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The pilot's inexperience is a contributing factor--and he should have been higher. The reason for a displaced threshold is because of the fence and the road being so close to the runway. But the SUV driver was absolutely careless! Less than one second made the difference between no injuries and a prop chewing through the SUV and its occupants. There should be no shame, however, in a pilot performing a go-around. Embarrassing, perhaps, but in the interest of safety there is no shame in admitting to oneself that you've made a bad approach and need to go around for another. I'd rather be embarrassed and catch some flak from my buddies watching on the ground than be dead or injured or watching someone else die because I didn't make the choice to abandon the approach. And as far as whether or not the PIC had the right of way? As my flight instructor told me over thirty years ago: "You may have the right of way, but you could be DEAD right." I just about ran through a very expensive Porsche at Addison when taxiing to the hangar. He came barreling out from behind a hangar onto the taxiway directly in front of me and to avoid him I had to brake hard. He was a pilot, but he was not very safety-minded. Again--I had the right of way but it didn't matter. You have to watch for the other guy and assume that everyone out there is trying to kill you.
Well said. There is enough blame here to go around. Same thing can happen driving. Right of way may be one thing, but after DEAD RIGHT, there is no argument!!
Yep. More than once I have avoided being t-boned by someone running a red light by stopping for my own green. Green means proceed if it's safe.
Hi Jim,
A few years ago, like a hundred or so I was landing with a flight of 3 at Reinbeck New York. I had a new C 177 with 4 sob and 0 luggage. My turn came and I followed the plane in front of me all the way to what seemed like the fence when some clown brought out the X's for the runway closing it. A green pilot, I fire-walled everything and waited as the 140 hoarse engine struggled for the pine tree tops. Needless to say it was a little sluggish so close to gross. We landed at a close by aerodrome and bussed back to Reinbeck. A trip to the ops shack revealed the reason for closing the runway was because there was no more parking available. While a go around is not a source of embarrassment picking pine cones out of the lg is or should be. 140 hp tin doesn't climb out like a fighter. I should have put it down but I didn't know why he closed the runway. " I learned about flying from that" Later I learned some more over a few beers with compatriots. I practiced some maneuvers in thet airplane and 6 months later Cessna repowered the 177 with more engine.
"DSPLCD THLD MKGS YELLOW" 400ft displaced threshold RWY17
One of the first lessons in flying or landing....Never land on the displaced threshold. It is displaced for a reason.
Such as a road at the end of the runway where a tall car or truck may cross.
This will turn into an excellent training video on how to stabilize an approach and NOT land on a displaced threshold.
If you're checking Google Earth for the displaced threshold, use the Timeline feature and move to the latest aerial photo - 5 April this year. The displaced threshold is gone.
In all fairness, while he was low had the SUV not driven in front of him he could have landed beyond the displaced threshold. That collision immediately threw his nose down. Landing normally he's have flared and floated a bit in all likelihood but your point is well taken.
IO never encountered a displaced threshold until well in excess of 200 hours. I was never, ever instructed in the procedure. But then I never landed on painted lines either. The pilot probably had about 10 hours. Peal back you memory to the day you had your shirt tail cut off if you can remember that far back
That was one of the things I learned in ground school long before I soloed. Airport markings and what they mean. I had to demonstrate understanding before my instructor would sign off for me to solo let alone go cross country. I'm sorry but he should have know.
1. Your instructor was a bozo if he signed you off for your practical.
2. How did you pass your knowledge test.
3. The pilot likely had 40-50 hours not 10.
Why are you being so hard on this kid? You've never done anything in an airplane that might have been ill advised or a result of port judgment? Last time I checked, I never saw the name "Grelinger" on the roster of present or former Blue Angels pilots... Ignorant and abusive comments like yours presuppose poor training and poor instruction - of which you lack knowledge or proof. Please see my post above. We should be encouraging this young pilot not verbally abusing him or questioning his judgment or intelligence. You sir, unfortunately, evidence a lack of both.
Hear!Hear! Like I said earlier, you can't blame this man. Low maybe, but he would have landed on soild ground. A little higher and he would have missed the SUV, but it shouldn't have been there anyway, for that very reason. Bad wreck, but like a car crash or anything else. Dust yourself off and saddle back up and go.
When did displaced threshold come into existence, if you know?
Certainly decades before this student pilot took to the skies.
I asked you when. It may exonerate my CFI.
That is my home airport, and my hangar is on the east side of the field so I cross that road every time to get to my hangar. It is marked for cars and trucks to STOP for landing aircraft. No matter how high or low the plane is, the pilot has the right of way when landing, not the ground traffic. Driver of the SUV FAILED to yield right of way.
The article said there were no traffic signs only the "STOP" in paint on the pavement. Is that the true case? keep in mind this is a general news release not a PIREP or an industry report. There is a lot of guessing going on over the pilot's experience, etc. Sounds like you have some first hand knowledge that might end to cat calls of bozo etc.
STOP is clearly painted on the pavement at 52F, because if you have vertical signposts, they also become hazards to navigation.
We could argue that point but lets wait for another day :-). There's enough stuff flying at the wall now. But thanks for clarifying the point. How many times has an airplane tripped on that fence, I wonder.
What caused two vehicles to collide? The airplane could have just as easily had a power failure or wind shear and ended up in the same place even though he had started out much highe.
The car was not supposed to be there when airplanes are landing. That is why there is "STOP" painted on the ground just like they do on streets.
Stop mean stop and you can proceed when the way is clear.
The way was not clear.
Those people frequent that airport often and eat at the restaurant. At leas that is what they said in the news video.
They were negligent and pulled out in front of an approaching plane. They would have seen it IF they had stopped and LOOKED.
There is not a single cause for the collision. The car was improperly crossing in front of the airplane, and the airplane was too low.
If the airplane had an engine failure or a windsheer incident, the pilot could take comfort in that fact that being so low was not all his fault. However, based on what appeared to happen, he has no such comfort. Being low was likely all his fault.
I agree with you that he was too low. But that is why they have clear areas etc.
While that was not possible here it is possible to keep cars out of the way for those few moments out of each hour that there is crossing traffic.
These people knew the airport and were there "frequently" by their own admission.
You can't pull up to a stop sign and stop then just pull out infront of crossing traffic.
The reason for stopping is to then look for crossing traffic before continuing.
And THAT is what should have happened and didn't.
Had they stopped and then looked and waited,there would have been no collision unless it was with the ground.
The car put itself in a dangerous position by not looking and stopping.
It is an airport and it is normal, reasonable, and EXPECTED to see airplanes coming in to land from that general area.
Flaps down, slowing over the fence, zero visibility over the nose, and not much better periphial; 1st solo...fixated on landing THE FIRST TIME. The student no doubt knew the road was there (and I would be the CFI talked him thru that..) but give the pilot some slack....FIRST TIME SOLO. I say the knuckle head in the car just went down the road like it was just another road, ignoring the AIRCRAFT APPROACHING sign, which I am sure was there! Fault assigned to the cage driver!!
Let the student pilot alone.....
Wrong. This was not his first solo. It was his first solo x-country. Big difference.
ok...technicality. 1st time strange airport...pucker factor about equal. During my 1st cross country, the 3rd airport I landed downwind (got confused ) and got reamed out by a corporate driver bigtime. Almost quit right there. Student pilots have not had the time to develop the magnified egoes that come with lots of flight time, and many if not most of them can be discouraged pretty easily. This fellow had the dream once, it'll resurface if everyone just leaves lets nature take its course. If the dream was superficial, then the other guy is right...he wasn't meant to fly.
Wasn't strange airport. Was his home airport. If you haven't been there, how can you know anything about what's proper procedure for landing there?
It's a downslope to the runway, and the runway is 30 feet from the road.
It's painted on the road to STOP, and the SUV did not.
If this had been at a controlled airfield, it would have been an incursion of the SUV into the runway protected area.
Pilots are killed through technicalities.
And no, this was his home airport. He was returning from his x-country.
you can have the last word. thanks. (car was wrong; pilot was victim)
Agreed that the car was wrong. However the pilot was not blameless. A close look at that video in slow motion indicates he missed the fence by 2-3 feet. At that distance, NOT hitting the fence is not skill, just dumb luck.
Come on everyone,help a fellow pilot out here! He needs to get back in the saddle & just do it!!
Dumb driver! They prob don't look around when they stop at a 4 way crossing too.
Unless they knew there was a problem with AC landing who would have thought to look? Get real.
That road (Kelly Dr) is also specifically for access to the airport's hangars and facilities, so the driver was probably aware of the airport and was likely driving to part of the airport. http://goo.gl/maps/OxZn3
Who would have thought to read signs and look around you when you're driving? Every RESPONSIBLE driver on the planet.
For what it's worth, according to the article, there is no signage if I read it right; it is marked on the road like a crosswalk or such as that.
When I last drove out there, minimal at best, and Google Earth can't show the runway conditions, but the runway markings are not the highlight of the airport. This is a pretty busy GA airport, look at the size of the runway and then count the number of hangars. Used to be a pretty good collection of retired, one way or the other, Braniff folks here.
But the road crosses at the end of a runway onto the airports property; that should have been a clue...lol
People need more than a clue. Auto driving is becoming a thoughtless process. Hell, stop signs mean stop not look around. Years ago my mom was stopped and the cop asked her why she didn't stop at the stop sign, she told him she didn't need to stop, her car had "fluid drive". She thought she had to stop to down shift and her car had a new automatic transmission. My office manager was stopped and when asked if she knew why there was a line down the middle of the road her answer was simply "why, to divide it in half"
And your statement is exactly why the SUV should have stopped: "marked on the road like a crosswalk".... What if it WERE a crosswalk and the SUV drove over a family crossing the street. We wouldn't even be asking whether the SUV driver had any fault in that case. That's why we have markings on the street. Sadly, bentwing60 is right in a comment below. Too many people really don't pay enough attention when driving.
We can just be glad the SUV occupants didn't end up eating the prop and the pilot got down in one piece.
Do you stop at an intersection and then proceed with out looking for traffic?
So if the airport doesn't own that road which runs so close to the approach end of the runway, who does? Sounds like that person/entity could be subject to a lawsuit here in the near future.
After watching the video, I can't believe the driver didn't see the aircraft coming. It HAD to have been in his field of vision, even while looking straight ahead. Regardless, I see the same thing at railroad tracks when a train is coming. People will pull right out in front of it to try and save a little time. Sadly, what will more than likely happen here is the airport will now become a "problem" that someone locally feels that they need to fix.
I'm sad that the pilot decided to hang it up after this incident, but I can understand. My viewpoint is someone different as I've been in and out of airplanes since the age of 2 and I don't have a family to think about. Things happen though.
I agree with you. The driver had the aircraft in the field of vision for a long time before the impact, they should have enough time to stop, but they didn't. From what I can see from the video, the driver didn't stop until the moment that the gear hit the SUV.
Stick With it Mr Davis......
Probably needs to be some upright signage on the road. Could have been missed just marked on the road or as at an RR crossing, they just tried to beat the plane or weren't paying attention. Lot's of Airports have "Yield to low flying Aircraft" signage. Haven't been there in a long time but there used to be one at KABQ for the approach on 17. That was an artery to I 25 and carried all that traffic off the Air Base as well. Seems to me those signs had caution lights on then that were tower activated when that runway was in use. Sad that with so little time left that he threw it all aside but, different strokes for different folks.
I think that the sign's still there with the lights (it was in 2010), but since they closed that RWY, I wouldn't be surprised if they took it down. I didn't know that the tower controlled them, but I guess that I never gave it much thought. I just checked Google Earth, and the displaced threshold for 17 is almost 900'.
Way too low on approach. Even if he hadn't quit flying he sure needs remedial training on how to fly a proper approach. No flaps too.
He could have been showing off, or trying to, for the camera, knowing he was being taped.lol. SUV was just bad lucky that it was the gear that hit them and not the prop.
He might have did the Threshold, displaced or not; Although low, he would have probably made it ok had the SUV not been there
Yep! I agree! I'm still amazed at how close the folks in the SUV came to being hit by the propeller chopping its way through that vehicle.
>I agree with Elton!! Don't stop flying William.<
He has every right and reason to stop flying, from his viewpoint as a father and husband who has discovered that any mistake of his own or of someone else may kill him, and that there is more risk of that than he is willing to take.
According to every statistic I've read and Orville assured me of personally, he shouldn't walk across a street and certainly not drive an automobile if risk is the question. He just had his accident.
most places have "low flying aircraft" signs.....I wonder if there is one at the airport
Watching the video it is very clear to see that this not the pilot's fault in my opinion...just a dumb place to have an access road and an even dumber place to have unaware drivers.
I was just going to post this (by using WFAA link http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/denton/Caught-on-Tape-Roanoake-177177461.htm).
First comment: SUV driver failed to stop, they are at fault.
Second comment: I suspect the pilot also suffered from tunnel vision and failed to notice the ground movement which he could have avoided.
Just glad no-one was hurt... I can just imagine how SUV driver's insurance reacted: "What? A plane landed on your car? Right..."
If he was close enough the driver would not have been visible to the pilot as he was approaching from the passenger side of the a/c so I'm not sure tunnel vision applies. I'm sure if the vehicle had been approaching from the left he's have seen it easily.
Unless that video was a mirror image or it happened in England, the gear hit the driver side.
Yes, the car was approaching from the passenger side of the aircraft.
pilot was on first solo as well.......
The following is on the info about this airport:
A58-17 Road 30 ft from end of runway.
I would think that the pilot has the greatest duty to avoid being too low over that road, since it is in the airport's info. The pilot should have pulled up to avoid the road, and then landed, or abort the landing and go around to try it again.
Are you a pilot? If so, would your instructor ever give you the advice of pulling up to avoid the road? Going around, yes. But pulling up just before the flare? Never!
Pulling up on short final is a good way to stall, crash and burn, and cause injuries to anybody on the ground.
First XC solo Toby, not his first solo rodeo.
oh crap, thanks BW
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I agree, the student pilot was probably occupied enough with just trying to maintain airspeed and slope and follow his training, and didn't have the experience to be able to respond to unusual conditions.
Though I wonder about whether the CFI (who I assume had a hand radio and was watching nearby) could potentially have noticed the car and alerted him to go around.
I agree with Elton!! Don't stop flying William. These are the situations that will make you an even BETTER pilot. They do happen, and I can guarantee you the lessons learned from this incident will always be in the back of your mind on every landing. This will make you a safer and better pilot. As you are an a "newly minted" pilot without much experience it is understandable that you would want to quit. As you fly more and become more confident, you will be able to relegate this incident to your mental file system. Get your butt back on that horse and back in the air!!! We need safety conscious pilots like yourself!!
You nailed it!
it was the students fault as there was a displaced thresh hold!
That makes it the CFI's fault then, doesn't it.
Mark, ordinarily you would be right, but I believe he was solo. Had a CFI been on board, he probably would have told to go around to commence with. I figure after he gets over all this, he'll go back in the air but we'll probably never hear about that.
I didn't mean fault in the legal sense. I'm still very aware of how much my CFI never taught me those many moons ago. I was responding to the comment from Kyle about displaced threshold. I never encountered a displaced threshold until well after 200 hours, but by then I had learned that it wasn't necessary to land on painted lines. Most of my instruction as I suspect yours came from the school of hard knocks, many hours of hanger flying, and additionally Flying Magazine's 'I learned About Flying From That" .
I am a little unclear from reading the article whether this was his first time around the pattern or if he was returning from a solo cross country. I'm assuming it was his first time alone in the pattern, but then I was wrong once before.
Sounds like this isn't the first incident at that airport with short landings. Fe3nce and auto encounters sound to be the norm. Grab the 3 wire not the one wire lest you trip on your landing gear.
Not a student pilot. It was his first solo XC after getting his ticket. But I do agree that he should've been higher due to the displaced threshold.
No, That is not what caused two vehicles to collide. The airplane could have just as easily had a power failure or wind shear and ended up in the same place even though he had started out much highe.
The car was not supposed to be there when airplanes are landing. That is why there is "STOP" painted on the ground just like they do on streets.
Stop mean stop and you can proceed when the way is clear.
The way was not clear.
Those people frequent that airport often and eat at the restaurant. At leas that is what they said in the news video.
They were negligent and pulled out in front of an approaching plane. They would have seen it IF they had stopped and LOOKED.
displaced threshold; student pilot don't care...lol
How about just closing the road....
How did the Kings teach us to remember the answer to the VASI question on the written exam:
"White Over White, You'll Fly All Night"
"Red Over White, You're All Right"
"Red Over Red, You're DEAD!"
As an oft quoted aviation prodigy said:
"…the best safety device in any aircraft is a well-trained pilot"
...i heard it was the Mark 7 eyeball
Don't fly much but I did fly a couple hrs. back in March....following the VASI is easy; if there is one not available or it is inop. is when it becomes a little tricky...Thinking back I can relate to him being a little low if the VASI was inop. because basically you are visually judging everything by sight....Over on Airnav it says one end has 4.5 slope and while the opposite end is 5.5...Neither end is standard. If the VASI was inop. like the one I encountered back in march you may be a little low or a little high.
Just needed to add a little power on approach.
What's with all the fuss about a displaced threshold? I've seen numerous displaced thresholds with no road at the end of the runway or any nearby obstructions. Displaced thresholds can exist for a variety of reasons e.g. structural integrity, noise abatement reason, bad asphalt, etc. I occasionally practice low approaches with the objective of "hitting" exactly on the numbers without feeling the wheels touch the ground. I find such maneuvering helps perfect the man – machine interface. Could he or should he have approached at a higher altitude? Sure; but it is within reason that this student pilot did a low approach to avoid "bouncing" on his landing, something we all hate to experience. However, nothing in the video substantiates that he would have touched down short of the displaced threshold. As a student I can also understand this student focusing on the numbers and not noticing the car. If this is the case I unfortunately have to ask if he was really prepared to undertake this solo. What is the instructor's culpability in this case? In any case, why is there not a fence between the roadway and the runway? I find the lack of separation outrageous! Bottom line I think the car's driver was acting like an idiot. Who the heck would not be driving slow and checking for landing aircraft in a local such as this, stop sign or not? Stupid, stupid, stupid driver!!!
Moreover, I caught the word "wife" in the pilot's explanation for quitting. I cannot tell you how many of my friends and associates wish they had a Harley or could fly except their wife will not "let" them engage in such activities. I am personally blessed with a wife that loves flying [including single engine at night] and rides her own "bike" [including splitting lanes on LA's freeways] and we are "seniors". All I can say is that I encourage all men to be men and live your dreams. I invite all our wonderful women to support us and moreover join in with us as we explore the many adventures that are available with a little training and proper planning. I hope he reconsiders his decision.
Couldn't decide who to respond to so I'll start at the top. For those who are quick to impale the other party here, the runway threshold is displaced on both ends, and clearly though poorly marked. I believe that it said somewhere that this was a XC solo, and not his first. Regardless, the flight instructor who signed him off at that airport should have briefed the pilot on the displaced thresholds because they are all about the vehicle traffic. I think displaced thresholds fall under airport markings and are on the private written. I won't comment on his approach since the FAA would say, if he hadn't been there, it wouldn't have happened. As a Latin lawyer would say, res ipsa loquitur, "The thing speaks for itself". He descended into the vehicle. I have landed there in aircraft varying from a C-150 to a Navajo 350CR and if you intend to use the runway you ain't supposed to use, you had best be looking for vehicle traffic. On either end! The driver was going to the airport restaurant so he must have known it was there! It was an airport restaurant, so there must be an airport around here somewhere. Anybody dumb enough to drive a new Volvo SUV ain't paying for it with food stamps. He might not be that dumb, but not very observant on occasion. Pretty amazed that the SUV driver still had a jaw to speak with, and all parties walked away. Somebody's insurance will pay for this but unfortunately, it looks like another opportunity for the lawyers.
But it was a Volvo, so it was safe, right!
Well, everybody did walk away.lol
The person driving the SUV was an idiot. Crossing the end of the runway without stopping and looking for approaching aircraft. Unbelievable!
Regardless weather the SUV was there or not, this was not a safe approach in my opinion. It seems he came in flaps up and way too low. A 400' displaced threshold with the road 30' from there puts the SUV 430' from the end of a runway with a 4.5° glide slope. He should have been ~35' over top of that road instead of 6'. Difficult to place blame on the SUV for that one.
You are right. It was a not a good approach. I bet that is why they don't want cars there when airplanes are landing.
We all make mistakes. It is not often that 2 people make a mistake at the same time in the same place. The Pilot was landing too short on the runway. It appears he would have landed on the displaced threshold, and the car Driver was not obeying the STOP markings on the roadway.
But for the Pilot to quit flying is like the Driver of a car involved in an accident to quit driving. I have been the Pilot on 3 emergency landing, and 2 times have had runway incursion incidents while on landing. I never had any thought of quitting. I am now retired as a Commercial Pilot with a 32+ year career. Back in May of 2000 one of my daughters (16yo driving only 3 weeks), was involved in a double fatality head-on car crash when her car suffered a brake system failure. She was in the hospital for 12 weeks and still has effects from her 19 broken bones. But, she NEVER considered to quit driving.
I suggest the Pilot take a week off and then get back in the cockpit and move on with his Pilot License Training. We now live in the South Pacific and even today I am an active Aviation Enthusiast.
One thing I've learned since I was a young man: never, never cross the front end of trucks, ships or planes! They simply do not stop as quickly as you think...
That SUV driver is a careless driver, the poor student flyer had a lot of more things to do than just hitting the brakes.
It looked as though the prop stopped prior to impact with the car. In any event, a shitty approach always leads to a less than desirable landing.....go around !
Low as he was , I still think he would have made the runway(DPC) if the SUV hadn't been there, BUT, if it hadn't been, us and 81 others here wouldn't have anything to talk about.lol
Look... we've ALL done some stupid sh*t while flying. From day one, aeronautical decision making is drilled into our heads. I am very sad to hear that he is giving up flying because of this but on my second flight with my instructor, we almost had a mid-air. After that flight, even I QUIT!
Once an instructor releases a student to fly solo, there is still an enourmous amount of risk involved. This student got his PP slapped and in my opinion, he would now make even a BETTER pilot. Don't quit Mr. Davis. You've just started.
Looking at the video, reading the airport info in A/FD and studying the satellite image of the airport/runway, it seems clear that the PILOT (and by implication his instructor since he was a student) is at fault here. At the altitude he was flying when he hit the SUV, there was no way he was going to reach the displaced threshold for touchdown. The markings seem evident to me, and this likely why the displaced threshold is in effect. Furthermore, assuming this was his home airport, he should have been well-aware of this fact and/or briefed by his instructor prior to his solo or XC endorsements. Drivers are not conditioned to look in the air for hazards, though pilots are responsible to see and avoid objects on the ground as well as the air. That said, the airport probably needs to install a stop sign, better roadway markings and signs use caution for approaching air traffic.
On another note, I agree with other posts here that he should not stop flying. Take this as a learning experience and realize that statistically it is still safer than driving. If you're concerned about your young daughter and wife, you should stop driving too...
unfortunate that he wants to give it up. but yea i can see how on your first solo having this happen would make you wanna quite. maybe down the road he'll have a change of heart and start back up.
Wow... I was there leading up to the weekend, but never went back. There is a cafe there called Brian's Blue Hangar. Great food and Brian takes care of my NASCAR crew during the week until our cook arrives on Saturday and Sunday. In fact, my little avatar photo to the right is one my trailers at TMS.
To the point now. Yes it is a private airport and yes, the road has obvious yellow paint on it that says to stop. Even the dashed lines you see on the taxiway are painted at the stops on this crossroad. While no professional looking sign is posted, there is a marquee sign that reads, "Northwest Regional Airport - RUNWAY" very plainly. I had one of my crew members with me on Thursday getting lunch for everyone when I witnessed a similar incident in which no contact was made. The first thing I said was, "Dumb son of bitch is crossing the runway for all intents and purposes. Asshole should have looked. I stop and look every time!"
Anyone travelling down the road that leads to Northwest Regional is either a construction vehicle (work being done on the west side - they dont cross under the glideslope) or someone familiar with the airport. This was just complete and total lack of attention on the part of the SUV and Skyhawk drivers.
What NASCAR crew have you got?
I supply ice for Texas Motor Speedway. We've been doing it since the track opened about 14 years ago. To my knowledge, we are the only original vendor left from that inaugural year.
I was down there for the weekend about 5 years ago for the Saturday and Sunday races but I watched all 3 this past weekend from my recliner.lol
This was actually the pilots first Cross Country solo. He as booked about 20 hrs. The SUV was on way to restaurant on the field, definitely should have been more observant of airport traffic.
poor guy quit flying and it wasn't even his fault.
Well, a lot of us would argue that. Plenty of blame to go around.
Bad situation. Glad no one seriously injured. Both to blame but it would have been far easier for the jeep to avoid than Cessna descending on final. I would say that Jeep had last clear chance to avoid. Low time pilots make mistakes and therefore become better pilots. God knows i made plenty and ridicule was not necessary to learn the lesson. Cars and planes do not mix. Period. I encourage Mr. Davis to step up his training, hold his head high and continue flying. Remember all pilots have made and continue to make mistakes.
Two afterthoughts: 1. if this was really Mr. Davis´ first solo flight, perhaps his instructor was not aware that his student needed a few more hours training. 2. It amazes me that after a first solo flight, one can expect to receive a pilot´s license within one month later. There is so much to learn still that unless one could have daily instruction - and even then - the time lapse seems rather short. (Or perhaps my generation, 60 something years ago, was slower on the uptake than today´s prodigies. ;-] )
He was returning from his first cross country solo. It wasn't his first solo flight
just more gadgets in the plane to fly the plane for us....less skill needed
If you havent flown at this airport and dont know the true circumstances...
I have flown (regularly) at this airport and I agree that the plane was low. I also must say that the car crossed in front of an approaching plane (there are markings warning not to do so)
Both operators are at fault.
I would be much harsher on a more expeirienced pilot (even 50 hrs). The vehicle was easily visible from the time the pilot made his base to final (even 0 flaps) but I have seen many vehicles at this point that sat there "waiting" for me, only to have them proceed accross the road as I was about 500 feet from the end of the runway.
Plain and simple...Both are at fault and instead of being a trajic accident it should now be a learning experience.
As additional note (some of you mentioned change in plane attitude just before impact), approach from either end of this airport is notorious for tricky crosswinds and some turbulence almost all the time. It usually isnt severe, but can be nerve racking for new pilots, and it us usually encountered right about the end of the runway if you are at the proper slope. As for the VASI, the lights are really hard to see. I dont think I ever have noticed them working at this airport except for at night. They are there, but they dont seem to jump out and scream look at me like they do at a lot of other airports.
How did the Kings teach us to remember the answer to the VASI question on the written exam:
"White Over White, You'll Fly All Night"
"Red Over White, You're All Right"
"Red Over Red, You're DEAD!"
As an oft quoted aviation prodigy said:
"…the best safety device in any aircraft is a well-trained pilot"
The pilot is the only safety device. The rest of the stuff is there to help and support him/her.
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Thanks. Missed that earlier.
It was an unfortunate incident. Fault lies with the person who could have avoided the collision - both are at fault. I have noticed that a lot of GA pilots aim at brick one of the runway. I wish more CFIs would have their students aim 500 feet to 1000 feet, or more, down the runway. You can still practice short field and spot landing techniques by using the numbers or other markings as a simulated threshold to prepare for the very rare actual short field. I just think that pilots of single engine GA planes need to plan and fly their patterns so that they are always in a position to make the field if the engine quits. This pilot was too low to make it had he lost power. If this pilot was on a solo cross country, then he has just finished A LOT of pattern work instruction. I think his instructor, and his instructors instructor, can share in the blame for his poor technique. As for the car driver, who knows! Someone else here said it best - that driving has become a mindless and thoughtless task. There are a lot of car drivers that need some serious instruction.
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't TNCM have a busy roadway at the end of it's runway? Trucks ( maybe cars too) are not allowed to cross when a plane is on final. Runway 10 also has a displacement threshold, but clipping vehicles is still a possibility. Sure the pilot should/could have performed a go around by the driver was not very smart to see a low approaching plane and still want to cross in front.
yes toncontin dose but they also have traffic signals.....Gibraltor has a major highway that runs right through the middle.
That's wrong, at TNCM nothing prohibits vehicular or pedestrian traffic along the Maho beach Rd. when aircraft are landing. Staying on the VASI will keep you from clipping anything, but there is showboating with people sometimes dragging it in. That just falls on the pilot, not area design.
We have a similar arrangement at our airfield, although the road has a row of tall trees on the rwy side, so that gives us a minimum approach height. The only downside it that it's a short field so you have to be pretty snappy once you're past the tree line.
Might there have been a cell phone in the left hand of the Driver? Maybe even in the pilots hand too. Imagine if that turns out be true?
He had his wife in there with him so I've speculated they may have been having a conversation and if he was looking at her instead of the approach path then there you go.
I agree with those who have opined that both the Cessna and the SUV driver are at fault here. Interesting variation on the old flight training lesson about how aviation accidents are typically the result of a chain of events (presumably, a series of two or more mistakes or bad decisions made by the pilot). We were taught to recognize the chain, break it, and thus avoid an accident. In this case, neither party realized that they were part of a "chain" that either of them could have broken.
Things happen quickly at the speed of life. A bit of bad fortune comes to play as well. Lady chance put the car in those 10 feet at a particularly bad time for a mistake in landing approaches. I have been guilty of a no flaps approach in 150s and 172s particularly with cross winds. Add in that the airport management and the roadway owners have not been communicating about some simple signage and the recipe is complete. I have made the same argument in court over signage and won every point against the expert witness of the Md. State Police. Some regulations have a good reason. Two properly installed properly painted signs would take the guesswork out of the equation. The car drivers as in this case would not be able to rely on the confusion defense.
Sign? What sign? You expect me to read faded road paint? Legally, I think the Volvo driver will end up paying all damages in the end
@ R. Mark Sampson:
A point that no one else has made, unless I missed it. Statistics are on the side of the pilot in the aircraft, green or seasoned. You are infinitely more likely to be involved in an accident with a motor vehicle than an airplane.Actually, you are more likely to be hit by a motor vehicle as a pedestrian.
Do yourself a favor and check your insurance policies. You may find that you are UNINSURED unless you are on a scheduled airline, what ever that might mean. I was admonished many years ago by my company who provided life insurance that, I was NOT covered by my life insurance in the event that I was flying or flying in an unscheduled. The question even came up for a flight with World Airways, a then unscheduled charter carrier for a tour flight with AOPA to Jamaica. The aircraft was an L-10ll so a heavy, but a unscheduled airline, nevertheless. Include your agent and broker in any of the discussions you have with an attorney. The only opinion that counts is the underwriter for the insurance carrier and you can't reach out to him/her. I think an attachment can be added to existing policies for a price, of course Hope I was helpful to you. Maybe the rules have changed. Good luck.
I earned my PPL a few days before this incident. Not giving up that hard won piece of paper -- but after seeing the video I will certainly dust off my life insurance poliy to ensure my wife and kids can survive w/o me if I ever take on a Volvo with my Cessna. My vote is to buy life insurance and stay in the cockpit.
Just remember, a "self-grounded student pilot" could have just have well been the driver of the SUV and gotten an earful of landing gear - i.e. there is also risk when you are on the ground. Flying is certainly a risk, but so is just about everything else in this world. It is all about managing that risk. I'm a firm believe that every accident has at least 6 factors that contributed to the accident. Lawyers try to assign blame for those factors. As Pilots, we need to focus on all of the factors that contribute to an accident equally so we can avoid at least one of them and live to fly another day...
That driver must have had the nosewheel miss him by about 6 inches. One very stupid and very lucky man.
Can all non-pilots please refrain from commenting on this post, please. Almost every comment is of irrational thought and ignorant. Don't comment on something you no nothing about.
There are thousands of roads crossing near the end of runways across our nation (no telling how many around the world). The idea that cars should stop for landing aircraft on all of these roads is simply absurd. The approach appears to be designed for ample altitude crossing the road (4.5 degree VASI and displace threshold). Yes this is pilot error. No, this is not the driver's fault. All the posturing of what if engine failure etc. can only rationally conclude there is no place for runways anywhere near civilization. Aviators who do not accept it is our responsibilities to exercise all do care to ensure our activities do not endanger those on the ground hurt all of us.
Further the notion something must be changed because of this accident fails to accept that nothing short of destroying all the airplanes will ensure no future aviation accident. Stuff happens and yes sometimes really, really bad stuff happens and people die. But you know what everyone dies. It's not enough to make rules that delay death; rules must also honor the life(s) that continue. Aviators take note; if you keep up the SUV driver is at fault argument it is we who will lose the freedom of experiencing something we frequently tell others we live for.
William, don't give up! People run stop signs all the time. If you were in an accident on the way home from work, hit by a driver not paying attention to a stop sign or traffic signal, would you quit driving? Of course not! Reports say you are scheduled for your check ride soon. You clearly have a passion for aviation and we need young men and women like you to keep our beloved sport alive. So here's the deal. Stick with it - take your check ride - and I will reimburse you the cost of gas and rental for your next cross country. During my first cross country in 1988 I managed to get lost out near Albany, NY and was so frightened and discouraged that I told the owner of the FBO, the late Don Wildowsky, that I was "all done". He made the same offer - and today I am an instrument rated pilot with a Cirrus and a J-3 Cub, with over 1500 hours, and active in Angel Flight, and Pilots n Paws. Flying has been a wondrous and beautiful release, business tool and hobby. I urge you to think it over. My email is firstname.lastname@example.com - my name is Martin Weiss and I live in Woodstock, CT. Think of the joy and experiences you will bring to your child and family once you get your ticket. Think of the pride on your child's face when he/she says, "My Daddy is a PILOT!" And think of the great achievement that is so close to being fulfilled and the regret you will live with if you do not move forward. Don Wildowsky didn't give up on me and more importantly he didn't let me give up on myself. We pilots (and you are one of us - student or fully certificated) stick together. It is a bond that flies with us and makes us special. I urge you to take me up on my offer!
I noticed no last minute change in the front wheels of the car. Surely with the plane so close in the final few moments, there should have been some flinch or jerk reaction by the driver to turn the stearing wheel. The car windows were probably closed so no sounds were heard. My reading is that the driver made this trip often enough to be conditioned that planes land infrequently. This would explain the lack of caution and not stopping. Also this road is probably not uused much by cars adding to the lack of alertness. To me this is a probable explanation for the car driver's oblivousness. Put an attention consuming cell phone in his or her left hand to block the peripheral view out the left window and you get a car that didn't show any reaction even as it virtually flies right through the car. AND, the car kept going straight for a moment or two after the contact. A driver in a deep cell phone conversation with his vision blocked, explains the car's motion, my opinion.
yah know if you watch the video several times it almost looks like the suv interupted the airflow of the wings or the pilot may have mistakenly pulled the power back while meaning to push it forward in attempt to go-around at the last minute....the pitch of the airplane changes right before impact.
Maybe starting a flare?
the nose went down not up and that seems a little high to start a flare in a 172 unless you either want to bounce or landing pretty firm....but maybe
Well, good or bad, he'd have probably landed OK if the SUV had not been there
My Stearman instructor wanted me to start the flare way higher than I was comfortable with, but it sure worked for him.
Looks like maybe an "on the numbers" attempt? But the numbers are 400' down the runway. Maybe a "Hmmm. I'm getting a little slow here, a little nose-down should fix that...". Too many maybes. Bottom line -- a poorly executed approach that left him with no options when it counted, and failure to keep aware of the situation on the ground.
Would be interesting to know if the SUV came from the North or South before the turn onto Kelly Drive.
This whole thing is a kind of lose-lose situations. It has happened before and will quite likely happen again. One example of this, in 2004 a Peninsula Airlines Grumman Goose at Unalaska, Alaska, was heavily damaged hitting an unexpected truck.
It looks like the pilot was landing with the flaps up, the resulting nose-high attitude would no doubt obstruct his view, and create a more dramatic sink rate when the power was reduced for landing.
Sure, the aircraft was low but stop means stop. That can not be argued against.
Well, there are 165 comments here, this to be 166. Everuone has different thoughts. IMHO, the bottom line is that it was an unfortunate accident. As with most accidents, there are contributing factors. The SUV did not stop and the plane was a tad low. As with any accident, pilot is traumatized. SUV folks probably are too. Hopefully he will shake it off and get back up. There aren't many of us that haven't had something happen to us somewhere along the line that we'd just as soon forget. Just as a note, many have said this was his first solo. It was not. He was returning from his FIRST CROSS COUNTRY SOLO. Big difference.
Re: shaking it off. Maybe some of you guys that know him and/or fly out of this airport can let us know on here if he does come back. That's probably the only way we'll ever know.
Greetings everyone, the one major thing that caught my eye is where are the flaps? I don't see any flap deployment in any of the pictures. Stall speed (vsi)in a 172??
Certainly are a lot of hateful comments. I guess if a pilot makes a mistake he should have his license revoked or not given the opportunity to learn from his/error. Until all the facts are brought to light, I'll reserve comment on assigning blame. All I need to do to bring me back to reality is the visualization of a VOR approach to minimums with 40 knot quartering winds I did only to see an occupied taxiway directly off the nose when I broke out. Really less than ideal weather for a go around, but no shame in close call. Nobody injured and no property damage, but a learning experience I will never forget. I suppose all the haters have never had a close call or made a boneheaded decision. I'm jealous.
BTW......Was this a downwind "landing"?
Dang Ric! being a little rough on the guy ain't you?
I would not give up flying. Stuff happens. If you think you will drive the rest of your life (I am 59) and not be in one or more accidents in your automobile, possibly serious accidents, then you are kidding yourself. Life is short. Life is full of risk. If you love flying I would continue. I fear driving home in my car after I land more than in my plane. The thought "it made me reevaluate what is important". Would one live their life in a box as to avoid all risks? I don't think so. Let some time pass and get back in the seat.
SUV driver was probably yapping on a cell phone, with no situational awareness.
I can't say how many times cell phone drivers (Usually in SUVs, for some reason) have made left turns directly in my path, seemingly oblivious to other traffic.
The husband and wife were probably arguing over the restaurant chose...lol....he wanted to eat there and watch the planes land but his wife wanted to go to Outback..lol
Andover, NJ has a road crossing the app. end of the runway. Myself and others drive there and don't hit planes, we stop, look, and go. There's a lot of taildragger training there, Damian, the owner teaches stick and rudder and common sense skills, hence none of that dragging it in. Andover has a 1900 ft. runway with lakes on each end.
Also at my home airport N14, we drive across the runway at all times, day and night, no stop signs. What it boils down to is courtesy and common sense on the driver, and good basic flying skills on the pilot.
Yes , this was a student pilot, but his CFI has to have a part in this.
What road signs are there to warn motorists of the danger? You can't really blame the poor student, he would have touched down on the runway albeit at the displaced threshold. One can't expect a student to fly as accurately as a seasoned pilot. The SUV driver should have also had his eyes open, but his degree of negligence depends on what warning signs are established there (which the video doesn't show).
There is no actual signage. It is all on the road. Based on what the story says and from other comments here from those that have been there, it's hard to miss.
Based on the comments, I don't think people are aware that the SUV ran a stop sign. The pilot certainly should have had a little more altitude but otherwise had a good approach.
Especially with such little experience, trying to film the landing, possibly trying to get a "good shot" or just showing off is a distraction in and of itself. Even for us high time pilots (ATP & type rated), showing off isn't a good idea.
My God!
What road signs are there to warn motorists of the danger? You can't really blame the poor student, he would have touched down on the runway albeit at the displaced threshold,Probably needs to be some upright signage on the road. Could have been missed just marked on the road or as at an RR crossing, they just tried to beat the plane or weren't paying attention. Lot's of Airports have "Yield to low flying Aircraft" signage
I congratulate Mr. Davis on his decision to give up flying after this traumatic incident (even if there were no victims). I stopped flying 65 years ago after having unsuccessfully tried to fly with a highly experienced pilot who took off in a Fairchild to entertain the people present with some acrobatics in spite of a ceiling of little over 400ft. He disappeared in the overcast and came out in a spin from which he was not able to recover and crashed right in the middle of the landing strip. He was killed instantly and the plane smashed to smithereens.
I don't care how experienced you are. If you put an aircraft in an unusual attitude you are taking a chance that something might break or you won't recover for some reason. You are, by definition showing off. You are safer driving a car? I don't think so and the statistics are with me.
Get the license first and decide later,Family got to be first priority.Life is nothing any thing can happen eventhough you've prepare for all safety,just be aware and keep inmind of safty first.Good luck Bill.
Finish training! Get your license. No one can ever take it from you. Learn from the experience; be safe!
If my arithmetic is right the 65 mph final speed is 95 feet per second. Call it 100 feet for convenience. 3 seconds before impact the aircraft would have been a football field or less away with a throttle setting below 1500 rpm so very quiet and stealthy. The SUV operator would not stand a chance of hearing the Cessna particularly with the window up. Line of sight would not include the where the Airplane was and peripheral vision would not have picked up the Cessna until it was too late to react.
It's pretty clear there was little communication between the roadway owner and the airport manager. Coordination there is critical. Auto drivers have for years driven with their eyes closed, attention somewhere else. I think someone told me once that if there were only two cars in the United States the would collide. with each other.
Yup the pilot should have been better trained, but then I don't know that he wasn't admonished about the displaced threshold and it's purpose.
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the pilot screwed that one up....you can clearly see he is too low.
Gotta agree with you on that one Phil!!!
Yep he was too low but that isn't what cause the collision.
What if the engine had quit for some reason? He would been too low then too perhaps.
A good reason for cars to not be there when airplanes are landing. I am surprised that no one else has mentioned that.
I have made a lot of approaches.
Not all of them have been perfect.
My bad. Looked for the squawk and didn't see it.
Just taking a ride!
Actually if you read the latest the displaced was removed due to the former
fence being replaced.
From WFAA Here is the airport owners statement, so the student Was closer to landing at the end. It looks like right at the end the plane dipped due to air from the moving car or something. Also isn't a 172 with no flap a bit nose high, he may not have seen the car try to bolt across the runway. This looks like it may be car owner totally blowing it
From WFAA
The owner says.
A Google Maps aerial photograph of the runway taken several years ago shows an arrow designating where planes can land moved away from the north end of the runway.
Today, the arrow is at the edge of the landing strip.
The airport's owner said the marker was first moved because of a dangerous fence made of railroad ties located just beyond the end of the runway. When the airport installed a breakaway plastic fence, the landing marker was moved back.
Well, he was a little low, the SUV got in the way, and he hit it. All walked away. Hopefully he'll get his nerve back one of these days. Insurance will probably cover the damage but it will take him some time to get over it.
I watched that video and read the article. They have utterly no idea what they're talking about. It matters not one bit where the "arrow" is. It matters where the runway threshold is. Looking at the current AF/D which I just updated last night on ForeFlight Mobile, there is a 400 ft displaced threshold on runway 17. The talk about arrows being moved and what not is meaningless.
I watched that video. They have utterly no idea what they're talking about. It matters not one bit where the "arrow" is. It matters where the runway threshold is. Looking at the current AF/D which I just updated last night on ForeFlight Mobile, there is a 400 ft displaced threshold on runway 17. The talk about arrows being moved and what not is irrelevant.
(sorry for the redundant posts... web browser fail!)
Beg pardon, but this is just more of the sissy attitudes pervading the country today. If he had a "traumatic" car accident, would he give up driving? Hell no! And exactly what trauma did he suffer during this "traumatic" landing?
He should give up flying- he hasn't the stones for it.
It is not being a sissy to comprehend and accept that one does not have what it takes to be a good pilot. Although the accident with the car was primarily the SUV driver's fault, the pilot practically hit the fence coming in way too low. The extended threshold was there for a reason, and it appeared the pilot ignored that reason.
Pilot Error............. Too low for approach
student pilot+3000 foot runway= low approach
Nothing a few degrees of flaps can't fix when he comes back to try it again.
Not hatin'. I've got more than enough regret-nuggets in my own bag of experience.
Don't we all
He would have landed ok I bet, if a car had not been where cars are not supposed to be when airplane are landing.
Low, slow or whatever, you are 100% correct. Everybody is saying his first solo but they overlook the article and that he was returning from his first CROSS COUNTRY SOLO and there is a big difference.
like Dan Grelinger siad there is not a single cause to this anything could of happend
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)
Plane hits SUV on landing.
The wife of a pilot whose single-engine plane clipped a passing SUV while landing at a North Texas airport over the weekend caught the collision on tape.
I blame the auto manufacturers. They may SUVs so large, its hard to miss them.
This seems like a pretty stupid place to put a road/airport if you need the words "stop" to keep you from hitting an airplane. Even if the plane landed short.
If you need the FAA to tell you how to fix this, you probably don't need to be running an airport. Stick to something more simple.
Google the airport at Gibralter.
now that's an intersection..lol
NEWS FLASH: Cessna and Volvo merge
We don't need guys like him as pilots anyway !
Who's he kidding. He'd never get his Licence even if he wanted it!! Probably just as we'll. now we'll all be safer!!
Ladies and gentleman,
May I present, Matzke, the NAFI Flight Instructor of the Year.
Please, Gerald, tell us more about your rare ability to motivate people to overcome their mistakes and soar with the eagles!
He is a real prize. I notice he has his private ticket. I guess that gives him good right to pass judgement instead of learning from it.
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This guys is such a wussy little bitch. He's probably not the kind of person who can think and stay focused in situations like this and that's why he didn't react properly to being to low (there's only one real step: increase the throttle). Then he quits because he's "traumatized". Grow the hell up or go take a piss in the ladies room.
I once made an emergency landing for engine trouble then repo'd the plane back when the issue was resolved. I didn't run away crying like this asshole.
Mike, that was uncalled for. What's the saying, "Don't judge a man 'til you've walked in his shoes"? I just hope something like that never happens to you.
Whats the matter mike. Wife leave you or something. Rather rude reply dont you think.
Take a piss in the ladies room, oh yeah!!!
Ok maybe. I was in a bad mood this morning.
Alright I guess it was more than was really needed. I thought some of it was funny but I guess I just have an offensive sense of humor.
No, you're just an asshole. This industry isn't for everyone, jack.
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)
Video of Small Plane Hitting a Volvo SUV On Landing
Home video of a small plane hitting a Volvo SUV while coming in for a landing at a small airport in the DFW area. Everyone was ok.
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)
Plane hits SUV on approach to land
A Cessna 172 hits a SUV while landing in Texas. A public road runs across the approaching end of the RW
Dude like dont give up! Stuff happens & the vehicle didn't yeild as they should of. Its not a reflect of your ability. I saw the video, its not your fault. Get back in the saddle.
You will see how great it is to fly. What about your wife? It is no worse then a car accident. Shake it off. You can do it. You learned a lesson. The car was at fault
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)
Cessna hits car on approach
Cessna 172 hits car crossing in front of runway on private road. Student pilot had his wife there to video his first solo landing.
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)
Plane striking moving car at Texas airport
ROANOKE — After Saturday's collision between a small plane landing at Northwest Regional Airport and a sport utility vehicle on a road at the north end of the runway, Frank and Heather Laudo told WFAA in Dallas that the impact came as a complete surprise.
"We couldn't see anything at all, and then... all of a sudden... equipment was falling into the car," Heather said.
The pilot, William Davis, had asked his wife Kandy to shoot home video of his first solo round-trip. William said the video shows the couple driving into the plane's path....
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)
Plane hits car while landing
Home video reveals a serious safety concern on a roadway that lets motorists drive under planes landing and taking off from Northwest Regional Airport
The placement of the road is the whole problem here and should be fixed. The pilot could have seen the SUV but due to his experiznce didnt note it.I might have done the same. The airport owner operator should have seen this problem coming and fixed it no matter what it took. It was an accident waiting to happen. As far as quitting flying dont understand that as I guess now if he has an accident in his car he will quit driving? Think its a little over the top to stop flying.
If he had an accident in his car the first time he drove it alone, yes he might quit driving. This wasn't just another flight, it was his FIRST solo. Let it sink in and think how you'd (initially) react.
Exactly...First solo.....not like "if he had an accident in his car would he quit driving?" read the article...first SOLO....probably pretty terrifying
Er, folks. Do read the article again. It was his first cross-country solo.
I reread it and it's still not clear to me. How would his wife on the ground be able to video the entire session if he were on a cross country. I'm not arguing the point I'm confused by the magnificence of the writing talent.
she was only recording the return segment.....she heard him call in whenever he entered the pattern, went to the ramp and started recording
From what I could gather from this exquisitely written article, the FBO has had problems before. He mentioned somewhere in his interview troubles wit the road, the fence, ... Sounds like no one wants to foot the bill for a couple of signs and maintenance. The lane must access more than a restaurant and hangers as it mentions that it's owned by property owners.
After getting a look at Gibraltar nothing is impossible.
The phrase "eminent domain" comes to mind. Maybe the municipality or the state needs to condemn the part of the property where the road is too close to the runway.
Oddly enough it does not ALLOW cars to do that. It requires them to stop and make sure the way is clear before proceeding.


text:
In this photo taken Sept. 10, 2010, Elizabeth Edwards arrives at the "Stand Up To Cancer" television event at Sony Studios in Culver City, Calif. (AP Photo/Matt Sayles)
When Elizabeth Edwards died, two years ago today, Julia M. Klein reflected on meeting the author, lawyer and wife of former presidential hopeful John Edwards. Originally published December 2010 on Obit-Mag.com.
I met Elizabeth Edwards in July 2006, about three months before the publication of her first memoir, Saving Graces: Finding Solace and Strength from Friends and Strangers (Broadway Books). Already, her life had veered between good fortune and calamity, but there was as yet no hint of scandal.
I drove to the Edwards family beach house, on a private gated island near Wilmington, N.C., in a torrential rainstorm, a downpour so heavy that it was impossible to read street signs. When I finally arrived, late, I was immediately struck by the informality of the scene. The house was unpretentious, filled with pillows from Target and shore-themed paintings. Elizabeth was wearing a casual aqua pants outfit and sandals, and her two elementary school-age children, Jack and Emma Claire, were playing nearby, under the supervision of a nanny. We sat at her kitchen table, where pieces of a jigsaw puzzle were scattered. She offered to microwave popcorn. Jack, a gorgeous child who looked like a young Kennedy, commandeered the first batch, so she made another one for us.
For 2 ½ hours, Elizabeth answered – or, occasionally, skirted – every question I and my editors at AARP The Magazine had devised, on matters ranging from the side effects of chemotherapy to her husband John's presidential ambitions. She was every bit as warm and charming as I'd been led to expect. The surprise was her steel-trap mind. She was formidable.
It was only an afternoon, but that single professional encounter made me feel as though I knew her, at least a little. I left with her e-mail address and cell phone number. Once the story was published, I didn't pursue the relationship; reporters generally don't. But Elizabeth's later travails – both the metastasis of her breast cancer and the infidelity of her husband – struck me with special force. So did her death on December 7, 2010, at 61. Like many women, even those who never met her, I felt as though I had lost a friend.
Elizabeth's candor about her problems is part of what drew people to her. During our interview, we discussed deeply personal topics: her struggles with her weight, the raw grief she had felt at the accidental death of her 16-year-old son, Wade, in 1996, and the decision she had made in her late 40s to use fertility treatments to have two more children. My editors had pressed me to quiz her, somewhat indecorously, about just how she had managed that feat. Was it egg donation? After all, the children were born when she was 48 and 50. Elizabeth wouldn't say. She said she didn't want to give other women false hope. She added that the women in her family had a history of late-life pregnancies.
At the time, I was disappointed John Edwards wasn't on hand. His failed 2004 presidential and vice presidential bids had only raised his stock: He was a political rock star, a charismatic orator committed to the eradication of poverty -- not the cartoon villain he has since become. But I seized the opportunity to ask about their relationship. Here is the exchange:
Tell us more about your relationship with John. How do you keep the romance in your marriage?
I hear lots of ideas: You have a date night once a week, or you go on a honeymoon once a year. We don't do any of that. The way to have romance in your marriage after nearly 30 years is to marry the right guy in the first place. As simple as that. I married the right guy. I couldn't have married a better person – a sweeter person, a more compassionate person.
He became kind of a matinee idol during the campaign.
Oh, isn't that funny? Cate [her older daughter] and I would just laugh at him. He doesn't think of himself that way.
It's more a family joke than anything?
Yes, it is. We don't let him get away with any of that.
The ironies are obvious now. But I think Elizabeth believed what she told me. And I believed her. The revelation of Edwards' affair with Rielle Hunter during his abortive 2008 presidential campaign felt like a betrayal of us both. I have to confess that I devoured every sordid tabloid story about his escapades -- made far more dastardly, of course, by the fact of her cancer. I wondered if the thought of losing her was somehow too much to bear, whether he sought a lover in the way another man might have turned to drink.
Among women especially, Elizabeth's plight inspired considerable empathy. Most of us don't have a husband who has secretly fathered a daughter with a campaign videographer. What seemed familiar was the emotional dynamic: the attempt to rationalize outrageous behavior by an intimate -- to find a balance between love and rage, between forgiveness and the instinct for self-preservation.
In her second book, Resilience: Reflections on the Burdens and Gifts of Facing Life's Adversities (Broadway Books, 2009), Elizabeth wrote about the impact of the affair: "I was not wounded, not afraid, not uncertain before, and now I always will be." Despite her pain and anger, she was not yet ready to abandon the 32-year marriage. Edwards' belated admission of his paternity of Hunter's child (spurred this past January by a tell-all book by his former campaign aide Andrew Young) seems to have prompted their separation.
Amid all the paeans to Elizabeth's courage, a few critics have reviled her for initially keeping the secret of Edwards' affair to protect his campaign. But the treatment of Elizabeth in Game Change: Obama and the Clintons, McCain and Palin, and the Race of a Lifetime (Harper Collins, 2010) is uniquely harsh. Relying on Edwards' campaign aides (though no individual sources are identified), the authors, John Heilemann and Mark Halperin, describe her as "an abusive, intrusive, paranoid, condescending crazywoman."
This much surely is true: For years a successful lawyer in her own right, Elizabeth funneled her political ambitions and passions into her husband. Somehow, he became her vessel – even though, as with the Clintons, she was at least his equal, if not his superior, in intellectual firepower. So when he fumbled, when his campaign dropped the ball, it is not surprising that she might have been furious, might have lashed out. Feminism is, in part, about the anger of women who push their own ambitions aside.
My last memories of her are serene. We walked together on the dock outside her beach house. The rainstorm had passed, and the last rays of sunset cast a pink glow on the island. The house, situated where the sound meets the ocean, was surrounded almost entirely by water. It seemed fragile, delicate – as though it might somehow float away. Elizabeth let me take a photo of her. I wanted the evidence of our time together.
There is just one more thing – one last indication of who Elizabeth Edwards really was: In her final days, we are told, John Edwards was at her bedside. Wracked with guilt and grief, he would surely have wanted to be there. But she would have had to sign off on it, to have said, "Yes. Come." So love and forgiveness must have triumphed in the end. At least it feels better to believe that.
Julia M. Klein is a cultural reporter and critic in Philadelphia and a contributing editor at Columbia Journalism Review.
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The living room or great room, which was designed by Candy Johnson, features a red coral chandelier and many other unique items inside of Calypso Palms, the 2011 Designer Showcase House in Stuart.
The craft room, designed by Lynn Fensterer, in Calypso Palms, the 2011 Designer Showcase House. Each room of the large home was created by a different designer all while keeping a Caribbean and tropical theme.
Designer Susan Gelwicks Thompson makes a few final touches in the laundry room that she designed inside Calypso Palms.
Starfish in a bowl help add to the creative atmosphere inside of the lounge, which was designed by Francesca Morgan, inside Calypso Palms.
The back row is shown in the theater, which was designed by Christopher Johnathon inside Calypso Palms.
The kitchen and dining room, which was designed by Susan Morgan, features a festive chandelier and dining table set inside of Calypso Palms.
The master suite, which was designed by Stephanie Ferguson, awaits guests.
The master suite, which was designed by Stephanie Ferguson, has unique ocean-themed items.
A festive atmosphere fills the lounge, which was designed by Francesca Morgan.
The terrace, which was designed by Mary Washer, features unique items all around the poolside area.


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Tag Archives: paul ryan
Episode 48: What's News
People! Yes! Today's episode brings our first look at the Wall Street Journal since Nic and Campy and I tackled it like before last Christmas. Delving into the abyss with me is the always-game Arthur Hickman. This is a grand … Continue reading
Episode 48: What's News [ 1:18:42 | 54.04 MB ] Play Now | Play in Popup | Download
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ALEXANDRIA, Va. (WUSA9) -- Alexandria city leaders are once again threatening eminent domain against the Old Dominion Boat Club which sits on prime waterfront real estate in Old Town.
"It's not the building, it's the parking lot," explained Mayor Euille at a news conference where he and the both the city's attorney and manager announced that a public hearing would be held to hear whether citizens support the use force to take control of the Club's parking lot.
For 15 years, the city has been trying to negotiate a deal with the ODBC to take control or gain access to its half-acre parking lot which is surrounded by a chain link fence and a gate. Anyone walking along the waterfront path must walk around the parking lot.
"The public should be able to exercise and enjoy the waterfront. I don't think it should be in private hands, frankly. This waterfront is very valuable land, but not for a parking lot," said resident and avid walker John Sader.
City officials' call it the "missing link" in a mile-plus stretch of the waterfront pathway.
"The time to resolve this is now," said Euille, who has changed his previous stance on not pursuing eminent domain. "It just seems like we're never going to get there and after ten years I have had to change my approach and we'll have to do what's in the best interests of the citizens of this great historic city. And the citizens are crying out to us and saying, 'Move on, enough is enough!'"
City officials acknowledge the ODBC's history; it's owned the property since the 1920's. Over the years, the city worked to transform what use to be a warehouse district to the thriving business, entertainment and tourist destination that defines Old Town. But, they say, the parking lot is standing in the way of further progress and the waterfront plan approved by both the City Council and residents.
"As you traverse down King Street, what we want is a adequate and beautiful front door to the millions of dollars of both public and private investment that will be occurring in the waterfront and we want people to have a sense of place and to be able to have access all through this jewel and gem and is in Alexandria and makes us distinctive," said City Manager Rashad M. Young.
Old Dominion Boat Club Members see it differently.
Sean Gallagher said, "They're been trying to force us out incrementally for years. And the idea now, I think, if they take the parking lot then the club will fold... If you lose the lot, it's going to be problematic to sustain operations here at the boat club because how do people get boats in and out of the water?"
City leaders have scheduled a public hearing for Tuesday, November 19th at 6:00 p.m. After Council hears from the public, it may decide whether to pursue eminent domain or not.


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Michael Flemett unloads cases of rolls at the Carbon County Food Bank on July 29.
Every month, the pantry conducts a truck drop which allows eligible Carbon County residents to pick up food at the facility in Price.
According to food bank coordinator Dondra Nance, the local facility is experiencing a low volume of donations.
Around the holidays, we receive an overwhelming amount of food from the community. During the summer, the donations tend to slow down even though we have the same volume of residents collecting food,' explained the facility coordinator.
Because the local pantry is experiencing a supply shortage, a food drive is scheduled July 30 through Aug. 1.
Carbon County residents may donate canned non-perishable food items like fruits, vegetables and meats along with pasta, peanut butter or rice at Smith's between 9 a.m. and 1 p.m. as well as 4 p.m and 8 p.m. during the food drive.
A list of preferred items will also be available.
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We all know how horrendous the stock motorcycle turn signals of our beloved bikes can be. It's almost as if the bike designers had a bet about how big and ugly they could make them. Luckily for you, it's not hard to undo that and have a huge selection of new turn signals to do it with. From the Hotbodies Racing flush mount turn signals to the more chunky look of the Rumble Concept Joker Turn Signals, we have any style you could want. If your bike is older and doesn't have LED signals as stock, that's no problem either, we have all the resistors and relays you need to make them work.
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A bizarre break in at a dog park has Orange County deputies looking for the woman responsible.
Deputies say a woman tried cashing a stolen check at a bank in Winter Garden that came from a woman walking her dog at West Orange Dog Park.
The woman told authorities when she got to the park, she put her purse under the front seat of her car and locked her doors. But 45 minutes later when she got back, the passenger side window was smashed in and her purse was gone.
Tim Harris said he comes to the dog park often and was surprised to hear about the break in.
"It's really a shame when you can't go anywhere now a days you have to watch anything and everything in your car," said Harris.
Deputies believe the woman was being watched, so the thief knew exactly where to look.
Raquel Fox said the break ins have also happened recently at a nearby soccer field.
"We've had notices go through the soccer field that say watch your belongings, know where they are," said Fox.
Deputies said if possible, leave your valuables at home. But if you do bring a bag or purse, put it in the trunk of the car before leaving the house.
Deputies said the woman trying to cash the stolen check was driving a gray Toyota with the last three digits of the tag reading "YUD."
Anyone with information or similar cases are asked to call the Orange County Sheriff's Office at 407-254-6810.


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