text:
Talk:Black Power
|WikiProject African diaspora
|(Rated Start-class, Top-importance)
|WikiProject Culture
|(Rated Start-class)
- 2 One sided
- 3 POV section
- 4 Racist point of view
- 5 This article needs serious work
- 6 Deacons
- 7 Criticisms Section
- 9 vandalism
- 10 The term-s introduction into public discourse
- 11 Clean- up
- 12 "Big Five civil rights organizations" reference
- 13 Racist
- 14 wait what?
- 15 Black is beautiful/ugly
- 16 "African American people throughout the world"
- 18 Organization
- 19 Remaining POV issues?
- 20 Lacking criticism
- 21 Why is this small article POV?
- 22 removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV
BLACK POWER[edit]
Pointed out that the term "black power" is racist, and removed "caucasian" as a term no longer in use with reference to the white race. All done in a NPOV framework. 18.104.22.168 13:10, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
- Hi, my name is Joel - I'm the one that "fixed this stub". Yes, I did read the guidelines on being unbiased. The problem is, with certain political issues, even the English language itself is biased. For example the term "Black people" as opposed to "African people" - these terms are both biased. "Black people" or "African-Americans" takes away the national identity claimed by African Internationalists, Pan-Africanists, etc., whereas "African people" defines people as being members of a nation which they may not have chosen to be. Many Africans in the U.S. are taught that Africans on the continent are backward savages, and so of course they would be disgusted at the thought that they are Africans.
- If anyone wishes to discuss other NPOV issues with this page, I'd be happy to hear your criticisms. In case I forget to check this talk page, my e-mail is <email@example.com>.
- just a though, think how messed up this article would sound if u replace black with white? anyways i dont support white suppremecist groups and actually im a leftist, but it just came across my mind. Jobe6 00:05, July 16, 2005 (UTC)
- I wholly agree with you Joel, afterall, Africa is a great nation. Wake up. The English language is not racist, people are. And to be honest, Africa does have a lot of savages. Look at the genocide in Rwhanda. Africa right now is like Nazi Germany, except it's gangs angainst gangs, factions against factions. Also, maybe people didn't chant African American Power! because it's a little absurd and most Black Power organizations didn't want African-Americans, they wanted darkly pigmented people with heritage from central and southern Africa. Lest we forget that there are Middle Easterners and whites in Africa. Would these Middle Easterners and whites from Africa be accepted into these Black Power organizations? Did any of these Middle Easterners or whites that were natives of Africa start any Black Power organizations?
Oh, and for the record, I'm not some conservative whacko, which I know some one will end up calling me. Gold Stur 15:30, 30 August 2005 (UTC)
- I also do agree except it's kind of awkward with this black and white power thing. They are two totally different things and one can't replace the other. I agree that it's not the country it's the people. This Black Power organisation was only for African Americans to feel confident about themselves. The Whites didn't listen and carried on making African Americans feel bad about being themselves. This is not right, for you should be proud of what you are and wher you come from. It just makes no sense... Intelligence105 08:07, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
- So people standing up for themselves, helping their own community, creating jobs for their community under their own power with no outside help is racist? Seems like a shallow, frightened, emasculating way to view the situation that many still find themselves in.
Hi. The wiki article states that MLK never endorses/acknowledges the term Black Power, but he does in fact reference it in "Where Do We Go From Here: Chaos or Community?" when he addresses the 1965 Watts Riots. Here is the quote: "A simple explanation holds that Negroes rioted in Watts, the voice of Black Power was heard through the land and the white backlash was born; the public became infuriated and sympathy evaporated." I'm pulling this out of a reader, so I can't reference the exact page. I'm also too lazy to edit this out of the actual article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 04:07, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
One sided[edit]
I know this is a sensitive issue, but let's compare black power with white power for just a moment:
Black Power is a slogan which describes the aspiration of many people of varying degrees of African descent for national self-determination. The term describes a conscious choice for blacks to nurture and promote their own models of value, rather than look for other races to validate them. It calls for Blacks to identify their historical struggle and work to help themselves.
White Power has been described as a racist ideal which describes the aspiration of many people of varying degrees of European descent for recognition of their collective identity based on skin colour and what is perceived as a common 'white' culture. The term describes a desire to take pride in the state of being "White." This concept has been compared to related ideologies, such as 'Black Power' and 'Black Pride'. The phrase is thought to have been coined by George Lincoln Rockwell during a white supremacist rally in Marquedt Park, Illinois in 1967 (whereby the term began being uttered spontaneously). There is a distinct possibility that the term was coined as a reaction to the contemporary usage of the term Black Power. Today, many racialist ideological factions, such as White supremacists, White separatists, White nationalists, White Christians and Neo-Nazis, adhere to the term White Power. (part of the Neo-fascism series)
I think we're generally being slightly one-sided here. Notice how the term racism or racist isn't used in the black power article, except in reference to white power? Is it just me, or do others see this imbalance? --Joewithajay 13:57, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
- The imbalance is appropriate. The terms are not parallel. Briefly, one groups doesn't have power and wants to get it. The other already has it and wants to preserve it. Those are very different situations. -Will Beback 19:25, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
- Maybe we should specify that "Black Power" might be considered racist in a way? Not in those exact words of course, but do compare "black power" to a racist ideal in some way... Yangosplat222 (talk) 16:51, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
In the United States of America, the Black Power Movement grew from the racial oppression and violence that blacks experienced at the hands of whites during the Nonviolent Civil Rights Movement. Black Americans had witnessed countless acts of brutality against their communities and were not being protected by the police. So arming themselves for self-defense became a viable option. Utilizing the U.S. Constitutional right to bear arms, the Black Panther Party successful created a community policing organization, which protected the Black Citizens from the fascist police and empowered them to keep their guns close at hand, while they protested against the constant threat of violence and death in their communities. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 03:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
- The imbalance may not be appropriate: The idea that a person has power if white and does not have power if black is extremely racist. For instance, most poor people in the US are white. It is very easy to make a strong argument based on evidence that many white people experience racism, just as many black people do. What you have admitted, whether or not you realize it, is that both groups pursue power. For a Wikipedia article, what I think we should be pursuing is fairness. It is not fair to write, "Racism against whites can be justified in the context of slavery." It is, however, fair to say, "Racism against whites is often justified in the context of slavery." One is a judgment; the other is an observation.--Tibbets74 (talk) 08:42, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
- Surely though, both sides are working toward the same goal? The only difference is they approaching it for different ends of the spectrum.--Crais459 14:57, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
- They are not working toward the same goal. Whites are in a position of privilege. Blacks are not. Whites trying to maintain their situation of dominance/submission is not egalitarian. Black power is a movement to overthrow that situation of dominance/submission. Rmilligan 00:40, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
- The imbalance is not correct. Black power used in certain ways IS racism. To deny that is just ignorant and bias.
That's very subjective. While I understand the cultural aspect, it doesn't really matter which group already has power since both - by definition of their names - are about obtaining power for, or due to, their race. There's no point in tip-toeing around black power - it's still racist, no matter how deserving it may be. Also, the current situation of a group shouldn't have any effect on how they're referred to - a set of beliefs isn't based on current situations, but rather on goals and values - things which would be timeless to the belief. --Joewithajay 00:11, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
- I'd like to quote some of Malcom X's statements on the matter.
- "If we react to white racism with a violent reaction, to me that's not Black racism. If you come to put a rope around my neck and I hang you for it, to me that's not racism. Yours is racism, but my reaction has nothing to do with racism."
- On the subject of black nationalism, he said: "[W]e should control the economy of our community. Why should white people be running the banks in our community? Why should the economy of our community be in the hands of the white man? The social philosophy of Black nationalism only means that we have to get together and remove the evils, vices, alcoholism, drug addiction, and other evils that are destroying the moral fibre of our community." -Ceredhion 16:52, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
- Racism = Prejudice + Power. White power is about maintaining a situation of dominance/submission. Black power is about overthrowing that structure. Rmilligan 00:40, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
I think we need to step back for a moment and consider the meaning of Racism (or more correctly, Racial Decrimination). The United Nations defines Racial Descrimination as: "any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life" In this context, ANY individual, group, organisation or nation that sets its own agenda over that of another based on the idea of race can be considered as advocating Racial Descrimination. Malcolm X, undoubtably a great and important political figure, was a racist. Personally, I believe in the idea of Meritocracy. To paraphrase another great and important political leader, I believe that people should "not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character".--Crais459 09:40, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
- Racism = Prejudice + Power. By this definition (the most specific and accurate definition I've come across) it is impossible for a group without to be racist. Rmilligan 00:40, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
A couple of things:
One, racism and racial discrimination are not the same thing. Discrimination is an act--by an individual, or more importantly by an institution. Racism is a _system_ of oppression and subjucation based on perceived biological differencs and very much interconnected to the economic system capitalism in all its forms including imperialism/colonialism. Can individuals be racist? Yes. But if that's the extent of your (mis)understanding of racism, then you're missing the point. Racism is indeed connected to unequal structures of power.
- The definition you are attempting to use for racism is not the standard definition from the dictionary. Yes, I too have seen it in a couple of academic papers, but it is by no means the accepted normal definition. In my opinion, this definition is designed to equivocate, to bestow upon social injustice all of the psychological baggage associated with the term "racist," while simultaneously ensuring that no non-white racists can be identified as what they truly are. If we ponder the ramifications of this alternative definition of racism, we can see that it is irrational: It labels the system (which is composed of individuals of multiple races) as working together to elevate only once race, yet it tries to assign the blame for that only to the white members. If it is truly possible for a society as a whole to be racist, the society as a whole is to blame.--Tibbets74 (talk) 09:12, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
Two, Black Power was never about an emulation of white or European constructions of power. Whereas the current structures of domination --which are of the tradition of European imperialism and (neo)colonialism--attempt to sustain relationships based on limited access to power, Black Power is an attempt to redefine power itself, such that people equal power.
This article and talk page is curious and misleading given the texts and activist/intellectuals who have been left out. It is impossible to take up a meaningful discussion of Black Power and not include Richard Wright, W. E. B. Du Bois, Angela Davis, Frantz Fanon, Ella Baker, Amiri Baraka and _the_ Black Panther Party to name only a few.
My name is Sky and I can be reached at email@example.com
Even though the two terms "black power" and "white power" sound the same, they stand for different things. "White power" seems to be more about white domination, "black power" is more about black solidarity. Of course it gets more complicated than that, but I wouldn't treat the two as equal but opposite. In any case, more sources are needed. Elhim 13:54, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
- But that is something I fail to understand. How is it that african americans can drive around in their cars with a bumper sticker that says "I'm black and proud of it" and then these people are looked upon as visionary and standing up for their right. But if I, being white but in no way a white supremicist (in fact these people who think they are better than others disgust me), place a bumper sticker on my car that says "I'm white and proud of it" every person I met would call me a racist. When in reality I've only changed one word. I believe that people who participate in either movement are racist in their very nature. The idea of racism is the belief that you are entitled to something because of your race which is what both groups advocate. Personally I am appalled that this article doesn't say anything about the groups inherent racist beliefs as does a similar article for white power. I, however, will not be the one to make these changes because I am sure if I do or if someone who doesn't agree with me simply reads this post then I will be called an avid racist for advocating fairness for similar statements.Whodoesntlovemonkeys (talk) 20:25, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
- This has obviously been heavily discussed on this page so I'm not going to repeat arguments that a number of editors have made. The difference relates to the history of racism and specifically of white supremacy. There is not a 1 to 1 equation between black and white power because of the very different historical circumstances from which they spring. For more detailed thoughts on this, take a look at the thread below titled "NPOV."--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 22:42, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
- That is IRRELEVENT he's talking about TODAY - not yesteryear, what .Whodoesntlovemonkeys says is absolutly CORRECT "The idea of racism is the belief that you are entitled to something because of your race", though I'd certain like to add "over somebody else" for a stricter idea. Black people are accepted to do something whites are not, THAT is racism, and having a chip on your shoulder about history is irrelevent. The fact that people support "Black Power" and keep claiming "White Authority" is the definitive proof of the current state of racism. Unfortunately because the racism is so ingrained it's un"reversable".... If people weren't racist, it would be; what a vicious circle. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kurtle (talk • contribs) 00:22, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
- This has obviously been heavily discussed on this page so I'm not going to repeat arguments that a number of editors have made. The difference relates to the history of racism and specifically of white supremacy. There is not a 1 to 1 equation between black and white power because of the very different historical circumstances from which they spring. For more detailed thoughts on this, take a look at the thread below titled "NPOV."--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 22:42, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
POV section[edit]
Removed the following from the article: "Black Power has emerged as a racist call to arms amoungst Black Seperatists and Black Muslims. Although one can identify the historical origins and conditions which give rise to its implementation, it's current place in pop culture is to provide a collective identity to racist African Americans. Associated with violence and discrimination some have losely compared it to the African American version of White Neo-Nazi sepratism. In several instances, meetings have taken place between the late Tom Metzger (WAR White Aryan Resistance) and Louis Farrakhan (Nation Of Islam)about racial speratist solutions. Black Power continues to exist in academia and in the minds and hearts of racist African Americans. In a lesser sense, but still firmly rooted in the origins of the black power movement, soft forms of black racism have emerged and expanded as they easily pass the litmus test of extremism set by early black racists and seperatists involved in the black power movement. The unstoppable tide set in motion by this fringe movement can be seen in Hip Hop, black only television netowrks, black student unions and black only celebrations and festivals."
Loaded words, unsourced assertions, and entirely POV. If there's anything that can be salvaged from it, the original is here to work with, but as it stands, this is just not workable for an encyclopedia. Justin Eiler 23:50, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
I think you need to list which words are in fact "loaded." To banish an entire portion of an article because it doesn't meet your sensitivty does nothing but placate your agenda. I find your edit distractionary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk • contribs)
- Distractionary is too big a word for me. --DanielCD 21:27, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
- It may be possible to salvage some of the above - In the main it is inflammatory in the extreme, but there is something to be said for it's mention of the rise of black racism, such as "black only" organisations and the like.--Crais459 15:03, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Racist point of view[edit]
Compared to its white counterpart black power, black pride, and black nationalism only present a sugarcoated point of view. They are completely lopsided giving one a completely negative connotation and the other a completely positive connotation. It is clear that all these words are defined in an American perspective but they are not American only. That being said, all the definitions need to be changed toward a fair and ACCURATE perspective. Anonymous User 22 July 2006
I would have to agree. Well Said! §
Racist should be part of first sentence. Along with violent. Reasons for these measures are by nature secondary to arcticle. Black Power identifies itself as black. It is self-segregating and exclusionary. Exceptions will be cited, but they oppose the major trend. Fighting oppression does not have to be race based. It's difficult to see perspective of black apologists on this issue, American Negro College fund is as clearly racist as Nation of Islam. Black power is often defined with violence also. Banding together based on race to obtain scarce resources in a competitive environment is detrimental to all others and clear racism. This is the philosophy of Rev. Wright and black liberation theology also. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 23:33, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
This article needs serious work[edit]
I did a little cleanup, but it's sadly lacking in information and seemingly intentionally skewed toward separatism, when black power has all kinds of ideological perspectives. And it's simply not very well written. I just skimmed Sky's comments, and I agree with him/her. This piece sux. deeceevoice 08:53, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree!!! I mean whoever wrote it needs more information on more important issues. I also think Sky in on the right track. It is misleading information.Intelligence105 08:17, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
the black power movement does not oppress or attack other races it defends and has the interest of black people it up lifts the race , the reason orginizations like this exist is because the society failed to enlighted our people on our history and made us feel inferoir to white people where as white power attacks and oppresses every race that is not caucasain
Seems to me that the Deacons for Defense and Justice should be mentioned as a precedent. - Jmabel | Talk 02:02, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Criticisms Section[edit]
I am a long time member of the 'far left' (The majority of my life now) and in this time I have seen far, far, far more people endorcing identity politics as a valid part of 'the struggle' (or whatever you wanna call it) with the Black Panthers, as well as more extreme Black Nationalists (including self proclaimed racist organisations such as the Nation of Islam) are supported, in the same way that anti-semitism is (rightfully) slammed in the west, but the majority of thje far left praises organisations such as Hamas, which have a self proclaimed anti-semitic agenda (read their core document). It's the same thing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gegen (talk • contribs) 23:32, 11 December 2006 (UTC).
Far left, eh? Don't second-guess yourself. Faradn
- The criticisms section is really quite terrible. It is completely unsourced and is basically a lot of conjecture and posting of comments about Black Power one might hear on the street from a random passerby. There was and is a lot of criticism of Black Power, but it should not be difficult to provide actual sources. This section is bad enough that it might warrant removal.
- Also, the criticisms section is simply too long in the context of an article that is woefully inadequate in addressing the Black Power phenomenon. The overall article should have much more detail. For example, it should certainly address international manifestations of Black Power instead of confining discussion solely to the U.S. Also an enormous number of Black Power groups in the U.S. are not discussed, and the whole "cultural" side to Black Power (things like Afros and dashikis in the popular imaginination) is completely ignored. In the future when I have more time I might try to work on broadening the scope of this article, and in the meantime hopefully the criticisms section can be edited down and/or sourced. Wikipedia needs to do the highly complex phenomenon known as Black Power much greater justice than this article currently does.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 21:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
There is a discontinuity in this section. Here is how the article currently is: "Bayard Rustin, an elder statesman of the Civil Rights Movement, was a harsh critic of Black Power in its earliest days. Writing in 1966, shortly after the March Against Fear, Randolph said that Black Power. . . ." It talks about Rustin's criticisms, but then mentions criticisms coming from Randolph (A. Philip?). Could this be corrected please? (emphasis added)Jsonitsac 02:56, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for pointing that out, it was probably my mistake but I fixed it.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 11:16, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
I changed the link in the Criticisims section to one from an article written by Rustin published on PBS. I'm certain it is a far more neutral source than marxists.org. CJ 23:32, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks, I think that takes care of it.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 23:55, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
I added the neutral point of view banner because this article clearly needs some work on pov. White Power and Black Power are equally disgusting and need to be condemned—"Black Power" doesn't deserve a sugar coated version with a critisisms section, compare to White Power with nothing positive said about it. BMWman 03:27, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
- This is ridiculous. There is a big difference between calling for the gaining of some power by an oppressed group and calling for the preservation of the power of the oppressor. - Jmabel | Talk 19:25, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
- I wholeheartedly agree with the previous poster and think if anything this article is too POV against Black Power. Black Power and White Power are absolutely, positively not "equally disgusting" and are utterly different phenomena as anyone with a knowledge of the history of these movements would know. Certainly there are certain Black Power groups that are extremely racist, but at the heyday of Black Power (and the whole phenomenon is more important historically--not now) most African Americans who embraced the Black Power concept were not racist (I don't know of any White Power ideologues of whom one could say this). It should be remembered that when Stokely Carmichael shouted out "Black Power" at the Meredith March in 1966 the ink had barely dried on the Voting Rights Act. African Americans had been systematically prevented from achieving political or economic power, and this was in large part what the movement was about. It was also about reclaiming aspects of their African heritage that many blacks in the U.S. had grown ashamed of over the course of many generations of slavery and Jim Crow. Any sort of facile equation between Black Power and White Power (and one other key point of differentiation--for the most part these movements are at opposite ends of the political spectrum) is something we should avoid at this article of anywhere else on Wikipedia.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 21:15, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
The only difference is the initial situation. Black and white power groups approach the issue from different positions, but the aim is the same namely a position of racial power, racial separatism and radical nationalism instead of anti-racist racial equality. This is not the Civil Rights movement article, so stop treating it as such. 18.104.22.168 18:51, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
- Sorry, but you're just wrong about that. There are much greater differences than the "initial situation." Just because "Black Power" and "White Power" sound similar does not mean they are. They are discrete phenomena. Are there "black power" groups that are black supremacist? Absolutely, and they should be discussed. Then there are other groups like the Black Panthers which, according to the wikipedia entry on that group, "condemned black nationalism as 'black racism'" (see the article intro) and worked with whites. My point is that "black power" groups were and are a diverse bunch, but many more than you might think were quite committed to racial equality. In order for equality to happen though, the status of African Americans needed to be elevated.
- I have literally no idea what you mean by "This is not the Civil Rights movement article, so stop treating it as such," but increasingly historians view the sharp line between "civil rights" and "black power" as an artificial one. Many civil rights activists embraced the black power concept, and proto-black power organizations were around by the late 1950s and early 1960s (i.e. during the "Civil Rights Era"). The black power phenomenon is taken quite seriously by scholars and is very much viewed as one which is not even remotely equatable to white power. This article should reflect the latest scholarship, not the assumptions of some editors that white and black power are equally bad.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 19:07, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
- Clearly Bigtime has a bias point of view when it comes to this item. You need to stop changing the article to make black power all rosey and nice. And yes, black power is equally as bad as white power when used in various ways. Get a grip on reality.
- I don't have a bias at all on this matter, unless desire for accuracy is a bias. Have you ever read a book, or even an article, on the history of the Black Power movement? I think if you would you would see that "black power" and "black supremacy" are not the same thing. You keep editing the article to suggest that they are the same. The reason I revert you is because you are completely wrong about this. If you cannot immediately provide evidence for your argument that "Black power describes an ideology held by black supremacists" then I would ask you to cease from changing the article in that fashion. If you want to keep changing it, please provide some justification for your edit here. Thank you.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 06:24, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
- Black power has been used numerous times throughout history to further black supremacy. In these cases, it's a belief system that brings forward the idea that blacks should have power over others or more power than others. You are the one that is totally incorrect and should pick up a book that teaches real history instead of only reading about black power as it was used in ways you want to portray.
- Well I'm glad you're willing to discuss it. You're right, black power has sometimes served black supremacist goals that wants to empower blacks over others. I agree with you. My only point is that this is not always the case. On a note I just left on your talk page I gave the example of the Black Panthers--clearly a black power group but one that worked with whites. Many manifestations of black power were cultural (music, dress, hairstyle, language, etc.) and had little or nothing to do with political power. Saying "all black power figures are racist" makes about as much sense as saying "all Republicans are racist." Some black power folks are/were racist, as are some Republicans (and some Democrats) and that should be pointed out, but changing it to "all" is just incorrect. That black supremacy sometimes stemmed from black power is pointed out at the end of the intro, thus your sentence is not necessary and quite inaccurate. Incidentally I've read hundreds of books about American history from all points of view--it's what I study. Again, have you ever read anything about Black Power? If not, where are you getting your information about it? I await your reply.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 06:48, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
- The problem in my view is that there is no mention of racism or black supremacy in relation to black power throughout the entire article. In order to show a legitimate view of this item, it needs to be pointed out in the first paragraph that it is used in some cases as an ideology and slogan of black supremacists; this is an important part of the term. Even the final paragraph in the intro doesn't show any harshness towards black power in that context. It falls far short of linking the two items together as they have been throughout history; it's not just an offshoot, they have been interrelated. So if someone wants to reword my edit somewhat (such as making it not point to every case), they can, but don't remove it and make the article sugarcoated.
- And yes, I have read a fair amount about black power during my anti-terrorism research. Unfortunately, these courses have major focus on the negative aspects of black power and those who have used it in bad ways (NOI, Black Panther Party, etc.), which is why I feel this article is so off. When I read through it, all I saw was a sugar coated version of black power that doesn't provide the harsh reality. I know it's a tough subject for many, but this is reality and we can't just write it out of history and encyclopedias.
- What I would encourage you to do then, is add more sourced material on black supremacist versions of black power to the article itself. The end of the intro clearly states that black supremacy is an offshoot of black power, so I don't agree with you that the intro sugarcoats anything (I don't understand the distinction between "offshoot" and "interrelated"--clearly if one thing is an offshoot of another they are related). I don't think it's a matter of re-wording your edit, it's that your edit is unnecessary since we already mention black supremacy in the intro (and of course it does not "show harshness," wikipedia has to be NPOV but by mentioning black supremacy and providing a link to it readers can draw their own (harsh) conclusions.
- Again, I agree there should be more about black supremacy in the body, but this article is incredibly, incredibly weak as a whole and there's a lot that needs to be added. It does not talk about Malcolm X, the Black Panthers, US Organization, Amiri Baraka (to name just a few) and it does not talk about Black Supremacist groups like the New Black Panthers (they are mentioned, but we should have more). This article needs a lot of work and you are only mentioning one thing that needs to be worked on. Go ahead and work on it--add more to the body. But your intro sentence simply does not work in my opinion. The sentence "the movement emphasized racial pride and the creation of black political and cultural institutions to nurture and promote black collective interests, advance black values, and secure black autonomy" is a much better general description (though even that could use some work). The phrase "It is also considered an ideology and political slogan describing the views of black supremacists" just does not belong in the second sentence of the intro and you have not provided any convincing evidence for why it should be there.
- In the middle of writing this you added a paragraph about what you have read about Black Power. A good, general history published last year that I'd recommend is Peniel Joseph's Waiting 'Til the Midnight Hour. It's sympathetic to the movement, but fairly balanced. If you read about black power in the context of anti-terrorism studies, you're obviously going to get a certain point of view.
- Also please sign your talk page posts, there's a button for a signature at the top of the edit box that makes two dashes (-) and four of these (~) appear at the end of your note and which leaves your signature.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 07:24, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
I've reverted the phrase "It is also considered an ideology and political slogan describing the views of black supremacists" for a third and final time for now (I won't violate WP:3RR, and regret that I had to revert this many times as is). As described above, I hope changes are made to the article itself, rather than the intro sentences, which describe the black supremacist aspects of black power movements. Black supremacy should not be emphasized at the outset--we have a whole article on that and Black Power is a broader phenomenon.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 09:32, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Black People Are Awsome!!!
Yeah, I found this at the beginning of the background section. I'll remove this small tidbit of vandalism but there needs to be someone that shoud take better care of the article. 18.104.22.168 20:26, 19 March 2007 (UTC)Papa Mama
The term-s introduction into public discourse[edit]
I don't have time to enter it now, but it strikes me that an encyclopedia discussion of black power ought to have a fuller account of the terms introduction into public discourse. A good source for this is the book Local People by John Dittmer. Another good source, tho one with a POV that clearly disagrees with the later usages of the term is John Lewis' auto biography Walking With The Wind. Even tho Lewis was pushed out of SNCC by Black Power advocates, his discussion of the appeal, uses, and ambiguity of the term is very evenhanded. Both of these books trace the terms popularity to a speech given by Stokely Carmichael (later Kwame Ture) in Greenwood Mississippi after his arrest. As here, both also credit Willie Ricks with bringing the term into SNCC, but it's obvious that the media use of the term came from Carmichael/Ture's widely reported remarks. Anyway, one way to get around the POV issues that seem to plague this article might be to more fully account for its origin and how its (sometimes contradictory) meanings and applications have come into being. 188.8.131.52 02:31, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
- Good stuff, should be added. If anyone has those books, please do add this, with appropriately specific citations. - Jmabel | Talk 18:22, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
- Unfortunately I'm too busy in the next month or two to do any serious work on this article (I would want to do it thoroughly and it would take me a long time), but I have a large number of sources (Dittmer's book but others as well which are even more focused on Black Power--Peniel Joseph's recently released Waiting 'Til the Midnight Hour (2006) will probably be the standard overview for a few years to come if anyone wants to check it out) and will hopefully work on adding a great deal on the history of Black Power in the future. Let me also suggest some groups and individuals which are not discussed in the article but which absolutely should be: United Slaves (better known as the US organization), Ron Karenga, the Black Arts Movement, Amiri Baraka, the Black Panther Party, Reverend Albert Cleage, and Malcolm X (whose name inexplicably does not even appear in the article, though he was perhaps the single most influential figure among Black Power activists). There should also be much more elaboration on proto-Black Power figures and groups like Robert F. Williams and the Deacons for Defense. As I said I'll try to work on this in the near future but hopefully others can start including some additional information along these lines.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 21:30, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Clean- up[edit]
nada was here lmaooo NPOV issues here, White power and Black power are the same for the simple reason that there's places in the world where blacks and Whites are in the same, or similar situations. Zimbabwe? A bit of White Power would go a long way there, if blacks are being oppressed they should fight against it, if Whites are then they should too, so in principle it's the same ethos (to strike against wrongs commited against their people.
18.104.22.168 10:17, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
- There aren't many places in the world like that, and I doubt "White Power" would have much positive effect in Zimbabwe (whites ran the place up until 1980 and things were not so great then either. Mugabe's terribleness doesn't necessarily have anything to do with "Black Power"--he's just terrible in general). The "ethos" of white power and black power are usually not the same. White Power groups generally want to restore a system of white dominance, whereas most Black Power groups (particularly in the 1960s and 1970s) simply wanted blacks to have more economic and political power or, as some groups argued, to be completely separate from whites because white racism seemed so intractable at that time. Some Black Power groups were (or are) black supremacist, but many were not.
- This article does need a lot of work, but changing it to say that "White power and Black power are the same" would be a terrible idea because this is simply incorrect. The issue has already been commented upon at length on this page.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 10:41, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Well maybe White power organisations just want a little more 'economic security' for their people and as for seperation, sounds good to me, so let me get this straight, it's fine for blacks to have seperation of the races on their terms but oh no if White people do it, SHOCK, HORROR it's the evil Apartheid, boo hoo.
126.96.36.199 20:22, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
- Many black power groups did not want separation of the races--that's why the phenomenon is complicated. And, yes, hard as it may be for you to believe, there is a huge difference between black separatism and white separatism. You might want to review the Brown v. Board of Education decision of 1954 which argued that "separate but equal" was extremely problematic because in a society dominated by whites, whites-only facilities would always be superior to blacks-only facilities (I would also recommend reading the article on apartheid or specific events like the Sharpeville massacre--it's not good to be so flip about using the apartheid term).
- It's the power differential between whites and blacks which distinguishes black separatism and white separatism (and black power and white power) and this is part of why the Black Power movement was devoted to empowering African Americans in a variety of ways. I hope you change your attitude about separation of the races at some point. These days most whites (and African-Americans) feel we should all be part of the same society.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 20:48, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
- Agreed, the article should reflect the historical motivations and varying viewpoints regarding the Black power movement. Not just a single modern perspective.CJ 01:28, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
For the umpteenth time, black supremacy does not need to be mentioned that early in the lead. It is mentioned, with appropriate weight in the last sentence of the lead. CJ 14:45, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
"Big Five civil rights organizations" reference[edit]
This article contains a reference to the "Big Five civil rights organizations." There's a link to Big Five in the text, but that's just a disambiguation page. Would someone please explain which ones the Big Five are and improve the link (and perhaps create an article on them)? Bry9000 (talk) 19:23, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
- Thanks for pointing that out. The reference is to the "Big Five" organizations that led the Civil Rights Movement: the NAACP, the Urban League, the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, the Congress on Racial Equality, and the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. Originally on the Big Five disambiguation page these groups were mentioned, but an editor (probably rightfully so) drastically cut that page down. I'll try to fix this with a footnote listing out the groups.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 19:32, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
How come the white power page has the word racist in the first sentence, whereas this article barely mentions it into the third or fourth paragraph, and then it still relates to white people being racist! Black people can be racist too, remember the Jena 6? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 12:34, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Let's not confuse Black Power and White Power people. Black Power is mostly rhetoric to inspire people to overcome oppression. White Power has been known to partake in acts that kill people. HUGE difference. The Black Panthers were NOT a terrorist organization killing innocent people; the KKK, however, was. There lies the difference.Egoode2 (talk) 04:47, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
- "Black Power" is racist. Black Power is a black nationalist political slogan, and a name for the associated ideology. Much like the "White Power" propagandists.
- Sorry.
- Anyways ... the Black Panthers "from the beginning [...] Party's focus on militancy came with a reputation for violence." "Black Liberation Army had previously existed as an underground paramilitary wing of the Party". It's mainly two sides of the same coin. J. D. Redding 15:58, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
agreed. Egoode2.
also the jena 6 isn't an example of blacks acting in a "racist" way. tycho garen (talk) 15:39, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
Jena Six is the name given to a group of six black teenagers who have been charged with the beating of Justin Barker, a white student ... someone hit Barker from behind, knocking him out, and then others began to kick and stomp him. ... premeditated ambush and attack by six students against one ... attacked was beaten and kicked into a state of bloody unconsciousness. You make up your own mind, J. D. Redding 16:13, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
Black power is used as rethoric as regimes such as zimbabwe for genocide and deportation , it's only defence is that ludicrious thought that it is not politically current for racism to be an abstract notion(Certain groups I don't want to mention are always "Racist" and others are always the victim , doesn't matter if they are in the middle of a genocide) in a nutshell the article has severe problems it's going to take more effort to fix it than just writing the additional infornmation , but keeping it as well. 18.104.22.168 (talk) 12:21, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
wait what?[edit]
So its ok to be proud of Being African but not ok to be proud to be European? There are just as many rascist black people as there are white rascists. Im from Miami and I have very light skinned Ive been called whitey,nazi,white meat for years so dont assume that there are no black rascists. And the white pride being linked to the kkk and stuff like that well that is true sometimes white pride is jumbled into that stuff. HOWEVER The black panthers do the exact same thing--Lord Haw Haw29 (talk) 00:42, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
Pure bullshit, this page has an NPOV and seems to be edited by mostly white apolegetics and blacks trying to push a POV, black power and white power are BOTH racist terms, and the disparities in this page indicate extreme hypocrisy. Re-adding the tag.126.96.36.199 (talk) 05:26, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Let me put it this way. Black power is about taking a stand against the white supremacy in the same way that many white Americans reacted to the very peaceful protests of the Civil Rights movement of the 1960's. DO NOT try to pull this out of context, the African Americans tried for years to peacefully demand rights,the Mongomery bus boycott, the March on Washington, sit-ins, tryng to go to college! And do you know how these protests were met? With firefighting hoses, able to pull the bark off trees and bricks from buildings 100 feet away, aimed at black children. Lynchings, shootings, beatings. Slow to no movement in federal enforcement. So it is okay for what the White Supremists did, but not for the Blacks to fight back? Black Power wasn't about gaining the upperhand, it was a youth culture movement about being able to stand up, and to have the power to stay standing strong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 23:11, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
By that reasoning, every Jew and Polish citizen should have the right to murder Germans ... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 05:27, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
Black is beautiful/ugly[edit]
I just changed this sentence: "Black is beautiful is a cultural movement in the United States of America beginning in the 1960s that aims to dispel the widespread notion that black people's natural features such as skin color, facial features and hair are inherently ugly." I removed the word "widespread", rendering it "...that aims to dispel the notion that black people's natural features..."
To be clear, I'm not saying that the implied claim is false. But I believe its wording is awkward and should be avoided. It's put much better later on in the same paragraph: "The prevailing idea in American culture was that black features were less attractive or desirable than white features." --MQDuck 00:47, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
"African American people throughout the world"[edit]
In the lede: "African American people throughout the world, primarily those in the United States". What on earth is this supposed to mean? The only "African American people" outside the United States are the handful of emigrants. Shouldn't this be "People of black African descent throughout the world, primarily those in the United States"? - Jmabel | Talk 18:53, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
With reference to Bobby Seale: "He realized, rightly so". Even "He realized" is POV (since you can't "realize" something that isn't true). "Rightly so" is an endorsement in the narrative voice. Now, I happen to agree with Seale on this, but it isn't Wikipedia style. We should find a different way to word this. - Jmabel | Talk 19:11, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
We have separate sections for "Black is Beautiful" and the "Black Arts Movement", but we also discuss both in the sections "Impact on African American Identity" and "Impact on Arts and Culture". We should go one way or the other. I think the right way is to place the "Black is Beautiful" section within "Impact on African American Identity" and the "Black Arts Movement" within "Impact on Arts and Culture", then reorganize the material accordingly. Does anyone disagree?
Also, (1) the lede is overlong and (2) the Bayard Rustin material can probably be better integrated (sorry) into the article than in a separate "criticism" section. - Jmabel | Talk 19:41, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
Remaining POV issues?[edit]
This has had a POV tag for 10 months. Would someone please make a list of what they believe are the issues so that we can work toward consensus? If no one does this in the next 2 weeks or so, I will simply remove the tag, since it related to a considerably different state of the article. - Jmabel | Talk 01:58, 15 July 2009 (UTC) if you will remove the tag you are violating wp:soap , the rethoric is used today as a justification for violence by groups or by governments around the world , that is for starters. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 12:23, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
Lacking criticism[edit]
Where is the criticism of "black power" as is so prevalent with the "white power" article. Seperate but equal articles I say! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 18:43, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Agreed. There seems to be double standards on wikipedia regarding white power and [insert non white race] power. I call the big one bitey (talk) 08:57, 13 June 2014 (UTC)
Why is this small article POV?[edit]
Eh, I don't get it. It seems really bland, in fact. I see a lot of weird posts in the talk page, though.--126.96.36.199 (talk) 15:39, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV[edit]
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
- This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:
- There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
- It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
- In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.
- This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 00:40, 21 June 2013 (UTC)


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Final Summer Characters- Arin by CosmicMarsupialWatch
©2014-2016 CosmicMarsupial
And now for a basic character teaser of sorts~
recycled terren recolor Arin here serves as the "main" protagonist, for all intensive purposes.
Arin and pals enter in a midsummer MMORPG tournament together, but it's pretty easy to say that shit quickly hits the fan. He's a problem solver at heart, although he's prone to priding or hailing his own intelligence in certain matters. This may cause him to come off as vain or overbearing at times, but he truly cares about the safety and wellbeing of his friends, devoting much of his time to talking out their troubles with them; something that in turn helps him gloss over his own issues.
His in-game counterpart is Dusty, an android marsupial. Despite his physique his abilities are aimed more towards puzzle-solving, rendering Arin a somewhat impotent group leader when it comes to combat. Though Dusty has exhibited significantly increased- if not involuntary- fighting capabilities in pinch situations. It's almost as if he has a mind of his own...
Stoked to introduce these two! Expect a few more characters in the near future. B^)
(coughs hey check out this cool new Twitter thing I've got running now. Snazzy. Back I go into the crevice in the wall.)
great...more furries on the internet
lol I kid.
this looks badass!
>attempts to dodge the "furry" categorization by making Dusty a videogame character
hehe, thank you! :'D
Neat! c: Something to look forward to~
Looks sick! Looking forward to seeing more characters :>
Im so stoked for this man~
Cosmic you sly dog!
Looks super neat, the whole concept of it. Final Summer has a certain...finality to it. I love Dusty's "confidently Bashful" look. Stellar, really!
Can't wait man.
Looks super neat, the whole concept of it. Final Summer has a certain...finality to it. I love Dusty's "confidently Bashful" look. Stellar, really!
Can't wait man.
Aw dude! Glad you're excited, haha. Hoping for a February launchtime, so I'll be sure to deliver the goods soon!
I am so excited to see what you have in store for us! Keep up the great work! I know you'll do amazing with the new comic!
Oh gosh, I'll try to do you proud, haha! Thanks so much for your support!! C':
Qweeeee can't wait~
Arin and Dusty look so cool omg owo
ooooh, dusty sure looks familiar :3c
ahhh though they look fantastic and i can't wait eeeee
Thanks Dom! Glad you think so! :'D
Here's to a February release date~
Ooooh a February Release Date would be lovely. No better way to kick off the new year then to get a New, badass comic a month into it
Do eeeet
Mucho neato~
Awwww yiss. I can't wait!
You gonna use that goat from the earlier picture you made? Cause more series need a drill wielding goat.
So I was about to sneeze, then I saw this and it went away
HHHHH This looks so good, Cosmi-kuuuuun. ;w; Your style
is absolutely awesome and so distinct. The colors are soft
and so nicely done. And those expressions/poses hkalsdhfalsd
Take me, Cosmi-kun-chan-san-sama-senpai. Teach me your wayyyss.
SOOOB my gosh, thank you so much babe! Aah but no your art looks super lovely as well and I'm hella excited for Undersong! <3 <3 ;u;
nice nice nice character designs \*w*/
i cant wait for it to staaarrtt~
i cant wait for it to staaarrtt~
Wow, I remember the first time you drew Dusty! I was excited then and I'm even more excited now!
Good luck with Final Summer, Cos!
(forgive me for 2014 I'm trying to add comments to things I'm not that good)
(forgive me for 2014 I'm trying to add comments to things I'm not that good)
Aw dude Teddi! Thanks mate, it means a lot! (Jeez that feels like a long ass time ago though, haha...)


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Cassini Raw Images: SATURN: W00078051.jpg
|Full-Res: W00078051.jpg
W00078051.jpg was taken on December 10, 2012 and received on Earth December 11, 2012. The camera was pointing toward SATURN at approximately 269,254 miles (433,323 kilometers) away, and the image was taken using the CB2 and CL2 filters. This image has not been validated or calibrated. A validated/calibrated image will be archived with the NASA Planetary Data System in 2013.
For more information on raw images check out our frequently asked questions section.
Image Credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/Space Science Institute


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OpenCongress Blog
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A Better Farm BillSeptember 27, 2007 - by Donny Shaw
The farm bill that the House of Representatives passed in July was not all that it was cracked up to be. Many were hoping that the newly-elected Democrats would pass a better farm bill that attacked the policies that have lead to widespread obesity and poor health in America. But instead of gutting the central, most egregious provisions of the bill, they left them untouched and did some minor tweaking around the edges. Leading House Democrats insisted on calling their bill "reform."Read Full Article
The Pawn and the PuppetmasterSeptember 26, 2007 - by Donny Shaw
After months of wondering what Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell's been hiding, the mystery was finally revealed on Monday. Senator John Ensign (R-NV) came forward and identified himself as the senator who's been anonymously blocking passage of S.223 under McConnell's asylum. Or so it seemed. The Sunlight Foundation did some more digging and discovered that Ensign is actually just the scapegoat and that the senator Mitch McConnell's really been hiding isRead Full Article
The Untouchable SCHIP VetoSeptember 26, 2007 - by Donny Shaw
Looks like the President will have no problem sinking Congress' SCHIP. The House was hoping to pass a bill to reauthorize the State Children's Health Insurance Program -- or SCHIP -- with enough votes to override the veto that President Bush has threatened. They didn't. It passed the House on Tuesday night with a strong, bi-partisan vote of 265-159, but that's still about 25 votes short of the amount needed to reverse a veto.Read Full Article
Prelude to a War With IranSeptember 25, 2007 - by Donny Shaw
In a matter of hours, the Senate is expected to vote on an amendment co-auhored by Jon Kyl (R-AZ) and Joe Lieberman (I-CT) that, if passed, would be Congress' first significant act towards authorizing the use of military force against Iran. It is a non-binding "sense of the Senate" amendment, but it would officially put the Senate on record in support of using military force in order to curb Iran's destabilizing influence in Iraq.Read Full Article
Irresponsible Overspending or Hypocritical Budget Cuts?September 24, 2007 - by Donny Shaw
You may have noticed Monday's dustup between Congress and the Administration in which President Bush called on Congress to be clean and Congressman David Obey (D-WI) called the President a rooster. Scathing remarks, but they were only meant metaphorically. As the week winds down and the October 1st budget deadline approaches and passes, however, things will get more serious and we can expect to hear some real nasty, non-metaphorical slander tossed around Washington. Prepare yourself to hear such vileness as "hypocrite" and -- gasp -- "fiscally irresponsible."Read Full Article
Watch the EarmarkersSeptember 24, 2007 - by Donny Shaw
Congress passed new rules to make earmarking more transparent, now it's our turn to hold them accountable. Today, Taxpayers for Common Sense and the Sunlight Foundation launched EarmarkWatch.org, a new site that encourages distributive research and makes earmark reviewing easy.Read Full Article
No Progress for Anti-War SenatorsSeptember 21, 2007 - by Donny Shaw
It's been a bad week for legislators who oppose the war in Iraq. The Senate spent the entire week on the Department of Defense Authorization Act, a bill that's been considered Congress's best bet for changing the course of the war. But even though several Iraq-related amendments found the support of the majority of the Senate, none were able to clear the 60-vote procedural barrier that was used to keep them from coming to a regular vote.Read Full Article
Mini AmnestySeptember 20, 2007 - by Donny Shaw
Conciliation for big legislative failures often comes as passage of a miniaturized version of the proposal that helps only the most inculpable demographic: the children. So far in the 110th Congress, the major legislative flop has been comprehensive immigration reform. And, appropriately, its miniaturized, child-specific counterpart, the DREAM Act, is ready to be voted on any day now.Read Full Article
Bleak Prospects for Children's Health BillSeptember 19, 2007 - by Donny Shaw
A few weeks ago it seemed possible that a bill to reauthorize the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) would be the impetus for the first veto override of George Bush's presidency. But, under pressure from the Tobacco and Health Insurance industries, many lawmakers have backed away from crucial provisions of the bill, forcing congressional negotiators to settle on a version of it that lawmakers are much less excited about.Read Full Article
Let Congress Know You Are WatchingSeptember 18, 2007 - by Donny Shaw
We are really excited to be releasing our latest widget today. Our new "Congress, I'm Watching" widget lets you announce your support or opposition of legislation, while also sharing links to clear, up-to-date information that encourages others to get involved themselves.Read Full Article
An Iraq Proposal that Just Might Pass the SenateSeptember 16, 2007 - by Donny Shaw
We've heard recently from the GAO, the military, and the White House. This week we'll hear from Congress on how to move forward in Iraq. Today, the Senate will once again take up debate of the Department of Defense Authorization bill that they pulled from the table in July after failing to break a Republican filibuster in an all-night session.Read Full Article
Hooray!September 14, 2007 - by Donny Shaw
In a major victory for all, President Bush today quietly signed into law S.1, the Honest Leadership and Open Government Act of 2007. While this bill is by no means a cure-all for the corruption and secrecy that has plagued Congress in recent years, It is a huge first step in the right direction. It will send an immediate jolt to both lobbyists and lawmakers in the Senate, whose cozy relationships -- the gifts, the trips, the marital job market -- which will, in many ways, become illegal tomorrow.Read Full Article
Surging BackSeptember 13, 2007 - by Donny Shaw
In politics, money often comes with an implicit message. A new report out today from the Center of Responsive Politics indicates that members of the military, a traditionally Republican group, seem to be contributing to congressional and presidential campaigns in a pattern that makes their message very clear.Read Full Article
Has the Energy Bill Lost its Steam?September 12, 2007 - by Donny Shaw
Remember the comprehensive energy bills that the House and Senate passed earlier this summer? Well, that may have been the last we'll see of them for a while. The bills are waiting to be reconciled by a conference committee, but all odds are stacked against that actually happening.Read Full Article
All This Over That?September 12, 2007 - by Donny Shaw
In the budget clash that is shaping up, the stakes are high, but the amount of money involved is almost negligible. President Bush has threatened to veto 9 of Congress's 12 government funding bills for fiscal year '08 because, he says, they contain "irresponsible and excessive level of spending." But, when you look at the numbers, Congress's budget differs from Bush's request by such a small amount that it seems a ludicrous reason to ramp up a political standoff, especially when it puts all of America at risk of a total government shutdown.Read Full Article


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Show Season 2015 -2016
Welcome to the GSDCP
The GSDCP encourages fellowship and strives to assist in the education of its members, and the public, to a better understanding of the breed, responsible breeding practices, and responsible dog ownership.
The purpose of this website is to provide information and general understanding of the breed to the public and provide online services and facilities to our members. We trust you will find the information contained on this site both interesting and informative.
The GSDCP and the WUSV
Our President Mr. Imran Husain was re-elected to the WUSV Board of Directors on September 8, 2014, at the WUSV General Assembly in Nürnberg! It is through sheer hard work, dedication and great passion for the German Shepherd Dog, that he continues to do a tremendous job at representing Pakistan and the GSDCP, internationally!
The WUSV Board of Directors 2014 – 2018
President – Professor Dr. Heinrich Meßler (Germany)
Vice President – Herr Wolfgang Tauber (Austria)
Member – Mr. Imran Husain (Pakistan)
Member – Mr. Francis Reuter (France)
Notice – Termination of Membership
"Resolution by Circulation of the Managing Committee GSDCP
Resolution: 2015-011
Dated: August 7, 2015
It has come to the knowledge of the members of the Managing Committee that Mr. Saad Saleem (Membership No. T-1049) along with 4 other members, namely Mr. Anwar Husain (Membership No. P-003), Mr. Faisal Khan (Membership No. P-050), Mr. Ammad Zafar Cheema (Membership No. T-1054) and Mr. Haroon Sadiq (Membership No. T-1048) have formed a parallel organization by the same name and have acquired a license under section 42 of the Companies Ordinance 1984.
In consideration of the above it is resolved that the membership of the said five be terminated with immediate effect for having acted against the interest of the club.
It is further resolved that all benefits and services that they have availed, including registrations, pedigrees, breed surveys and awards be – and are – hereby withdrawn/revoked."


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About the Author
Dinangkur Kundu is currently working as IT Support Analyst at Moriah College in Sydney, Australia, also running a local business directory for Bangladeshi people and developing web sites using concrete5 CMS in his free time. Dinangkur started his career as a Visual Basic programmer for DEN - a hospital management system development company. Later, he moved to web programming and spent the majority of his career in the web arena, using open source technologies, which are the driving point of his technological advances. He worked as a LAMP developer for Quantumcloud - building and implementing an e-commerce solution, content management system, helpdesk and service-oriented application; as Chief Technical Officer he implemented and managed the Linux based internet gateway, mail, backup, revision control and over all security. On the rare occasion he's away from his computer, you can find him reading books in String theory and gaze on math books. He dedicates this book to his parents - Dipty Rani Kundu and Ranjit Kumar Kundu, most extraordinary and beloved ones in his life; because of their love and blessing he is here and continuing his journey. He also thanks his sweet wife Suravi Sarkar for her faithful support in writing this book. He specially thanks his younger brother Shanku, who took care of his Mum and Dad in his absence, and pushed him to reach his goal. He also wants to thank Rashmi Phadnis at Packt Publishing for being so patient with him. S. M. Ibrahim Lavlu is a Linux wizard who has dedicated most of the time his for Linux and open source. All time he is busy with his technical world. He is also expert in PHP. Now working as a software engineer and deployment engineer at somewhere in... net ltd. He maintains the world's largest Bangla blog community (www.somewhereinblog.net) and also the busiest site of Bangladesh. In his free time; Lavlu shares his knowledge on www.lavluda.com among his many tutorials and technical documents. For successfully completing this book; all credit goes to my wife Tania Sabnam (www.tsabnam.com). And special thanks to cacti developer team for their great support.


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Appointments & Offices
Check insurance plans, locations and make an appointment
Is Mary Miesem accepting new patients?
If you are a new patient, please check with Mary Miesem before scheduling an appointment.
Office Locations
- Presbyterian Behavioral Medcn
- 1325 Wyoming Blvd NE
- Albuquerque, NM 87112
- (505) 291-5300 (Office)


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Titans add Steve Hoffman to coaching staff
Updated: February 18, 2013, 3:54 PM ETAssociated Press
NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- The Tennessee Titans have hired Steve Hoffman as an assistant special teams coach and have promoted Arthur Smith to offensive line/tight ends assistant.
Hoffman spent last season as the Oakland Raiders' special teams coordinator. He also has worked with the Dallas Cowboys (1989-2004), Atlanta Falcons (2006), Miami Dolphins (2007-08) and Kansas City Chiefs (2009-11). The Titans announced his hiring Monday afternoon.
Smith has two years of experience on the Titans' ...
Read full story
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- McShay: Mariota moves up in Mock Draft 4.0
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Mon, 21 April 2008 at 6:09 am
Heidi Klum and Her Children Gleeful at The Grove
Heidi Klum and her family spend the day at the Grove, in West Hollywood on Sunday.
Heidi's children Leni, 3 1/2, Henry, 2 1/2, and Johan, 16 months were all having fun playing with each other and with other friends.
Last week, Heidi attended the Us Weekly Hot Hollywood Hottest Style Makers.
FYI: Heidi is using her Maclaren stroller.
25+ more pics inside of Heidi and her children at grove…
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Photos: WENN Posted to: Celebrity Babies, Heidi Klum, Henry Samuel, Johan Samuel, Leni Briatore


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5 Reviews
This is a great tasting sandwich. I used Cheddar,as the fridge was devoid of blue cheese,but I'm looking forward to trying it with it. A really filling and delicious sandwich-thanks Shelby Jo!
I love Cordon Blue and this was great. I don't have a panini maker but now I have a reason to get one. I used a small cast iron skillet to weigh it down.
YuMmY!! What a great sandwich. I made exactly as stated. I dont have a panini press so I used my George Forman grill and also our sandwhich maker to make these both worked great. Thanks for posting! Made for 123 Hit Wonders!!
This is really yummy and makes a great lunch. I think I would also like to try it with Swiss cheese in place of the blue cheese. Thanks for posting!
Mmmm, what a great sammie! I made my own bread using Italian Garlic and Herb Seasoned Panini - Focaccia Bread (abm) and then layered on the listed ingredients except for the bleu cheese. for which I subbed Swiss and cheddar. Then I used my panini grill press for a hearty, delicious and quick meal! Thanks Shelby Jo!


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Approved Employer
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I registered with a number of agencies prior to registering with EastCoast and none of them have personally responded, I am impressed with the professionalism and responsiveness shown by EastCoast.


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Best tech bargains of the week: September 18
Pick up some great tech gear at bargain basement prices including a full HD camcorder, a wireless multifunction printer and a ultra-slim digital camera!
Pick up some great tech gear at bargain basement prices including a full HD camcorder, a wireless multifunction printer and a ultra-slim digital camera!
Discounted Apple products, cheap colour laser printing and more!
Need to pick up a last minute Father's Day gift? Or just want to splurge on yourself? Check out some of the great deals we've rounded up.
You can probably guess that a digital SLR is going to give you better results than a point and shoot--but you can still get good photos with even a compact camera.
If you aren't lucky enough to have a real Polaroid camera and a stockpile of film, just upload your photos to Rollip.com
Pick up a great Canon digital camera, a cheap-as-chips HD camcorder and more!
Cheap TVs, new GPS devices and bargain Wi-Fi routers
Pick up some great gear for bargain prices
Save 15 per cent off TVs at JB Hi-Fi, buy a cheap small business PC or catch a deal on a budget printer
We'll show you how to pick up a bargain this week, including a great deal on a Nikon camera, a cheap mobile phone plan, a Canon Legria HF20 camcorder at a reduced price and a 46in Samsung LCD television with a free 22in LCD!
Canon's PowerShot D10 can withstand drops from up to 1m and can function in up to 10m of water.
Thanks to the Olympus E-620, taking photos just became a whole lot more fun
The equipment and settings you need to capture nature's own light show.
Nikon's D5000 digital SLR camera is an entry-level model that's designed to be a simple introduction into the world of SLR cameras
We're already a quarter of the way into 2009 and the gadgets are coming thick and fast despite the recession that is gripping many countries.
The latest business news, reviews, features and whitepapers
Visit our shop for the best deals on hot products
Watch our video news and reviews from around the world
Comprehensive buying guides, features, and step-by-step articles
First impression on unpacking the Q702 test unit was the solid feel and clean, minimalist styling.
For work use, Microsoft Word and Excel programs pre-installed on the device are adequate for preparing short documents.
The Fujitsu LifeBook UH574 allowed for great mobility without being obnoxiously heavy or clunky. Its twelve hours of battery life did not disappoint.
The screen was particularly good. It is bright and visible from most angles, however heat is an issue, particularly around the Windows button on the front, and on the back where the battery housing is located.
My first impression after unboxing the Q702 is that it is a nice looking unit. Styling is somewhat minimalist but very effective. The tablet part, once detached, has a nice weight, and no buttons or switches are located in awkward or intrusive positions.


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I have been thinking hard about owning a horse and I then thought about leasing. I just need some info. if any of you lease can you tell me your point of view on it?:???:
I have only leased for three months in the summer. I have done that with two different horses. My experience with it has been pretty ok since I was able to ride everyday if I wanted. Vet and farrier were included, the only other thing I had to do besides ride and groom was to clean the stall. The downside, however, is that other people can still ride the horse. Well...at least that is how it is for my barn. I do know that different barns do different things, so I suppose it all depends on where you plan on leasing. Overall it is a good thing to do before you get your first horse, since it gives you a bit more insight on the care and prices and what not.
yeah that seems pretty ok. you are right that it would give more expirience. did youhave to buy anything or work with the idk, the insurence or anything like that? ok thanks for the info!
We had to sign something that basically said that if we got hurt while on the horse we couldn't sue the owner. I already owned my own tack and grooming supplies, so I was ok there. But the barn that I'm at each horse has their own grooming supplies and bridles and there is a tack room full of saddles to use. So once again, it depends on the barn you plan on leasing at.
ok i have talked to my barn manager and she sayed we wouldnt have to buy all the grooming supplies so thats good. ok thanx!
i have leased for 3 years, on two differnt ponys. Both leases went really well. I was able to use their tack and i get along well with the owners. They were also 1/2 leases but it normally worked out that i could ride more then my 1/2.
It was also nice because when i moved onto the 2nd pony, i could still ride the 1st one - kind of like pay one, and get one for free!!!!!
I've never owned, only leased. I've done it a few different ways. The 1st was just a 1/2 lease at where the owner had her horse kept. I was able to ride a few scheduled days a week, and she loaned me everything she owned for her mare (tack, grooming supplies, etc). I was only responsible for paying a lease fee to her; nothing else. The 2nd mare I leased was at the owner's home, and for a flat monthly fee I could come out and ride whenever I wanted. Again, freedom to use all her equipment, no farrier, vet or any of that. The lease I'm about to get into is unique, in a way. I'm getting to move the gelding to a facility of my choice, I'm covering his board, farrier and wormer, but not vet. She's loaning me tack, but it will very much be like he's my horse. Additionally, I'm also paying a small monthly lease fee to the owner.
Leasing is a really great place to start. I feel like my first two leases weren't great trial runs for eventual ownership, but this one will be.
I'm currently leasing a 4 year old mare. I've never owned a horse, and so far the lease is fantastic. I pay $30 (Australian) a week for her adjistment and use the owners saddle, other than that I have brought my own bridle and saddle blanket as well as halter and lead. She is a great little horse and lots of fun, I am also getting lessons on her off her owner who is a riding instructor. So I'm learning lots too. Theres lots of grass in her paddock so she only needs a biscuit of hay after rides. Leasing is a great way to experience what owning a horse is like, I would recommend it to anyone.:D
I think I would lease more if it wasn't so expensive. At my barn it is around $150-$200 I believe. If you are in 4-H she gives you a discount, but I do know that last year she raised her prices, so who knows how much it is now. That is probably why I only lease in the summer. lol. Plus, she makes us pay a "horse rental" fee if we show anywhere, so it just drains more and more money. I hopefully will be leasing next summer though since it will be my last summer here before college.
How much does everyone else pay for leasing?
Depends on the horse and the situation. For most top show horses, the lease fee will be about 20% of the horse's purchase price per show year. We have several lease horses available at our barn that we charge about $100-200 a month, plus all expenses (board, farrier, etc). Some people are fine with doing a lease with no lease fee, but you'd still be expected to pay for expenses. I have a girl half leasing my pony and she pays $100 a month plus expenses (which does include his insurance) and he is all hers for 3 days a week. She has her own saddle and grooming supplies but I let her use my bridle and boots. I would let leasees borrow some of my tack specific to the horse (if they're responsible) but I rarely allow anyone to borrow my saddle!
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Rockin' Guitar Personalized Banner
Vinyl Banner sizes:
Rock your party with a custom banner!
Our Rockin' Guitar Personalized Vinyl Banners feature a purple rock design.
Personalized Banner features:
- Free personalization!
- Our exclusive customizing tool allows you to move, rotate and size.
- Vinyl banners are weather-resistant!
- Printed on durable 10 ounce white vinyl.
- Includes metal grommets for hanging.
- 7 sizes available (sizes are approximate):
- B1118 - 1 1/2 feet high x 4 1/2 feet wide
- B1124 - 2 feet high x 6 feet wide
- B1130 - 2 1/2 feet high x 6 3/4 feet wide
- B1136 - 3 feet high x 8 3/4 feet wide
- B1148 - 4 feet high x 11 1/2 feet wide
- B1160 - 5 feet high x 15 feet wide
- B1172 - 6 feet high x 16 3/4 feet wide
Attach N' Go Banner features:
- Printed on safe, low-tack vinyl sticker material
- Perfect for anywhere, no cords or tape needed
- 3 sizes available (sizes are approximate):
- B4118 - 1 1/2 feet high x 4 1/2 feet wide
- B4124 - 2 feet high x 6 feet wide
- B4130 - 2 1/2 feet high x 6 3/4 feet wide
- Not recommended for outdoor use or for application on windows.
Banners will be printed exactly as shown with the exception to the white border that will surround your banner's outer edges and is printed with our company logo tagline. Please, take a moment to review your final selections and check your spelling.
We reserve the right to refuse any objectionable material. We will not reproduce materials that are deemed to be offensive or obscene.
Please allow ample time for delivery. Our ship date for this product is noted in your shopping cart. Many items are shipped separately, so please allow extra time for these items to arrive. Shipping charges are based on the value of the merchandise and not the number of shipments. For additional shipping information, please contact our Customer Service Department at (email@example.com or 1-800-314-8794).
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I am a Children's Ministry Director at my church and have bought banners, and many other products from you over the past several years, and have never been disappointed. We use your products for all of my major events, and will continue to do so. I have turned other departments within our church, other ministries and businesses on to your great quality and value. Keep it up!!
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We used this for a work event themed rock n roll- it looked great, it was just what we needed to complete the decorations!
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Q:Is this back ground purple or blue?Asked on 1/3/2011 by Anonymous
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A:The background color is purple.Answered on 1/6/2011 by CSR


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Bottel Miku by Diamond-DropsWatch
©2013-2016 Diamond-Drops
Wow water hair. That would be great way to carry your pet with you. Love the use of dark blue and light blue. Interesting concept.
Haha! This character has a "water hair " version which is called Bottle miku. It was very hard to make the hair at least look like it is water so I am happy to read that you ave liked it! ^^


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Established since 1974, Island Marble Works has been manufacturing granite,
marble table & tops.
We specialise in Italian Design Granite Tables for various shapes and sizes.
We are able to custom design to cater your requirements at factory prices.
We also provide maintenance and repair services for marble and other form of stone sculpted table.
All enquries are welcome. For retail, trade, export or others.


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Archive: October, 2011
Jan Ransom
With the general election just two weeks away, political watchdog group Committee of Seventy is getting the word out to voters about deadlines to apply for, and submit absentee ballots, alternative ballots and emergency absentee ballots.
For more information check out the press release below:
Chris Brennan
City Councilman Brian O'Neill and his Democratic challenger, Bill Rubin, trade shots in a testy debate about the 10th Council district.
City Council is moving forward on legislation to ease the city's business tax structure, with Mayor Nutter's support.
And the Daily News editorial page takes a look at a proposed Neighborhood Improvement District around the Reading Viaduct.
Jan Ransom
A toddler known as Little L vanished after she was taken from the home of a woman who was told she could adopt the child from Linda Ann Weston. Was Little L another victim of Weston? Three decades if hell.
John Baer wants to know why tax dollars are being used for fancy state dinners while so many remain unemployed.
Former 76ers president Pat Croce is a "pirate aficionado," who recently discovered Sir Francis Drake's burnt shipwrecks –solving a 400 year-old mystery.
Chris Brennan
U.S. Rep. Eric Cantor, the Republican majority leader in the U.S. House, canceled his scheduled speech at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School of Business because if was going to be open to the first 300 people who showed up. Given that hundreds of Occupy Philadelphia protesters were planning to march from City Hall to the campus to protest the speech, that could have been lively audience.
"The Office of the Majority Leader was informed last night by Capitol Police that the University of Pennsylvania was unable to ensure that the attendance policy previously agreed to could be met," Cantor spokeswoman Laena Fallon said in an email. "Wharton is a educational leader in innovation and entrepreneurship, and the Majority Leader appreciated the invitation to speak with the students, faculty, alumni, and other members of the UPenn community."
Cantor had expected that his speech, on income disparity in the country, would be open to the media, Wharton students and faculty and guests of the university.
David Gambacorta
The story of Linda Ann Weston -- the brains behind the Tacony dungeon saga -- is actually getting worse, according to Barbara Laker and Wendy Ruderman.
Stu Bykofsky takes a closer look at how the Philadelphia Bar Association rates judicial candidates.
The city curfew bill stalled yesterday. Now OccupyPhilly is against it, too.
Jan Ransom
Councilman Frank Rizzo Jr. has left the Republican Party after he was suddenly booted out of leadership by his GOP colleagues nearly two weeks ago –a move he said was retaliation for voting in favor of a redistricting map that Republican Councilman Brian O'Neill didn't like.
"In Council, I've always been independent but being independent got me into this," said Rizzo, who is now registered as unaffiliated. "I voted for a district that makes sense."
O'Neill did not immediately return calls for comment.
Jan Ransom
Jane McIntosh, daughter of Linda Ann Weston, the alleged mastermind accused of fraud and torturing four mentally disabled adults –was also charged yesterday with kidnapping and conspiracy. Meanwhile, a fifth abuse victim has been rescued.
The Philadelphia Board of Ethics accused the communications director for City Councilwoman Donna Reed Miller of 16 violations of the city-charter ban on using City Hall resources for political campaigns.
Ronnie Polaneczky writes a positive column about the Philadelphia Parking Authority.
Chris Brennan
U.S. Rep. Eric Cantor, the Republican majority leader in the U.S. House, has posted a curious video he calls "Snapshots of a leader" that chronicles an hour of his day this month. What can we tell you about that hour? Cantor meets with a lot of people while staffers take plenty of pictures. "It has to do with all coming together and trying to promote achievement and success for everyone," Cantor says over a snappy guitar track.
Cantor, who will speak tomorrow at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School, is certainly promoting his own success. The video, which can be reached from a YouTube link on Cantor's official Congressional website, is heavy with the message of pulling together and taking advantage of opportunities.
Our first reaction: Is Cantor auditioning for the vice presidential spot on the 2012 ticket? We sure hope he answers that question in his speech tomorrow.


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In Durham, N.C., a leader in the local Democrat Party and her husband are facing multiple charges in what WTVD ABC 11 News called "a satanic ritual that got out of hand." Charges in the case include kidnapping, rape, sexual assault, and assault with a deadly weapon.
Now this is Durham, remember, where approximately one out of every 98 rape cases becomes news and several of those have turned out to be hoaxes. In other words, don't let the suspects be nifonged. Let the criminal justice system work as it should, without pot-banging activists demanding the accused's immediate neutering, Duke professors denouncing America (more), Nancy Grace getting her dander up (more), and all that rot.
That having been said, the report prompts the question of when, exactly, a satanic ritual gets out of hand. Most would probably say something along the lines of "When you called it 'satanic,' see, that's when." But for those who agreed to such a ritual, where would they draw the line?
A look at the allegations is in order at this point. The initial report on WTVD was that "Joy Johnson watched as her husband, Joseph Craig, beat and raped a female victim then kidnapped and beat another male victim with a wooden cane and a cable cord." Craig, 25, has been charged with second-degree rape, second-degree forcible sexual offense, three counts of second-degree kidnapping and two counts of assault with a deadly weapon. His wife, Johnson, 30, faces charges of aiding and abetting. The News & Observer of Raleigh reported that arrest warrants "accuse Johnson of 'instigating and encouraging' her husband as he handcuffed a man and forced him 'into a dog cage, leaving him there for hours, terrorizing him.'"
According to reports, Craig is a dispatcher for a waste disposal service. Johnson was a third vice chairwoman of the Durham County Democratic Party and vice chairwoman of the Young Democrats (she has since resigned).
The first vice chairwoman (when does naming vice chairwomen get out of hand?), Diana Palmer, was later charged with one count of accessory after the fact. Her lawyer asserts that his client had no association with a satanic cult nor had any knowledge of a crime being committed. And this is still Durham.
Bernie Sanders Champions YUGE Profits for U.S. Corporations (But Only in Cahoots with Communists) | Humberto Fontova
Bush mocks Rubio and his fans: Stop whining that it's "unfair" that you're being attacked by another candidate's Super PAC | Allahpundit


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If you don't mind sharing, how much has your payment decreased since refinancing? I'm very curious about how our payment could lower.
Thanks in advance!
You generally find out quickly.
Depending on the refi, if you owe more than your home is worth, there is a penalty of sorts: they won't approve the refi. A new lender generally won't; your existing lender may otr may not approve it.
Reduction of payment will depend on a lot of things -- original interest rate, new rate, if there was PMI, if you're extending or shortening the loan, etc.
"Releasing doves and a sushi station are not basic human rights." -- MollySaysWhat
If you are underwater, you may qualify for the HARP program. My sister did this and it lowered her payments by $500/month, keeping the original length of the loan (25yrs left on a 30yr). We did a traditional refi and went from a 30 yr to 15, which raised our monthly payment by $100. However, we were already paying an additional $300/month, so we were comfortable with that amount.
We started at bankrate.com and did some research on the different companies before choosing one.
Good luck OP...
We tried for a refi, they wanted an appraisel. Not going to happen. So we're screwed. (We have a 6% interest rate, we had a prime-rate ARM, DH switched to a 20-yr when everyone said rates were going to start going up...so it's our own fault.)
We don't qualify for HARP, we don't have FHA so streamlined refi..
Did I mention we have 800+ credit scores (each) and no debt except the house. Doesn't matter. It's all about what the house would sell for vs. what you owe...
So we're just paying it down like mad so we can sell or re-fi....eventually =)
I hope you have better luck than we did!!