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Clive and Al Gore are hooking up later today? Jeez if ever there was a meeting of extremists! Why can't we just have a meeting of powerful sensible people who know the science and want to reign in carbon emissions in a gradual and sensible way? For example carbon pricing which does not hurt an economy - as we have shown.
Palmer has taken a half-way position between a government that wants to form an Axis Of Evil to agitate against climate action, and an opposition that takes the Climate Crisis seriously.
Whilst we should welcome his decision to support the CEFC, the CCA and the RET, we must not forget that PUP and the Coal-ition government has still turned Australia into a nation of Leaners, not Lifters, on global climate action.
Three cheers for Al Gore and Clive Palmer!!!
New Zealand already has an emissions trading scheme, right? That means that the ETS, now with the support of Clive and the Labor Party, is good to go!
The bloody double standards of Al Gore, whose made a fortune doing public speaking on Climate change, YET lives in a Mansion from all reports and every night has just about every single light bulb burning inside for hours on end. lit up like a XMAS Tree....All I'm going to add is if Palmer and Gore go out for a feed, then Gore had better make sure he's first one at the Buffet table ahead of Palmer.
Clive may have gotten into parliament for the wrong reasons but now that he is there he seems to not only be enjoying the power and playing with Abbott's simple mind he is also accepting some responsibility to act in the national and global interest.
So, is the ETS amendment a condition of the carbon tax repeal bill which legally obliges an ETS set at zero to be set up and - become effective - when our "trading partners" take action - whenever that is?
That have been the ALP position ever since they lost the election - abolition of the CT and replace it with an ETS. Not the useless Direct Action. The CT has a sunset clause anyway. To be replaced by an ETS in 2015 - no big deal if it is shorten by a few months
...and how is this different from exactly what the ALP has been spruiking for the last 12 months. Exciting, earth shattering? Hardly.
Well what did we make of that? Another start in the right direction rather than going backwards. Cons will have a late night tonight I expect.
Devil will be in the detail but looking good for the CEFC and an ETS ( what's new ).
See what tomm brings!
He is ditching the carbon tax is expected, what's the issue?
Well, speaking as an ALP flavoured greenie, I can live with that. CEFC being kept and an ETS in the pipeline is a reasonable compromise.
It was Clive saying, no carbon tax but, PUP supports clean energy.
Tony couldn't have bought that kind of publicity, except in the Immigration area where he pays something like fifty public relation spin doctors to make it seem like he spun the boats around.
Tony says the Carbon Tax is worth $30bn!!
That is effectively $6,000 for the average family!
I look forward to his repealing the tax so my power bill can go down by $6,000.
Wait a minute...... My power bill has never been $6,000. How can that be?
I don't understand a zero price ETS. Apart from that all seems too good to be true hence my 'devil in the detail' comment.
Good stuff. AND so glad he can see how farcical DA is.
Even the Clive wants to vote down the Carbon Tax, the only realistic way he has to get an ETS up is NOT to vote down the carbon tax and wait 12 months for it to kick into an ETS.
I don't think he'll do that though.
That's the great danger. Clive & co will vote with the gov't to abolish the carbon tax with an amendment that an ETS will be established. Unless the establishment of an ETS is made an absolute condition for the abolition of the carbon tax and that one cannot happen without the other, the gov't will abolish the tax and sit on its hands with the establishment of the ETS. Yet another Lieberal mess for Labor to fix.
That's the great danger. Clive & co will vote with the gov't to abolish the carbon tax with an amendment that an ETS will be established. Unless the establishment of an ETS is made an absolute condition for the abolition of the carbon tax and that one cannot happen without the other, the gov't will abolish the tax and sit on its hands with the establishment of the ETS. Yet another Lieberal mess for Labor to fix.
That's the great danger. Clive & co will vote with the gov't to abolish the carbon tax with an amendment that an ETS will be established. Unless the establishment of an ETS is made an absolute condition for the abolition of the carbon tax and that one cannot happen without the other, the gov't will abolish the tax and sit on its hands with the establishment of the ETS. Yet another Lieberal mess for Labor to fix.
What a lovely bit of nonsense that whole stunt from Clive Palmer was!
But it is great to see PUP adopting Greens policy.
He appears more green than the Greens!
Yet another political masterstroke by Clive.
Even the "Brick with Eyes" impressed with his introduction.
I wonder, however, what ol' Al really thought of the theatre - very odd bedfellows.
Good on yer Clive baby!.......Clive Robin Hood Palmer.....up yours Abbott!
And they were all left milling around as Clive went off to dinner.
Regardless of which side of the fence you're on, you've got to admit it's been a long time since we've had anyone this entertaining in Australian politics!
Well a clown is always entertaining.
Whatever you think of Clive, he's different, rich, and full of surprises.
Who'd think, for instance, he'd share a podium with Al Gore?
The next two years will be very interesting, with both of the established parties out-manoeuvred by his idosincracies.
@tory. No. Abbott is frightening,and not the least bit entertaining.
Oh well Helen can help Hubby undermine Naptime now she has a bit more spare time on her hands.
And good riddance to the faceless man, Farrell.
Retiring senators vs a previous VP of the USA - hmmm - no real contest. Of course can't see the Blue Eye Boys lining up - Al's politics won't tick their boxes.
Catching up on the House today.
Speaker lays dinosaur eggs!
Labor need a revolving door installed on House of Representatives.
Revolving doors are energy efficient as they prevent drafts (via acting as an airlock), thus preventing increases in the heating or cooling required for the building and a lot of people to pass in and out.
Debate takes on speed dating format.
A dad in budgie smugglers embarrassing daughters and a lot on university students.
Commonwealth cleaners have more rubbish to clean up and less pay.
Clive hatches dinosaur egg!
A dad in budgie smugglers gets my vote as the most embarrassing visual. Never mind that the dad happens to be one of our leading (?) Australian politicians.
Happy to read the positive comments from Gerry Harvey supporting Tony Abbott in wanting to get people to work past the age of 70.
Unfortunately Gerry would be to old for every company I've worked for in the past,
How many over 70's are working at Harvey Norman ?
Just the one.
Says it all, doesn't it?
Yeah just the one. Everybody knows the reality of work, getting it and keeping it, for older Australians.
Thats the problem Lyn you want and expect everyone else to sort your problems out for you. But instead of being comfortably unemployed with little reason to get out there and do something you are now thinking u will have to.Great - its working! Were you moaning at the lack of jobs when Labor was in charge? Thought not.
There were a lot more jobs then - far better policies.
You are a very angry man/woman @hodster,
Nice rant unfortunately there were more jobs under Labor, as there always is.
not angry at all.. just dont like the whinging and whining of all those people who think they are owed a living and cant be bothered to get off their backsides and try and improve their lot. Simple.
@hodster - angry I'd say. Claiming people are inherently lazy and won't get off their butts....
I say: Prove it!
If what you say is fact, then you can prove it (rather than just 'claim it').
Hodster, no I don't .
Apologies my irony was beyond you and will try not to use it here. I am one of the lucky ones and don't have any financial problems and only first world other ones. Touch wood. Yet I don't assume that it's all due to my natural talents or that unemployment is always a lifestyle choice, the unemployed are bludgers or taking advantage.
Your omniscience super power is failing as all assumptions about me incorrect.
Rather than deflect to your fantasies about my views and behaviours which are irrelevant, got anything to say about the point I raised – how 1.2m under/un/employed go into 140k jobs?
Further how do all those unemployed create jobs for themselves? Particularly if they have no Govt support whatsoever for up to 6 months of the year, as proposed by Govt?
Most people are not self employed so all the get up and go or expensive qualifications in the world, won't get everyone a job.
Hodster, no I don't .
Apologies my irony was beyond you and will try not to use it here. I am one of the lucky ones and don't have any financial problems and only first world other ones. Touch wood. Yet I don't assume that it's all due to my natural talents or that unemployment is always a lifestyle choice, the unemployed are bludgers or taking advantage.
Your omniscience super power is failing as all assumptions about me incorrect.
Rather than deflect to your fantasies about my views and behaviours which are irrelevant, got anything to say about the point I raised – how 1.2m under/un/employed go into 140k jobs?
Further how do all those unemployed create jobs for themselves? Particularly if they have no Govt support whatsoever for up to 6 months of the year, as proposed by Govt?
Most people are not self employed so all the get up and go or expensive qualifications in the world, won't get everyone a job.
Hodster your views as well as being out of step with the majority's, are simple but the problem is not.
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H.L Mencken
Al Gore whose mansion/residence uses US$100,000 of energy each year, no wonder he's flown in on his private fuel guzzling jet to talk with Australia's coal baron. Is that why Hanson-Young was gushing over Clive this morning, must have got the early heads up and a reserved front seat.
You have a copy of his power bill? Or did you get Tony and Joe to try to read it? That worked well last time, didn't it!
Guess we'll find out soon @eie.....nervous?
One day, Enough is Enough, you will actually address the issue instead of attacking the person. IF Gore is a hypocrite, it doesn't mean that what he says about climate change is incorrect.
Sideshow to the main event:
Blame leaks for the poll result in 2013
Bring back the leaker
Blame the leaker for the loss in 2014
Forget every ineptitude
and vilify all who are not of the union faith.
MRRT failed because it was ill thought out and dropped on the public without Keating's clever approach to slow consultation.
Gore just made another fortune; private planes have a big carbon footprint - more than ms milne's travel but only just
Clive and Al !
Has Clive finally accepted that climate change is an important economic issue ?
steve there was no bucket of cash for them the last time. The so called bucket of money $20 Billion was only a drop in the bucket after Howard squandered over $300 billion dollars of mining taxes revenue.
With nothing to show for all that spending except electoral bribes.
Yes, people tend to forget that Howard kick-started and openly nurtured the middle-class welfare system. But the LNP squad ensure they forget this valble information.
The Howard mining boom was a piddler compared with the boom we have seen over the last few years - record volumes of ore, record prices and record terms of trade.
And what do we have for ALP government through the largest mining boom the country has seen -
$300 Billon debt and $200 Billion of deficits.
What did the ALP do with all the money???
@Andie - are you working? Did you retain your job throughout the GFC? Well, I can't possibly imagine what you'd have to whinge about... Seriously!
They saved the economy.
Would you prefer they didn't?
Perhaps Al Gore has heard how great the food at the Wild Duck is - he and Clive are doing a quick presser before heading off for some spring rolls and szechuan chicken.
Maybe Al can see in Clive what he knows is not present in our illustrious PM, a man of common sense a an inkling of decency. "Stop the repeal" Go Clive!!!!
Hopefully they will be discussing Abbott's transition from lame to dead duck.
They will like that.
Presser duck. Yummy
@Get Real - I would hope that it is because of Abbott's visit to ''Canadia'' and the US - where people thought, ''What the..." with Australia initially leading the climate action charge and then doing a 180 degree spin and opting to trail behind the rest of the world.
If Leonardo DiCaprio can speak out about the Great Barrier Reef - why can't Clive talk to Al about what changes we are heading toward?
Sure Clive has a more polished turn of phrase than the PM appears to.
Hacks, do you ever get out of character?
I feel like you are a Stephen Colbert representing the political right satirically with an obvious political leftist agenda!
C'mon. Hacks tells us what you're really thinking.
A bit shocked?
SSShhhhhhhh @SimpleLan - the right think that ST Colbert is on their side......
Meanwhile, the Greens are choking on their gluten free tofu burgers.
@ Jump. It's Leo that finally persuaded Clive. He was on board the Titanic! All very real to Clive.
@Lyn - Then Wild Duck
3.48pm Mumbles the nations most embarrassing dad? As well as the most embarrassing PM? We need another accolade to give the poor feller a trifecta.
most embarrassing coal lobby sycophant in a southern US state?
i'd say the uncool dad kid vote came from the Big Brother my daughters are hot cringe
Australia's Greatest Liar?
How about how many lies he told (pre-election) that haven't been followed through post-election (commonly known as 'broken promises')?
That would make it a tidy trifecta - don't you think?
Most embarrassing Rhodes Scholar!
Most embarrassing squaddies.
Clive and Al Gore are hooking up later today? Jeez if ever there was a meeting of extremists! Why can't we just have a meeting of powerful sensible people who know the science and want to reign in carbon emissions in a gradual and sensible way? For example carbon pricing which does not hurt an economy - as we have shown.
Oh you mean powerful, sensible people such as in the LNP, Dick Warbuton and IPA fellow travellers?
Loud guffaw.
oh yes thats right Australia should be leading the way on that because they are world leaders and everyone else will follow. Carbon tax was really great and so successful that everyone else is getting one ASAP... oh hold on.......
Exactly hodster the only ones going away from Carbon pricing are Australia and Canadia!
@Lyn. Exactly. Extremism is all the go with this government. There own kind like Morrison and Brandis, and their friends like Bolt and Jones.
Hodster, holding on has been known to
constrict blood flow and thus affect the perception of reality.
Australia is the world champion emitter of CO2, so it seems very reasonable to me, as well as admirable. ambitious and economically sound, that we have the aspiration of being world class in the clean up and emissions reduction. A market based mechanism is acknowledged as the most efficient and effective way to do so.
Market based mechanisms are being implemented all over the world to address CT, either at National or sub-national levels. I read 90 schemes in existence so far. Repealing will go against the trend.
hey get real...sorry to say this but can you get real please and stop telling rather large porkies!
No more extreme than the current Government.
Too late for that. All the planet of the ape global warming denyist have handed over our planets future to the PUP's. DH's!!!!!
I would like to know why the PUP is getting more media attention than the Greens who have more MPs in the Federal Parliament. Once again the hate media is ignoring the great work the Australian Greens are trying to do.
because if you have a choice to go to Punch and Judy or a Latin lecture, you go to Punch and Judy. Mightn't learn much but you'll have fun
Its just depressing!
hahaha funny comment of the day " all the good work the GREENS are trying to do"... brilliant.. thanks for that
Pluto you get my comment of the day award.*
(so as not to raise expectations, this comment IS the award. Not worth the paper it isn't written on, I know.)
see, Punch and Judy appeals to them
Clive and Al, crikey!!!!!!!! Would've thought it. Anthony John will be in a spin.
If it's true it's delicious.
And if it's true, on top of being declared the nation's most embarrassing dad! Beautiful.
What the?
Gotta give it to the big fella, he keeps you guessing/
Pluto, Ditto, he must be prophetical after all. " The Dorky Dad" is now nationally acknowledged.
"3:57pm: In breaking Palmer news, former US vice-president Al Gore will join Clive Palmer in his press conference today at 5.30pm."
This may pressage a different result than anticipated from the PUP/Palmer deliberations on supporting CT repeal.
The temperatures rising - not just from climate change!
Lyn, yes intriguing. maybe that was the grin SHY had on her face this morning.
Quite a development.
@A country gal. Some countries get a leader they can call the "father of the nation" but we get, as you say, "The Dorky Dad."
Tony will be in a spin, he has been ever since September when he thought he won the HOR and the Senate.
Clive and Al, well, that just cements Tony in the ground that he thought was his sacred to him.
Dave a hard one for the Govt to beat. they will be pulling what's left of their hair out. Trust none of them had a Presser planned for 5.30.
No wonder Clive needed a bigger space!
Pluto, what to fit both their ego's in?
I do feel a bit hopeful, though. Not sure what to expect - except a big upstage of the pathetic Govt at the very least.
Looking at the likes and dislikes button accompanying pictures etc, it seems somebody has discovered how to clear their cache and keep hitting the button of their choice....or there's a concerted group effort happening. Sad, sad lives some have.
Not really! As confirmed by the opinion polls not many people like TA or his inept government.
I don't think anyone could be bothered cheating - the results here are pretty much the same as all the other polls, even NewsPoll - Abbott is detested. Can't spin it any better than that I'm afraid.
Never saw those buttons until you highlighted them just now. Wouldn't bother clicking them either. Just as much of a waste of time as Face Book is... Who cares?
They sit pretty much single digit either way and then there's a huge rush. Somebody's having a lend...not that it means anything at all really...just commenting on how people get a bit too serious.
Wouldn't get too excited. If you read -especially during QT it's often near impossible to know whether to like or dislike if you are that way inclined. You'll notice many are hardly ever used.
Finally we have a government that is going about its business and trying to get the job done properly. One that isnt so needy that it requires a press conference every other day just to get their faces and rather annoying voices on the T.V ( yes i do mean Julia and Kev). Yet despite this we get the shrill squawks from the left about just how bad they have it now and just how terrible it is that they cant sit around all day just collecting their benefits and watching their flat screen t.vs that were bought for them. The age of entitlement is over and its time that all of those who can, get up and start giving something back to the society that they are so happy to leech from. Stop whining and start winning for once.
Well I hope you got that off your chest.
gag me with a silver spoon
the age of prosperity and equity is over, but the Tory's are entrenching their entitlements
All the LNP voting woman of calibre are indeed complaining that the gold plated PPL welfare that would fund the new luxury motor might be in doubt. Quelle Horreur - Age of Entitlement for some is alive and well
Did you write this all on your own? It*s pretty original, especially the motivational sales spiel script about *winning not whining.*
Hang on - 4pm - I*m wining.
Everyone is an "entitled" bludger eh Hodster? It must be so wonderful to be one of Tony's perfect people and able to dump on anyone who doesn't agree with you.
The age of entitlement is over but not for those such as the PM who will no doubt enrich himself further by exploiting expenses account.
@hodster, so thoughtful and respectful as ever.
2 1/2 years of this rubbish to go.
Tick. Tick. Tick. Boom.
Please hodster could you be more specific about what the entitled whiny little people should do, to be more winning?
Us dimwits in ordinary land clearly do not have the same perspicacity as you, given your perspective from your big (LNP?) soap box.
We need precise directions, in particular - how 730k whiny unemployed and a further 500k whiny underemployed can work or get work when there are 140k job positions available.
Thanks for your help. We sure need it.
Thats the problem Lyn you want and expect everyone else to sort your problems out for you. But instead of being comfortably unemployed with little reason to get out there and do something you are now thinking u will have to.Great - its working! Were you moaning at the lack of jobs when Labor was in charge? Thought not.
Tony Truthfull - this is a consultative and collegial government - pull the other one. PPL anyone ? Tony probably consults with himself looking in the bathroom mirror, and probably wonders what the person talking to him is on about
Maybe the "consultation" is Peta and the Top End of Town telling Tony what the agenda is to be
Very very amused by Samantha Maiden's tweet @ 3:39pm. Clive has always played the media for suckers & quite successfully too.
Or was it referring to the Cabinet as his Band of Merry (almost Women less) Men.
3.31 not much chance for Greste, given the Govts views on human justice. Still paying refugees to go back to Iraq and now also can be sent back even with a 50/50 chance of torture.
Habib anyone?
Yes country gal. I just can't believe it really. There is something very bad going on in the immigration system and Morrison's handling of it. It's quite pathological.
Stop torturing torturing logic AGC, if the Egyptian government offered Greste 10K to risk returning to Australia, I'm pretty sure he would take the deal.
SteveH - that is NOT the same comparison - and you know it
Paying people to return to a possible death situation compared to returning home to a non-war situation, and loving parents?
SteveH - you must have been using obtuse humour - surely... ?
Who would ever forget, and we have Reith on another page giving his ideas on how not to go forward!!! In fact might be better if Abbott and Bishop stay out of it altogether.
Amro,that he was dual citizenship and the rendition at the behest of the Us and us, in Egypt sadly ironic.
Yes, best they stay out of it.
More gets achieved on the Pulse than in the House during QT.
Labor MPs will face more ejections until they learn to show respect for the Speaker. They have continuously been taking bogus points of order and have refused to keep quiet when the speaker has asked to do so. To his credit Tony Abbott showed a lot of class when he rescued ex Speaker Jenkins from a Labor plot to oust him so that they could install Peter Slipper-Labor won out in the end when they got Jenkins to fall on his sword.
Respect? For what? The worst, most biased and incompetent Speaker in our history!
Agree.......with the first 6 words.
Class? Tony Abbott? You're kidding. He was only concerned about forcing an election. Labor just lost Craig Thomson and was down a vote. They needed Jenkin's vote to retain numbers in the Lower house and did a swifty to promote Slipper to speaker. Abbott was only ever about trying to force another election.
As if the Liberals showed respect to Labor when they were in government. Oh come on.
I would hazard a guess that Dolores is more likely to get a William Wallace *Braveheart* style salute than some forelock tugging show of respect that few think she personally deserves.She seems to show no respect for the position of speaker.
Really?-You have just confirmed Labor's dumb attitude to the Speaker-may the ejection of the unruly Labor MPs continue-till they learn a lesson.
Stevek-Tony Abbott is all class compared to Gillard, Rudd, Shorten and Albanese So you think that Labor should have been allowed to manipulate the Parliamentary procedure-just to prop up their rotten, debt ridden Government.
Pluto-The Liberals never showed the open hostility to the Speaker that the Labor MPs are showing to this speaker-maybe they are misogynists. The Liberals never called for a vote against the speaker in fact they called for a vote to save Jenkins when Gillard wanted to oust him.
@noitall (what an ironic name): do you really believe that if the situation was reversed, that Tony Abbott would rather let his government fall rather than risk having to rely on the vote of a tainted MP (and don't try to kid us that such people don't exist in the LNP).
As he was reported to say to Tony Windsor, he would he would do anything except sell his arse to get the job. Having failed, he then did everything he could to destabilise the government.
Given that Scotty spoke about the opposition in his answer @ 3.07pm does this mean that he thinks the ALP are actually responsible for stopping the boats? If so it seems he is implying that clowns could do a better job than him. the first bit of Government honesty in a long time if thats the case.
... yes, seems that he has finally given credit where credit is due and not claimed it falsely for himself. The ALP 'you will not be settled in Australia' campaign did the trick long before Morrison arrived with his campaign of silence about boat arrivals.
Bishop steps up to inform us about the new passport which we pay over $200 dollars for, if you travel you'll notice loads of countries have these fancy chips now. I'd also like to know how can she cancel a passport of an Australian citizens? There's an Australian citizen in gaol right now accused of terrorism, he it's guilty we all know that but false accusations do happen. We are back on Howard's fear campaign that always work in Australia.
Can't see Wayne Swan holding a budget paper. After messing up four budget surpluses he ain't touching one of those budget papers ever again. They are just bad luck aren't they Wayne?
I think I understand the deflection, to "look at Wayne". Its too painful and embarrassing to look at LNP.
The ball is in LNP court and they are dropping it.
Any comments about that?
swan doesn't want to soil himself with the bs in the bludget
2:51 - great photo.
What about a caption - "Labor members all vote to support government budget".
It's too rough and tough to be toilet paper.
How about "this Budget is thin on top"?
They did vote the Appropriation Bill through Hacka. They other legislation is another matter
With cost of firewood these days the budget paper may be good enough to keep the fire going for a cold winter night.
I didn't see Labor pass a GP bulk bill kill bill.
Must have only been you.
What about "pick me, Mr Abbott, pick me".
Mais51 - open fireplaces are now taboo here in Canberra - the Greens don't approve of them.
what about "red card Sir Phoney, you're off"
Okay Hack, what is Al Gore doing with Clive?
I Guess it is an ETS?
Good question SimpleLan, although Al's struggling for friends these days.
steve there was no bucket of cash for them the last time. The so called bucket of money $20 Billion was only a drop in the bucket after Howard squandered over $300 billion dollars of mining taxes revenue.
With nothing to show for all that spending except electoral bribes.
yeah, Al Gore, what a loser - Oscar-and-Nobel winning Harvard graduate and Apple board member - yeah, he'd struggle for friends I reckkon hakkkeie
I would like to think that, however Al is totally on the left of Dick 'Hell Burton' Oil Me UP!
Although, it is Tony that is struggling for friends these days. Not Al or Clive.
@Hacka - Room sealed slow combustion wood burner heaters are very popular in Europe. May be you should consider them for your Canberra residence. Hate to see those packs of superseded budget papers go to land fill.
irritable Bill syndrome....very good.....will we see that in the age tomorrow?
Why would they do that when they could run NotByBoatt!
Is Burke playing hide and seek? more childish behaviour, and I thought the Greens were immature.
No. He has suddenly realised that he could have had a decent profession but instead gave up his one and only life to politics.
Compared to the government's spoilt brat behaviour, the rest are all OAP's
if you make your views known on this and who you support, to the Greens, I feel confident they will give your comments the weight they deserve.
Suggest you save your faux concern for a Party of faux policy and promises, such as the LNP.
Any photos of a remorseful Wayne Swan?
Yes. Looking at this years budget and thinking how one side can wreck the economy he saved in one fell swoop.
Yes Wayne would have us back in Surplus again, like he promised the last 3 budgets....
I suppose having no debt at the time and a $20 billion surplus presented a huge challenge to the genius Swan
Don't worry though, if another global bust happens things will be so much easier thanks to Sir Shorten of Debtville.
That is what I call bright and intelligent voters getting their news and knowledge straight from Tony Abbotts mouth! And what could be more honest and accurate than that? Forget about the official OECD list that has Australia 3rd best country for economic growth and debt per GDP, Abbott's spin and lies are the way to go.
Stevie I presume if the sh*t hits the fan again the ALP will be returned to government to deal with the problem as they have throughout the history of our country.
tasch2 - Not quite so quickly - you haven't given the LNP enough time to clean up the mess the ALP left behind and put the money back in the bank before history repeats itself with the ALP yet again blowing it.
Smack. Is that the mess where everyone was able to keep their job when everyone else in the world was shedding them like the Government is breaking promises? Wow what a disaster. I cursed every month that my pay cheque arrived.
You know as well as I that the Coalition will never have the wherewithal or fortitude to ever deal with a situation like the GFC or the Great Depression. This is why whenever these things come along they are unceremoniously booted in favour of people who actually have an idea.
Tash, well there will be no bucket cash waiting for you next time my friend.
Little Billy is going to make sure of that.
Stevie I would have thought the amount pork barreling this bunch of clowns will need to do will put paid to any buckets of cash.
Not much cash around when the ALP soothed the effects of the Depression.
tasch2 - Ho ho ho - where to start eh? What hysteria to think Swanny saved my job and everyone else's - hilarious!! Where did the tuckshop overseer get the funds in the first place - ask Uncle Petey perhaps or give China a call?
Secondly, what - we all knew the GFC was coming so we voted the LNP out beforehand(who'd been in for a decade) to bring in the ALP to save us? - hilarious again!! You should take up revisionist history-telling for a living - you're a natural.
Schmuck, i repeat
"Euromoney said Mr Swan had been given the award "for his careful stewardship of Australia's finances and economic performance, both during and since the global financial crisis''.
But the magazine made clear it didn't think Mr Swan had single-handedly saved the nation's finances.
"Swan has undoubtedly been blessed with a number of advantages, including inheriting a sound economy and the natural resources bounty that has allowed Australian trade with China in particular to boom.
But he was credited with the correct strategy during the global financial crisis of 2007-08.
The magazine applauded his "swift response to stimulate the economy'' despite "strong opposition at home'' and said he had "succeeded in getting most of the important decisions right'.
"These include putting in place an exit strategy for the stimulus and sticking to it, imposing a fiscal discipline that many other finance ministers refusing to adopt,'' said the magazine's citation of Mr Swan.
"Swan continued to deliver this strong and steady performance despite political difficulties at home, in which his Labor Party only has the smallest possible majority through the support of independent MPs.
It said he joined a "roll-call of leading finance ministers, including Jim Flaherty of Canada and Alexei Kudrin of Russia."
Smack. Are you Santa Claus with all those Ho's? Swanny did save your job then. Its very simple. If all the Mummys and Daddys have money they can spend money on presents for their kids. They won't have any money if they don't have a job. If they are not spending money then all the other mummys and daddys who earn their money by selling other mummys and daddys goods and services will have no money either. This means they cannot employ people and more jobs are lost. This leads to recession.
If private people aren't willing to spend money then the Government needs to. What this does is create demand which mummys and daddys, like the ones who build school halls, can fulfil and thereby earn some money for themselves. This in turns enables them to spend that money with those mummys and daddys who sell goods and services to earn money so they to can spend money. All very simple really.
A country is not a household, the Government should step in when required to ensure the standard of living is maintained. Its about thinking for now as well as future generations. I would much rather my kids live in a first world country and perhaps have to see some of their tax dollars being spent to repay debts where they have every opportunity to prosper at the same time rather than from an economic basket case like Greece where you and your penny pinching friends would have us if you had your way.
As for the rest take a look through history. It happens to often for it to be mere coincidence.
rod - Remind me again - this Euro-crowd mob were the same blokes who were patting Lehman Brothers on the head too around the same time? Weren't they? Gee - they knew what they were about - weren't they?
Did they say anything about the tuckshop overseer's inability to deliver a promised(over 536 times) surplus - any words there at all? "Stuck to a stimulus exit strategy" - ho ho ho - Swanny couldn't even keep under his own self-imposed 2.5% spending increase threshold - the closest he got was 3.7% and this was "restraint" - funneee...
Tasch2 - You're right - you should be Santa Claus instead because you keep giving me all these revisionist history gifts for me to merrily bat away. Swanny saved my job? A little secret - I'm self-employed and Swanny was never in a bulls-roar of saving my "job". Perchance, you don't happen to have a little statuette of Swanny or something in your house that you burn candles around or pound a drum in front of - just a thought?
Tasch2 - "Mummys & Daddys" - Think you need to run along now and get some "dins-dins" perhaps? Give the statue a pat for me too...
I am now convinced Bronwyn's intention is for us to throw up our hands and declare ourselves outclassed and defeated. She's won, she thinks, and we will make no more comment about her lack of independence as Speaker and her abysmal record in that role to date. Sorry not so.
Go Bronnie - is it that serial offender the Member for Wakefield once more, or is Swannie back in the House ?
Not sure whether you follow the AFL there @theH, I reckon they'd be better off going back to the days when the captains decided the free kicks, or maybe even the captain of the home team? And a send off rule to (err) boot! I'm sure we finally have common ground on this one?
Well davemac - yes we can share some common ground over the AFL - but i can't recall the days of captains acting as umpires.
Frankly every time we hear about Bronnie supposedly being biased, it sounds like one team complaining about the umpire.
We all remember Anna Burke, who's match statistics were little different to Bronnie's - a high number of disposals and contested possessions.
Please tell me you're not an Essendon supporter.
No davemac - not a premiership for my mob in 34 years, but we're very patient. Probably be another 34 years at this rate.
'Hacka' - yesterday you had the chance to comment on this video in relation to cuts to the ABC. Have you responded somewhere yet?
If not let's try this:
1. Watch video.www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAHNXdHai0g
2. Does the man say there will be no cuts to the ABC and SBS?
3. Is the man Tony Abbott?
4. Is he the same Tony Abbott who is now cutting funds to the ABC?
Simple yes or no answers needed.
There is no debt crisis and budget emergency in Australia. Australia will continue to have a AAA credit rating. Abbott again is telling porkiy lies.
Daniel - Australia has just been through the rise of China, the mining boom and the best terms of trade ever. There could be no more ideal conditions for delivering a balanced budget.
Labor not only couldn't even balance it - they put us $300 million in debt ! How can we have nothing but debt to show for boom times ?
Daniel - you need to get on board and start using the Tony Abbott's new dictionary and phrase book, it is a beauty! Amongst the words with new meaning are: crisis, open, honest, upfront, misogyny, no new taxes, conservationist, centre right, alliance, Canada, gold star, political duties, sharing the burden and one of personaly favourites mandate. -
How about a relevant response to the issue of a Credit Rating ? MIA in the same way as any utterances from Hacka.
MST - do you mean the last vestige of fiscal credibility that you guys hang on to ? The AAA was lost under Keating and regained by Costello.
The IMF and World bank have warned if we don't rein in spending, the ratings could be subject to review - that's how close to the wind the Labor Concordia was sailing.
@MST - credit rating from the same agencies that rated Subprime Mortgage bonds as AAA? Yes - they are creditable...
Hacka - the majority of our debt is because Labor wisely stimulated the economy to prevent recession and 4-5 times larger debt like the countries that went the austerity route during the GFC. Some of the debt is because Labor spent on infrastructure which Howard didn't, and Howard got to sell of assets and our gold reserves.
QED - the combined GFC stimulus packages were $52 billion.
The debt left was $300 billion.
How do you explain the gap ?
references I found say the stimulus was $80b, of which at least half of it, the LNP supported.
Hacka - Little Johnny & Co left future Budgets with a major underlying structual deficit. Had they had been relected and continued with the pork barrell approach to bribing the electorate, but not responded to the GFC then they too would have had a deficit - and who knows the size of it. If the economy went into recession then their tax receipts would have dried up. Food for thought indeed. The opportunities of the mining boom were well squandered before 2007
Lyn - Turnbull supported SP1 which was $10bn. Then came SP2 - $42bn, not supported by Coalition.
Even if your $80bn is correct, why did Labor spend $220bn on top of that ?
Now the Global Financial Crisis was a 'Boom time'? And the ideal conditions under which to provide a balanced budget Hacka? Be careful not to choke on your own spin there! Spending was restrained during the Gillard/Rudd years, lower than under Howard's. Revenue was down demonstrating that it was absolutely not an ideal time to produce a balanced budget.
Hacka - what has the current Govt spent all the money on that it has borrowed since September. I remember $8B gift to the RBA that it did not need or ask for ? The debt has blown out further since. If the Govt was serious about managing the bottom line it would be looking at the revenue side of the equation - FBT, Family Trusts, Super tax breaks, Negative Gearing come to mind. And tax minimisation, and a reduction in Company tax at a time when we can least afford it.
Hacka - it wasn't about spending, it was about the reduction in government revenue during a Global Financial Crisis. We avoided recession, but we did have reduced spend hence paid less tax.
As you agreed a couple of days ago, Labor spent very close to the same as Howard. Labor also failed to roll back any of Howard's middle class bribes and structural welfare to corporates and the already rich like negative gearing or trust funds. They were also defeated it putting in a real MRRT.
I only answer to rebut the misinformation inherent in what I think is another disingenous query by you Hacka (because I am confident you know what I write below was the case) and so newbies or the ill informed get the other side of your cherry picked narrative.
Labor didn't spend all of it on new spending or measures they introduced, the debt partly arose from a revenue shortfall (falling tax revenues) and the requirement to continue the essential recurrent spending such as locked in welfare, health, education, defence, administration and bureaucratic spend that was in place before Labor came into power and which could not except around the edges be trimmed and not all at once without shocking the economy.
Labor over the last 1.5 years of its last term did start to implement savings and reforms that would turn things around on the revenue and spending side. PEFO confirms this.
Labor could have/should have done a lot of things differently or better and some of them not at all, but it is a wonderful advantage to stand on the high ground of hindsight and throw disparaging half truth boondies at Labor.
QED, revenue never reduced at all. It actually increased, just not as much as Wayne wishfully hoped for. Also, Rudd & Wayne promised in 2007/2008 to limit spending growth to 2%. Remember Rudd's "This reckless spending must stop"? They never got there & spending grew at a faster rate than even during Howard's time and long after the GFC emergency was over.
Lyn, QED - so you've both fallen for the sledgehammer hit line of Swan's, which was hysterical given the actual numbers contradicted the Swan comment. Did you also for the line that "we've returned to surplus", or "the four surpluses i announce tonight" ?
It was all about the spending, which skyrocketed 36% in the first four Labor years, despite Rudd promising to be a fiscal conservative.
Revenue did fall marginally in 2008-09 and 2009-10 due to the GFC but bounced back after that.
When will the sisterhood come to the defence of this Dorothy Dixer? surely Tanya et al can seek some more changes to the English language dictionaries.
EIE "When will the sisterhood come to the defence of this Dorothy Dixer?"
Interesting EIE, that you think only the "sisterhood" is remiss for not reacting.
That is sexist. Was that the intention?
Nevertheless an example of the "subtle" sexism that Sue Boyce called out.
Following on from sexist comments from @eie yesterday. Please continue your ramblings by all means but there's a line here.
@Lyn. Sue Boyce said "subtle sexism" and then said that she didn't say what she said. The journalist got it wrong. I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt but ended up thinking, typical Liberal saying one thing and claiming another. Then blaming someone else.
Pluto, agreed the transcript of the interview shows she said exactly that about the male, pale and stale on her side.
So she called it out, as I wrote, even though she now wished to recreate history.
So yes, very LNP. Say one thing, deny you said it and then explain the listener ie (the journo in this case) heard incorrectly. Echoes of Gonski. Must be in the DNA.
Reminds me more of Brave New World
Just interested from both sides about what we can do to fix the shambles that parliament has become - and I blame both sides for this. What about:
1. The speaker is independent - eg retired judge
2. You cannot ask a QT question to a member of your own party. Wouldn't it be better to have govt members also asking opposition shadows questions on a regular basis?
1. Peter Slipper was an independent speaker until the LNP decided that his head should roll for jumping ship (before he was pushed)
2. MPs can ask questions of their on party. It's known as a Dorothy Dixer. I can't see any point in asking questions of members of the Opposition. QT is used to probe government policies.
Doubt there'll be any bipartisan attempt for the much needed change Dave. The Govt are quite happy with the current ill serving arrangement.
Certainly needs reform.
3. The question has to be answered
4. The answer must be relevant to the question - not to be taken as an opportunity to sprout about any old subject
MST I agree with that.
But there is already a requirement for the answer to be relevant.
The issue is the lack of enforcement of this by the very biased Speaker who allows her side to stray from the highway into the rutted lanes and byways of irrelevance and to stand on soapboxes when no props are allowed.
Thus return to the fundamental need for reform to require an independent, unelected Speaker.
For starters Bishop would have to be the worse speaker I've ever seen in my life
I would prefer a fully armed retired army general as speaker & no question time at all.
so Louis, you plump for a man and no debate -
excellent idea for a legislature
PM Abbott was at his best in the torrid interview Alan Jones and Graham Richardson gave him last night. Abbott is a class act and answered questions with intelligence and honesty. If only the likes of Shorten and Milne had the same qualities.
I heard that interview. I thought the Prime Minister sounded ignorant and incompetent and that was with the benefit of the prepared script Jonesy gave him.
On Radio - possibly read from a prepared answers from a list of well researched questions.
Even by your low standards, EiE, that's just ludicrous.
alternative to co-payment in user pays medicare... let me think...hmm first option on your kidneys should the worst happen? or if you really only need one? rack up a debt like HECS, payable as death duties? we could call it Debt Eliminating and True Health Scheme (DEATHS)....
Why this faux anger at a GP copayment of $7 when most Australians pay copayments on their GP visits, pathology tests, scans such as X-rays, MRIs, hospital stays, specialist doctor services and many other medical services. These copayments run into hundreds or thousands of dollars. And the national budget s held to ransom over $7 - it beggars belief.
Totally agree, Tony Abbott should honour his election promise to not touch Medicare and drop the unfair $7 co-payment. Holding the country to ransom over an election lie is a disgrace.
This is a measure that was included in the 2014 Budget by the LNP. $2 goes to the GP. $5 Dollars goes to Medical Resaearch. $0 dollars go to fixing the LNP's bullshit budget crisis. Do the maths work for you?
If $7 is so apparently immaterial then the Govt should drop it. Those that cannot afford to pay anything towards a visit to the doctor can currently go to a bulk billing clinic - that will disappear under this proposal
enuff you do live in an insulated entitled environment - there are many Australians not as advantaged as you, who do not pay for hospital visits etc as currently it is paid for themm by the States and Commonwealth. Please absorb the fact many people live hand to mouth and a $7 co-payment is significant in the week's budget, especially as other benefits have been slashed for the aged, disabled and unemployed. Safety nets are for these people, and constitute the base of a fair and responsible society
Why don't you read the proposal. Anyone that goes to the doctor "each week" would be exempt from the co-payment!
The proposal includes a "safety net" for such people.
How would you propose to fund the kind of medical research fund the government are proposing?
Exactly EIE,
Currently the petrol companies alter their pricing by as much as 20c a litre within a week, and not a peep out of the Greens or Bleeding Hearts, but as soon as the Government wants to increase the price by 1c - it's outrageous!
Same goes with the co-payment! The people complaining the loudest about the co-payment are those that can afford it, but won't accept it as a good policy because it came from Tony Abbott.
Nothing goes to Medicare nothing so how is it helping to keep healthcare sustainable .
82% of GP visits are bulk billed (from ABC factchecker). So most Australians are not paying copayments. Also the safety net is only for children under 16 and pensioners NOT for the chronically ill. Please stop spreading lies
@rodst - you've just listed part of H's job description
@Hacka - the issue isn't about raising the levy which Howard should have done when he was doing all the vote buying middle class welfare. The issue is about where the money raised is going. I thought we had a budget crisis and if so then why isn't it going to fix that? It is just like the new medicare tax (sorry co-payment) which isn't being used to pay off the deficit. It isn't even being used to improve health. It is a play straight out from that Hollowmen series where they have announced something that sounds great, has no detail and ion reality is no more than a distraction and at worst a slush fund for the government to pork barrel certain interest groups. What is worse is that it is the young families and elderly people who are going to pay for it without getting anything back for it.
Milne is an international embarrassment to all Green Parties around the world. What a failure to the Green cause.
Hacka, dismayed? No. Initially a bit perplexed but if there is no environmental outcome then I don't see the point. This Govt is doing is darnedest to be anything but considerate of the environment. Never any consideration to the automotive industry to change to production of electric/hydrogen models. not even an attempt. I can assure you I don't agree with every Greens policy (I doubt if many voters honestly can with their preferred parties either). As a rural person it will only add more costs (with no benefit)as we don't have the option of PT. So yes, I agree.
A friend who has just 'found' the Greens wrote a lengthy letter over the FEI to Milne and out lined his reasoning - made perfect sense to me, given the axing of the Carbon Price et al and the punitive Budget.
Given different circumstance I'd be all for it.
Come on Clive, listen to the STOP THE ROADS party, ditch the Roller and shut down your coal mines.
As if.
ah, hackeie, the consummate deployer of the reductive, dismantling the complex strategy to a punctuation mark - this is what you do, irritatingly,
There are two varieties of your rhetorical strategy, which relies upon the form, tone, and language of the question itself to try to drive the debate in the desired direction.
The leading question asks a question that has an obvious or implied answer. In this fallacy, the speaker frames his/her question in such a way that he/she can perhaps control what the answer will be, pushing it in the direction he wants. Generally the audience has been primed with emotional rhetoric to push them to a knee-jerk response without considering all the consequences, leading to a mob mentality.
The loaded question asks a fundamentally "Yes or No" question for which neither answer is acceptable. The question is framed in such a way that an impulsive response may make the opponent look bad regardless of how he/she answers. The very question itself implies that the opponent is guilty of some improper behavior or ideas.
that's why Lyn and I wonder if your unremitting questions are questions - they are, like Sir Phoney of One Term's lies, disingenuous and sneaky
Clive please listen to the US Ambassador, it is not too late to change your mind and vote to support the price on carbon as its stand
Mais51, don't you remember Clive thinks that the whole CC hysteria is a CIA plot to destroy the Australian coal industry?
I reckon Clive will change his mind a few times between now and his "announcement". How did we ever get to this......
@Mais51 - how about politicians listen to the people who have spoken at the election to repeal the carbon tax. We are not Americans and do not take our orders from American diplomats.
@Lewis - That was Clive the Liberal speaking, not Clive the PUP speaking. Now that he has a few months in House under his belt and ..pillow. I am sure he wakes up to the fact that CT is not bad at all, he may even get more business from the US and China - the last thing he wants is a penalty on the products he sells to the world from a non - compliance country, as we surely will be classified as one.
Mais51, you're dreamin.
"It's one the United States will raise in every international forum. It is one we will continue to press ... It is of critical importance ... not only to Americans but to the world."
And we are about to repeal the Carbon Price - what's a joke
Its embarrassing, irresponsible and will hasten the worst outcomes everyone who cares about the future, future generations and all the biodiversity on earth is trying to avoid.
@Mais51 - no one is stopping you writing a cheque to the tax office pledging your funds to go towards carbon tax. you can do that with and without the carbon tax legislation. If the carbon tax is repealed and you select not to continue paying it then you are a hypocrite.
@Pawel - you answer reveals that you know very little about carbon tax. That a price to be paid by the people who generates the carbon - the polluters, not the average Australian - I am adequately compensated for the CT impost - why should I care. Beside if Abbott successes in repealing the CT I am ways ahead because you see I get to keep the Commonwealth compensation without ever having to pay the tax anymore - that is the dump thing about Abbott plan - and he is telling everyone about budget emergency. We don't have a budget emergency just yet - we certainly will have one as soon as Abbott cuts off his Carbon Tax or his revenue stream - very clever I'll say.
@Mais51 - and here lies the problem - you are happy with the Carbon Tax provided you get the compensation! You lefties are happy to take taxpayer money but never happy to contribute. I am hoping Abbott changes his mind and repeals both the CT and the associated compensation.
"Entry to the Great Hall must be made via the goods lift ... " wonder who instructs such an in-dignify entry to the Great Hall to hear Clive talks
ACG - you're a Greens supporter - they've often argued that increased fuel prices on their own are a means to an end. Now you seem to be putting conditions on it.
Surely you must be dismayed by yesterday's back flip ?
Rod, Lyn - if you're struggling to differentiate between a question and a comment, here's a tip - a good clue is the presence of a question mark.
Julie Bishop not at the National Press Club? Because Julie Bishop must be getting exhausted. She appears to be the only one on her side doing any real work. Certainly the other Bishop isn't. And the boys? Just throwing their weight around in the house as usual.
Yeah, who would have thought JB to be the Libs shining light? Guess the bar isn't that high.
I'd written her off as a lightweight after the "Tony is the captain of our team, on the fields, off the field etc" episode of last year.
@davemac. You're right the bar isn't that high. But you gotta hand it to her, she tries, and keeps on looking the part, doing her job in less than salubrious environments, both overseas and here in Canberra.
John Hewson argued in favour of not imposing a GP bulk bill kill bill, however the IPA and BCA have different ideas.
Your Emperor didn't even have his Treasurer write the budget, he out-sourced the budget to the private sector thinking that it was a great idea.
Nothing wrong with fuel excise as long as the returns are spent to combat CC and invest in PT.
This current model addresses neither, hence the objection.
re your framing comments as questions.
You seem to be confusing this blog with a Dept for Enquiries or a University lecture (ie Socratic method). I am surprised you are still operating under the old more socialistic paradigm where those who know would assist you if they could for free. I would have thought you were on board with the LNP's new paradigm, user pays and age of entitlement to free answers at an end - so no free answers and more self- reliance required.
Additionally, disingenous leading questions do not deserve a sincere answer.
How many of the audience understand the difference between Parental Leave paid for by the employer as part of Enterprise Agreement or Salary Package, and the Blue Sky dream of a Taxpayer program "cash splash with borrowed money" to fund well paid women to stay at home for 6 months ? Seems LNP staffers / cheer squad are having difficulty here. Or is it just another deflection away from the poor record in getting legislation through the Senate ?
Despite this PPL supposedly funded by an extra tax on big business I do agree that government has no business involving itself in what is a workplace entitlement. This just inefficiently further expands the size of government for no productivity gain.
Having said that I would note that the generous PPL enjoyed by the public service is also paid for by the taxpayer as is the welfare entitlement treatment by the previous government of this issue. It should be left to the employer & the employee to work it out.
@Really? I would think most do understand but despite that, some are determined to spin it that there is no difference.
I ponder the reasons why they attempt to convince readers on here with that kind of approach. Perhaps it's because they know if they stated the truth their arguments would not stand up, so misrepresentation gives an otherwise logically and factually unsupportable position legs. Perhaps it also relies on a sense of superiority that no one will notice their "clever" subterfuge and accept any distortion by them as truth.
Weird isn't it that they think they will convince many on here, using that kind of attempted deception.
It was the ALP that gave public servants 6 months PPL at the full rate of pay and superannuation no matter what they earned and many earn $150,000 +.
Why do the ALP value PS babies over other babies?
If the government can afford to pay this largesse to PS women why not other women?
Or should the ALP now be arguing to reduce the generosity of the PPL they gave the public servants?
Who is the "employer" of the Public Servants that get 6 months full pay and super, no matter how much they earn? Who were the parties to that EBA?
Are they the same parties objecting to the rest of Australians receiving a similar benefit?
Feel free to answer this question before your knock-off at 4:51pm today....
Andie - perhaps all employers should be required to fund PPL - in the same way that they fund Annual Leave, Sick Leave, Long Service Leave, Superannuation. We don't expect the "Govt" to fund those types of Leave - why should a full blown PPL be any different ?
Browns - go back to my posting -you quite clearly fall into the group that does not understand the difference between a "welfare" payment and a condition of empoyment fully funded by the employer. And no - I am not a Public Servant so I am not protecting any employment rights I have.
Many of these well paid women in private enterprise are already receiving the PPL as well as lower paid women it is part of their workplace agreement, I posted a list of companies offering PPL a couple of weeks ago it is surprising how many companies offer one, all lies to say only the public service receives one. Just a couple for you to digest; Acumen Alliance, BHP, American Express, Brisbane City council, City of Onkaparinga, Ford Australia, General Motors Holden, IBM, Lend Lease, Optus, Queensland Rail, most universities across Australia. that's from a list of over 200.
"Brisbane City council, City of Onkaparinga, Queensland Rail, most universities across Australia."
Yes Amro, the above are all tax payer funded schemes.
The rest of the companies you referred to are large organisations. Pity that the majority of Australians that work for SME's can't get the same benefits.
Remember, the PPL will be part-funded by a levy/tax on the largest companies, not SME's.
Really, we the tax payers are the employers of the public servants why should we the taxpayers give them somehting the ALP wants to deny other women?
is that a question?
Any chance that the LNP is looking at the structual budget deficit measures intoroduced by Little Johnny, or his present of middle income tax breaks, also the issue of revenue raising - perhaps Negative Gearing, FBT, Super concessions, Family Trusts, welfare for Miners and tax dodges by mutlnationals . . .
12:19 - based on recent form, is it likely that in Andrew Leigh's book he argued in favour of increasing the fuel excise ?
Any chance that the LNP is looking at the structual budget deficit measures intoroduced by Little Johnny, or his present of middle income tax breaks, also the issue of revenue raising - perhaps Negative Gearing, FBT, Super concessions, Family Trusts, welfare for Miners and tax dodges by mutlnationals . . .
is that a question?
re your framing comments as questions.
You seem to be confusing this blog with a Dept for Enquiries or a University lecture (ie Socratic method). I am surprised you are still operating under the old more socialistic paradigm where those who know would assist you if they could for free. I would have thought you were on board with the LNP's new paradigm, user pays and age of entitlement to free answers at an end - so no free answers and more self- reliance required.
Additionally, disingenous leading questions do not deserve a sincere answer.
Nothing wrong with fuel excise as long as the returns are spent to combat CC and invest in PT.
This current model addresses neither, hence the objection.
John Hewson argued in favour of not imposing a GP bulk bill kill bill, however the IPA and BCA have different ideas.
Your Emperor didn't even have his Treasurer write the budget, he out-sourced the budget to the private sector thinking that it was a great idea.
ACG - you're a Greens supporter - they've often argued that increased fuel prices on their own are a means to an end. Now you seem to be putting conditions on it.
Surely you must be dismayed by yesterday's back flip ?
Rod, Lyn - if you're struggling to differentiate between a question and a comment, here's a tip - a good clue is the presence of a question mark.
ah, hackeie, the consummate deployer of the reductive, dismantling the complex strategy to a punctuation mark - this is what you do, irritatingly,
There are two varieties of your rhetorical strategy, which relies upon the form, tone, and language of the question itself to try to drive the debate in the desired direction.
The leading question asks a question that has an obvious or implied answer. In this fallacy, the speaker frames his/her question in such a way that he/she can perhaps control what the answer will be, pushing it in the direction he wants. Generally the audience has been primed with emotional rhetoric to push them to a knee-jerk response without considering all the consequences, leading to a mob mentality.
The loaded question asks a fundamentally "Yes or No" question for which neither answer is acceptable. The question is framed in such a way that an impulsive response may make the opponent look bad regardless of how he/she answers. The very question itself implies that the opponent is guilty of some improper behavior or ideas.
that's why Lyn and I wonder if your unremitting questions are questions - they are, like Sir Phoney of One Term's lies, disingenuous and sneaky
Hacka, dismayed? No. Initially a bit perplexed but if there is no environmental outcome then I don't see the point. This Govt is doing is darnedest to be anything but considerate of the environment. Never any consideration to the automotive industry to change to production of electric/hydrogen models. not even an attempt. I can assure you I don't agree with every Greens policy (I doubt if many voters honestly can with their preferred parties either). As a rural person it will only add more costs (with no benefit)as we don't have the option of PT. So yes, I agree.
A friend who has just 'found' the Greens wrote a lengthy letter over the FEI to Milne and out lined his reasoning - made perfect sense to me, given the axing of the Carbon Price et al and the punitive Budget.
Given different circumstance I'd be all for it.
Milne is an international embarrassment to all Green Parties around the world. What a failure to the Green cause.
@Hacka - the issue isn't about raising the levy which Howard should have done when he was doing all the vote buying middle class welfare. The issue is about where the money raised is going. I thought we had a budget crisis and if so then why isn't it going to fix that? It is just like the new medicare tax (sorry co-payment) which isn't being used to pay off the deficit. It isn't even being used to improve health. It is a play straight out from that Hollowmen series where they have announced something that sounds great, has no detail and ion reality is no more than a distraction and at worst a slush fund for the government to pork barrel certain interest groups. What is worse is that it is the young families and elderly people who are going to pay for it without getting anything back for it.
@rodst - you've just listed part of H's job description
if you make your views known on this and who you support, to the Greens, I feel confident they will give your comments the weight they deserve.
Suggest you save your faux concern for a Party of faux policy and promises, such as the LNP.
No other way to sum up the Libs but 'in total disarray'. Fresh from losses on Tas forests, permanent visas and chaplains, throw into the mix an electorate ready to chuck out the most unpopular PM in quite some time. Need I go on?
OK I will: senators threatening to cross the floor, outgoing senators bagging other Libs, Arthur S in hot water, George B putting his foot firmly in his mouth every time he opens it, cigar chomping ministers dancing in their office before they give it to lower income earners, ministers who don't seem to know the detail of the toxic budget they are peddling, Vic libs about to get chucked out after one shambolic term, right wing media bully boys thinking the situation's so bad they need to put down any possible challenge to their great leader.
And lies, and endless spin. And making us a joke on the world stage by taking us back to the 50s by a leader (sic) with zero vision who can't string two words together without umms and errs and mindless repetition, with messages that depend on who's in the audience at the time.
But wait, there's more.......
Let me see, TA who is trying to sort out the mess, or a unionist who will probably spend you hard earned money on escort services or something new for his house....I know who the crooks are...your blind hatred is staggering
Well said.
Yeah, you're probably right @GT, they probably will do that, just blows my argument out of the water. Tip of the hat...
I must thank you however for assuming I do earn money the hard way, normally the assumption would be that I'm currently in the dole queue posting from the iPhone that you paid for with your taxes.
Judith, how about some truth for a change from The Age - masthead - At Abbott Always. The $25billion hole is Labor/Greens hole. Milne has no policy credibility her grip on the leadership is slipping. Shorten's authority is eroding every week. I would urge readers to read Standard & Poor's recent announcement that if Australia does not fix its budget position then the AAA rating is in danger. That would push up avg annual mortgage repayments by $6000 and this is from after tax dollars. Labor will be blamed.
An Eaglemont reader supporting the LNP - how surprising. How about you broaden your dialogue to look at the structual tax deficit Little Johnny left, as well as the issues in revenue raising that could be addressed via changes to FBT, Negative Gearing, Salary Sacrificing, and all the hands outs to middle income earners that Little Johhny also introduced.
Peter, this was the report in The Australian soon after that line was trotted out:
"TONY Abbott's charge that Labor is threatening Australia's AAA credit rating has been discredited, after a leading ratings agency rejected claims it was poised to review the nation's credit score.
The Prime Minister this morning seized on a media report of comments by a Standard & Poors sovereign analyst, Craig Michaels, that the nation's prized credit rating could be reviewed if parliament fails to approve significant budget cuts.
Mr Abbott used the Australian Financial Review report – titled "AAA credit rating at risk" – to repeatedly attack Labor today, urging the opposition to pass his government's first budget through the Senate.
However Mr Michaels has told The Australian "there is no immediate risk to the AAA credit rating"."
"As we said last week, we have a stable outlook on the rating, which means a less than one-in-three chance that we'll change the rating over the next couple of years." Craig Michaels, Standard and Poor's
You are correct that LNP will blame Labor, but history shows the public always blames the Govt of the day for such things.
There is one apt response that covers all of this rant: nope
"Nationals MP Michael McCormack is speaking on the public governance bills.
......He adds: "Labor are no friends of the public service".
With friends like the current LNP government in Canberra who needs enemy.
So the Appropriation Bills have passed the Senate. Just goes to show that some legislation will be waved through. If Tony Thruthfull learns a few negotiation skills some other legislation might not languish for ever. Perhaps Ms Peta needs to enrol her Boys in How to Win Friends and Influence People 101
Just on Clive's Titanic II. I reckon there would be time now for someone to begin construction of a ship built in the shape of an iceberg to follow the Titanic II around where ever it goes.
Lewis, I think you will find the Greens are thinking not only of the environment, but also the average Australian. The money raised was not going to be used to provide public transport which would have assisted in the removal of pollution, but also congestion. If the money had been allotted to public transport, eg fast trains, and the upkeep of perhaps roads in the rural areas, I think you would have seen a better acceptance of the raise. In this case it is a hit at the ordinary Mum, Dad, Family, Pensioner etc. you know Howards battlers.
Ausgaia, my point is that the Greens are also a political party and, as such, are also concerned about their position in Australian politics. Everything you said in their post means their original position is open to compromise. Remember, the Greens haven't blocked this bill yet. If they pass it with ammendments then it is a political win for them. It would mean their ten senators can be more important than Clive's 3 + 1.
Nice juxtaposition between Alex Ellinghausen's pic and your reporting the good news that there's money for governing. But will it be allocated wisely?
Each day Labor becomes more electable due to LNP lies, spin, untruths and its continuing to treat the public as mugs.
Shorten's new moniker should be "Electabill".
Really....? Sure...thats the best you have....
GT yeah the best I could today, but wasn't fooling myself that I was Shakespeare II.
So you don't like puns.
And I thought I was getting into the prevailing "weak quip" spirit ie Pluto at 11.11am: "Judith I think that "enshortened" is very clever and agree that the budget is totally "crepe". "
Meanwhile over on the ironyless right bank, the response of "that's weak and therefore so are you" is considered wittier? Hmmm.
Yes @Lyn...lift your game!!
Here's a pointer:
ElectaBill - not funny at all
Electricity Bill - Hilarious!!!
I stand chastened, Davemac.
Next time, I will ensure to use Bill's name in a quip or pun only in denigration.*
That way it will be funny (to LNP supporters)**.
* (ironic).
** (as if I care)
iis that rainbow pointing to a pot of gold in the Arbetorium?!!
Arboretum - a collection of planted trees. Not a native forest.
Now back onto your rainbow.
under "inscrutable" see "incomprehensible"
btw enuff is enuff already, the Arbetorium is located behind Black Mountain, where the rainbow disappears .. doh, facts in the way again ..
11.50 well the only pot of gold with this mob has the Big End's name stamped on it.
Yep, Milne falling over for big oil multinationals yesterday was unbelievable.
boy, enufff, you're cracking along today aren't you - who pays the excise? multinationals or consumers? yeeeeessss, consumers, who have no choice but to pay for the fuel... consumption will not decrease, but prices will rise
Do you drive eie? What kind of petrol price increase would have you change your behaviour?
Pen, I don't have to read the Green's policy documents to know that what Milne is proposing is illogical - just ask the other half of her team that voted against what she is doing. It is illogical to oppose an increase in a tax on a fossil fuel while supporting the carbon tax, which is a tax on public transport (eg. electric trains). Using the excuse that the extra dollars are spent on roads doesn't pass the laugh test. The proposed roads will reduce travel times and hence lower pollution. She also ignores the fact that half of public transport use roads (ie buses). The Green's policies are internally inconsistent! I read many of your posts and you are smart enough to know that Milne has clearly lost the plot leading to diminishing support for the Greens.
Milne has a personal vendetta against Tony Abbott. She will not support anything he proposes, even if it is "Greens" policy!
10.12 Madigan
As much as I have opposing views to Madigan on reproductive choices and CC , he has my absolute respect. he has the electorate at heart and a concrete view of what is right and wrong. A firm believer in social justice. He and Xenophon will be a formidable duo in the new Senate.
Two to watch, they both work hard and are a return on the investment of those who voted for them.
Har, hear. When I read his election policies prior to the last election, I dismissed him as another conservative stooge. But he has shown some integrity in not just swallowing the LNP spin
Stevek, precisely why I commented on him. He really does have some moral conviction on some really pertinent issues. That he sponsored Monkton is all a bit extreme and a bit much but on the same token he's prepared to put his money where his mouth is. Donated his wage increase to assist Youth training/apprenticeships. Is passionate about Australian manufacturing, country of origin food labelling etc.
He takes his position seriously and is a tireless worker, and as yet has not inflicted any of his anti choice beliefs upon us. He fights for the underdog.
I've changed my tune on him, and don't hesitate in saying so. What you see is what you get. Certainly don't feel as confident in the new blood arriving.
WORKCHOICES is like vermin in the roof Judith. Sometimes you just don't hear it overhead. But then all of a sudden its there and you think: "I must get the pest exterminators in."
Know any decent Pied Pipers?
Pluto,Love this line and so true.
I'm not convinced that it's opposition to new roads or just a hatred for Abbott that is behind this apparent back-flip from the Greens on the resumption of fuel excise indexation. It could be a bold attempt by the Greens to remain relevant in the new senate & not be overlooked in the horse trading. Their opposition just seems too open for compromise to me.
Judith, I think you will find the Greens are thinking not only of the environment, but also the average Australian. The money raised was not going to be used to provide public transport which would have assisted in the removal of pollution, but also congestion. If the money had been allotted to public transport, eg fast trains, and the upkeep of perhaps roads in the rural areas, I think you would have seen a better acceptance of the raise. In this case it is a hit at the ordinary Mum, Dad, Family, Pensioner etc. you know Howards battlers.
seeing as it's you doing the self-convincing, your scepticism seems justified.
Umm, the Liberals want to slash and burn everything.
The Greens know this, and won't make the same mistake the Democrats did by "keeping the Bastards Honest" by joining with the Liberals.
...and yet they did just that recently in abolishing the debt ceiling with the government.
Judith I think that "enshortened" is very clever and agree that the budget is totally "crepe".
Re: Clive Palmer is set to reveal his position on the carbon tax.
Clive's self-interest: coal production expansion, and massive expansion of atmospheric carbon dioxide. His Galilee coal mine remains producing from 4 billion tonnes of coal and 11.44 billion tonnes of atmospheric carbon dioxide. He will not have to millions in carbon tax from his coal and nickel pollution.
And this man controls the Senate?
Then he's no different than all the other windbags in parliament.
The difference, Pluto, is that most (if not all) other members don't currently owe millions of dollars in Carbon tax.
Maybe he will surprise us all and not support the repeal of the carbon price and the mining tax. Maybe he really is in the Parliament because he genuinely believes he can make Australia a better place. Maybe he's the one billionaire in Australia whose sole objective in life isn't the next billion. I doubt it; but maybe...
Bye bye carbon tax...
Jofek, your glass is half full. I hope you're right, but somehow I expect otherwise. A big boo ha for Clean Coal I'm expecting.
Then again, who could guess.......
Just depends how much he really does despise this mob.
jofek - Perhaps a third theory is that he is a billionaire and genuinely believes he is making a worthwhile difference in the Parliament by voting to ditch the carbon tax and MRRT hmmm?
Smack, no.
Warning: Tony Abbott will see that photo of pensioners out for coffee and he will deduct another $3.50 from their pension.
Or he could deduct surplus letters from your name Shar(r)on!
when you were born, your parents thought that you were so insignificant they called you nulla (something of no importance, a zero)!
Nulla, glass houses etc.
Sharon, seems you have a fan re your name. Irony is, his idol has a couple of excess letters too.
haha nulla, not very nice but funny all the same.
So if Shorten dislikes the PPL so much, is he going to propose to remove the maternity leave provisions provided for public servants ?
If most Australians shouldn't be eligible for the PPL, then surely public servants shouldn't either.
All I can do is repeat that every single person sitting in this ridiculous excuse for a parliament should ask themselves what is the real reason for all of the obstruction against a miserly little tax worth less than 0.4% of 1% of GDP. At $6.3 billion the carbon tax has had more lies and B.S. spoken about in this parliament than the hidden expenditure of $86 billion on flying lemons. One would think that at least one of the so called politicians would find out why and say so. As for Coalition MP's they should all hang their heads in self- disgust for allowing their own children and grandchildren to suffer the consequences of global warming. How they can face a mirror is beyond my understanding. To say they are pathetic is a compliment.
As for the PPL, Hacka how many jobs does it create compared to the C.T.?
No surprises here Hacka, misrepresenting the truth again. Labor has a PPL policy but we'll never get to hear it in parliament as Pyne will gag the debate.
All Australians are currently eligible for the fair to all and affordable to the country PPL brought in by the last Government. Nothing will change that. Private firms and the Public Service are free to employ their own more ramped up versions in order to keep their valued female employees.
Hacka it's been said over and over in these columns by lots of different people invoking Abraham Lincoln in various ways. You just can't fool all the people all the time.
Strange comment Tim. Labor does have a policy, but are they saying that there should be one rule for public servants and another rule for everyone else ?
Or should Labor go back to the CPSU and tell them that public servants need to have their conditions changed to bring them in line with the rest of the country ?
Hacka - you well know that Employers look at the Total Cost of Empolyment when offering a Salary Package. Negotiations have taken place to arrive at an outcome that is suitable to all parties. Feeble Tony's package is not going to be fully funded by employers - but for some reason he thinks it is OK to have a "cash splash on borrowed money" for well paid women to stay home with their child.
Hacka - your deflective spin on Public Servants conditions of employment are way wide of the mark - and you know it. Why not pick on all Private Sector employees who have also negotiated something similar in the past ? Or why not shine your bright beacon on all the Execs who are allowed to Salary Sacrifice ?
Hacks, it sounds like you are suggesting that the Abbott PPL scheme is going to be inserted in every industry award and eba, as Tony puts it "a workplace condition not welfare payment' this will give room for mandatory negotiations. This would happen under both LNP or Labor however when it's welfare that doesn't happen.
The PPL for public servants is part of their
wage , like the perks that are included
private packages...ie;
car and fantastic plastic,private heath insurance,private school fees and of
course PPL.
You are a complete cynic Hacka, being paid, for your bleak, contempt of people.
Hacka, just who do you hope will be fooled or manipulated by your misrepresenting Labor's position on PPL and creating strawmen that there will be no PPL if Labor gets its way or Labor is proposing to abolish public sector entitlements or that they are hypocrites if they don't abolish them? I am past incredulous. It's just par for the course by you.
I suppose you have an excuse. You are just following the leader.
Lyn - given you're trying to justify the Greens stance on fuel excise indexation, you'll forgive me for having a chuckle at the use of the word incredulous.
It's a perfectly reasonable question - why are Labor discriminating in favour of the public service against all non-government mothers ?
None of you seem able to answer it.
You do realise the Public Service is paid for by tax payers don't you....
The ALP is not discriminating in favour of the Public Service Hacka - I thought you supposedly had the smarts to recognise the difference between an employer funded employment benefit and the Govt having to borrow money to fund "welfare". Maybe the cold weather is numbed your thought processes ?
Hacka - why aren't you and the IPA out pestering all private sector employers to step up to the mark and pay their valuable female employees PPL ??? Some private employers already do this. Surely women of calibre deserve this as much as the boys get all their perks ?
Oh Hacka,
I did not realise that because you ask a question, usually as in this case with a false premise or of a leading nature, commenters with opposing or different views to you, are bound to answer. Is that because you consider yourself entitled?
As mentioned in another response to you, entitlements to free answers are over.
Well if nothing else, at least we amuse each other.
Really - one rule for one, another rule for others.
That's the definition of discrimination isn't it ?
Browns the Public Service is a work title bestowed on many different types of employees of the Government ... it's not a pejorative term that dog whistles 'welfare bludgers' which seems to be what you are implying. Public Service job terms and entitlements are already an established part of working within those areas. That means their inhouse PPL's are an established workplace entitlement.
There is already a PPL scheme in place that does not discriminate between parents and is not welfare. The rolled gold ( 5billion a year) version the LNP seek to bring in directs the most to those parents who don't need it while actively denying it to many such as stay at home mums, students, the unemployed and so on.
It's not on old son and it's class warfare of the most pernicious type ...
Hacka "Lyn - given you're trying to justify the Greens stance on fuel excise indexation, you'll forgive me for having a chuckle at the use of the word incredulous."
There you go misunderstanding or misrepresenting the clear meaning of the written word.
I haven't tried to justify anything. I have stated I accept the Greens' rationale and that it makes sense to me and I have rebutted any false assertions (by you and others) about what that rationale is by repeating or clarifying what that rationale is.
Why are you asking for forgiveness? Besides being disingenous again.
If you don't understand the quite clear answers you've been given, Hacka, that says more about your intelligence than the quality of response. But then you're not paid to be honest, so you could be simply wilfully obtuse.
@Hacka - this isn't one of your usual deflections but an outright lie. Shorten is not against a PPL at all. He is against this inherently unfair version that was put in by Tony Truthless to try and buy women's votes. Much like most of the budget, this is another example of how Hockey decries the age of entitlement - unless you are wealthy. In an era of a "budget crisis" we just can't afford to allow wealthy women get paid to have babies. The current system is both fairer and more affordable.
Will a woman earning $50k a year be better off under the existing PPL or Tony Abbott's?
Is that really "class warfare"?
And by the way, the annual average PS wage is now well above the annual average private sector wage.... Go figure!
But we would never hear you whining on these forums about how the government spends taxpayers money - would we....
Browns no need to sneer or indulge in put downs as it makes it seem like you don't wish to debate but only insult.
To be honest I think all parents would be better off with out this over the top PPL and have the 5 billion a year put into affordable childcare for all. That really is the biggest hurdle facing parents returning to work.
While there are extremely punitive measures in play for under 30 job seekers and pensioners and the like then the LNPs version of a PPL is not viable. We already have one that covers everyone quite fairly and is affordable. We don't need this blatantly unfair version while so many vulnerable others are copping it in the neck.
"sneers and put downs"?
yes really. People expressing a different opinion to you are not ipso facto 'whining' merely bring a different perspective to the table. deal with it.
All this petty to-ing and fro-ing we go through here is about to be put firmly into perspective. Clive today makes his Big Announcement, giving an eager populace "a solution for Australia and the world".
A solution to what we're not told, but it's sure going to be exciting. After all, Clive says it offers "hope for mankind."
"Hope for Mankind". Wow. Makes "Stop the Boats", Axe the Tax" and "Debt and Deficit Disaster" look a bit mundane.
Is it that, a la Jurassic Park, he has cloned a dinosaur and is opening a new theme park with live dinos?
The climate is right for it.
Hey Maddo let's parley LNP style..
first, i threaten you with sleepless nights..
then, you refuse vote in favor of anything i suggest..
then we go to a double dissolution and i go back into oppposition..
There is a wilful determination on the part of the Govt and based on yesterday's comments on here many anti-Greens commentators possibly many of them too, not to understand the Greens' reasons for not supporting the FEI increase.
Much easier and satisfying for critics to try and discredit with name calling such as hypocrites, inconsistent, not standing up for their principles blah blah blah.
And why the vtiriole directed only at the Greens? They can't block this on their own.
Lyn - political parties need to stand for something. The Greens say they stand for the environment, but then they voted against it yesterday.
They're placing their hatred of Abbott above their stated and published "principles".
It could well be the end of Milne. Problem is, who's next ?
Actually, Hacka, the Greens voted against the fuel excise increase because the additional money was being used for more roads. If it were reinvested into public transport or renewable energies it may have been considered.
As it stands, it was simply a "hit to the pocket" for consumers with no added environmental bonus.
yay! rhetorical question sighting!
Rubbish Oliver - they voted against it to thwart Abbott.
Gee their supporters must be tearing their hair out - here was a no-brainer to increase petrol costs, and they rejected it.
Actually better roads doesn't automatically mean more cars just faster times with less fuel. It's a political decision, they are no different from the others.Milne probably wont be leader at the next election.
Lyn, it's become a National sport to knock and castigate The Greens.
I get where they are coming from and support them on this action.
Sen Milne will continue to lead well - 8.7% at election, now hovering around 11% - strong presence consistent policies, good negotiator, excelllent victory in the Tarkine wliderness - pretty much everything Sir Phoney of One Term is not
Wow Hacka - maybe the Greens were looking at the bigger picture - no obvious "green" benefit and a hit to the hip pocket to the electorate. Perhaps if the money had been directed to say the CSIRO or medical reserach, or rehab facilities for those injured in carr accidents the outcome might have been different. Tony has no idea -- an outdated attack dog with no apparent negotiation skills.
Asked and answered several times yesterday and again today. Time to concoct your next question to the masses.
davemac, Hacka's not here for a conversation. He seems to genuinely believe he can make a difference by following Abbott's stratagem of repeating nonsense until it's thumping around in our heads like a migraine.
The logic of the Greens is quite simple, quite explicable and quite logical. If Abbott wants to tie a new tax to new roads, he should not be expecting the Greens to fall into line.
Pretending the new tax is a climate change initiative is wildly inconsistent and hypocritical - charges Hacka is somehow levelling against the Greens.
Chris Whyne may as well 'manage' the debate, it's not like we'll get a decent one anyway. Better to just let the Fibs wave the bills through with their numbers and let the Senate have a proper look at them.
I've had my coffee Judith and am just waiting for the Speaker to issue the first 94a.
Talk about the budget just keeps getting less attached to any semblance of logic. Tony "the only party that will raise taxes after the election is the Labor Party" Abbott constantly parrots the four word slogan Debt and Deficit Disaster. (Essay topic… Should the 'and' be counted? Is this really a three word slogan? Discuss.) We're told that we have to tighten our belts (unless we're rich, own a mine or donate to the Liberal party, that is). Lie back, we're told, and think of the Budget.
And yet, yesterday Jamie Briggs proudly boasted that the Liberal's $50 billion roads program is the 'largest infrastructure spend in the history of the nation'.
Help me please, diminishing LNP Cheersquad. How can you say spending is good (so good that you boast that you've spent more than Labor ever did) while you're concurrently saying spending is bad.
And while you're attending to that, you might also explain how you can decry the spending of the previous Government on stimulus to avoid recession when the previous Liberal government squandered the once in a generation mining boom with unnecessary middle and upper class welfare, corporate welfare and cynical vote-buying tax cuts, leaving a piddling surplus of just $30 billion. That money would have been better spent on economically beneficial infrastructure, or a substantial surplus which would have made avoiding the recession much easier.
The response is quite simple. The Libs are spending money on long-term projects eg. roads whereas Labor wasted money on short-term recurrent spending eg. welfare and cash splashes to buy votes. As for the Howard years, they didn't waste the mining boom at all. They managed to repay all of Labor's debt they inherited (sound familiar?), put $70 Billion into the Future Fund and after returning the budget to a healthy surplus they repaid any extra proceeds back to the taxpayers that contributed the funds in the first place. In contrast, Labor delivered the six largest budget deficits in our history and wasted $20 Billion plus on poorly targeted and poorly managed stimulus spending post the GFC. There really is no comparison and no amount of attempted spin will change the fact that Labor was the most economically competent government since Federation.
First of all thanks, Airato, for giving a reasoned answer. The usual response is ignorance (on both senses) or abuse.
I'd take issue with a couple of your statements. Much of the stimulus spending had long-term economic and social benefits as well as providing immediate economic and employment stimulus. Even though politically derided, the BER was successful, addressing a chronic lack of spending on public school infrastructure over many decades. (It also gave some wealthy private schools indoor swimming pools and rifle ranges, but that's a separate argument.) The home insulation program also had a double benefit, environmental as well as fiscal. Of course there were problems with both, flowing from the speed with which they had to be rolled out, but labelling them as utter disasters is a political rather than a factual interpretation.
You sympathetically describe Howard's tax cuts and one-off payments as "repaying the taxpayers that contributed the funds in the first place", while Labor's are "short-term recurrent spending e.g. welfare and cash splashes to buy votes". Can you see a hint of partisanship here?
And I'm assuming you didn't really mean to describe Labor as "the most economically competent government since Federation." I certainly wouldn't agree with you! But they did a good job in difficult circumstances.
Whoops! Meant to say "incompetent" in relation to Labor. While I was typing I lost concentration when reflecting on what a great job Howard and Costello did to rescue us from the Keating years.
I wasn't criticising all of the stimulus spending, just an estimated half of the $40 plus Billion where was clear wastage. Sending $900 cheques to people to spend on buying iPads and flat screen TVs made overseas didn't help the Aussie economy (not much iron ore in those products!). The BER was rorted and achieved poor value for what was spent and was slow to kick in. The money should have been given to schools to attack the backlog of maintenance every school has and any left over used for their priority building projects. That would have created thousands of immediate jobs but Rudd would have missed having his name splashed on billboards outside each school.
I confess to being partisan but hopefully support this with reasonable arguments.
right first time Airation - There really is no comparison and no amount of attempted spin will change the fact that Labor was the most economically COMPETENT government since Federation.
"Euromoney said Mr Swan had been given the award "for his careful stewardship of Australia's finances and economic performance, both during and since the global financial crisis''.
But the magazine made clear it didn't think Mr Swan had single-handedly saved the nation's finances.
"Swan has undoubtedly been blessed with a number of advantages, including inheriting a sound economy and the natural resources bounty that has allowed Australian trade with China in particular to boom.
But he was credited with the correct strategy during the global financial crisis of 2007-08.
The magazine applauded his "swift response to stimulate the economy'' despite "strong opposition at home'' and said he had "succeeded in getting most of the important decisions right'.
"These include putting in place an exit strategy for the stimulus and sticking to it, imposing a fiscal discipline that many other finance ministers refusing to adopt,'' said the magazine's citation of Mr Swan.
"Swan continued to deliver this strong and steady performance despite political difficulties at home, in which his Labor Party only has the smallest possible majority through the support of independent MPs.
It said he joined a "roll-call of leading finance ministers, including Jim Flaherty of Canada and Alexei Kudrin of Russia."
I don't think you can overstate the magnitude of the debt and deficit crisis.
The gross irresponsibility and incompetence of the Labor Party has left this dreadful legacy for the Government.
Our credit rating has plummeted to AAA.
That's right, AAA.
I don't think credit ratings come much lower than that.
The situation had become so dire that the LNP had to sacrifice its integrity, by telling lies, during the election campaign, to seize power & save the country from this looming fiscal disaster.
And that's why, every question time, they keep reminding us, over and over again, what a disaster a AAA credit rating is.
Howler Monkey "I don't think you can overstate the magnitude of the debt and deficit crisis."
You can only not think, in the way that you must have, by ignoring the evidence of the day in day out overstating of it by the Govt, its media allies and those in voter land who have swallowed that propaganda hook, line and sinker.
Rod, Euromoney also thought Lehmann Bros were the best bank in the world when they nearly brought down the entire world eonomy.
Yep great judges those Euromoney whizs.
The Greens under Bob Brown used to stand for something but after Christine Milne decided yesterday that they will oppose the increase in the fuel excise (a tax on pollution!) she has demonstrated they have nothing to offer and after July 1 will become irrelevant and go the way of the Democrats.
I suggest that you digest the Greens policy documents before going off half cocked. Ignorance is such bliss isn't it?
Don't worry, Pen - Pollie Watcher is obsessed with the Greens, and thinks if he/she says "boo" often enough they'll go away.
I must confess to being an obsessive supporter of the Greens when the party was led by Bob Brown but no longer under Milne with Greens Lite. Time for Pen to bite the bullet too and follow my lead.
"Pyne wants to gag debate on the Public Governance, Performance and Accountability (Consequential and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2014."
No wonder. They are failing at all three.The Government probably needs to look up what the words mean before they can debate such a Bill.
9.28 am Is *outragedeth* a heavy metal group? Does anyone nee coffee?
David 9.28 am Is *outragedeth* a heavy metal group?
Yeh verily. Doth thy not know? Most popularith group in the olden days.
Add to the gag that Abbott is to spend the additional revenue from the petrol increase on roads, why?
Over the next 5 years one million migrants will arrive on our shores, they will eventually purchase cars and when they are not in gridlock they will drive home on new roads bordering evermore unfordable housing, why?
With the highest population growth in the world we cannot build enough houses, the economy of supply and demand dictates more unaffordable housing. It is why in 1968 1.5 years' average salary could purchase a house, today it takes 6.6 years average salary to buy a house.
This increased million population also demands 11 billion KWh of additional power per year, which means at 2000 KWh per tonne of coal an extra 5.5 million tonnes of coal is burnt to produce 15.73 million more tonnes of atmospheric Co2. This is why the Greens do not support the petrol increase be spent on roads the Greens written policy on immigration is clear:
"The current level of population, population growth and the way we consume are outstripping environmental capacity. Australia must contribute to achieving a globally sustainable population and encourage and support other nations to do the same. Australia's population policy should be determined by its commitment to: ecological sustainability."
So, anti-Greens please explain what Australia's sustainable population is? Go on be my guest, dumb struck are we? Clue: how much over sustainability does an extra million migrants create in five years' time under Labor and Coalition absurd migration policies?
It fallacy that migration can only aid the economy, too much population growth imposes pressures on infrastructure and adds to congestion; in so doing it depresses productivity. International comparisons show that there is no association between population growth and growth in per capita GDP.
Pen you seem incapable of explaining the Greens open border, mass migration, flood of refugees and the Greens population and sustainability policies. Do you really think you can have unlimited population growth with uncontrolled welfare and other social program spending plus protect the environment. How does this parallel universe work? We are looking forward to a concise, one paragraph response. No need for another thesis.
Read the policy! The first priority is a sustainable population. Now you tell me what this is! Oh, surprise, surprise you cannot, can you?
You say that "over the next 5 years one million migrants will arrive on our shores, they will eventually purchase cars and when they are not in gridlock they will drive home on new roads bordering evermore unfordable housing, why?" Aren't you also driving on those roads? Your anti-migrant position is plain to see. You can always obscure it with a plea to economics or urban planning but in the end it hides, and not very well, an anti-immigrant position. The increase in vitriol is very worrying for a country in part created and built by migrants.
Australian's need to understand that we earn our way in the world mainly by selling fixed mineral resources (e.g. iron ore, coal, natural gas, and gold). And evermore migration means fewer resources per capita. It also means that we must deplete our mineral resources faster just to maintain a constant standard of living. By any measure our standard of living is falling away, meanwhile our migration policy is the highest in the world with a population increase of around 25% since year 2000. This scenario totally ignores the consequences of minerals depletion or falling demand.
By 2019 we will accommodate an additional million migrants, which means further depletion of mineral resources in addition to lowering our standard of living further, why? It is fallacy that migration can only aid the economy, too much population growth imposes pressures on infrastructure and adds to congestion; in so doing it depresses productivity. International comparisons show that there is no association between population growth and growth in per capita GDP. This is not surprising as comparative data on 32 OECD countries show no positive association between population growth and growth in labour productivity. Mining minerals also does very little for jobs growth.
Absolutely Pen, spoken from my own heart.
Pluto, it's not being anti migration- it's the rate of migration. It is unsustainable and a ponzi scheme to confuse growth figures. A false economic model, not to mention the environmental aspect.
We seem to be heading towards a bit of a budget impasse, with the dislike of Abbott and being preferenced ahead of what's good for the national interest.
But where will it end ? If bills are continually blocked and the deficit becomes larger, voters might remind themselves of the many reasons they voted in the Abbott government in the first place. Which may put a heap of pressure on the incoming Senators to get the supply bills through.
Let's hope the irrational anger of the left-green alliance makes way for some pragmatism post 1 July, but i wouldn't be counting any chickens just yet.
Hacka, you'd be hard pressed to find one single policy measure of this appalling Government that is inarguably in the national interest.
How long will Milne and Shorten ast in their respective roles? This is looking like crunch week for them as their parties continue to over ride them.
Shorten will only last as opposition leader until the next election.....
how many facile deflective rhetorical questions will eie and hakky pose today? How many times will they fail to defend the incapable and indefensible? what can the Sir Tory of One Term stooges half-do today? we wait with anticipatory enjoyment
and how long will lame duck Abbott last? can't even pass a budget, about as popular as leprosy and it's not even a year yet ...
eie - the Pieman's okay but you're right about Milne.
There's obviously a power struggle going on within them, how else could you explain yesterday. Surely their supporters are scratching their heads.
And yet another nonsense from enough is enough, who obviously has no intention of trying to understand why the Greens oppose the fuel levy, other than his/her own speculation and ignorance.
It is all to with what is sustainable opposed to feeding the greed of the top end of town. Taxpayers spend billions every year on roads for foreign owned mines. Meanwhile our mineral resources are depleted by the highest population increase by migration in the world. When you can answer what Australia's sustainable population is get back to me.
Good to see democracy alive and well in those two parties.
The LNP should try it. Phoney's PPL captain's pick, wouldn't stand a chance.
Have you seen Abbott's approval rating? It is worse than Gillards.
To David D...yes Shorten will only last as long as opposition leader to next election, and then be will be PM ...bring on the DD..nice thought, but poor old Tony Abbott has no ticker....
Hacka, so your inability. wilful misunderstanding or non-acceptance of the Greens' rationale for their position on FEI increase, is meant to reflect badly on the Greens eh? Too funny.
Spare the sanctimony that Greens supporters must be scratching their heads (sub-text ie they should be).
The expressed views of admitted Green voters, supporters or those with Green views on this blog today and yesterday are that we (because I am one of them) do not have an issue with this. You must have read these comments so to suggest they would be scratching heads is just another attempt to put down, mislead and manipulate.
How much - and why should we - pay for government spin doctors? Maybe the savings if we sacked the lit in the comin zdD will enable pensioners to see real doctors.
I predict Sarah Hanson Young will be PM in 2016.
More likely Abbott will be fearing the knife - he's polling worse than Gillard!
David D - shorten will only last as opposition leaded till the election cos then he'll be the PM?
@ David D:
['Shorten will only last as opposition leader until the next election....']
A lot longer than Abbott's budget will last.
He has already concede on the GP Tax, now comes a whole raft of Climate Cange stuff.
Hacks, I bet there is more of a leadership struggle within the Liberal Party right now.
I guess you are like ..... squirrel.......
Now that we are going polysyllabic as well as wordy, here is the grabbalition slogan for the day: *Make the freezing seaborne dole bludging budget busting pensioner jihadist lefties PAY for their ABC!* (See, even covers global warming.)
You left out "tree hugging".
I don't think it will catch on - as you say too prolix for the sloganeers.
You also left out mass debating, David, which, as you pointed out yesterday, Christopher wants to put a stop to.
Wipe your chin.
Latte is missing me thinks,