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Am I a terrible drummer?
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
Without hearing you play I can't comment on how terrible or otherwise you are.
But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
But as a high school student, I'll go out on a limb and guess you're "spicing up" the drum parts. In that you should be aiming to play like Ringo when you're playing Beatles songs, the director is spot on.
You don't have to set your kit up the same way, cut your hair the same way or wear a collarless jacket...but you should play as close to Ringo's playing as you possibly can, and avoid the urge to come up with "better" drum parts.
The other thing you might want to consider is having a frank discussion with the director and find out what his gripe really is. Be prepared to talk, and be prepared to listen too.
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
I think the only real solution is to go down to the courthouse and get your name legally changed to "Ringo Starr".
What's he going to say?
"Hey, uh, Ringo... You need to play a bit more like, er..."
Mods, I think we can go ahead and close the thread. I've solved the issue entirely.
"I ain't got time to bleed." - Blaine
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
Yes I agree.. you can't mess with Ringo's parts! Or if you are trying to play them and they're not sounding the same then you need to seriously analyze what it is that's stopping you. I think they call it 'woodshedding'.. spend some serious time practicing the parts and video yourself and watch objectively.. Is your time steady? Are you getting the dynamics right... a solid balance between your kick , snare and hats? Are the fills simple yet expressive? Take it as a challenge to see if you can get inside the parts and really nail them - and the next time you play for the conductor if you don't blow him away then get a second opinion to make sure its not him that/s off!
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
Nobody will play like Ringo. I was joking around with a fellow this weekend who played in a Beatles tribute band. Tasteful grooving player, and he is a lefty playing righty so he should be able to nail Ringo. He gets close to the feel but told me that it's much harder than it looks. http://youtu.be/KG0MA1ZErUk
When playing other people's music, start by trying to capture as much of their vibe as possible. You can learn from everybody''s playing. If you're playing in some sort of show/tribute/someone else's band, try to reproduce that. If you're playing in your own band doing your own thing, start from where you found it and then add yourself. Don't shortcut the way you found it.
About a year ago, I was at a jam and was behind a singer who turned out to want everything to be like a runaway freight train. She started the song in free time and didn't count in, so I played it at standard tempo. A friend who is a much better drummer than I was laughing afterwards and said that I played it "exactly where famous and important producers and arrangers had long ago decided where it should be". In the absence of any other direction, I played it like the record. Everyone else knew where to be with the original tempo and groove (as best as I could manage it).
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
You like being in band and want to stay, right?
So go to your director and ask for specific things to fix in regards to your playing. Listen and apply what he says best you can. If he's criticizing, he should know enough to explain what he wants.
With setup, you might find setting your kit up more like Ringo might make certain parts easier to play in some fashion. AND it might placate your director some and get him off your back.
Dedication? Only you can answer that one. If you honestly feel like you're dedicated, maybe up it a notch anyway. It's drums! So the worst that happens is a few more sticks and heads get worn out and you get better, right?
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
I'd say you haven't played long enough anyway. After you've done ten years or so (for some even 20) you should be able to get a handle on whether or not you can do what you're supposed to do. 2-3 years just isn't enough for me to be a judge.
That said, band directors aren't perfect people either, so there may be some legitimate gripe he has too.
Or, like has already been said, you're messing with the parts you should be playing. I say post a video of your playing and then we can be the judge.
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
Young drummers are pretty bad with overplaying (I was too), and in a concert band setting you're playing with instruments that draw more conservative musicians and so you will stick out like a sore thumb if you play a big fill or don't serve the song.
If you're worried you suck then you should demonstrate your playing to someone.. We have no clue what you're like.
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
On the other hand perhaps the Director is just a git and has an issue with you. It is possible, we only have one side of the story here. If its a marching band how earth can it sound exactly like the Beatles? Also its high school, I would presume there is a fairly broad range of abilities. Is the bassist a leftie and is he using a Hofner Violin bass?
Also I find it hard to agree with Bo, on the longevity take, If you can play you can play. Using the 10 or 20 year minimum stance would rule out most if not all the drummers in pop/rock/punk.
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
Here have some motivation.
I remember watching a video on YouTube a while back, can't remember what it was called otherwise I would link it. It said that no one is a bad drummer. And no one is worse than anyone else.
Drumming is a journey, and anyone who is "better" than you, is just ahead of you on this journey, and at some point were exactly where you are. Anyone who is actually a committed player can't be called bad, they're just behind other people on their journey. Inspirational post of the day there
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
Don't let it get you down. It's hard to sound like another drummer, but if you're doing a proper "cover" without any embellishments, it's best to stick as closely to the source material as possible.
"... As war machine, crushes their balls, God have mercy..."
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
Zurg, I only see challenges in your OP :)
3 years drumming is not what you'll call a lot of experience, so it might be quite a few things to look at...
How do you project yourself? your attitude towards your band mates, the director and the music might need a different approach?
Take the challenge to play Ringo's parts as close as the records as you can, it's easily said, harder to do, try to capture the feel. Do not overplay and do not add your own things/patterns while playing the songs.
Work and practice those songs at home, really hard, so on your next rehearsal, the director should see some serious improvement, that should get the "dedication" part solved.
I have not seen your setup, but set it up as conventionally as possible, beginners and young drummers tends to have strange set up. Is the tuning of your kit OK?
Last but not least, ask your director for advices, directions, etc... he/she will like that.
Here you go, if after genuinely applying all the above, your director's still not happy with you, then it might be something wrong with him/her.
But I'll reckon you'll be alright, swallow your pride and ego... and go for it :)
Let us know how it goes.
Keep On Drumming
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
I love Ringo...he's one of my favourite drummers of all time. And he's massively under-rated.
But, seriously, I have to say this. His drum parts, in the main, are not particularly challenging. I'm not suggesting that it's easy to pull off the exact sound Ringo produced, but certainly in terms of technicality, he rarely did anything 'scary' for competent, even to lower standards, drummers.
If the show is a Beatles show, I can wholly understand why the tutor would want the drum sequences to be 'Ringo-like'....which again I don't suggest means 'simple' or 'dumbed down' but I would say means 'linear' or 'without excess'.
Just my humble opinion.
I lost my bag at Newport Pagnell.....
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
Zurg......there are a lot of people on here giving you a hard time, not sure why, this forum is usually supportive of its members. What we need is for you to come back and give us some more details and info. Are you playing the parts as close to original as you can?
Is the rest of the band nailing every part spot on?
Is there another reason why the guy has an issue with you?
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
The couple of Beatles songs I've played have been fast (160 bpm) and they would be very difficult for a beginner. Normal players with 2-3 years do not have much control of dynamics and sound. I would be very surprised if you did sound like Ringo.
He used to swish his hihats with a sideways motion, which no-one else seems to do. I imagine this introduces a touch of swing to his playing. It's an unnatural technique when you first try it for sure.
Study old videos and just work on your sound. Introduce dynamics one limb at a time in your practice and focus on good technique and lighter playing. Ringo has jazz influences and is not a big hitter.
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
There are better ways for a band director to explain how he wants you to play. he sounds like a failed drummer to me.
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
Whatever it is...I hope he has gained some of the same useful insight from this thread that I have. :)
I am deluded enough to think I can bring something to the table - Huey Lewis.
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
I am yet to see an add for a drummer that includes "Must have at least 20 years experience, or you wont be any good". Not in my neck of the woods anyway and If someone did I would avoid the numpties like the proverbial.
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
A bad drummer will make a good band sound bad. And a bad band will make a good drummer sound bad. If your listeners are comfortable with what you're doing, and you're confident in your abilities, don't worry about it. More often than not, we're our own worst critics. I often find that when I'm playing in front of a crowd, even if I make an obvious mistake, nobody notices. Even bandmates don't really notice. As long as time is being kept, more often than not, people pay us little mind.
As for your director, he's just one of those judgmental prudes who thinks if you aren't playing how 'he' thinks you should play, it's wrong, and you need to change it. I've met enough chaps like that in my lifetime, and I'm sure I'll meet hundreds more. Ignore it, and hold your head up.
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
I'm going to bombard you with questions. Is this a marching band field show? Or is this for an indoor concert band on stage? Is a drumline playing, too? Is it the full band or is a jazz band?
Playing in any of these contexts is completely different than playing in a rock band. For the most part, you stay out of the way, keep really solid time, and focus on dynamics. As a drummer in a school band, dynamics are especially important because the rest of the band subconsciously matches your volume. A few simple, tasteful, and well-executed fills are usually all it takes to liven it up.
Do you have a written part? In my experience, two-thirds of the drum set parts I've seen in concert bands are pretty much worthless. I reference them for tempo, time signatures, dynamics, and general style. Even the worst ones usually have at least a hint of where its appropriate to put those few tasteful fills. On the other third of the written parts, I follow it note-for-note just like I would if I were playing say the timpani part.
In a band with a director- especially a school band- your goal is to please the director. You have to trust that the director is coordinating everybody's individual parts to put together to please the audience. What are the director's primary and secondary instruments? Most of my directors have been drummers, so they were very hard on me, but they definitely knew what they wanted. Other directors can be relatively clueless about what they want from the drums and completely ignore them. Your director sounds like he's in the middle somewhere. He knows what he doesn't want and has a vague idea of what he wants. But he's struggling to articulate either to you. Your responsibility to the band is to help bridge that communication gap- even if at times it feels like playing pin the tail on the donkey.
Many band programs require a few one-on-one lessons with the director each semester. Does your band do this? If so, perhaps you should schedule one. One way or another, you really should try to find a chance to discuss or work one-on-one. Before you do, you should prepare some material as others have suggested. Listen to the original recordings and practice playing like that. Brainstorm and practice a few other approaches and just try them in rehearsal. There's a good chance he'll know what he wants when he hears it and let you know.
Finally, do not feel discouraged. Playing the drum set in a concert band is one of the toughest things to do as a drummer. You have to bring out the somewhat rebellious nature of rock and roll music while conforming to the composer and director's interpretation.
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
Zurgman, It is not that you are a bad drummer. I am a marching band percussion instructor. I teach the drumline and pit percussion. I have also taught a beetles show with a drum set player in the pit percussion.
I almost know what your band director is going through. Or maybe I am wrong and he is just a complete ******. The drum set player in my pit was a good drummer but was not doing what he needed to. When you are playing in a marching band that is doing pop/rock/jazz anything where there is normally a drum set player you have to do it the way it was on record. I know that the marching band I taught was a competition band. The first critique of that season that I went to they did not mention the drumline. They told me that the drum set player was not Ringo enough. So that is where my work started. The parts you were given may not be what Ringo played (if you are given music). So it is your job to listen to your field show music and The Beatles recording of what it is supposed to be. From here write out your own music note for note. It can be in standard western civilization notation. Or just a drum tab. It really doesn't matter how you write it although from a percussion instructor I recommend getting comfortable reading and writing western notation. From there learn the parts note for note. Then try to recreate the feel that Ringo had. Honestly this is the hardest part. A lot of young and old drummers alike can't get a good feel for how something is supposed to be. But work on it and you will improve on all aspects of drumming. Remember that one of the first steps of being a good musician is mimicking the masters.
As far as the Set up goes. Go ahead and set up the drums like he wants you to and then just move them a little bit to where you can get comfortable. In marching band visual representation is actually important. Sure it might not be important in all aspects of playing but this time it is.
So just give your band director the benefit of the doubt. More than likely he knows whats best.
And most importantly keep on playing and Have fun playing.
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
This is an excellent example of when less is more,and recreating his original parts should be your goal,and not seeing how many notes you can play to a bar.
Just a point of information however,there were 3 different drummers on the "Imagine" album; Alan White(who actually plays drums on the title cut),Jim Keltner and Jim Gordon.
Steve B
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
Mr. Zurgman, the optimist in me is saying that perhaps your MD likes you and is trying to better you. It sounds like he gets the fact that the drums can make or break a piece, and perhaps he is trying to steer you down the right path because maybe he sees something in you that can be developed. I would take his critique as positively as possible, and please, don't even think about the quitting thing.
From the info you provided, what you are playing...it sounds like you aren't doing what he is looking for, at least in some places. If you can learn to take comments that are designed to be helpful to your playing...even if the delivery is less than optimal...that skill will serve you well. I suggest recording your practices so you can hear what's going on. Things that don't work should be readily apparent. Taking that recording to the MD for his opinions can only help you, and it will show him initiative on your part. It will give you a chance to really discuss any problem areas, and since you are not playing and have all your brainpower to analyze things, maybe his comments will make more sense.
Learn to use criticism to benefit you, and keep it positive. An open mind and a willingness to hear and use criticism is a great skill, and not limited to drumming. A positive attitude, even when someone is questioning your choices, is admirable. So try and be that guy.
I always say, hey I'll play whatever you want. If someone has an intelligent opinion about the drum part, it's in your best interest to try what is being suggested.
Sucking all the fun right out of life....
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
On the longevity of playing issue, I still don't see how the length of time you have played comes into it. I could have been playing for 20 years, for 2 hours per week and still be a poor drummer. Our friend, the OP could have been playing for 3 years, 8 hours a day, every day, and be a great drummer. Or he could just be a "Natural" who finds everything about drumming easy. Who can tell.
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
Not sure what your long term goals are...but...
The question re: your drumming skills is irrelevant.
The question is, how do you respond to negative feedback?...accurate or inaccurate.
If you do not respect the source, ignore it.
If you respect the source, explore it.
One of the difficult long term learning skills re: drumming(or anything else) is how to learn and persist.
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
So many questions to answer... So, for starters I have been trying to play more like ringo Starr, I have just found that for me personally he just had a certaint, almost uncapturable element, so simple yet tasteful at the same time, which is something I struggle with. I set my kit up relatively average, I flatten my toms, have a ride and a crash cymbal, etc. This is marching band, so often times the battery is playing so I'm not completely dependent on tempo, and as far as dedication goes, I honestly just don't know what he means. I've practiced every day, showed up to every rehearsal (required and optional) and done what Ive been told without batting an eyelash. Sorry if I didn't provide enough info the first time, I'm new to this forum, also, im sorry for not providing feedback sooner, I'm busy with school.
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
That was Alan White on Imagine. Post Beatles song.
You know, despite what the collective says here, I've always thought Ringo's drumming on Come Together was lacking, so I do a hybrid of the Aerosmith version and the Beatles version. I've never played it any other way and you know what? I've never had one complaint.
5A Sticks--Coated Heads--Acoustic Drums--Cast Bronze Cymbals--Heavy-Duty Hardware
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
The difference between his performance and Joey Kramers, is so slight as to be negligible.The only real difference, is a few more beats in Kramers fill,and a slightly faster tempo,which was no doubt a Lennon/Martin decision,and not Ringos.He could have easily played it faster if need be.
Was George Harrisons lead and solo,"lacking" what Joe Perry played also?:):)
Steve B
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
Lots of good points brought up here. But this statement may also be a clue:
"These are things that I've always felt very strongly that should be left to the drummer himself"
If you are focused on you it will show up. You need to be focused on the overall sound and provide your part of it. And if you are playing Beatles music as a tribute in a school band and the director wants you to play more like Ringo, then that is what you need to do.
What none of us can tell is how good you are or what kind of band director you have. You may be giving us the impression you get from him but that may not be the impression we would get if we watched the interaction. It is ALWAYS best when being criticized is to listen and evaluate for yourself. As humans, and even moreso when we are young, we tend to not take criticism well. EVen if the band director is being too harsh on you, by listening and evaluating and improving it will help you in the long run.
A picture of your set up and a video of your playing would allow us to evaluate more objectively.
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
The other difference of course is Ringo had dishtowels on his toms for that cut. Thats why the drums are so muted, or thud like.
George Martin was having Ringo use that a lot for some of their last works. You can also see dishtowels on his toms for the concert for Bangladesh (the movie).
To the OP, don't give up, take what positive advice you can from your director. My guess is he's asking you to underplay or at least not overplay. I think Ringo is a great reference to use, the same way somebody would say "try to play it more like" Keith Moon (impossible?) or John Bonham.
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
I play the verse part with a money beat and 8th notes on the BD whereas they play it in half time. Kramer plays the snare, Ringo kept it on the toms. In the verse, I like to play it by riding on the crash for those 3 measure and after the solo part before the third verse I use 3 barks on the hats rather than a grab of the cymbal on the 1. It's subtle differences, but it just feels better to me, and like I've said, nobody has ever complained.
5A Sticks--Coated Heads--Acoustic Drums--Cast Bronze Cymbals--Heavy-Duty Hardware
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
The crux of this particular biscuit is how one deals with critique. Critique can easily sound like criticism, and it's easy to deliver critique as criticism if one is not careful. Try and ignore any emotions a bad delivery stirs and focus on what's really being suggested. People can unintentionally hurt with words, just let it roll off your back.
On another note, it took me a while before I was able to hear everything going on. For a bunch of years in the beginning of my drumming journey, my "listening sphere" didn't expand past the drums. Playing good drums requires good listening skills, (means listening to the others) and a knowledge of what the role of the drumset is in an ensemble situation.
Like generally speaking, unless your name is Keith Moon, the drums are not a lead instrument. They lay down the pavement so the lead players can roll their leads out. Of course the drums are much more than that, but you have to have that going on as Job 1, generally speaking.
Sucking all the fun right out of life....
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
I knew Imagine wasn't Ringo, but that was an easily found clip that had the Ringoish vibe. I didn't know that Alan White was on the cut though. I can see Keltner or Gordon coping the vibe but I always thought of White in the Yes vein. Goes to show that a really good musician has more gears than you think.
That is one of the things that people starting out miss out on, I think. Copping the vibe and feel of the songs and the players on them. I think there is more to learn there that is musically useful than in complex time signatures and such. Somehow, you have to let go of the flash and recognize the skill needed to play all these different genres and feels. And feel the same sense of accomplishment when you get the feel that's on the original that you get when you manage to get though some elaborate riff.
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
So because Ringos performance is DIFFERENT than yours,his was some how LACKING? Not just different....and totally original?
So no credit for actually coming up with the drum parts to an original song,and having to please three of the biggest celebrity musicians in the world,not to mention some of the most critical perfectionists in McCartney and producer,George Martin.
The ground work was already done.That's the hard part.
Steve B
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
Sorry to read you're having a hard time, no one likes to be beaten into the ground daily, not fun.
There has been a lot of good advise given here, you're new to the site, so It may read like tough love, but those who have offered advice are good folk, and are looking to help.
One point I would echo, is to try and have a quite word with the MD, at a time when he is not rushed, and ask for some pointers and examples of where he feels things are not going right, it will show you care, and are willing to ask for help.
If it is a question of maybe you're overplaying, try to get this out of your system when you're practicing on your own, then put on your Ringo hat for rehearsals.
Lastly, drumming is meant to be fun, even in a band or drumline, so keep your head high, and realise after 3 years of drumming you're the one on the stool, not someone else, so its not all going wrong!
Please keep us up to date with how things progress.
Last edited by HMNY; 10-25-2013 at 04:23 PM. Reason: need to proof read more!
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
Larry, I thought it was the Apostrophe!
"The crux of this particular biscuit is how one deals with critique"
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
That is the whole crux of being a musician, coming up with the part in the first instance. Its ok guys saying, I can play that, that's easy.....but they did not have the nouse to come up with it as an original piece.
As Stewart Copeland said: "Slavish devotion to copying and emulation is the death of musical creativity. .' That whole thing of replicating what others do is a siren call. The sirens lure you to the rocks of unoriginality."
Re: Am I a terrible drummer?
So freakin' what?
5A Sticks--Coated Heads--Acoustic Drums--Cast Bronze Cymbals--Heavy-Duty Hardware
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Recipe by Christy J.
"This vibrant frozen dessert offers fresh berry flavor at its best."
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1 quart
fresh strawberries, hulled
1 1/2 cups
heavy cream, divided
3/4 cup
white sugar
egg yolks
3 tablespoons
light corn syrup
Creamy, full of flavor, and simply delicious. Don't be tempted to reduce the amount of strawberries, even while it may seem too much. The corn syrup acts as a stabilizer, and reduces crystalization, so I'll be curious to see how this ice cream fares after a few days--if it lasts that long! I used 1 c. heavy cream and 1/2 c. half and half (experience has proven I like that ratio best) and added 1 tsp. vanilla to the cooked custard. I pureed about 2/3 of the strawberries in the food processor, then added the remaining strawberries and pulsed just to chop them up a bit. It was the perfect combination. This is intensely strawberry with a beautiful, vibrant color. I am anxious to try this with raspberries and blueberries!
Pretty good recipe. Next time I try this, I'll double the batch though. Too much effort to be all gone in just a couple of days.
88 Ratings
This is very good if you want a basic, lovely strawberry ice cream recipe. I love to make ice cream and have been making it for many years. The only thing I would say is that you will need to stir your custard as it is heating. Remember to not let it boil! If you do not stir, your yolk will not properly incorporate and you will get cooked egg lumps. I imagine this is why she added the seive step. You will not need to draw it through a seive if you stir and keep the ingredients together. It will not take 5 minutes when you continually stir it. It is probably closer to about 15 to 20 before it coats the back of a spoon. It will give you a nice creamy texture and the ice cream will be very smooth. I promise! :) I also added fresh cut strawberries to the mixture at the last five minutes of my ice cream machine's cycle.
This is a very good, flavorful ice cream. I made a couple of changes for ease more than flavor, and a couple for flavor. For flavor, I added a tsp of vanilla extract to the berry puree. I used a ratio of 2/3 heavy cream to 1/3 half and half - this gives a better overall ice cream texture. For ease, I whisked the 1/3 part half and half with the egg yolks until it appeared completely mixed in, then added the sugar and corn syrup and stirred until desolved. I poured the mixture directly into a cold pot and added the cream, them whisked until completely blended. I heated over low heat, then once hot, increased the temp to medium low and cooked until mixture coated the back of a metal spoon. Doing this eliminates the need to strain, and also eliminates the possibility of your yolks turning into cooked egg bits. Adding corn syrup is great if the ice cream maker you are using has a metal mixing container. Many times the metal gets too cold and the mixture will stick to the insides like a sorbet. This did not happen with this recipe! I had perfect, flavorful ice cream. This recipe is also a good base for other flavors of ice cream, and not just of the berry variety. I definitely plan to experiment. We will use this recipe time and time again! It's a winner. Thank you to Christy J for sharing it.
A little too sweet, so I'll reduce the sugar by 1/4 cup next time ... and I used 1c. whole milk plus 1c. heavy cream for a slightly denser product. Came out good! I did just mash the berries, though, instead of pureeing them. I like the chunks!
I made this recipe because I had extra strawberries and a new ice cream maker. I normally do not eat strawberry ice cream. This however was AMAZING! A great recipe. I did as someone else had suggested and pureed most of the strawberries and chopped the remained up so that there are chunks in the mix. Loved by all!
This is my first attempt at strawberry ice cream and so far it is delicious fresh out of the machine. Will have to see how hard it sets up and what the ice crystals are like after that. But a great way to use up the extra berries I had after a dinner I catered. Thanks, Christy J.!
The taste of the berries was like nothing I can buy, and I USED to buy nothing but premium ice cream. Next time, I'll try using a bit less sugar. And believe it or not, using the best, most ripe berries made a big difference.
* Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet.
Strawberry Ice Cream
Serving Size: 1/6 of a recipe
Servings Per Recipe: 6
Amount Per Serving
Calories: 390
Calories from Fat: 221
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I've been reading about this recent rather fantastic Twitter trend among the gaming crowd, #1reasonwhy, over the past few days. It was sparked by Luke Crane of Kickstarter who asked why there were so few female game developers in the industry.
That set off a chain of responses from many, many women working in the industry talking about hostile work conditions for women and countless other issues they face. There is no question that women are mistreated in the gaming industry both professionally and as players, and it must be put to an end for the medium to thrive and be taken seriously.
There's one specific aspect of misogyny in gaming I want to discuss today, one that I think is not the best argument to make when we talk about issues like this. It's the idea of the "oversexualization" of female characters in games. Potential female players are driven away from the medium by "sexy video game vixens," and there's a general idea that women are treated as sex objects in games much of the time. It's an argument I saw used in the #1reasonwhy hashtag more than a few times, but I believe that it's both incorrect and outdated. Hear me out.
Much time has been spent discussing the good examples of how powerful women have started to emerge in games, without overt sexuality attached to them. Faith of Mirror's Edge, Samus Aran of Metroid, Alyx Vance of Half-Life, FemShep of Mass Effect. There's progress being made there. But what I wanted to talk about today are the examples that everyone will point to. The "obviously" sexually charged women in games. It's easy to see why they are viewed as sex objects much of the time, but I want to ask a counter-question:
Is it even possible for a male video game character to be a sex object?
It only seems fair to ask, and I'll provide some examples of what I'm talking about here.
The "idealized hero form" is something that's existed long before video games, originating in modern pop culture in the form of comic books. It's a type of anatomy that represents the pinnacle of human perfection, and even extends far beyond what any flesh and blood humans are capable of building themselves into. It's why the Justice League looks like this. The costumes may change over the years, but the body types do not:
The concept applies to gaming as well. Outside of create-a-character titles like Saints Row, you're not going to find many heroes of either gender with a less than ideal body. The men are hulking with chiseled abs and broad shoulders. The women have flat stomachs and perfect breasts. These are the "ideal forms" of each of these characters. Yet only one of them is ever viewed sexually to outsiders, the women.
Let's do some compare and contrast here. Here's Soul Calibur, a game often critiqued for its oversexualized women. We have Misturugi, the shirtless Samurai warrior that would likely make many women swoon if he was a flesh and blood man. Then there's Ivy, the pirate's daughter whose chest seems to get larger with each new installment of the game while her clothing shrinks.
But what makes Ivy's chest ridiculous while no one bats an eyelash and Misturugi's head-sized biceps? Both are genetic mutants, by any stretch of the imagination, but one is sexual, and the other isn't.
This circles around to the central point I'm trying to make. Men simply are not viewed as sexual objects in games, despite similarly preposterous anatomy.
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Please listen up. We are all being conned by the Obama administration. This year, the American taxpayer will fork over about $571 billion to pay for educating children in the nation's public schools. All told, the country spends close to $16,000 per student every year on primary through college education. That's the highest per-student spending rate in the world.
However, according to President Obama, it's not enough. He wants more tax dollars, especially for "early education." He said so in his State of the Union address, and it drew big-time applause from his crew. Of course we need to spend more on education. And anyone who opposes that hates kids!
The centerpiece of the president's early-education vision is the "Head Start" program, which has been in place since 1965.
Over the past 48 years, the feds have spent close to $200 billion on Head Start. But there's one big problem: The program is not working.
According to a recent study by the Department of Health and Human Services, by the end of third grade, Head Start children remain academically disadvantaged compared to their same-age peers. So why did the president not mention that? Why is he still pounding the drum for more funding for a program that is not cutting it?
The answer is social engineering.
Obama will not say this, but one of his devoted followers, Columbia University professor Joseph Stiglitz, will. What the left really wants is to redistribute income through the public education system.
In a recent New York Times column, Stiglitz called for the following:
• More spending on preschool education.
• More spending on before- and after-class programs.
• More entitlements to ensure that pregnant women are protected from "environmental hazards." That means increased payments to prospective moms for better food, housing and medical care.
And the topper:
• Direct cash payments to parents of poor children who make sure their kids participate in school programs and show up for class. If that ever comes to be, America essentially will be paying parents to parent.
It is all about control. Obama believes the deck in America is stacked against the poor and wants to get lower-income citizens as much cash and as many entitlements as he can. Masking those payments under "more money for education" is a clever way to do that.
It is certainly true that poor children have a much tougher academic road than affluent kids. And smart educational policy can close that gap. Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush told me the reason Head Start is not delivering is that it doesn't concentrate enough on reading. In many school districts, it is primarily a baby-sitting service.
As a former high school teacher and a student in a class of 60 urchins at St. Brigid's grammar school, I know that education is all about discipline and motivation.
Disadvantaged students need extra attention, a stable school environment and enough teacher creativity to stimulate their imaginations. Those things are not expensive.
But that's not all of what federal education spending is about, is it? It's also about redistributing income. We are being conned big time. And it's the kids who suffer the most because of it.
Bill O'Reilly is host of the Fox News show "The O'Reilly Factor" and is an author and columnist.
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I dont know the name of this wolf, but it is about 4 months oldYou can use my photos as long as you follow these rules:1. Give credits that you used my photo2. Send me a note or comment that contains the link to your picture3. Comission rules: [link]Visit me on Dawnthieves now! [link]
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|146 posts found
Originally posted by AlBQuirky
Yeah, definitely. Sometimes it just seems like the expectations of what people want are so high and so specific that people sometimes miss out on some of the good stuff that is out there.
SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!
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Let me see if I got this right...
For example sake only:
Now, let's reverse this:
Is that pretty much the point?
Originally posted by AlBQuirky
No... that's not my point. Why would it not be possible to like a game with or without a LFD system? It's the specificity of the wants that make it nearly impossible to enjoy anything because it is nearly impossible for developers to meet enough of the criteria laid out by someone that wants something so specific.
SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!
Novice Member
Joined: 1/10/08
Simple give every gamer that expects they should have everything for free a lobotomy and restore MMO's to the glory days of the pre WOW era
Otherwise gamer entitlement, and content locusts will continue to ruin every single game that come out...
Respect to all the indy devs who are taking the "screw the masses" road and making niche sub games catering to a smaller group of people who understand the market and do not want loads of F2Pers leeching off them.
I took the one feature you mentioned as an example. Of course it is going to be specific. That does not negate the premise of "shoe on the other foot."
The general feel of MMOs today are what I find lacking. This equates to many, many things working in tandem. No MMO released lately have any kind of longevity for me. I have no vested interest in any character I create. The journey to the end is over before it begins. Once there, there is nothing that interests me.
It is not as "specific" as you are implying. It is much easier and briefer to mention one or two features. I could add a lot more to what I mentioned above. Wouldn't do any good. Some people would probably not even make it to the end of the post.
Truth be told, I don't group enough for a LFD system to matter that much to me. However, how character evolves makes all the difference to me. If you want to say this a "specificity", so be it. It is much more involved, though.
Does a game have to be perfect? Of course not! But there sure is a lot of wiggle room between an MMO being enjoyable and perfect.
PS: This also goes hand in hand to the replies that suggest MMOs with a poster's posted wants in a game. Just because a game has "deep crafting" or is "a sandbox" does not automatically mean that MMO will be enjoyable to that poster.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky
I know you can add a lot more features to the list of things you want and that is precisely the problem. The more that you add to that list, the more difficult it will be for you to find whatever it is you're looking for. On top of that you say that you are looking for a "general feel" and you talk about many things having to work in tandem. You say that how a character evolves is what you care about and you even go on to say that it's very involved.
These things all add up to something very specific that you have created in your head. And because the game gets so specific, it's going to be rare or impossible for a developer to actually meet your needs.
Anyway, I doubt I'm going to convince you of anything. I just think it's tough for those people that are looking for a game to fit them instead of looking to fit into a game.
SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!
Elite Member
Joined: 3/22/09
Great conversation a year ago. However ...
We clearly see what direction mmo development is taking with recent Kickstarter drives and the many sandbox games coming out and in development and the endless forum posts, blogs and even MMORPG staff articles about this subject over the last 2 or more years.
This thread is sort of like deciding to debate what happened to the space shuttle Challenger a year or 2 after the accident when it is already well documented.
You stay sassy!
Advanced Member
Joined: 6/13/06
Seems like most MMO's these days are a camp of NPC in an area with ! above head, you basically do the quests they give you then one quest will lead you to another area with another camp of NPC .
Discovery is dead unless you sway away from the linear questing .
Almost all the quests are solo only so other people are really just annoying because they potentially get in the way of your quest.
You could basically level from 1 to Max level without having a single person on your friends list .
EQ1 did it right in a lot of ways but people whined because it was too hard , instead of looking at the problem they dumbed it down to the discraceful MMO's that we have today .
It is rough, let me tell ya :)
I buy clothes that fit, not ones I can change my body into fitting. I play games for enjoyment, not to try to find out where that enjoyment may be hidden.
I can usually find enjoyment in almost anything I do. It comes down to if that enjoyment is worth the trouble of finding and if it will last long enough to warrant that search.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky
Yeah, but that's not really a good analogy because you CAN find a shirt that fits and you apparently CAN NOT find an MMORPG that fits. And the reason is, at least in my opinion, because you have created a shape that only a very specifically shaped shirt will fit. And I don't really mean you specifically, but everyone that is looking so hard to scratch that itch they got from whatever earlier game they were playing that they liked so much.
And here is where this all started: 'I just want ONE MMORPG that *I* can enjoy like I did "way back when."' Do you know if this is even possible?
SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!
Advanced Member
Joined: 1/16/08
Originally posted by ColumbiaTrue
The problem with the genre today is that they are too much like "GAMES" and not simulated worlds which is what the original MMORPGs were, a 2nd existence which includes all those "boring parts" and "downtime" that all the casuals and mainstream complain about but only a small fraction have ever experienced.
Today we have not MMORPG's but single player games with online components masquerading as MMO's, too much focused on theme park "hand-holding design" and combat and nonexistent "endgame" with the exception of raids that only a segment of the player bases in all MMOs actually want to play still, pretty much leaving out all other options and play styles for other types of players who like crafting, social events-activities, open world pvp, world building, and other features and mechanics that were abandoned years ago in favor of raiding and shoe box instanced pvp and grinding dailies..... where did we go wrong?
The community is nonexistent in MMO's cause there is nothing implemented to help those to foster a community, where bad behavior and trolling is rewarded and no tools to punish those who take advantage of the system, in MMORPG's of the past back when they were 2nd existence, a player who tries to manipulate prices on an exchange or from your shop options were there to ban them from buying your goods or entering your stores or even your town, trolls and ninja looters would be put on blacklists and spread around to well known guilds who to ban from their runs. Now all a troll or just a scumbag in a MMO has to do today is change servers or pay to change their name instead of being stuck with a "bad' reputation.
Convenience, accessibility, and catering to players who playtime spans 1 hr a week has transformed the "simulated worlds" in a simple, single player lobby game all for the sake of the bottom dollar, and what have we gotten as a reward for that "transformation"? A "GAME" ... that people play for 1-3 months before sailing on to the next "game".
I think developers have forgotten what a MMORPG is and forgot that you can be successful if you make good "2nd Life" no where does it say you need to make billions of this stuff you can be niche and make money if it spread on the good word that will grow into something more than you think it would, too many people want to make it big right off the bat ... it doesn't work like that allow for things to grow and flesh out. Thats the problem, the current generation of players want it NOW NOW NOW!!! or they threaten to leave.
The current generation of MMORPGs or MMO's in development are shifting slowly back to that simulated world atmosphere experience, and one in particular is Star Citizen which will be the true definition of what a MMORPG is a "2nd existence".
Elite Member
Joined: 5/09/09
Originally posted by AlBQuirky
That's exactly what a timesink is. Our definition of timesink isn't different, only what constitutes an empty or excessive timesink.
A game is going to occupy players' time, and it's up to that game to decide whether they fill the player's time with interesting decisions or whether they force the player to tolerate empty non-gameplay, or excessive repetition. And those were the primary failings of early MMORPGs, and the reason early MMORPGs were not more successful than they were.
"Joe stated his case logically and passionately, but his perceived effeminate voice only drew big gales of stupid laughter..." -Idiocracy
Elite Member
Joined: 10/10/03
Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac
Well said, perhaps you have given those who never experienced what we are talking about a glimpse of what it was like. Still is to a certain extent if you can find a good guild. But that's not easy these days and those guilds are more putting up with the MMO they are playing than loving it.
Apprentice Member
Joined: 5/12/11
Originally posted by ColumbiaTrue
Plenty of good mmorpg's out there but community ruined it for me thats problem not games it self.
A mmorpg for me can only be fun and last long if community is nice and social and becouse this is not the case anymore i realy dont see how we can ressurect mmorpg genre if community not first change and become as it was 10+ years ago.
I realy dont see this happen so for me nomatter how good a mmoprg is if its occupide by many rotten apples it becomes rotten from inside like a C......
I'll stick to co-op and solo and leave mmo for what it is unless drastic changes in behavior and social skills of community suddely change(i very doub that) i prolly won't play mmo's anymore.
Is it possible? Of course it is. Will it be done? I highly doubt it.
Because of the numbers that play these MMOs now for a couple of months and then leave, I do not see a developer/publisher setting their sights lower (number-wise or a more specific audience) for longevity. It is hard for a business to look away from easy money.
That is big question and wherein lies my "hope." As things look right now, I do not think it will happen.
Advanced Member
Joined: 12/21/07
Originally posted by Scot
nah .. sub MMOs charge you for your fun. The better analogy is that you can pay for one mistress until she is old and unappealing, or go for many prostittutes. If you are going to pay for it ... more variety with no commitment is better.
Apprentice Member
Joined: 3/14/12
Originally posted by Kleptobrainiac
Using sarcasm to bring forward obvious bias and attacks on a 'group' of individual is not same as actually attacking them.
And yes this topic has been recycled many many many times on weekly basis that is why i said 'it is that time of the week again'.
I know you are trying to get one up on me by trying to make it look as if i am in same category as you but sorry my agenda behind posting in this topic has nothing to do with showing my deep rooted hatred against a particular group..in your case which is 'casuals'.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
Novice Member
Joined: 6/23/09
Originally posted by aesperus
I can't say I agree with this.
Even though this genre is called mmoRPGs, most people aren't into role playing.
Basically what you've described is instead of taking someone to an amazing movie that takes you on a wonderful and entertaining journey, you're handing them a stack of blank paper and a pencil and telling them to create their own journey.
That is fine for some people, but many others want to experience an amazing journey and games are supposed to create that. This isn't to be confused with theme park vs sandbox either. A sandbox world can have immense story built into it as well.
The big problem is most newer MMOs seem to be approaching it from "Here are the same rehashed mechanics that the game needs. Here is the latest art to get peoples attention and make for cool trailers. Hey, do we have time to make this an interesting alive deep world that people will have amazing experiences in? Do we have time to create quests/content that is truly engaging and not kill 10 rats or go in dungeon, kill bad guy, bring back item? If not just ship it with the rehashed mechanics and new art. The rest doesn't matter."
Overall that seems to be the biggest problem for most people. The mechanics are enough to get by if you're new to the genre. If you've played a couple of MMOs, the immersion and depth becomes important. Very rarely does an MMO have that level of depth and immersion. You can see this in all of the other threads on here on topics like "How to revitalize MMO quests" and etc. It all points to the content not being engaging and interesting.
It is like wanting something as interesting and deep as Inception, and instead getting another uncreative flashy Fast and Furious movie. The flash will draw in people and make Fast and Furious a profit so it will keep getting made, but after people have seen it they move on and don't give it another thought where as people are talking about Inception for weeks after.
This is why you see every MMO that is released spike up in users at launch and then by the end of the first month they're already down to 2/3rds of that number and by the end of the second month they're down to under half. That is how quickly people get bored and move on. This isn't some small niche group of old gamers, this is often times millions of users that give up on all these games that quickly. That screams volumes about the genre.
Apprentice Member
Joined: 3/14/12
Originally posted by Antiquated
Now you are just reaching and trying too hard. By 'these' people i obviously meant the individuals who are as usual trying to make back handed insults against the 'casual' crowd..in this very topic. Nowhere i tried to give you an impression that i am talking about a larger group outside of this very topic.
When i am talking about posters in this topic it is not generalization because what i said was based on their own posts about the casuals and those who refuse to agree with their idea of what is a 'quality' MMO.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
Hard Core Member
Joined: 7/07/10
As much as I HATE to say it...but its all in the hands of Richard Garriot, who created the first MMO, i.e. Ultima Online, and then got rich and blasted off into space or something and got all caught up in that stuff and abandoned all things PC Games...until recently.
Hopefully, with all the criticism he recently leveled at existing MMOs, he can provide a new and fresh approach...something innovative that breaks the WoW trend.
I do not count on Chris Roberts or Mark Jacobs to do that.
I've never been less hyped for a WoW expansion. Blizzard really needs to prove they can do something other then the whole infinite gear treadmill dance, slowly and painfully introduced.


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He is very arrogant but sadly he is right about Teixeira. He will not be the one to beat Jones.
That must be one of the most stupid statements ever made in sports history.He seems to really not like me and be a big hater of mine. It's sad, considering we're both African-American and there's not many of us in the sport.
Explication is no needed I think.
I wonder if he would say the same thing if he gets paid 10,000 bucks per fight.I don't think money is the key to life, or happiness
He is not making 40 millions per fight but still he is making huge huge amounts of money and basically he can buy anything he wants. In that position it is very easy to say stuff like "Money is not that important, or money is not the key to happiness"


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Mild winter forces ice palace cancellation
Eagle River - A mild winter has forced organizers to cancel construction on a popular ice palace in northern Wisconsin.
The Eagle River Ice Palace is usually built between Christmas and New Year's. However, there have not been enough cold nights to thicken the ice on Silver Lake.
According to the Eagle River Chamber of Commerce's Facebook page, the lake ice needs to be 14 inches thick to cut blocks. But since the ice is only 9 inches, the ice palace has been canceled. »Read Full Article(3)
Scott Skiles out as Bucks coach
A league source confirmed late Monday that Scott Skiles is out as coach of the Milwaukee Bucks after four-plus seasons.
The source said it was mutually agreed between the two parties that Skiles would no longer coach the Bucks, effective immediately.
Jim Boylan will take over as interim coach of the team beginning with Tuesday's home game against Phoenix, the source indicated. »Read Full Blog Post(69)
Despite dairy closing, Milwaukee-area milk deliveries continue
An 83-year-old milk bottling company that suddenly shut down Saturday remained closed Monday with little explanation, threatening school milk supplies and leaving more than 100 employees out of work.
The Golden Guernsey plant in Waukesha was unexpectedly shut down by the California private equity firm that's owned it since September 2011.
Monday, Golden Guernsey President Brad Parks said he was waiting to hear whether OpenGate Capital, based in Los Angeles, would reopen the plant. »Read Full Article(70)
Minneapolis mayor pays off bet with Green Bay mayor
Minneapolis Mayor R.T. Rybak has paid off his friendly wager with Green Bay Mayor Jim Schmitt over Saturday's playoff game between the Vikings and the Packers.
Green Bay beat Minnesota, so Rybak sent Schmitt sausages from Minneapolis restaurant Butcher and the Boar.
Schmitt had wagered Green Bay cheese, root beer and candy if the Packers lost.
In a news release, Rybak said, "We lost fair and square, so we're sending the sausages."
Wisconsin bowhunter shoots state record archery buck
A white-tailed deer shot Nov. 6 by bowhunter Dusty Gerrits of Waupun has established a Wisconsin record for a typical archery buck.
The rack was measured Sunday by a panel of certified scorers at 189 3/8 inches.
The deer was shot in Fond du Lac County. It has 12 points and two "stickers." The gross score is 200 1/8 inches. »Read Full Blog Post(58)
Specialist led transformation of Children's Hospital
Starkey D. Davis, a pediatric infectious disease specialist who oversaw the transformation of Children's Hospital from an aging downtown hospital to a nationally recognized academic institution, died Dec. 27 at a Wauwatosa hospice of heart disease. He was 81.
"He loved children. He was always interested in curing children. I think that sums it up," said his wife, Kathryn.
As head of the hospital, Davis pushed to have it moved to its current site as part of the Regional Medical Center in Wauwatosa. Under Davis, the new Children's Hospital developed one of the first pediatric HIV-AIDS programs in the country, expanded its pediatric ICU and neonatal ICU units and a variety of subspecialties. »Read Full Article
Handgun used in robbery found in Sikh Temple lot
A handgun allegedly used in an armed robbery was found in the parking lot of the Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, where six temple members were shot to death in August, police said Monday.
According to Oak Creek police, a vehicle believed used in the robbery Saturday evening in the 800 block of Lakewood Ave. was pulled over in the 7500 block of S. Howell Ave.
Two people inside the car fled on foot but were soon apprehended, and the gun was later recovered from the nearby parking lot, police said.
The shootings at the temple Aug. 5 also wounded four people, including an Oak Creek police lieutenant, before the gunman, Wade Michael Page, fatally shot himself after being shot by an Oak Creek police officer.
Mining bill coming by next week, GOP leader says
Madison - Sweeping mining legislation will be revealed to the public by early next week and could pass the state Senate by as early as March, the Legislature's new leaders said Monday, triggering flat opposition from the leader of one key American Indian tribe.
That news came as lawmakers began their next two-year session in the state Capitol on Monday with Republicans regaining control of the Senate and increasing their majority in the Assembly.
In addition to reducing rules for opening mines in the state, the Legislature's GOP leaders said their agenda includes measures to cut other regulations on businesses, reduce the income tax and reform schools. Republicans say that will create jobs, but Democrats say they're wary that the economic priorities will be overshadowed by divisive bills on voting rules and social issues such as abortion. »Read Full Article(357)
Kenosha seeks help in finding missing woman
Kenosha police asked for the public's help Monday in finding a woman who has not been seen by her family since early Dec. 29.
Christina Guild, 19, is described as white, five feet, eight inches tall and weighing 150 pounds. She was wearing gray sweatpants and a black jacket and has a noticeable limp in her right leg.
Anyone having contact with her is asked to call police.
Lawyer who embezzled $737,000 avoids prison
A former lawyer from Bayside who embezzled more than $737,000 from his law firm avoided prison Monday after the judge said he would take a chance on Brian Mularski paying further restitution in the case.
Milwaukee County Circuit Judge David Hansher ignored a prosecutor's recommendation of two years' confinement and instead ordered Mularski, 37, to spend a year in local jail with generous work release privileges, as a condition of five years' probation. He also imposed and stayed a five-year prison sentence, which Mularski would face if he fails to meet conditions, or commits another crime.
Hansher seemed duly impressed that Mularski has paid about $238,000 from his own earnings and a family loan. »Read Full Article(57)
Schools scramble for milk supplies
Milwaukee-area schools that relied on Golden Guernsey milk for lunch or breakfast programs were still being lined up with new suppliers as of Monday afternoon.
Saturday's sudden closing of the dairy processing plant in Waukesha that supplied milk to more than 350 schools in 40 Wisconsin districts caused a flurry of activity over the weekend and Monday as school staff took inventory of their milk stock and worked to line up contracts with new providers, such as Kemps.
A long-standing element of school-provided lunches, the classic half-pint carton of milk is also important for schools that participate in the National School Lunch Program. That program only offers subsidies to districts following federal meal guidelines, which call for the inclusion of milk. »Read Full Article(51)
Advocacy group gives Wisconsin D+ on education reform
A national education-reform organization headed by Washington, D.C.'s controversial former schools chancellor has awarded Wisconsin a D+ for policies aimed at improving outcomes in public schooling.
The national policy report card was issued Monday by StudentsFirst, a group that advocates for reshaping education by adopting controversial practices often not supported by teachers unions, such as radically reshaping teacher tenure, establishing more public charter schools where teachers are often not unionized and can work longer hours, and relying on student test scores to evaluate teachers.
Michelle Rhee, the head of StudentsFirst, pushed for some of those same practices during her tenure in D.C. »Read Full Blog Post(32)
Milwaukee man charged in Brown Deer stabbing
A 22-year-old Milwaukee man has been charged with attempted first-degree intentional homicide on allegations that he stabbed a 19-year-old woman multiple times in a domestic-violence related incident in Brown Deer.
Officers were dispatched to a home in the 4400 block of W. Dean Road about 8:15 a.m. Wednesday for a noise complaint because people were yelling, Brown Deer said in a news release Monday.
The call was later updated to a rescue call for a person who had passed out. When officers arrived, they found a female victim who had been stabbed multiple times. »Read Full Article
Muskego man to plead guilty to insurance theft
A former insurance agent who continued to do business after he lost his license has agreed to plead guilty in federal court to stealing about $230,000 from two insurance companies, according to court documents.
Daniel F. Morrissey, 47, of Muskego managed Morrissey Agency in Brookfield until Sept. 29, 2010, when police searched the office. Six months earlier, Morrissey had agreed to the revocation of his license and not to engage in the insurance business.
Morrissey admitted in the plea agreement, which he signed late last month, that he billed members of the Wisconsin Group Insurance Trust, which provided insurance to professionals such as doctors, lawyers and accountants. Morrissey collected premiums for life insurance after the policy was canceled. »Read Full Article(1)
Regulators close church-affiliated credit union
The New Covenant Missionary Baptist Church Credit Union in Milwaukee was closed by regulators Monday after it was deemed to be in "an unsafe and unsound" financial condition.
The credit union, which has 294 members and assets of about $585,000, had no prospect of being restored to viability, according to the Wisconsin Department of Financial Institutions and the National Credit Union Administration, which are liquidating the tiny credit union.
The credit union, which served members of New Covenant Missionary Baptist Church, had lost about $50,000 through the first nine months of 2012, according to the most recent data available from the NCUA. As of Sept. 30, NCUA records show, almost 20% of its total loans were delinquent. »Read Full Article
Man charged in Grafton heroin death
A 24-year-old Milwaukee man was charged Monday with first-degree reckless homicide, accused of selling heroin to a 24-year-old Grafton man who overdosed.
A friend had last seen Riley Knapp late in the afternoon on Wednesday and went to check on him on the next morning. He found Knapp dead in the basement of his Grafton home. Investigators determined he died from an overdose and went through the text messages on his cellphone, which showed he had purchased heroin from a drug dealer.
Grafton Police and the Ozaukee County Sheriff's Drug Task Force initiated a joint investigation and undercover officers were able to arrange a meeting with the drug dealer they suspected had sold the heroin to Knapp, Joshua J. Gray of Milwaukee. »Read Full Article
Report advises contaminated properties get Jackson water
Town of Jackson - Town properties with private wells contaminated by a July gasoline pipeline break and their immediate neighbors would be connected to the Village of Jackson municipal water system by the end of this year, under a pipeline consultant's recommendation made public Monday.
The consultant, Arcadis U.S. Inc., concluded that extending municipal water from the village would provide an estimated 36 families in the town with a reliable long-term supply of clean water and give the town sufficient capacity to connect additional properties if gasoline contamination spreads to more private wells.
The state Department of Natural Resources had ordered pipeline owner, West Shore Pipe Line Co. of Illinois, and Arcadis to complete the feasibility study by Jan. 4. »Read Full Article(5)
Many doctors prescribe costlier drugs than needed, study finds
More than a third of doctors said they prescribe brand name drugs simply because patients ask for them even when cheaper generics would be appropriate, according to a new study.
The practice, which can contribute to higher health care costs, was found to be more likely among doctors who received free drug samples or free food from drug companies or who had financial relationships with drug companies.
"It is a classic measure of waste in medicine," said lead author Eric Campbell, an associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School. »Read Full Article(46)
10 fishermen rescued from ice on Green Bay
Ten fishermen were rescued Monday morning after being stranded on ice miles out in Green Bay when the ice shelf they walked out on broke free and drifted away from the shore, according to authorities.
High winds blew the ice shelf away from the shore of Bay Shore Park in New Franken, where the men had walked out. Four fishermen managed to get to shore while 10 remained.
One of the fishermen called the Brown County Sheriff's Department at 9:23 a.m. Monday, saying a group had become stuck on ice floes and needed rescue, according to the Sheriff's Department. »Read Full Article(17)
Muskego police arrest four suspected in car thefts
Muskego police are asking residents who had items stolen from their vehicles over the weekend to contact the department.
Officers arrested four people early Saturday on allegations of stealing from a vehicle in the Meadow Drive area north of Janesville Road and east of Lannon Drive.
"We recovered several items from the thieves which were clearly stolen from other vehicles," police said in a news release Monday. "However, we have no other reports of thefts from the area." »Read Full Article
UWM student is new Miss Milwaukee
For the second year in a row, a University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee student has won the title of Miss Milwaukee.
Judges on Sunday night selected classical vocalist Kiersten Anne Gonzales of Pleasant Prairie as Miss Milwaukee 2013 at the Marian Center for Non-Profits, 3195 S. Superior St.
Gonzales, 20, was crowned by outgoing titleholder Stephanie Marie Obst, 23, of Saint Francis. Gonzales is a junior communications major and the daughter of Anthony and Lee Gonzales. »Read Full Article(4)
Sojourner names new associate director
Mark Thomas, who has held positions with newspapers, the Boys &Girls Clubs of Greater Milwaukee and the State of Wisconsin, was named Monday as associate director of the Sojourner Family Peace Center.
Thomas is the former president of the board of the Task Force on Family Violence.
Under the direction of Carmen Pitre, the executive director of the center, Thomas will share responsibility for overall planning, management and the execution of the mission of the center, according to the announcement. The shelter provides assistance to battered women and their families. »Read Full Article(3)
Police arrest three in two separate Waukesha robberies
Waukesha police have arrested three men in two separate armed robberies in December - one at GameStop and the other at Associated Bank.
Billy P. Hodges, 23, of Waukesha has been charged with two felony counts of armed robbery with threat of force accusing of robbing the GameStop, 1210 W. Sunset Drive, shortly after 8:30 p.m. Dec. 21, police said Monday.
According to a police news release, Hodges entered the store, displayed a handgun and demanded money. He fled after obtaining an undisclosed amount of money. »Read Full Article(2)
David Towers resigns as Waukesha West High School principal
Citing "personal reasons," David Towers, principal of Waukesha West High School, resigned Friday.
Waukesha School District Superintendent Todd Gray informed parents of Towers' sudden departure by letter.
"We regret that we do not have any other information to share with you at this time," Gray said. »Read Full Article
Woman arrested on warrant charge after calling 911 to complain about treatment at store
A 26-year-old Milwaukee woman who called 911 to complain about the treatment she received at a store was instead arrested for two outstanding warrants.
According to the Brown Deer police report:
The woman was arrested on after she called 911 to complain that a store would not give her credit for returns at Old Navy, 9094 N. Green Bay Road, at 11:30 a.m. Dec. 24. »Read Full Article(11)
Scholarships go to first students in flex degree program
A new flexible-option degree program through the University of Wisconsin System is offering full scholarships to the first 100 people who enroll in pilot courses now accepting students.
The flexible option, announced in November by UW System President Kevin Reilly and UW Extension leaders, is a more accessible and affordable way for working adults to reach education and career goals.
Students can try the new learning model and earn college credit at no cost by participating in the pilot. The pilot is administered by the UW Extension Independent Learning Program. »Read Full Article(5)
Court tosses inmate's lawsuit over jail voting
It must have been the excitement of the approaching presidential election that prompted Antonio L. Bell to sue Milwaukee County Sheriff David A. Clarke Jr. back in August.
Bell, an inmate at the county's jail, claimed in his handwritten federal court complaint that jail officials were making it difficult for him and other inmates who had yet to be convicted of felonies to cast ballots.
But according to Clarke, Bell never voted before when he wasn't in jail. »Read Full Blog Post(7)
Illinois to vote on licenses for illegal immigrant drivers
Illinois lawmakers are poised to vote on a measure that would allow illegal immigrant drivers to get special driver's licenses, according to the Chicago Tribune.
There are an estimated 250,000 illegal immigrants in Illinois, according to the Tribune report. Under current Illinois law, those immigrants can't get licenses because no one without a Social Security number or other documentation can receive one. Such drivers also have trouble getting insurance.
Supporters note the special licenses can't be used for other identification purposes. But opponents argue the licenses argue the licenses don't require proper homeland security safeguards, according to the Chicago Sun-Times.
Legislative leaders expect the vote to be close. (19)
What role did 'citizen's arrest' play in death of West Allis youth?
West Allis's acting police chief has said customers at a convenience store made a "citizen's arrest" of 16-year-old suspected of trying to shoplift alcohol last month.
That teen, Corey Stingley, wasn't breathing when police arrived, and he died about two weeks later, when he was taken off life support. »Read Full Blog Post(19)
Got milk? Elmbrook School District says its supply is stable despite Golden Guernsey closing
Grocery stores aren't the only ones searching for milk after the sudden Golden Guernsey plant closing.
Elmbrook School District is working to secure a temporary milk supplier for its schools after the Waukesha plant closed unexpectedly Saturday.
Cheryl Piel, head of food service for the school district, said Elmbrook schools have enough milk to last through tomorrow, with plans for a temporary supplier already in the works. »Read Full Article
Wave game time changed to accommodate Packers fans
To accommodate fans of the Green Bay Packers, the Milwaukee Wave has moved its game Saturday against Baltimore from 6 p.m. to 4 p.m.
Green Bay's playoff game at San Francisco starts at 7 that night. (1)
Oshkosh ends 'poison pill' after Icahn drops bid
Oshkosh - A month after activist investor Carl Icahn gave up his bid for Oshkosh Corp., the truck maker is ending a shareholder rights plan early.
The "poison pill," announced this past October to ward off hostile takeover attempts, was set to end in October 2013. Instead, it will expire Monday after the close of trading.
Ichan abandoned his effort to take over Oshkosh in early December after less than 25% of the company's shares were tendered before his offer expired. His bid had valued Oshkosh at about $3 billion.
Oshkosh had rejected his offer as inadequate. To head off Icahn, who is known for buying stakes in struggling companies and shaking them up, the Oshkosh-based company in late October enacted a shareholder rights plan known as a "poison pill" that would have taken effect if one person or group acquired 10% or more of Oshkosh's stock. Such a move is generally taken by a company to block a hostile takeover attempt.
'Master thief' and partner arrested for theft at Bayshore
A self-proclaimed master thief and her partner were arrested for theft at Bayshore Town Center in Glendale after an employee noticed glasses missing from the store.
According to the Glendale police report:
The man and woman, both 18 of Milwaukee, were arrested for theft at Sunglass Hut, 490 W. Northshore Drive, at 3:45 p.m. Dec. 28. An employee said they seemed to be "enthusiastic" to buy glasses and when she noticed some pairs missing from a display, she approached them but they fled the store. »Read Full Article(16)
Follow Packers coverage on Facebook, win an iPad mini
Primed to follow our coverage as the Green Bay Packers head to San Francisco? If you follow the coverage on Facebook, you could get the chance to win an iPad mini.
Follow one or all of the Journal Sentinel's main Facebook pages and fill out a simple form for a chance to win an iPad mini. Using Facebook's "share" button to spread the word among your Facebook friends about the contest gives you more opportunities to win.
You can choose to follow Packers coverage and other stories from Wisconsin's largest sports reporting staff. You also can keep up with local news, track the latest business news or follow information on local entertainment through other Journal Sentinel Facebook accounts.
The giveaway runs through Jan. 31, so spread the word.
Ryan sets sights on budget battle, not presidential bid
U.S. Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) did not necessarily return to the House to start building a presidential campaign after losing his vice presidential bid, according to an article in the New York Times. Instead, he is interested in continuing to mix things up as one of his party's leading voices on budget matters.
The Times says Ryan is interested in forging an even tighter bond with House Speaker John Boehner as the battle over the nation's debt continues, starting in the coming weeks with a debate over whether to authorize raising the government's borrowing limit and how to avoid deep, across-the-board spending cuts. (29)
Milwaukee named top American art city
Milwaukee was named one of America's top 12 "ArtPlaces" today by ArtPlace, a public-private coalition of major foundations and the National Endowment for the Arts.
The 12 communities were identified as having successfully combined the arts, artists and venues along with independent businesses, restaurants and a walkable lifestyle to create more vibrant neighborhoods. In each place, a particular neighborhood area was defined.
The winning communities are:
Los Angeles
Miami Beach
New York
Oakland, Calif.
Portland, Ore.
San Francisco
Washington, D.C.
ArtPlace provides placemaking grants for locally initiated projects in cities across the country, including in some communities named the most vibrant and art-centric in the nation today. One of its goals is to spark revitalization and economic development through innovation and the arts.
Milwaukee's Greater Milwaukee Committee received a $500,000 grant to expand southeastern Wisconsin's design and technology sector in 2011. It used the funds to launch MiKE, which works to develop high-tech talent for design and technology start-ups and to connect them with local business.
For related coverage, read my year-end column about Milwaukee's art scene in 2012 and a major article from last year about Milwaukee's indigenous avant-garde. For more information about the criteria used, see our article in the Journal Sentinel Tuesday. For more information about ArtPlace go to artplaceamerica.org. (28)
Spring Bank moving to larger Brookfield location
Spring Bank has signed a lease for a larger location in Brookfield.
Spring Bank plans to move by March 31 to 16620 W. Blue Mound Road, where it will lease 7,500 square feet from Cornicione Development LLC, the bank announced Monday. Brokers Tim Janusz, and Scott Satula, of NAI MLG Commercial, represented Spring Bank.
Spring Bank now operates in 4,500 square feet at 16655 W. Wisconsin Ave., Brookfield.
"Our move to larger, more conveniently located space and our successful 2012 capital campaign that increased our capital by nearly 30 percent solidly positions us to meet the business and personal banking needs of our current and future customers," said David Schuelke, bank president and CEO, in a statement.
Indian Motorcycle to display its 2013 lineup at winter bike shows
Indian Motorcycle said Monday it will display its 2013 lineup at the International Motorcycle Show in Minneapolis Jan. 11-13 and at the same traveling event in Chicago Feb. 8-10.
The lineup includes the recently announced Chief Vintage Final Edition, which commemorates the era of Indian bikes that were last built in Kings Mountain, N.C.
Here's a link to photos of the Chief Vintage Final Edition, that sells for $37,599.
Here's a link to the International Motorcycle Show schedules for Minneapolis and Chicago. (3)
Fava Tea opening Brookfield location
Appleton-based Fava Tea Co. will open a Brookfield store, the company announced Monday.
It will be at The Plaza shopping center, at the southeast corner of W. Bluemound and N. Calhoun Roads, formerly known as V. Richards Plaza. An exact date hasn't yet been set, but a mid-February opening is planned.
It will be the first Fava Tea opening as a franchise, under Fava World Franchising LLC; and one of many additional franchises planned for 2013, according to a company statement.
Fava also has stores in Appleton and Greenfield, at 5012 S. 74th St., in Greenfield Shopping Center. (1)
Milwaukee police investigating co-sleeping death of infant
A 7-day-old boy died in an apartment on Milwaukee's northwest side overnight after sleeping with his mother on a couch, officials said Monday.
Milwaukee police are investigating the death of the infant, who was pronounced dead about 4:30 a.m. Monday in an apartment in the 4000 block of N. 61st St.
An autopsy is scheduled for Monday or Tuesday, the Milwaukee County medical examiner's office said.
Milwaukee police Sgt. Mark Stanmeyer said in a news release that detectives are in the early stages of the investigation and that police expect to release more details as they become available.
Ald. Coggs wants advisory referendum on same-day voting
Ald. Milele Coggs wants an advisory referendum asking Milwaukee voters whether the state of Wisconsin should continue to allow citizens to register to vote at the polls on election day.
Coggs' proposal will be heard Monday afternoon before the Common Council's Judiciary and Legislation Committee.
As proposed, Coggs' resolution would ask the following question of Milwaukee voters: "Should the state of Wisconsin continue to permit citizens to register to vote at the polls on Election Day?" »Read Full Blog Post(67)
Brookfield to rezone site for commercial development
Brookfield officials are seeking to rezone a city-owned parcel to allow for commercial development.
The property is at 1000 S. Moorland Road, where the former Fire Station No. 3 sits, according to a BrookfieldNow.com article by reporter Shakara Robinson. (2)
On Tap for Today: Lunch, beer and stories for children
It's back to the routine. Not that the routine is bad. After the excitement of the holidays served with a side of sports, routine is a good thing.
Well, it is if it's presented correctly. And by correctly, we mean routine accompanied by a little something to take the edge off -- a good story, a creative outlet or a simple beer tasting.
The Underground Collaborative Creative turns lunchtime into art time with Art + Lunch/Watercolor Mondays. The three-week series begins today with bobby pins and watercolors. »Read Full Blog Post(2)
Forecast: A quiet, warm week ahead
A quiet weather pattern will dominate the Milwaukee area early this week, with temperatures reaching near 40 over the next couple of days and the mid-40s by late in the week, according to WTMJ-TV (Channel 4) meteorologist Scott Steele.
There is a potential for rain later in the week, Steele says.
To view Steele's complete forecast, got to www.stormteam4.com.


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BRB10057 In Stock
This lovely sterling silver bali bangle bracelet is made of durable, yet flexible silver that allows you not to have to pry it apart to get it onto your hand! Simply push the two ends in opposite directions (up and down, versus outwards) to spring the bracelet wide enough apart to slip over your wrist. The twisted rope design that adorn both ends are typical of the bali design, and what make this bracelet lovely and unique. Wear this alone, or with other bali style pieces for a look that will be envied.
Eve's Addiction.com wants you to be a happy customer. We want you to be completely satisfied with the sterling silver jewelry that you receive from us, as we only sell high quality silver and cubic zirconia cz jewelry. We do understand that you may not like your purchase for some reason.
You may return or exchange your jewelry within 60 days of purchase if you are not satisfied with it. The jewelry must be returned in its original condition for a refund or exchange. Engraved, personalized, photo, monogram, name and initial, chocolate and clearance items are not returnable or exchangeable.


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Wii Video Games Now Available to Check Out with your West Caldwell library card. Click here to Download the flyer.
Story Time & Library Stars Schedule Fall 2012
Please contact the Youth Services Desk at 973-226-5441 to register for story time programs.
Fall series programs start Monday, September 10th and end Wednsday, November 28th.
There will be no programs the week of Thanksgiving.
Fun Time, Story Time
For children ages 3 - 5
Wednesdays @ 1:30PM
Thursdays @ 10:30AM
Library Stars
For children grades K - 2
Select Mondays at 4:00 PM
September 10th & 24th
October 8th, & 22nd
November 5th & 26th
Rhyme Time Story Time
For children ages birth - 3 with a caregiver
Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday 10:30AM


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Watch artist Joseph Linaschke explain the creation of his gallery hanging of large black-and-white prints on metal and discuss the many challenges he faced along the way.
Use the Nik plugins to add complex, unique flavors to your images.
"lynda.com has made it possible and affordable to retool and get back to work after raising my kids. I can't imagine working without this resource now." —Maureen C.
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Lady Lara Looks to Remain Perfect in U.S. With Bid for Mrs. Revere
After taking her U.S. debut in the $200,000 Pebbles at Belmont Park, Swettenham Stud's Lady Lara-IRE will try to keep her stateside unbeaten streak alive in Saturday's $200,000-added Mrs. Revere (GII) at Churchill Downs.
Outstanding Students in Churchill Downs Governor's Scholars 'Class of 2014' Honored at Reception
Churchill Downs Racetrack ("CDRT") welcomed 29 outstanding high school seniors to the historic home of the Kentucky Derby on Thursday, Nov. 13 to recognize the accomplishments of those students as members of the "Class of 2014" of Churchill Downs Governor's Scholars ("CDGS") program.
Jockey Robby Albarado Finally Celebrates 1,000th Career Win at Churchill Downs
Jockey Robby Albarado had to wait a few days but the 41-year-old rider was finally able to celebrate his 1,000th career victory at Churchill Downs after guiding the Pat Dupuy-trained Red Maserati to a one-length triumph in Thursday's third race.
Sparkling Review Hopes to Extend Win Streak in Saturday's Grade II Mrs. Revere
Fresh off an impressive 2 ¾-length victory in the Oct. 17 Valley View (Grade III) at Keeneland, Beverly Anderson and Edward Seltzer's Sparkling Review will put her three-race winning streak on the line in Saturday's $200,000-added Mrs. Revere (GII) at Churchill Downs.
History-Making, Two-Time Kentucky Oaks Winner Rosie Napravnik To Be Honored by Churchill Downs on Saturday
Recently retired jockey Rosie Napravnik, who made history at Churchill Downs by becoming the first and only female rider in the 140-year history of the track to win the $1 million Longines Kentucky Oaks (Grade I), will be honored for her career accomplishments in a special ceremony scheduled on Saturday, Nov. 15.
Grade I Winner Personal Diary Tops Overflow Field of 18 3-Year-Old Turf Fillies for Grade II Mrs. Revere
The growing popularity of Churchill Downs' $200,000-added Mrs.
Heart To Heart Heads Field of 13 Turf 3-Year-Olds in Commonwealth Turf
Heart to Heart, runaway winner of back-to-back turf stakes including a four-length romp in the $110,000 Jefferson Cup (Grade III) during the September Meet, headlines a field of 13 three-year-olds entered for Saturday's 11th running of the $100,000-added Commonwealth Turf (GIII) at Churchill Downs.
Testa Rossi Faces Strong, Accomplished Field In Comeback in Grade II Mrs. Revere
After sustaining a minor injury from her fourth-place performance in the April 5 Ashland (Grade I) at Keeneland, multiple graded stakes winner Testa Rossi-FR will make her return to the races against an overflow field of 14 3-year-old fillies in Saturday's $200,000-added Mrs. Revere (GII) at Churchill Downs.
Churchill Downs Announces Dates for Kentucky Derby Future Wager
Churchill Downs Racetrack has established dates for this year's Kentucky Derby Future Wager (KDFW), and for the second consecutive year four wagering pools will be featured.
Future Wager dates for the 141st running of the Kentucky Derby Presented by Yum! Brands (Grade I) will be:
Dogwood's Miss Frost, Now in Howard Barn, Aims for Grade II Mrs. Revere
After finishing eighth in Keeneland's $150,000 Valley View (Grade III) on Oct. 17, Dogwood Stable moved their 3-year-old filly Miss Frost to the barn of trainer Neil Howard with hopes of entering her in Saturday's $200,000-added Miss Revere (GII) at Churchill Downs.
Villandry Breaks Through With Powerful Romp in River City
Gainesway Stable's 5-year-old gelding Villandry took the lead from front-running favorite Silver Max at the top of the stretch and powered home to win Saturday's 37th running of the $114,000 River City Handicap (Grade III) at Churchill Downs by 2 ¾ lengths over longshot Hamp.
Kiss Moon Bids for First Graded Stakes Victory in Mrs. Revere
Coming off a gate-to-wire victory in the $103,800 TaWee at Indiana Grand, Carl Pollard's Kiss Moon will enter next Saturday's $200,000-added Mrs. Revere (Grade II) at Churchill Downs seeking her first graded stakes win.
Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies Winner Take Charge Brandi 'Possible' for Grade II Golden Rod
Romans Hopes to Go the Distance With Strong Duo in Saturday's River City Handicap
Trainer Dale Romans will saddle the morning line favorite and co-second choice in Saturday's $100,000-added River City Handicap (Grade III) at Churchill Downs with Silver Max (7-5) and Guys Reward (5-1).
Grade I Winner Silver Max, 'Horse for Course' Guys Reward Give Romans Strong 1-2 Punch in River City
Churchill Downs' final stakes race for older horses on turf in 2014 attracted a field of 11 horses, but it's the Dale Romans' trained duo of Grade I-winning millionaire Silver Max and "horse for the course" stablemate Guys Reward that figure to draw most of the pre-race attention in Saturday's 37th running of the...
Ramseys Capture Milestone 400th Churchill Downs Victory
Owners Ken and Sarah Ramsey won their unprecedented 400th career race at Churchill Downs on Wednesday when 3-year-old gelding Sandbar prevailed in the second race.
Molly Morgan Exits Chilukki in Good Order; Points to Fall City Handicap
Bill Cubbedge's Molly Morgan, who collected her third graded stakes win of the year on Saturday with a 2 ¼-length victory in the $237,510 Chilukki (Grade II), exited the one-mile race for fillies and mares in good order and will be pointed to the $200,000-added Falls City Handicap (GII) on Thanksgiving Day, according to Dale Romans' chief assis
Molly Morgan Shines Under The Lights in Churchill Downs' Grade II Chilukki
Bill Cubbedge's multiple graded stakes winner Molly Morgan shined again under the lights at Churchill Downs with a 2 ¼-length romp over Street Girl in Saturday's 29th running of the $237,510 Chilukki (Grade II) for fillies and mares.
Grade I Winner Personal Diary Heads 49 Nominations to Grade II Mrs. Revere
G. Watts Humphrey Jr. and St. George Farm Racing LLC's Grade I winner Personal Diary headlines a cast of 49 3-year-old fillies nominated to the $200,000-added Mrs. Revere (Grade II) at Churchill Downs on Saturday, Nov. 15.
Santana Confident in His Pair of Saturday Breeders' Cup Runners
Jockey Ricardo Santana Jr. will be on a plane shortly after Friday's Churchill Downs race card, headed to Santa Anita Park where he will ride in his second Breeders' Cup World Championships on Saturday.


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RG10576 In Stock
This Golden Sun Solar Eclipse Secret Message Band is one of our newest pieces and sure to be a favorite! This amazing ring features two bands, one that is precision cut to fit perfectly inside the the outer ring. The inside ring swivels and turns, allowing it to double as a spinner ring. This rotating eclipse ring is made of high quality stainless steel, and has a matte gold plated inner band, with a polished gold plated steel outer ring to add interesting contrast.
Eve's Addiction.com wants you to be a happy customer. We want you to be completely satisfied with the sterling silver jewelry that you receive from us, as we only sell high quality silver and cubic zirconia cz jewelry. We do understand that you may not like your purchase for some reason.
You may return or exchange your jewelry within 60 days of purchase if you are not satisfied with it. The jewelry must be returned in its original condition for a refund or exchange. Engraved, personalized, photo, monogram, name and initial, chocolate and clearance items are not returnable or exchangeable.