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Politics Counts
I wasn't likely to vote for Romney anyway, but this clinches it. Anybody this guy endorses goes to the bottom of my list next to Ralph Nader and Lyndon LaRouche
This is an example of people understanding who will be the next President and their desire to get on the good side. Romney continues to roll and BJU understands the same.
Romney was gov when the Red Sox won the World Series after 96 years of futility. So I guess electing a Morman president isn't that far fetched.
Classic Political Opportunism from a man who claims to be religious. When do we get to put Christ back into Christianity?
What is the surprise, one racist group, endorsing another racist. Bob Jones is well known for being founded by a former Grand Wizard of the KKK. And The Mormons call black people the tribe of Caine with the dark skin and broad noses.
The real religous folks in SC will be with Fred.
Nothing but haters in this blog.
The pot calling the kettle black!
I'm confused. I don't know where I am. Why am I so old and stupid?
Ron Paul - Hope for America
Mitt Romney is our hope for a stronger America.
Romney - the right choice and the right person for President!
Mitt Romney is a plastic wind up doll. No firmly held positions, nothing he won't change his mind on tomorrow. He's a bad version of a new doll...."Chatty Mitty"...just pull the string, you never know what he'll say...loads of fun.
Taylor's trying to block the equally odious Giuliani.
This stuff could be leveraged into a daytime teevee show. "The Freaks".
Couldn't have happened to a better political party.
For the ignorant people posting comments (sorry Reverend, that means you) on this board:
Definition of flip-flop: To change from one position (flip) then back again (flop.)
Politicians flip all the time as education and experience shape a politician's ideologies. Flips are not problematic...in fact we should be pleased when a politician admits he/she was wrong on something and converts...especially on something like abortion. However, when a politician changes a position then changes back, THAT becomes a flip-flop in the "John Kerry" sense of the word and becomes problematic evidence of pandering to all sides.
Thus, no intelligent person can reasonably apply the flip-flop designation to Romney...he hasn't made a round trip change on any issue. He has always supported gay rights and still does. His support of gay rights has always stopped short of supporting gay marriage and still does. If Romney were to convert back into a pro-choice politician - THAT would be a round-trip, 360 degree change and he would deserve the title -- "flip-flopper." This hasn't happened. Every indication is that it won't happen. None of Romney's acts as governor lead us to question his conversion to the pro-life cause (nor do any of his religious beliefs.)
The comment about Romney being a "wind-up doll with no firmly held positions" is just about the stupidest thing I have heard - ever.
This article makes me sad. I went to Bob Jones and am shocked that Dr. Taylor would support Mitt Romney. I can understand him not endorsing Thompson or Guilliani, but giving support to a Mormon doesn't make sense either. Why not support an obviously Christian candidate like Huckabee? The answer is simple. As republicans we would rather support someone we think can beat Hillary, as opposed to voting for someone we can really support. I think this shows weakness, and contributes to the decline of stong Christian values in America. When a dean from a school as fundamental as BJU supports a Mormon, it makes me realize just how weak we are in the Christian community.
Make my vote for Huckabee. Taylor is crazy and just a wacko. One culy endorsing a member of another cult. I am sure Dr. Dobson and others will straighten this out.
Charlie's comment shows us the wisdom of substituting hyperbole for actual analysis. Suggesting that calling Romney a windup doll with no firmly held positions is the stupidest thing I have heard-ever is just silly. Anyone who has followed Mitt's political career over the last 15 years--ever since he first started making noise about challenging Ted Kennedy--knows he is famous for changing his political positions to fit the prevailing winds. True it may not always fit your narrow definition of a flip flopper but that doesn't mean he's been consistent. From abortion to school choice to Ronald Reagan's legacy, Romney's positions have shifted like a sandbar. The lastest best example is his support for Libby's pardon after bragging for the last several years on how he never gave clemency to anyone while governor. There are good things to say about Mitt, but seriously consistency is not one of them. Few people have proclaimed their convictions with more gusto and honored them less in practice (many less ideological politicians have shifted positions over the years but they haven't based their appeal on being ideological warriors in the first place).
"When a dean from a school as fundamental as BJU supports a Mormon, it makes me realize just how weak we are in the Christian community."
Weak? Or out of touch with reality? Huckabee is not electable. In reality, your choice is Hillary, Giuliani, or Mitt. It is quite hypocritical for us as Christians to withhold our support from the only candidate who can overcome Giuliani and Hillary - especially when this candidate agrees politically with everything we stand for. Sure - I'd rather vote for a true Christian - but I am not going to let the religious litmus test cause me to throw away everything the pro-life movement has fought for over the last 30-40 years.
Vote Romney Evangelicalsformitt.com
Mother of Two, you my dear are a bigot. Had a Professor at BYU thrown his support toward an evangelical christian, I assure there would be no shock or sadness. Please insert any other ethnicity or religion into your statements to realize how fundamentaly weak they are. Would you be sad or shocked if it was an African America, or how about a female, Catholic, or maybe a Jew? Where does the line get crossed in who you could allow a christian to support without condemnation?
If Mitt is really smart - he will select Huckabee as his VP.
VP is really what Huckabee is running for anyway.
"True it may not always fit your narrow definition of a flip flopper but that doesn't mean he's been consistent."
I pointed out the true definition of a flip-flopper. At least we agree that definition does not apply to Romney.
I don't fault Romney for getting it wrong on abortion in the beginning of his political career, but I am not going to shun someone who converts to the pro-life cause. If that is how we treat pro-life converts - our movement is doomed.
My kids wont be going to Bob Jones University, a place we were seriously considering. Mitt tries to persuade people that Mormonism is Christian, a fact that Mormonisms founders rejected. We aren't electing a pastor, but we also don't need a leader who spreads confusion.
since when is "pro-gun" a christian stance?
"Mitt tries to persuade people that Mormonism is Christian, a fact that Mormonism's founders rejected."
Sorry -- another example of B.S. that needs correction. Mormons believe in Jesus Christ and that he is the Saviour of the World. They have always considered themselves Christian, and yes even the founders claimed to be Christian.
The failure for the rest of Christianity to acknowledge that Mormons are indeed Christian is not because Mormons don't believe in Jesus Christ as the Saviour - they do. Mormons simply believe differently on some Christian doctrines (such as the Trinity) that have been deemed fundamental to the Christian movement. Thus we do not consider them Christian because they do not measure up to our definition of "Christian." Under the Webster definition of Christian - Mormons fit the definition perfectly.
For that reason - I don't have a problem with Romney calling himself a Christian because I understand the distinction. If Americans as a whole don't understand that distinction - it is our fault not the Mormons.
One last thought:
I liken the attitude towards Romney (by many evangelicals) to the quote from Edmund Burke: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
If you are pro-life - this is happening before your very eyes. Think about this seriously. The Supreme Court has 4 members over 70, plus two more in late 60's. (John Paul Stevens is 87; Scalia is 71; Kennedy is 71; Ginsburg is 74; Souter is 68; and Breyer is 69.) Hillary (if elected) will likely appoint 3-4 more pro-choice justices to the Supreme Court. Giuliani says he won't do so, but his track record shows a history of appointing liberal judges...which concerns me a lot. His continued pro-choice stance is also a big concern.
The Christian GOP base doesn't like Giuliani for that reason; however, (as Mark DeMoss points out) Giuliani is winning because he is the unintended beneficiary of divided Christians' who support the un-electable candidates from Brownback to Thompson.
Think about the impact of replacing Stevens, Ginsburg, or Kennedy with a pro-life Justice. Smash that hope to pieces by thinking about Hillary appointing those replacements and also her appointing a replacement for Scalia.
If evangelicals could temporarily cast away the bigotry and work side by side with the mormons (who, despite the theological differences, share all political ideologies with evangelicals) the pro-life movement is very close to a strong and lasting victory...however, a president Clinton would be a huge defeat.
Oops - Here's that working link for Mark DeMoss
Ron Paul is the best choice for President. He has a good understanding of the correct principles of good government and the integrity to vote according to those principles.
Why would Robert Taylor not endorse the obvious best fit for him and Bob Jones University? RON PAUL a true Christian, a true statesman, a true American, a true family man and a godly charactered principled human being. All of the ingredients for a great President in these times.
Pro-life Christians who are prayerful about this decision and the stakes involved will find it much easier to support Romney, and will find they can very easily do so without endorsing Mormonism.
(Ron Paul falls in the un-electable category.)
I'm sickened by what I am reading here. So many of you are choosing to vote for the lesser of two evils. You say that you can't vote for who you really want to because they are "un-electable". Have we as Christians become so independent from God, that we ignore His clear commands to be Godly and support only Godly people because we think that WE are the ones who are in control? Are we expected by God to actually control who gets into office? Heavens no! That is God's job! We can only do our duty as He has commanded us to and let the results up to Him! God is the one who puts people into power. God is the King of ALL Kings! So please stop voting on who YOU think is electable and start voting for who is the best candidate. Let's start being principled and stop being pragmatic.
Mother of two: I hope your influence as a mother doesn't rub off on your two children or they'll become bigots too! ...an indisputable disgrace to the idea and concept of being a mother. Your comments are a reflection of a weak bigoted and imbecilic mind.
PS: To Ron Paul's supporters: Ron Paul is effectively a Democrat!
Dan: how so is Ron Paul a democrat? You can't just make a statement like that and not back it up with any facts.
Dan, Ron Paul a democrat? Please, support that statement with some facts. I'll go first and prove that he is certainly the ONLY conservative running for the republican nomination: http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues. There are my facts, right from the horses mouth. Where are yours?
Dru -
You make a reference to our obligation to support "Godly" candidates. What is required for someone to be considered a "Godly" candidate? That they believe the same set religious doctrines and dogmas as you? Or are we just looking for someone who lives a "Godly" lifestyle? If it is the latter, I defy you to show me who qualifies as being more "Godly" than Mitt Romney. Look at the way he lives his life, look at the way he treats his wife and family, look at the way he has served in his own church, and look at the way he has run his businesses/the Olympics/the State of Massachusetts. There are certainly legitimate reasons not to support Romney, but claiming he is not "Godly" enough is just plain dumb.
I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Although I'm not a Saint I do strive to live my life with that as a goal. Sort of like when I was taught to "Dress for Success", to dress as if I already had the job I was stiving for. I pray to my Father in Heaven, ending in the name of Jesus Christ. Is it not okay that when I attend a Catholic Mass with my friend that I honored her belief and said Amen to the pray submitted in my behalf by her Priest. When I attend church with my Baptist friend I said Amen to the prayer submitted in my behalf by her Pastor. I believe when I attended service with my Jewish friend and said Amen, my Savior accepted that prayer on my behalf. I do understand that there are various concepts of our Lord and Savior; but each of my friends have a heart and mind committed to their perception of who He is. I will always respect that and I've been taught that God and His Son, Jesus Christ respect that as well. My President does not have to have my perception or my belief; but by his "fruits" I can know what he stands for. Mitt Romney has presented to us that he was wrong, his opinion before was shaped by experiences he'd had up to that point; and it was put to a test while Governor when he was prompted (I suspect by the Spirit) to examine his stand. He did and he changed his position. I wish there were more politicians who would admit that. Wouldn't it have been nice to hear my Presidnet today say "I was wrong and many of you were right, I will examine my stand and make changes where necessary." I haven't spent an hour typing and retyping this in some other document to make sure that I stated my thoughts with precisely the right words so I suspect someone is going to pick this apart. Let's try and read with our hearts and be more respectful of other's intention to share what's on their mind. The conversation needs to happen, what needs to change is our responsiblity to listen with our hearts and assume a person's intentions are good instead of looking for a way to rudely shut them out.
Dan: I guess that "Godly" means something different to you than it does to me. Treating your wife and kids nice and being a nice guy does not equate to "Godly" to me. His views on how he would run the Presidency are not "Godly". In his typical speeches he mentions three things that make our nation strong (faith in God/Christ and His Word are not among these things). He advocates unConstitutional foreign aid. He suggest we become involved in a 1400 year old fight among Muslims, and when he's President all computers will have a certain type of filtering device in them. This man could not care less about the Scriptural/Constitutional limits on civil government and the Presidency. Personally, he doesn't need to believe the same "dogmas" that I do, but he does at least need to understand the Scriptural/Constitutional limits on civil government and abide by them.
Conservative Christians might want to check out this blog:
"Who Was That Masked Man?"
It may help you settle on a good candidate...
Dan and Joel, I suppose I am a bigot in your minds. I have strong convictions and am driven by my beliefs. I will not be conviced that it is right for BJU to come out in support of a Mormon. That doesn't mean that I hate Dean Taylor or Mitt Romney. It's just my opinion on this issue. I'm sorry I make you so angry that you must resort to name calling.
Let's be real. If you wanted a devoted husband and father, someone who is religious, spends time helping the homeless, campaigns for free elections then Jimmy Carter is your man. Granted not an effective leader though the Mid East would be even more chaotic with out the Camp David accords, being devout isn't enough for you all. You treat God like a GOP precint captain. People have a right to their religious and political views, but to grant the GOP or the Democrats as being part of a holy mission is wrong. Are devout Democrats denied heaven if they don't agree to the Republican platform?
To say Ron Paul is the only true conservative runnning is to make the unsupported claim that libertarianism is the only legitimate species of conservatism. There are currently 4 or 5 separate, but at times overlapping, subsets within the modern Republican party. Each of them would claim to be "conservative." Ron Paul libertarianism represents only one of these subsets, and is certainly not the largest. So, whereas calling Ron Paul a Democrat is completely wrongheaded, calling him the only true conservative is only slightly less wrongheaded. Remember, Lincoln, who is considered a Republican paradigm by some, was not a Libertarian in any way, shape or form. instead of relying on your silly websites, go read a history book. Are there some libertarian ideals which have played a strong role in shaping the Republican agenda at various times in the Party's history? Absolutely. But "Conservative" and "Libertarian" have never been completely synonymous terms.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (note the name) is a Christian denomination. It occupies its own unique niche in Christendom, being neither Catholic nor Orthodox nor Protestant. Everything about its origins, doctrine, beliefs and practices centers on Christ and his earthly mission. No group of people have ever existed on the earth who believe in the divinity of Christ more fervently. There is no objective test for authentic Christianity one could possibly devise from the New Testament alone that Latter-day Saints cannot pass with a perfect score. It doesn't matter how many times people like mother-of-two say Latter-day Saints are not Christians: they are, they have always been, and they always will be Christians. They know it and above all, God knows it. Nothing else matters.
Romney is done. It is embarrassing that Hugh Hewitt and other paid supporters of the man who ran to Ted K's left in 1994 now are saying momentum is shifting because of the dean of a college endorsing him. Look at Polls. He may be able to win N.H. but as soon as the attack ads start he will drop in Iowa to 10% or so, similar to his national numbers. Guy Smiley might be able to be vice president, but he cannot be the commander in chief. The only evangelicals supporting him are the ones on his payroll.
Ooops. Mitt supported a liberal dem running in New Hampshire by donating money to him, voted for Paul Tsongas and was opposed to the contract for America. Maybe he will be saved by his strong support of guns in a state that loves them? Nope....Another attack ad waiting to happen after he restricted them in Mass and lied about being a lifelong hunter.
Predictions, predictions. They are just made of words needing to be eaten. We'll see who is done after the only polls that matter: the primary elections.
Fox: I am sorry if I mislead you into believe that I only care about labels. That is certainly not the case. You see to be very set on labeling what it is you agree with either "Republican" or "Libertarian"... I think we need to "stop talking about right or left and start talking about right and wrong." To further emphasize my previous statement, Ron Paul is certainly the most conservative candidate in regards to foreign affairs/policies and government involvement in our lives.
QuitMitt - your statement about Mitt running left of Ted K in 1994 is dead wrong. Look Here
QuitMitt your statement about "the only evangelicals supporting Mitt are those on his Payroll" is dead wrong too. First & foremost, Mark DeMoss comes to mind. Here's his quote: "I decided over a year ago to help Mitt Romney; and while I have not been (and will not be) paid
one dollar, I have worked harder on behalf of a candidate this past year than in any election of
my lifetime."
I'm a graduate of Bob Jones U. Like Bob Taylor, I also don't want a pastor to be president. I just want a principled man who upholds his oath to protect and defend the Constitution. It doesn't matter what a man calls himself (Christian, etc.) if he breaks his oath and his contract with the American people. If he doesn't care about the Constitution yet takes the oath, he is a LIAR, and is an evil man. Honesty means doing what you've vowed to do and what you say you believe in. Romney has already demonstrated that he is a liar. End of story. There is only one honest (see above definition) man running for president: Ron Paul.
Romney is not a liar. You are a liar for saying he is. Ron Paul's problem is he is a nagging, whining, America-blaming nutcase.
Sorry, I but BCE in the wrong place.
BCE - The oath of office is to defend and uphold the constitution.
I'm sure that getting elected into office and suddenly realizing the pen in your hand has the power to stop the killing of unborn children or continue it is a sobering experience. BCE - when you call Romney a LIAR - are you saying that Romney (despite of his conversion to the pro-life cause) should have not exercised his veto on abortion / stem cell issues because he should have stayed true to the campaign he ran on? Wow!!! You really are as far out there as Ron Paul. Good luck getting above 1% in the polls.
I welcome Romney to the pro-life cause...and I will continue welcoming another other politicians who convert from being pro-choice regardless of what they have said or done in the past.
Oops -- I just noticed there are two Ryan's posting here. I am a Romney fan, while the other Ryan seems to be a Ron Paul Fan. I'll use the poster name "Ryan H." from here on out.
Good for Mitt...he got the all important nut case vote. Maybe his next endorsements will come from the Flat Earthers, The 9/11 conspiracy wackos, Intelligent Design "scientists", and people still looking for Elvis.
Conservatives, conservative christians (surely an oxymoron) and all the flora and fauna of the Wacky Right have had their chance to ruin this country and they have done a pretty good job at it. Now, hopefully, we can avoid someone from the Loony Left and find someone, somewhere, who can solve problems, not create them, balance the books not drown us in red ink, and get us the hell out of all the hell holes these idiots have gotten us into. No more C students in the White House, no more Bible School grads running government departments, no more neocon armchair generals destroying american credibility overseas and making us weaker and more isolated.
All of you who still think that are biggest problems are abortion, prayer in schools, evolution and "guns" please, please stay on your meds, double dose and take a long nap and let the rest of us fix the incredible mess you and your president have made of everything. When you wake up we will try some conditional release until we let you loose on an unsuspecting world.
George, I guess I shouldn't be surprised you're from Oregon.
So much hate,and bigotry...so little time. As I read these comments it reminds me of how far the christian movement has come, it looks a lot like the islamic relegion, just lacking the Karan. Point is who will decide who believes in God and who doesn't."Judge not that ye be not judged" pretty basic don't you think?
First of all Christianity is only hurting itself when it gets too closely tied with one political party or side. Creating an "us/right" vs. "them/left" is an obstacle for the Christians ultimate goal.
"Who is electable" should not be an issue. You should vote for who you believe is the best. Basing your decision on what others are doing is wrong on any level.
I don't really care who Robert Taylor supports(it's definitely not Romney), and I am a BJU student.
If Robert Taylor states publicly that he supports Romney, then your foot will firmly be stuffed into your mouth, won't it?
Eichendorff: You cannot label Ron Paul as gloom and doom when he is simply calling lies, killing and illegal actions exactly what they are: evil.
Where did I label anyone doom and gloom? Ron Paul nags and whines and blames America for bringing September 11th on itself. I heard him say it. He also said the Iranians are behaving sensibly. He's a complete nutcase.
"Who is electable should not be an issue. You should vote for who you believe is the best."
In choosing between two candidates who both hold the political views you want in a President, you should always go with the one who is more electable. The two main issues of importance to Christians are pro-life, and the federal marriage amendment. Romney is the only front-runner with the platform Christians want on both of those issues. James Dobson recognizes this and hasn't ruled out supporting Romney. If you go with a 2nd tier, less electable candidate who holds similar views to Romney on those issues - you risk losing out on your two most important issues when both Romney AND your candidate of choice lose the nomimation to
someone like Giuliani.
Men who chase two rabbits lose both. Similarly - Christians who want a pro-life, pro-marriage-amendment candidate - but are chasing 5 different candidates will lose to Giuliani and Giuliani will lose to Hillary.
I am speaking as the voice of reason and voice of warning. The next President of the United States will either be Mitt Romney or Hillary Clinton, and we are only 12 weeks away from knowing the answer.
Luckily for America - it just so happens that Romney is the best candidate - period. He is not only right in line on the social issues above, he is best on economic issues, best foreign policy issues, and best on domestic policy issues.
The WSJ's pencil sketch of Romney resembles Dick Morris more that Mitt Romney...
Ryan H: the presidential oath is ""I do solemnly swear...that I will..preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
For those of you who think that pro-life means defending only the unborn, how can you call killing 1.2 million civilians (men, women, and children) in another country pro-life? Romney wants to "double Guantanamo" which means he has no regard for habeus corpus. He wants a national ID card, destroying our right to privacy. He wants to continue the war in Iraq and extend the war to Iran. Instead of going to Congress to declare war, he wants to consult lawyers! Are any of these positions protecting and defending the Constitution? Once again, anyone who takes that oath is a liar if they don't intend to uphold it.
Eichendorff: As far as Ron Paul blaming America for 9-11, do you watch only Fox News? Do you not honestly know the difference between blaming policy (which is repeatedly what Paul did) and blaming Americans (which is NOT what Paul did). It's really very simple: if they were occupying our country, I would be shooting them too. Our leaders don't have the unilateral right to take any lives they want to. That is murder.
Ryan H: As far as Romney being the best on economic issues...his strategy is to be optimistic! Ignore inflation, out of control spending, trillions spent on the war, the illegal income tax, the crashing dollar and just be optimistic! Woohoo!
Value voter summit straw poll is this saturday night. Mitt will win God willing.
Have all of the Christian presidents of the past 220 years believed the same "brand" of doctrine? Of course not. The question each of us should be asking is, "Of those who have a chance of being elected, which will operate most closely to my own moral and policy positions?" Or, if you prefer, "of all of the candidates who stand for the same moral values and policy positions as I endorse, which is the most electable?"
I find it disappointing and even disturbing that so many people think they know whether Romney is a Christian better than Romney himself. It is also surprising that an individual who has been faithful to his wife for over four decades and has raised an outstanding family would be less attractive to many commenting here than those who have talked the talk but have not walked the walk.
If you read comments about Catholics and/or Jews professing the same logic, such comments would be immediately labeled as bigoted. Some here need to take a long hard look in the mirror.
As a Mormon, I'm always astonished when I'm told that I'm not a Christian and that I'm a racist. I don't, so far as I'm aware, have a racist bone in my body. And my faith is centered on the Jesus of the New Testament, and in his saving role as Redeemer.
I'm almost equally astonished when people suggest that Mitt Romney is just a wind-up doll, an empty suit, etc. You don't earn two graduate degrees at Harvard, have an extraordinarily successful career as a venture capitalist, raise a very successful family, devote thousands of unpaid hours to privately counseling people for all manner of problems (including psychological and economic ones) as a Mormon bishop and then as a Mormon stake president (I'm currently serving as a bishop, and, believe me, I know something of what he certainly also dealt with), lead a triumphantly successful Winter Olympics, and serve as governor of Massachusetts, by being no more than an empty suit. If that's not an effective and meaningful life, then I would really like to see the resumés of Governor Romney's vocal critics. They must be simply mind-boggling.
This is just sad. With the tiniest bit of research on the web the Rev. could have saved himself tons of humiliation...
This is Mitt. In his own words..
From what I understand a basic Mormon tenet is to pattern ones life after Christ.
I find it quite humorous that there are probably a significant number of BJ students/alumni who live a lesser Christian life than Romney and yet will not vote for him because they think he is not a Christian.
Good Luck with that.
I saw a bumper sticker once that said: "God, save me from your people."
I think I could safely say that about some of the folks on this website.
Jesus said, "Unless you become like a child, you cannot enter the Kingdom of God."
And then think about that man that hung on the cross next to Jesus -- not the guy with attitude -- but the other guy.
While the bad attitude dude was saying rude things to Jesus, the other guy said, 'We deserve to die for our evil deeds, but this man hasn't done anything wrong.' Then he said, 'Jesus, remember me when you come into your Kingdom.' And Jesus replied, 'I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise.' Luke 23:40-43
Think about it, he didn't know who Jesus was, except some good person who did good deeds and who was being killed for being the 'King of the Jews.'
This man didn't know any doctrine, didn't know about the Trinity, and didn't even get baptized -- and yet, Jesus said, 'I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise.'
I am not a Mormon. I was raised in an evangelical fundamentalist home and graduated from an evangelical fundamentalist Bible College and was taught that Mormonism was a cult.
I no longer believe that.
God is the judge. Not me. And not you.
Jesus also said that that by "their fruits" you shall know them.
As far as I can see, Mitt Romney and his family put many self-righteous so-called Christians to utter shame with the fruits of his life.
He will make a wonderful President of the United States of America!
This blog would engender a LOT more respect if each one would be more dedicated to light rather than heat. As my wife often admonishes me -- "Don't be cutsey! - SBT
On the electibility issue: I would vote for Billy Graham. But I would be throwing my vote away. Better to vote for someone who is good and can win.
Like me?
Huckabee has my vote. Most of the so called, "Christian Conservatives" here in SC think that the BJU folks wear their religion on their sleeves rather than in their hearts. Also, look at all the money the Jones have amassed. Jets, houses, land, I guess they prayed for gold!
Um. Believing "in" Christ doesn't actually make one a Christian. It's what one believes about Christ. Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, and yes, even Baptists, all can hold to the Nicene Creed (with perhaps some quibbles about the filioque clause), affirming the deity of Christ. Mormons do not believe that Christ is God. That, I think, is why the Christian community does not recognize LDS to be a part of it.
Politics aside.
By and large any controversy in the matter of Mormons being Christian or not has swirled around two doctrinal issues—the view of the Godhead and the belief in the principle of continuing revelation leading to an open scriptural canon. With a desire to increase understanding and unequivocally declare the Christianity of Mormon, I write at least for now on the first of those two doctrinal issues just mentioned.
No less a source than the stalwart Harper's Bible Dictionary records that "the formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the New Testament."
In the year A.D. 325 the Roman emperor Constantine convened the Council of Nicaea to address—among other things—the growing issue of God's alleged "trinity in unity." What emerged from the heated contentions of churchmen, philosophers, and ecclesiastical dignitaries came to be known (after another 125 years and three more major councils)4 as the Nicene Creed, with later reformulations such as the Athanasian Creed. These various evolutions and iterations of creeds—and others to come over the centuries—declared the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost to be abstract, absolute, transcendent, imminent, consubstantial, coeternal, and unknowable, without body, parts, or passions and dwelling outside space and time. In such creeds all three members are separate persons, but they are a single being, the oft-noted "mystery of the trinity." They are three distinct persons, yet not three Gods but one. All three persons are incomprehensible, yet it is one God who is incomprehensible.
A related reason The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is excluded from the Christian category by some is because they believe, as did the ancient prophets and apostles, in an embodied—but certainly glorified—God. To those who criticize this scripturally based belief, I ask at least rhetorically: If the idea of an embodied God is repugnant, why are the central doctrines and singularly most distinguishing characteristics of all Christianity the Incarnation, the Atonement, and the physical Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ? If having a body is not only not needed but not desirable by Deity, why did the Redeemer of mankind redeem His body, redeeming it from the grasp of death and the grave, guaranteeing it would never again be separated from His spirit in time or eternity?18 Any who dismiss the concept of an embodied God dismiss both the mortal and the resurrected Christ. No one claiming to be a true Christian will want to do that.
Becca, I am a Mormon and we do believe that Jesus is God. Here is a line from the Book of Mormon: "I am Jesus Christ. I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world."
I realize that some people do not think that I am a Christian. But let me assure everyone that I and all Mormons believe that Jesus is my savior and that we are indeed Christian.
I work at BJU, and I don't understand why BJIII's endorsement of Mitt Romney inflames some people. I see Huckabee and Thompson stickers on some faculty/staff cars (and even an occasional McCain sticker). He's not speaking at this point for BJU as an entirety; he's just voicing his own opinion publicly. And if America can survive FDR, Eisenhower, JFK, Nixon, Carter, and Bush I, I don't see how Romney as president will be any greater threat to God's kingdom.
Mother of two; BJIII is simply saying that Romney is a honorable man, would make a good president, and in his opinion, is the best option to beat the Democrat nominee (likely Hillary). How is this opinion evidence of how weak Christianity has become?
J. Cuthbert Norwich: Mike Huckabee basically espoused theistic evolution as a reasonable option in a recent debate. I think this is a totally incorrect position, but I'm leaning toward voting for Huckabee in the primary at this point anyway. If you send your children to BJU, I will teach a different view of origins than the man who will likely receive my vote in the primary.
BCE: Ron Paul thinks that the term "Islamic fascism" was invented by warmongers who need to drum up enthusiasm against a paper tiger. Until he can prove that he is in touch with the real world, he can be as conservative as he wants to be, but I won't vote for him. There's a difference between listening to your enemies' statements and swallowing their propaganda. GWB is not my perfect president, but I'm inclined to believe him more than a man who is part of a group that saws innocent people's heads off with knifes (and then broadcasts the video footage to the world). These people aren't just freedom fighters--there's a lot more going on here than was caused simply by poor U.S. foreign policy.
By and large any controversy in the matter of Mormons being Christian or not has swirled around two doctrinal issues—the view of the Godhead and the belief in the principle of continuing revelation leading to an open scriptural canon. With a desire to increase understanding and unequivocally declare the Christianity of Mormon, I write at least for now on the first of those two doctrinal issues just mentioned.
No less a source than the stalwart Harper's Bible Dictionary records that "the formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the New Testament."
In the year A.D. 325 the Roman emperor Constantine convened the Council of Nicaea to address—among other things—the growing issue of God's alleged "trinity in unity." What emerged from the heated contentions of churchmen, philosophers, and ecclesiastical dignitaries came to be known (after another 125 years and three more major councils)4 as the Nicene Creed, with later reformulations such as the Athanasian Creed. These various evolutions and iterations of creeds—and others to come over the centuries—declared the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost to be abstract, absolute, transcendent, imminent, consubstantial, coeternal, and unknowable, without body, parts, or passions and dwelling outside space and time. In such creeds all three members are separate persons, but they are a single being, the oft-noted "mystery of the trinity." They are three distinct persons, yet not three Gods but one. All three persons are incomprehensible, yet it is one God who is incomprehensible.
We agree with our critics on at least that point—that such a formulation for divinity is truly incomprehensible. With such a confusing definition of God being imposed upon the church, little wonder that a fourth-century monk cried out, "Woe is me! They have taken my God away from me, . . . and I know not whom to adore or to address."5 How are we to trust, love, worship, to say nothing of strive to be like, One who is incomprehensible and unknowable? What of Jesus's prayer to His Father in Heaven that "this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent"?6
It is not our purpose to demean any person's belief nor the doctrine of any religion. We extend to all the same respect for their doctrine that we are asking for ours. (That, too, is an article of our faith.) But if one says we are not Christians because we do not hold a fourth- or fifth-century view of the Godhead, then what of those first Christian Saints, many of whom were eyewitnesses of the living Christ, who did not hold such a view either?7
We declare it is self-evident from the scriptures that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are separate persons, three divine beings, noting such unequivocal illustrations as the Savior's great Intercessory Prayer just mentioned, His baptism at the hands of John, the experience on the Mount of Transfiguration, and the martyrdom of Stephen—to name just four.
A related reason The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is excluded from the Christian category by some is because they believe, as did the ancient prophets and apostles, in an embodied—but certainly glorified—God. To those who criticize this scripturally based belief, I ask at least rhetorically: If the idea of an embodied God is repugnant, why are the central doctrines and singularly most distinguishing characteristics of all Christianity the Incarnation, the Atonement, and the physical Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ? If having a body is not only not needed but not desirable by Deity, why did the Redeemer of mankind redeem His body, redeeming it from the grasp of death and the grave, guaranteeing it would never again be separated from His spirit in time or eternity?18 Any who dismiss the concept of an embodied God dismiss both the mortal and the resurrected Christ. No one claiming to be a true Christian will want to do that.
Who is this Flipmt Flommey anyway, His name remind me someone who over-expend money.
Flimpt Flommey,... now I remember The Flip-Floper.
Now I remember better, is Flitt Flommey
I read most of these comments and was astonished at the arrogance
and ignorance displayed by so-called christians. Your bias against Mormons gets in the way of logical thinking. How many of you have taken the time to visit a Mormon church or to learn from missionaries about the Mormon religion? You would be surprised at the doctrine and might even find that you could believe it or find it acceptable. Maybe your fears are the result of pure igornance or heresay.
Romney is a total BSer. Two years ago, he was pro-choice, anti-gun, pro-gay marriage, etc. McCain is the one who can beat Clinton II.
Did you know that Joseph Smith was a drunk, and Brigham Young had a saloon.......shew..........
As a Buddhist , I am offended. LOL
Bob Jones creeps, Rudy all the way, else Fred.
If conservatives make this campaign about theological purity, we conservatives and the Republican party will be in the wilderness for an awful long time. You've got to judge the candidate as an individual. There are definitely good and bad people in every group. Mitt Romney is incredibly accomplished and capable. By all appearances he is of impeccable character-- And the fact remains that he is the only socially conservative candidate who has a chance at the nomination. Sorry, Fred is not. For one, he displays a lack of understanding about gay marriage (AKA the effort to destroy marriage and families) when he proposes each state create its own definition of marriage. Courts will require each state to give full faith and credit to other states' marriages. If we get a constitutional amendment like Fred wants (saying no state has to recognize another state's marriage), there's still the problem of same-sex marriage in individual states; and yes, it does destroy the family. Romney understands this, and that's why he has fought to preserve marriage as governor and continues to do so.
Look, you may not agree with Romney's faith, but you don't have to in order to support him for President. His positions, values and character are what matter -- and he's right on those. It looks increasingly like Evangelical and Christian leaders of all persuasions are coming around to supporting Romney.
If we conservatives fight amongst ourselves for much longer, it will get Rudy nominated before we know it. -- Wake up people! Do you know what it means to be "socially liberal"? It means partial birth abortion (aka infanticide), the banning of the use of the terms "mom" and "dad" (Don't laugh, it's happening in CA), elimination of the Boy Scouts (a "hate group"), loss of religious freedom, . Romney is where we need him to be on these issues. Granted, he was not always perfect, but he was far from the "liberal" he was depicted as (See his 1994 campaign literature reposted at EVANGELICALSFORMITT.ORG). He was always generally conservative (in hostile Massachussetts), and properly described as a social moderate back in 1994.
He's a great leader. He can beat Hilary. We need Romney.
College of Arts and Sciences? Yeah, you bet! Those poor kids. But, actually, who cares? It's meaningless to the big picture. Fundamentalists are fast becoming the mere scratch on the surface of America that they were for years before the Republicans began pandering to them.
Here's a BJU grad who will vote for Hilary, or any other Dem who makes it. Unbridled Republicanism has distorted our country like Fundamentalism has distorted Christianity.
also, Mormons, shorten up those blogs, I almost died of boredom- I'm sure there's a point in there- get to it.
BJU Class of '96 and '98:
Why am I not surprised that someone dumb enough to vote for Hillary doesn't know how to spell.
I think if America were to impose a simple intelligence quiz that needed to be passed in order for one's vote to be counted - the democrats would never be elected ever again.
Have we as Americans forgotten a fundamental political principle, the separation of Church and state? Dr. Taylor was quoted as saying, "We are not electing a pastor...we are electing a president." The Presidential office is not one of religion. If any president of any religion forces his religious views upon his constituency then he is in violation of this principle that our founding fathers wisely put into place.
Moral decisions are not necessarily a reflection upon one's religious beliefs and convictions. Mormons, Catholics, and Fundamental Christians would all hold to the same views on Gay marriage and abortion. Those views, while obviously influenced by religion, are not exclusive to religion. Let us not forget the principle of separation of church and state. Remember we are not voting for a pastor, we are voting for a president.
By the way...Rudy is an idiot!!! Conservatives (for the most part) hate him. He will never beat Hillary.
Mitt should have gone for the jugular when Rudy talked about the line item veto during their Michigan debate. The line item veto (which Rudy fought through the Supreme Court - and for which he glorified himself at having beat the Clintons) was legislation that came from Newt Gingrich and the GOP - not the Clintons. Rudy beat the GOP - not the Clintons!!!!!
How do we expect Rudy to appoint constructionalist justices to the Supreme Court when Rudy is at odds with the most Constuctionalist Justice (Scalia) of them all?
Politicians should not endorse religious leaders.
Religious leaders should not endorse politicians.
I am utterly baffled by the controversy this causes. Do your homework and make your own choices. Why is this even national news?
Rudy will be our next President, and RIGHTly so. How soon will Romney bow-out?
Frankie: Rudy won't be president - ever.
Here's why: The 2008 election is going to be decided by six - eight battleground states including FL, OH, MI, MN, WI, and VA...which are all states wherein the GOP & Dems plan to steal electoral votes from eachother.) Neither party has any chance of stealing any other significant state...regardless of the nominee. Even if a mormon GOP nominee causes 10% - 15% of southern GOP voters to stay home, that margin isn't large enough for southern states to go blue.
Rudy doesn't do well in any of the battleground states except Florida. He will handily lose to Hillary. Mitt does much better than Rudy in these states and therefore is much more likely to beat Hillary than Rudy.
Rudy's strength in NY and NJ is just as meaningless as Mitt's strength in MA because those states almost always vote blue in presidential elections and the margin is too great for any GOP nominee to overcome. If you think otherwise - you are kidding yourself.
Just don't take my guns away Mr. President.
Hey Vote McCain! "Romney is a total BSer. Two years ago, he was pro-choice, anti-gun, pro-gay marriage, etc. McCain is the one who can beat Clinton II."
You know this isn't true. You are purposly distorting the facts.
How Christian (underlying theme of post) is that?
Please go to BJU.EDU to see that the Romney endorsement is a personal choice of certain of the administrators. I'm an employee and I'm still researching the available options Ron Paul maybe?. I'm going to see who makes it through the primary.
BMP, I can answer your question quite simply. Bob Jones III stated in a public letter that Mormons are members of a cult. In the minds of many he has flip flopped. Secondly, I think it shows a lack of trust in our Almighty God. It makes it seem as though Mitt Romney is our only hope against Hillary Clinton. He is not.
So, in my opinion, it makes the Christian community look weak because it seems like action out of fear.
That being said, I support the school, I like the school. I'm just disappointed by this endorsement.
Mother of Two and Dru, You talk about trusting in God and God being in control. As a devout Mormon/Christian, I absolutely believe that, should He choose to do so, God could determine the next president (or even replace our entire system with something better). To date, however, God seems to have chosen to allow us to choose our presidents. How many of us believe that it was God who chose Bill Clinton or Richard Nixon or LBJ. I believe that God is willing to let us make our own mistakes, both individually and as a nation, with the goal that we will learn from them. With that in mind, I believe it is pure folly to simply vote for the person you think would be the best president without considering their electability. By voting for Kuckabee or Brownback or Paul, you may well be handing the nomination to Giuliani and the election to Hillary. I trust in God completely. But I also believe that God (in his unfathomable wisdom) has decided to trust us to handle these kinds of matters and to let us bear the consequences when we screw up. Personally, I've had enough of such consequences and am hoping we as a nation will elect someone who is both moral and effective. Mitt fits the bill.
The claim that Romney somehow does not support the Constitution is ridiculous. While Harry Reid may differ from him on how the Constitution should be interpreted, one of the aspects of Mormon belief is that God raised up the generation of patriots who created America as a nation with religious freedom guaranteed by its Constitution. In Mormon sermons, the Constitution is almost always described as "divinely inspired". Romney's Mormon beliefs require him to respect the Constitution and the freedom of all Americans, religious and political.
A few commenters claimed Mormons are racist. Please note that over half of the 13 million Mormons in the world live outside the US and Canada and speak languages other than English. A million Mexicans are Mormons, almost that many Brazilians, 600,000 Filipinos, 100,000 Japanese, a third of the population of Tonga. There are tens of thousands of Mormons in Ghana, Nigeria, Kenya, and South Africa. Mormon congregations are growing in Mongolia, Ukraine, and other former communist countries. As was evidenced during the 2002 Olympics, Mormon service as missionaries around the world has given Utah one of the most linguistically diverse populations in the US, which is the reason that the US Army Intelligence Corps draws most of its linguists from the National Guard there. If you call a Mormon racist, you are calling blacks, Hispanics, Native Americans, Polynesians, and Asians like myself racist. You are, in short, demonstrating your total ignorance about who the Mormons are and what they believe.
As to those who claim Mormons are not Christian, I would point out that about half of Mormons are converts who were mostly members of various traditional Christian churches before joining the LDS Church. They have lived for years as traditional Christians, and for years as Mormons. They believe they are, if anything, MORE Christian now than they were before, with a renewed faith in the reality of Christ as the Son of God and Savior of mankind, who actively communicates with prophets on the earth as in Biblical times, and whose prophesied return is a real and ever-approaching event. These Mormons have found that the miraculous events related in the Bible are reaffirmed by the Book of Mormon, which testifies that Christ was not a mere Jewish preacher but the God of the whole earth. These Mormons study the Bible with their families and believe in its literal truth far more than some other traditional Christians. Indeed, national studies of American religious commitment have found that Mormons are more dedicated to Bible study than most other Christians, and that Mormon teenagers are more committed to Bible study, prayer, and living according to Christ's teachings than other Christian teens. Please note: One of those converts to Mormonism who is still a Christian is Anne Romney.
Finally, as to Romney himself being a Christian--During his service as a Mormon Bishop, heading a congregation, and then as a president of several congregations (both unpaid part-time positions requiring 20 to 30 hours a week of service to which a person is called--he doesn't nominate himself), was responsible for not only teaching about Christ on Sundays, but also for counseling personally with those in need of spiritual advice, emotional support, and financial aid, and for marshalling the service of church members to help those in need, including disbursing funds to pay mortgages for the unemployed and providing food for the hungry. This is where Mormons come from who show up at the scene of disasters like Hurricane Katrina and help people recover and rebuild, often before government agenices arrive.
Like other Mormons, Romney donates 10% of his income to his church, and additionally fasts on the first Sunday of each month and donates the food money saved to the fund for the poor. In his work for the Olympics and Massachusetts, he donated his entire salary to charities, and will do the same if elected president. Romney meets the definition of the Epistle of James in practicing "pure religion", to provide real aid to those in need, which is the standard Christ said he would use to judge mankind, in Matthew Chapter 25.
Bob Novak, Mark DeMoss, Robert Taylor, & Bob Jones III -- all supporting Mitt.
LOL!! If this doesn't put the "Mormon" issue to bed...it certainly puts the pajamas on!!!!
The Christian Base is certainly beginning to move toward Mitt. I knew Christians sooner or later would be smart enough to start supporting Mitt.
Mother of Two: Thanks for the straightforward explanation--I agree for the most part. I still don't think that supporting Mitt is a issue of theological compromise as others have stated or implied. My wife (who does not work for the school) is a big Huckabee fan, and I'm leaning that way based on his positions and consistency. All the best as you raise your two.
Hey John,
Why the distinction between Christians and Mormons in your above comment? I guess that is why James Dobson, Gary Bauer and many others much more credible that old Bobby Jones, et al have been keeping their quills dry. How about Dr. Billy Graham. After all, Dr, Graham is the only Reverend graduate from BJU I would listen to. Do you think Bob Jones the first and Joseph Smith corresponded when developing their respective cults. I think I will wait on the Southern Baptists to roll out the carpet for one of their own-Huckabee.
Ryan H, Hey moron (or is that mormon- I can never tell) run it thru a spell check. I used the words I intended and spelled them correctly. If you want to use an intelligence test for voting for president- how about using one for actually being the president; our current commander-in-chief might find himself unable to run for student council at Midfield School for the Gifted (want an application?)
BJU Class of '96 & '98
It is pretty dumb to make spelling errors. It's even worse when someone points it out and you call them a moron because you still can't see it!!!! There are two l's in Hillary. Your example summarizes perfectly the mentality of Democrats!!
Quality education you have there at BJU
I seriously don't know why I even read these posts. The issue is simple - BJU disclaimed Taylor's comments for what they actually are - personal opinion.
I'd be curious to know how many of the people who are bad-mouthing BJU have actually visited the campus - or better, have been enrolled for a time. After 5 years and two degrees, I don't see any justification for the name-calling. I realize that not every student left the University happy (or even content), and hey, that's life - but those feelings are personal, not political - it'd probably be most reasonable to post those comments somewhere besides the Wall Street Journal site, you know?
Separation of church and state - all for it. I don't want the government running my church or my church running the country. But... religious leaders are just as much allowed to choose candidates as anyone else! Read your Constitution - I haven't found the place where it says "religious leaders are not protected by the free speech amendment." I don't have a problem with the president being a religious person either. What I do have a problem (and you would as well) is a president that tries to govern a specific religion on the nation or a religious figure who tries to mandate certain political actions for his followers. But college deans who know who they'll vote for - don't tell me that the deans at Harvard, Berkeley or any other school haven't said a word about their opinion! And if you want some real fun - think about that fact that the dean of Harvard's business school left Harvard two years ago to become president of Brigham Young University's Idaho campus http://www.lds.org/ldsfoundation/accelwork/humanintereststory/0,7989,1325--4-1914,00.html - how's that for the joining together of secular American education and Mormonism?
Also, there's no such thing as a political candidate that you agree with 100% - at least, I've never found one. For those of us who engage in critical thinking (as opposed to sheep-like following), election day often feels an awful lot like a choice between the lesser of two (or more) evils. I'm not expecting to find a "perfect candidate" - the American political system makes that pretty near impossible. I am going to look at the contenders and make a reasonable decision. My choice? None of your business. I'll make it clear on election day. But I don't feel a need to cast a "vote of conscience" to make my ideological point. If I'm going to live under the next president for 4 years, I'd prefer to cast a more practical vote. But hey, I've got a few more weeks to finalize my decision. So relax the rhetoric, get off of BJU's back, pick your candidate and have a pleasant day!
Ryan, My sinceer apologys to Hilaree for mizpelling her name. Calling you a moron for pointing it out was out of line. How 'bout calling you a moron for being apart of a religion with more twisted logic than a Bush Jr speech.
Mitt's church, the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) has been often misunderstood by Evangelical preachers in the past . . Some accused the Church of not believing in Christ and, therefore, not being a Christian religion . .
http://MormonsAreChristian.blogspot.com/ helps to clarify such misconceptions by examining early (First Century) Christianity's theology relating to baptism, the Godhead, the deity of Jesus Christ and His Atonement. Mitt's church believes in the Jesus of the New Testament, who prayed to his Father in Heaven in the Garden of Gethsemane, not the Jesus portrayed in the creeds of the 4th Century.
The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) adheres to Early Christian (New Testament) theology more closely than other Christian denominations. . Perhaps the reason Evangelical preachers promoted this mis-representation was to protect their flock (and their livlihood). It is encouraging to note that Evangelical preachers appear now to have a moral and competent president as a priority..
I think it is a waste of time to argue over whether or not Mormons are Christians. Mit doesn't need to convince anyone what his PERSONAL RELIGIOUS beliefs are. If you all agreed with his religious beliefs you'd be Mormon. Remember this is a Presidential election???? I actually think there IS a lot of bigotry going on here and it saddens me because I think that the fight should not be church against church. It should be believers AGAINST the crazy non-believers, those who are trying to take God out of everything, make homosexual marriages legal, let anyone have abortions, shall I go on.. the point is, we are wasting time on the wrong battle. I am sure Satan is loving it. Baptist, Jewish, Catholic, Mormon, etc. Find the common ground and go with that, everything else will work out in the end. Gees people, there is room in heaven for everyone.
Governor Huckabee is the best choice regardless of religions. Try governing Arkansas after Clinton and his convicted successor left office. He led that Democratic state with horrific national rankings to fix many major problems in a fiscally responsibility that led to tax cuts and a surplus.
Mike Huckabee clearly communicates a common sense, workable solution on all the key issues and takes stands which should thrill all values voters. The main reason he did not win the values voter poll is his perceived unelectability ... yet he is now ahead of Romney in national polls. Among all Republicans, I believe he will best appeal to independents just looking for a good change at the top.
I was for Romney until I discovered Mike Huckabee. Huck is only getting stronger. Be ready to switch graciously and help others discover him.
I am shocked and dismayed that the place I was taught "By their fruit ye shall know them" is taking a stand behind someone whose "fruit" is definitely Pro-Murder. Let's follow the BJU philosophy and allow Mitt's new "fruit" of being Pro-Life mature before accepting him with open arms. This could all be a fake just to get votes (again philosophy's learned at Bob Jones.) We CAN'T just take Romney's word for it. We MUST have proof. The proof I have about Romney is his speaches and his actions. He is pro-death and pro-gay. The poster he handed out at the 2002 Gay Pride event in Boston states "Mitt and Kerry [his gubernatorial running mate]Wish You a Great Pride Weekend! All citizens deserve equal rights, regardless of their sexual preference." Are Bob Jones III and Bob Taylor also endorsing Mitt's pro-gay stance? If so it is a flip-flop on their part now. Why don't we ask Bob Jones IV if the University is changing its stance on homosexuality?
RE "At BJU for 25 years": Bob Jones IV is a freelance writer and doesn't work at BJU. Hasn't since the early/mid 90's. He's not setting any school policy, but he's a nice guy--he'd be glad to talk with you, I'm sure.
I'm not on board with Mitt either for some of the reasons that you cite, but I do think that he's the most conservative choice of the current front-runners. I'm hoping my support for another candidate will change the current field of front runners.
But BJIII and Bob Taylor have not compromised the faith by endorsing Romney, nor have they changed their stance on homosexuality. Just ask the folks from Soulforce who demanded a forum here on campus to spread their views last spring.
Let me clear up some things for you all. Here is how the LDS church feels regarding homosexuality:"We believe that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God. We believe that marriage may be eternal through exercise of the power of the everlasting priesthood in the house of the Lord. "People inquire about our position on those who consider themselves so-called gays and lesbians. My response is that we love them as sons and daughters of God. They may have certain inclinations which are powerful and which may be difficult to control. Most people have inclinations of one kind or another at various times. If they do not act upon these inclinations, then they can go forward as do all other members of the Church. If they violate the law of chastity and the moral standards of the Church, then they are subject to the discipline of the Church, just as others are. "We want to help these people, to strengthen them, to assist them with their problems and to help them with their difficulties. But we cannot stand idle if they indulge in immoral activity, if they try to uphold and defend and live in a so-called same-sex marriage situation. To permit such would be to make light of the very serious and sacred foundation of God-sanctioned marriage and its very purpose, the rearing of families" (Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign, Nov. 1998, 71).
Abortion:Human life is a sacred gift from God. Elective abortion for personal or social convenience is contrary to the will and the commandments of God. Church members who submit to, perform, encourage, pay for, or arrange for such abortions may lose their membership in the Church.
Sounds like some of you are just holding on to prejudices. (too many flying angel anti-mormon cult movies?) YES Mitt is totally conservative, and definitely against abortion and anti-gay marriage. Are you saying that our political leaders should shun those "events" that WE disagree with, and not give some kind of acknowledgement? That would NEVER fly. He was being politically correct and kind, He did not say he supported gay marriage. MITT'S the man. He looks presidential. He'll blow the democrates away.
isn't it still reassuring to know that the LORD will be in control regardless of who wins this race. I think that all believer's in Christ should rejoice that no matter if BJIII or Taylor endorse somebody, the LORD has to first allow him/her to win.
momaduke, oops, "crazy nonbelievers"? come on, and the rest of you finger pointers, let go of your personal pride and work together.
BJU and other evangelicals: Whats more important here, electing someone that will really have our best interests in mind, or shady deal makers with secret combinations in every corner?
This is U.S. politics, not sunday school. Do you think that your God wants you all fighting over doctrinal beliefs, or working together to promote the greater good?
Break out your calculators, if the republican vote is broken up over multpile candidates, there wiil NOT BE a republican president, IT IS TIME TO FOCUS ON THE BIGGER PICTURE
i decided i wasnt finished, mostly because i cannot sleep.
I wanted to point out that at first, i perceived the authors of this blog to be intelligent enough to actually have formed opinions at least somewhat eloquently. But then after reading every single one of them in one sitting, i realize that any intelligence that may be present is so TAINTED by ignorance and/or pride in one area or another, that most of these comments are a waste of time to read.
Then i thought, what am i doing even spending my time in this forum, constructive political conversation (if even really possible) would be so much more beneficial elsewhere. So i finish my participation here, and shift my efforts to REACHING OUT to the ones who have no opinion. This seems to be a more meaningful cause.
and may Mitt Romney be President, AMEN
Huckabee could win it if more Christians would get behind him! He's somebody from Arkansas who can at least give the state it's good name back after Clinton ran it in the mud!
Neither Catholicism nor Mormomonism is just another Christian denomination. Catholicism has many flawed views, but chiefly, Catholics refuse to submit to the authority of Scripture and believe the biblical doctrine of justification. The Bible teaches that Christ is my substitute, not some other sinful man like the pope or a priest. Christ said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by me."
In regard to Mormonism, also reject the biblical definition of justification. They mix works with grace. They also do not submit to Scripture alone; they use spurious other books.
Therfore, the Mormon church and the Catholic church are both godless.
I am a Christian.
I am not voting for Romney either approved Bob Jones' endorsement.
Yeah! Three cheers for "President" Romney! He was so great at the last UTube GOP debate, even tho he was getting attacked from all sides. He is the most qualified, dignified, fun, hard-working, intelligent, presidential person from both sides. He's doing excellent in every quarter. Mitt 2008!
Look, say whatever you will, mormons are not Christians, and it's astonishing that they expect to be considered as such.
The choice is very simple. Romney or no America to leave to our children and grandchildren. Quote from Hillary, "I have so many great ideas for America, we can't afford them now, but we can get started" If Hillary or Barack get elected massive redistribution of your money will be their first and only priority.
I am an evangelical Christian and an alumna of Bob Jones. First of all, I'm a bit annoyed with all the bickering over the candidates' religions. John Kennedy was the first Roman Catholic to be elected. His election should have put the issue of religion to bed once and for all. At this point I'm not yet supporting any of the candidates, not because of religion, but because I don't yet know enough of their positions on the real issues (not one of which is religion). Perhaps part of the problem, especially with my fellow evangelicals, is that that they are confusing religion and values. Biblical doctrine is extremely important when choosing a pastor. Values, correct positions on issues, and even more so, voting records are important when electing a public official. The Bible exhorts us to speak openly about our faith, but I hope Mike Huckabee isn't doing it just to sway the evangelical vote. Oh, and by the way, remember, Jimmy Carter. He spoke about his Christianity while running for office and could even be seen carrying a Bible yet his presidency was an unmitigated disaster! Robert Taylor is right - we are voting for a president, not a pastor. Although I've not yet decided who to support, I admire Dr. Jones for not mindlessly following the pack, but making a decision based on logic and analysis. Another reason I'm proud to call myself a graduate of this great university.
Actually, to clearify things.... student of BJ and you people are all looking into the media WAY too much... some random person called up Dr. Bob and decided to ask him who he was "considering"... and leave it to the media to LOOK into things and take it to the next level. BJU does NOT endorse anyone. It was Dr. Bob who spoke of it. The "vote" is VERY different among students and teachers. There's a group who likes Huck and a group who follows McCain. I mean, COME ON PEOPLE, think. The media will take ANYTHING and twist it and now parents don't want their kids to go to BJ??? HAHA, it makes me laugh. Because of an OPINION?? I think you need to start looking at your priorities and actually KNOW what happened. BJ is a great school. They are not racists!! ha, at all. I laugh when i hear that. ALSO, the teachers are amazing and the students are extremely kind and sacrificial... smart! I mean, this school has good education. Try again people. try again.
Ahh, yes. As Dr. Peter Ruckman (Bob Jones University Alumni)says, "Birds of a feather, flock together."
Ron Paul will be speaking at Bob Jones University on January, 17th at 5:00pm. Check his site for details. ronpaul2008
I heard Romney say on TV at a news conference that Jesus Christ is his Lord and Saviour, you can not say that unless He is!
If you do not beleive this try it and you will see.
My vote is for Romney, and I am not a Mormon.
Hee hee, I just called myself old and stupid, but I didn't mention the fact that I have no personality! VOTE FOR ME! YAY!.....I'M TRYING TO BE LIKABLE, PEOPLE!
I find it sad that people compare Mormonism to Bob Jones (just because they both believe in high-calibur worship music) because BJU was founded as an interdenominational school for Methodists (which they were), Presbyterians and Lutherans that hadn't thrown the Bible out as the innerant Word of God due to liberalism that crept into mainstream churches until this day. Interestingly enough, the Bible says that if you call on the Lord, He will save you. It doesn't say you have to know all the doctrines. After all, God the Spirit draws us to God the Father in the new birth. At the same time, a student of scripture will find that we are not to add anything (like the Book of Mormon) or take anything away from the insprired Word of God (like liberal theologians do). I am sure Mormonism translates that verse as adding to the Book of Mormon and the Canon (O.T. and N.T. of scripture) as a whole.
to Curious: A correction...Billy Graham was NEVER a graduate of BJU. He attended for 1 term only, wisely dropping out.
Perhaps that is why you'll listen to him today...
All I can say is Lord help Bob Jones and all who follow him, he is a blind leader leading blind people.
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Volgarr the Viking
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June 1 2013, 09:29 PM
Rear Admiral
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Volgarr the Viking
Volgarr the Viking is an upcoming 2D platformer indie game for the PC that draws inspiration from 80's arcade games like Super Ghouls 'n Goblins and Rastan. The original Castlevania on the NES also serves as a big inspiration for the game. The game is expected to be released this summer.
I'm absolutely loving indie gaming these days. Professional developers stopped making the types of games that I really enjoy a long time ago, so it's great to see that indie developers are picking up the slack. I really miss how prevalent Nintendo Hard 2D platformers like this were back in the 80's and early 90's. This is definitely a day one purchase for me. Anyway, check it out.
Short Review:
Kickstarter Page (successfully funded a year ago):
Volgarr the Viking on Kickstarter
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Marketplace AM for July 5, 2007
Episode Description
Hello? Social networking's on the phone
Posted In: Science
Ccube is putting a new twist on social networking websites like MySpace. It's bringing the concept of connecting strangers with similar interests direct to your phone, with so many bells and whistles it made Cash Peters' head spin.
Washington at odds over VA funding
Posted In: Washington
Hundreds of thousands of disabled Veterans are waiting months, sometimes years, to receive disability benefits from the Veterans Administration. Congress is trying to add to the VA's budget, but not everyone is happy with the price tag. Steve Henn reports.
Sony seeking songwriters
Posted In: Entertainment
Recording giant Sony BMG is trying to renegotiate a contract with Michael Jackson to allow the company to get into the publishing side of the music industry. Times of London's Dan Sabbagh says it all depends how big a check they're ready to write.
More and more jobs land in India
Posted In: Canada, Jobs
India's tech and services sectors are growing by leaps and bounds. This year, revenues in the tech sector alone are expected to reach $50 billion. And a lot of that dough is coming from American companies, Stacey Vanek-Smith reports.
Too much wine in Europe
Posted In: Canada
That's right, so much wine that European taxpayers are pouring close to a billion dollars a year into getting rid of all the excess grapes. So yesterday the E.U. proposed an overhaul of the wine sector. Jill Barshay has details.
China with a capital C
Posted In: Canada
A new Price Waterhouse Coopers report predicts the Chinese stock market will lead the world in IPOs this year, but Shanghai dropped 5 percent today. Financial Times' Robin Kwong says government worries about an economic bubble have investors worried too.
Roswell cashing in on UFO business
Posted In: Entertainment
For better or worse, the legendary UFO incident of 1947 forever changed the town of Roswell, New Mexico, but somewhere along the line its residents learned to embrace the folklore. And cash in on it. Janet Babin explains.
Old citizenship rates going, going...
Posted In: Immigration
There's been a surge in citizenship applications across the country in the past six months. Patriotic fervor? More likely, immigrants are hoping to avoid the 69 percent increase in the application fee. Dan Grech reports.
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new year's eve
See Crazy Photos From Coney Island's New Year's Polar Bear Swim
The Coney Island Polar Bear Club's annual New Year's swim looks like a great time. People in costumes, swimming, having fun. We probably should've gone, but there was that whole hangover thing to deal with. Which makes us wonder, does jumping into the freezing Atlantic ocean cure a hangover? If so, we're totally there next year.
Jamie Kennedy Hosted the Worst New Year's Eve Show Ever
Kathy Griffin Tried to Kiss Anderson Cooper's Crotch on TV
Doctors Warn Champagne Bottles Can Cause Eye Injuries
New Year's Eve is all fun and games until somebody loses an eye.
That's the takeaway from the American Academy of Ophthalmology annual year end warning on champagne bottles. According to the doctors, 'When a champagne cork flies, you really have no time to react and protect your delicate eyes." GAH! Shield yourself with the nearest anything!!!


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Headlines April 01, 2011 Full Show | First Story >
Reports: Dozens of Civilian Casualties in Gaddafi, Western Attacks
Clashes are underway in Libya's eastern oil of town of Brega as rebel fighters try to reverse the momentum of forces loyal to Libyan leader Col. Muammar Gaddafi. The rebels are said to have made gains to retake Brega following a night of NATO air strikes against Gaddafi's troops. Rebel groups, meanwhile, are accusing the Gaddafi regime of committing "massacres" in the town of Misurata, with shelling reportedly killing dozens of civilians in the past few days. A rebel spokesperson told Reuters at least 20 civilians were killed and many wounded when Gaddafi forces bombed a number of homes. The Western bombing campaign has also reportedly killed a number of civilians in recent bombings of the capital Tripoli. A top Vatican official said he had heard credible reports that new air strikes have killed at least 40 civilians. The deputy commander of the NATO force, Canadian Lt. Charles Bouchard, said he is taking the reports seriously.
Lt. Charles Bouchard: "We are very careful in the prosecution of any of the possible targets that we have. We have very strict rules of engagement provided to us, and we are operating within the legal mandate of our United Nations Mandate 1973."
U.S.: Despite Losses, Gaddafi Forces Remain Intact
Testifying before Congress, the chair of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Mike Mullen, said the forces loyal to Libyan leader Col. Muammar Gaddafi are not near a breaking point, despite being weakened by the bombing by allied forces.
Admiral Mike Mullen: "We have actually fairly seriously degraded his military capabilities, his air defense capabilities, his command and control capabilities. We've attrited his overall forces at about the 20- to 25-percent level. That doesn't mean that he's about to break, from a military standpoint, because that's just not the case."
There has been speculation over whether rebel fighters will be able to defeat Gaddafi without a ground invasion by foreign troops. Appearing with Mullen, U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates reiterated vows not to send U.S. soldiers into Libya.
Defense Secretary Robert Gates: "There will be no American boots on the ground in Libya. Deposing the Gaddafi regime, as welcome as that eventuality would be, is not part of the military mission. In my view, the removal of Colonel Gaddafi will likely be achieved over time through political and economic measures and by his own people."
Report: CIA Operatives Were in Libya Before Presidential Order
While the Obama administration has not committed U.S. troops to the conflict in Libya, CIA operatives are on the ground in Libya as part of a covert Western force aiding the bombing campaign. According to Reuters, CIA operatives were sent into Libya even before President Obama signed a secret order authorizing the covert mission.
More Officials Leave Gaddafi Regime
The Gaddafi regime continues to face reports of high-level defections. A number of regime figures, including the head of Libya's de facto parliament and a former prime minister, are said to have fled to neighboring Tunisia. Meanwhile, Libya's former foreign minister, Ali Treki, said he had turned down a request to represent the Gaddafi regime at the United Nations. The Libyan government has apparently also asked Nicaragua's former foreign minister, Miguel D'Escoto Brockmann, to serve at the United Nations on its behalf, but there is confusion around whether the request has been formalized. The news follows the defection of Libyan Foreign Minister Moussa Koussa, who is now in Britain after crossing over from Libya to Tunisia. A Gaddafi spokesperson confirmed Koussa's defection but insisted the Libyan government remains intact.
Spokesperson: "They are here. They are doing their jobs. And if some of them left in the last few hours, maybe I did not hear about him leaving. You know, it would usually be on a mission. Because we try to negotiate with the world, our officials do travel daily, by the way, and they do come back daily, by the way."
U.N.: "Dramatic" Humanitarian Situation in Libya
The death toll from weeks of fighting in Libya is unknown, but it is believed thousands have been killed. Speaking in Cairo, the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees António Guterres appealed for humanitarian access to civilians victimized by the conflict.
António Guterres: "I also would like to say how concerned we are with the humanitarian situation in Libya. There is a lot of discussion in the world, a lot of coverage of the military and the political aspect of the conflict, but very little attention to the humanitarian dramatic situation in the country."
Ohio Enacts Anti-Union Law, Opponents Seek Referendum
Ohio's Republican Governor John Kasich has signed into law a measure stripping public workers of collective bargaining rights and barring them from striking. The legislation will affect over 360,000 workers, making Ohio the biggest state so far to curb the rights of public sector employees. In addition to undoing collective bargaining, the law forces public workers to pay at least 15 percent of their healthcare premiums, removes automatic pay increases, and makes it more difficult for unions to collect dues. Opponents say they'll attempt to undo the law by putting it to a public referendum.
Wisconsin GOP Won't Enforce Anti-Union Law Following Injunction
Wisconsin Republicans have announced they will stop trying to enforce their anti-union law following a judge's ruling it has not yet taken effect. On Thursday, Dane County Circuit Judge Maryann Sumi reinforced a temporary restraining order she had initially issued last month blocking the measure's implementation. Sumi had ruled Republican lawmakers were likely in violation of state open meeting laws when they pushed the legislation through. Earlier this week, Republicans and top state officials had said they would ignore the order and enforce the law's provisions.
NH, OK Lawmakers Advance Anti-Union Bills
The push to pass anti-union legislation is being mirrored in states across the country. On Thursday, lawmakers in New Hampshire and Oklahoma advanced measures that would weaken public sector unions.
Maine GOP Seeks Undoing of Child Labor Protections
In Maine, Republican lawmakers are pushing two bills that would roll back parts of the state's child labor laws. The first measure would let employers pay workers under the age of 20 a full $2.25 less per hour than Maine's minimum wage for their first 180 days on the job. The bill would also eliminate the maximum number of hours a minor 16 years of age or older can work on a school day. The second would allow 16- and 17-year-old teenagers to work one hour later on school nights.
GOP: No Deal Reached in Budget Showdown
Talks continue on Capitol Hill over a budget agreement to avert a government shutdown. Senate Democrats have rejected a measure approved by the Republican-controlled House to cut federal spending by $61 billion. This week, the Obama administration said Democrats and Republicans had agreed to cut $33 billion, which would be the largest one-time reduction in U.S. history. But on Thursday, Republican leaders said no commitments have been made.
USAID: GOP Budget Cuts Would Kill 70,000 Children Worldwide
Republicans want to impose drastic funding cuts on longtime right-wing targets such as National Public Radio, Planned Parenthood and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. Foreign aid would also take a significant hit. The nation's top foreign aid official is warning the Republicans' budget bill would lead to the deaths of 70,000 children who rely on U.S. assistance worldwide. Testifying before a House panel, USAID administrator Rajiv Shah said the Republican measure, known as H.R. 1, would force cutbacks to spending on malaria control, immunizations and childbirth attendants. Shah called the 70,000 estimate a "conservative" figure.
Residents Near Damaged Japanese Power Plant Told to Prepare for Lengthy Displacement
Displaced residents of areas near Japan's stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant have been told their evacuation may last for months. Thousands of people have been living in temporary shelters since the March earthquake and tsunami badly damaged the plant. The announcement comes as high levels of radiation have been found in groundwater near the plant for the first time. Radioactive iodine was found at 10,000 times the legal limit. The Japanese government, meanwhile, is reportedly considering using public funds to buy a controlling stake in the plant's owner, Tokyo Electric Power Company, in order to exert greater control over the recovery effort.
Gbagbo, Ouattara Forces Clash in Abidjan
Ivory Coast leader Laurent Gbagbo is battling to remain in power as rival Alassane Ouattara's forces surround the main city of Abidjan. Much of the fighting is concentrated around Gbagbo's heavily fortified presidential palace. On Thursday, Ouattara's prime minister, Guillaume Soro, said Gbabgo's days at the palace are numbered.
Guillaume Soro: "Gbagbo is finished... We are organizing, and we think that things are over now, and Gbagbo must resign, himself."
Saleh Withdraws Offer to Step Down Amidst Ongoing Protests
Protests are continuing in Yemen against embattled U.S.-backed President Ali Abdullah Saleh. Thousands of people have flooded the streets of the capital, Sana'a, to mark the dozens of people killed in Saleh's crackdown on the popular uprising. Saleh has withdrawn an offer to step down by the end of the year following the collapse of talks with the opposition.
6 U.S. Troops Killed in Afghanistan
At least six U.S. soldiers have been killed in eastern Afghanistan over the past two days. The Pentagon says the troops were part of the same operation but were killed in three separate incidents.
Whistleblower Sues California Nuclear Plant over Firing
A former manager at California's San Onofre nuclear power plant is suing the facility's owners for allegedly firing him in retaliation for reporting safety concerns. Paul Diaz says officials at Southern California Edison fired him shortly after the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission ordered the company to address what it called a "chilling effect" on addressing workplace safety. Diaz's lawsuit says the NRC first investigated the plant after it received anonymous reports of infractions, including "shortcuts on testing new generators, unreported safety violations, falsifying records, promoting a culture of cover-up" and ignoring chronic fatigue amongst overburdened workers.
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Juan González on How Puerto Rico's Economic "Death Spiral" is Tied to Legacy of Colonialism
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By Amy Goodman and Denis Moynihan
On the night of Oct. 20, 2014, Laquan McDonald, a 17-year-old African-American teenager in Chicago, was walking down the street when two police cruisers sped up to him. Officers jumped out, and at least one of them, Jason Van Dyke, began firing. Laquan fell to the ground, his final, painful moments caught on the dashboard video camera of a third police vehicle that had arrived just seconds before. Laquan spun as he was shot. Two bullets hit him in the back. As the video clearly shows, the bullets were pumped into him, evidenced by clouds of dust exploding off the pavement. This week, on the day the video was released to the public by court order, Officer Van Dyke was charged with first-degree murder — 400 days after he killed Laquan McDonald.
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On Saturday, Democracy Now! host Amy Goodman appeared on MSNBC to talk about the 2015 elections, drug policy and the future of healthcare in Kentucky under newly-elected Republican governor Matt Bevin.
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"Numbing & Horrible": Former Drone Operator Brandon Bryant on His Haunting First KillNov 20, 2015
Journalist on Shooting of Laquan McDonald By Chicago Police Officer: "It Was An Horrific Execution"Nov 24, 2015


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