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Dual graphics dud: Intel's Core i3-4330 overpowers AMD's A10-7850K in budget gaming
- By Joel Hruska on March 13, 2014 at 2:54 pm
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Test setup
Our AMD tests were conducted on an Asus A88X Pro motherboard with 8GB of DDR3-2133 motherboard and the latest BIOS installed. Windows 8.1 was installed on a Samsung 840 Pro SSD. Our Intel comparisons were run on a Gigabyte Z87X-D3H motherboard with a Core i3-4330 installed. Again, Windows 8.1 was installed to a Samsung 840 Pro SSD, and all patches and updates were installed to both systems.
We used AMD's Catalyst 14.2 Beta driver. As per our Turbo Core bug report, Turbo Core was disabled for Dual Graphics testing. This dramatically improved the frame latency in Dual Graphics configurations and brought the R7 250 with A10-7850K's stuttering down to expected levels. This impacts some titles more than others — Torchlight 2 and Metro: Last Light were significantly better, while Batman: Arkham City wasn't impacted at all.
Our settings in these games reflected a desire to keep frame rates high and playable as opposed to jamming the pedal to the metal in all cases, but this creates some oddities. The R9 260X is far more powerful than the A10-7850K — in some cases, testing apples-to-apples meant putting up with unplayable frame rates at the lower end, or a flat performance curve at the (relative) top.
Metro: Last Light
Metro: Last Light was tested in DX11 at 1600×900, medium detail, with 4x anisotropic filtering and no antialiasing. It's one of the more demanding FPS titles on the market today. "Kaveri APU" in these graphs is the A10-7850K APU on its own, without a secondary graphics card.
Kaveri's integrated graphics almost manages a playable frame rate, but the benefit of the R7 250 is fairly modest, at an additional 28%. That's enough to matter visually, but it doesn't compare to the R9 260X, which is 2.32x faster than the standalone APU and 1.81x faster than the combined mode. The Core i3-4330, meanwhile, is 16% faster than the A10-7850K when both are tested with the same GPU.
Batman: Arkham City
Arkham City is a game we tested two years ago, when we considered the A10-5800K's performance. We've stuck to the older title because the performance distortions in Arkham: Origins are too one-sided to ignore. Back then, we opted to keep the game running in DX9 — this time, we've decided to lower the resolution to 1600×900 but keep DX11 running and use Medium details.
The standalone APU's performance of 40 FPS is excellent, and adding a second GPU brings the frame rate up a further 60% — not a bad bargain. Again, however, the R9 260X leaps ahead, with the Intel Core i3-4330 10% faster than the A10-7850K.
Torchlight 2
Torchlight 2 is a Diablo clone (created by some of the authors of that franchise) and it emphasizes speed and simple play over heavyweight graphics. Like its predecessor, it can run on almost any hardware, as evidenced by the high frame rates on solo A10-7850K.
Update: Torchlight 2 doesn't support AMD's Dual Graphics mode. The performance figures here reflect the game running solely on the R7 250, not the combined GPU+APU.
The R7 250 (running solo in this case due to a misunderstanding on our part) is about 28% faster than the APU alone. But in this case, it appears that the A10-7850K's low CPU performance is holding the core back — the R7 260X is only 15% faster than the R7 250. When we switch to the Core i3-4330, that gap widens considerably — the R7 260X is 65% faster when paired with the Intel core compared to the AMD APU.
BioShock Infinite
We benchmarked last year's smash hit, BioShock Infinite, in 1920×1080 at "Very High" detail. This is the lowest performance test that relies on DX11, but it's much faster on the APU than the DX11 Ultra setting we typically use for high-end testing.
Even so, the integrated APU can't manage a playable frame rate, though a resolution cut would fix the problem. Scaling from the R7 250 is nearly linear, at 1.8x. The R7 260X is 46% faster than the combined version, at 57 FPS, and for once, the A10-7850K and the Core i3-4330 are tied.
Battlefield 4: Mantle and Direct3D
I saved Battlefield 4 for last because it's the one game with a working Mantle implementation, even if that implementation is still early days. We tested the game at "Medium" detail, again, to prioritize a playable frame rate at all settings. We benchmarked the multiplayer game on a 64-player map of the Golmud Railway.
The Kaveri's 37 FPS in D3D mode is solid — remarkably playable, in fact. Scaling from the R7 250 is decent, at 1.46x, if not exceptional — the jump from 37 FPS to 55 FPS is noticeable. The R7 260X is again significantly faster, however, at a further 1.49x faster. Again, the Core i3-4330 pulls away from the A10-7850K, at 102 FPS versus 86 FPS.
Mantle's performance results reflect its early status. It simply doesn't work with the R7 250 and A10-7850K, and we tried both the Catalyst 14.1 and Catalyst 14.2 drivers. Performance increases by 14% under Mantle for the R7 260X and the A10-7850K, but decreases slightly for the Core i3-4330 in the same configuration. This could be due to slight differences in our performance testing, or could reflect another errata in the API's performance.
Regardless, Dual Graphics users should rely on Direct3D, not Mantle.
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Is there such a thing as budget gaming? Isn't that for integrated chipsets?
Depends on how "budget" the system is.
The Atari Flashback 4 classic game console is only $49.95 and you get 75 games. I'd call that 'budget'. ;)
My Uncle Harrison recently got Infiniti Q50
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It could be if you're not a hardcore gamer, I have a budget gaming pc. I primarily use it to play old games, the last game I bought was Skyrim, before that one black ops. Most of the newer games that are coming out I think they are garbage, unfinished games with a bunch of patches and bugs, oh and the large space they need is just ridiculous.
Joel Hruska
Skyrim packs on a lot of weight once you replace the terribad textures it ships with:
Replacing them adds 3-5GB to an 8GB title. Fidelity ain't cheap.
The so call HD texture pack is 4GB and I only notice it in the faces on characters, other than that hardly noticeable unless you have them side by side. Still 12GB title is not bad given skyrim has a lot of content to explore. Also its nice of them to give you the option if you want to apply them or not before playing.
Joel Hruska
No no no, not Bethesda's texture pack.
Third party texture packs. Bethesda's texture pack was pretty wretched.
Ah, third party ok. I was wondering why is Bethseda's pack was so big yet it offer little change.
Civilization V
cut and pasted from
not minimum but suggested:
CPU:1.8 GHz Quad Core CPURAM:4 GBOS:Windows Vista SP2/ Windows 7Video Card:512 MB ATI Radeon HD 4800 series or better, 512 MB NVIDIA GeForce 9800 series or betterSound Card:YesFree Disk Space:8 GB Free
All this makes you wonder what AMD has on tap for Excavator (or a Kaveri refresh like Richland was). What I've been hearing from pretty much every reviewer out there is that memory bandwith is the biggest issue affecting APUs. It would have been interesting to see what the GDDR variants could have done.
pelov lov
Unless AMD solves the GPU bandwidth issues, Excavator won't be bringing anything to the table other than more marginal improvements. And judging by the TDP decrease to 65W on the same 28nm node, DDR3 memory controller and the same platform, that's likely what will happen. I'm not expecting much of anything from Excavator on the GPU front other than better perf-per-watt.
Kaveri's pricing is completely out of whack. At MSRP, $173, AMD has priced the A10 Kaveri out of contention from the gate. Throw in pricey 2133 or 2400 DDR3 and lackluster crossfire scaling and it only gets worse. Had Kaveri replaced Richland at the ~$140 price tag it would've made it a better competitor against the i3.
Yes, there's Mantle, HSA, and TrueAudio, but let's not ignore that Intel offers additional extras like QuickSync, AVX2, and RST along with lower power consumption and a healthier motherboard selection.
Joel Hruska
I think those bandwidth problems are eminently solvable. Just don't know if the company will take the path to solving them.
pelov lov
Well, let's break it down =D
*DDR4 is unlikely to solve that as the speeds will be at DDR3 levels and prices and availability are going to be huge issues for the next ~1-2 years as foundries slowly adopt DDR4. The DDR4 option is going to be strictly a server thing for a while.
*Expanding their IMC to triple or even quadruple-channel (I've actually heard some suggest that!) would inflate die size, pin count, and increase cost of both silicon and platform, not to mention make it a nonstarter for laptops and smaller form factors.
*HMC is interesting, but it's still a couple of years away and it'll be very costly. It'll also (probably) require a new platform, which means not on FM2+, and thus no Excavator.
*eSRAM or eDRAM are plausible insofar as they're available today, but they'll increase price and TDP both. Likewise, there would have to be more work done on the IMC in order to cooperate with a hefty bit of cache if AMD decides to maintain the benefits of unified memory. Doing that with DDR3 is something they've already achieved, but LLC+DDR3 is a completely different ballgame. Given Excavator is sitting at 65W TDP, I find this option unlikely unless AMD decides to decrease clocks (think Haswell+GT3e) in order to account for the hungry transistors.
*And the most likely, from my perspective, is AMD finally gets around to tuning up their horrendously slow internal memory controller and the gains we see in Excavator are from efficiency improvements rather than attempting to brute force it through a bottleneck with even higher memory speeds. The improvements won't be large, but they'll come for "free," so to speak, as it won't increase power budget nor require a costly alternative (eDRAM, DDR4, HMC). As a bonus, it might even improve CPU performance a bit :P
They gambled with GDDR5 and the timing + availability kicked them in the groin. I highly doubt they'll be doing anything exotic like that again… which sucks, because an exotic option would be a perfect fit.
Joel Hruska
I would expect any move to multi-channel to be in a desktop platform, not a mobile chip. As far as improved IMC efficiency, remember, GCN tolerates high-latency controllers — even on-die memory accesses on GCN are *far* slower than NV counterparts. The AMD IMC is actually lower latency than the native GCN controller.
If AMD adds memory channels, it'll be because more memory channels are a cheaper way to boost performance compared to adding more cores. I agree that it has knock-on effects on chipset, though tthese are possibly mitigated by using a unified GDDR5 design.
pelov lov
That means a new socket + *much* higher platform cost. Unless AMD has suddenly decided that it wants to make a 2011-like workstation platform that's going to be absent from servers and laptops both, it's not going to happen.
The knock-on effects would be huge, Joel. For one, having two variants of your processors, meaning paying for masks (and these are SoCs now, which makes that even more complicated as feeding voltage to separate parts of the die becomes a nightmare) and two separate fab processes churning out two separate chips.
Whatever AMD has decided, it's going to be FM2+ compatible and that limits the choices down to eDRAM or fine tuning the IMC. Personally, I'd prefer both, but I don't think AMD sees a market for even costlier APUs.
I forgot to mention GDDR5 as a possibility above. While it is still possible, it's a poor stopgap solution that comes with platform limitations (has to be soldered to the board), increases main memory latencies even further, and will be very costly.
Joel Hruska
GDDR5 is the *only* option available, though. Well, the only option available that doesn't incur the knock-on effects that you and I both agree are limiting.
I have not been clear. I think GDDR5 is more likely than triple or quad-channel DDR3/4 for Carrizo. I think whatever happens post-Carrizo is going to involve some very different assumptions and strategies for optimizing performance.
Does the Carrizo GDDR5 actually happen? I don't know. So I suspect AMD's strategy for boosting performance in the next-gen, like you, is ultimately to optimize for efficiency, bring down power cost, maybe try to bring GPU clock upwards.
I don't think adding more cores on-die will help them much at this stage.
pelov lov
It's the CPU efficiency that limits them as far TDP goes
With more efficient CPU cores, GPU performance might be even better :P
I don't see the GPU core count increasing either. The memory bottleneck is problem #1 as far as GPU is concerned. GDDR5, while a novel idea, is inevitably higher prices and lower volume and does nothing for their CPU side. In fact, it only exacerbates the issues they're already faced with.
AMD isn't doing 22nm yet.
Joel Hruska
Pelov Lov,
I see some evidence that one thing AMD is experimenting with aggressively in Kaveri is really tuning CPU and GPU for variable workloads so as to extract maximum headroom at every point (for best overall performance).
I think a GDDR5-based GPU for Kaveri would probably boost frame rates by 15-25%. Question is, would that be enough?
If they're willing to expand die space a bit, L3 cache could be a possible alternative, too.
Joel Hruska
I think EDRAM would serve them better than L3. Granted Intel has an 8MB L3 for IVB on-die, but we don't know if that would help AMD, which has an entirely different memory system.
pelov lov
Of 8MB L3$ only 1.5MB is GPU usable, and it's not shared in that it's unified. It's a negligible amount, particularly at higher (720p+) resolutions. Joel's right in that a sizable amount of eDRAM would be a far better option than a smaller amount L3. You won't see L3 cache on any AMD processors until they've addressed the hypertransport problems with the addition of a new server socket and CPU.
As to your question regarding GDDR5 — no. Considering I can envision AMD gaining about 10-15% from just fine tuning what's available to them now, I don't see how adding $50-$100 (plus hassles) to their platform with the addition of GDDR5 is worth the extra ~10%.
Given that latency issues are perhaps the biggest issue facing their CPU side, I really doubt they'll want to push that further by adding GDDR5 as main memory for both sides of the die.
Joel Hruska
Where'd you read that IVB only had access to 1.5MB of L3? Check this: http://cdn.pcper.com/files/imagecache/article_max_width/review/2012-04-22/intelivybridge5.jpg
See the big block of blue to the right of the word "Processor Graphics?" As far as I'm aware, that's a dedicated L3 cache for the GPU. It takes pressure off the ring bus, and it's GPU-specific.
pelov lov
There are 2-3 512KB partitions dedicated to the GPU
That's Kanter's article on IVB. I don't think it's changed with Haswell, but I could be wrong.
Joel Hruska
Interesting. I thought it was significantly larger. Thanks for linking that, I'd missed that detail.
pelov lov
If I'm not mistaken, the only larger pool available is the eDRAM with crystalwell. The high-count EU variants still rely on the same cache
Man you need to find a better commenting system the disquss. Another subject. I'm not impressed with non of these technology's, for the simple fact they cannot do what I want the most, what I think is the next step. 4k resolution, when intel comes out with their new cpu at the end of the year, it will have a gpu built into it, enabling 4k resolution without and GPU hookup from the PCI3 port!. I want 4k resolution, the first thing I need to aquire is a 4k tv with atleast 240 hertz native hopefully and a grand warranty plan that extends at least 4 years, as i find new technology always breaks for me. Then I will acquire my new system, with the intention of new game's that leave my current system crippled. I hate most games out today, so going for 4k resolution might improve where the buck stops, that with my eye.
Indeed.. Full UHDV 8K is being released in Japan in 24 months .. they recently announced that digital terrestrial broadcasting of H.265 85Mbps 8K streams will happen there in Japan in just 2 years from now…. (the US and Europe might follow another 18 to 24 months after that probably)
…so that means that 8K monitors, tv sets and new optical media from BluRayDiscAssociation are going to be released quickly…
Joel Hruska
No current APU or Intel GPU can drive 4K gaming. The Intel GPU may support a 4K *2D* display, but only the highest-end GPUs can credibly drive 4K gaming.
No. The performance of a 500 – $900 GPU will not be baked into any CPU or APU in 12 months. That's flatly impossible. Even a super-charged Haswell-based Core i7 with DDR4-3200 will only offer 102GB/s of memory bandwidth. That's about 1/3 of what an R9 290X offers.
The next-generation GPUs from AMD and Nvidia will be impressive if they can offer reasonable frame rates on single-GPU 4K gaming. The generation after that might push high-detail 4K gaming into the $400 range.
The generation after *that* might push 4K to the midrange in single-GPU, and the generation after *that* would be the generation that pushes it to the $150 price point.
The generation after *that* (below 10nm, in 6-7 years) will be the generation that puts an integrated chip on-die that can credibly drive 4K gaming at high details and frame rates.
Edit: Want proof? The GeForce 8800 family were some of the first cards to really drive 1920×1080 at high frame rates in single-GPU configurations in 2006. Eight years later, we finally have 1920×1080 at the $100 price point with the GTX 750 and the R9 260X and the A10-7850K can push *some* games at 1920×1080 if you sacrifice detail.
APU-style 4K gaming isn't going to happen until 2020 or later.
In 6 years from now even low end PCs will run games at Full UHDV 8K resolution.
The upcoming iPad6 with the new PowerVR GPUs will be able to support 4K displays.. the current generation runs 2K Retina rendering at 60fps OpenGL ES realtime with all the effects… so… and all of that in a 5Watt to 15Watt envelope…
So you think the iPad12 won't be able to support Full UHDV 8K resolution at 120fps ?
pelov lov
It'll support it, but I wouldn't expect to play PC titles that come out that year at native resolution on your iPad12.
Just because an SoC/GPU can spit back video at a particular resolution doesn't make it a gaming powerhouse.
Joel Hruska
I'm positive that low-end PC games will not be pushing 8K in six years. Let's review. 8K would be 7680×4320. 33 megapixels. 16x the resolution of 1920×1080.
In 2001, a low-end PC would game at 640×480. 1920×1080 is only 6.75x the pixels of 640×480, but it's taken us 13 years to move the yardstick that far.
You're suggesting that in just six years, the low-end experience will leap more than twice the distance as it's moved in 13, despite the fact that Moore's Law no longer allows for the kind of aggressive frequency and voltage scaling that made much of this shift possible.
I'm *very* comfortable asserting that no, in 6 years, low-end graphics will not have evolved at more than 2x the rate of the past 13 years.
you are assuming that carbon nanotubes and HMC and all the other near future tech wont affect change…
Joel Hruska
I'm assuming that these technologies will not dramatically impact any situations given that since 2001 we've had the impact of actual Dennard Scaling (for a few years), the shift from single-data rate to GDDR5, memory busses are now 3-4x wider than they were then, transistors are 1/100th the size, and power consumption has improved by orders of magnitude.
The technologies you list are collectively expected to deliver smaller benefits than these.
Antoine Talbot
Are you being serious? Full 8K gaming is very…. very far from us. Meet you in six years, I bet most of us will still be gaming on 1080 displays. Some may be starting to game 4K with triple SLI/Crossfire, freaking expensive setup.
Joel Hruska
I expect 4K gaming will be mainstream in six years and completely possible on single GPU configurations. Low end monitors will be 1080p.
Antoine Talbot
That's a more respectable prediction. Though we might not have the same definition of mainstream here. For example, if 4K gaming run on 800$ single GPU, for me this is not yet mainstream. But none the less, I think we can agree, that low end hardware will not run 8K 3D gaming. Chojin, even thought current Ipad might be 2K, they display flat content much of the time. You won't see any top notch 3D gaming graphics like BF4 at 60 FPS on these device. There is just not enough crunching power to fullfill those oh so holy display.
No joel your wrong, 4k is happening at the end of the year, intel will release a cpu with a gpu built into it, that can play 4k resolution without a graphics card with no problem. The problem with with the current generation of cpu's is the system bandwidth, specs can be found on your processor or mother board. Intel will at the end of 2014 release a cpu I forgot the code name , and i forgot the codename because it wasnt suppose to be leaked. On youtube link Oyv8-VX4mXg, NCIXcom channel he was at the ces conference. I think he got some information on the cpu that wasn't suppose to be mentioned so I think he took the video down. He should a laptop playing 4k resolution off a display without and graphics card. The link I just gave you shows him, showing off a laptop with a secret graphics card, its the new intel cpu I suspect but he wont say what it is because it is a secret. Once the Cpu merges with the GPU all that system bandwith issue will be flushed down the toilet when it comes to 4k resolution. Hence I am waiting for it, it will come, the 4 graphics card setup are to expensive to power 4k, consume way to much power in a 4 year life span of your computer , produce to much dust in the air and is not healthy in my own opinion. Also the system bandwidth issue will plague you if you go with that option.
Dude, I'm sorry but you don't know what you are talking about. Are you reading anything Joel is saying?
asfal ada
No. The integrated GPU will only be able to watch 4K video. Not play games at 4K.
James Tolson
how come comments posted on the mobile version of this site, don't seem to show on the desktop version? is it a bug with disquss?
http://www.mrseb.co.uk/ Sebastian Anthony
Good question! Will investigate.
http://ziffdavis.com/ sal cangeloso
Just tested, they are all the same. If anything it would be a caching issue.
Joel Hruska
Sal, I've had this happen before with Disqus, where it refuses to show comments on the mobile side.
James Tolson
i noticed it a few times, if i comment on my phone on the mobile site, for e.g i made some comments on the titan fall install size article, and the sony 43 times more powerful than ps2 article, i log on to pc to reply to comments back only never to find them, i can only see them on the mobile version? weird lol
Joel Hruska
This happens to me, a great deal. I'll post a comment, come back hours later, it appears to be gone. I can log into the admin and see the comment has posted; Disqus won't display it.
Then it pops up 24-48 hours *after* that.
James Tolson
yeah i noticed they do seem to come out of hiding eventually lol.. 2 days seems to be right.. :-)
http://ziffdavis.com/ sal cangeloso
If someone wants to email me a specific example I would be happy to investigate when/if it happens again.
http://www.hikingmike.com/ hikingmike
Yeah, and it only shows it if you have a direct link to the comment from a Disqus email. I've had this happen at other sites. I'm sure they show eventually.
"R9 260X leaps ahead, with the Intel Core i3-4330 10% faster than the A10-7850K."
I have to give this a 'lol'. Because the intensive statistical study that would be necesary to culminate the result of that information. While I'm trying to be relevant here, if your trying to put a system together the information from all the latter systems looked at,would only have come to this conclusion only at present.
The pricing,and availability of (an volitility) of price ranges makes a difficult conclusion to make based on pricing performance per dollar.
Really think that the 300 $ Intel Processors are actually the 'norm' here. While arguably the lower tier performers will remain conductive. They are the actual bar to reach. Which AMD does have nothing close to. But cudos to AMD for their great GPUs in their processors.
There are several newer AMD processors in the pipe. They may not be quad core,but they are affordable. Still even though your tier begins at the Kaveri, you could make the tier 'even lower'- to test more lower cost cpus in Dual Graphics modes.. Not sure but the newer updates 'might' proove well attended within the drivers,and the other (even dual core_ ) AMD apus.
The AMD 7850 APU is its 'top notch'. And if it is,whats next,and whats below it ?
I prefer comparing the the 2600K ,or the Q6600. Thats was the platform to equivalize. Thats just me though. With 4k,and other bandwidth intensive purposing,whats to say . Why I give this a straight lol,and good luck to any builder looking for a new build.
BTW is that a SEVEN ?
"R9 260X leaps ahead, with the Intel Core i3-4330 10% faster than the A10-7850K."
Joel Hruska
The A10-7850K was the focus here because it's the APU you can buy. Dual graphics was the specific focus, rather than simply budget gaming, because in 2012, this kind of comparison came out a win for AMD.
According to Steam's hardware survey, 47% of gamers are still using dual core. This suggests that DC performance remains quite relevant for a large chunk of the market.
Thanks for reply.
Nice ET Deal on web site today.
ET deals: Dell Inspiron One all-in-one touch PC for $620
http://www.hikingmike.com/ hikingmike
Interesting. I wonder what games those 47% play. I bet it's not the games that reviewer sites normally use for benchmarking. Kaveri by itself may work for a lot of those people. I don't think many are considering dual graphics right now anyway. Any way to quantify that? I do support the idea the 7850 should have a price reduction… or at least get the A8-7600 out!
Bad choice for AMD to put the A10 7850 in $185 price tag, it should be more of $120-130. I wish you guys could add more games to the list, some old games would been great.
Joel Hruska
The A10-7850K should handle older titles quite well.
That's what I want to see.
Joel Hruska
Well, if older games is what you care about, then older *hardware* should also be fine.
If you're playing games from 5-6 years ago, you can expect them to run on an APU. If you're playing games from 10 years ago, they'll probably run as fast as you remember from your discrete GPU days at the time.
10yrs that's too old, more like 3-5yrs.
Joel Hruska
Alright, so, 3-5 years. Here's how I'd put that.
Five years old? You can reliably depend on 40-50 FPS from the APU. You may not get that at 1920×1080 in all titles (Metro 2033 is a DX11 title that the APU strains to run at 33 FPS at 1600×900), but the APU should be able to run pretty much any title in that bracket *if* you're willing to step down to DX9.
Skyrim, for example, is quite playable. Metro 2033 a bit less so.
I'm not worry about Metro 2033, not on my list kind of horrible game. I was thinking more of Crysis 2 and 3, red orchestra 2, Dead Space 2, god I forgot some need Origin gross.
apusilicon.com checks out older games on apus
http://www.hikingmike.com/ hikingmike
Yeah but that older hardware would need to be a discrete GPU probably vs integrated with the APU. With the APU there is less power consumption, you can use a smaller form factor if you want, and it supports the newer DirectXs. And the CPU portion of the APU is likely faster. And comparing on price? Buying old stuff really is not worth it unless you get a deal on craigslist or from a friend or something, or of course if you already had it.
It would be interesting to see an article comparing new hardware vs old hardware with older and less intensive games. There might not be much demand for it I guess.
Joel Hruska
"And the CPU portion of the APU is likely faster."
AMD's A10-7850K is only 5-7% faster than the 6800K measured clock for clock.
http://www.hikingmike.com/ hikingmike
I think the 6800K was released last year. How does it compare to an i5-2500K or whatever the i3 was at the time? Or a Phenom II X4 970? 7850K just wins against the 970 in the CPUboss thingy (granted this is a very shallow comparison), but just loses to the 2500k — http://cpuboss.com/cpus/AMD-Phenom-II-X4-Black-970-vs-AMD-A10-7850K
Joel Hruska
Sadly, Anandtech's CPU Bench doesn't have results for the 6800K. But you can run the math out with the 5800K, since the 6800K would be just a little faster.
Take these results. Assume the 6800K is about 10% faster, because that's about where it would land. Compare accordingly.
Surely if you're testing in a non-dual graphics set up as well it'd make more sense to compare it to the Athlons when bringing price into it, since no one in their right minds will buy a 7850K and a 260X.
Joel Hruska
Can't compare to chips I don't have. I do mention the $89 750K, though.
AMD clobbers Intel at something? In other news, water is wet.
Um…possible typo?
carol argo
Rofl!how many years Intel bas ben ignoring AMD ?since i5 2500k.oh Intel polish their shrinking ,but let's be real Intel has been mainly focused on cooling of desktop .at 22nm and less!lately Intel has been focusing more energy on mobile .baytrail is their first serious try.(not the last you can be sure)on desktop front ?cpu wise Intel is so far ahead .they stopped trying getting better on that front and are learning at a rapid pace how to create insane GPU in an apu!so AMD being ahead?ROFL where.even the smartphone market is shaking as they should .only 2other corp can keep up!IBM(which only bother if a corp buy their expertise(be it AMD or Intel)and Samsung ,which is at its limit so you can be sure Samsung will have to steal university idea this year if they want to keep up!knowing Intel they re probably already searching for applicability of graphene to supply energy which would probably lower temperature by a lot.
Joel Hruska
This post made my head hurt.
Yousuf Khan
Is there a reason why you didn't test the i3 with an R7 250 as well? Why the emphasis on R7 260X when you yourself admitted that anything above the R7 250, the dual graphics support is automatically turned off.
Joel Hruska
Two reasons.
1). The core i3 + r7 260x is actually cheaper than the r7 250 + a10-7850K — making it the most fair comparison.
2). The $30 price difference makes the r7 250 vs 260X more important overall. If the R7 250 was $55 (or the 260X was $149) then their relative performance would be closer.
I expect that the A10 + R7 250 would likely best the Core i3 + 250 — but at a significantly higher price point.
Yousuf Khan
But since you've compared the R7 250 paired to the AMD, so you already had the video card sitting there, what was the problem in also pairing it to the i3? If you expected the A10 + 250 would've been better than the i3 + 250, then you should've shown how much better it would've been, it is irrelevant what the price points are, you need to have shown all available data. In a few months time, all of these prices will have readjusted, and the value propositions may have significantly changed by then. So at least showing all of the performance figures will still be valid point of comparison, even if the value proposition changes.
In the meantime, it simply looks like you're biasing your testing to be in the favour of Intel. When you're comparing Dual-Graphics, and you've been told DG only works with upto R7 250, but not with R7 260 or higher. But you go ahead and test R7 260 anyways, which has nothing to do with Dual-Graphics, you can understand why it looks like a shill piece.
Joel Hruska
"It is irrelevant what the price points are, you need to have shown all available data."
No, it isn't. Price points are what this story is all about.
In 2012 you could buy a quad-core AMD A10-5800K for the same price as the dual-core Core i3-3320 and the GPU for dual graphics was a $55-$70 GPU. In 2014 you can buy an A10-7850K for $45 more than a dual-core Core i3-4330, and the GPU for dual graphics is $90.
That means you can buy a Core i3 4330 + R7 260X for $15 less than an AMD A10-7850K + R7 250, which means there's *never* a point at which the R7 250 makes sense for that system.
Yousuf Khan
But you still haven't shown what an i3 with 250 can do, so we don't even know it's price point and value proposition.
Joel Hruska
Look at the chart above. The $2.82 measure for dollars for frame is the proof that the Intel chip is the better deal here.
Yousuf Khan
We know how an A10 performs with a 260, and we know how an A10 performs with a 250. We know how the i3 performs with a 260, but not how it performs with a 250. The $2.82 is the i3's performance value alongside a 260, what's its performance value alongside a 250? For all we know, a 250 might be severely GPU bottlenecked when paired with an i3, compared to an i3+260. Whereas an A10 with its own embedded GPU aiding the 250 might not be overall bottlenecked. We need to know the performance of i3+250 to even make that determination.
You've even admitted in a previous reply that you think that in your opinion that the A10 + 250 would beat the i3 + 250. For all we know, you could be right, the performance value of the A10 + 250 may not rise much, but we can't even make that determination without the performance numbers. Really this is an incomplete review until you do all of the tests. It's just one extra combination, it can't take you that long.
Joel Hruska
"It's just one extra combination, it can't take you that long."
I spent an extra two weeks running repeated benchmarks on multiple test configurations to track down the Dual Graphics bug. That was after spending two weeks testing two different driver sets to try and figure out why frame latencies were so bad to start with in certain titles.
But this is easy to derive. Here's how this will break down, best case:
A Core i3 4330 + R7 250 will not be faster than the AMD A10-7850K + R7 250. However, the AMD system costs $275. The Intel system costs $230.
The average FPS rate for the Kaveri APU is 35 FPS. The average FPS rate for the A10-7850K + R7 250 is 51 FPS.
Other tests I ran (not published here), show the R7 250 alone being about 20% faster than the APU. So if we assume that the Core i3-4330 ends up at the same speeds (a logical assumption given the likelihood of a GPU bottleneck), then that means the A10-7850K + R7 250 should be 20-25% faster than the Core i3-4330 + R7 250. It's also about 20% more expensive. So that's a straight win for AMD, right? Fair deal — 20% more cost, 20% more performance.
And it WOULD be…
Except that the R7 260X is available for a total cost of $260.
And the $260 price tag for the Core i3-4330 + R7 260X *destroys* the A10-7850K + R7 250 value.
This is why I've said AMD has two problems here: One is the high price on the APU. The other is the high price on the R7 250.
Yousuf Khan
Well that's good, knowing the entire story is better than wondering why it wasn't told. AMD's value proposition is probably: "you can play games on our processors, without buying any graphics adapter, but if you want to get just a bit of a boost, then all you need to do is buy our cheapest adapter."
And an A10 all by itself is probably a lot cheaper than an i3 + any graphics adapter any day. The point is that an A10 can game by itself, but no i3 can game by itself. Obviously their value proposition is not helped by their currently over-inflated across-the-board GPU prices. But the current crypto-currency fad will end one day, and the discrete GPU prices will fall, and the value proposition will readjust on a performance/value basis.
Also there are lower-end Kaveri A-series processors around that could probably still be price/performance competitive with the i3 + R7 250 combo. There's no rule that says you have to use an A10-7850K, which is their top end A10.
These are early days yet, so all of the technical problems you found with Dual-Graphics and Mantle will be ironed out eventually, and this may become the basis for some very cheap gaming rigs. Not everybody wants to pay $3000 just to play games. Some don't want to pay even $1500 to pay games. Others might want to pay as little as possible.
Joel Hruska
"And an A10 all by itself is probably a lot cheaper than an i3 + any graphics adapter any day. "
We can examine that. We know a Core i3 4330 + R7 250 is faster than the A10-7850K alone (the R7 250 is faster than the integrated APU on the A10).
The A10-7850K alone is $185. The Core i3-4330 + R7 250 is $230. So the Core i3 system is about 25% more expensive than the AMD APU, for 20-25% more GPU performance.
So your point is quite right.
The weak anchor *here* is that the A10-7850K is $185 to start with. If the A10-7850K was priced at $140 (equal to the 6800K), it would have a far stronger position against Intel.
Yousuf Khan
Not necessarily, the A10-7850K is their top processor in that model range. There are cheaper A-series processors available, which would be a lot cheaper, and might not be that far behind in GPU or CPU performance.
Joel Hruska
There's only one other chip available; the A10-7700K. I don't have one. The much cheaper chip that could change this comparison is the A8-7600 — but eight weeks after launch, you can't buy one yet.
Yousuf Khan
I'm sure that A10 will get lower priced as time passes, they always do. And that R7 250 GPU will also get lower. At some point it's going to be one helluva bargain gaming rig. An A10 solo would be about a 40FPS gamer, while an A10 + 250 would be a 60FPS gamer (averages of course).
Marcus Mendez
if you read joel , you find he always has a slant, and it's negative AMD. I think his motives are rather suspect but i don't have any evidence. Your point is what the AMD value proposition is and it's purely that the user has the option to add later a discrete if they so choose. Incidentally, he doesn't give credit to the obvious point that mantel is a big winner here period, and is available now, i am running my fx 8350 with 290x on a 4k monitor (though i play at 1080p) with catalyst 14.2. No intel benchmarks needed. It does what they said it would do though it is taking them a while. Also, i wonder just how much the US market is really the primary focus for AMD. I think there more focused on Emerging markets, which have unforunately have slowed down, but once again, i haven't spent the time to look at the data.
Yousuf Khan
Hi Marcus, my main point was that if this was supposed to be a test of Dual Graphics, then why was one entire combination of CPU and GPU (i.e. the i3 + R7-250) missing? Only the R7 250 is relevant here for Dual Graphics, not the 260X. Second point was that the solo A10 was overlooked as a value gaming rig, but it quite obviously was able to complete most of the games with over 30FPS ranges, which makes it full visual performance in games. That's a much better value than an i3 + 250, which was completely ignored as a combination here.
Joel Hruska
The point of calculating values in $ per frame is that it shows us where the best, most cost-effective solutions are. The Core i3-4330 is the best overall value.
The point of considering Dual Graphics is to consider the value of Dual Graphics *against* the value of non dual-graphics solutions. I genuinely do not understand why this is so difficult for you to grasp.
As I have stated: The Core i3 + R7 260X is $15 cheaper than the A10-7850K + R7 250, but nearly 2x faster. There is no reason whatsoever to consider the Core i3-4330 + R7 250, because there is no universe in which it's a good GPU choice.
Joel Hruska
Mantle is not a particular winner here. It doesn't work with Dual Graphics and while it does help the A10-7850K + R7 260X, it only helps them tie the Core i3. It does not convey a performance advantage.
Eldi Kaiser
I think A10-7850K and 7700K will get a price cut when the rest of Kaveri line up shows up.
Derek-Jojen Cummings
I still haven't seen anyone test this dual graphix with the APU/IGP oc 4.4ghz/1ghz with 2400mhz ram.
Joel Hruska
"I still haven't seen anyone test this dual graphix with the APU/IGP oc 4.4ghz/1ghz with 2400mhz ram. "
My APU isn't capable of running stable at those frequencies.
Derek-Jojen Cummings
i was able to up mine with only a couple ups of voltage, maybe you have a bad chip..
Joel Hruska
To clarify, I can hit 4.4GHz no problem, but my GPU won't do 1GHz and none of my DDR3-2400 is faster than my lower-latency DDR3-2133.
Derek-Jojen Cummings
the ram latency matters less with apu's the higher the speed the better, maybe your nb freq is to high? try 1900mhz nb, then up your nb volts and try to get 1 ghz igpu
Joel Hruska
I benchmarked this. Repeatedly. Games performed better using low-latency DDR3-2133 instead of high-latency DDR3-2400 on my Asus A88X Pro using low-latency Mushkin Redline memory vs. AMD's own RAM.
Performance scores were roughly 10% better with DDR3-2133. This is due to high latencies on the AMD RAM. If you have ~equal latency, you'll see a small improvement from DDR3-2400.
Joel Hruska
I've fallen into the same doubts.
I bought a F2 + A88X-UP4 ….
And I have a A85X-6800K UP4 with Richland.
Could you test the performance of 6800K +260 X Mantle vs Core i3 +260 X?
I'm just interested to see if Kaveri benefits or if I should continue to Richland. -
Joel Hruska
Your A10-6800K should offer very similar overall performance to Steamroller. Within 5%.
Thanks for your reply!!
I think for me it would be best to wait for Excavator …
Although I have followed closely his opinion on "jaguar" …
I am very interested in what the future of AMD can offer.
carol argo
My 2cent?get an xbox one best bang for your $on the 64 bit front!on the 32 bit front?get a ps4
Yousuf Khan
Another thing that needs to be taken into account when doing a price points comparison is how much is the motherboards for each system? Usually AMD motherboards are at least 20% cheaper than Intel ones, which also factors into price considerations.
Joel Hruska
That's true. It would not significantly alter the final equation, however. If we add the cost of an $80 motherboard (AMD) and a $100 motherboard (Intel) we arrive at the following ratios in $ per frame.
Intel Core i3-4330 + R7 260X: $3.90
It does change the end results slightly, but not enough to matter.
http://twitter.com/0_Canada Jesus H. Schmesus
I'm hardly a techie, but is there a reason you keep mentioning A10-7850K + R7 260X considering the combo is incapable of DG? I don't get it.
Joel Hruska
DG is a poor value this time around.
http://twitter.com/0_Canada Jesus H. Schmesus
You're not answering the question.
A10 + 260X won't ***do*** DG. At all. Why mention it in this article???
Joel Hruska
Because the point of doing a comparison of hardware is to illustrate what equipment offers the best value for your dollar. It's not enough to say: "This is how Dual Graphics performs." Readers want to know if DG is a worthwhile investment and if they should spend money to get a DG configuration.
The only way to determine if DG is a good investment is to compare it to non-DG solutions. In this case, the fact that the R7 260X had just dropped to $119 hurt the comparison for AMD.
If the A10-7850K was $119 and the R7 250 was $49, then DG would still look pretty good. With the A10-7850K at $185 (at time of writing) and the R7 250 at $89, it doesn't look good. How else would you suggest we discover this, if not by comparing to something else?
Well for cheap laptops AMD is still good. I mean is there anything faster for 450-500$ ,тhen my 1 year old laptop with "AMD Radeon HD 7660G + AMD Radeon HD 7670M+8gb ram" ?
Joel Hruska
For gaming, possibly not; most Intel laptops these days use integrated. For CPU performance, absolutely yes.
I would rather have CPU performance and more battery life in a laptop than slightly more powerful graphics.
And Intel Iris graphics stomps AMD's iGPU anyway, so AMD is lost.
rishi dev
THis article has absolutely no sense and serves to hype or spread FUD. IF your point was only to show how well Intel beats AMD every time then CONGRATULATIONS!
Any gamer knowing market rates can tell you the 7850k+ FM2+ + 2400mhz 8gb+ r7 240/250 is an extreme situation as far as spending is concerned.
No budget gamer will ever have this kind of a budget.
A poor person walking into a retail store has a limited budget. THe sales person wont even bother telling him blah blah blah.
A 6800k + 2133mhz ram + FM2 can be bought uber cheap now. AMD knows this and will prolly wait till gcc is able to roll out kernels that if not double the perf of the 7850k with HSA and opencl(with apps that use 'em like blender/liberoffice etc.), will atleast bring in 20% or more boost across the spectrum… AND then only drop prices by 30%….or until the 6800k selling and production stops.
….and then windows will follow.
Joel Hruska
1). FM2+ motherboards are cheaper than Intel boards. Motherboard cost is not considered here, in any case.
2). I used DDR3-2133, not DDR3-2400. 8GB of DDR3-1600 is $60. 8GB of DDR3-2133 is $70. A 16% increase in cost gets you a 33% improved memory speed, likely translating to a 16% improvement in APU performance. Just because budget gamers are on a budget doesn't mean they don't optimize their purchasing.
3). The cost difference between a 6800K + 2133MHz + FM2 against the cost of a 7850K + 2133 + FM2+ is $45 (the cost of the 7850K APU). This is addressed, directly, in the conclusion of the article. Nonetheless, the 6800K doesn't offer the opportunity to step up to DG with a GCN processor.
The point of this story was to examine the cost efficacy of DG graphics as a stepping stone to better gaming performance. In 2012, AMD's offerings were quite competitive in this regard.
rishi dev
Some time will be required for market saturation of being able to choose and pick up kaveri parts. Now only flagship parts exist with inflated pricing….if thats what you meant.
$45 is too much…you can get a 4gb 2400mhz in that much.
If you have ever used linux or are using, you'd be shocked to see how AMD advances month by month in optimizations and app features/functionality. Both gimp and blender suck on OSx and windows. Windows get worser and worser by the year(No not metro but the archaic minix base is rubbish…..)
A shoddy concept that 2400mhz does not improve versus 1600Mhz applies only to games. Rendering in gimp with layers loves, shamelessly 2400mhz ram….only a matter of time before HSA or opencl arrives with 2.10.
Gabe Newell will Make it happen; easy to program games on a linux base.
Ok Joshua compare the Kaveri with just the i3. After all the i3 is as much an APU as Kaveri. And lets see who comes on top. Answer: AMD ! Keep up the AMD bashing. BTW in a market dominated by CPU intensive software Kaveri is at a disadvantage. Go figure. Yet in all the crap you write about AMD I've got to mention one unbeatable fact. Your comparing 22nm with 28nm ! Put that in your bong pipe and smoke it !
Joel Hruska
Who is Joshua?
Sorry, I meant you.
Looking forward to your response.
Joel Hruska
The integrated GPU on Kaveri is far superior to the i3. This isn't even in question. If you want to see those figures, they're in my A10-7850K review: http://www.extremetech.com/computing/174632-amd-kaveri-a10-7850k-and-a8-7600-review-was-it-worth-the-wait-for-the-first-true-heterogeneous-chip/4
I'll even give you the $ per frame comparison — bearing in mind that the A10-7850K review used different benchmarks and therefore is *not* comparable to the results quoted in this story.
A10-7850K: $4 per FPS.
Core i3-4330: $4.34 per FPS.
So yes — the A10-7850K is the better deal.
A story criticizing AMD's price/performance curve is not the same as a story "bashing" AMD. AMD's GPU products are compressed and the A10-7850K's CPU performance struggles to justify a $185 price tag. That's my opinion, but it's not a bash.
Finally: I compare products based on their price and their positioning in the market. The fact that one chip is built on 28nm and one chip is built on 22nm is irrelevant, given that I cannot buy a 22nm AMD-equivalent processor. Furthermore, it was AMD that recommended the Core i3-4330 as an appropriate comparison for the A10-7850K in the Kaveri review.
Why would you use a 7850K for a budget system where you're going to use a dedicated video card? seems pointless.
Got mine @ micro center for $129 7850k + Free MB + BF4
That there just clobbered intel's price for a budget gamer.
Vegard Gjuvsland
Why don't you show the benchmark for i3 without gfx card like you have with the kaveri?
And why didnt you show the benchmark with i3+R7250?
Seems weird.
Another benchmark shows the results with and w/o discrete cards.
Anyway: Dualgraphics doesn't seem to work well for most games, giving little or no improvement.
Only game doing better with dualgraphics is Bioshock infinite, arma 3 and tomb raider.
This benchmark used 250 and 240, not 260X.
Joel Hruska
TechSpot's review is older. They used the wrong GPU for this comparison (GDDR5 instead of DDR — AMD recommends DDR3 — and they used an earlier driver set.
Je Ydyiel
I'm a fan of AMD since the its athlon xp/sempron days. And i like the
APU setup. I have 2 internet cafes with mostly trinity and richland
setup. However due to the price increase in kaveri and faster discreet
video cards price cuts, I found i'd have more value for my money with an
intel basic setup (i3+hd 7790 or r7 260x) than with a high end kaveri.
AMD used to have the more value for money. I view the intel fan boys as sheeps. It's not the case nowadays. So sad that I have to shift to intel if I want more value for
my money. I still wanted to buy AMD but it doesn't make sense anymore.
I guess all of my new PCs will have intel inside. (unless there's a drastic cut in these kaveris)
Anuraag Aithal
Joel. There is one thing. AMD is an expert in *horrifying* people with its price variations. The FX 9590 was initially @800$. And now even the liquid cooler pack is at below 350$ – a *discount* (reduction, i mean) of over 60%. So I think AMD would soon pull down the prices to about 120-150$. That would probably make a sense. Then I think it would satisfy the budget gaming.
Secondly, I think they priced it so high because of their new technologies-Mantle, HSA, TrueAudio, etc. Anything of this kind had not been there in previous generations. Moreover Mantle can improve the perf. well – I saw in your article about improvement in theif.
Allan Wu
Correct me if I'm wrong here – but Power Consumption also is an issue considering AMD's value & price v performance ratio
And I don't think AMD when you say 'power consumption' – I kind of think of Intel as better in that field
Jon Donnelly
If I was building a budget rig, i'd skip the i3 and fit the Pentium G3420, half the price of the i3 but 80-90% of its performance. Run it at 105Mhz freq (5% boost) and add Nvidia 750Ti and clock that up too. Then when I had more cash, swap out that pentium for an i5 (k)
Abhishek Papanna
Dual graphic with APU is a joke. It actually lowers the performance compared to when the APU is run on its own. Combining i3 with a r7-250 will be cheaper (depending on your location) and will give better results than a single A10-7850K.
I am not entirely sure what the point of this article is, no one with a brain would buy a 7850K and a 260X together considering they cant be ran in crossfire and since no one will ever buy this setup your gaming cost effectiveness is way off. You defiantly come off sounding like an Intel fan boy, but lets slap in a FX-4300 at $109 and see how the i3 compares
Val Cyril Estuche Estrada
How about A6-5400K + R7 260X vs I3 + R7 260X? I suggest you try to comparing I3 cpu to its AMD equivalent in price and lets see their performance. For me, higher end APU is recommended for those who for unknown reasons does not want to buy a discrete graphics at all. If you included intel i3 in your test, why not also include A8, A6 and even A4 with R7 260x?
Joel Hruska
The point of the story was to compare Dual Graphics on shipping AMD cores against a standalone card like the R7 260X. Testing chips that couldn't use Dual Graphics at all in a modern configuration would not have served a purpose.
Val Cyril Estuche Estrada
I built AMD A10 5800k rig, Im happy with the performance of the APU alone. A month later, I dual graphics it with 6670 and got happier with the results. 3 months later I paired my A10 with R7260x, of course, it was a blast. I admit I paid more than I should have too. Of course, you'll tell me that I should have gotten I3 + 260x in the first place to be cheaper. But how about the performance of A8 or A6 + 260x setup since its much cheaper than I3? Base on your story, it looks like im gonna change my A10 5800K + R7 260X setup into I3 plus 260x.
Joel Hruska
If you're happy with your current system, than I wouldn't upgrade. You're happy with it. Why change?
My article was written for someone who was buying new hardware *regardless.*
Val Cyril Estuche Estrada
Thats why AMD APU's are better than Intel's offering if you dont want any discrete cards at all. But I agree with you that AMD dual graphics was not as cost-effective as it was supposed to be.
Joel, Most of the internet says you can't dual Graphics a 260x with the 7850k, but the chart you have above looks like it is dual graphics, or did you run it Independently?
Joel Hruska
Run independently. The dual-graphics solution is the A10-7850K + R7 250. The 260X is included to show its independent performance.
Joel Hruska
You say "No one with a brain" would buy an R7 260X and an A10-7850K, when the A10-7850K + R7 260X is the most cost-effective AMD solution you can buy.
Also, you can run the R7 260X in Crossfire. I wouldn't, since it'll be memory bandwidth starved and won't scale well, but you absolutely can.
You can not crossfire a 260X with a 7850K, a 240 and 250 yes. Learn your facts. And yes you can crossfire two 260X's, but why would you. But please point me to the article where a 260X is crossfired with the 7850K. I want you to explain to me why this such a great vaule, because a 8320 is way cheaper than a 7850K
@OP, First off, your prices are insanely off lol, this is what, 2 months ago? the r7 260x was $200 not $120, at the time. the 8350 was $200? where? swap meet? Now it's down to about $220 in about every store. the a10 7850 started at $180, not $185. now down to $150. The i3 4300 was about $155 when it was released, now down to $130. See the a10 7850 is great for the low budget gamer, because it actually gives a game decency, when used both in graphics/fps and well I guess timing. With the r9 260x costing $130 atm, and the i3 4330 costing $130 now, that is $260, but before it was more like $350/$375 for the combo compared to $180. One thing people also don't notice. Is that you can get the a10 7580 with an a88x motherboard that has decent specs added to it for a combo of $230 while the i3 4330 + r7 260x + compatible motherboard with good specs = $365/$390.
Don't think this post was correctly used.
*Btw, because someone states something isn't working right or something has an issue,
doesn't mean that product is bad, could of been a fault product… (like that for gpu's too, why the amd vr nvidia will never be either or)
A comment by someone who owns a system based upon the A10-7850K – "Recommend 2400 RAM – the reason for this is the APU and system share memory bandwidth"
Suggest you implement this suggestion and re-test.
"Acquisto prodotti per DJ online, migliaia di prodotti
in pronta consenga come consolle, mixer, cuffie, lettori
MP3, Acquisto Strumenti Musicali online, chitarre, bassi,
batterie, effetti a pedale, Acquisto attrezzature musicali
casse attive, amplificatori, studio monitor, microfoni, home recording,overvolt",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
basically, it seems that the processor cores can't even push a mediocre card like r7 260x to its max. however, they can push a crossfire between the integrated card and a dedicated one, so for a cheap PC that can still run a few things, they would do the job. AMD is seriously behind in gaming performance when it comes to processors. seriously, a 6 or 8 core is bearly gonna be used by most games out there and their quads just aren't up to the job.
I have actually run and own both of these processors and in my business experience, the AMD A10 is far more stable and much more capable at processing than the i3. The i3 can not handle multi tasking very well and usually crashes when there are two or three programs open and computing at once. The A10 will slow down if it gets large calls from multiple open programs, but it will not crash (more like the i5 and i7 quad core processors). The A10 (like the i3 and the i5) was not designed for gaming, it was designed for business computing which it does quite well.
If one is looking for a gaming processor which has superior functionality then the AMD FX processors need to be employed, especially the 8 core (such as the 8320). When the FX chips are combined with external radion graphics cards, and the correct mainboards (see AMDs list of tested hardware), then they make excellent gaming machines. I'm currently running an AMD 8320 with gigabyte FX990 board and Radion 8760 series (2gig) graphics card and it is capable of running crysis wide open at 60fps, without any overclocking. Its the match of the hardware which makes my system seamless and effective not the individual components themselves.
I find that those who experience poor performance from AMD or intel setups, usually do so because they have chosen the incorrect hardware combination, choosing some advertised or tech article component, instead of matching components as described by the manufacturing engineers. Typical bottle necks and poor performance are usually caused by the improper match of the collection of components. If one is going to use AMD components then they need to do their homework from the engineering data and technical engineers at AMD concerning selection of the proper components which correlate and will play well together.
Simply gathering a hodge podge of glittery techy components is a sure fire way to wind up with a computing system which will never perform as expected. I see this failure occur frequently, that is why I warn of its existence when some techs will never mention it. A home brew computer tech is not wiser than the engineers who design the hardware. Take advantage of their knowledge and experience and build a machine which will perform flawlessly.
Looking at the components used in this specific article (especially the use of the Asus maninboard for AMD processor) validate the use of that mainboard with AMD. I have found the GIgabyte mainboards to have far better throughput than the Asus boards, therefore this so called comparison is not a comparison at all.
For things to be compared, they must be as equal as possible, applying variance to hardware and then calling them the same, is disingenuous.
Wickedpedia PHil
Intel has been dominated the market and the game ever since it started, in a lotta countries AMD Mobo's and Cpu's are nowhere to be found,literally like 2 AMD rigs in an entire country…even in the GPU department Nvidia has been tightening Its grip on them since ever it is also worth mentioning that their radeon brand was already established before they bought it…they just can't catch a break..AMD can't make glory for themselves ..forever the underdog
actually, an intel pentium g620+r7 260x will beat the same AMD setups as graphics are mostly reliant on well, graphics card. But most APU consumers do not actually buy these processors with the intent of simultaneously buying a discrete card. They go for these to fit their low budgets (i.e. no discrete cards)
Russell Harris
I could make the same point within AMD own lineup using the Athlon x4 860K, which, is roughly $60 cheaper than the A10-7850K especially if you are adding a discrete GPU into the mix. The A10-7850K really only makes since in an HTPC that you may want to do light gaming on it and without an added GPU with a resolution of 1280 x 720 or 1360 x 768. The resolution they choose for this test is a little flawed for the setup.
This is not an accurate comparison as the Motherboards are from two different manufacturers with very different capabilities. I could understand a comparison of Gigabyte to Gigabyte or Asus to Asus but there is simply no equality between an Asus and an ultra durable Gigabyte. There was a problem with A10 7850 stability when using the Asus A88X Pro MB, which was not repaired until December of 2014. The fix was a replacement BIOS. This known stability issue makes this test of no valid conclusion.
I have personally tested the Core i3 and Core i5 against the AMD A10 and find the Quad core version of the Core i5 able to keep up with the AMD A10, but not the Core i3…ever. As a matter of fact my older core 2 duo extreme, seems far more capable than my Core i3.
For a budget gaming machine the best setup is most likely going to be the FX4130 running on a 990FX chipset gigabyte ultra durable board. This would allow the gamer to upgrade CPU and video cards later as they are financially able, without having to replace the mainboard each time. The FX chips are actually designed for gaming. As far as Intel goes, they are the big boys on the block for windows applications as their team works closely with the folks at Redmond to complement each other and pat each others back. With gaming platforms such as steam moving into Linux, it wont be long until that marriage is over.
Gamer's need to be considering their alternatives, as the gaming industry moves into the Linux playing arena and away from Microsoft.
Consider that both the most powerful gaming consoles to date, are based upon Linux and AMD, and the picture starts to become clearer as to where the industry is going.
Joel Hruska
"but there is simply no equality between an Asus and an ultra durable Gigabyte."
I used the A88 Pro motherboard for this review because that's what AMD both provided and recommended.
"I have personally tested the Core i3 and Core i5 against the AMD A10 and find the Quad core version of the Core i5 able to keep up with the AMD A10, but not the Core i3… ever."
What are you testing them in?
"As a matter of fact my older core 2 duo extreme, seems far more capable than my Core i3."
I seriously doubt that. Unless you typo'd when you said "Core 2 Duo Extreme" and meant a quad-core Core 2 Extreme. The quad-core C2E family does compete with an older Core i3-3220 in some cases, as seen here:
Anandtech's CPU bench doesn't have a dual-core C2E chip, so I picked the highest-end Core 2 Duo they do have — the E8600. It should be within 10% of the C2E family.
Note that the Core i3-3220 blows the *doors* off the fastest dual core Core 2 Duo.
This huge leap in performance was not unique to Intel. AMD's first-generation K8 is, in many ways, similar to the original K7. Its major innovations were the addition of SSE2 and some better caching algorithms. But putting the memory controller on-die meant that AMD saw an across-the-board performance jump of 15-25% in almost every scenario. Intel benefited similarly, and that's before you add the architecture enhancements.
Unless you have a very low-end Core i3 or you misspoke and meant a Core 2 Extreme quad-core, the Core i3 *will* be faster.


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text: |Sets come in vibrant colors and have a 15-inch pocket depth on the fitted sheet with a 360-degree wrapped elastic. Pillowcase and flat sheet have a 4-inch cuff. Twin Dimensions Full Dimensions Queen Dimensions King Dimensions The digital images we display have the most accurate color possible. However, due to differences in computer monitors, we cannot be responsible for variations in color between the actual product and your screen.


text:
Charlotte H. McEssy Scholarship
The Charlotte H. McEssy Scholarship was established in 1992 by Charlotte H. McEssy. Mrs. McEssy received a Bachelor of Science in Upper Elementary Education and Master of Science in Elementary Education and Reading from UW Oshkosh. A former reading specialist and elementary principal, Mrs. McEssy recognizes the importance of education in achieving success.
- The recipients of this scholarship must be part- or full-time graduate students pursuing an MS Educational Leadership degree in the College of Education and Human Services at the University of Wisconsin Oshkosh.
- Applicants for this scholarship must have attained a grade point average of 3.0 on a four-point scale.
- Evidence of involvement in extracurricular or community activities, as well as demonstration of financial need, will be taken into consideration but will not be the dominant criteria in the selection process.
Selection Process
- Applicants must submit two letters of recommendation from professors at UW Oshkosh.
- Applicants must submit a brief statement explaining why they feel qualified for this scholarship and what they foresee as their personal and professional goals.
- Applications
for this scholarship are available at the N/E 605 or here doc.
- Final selection will be made by a department committee. Mrs. Charlotte McEssy (or her representative) will serve on the committee and will participate in the selection process.
- Selection will be made early enough in the spring to allow inclusion of the recipient's name in the Honors and Awards Ceremony program.
The Award
- The award will be held at the Cashier's Office for payment against the fall semester's tuition.
- The value and/or number of scholarships will be determined annually by the committee with the UW Oshkosh Foundation and will be based upon income available for this purpose. Awards vary each year depending on how investments have done. Typically they are in the $150-$250 range.
- The principal will be conserved perpetually.
The scholarship application will be available online in late January of each year. If you have any questions, please contact Carol Botz at firstname.lastname@example.com or (920) 424-1490.


text:
God designed our bodies to heal themselves if we put the proper nutrition in them.
Keep checking back periodically,as this site is ever changing.
Thank you for your interest.
Terry and Jean Titus
In Gods Service
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Thábata began his artistic career at the age of nine performing in the circus, owned by his family. It was at this stage, we arrived to develop circus activities, which began performing as a singer. In October 2006 began a new phase in his musical career. Thábata appears nationally as an excellent choice in the market for ax. Representative of Brazilian dance music, the singer already has participated in important musical events and micaretas the country.
Read more about Thábata on Last.fm.
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Irvine, CA (SportsNetwork.com) - Chris McNealy scored 15 points, leading four starters in double figures, as the UC Irvine Anteaters dismissed the Long Island Blackbirds, 84-64, as part of the 2K Sports Classic at the Bren Events Center.
Will Davis and Mamadou Ndiaye both dropped in 12 points, the former pulling down eight rebounds and the latter shooting as perfect 5-of-5 from the floor for the Anteaters (3-2). Luke Nelson pitched in with 10 points in 18 minutes for the squad.
The Blackbirds (1-2) were paced by Landon Atterberry who tallied 14 points, followed by Gilbert Parga with 10.
LIU led for a moment early on in the meeting, but the team shot just 9-of-30 (.300) from the floor through the first 20 minutes of action, compared to 58.6 percent for the Anteaters as the hosts grabbed a 46-28 lead at the break.
In the second half the Blackbirds again struggled from the floor (.387), while UCI converted 51.6 percent in order to capture the 20-point win.
The Anteaters won the battle of the boards, 44-29, and outscored the visitors in the paint, 38-20.
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Aberdeen Caledonian Thistle Celtic Dundee United Hearts Hibernian Kilmarnock Motherwell Partick Thistle Ross County St Johnstone St Mirren
Birmingham City Blackburn Rovers Blackpool Bolton Wanderers Bournemouth Brentford Brighton & Hove Albion Cardiff City Charlton Athletic Derby County Fulham Huddersfield Town Ipswich Town Leeds United Middlesbrough Millwall Norwich City Nottingham Forest Reading Rotherham United Sheffield Wednesday Watford Wigan Athletic
LINE UPS: Tottenham's Holtby and Defoe return from injury as Soldado leads attack
TOTTENHAM field an unchanged line up from their Arsenal FA Cup third round defeat as they take on Crystal Palace at White Hart Lane.
Crystal Palace choose to lead their frontline with Marouane Chamakh and Cameron Jerome, while Spurs put their faith in the resurgent Emmanuel Adebayor and penalty scorer extrodianaire Roberto Soldado up front.
Tottenham team: Lloris, Walker, Chiriches, Dawson, Rose, Lennon, Dembele, Eriksen, Bentaleb, Adebayor, Soldado.
Subs: Friedel, Fryers, Naughton, Capoue, Chadli, Holtby, Defoe.
Palace team: Speroni, Mariappa, Gabbidon, Delaney, Parr, Bolasie, Ward, Jedinak, Puncheon, Jerome, Chamakh.
Subs: Price, Moxey, O'Keefe, Williams, Bannan, Guedioura, Gayle.


text:
Robust file copy solutions for OS X?
View Single Post
Member Since: Dec 20, 2006
Location: Lake Mary, Florida
Posts: 26,754
Mac Specs: 15" MBP, Core i7/2GHz, 8GB RAM, 480GB Crucial M500 SSD
I'm trying to do what seems like a simple enough task, but I'll be dipped if I can figure out how to make it work. I have two iTunes libraries on two separate machines. My iPod's library is on my Mac and my wife's iPod library is on her Windows laptop. I'd like to copy both libraries into a single folder on my NAS (D-Link DNS-323), which runs some form of Linux.
On the Windows machine, copying the iTunes library was no sweat at all, I just fired up Robocopy from the resource kit and dumped it to the NAS directory. On my Mac, it's been a little more of a challenge. From the errors I've seen, it has something to do with the fact that HFS allows for special characters in filenames that whatever filesystem my NAS box uses does not. And each time I start a copy and the Finder trips up, it aborts the entire copy without giving me the option to just skip the single offending file.
So, I've started to look for tools like Robocopy for OS X. So far I've found RsyncX, which looks exceedingly complicated. I've also tried PsyncX, which errors out before it even starts - my guess is that it's just not Leopard compatible. Then I found ChronoSync - looks great and should do the trick, the only problem is that the demo is limited to a few hundred files and I've got something like 2000+. Normally, I would happily pay the $30, as it seems like a worthwhile product, but at the moment, I really only foresee using it this one time.
There's got to be an easy way to copy this directory that I'm overlooking. Any advice or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Liquid and computers don't mix. It might seem simple, but we see an incredible amount of people post here about spills. Keep drinks and other liquids away from your expensive electronics!
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Finder using 110% CPU and freeze on startup
So as the title suggests I somehow broke osx. On phone now.
I was trying to delete about 20,000 picture files which were all Firefox cache crap.
Dragging to trash kinda went bad. Was moving to trash at a rate of 1 file per 20 seconds. I canceled and restarted then it was preparing to move to trash for an hour.
Com was frozen so I restarted.
Startup freeze + desktop icons don't load
Repeat 20 times
Managed to start in safe mode and open activity monitor.
Finder is using 110% CPU and if I force quit it starts again till it all freezes and I have to restart . I thought I'd let it do it's thing but now it's started. Desktop icons don't load. Everything is frozen .
I got exams and really need the con. Also done the command option p + r thing too.
Any help is appreciated thanks
Where were you deleting things from? While this doesn't explain the Finder CPU usage, it might explain some of the other problems.
Was off my external hard drive. Had used a file recovery program and all it had recovered was Firefox cache junk so was trying to delete them.
Never actually got to delete since it froze just unplugged the usb
Also am on lion with latest updates
Computer still going. No desktop icons and fully frozen . Hmm I don't think anything is going to happen. Killing finder as a prOcess does nothing either Before its frozen
This is the wIrst time for this to happen. Desperately need the com for my exams ):
Whoever comes up with a fix is my hero
Update: I think I've figured out the issue
In safe mode it lets me move mouse around a bit.
Each click takes about 5 minutes. No kidding.
There are 18,000 files on my desktop all under 1 so it looks like one.
If I somehow manage to delete them it might fix it.
But god**** I can't drag to highlight >.<
Deleted those files off desktop finally. It was slow pain.
All is good again
If a mod wants to delete this thread please do since I pretty much solved it myself and it feels like spam to me lol
Glad you got it fixed . . . and no way we should delete. Valuable info and/or lessons learned here for others.
Thanks for contributing it; sorry for your pain and aggravation. ;)
FWIW: My very first post on this Forum (4 years ago) was a problem I ran into with my router setup. I ended up solving it myself after a lot of stress and aggravation
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text:
Hold down Control (PC) or Command (Mac) key + mouseclick to select more than one option
|Avg. Dinner Entrée
|Greater than $25
|$18.01 - $25
|$12.01 - $18
|$7.01 - $12
|Less than $7
Posted by Roberta on 09/17/2014
If you're looking for that good ol' down home food, go to Saints Paradise (House of Prayer Cafeteria). They have the best food ever and it's not weighed. It reminds you of thanksgiving with all the fixins'. Everything is seasoned just right. You won't regret the trip. Lines can be long depending on what time you go, but well worth the wait. Parking is scarce, so catch the subway and walk back to try and walk the food down; portions are hefty. Enjoy!
Posted by Rev. Raedorah C. Stewart, MA on 07/11/2014
Oh, what a glorious experience! Having just relocated to DC from Boston, this was quite a treat! As much as the food was tasty, indeed, more so was the atmosphere quintessential Black church repast! Adding to the fellowship inherent to how the cafeteria is set up, there was a private family reunion being served on the patio and there was another family reunion who came through the line moments after we had been seated. I had the catfish (superb), collards (tender), cabbage (succulent), and blueberry pie (too pretty to eat until I ate it up)! Okay, the sweet tea must have been made with a dash of diabetes, but diluting it with water helped without diluting the flavor.
Posted by Anonymous on 10/23/2013
Today we went to Saints Cafe with visions of great soul food dancing in our heads. Were we in for a surprise. We did not get there late; however, there was no chicken wings, no liver & onions, no turkey wings, and no fried pork chops. The corn bread was as dry as the whiting fish. The fat had been cut off the pork chops, then smothered in gravy. The prices have increased and there is a new menu; but, all of that matters not if the food is not up to par. The Saints have marched out.
Posted by Anonymous on 07/24/2013
Makes you think of Sunday dinner
Posted by Edith Randle on 08/16/2012
I really enjoyed the food and service at Saints Paradise. I have been sharing the experience with everyone I talk to. I have a coworker that will be in the DC area and I told her that she must dine at Saints Paradise. I have no complaints just praise for the excellent service and food. Thanks again to the minister and the Saints Paradise staff.
Posted by Minister Joy on 08/07/2012
On Sunday, August 5 I took four out-of-town guests there for dinner. I initially asked them what they would like to eat for dinner. They said they want some SOUL FOOD. Immediately, I thought of Saint's Paradise. I know from experience that the food is DEFINITELY down home! My out of town guests were so thankful that I brought them to get dinner! The manager of the facility just happened to be there on Sunday and she gave personal attention to my out of town guests! That did not surprise me since she and her staff generally give that kind of attention to their normal every day customers! I love them!
Posted by VAW on 05/18/2012
Once you have visited the cafeteria once time, you are HOOKED! No place in Washington or the surrounding areas can you get good ole home style cooking, reasonable price. You also get your monies worth. I took my family and my newphew has children. He had enough food on his children's plate to divide among one child. For instance, he purchased two children's plate, but used one plate to divide between two children. We are already planning to go there on Sunday after my son's graduation. We hope to get there before they close at 6:00 p.m. My son's graduation is at 1:00 p.m., pray that we are out no later than 4:00 p.m.


text:
Predeparture orientation programs have emerged as an important tool for the protection of migrant workers for a number of Asian states. This brief examines the strengths, limitations, and areas for improvement of this intervention.
This joint Migration Policy Institute and International Organization for Migration event marks the Issue brief launch of Regulating Private Recruitment in the Asia-Middle East Labour Migration Corridor.
This report summarizes the economic and social development policy achievements of Central American countries over the past 20 years, as well as the notable obstacles to development that remain. The author identifies long-term challenges and outlines how they can be incorporated into a new development agenda.
This report investigates the reasons behind Mexico's lackluster economic growth over recent decades. The author identifies lines of argument to explain Mexico's sluggish growth, assesses the importance of these factors, and offers a road map for confronting this disappointing growth record.
This issue brief examines Asian labor migration to the Middle East—a region distinguished by its major dependence on migrant workers, the overwhelming majority from Asia. The author focuses on the role of private recruiting agencies as key facilitators of temporary labor migration and perpetrators of exploitative practices.
This report examines Canada's striking openness and optimism towards immigration and multiculturalism. Juxtaposing the widespread support of immigration among Canadian citizens with growing anti-immigrant sentiment and opposition to multicultural policies across Europe and the United States, the author seeks to uncover the reasons behind this Canadian "exceptionalism."
This brief outlines the key policy challenges governments and other stakeholders face in addressing the health needs of Asian labor migrants. It highlights the obstacles migrant workers face in accessing health facilities and services at various stages of migration, before proposing five key steps for translating the growing interest in migrant health issues to visible changes on the ground.
The launch in Bangkok of an issue brief series on labor migration in Asia undertaken by MPI and IOM with speakers H.E. Phadermchai Sasomsub, H.E. Kazi Imtiaz Hossain, H.E. Linglingay Lacanlale, Andrew Bruce, and Dovelyn Rannveig Agunias.


text:
Eldar Murtazin's tweet suggests Apple is looking to cut iPhone 3GS out of the loop.
Apple will not be making iOS 5 available for the iPhone 3GS, leaving millions of users stranded on iOS 4 when the update launches later this year. That's according to renowned mobile watcher Eldar Murtazin, who tweeted the news yesterday.
His missive on Twitter read, "Just one comment. Apple iPhone 3GS wont be upgradable to iOS 5.x. iPhone 4 will." Murtazin has a strong reputation when it comes to inside rumours about the mobile industry. He called the Nokia/Microsoft tie-up when most thought such a deal was an impossibility.
Such a move by Apple would risk alienating many older users, but Cupertino will be banking on users of the two-year-old 3GS coming to the end of their contracts and upgrading to the new iPhone 5.
The iPhone 3G initially worked with iOS 4 last summer, but following a series of problems which caused devices to become slow and unresponsive, Apple pulled support with its iOS 4.3 update.
Is Apple making the right move? Or is it at risk of annoying millions of people who are already inside its vast mobile ecosystem? Share your thoughts on our Facebook and Twitter pages.
Via MacStories


text:
TransGaming Announces Winner of the $10,000 GameTree Developer Competition: Developer's Choice Award
Developers from around the world have their say: Smiles HD takes home the prize
TORONTO, CANADA – August 31, 2011 – TransGaming Inc. (TSX-V:TNG), the global leader in the multiplatform deployment of games, today announced Smiles HD by Sykhronics Entertainment as the winner of their GameTree Developer Competition: Developer's Choice Award.
Smiles HD is an award-winning puzzle/matching game featuring inventive game modes, engaging achievements and family-friendly themes. This immersive but "snackable" game experience involves spinning, swapping and dropping smiling objects to create huge combos and even bigger scores. After incredible commercial and critical success on the iPhone and iPad, Smiles HD was easily enabled on the next generation GameTree TV gaming platform for Smart TV.
"The amazing opportunity presented by TransGaming's GameTree Developer Competition allows an independent developer such as myself to easily reach a growing market on an exciting new platform", said Michael Kasprzak of Sykhronics Entertainment. "With TransGaming's help and the GameTree TV SDK, Smiles HD was enabled on GameTree TV in a matter of hours."
"We wanted our GameTree Developer Competition to truly engage the talented independent game development community in order to be able to discover and deliver innovative and creative interactive entertainment to our GameTree TV consumers. The Developer's Choice Award gave GameTree Developers a voice to choose the best among their peers", commented Vikas Gupta, CEO and President of TransGaming. "This indie development community is creating revolutionary games like Smiles HD which we know will be enjoyed by the GameTree TV audience, and TransGaming is dedicated to finding and rewarding that talent."
About GameTree TV, a TransGaming product
GameTree TV is the premiere on-demand Smart TV gaming platform, offering an unparalleled user experience on the next generation of set-top boxes and connected consumer electronic (CE) devices. The GameTree TV Platform delivers an extensive catalog of video games that can quickly and easily be accessed on-demand. Through a flexible and seamless transaction system, subscribers can choose from a variety of pricing models billed directly through the cable provider. For more information about GameTree TV, visit http://gametreetv.com.
About TransGaming Inc.,
TransGaming, Inc. (TSX-V: TNG), is the global leader in the deployment and distribution of electronic entertainment across multiple platforms. TransGaming works with the industry's leading developers and publishers to enable and distribute games for Smart TV set-top boxes, Mac computers, and Linux/CE platforms. TransGaming is headquartered in Toronto, Canada, with offices in Ottawa and Atlanta. To learn more about TransGaming visit www.transgaming.com
TransGaming Inc. Contacts:
Jade Wilkinson
+1 415 992 4400
Jean-Francois (JF) Dube
Investor Relations - Canada
+1 877 848 8790
Adam P. Lowensteiner
Investor Relations – United States
Wolfe Axelrod Weinberger Associates LLC
+1 212 370 4500
Neither TSX Venture Exchange nor its Regulation Services Provider (as that term is defined in the policies of the TSX Venture Exchange) accepts responsibility for the adequacy or accuracy of this release.


text:
Definitions for =$word?>
The noun functioning has 1 senses? (no senses from tagged texts)
(process or manner of functioning or operating; "the power of its engine determines its operation"; "the plane's operation in high winds"; "they compared the cooking performance of each oven"; "the jet's performance conformed to high standards")
The verb function has 3 senses? (first 3 from tagged texts)
(perform as expected when applied; "The washing machine won't go unless it's plugged in"; "Does this old car still run well?"; "This old radio doesn't work anymore")
(serve a purpose, role, or function; "The tree stump serves as a table"; "The female students served as a control group"; "This table would serve very well"; "His freedom served him well"; "The table functions as a desk")
(perform duties attached to a particular office or place or function; "His wife officiated as his private secretary")
The adj functioning has 1 senses? (first 1 from tagged texts)
(performing or able to perform its regular function; "a functioning flashlight")


text:
JSesh is used and supported by the IFAO .
JSesh is featured on sun's swing sightings previews 23!
Some people have told me they had problems installing JSesh on Windows 7 or 8, running Java 1.8.
I think it's not generalized (I can certainly run JSesh on my PC running Windows 7).
(some people seems to have similar problems with other java softwares: http://ibkb.interactivebrokers.com/article/2281)
Try installing java 1.7 or 1.6 : http://www.java.com/fr/download/manual_java7.jsp
When using export as pdf, some latin text (accented text mainly) does not appear correctly.
The problem does not show with quick pdf export or copy/paste (but in fact, the text is rendered as drawing in those cases, so it's not that significant.)
I'll try to see if it's a problem with Itext or with the way I use it.
It seems to be because the font used does not have the said characters, so I need to use the user-selected font in latin pdf output.
In recent versions of JSesh, when a sign is selected in the palette by using a "phonetic" code, the software freezes when one clicks on the hieroglyph in the palette in order to insert it in JSesh.
This bug is probably quite old (as old as JSesh 6.2.0 probably). Again, don't hesitate to signal me bugs you find in the software.
Please, be accurate : a bug I can easily reproduce is probably a dead bug. So : instead of telling me
* "JSesh crashes on my new computer"
tell me :
* "When I type S42 and then "n" in the palette and select the water-sign, everything freezes."
(It's not a reproach, just a guide to speed up things. In real life, I got first the first report, then the second. And I would not have got the second without the first, so better a bad report than no report at all).
Because I can't do much about the first report (I don't have *your* computer in front of me, but, with the second description, I can try, and finally understand that the problem occurs when a) typing phonetic code in the palette and b) inserting them in the text.
avoid using phonetic codes in the palette ? (or await the bug fix, next week).
(Solved in 6.3.3)
There is a bug in the latest version of Java on the mac, which cause problems when one wants to select
a folder in JSesh (for instance for hieroglyphic fonts).
The folder selector doesn't allow to select a folder, if java is java 1.7: http://bugs.sun.com/view_bug.do?bug_id=7161437
(Short history: java used to be adapted by Apple for the Mac. Now, Oracle does the work, and apparently did not integrate all the code provided by Apple, so we lose functionalities).
It seems that, even though some version of Java 1.7 integrate a bug fix, the official line by Oracle does not.
I do hope they won't behave in the same way for Mac Look and feel in general. So, I did write a bug fix, which should appear in a future version of JSesh (say, JSesh 6.4).
(probably solved... If you meet the bug with JSesh 6.3.3 or later, please tell me). However, the folder selector is ugly.
Meanwhile, you can select a file instead of the folder, and then remove the file name.
JSesh 5.7 (probably from a version or two) doesn't record correctly the graphical format (WMF, EMF, MacPict) chosen for RTF export preferences.
So, when starting JSesh, the previous choice is not remembered. The bug has been identified and will be fixed in the next version
(mea culpa, it is due to the use of copy/paste from the line which read another preference).
get JSesh 5.8.
MdC code like
won't render correctly in PDF output, with "gray" shading (you should get a shaded owl, and you get a gray square).
This code is made with a owl sign, with a shading sign from the "shading symbol" menu over it.
The problem is that in the PDF output, I avoid transparency (for preserving CMYK colours), and the gray square is drawn over the owl.
Note that the other shading systems, quadrant based or sign based, don't have this problem.
I will fix this problem when possible.
Solved in version 5.7 for free groups, which were the actual problem pointed out to me: shading is always placed below the rest (forgot to test it for m##//).
A possible solution is to draw the shading first, like this : //##m, or to use other kinds of shadings (the quadrant shading and the "sign" menu shading work fine).
There is a bug in PDF copy/paste. Apparently, some dimensions are not right (mainly when cartouches are involved). This bug is at least as old as JSesh 5.4. (it doesn't appear in normal PDF export from the file menu).
I'm going to find the source of the problem (I suspect that the correct dimensions are not sent to the clipboard). I take advantage of this occasion to remind users that "strange" behaviour of JSesh can be a bug, and I need to know that there is a bug to correct it :-)
Use normal PDF export if you need PDF. The bug should be fixed in the next version.
Solved in 5.6/5.7
It's not a real bug with JSesh, but the latest versions of Word on the Mac no longer understand when a mix of texts and drawings is copied to them (technically, they only take the text part when you perform RTF copy/paste operations). This behaviour is not only specific of JSesh.
The problem is of course that the default way for JSesh of performing copy/paste is by using RTF. This simply won't work (unless microsoft does something about it).
Select "PDF" as your copy/paste format. it works.
When a line number contains a '-' , for instance "3-4" JSesh currently produces the following code:
which is wrongly interpreted when the text is reread.
Hence, we need to produce some non-standard code, like |3\-4- ... and read it.
For users, a possible temporary solution now would be to use some alternate character, for instance "EM DASH" — (unicode character 2014). Those characters are usually available through some kind of character palette on your system (well, I know for sure there is one on linux and on Mac).
In the "Drawing preference" tab (at least), the value of the last edited field is ignored.
This should be corrected in the next version.
Simply click in any other field after making a change and before clicking "ok".


text:
Originally posted 01/23/2010 12:00PM
Andy Dick was arrested Saturday morning in West Virginia on two felony charges of alleged sexual abuse in the first degree, police confirm.
The comedian, 44, who was in town for weekend performances at the Funny Bone Comedy Club and Restaurant in Huntington, was arraigned Saturday in Cabell County Magistrate Court.
According to the Associated Press, court documents show that the comedian is accused of grabbing a bouncer's crotch earlier in the morning at the Rum Runners bar in Huntington, WV.
Bail was set at $60,000, and Dick's preliminary hearing has been scheduled for Feb. 2.
"I have no comment for now because I'm still determining the facts of the case," Dick's attorney Jeffery Rubenstein tells PEOPLE.
This is not Dick's first run-in with the law. In 2008, he pleaded guilty to misdemeanor battery and marijuana possession in California. The plea stemmed from an incident in which he allegedly "walked up to the 17-year-old female victim, grabbed her tank top and bra and pulled them down and exposed her breasts," according to a police statement at the time of the arrest.
Andy Dick Admits Booze Makes Him a 'Moron'
Originally posted 02/06/2009 10:00AM
Seven months after his arrest for assault, public intoxication and drug possession, Andy Dick says he's learned his lesson.
"When I drink I turn into a moron," the comedian, 43, tells Entertainment Tonight. "I think I'm being funny and clever, but I look back on the video tape and I border on retardation."
Dick, who was arrested outside a bar in July and pleaded guilty to misdemeanor battery and marijuana possession in October, says that as a public figure he is "a very easy target" for ridicule.
Andy Dick Accepts Plea Deal in Drug Case
Originally posted 10/17/2008 02:00PM
Andy Dick pleaded guilty to misdemeanor battery and marijuana possession in a Murrieta, Calif., courtroom Friday, and will wear an alcohol-monitoring bracelet for one year. Two other charges against the comedian will be dropped.
Dick, 42, faced a total of four misdemeanors: battery, public intoxication and possession of marijuana and Xanax without a prescription.
"Andy is a great guy. People don't really know him and we are considering this matter closed," his attorney, Jeffery Rubenstein, tells PEOPLE. "He's looking forward to putting this matter behind him."
Andy Dick Charged with Assault, Drug Possession
Originally posted 08/25/2008 01:40PM
Andy Dick was formally charged with assault and drug possession following an arrest in July, prosecutors in Riverside County, Calif., said Monday.
The comedian, 42, faces a total of four misdemeanors: assault, possession of marijuana and Xanax (without a prescription) and public intoxication. Dick's arraignment is set for Wednesday.
He was not charged with sexual battery, because "after reviewing the evidence, we determined misdemeanor assault was the appropriate charge," said Riverside DA spokesman Ryan Hightower.
Andy Dick's Message to Fans: I'm Feeling 'Bummed'
Originally posted 08/18/2008 08:55AM
A month after Andy Dick was arrested on drug and sexual battery charges, he's telling pals he's soldiering on.
"Andy Dick is going thru it!" the 42-year-old comedian wrote in a private message sent to his MySpace friends Saturday.
Dick said that his mood was subdued. "Bummed," he wrote, posting a blue frowning face emoticon next to the message.
Andy Dick Arrested on Drug, Sexual Battery Charges
Originally posted 07/16/2008 12:45PM
Andy Dick was arrested early Wednesday outside a bar in Murrieta, Calif., on drug and sexual battery charges after he allegedly lifted a 17-year-old girl's top in the parking lot, police said.
The 42-year-old comedian, described by police as "extremely intoxicated at the time of his arrest," was later released on $5,000 bail from the Riverside County jail.
Officers responded at 1:13 a.m. to a call of a man urinating and causing a disturbance outside the Buffalo Wild Wings restaurant and bar in the community 60 miles southeast of Los Angeles.
The officers stopped a truck leaving the parking lot and witnesses identified Dick in a "curbside lineup" as one of the truck passengers who had "battered" a 17-year-old girl, according to the police statement.
Andy Dick Pleads Innocent to Pot Charge
Originally posted 06/17/2004 04:00PM
Comedian and former NewsRadio star Andy Dick pleaded not guilty to a misdemeanor marijuana possession charge on Wednesday in California's Riverside County Superior Court, the Associated Press reports.
'NewsRadio' Actor Busted
Originally posted 03/04/1999 12:00AM
Andy Dick, who plays Matthew Brock on the TV sitcom "NewsRadio," was arrested on drunk driving and drug possession charges Saturday after his car crashed into a utility pole in the ritzy Hancock Park section of Los Angeles, a police spokeswoman said Sunday. Dick, 33, allegedly fled the scene of the accident but was later arrested and booked on charges of driving under the influence and possessing a controlled substance (cocaine and marijuana, a policewoman said). Dick was released after posting $10,000 bail. A court appearance on the charges is set for May 25.
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Alphabet Challenge - Round 4
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Stazon Splitcoast
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wisconsin
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Yay for Lauren, great way to start the game. G'morning ladies, how is everyone doing? I didn't get a chance to get to cleaning my stamping room because Ron wanted me to go out with him so I did. Ugggg..so today will be clean the stamproom day...I hope. It is such a mess because I wrapped all my Christmas stuff in there. Pretty soon I will be taking down Christmas decor..waaaaa.. Ron says it looks like Santa threw up in here. I have to tell you what I did for decorations above my cabinets. I have a little room between them and the ceiling so I first put a snow blanket down then I took a Nutcracker dude and placed him up there then I took empty gift boxes (with all different designs on them) and put them around the nutcracker dude then I took some silver ornaments and scattered them all over up there I finished it with lighted garland. It looks awesome. I also wrapped my wall hangings this year and placed them back on the wall so that it looks like presents on the wall. It really does look good in here I hate to take it all down. But I have to so.....well ladies, I shall return I am in the gallery this morning. Huggs
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