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When you're looking for a firm to help you get out of debt, don't rely on an Internet search.By Laura CohnFrom Kiplinger's Personal Finance magazine, May 2009
When Lanette Bridges set out to tackle her massive pile of debt -- $30,000 in credit-card bills and bank loans -- a couple of years ago, she turned to the Internet first. Bridges typed "credit-counseling services" into an online search engine to find an agency that would help her pay it off. Bridges, an assistant teacher at a child-care center in Imperial, Mo., found an agency that promised to withdraw money every month from her bank account to repay her creditors. She signed up.
Several months later, Bridges was still getting calls from her creditors. When she contacted the agency, she was told not to worry. But she checked her balances with her creditors anyway -- and saw that her debt hadn't decreased.
At that point, a friend recommended she call ClearPoint Financial Solutions, another agency. This time, she checked with the Better Business Bureau to make sure ClearPoint was legit. It was. A ClearPoint counselor was able to talk to her creditors, explain what happened and work out a payment plan. But Bridges still lost the more than $2,000 the bogus firm withdrew from her checking account.
With consumer debt at sky-high levels, such stories are becoming all too common. Two prevalent schemes involve companies that claim to be credit-counseling agencies and firms that say they are "debt settlement" organizations. A legitimate credit-counseling agency will educate you about budgeting and how to use credit, as well as help you set up a debt-management plan if you need one. A debt-settlement firm merely offers to negotiate with your creditors. But bogus companies take your money and run.
Since 2001, the Federal Trade Commission has sued 14 firms that claimed to be credit-counseling agencies or debt-settlement firms but allegedly were neither. Last fall, as a result of one of the suits, a record $12.7 million was returned to 287,000 victims.
In a related scam, often hawked in radio ads, firms claim to be able to "repair" your credit record or make your credit score go up virtually overnight. "Steer clear of a credit-repair firm that claims it can take accurate, negative information off your credit report," says Lynne Strang, vice-president of the American Financial Services Association, the trade association for the consumer credit industry. "They can't." If your credit score has been hurt by inaccurate information, you can alert the credit-reporting agency on your own.
Is it legit? Once you get in the door, ask about fees. If the credit counselor won't talk about what the agency charges, walk away. According to the National Foundation for Credit Counseling, the initial counseling session should be free or cost very little -- $15 or so. If, after a 60- to 90-minute initial consultation, you sign up for a one-time debt-management plan, the average fee is $28. If you enter an extended debt-management program, you may end up paying about $23 a month.
If the agency tells you to stop paying your creditors, that's a bad sign -- if you stop paying your bills, that puts your credit rating at risk.
Also beware of agencies that pressure you to sign up for a debt-management program. Some agencies focus on such programs because they're paid by the creditors to sign up clients.
EDITOR'S NOTE: This article was originally published in the July 2010 issue of Kiplinger's Retirement Report.
OUR READERWho: Bill Segur, 60Where: Wilmington, N.C.Question: I've finally paid off my mortgage. What should I do with the extra cash?
Now that they've paid off their home loan early, Bill is wondering how he and his wife, Susan, should use the extra $600 a month. Bill is a registered nurse at a hospital and hopes to retire in a few years. He wants to maximize what he and Susan (also an RN) are socking away while they're still working. So their focus is on adding to their savings kitty.
Bill and Susan, 54, figure they have three options. They can increase their contributions to their 403(b) and 401(k) retirement plans, add more to their established traditional IRAs, or start up Roth IRAs. Bill appreciates the tax advantages of a Roth. Although there is no upfront tax break, all withdrawals, including investment earnings, are tax-free once you are 59 1/2 and the account has been open at least five years.
But Bill wonders whether it makes sense for him and Susan to open Roths at their age. "At this late date in our work experiences, do we start new Roth IRAs or add to our traditional accounts?" he asks. The couple have an adequate emergency savings fund and little debt, so they can comfortably bulk up their retirement assets.
Carlo Panaccione, a financial planner in Redwood City, Cal., says that Bill and Susan should pat themselves on the back for paying off their mortgage and committing to put the money toward savings rather than going on a spending spree. "People always say: "If I have money left at the end of the year, I'll save it,'" says Panaccione. "It never happens." Instead, he says, household budgets simply tend to expand whenever a family has money to spare.
Tax advantages. So, to answer Bill's question directly: It's not too late to start a Roth IRA. Because both Bill and Susan are older than 50 and their joint income is less than $167,000, each of them can contribute the maximum $6,000 (including $1,000 in catch-up contributions) to a Roth in 2010.
No matter how long you maintain the retirement account, the tax benefits of a Roth are simply too good to pass up. When you withdraw money from a 401(k) or a regular IRA, it's taxed at your ordinary income-tax rate. With a Roth, you can withdraw cash in retirement without paying Uncle Sam a penny.
And once Bill and Susan retire, they won't need to tap their Roth IRAs right away, given their modest living expenses, their income from workplace retirement plans and Social Security. Because Roths have no required-minimum-distribution rules, you can leave the investments in place as long as you like. "That money can just sit there and cook," says Larry Rosenthal, a financial planner in Manassas, Va. With income-tax rates likely to rise to offset growing budget deficits, the Roth stands out as an increasingly valuable tax shelter. In other words, it's a good way for the couple to diversify their future tax liability.
Roth accounts could also prove helpful to Bill and Susan's estate planning. They can leave the accounts to their two daughters, who would inherit them tax-free.
These securities help add diversity to your portfolio and control risk. But they can be complicated.August 2007Bonds sound boring, but they're not. Nor are they a nice safe haven for rich and retired folks who never want to lose money. They have a role to play in your investment plan for several important reasons.
First, bonds aren't stocks. Well-selected stocks tend to go up over the long run. But in the short run they can go down, sometimes through no fault of their own. And the very same kinds of things that depress stock prices, such as a recession or sluggish business conditions, tend to boost bond prices. This makes them ideal for diversifying and thus controlling your investment risks.
Second, bonds usually produce a steady stream of income you can reinvest or use for living expenses. The price may go up or down, but barring default on the part of the issuer, the income from a bond remains the same. Plus, municipal bonds can generate tax-free income.
This series is adapted from Kiplinger's Practical Guide to Your Money, by the Editors of Kiplinger's Personal Finance magazine (Kaplan Publishing. Copyright 2005 The Kiplinger Washington Editors, Inc.) Available wherever books are sold or direct at kiplinger.com/store/books.

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It's interesting to note in listening to this audio of the conversation between JFK and Dillion, his Treasury Secty, that Dillion says he didn't know Juan Tripp was buying Concordes. He continues this responses to JFK. But then JFK says the AP wire reports Tripp is buying. Then all of a sudden the Treasury Secty tells Kennedy Tripp isn't buying the Concordes, but rather options. JFK then says, "that's not what the AP wire report says...as JFK reads". Doug Dillion then replies that the AP wire is incorrect.......that he read the contract last week. Tripp merely placed options to buy. Wait a minute........earlier in the audio he said he didn't know about Tripp and Pan Am annoucing an option to buy 6 Concordes. Bottomline, the Secty did have knowledge. he lied. I see nothing has changed in Washington from 1963 to today. Bureaucrats can't tell the truth if their life depended on it.
One of the chief jobs of any subordinate is to keep the boss from being blindsided. Dillon failed miserably. Kennedy was probably more upset at reading it in the paper first. What is not on the recording is that he probably came to the same conclusion you did about Dillon, in that he was lying.
Correct preacher1. I believe they also call it "plausble deniability".
ROGO Plausible Deni ability means Unelected Officials Making Decisions that are not theirs to make. Inevitably they are always are controversial enough to keep from the men they serve, and from the people they effect. The punishment for this crap of "slapping of the hand" doesn't prevent it from repeatedly occurring either... is also an insult. At some Point..when a Leader, regardless of who he is or the Office he holds, has this Occur multiple times..it speaks poorly for their leadership style, and points to corruption within their ranks for their subordinates to act thinking this is what their leader REALLY wants. These ideas come from somewhere, and when it happens so many times it becomes a JOKE, people need to take a serious look at the agenda that is being pushed whether it is being Ordered from top down or nay...either way it is usually getting done either way.
Hear, hear!
I find it a little distressing so many of the postings on this aviation based forum seem to be as naive about the airline business, as Kennedy was showing himself to be. Any posting about Viet Nam is a red herring, at the time of this call, it was already a historical inevitability due to errors in foreign policy ever since WWII, JFK was only one player. This sequence of events (before after and during, yet all related to the development and demise of the Boeing 2707 program) had some significant Washington contributors, but was at it's core, a continuation of the dual to the death mentality between Juan Tripp, Howard Hughes, C.R.Smith, and Eddie Rickenbacker (Sorry guys I know picking on war heros is taboo. If it is any comfort I went to Viet Nam wearing crew wings). Those four men, set in stone a style and domain for airline competition, that has done grave damage to the airline industry, the aircraft manufacturing industry, and the public safety. Washington and the defense industry were all too eager to help, but the four horsemen of the airlines did it to themselves. Kennedy can rant all he wants, Juan was not paying attention. His focus at that time was on beating back C.R.Smith, finishing off Howard Hughes, and keeping Eddie in retirement. He firmly believed owning the fastest scheduled airliners in existence was the formula.
That is an incredibly astute and accurate summation. When I was a teen, I checked out books at the library about the pioneers. It was business. It was competition. That's it.
On a related note, CR Smith desperately wanted the land that AA's flight academy and training center is now on off of FAA Road and Hwy 360. The owner of the land would never sell, despite CR's price. He put the land on the table as a poker bet. CR won :-)
You're exactly right. Business IS business & EVERY TIME the gov gets it's camel nose under the tent, it's a spoil!
DOPE, Capitalism is an Unknown Ideal. The 'business' you so staunchly idolize, is not, nor has it ever been, true capitalism. The camel nose under the tent began well before Chicago and New York were linked by rail (Oh, you don't read history, [read?, hell you don't even Google history], I am referring to the period between 1830 and 1850. The Pennsylvania RR published their first formal routes Chi-NYC in late Jan 1853). We live in a 'mixed' economy. So put your hand back in your pants and keep your rants to your self, unless your are willing to educate yourself first.
Look at the amount of LAND that was GIVEN to each of these RR's for each mile of track set down AFTER that period. Look at how some companies took clear advantage by charging the gov't for mountain tracks that were laid down in valleys. Nothing has changed. It's still all bribes & kick backs and the company with with the best lobby wins because that's the way our 'leaders' want it. However, with the invention of prohibition, we got a nice hefty personal income tax that we ALL have to pay whether we want to or not to fund these projects for the 'common good' even if they result in mass murder. Ever run into a Poor politician?
Look at what our GOV't did to the native peoples of this country & to the Chinese immigrants that were there long before Yankees by the thousands started heading West & tell me that gov't is good.
Why don't you head over to the VA & see the effects of AGENT ORANGE on men your age.
What YOU fail to understand is that government is supposed to be an UNbiased ARBITRATOR when it comes to free enterprise. Not a 'mixed economy' as you put it. But by adopting a the handle of Skylab, it looks as if you say that it's OK if gov't is IN the competition. No company can compete with an entity that has the Federal Reserve printing money faster than they can spend it. How much of YOUR paycheck goes to MEN hauling garbage into space?
If you want to talk history, you might look to Rome to see that too many ticks on a dog will kill the dog & that's the the state this country is in now. Realize that we now have a Hungarian man behind the green curtain and there's nothing you or I can do about it.
And your Skylab, Shuttle, & most of all the STANDING ARMY that George Washington ranted so much against is one of the reasons this country is in the state it's in.
Baby boomers your age that retire on the backs of young people paying into a SS Ponzi scheme that makes Madoff look like Mother Teresa is yet another example.
As far as my rants, maybe YOU need to take off your rose colored gov't issued sunglasses & realize that what you're really seeing is not factual history but the insides of your own colon.
Well still the DOPE, I see.
You have a talent of spouting random points, but lack the intellect to tie them into a coherent idea.
Paragraph#1 You have no idea what I said, nor do you understand that much of this paragraph supports my point.
Paragraph#2 I have heard this before. What is your point? Do you expect me to defend govt as it is?
Paragraph#3 Been there. Done that. Got the pictures. The VA is my health care provider of choice.
Paragraph# 4 What you fail to understand, is that the govt is NOT what you think it is 'supposed to be'. There exists no UNbiased ARBITRATOR, especially when it comes to free enterprise. I would suggest the reality of our govt might be better described as a modestly biased arbitrator of the status quo. You may not like it, but the economic system under which you live is more accurately described as a mixed economy, your preferences do not change facts.
By adopting the handle Skylab on an aviation forum I signal my pride in having been a member of the Skylab Mission Team from beginning to end. In 1971, when I joined the space program, there was no private enterprise alternative. I would have happily gone to work for Space-X or anyone else working on leaving earth. But I was employed by a govt contractor and was delighted to be part of the team sending men to the moon. When the Apollo Program was canceled, I was similarly happy to assist in the support of mankind's first space station. To this day, I greatly value both the experience, and the accomplishment. "The earth is the cradle of a mind, but one cannot live forever in a cradle." Tsiolkovsky >You got garbage you want hauled in space? I'm your man, resource reclamation and operational sustainability are my watch words.<
Paragraph#5 I am familiar with the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, it is a bitch being part of an empire in decline. What's your point? Got a remedy? How will it work?
Paragraph#6 govt spending seems to upset you. Have any solutions?
Paragraph#7 Aw, you break my heart. What makes you think I will ever get out of the "SS ponzi scheme" any more than I put into it? Again what are you going to DO about it?
Paragraph#8 Personal attack is the last resort of a weak mind. I know full well when I am looking at my own colon. Because of that, I know mine is currently free of polyps. Thank you for not asking.
It is my opinion that you have not understood anything I have said, you have no idea to what degree I may disagree or agree with your talking points, and that there is no point in my indulging you by allowing you to waste any more of my time. It is unlikely I will read your posts going forward, and you will have to get a lot smarter before I would be tempted to respond.
My sincerest apologies to the rest of the forum for this aberration, I know better. For my opinion on Kennedy's rant see my other posts… :}
Was it really that big of a deal? They make it sound like it was the end of the world.
Kind of, see John Clark post below, JFK made good on his threat in various ways, and by the time Airline Deregulation occurred AA was the only one of the original big four, (Eastern, TWA, PanAm, and American) able to survive that turmoil in addition to the jet transition. Had Juan understood JFK's commitment to US aviation technology, and or had he gotten over the speed-race mentality, PanAm might have lasted longer. One cannot lay blame for the 2707 demise at Juan's feet, but he played a part. The real issue was/is physics vs economics. Is it worth the extra cost to travel some given amount faster. I always wondered why given the money, risk and effort Tripp was willing to put into the SST concept, why he did not buy a few Republic Rainbow aircraft in the early post war years.
Airline operations were very different back then. Prior to the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978, there was no "free market" for US airlines operating on international routes. Fares, routes and schedules were set by the government and at that time, international jet travel was still in it's infancy. To have (what was essentially) a US Flag carrier order the ultimate in jet technology from Europeans was shocking. But I believe Tripp was leveraging his position to get a bargain deal on the Boeing SST's by having options in the Concorde production firing order. He was sending a shot across the bow by sending a press release that left out a few important facts. Tripp knew how to manipulate the media and tweak the noses of people that stood in his way.
How do we stop out sourcing. The answer is very very simple if and when the people of the USA will force the pooiticians, to create laws that would punish the outsoucing company. Just because something is overseas with an American business name label it does not make it an American product................. TAX THE HELL OUT of off shore made products regardless what the labels are in it, on it. Problem solved.
And who will pay this tax? We will, the consumer. SOP is to pass along any added expenses to the consumer. Best bet is to yank every tax shelter and special deal they have out from under them. Start sending inspectors in to examine everything from tax returns to equipment to environmental damages.
As it seems most thing made in the world including America come from China America would be taxing itself!
Can't stop outsourcing until you BUST CORRUPT UNIONS! Labor costs are too high in this country. We've priced ourselves out of millions of jobs. Now $17T debt. Game over unless something drastic happens.
This will be the only response I make to you. I'm sick of talking to people like you. I do not find you to be very well read and not at all personally remotely honest in your evaluations of people, history. And that's the real reason why I'm not to going to respond in the future. You seem to a person who reads with a slant to your views. You don't seem to be interested in truth as much as you are interested in interpreting things to support your preconceived positions. You make up, make up, that is: produce out of thin air, sweeping generalities and try to pass them off as truth. In other words, you are not reliable in these instances. So this is it. Whether you respond or not, we're through.
Your opening statement contained errors, and far as I can tell, lies throughout. Here are just some examples;
Your statement: JFK was a clueless little rich boy
Truth: He was quite well educated and regarded as quite intelligent. by everyone who dealt with him, even his political opponents. So this statement of yours could be categorized as an outright lie, certainly as a case of unsupported character assassination.
Challenge: Prove that JFK was clueless. It's not going to work just to say that you don't agree with his policies. You have to prove how he was clueless (and consequently: how you are not). You don't get to be President of the United States by being clueless. For example, I'm not a fan of George W. Bush but he wasn't clueless. I'm not a fan of Bill Clinton's either. But he wasn't clueless. Show that just because you don't like someone's policies that when you say they're clueless that they really are clueless and it's not just a personal opinion you're trying to spread around as fact.
Your statement: JFK's daddy bought him the presidency
Truth: The American people voted for him. But by your standards we agree that the influence of money on politics must be abolished. And most of the money that is being spent on politics is coming from the people you favor: big business.
Challenge: Campaign for the removal of corporation status as "legal persons", the removal of the definition that "money is political speech", and elimination of or meaningful limitations to campaign donations. That would end the influence of "JFK's daddy" and all other people like him.
Challenge: For you to have the guts, the decency, and the honesty to accept the challenge above. I don't think you do.
Your statement: bootleg whiskey money.
Truth: We've heard that one before. I'm not a person who likes the old man who very much, in fact I don't like him at all, but, lacking a conviction for bootlegging, the proof that he was a bootlegger is up to you. The truth is that he did have a license to distribute Scotch whiskey, becoming the exclusive agent for Dewar's and also for Gordon's Gin, among others. This was all after the repeal of prohibition. He did at times use insider information in some of his business dealings, but that was perfectly legal at the time. In fact, Joe Kennedy himself, later appointed to the SEC by Roosevelt, initiated legislation which made some of his prior acts illegal going forward. I wonder if you would ever have been so forthright.
Challenge: Identify instances of proven illegal activity on his part. Not just stories, proof. We're still waiting.
Your statement: President Johnson was corrupt.
Truth: I don't know what he did to gain office in Texas before he ran for national office in 1960. I've seen indications that his behavior was not exemplary but there is no indication that I'm aware of that would indict him as vice president or president. Back to any perceived instances of illegal activity while engaged in Texas politics, I suppose, if it were true (and I'm not denying it) a defense could be made, as it often is in such cases, that "everyone was doing it". That's not a defense, that's an excuse. A failed excuse.
Challenge: Show that Mr. Johnson was convicted of such activity, otherwise shut your mouth. I'll even provide a little help: his biographer, Robert Caro said of him that his drive for power was uncommonly ambitious and that he paid little, if any, attention to ideology, philosophy, or principles. This should be an easy challenge for you.
Your statement: MM said he even sucked in bed.
Truth: Neither you know nor I know the truth of that statement, which in any event would be a personal judgment which cannot be verified.
Challenge: Show how your statement indicates anything that's truthful or in any way applies to whether or not JFK was a good or bad man. In other words, this is relevant to what?
Your statement: This was also the beginning of an era of big unions killing good companies.
Truth: Labor/management issues have always impacted the bottom line. There was nothing special about this particular era. When a business fails, its management likes to blame everyone - except themselves. Unions are a particular whipping boy, but the fact is that contracts are entered into voluntarily, maybe not happily, but certainly voluntarily. To enter into a agreement which causes your business to fail is a failure of management, not the union.
Challenge: Prove that prior to this time there was not a single complaint that unions had caused a business failure. We don't care if the complaints were valid or not. Just show that there was no such complaint.
Your statement: Viet Nam was a loss. No definitive victory since WWII. Gulf of Tonkin a lie.
Truth: Gulf of Tonkin a lie? I thought so at the time but it seems that whatever happened was interpreted to meet certain pre-existing political stances, something which you seem to do much of the time. I agree, the American effort in Viet Nam failed. That is a loss, particularly of all the people who were lost. As to "no definitive victory", not so true. The conquest of North Korea was not a stated goal of that war, although I fault the Truman administration for permitting MacArthur to continue his advance across the 38th parallel if it did not have such a policy. It strikes me as being opportunistic rather than well thought out. In Viet Nam the policy eventually became one of providing help until the ARVN could handle the war by itself. This is not a viable militarily achievable goal. The U.S. military tried, but the impetus had to come from the people themselves and by and large the South Vietnamese people preferred, right or wrong, not the government in Saigon nor the foreigners who were helping prop it up. Nixon, in order to gain the presidency, appears to have interfered with the progress of peace talks while he was a candidate. Afterwards, once he was president, he prosecuted and expanded the war. In neither case, Korea or Viet Nam, was there a clear, viable definition of victory which the military could achieve. That is a political failing.
In the first Gulf War there was such a definition, it was the removal of Iraqi forces from Kuwait. That was achieved, and President Bush (the father of the later president) called for a halt. His action was completely proper. The war was run professionally and well at both military and political levels and achieved its goals.
In the second Gulf War, run by the son, which was a war of aggression (yes, Saddam Hussein was a corrupt, murdering bully, there are many others in other countries and the U.S. hasn't attacked them), the definition of victory was the removal of Saddam Hussein. Which was accomplished. Again, Rumsfeld aside, the war was run professionally by the military, less so on the political side. But it did accomplish it goals.
In Afghanistan, another war run by the son, the American response was legitimate, an attack on a government which knowingly had provided assistance to al Qaida for it attacks on America. The military succeeded in driving the Taliban from office and forcing al Qaida to relocate.
So your claim that there have been no definitive victories since WWII is seen as quite untrue, and personally, I think it's a deliberate untruth on your part.
But to continue: In both Iraq and Afghanistan "nation building" efforts have failed miserably. In one short sentence the major reason is that there really are no such countries as Iraq and Afghanistan. They are collections of people with differing religious and ethnic backgrounds forced to live within boundaries that were drawn by other people from other countries with interests other than those of the inhabitants in mind.
Challenge: Make a statement that is actually factual.
Your statement: skyrocketing debt.
Truth: The budget was balanced by the end of the Clinton administration. Since then two wars, one of them justified as far as the military response was concerned, and the economic downfalls in and around 2006- 2008 have impacted this greatly.
Challenge: Provide a reasonable scenario for relief, not one that is politically skewed to your sentiments nor one to the other side. Become a statesman or stateswoman, produce a solution which is a solution yet one in which everyone gains and loses.
Your statement: Why does this MF gov't, etc., have it's hand in everything?
Truth: It doesn't have its hand in everythig.
Challenge: Remove the cussing from your pathetic diatribes. Using "MF" proves that you're a gutless bore.
Your statement: brainwashing about fossil fuels
Truth: Fossil fuels are constantly being produced, unfortunately they take millions of year to produce and our consumption exceeds the rate of replenishment. That last part is what is non-renewable in this context.
Challenge: Tell the truth.
Your statement: One Air Force one should have been a Concorde
Truth: There are, for many reasons dealing, among others, with backup and security, at least two Air Force Ones. To have only one would be a security violation. So you would need at least two.
Challenge: Show just exactly what Britain being an ally has to do with the type of aircraft flown as Air Force One, and, keep in mind: the name "Concorde" was chosen because it was a collaborative effort between two countries.
Challenge: You've only named one of the countries which developed the Concorde. Name the other. My thinking is you have neither the guts nor the honesty.
Statement: Government needs to get its paws out of everything that is free enterprise.
Truth: Laissez-faire capitalism, which is what you're proposing, was the cause of revolutionary unrest across America and Europe throughout the 19th and into the 20th centuries. Now you're going to say, see this person is against capitalism. No, I'm not. I'm profiting from it. But untrammeled capitalism produces rioting, death, and violent overthrow of governments. It is fair to say that it was a primary cause of the Russian revolution. In Europe, rioting and revolt flashed across the continent, not just in 1848, but throughout the century. The English aristocracy, to its credit, recognized the problem and reformed, ended laissez-faire capitalism, and avoiding revolution. In some cases it seems the reform went too far, but on the whole, it's been very successful.
Challenge: Read your history without prejudice. No one here said that capitalism of and by itself is bad or evil. It isn't. But it needs to be tempered. Karl Marx grew up in and personally benefitted from laissex-faire capitalism, but recognized its dangers and evils and wrote Das Kapital in response. It wasn't a good response. Marx, for all his research, knew little that was useful about history or economics and especially failed in his understanding of what motivates humans. He knew much more than you do but his knowledge was, in the end, much more harmful than good (and whatever good he might have produced was betrayed by Lenin and Stalin). And that leaves you personally very little room to squirm around in.
General challenge to you: Prove that any of this has anything to do with Juan Trippe which is what the original article was about in the first place.
So yes, DOPE, the truth does hurt: you.
Good bye and good luck.
Catch 22
Vous avez pris l'appât. Merci beaucoup.
Check your blood pressure. ð
Geehrter Herr, Ihre Franzosen ist ernsthaft schwach. Eher wie Ihr Verstand.
enni a szart
"In a recently declassified phone call with Secretary of the Treasury C. Douglas Dillon ..."
Why in the world did this stuff have to wait 50 years to be declassified? Regardless of the content of the call(s), the process is what has me baffled.
The reason Terry is the same reason MLK's stuff will be classified until 2027. This gov't lies to us because there's no reason to tell the Sheople the truth.
It was the desire of the Kennedy clan and their supporters to embargo the juicy details until they were all dead.
Glad to see some inside on JFK. I was led to believe that Nixon was the only one who used profanity and threats.
Oh my goodness, the list of profanity using POTUS very likely has 44 members at this time. You need to read more history. You shoulda heard LBJ up close...
Word is that JFK was no angel
You can't be both.
POTUS and Angel?
JFK Concorde
JFK was a clueless little rich boy whose daddy bought him the presidency with bootleg whiskey money. He's martered because he was assassinated leaving us with a corrupt Johnson. According to MM, he even sucked in bed!
This was also the beginning of an era of big unions killing good companies.
After reading other comments, wake up! I don't care what people think. Viet Nam was a LOSS. This country hasn't had a definitive victory since WW2! The Gulf of Tonkin scenario was a LIE! We keep getting into these co$tly wars for not and now we have a skyrocketing $17T accelerating DEBT.
Also, If Boeing couldn't get its sh&$ together, that's too bad. The Russian Tu-144 was a failure also. Why does this MF gov't have to have its MF hand in everything???
This country is so damn brainwashed into believing there's not enough fossil fuel that we will sabatoge almost any project. One of the Air Force One's should have been a BAC Concorde with air refueling capabilities. After all, Britain is our ally!
We could not afford Apollo & Viet Nam. So why did we continue in VN? Because for some unknown reason, the JFK, Johnson & Nixon administrations believe that sacrificing our young boys is worth pumping up the economy. The exact same thing happened with Bush 2 & now the village idiot. The guy who got a PEACE PRIZE sanctioned a military surge.
Lesson: GOV't is TOO DAMN BIG and needs to get its paws out of everything that is free enterprise. Gov't is the turd in the capitalistic punch bowl.
I apologize to everyone except DOPE. It's been very pleasant reading everyone's comments on the article and I've gained a lot of insights into the airline wars which is fascinating stuff, and then this kind of jerk has to come along with every stupid, deliberately wrong, smear. I know, we all know DOPE's crud is just that, but it really angers me that that kind of thoughtless crud is out there. I guess it's the thoughtlessness and the trivialities and the endless personal smears which are totally irrelevant to the conversation that make me see red.
So again, I apologize. And thank you to everyone else who has had a decent, instructional, and relevant comment to make on the issue at hand.
You keep forgetting how to spell your name. Don't forget that final E. It's Cricket DOPE, which explains why you have to translate everything into a cheap, disgusting, America-hating political regurgitation. DOPE is exactly the right word for you.
Bob, tell that to your great grand kids. Whoops! Unless you speak Mandarin, you might not be able to.
Amazing that you don't have a definitive explanation of why you don't like my posts. Is it because you've been DUPED into believing this and every other administration since Truman could really give a damn about the American people. Or have you been brainwashed into believing that raising the debt limit is GOOD for this country?
Why don't you spell out line by line what you don't like. Sorry that I'm not buying the propaganda this gov't is selling. The truth hurts, doesn't it?
Be a man & point out my lies. We've been waiting since Saigon fell in '75.
You can see from this phone call that Kennedy was not from Camelot, and you can understand better why he started the ball rolling in Viet Nam that ended up killing more than 50,000 young men for no good reason.
Juan Trippe contributed to America. JFK disgraced it.
It's hardly a revelation that a former U.S. wartime sailor used some profanity when he was pissed. The whole Camelot thing was a worship image manufactured by the media. Father Kennedy was a booze runner and an east coast mafia king pin of the Irish Catholic variety which was resented by the Cosa Nostra. That's hardly the stuff of Camelot. The only thing that cleaned up Jack was his marriage to Jacquelin Bouvier who was of the genuine high society debutante mold. Even so, he managed to screw that up in his relatively short time in the WH.
As far as Vietnam is concerned, Jack was dead set against any buildup. He correctly saw that the South Vietnamese were unwilling to put forth the commitment, the fight, necessary to secure their own freedom. His view in that regard proved prophetic. Accordingly he had already ordered a draw down with the first 1000 American advisers to be home by Christmas 63 when he was assassinated on Nov 22nd. He and McNamara had already agreed on the draw down. It was JFK's successor, the incomparable crook Lyndon Baines Johnson, whom JFK vehemently disliked and intended to dump from the ticket in '64 who countermanded JFK's withdrawal order immediately upon assuming the presidency following JFK's assassination. It was LBJ as the new CnC with the power to do so who was behind the buildup following the phony "Gulf of Tonkin incident" which was used as the excuse to begin what would be a huge buildup of American forces in South Vietnam who basically assumed complete control of a war not of our making nor a threat to American security interests. It pleased the CIA leadership which had disliked Kennedy and his handling of the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba to oust Castro and no doubt pleased some if not many among the U.S. military industrial complex.
The rest is history, a sad and tragic history. Our current SoS, who is "unfit to command" anything, managed to sneak into the Vietnam war just long enough to write himself up for some medals that would benefit his future political career and sneak back out to begin his slanderous and traitorous false accusations about our conduct of the ground war there. That only served to prolong the suffering on both sides especially for our POWs. But for a few brief upticks along the way, America has been in a steady decline ever since the Vietnam War with the incline of the slope steepening sharply during the past 5 years. Admittedly JFK was no saint but he never disgraced America, that was accomplished in spades by those who followed him including present company. Without his instigation there would likely have been few if any of the great NASA accomplishments the benefits of which are still being counted.
Paul, I have to agree on almost all of your points EXCEPT JFK not wanting us in Vietnam. If he knew more about Korea, and also how the French got their asses kicked there, in January of 1961, he would have high tailed it OUT! He was sucked in like the rest.
Bushy 2 was also a man who knew no history. What was he doing in '79 to '89 when the Russians were getting their asses kicked by the Afghans?
Now we have a communist who approves surges in a place where we are going to leave billions of dollars worth of equipment.
A thoughtful and accurate recounting of the Kennedy machine. I would question JFK and RSMc taking the advisors out as simply a threat against Diem to get concessions of tungsten coveted by RSMc for pals at Ford and GE. It was Kennedy and McNamara that wrote the script for Tonkin, LBJ simply ran with the play.
The NASA work would have occurred with Nixon or Goldwater too, as there was a national cry to show America was better in space than the USSR. We were, and the trip to the moon ended the discussion.
He was the first in an almost unbroken chain of dismal leadership that threw common sense out the window to chase unreal utopian ideals, personal gain/power, and other agendas that have put America into a flat spin now being flown by a student pilot.
-"...into a flat spin now being flown by a foreign student pilot."
Well said, Paul.
Incorrect: Truman "started the ball rolling" in 1950. MAAG. Various estimates claim upwards of 3,000,000 people died during our war of choice (The Second Indochina War). Vietnamese, Americans, Thais, Laotians, Cambodians, Aussies, South Koreans, Filipinos, New Zealanders, etc. For no good reason, I agree.
Please, The Truman Troops were advisors to supervise American military gear and teach the French not to surrender at the first sign of trouble. In the decade until Kennedy took over we lost more men in Texas bar fights than Viet Nam. Then Kennedy and Diem (both "good Catholics") conspired to create a 'Pearl Harbor' to draw the Americans into the Viet civil war. It was called The Gulf of Tonkin incident. It was as staged as a performance of South Pacific on Broadway in New York.
Gulf of Tonkin and its resolution was staged by Johnson not Kennedy. JFK issued an order in November '63 to begin withdrawal of troops by the end of 1964.
Also, JFK is speaking very strongly here and he knows that America must maintain international competitiveness if for no other reason than maintaining "balance of payments." Of course he had to be removed from office in order for the predatory capitalists to begin dismantling the American economy and have us all become debtors to pay them interest in the new economy created by the "neo-Liberals" Carter, Reagan, Deng, Thatcher, Clinton, Bushes, Obama. JFK was a leader and perhaps the last truly American president.
"For no good reason"------my wife bought me a pair of Columbia insulated boots at Dick's Sporting Goods. They say "made in Vietnam ". When I was there I didn't see any snow or anyone in boots except the military. High priced freakin boots if you ask me.
Made by Vietnamese but created and designed in America. The American corporate BS is that you would pay more if they were made here. Not necessarily true. They are just increasing their profit margin by having them made in Vietnam. Prices are set in the marketplace not always at the factory floor.
Vietnam is starting to take the place of China as the manufacturer of choice among American corporations.
58000 dead AND a welfare system that has ruined millions. Thx.
I'm torn on the whole issue. On the surface I would like a free market system- where business can do whatever it needs or sees fit - because we are a free democracy. (supposedly)
On the other hand - I am very patriotic and think that companies should be more patriotic as well. Keeping the money flowing within our economy and not spent over-seas seems like a good idea. A huge trade deficit is never a good thing for those loving right here in the US...
The answer - there is no right or wrong answer. But I can tell you that other nations are very concerned about outsourcing jobs and goods from other nations - taxing OUR exports to them heavily so that we don't have a fair chance to sell them items as well - so what you have is a system where we keep on showing the world how free a system we are - and they keep showing us how unfair they can be.
I am sure there are specific instances where this is not true- but for the most part our goods and services are heavily taxed when imported to other nations so that their own nations goods and services have an upper hand - and yet we do not - we keep allowing people to sell nearly anything - including things that are manufactured illegally, by companies who employ children slave workers, toxic chemicals that are pumped into the earths water systems (like mercury, lead, arsenic, etc etc. With no disregard.... and yes, when they don't have to spend billions to properly handle toxic waste they can and are much cheaper to buy in the long run...
I think MOST of us agree that Carbon Dioxide is not a big deal - but I am sure we do agree that allowing heavy metals to flow out to sea is a horrible thing... right?
Eventually, as more and more jobs are off shored - and more and more products are purchased from over-seas- the common american will no longer be able to buy those things that we are trying to sell them. And that is a problem. Companies have got to realize that there is more to life than pure profit- because what is profitable in the short term is not what is profitable in the long term. And all people seem to care about is short term financial gain - without realizing the long term consequences.
And I am a believer in a free market! The question is, how do we entice our corporations to think long term, and to think of America is a permanent home rather than just a place they currently reside. It's as if these companies don't really care where they are located- and once it's no longer worth while to be in the USA- they will simply pack up and move to where it is favorable. And when the US is poor and desolate - and people are willing to work for 20 cents a day - they will offshore jobs back here? IS that what it will take for us to keep jobs within the US?
There used to be a time where employers were proud to see their workers living a good life, proud to have high paying jobs, proud to sell their goods as "made in USA" - now I think they just don't care- and they have full control over our government to boot.
Neither extreme is a good thing - having the president dictate who can buy what is not the right answer - but I would like to know why an american company can feel that it's perfectly okay to shit where you eat either.
"The question is, how do we entice our corporations to think long term, and to think of America is a permanent home..."
Corporations are driven by the stock market. As a G.M. spokesperson said, "We are a multi-national corporation and we have no allegiance to the United States or any other country. Our only obligation is to generate the highest dividend that we can to our stockholders."
Indeed, if the stockholders don't see a lucrative return on their investment every 90 days, they will sell the shares and buy another stock that promises the greatest return in the shortest amount of time. That's the way it works.
I was in a meeting at G.M. and the director said, "Our goal is to report the highest possible profit every quarter."
There was a fellow there who asked, "Who is G.M. going to sell $30,000 cars to when most U.S. citizens are working at Burger King?"
The response: "You're absolutely right to ask that question and we have considered it. We intend to continue to strive for maximum short term profitability, and yes, there may well be a time when customers here cannot afford to buy our products. That is not our problem. That will be the problem of the person who is sitting in the big chair when that happens. I'm sure he will have some hard decisions to make. Maybe G.M. will stop producing automobiles and start manufacturing can openers but that will be his decision. Right now, our decision is to make maximum profit every quarter."
So the stockholder doesn't care if his profits come from Westinghouse or from King Feng Fu. He is only concerned about the price of his shares at closing. That makes it difficult for manufacturing to establish long term goals and so often they don't.
It would be nice if investors would take pride of ownership in the companies they pursue and would stay for the duration out of a sense of patriotism but the name of the game is maximum money every 90 days or it goes on the block tomorrow morning.
Another good reason GM should have been chapter 7. That said, any corporation earning money elsewhere is entitled to do so. For that money to flow to US investors it does/ should get taxed. Any parts imported to go into US autos should be subject to import taxes in order to keep jobs here (autos used as an example). Thus the reason for my comment about government selling out to big corporations. NAFTA was bought and pAid for. US and China governments disagree on almost everything but where do our corps import the most from? Duh. So the real problem isn't the greedy, heartless corps, but your friendly, caring politicians. And from an investment standpoint, the average citizen prospers very little if at all. Your 401 is a joke compared to what the insiders make. Corps didn't take an oath to serve the people but you know who did. Lol
I agree with you that many stocks are traded short term - and that people want to see results or they sell and move on. But lets not forget that there are plenty of stocks that do not offer dividends. It used to be that stock prices would be a multiple of P/E - but thats not really the case anymore. Today stock prices aren't really connected to anything. It's all speculation. It's all about news, scandals, etc. The entire stock market is over-inflated. A stock can miss it's EPS by a penny and plummet the stock price 5 or 10 percent. It's all speculative. If you went back in time and looked at the stock prices they were not as speculative... and they weren't anywhere near as over-inflated. Now that so many people day trade and Hedge funds - and so much trading on margin - a single entity can sway the price of the stock artificially. A CEO being sick could make the stock price plummet even on a good quarterly report, and vice versa. It's all BS - it always was BS - but now it's Piled High and Deep, or as I like to call it, PHD in BS.
So there is more to life than profits - because if a company did something fantastic they would see excellent stock prices because it's all about public perception and not really tied to anything solid. If it were we would see stock prices adhering to a multiple of PE or some other technical - but some companies trade at a fraction and some at 30x PE... and some will for no reason swing from 3 to 20 times P/E with no real change at the company. Proof of this is seen when a stock like FedEx that had horrific Q report that same day, missing by a huge amount, not just pennies - ended up closing significantly higher because the Fed is rumored to not raise the rate. Does the rate have an impact on business, SURE - but missing the mark by 50 cents or more should not only neutralize the positive, it should have sank the strike price all together.
So I don't buy it. I know that the CEO's and boards believe it, and because they do it drives the corps to act in a certain way, but int reality it has very little to do with it. A company can have a long term view - act accordingly and still have good stock prices. It happens. The only reason it doesn't happen more often is because people are stuck in that paradigm and can't see the forest for the trees.
It is a relatively new concept that the corporations only concerns are those of profitability. The company has other obligations including the fair and ethical treatment of it's workers, to the environment, to taxes, to the local area which they physically reside in, to their vendors to which they buy raw materials from, to it's customers in the form of warrantied products and safe products as well, human rights, etc etc etc. These corporations may really want the reality to be that their only concern is to the bottom line- but it just isn't true. Period.
But the corporations DO have obligations to the nation, to the people that work for it - and they have been trying to excuse some very bad behavior on their part, but it isn't true... no matter how much they try to justify some pretty horrific behavior, they do have a responsibility to it's employees, environment and country. There are some companies that choose to act properly and I wish to god that the others followed suit, because it's hard to justify using and abusing everything around you for short term profit.
You know, I hate liberal BS - but the ultra-rich are no better. Both extremes of the spectrum are insane, and saying "thats just the way it is" and "life isn't fair" is not good enough - we can do better. Life doesn't have to be this bad with government over control on one side, and K street's lobbyists paid for by corporations getting every law they want passed. If we decide to act like humans to one another we can get rid of all those crazies once and for all.
Johnny this is what you should do next time you think this:
"The question is, how do we entice our corporations to think long term, and to think of America is a permanent home..."
Go ask a 20 or 30 something American and see the crap answers you get from a youth that was indoctrinated by the public school & university system. Then you'll get a clear answer.
Points well taken. Putting America first in government and business is the start. At this point business has bought government and that is why we do nothing about trade imbalances; even with our enemies. Yes, our biggest imbalance is with an enemy.
Thats just it, we are at war - just not with bullets. And when China keeps their currency artificially low - it is in a sense a war crime that violates the Geneva Conventions LOL
You can believe in the "free market" all you want but there is no free market and you just outlined all the reasons why there is not. Only in the US do we have a such a large number of persons who do not know how international business really works. All other countries have mechanisms to ensure domestic competitiveness: VAT of 7 to 20% on all imports along with single-payer, not corporate based, health insurance. VAT is exempt on exports turning countries that have them into one big trade zone, everyone learns to export. Why? Because when we run a trade deficit, as JFK well understood, we might as well stand on the beaches of America and throw dollars out to sea. We need to earn foreign currency through exports through meeting international demand.
We could do this, bear the momentary pain of increased taxes on domestic spending on consumer goods but benefit by having imports including those products of American corps. made in China, Vietnam, etc., we would have a chance of increasing manufacturing here and level the market for made in America products.
Medicare is our single-payer system for seniors and should be extended to all persons with a flat monthly fee slightly higher than seniors pay now: around $10 per month. Not have this and relying solely on private insurance whether with or without the ACA makes made in American less competitive.
Once the VAT and single-payer systems are in place the global market will be made fairer and perhaps then we can have a "free market."
damn right, what was that dickhead, Trippe, thinking?
Juan Trippe was a U.S. Aviation pioneer. Pan Am contributed greatly to the U.S. WW2 effort and got screwed in return. Pan Am had to compete. Period.
Smith, Hughes, and Rickenbacker, were also U.S. Aviation pioneers and contributed greatly to the U.S. WW2 effort. But none of them got screwed, they did it to themselves.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
how can i make my users use this form here
... ?
that form sends an email to an adiministrator reporting the item and quantity orderd
but doesnt send any user information .. like who sends the email ... or which user sends the email ?
how can i add a registered user information or logined user information to that form ?
the buy product is the link
that gives a form ..
and sends the submit button form action to a phpscript which sends an email .. to the administrator
but no signs of any user identification ...
a bit of an update


text:
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text:
Parent Teacher Conference - Mont Harmon JR High will be holding Parent Teacher Conference on Wednesday Feb 18 and Thursday Feb 19 from 4:00 to 7:00 pm. Mid Terms Will Be Available. School will not be in session Friday Feb 13 or Monday Feb 16 in observance of President's Day.
Baseball Registration - Ages 8-15, Tuesday March 2nd from 6:00-8:00 p.m. for Price Little Leagues and Babe Ruth at Pinnacle Sports. Helper leagues register at the Helper Auditorium. Bring players birth certificate.
Free Nutrition Seminar - Attention Mothers-to-be...do you suffer from nausea, heartburn, constipation, gas, hemorrhoids, leg cramps, mood swings? You may find relief with simple exercise or nutrition tips. Join us for a free nutrition semiar on Thursday, March 4, 2004 at 6:00 p.m. Space is limited, call today for a reservation. Carbon Chiropractic Center, 39 North 600 East, 637-0450.
Story and Craft Hour- C.E.U. Museum will be holding a children's Story and Craft Hour every first and third Friday of the month at 2:00 pm in the Museum's Discovery Room. Please call the Museum at 613-5754 if you have any questions.
Helper Library Board Meeting - The Helper Library Board will meet on Monday, February 23, 2004 at 6 p.m. in the Helper Library.
Pancake Supper - Ascension ST. Matthew's will be serving a pancake supper on Tuesday, Feb 24 from 5:00 to 8:00 pm. Single donation of $3.00 or your whole family for $10.00 - Children 3 and under free when accompanied by and adult.
Free Movie Madness - Will be held Feb 20 at 6:00 pm at the United Way Office behind Zion's Bank on Carbon Ave. Small Children need to be accoumpanied by an adult. Treats will be available for purchase. Questions or concers please call 637-8911.
St. Patrick's Day Parade - The 20th annual St. Patricks Day Parade will run down Price Main Street at Noon on Saturday, March 13th. Parade entries are fee and all groups and organizations are encouraged to submit an entry. To participate in the parade, contact Corky Nichols for additional information at 637-2646 or Nick Tatton, Price City Community Director at 636-3184. Presented by Price City and the Carbon County Chamber of Commerce.
Cans for CARE-A-VAN - Aluminum can drive to assist the elderly with transportation to medical appointments. Drop off at Howa's on Carbonville Road or call 637-9488 for pick up. Cans must be bagged.
Lecture Series - Dr. Rick Jensen and Dr. Christopher Lepisto present an Alternative Medicine On-going Lecture Series. The lectures will be held at 894 E. 100 N. #3, in Price. Please RSVP for the lecture you are interested in by calling 650-1460.
February 25 at 7 p.m. Your Healthy Gut (GI Health and Internal Cleansing)
Girl Scouts - Adults or girls ages 5 to 18 interested in Girl Scouts please call Patti Rigby at 637-1613 after 6 p.m.
Carbon High Class of 1994 - Is planning a 10 year reunion for August 7, 2004 and would like to make sure all class members are invited. Any '94 graduate who did not recieve a post card notice about the reunion in January should write to firstname.lastname@example.com or Carbon High '94 Reunion, 19 A Street B49, Salt Lake City UT 84111 with updated address information. Check out the website at www.carbonhigh94.com for more information.
Singers Invited - Choir rehearsals for Russell Wilson's "Prelude to Glory" every Sunday night at 7:30 p.m. at the CEU Music Building.
Wellington & Price Head Start Programs - Head Start and Early Head Start is accepting applications for children for the upcoming year 2004-2005. For details call 637-4960
Square Dancing - Give it a whirl at the Karl Peterson Center locate at 107 S. Carbon Ave, in Price every 1st and 3rd Thursday at 7 p.m. For information call 637-0136 or 637-1382.
Foster Grandparents - Volunteers of America-Utah needs grandparents to join the Foster Grandparent Program team. Foster Grandparents receive a modest non-taxable stipend of about $200 per month. Individuals who are at least 60 years old; love children; have a limited income, and extra time to share may qualify. FGP volunteers serve 20 hours per week in local schools, and receive a daily meal, a yearly physical, accident and liability insurance while on duty, and transportation to and from the school. Fill your extra time with love and purpose! For more information call 613-0987 or call toll-free 1-800-201-5572.
Food Handler's Classes - There will be Food Handler's Classes taught in Price Feb 25 and Mar 24 at 9 a.m, 4 p.m., and 7 p.m. at Southeastern Utah District health Department. Classes will be taught in Castle Dale March 25 at 4 p.m and 7 p.m. at the Health Department located at 25 W. Main St. The Classes will be two hours in length and the cost is $10.00 to take the test. For information, please call Dr. Claron D Bjork, at the Southeastern Utah District Health Department, 637-3671 in Price, or Terri at 381-2252 in Castle Dale.
Frontier Project - Local Family Support Group. R.O.A.R. will be meeting every third Thursday in Carbon County. Meeting will begin at 7 p.m. at the United Methodist Church, 10 North 200 East. Childcare will be provided and refreshments will be served. For more information call 637-1497. Everyone is invited to attend.
Rape crisis hotline - Rape or domestic violence victims in the Carbon-Emery County area may contact the local 24-hour crisis line toll-free at 1-866-894-8610.
Carbon County Animal Services - Residents are encouraged to bring recycled newspapers and aluminum to the office at 3360 S. 225 West, Price. Donations will be used for homeless pets.
Carbon County Food Bank - Hours are Tuesday through Thursday from noon to 4 p.m. and Friday from 9 a.m. until 1 p.m. For information on donating, volunteering or applying, contact the food bank at 637-9232.
Golden Rule Mission - Donate your garage/yard sale leftovers to the Golden Rule Mission in Helper. We will pick up, call 472-2631. Tax deductible.
Carbon County RSVP - RSVP partners senior individuals (55 & older) with organizations in need of their time, talent, and life experiences. If you are interested in volunteering, or are in need of volunteers, please call 637-9118.
Foster Care Foundation - Carbon-Emery residents interested in becoming foster parents may contact Greg Cowan at 636-0210.
Parenting for teens - The Family Support and Children's Justice Center in Price offers a free class dealing with the issues, problems and difficulties facing teen parents. Participants learn about available resources, assistance to return/remain in school, parenting/life skills, cooking and recreation opportunities. For information, contact Terry Willis at 637-0281.
CASA - Special advocates are trained volunteers appointed by judges to speak for children appearing in court. Volunteers are screened. For information, contact Kerrie at 435-381-5595 or 435-650-0654.
Carbon County Animal Shelter - AVID chip pet identification is available at the shelter. Hours are Monday to Friday, 9 a.m. to 5 p.m.; Saturday and Sunday, 10 a.m. to 2 p.m.
Foster parents - The local DCFS office needs foster parents willing to work with teens and provide emergency shelter care. For information, contact Cindy Saccomanno at 636-0219.
JFK Display - The Helper City Library is honoring John Fitzgerald Kennedy with a special display during regular library hours.
Helper library - Hours are Monday through Wednesday from noon until 8 p.m.; Thursday from noon to 6 p.m.; Saturday 9:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m., closed between 2:30 p.m. and 3:00 p.m. Monday through Thursday, and closed Friday and Sunday. For information, contact the library at 472-5601.
Kingsmen Drag Strip Association - Meeting every Thursday night, 6:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. at Castle View Hospital, main entrance, first left for conference room. Sponsored by Castle View Hospital and GCR Tire. For more information contact Mike Fercik at 637-7503, Dean Bradley Jr. at 636-0530 or Jeremiah Avery at 637-3865.
Women's Bible Study Group - Interdenominational, interactive. Mondays 6:30 p.m. to 7:30 p.m. in the lower fellowship hall of the Seventh-Day Adventist Church. Cost is $11 for book (partial/full scholarship for those in need). Supplies needed: a bible (a concordance would be helpful). Contact Leslie Caza 637-1162 or email@example.com.
Price Library - Hours are Monday through Thursday, 10 a.m. to 7:45 p.m.; Friday, 10 a.m. to 4:45 p.m.; Saturday 11 a.m to 3:45 p.m.. Story hours are Wednesday, 5 p.m. and Thursday at 1 p.m. Barkin' Books presents Pet Pals on Tuesdays from 5 to 6 p.m. All children are welcome. For information, call the library at 636-3188.
CEU Library -Hours are Monday through Thursday from 8:00 a.m. to 10 p.m.; Friday from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m.; Saturday from 10 a.m. to 5 p.m; Sunday 2 p.m. to 10 p.m. Hours vary during breaks. For information, contact the library at 613-5209.
Family Support & Children's Justice Center - offers crisis care for families with children from infants to 11 years old. Crisis nursery is open 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Families may use the nursery for respite, family crisis, court, doctors appointments, medical emergencies, mental health appointments, escaping family violence, attending parenting classes/divorce classes and AA/Narcotic Anonymous meetings. Parenting classes are scheduled Thursday at 1:30 p.m. For information, call the center at 637-0281.
Habitat for Humanity - For information on volunteering or applying for homes, call the Habitat office at 636-3230 .
Cancer screening - Southeastern Utah Health District in Price offers checks twice a month for women up to and including age 64. Clinics include breast, pelvic and pap exams at low or no cost. Women 50 to 64 may qualify for free mammogram vouchers. Call the health district at 637-3671 for appointments.
Infant immunization clinics - The health district in Price offers the clinics Monday through Friday from 3 p.m. to 4:30 p.m.; and Thursday from 9:30 a.m. to 11:30 a.m.
ABC Learning Center - features movies Fridays at 7 p.m. The facility has books, computers and activities for adults and children. Summer hours are Monday through Friday from noon to 7 p.m. Winter hours are from 2 to 6 p.m. For tutoring appointments, call the center at 888-2061.
Social Security - Located at the county courthouse in Price, the office is open the second Wednesday of the month from 9:30 a.m. until 2:30 p.m. For information, call Social Security toll-free at 1-800-772-1213.
Castle Country's Promise - Adults interested in supporting Carbon and Emery youth may contact the program at 613-5284 or visit the groups' website at www.castlecountryspromise.org.
Pinnacle Canyon Mardi Gras Fundraiser - Saturday, March 6, 2004, 6 p.m.-Midnight at the Price Elks Club. Dinner and dancing, silent auction, raffles and more. Keele 'n Time will perform. Deluxe tickets (includes dinner, dancing and all events), $30; Standard tickets, $10.
American Cancer Society - Daffodil Fundraiser to be held until the 17th of February. To order daffodils, or if you need further information, contact Jessie Huff at 637-3671. Orders and money will be due on the 17th. Daffodils will be delivered March 15th or 16th.
St. Patrick's Card Party - The annual St. Patrick's Card Party luncheon will be Saturday, March 13, 2004, at 1 p.m. at the Helper Civic Auditorium. Sponsored by St. Anthony Altar Society, call Mary Bonacci, 472-5977 for more information.
Price Culture Connection -The winter season includes the following presentations:
February 19 Out the Back Door, Hoffman, Schmits and Lasslo, Price Civic Auditorium 7:30 p.m.
February 26-28, March 1-2, CEU Theater: Crimes of the Heart, Geary Theater, Tickets at the door, 7:30 p.m.
Advisory Board Meetings - The Family Support and Children's Justice Center of Carbon County will be holding Advisory Board Meetings on the following dates during 2004. February 12, April 8, June 10, August 12, October 14, and December 9, 2004. All meetings are held at 8:00 a.m. at the Price CJC, 108 N. 300 E. in Price. For more information call 637-0281.
Marine Corps League - meets the second Monday of the month at 6:30 p.m. at China City. For membership information, contact David Brewer at 472-8757.
Price American Legion Post #3 - meets the first and third Thursday of each month at the post home - 27 N. 100 W.
Helper American Legion Auxiliary - meets the fourth Thursday of the month at 6 p.m. For information, contact Pat Scherschel at 472-8203.
VFW Field Service Officer to Visit - A field service officer from the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW), Department Service Office, in Salt Lake City, will be in the Price area to assist all veterans, veteran's widows and dependents, in understanding and applying for rightful VA benefits, preparing and documenting application for compensation, pension, hospitalization and other benefits. This service is free and veterans need not be members of the VFW to qualify for assistance. The VFW field service will be working out of the Price Workforce Service Center from 8:30 a.m. to 10:30 a.m. on March 11, 2004. Please bring the following documents so we may better serve you: DD form 214, marriage/divorce papers, birth/
VFW - Post hours are Monday - Saturday from 11 a.m. to 7 p.m. Meetings are the second Thursday of the month at 7 p.m. Games are on Sunday at 1 p.m. For information, contact Ginny Boren at 637-7424.
Adult bicycling club - Residents older than 50 years of age interested in joining the club may contact Richard Morley at 637-8363.
Old Time Fiddlers - Free acoustic jam sessions the first Saturday of the month at 10 a.m. at the Price senior citizens center.
Helper Gun Club - Winter night league, Fridays at 7 p.m.
Contact Bill Curtice for more information, 435-637-1086.
Bowling league scores - League secretaries should report high scores weekly to Rose Fossat. For information, contact Fossat at 637-1488.
Castle Country King Crawlers - 4x4 club meets every 2nd Wednesday at 7:00 pm in Washington Park.
Castle Country Fiber Guild - meets the first the first Monday of the month at 7 p.m. For information contact Michelle Goldsmith at 650-3290.
Central Utah Stock Car Racing Association - meets the second Tuesday of the month, 7 p.m., at Helper Civic Auditorium. For information, contact Reed Phillips at 613-8288.
League of Utah Writers - Price chapter meets the third Thursday of the month from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. For information, call Margaret Christensen at 637-0772.
Masonic Lodges - Regular activities include Carbon Lodge 16, F&AM, first Mondays, 7:30 p.m.; Joppa Lodge 26, F&AM, first Tuesdays, 7:30 p.m.; Eastern Star, Naomi Chapter 13, first Thursdays, 7:30 p.m.; Job's Daughters, Bethel 3, second and fourth Wednesdays, 7 p.m.; and York Rite (chapter, council, commandary alternating), first Wednesdays, 7:30 p.m. Utah Eastern Shrine Club. Contact Norman Smith for information.
Castle Valley Archaeology Society - meets the third Thursday of the month at 7 p.m. in the CEU museum classroom. For information, contact Bob or Margene Hackney at 637-0482.
Utah Friends of Paleontology - Castle Valley chapter meets the second Tuesday of the month, 7 p.m., in the CEU museum classroom. For information, contact the museum at 613-5060.
Carbon County Historical Society - meets the last Thursday of the month at 7 p.m. at the Senior Citizens Center. For information, call Kathy Hamaker at 637-5456.
Carbon County Triad - meets the first Wednesday of the month at 2 p.m. at Price senior center. Members focus on law enforcement and aging programs to assist the elderly.
Newborns in Need- Residents are encouraged to donate baby items for needy infants in Carbon County. For information on volunteering or donating items, contact Teresa Kilcrease at 637-5324.
MOPS - The mothers of preschoolers group meets the second and fourth Monday of the month at 6 p.m. at Price Chapel. Adult crafts, child care and children's program included. For information, call Tami Campbell at 637-7542.
Castle Country OHV - Meetings are the third Thursday of the month at 7 p.m. at the fairgrounds building. For information, contact Leslie Tolley at 637-6130 or visit the group's website at www.ccohva.org.
BACA - The group meets the third Sunday of the month at noon at Kraync Motor in Price.
Price Ladies of Elks -The group meets the first Wednesday of the month. For information, contact Susan Etzel at 637-5772.
Multiple sclerosis support group - meets the first Tuesday of the month, 7:30 p.m., in the conference room at the health district in Price. For information, contact Danny or Tami Velasquez at 637-0712.
Overeaters Anonymous - meets Thursday at 8 p.m. in room 6 at 105 W. 100 North, Price.
Gastric bypass support group - meets the second Thursday of the month at 7 p.m. at Castleview. For information, call Wilma Howa at 472-5048
Domestic violence support groups - are scheduled weekly. For information, call the 24-hour crisis line at 637-6589.
Single mothers support group - meets Tuesday from 7 to 8 p.m. at Price Community Center. Child care available upon request. No fees required.
AA, NA - Meetings are conducted at the following locations:
Daily - noon, open, 11 W. Main, Room 202, Price.
Sunday - Couples Meeting, 11 W. Main, Room 202 in Price. 6:30 p.m., open, Helper mission.
Monday - 8 p.m., open, Four Corners in Price; 5 p.m., open, AA Stepsisters, 11 W. Main, Room 202 in Price.
Tuesday - 6:30 p.m., closed, Four Corners in Price; 8 p.m., open, East Carbon City Hall; 8 p.m., open, Four Corners in Castle Dale; 8 p.m., open, NA Rm 202, 11 W. Main, in Price.
Wednesday - 5 p.m., open, AA Stepsisters, 11 W. Main, Room 202, Price; 8 p.m., open, 11 W. Main, Price.
Thursday - 8 p.m., open, 11 W. Main, Price; 8 p.m., open, Huntington senior citizens center.
Friday - 5 p.m., open, AA Stepsisters, 11 W. Main, Room 202, Price; 6:30 p.m., closed, Helper mission; 8 p.m., open, East Carbon City Hall; 8 p.m., open, 11 W. Main, Price.
Saturday - 6:30 p.m., open, 11 W. Main, Price; 8 p.m., open, 11 W. Main, Price.
Price Alanon - The group meets Wednesday and Saturday at 8 p.m. in room 221 at 90 N. 100 East, Price.
Price Naranon - The group meets Monday at 8 p.m. in room 202 at 11 W. Main in Price.
Women's cancer support group - meets the third Wednesday of the month at 7 p.m. at Castleview's classroom For information, contact Sherry King at 637-4800, extension 3510.


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Matt P wrote:Headley is one of the elite defensive 3B as well as one of the elite offensive 3B. How can you not expect him to have been better than Machado was?
What future do you keep talking about? A couple of former prospects and a non top 100 prospect?
I believe we're comparing apples and oranges. IMO Headley would not have been enough improvement over Machado for us to have won the division or ALDS.
I see it as important to remember the status of our talent at the trading deadline. SD wanted two pitchers whom, although they had vastly underperformed, were all we really had as ML ready reserves in our system. IF we had traded them and one of our starters had gone down we would have been back to looking for another ADAM EATON. No thank you.
At that point Chris Tillman, Miguel Gonzales, and Steve Johnson were unknown quantities. Can anyone REALLY say they just KNEW that all three of these guys would play at an impact level? Of course, Joe Saunders wasn't an Oriole yet and the opinions on this forum weren't the most supportive of the trade. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1393 The fact that he was also an impact acquisition probably came as a surprise to most of us.
As I saw it then, we were gambling our pitching reserves on a player that I did not see as a difference maker on his own AND we were selling at the bottom of the market for two talented assets.
Then there's the "throw in" prospect(s). Bridwell was one of the best four pitching prospects in our system and Delmonico was one of the best four hitting prospects. For a farm system that is so barren, I find it difficult to give up one of those guys as a premium in an effort to support a team that I did not see as championship caliber. Apparently, DD saw it the same way and I'm grateful for that.
On July 31st we were just starting to make our run, were FAR behind the Yankees, and many of the members on this forum were concerned about the difficulty of the upcoming schedule. It was no slam dunk that we were going to win 82 games (which was the goal I had set for the season), much less the division. On October 3rd the heavy price for Headley looked a lot more reasonable because it turned out we didn't need the extra pitching, but not two months earlier.
I just see this discussion as arguing about the clarity of the water already under the bridge. If we can get Headley for a fair price, then let's do it. If not, then let's look elsewhere for other ways to improve the team. I don't see him as the difference BY HIMSELF; we're going to need at least two of the "core four" to step up to the next level to be a legit contender next year.


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That's great. You may find that the people in the premium servers will be more challenging then those you usually face but on the bright side it may help you improve faster. Have fun!
That's great. You may find that the people in the premium servers will be more challenging then those you usually face but on the bright side it may help you improve faster. Have fun!
I went through the server list.. same map rotation..
Wanted to play dm6 and 17.. Tried creating a bot game.. No maps there, same crap as public map rotation..
Sure, could pay like a lot of other ppl are doing.. But no swedish servers? No real support? So what am i supposed to pay for? A game i already own?(Quake 3 arena)
*Installing q3a*
So, hope the cpma scene is still there.. Since this game is basicly dead when i look at the server list..
You read my mind.
Will buy pro as soon as the devs start doing something ( quake is not included in 'something').
Last edited by Sasparillo; 11-05-2012 at 05:46 PM.
at the moment, 9am in Australia, there are about 20 servers going, 3 people are playing. btw, we don't celebrate Halloween here. nice change of view but, alas. red rover infected sux.
Last edited by Sasparillo; 11-05-2012 at 05:46 PM.
An argument for CAPTURE THE FLAG players only......please withhold your stupidity for others by bringing up CA, FFA, etc. But when I joined QL in beta, there were regularly 7, 8, 9 capture the flag public servers going on all the time at least up to midnight eastern standard time US, and even late into the night there was always 3-4 going on. I'm talking about 4v4-6v6 full. I am not talking about instaCTF but the standard format. This was the free servers alone, as I wasn't a premium player then, so can't say about prem/pro CTF servers (did they even have them then back in beta??).
Tonight there is ONE (1) single, solitary CTF server that is a standard (free) server in the ENTIRE USA that's playing right now (it's full at 6v6, with some specs), and 0 premium/pro CTF servers active. This is at 8:20 pm tonight: hardly a time when CTF-ers are heading to bed.
There will always be ID lackeys on the forums trying to act like ALL IS WELL with the game, and deny deny deny even if they're the only ones talking to themselves. But anyone who's been logging onto this game since it's beginning and doesn't see it diminishing is simply blind and delusional. And for CTF-ers in particular, this game is essentially dead in the water.....
Have a nice FALL!
(o^.^o) PIKA PIKA!
The Search Bar is your friend...use it.
Problem? Check here!
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Why CTF4 is bad
i would gladly pay for this game if only my pre-paid card worked.


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- Northern New York Newspapers
- Watertown
- Ogdensburg
- Massena-Potsdam
- Lowville
- Carthage
- Malone
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The city is ready to take the next step in a proposed $3.6 million upgrade of the nearly 40-year-old Watertown Municipal Arena that could include a new lobby, ticket booth, press box and offices and bigger and better locker rooms and restrooms.
The Watertown City Council will be asked tonight to approve a $99,700 contract with Stantec Consulting Services, Rochester, for preliminary design of the project at the Alex T. Duffy Fairgrounds.
A committee of city staff selected Stantec after interviewing five firms competing for the job. Representatives of the firm were required to take a walk-through of the facility to get ideas on how to proceed with the improvements.
For years, city officials have talked about making major improvements at the facility, citing increased use and a need for more space. In February, the council informally agreed to go forward with the project.
Councilwoman Teresa R. Macaluso said the project is long overdue.
It has not had a facelift done in 30 years, she said. There are things that need to be done. I think we have to move forward with it.
Five consulting firms with expertise in sports venues vied for the design work. The other firms were Foit-Albert Associates, Buffalo; C&S Cos., Syracuse; Bell & Spina PC, Syracuse, and MRB Group, Rochester.
The preliminary design work would be completed by January, with the project possibly starting next year.
The owner of the Thousand Islands Privateers has told the city the minor league hockey team needs a new locker room.
The project also might feature a warming room where spectators can view the action on the ice, improved administrative offices and a new party room. Work would include repairs to the roof and its trusses. For several years, the roof has been plagued with leaks during heavy rainstorms.
The pre-design will be paid for with funding allocated in the 2011-12 budget for an arena fire protection project, which would be included in the improvements.
In other action:
n Council members are expected to endorse formally the $12.8 million Lincoln Building restoration project, proposed by businessman Brian H. Murray and his partners, Doolittle & Hall LLC. They need the endorsement to apply for $300,000 in state grant funding.
The application for the grants through the state Homes and Community Renewals Urban Initiatives and Main Street program is due Aug. 12. The project would entail a mixture of commercial and rental space in the Public Square building.
n Volunteers involved in maintaining and making improvements at the Arsenal Street Cemetery are asking the council to approve a project to get electrical power and water to the cemetery. They said they hope utilities can be connected to nearby Sand Street, so an American flag could be lit up at night, and so water can be used in maintaining the cemeterys gardens.
The council will meet at 7 p.m. today in the third-floor council chambers of City Hall, 245 Washington St.
Thousands of readers like you have made Northern New York Newspapers the number one ranked website* for local news and sports coverage in the north country.
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Everyone needs to exercise, even people with asthma! A strong healthy body is one of your best defenses against disease. But some people with asthma have "exercise-induced asthma" (EIA). But with proper medical prevention and management you should be able to walk, climb stairs, run, and participate in activities, sports and exercise without experiencing symptoms. You don't have to let EIA keep you from leading an active life or from achieving your athletic dreams.
What is Exercise-Induced Asthma?
Exercise is a common cause of asthma symptoms. This is usually called exercise-induced asthma (EIA) or exercise-induced bronchospasm (EIB). It is estimated that 80 to 90 percent of all individuals who have allergic asthma will experience symptoms of EIA with vigorous exercise or activity. For teenagers and young adults this is often the most common cause of asthma symptoms. Fortunately with better medications, monitoring, and management you can participate in physical activity and sports and achieve your highest performance level.
What are the Symptoms of EIA?
Symptoms of exercised-induced asthma include coughing, wheezing, chest tightness and shortness of breath. Coughing is the most common symptom of EIA and may be the only symptom you have. The symptoms of EIA may begin during exercise and will usually be worse 5 to 10 minutes after stopping exercise. Symptoms most often resolve in another 20 to 30 minutes and can range from mild to severe. Occasionally some individuals will experience "late phase" symptoms four to twelve hours after stopping exercise. Late-phase symptoms are frequently less severe and can take up to 24 hours to do away.
What causes EIA?
When you exercise you breathe faster due to the increased oxygen demands of your body. Usually during exercise you inhale through your mouth, causing the air to be dryer and cooler than when you breathe through your nasal passages. This decrease in warmth and humidity are both causes of bronchospasm. Exercise that exposes you to cold air such as skiing or ice hockey is therefore more likely to cause symptoms than exercise involving warm and humid air such as swimming. Pollution levels, high pollen counts and exposure to other irritants such as smoke and strong fumes can also make EIA symptoms worse. A recent cold or asthma episode can cause you to have more difficulty exercising.
How is EIA Diagnosed?
It is important to know the difference between being out of condition and having exercise-induced asthma. A well-conditioned person will usually only experience the symptoms of EIA with vigorous activity or exercise. To make a diagnosis, your doctor will take a thorough history and may perform a series of test. During these tests, which may include running or a treadmill test, your doctor will measure your lung functions using a spirometer before, during and after exercise. Monitoring your peak flows before, during and after exercise can also help you and your doctor detect narrowing of your airways. Then, using guidelines established by your doctor you can help prevent asthma symptoms, participate in and enjoy physical activity. Your doctor will also tell you what to do should a full-blown episode occur.
Treatment and Management of EIA
With proper treatment and management people with EIA can participate safely and achieve their full potential. Proper management requires that you take steps to prevent symptoms and carefully monitor your respiratory status before, during and after exercise. Taking medication prior to exercising is important in preventing EIA. Proper warm up for 6 to 10 minutes before periods of exercise or vigorous activity will usually help. Individuals who can tolerate continuous exercise with minimal symptoms may find that proper warm up may prevent the need for repeated medications.
What Types of Medications Treat/Prevent EIA?
There are three types of medications to prevent or treat the symptoms of EIA. Your health care provider can help you determine the best treatment program for you based on your asthma condition and the type of activity or exercise.
The first medication is a short-acting beta2-agonist, also called a bronchodilator. This medication can prevent symptoms and should be taken 10 to 15 minutes before exercise. It will help prevent symptoms for up to four hours. This same medication can also be used to treat and reverse the symptoms of EIA should they occur.
The second medication is a long-acting bronchodilator. It needs to be taken 30 to 60 minutes prior to activity and only once within a 12-hour period. Salmeterol can help prevent EIA symptoms for 10 to 12 hours. This medication should only be used to prevent symptoms and should never be used to relieve symptoms once they occur because it does not offer any quick relief.
The third type of medication is cromolyn or nedocromil. They also need to be taken 15 to 20 minutes prior to exercise. There is also some evidence that taking these medications will also help to prevent the late phase reaction of EIA that is experienced by some individuals. These medications also should only be used as a preventative measure because they do not relieve symptoms once they begin. Some individuals use one of these medications in combination with a short-acting bronchodilator.
If you have frequent symptoms with usual activity or exercise, talk to your doctor. An increase in your long-term control medications may help. Long term anti-inflammatory medications such as inhaled steroids, can reduce the frequency and severity of EIA.
Teachers and coaches should be informed if a child has exercise-induced asthma. They should be told that the child should be able to participate in activities, but that they may require medication prior to activity. Athletes should also disclose their medications and adhere to standards set by the U.S. Olympic Committee. Approved and prohibited medications can be obtained from the committee hotline (800-233-0393).
What Types of Sports are Best for People with EIA?
Activities that involve only short burst of exercise or intermittent periods of activity are usually better tolerated. Such sports include walking, volleyball, basketball and gymnastics or baseball. Swimming that involves breathing warm and moist air, is often well tolerated. Aerobic sports such as distance running, soccer or basketball are more likely to cause symptoms. In addition cold air sports such as ice hockey or ice-skating may not be tolerated as well.
It is important to consult with your health care provider prior to beginning any exercise program and to pace yourself. With effective management people with EIA can perform and excel in a variety of sports. Many Olympic athletes and professional athletes with exercise-induced asthma have excelled in their sports, many winning Olympic gold medals.
Remember, with proper medical management you should be able to walk, climb stairs, run, and participate in activities, sports and exercise without experiencing symptoms. Do not let EIA keep you from leading an active life or from achieving your athletic dreams.
SOURCE: This information should not substitute for seeking responsible, professional medical care. First created 1995; fully updated 1998; most recently updated 2005.
© Asthma and Allergy Foundation of America (AAFA) Editorial Board