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I'm obsessed with this show
A great show tonight. Action lacked, although lots of violence. I wondered if the ballerina is Red's daughter.
The girl dancing in Red's fantasy looks like the same girl in the Stewmaker's photo. Such a sad, revealing and well done scene. The show continues to blow my mind
Action PACKED (not lacked!). Sorry!
So many interesting plot points came to head in this episode.
As Jane and Redravenous also posted in last week's comment section, it looks like the girl dancing Swan Lake, who we know was Red's daughter, has the same face as the girl in the Stewmaker's album. I'll have to rewatch and freeze the frame but it really looks like a match. If Red only had one daughter, we now know conclusively what happened to her.
We now know that Jolene and Tom work/worked for an outfit out of Berlin, and not Fitch, because Tom didn't know who put the cameras in his house, and Apple Man didn't know who Tom was. Pretty clear the Adversary is not Fitch.
Which goes to my next point, which I started on last week's thread. Fitch and Diane's group did not kill Red's family. It looks like just like Ressler came to Red for help to avenge Audrey's killing, Red went to Fitch for help to avenge his family's. If you rewatch that scene, that's who Red's referring to when he said he got the advice to just go home, like he was giving to Ressler and he too ignored it. That was Fitch telling Red to go home.
Interesting that Tom figured out Red was paying for Lizzy for all those years, but obviously she's important or he wouldn't have been hired to target her.
These are just my preliminary thoughts :). Have to rewatch a few times.
Good stuff. Love the show.
Terminator 2 Judgement Day--The Blacklist: Same--Same
I think that the ballerina is either red's actual daughter, or his dead daughter used to dance and the ballet reminds him of her.
Also, yes, I was actually extremely sad to see Jolene go. I really had high hopes for her character and I thought she was going to become an important member of the cast. All I know is that this show makes my heart race and I am so intrigued!! I feel like I need to re-watch all the episodes in order to pick up on all the little details. I really can't wait for next week's episode!!!
Redravenous, I sadly think you are correct. IMBD listed the age of the girl in the photo as 12. The program Red was holding was dated 1987 which mean she would have been about 9 when she was dancing and those numbers and ages match up. But this blows the theory that Red's daughter was 4 when The Tragedy occurred.
Jason, thanks so much for getting this up so quickly. Wow! This was a heart-thumpiing episode!
Red gave the Swam Lake dancer money to give to her mother. So I am thinking this is his daughter and mother is still alive someone safe!
Unbelievable story tonight....I think we can see from the ending that the dancer he was watching was his daughter - I think she is dead. So where does that leave Red and Lizzie - who is he to Lizzie - why did he pay her adoptive father to take care of her. What is the connection between Lizzie and Red?
This is the best show on TV....
Although this episode shed much light on Red's daughter it did nothing to solve the Lizzie relationship. Where did Red get her when she was 4 years old? Why was he supporting her through Sam all these years?
Good recap Jason.
Juicy being killed, along with Audrey, in this episode is a real shocker. We've speculated how along with Liz, they all looked similar, possibly sisters. Looks like the writers were just having their way with us again. Since Red wanted Juicy to be brought to him, it's possible he was going to kill her himself, if she really was working for the same people in Berlin as Tom. After the ballet scene, I now think Red knows his daughter is dead and he has since seeing the Stewmaker's photo. I guess Red approved of Audrey for Ressler. He clearly cares about Donald and has been keeping tabs on him. Donald knew that Red brought them back together after their discussions in the cage.
Tanida's head in a box with a note for Ressler was fun.
Ok, when juicy and tom were arguing about her cover being blown and therefore his as will... did he say something about "all the cases" brought her here or brought her to them (presumably from Berlin) what was that part??? Red's cases?? The blacklist? Did the blacklist cases force Jolene to come ??
Which leads me to a topic from the last thread....what is red's intent w the blacklist?
A.M. what do you mean "we now know conclusively what happened to her?"
I'm relieved that Kessler didn't kill his (ex) friend. Liz and Red are both right ...you can't come back from that.
Best episode I HAVE EVER seen on TV .Spader and colleagues must win an award for this show.I look forward to Liz turning it around and putting tom away but I believe he will escape and live another day,so the mystery will continue !
Best episode I've ever seen on TV
If the daughter Red was fantasizing about as he watched the ballet is the girl whose photo we saw him take out of the Stewmaker's photo album of his victims, then we know conclusively that his daughter died, because in 1990 the people in that book were people whose bodies he disposed of after they were killed. There's no mystery anymore as to whether THAT daughter lived. I'm not sure where everyone is getting that she was 12 though. If she was 12 in 1990, and Red was almost 30, that would mean he had her when he was 18. Possible but a little young to be fathering a child while in the Naval Academy. But I guess that's what we're left with because on his most wanted sheet they said he was born in Jan 1960.
Maybe Red had more than one daughter but if he did there would be birth certificates, social security number, and other paper traces that you'd think the FBI would have had in the file; unless Red, or Fitch, cleaned all that up when he placed Lizzy with Sam. If the Adversary found out, that would be a good reason to place Tom with her, to see if Lizzy remembered and if Red would contact her.
Oh! I forgot to mention another plot point they tied up! Tom admitted to Jolene that the box was his!!!
Just a note that Berlin does not have to refer to that city in Germany. It could be a person's name or a codename.
Yes Ziji, he mentioned the Alchemist, and at least 2 others. He seemed like he was seeing the plan come together. I think he said something like don't you see what he's doing? I was disappointed in Jolene's fight tactics and lack of where withal in general. How has she been stealthy enough to track Red and deceive Tom before and now she is blind sighted twice? And what girl doesn't use her legs (and a swift knee) when she protects herself? Totally psyched about next week's episode! Thank you NBC for regular scheduling next Monday
Incredible episode!! Jason, thanks so much for getting your recap up so darn fast. Do you even get to enjoy the show while taking notes?
Did the ballerinas say something about Red being a long time donor? I got the impression he's had them perform before. I may be way off...I'll have to watch again before I can be sure of anything. How does the present day ballerina's mother tire into this?
So awful that Red's daughter was killed by the Stewmaker. How do you survive knowing that your young child was killed in that way?
I was not sad to see Juicy go. Tom killing her was really central to our understanding how evil he is.
I like how much more intimate Ressler's relationship with the viewers became tonight. We saw a lot more emotion, and a mutual respect has developed between Ressler and Red.
Okay, here's my theory.The pregnancy test was a clue. Ressler doesn't know if he would have been a father or not. I think, given the blood types, Ressler has to be Red's son. Maybe Red never knew it until much more recently. He had an affair with a woman who got pregnant without him knowing it. She took off and he never knew he had a son.
One more thing...Jane, I was thinking the same thing! Berlin could just be a code name. Like the site Lizzie works at is called the Post Office
What if it was Juicy having Tom and Liz watched? If she has been watching Red she may have wanted to know more about Liz, and learned some things about Tom from the surveillance. Tom said he had to go dark after he was stabbed and hadn't contacted the people in Berlin. Once they meet she seems to be feeling her way with him, letting him reveal info he's gathered more than giving up much herself. The box was his, so she would know that. The surveillance started after Red had openly met with Liz outside. Although Tom wasn't in contact with Berlin, he may have given up enough clues inside the house (like contacting Gina) for Juicy to have enough to confront him so she could learn more. If Juicy and Tom really worked for the same people, why would kill her? Wouldn't that upset the Berlin folks?
Maybe she's still not dead. Faked her death and will somehow get out of the grave Tom dug. The blood would be Cowboy's.
I just have to say I loved the episode tonight, everything. Well, Red asked if Donald wanted Tanida's head in a box, and Dembe delivered it to him. Wow. Now we know why Red is the largest contributor at the theatre. I felt very sad watching him envision his daughter as the ballerina.
I'm very glad we learned more about Ressler tonight, but heartbroken for his loss/losses. I'm glad he is feeling closer to Red and that Red shared his thoughts with Ressler. I've never felt the need for a romantic relationship between Liz and Ressler, but the writers may feel the need to pave the way for that to happen. I thought Audrey looked very beautiful tonight, and remembered someone said she was unattractive. She clearly wasn't.
Jolene and the Cowboy were killed too soon and buried wrapped in plastic, but at least Red received the photos of Tom with Jolene. The first smile from Cowboy, just to tell Red he didn't like him. He should have had a better sense of humor.
Of all nights for Liz to come home and feel frisky. It was spine tingling to see the blood from his hands on her back in the shower. I honestly hope Tom never gets laid again.
Good point Jane. I still think it might be possible Juicy or the apple guy heard Tom refer to Berlin, maybe to Gina. It was clear Tom was off put by the idea of being watched. Maybe he led her down a path to figure out she didn't know as much as she should have, or she said something to tip him off. So, he killed her knowing she wasn't sent by " Berlin".
Chompstick, the Stewmaker didn't kill the girl in the photo. He disposed of her body. Liz would have been the first person he killed, had Red not killed him.
Just remembered another name Tom mentioned when he was talking to Jolene. Wujing. That was even the episode where we first saw Jolene's picture in the ViCap database.
Well….faking her death again could be possible because she is listed as being in next week's episode. I thought it was probably going to be flashbacks with Tom's brother since he knew her. I don't see how she could have faked being dead with Tom carrying her into the country and burying her. He would be able to tell is she was breathing, warm and rigor mortis had not set in.
Jane, I know it's out there but I just re -watched the episode on western feed and it looks like only one body is in plastic. As well, being winter, Tom couldn't dig much of a grave. Still, a long shot. When Dembe tells Red that they are both gone he seems upset. When Red tells the cowboy to bring her in, the cowboy asks "I thought you wanted to see how this played out?" And Red says "it has" seeing the pics of Tom and Jolene together. I wonder what he meant by that.
Tom is looking for connection between Red and Liz and says their paths have crossed many times over many years. He mentions sitting with Red at the hospital and says he could have killed him. Jolene says it wasn't his mission. Could she have followed one of them to Nebraska and saw them together. So, it seems as if Tom and "Berlin" are trying to find out what we are trying to find out. What is their connection, Red and Liz?
Tom was probably watching Jolene and saw Cowboy following her. In Tom's 1896 place Tom comes to the conclusion it's Red who sent the cowboy and by tracking Juicy it's led Red to Tom. I just think the suffocation was too easy, using the car cover. Maybe she could breath through it. If he wrapped her in it, maybe she could get away with it. Gina sure could fight better than Juicy and Tom took the Cowboy down pretty easy, for such a big and tough guy.
Ann, The connection between Red and Lizzie is That Red is Lizzie's Father!
I am sad to see Cowboy leave so soon, in addition to Juicy. I do not, I repeat, do not want Ressler and Liz to get together. It is cliche, to say the least, and I enjoyed the storyline thus far. I agree with the comments. I love the show. Can not way to see who the little girl is...dun dun dun...if we haven't met her already, when will we? In other words, he is connected to Liz on more than a professional level. Weird "Berlin" comment.
This is getting on the verge of boring. People will start to drop off and it will die before the next season. Good attempt at first. May be salvagable if they hurry up and change script writers.
This is getting on the verge of boring. People will start to drop off and it will die before the next season. Good attempt at first. May be salvagable if they hurry up and change script writers.
This episode convinces me that Liz is not Red's daughter. His daughter is the girl ballerina that Red sees instead of the real ballerinas. And she is dead, most likely murdered. It is consistent with Red's comment to Liz that he is not her father and his voice over comment to Ressler about lost loved ones.
What is not clear is who Tom works for. It is definitely not the people who bugged his apartment as he did not know about them. This means there is another party out there besides the one that had Red kidnapped.
Watch the first episode if you will
In the scene with Tom and Lucy in the warehouse, as Tom was going over the pictures on the wall, I thought I heard him say that Lizzie's father "funneled the money." The group Tom/Lucy works for is obviously after Red and they see Lizzie as a link to him - but because of her father? Explains why Tom was so keen on going to Nebraska to see his father-in-law before he died as he probably wanted a last shot at getting information.
Also thought it was interesting that when Lucy asked about the building plans, which were of the post office, Tom acted like that wasn't important/said that's where she (Lizzie) works.
Looks like next week Lizzie is going to investigate Lucy/Jolene but the preview scene with Tom outside the door of the warehouse, you just know he is going to give Lizzie some BS about being worried/following her there and Lizzie will think the whole warehouse setup was by Lucy/Jolene. Can only hope that now that Lizzie knows she's a target that she keeps looking and is eventually led to Tom.
Jason, thank you for the recap. I am disappointed that Cowboy is gone, he was a great character. I thought the plot would have been better if Jolene is smarter (maybe she pretend to call Lizzie, or leave the phone recording on). I am sure the writer is smarter than me. On another note, they better come up with something smart. Most of the viewers of this show expect deeper plot. I think Liz is Red's daughter still. What's Liz age now and what 's her age in 1987? Very interesting!
@Jo, I thought Jolene was testing Tom and faking the call, too.
Kinda sad over losing Cowboy. He was pretty cool, and a good ally for Red.
Great episode. Very glad Red sent the head to Ressler, as it is SOME sort of closure, and Ressler needed that.
I don't know why but when watching Red watch his "daughter" dance at the end/getting the news that Cowboy and Jolene/Lucy were missing, I couldn't help but think that Jolene/Lucy was his daughter and that Red was mourning the daughter he remembered in his previous life, what she had become and that she was now truly gone. Possibly Berlin used Jolene/Lucy to tail Red because they felt he'd never kill her.
First impressions before I watch the episode again. Red's daughter is definitely dead. Unless Liz is a daughter from an affair, or from an adoption, she is not Red's daughter. Tom was chosen by an global intelligence group based in Berlin, Germany (You were right all along CES2). The girl that Red is remembering in a ballet, does look similar in appearance to the girl in the stew maker album. But I'm not sure we can still make that conclusion.
Jolene should not have turned her back to Tom, why was she so clueless? Tom already knew that Red's choices of criminals on the Blacklist were meant to find Jolene, that Red had targeted her. I don't think she survived Tom, there seemed to be two faces side by side wrapped up in plastic. But all these observations are subject to change after watching a second time!
Audrey's death was totally unnecessary to the plot, and very upsetting to watch, compounded by the pregnancy test Donald finds later. What were the writers thinking? It was a thoughtless and unimaginative way to drum up some sympathy for Ressler from viewers. (I could not locate my two cats after I leapt to my feet and screamed "Stay in the car! Stay in the car you fool!" ) Audrey should have known better, stay in the car, let Donad take care of the bad guys. Agony.
Thought of you Redravenous, when Red sends Ressler the thoughtful gift at the end. Nice touch writers.
I hated seeing Cowboy die. He was a colorful character and Red and his bodyguard can't do everything for themselves.
That was a good catch about the lack of finesse in attacking someone in a car. Also, Tom's fight with Juicy was fierce and should have left marks on him which were absent in the shower scene.
It was a great episode but for me the "ew" moment was when Liz got into the shower with Tom while the blood was still circling the drain. The head was icky but my mind immediately went to ,"How's he going to get rid of it?"
Some impressions before I watch the episode again. Red's daughter is definitely dead. Unless Liz is a daughter from an affair, or from an adoption, she is not Red's daughter. Tom was chosen by an international intelligence group based in Berlin, Germany (You were right all along CES2). The girl that Red is remembering in a ballet, does look similar in appearance to the girl in the stew maker album. But I'm not sure we can still make that conclusion.
Jolene should not have turned her back to Tom, why was she so clueless? Tom already knew that Red's choices of criminals on the Blacklist were meant to find Jolene, that Red had targeted her. I don't think she survived Tom, there seemed to be two faces side by side wrapped up in plastic. But all these observations are subject to change after watching a second time!
Audrey's death was totally unnecessary to the plot, and very upsetting to watch, compounded by the pregnancy test Donald finds later. What were the writers thinking? It was a thoughtless and unimaginative way to drum up some sympathy for Ressler from viewers. I could not locate my two cats after I jumped to my feet and screamed "Stay in the car! Stay in the car you fool!" Audrey should have known better, stay in the car, let Donad take care of the bad guys. Agony.
I thought of you Redravenous when Ressler receives that lovely gift from Red at the end. Nice touch by the writers.
Jason - you wrote, "Cut to Liz and Red's house" ... Freudian slip, maybe?
You also wrote: "WOW!! Tom is a bad!#^!@^ I can't believe they just killed off Juicy only moments after she got a fun nickname! Fun stuff though." ... It just feels in poor taste. I know it is just a TV show, I know we've been waiting for Tom's stuff to come out, but the girl just got killed and in a rough way. Hardly "fun stuff."
For all of us cracklisters this episode answered a lot of questions. So Red did call Audrey, no surprise there, I always thought that. Red genuinely does care for Ressler and didn't want him to go down the same road he did. The girl in the Stewmaker photo was was Red's daughter. The markings on the wall in the house appeared to end at age 3 but that might have just been when they put the paneling up. The ballerina that Red was flashing back to was his daughter in 1987. The program in his hand said March 22, 1987. I went back and froze the frame to see. The performers said that Red was their largest donor and that his daughter had danced in the ballet. So in 1987 she danced in the ballet and in Dec 1990 she was killed and her body was disposed of by the Stewmaker. I have to go back and watch the Stewmaker episode again but I believe some of his victims were alive, just paralyzed when he put them in the chemicals. Remember he gave Liz a shot to paralyze her so she would feel pain when she was put in the chemicals. That was disturbing. I do remember at the end of the Stewmaker Ressler told Red it is too bad that the drug lord got away. Red smiled and said he is on my jet right now. I wonder if he was the one that ordered the hit on Red's family.
Also, Tom mentioned that when Liz found the box he had to replace the passports with fake ones and money that was traceable to Red. Which there was great discussion about on the other blog and I believe it was Anna that said he did that. We also know now that Tom did know who Red was when that had that little chat. Interesting that Red had been sending money to Sam all these years.....not a surprise. So if Liz is Red's daughter, she is definitely not the one he had with his wife.
I also agree that it was Fitch that told Red to go home, which he did not listen, and his life became what it is now. There is one more question though, why did Red tell the woman he gave money to at the theater to tell her mother hello for him?
I thought the same thing about Jolene not being really dead. She might have figured out she couldn't overpower Tom so she just went limp and let him think she is dead. Rigamortis does not set in for several hours and Tom could only bury their bodies in the snow not the ground, it would be frozen. Someone had said that she didn't really call Liz but she did because Liz referred to the call when she was in the shower with Tom.
Great show last night....left me with a lot of emotions! Will watch it again tonight.
Sorry, that was me also as SavAnna. It took so long for the first comment to appear, that I thought it didn't post.
Why did Ressler think Audrey would even be a target at all? Mako wasn't after family members - not a single one had been injured - just after the guys who killed his brother. PS - Mako, as in Mako shark, is a really nice touch writers.
For that matter, if Mako rams Ressler's car, why doesn't he just shoot Ressler in the back as Ressler is weeping over Audrey as Mako is running away? That made no sense (I could MAYBE stretch my imagine to think that he was more interested in the ritual of seppuku than in straight up murder, but still. COME ON.)
I thought Audrey was hiding something when she quickly put the clothes on the couch. I thought it was going to be a spy photograph or something, but no. FTR, I think she added a lovely layer to Ressler, but I didn't feel like she was integral part of the show; therefore, I have no feelings one way or another on her being killed off.
Same for the Cowboy. He was boring.
Juicy is to spying as Liz is to profiling. She doesn't know the Cowboy is following her? The Cowboy can't take on Tom? Juicy doesn't have super spy strength or something? I found it slightly unbelievable that Tom was able to dispatch the two of them so easily. (I thought Jolene was faking the call too!! - and I thought she'd be smarter than to turn her back on Tom. Seriously, worst. spy. ever.)
Okay, Lizzie REALLY? You don't smell the blood in the shower? Even a simple, "did you cut yourself?" would've worked for me.
In the previews for next week, Tom is frantically ripping down his string theory artwork. Guess he should've written it in invisible ink, ala Gone in 60 Seconds, instead!
Juicy is dead. Juicy was not supposed to see Liz and Tom decided to eliminate her. It is possible that Juicy wanted to warn Liz about Tom, possibly because she was a double agent working for Red. Also, it could be possible that Juicy and Liz were actually biological sisters (they look alike) and Juicy felt that she was obligated to warn Liz about Tom somehow.
If that young dancer girl that the Stewmaker had the picture of was Red's daughter ( which is plausible), she wasn't his only kid in my opinion. The scar that Liz got in "the fire" still hasn't been explained yet. Here's a theory, the dancer girl was Red's eldest and most favorite kid, and when she died, a devastated Red decided to give away the rest of his kids to other parents in order to save them from being killed and to clear the way for him to fully concentrate on hunting down his daughter's killer. I think its possible that Liz, Ressler, and Juicy could all be Red's kids and thus siblings to each other (hints have been dropped about all 3 in my opinion, Ressler with the same rare blood type as Red, multiple hints with Liz, including the scar and Red's protectiveness, and Red's obsession with trying to find Juicy in the VICAP database plus her striking resemblance to Liz).
Also, I think its possible for the birth records to have been expunged to make it harder for someone to find
Overall, intense, but good and thought provoking episode.
I was wondering what part a child could possibly have in Swan Lake.
(The mother of the ballerina, I'm fanwanking, is Madeline Pratt)
I am now really going to miss Juicy! RIP Juicy!
@Cerise - how could you think Cowboy was boring? I love his character!! It was so funny to see someone having an attitude with Red. I'm really going to miss him.
Also, Jolene's a skinny girl, even if she and Tom have the same training, he's obviously going to win because he has the advantage of size and strength. I'm pretty sure Tom would have checked her pulse and confirmed she was really dead.
I enjoyed this episode very much. I liked the Blacklister, thought he was interesting, and I liked that we got to see Ressler unraveled, and the irony of Reddington being the only person he accepted comfort from. He certainly has shifted his alliance; if not fully on Red's side, he at least has an understanding of Red's motivations and sympathy because of their common experience of tragedy.
Tom's change was gratifying. He is not even the slightest bit remorseful or "in love" with Liz -- he's a cold killer, and he's extremely dangerous.
Other people I've talked to really seem to think the show is setting up for a romance between Ressler and Liz. I just... I sincerely hope not. This show has been really good with the writing so far, and I would just really hate for them to put two young, white agents together just because they're "pretty"... I think that would ruin the show personally. I suppose they would do that for ratings or something. But if there must be romance, there are so many more interesting avenues they could explore.
LOL HQ Stark-"RIP Juicy" !
The writers really got rid of a lot of the characters. All the more room for new ones to come in.
I will miss Jolene and the Cowboy. I think they were "just getting started".
I agree with Jason that it was out of character for Mako to ram Ressler and Audrey's car.
My first reaction when Audrey got shot was that she was pregnant. Maybe the baby wasn't Ressler's though.
Loved Mako's head in a box at the end! Nice touch.
And yes, how is Ressler going to get rid of it?
Have to watch again and maybe again. Love this show!
HQStark- don't be too sad. Juicy is listed as being in the next episode although it may be flashbacks.
A.M.- the age 12 for the girl whose photo Red took from The Stewmaker's album came from IMBD. She was listed as born in 2001. All the cast members of the show are listed, no matter how small their part. Even The Girl WIth Bubbles is listed. Although this actress was biologically 12 when she filmed the show that doesn't mean that was the age the writers' intended her to look in the show. I agree with the mother of a ballerina that a child would not have the leading role in Swan Lake. Maybe likes to think that she would have danced that part and so imagines that is his daughter dancing.
Great episode!
Tom just goes home all bloody and no one sees him? And did he cut himself? He was scrubbing his hands when alone in the shower and then there's still blood on them when he holds Liz? And she doesn't notice? C'mon! The blood was in the bottom of the shower. if his hands were that bloody, then how did he get into their apt., without getting blood everywhere-like on the doorknob to get in? Liz noticed nothing?
Remember how Red said that there was "a war coming." I think that we have been seeing Red put people away who are not on his side of the war and he is assembling his own team using the FBI. Notice how he is making each person on the task force become loyal to him. First, he got Liz, then he got Aram (by clearing him as the mole), and next he got Cooper(last episode). He got Malik by sparing her life after outing her as the mole. And now, he has Ressler. Ressler was probably the hardest person to gain as an ally because he has high moral standards. Even though Red saved his life, he needed the events of the last episode to really bring him in. When they were in the box together Red and Ressler did bond a bit, but it took them going through a similar even to really seal the deal.
The Tom Bond storyline had more action, but the Ressler story line was actually very rich in character development and had some great dialog between characters. Up till this point we have seen Liz going home to cry along, but in this last episode we saw Ressler alone crying in his empty apartment. Something that makes Ressler, Red, and Liz so deeply similar is the loss of being a parent. Liz had that moment when she decided not to adopt the baby, we saw it in Red's face as he watched the ballet his daughter once performed, and now we saw the loss with Ressler finding the pregnancy test. The lack of children makes us see how the characters are deeply alone and seem to have empty futures ahead.
One other thing, people have speculated that Ressler might be Red's son, but I don't think that is the case, I think Red sees Ressler as being like Red BEFORE he lost his family. Ressler had been tracking Red for a long time, and Red knows quite a great deal about him. Red could have taken Ressler out at any time or ask that he not be on the task force, he could have let Ressler die in the box and he didin't have to warn Ressler that someone was coming for him in this episode. I think that as time goes by Red has always thought Ressler was a good guy and sees that he is someone who can protect Liz. If anything were to happen to Red, Red knows that Ressler would be there to keep Liz safe. That's not to say they have to get romantic anytime soon, but if they bonded a bit and then at the very end of the series got together that would be fine, but pushing them together just for the sake of romance wouldn't feel right. Romantic tension between characters is also a part of suspense and that is why many shows fizzle out once major characters get together.
I'm not sure if I'm actually going to most this....it seems so contrary to everyone's opinion.....bc everyone loved this episode
While this particular episode was excellent 're finally exposing tom as extremely dangerous and I liked the evolution in the relationship b/w ressler and Red - and the mutual understanding between the two ....
Parts of this episode were really really hard to watch. The violence started at the very beginning and continued through. This was about revenge. The blacklisted's revenge for losing his brother/business, Red's revenge for losing his family and Ressler's desire for revenge for looking Audrey. It was about how hate comes after substantial loss.
I think the saving grace is in Ressler choosing not to go down that road. He represented the alternative.
The only other episode that I responded to in the same way was the one where Red killed everyone who had even a small part in setting g him up and causing the loss of his friend in "Anslo Garrick"
Yes, this was a fantastic episode in time ways, but it also was very disturbing on a completely different level.
Ahhh, what the hell...I think I'll hit the "post" button and
That last post was me - the one talking about how disturbing this episode was
I love the misdirection of focusing on Liz when it's Ressler who is Red's son. I'd sure like to see more of Red and less of Tom. Tom seems like a whiner, not a bad@**. I didn't like the "cowboy" character. Anyone who disrespects Red has got to go! I miss Red's repartee. The only great comment was: "The pot meets the kettle, at last!" Fun! The only strong woman character that I like in the show is "Mr. Kaplan". She's fabulous. All others, including Liz, are weak. I hope they make Liz stronger or showcase more of her "criminal" skills. My favorite show!
Good points foxtrot. Yes, Red has been building loyalty from the team and I agree that the development bw Red and Ressler was important and key.
Here's a theory for y'all:
Imagine this: Lizzie comes home. Sees a drop of blood on the floor, a smear near the light switch. Hears the shower running, smells blood. Takes off her clothes and enters the shower - sees blood running into the drain, sees maybe bruises or scratches on Tom's back. Thinks about everything Red has said, thinks about Tom's "go box," starts fitting things together click click click ... and PRETENDS to seduce him in the shower. But inside, she knows she knows she KNOWS.
I mean, she made up that story with Madeline Pratt about seducing the store clerk (which she later admitted was a lie), and apparently she is a master grifter with a background even the FBI didn't know about so ...
I have high hopes that Lizzie isn't as stupid as the writers sometimes make her out to be. In fact, I suspect Lizzie had her own motivation and hidden agenda for wanting to become a FBI profiler.
I loved how Tom had drawn out a rough schematic of the Post Office from his one visit there. That makes me believe it was him, not Diane, who sold out the PO to Anslo Garrick.
To Fergy, this is just my opinion but I thought Ressler was referring to Red bringing Audrey back to him as more of an indirect consequence. Like because Anslo Garrick attacked the Post Office to go after Red, Ressler got injured. Because of the injury Audrey was called as his next of kin. So because of Red, Ressler and Audrey's paths cross. Also to Jason the author, I thought when Audrey was shot it wasn't a stray bullet but deliberate. And to those who think Ressler went looking for Audrey in her apartment, I thought he went to his apartment. She ws bringing some stuff to His apartment and he wanted to get her out and take her someplace safe.
Fantastic episode. One of the best 3 yet. Hate it when unique characters like Juicy & Cowboy have to be "offed" but thats the way they write these type of series. Interesting that Tom has shown the most character growth - from docile house-husband to unstoppable monster. I love it. Other than Ressler and Lipstick Liz nobody in the "Post Office" has shown much growth. Tom gives new meaning to 'The Enemy Within'...... and now Ressler has new motivation as he's being driven by hate!
RE: Jason's paragraph 3: the cut is to Liz and Tom's house (not Red's)...
Cutting off Ressler's truck DOES fit the story - it is the 'western" way not the honorable "eastern" way.
You commentary is turning a finely written and acted drama into a tawdry soap. Too bad you are missing all the symbolism in the story.
If James Spader does not win an Emmy Award for his portrayal of Reddington then there is something greatly amiss in the TV industry.
so much for my two cents worth...
Side note from Jason – Mako had seemed very clever and deliberate until now. Ramming a car and trying to shoot Ressler just feels wrong for him. It does not follow his "honorable" history with the other deaths. This is poor storytelling.
After the first two deaths Tanida realized that the FBI had probably figured out what he was up to and started getting more violent. The revelation later on that he is looking for his brothers killer means that he's also probably frustrated he hadn't found the real culprit yet. Plus, its possible that he was planning on something more subtle with Ressler but then saw him and Audrey running and realised he needed to act right away
Why did Red call the person delivering the news that "both of them are gone", Cowboy?
I am predicting that Liz is the daughter of whoever murdered Red's family. He entrusted her to his old friend, who raised her. Tom said last night (pointing at his wall o' pictures & strings) that Red's organization had been funneling money to the adoptive father for years. She was Red's leverage to keep that criminal organization at bay. Perhaps he cold-bloodedly executed the person who murdered his family (as he warned Resseler not to do), and set fire to the person's house, but took a young, innocent Liz with him because he could not bear the to do the same thing to Liz as had been done to his daughter.
Red must not know who Tom is, or Tom would be dead by now. Red is just suspicious of him. Tom knows exactly who Red is. When Red made ominous threats to Tom about "always watching from the shadows", Tom inwardly knew what Red was threatening, but kept a blank face.
Tom has not been assigned to assassinate Red. Liz is Tom's "target." But why did Tom keep calling Liz his wife, even when he didn't need to? Why did Tom refuse to sleep with Lucy, even before he knew that she was a fellow secret operative? Why did Lucy/Jolene get angry and say "wrong answer" when Tom refused to sleep with her, and said he loved his wife? Was she testing him for the possibility that maybe he was (from their point of view) emotionally compromised? Why did Tom want Liz to move to Nebraska? To get her away from -everybody- messing around in their lives? One criticism: Doesn't this episode make Liz look like the worst FBI agent ever? Or is the show assuming we remember that she is only a recent, green probie?
After watching the episode twice, Jolene was definitely wrapped up in plastic right next to the Cowboy. It would be an interesting twist to think that she might have survived and manages to escape later but... Tom has shown he is a very proficient killer, he must have checked to make sure she was dead.
Doesn't it seem as if Lizzie let Jolene borrow her wig, especially in the garage when Tom and Jolene are talking the first time? Why was it so important for the writers to make Jolene and Liz look so similar?
Can we assume that Jolene did NOT work for the same group as Tom did? She did NOT know what he was talking about when he mentioned the alchemist and Wujing. She was really studying Tom's wall of photos carefully and did not recognize the post office. If memory serves, Jolene's flash drive (that Cowboy found) showed pictures of people that Red knew (like Dembe and Grey) and places Red had been, but did not show any Blacklisters. Also, Jolene did not want Tom to continue questioning Cowboy, she kept interrupting Tom. What was she so afraid of?
Most chilling line (and scene) was when Liz is showering with Tom, kisses him and says "Kiss me Tim or whatever your name is..." Little does she know that her joke is literally the truth, that Tom is not his real name, that Tom Keen does not exist.
The shower scene... did anyone else notice that odd look on Liz's face? It was as if she was playing a part as well. For a moment, a look crossed her face, of worry or concern, as if she knew Tom had been up to no good, that something had happened. Could it be she knows he is not who he pretends to be, and she is waiting for things to play out as well? Again, I am just hoping she is not as clueless as she appears.
Anyone notice that the two main characters from "the wire" got wacked last night? And LOL at having the guy who played a professional hit man on "the wire" in the role as a FBI agent.
Lizzie looked really beautiful out in the snow.
Foxtrot, I enjoyed your comments. So concise, realistic and agreeable.
~TamiJ, I also agree that Audrey's visit to Donald in the hospital was due to her being listed as next of kin. It was sad they had only three more months together.
The wreck obviously gave Audrey a concussion (blood from her head all over the window) and she was unwittingly just trying to get to Donald. It was pitiful that what she thought would bring her relief and safety, ended in her death from a stray bullet.
Seven deaths in such a short time last night. I experienced so many feelings during the course of this episode. If you read my earlier comments, you know what I mean. When I finally went to bed, I was still trying to process what happened and my feelings about it all. Kind of like when I was younger and read a Stephen King novel, but even more intense.
Great episode!!!!,,,,,but I hated to see Juicy "eliminated". Whereas "The Cowboy" had pretty much served his original purpose, I think Juicy's character still had a lot more potential for development. I go back to an earlier scene with Red and "The Cowboy" where Red said that Juicy had "faked her death" on at least two other occasions, so maybe there's a glimmer of hope that she's still around.
I agree that Red is one-by-one, slowly drawing all of the "Post Office" crew into his inner circle. I also think that Raymond Reddington sees much of himself in Donald Ressler as a younger man and I see their relationship being forged stronger in each episode since "Anslo Garrick", (possibly to the point where Ressler comes in to save Red's life in some future "sticky wicket".)
I can't wait to see what Red is going to do to protect Lizzy when he finds out what Tom Bond did to "The Cowboy" and supposedly to "Juicy". (I'm still holding out hope to the last).
I also agree with Kate! Lucy has got to be aware of Tom's sleaziness by now, and SHE is just playing HIM.
.........."dontwannascreenname" is absolutely correct in assserting that something is "amiss" in the TV industry. When is the last time that anybody had to watch a reality show (i.e. "The Voice", "DWTS", "The Bachelor") 3 or 4 times to see minute details that they missed the first, second, or third time they watched the show?
A brief thought that crossed my mind was that Liz and Tom relationship is going to become sort of Mr and Mrs Smith. She can't be this blind (as they made her seem last night), after Red had warned her about Tom so many times and after finding his go box. We don't know anything about how they met and "fell in love" and got married. I ca't understand what part adopting a child had in their life, it just doesn't make sense. There has to be a lot more to it than we know.
A couple of episodes back a felt like a saw a spark between Liz and Ressler but like another person said, it's too early and it will give the show a premature closure. A lot of people are upset that Audrey had to be killed but I think that they needed something to make Ressler's character more involved and not just Liz's partner.
I am in love with this show. It just consumes me and I don't want to stop watching.
They only comment I have is why make Cowboy and Red's bodyguard, Dembe look so much alike. I must have missed something but I had to rewind twice last night thinking it was Dembe who got killed until a friend told me today. Does anyone else think they actually looked like twins? Also what was up with Swan Lake and the dancer turning into a child dancer in Red's eyes. I must have ate something bad...I missed a lot.
WOW.....lots of new info. Tom Bond is totally exposed now. He works "out of Berlin" but we still don't know for whom. We still don't know why he is assigned to Liz and needs to watch her so closely that he marries her. Looks like Liz has some skeletons hidden in her closet we don't know about yet. I was wrong.......Tom. Knew who Red was at the hospital in Nebraska. I don't think Red knew that Tom knew who he (Red) was. Tom definitely acted like he didn't know Red at that point.
I've only seen it once, and have to view it some more.
Maybe that's why cowboy always wore a hat.
I don't know why but the WOW comment above from "anonymous" is from me.
I wonder if Juicy was working for Red ... he's been looking for her, perhaps she was on his payroll and now is off the grid? Red could've been using her to see what, exactly, Tom was. And how much of a danger he would have been to Red's precious Lizzie. Juicy has a habit of slipping off her leash, as it were, perhaps even going rogue, to try to get out of Red's plans for her. He looked really disappointed with both Juicy and the Cowboy going "missing."
Anon - Tom knew who Red was. And Red knows who Tom is ... but I think Red doesn't know who does Tom work for. Perhaps Juicy was supposed to find out.
Anna, as always you pick up on things that are rattling around in my head. The possibility that Jolene did not work for the same people as Tom, showing interest without letting him know how interested she really was. He was such a braggart, saying he sat next to Red and could have put a bullet in his head. She reminded him that was not his job, as I remember. Maybe she would have liked to say something more? What did she think the Cowboy might say to Tom? Something about her interest in Red? I'm hoping against hope,that she was able to
The most chilling line of the night was exactly as you said, but I was focused on Tom's face and the blood mixed with water on Liz's back from his hands.
Keep in mind that just because characters are dead doesn't mean that we can't learn more about them in flashbacks or that their disappearances won't have a ripple effect;) While Juicy and that Cowboy were fun characters getting rid of them after a short time makes room for new characters and keeps their story lines from getting dull. Better they leave us wanting more, than are happy to see them go.
We can't forget that there are two narratives we've been given. The "official" story is that Red was the naval officer being groomed for admiral who didn't come home one night. That would mean that he abandoned his wife and daughter (as Lizzy has on occasion referenced). That would also mean they're out there somewhere, alive. And it would mean that he had only one daughter. There is no "official" story that they were killed or that anything else ever happened to them. The other narrative we have is the one Red tells about "the Farmer" who comes home one day to find everything he loved taken from him, including his "children" - plural. That was similar to the story he told in the M. Pratt episode. And that's the story Diane Fowler confirmed as the true one before he killed her. It's also similar to what we're led to believe when he visits his old family home. He said, "I raised my family in this house." He didn't say he raised his daughter there. So we know that in all likelihood, he had more than one child. There was much discussion on this board after the Stewmaker episode about how many pictures were missing in the Stewmaker's album. And yes, it's true that he never killed anyone himself. He disposed of bodies. If he had been hired to dispose of the bodies of all Redi's family, then there were something like 8 or 9 victims (wife, parents?, children). He mentioned crops burned and if I recall, gave the impression most of the victims were blown apart which would explain the absence of photos of only the one daughter. The Stewmaker spoke at length to Lizzy about how he was now "evolving" to the next level - actually killing someone, she being his first. We can conclude that he probably disposed of the pieces of most of Red's family, and took a photo of the one daughter who died but was of one piece. Freeze framing the girl dancing next to the photo Red took from the Stewmaker's album, it does indeed look like the same girl, and the one in the photo even appears to be a few years older, as she would have been in 1990 when she was murdered. The fact that the marks on the wall indicated the height of a three year old - that could just be Red thinking of Lizzy, the only one who survived. The paneling could have been covering all the other children's markings. We don't really have enough to go on to conclude one way or the other. What we do know is that they've given us more to believe Red is the "Farmer" in his story than they've given us to believe the "official" story of him never returning home, with no mention of any harm ever having come to his wife and one daughter. And if the Farmer story is his story, then we know he had several children and that they or several of them were killed about the time he left Lizzy with his friend. We know the killing involved a fire and that Lizzy received that scar when she was about that same age. So - some things coming more into focus but still a long ways off from being clear.
Foxtrot, I thought you were right on target about how Red is slowly bringing everyone on the FBI team to his side, one way or the other. I hadn't thought of it that way so thanks!
I miss the Cowboy, though I knew his story arc wasn't going to last very long. I really enjoyed Lance Reddick in "The Wire", so it was good to see him. He just had the perfect look for that part.
I think I agree with those who think Red's daughter is definitely dead. The play is a way of keeping her alive, keeping her frozen in time. If Liz were Red's daughter he wouldn't have that need to keep her alive. I'm guessing that she may have played the role in a school play or that she had a minor part and her talent was snuffed out.
BTW, I really enjoy not only the recap but the comments. You guys really add to my viewing pleasure. Thanks everyone!
And btw - excellent episode! This was the first of this new year that had the same feel and quality to it that the ones before Christmas break had. I'm rehooked. After having almost deciding to quit!
I kept hoping the little dancing girl was a flashback in Red's mind of a young Lizzie, but the blonde hair color sort of blew that out of the water. I'm disappointed. I really wanted Lizzie to be Red's daughter. But then there was the fire Lizzie remembers and her burn scars. What's with those?
Why is everyone so certain that Cowboy is dead? They didn't actually show Tom shoot him. I think there is some connection there....hum.....
Somewhat confused and disappointed. Did not want to see Cowboy go, that's my disappointment. Seeing Cowboy at the end after being killed, unless they went bad in time, was the confusing part for me. You are right about Tom, I want to see him get what's coming to him the hard way. However, I don't want to wait another year.
The mythology has finally left the starting gate. I felt as though I was watching a new version of this show.
Jason was right in his assessment that we didn't give a fig about Mako Tanida. But, it did accomplish its mission in that we saw Ressler come to life, which is something that was previously lacking (in my opinion). It has also paved the way for a Liz and Ressler union. Chemistry speaks volumes in any show, and can work early on, if skillfully written. I have to add that I thought Red was priming Ressler for his journey to The Dark Side at one point, when he issued his caveat of the nefarious stages of the hatred that is borne of "indescribable" grief. Red's pain has festered for so long he appears to wear it like a badge of honor, and he genuinely seemed to not want Ressler to slither down the same path.
Much ado about nothing apparently concerning "Juicy." I was very surprised she was offed so quickly since there was so much mystery surrounding her existence. But then again, we have been introduced to body doubles and DNA switcheroos, so we may not see the last of her. I'm almost counting on it. Tom is also a goner. How and when Liz will dispense her justice remains to be seen, but it'll be…..Juicy!
Tom's thumb is cut, you can see it in the shower. or should I say what Lizzie said,..."Kiss me Tim, or whatever your name is".
The lighting in this show is great. There was light just on Red's right eye in the car talking to Liz. And then at the end at the ballet-the light was coming from behind his head and it lit his head like a halo-the "angel" good side of Red, when he's thinking about his family.
Why was Ressler telling Audrey about the case when everything is supposed to be classified?
I also agree that Mako's slamming into Ressler's car was a little out of character.
Ressler used the same line that Emily did in Revenge" on SUnday---"I'm going to kill them all".
Theory du jour: "much ado about nothing apparently concerning Juicy." I don't agree. I think she was the key to Red finally putting the pieces together, re: Tom. He knew Tom was having an affair with Gina. He knew he killed the agent. But it seems he didn't know who sent Tom until he could connect him to Jolene. We know this from what he said to Jolene: "You really don't get it, do you, what he's doing." (Referring to Red...) "Wujing. The Alchemist... The cases. Reddington used them to track you down. To get to you, to me. That means that you are compromised. And if you're compromised then it's only a matter of time before your trail leads to me." And he was right, it did. Red told the Cowboy it has already played out, which he concluded when he saw the photos of Tom and Jolene together. Red was using the cases to find out if Lucy was still alive. And then he was able to connect her to Tom. He now knows that Tom is not just a bad guy, but working for the same people Red apparently knows Lucy worked for.
Foxtrot-I like your comments at 2:26pm. You are correct. They should leave us "wanting more".
I would like the show to get back to episodes like the two-part "Anslo Garrick" episode.
If Spader wasn't on it, I doubt I would be watching. No one is up to his caliber except Alan Alda and the character who played Anslo. Maybe it's time to find criminals closer to #1. I don't want Red to get bored.
Laurie1102-If you watch again, bear the end, when Tom is dragging the bodies to the grave, you see the plastic open a little and you see the Cowboy's face. He is dead.
Did Jolene work with Tom or was she pretending to once he assumed she did so that she could get info out of him? Last week I thought she worked for Fitch and just took advantage of Tom's assumption she worked for the same group. This week, I changed my mind. I think she works for Berlin, but their tasks were different so the info they had as different. Jolene's mission was following Red. Tom's was keeping tabs on Lizzy. Tom said he stopped reporting in after he was stabbed and lizzy found his box. So no one in Berlin would have known about the post office or the other blacklisters Tom was keeping tabs on. One of the reasons they sent Jolene was because Tom had gone silent and they were worried he had turned on them and was no longer going to target Lizzy because he actually fell in love with her, which is why Jolene said 'wrong answer', when Tom said he loved his wife. Had he followed up on that with, "no, I really do love her, screw Berlin", she'd have killed him. Once he realized Berlin sent her to see if he abandoned the mission, he had to prove to her and through her to Berlin, that yes, he's still there, he's still on the job and this is all he's collected since he's gone silent.
As to why Tom killed Jolene. Jolene's mission my not only have been to check up on Tom. Maybe Berlin lost confidence in Tom and sent her to take over the mission and once she was close to Lizzy, to get rid of Tom. Tom would have figured out that he was going to be her target as soon as she established her own bff relationship with Lizzy so he killed her first. The Cowboy figured it out pretty quickly. Doesn't seem like Jolene was too bright, he told her what would happen if she called and she went ahead and called anyway. As for the Cowboy, when he demonstrated his dislike for Red he no longer became likeable, probably done so the viewers wouldn't miss him too much after he was gone.
I wonder if the ballet dancer daughter's body was not at the house when Red got there. There was blood but maybe her body was missing. How else would the Stewmaker get it? I can't imagine Red just leaving his child's body behind and he did say all he saw was blood. I think for the next 20+ years Red was looking for closure and when he got it with the Stewmaker photo, he went back and blew up the house. Maybe he doesn't know what happened to his wife. And if both bodies were gone then I go back to my comments from last week's thread that maybe there was a substitute family put in the house to tell the Navy that Red abandoned them, otherwise why wouldn't they assume they all went away together? Why assume he abandoned them if no one was in the house? Unless all the records of that evening were changed down the line, in the 4 years before Red showed back up on the radar as a criminal and anFBI file started on him. Birth records of surviving children erased, a planted story that he abandoned his family. Fitch's group could have done that for Red, before they and Red went their separate ways.
Gina Z was also from Berlin. Tom and Gina probably did know each other and probably worked for the same group, and Red was probably right that they were lovers. He was right about everything else concerning Tom. Maybe Red knew Tom's mission was to watch Liz and not kill her so he didn't feel the need to kill to protect her, and that he could get more value out of the situation just observing him. But you can see why he'd warn Lizzy away from him.
Jolene and Audrey are both out of the picture now. Neither was Red's daughter or Lizzy's sister. And for me both stories endings lacked umph - Jolene shows up, meets Tom and is killed in 3 episodes? That could have gone on much longer. And Audrey was only in 2 episodes, we never really got to know her. Her leaving the car and running towards a man with a gun was completely unrealistic but it was a quick way for the writers to write her off. Maybe the writers thougth that the conjecture was diminishing the story they were going for and wanted to focus the viewers back in the right direction. I won't miss either of them. I will miss Lance Reddick, he died too soon in the other dimension on Fringe too.
BJ i agree w you that jolene was sjper important to red so he could nail Tom. thanks for typing out the narrative between tom and Jolene 're "reddington uses the cases to track you down. You are compromised." That scene was important, imho. And it zipped by....
But but but how did red know which cases would bring Jolene out....why those particular cases?
in the Gina episode just after ressler and Gina tussle in the elevator and he get her phone, there is a voice mail message from "Berlin" on her phone.
I think it's safe to assume Gina and Tom work for the same organization. Although, it remains uncertain if Jolene worked for the same agency.
Anna wrote: [Audrey's death was totally unnecessary to the plot, and very upsetting to watch, compounded by the pregnancy test Donald finds later. What were the writers thinking? It was a thoughtless and unimaginative way to drum up some sympathy for Ressler from viewers. (I could not locate my two cats after I leapt to my feet and screamed "Stay in the car! Stay in the car you fool!" ) Audrey should have known better, stay in the car, let Donad take care of the bad guys. Agony.
Thought of you Redravenous, when Red sends Ressler the thoughtful gift at the end. Nice touch writers.]
Anna…..don't you think that you think that the "head in a box" was a nice touch because Tanida killed Audrey? So it did serve a purpose didn't it? I know I felt that way.
Anna wrote: [Anna wrote:
Sorry, that was me also as SavAnna. It took so long for the first comment to appear, that I thought it didn't post.]
Thanks for solving that mystery for me Anna. I thought I was seeing double there for a while.
Fergy wrote: [The ballerina that Red was flashing back to was his daughter in 1987. The program in his hand said March 22, 1987. I went back and froze the frame to see. The performers said that Red was their largest donor and that his daughter had danced in the ballet. So in 1987 she danced in the ballet and in Dec 1990 she was killed and her body was disposed of by the Stewmaker.]
Also, Red must have the ballet recreated each year on March 22 for the purpose of his reliving a very memorable day in the life of his daughter. When he gave the girl (I assume the ballet teacher) the envelope with the money in it, he said as he departed "I'll see you on the twenty second".
I think the war Red is referring to is between Fitch's group and the Berlin group. Red is just seeing it coming before Fitch does, because if Fitch realized Berlin was starting to make a power play, they never would have antagonized Red. Now Red will be on neither team- both are his enemies, and neither enemy of an enemy is going to be his friend (referencing that commercial with the domino effect soldiers falling down).
Fitch and/or the US gov't was bringing in Victor to this country, possibly with Red's help in the way of Gray, who was seen in pictures with Victor, and who was probably also working for Fitch, unbeknownst to Red. Berlin, via Tom and Gina, killed him before he could get settled in and exchange info with the US gov't. That may have been the opening shot in the war. Red knew Tom was at that killing, either at the time through Gray, or after seeing the file the kidnapped NSA agent gave him access to before turning it over to Lizzy. Red also knew Tom and Gina were lovers. So it's safe to assume Red has known about Tom and Berlin for a while, and that he knew Tom was not tasked with killing her and so was not an IMMEDIATE danger to Lizzy. He may have worried that Jolene otoh would be an immediate danger if the mission changed out of Berlin and once she and Tom made contact and he saw they were working together and Jolene was no longer undercover to Tom as a substitute teacher, Red saw enough. Lizzy's life was now in danger and he wanted Jolene out of the picture immediately.
It occurred to me that Red doesn't know if Tom killed the Cowboy and Jolene or something else happened. In his mind the possibility exsits that maybe Jolene killed the cowboy and took off or vice versa. I think Red sends the cops to Tom in next week's episode so he can get them to do some digging to find out if they're dead or only one is dead or if both are being held somewhere. Or if Tom killed them both. Unless Red still has separate surveillance on Tom that is still active. But them why would Dembe say they went missing - you'd think if Red had someone watching, Dembe would know the outcome. ???
I'm wondering if the outfit out of Berlin is some holdover from the Communist days of Eastern Europe?
Come to think of it, I think had Fitch not attacked the post office, Red was planning on siding with them against Berlin. When Red saw Tom married to Lizzy, and knew Tom worked for Berlin, he realized he needed to come out of the cold and get back in touch with the US gov't to stop Berlin. Maybe along the way he was planning on bringing Fitch into the picture. But all that changed when Fitch sent Anslo after him. At that point Red realized the enemy of his enemy is sometimes still an enemy.
Now the group fighting both Fitch and Berlin will be the post office crew. As others have commented, he's got Lizzy on his side, Aram on his side, Meera on his side, Cooper on his side and now Ressler on his side. And Diane out of the way. His army has been formed. And the war is beginning.
Red tells Ressler, "There are few that understand love and loss more than I."
This episode does seem to finally put to rest the idea that Red's family may still be alive. Red tries to comfort Ressler in the only way he knows how, by telling him he has been through the same thing. But what things "seem" to be are often the least reliable on the Blacklist.
Red would not be marking the anniversary of his daughter's performance in Swan Lake without fail for 27 years if his daughter was still out there, somewhere, still alive. He even clutches the same old program, from 1987. Whether or not his daughter actually performed in the ballet is debatable. Perhaps he brought her to see the production, and he is envisioning her dancing the lead role. Or maybe the woman in charge of performances over the years,(the mother of the current day ballerina Christina), arranged for Red's daughter to perform on that stage with her dance class, as a favor to a good friend, Raymond Reddington, 27 years ago.
Even if we accept that his daughter is dead, that does not mean that his family suffered the same fate. Why is Red searching for the truth? The "truth" is something Red wants to know "more than anything in the world."
Right before Red killed Diane, she tried to save her life by offering him information: "I know the truth, Red. About that night, about what happened to your family. Do you want to know the truth?"
And Red's story to Madeline: "All I saw was blood. All there was was blood."
Why would there still be a "search for the truth" if Red found his family murdered? As A.M., and others have mentioned, Red may have found a house full of blood, but no bodies. Red may have arrived late, after bodies had been removed, or after the injured had escaped. He probably left traumatized, lucky to escape with his life, but not knowing the fate of his family.
Perhaps Red still grieves the one daughter because he found proof that she is dead. Maybe the fate of the rest of his family, possibly other children, is still uncertain, and that is what his search is about. Red presents himself as a man of great knowledge, assets and capabilities. Why hasn't he found out the truth by now? Did he stop looking because he knew his grown children would now be much safer without the knowledge of who their real father was?
After I typed this, I saw your post, AM, and I guess we were thinking along the same lines,
Yes, Hank that was me, SavAnna, sorry. Some times I've had trouble posting, so this time I got a little impatient! And even though I scared my cats by yelling at my TV (when Audrey gets out of the truck), after my cats came out, I scared them again. I squealed with delight seeing that head! I suppose you're right Hank, killing off Ressler's buddies was bad enough, but losing Audrey was personal to Donald, so that made the gesture by Red that much more meaningful. What in the world could Red give to Ressler? Ha! Should have known.
Audrey with Ressler, just like Jolene pursuing Red, had so much potential, that's what disappoints me most. But I do think this was one of the better episodes,( after the brilliance of the Anslo Garrick episodes, they were the best). There was no filler, no boring scenes, even Ressler's story was riveting. I thoroughly enjoyed every minute. I don't have anything else to nitpick over, Hank
Tons of great comments. Obviously, people are watching this tremendous show just as much as me. So I'll offer one far-out theory and it might be time to issue a ***POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT***.
No one has breached the subject of a potential relationship between Tom & Red. Tom has now become the most intriguing part of the show. Think about it!!
Okay, can't stay silent any more. This is a really good comment forum about Blacklist. I have seen a few others, but this is the best!
Somewhere I saw the theory that Liz IS Red's daughter, but not the daughter of his wife--that she was fathered by him with another woman. So, for a while, I have wondered if Lizzy and Donald Ressler are actually 1/2 sibs. The connection between them turns out to be as bro and sis. Haven't seen that proffered yet, though I may have missed it.
Keep up the great work, loyal watchers! Jason and you all make the show exponentially more interesting.
Seymour kriminals - I love your name!
Naaaa....I don't know if I could jump on the Red-tom relationship bandwagon....
But am I remembering right or when tom was talking to Jolene, did he say something about Red's coming into Liz's life periodically throughout the years??
A.M., I really like your theory from 5:45 pm. It seems right on.
As we know, pretty much every word spoken on the show has some deliberate meaning. The ballerina told Red that dancers smoke instead of eating. Have there been any characters who have smoked on the show? If so, could there be a connection between them and Red's daughter? Too far fetched?
Chompstick, funny you mentioned smoking... because that scene did seem a little odd, mentioning smoking as a diet aid. I was wondering... perhaps the fire that Liz has flashbacks about...could have been started by a cigarette?
Anybody have a theory on how Liz, Red, & Tom all passed FBI polygraph tests when it's clear they all have prior knowledge and/or contact about each other and were lying? Liz seemed the most innocent at first but it's clear she didn't tell the whole truth. Now Tom appears to be the biggest liar of the bunch.
Mr. Steed, I'll take a shot at your question. I don't think Liz knew Red or that Tom was a spy (obviously) so she didn't lie about either on her polygraph. But I'm sure she lied about a lot other than that, specifically her criminal past and her parents. Red lied about everything, what else would we expect:). And Tom is obviously trained well enough to trick a lie detector, which just shows how intensive his training must have been because he was/is a darn good spy! That wall, the set up he had, all the info on the Blacklist site and each of the cases, figuring out that Red sent the Cowboy and that Jolene was probably tasked to kill him eventually - Tom Bond earned his name.
All right B.C. The search party is being sent, where are you? Did you change your name? This was such a GOOD episode. Tom admitted he switched the items in the box, wasn't that great hearing him finally admit that after you suspected that all along?
I knew Tom was going to show us how bad he was... I didn't expect a double homicide. Somehow I think Tom will continue to fly under the radar as Mr. InnocentSchoolTeacher because the scenes between he and Liz will be very dramatic from now on, to say the least.
The 'anonymous' answer to Mr. Steed before Anna's comment was me.
And Anna, I've been looking for BC too. BC - where are you?
Symbol on box and scar: If you turn the jagged Y-shaped carving on the box and Lizzie's scar "upside down" so that the V of the Y is at the bottom (like legs), the symbol looks so very much like the symbol of Berlin- the Bear.
Good one on the Bear symbol, after the second episode I also thought that it was a type of group marking on Lizzy's wrist. Anyway love the show but I don't like the breaks, the December Break, the Olympics Break and this last Break, it is kind of like a boyfriend who doesn't call for two weeks and them comes back thinking everything is dandy. Then I need to remember everything we had before.
I am glad Tom is out but I would have liked to know sooner, the drag on was just too long, like when Lizzy's father died I think we could have found out then or the episode after what the connection to Red was, I still would have tuned in and at least I would have known something. And I hated to see J go, everytime we think we are going to get answers the person that has them dies!
Who is Liz exactly? Why does Tom have to kill her? Could she have repressed important memories from a part in her life that could be of benefit to certain parties ? I feel like she will be the sacrificial lamb in war that she doesn't even know is happening.
Also, what if Jolene and the cowboy aren't really dead? Perhaps Jolene specifically, because it's been mentioned that she's faked her own death several times. She seems very cunning and I wouldn't put it past her to come back. I have a feeling Red knows this too and he's waiting.
As I read the comments, I can tell that prior comments have not been read. Such a loss.
I love these recaps and all of the comments! Thanks for the insight and clues about things I may have missed. Love this show! In fact, when we lost power Sunday night due to yet another winter storm, one of the first things I thought was "but how will we watch The Blacklist tomorrow??". Ha!
I think it is well known Berlin is a clearing house for spies and things of foreign intrigue. In Tom's little box hidden in the floor there was a passport which had 'deutsch' printed in it. Berlin is probably not the headquarters for the side Tom is working for but just a waypoint or diversion.
Has anyone thought about why Red knows enough about Islam to be able to quote a tawhid for Dembe when it looked as Red's friend was going to be executed. Dembe said, "Good-bye my Brother." This is not something a muslim would say to an infidel. Does that mean Red's disconnect came during his time in Kuwait and was the beginning of a connection with elements in the middle-east leading him on a path to the dark side. Was Cooper also involved in this? I would not be surprised if the trail pointed east in the future.
I'm wondering if anyone has insights as to the significance of the choice of Swan Lake? The story of the ballet involves the Prince falling in love with the white swan (Odette), who was turned into a swan by an evil Wizard. At t a ball in a later act he instead is charmed by her sort-of-twin the black swan (Odile)...who is actually the Wizard's daughter and the Prince proclaims that he will marry Odile (thinking she is Odette)....etc etc etc.
Cute. Seems like we love our pleasures more than the inconvenient reality we all must face, like pesky power outages and raging blizzards.
There are a couple of comments regarding the return of Jolene. I tend to agree.
I got chills at the end while Red was riveted to the fantasy of his daughter as he clutched the program. Swan Laike has always given had that dramatic affect on me.
I was disappointed at the early demise of The Cowboy. He could've been an excellent foil for Red, considering he made it known how much he disliked him, and Red seemed humbled by him
Audrey's demise was rather rushed to me, like a loose end was being tied up, really quickly. It felt strange to me somehow. Were we supposed to care? I didn't. Ressler will just get darker and more brooding than he's always been.
In next week's promo, Liz is stalking Tom with gun in hand. Tom is hiding behind the door, looking like he's ready to attack. Will the Tom Bond story line end, or will he escape and go underground to be captured at a later point in the series? Guess it depends how well Ryan Eggold is liked by the show runners.
Thumbs up for this episode.
I have to say that the most poignant and penetrating part of Episode 16 for me was Red's voice in the background speaking to Ressler at the end of the episode. "There is nothing that can take the pain away. But eventually you will find a way to live with it. There will be nightmares and everyday when you wake up it will be the first thing you think about. Until one day it will be the second thing."
I always have to come here on Tuesday to read all the posts and then watch the episode again. So many things that I miss the first time around you guys point out to me.
A.M. Thanks for reminding us of that trailer that played during the long break, the enemy of the enemy. The show is definitely getting really interesting now.
I don't know why but I immediately thought that Jolene was not dead. Maybe she faked it while he was strangling her and then when he went to kill cowboy she got away. Maybe I am just hoping against odds that is what happened. Maybe she went as far as faking it long enough for him to bury her in the snow and will re-appear later. Someone said he would be smart enough to check her pulse etc. but you would also think he would be smart enough to clean himself up before going home too?
Fergy I got my ads mixed up! The one with the falling soldiers was not the one about the enemy. That was a 15 second trailer that showed up on the Facebook page. It starts with a close up of Red's face and he says: "In any contest the enemy of my enemy is my friend. But sometimes the enemy of my enemy is just another enemy. The trick is knowing the difference. "
I think that was the introduction of the theme of the 2nd half of the season. Fitch is an enemy of the Adversary as well, but after Anslo he can't be Red's friend, so he's just another enemy to Red now too.
Still waiting for BC and CES2, but with CES2 I'm not sure when the show airs in Australia so that could be why she hasn't commented yet.
A.M Mako Tanida airs tonight here. I will be back tomorrow
CES2, I'm glad you checked in. We were missing you and BC. I knew when you would be watching. Catch us up on your insight for this great episode.
~Neuropsychdoc, Red's declaration in the note to Ressler was indeed poignant, and so very, very true.
Unless posters have changed their "names", we have a lot more fans joining in this week. I guess you heard this place has more theories than all other blogs put together and multiplied by ten. Welcome.
That was no stray shot that killed Audrey, it was aimed. I don't think the attack on them was out of character, it was simply rushed. They were there to do it right and Don and Audrey piled into the car carrying bags like they were running so they took them while they could. The FBI could have disappeared them for forever.
Red ordered Juicy to be taken once he confirmed she worked for the same people as Tom. Juicy and the cowboy were both in that hole, looking at a freeze frame of the grave right now and you can see the cowboys face uncovered and to the right, her under plastic with the light shining on it.
Cannot comment yet...still! Just too much info to digest in 1 episode!! Thx for thinking of me though - should have time to post tomorrow - wowowowowow - sorry but my brain has asploded
I only discovered this blog a couple of weeks ago. I have really enjoyed reading all of the posts. I get ideas and hints about is happening, and it helps me to remember clues the writers are giving us. I watch each episode at least twice, but still miss details sometimes. There seems to be a common thread with the sequence of events. It seems to tie back to whatever Red is trying to achieve. When Mako Tanida was gone from the car at the end, I wondered who took him from the car? It happened so quickly that I had to think that Red already had someone there to take care of his disposal. Red seems to be very good at making the FBI agents all grateful to him for one reason or another. I also wondered if someone was being fooled into thinking Jolene or Cowboy (or both) were dead. Also, what was the significance of the rifle with the scope? Tom didn't want Jolene to pick it up. I can't wait to see next week's episode!
Around episode 4 I was asked what I thought about the show and I said I don't know what the show is about, we only know what Red is doing not why and why is what the show is about. What I think is going on. Considering the death of his family, I suspect Red was innocent of what he was accused of, if he was accused of anything when everything went bad, for the last 20 years he has bathed in the worst crime imaginable and schemed his way to the top just to get to where he knows who has killed his family. He may or may not know who that is now but he has and continues to play the long game. But he is closing on the endgame. I think the truest thing Red has ever said was in Ep 2 When he said the FBI worked for him. He took the Justice Dept woman out because she could control the FBI and she worked for Fitch, Red can't have that, he needs the FBI under his command not Fitch's. He has been giving up Blacklisters to bond them to him and gain power. Not just personally. Look at the last few episodes, everyone is commenting about what they have accomplished with awe. They are like rock stars professionally. Don't underestimate that. Red is recruiting an an Army for the War. Its his organization and FBI against the Adversary, who I suspect is an echelon above Berlin. But there is more to it than just revenge. We just know about the revenge at this point.
Doesn't it seem as if Tom the Terminator is making quite a few mistakes?
When Cowboy starts to follow Jolene, she is talking on a cell phone, then she tosses it into a trash receptacle. But later, Tom insists that she call Liz to "disengage." Didn't Tom make a mistake by having Jolene call Liz from that garage? Where did the phone come from, was it just another throwaway phone that Jolene was carrying?
Calls from cell phones can be traced back to the general area (tower) where the call was made. Even if Jolene used another throwaway phone, couldn't the FBI trace the call from the call Liz received on her own cell? Isn't that why they always show people tossing the phone after use, because the location can be traced after the call is made? A call made to Liz at home may be traced later, right back to that garage, if the phone is still at the garage.
Also, Tom kicks a cell phone across the floor of the garage when Cowboy starts to get out of the chair. When I watched the episode with closed captioning, it said one of the noises in that scene was a cell phone sliding across the floor. I wonder if Tom will overlook that phone later, in his haste to clean up his wall of photos.
Also, they didn't show how Tom and Jolene manage to drag the unconscious Cowboy into the garage in broad daylight. Should Tom have taken the risk of questioning Cowboy? Instead shouldn't he have just taken his photo and sent it to "Berlin" to find out Cowboys identity and clues as to who he worked for. This must mean Tom works alone, and has no intelligence to fall back on.
The moment he decided to bring Cowboy into that building, he knew Cowboy had to be eliminated. Also, as gross as it sounds, didn't Tom make a mistake by shooting Cowboy instead of using a "cleaner" method of killing him? Tom must have had a real mess to clean, as well as leaving behind lots of DNA evidence no matter how well he cleaned.
Also, Cowboy and his Caddy with Texas plates were parked right across from Tom's garage. Red will find that car eventually.
Still wondering why Tom killed Jolene, she seemed to be his ally, and could have been useful in the long run as another set of ears and eyes. If she did work for "Berlin," why would he kill one of their agents, and risk them sending more, or risk them putting a contract out on him in retaliation.
Also, as Fergy mentioned, why didn't he clean himself up before he went home? What if he had come through the door and Liz was already home for a change? The blood would have been hard to explain.
Over and over again, it appears that Tom the Terminator is not thinking clearly, he is behaving emotionally instead of rationally, and is making many mistakes along the way. Eventually, his mistakes will catch up to him.
If Tom was that bloody coming home, he would have blood on the doorknob or something in the house with a cut thumb. And what about the dog? Dogs sniff out blood. Why wasn't the dog coming around him? Did he kill the dog too? And where were his clothes? Did he throw them in the wash?
Another Anonymous wrote: [ As I read the comments, I can tell that prior comments have not been read. Such a loss.]
I agree with you Another Anonymous. It is disheartening to post an idea or make a point several times, only to have someone that has not read the prior comments come on to make the same point as if it is new or their own idea. That's the nature of these kinds of forums. Most people learn to take this all in stride. It's impossible to remember every single thing that has been mentioned, but sometimes it is painfully obvious that some people just do not bother to read the prior comments, or do not have the time to do so. They don't know what they are missing.
I actually read all the posts except when I''ve been away and come late to the party. Last week we had over 300 posts...so I can understand when some of us can't read them all. And because our site is so busy, I have to
Read a lot of posts in one read through.
That being said, you are right anonymous, I can forget all the individual posted info and tidbits. Sometimes I miss things the first times (or the first several times). I actually like it that sometimes different people pick up on similar threats
If I post something that gets overlooked, and then someone else picks it up -excellent! At least it gets picked up
I guess its kind of like the show itself....sometimds we need to rewatch episodes several times.
As JBlitz says, the shot to kill Audrey was deliberate by Tanida. I don't get the out of character or honour comments about Tanida. He was a heroine drug lord!
The program Red clutches reads Elise LeBlanc School of Ballet, so I'm thinking that Christina's mother is Elise LeBlanc. She probably was Red's daughter ballet teacher and in 1986 put on a SwanLake recital featuring Red's daughter, which is what Red is remembering. He has had the same show re- enacted by the same school, but now her daughter runs the school.
I have re- watched that moving scene and the brief face shot of his daughter is in almost the same head position of the Polaroid picture, and is a striking resemblance. There also appears to be a resemblance between the girl dancing and Donald.
We have long speculated that Red had more than one child. We know one daughter, played piano and danced ballet. Red was very proud of her and loved her dearly. He must have had her at a young age and she was the oldest in the family. Maybe his other children were several years younger and spared because they were too young to reveal anything about what happened in the house. Red's grief possibly is worsened by guilt at how and why she was killed. His memories focus on her loss because his other children are still alive and he knows who and where they are (Donald and Juicy).
After re-watching I do see that Jolene is wrapped in plastic in the grave. At first I wondered why cloth was used in her suffocation, rather than plastic or his bare hands. I thought that it seemed short and left the possibility she was unconscious. Living in Canada, one knows there is no easy digging into a frozen ground in the winter. Tom has them in a hole and is shovelling into loose gravel to cover them over, I think behind a tree trunk possibly. His car is parked only a short distance from the grave. Hmmmmm. If she is dead, it shouldn't take long to find her body.
Another good point made about the Cadillac. If Tom saw Cowboy in the car taking pictures, he would have to dispose of the car as well. Otherwise Dembe would have found it.
Why would Tom know that Red used the Wuging and Stewmaker cases to get to Jolene? How would he know that much about Red's activities or about Lucy Brooks? Another Hmmmmmmm
I agree w you JBiltz, Red's agenda, the entire blacklist is about more than just revenge. Red even says that to Kessler in the cage in the Anslo Garrett episode. Ressler asks him if all of this is about revenge and he says " revenge is too easy and over too quickly. I would hope for more than that"
We had 7 kills this week - 7 in one hour. I still find that disturbing. However, I remain hopeful that Ressler didn't succumb to the hate filled revenge.
SH- Good question about the dog! A while ago I was wondering what ever happened to Liz an Tom's dog? It appeared early on and now it seems to be gone! Did Tom "take out" the dog because it was on to him? Did they have to take the dog back to the pound because Liz though that she and Tom had too many issues in their relationship to have a dog? Clearly a couple that changes their minds about an adoption at the last second can't be stable enough to care for a dog, so lets hope that the SPCA took that dog and put it in a better home.
Sorry again that particular anonymous post was mine (ziji) ooops
Does anyone else think there is any significance to the 1986 and 1896 numbers in this episode? The numbers on Tom's secret place were prominently shown at least twice. And what was with the semi covered car in there? Had it been a motorcycle, that would have been interesting.
And lastly. ...... I got the impression that Jolene was trying to learn info Tom gathered about Red and was almost protecting of him. I don't believe she worked for "Berlin" but rather learned enough about him through the surveillance of his house with Liz to approach him in an effort to learn more about Red and possibly his connection to Liz. That's just my opinion.
I can get behind that Ressler could be Red's son for that the reasons that have been suggested....especially rare blood type
BUT in anslo gerrick Red puts a gun to Resslers head (when Liz has a gun to hers) Donald says "what are you going to do, kill me" Red says "if you can't save her, you are of no use"
for me, That one line from Red casts doubt on the father son connection.....what father would put a gun to his son's head to save anyone?
Someone did comment saying that they thought Red would never have pulled the trigger, he was just postering. But still....
Exactly redravenous!! How would tom know the Red used cases to get to Jolene? And why did those cases get her attention?
're the car vrs a motorcycle in the hideaway room...at least a car makes transport easier for the two bodies.
Foxtrot...you are funny the dog went to the SPCA because Liz and tom had too many issues....ha!
Ziji- I agree with you that Ressler is probably not Red's son.
I think that the rare blood type is not meant to show a family connection, but rather was meant to foreshadow a symbolic connection, i.e. revealing that the two characters are a rare type of person and are the same on the inside. This past episode shows us both men have suffered great loss (the loss of love and family) and both are filled with vengeance and hate. And even though Red did some awful terrible things, deep down he longs for the greater good. Up till now we have seen Red mentoring Liz, but I think as things progress we will see Red mentoring Ressler more and their similarities will be revealed. AND I bet if we could get a look at Red before he lost his family, he was probably very much like Ressler- young, ambitious, and back then he probably followed the rules.
Any guess or facts to how old Donald might be?
YoungSally, you asked if there might be some significance to the choice of the ballet "Swan Lake." Just from the brief synopsis you have written, could it possibly be something to do with mistaken identity?
We have already discovered that the name "Mr. Kaplan" comes from a case of mistaken identity from the Alfred Hitchcock movie, "North by Northwest." Cary Grant is an innocent man who is mistaken for Mr. Kaplan by spies who don't realize that Mr. Kaplan does not exist, but instead was used as a fictitious decoy so that the spies may be apprehended before they sneak microfilm out of Europe (something like that).
But perhaps Swan Lake was chosen simply because it is a classic, and it is a story of tragedy, the prince and the swan that he falls in love with, the princess Odette, both die at the end of the ballet, so that they can be together forever.
We might even hold out hope that this tragedy that Red retells is also based on a story of mistaken identity. That perhaps someone else was killed in the place of Red's daughter, but that his real daughter survived. Something else I read on another site caught my attention... was the name on the program "Elise le Blanc?" Couldn't Lizzie be a nickname for Elise?
Foxtrot-No one is ever home at Liz and Tom's to take out the dog to pee. The dog deserves better!
Was the car that Tom put the dead bodies in the same car as in the garage/his hideout? Or was it another car?
I will have to watch again and freeze frame.
Redravenous-Yes, there has to be significance about those dates. I thought the same thing.
Let's see how Tom explains that nasty cut on his thumb. The blood will go on the towel when they come out of the shower.
DARIUS MCCRARY FROM THE YOUNG And the restless will guest star on csi ny darius mccrary will be playing as glenn busoli in csi ny
This comment is regarding the dog Joseph, that belonged to the Keen's. I thought I would copy and paste it again as some people missed it before.
It's from a Jon Bokenkamp Q&A interview: A question was asked to the writes &Co online Q&A about the dog what and where is he ? The answer according to Jon B although us viewers never saw what happened said the dog was drugged and put in the hallway closet ? also said the dog will be back making appearences on the show
Hell at the time this question was asked and answered it was episode 5 now its 9-10 episodes gone he still in the closet ?
This was a humorous comment that was added:
The dog was a mole too. He is somewhere in a safe house being debriefed.
Now we are heading to episode 17 and still no Joseph, and yet people still wonder about their dog.
I am going to be so disappointed if RED is NOT Liz's father. I don't grasp a reason for such devotion unless there is blood connection somehow.
I am glad Joleene is gone. Cowbow was interesting.
Tom will give me nightmares now.
I like to think Ressler is his son as well .
On a sidenote. Loved Spader on Tonight show. !!
Has anyone talked about why Tom wanted them to adopt. I think it was because he ( the b***St**d ) planned to use that child against Liz in a real sinister way. Which explains why they hadn't had a child naturally. Tom had been fixed to prevent this.
To PetPeeves Anonymous and Anonymous:
Public forums are a venue for free thinking. And, surprise… many of us think alike. When I come on this thread, I purposely do not read the other comments until I've posted mine, just because I want to see if I'm in sync with the "group think." Sometimes I am, and sometimes I stand alone – that is until another poster comes up with the same idea and expounds on it. It's bound to happen due to the prolific content that a number of posters produce – EVERY DAY! I don't care if I'm recognized for my creativity and out-of-the-box speculations. I'm usually not. I comment because it's FUN! If you find it's causing you stress to not be lauded for your comments, then perhaps you should walk away for a bit to clear your head. Don't take it so seriously, or this forum will become a monkey on your back.
Charmed-Thanks for the info on Joseph, the dog.
I am a dog lover. Can't you tell?
It's the little things we notice.........the writers shouldn't forget that we notice everything.
Some preliminary thoughts - I'm going to number them to make them easier to address in replies later if anyone wants to chime in:
1. Tanida
Just to get this out of the way, his shooting of Audrey made sense to me as he later asked Ressler if he enjoyed watching her bleed out - at that point Tanida knew it was one of only 2 people left (Ressler or Bobby) that killed his brother etc and he was out for blood - he even stated he respected them doing their job but the fact they went beyond that is why he sought revenge. The cops sirens in the background during Resslers/Tanida's struggle required Tanida do something fast to get out of there so he shot Audrey as a means of escape too. I was surprised he didnt also shoot Ressler right then but perhaps it was b/c he was walking away and didnt want to shoot him in the back. As for Audrey walking towards them, she was just injured and dazed in a car accident moments earlier - people dont think straight moments after a crash so I think it makes perfect sense that she got out of the car as a result even though it wasn't the smart thing to do.
2. Tom/Jolene (first time in his secret lair)
I think it's clear as day they're working for the same group but as Tom pointed out, she's not his handler so he doesn't report to her. Her knowledge about Berlin and other matters shows they're on the same 'team' - her reason for being involved in the first place was that Tom's handler/Berlin TRIED to make contact 4 months ago with him but failed (Tom says he had to go dark once Reddington appeared and Zumani knifed him). As Tom couldnt be contacted at that time, they sent Jolene for an update/potentially to take over IN CASE Tom was no longer on their team (since he went dark, they didn't know).
Interesting things learned from this conversation:
--Berlin is who they report to (still could be an alias a la Mr Kaplan or refer to the city)
--Our suspicion that Red had Zumani knife Tom right over the Passport box so Liz would discover it was right
--We know Tom knew who Red was and vice versa at the hospital
--We know Tom's mission wasn't to kill Red
--We finally know Tom's group is different than Fitch - I was wrong so shoot me:) We know the cameras watching Tom/Liz by Apple Man was Fitch's group so that commercial about the "enemies of your enemies" was probably referring to those 2 groups.
3. Tom/Jolene (2nd section discussing what they know about Liz/Red)
What surprised me is how little Tom/Jolene know about Liz and Red as they were obv trying to piece everything together themselves and yet still didn't know much so its clear that Berlin group does NOT know Liz's secret/why Red is so obsessed with her etc. Tom's been following all of Liz's cases that Red brought her to glean info from, Jolene was surveilling Red the whole time but they are still clueless as to the real connection between Red and Liz.
4. Tom and Jolene/Cowboy
I was initially shocked he killed Jolene as they were on the same 'team' but when I rewatched it with closed captioning, his reasoning is clear and it makes sense: Tom cannot have his cover blown and by Jolene allowing herself to be caught (the Cowboy had already rummaged through her house and been following her), Tom knew she was 'compromised' and as such now a huge threat to him and his mission, plus she was now worthless to the 'team' as she didn't do as good of a job as she was hired as she allowed herself to get caught. As such, she had ZERO value to ANYONE at that point. Some complained she wasn't tough enough during their fight but its pretty obvious Tom is a MEGA BAD-@SS martial arts expert so it wasnt like she was fighting off just some random strong guy.
5. Preview for Next Week
Looks like 'someone' discovered Jolene's body (I'm guessing Red) and now there's serious heat coming down on Tom - this indicates she really did die (some have speculated she wasn't dead). It looked insanely exciting when Liz is walking towards and talking to Tom about the address of his secret lair as he rips down the pictures of her and hides behind a door - as we don't know if Tom's instructions are to kill Liz at some point if something happens, I can't freaking wait to see this part!
6. Red's Family Backstory
I was surprised like everyone else that his daughter was clearly more like 8-9yrs old as we all thought she died at 3-4 due to the height markings in the house they grew up in which was shown in a prior episode. I like how that connects the timeframe to Stewmaker to where it likely was the picture that he found. The ballerinas gossip said:
a. Red was a big donor but only went to 1 show, once a year on the same date (Mar 22)
b. Red's daughter used to be in the show
To do what he does seems like a 'memorialization' for someone that is dead, NOT something you'd do if you were still searching for someone who is potentially alive. And his speeches about 'love and loss' make that clear to so I do believe that daughter is dead - whether he had others, who knows.
The fact that his daughter was killed by the Stewmaker, who is/was an underworld hired gun, goes again to showing the murder of his family wasn't some random surface-level people but a plot against him, likely in revenge for something he did.
7. Conclusion
What I'm most interested in now is understanding who Fitch's group and the Berlin group's really are and how they're related and if they are about to be warring with each other etc. It appears Red was being honest with Fitch when he said his reasons for turning himself into the FBI had 'nothing to do' with him. Clearly the Adversary is more connected to the Berlin group yet I'm shocked that the Berlin group doesn't know more about Liz and why she is of such value, only THAT she is of such value due to Red and her path crossing so many times as a result of their surveillance. By having Fitch's group be separate from the Adversary's, it gives the show a nice extra layer of complexity that allows the story to unfold over years rather than just 1 season.
I also wanted to join with others that have said how much they appreciate all the comments posted here. It's so nice to have someplace to go where like-minded posters share the same affection and addiction to the Blacklist. Everyone is truly unique and sees something different in each episode. Hopefully if someone has only seen one episode, or has a question, what we post here may convince them to continue watching. I enjoy reading all of your comments very much and always find something here that I had not noticed or considered when I watched the episode. I hope that the show runners appreciate how many fans of the Blacklist there really are, and how we are not just watching the show, we are gobbling up each and every detail. It IS fun to theorize and share ideas with others. Can't get enough of the Blacklist!
It's so good to see you finally BC, WOW. About #3,about Red and Liz. it all makes sense now, doesn't it... that Red's connection to Liz predates his time with Grey, so Grey knew nothing about Liz , so he couldn't report that to Fitch. Red's connection to Liz must also predate his time spent as a criminal (well I guess that is still ongoing). Anslo Garrick did not know who Liz was, but maybe if he had seen her scar/symbol, (if not for her bandage) he might have figured it out.. Also it always was odd that Fitch did NOT ask Red about Liz when he had his full attention. Red told him it had nothing to do with their agreement, so Liz was a separate issue, probably originating with the Adversary. This must mean that only Red and Red alone knows why Liz is so important, and the only other person that did know is dead, Sam. No wonder so many different factions are interested. Perhaps Tom was placed with Liz as a precaution, in case Red ever surfaced to make contact with her. If their paths have crossed at key moments, as Tom says, perhaps Liz does know more than she is saying, perhaps she has known all along.
#5, Perhaps they didn't find Jolene's body. Maybe she is just missing, and she had some kind of fail safe plan in place that in case something happened to her that Berlin would be notified? I have a feeling that it was Red that instigates the investigation, not the discovery of a body. The cell phone call that she placed to Liz may be why the FBI targets the garage. But I wonder why Liz is shown in the preview telling Tom the address. That was strange,for her to share classified information with him... unless he was stupid enough to rent the space in the name "Tom Keen" ?
About your conclusions... It still seems as if there are three separate factions. Fitch, Berlin, and the Adversary. The conversations Red had with Grey... he never used the word "Berlin." He called his adversary... "the adversary." Berlin did not know Red's connection to Liz, but still sent Tom to keep close tabs on her anyway. Tom must have been a long term plant, they had no idea when or if Red would ever appear. Berlin must have something to do with Red's expertise in global intelligence, and perhaps that is related to the ominous "secret" that Fitch wants to keep hidden.
Still Red is the common denominator that connects them all. Red will have to join forces with his old friend and mentor, Fitch Crowley in order to do battle with the Adversary. Maybe you are right, and the Adversary IS Berlin after all. We need scorecards to figure this out!
Good point as it IS possible the Adversary is yet a 3rd party but it wouldnt make sense for Tom/Jolene to call their bosses 'the Adversary" anyway - just as it wouldn't make sense for Red to call his Adversary 'Berlin.'
Another point is that even though Berlin COULD be referring to the city, that doesn't mean the group is German etc as it could just be a group's outpost in Berlin they work for while the main power structure is concentrated elsewhere.
Something else I caught in the Closed Captioning was when Tom interrogated Cowboy and asked "Who sent you?" before he said "Reddington?" he said 2 other names we'd never heard before. They escape my memory now but one was like "Ounes" and the other longer but those may be clues as those 2 people are clearly others who may be adversaries of Tom's group.
BC, my closed captioning (on hulu) lists those two names as younes and Salumbides. But I have noticed misspelling on closed captioning before, so I'm not sure if that is correct. I tried looking those up in Wikipedia to no avail. Maybe someone else has a clue who or what Tom was talking about.
Younes is a Muslim name and Salumbides is a Filipino name.
The only way the writers of "The Blacklist" are going to give us anything substantial about Red is through the use of his flashbacks, third person narratives, and vignettes. Why should they come out with fact when they can keep us guessing. The show may go on for a long time and spilling the beans so soon would spoil it for those of us who are trying so hard to figure out. We're a considerable audience.
BC, thanks for your work--your near genius.
Great analysis, B.C.!
With all the conclusions about who knows what about whom, what is an explanation for why the scar on Liz's hand is the same as the one on Tom's (and Gina's) box? If Tom works for Berlin, but neither know why Liz is important to Red, he therefore wouldn't know the significance of the scar. So why did he or Berlin match the box to the scar?
I really like the way Ressler and Red's relationship evolved this week. One of my favorite lines (and posted on Facebook by The Blacklist today).
"My greatest enemy brought her back and my best friend took her away."
Tom and Liz decide to renew their wedding vows. Yes, I read Liz will be saying I do, for the second time to a man who considers her his target. That is where his brother (Paul Scanavino) is supposed to come on the scene. I guess the little "wish" I made for Tom Monday night isn't working. Well, Hell's Bells!
Charmed - Thanks a lot for ruining my next week's episode!!!
Jason (the author) Please discourage spoilers on this thread.
Just few thoughts -
Red- Resler
I see this episode as a farther development of their relationship – Ressler seems the only person in the Post Office for whom Red is prepared to momentarily drop his mask. Ressler is allowed to see glimpses of Red's soul
This development feels authentic to me , I think Ressler matters a great deal to Red.
Going back to when Red threatened Ressler with the gun in Anslo Garrick episode – – I see Red's action more as a misdirection - yes, Red put the clip back and put the loaded gun to Ressler's head – but in the resulting commotion he left Ressler with a loaded gun well within Ressler's reach.
I think Ressler trusted Red at this moment when Red said "now is the time" …
Part of me worry now that the writers will kill Ressler in order to torment us and shut that little window into Red's soul.
As far as Red's family is concerned –I personally do not think anything can be taken at face value- dancers talk about the rumour that their benefactor's (Red) daughter used to dance there – I do not think this is necessarily true – Red was 27 years old in 1987 ( from memory the date on the ballet program?) – how old was he when his daughter was born?
I will continue this post later , I need to find time to watch this episode again.
Charmed -where did you find the info about wedding vows??
Charmed,Never mind, found it
I don't think there's any chance Ressler will get killed off. He's too big a character that they're just getting started with. I think he's going to be a very integral part of Red's past.
Also, I think Red had no intention of killing Ressler in the box. Red's a master student of human behavior and he was pretty certain that Ressler would give up the code.
Chompstick. About that symbol. This is just speculation of course. We have always theorized that the symbol links Liz to some powerful criminal organization, and that the scar served to protect her from harm, or identified her as someone important. If she "belonged" to the family of a respected and powerful criminal, such as the leader of a cartel, all criminals would know to stay clear, a "hands off" if you will. Since Gina Zanetakos and Tom both had "go" boxes with the similar symbol, we can only assume that they were employed by that faction (now we can call them "Berlin"). Red's Adversary may very well be the leader of that group.
Red may be very familiar with that organization, he may have also been utilized by them in the last 20 something years. One theory is that Red took Liz as a child from the family of the Adversary, in retaliation for the loss of his own daughter. She may have gotten the scar originally from a fire the night she was taken at age 4. But we now believe Sam gave her the symbol as part of her scar at age 14, as a way of protecting her, telling her it would always make her "brave and strong."
Also, the scar/symbol may be the way that Tom identified Liz initially, as his target, the woman he was sent to seduce/marry. It is also interesting that Red asks to see the scar in an early episode, as if he is making sure Liz is the right girl, or that the scar is still there.
During the Anslo Garrick episode, Liz cuts her hand climbing from the elevator, and stops to rummage through a desk, finds a bandage to wrap around her cut... which conveniently covers the scar (same hand). Some of us feel that cutting her hand was not just a random occurrence in that episode, that her scar was covered for a reason. Anslo Garrick never saw her scar, so we have no idea if he would have recognized it. It just seemed odd that the writers would put that in the episode, and we all agree that everything happens for a reason on the Blacklist. Liz was being very bad-ass that day... why did she need to find a bandage, she was wasting valuable time. Maybe it means nothing. But maybe it will prove to be important when the symbol's meaning is revealed... eventually.
Jane's suggestion in an earlier post about the symbol resembling the "bear" from the Coat of Arms symbol for the city of Berlin, Germany was very interesting. She may be on to something there.
BJ - You're 5:45 post seems spot on. How about this addition: Liz is Victor's daughter that Red saved and hid? She is supposed to be a "chosen one". Perhaps the "other side" is looking for her, and she would be a valuable asset is they could claim her?
If Tom Keen isn't really his name, then Liz isn't really married to Tim/Tom/whoever he is.
Can anyone tell if the bike in Tom's warehouse is the same bike that was used to pick up the chip dug out from Reddington's neck in Anslo Garrick 2?
CES, I couldn't agree with you more about Ressler and Red, you stated it so well. Red had no intention of shooting Ressler, he was as always thinking strategically by putting the clip back in... he was going to give Ressler a way to defend himself, and to prepare for the "shootout" as mentioned earlier.
I hope you are wrong about killing Ressler off.. there is so much potential there. You mentioned that Red let Ressler have a little glimpse of his soul. I feel that we all got that same glimpse of Red's humanity, as Red sits watching the ballet, reminiscing about his daughter, silhouetted by light, tears in his eyes. We all saw a little bit of his soul.
Well said Anna, your remarks about glimpses of Red's humanity when watching ballet. I totally agree.
What I meant was that Ressler is the only one at Post Office who knows this about Red and at least theoretically can say in Red's defence - this man in not just an unfeeling monster" . It is surprising to me that Liz on her professional profiler level cannot as yet see this - I think that when she says about Ressler "he isn't like you , he cannot murder someone in cold blood and come out of it OK on the other end..."she lets her personal anger at Red for accusing her husband totally interfere with her professional judgement.
Anna -- I didn't catch the program listing -- but Elise could certainly be a version of Elizabeth as one would expect Lizzie to be. Le Blanc (again if correct) would be a nice reference to the white swan and maybe there is a black counterpart (anyone in this cast named Schwartz?)
I like the mistaken identity theory -- maybe Red's daughter was accidentally killed and that Lizzie was the original target...of course that might mess up the whole white/black good/evil thing.....but it might explain why Red is trying to protect Lizzie....simply because she was the original target and he got sucked in when his own daughter was killed.
But who knows
CES2, I looked at screen caps of the motorcycle used in Anslo Garrick 2 , it was red and white. All the pics from Mondays episode are up already, so I scoured the garage scenes. There is only a very small cycle leaning against the wall, not red in color, too small. Darn. Would have been great to connect Tom to Anslo Garrick. Although we do know he admitted making the drawing of the post office from memory. While that is quite an accomplishment, that still tells us that he did NOT have any moles or video feed from inside the post office. He was really working alone.
Oh wow! I go out for 10 hours and there are over 30 posts! You guys are busy very cool
"Down with spoilers" many of us post spoilers. for example, We have been discussing Craig keen, Walter reddigton. We discuss the promos and some of us are excellent at actually picking pieces out of the promo pics for upcoming episodes. On a public blog with lots of posters, it's just the way it is.
Charmed, I actually am blown away by the potential of Liz/tom renewing their vows and I appreciate the info.
YoungSally, I don't think there is a Schwartz on the cast.... yet! I suppose Noir is not a common last name. You present an interesting theory about mistaken identity. I never thought of that angle but anything is possible. We still have a blank slate, we don't even know Red's daughter's name, and are just guessing about her age.
excuse me but does no one believe that Lizzie is Red's daughter!!!!!!
Glad to see BC and CES2 commenting.
I think that when the Cowboy gave Red the pictures of Jolene walking down the street with Tom, the accompanying report would have had the address of the place they were seen entering and leaving, which was the warehouse garage. My guess is Red will give Lizzy that address to check out when she come to him with the picture of Jolene, so that she is the one to discover what's going on with Tom instead of hearing it from Red and not believing it. Stupid Lizzy tells the address to Tom to ask him why he was seen there with Jolene, again trusting him instead of Red. When she finds him behind the door he'll probably tell her he went there to investigate for himself why someone would say they saw him there. And she'll believe him. Again.
Agree with you Redravenous, and I thought the same thing - that must have been a really shallow grave, the ground was frozen solid. He's going to have to rebury them when it gets warmer or those bodies will be found. And even if Dembe found the cadillac, Red already has the address of Tom's hideout from the Cowboy's report, it won't help him at all in finding the Cowboy. My question is if Red had Tom under surveillance for months, wouldn't he already know about that warehouse? Tom must be coming and going from there all the time.
I'm wondering how Tom knew so much about the Blacklist cases. Maybe he has a bug on Lizzy, maybe on her badge. In the pilot when she's getting ready to go to work she tells him she's forgetting something and he pulls her badge out of his pocket. He may have embedded it on there before handing it to her, she wouldn't go anywhere at work without it. Perfect place to hide a bug. If he's bugging her, he's heard all her conversations with Red about him too. The question then is how did he know about Wujing leading Red to Jolene, if no one in the post office knew about who Red was searching for in ViCap? He couldn't have gotten that info from Berlin because he's not in touch with them since going dark. He had to get it himself. Did he hack the computers at the post office? Or did Wujing himself tell Tom that Red asked for Lucy Brooks vicap number as payment? And if Tom knew about Wujing and the Alchemist and Lucy Brooks/Jolene, does that mean he recognized her the minute she showed up at his school? Was he watching her all along, while she was watching him?
After watching the 2nd time, I am pretty sure Jolene works for Berlin. Tom is just too thorough and just too good at his job not to have verified before bringing her to his hideout. He wouldn't let his guard down, especially if he knew who she was before she disclosed it to him. He may have said "I love my wife" to Jolene to draw her out, after all he could have just not gone to her room. I think Tom knew Jolene was a spy from the start, but didn't know she was from Berlin until she said 'wrong answer'. He knew there was a group out there that bugged his house and it wasn't the FBI. So he wasn't sure if Jolene worked for them or Berlin, and would need to be absolutely certain Jolene was from Berlin before letting his guard down around her.
As to why he killed her, yes she was a threat to blowing his cover, but as I posted earlier, I think he killed her because he figured out her mission was to move in on Lizzy and once she gained Lizzy's confidence, she was going to get rid of him. Berlin hadn't heard from him in months and was replacing him. So it was kill or be killed.
Anna, I believe there are only 2 factions. Berlin is the adversary, and Fitch. I don't think there are 3 but your guess is as good as mine so we'll have to wait and see!
You recap the show so well I'll never have to watch it again"
I did re-watch the episode again and there are two bodies being buried by Tom. I agree with an earlier poster that they have to be buried in the snow because there is no way that he was going to dig a grave in frozen solid ground. However in the movies they can do just about anything imaginable.
I also agree that Red paying to have the play done on March 22nd every year is a memorial for a dead child, not one that is missing. I am glad that someone mentioned the dance school owner is probably Christina's mother that Red sent his hello to. She probably was the teacher that taught his daughter and gave her the lead in their class production of Swan Lake. Touching and very sad. If the Stewmaker did dispose of her body, and I believe the picture in his book was Red's daughter, there would be no grave site to visit. The ballet would be a fitting memorial year after year. He just wants to re-live that happy proud moment when she had the leading role in a dance class recital. It must take him back to a happier time when his life was not so filled with chaos and evil.
As always lots of good input and food for thought. Thanks to all the posters on this site for feeding my addiction. LOL
One more thing....do we all agree that Audrey was not working for anyone? There were theories that she was a plant too but I don't believe so.
Well, she is certainly someone's daughter and by that I mean someone important to Red if she is not his. She is not his publicly acknowledged daughter though, she is too young and it seems clear she was the picture Red took. Also she would clearly at age 15 remember more. He only had one child the FBI knew about. But she is too young to be after Red went rogue in 1990. Minimum age would be 18+4 years of college + 4 years in the FBI. So minimum age is 26 born in 1988. I suspect she is older than that by appearance. That doesn't mean he did not stray while married but I somehow don't think she is his daughter anymore.
Charmed, thanks for the information about that episode. That may explain why they are introducing Tom's brother. Doesn't it seem strange that someone undercover would actually have a family member? Maybe it is going to turn out to be someone else from Berlin, sent to find out what happened to Jolene, or sent to check up on Tom. I don't think it will really be Tom's brother.
I always appreciate when you find new information about the Blacklist, Charmed. It's okay. You didn't ruin anything. We already knew that Tom will be around for this whole season, many other people have mentioned already that he is listed for 22 episodes. Maybe this will be Lizzie and Tom's anniversary, we've always wondered when they were married. I still think the biggest shock will come when we find out that Liz has known for some time that Tom is a plant. Red may have shown her all the proof she needed, now she is just waiting for things to play out with Tom. Maybe Red hopes that Tom will eventually lead him to the person giving him his orders, the Adversary. Perhaps that is the only reason that Liz wants to renew her vows, to pretend that she is going to stay with him, so he lets his guard down.
Fergy, after watching Red give his condolences to Ressler, I don't think he had anything to do with Audrey, except that he may have called her, pretending to be the FBI when Ressler was in the hospital.
Could she have been the one character who was actually not pretending to be someone else with no motives and no secrets? I guess so. We never really knew very much about her, so she served her purpose in making us feel sorry for Ressler, and that's all.
ziji, I disagree. it's common courtesy to not post spoilers, because not everyone wants to know what'll happen in advance. This courtesy is an occurrence on many other fan sites. This is a thread of what-ifs and maybes. If you want to search for the spoiler sites to sneak peeks, that's your right. If you want to watch each episode a hundred times and quote the dialog, that's your right. I don't like spoilers. That's my right, as it is to the others who would agree with me.
Ah must be 23 to join FBI +4 years in the FBI makes her at least 27 That would make her around 4 years old in 1990 when Red's family gets destroyed. The same age she is given to her new father. So coincidence? Did her adoption trigger what happened to Red's family or did what happen to Red's family force him to relocate her to protect her? Another big question is why did they sic Tom on her two years before Red walks into FBI Headquarters?
Down with spoilers, E Online had this on my Google Blacklist page right beneath the Blacklist NBC. I did not say this was the next episode. If I knew whom I had spoiled this for by writing something the Blacklist's show runner's gave to the press. I would. I do.
Are you new to the Blacklist by chance? If so, you will learn they don't release information that they think will spoil their series. This was like other times, that someone told of something they read that show runners had given to multiple media outlets. It was not deep research. Like all the other items that have been announced, it doesn't mean it will happen! The picture of Liz in the Alchemist's chair having teeth pulled. Right now I can't even think of all the times we have been misled. Yes, I am also the one that posted about the dog.
The Blacklist is the first and until last week, the only thing I've ever posted about. I just thought I would pull up this blog, to read what I felt were my buddy's comments about a show we love. I would never want to ruin anything for anyone. My apologies. I just needed a break, because of my dog.
In the Courier episode where Red asks one question of the man that was kidnapped and has access to secrets. Grey wants to know why he wasted the question and that they could have found the Adversary and rocked the world or made the world tremble. Red says something to the effect that he is in for the long term. Whoever or whatever group the Adversary is has world altering implications. Fitch didn't know who Diane's mole was, so there is a lot the groups don't know about each other. I love the mystery of the show and trying to figure out what the big picture is. James Spader is an incredible actor. I love his character and I hope he has more scenes. It seems like he has been in the background a little more the last few times.
A.M very interesting thought about Tom bugging Lizzy's badge or hacking FBI computers.
I must confess that I cannot for the life of me figure out how Tom could amass such details about Red, Jolene and others. there is a photo of Red talking on he phone to Liz after killing Sam! There is the same newspaper obituary of Lucy Brooks that Red had and so on.
Could it be that the prop people were a bit careless with their wall display? a bit of an overkill?
It would be interesting to watch how the next few episodes play out, hopefully Liz sees what a cold blooded vicious killer her husband is ,and sooner rather than later .
AM-I'm with you on the Cowboy giving Red the address of Tom's liar when he reported to Red and took the photos of Tom and Jolene leaving "1896". I think Red gives Liz the address.
What if down the road Tom Bond is added to the Blacklist, under his real name, and Red brings him up as the next to investigate (after Red finds out all Tom has done)?
I just remembered that in the Anslo Garrick episode, in the beginning, Ressler comes to pick Red up at a bar in Germany (Munich). Could Red have been in Germany trying to get some leads on the Berlin group that Juicy referred to? I think I heard him speak some German, so maybe he has been working for years to bring down this organizations that is based out of Germany (not necessarily Germans, probably a mix of international criminals). Red is one of those people who has very long term plans, so while Tom has been gathering info on Red for the past 2 years, I bet Red has been gathering info on the Berlin group for decades. Juicy was probably a long time Berlin agent and Red knew that she was going to be assigned to take him out and that is why he had the documents on her. He probably has an entire library of files on people who work for the "Berlin" group.
Oh and and when Red and Ressler were in the box, I don't think Ressler gave up the code because Red threatened his life, I think he gave it up because despite his tough exterior Ressler is a good guy and he knew how much Red cared about Liz and didn't want other agents to die just to save Red's life. He knew they would have to get out of the box sometime.
CES2-Yes, how could Tom get photos of Red without him knowing it?
And what did Tom have on his laptops in his hideout? Surveillance of what? Home?
Anna wrote:
All right B.C. The search party is being sent, where are you? Did you change your name? This was such a GOOD episode. Tom admitted he switched the items in the box, wasn't that great hearing him finally admit that after you suspected that all along?
Did Tom actually say he *switched* the items in that box Anna? I think he said "I convinced her that the contents and the money were not mine" or something to that effect. I'm going to look at that again with the cc running.
"Searching in the desert for a drop of vengeance to slake an in-quenchable thirst is a lonely walk my friend"
"Let me tell you something that someone much wiser than I told me at a similar point in my life ... Go home ...turn back from this ..... Go home. It may seem like the hardest thing in the world but it is profoundly easier than what you are contemplating."
I'm not turning back. (Donald)
"That's pretty much what I said."
"Once you cross over there are things in the darkness that can keep your heart from ever seeing the light again"
To me Red's advice to Donald conveys that Red is weary of his life and the man he's become. He doesn't want Donald to make the same mistakes. Friendly advice, or fatherly? Like an earlier poster mentioned this isn't all about revenge for Red. He is mentoring Liz and now Donald for a reason. For the war that is coming. Why Red didn't tell Donald that his buddy Bobby had taken over Tanida's business. He must have known but let it play out for Ressler to learn not to trust anyone.
There is still something wrong to me about the scene in Tom Bond's lair, where Cowboy warns Jolene and she turns her back on him to make the call. He puts his glasses down next to his gun and comes up behind her but Cowboy doesn't warn her. He fights her and then leaves her to kick cowboy and she doesn't run, or get the gun. Why doesn't she have a gun herself? Why doesn't Tom shoot her like he does Cowboy. The suffocation is just not believable. She is barely covered by the cloth and not aspirating it. Just not plausible for me and so I'm left wondering if it was just not a well done scene or purposefully made to look fake. Red learning from Dembe that the girl is gone too just precedes the ballet scene and his voice over message to Donald about grief. Donald and Jolene look similar, they both have the chin dimple. I'm still not convinced about her death but if she is dead then Red is going to do something to Tom.
Margaret, to answer a couple of your points:
"Red says something to the effect that he is in for the long term." - he said that the girl (Liz) was the "long play" meaning he could've used the favor to access the Adversary info faster/directly but instead decided to use the favor to accomplish the same ultimate goal but going down a longer path - perhaps this is because he felt he needed more help/support before taking on the Adversary so gaining Liz's trust is a key to his plan/this path he chose to take. We all seem to feel Red both truly cares about Liz but also is using her via these cases to advance his own ulterior motives.
"Fitch didn't know who Diane's mole was" - Fitch only ACTED like he didn't know, when he was in the presence of other surface level government aides. That scene with Diane in the ODNI office was just for show as Fitch and Diane were both in cahoots and apparently 'member' of some secret shadow gov't offshoot.
A.M. I completely agree with your great point about bugging Liz's badge as that's the most plausible way for him to have learned all that info - I would say perhaps her phone too but I'd think she would've checked that for a tracking chip as she was very familiar with those chips (she planted one herself in Madeline Pratt's phone), especially once they discovered cameras in their home. It also perfectly points out as you mentioned that original scene in the pilot that we earlier thought seemed suspicious of why Tom had her badge in the first place.
Hank, I agree Tom did NOT admit to 'switching' the passports, only that his box with them was discovered. However I think it's clear they were switched by virtue of the earlier evidence of the names of the French Passport being altered and more importantly, the FBI's vetting of the found passports revealed them to be 'fake' fraudulent ones - I can't recall the line they used but they said something like these passports were so phony/they'd never been used and remember that the passports they DID find all pointed back to Red, which cleared Gina at the time and made Red seem guilty, yet we now know he was innocent of planting them.
JC I love your idea of making Tom a Blacklister under his real name - imagine the look on Liz's face when they show the Blacklister's picture on their big screens! And Meera's face too as she was the 'expert' who interrogated him.
Marie, Jolene was able to get TONS of key photos of Red at critical moments so Tom getting them too seems quite possible. After all, apparently he wasn't spending all day teaching 4th-graders
RedraV - I understand your points but didn't find it suspicious as Tom only THEN discovered that Jolene's cover was blown and even though he's a super bad-@ss, he still seems to panic on the spot when it comes to making key decisions. In that moment, he had to decide what to do and decided that killing both was key to his mission. IF he had let the Cowboy go, then I could possibly believe the killing scene of Jolene was staged (so the Cowboy would tell Red that she's dead when she isn't) but as he killed the Cowboy too, there's no need to fake anything with Jolene. That said I believe we'll have proof next week that she's confirmed dead. Believe me I was surprised they offed her so quickly as I was liking her scenes and 'crazy eyes' looks a lot but that's part of the fun of this show - you never know what's going to happen next!
Wouldn't it be great if Ressler went to the woods to bury Mako's head and saw the newly dug graves of Cadillac Cowboy and Juicy?
Marie, In the preview for the next episode, Tom is in the garage speaking to Liz on the phone, and he sees Liz on the monitor, walking down the street, coming closer to his garage. So the monitor must be surveillance of the outside of his building, (lair) and who approaches the door, etc. The next scene shows him scrambling to rip all the photos off the wall, etc.
Hank, BC's explanation sounds good to me.... I'm not sure if Tom admitted that he had switched the passports, I just assumed that is what he meant. This all does make me wonder what Tom's real name may be... and did any of the passports actually have his REAL name on them. We'll have to go back to the pilot and the original passports to see what they say.
And JC, I like the way you think, ha! But what if Ressler goes to bury Mako's head in the woods and finds the freshly dug graves of Cadillac Cowboy and Juicy... and the not so freshly dug grave of Diane Fowler!
CES2, I didn't realize that there is a photo of Red talking on he phone to Liz after killing Sam or the newspaper obituary of Lucy Brooks that Red had on Tom's wall, I have to look again at the screengrabs. This bothers me. I've been going over the possibilities of how Tom would have intel Lizzy didn't have, because she couldn't be the source even if he was bugging her or the post office. I don't remember when Red called Liz from Sam's hospital, was it before or after Tom got there. If Tom wasn't there, he certainly wasn't the source of the picture. Did Jolene have the same picture on her laptop?
Possible explanations:
1. Fitch works for Berlin and fed Berlin the intel, Fitch told Red he has had constant surveillance on him for the last 20 years. Apple Man had no idea who Tom was working for and Tom did not know who put the cameras in his house. I guess it could have been Berlin through Fitch that was running that operation and neither Apple man or Tom was high enough up to know those details. Maybe Berlin started checking up on Tom long before Jolene showed up and Apple Man just sent the info to Fitch without knowing who or what was the reason for the surveillance.
2. Mr. Gray was a triple agent working for Red, Fitch and Berlin and was feeding intel to Berlin or directly to Tom on behalf of Berlin. Gray could have seen that obit that Red was carrying around, and he may have gone to the hospital with Red so could take the picture, or followed him there. Gray knew all about the Blacklist cases and we've already established he's a mole so why not be a mole to both sides. Jolene said Berlin reached out to Tom for 4 months ago, and he said he couldn't answer them because he had to go dark. If they were reaching out to him, they may have continued to send intel to him, just didn't get any answers back. Gray may have worried about the NSA file on Victor that Red was reading and that his involvment would have shown up in the file, but it's possible that file didn't have any Gray pictures, those pictures on the wall in the p.o. could have come from a separate file on Victor's background. It puts Gray's conversation that day about why Red got that file into a different light - he may have been asking not out of idle curiousity but because he had to report the answer back to Berlin.
3. Prop department error, as you suggested is always a possibility. Maybe someone was too zealous creating the wall without thinking through the implications. ??
Jolene threw a disposable cell in the trash, all of her 'spy' communications were probably by disposable cell phones, but Jolene's cover the substitute teacher would have a regular cellphone that she'd use to call the school, other teachers, Lizzy and other people while under cover. So that makes sense, but the Cowboy should have retrieved the disposable one for intel before following her into that alley if he was doing a thorough job. I'm sure Tom got rid of her 'regular' cell when he got buried her. And I agree with whoever suggested that the FBI could trace where that call came from when she called Lizzy, and that also would lead them to that warehouse garage, or to an area close to it depending on how well they could trace the call's gps location. So Lizzy could have gotten the address from Red (who I am sure has it from the Cowboy's file) or from the FBI tracing the call. Or both.
This is what Tom said re: the passports in the box:
-You come to my house?
-Calm down.
-You're not my handler, I don't work for you.
- Berlin is having doubts.
- Yeah, well Berlin doesn't have a damn clue. Do you have any idea how many candidates there were? They chose me. I've done everything they asked. I married the woman for God's sakes. I made her think my entire world revolves around her and now it's been two years and I've heard nothing.
- We sent word 4 months ago.
- 4 months ago I had to go dark because Reddington sent a psychopath with a knife into my house. He cut me like a totem pole and because of that Liz finds my go bag, my passports, everything. so what did I do? I got myself out, I convinced her the passports are fake, the cash isn't mine, so excuse me for being, don't touch that, I've had my hands full.
- Berlin wants information
- So do I. You know somebody put cameras in that house. Somebody was watching us and it wasn't the FBI. So why don't you tell me, who the hell it was.
- I can't help you unless you calm down. [So Jolene may have known who put the cameras in the house, she didn't answer the question.] SCENE CUTS AWAY
Anna-Thanks. I will have to watch next week's preview again.
But when Tom went to the garage the first time with Jolene, he went over to the laptop. I was trying to see what he was looking at, at that time. I think the screen was split into four. Too far away to see what they were.
Good points A.M. - fwiw I'm guessing its more of a prop error although I think Jolene's phone will prove critical exactly like you suggest next episode and that'll be how they find that address.
As for Gray, it's just so hard to guess about him as we have no idea HOW long he was working as an informant for Fitch. It *could've* been just for that 1 incursion of the PO or it could've been way further back so we just have no clue how much Fitch really knows. My guess is that Gray only helped Fitch for a short time as there's be no need for Fitch to question Red in person IF he was continuously being fed info by Gray - in fact it would've been dumb of him to even alert Red in person to his group's surveillance of him IF he already had a long-time continuous mole. Plus I think Red's smart enough that if Gray was a mole for a long time, he would've figured it out sooner than later.
Thank you BC for addressing my post. I love reading all of these insights. I felt like Grey only helped the enemy that one time after they threatened his family. If Liz was chosen somehow to help in the quest for the Adversary, then that would explain why Red is so taken with her (if he is really not her father as he says), and he seems to be genuinely fond of her, and it is not all "job related" He could tell the FBI how to catch some of the blacklisters without letting her get the credit, but he seems to want to build her up in confidence as well as regonition in the department. Someone said that he always gives her hints, but I believe that is planned. To help train her for whatever is coming in the future.
BC, There are pictures on the wall of Gray and they are connected by string to Gina's pictures, which are connected by string to Lucy's obituary. I bet Jolene was surprised to see her face and obit on that wall :). Which shows that Tom knew who Jolene was all along... he was on to her and she thought she was spying on him. But I digress. My point is that Gray was connected to Gina on the wall - I think it's possible Gray worked for Berlin and was feeding Tom info. And that that relationship was going on for a long time. The relationship with Fitch may have been new, it certainly adds a great wrinkle if Gray was working for all of them, especially now that he's dead and Red can't find out more about it. And especially if Berlin was getting info about Fitch's organization from Gray as well as the info about Red. Unless of course Fitch works for Berlin, in which case Gray would work for them too. Berlin may have orchestrated the Anslo raid and sent Fitch in to talk to Red. I checked the bike in Tom's garage and compared it to the biker in Anslo part 2 and they don't seem to match because the one in Anslo was white and red and Tom's looks black but that could be lighting and shadow. The back of the seat looks the same.
I found the picture of Red outside the hospital when he called Lizzy on the wall - I also looked at the original picture on the screengrabs for that episode and Tom was already there when Red made that call so that's an easy explanation. Tom may have seen Red and snapped the photo, never dreaming Red would sit down next to him a few minutes later.
If Gray was not a triple agent, Tom may have found Lucy's obit on his own once he got the ViCap number from Wujing, if he knew Wujing and Wujing let him know what Red asked for as payment. He could've gotten the Alchemist list by his bug on Lizzy's badge or hacking Aram's computer some how and put the pieces together because the name showed up again and he did his own research to find her obit. So that's another possibility to add to my list of how Tom had this info.
I still haven't done the comparison between the screengrabs of Jolene's computer and Tom's wall to see how many of the pictures are the same, and I'm not sure if that would prove they both got them from Berlin or they each got them independently.
I agree with all of you that are saying that Red knows exactly where Tom's garage is. If he didn't know before, Cowboy must have told him.. But in my opinion, that does not mean he will give Liz the address. And yes, AM , I agree, Red probably has been watching Tom for many months if not years. When Red met Liz at her apartment after his time away (after the incursion in Anslo Garrick), he tells Liz that Tom is at the airport. That was a good indication that Red was always aware of Tom's location.
But one thing we have to remember is that Red is on a personal quest, and he has not involved anyone else. He keeps his true motives and agenda close to the chest, and he doesn't speak of those details with anyone. After Grey's betrayal, he most likely will not trust anyone with important information.
Red could have asked the FBI, or Cooper or Liz for help early on, in trying to locate Lucy Brooks. But instead he used the criminals he offered up on the Blacklist as a means to an end. He obtained the vicap number from Wujing, and he bargained with Cooper for access to look up that number. He finally obtained the list of disappeared criminals from the Alchemist, which probably had Lucy's name listed. All these cases served one purpose for Red, to find Lucy. She must have played a very large role in Red's agenda, he needed her for some reason. Now that she is dead, his task will be more difficult.
It seems as if Red should have approached Cooper and Liz long ago and asked for their help in locating Lucy or finding out if she were still alive.... but he did not. I do not think he will risk all the work he has accomplished over 24 years up to this point, when he is so close to reaching his goal. He turned himself into the FBI, so the time must have been right. The fact that he warns Cooper that a war is brewing means that the time to confront his adversary has finally arrived.. Telling Liz anything at all about Lucy Brooks will jeopardize everything. That knowledge may also put Liz's life in danger as well. He told Sam that he couldn't allow Liz to know the truth, so he certainly wouldn't allow her to know the truth now. We know that somehow Liz is connected to Red's agenda as well as to Lucy Brooks. Red needed them both for his plan to succeed.
If Lucy is exposed, then Tom is exposed, and if those two things happen, Liz's importance may be revealed prematurely. I don't think Red can allow that to happen. Somehow he may help to implicate Tom, so that Liz suspects he has had an affair, and perhaps in that way he can get Tom out of Liz's life. But imho, I do not think Red will allow Tom's real mission and Lucy/Jolene's involvement to be exposed.
In the preview, we see Liz show a picture of Lucy to Red. She again, wants some answers from him. I am almost positive Red will smile, try to change the subject, be evasive and finally make up some story about Tom having an affair... and that will be the extent of it. If Liz inadvertently discovers the location of the garage where Jolene placed that call to Liz... that information will not come from Red.
I have always wondered why Red did not give the FBI or Liz some concrete information about Tom, why he didn't just dispose of the man and be rid of him if he was that bad. But now I think I know why... because Liz cannot find out the truth about herself (whatever that may be!) The truth about Tom will reveal the truth about Liz. Red can't allow that to happen.
Thank you Charmed. No hard feelings.
CES2, I thought of you after I watched "Beyond the Blacklist" for this episode. John Eisendrath says "In the next episode Liz is going to come to learn something about her husband and by the end of the episode she will come to a revelation that is going to change her life forever."
Does that sound vaguely familiar? Sounds like the promotions for the Anslo Garrick episodes, how everything was going to change... forever. It sounds as if Liz will find out something about Tom, but I have a feeling that it is all misdirection, that this story is going to be stretched out for the rest of the season, or beyond. Maybe Tom will admit that he had an affair, begs her to take him back, they can start again with a new slate.... and that will change Liz's life... forever?
Sorry, that was me anonymous forgetting to put my name in ....
Juicy is dead dead. Dead in a hole in the ground, wrapped in plastic next to a dead Cowboy dead. Its a fast shot but on TV there is a shot of her laying there next to Cowboy.
I think Red always knew about Tom and has from episode one said Tom was not who Liz thought she was and can not be trusted so I don't revealing Tom reveals her. I just don't think he could reveal how he knows Tom is bad. That could be for any number of reasons including burning his sources. I think he found out about Tom when he hired Gina to kill the informer and saw Tom with Gina and Tom with Liz. That was probably shocking to Red. The money found in Tom's box was simply some of the money Red payed Gina and that is why it was traced to him. I don't think there ever was an interview for a job and Tom saw the photo and picked Red's assistant because it helped sell the story. My guess is Tom has no idea why he is watching her either.
Wow the fact that the strings on the wall connected a picture of Gray to Gina to Lucy's obituary is all very very interesting! (First off I do think its rather cheesy a secret double-agent like Tom is using strings lol) But this doesn't necessarily mean Gray was a mole back then though - if you recall, the hit with Victor Folkin involved Red in some way (Gina accused him of ordering it but I doubt that was truthful) and the classified report listed Tom as a double-agent so it's possible Gray back then was simply playing his role on behalf of Red. Not to mention Red was involved in a lot of black market/bad guy activities for many years - he might've always had good intentions but for him to befriend all these Blacklisters, he couldn't have been an angel.
I do believe Red wasn't lying when he said Tom and Gina are lovers so that could be true and mean Gina was indeed lying when questioned about Tom etc. As for Tom having Lucy's obituary on the wall, proving he knew who Jolene was from Day 1, I find that very interesting as he certainly 'played his role' and didn't give anything away. He did make a mistake though by quickly having Jolene make the call to Liz FROM his secret lair, which I think will come back to bite him next episode.
Anna I mostly agree with you in regards to Tom/Liz but don't believe if Liz finds out Tom's a bad guy that this will instantly ruin everything for Red and his goal. Red said from the beginning that Tom was a BAD GUY, not merely a cheater. If his goal was to simply split them up, he would've used someone like Jolene to seduce him sooner and prove his infidelity etc but instead he's always said Tom is not who she thinks, that if she kills Red, she'll never "know the truth about your husband" etc. He sent in Zumani to knife Tom so she'd discover the passports etc so all of that suggests Red is ok with Liz knowing Tom is a bad guy and not just a bad husband.
As for the next episode, it looks like Liz indeed will learn about Tom finally! I know they misdirect us all the time, but in this case, I believe we'll find that awesome scene at the very END of the next episode to be the cliffhanger going into the following one! She'll be searching that secret lair at the end of the episode, then come face to face with Tom at the very last second - THE END My guess is after that, she'll point his gun at him but not be willing to shoot him and he will thus escape and continue in the series as a bad guy but without direct involvement with Liz etc.
I gotta say the writers have outdone themselves with the latest few episodes - for awhile I was starting to get bored with the formulaic weekly case approach but now that there's a clear and direct connection each week between Blacklisters and Red's larger goal, most of which we have to guess to figure out, it's been WAY more interesting. Madeline Pratt even 'got away,' Audrey, Jolene and Cowboy all got killed and they finally gave us tons of answers last week to tie up loose ends w/regards to Tom and what he knew/when he knew/the passports/hospital scene etc and yet despite all that, it's become even MORE interesting now, not less!!!
Heh-the apt. across the street from Liz is vacant. Maybe Tom can move in there when Liz kicks him out or he escapes if he gets nailed for the deaths of Juicy and Cowboy.
BC, if Liz found out that Tom was an agent from an unknown criminal organization headquartered in Berlin who was specifically sent to seduce her, marry her and spy on her, and may have murdered several people to keep his true motive and identity a secret... how would knowing all that not lead her to wonder what it is about herself that makes her the object of his attention? Won't she want to know WHY she was targeted? That is what I meant when I said Red does not want the reason she was "chosen" revealed to her, or revealed to anyone...yet.
JBiltz, two things. I definitely saw Jolene laying on the ground beside Cowboy, wrapped in plastic. But Cowboys plastic was loosely wrapped around him, I think there is a screen cap that definitely shows his face uncovered. Could it be possible that the plastic wrapped around Jolene was loose as well? Perhaps she played dead, hoping to find a means of escape. Perhaps Tom, in a hurry to finish the job and get home before his wife got home from work.... and also having difficulty digging into the frozen ground, did not bury the bodies that well. And if Jolene were somehow miraculously still alive.... perhaps she clawed her way out of the plastic and from beneath those few shovelfuls of dirt.... to escape into the darkness?
Isn't it interesting that so many people disliked Jolene, throwing herself at Tom, etc. But now that she appears to be dead, we are trying to find a way to bring her back to life?
Wouldn't that be a shock for Jolene to show up on Red's doorstep? Hey, anything is possible.
Also, the money in Tom's go box... could not have been the money Red paid Gina with, if in fact he ever hired her at all. Red would never use a method of payment that could be traced back to him. He proved that when he kidnapped Aram and gave him that little test, demanding that he transfer 5 million dollars into his account in an untraceable manner. The items in the box were a sloppy attempt to frame Red, but since Diane Fowler was in charge of all the FBI investigations, it suited her purpose to have Red take the blame.
BC and A. M. or anyone! Now that we have 20/20 vision in hindsight, Diane was the mole, Tom is a nasty undercover spy of some kind... why did the FBI clear Tom so easily? Why did Diane want Tom to be cleared? Was it just her personal vendetta against Red because she hated him, or were there other reasons? I wonder if Diane worked for Berlin as well as working for Fitch. She seemed to be upset that she had been under surveillance as well. Maybe SHE is the one that gave Tom all those photographs. Red had a chip in his neck, she always knew where he was and she could have sent an agent to photograph his every move.
Maybe Tom and Diane both worked for Berlin, but Fitch worked for a separate faction and he knew nothing of Diane's alliance with Tom. Maybe that is why Fitch was watching her, too.
I can't wait to see the next episode! I have wondered why some blacklisters have been allowed to survive and some are killed. Maybe they will come back in future episodes, and someone needs to still use their services. Gina especially seemed like someone that would return. Maybe there is still a mole in the FBI office.
Ann- -the FBI did clear Tom pretty easily. Maybe Diane did have a hand in that. Good thought.
I think Jolene is really dead. She was covered in plastic and even the car was covered in plastic-trunk is up and covered in plastic.
How is Tom going to clean up his room "1896" so quickly before Liz gets there? There's a lot of stuff in there-he had like four big suitcases on the floor, a backpack, the laptops, rifle, all those cameras, one on a tripod, motorcycle, car, etc. I guess he's not going to school tomorrow..
Ha! Good point JK, Tom will not be in school tomorrow. He must have a mess to clean. I suppose Jolene is dead as a doornail, and anything else is just wishful thinking. The biggest disappointment really, is that Jolene never even got to have a scene with Red! that would have been interesting to find out why he was so anxious to find her.. He had been looking for her since the beginning, and some even thought she might be his daughter. It's a shame they killed her off so quickly.
Anna I misunderstood your point about Liz and totally agree that once she learns Tom was a 'bad guy' placed with her on purpose, she will certainly want to know whats so special about her! Also good point about the money in the box providing further evidence there was a switch to frame Red.
As for clearing Tom, I think it had more to do with 2 things:
1. The fact that the case associated with him (his picture in the Folkin file) was top-top secret - remember only a very few top people even had access to the unredacted version. Those cases are very hush hush and not a top FBI priority. I realize the Gina Z case was urgent to stave off the attack at the Houston port but they really had nothing to go off of.
2. Tom is an EXPERT of experts - he can withstand and deflect interrogation with ease so it didn't matter how hard they pressed - even if they waterboarded/tortured him, he wasn't going to talk. And the way he 'volunteered' himself to be brought in was another aspect that made him seem more innocent and believe me he knows what they're looking for behavior wise and played the role perfectly to get cleared quickly and easily. Again they really had nothing at all to question him on - the only shred of real evidence was related to the Kindergarten job interview, which he masterfully framed Gray as we still don't even know if Gray really did interview him or Tom made the whole thing up to help frame Red.
As for Fitch and Diane working for different factions, I doubt that as when she said right before death "we came after you in the Post Office" that "we" said everything, that she was working hand-in-hand with Fitch on it. And remember that was definitely a secret shadow gov't intrusion as many innocent FBI people lost their life in that so it definitely wasn't them working in their 'official' capacities.
I did notice that Bokenkamp said Liz will find out information about Tom in the next episode that will change her life forever, or something to that effect. I have learned to take what the writers say with a grain of salt. They frequently say things just to throw us off track so the element of surprise is always there.
OK, BC, AM, Anna, Redravenous and Charmed......you are hearing this from the horses mouth, I no longer think Red is Liz's father. Yes that's right, I am giving up on that theory. The thing that tipped me over the edge is the way that Red mournfully watched the ballet imagining his daughter. Although he looks at Liz in a loving matter at times, he doesn't show the same love he had for that little girl that appears to have been disposed of by the Stewmaker. I am now leaning toward Liz being the daughter of the adversary that Red took her in retaliation and is going to use her to EVEN THE SCORE, just like Zumani intended to do with the General's daughter in the pilot. Zumani did that because he knew he was dying, I think Red knows that his days are numbered and eventually his criminal lifestyle is going to catch up with him and result in his death. He wants to settle the score before that happens.
BC, Diane may have been working with Fitch AND with Berlin. She could have easily provided Tom with all the information and photos he had on the Blacklist cases,. She could have also continued working with Fitch and his "people" in their plans to abduct and question Red. Remember she told Red that she knew the "truth" about what happened to his family? Perhaps that meant she knew that Berlin was responsible (The Adversary?) for what happened to Red's family and it was not caused by Fitch and his "people." She had such an important position in government, she may have had allegiance to both factions.
Anna, I'm not sure that Fitch isn't working for Berlin. I don't think he is, but if there's only one 'bad' group, then of course Diane worked for them as well and would have had Tom cleared. If Berlin was worried about Tom, they could have instructed Fitch to hire Apple Man; Fitch may not have given Apple Man any background information, just told him what he needed to know - tape everything. So that scenario fits in a tight bow.
But while I'm open to the possibility that they are all under Berlin, including Fitch & Diane, I still think they are separate groups. I think that just having Berlin as the bad guys is too boring and that the writers have something better cooked up than one 'control' type organization. Two 'control' organizations warring with each other makes for good tv for multiple seasons.
I think it's more likely that Gray worked for both groups than that Diane did, because I think Berlin is working against the interests of the US, and I think she'd be more aligned with an American group. So I think Diane cleared Tom because the evidence cleared him and she had no reason to keep holding him or to suspect that he worked for another organization. Incompetence mixed with hubris that nothing more sinister is out there than Red Reddington.
A few other comments.
- I believe Jolene is dead and buried, literally. I don't think she is Red's daughter and I don't she's coming back.
- From the spoilers Charmed posted, it's clear Tom lives to see another episode past next Monday and that Lizzy believes him. I wonder if she's going to trust Tom over Red like she did after the Gina episode. (I'm not going to repeat the spoilers).
- Tom switched out the passports and the money in the box before he called Lizzy to say he found it. He had Gina's help, and he and Gina plotted to frame Red. When Tom saw Gray's picture on the wall he improvised and pointed him out to further the Red frame. In the Gina episode, Red's money was diverted from Houston to New Orleans, he thought it was because Houston was the target port, but as I posted at the time, I think that's when the money from Red's account was diverted to Tom so it could be traced back to him.
Anna, I can't find the behind the blacklist for this episode on youtube. Where did you see it?
Fergy, glad to welcome you to the 'he's not her father' side:) I can't wait to find out what her importance is, but I'm guessing it's not going to be revealed for a long time.
Beyond the Blacklist is on hulu, A.M. About Jolene.... how can we be so sure that she is dead. This show is filled with misdirection.
Fergy, Just to play devils advocate, do you think perhaps it is possible that Red had more children than just that one daughter he memorializes every March 22nd? Did the FBI alter the records of his children at the same time that they fabricated the story about him abandoning his wife and daughter? When Liz asked Red, did you know my father, he replied that he wished the answer was as simple as the question. Why didn't he just say yes or no. Why did Red hesitate when Liz asked him if he was her father. Why did Red thank Sam for loving and caring for Liz as a father would, as Red would now do. I still think there is a great possibility that Liz could be his daughter, that he may even have a son as well that he had to give up, to protect them. Perhaps he cherishes the memory of the oldest daughter, because she is the only one that died that night. The other children may have been under the age of four so it would be safe to say they may not remember what happened that night, and have little to no memories of their real father (parents).
Is it possible that because of what happened to Red's daughter, that the rest of his children were given new identities and given to other families to raise? Perhaps because Red was working for the military on a mission or classified operation, that the government intentionally listed only one daughter, to protect the rest of his children? Liz may be one of those children.
It's lonely sitting up here on the fence. I still want to believe that Liz is his daughter. I wish there was some proof. But everything Red says to Lizzie, everything he has done, was with paternal affection. He looks at her with love, affection and kindness. That should be proof enough. There is no other explanation.
Anna, you're not alone on that fence. I still think that Red had more children than just one daughter. He loves all his children but his grief of loosing his oldest still haunts him. He blames himself for her death and has known she was dead for a long time. Finding the Stewmaker's picture only confirmed that her body was gone. If the others are not dead, he would not have the same feelings. He obviously has a great capacity to care about people, Luli, Dembe, Donald and even Cooper (as we saw in the Judge). He has a special love for Liz, it is so parental. He wants to teach her, protect her, guide her, console her.
And thank you for considering Jolene might still be alive. I know it is such a long shot but her death doesn't fit for me. I don't think it is wishful thinking.
Fergy, I can understand Red's deep love for his lost daughter is different than that of his feelings for Liz, even if they are both daughters. He allows himself to both mourn her and remember her in a special way each year. If Liz was anything but his daughter I can't imagine him caring so deeply for her. When Tom says their paths have crossed at key points the past 20 years. Key points of Liz's life, maybe when she graduated, don't know what the Baltimore reference was. I think Tom is hired to figure out what their connection is but there is no way Red can disclose that without risking her life. They need something to use against Red to be able to control him. Maybe to find out about the facts behind his secret with Fitch. When Tom came into her life and Red found out who he was, he had to get closer and though that may in itself compromises her safety he is teaching her to be stronger while staying close. Would he give up his own life for his adversary's daughter, like he did when he gave himself up to Anslo and even had to threaten Donald to do it?
SH, funny about the apartment!
Fergy, can you elaborate on what you said about Red using Liz to even the score? How do you envision that playing out? I can't see him harming her, can you?
I finally got around to comparing the pictures on Jolene's usb drive to Tom's wall. Some of the pictures of Gray and Luli and Red are the same, but they may pre-date the date of pilot episode, when Tom was still sending info to Berlin. I don't see any pictures of Dembe on Tom's wall - I wonder why not? There's a picture of Anslo up there and Wujing. Right by Wujing's picture is a picture of Lucy Brooks from ViCap. Tom was following Lucy/Jolene since Wujing!Imagine his surprise when she showed up at his school. :). I think there may be a picture of Madeline Pratt with the man she was with at the Syrian embassy (forget his name). There's a picture to the upper right of the picture of Jolene of a man I don't recognize. I wonder if he'll show up in a later show. Also, look closely at the clump of Gina's license pictures which is connected by string to Jolene. To the right is the picture of Tom and Gina together. It's not the picture they found in Gina's book but it does show them as a couple.
Thanks Anna for the hulu info. I watched the Beyond video and thought it was interesting when Jon Bokencamp says "Ressler now asking for his help, going a little big rogue, just goes to show that there is a little bit of Red's blood pumping through Ressler's veins." This could be a reference to the blood transfusion that Red performed, but maybe he's throwing out a bone to the "ressler is red's son" cracklisters to chew on. Not that it's true, but they love to play with the audience so this was an interesting line to put out there. Patrick Massett, one of the writers of the episode said this about Tom killing Jolene: "And as much as Red needs to get information from anybody who may give him information and clues about the bigger picture of what's really going on with him Jolene was a key part of that and Tom ends up taking care of business in way that Red probably wouldn't have been his first choice but Red's a man who thinks on his feet so he'll bounce back I'm sure." No hint whatsoever about Jolene being more important to Red than a source of info, for those who think Jolene may have been his daughter. Also the line at the end that others have referenced, Jon Eisendrath said *SPOILERS - STOP READING HERE IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THE NEXT EPISODE* - "In the next episode, Liz is going to come to learn something about her husband and by the end of the episode she will come to a revelation that is going to change her life forever." OK, but the producers have also leaked that Liz and Tom renew their vows in another upcoming episode in April, so how bad and life changing can it really be?
Redravenous, you make some good points about Red risking his life for Lizzy in Anslo Part 2, that he wouldn't do if she was the Adversary's daughter. I don't think she's the Adversary's daughter either. I lean more towards a theory like BC's, except I put a 'Fringe' twist on it, and think he rescued her from some sort of gov't experiment on children and has been looking after her ever since, especially since his own daughter was taken from him that Christmas eve, maybe because of his work in that program. At first I was 100% in the "she's not his daughter camp", I'm now only 90% there, and do think there's a chance that he had other children and after the massacre he covered up their births and existence. I just wonder though how Berlin, with all it's spy power, didn't uncover the truth of that, nor did Fitch, who went so far to have apple man surveilling the house to find out why Lizzy was so important. Also for sure Fitch would've run those dna tests, even if Cooper didn't think to do so, so that's why I'm 90% confident she's not his biological daughter.
Down with Spoilers, I can understand you not wanting the next episode to be revealed. Some like surprises more than others. I just want you to know that some posters have kindly shared details about previews and videos to those of us who don't have access to them. Most often they aren't available to those outside of the U.S. and I for one have appreciated when the spoilers are shared with me. Your message to Charmed was nice to see, she truly is a sweetheart.
Echoing my earlier statement that the writers have really stepped up their game lately, this article just released talks about how they actually changed writers after the Olympics and agree the main issues have been worked on:
Anna my dear, we have discussed this at great length and you already admitted at least once before that you agreed there are 'other ways' that Liz and Red could not be blood-related yet Red could have strong paternal feelings for her regardless!!
I'm pretty sure the cloth used to smother Juicy was the car cover. It looks like the right color and it is in the right place. That would explain why cloth would get the job done.
There were three pieces of evidence against Tom. The biggest was the gun. It seems strange he would switch money but not the gun. Its possible I guess if he thought Liz already had the serial numbers. I don't think he switched the money. He killed the guy or at least helped kill him Red paid for it. It seems likely that is where the money came from. They dropped the case because all the evidence against Tom looked like a frame and Gina confessed and cleared Tom.
Something I don't understand though, why isn't a go bag a bag?
oops, that anonymous was me
Thanks Anna, I can see Beyond the Blacklist after the given episode airs here, thanks for thinking about me.
I too think Jolene may be alive,in the photo where both she and cowboy are wrapped in plastic I think I can see the gap in plastic, perhaps like " the Girl with a Dragon Tattoo part 3 " she managed to dig herself out of her grave.
[Forgive my tardiness, I'm coming into this four days late. I will try to skim all the posts, but I apologize if I miss any.]
#1 - I think that Jolene is still in next week's cast because they will need a flashback to show her making the call to Liz, but not hanging up so Liz will hear the scuffle in the recording. Or-r-r.., to give Jolene her due, perhaps she called Liz on her FBI line that no substitute teacher should have known! Jolene knows Tom is about to kill her, so this is her final act of retaliation.
#2 - We don't know what Jolene and Liz talked about when they were "bonding." Perhaps Jolene told Liz that her ex-fiance was an abusive SOB and she wanted nothing to do with him. Then, in the shower, Liz is the first one to bring up Jolene leaving with her fiance.
#3 - Kate! wrote: "Here's a theory for y'all: Imagine this: Lizzie comes home. Sees a drop of blood on the floor...."
Right on, Kate! Lizzie is on to Tom and setting up the little sleaze bag!
#4 - BC: Your 7 points on March 19, point #6: The Stewmaker was not a hired gun. In fact, Liz was to be his first "kill." His specialty was in getting rid of bodies killed by others. If the picture Red removed from the portfolio was, in fact, his daughter, we still don't know who actually killed her.
#5 - CHARMED: Your "spoiler" about Tom and Liz renewing their vows, I love it!! Right where Tom says "I do," Lissy replies, "Like Hell, you murdering SOB!"
#6 - Down With Spoilers: Lighten up, dude! Every studio promo is a spoiler of one kind or another. This makes me even more interested in viewing that episode, not less! (In my seldom humble opinion)
#7 - The timing is also right for Tom to get his comeuppance at the end of this season. Things are moving too quickly to drag it out for another year. My big question, however, is if Tom isn't going to be the big end-of-season threat, what will be?? Fitch? Or from out of left field will we meet Red's heretofore very unknown wife who may even be on Red's Blacklist!
#8 - Finally, what if this thing that will change Liz's life forever is a red herring? What if she finds out that Red killed Sam and now refuses to work with him? THAT would highly annoy me!
OK, I'm all caught up! WHEW! That was a lot of reading....
Anonymous: "Something I don't understand though, why isn't a go bag a bag?" A "Go Bag" is often an emergency supplies stash that contains everything you might need if you need to leave in a hurry. For example, I am a first responder and have a Go Bag sitting right next to my front door containing food, flashlight, two-way radio, medical supplies.
To Tom, his Go Bag contained a large amount of money, passports and a gun. Tom knew Liz had found it because he could tell the gun had been recently fired. That's why he had to leave it in the box.
Fluffy I like your thoughts about Jolene possibly leaving clues for Liz.
I agree - the possibility that Liz finds out about Red killing Sam has been hanging over our heads for a while and the question how this would play out long term is a bit unnerving, particularly since there are photos of Red outside Sam's hospital on Tom's wall.
I wish Red was Lizzie's father too. tt's still possible. Red has so much patience with her. I doubt he would be that way if she wasn't.
That would be great if Jolene left Lizzie's clues. Maybe when she was at the house "bonding" with Liz.
BC, I know, deary, (thank you Mr. Kaplan) ...I neglected to mention the "baby on the doorstep scenario". Red could have encountered Liz on a mission, rescued her, or took her from the Adversary as an infant. It's hard to imagine he would care for her so deeply if he took her from the Adversary at age 3 or 4 and gave her directly to Sam. Sam would have been her primary caretaker, and would have fallen in love with the child, which is human nature. It is possible that Red cared for Liz during her infancy, so he would have developed a paternal bond. But it doesn't seem that living among criminals and traveling the world pursing his business interests would have given him much time to care for a baby.
But on the other hand, if Liz is roughly the same age as Megan Boone, then she would have been born in 1983, long before the tragic events of 1990, Unless the writers want us to believe that Lizzie is younger than 30. Personally I think Megan Boone appears to be only in her mid twenties, so this is very believable.
As JBiltz speculated, Liz's minimum age may be 26, born in 1988. So she may have been 2 years old when Red's family was attacked, and 4 in 1992, two years later. That may fit perfectly with the time line and theory that she is really the Adversary's daughter and was taken in retribution for the loss of Red's daughter. She may be at the core of Red's agenda and will serve some pertinent purpose in the battle Red will face with her real father, the Adversary.
I never really believed that Liz was Red's daughter, until the episode when Sam died. In the pilot, Red seemed a little over the top, the way he leered at Liz and the odd familiarity he showed when he first met her., That may have reminded viewers too much of Hannibal Lecter. The writers have seemed to tone that down quite a bit since then. I agreed with others that said it would be too "simple" and that there must be something more to the story, the other options were much more interesting. If anything, it almost seemed he was "pretending" to be her father in an effort to use her to further his own criminal interests.
But something James Spader said in an old interview from September always makes me wonder what the writers have in store. Basically he thought that Liz being Red's daughter was too simple, that he hoped that there would be more complex reasons for Red's interest in Liz. But he also said that he did not really know, that perhaps eventually Red would take a circuitous route back to Liz, and she would end up being his daughter after all.
Hey BC thanks for the link!! They changed writers!! I had no idea
Apparently Tom's brother might be his handler or someone from Berlin
Still no work on Walter REddington...
I love the idea that Liz is setting Tom up. When there was a big hoopla in the beginning about her long haired wig, it was explained that a lot of thought went into that wig Liz was initially supposed to be naive, "needing a mentor" inexperienced. But yet full of potential and "the chosen one" This entire season has shown her gradual emergence from young and inexperienced into her badass beautiful self. Her setting up Tom would certainly represent that transition nicely. I don't know if she is quite there yet, but I think that's the intention with her character.
If anyone has info about Walter...bring it on...
Charmed...are you good?
Ziji-I can't find anything on Walter Reddington. Just some things about the next two episodes, which you probably already know.
Fluffy, my point about the use of the Stewmaker in the death of Red's daughter wasn't so much suggesting that he actually killed her, just that he was involved at all (making her body disappear) and thus his involvement connects her death to the extremely underground criminal world that Red's a part of. Which suggests his daughter's death wasn't the result of surface-level type gov't agents/troops etc but the work of some underground criminals OR more likely, the SSG (Shadow Secret Gov't) that Fitch/Diane are a part of.
After looking through the screen caps from the last episode, I noticed a few things:
Tom is bleeding from his thumb, it appears that his thumbnail is missing, it might have been ripped off during his struggle with Jolene, with the cowboy, or perhaps when he was digging the graves. If the bodies are found, Tom may have lost his thumbnail (and DNA evidence) at the site.
After Tom kisses Liz, there is a shot of her face and eyes. There is a very strange expression on her face. It was as if she is staring off into the distance deep in thought. Perhaps she already knows something about Tom, and Jolene told her something during their little chat that morning. I had the feeling that Liz was playing a part, pretending to be a wife that suspects nothing. But something was on her mind..
The program that Red is clutching as he watches the ballet, says The Elise Le Blanc School of Ballet presents Swan Lake March 22, 1987. The name Elise Le Blanc is interesting. Lizzie may be a nickname for Elise.
It does look as if Audrey's shooting was intentional. The shooter (was that Mako?) is looking directly at Audrey, then aims and fires. The gun did not go off accidentally, and he was not aiming at Ressler.
Remember, Red was on to Jolene. I think he sent the set up the investigator. He had the investigator track Jolene. Red knew she had contact with Tom. Red want to get rid of Jolene. At the same time, when in investigator said, "I don't like you" and Red gave him the same look he gave the Stewmaker right before he killed him. He got rid of Jolene and in the invesitgator using Tom. Killing two birds with one stone. Now Red has exposed Tom more for Liz to see clearly who this man really is.
Anna-I had mentioned Tom's bloody thumb a few days ago. I knew it was bleeding pretty badly but did not know that the fingernail was missing. I will have to look at that shower scene again. Thanks. Yes, I hope he left the fingernail behind at the gravesite. I wonder what his excuse will be for that. I hope it hurts! LOL
Meera was cleared by the interrogator as not being a mole, but she was placed in the group of FBI agents at the Post Office by Diane. Even though she provided Red with that information that Diane was the mole, is it possible she is working with some other group and providing information? Maybe she was telling the truth when she said she wasn't the mole on that case. She could be funneling information to the other group. I believe she was the one who cleared Tom. I have wondered if there is another insider giving out secret information to Tom or Jolene
Anna-I just watched the shower scene again. Which nail do you think is missing? It looks like he has all his nails to me. But the left thumbnail is pretty messed up.
During the scene between Jolene and Tom right after they capture Cowboy,
Doesn't it seem odd that Tom mentions two other groups or persons that may have an interest in Jolene? And he mentions them before he even considers that it might be Red that hired Cowboy.
T Who contracted you?
J This isn't right
T Who? Was is Younes? Salumbides?
J We shouldn't have brought him here.
T Was it Reddington?
J Somebody might have seen you.
Meanwhile Jolene is pestering Tom and keeps interrupting him. Was Jolene afraid Cowboy might tell Tom something she did not want him to know? She almost seemed as if she were protecting Cowboy by telling Tom that he wouldn't talk. She did not want Tom to believe that Red had sent Cowboy. This all makes me wonder if Jolene would have done something to stop Tom from killing Cowboy, had she survived.
J He's not gonna talk.
T It was Reddington.
J You don't know that. You don't know that!
Redravenous, you were right, Cowboy should have shouted to warn Jolene before Tom struck her. Cowboy was probably hoping that the fight would be a distraction while he tried to free himself from the chair. Also, later, in the shower scene, it is surprising that Tom does not have more bruises especially on his arms. He blocked many of Jolene's punches with his arms, and it seemed she hit him in the chest as well. He may have protected his face, but Jolene managed to get in a few punches.
SH, I remember you mentioning the bloody thumb but didn't notice it when I watched the episode. I have a screen cap of his hand, they certainly made sure they showed a close-up of that thumb bleeding . To me it looked like he lost his nail, but maybe not. If he didn't leave behind the nail, maybe he left behind lots of blood that will identify.him. Just put http:// in front of this, to see a pic of his thumb screencapped.net/tv/theblacklist/displayimage.php?album=37&pid=32335#top_display_media
You have to be 23 to join the FBI + 4 year in the FBI = She had to be at least 27 in 2013. 2013-1990 = 23. So she was at least 4 when what happened to Red's family happened. 4 was also how old she was when she was given to Sam to raise. Maybe she is older but I think it all happened around the same time. The big question is really which happened first and why. Did Red hide her because of what happened to his family or did what happen to his family happen because he hid her. I really think that one or the other is what happened.
There is no way the FBI altered family records on a Field Grade officer in the Navy to change the number of kids on record. The military is just too public and too social among itself for that to happen. Too many barbecues, parties and family support meetings. So way too many who know the lie. Too many to ask why the lie. A lie should deflect from the truth not advertise the truths importance.
Jade Spencer I have the same suspicion as you regarding Red and the Cowboy . For whatever reason I too think something is off in this conversation in the car.. I do not think Red would have set up Cowboy if Cowboy was an innocent man though.
Anna I sooo agree with you- that conversation Jolene had with Tom is worth remembering in case there will be clues to be had at a later stage.
There seems to be a title change - Harrison Lee instead of Ivan, same synopsis
JBiltz, The FBI still has information in their records that state Red abandoned his wife and daughter on Christmas eve 1990. Ressler tells Cooper that information in the pilot and Liz repeats that story as well in a later episode. Does this imply that they are still alive? If the record is the "truth" and they are still alive, are you implying that Red lied when he says that something terrible happened to his family?
If the official record about whether or not his family is alive or not is not factual, couldn't they have altered the number of children as well?
JBiltz wrote: ..." He only had one child the FBI knew about. But she is too young to be after Red went rogue in 1990. Minimum age would be 18+4 years of college + 4 years in the FBI. So minimum age is 26 born in 1988. I suspect she is older than that by appearance. That doesn't mean he did not stray while married but I somehow don't think she is his daughter anymore."
JBiltz, I based my assumptions on this earlier post you made, and didn't see your more recent revised one, sorry. I suppose it really does not make a difference, since we still have no proof of when Liz was born. It does still seem to fit the theory that Red took her from the Adversary and gave her to Sam around the age of 4..
You do present a fascinating theory about which event came first, "Did Red hide her because of what happened to his family or did what happen to his family happen because he hid her." I don't think anyone has ever mentioned that possibility, that the attack on his family was a result of Red taking Liz. Intriguing idea to say the least. Red may still feel such a heavy burden of responsibly for his daughter's death, if that were the case.
Did folks watch AMC's show The Killing? The scene between Ressler and Bobby in the snow is very close to the ending scene of Season 3 of The Killing--so close that while watching the Blacklist scene I said aloud "This is The Killing all over again". 3 cops in the woods-- in The Killing, Holder (Joel Kinnaman) begs Linden (Mireille Enos) not to shoot her police boss/lover Skinner (Elias Koteas); Skinner begs Linden to shoot him so he will not go to jail. Bobby begs Ressler to shoot him so he will not go to jail, and Liz begs Ressler not to pull the trigger. Linden pulls the trigger; Ressler pulls the trigger--multiple times. The Blacklist writers MUST have seen The Killing's scene, because there Linden did indeed shoot Skinner, and here it seems at first that Ressler did shoot Bobby. But surprise, he shot just past the head of Bobby (not in a box yet)....Interesting parallels between the two shows, and how the evil can be one's lover (LIz, Tom) and (potentially) one's co-worker (presuming there is still a mole within the FBI).
Maineiac, not being a usual viewer of this kind of series, I am intrigued by the postings with similarities to other shows. Sometimes I toy with the idea of watching one or more of the shows you all mention but then quickly realize The Blacklist and blogging with you all is a full time job!
I'm not the type to care for show romances, and have resisted thus far. But I was sold on the idea of Keen and Ressler based on this episode. Ressler, obviously, is grieving, and kudos to the writers for eschewing the cheesy factor of Keen comforting him (loved that he flickered off her touch, staying true to character). And Keen will undoubtedly experience trauma at having her "husband" turn out to be anything but (if the writers stay true to what they've shown us thus far...nefarious Tom Bond).
I was what this show needs is heart. Sure Reddington is fascinating, and a real show carrier, but the central attraction to this character (and his relationship with Keen) is the lure of mystery. Sure, there is a lot of heart in Red's own dark closet (ie ballerina scene), but the show needs heart that audience can relate to, and even root for.
Keen and Ressler are now more alike than ever, each battling loss and trauma. What better candidates to defeat these demons than each other? And I believe the writers have left some bread crumbs for this development in previous episodes. I didn't care for it at all, until this episode that what the show needs is redeeming, developing, trusting (for Keen), and healing (for Ressler) love that will be the heart that the audience can invest in.
MMW: I don't trust TV writers not to trade fan emotions for rating points. "Tune in next week to see if Lizzie forgives Ressler!." "Tune in next season to see if Ressler lives to see their new baby!" "Tune in to see if Ressler forgives Liz for having Red's baby!" "Tune in. . . ".
It would be like handing a loaded gun to a child and expecting them not to go BANG! BANG! I just don't trust the writers to be able to handle that kind of temptation.
Fluffy: That's sad to hear...But I personally think the writers have largely avoided the cheesy emotional tricks and traps (compared to other shows...and there are so many out there *roll eyes*). Don't think they'll make their romance a central story, that spot will always be occupied by Reddington, as he rightfully deserve. But this story is just heightened ACTION and MYSTERY. It needs....something else, something more (because those elements may get old or stale). It needs emotional connection, investment. And why not use Keen and Ressler, who seem to have great chemistry already.
Fluffy: One more thing.....NO WAY to Liz having Red's baby (although that will be ratings gold, haha). That's not happening, eek. (oops, did I just steer this convo to another direction?)
What does everybody think?
I'm looking at Tom's wall pictures. There are pieces of string interconnecting people in the photos, but I also see Luli and Newton's photos each with a red marker line across the face. These two are dead and I believe these markings indicate just that.
Everybody at the post Office new Luli was killed, but how did Tom know about Newton being dead? If Newton was made to work for the dirty FBI/Diane/Fitch group then they would know of Newton disappearance and Tom must have ties to that group . This would also go a long way towards explaining why he was cleared by FBI and Gina made to take the blame.
I believe Tom is some kind of assassin/ double agent working for both Berlin as well as FBI.
Just my 2 cents
Maineiac, thanks so much for pointing out the similarities between "Killing" and the Blacklist scenes with Ressler in the woods. Wow... it does seem over and over again we notice similarities to movies and other TV programs. This gives us hope that perhaps Jolene IS still alive, as CES2 pointed out that the same thing happened in "Girl with a Dragon Tattoo part 3," she managed to dig herself out of her grave. Ha! Let's see... first we have Red is Liz's father vs , no he is not the father.... Now we can have Jolene is alive! vs No, Jolene is dead dead dead. We'll see......
And CES2 I think you are absolutely right, Tom must have had someone on the inside to give him all that information. It must have been Diane. If not Diane... then we still do have an unknown element in the post office. (Oh I hope it is not Aram!) In which episode did Diane die? Did Red shoot her in the Cyrprus agency episode? Because if Tom had pictures of Madeline Pratt and the Judge, then there is STILL someone in the FBI funneling information to him.
CES2, I forgot to explain that I still think that Diane worked for both Berlin And Fitch, but that they are separate factions. Tom did not know that the surveillance house was across the street, and also Diane was upset that she was being watched. We know both cases of surveillence are tied to Fitch. Also, did Tom have any pictures of Diane on the wall? The absence of pictures may indicate that she was his ally, his inside contact..
Charmed wrote: "The Blacklist is the first and until last week, the only thing I've ever posted about. I just thought I would pull up this blog, to read what I felt were my buddy's comments about a show we love. I would never want to ruin anything for anyone. My apologies. I just needed a break, because of my dog. " In reply, Down with spoilers wrote: Thank you Charmed. No hard feelings.
Charmed, you always make such intuitive and interesting observations about the show, and are always polite and welcoming to all posters. It's hard not to notice that your input has been missing for the last few days. Sometimes you disappear because of life's interruptions, as you call them, but it's also hard not to be concerned . I hope everything is okay, my friend. Miss you. I hope your dog is okay.
Only three more days until.... oh wait. They changed the name of the episode again. Now it's "Harrison Lee," instead of "Ivan." Thanks CES2 for the info.
I also wanted to give a nod to the writers of this last episode, before we roll onto the next one. What a vast improvement in dialogue, pacing, EVERYTHING. It was an "on the edge of your seat" thrill a minute episode...something definitely different from a few of the prior episodes (that shall remain nameless). I hope it continues.
Anna, I like your thoughts about Tom working for Diane group - that would explain how he knew about Red searching Alchemist's files for Lucy. Bit more difficult to see how he knew that Red obtained Lucy Brooks ' Vicap number from Wujing though.
Next episode should be really interesting, NBC, Canadian Global and Australian Ch7 all like to tease us with their promos, they all keep chopping scenes, use parts of dialogue from previous episodes but in a totally different context.
The one thing that keeps us all watching this show is that it is totally unpredictable. I don't want to see a romance between Keen and Ressler or Keen and Reddington. I think I would stop watching if that happened. I don't even want to see sexual tension between them. What I would like to see between Keen and Ressler is a strong friendship and bond form between them. However with this revelation regarding his former partner Bobby, I think he is going to build a wall and not let anyone get that close again for a very long time.
My theory on the taking of Liz. I believe before his family was taken from Reddington, dead or alive, he was a good person, strong morals with a high security clearance position in the Navy. The parable of the farmer pretty much says that he became this way due to that incident with his family. So I doubt that he took Liz and gave her to Sam prior to the incident with his family. Even now he seems to be a ruthless killer with a moral compass. Maybe someday we will know the answer to which came first.
The second time I watched last weeks episode I did notice that Jolene almost seemed to be panicked when Tom starts blaming Reddington for hiring cowboy. I wonder if her job was to keep an eye on Reddington but also keep him alive, which would mean she has some connection to Fitch, whose people do not want what Red has on them to get released. She seemed scared that Tom would find out it was Reddington and kill him. He already said that he could have put a bullet in him outside the hospital that day and she responded strongly with "That is not your mission".
Also, since Tom has not heard anything from his handler, he had to go dark when the "go box" was revealed, Berlin got nervous that he may have really fell in love with Liz and the mission was compromised. That is why they sent Jolene to seduce him, and when he responded with "I can't because I love my wife" she said WRONG ANSWER. At that point I am sure she was afraid that he had fallen in love with Liz and that is why he went dark. I am sure that Jolene was on the phone to her boss giving an update when she threw that phone away and I believe Tom's brother is going to be his handler that is sent because Berlin is nervous when they lost contact with Jolene. Also Jolene might have told Berlin that Tom seems to have the desire to kill Red.
When Zumani was at their house he told Liz "I don't know why my friend Reddington he is so obsessed with you". I don't know if he was instructed to say that in front of Tom so Tom would be aware that Reddington was in contact with Liz or if Zumani was just giving his opinion. The threat from Red to Tom outside the hospital was definitely to insure he got the message.
What I love about this show, they give you a piece to the puzzle that fits right in the middle but then they give you some pieces that don't fit anywhere and must be set aside to fit in later. Like Jolene, we first learned about her in episode 3 but didn't learn who she was for sure until episode 15 at the end or episode 16 when her and Tom actually interact. Out of all of our speculation I don't think any of us were correct about who she was and what her purpose was. Let's face it, predictable shows are boring.
Fergy-Great comments about Jolene and Tom's brother coming into play. It would make sense. We will find out shortly.
I like your pieces of the puzzle comments also. Doesn't Red have a "puzzle" quote in an episode? I cannot remember it.
And I agree-no romances for this show. It would ruin it.
CES2 - that was an interesting point about Tom knowing Grey was dead. We don't know what Red did will his body and maybe just his disappearance suggests he's in the same place as Diane. Still Tom has so much information that would not have come from bugging Liz.
Fergy - I'm with you that a romance between key characters would ruin the show. The sideline romances, like Madelaine and Red, possible affair with Jolene and Tom etc. is enough for this show. I hope they don't go the soap opera route. Hadn't thought of the show as a puzzle, but that's exactly what it is.
I just read something interesting on another site that I just HAD to share, even though I was supposed to watch basketball all day (OH NO Bracket busters!) and I have posted way too much.... but here goes.
Apologies if someone has already mentioned this... but I don't remember seeing it.
When Ressler pins down his buddy Danny in the woods he says, "I'm only telling you this because I know you're gonna die.... But I'm working with Reddington now..." Ressler really thought he would kill Danny.. but he didn't. Isn't Danny the head of a powerful criminal organization and isn't he headed to prison? He now knows that the valuable asset at the FBI is... Raymond Reddington. This really opens up a whole new can of worms for Red, if Danny tells any of his criminal connections that Red is working with the FBI... Red would not be able to move among them and garner their trust. He definitely would be on quite a few more hit lists, if he isn't on several already. I thought this was something that might pop up in a future episode, the repercussions of Ressler's comment... but maybe the writers will just forget that it ever happened.
Also I just briefly wanted to throw in my 2 cents about romance on the Blacklist. Please. No. No romance. It is believable that partners or colleagues in a police drama, etc. would always have their partner's back, and care about them. But that does not mean that it has to lead to a hook up. I'm not sure about the FBI, but I think that police agencies etc. do not allow "fraternization" between officers, etc.. I agree that it would ruin the show. Instead, focus on Red, so that the wall he has built to keep others away starts to crumble, and he is able to let someone close enough again to"feel the light." He's been alone long enough.
Anna - Bobby stabs himself with the knife Donald gave him at the end to avoid going to prison and my impression was that he was dead. I liked how Donald turned to look but showed no emotion, like he could care less.
I like your idea about Red maybe finding love but down the road, season 3 maybe. Still have to wonder what happened to his wife and why he doesn't talk about her.
I'm here, but I have a lot of reading to do.
On romance for the Blacklist...I think the writers should leave the romance like the one sentences Red uses on Madeline Pratt when she said she had a proposition for him- Red said, "In that case, perhaps we should move to your room.' Short and sweet and over with in a flash.
You are right, Redravenous, thanks. I don't know why I thought Danny might be still alive, I forgot about the knife. I guess I blocked out that part, one too many deaths I suppose. It was a relief that Ressler did not kill his friend when he fired all those shots. (Doesn't it seem that in any other police drama, some one would have fired on Ressler the moment he fired that first shot?)
It also never occurred to me that Red may have had something to do with Mako escaping from that SUV after the accident, when Ressler went after Danny.
Good to see your post, Charmed.
Anna, I wonder if Danny didn't kill Mako when he shot him in the backseat or then the resulting accident may have finished the job. So, I like to think Red didn't kill him but rather just took the dead or dying Mako from the SUV and when dead had his head removed. When Donald said to Red " let me guess,he crossed you and now you want his head in a box" and Red responded "that's a thought", it makes it seem like Red likely killed him. Whether it was Danny or Red, he still got his head in the box. Good writing.
JC: I'm hoping that, too. Spot on.
Don't mean to beat the dead horse any further, but as far as romance between character, it seems like it's already beyond what the audience "wants" at this point. The road for Keen and Ressler romance was paved from early on, and I just refused to accept it until this ep. Here's hoping that the writers write them with class and style.
I don't personally watch shows for romance, but I realized that it has something to do with how interested I am. I stopped watching Elementary because it just got boring, and nothing "hooked" me in. I also stopped watching Castle because I found the couple so cheesy and ridiculous (my apologies to Castle fans! to each his own, I guess). After Tom's story ends and dust settles, the writers need a beta story (alpha being Red mystery). I'm fine with the beta being a nice romance. It'd be a nice juxtaposition from all the action.
JC WROTE:"I think the writers should leave the romance like the one sentences Red uses on Madeline Pratt when she said she had a proposition for him- Red said, "In that case, perhaps we should move to your room.' Short and sweet and over with in a flash.
I agree. An occasional "hookup" between partners or old friends can be good for the souls and add cohesiveness that 8-to-five can't. If done correctly, the rest of the group can even be aware. Just no soap opera., please.
I just want to thank ANNA, FERGY, CES2, BC and all of the many others who donate their time and energy to helping the rest of us keep abreast when we are unable to watch or understand a particular episode. M current understanding would be much less than it is without you.
Thanks also to the newbies or previous lurkers whose fresh perspectives keep is all awake to new ideas. You add more to the Blacklist than we could ever hope to receive from any other unofficial source. Thanks to you all for adding so much to the Blacklist Community.
Thanks Fluffy.
I just watched the ending again. Did anyone else notice how close Mallick was when Danny took the knife and stabbed himself? She didn't even shout, "No, don't" or attempt to stop him.
Also, I watched the shower scene again. Tom's left thumb is not bloody when they first show him in the shower, scrubbing his hand.
So maybe Tom's real name is "Harrison Lee" ?
I wonder why the switch? And only a few days before the episode.
The episode name is always the Blacklister, so changing the name of the episode probably has nothing to do with Tom. From what I have read the episodes are split 70/30 Blacklister/story arc.
So if the Blacklister was "Ivan" and is now "Harrison Lee" they had to make some changes in the episode.
And I thought they took out all of the pay phones. I haven't seen one in years. Tom is on a pay phone.
Harrison Lee is a student. I don't know why they changed the episode name to his but we will find out on Monday.
Fergy, I too believe that before his family tragedy Red was, as you said "a good person with strong morals" , working possibly in counter-intelligence .
But maybe Red helped Liz and her mother escape a brutal regime and a brutal husband , maybe her mother got killed and Red gave Liz to Sam for protection? Whatever happened to Red's family could have happened later , in retaliation for that act?
Two scenes in Episode 1 caught my eye – Liz sharp exhale and expression on her face when she first sees Reddington through the window at Post Office and the scene in the park after the bomb is diffused.
Ressler is handcuffing Red, Liz is kneeling next to Beth, Red bends slightly towards Liz with a smile on his face, Liz lifts her face up to look at Red.
My interpretation here is that she is exactly in the same positions she would have been as a small child looking high up into his face -I think that on some subconscious level she remembers that face and to me this explains why all through the first episodes( until Tom is proclaimed innocent in Gina Z episode) she is subconsciously drawn to Red."
" I do not even know why I'm here…." she says to Red in Frederick's apartment.
CES2, where did you find the information about the name change for the next episode? I can't seem to find it any where, most of the sites still say "Ivan."
there are few places by now, Spoiler TV is one of many
Thanks CES2, I see it now. Mark Ivanir is guest starring as "Ivan." Interesting, they borrowed part of his his last name.
Spoiler Alert or common knowledge -
Aram is going to get more screen time in this next episode.
AAnna, you forgot the knife scene w resslers buddy in the snow cause there were 7 kills! In 1 hour! Disturbing!I I know, I know....I've said that enough already just saw an opportunity to say it again
Fluffy, I agree s the thanks out to everyone!
JC short and sweet. Yes!
CES2 Thanks for the info 're Tom's wall. How would he know the grey is dead???
ziti, after thinking about Tom's wall a bit more I came to the conclusion that either Tom gets a lot of info and photos from the dirty FBI group or the wall is just a collection of photos that prop people put together from whatever was handy.
I don't think the pro people would be so careless on a show where every detail matters.
So glad we'll see more of Aram, but I hope that doesn't mean he's a bad guy!
I am still having a hard time with them changing the title of tomorrow's show from "Ivan" to "Harrison Lee" so close to the air date. If the blacklister is the name of the show, and the show has been filmed already, how are they changing the "bad guy" at the last minute?
Marie, you make a good point. They did change Madeline Pratt's last name three times before that episode aired, but it didn't really have any impact on the episode.
I am just taking a guess here... but perhaps it will be similar to "The Cyprus agency," being more than one person behind the entire adoption agency. They did not use the CEO.s name... I can't remember his name now, even though he turned out to be the Blacklister. Maybe in this case, the Blacklistter is more than one person.
Also... could it be a case of "Ivan" being a theoretical spy, much like the "Judge?" I think some people initially thought that the Judge was just a myth.
The episode synopsis says something about "A cyber defense asset is stolen." If Harrison Lee is a teenager (or college student?) perhaps he made up the name Ivan. Perhaps the student is a computer prodigy and is helping someone steal classified information. (I'm just guessing.) Or Ivan is his father. I don't think that the name change alters the story... perhaps it will just alter the name that Red chooses to have on the Blacklist. (In other words the writers changed their minds.)
We are still wondering what happened to "The Katana" because there was so much talk about that episode on Facebook and twitter by cast and crew.. It's still missing... although it might have been changed to "Mako Tanida."
Thanks, Anna.
I think the student is Harrison Lee and Ivan is another person.
Yes, maybe the blacklister is more than one person.
We shall see...one more day.
Maybe Harrison Lee is the "asset" and Ivan is the "assailant"?
It would be nice if the writers explained themselves on things like this on "After the Blacklist" clips.
Ziji, I'm good. Sweet.
Anna, re your question- my 12 year old/bladder stones. I guess I was needing the "comforting lap" of our blog. He had mine. He's better. The Blacklist - Bloody Week
Down with Spoilers- In that state of mind, since I thought I came bearing gifts, I guess (as my little niece used to say) "my feelers hurt". Usually I am a sweetheart, as Redravenous said.
Fluffy, I love your "seldom humble" opinions!
Fergy, OMG! I know what you mean about Red's scene in the theatre, clutching the old program. So sad for you to lose hope at the end of the--------> 16th episode. No one put up a better argument for Red being Liz's father.
Marie, Megan Boone tweeted four days ago that they finished episode 117. So there would no problem changing the blacklister's name. They may have rewritten a bit. But they didn't have to re-film any scenes. They tend to film very close to show time. There is even a site called OLV, that you can check to see when and where they are filming (tv shows and movies).
As a matter of fact Megan also tweeted that after filming episodes 118-121, they would be finished for the summer. Yikes, I thought they were filming 22 episodes. Right? So only 5 more episodes to go?
What do you think of this?
Charmed-I think we need to get a bus or take the train and go to a filming. Don't they shoot in NYC? I live in CT. Easy for me to get there.
Thanks for the info on OLV. I will check it out.
And I am OK with spoilers.
Charmed, about those 21 episodes... maybe what Megan Boone meant was they haven't finished 18,19,20 and 21 yet but maybe they already have the last episode of the season, the finale all done? Maybe 1.22 is done and dusted as Joe Carnahan said about the Katana episode. If the last show of the season is already done, the cast and crew would have to be very careful not to let any details leak out about what happens, about cliffhangers, etc.. Then again, the last episode of the season is supposed to air in May.... and if they filmed it during the winter, there would be snowbanks, etc. Unless of course, that it all takes place indoors, or they filmed it in California, not New York.
James Spader has to leave soon to meet his obligations for "Age of Ultron" that is filming in London. He was supposed to leave in March. It seems they must have filmed continuously through the holidays and the Olympics, etc, hopefully to get all of Red's scenes done. I hope that is the case, and we do get ALL 22 episodes.
Hi everyone! I have been out of touch recently due to work obligations and a much needed vacation where there were no TVs. I have been able to read all of the comments for this episode but missed the previous few weeks. So If I ask something that is in appropriate or common knowledge, please excuse me.
1. I went to the previous website which was being used by many of you, and It said "Site not Published". I was really disappointed and confused. How would I get my insight on The Blacklist??? I went searching for another blog and viewed this one, which was the original one I started with. So, if I may ask, what happened to the previous blog that we are no longer using it? I thought the administrator was doing a great job. I do have to say, though, that I am so thankful I found everyone again.
2. In the beginning, Red had a chip in his neck to be used to know his location. That chip was removed by the EMT in the ambulance when Anslo takes him from the Box. Why haven't the FBI replaced the chip? I know he was on the lam for a while after the Anslo episode and they didn't know where he was. I believe he has been back into the Post Office since the chip removal. Why didn't they replace it then? Or does he now have a chip in place and I missed its placement?
Thanks for your answers in advance.
Anna, Thanks for your help. They do like to mess with us sometimes. "Episodes 18-21 before a beautiful summer." So maybe they have filmed the 22nd or they will film in a location that is "summer-like". But since the show runners were talking earlier about letting us know more of what happened with Red's family, they might not need different weather. They may film out of sequence.
Master of Kind Words.....
Spader was on the Tonight Show last week so he is free to go film his movie if they have wrapped up the series.
I would not expect Age of Ultron to be that time consuming. Ultron is a robot, I wouldn't think he is doing much more than the voice. I'd think Ultron is going to be all CGI added after the fact. They are supposed to be focusing filming early on Black Widow before her pregnancy starts showing.
Marie, I hope you can make it to the filming of one of the last several episodes. If you do, be sure to report in.
CTMom56, Welcome back! Ask questions, you know us. We don't care. Our old site went down on March 3rd. Anna said it was 10:00pm Eastern. We don't know why. The administrator had a lot going on. I was just glad to be a part of it, for as long as it lasted. We were also disappointed and confused. We came back to WSJ, since they had rescinded the Facebook log in. Maybe Jason Evans missed everybody too!
Red did come back to the post office, and later saved Cooper's life. Maybe Cooper has just counting his lucky (Red) stars and hasn't thought of it yet. Be sure to read the review and comments on the Judge too.
Charmed, Thanks for the answers. I was so disappointed when the site wasn't available. I learn so much from the variety of people who post here, especially intricate facts, that I missed when I watched it. I am very thankful to have found everyone again. I was just wondering why the FBI hadn't put another tracking chip in Red yet. Perhaps they are beginning to rely on him and his information????
Megan might have make a typo. There are 22 episodes and the finale airs May 12th. I doubt that they filmed the finale already too. I hope during the down time that they re-run all of the shows in succession for the new blacklisters that want to understand the whole story. I know of several people that started watching after they heard all the talk about the show but they don't grasp the whole story because they didn't watch it from the beginning. I think we all have an advantage because we have watched the characters develop and put valuable clues and details together. Otherwise it looks like another procedural show with Red being an informant of some sort.
I know Charmed can you believe that I jumped ship on the Liz being Red's daughter. She still may have been from an affair that he had but I am really leaning toward he saved her from someone or something and that too would cause this paternal instinct that he has for her. I do hope by the end of this season we do learn more about their connection, where it began and how much he has been in her life in the shadows.
CES2, I never thought of that scenario. Maybe he was ordered to take Liz and the retaliation was an attack against his family. That is a possibility.
YES, how did Tom know that Gray (Newton Phillips) was dead? Remember he asked Red to make it look like an accident for his family. Tom must have been involved with Diane, if that is the case then Fitch knows about Liz and what her importance is to Red. Remember Anslo asked Red what her name was, then after he chatted with Fitch he knew her name was Elizabeth Keen. He told Red he was going to capture her, torture her and kill her while Red watched. Just before Red killed him.
When Jolene was walking into her building with the Cowboy following her and Tom coming up behind him, I initially thought that Tom was there to kill Jolene and that he just lucked up on catching the Cowboy. Did anyone else think that? Also, I wanted the Cowboy to shout something out while Jolene was leaving a message for Lizzie. Wouldn't that have been fun seeing Tom sweat wondering if Lizzie heard something in the background? I still think that Jolene may be alive. She went down way too easy for a special agent, so I am thinking that she planned it. Just my thoughts.
Fergy -I like the retaliation scenario because it lets me believe that Red came to FBI to protect Liz ( for some reason there is a real threat) and that the reason he killed Sam was to spare her the knowledge that Red's family was killed because of her, as a direct result of Red's action.
Only time will tell....
JC, did you mean when Bobby stabbed himself in the last episode? Or was there someone named Danny too?
Thank you Mr. Smith... for believing that Jolene just may still be alive, I do too. . Welcome to the "anythings possible" club. Evey time I watch that scene it seems she goes limp just a little bit too quickly. It would be a real shock and surprise if she turns up, wouldn't it?
So you know want kind of surprises me....I don't even really "know you guys", I don't have the analytical mind that some of you do who come up with all kinds of theories and then shares them with all of us (in other words, I don't post as often as some), and i dont have the technical know how to figure out that tom has pictures showing that grey is dead.....but I feel some sort of protectiveness toward y'all. Charmed, I felt it. And after a long day away from the site, I was catching up on all the posts, but one cut. So I posted (in my own way) to chill out. Others jumped on board too. But my protectivness surprised me.
Im glad you are back charmed. And know that your buddies had your back!
ziji, Try this to look at screen grabs. Let's see if this will even post to this blog first.
ziji, it worked. Check out that site and I will also pull it up tomorrow. I haven't learned all the ins and outs yet. I just learned to copy and paste last month. A special friend taught me. OK, it was Anna. But if you ask, those of us who know will answer. To me, when I started commenting, I felt these people really had super powers or something.
ziji, I have to say that your comments really touched me. It means so much these days to touch even one person, or to make one person smile. PROTECTIVE is the word I've needed, and the feeling I've had since I was welcomed "late to the party" on the old site. Thank you and I'm glad I came back to make a new friend.
Don't worry, Ziui. We've got your back, too. It doesn't take long for a heterogeneous group to bond with each other through a common interest. And that goes for those who haven't even posted yet. We Cracksters are an equal-opportunity family. We may not always agree, but what family does??
Tomorrow night, people. TO-MOR-ROW NIGHT!!
Charmed. What great comments. You did it.
That is a very valuable link you posted, I use it every day. That's where you can find just about any scene from an episode and study it. That's how CES2 and AM know exactly what was on Tom's wall and how we saw that Tom's thumb was very bloody. If you ever have a question about anything that happened, that is the place to go. ( Also some lovely close ups of Red are visited quite frequently.)
You guys. Your comments are so touching. Ziji, thanks for bringing up this topic, just like Charmed, you both have such a way with words (Charmed, would your little niece say that 'My feelers are all warm and fuzzy'?). Thanks Fluff for your kind words yesterday and again today, reminding us all that the posters here truly are a family..
Fluffy -thank you for your kind words -due to time difference at times it takes me a while to catch up on posts .As you said we all work together at unravelling the mysteries, every contribution is valuable.
ziji if you need to know more about screencaps just ask.
CES2. that scene that you described so perfectly yesterday... It seems as if there is a lot of symbolism in all the episodes, in what is shown as well as what is said in the dialogue. A few posters have commented about the symbolism, how some seem not to notice. Perhaps much of it goes over our heads. Like me, for instance... when I complained that the lighting was horrible in the horse barn in the "Judge" (I wanted to see Red more clearly). It took the second viewing (for clueless me ) to realize that it was done purposely just as it was done with Madeline Pratt in the jail cell scene, and just as it was used again in Monday's episode, when Liz is talking to Red in the car about Ressler.. We only see Red's eyes... highlighted by slivers of light across his face when he tells her that no one can kill someone in cold blood and come out okay on the other side. We know that he is speaking from personal experience, and the scene is telling and more dramatic because of the darkness and the way it was filmed.
But the scene you mentioned makes me want to watch all the episodes again and look for symbolism in scenes such as the one you mentioned, of Liz gazing upward to Red standing over her, just as a child would look up to an adult, or a parent.. The writers and directors film episodes carefully and with purpose. Maybe we've missed some other clues. Perhaps some people can spot the symbolism better than others. You certainly have that gift, CES2.
CES2, Charmed, Anna-Can you tell me what site you all are talking about? (Charmed's comment at 1:55 on March 24)
I am rereading posts but cannot find what you are speaking of.
Is it "screencapped.net" or something else? Let me know. Thanks
JC, Yes is is screen capped.net. I posted the link in the 12:58am comment to see if it would work. We learn so much from each other and it's fun!
One simply must gush. Love the show! Love the updates! Love the comments! The comments add to the experience of the show. Above all must gush re James Spader as Reddington. It's not often TV gets it right with perfect casting.
Thrilled that the Tominator storyline finally has kicked into high gear. At last. Mako Tanida best ep in quite a while.
Dear Worst Wig Ever I mean Lizzy please don't actually be as vapid as the show's writers seem determined to portray you. Promise us it's all just an act.
And are we seriously expected to believe that any post-Hitchcockian female would really step into a shower without first checking to see if there's anything ... well ... psychotic ... going on in there? Eww, Tom. No shower facilities in the Tomcave? What must the interior of your auto look like after your little spree? You'd do well to emulate Red by keeping your own personal cleaner on staff.
Speaking of Kaplan, now THAT is someone I'd have no trouble believing could singlehandedly take out both Juicy and the Texan. I'd love to see Kaplan launch into a kickass windmill-of-death fight scene, at the end of which she is seen calmly tidying up icky bits of baddies with an industrial-sized ShopVac.
Anyhoo ... loved last week's episode and looking forward to seeing what happens tonight.
oops ... by "updates" I mean "recaps"!
Mr Smith wrote:
"When Jolene was walking into her building with the Cowboy following her and Tom coming up behind him, I initially thought that Tom was there to kill Jolene and that he just lucked up on catching the Cowboy. Did anyone else think that? Also, I wanted the Cowboy to shout something out while Jolene was leaving a message for Lizzie. Wouldn't that have been fun seeing Tom sweat wondering if Lizzie heard something in the background? I still think that Jolene may be alive. She went down way too easy for a special agent, so I am thinking that she planned it. Just my thoughts."
My first thought was exactly the same - that Tom was already there to kill Jolene himself but then I realized he did not yet know Jolene was compromised so he had no reason to kill her yet - they were on the same team working together, was still getting info from her and previously had met up at that same spot so it makes sense that Tom was keeping watch each time she came or went and likely saw this mysterious Cowboy following her in on his monitors so he snuck around back and surprised him.
It would've been great for Cowboy to have said something in the background when she left that message for Liz but its clear from the preview of tonight's episode that calling Liz from there is going to be what gets Tom in trouble - a cop is going to visit Tom/Liz at home and say Jolene is 'missing' and Liz is going to say 'she left me a weird message that same day saying her plans had dramatically changed' - then they'll trace the call to the secret lair address and voila!
As for Jolene going down so easy, she wasn't fighting a typical 180lb male - she was fighting a special agent that has MAD skills!! Did you see the way Tom took out Cowboy? He avoided every hit like a martial arts black belt and easily took out someone much bigger and stronger so doing the same to Jolene wasn't hard for him. Plus Jolene didn't seem like the Gina Z physical specimen/supremely athletic type - her skill was likely more of an infiltrator so she may not have any crazy skills - either way, Tom has serious fighting skills and that scene proves it.
Charmed and Anna-I cannot find where the individual screen shots are. I found them by accident yesterday. What do I click on again? Thanks
Did anyone think that Tom had his glasses off in the shower, and you know what THAT means!
CES2, I really enjoyed reading your interpretations of those early scenes. I thought Liz saying "I do not know why I'm even here" almost as if she was in a daze, was very telling. The retaliation idea is a very good one. We can run with that. The ideas we share make us feel closer, even at your distance.
Anna, Now you go and add symbology to the mix! Which is great and we will have the whole summer to view the Blacklist with a checklist in mind. Thanks for all your help. My niece may not have ever said "My feelers are all warm and fuzzy", but mine certainly were after reading ziji's comments last night and the comments today. Btw, are your brackets done?
Fluffy, I'm sure your first responder team finds you as valuable as our family does here. You are so open and willing to share.
Fergy, Maybe Danny was Ressler's former partner found dead in the snow. Everyday names seem to be harder for us to put a face to. I'm still thinking about your change of heart. Can't help it!
ziji, "I don't even really know you guys". That's what made this even more precious.
As for how Tom knew Gray was killed, he had access to all of Liz's info and may have bugged her badge and Aram said out loud - here's your mole and then Cooper said out loud "Who the hell is Newton Phillips?" so Tom couldve put 2+2 together to figure he was dead. I think Liz is the ONLY one that knew all the info Tom had amassed so he had to get it from her.
We saw that Jolene had been following Red and taken a pic of Newton right before/as he was being killed. The issue is Jolene and Berlin had NO contact with Tom since the show started so he could NOT have gotten the info from there. And if he was 'dark' as he stated, then he wasnt getting info from any other 3rd-parties like Diane/Fitch either (as some have speculated maybe he also was working with/for Fitch/Dianes group and/or Fitch/Diane's group is the same/connected to the Berlin group).
This means he only could've gotten those pics and all the info himself - clearly he is resourceful - so does he have his own mole on the inside? Probably - it's Liz but she just doesn't know it.
Mr. Smith wrote:
Also, I wanted the Cowboy to shout something out while Jolene was leaving
a message for Lizzie. Wouldn't that have been fun seeing Tom sweat wondering
if Lizzie heard something in the background?
ooh, that would have been brilliant. I wish the writers had thought of having the Cowboy do exactly that. Also wish they hadn't killed him off so soon. Along with the very entertaining repartee (Do the writers have a hat fetish? Or is it simply that James Spader makes hats look way yummy?), Cowboy and Red had some interesting hostility chemistry going on, and I wanted to see some backstory about that.
I still think agent Malik is a suspect to be a mole since she was the one who questioned and then cleared Tom.
Mr. Smith wrote:
Also, I wanted the Cowboy to shout something out while Jolene was leaving
a message for Lizzie. Wouldn't that have been fun seeing Tom sweat wondering
if Lizzie heard something in the background?
ooh, that would have been brilliant. I wish the writers had thought of having the Cowboy do exactly that. Also wish they hadn't killed him off so soon. Along with the very entertaining repartee (Do the writers have a hat fetish? Or is it simply that James Spader makes hats look way yummy?), Cowboy and Red had some interesting hostility chemistry going on, and I wanted to see some backstory about that.
Charmed-I figured it out-on screen-capped. A few interesting stills are there for tonight. I am trying to figure out what Red is doing in the last one. Maybe Red keeps the photo of Jolene?
Fangirl-a few of us thought that maybe Jolene really didn't call Liz on the phone but she in fact did. It was kind of too easy for Tom. And yes, you would think that the Cowboy would yell out something but he had just told Jolene that Tom was going to kill her and then him. So maybe he was just concentrating on getting loose from being tied to the chair.
Jolene could have scratched Tom or kicked him in the balls. She had a chance too but didn't. She was kind of a wimpy fighter for a spy.
The writers are using vehicles to reunite Red with the Feds so they can ditch the Red as Rogue story line.
1. Red saving Cooper's life
2. Red saving Ressler's life
3. Red sending Audrey to Ressler
4. Red exposing the baby factory
5. Red's continued presence in all other cases
He'll will be back running the show and dissing Ressler as before, until the next assassin steps up to the plate at the behest of another mole.
BC, About the mystery of how Tom knew about Grey. After Red does away with Grey, we assume that Liz does not know what Red meant by saying "My house is clean, is yours?" Liz did not know what happened to Grey, so even if she had a bug on her badge, etc., Red never told her about Grey. He certainly would NOT tell her about his little killing spree, even though the promotional clips show Liz mentioning that. It never happened. Also... wouldn't an FBI facility of all places, be able to detect listening devices, etc. on people that pass through their doors? And wouldn't a sharp FBI agent know if someone had tampered with their cell phone?
Diane, the dirty rat option. Diane assures the committee members including Fitch that the mole is no longer a threat, which implies he is dead. Diane must be the only person that knew that Grey had been eliminated. Cooper tells Liz that there is no longer a threat,(that Red should come to the post office) but he does not say that the mole is dead. Red promised Grey he would make it look like an accident, so we have to assume no one suspected Red killed Grey. Certainly not Liz or Cooper. The task force shifts from hunting Red at all costs to welcoming him back with open arms, with no mention of Grey at all. So I am not sure Cooper knew anything except what Diane told him, which might have been minimal..
If Tom went "dark" and didn't communicate with Berlin, perhaps he was still receiving information from Diane about Red's cases, so he learned about Grey that way.
Oh no another mole, option. It's possible there is still someone at the post office sending Tom information. I tried looking at "Tom's wall of pics" to see if there was any pictures of the Judge or of Madeline Pratt... because those are the two cases that happened after Diane's death. I didn't see their pictures (but perhaps they just weren't pertinent to Tom's little string display). But it also may mean Diane was gone, and could no longer send information to Tom. Also missing... Cooper and Diane's pictures, which might mean they were Tom's allies.
The accomplice option. Maybe this all comes down to Tom having an accomplice, some one (not in the post office) that he hired to take photos of Red and follow him. Tom could not do that... Red or Dembe would recognize him, and he certainly would not have been able to travel the same way Red managed to... because of his cover as a teacher and a husband. Berlin would not know about this "accomplice" and even if Tom went dark, his accomplice could still follow Red closely and amass all the information for Tom.
I read some wonderfully intriguing and insightful comments above, but now am having trouble locating them. Just want to comment on this one:
Someone posted that there is a connecting thread or common ground of tragedy now between Ressler, Liz and Red -- all three of them have in varying senses of the phrase "lost" children -- Ressler, discovering the positive pregnancy test at the end of this episode -- Liz, having finally (finally) faced the hard fact that she and Tom should never (everever) adopt a child together -- and of course Red, whose child was -- he believes -- horribly, devastatingly, murdered.
The recognition of this shared loss connecting these three characters is moving, and interesting. I definitely hadn't seen that connection.
And someone else pointed out that Red in a previous episode, when speaking of the black night of his own soul, said "all there was, was blood". Until I read that insightful commentor's post, it hadn't occurred to me that, wait a minute, what Red is saying is that there were no bodies. The bodies of his family weren't there in the house that terrible night ... "all there was, was blood".
So, I'm wondering, have the show's writers led us down a false trail, in making us think (at least, I thought) that Red's family is indeed dead? When it might (as in, maybe) be that Red's family has actually been alive all this time? It's obvious ... or it seems to be obvious ... that Red himself believes they're dead. But what if he ... and at least some of us ... are mistaken? There was blood ... but whose blood?
Red, as many of us, has been assuming the blood was the blood of his slain family. But what if it wasn't? What if someone -- the secret organization, or other enemies of Red -- actually took Red's family alive, and then "planted" blood from some unknown source (a slaughterhouse?) at the scene?
Is that a possibility? I can't locate the original posts now (have spent more than an hour reading recaps and comments! Time flies when you're obsessing about a TV series) but whoever wrote them, kudos to you for such thought-provoking stuff.
SH wrote:
Fangirl-a few of us thought that maybe Jolene really didn't call Liz on the phone but she in fact did. It was kind of too easy for Tom. And yes, you would think that the Cowboy would yell out something but he had just told Jolene that Tom was going to kill her and then him. So maybe he was just concentrating on getting loose from being tied to the chair.
Jolene could have scratched Tom or kicked him in the balls. She had a chance too but didn't. She was kind of a wimpy fighter for a spy.
ooh that would have been interesting, if she had only pretended to call Liz! hmmm ... so many interesting alternate paths the plot points could have taken ...
That's a great point, that Cowboy was preoccupied with trying to free himself. Again, I hadn't thought of that.
Well, he was a cool character. Wish he'd stuck around a while longer to exchange smartass lines with Red
You who have written comments here ... just, wow! Obviously I missed a ton of details. Have decided to take the afternoon off to watch all the episodes again. Maybe "the pieces of the puzzle" will make more sense. Ciao, fellow fans!
PS I'm sorry for not knowing how to copy/paste quoted comments. Any tips for formatting posts?
m1n3rva at hushmail
One thing that has kind of bothered me is that Lizzie takes calls from the Post Office/etc. when she is standing right next to Tom. I forget what episode it was but the blacklister name was on her phone and all Tom had to do was look over at her phone. He was standing right next to her. I think she is a little sloppy with her phone at home and I am sure Tom can easily look at all her calls when she is in the shower (alone).
Tom told Lucy he didn't know who put the cameras in his house. The cameras were put there by Fitch and Diane. If Tom were working with Diane, he'd have known who put the cameras there. He was not working with her, she's not on his wall, neither is Fitch. Madeline Pratt is - in the top right corner, standing with the Syrian embassy escort and Red is in a picture in the tux he was wearing next to it.
Liz must have been bugged, that was one way for Tom to get info. Probably her phone and maybe a listening device embedded into her badge. Phones can be turned into listening devices, watch an episode of Person of Interest if you're not sure how it's done.
Red didn't hide Gray's body. Gray asked Red to make it look like an accident for his wife and Red agreed to do so. Gray's body therefore would have been found and buried by his family. It was not a secret that Gray died, only that Red killed him. So Tom could have easily gotten that knowledge on his own.
It's my working theory right now that Gray was Tom's source of info and that Gray was a double mole - working for Berlin for a long time, and for Fitch for a very short time. Maybe the cameras in Tom's house picked up his interactions with Gray and Fitch moved in on Gray and not only threatened to harm his family but threatened to out him to Red as a spy working with Tom. Even if Fitch didn't figure out who it was that Tom worked for, he knew he killed Victor and he knew he was working with Gina, so that was enough to implicate Gray as working against Red with an outside group. And enough to blackmail into working with Fitch as well.
There's an interview out with Ryan Eggold today that is full of spoilers, I'm actually sorry I read it, so I'm not going to make it easy to find by posting a link. If you want to be spoiled and ruin some fun, it's probably easy enough to find.
Sorry, that last Anonymous comment was me. I have to remember to put my A.M. in the name box before I start typing my comment!
Fan girl, When you re-watch the episodes, be sure to turn on the Close Captioning . It helps so much. Enjoy!
I don't use any particular format for posting, as you can see. I just address the person, maybe give the time of their post if it's high on the thread and just start "talking". I just learned to copy and past and we can work on that.
Good points Anna and AM - I agree that Tom wasn't getting info from Diane/Fitch due to AM's point about the cameras in Tom/Liz's house that we knew were Fitch's. And I like the idea that besides Liz its possible he got info from his own outside 'accomplice' - not a mole per se but as AM suggests above, just a hired gun private investigator type to take pics just as Jolene was doing for Berlin and Cowboy was doing for Red. It wouldve been easy enough for Tom to get basic info via Liz, then tell his accomplice P.I. what to investigate etc.
Also remember Tom probably has AMAZING spy equipment - when Fitch's groups outpost was found, the FBI said the technology there was 'years ahead' of what was known and the FBI's own stuff - as such, Tom too probably has had plenty of high-tech ways to gain access to Liz's info.
And thanks for not outing the spoilers of the Tom/Ryan Eggold interview as I dont want to know! It's funny but over time, I've decided I like watching the show progress and unfold naturally without learning spoilers - things like 'Aram's going to have a bigger role this episode' or the 'this famous person will be guest starring' dont bother me at all - but knowing the storyline in advance is no longer appealing to me as one of the best elements of the show is being surprised so I avoided spoilers last episode and found it the best yet! That said I LOVE the previews at the end of each episode but nothing more!
Anna, thank you for pointing out those scenes with light and dark, this seems to fit so well with the theme of good and bad, right and wrong. Your comments are always so interesting .
Charmed, thank you for your thoughts, much appreciated. "Danny" is in fact "Donny" –the name Bobby Jonica calls Ressler ( Donald->Donny).
A.M I read the interview you mentioned, I agree with what you have written.
See you all after the next episode
CES2, Thanks. I saw a couple of commenters using the name Danny for Bobby and I didn't know the other guy's name (that was killed in the snow) so I assumed. I know...
Enjoy watching the episode tomorrow!
Charmed, I just realized I was one of the guilty posters that used the name Danny or maybe I started it HA! My apologies, I watched that episode three times and I still think Ressler's former partner was named Danny. Lets see... Bobby Jonica = Bobby, Donald = Donny.... nope. No Danny. Boy my face is red. Sorry. That's not so bad though... on the Wikia site I was reading earlier, they spelled Bobby as Booby. Too much basketball I tell ya!
I have to make a note to myself to pay better attention during the episodes
Oh. And to watch Person of Interest.
Maineiac, I also watched "The Killing" and you're right about the scenes being similar. I'll miss Linden, Holder, the rain, the fog and the sense of malaise.
Somehow, I think that several people have taken Tom's "wall idea" to heart with the great comments I've read this week. How many have started their own wall, including using notebooks and Yes, virtual walls do count?Anna and Fluffy would use colored ribbons and artistic license. Fergy and CES2 would have analysis/financial stmt ready for Berlin. Oops. Gotta go!
Does anyone else get antsy before an episode like me?
BC, short correction - I don't want to be given credit for someone else's post!
You wrote: "And I like the idea that besides Liz its possible he got info from his own outside 'accomplice' – not a mole per se but as AM suggests above, just a hired gun private investigator type to take pics just as Jolene was doing for Berlin and Cowboy was doing for Red. It wouldve been easy enough for Tom to get basic info via Liz, then tell his accomplice P.I. what to investigate etc. "
That wasn't me. I think he got his info from Gray, who was a mole for Berlin long before he turned for Fitch. However, now that you reposted that comment, I definitely see that as another possibility, that he hired his own crew to help with surveillance and picture taking. I only question where would he have gotten the money to pay them - as he has been dark from Berlin for 4 months. Unless they gave him a large bankroll in advance - there was certainly a lot of money in his go box.
Only a few hours to go, see everyone on the comments to the next episode:)., Sorry CES2 has to wait an extra day! Redravenous - do you get the show tonight in Canada or do you have to wait a day or two as well?
Ha! Yes, I thought it was Bobbie but then Anna said Danny so I thought I had it wrong. Then Fergie corrected me and thought there was someone named Danny too! LOL
Charmed, I get antsy for sure, so reading all the posts I've missed in the last day ..... helps. I feel like a kid, anxiously waiting for something to come, like Christmas Day or a party.
For the first time this week I saw a preview for tonight's show and it looks good! Nothing else on t.v. even interests me right now. I'm just as anxious for our commentary that follows.
Sorry JC,my bad. The writers should introduce a character named Danny, imho.
Anna, you cracked me up with your post about Bobby, Danny, Donnie. I literally laughed out loud!
"Anna and Fluffy would use colored ribbons and artistic license. Fergy and CES2 would have analysis/financial stmt ready for Berlin", Yes Charmed this is spot on! LOL! You know us all too well.
The reason I asked about Danny is because there was so much going on in that episode I thought maybe I missed someone named Danny. I have been busy and had out of town guests so I haven't been able to watch the episode again. Thanks for the clarification.
Only 3 more hours....I can't wait!
Thanks Fergy, I'm glad you appreciated my sense of humor.
A.M and Charmed- to set the record straight I have a choice to either read Jason's excellent recap as soon as it appears ( thank you Jason!) and read your comments or wait a day and HALF until I can see it. Decisions, desisions.
Up to now Jason's recaps always won......
JC, Assbackwards Anna, CES2, Booby and Fergy, et al-
Since I made the mistake of trying to answer a question earlier, without knowing the answer. I just had to find out the other agent's name, after all he was Donny's friend - PETE MCGUIRE.
So the naysayers are tight, right,right. Jolene is dead, dead, dead
Lizzie knows!!!!
OMG..hurry up Jason!
The wait for recap is killing me!!!
Jolene looks much better with make up. I missed her lipstick.
FANGIRL Wrote: I'd love to see Kaplan launch into a kickass windmill-of-death fight scene, at the end of which she is seen calmly tidying up icky bits of baddies with an industrial-sized ShopVac.
OW OW OW, I just pulled something!!
Shame on you, Fangirl, I just laughed so hard I hurt myself!!
Not only does Lizzy know, but she is pissed!
It was not a stray bullet that killed Audrey. Mako although struggling with Ressler manages to quite deliberately shoot Audrey who he see over Resslers shoulder.
jim photographer will be joining the cast of days of our lives jim photographer will be playing as max brady in days of our lives jim photographer will be replacing actor darin brooks in days of our lives
lothar will be joining the cast of days of our lives lothar will be playing as max brady in days of our lives lotHAR WILL BE REPLACING ACTOR JIM PHOTOGRAPHER IN DAYS OF OUR LIVES
Why does this series not come on every week; why does it skip several weeks between episodes?
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