text:
Plasma 30 Sleeping Bag 2013
Out of Stock Product Number: 39780
The Marmot Plasma 30° Sleeping Bag is it folks! Heaps of advancements in fabric, insulation, and design add up to the most evolved sleeping system on Earth. Incredibly lightweight Pertex fabric forms a water-resistant, breathable barrier against the elements. 900+ fill-power goose down is hand stuffed in Santa Rosa, California using Flow Gate Construction, which allows insulation to be shifted where it's needed most, anytime. Yeah, wow.
- Certified 875+ Fill Power Goose Down
- Down Defender to Improve Water-Resistance in Wet Conditions
- EN Tested
- Insotect Flow Vertical Baffle System Reduces Weight and Transfers Heat from the Core of Your Body to Your Extremities
- Designed to Increase Thermal Value Without Adding Weight
- Ultralight and Durable 10 Denier Pertex Quantum Fabric
- Wrap Around Foot Box Construction Incorporates Flow Design with Marmot's Classic Trapezoid Shape
- Full Length Zipper
- Insulated Draft Tube
- Hood Drawcord
- Insulated Collar with Easy Access Cord
- Velcro-free Face Muff
- Two Way Zipper Sliders
- Two Hang Loops
- Zipper Garage
- Fill: 875+ Fill Power Goose Down
- Temperature: 30° F / -1° C
- EN Testing Norm: 32.5°F / 0.3°C Limit
- Bag Weight: 1lbs 7.6oz (670g)
- Fill Weight: 10.8oz (305g)
- Loft: 4.5
- 83in (211cm)
- 60in (152.4cm)
- Hip: 58in (147.3cm)
- Foot: 43in (109.2cm)
- Stuff Sack: 7 x 15in
- 17.78 x 38.1cm
Gender: Unisex
Weight: 1lbs 6.44oz (636g)
Material: 900+ Fill Power Goose Down
Season: F13
Vendor ProductId: 21040
Review ProductId: 24959
Staff Pick: the Marmot Plasma 30 sleeping bag
"I've honestly never climbed inside a goose down bag as lofty as this one. If there's any doubt that the Marmot Plasma sleeping bags will keep you warm right down to their rated temperatures, that doubt is completely eradicated the first time you climb into this bag. Between the 900-fill down, the top-of-the-line shell material and the radical design, Marmot has clearly engineered the best sleeping bag on the market right now. You can't actually touch the Marmot Plasma through the internet, but you can see the great lengths Marmot has gone to with this bag..."
The new Marmot Plasma sleeping bag wins a Backpacker Magazine editor's choice award
"Available in two temperature ratings — the Marmot Plasma 30 and Marmot Plasma 15 — as well as regular and long versions, these bags push the limit of just how light an ultralight down sleeping bag can be. Utilizing a 900-fill goose down for insulation, these bags weigh in at an astonishing 1 lb, 6 oz (+30F version) and 1 lb, 14 oz (+15F version)! You simply cannot buy a better sleeping bag...."
What's in MY pack? Backpacking gear lists from a Great Smoky Mountains overnighter
"Ever since we published a series of backpacking gear lists this spring (an ultralight backpacking gear list, a traditional backpacking gear list and a beginner's backpacking gear list) several blog readers have contacted me to ask which of those items I personally carry. After all, it's one thing to compile lists of suggested backpacking gear, and another thing entirely to disclose exactly what I take on the trail. Well, what better way to follow up those gear lists, and answer that question, than with another gear list?"
Reviewed by 3 customers
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Comments about Marmot Plasma 30° F Sleeping Bag (Long) New:
Perfect for cycle-tourism or backpacking, when weight is important!
- Comfortable
- Lightweight
- Packs Small
- Ultralight
- Warm
Best Uses
- 3 Season Camping
- Backpacking
Comments about Marmot Plasma 30° F Sleeping Bag (Long) New:
The Marmot Plasma 30 is the fluffiest, loftiest, most spectacular down sleeping bag I have ever climbed into. Ever. And I own three other 800+ fill down sleeping bags!
First of all, the 900-fill goose down is preposterously warm and light. The warmth-to-weight ratio here is absolutely as good as it gets. Beyond the down insulation, though, the Pertex Quantum shell has a great feel and doesn't seem like it has to be handled carefully... in contrast to other ultralight down sleeping bags on the market. The fabric has sort of a micro-ripstop to it, and it doesn't leak down like some of my other down bags do! Frankly, the shell material is above and beyond my expectations, and what sold me on this bag specifically.
In addition to its seriously light weight, Marmot has really done a great job maximizing thermal efficiency here. The face collar and down-filled hood trap heat perfectly, and comfortably. The neck draft collar is big and fluffy, and the draft tube is both huge and effective. The zipper is a YKK and rolls smoothly, with a well-designed anti-snag strip on the inside to help from snagging the draft tube. You do have to be careful not to catch the outer shell when zipping quickly, but at least the material is tough enough to handle it!
All in all, this thing is a dream to sleep in, and the Backpacker Magazine "editor's choice" award and Outside Magazine "gear of the year" award it earned in 2011 both agree with me. At 1 lb 8 oz, you're not going to find a better, lighter bag that will legitimately keep you warm when the night-time temperatures reach that magical +32F threshold!
I wish it came with a compression stuff sack instead of a regular one, but you'll be surprised how small this thing packs anyway. Seriously, five stars out of five. I'd give it six stars if that were possible. The Marmot Plasma sleeping bag is the best bag out there right now, and it's worth the price of admission.
- What Is Your Gear Style:
- Minimalist
- Was this a gift?:
- No
- Comfortable
- Durable
- Lightweight
- Packs Small
- Warm
- Zipper Snags Easily
Best Uses
- 3 Season Camping
- Backpacking
- Climbing
Comments about Marmot Plasma 30° F Sleeping Bag (Long) New:
I would have given this 5 stars but there is always room for improvement. The zipper has stuck on a few occasions and I feared I might actually damaged the material but thus far have not.
Marmot continues to innovate even though they've had many bags in their line-up for years (now classics). The weight savings is minor over a very capable Marmot Hydrogen 30 for less money. The materials and the fact it's 900 fill justifies the difference in price for the Plasma 30. My get the Plasma 15 but I'm happy with my Helium for the time being.
- What Is Your Gear Style:
- Comfort Driven
- Was this a gift?:
- No


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Sunday celebrates Beltane, or May Day, the third and last of the ancient Pagan fertility festivals. The first, Imbolc, is the first stirrings of the new season. The second, Ostara, celebrated at the spring equinox, recognizes spring has arrived. In many northern climates it is still too early to plant. Beltane would be the time when northern communities would be getting ready for their planting season.
Beltane is one of the two most important Sabbats, or Holy Days, of the Wiccan Wheel of the Year. It is the equal and opposite of its sister, Samhain, which is celebrated Oct. 31. Samhain is a somber occasion, where believers reflect on the end of life and honor those who have come before.
In contrast, Beltane recognizes the beginning of life. All of nature is renewing itself. The Earth is warming, turning green, fruit trees are blooming and animals are giving birth to their young.
Beltane, like Samhain, is a time when the veil between the worlds is thinnest. At Samhain, it is believed that communication with the departed is easier. At Beltane, communication with the world of Faerie is possible.
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Building Writing Skills: Sounds to Letters (Resource Book Only) eBookPreschool|Kindergarten
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Writing is an active process that helps students develop higher order thinking skills. The practical yet fun-filled writing strategies in this series encourage students to expand their thinking processes and transform their thinking and reading skills into written words. This isn't just another set of writing lessons. It's a well-developed strategic plan peppered with fresh ideas and surprising activities that inspire students to do their best! In this book, students learn to identify sounds and link them to letters of the alphabet.
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Home made guitar cutter
Posted 14 March 2007 - 05:09 AM
I am so impressed by how nice your platform came out with all the 1/4" cuts. Everything is sooooo straight! Did you go over it with a brush to help remove the extra fibers from between the cuts? I don't know what a fence is, but I'm sure my construction-savvy better half will know what it is, and I'm sure he has a miter guage. I am so going to try to make one of these. Anyone I speak to that's not into pastry and try to explain what a guitar cutter is can not believe how expensive they are. I think they think I'm lying! I couldn't believe how much a sugar box was, so I made my own for a fraction of the cost. Thank you for sharing your experience with us!
Posted 25 March 2007 - 08:35 PM
Finally I left the piece to cool down and discovered the second problem. It contracts as it cools and trapped the wood form as it did so. In addition it must have weakend the joint because it broke free a couple days later.
I figured the problem was that even with MAPP gas the flame just wasn't hot enough to get the joint up to temperature without heating the entire piece. I would require an oxygen flame and that meant buying a welding kit. I was about ready to drop the project but I found an inexpensive oxygen/MAPP gas torch kit. It was only $10 more than a simple MAPP gas torch so I bit.
I tried that tonight. Unfortunately I found that even that flame won't heat the joint enough to melt the brazing rod without heating the entire piece up. I believe a big problem with my design is that the large pieces of aluminum are too good a heat sink and just drains the heat away from the joint. The brazing rod isn't quite as easy to use as the instructional video would have one believe. Perhaps that is just because I'm not an accomplished welder to begin with.
So once again I'm stuck. It's getting to the point where even if I do eventually complete a frame it may take more skill and equipment than my original design goal of being able to be built by any reasonably handy person with a few inexpensive tools. I am sorely tempted to take Kerry up on her discount and order a commercial cutter so I can get back to making chocolates.
Posted 25 March 2007 - 11:50 PM
i'm extremely impressed with the progress that you have made, but it does seem that even as expensive as a commercial guitar can be it might end up being cheaper in the long run.
i wish i had a reason to buy one, because i'd do it in a second. they're great for cookie dough as well as ganaches and everything else. the labor and cut down on waste is incredible.
Posted 26 March 2007 - 08:31 PM
Posted 26 March 2007 - 09:06 PM
Wouldn't it be easier to take it down to a shop that can do TIG welding and have them weld it up in about a half an hour?
What would be the cost of welding up four frames? For reference of how many joints ther are, my design is up at the top of this thread.
If we are talking about professional welding though, I would alter the design to use steel for lighter weight and less bulk. Probably square stainless steel tubing for the sides and some form of bar stock for the ends to hold the bolts.
Posted 27 March 2007 - 07:12 AM
Posted 28 March 2007 - 10:32 PM
I used a pair of pipe clamps insulated from the metal by bits of wood so they wouldn't drain off heat from the work piece. I left out the center wood frame and just pressed the long sides into the short sections. That kept the expansion in check and prevented contraction from pulling the newly formed joints apart.
I used too much of the filler rods and made a bit of a mess the first time through, but the next time should be much neater.
I started with both the MAPP torch and the MAPP/Oxygen torches, but soon ran out of Oxygen in the latter and continued on with just the garden variety hardware store MAPP torch. I realized that the simple one is all you need. The trick is to wait long enough for the work piece to come up to temperature, and that can take several minutes. I suppose two regular torches would speed that up quite a bit but it isn't necessary.
Here's a closeup of one of the joints:
This particular frame is going to be a tight fit for the cutting board so I'm just going to make it my learning piece. Future frames will be cut 13" wide instead of 12" to give a good 1/2" clearance on either side of the cutting board. I'm also going to cut the pieces on the tablesaw to get perfectly square edges which will improve the look of the joints and ensure the whole frame squares up nicely.
The next task will be to drill and tap the holes for the bolts, drill the holes for the wires, and string it all up. That will be the proof of whether or not the design is strong enough.
Posted 29 March 2007 - 05:41 AM
the Chocolate Doctor
Confectionary Course • Confectionary Course Q&A
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Posted 06 May 2007 - 12:05 PM
I first tried to drill by hand, but that was a dismal failure. I tried to use a center punch to get a dimple to start the bit in, but the bolts are stainless steel and refused to mark. Next I used a Dremel tool to grind a small flat on the bolt first and that sort of worked but not very well. I dulled a couple bits on the bolt before having to take a break and think.
I gave up momentarily and ordered bolts though Design Realization for $3.84 a piece, but ended up canceling my order when I found out shipping would be $24 if I wanted it in a week or $18 if I was willing to wait for three. That would have brought the cost to $62 for ten bolts and I just couldn't bring myself to double the cost of the cutting frame just for the bolts.
So it was back to research. I knew people drilled bolts for saftey wiring so I took that track. That was when I found this handy little jig:
Just what I was looking for...
I read that I needed a Cobalt drill bit to cut through Stainless Steel. This is supposed to be used with a 1/16" bit so I ordered the jig and went to the hardware store to pick up the bit.
My first attempt was to clamp the jig in a vice and hand hold the drill. That's how I snapped off two bits before giving up once again...
More time passed as I contemplated buying a drill press to cure my hand holding problem, but I just didn't want to add that expense to the project. Then I recalled a hand held drill jig/press I had that might do the trick. The problem was that it had to be pressed against a flat surface to work and the bolt jig was definately not.
Then I got the bright idea to clamp the jig between a couple boards cut for the purpose:
That gave me the flat surface!
So now I could drill.
I filled the tiny hole with as much oil as I could coax down and coated the bit with more oil before placing it and starting it up. The first bolt drilled through in about 20 seconds and I was elated. The next bolt I tried took a bit longer. I manged to break the tip of the bit off in another bolt. I think one bit is good for two or three bolts, but I didn't keep strict track of it all. Once you find the bit spinning without cutting don't just replace the bit and keep going. The heat work hardens the Stainless Steel and you will just end up ruining the next bit. I verified this so you don't have to. I hope to get three or four bolts per bit once I get the hang of how much pressure and what speed to run the drill at for optimum cutting. That would put the cost per bolt at $0.25 for the bolt itself plus $0.73 to $0.55 for the bit.
The finished bolt
I quickly strung a couple wires in the frame to test it out and that is when I discovered a design flaw.
No, the frame did not collapse under the strain. What happened was that I couldn't draw the wire as tight as I wanted. I turned the bolts and drew the wire into place, but once it was drawn tight enough to make the two 90 degree bends it wouldn't pull through any more. The bends work hardened the wire and it wouldn't flow past it. I should have realized that is what would happen, but Llyod had and example of it working so I didn't give it a great deal of thought. The wire will tighten fairly well that way, but just not as much as I would like. So now I'm looking for a half round rod I can use to greatly enlarge the radius of the 180 change in direction for the wire. I think a 1/2" diameter would do well. I haven't been able to find that for purchase anywhere so I might end up having to split a full round rod on the table saw.
Posted 06 May 2007 - 12:54 PM
I bought a little tiny cheese cutter on e-bay a couple of weeks ago. Just waiting for it to show up. It has 2 sets of wires at 90 degrees to each other, with the wires spaced 7/8 inch apart. Should made a interesting teeny guitar.
Keep us posted.
the Chocolate Doctor
Confectionary Course • Confectionary Course Q&A
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Posted 08 May 2007 - 04:28 PM
I've been reading with interest, and have been collecting materials. It was difficult to fing a thick cutting board, but I happened to run across one at my local housewares store. I have a question, what kind of blade did you use on the tablesaw to get a thin cut in the board?
My husband is in to RC(remote control cars), and suggests you look at 'rigging couplers' for RC airplanes. They are pre-drilled threaded shafts that may work for tensioning the wires.
Also, what kind of wire are you using?
Posted 08 May 2007 - 09:21 PM
Hi David,
I've been reading with interest, and have been collecting materials. It was difficult to fing a thick cutting board, but I happened to run across one at my local housewares store. I have a question, what kind of blade did you use on the tablesaw to get a thin cut in the board?
My husband is in to RC(remote control cars), and suggests you look at 'rigging couplers' for RC airplanes. They are pre-drilled threaded shafts that may work for tensioning the wires.
Also, what kind of wire are you using?
Hi Choux,
I'm happy to hear that others are interested in my design. I've got ideas on how to make a easier jig/clamp for the initial brazing of the frame so stay tuned for that. Once I get done with the proof of concept I'm going to make another correcting for all the inaccuracies and problems I exposed with the first attempt. I'm also going to take more pictures including video to document the process.
I found the cutting board online for somewhere around $30 for a 12x18x1" board. You'll find lots of suppliers if you just Google "HDPE cutting board".
After searching the web for a couple days without success I found a "thin kerf" blade at Home Depot. I left the blade over at my friends home since it is his tablesaw I am using so I can't give you specifics right now. Basically it's got a 1/16" kerf and it's about 8" or 10" diameter. I'll try to remember to stop by the store again and see if I recognize it. If so I'll post the details.
I took a look at the rigging couplers and they look fine but for the fact that they don't have a socket in the top with which to tighten them. I believe they are meant to spin into a coupler freehand, then run a cable through the hole and crimp it in place. The guitar cutter needs something more like a tuning pin that can be turned under tension.
For the wire I bought 60lb test Stainless Steel trolling wire from alltackle.com. It comes in a 600' package which means I've got far more than I need. I'd be happy to send you some. There is no way that I'm going to use half of it.
The HTS-2000 aluminum brazing rods are another item that several people could probably split an order of. When I get my second frame brazed up I will measure how many rods I use so others can arrange a group buy. It shouldn't take but a fraction of the 1lb minumum order so people can split it and keep costs down.
The bolt jig for drilling is called "ALLEN SAF-T-BLOK STD" at aircraftspruce.com.
That's all I can think of for now.
Posted 09 May 2007 - 06:10 PM
Posted 11 May 2007 - 12:32 PM
I have a question, what kind of blade did you use on the tablesaw to get a thin cut in the board?
The sawblade I used is from "Ridgid" and is golden in color as it has a "Titanium Coating"and also has "LASER CUT-REDUCED VIBRATION TECHNOLOGY" (basically curling slots cut in the blade).
The blade is 7 1/4" in diameter with 24 teeth and the kerf is a mere 0.059". The item number is R0724R
Here's a link I found:
Posted 12 May 2007 - 03:50 PM
I have made my own with some great sucess. It does involve collecting old residential ice makers. Even the commercial will work. There are many cube size varieties. Check it out.
Edited by panini, 12 May 2007 - 03:51 PM.
Posted 12 May 2007 - 03:57 PM
Have you got any pictures for us to see?
I totally appologise if I'm repeating someone else. I just did not have the time to read everything w/ mom's day and all.
I have made my own with some great sucess. It does involve collecting old residential ice makers. Even the commercial will work. There are many cube size varieties. Check it out.
the Chocolate Doctor
Confectionary Course • Confectionary Course Q&A
eGullet foodblog 2006 • eGullet Foodblog 2012
Posted 15 May 2007 - 06:39 PM
I've drilled all the cap screws and strung the frame!
I wrapped one end of the wire through a small washer to hold it in place:
The other end went over a loose 1/2" rod, back through the frame, and around the screw:
I didn't have a chance to try to cut the rod in half and found that it works just fine as it is. I was afraid that the combined tension of the wires might bend the frame a bit, but I don't have any evidence of that at all. I installed the wires from the outside in and non of them loosened as the others were put in. That shows the frame could be widened out to 15" or 16" without having to get thicker angle aluminum.
Nuts secure the cap-screws in place to keep them from backing out:
Finally here is a shot of the frame with the cutting board:
I bought some JB weld glue to attach the handle with, then I've got to create the hinge and base to mount the cutting table on.
Posted 15 May 2007 - 06:42 PM
Posted 15 May 2007 - 06:46 PM
the Chocolate Doctor
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Posted 30 May 2007 - 11:46 AM
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Sir Luscious got gator belts and patty melts
Posted 30 May 2007 - 09:27 PM
I used JB Weld epoxy to attach the handle to the frame,
and I trimmed the back edge of the cutting table so that the wires would feed into the slots without catching.
I still haven't mounted everything on a base yet, but I couldn't resist trying it out anyway. To do this I placed the cutting table on a couple of books on the coffee table to give it height and held an end of the cutting frame in each hand. I made the mistake of adding a thick foot of tempered chocolate and it set before I managed to get it cut. That meant I had to press fairly hard which stretched some of the wires, but it cut the slab anyway:
I tightened the loose wires and proved that by adding the rod I achieved enough of a radius that the wire would flow easily and could be retightened.
Perhaps next weekend I will attack the base. I had meant to get to it over the long Memorial Day weekend but ended up making two batches of truffles instead.
While it has taken quite a while for me to get this far because I've had to design it as I go, I marvel at just how little effort or expertise it would take to duplicate.
Posted 03 March 2008 - 08:51 AM
Posted 03 March 2008 - 12:51 PM
bumping the thread up in case there's been any developments here that we'd find interesting 8-)
No big developments. I've been lazy about designing and building a base. Instead I've just been using it hand-held and found it works nicely in that I can rock it to cut from the back, then front, then middle. That works out especially well when the ganache is stiff or I miscalculated and let a tempered chocolate foot set up too far.
Right now it's on loan to Tammy. Perhaps she will post her comments.
I have speculated that the whole thing might be able to be constructed with epoxy rather than having to deal with brazing. A slight channel cut in the side rails for the ends of the cross pieces would ensure that the glue didn't have to hold against a shearing force. If that worked it would reduce the skill set required by a notch, not that brazing is all the difficult.
Posted 03 March 2008 - 01:13 PM
My biggest learning from borrowing David's guitar cutter, is that I don't actually want my husband to make me one, even though he probably could. Because it was way too easy to produce 220 perfect squares of ganache, and way too time-consuming and tedious to hand-dip 220 perfect squares of ganache. Have I mentioned how much I HATE dipping?
So I bought 4 more molds instead, and will up my capacity that way. (I usually make 4 flavors at a time - 3 molded, one enrobed. I'm just going to switch over to all molded except when there's a flavor I really want to do that has to be enrobed, and I'm feeling particularly masochistic.)
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Posted 03 March 2008 - 02:10 PM
Edited by Sebastian, 03 March 2008 - 02:11 PM.
Posted 03 March 2008 - 02:41 PM
I'm (well, a good friend of mine will do the real work) about to start making two types of cutters, inspired, of course, by your efforts here. one will be a conventional 'hinge' action guitar, the other i think i'm going to take a '4 post' approach, where the corners of the cutting board have vertical guides that allow for a 'screen' to lower on them, effectively cutting both directions at the same time. if the tolerances are tight enough, there shouldn't be any wiggle room and the cuts should be nice. when i get to the point of actually doing it vs drawing it, i'll post pictures 8-)
It sounds like you are planning on duplicating Llyod's design (which is where I got my inspiration). His works great for the punch style, though I would opt for a single row of bolts in each direction to cut down on the effort required.
I'll be watching for your design and pictures!
Posted 03 March 2008 - 02:58 PM
Sorry guys I was just venting a little about my health department.
Edited by ChristopherMichael, 03 March 2008 - 03:00 PM.
Posted 03 March 2008 - 05:43 PM
Just to let you know, if you plan on using that in a commercial kitchen, don't let the health inspector know about it. Wait until they're all gone before you bust it out, because it's not NSF. Shame on all of you for being handy. java script:emoticon(':biggrin:') smilie <---- why isn't this working? its suppose to be a smile
Sorry guys I was just venting a little about my health department.
And understandably so. Your health department SUCKS. I've been reading your posts with much sympathy and anguish for you.
Creating unique food and drink experiences
eGullet Foodblogs #1 and #2
Dinner for 40
Posted 05 March 2008 - 01:29 AM
My biggest learning from borrowing David's guitar cutter, is that I don't actually want my husband to make me one, even though he probably could. Because it was way too easy to produce 220 perfect squares of ganache, and way too time-consuming and tedious to hand-dip 220 perfect squares of ganache. Have I mentioned how much I HATE dipping?
Well, you could wait for David to 'Alton Brown' an enrober and ask your husband to do that too. Then it might be worthwhile!


text:
While this has yet to be officially announced, the general consensus is that a trade is nearing completion involving Calgary Flames centers Olli Jokinen and Brandon Prust in exchange for wingers Ales Kotalik and Chris Higgins.
According to Larry Brooks of the NY Post as well as Darren Dreger of TSN, there was a deal in place last night including Ales Kotalik, but a late development prohibited it from being announced.
Kotalik flew to NY prior to tonight's game after learning he had been traded.
Rick Carpinello of LoHud explains that the hiccup is still not completely resolved, which may have to do with a no-movement or no-trade clause. However, during TSN's trade deadline analysis, only Wade Redden, Chris Drury, and Michal Rozsival were listed as having NTC.
If this trade were to comensurate, it would provide some longer term cap relief for New York. While the money at this point is virtually equal, Jokinen at $5.25 million and Prust at $500,00 while Kotalik is at $3 million and Higgins $2.25 million, Kotalik has two more years remaining on his contract and Higgins was due to be an RFA in the summer. Both Jokinen and Prust are UFA's at the end of the season.
When all is said and done, it's very possible that the Rangers get nothing back long term. If Jokinen and/or Prust don't re-sign, then Kotalik and Higgins went for nothing, which has been seen before on Broadway.
Similar to when Nigel Dawes, Dmitri Kalinin, and Petr Prucha were shipped out to Phoenix for Derek Morris, but he signed with Boston in the offseason.
It's good to dump a bad contract, but you want some longer term value with your return. This regime has not been able to solidify that.
However, it's a way for GM Glen Sather to admit a mistake without admitting a mistake. With an additional $5.75 million free after the season, it gives him some flexibility to retain Marc Staal, Dan Girardi, and perhaps Vinny Prospal.
The addition of Prust would also suggest that Aaron Voros and/or Donald Brashear could see their tenures come to an end.
Follow us for updates on Twitter.


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denham quilted jacket
by LAVENHAM
Men's Size Chart
Product Details
A Classic design, two inch diamond quilt jacket with patch pockets, button closure, corduroy collar and trim. Lined with polyester for a lightweight yet warm composition.
• double vent at the back
• 100% coated ripstop nylon
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Arabic water clocks
Arabic water clocks ARTICLES
Figure 1. The Umayyad mosque in Damascus. This image has been released into the public domain by its author 'Isaam Bayazidi (at the Arabic Wikipedia project).
When Ridhwan al-Sa'ati Anteceded Big Ben by More than Six CenturiesLEARN MORE
The following article by Abdel Aziz al-Jaraki, a scholar...


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We are always looking for enthusiastic individuals who have the time to be a part of our Butterfly Gardening team. We currently have 3 Work/stay positions open every month, and usually positions fill a month or two in advance, but don't be afraid to ask if we have any additional spots! The common day starts at 7am, where participants start the day with meal from the rotating menu on the balcony at the Bed and Breakfast, and then work in the garden starts at 8. Duties do change with the seasons, but the majority of the work will be butterfly and caterpillar care and feeding, and garden and trail maintenance. All of the basic duties can be learned here at the Mariposario. If you have any specific interests or skills in plant or insect husbandry, or even artistic or construction skills, we can also play to your strengths, but all you really need is an enthusiasm for working outdoors. After your work day, all the staff and work/stays have a family style lunch together, and the rest of the time is yours to play with in the beautiful setting of Montezuma.
The cost per person is $225 for the month. That, plus 5 four hour days of working in the garden (or 20 hours per week, to provide some scheduling flexibility) gets you a bed in our dorm room, and a full breakfast and lunch. The work/stay house also has two shared bathrooms, and a shared kitchen that you can use to prepare your own dinners.
See availability for working with butterflies.


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Roy Hunter wrote:Shirley Temple, 85, she was old.
The master of Thee Goode Shyppe Lollypoppe is obviously in mourning. Where is the little shit?
Sorry to hear that, ET. My condolences to you all.ET, the Extra Terrestrial wrote:My cousin Byron's wife, Mary.
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Medieval meets modern in Nuremberg, a city where old world traditions contrast with thrilling nightlife. Like many places in Germany, Nuremberg has a rich history, from the Holy Roman Empire to German monarchs and beyond. Tourists book tickets to Nuremberg to enjoy captivating ambiance, inspiring architecture, and dark, flavorful beer.
Top Things to Do in Nuremberg
- Sample authentic Bavarian beers at a beer garden. Sit back, relax and meet with the locals
- Walk the streets of the 'Altstadt' (old town) and admire the beautiful Gothic architecture
- Experience the local nightlife at one of Nuremberg's many bars and dance clubs
Discover Nuremberg
Learn about Nuremberg's history by exploring the city's museums. The 'Verkehrsmuseum' (Transportation Museum) features a large collection of railway displays showing the evolution of rail transport over the years. Children and adults alike will enjoy a visit to the Toy Museum, detailing advances in the art of toymaking. For a more historic experience, take a guided tour through the Medieval Dungeons near the main square.
Nuremberg's Pleasures
For a true taste of German culture, book your flights to Nuremberg in December and explore the annual Christmas Market. Each year, vendors set up tents and stalls in the city square selling food, beer, decorative items, toys and much more. Nuremberg is known for spicy gingerbread and other delicious foods.
Plan Your Nuremberg Holiday
Cheap hotels in Nuremberg are available in the early spring and late summer, when tourism begins to slow down. Fall and winter are the most popular seasons for tourists, when Oktoberfest and the Christmas Markets are taking place. You can find flight deals to Nuremberg year-round with airberlin.


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The Trouble With Terkel
Terkel is a miserable, unhappy sixth grader who is constantly picked on by two merciless bullies. One day Terkel finds a way to be cool, sadly it involves making fun of his best friends' sister and his girlfriend, what is a sixth grader to do? She ends up throwing herself out a window which only makes Terkel more popular. Now dealing with popularity Terkel finds solace is booze, guns and everything American. Terkel turns to his teacher, a stoned out hippie with intentionally hilarious results. Watch this Danish equivalent of South Park in outrageous pixar like animation.
Cast: Craig Ferguson, Marlise Garba-Wright, Eve Mauro, Shark Firestone, Mike Olsen
Produced by:
Directed by: Kresten Vestbjerg Andersen, Thorbjørn Christoffersen
Written by: Mette Heeno, Randolph Kret
Running time: 1hr 20min
Opens: Sep 17, 2010 Limited
|Theaters for Today
Pick a day
on this day.


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By Libby Lewis, CNN
Editor's note: Listen to our podcast in the above player to hear the complete story.
Washington, DC (CNN) - Dig under the rhetoric over taxes in Washington now, and you'll find one question: should the wealthy pay more in taxes than other people?
It's a question that goes back to the Bible. Geoffrey Miller is a law professor at New York University who's written about taxation in the Bible.
He writes about the Temple Tax, the one God told Moses to impose in Exodus 30. It's the one where each person, rich and poor, pays half a shekel – for the Temple – and God.
[:48] "The Bible says that's because you're redeeming your soul – and everyone's soul is worth the same amount."
Adam Chodorow's a tax professor at Arizona State University who's written a lot about the Bible and taxation.
He says the idea of equality in the Temple Tax – and in some other Biblical tithes – has been a touchstone for some conservatives in tax debates.
He remembers a referendum in Alabama a few years ago to change the state's tax system so that the wealthy paid more.
[1:18] "One critic of the reform said, and I'm quoting here, 'God imposes a flat income tax, or tithe, so it MUST be fair. If people do not pay the same tax rate, then obviously the rates must be arbitrary and capricious.'"
Subscribe to this podcast on iTunes or Stitcher. And listen to CNN Soundwaves on our SoundCloud page.
The belief of many in the USofA, that "America" replaces Israel as the people of God or as the chosen Nation among all the nations, has been called by some scholars "Supersessionism". That belief is a Heresy, a total nonsense, foolishness a total absurd. And as such has created in the past, is creating in the present and will create tomorrow more absurds.
Because of such belief we have this type of gibberish in politics and religion. That pretends to argue, that the Tithe Laws of the Old Testament are a principle for todays form of Taxation in the USA. Nonsense, absurdity and totally Heretical. We are NOT under that Law. Many of those Laws were ONLY for Israel. That Covenant God made it with Israel ONLY and with NO OTHER nation. Those Laws and Statutes were given to Israel ONLY and not to any other people or Nation. That was not a Tax as we know taxes to be today. Those Tithes and offerings were for the sole purpose of sustaining a religious system for Israel ONLY. It was NEVER applied to other nations and once Israelites moved or were outside of Israel they were not bound by ALL of its features, rules and regulations, begining with the Tithes.
So to pretend that we can even think of using those Laws, given ONLY to Israel is nothing more than a wishy-washy demagogy on the part of the GOPers, tea partiers, and neo-catholics/conservatives. Who suffer from a chronic tendency to supinely ignore Scriptures. So Progressive Taxation is Just and right. Especially given the Hedonistic and Sybaritic behaviour of so many.
If anything at all could be use in support to Progressive Taxation is part of the text of Luke 13:48 …"From everyone who has been given much much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more".
This is clearly is in the New Testament also called the New Covenant. Made not only with Israel like the Old Covenant was, but with all men of Faith, with all those who believe in God and Christ. However the Scriptures do indeed speak little about today's form of Taxation in the US of A. But progressive Taxation is fair and just, whether or not Luke 13:48 can be used to support it.
Since this discussion is about how the Bible speaks to the issue of taxation, I have no qualms with quoting it here. When we are writing legislation and making decisions about how to solve the problems in our economy, I think that while the separation of church and state is important, we at least need some kind of guide for morality because just about every law that is made has some sort of moral ramifications – deciding where to take money from is going to effect a lot of people's lives. No, the Bible does not speak specifically to taxation. But there are guiding principles that we can take from God's character. At least it gives us a place to start. I would like to humbly submit that God cares for the poor and he tells us numerous places in Scripture to help them. This is not to say that he does not care for the rich! He has blessed them with what they have for a reason. I am reminded of the money that was collected for the church in Jerusalem when there was a great need. The apostle Paul tells the church in Corinth that they should give, but according to what they have. "For if the willingness is there, the gift is acceptable according to what one has, not according to what he does not have" (2 Corinthians 8:12) I disagree with the statement that God asks everyone to tithe the same amount – the New Testament does not state this. Instead, the emphasis is on giving based on your income; if you have less, God does not expect you to give the same amount as someone who has more! In light of the looming fiscal cliff, I think we need to look for places in our country where there is an abundance of money and use this to start paying off debt – why take the same amount of money from everyone when some have more to give than others? Some people may say that it's their money and the government has no right to tell them how to use it, but the money has to come from somewhere!
I think paying tax is a way to offer as a tribute, but as a taxpayer we want know how the government uses this money. Even though, we try to using Bible to explain everything but we may forget what God give us like freedom. In the bible we can see rich people give their money to Church to manage it, because they trust them. In the modern society, there are too many things we can not choose like how much to pay or the percent on the tax, and where that money is going and what for. I think most the time we complain because the money is never going to whatever we want, and reason for the question we also do not accept, too.
You know therefore significantly relating to this matter, produced me in my view imagine it from so many various angles. Its like women and men are not fascinated unless it's something to do with Lady gaga! Your own stuffs excellent. All the time handle it up!
Barry Goldwater proposed a flat income tax in his book Conscience of a Conservative back in 1960. Barry stated then that this was the only constitutional way to tax income. Frankly, I think that if liberals thought about it long enough they might realize that when middle class folks pay over 16% in just flat payroll taxes, and over 20% in effective tax rate if you owe an average level of income taxes, then a flat tax in the region of 20-25% would capture a lot more of Mitt Romney's income (currently taxed at a rate of under 15%), not to mention a lot more of the income of General Electric (which currently pays no income tax whatsoever).
Romney passed "Ann Romney Turkey Chili" to Obama - did he wash it down with "Boston Tea"? - visions of "Hot Free Press" glossies, "Massachusetts Model" Crime Lab Slides, and "Berkshire Sugar Plum Fairies" dancing in his head-the averge "Middle Class" family makes over $85,000/year. Who knew it? Just more MY2K and "Banana Cheese" - Sen. John Kerry footsteps in the dark - care for more "Turkey Chili"? (wink)
Well TR6, you must be oblivious to the fact that every superpower eventually collapses from within. Read a history book. Once a nation stops working hard and expects cradle to grave entitlements, it begins to rot. It rots morally, then economically. We are right now in the latter stages of the rotting process, and you can feel free to keep your head in the sand, but the collapse is inevitable. It is just a matter of WHEN, not IF. QE1, 2 and 3 were simply attempts to stall the collapse, but total economic collapse is beyond prevention now. That anyone can think that trillions in debt can just keep piling up without catastrophic consequences tells me that you can't balance a checkbook.
Of course you are right. Just look at Sweden and badly they have decayed
What would the "RIGHTEOUS GOP" say? "Jesus healed the (Obamacare) sick, and cast out Demo-demons"
After reading the comments on this site for a couple of days I've decided that most of you don't even care about the original question... you just want to bash each other's brains out. No government can help every citizen, there isn't enough money. And no government can equalize "stuff". Socialism has failed every time it has been implemented. Governments must prioritize spending and spend responsibly. Most politicians for the past 2 decades have ignored that principle, and have destroyed our dollar, and thus our economy. We are currently collecting record taxes, and the rich pay the majority of that. Our national debt is to the point that it can NEVER be paid off, and it is just a matter of time until our entire economy collapses. Then nobody can be helped, and it will be every man for themselves. That's when we will find out who the real Christians are. I plan to help my neighbors if possible, when my nation implodes. Everything else you are all arguing about is about to be irrelevent.
Amen! May God have mercy on us.
You were a big fan of Howard (the world is ending in 2011) Camping, weren't you?
But that didn't teach you anything, did it
This article fails to mention a very important issue which is different now than in the days of Exodus. This is usury. Charging interest on loans is not allowed in the Biblical system where taxes are levied equitably. Let's get both reforms in place simultaneously.
Jesus had absolutely no interest in the political issues of the Roman Empire and I have to believe he would have no interest in the current political nonsense here in 21st century America. In fact, He had no use for earthly kingdoms, at all, but spoke of a heavenly (spiritual) kingdom of God. As to the current debate, I don't think He would appreciate people abusing the system but that is a small percentage of what is going on. Think about the life of Jesus and ask yourself, would He say "help the poor," or would He say "screw the poor, the job creators need another tax break?" The Gospels make it clear that His desire (and the path to that heavenly kingdom) was for us to care for the poor and less fortunate, not disparage them as moochers and takers.
Amen Amen Amen to this. Thank you
GOP HEAT - Obama/Patrick still "TogetherPAC" - Brought to you by HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY: Top Execs of Partners Health Care, Shields Health Care, Steward Health Care and Pfiizer - Obamacare "borrowed" from the "Romney Model"? Boston Hot Lips keeping the PAC "alive and well" with some help from his healthcare friends. Why did Patrick skip the DGA "Glittering Stars" meeting? Commonwealth GOP Heat burning State Crime Lab ambitions - who ever thought scandals could rip apart prison iron? Thousands of "Oz Prison Lovers" may then flee to the "Blue Hills" - Boston Hot Lips may then drown at the Bay before 2016 - or join the "Indians" at the Tea Party (wink).
Sure, Jesus would want to leave taxation alone and thinks that the government should stay out of it. That said, He thinks the government should be really involved in regulating a woman's vagina and men wanting to marry each other. It's amazing how convenient Jesus can be for Republican talking points...
I'm no Biblical scholar...but I'm pretty sure Jesus never said he wanted to REGULATE WOMEN'S VAGINAS! The church? that's a completely different story..
And where does he say it is ok to perform abortions?
Shawn Morrison "And where does he say it is ok to perform abortions?"
Where does it say it's ok to use a computer?
By the way He did say not to have sex before marriage? I wonder what percentage of abortions occur with unmarried people?
Why reference Jesus in the headline (WWJD?) and then cite Exodus? Jesus spent a significant amount of time refuting the Old Testament. He did say "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's," meaning, pay your taxes!
If you believe the stories he also was very clear that helping the poor and sick was something that the individual should be doing. That they had an obligation to do more than demand that the state take money from "that guy over there" to pay for it.
God will judge us all in the end. Love God. Read the Bible.
yeeeaaahh "the whole world is headed for mutiny... in the end well meet our fate together, one oh one......"
and John the Baptist told the people to " be content with youre wages", so much for union strikes
What would Jesus say? Nothing. Why should He? No one would listen. I mean, He has been declared unimportant in every other facet of our society so why should He say anything?
Read Progress and Poverty by Henry George. Henry George discussed a biblical approach to taxation. His conclusions were focused on not taxing wages or capital but land value which increases as the community grows around it.
We are handicapping ourselves as Americans in the idea of becoming more dependent on our government. I am pretty sure it is Jesus who saves, not our government. Taxing the wealth doesn't add to the Kingdom of Heaven. Why would Jesus want someone to invest more into a man made group of people rather than His own Kingdom? As far as I am concerned, I would rather have my own will to give than being forced to 'give'. My money comes from God not Ceaser.
"I am pretty sure it is Jesus who saves"
Have you let him know? Considering there are a crap-load of kids getting raped and murdered all over the planet, he seems to be a bit behind on the schedule.
YOU can have faith in something that has zero evidence of helping, the rest of us will depend upon Earthly means, thank you. And government is but one method of helping the less fortunate.
Jesus is welcome to help also, but he's but notably absent for the last 1500 years or so.
for someone pushing the threshhold of deity you are presumptuous to believe had we not had religion every thing would have been better through the centuries, not knowing that the fear of God has lead millions not to take the law into our own hands and exacting our will on society by force (or as you would say survival of the fittest)
One thing it is us not, God that does evil. He also gave us free will, that is the ability to do right and wrong. I was once a none believer, until I met people of a loving church. These people are also sinners, but an understanding that they could be redeemed. They help those who have been raped, abused, ect. Don't trust in men just like you or me that have little faith.
I think Jesus would say if the government levy's taxes....pay to the government what is the governments....."give to Caesar what is Caesar..."
It is amazing how we forget to say "Give God what is God's". We still have the choice to 'not' levy additional taxes and to say after that "Give Ceaser what is Ceaser's, and God what is God's."
I think Jesus would ask us why we are such a mess. The question would be meant to make us think. Let's see...we teach our children that they are simply really intellegent animals and that the "survival of the fittest" model seen in nature is perfectly acceptable human behavior, then we wonder why people are so greedy and desire all the wealth and power in the world! And the Bible does say that to not pay a fair wage to your laborers is stealing (in other words, it's a sin). Below is one quote that says the workers didn't get paid at all, but the premise throughout the Bible is to pay a fair wage and provide fair treatment, which most workers today do not get.
"Look! The wages you failed to pay the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty." ~James 5: 4
I don't want the rich to pay a higher percentage of their income than I do. I want them to pay the same percentage. Personally, I don't care if their percentage is raised or mine is lowered, so long as the rates are equal. And my salary puts me firmly in the center of the middle class, not at the bottom or the top.
Thank You, Lord God Jesus Christ, for taking God's wrath for me and dying for me on the cross to pay the price for my sins. I believe that You are the Son of God. I believe that God the Father raised You from the dead on the third day as it is written in the Holy Bible. Thank You, Lord God Jesus Christ, for saving me from going to hell forever. Thank You, Lord God Jesus Christ, for giving me a home in heaven with You forever. (1 Corinthians 15:3-4) (Romans 10:8-10) (Romans 10:13:)
Get a grip. Try actually commenting on the subject.
Well put Barry.
We are not ashamed of the TRUTH of Jesus Christ our Lord <3
Then it's about time he kicks in a couple of bucks.
Frigging cheapskate.
I am sorry that some of the earlier comments miss the point. They get lost in the title or some irrelevant detail. Like him or hate him, the principles off Jesus (and the Bible) still apply. A flat tax would make all equal. The only deduction would be gifts to charity (which is also strongly encouraged in the Bible). The total donated would be deducted from the total income and the remainder would be flat taxed. Can you imagine the tax code that would govern this law? It would be 4 lines.
Charlie, I tend to agree with your flat tax suggestion. I am a Christian, but nevertheless this piecemeal adoption of Jesus' teachings for government use is troubling to me. I don't think Jesus really talked about taxes, and I don't think any of His other teachings really address taxation– the "giving" of some of one's income/wealth by force of government. Jesus does speak of giving to the poor and helping others, but this is a teaching of how we ought to live, not what the government ought to force us to do.
If we are going to adopt some of Jesus' teachings we should adopt them all. Most would (correctly) argue that for government to do that would be to establish a religion and violate the First Amendment. For the "right" reasons, however, even those who have no religious faith are willing to adopt Christ's teachings and incorporate them into law. Imagine if Jesus had taught that same-sex marriage should be celebrated! We'd have a number of partial converts for sure.
The song posted above is very relevant to this article...
Would Jesus be building settlements on the West Bank to provoke Hamas?
In jesus's time the jews had been settled on the west bank for a thousand years
oh snap! the facts can be a bitch!
Jesus would probably forbid usury or a.k.a financing on the disinfranchized like the poor for self-gain or greed as its called. He would more than likely eliminate the military budget to 0% like I'd invision as well. Then, he would allow excessive luxury goods to be not be purchased and compell people to volunteer to volunteer for the poor. I'm not sure about an exact or affective tax rate but perhaps enough to meet each need in a cost affective manner by volunteer workers not corrupt unions or bureaucratic regulations to productivity. Lastly, I think Jesus would have the drug war ended with prostitution prohibition, gay marriage discrimination and allow ethical science to florish not stagnant.
So if you want to eliminate the military, who is going to protect your right to think, feel and "worship" as you please? If you can read, thank a teacher; if you can read in English, thank a veteran. Without the military, you'd be speaking Spanish, French, Japanese or German by now ... and who knows what limitations would be on the civil rights you hold so dear? How can you compel one to volunteer? Isn't that concept an oxymoron? I doubt seriously that you've been so coerced. The weathly, well off getting more so whilst the middel and poor descend even deeper into the pit? Now THAT would get his dander up, of that I am most certain ...
Who the **** cares what Jesus or the bible would instruct us to do? If the historical Jesus existed, he could not imagine what life would be like 2000 years into the future and what problems he would have to solve. The biblical writers prescribed moral conduct for their culture during their time in history. Most of it doesn't come close to being applicable in modern society, so why do we give a **** about it? Let's focus on solving problems with solutions that apply to our time.
You're going to hate me for saying this, and I do not mean it in a bad way, merely to prove a point.
Using your logic, that means the constitution of USA is outdated and therefore irrelevant to our time? That the Bill of Rights, and the amendments are pointless now? Sure the bible may be old, and yes it was written for a time where it mattered most, but most of the things in there are also (or have been) taught in our times.
The golden rule? I'm sure you've heard of it. That's in the bible. Are you also saying that's irrelevant?
Just a thought. Have a good day sir.
The Golden Rule can be traced as far back as 1800 BC – before most major religions of today but was used as a part of those religions – in the Code of Hammurabi and as well as notably taught by Confucius (551 BC – 479 BC). But to answer your question, yes – the Constitution gets out of date from time to time, hence we have the ability to amend it. Otherwise, Rebecca; you wouldn't have the right to vote.
ummm, I know you used the words amendments and bill of rights (1-10 are the same thing sweetie), but not sure you know what it means. That is the little thingy we use to make sure the constitution doesn't get dated. So that means your argument is invalid, see cause you likened the bible (collection of crazy stories made to scare people into behaving) to the constitution(articles that establish rules, separate the powers and provide a framework for American law ) Sorry no pictures or silly stories about 800 year old men willing to kill their child cause some voice in their head told them to, cause thats in the bible too!
The Constitution addresses and protects the right of US citizens to embrace their religious faith without fear of retribution by the government. You, of course, are also protected in your right to embrace no religion. I wonder, though, why you would go out of your way to insult those of religious faith?
oh, sorry, it is just taking awhile for you to make your point... are you planning on it anytime soon? Should I come back? Maybe tomorrow?? Sigh...
Sorry, but this topic goes back WAY before Jesus.
Donna Brazile, I am French but I do not care for Creoles nor "Bayou Twang" - but I'll give you some Etta James "Crawlin' King Snake" if you give me some John Hooker "You Shook Me" back (wink)
DONNA BRAZILE - what do old "down home" black women from Louisiana know about the "Blue Note Years"? Listen to Marlena Shaw sing "Last Tango in Paris" sweetie poo.
Dire Straits "Money For Nothing" (unedited version) - anyone hear those "strange Hawaiian noises" in the background? Just more "Banana Cheese."
Don't worry Donna Brazile, Jesus loves you more than you will know ( Simon and Garfunkel "Sounds of Silence") -- CNN probably won't fire your fat black Louisiana butt for exposing that George and Barbara Bush scandal (like Dukakis did) right? "Koo-Koo-Kachoo" Donna (wink)
Jesus said, "Give to Cesar what is Cesar's. Give to God what is God's."
Actually if we were living in Old Testament Times, all of the democrats and the minions who voted for them would have been struck down by lighting from above and cast into the blazing pits of burning asphalt......I guess God is patient and is waiting for the final judgment to make things right, too bad.
DickDentman, you actually meant rat-b*st*rd Republicans who, when not burning down orphanages, clubbing baby seals, or pushing old ladies in front of buses, prefer to demonize people of color, homosexuals, atheists as unworthy of your Lily-White God's love.
It is hilarious tat you MUST assign a "color" to everything. Since you must, God has no color. Jesus himself was from the middle east. As far a racism, I can honestly say that every single time I have heard a racial slur in my entire life....it has come from the lips of a devout democrat.
Exactly why did God STOP doing all that hellfire and brimstone stuff if he's so unhappy with things? In fact, I haven't heard a peep out of him since he told George Bush to be president. Must still be kicking himself over that one. (or, is a mythical creature)
I'm not sure how much God did/does the hellfire and brimstone stuff you speak of, but there have certainly been a number of pretty bad events over recent years. Tsunami's, hurricanes, tornadoes, etc. etc. Whether God ought to be given the blame/credit is another matter.
He had no problem taking credit 1500 years ago, but now he can't be bothered?
Your mass delusion is slipping.
Jesus would quite literally not care about US politics.
He'd probably desire that those with the power to help would help on their own initiative. He'd probably point to what Bill Gates is doing and say "OK, see this guy? Yeah, that kind of stuff."
He would probably weep at the concept that His name is being used as an argument for tax rates. He might also get angry, he did have that problem with the moneychangers after all, and anyone who's using WWJD as an argument for tax policy is a similarly dubious mix of abusing the faith of others to try and turn a profit.
Excellent response.
Anything not to pay more taxes and stay greedy. this is the sickness of white men...Not wrong to have money but becomes Sin when God is not number one in their lives. Cult members in the White House and House...on down. why are the leaders members of secret cults and having meetings behind the backs of the american peopled?
This nation has never been a christian nation when leaders from the get go were cult members and we have preachers preaching from the pulpit claiming these guys were christian men when in reality they were cult members. I know why now, they themselves are Masonic cult members! Southern baptist are huge in this area but also the Roman Catholic church which is the who.r e of revelations. Mormons practice Masonic rituals to!!! Greedy evil people need to get right with the God of the Bible.
Outrage. Enough blasphemy against the Church Christ founded for one lifetime. The Catholic Church is the Church of God on Earth. Which is why it is hated by those outside of it, just as Christ was. Wake up.
Jesus said "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God, that which is God's." God doesn't care what we choose to do politically because he allows us to choose for ourselves if we will do good or evil. It is also true that the Lord "uses the wicked to punish the wicked." Which I think is happening to us right now. If you want to choose God's way, then the only way to make it truly fair is to tax everyone just like a tithe. You can choose how much, but everyone pays the same share regardless of kids, homes, cars, and money off shore. If you did that everyone would have a vested interest and the wealthy would also pay more.
So the claim is what Jesus would do is what old Jewish law in the old testament required.
Jesus, of course, held views very, very different than those in the old testament.
It's telling that on so many issues conservatives ignore Jesus, cite the Old Testament, and then proclaim themselves to be Christians.
using the bible to justify their sin...
Fix it ? Raising taxes is never the answer but the corrupt status quo elite and corporate owned mdia would have the sheeple think it is. Cutting spending, wasteful unneeded programs, foreign aid, stopping the endless wars. That's be a start. Reducing the size of the government and keeping these shills within the scope of the Constitution would be the best start. We don't need a government so huge, so out of control and so up our arses that the people have to foot the bill. All of this fiscal cliff hype is purely the politicians and the rich elite living off our dime.
The title of your post undermines your argument. WWJD stands for What Would Jesus Do? You reference Moses.
Secondly, the title of your post undermines your argument. Jesus would probably be very confused as to why he was suddenly resurrected to make a decision on tax policy in 21st century America and would most likely wander off into the Midwest with some makeshift sandals preaching peace and love.
I doubt Jesus is confused as to the reason for his resurrection.
Oh, and here's what Jesus would say / think / do about taxes: " Uh, y'all, I talked to my Dad, and he still thinks it's so funny you've only figured out how to use 10% of your brain which He so carefully crafted for you. That you should be arguing about this stuff.... He just laughs (like, all the time; it's kind of annoying, really).
I like the sarcasm, but strangely I with you on this one...
The more that comes out to light, the more we can see that Obama was re-elected by severely under-informed and mis-informed voters. Unfortunately, there's no provision in the U.S. Constitution for reversing an election based on lies and deceit. As MSNBC Chris Matthews and Rachel Maddow would say, "It's called free democracy." Donna Brazile was just happy to witness the freedom of black vote - irregardless voting for someone just because he is black. Yes Donna, you did say (for the record) that you like Hillary Clinton because she is a woman (like you), and you like Obama because he is black (like you) - "As The Stomach Turns" brought to you by Proctor and Gamble - "TIDE: LEAVES YOUR CLOTHES FEELING CLEANER THAN CLEAN" (or was that the "99-44/100% pure" Marilyn Chambers on the IVORY SNOW box?)
Its OK. Far more did not vote for him just because he is black....
I really doubt that. If this election proved anything about conservatives, it's that their politics is more important to them than their religion (i.e. voting for a mormon.) Republicans would vote for a black conservative over a white liberal.
Your statement applies equally to both parties, except that for Democrats their politics IS their religion.
While perusing news on some of the things affecting out country I ran across this post from a comment on this web page:
Adina Kutnicki, Israel
How does one explain to average Americans that the Islamist-in-Chief (and surrogates…think: Huma Abedin/Hill, Samantha Powers etc) brought them to the point of no return, and intend to continue doing so? Will they believe that 'Dear Leader' hearts with the Iraqi 'refugee' even more than he does with average Americans? And the media is so in the tank, that if their offices explode they would still stay silent. Yes, they would.
Well, the POTUS is anti-American and IED's in America mean squat to him.After all, they explode all over the Muslim world. Why shouldn't it happen in 'imperialist' America? And it is due to his Sunni/Wahabbi roots that the west is witnessing the implosion (fiscally too) of America, as well as the Middle East. And what happens there reverberates in the US and all over the world.
Think this is an exaggeration? Fine. But here are some facts – http://adinakutnicki.com/2012/10/11/the-islamist-in-chief-his-kenyan-wahhabi-relatives-obamas-inner-roots-addendum-to-the-ties-that-bind-the-islamist-in-chief-to-sunni-islam-commentary-by-adina-kutnicki/
And it is not for nothing under his watch the Mid East is worse than ever, and more 'workplace' violence 'crimes' are exploding all over the US too.
Cause and effect.
December 2, 2012 – 9:35 pm
I don't think God really cares.. America is just a flash in the pan.
Like Rome, and many other nations before it....
Anyone here, other than me, been touched by the Flying Spaghetti Monster's Noodly Appendage? As a converted Pastafarian, I remain shocked at the general stupidity of CNN readers
Must be a Fox man.
I think someone has been touching you with their noodley appendage.
Lets be realistic... God is not really that good with Economics... He couldn't keep Babylon together... He had 1% on top served by the 99% during the time of his chosen one Hamurapi... Well guess what? It crashed! Today this is still going on... Did God learn? No... Look at what is going on now! God really needs to look in the mirror and reflect on his actions... Many people need him to start being a Father and caring for the lives of the people here in Humanity and stop walking around the planet calling himself the "King of the Universe", the "Creator of the Universe", or the "Creator of the Heavens and Earth".... Kids grow up and realize Santa Clause isn't real !!! Well... God needs to realize His place is being a Father to Humanity, and he lives in the Milky Way... And She Can Kick His Ass... So be a Father!
God created everything and gave it to us to maintain, including economics. God even gave the guidelines by which you can maintain it. But we do not honor his word on everything including how to treat each other. Babylon fell by man'd doing not God's. He is being a father when he keeps us from totally destroying yourself even when we are hell bent on it.
You lost me by bringing the bible into the equation. Remember the phrase "my kingdom is not of this world". Look folks, we the people along with our representatives have to make decisions about running this country. God could care less about our puny political facts of life.
So, here's my two cents. We're wasting time on who should pay what. It gives fuel to CNN to churn over and over to fill 24 hours of "news". Work in stages. Grant a permanent Bush era tax cut to the 98% and increase the tax on the last 2% by 1/2 of what Obama wants. Then subtract the most agregious deductions to those same 2%. Meanwhile continue with a half billion cut towards the great military industrial trough.
Begin in 2013 a one year effort to change the way we tax to either a value added tax or better yet, a flat tax of 10%. Start looking for government waste in all sectors where the government is involved. Remove all the depreciation allowances for oil and gas. Add a carbon tax effective 2015 including a carbon tax on any item imported by this country. Make it illegal to use the phrase "clean coal technology. It doesn't exist. A carbon tax helps level the international playing field. Reduce what are considered small items significantly. This would include the huge slice of the UN budget paid by our nation. Let the UN decide how to replace those funds within its other members. I could type all night. Let me end with requiring all US leaders to show their W2s so we can see what they earn every year over their salaries. Make it illegal for any US citizen to hide money off shore. Make PACs illegal. The billions spent on the last election is sinful but there I go again bringing a bibilical term into the equation.
I am sure I lost you by bringing the Bible into the equation. However the title of the article is WWJD about Taxes. There is no way to answer that without a Biblical perspective. How do you know anything about Christ without the Bible?
10% tithe was a "flat tax" that was commanded by God from 11 tribes to support the Levites who were the tribe that did not own the livestock or grew crops and other means of income because they were totally dedicated to the duties of maintaining the temple, temple duties and direction of worship. Remember that although any model that God set forth would be very good for any people this was a specific command that was given to the Israelites for specific purposes and should not be seen as a requirement for the Gentiles nations that existed at that time and to come. As far as "If a man does not choose to work, neither shall he eat." But do you ever remember reading in the Bible where Christ commanded his followers in general to make that judgement and enforce that precept? This is very true in that the natural consequence of laziness will lead to many of the issues that a lot of the "have nots" in todays society have, but not every man that "has not" is lazy and not every wealthy man has come into his/hers by hard work and/or by righteousness. Every TRUE Christian should consider what he has as a blessing by and from God who owns it all anyway and chooses by His wisdom and grace on whom it is given apart from the persons "hard work". There is no way to approach God without taking your pride out of the equation. That being said the Bible also say "To whom much has been GIVEN much is required.
Mark Twain: "There are lies, damn lies and statistics." Obama pulled the "$2,000 Tax Hike" rabbit out of the Massachusetts hat. That hike is based on the mean Middle Class income of $86,000 calculated for Gov. Deval Patrick's Commonwealth Middle Class. How many households across the U.S. bring in above $85,000? Yes, the poor disenfranchized made Obama their champion - and Obama tried to champion the cause of those in Massachusetts who make over $85,000 for the sake of a "very close intimate friend" and Governor. So keep typing in "MY2K" for the suffering Massachusetts Middle Class - and make your Obama and Deval Patrick smile up in the W.H. luxury suite again.
I invite everyone to read Genesis 41:35,36 and you might want to read more to understand the context. I realize its OT, but we can still learn from it
funny.. the book of Exodus is long before the time of Jesus...
"...before Abraham was, I am." -Jesus (John 8:58)
A better question would be "What Would Flying Spaghetti Monster do"?
Yes, exactly.
Or what would Xenu, the Galactic Overlord do? Ask this question of all the tax exempt imaginary thingys.
Maybe we should just wait for trillions of dollars to be created out of a loud noise. then our problems will be solved.
"Feed the hungry, clothe the poor, heal the sick. Lift up thy brother in time of need."
Doesn't sound much like the Republican's "every man for himself" coward's creed, does it?
Jesus was concerned that individual people cared about the poor. He didn't really make a statement on whether that care should take the form of government assistance or private charity. I prefer private charity because I think our government is a model of inefficiency, and most money directed towards the poor ends up in the pockets of politicians. Private charities have a much better record of making sure the poor actually get the money that is intended for them.
As usual, liberals take commands that are intended for individuals to fulfill and obey and shift that responsibility into the hands of corrupt politicians and bureaucrats. It makes them feel better about themselves while they are sitting on the couch eating Cheetos and watching Oprah.
References in Chapter 30, please? Can we please quit quote the scriptures without citing them?
Use the internet to look something up. It's why I told Al to invent it.
I read people going back and forth on this topic and I have to say its ridiculous.Spirituality is within and people have no right to speak for Jesus.This whole story is out of place.What happened to separation between church and state? Religion and Government are separate for a reason.
So individual Christians have no right to speak on matters of economics? Please throw your left-wing college liberal indoctrination degree in the trash, think for yourself, and read the Constitution while you are at it.
Actually, Matthew 16:18 says that Christ gave Peter the authority to "bind and loose" and the power of the "keys to the kingdom." He also left the apostles the power to forgive or retain sins in John 20:19-23. These powers and authority reside with the Catholic Church, the Church Christ founded on Peter. You should make a valid confession before you die.
Give to Ceasar what is Ceasars.
Pizza pizza?
Son, That is NOT Funny... Now Go Smack your Mama.
My new stepdad Joseph said he was going to buy me a bike.... I hate you.
That is exactly what Jesus said about taxes when he was asked about them. Pay Caesars things to Caesar. This article shows how little the author knows about the Bible. Anything else is pure speculation.
It doesn't matter what Jesus would do, because he's a fictitious character with an allegorical name which means "savior." Please read Ellegard, Ehrman, Loftus, Carrier, Price, Crossan, Borg, Mack, Pagels, Funk, Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, Sanders, Wells, Vermes and Levine, as I have.
It doesn't matter what it says in the Bible about taxes (or anything else for that matter), because the Bible is a collection of Bronze Age religious/cultural documents from another country that precede the Scientific Age by more than 20 centuries. (!)
End of discussion.
Science and Reason. Not hocus and pocus.
People who speak and write more eloquently then you have ben trying to deny the existence of God for centuries, but have failed. There's a scripture which says "heaven and earth will pass away, but my word will never pass away".....just simple fact unlike the theory of evolution :)
They failed because sheep follow each other in blind faith.
Thou knoweth not the difference between hypothesis and theory. Step thee off any tall building for thou art blind to the theory of gravity.
By definition, science only capable of examining our natural world. You're trying to make science give you answers to questions that are out of it's realm. There are a lot of questions that science isn't capable of answering, and the existence of God is just one of them.
But science is his religion, and he must hold steadfastly to its doctrines. Heresy (actual thought) is not allowed in the cult of scientism.
Sorry, Buckwheat, you've gotten it backwards. In science, it is about discovery and understanding by posing a hypothesis and testing through repeatable experimentation, refining said hypothesis until what is expected is what is seen. Put forth the hypothesis before your peers for review and further experimentation until, once verified as the probable (to 99.9%) answer, the hypothesis is considered theory. So free thought is not only desired in science (and math as well) but REQUIRED. Religion, on the other hand, requires one to not think but to accept, blindly, what you're told, what you read, what yu hear from other like minded individuals. DO NOT GET ME WRONG HERE. To each their own; I'm not a believer but I'm not so stupid or close minded as to tell others not to do whatever they feel comfortable with ... just stop shoving your beliefs down my throat. Nobody will know the truth until the moment they die, regardless of which side of the fence they're on.
No serious person denies the historical existence of Jesus. Many challenge His divinity, as is their right. But there are entirely too many historical documents, works of art, our very calendar even, to deny that the man Jesus lived.
Actually, this is not true. Did you know that there are no historians of Jesus' time that wrote a single word about him? His only "proof of existence" is the Bible... which is not proof. There are plenty of figures in the past that didn not truly exist. That's like saying 1000 years from now Spiderman existed because someone found a comic book.
Why is the titled 'WWJD' when it concentrates on OT law?
Jesus, as he was imagined and inserted in human history (after the First Revolt in 70 CE and throughout the early 2nd Century CE) supposedly practiced Judaism, not Christianity. Hence the OT. That would have been his Bible. The NT did not exist in his imaginary lifetime, which supposedly would have been sometime between 8 BCE (when Herod the Great was still alive) and 36 CE the final year that Joseph Caiaphas and Pontius Pilate served together as High Priest and Roman Prefect.
Because the author is clueless about what the Bible actually says/teaches. Must be a Born Again (make pretend) preacher.
OBAMA/PATRICK: Listen to George Michael sing "Older" - All those Massachusetts Middle Income people who turned their anxious eyes to you - the State Drug Lab - Oz Prison Lovers - You are almost "out of time."
If I go to the store and buy a chocolate bar and decide to share my chocolate with someone; should I give 3/4 of my bar to the other person so that he too can share half? Why would anyone want to pay for something to get less? That's what's happening in manufacturing and small businesses. Why or how do you hire more people than you can afford. You have to tax the same or no one get's anything. (I sure hope that made sense)
Imagine I make ten dollars a day and you make one hundred dollars a day and the tax rate is a flat forty percent... At the end of the day, I have six dollars to spend toward my family. You have sixty. Now keep complaining about your sixty dollars while I struggle to feed and clothe my family.
At the end of the day, I have paid 40 dollars in taxes and you have paid 4. I have paid 10 times more toward maintaining our govenrment and services. However, with the current system, if you make 10 dollars and I make 100, you pay zero and I pay 35. It wouild be more polite to simply say thank you, than to ask me to pay 50.
Bill, well said. And all of that before we even take a look at what the government does with your 35 dollars, which is to waste about 25 dollars of it through fraud and waste, and to distribute to others, some in need, some feigning need.
In the parable of the talents, each did not receive the same amount. The one who had the most made the most profit and inherited the most kingdoms. The one who had the least had even what he had taken away from him.
Very poor logic since the talents had nothing to do with taxes which is what this article is about.
WWJD? Jesus was a very nuanced man, but this one bears repeating;
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Why? Because for most (not all) money is their god and they refuse to bow the knee to their creator and instead find security in their status and cash. But this is not relevant to the argument at hand. In the case of many bloggers here, the state is their god and he must be appeased by a steady inflow of other people's money.
Jesus would tell Obama to sign the GOP budget proposal into law tomorrow, then focus on helping his people - the ones who voted for him -find good jobs as promised before re-election. CNN will monitor the monthly unemployment rates by STATE AND RACE for you - to praise you for the progress, and punish you for deceitful failure. Your people will punish you if you fail to keep your promise. Massachusetts will punish your "close intimate friend" Deval Patrick for neglecting the State drug Lab crisis - many let free from state prison - Oz Prison Lovers - while Boston Hot Lips campaigned for you. He expected you to deliver for his Massachusetts Middle Income peoples in return. You were suppose to get Congress to sign the Middle Class Tax Cuts before the end of the first week after re-election. Massachusetts works so hard for you right? Do you remember how hard Massachusetts worked for you Obama? Do you? The House and Commonwealth GOP remembers how hard they worked for you also, poo poo.
Hmm? You think the man who fed the hungry, healed the sick, clothed the naked, comforted the poor, championed the meek and urged the rich to abandon their wealth, would urge the adoption of a budget that protects the rich and the military at the expense of the poor and sick? And you think you're fit to speak as to what he would do?
Jesus also believed in earning your keep and working for a living. All of his disciples as well as ealy missionaries such as Paul earned their keep even while traveling to spread the gospel
You know what the difference between you liberals and Jesus is? He healed the sick, fed the hungry, clothed the poor HIMSELF rather than FORCING others to do all of that work and then making them pay higher taxes to do so through COERCION.Because God gives man FREE WILL to choose to feed the hungry, clothe the poor, heal the sick, unlike you fakers who want to FORCE others to do it...GET IT.
Tom, didn't you just do the exact same thing you criticized the other guy for? By saying 'You think Jesus would do that, and you think you have the right to speak for him?' you're essentially trying to speak for Jesus yourself by saying he would do something different.
I will tell you what I would do about taxes. First I would remind the rich that they will not be entering into heaven. Its just not going to happen. As I have said before, you have a better chance getting a camel through the eye of a needle. Nothing personal. Its just the cost of material excess.
Then I would make good on my promise to kill everyone on Earth, bring the ones who feed my ego to paradise and leave the rest of you to suffer eternally.
Hey, that's my name! Now THERE's a problem I didn't foresee when I invented the world's first and only religion. Just any old person with a stone and chisel, quill and parchment, or keyboard, can speak in my name. -Classic Jesus
your statement confuses me.. Christianity was not the first religion.. in fact monotheism is a late entry in the collection of religious doctrines humans have placed belief in.
It was sarcasm, bud. No one ever gets all the sarcasm I put in that book...
A flat rate of tax sounds fair for the 100 percent of Americans if you earn 30k 250k or over 1 million thats is what the bible says doesnt it,so why does the 47 percent who pay none or next to noting create a mandate for the president to increase taxes on the people already paying taxes. So are the 47 percent who dont pay tax are they exempt of tithing ? to God i think not !
MA Gov Deval Patrick must be foaming out of his mouth right about now - the Commonwealth GOP and Middle-Income citizenry kicking his sorry black butt for not making Obama come through for them despite intense promise. Yes, Deval stomped all over - east to west - demonizing Romney in support of his "very iclose and intimate" friend. Lesson learned, Boston Hot Lips: never make promises a powerful GOP will not let you keep. Just keep sweating it out, little boo boo.
"And see, this is what happens when people look for morality in religion instead of their own conscience. Stop trying to use my book to justify being an a-hole." -Me (previously unpublished)
And by the way, we're no longer led by the Old Testament. Our Lord died on the cross to bring us to the New Covenant. Barry is right - if you're going to follow the Old Testament you need to call yourself an Orthodox Jew or some kind of Jew, and start fulfilling every tittle of The Old Law.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Not a single clue. Read up on your religion and the religion that Jesus supposedly practiced.
So you are saying there are no principles in the OT that can help look at this topic from a Biblical perspective? Your Pastor (if you even go to a church) is not serving you well. That, or you are not listening well.
The Jewish Pharisees tried to trap Jesus by asking if it was "lawful" to pay taxes. Jesus held a coin to their faces in front of the crowd and asked, "Whose face is on this coin?" They all shouted CAESAR! "Therefore, pay back to Caesar what is Caesar's, and render to Jehovah God's what is Jehovah God's." The Pharisees walked away mumbling, waiting for another day. That said, CNN should stay out of the economic forecast, much like it should the election prediction, business for now. Way too many unpredictable variables. The added effect of Obamacare and load on State and Local governments because of decreased federal revenue. Unemployment has its costs, including lower tax base up, down and all around. Let CNN do something more useful the next few months: monitor unemployment rates by STATE and RACE to see how well "Obama Mouth" translates into expected action for those who voted for him: the lower-to-middle income minorities. CNN does not even have to do THAT - unless those people are total blind idiots, they will let their voices be heard loud enough. All we can do at this point is "wait and see."
Lance, when Jesus was imagined to be a real historical person, and those words were placed on his lips, it was understood that what he meant was: "Pay Rome absolutely nothing. Rome is not entitled to even a grain of sand of this Holy Land! Nothing in Palestine belongs to Caesar! So pay him his due. Nothing!" And that, my friend, buys you a specially designed post (and perhaps two, or maybe four nails) outside the city gate, no questions asked. Read about your religion and the religion that Jesus was said to practice.
"it was understood that what he meant"........by you only.
I would think that if the grand, ultimate, supreme, omnipotent, omniscient god of the universe meant "never" he would have said "never"
There will be no cation until Republicans stop blocking action. If they think his policies are so bad, they only need to pass them all and it will assure a Republican president is reelected in four years, right? Maybe they are afraid his policies might work........
Or they are afraid his policies will speed up our already rapid descent.
"You lack one thing; go, sell what you own, and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; then come, follow me." -Me
WWhat does this have to do with voting for increased taxes?
The above article is about how people should pay a flat tax because it could be interpreted that the Bible recommends it. I say the Bible FLAT OUT SAYS that the rich should give all they have to the poor if they want to go to heaven.
That's what it has to do with it.
I was raised by protestant missionary parents, I graduated magna cum laude with a bachelors in theology before I went out into the world and promptly realized that christianity was wacked. That said, my only response to your portrayal of Jesus is AMEN.
@curious....would say you were trying to live by rules not following Christ. I started reading the Bible to prove God didn't exist.........it radically changed my life.
Jesus is on point here.. Give to the poor not to government. One of the big mistakes we are all making here is believing the way to give to the poor is to give to the government so they can give to the poor. but the US government is not a charity... If it is it is a horrible one.
We should give until it hurts but not to government.
But to answers the question WWJD? He would walk along side you and die for your sake. Go and do likewise
I say that you're richer than me. Give me your stuff.
"Then the king will say to those at his right hand, "Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me." -Me
This is a very interesting post. I haven't read them all, but I did notice the post about the rich man from the Gospel of Luke. A key verse that Anonymous omitted from Luke 12:48: "From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked." I think that's self explanatory.
The reason we have unions and entitlements today is because the haves have historically refused to help the have nots. As a fundamentalist Christian, I am at a loss to respond to my brothers and sisters who so jealously guard their mammon, when they know that should not be there priority. What about love (the greatest commandment of all)? What about Charity? What about visiting the sick and imprisoned? I'm afraid those of us who are trying to keep taxes low so we can fill our barns with wealth will have some hard questions to answer on the Day of Judgment. It's time we think for ourselves and realize that neither political party will help us serve our Lord.
Paraphrasing: "My concern is not whether God is on my side. My greatest concern is to be on God's side." –Abraham Lincoln
Dont forget the verse about if you don't work you don't eat.
So we let the elderly and disabled starve?
please tell us, where is that verse? Is that in the GOP translation?
2 Thessalonians 3:9-11 "We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you to imitate. 10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat."11 We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies."
Independent Minded: The fundamental flaw with the argument is the BIG assumption that additional taxes will mean the government will give more to the poor (perfect noble lie!). . vs. creating a bigger government, that costs more money to run. Based on a recent Huffington Post survey http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/20/study-less-religious-stat_n_1810425.html, more religious states (typically in the South) have been giving more to charity, miraculously without the assistance of a bigger government.
Those liberal states in the northeast? They also have the lowest poverty rates in the nation, thus they have less to give to. Those states that give the most, the very conservative Alabama, Miss., Tenn., and S. Carolina (with the exception of Utah), have some of the HIGHEST poverty rates.
Not surprisingly, the education stats follow almost exactly the same pattern...
In that same passage you quoted earlier, in Matt 19:16-17, Jesus first instructed the rich man to keep his commandments. "Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?" "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments." See Deuteronomy 5:11 "You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name."
And, based on 2009 poverty statistics, New York and Maine were both below the national U.S. poverty rate of 12.6%.
Of course you fail to mention those same states who have the least poverty are totally broke. Guess you can be well educated and a fool .....which seems to be the norm for so many of the enlightened sates such as California, Illinois etc.
"You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name."
Oh, *I* don't believe any of that BS, but if you're going to base YOUR life on it you should probably go by those much touted red letters instead of making it up as you go along.
Jesus would kick every able bodied person on disability out into the street and admonish them about being lazy.. He believed in helping those that were truly in need of help and truly poor through no fault of their own.. Its no crime to be poor, it is one to continue being poor with no effort to get out of poverty.. Too many Americans just stay poor because its simply easier and they get some assistance from the government.. What liberals have done to our society is NOT biblical in any way, fashion or form.. Jesus would be a benevolent Republican. One who took care of his money but found ways to assist the poor OUTSIDE of government.
"Benevolent Republican" is an oxymoron; you, however, are just a moron.
Jesus sounds like a terrible person. Why do you follow him?
please tell me in the bible where it said that Jesus had any money to take care of.
Jesus and disciples must have had some finances as Judas was in charge of the money.....try reading the good book:)
Yeah, that's right. All these little kids, seniors and people with disabilities just sitting around really bugs me. lol
It's WWJD, not WWYD. I think that show is on ABC friday evenings..
"but found ways to assist the poor OUTSIDE of government."
But that's the problem. You right thinking Christians™ don't give to the poor at all. Perhaps a few scraps from the table after you've taken very good care of your selves. But America is the richest country in the word and 80% of Americans are Christian. So if just half the Christians gave just half as much as you like to pretend they do. There wouldn't be a single hungry, ragged or homeless person left in America
Well, if we're serious about doing things by the book, then we had better start planning for our Year of Jubilee, the year that came once every 49 years, where any and all debts owed to anyone were completely erased.
Hear hear!!! But I thought the year of Jubilee was every 7 years?
50 my friend.....typical response when getting people who know just parts of scripture and no context
Amen, Brother Barry.


text:
One hit of a snare drum appears courtesy Brazilian drummer Waldir G.
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text:
A bill that would shut down Internet cafes in Florida passed in the House and is being considered in the Senate this week.
"I'm entitled to spend my money the way I want to spend it," said Ed Horner, who drives his golf cart to Palms Internet Cafe in Ocala six times a week.
"This is entertainment, with discretionary money that I can spend rather than leave it to my kids so they can have fun. I'm having fun," said Horner.
People there told Local 6 they visit the cafe to socialize, have fun and occasionally win a few dollars.
"What else can we do? I can't go put on a bathing suit and go down in the beach and stroll around," said JoAnn Hinderliter, of Dunnellon.
State Representative Dennis Baxley co-sponsored the bill, which passed in the House on Friday. He said Internet cafes are preying on people with gambling addictions.
"If you don't limit gaming to specific locations and you put it right there at them on every street corner, they will be in poverty, and we will have to deal with the social cost of that," said Baxley.
Baxley points to the corruption that shut down Allied Veterans of the World cafes across the state.
"We certainly follow the rules and we shouldn't be penalized because one person didn't follow correctly," said Felicia Burbank, manager of Palms Internet Cafe.
Horner said he's hoping Governor Rick Scott will not sign the bill into law.
"Number one, we won't vote for him again, that's for sure, and, secondly, he's taking enjoyment from people that I don't think he's entitled to do," said Horner.