Hence the call for delay.
Although I have not yet seen any actual legislative text, my reading about the Kerry-Lieberman bill tells me it's so bad that it might even be worse than doing nothing (if that's possible). Despite that risk, I support bringing this issue to the floor of the Senate because of the urgency. But I don't trust Lieberman at all, and the so-called "environmental" groups in Washington need to find some vertebrae (I know … fat chance) and fight for amendments.
It is especially important to remove the restrictions on the EPA. So I agree with Ben (#7). Randy Cunningham offered an interesting rebuttal today to the contention that the EPA is largely irrelevant:
"The fact is that the enemies of climate legislation want to do in the EPA as a regulator of GHG emissions, because they know that if they do defeat climate legislation, without taking out the EPA, their victory is incomplete. The EPA will be sitting out there with a loaded gun."
Thanks for referencing your thoughts on CLEAR (and thanks to Dan and Mark for your references to some of Dave Roberts's thoughts). It seems that the key arguments against the approach in CLEAR are as follows:
1) It doesn't address issues of regional equity in its distributions.
2) It relies on the Congressional budgeting process for funding of clean energy and GHG mitigation initiatives, but without a guarentee that funds will actually be used for this purpose.
3) It is not politically viable (linked back to 1). Moreover it runs against current momentum (M-W and Obama).
4) It tries to solve a "Wall Street Trading" problem already solved in W-M and presumably also addressed in KGL (though the phrase "perception is reality" may be applicable here).
5) The GHG emissions reductions targets are not stringent enough (though given David Roberts's recent analysis/thoughts in NYT http://roomfordebate.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/09/does-the-climate-bill-have-a-chance/?partner=rss&emc=rss linked to in these comments, and given the information Joe you put up recently on the low cost barrier of switching from coal to natural gas in the electric utility sector in some regions of the U.S., it almost seems that most any price on carbon will drive more substantial emissions reductions than is commonly anticipated in most analyses. Or – perhaps this is the issue here with CLEAR – because it is not an economy-wide cap and trade, CLEAR potentially misses many of the low-cost/negative-cost emissions reduction opportunities Dave and you have discussed?)
Does this sound like a reasonable summary of the key critiques against the CLEAR approach?
[JR: Not bad.]
I feel this is *the* legislative/policy issue of our time; and I want to do everything I can to be properly informed.
By the way (totally off topic) – I once read a somewhat angry comment on one of Dave Roberts's posts essentially making the point that we need to take the next step with our analyses and start organizing politically at the local level, start educating/activating voters and putting pressure on our politicians. While I wasn't a big fan of the anger element in that comment, I think the point being made was a good one. It seems like those who follow CP and comment on it understand the issues well. I would encourage all of us to start working in our local arenas to organize politically and try to start a movement. Especially in light of the oil disaster occuring right now. Whether or not Obama makes the case for a clean energy/low carbon economy in light of this disaster, we can go make that exact case in our local communities (and tailor it to the local cultural norms). My 2 cents, at any rate. [And apologies for the totally divergent topics in this comment!]


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