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Reverse engineered PS4 APU reveals the console's real CPU and GPU specs
- By Joel Hruska on November 20, 2013 at 4:33 pm
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The PlayStation 4 and Xbox One may not offer an enormous jump over last-generation graphics out of the gate, but the SoCs inside the consoles — semi-custom APUs made by AMD — are a huge leap forward in terms of integration and capability. Both consoles integrate functionality that was previously broken out into multiple chips, using the most advanced 28nm process currently available. A new teardown of the PS4 gives us a look at how the SoC itself was assembled — and how Sony chose to hedge its bets a little when it came to yield. (For some real-world speed comparisons between the Xbox One and PS4, watch our exclusive side-by-side speed test video.)
Chipworks has published multiple die photos of the SoC, and they show us some very interesting things about how the chip was built.
First off, this should settle, beyond any question, exactly which CPU architecture the processor is based on. Despite continuing claims from some that the SoC must contain a higher-end Kaveri/Steamroller-class CPU, the tiny x86 cores implemented here are clearly based on Jaguar/Kabini. Each core is roughly 3.1 millimeters square — exactly the size AMD gave for that chip. The large (rather plaid) boxes in each quad-core arrangement are the L2 cache. Memory I/O wraps all three sides of the die, which makes sense — the SoC itself uses a GPU-style memory layout. It's not clear from this diagram whether HSA is implemented on the chip or not, though it might be possible to identify the IOMMU unit that HSA requires with a close analysis.
Speaking of the SoC, this is one big puppy.
Die size on the chip is 328 mm sq, and the GPU actually contains 20 compute units — not the 18 that are specified. This is likely a yield-boosting measure, but it also means AMD implemented a full HD 7870 in silicon. According to Chipworks, the GPU is 88 mm sq, and takes up about a third of the total die. Looking at AMD's published figures for the HD 7870, however, the Pitcairn GPU core is a 228 mm sq part. So which is correct? Probably both. Chipworks is only counting the cores as part of the GPU, whereas the full Pitcairn die contains memory controllers, audio processing blocks, video encode/decode hardware, the PCIe 3.0 bus interface, and a number of other low-level silicon blocks that increase total die size. The actual streaming processors are only one component.
If you ever wondered how Chipworks reverse-engineers chips to get these die shots, incidentally, read this story: How to crack open some computer chips and take your own die shots.
The Wii U's design was a bit prophetic
One of the interesting things about the PS4's design is how closely it echoes the Wii U's design. While the PS4 is far, far more powerful than the Wii U, Sony made very similar decisions about where to spend its transistor budget. As some of you may recall, the Wii U's GPU is far larger than its CPU — the latter is a triple-core version of the Broadway core that powered the Wii (which was, itself, a higher-clocked version of the GameCube CPU). The GPU, while still underpowered by current standards, integrated far more computational horsepower than the old Hollywood GPU inside the Wii.
If you look back at die sizes for the PS3 and Xbox 360 era, the CPU and GPU were very nearly equal partners. The PS4 on 28nm is still a third larger than the integrated PS3 on 40nm — if both were built at 28nm, the PS4 would be twice the size of its predecessor. This also helps explain the tension between pushing more graphics horsepower into the next generation and the need to ship a product, period. Beefing up the PS4 further would have cost more and made the chip more complex. Waiting for 20nm, when costs were more manageable, would have meant waiting a year or more while TSMC ironed out the bugs in its process. Giving the Xbox that kind of lead time was likely untenable to Sony executives.
Sony will almost certainly take the PS4 through the same die shrink process that characterized the PS3, but not for at least a year — TSMC is set to begin volume production of 20nm starting in Q1 2014, but won't be ready to transition a part as complex as this one for quite some time.
[Image credit: Chipworks, Wired]
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Matthew Bryant
Always a pleasant surprise when you find out your beefy console is a little more beefy than you thought it was.
Joel Hruska
Well, those other two CU blocks aren't enabled, though Sony might find a way to use them at some point.
Those extra 2 compute units for redundancy wont be activated. Every ps4 soc of the line would have to be perfect for this to happen. They already have the overhead of 4 cus for gpgpu or normal gpu so it wouldn't be necessary.
What, you mean the redundancy blocks that are disabled because of yield issues, LOL @ you paupers.
ryan dungey
i think you will find that the xbox one has disabled cu's so the xbox one has yield issues according to your logic
Jack Slater
Paupers tell you :
Gtfo, sob.
Pixel Junkie
Nothing beefy about either console, they're both low-mid ranged laptop/tablet apu's
Will Greyland
Read the article. The APU inside of it is far more powerful than ANY APU currently on the market.
FireFox Bancroft
Only on the GPU side of things, however most developers are only using the CPU side for computing and the GPU side for graphics.
Hopefully the ps4 will last as long as the ps2 did.
It won't, it's less powerful than a mid end PC.
Yes, it wont last as long as PS2 or PS3.
But I am going to put my foot down and say that PS5 and Xbox Two will have backward compatibility. There is no explanation as to why they went for x64 architecture as opposed to some custom build.
PS4 and Xbone is start of an era just like iOS and Android. They will build an ecosystem by providing backward compatibility going forward.
Kenshi Ryden
Haven't heard this thought before- nice call. I can imagine that. Increased BC and persistently cross-platform networks and resources will be consistent for the rest of time, most likely.
Some fool on Kotaku was saying that PS+ free games are useless because the PSN will be down in five years. I literally lol'd.
While backwards comparability is certainly desirable and welcomed I suspect the real reason for the choice is simply performance and support due to the powerful and ubiquitous nature of the x86 processor.
As much more sense as the APU makes, I'm kinda bummed that they didn't use POWER or PowerPC (although I'm sure that Devs are happy). One of the things that really gets my nerd juices flowing is the exotic hardware that used to be in consoles and the compute power that it offered. Now it's just a midrange PC. I could have seen some of the low-yield throwaway POWER7s having a few cores disabled and resold to Sony to be the CPU with a custom GPU tied in.
Oh well. The APU makes so much more sense and is so much more practical.
One thing I would like to mention is that with the swap to general PC architecture and instruction sets with very similar API coming from both Sony and AMD (in regards to Mantle and TrueAudio) we should see MUCH better optimization on general PC hardware in the coming couple of years.
Oh, that is a really good point. The code as far as machine language and instruction sets used would be much easier to pet over to PC now. I noticed that COD Ghosts and BF4 for example run smoothly after patches. They run much better than previous versions of COD. BF3 I guess ram pretty well before too.
Just wait until the developers start investing real levels of effort into these things.
even indie devs are saying it is super easy to port between the ps4 and pc.
And while the xbox one may not be quite as direct (mainly due to OS loops and the ES ram) it is still working from the same architecture and most games that will be ported to pc will be multi plat anyway.
Ontop of this because of the ease of porting bigger developers have stated that they intend to work on PC as their main platform and port to the other two platforms this time around because of the sheer ease of workflow.
The only thing left now is to have cross-platform multiplayer games. I really wish PC players could pay COD for example with Xbox and PS players. Are there any games like that yet? Yeah, on PC people are a bit faster but consoles have auto aim and some people are really good with the controllers. I always end up buying games twice now. Half my friends play PC and half PS. I don't play that much buy when I do I want to enjoy it so I keep buying them and the hardware. Lol
The biggest issue is a middling pc gamer is usually about as good as a decent console gamer.
It would create an attitude that developers would like to avoid.
Even with autoaim sadly.
There are some cross plat games coming though.
War Thunder will have cross-platform PC/PS4 play when it launches on Nov 29, and Warframe has the same I think (Warframe is coop only, while War Thunder is coop and competitive), so it'll happen. Mouse/kb is too damn casual and accessible to make it fair when pitched up against a controller though in a shooter – very hard to compete with the "point and click" ease of it all – would have to keep 'em separate, I'd say.
On the subject of cross-platform multiplayer, I know Portal 2 has cross-play between ps3 and PC, and long before that the Dreamcast had the world's first cross-platform with Quake 3 PC vs Dreamcast multiplayer.
James Cole
The problem with cross platform on games like cod is the different controller mechanics. Pc players use a mouse to aim which can aim as fast as you want. Ps dualshock has a lot less sensitivity and most people struggle to have control at higher sensitivities. Standard is 5 or 6 from memory. I have mine on 18 mind.. and autoaim is useless except those who are spraying automatic weapons. I only carry one weapon, either a sniper or marksman so auto aim doesnt kick in right away anyway. If I miss, I die. Still, kd is 2.4.
I'm all for cross-platform as long as microphones are disabled.
Michele Gurrado
According to me, ibm power7 technology is better than kabini cpu because of risc capabilities. As far as i know (correct me if i'm wrong), the integrated risc architecture should be completely programmable via firmware, so new feature could be included or excluded as needed.. isn't it?
Well, I'm no engineer, but I've been into technology for years, so take what I say with a grain of sodium chloride, but as far as the superiority of POWER, it isn't really the ISA alone that will make or break an arch, it's the implementation and, more importantly, the software support. In reality, AMD and Intel don't really build CISC or even X86 processors at all. The X86 instructions are actually kind of emulated on a native RISC-like processor. The concepts behind this are still a bit wishy-washy to me, but that is my oversimplified understanding of how things work.
Now, for the programibility question, to my current understanding, RISC is no more reprogrammable than CISC, although having a few instructions that can be put together to make more complex instructions seems like it could be made more flexible and efficient than trying to create an instruction for every situation that could ever arise.
Obviously you aren't someone who ever had to code for PS3's cell.
http://www.funstufftosee.com/ Dozerman
The people who have actually written software for it don't share you sentiments:
Those whole "cell" is hard to program rumors were based on complaints about the cell assembly code.
Was it easier to code for the 360 or the PS3?
http://www.funstufftosee.com/ Dozerman
The 360 is what I heard, but does it really matter? Most everything these days relies on a runtime and libraries to abstract the complexities away from the game devs. The people who write the low level code are the ones worrying about architecture peticularities.
In other words: you don't really know.
http://www.funstufftosee.com/ Dozerman
No, I have never written software for a CELL processor, but the guy in the post I linked has. I don't know what you're getting at here, but it isn't even related to the post that I originally wrote.
Look, new ways of doing stuff may be interesting, but unless you have a very good reason to change things, it's better to leave them as they are. Cell had a steep learning curve and made developing multi-platform games much harder and costly. The whole Cell processor was a mistake for a games console.
http://www.funstufftosee.com/ Dozerman
How is that statement any different than my original post?
Ken Luskin
LOOK at all the outside areas labeled : SHARED memory controller.
hUMA or SHARED MEMORY is the KEY innovation in HSA.
hQ or heterogeneous QUEUING is also in AMD's new Kaveri chip. But, as the below article points out:
>>>"AMD's current hQ implementation uses hardware-based scheduling to manage how the CPU and GPU access those queues. However, that approach may not be required by the final HSA specification. Although hQ is definitely part of the spec, AMD says the OS could get involved in switching the CPU and GPU between the various task queues."<<>>"At least initially, Windows will be the only operating system with hQ support. AMD is working with Linux providers, and it's also looking into supporting other operating systems."<<<
The above quote would indicate that the new Xbone APU from AMD also fully supports HSA architecture.
AMD's new Kaveri chip could be a HUGE winner, if in fact windows 8 is supporting the HSA architecture.
It would makes sense that MSFT would want to beef up GRAPHIC support.
The only thing that really separates a PC from the low power mobile ARM devices is high end GRAPHICS!
Plugged in devices can provide the juice required to do run AMAZING GRAPHICS.
Use your IMAGINATION… HOLOGRAMS combined with powerful voice and GESTURE controls, and then you have science fiction visions, that ALWAYS end up becoming reality.
The Dick Tracy video watch phone is only a few years away…..
Powerful video games are just the tip of INNOVATION iceberg, that will be produced from tapping into the POWER of the GPU.
You know I wouldn't have taken you seriously unless you put random words in caps like that. Kudos.
Kenshi Ryden
It was such a great comment. I just had to upvote him.
Winston Smith
Lol I just noticed his avatar, the all-seeing eye… this is one special little man.
You know I wouldn't have taken you seriously unless you put random words in caps like that. Kudos.
HEY look at the DROOL around your MOUTH!!!!
Here's a QUOTE from WIKIPEDIA: "The third stage is the paralytic stage and is caused by damage to motor neurons. Incoordination is seen due to rear limb paralysis and drooling and difficulty swallowing is caused by paralysis of facial and throat muscles.This diables the victims ability to swallow, which causes saliva to pour from the mouth also the reason bites are the most clear way for the infection to spread is because the virus is most concentrated in the throat and cheeks causing major contamination to saliva. Death is usually caused by respiratory arrest.[1]"
That was about RABIES! You have RABIES!
Michael Norris
You don't quite get it,Esram is a huge issue for HSA everything needs to be unified memory.Ps4 has high bandwidth which is needs for HSA while the Xone has much lower bandwidth thanks to DDR3.MS really did a bang up job on Xone,Sony is a hardware company and it shows.
Ken Luskin
>>>"At least initially, Windows will be the only operating system with hQ support. AMD is working with Linux providers, and it's also looking into supporting other operating systems."<<<
Windows support for Kaveri HSA innovations combined with MANTLE API= AMD DOMINANCE
FREE mobile games have created a HUNDREDS of additional gamers, who will want to GRADUATE up to AAA leagues.
PEOPLE LOVE to PLAY VIDEO GAMES!
AMD will DOMINATE the TV console chip market!
MSFT realizes that DIFFERENTIATING factor between a plugged in PC/console and a low power ARM device is GRAPHICS.
MSFT will begin to favor AMD's GRAPHIC based innovations over Intel's flat lining CPU performance.
The GREEDY PIGS MORONS on Wall st are short 122 MILLION shares of AMD..
Its the PERFECT TIME to these PIGS into a VICE and slowly tighten it down, until SHORTY's head explodes.
And they drive the stock through the roof trying to cover…..
Sounds good to me , I bought in AMD at 2.48/s last yr
Lag-Fighting Tactics
We did want a gaming foucs unit and Sony delivered at 1080p machine.
Microsoft selected the budgeting weak gpu for it's uses.
because it want it's users "balanced" between visting the app store , Skyping and 720p budgeting gaming.
Maybe some XB1ers did want a powerful media machine and they're telling the truth. Maybe some PS4ers wanted a powerful gaming machine and they're telling the truth. Maybe some XB1ers wanted a powerful gaming machine and are disappointed. Maybe some PS4ers wanted more media integration with their console and are disappointed. Maybe all the above statements are true. Maybe all the above statements are false. Maybe in an attempt to answer those two questions, your brain, in an effort to use as little effort as possible, has grouped the millions of individuals around the world who purchase these consoles into two stereotypes; those who have PS4 and those who have XB1 and don't want to admit they don't have a PS4. Maybe the more rational way to go about it is to say maybe the first 4 statements are sometimes right. Maybe the first 4 statements are sometimes wrong.
Kenshi Ryden
Amazing comment, except "in an effort to use as little effort as possible."
Incredible redundancy logic haha.
Dale Peters
Maybe she's born with it. Maybe it's Maybelline.
Kevin Malone
"we", "xboners"… you feelin alright?
I wondered who he was referring to when he said 'we' as well. Kind of reminded me of the Borg.
Dude you are really exaggerating the whole 720p thing on the xbox one. Its only 4 of the almost 20 launch games on the Xbox one that are running 720p. Also the whole we could do Ryse at 1080p easily thing.
Who is we? Do you work for Crytek? The head of Crytek said himself if Ryse were on Ps4 they would have chosen 900p as the resolution. U know like Bf4.
This whole stupid fanboy bullshit you are spewing calling people "xboners" and saying the xbox one hardware is weak really shows your wealth of knowledge about hardware.
Both the xbox one and the ps4 are quite a big step up from last gen systems. They are closer in specs than any 2 consoles have ever been. They both have advantages on the hardware side and the ps4 is obviously a little easier to program for. The Xbox one has plenty of gpu grunt to do games at 1080p once developers get accustomed to its memory setup we should see most future titles at 1080p or 900p. Just so you know though you might not want to hang all of your hope on either system's games being 1080p in 3 or 4 years. Just like last gen devs will sacrifice resolution for better pixel quality to keep the graphics ability of both machines looking fresh. Get over the fanboy BS and just be a gamer
Dont agree with the closer in specs than any 2 consoles have been at all. 360 and PS3 were closer so to was the gamecube and original xbox
jajajaja call of duty ghost at 720p on ps4 without day one patch jajajaja 50% pfffffffff wait for the real specs of xbox one next week, u will leave this page
Lag-Fighting Tactics
real specs? like the secret second gpu that is that powerful
forza 5 had a down grade too cut out crowds.
it is also 720p on ps4 wihtout patch and blackflag is 900p without patch.
yeah only 3 games at 720p and the rest at 1080p lol fagboy
Joel Hruska
Watch your language please.
Zach Dolbeare
PS4 could only manage BF4 at 900p native; it just can't pull off 1080p.
and barelly high settings, dont forget that. its not very high or ultra but its 60 fps, its better to be 60 fps than shadowfail that goes to 28-30-36-38 all the time, thats not smooth framerate.
Scott Vater
Shadow Fall is limited to a 30FPS minimum. I've never noticed any sub-30FPS in my play through. Hey, at least it's 1080p and over 30 frames per second most of the time. I'd take that over 720p and a hard locked 30FPS (or lower on average if we look at Dead Rising 3) any day!
Digital foundry showed that it can go under 28 fps.
For all the 1080p and AA shadowfall has dead rising 3 has less jaggies at 720p and steadier framerate.
Judging by dead rising 2, you dont need a high framerate in that game.
Id take gameplay over graphics anyday.
ryse cant run 1080p on ps4 either according to crytek, they could do 1080p but they improved in other areas eg character faces.
Scott Vater
I doubt that. If they took the same graphics as the Xbox One version and ported those to the PS4 it could DEFINITELY do 1080p with most likely a higher average frame rate. Of this I have ZERO doubt despite what Crytek says (who obviously have to be MS/X1 friendly considering it's an exclusive – wouldn't be wise for them to do otherwise). Think about it…you honestly don't think 384 more shader cores couldn't handle a bump from 900p to 1080p? Of course they could. Crytek is lying, plain and simple.
Pixel Junkie
Just get a PC and stop your petty arguments
But where is the HD VR headset. Will it take another century?
You need to look here: (valves iteration on vr more will be detailed soon, I'm excited though its valve)
Or here: (really good kick starter vr will only be available to android and pc, good prices)
Or here: (but these aren't anything more than projecting a display in front of you. And super expensive)
For really good vr you will need over 1080p with well over 100fps to have what most would consider enough to forget the old ways of gaming. But still this tech is only right around the corner. My advice wait to see what's going on with steams vr and then start building towards what you will most likely need to be able to run it. Begin slowly now and when the stuff hits the market you will be ready to drop down whatever amount for the vr headset.
justin b
Some wattages: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28830227-PS4-watts-standby-vs-downloading-vs-playing-vs-streaming-etc
pretty frugal, considering a full size card of similar power would need a 500w power supply.
Ken Luskin
The HSA innovations in the AMD APU are a whole NEW chip architecture, that will revolutionize computing.
There is a reason that ARM, QUALCOMM, SAMSUNG, TI, Media Tek, and AMD are FOUNDERS of the HSA foundation.
The HSA innovations are the best kept secret in computing.
Over the next few years, the HSA innovations that AMD is spearheading will produce massive market share gains, that build on top of their TV console dominance.
Wall st. and most journalists are totally asleep…..
Joel Hruska
Nah. Power supply recommendations for GPUs are hugely overstated to avoid someone making an mistake and blowing something up. The standard 7870 has a 150W maximum TDP, but they recommend a 500W PSU for it.
When you consider that the CPUs are Kabini-based, about 100W of that power consumption is likely GPU. And that's about what I'd expect for a 7850. It's a good design, but it's not dramatically less than I'd expect from a similar PC configuration.
justin b
yes a 500w psu doesn't run all rails at full bore.
gpu "full bore" watt estimates from pc benchmarks are done by subtracting idle usage from peak usage. Idle on Ps3 is 70 watts (includes fan & HDD running as well), and current gaming peak is 120w, so by PC card measurement standards, the gpu is about ~50w, not 100w.
Joel Hruska
Those components draw very little power. The HDD and all fans will be under 15W. When I say GPU, I'm also counting RAM.
justin b
this is undoubtably flogging a dead horse but I'd like to point out that the benefits of system on a chip are still very clear. Around here peak electricity price are about 50cents / kw! A steambox (no SOC) would guzzle power. Specs suggest a 400 watt draw for a GTX Titan equipped one up to valve specs. And for what? there are only so many shader effects you can pack into the same res and same 60 frames.
Also I wager there are plenty of power states as yet unexplored by the 1.0 firmware.
Joel Hruska
There should certainly be better states to explore out of this, but you're wrong in thinking this is magic SoC power savings. With a modern PSU, my Haswell system idles at about 40W with a high-end AMD GPU in it, thanks to ZeroCore. (Monitor off = GPU off).
Now what about loads with comparable GPUs?
As low as 143W for the GTX 650 Ti, 185W for the Ti Boost. The 7790 is in between. But remember, Kabini is explicitly a low-power core. It's more like Bay Trail than any of the big core x86 chips.
If we assume that about 30W of CPU power is eaten up in that discrepency, we predict a very reasonable 113W – 155W final draw for the x86 system. And is that higher than the Xbox One or PS4? Yes it is. It's still significantly higher. But it means the SoC power savings are on the order of 20% or so.
Definitely real. Definitely an advantage. But not enormous.
Pixel Junkie
Dudes are comparing a laptop apu to proper desktop hardware (somebody mentioned a GTX titan?). Console users lol
Lag-Fighting Tactics
Xboners are still in denial.
50% More power 1080p vs 720p.
Soon Xboners will be in the acceptance stage as they slowly start Skyping and surfing the app store more in stead of budget 720p gpu gaming.
Then finally help Microsoft collect their tv viewing habits like they have been told too from day one in the media box.
50% more power, and this isn't even my final form!!
I don't think anyone can argue hardware, Sony is a hardware company, they know their stuff and their hardware IS superior. With that said, I can't wait to see what Microsoft DOES with their hardware. Even their original plans weren't that bad. While Sony must rely on the hardware, software will drive Microsoft- they point I'm making is "Dead Rising 3's promise of no load times", if that's true (and inevitably adopted for most games) then its head and shoulders above what Sony could pump out.
Lag-Fighting Tactics
closer too 60%, kinect sucks 10% up.
Scott Vater
Are you being sarcastic? MS is a software company, yes, but so far the X1 software has been pretty bad all things considered. I'd take Sony's custom Linux OS and bare metal capable API over MS's triple concurrent OS's and Direct X API ANY day. What MS will do with the hardware is exactly what any educated person would guess. It will get better games over time but the PS4 will still and ALWAYS remain on top. Period. Hell, the X1 can't even handle more than one download at a time…PS4 has no issue with multiples. Is that MS showcasing superior software? I don't think so.
Also the comment about the X1 having no load times is a joke…you seriously think the PS4 couldn't do the same? I mean, it's not like it doesn't have more advanced hardware or anything…
I hope the PS4 does the same, but the conference in March where microsoft was emphasizing their servers- this is what got me thinking this, then the dead rising 3 announcements. Turns out it was just misinformation and delusions. Apparently both systems have load time, and that's one thing I wish was cut down in this new generation.
Abba Okoro
Because downloading from a choked network is….going to make things faster? hmmm
Scott Vater
Choked network? How about you learn what you're talking about.
Scott Vater
Choked network? How about you learn what you're talking about.
Abba Okoro
It's being used by +1m users at the same time
Windows Azure even crashed from the pressure
Pixel Junkie
er, both your consoles are x86 based, meaning neither use proprietary hardware. you'll probably find their motherboards are both manufactured by foxconn, their apu by amd/ati, and their harddrives by maxtor/seagate or western digital. Stop thinking your stupid consoles are so precious and unique. They just mid-ranged PC's. And btw, until you see PC games running on solid state drives with zero load-time, don't expect it for your consoles.
PC master race, yadda yadda. I get it. 2 years they'll be obsolete, gotcha. That's not what I was getting at. No matter how powerful computers are, if you want Halo- play on an xbox. That's what I mean by what microsoft does with their hardware. PCs will have their own games- even better games- but we all know the real reason people still buy consoles. Aside from that their friends own 'such and such', there are exclusives. Xbox one boasts it supports 8 players- I really am looking forward to seeing that realized. The Wii only accomplished that with like 3 games and then gave up. PS3… meh~
Xbone180'd, and Xbone720p'd.
Nice, PS4 lookin' good.
Finally the gpu is confirmed to be an hd7870
Joel Hruska
Presumably a slightly modified one, but yes.
I know it's a modified one but now we know that it's based on the 7870 and not the 7850.
Just game on a pc much better plus you can cross fire 2 amd 7870's for about $260 and smoke a ps4 while connecting your ps3 controller for gaming bottom line now that the next gen is using x86 tech no more crappy pc ports and the only reason to own a console is for 1st part titles which i why i bought a wiiu but to each their own
Joel Hruska
Two R 9 270s will set you back $340, not $260.
Not R270's HD 7870 here is a link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127722
it will be $320 before rebates but still you can put 1 of those cards in your pc and still get the graphics of a ps4 just saying
i don't know why this needs to be explained like it's not the most obvious thing in the world, but – consoles are closed systems, and benefit from custom hardware beyond the specs of their cpu/gpus. this means they can be optimized beyond what would be capable when coding for pc.
even now, at launch – where a new consoles graphics are always at their worst – games like killzone shadow fall on ps4 (and hell, even ryse on the weaker xbox one) looks as good as anything a 7870 pc could push.
Scott Vater
True, but with Mantle right around the corner and more and more game developers using it (which is quite a few honestly) I see AMD desktop hardware getting a pretty nice boost over all. I'm not saying a single 7870 will be able to MATCH a PS4, but I do think it'll be within reach of over all graphic fidelity.
yeah, i'm pretty intruiged by mantle, i hope it lives up to it's promise.
Pixel Junkie
And I don't know why THIS has to be explained like it's not the most obvious thing in the world, but 1) according to moore's law, pc hardware doubles in performance every two years, 2) a PC user could install a GTX780 right now and absolutely obliterate the PS4 and Xbox COMBINED, 3) A far superior card next year will cost the same as the 7870 this year, and 4) console fanboys swallow this optimization bullshit hook line and sinker. As an ex x360 developer I can assure you optimization means using the cheapest methods of anti-aliasing, forgoing expensive processing tasks like ambient occlusion where possible, lowering texture resolutions, and using bump-maps to replace as many actual polygons as possible. Console developers use cheap 'tricks' to replace the more accurate, processing heavy calculations PC games perform. Your average console user seems not to grasp this
As someone with supposed dev experience, you should be well aware of the fact that moore's law hasn't applied to performance in YEARS. Compare a top of the line cpu from not even 2, but 4 years ago with one today – the power increase is something like 20%. Gpus are faring a bit better, but still aren't hitting moore's 'double performance every 2 years.' The only real strides being made are in size and power consumption, and the fact that you're not even ware of that pretty much negates anything else you have to say.
But while I'm here – comparing the power of a $400 console to that of a 780, which would cost $800 – 1000 to build a rig around, is just silly. That a 2x-the-cost machine would be twice as powerful as the cheaper one is hardly a revelation.
Pixel Junkie
I wasn't referring to a GTX 780, that would make your consoles look like a toy. I'm referring to AMD's 7870.
And yes, graphics processing performance is pretty close to moore's law. And yes, $600 will build you a more powerful rig than any of these consoles.
Oh, and follow that trend for the next 5+ years, your $400 console will be the equivalent of one of those old Pentium 4's running windows XP that you find in old people's houses.
except a 7870 doesn't actually make consoles look like a toy. i own one, and even the best looking games out now can't outmatch the fidelity of games like shadow fall, ryse, or second son. so again, comparing a $600 system that can't outmatch a $400 one's real world output is hardly a valid argument. and no – moore's law does not apply to gpu's. look at early 2012's best – a gtx680. now compare it to a titan. you're looking at about a 50% increase in power, two years later. that's not "pretty close".
Pixel Junkie
Are you retarded? The 7870 I was referring to for comparison purposes, the GTX 780 I referred to is showing what current PC's are CAPABLE of. Secondly, something looking good and actual performance are two different things. Something can be made to look good using cheaper rendering techniques – low-quality anti-aliasing, drop more subtle but processor intensive things like ambient occlusion, and reduce particle counts, replace actual polygons with bump-maps. So you can go on about how good ryse looks, but the point is if it were released on PC it would look BETTER. This isn't an argument about how well a developer can make their game look using cheaper rendering techniques, this an argument that a similarly priced PC outperforms consoles in terms of RAW power.
e.g. my GTX660oc runs thief full graphical settings (some of which are already disabled on 'next-gen' consoles, at 1080p @ 60fps, the PS4 struggles with 30fps, and the XBone struggles at 900p). So you have to be pretty stubborn to keep insisting that the consoles are so powerful. Be realistic, look at the shitty old hardware in them, and just accept it dude. You're arguing against math and physics. And no, developers learning to optimize their code in the coming years does NOT eclipse the performance gain of newer hardware. There are enthusiast PC's out there already rendering at 12k resolutions at high frame-rates, while your console will stuck at 1080p for the next 4 years. Catch a wake up dude.
Also, you refer to things like Ryse, when PC gamers are starting to get games like Star Citizen (supporting 4k resolution, and 10x the polygon counts of games such as ryse – the developer himself has said this type of fidelity is not even possible on consoles). Secondly the Titan was release about a year and 3 months after the 680. So yes, it IS pretty close. You're also forgetting PC's can accept up to 4 graphics cards in SLI.
i can tell that the fact that cheaper consoles can provide similar experiences to more expensive hardware is something that causes you a lot of torment. i'm really sorry you're so invested in this – the anguish exuding from your comments is heart wrenching.
the bottom line is, despite your hilarious sputtering, a $400 console can match, and sometimes outperform, a more expensive PC. again, i'm very, very sorry that this hurts you so much. you'll endure, somehow.
Pixel Junkie
Dude, the only thing that causes me torment is your stupidity
dude, i feel so sorry for you and your impotent rage. to be so bent out of shape about the power of a $400 console vs a $600 pc is one of the saddest things i've seen in a while. keep your chin up, little buddy.
James Cole
Not sure I agree. 1st party exclusives like the last of us, and to a lesser extent, non exclusives like gta V looked shit hot on 2007 hardware with only 256 mb of ram available. Seems pretty well optomized to me. Ive got an off the shelf i7 pc with reasonable specs and to the layman like me, pc gaming is a bitch to get running properly. That being said, depending on what results on the vr front in 2 days at gdc, if sony want a grand for an inferiour to oculus hmd like their hmz series, I'll be selling the ps4 and pc and putting about 1500 to 2000 into a gaming machine + oculus. Any extra expense will be made up for with cheaper steam games.
Pixel Junkie
I agree on selling your ps4 and the cheaper steam games. However, while a game might look good to a console gamer with nothing to immediately compare with, having put ps3/x360 and pc games side-by-side, the PC versions at highest settings always look significantly better, and run smoother. However, the point I'm getting across is, although most console gamers won't notice it, cheaper methods of rendering are used. For gamers who consider graphics very important, it matters that their game runs at no less than 1920 x 1080 @ 60fps, and they notice things like reduced texture sizes and the inclusion of technologies such as PhysX, etc.
In terms of VR, while I'm sure sony CAN produce an impressive VR unit, it will be limited by the PS4 performance (read: max 1920×1080 @ 30-60fps) Whereas recent reports suggest oculus have already produced a successor to crystal cove targeting 1440p, which means for the next 5 years, sony are already behind. Can you imagine a ps4 coping with 4k resolution? I guarantee oculus will have that headset available before the end of the PS4's life cycle.
Pixel Junkie
why would you need two R9 270's in order to compete with consoles crappy laptop apu's. A single GTX660 will more than do the job, at 1080p 60fps+
Joel Hruska
I never said you would. I responded to his statement, nothing more.
Joel Hruska
Two R 9 270s will set you back $340, not $260.
People buy consoles because they like consoles.
Its like telling someone to buy motorcycle instead of a car.
Pixel Junkie
You mean it's like telling someone to buy a car instead of a motorcycle
Yannick Lapointe
Meanwhile a ps4 is 399$ for a FULLY FUNCTIONAL SYSTEM.
Try to build a 399$ rig, psu, cpu, mthrboard, grphx card, ram, hdd, case, keyboard and mouse. It have to be similar in term of perf in BF4.
Then your "just game on pc" will be more credible.
Oh and BTW, I own a top notch gaming pc(2700$ budget) AND a ps4…so whats your point?
..and good for you for your wiiu, but im kinda tired of the same old regurgitated Nintend ip, their lack of creativity is too blatant for my taste..but I still own a 3ds just in case the stop to rely on the auto-pilot
Scott Vater
AMD's new APU's will change this though. With their product line of the next year having APU's with more powerful built-in GPU's and CPU's than what's in the Xbox One I think the $399 gaming PC rig is coming closer and closer to reality. AMD's APU's will be BLOWING by even the PS4 in two years time…which is what, a quarter of that consoles life span? Six years before the PS5? Especially, above all things, with new PC tech like Mantle, HSA, and hUMA coming out as well. AMD is doing these things for PC GAMING specifically. I have no doubt that in a couple years a $400 gaming PC that can play next-gen titles at or above console levels is totally possible and more than likely a fact.
Yannick Lapointe
like a good high end graphic card will always be bested by a mid low end graphic card in 3years, does it mean that i should stop buying videocards for my pc only because it will be desuate in a ccouples years? hell we should also stop buying everthing since there's "risk" of progress that will make your product worst than when you got it?
James Cole
Firstly- optimization. Look at the last of us. Secondly- the last gen dragged on coz it was selling at a loss for so long that it took that long to be profitable. This gen are selling at a profit so it wont be 6 years. More likely 4 to 5. 4 would be the earliest because it can take a few years for some games to come out. And a lot longer for rockstar or id. Lol.
Scott Vater
Optimizations will only go so far though. When we start getting APU's with 20-50% more shader cores than the PS4 or X1, PC's at that point (which isn't too far off…probably a year or so) will have enough raw horsepower that they'll be able to keep up or even surpass the PS4 and X1 in terms of graphical fidelity.
I look at a PC like mine which is a 2500K and AMD HD 7970 based system. Both major components of which are over two years old now and far from high-end, mind you. Yet I'm able to run all my games at nearly, if not more than, twice the performance of the PS4. Which makes sense considering my system is more or less twice as powerful as the PS4 (it's more than twice but we'll round off).
So yeah…APU's will pass consoles soon and cheap gaming PC's will become a reality. It's simply a fact. Hell, as I just said even my two year old PC has ZERO problems running next-gen games beyond PS4 graphics AND performance.
All of this ultimately leads to these optimizations. Considering my system has no to the metal coding or specific optimizations yet consoles are running games half as fast as my PC means that the optimizations this gen I don't think are going to be NEARLY as dramatic as they were last gen. See with the PS3 and 360 both had architecture which had never been seen before…never been coded for or used. There for it took developers a lot of time to really get things down well.
With the new consoles however it's MUCH simpler. Basic run of the mill GPU's using familiar architecture as well as the CPU's being in the same state. Now being a PC geek I can say that, given the hardware which is something that for the first time can truly be compared to PC components in a round about way, what I'VE seen from next-gen games makes COMPLETE sense given the hardware.
Eh, I'm rambling now…either way it goes…APU's will catch up soon and WILL be able to play next-gen games at or above console quality (especially 2-3 years from now they will blow them away) and optimizations won't be AS prominent or noticeable as they were with last-gen. Some developers have already admitted to basically tapping out the next-gen consoles power…which considering their hardware is completely possible. I personally don't see games changing in such a dramatic way as they did from say Uncharted 1 to Uncharted 3 or The Last of Us as they did on the PS3 (same for Halo 3 to Halo 4 or GTA 4 to GTA 5 on other consoles).
Pixel Junkie
$2700?? haha you got ripped off. My self-built $600 PC will destroy either of these consoles, and look better doing it. One that matches a PS4 will cost even less.
Btw, wireless keyboard and mouse $25, oh wait, your console doesn't have these. A $50 harddrive get's you double the capacity of the PS4. Your console has a shiity mid-ranged laptop apu btw which wouldn't be expensive to match – $100 fx6300 on amazon right now. $60 a new release on console vs $40 on PC. Sorry, but consoles are NOT cheaper. After your first 3 game purchases, the PC gamer will already be saving.
Oh Pc also has more titles available, better titles, cheaper games, a wider range of available controllers, in 2 years when processing power has doubled, you're able to upgrade, oh yes,you can also use PC's to write games (the ones you play on your console lol), create 3d models, design posters, do your finances and banking, convert video's, compose and record music, download shit for free, let's not forget upcoming virtual reality (oculus rift/stem system/kor-fx/omni treadmill), oh and did I mention games look and run better?
Oh yeah, and this…
Notice the upward trend on the PC, and the already pedestrian power of your console, follow that graph to it's logical conclusion in 5 years. Idiot.
James Cole
So why are you always in console forums if you only ever hate. Go to pc forums where you can all give each other wristies with love. I wont even start to disect your posts. Like religious people, common sense and logic give way to myth and fairytales.
Benton Ledbetter
Is there an official spec sheet out on this.
When are we going to find out the PS4's cpu speed? also does it have sata 3? or just sata2? Also, its disappointing that it does have 5GHz "N"
It's 1.6GHz, it states so in the development docs.
It can go up to 2.0ghz.
"Despite continuing claims from
some that the SoC must contain a higher-end Kaveri/Steamroller-class
CPU, the tiny x86 cores implemented here are clearly based on
When did ANYONE ever say otherwise? It's been known since early 2013 that both APU's were Jaguar-based. Only idiots would've claimed otherwise.
yeah that threw me for a loop, too – the official specs have listed the cpus as jaguar for months. no one was arguing otherwise.
Joel Hruska
I've been having a comment war with someone who shall remain nameless. ;)
I got nothing out of this useless jargon.
Scott Vater
Sooo…you didn't understand it?
As well as you seem to understand my comment.
Joel Hruska
It's jargon, certainly. But it's far from useless.
ok we could safely assume a 20nm archeticture PS4 by 2017
Where is the part that it actualyl talks about the specs? Speificly the cpu.
Asif Bashir
But still no news on what the actual speed of the CPU is…
These consoles arent beefy at all.. This is not even next gen in computer standards, its under current gen for THIS year. what the heck is wrong with console makers. usually the would take a loos on the chin in profits for longevity, so here we go again with consoles holding back gaming advances on the software level, hate how big company's dictate the gaming trends. Im sick of monopolies
Developing games for PC and console is somewhat different. PC's are not designed for gaming at all. Where as consoles primary purpose is gaming, nothing else. Therefore the architecture is used to better effect, than it can be using a PC. Of course PC's would be more powerful, but with that comes cost and whole host of things. Consoles are designed to be easy to use, fast, last a long time and enable a good amount of growth, whilst being easy for developers to program for. In many cases, it's never a good idea comparing a Console to PC, or visa versa, as they are quite different beasts.
" PC's are not designed for gaming at all'
Phones are not designed for games, mp3s are not designed for games, tvs are not designed for games. PCs are designed to create 3d words and have the best controls. Pc has more exlusives than all consoles combined, more developers work on pc. Yet they are not designed for games?
The architecture of next gen consoles and pc is the same.
The APU design is used by amd on laptops. It actually casues bottlenecks for powerfull systems due to lack of DDR3 therefore no one uses them on desktops.
PCs in all fairness are designed to be all in one. Consoles are and their OS are engineered to focus on just gaming and some multimedia entertainment. PCs do that plus everything else, not to mention the thousands of different combinations of motherboards/gpus/cpus/soundcards available that make optimizing the game and hardware to its full potential a real time consuming challenge. Console hardware does not change for years hence the better optimization. Of course brute raw processing power of PCs always compensate for that since new hardware is available almost every month.
After 2 years optimization is irrelevant, Consoles just have inferior graphics from the pc version no matter what you do to them.
Nope. A console can do at least 2x what a similar spec pc can.
nope, thats a load of trash, 150$ 750 ti beats ps4 and xbo on bf4.
A console is usually better because its optimized more, most games dont use more than 3 cpu cores so far. However now with x86 architecture and mantle that is gonna change, continue get pwned.
Ps you might wana type "the myth of console optimization" on google, in reallity 2 years later consoles are dated and weak.
Dont forget far cry couldnt be done on ps2 or xbox so they made a smaller game from scratch.
Same case with crysis, it couldnt be done so they made crysis 2 and 3 with smaller maps and less interaction.
The graphics you see now on next gen consoles? We had them since 2011.
You're wrong a console does at least 2x what similar spec pc does it was talked about on digital foundry. Crysis 1 was done on ps3 and 360 try that on a pc with 256 megs ram ain't gonna happen.
crysis 1 was remade from scratch on inferior graphics and invisible walls.
Also both consoles have 512mb vram, not ram VRAM, ps3 infact its not even comparable to pc, it has alien architecture with multiple cpu cores intially it wasnt even gonna have a gpu, pleast stop showing how clueless you are.
Type 400 pc beats ps4.
Consoles were diffirent architecture than pc so the pc versions were basically emulated, also they had low level api, now the architecture is the same and pc has low level api, so you are now wrong, but let me show you this
That $400 pc won't be able to play the latest games a year from now like a PS4 can. Its like a 7800gt couldn't play Crysis 3 and yet PS3 and Xbox 360 can.
Right here develoeprs perspective and its primarily a PC developer they made Metro 2033 and Last LIght and Love the PS4.
Digital Foundry: Do you think that the relatively low-power CPUs in the next-gen consoles (compared to PC, at least) will see a more concerted push to getting more out of GPU Compute?
Oles Shishkovstov: No, you just cannot compare consoles to PC directly. Consoles could do at least 2x what a comparable PC can due to the fixed platform and low-level access to hardware.
Back to the question – yes, yes and yes. There are some things which are just more efficient to do on massively parallel machines like GPUs are. I think that at least initially, with launch titles, the GPU-Compute will be underutilised, but during console's lifetime we'll see more and more unbelievable and innovative things purely thanks to GPUs.
ofcourse it will.
I had a 5 year old gpu that run gmaes better than consoles, titanfall requirements are from 2006.
Crysis 3 was a stupid case of using dx11 to optimize for high end cards.
Thats just one game, everythign else runs, not suprising consideiring evne at the lowest settings there are effects that are superior than the console version, thus dx11 features.
Metro last light on consoles runs under the lowest settings, just saying.
Digital foundry was guessing back then, they thought that next gen consoles use all that ram so you should get as much vram as possible but as it turns out about 5gb is reserved for games.
Consoles have low level api, pc didnt, now pc has low level api, so "coding to the metal" is now possible on pc.
So much for the fixed platform if far cry 3 runs at 24 fps. pff just get a a pc instead.
You do reallize that techology along with GDDR5 exists on pc years now? Infact the architecture is nothing new apu does it for their laptops, you cant expect a low power trashbox with a tablet low power cpu to stand a change against a decent pc.
Pixel Junkie
BTW, when a developer somehow manages to get their game to run at 1080 at 60fps on a console (which btw is an achievement since on many games they are unable to do this – remember 1080p/60hz is the standard for PC gamers these days, if not the minimum), it's because they've made sacrifices elsewhere (anti-aliasing quality, texture resolution, particle counts, I'm getting tired of repeating myself), whereas many PC developers have clock cycles to spare on their dev machine. This is why PC gamers often refer to console developers as dumbing down or limiting PC version, to be more in-line with consoles limited capabilities. Remember, PC gamers had 'next-gen' graphics a year before the new consoles were even released. Even now, next-gen PC games on high settings look better than their console equivalents, and in 5 years from now, your games will look like PS3 games, maybe worse, if that were possible. So please, stop talking shit.
James Cole
Sorry, WRONG. Consoles offer an easy, affordable, plug and play entry into gaming for the masses, regardless of skill or tech knowledge. This massively expanded player base provides the massively expanded revenue the studios need to make better games. Consoles are DRIVING pc gaming. And if you mean the "insufficient" performance of consoles holding pc gaming back, then I retort by saying, the 99.9% of pc owners who didn't build dedicated gqming rigs are holding pc gaming back also. If it wasn't for consoles, pc gaming would consist of half a dozen small, indy studios. Hence why their isn't a whole lot of big budget, AAA Ip's that are pc exclusive. And the previous example of crisis being dumbed down for console, although true, is still a moot point. That dumbed down console version brought in the revenue to make it a profitable venture. Simple economics.
James Cole
I challenge you to build a 400 buck pc from scratch (no second hand cases or fans or…) I seriously doubt it would match a ps4. And if it does, I would challenge you to put it aside for 3 years and see if it matches once devs have gotten a handle on things. Not trying to put you in your place, by any means, just having a difference of opinion.
google 400$ pc beats ps4.
I bet a 500$ pc will beat ps4 easilly.
Like i said 149$ 750 ti beats ps4 on bf4.
level acess api on pc will improve perfomance tenfold, ps4 uses only 6
cores and 5gb for games and thanks the same architecture pc hardware
will be utilized.
Most games on pc still use only 3 cpu
cores and 3gb ram now with mantle and low level acess and x86 console
with 8 cores, al that is gonna change and pc hardware will be so
superior they will outperfom consoles by a mile, the fact sony and ms
run to amd to make their consoles for them is all the hint you need.
You're wrong a console does at least 2x what similar spec pc does it was talked about on digital foundry. Crysis 1 was done on ps3 and 360 try that on a pc with 256 megs ram ain't gonna happen.
James Cole
Bf4 and all other games at this early stage of console life aren't optomized. Its still new tech for the devs. Case in point- the last of us. In 2 years the optimization will be better and will continue getting better. As far as your examples of last gen games, that was 7/8 year old tech with 256 mb ram available. I wouldnt even entertain spending the same amount on a pc. If you want to spend 1500 to 2000 grand on a pc then you deserve a beast. After the $1000 dollar ps3 launch, these things have to be made to a price point and its not laptop components, it's customised apu's. Dedicated to one job.
Pixel Junkie
Wow you must have gotten the PS4 magic edition.
Nope its true no pc with 256mb of vram and 256mb of system memory can do what the PS3 has done graphically. The developers of one of the best looking pc games metro last light said that in an interview when asked about if low power jaguar cores would pose a problem for consoles and they said no a console can do at least 2x what a similar spec pc can due to low level access hardware. PS4 has a separate arm chip with 256mb of memory for background tasks making it even more efficient.
Pixel Junkie
Hahaaha did I just read this correctly? Your console games are DESIGNED on PC's, how can PC's not be designed for gaming. Consoles are not fast btw, their load times are horrendous, 30fps in some games (like the new thief) is not fast, and consoles are THE OPPOSITE of growth. For 5+ years you are stuck with the same hardware. Your comment is the absolute antithesis of using simple deductive reasoning.
p.s. I wouldn't use the word 'beast' and 'console' in the same sentence. Here, have a graph…
James Cole
Finally, some common sense. And to the post avove yours, consoles arent holding pc's back. By switching to x86 architecture, porting is easier allowing the devs to spend time on optimization. Besides, that rediculous inference is like saying every pc that isn't running i7 with 64 gb ram is holding pc gaming back. Sure you can get a lot better pc hardware for a price but a whole lot of people dont have high end rigs. And by selling consoles at a cheaper price, a whole lot of people who arent tech savvy have access so EXPONENTIALLY more money is put into the industry. That investment that consoles bring is, in fact, driving the industry forward and propping up pc gaming to a large degree. Not too many big name, big budget pc exclusives out there.
"what the heck is wrong with console makers."
Where to start, from the fact x360/ps3 were powerfull yet they done 30 fps 720p.
Or how that lead to games being more slower paced and "cinematic" since they couldnt do much with 30 fps and small envrioments..
Then was the economy problem. Now consoles for some reason have to do 1080p 60 fps as standard when in reallity it takes so much power to do that.
Ms and sony cant pay bilions each year for Research and development, amd and nvidia can. So long story short, "console makers" have to go to the leaders in graphical technology to make their consoles. So consoles cant be as good as pc hardware or as advanced and the optimization argument is fading thanks to similar architecture.
They dug their own holes when they made their games 90% about graphics and 10% of actual gameplay. Now the graphics standards are too high and they cant deliver a console for a low price that is powerful enough
On top of that graphics cost and the better the graphics, the more people have to buy the game to cover the costs so you got samey games to ensure sales.
As bioware said the cost for a true next gen experiance is so high that they gonna have to sell 10 milion copies in order to make profit, so no one is willing to do it.
We have to say FUUU you to the graphics and stick to gameplay.
Yet next gen seems to be more about social features than games.
James Cole
Firstly. Sony have as much if not more money for r and d. Amd didnt build the consoles, they provided inexpensive hardware that was heavily modified (optomized, if you will) for a single, dedicated service. Add in custom, dedicated (again, optomized) api's and you have allowed devs to get a whole lot more from those amd component's. Secondly, similarity to pc's mainly helps with coding and porting, doesn't lessen software optimization. Pc's are harder because there is thousands of different hardware configs to get working. When referring to console optimization, they are talking about all consoles being equal so all resources can be utilized (eventually). Which is why the use custom api's, built specifically for the hardware. Lastly, it's still way to early to pass judgment on capabilities. It's still new tech that the devs are learning ( a luxury that the generic nature of pc's (( in terms of hardware combinations)) doesn't afford) and they are still aiming at cross gen instead of pushing the boundaries.
sorry no, sony and ms are do not have the money required for R&D nvida, intel and amd do.
Thats why they went to amd.
No amd didnt build the consoles cheap chinesse factories put them together but consoles are APUs from amd not a new architecture.
Amd makes more money per ps4 than sony and sony finacials are horrible.
amd has confirmed that next gen consoles cannot compare with their pc hardware their pc hardware are far harder to make thus more powerfull and expensive.
Amd is making a new api for pc as well as other low level apis are being made right now and directx 12 and next opengl will offer more low level acess.
If this is true then consoles are done for
Its happening already wihtout low level acess api, consoles are weak and the 149$ 750 ti outperfoms ps4 on bf4.
Surprise surprise. $0N¥ lied AGAIN and it is dual quad core like the Xbox One.
They said it had 8 cores, which is true. Neither lied.
They said it was true 8 core and not split. They LIED AGAIN!
Joel Hruska
#1. There's no difference between a "true" eight core and an MCM.
#2. No one ever thought it was going to be true eight-core. Certainly I didn't. AMD didn't *do* an eight-core Kabini, and that's what this is.
Jack Slater
Forza5 10/10 explained.
Dont pretend you can see the diffirence. You cant do it on shadowflop, why you think you can do it here you pretentious twat.
Don't pretend you can't see the difference, Shadows have major downgrade, buildings are a lot more flat, textures everywhere have dropped noticeably on cobble roads, trees, buildings & spectators if you actually look at them. Reflection on cars have also dropped.
Very noticeable when comparing not so much when playing the game, but if you take note its a rather large downgrade all round.
Go ahead analyze this.
Uh it is a completely different game, and Forza 5 had a lot bigger downgrade them those settings.. But if you MUST.. Very high & high have some better lighting and more fog, Low/medium does a ever so slightly poorer job at light reflections onto other surfaces.
Overall between those settings it doesn't really effect much, but on Forza you actually got major downgrades in shadows in the likes which are very noticeable
YET the console versions runs UNDER the lowest settings and pretty much every game on pc destroysthe console version.
YET people cant see that and argue that the diffirence is non existant but HEYYY when you compare a xbox one game, then everyone is capable of seeing the diffirence, riddiculus!!
So? We're talking bout a exclusive, thats only on the Xbox One, designed for it. It got downgraded since we saw it at E3 to run at 1080p 60fps on the Xbox One.
To compare Forza correctly, we'll look at Driveclub, since it was announced back in Feb before Forza was shown off, its only been getting better, in better looking. Forza got worse.
In I believe DC looked better to begin with, now its completely out doing Forza.
Not sure where the PC games come in…
My argument is that ifind it funny that console fanboys say they cant see the minimal diffirences between pc and console version but they can when comparing console games.
smeels biased.
Maybe cause the console versions only really have 1 setting, you don't have low and high. If you actaully compared Forza you notice that a lot of the buildings are more flat, shadows from trees have gone, and more. In PC's games you wouldn't get that from changing the settings, just like your picture showed – other stuff would of been more noticeable if they all where nav resolution
Oh please i saw people trying to tell the diffirence between gta v on ps3 and x360 when they were identical.
i cant tell the diffirence in that forza pictures, its not that i can tell which is which, it is that i cant tell which one looks better, if they were fullscreen i woudl be able to see the details but jack slater is a fucking sony fanboy that posted high resollution shadowfall screenshot from multiplayer filled with jaggies and severelly lacking ambient occlusion and claiming it beats crysis 3 on ultra AS IF HE HAS PLAYED IT and now he claims he can see the diffirences in those small pics when in reallity he just trusts what the gif says and trully has NO IDEA about graphics and just hates on ms and praises sony.
A no, games is running on PC at E3
Its for that you can see so much difference.
Jack Slater
Go phuck yourself, piece of dog shit.
Stop commenting my comments with insults and whatsoever, because soon, I will be saying and calling nasty things about your mom, on every single comment you post. I will create several accounts and down rate you 300 times every time you open your dirty PC elites mouth.
You hate consoles, you hate Sony, you hate console games, you hate console gamers. Why don't you go to gaming bolt and dual shock pc master race home, and comment there? Why you feel obligated to invade every single console article, to bash console gamers and games? If you can't see the huge details missing on this picture, not only your are a total idiot and stupid, but you have serious eye problems. To much crysis gaming, I guess.
If you're not that blind, you will see half of the people, trees, textures, buildings, ambient occlusion, light, details, shadows, self shadows, are missing on the final version. Only a delusional dumb phokin s-hole will deny it.
Now leave console gamers and games for good, leave us with our ugly killzone shadow fall and ryse/ forza5 graphics and awful framerate, leave us with our shitty consoles with low-power laptop CPU, let us play our simple the last of us/halo 4 low resolutions at low-quality PC settings, and do us a favor, rent a boat, tie some sand bags to your body, and dive with your crysis pirated games.
Internet is a cool place with cool people. I am forced to talk and insult you, unfortunately, against my will, because I'm never like this, not even close, but shit, too much is too much. Is it too hard for you to understand that console gamers actually made the choice to play console games, and they have fun with with they have, instead of playing a game and thinking 'ohh,no wish I could play this game at 300 fps, 8k at mega-giga-ultra quality'.
People have fun and pleasure with what they have, that's why one don't replace our husband/wife every 3 days, because there is better. There is always better.
Next 29, there will be another 2-3-4 million gamers, including myself, playing a resogun, knack, killzone and many other games. And I'm sure killzone isn't a 3/10 game, those scores come from Sony haters, pure xbots, that feel good giving perfects scores to xbox one console and games, and bashing the hell out of Sony and ps4." So, the ps4 plays at 1080p and the xbox one, at 720p? No problem, we will give the shittiest reviews and scores as possible to the ps4 games".
On metacritic, naturally, the most down rated games are the Sony exclusives. Pure coincidence, of course.
That way, all the xbots and reviewers, like adam sessler, polygon, etc, etc etc, will pass a message: 'you see, the exclusive ps4 games are shit, xbox one games are amazing. Buy an xbox one, games are better'. That's the message these assholes want to say. Killzone got killed by xbots, most reasons are ' oohhh, the game plays like killzone 3, bla bla'. Great. Now, what about the remaining 99.5% of positive things, amazing graphics, sounds, long campaign( cod ghosts and bf4 campaigns last 3-4 hours. That alone deserves 2-3 points less on the final score.but no, 10/10 scores fall from the sky).
The xbot adam sessler, a true shame on the video game world, biased as phok, gave a 5/5 to forza 5.
Did he talk about 60% of the game being hidden behind a micro transactions fest, after the gamer spent 60 bucks on the full game? That alone deserves 2-3 points less out of 10. The game is running on 2013 hardware, and is maybe 10-15% better graphically than gran turismo 6, running on 13 years old directx/old libraries and hardware from 2003. Excepting the higher polygon count on forza5, which is totally normal, gt6 is 10 times better than forza5.
Forza horizon managed to sell 700k units on the north america, where 30 million xbox360 gamers are. Forza5 will do the same, once people realize the absolute shameful ripoff with microtransactions, and start trading and selling the game on eBay, GameStop, etc. Once again, the biased sessler gives it a 5/5. Just because he is followed by millions xbox gamers, naturally, he had to give it a 5/5. Hope you read this, adam. Shame.shame.shame on you. With may 21 microsoft reveal, millions gamers also discovered the true biased pro-microsoft xbots tool you are. Several times you came in and defended microsoft, even when they had announced their intentions to destroy the video games industry. Now, that people know who you are, each article or comment in the gaming world, people talk about you with disrespect, and nobody believes you anymore. Forza5 5/5 was just the continuation of your 100% pro-microsoft behaviour , when everybody was angry about microsoft policies announcements.
So, darkan45, your hate towards us, console gamers, and the bad reviews polygon and co. just gave to the ps4 and ps4 games, nothing will stop us from buying our ps4, our games, and have lots of fun. Knack got slashed, because reviewers wanted to rush and finish the game in 40 minutes, and they kept dying and dying, thus, hating the game. The game needs to be played on a 90's old-school platform-action games mood, instead of being approached like it was a call of duty game. But, hey, that's a sony exclusive game, let's kill it, with a 3/10. Meanwhile, games with xbox360 graphics, running at 720p and 14-24 constant fps, like dead rising 3 on the xbox one, still got 8's and 9's. Hey, it's an xbox one exclusive game, we need to give it a high score. The same haters that gave knack and killzone a 3-4/10. Shame, US biased press. Shame.
Butthurt because the ps4 is assassinating the xbox one in the xbox360 home, right? All your bad reviews won't stop smart gamers, adults, cool people that belong to the happy Sony community from getting a ps4. Try harder.
Too much said. Now, go place your crysis3 game, and when you finish it, go to n4g, and as soon as there is an article praising consoles, go there, call people morons, idiots, stupids, assholes, dumbasses, twats, etc etc, just because they don't play games on a PC. OK, clever boy? Hope you understand the message, don't wanna spend my internet time educating you, because you aren't even able to respect someone because he plays on a console rather than PC, at 800 fps 8k at ultra-super-ultra settings. Stop 5 minutes and analyse your behaviour. Learn how to live with different gamers and different tastes than yours, it will be useful for the rest of your life.
Judging by the thumbs down id say its pretty clear to everyone that you are a gigantic idiot.
So lets recap, you act like a child, you threat me with fake acounts and stalking me and downvoting me.
You think that everyon who doesnt agree with you sonyfags are xbox drones, you think it matters to me or anyone wherever ps4 sells on USA or not.
You misspeled my name.
You go around trollingthe xbox one.
You think everyone who doesnt like your shitty games and sony is a xbot or just a hater.
You think that i somehow like crysis 3 when the point i was making is that crysis 3 has better graphics and if you dont see it you simply dont understand graphics. In the end however as it turned out shadowfall is more worthy of "all graphics" no gameplay" king than crysis 3 and it was a huge flopped as well as knack so many you sony cunts should hype games less. Also sony exlusives have low sales.
Apparently it was so fuckign important for you sony fags that killzone shadowfall has the best graphics ever AS IF crysis 3 will not be beaten in this NEXT GEN at some point, that you forgot about the fact that the game might suck.
You keep making imaginery specs of utter nonsense, yet mike cerny's game KNACK on the HIS OWN FUCKIGN CONSOLE…struggles to maintain 40 fps.
So the poiint i am making is simple, NEXT GEN IS WEAK, REALLIZE IT AND DEAL WITH IT, after you do that the developers who took the gameplay out of games to focus on graphics, will reallize it too and will focus on GAMEPLAY not graphics and thats what next gen should be about not about share and tv social functions.
All that started because you are constantl in denial and a huge sonyfanboy, the fact you pick up reviews and call them baised for not liking your PRECIOUS sony exlusives, which you wouldnt give a flying fuck if they were not exlusives….just proves what a massive fanboy you are a massive fanboy that sucks sony too much.
HERE IS AN IDEA, be less of a sony fanboy and enjoy the games.
http://www.blackxino.blogspot.com/ Xino
so what does it all say or mean in English?
Where is the Xbox One SoC X-ray and Photo? They had PS4 done launch day. IS MS not letting them?
Ken Luskin
HSA innovations on the PS4 APU from AMD will allow developers to get significantly better efficiency over time.
Mantle will also increase the efficiency, which is why so many developers are embracing it.
If ALL you want is a PC in the living room, then do it yourself, and spend over a $1,000.
MSFT/Sony wanted to keep the cost under $500.
An expensive and noisy discrete graphic card would have greatly increased the cost of the new consoles.
Adam From Benoni
Mantle is not supported on the Xbox one or Ps4!! So a usless feature thats DOA..
Mantle is more for console to PC It does not help Consoles in anyway.
Adam From Benoni
Mantle is not supported on the Xbox one or Ps4!! So a usless feature thats DOA..
Mantle is more for console to PC It does not help Consoles in anyway.
Pixel Junkie
Similarly spec'ed PC's don't cost $1000, my god where do you console fanboys keep getting these ridiculous figures
You're right it would cost much more to build a similar spec pc not many pc gamers have 8gb of gddr5 sorry and oh vram doesn't stack up so no pc gamers have 8gb of gddr5 until 8gb video cards come out.
idiot much only 5gb is available for games and thas for cpu and gpu.
Yep and on pc you eat even more than that so next. Plus sony will issue an update to free up memory just like they did on PS3.
no and no.
pc games are x32 at this point which means they cant use more than 3gb. There is no point to having 3-5 gb for vram. For 1080p you need 2gb, the rest is for 1440p. Also most games use 3 cores so far.
With x64 exes and low level api things will improve ten fold and ofcourse consoles having the same architecture.
The 149$ 750 ti already runs bf4 better than consoles.
As for updating the console? They are not gonna get anything significant especially with ps now and browing and record functions not to mention rumored VR.
Pixel Junkie
what on earth are you talking about? 8gb video cards? you smoking crack son?
A simple $100 FX6300 paired with a GTX660 and 8gb of ram will already be faster than your 'next-gen' consoles. And most serious PC gamers would consider that a very 'average' PC build. Imagine what they think about your console hardware
No it won't a console can do at least two times what a similar spec pc can.
Pixel Junkie
Keep drinking the Sony Kool-Aid buddy. I can tell you as a matter of fact that that setup renders games at 1080p @ 60fps, that the PS4 struggles with @ 30fps. Not to mention the PC version is using more advanced rendering techniques like ambient occlusion and SSAO, while the PS version is using cheap-ass FXAA
you can do it on pc with 500$ as well
Adam From Benoni
Both Console's will be absolete compared to PC within 2 years..
But if I would have to choose 1 I would take the Xbox
I have many Microsoft products and they almost never have any bad points.
Try smashing a Xbox remote not happening try a ps3 remote it breaks easy.
The truth of the GPU ( Graphics ) PS4 and Xbox One
This time two tangible differences between what console offer the developer world. GPU Xbox One operates faster, 853Mhz thanks to the latest increase in power that Microsoft gave to their development kits versus 800Mhz PS4 , but the GPU console Sony has more units of calculation behind ( CU 's) : 18 instead of 12 Xbox One.
Sony has reported that the PS4 GPU CU contains 20 instead of 18 . This will be explained below in detail.
So the picture is this: the Microsoft GPU operating at a faster rate but Sony is able to do more work at once. In other words , the two consoles support exactly the same effects and APIs and an image rendered in 3D should look exactly the same in the other.
The only difference is that PS4 can render it faster.
From a quick and direct way : PS4 games in extreme circumstances where a developer need that extra power , may have higher resolution textures that provide more detail to the set and go to higher screen resolutions.
It is the difference that the largest number of computing units in PS4 despite working at a slightly slower rate than the Xbox One
Anyway, the approach they are following the two companies are very similar. Is to eliminate unnecessary layers between the game code and hardware regardless of the API's of classic PC and use optimized versions .
Both consoles are based on DirectX 11 but both Sony and Microsoft have developed their own versions that should help developers get better performance.
The difference today is that the PS4 uses Directx 11.2 and Xbox One Directx 11.1
This is also better today for the PS4.
So , knowing this , we know that being a closed and fully unified system (CPU , GPU and video memory and system GDDR5 PS4 ) You can reach the conclusion that the PS4 has a lot more potential as Xbox One into graphics. Not just for upcoming games will stop using the Windows API and start using own APIs from Sony which is going to increase the potential for console end because in the PC one of the major problems and constraints is the Windows and its API. But also has more potential for hardware than Xbox One and uses system and video memory at a GDDR5 speed . Something that does not exist in PC. This unified system.
To conclude , this also informs people comparing the PS4 with a PC. Since knowing this , it is clear that the PS4 does not compare to a PC or a PC GPU . The reasons were explained above but here they are much better explained:
1) Unique system created to play games, UNIFIED system and video memory at a GDDR5 speed .
2) Will stop using the Windows API. And they will use their OWN optimized API .
3) It uses another lot more lightweight and powerful operating system in terms of game programming . FreeBSD on PS4 .
4) Hardware has more potential than a Xbox One, literally 18 vs 12 CU CU . We also know that Sony has reported that the PS4 GPU stream processors are actually 20 and that will be unlocked with firmware just without a date. 20 Stream Processors which has actually announced that although it may be more . This will give the PS4 15 % more graphical horsepower compared to how is today . And if we compare with PC graphics card, would happen to be a HD 7850 to a HD 7870 . Although a comparision to a PC GPU is completely wrong .
5 ) Knowing all this , it is impossible to compare a PS4 with a PC, simply by something called optimization . That would be almost literally 500% more effective than on a PC using Windows and Microsoft API . And do not forget that the PS4 is CLOSED system and not as an OPEN system that is a PC with millions of variants you have, something that developers cant program thinking about those millions of variants , also with the problem of system DRIVERS and the Windows API , and more endless problems affecting the performance of a PC. All this DOES NOT happen in a PS4 .
In conclusion if we want to make the mistake of comparing the PS4 with a PC as a graphics card , would happen to be a HD 7870 500% more powerful . And if we make that comparison , there would be no PC GPU in the market to compare in terms of optimization of PS4 . Something that has no logic and thats why it is a big mistake comparing with a PC.
Sony knows this in advance , so they used this hardware to assemble the PS4 . The console needs to be in the market for years . And it is wrong that people think it's a HD 7870 /50, counting only the GPU and not everything else that also differs to a PC. Also knowing that hardware goes hand with software , operating system and APIs. Something that completely differs in a PS4.
In a few years the PS4 will provide excellent graphics and will run extemely well . When a PC whatever it is , and a HD 7850 or 7870 will be IMPOSSIBLE to run the game in question like the PS4 does it.
Today the PS4 uses DirectX in its launch titles , and still run and look great. Except one game : Battlefield 4 . Which many people says that runs poorly in PS4 and 900p instead of 1080p native , pretending is because the PS4 hardware potential. This is because DICE did not know how to program in the PS4 and had to use the DirectX 11.1 API (the xbox one) limiting the potential of the PS4 and not using all its hardware horsepower. This also managed to get the game totally bugged at launch and run pretty bad. Which were solved with patches. But the game itself is already coded in a different version from the API that the PS4 has by default . And as explained, Sony is going to stop using the directx api and use their own API a lot more optimized so that the next Battlefield will show abysmal change in performance and graphics .
And they are all launch titles , something that can not be taken into discussion to see the graphic potential of a console since explained that developers still do not know how to program in the PS4 pretty well and they do not use their potential graphic hardware. They are also programmed on Directx 11.2 where it will be modified. Everything be seen in the future and all that is explained here will be confirmed .
Now I hope those who have doubts about the new generation consoles have some change in their minds
Couldn't agree with you more……
aside from 150$ gpu beating ps4 on bf4.
Please ps4 has a weak tablet cpu and no matter what they do the tech is behind pcs already and will fall further back especially now that pc has mantle.
Jaguar is equal to an I3 which isn't weak. 8 cores optimized is good gpu is more important anyways and 7870 for 1080p or there abouts is sufficient enough.
Pixel Junkie
Jaguar is most definitely not equal to an i3, even at factory clock speeds. The consoles apu (tablet/laptop, that is), is clocked at 1.6ghz, it's a real plonker
A 4 core jaguar alone is 25% of an I5 so all 8 are 50% and i5 is double an i3 on paper so with optimization developers would have 8 slower cores over two or 4 faster ones. Fact.
again you are clueless you do reallize that no matter what amd says, 16 cores, 5ghz speeds, still they will be inferior than intel.
A powerfull intel quadcore still beats a amd cpu with more cores and speed.
So in theory jaguar cant touch intel.
https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!msg/alt.games.video.sony-playstation2/iVcRIKgR-r8/qY6nbtmD_2IJoesn't matter the xbox 360 cpu was 1/3 of a Pentium iv cpu.
and? We are talking about ps4 here that has a cpu that is actualy weaker than ps3 cpu.
One core from jaguar is more powerful then the entire cell processor.
"The PS3 uses the Cell microprocessor, which is made up of one 3.2 GHz PowerPC-based"
Ps3 core 3.2ghz
ps4 core 1.6ghz.
Shows how little you know. Clock speed doesn't mean anything. A Core 2 Duo 2Ghz is faster than a Pentium D 3.4Ghz.
Because its a DUALCORE…
you got pwned before on witcher 3 you get pwned again, just get used to it.
Pentium D is a dual core too. Again you don't know anything.
Thats because they are threaded and not actual cores.
thats why intel actual cores>amd threaded cpu cores.
Again you know nothing.
Clock speed doesn't mean anything you can take a single core Pentium 4 @ 3.2 and a AMD 3800+ 2.4Ghz and the AMD wins. Take a Q9450 cpu at 3.2Ghz and an i5 at 2.5Ghz and i5 wins. Clock speed means nothing nowadays and the Jaguar is much more powerful then the cell processor found in the PS3.
Now you are running in circles.
How on earth can a 3.2ghz not be more powerfull than a 1.6ghz cpu?
Come on get real.
Thats TWICE the power godamn it. Its like two of those cpus.
James Cole
But cant multithread. Bottlenecks. And 8 cores all at 1.6 running lower latency and higher bandwidth. I hope you got help building your gaming rig.
dont be a troll i build pcs for living.
I wasnt aware that i can build pcs with cell architecture.
Also no it doesnt have 8 cores it is a THREADED 8 core which means it is a quad core and its a jaguar based TABLET cpu which means it cant output alot of power and it is pretty much a joke for pcs, infact it would bottleneck most cpus.
Also only 6 cores are available to games, pwned.
Just Me
wow, you're clueless.
and that comes from a clueless xbot who thinks xbox is more powerful than ps4 and ryse is a graphicaly impressive game.
Kill yourself.
Just Me
No. I will not. Why don't YOU kill yourself?
because i am going to kill YOU.
Just Me
Ok, I'll leave you alone. I don't want to be killed.
Aaaaaaa no, Sorry, PS3 can draw more PNJ on the screen.
If the PS4 will not have the 7870…
James Cole
Again, not weaker. Slower clock speed but less reliance on the chip due to way games are coded now. Again, lower latency and higher bandwidth make it a more capable unit by far. Also has 8 cores instead of one core means different processes can be assigned to different cores instead of queuing. I would rather the slowest i7 than a faster i3. Clock speed aint sh! t.
i was under the impression ps3 had 8 cores.
Also yeah clock speed is very important what you base buying cpus and gpus on?
James Cole
The ps3 has one core and 7 usable spu's which aren't really suitable for multiple process switching. More suitable for streaming longer algorithms. Not sure if thats the correct terminology, but I hope it kind of makes sense. It's cell, not x86 so it works in a different way and if I tried to explain it, my total lack of understanding would be apparant. I gkt no idea. Only a single cpu core is clocked at 3.6?
"It's cell, not x86 so it works in a different way and if I tried to explain"
We all know that. So how about not making such comparisons and go with the one thing we know, ps3 was not gonna feature a gpu intially so i guess its safe to say that ps3 cpu was and still is a beast, yet a messy crappy architecture. So yeah x86 is better but i am pointing out that sony is damage controllign with lies they comapre it with ps2 because if they compared it with ps3 they wouldnt get this
Any SPU can be programmed as you want, you want that SPU will work like GPU so programme it as GPU, want a CPU or a Video/Audio stream CPU, then coding it as !
Is for that that the CELL can run Graphic Application without GPU.
James Cole
The apu is not a tablet apu. The jaguar is a group of devices. Same as my laptop i7 isnt the same as a desktop i7. The soc design, whilst born in mobile tech, is not mobile tech. My ps4 plugs into a power outlet, but that doesn't make it a toaster. The benefits of the soc design are lower latency, higher bandwith (combined withe the gpu providing the grunt for game processing) and the apu is powerful enough (bandwidth and latency are far more important than clock speed). Other soc benefit s are lower production costs, ability for better modification and lower power draw. In 5 years, pc's will be running soc's commonly. Socs allow information to travel directly to where needed as opposed to relying on the motherboard to sort, direct and prioritize the same information.
Pixel Junkie
APU's in general were developed for power, cost and space-saving. Every benchmark in the world will show you that in order to achieve these goals, raw-performance is lost. If you're arguing that Jaguar is more powerful than intel's current iteration of i3's, you are wrong.
Pixel Junkie
You are wrong. When hardware like GTX Titan's exist, you think people who want high performance computing are going to be using integrated cpu/gpu's meant to operate for cheaper, take up less space, and cost less to produce, while keeping heat down, at the expense of performance? PC's will not be running soc's commonly, mid/lowrange PC, laptops and tablets, sure, but unless they overtake discrete hardware in terms of performance, which they won't (you know physics and stuff), they will never completely eclipse the real deal.
A no, in power the "Next-Gen" SoC is more a Intel Atom(CPU Tablet)
Tomas Tunkay
PS4 emulator project, look: https://sourceforge.net/projects/playstation4emulatorx8664pc/
Probably a fake.
LOL at all the complaints… ps4 will last as long as they intend it too.. atleast 4-5 years.. you want to play on a pc .. full of cheaters online be my guest some people don't care about exactly whats inside as long as it runs every game perfectly as intended.. stop your whining you babies
Joe Cimmarrusti
I know I am late at this, but having more horsepower than a pc is not the importance. The fact that the hardware is equal on all consoles gives developers the chance to optimize without worrying about compatibility issues often plaguing pc's.
Would like to know what's inside the secondary SOC and what's it doing with that extra 256MB of DDR3
What the gaming community has come to. It has now become important to pretend to care about the specs that a game can run in order to play it. I guarantee you, that the majority of a top 5 games list from a true gamers list have graphics that aren't that good, Thats what gaming is all about, TO HAVE FUN! It also has become a pissing war on machine hardware that will make your games prettier and "cute-looking"
You want good graphics?
Abhishek Sabarinath
Way to go PS4!!!!!!!!
PS4 – $400, FPS at Metro Last Light{1080p}- Solid 60fps
Asus ROG G751 -$ 2400, FPS at Metro Last Light- 45.6 fps
Laptop -__-
And the game you told is a remastered, any PS4 remaster is 1080p/60FPS, but all new games…
Thank you come again.


text:
(13 summaries)
Keith J. Andreys
Oregon Supreme Court
|Filling Date
|Rasmussen v. Kroger
|Ballot Titles: Ballot initiatives that substantively change existing law must directly address in the ballot title the substantive change the initiative proposes to address. Additionally, the measure must address the substantive effect of a "yes" or "no" vote.
|Farmers Ins. Co. v. Mowry
|Insurance Law: The court affirmed Collins v. Farmers Ins. Co. as stare decisis that that exclusion clauses within a motor vehicle insurance policy that eliminated coverage of one insured against another insured of the same policy are unenforceable to the extent that they failed to provide the minimum coverage required by law.
Oregon Court of Appeals
|Filling Date
|OR-OSHA v. CC & L ROOFING CO., INC.
|Evidence: Under ORS 654.086, OR-OSHA has the burden of persuasion to show constructive knowledge. Employer evidence to show "reasonable diligence" in compliance is not an affirmative defense "because it negates the knowledge element of a serious violation."
|Strutz v. Employment Department
|Employment Law: Pursuant to ORS 183.482(8)(c) the Court of Appeals reviews Employment Appeals Board decisions "to determine whether its factual findings are supported by substantial evidence," and whether the Board's conclusions "are supported by substantial reason."
|Bailey v. Nooth
|Post-Conviction Relief: Pursuant to ORS 138.590, a petitioner has a right to appointed counsel in post-conviction relief case. A trial court can deny a motion for substitution of counsel and order a petitioner to proceed pro se, only if necessary to achieve a fair, orderly, and efficient resolution of petitioner's post-conviction case.
|Medean v. Moeller
|Insurance Law: The 14-day time limit imposed by ORCP 68 C(4), and incorporated into ORS 31.555(3)(b), "is the exclusive means by which the insurer may offset its PIP reimbursement payment against the money award."
|State v. Hatfield
|Criminal Law: Consent to search is not an incriminating response. A request for consent to search is not interrogation under the Oregon or federal Constitutions, even after a defendant's unequivocal request for counsel.
|State v. Jones
|Criminal Law: OEC 404(4) bars a trial court from excluding evidence under OEC 403,"unless constitutionally required."
|Department of Human Services v. N.M.S
|Family Law: When a substantial right of a parent is affected by a change in facts, such as those extrinsic to the court's jurisdiction, the parent must be given constitutionally adequate notice as to what, exactly, he or she must do to prevent or terminate jurisdiction of the state.
|Russell v. U.S. Bank National Association
|Employment Law: Under ORS 652.150, the statue of limitations for penalty wages does not begin to run until the employer pays the employee's final wages, files an action, or after 30 days from date final wages are due.
|State v. Dunning
|Criminal Law: A police officer should be prohibited from testifying as an expert regarding technical or scientific matters if he has no expertise or formal training on the subject.
|Stewart v. Kids Incorporated of Dallas, OR
|Civil Procedure: To survive a motion to dismiss, a negligence claim must allege facts from which a factfinder could determine: 1) defendant caused a foreseeable risk of harm, 2) of the type the law protects, 3) defendant's conduct was unreasonable in light of the risk and the cause of plaintiff's harm, and 5) plaintiff was of the class of persons sought to be protected.
|Certain Underwriters v. Mass. Bonding and Ins. Co.
|Attorney Fees: Under ORS 742.061 an insurer may receive contribution for contribution attorney fees if the insured prevails at trial and obtains a recovery that exceeds the insurer's highest tender.

subset: commoncrawl


text:
- The Finer Things in Life - http://amysfinerthings.com -
Posted By Amy On November 7, 2012 @ 9:29 am In Gratitude,True Riches | 12 Comments
Today I'm choosing to be grateful.
… for the unconditional love of my husband, who works tirelessly, and often without thanks, to provide for our family. He who sacrifices modern day "necessities" like cable tv [3] and a cell phone, so that I can be home.
… for the daily inspiration from my children, all five of the silly miracles [4]. Healthy, beautiful, and ornery. Perfect distractions to the worries of the world. (and great "job security")
… for the opportunity to vote with my dollars; to purchase healthful food from local families [5] and quality companies [6].
… for the privilege (and the surprise!) of turning both hobby and passion into a part-time income from home, easing the burden of teacher-salary living.
… for the ability to make a difference in a child's life. [7] To look past our own wants and needs and know that we are beyond blessed, that someone, somewhere wants what I have. [8]
… for the example of those who do it right. Loving through 65+ years [9]. Gritting through tough economic times [10]. Powering through lean years [11] to sunshine on the other side.
… for the friendship of dear ones who don't always think like me, believe like me, or vote like me. ;) Friends who stretch me, and pray with me. Who know me and love me anyway.
… for the knowledge that government can't fix the important things. Not gonna happen. That's up to you and me. Will we do it?
… for the certain hope that always and everywhere, in every situation, God's got this! [12]
image source [13]
Article printed from The Finer Things in Life: http://amysfinerthings.com
URL to article: http://amysfinerthings.com/grateful
URLs in this post:
[1] via RSS: http://feeds.feedburner.com/TheFinerThingsInLife
[2] via email: http://feedburner.google.com/fb/a/mailverify?uri=TheFinerThingsInLife
[3] cable tv: http://amysfinerthings.com/a-coach-without-cable
[4] silly miracles: http://amysfinerthings.com/infertility-struggles
[5] local families: http://amysfinerthings.com/csa-and-summer-finer-things-friday
[6] quality companies: http://www.azurestandard.com/
[7] make a difference in a child's life.: http://amysfinerthings.com/imon
[8] someone, somewhere wants what I have. : http://amysfinerthings.com/somebody-wants-what-you-have
[9] 65+ years: http://amysfinerthings.com/to-my-grandparents-on-their-65th-wedding-anniversary
[10] tough economic times: http://theprudenthomemaker.com/
[11] Powering through lean years: http://moneysavingmom.com/2008/06/less-is-more.html
[12] God's got this!: http://amysfinerthings.com/gods-got-it
[13] image source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cristian_rh7/7081352589/
Click here to print.
Copyright © 2011 The Finer Things in Life. All rights reserved.


text:
Winter Garden Music Fest 2015
The Winter Garden Music Fest is like no other. It is a FREE three day outdoor music celebration held October 9-11 on Plant Street in Historic Downtown Winter Garden.
Music Fest Hours
Friday: 6:00 pm - 11:00 pm
Saturday: 1:00 pm - 11:00 pm
Sunday: 1:00 pm - 5:00 pm
In its 10th year, the Winter Garden MusicFest is produced by the Winter Garden Heritage Foundation, a nonprofit 501(c)(3) charitable organization. Located in the heart of the charming historic Winter Garden, the event attracts more than 20,000 attendees annually. This free, fun, family event features dozens of live performers!
MusicFest is the only Music Festival that showcases a diverse collection of Central Florida's finest musicians and expose the community their music styles. MusicFest boasts more than 20 different music genres that include: Country, Jazz, Blues, Americana, Classic Rock, Southern Rock, Blue Grass, Alternative, Pop, Folk, Classical, Opera, Musical Theater, Choral, R&B, Zydeco, Native American, Japanese, African, and Celtic.
Known for its quaint shops and great restaurants, historic downtown Winter Garden is the backdrop for the event. Thirty-one thousand year-round residents, bus loads of day visitors and seasonal guests fill the lovely downtown shops, streets and alleyways of this unique village in Central Florida, only 15 miles west of downtown Orlando.
'The Voice!' FINALIST SISAUNDRA LEWIS
Central Florida Native Brought
Her Powerhouse Voice to Winter Garden


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GILLETTE — An Oregon man was arrested for allegedly helping make methamphetamine at one of the largest meth labs found in the county.
David McCune, 44, of Hermiston, Ore., was arrested Tuesday in Broadus, Mont., on a warrant for three felony charges related to operating a meth lab, according to the Campbell County Sheriff's Office.
The state Division of Criminal Investigation said it has tied McCune to a meth lab found at a Gillette home this year. At least six others were also arrested for their alleged involvement in the lab, which produced up to 2 ounces of meth per week after going into operation last fall.
All six have pleaded guilty to drug-related charges and have either been sentenced or await sentencing.
According to court documents, McCune is accused of obtaining a commonly used fertilizer in Oregon for use at the lab and stored a 50-gallon tank of the fertilizer at another home in Gillette.
The tank was found by DCI agents after the lab was busted on Easter Sunday, court documents stated.