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This is one of those topics that might draw some emotions from individuals so let me first tell you my situation and my thoughts. First, I'm not PMP certified, but I was headed in that direction…more on that in a moment. I applaud those who have taken the time and effort to get certified. In my experience and interactions with PMs, I've not seen any instance where a PMP certified PM was any 'better' than an experienced PM. Real experience is always the key. Project management certification means you passed the test, but it does also mean that you have training and some experience for certain and that you have the drive and dedication to get it done and achieve the certification and that's a project in itself.
I was a PMI member back in the late 1990's and early 2000's when I worked at Rockwell Collins. It was something they provided for their PMs, but pushing for actual PMP certification wasn't something they cared about. I was also managing up to 20 live projects at a time so I had no opportunity to move forward with the certification.
When I came to Las Vegas, a company I began working for in late 2004 did think it was important and wrote a clause into my hiring agreement calling for a $10k bump in pay within 6 months if I acquired my PMP certification. Naturally, I jumped on that idea and started to document my training and experience so that I could sit for the test. Unfortunately, some issues at the top of the company – which I will write about very soon in another article to be entitled "You Think YOUR Project is in Trouble!" – caused that organization to shut down and with it went my $10k incentive to get certified. Now it was time to find another position…fast.
I digress. Back to the topic at hand. Is PMP certification worth it? I personally think that the PMP designation after your name is a nice thing to have, but is no indication of how good a project manager you are or will be. Having PMP certification means that you have the proper amount of experience and training to sit for the test, and then that you correctly answered 61% of the answers on the exam. 61%.
The most frustrating thing about the PMP certification to me is the weight that employers place on this designation when looking for Project Managers. I hear this again and again from PMs looking for work. To these organizations, it's an easy screening mechanism for their HR personnel. Unfortunately, that will screen out PMs with many years of very busy and successful management of projects who worked for organizations that placed no emphasis on PMP cert and therefore didn't pay for PMI and the tests or PMs who just didn't have the time it takes to document the info and sit for the test. That is wrong.
I'm not trying to knock PMP certication completely and I definitely applaud the efforts of the PMs out there who have successfully studied for and attained the PMP designation. However, I think that PMI has done a very good job of ensuring their own financially viability with this certification. If they wanted to take it a step further, they could easily triple their organization's income if they were to create different levels of PMP certification. Let's consider this scenario:
Imagine if you took the PMP exam and got 90% right….how much would you pay or how many times would you gladly retake the test to get 91% or above and achieve black belt certification? Employers would be jumping on this and start requiring a certain level of certification or they won't even consider you. PMI's profits would soar.
PMI Processes / Real Life
PMI bases everything on the following 6 separate, but overlapping processes:
These are great and there are PM and project activities that occur within each phase. However, here's a frustrating thing for me. I write for a website that is designed to help out project managers with real-life tips culled from experience. I wrote a detailed article on each of the 8 phases of a general project management methodology that I use. I then wrote one article that contained a "quick guide" to this methodology. It outlines what the purpose of each phase is, what activities happen in each of those phases and what deliverables are generally expected out of each of those phases. This quick guide I wrote can be used by an inexperienced project manager to very quickly setup a project schedule shell for their project in MS Project or a web-based project tool like ProjectOffice.net.
However, when I published the article, I received a comment from someone saying that they had no idea what it was I was documenting…they couldn't see past the 6 PMI processes. The 6 PMI processes won't setup a project plan for you…they just tell you the 'duh' of what is involved in managing a project. They don't tell you what phases need to occur and what you need to deliver and get signed off in order to be successful. In other words, they don't give you real-life experience to help someone with. The concern was that this person read my quick guide and didn't even understand it.
This article will probably offend some. Remember, I'm not saying PMP certification is a bad thing at all. I sometimes wish I had my PMP cert. But what is bad is that employers are quickly screening out experienced individuals up front for much less experienced PMP certified project managers. It should be a 'nice-to-have.' It's a test, not real life and it should not be an in-or-out screening mechanism but I'm hearing repeatedly from PMs and organizations that it is. That's frustrating for our industry. And it's sad that it's become such big business.
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Eric D. Brown
Great article Brad.
I've argued for a long time that a certificate (PMP, MSCE, etc) is nothing more proof of what you know, not how well you can do the job.
Great ideas on levels of PMP, but even the ability to take a test doesn't really show ability...it just shows how well you can study.
What we need is certification based on real-life experience and usage of the skill.
Brad Egeland
Eric- Thanks for the comment - and I agree with certification based on real life experience, though I'm not sure how that would be setup. And as for the different levels of certification based on test scores...I was being tongue in cheek but you probably know that. I was thinking about how PMI could rake in more dollars with the certification testing because people would keep taking it - like SATs and ACTs - in order to get higher scores and look better to potential employers. Imagine the $$ potential! I sure hope PMI never goes that route though!
Kimba Green
Great post! You hit the nail on the head! I have 20 years experience and no time to test for my certification. Thanks for supporting us "non-certified" PM's.
Kimba- You are welcome...I'm right there with you. I think it's great for people to get certified, especially for younger PMs lacking some of the experience. However, it's ridiculous that it's a screening mechanism for hiring organizations. I think I'll get some comments from the other side though! Thanks again for writing.
Ronald Whistler
One of New Ideas, Incs'. operating divisions is NEW IDEAS-IN-PROJECT MANAGEMENT. We place a lot of value in certification.
I am not sure that the cons are really viewing the whole picture of PM Certification. To make the statement it does not show the worth of an individual's talent is like saying a college degree is not indicative of a persons worth.
Would you consider having an ambulance arrive at an emergency location with a paramedic or would you feel more comfortable knowing that the first person on the scene was a certified EMT/emergency medical technician?
Management looks at the PM similar to the way you would view a paramedic versus a certified EMT.
In the professional world as well as in the industrial world, Certification is an indication of how committed an individual is to his profession.
One of the threads I am hearing in this discussion as to whether PM certification is worth it or not is relevant to whether it actually represents the individual's experience.
A certified thermographer is not necessarily a good match for a company needing a Vibration Analyst. However, a certified Thermographer with 20 years experience in a power plant probably has the skills needed as a Thermographer in a Steel Mill.
The point being, the certified thermographer indicates to the employer that his/her skill level is to a point that in all probability his/her ability to apply basic proactive thermography maintenance skills to a given job in a given environment will be a shorter payback (or more cost effective) than for a non certified thermographer.
PM Certification confirms that an individual has the skills needed to manage a project. Maybe not with respect to the specifics of a certain project within a given type of company in a given environment but it does indicate that more than likely the certified PM can use PM Methodology to adapt and identify the needs necessary to bring in a project on time and within budget.
I find it quite interesting that in the discussions I have read, the value of a PM is also determined by his/her ability to communicate effectively. Unfortunately, to my knowledge, there is not a certification program for PM's regarding communications. It is paramount that a PM has communication skills (verbal and written). The successful PM will be able to effectively communicate on a one-on-one basis and within a team environment.
This however is probably another subject for another time.
Ronald- Thanks for the feedback. I need to read it over again and probably respond in more detail, but one statement really stood out for me that I have to respond to. You stated "PM Certification confirms that an individual has the skills needed to manage a project." I don't believe that to be true. Experience, satisfied customers, successful implementations as a PM, etc. confirm that an individual has the skills needed to manage a project. PM Certification confirms that an individual passed a test with at least 61% of 175 questions answered correctly. That does not confirm that they have the skills to successfully manage a team of diverse and talented individuals and a difficult customer on a complex project and make it work.
That said, it is highly likely that most PMP PMs do have the experience. My beef is that the PMP really doesn't document much beyond some training, experience and 61% of questions answered correctly. And yet businesses do hiring and screening based solely on that certfication sometimes....and that is unfortunate.
Tony Caink
While I agree that a particular certification is not required, I'd like to see all PMs have some theoretical basis for their methodology of choice.
While of course a certification alone doesn't mean much I've also seen some very experienced PMs who don't follow any methodology leaving their teams very confused.
We don't expect any other profession to do their job without the relevant degree or qualification to provide the theory.
Then of course, as for any other profession, experience on top of that theoretical foundation is everything.
The only difference with Project Management as a discipline is the fact that the qualifications are still embryonic in my view.
Ravi Raparla
Hi Brad,
I agree with your comments. I was having the same thoughts as well. Engrossed in demanding projects never had the time to prepare for PMP or other certifications but I finally did it. Moreover every big company have their own processes and require PMs to be knowledgeable about them and apply them.
I believe you are in IT where PMP is being requested widely. I see this phenomena in this field as most of the management positions are filled with non technical people unlike other engineering fields where they are filled with experienced hands on technical professionals. I am sure there are merits for this approach in IT. This makes IT project management more of a process management or a project administration with clear inputs and outputs. A PMP certification is one way to ensure that one can do process management or project admnistration effectively. I guess 61% is good enough to do this :)-
However the second factor which is crucial and often overlooked is the leadership or real management side of the project. I think it is the ability to influence positive outcomes against all odds. This requires thought leadership on all fronts. This comes with experience and hard earned skills. Unfortunately only few companies focus on this aspect of a project manager. Also not to mention it is very hard to measure how good one is on these skills with different landscapes unless having worked with them for a period of time.
Just few thoughts...open for criticisms, feedback, suggestions...
Tony- I see where you're coming from on the methodology. Preferrably, that starts with the company having a PMO with good solid repeatable processes and templates in place. Then the PM is equipped to manage the projects in the real world. Experience breeds hybrid methodologies that contain the best of the best sometimes, but at any rate experience trumps certification if you have to choose between the two. Thanks again for the comment.
Ravi- Thanks for the comment. Yes, unfortunately it seems that companies are being blind to the leadership and experience aspect. Of course, they definitely want that when they get down to hiring, but it is my assumption that they are often weeding out the best candidates because they are going at it with blinders on and letting their lazy HR reps weed out candidates based on PMP credentials. Thanks again for reading!
Hans Olsen
My cudos to Brad for his article, and it strikes many interesting points.
Having a BsC, MsC, PMP Certification is nothing more than showing one's ability to gain knowledge within a predefined curriculum / specter of theoretical information. This in return does not mean they are able to use their theoretical knowledge in a practical way. Even though most degreed professional do show their practical ability in one way or another.
I know several people that have MsC, PhD etc in various fields, but their capability to solve a practical (everyday) problem does not exist, or is limited.
E.g. a good friend of mine has a MsC in Mechanical engineering. One day many years ago we were assembling a couple of simple pieces of furniture. He could not understand how to assemble it, without sitting down and reading the instructions, not once but several times, and still struggeled while assemblying them. While for others its as simple as Lego blocks.
The idea of the PMP is to show that a individual has a certain level of fundamental understanding within the theoretical sectors of PM.
I am a PMP, and have 23+ yrs of experience in project management. When I was studying for the PMP, there were several statements written that I totally disagreed on; all of my disagreements were based on real life experiences. The PMP is as any other qualification / exam, where you have to answer according to what you are taught.
If I remember correctly, there is a European Certification that in fact, does have different levels within the certification. The level you are qualified to achieve is based upon your experience, position, level of responsibility.
As a PMP you are on the same level, whether you manage server implementations (no disrespect to any IT people) or a multibillion dollar construction project. The EU certification also requires continuous education, but also it is your own interest to keep the organization updated on your experience / level of responsibility that you have achieved.
I have worked with many good Project Managers, most of them don't have a PMP, but I do respect them and admire their achievements.
"Having the skills to successfully manage / communicate within a team of diverse and talented individuals and a difficult customer on a complex project and make it work" I feel this is a great description of a PM.
Hans- Thanks for chiming in on this. We are both at about the same level I have 24 years of IT app development and management experience but only 18 years in PM. It's nice to hear support of this stance from the perspective of one who does actually have PMP certification. I think attaining it is great and a nice accomplishment, but that it is heavily overrated by organizations as a means to determine a good project manager. Thanks again.
I couldnt agree more......The PMP certification shouldnt be used by HR during a screening process, way to many good PM out there.
Col Roberts
Don't disagree with most of your post but I suspect you are preaching to the choir.
While PMP and the other certifications are a fairly coarse filter turning up both false positives and negatives it doesn't mean personnel departments can or should dispense with filters altogether. When companies need to hire most other professions, engineers, doctors, lawyers, etc the filters that are applied are well known; education, relevant experience, membership of appropriate professional bodies, etc. The reason project management certification is necessary is because until very recently these filters did not exist in project management. As a consequence at the moment there is nothing to prevent absolutely anyone from describing themselves as a project manager.
As a result, in my experience, when you recruit project managers you are inundated with resumes from "project managers" most of whom seem to be leaders of technical teams who possess a copy of Microsoft Project and as Microsoft estimates that they have sold over 10 million copies of the product since its introduction the supply of "project managers" appears to be practically limitless... In this situation no one has the time, or patients, to wade through dozens of resumes so the certification filter is applied. I'll agree that the filter is imperfect and you will occasionally miss a good candidate but as the process normally turns up enough good certified candidates to interview, from the hiring organisation's perspective it works.
While I can sympathise with experienced PMs that are feeling marginalized I think the credentialing process of which certification is only a first step is irreversible and probably necessary to improve the status of the profession.
Col - Thanks for commenting. While I still contend that it is an unfortunate and basically unfair screening practice, I certainly understand what you're saying. There is little to keep anyone from calling themselves a project manager and most individuals with 'some' PM skills can show that on a resume.
Where the argument starts to lose water is using it as a screening method for you're either in or your out. It should be 'one' screening item. What about the job posting asking for 3-5 yrs exp. and PMP certification? If someone has 10 yrs exp but not certification, they should receive as much or more consideration. HR depts are getting very lazy and when they used to screen 'good' candidates with a phone call, they now screen on a keyword or two. They don't take the time to review resumes as they should...they rely on keywords to do their job for them. A good HR rep would realize in the first 3 minutes if the proposed PM on the other end of the phone really has the necessary experience. You hear in there speech, their confidence or lack thereof, and the quickness with which they can answer questions and discuss real life experiences.
Thanks again for the comment...
Thanks for the reply. I'm not arguing that the process is always fair, quite often it obviously isn't. What I think I'm suggesting is that the credentialing process is inevitable. In most large organisations the staff in the HR department making the first cut in the selection process will not have the skills to evaluate a candidate's professional background, whether it be in PM or anything else, hence the requirement for certification. And any candidate with ten years experience applying for a position that calls for 3 to 5 years is going to raise a whole heap of other red flags.
In some ways the argument against certification is based on a false dichotomy; skilled competent experience PMs without certification against inexperienced incompetent PMs with certification. This is no longer true, if it ever was. There are now plenty of skilled, competent experienced PMs with certification. If there weren't the HR departments filtering process wouldn't work most of the time and would be abandoned.
As I wrote in my previous post I think the process is irreversible and our friends and colleagues without certification will probably have to come to terms with it. Finally I can't think of many professions, at least not respectable ones, that doesn't require its members to submit to some formal education process.
Martien Meiland
I have been in the same position where PMI certification was encouraged, but where I simply did not have the time to complete the experience register and study for the exam and take it. However I believe that taking the exam should not be sufficient to get the PMI certification. Your idea of the cloured belts stems probably from Lean Six Sigma. The approach used there is to run a project and present your project results to coach in order to get your belt. If that were added to PMI certfication process, I believe it would far better testify whether or not your are able to manage a project. It would require to have coaches in countries where PMI is represented, but that may not be an issue as PMI has local chapters anyway.
In the mean time however we may need to live with this simple screening mechanism of HR departments and try to get certified when we do have the time. The reason is that I have heard from a former colleague who has retired now and is a member of a local chapter board, that he is working on an ISO standard for project management (ISO 21500). I am not aware whether or not he does this from his PMI representation role on education or as an individual. This standard is under development at present and targeted for publication 31st August 2012.
I think that you are missing a major point in your argument. The PMP certification may be compared to taking a bar exam or a similar test. It proves that you studied solid practices that when applied will enable you to more professionally manage projects. As with the bar exam it proves that you have learned in law school the knowledge that when applied will enable you to practice law. It does not mean that you'll be a good one.
Like any certification or degree having attained one does not mean you can apply what you have learned or be good at what you do. However, you cannot throw away the meaning of what the certifications or degrees mean in business just because you have seen that some PMPs were not managing projects as well as you. I am sure your observation was true. Having a PhD does not make the person who has it an automatic asset. It requires their ability to apply what they have learned.
This does not mean that all persons attaining a PhD or passed their bar did so in vain, and that it is meaningless. In business we do screen for 'minimum requirements' when looking for potential employees. That is a fact whether we like it or not. After obtaining my PMP and MBA I can attest that many more opportunities came my way. Like it or not this is how the world functions.
Unlike my MBA, which was many thousands of dollars, my PMP was about $350.00 (books and taking the test in 2003). That is a small price to pay to get passed a screening process for a potential good job.
1) PMP certification is not a must, is not a nice to have, PMP certification is worth to have
2) A certification is not a proof that you are 2m tall (or a PM superman)
3) Certificate discrimination is (only) another 'useful' discrimination (after age, sex or color)
Not to beat a dead horse to death but I would like to defend my statement:
In your comment you took issue with my comment "PM Certification confirms that an individual has the skills needed to manage a project."
If the above statement were to stop there than I would have to agree with you. However the rest of the paragraph was intended to clarify the all inclusiveness of this statement. Rather than repeating the rest of the paragraph in my initial post allow me the following clarification.
In my opinion a certified PM is going to have a better understanding or comprehension of PMI's methodology. The question than becomes a personal assessment of need. DOES THE PMI METHODOLOGY FIT MY NEED? It may or it may not.
Thus it is up to the PM to tweak the PMI methodology, an accepted standard, to fit the need. If the PMI methodology needs tweaking, for a given project within a given company in a given environment, than experience becomes a factor. It is my experience and my opinion being in a position to hire PM's that: given the same experience a certified PM has a better understanding of how to tweak the PMI methodology to fit the need. Again this is not to say that the PMI certification is the appropriate base but it is an accepted industry standard from which other attributes of a PM can be measured and compared to.
One post indicated there might be a movement towards Changing the PMI Certification to an ISO standard. I think this has merit but even with ISO standards comes certification and we are right back to the same discussion; is the ISO standard best for every project. Probably not!
I also think that a PM certification, that is similar to the six sigma belt process, has merit. But again will certification to any one given belt even a black belt, be best for every project. Probably not!
In my initial post, I meant to say: "I find it quite interesting that in the discussions I have read, the value of a PM is also determined by his/her ability to communicate effectively. AND I DON'T RECALL THIS BEING INCLUDED IN THE POSTS REGARDING THE VALUE OF CERTIFICATION."
Though I lean towards the PRO side of certification and post a comment or two accordingly I try to keep an open mind to both sides and definitely appreciate the discussions and/or comments published on this blog. I think all will contribute to a better PM and just might contribute to a better PMI certification program.
Teri Baskett
Yes, any certification is only a limited measure of someone's abilities or lack thereof. However, just like a college degree, it sets a minimum standard. There are PhD's out there not worth a bag of salt, as well. But the minimum standard of having a certification actually creates a Baseline for the entire playing field. There should be, I hope, many other things the company looks for, expects and values.
And, I do agree that no certification replaces experience or expertise; however, if the person cannot attain the certification (or wishes not to) then they are leaving themselves out of the running for certain positions. It's a business world, and a potential employer can have any minimum qualifications they want to pay for.
LifeSpring CIO
Col- Thanks for the followup comment. Unfortunately, PMs with 10 yrs of exp applying for positions asking for 3-5 yrs exp is just the nature of the economy these days. When 15 states have unemployment rates over 10% and Michigan is over 15%, PMs are applying for low-end PM work and Project Coordinator work and BA work and anything remotely related to their profession.
You are right...I would imagine as you do that many HR depts don't have the skills to do the right screening. However, during some of my time as a PM I've actually been a 'hiring manager' and I would always sit down with HR and discuss in detail what I needed in terms of some minimum requirements to empower them to do proper screening. A good HR person can weed out bad candidates pretty early in the conversation, but with the influx of resumes they see these days, they're probably just trying to keep their heads above water. The economy sucks...period.
Ion - Thanks for reading and responding. On #1, I disagree...still think it's just a nice to have in terms of your career, not yet a worth to have. #2, agree. #3, sadly...agree.
Martien - Yes, my idea on the different levels came from the Six Sigma designations. However, I was being tongue-in-cheek and certainly hope that PMI does not go there because that will certainly only exacerbate this current problem and will just become bigger business for PMI.
I think companies need to pay more attention to candidates 'REAL' qualifications and stop depending on the easy and lazy way of screening candidates. Most 'good' PMs I know, do not have PMP certfication, and a company would be very lucky to have any of them.
Teri- I understand where you're coming from. And if a company wants to require an MBA or a PhD, they have that right. However, requiring certification for something like being a PM (come on, we're not cutting open a body for goodness sakes), when that doesn't happen during ones 'shelf time' in college but requires some time and financial outlay and did I say time when the good ones are engaged in real life PM can present an issue.
As I just commented to another responder...most 'good' PMs I know do not have PMP certification and any company would be very lucky to have the if there were to become available.
Ronald- Thanks for the clarification post. I'm like you - I appreciate forums like this were we can argue and share ideas and basically just get different viewpoints. This type of discussion always encourages me and charges me. Sort of a healthy outlet, I guess.
My comment on the different belt levels was more of tongue-in-cheek type thing that I think would only make this issue a much bigger headache for the job hunter and the hiring organization as well as even bigger business for PMI, so I really hope they don't go there....ever.
Thanks for the comments and feel free to chime in on future comments on this topic with your thoughts as I'm sure more feedback will be flowing in the coming days.
Rick Hutchinson
Sorry... most of this "PM Tip" is rubbish. Its apparent main purpose is to highlight all the reasons why Brad doesn't have the PMP certification result. Additionally, I question *anyone* claiming to be "managing 20 live projects at a time." That's just ridic.
mark parrish
As a PMP, I agree with you on a lot of this. I do not like the PMI, but I felt obligated to join for marketing purposes. But when in Rome you do as the Romans- or move to Athens!!!
I disagree with your statement that a PM job requesting 3-5 years exp. and a PMP, should hold the same weight as a PM with 10 years experience.
Why? Experience is a factor of time, not qualification. If you sit on your ass for 10 years and do nothing to expand your knowledge are you somehow a better PM then someone that has 3-5 but took the time to get certified and can demonstrate skills to an employer. Just like a test is not a qualifier of PM ability, neither is time.
An example, I have seen many PMs bounce from one job to the next, often failing each time. they found work beucase of the demand, but were they good and progressive to their employers needs. NO! would I hire them to work for me? No, but they spent time working in my organization.
Remember most of a PMs time is downtime and preparation of getting work done through others so really what value is time spent versus a credential?
BTW- those of you who say you don't have time to get certified are making excuses. If you were incentivized and wanted it bad enough you will get it.
Parrish Whistler pmp
Ok - I have read through many of the posts in this thread that seem to cover a broad spectrum of ideas and concerns - I think that most who have the many years of experience but do not have the PMP - GO TAKE IT.
As others have pointed out in this post we need to have something in our profession that starts the process of bench marking our credentials. This is only going to help continue to make our positions valuable to a company.
Also - Standards help to make all of us more efficient - I am sure there are many of you in this post that have had to come in and pick up a project where another PM left off and was difficult due to the previous PM not following a standard process (Methodology).
And as far as using PMI as a screening tool - Again go out and get it, in todays economy it is unfortunate for what is happening and all the good resources that are let go but you have to do something to set yourself apart - This is one way to do it without spending the thousands of dollars for a masters.
It is called change - Good PM's adapt to and manage change.
Rick - Thanks for commenting - but it's not rubbish, nor is this thread to justify my not having PMP certification. I do plan to get it when I have some time - possibly in the next 12 months if I can get around to it.
As for managing 20 live projects at a time....are you calling me a liar? At that time I was the only PM managing all internet, intranet, and extranet projects for a pretty large organization and the web team had all they could handle. Only a handful of those were 'hot' projects at any given time. There were actually over 160 projects queued up in my area of coverage, but only about 20 were actually funded at any given time and of those usually about 5-8 were moving along. They weren't the multi-million $$ type projects though. Not at that time.
Mark- I was not equating 3-5 yrs with PMP to 10 yrs without. 10 yrs without is better, IMO. And when I say experience, I really mean experience...not 10 years of going through the motions. Those individuals should get weeded out by a good HR rep whether they have PMP or not. You and I both know that. I'm talking about real experience...and that can't be equated to any test that someone studied for.
I agree that for the sake of pleasing hiring employers that it should probably be acquired, but it's unfortunate that it is such a weed-out factor for lazy HR reps and hiring managers. That's all I am contending.
Parrish- Thanks for responding. I agree...in the long run the PMs without it probably just need to make the time to go out and get it. Many, like me, have worked for organizations that didn't really value it and therefore don't pay for it but do require a decent sized workload and as time goes by you realize you just never had the time and didn't get around to it.
Truth is, we should now make the time and adjust to what the organizations seem to be interested in. I just still contend that it's unfortunate that this is the course it has taken. Hiring organizations have taken the easy route and just use it as a weed-out tool. That's lazy...but they are allowed to do it.
Brad - It may seem lazy but as you can attest to having many projects on your plate you have to be organized and have a system (Methodology) to be successful to handle that kind of workload. With that said - How can you expect an HR person to evaluate what is and is not a good PM by reading their entire resume - there has to be some kind of measurement (In our world KPI - Key Performance indicator) to judge by.
So I agree that there are highly qualified PM's that do not have the PMP certification - but they have to do themselfs a favor and get the certification so they can come to the surface and get the recognition. I have a full time job, manage my own company with my father and take care of a special needs child that is Autistic and Epileptic along with a Teenage Son who has ADHD - I am not a rocket scientist but I am good at what I do - I made the time (Late nights into mornings)studied and passed the test. So if you want to value yourself (General term) and stay in the game - it is a small price to pay for continued success.
Parrish- I certainly don't disagree with you. I merely feel that it is unfortunate that that has to be the case. However, I think we're to that point in the economy. I was even reading the other day that employers don't want to hire unemployed...only want employed in many cases as they feel they are the best of the best. They may be right, except in the cases of business closings, etc. I still feel HR orgs are being lazy, but I can't say I wouldn't do the same if I was in their shoes :)
Thanks for commenting - but it's not rubbish
I didn't say it was rubbish... I said most of it was rubbish (and wouldn't expect you would agree or you wouldn't have poste it).
>>>nor is this thread to justify my not having PMP certification
It only appears that way to me. You either have the result or the reasons why not... and you certainly have a lot of reasons why not. This is an age-old discussion and can be applied to many different activities, awards, certifications, degrees etc. I realize your main heartburn is about companies using it as a
"screen." I say get used to it and go with the flow or face the music. Companies have always used many techniques to screen (and probably always will). Your comments consistently state something approximate to... "hiring organizations, lazy HR reps, and lazy hiring managers take the easy route and just use it as a weed-out tool." That sure rings like a sweeping generality (to me).
As for managing 20 live projects at a time….are you calling me a liar?
No, didn't intend to call you a "liar." My point was that I would question what type of projects and to what level of management *anyone* could have managing 20 projects at one time. My opinion is that the PM would be grossly ineffective/successful or the projects were grossly simple. I don't believe anyone can effectively apply quality project management to 20 projects at the same time. Now... if you are program managing and you have PMs project managing those projects, that's a different story. However, that's not what you said. A small part of what the PMP certification helps to do is to get us all more towards a standard language, terminology, processes, etc... that leads to better understandng and ability to communicate with each other. Perhaps your description of managing 20 projects is different to what "managing" 20 projects is to me. And there lies the rub.
Because of many different posts seeming to imply that if someone holds a PMP cert, they somehow *may* not have sufficient experience or *may* not have the experience compared to some of their non-PMP colleagues, a comment to those of you that may not know and/or to those of you that may have forgotten... in order to sit for the PMP you must document your experience. While I don't recall the exact requirements of experience... it's a pretty substantial requirement. So... before the study, practice, training, and anxiety leading to the qualification test... you don't even get permission to take the test until you demonstrate you have substantial experience. Someone's always going to better or more effective than others in different situations. The title of the blurb asks... "Is PMP Certification Worth It?" My answer is yes.
Well I have to jump in again.
Point 1
Against my better judgment and at the risk of starting a series of comments that are not constructive or directed to the question at hand, I feel Ricks comments are out of place and I applaud you for publishing them. Most PM's working within a company that is a champion for putting projects into a project management format, are likely to work on more than just one project at a time depending on their complexity.
I would encourage readers and participants to keep comments constructive PRO or CON. The posts thus far, from my point of view, have adhered to this principle making this blog one of the very few I have given any time to.
Point 2
How about putting a little twist to this;
W-which has greater value; a masters in Project Management or PMI certification, assuming the only choice is one or the other, not whether both are better.
Mark Jones
Hi All,
Q. If I can study and sit the PMP exam in 2 days... what will I learn from it? And what will stick or will be new to me?
I specialise in "Project Rescue", which is a unique skill. I come into a project run by many PMP's who, for many reasons, found that their project was seriously off the rails. As these are typically large, technical projects, their study was no match for experience.
So let me put this out there...(I love to stir passionate discussion)
In my experience, there are two type of project managers in the market (in Melbourne).
90% of all project managers should be labelled as "Project Administrators" and only 10% show the project leadership, skills and visionary qualities required to be a true project manager.
A PMP certification does not impart the same knowledge that is gained from real experience. 1-3 years of PMP makes people great project administrators!
What is your experience?
Hi Mark,
LOL... ok I'll bite.
First, not sure if I even understand your first two questions... but if I assume you mean "if I study for 2 days, and sit for the PMP exam, what will I learn from it" and "what will stick and be new to me"
My answer is that first you will probably learn that you cannot study for two days and pass this exam... I don't care if you studied 48 hours straight, have 100 years of experience, and are the fastest gun-slingin, special ops, crime scene investigating, hottest licks guitar player that Australia ever laid on the world. 8^).
Secondly, if you studied for only two days you would probably not retain much at all. It's pretty common knowledge that both "experience" and "study" fade consistently over time if not used. However, experience + study, continuously applied along with an open mind that strives for continuous improvement (along with a dash of humility) works miracles and makes dreams come true.
No way anyone except you could know what would be new to you as you are the only one that knows your true baseline. So I really don't get the point of those questions (other than to give us all a little fun, or as you said "stir passionate debate" ("upover" in the states that's sometimes known as "shit-disturbin!")... but it's all good.
Rick - I liked Mark's post (you knew that I would) and will comment on it separately. However, I wanted to quickly respond to yours. First, you have to be kidding that an experienced PM needs that much experience and studying to get 61% right. I've done extremely well on the practice exams I've messed with after very little study/review.
And I'm sure you're right about retention...but I don't think that the info from the test applies that well to help a PM in the real world of running a multi-million $$ project other than having discipline. It's a test...like the ones I took in college. Sometimes I studied hard and sometimes I didn't. But I took those tests - without the experience...just studying...and did well. Didn't retain it for a long time, but graduated with a nice degree and moved on to the real world.
To answer your earlier post. I have 24 years of IT experience as an application developmer, application development manager, configuration manager, production manager, program manager and project manager. The last 18 years have been focused on Project and Program Management and Implementations ranging anywhere from $5000 internal projects to $50 million long range programs. I do know the difference between a project and a program and I do know specifically what a project is. I've been managing them for years. Sometimes start to finish and sometimes coming in to rescue projects like Mark Jones is doing.
Mark Jones- Thanks for the post - I think we have a similar view on this topic! Those 90% of PMs (or whatever percent any reader believes it to be...but it is basically a truism to some percentage) likely end up running projects that do not require the same amount of leadership, innovation and problem-solving skills that the other 10% require.
I've been on customer facing projects where the customer had their own PM to ensure they were in the game on their side. Ususally that was fairly unnecessary because they aren't the ones knowledgeable on the implementation and therefore are just sort of a gatekeeper - and the customer would soon realize that. Some of those 90% (or whatever %) are going to fit in there. They either aren't motivated or - hopefully more likely - are less experienced and are learning on the job - which is great.
Do I have to course wrong then? It is offered as a 4-6 day preparation workshop in Melbourne (http://www.pm-partners.com.au/pdf/TC1041.pdf)
Brad, I think that we are from the same school of thought.
I struggle to see how many of the "desired" certificates really add employable value over not having them. ITIL Foundation? Prince2 Foundation?
I have 18 years experience in IT Infrastructure and also manage large complex projects\programs between $5000 and $50m.
I have not studied formally in anything I do... I am completely self taught. I had this same discussion over 10 years ago when people told me I had to have my MSCE even though I was light years ahead of it back then.
The PMP course is a great course for a "Project Administrator". Experience and people skills are required to get you further...
Mark Jones & all - I've re-thought this and would like to re-iterate my stance here. I think 90% may be high...I would put the number at more like 60-70%. And those are likely less experienced PMs who are not yet put in the same mission-critical difficult customer-facing roles or 'rescue mission' projects that the other 30-40% are ready for.
I think, with experience, most of those 60-70% usually get there. Maybe 20% overall fall away or choose a different profession. Experience - with gradually more challenging roles and projects to manage and a more diverse portfolio of projects - will get a project manager who has the leadership abilities there eventually. That's been my findings so far on the PMs I've worked with and the companies I've worked for. Of course, good management, good processes, and a good PMO (if applicable) will help alot.
Rick - I liked Mark's post (you knew that I would) and will comment on it separately. However, I wanted to quickly respond to yours. First, you have to be kidding that an experienced PM needs that much experience and studying to get 61% right.>>>
Mark, I was kidding just a little (about the 100 years experience part, but not the hot guitar licks part). Look... what I get is that it's clear you haven't taken the test... because in your mind you think it's about "61% correct"... and in a way, it is, but if I recall correctly, we must have a minimum correct in several different categories so you have to have the breadth... and depth... of knowledge. It's a tricky test, if anyone wants to be positional and assumes they can rely on their real-world experience only... with minimal prep and understanding of the "PMI approach and standards expectations"... and one marches in there cocky and "I'm all experienced so I can slay any dragon"... you will get knocked out in the first round and fail because that strategy won't work... no kidding. If you think I'm kidding... go ahead and try it.
If it's so easy to hit 61% when someone has several decades of real-world experience driving multi-multi-gazillion dollar projects... what's the fuss... jump on in there tomorrow and ace it... let me know how that goes.
Funny where this thread has gone... maybe you should consider retitling your post from "Project Management: Is PMP Certification Worth It? to be "Project Management: PMP Certification Has No Benefit: It Is A Scam Designed To Make PMI Money & Keep Us Busy Non-PMP PMs Out Of Interviews & New Job Opportunities"
Rick- Thanks for the followup comment. I actually think this kind of back and forth discussion (banter?) is good and challenging...as long as we keep it fun and in good taste. As for 61%...I do realize that it is harder than it sounds and I don't ever think it's a good idea to just 'wing it' on a test - it usually doesn't work no matter how much real world experience you have (and it certainly didn't work with my oldest son the first two times he took his driver's test!).
I've seen the types of questions on the test and it does sometimes appear that most of the multiple choices could be the right answer, but you have to choose the best answer. What's frustrating - and another reader commented on it - is that sometimes that best answer doesn't match with how it plays out on a real project with a real customer.
Thanks for the comments...
In the context of a self employed contractor...
5 days off would cost me $5000 in potential earnings...
Plus the course costs of $5000. (all approximate)
So I would ask myself "Is PMP Certification Worth It?"
What value would be gained for me and my customers? and is that value worth the $10000 investment?
Would I potentially win more project work with my PMP certification?
Would purely having PMP certification restrict my options for Prince2 and Agile roles?
I dont know the answers, but I do know that I have survived in IT for 18 years without it... perhaps I will ride the wave of luck and chance.
Mark & all - Yep...sadly that's what it comes down to. Because it exists and because HR orgs rely on it, it comes down to the PM being faced with a decision of getting the PMP if they think it will help them in their job search. The ones who probably 'need' it the most in this economy sadly are the ones who can least afford to spend the money that Mark is describing and that's unfortunate.
Mark, I understand completely. We all have to continuously do our CBAs and ROIs and hopefully make the right decisions. Everyone's different and their situations can be vastly different. Is PMP Certification Worth It?... it depends!
Joshua Colgan
It's hard to respect an article written about a certification by someone who has never earned it. First off, we live in a world of certifications and degrees and not getting one isn't going to change the world, it's just going to cut your potential for getting your foot in the door of a new opportunity. Secondly, I view the PMP similar to a black belt in martial arts, which is a mastery of the foundation and basics. I have a much easier time working with PMPs regardless of experience level, as all PMPs speak the same project language and have a fundamental understanding of a proven methodology. I interface with many PMs who have many years of experience, but lack conceptual understanding in key areas, work inefficiently, or simply have trouble with advanced project management concepts. A PMP cert would greatly improve the way they function in a PM role as well as clarify their understanding of what project management is, not just in their company or division, but globally.
A big reason that many businesses respect the PMP certification is that it pre-screens many PM job candidates for them. As mentioned, a PMP means that they are hiring someone with a solid foundation and fundamental understanding of project management. People can lie on a resume, can make up stories, percentages, and figures, but college degrees and certifications are easily verified. I know that if a new project manager comes on board with a PMP, that he or she will be able to hit the ground running and come up to speed quickly, otherwise it's a crapshoot. Conversely a PMP doesn't mean that someone will automatically be a great PM, but it does show their dedication for the profession, an investment in themselves, and much less risk of hiring someone who looks good on paper, but lacks the fundamental knowledge required. Additionally, as a hiring manager, I would wonder why any serious professional would not have invested in themselves with a certification like PMP or Prince II, or a MBA or other related graduate degree. If they wont invest in themselves, why should I?
The PMP is so loved and hated because it is hard, it is time consuming, and it will test the limits of your understanding of project management as a whole. The PMP exam is not like many certifications that you just cram for or memorize, and pass. This makes many people angry who lack experience and/or time to study, as well as those who have years of experience, but have gaps in their knowledge of PM. After all, it is much easier to complain about something than to actually accomplish it.
Finally, as mentioned previously, its hard to respect an article speaking out against a certification that the author doesn't have. It sounds just like the manager with no college degree who is complaining that his peer is getting paid more just because he has one. That is the way life works, accept it and stop wining or get the certification and then bash it if you still feel you haven't benefited from the experience.
Why are we blaming HR for requiring the PMP? Very few jobs require it but many recommend it. Job requests come from hiring managers not HR people. If they don't then you should blame the manager that is hiring people based on someone else's requirements definition.
But also please blame yourself and how you market your brand (skills) for why you can't get your foot into the door past HR. In my last two jobs I never even spoke to HR until I was hired!
Besdies if you throw your resume into a stack of 300-500 applicants for each advertised job, what is going to differentiate you from someone else. Degrees, certs, experience. It's a numbers game and no one is going to read a resume of quick hits on projects and pull you to the top of the pile. The PMP is filtered by resume screening databases and puts you in the to be considered pile.
BTW-A resume by its nature is full of half truths and embelishments.
As far as the post where most people are project administrators, that is true but isn't the poster of this thread an administrator? That is his title is manager but he manages 120+ projects? Hmmmmmm.
The fact is that PM is about administration, without the glorified I am a leaader, team builder,great communicator, blah blah blah. Get over it, as a PM you and I administer other people's work. We have accountability without authority!
So if you asked the question of who is a real PM and who is an administrator, 100% would say they are a PM and 100% would say that they are a great PM. How do you quantify one from another? But with a 70% failure rate on projects, we are second to baseball in having a career where we can be correct 30% of the time.
So if Brad manages 20 projects at once and is a great PM and fails 50% of the time, does he still fail on 10 projects? He would say he probably delivers 100% and his resume would reflect that.
Do you list failures on your resume? The first question I ask when interviewing PMs is: "Tell me about a project failure and what did you do good or bad?"
Is PMP Certification Worth It? - My Anal
[...] welcome everyone to comment no matter how you feel. Go to the original article at www.pmtips.net/project-management-pmp-certification-worth/ and comment and you can comment here, as well. And as always, you can track down my email in my [...]
Barry K
Although I agree with you in that there are lots of great PMs out there who are not PMP certified. I also understand that there are many PMP certified paper-champions with very little experience. I just don't buy into the entire 'I don't have enough time' excuse for not obtaining certification. If your career is important to you and that's what employers desire I'm not sure why employees wouldn't put the same effort into it as getting a degree or taking other courses. The more PM experience you have the less study is actually necessary(although still will be time consuming). In the end PMP certification doesn't certify experience- it certifies working knowledge. In the same way that a degree doesn't show what you know as much as that you have the ability to learn.
Joshua- Thanks for commenting on the article. I also just published another one - basically a followup on how the comments are going so far. The next article is live at http://zz.gd/ae6a33. I would also welcome your comments there.
In response to your comment. I'm not bashing the certification. I think it's frustrating to the large number of experienced PMs out there who are actively seeking positions but are being screened out by HR depts because the designation is not on their resume. I think it can be one of the 'potential' screens, but I'm hearing that it is being abused as a black-or-white type of screening process. I think that is unfair, but it is what it is and hiring organizations and hiring managers can really do whatever they want to do and think is best...or easiest. We all have to accept that. I've not been a 'hiring manager' for awhile, but when I was I knew how to work the system with HR and the candidates to get who I wanted for a position - even if that meant tailoring a job description to be able to hire the experienced contract employee I had circumvent the company policy to consider internal employees first. So, I've been there and I was good at it.
I understand the common terminology comments that a few are making, but in the real life world I don't believe it holds up. I think the PMP - as a few have commented - should be a good way for less experienced PMs to gain some solid consideration in this difficult job market, but it shouldn't be screening out the good and very experienced PMs just because they don't have it.
In the end, since anyone can and will screen on what they want to in order to make it faster or easier, the state of the issue is that job seekers probably do just need to go get it. Oh well....
Barry K - Thanks for chiming in. I disagree - I think there are alot of experienced PMs out there who don't have the time because they're focused on work. Getting degrees for most of us occurred prior to our professional careers. And I don't agree that the PMP shows working knowledge. Experience shows working knowledge. I believe that the PMP shows book/study knowledge. It's a given that you can't sit for the PMP exam without documented experience. But I've reviewed practice exams and heard from test takers and teachers. Some of the answers on the exam don't match up with what real life experience teaches us. So, maybe it shows some working knowledge because you have to have that anyway, but the actual exam shows you studied and passed the test.
I'm not knocking it...it's a certification that is out there and yes...we probably all should have it. But we don't all have it and I personally contend that it should not be an in-or-out screening mechanism. But organizations can do what they want to so the bottom line is if you're searching for a PM position your best off if you go out and get the certification.
Mark Parrish - Where did you get the idea that I was a project administrator? I had that title about 20 years ago when I was moving into project management on a large government contract. No, I'm not a project adminstrator.
I'm also not complaining for myself and my ability to get past HR. I am mostly consulting right now and work directly with my current customer base on project management processes, strategic planning, etc. I'm merely referring to the state of the industry in general and what I'm hearing from PMs who are looking for work. I think it's unfortunate that it is being used as an absolute on screening processes.
Carol Reynolds
Are there really 6 process groups? I thought there were 5 process groups and 9 knowledge areas.
Like it or not, many government bids mandate PMP certification. So even if you are good, you don't get the job without it.
I agree with Barry's posting: In the end PMP certification doesn't certify experience- it certifies working knowledge. In the same way that a degree doesn't show what you know as much as that you have the ability to learn.
If you don't have it - I believe that says something.
Carol- Thanks for commenting. You're right..if you don't have it it does say something...that you don't have it. It doesn't say why you don't have it but that isn't really anyone's concern but yours and you can make excuses and in the end if the job you want asks for it then you're out of luck if you don't have it. We all know that.
FYI - I've worked on many government contracts and it's never been required - most recently one with the DoD. But I do acknowledge the accuracy of what you're stating and it happens in the private sector as well. Thanks again.
Great topic!! The truth is there is no perfect way to measure experience or working knowledge. PMP certification is an attempt to and it does represent project management knowledge(and at least a little work experience in that you need to have a certain amount of it).Arguing that an in-or-out PMP certification credential isn't fair is in a lot of ways like arguing that some people interview well and it doesn't necessarily validate their experience. I went through a job search a few months back and I'd say 50% of the positions required PMP certification and maybe 10% required it within a certain amount of time after hire. So for those of us who put the time and effort outside of the 50-60 hours a week we worked it does seem fair that we are rewarded with 2 opportunities per every 1 for those who haven't put that effort in. However, that doesn't mean we are sure to get the position if our work experience doesn't match our title. There really isn't much you can do about it as the system isn't perfect, but I think it works. Employers are smart enough to weed out the individuals who do not have the experience through the interview process.
You stated:
I'm merely referring to the state of the industry in general and what I'm hearing from PMs who are looking for work. I think it's unfortunate that it is being used as an absolute on screening processes.
If the PMs have time to look for work(or are out of work)- why wouldn't they have time to study for the test or do a boot camp? It just sounds like an excuse......
Anyways- this topic is one that has been argued since I can remember and will probably never be agreed upon. I remember hearing of MCSE certified individuals with zero years experience. That's why the PM hours makes this certification stand out.
Good thoughts. All I would say is that when you cant beat them, join them. If you have the experience and the knowledge, it dosent require more than a couple of days to acquire the certification.
You listed your experiences as a manager! So you must be an administrator.
But I figured out the real problem for this thread. You are a consultant and are being beaten out by people with PMPs! Somewhere along the line the PMP became a standard, but you don't suscribe, so there must be something wrong with it!
You are questioning the value of something that you didn't obtain as being unfair. Get a grip. Study one hour per week for 30 weeks, take the test and pass through the screening process. If you can!
Most practioners of PM have a hard time passing the test the longer that they have been doing PM work.
But then you won't have any excuses for not getting hired. We can continue to blame HR, because they hate me. Well maybe since a lot of PMs have MBAs we can whine about that next.
BTW- you don't know the state of the industry otherwise you would have your PMP. You know your sphere of influence, which is not in a day-to-day organization.
Here is my take on the PM consultant industry having worked in multiple engagements with them. Recently unemployed or unemployable that can't work with others on a dialy basis. Most PM consultants are crash and burn artists who bounce from one job to another and leave before the project is operationalized. Well adept at blaming others for why the project fails-but never one that they worked on.
Michael Parascand
Per the following comments from Hans Olsen on July 28th, 2009 3:11 am: "Having a BsC, MsC, PMP Certification is nothing more than showing one's ability to gain knowledge within a predefined curriculum / specter of theoretical information. This in return does not mean they are able to use their theoretical knowledge in a practical way."
Yes, a PMP certification proves the ability to understand a set curriculum and pass a test. But to this regard, one thing I didn't see mentioned is that you have to QUALIFY to sit for the exam based on extensive hours of real hands on project management experience. Not just anyone can sit for the exam. You must be an experienced practitioner of project management methodology. This may be why HR does look for the PMP distinction.
Mark Parrish- Again, you're assuming too much. I'm not 'being beaten out' by PMPs. I've not had issues with that - but felt this was a good topic to write about and discuss. You know what happens when you assume too much.... You want to make assumptions, write your own articles. I'm stating facts and I've been extremely open about my experiences and background for all to see on this blog. If you think I'm lying...we can deal with that separately, Mark. Stick to the discussion...that's all I ask.
Michael - I think most of the readers understand that you have to have a certain number of hours of experience in order to first sit for the exam. So your comment is duly noted and makes sense for HR depts because it confirms that you somehow documented enough experience. I still contend it's a lazy route for HR to take because you can note that same experience on your resume. I've filled out the info for taking the exam...you're just restating your resume in a different format. Thanks for the comment.
Yuvi- Good comment. If you need to find a position, it's probably best to just get the PMP cert. The paperwork is a pain, but yes, if you're experienced hopefully it doesn't take too much prep. At least the practice exams in my case showed that to be the case.
Nigel Gillingham
Like many I believe that just having an academic PM qualification does not make you a competent project manager. You can spend days in a classroom preparing for and taking PM exams to prove that you can digest and regurgitate knowledge - but how many have the confidence and practical experience to put it into practice once they get back to their workplace.
Whilst I fully support any method that instils elements of PM discipline and rigour (I have the UK equivalent certification as well as many years experience) I know that just sitting in classrooms preparing for and taking exams is not the solution. It gives you the knowledge but the measure of project management competence is not academic standards - it's about knowledge, application and above all delivery of what the sponsor and business needs!
Despite many 'formal' or 'industry standard' PM methodologies the % of project failures remains pretty static at ~80% and the underlying causes have not changed in years - yet we continue to make the same mistakes while upholding the value of the same PM certifications. This indicates to me that the academic principles are either wrong..., or that we try to apply the same bureaucratic methodology on every project - a one size fits all mentality - when we know full well that each project is, by definition, unique! The methodology may get further diluted by the organisational culture, especially when things start to go wrong and principles go out of the window.
At our company we believe that people should have a grounding in PM by using real tools & techniques and templates either in a safe, simulated environment or with the help of experts to coach, initiate and mobilise their projects. Our approach is based on Goal Directed Project Management, which unlike many methodologies, actually focuses on those areas that normally cause project failure. This can be uncomfortable when project objectives, end goal, success criteria and roles & responsibilities are specified up front but with achievement based milestones (stated as outcomes rather than just deliverables) the approach soon wins hearts and minds and the simple, non-bureaucratic approach can be used to complement and enhance any other formal methodologies as well as being applied by project experts or novices alike.
More importantly people can be effective immediately they get back to work using the tools & techniques they are now familiar with - not just a course book destined for the book shelf and opened only occasionally to find reference to a unfamiliar PM term.
As confidence grows and successful projects start to litter their CV's then I believe this is the time when our PM 'practitioner' should decide which, if any certification is the one for them - using their practical experience to test, support and validate the theory rather than the other way round.
In a demanding programme and project environment would I choose to surround myself with an unknown project team oozing with expensively gained qualifications or those who can demonstrate at interview that they have used real practical application? - then I'd choose the latter any day.
If you are interested you can find out more about the GDPM based approach at: http://www.ffwdpm.com/what-is-gdpm.html
Nigel - Wow...I like what you said and how you stated it. I don't think I can add anything to it. Well said and thanks for commenting.
Brendan Sinclair, PMP
Great article Brad.
I agree with many of your points. PMP certification is often nice to have. I know PMs with and without the PMP designation. They are outstanding and their amount of experience is key.
My principal vocation is network engineering where I have 13 years experience. I saw obtaining PMP certification as an excellent complement to my current Cisco certifications. I can atest that there are very few PMP certified Network Engineers. I also agree that there are a number of network engineers who have certifications that I would never let near a network I manage. They've got paper certs. I have of course met some excellent engineers who have none. To those engineers, I think they do themselves a great disservice.
There are some points in this topic that have yet to be addressed. A PMP certification requires a commitment to continuing education on a three year cycle as you are probably well aware. Additionally, it requires adherence to a code of ethics. PM's without the PMP designation have no such requirement and I suspect these are also aspects that motivate employers to strongly favor PM's with the PMP designation.
My personal experience demonstrates obtaining the PMP designation was worth it on many levels. First, it definitely was a project in itself. This exam was well outside my comfort zone I studied over 300 hours in two months. Second, the experience of just working for PMP certification empowered me to get the next level of Cisco certification. This in turn has made me very marketable even in a poor economy. Therefore I think PMP certification is a worthwhile goal since it does make a PM more marketable especially when compared against others with similar experience.
The value of a certification, or an academic degree for that matter, will be derived in the spirit in which obtained. Some merely pass and have no commitment to continuing their education. These are the people of which you speak. They dilute the value of a certification. There are those who do have commitment to their profession. In these cases, a certification can be very worthwhile.
I do not respect seasoned PM's who knock the PMP. If its such an easy certification to obtain, then why not obtain it and make themselves even more marketable? This exam might be 61% of 175 questions, but it is by no means easy.
Brendan - Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experience. And please understand, I'm not knocking the PMP at all...just how it's being used by potential employers to weed out candidates who are otherwise very good candidates in favor of some definitely questionable candidates. I've interviewed both types of candidates (PMP and non-PMP) and the designation did not give an overall indication of the qualities of that PM...that was derived from how they expounded upon their experience. A good interviewer can gather that info - but I think HR groups are wrongly relying heavily on this designation. That's my major concern. I applaud the individuals who obtain it and probably will do that myself at some point (and I'll let you all know if and when that happens...believe me...). Thanks again.
This good thread has made me go and reassess the various Certs available. Being an Aussie I have the choice of PMP, Prince2 and AIPM as all are equally well respected here.
Of these I see the PMP as the most generic as the PMBOK doesn't really contain the concrete implemetation of any processes at all. So I see it as the supertype of the other methodologies (though the Prince2 people might not agree). Prince2 does have quite a lot of concrete process that maps nicely to PMBOK and to my mind has better governance. AIPM seems even more useful as it assesses on the job experience under the PMBOK framework with whatever concrete implementation the PM has used. (Plus I have a mate who is an assessor ;)
But it still comes back to the general idea of whether there should be any qualifications at all for the PM discipline. I think its absolutely ridiculous to suggest there shouldn't be, unless we want to be seen as a bunch of quacks backed only by our own assertions. Given that the modern form of the profession is so young it think the sooner it standardises its qualifications the better.
As a PM just about to take on my first large project I'd prefer to see the experienced PMs in the industry taking the lead and getting certified. If you personally have your own methodology, it will no doubt map under the broad PMBOK framework and possibly fill in some gaps - so why don't you publish it as a concrete system. (Business idea!)
Its not a good message to say that 18 years experience makes certification irrelevant. Sure 18 years ago you could get into PM without qualifications but our discipline has grown up a lot since then (though still in infancy). There's no easy path into PM without certification these days so your position is OK for you but you are risking being seen as a dinosaur in the eyes of those starting out now.
As to whether the PMP is the best standard just because its the market leading qualification in the US at the moment is an entirely worthwhile discussion of course.
Even if it is just an exam one can cram for, at least it covers the breadth of the methodology. So for candidates it will bring 'Unconscious Incompetence' up to 'Conscious Incompetence' so they can address these areas. Even the most experienced PM can be caught by what they don't know that they don't know. So a crammed certification at least provides some QA for HR that one has at least heard of all areas of the job.
Even technical certs such as Microsoft or Cisco etc are similarly broad and shallow but still useful.
Tony - Thanks for the followup comment. Thanks for the idea on publishing the methodology - I've checked into bookwriting and I'm not really up for it at the moment. I have published about 9,000 words on it on PMTips so far. Hopefully it is useful to some and reaches those in need.
Thanks again.
Whenever I read posts like this I have to laugh. Oh, the PMP isn't really indicating that a person is qualified to be a project manager. Duh! The PMP isn't about being truly qualified to be a project manager, but shows you've gained some knowledge and skills at project manager. The PMP is partially about having documented experience in the field and that you've taken a test and shown you've come to understand or at least learn some general guidelines about the field of project management.
If you want to keep making the PMP out to be more than it is, go ahead, but a lot of employers look at it like one of the previous posters indicated. If you're sick, you're going to look for those people who can show they have training in the medical field before you go to someone without it. Well, most of us will and then there are some folks who won't look for that qualification. Which are you? Now, as you're looking at that qualification is that the only consideration you use to decide which doctor to go to? No, probably not, but it is still an important factor.
Come on people, wake up. It's only one selection criteria unless the company is not smart enough to use other filters to determine the qualified project managers from the less than qualified project managers. Some less qualified project managers can slip through, but that's the problem you have in any profession. Just ask Michael Jackson, oh wait, that's not possible because it seems a less than qualified doctor was at his side before he died. Sorry, it's a bad example, but it's also a very true and recent example on how it doesn't matter what the career field is, you have to make sure the person is qualified in the field and skills they say they're qualified in.
Ref: Michael Parascand reply to my post.
Regarding experience needed:
As of today I know of at least 5-7 individual didn't have sufficient experience for the PMP qualification, but "adjusted" their CV in order to meet minimum requirements.
As I remember there is no "background check" from PMI, which I found strange when I applied (2004-2005).
I also agree with many of the comments out there that a majority of certified PMP are more Project Administrator them Project Manager.
Rick :
I couldnt agree more....This what I tried to communicate in one of my previous comments.
Project Management: Is PMP Certification
[...] See more here: Project Management: Is PMP Ce... [...]
Rick - Good points. And I still contend that the PMP doesn't prove you have skills to be a good project manager. It proves you have some experience documented (in order to sit for the exam) and that you passed the test. Good to have, but unfortunate when a company uses it as an initial screening mechanism (in or out) because they are lazy or just don't take the time to actually review resumes. There are companies out there that won't even look at your resume if you don't have the PMP cert on it - I've heard this first hand from others...it is true. That's their perogative, I know...and we all have to live with it. Meaning get PMP cert if you want it and need it, but in the end it isn't proof that you're good. But companies act like it is. And I've heard from a lot of frustrated PMs as a result.
Sharan Regalla
First of all thanks for bringing this question to the crowds.
In my opinion, it's a qualification which is not necessarily mandatory to exibit the management skills.
I am sure that a HR expert who understands Project Management wouldn't filter the profiles based on the PMP. But, it will be certainly considered based on the volume of the resumes received for the position.
Hope again we're not intended to discuss whether it's an art or science. Where the later one requires both education and practice.
But, I have seen several cases who have really got a good break with PMP.
So, I conclude that it's aid for getting an early break.
Sharan- Thanks for weighing in on this topic. I think good HR reps can tell who the good PMs are during a phone interview - and probably have a good idea just from a detailed resume review. Yes, the problem now is with the state of the economy, there aren't many PM jobs out there, and the ones that are out there probably receive thousands of resumes (at least hundreds). So I shouldn't probably say lazy - although I still think it's lazy to 'require' PMP cert unless they are recruiters looking for a client who is definitely requiring it.
Links for Aug 2 2009 | Eric D. Brown - T
[...] Project Management: Is PMP Certification Worth It? Brad Egeland on Project Management Tips [...]
I'm makok_makok.Thank you for your message@twitter.
> 91-100% correct answers = PMP Black Belt
> 81-90% correct answers = PMP Brown Belt
> 71-80% correct answers = PMP Green Belt
> 61-70% correct answers = PMP Yellow Belt
I laughed.these levels are like certifications of Oracle.
As tweeting at Twitter,I also think the important thing is experience of real project management.
In Japan,Many people get PMP certification. But as far as I know,few of them can manage their projects.
However,about PMBOK,I think it is very useful to learn the method of pm.It is knowledge organized by many professionals,I think that is significant.
Makok - I was not being serious about those black belt levels - I certainly hope PMI never goes that route as that will only make this issue a bigger problem than it already is. Experience is key. Having the PMP is a nice acknowledgement that you have some experience and passed the test. But since 'extensive' experience is not required to pass the test, I think it is definitely wrong that HR depts. do a complete screen on this certification alone on some positions. I have nothing at all against the certification and realize I should just go ahead and get it myself. It's what companies are using it for that I feel is wrong.
Thanks for commenting.
My response to this question on qualification is in a similar line to the others, whilst i've not personally taken the PMI which is a mainly American focused qualification, I have other PM (Project Manager/Management) qualifications. These qualifications do not and cannot replace experience but i think it is about having a "common language or processes/procedures" for project management.
I think it is about managing risk within project organisations. It is about structuring projects in such a manner that we (PM's) are not in ourselves a risk to the project. i.e. if we leave the organisation or are somewhat inaccessible, then whatever projects we were managing becomes "inaccessible".
You'd find a great deal of similiraties in all PM qualifications out there. The main 3 i think being Prince2, PMI and APM and hence a similarity with the language spoken between the qualified "elite" i say with trepidation.
My 2 pence of comments added.
Rebecca Baty
What annoyed me about the PMI is that they required a degree in order to be able to sit any of their exams; risk and planning as well as the project management certification.
I am old enough and grey enough to come from a time when many people entered the industry through other routes, in my case as a planner and cost engineer and come from a time when realtively few people in the UK went to university.
This obsession with purely acedemic qualifications ends up damaging the industry. I would far prefer to screen potential PM's through their experience.
Ron Woodford
The answer to your question is yes, but not for the reasons you indicate in your post. The idea of creating a credential to separate professionals that follow a standard methodology from those that do not certainly has merit. The issue of the level of proficiency as determined by the test score is another matter. In respect to the low score required to pass the exam, it appears that PMI adjusts the score to regulate the number of people passing the exam for reasons that have nothing to do with the individual project manager. It would seem that PMI benefits from having a certain number of PMP's. It would follow then that certification is a matter of quality for the individual and a matter of quantity for the organization. In any event many companies are using internal testing to ensure that PMP's can meet performance goals. Those of us that passed the exam before the passing score was lowered, and when applications were audited and verified, clearly stand out from the crowd. Keeping pace with technological, cultural, and organizational change is essential to ensuring success in any profession. This is especially true in project management.
A question I am sure that has been discussed on many forums with multiple views on the subject.
The questions is; is knowledge certification enough to deliver projects successfully; the motivation of people going for the certifications, is it improving their market value or improving project performance; institution and or organization promoting this vis a vis value it generates for them.
I guess we have a situation of "silencing conflicts" here
I have also written on this subject based on my observations around the region where I work and leave (India). You may find similar under tones and views
Sujoy Dutta, PMP
Hi Guys,
I have myself worked in the IT industry for 19 years and managed projects myself since the last 9. I am putting forth my views.
I was myself NOT PMP certified until 4 months back. I did my classes and obtained the mandatory 35 PDUs 2 years back but couldn't take the test due to project commitments but that didn't mean I went around and wrote articles justifying non-certification and imagining some HR manager would read my article and get impressed. Rather I kept looking for a time when I would have enough time to dedicate to my studies and achieve the certification.
Let me also tell you that I was NO BAD Project Manager when I was NOT certified rather the certification put me through a grind and made me better, just like a polished diamond. We work with a lot of knowledge gaps while working and we remain absolutely unaware and continue to work the same fashion without getting any worse or even better.
PMP certification came into existence many years ago when a bunch of Project Management experienced guys put their heads together and compiled the best practices in a BODY OF KNOWLEDGE popularly known as PMBOK. Currently we are into PMBOK version 4.
The certification makes the HR guys' job easier to recommend me for next level of selection but would take more time talking and interviewing a non-certified candidate to discover if he is better. I would also recommend to an HR guy reading this article that they should NOT ignore non-certified candidates, the discovery of their PM skills might take a little bit more of their efforts.
In a supermarket we look for certified products don't we ? When we call the Job Market a "market" then aren't we all like products ?
Gali Valiente
PMP certification worth it? Yes.
Does it make you a good PM? No. It only tells that you have some degree of understanding of the tools and methods to manage a project. Treat it just like a learned skill or tool, it is not a license. Whether you put it to good use is entirely up to you.
Does it make you a qualified PM? That depends on the hiring entity but it should not be used as a sole basis for hiring decision.
The knowledge you gain for the time studying for it and the few dollars you pay for it is definitely worth it.
PMP Certification is definitely worth it because you learn from it and not because your net worth may increase (that is a different story).
Kathy Layman
Having been unemployed for the past nine months with not having PMP certification at the start of the unemployment but achieving it by the end of the fourth month, it has made a difference in getting interview opportunities based on comments received during the post-PMP interviews.
Like it or not, at least in today's job market where there are vastly more candidates than positions, PMP certification is one way to reduce the stack to get to a manageable list of candidates for interviewing. Admittedly, no project manager would think it is the best way but the initial review of resumes is not usually done by the person hiring the project manager but rather done by someone that is looking for ways to reduce the resume stack.
In a different job market, I am not sure that I would have study\ied and achieved the certification as it hasn't mattered in the past in looking for jobs. Demonstrated equivalent experience and skills was sufficient to landing the next job in addition to networking.
This job market is once in a lifetime and having PMP certification is just one way to tip the scale in getting the interview opportunity.
Bukola- Thanks for commenting - very good insight. Thanks again for sharing.
I read the article and it appears to me that you're missing the whole point about certification.
"The most frustrating thing about the PMP certification to me is the weight that employers place on this designation when looking for Project Managers. I hear this again and again from PMs looking for work. To these organizations, it's an easy screening mechanism for their HR personnel. Unfortunately, that will screen out PMs with many years of very busy and successful management of projects who worked for organizations that placed no emphasis on PMP cert and therefore didn't pay for PMI and the tests or PMs who just didn't have the time it takes to document the info and sit for the test. That is wrong."
You correctly identify that HR departments grab anything they can to cut that ever-growing stack of resumes; but you miss out on the fact that they do this with many other key words as well.
Perhaps your article should be focused more at "How can I get hired" versus "I'm mad because I don't have a PMP certificate.
Rebecca- Thanks for weighing in on this topic. The degree is likely going to be an issue with a PM position for a hiring company. However, starting in a project coordinator position or project adminstrator position should get a person to a PM role after some experience. I agree that the certification should not be a determiner over experience in a hiring decision, but unfortunately it is often used as an upfront weed-out mechanism.
setnaffa- You're a little off in your perception. I'm not mad. I control whether or not I get certified as a PMP. I was headed down that path and workwise things happened that redirected my attention at that time and I've not gone back to that focus.
Here I am trying to get people's perception..and as evidenced by yours and 80+ other comments it has done it's job. I just think that it's unfortunate to job-seekers out there that it is used as a weed-out tool by HR and hiring managers. As I've stated many times, most of the good PMs I've worked with and correspond with are not certified. But at the moment, there are many companies out there that won't look at you without the PMP..if they even have real jobs to go with postings that applicants are replying to.
Stan Dvoskin
OK, folks, reality check...
Is it fair that low level HR people screen resumes and throw out a high percentage on arbitrary criteria such as the PMP (which, by the way, is not a couple of days work to prepare for, and as one person mentioned the longer you've been a PM, the harder it is to pass the PMP because they use their own terminology that you're not likely to be familiar with and you have to learn to speak 'their language'... you also have to learn that they want the 'best' answer, not necessarily the 'right' answer, but as someone said, that's another thread). No, it's not fair... but it wasn't fair that my job was sent to India. It's not fair that 1% of the population controls 50% of the wealth of this country. It's not fair that executives who drive companies into the ground get billions while the government bails out their companies. I could go on, but I'd probably start to sound bitter ...
Seriously, life isn't fair, get over it and figure out what rules the powers that be (those doing the hiring) are playing the game by and do what you need to in order to beat them at their own game.
Complaining about what's fair and what's not may be emotionally rewarding to some, but it is not going to get you a job... and that should be the goal, no?
I wanted to add one additional in response to many comments about the cost of the PMP. If you choose to take a several thousand dollar course or prep class that is fine, but the PMP test does not have to cost that much. The materials I used for the exam cost about $120.00. The educational requirements were paid for by my company in the form of college courses, but they can easily be gotten fairly cheaply if its out of your own pocket.
Dont get caught up in the notion that you must take a prep course or crash course to pass the PMP. While they exist, they dont make up for good old fashioned learning in my opinion. Some people I know took a 4 day boot camp and I definitely remember more information than they seem too. This is because I really learned while they mostly memorized or just learned enough to get by.
I have a Master's degree and I am working on a PhD. I have taught PM courses at the college level. I am a Sr. IT Project Consultant for a Fortune 25 company with over 10 years direct PM experience. But today I was told that I could not teach a PMP prep course because I did not have a PMP certification. Instead, this well-known academic institution will hire the first PMP they can find. Probably someone who scored a 61% on the exam... which would be considered a failing grade in an academic environment. What a joke. The whole PMI and IIBA efforts are 100% dedicated to making money. Bottom line.
You're not qualified to teach the PMP Prep class because what they are teaching is how to pass the PMP, not Project Management. Certainly you're qualified to teach Project Management, but that isn't what a PMP Prep class teaches.
And you presume they will hire the first PMP they find, while in fact they may hire the most qualified PMP they can find, perhaps one who's got teaching on is resume, not just doing.
And yes, you're right, it is about money... isn't everything these days?
I'm glad people have this place to vent, but please realize that it is all you're doing, you're not going to change anything at all. But venting is good for the blood pressure, so it's productive... up to a point {smile}.
This post seems to be more of a debate about experience over certifications (What should organizations choose ? )
To all those who have 18 years and upwards to experience in project management why dont you just go ahead and get a PMP certification, so you guys would be way ahead of the rest when hiring decisions are made.
Secondly the PMI is good medium to anyone who is trying to get into project management, certifications such as CAPM, at least help people who want to get into the field.
With no experience or certification what would be the criteria to become a PM, other than by stumbling upon a project by being at the right place at the right time. Or what advice do the so called 18/20/23 year experienced PM's have to new people who want to break into project management, what would be the best way to do it.
Would you trust an experienced doctor who has not gone to medical school?
Tony -
You raise good points, but your comparison is way off. First, there's no comparison to attending to one's medical needs and leading a team of resources. They skill set is completely different and it's illegal to practice as a physician if you're not an MD. That's not the case with a PM. Also, not sure what you mean by 'so called' 18/20/23 years of experience. Experience isn't 'so called'...it's real. I've worked hard for every 24 yrs of IT experience I've had and I've worked hard leading teams and customers on projects for 18 of those years.
I agree that we all should probably just get the certification. There's really no debate about that. It's unfortunate that HR depts and hiring managers are resorting to lazy hiring practices these days by requiring that certification to even view the resume. But it's a game like job hunting always is and you have to play the game if you want to win. We all know that.
I'm reminded of a great line...
Some people get 10 years of experience, and others get one years experience ten times over...
Also, realize that you need a certain amount of working PM experience (how much depends on several variables) before you're even eligible to sit for the exam, so experience isn't ignored by the PMP...
{talk to lawyers about the Bar Exam...}
Toby Elwin
Brad, this is an excellent post and rich comments surrounding quality of experience versus proof of technical skills?
A lawyer or an accountant is valued when they prove mastery of a rigorous, repeatable understanding of compliance. Those two professions are valued greatly because they mitigate risk.
Can a lawyer claim competence without a Bar certification? Can an accountant claim competence without a CPA? Sure, but both a Bar or CPA provide the evaluator some level of assurance. As a hiring manager I must remove risk.
Verifiable accomplishment: a high school degree/college degree/master's degree/certification convey ability to:
>set goals,
>commitment to a goal,
>achieve a goal, and
>the ability to accomplish a goal
The above provide very important attributes to me when evaluate a candidate: has this person repeatedly delivered in a goal-oriented environments.
We all prefer a consistent employee or teammate. Technical skill does not equal innovation or ingenuity. A high school degree is not proof of technical skill. But, I, as a hiring manager, cannot hope to capture lightning in a bottle by hiring someone who may be brilliant, but never graduated high school. I am judged on how I assess and mitigate risk, not by adding, uncontrolled risk. I am accountable to add talent to a team, brilliance is not as important as consistent contribution to a team. Someone who has shown ability to perform consistently always trumps the hope to capture lightening in a bottle.
Many people, including yourself, look down upon the 60% pass/fail threshold for PMP certification. Seems many in this post believe that the PMI interprets 60% as a letter grade A, B, C, D, or F. This is a pass/fail not a letter grade. To hear 60% as a sticking point from people who have not passed the test seems a case of sour grapes.
PMI continues to modify and improve their quality criteria, it is in their best interest, as the world's largest professional association.
To be eligible to sit for the PMP exam you must have a minimum amount of professional hours available to audit, this is one level PMI's quality control. Once you pass you must maintain 60 hours of continued training, another level of quality control.
Just like filing taxes, people can embellish or cheat; however, no reputable CPA would have signed off on your tax forms if their adherence to process found discrepancy.
If a loved one needed life-saving CPR and a 2 people stepped forward, a certified CPR and someone who says they know CPR, I would rely on the certified CPR.
The Misconception of PMP Certification |
[...] have been great comments and discussions on the article I wrote entitled "Project Management: Is PMP Certification Worth It?" In fact, there have been nearly 100 comments posted on this article – by far the most of any [...]
Good article. I want to add my two cents worth: two cents because that is all its probably worth. I invested a great deal of time to achieve my PMP certification only to be quickly overwhelmed with the ongoing maintenance work. I eventually had to weigh what the benefits were against the cost of money and time. When in Wash. D.C., my PMP certification was recognized primarily amoung IT groups and a small handful of Beltway bandit Gov contracting companies like Booz or CSC. Even though they desire employees with PMPs, they rarely cough up PMP expense reimbursement and prefer to pay for graduate school courses.Outside of the Wash. D.C. IT environment, experience counts 1000 times more. Perhaps, as the PMP becomes more recognized, it will offer a greater return. PMP, like a college degree, indicates the holder has the basics. Experience is the true measure. The two together have value in a small handfull of industries and geographical job markets: like IT in D.C. Otherwise, I have found it has not been worth the money and time investment in my case. Does anyone have an opening for an ex-PMP experienced Senior Emergency and Continuity Management expert? Thanks.
When I delivered extremely successful process improvement projects they asked me where I got my Black Belt in LSS from; sorry mate I don't have that cert!
Delivering numerous successful IT infrastructure, application development and software development projects was not enough for some (most!?) people until they see a cert on your resume. I have read PMBOK like i read other management books but never went for the certification.
Most interesting was this one interview where the interviewer couldn't see past his requirement of a black belt certification, a Bachelor's degree with Honours in Statistics and a Post Graduate degree in Statistics was not sufficient where you learn and practise six sigma for 5 years I think thats more than what you can learn in a 14 day black belt workshop!!!
Jim O'Hare
I have been managing projects for 25 years. I actually started my career designing project management software. I have close to 50 implementations under my belt, and like others have read PMBOK and belong to the PMI. I just do not have the time to spend getting pieces of paper that tell me what I already know. That I have learned from so many different projects and the uniquness that each brings to the table. PMP is not the gaurantee to success.
Pennie Johnson
What tools advise can you offer to help me better plan, document, projects I'm working or have worked previously? Also, any ideas on how planning a charity event can be used as a PMP example?
Pennie Johnson.
When choosing a project management tool, it is essential that you exactly know your requirements and to search for a tool that meets those requirements.
Here at Seavus (the sponsor of PMTips.net) we have highly trained professionals that can make an analysis of your requirements such as project team size, location and other factors that are crucial to your work and provide you with the best solution for your needs.
At this moment our best selling project planning tool is Seavus Project Planner. You can download it here: http://www.seavusprojectplanner.com/FreeTrial.aspx and if you need additional information you can contact me at email@example.com.
Looking forward to your feedback!
February Survey: PMP Certification | Pro
[...] in July 2009 I did an article entitled "Is PMP Certification Worth It?" and then a follow-up article a couple of days later entitled "Is PMP Certification Worth It? [...]
Merril Christie
Oh my God! Finally an article that tells it exactly like it is. I have just spent 6 months doing a Masters Certificate in Project Management Course at Schulich, York University which was such a crock. It was a good course but certainly not a 'Masters' course. This whole PMI/PMP thing is a crock. I have been in the industry following PMI methodology for over 11 years and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it but this ka-ching organisation called PMI and this focus on having a PMP certification is such BS. I, unfortunately, have bought into it despite knowing that all the swotting to get 61% will not make me a better PM. However, there is some pressure in my organisation to be a PMP and I have decided to give it a go. I can't wait for the next 5 weeks to do my exam and hopefully pass. I am studying like mad because sadly, my 11 years of practical experience will not help me pass this stupid exam which is intent on tripping you up. Even getting the qualifying hours is a nightmare. What a crock. Thank you for a sane voice in this madness of PMI/PMP.
I am PMP certified and re-certifying again to keep it. Why? Peer equity in a PMO organization where 24% were PMP certified and the rest of us just great PMs. With layoffs around, you don't and hope that is not a deciding factor but I did not what to take that chance. I agree, you don't have to be a PMP to be a good project manager. I felt I was as good if not better than some peers because of my experience, not the certification, for sure. Executives and managers should recognize that. PMP should (and is) getting the same weight as a degree. It means you had the discipline and the wearwithall to get the certification, just like a degree. You can take all the courses for an MBA and if you don't graduate-so what, you don't have it. For me I take it as the baseline of the discipline and then shape it, use it, to fit the work needs. It gives the guides of how to get it done in a formal manner. I like the green, yellow, black belt scenario-- like Six Sigma and that is admirable in that disciplie as well as it is not easy to achieve. That should be submitted to PMI as a next step in the certificaiton levels. Anyway - I am proud of the certifiation, it was not easy, it took a lot of personal time to do it and keep it. Doing the recertification is not so bad - it's staying in tune with the field and industry (for me) and keeping me in touch like this website has of all the great things that PM is and does. My two cents- rock on and be great - with or without, good PMs continue to be a much needed force in the work place.
I have to agree with Kim, Mak (good on ya mate!), Jim O'Hare et al. I have been a project manager for more than 25 years and have delivered all types of IT projects ranging from $250K to $25 million. I am not PMP certified but I am a member of PMI, just so I can keep an eye on the destruction being caused. Some of the PMP certified project managers I have met during my career couldn't find their collective ass without a satellite. Programmers have been encouraged to get their PMP by some consulting companies, just so they could state that in their Proposals to justify the individual's rate!
The worst offender in this farce is PMI itself. PMBoK is NOT a methodology. It is merely a Framework of Reference. 9 Knowledge Areas have been created in the framework and the definition of each of those areas and the underlying processes are nowhere near industry standard. If this is PMI's attempt to take over and run the PM industry, they have a think coming! The secret to passing the PMP exam is to memorize PMI's definitions of Project Management concepts and the nine areas. Individuals with good memories, especially from Eastern countries where memorization and regurgitation is revered, will pass with flying colors but they will not have a clue as to how to apply the knowledge. Guys like us who do not need some institution to tell us how good we are on a piece of paper, will be left to straighten out the chaos and bloodshed created by the PMP certified.
Like every other certification or degree course, its about increased marketability in the end. It looks good on a resume and persons without direct industry experience will often make hiring decisions based on it, just as they do with BSc.s and MBAs. Get over it. It is what it is. If you're afraid of being overlooked by these hiring managers, go get the certification and stop whining.
I have let my PMP lapse, due to the cost and time needed to keep it up. I have worked at jobs that do not pay anything toward the certification, and constantly work on projects where I cannot take the time for the upkeep. I think PMI is wrong in letting PMP certificates lapsing, it becomes a big money maker for them. And, I personally think those who can contribute so many hours and do CEU's every year are not working on important projects. I beleive that you can upgrade but never loose your certificate you earned it, do I have to pay to keep my bachelors degree every year?
PMP, no excuses!
I disagree. You can say how good of a project manager you are all you want, but having the PMP designation means that someone other than yourself is willing to attest that you have an understanding of project management best practices. Because you do not have such a designation we would have to take your word as to how good you are at Project Management. By the way, having X amount of years does not necessarily make you great. How do we know you had 23 years of experience or the same year of experience 23 times over?
The reasoning that HR is just being lazy as to the reason PMP certified PMs earn more makes no sense.
Of course a certification or degree is no guarentee of other qualities such as integrity or people skills. That is true of the MD, JD or CPA. Doctors and lawyers get sued for malpractice. Someone with a CPA may also lack people skills. The argument that you make that CPAs do not need people skills that PMs do does not make any sense. A CPA has to interface with others to build and maintain business if the CPA is in business for himself or herself. The argument that just because someone has a certification or degree does not really mean much here.
The argument that you make of the PMI profiting off the PMP exam does not make sense here either. Many programs profit off the CPA exam, the MCAT and the LSAT. That does not diminish the value of those exams to their respective professions.
I am sorry you did not put forth the effort to become PMP certified so now you have to explain to everyone why not having a PMP does not matter.
Having the PMP designation means not having to make excuses. 'Nuff said!
Thanks for reading and for your comments. As for the CPA - no one cares if he has a CPA if he's in business for himself. Same with the PM. That's not the comparison to make. I am merely stating that it is lazy for HR reps to rely solely on PMP designation as an initial weed out for positions. I'm not crying over it, but I am hearing from a lot of frustrated project managers out there who can't get interviews. Although I will say that it appears that as of late those lazy HR practices may have eased a bit. My latest scan of PM postings either skip the PMP discussion altogether or say that it is a plus, not a requirement.
23 years of experience does speak for something. IMO, it speaks for more than the minimal requirements of experience for the PMP and the low percentage of correct answers on an exam. And that only says that they read and comprehended the PMBOK.
I completely disagree with you. But we're all entitled to our opinions which is why we've had such a good discussion on this topic. Thanks again.
I meant to say above that no one cares if an account has a CPA if he's in business for himself. He has to make the determination if it will help his career. But if he's applying for specific positions, many of those will require CPA designation. It is not, however, the same as PMI designation nor does PMI designation signify nearly the comprehension and dedication to your profession that acquiring the CPA does. That is not a comparison that you can really make or that makes any sense.
The main point I made, which you never addressed, is that having a designation such as PMP means some entity other than yourself will attest to your effectiveness as a project manager. The PMI has been around since 1969 and the PMP status is sought after around the globe. So this is not some fly by night certification Microsoft came up with to make money. By the way, compared to the fees Microsoft requires for their exams which retire on a frequent basis, the PMP exam is actually priced quite fairly.
The PMP exam is part of making project management a profession. CPAs, lawyers and nurses all pass exams after graduation before they are allowed to practice. Why shouldn't project managers have to do the same?
By the way, your comment that passing the PMP exam only says they read and comprehend the PMBOK shows that you do not understand the scope of the PMP exam. Merely reading the PMBOK guide is not enough to pass, which is why experience is also a requirement. However, experience is not enough either because many people who call themselves project managers do not really perform all of the duties of a project manager.
As for laziness where HR is concerned, HR professionals are not really in a position to judge experience as well as the hiring manager. So HR uses certifications such as the PMP as a screening device. HR does this for IT positions as well.
An accountant will be limited if he goes into business for himself and yes, clients will care whether the accountant has passed the CPA exam. I also believe many hiring managers and clients care whether the project managers have passed the PMP exam, so that is a comparison that makes sense-maybe not to you though....
I'm not going to discount your 23 years of experience. I have no idea if you are a good project manager or not and that is exactly the point. Nobody else out there really knows if you are a good project manager. The question is whether you have knowledge of best practices in project management. There are all sorts of people who call themselves project managers and do not even know how to draft a charter or ellicit requirements. Passing the PMP exam is certainly not impossible and passing the PMP exam may not even be the hardest exam in the world to pass. But passing is certainly not easy or everyone would be doing it.
By the way, having PMP status is no guarantee of a bad project manager either as you imply. You remind me of a friend who was going to be a CPA back in 2004. Here it is, six years later and he does not even have the required education to sit for the CPA exam.
Before you could not shut this guy up as to the status of a CPA. Now all he can do is disparage being a CPA as slavery to partners for years and spending a lot of time and money passing a useless test. This is the same guy who used to say that passing the CPA exam means not having to make excuses.
If you ever do go through the process and pass the PMP exam I am almost certain you will agree that preparing for the PMP exam was more than passing a test. Preparing makes you a better project manager.
You are going to have a problem if ever the PMP exam becomes a requirement to practice as a Project Manager. Doctors, lawyers, CPAs and nurses all have to pass an exam to practice and I don't see any of them complaining.
It's late and I'll read the rest of your comment later and probably reply again, but I stopped dead in my tracks with your first sentence... "The main point I made, which you never addressed, is that having a designation such as PMP means some entity other than yourself will attest to your effectiveness as a project manager."
That is completely wrong. No other entity is confirming your effectiveness as a project manager. All PMP designation means is that you have a couple of years of experience and scored a 61% on the exam. That's it. There's no attesting to your effectiveness as a PM.
Again, I'll read the rest later and probably comment again and I appreciate your participation in the comments. I love a good debate. But that first sentence lost me....
Doctors, lawyers, CPAs and nurses have to have that certification because there are legal issues to them practicing without them. That will not be the case for project managers...ever.
I have never maintained that PMP certification is an indication of a bad project manager. I only maintain that it does not guarantee you are a good or even competent project manager. Project management is even more about communication and leadership than it is about best practices - though no one will argue that best practices aren't important...they definitely are.
As for ease to pass the exam.... sometimes it's about cost. I was working for an organization who was going to bump my salary by $10k for passing the exam - and they were going to pay for all of it. Was I going to go for it? Heck yes. But the company folded before I could sit for it and I've been too busy since to take the time and independently spend the money to sit for the exam.
And yes, clients will care if an accountant has a CPA, but that's between an independent accountant and his clients. If he's trying to get a W2 position with a company, then it's much more likely that they will care.
I've never had a client care if I was PMP certified or not as an independent consultant. It's only hiring organizations that sometimes care. And it will never be a legal requirement as it is with the fields you mention at the end of your comment.
Yes, you can have a person who has the designation of PMP and that same person could still be a poor leader or communicator despite experience and a knowledge of best practices. You also find doctors who cut off the wrong leg or who fall asleep during surgery and leave instruments inside the patient's body. You find lawyers who are dolts and CPAs who cannot apply what they know in the real world.
It is not a flaw of the CPA exam when a CPA lacks common sense or has no ethics. The AMA is not to blame for a surgeon who cuts off the wrong leg, nor is the medical school that particular surgeon attended at fault. If a particular PMP out there is a lousy project manager then that individual, or group of individuals does not invalidate the PMP certification. The Project Management Institute has been around since 1969 and is in all but four countries. The PMP designation is not valuable only in the US but in most of the world and that would not have occured if industry did not see the value of certification.
I don't expect that the PMI is going away any time in the near future. Consider that with problem of someone faking experience and credentials on their resume, clients need some objective criteria to go with. There are other certifications out there such as Project+ and ITIL certification but the PMP is the king of the hill. Please see http://jobsearchtech.about.com/od/educationfortechcareers/tp/HighestCerts.htm.
You cannot say the PMP will never be a requirement for project managers. Various IT certifications are now required by the end of the summer for a job I am at right now or those people who do not certify will lose their jobs. At one time, experience was sufficient for these IT security jobs but not anymore. The CPA was not always a requirement either. The government stands to lose millions of taxpayer dollars for failed projects. Money is not all that is at stake. Consider the impact of a failed shuttle launch.
You comment in your last paragraph of your initial post above where
"I sometimes wish I had my PMP cert. But what is bad is that employers are quickly screening out experienced individuals up front for much less experienced PMP certified project managers."
So you have to admit that regardless of how you or I may feel about the matter, those who are doing the hiring do care about about the PMP. I really don't think it is a matter of laziness either. With all the people out there fabricating aspects of their applications, how can HR really know out of the multitude of applicants who is going to get the job done?
By the way, I found a link to a study that found that "According to Foote Partners LLC, an IT workforce research company, projects managed by people who are not PMP certified project managers have only 25% success rate in contrast to 75% success rate of projects handled by PMP certified managers. " Like it or not, the PMP designation does have value. You may not accept that and that is fine. As long as you are getting work, as far as you are concerned, who cares about the PMP? But you must be noticing that those with PMP designation are getting ahead of you for jobs or you would not mention it in your initial post.
The fact is that even experienced project managers are not doing what they should on projects and may not even be familiar with best practices in a particular knowledge area such as procurement or risk management. Studying for the PMP exam is not just studying for a test. The process will make you a better project manager by expanding your knowledge of project management.
Bob Kois PMP
Brad, .....ever is here. The US Government and the State of Colorado now require PMP certification for large projects funded by them. The bills past a few years ago and went into affect Jan. 1 2009. Washington is preparing to do their audits, so get ready.
I agree, the two best PMs I have ever worked with were not certified. But... employers agree that it makes a world of difference and so IBM, HP and many others like Google, Apple and others now require the certification to become employed.
Our foreign competition agree too and they are adding PMPs at a much faster rate than most places in the US. (ie.. China & India)
Never say never. Now is the time, get your PMP.
Project Manager Wannabe...
Now for a different view-point...
I did a lot of work in previous jobs as a project leader. Though I was not recognized as a project manager, I gained the experience required to get my PMP. I took the classes through a local college, and later took the exam and passed. Great, now I'm a PMP.
Economic situations led to me losing my job. But, I was equipped with my PMP... I should surely get a job!
I got a lot of interviews from some very prestigious places. It became very clear about 5 minutes into each interview that they never read my resume - I got the interview because I had PMP after my name. If they had read my resume, they would have seen that I'm looking to get more experience in that role, and get into managing larger projects (as opposed to in-house ones). The companies assumed that PMP meant I had lots of experience. Once it was realized that I am very junior still at project management, the interviews were politely ended.
So yes, PMP does set you apart from the rest. It does show that you are committed to the field (not saying without it that you are not, but then PMP is "proof" of it). However, it does not mean you are the greatest project manager available.
In the end, I think my PMP certification hindered my job search. Now I am at a very small company (14 people) in which my project management skill will likely never be fully utilized. I am the manager of the IT group, and most projects involve a maximum of 2 people, and a maximum duration of 4 weeks. I am wondering if it is worth my time and money to keep up my PMP, even though I've had it for only one year.
I agree that simply having a PMP designation does not make you "the greatest project manager available." Having the PMP designation definitely made a difference for me and for many others. If earning the PMP certification was a hinderance to your job search, then I am sorry to hear that.
There are always going to be individuals who fail despite having reached a particular goal such as PMP certification or a college degree. There are also examples of people who have succeeded in life without any certificates or degrees. In general, however the odds for most people are enhanced with more education and certificatations than without these achievements. There are star atheletes and rock stars who will make more in one game or with a single song than I will ever make in my lifetime. In my particular situation going to college and passing exams was instrumental to getting me to where I wanted to be. So with the PMP certification or not, if you can find a way to find what you consider success then my hat is off to you.
Hello All,
Reading all these comments made me ask you all one question.
Who would be kind enough to guide me out of a confusing question.
I have been in the Logistics/SCM career past 22 years and I want to pursue PM as my future career come out of Logistics/SCM world as fed up with it.
Can one of you or all of you tell me is it worth it or not or should I go ahead with SS.
My other thought was PMAC.
Thank you guyz.....
Speaking as a PMP (and Prince2) certified PM I can see the case for the argument provided, but I think it only sees a limited aspect of this ongoing question - does it make me a better PM? Has either of these certifications made me a better PM? I think the answer, for me, is yes. They haven't changed me as a person and a large part of successful project management is good communications, but they do provide an independent structure for the management phases of a project, not all phases may be relevent to your project but that's where your experience and intelligence comes into play - pick whats relevent and file the rest; life's complicated enough.
What they do provide is proof of the attainment of a minimum level of subject matter knowledge and application, which in all honesty is all any certification can provide in reality. It won't guarantee you are a better PM than anyone else, or your projects will suddenly become less risky. But it will give you the confidence to hold your own in meetings and to work a delivery when all around are asking (telling?) you to skip / don't worry about / gloss over certain parts.
I would like to revise the question to - 'is the PMP certification a worthwhile choice for a career PM?' This alters the context of the question to what I feel it should be. If your decision is to be a career PM then I would argue that hand in hand with ongoing experience you should be looking to attain certifications, it will add weight to your argument that you are a 'lifer PM'.
The British Royal Air Force filters its applications for pilots by requesting a bachelors degree; it acknowledges that a university degree will in no way will help anyone become a pilot or learn to fly but it needs some form of filter to help manage the applications. They keep a 'backdoor' entry scheme open for naturals, those people who were born to fly.
Companies ask for certifications for two main reasons - filtering of applications and risk mitigation. If they can state they employed certified personnel then it allows them a degree of insurance should things go disastrously wrong; it's not a panacea but its something.
I guess if you are a career PM and are questioning the value of PM certifications you need to question whether you see yourself as one of the many ,or one of the naturals.
if two persons are applying to one position and they have the same experiance years. however, one of them are pmp certified. who would be selected?
when you are getting a pmp you should compare yourself to the same experiance.
MMM- You're missing my point. If two people have the same experience and INTERVIEW the same and it's a tough call, then I understand going with the PMP. And likewise, if there is a requirement on your project that calls for a PMP certification, I understand that as well. What I'm seeing as an ongoing frustration factor is organizations weeding out not at all on experience but on PMP certification. Meaning someone with 5 years of experience and PMP may get an interview while someone with 15 years of successful project management experience may get passed over because they don't have it. That's lazy HR work in my opinion.
Kindly send me your article named "quick guide" to setup a project plan quickly.
Thanks in Advance
I found this dialog interesting. I've had the PMP for nearly 5 years and I work for a global company.
To me the PMP is just window dressing for the most important aspect of PMI that has been missing from this conversation.
Managing complexity is more art than science, but if we have an agreed measure than we can communicate more effectively and collaborate effectively accross all cultures and languages..
This is what it is all about.
As for passing the exam, i found it fairly easy after using the crosswinds simulation cd. I still haven't read most of PMBOK, but knowing where to find the standards is all you need it for.
PMI is just a business, and a great one it is, I am not against or for PMP certifications. Like many have said, having the PMP certification proves nothing regarding your ability to manage a project. The sad thing is that there are people who can cram a book without really understanding anything in it and do good in tests, and there are others that are logic based and learning by association. I graduated as a Computer Engineer from Purdue University which I think is decent but, on the other hand, took the PMP exam and failed after running over 65 million dollars worth of technology projects to date. I run a PMO and don't put too much weight on it when hiring. Like I said in the begining, PMI is just another business machine just like all other certifications, and if I were to be involved in it, it would be on the inside, where the money is.
Last PMI conference I attended, the PMI representative was a pure marketing person, no PM knowledge at all. I don't condem this, I wish I had come up with this before them. In the mean time, you want to make an organization rich, join PMI and take their certifications, you want to be a great project manager, be around people with experience and good track record in your field and study from the great books out there.
Very thought provoking article. I am a Project Management Advisor and instructor for a PMP prep course (provided free for workers within my organization) so I think I have a unique vantage point on the issue.
I agree that there are many PMPs out there who (in the word's of a former boss of mine) couldn't manage their way out of a paper bag. It is safe to say that there are many non-PMPs out there masquerading as PMs and would have equal difficulty escaping the bag.
We all know PMs with loads of experience that do not have their certification but know the discipline inside and out. These folks may not know all the jargon and PMBokese but they can dance circles around many PMPs. Do they need a PMP to validate their capabilities? No, as long as they are comfortable in their current position and have a network that can vouch for them if they need to move to a new job. Will they be able to apply for every PM opportunity if they need to move. No, some companies won't talk to you unless you have a PMP. Is this fair? Probably not, but it is a reality.
Many employers (Public and Private sector) are now making the PMP a minimal requirement. They may use the requirement as a way to filter (once again I am not saying that this is the right way to do things) many resumes and applicants to a more manageable pool.
What does the certification say about a candidate? Assuming they did not fib on the test application they have actual experience in the field of PM (4500 hours with a BA and more hours without).
I agree that the 4500 hours may have been spent wrecking many projects but isn't it the perspective employer's job to vet the history and experience of the candidate? If your criteria for hiring a PM is based on their having a PMP and a cursory interview then your risk hiring a certified clown.
The second piece of information we get about the candidate with the PMP is that he or she did have the discipline and skill to study and pass they exam. I agree that there are some folks out their who could cram for almost any exam and do well. Once again, the perspective employer needs to put the candidate to the test during the interview process and determine the balance between book knowledge and real life application.
Everywhere I turn I hear the concept of branding being raised. Having a PMP becomes part of your brand. Do I think there is value in pursuing a PMP certification? I would say yes in most cases. Unless you have a PM job in a company that does not require the certification and you have a extremely high level of confidence that you will be with this firm for a long time (very rare these days) you should seriously consider getting the certification.
Thanks again for the excellent article.
Yan Robert
So many people who don't have the certification will try to diminish its importance or consider it in all kinds of negative ways.
In reality, continuous improvement through certification or formal education will most of the time demonstrate your willingness to improve or your taste for challenge. We will most often notice people who are committed, who want more or better, and act to get there.
The PMP certification is one of these methods you can use to show your edge. If you don't need it, good for you. It's a toolbox we're talking about. Mine has got a few tools, yours has a few as well. A situation may arise where the PMP certification will be required, as some companies want people who have a common language and to them, the certified have shown an extra stamina that they recognize, for good or bad reasons.
We can all choose to stick to our baseline, and focus on the day-to-day activities that compose our field experience. Some of us either have a taste for challenge or the desire to learn more, and think about why we do things.
PMP is useful for that, and for some of us. Why bash on it?
College Student
I am in my last year of college pursing a degree in PM. I am reading all the comments regarding all the years of experience and I don't even match up. I am currently working in the insurance industry managing benefits. I am sure I will not leave graduation and step off the stage at graduation and land a PM position. Is there any advice you could give to me as to what type of positions should be looking for as a starter in the game?
PCO (Project Control Officer) might be a great way to start off with. This PM supporting role allows you to deal with all involved parties, see the game and develop your contacts in the organization. Check for this position on various websites!
I used to be a PMP but I let it lapse because I got really busy with family, work, projects and ministry and didn't get the chance to prioritize keeping it for the simple reason I don't need to. In my search for PM jobs, most employers prefer to see it but do not require it. Only a few does. Experience and skills are the ones that will get you the job. To think that these days every penny counts, I feel it is not worth it especially when you have to take it out of your pocket.
Hello to everyone,
Let me share my idea for this discussion, the PMP will not just prove that you are competent and professional in project management! It just the criteria I think to give some basic idea to employer that you have some basics of the project management at least. So next is just employer's task to have the evaluation of your skills and capability further on interview or some other processes. So as well we can say with your university degree on hand also nobody can say you are professional on that field. So same way we can say the university degree is nothing? I think it will be wrong! I think any study process with the further certification or diploma is the way to give employers or others idea that you are specialized on that. And are you professional on that? This is the question. Any case I am supportive about the certification! It is better to have it on hand rather than on. But additional to that if you are professional that's excellent!
Darrell Kelso
That is a great article! I well know the feeling of the (PMP Certification Required) frustrations with getting past the first level of the HR departments without it.
I've noticed it more over the last couple years and am concerned.
Ive been in the same industry for 30 years and have @20 of it in project management, or a management role of some sort. I don't have a PMP, however, the value that I bring to the table is the experience.
It used to be that if you had 4 years in a field that it would count as 1 year of collage credit towards the position you were applying for; but, it doesn't seem that the new or younger recruiters or HR managers take any of that into consideration any more?
In my opinion there is No way a newly PMP certified youngster can compete with the real world hands on knowledge of a seasoned 20+ year professional. I've seen them try, and try, and fail miserable time after time.
I'm not saying the PMP isn't a good thing but people need to get their hands dirty somewhere along the way, learn diplomacy, and maybe a little humility to become not just a good manager, but a well respected PRO.
PMP , Preferable
Hi Everyone,
I was very pleased to read all the comments, I seriously read all of them. :)
I would like to share my view points on this discussion,
I have been working with the project Management for a long time and more than 4500 hours which is the eligibility criteria.
These days i am very excited to pursue the PMP certification , but to be frank its mostly because of the feedback that i have recieved from someone who is not into project Management :) , They just say " OH PMP is great " ...:)
As of now i am quite skeptical , as i believe that these certification courses are just meant for business , and those who disturb me frequently by calling me frequently add to my skepticism.
However we all know that at the end of the day , everyone is doing business, those who are rivals to a particular company will always propogate negativity about that company / business, so its only we who will decide what adds up to our confidence, knowledge and skills.
Make your choice , do PMP if that makes you a better prospect for someone , even if you dont really need it , but i would like to share with you an experience , which I had while pursuing ITIL certification ,
My Experience was and has been great , infact whatever I thought should be a way IT service should be implemented , thats very close to what i learnt in ITIL , and therefore it was very easy for me to clear the exams and I don't regret the certification , even though i had to shed some money .
Hopefully PMP helps individuals in just putting their knowledge in a systematic way , in a way that they always wished to deploy projects but were not able to or didn't have the documented systematic approach.
All the best for your choices , and remember , everyone does a business and everyone tries to sell their product or stop someone else's product being sold.
You are the best Judge but you can't commit all mistakes in one life so learning from other's experiences also helps. :)
I am not a PMP but i 'm a member of PMI. I was in the project management profession for last 5 years.
I was supposed to sit for the PMP exam, but i couldn't find time to sit and memorize. PMI should change there examination method get experienced persons to certified.
Last week i found AAPM is offering MPM (master project manger) certification, for those who has more than 3 years experience and foundation degree. There is no examination just send the CV, board will take a decision about your application.
visit www.aapm.org
PMI should take that root to certify people with experience.
Bart Breen
Agreed. You don't have to be PMP certified to be a good project manager. However, you do have to have minimum standards of training, knowledge and personal drive to achieve and then maintain said certification.
This is akin to the same agument that you don't have to have a college degree to be a good employee in other realms. Yes there are exceptions. However, on the whole, without knowing anything else about a person than that they are PMP then you at least know you're getting someone who in terms of the overall field of professionals out there, who is more likely than not, to be able to manage a project. and who is goal oriented and disciplined enough to accomplish the certification.
I dare say, if you looked at the success ration of new hires and success with employers on Project Management between PMP and non-PMP people then you'd have plenty of good anecdotal stories of good PMs with the certification, but taken as a whole, the PMP group would peform better overall. When you factor in the cost of employee turnover and the cost of failed projects (which let's be honest, only about half, if that many meet the objectives laid out for them), then there's good reason to seek to draw from the pool that is better trained and better willing to continue training and honing their skills than not.
That's reality. If a PMP is a nice to have or hobby that's one thing. If your a professional Project Manager and you're committed to your trade and want others to know that and grant you some upfront credit to where they'll take a chance on you, then yes, the PMP is worth it.
There are exceptions to every rule. That what they are: exceptions. The smart money is on the people who put the time and effort into their profession to be equipped and then maintain their professional edge.
Bart - Thanks for commenting. I still disagree. I became a project manager 6 or 7 years after PMP was first offered, but at the time almost no one had heard of it. It meant nothing in terms of hiring - no one knew to ask for it. I think the certification is a waste for most experienced PMs and it's very sad that hiring HR reps sometimes screen on it up front, though I'm not seeing it required right now nearly as much as it was a year or so ago. I think it's great for relatively new PMs who have minimal experience and want to get recognized when they have few other credentials or project successes to help boost their careers. It's also necessary for certain government contract requirements. I'm not saying it's a bad thing and it is a good way to show dedication to your profession ... no argument there. I will probably never agree - and this is my main stance on this - that lazy HR departments and hiring managers should use that as an up front requirement. It's like saying that PMP cert is THE most important thing in the process if you use it as a weed-out factor. Rather, it should be a criteria used later in the selection process if you're having trouble differentiating between two candidates and they are so close that you need something to help you choose. But if the HR rep or the hiring manager is either that lazy or that poor of an interviewer that they need a cert as a weed out factor at the beginning of the process, then that I think is sad.
Having recently retired from the US Navy, I'd never heard of PMP - until I started applying for program management positions. It appears, to me, that this certification was established to either help level the playing field writh respect to Vet's preference or with retired military officers. Although I've been a program manager all my 24 years, concluding with managing a $8.5 Billion program overseas, it doesn't appear to count for much without this cert. It's refreshing to know an office automation clerk who refurbished the break room and got a PMP has a higher standing with the HR morons.
Zeke- Thank you. I could not have said it better myself!
Stop Your Whining and Get the Cert
Zeke, an office automation clerk who refurbished the break room and got a PMP and supposedly has a higher standing with the HR morons doesn't meet the prerequisites for the certification. Don't minimize the value of the cert just because you haven't made the effort to become certified. That's not the PMP's problem; that's your problem.
Most PMPs I know aren't any different that people like yourself and others on this board: they have many years of PM experience. They also recognize the need for certification & standard guidelines and the fact that employers are asking about it with increasing frequency. For those reasons, they make the effort to get certified.
I've led many successful global IT projects without a certification. Quite frankly, I'm not sure to what extent being certified will help me in the future. I do know that the cert requirement is in demand, so I studied and obtained it.
I've added the designation after my name on my resume, and I've listed it under 'Certifications', hopeful that even the most brain-dead "Human Resources Business Partner' can see it, understand it and pass it along to someone else who presumably has a lot more on the ball than they do.
Very good article. I was aspiring for pmp, but was not sure whether to go for it or not. Reading all the comments posted, i would say that it is good to have the certification, as it would make you aware of all the best practices of Project Management, which you may not have got exposed to in your job tenure, and thus it will eventually help you in your future endeavours.
Interesting article. I agree you don't have to have your PMP to be a good PM but it can only make you better, and unfortunately just because you have the certification doesn't mean you are a good PM either because as with many things some people scrape through just to get the letters. But if you want to be the most qualified candidate, it is best to have the experience and the certification! And keeping up with the certification shows that you are keeping up with changes in the world of PM. And just one thing to point out that I find disagreeable is the point that you made about only needing to answer 61% of questions correctly, which I felt inferred that you don't need to know that much to pass the exam? While that number use to be higher, and I think it should be raised, may I point out that for a nurse to pass boards they only need 50-some% correct on their test? My point being, I don't think that percentage should be used to infer that someone who doesn't pass the exam is just as qualified to do the work as someone who passed...all because of the percent needed to pass. Would you want a nurse taking care of you that has experience but never studied for or passed boards? As with all professions, as project management grows and advances and more candidates pour in, I hope someday the certification is required for practice.
For me its simple. Apply what you learned from PMBOCK about about Risk Management Strategy when looking for a new PM job or contract. If you want to mitigate the risk of your job search taking longer and restricting your employment opportunities , get your PMP. I'd rather be included amongst the "PMP Required" or "PMP Preferred" pile of resume's during the qualification process then not.
Argue all you want about experience and PMBOK knowledge, they don't increase your chances of landing a job like having PMP next to your name.
In this tough economy, any edge that will help the Human Resources/Recruiter put your file into the "Consider" folder instead of "Trash" is a good thing. Will a PMP guarantee you a job? No, but it gives you a better chance of not being deleted. Life is certainly not fair. In the end, the hiring manager's golf buddy will get the job.
I think the person that started this thread doesn't understand what it means to have a PMP. If your point is that there are some PMP holders who are not as experienced as those with no PMP designations, then you are right - and of course vice versa. If you are sure of yourself as a project manager, go and take the exam and come back here to tell us how you did. PMI never claims that PMP is the know-it-all in project management. In fact, there are basic education, experience and formal PMP training required. And even after you pass the exam, you still need to continue to develop yourself through PDUs. If you are a good project manager, I am probably as good as you are. But with my PMP, that has given me an edge. Instead of you complaining about HR discrimination, I advise that you go and get your PMP. In this competitive job market, you need an edge.
I think competing for a job in the PM industry with years of experience but without a PMP is like going to a gun fight with master martial art skills but without a gun.
The reason why so many people are agreeing to this article is because it 'feels' right. I have many friends who have done PMP and I was encouraged by my employer and other friends to do PMP certification as well, however, I refused to typecast my management style and creativity by becoming a part of the herd called PMP certified managers.
On one hand, you can describe all the benefits of the PMP certification (they are all available on the web) but on the other hand, you can also choose NOT to be the part of the herd style work force.. ofcourse for that you need to have your individuality and courage.
I would not say that it is typecasting yourself, but, as mentioned above, getting an edge over the others. Also, PMP should not be acquired for the sake of getting just another certificate, but it should be acquired for gaining the knowledge of project management which could actually be put into work.
It shows to me that when the hiring agent needs PMBOK or Prince2 to pass my CV, this just says:
1. my engineering degree is not enough
2. my MBA is not enough
2. my engineering experience is not enough
4. my 10 years project management in engineering disciplines is not enough.
Granted, I will sit this exam. It can't be as hard as any other exam I have sat for. But it is a sad indictment that other more difficult exams and experience is not sufficient. Even past project management courses don't count. There is also an aspect of Ageism. I have undergone 8 years of part-time business and management studies (including project management) after my first university degree. At age 29, I said "enough" to further studies. Now in mid-forties I am expected to sit again for exams to prove my knowledge. At an age I should be concentrating on my childrens' education, I find yet another hurdle to prove what I can already do.
Refreshing, that one of the Agile founders said he will provide courses in Agile, but not certification, because he believes that certification can lead to mediocrity, as people hide behind their certificates. As this Agile founder said, an exam cannot show a person's skill on the job.
I can't be that smart, staying around in an area that requires more pieces of paper. If I am really clever I should retrain into an area that is "up and coming". Then it wouldn't be a chore to sit an exam as I would be learning something new.
PT - I like how you think. We are about the same age and I agree with every point you've made. There's no proof that certification makes you better. Ultimately, our customers judge us and if they are still coming to us for projects then I think we're doing ok. I'm not certified, yet I write for PMI. Seems like an indictment of the system, doesn't it?
In the paragraph below, replace "PMP certification" with "college degree" and you have the same tired argument from those who didn't invest the time, effort, and money in pursuing a degree. Second, the PMI benefits as does each and every college and university. It's the wonderful world that we live in.
Many of the follow-up comments to this article are from individuals, including the author, that have the good old entitlist mentality: "I have done this (in the past), so therefore I shouldn't have to do this". Get over yourselves. Resting on your laurels is so last decade. There's a new crop of young professionals who will gladly take your job, work for less, and have the PMP certification. What will you do about? Complaining won't help.
The PMP certification offers a competitive advantage for those who actually understand this. For those who wish to try and rationalize with the HR Recruiter that their vast experience surpasses some piece of paper, good luck with that.
This article will probably offend some. Remember, I'm not saying PMP certification is a bad thing at all. I sometimes wish I had my PMP cert. But what is bad is that employers are quickly screening out experienced individuals up front for much less experienced PMP certified project managers. It should be a 'nice-to-have.' It's a test, not real life and it should not be an in-or-out screening mechanism but I'm hearing repeatedly from PMs and organizations that it is. That's frustrating for our industry. And it's sad that it's become such big business.
Nathan- Thanks for commenting and I completely understand where you are coming from. It's not that I feel 'entitled'. I think that it's crazy that HR depts. are lazy enough to reduce their search to such an 'easy' weed-out level.
That said, I could see from your email server details that you work for an organization that I led a major project for in the past. I wasn't employed by your organization - rather I led the project on the vendor side. And when my counterpart at your organization found out that I was no longer with that organization, he canceled the project with my former company and used another organization to complete the implementation because he valued my expertise on the project (which had previously stalled and was in the process of resuming). So I know that personally and professionally, he and your organization were far more concerned with my experience and leadership skills than with certification when the project was on the line. Which is my point completely.
Brad – you've done an excellent job of creating very interesting and healthy dialog which I think is your original intent of this article.
I won't argue your point that HR Departments are lazy or that they may by pass over qualified individuals who do not have a PMP certification for those that do. What I will state is that this is what the market has established, more often than not, as a "barrier to entry" to getting in the door of a prospective company. After that, it's up to you to sell yourself to the hiring manager.
I hope you spend the time, effort, and money to get your PMP. You won't regret it. You will also prove what you already know: a PMP certification doesn't make you a better project manager. But it does mean that you completed something that you set out to do, much like a college degree. I think that's why many companies use it as a screening tool. From an HR perspective, it separates the "talkers" from "executers".
Good luck! I will look forward to your articles post-PMP certification.
HS Diploma: Does not guarantee a job or says that you are a talented worker
College degree: Does not guarantee a job, used as a screening tool
Master: Does not guarantee a job, maybe says too much education / expensive resource.
PMP: same as any above. Does not guarantee a job, used as a screening tool, there are probably better PMs out there with more experience.
If 61% is an easy pass, why dont you get the certification? I m MBA and I guarantee you the test was not easy to pass.
If the PMP certification draws attention to your resume, then it's worth the effort--period. After all, that's the reason most want to obtain it, isn't it? Just because you don't have one, and have many excuses in defense, doesn't mean that getting one is a bad idea
Good article.
I am working as a Project Manager and do not have any degree like MBA, MCA etc. Although I have good experience managing projects successfully for quite few yrs. nobody looks into my resume and try to find out my capabilities. An employee being an Art graduate who has worked for many different organizations and helped them grow does not hold any value. I think I should go for PMP cert. What you say?
It's nice of Brad to say "I'm not saying PMP certification is a bad thing at all" and not let it become anymore controversial than it is.
I manage few project managers and have come across some that were PMP certified. In my experience, the PMP certified managers (4 of them) consistently and significantly under-performed than their other colleagues (5 of them). I do not know whether it's something that the course does to you or it was a random case of bad instructor (all of them studied and prepared in the same city). But each one of them was significantly less effective in managing the project successfully.
Firstly, they had a very narrow view of their own role & responsibility in the project. They expected things to happen as planned. Whenever things didn't happen as planned, they were clueless about how to assist the team to get the project back on track. Constant push and pressure was the only tool they could use. The level of engagement they could achieve in understanding the problem at hand was abysmally low. They were neither interested in customer's requirements (role of BA) nor in the proposed design (role of architect).
The risk analysis and mitigation planning was also very bookish and superficial. They seemed more bothered about ensuring that a mitigation is implemented rather than ensuring that the right mitigation is implemented. For example, one of them identified 'system performance' as a critical risk (bravo!!!) and planned for performance concerns to be especially code reviewed (great!!!). But he forgot to notice that the person assigned to do these specialized code reviews is the junior-most person in the team with no prior experience or competency in such tasks.
In summary, based on my limited experience with PMP certified managers, I would prefer NOT to hire anyone who is PMP certified.
Like Brad, let me add my disclaimer. It may not have anything do to with the quality of certification. Maybe it's to do with the general profile of people who find such certifications worthwhile.
- Vikas
This is a pretty good article as well as a healthy dialog that is making rounds. Guys, it is just a matter of luck favoring some & not favoring others.
Hard work does count, but in the end its your destiny that goes with you till the end. Some PMPs don't know anything, some PMs don't need PMP. Some deserve to be architects, but are still developers; whereas some are not even fit for developers & are Technology Architects. Its all in teh way you sell yourself & maintain contacts.
It is a "Beautiful World", but sadly this is the way it works!!!
Kevinjohn Gallagher
I loved the article, but I think you're missing a particular viewpoint (though I see it slightly covered in the comments).
You're forgetting the process of being hired.
Even in its simplest form these days: You > Recruiter > HR > person short-listing > people hiring.
Yes, there is a good chance that the person short-listing will also be in the interview, but I can't remember the last time that the most senior person/stakeholder on a project did the short listing but there is a good chance that they'll be interviewing you.
I think it's also a tad unfair to suggest, even in a generalization, that HR folks are lazy. While some may be, and boy I've met a few, the real answer is usually that they are just not knowledgeable in the field. HR folks (be they external recruiters or internal HR) have rarely had on-hand experience to know what to look for on a CV – or more specifically how to weight certain attributes and experiences.
They are, for the most part, going from a brief that states what their client wants; and not their personal opinion how valuable 20 years experience is against 10 years + PMP. What they are doing is simply whittling down the number of candidates to a manageable number.
There is a strong chance an external recruiter will not be the sole recruiter on a project, and I know having worked with them (I was Project Manager on a Business Transformation project for a large recruiter last year) that they are told to send over no more than 5 CVs – presenting the client HR rep with the illusion that they have already separated the wheat from the chaff.
To do that, external recruiters followed by internal HR simply have to go on an iterative process to get themselves to the required number of candidates. They usually start with minimum year's experiences, then move on to degree, and then to PM certifications (Prince 2, ScrummMaster, PMI etc). At that stage, if they're not under the maximum number of CVs, it'll be down to who they think can get hired. Remember, that's their job. The job isn't to get YOU hired, it's to get someone hired. Notoriety of previous companies, quality & look of CV, keyword matching have FAR more impact on staying in the pile than years experience.
That's not down to lazy HR people, that is down to people doing their job as per THEIR job description.
None of us are happy about this process. But thanks to the internet (and the rough economy hasn't helped) the number of applicants per job has become quite crazy. Just last week I advertised for a PM and BA directly (I thought I'd cut out the middle man/men) and have received over 300 CVs, and still they're still coming in. If it reaches 400, and I hope to goodness it won't, I'm firing them all to a recruiter to narrow down to 5 people each. Might I miss a diamond in the rough? Probably. But will I still get to interview 5 good candidates? Probably.
And that's the real advantage of certification in today's market. You're showing the recruiter/hr/client that you know what is important to them. No CV or interview in the world will ever prove how good a PM you are, so to everyone out there, please stop blaming other people with certifications because you were overlooked for a job. If the certification and the knowledge learned while doing it is not of value to you, that's grand, but don't be upset at the value it adds to other people.
**apologies for the double post folks, the original had it's formatting removed to an unreadable state.
I loved the article, but I think you and some of the folks commenting are missing a particular viewpoint (though I see it slightly covered in the comments)... You're forgetting the process of being hired.
Even in its simplest form these days: You > Recruiter > HR > person short-listing > people hiring.
I think it's also a tad unfair to suggest, even in a generalization or joke, that HR folks are lazy. While some may be, and boy I've met a few, the real answer is usually that they are just not knowledgeable in the field. HR folks (be they external recruiters or internal HR) have rarely had on-hand experience to know what to look for on a CV – or more specifically how to weight certain attributes and experiences.
How many PMP's = MBA?
How many years experience = PMI?
How many Prince2's + years experience = PMP + ScrumMaster?
Recruiters are, for the most part, going from a brief that states what their client wants; and not their personal opinion how valuable 20 years experience is against 10 years + PMP. What they are doing is simply whittling down the number of candidates to a manageable number.
To do that, external recruiters, followed by internal HR, simply have to go on an iterative process to get themselves to the required number of candidates. They usually start with minimum year's experiences, then move on to degree, and then to PM certifications (Prince 2, ScrummMaster, PMI etc). At that stage, if they're not under the maximum number of CVs, it'll be down to who they think can get hired. Remember, that's their job. The job isn't to get you or me or Nathan hired, it's to get SOMEONE hired. Notoriety of previous companies, quality & look of CV, keyword matching have FAR more impact on staying in the pile than years experience.
None of us are happy about this process. But thanks to the internet (and the rough economy hasn't helped) the number of applicants per job has become quite crazy. Just last week I advertised for a PM and BA directly (I thought I'd cut out the middle man/men) and have received over 300 CVs, and still they're still coming in. If it reaches 400, and I hope to goodness it won't, I'm firing them all to a recruiter to narrow down to 5 people each. Might I miss a diamond in the rough? Probably. But will I still get to interview 5 good candidates? Probably. Will certifications be weighted higher by the recruiter than experience? Probably.
And that's the real advantage of certification in today's market. You're showing the recruiter/hr/client that you know what is important to them. No CV or interview in the world will ever prove how good a PM you are, so to everyone out there, please stop blaming other people with certifications because you were overlooked for a job - regardless of how bad a PM that person is in your opinion. If the certification and the knowledge learned while doing it is not of value to you, that's absolutely grand, but don't be upset at the value it adds to other people.
Be the best PM you can be, make sure your CV doesn't look like it was written in the 80s, use LinkedIn to get recommendations etc. There's far more to getting a role that just having done it before.
take care,
Which industries mostly ask for PMP certification?
I work in india as a senior software engineer . I wonder how PMP certification would help me land into project management in the US.
Jigar Pandya
I am preparing for PMP certification dedicated way, If I possess the necessary skills and aptitude how much chance is there to get a job in the management area after the certification. I hold around 6+ of industry experience total. kindly guide and provide your inputs.
I went years as a project manager without my PMP cert and did OK landing respectful jobs in the telecommunications industry. However, as the years went on (over a 10 year span), I've noticed more and more employers are putting this requirement up front on the job description and will not even do a phone interview if you don't have the cert. I have to agree with the other posters that say they are missing out on a lot of talented individuals with this screening process. Not fair to those with years of experience the the PM field but have yet to obtain the PMP cert.
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I got my current job a few months ago before I got my PMP certification. The job requirements said PMP or Prince2 certification required, but my employers were happy enough that I had met the requirements to sit the exam, which meant I had a certain amount of practical experience. My new job came with a good pay rise, and that in itself was worth the effort of working towards certification.
One thing I did find in the study group I attended was that project managers who didn't have work experience in larger projects and a variety of project roles struggled with some areas. The study group helped, but it wasn't enough by itself without experience.
I see advertisements for courses which guarantee to get people a pass in the PMP exam, and I wonder if it is the people from such courses who don't meet expectations even when they pass the PMP exam. I get the impression that some of these courses rely on rote learning and quick tips, rather than understanding project management. Although many of the PMP questions require a bit of thinking, others just require knowing the terminology.
Having certain certification put some confidence in HR's or Interviewers mind that this candidate know Project Management topics. Though how good he is only come to know after interviewing and asking real scenario questions.
This is same like college... that if you score more then X% then only you will get the admission. There are many company who have Project Manager but they actually dont know Project management topics and there knowledge is limited to manage people and get the work done from them on time. To Skip those manager it will be good idea to appoint or call candidate who has PMP certification. which will judge there theroy knowledge and then in interview you can judge there practical knowledge.
Hello. I've really enjoyed reading the comments of this blog. I am a young professional who is looking at getting into the field of Project Management. My degree is actually in Psychology, but for the past 4 years I have been the Director of a website that does media streaming. I have picked up IT knowledge along the way, but much of my job is working/managing the sales, IT, marketing teams to grow the site. I've done some research in Project Management and I'm very interested as it sounds a lot like what I currently do. My questions is- It seems like much of the backgrounds for PMs seem to be in the construction/architecture or IT/software fields. What other job fields do PMs holding PMP certifications hold? Are there jobs for PM in all sectors of business?
seshadeva barika
Dear All,
I have 5.5 Years of experience on IT Ind. But i dont have experience on the project management. Am i eligible to do this certificate? If yes, how can i do this?
I am seeking forward for your nice response with some tips and suggestion to do this.
Sour grapes?
61%... It depends on the difficulty level of the questions, doesn't it, and how well they are written.
As for comparing to other degress and certifications... PM is a skill set that is different than an engineering degree, etc. If I'm hiring you to be a PM,then I want some confirmation on your PM skills, not your engineering skills. Don't care otherwise, how smart you are.
CarolM - I understand you want some confirmation of PM skills, but PMP certification won't give it to you. If you think it will, then feel free to create a PMO and stock it with only PMP certified PMs. Rely on nothing else and see how far it gets you. I'm not saying PMP cert is bad. I would never say that - I actually think it's great. What is bad is when lazy HR or hiring managers rely on it solely as a weed out factor in a short-sighted hiring situation. That's really my only point. No sour grapes at all...
Tom Przybysz
Interesting discussion. I am upper-40's with a PMP. I'm not completely convinced a PMP certification made me a better project manager, but it certainly did not make me a worse one. I have managed PMO organizations in the past and I saw no correlation in performance and PMP credentials. Knowing that a PMP certification is a filter point with many HR organizations is enough reason for me to get the certification. That's a pretty big incentive especially if I am unemployed. One other thing I've learned and have accepted. I have proven myself time and again over the last 23 years in the telecom industry. And I have accepted that I will be required to continue to do so until the day I retire. I worry that the second I think I have proven myself enough and the world should cower to my superior skills, is the day I become obsolete.
I've worked with plenty of good and bad project managers. I would say the ones with the PMP tended to be better but certainly not in every case. I realize my sample size is small.
Like most certifications it is probably most valuable earlier in a career or like a few above comments suggested, to get past the overzealous HR people at big companies. That said, I think if someone wants to be a top PM it is probably worthwhile to get the PMP cert. You can always keep it to yourself!
I am a PhD in Molecular pathology and I am currently working as scientist in the academia. I have been thinking to move to pharma companies and apply for PM positions after completing a program for PMP at nyu. Do you think a PMP certificate would help in my case? I mean, I do not have any experience in PM yet and therefore I thought it could've been useful to get some background before applying for a job but i got a little confused now reading this blog...
Any advice, would be really appreciated!
Unfortunately, before you even sit for the exam you must be able to document 4500 hours of project management experience along with specific training courses. So you won't be able to acquire the certification first. My key frustration with the whole process is not at all directed at the certification itself. I think it's a good thing. However, I think it has allowed human resources and hiring managers to become very lazy in how they select candidates by using the certification as an early weed-out element, thus passing over very good and very experienced project management candidates for individuals with minimal experience who managed to pass a test. That's not how I would want to staff my PMO or staff my projects.
I have been implementing successful projects BEFORE I even knew what PMBOK was or that a certification existed for a practice that has been in use for thousands of years.
You are either a communicator / document manager / pitch person or you are not. I have hired people with and without the PM certification. Mine is from NYU and cost a lot of money. I took the courses years after I was in the throes of being a hands-on PM.
I have a college degree and lots of certifications after graduation. Theory versus practice. There is nothing like experience.
I am cert. in PMP. I won't say it's bad, nor it's good either. It really just depends on the industry you are in. Study the industry you want to work in, then determine whether a cert in this field will be beneficial or not. When I started, I thought well, I have a certification, it's a piece of cake to manage any project coming my way. Boy was I wrong. I had to constantly turn to my superiors for advice (whom did not have a cert in PMP). Soon after, I'd realized, the certification teaches everything to me in theory, and tries to put it in perspective. However experience in 'the specific' industry still trumps my piece of paper. Mind you, I did have experience, but was just the minimum requirement of PMP, and nothing to do with the job after. But, the big but, it never hurts to have that piece of paper to help me get that position. In terms of lazy HR's, well, that's never going to change! I hate to say it, but HR degrees are one of the easiest to obtain. When barrier to entry is low, well, what can we expect from the quality? I don't want to be stereotypical, but I've heard way too many stories, all beginning with HR.
The same goes with a lot of professional industries like PMs, Paralegals, etc. Mostly because industry leaders and "know-it-alls' like yourself dont want to take take the time anymore to train and mentor new staff. Businesses and departments frown on on-the-job training and expect people to hit the ground running on Day 1. So, young people like myself cant get in to these good positions like these WITHOUT a cert.
If you were a department head, would you hire green horns like me, WITHOUT a PMP...would you read past the first 3 lines on my resume where my education is...NO, and if you said yes...I wouldnt believe you.
Your article is nothing but a whining rant about how people like you are suffering, but it is people like you who caused this shift in qualification demands.
Whoa...CD...hold on. People like me? I'm not whining and I'm not suffering. I'm staying abreast of hiring practices both through canvassing ads and hearing colleague stories. I have 20 years of PM experience and when I was first starting out, no one knew anything about PM certification. I was a PM before I had even heard of PMI. I am merely addressing the 'lazy' hiring practices of hiring managers and HR reps who put the PMP cert requirement in job descriptions just to immediately weed out a ton of candidates. If they want to do that, they certainly can. But I make the point that by doing that they are likely weeding out the 'best' candidate for the job who is now buried somewhere in that reject pile.
Yes, if that candidate always wants the right consideration, they should get certified. But it's still a lazy hiring practice and I will not change my opinion about that. Weed it out on years of experience or some specific project related experience or technology need. But unless you're filling a role on a government contract that requires certification or you absolutely must have it for some reason, HR reps should stop putting it in there just to make their job easier. That's my contention.
If you are a talented, value-added employee, then you shouldn't have too many problems finding work. I have met dozens of experienced engineers and Project Managers that were terrible at their jobs. I have heard these same people discussing how they were so experienced and so valuable to their company. Then they go back to their office and get on Facebook and post about how busy they are. Experience is valuable, no doubt, but all you have to do to get it is "be around for a long time". It doesn't make you talented or skilled.
In contrast, I have also met people who work hard and get Master's Degrees and PMP certifications that are terrible project managers. They have the skills, but no talent. They are poor leaders and have no street smarts. Some are even inexperienced which compounds the problem further.
All doctors, even bad ones, went to medical school, but it doesn't mean they are talented doctors. I would be careful about having surgery by a person who didn't go to Medical school though. A degree, a license or a PMP is a certification of skill, not a substitute for experience or a sign of talent. My sixteen year old niece has her driver's license, but there's no way I loan her my car.
That being said, why wouldn't an HR professional want to look for people with a certification of skill? I have interviewed several "engineers" that have degrees such as Early Childhood Development and Psychology. Should their ten years of related experience (on paper) outweigh their lack of education in the topic? Maybe not, but it's a Red Flag. I might opt to wait for a degreed engineer with similar experience to entrust those job duties to—that sounds like it's less of a gamble—at least I know you have an engineering background I am familiar with. Besides, people count all kinds of garbage towards their cumulative experience (10 yrs sweeping a machine shop + 2 years as a Mechanical Engineer = 12 yrs engineering experience).
Looking for a PM is not different is it? If I'm going to give you cost/schedule authority over $2 million of my organization's money, I'd like to know that you have an understanding of project management. I recently worked with an "experienced Project Manager" who I had to teach what a WBS was…I suspect a PMP should now that one. This guy had 10+ years experience managing projects for a company that just flat out wasn't very good at running projects.
The truly talented and hard-working people I know have no problem finding good jobs. In fact, companies often contact them even when they aren't out looking. A resume can highlight your credentials and, to some degree, your experience--but that's all. I'll hire an inexperienced (yet qualified) person over a vastly more experienced person if I know they are talented and hard-working. Having been in the business longer doesn't mean you add more value, period. It probably does mean that you want more money though.
Very interesting discussion, but for a group of experienced people that don't have time to get certified (even though you think it's easy) this sure is a long thread! Hopefully, you guys aren't posting from work…
I am not a certified PMP so I can't comment on the merits and demerits of the same. But that didn't stop me from noticing a few flawed perspectives in many of the comments above.
1) People focusing too much on the argument that a certified Project Manager is not necessarily better than an uncertified one: - Yes! We all know that there are no guarantees! Its the same with any form of education. Isn't it? You can teach the fundamentals to a person... But you can't make sure that he/she applies them too??? Any set of guidelines (like the PMBOK) is created to summarize the learnings accumulated over years (and across industries), so that people are able to connect the dots faster after reading them. I am still thankful for those boring Project Management (and other) lectures during MBA that I thought were a total waste of time 2 years ago!
2) HR guys are lazy: - How opinionated, generalized and ignorant can one be? In any organization Its very common to see people blast their colleagues in other functions and call them "lazy" or "foolish"... When we judge others, we use the most stringent criteria... But when we talk about our efficiency, we factor in the practical difficulties. Being a Consultant who has worked with people in almost all functions across many organizations, I can say for sure that such people are ignorant of what goes on in functions other than their own! The HR guy does not check Project Management skills of a PM. Its the user department that would do it. For a single vacancy, will HR shortlist 100 resumes for interviews or just about 10? So how do they shortlist a select few from all the applicants? The answer is that the user department writes out a few guidelines for the HR guy to shortlist. So if the user department says PMP, the HR guy looks for a PMP! This ensures that the shortlisted guy knows the fundamentals of Project Management (And applied them for 3 years too)... The user department shall gauge the understanding and application part during the interview. The certification may help you get shortlisted, but I am sure its only the application and understanding of those fundamentals that would get you the job. So I guess the above mentioned process of recruitment works for the company just fine! The risk of losing a "slightly better" candidate who is not a PMP (which may or may not be the case) is better than the additional efforts one would have to make to find the perfect one. After all recruiting for this one position is not the only job they do!
One more thing... I am very sure that there are many HR guys out there who are as confident about their capabilities as you are about yours... And if they have defined a rule for recruiting only PMP certified professionals, then they must definitely have noticed some trend. Maybe they figured out that the likelihood of finding the right candidate is significantly higher with certified professionals than with uncertified ones!
But if you truly stand out (and not just in your wishful thinking), I am sure you would succeed in securing the best jobs... even without a certificate!!!
Hi, am working as a system analyst in top mnc wit 8months of exp am pretty fresher wit degree of software engineering .Planning to swap my field from analyst to pmo . Can any one guide me on this?
Hi, like many commenting here, I have spent many years doing project management. I decided to try for certification, studied the books, attended the (highly interactive) courses resultingly ended up discussing with other project managers in very different areas of project management from anything I had ever done, and finally wrote and passed the exam.
In my case, the whole experience leading up to the certification made me spend a few months looking at how I and others do project management from different perspectives from that when one is involved in a particular discipline (in my case IT). I don't think I was bad before, and I don't think I am the world's expert now, but I am undoubtedly a better PM than I was.
Some of the best PMs may never have done a certification, but I when looking for a PM for my company, AMONGST THEIR OTHER ATTRIBUTES, those that do not rely "only" on experience and a 20 year old degree, but got off their bums to brush up despite a heavy schedule would have a definite plus.
your Post is only doing good to PMI. It could have been better elaborating on short falls of PMP rather than what the employers are looking for. I think everybody will be on agreement that knowledge has to be acquired and the skills has to be developed. may be like you we would also develop those skills, and a little knowledge to push through the project.
Wow!!!! Every time this subject comes up people get touchy. Bottom line a PMP cert does not equal a degree nor equal experience. Companies that place that much weight in a cert is setting themselves up. Project Management is much more dynamic and hands-on than what is described in PMBOK. PMBOK cannot teach you how to deal with difficult clients, how to deliver bad news and more importantly how to be a leader. Being a certified PM only teaches you a methodology. I happen to respect the methodology and I use it. But that alone does not make me a great PM. Years of experience of managing different types of projects, learning from my mistakes, great PM mentors and utilizing the methodology has help me soar. Any hiring manager should know this.
Also, I think it is a rip off to charge so much money to take the test. Just my opinion.
Abdul Kader
How PMP Course will help Sale managers?
I had been a 'project manager' for about 4 years before I did the PMP. Initially I only did it to get the cert to bolster my CV and thought of it as just a piece of paper but as I went through the course it really opened my eyes.
Best practices such as earned value management, risk management, quality assurance to name but a few, I beleive have transformed my PM ability and made me a much better PM- I look back on my pre PMP days and cringe when I think of how I 'managed' projects.
Based on my experience I now believe that there are 'people who manage projects' and there are 'project managers', the latter are PMP certified. Granted this is just my experience- but of all my qualifications the PMP hs been the one I have found most practical and most valuable.
Thanks Ron, the website at http://sites.google.com/site/pgmpguide was really useful. there aren't too many free sites with tips and Q&A, and the questions did come in handy. Appreciate it!
I have 3-4 years of solid enterprise level project management experience with direct and indirect resources. I've been successful managing these projects but having a PMP adds a level of credibility to my minimal years of experience. Most articles i've read strongly recommend the PMP cert to PMs with 3-5 years of experience. For those of you who have 10+ years of experience, i'm sorry to hear your accomplishments aren't enough for HR. Most reqs out there have a PMP cert as a "preferred" qualification. Great article!!
First off I agree with the author that a PMP is really a waste of time and money.... Lets say you have 20 years PM experience and a degree in management.... What can they teach you that you don't already know.
I have been a manager of a PMO for 10 years and a PM with over 20 years experience, I have hired PMP people and non PMP people with experience. Let me tell you that a piece of paper you pick up on a weekend cram class isn't worth it and neither are the people who hand them out... Of the 300 people I have hired those with the PMP designation were the most incompetent and difficult to work with. First they think they are entitled and second they have no real world experience.... HR people WAKE up your throwing away a lot of good talent for a piece of worthless paper.....
Second people with PMP designations do not make more money..... Thats misleading in fact if you had one I would pay you less because you were not qualified in most cases to manage sanitation workers...
I would gladly put 5 of my best experienced Project Manager against any PMP and I will guarantee they will get any project done faster, safer and for less money than someone with a PMP... So a gain human resources managers wake up and realize that your getting ripped off and short changed by those who have PMP's. Management is an art and a science as much as it is a people skilled profession...... They teach you those things on the job and not in a three day classroom or from some PMBOK.... I read that book twice and its pretty weird if you ask me.... as is the PMP dont waste your time get experience and work with companies who's HR people know real talent!!!!
If PMP certificate is such a BS and "can be picked up in a weekend cram class", as Paul "The PM" mentioned, then why don't you just get it and get over with whining and complaining how PMP certified people are taking the bread out of your hands.....
It's just one weekend of studying, especially if you have 20+ years of PM experience...com'on, a piece of cake for someone who knows everything there is about PM....
After that one weekend you will never come to this site and say how PMP certified fakers are not in the same boat as 20+ experienced PM professionals....
Grow up people !!!
Agreed with BB.
Paul, I have been running international projects for the last 23 years.
I agree that the title doesnt mean anything unless you can walk the walk.
However; most large projects, involving banks, need a credible tool by which to validate the PM´s credentials. The same applies to most foreign clients. The PMP title clearly has been recognized by financiers as a risk reduction parameter. At the very least the hiring process will be quicker, and interest rates charged for Project Finance will be lower. Financial return is, often, the only thing that matters to the client. Beyond that there are a lot of very very good Labor Foremen out there.
Amit Gulati
I have keen interest in PM role, but I am in IT industry.. I am in to MIS reporting.., what should I do? Should I go for PMP, will it be worth for me
The Project Management Professional (PMP) degree is given by the Project Management Institute (PMI) and has existed for a significant amount of time. It basically certifies you as an expert in project management. The benefits of getting a PMP include potential salary increase as well as better professional recognition and better potential in general. It also looks great on your resume, making it stand out.
197 comments as of this morning, do I dare try to add to what has already been said? Maybe just a little. I worked my way up in the telecommunications industry over 15 years which most of it has been in project management. Never once did an employer asked that I get my PMP nor did they offer classes to assist in obtaining the cert. I know that in general self-improvement is always a good thing and gaining additional PM training in a structured format was a no brainer. So last year I sat for the exam and passed with little difficulty. I'm very glad I did for many reasons that have already been stated here, mainly because being a Project Management Professional shows you have discipline and a firm grasp on yet another project management methodology.
Go for it!
I have an exp of about 3 yrs in Project management. So looking out to complete PMP cert. I am also the memeber of PMI. Can you guide me in how do i start my preparation. I am planning to give around 6months for preparation.
Thanks you very much in advace.
Good discussion
I have recently passed the exam for PMP Certification. I may be a little biased based on my recent success.
I learned a lot from the certification process. There, I said it.
I have almost 20 years in IT now. Much of it has been managing projects large and small for all sizes of companies and even a position with state government. Like MANY people with that kind of history I got into IT without B.S. I was an electronics tech with great aptitude and attitude in the early 90's.
First, The test is NOT easy.
I have earned certs from Nuvell and Microsoft that, trust me, were far harder than anything I had to take for my Associates Degree in Electronics. Those tests were hard, Nuvell practiced a particular brand of torture with their adaptive tests. The PMP exam blasts both Nuvell and Microsoft out of the water.
Second, experience IS taken into account, and the 'Educational Bias' is a part of the process also. Please note, I have managed projects that had budgets in the millions of dollars. I can prove returns for those projects and adherence to schedules.
I learned a lot during the process for studying for the test. I learned some valuable tools to help me avoid certain pitfalls that nearly cratered my career in the past. I leaned valuable lessons that would have helped me spend more time with my wife and kids than pouring over schedules and resource lists trying to dig find a better way to get things done. I had to force myself to read documents other than the PMBOK or the study guides just so I could understand what in the world some of the questions were really asking.
Studying for the PMP exam is a great tool for continuing education. Do I hope that the letters PMP open doors for me, Sure. Just like many hope the B.S., M.B.A., P.H.D. etc... get them where they want to go.
On your road the PMP cert. I have no doubt there will be eye opening moments of "Whoa! I can use that next time." simply because you want to do better.
Sure, there are some who memorize everything and manage to pass, but they also have to show an auditable experience trail that covers at a minimum 3500 hours of PM experience. (for those with at least a B.S. Philosophy, or Music) and 7000 hours for everyone else. (That degree bias thing...)
When I put out my resume these days, no one cares that I Managed a project to move a company from all paper to networked PCs and all the hurdles one has to overcome in such a feat. Maybe my PMP will show them that I'm serious about what I do and that I was willing to put in MANY hours of effort to prove it. (I have documented over 250 hours study and test prep time.)
Still, I see your point. In the early days there were 'Paper' CNEs. (Certified Netware Engineers) Who couldn't get the job done. It should not be the only determining factor on a resume. But then, a four year degree doesn't make one competent either.
Hi All
We must all bear in mind that things are changing in this world.Not long ago our old folks used to study degrees for 3 years.Check out now the very same qualifications can be attained during three weeks and to make it even worse "online".It does not matter you have a degree in business management.You have 20 years of experience plus your degree in your file, I got my project admin cert and PMP cert backed with 3 years experience I can guarantee you that if we are called for an interview I will take the job with my eyes closed and handcuffed.PMP,PRINCE2 are just like facebook and google you just cant live without them.If you need to survive in this industry you better pull up your sleeves and start researching about this certs.
As for the author please do not mislead people.
I wrote an article about the value that I believe a PMP provides here: http://clevergems.com/is-a-pmp-worth-it/
You bring up some valid points in your article. I agree in that sometimes employers can place too much emphasis in a PMP for job placement. Although much of the PMP exam was not relevant to me (and probably not relevant to everyone), there were parts that I believe certainly strengthened my project management capabilities. I think you get what you put into it. Some people can study "just to pass" so that they can apply to jobs with PMP by it. Others can strive for the PMP black belt principle and really apply the concepts learned to their jobs to help truly make them a stronger PM rather than pass a test.
Disclaimer: I am PMP certified.
Gret Arthur
I dont' have a PMP, but I work as a Sr. Program Manager - I feel PMP is waste
Alok Saxena
Maybe I have not earned enough yet....but this is what I think...
Forget about PMP certificate and let's go back to high school certificate or graduation degree.
Suppose I have a real time experience or knowledge that a high school or matured graduation degree holder/ educated should have and I don't have certificate or degree. How long a company or employer would have to take to really know about me before they give me job?
Any job posting requires your basic certificate and degree to minimize their efforts with verifying your level of understanding and skills to do the job.
Similarly, what I think is that the employers try to save time in their screening etc processes assuming that a PMP certified person would at least know about project management concepts hypothetically (don't foget PMI looks for 4500 hours PM hours, and thye grade over average or average the certified people). Now then they say ..let's check rest his/her practical experience in a couple of rounds of in-person interviewes.
I too support PMP is more of theory test. Someone may not have real projects experience, but studied very well can pass and get proficient in all process groups. However, this certainly helps employers to some extent validating any cantidate about his project mgmt skills.
I just cleared PMP certification day before yesterday. Honestly..I found little easier than I had expected and I was done with my exam half an hour early also.
I liked the idea to differentiate the PMP certified people in different levels (belts) based on their scores as currently PMI provides certification to all who scorred in the range of 61-100%. Further, I would also add if any mechanism possible for PMI to assess PM's practical knowledge as well part of PMI certification program that would really identify true world level PMs (globally).
At the end, I think it would not be right to say that PMP is waste or time (as it is worth for the employers first of all when they need PMs quickly in shortage of time) secondly, think about PMP certified people who at least learned the project mgmt concepts hypothetically when they stuied to get certification, but now when they do their next project they will do better pracically. In another words PMP added value to those new PMs or their organizations. Similarly, when we got high school certificate or degree, we better implemented our earned knowledge in our life after we got those certificate or degree.
This is part of the age old debate. How valuable is a credential (formal education)? So the easy answer is all things being equal, I as a hiring manager would prefer someone who took the time and effort to go through the credential or education process. Since you can never have an all things equal situation, I would recommend that as an experienced PM it does not hurt to have the PMP and in fact it can help you as you have a formalized process to learn. The only situation where there is a definite question is when you have very little experience but were able to satisfy the entry requirements and pass the exam. I know several managers who because of their experience with less than seasoned PMs who have their PMP feel the PMP has little value.
Like anything you need to do your homework when you hire. The PMP designation should be looked upon as additional polish but should never be the sole criteria.
Note: I am a PMP
Ass GRabber
The PMP's I know are worthless. But I am sureit helps some.
Gary Drumm
I thought the following statement was pretty interesting...
"...worked for organizations that placed no emphasis on PMP cert and therefore didn't pay for PMI and the tests... PMs who just didn't have the time it takes to document the info and sit for the test".
I would say this. If you're serious about a career in, say, medicine, you're going to put forth the effort and time to do whatever it takes to get into that career. I would say the same is true for project management as a profession. And, make no mistake, it IS a profession. There are numerous schools offering PhD level degrees in the subject, and even more schools offering Masters and Bachelors level degrees, so this is becoming a highly trained and specialized field, and the PMP is defacto standard certification to demonstrate one's knowledge and experience.
If you are serious about your career, it makes sense to put the money up yourself to continue your education (if your employer won't/can't) and put the time in for studying and preparing for the exam and to document your experience. I think this is part of what makes this particular certification so valuable. There are rigid standards to even qualify to sit for the exam.
As for me, I do hold a PMP. As well as two Master Certifications in project management from Villanova University. I took the time and the financial risk to acquire the education necessary to further my career and have reaped pretty significant rewards for it and I often advise others to do the same.
Just my opinion....
PIMBOK guide itself developed (put their experiences) by experienced PM''s and based on that guide conducting test,is not correct. The above" worth it" analysis is makes sence and nice.
To my knowledge PMP certification is addon ,and not mandatory and is guide to follow.
Think Question?
Is PMP certified engineers, execution project well?
is PMP Not certified engineers, is not executing project well?
Some one making money out of it.
Some PMP certified, not understood the objective of PMP certification course and he/she is passing the exam and making others to pass and pushing to mandatory requirment. This is a very good franchise business , only thing, who does franchise will not make money.
Just my opinion….
Having to look through 30-40 resumes a day, I trust PMP certified folks will have the MINIMAL SKILLS needed for our needs, it saves me from sifting through hundreds of bad resumes every quarter. Do I throw some good folks out? Sure I do but I'm able to find the right person for the project faster. Timing is everything for my projects. Time is my biggest commodity. I don't have time worry about the 3 or 4 good resumes being deleted because a few folks don't see the value in earning their PMP Certificate.
Will - If it works for you, that's great. But overall, you are becoming part of the problem. Thankfully, more and more postings either don't mention it or say it's preferred.
Jim Hornett
For the past twenty years I happened to be a medical doctor. I haven't gone to the medical school yet but my skills are based on experience. I think medical schools are out there to make money. They just hand out these MD degrees and those who go to these schools think they are somehow qualified.
I don't have a a website, but I have way too much knowledge that is designed to help out doctors with real-life tips culled from experience - like the last time I gave albuterol pills to a two year old (the stupid kid swallowed it and choked) or how I tried homeopathy on cat. Hey I am talking from experience here !
I have "real life experience". Why not come to me? It is not like I am going to kill you or something !!
Sure Jim...this is exactly the same thing. Not. 20 years of real life PM experience trumps a newly christened PMP with the minimal hours of experience any day, IMO....but that's just my opinion...and experience from the many orgs I've worked with and the many colleagues I've interacted with. As for practicing medicine without the degree....well...I think you know you'd go to jail.
My personnel opinion based on my experience is that, people who cannot take the extra step to pass the PMP says wrong about the certification and try to go along with their esperience.
Seems to me to be a means forr those who couldn't make it in a CS or CIS program to by pas years of hard work if they are willing to spend the money to get right to place 3 letters beside their name. I propose 6 letters, CHACSP (Couldn't Hack A Computer Science Program).
What is worth it? Only for my credential and when applying for new jobs. Made me a better project manager? No, I only learned how to take a certification test. Do I only hire PMPs? Only when I need someone to train other to pass the test.
Dear Rodolfo,
And why you need to train others to pass the test? dont you think that this is a very good proof that you have unintentionally mentioned that PMP is worth?
M.Guha Rajan
One cannot claim that not all the PMP certified project managers are best. Its a known fact, PM role in handling project related issues, challenges etc is more situational based on the project contraints and each situation for that matter can be unique. Hence, to understand the basic frame work on project management one has to acquire these skills through experience or education (certification/study).
Further in my veiw point PM role is comparable to an entreprenuer and he has keep in control of so many contraints & factors to make the project successful. In case of an entreprenuer the financial losses of a venture is more associated with an entreprenuer, however same cannot be said with PM. Most likely the organization has to bear the loss or success. Hence naturally, organizations recruiting PMs would definetely look for experience and PMP certification is an added support for a particular candidate - that some kind of validation has been done on the candidates experience & credentials. Hence, I believe PMP certification is worth it.
Hi all,
i have a Q, iam not in the field, and i want to join it, so what should i do, i have a degree in BA and my work experience in XML and CC, i dont have any experience in PM. So with no experience what should i do to join this career.
thanks in advance
The article does not ask if the PMP makes you a better project manager, it asks if it is worth it. That value decision will depend. If you are job hunting then yes, it is worth it. Like it or not, many organisations make having a PMP a pre-requisite for the first stage of job applications. Are the companies "right"? Who cares! In such cases the value of the PMP certification is whatever value you assign to finding potential work. The PMI have done a very good job of marketing the PMP and, for good or bad, many companies now latch onto it as some sort of indicator.
I have the PMP certification. I obtained it as part of a job hunting exercise. Previously I had 20 years of project management experience. Did the PMP make me a better project manager? No. Did it help get me a job? Yes. Was it worth it to me? Yes.
Part of my role is hiring project managers. Do I insist on a PMP? No.
Great response. I agree...if you're thinking purely in terms of job hunting, then it is probably worth it. I still think that's unfortunate and I have to say that I see less and less postings that 'require' it. But does it make you a better PM? I agree with you that experience trumps certification every time...as long as it's good experience.
I am a PMP w/ 8 years experience and am not offended by your article at all. The bottom line is that you are correct that actual PM experience is by far the most important thing. You do state in the article and share some of your frustration that career advancement and/or job opportunities are NOT available or limited without a PMP. In government, banking, and tech sectors it's nearly impossible without a PMP. Therefore the reader should weigh their goals and determine based on that if it is worth it. The test was tough and a "necessary evil" but my opportunities are far greater with a PMP than without one.
Aleem Khan
well written post bred, can't believe was written four years back and still very relevant
I Believe the PMP certification is worth. If you want to practice with great practice exams go to www.pmppracticeexams.com
I must say that this article reflects the logics a good PM should has, and I must also say to the first comment: your purpose of certifying yourself seems completely "fuori la strada"!
Hi, Great article for sure. But regarding PMP debate, lets consider the below;
I know what medicines to prescribe for stomach pain, headache, back pain. People near by come to me consistently and I have been prescribing them medicines for the last 10 years. I do not have medical qualifications as I feel its crap, why should I have it? After all I have been successful the last 10 years. So, is it ok that I continue in this fashion forever?
Your argument on PMP certificate vs experience is something similar to what I have mentioned above. If you feel you are happy with you current situation, do not think you might move beyond that circle inside which you operate currently, or if you feel you are confident enough to convince people with what you did for 10 years, well then I do not see any reason why someone should spend around 600-700USD for something additional.
But its worth also considering, when you move out of your comfort zone, the people who needs to evaluate you may not have the patience to hear out your 10year story, rather they might look at something easy like a qualification to choose you. If you get evaluated by people who has the patience then good for you else you might feel sorry for not getting certified.
For the "shake and bake" wanna be's - times may have changed and maybe it's true you can get PMP in 3 weeks (that's only getting 61% correct on glossary/theorem) and with 2-3 yrs experience call yourself a Project Manager. Yes, indeed, times have changed...majority of college graduates hold BA's with majors like "Communications", "Women's Studies" and "Sports Management". Many of these same folks enroll in a boot camp and buy a PMP..
But some things don't change like experience trumps and risks/challenges on $1MM+ projects and ramifications to business if over budget and off schedule.
Hi, I am a PMP for 5 years now. As I can still remeber the hardest part of learning for the exam was to memorize the inputs, tools & techniques and outputs (called ITTO's) from PMBOK. From August 1st 2013 PMP examination is based on PMBOK 5th edition, which brings some more processes and ITTO's. My trick at learning was to use this free tool: PMP Itto quiz (http://www.monkibo.com/pmp-exam-itto-trainer/index.html) It is now available online and free for all. Good luck with the exam!
It seems like you answered your own question. If employers are using it to screen out candidates then it's worth something. Getting an interview is the toughest part of a job search.
" ...the weight that employers place on this designation when looking for Project Managers. I hear this again and again from PMs looking for work.To these organizations, it's an easy screening mechanism for their HR personnel."
I believe you now need to get 80% of the questions right on the exam. Not 60% as you stated.
Mark Nyacki
We've been collectively hoodwinked into a false sense of security when it comes to project management. Get a Project Management Institute (PMI) certified Project Management Professional (PMP) to run your project and follow the Project Management Body of Knowledge (PMBOK® Guide) and we're led to believe your project will maximize it's chances of successfully completing on-time, on-budget, and meet the right quality thresholds.
I provide four reasons we need to move beyond the PMBOK in my blog. Problems include 1) requiring a PM to be certified, 2) requiring all the PMBOK artifacts, 3) implementing "heavy" infrastructures, and 4) emphasizing process over people.
Read more:
I qualified to take the exam...all the hours a B.S> degree in Bus Management etc... I also did boot camp and two online courses. Read and have Ritas books and the on line tests. after a month of studying after being laid off failed the 5th edition exam. Crushed I surrendered...PMI was gracious enough to extend my time limit but I honestly felt there was so much material that was not on the test and the nature of the questions is BS. Congrats to all who passed you must have photo graphic memories. Learned a lot but at incredible expense...Not recommending it to anyone
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Project Management: Is PMP Certification Worth It? « Project Management Tips || Project Management, Collaboration and Knowledge Management Blog
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Lab and test equipment coach purses THE GOAL. Accomplished balloon pilots , of Albuquerque, and Leonid Tiukhtyaev (too-kh-TY'-yev) of Russia, launched from Saga, Japan, early Sunday Japan time. They're aiming for the shores of North America, an attempt that will put them on course to break a distance record of 5,208 miles that has stood for more than three decades. They're also looking to break the flight-duration record set in 1978 when , and made the first trans-Atlantic balloon flight. That record of 137 hours in the air in a traditional gas balloon is considered the "holy grail" of ballooning achievements.
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With the conference tournament looming, a look into the updated league standings for the 2-4A seems appropriate. The senior high conference tournaments will be held Feb. 16-21 with all games played at the Gina Cox Center in Lonoke. Senior High Boys Helena, 9-1 Riverview, 9-2 CAC, 8-2 E-Stem, 7-3 Lonoke, 5-6 Stuttgart, 4-7 Heber Springs, 3-8 Newport, 2-8 Southside, 0-10 Senior High Girls Riverview, 11-0 CAC, 9-1 E-Stem, 6-4 Heber Springs, 6-5 Southside, 5-5 Lonoke, 4-7 Helena, 3-7 Newport, 3-7 Stuttgart, 0-11 The junior high conference tournaments will be held Feb. 9-14 and will be hosted by Newport. Junior High Boys Southside, 4-0 Stuttgart, 4-1 Riverview, 3-2 Helena, 2-2 Lonoke, 2-3 Newport, 0-2 Heber Springs, 0-4 Junior High Girls Lonoke, 4-1 Heber Springs, 4-2 Southside, 2-2 Riverview, 2-3 Helena, 2-3 Stuttgart, 2-3 Newport, 0-3 coach outlet Fallen pole closes part of Highway 198Pole may have been hit by driver who fell asleepLocal2?days, 5?hours agoLocal
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