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Why writing a Windows compatible file server is (still) hard
I don't often write about my day to day work, but sometimes I run across a problem that is so intransigent that it was a triumph when I finally fixed it. If you take an engineering job in the software industry, this is the kind of thing you might end up working on. If you find this column fun and interesting, then you might be a good candidate for a network engineer. Even if you don't I hope you'll appreciate the insane level of detail network engineers have to know on your behalf, to make something as simple as "saving a file" work seamlessly across operating systems.
One of the remedies imposed on Microsoft after they lost the European Union workgroup-server anti-trust case was the requirement to publish the full specifications for third party software to interoperate with their operating systems. They are still in the process of doing this, but there are now thousands of pages of documentation out there, in theory fully specifying the Server Message Block/Common Internet File System (SMB/CIFS) protocol that Samba and Windows file servers implement. So surely anyone and their auntie (assuming your auntie is a network engineer :-) can now write their own SMB/CIFS server by just reading this copious documentation. After all, now it's all documented how hard can it be?
A bug I fixed this week illustrates why I still think Samba is the leading choice for interoperability between Windows and Linux/UNIX systems. It concerns a strange tale of Microsoft Office and the "Offline Files" remote synchronization feature. "Offline Files" in Microsoft Windows allows a user to save a version of a file they're working on from a remote file system on their local laptop, and have it re-synchronized to a server when they get back online.
A user of Samba reported a bug that showed conclusively that trying to synchronize a Microsoft Office file against a Samba server wasn't working. The Windows client "Sync Center" application kept telling the user that the file on the remote Samba disk had been changed since it was saved, and he knew this wasn't the case.
It got stranger. It only happened with Vista, not with XP or Windows 2003. It only happened with Microsoft Office 2003 (all other versions of Office worked fine). It only reliably happened with Microsoft Excel, no other Microsoft Office application. Have I mentioned how much I hate Microsoft Excel? I quake in fear whenever I see an Excel interoperability bug logged against Samba. That application is perverse in the things it will do to a remote file server.
I looked at my nice new shiny downloaded Microsoft documentation. There was nothing related to this problem in there. The document describing the precise behavior of an NTFS filesystem as seen over the wire from an SMB/CIFS server is yet to be finished. They're still working on it. O.K. so let me check what happens when you use this version of Excel to do the very same thing against Windows. Maybe it's a real bug that fails against a Microsoft file server too, stranger things have been known? No, it worked fine against a Windows 2003 server, which to be honest did not surprise me. Microsoft tests the hell out of Microsoft Office before shipping any software that interacts with it in any way.
Right, time to get out the big guns. A debug log from Samba at our highest logging level, and a network packet capture trace (using the Open Source software "wireshark") of when the problem was happening. Looking at the log didn't show any obvious errors, other than the fact that Excel does an insane number of operations over the network to do something as simple as a "Save File" (if you've ever wondered why Excel is slow, look at what it does over a network). A brief glance at the network capture trace didn't help either, everything looked fine except that on the save operation to the Samba server Excel strangely decided to abort half way through.
This was getting more interesting. It seemed to be a generic failure of the "Save" operation, nothing to do with the "Sync" feature at all. So let's test saving an Excel file against a Samba share without the "Sync" feature turned on in the client. Surely this must work, we also never ship a version of Samba without testing against Microsoft Office. Yes indeed, a normal save worked fine. So it was something to do with the "Sync" feature. But what could it be?
The only thing to do was to do a second wireshark trace from the client to a Windows 2003 server, and then compare the two packet traces, the "bad" against the "good", packet by packet.
Except of course it's not that easy (nothing in Windows interoperability ever is :-). Due to the differences in response times between servers, slight differences in supported features, and of course the fact that the Samba architecture is completely different from that of the Windows CIFS server, the packet streams soon become very different. But after you've been doing this work for seventeen years, you start to recognize the fingerprints of the broad actions that clients are trying to do, even with a protocol as chatty on the network as SMB/CIFS.
It took a couple of weeks of staring at the packet traces, on and off, but I eventually narrowed it down to a difference once Excel had written a temporary file out to the remote disk. Things started to be very different (and obviously wrong) at that exact point. So I started to look at the packets very closely.
The client was trying to set a "created" time stamp, to make the temporary file pretend to have been created at exactly the time as the original file. Now one of the interesting things in writing Samba is that is has to run on top of POSIX. A POSIX system is very different from Windows, so one of the challenges we have is to be able to emulate the different Windows features on top of standard POSIX.
A POSIX file system doesn't have a "create" time stamp, so when we're reporting back to Windows when a file was created, we have to look at all the available time stamps from the system, and just pick the earliest. This has always worked in the past, but maybe we'd finally run into a situation where we need that exact create time stamp as set by the client.
So I spent part of a day adding a temporary "created" time stamp into Samba, only held in memory. If this worked and fixed the bug I'd then find somewhere to store this on disk (probably in an "extended attribute").
No, this still didn't fix it. This was starting to make me very angry as it made no sense. I stared at the packet traces again. Even more closely. Then something jumped out at me.
The SMB/CIFS protocol has a feature where a client can be notified when a change is made on a remote file or directory. It's called a "change notify". Normally it's used to allow a client to discover when another client is modifying the same file system (it's the reason Windows "Explorer" windows spontaneously refresh with new files if a work colleague modifies the directory you're looking at). But even if a client modifies the file itself, the server still must send "change notify" packets to let the client know a file it has just requested to be modified has actually been modified. At the point in the packet stream just after the create time stamp change was requested the Windows server was sending a "change notify" packet, but the Samba server was sending the "change notify" after the file was written to instead. It was exactly the same packet, surely that couldn't be the problem?
I looked at our code. As POSIX can't store a created time stamp, if the client requests it to be changed (and no other time stamps) we simply return a success code. But we weren't sending a "change notify" back after this request, as technically we weren't changing the time at this point. Instead we were sending it back after the file write, when we were changing the file. So I added code to send the "change notify" back after the time stamp change.
And the bug disappeared!
I went into one of my colleague's office and kicked the hell out of one of the much loved Google beanbags, all the while screaming obscenities into the air for a good five minutes. He looked on with bemused amusement. I finally calmed down enough to explain the problem. One packet being returned at the wrong time. One single mis-timed packet caused a ripple effect in the Windows client file system software that was seen all the way up in the complex user interface of only that particular version of Excel, when interacting with the "Offline Files" feature, only on Windows Vista.
The remaining task was to add a regression test into our test suite, so that this specific bug is tested for before we release any new versions of Samba. The code isn't done until it's properly tested. But at least the user is now happy.
Interoperability with Windows is hard. But somebody has to do it. And if you're going to do something, you might as well try and do it well (and try and have some fun at the same time) :-) .
Stop the press. As I go to publish this the user still occasionally reports the failure even with the patch, just not as often. Looks like there may be a secondary timing effect in play as well. Oh well, no one can say this job is dull.
Jeremy Allison
Samba Team.
San Jose, California.
30th July 2009.
Serenity now....Serenity now....
Hoochie Mamamama..........
That was me Jeremy: Serenity Now....
The subject at hand
Well, gee. If all you're gonna talk about is Microsoft, maybe you should call this "Chumps D'Lux".
Just kidding. I am an admirer of your work and appreciate the insights you provide through your blog.
...but fascinating. The real frustration is that the problem has not been completely solved though.
If only you had better documentation eh?
I once worked on a realtime
I once worked on a realtime project. We too "had a bug". After much testing I found that the interface worked for 21 of every 23 seconds. The designer's comment: "I didn't design it to work that way."
You do great work. Thank you, for samba, and this blog...
You remind me of ...
... the stork (from the latest Pixar's short movie Partly Cloudy) that delivers the baby ram, alligator, porcupine and shark. Tough work, but someone's got to do it.
Good job, and well done! :)
No regressions?
Introducing this timing fix introduced no regressions? Amazing!
None that our test suites can find.
And they are pretty thorough. Microsoft use them to test for regressions between different versions of Windows.
Follow up
I'd really love to see a follow up to this, because the update at the end has piqued my curiousity. I'm not a network engineer, or even a programmer, but I do play Magic: the Gathering (this is a strange example, but bear with me), and I'm a real stickler for the rules - exact wordings of the cards, exact steps in each of the phases. It irritates me no end when people start doing things out of sequence, or skipping steps, because doing things like that has the potential to really crew up the game (and don't even get me started on the new rules!). I believe networking protocols must be very much the same, so maybe I'd make a good engineer :P.
So, what's the big picture here?
Microsoft's abusive monopoly does not (really) obey the courts and acts as if it is above the law (because they can and do, buy it).
Also, the biggest picture is, Microsoft software is not in the best interest of you, the computing public. It certainly is propitiatory and not conducive to interoperability.
Conclusion: You, (yes you) would be better off using open software and supporting it's faster and most progressive improvement and enjoying it. For POTENTIALLY greater user friendliness, including much easier interoperability.
One of the last advantages of "Windows" is it's number of users, which is dropping. BUT, we can only further facilitate open software adoption (migration and usage) by building a VERY familiar system, without ANY measurable losses AND with OBVIOUS and promoted, EXTRA benefits. We are almost there but we are not there yet! Therefore we need to slow down and major on the majors. We simply need the current XP users. It really that simple. That's the only way that some of the Microsoft aligned hardware device makers will completely help. It the ONLY way to fight the monopoly abuse. Abuse that is only obvious to the technical among us.
You are either a developer who cares (about coding for the 75% of the population; that are not technical) or you are a developer who could care less. We need to step up our game. Now is the time to gather the current XP users. It's not too late; but soon, things could be slowed. If you want to see success, we need a majority. That, is the goal. The competition, is the status quo.
1. Familiarity. (With No losses.) No holds barred.
2. Plus GREAT, easily promoted; exclusive benefits.
Do you have ideas on
Do you have ideas on (technically) why the failure with Samba happened only from Vista running that Excel version? Does that early packet sent happen in other Windows/Excel combinations that you have tried? [I know the problem hasn't been resolved "completely".]
When Microsoft products fail their own documented behavior (was that the case here?) or write docs with gaps or other problems (and hence foil/frustrate interoperability), do you know if there are any EU enforcement actions taken (like fines)?
Bugs will always exist, but that should not be used as an excuse to preserve Microsoft's significant market share.
Mon Dieu!
Good luck finding the second part of the bug. It'll make for interesting reading
Debugging Assistance ?
Great bit of debugging Jeremy. If you would like any assistance in the debugging of the Windows protocols and verifying the Windows protocol documents for this scenario just let me know or drop an e-mail to firstname.lastname@example.com. Nick and I are more than willing to assist. We'll also look at this scenario in relation to the various existing and under-development protocol documents to see whether any improvements can be made.
Hongwei Sun
Protocol Team
Thanks for the offer of help.
Thanks Hongwei, I'm off home sick at the moment, but I have one more theory to test before I pass it over to you to look at :-). Look for a bug report tomorrow (or at the latest Thursday).
Thanks !
Same bug, different mechanism?
I've noticed that local (non-ssh) rsync fails to mounted samba shares as it cannot properly determine if the remote file has changed. Files get copied over needlessly. I suspect this might be a more reproducible failure mode for you as it is very likely a similar issue regarding working with file metadata to detect changes. I've seen it on most distros where the command is run on a linux box to copy files to and from a windows one.
More General?
This is a good story, but do you think maybe its a bit unfair to single out CIFS/SMB for this? I think your story generalizes quite well to "Why writing (real software that interacts with real legacy code) is (still) hard"
I mean, say you were trying to implement something as simple as an FTP client that actually worked against all the various FTPd implementations in the world, I bet it would be insanely difficult, and FTP is both an open standard and incredibly feature-poor compared to SMB/CIFS.
The documentation MS released is garbage. It is not nearly at the level needed for implementation. Some of it is flat-out wrong or misleading.
just my naive thoughts on documentation
I imagine that from an MS perspective goes (for this particular issue), something like "the code is the documentation" might be their explanation. In other words, it's got to be pretty difficult (if not impossible) to document something that has gone through years/decades of change and still maintain a truth to specification. How many human-hours of work has gone into the cifs protocol?
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that if you were to document every aspect and nuance to explain behavior of a piece of software, then you're effectively just (re-)writing the software aren't you? In which case you're basically screwed (cynical viewpoint I know). Not that I don't appreciate the work done by the SAMBA team - just that it's got to be painful.
Reminds me of http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/02/19.html
Best wishes
It is hard to emulate complex systems
I understand how amazingly difficult finding such bugs can be and that's probably why they call programming the art of debugging! However I don't think it is fair to blame MS for everything. Debugging complex software is difficult. Debugging software that emulates another complex software is extremely difficult. The fact that POSIX filesystems do not have an equivalent for every single feature of another filesystem will make life difficult and I doubt even if MS had documented absolutely everything completely and correctly we wouldn't have another hard to find/understand interaction that would be hard to debug. Anyway, it's great you could find and fix the bug!
Bug in Samba
This is simply a bug in Samba which, like many bugs in Samba, are born from a lack of rigor and/or an inability to work past POSIX.
When a timestamp of a file is modified, the change request must be sent immediately afterwards, before the next acknowledgement of the next request in the stream. To do anything else is silly. The file has been written to; the fact that Samba doesn't actually write to the file is a bug in Samba, plain and simple. In fact, before change notify support was even designed, this behavior should have been characterized by exhaustive automated testing against Windows.
Samba is rife with crap like this, probably because it was written by systems administrators and not professional programmers. I'm not surprised that Sun and Apple are moving away from Samba to their own, scratch built implementations, and other vendors are moving to Likewise.
Let's look at the alternatives.
Firstly, yes it was a premature optimization bug which is now fixed. All software has these things, get over it. The complexity of the change notify interaction with all other parts of the system means that it's not possible to test every possible path through the code. We have a good set of changenotify tests, which of course is being extended to catch this very issue. I can say this because Microsoft also use our tests in the same way that we do, to catch regressions. If their stuff "rife with crap like this" ? (Some would say yes of course :-).
Apple are moving away from any GPL code in their distribution. It matters not how good/bad Samba is to them, so long as it's GPL they're in the process of getting rid of it. They're even moving to a compiler they own. I believe the GPLv3 democratic process scared the life out of them :-).
Sun bought the Procom CIFS stack and are busy adding it to their Solaris kernel. I still doubt the wisdom of adding code the complexity of CIFS into a stable kernel (I doubt the Linux developers would have any of it) and what it will do to their stability. It's still feature poor (no krb5 integration last time I checked), and specific to one platform. Typical Sun, doesn't play well with others. Let's see what Oracle decides to do with it. Some of their developers are very good though, and I'd welcome them working with us on Samba once Oracle brings the axe down on unnecessary projects.
Likewise code, the last time I looked at it, was using the mtime as the create time. This just isn't going to work long term but it's still very much a work in progress - 17 years behind Samba, so let's see if they (or others) can fix it.
Let's look at another competitor, the NetApp CIFS stack. If you look at their performance on the wire you see quite an interesting story. Many of the trans2 calls return with "Unknown level" responses, their change notify story isn't finished and there are several other gaps in their implementation. We aim for completeness, they aim for "what the Windows client market will bear" as a minimal implementation that will sell. They put resources into doing SMB2 ahead of us, but if you don't have the basic protocol correctness then it will eventually bite you hard.
Your last comment I found very amusing, not the least because the only developer we had working on Samba who started as a professional system administrator now works on Likewise full time :-). Still he's a very talented developer, and I miss him.
Network Engineering?
I realize this will come across as a stupid gripe to a lot of people but here goes anyway:
As a network engineer (Cisco, Juniper, Extreme, Foundry et al.), I was expecting an article on network engineering and how some sort of routing anomaly was causing problems with an application.
What you've described is a complex (and impressively researched) _software_ engineering bug. Just because the software operates over the network, does not make this a network engineering problem. Network engineering refers to the layout, implementation and management of networking equipment- Routers, switches, etc.
Microsoft seems to have started this confusion- you never hear a Unix admin call themselves a network engineer despite the fact that Unix systems were networked long before Windows even existed.
Vista networking
It's not just SAMBA that Vista doesn't play very well with, the entire networking implementation is slow and riddled with annoying bugs which Microsoft don't seem capable of fixing.
Somehow I think that Windows 7 will be exactly the same!
Thank you!
Thank you and to the whole Samba team. You're doing a great job.
Where do I donate (without PayPal)?
Why are you using Windows anyway?
You shouldn't waste time running a server with Windows anyway, it just doesn't cut it compared to real server OSes.
Windows Server makes things slow, inefficient and very, *very* insecure. IIS itself is enough to scare most serious admins away.
Thank's Jeremy....
I,m so happy read your post, I'm not coder...so i'm waitting almost 3 year to konw what happen with SAMBA and excel. 3 yrs ago I deploy file server using open SuSE 10 + SAMBA, my client allways complain coz MS Excel (2002 & 2003) suddenly close without any error warning when open and working with excel file from server.... Until I must make hard descition to move to windows 2003 server to solve the problem (it's solve with w2k3). I hope Samba Team will release new samba server soon. I will send my support to samba team....Great work.
Best Regard
Darma Yasa, Putu Teguh - Bali Island Indonesia


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Dr. Philip Shrake joined RCOG in 1998 as a radiation oncologist at Radiotherapy Clinics of Georgia Gwinnett County in Lawrenceville, Georgia. He has been practicing radiation oncology for over 20 years.
Dr. Shrake graduated from the Indiana University School of Medicine in 1989, before spending time on a medical mission at Raleigh Fitkin Memorial Hospital in Swaziland. Afterwards, he returned to the U.S. and completed his residency at the University of Cincinnati.
Dr. Shrake worked in private practice in Kentucky and Texas before moving to Georgia and joining RCOG. "Gwinnett County Radiation Oncology Center provides patients in this area with access to the best cancer care available," said Dr. Shrake. "I am delighted to be a member of a team fully committed to excellence in cancer treatment."
Dr. Shrake is originally from Indiana. In his free time he enjoys tennis, golf and running.
Medical School:
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Board Certification:
American Board of Radiology, Radiation Oncology, 1995
Professional Associations:
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To see Dr. Shrake's published articles, click here.
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I'M NOT GOING TO ARGUE too much with the listing of hardest punchers, but the reasoning behind this is all wrong. to base the hardest puncher on the KO percentage is misleading.
Most of the guys on this list I do not believe are true one-punch KO artists.
The hardest punchers should be based on the devastating effects of ideally a SINGLE blow on an opponent or a short combination.
One of my favourite All-Time fighters is WILFREDO BAZOOKA GOMEZ, who amassed a record 17 straight stoppage or KO victories in world title defences at Super Bantamweight (in a time when being a world champion really meant something), but despite KO'ing or stopping the vast majority of his opponents right up to Jnr Lightweight, I would consider him more of a boxer-puincher (he had vastly underrated boxing skills and was very good on his pins)!
The same could be said of many other boxers, such as a Joe Calzaghe and even a Marvin Hagler.
These guys can take you out with one shot, but more than likely it will be done by a wearing down type of fight rather than one shot.
There are very, very few boxers currently active who can take a guy out with one shot, but LUCAS MATTHYSSE is definitely one.
His one-shot right hand counterpunch KO of Mike Dallas in the 1st round comes to mind. Also, the effects of his blows on KingPete this weekend are another example as they temporarily short-circuited him, much like a Mike Tyson blow did in the 80's….
I would argue that JuanMa's KO of champion and fellow hard-hitter, Ponce De Leon was more noteworthy than that of Concepcion, but that is by-the-by!Posted May 22, 2013 3:30 am
Tark- yeah you are right about tarver against jones and glen Johnson ko over jones were softer punch but he was out earlier on ….
One of my favorite ko ,s is Marciano's over Walcott …Posted May 22, 2013 2:56 am
Squared > thanks ! And yes you are absolutely right about Gary c. Left hook ,I totally forgot about him ,I remember his ko over norton it was one of the nastiest one i ever saw …Posted May 21, 2013 8:53 pm
Here is my list of all time hardest haveyweight punchers.
1.left jab.holmes,wlad klitchko,Forman
2.right straight punch. Wlad klitchko by far the hardest ,vitaly
3.right straight from standstill and the fastest right .definetly muhamed Ali
4.left hook .mike Tyson ,wlad klitchko
5.right hook .jack Dempsey ,Forman ,Tyson
6.left uppercut . Forman by far
7. Right uppercut .forman Lewis ,Tyson
8. Right over right hand . Lewis ,vitally klitchkoPosted May 21, 2013 7:29 pm
Tark > are you freakin serious bro?? You want to tell us that just because wlad lost to purity sanders and peters he hits softer than vitaly ???? Come on bro you can't compare hard punches that way and you know it ,bring us a different argument than this silly one pleeeease…Posted May 21, 2013 7:19 pm
K2FAN…Think again the best annual throw in shot put in 1976 was by Oldfield 22.45m The best annual throw in 2012 was by Cantwell it was 22.31m Again not huge gaps overall over the years in this sport on the whole.Posted May 21, 2013 6:18 pm
Patrice Jones… "Wladimir was hitting him infinitely harder." … LMAO. Infinitely harder. That's a new one. Peter was DONE.. Vitali smashed him and he couldn't fight anymore. Chambers fought him BEFORE Wladimir fought him, and Peter couldn't even mount a charge against a light hitting, overweight Chambers he was so gone.. But Peter still went longer with Wladimir than he did with Vitali. Those things tell me he wasn't being hit infinitely harder..
Let's be serious. Peter, Sanders, and Puritty knocked Wladimir down eight (8) times and beat him twice–both times by stoppage … Vitali beat them all, stopping them all. That and Vitali's better KO ratio tells you all you need to know.Posted May 21, 2013 5:38 pm
K2FAN…Yes you proved my point.A primative sport like shot put overall sees little improvement over the years.The best throw 30yrs ago was better then the best throw in more modren times.A sport like shot put or boxing dont depend on a evolution of equitment like for example modren golf clubs.And thats why I was comparing shot put with boxing read my post more carefull and you see I wasnt wrong you just didnt understand what I was saying.Posted May 21, 2013 5:24 pm
K-2- Fan
dwc ; I don't know why you brought in the shot put competition into this
K O Ratio don't mean a thing……It's how many you have KOd and Big George is well in front of the KlitzPosted May 21, 2013 1:20 pm
Brazilian Boxing Fan
In my opinion, Wladimir Klitschko is the hardest-punching heavyweight boxer today.Posted May 21, 2013 10:18 am
Bill Patrice Jones
Tark that's not accurate. Wladimir took Sam Peter's chin in the rematch not Vitali. There's not muh sense using Peter's performances against the Klitschkos as a measuring stick for who hits harder because he fought in three completely different ways. In the first Wladimir fight Peter had a cast iron chin. No one was going to put him down easily or hurt him easily that night. If Sam had learned to box and not get hit so much when he was up and coming he could have gone sooo far based on his chin and power. When Sam fought Vitali in 2008 lots of stuff was going on. He hadn't trained, was arrogant, not well prepared and not motivated. He didn't stay away from Vitali because he was scared. Vitali went backwards beautifully the whole fight and Peter was trying to box instead of brawl. He thought he could do the same things he had done against Toney and Maskaev (who were his own size and NOT Vitali). Vitali hit Peter a ludicrous number of times but though his face was swollen Peter was never really wobbled at all. He gave up that night he wasn't near being knocked out. When Peter rematched Wladimir he was being much much more aggressive. Coming forward fast and bobbing. Wladimir butchered Peter that night. I saw that iive, and I saw the Vitali fight live, Wladimir was hitting him infinitely harder. Mega bombs from round 2 onwards. It was like Lewis Vs Tyson. That's what finished Sam, in the crowd it looked like he was going to actually die on his feet. Wladimir hits much harder than Vitali. Since the comeback I've never really thought Vitali is as hard a puncher as he was before. He's a much better boxer, but not so devastating with his single shots.Posted May 21, 2013 5:01 am
And so what if hearns was smaller than hagler ???? He still managed to shorten Leonard's life span by giving him hell in their fight …and please most fans at the time thought hearns punching power would be to much for hagler who comes forward but hagler took everything and crush him!!!Posted May 21, 2013 3:03 am
Tark -thank god we have you tube to see the actual Leonard vs hagler fight …
Adrian you're crazy… Very few knowledgeable people thought Hearns was going to beat Hagler. Everyone thought he'd be killed. Leonard punched Tommy's head in and Hagler was a bigger puncher than Leonard, a welterweight.. Hagler was a full natrual middleweight, and whenever Hearns traded punches with anyone he came out on the short end of the stick..
Leonard beat Hagler easily.. He won 4 rounds right out of the gate because Hagler stupidly tried to show Ray up by boxing him out of an orthodox stance.. I LMFAO.. "YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME!!!" By the time time he switched to his normal style he was a mile behind.. Leonard ripped Hag's face with combinations in the last 30 seconds of most rounds.. The immobile Hagler couldn't do a thing about it.Posted May 21, 2013 2:01 am
Monzon would definitely beat them… Hagler??? Remember 99% also thought Tyson would KO Buster Douglas.. 99% also tought Hagler would beat a WW coming off a 3-year-layoff — Leonard.
It doesn't MATTER what anyone thinks.. Martinez had extremely fast hand and feet, was a very skilled boxer, and scored a lot of KO's over middleweights 6′ tall and taller.. Pavlik wasn't so great a boxer or technician, but Hagler never met anyone remotely as big and powerful as Pavlik, and never beat a really good boxer who was a natural middleweight anyway.. Before he went off the rails with alcohol, drugs, and women, Pavlik scored some extremely impressive KO's over undefeated Taylor, and good slugger Miranda.. He was undefeated and nobody to mess with at his best.Posted May 20, 2013 9:26 pm
Tark…Yes basketball players are getting bigger and better all around.But the point I was making was that somebody was crazy enough to say Jordan couldnt play today in the NBA that is just beyond crazy.That is how far some people will go to put down ATG players and try to say that a prime Jordan couldnt even make the team today…thats pure nonsence.Posted May 20, 2013 8:47 pm
Tark…Lets not forget baseball records were smashed by modren day roid users.And the frozen samples I guess will show if cheating has been going on in the last oylmpics.Maybe some people found ways around modren testing that will come out years from now with these frozen samples…jury could still be out on that issue.Posted May 20, 2013 7:39 pm
Tark…My point is that even in 20yrs the hvwt champ dosent have to be better then the k-bros(either one) Who ever it is could be pretty average in a bad divison that the k-bros would beat easy in their prime.Boxing like the shot put is alot less high tech overall then other sports..trunks..ring surface..dont add alot to the game like say modern golf clubs.The thing is I dont want to paint myself into a corner here Im not saying every old champ could beat a modren champ Im not saying that but there are stand outs in eras that could win at any time in a given day.Posted May 20, 2013 6:53 pm
Dane…Running tracks evolved alot along with starting blocks even footwear Owens would look that much better today with that stuff.Again would a prime Hagler or Carlos Mouzon beat a prime Pavlik or Sergio M. ???I think 99.9% would say yes…then how could that be if everythings getting better it goes against nature it goes against your type of logic.How could a fighter from Haglers era beat a champ today,its from a older era it cant happen.My point is this yes guys are getting better and bigger and sometimes stronger…but it dosent mean a stand out from another era couldnt compete and even beat guys from a modern era…example Mouzon or Hagler beats prime Pavlik or Sergio…older era beats more modren era.Ofcourse not all the time with every fighter Im not saying that,but a older era champ could beat a more modern era champ its silly to think it cant happen ever.Posted May 20, 2013 6:27 pm
dwc… Somebody doesn't have to be better than the Klitschko Bros 12 years from now… A single pro career lasts for more than 12 years unless you're Marciano, who only fought for 8 years.. You can be a world beater at 22 or at 38. Prime years for boxers are being expanded every generation.
But more than likely in 20 years the heavyweights will be better as a group.. There will be more people in the world and more boxers.. It's globally growing international sport and is bigger than ever worldwide.. Nothing primitive about it. Nothing primitive about sprinting or swimming and the new methods of training and improved techniques that squeeze out greater performance. Gloves, shoes, trunks, protectors, wrappings, nutrition, exercises, strength training, boxing technique, even the ring posts, ropes, and boxing surfaces … everything inches forward generation after generation every time somebody comes up with a better way of doing something..
Now we have plyometrics which have been proven to increase your stamina, speed, strength, explosiveness, and flexibility naturally.. Back in the 1970's steroids were legal and in wide use, but 98% of those records from the PED era have been shattered.. Today they're outlawed and they keep your testing samples frozen for decades so when they come up with new testing technologies they'll nail you retroactively and destroy your legacy forever.. Therefore there was less cheating in the 2012 Olympics than ever since PED's were outlawed—and more records broken.Posted May 20, 2013 6:27 pm
I agree with the list. But the most eye-catching ones, not-so-much.
Pac KO Hatton is the most eye-catching KO shot of Pacquiao's career.
Some sports evolve because of high-tech equitment..better running tracks..golf clubs..bats..skates..ect.Take a primative sport like shot put in 1976 the best throw beat the best throw in 2012 many records over the years are only slightly better because like boxing its pretty primative not depending on high-tech equitment.Again every era produces great players Jordan would play today and would still be great if he was in his prime.Lets not forget baseball records were broken because of drug cheats and the way people can scam and get around things today who knows how much more of this stuff is going on in sports today,everytime they find a way to test better they find another way to get around it.Again using the logic every era has to be better means 12yrs from now after the k-bros retire,the new champ HAS to be better then both of them.He cant be just a medicore champ with a field of bad hvwts. no he would have to be better.Again there are always stand outs who could be the best at anytime on a given day.And the 3 round fights in the olympics favored the Russians and Cubans at that time knowing they could train for that and thats all they would ever fight for,where the americans knew they would have to shift and devolpe different styles and look to the future and be at the time 15rd fighters they couldnt sit back and just fouces on being 3 round fighters for the rest of their life.Posted May 20, 2013 5:08 pm
Some batters awing for singles and some swing for homers. Tyson swing for homers.consequently he was considered a heavy hitter. Some fighters who do not have many KO,s only because they concentrate n out boxing the opponent,but it doesn't,t mean they can,t take you out withoneshot.Posted May 20, 2013 4:29 pm
@dwc… If you don't think basketball players are getting bigger, better, and more skilled offensively and defensively—on a global scale—you're crazy. Every generation you go back the evolution is more pronounced. Check Track & Field and Swimming records from 30 years ago, and compare them to today's records. Every sport evolves.
Amateur Boxing is a different game from the pros.. 3 rounds isn't long enough to wear Foreman out.. Dimitrenko could jump around like a kangaroo for 3 rounds and possibly beat Pulev—but a few more rounds he gets beaten into the floorboards. The Soviet Union didn't ramp up their amateur boxing program until the mid 80's when they brought in some coaches from Cuba. Now they have a very serious program of continuous improvement and the Klitschkos are a product of that. England got a later start but their boxing programs have been more productive over the last 20 years.
The pro game lends to the amateur game and recruits from the amateur game. Without the pro game amateurs have less to aspire to. The incentives are great because Ukrainian and other Eastern amateurs now have extremely wealthy world famous role models to inspire them. In America we haven't kept pace. We have the same danky, broken down gyms, poor funding, and poor officiating we've had for generations. A few more funding sources and more elite training facilities are beginning to emerge—and we'll probably climb back to the top in 30 years or so in the heavyweight class. However Jennings or Wilder might do something well before then. Compared to most sports we have a glaring weakness in our Olympic boxing results. It hasn't gone unnoticed.Posted May 20, 2013 4:05 pm
philly shell
Okay list, but changes :
Light Heavy – Kovalev 85.7%KO to Cloud's 76%
Light Middle – definately JAMES KIRKLAND (weak chin, but the best pure puncher) Kirkland 84%KOs to Alvarez 69.7%kos
Super Bantam – i know he got beat by Donaire, but I'd say Vic Darchinyan is a more murderous puncher (Vic – 62%ko; Doniare 60%ko) or Jorge Arce -64.7%Posted May 20, 2013 3:45 pm
Gonzo of Nazareth
Impersonating me is a crime punishable by immediate perma-banning on here. There's a good chance the mods will come round and give you a proper good hiding too.Posted May 20, 2013 3:22 pm
Gonzo the Dragonborn
Gonzo that's great broski your awesome duderinoPosted May 20, 2013 3:10 pm
Are you saying Jordan is to slow now for modern basketball..or in his prime???If your saying he cant play basketball today if he was in his prime your nuts…anyone knows that that knows anything about basketball even today he would be a great player if he was in his prime.As for the cold war era in Russia boxing that was their pros lets face it they only boxed..lived..ate..slept..boxing..didnt hold full time employment boxing was their job in Russia to me that is what a pro fighter does they live off boxing that equals pro.And I dont defend hvwt boxing in the states today it sucks and went downhill what will happen 10yrs from now…who knows.I was talking about a diffrent era when America had ATG fighters who proved themselfs and beat the best all over the world.If you want to call the russians who Ali..Foreman..Frasier..Tillman..beat amatures then well fine but I would define them as pros fighting in the olympics.I wouldnt consider the dream team USA basketball that played in the olympics anymore amatures then I would the russian fighters back in the cold war era.Posted May 20, 2013 3:02 pm
Vitali destroyed Sam Peter.. He took his chin.. After that fight Peter couldn't absorb a punch so Helenius and Wladimir flattened him—but they didn't stop him as fast or dominate him as easily as Vitali did. They also took more punches because Peter didn't fear their power as much. Puritty took everything Wladimir could throw for 11 rounds and stopped him. Vitali stopped Puritty..
Wladimir always said if he and Vitali fought Vitali would win—because he's bigger, taller, tougher, punches harder, and is a natural fighter—which Wladimir said he isn't. Wladimir won't be Heavyweight Champion at 41 like Vitali. If WK keeps going until he's 39, a hard up and coming puncher like Wilder or Pulev will shatter that glass chin again.
If Vitali hadn't been out for 4 years he would have 8 more KO's. The only Heavyweight Champion in history with a higher KO ratio then Vitlali is Marciano. Who fought only 5 men in world title fights. None of them were real heavyweights. Those 5 challengers had a combined 59 losses, 18 by KO, before they stepped into the ring with Rocky. They were all on the slide, and except for ancient light heavyweight Archie Moore, they were basically worn out.Posted May 20, 2013 3:01 pm
K-2- Fan
d w c ; I am not a child and there is NO russian in MY
Gonzo of Nazareth
Are you a bit stupid or are you full retard? Wlad doesn't even try to get most of his opponents out of there early these days. He prefers break them up with his jab before he brings out the heavy artillery and get them out of there. Say what you will about him, but he's unquestionably one of the most destructive punchers the sport has ever seen. Most of the time he relies on his straight right to get the job done, but his hooks, either left or right are absolutely devastating when he chooses to use them, especially so earlier on in his career when he was less bulky than he is today and he could get more leverage on them. David Haye is a huge puncher himself, but he swings from the fences with all his weight behind him with almost every shot, whereas Wlad rarely does that.. If Wlad loaded up on his hooks like that he could KO a bloody elephant with the power he'd generate.Posted May 20, 2013 1:36 pm
Wladimirs power?
Wladimir KIlitschko's power is flat out overrated. He NEVER and I mean NEVER stops his opponents early, and he seldom ever puts them down for the ten count. I haven't really seen him knock someone out concussively early on since he beat Ray Austin years and years ago. If Wladimir hit as hard as people say then he would definitely score waaay more KOs in under 5 rounds. They are always accumulation knockouts. He's got really big power but he's not a proper one punch KO man,Posted May 20, 2013 12:45 pm
GGG greatest middleweight based on what…what did he do that proves that….some k-bro. fans are 12yrs old kids that want to prove their russian background makes them the greatest boxers ever…FOOLISH KIDS.Yes Ali..Frasier..Foreman..Tillman..all beat the best russia had to offer in the olympics..and they were young guys beating grown men with big backgrounds.They beat the russian pros of their day.And k-bros beating prime Ali isnt that just YOUR opinion that you aswell cant prove.Like the saying goes opinions are like a-holes we all have them…But Jordan couldnt play in todays NBA even in his prime…thats all I had to hear,that says it all…foolish children.Posted May 20, 2013 12:30 pm
Didin't Matthysse one punch KO Mike Dallas last time out with a short counter? That was the KO for me. Spectacular and a weight class up!Posted May 20, 2013 12:30 pm
Gussy Finknottle
Edwin Valero was THE hardest puncher ever. A bad man thoughPosted May 20, 2013 11:48 am
K-2- Fan
Both K-Brothers hit HARD ! To deny this , or to compare them to " greats "
Jordan couldnt play basketball today in his prime…REALLY???Man some of these k-bro. fans say anything to prove a point…FOOLISH KIDS!!!Posted May 20, 2013 10:50 am
It's Me, Ernie
harriet, since when do BOTH BOXERS NEED TO BE OVER 200LBS to be considered a heavyweight fight?
You really need to learn more about the sport before making anymore incorrect statements.Posted May 20, 2013 10:28 am
Marquez has more devastating one-punch power than Pacquiao. With his chemist's assistance of course…but still, definitely better one-punch power. Pacquiao destroys you with pinpoint combinations, not one punch power.Posted May 20, 2013 9:58 am
Its still HAMMEDPosted May 20, 2013 9:55 am
tark,wladimir in his second fight with sam peter also knock out peter.and did what vitali couldn't do knock peter down. with vitali peter quit on his stool.with wladimir peter was on his back and out.Posted May 20, 2013 9:32 am
Its all relative to size but I have to say whilst not his biggest fan if you look at the combination of size, speed and technique then Wlad is the hardest puncher on the planet. Pound for pound I would go for Haye and Mathysse but the hardest puncher I have ever seen is Julian Jackson he could literally touch you and put you to sleep!Posted May 20, 2013 9:22 am
WILDER IS THE HARDEST HITTING HEAVYWEIGHT BY FAR!Posted May 20, 2013 8:54 am
Nadeem Hamed
Randall Bailey
Julian Jackson
All these guys spring to mind when Referees don't stop the fight on a TKO
cool nickname Ron Jeremy! :)Posted May 20, 2013 3:17 am
Harry >you are correct . Just because Tyson couldn't ko holy it dosent mean that Tyson didnt hit extreamly hard …Lewis got ko'd by Rahman but revenged his loss by a ko so it all depends of the way the fight folds!Posted May 20, 2013 1:12 am
I disagree with GGG being hardest puncher of the MWs. I would go with Chavez Jr., with Quillin closing in next as of late. Quillin has been showing serious power in all of his punches from the jab to the overhand right, and everything in between.Posted May 20, 2013 1:10 am
Ron Jeremy
…………….Looks like Wladimir Klitschko is The King of Boxing………………..
……………………….FM is not even on the list……………………………………..Posted May 20, 2013 12:55 am
WRONG TARK! Holyfield wasn't scared of Tysons punch power at all. does it mean tyson is a weak puncher??? that only means that Tysons SKILLS are not good enough for Holyfield. As for Sam Peter. in Vladimir KlichKO BOTH fights he came in in decent shape around 245 lbs. in the Vitaliy fight he came in in awful 265 lbs shape. AGAIN READ THIS, 265 LBS PETER WAS. A SLOW PLODDING PUNCHBAG….OK, CHRIS BYRD SAID VLADIMIR HITS HARDER. STEWARD SAID VLADIMIR HITS HARDER THAN LEWIS OR VITALIY. End of discussion.Posted May 20, 2013 12:50 am
The hardest right hook I think Tyson and jack Dempsey top the list ,hardest uppercut Forman
lol c'mon! look stupid??? hah!!! don't make me laugh dog! if you have a brain you got to understand that Marciano has not performed a single heavyweight fight! BOTH BOXERS GOT TO BE ABOVE 200 LBS. His resume is 0-0. Joe Louis is 11-0. Clay is 28-4, 8 KO'S (pathetic record), Holmes is 60-5, bums beater Forman is 59-5. rapist tyson is 45-6. Lenny Lewis is 39-2. bums beater Nikolay Valuev is 50-2. Vitaliy KlichKO is 45-2…VLADIMIR KLICHKO IS 60-3, 52 KO'S. THIS IS THE BEST HEAVYWEIGHT RECORD OF ALL TIME. I operate with FACTS. I don't invent nothing. I just compare heavyweights according to common rules. so c'mon dude, the only oldfasion stupid nostalgist is YOU.Posted May 20, 2013 12:37 am
Bears > I agree ,when it comes to a straight right punch wlad has the hardest straight punch of all time without question …I think Ali straight right was the hardest from the standstill and the fastest !Posted May 20, 2013 12:31 am
Big rich>It was other way around ,it was haye who didn't take any risk against wlad not wlad….it is not easy ko'ing boxers if they don't engage and they just run without trying to punch,just like kingpin did against vitaly or Mosley against paqiao after he got droped by paqiao …Posted May 20, 2013 12:27 am
BEARS (with a quak quak here and a quak quak there here a quak there a quak everywhere a quak quak)
Vitaly used his movement and range better than wlad and didn't really clinch as much. Sam peter just couldn't get anywhere because vitaly was land power punches from a mile out. I defintly think wlads strait right maybe the most powerful punch of al time at heavy most stopping power. I think it has more stoping power than anything vitaly has.Posted May 20, 2013 12:26 am
I know yall don't know me yet but u will. I have to put myself on that list among heavyweightsPosted May 20, 2013 12:03 am
You have to have intimidating punching power to keep burley punchers off of you… Peter didn't come near Vitali because he was scared to death…but he came right after Wladimir for the 12.. Sanders took a chance but soon backed off when he felt Vitali's shots whizzing past his ears… Wladimir's KO ratio went down when he failed to get those guys out.. Vitali's went up when he got them out.. Sure Wladimir isn't going to have any problems hitting Byrd. The man is super small and can't punch. And it took a lot of shots. Vitali's left arm was useless against Byrd so that's not a comparison.
One punch KO's where the opponent is stretched out like Pacquiao or Williams look picturesque, but are rare for anyone.. You catch somebody perfect and they're out cold for the night—no matter how strong their chin is. You can't tell by that.. Vitali cooled guys like Sosnowski, Hyde, Kirk Johnson, and a few others, Wladimir scored a few one-punchers as well. The objective criteria are how they measure up against the same opponents and who was afraid to trade with them and who wasn't—and their KO ratios. Anyone can say, "I think this guy punched harder." That's not an objective criterion. KO ratios are objective. Vitali missed 4 years of his career when he was in his early 30's and still has the highest KO ratio of any Heavyweight Champion in over 50 years.Posted May 19, 2013 11:44 pm
Kid chocalate hardest punching middle weightPosted May 19, 2013 11:41 pm
Hardest puncher today, Manny Pacquiao hands down. Hatton, Diaz, Cotto, Morales Barrera, Margarito, De La Hoya. Decisive destruction at the hands of a man many claim to be the best ever. Manny has unequaled power, and he breaks bones and hurts people badly.Posted May 19, 2013 11:33 pm
Nigel benn and the hitman hearns.Posted May 19, 2013 11:27 pm
Gerald McClelan and Julian Jackson top 10 all time for sure…For now here's my list.
agree with you anonymousPosted May 19, 2013 11:04 pm
Harry – Where did I mention Louis, Marciano or Ali? Stop your lies because you continue to look stupid. Also It was my opinion that Vitali beats Wlad due to being tougher. Nothing to do with punching power. Again you look stupid. However, as you have brought it up, I look in all the record books and see in the Heavy Weight division all 3 of those names above plus Wlad. I can't seem to find this Super Heavy Weight division you keep banging on about. Try sticking to the facts instead of Harry's world of substantiated rumour.Posted May 19, 2013 11:01 pm
TARK what are you arguing about??? about PUNCHING POWER??? Then your completely out of subject. Sanders and Peter knockdowns have nothing to do with Vlads punch power, it "probably" have something to do with Sanders and Peters punch power, don't you think??? As we are talking about Vladimir's and Vitaliy's punch power then Chris Byrd's opinion means a lot as he has been fighting both of em. Even in the KLITSCHKO MOVIE Byrd confirms that Vladimir hits a lot harder than his brother.Posted May 19, 2013 10:56 pm
Rating punching power is hard. Some fighters have more wins by KO, because they are a better boxer, or throw more punches, wear the opponents down, or fought worse opposition. So simple looking at ko stats doesn't state a fighter hits harder. An example is vitali has a higher Ko percentage but I think Vladimir hits harder. Other example might be Carl Froch Athur Abram. Pac is a hard puncher but except on a few occasion he simply wears fighters down. Mayweather isn't the hardest puncher by any means, but sometimes it looks like it do to his accuracy.Posted May 19, 2013 10:37 pm
Big Rich
David Haye would be up there! He is really a CW KO HW's bar Wlad! but even in defeat Wlad was wary of Haye's power and that is why the fight went to points. He took no risks v Haye!
How about roman gonzalezPosted May 19, 2013 10:26 pm
BEARS (with a quak quak here and a quak quak there here a quak there a quak everywhere a quak quak)
Sam peter was slaughtered by vitaly with accumulation. Not single punch ko power. There is definetly more "stopping power" in wlads strait rightas oposed to vitalysPosted May 19, 2013 10:22 pm
BEARS (with a quak quak here and a quak quak there here a quak there a quak everywhere a quak quak)
Tark- that has nothing to do with who hits harder that's styles making fights. Wladimir didn't even land on sanders how would sanders know wlads power he never felt it. In terms of one punch stopping power definetly the nod goes to wlad. He may be the best of all time with nucear bomb powered strait right. I would say vitaly is not far behind. Sam was able to rabit punch wlad we all know that even steward talked about it. Why omit such a critical fact? Sam dropped wlad because of equilibrium debilitating rabit punches. Fight 2 sam landed cleanly with LEGAL shots and wlad did not drop.hmmmmm let's use our deductive reasoning shall wePosted May 19, 2013 10:19 pm
Ask him figuratively Enema Schnozzle… You know damned well what he'd say since The Sniper crushed Wladimir in 2 rounds, and in his very next fight Vitali smashed him all over the ring until the referee was forced to stop it…
Peter knocked Wladimir down 3 times in his only loss, going the full 12… Vitali won every minute of every round against the 31-1 Peter, after a 4-year-layoff … clubbing Peter into submission in half the distance.Posted May 19, 2013 10:00 pm
It's Me, Ernie
Little hard to ask Sanders, douche-nozzle…Posted May 19, 2013 9:51 pm
Ask Corrie Sanders and Sam Peter…Posted May 19, 2013 9:33 pm
hey c'mon! so you wanna say that Joe Louis, Marciano and Ali also were full time heavyweights as Vladimir KlichKO?! in 200+lbs division Marciano is 0-0!!! clay is 28-4, 8 ko's!!! Vladimir is the best ever 60-3, 52 ko's! he beat the biggest amount of unbeaten and once beaten 200+lbs guys. And Vladimir is CLEARLY a better puncher than Vitaliy. Ask Byrd! He said it many times already.Posted May 19, 2013 9:28 pm
Gonzo of Nazareth
Bailey over Pac too, although Manny has that deceptively weird inexplicable Bruce Lee type of power.Posted May 19, 2013 9:16 pm
Gonzo of Nazareth
And no, Vitali is not a harder puncher than Wlad. lolPosted May 19, 2013 9:14 pm
Gonzo of Nazareth
Perhaps awful was too harsh. I'm not too familiar with some of the fighters from the lower weight divisions on your list, but from cruiser to super middle your selections are poor. I don't understand citing Guillermo Jones' stoppage of Ledebev to illustrate his power at all.. That was more due to Lebedev being totally spent than anything else. As for Cloud stopping Gonzalez, well whilst Gonzalez was unquestionably one tough hombre (RIP), Cloud couldn't drop him despite hitting hit him with everything bar the kitchen sink. He landed a sickening amount of full power shots in that one. I remember screaming at my TV screen for the ref to stop the fight numerous times throughout that. Froch's power is underrated by many, but Stevenson and Bute clearly hit harder.Posted May 19, 2013 9:11 pm
Layla Ali
Omg when are they gonna get this right !!!!!!!! Wladimir Klitschko has 52 KO's !!!!!!! 52 !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Omg !!!!!Posted May 19, 2013 9:10 pm
Squared-Circle (a.k.a. LionKing)
Must agree with Bears, here. Sergey Kovalev is definitely the hardest hitting Light HW. He's 20-0 with 18 KOs (86% KO ratio) and he killed a tough up- and-coming Russian fighter in the ring in 2011. Cloud's KO ratio, although impressive, is 76%. All the top dogs at 175lbs are trying to pretend that Sergey doesn't even exist because he's their worst Whitemare. Just begging for an opportunity to fight them. Real talk.Posted May 19, 2013 9:06 pm
BEARS (with a quak quak here and a quak quak there here a quak there a quak everywhere a quak quak)
Tark- u totally passed over light heavy dudePosted May 19, 2013 8:56 pm
Not a bad list… But here are a few of the changes I would make…
Vitali is a harder puncher than Wladimir… VK has a higher KO ratio. Plus he stopped Sam Peter, Corrie Sanders, and Ross Puritty like they were butter—guys who knocked Wladimir down 8 times and stopped him twice.
Adonis Stevenson is a harder puncher than Froch. He's nowhere near as good boxer but he is a harder one-shot puncher
Ruslan Provodnikov is the hardest punching welterweight. Pacquiao couldn't hurt Bradley even a little bit at any time. Provodnikov knocked Tim down twice, and concussed him badly. Ask Bradley who punches harder.
Adrien Broner is the hardest punching lightweight… He hasn't made the jump to welterweight until he fights Paulie… But with his 85% KO ratio and smashing firepower he'll be no chump at welterweight.
Mikey Garcia is the hardest punching featherweight… Garcia knocked Orlando Salido down several times before Salido lost on desperation foul. Salido was in a bad way every minute against the heavy handed Garcia—until he crushed Garcia's nose with a smashing head-butt. Salido KO'd Lopez twice so you know he could stand up to his firepower.Posted May 19, 2013 8:48 pm
Harry it can't be a statistical fact if there is no such thing as a professional Super Heavy Weight division. In the Super Heavy Weight division there are no stats because it doesn't exist. Trying to inflate Wlads legacy with lies only sets him back with his detractors. Wlad is good and arguably one of the best of all time, no need for your nonsense as it is all there for everyone to see. BTW IMO Vitali beats Wlad 99/100, too tough for little brother.Posted May 19, 2013 8:45 pm
VLADIMIR KLICHKO IS THE BEST KNOCKOUT ARTIST IN SUPERHEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION OF ALL TIME. THIS IS STATISTICAL FACT.Posted May 19, 2013 8:34 pm
Well I know Cloud is not the hardest puncher at light heavy. Never seen the guy y'all are talking about thoughPosted May 19, 2013 8:29 pm
Gonzo of Nazareth
I didn't even see your post before I wrote my Bears. Yes, Kovalev is clearly the hardest hitter at 175. You can hear how hard they are just from the sound they make.Posted May 19, 2013 8:19 pm
Red Ryan
All time Ko Artist goes too………. "The Hawk" Julian Jackson..Posted May 19, 2013 8:06 pm
Red Ryan
Good list but Where da hell is Randall Bailey???? It is the hardest hitters in boxing today??Posted May 19, 2013 8:03 pm
Gonzo of Nazareth
Awful list.
From heavy to light welterweight I'd go with
BEARS (with a quak quak here and a quak quak there here a quak there a quak everywhere a quak quak)
I would say killing a mn is BEYOND ko power. Its murderous power. How kovalev is not listed as hardest hitting light heavy is ridiculusnessPosted May 19, 2013 7:47 pm
BEARS (with a quak quak here and a quak quak there here a quak there a quak everywhere a quak quak)
NO WAY IS CLOUD THE HARDEST HITTING LIGHT HEAVY. Its certainly kovalev with 20 wins and 18 kos. He literally killed a man in the ring. Wow whoever wrote this article got that one teribbly teribbly wrong! Lol! U suck dude. The writer needs to rectify his boxing knowledge deficientcy.Posted May 19, 2013 7:45 pm
Randall Bailey is the hardest hitting Welterweight, hell you could of even put Maidana instead of Pacquaio… and Adonis Stevenson or Abraham is the hardest hitting Super Middleweight. For Lightweight you can put Broner,Posted May 19, 2013 7:44 pm
BEARS (with a quak quak here and a quak quak there here a quak there a quak everywhere a quak quak)
Dman right wladimir is the face of this article "hardest punchers in boxing today". Dudes power is NUCLEAR.Posted May 19, 2013 7:41 pm
Hm, although not as good of a fighter, I'd say Abraham should be considered at either 160 or 168 here.Posted May 19, 2013 7:39 pm
Gussie Finknottle
I think Golovkin could be the hardest puncher P4P today. All time hardest puncher…Edwin ValeroPosted May 19, 2013 7:28 pm


text:
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4. The Warrington 93 Warrington Crescent, Maida Vale
One of my locals. A grand, elegant, lavish pub with a beautiful sweeping round bar. Think mahogany, art nouveau, and ornate plasterwork. There's also a Gordon Ramsey-run restaurant upstairs.
Order: It's a beautiful setting to have a pint.
5. The Phoenix Artist Club 1 Phoenix Street, West End
Not strictly a pub, but I have been coming here since I was 19 and I love it. Wonderfully twee and degenerate theatrical bar under the Phoenix Theatre in the West End where you'll find all sorts of characters and creatives. Known to most actors as "Shuttleworths" or "Shutts". Don't go here expecting Soho House/Groucho, but do go expecting a good time!
Order: One of their sausage rolls as a midnight snack.


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Markham's Kwanzaa festivities
The Markham African-Caribbean Canadian Association held a Kwanzaa celebration on Saturday afternoon, featuring free Caribbean food, Afro-Caribbean performances and more at Milliken Mills High School. If you have an event or gala you would like the Star to cover, email firstname.lastname@example.com.
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A new sunrise dancing to music
Rita's hearing loss as an adult didn't keep her from enjoying life and exploring new things. As a wife, mother of four, employee and volunteer, she kept plenty busy. She even learned to salsa dance by following the beat of the music through the vibrations on the floor. Then she received cochlear implants at University of Minnesota Medical Center, Fairview, and everything changed.
Candidate for cochlear implants
Rita was completely deaf when she was referred to UMPhysicians and evaluated for cochlear implants. In general, patients with significant hearing loss, who gain little help from hearing aids and are eager to join the hearing world, are considered good candidates for the surgery. The decision for implants relies on exact numbers from hearing tests, and, with rapid improvements in technology and data, those measures are increasingly precise.
Implants were recommended for Rita, but there were no guarantees. From her perspective there'd be no loss, only gain. She was already living a very fulfilling life; the implants could only improve it.
Dr. Sam Levine is the otolaryngologist and neurotologist – a surgeon who specializes in neurological conditions of the ear – who performed Rita's implant surgery. But, as Dr. Levine says, "Cochlear implant is a team sport." Pre- and post- operation care requires an otolaryngologist/neurotologist, audiologist, psychologist, speech therapist, as well as other medical professionals. Rita describes her team as, "Very thorough and supportive. They answered every question and introduced me to people who already had cochlear implants. It was high level of care."
Re-learning to hear
A cochlear implant consists of internal and external parts. The internal device is surgically implanted under the skin, behind the ear. The external parts – the receiver and computer processor – are activated and programmed four to six weeks after the surgery. The device does not restore hearing; rather, it electrically stimulates the auditory nerve and the patient perceives sounds. So, when the device is activated, a new journey of re-learning begins.
Patients with cochlear implants have to re-associate the sounds they perceive with their auditory memory, and they use visual cues in the process. As Rita explains, "Engineered hearing is very different. For example, I couldn't tell the difference between the faucet running and my dog lapping water. Making the visual connection helped."
She also had to re-learn to dance. When she first studied salsa dancing, she followed the beat through the vibrations of the music. When she could hear the music, she had to train herself differently. It took hours of listening to the music and practicing dancing at home in her living room. Her positive attitude and determination paid off – she continues to dance at Hopkins Center for Arts and assists the instructor, too.
Rita's hearing results are exceptional. In a pre-operative assessment, she was asked to repeat 20 simple sentences; she was unable to repeat any of them. After the surgery, she scored 100%.
Helping others
"Deafness can be an emotionally debilitating condition," says Dr. Levine, "Restoring hearing can be liberating, but, the unknowns also create anxiety for our patients. It's a big decision."
Rita is now a mentor for the Bionic Ear Association and she helps people who recently received implants and those who are considering it. For Rita, the device has expanded her boundaries, giving her more confidence and independence. Her advice to others, "Keep trying new things. Don't worry about failure. Your success depends on your attitude and belief in yourself."


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- Filed Under
No. 10 Florida State (9-1, 6-1 ACC) at Maryland (4-6, 2-4), 12:01 p.m. (ESPNU)
LINE: Florida State by 31
SERIES RECORD: Florida State leads 20-2
With a victory, Florida State will clinch the league's Atlantic Division title for the second time in three years under head coach Jimbo Fisher and give the Seminoles their sixth straight win heading into a clash next week with Florida. Maryland will try to end a four-game skid after honoring 17 upperclassmen on senior day.
Florida State's top-ranked defense against Maryland QB Shawn Petty. The Seminoles will attempt to pressure the linebacker-turned-quarterback, who got the starting job after the top four QBs on the depth chart sustained season-ending injuries. Petty has fumbled four times and thrown an interception in his two starts, and FSU will do its best to try to increase those numbers. Operating against a defense that has held the opposition under 10 points in half its games, the 230-pound, left-handed Petty must avoid turnovers to keep the Terrapins in the game.
FLORIDA STATE: DE Cornellius Carradine. The 6-foot-5 senior leads the team in tackles (64) and sacks (nine). The last defensive lineman to lead the Seminoles in tackles was Reinard Wilson in 1996.
MARYLAND: DT Joe Vellano. Playing his final home game, Vellano is the centerpiece of a defense that is without leading tackler Demetrius Hartsfield (torn ACL). The 6-2, 285-pound Vellano is tied for the ACC lead and ranks 19th nationally with 1.4 tackles for loss per game. Vellano was all-ACC last year and is expected to repeat in 2012.
Florida State has won five straight in the series. ? Although the injury-riddled Terps haven't won in a month, they are still mathematically alive for a bowl berth - if they win this game and next week at North Carolina. ? The Seminoles lead the ACC in scoring offense (43.1 ppg) and rank second in total offense (503.2 ypg). ? Maryland could be without leading receiver Stefon Diggs (foot) and leading rusher Wes Brown (ankle). ? FSU QB E.J. Manuel is 22-5 as a starter, including 14-3 against ACC foes. ? The Seminoles are eligible for their 31st straight bowl appearances, the longest current run in the nation. ? Maryland RB Brandon Ross is coming off his first 100-yard game, one of few highlights for the Terps in a 45-10 loss to Clemson last week.


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The best thing about Reddit AMAs is that they often do live up to their name--the Ask Me Anything of the title can be, well, anything. It didn't get too crazy on today's AMA with Brooklyn Brewery co-founder Steve Hindy, but Hindy did manage to address his biggest mistake, his days in journalism, and ants in beer.
Here are a few highlights:
On his biggest mistake: "In the late '90s, we were distributing our own beer and others. We tried to develop a dot-com to home deliver the beers in NYC. Big mistake. [It] cost us $1 million. Lesson: Stay focused."
His advice for aspiring entrepreneurs: "If you have a partner, or partners, make sure you have a partnership agreement, sort of like a prenuptial agreement. I've seen many businesses fail because of disputes among partners."
The most important thing Brooklyn Brewery did to spur growth: "From Day One, we committed all our marketing dollars to donations to not-for-profit and arts groups. We donate beer mostly, and some dollars. That has earned us goodwill in the communities we serve and has gotten our beer into the hands of many people."
His favorite breweries, outside of his own: Deschutes Brewery in Oregon, Yazoo Brewing Company in Tennessee, New Belgium Brewing in Colorado.
On the costs of starting a brewery: "[How much it costs] depends on your ambition. There are very small breweries and there are more ambitious breweries. You can probably start a nanobrewery for a few thousand dollars. Licensing can be costly though. As far as capital goes, you need more than you think you need, no matter the scope of your ambition."
How he got started in journalism: "I worked for small newspapers in upstate New York and New Jersey and got noticed by the AP in Newark, N.J., in 1976. Then I started studying Arabic and volunteered for the Middle East. There aren't too many people that want to do that, so I landed in Beirut in February 1979."
On the dark days: Hindy said he always thought the brewery would be successful, but that "we were sweating bullets for the first eight years. In 1991 we could not afford to pay me so I went back to work at Newsday editing Gulf War copy. Newsday's Pat Sloyan won a Pulitzer that year."
On competition and collegiality: "It can be cutthroat on the street, fighting for a draft line. But the craft industry is incredibly collegial. I have learned much from my fellow brewers and I always make time for newcomers."
About a recent report that some Brazilian brewers are using ants in their recipes: "Gives me the creeps."
His very best life advice: "Don't do business with assholes."
Here is the full text of the AMA with Steve Hindy.


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Thrice All American chords by Neko Case, added: July 3rd, 2009
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I want to tell you about my hometown
It's a dusty old jewel in the South Puget Sound
Well the factories churn and the timbers all cut down
And life goes by slow in Tacoma
*Repeat for all verses
*Strumming picks up for middle verses and slows down again for last verse
People they laugh when they hear you're from my town
They say it's a sour and used up all place
I defended its honor, shrugged off the put downs
You know that you're poor, from Tacoma
Buildings are empty like ghettos or ghost-towns
It gives me a chill to think what was inside
I can't seem to fathom the dark of my history
I invented my own in Tacoma
There was nothing to put me in love with the good life
I'm in league with the the gangs guns, and the crime
There was no hollow promise that life would reward you
There was nowhere to hide in Tacoma
People who built it they loved it like I do
There was hope in the trainyard of something inspired
Once was I on it, but it's been painted shut
I found passion for life in Tacoma
Well I don't make it home much, I sadly neglect you
But that's how you like it away from the world
God bless California, make way for the Wal-Mart
I hope they don't find you Tacoma


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Posted on: May 11, 2011 11:36 pm
Cubs v. Cardinals
As I watch the Cubs beating the Cardinals 10-1 with a worthless Notre Dame receiver on the mound, I am reminded of a day 9 or 10 years ago against the Cards. I wish I remembered the date or even the year, but I know the Cubs were up 9-3 or 9-4 going into the bottom of the ninth in St. Louis. At the time, the Cubs had ol' Flash Gordon (he was not the closer...that was el Pulpo Alfonseca)--ooh, update...it is now 10-2--and brought him in. If I remember correctly, he didn't get a single out. So in came Antonio Alfonseca to close the game out and he couldn't get anyone out either. The final score was 10-9, I do remember that--update...Pujols single, score now 10-4--and it was quite disappointing.
Anyway, my question is do you ever feel safe as a Cubs fan that any sort of lead is safe? I sure hope I am watching a Cubs win, but I just never feel comfortable until the last out. Funny that I started typing at 10-1 and it is 10-4 since I had this idea...please don't blame me for jinxing the Cubbies.
Is a lead ever safe???
Category: MLB
Tags: Antonio Alfonseca, Chicago, Cubs
Posted on: January 15, 2010 7:12 pm
Is Ryne Sandberg ready to manage the Chicago Cubs
I have a nightmare…
One of my childhood heroes is Ryne Sandberg. Never mind that I'm in my mid-30's now, it still brings back great memories of my innocent youth and I can still call him a hero. Anyway, Ryno has been working his way through the minor leagues as a coach and manager in the Cubs system and now finds himself as the manager of the AAA Iowa Cubs right down the road from me. I'm excited to take my sons to see my old hero in person (my oldest watched "The Sandberg Game" on MLB Network with me…he may have been more interested in the hairstyles and great uniforms of the mid 80's but I like to think he was developing an appreciation for Daddy's old team) and maybe even get an autograph. It all sounds too good to be true so where's the whole nightmare element come in? First of all an article from the Des Moines Register would have us believe that this is just a quick stop-over on his way to coach the CHICAGO Cubs next year OR even this year if the team starts to falter.
The Des Moines Register's Sean Keeler writes
My nightmare works out in two different scenarios.
Lou Piniella leads the Cubs back into the playoffs (that's good) where they make an early exit in a divisional sweep; once again crushing our hopes that we foolishly got up (that's bad). Good enough to keep Lou around and the Cubs to make a few minor moves to try and shore things up for another run at it in 2011. Did I see something like this before? Meanwhile, another team decides to snatch up Sandberg and BAM!, my hero stands for the first time since he played for the Phillies back in '81 wearing a non-Cubs uniform. How am I to react and deal with this?
Scenario #2:
The Cubs swoon in the late summer and to expedite things the Cubs go ahead and part ways with Lou and bring Ryno up to finish out the season and be the manager for the foreseeable future. Great, right? Except the Cubs then begin next season in a slump and Sandberg proves himself to not be ready or capable of being a big league manager. How do we deal with our heroes putting themselves in new situations where they may not be able to have the success they're (and we're) used to having?
Now, of course these are just nightmares, right? Someone tell me that Lou's going to lead us to the Promised Land (career year, Marlon Byrd? comeback player Alfonso Soriano? Carlos Marmol isn't walking anyone?). Then he steps down on a high note leaving the keys to a finely tuned machine to new manager Ryne Sandberg who will then lead the Cubs to their second of many titles of the new decade. That can happen, right? Hey, if a guy can have nightmares, he might as well have some fantasies too!
Here is a link to photos of Ryno in his I-Cubs glory:
Category: MLB


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November 30, 2015
Stay Connected Anywhere
WICHITA, Kan. (AP) _ A federal judge has ruled that a trial is needed to determine whether a Kansas law restricting private health insurance coverage for abortions poses a substantial obstacle to women seeking to end their pregnancies.
U.S. District Judge Julie Robinson on Monday rejected a request by the American Civil Liberties Union of Kansas and Western Missouri for a favorable ruling in their legal challenge of the law.
The judge also ruled partially in favor of the state on whether the law's main purpose was to impose an undue burden on abortion rights.
The law prohibits insurance companies from offering coverage for abortions in their general plans, except when a woman's life is in danger. Kansas residents or employers who want abortion coverage must buy supplemental policies.
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New Zealand Embassy Seoul, South Korea
Kiwi recipes and products hit Seoul
Twelve New Zealand food and beverage companies joined forces on 6 November to share New Zealand recipes and products with over 170 experts from the Korean food and beverage industry.
The experts included top chefs, menu developers and buyers from major hotels, restaurant chains and catering companies, retailers/distributors, food manufacturing companies, journalists and power bloggers. Many came from outside of Seoul to check out the Kiwi cuisine, including Gwangju and Cheongju.
The event, organised by NZTE Seoul at the Seoul Plaza Hotel, was also a valuable chance for the New Zealand companies to learn more about how their products could be used in the Korean market. Ambassador Patrick Rata noted in his welcome speech the importance Korean consumers placed on safe, high quality food. This is a strong selling point for New Zealand products. S.B Jang from leading PR company Edelman Korea emphasised the importance of social media in communicating with Korean consumers.
New Zealand food and beverage on offer included beef, lamb, kiwifruit, guacamole, fruit and vegetable puree and powder, honey, beef jerky, juice, energy drinks, beer, syrup and Greenshell mussels.
Of interest
United Nations Handbook
The UN Handbook is a comprehensive guide to the UN system and how it works. Read more
New Zealand wins Security Council seat
New Zealand has secured a place on the UN Security Council for 2015-16. Read the Prime Minister's media release
Registering your overseas travel made easier
New Zealanders travelling or living overseas, registering your travel online now made easier. Read more
Korea Update, Embassy's Quarterly Publication
Korea Update is a quarterly newsletter keeping you informed with what is happening in the land of the morning calm. Read more
The Christchurch Earthquake Appeal
News about how the donations are contributing to the rebuild, ways to donate and more.


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SWEET HOME, TEXAS (Lee County). Sweet Home, on Farm Road 141 eight miles northeast of Giddings in northeastern Lee County, was founded by black settlers from Washington and Fayette counties. Cotton and grain farming were the major occupations, and a grain mill and a cotton gin operated there. The first church in Sweet Home, the Providence Missionary Baptist Church, began in a log cabin about 1880. Until 1906 residents used a burial ground near the church; no signs of this cemetery remain today. A one-room school named Liberty Valley, which began a few years after the founding of the community, was near a stagecoach station at the edge of the community, near Nails Creek and across from Vernon's Store. In 1890 residents purchased a site for a new school and church nearer the center of town. The first service of the Sweet Home Church was held in 1890; parishioners were seated on a log that remains under the current church. A new cemetery site was purchased in 1898. The Sweet Home congregation rebuilt their church in 1919 and remodeled it in 1945 and 1951. The Sweet Home school began classes in the church, but sometime before 1898 a two-story building had been erected. In 1898 the school had an enrollment of ninety-six, and in 1908, at least seventy-two. A Rosenwald School was later built. The new school also served as a community recreation center until it burned. The Work Projects Administration built a concrete-tile school at the community that operated until 1954, when the Post Oak school district absorbed its students. Sweet Home began to decline with the failure of the cotton economy in the late 1920s. By the early 1970s church services were held there once a month, and annual homecomings took place on the third Sunday in July. In 2000 the population was thirty.
Giddings Times and News, June 24, 1971. Lee County Historical Survey Committee, A History of Lee County (Quanah, Texas: Nortex, 1974).
The following, adapted from the Chicago Manual of Style, 15th edition, is the preferred citation for this article.Nolan Thompson, "SWEET HOME, TX (LEE COUNTY)," Handbook of Texas Online (http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/hrs83), accessed November 28, 2015. Uploaded on June 15, 2010. Published by the Texas State Historical Association.
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November 24, 2015
Officials at the Wood County Juvenile Center are turning to the commission for help in purchasing additional land for the property.
Currently, the facility has a small recreation area, with only enough space to play basketball.
Center director David Jones says he's hoping to enter a long-term lease with the county to acquire the property behind the center.
He says this would allow his staff to develop more outdoor activities and teach the teenagers respect outside of the classroom.
Commissioners will tour the facility next week.
Jones says he'd like to see a security fence around the land in time for summer.
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Create! Pattern Cutting
Additional Information
- What:Young People's Events
- Where:Design Studio, Sackler Centre
YOUNG PEOPLE'S EVENT: Develop your pattern cutting skills and design and make a pattern to create your own top.
Monday 13 August (13–15 years)
Tuesday 14 August (16–19 years)
Once you have booked a ticket, please complete the emergency contact form and the model release form and send them in before the event.
It is advisable to bring a packed lunch for the day-long sessions.
One free place is available to a carer accompanying a disabled person.


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Apple is rumored to launch its Internet radio service in early 2013, according to a report on Bloomberg. Bloomberg's Olga Kharif and Andy Fixmer are reporting that Apple has been in talks with multiple partners to 'take on' Pandora. Shares of Pandora tanked on the news, of course. Bloomberg is reporting that Apple and 'major music labels', including Universal Music Group, Warner Music Group and Sony Corp's music division have had beetings in recent weeks to learn about Apple's plans. Those plans include listeners being "able to buy tracks as music streams or revisit what they've heard in auto-generated playlists." Read the full story at The Next Web.
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Upcoming EventsSee All Events »
Featured Poll
When do you train on summer weekdays?
photo: Scott Taylor/ITU
Hursey, Zaferes Win Kelowna Sprint Triathlon Pan American Cup
KELOWNA, B.C. — U.S. elite triathletes Katie Hursey and Tommy Zaferes topped the field at Sunday's PATCO Sprint Triathlon Pan American Cup, held in conjunction with the long-running Apple Triathlon.
Hursey (Phoenix, Ariz.) won the 750-meter swim, 20-kilometer bike, 5-kilometer run event with a time of 59 minutes, 36 seconds after leading throughout the day. Canadian Paula Findlay was second in 59:52, and Erin Dolan (Bentonville, Ark.) took third place in 1:01:22 for her second straight podium finish. It was Hursey's first win since claiming victory in an early-season ITU World Cup in New Plymouth, New Zealand.
The three podium finishers were among the first athletes out of the water, trailing Summer Cook (Thornton, Colo.) by just a few seconds heading into the first transition. Hursey and Findlay remained side-by-side throughout the race, finishing the 20k bike leg together before Hursey made a break on the run. Hursey's 17:07 5k run split gave her the advantage, with Findlay trailing by 16 seconds at the finish.
"I was really happy to have Paula there with me all day," said Hursey in a post-race interview with Triathlon Canada. "We were extremely motivated and worked so well together. I love this course. I think it plays into my strength and it is very hard."
In the men's race, Zaferes (Soquel, Calif.) posted the winning time of 54:24 on the sprint-distance course for his first career ITU win. Australian Calvin Quirk had the fastest run time of the day to move into second place, finishing in 55:00, and Quirk's compatriot Daniel Coleman finished in 55:08, claiming the final podium spot.
Zaferes, known for his swim prowess, came out of the water in the lead group and joined forces with Canadian Andrew McCartney and Eric Lagerstrom (Gresham, Ore.) over the 20k bike. Though the two Australians were charging, Zaferes had built up a solid lead and maintained his position through the finish, crossing the line more than 30 seconds ahead of the field. The U.S. had six men finish in the top 10.
"The course was great and really suits me," said Zaferes in his post-race interview. "I knew there were lots of fast runners so I swam and biked as hard as I could to open up a gap on the run. There was lots of give and take but we worked well together in the pack."
Top elites will compete in ITU World Triathlon Stockholm this weekend prior to the ITU World Triathlon Grand Final in Edmonton at the end of the month. The next Pan American Cup is scheduled for Sept. 7 in Monterrey, Mexico.
2014 Kelowna PATCO Sprint Triathlon Premium Pan American Cup
750m swim, 20k bike, 5k run
Elite Women — Complete Results
1. Katie Hursey (Phoenix, Ariz.), 59:36
2. Paula Findlay (CAN), 59:52
3. Erin Dolan (Bentonville, Ark.), 1:01:22
4. Summer Cook (Thornton, Colo.), 1:01:35
10. Sinead O'Dwyer (Boulder, Colo.), 1:05:55
11. Zara Guinard (Salt Lake City, Utah), 1:07:39
Elite Men — Complete Results
1. Tommy Zaferes (Soquel, Calif.), 54:24
2. Calvin Quirk (AUS), 55:00
3. Daniel Coleman (AUS), 55:08
4. Eric Lagerstrom (Gresham, Ore.), 55:15
7. Alan Webb (Beaverton, Ore.), 55:51
8. Alex Libin (Colorado Springs, Colo.), 56:13
9. Jason Pedersen (Simi Valley, Calif.), 56:16
10. Ryan Bice (Colorado Springs, Colo.), 56:54
12. James Thorp (Toledo, Ohio), 57:47
13. Nicholas Sterghos (West Point, N.Y.), 58:04
24. Josh Izewski (Phoenix, Ariz.), 1:01:08


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The musical 'Grease' was part of the line up for the Plays in the Park 50th Anniversary Season in 2012. This year's season begins Tuesday, June 25.
- Filed Under
The mesmerizing and evocative music of "Les Miserables" will fill the early summer air throughout Roosevelt Park in Edison on Tuesday to mark the beginning of the 2013 Plays in the Park summer season, which attracts some 25,000 patrons each year.
The eight-time Tony Award Winning musical will run from June 25 through July 6 on the Stephen J. Capestro Amphitheater located at 1 Pine Drive, Edison.
Based on the novel by Victor Hugo, Les Miserables follows the life of Jean Valjean during a period of political disruption in 19th century France. ...


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Tobe Hooper talks about his Mortuary movie
"It's about this beat up old mortuary that gets moved into by a guy going through a midlife crisis who goes into a new business, kind of on a lark, a place that is so fucked up and run down that he doesn't know what he's doing. Once he gets there, he hopes he'll be able to get some business from the mental institution and the old folks home. And he certainly does. But it's very weird and very scary and not quite what you think. It's almost as if Larry Clark was doing a horror film. Kind of like Bully. Except there will be redeeming characters."
Jace Anderson and Adam Gierasch put the script together. They have worked with Tobe Hooper once already on "The Toolbox Murders". Hopefully this film will really bring Tobe Hooper back to his horror roots.


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May 3, 2006
Scott Moskovitz
Although there's still a chance another team could make a move, right now junior Nick Jenkins is pretty confident about his top five schools.The 6-foot-3, 316-pounder is being recruited to play a couple of different positions by his top five schools, all of whom have offered. Penn State, Virginia, N.C. State, North Carolina and Michigan State all are at the top of Jenkins' current list. ...More... To continue reading this article you must be a member. Sign Up Now!
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December 2, 2015
Colorado Springs, Colo. (AP) Colorado Springs officials say they're spending about $100,000 a year to replace copper components stolen from sprinkler systems and lights in city parks.
Kurt schroeder, who manages parks, trails and open space for the city, says the money could pay for as many as three new parks.
The high price of copper has attracted thieves to the wiring in light poles and to sprinkler heads in cities across the country.
Schroeder says the city has begun welding the access doors closed on light poles and replacing wiring with less expensive aluminum.
His agency has a $9 million budget.
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Roadtrip Photos
Trip Start Oct 18, 2012
268Trip End Ongoing
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By now I'm sure that you are quite sick of roadtrip photos, but I went through and selected the best photos that I took over the course of the trip so that Steffie's parents could take a look. It is hard to estimate how many photos I took over the course of the trip, but it easily runs into the thousands. Obviously places like New York and Yellowstone have the most amount of photos, but I managed to narrow down the thousands to just 129.
Now I could post all of those 129 photos, but that would take too much time and effort. So I selected some of the best for your viewing pleasure! Inevitably they are mostly scenery, animals and cities with a few funnies thrown in for good measure. Many more good photos, but not all can make the cut!


text: Porridge Series 3 - 2. Poetic Justice Facebook Twitter Google Tumblr Pinterest Blogger Reddit VKontakt Print Email About this programme 2/6. Fletcher objects to having a third cellmate foisted on him, especially as the newcomer seems to enjoy special privileges and the full backing of the wardens. Comedy, starring Ronnie Barker and Fulton Mackay. Cast and crew Cast Norman Stanley Fletcher Ronnie Barker Lennie Godber Richard Beckinsale Mr Barrowclough Brian Wilde Mr Mackay Fulton Mackay Rawley Maurice Denham Harris Ronald Lacey Bunny Warren Sam Kelly McLaren Tony Osoba Governor Michael Barrington Mr Collison Paul McDowell Crew Producer Sydney Lotterby Writer Dick Clement Writer Ian La Frenais Categories Sitcom Facebook Twitter Google Tumblr Pinterest Blogger Reddit VKontakt Print Email