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Pontifex legibus solutus?
Joseph A. Komonchak April 1, 2013 - 3:11pm
Conservatives and traditionalists need not be the only ones to raise questions about some of Pope Francis's liturgical innovations, whether it was his including women and Muslims among those whose feet he washed or in the reduction of the readings for the Easter Vigil. But shouldn't we all be concerned when they are justified by the idea that, after all, the pope is the supreme law-giver and so is not bound by Church law?
There is an old Latin legal term for this: princeps legibus solutus, which Blacks legal dictionary translates as: Released from the laws; not bound by the laws. An expression applied in the Roman civil law to the emperor. As the example given shows, it is a very dangerous principle to allow into ecclesiology. At Vatican II, when no. 22 of Lumen gentium was being discussed, Pope Paul VI proposed introducing into a sentence about the pope's relationship to the college of bishops that in deciding whether to call the bishops to a collegial act a pope was bound to the Lord alone [uni Domino devinctus]. The Doctrinal Commission refused this addition for two reasons: (1) its intent was already assured by statements about the pope's freedom and independence, meaning by this that there is no higher human authority which the Roman Pontiff has to observe; and (2) because the formula is over-simplified. For the Roman Pontiff is also bound to observe revelation itself, the basic structure of the Church, the sacraments, the definitions of previous Councils, etc.; all such things cant be counted. Formulas of this sort, using only, have to be treated with the greatest circumspection; otherwise countless difficulties arise.The Commission was pointing to elements that bind the pope in the exercise of his role. A pope is not legibus solutus. Would we not like to propose some conditions on what Pius XII's claim that the pope alone has the right to permit or establish any liturgical practice, to introduce or approve new rites, or to make any changes in them he considers necessary? Can we be content with the view that the Pope is not bound by Church law when he does something we like, but ought to be bound by Church law when he does something we don't like?
So if one wishes to applaud some of the new pope's departures from Church law, before one gets too enthusiastic, it might be well to recall that it was also a pope who not so long ago tempted people to flee to the mountains when he obtruded the Divine Mercy devotion into Eastertide (see Mk 13:14).
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Re: It is the ultimate dream of liberals to restrict papal authority, just as they hope to see restrictions on bishops and the reduction of priests and priesthood to ministry. - Fr. Z's Blog It would be interesting to find out how Fr. Z understands priesthood in the Catholic Church. We (and maybe he) will discover that he is out of synch with this popes understanding of priesthood as he has been teaching us by his words and actions these past few weeks.It seems to me that Fr. Z should be on the alert about his lifestyle and the fact that he appears to be his accountable to no one but himself and his blog readership. It may not be so acceptable in the upcoming change of leadership in the Vatican.
in what sense is he not an absolute monarch?Simple: he has no power because he has no army. He cannot force us to do what we don't want to do, nor to not do what we want to do. We can ignore his statements, as we have been ignoring HV, and nothing bad will happen to us. He only has as much authority as we are willing to grant him.If he shared his authority more, people like me would be more willing to comply, so he might in reality increase his power by apparently diminishing it by sharing it.
Fr. Joe,Excellent post - and your last comment (4/3/2013 - 4:21 pm) should be noted by readers as the real question of substance raised here.As you know, Joe, the question of how to handle a pope who dissents from an essential and defined teaching on faith and morals is one raised (and variously answered) by many of the modern theologians such as M. Cano and R. Bellarmine. But their answers don't really solve the problem, in my opinion. You extend this quesition here to include also how to handle a pope who acts contrary to universal law in matters of discipline and governance as well. It's a question that has been urgent at different historical times in the Church, especially during the Conciliarist debates in the 15th century.Looking at historical examples, it seems that popes who - wittingly or not - acted or taught contrary to (or as if they were above) the law were only handled posthumously. By "handled" I mean juridically and by "law" I mean established, promulgated enunciations in essential matters of faith, morals, discipline, and government. To mention one well-known example: Pope Honorius and the monothelite issue.All that said, I believe that a pope is *not* above the law and it seems that the pope *cannot* be above the law. And yet, to enforce papal violations of the law, there has to be some structure or body firmly in place that can take juridical action (judge, impose penalties, etc.) in such cases. And there doesn't appear to be an explicit structure like this in the Church yet - save the juridical acts of popes and councils executed after the death of the pope in question.I think this conundrum is only intensified by the fact that Lumen Gentium (a. 22) affirms the teaching of Vatican I (Pastor Aeternus) on the pope being subject of supreme jurisdiction and by adding that the college of bishops "in union with their head the roman pontiff and *never without* this head" is also the subject of supreme and full power over the universal church." This seems to say that the college can take universal juridical action, but never without the pope. Would it be possible for the college to take, not universal, but particular juridical action against a pope (like that executed by a local council or synod)?I'm very grateful that you started this discussion here as it's something I've been puzzling about for a good while now. It seems like it's a double-bind or a catch-22, as long as the pope in question is still alive.Perhaps what would have to happen regarding a pope acting flagrantly above the law would be to have bishops formally confront that pope (not just privately, but - of course - they should confront him privately at first and if that fails, then publically and formally) with charges and a formal request to make amends or step down. I'm not sure that's the right thing to do - I can foresee all sorts of mayhem ensuing if this kind of solution were not very carefully circumscribed and regulated. But is that a viable option?In any event, it doesn't seem like we're in such a situation with Francis (though I appreciate your comments on JPII and Divine Mercy Sunday - other papal acts can be adduced as well). Still, it certainly is an urgent question for the Orthodox-Catholic dialogue. What topic(s) are you all currently working on this cycle?Thanks again!- Mike
I wonder: How many readers heard the full slate of readings for the Easter Vigil? My parish did five. And: The Congregation for Divine Worship told Cardinal O'Malley in '05 that a bishop could decide to include women in the washing of the feet, "for pastoral reasons." In addition, the USCCB acknowledges that it's common practice for women to be included in that ritual.Does the 1988 opinion of the Congregation for Divine Worship amount to church law?
I remember as an alter server way back in the 1970s only doing between 4-5 readings at the Easter Vigil. Women being included in the foot washing is pretty standard practice in pretty much any church I've attended, though I concede I've never been to a papal Mass. Our parish has over the years has included families, young adults, teenagers, elderly, male and female. I have always assumed to signify that all are included in the Church and the Church is servant to all.
Let me hasten to point out that I am less interested in whether women or Muslims ought to be included in the foot-washing than in the principle I've heard stated more than once that places the pope above the law. I think it's a very dangerous notion.
And to your point, what about MPs such as Summorum Pontificum that have created more disuntiy than unity (appears to be closer to a hermeneutic of rupture than of continuity?). A MP that created two forms of the one rite for the first (?) time in our experience and over the objections of almost all episcopal conferences.
Do I detect some fear that Pope Francis might change the trajectory of the previous two popes? I couldn't agree more that, considering the colorful history of the papacy, having the pope unaccountable to the human institution is dangerous. However, although Pope Francis has done much to change the "tone" in the Vatican, and perhaps has bent tradition, I have read of nothing he has done that is a violation of Church law.Perhaps Mr. Komonchak needs to relax and have faith that our new Pope is at least as interested in the welfare of the Church as Mr. K. is.
I'm confused. Is doing something not allowed by the liturgical rubrics properly called a breach of church *law*? Is there some notion of felonies vs. misdemeanors? Also, a different interpretation of Pope Francis's actions, to the extent that they violated a rule, is that he wants to extend a certain flexibility to everyone - far from claiming exclusive above-the-law status for the pope. (But the above-the-law idea has been oft mentioned, sometimes uncritically.)
Ms. Hayes:Mr. Komonchak also hopes what you hope. No, there's no hidden agenda here. I welcome a new "tone," but hope for much more.I'm a member of the North American Orthodox-Catholic Dialogue and we've recently spent a few years discussing papal primacy, so I'm acutely aware of the difficulties that an unfettered papacy represents for an eventual reunion. The Orthodox regularly pose the question: In what way is the pope not an absolute monarch, legibus solutus? What would you say in reply?
At times like this I think about my old copy (Muhlenberg Press, 1960) of Luther's Letter to the Nobility of the German Nation. It has the most disturbingly official footnote on Luther's charge that "if the pope were so scandalously bad as to lead crowds of souls to the devil, still he could not be deposed." The footnote quotes from the canons: "A Pontifex indubitatus cannot lawfully be deposed or judged either by a council or by the whole world, even if he is so scandalous as to lead people with him by crowds into the possession of hell." In Luther's words, "Be astonished, O heaven; shudder, O earth! Behold, O Christians, what Rome is!" On the other hand, I have a friend here in the Diocese of Charleston who likes to conclude these discussions by quoting a different canon from the old 1917 code--in the hearing of confessions the "honor of God" must be balanced against "the welfare of souls." Mercy accompanies justice inseparably, and the care of souls is why we're all here in church. While I agree with Fr. Komonchak that surely we have come far beyond that papacy confronting Luther, surely there must be some room for discretion as the welfare of souls may call for it? For a pope, as for any ordained minister?A different note, though. I think the presence of Muslims at the Mass on Thursday was really wonderful. But, in a prison, under what circumstances did they attend? I assume it was their free choice, but I haven't seen it confirmed by any reports and I've been curious. As much as it cheers me to see the Holy Father offer this sign of respect and humble service, I found myself wondering why Muslims were at the Mass of the Lord's Supper in the first place. They oughtn't to be excluded, but neither should they have been coerced or compelled. Has anybody seen reporting on that question?
I accept that shortening the Genesis reading at the Easter Vigil is not at all on the same par as saying that the Missale of 1962 was not abrogated by Paul VI. (And I have strong doubts about the latter claim.) That said, I don't think there is any provision in liturgical law that allows for shortening the Genesis reading at the Easter Vigil. (Limiting the readings before the Gospel to five is allowed.) But it's the slippery slope that concerns me. With Father Komonchak, I find invoking the principle, as some have done, worrying, no matter who is the particular pope.
Before one ever gets to the issue of a Pope's authority with respect to canon law, one must first address the issue of the weight of canon law. The Pope is not a law unto himself, but neither is canon law a law unto itself.Canon law is not supreme. It is not doctrine, it is not dogma, it is not sacramental. Canon law is not the master, but the servant. It is at the service of the Church. The Pope could repeal the entirety of the code of canon law tomorrow and in doing so, he would not be acting improperly. It would be completely within his authority to do so.On the other hand, the Pope would have absolutely no authority whatsoever to decree that the Creed was abolished, that instead of a Trinity, there was only a Duality, or that the Eucharist is merely a symbol after all.The Pope is not above doctrine, he is not above truth. But canon law is neither even if in some places it quotes from and cites doctrinal matters. It is merely a set of useful rules that might be set aside by the Pope - he is Peter - when he deems it appropriate.
So if one wishes to applaud some of the new Popes departures from Church law
Facts not in evidence, Fr. K. I have not gone into the weeds on these matters, however, it seems to me that whether it is the foot washing or the reduction of readings, neither of these were outside of the scope of the authority of any Bishop, including the Bishop of Rome to modify. Indeed, it had already been done countless times by many bishops, including the Pope when he was bishop in Argentina.So, he has not departed from Church law; he has modified certain practices and customs as per the authority given in the law itself to Bishops. In the modification of the foot washing ceremony, he is showing by way of public example, how the Church needs to interpret its mission as service not only to those "inside" but to the wider world. The custom of celebrating in the cathedral was changed to the prison for obvious symbolic reasons. Ditto for the Muslim woman.There are many forms of symbolism that the ceremony takes. In some parishes, the pastor washes the feet of the ministers in the church to illustrate the idea of service.As for the reduction of readings, I am not a fan of that move, but, here again, he is within the scope of his authority.Besides, in law there is the principle of epikeia that permits a law as not applying in a particular case because of circumstances unforeseen by the lawmaker.This gets into the area of interpretation of legislative texts and I am sure some of the lawyers on board may have some perspectives on that question.
Fr. Komonchak's comments and Bill De Haas's, seem fair and prudent to me. And wouldn't it be a good moment to begin to think about setting some limits on governance by Papal proclamation while we have a Pope who might accept them?
John Page - had the wonderful privilege of reading the first reading from Genesis at the Easter Vigil.....pastor let me choose short or long version; and, of course, chose the long version as did the second reader.We only had five lessons - excuse was 15 baptisms plus 20 confirmations plus bilingual at times, etc with large number of young families in attendance.
I agree with the uneasiness. I wish Pope Francis explained the meaning of his actions. We are left to guess what he has in mind, with people advancing that he "seems to" want to do this or that. Does he think that he's above the rules? Does he have a particularly Jesuistical interpretation of the foot washing rules that makes his actions conform to the rules? Does he support pastoral flexibility and bending the rules, within some undefined scope? Is it a trial balloon before changing the rules? We don't know.George D: the foot washing thread explains that the term "viri" is present in the texts. In the US the bishops decided to make an exception and allow women. But Francis is the pope, not a bishop in the US. I would say that he does appear to be going against the letter of the rule. In the foot washing thread Rita wrote: "Pope Francis simply seems to be continuing to do what he did as Archbishop of Buenos Aires". But it's different now. When he was archbishop of Buenos Aires, he had a certain latitude to bend or break the rules as he judged appropriate: one knew that if he had gone too far off, something would have happened to bring him back within acceptable norms. Now that he is pope, the mechanism is not clear. Ideally, if things were working well, he ought to be much more scrupulous than before in following church rules. There's a saying in French: "L'exactitude est la politesse des rois" - "punctuality is the politeness of kings". That's because, if kings show up late, since they have absolute power they will suffer no consequences from their lack of punctuality. Well - I read somewhere that pope Francis has a habit of being late. It's as though he didn't realize that his new role is giving him new constraints. He's behaving as though he were still a bishop and not a pope. Charming, but a little bit destabilizing. We are left a little bit uneasy.I do get a certain enjoyment out of that very unease, though. Maybe it's good for us.
And wouldnt it be a good moment to begin to think about setting some limits on governance by Papal proclamation while we have a Pope who might accept them?
Absolutely! However, I think that Pope Benedict's MP, Summorum Pontificum, was a clarification of that very point. Benedict argues that previous liturgies were never abrograted when reforms from Rome occurred. Instead, the previous practice was allowed to continue so as not to disrupt local communities. Gradually, uniformity of practice emerged. In this, I think that he is correct. Rome did not, or should not impose its will on the universal church. For Rome, sure; for the universal church - not so fast.Arguably, it was the pontificate of Paul VI that was too rushed and autocratic in its implementation of necessary liturgical reform.And I don't think diversity frustrates unity. As PJP II once said, uniformity is not unity.
It seems to me that you can argue either side on this issue because Lumen Gentium is self-contradictory on the matter. Here is from Ch 3, sect. 22:" pope's power of primacy over all, both pastors and faithful, remains whole and intact. In virtue of his office, that is as Vicar of Christ and pastor of the whole Church, the Roman Pontiff has full, supreme and universal power over the Church. And he is always free to exercise this power. The order of bishops, which succeeds to the college of apostles and gives this apostolic body continued existence, is also the subject of supreme and full power over the universal Church, provided we understand this body together with its head the Roman Pontiff and never without this head.(27*)"To say that the Pope has 'full, supreme and universal power" over the Church PERIOD couldn't be a stronger affirmation of his absolute power. He *always* has power over *everything*. All that the follo2int sentences add is that when the bishops agree with the pope they participate in his absolute power. You can argue that these words don't intend what they apparently say. But unless there is ambiguity about the words "always" and "universal" there is no way of getting out of the independence of the Pope's power apart from the bishops, though the bishops' power is not independent of the Pope's.You can also say that in other places "the Church" says otherwise, that the Bishop of Rome is not an absolute ruler. But all this does is add another horn to the dilemma.
Bender: You wrote: "The Pope could repeal the entirety of the code of canon law tomorrow and in doing so, he would not be acting improperly. It would be completely within his authority to do so."The Code of Canon Law is not simply a set of rules. It also contains statements about the constitution of the Church, about the basic rights and duties of Christians, about procedures for justice, and a whole bunch of other things. The Pope cannot simply repeal all this. For example, do you think it's in the power of the Pope to repeal canons 208-223, which set out the rights and obligations of Christians?
No question that Joe K has a point. I like what George D wrote alluding to Summorum Pontificum: " Rome did not, or should not impose its will on the universal church. For Rome, sure; for the universal church not so fast." So the Divine Mercy feast can go for Rome, with imput from the Romans, but not for the Universal church. What Francis did was in the spirit of charity and we all know that "Charity covers a multitude of sins."Perhaps we should not get too worked up about these differences and concentrate of 1Cor: 13. After all what was Jesus doing talking to the Samaritan Woman and didn't Paul and Peter differ on rules on food? The four Evangelists tell the story of Jesus from very different viewpoints.There used to be a time when many thought that if a Saint said it it must be true. Now we admit that the most famous, Augustine, made some serious mistakes. http://www.thirdmill.org/files/english/theology/72860~7_7_2003_3-19-18_P...
With all due respect, I really can't understand why these particular actions would make anyone think Pope Francis may be at risk of overstepping his authority and think himself superior to church law(!). Still, I'm old enough to remember similar alarms being sounded when Pope John XXIII began making what now look like mild ecumenical gestures compared to the celebrated acts of his successors, e.g., John Paul II. I hadn't thought any pope committed to dogmatic orthodoxy could ever shake things up as John did way back then. Now, I'm thinking it is possible after all.
It is an interesting idea that the Bishop of Rome is and ought to be more constrained than other bishops, although we cannot say exactly by what. Noblesse oblige? Sensus fidelium? Canon law? The promptings of the Spirit? If nothing is agreed upon and well established, then does anything truly constrain him but his own judgment and goodwill?Well, probably not laws. The original princeps, the Roman emperor, was legibus solutus, but he was still constrained by the need to keep the population fed and minimally content, to collect taxes, to fend off rivals, and to guard his borders. Modern popes don't face exactly those problems, but there is still some risk of schism and the increasing danger of rebellion or irrelevance either in changing too much or too little.The Church and the world are so diverse and so easily offended today, that a pope is unlikely to please anyone all of the time. Already Francis is being examined on all sides and criticized not for decisions of substance, for he has made none, but for gestures and symbols.Poor man.
What grounds canon law? Scripture? Tradition? The exigencies of ruling? Surely it isn't self-justifying. Who makes it? Certainly not the bishops plus pope in Council, not usually, at any rate. (Who are these people who keep telling us what to do and not to do? Where do the canon law legislators get their authority? Does the Pope have to sign all a "bill" for it to constitute a law?
A correction, though I think we are way beyond this point.There is a shorter form of the Genesis reading, as Bill deHaas has pointed out. (After several decades of attending the Vigil, I've never heard it.) And, in case of necessity, there can be as few as two readings before the reading from Romans and the Gospel.But I am still concerned about the principle. I stand with Claire. Symbols and gestures are not incidentals left up to the pope of the day. Change them, fine, but with some order and explanation.
And George D - your comment that Benedict supported his SP by saying that earlier liturgies were never abrogated. This is a point of contention and most liturgy experts, etc. would say that Benedict *invented* something here - Paul VI in 1969 clearly abrogated the 1962 missal and liturgy....as did most other popes after missal reforms (the council of Trent laid out a couple of liturgical changes but left it to the pope/curia to actually do this - two popes later and with the formation of the Congregation of Rites, we eventually got what we now label the Tridentine Rite - all other rites *with some local exceptions* were abrogated.Benedict's SP violated a number of patterns - after almost 40 years of a reformed liturgy, he tried to bring back and justify an abrogated mass - talk about unintended consequences. Moreover, and following what you say George D about how an implementation should be regional/local/etc. Benedict's SP was made over the vocal oppostiion of almost all episcopal conferences. So, you cite his SP as an example but, would argue, that SP is the opposite of what you cite.
If this whole discussion is premised on the claim that liturgical law was violated by washing women's feet, it shows a misunderstanding of the case.This is a willful misunderstanding on the part of those who wish to hold to a male-only foot washing. They wish it to be understood to be a law. Men-only. That's what they see as the law. They are not eager to see the pope as a law-breaker. Therefore, they say the pope is above the law and can do as he pleases.A dangerous principle indeed.But this isn't the case in the foot washing. There is nothing intrinsically "unwashable" about women't feet. The whole argument rests upon the reading of a single word, "viri" to mean exclusive of women. Nonsense. It doesn't say and never said women's feet can't be washed. It says nothing whatsoever about women's feet. The pastoral interpretation of that rubric is open. And it has indeed been interpreted variously. Above the law, my - uh - foot. The pope is the bishop of Rome, and is interpreting this rubric according to pastoral discretion. A much better interpretation for pastoral use, too, I might add. Cardinal Sean O'Malley asked Rome about this, and they said he is able to interpret this issue according to pastoral need. The bishop of Rome is not "breaking the law" by doing likewise.
If Francis is the bishop of Rome and the vicar of Peter (not the vicar of Christ), tradition suggests there might be some pontifical screw-ups for which Francis/Peter can seek forgiveness.
I am going to disagree with my friends Claire and John here. This is not a case of symbols being changed arbitrarily, willy-nilly, to make us all nervous. The symbolism of washing the feet is being rendered more accessible, and closer to the INTENTION OF THE RITE by including both men and women. To be bound by the letter with no regard for the spirit of the actual ritual in question is to make of liturgy an idolatrous undertaking.
Fr. Komonchak:"But shouldnt we all be concerned when they are justified by the idea that, after all, the pope is the supreme law-giver and so is not bound by Church law."Who has justified the popes actions in that way? Does the person or group have the authority or credentials to make such a justification? I would worry if Pope Francis would justify his actions by saying that HE is not bound by Church law.
" the new Popes departures from Church law " are -- what departures from Church law exactly?The rubrics explicitly provide for using fewer than the full number of readings at the Easter Vigil.It comes down to washing women's feet and that alone, does it not?It's disingenuous to bring up the Pope's "departures from Church law" while "leaving aside" the question of washing women's feet, if that's the sole example of such "departures from Church law." Or are there other examples?
It seems to me that the issue of departing from the rubrics of the liturgy is not a useful case for debating Pontifex legibus solutus.Rubrics are not Canon Law. As Canon 838 says, the liturgy depends solely upon the Apostolic See:Can. 838 1 The ordering and guidance of the sacred liturgy depends solely upon the authority of the Church, namely, that of the Apostolic See and, as provided by law, that of the diocesan Bishop. 2 It is the prerogative of the Apostolic See to regulate the sacred liturgy of the universal Church, to publish liturgical books and review their vernacular translations, and to be watchful that liturgical regulations are everywhere faithfully observed. If a bishop wanted to permit foot washing of women, children and non-Catholics in his diocese, he could apply to Rome for an indult or other permissionHere is an article by Ed Peters pointing out that "[I]t is common knowledge that permissions have been granted to individual bishops to permit women to have their feet washed".http://www.canonlaw.info/a_footfight.htmIn other sources I have read that those permissions go back at least prior to Lent of 2005. Obviously, if the Pope wants to wash feet beyond "viri selecti" he doesn't write to his own Prefect of the CDW asking permission. He does it on his own authority.
Rita: This whole discussion is not premised on the claim that liturgical law was violated by washing womens feet, but on the argument presented by those who think that is the case and find it fine because the pope is the supreme law-giver and so can change it at will.
Rita: I bet that pope Francis agrees with you that replacing "viri" by "homines" is closer to the intention of the rite - that "viri" is a mistake of sorts. He, the pope, can change that word. For the pope, wouldn't that be a better response? Then there is the question of his washing the feet of a young Muslim. The text you linked to in the other thread (http://old.usccb.org/liturgy/q&a/general/feet.shtml ) has a couple of mentions of general charity, but also has several more mentions of mutual charity between Christians or between disciples of Christ (starting with the gospel!). It's even less clear there that by washing the feet of a non-Christian he is accurately conforming to the intention of the rite. If the rite truly is or really ought to be about general charity, then that needs clarification. He's the pope: it seems to me that it would be better if he asked that those rules be updated. I still find that he is acting like a bishop more than like a pope. Don't you agree?
The other complaint from the traditionalist blogs is that Francis bows rather than genuflecting at the consecration. Again, I don't think this is a suitable case for discussing "Pontifex legibus solutus."
John: are you saying that the pope's correct attitude should be: "If I wish to go against some liturgical rubrics, I may do as I please, because I am the pope, but if others wish to do it, they have to ask me first for permission even if they want to do precisely the same thing that I am doing"?
First, would agree with those who have finally realized that arguing about rubrics misses the point. SC laid out liturgical principles (or intentions as Rita state above) and SC laid out that these principles relied upon the presider/community to implement so that our liturgies were full, active, and complete.Claire - would suggest that Rita is trying to indicate that rubrics do not lay out every possible liturgical action, decision, etc. and that when a rubric says *viri*, it doesn't mean that it restricts the mandatum to men only - it could be read in a different way. (another example in the 1980s was restricting altar servers to male only - eventually, CDW and canon law stipulated that this was a misreading (limitation) of the original rubric and didn't need an indult. (But, that hasn't stopped the rubrical literalists such as Morlino or Olmsted)Thus, to read rubrics or demand that things such as *viri* be revised to say *homines* is just another example of her comment - it becomes an *idolatrous undertaking*. Ed Peters is a good example of a canon lawyer who interprets based up a black and white reading rather than seeing canon law or even rubrics as *servants* to the pastoral situation. He places canon law (keep in mind that the new canon law took effect in 1983) over more primary church and conciliar documents such as SC. (some canon law experts decry the fact that the 1983 code did a poor job of reflecting the theology, attitude, and approach laid out in the VII council)
Claire, Chapter 9 of the GIRM is "Adaptations Within The Competence Of Bishops And Bishops Conferences" and allows individual bishops and conferences of bishops to adapt some specific items in the Missal to meet the pastoral needs of their people. Most of those adaptations require the recognitio of Rome before they can be implemented. The Mandatum isn't one of he items listed but, as Peters says, it is generally known that some bishops have reuested nd received permission to adapt it in their dioceses.So, yes, I do believe that a bishop who wants to adapt the rubrics to meet the pastoral needs of his diocese has to get permission from Rome. From what I have read, Cardinal O'Malley requested an indult in 2004 to include women in the Mandatum and was told by the CDW that he didn't need an indult and should do as he thought best for his diocese. He included women in 2005, as did Cardinal Bergoglio.John: are you saying that the popes correct attitude should be: If I wish to go against some liturgical rubrics, I may do as I please, because I am the pope I would phrase it as "if I determine that it is in the pastoral interest of the Church for me to adapt the rubrics when I perform a ceremony, i can do that on my own judgement since I am the only one who can authorize any adaptation by anyone" (when the CDW authorizes an adaptation by a bishop, they are acting on behalf of the Pope).
1. This whole business of bowing at the institutional narrative is rather silly. Anyone who watches the pope go down stairs surely realizes he has problems with his knees like many of the elderly (myself included). A knee replacement down the line wouldn't surprise me.2. The rubrics in the Lectionary for Mass gives wide latitude to the choice of readings. I didn't see any violation of these.3. The pope seems to have made a decision about not have papal liturgies lasting too long. I think they pulled this off just fine. And the Sacrament of Initiation was administered with dignity and warmth by the pope.4. The entire Triduum needs a good reworking. It still is a clip and paste from 1955.
Claire, the liturgy is a source of law, and I would be happy if Pope Francis changed viri to homines in order to settle what has been an unedifying and acrimonious dispute. In the same way that Pope John unilaterally deleted the word "perfidius" from the Good Friday prayer for the Jews, the pope could make this change if he simply grasps the nettle. But from the clarification offered by Fr. Lombardi, it sounds as if he doesn't have a problem with an all-male foot washing under other circumstances, so it is doubtful whether he will take the trouble, especially now, when he has only been pope for 3 weeks.Joe, thank you for the clarification. I found the post confusing, not least because "innovations" embraces much more than "law," but now I see that you wish to discuss the mentality or mental steps that some have used to explain the disjuncture between their expectations and the pope's actions. OK.
The other side of this question is whether the code of canon law and/or rubrics are somehow superior to the judgment of persons. Someone above already cited epikeia, which is a denial of law's inviolability. Man was not made for the Sabbath.Rita presents another version of this, the notion that the law may have been formulated incorrectly, using viri instead of homines. The code is not The Law, but a human rendition of the Divine that should not be treated as master of the church celebrating. Our conversation with God, our prayer, is guided by law, but is a greater knowledge of the Law than we can write in books. The code is bound by prayer.The foot washing issue would disappear if we went back to the traditional rite. Before 100 years ago, the antiphons for the foot washing alternated between the Last Supper and the stories of the women washing and anointing the feet of Jesus. Would people really exclude women from the foot washing if they were singing "the woman known as a sinner washed the feet of Jesus"? I suspect Francis has a sense of this side of the ritual, which is the basis for law and rubrics, not the result of them.
Reducing canon law or even rubrics to being *servants* of any pastoral situation weakens both the law and the rubric. Both then become the whim of the interpreter which makes the people dependent on he (or she) who does the interpretation. In the end this removes the liturgy from the people altogether. Fr. K's point is a good one and it was Benedict who carefully explained that a pope is the servant of the tradition not its master. I can understand why the Eastern Orthodox and so many devout Catholics are ill at ease when these kinds of things occur.
Fr. Coleman at America:"Most of my adult life, since Vatican II, at every parish I have either worshipped or celebrated Holy Thursday, the priest and others have washed the feet of men and women, boys, girls and elderly people. I have never in my life given much extra thought to this practice because it struck me that Jesus, of course, washes the feet of all those in need as a sign to us also to do likewise. That conservative and reactionary Catholics seemed aghast that Pope Francis, for the first time for a pope, washed the feet of women on Holy Thursday took me by surprise and stunned me! It literally stunned me in showing how out of touch so many in our church can sometimes be"
I don't know, Joe. You refer to the pope's "departures from church law," not people's perceptions of his alleged departures from church law. I think that's a bit confusing.
Speaking of the Eastern traditions, if the pope, and by extension, a servant of tradition and not its master, that message was lost on some Bishops in this area. I heard from a friend that the Catholic Bishops had asked the Eastern counterparts to not ordain so many married Eastern priests as it was causing some confusion.They apparently complied for the sake of good order (the Eastern rite is smaller here than when I was growing up with a lot of Ukrainian Catholics).Still, the point is that the law is that Eastern churches have the right to retain all of their liturgical and disciplinary traditions including married priests.In practice, the Roman Catholic bishops did not have a problem, not exactly violating their law, but certainly not acting according to its sprit.As I think about the question, yes certainly the law needs to be respected, and if you are acting apart from it, or seeming to, there should be and open and transparent rationale given. I get the symbolism of Pope Francis' action and support it. That is clear. What is less clear is the basis for the departure. The rationale given by Fr. Lombardi was convoluted and not transparent.
If a Pope's rule changing limits itself only to changing rules/laws made by other Popes, I don't think it puts the Pope outside the law, it instead maybe weakens the authority of the Pope to issue rules and laws on his own. It makes papal declarations seem like something more along the lines of an executive order, which can easily change with the next administration.If one doesn't think the Pope should be making the rules by himself, but that they should be collegial decisions, it might not be a bad thing.
"when he obtruded the Divine Mercy devotion into Eastertide"One more note. There were sound liturgical reasons why some people were / are concerned about Divine Mercy Sunday. They are: the Divine Mercy Novena begins on Good Friday, and carries on through the Triduum and up to the Second Sunday. This is a marked departure. The Paschal Trdiduum is the center and high point of the liturgical year and should be the focus of the Three Days. Second, the chief advocate for this devotion (I do not have the document in front of me, but could look it up) claimed that the Second Sunday of Easter is more important than Easter, because of divine mercy. The way of keeping the Easter feast is not bulletproof. Things like this can cause serious confusion those who are enthused with the new devotion. For reasons precisely like this case, the Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy directed that devotions should be drawn up to be always in harmony with the liturgical year, which surpasses them all in importance. I don't know of anyone who "ran to the hills" over this, but if anyone wants to compare Divine Mercy Sunday to the decision not to wear choir dress for the apostolic blessing, I'd say this is apples and oranges. Changing a custom of papal court ceremonial or dress is hardly parallel to setting forth a new religious devotion for the Christian people that is intended in the eyes of its most fervent supporters to overshadow the Triduum.
"I still find that he is acting like a bishop more than like a pope. Dont you agree?"Claire, I failed to reply to this question above. Sorry. It's a tricky question to my mind, because the pope IS a bishop; the two are not alternatives. Does presiding in charity over all the churches mean that the pope ought to bow to expectations that he is a kind of absolute monarch whose every gesture is scrutinized as having consequence for the whole Christian world? Is that what acting "like a pope" means? Well, I'd hope not. Does he have to give up being a bishop in order to be the pope? Ideally, certainly not. And, to the topic of this post, is he a lawgiver in his every example? Of course not. The other popes of my lifetime have not modeled being the Bishop of Rome in a very strong way that has been obvious to me, so I think my frame of reference for what a pope acts like is affected by this lack.
And there are sound liturgical reasons why people are troubled by the pope acting in a way contrary to the rubrics. The suggestion could become that no rubric is ultimately binding because any celebrant can construe a pastoral reason to ignore them. This takes the liturgy of the Church away from the people.Benedict's approach to the liturgy seemed especially humble to me. He openly said that the pope is not the master of tradition but its servant.
Rita, you're right that he's a pope in addition to being a bishop. But he can take decisions that only pertain to the diocese of Rome, or decisions with global impact. It would be nice to at least know which is happening. John H., in situations in which bishops normally ask for an indult, you are saying that for him in his diocese, he does not have ask for it. When that happens, what are the implications for the other bishops? Is his way the new default recommendation? Or is it an option that is now allowed along with other possibilities without necessitating an indult any longer? Or do other bishops still need to ask for an indult in order to be allowed to do the same thing as the pope? It's confusing.Bill de Haas: are you sure that that's how pope Francis sees things? If he sees things differently then your interpretation of his actions might be wrong.
About the Author
Rev. Joseph A. Komonchak, professor emeritus of the School of Theology and Religious Studies at the Catholic University of America, is a retired priest of the Archdiocese of New York.


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subset: commoncrawl


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Release: 11/18/2013
Listen Live for free: Click Here
It's Monday night, and it's time for Lobo Talk! Live from the Chama River Brewing Company from 7-9 p.m. tonight, come our and take advantage of great food specials at Chama River and enjoy two hours of Lobo basketball.
From 7-8 p.m. women's basketball play-by-play voice Joe Behrend will talk women's hoops with head caoch Yvonne Sanchez as her team gets ready to host the Texas Longhorns on Tuesday night at The Pit. Then from 8-9 p.m., Voice of the Lobos Robert Portnoy will sit down and talk about the No. 19 UNM Lobos with head caoch Craig Neal as the team gets ready to head to the Charleston Classic.
You can call in at 866-350-4309 to ask either coach a questions, or tweet Robert Portnoy with your question for Coach Neal at @RobTalksLobos
Come out for a great evening and food and fun at Chama River Brewing Company, located just south of Jefferson, west of frontage road on I-25.


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EarthQuaker Devices AfterneathIt's rare to find a reverb that doesn't attempt to emulate a certain device or space. Many manufacturers are bent on coming up another iteration of a spring tank. Earthquaker, however, has created a new reverb that isn't based on a certain space, but rather on space, the abstract concept.$225.00
EarthQuaker Devices Afterneath Special EditionIt's rare to find a reverb that doesn't attempt to emulate a certain device or space. Many manufacturers are bent on coming up another iteration of a spring tank. Earthquaker, however, has created a new reverb that isn't based on a certain space, but rather on space, the abstract concept.$225.00
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EarthQuaker Devices Bit CommanderThe EarthQuaker Bit Commander is a monophonic analog guitar synthesizer. With controls for Sub, Octave Down, Octave up and Square level the EarthQuaker Bit Commander makes it easy to dial in your tone.$175.00
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The Earthquaker Devices Disaster Transport Delay is an analog voiced delay with 625 ms of delay time, modulation, and nothing but old school tape echo with all the inherent idiosyncrasy of those old devices. This is an anti-modern styled delay - nothing but vintage tone that yo... read more$215.00
Earthquaker Devices Disaster Transport Jr
The Earthquaker Devices Transport Jr is an analog voiced delay that gives you 625 ms of delay time, an all analog dry signal path, and an emulation of tape echo for you vintage enthusiasts. The Transport Jr is a brilliant delay pedal that brings the real vintage echo tones - th... read more$165.00
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Earthquaker Devices Dream CrusherThe Earthquaker Devices Dream Crusher is their take on the classic Fuzz Face tone. Powered by two NOS Mil Spec germanium transistors, the Earthquaker Devices Dream Crusher provides loads of dynamic, touch sensitive fuzz tone.$145.00
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Earthquaker Devices Ghost Echo ReverbThe Earthquaker Devices Ghost Echo Reverb is a completely unique pedal that responds to your pick attack. The Earthquaker Devices Ghost Echo Reverb can go from massive reverb to subtle slapback.$165.00
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The Earthquaker Devices Hoof Fuzz is absolutely pure and simple - in a most excellent way. This does everything from dirty and organic overdrive to absolutely monstrous sustaining big muff madness. This is a germanium/silicon hybrid which is based on the classic green Russian mu... read more$165.00
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The Earthquaker Devices Monarch Overdrive is an FET, all discrete dirt machine that will get you some truly vintage and organic overdrive. The Monarch Overdrive is based on a certain UK hard rock amp's input stage that shares the same color as the Monarch's brilliant design.$155.00
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EarthQuaker Devices Palisades Special Edition ColorwayThe Palisades has written the final chapter in the Tube Screamer codex. It hosts a dizzying array of options, none of which detract from the goal of exhausting the Tube Screamer's potential.$249.95
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The Rainbow Machine from Earthquaker Devices is a polyphonic harmonizing modulation machine. Utilizing a modern digital signal processing and modern oscillation circuitry The Rainbow creates some real time pitch shifting, but not in the way you are probably used to.$225.00
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Earthquaker Devices Terminal FuzzThe Terminal fuzz is a blown out, busted and all around destructive fuzz device modeled after the old JAX fuzz (a re-branded Shin Ei Companion fuzz well loved for its buzzy sound). The Terminal takes this design three steps further by allowing control over the gain, fine tuning of th... read more$165.00
EarthQuaker Devices The DepthsEarthquaker Devices takes you down deep with the Depths Optical Vibe—a lush, phasey, pulsing vibrato with a three dimensional swirling sound. The Depths is optimized to work well with a variety of instruments, pickups, and gain levels.$195.00
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Earthquaker Devices Tone Reaper FuzzThe Earthquaker Devices Tone Reaper Fuzz is based on the classic 3 knob Bender fuzzes. The Earthquaker Devices Tone Reaper Fuzz will get you thin and spitting fuzz and thick and snarling fuzz tones, all in one stompbox.$145.00


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Western leader or local guide?
KE Office Staff - KE Adventure Travel
posted 1st August '10
We have had a fantastic response to last month's email debate, which asked whether you preferred your holiday to have a Western leader (at…
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Letter from Kathmandu - Life in limbo
Trip Leaders - Jo Chaffer
posted 22nd April '10
Namaste and welcome back to life in the far and slightly mystical East! Well, since my last letter from Nepal, I can report that life here has…
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Letter from Kathmandu - Namaste from sunny KTM!
Trip Leaders - Jo Chaffer
posted 21st March '10
My name's Jo and I'm living and working in Nepal's happily chaotic capital city, Kathmandu. Some of you may know me as a leader of KE…
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Alumni Spotlight on Darren Ray
In the Spotlight:
Alumnus Darren Ray
IMAGE: Darren Ray alumni spotlight
Since starting at Salem Community Hospital part-time as a help desk technician, alumnus Darren Ray gained a full-time appointment and was then promoted to application specialist. Ray decided to study at Kent State University at Salem because he could earn a Bachelor's of Science Degree in Computer Technology, stay close to home, save money and gain work experience at the same time.
Ray, who may not appear as a 'techie' to most, has always had an interest in technology. During high school, he had an idea that computers might be where he wanted to spend his time. "I worked with the technology coordinator at Crestview during study halls to get some experience," he said. At the same time, he helped start a computer club, which he now helps oversee.
While attending classes at Kent State Salem, Ray worked at the Salem Computer Center. "Working in the field is just as important as the education," he said. From January 2010 to the spring of 2011, Ray worked in the technology department of Crestview Local Schools.
Ray said he enjoyed his time at Kent State Salem. "I met a lot of people and had a good time," he said. "It got me to where I wanted to be."
Ray recommends anyone who is interested in his field to not only get a degree, but to get work experience, too. "You'll be more marketable to a company," he said.


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On Thursday, December 29, 2011 many residents of Pushmataha, Choctaw and McCurtain Counties were saddened to hear of the death of District Judge Willard Driesel. Driesel, 58, passed away after a lengthy battle with several health issues, including cancer, in Tyler, TX on December 11, 2011. Judge Driesel will be remembered by many as a fair and professional administrator to the courts and to many as a true and loyal friend.
At his request, he was cremated. A memorial service took place on Monday, January 2, 2012 in Broken Bow.
Driesel was know by his associates as one who took his role as judge seriously and tackled court problems head on. He simplified the system and kept the docket moving. He also was known for his open-door policy, taking time to listen to people and using that information to make better informed decisions and actions.
"It was his desire to see the county change and to help people who were in the bond of drug addiction," said Vicki Justus, who had worked for three judges during her 25 years as the McCurtain County Court Clerk. "He had a heart for helping people who wanted help, a real heart for the community. He was very compassionate, a man of integrity. I cannot put into words how I felt about Judge Driesel. He was a true friend to me and we had a very good working relationship."
Those who had dealings with the courts appreciated his impartiality and jurors appreciated his willingness to answer questions they ahd about the judicial system. He also had a good relationship with judges, clerks, and others he has worked with, say his associates. They noted his professionalism in considering their opinions and consulting them about court system problems.
"Professionally, he ws focused and made sure everything was fair. He was easy to work with and you knew his decisions were based on the laws and the facts," said Associate District Judge Michael DeBerry. "All the judges work very closely together and Judge Driesel was always available. Any major decisions regarding the court system he took up with the others judges. He let all the judges be judges and did not interfere with our rolls in individual cases."
Judge Willard Driesel came to live in McCurtain County in 1986 to practice law and did so for 26 years. His background included 11 years in law enforcement. He was a police officer in Oklahoma City area and headed the Drug Task Force in District 17. He prosecuted drug cases in this district, and was Oklahoma's Drug Prosecutor of the Year, all before becoming a judge. He was also a State Certified Instructor for law enforcement officers in Oklahoma.
After his election as district judge 17 years ago, Driesel made changes that made jury service easier, developing a jury questionnaire and shortened the time jurors had to wait. Judges in other districts had taken note of Driesel's system and many asked him to help them set up similar systems in their areas.
He also established the first Drug Court System in S.E. Oklahoma and it has been considered one of the best systems in the state. The McCurtain County Drug Court has been used as a model by other counties and judges who have established drug courts. For these reasons, Driesel was very proud of the role he played in getting this program established in this area.
In his 17 years as District Judge, he has presided over 103 jury trials and 34 murder trials, including death penalty cases. Out of the 103 jury trials, only 2 cases had been reversed. He also presided over the 2 largest civil cases in the history of McCurtain County.
Four years ago he was selected "presiding judge" to supervise all state courts in the 9 counties that make up S.E. Oklahoma. He was the first judge from this district to ever be selected for that position.
Three years ago he was appointed by the Secretary of State to serve on the Trial Court on the Judiciary. He was the first judge from this district to ever be selected for this position.
The death of Judge Driesel will vacate his elected seat as presiding Judge over Pushmataha, Choctaw and McCurtain counties and will result in the activation of a selection process for a new presiding District Judge.
According to Steven Taylor, Chief Justice of the Oklahoma Supreme Court, the process of naming a successor to Judge Driesel's position will begin with an announcement by the Oklahoma Judicial Nominating Commission (JNC). Justice Taylor said the JNC would soon publish on the Oklahoma State Courts Network (OSCN) website, a notice seeking applications for the District Judge seat. The notice will also contain a deadline date at which time the application process would be closed.
The JNC would then review the applications and schedule interviews with each applicant. At the conclusion of the interview process, the JNC will submit the names of the top three applicants to Governor Mary Fallin. Taylor said it is customary for the Governor to personally interview the three candidates before naming her selection. Names of the applicants will be made public at the conclusion of the application period.
[1] mailto:firstname.lastname@example.com
[2] http://www.theantlersamerican.com/sites/default/files/Willard Driesel Pic.jpg


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Who is ready for Bellator on Spike?
Who is ready for Bellator on Spike?
I live-tweet for the @Wrestlezonecom account for shows, so I won't be watching till the main card.
What is @wrestlezonecom?
Im watching and im not drunk for once. When Archer starts im going to have to make a very tough choice.
What the hell just happened?
tape one, do you have dvr? is it the new season of archer?
What a horrible stoppage from Big John.
I am not 100 % sure I will make it up all night. I love the Chandler vs Hawn fight but the work week has me tired.
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RIVERSIDE, Calif. - Cal State Northridge sent both men's and women's cross country teams to the UC Riverside Invitational where the women finished 16th while the men were 23rd.
Fany Alvarado was the top CSUN finisher in the women's 6k race. Alvarado placed 70th in a time of 22:24.9. Yvonne Castillo-Urbina was next in 74th-place after running 22:29.3.
The remainder of the Matador runners finished outside of the top-100. Ana Rosales (22:58.5) was 103rd, Araceli Zainos (23:29.0) was 117th, Legia Pendergraph (23:52.1) was 129th and Jasmine Cox (26:35.2) was 164th among the 167 runners in the field.
As a team, the Northridge women finished 16th out of 20 teams with 431 points and an average time of 23:02.76.
In the women's 5k several Matador runners made their 2011 debut including Natalie Wollaston (21:09.0) who finished a CSUN-best 179th. Desiree Karotko (21:51.0) was 203rd, Lindsay Anderson (22:59.6) was 220th and Crystal Spears (24:36.9 ) finished 237th.
In the men's 8k, Hunter Hays had the Matadors' top time as he finished 148th in 26:33.8. Cesar Lopez finished 157th in 26:41.3, Marvin Gonzalez was 162nd in 26:47.6, Tawei Ma was 185th in 27:21.1, Julio Mora was 190th in 27:28.9, Masis Hagobian was 213th in 28:14.8 and Steven Gonzales was 219th in 28:32.7. A total of 242 runners competed in the men's race.
As a team, the men clocked an average time of 26:58.54 and had 624 points in finishing 23rd out of 25 teams.


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Retirement Guys: Make life's changes less taxingWritten by Nolan Baker Mark Clair | | email@example.com
Spring is officially here. After the winter that the majority of Americans just went through, it couldn't come soon enough. Although it may look more like winter than spring outside, the meteorologists are confident that a change in the weather is coming.
The mounds of snow are melting and we are slowly but surely seeing the grass that has been dormant for several months. Before we know it, there will be daffodils and pansies blooming all around us. As for me, Nolan, I really enjoy spring. It signals the start of the boating and golf season.
With spring comes an urge for change. It gives us the urge to step outside, take the dog for a walk and have some fun.
This time of year, a lot of people are thinking about change. Perhaps it's time for a career change. It could be time to start a business or take a new position at another company. It could be time for a move to a new state. Perhaps someone may be getting ready to move to Toledo to enjoy our affordable housing and live closer to family. It could be a local resident ready to downsize and move to a lake house or somewhere warmer. If you are considering any of these changes, take some time to review our pointers on proper tax planning. These pointers listed below may help make those changes less taxing.
Home sales gain exclusion
I must admit, after going through the record cold and snowfall this past winter, hitting the beach to enjoy the sounds of the ocean sounds pretty appealing. Maybe you have the itch to move somewhere warmer. Retirement can also be a time that families consider downsizing their homes and try to figure out where to spend their retirement years.
Selling a home that has appreciated in value can be a way to realize those dreams. An individual can exclude up to $250,000 of gain on the sale of their home. A married couple does not have to pay federal income tax on up to $500,000. A few requirements to avoid this tax are (1) the owner must have owned the property for at least two of the past five years and (2) it must be their primary residence. If you are considering this option, talk with your accountant to learn more.
Moving expenses deduction
Maybe you aren't at retirement age just yet, but could use a change of scenery. If that's the case, and the move is job-related, the moving expenses might be tax deductable. I would advise someone moving due to a job change to keep a log of all expenses. Once the move is complete, the list can be reviewed by a tax preparer to see if anything can be used as a deduction. In general, expenses such as packing and shipping costs, storage fees for up to 30 days and travel expenses are typically deductible. To retrieve a complete list of deductions, please visit IRS Publication 521 at www.IRS.gov.
Self-employed retirement
The Retirement Guys recently interviewed Carolee Duckworth and Marie Langworthy, who are the authors of "Shifting Gears To Your Life and Work After Retirement." An interesting fact found in their book is that over the past decade those aged 55 to 64 have the highest rate of entrepreneurship. The time might be now for those ready for a change in life and looking to start their own business.
We'd like to encourage you to embrace your new adventures in retirement, whatever they may be. It's also important to remember to save for the future as well. A great way to do this, which may possibly provide you a tax benefit, is to set up a self-employed retirement plan. Depending upon what type of retirement account, an investor may contribute and deduct up to $57,500.
For more information about The Retirement Guys, tune in every Saturday at 1 p.m. on 1370 WSPD or visit www.retirementguysnetwork.com. Securities and Investment Advisory Services are offered through NEXT Financial Group Inc., Member FINRA / SIPC. NEXT Financial Group, Inc. does not provide tax or legal advice. The Retirement Guys are not an affiliate of NEXT Financial Group. The office is at 1700 Woodlands Drive, Suite 100, Maumee, OH 43537. (419) 842-0550.
Tags: arolee Duckworth and Marie Langworthy, boating, Golf, Home sales gain exclusion, Moving expenses deduction, proper tax planning, Self-employed retirement, spring, tax deductable, "Shifting Gears To Your Life and Work After Retirement"


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|33 posts found
Apprentice Member
Joined: 10/19/03
As the title states what is the one feature we would love to see or keep in mmos as well as one we could do without?
Me personally I would love to KEEP the story as I feel that gives depth and immersion to the game.....and one i could do with out is to over simplify the game, too many mmos do that today and I think that is a reflection on the generation coming up.
When I was a teen I wanted a challenge and I did not want anyone to tell me how to solve it unless I had tried all avenues....now it seems its all gimme gimme without any work to get the reward. I admit im 40 and have been playing mmos about 17+ years now but I still feel there is hope and that they need to be challenging without the instant gratiifaction all the time.
So how do you all feel? anyone??
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i kinda made this post in a dead thread. so sorry for hijacking abit but it is the same subject.
Here is what i think: (this was a reply to someone ignore the upper part)
MMO's today are not TOO good., why are alot of them hanging by a thread reverting to free to play if they are too good?
No our standards havnt really changed. but developers look at wow and think that bringing in a gazileon features = happy gamer.
This is not the case tho, the reason we are bored is that all those features are really shallow and dont really bring any fun too the game.
Now here is what should happen: Leveling exp needs to be 10folded at least. make it a chalange to level up because leveling up = adventuring, specially if you create a dangorous world to do it in where the slightest misspull can wipe your party (yes on random mobs)
Also make a need for grouping make thing unsoloable. Doing that will bring the community back into games because you have to group in order to lvl up, you can be succesfull 2manning but 4manning will be alot faster.
Bring back a death penalty, Dying should be a sin in an mmo. When you die penalty would be 50% of your next gained exp goes into your penalty for 10% of your lvl. If you have that people will watchout for eachother. you would like help if your in a predicament yourself so this creates a stronger community.
Also removes dungeons while your at it. make it all open world so you would have to find out for yourslf when a boss would be up or not.
these are simple little things wich todays mmo's are missing
the word MMO (Massivly Multiplayer Online) stands for adventuring together with people. not doing evrything by yourself and ocasionally group for a dungeon..
edit: These are things from past mmo's, things wich todays mmo's are missing. if you find Instant gaming fun the mmo market was never your place to have come searching. leveling up in a party was a whole lot of fun back in tha day.
Apprentice Member
Joined: 10/19/03
not sure your age but i think its the generation we are in or I am in:P
Originally posted by wayubb
Well i am 26, but i have been gaming Alot since when i was young. (yes i still got plenty of outside time) basicly any mmo before wow was set up this way. market got flooded by people without a clue and almost 10 years later we have our result.
Hard Core Member
Joined: 9/05/05
I miss indepth crafting, and character progression that doesnt involve levels, or pvp ranks/titles
Mess with the best, Die like the rest
Elite Member
Joined: 12/19/10
Could do without:
Lack Today:
Originally posted by Ridelynn
i like you :)
Spotlight Poster
Joined: 5/26/08
"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."- Henry Ford
Keep: WASD Controls -
Imo, games that try to stray to far from a control system that every one is so familiar with (semi-WASD to no WASD controls) end up doing some weird things that sound nice in theory (so called truly dynamic combat, auto switching of weapons etc.). But, make gameplay terrible in practice. The standard movement, jumping being useless, and way of targetting and attacking may be generic, but it's stable, it works, it's fairly kind to developing a sort of hand memory.
Some games have gone ages without anything close to WASD controls, then try to integrate it only partially. Others try to start off with their own take on WASd, how it works in their game. Doing either of these is pretty fail because the fact that most MMO's are re-hashes means the creators are not smart or creative enough to handle messing with such a long term standard. A few games have done well for years without WASD, but these, imo are few and far between.
...In short, use WASD or Don't but stop trying to re-invent the wheel.
Loose: Kill & Collect Questing -
This is when I quit most MMO's if they don't wow me graphically or with interesting storyline. If the best thing they can come up with out the gate is I am a new recruit who has to work my way up through a strand of repetative NPC's to fetch them nedless junk from pretty much the same monsters in different skins...I decline to play. This gets even worse when a game lets you auto-nav-run to the sites of your goals.
They might as well throw up a sign that says begin botting here. In questing I want to encounter riddles, and puzzzles, have to craft special items and move through obstacle courses, maybe have a time limit to do things within and have to figure out how to seemingly unrelated items work together...not mindlessly murder endless spawns until I level.
Basically, The linear grind is idiotic and that is the major earmark of it. Give me something more interesting to do.
Hard Core Member
Joined: 6/12/09
The thing i beleive are lacking in MMO's today
1- Death penalty, It help create immersion in the world, it makes your fear some area's it made the world exciting atleast to me i find myself playing game that have a death penalty much more than games such as Rift, WoW.
2- Depth of the game - There was much more depth to games preWoW for example with EQ you could kill any NPC in the game, if you were a human you could kill human guards, however by doing so you would loose reputation and gain it else where. For example killing a human guard in qeynos you woulkd loose rep with qeynos guard, sureefield glade but you would gain it with corrupted guards of qeynos. Kill tomany wolfs in Qeynos hill are the ranger of surefield didnt like you as much. Different NPC were different faction based for example there was faction for every class in a city and were different in all the other cities.
3- Social aspect of the games are long gone atm it a single player game till max lvl then 5 man dunguen crawl after that (where you dont even talk cause u wanna get through it asap).
4- No quest hubs, hate these much rather the older way where ytou discovber them urselfs. and they were acualy quests not kill 5 of these and talk to me.
Unfortuently nowadays people dont know about how important these thing are in MMORPG anymore cause they never played the older games due to starting with WoW
Hard Core Member
Joined: 11/15/09
The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.
keep deep crafting, ditch "new content making old one obsolete".
expansions should expand, not relocate.
Apprentice Member
Joined: 11/28/06
System that create emerging contents.
Hard Core Member
Joined: 1/02/08
Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.
MMO's lack recognition amongst PC developers.
Why if I want to play a game I have to spend hundreds on my PC to upgrade graphic card, etc, when I already spent hundreds for the PC itself? A PC that will work, what, 10 years tops and I have to go and buy another one. I hate game stations. I hate sitting on a couch instead of at a desk. I hate their limited in game movement. I hate the feel of controllers in my hands. I want to play on a PC with a keypad and mouse. MMO's can't advance until Wal-mart is selling supercomputers instead of crap for less than $200, BEFORE THE ECONOMY CRASHES. The only thing advancing now are DS's; tiny hand held games for little bitty children.
Why am I still driving a vehicle propelled by gasoline? I've seen plenty inventors come up with alternatives. Why doesn't anything in society advance anymore??? Everyone screams, "give us a better mmo!" Crap, give us better anything. Stop wasting idiot time trying to build a ladder to the moon, dissecting unborn children's brains, and making the *&%# telephone have more buttons!!!
Why are we not advancing anymore???
Best console game: DD Dark Arisen. Best mmo: GW2. Best game series ever: The Sims.
Advanced Member
Joined: 10/15/12
Originally posted by xeniar
Again you choose to play these new MMOs when there is an MMO that has everything you are asking for. Seems to me that you really don't want what you are asking for.
Now if you really want so top notch sandbox action then i suggest you watch this video and head on over to the forums and grab yourself a beta key,beta starts today.
This game has a cash shop but it's all vanity items like a sword that some idiot bought but all it did was look good and glow.
Watch this VId in HD all the way through. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJP3PgzodFU
Spotlight Poster
Joined: 5/26/08
"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."- Henry Ford
Here is another related set I can think of for keep and lose in MMO's (I am starting to like this thread more and more).
[Note: Keep btw is synonymous in my repies here with what they are lacking fully or to some degree, as is Lose for what they can do without... I find this format easier to work with in replying I hope others do as well.]
Keep: High degrees of player moderation. -
When players can flag rule breakers, punish people who abuse pvp to make low levels lives hell, fame and defame each other within a rating system, Handle ticket issues, And in some instances even temp-ban or temp-mute poor additions to their community pending further review...it's all the better, Imo. There are a good number of MMO developers out there that seem almost terrified of giving over any kind of authority to their player base. But, I have never seen a good example of this having been done, and not going even better then could have been hoped for.
Lose: Apparent Developer Apathy -
Developers of games often seem distant, Disconnected with the player base, and otherwise disconcerned with anything but the bottom line.... They often seem that way. This is not usually the case, and the fact is they are usually busy. But, what they are busy with is normally not very transparent.
I think players need to be able to glimpse a lot more of the process. And, feel a lot more connected and that they are cared for. There is not much else that is more discouraging then getting an auto-response to a ticket that doesn't help and sometimes doesn't even address an issue a player is having. Or bringing up a real issue within a game about some sort of glitch or buggyness and seing it go ages without even being responded to.
Spotlight Poster
Joined: 5/26/08
"If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."- Henry Ford
Originally posted by Jemcrystal
First, sorry for the double post but I saw this after I posted another thought I had on this subject.
I think that is on MMO developers more then the PC industry for a few reasons. For the computer inustry, there is no one panel of people who sit back and decide how good computers will be and what they will be able to handle, and above all what they will cost for the next year. It's not the london fix.
You have people who make chipsets like intel, people who make hardrives like sea gate, software and back-enders like cisco systems. They each do their best to put out the best stuff for the best prices. companies like HP or acer take parts from them and build machines that are sold to companies who slap their logo on them and send them to a store to be sold to the end customer...
That is only a very basic (also somewhat flawed and omitting look at how that works) look at how the industry works. it's so in depth, and involved, with so many people who will never be on the exact same page that it is impossible to wave your fist at the machine in fury and expect results.
On the computer industry end of things the truth is consumers determine the price and what is available by their trends of consumption. MMO's could advance a lot if we all had a laptop size super computer we picked up for 50 bucks. That won't happen any time soon though because gaming is not the main drive of the industry.
Now, look at MMO developers. They have only a single point to come from on it. They have tons of model formats, engine types, hosting ability and what not to choose from. And if they pick a winning formula more people can play more often.
For instance with Runescape I can still play it on a dinosaur pc with windows 98' special edition, as easily as I can play it on my Thermaltake running windows 7. Because it's developers picked java to run it on and build it in, something every machine has across the planet. Not only this but they inovated in ways never thought imaginable before on java. pushing the language used as a game engine to it's limits and mastering it's application.
And, in the comming year they will make a bigger leap then it was from the classic 2d version to the 3d it is today by switching over to html5....
Then look at up-commings like ArchAge that will basically take all the best features of MMO's that currently exist, enhance them and seemlessly blend them into a single game, while at the same time ditching all the stuff people tend to hate feature wise in an MMO.
My point is that MMO's only truly advance when their developers decide to push the limits of what they can currently offer, and make true inovations, as apposed to cranking out the next big throw together title that will make them a lot of money.
Novice Member
Joined: 4/24/07
I could do without mentoring, power leveling and Rested/Bonus Exp, Raids and Voice chat
Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Originally posted by Rimmersman
Ah vanguard.
Yes the thing with vanguard is. When it was in beta or just went live, i have played it i played it a day and i did not do anything for me. not combat not enviroment. i was quickly done with it.
Novice Member
Joined: 4/24/07
if they completely redid the engine and made performance not suck then yeah Vanguard would be great.
Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Novice Member
Joined: 9/19/10
Bad things we dont need:
Fast leveling or leveling at all - I really dislike the fact that all games at the moment is like, go out kill 1 mob, turn in q, DING level 2... oh wow, i dinged level 2? Seriously, that just makes no sense at all, i remember in DAoC, dinging level 10 was awesome nice, it was also, decent fast, but it was not too fast.
The reason games are like that nowadays is to hide the fact it has nada content. Zones are rushed through so easy. Levels should take long, and it should not be obtainable by questing, it should force you out in the wilderness, to explore, and whack stuff... either solo or in a group. Voila, mmorpgs got the mmo back in them, that was easy.
Heck why even have leveling... Ultima Online did it perfectly, you gain skill... based on the skill you use. Voila, easy, endgame created just by that. You maxed Sword? But want Mace instead? -sword+Mace, get whacking! But i understand if everyone does not like that system, im fine with keeping levels, just make it take forever to hit max level, WHILE you have some awesome fun content. Simply being able to group up, and whack VERY hard hitting crabs in DAoC, in the early levels, was fun!
Fast traveling - Honestly, being able to go from a-z in a milisec, makes the world seem small and useless. Make all areas and zones have something fun and valuable in them, make some zones hard to get to, voila... gameworld allready feels more like a world. Horses in DAoC was a good "fast travel" system... it still took you some time to get there, but you could atleast go make coffee, or talk with people (shock), in the meantime. Ultima Online had the recall system.. worked also, but not sure that would work today. Make capitols or similar big cities "teleportable"... but to get out to the good hunting areas? TRAVEL! Also, remove mounts, or make them decorative stuff only. It wont happen i know, people like their flying crap.
Good things we need:
Zones being ... varied.
Im tired of seeing zones 1-15, 15-25, 25-35 etc. Seriously... Every friggin zone should have some varity in them... even the highest friggin zones should have some cap level monsters people are able to solo, able to group and able to raid. Lots of them. And every friggin low level zone should NOT just have 1-15 mobs... there should be monsters allowing you, as a lowbie, to level up, BUT there should also be monsters allowing even higher level characters to come to that zone, and level up. That could be an "Orc camp, who set up a camp close to newbie city HullaNewbie", where if you were a level 1-15 you would get royally owned, and fear that place... but then you would see a level 35 come by, whack the place, and think "OMG I WANNA BE AS STRONG AS HIM WHEN I GROW UP.... BACK TO LEVELING!!!"....
Dungeons being.... NOT INSTANCED!
Seriously... im so tired of it. Dungeons should be open for all. Again, in all dungeons (which should be huge!), there should be monsters people can solo, people can duo, people can group against, and monsters which people would need nothing short of a raid to defeat.... Ofcourse the raiding part only makes sense later in the game. But nevertheless, there should be "dungeon bosses", which would be almost suicide to take on solo/duo, to promote group play.
Loot being... varied and good everywhere...
Weird topic, i know. Anyways, good loot should NOT be dropping from dungeons... it should be dropping EQUALLY all over the world, except those special bosses in HIGH end dungeons. In a level 15 dungeon, you should be able to get good loot, no doubt, and some special loot, BUT... there should still be outdoor areas, and alot of them, that gives the exact same shot at good loot, heck, there should be bosses out there also, which gives that special loot. Normal, soloable/duoable/groupable monsters, should overall, no matter where, drop the same amount of loot-quality. Dungeons however, should have their "special items", maybe with graphic differences... people love that nowadays, and a faster respawn time, and a % chance to drop. Whereas outdoor special bosses, would drop 100%, but spawn slower.
I got so much more to write, but... im old, and no one agrees. I wish someday, a mmorpg will be released, which i will enjoy again...
Hard Core Member
Joined: 10/10/03
I am not going to mention something old I want brought back. I am going to ask for something we will be asking to be brought back in 5 to 10 years time. MMOs are devolving and I don't think we will have all these features in five to ten years time:
In five to ten years time some or all of the above will have been removed from MMO's. Some are already rare like factions, but they are increasingly given little time in the new easyMMO's.


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GIF(t) of the Week: 4 GIFs to get you ready for the weekend's Cali Clasico
GIF(t) of the Week: 4 GIFs to get you ready for the weekend's Cali Clasico
June's dramatic California Clasico still leaves a sweet taste in our mouth, and we hope it gets even sweeter this weekend.
Just like MLSsoccer.com's Anatomy of a Goal, we thought we'd break down Alan Gordon's stoppage time game-winner... in GIF form - cause it's Friday, right?
1. It all started with this. It's okay to laugh. Marvin is.
2. Turns out giggles do lead to goals. That's fun:
3. Buschy celebrates.
4. Icing on the cake.
Join us for the official watch party at the Wicked Chicken in Santa Clara this weekend when the Quakes face their SoCal rivals, the LA Galaxy, on Saturday at 7:30 p.m. PT. Tune in to CSN Plus or catch the match on 1590 KLIV or 1370 KZSF.


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We had a chance this week to drive a group of F30 335i equipped with the full complement of BMW M Performance Parts. On the performance side, these cars featured M Performance Power Kit (PPK), suspension kit, brakes and exhaust. Cosmetic enhancements include the M Performance front lip spoiler/splitters, sport stripes, carbon fiber mirror caps, black kidney grilles, side-sill decals, 20″ wheels (Style 405M), carbon fiber/alcantara interior and carbon fiber shift lever.
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Photos courtesy of E46toF30.
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The two F30 finished in the order in which they qualified for the race – first and second.
Congrats to the team!
Czech artist Andy Reiben was commissioned by DyCom Group, a BMW Dealership in the Czech Republic to create this F30 3 Series Art Car, which is expected to join the previous 17 official BMW Art Cars.
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With the recent release of the BMW M Performance Power Kit for the F30 335i and the resulting questions regarding the kit from our members, we thought this would be a good time to solicit your questions regarding the PPK and/or any other M Performance Parts related inquiry.
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This Estoril Blue F30 328i with M Performance parts and stripes is on display at the 2013 New York International Auto Show and represents the debut of a M Performance Parts equipped F30 at a North America auto show.
This F30 is equipped with the M Performance front splitters/lip, wheels (20″ Style 405M), brakes, sideskirts, trunk spoiler lip, rear bumper diffuser, and M Performance racing stripes. It rides on stock suspension (not M Sport suspension). It also did not feature any M Performance interior parts, nor … CONTINUED
Yesterday, we brought you news of the availability of the F30 335i M Performance Power Kit (PPK) [full details].
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Well, these figures … CONTINUED
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Catch this intense BMW European Delivery journal and photo thread by F30POST member Jackson743 documenting his 9 day – 1,000 mile euro delivery adventure where he picked up his F30 335i M Sport.
Warning: intense amount of photos inside
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