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60K timing belt replacement required in warranty handbook but 80K in owner's manual. what's up with that?
bought the car used, low 50's mileage from dealership, original owner's warranty died with them and didn't pass on to me. dealer wants $440 to swap out the timing belt, citing the 60K requirement under warranty. I'm thinking I'll do it myself but not until 80K unless somebody here can cite a recall that was issued by manufacturer that prompted the 60K replacement as part of warranty or is the 60K insurance for manufacturer's bottom line: swap out the belt under warranty (and make the customer pay for it) just in case so they don't have to swap out the whole engine if the belt snaps. Is that too cynical a viewpoint?
21 Answers
Think about this way swap out the belt under 80K, lets say at 60K just in case so they don't have to swap out the whole engine if the belt snaps. I don't know about the warranty thing, but if you engine is not a interference type (i.e. belts breaks you simply replace it after a tow) wait until 80K. If it is an interference type (i.e. belt breaks replace the engine) change it at 60K for good measure. Keep in mind the belt is normally in serviceable shape at the time of replacement, Its a pulley or water pump that begins to fail that in turn trashes the belt. So these items should also be replaced for good measure.
I don't need any hand holding, Jeff. I'm looking 4 evidence like a factory glitch or some other evidence that the belt won't make it to 80K. Some folks are way beyond that mileage, so they claim. You sound like somebody who does car repairs for a living. Yeah, get those chumps coming in early for all the belts to be changed. I think the 60K is a dealership con since they are hauling a 10 year or 100,000 mile warranty. Yeah, who is to say that the customer (without the mandatory 60K replacement) won't even change it at 80K. Yeah, 60K sounds like dealer insurance.
1st off I was just trying to offer some advice, and 2nd I have never worked in the automotive repair business. If your comfortable running the belt up to 80K buy all means do so. You are right the belt may last well past 80k, but are you willing to risk thousands in repairs if it breaks. Also you do have an interference engine, so your top end will be trashed if the belt breaks. Also according to Gates (large manufacture of automotive belts) they call for inspection at 60k, and replacement at 80K. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CCoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gates.com%2Fcommon%2Fdownloads%2Ffiles%2FGates%2FTimingBeltReplacementChart.pdf&ei=hADFUZanMcTc4APzo4GABw&usg=AFQjCNEF98XD02TSJWB1bP1kXe2-P7NI7w
Im at 95K and about to learn how to change it myself because they want $800 for belt and waterpump swap out
I threw in the towel and had the dealer do it because as I stood over the right fender and looked down at the tight sqeeze to work in to get the stuff out and ready for the belt swap and looking at the 2009 spectra timing belt replacement details downloaded from the internet, my lower back started to pain with the lean over (I'm 78 and believe me age does make a difference in auto repair). Had the drive belts to the power steering, water pump, and alternator changed, too. Just under $600 for the whole potato. My plan now is to pick some mechanic's brain who has seen a few timing belts in his time relative to the mileage and would he reuse the one that was removed (not really ready for replacement) or how many more estimated miles left on the belt in question.. You got 95K! Jeff is probably having a heart attack.
I also had the same dilemma, I have a prefect running 2002 Kia Spectra, I bought it "used" with less than 5,000 miles on it. So IT was a new car. I keep up on the basic maintenance; oil, air filter changes at about 4500 miles. Then upgraded to an aftermarket intake and filter. Plus went from the stock 1 1/4 exhaust pipe to a 2" pipe, with a LOW pitch muffler. (NOT A COFFEE CAN! THAT SOUNDS LIKE SHIT!) anyways, I went back and forth about when I was going to change my timing belt, I ended up not changing it until I reached 104,000 miles. When I got the belt and water pump off, everything was BEAUTIFUL! The belt looked like it had maybe 10,000 miles on it, teeth were totally intact, no fraying, no chips, AND no stretch. But since I was already freezing my ass off in the carport, Everything was completed. But as always when you're under a car you see more little things, will be fixed in time. I didn't have to replace anything besides the belt and pump. I will say it wasn't all easy going, I did have to uninstall the motor mount and tear everything off the front of the motor. So a guesstimated time frame was about 6 hours, ( I took my time and looked at everything.) and the cost of belt, water pump, anti-freeze for a complete flush,and new plugs and wires. I was at about $190.00 for parts, and nothing (my time) for labor. If I were to rank how hard this was to do I would say intermediate. This was my first TB & WP, I've installed in a running vehicle. I had put those things in doing engine rebuilds. I hope this may help someone.
Hey guys! I have a 2006 Kia Spectra5 with 163,000 miles. I am just now getting the timing belt changed for the first time. I have never had any issues with the Engine in this vehicle. My mechanic is changing the Timing Belt, Water Pump and Gasket, Coolant Pump Belt, Air Conditioner Pump belt, and the Power Steering Belt. He is going to do all of this for $500. I think that is very reasonable price for that amount of work. Although I never had any issues with the timing belt, I wouldn't recommend going 163k miles before changing it. ;) I also ordered all of the parts straight from KIA, not that Autozone Crap. Ive kept the oil changed every 3k mi, and I plan to be driving this car well over 300k miles.
I had a 2004 Kia Sorento , bought it new. Never had a problem with it. I didn't know about replacing the timing belt. I was driving down the highway one afternoon (vehicle had about 160,000 miles on it) the belt broke and the engine locked up. If I knew then what I know now I would have replaced the belt every 60,000 miles.
I have a 2009 kia rio5. Belt was squeeking for a couple of weeks now oon my way to work im pretty sure my belt fell off. Any advise on how I should approach this? Im not good with cars
I bought my 2002 Kia Spectra brand new with 18 miles on it. at about 30k I had some warranty work done that I can not remember, but they changed the timing belt at that time. It now has 160k on it. I have never changed the belt. Matter of fact I have never done anything serious to it. at about 80k I changes the fan belts and spark plugs. It has never had brakes, struts, or any other wear part replaced and they are all still in good shape. I have replaced the spark plugs, belts, the left side head light about a dozen times, but never the right side, the battery, windshield wipers, tires, and the factory stereo. the AC leaks a littel but still works.
For what its worth, I have a 2007 Sportage that just hit 230,00 miles with the original timing belt still installed. That's a lot of driving. But I'm not going to challenge karma anymore. Replacing it this week.
For what its worth, I have a 2007 Sportage that just hit 230,00 miles with the original timing belt still installed. That's a lot of driving. But I'm not going to challenge karma anymore. Replacing it this week.
My 2009 Kia Rio had it's timing belt replaced before its warranty was up (june 30,2014). I had to pay for the belt, np. But I immediately noticed a whining noise coming from the engine. I took it back in today and they showed me the idler pulley that is seizing and wiggling, causing the new timing belt to wear and squeal. They have to order in a new pulley (something they have never had to do before) and I have to also pay for another new timing belt!! It is july 2, so since yesterday was a holiday, I am technically 1 day out of warranty. They said that they have "grace" money that they can use to cover the pulley and the labor but I would still have to cover the 2nd new timing belt, a $100 charge! I don't feel that I should have to pay. The belt would have had to been put on with too much tension causing the pulley to become defective. Any comments? Supposed to have it fixed in two days so was going to talk to kia manager about it tomorrow. Any other ammunition I could use??
Hello Michelle, This sounds like the a typical dealership giving the ladies a runaround! I worked in the dealerships as a tech for over 14years before throwing in the shop towel due to an auto accident on the job. Now to answer your question, there are freak things that happen but the tech working on your vehicle should have inspected all components pertaining to the timing belt and I personally would be a bit perturbed and would not let them take you for a ride if you understand my lingo. DO NOT LET THEM TAKE ADVANTAGE OF YOU! It always upset me when a female came in the dealership because the service writer always thought "she knows no better"! Do let them, they should take full responsibility and as for the grace all they are doing is covering up a mistake and making it look like they are helping you when in turn they are just making you pay for something they should have caught in the first place under warranty. God Bless You and I wish you the best.
I have on 2006 Spectra5 replacement timing belt broke at about 75,000. God must have been watching out for me because could not find any damage in the cylinders. Used a borescope to check everything out looked good. Put a good gates belt on myself not the autozone one the garage used. I would not take a chance on this kind of outcome as 99 times out of a hundred you will have bent valves and a boat load of work and money.
Just happened to be looking around at how to change a belt when I started seeing posts like these pop up all over the place. I have a 2008 Spectra @ 125k miles Bought it brand new 5 years ago. Still has original EVERYTHING. Well, I changed the rear brake pads. I've been sufficiently scared into taking it in on pay day for new belts and such. =)
I have a 2008 KIA Spectra as well. The car is 6 years old now and I bought it brand new May 2008. I took the car in this morning to the KIA Service Department. They said that the Powertane Warranty of 10 yrs or 100,000 miles - states I need to change out the timing belt at 90,000 or 72 months - whichever came first. I only have 16,650 miles on the car now, but it is 6 years old. Therefore, based on time - they told me I should be replacing the belt. Parts and Labor for it $465.00 All filters, oil change, tires rotated, all everything up to tip top shape again... $700. I was leery to do it - but being that the car has not needed ANY maintenance outside of oil filters, changes, and fluids really.. I think its worth it. If the timing belt breaks - you are left with engine failure as it does rely on it. If the engine dies on the car - $465 becomes miniscule - add a 0 to the end. I was told and I read that mileage is not the main issue on them but time - as they dry out and could break at any time. I would prefer to spend the $465 now and get it taken care of and maintain the warranty then have the belt break in my commute one day. Better safe than sorry.
Yep, about to pick mine up in 45 minutes. About $475 for the timing belt change. Had them do the drive belts, wheel alignment, and oil change while they had it - ended up just under $700. Next month I'll go get the filters and fluids changed. Definitely worth it to pony up some cash now to avoid adding that zero later on. I'm not interested in getting a new car anytime soon and have no doubt I could hit the 300k mark some day. Has been a fantastic car.
Have a 2009 Kia Spectra. I use Fully Synthetic Extended mileage oil and filters and change the oil every 10000-15000 miles. I had the timing belt changed at 100,000 miles because that is when they generally begin the wear. (Also had a 30 yr master mech check it over @ 60,000 to see if dealer suggestion was a scam. It was in perfect condition. You may make your own inferences if you wish.) Have never changed tranny fluid. Needs a drain and fill soon. Antifreeze changed when timing belt swapped. I swapped pads one time at around 85,000 miles or so just to be safe. I also bled the brakes as well. (OE Pads and fluid for bleeding are cheap.) Now has 140,000 miles on it and needs a battery soon because I'm dumb and I've drained it three times because of lights. Also the weather right now sucks and cold freezes batteries, which causes them to need jump starts. Jump starting a frozen battery causes the alternator to charge the frozen battery since it is lacking a sufficient charge. Charging a frozen battery ruins the battery. So the battery is partially my fault but you go get a tow after working 12 hours straight in -30 degree windchill conditions loading an A300 Airbus. You won't do it. You'll be like a Honey Badger. Honey Badger sees a rattlesnake, but does he care? No. Honey Badger doesn't care.
Can anyone tell me where the timing lineup marks r suppose to be on a 07 kia spectra
I read some of these answers about timing belts and they just stretch credulity to the limit. You can make your own decisions, but, if it were my car, I would definitely recommend that you change the timing belt and water pump when the owners manual recommended it and remember, mileage and time are equally important. So, if you don't drive that much, change this every 7 to 8 years, otherwise, you're running the risk of blowing your engine.
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Does anybody know about two Julie Dash films "Making Angels" (made in 2010) and "The Scarapist (made in 2009)? The Wikipedia article about Julie Dash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_Dash) says she made these films, but I can't get any information about them. I'm writing an article about Julie Dash and I need to know about these films. Thanks.
What about Antoine Fuqua, who directed Denzel Washington's Oscar-winning performance inTraining Day alongside Tears of the Sun, King Arthur, Shooter and Brooklyn's Finest?

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I know that salt kills slugs, but what will it do to my plants? I found some slugs on my boardwalk, and murdered them all with a salt shower, but now I want to execute their compatriots. The idea of plucking the slimy creatures off my plants does not thrill me. Can't I just give them a similar seasoning?
.....that in some parts of the world these wouldn't be a problem, because they would be appetizers!!!
Just throw a little pepper on them too and deep fry them in batter. Hmmmm good!! The word will get around in the slug community, and they'll be packing their slimy little bags in no time!!!:D
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Charles Stark Draper, Cambridge, Mass., is being awarded a $22,925,900 cost-plus-fee contract for the preliminary design of a multi-mission inertial navigation system. Work will be performed in Cambridge, Mass., and is expected to be completed by September 2001. Contract funds will not expire by the end of the current fiscal year. This contract was not competitively procured. The Navy's Strategic Systems Programs, Washington, D.C., is the contracting activity (N00030-01-C-0028).
The Boeing Co., Information and Surveillance Systems Division, Kent, Wash., is being awarded a $18,343,938 modification to a previously awarded contract N00019-99-C-1228 to exercise an option for the integration, installation, and test of the multi-functional display system (MDS) into the E-6B production aircraft. The contract also includes integrated logistic support, spare sets of parts and required data for the E-6B modifications. The estimated level of effort for this option is 80,000 man-hours. Work will be performed in Seattle, Wash. (40%), Wichita, Kan. (30%), and Tinker Air Force Base, Okla. (30%) and is expected to be completed by October 2001. Contract funds will not expired at the end of the current fiscal year. The Naval Air Warfare Center Weapons Division, Patuxent River, Md., is the contracting activity.
Triton Service, Inc., Electron Technology Division, Easton, Pa., is being awarded a firm-fixed-price, indefinite delivery/indefinite quantity contract with a not to exceed cost of $13,731,595 for the procurement of 371 Microwave Power Module Amplifiers. The amplifiers are used in the AN/ULQ-21 Electronic Counter Measures (ECM) Set, which provides realistic simulation of present and projected ECM threats during developmental testing of new weapons systems. Work will be performed in Easton, Pa., and is expected to be completed by December 2006. This contract was competitive procured with eight proposals solicited and 2 offers received. The Naval Air Warfare Center Weapons Division, Point Mugu, Calif., is the contracting activity (N69839-01-D-0002).
Triton Marine Construction Co., Bremerton, Wash.; Boro Developers, King of Prussia, Pa.; Arena Construction Co., Inc., Elmsford, N. Y.; and Volmar Construction, Brooklyn N. Y., are being awarded a firm-fixed-price indefinite-quantity multiple award construction contract. Triton Marine Construction Co., is being awarded the initial task order in the amount of $13,000,000 for renovation of Building 20 at the Naval Business Center, Philadelphia, Pa., minimum guarantee included, with expected completion in November 2002. Work will be performed in Maine, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Vermont, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Delaware, and is expected to be completed by December 2005. The total contract is not to exceed $100,000,000. Contract funds will not expire by the end of the current fiscal year. This contract was competitively procured via the NAVFAC e-solicitation web site with four proposals received. These four contractors may compete for task orders under the terms and conditions of the awarded contract. The Engineering Command, Lester, Penn., is the contracting activity (N62472-00-D-0800/0801/0802/0803).
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Lockheed Martin Services Inc., Huntsville, Ala., is being awarded $9,950,000 as part of a $33,000,000 firm-fixed-price contract for a General Purpose Electronic Test Stations 1000B1M with options, for Taiwan and Israel. Work will be performed in Huntsville, Ala., and is expected to be completed by Dec. 31, 2005. Contract funds will not expire at the end of the current fiscal year. This is a sole source contract initiated on July 21, 1999. The U.S. Army Aviation & Missile Command, Redstone Arsenal, Ala., is the contracting activity (DAAH01-01-C-0030).
Skyhook Technologies Inc.*, Draper, Utah, was awarded on Dec. 5, 2000, a $7,154,456 task order amount as part of firm-fixed-price contract DAAA09-99-D-0014, for 100 Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC) A-Kits for the CH-47D Chinook helicopter engine. Work will be performed in Huntsville, Ala., and is expected to be completed by July 31, 2003. This is a sole source contract initiated on June 14, 2000. The U.S. Operations Support Command, Rock Island, Ill., is the contracting activity (DAAA09-99-D-0014).
Iridium Satellite LLC, Arnold, Md., was awarded on Dec. 5, 2000 a letter contract for unlimited airtime and airtime support services for up to 20,000 Federal government subscribers for a base period of three months at a price of $3,000,000 per month. The period of performance of the contract upon definitization is expected to be for 24 months at the same per month price. Option terms have not been negotiated. This contract was awarded under the National Security exception of the Competition in Contracting Act. 10 U.S.C. Section 2304(c)(6). The Defense Information Technology Contracting Organization, Arlington, VA, is the contracting activity (DCA100-01-C-4007).


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Judge admits people will be surprised as he frees burglar
Posted: October 22, 2012|
A CAREER criminal who admitted burgling 21 homes has been spared jail after he convinced a judge he was a reformed character.
The judge, recorder Robin Belben, told Martin Harris: "A lot of right-thinking people will think: 'What are you doing? He should be going to prison'.
"But if there is one person who has turned their life around and it is worthwhile trying to encourage, then it is you."
Harris, 53, confessed to breaking into homes in and around Plymouth over two years, escaping with valuables including jewellery worth thousands of pounds.
He drove around streets at night trying to see which lights were off so he could target empty homes, police said.
Harris had a long record for burglary with offences going back to 1972, Plymouth Crown Court heard.
But the judge, who admitted he had gone into court with a long jail term in mind, gave him a community order instead of a jail sentence.
Harris, of Brentford Avenue, Whitleigh, admitted a single burglary in Plympton in May.
pleaded guilty to taking jewellery, a vase, a handbag, bank cards and paperwork of an unknown value in a burglary in Revell Park Road.
But he asked for 20 other offences of domestic burglary to be taken into consideration.
Alistair Verheijen, for the Crown Prosecution Service, said Harris was arrested in the early hours of May 24.
He said a neighbour who had heard a noise called the police who saw him dropping a bag of valuables over a wall into a garden.
Mr Verheijen said the owners of the home had at the time been in separate care homes.
He read a statement from the woman's niece, saying the offence was "extremely distressing" for her aunt.
Jo Martin, for Harris, said he had been working with the Hamoaze House and Harbour drug agencies since May.
She added: "His engagement on relapse prevention programmes had been exceptional".
Miss Martin said he was now taking the anticoagulant drug warfarin which would stop him drinking and smoking.
Dc Kevin Giles, who works with prolific offenders, said that the 20 burglaries would not have been solved without the confession from Harris.
He added: "He was under financial pressure and he went back to doing what he had always done."
Dc Giles said outside court Harris had been driving around streets, mostly in villages outside Plymouth, seeing which houses had their lights on at about 9pm or 10pm. He would return later to the dark homes, targeting jewellery in particular.
Recorder Belben admitted his sentence was "exceptional".
He gave him a two-year community order with a six-month electronically-tagged curfew between 7pm and 7am.
The judge said he would not impose a suspended prison sentence, but it would tie the hands of a future court.
But he vowed if Harris was convicted of another offence he would be "locked up for a long time".


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debt crisis
By Gavin Kelly - 18 May 01:51
Not yet.
By Gavin Kelly - 25 January 12:26
Nice or nasty, either way the economic future doesn't look great.
By Petros Fassoulas - 02 December 10:32
It's certainly the end of the eurozone as we know it.
By Mark Jenner - 17 October 06:22
The Chancellor's economic strategy under increased pressure .
By Eleanor Margolis - 31 August 02:09
An economic study finds that the UK's debt burden has reached the point where it is damaging to grow
By Sophie FitzMaurice - 24 August 01:01
The credit rating agency Moody's has downgraded Japan's debt from Aa2 to Aa3.
By Ann Pettifor - 07 August 11:52
And our elected politicians should call the bankers' bluff.
By Mehdi Hasan - 06 August 12:26
Standard and Poor's decision to downgrade the United States's credit rating is outrageous and undemocratic.


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Sandro Grundmann
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October 10, 2011
if you could install it - you could operate it, everybody starts from scratch, so let's run it (24x7). And yes the 500 GB MongoDB runs now. No, it... was'nt as easy as i thought, i had a lot to learn and i'm still learning. It was nice to see the MongoDB Versions developping and becoming the stable Enterprise DB that i promised right in time. And i will tell you the whole story ;-)


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iPad Air 2 hardware specs & design rumors: Is a 12.9-inch iPad really on the way? October 13, 2014 at 2:24 pm
With Apple's new iPad event officially scheduled for October 16, it's time to take a final look at all of the leaked and rumored hardware specs and design details. In some ways, Apple's new iPads will actually be more interesting than the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus: While the smartphone market is still growing rapidly and the iPhone continues to be disgustingly popular, iPad sales have started to slow over the last 12 months, meaning Apple might be attempt something a little more daring than just a thinner and lighter version of last year's model.
Windows 10 unveiled: All the new features and changes from Windows 8 September 30, 2014 at 3:14 pm
Microsoft has unveiled Windows 10 — not Windows 9, but Windows 10. The event in San Francisco was mostly what we expected: Microsoft wants to make Windows 10 a killer OS for all of those disaffected mouse-and-keyboard users — both consumers like you and I, and also the big enterprise customers who were rather displeased with Windows 8's Metro interface. Read on to find out about Windows 10's new features and changes from Windows 8.
iPhone 6 hardware specs and design: The final leaks and rumors rounded up (updated) September 8, 2014 at 5:17 pm
With its release date soon approaching, the usual bevy of iPhone 6 design and hardware leaks are flowing thick and fast. With the pressure on Apple to innovate in the mobile space, and Android (and Samsung) continuing to steal away market share, the iPhone 6 will need to be seriously impressive on multiple fronts — which could be difficult, considering this may be the first iPhone designed without help from Steve Jobs. As usual, there's an utterly insane number of iPhone 6 hardware and design rumors, spanning everything from multiple screen sizes (up to 5.5 inches!) to close integration with an upcoming (and still unannounced) iWatch smartwatch.
4.7- and 5.5-inch iPhone 6, sapphire glass iWatch, NFC payments confirmed by new report September 5, 2014 at 11:10 am
We're just a few days away from Apple's special event on September 9, and right on schedule the New York Times has published a detailed exposé — most likely leaked directly by the highest echelons of Apple — of everything that we can expect. We now have almost-certain confirmation that the iPhone 6 will come in two flavors — a 4.7-inch model, and a 5.5-inch phablety monster. Furthermore, Apple will also reveal its first new product since Tim Cook took the helm from Steve Jobs three years ago: the iWatch.
iPhone 6 rumor roundup: Will the next iPhone have a 4.7-inch sapphire display, NFC, or a reversible USB cable? August 21, 2014 at 1:40 pm
Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference (WWDC) is next week, and rumors are flying fast about what the next iPhone is going to be like. It's been nearly nine months since the iPhone 5 launched, and consumers are starting to get antsy. Even if we don't get any substantial information directly from Apple at its keynote on the 10th, parts are starting to leak out, and industry speculation is going wild.
New Nexus 9 leak points to 64-bit Nvidia Tegra K1, 4GB of RAM, and 2560×1600 screen August 8, 2014 at 3:43 pm
The Nexus 9 leaks continue to roll in, making Google's next tablet look like a real beast.
Xbox Fun: Xbox One to get massive price cut, 1TB hard drive, report says January 31, 2014 at 3:13 pm
So, what does Microsoft have up its sleeve for the Xbox One? Will we see a bigger hard drive, or maybe a cheaper disc-free model? With the PS4 taking the early lead in sales, Microsoft is definitely going to need to react in some way, especially considering the PS4 is set for a mammoth release next month in its home country of Japan. Thanks to a huge dump of leaked information, we might already know what to expect out of Redmond in 2014.
iPad 5 and iPad Mini 2 release date, event details, and hardware specs rounded up October 9, 2013 at 3:46 pm
AllThingsD is reporting that Apple will hold its invite-only event on October 22nd, and that neatly falls in line with what we've been hearing out of the rumor mill. While there haven't been any firm details about the release date of the next iPad and iPad Mini, the rumored November 1st timeframe seems like a reasonable expectation — at least here in the United States.
PS4 is '50% faster' than Xbox One, report game developers September 16, 2013 at 2:48 pm
Microsoft has gone out of its way to dismiss the PS4's perceived superiority, but recent reports indicate that Redmond might be in more trouble than it is letting on. If these rumors are to be believed, the PS4 is actually upwards of 50% more powerful than the Xbox One.
Will Apple abandon the iPhone 5S in favor of an iPhone 6 and iPhone Mini? July 2, 2013 at 1:46 pm
We've seen a number of supposed leaks for the next iPhone in the last month. Plastic backs, gold trim, and even a phablet-sized redesign have been bandied about, but we're starting to see some interesting trends. Most recently, the idea of a cheap colorful iPhone has really taken off. At this point, it's a pretty safe assumption that we'll see at least one plastic iPhone launch this year.


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State of Rhode Island
Department of Health
PRAMS, the Pregnancy Risk Assessment Monitoring System, is a population-based surveillance program. PRAMS uses a confidential survey to identify and monitor selected maternal attitudes, behaviors and experiences before, during, and after pregnancy – information that is not routinely available from other sources Rhode Island implemented PRAMS in 2002 and is one of 41 states currently participating in PRAMS. more Each month about 165 Rhode Island women who recently gave birth are randomly chosen to receive the survey by mail About 1,900 women, more than 16% of recent mothers, are selected to participate in PRAMS each year. Rhode Island PRAMS surveys all mothers who deliver a low birth weight infant and prior to 2012, over-sampled births occurring in the core cities of Central Falls, Newport, Pawtucket, Providence, West Warwick and Woonsocket. Several actions are taken to obtain a high response rate. A gift card is sent with the first survey in appreciation for their anticipated participation. The survey is mailed out a second and third time to women who do not respond to the initial mailing. Women who do not respond after three mailings are called and offered the opportunity to complete the survey over the telephone. Surveys and interviews are available in English and Spanish. The PRAMS program requires state's to achieve at least a 65% response rate from the participants. The data from completed surveys are analyzed and used to improve the health of pregnant women and their babies including:


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Meeting set on proposed W.Va. fishing regulations
SOUTH CHARLESTON, W.Va. (AP) — A public meeting on proposed changes to West Virginia's fishing regulations will be held next week at Stonewall Jackson Lake.
The changes include a six-fish-per-day creel limit. One of these may be 18 inches or longer for black bass. There also would be a 52-inch minimum size limit with a one fish per day creel limit for muskellunge.
Currently, there is a catch-and-release regulation in place for all black bass and a 30-inch minimum size limit with a two-fish per day creel limit for muskellunge.
DNR Wildlife Resources Section assistant chief Bret Preston says the open-house style meeting will be held from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m. July 11 at the park's administration building.
The Herald-Dispatch welcomes your comments on this article, but please be civil. Avoid profanity, obscenity, personal attacks, accusations of criminal activity, name-calling or insults to the other posters. Herald-dispatch.com does not control or monitor comments as they are posted, but if you find a comment offensive or uncivil, hover your mouse over the comment and click the X that appears in the upper right of the comment. If you do not want your comment to post to your personal Facebook page, uncheck the box below the comment.


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Cancer Care Partner Support Group
Sharp offers a free monthly support group for family and friends of cancer patients to share experiences and information with each other.
Registration is required prior to attending.
To register and to find out if this support group is right for you, please contact the program manager by providing your name and email address in the "Learn More" box above. Someone will contact you within two business days.
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Don Vito Spendelli....please just go away....go away....go away.....you are the WORST governor in the HISTORY of PA........and, as a Steelers fan, if you ever put on a Steelers jersey again, I hope you get the worlds worst rash......
Let's call a spade a spade....these "universalist" churches aren't really churches of the Christian faith....I'm Catholic......these Unitarian/Universalist "churches" are simply a refuge for nut jobs. Roe v. Wade will eventually get overturned. The decision was based on a "right" that does not exist in the Constitution...."the right to privacy" is not enumerated anywhere. Roe v. Wade, IMO, will probably get overturned via an argument based upon the, I believe, the 14th Amendment......
Oh great, "Spendell" just put the hex on us by donning a Steelers jersey....what a jerk! Couldn't he just say he's pulling for the Steelers? Did he really have to "hoo-er" himself out like a typical politician? Guys like "Spendell" are what the people voted out in November. We're tired of these charlatains.....I wish he would go back to NYC - that's where he's actually from.....leave the entire fargin' state you fargin' bastage.
A REAL and TRUE American HERO! What Major Winters and that generation did for our nation - and - what the troops today are doing combating terrorism are truly America's Bests and Brightest....not these Ivy League egg-heads that "policy wonks", spoiled athletes and entertainers.....this man should have schools, stadiums, bridges, parks, etc named after him. Thank you for allowing me and my family to sleep easy as night knowing I live in freedom.....I weep for your passing, but rejoice in your reward to be with God.
The bozo that said he should resign because he only won 7 games....2 national titles in 4 years....60 plus wins over 7 years.....please.....
There is NOT a separate CD East School District and CD School District. The school district you reside in is The Central Dauphin School District. There are 2 high schools within the CDSD - CD & CD East. One school is primarily middle & upper middle class and the other is middle class and lower middle class - economic speaking. The main reason for such disparity is how the boundary lines are drawn....but that's another argument for another day.
Are you for real? That "wetlands" bs is the biggest bunch of bs ever. That was invented under Jimmy Carter to crush business in this country. God forbid we kill a disease carry mosquito or fly...or some stupid frog the no one gives a flyin' s--t about. We either own our property or not? This guy took extra care to keep the flow of water intact, yet some lefty judge decides the mosquito and West Nile Virus outweighs the rights of the citizenry....
I am not one for government intervention, but in cases like this, the city should come and knock these blighted properties down...send the owner a bill and if he/she doesn't pay, then attach their wages....or.....knock it down, take it via eminent domain and sell it to a builder for $500 on the condition they build a new home there for re-sale.
What is "NULL" - I posted and can't get back....help, I've posted and can't get back.....new format STINKS like a fish in 100 degree weather.....
If I remember correctly.....this arena's roof was built to re-tract for summer concerts. I thought I read a few years ago that the roof can no longer re-tract. Can anyone corroborate this?
To the posters blasting the hardworking taxpayers that got their items stolen by a few pieces of human excrement......you're a bunch of dopes. CitizenGreg, taking a spelling class "stpuid"??? By the way, talking to people in the neighborhood, many of them did have their cars locked. There are devices manual and electronic that can open cars....search E-bay......and if memory serves me correct, the people that live in this development probably pay higher taxes than the rest of the "townies" that live in the older neighborhoods, since their homes are newer and have the most up to date assessments.....so shut your pie hole griping about tax dollars being wasted.....let's see 20 cars, 16 homes a borough that is what, 4 square miles.....where's the patrol car going through every 20-40 minutes???? You wise-acres (it's a family site) didn't mention that did you? Where's the cops? Eating donuts at Sheetz???? 36 break-ins going on and the patrolman (men) miss(es) it all in a 4 square mile borough - THAT'S THE BIGGER QUESTION!
The press is all in a tizzy about this....but not a peep from these liberal socialists when Bush was President and people were making movies and writing books about assassinating him. All of a sudden their guy is getting blasted and they act shocked at this.....with Bush, they giggled and said "free speech, free speech, blah, blah,".....go bite me NBC10 out of Philly and the rest of the media outlets that never posted one thing when it was done to Bush.
In about 4 years we get to correct this mistake. Hopefully, someone with some backbone will run. Acorn gets $5 Billion of our taxpayers, yet faith based groups are getting cut out of the equation with Obama. Wake up Casey, you idiot!
In about 4 years we get to correct this mistake. Hopefully, someone with some backbone will run. Acorn gets $5 Billion of our taxpayers, yet faith based groups are getting cut out of the equation with Obama. Wake up Casey, you idiot!


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Michael De Leon
Michael A. De Leon is a graphic designer by day, but wears many hats in his off time. In 2004, after several years of covering the Spurs, he started Project Spurs, a Spurs team fansite as an outlet to provide content to Spurs fans, while continuing to write for himself and learning the ins and outs of online publishing and web design. He has since built a writing team and started a popular weekly Spurs podcast called the Spurscast.
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Parker embarrasses Bosh, dribbles through his legs
by: Jose Grijalva It wasn't an eventful All-Star Game for Miami Heat center Chris Bosh. As you'll see in this video, Bosh fell victim to Los Angeles Clippers point guard Chris Paul first in the second quarter then had an encore with San Antonio Spurs point guard Tony Parker also dribbling through his legs. You […] [Read More]
Like a Bosh should be a good thing
By Trevor Zickgraf, Project Spurs? Remember Major League 2? Remember how Ricky "Wild Thing" Vaughn played by Charlie Sheen showed up to training camp wearing a suit, a hot blond agent/trophy girlfriend and an arsenal of awful pitches he had given names to as some sort of attempt at branding.?? I mean who could forget […] [Read More]


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pared with nonimpaired readers (Shaywitz, B. et al., in press; Brunswick et al., 1999; Rumsey et al., 1997; Shaywitz et al., 1998, submitted; Georgiewa et al., 1999).The involvement of the posterior region centered about the angular gyrus is of particular interest, since this portion of association cortex is considered pivotal in carrying out those cross-modal integrations necessary for reading—that is, mapping the visual percept of the print onto the phonological structures of the language (Benson, 1994; Black and Behrmann, 1994; Geschwind, 1965). Consistent with this study of developmental dyslexia, a large literature on acquired inability to read (alexia) describes neuroanatomic lesions most prominently centered about the angular gyrus (Damasio and Damasio, 1983; Dejerine, 1891; Friedman et al., 1993).
It should not be surprising that both the acquired and the developmental disorders affecting reading have in common a disruption in the neural systems serving to link the visual representations of the letters to the phonological structures they represent. While reading difficulty is the primary symptom in both acquired alexia and developmental dyslexia, associated symptoms and findings in the two disorders would be expected to differ somewhat, reflecting the differences between an acquired and a developmental disorder. In acquired alexia, a structural lesion resulting from an injury, such as stroke or tumor, disrupts a component of an already functioning neural system, and the lesion may extend to involve other brain regions and systems. In developmental dyslexia, as a result of a constitutionally based functional disruption, the system never develops normally so that the symptoms reflect the emanative effects of an early disruption to the phonological system. In either case, the disruption is within the same neuroanatomic system. A number of studies of young adults with childhood histories of dyslexia indicate that although they may develop some accuracy in reading words, they remain slow, nonautomatic readers (Bruck, 1992; Felton et al., 1990).
The model used to study reading and reading disability has now been extended to the study of mathematics and mathematics disability. Though these studies are still in their infancy, the indications are that within the next decade, understanding of the underlying cognitive and neurobiological underpinnings of mathematics disability will be elucidated.
The concept of unexpected underachievement remains the central diagnostic criterion for designating a child as LD. Because the definition of LD in EHA/IDEA provided insufficient criteria for identifying eligible children, in 1977 the Department of Education published guidelines for the identification of an unexpected underachievement, settling on an operational defi-


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Rumors are spreading this a.m. that the reality-based number cruncher at the New York Times, Nate Silver, may soon be appointed to a high position in the Obama Administration.**
Silver successfully humiliated the entire D.C. center-right pundit class and Fox News by nailing the polling and the high probability of an Obama election victory by looking at and understanding what polling numbers actually mean. He may now be picked to replace Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner or become head of the White House Office of Management and Budget or some other high advisory position where his skills are sadly missing.
While the White House has made no official announcement, several sources with close ties to the Administration confirmed the matter is under discussion.
"It would vastly improve America's policies and help restore the economy if the White House began listening to someone with a proven track record and who actually uses and understands facts and numerical relationships, instead of discredited dogma," a White House adviser who asked for anonymity remarked. "This would be especially good for the economy and the role actual facts, proven mathematical relationships, economic experience, and a commitment to rationality play in setting policies to improve employment, reduce inequality, which has continued it's 40 year slide over the last four years, supporting growth and creating fairness in the tax code.
Silver is now acknowledged, even among a few Serious People, to have the ability and courage to use actual facts and numbers to predict the probability of events, and not being afraid to express them. These are skills several White House friends saw as noticeably missing in Mr. Obama's first term and lacking among his key economic and political advisers. They cited several areas in which Silver's type of reality-based predictions could benefit the country and help frame a more beneficial agenda for the President and Congress over the next few years. For example:
- Silver would likely note that a policy of austerity, as currently advocated by both parties and the White House, particularly one focused on significant cuts in government domestic spending when the economy was still recovering, would have a high probability, likely 95.4%, of increasing unemployment and reducing GDP while stripping valuable services and needed investments from the federal budget .
- Silver could read and understand the relevant, fact-based analyses/studies that show that reducing taxes on the rich would just increase the economic and political power of the extremely wealthy to the detriment of the middle class and poor, thus worsening inequality, slowing growth and undermining democratic principles. Probability: about 97.3 %.
- He would also predict, with 84.7% confidence, that raising taxes on the very wealthy would have virtually no adverse effect on the economy, since all the claims they are the "job creators" driving the economy was just dogma.
- Silver would do the math to show that proposed changes in the Social Security COLA formula likely to be accepted by Congress and the Administration would adversely impact the economically most vulnerable seniors, for no good reason. Probability: 100%
- Silver would actually pay attention to, understand and explain the economic studies that show the current deficits are not a crises and that the long-run debt to GDP ratios are not a structural problem except for growing private (not government) health-care costs, and even that issue may be receding if, in fact, those costs are no longer rising at their previously unsustainable course, as recent studies suggest. Probability that most of Congress and the Administration will get this wrong: 82.5%.
- Silver could use data from Hurrican Sandy, correlated with massive climate science, to predict the absurdity (92.8%) of continuing to pretend that these events are unrelated one-off events that won't recur or get worse. He might also note, using real numbers, that a policy of "all of the above," which he'd correctly note are mostly the carbon-based fuels that are creating the problem, would fail. (91.3 % probability.)
In short, paying attention to someone who thinks in a reality-based, rational world would lead to dramatic changes in US public policy. It would argue for a dramatic reversal of the expected (100%) destructive policies likely to be pursued in Washington.
Several pundits and D.C. politicians have already begun to predict that anyone with Silver's skills, honesty, and attitude toward facts could never be appointed to any position of power or influence. Chris Cilliza noted that the likelihood of this happening was zero, so Serious People shouldn't think about this further and should continue to be be misinformed by the Washington Post.
Speaker John Boehner said he'd rather the country go to hell and a hand basket before Congress should listen to someone whose statements were reality-based and diametrically the opposite of his members, who live in another universe. A Boehner aide later clarified Mr. Boehner meant that he believed the nation, and particularly the House existed in another universe, and we just had to accept that. Probability he would lose his job if he accepted Silver's reality-based mindset: 100%.
**Satire probability: 100%


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Fit in S.A.
Jessica Belasco on the latest on local fitness news, upcoming races, gym openings and how San Antonio residents are getting in shape.
Monthly Archive for May, 2011
S.A. ranks 33rd out of 50 cities in fitness index
Out of the 50 largest metropolitan areas in the country, San Antonio ranked 33rd in the American College of Sports Medicine's American Fitness Index data report. Not an impressive showing. But there's an upside: the city's rank rose from 43rd place in 2010. The report evaluated figures related to healthy lifestyles and physical activity to determine […] [Read More]


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Thursday, July 9, 2009
© Copyright 2015 Gwinnett Daily Post
LAWRENCEVILLE - Gwinnett County principals said they're starting to analyze the results of a state standardized test, of which the school-level results were released this week.The results of the Criterion-Referenced Competency Tests (CRCT), administered to Georgia's first- through eighth-graders each spring, do more than help determine if a school will make Adequate Yearly Progress (AYP) under the federal No Child Left Behind Act, the principals said. The data help schools develop improvement plans. "The results help us communicate our mission," Sweetwater Middle School principal Georgann Eaton said. "They provide something very tangible to use as the conversation piece." Eaton said she knows teachers and parents aren't the only people interested in knowing how students perform on the CRCT. Business owners, real estate agents and community leaders seek the results as well. "Better schools build stronger communities," Eaton said. "(The CRCT results are) something that gives us a common ground." The CRCT results are just one thing educators use to target instruction and improve a school's achievement results, Meadowcreek Elementary School principal Kelli McCain said. "If you use it properly, you can really dissect a student's knowledge and levels of knowledge to help them be successful the following year," McCain said. "If there's something in the curriculum all the kids have mastered, you don't have to spend a lot of time teaching that skill." Each school's CRCT results are available on the Georgia Department of Education's Web site. To see the results, visit www.gadoe.org, click on the press release titled "CRCT Scores Increase in All Areas," and then click on State-, System- and School-Level Scores.
More like this story
- Cheers for fears: Schools hold celebrations to alleviate CRCT anxieties ( April 2, 2009 )
- Schools celebrate CRCT improvement ( July 6, 2011 )
- Harder math, science tests lead to low scores ( June 6, 2006 )
- Study compares grades and EOCT results ( February 4, 2009 )
- Analysis: GCPS testing process working ( February 10, 2010 )


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A jury sentenced Curtis Alexander Brown, 56, to three years suspended all but eight months on manslaughter by motor vehicle charges.
Officers say the tractor trailer struck Michael Fink Sr.'s Chevrolet pickup truck head-on. Police say Fink Sr. died on scene.
Court officials say after a three day jury trial, Brown was found guilty of criminally negligent manslaughter by motor vehicle, failure to drive right of center, speeding, and speed greater than reasonable.
Officials say Brown was sentenced to eight months, followed by three years of supervised probation.
This case marks the first time criminally negligent manslaughter has been charged and tried in
In a written release, Attorney J. Charles Smith II said, "This was a very difficult case, both from an emotional and legal perspective."


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HDMI = black virtual console (VGA = OK)
Hi guys,
I'm using my Ubuntu 10.4 with nVidia 9300 (256.44) for my mediacenter pc.
I used to attach it via DVI -> VGA. Everything worked fine in 1920x1080, even switching to/from virtual consoles (CTRL+ALT+F1...)
Then I moved to HDMI (to gain more flexibility with refresh rates and XBMC)
and I found I can no longer use virtual consoles.
Screen goes black, with backlight on. I can switch back to X, system dosn't freeze.
I tried advices here
with no success.
Any hint about this ?
Thanks a lot !
Re: HDMI = black virtual console (VGA = OK)
Really - you've got 1080 console with nVidia driver at VGA adaptor?
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|112 posts found
Joined: 7/01/08
Nothing is til it is and even then you never know until its been.
I'm extremely excited for the builder concept. Having players on the battlefield that are defenseless yet building us structures will add a lot to gameplay. I picture it being much like Warcraft 1, my little miner out on his own, gathering my ore, when a gang approaches so I send out my guards to fight them off and protect my miner. Ah memories.
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Elite Member
Joined: 1/04/07
When I started in SWG all I wanted was to be a trader and a crafter....I had little to no combat skills on that character and I had a blast in that game.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Novice Member
Joined: 3/19/07
I have been waiting for a game that let's me make a pure crafter for ages that actually does not have to compete with a mob drop to make sales.
A 100% player drive economy makes the game all the more exciting.
Novice Member
Joined: 3/19/07
Originally posted by DMKano
Bringing a class that can't compete in a competitive RvR game makes no sense.
Mark has said crafters will be very important in rvr since they will need to be protected as they build forts, do repairs, etc. on the battlefield.
Spotlight Poster
Joined: 8/24/06
I would definitely play this class. I wouldn't even enter the battlefield probably either. I just love having my guildmates bring me materials and I craft them whatever that need/want. There's just something about knowing my guildmates are marching into battle using things I made to save thier lives and/or kill our enemies :D
Novice Member
Joined: 4/03/13
Originally posted by belatucadros
Here's the cool thing about what he's defining. You won't need an alt or a "buffbot." Because I'll be around. Sure, I won't be in your group out on the front lines. I'll be just a step behind you, building things up so that when you have to fall back, you have a safe place to fall back to. And, the really cool thing is, I'll be being rewarded for provided this to you. Not in the same way that you are rewarded for those epic fights, but in a way that maeks it even easier for me to support you as the time comes. :-)
Novice Member
Joined: 2/17/13
I'm not sure if it'll work or not. If they're pretty much worthless in a fight I have my doubts, but we'll see.
Novice Member
Joined: 3/08/13
Crafter can be a value added group member, just look at WAR's Engineers. I don't see a reason why a crafter that is at home in the battlefield (seige crafter or a builder) can't be successful in killing the enemy as a group member as long as CSE folks balance it all out properly.
Midranki - To us, Thidranki Faste is not just some center keep, it's our field Guild Hall.
Apprentice Member
Joined: 3/15/13
Why would they need to be competitive in open RvR? If they want to craft, harvest material, or defend/attack a keep, then the players take their crafter. If they want to roam and have non keep fight then they bring another class.
Considering than the crafters will need to go out in contested areas to get the higher crafting tool/ressources, then it won't be you that'll be dragging around a crafter, but the crafter that'll drag you around to get what he wants.
Also, having a defenseless class will create targets for the enemy to attack and you to defend, and so will increase the number and type of different fights. Once you'll have to protect your crafters, the next time you'll be the one attacking, another fight it'll be pure fighters only, add to that keep take and defense, there are already 6 different situations you can get in. It may even increase with the new ideas we will see with this game. Look, here is another situation : you start attacking some of your enemies, then the third realm get into the fight, either giving you an edge over your first target or putting you in a pinch as you have to defend both side.
Apprentice Member
Joined: 12/06/07
I envisioned crafters not so much being in the RvR groups as being solo players or their own small groups running around behind the lines or off in the distance trying to accomplish things. They might have a fighter or two and healer dedicated to them, but the crafters wouldn't take slots in the 'roaming'-type groups.
That's for the keep, town, frontier builders. The ones who build the fundamental and/or essential pieces to expansion and growth, like repairing doors and walls, planning keeps and towns, setting up shops to supply goods, etc. This is, of course, all guesswork right now...but that's one aspect of crafting and how I imagined it, in part. These would be the highest leveled, dedicated "expansion" crafters, pushing out the best, most-reliable goods for players and towns/fortifications to build. These would be pretty weak fighters/healers, etc.
Now, there could also be hybrid crafter/fighter slots. We always talk about healer/dps, tank/dps, etc, but why not crafter/healer, or crafter/dps, like an engineer-type class who would be able to not only damage, set traps, funnels, destroy bridges, fight in general, but also repair better/faster than the non crafters or 1st level crafters but not as well as the highest crafters? Or the crafter/healer could be the only class that creates battlefield heal fonts based on its knowledge of flora or has special aoe's or triggers special buffs or regeneration depending on their particular skill set and where the group is in the world.
Gank groups might not want them, but perhaps another type of group would grow up around them.
So, there is a lot of possibility, but it DOES come with some pitfalls. If crafting is essential to success in the frontier areas, every realm is going to need a good amount of them. It could be a bigger cliff than the Healer or Speed Class necessity in DAoC. Pugs without them were free RPS. If a realm lacks a good quantity of builders, it could really hamper the entire game for them.
Novice Member
Joined: 3/04/09
Meddyck! I remember you over on IGN and Alb/Percival!
anyway.. I'm curious to see how this plays out.. I loved Crafting/Housing and running Rams and Trebs, heck I had Lifter 3!.. combine all that into a Crafting class and it could be a blast.. I know I'll be trying it..
Novice Member
Joined: 11/16/06
I think it would be funny to organize an all crafter night or something...
Apprentice Member
Joined: 5/26/04
When I think of a crafter class I always think of EvE. EvE has sooo many different flavors of crafting. People that mine, haul, convert minerals to metal and finally building all manner of items.
All of the crafting ships had very little defenses but there were some ships that you could outfit with escape tools so you wouldn't be a an easy kill all the time. Hopefully in Cu they add the ability to get some of these defense abilities. Things like Purge CC, Speed Burst, SpeedWarp (structure that snares all around it). As a side note a lot of the abilities I mentioned are in DaoC on the Armor. For example Winged Helmet in DaoC has a Speed Burst ability attached to it. Imagine in DaoC if you didn't really have to worry about offensive stats as much and just got gear based upon the abilities and proc/reactives on it.
I healed Mistwraith and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt!
Novice Member
Joined: 2/20/13
Originally posted by meddyck
A couple thoughts:
-I think you might be focusing a bit too much on how DAoC worked. I know MJ wants to recreate the "magic" that was DAoC, but I doubt he wants to recreate the 8-man/Stealth War/Zerg paradigm that DAoC became. By the end, no one even cared about taking keeps or relics... it was all about finding another group to fight. (Recall the server where the Mids actually RETURNED relics just to get some enemies out into the field!)
I think he wants to create a completely new type of RvR and his vision includes the crafter class as an important part. I think he wants to make sieges, keep takes and building construction a central theme in RvR... at least that's what I get from what I've read and heard from MJ.
-Who knows what the "Crafter" will be capable of doing? If he can lay down a bad ass AoE trap in a fight, I think that would probably be a good group class. Also, I believe the class might be capable of handling some combat, as well.
Emeryc Eightdrakes - Ranger of DragonMyst Keep - Percival
Advanced Member
Joined: 1/18/08
Originally posted by Tumblebutz
8 mans or stealthers aren't the only groups in an RvR game. Countless times in DAOC my guild would make a guild group or pick up group and go roam around the frontiers. If there wasn't much open field action, then we would grab some rams and open up a tower or keep and either take it or farm enemies who came to defend.
Suppose in CU only crafters can build rams or siege towers. Then that means we are forced to take a crafter in our group (or along side us with his bard bot for speed) and we have one less caster, healer, tank, archer, etc. This leaves us vulnerable to other open field groups who do not have a crafter and makes us less capable of successfully taking or farming the structure we attack.
Now it could be that other classes will be able to deploy rams and towers and/or that the crafter class will also be able to build turrets like an engineer in WAR, GW 2, etc. In either of those cases, there is not much problem. But if not, then I'd rather see crafting work in the more traditional manner as an additional thing any class can train.
Camelot Unchained Backer
Apprentice Member
Joined: 6/27/08
While I think the crafter class is a excellent, my belief (and this is in general to every crafter system I have seen) is that we haven't yet seen a true crafting system and from what MJ has said, they will have more of an "engineer" system, now before you go all WHAT on me!
A proper crafting system allows users to create content, I'm yet to see any developer do this correctly, what do I mean by correctly ?
A crafting system should provide the tools to allow users to create objects in context to the game environment, it requires a cut down modelling tool or system that allows users to create in game items from resources, be it hammering a ingot to a shape or pulling sliders on existing parts (crafting skill and user skill should be the key to quality of items), this can be based on pure design and creation or distinct variance control over objects from scale/shape/texture/skins/decals/makers markings etc...
In the case of CU I think mark knows what he's doing, the "crafter class" will be a backbone to each faction, and will provide the items required on the battle field in a support and supply role, but beyond that I don't think the crafting side of the class will have much mileage, once their are 1000+ crafters.
Novice Member
Joined: 3/05/13
Here's another bit of the document i've been working up that describes how I hope crafters are incorporated into CU:
In the system I would like to see the way classes would be incorporated is that your class would determine which skill lines you may select, how far you may progress in each skill line, and how much each skill in a given skill line would cost (in terms of class points). I envision leveling in a class provides some number of class points per class level. Both of these concepts would need to be balanced after being fully fleshed out, but for the purpose of this description assume that it will be cheaper for a melee based class to buy skills in hand-to-hand combat than any other class that has access to those skills, and that they would be unrestricted in the depth into that line to train (it's primary to their class). On the other hand, any non-crafting class would be restricted from advancing beyond the journeyman level skills in a crafting skill line, and it might cost them twice (or whatever multiplier) as many class points to train each skill as it would for a crafting class in the level(s) in which they can train. In my description I will assume there is only one crafting/building class per realm (at least at launch) and the difference between the two will only be determined by the choice of skill lines the player selects for that character. Furthermore, I assume that some, if not nearly all, skill lines are open to any class at the journeyman level, thus a crafter would have access to the same journeyman level melee skills as a melee class, but at a higher cost, just as the melee class would have access to the journeyman level crafting skills (some things I have read make this assumption a bit dubious).
Skills would be clustered into groups called skill lines. Each skill line would have various specific skills in one of the three tiers: journeyman, master, artisan. Each line would be primary, secondary, or tertiary for a given class, with some lines not available at all. Primary skill lines would be open at the artisan level and have the least cost at the journeyman and master levels. Secondary lines would be open to the master level and be more expensive than primary skills. Tertiary lines would be any line available that is not primary or secondary, would only be open to the journeyman level, and would be more expensive to train than secondary skills in the journeyman level. Personally, I would not have a single track which must be purchased one-by-one to get to a specific skill (as in WAR's mastery skills). Instead, I would require a minimum number of journeyman skills to be trained in a line before the character can train any master skills. The master skills may have specific prerequisites in the journeyman level, but not all journeyman skills would have to be trained to learn the first master skill. Similarly, specific artisan skills could have prerequisites in the master level, but only some minimum number of master skills would have to be learned (not all, unless they were pre-requisites) before the first artisan skill would be available. Characters would use class points gained as they level their class to train each skill. Master level skills would cost more class points than journeyman, and artisan skills would cost more than master skills. I will not attempt to generate a full list of skills, or even skill lines, as that is beyond the scope of this thread. I provide the list below as a way of illustrating how I use the terms journeyman, master and artisan as mentioned in Mark Jacobs' founding principle on crafting. Several skills have been intentionally placed in the journeyman level such that any class would have access to them.
Artisan skills would have the option of adding class points after initially buying them. Doing so would have the effect of increasing the likelihood of success (and/or critical success) by some amount. This could be done a number of times determined by balance testing (since one character might decide to put all their class points into a specific skill to ensure a critical success on every use).
As far as class levels are concerned, I would have no hard level cap in the game, but the only benefit of levels above a certain point (say maybe level 40 or 50) would be increased class points. Mind you, I would make every level require between 150% and 200% of the experience points needed to reach the previous level, so at some point one more level might take thousands of hours of game play to achieve. But, imagine the bragging rights of being the highest level character on your server! The thing with this is that since you receive the same benefit for each level gained beyond the soft cap (in terms of class points) it becomes a balancing factor across both realms and between casual and hard-core players. Since a level 50 character would not be significantly weaker than a level 55, but the 55 would be able to claim superiority, and have some actual benefit for all the time spent playing.
The first builders/crafters skill line that I propose involves animal husbandry (grants pets). The journeyman level skills would allow the raising of livestock (for food or hides) and the most basic pack animal. The line might also include riding skill at this level, if that is not a universal thing. The master level would include larger pack animals, defensive combat pets, and first level speed mounts. The artisan level would hold the second speed mounts, offensive combat pets, and the largest pack animals. This line would have to be coupled (possibly with another player) with another line that is used to construct carts and wagons if those were to be implemented (I expect vehicles to be a stretch goal at best).
The second skill line on my wish list would be siege weapon use/construction. Here the journeyman level skills would include the operation of siege weapons and possibly the construction of projectiles for ranged siege engines. The master level would include assembly and disassembly (why shouldn't siege engines be reusable? although disassembly might be artisan level) of siege engines, construction of the parts that make the basic level of engines (think rams, ballistae, boiling oil cauldrons, etc.), and sapping (wall undermining). The artisan level would be where you get construction of the most powerful engines (trebuchets, AoE catapults, iron capped rams with protective coverings, siege towers, etc.), tunneling for going under walls (not collapsing them), and the construction of specialized projectiles (Greek fire, exploding barrels, cable laying ballista bolts for climbing over walls, etc.).
The third skill line that would be primary (meaning no other class can train the artisan (and possibly master) skills) to crafters/builders would be the speed buff skill line. I already included ridable pets in the animal husbandry line which would offer speed one and speed two which the crafter could sell to other players. Those would be enhanced by the speed buff provided by roads (which would have an effect dependent on the level of the road from one to three) offering a maximum speed level of five. I would put speed one as a buff in the journeyman level, speed two as the master skill, and speed three to five (or six, seven, whatever) as artisan skills.
The final skill line I will include for crafters and builders is the one that allows a character to use or make snares and traps. At the journeyman level would be the placement of crafted snares, detection of snares/traps, and a skill to free oneself (and others) from snares (which would have a cast time, so as not to totally negate the snare). Master level skills would include crafting of pre-set snares/traps, use of on-the-fly snares (placed while moving, or possibly ranged in nature), placing of traps (traps cause damage, whereas snares affect movement), and disarming of snares (prior to being set-off). Artisan skills would include placement of AoE snares/traps, use of on-the-fly traps, disarming traps, and construction of deadly traps. Snares and traps, when placed successfully, would be invisible to enemy players and last either for very long durations, or permanently until sprung or disarmed. They could be placed on the ground or on walls (and may have an effect specific to siege equipment). Friendly players would see a red polygon around the area snared/trapped, but would not be immune to the effect of the snare/trap. Therefore, placement of these items should be done with care. When a player successfully disarms a snare or trap, they would receive the item in their inventory to use (assuming they have that ability) or trade.
I suggest the above skill lines for crafters/builders so that they will provide some other utility in RvR beyond that provided before and after combat through construction and crafting. Keep in mind that no one character would ever be able to train every skill available to their class. If they chose to concentrate on the crafting line, they might forego any RvR related skill to save class points to train another armor type (metal, hide, or cloth) rather than having the ability to make snares and traps, siege equipment, or combat pets.
Elite Member
Joined: 8/13/09
"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli
i dont see how non-combatant classes can fit in a game where all you will be doing is pvp pvp pvp pvp.
Unless the game doesnt fully focus on pvp like we have been told so many times.
Novice Member
Joined: 2/20/13
I personally feel that the 'crafter' class will be much like the worker in the Civilization series; the class unit literally makes an empire thrive through its road systems, fortifications, and commerce buildings. In ancient or modern warfare, soldiers have a basic understand of how to reinforce a keep door and provide additional support to a wall; however, they do not possess the true ability to full rebuild, repair, or remodel existing architecture because they lack the experience and education.
The same goes for the blacksmith soldier - in all likelihood, this soldier would either excel at blacksmithing or at being a soldier, but not at both - it's far more probable that the individual would specialize into something.
Novice Member
Joined: 2/16/13
I think having a dedicated crafter class allows for more gameplay dynamics for sure. Having something real to protect on the battlefield (crafters) could add a whole different feel to RvR, and the possibilities they bring to seige warfare wouldn't be as dynamic and meaningful if every crafter was also a fighter. Imo.
It will also help with subs. Lots of people not as into direct PvP might play just because of this class. While I know CSE isn't aiming at a huge player base, they don't want it TOO small.


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Home > apparel > Richard Kern x Altamont
We've always respected Richard Kern for being a rare photographer who can walk the fine line between pornography and art as well as a guy so transparent about his process. If you're not familiar, catch up with his NSFW series "Shot by Kern" for Vice and then pick up some of these SFW pieces from Altamont. Full looks after the jump.
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March 29, 2005
Box Score
COLLEGE STATION - Andrew Baldwin's solo home run to lead off the bottom of the seventh inning was the difference as No. 16-ranked Texas A&M held off Lamar for a 7-6 win Tuesday night in non-conference action at C.E. "Pat" Olsen Field.
Lamar dropped to 19-11 on the season and Texas A&M improved to 20-9. The Cardinals return home to host Nicholls State in a Southland Conference series this weekend. The Cardinals and Colonels begin the three-game set Friday with a 7 p.m. game at Vincent-Beck Stadium. The first 500 fans through the turnstiles will receive a free sports bottle courtesy of game sponsor Academy Sports and Outdoors.
Trailing 6-4, the Cardinals tied the game with a pair of runs in the top of the seventh inning. Adrian Cantu, who was 3-for-5 with three runs scored, hit a solo home run to right center field with one out, which was his sixth of the season and second in as many games. Collin Delome was hit by a pitch from reliever Kyle Nicholson with two outs. Jeremy Gray drove in DeLome with the tying run with a double to right center field.
Baldwin broke the tie with lead-off solo home run to deep left field in the home half of the seventh inning on the first pitch from reliever Trey Swor to put the Aggies up 7-6.
The Cardinals threatened in the top of the ninth inning. Michael Ambort, who was 4-for-5, singled to center field with one out. DeLome, who was 2-for-3 with a run scored, followed with a single through the left side to put runners on first and second. Jeremy Gray, who was 1-for-5 with two RBI, hit into a game-ending double play.
Lamar used a two-out rally in the top of the first inning to score the game's first run. Cantu started the rally with a single through the right side of the infield. Ambort followed with a single in almost the exact same location. DeLome drove in Cantu with a single to center field.
Texas A&M added another run in the second inning. John Infante led off the inning with a single to right field, but was taken out by a fielder's choice from Lee Harughty. Will Carpenter walked and Travis Bartek drove in Harughty with a single to center field to make the score 4-1.
The Cardinals engineered another two-out rally in the top of the third inning. Ambort doubled down the right field line. He scored on a two-base wild pitch from starter Austin Creps when nobody covered home plate to cut the Aggies lead to 4-2.
Lamar tied the game with a pair of runs in the top of the fifth inning. Colt Crawford led off the inning with a single to right center. Cantu followed with a single through the right side and Ambort drove in Crawford with a single to right field.
DeLome reached on a fielder's choice and Cantu was safe at third base on an error by the Aggie third baseman, which loaded the bases. Gray drove in Cantu with a fielder's choice that tied the game at 4-4. Ebarb grounded into a 3-6-3 double play to end the inning.
Texas A&M struck for a pair of runs in the bottom of the sixth inning to reclaim the lead at 6-4. Carpenter led off the inning with a walk and scored on Dalton's triple to right center field. Dalton scored on a wild pitch from reliever Swor with two outs.
Swor (0-1) took the loss for the Cardinals, allowing three runs on three hits with two strikeouts in three innings pitched. Brian Shallock, who transferred to Lamar from Texas A&M, started and allowed four runs on four hits in one and one-third innings pitched.
Kyle Nicholson (2-0) picked up the win in relief for the Aggies, allowing two runs on two hits with two strikeouts in three innings pitched. Robert Ray pitched the final two innings, allowing no runs on three hits, to earn his first save of the season. Creps allowed four runs, three earned, on nine hits in four innings pitched.


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