text:
Did the Hebrew language exist before the exile into Babylon?
I received a comment on my blog claiming that the Hebrew language didn't exist until the Jewish exile in Babylon. So, what does the evidence say?
According to the Bible, all people spoke the same language until around 2200 BC when God caused different languages to develop at Babel and people scattered to form different nations across the earth (Gen. 11:1-9). This was the source of the diversity of human languages.
The Hebrew nation settled in Canaan in the 14th century BC. They occupied Canaan until the first Jewish captives were deported to Babylon in 605 BC and the second wave were exiled in 586 BC when the city of Jerusalem was destroyed (Dan. 1; 2 Ki. 25).
According to Wikipedia, the Siloam inscription records the construction of Hezekiah's tunnel. The NIV Study Bible states that Hezekiah was king of Judah between 715 BC and 686 BC (2 Ki. 18:1-2). The tunnel, leading from the Gihon Spring to the Pool of Siloam, was designed as an aqueduct to provide Jerusalem with water during an impending siege by the Assyrians, led by Sennacherib (2 Ki. 20:20; 2 Chr. 32:30). The inscription, which was discovered in the tunnel in 1880 and has been dated at 701 BC, is written in the "Biblical Hebrew" language, which uses the ancient Hebrew alphabet. So here we have a written example of the Hebrew language that dates at least 100 years before the Jewish exile.
Hebrew belongs to the Semantic family of languages which were used in the middle east. Geographically it was a Canaanite language like Phoenician, Ugaritic and Moabite. The Bible notes that Jacob's language was different to Aramaic (Gen. 31:47). Scholars believe that Hebrew was spoken in the kingdoms of Israel and Judah during the 10th to 7th centuries BC.
Therefore, the reader's comment seems to be inconsistent with the evidence available. It can be shown that the Hebrew language originated well before the Babylonian exile. In fact, Wikipedia claims that there is evidence of "Biblical Hebrew" as far back as the 10th century BC, which extends to the days of king David (2 Sam. 5:4). The Gezer calendar is dated in this time period. Likewise, the earliest known example of the Hebrew alphabet discovered at Tel Zayit is dated in the 10th century B.C.
Written, March 2013
Criticisms of the NIV Bible
In part 3 of this evaluation of the NIV 2011 Bible, we assess some criticisms of this translation by the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood and the Southern Baptist Convention in the USA.
The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood (CBMW)
The CBMW issued "An Evaluation of Gender Language in the 2011 Edition of the NIV Bible" in mid-2011. They are concerned that "the 2011 NIV … unnecessarily removes male-oriented terminology that was present in the 1984 NIV — especially the use of generic masculine forms of expression".
Their accusations against the NIV 2011 are summarised below, including the verses referenced.
It adopts feminist-leaning translations – 1 Tim. 2:12
"The 2011 NIV changes some key verses on women's role in the church so that they favor an evangelical feminist position, especially in translating 1 Timothy 2:12 in a way that differs with all other commonly-used modern English translations and that gives women a wide open door to serve as pastors and elders in churches, contrary to the actual teaching of the New Testament."
Rom 16:7; 1 Corinthians 14:33-34; Romans 16:1
It incorrectly changes "father" to "parent" or something else – Proverbs 15:5; 1 Samuel 18:2
It incorrectly changes "forefather" to "ancestor" – Joshua 19:47
It incorrectly changes "mighty men" to "mighty warriors – 2 Samuel 23:8
It incorrectly changes "son" to "child" – Proverbs 13:24; Psalm 8:4
It incorrectly changes "man" to a gender-neutral term – 1 Kings 9:5; Proverbs 27:17
It incorrectly changes "brother" to "brother or sister" or to other non-family words –
Luke 17:3; Deuteronomy 22:1
It incorrectly changes "mighty men" to "mighty warriors – 2 Samuel 23:8
It incorrectly changes "he" and "him" to "they" and "them" – John 14:23
It loses many more masculine singular pronouns than the "Translators' Notes" suggest –
Proverbs 28:19; John 6:40; John 15:6; Proverbs 5:21; Romans 4:8; Matthew 10:24; Matthew 12:35; Matthew 18:15; Revelation 3:20
It incorrectly changes "women" to "weaklings" – Nahum 3:13
It waters down or omits details of meaning that modern culture finds offensive – They object to the removal of male examples to teach general truths, by removing words such as "father," "son," "brother," "man," and "he/him/his."
Most of these accusations have been responded to generally by the NIV translators and specifically by Decker (2011).
The translator's response is summarised below.
- The NIV translators have never been motivated by a concern to avoid giving offense. We were simply following what wide-ranging, objective research tells us about the state of modern English.
- It is the scholarship that has influenced the translation decisions – not a modern agenda of any kind.
- The CBMW review betrays a simplistic understanding of word meaning.
- Why single out the NIV for criticism for translation decisions that, to some degree, are being widely adopted by modern translators? We, along with translators of other modern versions, are not trying to "avoid" certain words. Rather, positively, we are trying to find the right word in contemporary English to represent the meaning of ancient Hebrew and Greek words.
Dr Rod Decker is Professor of New Testament and Greek at Baptist Bible Seminary in Clarks Summit, Pennsylvania USA. His response to the CBMW report is summarised below.
The CBMW is a very vocal single-issue group that has determined that one of the primary ways to champion their position is to advocate a single approach to translation: formal equivalence with explicit objection to "gender-neutral" translation. Their single issue is defending a complementarian view of men and women and opposing egalitarianism. I personally hold a complementarian position, so my objection is not to the position itself but to some of the ways in which CBMW has attempted to advance that cause.
The tone of their official review of the NIV 2011 is unhelpful, and the methodology employed is designed more for rhetorical effect than it is for a substantive engagement in the issues. The methodology essentially collates a large quantity of data presented in summary form. This gives the uninformed reader the impression of thousands and thousands of errors. In reality there are a few basic issues in regard to how gender-related language should be translated. These get too little attention in the review. One sometimes sees a parallel in the manner in which "KJV-only" advocates defend their preference against all comers.
More specifically, 1 Timothy 2:12 is not a feminist-driven translation choice. To say that "in one stroke the NIV 2011 removes the Bible's main barrier to women pastors and elders" is ill-advised rhetoric. Decker also quotes Paul Wendland:
The CBMW overstates the case when it claims that the NIV 2011 translation of 1 Timothy 2:12 will give "an open door" to women pastors since "in one stroke it removes the Bible's main barrier to women pastors and elders. As soon as a church adopts the 2011 NIV, the debate over women's roles in that church will be over". The NIV 2011 still says that the husband/man is the head of the wife/woman and that an elder/overseer in the church is to be "faithful to his wife." How has a wide open door been given to women pastors when NIV 2011 says these things? Just as gender roles could be taught on the basis of the KJV, in spite of "usurp authority" in 1 Timothy 2:12, so it will be possible to teach gender roles on the basis of NIV 2011.
Also, I do not find the CBMW's argument convincing when they say that 'assume authority' must be understood as 'assume authority on one's own initiative.' If I would say in a conversation, "The president assumed office today," would anyone think, "He means the president is assuming office on his own initiative"? I have a hard time believing it.
Moo has stated "that in order to have or exercise authority, it must first be assumed". You could even argue that "assume" is stronger than "have" or "exercise". You can have authority but never exercise it. You could exercise authority without having it (in any official, designated capacity). But you can't have or exercise authority without first assuming it.
Decker also addresses the linguistic concerns of the CBMW, including:
- To state that Luke 17:3 incorrectly changes "brother" to "brother or sister" "is biased and ill-informed".
- To suggest that eliminating a "male-oriented" term (i.e., generic "man"), as in Proverbs 27:17, is capitulating to the feminist agenda is foolishness.
- To ask why is the male meaning that is present in the source text of John 6:31 eliminated makes an unwarranted semantic assumption.
People like the CBMW are concerned about neutering masculine pronouns. John 6:44 is an example of a masculine singular pronoun ("him") being replaced by a gender-neutral plural pronoun ("them"). In this instance they think that a corporate element is being added to a verse that originally had an individual focus. However, the "them" in this verse does not refer to a group of people, but to the "one" referenced in the start of the verse. The NIV 2011 verse is worded exactly how people speak today!
|No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day
|No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day
|John 6:44
However, there is a verse in the NIV 2011 that I think would be improved if it was translated like John 6:44. Revelation 3:20 is not worded how people speak today. Is there any reason why "them" can't be used in this verse instead of "that person'", because "them" is much more readable than "that person".
|My suggestion
|Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me
|Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.
|Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with them, and they with me.
|Revelation 3:20
The Southern Baptist Convention (SBC)
Other opposition has come from the US SBC, which passed a resolution opposing the NIV 2011 at their annual convention in June 2011. The heart of the 2011 resolution claims, "this translation alters the meaning of hundreds of verses, most significantly by erasing gender-specific details which appear in the original language." It also references a 1997 resolution on translation that condemns "gender inclusive translation". It is understood that the CBMW report would have given the 2011 resolution momentum. The resolution has also been used to claim that the NIV 2011 undermines the verbal plenary inspiration of the Bible (God supernaturally guided the biblical authors to write the exact things that He wanted expressed).
The NIV translators and Decker (2011) have responded to this accusation.
The translator's response is summarised below.
- We object strongly to the accusation that the NIV "alters the meaning of hundreds of verses, most significantly by erasing gender-specific details which appear in the original language." Our concern is always, in every decision we make, to represent God's unchanging Word accurately and naturally in modern English.
- We object strongly to the accusation that "the 2011 NIV has gone beyond acceptable translation standards." In fact, our translation standards are exactly those followed by professional translators around the world. We employ these standards in combination with the best biblical and linguistic scholarship to render God's eternal Word accurately into modern English. This mandate is what guides us in all our decisions — not any other agenda.
According to Decker (2011):
Unfortunately, neither "gender-neutral" … nor "gender inclusive" in the 1997 resolution are defined. Definition is the heart of any such statement … It appears that the resolution assumes a very broad definition of the term and applies it to a translation that itself uses a very narrow definition. .. the only changes in the NIV 2011 that may be termed "gender inclusive" are those that the translators understood to be inclusive of both men and women in the original text. That is hardly objectionable. It is unfortunate that the SBC has not issued a more accurate statement …
The 1997 resolution of the SBC that is referenced in the 2011 resolution indicates that their concern is with regard to "gender inclusive language" in "Bible translations with the intent of translating the Scriptures into the current language of the people". In their opinion this is a deviation from the historic principles of biblical translation. As translations such as the KJV were in the current language of their day, this seems to be a bias against translating the Bible into modern language. Instead they prefer to retain the language of a previous era and reject aspects of current language, which is similar to how the Amish view aspects of technology. This is acceptable provided their view is not forced on others with a differing opinion.
As the SBC doesn't provide any biblical examples of its concern or any reasoning, it could be difficult to convince others of their viewpoint. Instead they only provide a brief statement. This may have been due to their reliance on the CBMW report.
It is instructive to compare a selection of verses in different translations. Here we see that translations like the ESV and HCSB, which are accepted by the CBMW, sometimes make similar choices to the NIV 2011. However, they are not as consistent as the NIV 2011.
As these criticisms of the NIV 2011 by the CBMW and the SBC have been answered adequately by the NIV translators and Decker (2011), the criticisms appear to be weak in view of current biblical scholarship. As most of their claims were linguistic, it is appropriate that they be answered by biblical linguists. Furthermore, according to Dr Daniel Wallace, a professor of New Testament studies at Dallas Theological Seminary, the NIV 2011 is a well-thought out translation, with checks and balances through rigorous testing, overlapping committees to ensure consistency and accuracy; the scholarship is excellent both in text and translation decisions; and it has great readability. Dr Wallace is an expert in Greek grammar and New Testament textual criticism and a strong complementarian. It would be helpful if more biblical linguists confirmed this to help counter the negative comments by non-linguists on the internet.
As a result of this 3-part series it is clear that most of the changes between 1984 and 2011 are improvements to the accuracy and understandability of the NIV Bible.
On the whole, this assessment of the statement by the NIV translators, of the paper by an independent New Testament scholar, Decker (2011), and of criticisms by the CBMW and the SBC, indicates that the NIV 2011 is an improvement on the NIV 1984.
Written, January 2013
See the previous articles in this series:
– Improvements in the NIV Bible between 1984 and 2011 – Part 1
– Improvements in the NIV Bible between 1984 and 2011 – Part 2
Improvements in the NIV Bible between 1984 and 2011 – Part 2
In part 2 of this evaluation of the NIV 2011 Bible, we assess a statement by an independent New Testament scholar. In order to avoid duplication, points already made in Part 1 of this series will not be repeated.
The scholar
Dr Rodney Decker is Professor of New Testament and Greek at Baptist Bible Seminary in Clarks Summit, Pennsylvania. This is a conservative Bible college which serves a (theologically) conservative constituency. He teaches courses in New Testament (NT) Greek language and NT textual criticism.
Rodney Decker has a doctorate in NT Theology from Central Baptist Theological Seminary, Minnesota USA. His 1998 doctorate dissertation was titled, "Temporal Deixis of the Greek Verb in the Gospel of Mark in Light of Verbal Aspect". He is the author of numerous journal articles on linguistic, exegetical (explanatory, expository), and theological topics and has written text books on Koine Greek, which is the original language of the New Testament. Rod holds a complementarian position where men and women have complementary roles that include male leadership in the home and in the church (as Paul's instructions on men and women were intended for all times and cultures), whereas egalitarians believe that men do not have the sole rights as leaders in the home or church (as Paul's instructions on men and women were intended only for his time and culture).
Further information on Rod's activities is available on his website: NT Resources.
Assessment of evaluation done by Dr. Rodney Decker
"An Evaluation of the 2011 Edition of the New International Version" (Themelios 36, 3, 415-456) was published in November 2011.
Decker explains the two general approaches to translation – "formal equivalence" (attempts to reproduce the word order, grammar and syntax of the donor language as closely as possible in the receptor language, with minimal changes for intelligibility) and "functional equivalence" (attempts to accurately communicate the same meaning in the receptor language, while it may relax the form of the source language). All translations include both formal and functional equivalents to a certain degree. The NIV balances both approaches, whereas the ESV and HCSB are more "formal" and the NLT more "functional" on the translation spectrum. Every translation, including the most formal, makes many substantial revisions to the form of the source language.
Decker explains that an update of the NIV Bible was necessary because "our language has changed". With regard to changes in the NIV 2011 in English usage, advances in scholarship, and improved clarity, he agrees that most of these changes are "very good ones that contribute to understanding the Word of God in English".
Changes related to gender language
If a translation intends to communicate in contemporary English, then that translation is fully justified to make changes that reflect current usage. The change in English usage of gender language was determined by a study based on the Collins Bank of English—a 4.4 billion-word database of English usage worldwide based on both print and audio recordings. This is the first time that such an objective approach has been used in Bible translation. For example, of the current terms referring to both men and women, about 70% use "people" or "human" and about 15% use "man" or "mankind".
The principle involved in the NIV 2011, as is the case with a number of other evangelical translations (e.g., ESV, HCSB, NET, NLT), is that wording in the source language that is not gender specific should not become gender specific in the receptor language. In this respect, the receptor language for a passage should match the donor language. If one is addressed to men and women then so should the other. Likewise, of one is addressed to men (or women), then so should the other.
Seven guidelines were used to revise gender language in the NIV 2011. Decker lists these and gives some examples using NT passages. In all cases he is in agreement with the approach adopted by the translators.
Decker did a sample comparison between the NIV 1984 and the NIV 2011 using the book of 2 Timothy. Some of the changes he found are given below.
|Reference / Note
|2 Tim. 2:20
English usage
|2 Tim. 3:6
|2 Tim. 1:3
Gender language
|reliable men
|reliable people
|2 Tim. 2:2
Gender language
|2 Tim. 2:15
Gender language
|a man
|those who
|2 Tim. 2:21; 3:13
Gender language
|the man of God
|the servant of God
|2 Tim. 3:17
Gender language
|the servant of God
|the brothers and sisters
|2 Tim. 4:21
Gender language
He didn't think that any of these seven gender changes are controversial. However, he did identify three potentially controversial passages.
Romans 16:1-2
|I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servanta of the church in Cenchrea. I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of the saints and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been a great help to many people, including me.
|I commend to you our sister, Phoebe, a deacona of the church in Cenchreae. I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of his people and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been the benefactor of many people, including me.
|Romans 16:1-2
|a Or deaconess
|a Or servant
Whether one objects to this translation, will probably depend on how deacons function in their church. The NIV 2011 has reversed the text and marginal translations that were found in the NIV 1984. In this case Decker prefers the NIV 1984. Of the changes in 12,000 verses between 1984 and 2011 (most of them are minor), this is the only one that Decker quotes where he prefers the 1984 version. Whether a technical term ("benefactor") is used in this verse or a general descriptive ("great help") is probably a minor matter.
Romans 16:7
|Greet Andronicus and Junias, my relatives who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.
|Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding amonga the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was.
|Romans 16:7
|aOr are esteemed by
In Greek only a difference of accent distinguishes between Junias (male) and Junia (female) and accents were not part of the original text. There are arguments for either accent pattern. Contemporary NT scholarship appears to favor the feminine form, but it is not certain.
The issue is not with Junia being a woman, which seems likely, but the nature of the statement made about her. Decker provides evidence that it may have been better if NIV 2011 had reversed the text and marginal readings, though including the alternative reading is an improvement over the NIV 1984.
1 Timothy 2:12
|I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.
|I do not permit a woman to teach or assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.
|1 Timothy 2:12
The Translators' Notes explain the reasoning behind this change as follows. Much debate has surrounded the meaning of the rare Greek word authentein … The exercise of authority that Paul was forbidding was one that women inappropriately assumed, but whether that referred to all forms of authority over men in church or only certain forms in certain contexts is up to the individual interpreter to decide. "Assume authority" leaves the question open … until we discover more conclusive evidence.
Decker states that from a translation perspective, this position is defensible. Given the uncertainty in meaning, it is most appropriate for a translation not to decide the issue. Instead, one's conclusions regarding this text must come not from one word but from the immediate context, Paul's teaching elsewhere, and a biblical theology of the subject.
It is a translation that allows multiple interpretations ("assume" may be read in either a positive or negative sense), but that may be a wise choice in this case. Those who want to proof-text certain positions (whether that position is valid or not) may not be happy, but we must be honest with the text and acknowledge that this is an issue that must be resolved on a much broader basis. He also states that this is not a feminist-driven translation choice.
Changes related to "Messianic" texts
Decker looked at the most commonly cited example of changes related to "Messianic" texts, the use of Psalm 8 in Hebrews 2.
|What is man that you are mindful of him,
|What is mankind that you are mindful of them,
|Psalm 8:4
|the son of man that you care for him?
|human beings that you care for them?a
|5You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings
|5You have made thema a little lower than the angels
|Psalm 8:5
|and crowned him with glory and honor.
|and crowned thema with glory and honor.
|a 4 Or what is a human being that you are mindful of him, a son of man that you care for him?
|a 5 Or him
This is a typological OT text that does not specifically prophesy Messiah directly but that the NT identifies as typological in relation to Jesus.
Decker thinks that the NIV 2011 more accurately reflects this text than the NIV 1984 and other similar translations. When Psalm 8 is interpreted on its own (without reading any NT use back into the OT text) the psalm refers only to human beings. This is the original meaning – what it meant to the original readers and hearers. The point of the psalm is that even though humans are puny beings in comparison with God, we are God's special creations with privilege and responsibility to rule over the rest of creation (v. 5-8). Both "man" and "son of man" refer to the human race, not to any specific person. As such, using English plural pronouns ("them") following them is appropriate. There is no hint here of anything Messianic. If we had only Psalm 8, we would never suspect that it had any relevance to Jesus.
|But there is a place where someone has testified:
|But there is a place where someone has testified:
|Hebrews 2:6
|"What is man that you are mindful of him,
|"What is mankind that you are mindful of them,
|the son of man that you care for him?
|a son of man that you care for him?
|7You made him a little lower than the angels;
|7You made them a little lower than the angels;
|Hebrews 2:7
|you crowned him with glory and honor
|you crowned them with glory and honor
|8and put everything under his feet."
|8and put everything under their feet."b
|Hebrews 2:8
|In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him.9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
|In putting everything under them, God left nothing that is not subject to them. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to them.9But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
|Hebrews 2:8b-9
|b 7,8 Or 7You made him a little lower than the angels; you crowned him with glory and honor 8and put everything under his feet."
Hebrews 2:6-8 quotes Psalm 8:4-6. Once again it's all about human beings, although "at present we do not see everything subject to them" (v.8b). The dominion over the rest of creation given to humans has never been properly administered. This problem is solved in v.9 where Jesus is introduced as the One who became human to fulfil the typology of Ps 8 – He will demonstrate this dominion in His coming kingdom. The incarnation began demonstrating how someone who is fully human should and will exercise the dominion God intended.
This means there is nothing obscured in the NIV 2011 version of Psalm 8. A generic reference for humanity is thus valid for Psalm 8:4-8 and Hebrews 2:5-8. Only in Hebrews 2:9 does the reference become Christological and singular, and at that point the NIV 2011 is perfectly clear.
Other changes
The NIV 2011 more often explicitly represents the conjunctions compared with the NIV 1984, which often left them untranslated for reasons of English style (see Rom. 1:16). Also some passages that have been debated and for which there are multiple options have been left open (see Rom. 1:17). Decker thinks most of these of changes are improvements that contribute to understanding the Bible in English.
|I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God
|For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God
|Romans 1:16
|For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed
|For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed
|Romans 1:17
In Part 1 of this series, it was noted that the Greek word "sarx" was usually translated as "the flesh" in the NIV 2011 instead of "the sinful nature" as in the NIV 1984. Although this was because "sarx" can mean either part or all of the human body or the human being under the power of sin, I expressed some uneasiness about this change. Decker thinks that this change encourages some people to think of the physical body as sinful and is inclined to think the earlier choice was better in many cases, but "sarx" does not always have the same meaning. However, "sinful nature" remains in Romans 7:18, 25.
Evaluation criteria
Decker also evaluated the NIV 2011 in terms of its accuracy, clarity, naturalness, and appropriateness. He rates it high in terms of accuracy as the meaning is communicated accurately. By taking a mediating position between formal and functional equivalence (though tending closer to the formal end of the spectrum), the NIV 2011 has been able to produce a text that is clearer than many translations, especially those weighted more heavily with formal equivalence. It excels in communicating clearly in the language of the average English-speaking person. By using expressions that a receptor-language speaker would use, the NIV 2011 sounds much more natural than many other translations. Also, it is as well-suited for expository preaching as it is for public reading and use in Bible classes and children's ministries.
In Decker's opinion, the NIV 2011 is a usable translation in many situations. It continues the NIV tradition largely unchanged, though improved in many small ways. It is not perfect, but no translation is. Overall, however, it improves an otherwise fine translation. He thinks that many churches would find it helpful in ministry. It is of sufficient quality and accuracy to serve as the primary Bible in the local church, just as was the NIV 1984. So long as one realizes that the purpose of gender accurate language is to accurately reflect the language in the original texts of Scripture, it is hard to fathom objections.
One group of churches that uses the NIV 1984 is of the opinion that if a church began using the NIV 2011 in public reading tomorrow, most congregation members wouldn't even notice the change.
In this part of an evaluation of the NIV 2011 Bible, the contributions of an independent New Testament scholar, Dr Rodney Decker, have been presented. As Professor of New Testament and Greek at a US Baptist Bible Seminary, Dr Decker has provided expert input on the linguistic aspects of this evaluation including grammar and syntax (the rules that govern the ways in which words combine to form phrases, clauses, and sentences). Dr Decker confirms that the NIV 2011 is an improvement on the NIV 1984.
Written January 2013
See the next article in this series:
– Criticisms of the NIV Bible
Improvements in the NIV Bible between 1984 and 2011 – Part 1
It's important for people to be able to read and hear the Bible in their own language.
How the Bible came to us is described in the blog, Can we trust our Bibles. The steps in the process are:
- God-breathed: The original text was "God-breathed" via the prophets and apostles
- Preservation: Faithful copies of the original text have been preserved
- Scholarship: Textural scholars have reconstructed the original text
- Translation: The reconstructed text has been translated into various languages
The two most recent translations of the NIV Bible were done in 1984 and 2011. The process of translation involves transferring the message from a source language to a receptor language. In the case of the NIV2011 the source languages are Hebrew (Old Testament) and Greek (New Testament) and the receptor language is everyday English. New translations are needed from time to time because all languages are constantly changing.
This evaluation of the NIV 2011 Bible looks at:
- Part 1 A statement by the committee that did the translation
- Part 2 A statement by an independent Bible scholar
- Part 3 A statement by a group that is critical of the NIV 2011
Assessment of statement by the committee that did the translation
A summary of the changes made in the 2011 update of the NIV Bible are available from the committee that did the translation.
The update reflects advances in biblical scholarship and changes in the usage of the English language between 1984 and 2011. Some examples of these are given below (italics added to highlight the changes). About 95% of the text is unchanged between 1984 and 2011.
Changes in English usage
|Sample reference
|Genesis 23:4
|ankle chains
|Isaiah 3:20
|heart will be glad
|he will be glad
|Exodus 4:14
|overweening pride
|great . . . arrogance
|Isaiah 16:6; Jeremiah 48:29
Advances in scholarship
|Sample reference
|guest room
|Luke 2:7
|Mark 15:27
|false gods
|Psalm 106:37
|richly ornamented robe
|ornate robe
|Genesis 37:3
|something to be grasped
|something to be used to his own advantage
|Philippians 2:6
Improved clarity
|Sample reference
|when Jacob saw Rachel daughter of Laban, his mother's brother …
|when Jacob saw Rachel daughter of his uncle Laban …
|Genesis 29:10
A simplification.
|If only there were someone to arbitrate between us, to lay his hand upon us both
|If only there were someone to mediate between us, someone to bring us together
|Job 9:33
Explains the second clause.
|I can do everything through him who gives me strength
|I can do all this through him who gives me strength
|Philippians 4:13
Stops misapplication outside the context of v.12 (to be content in all circumstances, whether in riches or in poverty).
Improved accuracy in gender language
About 25% of the changes related to gender. The Collins Bank of English was used to determine current usage of gender language. Some of the guidelines used were:
- "Ancestors" usually replaced "forefathers".
- When it was clear that a passage addressed both men and women, "brothers and sisters" usually replaced "brothers" (Greek "adelphoi"). In this sense, the NIV 2011 is more gender accurate than the NIV 1984.
- When the Greek word "anēr" ("man" or "person") refers to both men and women, this is made explicit.
- A variety of words were used to replace words that referred to both men and women. For example: "people", "humans", "human beings", "humanity", "human race", "mankind", and "man" (which has been retained for some memorial phrases, such as "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath", Mark 2:27). Here is an example of some of these changes.
Examples of texts that now have "mankind" where they didn't before include:
- "Let us make mankind in our image" (Genesis 1:26a);
- "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12); and
- "For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5).
Some other examples are given below (italics added).
|Reference / Note
|I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a servant of the church in Cenchrea. I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of the saints and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been a great help to many people, including me.
|I commend to you our sister, Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae. I ask you to receive her in the Lord in a way worthy of his people and to give her any help she may need from you, for she has been the benefactor of many people, including me.
|Romans 16:1-2
According to current scholarship, "diakonos" means "deacon", not just "servant" and "prostatis" means patron or benefactor not just someone who was a "great help" in some unspecified way.
|For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head.
|It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own head, because of the angels
|1 Corinthians 11:10
"a sign of" did not correspond to anything explicitly in the Greek.
|I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.
|I do not permit a woman to teach or assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.
|1 Timothy 2:12
There is uncertainty in the meaning of the rare Greek word "authentein". Other alternatives are "exercise authority" and "usurp authority".From the context, I assume that "authentein" includes the authority of an elder in the local church (1 Timothy 3:1-7)
|In the same way, their wives are to be women worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.
|In the same way, the women are to be worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything
|1 Timothy 3:11
From the context, it is possible that these women were either deacons' wives or women deacons.
Other improvements
Some other improvements include:
- "Saints" often becomes "God's people," "the Lord's people," "the Lord's holy people" and the like.
- In the Gospels and Acts, when associated with the coming deliverer of the Jews, "Christ" has often been changed to "Messiah."
- In the New Testament, "spirit" has been capitalised whenever a reference to the Holy Spirit made good sense in a given context.
- Most occurrences of "sinful nature" have become "flesh". Especially in Paul's letters, "sarx" can mean either part or all of the human body or the human being under the power of sin. In an effort to capture this latter sense of the word, the NIV 1984 often rendered sarx as "sinful nature." But this expression can mislead readers into thinking the human person is made up of various compartments, one of which is sarx, whereas the biblical writers' point is that humans can choose to yield themselves to a variety of influences or powers, one of which is the sin-producing sarx. The updated NIV uses "flesh" as the translation in many places where it is important for readers to decide for themselves from the context whether one or both of these uses of sarx is present.
Some well-known texts that have been updated are given below.
|Reference / Note
|Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me
|Even though I walk through the darkest valley, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me
|Psalm 23:4
"shadow of death" is a metaphor
|'I hate divorce,' says the Lord God of Israel, 'and I hate a man's covering himself with violence as well as with his garment,' says the Lord Almighty. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith.
|'The man who hates and divorces his wife,' says the Lord, the God of Israel, 'does violence to the one he should protect,' says the Lord Almighty. So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful.
|Malachi 2:16
The beginning of the verse is hard to translate.
|Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
|Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!
|2 Corinthians 5:17
It is likely that Paul is making a much more sweeping claim than just the salvation of the individual believer.
|For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world.
|For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.
|1 John 2:16
Returns to KJV rendering.
It is clear that most of the changes mentioned above are improvements to the accuracy and understandability of the NIV Bible. As I am not qualified to comment on some aspects of the linguistic changes, these have been omitted above.
With regard to the word "mankind", I prefer to use the word "humanity". Other changes that may take a while to get used to are "the flesh" (from "the sinful nature"), "impure spirits" (from "evil spirits") and "forbearance" (from "patience"). I need to investigate these further.
As the changes to 1 Corinthians 11:10 and 1 Timothy 3:11 move the verses closer to the Greek text, they are an improvement.
The change to Romans 16:1-2 was based on current scholarship, although I suspect that whether Phoebe was a deacon in the local church will be debated by some. On the other hand they would probably accept a woman as the coordinator of a children's ministry at church, which could be deemed to be the role of a deacon (Acts 6:1-6; 1 Tim. 3:8-13).
The change to 1 Timothy 2:12 has some ambiguity, but this may be appropriate as there is uncertainty in the meaning of the rare Greek word "authentein".
On the whole, this assessment of the statement by the committee that did the translation indicates that the NIV 2011 is an improvement on the NIV 1984.
Written January 2013
See the next article in this series:
– Improvements in the NIV Bible between 1984 and 2011 – Part 2
Overcoming the barriers of language and culture
Relevant Principles
Christianity is for people of all languages and all cultures all over the world. Christ said it Himself: "God so loved the (multicultural) world (of humanity) that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life" (Jn. 3:16 NIV). He commissioned His followers to "make disciples of all nations" (Mt. 28:19), and this great commission is the basis of all evangelism. Missionaries spend years studying and learning the languages and cultures of other nations, tribes and peoples in order to fulfill our Lord's command.
Christ's incarnation – His coming to earth and living as a fellow human being – is the ideal example of how to relate to another culture. He identified very closely with humanity in every way, except for sin. He identified particularly with the common, ordinary people of His day, as He usually spoke their language (Aramaic) rather than Hebrew, the religious language of the Jews, or Greek, the international language of trade and scholarship in the Roman empire. Aramaic was the mother tongue of most of the Jews of first century Palestine; those raised outside of Palestine spoke Greek. Only about 5 percent of the population were literate in Hebrew, so Christ spoke in the vernacular, the language of the people, rather than the scholarly language1.
It is interesting to note that God performed a linguistic miracle when He communicated the gospel to a multicultural crowd in Acts 2: "there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. When they heard this sound … each one heard their own language being spoken" (Acts 2:5-6). God wanted these people to hear His message in their own language. And Acts 2:9-11 goes on to mention at least 16 different countries by way of example.
Today, there is often diversity of language and culture in our ever-changing communities, especially as the world population becomes increasingly more mobile. But the body of believers is called to transcend the differences of language and culture: "There is neither Jew nor Gentile … for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:28). All have the right to approach God, and the responsibility to discover and apply scriptural truths within their own cultural situation.
This should really challenge evangelists and missionaries. This should also challenge church groups – especially those whose roots go back to earlier generations – as they reach out to the lost in their communities.
Relevant Practices
To apply the above principles, we need to do four things:
1. Have a healthy acceptance of cultural variance, including respect for language preference as much as possible.
2. Take account of people's language, way of life and culture as we go about the Lord's business of making disciples in our church gatherings.
3. Encourage expression of biblical truths and practices in appropriate contemporary language, songs and cultural forms. Use everyday language as much as possible, rather than imposing a "foreign" language or one from a previous era.
4. Train fellow believers to apply biblical principles to their cultural context and so enable each generation to come to its own living faith (2 Tim. 2:2).
End notes
1. Herbert V. Klen, Oral Communication of Scripture, 1982, William Carey Library, Pasadena, California.
2. Biblical truth transcends language and culture: Christ spoke Aramaic, He read the Old Testament in Hebrew, and His words were recorded in Koine Greek by the writers of the New Testament. The New Testament was not written in a peculiar language, as some medieval scholars believed, but in the everyday language of the era.
Published, June 1997


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HOUSTON – Chickasaw County's unemployment rate dropped under 10 percent in November and hinted at a stronger job market at year-end.
Chickasaw County's unemployment rate stood at 9.6 percent and was done from 10.5 percent in October and 12.3 percent a year ago.
While many retail employers hire additional workers to help with the Christmas shopping season that boost is often offset by a slow down in the agriculture sector. The most recent numbers indicate there has been a boost in hiring in the local manufacturing sector.
Rankin County's 4.6 percent remained the lowest jobless rate in the state. Clay County's 16.1 percent remained the highest.
Unemployment rates fell from October to November in all but one of Mississippi's 82 counties, according to figures released by the Mississippi Department of Employment Security.
Surrounding county unemployment rates were:
6.6 percent – Pontotoc County.
7.2 percent – Oktibbeha County.
7.4 percent – Itawamba County.
7.5 percent – Calhoun County.
7.6 percent – Lee County.
8.5 percent – Choctaw County.
9.7 percent – Webster County.
10.6 percent – Monroe County.
16.1 percent — Clay County.
Lafayette County had the lowest unemployment rate in Northeast Mississippi at 5.4 percent. The state's metropolitan areas of DeSoto and Madison counties had rates of 5.3 percent each.
Chickasaw County's estimated labor force was 7,660 last month with 6,920 of those with jobs and 740 job seekers out of work.
The county's job market did shrink from a year ago when the labor force was estimated at 7,870.
Seasonally adjusted, the state's jobless rate fell to 8.5 percent in November from October's 9 percent. November 2011's rate was 10.6 percent. Last months numbers were the lowest since February 2009.
Statewide, more people found work even while fewer people were looking, cutting the pool of unemployed people to about 113,000. That's down 7,000 from October and well below November 2011's level of 143,000.
Weakness in summer job numbers led economists to warn Mississippi had slipped back into recession, but growth appears to have restarted in September.
A separate survey of employer payrolls shows nonfarm employees rose for the third straight month and was above the November 2011 total. That's the first time in 2012 payrolls have risen year over year.
Nationally, new orders sent to factories did not rise in November, as was expected, but a survey of planned business spending was up, according to a U.S. Commerce Department released last week. This trend may be an indicator businesses were either waiting on a federal "fiscal cliff" budget decision or believe the national economy will move up in 2013.

subset: commoncrawl


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October 18, 2007
Brian Perroni
The Texas A&M football program has not received much good news in a while. Although the team is 5-2, a lopsided loss at Texas Tech this past weekend has brought unrest. Also, the recent revelation that head coach Dennis Franchione had a secret email list that recipients paid $1,200 annually to be informed of injuries and the like has caused a strain on the College Station campus.
On Thursday night, the Aggie program took another hit. Aldine Eisenhower safety Craig Loston, who committed to A&M in February of his sophomore year, decided to re-open his recruitment. Although only a junior, the 6-foot-1, 190 pound prospect is already being courted by schools all across the country. He says that he does not want to limit his options.
Despite only being a junior, Loston has received offers from Miami, Florida, Colorado, Kansas State, Penn State and Minnesota. ...More... To continue reading this article you must be a member. Sign Up Now!
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Public Lecture: Rachel Weiss
Saturday May 10 2014, 1:00pm until 3:00pm
Performing/Visual Arts. MDC Museum of Art + Design, 600 Biscayne Blvd, Miami, FL. United states.Posted by ebuege.
MDC Museum of Art + Design
600 Biscayne Blvd. Miami, FL. 33132
Public Lecture:
Rachel Weiss, author of To and from Utopia in the New Cuban Art
Saturday, May 10, 2014
1 p.m.
Free and open to the Public
Rachel Weiss offers a critical look at contemporary Cuban art history, exploring its remarkable artistic accomplishments and its role as catalyst for, and site of, public debate based on her recent book To and from Utopia in the New Cuban Art. The publication will be available for purchase at the Museum, with a signing opportunity at the conclusion of the lecture.


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SanDisk, Sony work on speedy 32GB Memory Stick
updated 09:20 am EST, Mon December 11, 2006
32GB Memory Stick PRO-HG
Citing the increased need for flash memory with the speed and storage for video, SanDisk and Sony together revealed Memory Stick PRO-HG, an update to Sony's format that addresses both limits in dramatic fashion, according to the two companies. The format is expected to use refinements in flash chip manufacturing to raise the capacity to as much as 32GB, rivaling the hard drives found in newer portable media players. A combination of a higher interface clock rate and doubled bandwidth will also increase its performance, the partnership claims. If a host device is optimized for PRO-HG, data can be written to the card at a minimum of 15MB per second, more than double the 6MB minimum speed of SD cards. This makes the format ideal for recording video or other content that can quickly consume large amounts of storage. The format will be released in 2007, though neither SanDisk nor Sony would confirm if or when a 32GB card would be available.


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- KNIA / KRLS - http://kniakrls.com -
Central Men's Golfers Return to National Stage Today
Posted By Sports On May 15, 2012 @ 5:56 am In Today's Local Sports | Comments Disabled
The Central College men's golf team opens play at the NCAA Division III Championships today at the Mission Inn Resort and Club in Howey-in-the-Hills, Florida. A trip to the four-day, 72-hole tournament was earned on May 5th, when the Dutch captured their 30th league title to put their name amongst 40 other programs and a total of 210 players.
On Central's side is a veteran crew that features three seniors and a junior that have all competed on the national stage before. The Dutch will need that experience, as the tournament field abruptly drops to just 15 teams after the first two rounds. Competition begins on the par-72 Las Colinas course, with the final two rounds taking place on the par-73 El Campeon.
Article printed from KNIA / KRLS: http://kniakrls.com
URL to article: http://kniakrls.com/2012/05/central-mens-golfers-return-to-national-stage-today/
Click here to print.
Copyright © 2009 KNIA/KRLS. All rights reserved.


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Louis Peters
- Filed Under
Authorities arrested a man Sunday after he was suspected of firing a bullet into a woman's apartment on Waterford Loop, according to the Augusta County Sheriff's Office.
Louis Peters, 28, of Staunton, is charged with discharging a firearm into a dwelling and possession of a firearm by a convicted felon.
The shooting took place about ...


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Torbay's shocking new working class — the work they do no longer pays
Posted: July 03, 2012|
TORBAY has tens of thousands of working people living on the edge of poverty — one big bill away from destitution.
A new survey puts Torbay top of the list in a national table with more than one third of all households falling into the 'at risk' category.
Many of the 22,000 households are working families but, because Torbay has the lowest wage economy in the country, many have no savings, no equity in their homes and no assets to cover any financial setback.
The shocking league table shows Torbay has 37 per cent of at risk households, seven per cent ahead of Hyndburn in Lancashire which has 30 per cent of people living on the edge of penury.
Related content
Teignbridge is placed 13th in the league, with 28 per cent at risk, and the South Hams is 110th with 18 per cent of households at risk of falling into poverty.
The families at risk are described as a 'traditionally proud, self-reliant, working people'.
Bruno Rost, head of Experian Public Sector, which carried out research to identify those belonging to At-Risk Britain, said: "These are the new working class — except the work they do no longer pays.
"These people say that being forced to claim benefits or move into a council property would be the worst kind of social ignominy and self-failure."
Following news that Torbay is the area most at risk of rising poverty in England, MP Adrian Sanders has called on the Government to refine its economic policy.
Mr Sanders (pictured) says it is a result of the lack of high quality, full time jobs in the Bay.
He says that in the current recession Torbay has been relatively insulated from the high unemployment levels of previous recessions but this has masked the pressure on living standards as the cost of housing, fuel and food rises while local wages remain comparatively low.
Mr Sanders has urged the Government to concentrate on investing in skills, affordable housing and better transport links to help reduce the danger of poverty to these 22,000 families.
Mr Sanders said: "We already have the vital investment for the bypass which will encourage investment locally and work is progressing well on the skills agenda because of our excellent colleges and schools.
"The new bypass is already having a positive impact with more people wanting to grow businesses here and wanting to invest on the back of that."
But he said the biggest problem now is the lack of affordable family homes.
"It's a vicious cycle. We have the skills and the transport but if you cannot house your family, you will have to move away.
"What is now needed is a clear strategy for revamping the housing market.
"Housing costs in Torbay have rocketed compared to wages while demand for low cost housing has increased enormously.
"It's not being tackled by the local authority. Direct Government investment in good quality family homes will be the simplest way to rectify this problem and reduce the danger of poverty locally and I will be encouraging ministers to look at this closely."
He said: "We have the lowest wage economy in the country.
"There is also a failure to understand that anti-social behaviour problems are not linked to areas where there is social housing.
"It's in places where there are higher numbers of private sector rented accommodation with absentee landlords and inadequate accommodation for families with children.
"It's a problem that has been creeping up on us for decades."
Liberal Democrat group leader on Torbay Council, Steve Darling, said: "The figures released by Experian are very worrying and highlight the problems facing the residents of Torbay within an economy based on low-wage, seasonal jobs.
"The future of Torbay's economy must lie in better quality, year-round employment which gives its residents the chance of a better quality of life, not simply struggling to keep their heads above the line."
He says mayor Gordon Oliver (pictured right) needs to re-think his strategy of pushing Torbay further down the tourism route and look for alternative job creation schemes.
A Torbay Council spokesman said it 'recognises the issues affecting Torbay' and had 'many measures and strategies in place to try and reduce poverty and social deprivation in the Bay'.
He added: "We are working closely with our partners to address inequalities but it is a complex issue heightened by the fact that we are experiencing financial constraints.
"We do adopt a 'first and most' policy which targets resources at the areas and people that are most at need.
"Torbay Council is also committed to creating opportunities for the community through job-led regeneration, creating an environment that encourages inward investment and raising skills levels in the Bay.
"All these things will help improve the prospects of Torbay's economy to prevent more people from experiencing financial and social problems and to help more people escape poverty."


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Updated 02/03/2015
For more than 50 years this Tiburon landmark that overlooks the bay has been the place to come to mark special occasions. The views are spectacular, and soft-yellow walls and starched white tablecloths help to make the space bright and light. Elegant comfort food is the specialty, with choices like seared day-boat scallops or pan-roasted filet mignon. Polishing off the warm chocolate cake with almond ice cream while gazing out at the sunset and porpoises bobbing in the waves below is a near perfect end to the evening.
2000 Paradise Dr., Tiburon, California, 94920, United States
Website: www.thecaprice.com
Restaurant Details:
Updated 02/03/2015
No Thanks


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We just drove a Land Rover using an iPhone
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Uber self-driving cars hit the roads, Johnny Cabs may one day be a thing
Uber had previously stated its intention to develop autonomous vechicles, basing itself in Pittburgh. Those cars are now hitting the roads. Uber located its Uber Advanced Technologies Center in the Pennsylvania city, with the aim of one day of having... >>
Google self-driving cars to hit the public roads this summer
Google has announced that the general public will be driving on roads with its self-driving cars from this summer. Despite recent news of reported accidents with its autonomous vehicles, Google is confidently moving forward. The public of Mountain View... >>
Google's self-driving car crash: Is media coverage just hype or should we know more?
UPDATE: Google has announced, via Backchannel, that it's self-driving cars have been in 11 accidents in the last 6 years, none of which were the fault of the self-driving cars. Self-driving cars are currently being tested in the US where 4 of the 48... >>
Audi self-driving A7 'production ready' after 550-mile drive to CES in Las Vegas
An Audi A7 has driven itself over 550-miles from San Francisco all the way to CES 2015 in Las Vegas. Audi says that the self-driving A7 has sensors that it claims are now "production ready". Despite being a futuristic car the sensors aren't all new with... >>
Google's driverless car with no steering wheel or brakes is now forced to offer manual controls
Google's new self-driving car prototypes have hit a bump in the road. They now need to feature manual controls by next month, or else Google will no longer be able to test them in California. Google announced in May that it built a prototype self-driving... >>
Google's self-driving cars are capable of breaking the speed limit, if necessary
Google's self-driving cars are designed to break the law. Sort of. Dmitri Dolgov, the moonshot's lead software engineer, told Reuters that Google's self-driving cars attempt to stay within the speed limit, but certin traffic conditions might encourage... >>
Hyundai gets stunt drivers to dive out of moving cars to show them self-driving
We've heard of cars driving themselves in convoys, but never seen it looking so cool. Hyundai has got a bunch of daredevils to dive from moving cars onto a truck bed, while the cars carry on driving. The best bit isn't just the Hyundai Advanced Smart... >>
Google's next self-driving car will have no brakes or steering wheel
Google has released details of prototype self-driving passenger cars that look far more like the ones you might have seen in science fiction movies. But they will be in operation within two years. They have no pedals. That's means that there's no manual... >>
Google self-driving cars can now spot cyclist signals, level crossings and more
Google's self-driving cars are now street smart for cities. Up until recently, the autonomous vehicles from Mountain View were best suited to wide-open roads like highways (or as Californians would say, freeways). But they've now logged nearly 700,000... >>


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Thursday, February 28, 2013
WALLA WALLA — Dynasty.
In sporting use, the word denotes a team that has dominated a league for a long period of time — long enough for several generations of players and coaches to rotate through.
Think New York Yankees. New England Patriots. Detroit Red Wings. Alabama Crimson Tide in football. UCLA in the Wooden years.
But not the DeSales girls basketball team.
Although the Irish have made five trips to state since 2002 and coach Tim Duncan has almost completed his 18th season as the head man, compiling a 308-137 record in the process, they have never won it all.
DeSales has never won a basketball state championship — girls or boys — according to the District 9 record book.
But look up dynasty in the dictionary — the non-sporting one — and the definition is different: a succession of rulers of the same family or lineage.
Duncan would probably like to establish a dynasty in the former sense, and DeSales could take another step in that direction this week (today through Saturday) at the WIAA Class 2B Hardwood Classic state championship tournament in Spokane.
But whether or not the Irish bring home the top trophy, his daughters Nicole and Caitlin, both DeSales grads who have grown up at the Irish gym, are looking to make a dynasty in the latter sense.
Both have an eye on the head coaching job at DeSales, and although coach Duncan hasn't set any timeline on retiring, it's likely they'll get a chance in the not-so-distant future.
"They've kind of mapped out my future for me," coach Duncan said. "I've got to coach long enough for (Caitlin) to be one of my assistants for a couple years, that would be my dream."
"Hopefully, in a few years I'l have both of my daughters on the sidelines with me."
Nicole, 24, has a head start on Caitlin, 20, who is still playing at Walla Walla Community College.
Duncan's eldest daughter played for the Warriors and coach Bobbi Hazeltine as well, helping lead WWCC to a 25-11 season and a fourth-place finish at the NWAACCs in 2008-09.
Nicole transferred to Eastern Washington University after leaving WWCC to seek a degree in education and become a math teacher.
"(Nicole) was more of a role player, we had a lot of talent on those teams," Hazeltine recalls. "Nicole was a 3-point shooter, that was her specialty.
"She saved us a couple of games," Hazeltine said. "I remember a couple of games at Spokane where no one could make shots except Nicole, and she saved us."
In her sophomore season at WWCC, Nicole shot 37 percent from 3-point range (29-of-73) and averaged 7.21 points per game.
She initially considered walking on at EWU, but decided she wanted to live the normal college student life.
"I thought about walking on, but I don't know what changed my mind," Nicole said. "I was done working at it, I just wanted to be normal."
After graduating from EWU in 2011, she returned to the Valley for a teaching assistant job at Pioneer Middle School with an eye towards following in in her father's footsteps at DeSales. Nicole was an assistant for both the DeSales basketball team and volleyball team this year.
"I have always wanted to teach at DeSales and be a volleyball coach," said Nicole. "Obviously, basketball was more of what I wanted because my dad was the basketball coach, and eventually I want to take over and be the head coach."
The Duncans lead the Irish against Morton-White Pass in the Hardwood Classic this afternoon in Spokane.
Caitlin is still playing at WWCC after leading the Irish to an appearance at state in 2010, her senior year.
Although at 5-foot-10 she had more of a post game than her older sister, who stands at 5-8, it was Caitlin's uncanny 3-point shooting ability that got her on with Hazeltine.
"Caitlin could do it all," coach Duncan said. "Her range was scary. She was a better shooter the farther back she got, it was uncanny. And she was a great post player, too."
Coach Duncan said Caitlin averaged 20 points a game her senior season at DeSales.
"Every night she was a marked player," coach Duncan said. "Everyone knew that this is who we have to stop, and they couldn't do it."
Caitlin isn't quite tall enough to be a true post at the college level, however, and her freshman year she followed in her sister's footsteps as a 3-point specialist.
It took a massive knee injury at the 2011 Peach Basket Classic, the annual 3-on-3 basketball tournament hosted by the YMCA in downtown Walla Walla, for Caitlin to develop into the multiple-threat player she is now.
"I knocked knees with someone and I was instantly screaming," Caitlin recalled. "I didn't want to look at it — it looked like my knee had just shifted off to the side. All I remember was laying there freaking out on the hot cement ground."
A trainer at the tournament told her that she likely tore her anterior cruciate ligament (ACL), but a doctor's diagnosis nearly a week after the tournament was much worse: she had torn her ACL, her medial collateral ligament (MCL) and her meniscus.
The injury sidelined her for the entire season and into the spring of 2012, but Caitlin never thought of transferring from WWCC, despite the fact that she had already accumulated enough credits to transfer after her sophomore year.
"I did not want basketball to end like that for me," Nicole said. "It was too big a part of my life for it to end like that."
It took Hazeltine asking if Caitlin was going to redshirt for the thought to leave to even occur.
"I went over to her house right away and asked what she wanted to do," Hazeltine said.
When Caitlin said she wanted to come back, "I was so relieved because she was such a good student, she could have easily moved on," Hazeline said. "I was just so relieved to have her back, not only as a player but for the team. She's just so important."
The knee injury kept Caitlin off the court until this past spring, but she didn't mope, or even really slow down.
She ran for president of the WWCC ASB, a position she holds again this year, and polished her 3.99 grade point average while still attending practices and games.
The time off the court gave her a chance to observe the game from a different perspective, and she realized she needed to add another element to her game.
"After I hurt my knee, I spent that whole year just watching," Caitlin said. "That was tough, but I could see the whole game. And then I spent the whole summer in the gym and I worked really hard to get back my strength and get ready to go. I wanted my (redshirt) sophomore year to be as successful as a it could be."
The work paid off.
After averaging 7.2 points per game her freshman season she is up to 11.65 this season and making 38 percent of her shots from the floor. This despite the fact that she shares time with two of the other top scorers in the NWAACC East Region in Michelle Seitz and Hailey Felgenhauer.
"She has the uncanny ability now of taking the ball to the hole," said coach Duncan, who watches all of his daughter's games when not coaching his own team. "She can throw a ball-fake out to the perimenter or put the ball on the ground and take it to the hole. I've been really impressed at how she's evolved and become a better player."
Along with her ability to drive the lane, Caitlin developed her game on the defensive end, making her indispensable to the Warriors.
"She's gotten to be a much better defensive player, and I just have a hard time taking her out of a game," Hazeltine said. "Most of the time you have to worry about not playing a player enough, but I've been apologizing to her for playing her too much.
"I just can't afford to have her on the bench. She does so much for us, but she's a smart player, she's a cerebral player. She really understands the game and it's hard to take her off the floor."
Now Caitlin has a chance to do something that eluded her and her sister at DeSales and again her freshman year at WWCC: win a title.
The Warrior women have had one of the most successful seasons in coach Hazeltine's illustrious career at WWCC, and at 23-3 are looking to take their first NWAACC title since capturing that honor in 2010.
The tournament begins Saturday when WWCC takes on Southwest Oregon at 6 p.m. at the Toyota Center in Kennewick.
"This is huge," Caitlin said. "We're so excited and so ready to go. This is the point of the season that everyone has been working for, this is what all the hard work has come down to."
Caitlin said she hasn't decided what she wants to do after exhausting her eligibility at WWCC, whether or not she will keep playing college basketball or just attend school and complete her elementary education degree.
Either way, she wants to attend Central Washington University in Ellensburg, and would like to come back to Walla Walla to coach and teach in the Walla Walla Valley.
For coach Duncan, who said he always tried to take a hands-off approach to his daughters' basketball careers for fear of burning them out, their desire to coach is like a dream come true.
In fact, having two daughters helped inform his decision to coach girls basketball at DeSales in the first place.
Coach Duncan played basketball and baseball at DeSales and in college. He coached baseball at Wa-Hi and at DeSales before settling down as the girls basketball coach for the Irish in 1992.
"When it was found that we were having two daughters, I wanted to coach basketball in the worst way," coach Duncan said. "When the opening at DeSales came, it just made sense."
The girls started hanging around Duncan's practices when Nicole got into the fourth grade, Caitlin the first, and just watched, shot around, and helped get the players water and other things.
Then they progressed through middle school and eventually played for Duncan at the high school level.
"I just kind of left them alone," coach Duncan said. "I didn't want to put any pressure on them because even when you don't they can kind of feel it."
And when outside of practice or games, basketball was a taboo subject unless the girls brought it up.
"We didn't spend a lot of time at home talking about (basketball)," coach Duncan said. "They got enough of me at practice."
And now he wants to help them transition into coaching.
"Co-coach, head coach — I think that's what they would like to do, that's what I would like them to do, and hopefully the school (DeSales) would be open to that," coach Duncan said. "I think (DeSales) would."
"Caitlin will make a really good coach, except the fact that she's one of the nicest people I've ever met," Hazeltine said. "As far as her mind for the game goes, she's got it. She's going to be really good at that some day."
Nicole, on the other hand, has found her father's ability to get fiery when it's called for.
"There've been a couple of times where we've (DeSales) been in a drill and it's gotten a little sloppy, and I just get on them (players), and my dad just says, you know, you're getting there," Nicole said. "I'm kind of taking after him a little bit."


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In this morning's media roundup, North Castle strikes a deal to sell water bottle maker Ignite Holdings, while Bridgepoint considers and IPO for a London-based wealth adviser.
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New "AAA" quality I.P. can be a hit-or-miss product -- probably one reason why so many game companies are content to churn out sequel after sequel for franchises that have proven themselves worth the effort. Bethesda, which is still riding high off of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, has recently released the vengeance tale Dishonored -- a title that is sure to be a hit.
In Dishonored, the player takes the role of Corvo Attano. He's the personal bodyguard to the Empress of the City of Dunwall who had recently returned from an unsuccessful trip to other principalities with hopes to find a cure to the rat plague that's infested Dunwall. Soon after his return, however, the Empress is slain and her daughter kidnapped. With nobody other than Corvo as a witness, the bodyguard is imprisoned and sentenced to death by a corrupt few in powerful positions within the city. With the help of an underground revolutionary group, Corvo is able to escape his incarceration. This is where the story of the dishonored bodyguard-turned-assassin begins.
While intriguing, the overarching plot is rather canned with variations of it appearing in games like Capcom's fairly recent action title Asura's Wrath. How the story is presented, however, more than makes up for it being one that's been done before; and the setting of a dystopian city with industrial revolution era roots proves quite appealing.
Before its release, Dishonored was billed as a stealth game (a dying breed according to some). Bethesda wasn't incorrect in calling the game as such, yet there are ways in which Dishonored can be played that would throw stealth out the window. In fact, stealth gameplay is just one of the options players have as the game can just as effectively be played aggressively -- pistol in hand. Of course, a mix of the two styles works perfectly fine.
Stealth gameplay works rather industry-standard. The player lurks in the shadows a-la Splinter Cell, runs along rooftops a-la Assassin's Creed, and does his best to stay hidden to achieve his goals -- only revealing himself when absolutely necessary. Luckily, thanks to a touch of the supernatural, Corvo has a few tricks to help him find a means to each mission's end such as the ability to take temporary possession of a host body. Going stealth also means finding non-violent ways of dispatching targets, such as turning up the steam on one; or poisoning the tea of another.
Aggro is much more action oriented and, one must admit, entertaining. There is a cost, however, for viciously slaying one's enemies rather than covertly taking care of business as violent and dangerous encounters with those known as Weepers (people infected by the plague) become increasingly frequent. The game sees subtle changes as well should the player choose a darker and more violent path in the way NPCs interact with Corvo. Organic changes in story presentation due to play style is something not seen in many games and gives a better overall presentation than simply giving the player a message stating "You've lost karma".
The missions themselves have a lot to them. Sure, just getting the basics done can be trouble enough, but each one also has a number of side quests (some of which have side quests of their own). Taking part in these optional tasks does impact gameplay -- typically for the better. If nothing else, they'll help Corvo grow stronger; making for a slightly easier time down the road.
When it comes to presentation, Dishonored satisfies. Its art style won't appeal to everybody, but it has its own distinct look and relishes within it. Characters look good, yet unrealistic -- a sign that the developers at Arcane were more concerned with setting a certain mood than they were trying to accurately portray the human body. (Some faces, for example, come off as overly long.) Still, for a game utilizing the mildly outdated Unreal Engine 3, it simply looks good.
Audio, however, isn't quite so spot on. For example the amount of ambient NPC dialogue isn't there, which leads to NPCs repeating phrases enough that the player will notice. Actual conversational dialogue, however, is excellently done. Also, for as nice as the (sparse) soundtrack is, it suffers from intermittent yet mild popping.
2012 has been a fairly busy year in gaming and has already seen a number of great games. The Bethesda-published Dishonored ranks right up there with some of the best of them and should be in the running for many Game of the Year awards come year-end. As original I.P. goes, few who give Dishonored a go should find themselves disappointed with the experience.
Final Game Guys grade: A-
(Bethesda supplied a copy of this game for review.)


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Report: Forward Khris Middleton will declare for NBA draft
Brent Zwerneman of the San Antonio Express-News reported Friday that an A&M official confirmed that A&M forward Khris Middleton will declare for the NBA draft.
Jeff Goodman of CBSSports.com was also told by a source that Middlton would be leaving A&M for the draft.
After the Big 12 tournament Middleton said he would discuss the process with his family on whether or not to enter the draft.
"Right now I'm staying," said Middleton following the tournament.
Middleton was the Aggies best NBA prospect and regarded as the teams best player throughout the past two seasons averaging 13.2 points in his junior season.
"If drafted, Middleton likely would be a second-round selection on June 28," Zwerneman writes.
Middleton's early exit now puts another big hole for coach Billy Kennedy to fill. Freshman guard Jamal Branch transferred to St. John's and junior guard Naji Hibbert intends to transfer as well.
With seniors Dash Harris and David Loubeau graduating the cupboard is suddenly very empty for Kennedy. Though, he will bring in guards J'Mychal Reese and Alex Caruso who are area recruits that will be forced to play immediately.


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Defining A Binge
Id like to say that I am proud of myself for not bingeing on food for a little over two months.
. . . Then it occurred to me that I still may be bingeing and not realizing it.
When I was training for 'bodybuilding' I was on a very strict calorie limit. I was denying myself not only calories, but whole food groups! Because I didn't truly and honestly want to be in a bodybuilding competition for me and me only, you could imagine how hard I rebelled against the whole diet process.
It's started out with a taste of peanut butter WHILE I was preparing something bland to eat. Then I took some more. I made the food I was supposed to make but I realized that I went a little bit over my peanut butter allotment for the day with the tastes.
And then, it was as if the skies opened up. I was standing in the doorway of white and sprinted past the grey into the black door. More peanut butter was consumed. Then I'd probably make toast with butter because I love bread and couldn't have any. I opened the same fridge that I opened literally minutes before but this time all of the food was labeled 'vacation' instead of 'restriction'. Id continue to eat. It was labeled this because I continued on until I was stuffed beyond belief . . . And then I woke up as if my mind was on a vacation for a whole 10min.
I'd sprint past the grey again, this time bringing guilt and shame along. I'd stay in white room for as long as I could trying to undo the damage by further restricting and telling myself how stupid I was for not having willpower. This would last for a bit, but I always went back.
These days I can say I honestly don't do that anymore. But what I have noticed is that I still binge but on a lesser scale. For instance when I come home for lunch I'm usually ravenous! And usually, I don't have a solid meal prepared. So as I'm trying to figure out what I want, I usually pick at so many different things while standing. Finally I make something and when I realize what I made is not something i wanted, I pick some more.
Previously I wasn't calling that bingeing, but you know what?
It is . . .
I may not be eating AS MUCH as I used to back in those days, but no matter if it's a rice cake or an ice cream cake, my mind is still on vacation.
I am choosing to eat unconsciously to help deal with the fact that I didn't spend the time to figure out what I want and actually prepare it and sit down with it.
I am choosing to eat unconciously because I don't feel like dealing with the stress I have from work no matter how big of little it may be. I would rather move right on to eating so that I don't have to feel the uncomfortable feeling of stress.
The funny thing is, if I had just not eaten while preparing and let myself feel the stress, by the time I actually ate, it would have passed and I would have actually enjoyed my meal and been satisfied.
I would have chosen to take care of myself and walk away feeling great about that decision and great about me!
But I Don't . . .
The good thing is, now when I do this, my binge vacations are not alone. My Inner Voice slips into my suitcase and just observes things as they happen.
Later, I ask what it saw and it tells me all of the above.
What defines a binge for you? What do you do to learn from your mistakes?
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0 Responses to Defining A Binge
Yep, you've got it. Binging is about the behavior and not the food or quantity of food. Binging is checking out and that can happen with grapes as easily as it can chocolate cake.
Great post! Eating mindlessly is so easy to do, especially if oyu are in a habit. I know when I get stressed about school or studying, I tend to just eat eat eat without thinking so I dont have to focus on doing schoolwork.
I can't add much more–Christie said it all!
Any time I "check out" while eating, that is a binge to me.
Aren't you overanalysing it to smithereens? If you eat intuitively – and that means LISTENING to the body's cues – eating 'unconsciously' wouldn't be an issue because you'd eat less of the 'conscious' food anyways. You'd feel that you'd already eaten The body doesn't care what you think of what you do, it feels nutrition coming in. And please don't call it a 'binge', you're doing your head in.
Hi M!! 😀
I totally understand and agree. I have a good handle on what intuitive eating all of its concepts however . . .
The problem is that I am STILL not practicing them as much as I should be. I tend to override my bodys signals lately, which leads me to unconscious eating.
To me, this is a sign of a problem that is deeper then food.
The magic of 'intuitive' anything is that you follow your gut and not your head. Ie – it is something you do NOT practice; intuition comes to you while you're busy with life. Letting go and that sort of thing.
I think it's sad people punish their bodies for the shit that's in their heads. Ah well . . . one day.
I disagree that it comes without practice. It's not like one day I could just wake up and do it easily. Especially after living on the other side for so long.
I agree that once you have enough trust and comfort with it, it truly becomes intuitive but at the stage I'm at right now, it's not coming easy and without a lot of focus and consciousness.
"Listening to the body's cues" is what got many people overweight in the first place, eh? 😉
I don't agree with that. I believe that our bodies know how to regulate and control what it wants and needs. It's our MINDS that override this and leads us to binge and over eat. Our inner wisdom is always trying to keep us healthy.
I agree with what you're saying. It's not easy to start overcoming these little bouts in our minds, but when you start seeing the silver lining in them and finding your own grace..they get easier. I still struggle at times of recongnising it all, but I don't punish myself anymore for it.
Keep on keepin' on
I don't consider ANYthing binges anymore, (sometimes overeating, sure) but the label of a "binge" represents too much negativity & subsequent self-torture… so it's like I'm judging my eating if I use it. So I don't.
Interesting POV. That word does bring negativity with it.
Thanks for stopping in!
If I'm eating without control, whether keep making trips back to the buffet table, running back and forth to the kitchen for scoops of peanut butter, or picking uncontrollably at something laying around, it might as well be a binge. It's not the amount of food that defines a binge, but the manner in which the food is consumed.
Can't place a reply to your reply, Val, so here goes. It comes down to how you define the mind: In a chemical sense you can't draw a clear line between body and mind. Hunger by itself is regulated by various hormones that signal the brain. Eating high energy food makes us feel good, as our body rewards us for indulging in this self-preserving activity. But the positive feeling of eating can also serve as a replacement for other positive feelings we lack – eating out of frustration, depression or stress.
In that sense, yes, the mind is misleading the body.
Yes and I believe that things like sugar, alcohol, artificial sweeteners really do wonders screwing around with your natural chemistry!
A healthy body wants to keep a healthy body. When our mind interferes and all those gross chemicals . . . We got a problem
My problem is getting my body to the point that it wants to keep it that way. And yes it's easy to say cut out this and that but at this point restriction is not a good thing to add to the mess I'm in and came from.


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Chieftain's Mortlach 22 followed by Samaroli Evolution 2013
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Chieftain's Mortlach 22 followed by Samaroli Evolution 2013
Benromach 10 last night. Lots of spices and smoke in this one - but without the peat. It's improved considerably since being opened a couple months ago.
Little progression this evening Michael Collins 10yr and now on deck is some Lag 12yr CS '11,damn is this stuff killer!
Enjoyed some Dalmore Cigar Malt Scotch at my local tobacconist today and paired it with a couple Perla del Mar's. Swear I picked up a strong sherry finish. Great choice and stood it's ground with the cigars.
Bought a bottle of Concannon Irish Whiskey and honestly it is quite enjoyable neat.
I'm enjoying some Powers John's Lane.
A very generous pour of Ardbeg 10 with breakfast. I don't know what was more enjoyable, the Ardbeg, the Avocado and crab omelet, or the waitresses in spandex! Well they were all enjoyable.
Safe to saw, I'll be back in the future.
A wonderful mixture of Band-aids, ashtrays, and water. And, couldn't be happier. Relishing every drop of this Lag 16...:yum:
The Balvenie 10 Founders' Reserve


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On a hot summer's day on a dirt track in front of Sunnyview Expo Center, BMX riders gather on top of the hill.
On that hill is a kid no more than seven or eight who is already one of the best riders around in his division.
Next to him a grown man who has riden since the mid 80s and continues to ride for the thrill. ...


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Competitive racing, beautiful Miami weather, great wind, free flowing Mount Gay Rum and one of the best sailing venues on the planet resulted in high stakes in the U.S. Etchells Class National Championship.
The winning team sailing
Thirty-seven talented teams from seven counties took part in the three day regatta hosted by Coral Reef Yacht Club and Mount Gay Rum. Competitors traveled from as far away as New Zealand and China to sail 8 races in challenging light to medium conditions with the goal of capturing this year's National Championship held in combination with the annual Etchells Coral Reef Cup.
The racing was tight going into the last day with several of the highly talented teams in contention. Jeff Siegal, USA 1296 with his long time tactician and past world champ, Jeff Madrigali, held a small lead over local ace Jeff Dever, USA 1090 and his team. Close behind were Snipe World Champ and Star sailor Tomas Hornos, USA 102 with Henry Frazer (Oriental, N.C.). Rounding out the top five were former Etchells world champ Dirk Kneulman sailing with New Zealander Anatole Masfen and Phillip Carlson (Sweden) as well as relative new-comer James McHugh (Beijing, China) sailing with world champ Andy Beadsworth (England) and Pete McCormack. This team was fresh off several weeks of training in Australia having sailed the Australian Nationals and 2012 World Championship down under.
The final day proved tricky with a shifty westerly breeze that is unusual for Biscayne Bay. The fleet was aggressive at the start of race seven and after two recalls including a 'Z' flag, the black flag was flown. Despite 12 over early penalties from the Z flag, the fleet still pushed the start and a number of the top boats were over. USA 1168, Peter Vessella and USA 102, Tomas Hornos were called over early and it cost them their shot at the top.
In the end, it was all about damage control on the last day and multiple time Jaguar Cup winner Jeff Siegal with his talented team of Jeff Madrigali, Wilhem Van Waay, and Sarah Callahan held it together on a shifty and tricky day to fend off the international teams of SUI 1403 James McHugh and NZL 1348 Dirk Kneulman and their teams to claim the 2012 National Championship. The top five boats finished within 15 points of each other.
The winning team....
The sailors were honored with a formal flag ceremony by CRYC's Officers in full uniform. At the trophy ceremony, Jim Etchells, a descendant of the boat designer was present, the swimming pool and outside bar were full and Jeff Seigal went around offering sips of rum from his trophy. PRO Bill Smoak and his CRYC race management team enjoyed the regatta as much as the sailors did. Jeff Nehms was the Regatta Chair with a lot of team support. It was another great Coral Reef Cup but this time, it crowned the National Champions.
Top 5 Boats
1. USA 1296 – Jeff Siegal New York Yacht Club
2. SUI 1403 - James McHugh – SNG
3. NZL 1348 – Dirk Kneulman – Royal Akarana Yacht Club
4. USA 1090- Jeff Dever – Coral Reef Yacht Club
5. USA 1375 – Argyle Campbell – San Diego Yacht Club
Not only was the racing exciting, there was a lot of local color at the event. Official photographer Marco Oquendo's press boat was full of bikini clad women who tried to distract the sailors resulting in some great shots. John Payne was taking photos on the water too. Each morning, the Swiss team delivered a big chocolate bar to the Race Committee on the Signal Boat 'Great Scott'. On land, the Mt. Gay Rum Gals, clad in short shorts distributed free rum drinks along with complete printed results.
The winning team celebrating
For complete results, http://www.etchellsfleet20.org/results/2012CRC_results.html


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The grey clouds are rolling
in and I can feel the wind begin to blow.
I want the rain to stop falling and the storm to blow away.
Im getting sick from being drenched to the bone with sorrow and pain seeping into my heart, hardening it into a stone.
If the stars came out from hiding behind the dark clouds and shine down again illuminating the dark earth.
Maybe if the stars come out so would the sun and the moon and distinguish the night from day and brighten up the dark sky.
When the sun comes out maybe the fog will disperse in fear and hide in the shadows and the birds will sing their song as they fly up ahead.
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Ellen DeGeneres and Portia De Rossi Put Home Up For Sale For $49 Million
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Ellen DeGeneres and Portia De Rossi have put their stunning mansion on the market and RadarOnline.com can you give you a sneak peek at what $49 million will buy you.
Ellen, 53, originally bought the home for $30 million, going on to scoop up surrounding properties to expand her palatial estate.
PHOTOS: Ellen DeGeneres & Portia De Rossi's Home For Sale – Take A Peek Inside
The home sits on 2.87 acres just off of Coldwater Canyon and Ellen has spent approximately $48 million on renovations.
According to Realtor.com, the estate comprises of a 9,500 square foot single-story residence and "two guesthouses totaling about 15,000 square feet, a three bedroom house, and every conceivable amenity and state-of the-art security."
PHOTOS: Take A peek Inside Heath Ledger's Old Home
The property also features a pool, media room - where the couple were married in 2008 - a meditation room and koi ponds.
The main house was originally built for actor Laurence Harvey and has also once been home to Joan Collins and "Will & Grace" co-creator Max Mutchnick.
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