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Fly to Space For Free With the Space Needle Sweepstakes
It's going to be a long shot, but it's one I'm willing to fire: Seattle's Space Needle is running a contest that will get one lucky person up in space. It's not going to be the ISS, but I'm game. »


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I know it sounds stupid getting rid of numbers, but...
So Sarah said last night on Survivor Season 28 Episode 3, as the Brawns tribe actually considered throwing a challenge in order to bench one of its strongest players.
The dumbest move in Survivor history? It has to be up there, doesn't it?
Did the group actually go through with it? And who got the boot from this week's episode? Keep shaking your head over this idea and go watch Survivor online:

subset: commoncrawl


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News and training opportunitiesCool websites and reports on hot topics*Interesting journal articlesNew BooksFree E-Books
March 2015News and training opportunities
Chikungunya in the United StatesApril 8, 2015, 3:00-4:00 PM EDT. This presentation will review basic Chikungunya virus distribution, transmission cycles, clinical disease and medical issues, diagnostics, epidemiology, surveillance, and response. https://events-na10.adobeconnect.com/content/connect/c1/1053915029/en/events/event/shared/1070490169/event_landing.html?sco-id=1150298796&campaign-id=NACCHO%20Connect Could a diet help shield you from Alzheimer's?Scientists say the MIND eating plan significantly reduces risk of the brain disorder. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_151718.html
Data for health: learning what worksOn Thursday, April 2, 2015, RWJF will host an event to announce the release of their report from their Data for Health initiative. The event will be live, in Washington DC and available via webcast. http://www.rwjf.org/en/about-rwjf/newsroom/newsroom-content/2015/02/data-for-health-learning-what-works.html
Environmental Public Health Tracking virtual conferenceMay 13-14, 2015. This virtual conference will serve as a platform to raise awareness and inform state health department chronic disease directors and appropriate staff of the value and usage of National Environmental Public Health Tracking Network. http://chronicdisease.site-ym.com/members/group_content_view.asp?group=147790&id=472029
Food additives alter gut microbes, cause diseases in miceThe findings suggest that certain food additives might play a role in the increasing incidence of obesity and chronic inflammatory bowel disease. http://www.nih.gov/researchmatters/march2015/03162015additives.htm
How vitamin D may affect heart disease, diabetesThe mechanisms uncovered may lead to novel therapies. The findings also suggest that vitamin D might help prevent the complications of diabetes and inflammation. http://www.nih.gov/researchmatters/march2015/03302015vitamin.htm
Major publisher retracts 43 scientific papers amid wider fake peer-review scandalA major publisher of scholarly medical and science articles has retracted 43 papers because of "fabricated" peer reviews amid signs of a broader fake peer review racket affecting many more publications. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/03/27/fabricated-peer-reviews-prompt-scientific-journal-to-retract-43-papers-systematic-scheme-may-affect-other-journals/?tid=pm_national_pop
Precision Medicine InitiativePresident Obama has now unveiled the Precision Medicine Initiative — a bold new enterprise to revolutionize medicine and generate the scientific evidence needed to move the concept of precision medicine into every day clinical practice. http://www.nih.gov/precisionmedicine/
Progress reported in battling advanced ovarian cancerExperimental vaccine and cancer drug each slow disease progression, researchers find. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_151733.html
This is why you shouldn't believe that exciting new medical studyResearchers writing in the American Journal of Medicine looked at 101 studies published in top scientific journals between 1979 and 1983 that claimed a new therapy or medical technology was very promising. Only five made it to market within a decade. http://www.vox.com/2015/3/23/8264355/research-study-hype
White House releases plan to combat and prevent antibiotic-resistant bacteriaThe Obama Administration has released the National Action Plan for Combating Antibiotic Resistant Bacteria (NAP). The NAP outlines a whole-of-government approach over the next five years targeted at addressing the threat of drug resistance in bacteria. https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2015/03/27/our-plan-combat-and-prevent-antibiotic-resistant-bacteria
Cool websites and reports on hot topics*
AJPH study: installing breathalyzers in cars could lower drunk driving injuries and deathsAccording to the study, alcohol ignition interlock devices could be key to preventing 85 percent of alcohol-related crash fatalities over a period of 15 years. http://www.publichealthnewswire.org/?p=12434
DNA blood test gives women a new option for prenatal screeningThis kind of test , called cell free fetal DNA testing, uses a simple blood sample from an expectant mother to analyze bits of fetal DNA that have leaked into her bloodstream. http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2015/01/26/368449371/dna-blood-test-gives-women-a-new-option-for-prenatal-screening
FDA OKs new drug for diabetes-linked eye conditionEylea injections appear to ease diabetic retinopathy, studies show. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_151656.html
HHS launches innovative digital storytelling project to support federal HIV responseThe U.S. Department of Health and Human Services has released Positive Spin, a comprehensive digital educational tool that uses personal storytelling to promote the importance of getting people with HIV into treatment. http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2015pres/03/20150325a.html
Health Impact Assessment tools and resourcesHealth Impact Assessment (HIA) is a practical tool that uses data, research, and stakeholder input to determine a policy or project's impact on the health of a population. This site provides HIA guides, tools, training materials, and other resources. http://www.humanimpact.org/new-to-hia/tools-a-resources/
Healthcare-associated Infections (HAI) progress reportProgress Being Made on Hospital Infections, But More Work Needed: CDC Report Tracks Improvements in Care. http://thenationshealth.aphapublications.org/content/45/2/1.3.full
HIV can spread early, evolve in patients' brainsFindings add urgency to screening, treatment. http://www.nih.gov/news/health/mar2015/nimh-26a.htm
NLM releases TOXinvaders, a mobile game about chemistry, the environment and healthThe Division of Specialized Information Services of the National Library of Medicine has launched TOXinvaders, an environmental health and toxicology game for iPhone and iPad. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/news/toxinvaders_mobile_game.html
Public does not understand danger of opioid addictionThe conclusion from a new report from the National Safety Council is sweeping: Americans have a severe knowledge gap when it comes to prescription painkillers. http://www.astho.org/StatePublicHealth/Public-Does-Not-Understand-Danger-of-Opioid-Addiction/3-12-15/?blogid=4396
UN chief urges governments intensify efforts to end tuberculosis by 2035With some 37 million lives saved between 2000 and 2013 through the diagnosis and treatment of tuberculosis, it is possible to end the epidemic by 2035. http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=50411#.VRqtM0-Ya71
Interesting journal articles
Association of aspirin and NSAID use with risk of colorectal cancer according to genetic variants. Nan H, Hutter CM, Lin Y, et al. JAMA. 2015;313(11):1133-42. doi: 10.1001/jama.2015.1815.IMPORTANCE: Use of aspirin and other nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) is associated with lower risk of colorectal cancer. OBJECTIVE: To identify common genetic markers that may confer differential benefit from aspirin or NSAID chemoprevention, we tested gene × environment interactions between regular use of aspirin and/or NSAIDs and single-nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) in relation to risk of colorectal cancer. DESIGN, SETTING, AND PARTICIPANTS: Case-control study using data from 5 case-control and 5 cohort studies initiated between 1976 and 2003 across the United States, Canada, Australia, and Germany and including colorectal cancer cases (n=8634) and matched controls (n=8553) ascertained between 1976 and 2011. Participants were all of European descent.EXPOSURES: Genome-wide SNP data and information on regular use of aspirin and/or NSAIDs and other risk factors. MAIN OUTCOMES AND MEASURES: Colorectal cancer. RESULTS: Regular use of aspirin and/or NSAIDs was associated with lower risk of colorectal cancer (prevalence, 28% vs 38%; odds ratio [OR], 0.69 [95% CI, 0.64-0.74]; P = 6.2 × 10(-28)) compared with nonregular use. In the conventional logistic regression analysis, the SNP rs2965667 at chromosome 12p12.3 near the MGST1 gene showed a genome-wide significant interaction with aspirin and/or NSAID use (P = 4.6 × 10(-9) for interaction). Aspirin and/or NSAID use was associated with a lower risk of colorectal cancer among individuals with rs2965667-TT genotype (prevalence, 28% vs 38%; OR, 0.66 [95% CI, 0.61-0.70]; P = 7.7 × 10(-33)) but with a higher risk among those with rare (4%) TA or AA genotypes (prevalence, 35% vs 29%; OR, 1.89 [95% CI, 1.27-2.81]; P = .002). In case-only interaction analysis, the SNP rs16973225 at chromosome 15q25.2 near the IL16 gene showed a genome-wide significant interaction with use of aspirin and/or NSAIDs (P = 8.2 × 10(-9) for interaction). Regular use was associated with a lower risk of colorectal cancer among individuals with rs16973225-AA genotype (prevalence, 28% vs 38%; OR, 0.66 [95% CI, 0.62-0.71]; P = 1.9 × 10(-30)) but was not associated with risk of colorectal cancer among those with less common (9%) AC or CC genotypes (prevalence, 36% vs 39%; OR, 0.97 [95% CI, 0.78-1.20]; P = .76). CONCLUSIONS AND RELEVANCE: In this genome-wide investigation of gene × environment interactions, use of aspirin and/or NSAIDs was associated with lower risk of colorectal cancer, and this association differed according to genetic variation at 2 SNPs at chromosomes 12 and 15. Validation of these findings in additional populations may facilitate targeted colorectal cancer prevention strategies.
Association between breastfeeding and intelligence, educational attainment, and income at 30 years of age: a prospective birth cohort study from Brazil. Victora CG, Horta BL, Loret de Mola C, et al. Lancet Glob Health. 2015;3(4):e199-205. doi: 10.1016/S2214-109X(15)70002-1.BACKGROUND: Breastfeeding has clear short-term benefits, but its long-term consequences on human capital are yet to be established. We aimed to assess whether breastfeeding duration was associated with intelligence quotient (IQ), years of schooling, and income at the age of 30 years, in a setting where no strong social patterning of breastfeeding exists. METHODS: A prospective, population-based birth cohort study of neonates was launched in 1982 in Pelotas, Brazil. Information about breastfeeding was recorded in early childhood. At 30 years of age, we studied the IQ (Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale, 3rd version), educational attainment, and income of the participants. For the analyses, we used multiple linear regression with adjustment for ten confounding variables and the G-formula. FINDINGS: From June 4, 2012, to Feb 28, 2013, of the 5914 neonates enrolled, information about IQ and breastfeeding duration was available for 3493 participants. In the crude and adjusted analyses, the durations of total breastfeeding and predominant breastfeeding (breastfeeding as the main form of nutrition with some other foods) were positively associated with IQ, educational attainment, and income. We identified dose-response associations with breastfeeding duration for IQ and educational attainment. In the confounder-adjusted analysis, participants who were breastfed for 12 months or more had higher IQ scores (difference of 3•76 points, 95% CI 2•20-5•33), more years of education (0•91 years, 0•42-1•40), and higher monthly incomes (341•0 Brazilian reals, 93•8-588•3) than did those who were breastfed for less than 1 month. The results of our mediation analysis suggested that IQ was responsible for 72% of the effect on income. INTERPRETATION: Breastfeeding is associated with improved performance in intelligence tests 30 years later, and might have an important effect in real life, by increasing educational attainment and income in adulthood. FUNDING: Wellcome Trust, International Development Research Center (Canada), CNPq, FAPERGS, and the Brazilian Ministry of Health.
Efficacy of folic acid therapy in primary prevention of stroke among adults with hypertension in China: the CSPPT randomized clinical trial [published online ahead of print March 15, 2015]. Huo Y, Li J, Qin X, et al. JAMA. doi: 10.1001/jama.2015.2274.Importance: Uncertainty remains about the efficacy of folic acid therapy for the primary prevention of stroke because of limited and inconsistent data. Objective: To test the primary hypothesis that therapy with enalapril and folic acid is more effective in reducing first stroke than enalapril alone among Chinese adults with hypertension. Design, Setting, and Participants: The China Stroke Primary Prevention Trial, a randomized, double-blind clinical trial conducted from May 19, 2008, to August 24, 2013, in 32 communities in Jiangsu and Anhui provinces in China. A total of 20 702 adults with hypertension without history of stroke or myocardial infarction (MI) participated in the study. Interventions: Eligible participants, stratified by MTHFR C677T genotypes (CC, CT, and TT), were randomly assigned to receive double-blind daily treatment with a single-pill combination containing enalapril, 10 mg, and folic acid, 0.8 mg (n = 10 348) or a tablet containing enalapril, 10 mg, alone (n = 10 354). Main Outcomes and Measures: The primary outcome was first stroke. Secondary outcomes included first ischemic stroke; first hemorrhagic stroke; MI; a composite of cardiovascular events consisting of cardiovascular death, MI, and stroke; and all-cause death. Results: During a median treatment duration of 4.5 years, compared with the enalapril alone group, the enalapril-folic acid group had a significant risk reduction in first stroke (2.7% of participants in the enalapril-folic acid group vs 3.4% in the enalapril alone group; hazard ratio [HR], 0.79; 95% CI, 0.68-0.93), first ischemic stroke (2.2% with enalapril-folic acid vs 2.8% with enalapril alone; HR, 0.76; 95% CI, 0.64-0.91), and composite cardiovascular events consisting of cardiovascular death, MI, and stroke (3.1% with enalapril-folic acid vs 3.9% with enalapril alone; HR, 0.80; 95% CI, 0.69-0.92). The risks of hemorrhagic stroke (HR, 0.93; 95% CI, 0.65-1.34), MI (HR, 1.04; 95% CI, 0.60-1.82), and all-cause deaths (HR, 0.94; 95% CI, 0.81-1.10) did not differ significantly between the 2 treatment groups. There were no significant differences between the 2 treatment groups in the frequencies of adverse events. Conclusions and Relevance: Among adults with hypertension in China without a history of stroke or MI, the combined use of enalapril and folic acid, compared with enalapril alone, significantly reduced the risk of first stroke. These findings are consistent with benefits from folate use among adults with hypertension and low baseline folate levels.
Increasing sibling relative risk of survival to older and older ages and the importance of precise definitions of "aging," "life span," and "longevity" [published online ahead of print March 26, 2015]. Sebastiani P, Nussbaum L, Andersen SL, Black MJ, Perls TT. J Gerontol A Biol Sci Med Sci.The lack of a formal definition of human longevity continues to generate confusion about its genetic and nongenetic determinants. In order to characterize how differences in birth year cohorts and percentiles of survival are associated with familial contribution to variation in survival, we estimated sibling relative risk of living to increasingly rare percentiles of survival based on a dataset of 1,917 validated sibships each containing at least one individual living to age 90 years. About 1,042 of the sibships included at least one individual who survived to age 100 and 511 included at least one individual who survived to age 105 and older. We show that sibling relative risk increases with older ages, sex, and earlier birth year cohorts of the proband and siblings of male 90-year-olds (5th percentile of survival) have 1.73 (95% CI: 1.5; 2.0) times the chance of living to age 90, while siblings of both male and female probands who survived to age 105 years (~0.01 percentile of survival) have 35.6 (95%CI: 15.1; 67.7) times the chance of living to age 105 compared with population controls. These results emphasize the importance of consistently defining the longevity phenotype in terms of rarity of survival for appropriate comparisons across studies.
Loneliness as a public health issue: the impact of loneliness on health care utilization among older adults [published online ahead of print March 19, 2015]. Gerst-Emerson K, Jayawardhana J. Am J Public Health. 2015:e1-e7.OBJECTIVES: We aimed to determine whether loneliness is associated with higher health care utilization among older adults in the United States. METHODS: We used panel data from the Health and Retirement Study (2008 and 2012) to examine the long-term impact of loneliness on health care use. The sample was limited to community-dwelling persons in the United States aged 60 years and older. We used negative binomial regression models to determine the impact of loneliness on physician visits and hospitalizations. RESULTS: Under 2 definitions of loneliness, we found that a sizable proportion of those aged 60 years and older in the United States reported loneliness. Regression results showed that chronic loneliness (those lonely both in 2008 and 4 years later) was significantly and positively associated with physician visits (β = 0.075, SE = 0.034). Loneliness was not significantly associated with hospitalizations. CONCLUSIONS: Loneliness is a significant public health concern among elders. In addition to easing a potential source of suffering, the identification and targeting of interventions for lonely elders may significantly decrease physician visits and health care costs.
Loss of δ-catenin function in severe autism [published online ahead of print March 25, 2015]. Turner TN, Sharma K, Oh EC, et al. Nature.Autism is a multifactorial neurodevelopmental disorder affecting more males than females; consequently, under a multifactorial genetic hypothesis, females are affected only when they cross a higher biological threshold. We hypothesize that deleterious variants at conserved residues are enriched in severely affected patients arising from female-enriched multiplex families with severe disease, enhancing the detection of key autism genes in modest numbers of cases. Here we show the use of this strategy by identifying missense and dosage sequence variants in the gene encoding the adhesive junction-associated δ-catenin protein (CTNND2) in female-enriched multiplex families and demonstrating their loss-of-function effect by functional analyses in zebrafish embryos and cultured hippocampal neurons from wild-type and Ctnnd2 null mouse embryos. Finally, through gene expression and network analyses, we highlight a critical role for CTNND2 in neuronal development and an intimate connection to chromatin biology. Our data contribute to the understanding of the genetic architecture of autism and suggest that genetic analyses of phenotypic extremes, such as female-enriched multiplex families, are of innate value in multifactorial disorders.
Olfactory impairment and traumatic brain injury in blast-injured combat troops: a cohort study [published online ahead of print March 18, 2015]. Xydakis MS, Mulligan LP, Smith AB, Olsen CH, Lyon DM, Belluscio L. Neurology.OBJECTIVE: To determine whether a structured and quantitative assessment of differential olfactory performance-recognized between a blast-injured traumatic brain injury (TBI) group and a demographically comparable blast-injured control group-can serve as a reliable antecedent marker for preclinical detection of intracranial neurotrauma. METHODS: We prospectively and consecutively enrolled 231 polytrauma inpatients, acutely injured from explosions during combat operations in either Afghanistan or Iraq and requiring immediate stateside evacuation and sequential admission to our tertiary care medical center over a 2½-year period. This study correlates olfactometric scores with both contemporaneous neuroimaging findings as well as the clinical diagnosis of TBI, tabulates population-specific incidence data, and investigates return of olfactory function. RESULTS: Olfactometric score predicted abnormal neuroimaging significantly better than chance alone (area under the curve = 0.78, 95% confidence interval [CI] 0.70-0.87). Normosmia was present in all troops with mild TBI (i.e., concussion) and all control subjects. Troops with radiographic evidence of frontal lobe injuries were 3 times more likely to have olfactory impairment than troops with injuries to other brain regions (relative risk 3.0, 95% CI 0.98-9.14). Normalization of scores occurred in all anosmic troops available for follow-up testing. CONCLUSION: Quantitative identification olfactometry has limited sensitivity but high specificity as a marker for detecting acute structural neuropathology from trauma. When considering whether to order advanced neuroimaging, a functional disturbance with central olfactory impairment should be regarded as an important tool to inform the decision process. CLASSIFICATION OF EVIDENCE: This study provides Class III evidence that central olfactory dysfunction identifies patients with TBI who have intracranial radiographic abnormalities with a sensitivity of 35% (95% CI 20.6%-51.7%) and specificity of 100% (95% CI 97.7%-100.0%).
Suicide in U.S workplaces, 2003-2010: a comparison with non-workplace suicides [published online ahead of print March 7, 2015]. Tiesman HM, Konda S, Hartley D, Menéndez CC, Ridenour M, Hendricks S. Am J Prev Med. doi: 10.1016/j.amepre.2014.12.011.INTRODUCTION: Suicide rates have risen considerably in recent years. National workplace suicide trends have not been well documented. The aim of this study is to describe suicides occurring in U.S. workplaces and compare them to suicides occurring outside of the workplace between 2003 and 2010. METHODS: Suicide data originated from the Census of Fatal Occupational Injury database and the Web-Based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System. Suicide rates were calculated using denominators from the 2013 Current Population Survey and 2000 U.S. population census. Suicide rates were compared among demographic groups with rate ratios and 95% CIs. Suicide rates were calculated and compared among occupations. Linear regression, adjusting for serial correlation, was used to analyze temporal trends. Analyses were conducted in 2013-2014. RESULTS: Between 2003 and 2010, a total of 1,719 people died by suicide in the workplace. Workplace suicide rates generally decreased until 2007 and then sharply increased (p=0.035). This is in contrast with non-workplace suicides, which increased over the study period (p=0.025). Workplace suicide rates were highest for men (2.7 per 1,000,000); workers aged 65-74 years (2.4 per 1,000,000); those in protective service occupations (5.3 per 1,000,000); and those in farming, fishing, and forestry (5.1 per 1,000,000). CONCLUSIONS: The upward trend of suicides in the workplace underscores the need for additional research to understand occupation-specific risk factors and develop evidence-based programs that can be implemented in the workplace.
New Books
52 strategies for life, love, & work : transforming your life one week at a time. Anne Grady, 2014. (BF 637 C5 G733 2014)In this book, topic range from dealing with difficult people to navigating and managing change, productivity, happiness, and more. These 52 strategies provide a week-by-week template for success that will keep you motivated to making positive changes in your ownlife.
The ASTD leadership handbook. 2010. (HD 57.7 A883 2010)This book is a compilation of insights, ideas, and tools that will enable individuals, teams, and organizations to develop their leadership capabilities. Topic areas covered in the book are leadership competencies, leadership development, attributes of successful leaders,contemporary leadership challenges, and broadening the leadership discussion.
Expanding the boundaries : health equity and public health practice. National Association of County & City Health Officials, 2014. (W 76 N188 2014)This book explores the ways in which health equity practitioners might act on the underlying social inequalities that are the root of health inequities, rather than only their consequences. It aims to invite dialogue among local health departments and their community allies.
New eBooks
Free books from Amedeo:
Hepatology 2015 (6th Edition, 655 pages)A medical textbook that provides a comprehensive and up-to-date overview of research, diagnosis and treatment of hepatic conditions. http://www.FlyingPublisher.com/9005.php
The Word Brain (2nd Edition, 81 pages)How long does it take to learn a new language? How many words do you need to learn? Are languages within the reach of everybody? Which teachers should we avoid? These are some of the questions you ask yourself when you or your children start to learn a new language. The Word Brain provides the answers. http://www.TheWordBrain.com
GigaFrench GigaFrench is a multimedia language course. Everything's free: the Book, the website and the audios. http://www.GigaFrench.com
Italian with Elisa (Volume 1, 220 pages)Italian with Elisa is a multimedia language course. Everything's free: the Book (220 pages) , the website and the audios. http://www.4Elisa.com
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Nitrogen Fixing Plants
jase. grimm
Joined: Sep 29, 2008
Posts: 6
Jan 11, 2009 16:08:45
I'm relatively new to the
concepts of guild/companion planting and have encountered some conflicting information about the use of nitrogen fixing plants (namely legumes inoculated with bacteria) in guilds. Some people and resources have advocated planting things like goumi and
black locust
because they are nitrogen fixers and will make nitrogen available to plants around them but I recently heard that these plants only really fix nitrogen for themselves and it would only become available if you cut back the plants so the root matter died and released it into the soil. Is there enough ephemeral root matter to die off in the soil to release nitrogen or is it really all stuck inside said plant?
Leah Sattler
Joined: Jun 26, 2008
Posts: 2603
Jan 12, 2009 06:36:27
I have also read that nitrogen fixing plants such as alfalfa or beans must be tilled back into the soil to release the nitrogen and make it available to other plants because the nitrogenis stored in little nodules in the roots. Maybe there something I missing or maybe each year some of the roots die back and introduce the nitrogen to the surrounding soil. either way from my research I have concluded that nitrogen fixing plants are a much more complicated scenario than they are often presented as. I personally will stick to them as cover crops in a cultivated garden or utilize them if they have other redeeming qualities as companion plants but don't paln on wasting much time or space on them just for the sake of thier abilitity to fix nitrogen.
"One cannot help an involuntary process. The point is not to disturb it. - Dr. Michel Odent
paul wheaton
Joined: Apr 01, 2005
Posts: 17427
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
Jan 12, 2009 10:17:34
Killing any plant releases it's nitrogen back into the soil.
The concern about feeding surrounding plants while living is an excellent concern. This area of study is pretty massive.
For example, I remember reading Toby's book to see that black locust and honey locust are both N-fixers. So I used to be a big fan of thornless honey locust for a variety of reasons. But! Toby pointed out via a mailing list that Honey Locust makes just enough for itself and does not share. But black locust makes enough to share.
Further, I think it was Dave Boehnlein (of bullock brother's farm fame) was giving a tour and mentioned that if he grew an alder and then cut off branches on one side, that within weeks he would see greening of the area under where those branches used to be. As if the roots tat would mirror the branches
had died. (my memory on this is pretty sketchy - perhaps Dave will clarify)
The important thing is: if black locust shares and honey locust does not, that means that there is a massive spectrum of N-fixing plants and how much they share. (and, of course, there is a spectrum of N-consuming plants and how much they consume)
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Steve Nicolini
Joined: Nov 15, 2008
Posts: 224
Jan 12, 2009 14:29:18
How does a plant "share" the nitrogen it fixes?
Dave Boehnlein
Joined: Jun 10, 2007
Posts: 294
Location: Orcas Island, WA
Jan 12, 2009 17:30:45
As I understand it you don't necessarily have to cut or till in an n-fixing plant to have it benefit those around it.
If you did take one of those black locusts you mentioned and whacked off the top and 50% of the branches there would be a corresponding amount of root death (not necessarily a 1:1 ratio, but roots will certainly die in amounts relative to the amount you whack). This root death and decay is what releases nitrogen into the soil.
Does that mean you have to whack off the tops of all these n-fixers to gain their benefits? Nope. Just like your skin is constantly going through a process of replacing itself, so are a plant's hair roots. Roots are dying all the time and releasing nitrogen. New roots are growing as well and forming nodules to generate more nitrogen. Therefore, in many cases you don't need to whack everything to take advantage of it's nitrogen-fixing nature.
Now that said, Paul is correct that if you do whack a nitrogen-fixer back at the right time of year (generally a few weeks before the associated plants will be entering a growth period) you will create a large charge of nitrogen in the soil. My sample size is unscientifically small, but I've been whacking a set of alders each spring that had been planted in the same hole as black walnuts. I've certainly noticed improved growth on the walnuts, but I can't draw a distinct relationship between my pruning and the growth (since mulching, companion planting, and
all went in in the last few years).
The "nitrogen-fixer whacking" strategy is applied extensively in the tropics with species such as Gliricidia, Erythrina, & Leucana. In fact, if you didn't whack these species in the tropics they would be very likely to completely smother the target species (avocado, jackfruit, mango, etc.) since they grow so fast. I don't know of any scientific research, but if it exists, I suspect the examples are in the tropics. Perhaps there is further info at
or the Nitrogen-Fixing Tree Association's (NFTA) website...
Paul, with regard to the honeylocust example, you may have stumbled upon a species that falls into the "exception" category. Last I heard there was widespread disagreement in the scientific world as to whether honeylocust fixes nitrogen or not. If not, it would be kind of weird as it is a legume. However, I believe that finding nodules on the roots is very uncommon (if anyone has found them at all). However, due to the fact that the tree can handle growing in harsh conditions it is possible that something unique is happening. For instance, the tree could be fixing nitrogen in a different way, it could have fungal associates instead of bacteria, or it could be a "sometimes" nitrogen fixer (it is possible that it will form a relationship with nitrogen-fixing bacteria when planted in tough conditions and not bother when the soil is rich). I believe another species of some confusion is Redbud (Cercis spp.).
Given all this confusion about honeylocust, it is possible that Toby views it as a marginal tree for nitrogen-fixation (thus not assuming it makes enough to share). However, there are a couple selected honeylocusts that have been bred for the nutritional value of their sweet pods (both for animal and human food). I believe these are 'Milwood' & 'Calhoun'. You can learn more about these in J. Russell Smith's
Tree Crops: A Permanent Agriculture
. And lest one start poo-pooing the honeylocust I'd also like to mention that they are one of the best shade
for the northern climates and provide good timber to boot.
Anyway, that's the latest knowledge I've got. If anyone knows of any new discoveries regarding honeylocust I'd love to hear about it.
Principal - Terra Phoenix Design
Susan Monroe
Joined: Sep 30, 2008
Posts: 1093
Location: Western WA
Jan 12, 2009 17:37:49
Some time back, I was reading about feeder roots (those out past the dripline of the plant), and the article indicated that these roots only live for a few days, they die and more are formed. When they die, their nodules break down into nitrogen that becomes available to other plants.
Steve Nicolini
Joined: Nov 15, 2008
Posts: 224
Jan 13, 2009 14:45:33
Would it be wise to plant a few red alders in a food forest? I know the cambium is edible, and they fix nitrogen, and provide mulch with their leaves.
I have limited space and want to put something there that will benefit the forest the most. The two trees I were thinking of were red alder and black locust. These would be part of an apple-based food forest.
Susan Monroe
Joined: Sep 30, 2008
Posts: 1093
Location: Western WA
Jan 14, 2009 13:45:14
Alders will mine nutrients (esp nitrogen) and shed them in their leaves, a benefit. But using alder as a food plant... I don't know. Just because something is said to be edible doesn't mean you would ordinarily eat it unless you were literally starving. 'Edible' tends to mean that
peoples may have used it as a food source, and that it isn't poisonous in normal amounts. It doesn't mean that it tastes good, that you would want to eat it unless you were starving, that the tree would even survive if you harvested much of it.
I my opinion, it would be too large and cast too much shade to be valuable for your uses. There are enough alder trees growing wild around here that it might be more effective to just collect the leaves in baskets off your property, and use them a beneficial, nitrogen-rich mulch in your growing area.
Steve Nicolini
Joined: Nov 15, 2008
Posts: 224
Jan 14, 2009 18:34:36
That is true. We have alders on the property too. But I am thinking of putting them on the northmost end of the forest. Maybe letting them mulch the forest themselves. Then I don't have to gather leaves for mulch.
I tried the cambium of alder once. It was cool, eating wild and all, and I felt like a bear, but it was a little woody... you are right about it not being choice.
Would it be a violation of permaculture principles to have species in a FOOD forest that aren't food?
Susan Monroe
Joined: Sep 30, 2008
Posts: 1093
Location: Western WA
Jan 14, 2009 18:53:23
Permaculture is not a religion (no matter what some people think). It is a way of using Nature's methods to work for us.
There is an old story of a young Native American that was sent out into the wilderness by the medicine man (probably a trainee) and told to bring back samples of all the plants he could find that had no benefit of any kind. He returned in a month empty-handed, explaining to the elder that he couldn't find any plant that was useless.
You need to tailor your planting to YOUR wants and needs. If your neighbor is doing permaculture and only wants to grow rutabagas, sunflowers and roses, that's fine. You can grow kumquats, sweet corn, beans, squash and Iceberg lettuce. Suddenly you decide that you also MUST have nasturtiums and alyssum. That's fine, too. And if your other neighbor doesn't want to grow anything but strawberries, more power to them.
After all, there's no reason for you to grow turnips and peas if you despise turnips and peas.
Grow what you'll eat, grow what you like, grow what you think is pretty.
Vegetables and fruit are foods for the body, flowers are food for the soul. And there are osier willows for basketry, rhubarb for making ornamental
leaves, mulberries to make paper, and sweet sorghum and millet to
the birds.
Steve Nicolini
Joined: Nov 15, 2008
Posts: 224
Jan 16, 2009 18:20:10
I thought we were trying to grow what will be best for all life. If I just want
apple tree
s and plant an
orchard, that is not permaculture to me.
Ornamental concrete leaves? How do they function?
Susan Monroe
Joined: Sep 30, 2008
Posts: 1093
Location: Western WA
Jan 18, 2009 21:28:13
"I thought we were trying to grow what will be best for all life."
YOU may grow whatever you want. *I* am not going to waste time, energy and assets to grow something that is not useful to me. I will eat
raw before I eat cauliflower.
Concrete leaves are just interesting and pretty!
Leah Sattler
Joined: Jun 26, 2008
Posts: 2603
Jan 19, 2009 06:46:06
I don't think permaculture is growing what is best for all life. but often things that are good for the ecosystem are good for us too. part of it is doing the best we can to support ourselves without harming anything else. ultimately because that helps us. am I selfish? yes. I love my life at least as much as any animal loves his. I find it disturbing that the human struggle is so often dismissed. do we need to do some things different as a society? of course.
why is planting dill to help distract insects from my vegies not permaculture? because I don't have enough stuff? I don't have any illusion that Ican design a system better for the world than already exists. I think our 'mission' is to find a way to live within it not alter it. find a way to fulfill
needs just as every other animal on the planet does. if we all just do our part.....
if you want to "help" all life. the best thing for us to do is leave it alone and not put our bumbling hands in the matter at all. I think it is very arrogant of people to think they can design a system better for "all life" then nature can.
Susan Monroe
Joined: Sep 30, 2008
Posts: 1093
Location: Western WA
Jan 19, 2009 18:55:05
I'm with Leah. Trying to fix all life is trying to play God. How can we provide all the answers when we don't even know the questions?
James Pinner
Joined: Jan 11, 2012
Posts: 3
Aug 01, 2012 10:04:42
80% of the earths atmosphere is Nitrogen (N2) gas
Bacteria and fungi make atmospheric nitrogen available to the plants they associate with.
N-fixing fungi are called Mycorrhizal fungi
N-fixing bacteria also are found in soil.
Mycorrhizal fungi associate with roots. The fungi form nodules on the roots providing nitrogen to the plant to make proteins. The plant in turn feeds the Mycorrhizal fungi with sugars produced through photosynthesis.
This is cool!!!
Plants up to 80% of the energy is used to feed soil organisms. These organisms work as extensions of the roots. Fungi create networks underground between all the plants. If one plant is in need the fungi will feed it from the energy from the nearby plants.
Not all plants have n-fixing associations... So where do they get the nitrogen the need to make proteins
All plants contain nitrogen in the form of proteins, but N-fixing plants have much higher concentrations. When they die or leaves fall to the ground. Soil organisms break them down (bacteria and fungi). Nematodes, protozoa, bugs, worms, etc. in turn eat the Bacteria and fungi. They then turn it in to plant available nitrogen.
Alex Brands
Joined: Jul 25, 2011
Posts: 53
Aug 01, 2012 12:13:02
Mycorrhizal fungi do not form nodules and do not fix nitrogen. They may facilitate nitrogen uptake from the soil, and may associate with nitrogen fixing bacteria, but I don't believe there is any documented case of Mycorrhizal fungi fixing nitrogen.
James Pinner
Joined: Jan 11, 2012
Posts: 3
Aug 01, 2012 20:54:11
Well Mycorrhizal fungi host n-fixing bacteria. So it is the bacteria that fixes nitrogen, but you still need the fungi to host the bacteria. I apologize for not being clear.
David Buchan
Joined: Mar 26, 2013
Posts: 11
Location: Gent, Belgium
Apr 17, 2013 16:54:58
During their active growth, plants are constantly exuding soluble
matter (so including nitrogen) and more or less giving it away to the great hungry microbial community. In addition plants are constantly growing new roots and the finer roots tend to have short lifetimes (think of how grasses produce so much underground biomass in a single season - this is mainly due to fine root turnover), so living plants are constantly contributing readily-decomposable organic matter to the soil all the time. Although some legumes like beans and chickpeas may divert a large fraction of their fixed nitrogen into the grains - the reason they're so rich in nitrogen - most legumes contain a higher concentration of N in their biomass than most other plants, so they will always be providing some nitrogen to the soil in their rhizosphere zone (the extent of their root system).
There are a number of scientific studies which have shown that legumes intercropped with grains benefited the grain crop during their active growing period i.e. without the legumes being mowed or tilled in. Similarly a Master's student of mine from Zambia studied the effect of Faidherba trees (an african savannah tree similar to acacias) on soil nitrogen levels and found the beneficial effect on crop yields (400% increase in maize yield under the canopies of these trees!) was due to the trees themselves, and not just a result of N-rich leaves falling down to from a thick litter just before the maize growing season (we determined this by applying Faidherba mulch to soil outside the tree canopy - still much less nitrogen enrichment than soil from under the canopy from which litter had been removed..). There's not a great deal of studies about these processes out there, as it's kind of technically difficult to study how a leguminous tree influences the belowground nitrogen economy without adversely affecting the tree itself. However, based on the little evidence I have encountered, I would say you can definitely count on legume trees providing extra nitrogen in the area that their roots have explored (to not say exploited), but it won't just be a result of leaf litter fall - that's just a bonus
But it is perhaps important to remember that how much nitrogen a legume fixes varies enormously between and even with species - I've seen studies where a same species of clover had a tenfold difference (50-500 kg N/ha to be specific) in how much nitrogen was fixed! Again estimates are sketchy if existent at all for many species of interest to permies, as it's not easy to measure how much nitrogen a large tree with an enormous root system has fixed in a given year without completely excavating the whole thing. So it could well be that many legume trees may in fact provide very little nitrogen on a yearly basis compared to clovers used as green manures. But no doubt the additive effect over the years of a perennial crop will make up for the lower N fixing ability.
I'm experimenting with different green manures this year, and have also just discovered some black locust growing wild (it's considered an invasive plant here in Belgium) in our young food forest on an alluvial, low-lying wet clay soil, and i'm keen to make the most of it! I have pruned the largest stems down to waist-chest height so i can harvest many young shoots of green growth to use as mulch, as the young trees are located under a large
tree (it was there first) in a more shady position where we haven't planted much else yet. any other thoughts how to make best use of these young black locust trees?
"Be the change you want to see in the world" Ghandi
Rebecca Norman
Joined: Aug 28, 2012
Posts: 689
Location: Ladakh, Indian Himalayas at 10,500 feet, zone 5 or 6
May 01, 2013 10:07:28
Thanks Dave, such an informative post! I always wondered about that.
Black locust sticks -- great firewood and you won't have to split the sticks. Or poles and posts for garden use? Presumably they'll be excessively slow to break down so they won't serve certain purposes of mulch, though they'd shade the soil and all.
Works at a residential alternative high school in the Himalayas
. "Back home" is Cape Cod.
George Meljon
Joined: Jul 28, 2013
Posts: 278
Location: Southern Indiana zone 5b
Feb 28, 2014 07:46:40
Bumping this great thread.
Russ Harrison
Joined: Oct 10, 2013
Posts: 13
Location: Portland - Alsea
Sep 11, 2014 20:08:23
Looking to do a "Permaculture Orchard" here in central coast range Oregon. 20 miles SW of Corvallis.
N-Fixers planned, Siberian Pea shrubs, Goumi, Black locust, Sitka Alder.
Sitka Alder already on the property, easy to propagate, have seeds of Siberian Pea, Comfrey growing wild on a nearby river bank, Goumi & Black Locust, I will have to buy.
Any opinions on what will be the best, My plan is to
all of these varieties and see what works best. But any info from someone with experience ion this would be appreciated.
subject: Nitrogen Fixing Plants
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Leonard Nimoy
Leonard Nimoy.....an amazing man that brought so much joy and fun in all our lives playing Spock in the Star Trek: Original Series and directing many movies such as Three Men and a Baby passed away early today. He was 83 years old. He did have some health problems namely chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. He is going to be greatly missed. I know I am going to be going home and crying my eyes out and watching as many Star Trek episodes as I can see tonight in honor of this man. Even though I have never met him, I consider him my friend for the everything he had shown us in Star Trek and in his Books I am Not Spock and I am Spock. Anyone who loved Star Trek is going to feel their heart breaking today. Going to miss you, you green blooded hobgoblin!! Live Long and Prosper my friend.


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"Again, Mila, this is just a prop restaurant window, I don't actually have any cheeseburgers back here."
12 hotdog with cheese, 5 fries, and a diet coke please.
How the F is this FAT! Are you looking at her legs and butt. They look great. Her back is toned. Looks like she's been doing yoga.


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Forest Blackwell falls for his enchanting young companion and takes his relationship with her to a whole new level. Will everything be okay? or will everything he did to make her happy just go to waste? View table of contents...
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Other writing by JJC Love at Last? Another lesson gone wrong Romace in Medieval times Can't think of one yet! HELP! Life of a Queen That one tiny Kiss
Romance, Love, School, Hate, Friends, Death, Friendship, Family, Drama, High, Life, Fiction, Girl, Boy, Teen, Pain, Vampire, Abuse, Fantasy, Marriage, Best, Hurt, Kiss, Young, Lust, Humor, Betrayal, Mystery, Relationships, New, Adult, Secrets, Story, Vampires


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The Magazine
The 'Science' of Same-Sex Marriage
Apr 1, 2013, Vol. 18, No. 28 • By ANDREW FERGUSON, FOR THE EDITORS
The list of amici contains several names that will be familiar to anyone whose has had the bad habit of following American politics. Beyond their political coloration, which in many instances seems quite changeable, they do present a typical Washington motley: underemployed lobbyists, society hostesses, TV gasbags, defenestrated politicians, and political hangers-on, most of them draping themselves in the phony-baloney job titles that only our preposterous political culture can pretend to endow with authority ("adviser," "consultant," "commentator," "advocate"). In other cases there are references to real jobs—former special assistants, speechwriters, undersecretaries—that the amici once held and abandoned several administrations ago, when the world was young—and before their moral and constitutional views had progressed to the state of exquisite sensitivity that now drives them to lay their opinions before the High Court.
Nobody will be surprised to learn that these opinions are not terribly well informed. Indeed the only thing the amici seem informed by is the impress of our country's most up-to-the-minute intellectual fashion. Inevitably they rely, innocent and wide-eyed, on the same inconclusive social science that Kass and Mansfield warn against. The amici are not a skeptical or penetrating lot. The brief makes the obvious point that science offers no evidence of the harm that gay marriage may do; they do not make the equally obvious and complementary point that science offers no evidence of the good that supporters insist gay marriage will do for its couples, its children, or the larger society.
Their brief also vigorously invokes the advantages offered by marriage, as currently defined. And these advantages are real and well documented by social scientists of all stripes. The amici attribute such benefits to the stability that state-sanctioned marriage bestows on families, which is also true, as far as it goes. But you can't help but wonder: If stability between same-sex couples is the issue at hand—the great social good we seek—why not institute civil unions that are as binding as the marriage contract, and avoid the radical social experiment of redefining marriage?
Well, the amici say, marriage is unique. And they're right again. Marriage is many things, all at once—much more than a simple mechanism for stability between husband and wife. The institution that social science has been studying so exhaustively for so many years is of a singular kind, with singular features. It is an ancient practice grooved by tradition and myth, shaped by social expectations as old as civilization. It arises from the natural sexual complementarity of woman and man, and formalizes the possibility of procreation and the renewal of life.
There's no way of knowing what combination of these singular features of marriage confers which of its demonstrated advantages, culturally and psychologically. We do know, however, that if the state suddenly creates the institution of gay marriage by fiat, the result will lack most of the features that make marriage unique—and uniquely beneficial. It will not be the same institution that has won the unanimous endorsement of social scientists. It will be a novel and revolutionary institution owing its existence to the devaluation of an old and settled one. Should we assume that the former will confer the same social and personal benefits as the latter, the two being different in such fundamental ways? The only honest answer—the only intellectually respectable answer—is, Who knows?
Which brings us back to the central point that Mansfield and Kass make in their compelling brief: We don't know what the consequences of gay marriage will be. (We do suspect that such a thing will be less socially divisive if enacted by popular will than by the say-so of judges.) Social science is all but mute on the subject and will have nothing useful to tell us for decades. Lacking objective evidence, suspicious of a rising political hysteria, wary of hidden motives, and unmoved by social blackmail, we would do well to submit to humility, deference, discretion, modesty—all those virtues that conservatives are said to prize. If nothing else, these should be sufficient to stay the judges' hand, and to let the people themselves decide, if a decision must be made, when or whether tradition is to be disowned.
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Front Page » Archives » September 2004 »" Articles by Brad Friedman "
  w/ Brad & Desi
  w/ Brad & Desi
  w/ Brad & Desi
Just 10 cases of in-person impersonation in all 50 states since 2000...
VIDEO: 'Rise of the Tea Bags'
Brad interviews American patriots...
'Democracy's Gold Standard'
Hand-marked, hand-counted ballots...
GOP Voter Registration Fraud Scandal 2012...
The Secret Koch Brothers Tapes...
What is with these Rightwingers? Why are they such hypocrites?
Here's David Drier (pictured at right with some friends), a fine upstanding Republican U.S. Congressman from California, co-chair of Bush's California Campaign, and a FOX News favorite! He has voted against various gay causes, yet --- according to the Conservative Blogger, BoyFromTroi, and as reported at blogACTIVE, Mr. Drier is the next Anti-Gay Homosexual to come out of the Republican closet! (Well, to be pushed out anyway.) We support you Congressman Drier! Though it'd be nice if you voted similarly to the way that you apparently live your private life!
And then there's George W. Bush, who, like his father, is trying to see a Flag Desecration amendment added to the U.S. Constitution just before the Presidential election. Never mind the anti-conservative notion of writing one new restriction after another into our Constitution, it looks like Mr. Bush may just find himself in big trouble if the amendment should ever pass! That's Mr. Bush on the left desecrating a United States flag! I, for one, am appalled! Why does the "President" hate the Flag of these great United States?
For those of you paying attention, the U.S. was in Vietnam for more than five full years before we'd suffered our 1,000th casualty.
Meanwhile in Iraq, in just under a year and a half, we've already lost 1,009.
Also, for the record, from the start of the war ("Shock and Awe!") through Bush's announced "end of major hostilities" ("Mission Accomplished!") the U.S. had lost a total of 139 troops.
Since handing over fake "sovereignty" at the beginning of July through today, we have lost 155 troops.
How will it end? What's Bush's exit strategy? Is there one? Is there any way out? You tell me.
Source: Iraq Coalition Casualty Count
The conservative Seattle Times, who endorsed Bush in 2000, realize now how wrong they were and are instead endorsing Kerry this year!
The Bush presidency is not what we had in mind. Our endorsement of John Kerry is not without reservations, but he is head and shoulders above the incumbent.
Wow! I guess they really are conservatives! Unlike the bulk of the Fake Conservatives we see commenting so frequently here on the BRAD BLOG and elsewhere out there in the America Hatin' World of Rightwing Nutballs. There's hope for this country yet!
From today's NY Times article on CIA Director appointee, Porter Goss:
He gives Bush too much credit.
Investigative journalist (yes, there are still a few) Greg Palast reports on the top-secret memo they received at the BBC from sources back in November 2001 about the "suspected terrorist organization" in the USA known as "the World Assembly of Muslim Youth (WAMY). The organization supported various youth activities and was funded by the Saudi's and two members of the bin Laden family.
BBC obtained video from Florida of one of the WAMY activities other than Soccer and Softball which the group organized; "a speech exhorting kids on the heroism of suicide bombings and hostage takings."
The Palast report describes the directives recieved by the CIA, the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) and the FBI to "back off the Saudis" both when Bush took office, and over the years that followed 9/11:
Yes, Bill Clinton was also a bit too tender toward the oil men of Arabia. But this you should know: In his last year in office, Clinton sent two delegations to the Gulf to suggest that the Royal family crack down on "charitable donations" from their kingdom to the guys who blew up our embassies.
But when a failed Texas oil man took over the White House in January 2001, demands on the Saudis to cut off terror funding simply stopped.
In November 2001, as the dust still hung in the air in NYC, the BBC ran a report on WAMY and their connection to the Saudis and the bin Laden family. The Bush Administration refused comment for that report.
It wasn't until May of this year (2004!) that the FBI finally got around to raiding WAMY!
Why now this belated move on the bin Laden's former operation? Why not right after the September 11 attack? This year's FBI raid occurred just days after an Islamist terror assault in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. Apparently, messin' with the oil sheiks gets this Administration's attention. Falling towers in New York are only for Republican convention photo ops.
Ouch...Tough, but true to anyone who bothers to look past the veil of Bushist Propoganda to notice what these PR All-Stars really did (or in this case, didn't) when it comes to their failed "War on Terror".
Palast concludes:
Ought not to know?
What else ought we not to know, Mr. President? And when are we supposed to forget it?
Thanks to Johnhp for the tip-off on this one! See the full story, and while you're there, be sure to take a look at the trailer for Palast's upcoming Documentary on the Bush Family, and the systematic purging of minority voters in Florida during the 2000 Elections!
Bush/Cheney: Anything to Win
For those who can't read, or have trouble understanding our earlier post on this, please click the photo below for an audio recitation of the Many Flips and embarrassing Flops of George W. Bush.
(Thanks again to BRAD BLOG Soldier Against Hypocrisy, Alexi!)
The case against Bush's failed execution of the War on Iraq is becoming clearer every day.
Best put this morning by Pro-Iraq Warrior, Andrew Sullivan, who said today:
And in regards to the damning report today from the U.S. Marine Corps general in charge of western Iraq that Fallujah was completely bungled by the upper Civilian Command (after Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the boys have gone out of their way to suggest they wouldn't make the Vietnam mistake of getting in the way of Military Command on the ground), Sullivan --- a longtime BRAD BLOG "Intellectually Honest Republican" Award winner --- was also on the money:
Now just imagine if a president Gore had done such a thing. Do you think Republicans would have stayed mum?
Sullivan's last question there is a doozy. Just imagine if Al Gore had executed this "War on Terror" in exactly the same fashion and as disastrously. Imagine what the Republicans would be saying with 1000+ dead, no WMD's to be found, no exit strategy anywhere on the horizon, and if "insurgents" in Fallujah were now using the arms we gave them against us now as they are! Can you imagine?!
The blatant and outrageous hypocrisy at work amongst the apologists on the Right at this moment is surely at an all time high (or low). Just incredible.
Along with a report that 110 had been killed in Iraq yesterday (WaPo puts the number as "at least 80 civilians killed") including a Palestinian Journalist killed by US Forces from an Apache helicopter as the camera was rolling (video here), and at least five major cities now completely controlled by "insurgents", things seem to be disintegrating there quickly.
Fortunately the Bush Corporation has an excellent PR department, so anything that gets through the PR filter to you and me between now and November 2nd can be assumed to be much worse than it's reported. But, for those of us trying to pay attention to the black hole where we're pumping so much blood and treasure, there are many hints lately of what's really going on there (never mind Afghanistan which is similarly falling apart...not that it was ever "together" before we pulled out and moved to Iraq).
Here's just a few of the items from yesterday in Iraq, courtesy of "Today in Iraq":
Pay attention. This is still a hot war with injuries, deaths and attacks on US troops as high now as they've ever>/i> been! Bush/Cheney would very much like Americans to look elsewhere between now and November. Don't be fooled...again.
_In 2000, Bush argued against new military entanglements and nation building. He's done both in Iraq.
_He opposed a Homeland Security Department, then embraced it.
_He opposed creation of an independent Sept. 11 commission, then supported it. He first refused to speak to its members, then agreed only if Vice President Dick Cheney came with him.
_Bush argued for free trade, then imposed three-year tariffs on steel imports in 2002, only to withdraw them after 21 months.
_Last month, he said he doubted the war on terror could be won, then reversed himself to say it could and would.
_A week after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, Bush said he wanted Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." But he told reporters six months later, "I truly am not that concerned about him." He did not mention bin Laden in his hour-long convention acceptance speech.
"I'm a war president," Bush told NBC's "Meet the Press" on Feb. 8. But in a July 20 speech in Iowa, he said: "Nobody wants to be the war president. I want to be the peace president."
Bush keeps revising his Iraq war rationale: The need to seize Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction until none were found; liberating the Iraqi people from a brutal dictator; fighting terrorists in Iraq not at home; spreading democracy throughout the Middle East. Now it's a safer America and a safer world.
"No matter how many times Senator Kerry flip-flops, we were right to make America safer by removing Saddam Hussein from power," he said last week in Missouri.
And no doubt the lemmings then started chanting, "Flip-flop, flip-flop..."
George W. Bush!
Keeping America Safe for Complete Blithering Idiots Who'll Repeat Anything They're Told
Once again, The Onion --- like the The Daily Show, another fake news operation --- gets it more right than the "not-fake" news operations...
If you stop by, be sure not to miss their other spot-on story of the week: "Hundreds Of Republicans Injured In Rush To Discredit Kerry"!
(via Andrew Sullvan)
A Federal Judge in Lincoln, Nebraska on Wednesday became the third such judge to rule that the GOP/George W. Bush Late-Term Abortion Ban is unconstitutional.
The new law, struck down yet again, is similar to one that was struck down four years ago. Like that one, this one also refused to take into account the health of the woman requiring the procedure. In other words, Big Government Republicans tried to ban Medical Doctors from performing procedures that may be medically necessary for a United States citizen.
Perhaps I should also ask why Republicans hate United States citizens so much!
The U.S. District Judge Richard Kopf -- a Ronald Reagan appointee! -- "ruled that Congress ignored the most experienced doctors in determining that the banned procedure would never be necessary --- a finding he found 'unreasonable.'", according to CNN.
I don't care what Religious Fundamentalism you prescribe to, such bills forced into law via willfull avoidance of scientific fact, medical judgement, the health of the citizenry, and the will of the judiciary (including the Supreme Court of the United States who had previously knocked down the similar bill) by Activist and Extremist Legislators and Executives is anything but "conservative".
Apparently it'll require a loss this November (God willing) for the real conservatives in this country to have a chance at reclaiming their party from the TheoCons who've hijacked it and are trying to ram every single breach of the U.S. Constitution they can down our throats while they still are in power. Though one wonders if the Fake Conservatives that control the GOP have now gone so far off the deep end, that the once Grand Ole Party may never be able to reclaim itself from the charlatans that now own it.
Yes, it's rare, but BRAD BLOG readers know that from time to time we find Republicans with some measure of intellectual honesty and recognize them for their courage in doing the right thing against all odds. Given all the other Republicans, with something less than either intellectualism or honesty that we highlight here regularly (and those who highlight themselves in our Comments sections with a similar lack of distinction), it seems only fair to point out when a Republican outs himself as having intellectual honesty even at the risk of incurring the wrath of the usually lockstepping GOP.
The latest winner of this coveted honor is Richie Robb, Republican from West Virginia who ran in the May Gubernatorial Primary there and who has been appointed by his party as an official Elector for George W. Bush. Only problem? According to Politics1.com, Robb has no intention, and neither is he legally bound, to actually cast his electoral vote in favor of Bush...
If the election is another close one, Robb's one electoral vote could make the difference this year! So congratulations Mr. Robb! You've earned the coveted and rare BRAD BLOG "Intellectual Honest Conservative" Award! I'm sure you'll not let us down this November!
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I cannot enter coupon codes. As soon as I click the coupon tab in store settings I get the message:
Fatal error: Cannot use string offset as an array in /public_html/handpaintedsilkscarves.com.au/wp-content/plugins/marketpress/marketpress.php on line 5607
Line 5607 $discount = (isset($coupons[$new_coupon_code]['discount']) && $coupons[$new_coupon_code]['discount_type'] == 'amt') ? round($coupons[$new_coupon_code]['discount'], 2) : $coupons[$new_coupon_code]['discount'];
I'm running WordPress 3.4.2 and Marketpress 2.6.2
Hope you can help.
Cheers, M.


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Can you say "Pump and Dump"?
We've all been here before. If you have the urge to buy before it goes higher, go lie down until it passes. EEStor said "It will take a lot of work" which is what they have said before and it translates into "years of work".
Still, one might think that with Obama's comments on developing better batteries ZNN would be up a bit today. Apparently no one believes Obama.
Lots of pie in the sky promises but no money to carry them out. Where will the money come from? Taxes! Higner Taxes, Fewer Loopholes which means fewer deductions and higher taxes. Fewer credits and more subsidies which mean HIGHER TAXES!
Obama is a dreamer, a marxist, and an arrogant twit. He actually thinks Socialism is the way to prosperity! History has proved it is the road to ruin.
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Somebody looks to be "Wide Awake."
Pop superstar Katy Perry started her Monday morning off right with a hot cup of coffee and a beautiful sunrise in Miami.
Standing on her hotel balcony, the 29-year-old "Roar" singer showed off her fit and fabulous body in a blue bikini with sunglasses and red nail polish.
Although an insider exclusively told E! News an engagement between Perry and boyfriend John Mayer is "inevitable," the singer was seen without a ring on in the early morning hours.
Fans of Perry, better known as Katy Kats, also started their day off with great news when the singer announced The Prismatic World Tour. Featuring special guests Icona Pop, the tour will kick off in the United Kingdom next year around May.
For fans closer to home in the states, your dates will be announced shortly.
"DON'T WORRY – more GLOBAL tour dates coming soon! I can't wait to get closer to ALL of you than ever before! #THEPRISMATICWORLDTOUR," Perry tweeted.
The singer won't be staying in Miami for long.
Perry is expected to return to Los Angeles this weekend to open the American Music Awards with her new single, "Unconditionally."
With this jam-packed schedule, we hope she has a little bit of time to rest and relax.


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Az Cardinals New Logo
Started by DuDeR MaN , Jan 27 2005 09:45 PM
11 replies to this topic
Posted 27 January 2005 - 09:45 PM
you can see the newest version on the right of course. New Jerseys are also to be shown soon.
...this is probably the best thing to come out of the cardinals in years, lol.
Posted 28 January 2005 - 02:20 AM
It just looks more angry than the last one
Posted 05 February 2005 - 05:58 AM
looks like temple
Posted 07 February 2005 - 08:57 AM
Not much of a diff but it does a little more modern.
Posted 14 February 2005 - 09:02 AM
Todd McFarlane is a valley resident and he offered up his version and it was pretty cool looking.
Check it out....
Check it out....
Posted 16 February 2005 - 04:26 AM
it extremely jagged. And the eye doesn't look right. Still cool though.
Doesn't matter, Arizona is almost like a joke team. Alot of people is arizona are not originally from there. I went to an eagles-cardnials game a couple years ago when i was visiting out there. Anyway, long story short, I saw more eagle jerseys in the stands than i saw cardinals. Not to put down the few that are true fans to them but seriously the fan base around them is so smallthat it doesn't matter.
Doesn't matter, Arizona is almost like a joke team. Alot of people is arizona are not originally from there. I went to an eagles-cardnials game a couple years ago when i was visiting out there. Anyway, long story short, I saw more eagle jerseys in the stands than i saw cardinals. Not to put down the few that are true fans to them but seriously the fan base around them is so smallthat it doesn't matter.
Posted 17 February 2005 - 12:43 AM
Just if jake was still there.....:-(
Posted 17 February 2005 - 05:29 AM
QUOTE(urine @ Feb 16 2005, 11:49 PM)
How can you even read this thread???
You're blind remember?
Or is part of your condition being very forgetful as well?
The team needs a HUGE revamp and sadly a new logo isn't gonna be the solution. If they really want a new looks why not get a few decent players and win some games. Now THAT'd be impressive.
Posted 19 February 2005 - 08:09 AM
Actually, as a Phoenix resident and Cardinals ticket holder, I can say that the Cards have a ton of stuff going their way. They have a very talented defense that only has an inexperience problem. David Macklin was impressive in each game he played. Adran Wilson is one of the best safeties in the league. Karlos Dansby is one hell of a LB and Darnell Dockett is gonna be a man to be feared. Oh yeah, there's also Bertrand Berry the Pro Bowler. The defense on this team is gonna kick some ass next year. But, the offensive coordinator last year was horrible. He changed his gameplan more than Paris Hilton changes dresses. And they have changed that problem by hiring someone else. McCown is a decent thrower if given the chance to go downfield. His long distance tosses were impressive, granted he does have Boldin, Fitgerald, and Bryant was showing signs of a solid 3rd receiver. Arizona lost Emmitt Smith. Big Deal. The real problem is finding a guy that can even compare to the Emmitt at the end of his career. Should be solved in either the FA or College Draft. We all know that Marcel is not the answer. Obafemi Ayanbedejo will be a great player once he learns that fullbacks need to block and sometimes catch. Otherwise, that dude would run over a Caterpillar. As far as OL, there are some holes, but not even close to the worst. Denny Green will get this team in shape and by 2008 the Cards will be Superbowl contenders. Oh, did I forget to say, "I plan on sitting in the new Cardinals stadium in 2008, watching the Cards win the Superbowl."? BTW, I am a Jags fan, but think these Cardinals have some talent and the heart to get there. Right after the Jags win it all. HAHAHAHAHAHA.
Posted 19 February 2005 - 01:56 PM
QUOTE(dizturbd @ Feb 19 2005, 02:15 AM)
well you proved my point about cardinal fans.
Posted 19 February 2005 - 08:01 PM
Yeah, I know the fans suck. There was more Rams fans at the game at the end of the season than Cards fans. Even the Suns aren't selling out right now and they are tied with the best record in the NBA. Oh well, I like it because the tickets aren't difficult to get and they are fairly reasonable. Plus, the weather is always great. I am not from Phoenix and there aren't many that are. I still like watching Cardinals football and cheering for them. I will cheer for them all season long next season, except for the one weekend when the Jags are in town. That's gonna be a great time.
Posted 28 April 2005 - 06:54 PM
Im not a cards fan or anything but damn that logo looks pissed. Trying to be a badass team this year. Guess you gotta change everything after only winning two games last year.
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Resolved questions
Is there any software which would just display the English meaning of Japanese words when I hover my mouse on the word? NOt Clicking just by hovering, the display of the English meaning should pop up.
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Yes, there is Rikaichan. I don't know what browser you're using but it certainly works with Firefox, Thunderbird and Seamonkey.
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The best Loving Hut in Indonesia!Posted on 05 / 03 / 2014
Well, all Indonesian Loving Huts are very good, but this one was somewhat different, in a positive way. The interior was very simple but the atmosphere was very good. The place seemed to be very popular with locals. The staff were very friendly and relaxed, but very efficient.
The portions were huge and the prices were low.
Definitely worth visiting.


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Bad timing...again. ... more
Headline envy. ... more
Terror. ... more
Saudi Arabia Threatens to Sue Anyone Who Compares Their Justice System to ISIS | Christine Rousselle
Suspect in Custody After Shooting at Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood UPDATE: Three People Have Died, Shooter Identified | Christine Rousselle
Active Shooter Near Planned Parenthood Location in Colorado UPDATE: Suspect Has Surrendered to Police | Christine Rousselle
Unreal: Anti-Gun DC Police Chief Urges Public to 'Take Down' Active Gunman If Possible | Leah Barkoukis


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American Ecology Corporation
News about American Ecology Corporation, including commentary and archival articles published in The New York Times.
American Ecology will ask its shareholders to approve a new director next month. The company, which cleans up radioactive and other hazardous wastes, notes his close relationship with the federal government, a big customer. Stephen A. Romano,...
April 10, 2005, Sunday
American Ecology Set to Close a Plant
The American Ecology Corporation, which runs hazardous-waste plants, expects to lay off about 20 percent of its work force after closing a Tennessee plant that processes radioactive material. Sixty-three jobs will be eliminated at the Oak Ridge,...
December 28, 2002, Saturday
Plan to Build Nuclear Dump In the Mojave Appears Dead
A plan to build a dump for low-level nuclear waste in the Southern California desert appears dead after a judge ruled that Interior Secretary Bruce Babbitt had acted properly in rescinding transfer of the site to the state. The ruling by Judge...
April 4, 1999, Sunday
Market Place; Some say 'not in my backyard' while others see opportunity
IF Hollywood remade "The Graduate" today, the advice whispered into the ear of the young man starting out his career might not be "plastics" but "nuclear waste." And the American Ecology Corporation, a Houston-based hazardous waste handler, appears...
February 2, 1993, Tuesday
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Large x Denim x PuferGraffiti // Wednesday, November 19, 2014
It's that three hit autorack combo by Large, Denim and Pufer, that will leave you dazed and confused trying to figure out what really did happen.
Denim VTSGraffiti // Tuesday, July 15, 2014
Always rock Denim jeans when painting trains in yards to avoid flies, mosquitoes ticks and all other wild life that pose a threat to you comfort while enjoying painting.
Navy8 x DenimGraffiti // Monday, May 13, 2013
Just two dudes, making the support walls underneath a bridge look brighter and better. How could anyone be mad at that?
Life-Sized Newsstand Made from Denim by DenimuJuxtapoz // Monday, May 06, 2013
Sweden-based artist Denimu (aka Ian Berry), known for his work constructing incredible scenes purely out of used denim and jeans, has installed a life sized New York newsstand at the Shooting Gallery in San Francisco. Berry began experimenting with textiles, manipulating color and form with bleach, stencils and glue. His work is painstakingly cut, stitched, and pasted together.
Very Tricky SorceryGraffiti // Monday, June 18, 2012
The train clean up and redecorating crew, Denim and Large, hard at work to serve your pupils.
Large x DenimGraffiti // Monday, May 21, 2012
Here are pastel color matching, letter complimenting pieces on a boxcar from Large and Denim.
DenimGraffiti // Sunday, March 11, 2012
A Denim freight takes a break before it's long journey across the American landscape.
VtsexyGraffiti // Wednesday, August 10, 2011
Dirty Denim Delivers Dynamic Destruction…Duhhhhh….
DenimGraffiti // Tuesday, August 02, 2011
I heard this dude wears $300 vintage denim jeans while trudging through mud to rock a piece. That's just what I heard, dedicated to denim.
APEX "Indigo" at White WallsJuxtapoz // Wednesday, May 18, 2011
San Francisco-based graffiti and fine artist, APEX, will be opening a solo show, Indigo, at White Walls Gallery in SF this Saturday, May 21. As one of the mainstays in the San Francisco graffiti culture, many people are looking forward to APEX' new body of work. A video trailer is after the jump . . .


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Downton Abbey Season 4 Scoop: Romance for Mary and Tom? Lasting Love for Edith? Shake-Up for [Spoiler]? Plus — Is Season 5 the End?
Downton Abbey's Michelle Dockery Talks Mary's Life Post-Matthew: New Friend, New Romance?
Will Downton Abbey soon close its doors? Will Mary's broken heart mend? And will Edith finally find love?
The cast and executive producers of the hit PBS drama gathered at the Television Critics Assoc. press tour in Beverly Hills on Tuesday night to unveil the first footage from Season 4, debuting Jan. 5. They also offered up some juicy teasers about what's in store for Lady Mary, Edith, Daisy and the rest of the residents of the famous estate.
RELATED | Michelle Dockery on Dan Stevens Leaving Downton Abbey and Mary's Future
A LOOK AHEAD | A sneak peek at the new season featured an emotionally distraught Mary throwing down her napkin at dinner and remarking that after everything Matthew went through in the war, it's a cruel twist of fate that he would perish in a car accident. Seeing how much pain her granddaughter is in, the Dowager Countess tells Mary, "You must choose either death or life." The matriarch also takes it upon herself to find a purpose for Mary: She enlists Tom to instruct the widowed mom in the running of the estate since she or her son own half of Downton. Also spotted in the clip package: Edith glams up to have dinner with her editor at a posh London restaurant; Rose tries to recruit Anna as her chaperon so she can attend an event; and everyone is atwitter over Valentine's Day.
WORKING GIRL | Edith isn't just flirting with her editor. "She is still involved with the paper [as a journalist], and it is a lot more complicated than that," said her portrayer Laura Carmichael, who thinks of her character as "the Carrie Bradshaw of the '20s." "The death of Matthew really affects the whole family," she continued. "So when we start, she hasn't seen Michael Gregson for some time because the family's been in mourning. … Their relationship is interesting and different to any of the others." Executive producer Gareth Neame added that it is a "very different season" for Edith, full of "very active stories."
MENDING HEARTS | "There are a number of new characters," teased Neame. "There's certainly some eligible bachelors." As Michelle Dockery hinted to TVLine, "It's important for [Mary] to eventually move on, so [Tom Cullen's character] is a potential love interest." One person who won't be wooing Mary is Branson. "We're aware that there is suspicions about Tom and Mary's relationship," said the actress. "They are very much friends. He is her brother-in-law still. They become close because of what they've both been through. But romantically, I don't think it's going anywhere."
RELATED | Downton Abbey Season 4 Casts Paul Giamatti as Cora's Brother
MOTHER AND SON | "[Mary] was never going to be a very maternal mother," admitted Dockery. "But also, she's within the aristocracy. They didn't see their kids very much. You don't see much interaction between the baby and Mary. To begin with, it's hard to bond with the baby because she's going through the grief, and she looks at him and sees Matthew. It's a slow process with motherhood."
SERVANT ROMANCE | Mrs. Hughes and Carson won't give in to their feelings just yet. "We still have a very nice working relationship," shared Phyllis Logan. "We still have spats. We occasionally get to drink a glass of sherry." Meanwhile, Daisy is "still in that bratty teenage stage with Ivy," who's attracting a lot of male attention, said Sophie McShera.


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The League will be PRAYING for LA/NY
I think the NHL doesn't care between LA and Chi. Both are great for them, in fact I think CHI might get better ratings. It's the RAGS they really want from the east and I'm afraid they are going to get it.
Edited by John Wensink, 19 May 2014 - 09:56 AM.


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The Finale
- Dedicated to finaldecade
Now watch carefully, Ladies and Gents,
As I pick up the pieces of a life once unkempt.
Gone are the days when I used to please.
Now I do it all for me.
For I am no longer
Just one more girl on this stage we call Life.


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This was a last minute cake for my son. He is going into law enforcement and this week is his first week of college.
CakeCentral.com is the world's largest cake community for cake decorating professionals and enthusiasts.
(if this is a private computer)
Register now for
Yes please, register now!


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As 2011 gets going, it seems that the burger business is booming.
A few months ago, USA Today asked me to pick a burger restaurant in Washington state for its "Great American Bites" series. This was a difficult challenge, but as I wasn't necessarily charged with selecting the best burger, I opted for an iconic experience in choosing Pick-Quick Drive In (which will soon open a branch in Auburn, the first expansion beyond the Fife location).
Many places talk about the toppings they put on their burgers, so I was interested in trying BuiltBurger's patties, which feature flavors on the inside. Previously available via shipping only (nationwide), owner David Makuen recently decided to open a storefront where the Financial District meets Pioneer Square.
Enter BuiltBurger and you simply walk up to the counter where you'll find the menu on the wall. Plenty of patties for your choosing; with the variety available, I recommend doing a sampling of three LittleBuilt sliders as a way of finding your favorite(s). Mine turned out to be a beef burger mixed with long-braised short-rib (with horseradish aioli and greens), though the Sriracha special had nice bite to it, complemented by refreshing pickled vegetables.
You'll find burgers made with pork, pastrami, chorizo, chicken, lamb, and even a vegetarian option. Based on my burger binging this year, I've come to realize that I ultimately prefer a slightly charred ground beef patty that falls apart in the mouth (as compared, let's say, to pork-filled patties that have a slippery, more sausage-like texture), but BuiltBurger offers good quality and fun variety.
The fresh sides are a healthy bonus. Salads the day of my visit were either spinach with pear, cranberry, and almonds, or jicama with orange, cojita cheese, and almonds. More likely, though, you'll choose some potato action on the side. While the fries are fine (they're hand-cut), I urge you to try the sensual potato beignets with a dip or two. Curious to know what makes them sensual?


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THE SECRET NASA TRANSMISSIONS #2 - UFOs In Space
- Uploaded by Will-Ease on Aug 5, 2013
- Views: 965
Posted by permission only! From UFOTV®, accept no imitations. This FREE MOVIE is the sequel to the Legendary MOVIE - "The Secret NASA Transmissions #1 The Smoking Gun" and presents further details about UFO VIDEOS taken by NASA Space Shuttle Cameras and the facts around a secret independent study to monitor the digital video cameras on all NASA Space Shuttle missions which has yielded startling results. Martyn Stubbs recorded over 2,500 hours of live NASA video transmissions over a period of five years. Some of this footage shows what appears to be intelligently controlled UFOs caught on NASA's own video cameras. This "historic" video footage and the story that lay behind its discovery can now be revealed. The independent surveillance of NASA video cameras and ensuing research by Martyn Stubbs revolutionized UFO research with NASA Space Shuttle cameras. This film remains today an important source of UFO research history. NOW ON DVD - The Secret NASA Transmissions - SPECIAL EDITION 4-DVD Set - LOADED with over 390 minutes of Bonus Information, Cat# U422. Go to http://www.UFOTV.com. ©2013 UFOTV®, a UFO Video, Inc. Company


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Traded my old white CB7 for this one on Sunday Jan. 5th 2014, 3 days later slid into a curb so she was down for a week. This year came with oem red courtesy lights, factory lsd, factory sunroof, rear disc, and some other goodies. I plan to make it a canyon/mountain and occasional drift car. And have a show set up as well. This was my dream car so she is a keeper for sure! But onto the queen / hoe.
Gotta roll the fenders more to make those fit, 15x10 -38 in the rear and -25 in the front. Yes, negative, no mistake haha.
~ 6mge Motor Swap
~ W58 5 Speed Swap
~ Bosozoku Pipes, Not Victory Pipes. 1.25" dual piping the whole way from Header Back
~ Cone filter on stock intake
~ Factory LSD
~ Factory Sunroof
~ Brown Faded OEM Paint
~ Missing one trim piece
~ Flared & Rolled Fenders
~ DDM HID Kit
~ Stock
~ No tray or radio
~ Wink Mirror
Suspension / Wheels:
~ Megan Street Full Coilovers
~ Stock Wheels
~ Custom Made Diamond Racing Steelies, 15x10 -38 rear, -25 Front (Not Installed)
~ Enkei RP01 17x7.5 +32, 17x8 +38
~ 2x OEM Toyota Bottle Caps
~ 2x 14x? +? Meshies
~ Kenwood Speakers??
~ No radio
Future Plans:
~ Straight Pipe 2.5" Header back, Resonator, Apexi Muffler.
~ Rear Sway bar
~ Welded Diff
~ NRG Hub and Deep Dish Steering Wheel
~ Paint
~ Track / Mountain Wheel Set-up
~ Possible Different Exhaust Set-up


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Why were so many characters on Voyager underdeveloped?
View Single Post
August 30 2011, 07:51 PM
The Overlord
Re: Why were so many characters on Voyager underdeveloped?
Jeff O'Connor wrote:
You're in luck then because even Harry Kim wasn't completely one-dimensional and managed to contribute occasionally valuable things!
Such as? The guy got maybe one focus episode in the first season and never made it past ensign. The focus episode wasn't very good and he got less to do as the series went on. Occasionally providing techno babble isn't contributing, because anyone can do that.
There was no real character development with Harry Kim, he never got that moment to prove himself, heck they were planning on killing him off at one point. It seems like they could kill him off, the show wouldn't have been that different. There is no point in investing anything into a character who started as a naive ensign who wanted to go home and seemed to end that way.
Jeff O'Connor wrote:
As I said before, it doesn't necessarily 'excuse' the series. But I've watched enough television (or rather, used to) that I can positively compare Star Trek: Voyager's treatment of its full cast to the majority of television shows I've tried out. To that end I will still say that it 'passed' and I'm not lording over it, I'm merely stating that compared to the vast majority of shows on television it handled its cast decently. That is my opinion of course; YMMV.
What shows are we comparing to Voyager to, the Wire or According to Jim? Frankly there are tons of shows that handle their characters better Voyager, there tons of shows that don't have completely superfluousness characters running around. When compared to some of the really good TV shows we have now, Voyager just left behind in terms of handling characters.
Maybe its less of problem for you, because some of the characters they did focus on Voyager were great, like 7 of 9 and the Doctor, but to me having characters who I left added nothing was pretty annoying, I just hate characters who don't go anywhere.
If you enjoyed the show despite this flaw, that's great, but to me its something that really dragged the show down.
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