text:
New York Color Liquid Eyeliner
413 reviews
61% would repurchase
Package Quality: 3.5
Price: $
Package Quality: 3.5
Price: $
Age: 30-35
Skin: Very Oily, Olive, Warm
Hair: Black, Straight, Fine
Eyes: Brown
I've been on a liquid liner kick and when I first bought it I hated it because I felt it wasn't as good as my L'Oreal Lineur Intense, but when I ran out I tried this again and I think it works just as good if not better. I have very oily lids for starters and this does not crease or fade on me with 10 hours and over of wear. The color is very black. The formula is a little wet so you have to give it a few seconds to set. Then only gripe I have with this is the brush, if it was stiff and pointed it would be perfection, but as of now it's the only one I've used the last 3 mos and the formula hasn't dried at all.
Age: 19-24
Skin: Acne-prone, Fair, Not Sure
Hair: Brunette, Other, Other
Eyes: Brown
I really do like this product, it has a nice, dark black color and the brush is precise. I rarely need to apply a second coat with the exception of touch ups. I do find that the formula can crack after awhile, but can be quickly fixed with a touchup. I find no reason to spend $10 or more on a liquid eyeliner when this is more than sufficient.
Age: 18 & Under
Skin: Normal, Fair-Medium, Not Sure
Hair: Brown, Curly, Medium
Eyes: Brown
Maybe I have a different packaging, a newer packaging? Because it's black and has the writing in silver letters. Oh well. I bought this eyeliner after losing my favorite stiletto liquid eyeliner. I bought it black, on a limb. The brush took a while to get used to. This is a very unforgiving brush. One little shake of your hand and you're in a mess. The positive though is that it's somewhat easy to wipe away. I've made a mess of my eyes a few times with this. However, I do have to say that this is a good eyeliner once you get used to it. I can create really nice, bold, defined lines that last the whole day. The color black isn't as black as I would like. All in all, a good eyeliner for the price, but definitely not my favorite. I'd buy again, but there are other liners I'd buy first.
Age: 19-24
Skin: Combination, Fair-Medium, Cool
Hair: Brunette, Other, Other
Eyes: Brown
I love this eyeliner! I keep going to other products to try, but always find myself using this time and time again! I love it, the applicator is fantastic for detailed winged looks and it glides on easily. It's also super pigmented! I love it!
Age: 19-24
Skin: Combination, Fair-Medium, Not Sure
Hair: Black, Other, Other
Eyes: Brown
I love it - for the value this eyeliner rocks. I have oily eyelids and it still stays on pretty well for a whole day (definitely does smudge but not bad for the cost!) Plus I just love the feel of the brush and the control I have using it. I find it really hard to switch between different styles of liquid eyeliners but this one is great!
Age: 18 & Under
Skin: Normal, Fair, Neutral
Hair: Blond, Wavy, Fine
Eyes: Green
In general I really disliked this product. I guess you get what you paid for...
Anyways, the packaging was really cheap. Like whenever I stuck it back in the tube, the bristols would get pushed up and now some of them are sticking sideways so it's super tricky to apply now.
I hate the way this goes on, there is no pigmentation, and the brush idea is just awful, it doesn't draw direct lines and it's not good for precise application. I don't recommend! Sorry!
Age: 18 & Under
Skin: Combination, Fair, Not Sure
Hair: Black, Other, Other
Eyes: Blue
I love this liquid eyeliner because it is very cheap. I would probably choose other, more expensive liquid eyeliners over this, but if I am going for an everyday look I would definitely choose this. It is very black and goes on slick.
Age: 18 & Under
Skin: Sensitive, Fair, Cool
Hair: Blond, Curly, Other
Eyes: Blue
I brought this liner with me while I was on a month-long trip to use as my main eyeliner. The brush provides a good amount of control and the depth of colour is very impressive. The black is not overpowering, but it is also notweak, and does not fade to a kind of grey-black throughout the day as some liquid liners do. It will stay put throughout the day if you don't touch it but it will smudge if you do, kind of expected though. A really good product for the price.
Age: 18 & Under
Skin: Combination, Fair, Not Sure
Hair: Blond, Other, Other
Eyes: Brown
I was really surprised by this eyeliner. I usually wear dark brown liquid liner, but for a Halloween costumes, I needed black, so I bought this because it was the cheapest liquid liner at target. After I was done with the costume, I was completely set to throw this out, or keep it for future costumes only. Then, yesterday, I went to Six Flags Over Texas. I needed a black liner, due to the fact that I was wearing false lashes instead of mascara, so I used this, fully expecting to have it run down my face all day long. I was there for 8 HOURS, IN 100+ heat, and this eyeliner neither smudged, ran, or flaked even once. I even went on several water rides, and they didn't bother my makeup. I absolutely highly recommend this liner for anyone who wants something cheap, sweat-proof, and easy to find. I usually wear high-end makeup, but I'll make an exception for this, considering it's better than anything else I've ever tried on(;
Age: 25-29
Skin: Sensitive, Fair, Not Sure
Hair: Red, Straight, Medium
Eyes: Blue
I have this in Pearlized Black. I love it! I wore it to a concert, got all sweaty, and it never budged! Love the fine tip brush, easy to control. Overall great product, I will be trying more colors.
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LANSING, Mich. (AP) — Rick Snyder's standing as one of the GOP's most accomplished governors has taken a beating in the crisis over lead-contaminated water in Flint, Michigan. Democrats, especially those running for president, have pointed to his administration's mishandling of the city's switch to a cheaper water supply as an example of Republican cost-cutting run amok.
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subset: commoncrawl


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Whatever, this post can be considered the first one for Friday, right?
And I like the topic. It specifically asks how helping older children develop their extracurriculars has impacted parents' careers. My kids are young, so I'm curious how life looks with older kids. Does it help when they learn to drive? Does their increased independence mean more independence for SAHPs in the hours from 3-6pm? I make it clear to my boss, co-workers and clients that I am not available between 3pm and 8pm unless there is something unusually urgent. In return, I make myself available at night and on weekends. Will I need to continue with this schedule until my kids go off to college?
I suspect part of the extra curricular frenzy stems from the from the school culture. My kids' schools use hetereogenous classroom groupings. This means a spread of up to ten school years in skill levels in one classroom.
I have bright kids. They are both bored out of their minds and unfamiliar with at dealing with a challenge and working hard at developing a skill. So, we try to find them challenging opportunities outside of school. Unfortunately, that means spending hours upon hours on sports, church, and 4-H activiites.
Will this increase their chances of getting into a good college? I hope so. Will this help them develop some useful lifeskills? I hope so too.
It does help when they learn to drive, but first you have to teach them to drive. That is an enormous time and energy sink even if a parent is home. Depending upon whether you live in a congested metro area or a laid-back small town, it can take more than a year of instruction to turn out a reasonably competent driver. Both states we've lived in with teenage drivers require 40-50 hours of "supervised" driving before the student driver is eligible to test, and that isn't really enough, IMO.
My son was on a serious club swim team in the DC area. They had 8 practices per week, both early in the morning and after school. The only way that parents working a traditional schedule could make the after-school practices work was either by arranging rides with other swimmers or hiring someone to act as chauffer until their child was old enough to drive. Most of my sons' teammates had at least one parent either at home or working a flexible schedule. The same was true of his friends who were on travel soccer, lacrosse, or baseball teams. And then there are the weekend meets and tournaments, which often required leaving school and work early on Friday, and being away from home until late Sunday. Kids who were playing exclusively on school teams didn't usually have these same logistical challenges, since transportation was usually provided to practices and games.
My high level of involvement is really not related to college at all. It is because I genuinely enjoy them, it is my job to equip them with the skills they need to navigate life, and I want them to reach adulthood as well-functioning people. My kids are not Ivy-bound, and I'm okay with that. I'm taking a much longer view, and just want them to be able to have a good foundation in life and the emotional fortitude to withstand whatever life throws at them. Given some of their early learning issues and related frustrations, this may require more time and effort in my house than in others. Structuring my job in a way that lets me provide the level of support and supervision I think is necessary (teleworking) has absolutely had a negative impact on my career, but I have a higher level of satisfaction than I would have, so it's alright with me.
First, I stopped working when my oldest was finishing elementary school, partly because I realized that spending more time with my kids (as opposed to our nanny doing it) would benefit them in many ways. At the time, college admission wasn't on my mind but in hindsight I realize the change in my employment status has had a significant impact. All those ECs take a parent's time, along with trying to make up the learning gaps left by our school system.
Second, I echo Jane's opinion on heterogeneous classroom groupings. For both my academically talented child and for my struggling learner, mixed proficiency level classes have been harmful and have required more parental involvement than would otherwise be needed.
Why all this additional togetherness?
Could it have to do with the age of parents? If it's 1962 and you're getting married just out of college at 22yo then your oldest will be off to college by the time you're 40yo. Today with parents having children later in life maybe that changes the dynamic? Maybe having your first child when you're 32 you end up more involved than someone who had their first at 22.
Our kids are too young to have any "college ambitions," and the only thing I do in that regard every night is read them a book that includes the line "I will not go to Dook, not even if it's free."
GaMom - LOL! I remember a similar line from childhood but not in a book. My dad used to say he would pay for me to go to college anywhere I want, as long as it's not UVA.
My DD is also too young to be thinking about college yet, but I'm interested to see the responses today. My goal is for her to have a balanced life with opportunities to explore a variety of activities in order to find 1 or 2 things (hopefully a sport and an art) that she really loves and can't live without.
It used to be that I thought things would get easier with respect to my kids as they got older. I mean, I just assumed that I would be able to "ramp it up" at work as my youngest hit Kindergarten. I am now realizing that not only is that NOT the case, things will get progressively harder. Gone are the days when you just had to drop them off and pick them up from daycare on your own schedule. Now we have to fit in enrichment activities that are not offered at school and do quite a bit of homework at night. When my youngest starts with homework next year, that will be double the work and take up our after dinner time. I try not to schedule any activities on weeknights, but that is not going to last long becuase there are certain activites that they have to do on weeknights, baseball being one. I don't even think that I overschedule my kids. They generally only have one major activity at a time, e.g., baseball for DS and gymnastics for DD (right now we are also doing swimming, but that will end soon). I can't imagine working a full-time schedule and being able to fit in activities and all the homework. Plus, what happens when DS gets to sixth grade and there is no after-school care anymore???? They get out of school at 2:30!
In other words, I can't imagine how my work schedule will ever be full time again. How do you all with older kids make it work?
Plus, what happens when DS gets to sixth grade and there is no after-school care anymore???? They get out of school at 2:30!
OH NO!!! He might need to be by himself for a few hours!!! The horror!!
I just have to say that I love the pic with this post! Rugrats was one of my favorite cartoons from when it premiered to the final episode, which I watched with my 10 yr old cousin when I was 20. We both cried!
I went to high school 11 miles from home with no bus service. There were many days when soccer practice ended and I would wait at the local coffee shop for my dad to come get me after he got out of work at 6pm. Do kids not do this anymore? I always ordered a tea and some sort of pastry, took a table and worked quietly in the corner.
A Son, I know you think kids are coddled, but I have to wonder if you'll re-think your position when your girls get to be that age. At that age, their brain development has just not kept up with their physical development, and there is just so much that can go wrong. Completely leaving out sex and drinking or drugs (which are HUGE problems in late middle school/high school), some of them just get stupid. I know I've used this example before, but in 7th grade a couple of neighbor boys came over to swim with my daughter and a friend. They tried to stack patio chairs on top of the grill so they could get on the roof to jump in the pool. It's only 6ft deep - who knows what would have happened if I hadn't noticed what they were doing. Another girl in the neighborhood walked into a moving car while texting, and got seriously hurt. (parents being around wouldn't stop that - it's just to illustrate that they are just really really dumb for a certain window of time). I'm definitely anti-hovering, but I can see not wanting your little darlings to be able to plan on having completely unsupervised time for a 4-hr block, 5 days a week. At an age where trying to fit in with your peers and show how cool you are is the highest priority, that freedom can be a dangerous thing.
A son, maybe GenXmom sounded a little dramatic to you, but from what I hear and observe, I'm very glad that my children didn't have to spend 4 hours a day unsupervised. Of course it depends on the kid and on other factors, but there's a lot of harm that can come from this, ranging from hours in front of the TV to unhealthy drug and sex activity. And yes, I do mean middle-schoolers.
GenXMom--you're right, it does get harder--I ramped down when my oldest reached kindergarten. 6th grade is when you hire an after school sitter--maybe a college student that your kid will think as cool--to drive and supervise. Go in with another family if the cost is an issue. A couple of our college student sitters have been tremendous role models for my kids (the others weren't bad role models, I'm just thinking of a couple that were extraordinary).
ranging from hours in front of the TV
THEY MIGHT WATCH TV!?!?!? Ahhhhhhhhhhh! If that's the case they certainly can't be allowed a moment alone - better take the bedroom door off its hinges and install hidden cameras throughout the house.
A son - There is a huge difference betweeen urban and suburban living for teenagers, what out of the house activities you can expect them to do on their own. And remember that yesterday some people were saying each teenager needed a private bathroom because they couldn't get ready for school on time if they had to negotiate bathroom usage with another person. Those children certainly can't be expected to be alone after school, negotiate travel to and from activities if that is even possible in the automobile based environment in which they live, or manage time in the house well enough to do homework.
GenX mom is right that if you want to provide a certain kind of enriched environment for your child (college admission is only one part) someone has to be there to drive and coordinate. And so many of the posters feel that there parents were deficient in supervision, whether they worked outside the home or were self absorbed or merely clueless, that barring extreme financial need they will want to be on top of everything. There is a bit of conflict in the desire to give a child personal space and privacy in their own bathroom, but at the same time monitor their email accounts and put a GPS locator on the phone.
If you ask my older child where she is going to college, she will say my alma mater. She has no true understanding of what college is, but she already knows that it is school for grown ups, that she has a college fund, that her parents went there, that she is expected to go when it's her time. We do lots of enrichment stuff with her, but much of it is at the daycare (music appreciation, Spanish, dance class) and the rest is on weekends (swim class at the Y). I'd like her to start formal piano lessons next year but am not sure how I'll fit in it. At any rate, she's totally fun to hang out with and she, her brother & her father are the greatest source of pleasure in my life, so I want to do my best to make sure that my logistical issues aren't her problem.
A son - a former coworker leaves every day at 2 to get home to her kids (she works 5-2 schedule). She was at home one day, working with her 4th grader on math, when her neighbor called. Turns out her 7th grader was in the alley behind the garage trying to light something on fire. And she was at home! I would be inclined to leave my 7th grader at home alone (though maybe not with a 4th grader) but not if he is remotely prone to doing fire experiments. (Too much TV, too many chips, whatever. Unsafe things? Not cool.) I stayed at home after school from 6th grade onward. My parents knew, however, that all of our immediate neighbors had SAHMs who would not hesitate to narc on me if something happened. I knew it too, so I did nothing stupid.
"first you have to teach them to drive. That is an enormous time and energy sink even if a parent is home. Depending upon whether you live in a congested metro area or a laid-back small town, it can take more than a year of instruction to turn out a reasonably competent driver."
I grew up in the D.C. suburbs, just like your kids. I got my learner's permit exactly three months before my 16th birthday, to the day. My dad took me to the DMV and I passed the computerized written test and got my permit. I got behind the wheel of our station wagon and he said "You know, we actually need to do some shopping over at Pentagon City. (This was rush hour, mind you). If you think you're OK, get on 495, that will be the fastest route. Let me know if you get uncomfortable, otherwise I'll just be reading the WSJ."
And I was fine. I was one of those kids like Jay Leno, I was ready to drive when I was 8.
what out of the house activities you can expect them to do on their own.
People should put more thought into where they are going to live before they make the suburbs the default option. DW grew up in the city and was talking the bus and T everywhere she needed to go by the time she was 10yo.
This article repeats myths. When will "journalists" stop scaring their readers by telling them that it's harder to get into college than it used to be and that multiple extracurriculars are essential for acceptance into a good school. The truth is that as the number of students has grown, so has the number of college positions. Only the top 50 schools are really selective; the vast majority of colleges accept well over half of their applicants. Go to collegeboard.com and check out the acceptance rates at Great Prairie State or You Don't Get What You Pay for U.
And don't fall for the activities hype. The selective schools are quite savvy and sneer at resume padding. Admissions officers at MIT, Stanford, and the Ivies are not impressed by all those trips to Costa Rica to save sea turtle nests. What they really love to see is a sustained commitment to a single interest or a true musical, artistic or athletic talent. And they know the difference between the kids who play in the school orchestra and the future Yo-Yo Mas.
I think it has so much to do with each kid. I am blessed to have an eldest son who is arguably more conscientious and responsible than I. He gets two or three "latch key" days every week (sixth grade.) We have very clear rules - call mom as soon as he gets in the door, no answering door or phone unless it's a recognized face/number. His routine is typically: Call mom, let dog out, fix snack, do homework, chill in front of ESPN. His latch key hours are only 1.5 to 2 per afternoon, though, because school lets out at 4p.m. He told me not long ago that he really relishes his alone time and I'm glad for him that he has that time to himself.
On the other hand, I can already tell that my daughter is a piece of work and I might not let her go unsupervised until she's in her 40s.... She's totally the light something on fire type....
THEY MIGHT WATCH TV!?!?!? Ahhhhhhhhhhh!
lol! To echo another poster who occasionally makes his/her presence known around here, "It's a choice; it's always a choice."
Some parents may choose to let their kids watch hours of TV after school while other parents choose to give up some income in order to make sure their children do other things instead. Neither parent is necessarily wrong or right, but it's a choice.
Ooops... I didn't even read the main article - I was responding to the side conversation about leaving kids home alone.
Enrichment - they play outdoors as much as possible, read a lot of books of their own choosing, take music lessons (per their request) and know how to swim. I don't really see a need for anything else.
Kaleberg, that is very true. Plus the top schools have put a lot of effort into increasing their applications because selectivity is a big criteria in the US News rankings.
A son, I think you're expecting a lot in terms of what people understand about their future lives.
When we were house shopping, we had only an infant. At the time, we were focused on finding a neighborhood with children in a semi-urban community with a good school district. Thank goodness our realtor, a woman with children of her own, directed us toward child-friendly houses as well. Busy roads were a no-brainer, but at that stage in our lives we didn't notice when yards were unusable for play or the like. And it certainly didn't occur to us to factor public transportation that older children could use into this list.
Agree w/ Kaleberg about better off to have a sustained committment to one or two things. Of course, in my day, being an average athlete at an average school, and the kind of kid that the freshmen admired allowed me to be the team captain. At a different school, I might not have been such a standout if I had not been on the now-ubiquitous "travelling" teams from maybe 5th grade on.
Totally agree with the idea that a sixth grader can spend some time on his own, city or suburb.
Would you agree that it's best to minimize the amount of unsupervised alone time an adolescent/teen might have?
The real point is that if a family chooses or knows its definition of happiness includes a pretty standard suburban lifestyle, and one adult earner has little flexibility in scheduling, the other adult has to plan to leave the workforce, scale back, run a home based flexible business or something similar and that early childhood is not necessarily the time when that plan has to implemented. That is something seems to come as a big surprise to thoughtful parents who wait a bit and get settled before having kids. This is a service that blogs like this can provide to new parents and parents to be who might have no trouble foreseeing the need for a kid friendly yard. There are alternatives - the common scenario in the Boston area, families with two workers who split early and late duties, supplemented by grandmother in the same town. Another for two professionals is boarding school at the age of 12, or a commitment to full time domestic help for many years.
"A son, I think you're expecting a lot in terms of what people understand about their future lives"
HGTV last night had this young couple trying to sell a Denver rowhouse they had bought as newlyweds for 165k, interest only, no money down, no principle paid in three years. It was a one bedroom, and the one bedroom didn't even have a door, it was just the second floor, which was accessed by a staircase with no railing/banister.
They now had a (very cute) little baby girl almost ready to walk, and they were going crazy because she would fall off the stairs as soon as she did. But more disturbing was every time they put her down to bed upstairs, they had to tiptoe around the rest of the house and whisper to not wake her up, since the bedroom had no door. No TV, no emptying the dishwasher, nothing. It was absolutely ludicrous.
And they seemed to have no savings whatsoever, and were counting on profits from the sale of their house in order to purchase another one, and kept saying "If we don't make any money on this house, we're giong to have to RENT!!!" The horror.
Right, Tucker. That's sort of what I'm thinking of, although obviously more extreme.
The house I was thinking of that our realtor talked us out of had an incredibly steep, rocky backyard. Not only was there no space for a swingset (and what's the point of suburbia without one, right?), but it would actually be dangerous for little ones. On the other hand, my kids NOW would think that yard was killer--lots of opportunity for adventure.
I just think it's had to always know what your family's needs will be. I honestly did not know I would spend this much time in the car before I had kids. Thank goodness we live near public transportation, but honestly that is just a fluke. It wasn't on my radar when I was still spending half my day at home with napping infants, emerging only for stroller walks or occasional errands.
Which is why I'm so curious about life with teenaged kids. I appreciate the point about driver's ed being a time sink. I was focused on teenaged drivers equalling liberation from carpool duty, and didn't even think about what it might take to get them there.
This is sad news for intelligent ghetto children but great news for upper class dumbs who'll have a lot of resources invested in them just because they won the parent lottery.
What a stupid way to allocate educational resources. I say test kids early in life and track them educationally. Top 10% or so get free college. Take mommy and daddy's money out of the equation. That's the kind of thing that gets you a president GWBush or JFK jr. as your DA.
Huh, 12:35?
Where in this thread is there discussion of educational resources? The OP asks how parents decide to allocate their personal resources helping junior pursue extracurriculars.
Like some of the others, I thought that when the kids got older things would get easier, but in reality things just changed. Some got easier, some got more complicated. Through 5th grade, the challenge was getting to after school care in time to pick them up. From 6th-8th, we were just blessed with at-home, observant neighbors and nerdy kids who did not get into trouble. For many of our friends, these years were the toughest, because most middle school sex and drug use does, in fact, occur between 3 and 6 pm.
In high school the sports started, which make good resume fodder for college applications - dedication to one sport and maybe one other activity is what they all say they want, not dabbling in a dozen things. But sports meant they had to be picked up after school, because the activity bus left before practice was over. And of course you have to go to the games and meets, because the other kids' parents are there. By the way, as the working mom in the group, that was one of the best ways to find out what really was going on at school, with the faculty, administration, and assorted teen drama - the moms who spend their days volunteering at school were invaluable to me.
Along the way DS was in scouting. It took a few years to figure out that the reason DH had to go on every camp out and hike was that he'd rather do that than rake the leaves and do the other yard work. But it really does take a lot of parental involvement to develop an Eagle Scout.
One sport per season, one hobby, and a curriculum loaded with honors and AP courses generally has left my kids too worn out to get in much trouble, and has also provided a good basis to do well on standardized tests and college applications.
A lot of the increased competition for the elite, and not-so-elite colleges has been driven in large part by the student loan industry. If you can get a loan to go somewhere you can't otherwise afford, you're more likely to give it a try, whether it makes financial sense or not. Also, you can research colleges and apply online, which makes it easier and encourages more people to apply.
"A lot of the increased competition for the elite, and not-so-elite colleges has been driven in large part by the student loan industry."
I'm not sure that complaint will win you much political support in Congress. "Things were much better when the elite colleges were only options for those whose parents could afford to pay cash."
But you're absolutely right.
Boo - In addition to being a time sink, the time spent with them driving is just fun. My daughter was always in a good mood because, hey-she's driving! We drove together almost every day that she had her permit (a whole year), for at leasst 20-30 minutes. It was just a really good way to spend time together, and she shared alot about what was going on in her life. Now that she's driving on her own, I have a lot more free time, but really miss the time with her. It's a pretty big reminder of the fact that she'll be going off to school in a couple of years, and just how much I'll miss her.
Tucker & Area Mom,
One other tiny component - airline deregulation. In 1975 a round trip ticker from Los Angeles to Boston might have cost $500 equal to $2000 today. It wasn't really practical, in 1975, to have kids from Boston going to USC and kids from LA going to Tufts - today it is.
LOL at the helicopter parent comments -- A Son, I think you are bored today and just trying to get a rise out of the group... :) I can't really relate to the topic as my kids have a long way to go before college, but I know it is in my driven type-A personality to be one of those uber competitive parents when the time comes. However, first and foremost, I want them to be happy, well rounded, self sufficient grown-ups one day. To me, an important part of that is spending lots of time with them today and as they grow up.
On leaving my kids alone for a few hours in 6th grade...this will be one I'll have to judge when they get there. One I could see being mr super conscientious...the other (our youngest) will be lining his friends up to repeat MBT's story of piling the deck chairs up and other antics, underscoring his need for additional brain development. He will be under a watchful eye until such time that I get comfortable he won't land himself in the ICU due to a stupid attack.
Just to balance out the limited male perspective on here, starting the occasional fire for recreational purposes is not that big of a deal. We once got a little campfire going starting with a magnifying glass.
The big thing is to teach your kids some common sense as early as possible, because they'll do alot of these things no matter what. My friend down the street and I had BB guns that our parents never knew about, and yet neither of us ever once shot them without wearing safety glasses.
When my kids were younger and had to be driven around to activities, the SAHMs or those w/ flexible jobs were able to give rides to practices or classes. Typical scenario - school got out at 3:20, soccer practice was 4-5. I would give 3 or 4 kids a ride to practice, and their mom or dad would pick them up at 5:00. Same for drama class, etc.
Once in high school the kids either take the bus to the activities or they are located at school or school sponsored (school provides transporation). Depending on the homework load or how dark it was, I would pick them up afterwards or they would take the bus home.
A Son - cleaning out some boxes in my parents' house, we found a plane ticket receipt from 1973, when they took a trip from NYC to India. Cost per ticket = $1000 (in 1973 dollars). My most recent trip to India, from MSP (2007) = $1100 (in 2007 dollars). My college was in the NE and we have a robust alum club here in MN, so I hear many stories from grads from the 1950s-1960s who grew up in MN and took a train to New England for college.
I do think the increased availability of financial aid has had some impact on the cost of education, but I don't know enough to quantify how much. One of my coworkers was looking at going to the University of Phoenix for college vs. Mankato State and the tuition difference was astronomical - UOP was like $30k+/year in tuition. Isn't that what Harvard tuition runs?
I forgot to add that I don't think anyone ever thought about college admissions when they were dealing with their little kids' activities. It was mainly to promote exercise, the kids' interests and friendship/team spirit.
Now that DS is doing crew, there is definitely talk about participating in that sport in high school helping with college admissions, but we'll see. He may not want to keep doing it throughout high school, much less college.
Now that DS is doing crew
Polo team was full up, huh? :-P
Didn't you see the movie "Thirteen"?
I could care less if my kid is in the backyard with a magnifying glass. I'm far more concerned about the likelihood of finding her in bed with a boy. I've been talking with her about sex for several years now, and she definitely has a lot of common sense, but she's also an adolescent.
agree with ssk. when i sign my kids up for stuff, it's because they want to do it (scouts, chorus, art class) or I think it's generally important (physical activity, religious school). the fact that my kid is a stand-out vocalist may or may not help her when she applies for college, but if it helps keep her happy and focused through the socially difficult years of middle and high school, i'm all for it.
Yes, and we didn't like the boys doing sailing or lacrosse - just not really top drawer, you know?
Would you agree that it's best to minimize the amount of unsupervised alone time an adolescent/teen might have?
Up to a point, yes. But parents have to start letting kids take on some responsibility for being on their own, usually starting around middle school. Otherwise, you'll end up with a college freshman lacking experience on how to handle himself, and that could spell trouble.
I'm just saying that for my family, my priority has been to avoid letting my middle schoolers have 4 hours a day, 5 days a week of unsupervised after-school time.
tangentially related to the discussion of latchkey kids, at what age do people think it's safe for kids to fly alone?
I've always taken my 7-yr-old to conferences with me, but am getting so tired of having my conference schedule dictated by the sitter's needs. This year I'm considering taking him to DC to play tourist for a few days, then putting him on a plane to come home where a sitter will care for him during the conference. I routinely leave him alone while I run short errands under an hour, and he's been flying since he was 3 mos old. Still, there are horror stories about unaccompanied minors ending up where they didn't mean to be... Do any of you have experience with unaccompanied minors flying? It would be 1 direct flight and my parents would pick him up at the airport to hand him off to the sitter.
Crew? I'll admit my DH wanted my son to take up fencing when he was about ten and he wanted my daughter to take up golf. He thought it would be good for college admissions. Okay, he also thought they would enjoy these activities. :-)
Is the direct flight nonstop? I think that makes a big difference in terms of the chances of things going awry. Seven seems too young to me, but that is my opinion. You might check the airlines for their age limits. If you have the money to do so, what about having your mom come for the last day and then fly back with him?
i think 7 is too young to fly alone. maybe i'll be dumped on for being a helicopter mom, but i wouldn't do it. once i was on a flight that was delayed multiple times because of bad weather. we finally took off, but were re-routed to another airport where we waited for many hours before being told that all flights were grounded and we were stuck there for the night. there was a little boy flying unaccompanied, and he really was not being adequately helped by airport staff. i can't imagine how scary the whole thing must have been for him.
Another parent in the household (or state) and grandparents nearby are luxuries that not all parent have.
I don't know how many colleges have fencing teams - girls golf is probably a good strategy. You don't hear a lot about high school girls golf teams!
Seriously, DS chose crew because we were pressuring him to do something athletic and he was never that good at baseball or basketball and liked the team mentality of rowing (everyone doing the same thing rather than one person hitting or throwing the ball and the pressure associated with that). The sense of responsibilty and not letting your team down is huge - they just started one 5:00 am practice each week and if one boy doesn't show up the boat can't go out, so I think he is learning some good lessons as well as getting in shape. He never complains about the time commitment and is enjoying the friends and sense of belonging.
ssk - The working parents would pick them up at 5pm? Which meant they left work earlier?!? We're both lawyers with an infant, and I've already taken a step back out of biglaw to work an 8-5pm job. My husband still works the 60-70 hour weeks. Working 8-5pm in my industry is considered practically part-time. It would be great if employers would increase availability of flexible schedules so we wouldn't even have to discuss whether to leave our children at home by themselves!
i think 7 is too young to fly alone.
Talk about raising a generation of helpless pu*sies.
grrr kids today, get off my lawn!!
saacnmama - I wouldn't if I were you. I flew solo as a child from Madrid to another location in Europe. Just one flight - when I was 8. I had flown internationally my entire life and was no stranger to air travel. I cried for the first half of the flight. The second half the nice man next to me talked to me ...but he was really creepy. Kept petting my arm in a way that made me feel very uncomfortable. You never know who your child will be sitting next to or forced to interact with and the airline staff will not have the same ability or desire to watch out for him that you do. I'd wait until he was older, is more aware and can watch out for himself.
to A Son - At the risk of overposting after lurking for such a long time...my parents were of your thinking and treated me like an adult even when I was a very small child. Thanks to them, I'm incredibly responsible and self-reliant. Unfortunately, I've also seen too much, too early, and experienced some things children should not have to experience. I'm going to raise my children differently. If that means they're wimps in your eyes, then so be it!
"What they really love to see is a sustained commitment to a single interest or a true musical, artistic or athletic talent."
Which requires a sustained commitment from the parents in order for the child to pursue that single interest. That's what I see among the parents I know. They aren't rushing their kids from one superficial activity to the next, but trying to get each child to the practices, lessons, games, performances, rehearsals, etc. required for his single interest.
Yes, one parent was able to get away. There were in a variety of professions, but it was usually the parent with the less high-powered job who would leave early. This was once or twice a week, certainly not everyday. If someone couldn't get away at the last minute another parent would take their child home and they would get picked up at the other kid's house, but that was pretty rare. Also the practices tended to go longer as the kids got older, so they might go until 5:30 or 6:00 as they moved into junior high
Ugh, Brklyn Mom, that reminds me of an experience I had when I was 11 years old. It was a domestic flight, and the man next to me spoke to me at length in another language. I told him several times that I did not understand, and tried to ignore him. When the flight landed, he stroked my leg in a way that made very clear to me that whatever he'd been saying was undoubtedly disgusting. Nothing bad happened to me, and nothing bad could have happened to me. I'm not saying that flying alone at 11 years old is a bad idea. But you can be seated for hours next to complete lunatics, and that can be disturbing at any age. I remember feeling very confused and upset after that flight. I wasn't sure whether I had done something to encourage him.
"You never know who your child will be sitting next to or forced to interact with and the airline staff will not have the same ability or desire to watch out for him that you do."
That would be my concern as well. Seven is just too young to deal with all of the unexpected and alarming things that can happen at an airport or on the plane.
a mom,
Aren't you also likely to get weirded out by youth pastors, soccer coaches, friends dad's, priests, bus drivers, friends older siblings, etc. etc? Should you not go to school, church, play sports or go over friends houses?
Get to REALLY know their friends before you decide to leave them alone for a few hours in their tween/teen years. If you have any doubts then don't leave them alone or unsupervised because it only takes 15 minutes to get pregnant or high/drunk. Even the intelligent kids get sucked into bad habits. Imagine one of your kids getting pregnant, or your son being a father at 16 even though he was on track to go to a top college. It happened to my neighbor, a very well to-do family.
Allboys, exactly. And the additional point to that is that these days, the peak of excellence at a single activity seems to involve an awful lot of travel and generally higher demands. When I was in high school our top student-athlete played for the Varisty high school team and the local rec club team and that's it. She could walk on her own 2 feet to most practices and took buses to games. Today that same student would probably be involved in year-round, state-wide "travel teams" with all kinds of wacky practice and game schedules in all different locations that require driving and coordination.
A mom, that's terrible. I'm very sorry that happened to you.
A son, don't make light of someone's experience as a child being sexually molested - even if it seems minor, you can tell it didn't feel that way to her at the time. I can see where having something like that happen to you would change your perception of what is safe and what isn't for your own kids.
A son! Totally unnecessary semi-expletive above, you should know better.
Re: middle schoolers staying home - what's up with all the judgie-mcjudgies on everything these days? It's so variable based on your kids' temperment, peer group, common sense level, hormones, house location...no parent on this board has the right answer for someone else.
I agree 7 is far too young to fly alone unless it's a direct flight and parents/guardians have the ability to be there gate to gate. But we had this argument a few months ago...
True, A son, but I never experienced something like that with anyone else. A big part of that, I know, is just luck. But maybe it also helps that I was never forced to sit for hours next to a youth pastor, soccer coach, bus driver, etc., that neither I nor my family had any familiarity with and would never see again.
The closest I can come is my friend's dad who used to show up in his leopard-print bikini down at the dock when we were sunbathing, but we just got up and left every time.
And remember, I didn't say that I thought flying alone at 11 years old was a bad idea. I just said that Brklyn Mom's story reminded me of an unpleasant incident that happened to occur when I was flying alone as a kid. If you must know, my own kid will be flying unaccompanied to visit a friend this summer. But I will let her know that she can demand a seat change if her seat-mate is making her uncomfortable. Children don't necessarily have the presence of mind or the self-assurance to call out a situation that is inappropriate on their own.
How Ironic:
what's up with all the judgie-mcjudgies
Yet: "7 is far too young to fly alone unless it's a direct flight and parents/guardians have the ability to be there gate to gate"
Crunchy and others - why do you think that has changed over time? DH talks about neighborhood baseball games - when you were little you watched and then gradually you would get to fill in for someone who didn't show up, then you got to play regularly. This was all "managed" by the kids themselves with no parental involvement whatsoever. How did these elite teams even develop? Parents are busier than ever now - it is weird to think of the travel teams starting up with all of the time that is required of parents as well as kids.
Judging - Saacnmama ASKED for opinions - people aren't jumping on her for stating hers. There's a difference. Though I do agree that subtlety on this board is hard to grasp. I'll try to use shorter sentences next time.
I just wanted to point out that humans have a hard time judging risk. A child is far more likely to be abused by someone they know and trust than some stranger on a plane. It's not going to be the guy in 11B who does it, it's going to be nice Mr. Jones everyone's favorite soccer coach. Or. Caitlyn's dad who does inappropriate things when he's had too much to drink - which is almost every night... etc.
ssk - I wish I knew. It is one of the things that stresses me out about my kids getting older. One side of me wants to "stop the madness" and refuse to participate in the escalation of sports - with greater demands that are coming at younger ages, with greater chance of injury, with risk of burnout, with all the traveling and scheduling and elimination of family downtime, the emphasis on winning at all costs, just the *excessiveness* of it all. I just don't want us to be a part of it. And then the other part of me wonders if I will somehow be failing my kid when I stand on principle like that.
A son - its a fair enough point.
its just that you want to be a little more sensitive about how you make it, given what the poster just shared.
On "stop the madness" - I was a huge proponent of unstructured, non-playdate play for my kids. There were lots of kids in the neighborhood, and they would play all day when they were little, every day after school, etc. Fast forward a few years, and since they haven't been playing a given sport since they were 5, it is very difficult to make the team in middle school and impossible in high school. If I had more on an idea of how the social structure of middle school and high school works today, I may have put more emphasis on having them pick a sport and play it from an early age, because I think social life would have been much easier as they got older.
"A child is far more likely to be abused by someone they know and trust than some stranger on a plane."
No question about that. But a young child flying alone is very likely to find herself in an uncomfortable/scary/unfamiliar situation in which no parent or other caring adult will on hand. The fallout from that sort of trauma, even if only over a minor thing like excessive turbulence or an extended delay in takeoff instead of a creepy seat-mate, could cause emotional damage for a long time, and make it impossible to consider allowing the child to fly alone for years. Is it worth the risk so that Sally can visit Grandma without an adult needing to escort her? To me, it's a no-brainer. Wait until she is older.
I agree with Allboys. The kids who are in multiple random activities don't seem to require the intensity of parental commitment that the kids with a focus on one or two activities do.
We've talked here before about the craziness of intense programs for young kids. I see this in our community, where the soccer and hockey players play year-round on travel teams beginning in elementary school. And it's not like there's an option to play at a lower level. My son wants to play hockey, but I can't find a group that doesn't require this kind of commitment.
Meanwhile, I know so many parents who feel like I do. So I wonder how this started and how it is being perpetuated. I'm sure there are some families who really do want their 8-year-old playing games out of state every Saturday. But what about the rest of the team? Are they just dragging along for lack of other options?
MBT - exactly. That's what I'm worried about. Picking a sport for my kids to play in middle school when they are 5 is ABSURD! But, there it is. Start now, or else be shut out later.
very likely to find herself in an uncomfortable/scary/unfamiliar situation in which no parent or other caring adult will on hand.
That's good for a child! That's what growing up is all about - learning to deal with situations when there is "no parent or other caring adult will on hand." You're he last person I expected to be so infantilizing.
So why don't you and the other parents organize your own league?
I thought my son might like to learn how to play tennis. He was 10, and I signed him up for beginner classes at the Y. He was the oldes kid by far: everyone else was 6 or 7. The age range given in the brochure was 6-12, but he was so mortified he never went back after the first class. I guess I will have to do private lessons now - but that seems crazy.
I feel the same as many of you, I'm disgusted by all this traveling team nonsense for 10 year olds. That being said, you people need to relax a little bit. If your concern is college, then you're still going to be better served focusing on academics, dollars to donuts. This whole board is full of a bunch of nerdy bookworms, so genetically speaking, none of our kids are going to be recruited NCAA athletes. As far as standing out in activities, your daughter can get the same mileage on a college application by being the editor of the school paper. And if she gets pushed out of that spot, she can one up the competition and be the FOUNDER and editor of the school's literary magazine, where they didn't previously have one. And if all that doesn't work, she'll be fine at the state university.
For the parent whose son is interested in crew because he's not thrilled with the more traditional team sports, I can sympathize with your son. Crew might be alot of fun, or it might be ridiculously intense for him as it gets more and more competitive. In college, it can mean getting up a 4:30 every morning to go "pull on the ergs."
But since I well understand what he's saying about being uncomfortable with the basketball/baseball dynamics, I would encourage him to try tennis as well. I talk about all of these sports from some level of personal experience, and tennis was by far my favorite. Cross country was good, too.
"I thought my son might like to learn how to play tennis. He was 10, and I signed him up for beginner classes at the Y. He was the oldes kid by far: everyone else was 6 or 7. The age range given in the brochure was 6-12, but he was so mortified he never went back after the first class. I guess I will have to do private lessons now - but that seems crazy."
Mortified by what?
I am all for the kids learning how to navigate the creepiness of the world, but thinking of a 7 or even 11 year old being stuck in an airplane seat for 3 or 4 hours next to a weirdo chills my blood. That is different from being on a city bus at 12 or 13 and knowing to switch seats and move up next to the driver if the weirdo sits down by you.
Teaching our children to be empowered (hate that word!) is part of our job, but I think there is an age where they can handle themselves, and 7 is not it, in my opinion. My understanding is that the friendly predators are very selective in choosing their prey - and most kids need some seasoning to be able to not be a victim.
There are of course, exceptions. There are the young children who seem like they could live independently at 8 or 10 - nothing ruffles their feathers, and there are also 15 and 16 year olds who can't get around on their own and are clueless about the real world.
To saac's mama -
Seven years old is very young to be alone on a flight, even for a very cool headed child. However, at nine I wouldn't worry about it if it were, say, Southwest from Boston to Midway non stop. United with a change of planes in O'Hare, no way. I don't like taking that route myself. And avoiding "creepy" situations is important, I wouldn't plan a child's life around it.
Also, I was a single parent myself - I was pointing out that two parent families with options (the vast majority of posters on this board) have frequently not taken into account the full ramifications of various decision points, e.g. car dependent location, one parent with an inflexible schedule, living near or far from family, number and type of activities for kids etc. It is possible to have an engaged child with an enriched (not national class athlete or musician) life, under adequate supervision, if one is a single employed parent or if both parents have full time jobs - but it may take a little planning or some luck or some out of the box thinking.
I flew cross country by myself at nine and had a blast. Seven would be a little young, in my opinion.
We have an excellent park system that offers: soccer, volleyball, basketball, hockey, baseball and softball along with dance and gymnastic classes. Many youth start kicking the ball around or hitting off a tee in Kindergarten and develop into very competent, confident ball players by late elementary school. Some of them try out for the school teams, but many kids are happy to play in the increasingly competitive park system (nobody gets cut, but the play gets more intense as the kids become bigger and better.) Also, starting the week after school gets out, the park offers "inner city tennis" which gives urban kids tennis lessons every morning at 8 a.m. for about six weeks for something like $50.
We couldn't sustain a traveling league in our house. I'd have to hire someone to just do that activity with whichever kid and I am not willing to do that. My kids play park sports year round (soccer-basketball-baseball) and play pick-up games in the neighborhood as soon as the mercury goes above freezing. It's been great the past couple of weeks since the snow melted and the clocks changed - every afternoon the neighborhood kids are running down the alley to shoot hoops. Most nights, my oldest is out with his pals from 4:30 to 7 p.m., comes in for dinner and goes back out until it's pitch dark. Soon, when the field is a little drier, they'll all troop down to the park and play baseball with however many kids they can pick up along the way. We live three miles from downtown, but sometimes it feels very much like 1950s small town America (in a good way) with the kids running around independently until dark.
I've said this before, but I know we lucked out in buying a house in a very family-friendly neighborhood with an elementary school two blocks away and a large park even closer. Our oldest was only four when we bought the house, but we thought longterm about how we wanted the kids to be able to walk to school (alone) and bike over to play ball ... We go entire weekends without using the car. This might be selfish, but I want my kids to "self direct" from a pretty early age.
I'm glad you are here - I was waiting for you to post!!!
I don't really expect him to row in college or have that help him get in - if it works out that he is good enough and likes it enough, that will be great, but I was just using that as the example of an activity that I have heard can help in admissions.
That was actually me talking about tennis - I forgot to put my name. We were looking to see if he would like something like tennis or swimming. He was mortified that he was so much older than the other kids, and I was referring to posts about having to start so young or you miss the boat. Golf and tennis seem like nice sports to know how to play into adulthood, but now is high school he would have to do private lessons since there doesn't seem to be any casual beginner classes for teenagers.
For tennis - try national junior tennis league or just buy a racket and a bucket of balls and have the kid hit against the backboard. More than anything, it's about practicing eye-hand and foot coordination. Once he's been doing that regularly and still shows interest, then you can start private lessons. I played through our local boys and girls club - fraction of the cost of the country club, even though we belonged to one.
Tucker, mortified by being twice as tall as all the other kids in class are yet being ten times worse in skill level. Maybe you don't think that's a big deal, but it certainly isn't conducive to motivating a kid to continue with a sport.
My younger kid is taking tennis lessons now as a 7th grader and she's in a class with young kids who've been doing this for many more years than she has. Luckily, she's petite and has been able to hold her own in class, but it was a different story when my son had a similar experience.
On sports - we are a little sports nutty around here, just because we enjoy them so much. So take my comments with a grain of salt. But we are pushing our boys towards exposure to lots of different sports. Soccer and t-ball because they're social & teach teamwork, swimming because it's a must-have when you live around water, tennis and golf because they're great lifetime sports and don't require making a team to continue to enjoy as you get older, and tae kwon do because it's fun. In a couple years we'll add basketball (though I'm still undecided on football). My assumption is some of this participation will die off out of a lack of interest, but I do think the more they're exposed to, the better.
Of course, this requires surprisingly little "shuttling" on my part, because all of this is available w/in a 15 minute bike ride or 5 minute car ride, so it's easy for me to fit these things into our juggle. If anything, it makes my juggle easier because it's an outlet for our high energy boys and everybody's happier after an afternoon at the soccer fields or the pool. The key for us is just not to do it all at once, but do different things all year round.
Rose, I was just asking "mortified by what?" b/c I really didn't know, I wasn't dismissing the reasoning.
ssk, and others re: tennis,
That's one I'd encourage you to keep after, though I'm admittedly biased. Golf, sure, if you like it, great, but there's not really any running or exertion to it, so to me it feels more like the old saying of "a walk through a nice park on a beautiful day ruined by a stupid game." :)
For tennis beginners, and actually for all levels, I'd look into the summer camps for this. I went to all kinds from day camps/leagues (lots of driving) to one-week-long away camps at state universities with their varsity players as counselors. Just look into the skill levels of each, because some of them are for varsity hs players to keep up their skills, and others are "this is how you hit a backhand."
Another topic designed to feed the self-servicing martyrdom of parents.
Tucker - walking 9 while carrying my bags is an exertion for me!
Tucker - we have a lot in common regarding tennis. I ditto recommendation for the summer camps and built up the sleep away camps at the state university. Even at those camps, there can be different levels. I recall having to win a lot of local matches to go to the camp that was led by the actual university coaches. I felt starstruck being able to go into the locker room of the top 5 women's tennis team. I had been reading about these players in my USTA magazine for months! I remember the first time Venus Williams was mentioned - she was still in elementary school I think.
but would not worry if your decisions are different than his, any more than you should for anyone else who posts here.
We all have different kids with different needs, and different comfort levels with independence depending on experience.
And A Son's daughters may have many great life experiences, or end-up complaining on some shrink's couch, it's all a gamble.
I flew solo for the first time when I was 5 or 6. Non-stop, dropped off at gate by parents and met at gate, I believe, by relatives, no issues. Before making a decision one way or the other, it's worth checking into the airline's policies about young travelers. I believe most now have mandatory or optional escort services for kids under a certain age, all for a fee of course.
Just to preface I grew-up in a very small town with a lot of independence so I understand where he is coming from.
But I raise my kids a little more guarded as I think people are not as close now in communities and I do not think that people are looking out for my children as diligently as they were in my small town.
So I am more careful, but not because I think that there is danger at every turn.
I'm on the West Coast and I don't understand the college obsession. Here, virtually everyone goes to the local land grant school. If they attend a selective school, it's for graduate school in science or engineering. I will not even attempt to pay for a highly ranked school for my children- state U is it! Engineering and science majors use the same textbooks and study the same material.
I did. I got a girls' volleyball team going last summer.
My DH says that he was raised to be an engineer from a young age. His EE father would bring home stuff from work to take apart. But he became an ME not an EE because they had a cheap soddering iron and he kept burnng himself. Our 6yo DS gets the opportunity to learn from his dad.
um, regarding minors travelling alone...
Perhaps one of you might have actually looked into buying a ticket. I looked into it bc we'll be having such a minor travelling alone to visit this summer. Delta will NOT sell you a ticket for a minor travelling alone UNLESS you also purchase "under-age traveller assistance" or something at $100/leg.
Someone from the airline takes the child from check-in to a "secure" area until boarding time, then puts the child on the plane, and at the other end another employee meets and takes the child to the next flight/waiting area or to the person that is pre-designated to receive the child.
The flight crew knows the child, too.
This, at least, applied to their international tickets, and would imagine it also applies to domestic.
So flying alone could very well be perfectly safe.
Then, again, airlines never lose luggage...
Tucker, sorry I snapped at you. I misunderstood your comment and this is something about which I'm a little too sensitive.
call me a troll,
Thanks for mentioning that. I had assumed every knew I was talking about using the unaccompanied minor service.
Meh. No worries.
Even with the unaccompanied minor service, I'd still be a little reluctant til they got a little older. The last several times I've flown we've had delays on the tarmac where we had to sit for an extended period of time before taking off, once causing me to miss my connecting flight. On another flight we hit significant turbulence, which made me extremely nauseous, and really freaked a couple of people out. that's a lot to ask a 7yr old to handle.
"Unaccompanied Minors
Singapore Airlines takes every step to ensure that your child is safe when travelling alone.
Throughout the journey - from checking-in for the flight, to arriving at the final destination - your child is always under someone's care. This service is accorded to our young passengers from 5 to under 17 years of age, when they travel without their parents or guardians aged 18 years and above.
So, when your child has to travel alone, book a flight with Singapore Airlines. It's the next best thing to being there yourself."
Seems most airlines seem to think that 5yo is ok...
so a 16 year old can drive himself to the airport, hand his bags to the sky-cap, check himself in, go through security, and then meet his escort at the Singapore terminal who will then take him under her care?
Testosterone oozes out of Tucker and A Son's rat-a-tat posts. Just sayin'
then meet his escort at the Singapore terminal who will then take him under her care?
I don't know about you but I can't imagine too many 16yo would object.
And just look at that seat!
It brings a tear to my eye.
I just finished the college process with my 18 year old daughter and her extra curriculars made a major positive contribution to the whole process. If you have the resources/manpower, it absolutely makes sense to support your child's activities -- my daughter was captain of her crew team (yes crew again), editor of her literary magazine and the student director for a range of drama productions at her school. This clearly involves massive parental involvement -- driving, bringing food/drink to events, et al -- but, as a result, she was a very attractive candidate for top colleges because of what she would contribute to the campus.
I've seen photos of the Singapore flight attendants - they are beautiful!
I like the testosterone - it would be boring if it was all women commenting!
At least for international travel that 16-yr old might not get passed check-in (if checking a bag) or security (if not) without a parental figure.
You can get arrested for attempting to leave the US with your own minor child without written consent from the other parent. Not knowing that, I was questioned very closely when taking one child with me to an overseas conference -- and that was pre-9/11 and TSA.
All of the colleges we've visited have mentioned that they consider a job an extracurricular activity. If your student isn't passionate about a sport and likely to be recruited by NCAA DI schools, it may make more sense to get a job than to join a team - especially the dreaded traveling teams. The colleges want to know that the kids can handle both a challenging course load and outside activities. A job plus a school based activity can show that.
In our case, DS was an ok athlete, but had a great coach - I figured the coach could teach him more about how to succeed in life than a McDonald's manager. On the other hand, I worked at McDonald's in high school, which taught me the value of having a college degree so I never had to go back to that.
My nephew (15) mentioned spending time in "Unaccompanied minor hell" at the Atlanta airport, with Airtran. Evidently there is a room funished much like a pediatricians waiting room that the minors get taken to when they have connections. He can't wait to age out of the system. One of my colleagues mentioned flying next to a young unaccompanied minor. My colleague had 4 dogs but no kids, and was not able to get the airsick bag out and ready fast enough to avoid being vomited upon. So maybe if your child flies solo, you should provide him with drink coupons for the neighboring passengers.
Crew is a great high school sport for kids who haven't yet become semi-professional in one of the "ball" sports. At most high schools, everyone is essentially a novice, and raw ability and willingness to work hard is a lot more important than proficiency developed after 5 years of travel teams and special coaching. And there is a fair amount of college scholarship money available for women with good erg scores.
MBT, I've found the same thing to be true:
"On "stop the madness" - I was a huge proponent of unstructured, non-playdate play for my kids. There were lots of kids in the neighborhood, and they would play all day when they were little, every day after school, etc. Fast forward a few years, and since they haven't been playing a given sport since they were 5, it is very difficult to make the team in middle school and impossible in high school."
I don't know how we would have added more in, but there are definitely opportunities that already seem all but closed off now that she's in 7th grade. I had thought that middle school was going to be a time to try new things out and possibly develop into an athlete, but it has not seemed to be the case. I still disagree with overscheduling the sports in preschool/elementary years, but if that is what most are doing, it has an impact on your child's chances. Coaches at DD's school don't need to bother with the kids who have potential but need some more training, they have plenty of kids who have honed skills over years in club and travel teams.
We fly across the country every year at least once to visit relatives. I haven't been comforable with the idea of the kids travelling alone yet because every time there is another nut on a plane trying to light his shoes or underpants onfire, I've thought of how frightening that would be to a child alone on a flight, especially a tween or young teen who is aware of news/current events. For now, we want them to have someone with them on a flight who can comfort them should something bizarre happen.
MBT and firefly:
I once heard a woman decrying the fact that her son's school was going to let 7th and 8th grade boys who had never played join the soccer team. She said "My son has been playing coached soccer since he was 3 years old, and he shouldn't be playing on a team with boys who've never even kicked a soccer ball."
That is what seems to happen and I don't know that there is anyway around it!
there is another nut on a plane trying to light his shoes or underpants onfire
You are aware that the risks you face in life have almost nothing to do with what you see on TV? I knew people had trouble assessing risk - I just had no idea how bad the situation has gotten.
People should put more thought into where they are going to live before they make the suburbs the default option.
Keep in mind that the needs for younger kids are different than the needs for older kids. Living in a suburban-type neighborhood is much more preferable when the kids are younger, IMO. My kids are 8 and 6 now, and they've always been able to play outside by themselves. They ride their bikes all over the neighborhood. In the summer, we can set up a pool (although they are probably outgrowing it now) in the backyard. We have a trampoline, and so on.
In an urban neighborhood, we would have a much smaller yard, if we had one at all. The kids would probably haven't been able to go outside on their own until they were 5 or 6, depending on how much traffic there was. Things would be much more difficult. Of course when they are older, having public transportation available would be better. So it's a tradeoff.
No, I realize the risk is extremely small, that is why three weeks after 9/11 I packed up my family and flew across the country for a family visit back to NYC, and was not concerned about anything happening. As I said, we all fly regularly and enjoy it. What I really meant was more along the lines of a variation of the 'creepy" strangers some other posters mentioned. There are some looney tunes out there who act disruptive, drink too much and say crazy things on planes, and a child might be frightened that something much more sinister is going on. If an adult is with him/her, they can help them stay calm and fee safe. For older teens this would not be necessary - I'm just thinking of 9-13 yr olds.
The comment about scholarship money for athletes is misleading. The average athletic scholarship is less than $6000.00, and it's often a one shot deal. Only the gifted get the full scholarships. Your child is not going to pay her way through school by playing golf, tennis, crew, lacrosse, fencing or ping pong. That's not going to get her into Stanford, MIT, Princeton, Harvard or Yale, either.
I just spent the better part of ten years shepherding Hepzibah through the long slog to admittance at one of the top 5. Hepzibah was a decent field hockey/lacrosse player, but here's what got her in: top grades in a math and science heavy curriculum, including a 5 in AP Chemistry during her junior year, 2370 total on the SATs, supportive teachers who wrote great recommendations, and - wait for it - a summer job at a sewage treatment plant. That last became one of the centerpieces of her application. The school went wild over Hepzi's loving description of the engineering needing to run the plant.
great point, I think that it really depends on the caliber of school that you are looking at & the area of study.
Having a hodge podge of activity is not necessary, I think playing a sport & having some interest in an art gives a student a well rounded look not for scholarship purposes but to show the student can be a team player & be responsible enough to be part of a team sport. and a job can also highlight those qualities.
Aside from that there is a wide range of activities, but certain ones like the sewage plant job kind of separate one from the pack which lend gravitas.
But for another school or major the high school paper editor, drama club etc could be good qualifiers.
I'm looking at this assuming the student already aced the SAT's and has AP courses completed which are impressive, meaning that the activities are what will give the student the edge as others will have the same academic capabilities/achievements.
Living in NYC has its drawbacks, and more than its share of competitive parents, but one thing I never had to do was chauffeur my child to extra curricular classes, or wait for her to take them. Since 7th grade, she got herself to museum and dance classes, test prep, etc. I think it made her much more sophisticated, confident, and strategic.
Getting into a good college means applying to the right "target" schools. Grades and test scores matter most. Extracurriculars help develop a complete person, and should be chosen by the individual child. You can't keep adding activities without subtracting. When your child is not interested in say tap dancing any more, you don't want to force her to continue just so it looks like she had one great passion for her college application. Homework is a big time consumer, and after a while, parents can't help. We have found with teenagers that they don't want to spend time with us (parents). Parents' time to play with their kids, or work on class projects with them, is short.
Crew got a friend's son into Yale as a transfer student, even though he was dinged when he initially applied. He was recruited for another school, and was spotted by the Yale coach at a regatta. The next year, he was at Yale.
Quite a number of slots at top schools are reserved for recruited athletes. They are not all football and basketball players. A top rower, swimmer, or tennis player can indeed play her way into admission, and sometimes a decent tuition break. But I agree that full scholarships are few and far between, and mostly at schools that families wouldn't even consider apart from the sports team.
A top rower, swimmer, or tennis player can indeed play her way into admission, and sometimes a decent tuition break. But I agree that full scholarships are few and far between, and mostly at schools that families wouldn't even consider apart from the sports team.
Exactly - those spots are very few. My stepbrother was a standout HS basketball player in NJ. He was the school athlete of the year, first team all-conference, etc. He got a partial scholarship to Ramapo College. That's a good local college and nothing to laugh at, but that's the realistic goal for most good HS athletes.
It's amazing how many parents (not necessarily here, but just in general) don't understand this. They think their kids who are good athletes but nothing special (maybe the third-best player on their team) are going to get a full ride somewhere, and it's not going to happen. But they still waste money signing up with recruiting services that convince them that they will get their kids a full ride somewhere.
Allboys ant Kaleberg,
You both so very right. We're dealing with kids with nearly perfect GPA, SAT and ACT scores, along with numerous other amazing extracurricular activities. No matter how gifted an athlete you are you're not going to turn your 3,7GPA and 1380 (measured on the old system) SAT scores into a place at Stanford If you were such a great athlete that you could turn a 3.7GPA into a place at Yale - you'd go to Michigan or Miami or Ohio or Florida State and hopefully onto your career in the NFL.
Harvard isn't looking for Tom Brady they're looking for John Roberts.
I think Roberts is what Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Princeton look for as the perfect kid
"] He studied five years of Latin (in his four years)[3] and some French, and was known for his devotion to his studies. He was captain of his football team (he later described himself as a "slow-footed linebacker"), and was a Regional Champion in wrestling. He participated in choir and drama, co-edited the school newspaper, and served on the athletic council and the Executive Committee of the Student Council.[3] He was also valedictorian.
He attended Harvard College, graduating with an A.B. in history summa cum laude in three years. He then attended Harvard Law School, and was the managing editor of the Harvard Law Review[3]. He graduated from law school with his J.D. magna cum laude in 1979.[5]"
Regarding sports and other ECs, it's true being among the top athletes in your community will not in itself get you into your dream elite college. My takeaway after just going through the college app process with my older kid is that IN ADDITION to top grades and test scores, elite colleges seek students who express consistent, unusual themes in their activities, as in Kaleberg's case.
A well-rounded super achiever like John Roberts was/is certainly an attractive candidate, but because of today's increased competition for slots at the top schools, I think something that makes a student stand out in a unique way may be more important than it was 25 years ago. That could be a top student with an engineering interest who worked summers at a sewage plant, a devoted soccer player with killer test scores who founded a summer soccer clinic for low-income kids or a valedictorian with an avid interest in film who founded a wildly successful student film festival.
Mind you, for the most part I'm talking about the top 20-50 schools. Otherwise, I don't' think a killer hook or theme is necessary for college admittance. Just being a BWRK will do. (And if you don't know that acronym, it might mean you haven't been obsessively hanging out at collegeconfidential!)
And I will go on public record with my prediction that within 20 years, most college courses will be administered online. This escalation of college costs is simply unsustainable.
My son knows several swimmers at Ivy schools. None of them was a John Roberts. But in addition to good (not necessarily the top) grades and scores from respectable high schools, they were all swimming at the national level, some with Olympic Trials cuts.
Just being a BWRK will do. (And if you don't know that acronym, it might mean you haven't been obsessively hanging out at collegeconfidential!)
Of course it would have been faster for you to just say what a BWRK is (bright well-rounded kid) instead of gloating about how you are much more in the know than the rest of us.
That wasn't gloating, it was self-deprecation. She was saying she spent too much time on there.
I disagree. If it was self-deprecating, she would have included what it stands for.
I lettered in my sport my 3 years in HS and my 4 years at college. I did not get an athletic scholarship, and I wasn't in a big sport for my school. In fact, I hadn't planned on playing when I applied, but I changed my mind prior to getting there.
I played on a city all-star team my senior year in high school, and one of my teammates was the best player coming out of our city that year. We both got into the same prestigious school, me for my grades, and she for her athletic ability. Her SAT score was very low. I chose a different school, but in her 4 years playing for that school they got to the NCAA semis twice and the finals once. I would have had to walk-on to even try-out, and I probably wouldn't have made her team.
I'm glad that I had the opportunity to play college-level sports. I think the lessons that I learned both in getting a team to work together and competing have been valuable in my career. My sport provided a quick feedback loop - you tried something and it either succeeded or it didn't. And if it didn't, you tried a different approach.
I don't know if my DS will be athletic or not. I try not to impose my goals on him. I'd like him to be the best that he is capable of, whatever that is. I hope that he can do enough sport to enjoy the social aspect of games. I think that having enough physical activity is important, but it doesn't have to come in the form of organized sports.
So what was the sport?
I specifically included all the information that I was comfortable with sharing.
Oh gosh, you misunderstood my intent. As Tucker suggested, I wasn't trying to gloat, but just confessing to my (unhealthy?) obsession with the college app process. But, now that you mention it . . . ;-}
Exceptionally strong athletes with good to very low SAT scores do gain admission to top colleges, as both Allboys and Santa Barbara Juggler wrote. However, most Ivy League admitted students possess what could arguably be described as "top" academic statistics. At Columbia, for example, 94% of first-year students ranked in the top 10% of their high school graduating class and 75% of them had SAT scores above the 94th percentile. Students admitted with lower stats probably had a very powerful hook, such as being national level athletes, legacies or underrepresented minorities.
Obviously if you say what the sport is everyone will be able to identify you because you're the only person in Santa Barbara who played it in college.
It really amazes me how people are so paranoid about giving out information that in no way would identify them, like saying "I went to a top 10 college" rather than naming the school.
"That's good for a child! That's what growing up is all about - learning to deal with situations when there is "no parent or other caring adult will on hand." You're he last person I expected to be so infantilizing."
A seven-year-old doesn't need to go through that. He or she really doesn't. The end result will be a kid who is afraid of adults.
A Son, you're reinforcing my belief that most men just don't get how creepy and, frankly, damaging it is to be sexualized (even if you're not touched) as a young girl. Even the most sensitive men I know don't quite get it. I remember being extremely anxious about walking to a friend's house when I was 12 because adult males in cars would honk and stare at me - and I was still very childlike in appearance! Nothing good came out of it.
Normally don't do this type of thing, but I just read this book and it was fantastic. Its called "You Have A College Degree, Now What?" and I now feel as if I'm in the right frame of mind for success to take place. I'm graduating from college in May and thanks to this book I now feel prepared. Here's where I found it at.
My two boys are graduating college in May. Neither of them know what they want to do. Found this book yesterday. I'm hoping it will spur them on. "You Have A College Degree, Now What?" http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0578044048/ref=cm_sw_r_fa_dp
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Get to market faster with NeuroSky pre-built algorithms.
NeuroSky algorithms provide the foundation of a universe of applications that can be built to optimize brain health, education, alertness and overall function. To learn more about building applications based on our algorithms, visit our developer page.
Visit developer.neurosky.com to learn more »
The Attention Meter algorithm indicates the intensity of mental "focus" or "attention." The value ranges from 0 to 100. The attention level increases when a user focuses on a single thought or an external object, and decreases when distracted. Users can observe their ability to concentrate using the algorithm. In educational settings, attention to lesson plans can be tracked to measure their effectiveness in engaging students. In gaming, attention has been used to create "push" control over virtual objects.
The Meditation Meter algorithm indicates the level of mental "calmness" or "relaxation." The value ranges from 0 to 100, and increases when users relax the mind and decreases when they are uneasy or stressed. The Meditation Meter quantifies the ability to find an inner state of mindfulness, and can thus help users learn how to self correct and find inner balance to overcome the stresses of everyday life. The algorithm is also used in a variety of game-design controls.
Blink Detection
The Blink Detection algorithm signals a user's blinks. A higher number indicates a "stronger" blink, while a smaller number indicates a "lighter" or "weaker" blink. The frequency of blinking is often correlated with nervousness or fatigue. Eye blinks are akin to a standard on/off binary system and therefore are valuable for controls that require definitive responses. For instance, in communication applications, one blink means no, two mean yes — giving individuals with a special needs a simple way to communicate.
Mental Effort
The Mental Effort algorithm measures the mental workload while performing a task. The harder a user's brain works on a task, the higher the value. The algorithm works well with both physical (e.g., drawing) and mental (e.g., reciting) tasks, and can be used for continuous real-time tracking and between-trial comparisons to measure the effects of multi-tasking, workload variability, and more. The algorithm can be used to track the effects of diverse cognitive loads on the ability to learn and provide feedback for user self-improvement.
The Familiarity algorithm tracks learning processes to measure the relative level of understanding, learning, or comfort with a task. It is a measure of the subconscious learning of procedural (motor) and mental tasks. In some cases, it reflects how well a user is doing with the task. By observing trends, users can better understand and assess their learning process. It can be applied to tasks that are physical in nature (e.g., drawing) or mental (e.g., recitation), and enable data-tracking assessments to gauge learning status.
The Appreciation algorithm provides real-time measurement of the level of enjoyment or appreciation a subject feels towards an external audiovisual stimulus. The algorithm allows moment-by-moment detection of emotions. In marketing applications, it can be used to track and understand a users level of appreciation, providing insights and strategic direction for marketing efforts.


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CIA demands drones despite 80% civilian death rate.
- Uploaded by Velesmyst on Jun 20, 2013
- Views: 35
The CIA wants to significantly expand its fleet of drones - and is pressing the White House to give the go ahead. It would allow the agency to sustain - or even increase - lethal strikes abroad, including those in Pakistan. The news comes just a day after the Pakistani Interior Minister quoted statistics suggesting 80 per cent of people killed in US drone attacks have been civilians. Rehman Malik said in 300 strikes, more than two thousand people have died. RT's Irina Galushko looks into the bloody history of U.S. drone operations in Pakistan.


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My doctor just told me that my B12 levels are 55 which is extremely low even for non-pregnant.Ā I just started taking vitamin b12 supplement 5000 mcg. can I take more than one a day. I might be pregnant and heard B12 is one the most cruicial vitamins in the first trimester.
vitamin B12 deficiency
Levi (June 2012) is a big brother!
Mira (Feb. 2014) is now little sister!
Comments (6)
My OB told me to take B 100 Complex which not only has B6, but also has other 'B's too.
I only take B12 500 mcg. I don't know how much your doctor told you to take,
Elizabeth wife to Derek
TTC Cycle #49
Come on baby, we are ready for you!
Check with your dr. on dose. I believe B12 is water soluble, so after a certain amount you'll just pee excess out. For best absorption, take it on an empty stomach (or very little food) and not at the same time you take iron/prenatal vitamin.
I have low B12 and have for years.┬Ā I'm a vegetarian, so it's a pretty normal thing for vegetarians to be low in B12.┬Ā I've taken 1000 mcg a day for years.┬Ā It is a water soluble vitamin and any extra will get flushed away in your urine.┬Ā I probably wouldn't bother to take 2 though.┬Ā Your body can only process so much of it anyway and if you are taking a prenatal there is probably B12 in it as well.┬Ā Didn't your doctor give you a specific recommendation on how much to take?
Also a good doctor will have you on a high dose for a few months and then recheck your levels.┬Ā If your B12 levels go up you'll just keep taking the vitamin.┬Ā If they don't go up that means your body doesn't absorb the B12 well as in some type of anemia and they might put you on B12 shots.
The best type of B12 to take is a sublingual.┬Ā It's a little dropper bottle with liquid.┬Ā You put however many drops the bottle recommends under your tongue and hold it there for a few seconds before you swallow.┬Ā That's the easiest kind for your body to absorb.┬Ā I used to be really careful about using my sublingual drops, but I've gotten lazy and started taking pills.┬Ā My energy level is definitely better when I do the sublingual.
Another recommendation is to take Emergen-C.┬Ā It has high doses of B12 as well as other vitamins and minerals!
Amy (36) My Blog
^Bear^ 19 weeks 3/9/11 CH, Hydrops, T21^ Baby 2^ 6 1/2 weeks 8/8/11 Finally my rainbow Jameson John 10/27/12!
thank you ladies.┬Ā My doctor left me a message on the phone and it is hard to reach her until 6pm.┬Ā she doesn't know I might be pregnant.┬Ā I am trying to take a higher dose because I already miscarried once in march at 5 weeks, and it might be due to low B12 levels.┬Ā they did not notice till now and only because I request anemia check. hopefully, I can raise high enough for it not to be a problem.
Levi (June 2012) is a big brother!
Mira (Feb. 2014) is now little sister!
I take:
2500 mcg of b-12
1200 mg folic acid
50 mg B-6
Along with a bunch of other Vitamins
Women are never stronger than when they arm themselves with their weakness.
Single mom to 1 (DD,8), with one on the way


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Frontiers: A Journal of Women Studies
Volume 34, Number 2, 2013
pp. 1-24
In Edgar Degas's Miss La La at the Cirque Fernando (1879) we see a dark-skinned woman suspended in midair on a rope secured by her teeth. Placed in a position of a commercial display, she is an eroticized and exoticized object of public consumption, in a way also resembling a lynched figure, since the rope extends upward, and her head seems to be thrust backward. Marilyn Brown's essay "Miss La La's Teeth" discusses the painting "within a broader visual practice of social masquerade, ranging from depictions of minstrelsy to those of interracial performance, in which racial difference was simultaneously represented and obfuscated by the white gaze." However, as Brown notices in her groundbreaking study of the picture, the assumed strength of Miss La La's teeth also points to something else: the threat she may pose to a vulnerable man who could be entrapped by her redoubtable jaw. If the popular assumption that Degas was impotent and celibate is true, then the powerful toothed mouth of Miss La La possibly reveals not only "a stereotypical colonial object for male modernist self-projection" but also Degas's fear of female organs and castration. The trope of exoticized and demonic women equipped with menacing powers, especially the power of castration, has been alive not only in European painting but also in North and South American folklore, Indian mythology, Irish legends, and Modernist literature. Recall Joseph Conrad's dark voracious female representing Africa and numerous other Modernist (and pre-Modernist) tropes of the devouring mother to observe a certain pattern, a connection between the myth of a menacing female and endangered masculinity and—I'd like to add—collective national identity as well. While it is beyond the scope of this paper to make any universalist claims about anxieties relating to female sexuality, I will look at a localized example of a phallogocentric imagining of one nation—Ireland—in James Joyce's fiction. Although Vincent Cheng, Enda Duffy, Jolanta Wawrzycka, Joseph Valente, Kimberly Devlin, and others have published excellent scholarship on either nationalism or gender in Joyce, I believe that we can grasp the assumptions and sentiments about Irish society in Joyce's texts more fully, in their complexity and paradox, when we look at issues of gender and nation as contrapuntal, interdependent elements.
The nationalist ethos in turn-of-the-century Europe linked emasculation and deformation with ethnic otherness, and James Joyce—a writer who moved among Dublin, Paris, Trieste, and other major cultural centers—soaked in the popular representations of women and ethnic others in literature and art, which included Degas's paintings of sharp-toothed circus women and hooknosed Jews. Joyce himself explores the intersections among male-centered institutions, sexual performance, and performance of ethnic identities, and he links the problem of biopolitics of gendered body parts to the mythos of soon-to-be independent Ireland. He recognizes the subaltern characters—that is, in early-twentieth-century Ireland, women and ethnic others—as threatening not only to the perceived racial purity of a nation but also to a particular kind of masculinity inscribed within the mythos of Ireland: masculinity synonymous with domination, control, virility, and heteronormativity. The purveyors of the nationalist narratives linking valiant and virile masculinity with Irish identity cast the other as voracious, lying in wait to pounce upon the nation's manhood. Joyce recognizes this trope in nationalist narratives and redeploys it, sometimes mockingly, in his own descriptions of the subaltern. However, he also counteraccuses this nationalist mythos by describing Ireland itself as an all-devouring, dangerous parasite. Ulysses thus presents a rather uncivil dialogue, accusations and counteraccusations, at the core of which is an unmistakable connection between the feminine and the threat of loss. For Irish nationalists it is the loss of purity and order; for artists it is the loss of productive artistic inspiration.
In Ulysses Joyce gives us a confluence of contentious issues, from parochial bigotry toward women and Jews to musings on artistic autonomy, national belonging, and adultery. Leopold Bloom (a Jewish canvasser in Catholic Ireland), Molly Bloom (his unfaithful wife), and Stephen Dedalus (a would-be artist who rejects the Catholic dogma) are all semiconsciously implicated in a...
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