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Within a minute of thinking up a lie the Coalition is said by Labor to have costing's with a $70 billion black hole, but it doesn't. One minute later the Coalition is accused of planning to increase the GST, but they cannot? The next minute they will bring back Workchoices, but they will not. Meanwhile, "over the last three months, WHSQ inspectors found unacceptable asbestos handling failures at NBN worksites at Banyo, Carseldine and Mackay, and at Carseldine, high pressure water was used to clean a telecommunications pit containing asbestos. Debris was observed on the faces and clothes of two workers," while "asbestos should not be a political football", according to Bill Shorten?
Enough is Enough,
Joe Hockey and Tony Abbott refuse to abide by the Coaliton's own Charter of Budget Honesty (it was created by Howard and Costello when they were in government), and lazy and incompetent Joe Hockey refuses to add up his own costings.
So after 6 years and 50,000 illegal arrivals by boat Burke claims that would be boat people are now asking for their money back from the smugglers - your joking. ALP didn't know who the smugglers were up to today, didn't know who the boat people were and didn't have a clue about any related information but now the Immigration Ministers has direct contact for information with the smugglers and the boat people. How much more spin and lies can we expect over the next 31 days?
Trouble is.....the company tax cut that Tonys offering is only going to benefit around 300,000 small businesses that are incorporated......Tony and Joe must have spent hours working that one out............how can we give a tax cut that benefits the smallest group possible, while making out it benefits everyone..!!
Tony Abbott will stop the votes!
company tax changes 30% +or- 1.5% = 31.5% or 28.5% maybe? or will it be 1.5% of 30?? ie: 30.45% or 29.95
also does the increase come before or after the reduction? the arithmetic makes a significant difference. maybe like the birthday cake and GST?
Gillard had no plans to impose a carbon tax either, but she did.
How do I vote for Palmer and Assange?
yes to Assange: he could be a good balance of power in the Senate to block any undesirable legislation from an LNP govt. He seems to have a good sense of society so should be OK with an ALP govt. Palmer: what will we get? a dinosaur park in every capital city and regional city; a replica of the Hindenberg or one for every nation? Who knows?
Put a "1" against their name.
You don't vote on Tuesday's but you vote on Wednesday's.
"Comment" from someone who says he doesn't vote has all the hallmarks of Joe Hockey's eleventynomics.
Does Assange get Diplomatic immunity if voted into the Senate?
Yes he gets immunity. The UK has stated that it would not recognise that convention. The Senate gets to vote on whether they deny him the immunity. the UK could ask the Australian government to have that vote before it recognises Assange's position. Given that both major parties are on record as having said he should return to Sweden, they may co-operate.
All quiet on the we'll stop the boats mantra, maybe they've stopped coming.
Now that the boats have stopped, what is the next slogan that Abbott will fall back on?
No, Rudd is looking for money to pay for their transportation.
Morrison will be furious if the boats have stopped!!He wants them to keep coming..sad sad man.
Burke sais they are demanding their money back from the "smugglers".
New mantra needed from Tones if that's the case.
"Stopping my votes".
Some of Hockey's claims have been truly extraordinary don't you think?
Changing from low interest rates being good to low interest rates being bad.
Changing from deficits being bad to deficits being good.
Backflip after backflip. No wonder he is losing weight.
For 3 looong years Abbott has been telling(Lying)to us that if we dont have a "Carbon Tax" We DONT need the compensation that goes with it..Remember THAT!!..Well guess what,YUP he will be KEEPING the compensation!!.Why keep the compensation if the electricity and gas bills miraculously drop?Are you admitting that bills wont drop now?HYPOCRITE.
Abbott is keeping the compensation so that everyone who has budgeted for it in their household income is not further inconvenienced by having it ripped away from them.
The Coalition are careful planners and let people know where they stand.
Do you plan a household budget and have to account for where the money is spent each week and month?
Look power prices increased for the most part to climate change directly and indirectly. Labor has virtually dumped all of its climate change policies, and the Coalition climate change polics not worth the paper it is written on.
So we now have no climate change policies and no reason to charge double for a KWh of power. Therefore the cost lays with the states and Commonwealth, through the Council of Australian Governments and the Ministerial Council on Energy, who set the rules that require the Australian Energy Regulator ensures electricity prices reflect the cost of supply not Tony Abbott. Got it?
"The Coalition are careful planners and let people know where they stand."
Really? I don't think Mr Hockey got that memo. He can't or won't give the "people" a bottom line for his budget.
The banks are not lending readily at the moment because of basel 3 rules etc. ...
Most People do not have spare cash because of their private bank debt buildup from John Howards era of easy borrowing from banks............
Under Abbott......Where then is the so called stimulating effect of a company tax cut going to come from that Tony is talking about if banks are not lending...............and he cuts back on Government spending as he has stated he is going to do??
Bank lending is still going on strong. If we used your logic, yesterday's RBA decision to cut rates would have been futile.
Rodrigo, they're cutting rates because of the John Howard era of over-borrowing,..... people are so loaded up with debt, they have just plain had to cut the rates., not enough money spare to spend in businesses or anywhere.......thanks John Howard.
In May this year, Opposition Leader Tony Abbott announced that if elected the Coalition would re-examine the Henry Tax Review and call for a tax white paper. He said the GST could be included in the review.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/kevin-rudd-pledges-no-gst-rise-as-coalition-under-pressure-to-reveal-details-on-company-tax-cut-20130807-2re8n.html#ixzz2bG3B9mgc
Now Joe says the same thing.
Can Abbott & Joe PLEASE EXPLAIN
what a review achieves unless to increase or expand it?
The GST can only be increased by consensus of the states in Australia, not by the federal Government, the Feds can review the tax system and make a recommendation, which is what Abbott and Hockey are saying they will do, then put it to the people to consider and that would include agreement by all states. So just to be clear, if you're trying to spin it as a negative of the coalition, you are barking up the wrong tree, see your team leader (Labor stooge school) and they will reassign you with the Work Choices spin lines so you have something negative to peddle and not look silly making incorrect claims (read lies) about the coalition raising the GST.
No I don't Jerry, as I see that the alternative is worse. At least in the NBN case, the general population are the beneficiaries. In the Coalition's case, it's their rich mates.
The NBN will give ordinary Australians the ability to produce content and publish it online far better and cheaper than anything that went before. Rupert doesn't want us to be able to compete with him on that
How is the Labor $200b black hole going, Tone? I hear it's growing by $1b per week.
I already read in The Australian today that the NBN cost has blown out by $5b. You don't mind that blow out, it seems.
It is called stimulating growth as all economists understand that increased taxation regresses growth.
Undaunted by this logic Rudd changed Medibank from non-profit to tax paying entity for reason of $850 million in fees and extra taxes, realising third yearly increase in Medibank fees. Labor's cagey methodology of further tax imposts realise about $15 billion: Alcopops tax, New tax on Australians working overseas, Cutting superannuation tax-free contributions, Restrictions on business losses, Changes to Employee Share Scheme, Cigarette tax 25% increase, Mining tax, Ethanol tax increase, LPG excise increase, Further restrictions on medical expenses before claiming tax refund, luxury car tax increase, Flood tax, Tax increase on company cars, Abolition of Entrepreneurs' Tax Offset, Phasing out of Dependent Spouse Tax Offset, Disallowance of deductions against government assistance payments, Removing minors' eligibility for the low income tax offset on unearned income, Deferral of Tax Breaks for Green Buildings, Carbon tax now an ETS. Disability Care levy, bank deposit levy, the Mining Tax, Increased FBT tax and another increase of tobacco tax.
Having done all of this some parts of the country are already in recession, oh dear, I wonder why?
So what happened to the need for a surplus? Out the window now?
And why did Abbott vote against lowering the Corporate Tax rate?
Don't tell me it was just his lust for power?
Pure Gold and so true and to everyone who thinks the Dudd Pony Show will bring benifits please read this 1s will ya!!!
pen...the budget has become expansionary for this very reason......both the RBA and the govt have now got the same policy to try to expand the economy....just the opposite of contractionary......we are on the way up again from a not so low position. All we have to do is start spending....then let the automatic stabilisers start working.
You are not paying attention again, what does my opening sentence state? High taxes do not a surplus make my son. They do the very opposite and you are living the proof of the pudding, aren't you?
The proposition that taxes always reduce productivity is very simplistic economics. They can. However, taxes are crucial to supply infrastructure, including the 'human capital' from education and training, without which productivity will stagnate or fall. And if you don't provide adequate health services, people cannot sometimes work. That's why all developed countries have taxation systems and government services; it's not just bleeding-heart welfarism.
pen....could it be that you are the one not listening? Even with all of these taxes you have mentioned..........the budget is at the moment EXPANSIONARY to stimulate spending.........yes both fiscal and monetary policy are officially expansionary.......EXPANSIONARY regardless of your list of taxes.....
Which one of the last six interest rate cuts stimulated spending, JT? People are losing their jobs at an ever increasing rate and you think people are going to go on spendfest? Delusional as ever.
Pen of Hrba,
Labor may have changed Medibank Private to a for profit organisation but the hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue generated by Medibank Private each year remains in public hands because Labor has no plans to sell Medibank whereas the Coalition plans to sell it, although they have failed to mention this in their "Our Plan" pamphlet.
"Abbott confirms Coalition plan to sell Medibank Private" (Financial Review 2 Apr 2013)
"Federal Opposition Leader Tony Abbott in effect has confirmed a Coalition government would privatise national health insurer Medibank Private, in what would be one of the biggest public share offers since the $7 billion sale of Queensland coal haulage operator QR National two years ago."
Every single one of those rate cuts have had the impact of stimulating spending pen.....every single one......why do you think that Australia is not in recession (3 terms of consecutive negative GDP)??? It's because of the RBA's rate cuts....this is where you have to start taking notice...its called monetary policy. There is a monetary lag pen, spending just doesn't rebound overnight. Maybe it will take one more to really shift household economic behaviour but it will....it is a good thing....if you say otherwise then you show your ignorance.
Economics 101: dead weight of taxation
@Pen, you're opening statement is just plain wrong, every part of it. You've used a simplistic argument, but its called supply side economics, famously called voodoo economics, and was shown by the US in the 80's to not stimulate the economy, in fact it increased their deficit. So, no, it doesn't simplistically stimulate growth, and most economists know this.
Well if Qld is in recession (and we have not seen the figures) it is a direct result of tha Qld small government, big society experiment. It is not working and our unemployment rate is going up and up. Big business and the "mates" are benefiting as they pick up the "outsourcing".
Sack pathology workers. Then where does the hospital now send its pathology testing? That is one example of many!!
I don't trust Abbott not to do the same.
Penn - why don't you have a day off to smell the roses? It will still be the same when you get back!
The libs have said they are cutting company tax......with no costings........
I can only assume then, that they will be cutting public services such Health, Police, Fireman,Teachers, as well as cuts to pensioners, and increased taxes on wage earners, .... to pay for the tax cut.......and more privatisation of public assets.
Howard never increased pensions adequately in his whole term as PM........trust that Abbott will do the same........gotta save money somewhere....cut, slash and burn....
It is easy. They just revise their "no plans" for the GST to a "new plan" for the GST.
Surely the electorate will forgive them for misleading them. It is only Labor who lie isn't it?
On what basis do you make this conclusion? Oh yeah, because that's what Rudd and his fellow incompetents say
TA quotes JG as saying
*if you are against a cut in company tax you are against business* in 2012.
Would that be the same year TA and his band of Merry Misleaders voted against a cut in company tax? (along with the Miserable Milne and the Groans)
Yes, and I believe it was because to vote for the company tax cuts they would also have been required to vote for a carbon tax. Very sneaky of you to forget that little detail of the carbon tax.
kp So are you saying it is only ok for Mumbles to selectively quote, and oppose?
Who the hell is mumbles? Besides, we were talking about your comment.
kp Mumbles Abbott (Stumbles Hockeys offsider); used the quote - did not care about the context; I use the historical fact of his vote - his precedence absolves me from requiring to explain the context.
I also happen to think that his previous advocating of a *tax* on carbon means he could have supported both measures; were it not for the looney rights squirrel grip on him
Within a minute of thinking up a lie the Coalition is said by Labor to have costing's with a $70 billion black hole, but it doesn't. One minute later the Coalition is accused of planning to increase the GST, but they cannot? The next minute they will bring back Workchoices, but they will not. Meanwhile, "over the last three months, WHSQ inspectors found unacceptable asbestos handling failures at NBN worksites at Banyo, Carseldine and Mackay, and at Carseldine, high pressure water was used to clean a telecommunications pit containing asbestos. Debris was observed on the faces and clothes of two workers," while "asbestos should not be a political football", according to Bill Shorten?
Our resident fact free zone.
I think you will find they were Telstra work sites. David Thodey conceded that.
Telstra have reviewed the work of their contractors, insisted on retraining their contractors and they started work again on Monday.
But I agree with Shorten, you shouldn't be using it as a political football. People's lives are at stake.
Can you guarantee that Abbott doesn't have a $70bn black hole? How did he fill it?
Can you guarantee that he won't bring back aspects of Work Choices? He won't show us his policy.
Can you guarantee that he will not expand the GST? Hockey said they would, and now says they "have no plans".
Is that the same "no plans" that O'Farrell had prior to having a plan to allow shooting in National Parks?
An employee of Telstra who worked in these pits as just died from an asbestos related disease. Work on the NBN has more or less come to a grinding halt. The unions are beside themselves, not from a sense of guilt or a sense of hypocrisy, but from genuine humbug that the entire sordid affair has nothing to do with them.
Unions understand there was no reason for the use of asbestos as an additive in concrete since the 1950's as other safe alternatives came onto the market at this time. They also understand asbestos had been a proven cause of death since the 1930's, as detailed in science and medical journals besides wider media coverage. By 1946 1.3 million Australians (15% of population) were members of a union, and after asbestos was a proven cause of death. Nevertheless unions continued to allow its members to work amidst asbestos as did government its own employees.
The Telecommunications Act of 1975 established Telecom Australia. Wholly owned by the Commonwealth of Australia, Telecom became the sole supplier of domestic telecommunications under the authority of the Minister of Transport and Communications. So government owned Telecom while its employees operated in asbestos pits, asbestos was not phased out in Australia until 1989 and banned entirely in 2003 some 72 years after proven to be a cause of death.
And now it's Telstra's fault, right?
Great logic, Steve what have you got for an encore?
Pen.....One name for you Pen....Bernie Banton. Remember? The man who spent his dying days fighting for Asbestos victims. The man Abbott said was "not pure of heart".I wouldn't be using Asbestos to attack Labor Pen. Especially when the deputy leader of the Liberal Party (Julie Bishop) used to represent the company the victims were suing. And her delaying tactics are the stuff of legend.
Asbestos is a terrible legacy and I am now directly involved in its removal from the Telecommunications network.
What I said was that tying it to NBN is an hysterical, politically motivated move.
Telstra has been managing its removal for years and two contractors have got it wrong. The investigation into why they got it wrong is not yet complete.
Telstra has taken responsibility and has retrained the contractors and is managing the process more closely.
Don't make a political football out of a tragedy.
Is he the same Eric of UTEGATE debacle whose mudslinging failed miserably and brought down Malcolm T.?
Senior Liberal senator Eric Abetz has made a parliamentary apology to Prime Minister Kevin Rudd over his role in botched corruption allegations against the Prime Minister.
Looks like he is back to grab the headlines throwing stink bombs and causing mischief. The Voters wants real policies, costings and alternatives not more diversions.
Eric need to do much better. Maybe as a mentor to the Bumbling Liberal candidate for Greenway, Jaymes Diazas
I noticed that too. Everything the Coalition say is now extaordinary. lol
They're all saying it. Wong this morning said it about 3 times, Rudd said it a couple of times today, Albo used it and now just heard Burke use it a couple of times.
How extraodindary!
Hacka. Labor at $4 with sportsbet. A nice little return for me on the 8th September. Favorites have lost at the post on many occasions.
Quite right Johno, you might collect. To put it in perspective though, i think GWS paid less against the Swans the other day.
Oh my, where have I heard "there will not be a rise in the gst under a government I lead" that was the carbon tax slogan, that promise was broken so I guess this one will be too.Spends a lot of time with kids, maybe because they won't ask questions like adults will.
Fair call. At least Abbott is not so silly to say never, ever, like his mentor. Rather, he has used the cliched weasel words 'no plans' (and note the plural).
Of course, it would be nice to think that the current crop of political journalists were even half of the previous generation. None of them has challenged Abbott to put it in blood or say 'never, ever'. Not that you could believe him anyway.
It's only $5b apparently, so why worry? Labor doesn't tell you that they go further in the red by $1b per week, do they?
Labor doesn't ask you when it goes in the red $1b per week, do they?
The Coalition has already said that the
will only do the tax cut when they can afford it. That's a whole lot better than Labor who does things even when they can't afford it.
Surely the ALP can get more than a fiver from long life friends like Eddie and Macca?
If the ALP gets back in Bowen will be giving budget updates every week. You know it has been very hard to have accurate figures available all the time and the Assistant Treasurer has just been having too many bad days.
So let me get this right.
Hockey doesn't believe Treasury forecasts. He believes the situation is much worse than the Government is letting on.
So he is giving away $5bn in Revenue.
How are the spinmeisters spinning that as responsible policy?
@Steve, if you believe anything treasury or labor tells you you won't get anything right.
The economy is struggling. The way you improve it is to give business - including small business - a helping hand which in turn improves the economy and then subsequently increases the revenue flow back to the government. This then helps pay debt.
A strong economy leads to increase business revenue which leads to government revenue.
Hockey and the coalition are right - unless you think money magically appears.
The Coalition plans to stimulate the corporate sector with a tax cut - that may actually increase tax revenues.
But this is the opposition who opposed cuts in Corporate Tax rates.
And what happens to the budget surplus? Has Hockey decided that now deficits are good?
Just like he now thinks low interest rates are bad?
What does he believe in anyway? Power at any cost?
Rodrigo how can cutting company tax increase tax revenues?.........this means LESS tax revenue for the Government.
@kp and @rodrigo, but only on the supply side for business, not the demand side for consumers. Businesses will need to create demand, say, by passing on the decreased tax onto consumers as lower prices, which is unlikely. The net positive impact on profit will be for businesses, who will only invest in the economy if there is demand, and lowering company tax won't do it.
Don't make us laugh.
How many years of lower taxes before businesses grow enough to repay the deficit?
This is nothing more than a vote grab and you know it.
Steve, the opposition had to vote against the original company tax cuts proposed by labor because they were linked to the carbon tax…logical.
As for the budget surplus, the budget will return to surplus if companies are making profits. So investing in Australian businesses may cause short term pain for the budget but provide long term gain in the future and lead to stronger budget surpluses.
And Hockey never said low interest rates are bad (have you and David Bradbury been talking???). He said the economy is going badly which is why the reserve bank needed to drop interest rates.
As for power at any costs, didn't Kevin Rudd say he would not be challenging Julia Gillard before the election? How about all the Ministers who said they could not work with Rudd (hello Penny Wong)? Or the backbenchers who said the same thing? Once they realised Gillard could not win they knifed Gillard faster than Brutus on Caesar.
Labor is all about celebrity and sound bites, that is why the economy is in disarray.
Yes, yes kp, we know what employer unions and the Coaliton mean by stronger economy - Workchoices in 2005, 457 visas since 1996, and in 2013, slashing penalty rates, removing unfair dismissal protection, reintroducing statutory non-union, individual contracts, creating a new body to overrule Fair Work Australia decisions, and a 1.5% company tax rate cut funded by an increased GST or a broadening of the GST base.
lessisnotmore and Steve,
It shows you know nothing about business or economics.
Tax cuts are like interest rate cuts - both measures can be used to stimulate the economy.
Joe hockey has surpassed himself. Albanese has a beer with an independent who has no chance of being re-elected and this is evidence of labor doing secret deals! Talk about a vivid imagination ...
Ever herd of preference deals, over a beer of course.
Well MacDonald and Obeid use to have many beers together, usually over a long lunch. But nothing ever went down there, did it?
Preferences are decided by the voter n the House of Reps.
Preference deals are done for the Senate.
Thompson isn't in the Seante.
Clearly David Bradbury was yesterday expecting the media organisation he was "on air" at to just accept the nonsense he was speaking, as do a large proportion of the left leaning media.
The surprise and the display of his true colours when he was actually challenged on the accuracy of his claim concerning Joe Hockey's statements regarding the significance of the interest rate reduction, was a very revealing insight into the way in which he obviously views the media as lap dogs.
How dare someone question his assertions?
Of course, he acts this way because the ALP MPs have become accustomed to being able to say pretty much anything they like to the media.
What world do you live in? One where The Telegraph is left wing?
Twiggy Forrest lost his court battle on the mining tax. But he need not worry Tony will abolish the mining tax and give him a 1.5% company tax break to boot.
better than sending him to the wall and putting thousands out of work as labor will do.
You should remember that its not just Tony but the LNP and its not just Kevin, its labor - the guilty party.
It will be a long time before Twiggy goes bust.
The MRRT only taxes profits over $75m. So Twiggy gets to keep the first 75 and share some of the rest of it with us.
Yesterday just to cover the bad news, he was giving millions to local communities - all good!
What's this with 'extraordinary" being said every 5 mins by Labor?????
I noticed that too. Everything the Coalition say is now extaordinary. lol
They're all saying it. Wong this morning said it about 3 times, Rudd said it a couple of times today, Albo used it and now just heard Burke use it a couple of times.
How extraodindary!
Some of Hockey's claims have been truly extraordinary don't you think?
Changing from low interest rates being good to low interest rates being bad.
Changing from deficits being bad to deficits being good.
Backflip after backflip. No wonder he is losing weight.
For the record, I would like to state categorically, as the fact of the matter as outlined in my detailed programmatic speficity, that further to recent discussions ad nauseum I have no plans to run for Parliament as the Member for Luna Park. So that does not mean I will contest the seat of Luna Park, it just means I have no plans. And whilst we are discussing plans, I also have no plans to fly to the moon, marry Nigella Lawson and find a cure for the common cold. Thankyou and good day.
Hacka. We will get budget updates, by Chris Bowen after Sept 7th as treasurer of this country.
Jolly good Johno - looks like Sportsbet will have some money to pay out then at $4.00 (ALP).
What's wrong with saying the Coalition has no plans to change the GST?
They also said that they would take any tax changes to the electorate at the next election. How wrong it is to let us decide - shouldn't be allowed.
Of course the GST should be part of the equation when it comes to examining the tax system. That's what it is meant.
I note that Rudd is doing all his campaigning at schools, in the safety of a bus or with a hand picked group of supporters
The recent Mugabe's election victory in Zimbabwe clearly inspired the Australian political spin masters – a promise of a $1 handout for doing nothing while bankrupting the country gives more votes than an opportunity to earn $10 working hard.
Same worked in USA for Obama and here Labor is following it to the letter with help of imported US experts in deceitful propaganda.
Yes...its worked for the far right political parties for over 50 years....time for the ALP to start to be able to compete.
What about the $450 million for before / after School care .... Does rudd know that under govt regulations introduced last year and coming into effect next year anyone working in before / after School care OOHSC MUST HAVE at least a Certificate 3 in childcare.... how many Mums have that ... as well how many Mums can work from 6-30am to 8-30am then 2-30pm till 6-30pm wh is going to look after the children? the other thing would be the child could be in School care with them ... they earn less than the cost? go figure...
Agree Zebb. But this PM will do and say anything to secure your vote and default after the election is over. Wasn't this the same PM who promised 200+ day care centres. Australia got how many?
In 2007 Rudd promised there would be 260 new child care centres in uni's, TAFE and in the community but by 2010 only 38 had been established and the program was quietly shutdown.
This latest promises by Rudd is a repeat of the 2007 promise and again show that facade Rudd is all promise and no delivery
Zeb - it seems you are assuming only *mums* work in OOSH.
From where do you glean this?
Disclosure; I spent a number of years working in OOSH and Vacation care.
From first hand experience, I know how long a certain Deputy PM and certain Health Minister have valued this service.
Come on, don't let incidentals like realities spoil the illusion for the delusional mob. It spoils their sense of fantasy of living in fairy land under the moon.
What's a few more million in spending when tobacco tax has been increased to square more school funding? You can see the logic of increasing FBT while giving a few more hundred million to the car industry, can't you? The bank deposit tax will help to pay the interest bill?
It is all logical to the rusted, you have to let your neurons corrode a little and it will all make sense.
I dont think only Mums work in the trade my Son is doing a Traineeship in the area and I know the hours he works and they are the hours that most "Mums" would be using in getting their own children off to School not looking after other peoples children
The other "Promise" made in his first tilt at being Prime Minister was that both he and Julia thought we needed more student taking up Maths and Science based degrees and they were going to make them "free" or cut the Hex fees substantially .... my other son currently has a $30k hexs fee for a Science degree...
Don't let reality get in the way will you.
The real cost of childcare has gone DOWN under this government.
Neutral Voter,
Tony Abbott promised 100 dams and a direct hotline to the Australian navy.
Abbott also opposed tighter regulation on the 457 skilled migration system despite widespread rorting.
Liberal state governments in Vic, NSW and Qld are spending billions of dollars on employment agency tenders while sacking tens of thousands of public servants, and replacing them with casuals, contractors and labour hire employees.
Wow the PM visits a Korean group in Ryde, now suddenly Korean language is a priority. So if he meets a muslim group from Iran next will Farsi also be on the language list. It is true what is being said that the PM will do anything to win a vote and default on the idea later. Shame on the PM!
Why are all PM's stops at schools with young school children - why not talk to the adults in the room - haven't seen the strolls through shopping centres of late - maybe the hysteria has died down
This whole Murdoch conspiracy issue is hilarious. Yesterday the Fairfax AFR wrote an editorial recommending a change of government. Also yesterday the Canberra Times (Fairfax) very clearly recommended a vote for Labor. Apparently that's okay - but when the nasty Rupert does the same it's just not cricket.
Remember too that Conroy introduced specific get-Rupert laws in April (remember, pass-them-by-the-end-of-next-week-or-else). Of course the rules were so daft that they were withdrawn.
Why wouldn't Rupert have an anti-ALP position ? Many Aussie voters do too.
Don't forget The Age's role is deposing ruling PM Gillard via it's Editorial only 12 weeks ago. No influence then apparently.
Anyone - in the media or elsewhere - have every right to advocate a vote for whomever they please. The complaint about some Murdoch publications is about slanting news and headlines - but I guess they have the right to do that as well, only exposing it is equally legitimate.
It's not just about the front page the other day. It's about the last 5 years or more of anti-Labor propaganda or, in layman's terms, blatant lies.
EiE - don't forget Michelle Grattan's article back in May 2012 calling for Gillard to go then.
How do all the Rupertophiles deal with that one ?
Seriously, are there no limits to your blind devotion?
Your ability to be reasonable and logical may be somewhat lacking, but your loyalty sure is admirable.
So, you compare an "opinion" like that of, say, Bolt, or Akerman, run in the Tele EVERY day, to a full front page ultimatum???? wow. Even for you, this is a new level.....
Gee the ALP gymnastics class of 2013 are doing lots of triple pikes with a short tumble followed by an extremely poor landing. Loss of points for that. Fair shake of the sauce bottle comrades can't you see through the smoke and mirrors though I thought cooking with gas was a clean energy. Anyway, please don't forget to turn off the lights on 7 September when you exit the gymnasium for 3 years and a bit more I hope.
The difference is that The Age is relatively balanced. Murdoch would rather have a few pollies in his pocket and Rudd is refusing to go there.
The Murdoch press has every right to an opinion and if they want to put iton the front page fine. What they dont have the right to do is make stuff up and misrepresent. when we look at the revelations of the leveson inquiry, why are we not suprised at what they do. Only those so blind they cannot see can defend them.
Steve - yep Rudd would never sell his soul would he ? Now, about never "lurching to the right" or "the greatest moral challenge of our time", well they must have been apparitions.
TommyP - as you've told us many times that you never read the Murdoch press, how would you know about its contents ?
It's not blind devotion on Hacka's part TommyP - there is a malicious cunning there that belies mere cluelessness....
ACTU President Ged Kearney trying her best at the National Press Club to bring back the "Work choices" scaremongering campaign, she admits they know the word still resonates with their members, admitting it's a scaremongering tactic, when questioned on her position that productivity is in good shape in Australia, saying that it's at the highest levels since the 1960's – tells you all you need to know about what to expect from the ACTU and how clear it is they a dinosaur.
Of course, regardless of whether the Liberals bring back WorkChoices, they have always wanted business to have the right to hire and fire at will. The principal is there. It's in their DNA.
Tone, we are obviously on the opposite end of the spectrum in our political views and I respect you right to vote however you wish, but even you have to admit, there is a level of productivity that needs to be agreed to in order for the country not to end up like Greece (with all due respect to our Greek friends) what's your view on a delinquent employee who is a poison pill in a business, what should be the right of business owners in your view please.
Rubbish.......you just want work choices bought back under another name just like she explained Tony is going to do.
Indeed, heaven forbid a business owner has the right to sack staff. I mean they're only the ones taking all the risks. Why not let under performing staff just continue on their merry way costing their employer time and money.
Dinosaurs, hmmm. A bit like failed restaurateurs, eh?
Tone, it is one thing creating job security for people working for large corporations (with the whole HR machinery those corporations have). It's a whole different ball-game for small business being unable to fire a non-productive person. I've had one employee who after a messy divorce started drinking and taking drugs. It obviously affected his work performance and we challenged him on it. When no improvement eventuated and he was hospitalised, we proceeded to terminate his employment (as his wage accounted for a large portion of our budget and we needed that extra pair of hands). Fast forward 5 months, and we were forced into mediation with WorkCover as he claimed workplace stress has caused his illness. Amazingly (but apparently not unusual), WorkCover sided with the employee and we were forced into a massive settlement agreement, because it was now deemed unfair dismissal. It nearly killed our business and added enormous stress, a significant legal bill and increased WorkCover premiums. The point of me telling you all this is that the right to hire and fire should not be a right that is totally frowned upon. If you go visit any small business owner that has had more than 30 employees over more than a decade - then they can all tell you horror stories about employees abusing the system. So if we need to improve the economic performance of this country and bring back the spirit of entrepreneurship, then laws around "hire and fire" needs to be a little more balanced. I am not advocating work choices, but I am advocating a system where it is possible to remove a person from your business if they are adding no value - and possible to do so without costs that can destroy your business in the process.
Peter, if an employee is a 'poison pill' s/he should be warned and if no improvement is evident, dismissed. But if an employer wants to sack someone because of race religion, hair colour, gender, political, opinion or sexual orientation, or to make way to employ a friend or relative, that's different. It's even worse if, as sometimes happens, an employer decides to sack someone for refusing a sexual advance. No system precludes dismissal for incompetence or dishonesty.
Lets's start by Abbott dropping the tax free threshold from $18000 to $6000 for Low income earners. That'll help pay for 1.5% reduction on company tax.A 15% tax on low income earners super. Part of Work Choices in disguise.
It's a fact, I will ask you the same question that Tone is avoiding to answer, what right should an employer (let's say someone who runs a business with 6-8 employees as an example) the owner has mortgaged his property to finance the business and therefore has all his assets at risk, what rights should he (the business owner) have if he has a delinquent employee.
There is plenty of room for employers to rid themselves of delinquent employees already. It is done every day.
We need laws to protect employees from delinquent employers.
Oh sorry, didn't notice you there.
Um. I will say that as an employer myself, the current system is not great, but as someone who believes in the Australian ideal of a fair go, I don't believe hire and fire is fair either.
We do have mechanisms to get rid of someone, but only after they have ongoing demonstrated bad behaviour, not just behaviour that an employer doesn't like today.
Perhaps an employer will find that you don't have similar political beliefs to them. Is that a legitimate reason for dismissal? I say no.
Taking drugs, on the other hand, is instant dismissal from me and I will stand up in court and defend my actions if that happens.
@Peter G - precisely on the money with that comment about the owner of a small business taking all the risks. When a business goes under in Australia, the only one suffering and losing their home is the owner. All staff is covered by the GEARS scheme. Australia has a massive problem with the way small business is funded - especially when it comes to technology start-ups. Venture capital in this country is a joke, getting an R&D grant from the government takes longer and requires more paperwork than undertaking the R&D itself and the personal risk to the business owners of bankruptcy means you really need to believe in your dream (or be stupid) to be prepared to take the substantial risk involved. Small business (the biggest employer in this country) is strangled by regulation, a non-competitive banking sector and a total disregard of focus from the politicians. If we can get the small business sector fired up again, the budget may just get back in the black. Sadly I don't trust Labor to do that, because their union dominance means that they only ever deal with big business.
When was the last time Ged had to refinance her home, or go without any pay just to pay her employees?
Heeeeeeeeeeeeeello Peter
The LNP are being lobbied to change IR back to Workchoices (dont you love the irony in its name) era if you dont believe me check this out
The train has left the station Peter G toot toot
Bratman, don't disagree with anything you said, and if you read the words of Art, it says it all and why there needs to be a fair system, you won't get any argument there and I feel for Art, as have been through the same thing and it's a nightmare and a burden on the family, everyone suffers. Running a business should be seen as playing an important part of the community and the contribution you make, and sure, if it's a success you do ok but let me tell you, having done that, you earn every penny because unless you haven't done it, you won't for a minute understand the sacrifices you need to make.
@Tone - I appreciate that you can see my point of view. I also do not believe in the right to fire someone for a political opinion or other such nonsense. But when it comes to drugs (as in my example), the problem is clearly one of proof. In our case, the drug use was obvious as was the alcohol. But I don't think you can just drag an employee off to a drug test on a random basis. No proof, no sympathy from the judge - and 5 months down the track you have no way of revisiting the issue. A friend of mine had a related problem. An employee tried to climb a rack in his warehouse to steal some goods from the top shelf. He slipped and fell down. He was fired for theft, but WorkCover deemed it a workplace accident and forced my friend to pay his wages for a considerable amount of time. Hardly something that could be considered a "fair go" (if you look at it with the employers eyes)...
Regardless of your political opinions, I feel for you Art. I wouldn't want to wish that on anyone. I have had a dodgy employee myself but have managed to escape unscathed, for now.
Hey Buff Bill, thanks for your comment, its comments like yours and Johno's that put a smile on my face, you try the desperate spin on IR laws and its yesterday's slogan Buff, in fact, I suggest you stick to it as your trump card line, because most informed voters know it's just further evidence that labor will do or say absolutely anything to win the election, the train has left the station Buff, but I don't think it's coming to a station near you.
Great one liner form Tony Abbott in Adelaide today, he said "the more we see of Kevin Rudd, the more nostalgic we become about Julie Gillard"
great stuff Tony, I say call Bill bring back Julia
Can we bring back Malcolm?
Of course he wants Julia back. He would have won if he had not pushed so hard to get rid of her.
Unfortunately for him it backfired. Luckily for us even if Kevin loses, we might still avoid MPs like Diaz.
So he really is a dill, he couldn't even get her name right. Poor Tony is acting shell shocked.
Well that is that, I'm sick and tired of chopping wood everyday at 71 years of age so my wife and I can keep warm at night, due to power bills being unaffordable.
I may change my mind not to vote at all and vote for Palmer, but I will wait to read the fine print first, Mr Palmer. After 71 years I have come to the conclusion that Australian politicians are more or less a despicable lot.
My power bill is only $250 a quarter and I'm warm at night. If you can't afford that there must be something wrong.......there are ways to keep it low which have no immediate or direct relevance to any political party or election.
Yes, vote for a billionaire miner, because billionaire miners always do what you want, not what they want. It's how they got to be billionaires. <sarcasm/>
Agreed JT
My bill is around the same; the only thing annoying about mybill is the misleading NSW scare slogan regarding the Carbon price component.
hilarious that you think 250 a quarter is cheap in the first place.
And since I got free pink batts installed in my roof (thanks Kev!) my electricity bill is lower than it used to be.
So my bill should be the same as yours, right? Had any lessons in logic lately have we? You have a gas supply do you? How convenient that is? Live in the hills where it is usually 7 degrees colder than on the flats do we?
I despair for you, JT I really do.
David D
Re the carbon tax on your electricity bill remember you are paying GST on the carbon tax as it is included in the tariff per KWH before GST is added.
The carbon tax is not listed as a separate charge only the GST is.
No PeterA they weren't free, a working Australian paid for them for you. You know the one's that had the intelligence to put insulation in their ceilings (and pay for it) ahead of purchasing cigarettes or playing poker machines. Ahhh priorities - the good old days!
Terry I would be happier if the Carbon price claim on my bill was extended to acknowledge that it is fully compensated
As it is it is simply misleading.
pen and genghis.........a lesson in logic......instead of just complaining about electricity prices, do something practical to achieve the lowest price per quarter that you can.....seems logical not irrational. I believe that at $250 per quarter.... that figure is affordable by any household pensioner or not and that price has no direct relevance to any political party. Logic says that if the price goes up by 10% then I somehow reduce my use of power by 10% and still have the same lifestyle. It can be done and its not POLITICAL.
don't despair for me pen...I have things worked out quite well and can take responsibility for lowering costs rather than just blame everything on earth on the ALP. I'm not winging.......I just despair at the cut throat/uncompassionate society that the LNP lot will force on us.
$250 a quarter! My brother lives in Yogyakarta.
Family of 3, no heating (obviously) and no aircon.
He pays at least $400 a quarter.
No coal subsidies in Indonesia.
"everyday. pen, crikey it must get cold in summer where you live.
Critical/lateral thinking is what you need to do. How about buying a splitter, heater with a bigger fire box, employ a fit teenager to chop a bit, insulate, put on another jumper. grow quick growing trees for pollarding aka sugar gums. Put on some (more) panels and feed back to the grid.
It's a lame reason to vote for Clive. Clive's credentials aren't exactly green. But you might get a discount on coal if you join up.
"1:02pm: Oh Clive - where would we be without you? The Palmer United Party wants to be all things to all people. Pensioners for one. It has promised them an $150 a fortnight should it, cough, form government.!
Clive will do better than people think, this government and the libs are no better have a total disregard for pensioner, many who barely pay for electricity bills. Whilst Kev goes round high fiving kids he dismisses and has total disregard for pensioners. Disgusting and strange - for as a kokoda survivor(cough) you would think he had an ounce of respect
Is Kevin trying to scaremonger or is he not aware that the GST can only be increased if all states agree, Federal Government can't put up the GST, and what's with Albo meeting Craig Thomson for a beer, suppose they just discussing the pro's and con's.
Albo is a numbers man so it's either twisting Thommo's arm for preferences or Thommo's the new Messiah ready to come down from Mangrove Mountain and play ball again for the ALP..
More to come from Pynes few glasses of wine with Asby. A bit more serious don't you think. Or do you have the Pyne don't recall memory.
What I don't get is how Labor ask us to trust them when we have seen 70 frontbenchers in six years. Three reshuffles in 2013 alone.
They have had five assistant treasurers in six years and two Treasurers. Six small business ministers, four immigration ministers, six ministers for housing, six ministers for Centrelink, four trade ministers.
They've had nine different education ministers in six years. They have had four higher education ministers in four months. They have had three prime ministers in six years. This is ridiculous, that is not the normal way the country is run.
They then say they are the best party to Govern our nation. Can someone tell me how??
Weren't you around in the Holt, McEwan, Gorton, McMahon era?
Apart from Gorton who was Prime Minister for 4 years, these Prime Ministers lasted 2 years each.
Of course the Cabinet changed every time the PM changed.
Both Rudd and Gillard were Prime Minister for three years each.
They certainly faired better than the Liberal PMs between Menzies and Whitlam!!
I have really wondered why people have carried on about Labor changing leaders. It was the thing to do by the Liberals between1966 and 1972.
To WHYALLA WIPEOUT: The problem with your analysis is this >>> Treasury is full of triple degree, doctorate holding specialists, bureaucrats and support acts yet they can't and don't get their narrations, forecasts and analyses right.
So, I say this in reference to your medical anology that "the doctor with three degrees in medicine has not always been right" >> in Treasury's case, they have never been right in recent years, and arguably for much of the RGR generation. Indeed, it comes eventually full circle to where one has to question the competency of those who are providing the diagnosis. In Treasury's case, it's inefficiency, poor forecasting and woeful modelling that's on display, not repeated late nights in Emergency or Triage.
The Economic Update debunked the Budget entirely within <12 weeks, yet Treasury's update said that the 2013 deficit would still come in at $19.377B for 30 June 2013, wholly unchanged from the May budget figures. In fact, The economic Update changed everything else, yet left all (that is "ALL") of the figures referable to 30 June 2013 unchanged (as between the Budget, pre-year end by 7+ weeks, and the Economic Update, post year end, by 5 weeks). A case of mis-diagnosed? Or, of carelessness? Or, of not knowing what else to do? Or, of fudging the figures? Or, of coveringup? Or, of hiding the detail from public view? That's why the Economic Update is itself crafted from a faiy shaky foundation, expertly diagnosed however by these triple degree doctors from Treasury (to further draw from your medical analogy).
Grant, as all credible economists have been saying, this has been an impossible period to do forecasts in. The Treasury grossly underestimated the receipts from the start of the Mining boom as well in the late Howard years.
But whether you want to accept Treasury forecasts or not, it still puts this country in great jeopardy when the likely next Government of this country (according to the polls and the bookies) are not prepared to put any serious figures on the table and allegedly reputable journalists are letting them get away with weasel words like 'we have confidence there will be offsets in the medium term'.
I am worried sick about how little serious scrutiny the current Opposition's economic credentials are getting and how the cream of Australia's political journalists are so easily fobbed off, whether under orders from a well-known US citizen of Australian birth or just because it is safer to stay with the pack.
Now are Australians going to give their precious votes for economic snake oil because they don't think the doctors are any good, whatever the underlying circumstances, or will they at least get to match like with like, dollar for dollar?
Appears to be a lot of panic setting in from the Labor camp on here today, negative personal political cluster bombs thriving, a sign confidence in the ALP's campaign is waning?
Time to change the captain again, quick get Bill Shorten on the phone - lets Bring back Julia!
gotta counter the propaganda of the LNP election campaign tim.....wonder who the best LNP person to be Minister of Propaganda woulld be if they got elected....someone from the far right of the party perhaps? There's a lot to choose from.
No wonder they are panicking, the bettings blowing out by the day, Labor now at $4.00 and the Coalition at $1.30 wonder how many of the rusted on Labor supporters would put their money where their mouths are!
I've just done a quick cruise around some sites and it's pro Labor everywhere. Maybe it's Kev's American hit squad at work.
Yes the SMH team are even zipping over to The Australian site - the paper they state they never read LOL - desperately trying to shore up the credibility of Himself and his party, who I have to say we don't hear a lot from these days. Has Rudd Mk11 gone back to his controlling ways already ?! From what we hear there are already rumblings in the ranks with the cowardly caucus being concerned with his performance and reminding him that no matter how comfortable he feels with them - schoolkids don't vote. Thank god the circus only runs for another month.
Paul, not sure what you mean by saying you cruised round a few sites and it's all pro-Rudd, if you're talking about the betting market's, centrebet, sporting bet etc, perhaps you misunderstand how it works, if they say Labor is at $4.00 and the Coalition is at $1.30 that means that Labor are not in good shape Paul, it means they are very long odds and unlikely to win the election, and not so surprising quite frankly, given the governments performance.
So you want to blame the Coalition for a GST increase do you? Here's one that you overlooked:
Labor approved doubling of electricity tariffs from 14 to 28 cents per KWh. Australia consumes 255 billion KWh of electricity annually. Fourteen cents x 255 billion = a $35.7 billion annual increase.
The GST component = $3.57 billion. Labor so you let that 6.5% increase in GST slide by you, hmm?
Should I mention the GST increases by gas tariff increases?
The GST rate didn't increase. For someone who claims to hate misleading politicians, you're very happy to do it yourself.
Electricity price rises are indeed outrageous, but they're approved at state government level. Do you know who decried the "gold-plating" practice that has allowed the power companies to raise their prices like that? Julia Gillard.
No, get the facts right. The states and Commonwealth, through the Council of Australian Governments and the Ministerial Council on Energy, set the rules that require the Australian Energy Regulator ensures electricity prices reflect the cost of supply, including the cost increases from the carbon tax and the green energy fund set in place by Labor.
Don't worry yourself. Pen is a fact free zone.
Joe has changed his mind again and is now saying that interest rate decreases are a sign of the economy not doing so well............well he doesn't have to worry because business loan interest rates and credit card interest rates hasn't decreased...........this must mean the economy is going like a dream........
So you want to blame the Coalition for a GST increase do you? Here is one that you overlooked:
Labor approved the doubling of electricity tariffs from 14 to 28 cents per KWh. Australia consumes 255 billion KWh of electricity annually. Fourteen cents x 255 billion = $35.7 billion annual increase.
The GST component = $3.57 billion annual increase. Labor let that one slide by you, hmm?
ALP increased tax free threshold to $18000 from $6000. Did you miss that one as compensation?
@ jt 12:38ish. This was not compensation at all as many tax offsets or rebates were either removed or made harder to get making it the smokescreen we've come to expect from Labor. Did you not read the fine print?
janey....don't make me LOL.....if you are not paying less tax and hence have more disposable income to pay for higher bills etc because of the tax free threshold increase...then go and find another accountant....if this is not compensation then what is?
You are obviously not a pensioner otherwise you would understand that what you are citing comes with smoke and mirrors. The only relief from tariff costs that I receive is a small reduction once year, which is swallowed up by the GST component.
Oh but laugh you did. Handy link below for your viewing pleasure. LOL.
JT, back in 2011, the tax threshold was $6,000, with a 15% rate on income exceeding that threshold. LITO however also applied (Low income tax offset) at $1500 through to $37,000. The the Government came along and tripled the tax threshold to $18,200, but in doing so, increased the first marginal tax band rate to 19%, and reduced LITO to $445 through to $37,000.
So, now if you have a low income of (for example) $30,000, then back in 2011, you would have been assessed for PAYG at $3,600, but when this was offset against LITO, the net tax would have reduced to $2,100.
Now, in 2013, using the same example, taxwould be assessed at $2,280, but when offset against LITO, this would reduce to net tax of $1,835.
The overall reduction between the years therefore is $265, NWS the tax threshold having triple under RGR.
Smoke and mirrors -- smoke and mirrors.
There has been some marginal gain, but nowhere near as much as either you or Labor would otherwise seek to suggest.
And then, once you get above $37,000, the marginal rate increases to 32.5% (previously, 30%).
"ALP increased tax free threshold to $18000 from $6000. Did you miss that one as compensation?"
You are the one who needs a new accountant.
If you get no compensation from the Govt for the Carbon Tax you receive no extra income form the increase in the tax free threshold as the ALP adjusted the tax rates to ensure that those who got no carbon compensation didn't receive extra from the increase in the threshold.
Pensioners have never been given a fair increase in their pension by any political party over the last 25 years. Over the last 25 years I have recognised that fact and worked very hard to provide a self funded retirement in future and not rely on the pension. Any self funded retirees are now living off low interest rates but can pay very low tax related to the tax free threshold increase. The pension is in a different category along with Newstart and will probably remain lower under LNP.
What if I had a low income of $18000? Would I be better off with a tax free threshold of $18200 or $6000? Perhaps you may like to re calculate to see if I could afford a $300 pa increase in my electricity bill as compensation?
under your figures grant.......if I earned $18000 in 2011 I would pay $1800 in tax, but now in 2013 I pay zero, zilch, no tax. ie I am $1800 better off and have $1800 to use as compensation. This would especially apply to many living off fixed interest and paying tax on the interest. Its called compensation.
Maybe Rudd needs to debate Smooth FM's Glenn Daniel as David Bradbury couldn't put 2 words together about interest rates - a bit of a worry for Australia - after all he is assistant treasurer!
that is one funny, but very worrying interview, How Bradbury is such a position is one of Australias great mysteries.
David Bradbury is the Steven Bradbury of politics. He only ended up assistant treasurer because a huge chunk of cabinet resigned.
Does the show pony Dudd only do schools these day?
he likes telling kids how is a kokoda survivor
TA is going from factory to factory hoping one would finally say the Carbon Tax has actually affected business.
Jackie you can bet your life that Rudd won't put a foot on a university campus?
Rudds gotta remember adults vote not kids
So factory's actually converse with politicians in your neck of the woods, heh?
Great syntax?
Pen, your correction (of sense, rather than syntax, actually) is most appropriate, but spoiled somewhat by the apostrophe in an attempted plural. Too much wood chopping?
Notice how Rudd only ventures into schools (the younger the kids the better), shopping centres and government funded projects for his announcements and photo opportunities (bit like Gillard before him), but it is only Abbott who also goes into factories, manufacturing plants and small businesses?
Pretty good indicator of Labor's economic credentials and how business view this Labor government.
Sums it up perfectly.
Tony goes for babies (see photo on this page).....more on his verbal skills level.....school age children are far too advanced. Someone in one of those manufacturing process industries might give Tony a job after September.....the only forward thinking I can detect from him.
Yes, Rudd and Labor are supporting the future of this country through better education and other services.
Abbott believes in giving free advertising to Liberal Party supporters who open up their businesses to photo ops and glib attacks on the government.
Tim....My understanding is he needs to use up all those Hi-vis. vests Toll Holdings has donated. Well considering he was quoted a businesses carbon charge at $4.8 million the other day when it was in fact $500,000 he needs to spend more time reading and developing policy than playing Jack of all trades Master of none.
I remind all of experts here that it was Labor under Gillard who announced a reduction in company tax. So you can can hardly scream about Abbott stance on company tax.
and it was Keating who first introduced the idea of a GST a very good part of tax reform. If the ALP first mentioned a company tax break, then the LNP have just copied good economic policy from the ALP
We can when the result is another $5 billion in the red. Labor promised that before we had a revenue shortfall in the budget.
It's the Liberals promising it in the current economic climate that is the disgrace.
The Liberals are now $55 billion in the red. Someone's going to have to pay for it. It'll be all of us, not his rich mates.
and it was the libs and greens who knocked it back.
Why? Because....just because.....um...just because they could.
Same logic used now by libs.
*It will be better under us just because it is* - which does not work as a pickup line. They tend to screw things badly
JT, after the GST was introduced, the Labor Party realised just how regressive the GST actually was, and so they declared that it was regressive and that they would never increase it. There have never ever been statements like that from the Liberals. Every now and then the Liberals accidently let slip that their game plan is to eventually increase the GST.
Tone, the Libs are $55b in the red? These days, your mob gets more in the red $1b per week it seems.
tone....Keating/ Hawke knew the GST was regressive back then, but they also saw how it benefitted the average joe blo in time because it would replace the regressive and high sales tax. It made very good sense also to not include food which we will have to give credit to Howard that he didn't also include food. I don't imagine the far right of the LNP who control Abbott will not include food in future.
Dream on JT, it wasn't the Coalition that forced the exclusion of foot, it was the Democrats. The Democrats were meant to block the legislation if it was bad for us. They let it through and it killed their party.
Sorry tone...the gst is very good economics and was originally part of keatings/Hawkes big economic reform agendas...they should have introduced it rather than Libs. That way they could have had the record for all major economic reforms but now the LNP have one, but they copied that one. Can't think of any other they have implemented and I certainly can't see any coming out of the LNP now.
Hey Pen, good point, but then if we use your logic for that argument, should we not bother placing any Kudos on Rudd for now bringing back the Pacific solution that was in place when he came to power and removed and has now put back in, interesting to hear your comment on that one.
yea Rick, the Coalition only have a $50 billion black hole. It's bigger than the cost of the NBN. That's all. And now they are promising another $5 billion to cut company tax. The Liberal Party are frauds.
And when is either side going to mention Affordable Housing, Housing stress or Homelessness? Or are they going to sweep these growing issues under the carpet as "too hard"?
Doug Cameron about summed up those issues on Q&A. Checkout iView.
The opposition don't even have a policy on homelessness etc. Maybe they don't vote as they don't have an address, so they don't matter.
What the Fibs mean with this company tax reduction, is that by making it easier for owners of wealth to make even more money, everyone can have a job.
It's just those jobs will be at the Oz equivalence of Bangladeshi sweat shop rates of pay – by that I don't mean $2 a day, but - if you are not one of lucky professionals with a gift of the gab and a propensity to want to rip people off - for you to just earn enough to pay rent and buy food – for you to have no disposable income.
In other words you get 1) No benefit in being an Australian 2) No benefit in productivity increases over the last 20 years and c) No benefit whatsoever from the resources such as mining Australia has.
Already we low pay employees are being undermined by massive levels of immigration. This is something both parties use immigration for – a majority end up in jobs at the low end, the servant end, but as conditions are better than where they came from, they know no better, so they accept low rates, don't join unions and don't complain about abusive employers.
This is the true class warfare, that Howard created.
It would be in Rudd's best interest to see unemployment rise, as he is likely to lose the election, resign from politics and join his wife in growing the family business of providing unemployment support to the unemployed, funded by the tax payer dollars.
The service that Centrelink should and could provide at half the cost.
With his payout, family business in full swing, he will most likely get himself some half baked diplomatic role and continue the travelling and wasting more taxpayers money.
Will he ever do anything for this nation ??? Or is it Me ME ME
You give the banks too much credit. They are profitable because they are protected within a ologopolistic market where the customers have few viable alternatives and they are able to extract amazing economic rents. They prove this market power by not having been tocuhed by recent economic events, unlike their business and consumer customers. One gouorp that I bet will not see a reduction in interest rates is credit card holders. with most Australians living with some form of revolving domestic debt the banks are laughing at an interest margin of over 14%.
Nice one, very funny.
Unfortunately, it just means "trust us" as we are the honest growups and the only ones who can reduce the D&D (debt and deficit). They are still hoping to slip into "gummint" before anyone notices, but the next 4.5 weeks will show them the folly of that strategy....
Hockey is doing a fantastic job wrecking ABBO's chance of winning.
Joe's 3 word SLOGAN - I don't believe.....
Joe's thinks lower interest rates is not great.
Joe's GST admission is a ticking time bomb.
Joe's robbing Peter to pay Paul by slugging 'BIG' business to fund the parental leave scheme and then promise lower company taxes appears contradictory.
With a Secret Weapon like Joe; who needs enemies.
Time to place Joe under wraps.
Cannot wait for more double talk when Chris and Joe square off on a economic debate unless Joe renege just as ABBO's reneging on debating his Opponent.
terry: the states will NEVER say no to a GST rise because it will potentially benefit them and they don't have to carry any political fallout. THere's no barrier there.
Quote from the LNP press statement on the company tax cut policy:
"We are confident that the company tax cut will deliver some partially offsetting benefits to the Budget bottom line over the medium term."
Are they taking us all for ignorant fools?
Whether you want to believe the Treasury forecasts or not, they are still a legitimate and reasoned attempt to explain AND QUANTIFY where the offsets are coming from for Government spending.
But the Opposition is just proposing an airy, fairy, nonsense offset and they cannot even put a dollar figure to it.
And not one of the highly trained journalists following this circus has commented. Pathetic.
you really have to laugh at these campaign events at factories and schools. They are so pointless and yet the travelling media pack have to soak up every single second. I love seeing a cameraman in a hairnet! I mean really what's the point?
Company Tax is set at 30% and feeds wholly into future dividend imputation /franking credits. Any shortfall between frankig credits and personal tax rates is topped up at the personal tax level. So, for as long as thereare 100% dividend payout ratios in play, the change is one of timing, not amount.
Of lesser value (to business, but not to Government) however are the current and carry forward tax losses which would now reduce from 30% to 28.5%.
Equally so, losses previously reflected at 30% would, in going forward only be clawed back /allowed for at 28.5%.
The question therefore abounds as to what real extent there is any real or enduring funding gap, as with dividend imputation and carry forward tax losses, and increasingly higher dividend payout ratios, the real gap is much, much less.
After all, if someone on 40% has franking credits @30%, they then pay an extra 10% in personal income tax. Fast forward this to 28.5%, then the franking counts for 28.5% and personal income tax counts for 11.5%. Therefore, higher personal contributions apply at the back end.
Great that Tony Abbott will take questions from social media - does this count?
How and when will Kevin Rudd pay off the $300bn of debt accumulated under the ALP Govt of the last 6 years?
When asked about consumption taxes, Bill Gates said that there is only so much one can consume. Add to this the fact that many of the rich are able to claim GST back on any purchases made through company structures, and you will realise that the tax burden is clearly pushed on to the middle and lower classes.
When a rich person actually does buy an item, they are paying considerably less tax than a poor person as a percentage of their income.
Say a rich person earning $300,000 per year wants to buy a $60,000 Holden. The tax on the $60,000 Holden would be $6000. That's 2% of their income.
Now take a poor person earning $20,000 per year who saves and saves and saves and wants to buy the same Holden. The poor person would pay 30% of their income as tax.
The GST is a regressive tax. It shifts the tax burden from the rich to the middle class and makes the poor suffer considerably.
The poor person should buy a car commensurate with his or her income. What's wrong with that? What god gave the poor person to buy anything above their ability to pay?
If you earn less, you have to adjust your expectations.
If you earn more, you can afford me. Because you EARNED your money.
Actually, the rich person should just pay their fair share of tax, you know, due to the fact that society has given them all the opportunities they have to become rich. Taxing income is fair. Replacing it with GST is regressive.
Tone, aren't the "rich" paying higher personal tax rates? They're already doing their share on money they EARNED.
Do you know what "earned" means? It means they deserve it because they worked or invested for it. You make it seem as if it is a sin to earn money.
Everyone should pull their weight when it comes to tax. The rich are already pulling their weight through paying higher taxes.
And so they should Fiona.
This is tax we're talking about, not income. They can make as much income as they like, but in this country, if they earn income, they pay a proportion of income to the tax man, like everyone else.
It's a fair system, as people who have been given the opportunity to earn the income should pay for the system that allowed them to earn it.
Fiona (2.21pm) - you might want to amend the 1st sentence of your final paragraph! And on a more serious note, the proposition that earniing more is purely due to working harder or more productively, that amount of faith in market price for labour is a little dubious. Does someone short-selling shares or playingthe foreign exchange market 'contribute' more than than a child-care worker, a nurse or a construction labourer? Good luck to them, but there's nothing wrong with expecting a return to society through paying a bigger proportion in taxes.
Oh thanks. Meant to write, "more", not "me". Haha.
So, Tone, you admit that the rich are already paying more taxes than the poor. Thanks.
Since people already pay more taxes the more they earn - the money they spend has already been taxed according to their earning capacity. There is thus no reason to increase their taxes with a sliding scale consumption tax.
bratman, anyone who places his or her money at risk investing in shares, even if shorting, deserves to get the rewards for that risk. If shorting is economically bad, why doesn't the government ban it? That's right - it provides liquidity to the market.
The examples of low-paid workers are lowly paid for a reason - society doesn't think they deserve to be paid more.
Oh No. Wayne Swan has added his two bobs worth.
Someone tell him he is not an asset to Labor
Thanks for that one, good to have some light relief
It is interesting to note the current state of play on where Rudd, and his crew, have been caught lying in this campaign. So far we have had false allegations about GST increases, lies about the Nauru resettlement of refugees, lies about the alleged $70 billion budget blackhole in policy that hasnt been released and therefore cant be assessed and lies about the LNP NBN costs. Not bad for a few days eh? Clearly someone to trust..... NOT
Classic Coalition denial and lies.
The GST increase is not a lie. It will happen. If it happened when a previous Opposition leader said 'never, ever', then it will certainly happen when the current (don't believe me unless it is written in blood) says 'there are no planS'.
If the Opposition is not $70 billion short of paying for its promises, what is it? $20 billion, $100 billion, nil?
We don't know because they won't produce costings. You may not trust the Treasury estimates but at least they are something to test.
The Opposition's answer to the Public Service estimate is to say 'trust us'. That is like not going to the cancer specialist because she has not been able to save all her patients and going to the snake oil 'alternative cure' salesman instead.
Abbott said they won't raise it today but then went on to say it will be "on the table" as part of their tax reforms if election.
He can't be trusted and that came from his own mouth too.
Neal, he actually said he won't raise it this coming term, but may put it to the people at the next election. You can't be fairer than that, can you?
At least he consults and asks the electorate to decide. We decide on whether we want to increase the GST or not.
Our 4 major banks are the most profitable in the world they are so because they invest at times of maximising profit? Are you suggesting that under Labor fiscal policy of uncertainty they can invest wisely?
Hacka, Murdoch has power only if fools listen to him. Murdoch is not god, even if LNP supporters and you think he is. Labor supporters and swinging voters are a little more savvy than that.
It is amazing that people here complain that Murdoch influences people, he doesn't, Murdoch influences sheep. The people of the bible are described by the writers of the bible as sheep, they follow the flock and the flock follows the shepherd (bishop). The people of the bible were simple thinking folk living simple lives in simple technological times. One would like to believe that we are not so simple minded as those of the bible, however, if some are influenced by headlines of "KICK THIS MOB OUT" without ascertaining the facts to make a considered decision then what are they?
Scenario: GST up?? Vic and WA have already asked LNP to widen scope of GST to food...LNP say they will hold an enquiry into it.....probably led by Peter Costello. Any guesses to the outcome? Business pays lower tax but pays levy for wealthy female parental leave.....business loses, workers lose.
It's a total joke that Abbott and Hockey are reducing the company tax rate when Multi-nationals in Australia are allowed to take their profits overseas without paying tax!!!!
They didn't say they had 'no intention'. They said they had 'no plans'. There is a big difference even though both are weasel terms.
From the party that gave you never, ever, can you believe either version?
Heard Wong on the ABC this morning asking exactly how Mr Abbott planned to pay back all the debt. Er... Penny.. what's your plan love.. your budgets aren't worth a pinch of the proverbial and the ALP created all the debt. Not a single surplus Penny. Obviously Abbott's fault. It reminds me of the QLD election when Bligh effectively asked Newman to explain how he was going to do anything when there was actually no money left and huge debt.
We know what the Government plan is. It was published last Friday by the Treasurer.
Even if you don't want to believe the Treasury figures, they are better than nothing, film-flam, and figure-free guesses of the never-never, which is all that the Opposition is offering to us.
Apparently the view of people like you is similar to the sick person who trusts the snake oil salesman because the doctor with three degrees in medicine has not always been right.
ABBO's Baby Kissing Stunt to attract voters backfired on him.
Congratulations to the kid who has sense to see through this shallow attempt to grab more votes.
Not surprise that ABBO's Look does not appeal to the young just as his policies are unattractive to intelligent voters.
It's like Rudds lie he keeps parroting that the Coalition have a 70 billion dollar black hole. It was proved incorrect. But he keeps parroting it anyway.
If the GST was increased so would the increase of fraud. Fraud can only be stopped by including items that are GST free such as education, health costs, and fresh food. However if the GST included food it would raise about $6 billion taking total receipts to $56 billion, but then those on low incomes would have to compensated. If GST includes health and education basically all one is doing is collecting the additional tax in one hand and paying out with the other hand as these services are run by state governments. In addition the states would have to cut other taxes such as stamp duty, because the states are already double dipping.
The other problem is GST receipts have been falling in recent years as savings increase and household expenditure decreases due to the GFC effect.
The Fibs will say OK, we've removed the non event Carbon Tax and as the ALP already raised the tax free threshold to cater for the CT, we will let you keep that, but give you the barest minimum, a farcical adjustment to rates to cater for the extra 5% GST and the new items under GST.
In other words they'll lie and cheat the low income earners, as is their fundamental policy.
Accusing others of fibbing and then making things up yourself seems a tad hypocritical, don't you think?
Meanwhile good old Rupes gets the ball rolling by running with his Wabbott's and hunting with his hound dogs.
Congratulations to Stumbles Hockey and Mumbles Abbott for clearly displaying the logos of their *sponsors* at press conferences. Seeing the names of these companies helps me refine down my list of acceptable product suppliers.
David, you are going to be going pretty hungry and thirsty if you are boycotting Australian food and beverage manufacturing companies who support the Coalition - which is pretty much all of them. Don't despair, you can always buy all the expensive imported stuff if you want to run your one man protest against the Coalition.
home brew,
home made stew,
only one leg,
only one shoe.
as you probably surmised,
the missing leg gives me a distinct left lean.
unlike TA, no forecast of humble pie on my menu
Abbott claims his tax cut is funded from $17 billion of savings already announced.
I'm pretty sure that he never explained what those $17 billion of savings were, just that he claimed he was going to make them.
If he had already explained them- and not used them to fund other promises- then it should be easy to remind us all of what they are, right?
This whole idea that the Coalition can manage an economy is turning into a real joke. Any economic credentials the Liberals had left with Peter Costello. They have no one left. That's why the Liberals can be $50 billion in the red and still promise another $5 billion of waste. They don't think they need to be credible anymore. They think people will just believe everything they say. What a bunch of frauds.
Apparently, the offsetting savings are all baked into a magic pudding.
Most likely social security reductions, streamlined public service, reduction in infrastructure spend, higher consumption taxes etc.
The economic credentials of the Libs are starting to crumble, just as Labor are hoping. "Trust us" won't be enough, I'm afraid.
Listening to labor people lecture the coalition on economic responsibility is akin to the captain of the Concordia lecturing on boat safety. Neither can be taken seriously as both have massive credibility issues, especially after labor lost another $15 billion just months after the last budget.
That's my point kp - neither the Liberals nor Labor are any good at economic management. The difference is that the Liberals have every intention of going ahead and screwing the general population anyway and rewarding the rich.
There's a difference between the budget changing because the economy is doing worse than expected and flat out having a hole in your budget to start off with.
Australia can't do anything about the fact that its major trading partners are doing worse than expected, and the ALP can't do anything about business confidence in Australia being worse than in places like Italy (you can thank the media and the Coalition's scare campaigns for that).
@tone, I was talking about the captain of the concordia and labor being the same, not the liberals and labor.
This election is not about Krudd the celebrity, it is (as a friend told me) about what labor has done to the country and what the coalition can do for Australia. And let's face it, labor has economically vandalised the country.
The coalition are the safer hands.
You would appear not to have done a lot of reading lately. John Howard and his government have outspend any other government since the 2nd World War.
@DWN, spending money is not the problem, wastful spending however is a massive problem.
The reason tax revenues were high during the Howard years was because business was booming due to the government spending money in the right places to stimulate the economy via business.
I also read somewhere where Andrew Bolt had a different opinion to you backed up by facts also from the IMF - does this mean we are all wrong, or that just because it was written, does not make it so.
I would trust a coalition government to spend money wisely to stimulate the economy which in turn helps to grow jobs. Labor knows how to spend money, just not wisely and certainly not for the long term.
Mr Abbott is being asked where the money to fund the company tax cut would come from.
It's in the kitty, he says.
Does this mean his cat ate the money?
Thanks for that one, good to have some light relief
Nice one, very funny.
Unfortunately, it just means "trust us" as we are the honest growups and the only ones who can reduce the D&D (debt and deficit). They are still hoping to slip into "gummint" before anyone notices, but the next 4.5 weeks will show them the folly of that strategy....
It's only $5b apparently, so why worry? Labor doesn't tell you that they go further in the red by $1b per week, do they?
Labor doesn't ask you when it goes in the red $1b per week, do they?
The Coalition has already said that the
will only do the tax cut when they can afford it. That's a whole lot better than Labor who does things even when they can't afford it.
"There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead"
"There will be no GST increase under a governmentI lead"
"I think it would be folly to expect that women will ever dominate or even approach equal representation in a large number of areas simply because their aptitudes, abilities and interests are different for physiological reasons" - Tony Abbott
"If it's true, Stavros, that men have more power, generally speaking, than women, is that a bad thing?" - Tony Abbott
"Non-core promises" - John Howard
Come on, pretending that the Coalition have never lied or backflipped on policy and that Gillard backflipping on the carbon tax when stuck in minority government with the Greens is the most heinous thing ever is ridiculous.
We have no plans....
Please parse carefully. They may not have 'plans', but I bet they have ONE very big plan!
"Interest rates will always be lower under the coalition"
"The economy will always be stronger under the coalition"
Can someone tell Swan that he and his views are no longer relevant - This is a man who declared 4 surplus budgets in his 2012 budget! Hope the good people Lilley vote this fool out.
Ironically if he was still Treasurer under Gillard he would have (rightfully) lost his seat - it looks like the change to Rudd may get him across the line....funny how these things turn out
Just more lies from the ALP.
The GST rate can only be changed with the support of all the state Govts and the Federal Govt.
But lets not the facts get in the way of a good lie.
"There will be no GST rise under a government i lead" has a vaguely familiar ring to it ....
The Labor Party aren't interested in increasing GST. That's firmly the Coalition's domain. Howard introduced the GST, which was the biggest tax in Australian history, and Labor have since called it a regressive tax and have said that they will never increase it. The GST benefits the rich at the expense of the middle class, which is exactly why the Liberals, who represent the rich, love it.
Yes, Hacka, and there is no qualification to it, for the Liberal party and its tame dog journalist pack to leave out (unlike another, grossly misreported, statement).
Tone, the Labor party clearly aren't interested in balancing the budget, which is part of the reason why their economic credentials are in tatters.
Yes, hauntingly familiar to the "never ever" GST...
I believe the first proponent of a GST in Australia was a labour treasurer - Mr Keating. but I agree the current labour government does not seem to have any plans. That will not stop them from a scare campaign on the LNP boogey man however.
The scary thing is that they had to come out and say it. If they weren't even contemplating a rise why even mention it. Smells very much like that imfamous phrase "there will be no Carbon Tax under a Government I lead", be afraid, be very afraid.
Takes us all the way back to "by 1990, no Australian child will live in poverty".
Was Hawke one of Rudd's heroes ?
The other thing is that the Liberal Lovers here seem to have got Rudd confused with Howard. It was John Howard who used to say one thing and then you knew he was going to implement the exact opposite. It's why they called him Honest John. It was sarcasm.
Yes it does, wasn't it John Howard
Tone - Aussie voters elected Johnny H four times. How do you explain that ?
Hacka - Ignorance.
Thanks Tone - so are you saying that only people of higher intelligence vote for Labor ?
Actually Hacka, it is perhaps more appropriate to say "the general population are stupid." I have no problem with saying that there are stupid people voting for Labor as well. I don't give my $2.47 first preference vote to either Liberal or Labor. They're both a disgrace, but unlike you, I see Liberals as a bigger disgrace because they have every intention of undermining the standard of living that underpins our way of life.
Hacka so you're concluding that only people of low intelligence vote non-Labor?
No tasch2, but that could explain the Green vote !
Can we see proof please, or are you simply indulging speculation for the sake of lying for Labor?
The interest rate cut will stimulate private sector spending and bring a lower dollar which makes business more competitive if they export. How is this a bad thing? It will lead to all that is good with an economy.
Not necessarily in recent times household spending has decreased despite numerous cuts in interest rates: 6 cuts since March 2013. People are also saving more because of GFC effect. So there is little reason to suspect that this latest cut will stimulate spending when the previous 5 cuts did not.
In a sad indictment of the volatility and uncontrollable nature of our dollar, while Glenn seems to be able to talk it down, economic fundamentals don't seem to matter. On the announcement of reduced RBA rates the dollar went up against the greenback. Go figure.
Don't be so negative pen....it's all the RBA have to try and get you lot to spend your money again....or the govt has expansionary fiscal policy, which it has now, not slash and burn.
dcs, the reason why the dollar went up was that the market had already priced in the interest rate cut, as almost every economist was predicting it. Further, unlike after the previous RBA meeting, there was no indication that a further rate was in the pipeline.
So the players on the market thinks that it is more likely to stay the same for some time and other factors come in to play.
For all that, the rise was quite small and indicates that the dollar will stay in this range for the time being.
Read the article. Joe Hockey said in an interview with the Australian Financial Review that a GST rise would be "part of the equation" for a Coalition government. Naturally the Coalition are now rushing to say it totally isn't.
Can someone please explain how increasing the GST while decreasing the company tax will help keep the cost of living down?
Easy - stop buying unnecessary products and you will not incur the GST. More incentive to save.
Easy, be rich or a high income earner or a company.
Pawel, the people who buy the most unnecessary products are, by definition, the people who have the most discretionary spending power.
Discretionary spending is what is left after the necessities (such as clothing) are paid for.
The GST is clearly a regressive tax because everyone (rich and poor) have to pay for necessities, but only the richer can legitimately avoid the GST by not buying 'unnecessary' products.
The headline should read Labor again squibs on any meaningful attempt to reform our stupidly complex tax system.
Re: Spot the Difference at 10.20am post
Look one of the infants is wearing a tie!
But who has the higher IQ?
The kid wearing crocs, he's got all-weather shoes....
Joe Hockey did not never ever rule it out, after all he is the Shadow Treasurer not Abbott. Abbott says what King Rupert the Stupert tells him to say.
No surprises from the LNP - GST Up, Company Tax Down.
Business wins Workers lose.
Can we see proof please, or are you simply indulging speculation for the sake of lying for Labor?
Just more lies from the ALP.
The GST rate can only be changed with the support of all the state Govts and the Federal Govt.
But lets not the facts get in the way of a good lie.
It's like Rudds lie he keeps parroting that the Coalition have a 70 billion dollar black hole. It was proved incorrect. But he keeps parroting it anyway.
Scenario: GST up?? Vic and WA have already asked LNP to widen scope of GST to food...LNP say they will hold an enquiry into it.....probably led by Peter Costello. Any guesses to the outcome? Business pays lower tax but pays levy for wealthy female parental leave.....business loses, workers lose.
terry: the states will NEVER say no to a GST rise because it will potentially benefit them and they don't have to carry any political fallout. THere's no barrier there.
yea Rick, the Coalition only have a $50 billion black hole. It's bigger than the cost of the NBN. That's all. And now they are promising another $5 billion to cut company tax. The Liberal Party are frauds.
How is the Labor $200b black hole going, Tone? I hear it's growing by $1b per week.
I already read in The Australian today that the NBN cost has blown out by $5b. You don't mind that blow out, it seems.
No I don't Jerry, as I see that the alternative is worse. At least in the NBN case, the general population are the beneficiaries. In the Coalition's case, it's their rich mates.
The NBN will give ordinary Australians the ability to produce content and publish it online far better and cheaper than anything that went before. Rupert doesn't want us to be able to compete with him on that
The Labor Party is very happy that the Coalition did its job for it and brought in the GST. They would love the Coalition to increase it for them after the election if Labor loses.
Whatever happened to "Rollback"?
My view is that the Coalition's is right on the state of the economy. The interest rate cut is not necessarily good news overall. Banks are fighting for a smaller pool of new borrowers, with the annual growth of outstanding home loans falling to the slowest pace since at least 1977. The annual rate was 4.9% as of July, compared with about 7% in 2006; therefore, our banks have less money to fund investments.
Also of concern is our GDP growth rate which has been in decline for the last 17 months. Low economic growth with a growing population results in higher unemployment levels, which are according to the Morgan poll at 9.7% and not 5.7% as claimed by Labor. Even government revised unemployment of 6.25% underestimates the true situation in line with Morgan.
Irrespective of the number unemployment is predicted to skyrocket over the following two years and beyond, in particular as government revenues fall by an estimated $33 billion over the next four years.
Employment will also be affected by the slump in commodity prices, which are anticipated to a fall next year with a decline of 5.75%. Expected annual economic growth has also been marked down to 2.5%. from 2.75%.
In essence Labor has been in control of the economy for the last six years during which it has wasted billions on failed and dumped policies when fiscal reality set in. We would undoubtedly be in far better shape had Labor shown more fiscal responsibility instead of second guessing economic forecasts and more borrowings based on speculation.
When you say that the banks have less money to fund investments- the same banks making record profits- you kind of undermine your credibility.
The Coalition has no plans whatsoever to change the GST. This has been repeated many many times.
The PM is prosecuting the case that the Coalition will change the GST.
PM says "no GST changes" under a govt I lead - don't those words sound familiar to no carbon tax under a govt I lead
Can you define 'no plans'? The Opposition are very careful in choosing their weasel words. 'No plans' certainly does not mean 'We definitely won't do it'.
Given their history, it is very clear that the Opposition will raise the GST, given half a chance. The fact that Abbott himself has not been sitting at his dining table mapping out a process on graph paper with an hour-by-hour calculator, means nothing.
Remember, Tony was the guy who said you can't believe me unless it is written in blood. And even then, can you believe him?
Rudd is planning to jack up the GST, you wait.
No Harris, the GST has always been a Liberal Party agenda item. Labor have always said that they will not increase GST because it's a regressive tax. The Liberals love regressive taxes, because they reward the rich at the expense of the middle class.
"NO plans" doesn't mean "We will not do it"
Plans can change. Commitments shouldn't. If TOny could just say he will Never, Ever raise the GSt, then that would be a good promise..oh wait...Maybe not
Tone - Rudd will increase the GST. You can't trust them.
That's the response you get when Abbott says he won't increase the GST.
Consider it this way then. Which party is more likely to increase the GST, based on history - the Liberal Party, who introduced that massive tax and have never denied that they love it, or the Labor Party, who call it a regressive tax and have said that they will never increase it? The probability of the Liberal Party increasing the GST is magnitudes higher than Labor. And Rudd isn't John Howard. He doesn't say one thing and then implement the exact opposite. That's the Liberal party's Honest John Howard's mode of operation.
The probability that the Coalition will increase the GST without broading consultation and putting it to the people is ZERO.
Because history shows that they put it to the people in the first place.
In Jonathan Swan's piece about Joe Hockey's reference to the GST in the AFR, he opens by referring to Rudd's promise not to raise the GST being like Gillard's promise on the carbon tax.
Liberal Party people who talk about Fairfax being biased towards the ALP, there's your counterargument.
I don't get "Jonathon Swan has the details of the Coalition slip up regarding the GST".
I've read the article and heard the Coaltions response this morning and I can't find the "slip up". Kevin Rudd has said this morning that Abbott is going to increase the GST. That appears to be the "slip up". as the Coaltion have already come out this morning saying that is totally untrue and they have no intention of raising the GST. Please explain how this is a "slip up" by the Coalition?.
The Coalition have also been known to say that certain towns would be wiped off the map and a roast dinner would cost $100.00.
Pathetic start to the LNP campaign: "we have a six point plan to stop the boats.....Tony....Tony.....when are you going to come up with the other 5 and tell me?" There is nothing of any substance there at all....
Here's another one:
1. We
2. Will
3. Turn
4. Around
5. The
6. Boats
The rest of the 5 points solution is obviously still in the boat. One just needs to go and look in one of these Boats...voila....there they are. It's a game that the Liberals like to play...The Amazing Liberal Race. One goes from boat to boat and receive the next set of instructions. I believe Mr Abbott just found the second clue...cut company tax...off to the next boat.
For all those blinded by your Labor blinkers, let me assist you with the Coalition's 6 point plan (not that you want to read it)...
1.Issue protocols for Relex II to turn back the boats where safe to do so
2. Commence increasing capacity at offshore processing centres
3. Commence leasing and deploying additional vessels to relieve patrol vessels of passenger transfers
4. Conduct ministerial visits to Indonesia, PNG, Sri Lanka and Nauru to discuss operational plans
5.Establish Operation Sovereign Borders HQ and create the joint agency taskforce
6.Reintroduce TPV's.
I think David Bradbury, an experienced politician and assistant treasurer, losing the plot on radio yesterday was a greater embarassment than an inexperienced candidate being bludgeoned by an experienced journalists who was pushing for a mistake.
Bradbury accused a radio announcer of being a liberal stooge for daring to question his statement (Bradbury claimed that Hocky had said that the liberal supported higher interest rates). Bradbury then asked the announcer for his last name like he was to tell the principal the announcer was naughty.
Now that was pure gold dummy spit. Krudd would have been proud of him.
Need I say more....there is nothing of substance there at all......
Tim of Altona
Surely you jest.
Have you thought about those six points? If you had, you would never have repeated them. They are pure comedy.
1) When is it safe to turn back a boat?
2) Why do you need more offshore processing if you have turned back the boats?
3) Why do you need to buy boats to do passenger transfers if you have turned back the boats?
4) Why do you need ministerial visits if you are going to ignore them anyway?
5) Why do you need the armed forces for a group of tragic unarmed, overloaded boats?
6) Why do you need TPVs if you have turned back the boats?
Straight after the election, we know that the policy will change and he'll blame Rudd some more.
It's just more Abbott lies.
Not sure that some so-called journalist (although I'm not sure that TEN employs any does it?) picking on some new blood is particularly clever.
As stated elsewhere, David Bradbury's performance is of more concern.
We have to clear about one thing...the huge number of boat people arriving in this country is simply because of Mr Abbott's continuous refusal to adhere to Labor's pleads in combating this problem over the years. Every single time Labor wanted to put forward some kind of solution, Mr Abbott always refused & blocked it. I believe Mr Abbott deserve a good kick in the behind and I really hope that all these boat people will one day soon make their residence in his backyard. Wish to Vote for Liberal? You will get millions of more boat people, that's for sure.
You can't be serious - how many people have arrived since the ALP came into govt and dismantled the scheme - some 45,000 -how is this the Coalition's fault - will the PNG and Naru solution work - it seems to be unravelling each day
thats just a load of crap - it was labor that started the boats after the liberals stopped them and the libs voted against the useless suggestions by the current mob of incompetents on the grounds that they wouldn't work.
Sad thing is Daniel is serious. There was no problem when Rudd came to power and Rudd is 100% responsible for creating the current problems. Being a party stooge is one thing, but Daniel takes it to a whole new level.
Come on guys, let's be fair. Everyone who has been reading and listening to the news for the last few years in regards to this menacing boat people fiasco knows and can confirm that the Liberals ALWAYS blocked ANY solutions that the Labor put forward. Please, let's be honest and fair. I am not a Labor nor Liberal supporter, by the way.
it seems to me the majority of people are not intelligent enough to understand the complex issues involved with asylum seekers and how to develop policy for the issue. most people prefer to have their simplistic ignorant views and don't understand anything beyond a slogan or left/right dynamics. It's sad but very little will change while we have governments unwilling to show leadership and beholden to the ignorant views of the masses.
You seem to forget that Labor was in power they had the numbers to with their supporters who passed plenty of policies, why did they need Abbots vote? So how is it Abbots fault??
Rudd created the boat mess, than spent 18 months as the foreign minister – what did he actually do???
Apart from spending plenty of money bribing 3 world hacks to get their vote for that useless Security
(does anybody actually know what they do apart from jetting around the world wining and dining in the finest places).
Yes the same ones representing the nations that Australians have been protecting and feeding for many decades.
Daniel I think must be with the Dudd show pony travelling on a plane the song Elton sang .Gee Daniel what planet did you say you were from!!!
ultra...I am from the planet where one can write a sentence that actually makes some sense. Go back, re-read your own comment and tell me if it makes any sense (other readers may join in); clue...get some grammatical classes. You're not related to Diaz by any chance? " Dohhhhh, we'll stop the boats, doahhhhh!"
On the subject of Tony Abbott's company tax cuts, I'm reminded of Bill Clinton's quote from the last US election campaign: "We cannot afford to double down on trickle down".
This is not about benefitting the average Aussie worker. The Libs and their cohorts are already complaining that wages are too high and they're going to take unspecified steps to deal with that. Pretending this tax cut is meant to trickle down to the average Joe or Jodie is a swindle.
Shhhhh. You're not allowed to call it WorkChoices. Give it another name, the public won't know. Shhhh.
Trickle down is as respected as an economic theory as communism - both are proven economic disasters. Yet Abbott and his Tea Party wanna-be's still think it is a way forward and somehow 'fair dinkum'. What's fair dinkum about tax breaks for big business, cutting services, delivering reduced infrastructure and taxing us more through an inevitable GST increase?
Tone, it's a tired old argument mate, that was the 2007 scaremongering campaign, don't you have new slogan, if you're going to play the spin game mate, remember to put your long trousers on here mate, you're playing with the big boys now.
Nah, slogans are Abbott's thing, sorry.
"Breaking news reporter Jonathan Swan has the details of the Coalition slip up regarding the GST."
Is 'slip up' the journalist's shorthand for 'letting the cat out of the bag'?
What cat out of the bag? or slip up? The coalition have already said that it is not the case. They say the story is rubbish and not true. I think the journo concerned has slipped up.
"The coalition said"....
Well, the party of never, ever and core and non-core promises said .....
The Harbour Bridge is for sale - and they will throw in Fraudband for nothing.
Let's see if the media pressures Abbott to say what cuts he's making to pay for the company tax cut.
Well, let's see if the Fairfax media and the ABC do it. The Murdoch media and the commercial TV networks won't.
The Pulse 9:58AM
Hold the presses, J.Fraser hits 92% censor rate in Fairfax.
I think I've beat that by mentioning Albo's beers with Thommo and The Age bringing down Julia Gillard with front page headlines. Oh well, I gave it my best shot.
applause, applause. Trying for 100% are you?
here's hoping for 100% across all media!
The LNP won't put up the GST or extend it's scope in the next 3 years...but will require a mandate......watch the bulldust propaganda on the GST to brainwash the public over the next 3 years.
"Has Murdoch made up your mind who to vote for".
All the sheeple reply in the affirmative.
Including Julia G. Fraser? Or will she be doing Rupert's work for him?
In the 2007 election most News Ltd papers endorsed Rudd and the ALP to be elected as the Govt.
But as usual Rudd has forgotten that as has most ALP supporters.
LABOR has cemented its border protection deal to settle asylum-seekers in Papua New Guinea but is facing a Coalition challenge to the outcome, as it emerged the agreement was finalised only after the government entered caretaker mode.
Can someone confirm this story?
"Caretaker mode" is only a convention, is it not? It reminds of 1975 when the media insisted calling Mr Fraser the "Caretaker Prime Minister", when in fact he was simply the Prime Minister. I don't see anyhing in the Constitution about caretaker governments.
So if the Government has concluded an agreement during htis period it could hardly be considered invalid, even if it is considered improper.
Its because the Coalition don't really want to solve "the problem"
What deal does Australia have with PNG on refugees? All we have is a two page note with no substance. It has not gone before the Australian parliament, let alone the PNG one and the PNG opposition have announced they will fight it tooth and nail. Oh but we can always fall back on Nauru who have denied Rudd's claimed deal with them. Rudd running around making policy from the hip doesnt cut it. Rudd hasnt managed a full change over to his personal dictatorship yet and until he does we are still a democracy.
Hope Albo didn't drink too many beers with Thommo at the Rocks beer barn last night, as it's no time for a hangover in campaign time. Can someone ask Albo if poor Thommo had the cash for a few rounds or will he have to do another dinner fundraiser? or maybe he'll be the new ALP candidate for Dobell? and has Bradbury settled down from his radio rant?
Does Rudd really want to pick a fight with Murdoch ? Seems like there'd only be one winner out of that.
Or maybe Kev's wants to continue the Gillard tradition of demonising anyone successful.
Murdoch has already declared war on Rudd and Labor (or did you misunderstand the headline of the Terror?).
As for demonising the successful, perhaps you would support other famously wealthy US citizens buying up all our press and telling us how to vote, in order to further their other commercial interests in Australia.
I think Rudd is pointing out murdochs monopoly agenda which doesn't benefit anyone. Im pleased that this is being called out.
I think Bradbury's performance on radio last night is fairly indicative of how the ALP reacts to any media who questions them... or pulls them up when they state something untruthful. Bradbury basically accused the guy of working for the Libs.
I'm really getting to dislike this Kev guy.Wan't here in '07 but when he deposed of Gillard I thought "hooray for us". Now, a few weeks on, and it's "OMG help us". There's something dodgy and desperate about his dealings since the overthrow. Gave him the benefit of the doubt, but Kev's lost out on me at least. Only problem is, I find myself agreeing with Rupert M...."OMG help me!".
Murdoch's next headline :
"Hacka surrenders"
Whyalla Wipeout
You seem to forget as Rudd does that in 2007 election most News Ltd( including The Australian) papers supported and endorsed the election of a Rudd Govt.
Now the tide has turned and the no longer support the Rudd Govt which as usual Rudd will not what this mentioned and is crying poor.
Can the budget currently afford a $2.5b tax break for companies??
This will take the LNP budget hole to $52.5b.
If the LNP think that they can cut public servants to cover the budget hole.....Canberra is going to look like a ghost town soon.
WW - not sure about declaring war - the Terror decided that Rudd should be kicked out. Many of us agree.
If you don't like the headline, don't buy the paper, or simply ignore it. Most Aussies are smart enough to work this stuff out for themselves. Rudd moaning about it is counterproductive - he's got the ABC in his corner anyway.
Besides, the whole rationale about the NBN being a threat to News Ltd seems implausible anyway. The whole model ignores the rise of 4G services (wireless) to start with.
Sam - the budget has been so driven into the ground that it can't afford much at all.
But thanks for the laugh about Coalition costings - presumably your next trick will be to tell us that Labor know how to manage a budget.
You must have missed that last Friday the ALP cut $600 million in public service wages.
Hacka, two points:
1. If you are not sure that Murdoch has declared war (as opposed to 'supporting' the Opposition), your view of reality is more skewed than even I thought.
2. If you think that 4G (or any sort of wireless that has been even conceptualised) can do remotely what optical fibre can do, you make Tony Abbott seem like an IT whiz. Even Malcolm is not still promoting wireless mobile as part of his Fraudband policy.
Hacka, you think the PM of Australia would come off worst in a fight with a US resident who controls our media but you don't think that's a problem!
I'm glad you got to laugh at my comment... Even little balls of negativity need a release every now and then.... :)
WW - could you explain please how the NBN will help your 4G iPad receive signals ? The cable market share is falling. Malcolm doesn't need to promote wireless broadband - have you not heard of Optus and Telstra ?
Sam - personally i'm just loving the Rudd line that Labor are better economic managers. It flies in the face of every single piece of evidence to the contrary. Especially with the economy weakening, growth falling and unemployment rising, as explained by the RBA in their rates decision.
jofek - don't get too excited. The editors of the Terror et al are Aussies - their opinion is what counts. Do you think they have to phone up Rupert before going to press ?
There was a piece in The Oz today saying that the Rudd campaign is stalling. Do you guys disagree ?
Why doesn't Murdoch simply stand for Opposition Leader himself? Oh that's right he gave up his Australian citizenship for money.
Remember all those comments regarding the bias of News Ltd I made on these pages that were howled down by you and your fellow coalition supporters? Now all proven correct.
"The editors of the Terror et al are Aussies - their opinion is what counts."
Hilarious Hacka.
I don't subscribe to the Oz; you'll have to elaborate - it doesn't seem to be stalling if you look at the non-Murdoch papers.
Hacka, I don't have a 4G iPad. I have a wireless only one. That means that I rely on the wireless router in my home or on tethering to my iPhone when out.
In the home, the feed is okay for what I use the ipad for at the moment - although significant downloads are quite slow on my ADSL feed.
Outside of home, surfing (which is not data heavy) on the wireless mobile network is unreliable, slow and a complete pain in the neck. There is a huge amount of variation in access, even from the same spot, depending on the number of other people trying to use the network at the same time. There is absolutely no comparison with ADSL, let alone latency-free optical fibre broadband to the premises.
This is a nonsense argument put up by people who just don't understand the technology.
Oh, and Hacka, can you please explain the offsetting savings for the $5 billion company tax cut that the Opposition just announced?
I mean the actual dollar amounts and the specifics of where that money is coming from. Not some specious, dissembling piece of number free verbiage describing a magic pudding of so-called government waste.
Think Big - no - don't remember those. The Murdoch press have decided that Rudd is a fake, a fraud and a failure and he needs to be removed. Perfectly logical stuff really.
WW - so you agree the NBN won't help you use your iPad. Well done - you should tell many of your buddies, who think it will.
On the company tax cuts, the ALP promised the same but didn't deliver, shock horror. Abbott has said they are fully funded. His economic statement can't come out until after PEEFO is released, probably with the next budget update the way it's going.
First of all, I didn't say the NBN would not help my iPad. But I'm not surprised that you could not understand, not being a tech-head and all. Still, I did write my response in English.
No doubt, when I am using the new, new, new iPad in 2020 and the NBN is fully functioning, it will be essential because of the increased functionality of iPads by then, along with desktop computers and a whole range of other internet connected facilities in my house which will depend on a reliable, latency free optical fibre feed, in the same way that so many of our appliances depend on reliable electricity now. Bet the Liberals of 1920 thought electrification was a waste of money then too.
As for releasing figures after PEFO, you obviously had missed out on one of your Liberal Party briefings this week, or perhaps you were confused by their endless flip-flopping.
But just to put you in the picture, Joe is not prepared to rely on PEFO figures this year. Under Costello's charter of budget honesty, they only apply to the Labor Party. The Liberals are currently looking for a fifth-rate snake oil accountancy firm to do its costing (they only trust the PBO when it suits too), and, until then expect us to rely on slogans and the magic pudding of public service cuts where an endless supply of useless public servants get the chop.
So WW - Labor is spending $100 billion on the NBN and it won't even help a 3G, 4G, 5G or even 6G wireless device, which is where the market growth is.
That does seem like a waste of money wouldn't you say ? Although maybe Telstra will provide this service, bypassing the government monopoly.
On PEEFO - it's pretty clear that Labor have lost the economic debate already. Hopefully they can make it to Sept 7 without giving us another budget update.
Oh Hacka. You do. Pick up little issues and twist and hammer them to promote your beloved Libs and their policies.
I have an iPad. I use it as a supplement to my computer in my home office and to create files and research when I am out and about.
We have cable at home. AND a wireless router for the computers. Both of us can use our iPads with either our wireless connection to the cable, or go "cable-free" and use 3G.
So the higher speed of the NBN will give me faster access for both my computer and my iPad.
There are times when the 3G network is much much faster than the copper wires to our home and home office. Roll on the NBN direct connection to my home office!!
Hacka, even an unimaginative party hack like you should be able to take the blinkers off for a moment and realise that one man having so much influence on the outcome of an election is not healthy for a democracy. If he was a supporter of Labor I know you'd be on the other side of this argument; managing to be on either side of any given argument has never been an issue for you for as long as I've been reading your posts. Quite pathetic really.
Hacka, every response shows up the huge ignorance of the right wing about IT matters. It is not about the wireless device. It is about what our homes will need data connections for 10, 20, 30 years into the future. Your logic would have us think that electric lighting in the house is no longer relevant because better and better battery powered torches are being invented.
As for PEFO (which you introduced because you forgot that it was no longer part of Hockeynomics), you are obviously flummoxed about how to respond to the reasonable question of how the Coalition will pay for their promises and do the old right-wing thing of repeating Abbott's ridiculous mantras about the Government.
So pathetic. And to think some Australians are so disconnected to actually buy this nonsense. I only wish I had access to their names. I could make a mint selling the Harbour Bridge over and over again.
jofek - Murdoch is probably just following popular opinion. His view seems in synch with the polls.
WW - don't sell the SHB - Labor have no infrastructure plans to replace it.
Where's SteveH ? He's missing out on all the fun ?
Hacka, the polls are neck and neck despite Murdoch's influence.
Will you one day have an original non-partisan opinion or can we assume you will forever be the Gerard Henderson of the blogosphere?
jofek - if you want to discuss polls, what do you think about the slump in Kev's net satisfaction rating, now back in negative territory with Abbott ?
He's back to the same spot as June 2010 apparently.
jofek. perhaps our Hacka is indeed our Hendo.
Hacka, I'm not obsessing about it. Now we're so close why don't we worry about other things than the polls; they are not an end in themselves.
A country gal, he does seem to be. Like Henderson, once you know which side of a topic the Libs are on, you know exactly which side Hacka will be on. He's not exactly unique amongst the squaddies in that respect though.
ACG - how kind. And to think we've only got 31 more days of this left ....
Hacka, it wasn't intended as a compliment as such. More your welded on myopic view, your steadfastness on any issue.I've yet to meet anyone that agrees 100% with party policy. Surely you must disagree with Tones and crew on something? Please do tell.
But you do have uncanny access to when an article becomes available for comment, inside access is obvious. Hence my observation.