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Originally posted by ktanner3Originally posted by Skuall
Yup... neither one looks overly impressive on paper. I wouldn't pay $40 for an expansion though. .. but DDO on the other hand had pne for $80 and it sold well enough that they launched on Steam just a few weeks later.
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Originally posted by Pongo_Originally posted by Souldrainer
In Cata,thye removed the zoning and phasing that was there for 6+ years. And yes, Hoth and Belsavis are bigger. It has been tested. Maybe you are emotionally tied to Warcraft?
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Novice Member
Joined: 7/30/12
Originally posted by Souldrainer
I recall Vanilla WoW having 2 continents. Other then the ocean, you could walk from one wnd to the other seamlessly. In SWTOR, I rember a bunch of tedious steps to get between planets of varrying sizes; the larger ones having a lot of exhaustion zones.
Bioware Austin knew they launched early and they were losing a lot of subs. Bioware wanted to attempt to rectify the situation by vastly increasing the rate, ammount, and quality of content. EA stepped in, did 2 huge rounds of layoffs, and kept the remaining subscribbers waiting for content announced in June of 2012.
SWTO is not "every" MMO, its atypical in many ways.
JUst to be mean spirited, I'll point out that in WoW you didn't have to walk, you could ride a fully animated animal mount which did travel much faster then the static speeders. (The onlly animation on the speeders is pretty much your cloak clipping through the bottom of the speeder.)
Also, although not a fan of the game mechanic, WoW did allow flying mounts, since the world wasn't made up of unreachable mountain painting backdrops, marking the end of the game corridors.
*I''ll save you the trouble, WoW didn't have flying mounts till 2007 and no flying mounts in the Vanilla till 2010. Why should a sci-fi MMO in 2013 have flying vehicles?
**I'll save someone else th etrouble, SWG had the JTL in 2004 and atmospheric flight in 2011, SWTOR has Starfox.
***I now regret have been mean spirited, it just starts the usual bullshit.
****MOre bullshit: You could try and swim from continent to continent in WoW, not so much in SWTOR, for various reasons.
Originally posted by tiefighter25
yup,,they simply had no more room for the insane profits from swtor
and you can clearly see on the picture, that he is happy with that decision
lets see if the new one will do better
when power shifts like this happen, big changes usually follow soon after
Originally posted by Sibcoe
Im sorry but im am sketical bout your link after all it is linked to Youtu.be which is not even a USA link nor a official youtube link it is of course from Belgium. It may or may not be safe to click on. I honestly dont know. I am just wondering why it is what it is and not a official youtube link?
Originally posted by Souldrainer
link to the test please?
i guess it would take a couple of hours to run each of the continents in wow,,add the smaller islands to that
that would prolly make belsavis and hoth the biggest zones in any mmo
Originally posted by Souldrainer
heh,,my jiggly elven boob will beat your buggy lightsabre any day
tera is so small and so cheap, they could keep it running with only a handful of aficionados
and they still have TWO hand fulls,,at least in europe
i dont know how its doing back in asia
Hard Core Member
Joined: 4/19/08
Originally posted by Sibcoe
First: I NEVER PLAY AND NEVER WILL F2P GAMES. Period. They are destroyer of quality. Another period.
But is natural ... if one have restaurant full of cheap people eating all for free, bad manners included, ... by by quality food.
But I find acceptable (sometimes barely) to play such games when they have also SUB. And where "f2p" is actually intended as kind of eternal trial.
And just subbed back to swtor 2 days ago and I see in all areas always pretty a lot of players. So much that is problem doing own questing many times.
And still - despite haters - game is when last checked 2nd only to wow for sub numbers. Yes, yes, ... far behind ... as any other game.
Love it, never enjoyed so much any game with exception of wow. And love also a lot gw2.
Hard Core Member
Joined: 11/15/09
The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.
Originally posted by daltanious
you can't say 'period' then keep talking...:)
it's oxymoronic.
Novice Member
Joined: 11/10/12
Originally posted by Isturi
:´-D priceless
it´s an official youtube abbrevation, and no it´s not a website in Belgium :D
Yeah everything which appears to be outside of the US is highly dangerous, better watch out!
Secrets of Dragon´s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
Apprentice Member
Joined: 5/08/06
Originally posted by Souldrainer
lol i simply used the example you stated. i am not here to champion, or defend WOW in any way. blizzard has around 9 million people supporting that game they don't need me.
you on the otherhand seem very touchy about SWTOR for some unknown reason. it's a game, relax.
Apprentice Member
Joined: 1/21/12
Originally posted by Pongo_
true :)
Novice Member
Joined: 1/15/13
It would be nice to see more solid numbers regarding subscription numbers and retention numbers and stuff like that since F2P came out. I'll have to check out x-fire's site if it has some answers about it, as solid numbers would give a good indication of whether F2P is successful. However, I will say that the server I am on has never been empty during peak times.
Elite Member
Joined: 1/17/07
On the whole xpac debate: it is content that matters not landmass. Whether a game is sub based or F2P people will only stick around if they have something they want to do. And the more options there are - quests, PvP, crafting, exploration - whatever - the more likely they are to stick around.
Now the big news is not simply JR resigning it is why he resigned: "it currently looks like we will come in at the low end of, or slightly below, the financial guidance we issued in January,"
A profit warning. They have sold less than expected only 2 months ago. They will report lower profits or more likely a bigger loss than expected. Doesn't mean that SWTOR has brought in less than expected but it suggests it hasn't been a runaway success.
Unless he simply decided he had had enough it also suggests that things are bad in many areas and that the underlying trends are not good.
And that means a greater focus on cost control across the company with the new CEO coming in to "clean house". Right the sinking ship, make his/her mark. More Sims3 fluff packs almost certainly. Will DAoC close? Will the WAR licence be renewed? Will SWTOR get any further expansions? Every game/studio will come under the microscope - again; and a lot of employees could be very worried at this moment in time. EA is not a byword for quality games.
Hard Core Member
Joined: 2/17/07
NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.
Originally posted by Souldrainer
Makeb is going to be smaller because it was meant to be just an update, it costs $10 instead of $40 or $60, and if it was going to be a BIG expansion then EA would not hesitate to charg $40 or $60 for it. The fact you have to pay anything for it is a turn off for a start, considering it was meant to be FREE and in game by the end of 2012. People who have been following what EA/BW have been doing and saying with SWTOR will less likely buy the Makeb expansion unless like being screwed over, only the fans of SWTOR will buy this expansion. There is no reason for anyone who likes EQ2 not to buy the expansion for EQ2 if people want it as it all happened at a reasonable level - was not going to be an ordinary update and be free and was released fast.
Joined: 3/19/06
Trolls will be ignored
Originally posted by gervaise1
This. Their expectations were way to high for this game and they spent way more than they should have for a risky venture such as an MMO.
Currently Playing: Star Wars The Old Republic
Novice Member
Joined: 6/05/06
You have to remember that PC games still represent a small % of EA's profits. Still, you don't spend $200m+ on a game and have it flop like SWTOR without expecting some heads to roll.
I tried coming back and doing the F2P, but it was just too restrictive to make the game fun. I enjoyed Warzones more than the PvE, and combined with the gear restriction the warzones were too few and I was at a huge disadvantage.
I might go back to being a paid sub if they fixed the class balance problem. It still remains only certain classes/roles are desired for ranked warzones. If you aren't that class in a specific role, you wont get into a ranked warzone group. That's a clear indication that there is a class balance problem, and EA refuses to acknowlege the issue..
Originally posted by Pongo_
I'm not really pro-SWTOR in too many ways. I like certain parts of the game. I just don't like the SWG comparasins, and I'd rather see the game be more like Star Wars than SWG. Now, the real kicker here is, I hate certain aspects of SWTOR. I hate the RNG aspects. I hate the lackluster implementation of HK droids. I hate that you can't corrupt or redeem certain companions. I hate the MVP voting system for PVP (GW2 does it better IMO). I also hate how massive the game is, honestly. If you're going to make a massive land mass, I think you should put somethign there. I was simply pointing out that Makeb has a lot of potential.
However, SWTOR gets a bad rap from a lot of people on MMORPG.com. The SWG fanboys are especially annoying, with their crap. They want bullshit like open space travel, player houses, and chat bubbles... and none of it really belongs in a Star Wars game. I've been a SW fan since 1977, and I feel that if they are going to make changes, they need to lean towards Star Wars, not SWG. Some will disagree with me, but I think SWG was a project that was 50% Everquest, 40% random ideas from SOE, and 10% Star Wars. SWTOR is far from perfect. In fact, certain parts of SWTOR are downright broken. But IMO, it is way closer to the Star Wars IP than SWG ever was, by a factor of 5, maybe more.
So yeah. I like SWTOR. I love parts of it and I hate parts of it. I hate SWG, and I love the Star Wars IP.
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Novice Member
Joined: 8/28/05
Originally posted by vadess40
Right. And why is that?
Lets say they do have lots more subs than they did. Lets say people are spending tons of cash in the shop.
Why has EA been quite about it? Why don't they give hard numbers? "We had 250k before ftp now we have 700k" "The in game shop has doubled our profits from last quarter"
If the game is doing great, why do they need to charge for an xpac that was free update?
Why do they need to reuse all ready made content rather than make new?
Apprentice Member
Joined: 7/04/11
Originally posted by Souldrainer
And yet you have no concrete examples of how to make SWTOR more like "Star Wars." What's your brilliant idea? Fast movement through the frame? Wipes for scene transition? People like you, who have this anemic view of the game world, got what they deserved in SWTOR.
SWG attempted to address the massive implied sense of wonder in the Star Wars universe by using a realistic art style, by putting in a large amount of interaction with the world, and by using the original setting (Not the half-baked ancient time setting that is really only suitable for backstory).
SWG is also a real example to be utilized, so while I also hate those comparisons (because the stupid SWTOR game is not suitable to be compared to SWG), thats the frame of reference that people have. If you take the time to think about it, you'll probably realize that you are unhappy with the features of SWTOR that are limiting rather than allowing you multiple choices. The other star wars MMO gave you tons of choices.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011


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Diaz Camp Formally Requests Drug Testing Details From Quebec Commission MMA News | Mixed Martial Arts | UFC News | BJPenn | MMA Fight | UFC FightsUFC 158 has come and gone, but in typical Nick Diaz fashion the media and fans are forced to still talk about it.
La Régie des alcools des courses et des jeux (RACJ), the athletic commission in Quebec, confirmed yesterday that they tested six UFC 158 competitors for banned substances.
They would not release the names of the six-tested fighters, however the commission did confirm that they didnt find any positive results from the competitors.
The Diaz camp has decided that thats just not good enough and they want more answers.
In a report from MMAWeekly:
Jonathan Tweedale, a representative of Nick Diazs camp, however, revealed to MMAWeekly.com that Diaz was one of the six.
Not only did Tweedale confirm that Diaz was tested and produced negative results, but added that Diazs camp is requesting further information from the Quebec commission.
Mr. Diazs sample tested negative. We have now requested from the Quebec Commission (the Regie):
1) A copy of the Regies request to the laboratory specifying which substances the lab was asked to test the sample for (if any), and
2) A copy of any documents received from the lab conducting the drug testing showing the precise test results for Mr. Diaz for all substances the sample was actually tested for.
Tweedale would not elaborate on why they requested further information from the commission, but it should be noted that Diazs camp has already challenged the RACJ over its handling of the UFC 158 weigh-ins.
The Diaz camp stated that the RACJ relaxed its own rules for the main event, in particular, because Georges St-Pierre was involved.
The Quebec Commission deliberately relaxed the rule (regarding a bouts contracted weight) in this case and, by its own admission, allowed their home-town fighter to make weight even if he weighed more than the contracted weight, Tweedale noted in an earlier statement to MMAWeekly.com regarding the controversial weigh-in situation.
St-Pierre won the five-round championship fight by unanimous decision.
Im really getting sick of this bullshit. So once they give them the results and it shows that GSP was tested (if i do recall didnt they complain in the first place that no one "watched" GSP submit his sample) and had nothing in his system will diaz just go away and not come back...becauase that would be ideal at this point.

subset: commoncrawl


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STORYTIME for preschoolers will be held on Thursday, March 14, 2013 at 10 a.m. at the Yadkin County Public Library. STORYTIME is an early literacy program specifically geared for preschoolers 2-5 years old.
The theme for this week's program will be "My House", featuring the letter "H" and highlighting the literacy skill, vocabulary. All STORYTIME programs are free and open to the public. Make plans now to bring your child or grandchild for an entertaining and educational experience, with stories, music and crafts as we help get them "Ready to Read" with the "Every Child Ready to Read @ your Library" program.
There was tough competition among the teams at this year's NWRL High School Quiz Bowl, held at the Andy Griffith Playhouse in Mt. Airy on Saturday, March 9, 2012. High school teams from Stokes, Surry and Yadkin counties were there to represent their respective schools.
The library would like to extend our sincere appreciation to the following people: Brack Llewellyn for moderating; Wayne Matthews, Homer Dearmin and Beth Lyon-Smith for judging; Shirley Brinkley for her welcome opening and all our dedicated NWRL library staff for their efforts in set up, registration, team pictures, scorekeeping, rotation, refreshments and clean up for the Quiz Bowl.
In addition, the library would to thank all of the high school Quiz Bowl teams who worked very hard to prepare and compete. This year's winning team is Surry Central High School, beating out Surry Early College High School in the final round with a score of 155 to 75. Congratulations to all of our high school teams for a job well done!
The Northwestern Regional Library system is holding a Traveling Quilt Raffle Fundraiser now through June 1st. This beautiful handmade quilt was designed by Carol McDowell, an Elkin resident and member of the Elkin Library Board. Tickets can be purchased at any NWRL branch for $1.00 each or six for $5.00. The quilt will be on display at the Yadkin County Public Library the week of March 11-15 and will also be on display weekly at each of the other NWRL branches until June 1st. For a complete list of date and locations, please see the Region's "What's Happening" page on our NWRL website. Drawing for the quilt will be held on Saturday, June 1st at the Lone Hickory Arena in Yadkinville, in conjunction with our 2nd annual Ride for Readers. For more information, please contact your local NWRL library.
NWRL will continue to offer free access to Ancestry.com Library Edition in each of the NWRL libraries throughout this year. A group meets at the Yadkin County Public Library on Thursdays @ 1:00 pm to offer assistance to anyone interested in using this site. You may come in at any time, during library hours, to use it on your own. Volunteers are available to assist in the Genealogy/Local History Room during this time.
The Yadkin County Public Library, in partnership with Yadkin Christian Ministries, will be providing free tax preparation through the IRS's Volunteer Income Tax Assistance (VITA) and Tax Counseling for the Elderly (TCE) programs. The mission of these programs is to provide free basic tax return preparation for low-to moderate income taxpayers, elderly taxpayers and taxpayers with disabilities, limited English proficiency or military. To qualify, families must have an income of less than $50,000. Free tax preparation will be held at the Yadkin County Public Library on Wednesdays and Thursdays from 9:00 am – 12:00 pm and will continue each Wednesday and Thursday until April 11, 2012. Tax assistance is a free service that is on a first come, first served basis.
The library will be closed on Monday, April 1, 2013 in observance of the Easter holiday. The library will reopen at 8:30 am on Tuesday, April 2, 2013. The Yadkin County Public Library is a member of the Northwestern Regional Library system, comprised of libraries in Alleghany, Stokes, Surry and Yadkin counties. The library's normal operating hours are as follows: Mondays and Thursdays 8:30 am – 6:30 pm and Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Fridays from 8:30 am – 5:30 pm.


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|Off Topic Lounge All Discussions Not Related To Drumming
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Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
a lot more constructive than your comment apparently...
pot, meet kettle.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
Easy to argue black is white but the issues are very obvious.
Very sad but entirely expected until the denial stops ... pity the kids, teachers and families.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
Tie this issue in with the lack of mental health laws, lack of control over kids inside and outside of schools, political correctness that binds us to dealing with these issues head-on is reflected not only in this sad tragedy, but society at large.
I've witnessed more rage issues in a simple 4 year old preschool room (way beyond tantrums) that would make your head spin. Nothing is done or can be done. Services are cut, parents are in denial and teachers hands are tied.
Carry this forward and what comes of it are troubled adolescents, teenagers and adults that can no longer function in this society as civil human beings. Give this group access to any sort of weapon and watch what happens.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
So if I understand your earlier comments in this thread you'd like go back to the 70's or earlier and see God back in schools and homes?
Here's a Wall Street Journal article that expresses my thoughts with better research notes: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...857424036.html
Last edited by Green_C; 12-19-2012 at 04:04 PM. Reason: Added WSJ article
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
Deadly silence...
Society is falling from within into decadence, just like the Roman Empire did in the past.
The back of beyond ...
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
Before I was assigned to crime scene,I was assigned to the ballistics unit.we exanined and test fired all firearms that were vouchered by the NYPD, in
arrest,surrender,investigated and found circustances.Around that 3% of firearms that were used to commit a crime are legally possessed.All others are posessed illegally.
NY City has tough gun control laws,and is one of the only citys in the country,where to need a permit for a long gun.The only handgun carry permits that are issued are generally fot retired law enforcment,and only 200 or so to civilians,in a city of over 8 million people.
In my second year on the job I was shot in my vest ,buy a emotionally disturbed person,who wanted to commit suicide.My partner and I were trying to talk him down.He wouldn't open the door,so we were there for quite a while,when he suddenly fired 4 shots through the door.It was a heavy metal skinned,lined door and two of the shots hit me in the chest.I was wearing my bullet resistant vest,which stopped the rounds.This individual I believe was originally planning suicide by cop,but later changed his mind,and later took his own life by shooting himself in the head.He was one of the first recorded AIDS cases in NY.
How that relates to this is,I'm also and NRA and NY state firearms instructor.I have taught hundreds of cops and civilians,including Boy Scouts how to shoot.I'ts also about safety,common sense,and respect.I continue to teach to this day..
I can't tell you how many times I've said this.....owning a gun is a life style change,and if you can't or won't wrap your head around that,then you have no business even being anywhere near a firearm.I have on occasion called the NYPD license section and told them,NOT to issue some of my students a permit.I have taught staunch anti gunners about guns,safety,common sense possession and marksmanship.The great majority changed their minds and saw the other side of the coin.
As much as I believe in civilian ownership of firearms,just because you can do something,dosen't mean you should.Judgement , temperment,respect,and mental stability should be factored in as well as training.BEFORE legally posessing a firarm
Just as an aside,when I last visited London,as a retired NYPD,I was curious to know how the Metropolitan police felt about being armed and unarmed.In and around St James and Buckingham Palace,there were pleny of armed,yes armed PCs.I spock to a sergeant who was standing a post close to St James.I told him who I was,and said ,do you mind if I ask you a question.I said I notice your carrying a Glock 19,truthfully,don't you feel better with that on your hip?
He just smiled broadley ,and said..I feel the same way you do detective.The UK is one of a very few parts of the world that dosen't routinely arm it's police,except for the PSNI where all officers are armed.
There are lots of arguments to he heard.There will be extreme arguments on either side.Clearly we need to be more active in our childrens lives,and become more educated as teachers and parents.We also need to recognize the signs of mental illness when we see them,and take immeadiate and positive action.
Unfortunately,parenting in the US at least is the largest growing competitive sport in the country.The not me,my child is perfect, blinders on, parent numbers are growing.Parents seem to believe that schools,teachers,TV and the internet should be raising their children,in a time when parents and the family unit need to reinforce education with interaction,love an just plain common sense.As a retired boy scout leader,I can tell you as a nation,parents are failing their children.We used to joke the BSA (boy scouts of America),actually stood for Baby Sitters Are us.
Andy...I just need to ask what safety catch you're refering to since all modern quality firearms have actually,numerous built in automatic,as well as manually operated safeties.The Glock pistol as an example has a safe action system which consists of a trigger safety,a half cock disconector,and a drop safety,which are built in,tamperproof and work automaticly.
Steve B
Last edited by tamadrm; 12-20-2012 at 12:30 AM.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
I said morality is decaying, the family construct is more messed up than ever, we have enabled selfishness and arrogance to go unchecked and tolerance of bad behavior is at an all time high. Meanwhile we are all trying to become better than everyone else and have our eyes glued to screens.
We can just continue to deny it and kick this down the road more. It's only getting worse.
What's wrong with trying to live a life like Jesus lived anyway? Christaphobia
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
Religion and religious beliefs (I thought) were not supposed to enter the forum.
So I'll stop reading this thread now.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
This was very much the case in the days that followed July 7th 2005. A day or two after the bombings I was passing through Leeds City (Railway) Station [which is about 200 miles away from central London where the attacks took place] and saw armed police patrolling the premises. They were armed with submachine guns as well as pistols and I suddenly felt anything but safe. The country was on a higher-than-usual level of security alert, sure, but having an armed police presence gave me little reassurance.
In the wake of the rioting and looting that took place in London and across the UK in August 2011 many called for police to be routinely armed or even to have troops deployed in the worst areas. I don't know about anyone else but I count myself as particularly fortunate to live in a time when Saracens aren't routinely rolling down some of the streets of this country.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
I for one would like to see armed police anywhere you have a large group of people. These little cowards would not be able to unleash there terror as easily.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
Best Freudian slip ever!! ;-)
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
There are armed Police in the UK but, as Bad Tempered Clavier says, they are an unusual sight. In the capital, they are usually there as a response to a security alert or to protect a high-value individual such as the Queen or members of the government. Walking around the capital (and I live very close to it, I was in London today, in fact) I have never seen a beat officer wearing a firearm and I don't wish to. The last time I saw an armed officer in the UK was in Gatwick Airport - which obviously has a specific security requirement.
The armed Police in the UK are a very small subset (5%) of officers. Those 5% receive intensive training and are generally only called for in specific instances when life is in immediate danger. Unfortunately, even with this approach to armed Policing, there have been cases in the last few years of officers mistakenly killing civilians, just as there have been cases of civilians killing unarmed officers but these are incredibly rare.
Quite simply, guns are not a topic of everyday British culture. When somebody owns a gun, it is usually on the quiet. I know one civilian that owns a rifle (quite a few own shotguns and the licence is very different) and that is stored at a rifle club, which is practically the only way to own a rifle in the UK. The Section 5 licence - which is required to own anything in a 'military' calibre (e.g. 5.56, 7.62, .223 (same as 5.56 essentially), .308 (same as 7.62 essentially), .303 (old British standard), etc are incredibly stringent to the point that the vast majority of the population could not own a firearm of significant power. Handguns are outright banned. I, for instance, could not privately hold a rifle due to my medical record unless it was stored at a club and everything was logged - including the ammunition.
I find it hard to understand the American attitude towards firearms but I do know a bit about the US Constitution. Nowhere does it say that anybody has the right to own a gun. If they own a weapon, they are supposed to be members of a militia. I doubt that many people in the US that privately hold weapons are members of an organised militia, or have indeed actually studied the Constitutional Amendment. The Second Amendment is actually based on a British writ that says much the same, except with the caveat that any ownership of arms must adhere to other laws - no such caveat is applied in the US Constitution.
As a result, I find it very amusing when people speak of the 'right' to own a gun. The Constitution actually says no such thing! 'Arm' is not a synonymous term and the membership of a militia should be enforceable - but it's not enforced.
The first step in every social change is education and awareness. Of course anybody motivated enough to commit a crime will do so and this may involve a firearm - this is true in any country but in the US the ease of access to firearms is second-to-none in the Western World, with the exception of Switzerland for reasons Henri explained. Guns may not kill people but guns make it a Hell of a lot easier for an individual to commit mass murder should they be motivated. If the same individual had entered the school with a Katana or a Machete, I doubt the death toll would have been anything like as tragic as that which transpired. Trying to bury heads in the sand and deny that gun control is a problem is a deep disrespect to all of those killed in these tragic incidents, at home, work, or school.
From an outsider's perspective, the American attitude towards guns is absolutely crazy. Would I like to own a rifle for target shooting in a controlled environment? Sure. It's fun. Would I like to own a rifle at home for no reason other than my own soundness of mine against some ephemeral 'bad guys'? Hell no.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
I can understand exactly how you feel.During the same time I was visiting the UK,I took the Chunnel over to Paris,and in their subways were two man armed canine patrols,with automatic assault rifles.I believe they were the National police,but their uniforms were very military in appearence.Now I'm an American,and a cop who's been around guns my whole life,and that made me give pause.This was in 2000,before the bombings of 9/11 ,and the ones in the UK.I've done warrant executions,and have been armed with a shotgun or M-4,but never on patrol.
It all changed after that.NYPD on the streets and airports with full body armor ,dogs and automatic weapons.....every day,24/7/365.
Even if you were to ban all guns......there are millions of them out there.Plenty of them are illegal guns owned by ,you guessed it,Joe criminal.There is more gun related gun crimes like robbery in NY City,because the bad guys who have the illegal guns,know that joe citizen isn't armed.Just ask them.I did,and thats the answer they will all give you.
They love it when things like this happen.It means theanti gun lobby will start shouting gun control again,and take more legaly owned guns away from Joe citizen.That just makes their job easier.It's amazing what you learn talking to prision inmates.
In a country like the US, more gun control just dosen't work,because it only affects the law abiding citizen,who does what he must legally,to posess a firearm.The bad guy or the psyco dosen't care about gun laws or permits or training.Gun control only makes their job a lot easier,because they know that when they confront you,that you won't be armed......but they will..........
Steve B
Last edited by tamadrm; 12-20-2012 at 07:33 PM.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
I read a fantastic article yesterday in the Telegraph about gun control in the US (not my normal paper, I have to say) but I forgot the save it and scan it in. I was going to put it up on this thread.
The British Police force were founded on the basis of them having a specifically non-military appearance. Hence the blue uniforms and the lack of a firearm. It's a very deep tradition.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
I also want to point out that, although I believe most firmly that firearm proliferation is a negative factor, I also understand the scale & complexity of the issues. For starters, even if it was possible to substantially reduce firearm ownership, how the hell would you implement it. Disarming all the legally entitled people leaving the majority of firearms in the hands of criminals isn't exactly a good idea.
My information may be out of date Steve, but I remember taking a return flight from JFK a few years ago, & reading a copy of the Herald Tribune. There was an article describing a debate (I can't remember which house, senate I think) where a senator argued against mandatory fitting of safety catches on the basis it was unconstitutional. I think the issue was the NRA were fighting against mandatory measures. manufacturers are free to fit such devices, as are customers free to choose firearms with safety catches fitted. Let's face it, who wouldn't, but the NRA were opposed to it being a legal requirement to have a safety catch. If I remember correctly, the proposed legislation only applied to new guns, with no requirement to retrofit. I've no idea how it all panned out.
Major tragedy & killing spree happenings aside, I think any process has to start with accepting there's a serious problem. For one nation to have such a hugely disparate firearms related mortality rate, whilst maintaining a similar population & society demographic as their global neighbors, there must be a set of factors that set that nation aside from all the others.
I also accept the feelings of needing to defend yourself. In such a context, I totally get that, but, on a small & personal scale, in the US, you effectively have a domestic arms race in progress. When has that ever been a good policy?
I also accept that most shootings are down to those who own firearms illegally, but is it not reasonable to assume that availability with such ease is part of that issue? The more firearms out there, the easier it is to get hold of them, & let's face it, the US is awash with guns - literally.
Not my country, so time for me to shut up.
Peace to all.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
But what if a mother was made to exercise far more stringent control over a ready made arsenal sitting in a cupboard just waiting for her idiot son to access so easily?
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
I think that Steve B sums it up.
You have to think like a criminal.
A criminal is a predator.
~A predator looks for the easy prey.~
That is the true nature of it.
I kind of like old drums:)
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
Screw guns - more drums! There are more gun shops in the US than McDonalds ... imagine what the country would be like if there were more music shops instead?? Yes, I know - it's impossible to imagine :(
It would help to have a medical safety net too, so people with mental illness can afford to get help before everything goes to hell. Let's face it, the gun genie can't be put back in the bottle, which is a sad situation for US citizens who don't love lethal weaponry.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
I don't wish to single out any particular nation because - as I alluded to earlier in this thread - firearm related deaths, be they homicide, suicide, or accidental, are a Global problem.
However I do find it curious when people cite "home defence" as reason for owning a firearm, whether they happen to be legally/morally entitled to own that weapon or not. I mean, if one happens to live in a part of the world where your home is likely to be invaded by a bear or something or you need something to stop predators attacking your livestock then fair enough. Otherwise we are talking about shooting and, by extension, potentially killing a person.
A lot of people make very bold statements about the ease with which they would happily shoot anyone who threatens their home/family/whatever but I wonder if it is always so easy. Unless that person happens to have experience of combat or at least a firefight then the likelihood of them freezing up when faced with such a confrontation is surely quite high; and there are precious few ways for civilians to train for combat. Shooting at stationary paper targets when you are at rest is one thing. Trying to fire upon a moving, living, human when you've just woken up at 3am and everyone in the house is screaming is another.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
BTC all of this is true, however there are classes from several of the gun shops here that teach you to take the shot and not stand there shaking like a leaf. I live in a very quiet neighborhood where the houses are in the 135 to 150 K range and in the 25 years I have been here there has been one home invasion of a senior lady. She was targeted by the robber because of her age and put up little fight. I'm sure a gun would not have helped her, but if the invader has been threatened by someone else a little more adept, he would have turned and run. No one wants to shoot anyone but if its me or the bad guy, the bad guy is going to lose.
Retirement...August 21, 2015
Feel. Control the Bounce.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
we both know you won't stop. I'm not the one who brought up God anyway. Careful with those panties...
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
[quote=BacteriumFendYoke;1086648] /i].
I find it hard to understand the American attitude towards firearms but I do know a bit about the US Constitution. Nowhere does it say that anybody has the right to own a gun. If they own a weapon, they are supposed to be members of a militia. I doubt that many people in the US that privately hold weapons are members of an organised militia, or have indeed actually studied the Constitutional Amendment. The Second Amendment is actually based on a British writ that says much the same, except with the caveat that any ownership of arms must adhere to other laws - no such caveat is applied in the US Constitution.
Actually it does....
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
I see no legal caveat, Mark. The original document the Second Amendment is based upon puts the right to bear arms as secondary to any law that may supersede that right. The Second Amendment leaves that out.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution is the part of the United States Bill of Rights that protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms. It was adopted on December 15, 1791, along with the rest of the Bill of Rights.
In 2008 and 2010, the Supreme Court issued two landmark decisions concerning the Second Amendment. In District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm, unconnected to service in a militia[1][2] and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. In dicta, the Court listed many longstanding prohibitions and restrictions on firearms possession as being consistent with the Second Amendment.[3] In McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025 (2010), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment limits state and local governments to the same extent that it limits the federal government.[4]
Retirement...August 21, 2015
Feel. Control the Bounce.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
I wasn't aware of the recent changes. Thanks for that, J.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
Regardless of the "right to bear arms" it is still important to make sure that this conversation comes down to so much more than whether or not a citizen should be allowed to own guns. We must remember to keep the mental health issues, safety of our schools. community involvement, etc. in our conversations. It seems that almost all of the discussions (not necessarily here, but all over) have come down to either guns or God. I agree, guns should take part in the discussions. God should not.
We need to step back, take an OBJECTIVE look at what really needs to be done and then look at a course of action. Rash decisions will get us nowhere except a step backwards.
I am deluded enough to think I can bring something to the table - Huey Lewis.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
In my neck of the woods there has been much discussion on the mental health aspect. I have not forgotten the kids, the teachers, and others, but we must keep in mind that all of the talk takes on this same tone after every massacre. The first thing I did when I got that night was email my daughter in law and tell her to give my two grandsons a hug, which she did for me without hesitation. I just don't like knee jerk reactions to serious problems.
Retirement...August 21, 2015
Feel. Control the Bounce.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
The problem with the gun issue is that the gun lobbyists have the government by the balls- not the wording of the constitution or anything as that has been beaten to death in thousands of legal cases.
Its the lobbyists. Like so many other issues.
I am actually expecting Obama to come out with something (proposed law change of some sort) after this event (sickens me to try to come up with another name for it) in Newtown. It would be unprecedented but we all agree a necessary step to take that is waaaaaaay overdue.
I have hunting guns, locked in a safe, disassembled, in a room with a deadbolt on the door, ammo in a separate case locked as well. Not so hard to set it up this way. I can hardly play a triplet but I can make guns safe.
Personally would love to see every weapon registered with local police by way of a home firearm safety inspection that would be updated every 3-5 years or so. I think it would teach gun safety, allow cops to see whats going on in a home and know who has what. I have them, store them safely and use them for enjoyment occasionally and would be fine with them knowing. I also feel that if you arent OK with this, you have something to hide and shouldn't have it. Only reason I think this might work is because no one is slated to lose their guns. A real fear obviously.
The NRA would fight that for 1000 years for whatever reason- they would drum something up as they have for most gun issues in the past.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
At the same time, I do support reasonable restrictions. I think weapons that can fire too rapidly, and large capacity magazine clips (whether the goofily menacing "assault weapons" or something else) should be banned. If you can't hit something with six shots, then you need to practice at the shooting range, not spray more bullets. There is simply no need in hunting or self-protection to have a weapon capable of such overkill. Also, if you are clinically depressed, a mental defective or have some other condition that could reasonably affect your judgment with regard to the use of a firearm, you should have your guns confiscated until a mental health professional clears you.
So, don't assume there's some kind of uniform attitude among gun owners. Many, like me, don't follow the radical agenda of the NRA and support reasonable restrictions.
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Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
All well said by DMC. I would own a gun for the same reason. BUt banning large clips, and semi-automatic weapons will not work now with the amount that have already been sold. If you are required to turn them in, the law abiding citizens will do so. They are not the problem. It's the criminal element that will never abide by such rules. I would like to see from this day forward, every weapon sold, traded or whatever have to be registerrd at the state level. Keep the US govt. out of it. They couldn't keep Fast and Furious safe. And putting Joe Biden in charge of a committee is ridiculous. Google Delaware gun laws, where Biden is from and see what is up. Nothing is registered at all. Joe has to clean his own house first.
Retirement...August 21, 2015
Feel. Control the Bounce.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
Yet whilst we're doing that is the idea of having fewer firearms in the world and fewer people able to access those arms inconceivable? Would not such an idea be considerably easier and quicker to achieve? To quote from that IANSA publication I linked to earlier:
"Guns may not be the root cause of violence, but they multiply it dramatically. Poverty, unemployment, injustice, frustration, fear, jealousy or depression can kindle the spark of violence; adding guns to such a volatile environment is like throwing petrol onto a fire.I think that last paragraph highlights the crux of the problem: when prosperous nations hear about influenza or malaria having such an affect on a poorer country's mortality rate then they do not hesitate to rush over and help. Yet someone somewhere is surely profiting from the manufacture and trade of small arms and it is the ones that can least afford to acquire them - both in terms of financial cost and the cost of human life - who suffer the most for it.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
I've been reading this thread and thought I'd stay out of it, but just couldn't help putting my two cents in.
As you can probably tell by my username, I happen to be one of those dreaded "Gun" people.
As a member of the US Army for 22 years.........I had the opportunity to see many places where the government, or criminal elements, were the only ones with "arms" and it never seemed to work in the citizens favor. As much as we would all like to have "Peace on Earth", man is a violent species...........and, unfortunately will continue to be.
Personally, I think we need to look at all factors instead of the knee jerk reaction of banning all guns. It is an American constitutional right that has been in place since our inception............which was, by the way, a violent one. The vast majority of gun violence, in our country, is committed by criminals who couldn't care less what laws are passed.
I grew up in Pine Ridge, South Dakota, one of the poorest places in America, to this day. Anyone familiar with Pine Ridge will tell you it is not the "ideal" place to grow up. We had many issues, but guns were not one of them. For my 12th birthday, I received a .22/410 over and under, kept it in my closet along with the ammo............every kid I knew owned a gun, but we would never have thought of shooting each other.............plenty of fist fights, but no gun violence. Right or wrong it was the culture we lived in. It wasn't that we didn't see people use guns..........all of our heroes did, John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, etc............but the guns were always, in our minds, used for good.
Todays kids, mine included, are not allowed this easy access to weapons. I think that is for the better, as children don't always understand the consequences of their actions. I do feel that children should be taught weapons safety and always respect the inherent danger.
What I feel changed was the way we raise our children...............
- todays children spend an average of 4 to 5 hours a day watching TV, playing video games, on the computer etc. Real social interaction isn't near as prevalent.
- Many children are raised in single parent households, as was I. The result, in a lot of cases, is the children do not get the same attention, guidance or supervision as when there are two parents in the house
- The lack of facilities to deal with the mentally ill.........these need to come back.
These factors, along with decreased individual responsibility, has not been good for our children.
I know plenty of you will disagree, and that is fine, but myself and many Americans see it the same way.
Bacterium, I had never known our second amendment, or the concept, came from a British document...........interesting, but not surprising, as most everyone in the original thirteen colonies had ties to Britain..........what document did it come from? I'd like to look it up.
Last edited by longgun; 12-20-2012 at 07:48 PM.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
I highly doubt that the US Supreme will overturn itself.
Steve B
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
In order to get a consealed carry,or target pistol permit,you must complete a training course usually given by local law inforcement.I hate saying this,but cops and the military shoot each other all the time.Safety takes a back seat to some commonly employed tactics,and some of this attitude bleeds through in their instruction.
That attitide is idiotic and has no place in proper training.Guns are suppose to be kept in a locked steel box or safe....and the ammunition is suppose to be stored in a seperate locked container.The only exception is when you're actually carrying a gun,at a range or hunting..leaving guns in an unlocked cabinet with available ammo it a recipe for disaster.
In NYC,the NYPD license section makes you take photos of trigger locks on all of your guns,and the firearms safe in which the'll be stored.They must acompany a notorized document when you renew your permit.The NYPD also checks on gun owners to make sure you are in compliance.This is a condition of ownership.Normally it would violate you constitutional rights,but by agreeing to firearm ownership,you waive that right,under very narrow circunstances.
I think that it's actually a smart thing to do,and if the local LEOs where this woman who had the guns did this,there is a possibility that this tragedy could have been avoided.If this humanoid couldn't get her guns,who knows what might have happened.
Plenty of common sense rules were broken.
Steve B
Last edited by tamadrm; 12-20-2012 at 07:37 PM.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
Longgun, the Second Amendment was based on a passage from the 1689 Bill of Rights. The specific wording escapes me but the specific phrase is easily searchable on Wikipedia if you look up the Second Amendment.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
With a little practice,you can reload a semi-auto in about 3 seconds.Pro target shooters can do it in about 1 second or less.When I was competitivly shooting police revolver,using speed loaders, I could reload in between one and two seconds and be back on target..
I agree with keeping the feds out of it,but the US government should help foot the bill.Keeping things on a state and municipal lever would exert a greater degree of monitoring of transactions and ownership.It would also insure that firearms and ammo were being safely stored,and kept away from innocent children as well as the psyco bad guys.
Steve B
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
As far as banning large capacity clips, where to you think criminals get theirs? They either buy them or steal them from law abiding citizens, or from other criminals. If we ban these clips, their numbers will gradually decrease.
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Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
A simple way to read the second amendment is to add/change a couple words to bring the language up to modern norms:
"Because A well regulated Militia, is necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"
The problem with banning guns or even a type of gun is one of definition and scale. First how do you define an assault weapon w/o restricting Elmer Fudd's semi-automatic hunting rifle. They function in the same manner. One is just cosmetically different than the other. (Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.) So you write a law to restrict the evil looking gun but still allow your hunting constituency to keep their hunting rifles and you've written a useless feel good law that does nothing. This can be seen with our last assault rifle ban. I bought my first AR-15 during the ban...
Second is the issue of scale. The world bank estimates there are 500 million small arms available world wide. Of which, incidentally, 100 million are AK-47 type (AKM, Type 56, M60, M70B2, Galil, and others) assault rifles. These are sold in some markets for $30-$125. Now keep in mind these are real assault rifles that fire in a fully automatic manner that are not currently available to the US consumer who can only buy semi-automatic firearms w/o jumping though special hoops. Now couple that with the fact that 300 million firearms are privately held in the United States. Finally, firearms aren't magical creations. They are really quite simple to make. Make them illegal and there will be money to be made for any guy with a mill and or lathe in his garage. All these factors mean that removing firearms from those that don't mind breaking laws will be impossible.
Last edited by Green_C; 12-20-2012 at 09:10 PM.
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
Furthermore, the military will have to keep much better tabs on their equipment. If they are banned, $40 per mag will buy private Joe a lot of beer. "Honest Sarge, I lost it in the swamp."
Edit to add supporting documentation: "Brownells sells 3.5 years worth of magazines in 72 hours" http://www.guns.com/2012/12/20/brown...s-in-36-hours/
(Brownells is one of the largest if not the largest suppliers of gun parts.)
Last edited by Green_C; 12-21-2012 at 04:08 AM. Reason: punctuation
Re: Shooting in Newtown, Connecticut Elementary School
As I have learned more about how the event unfolded I have concluded that it is time to have armored structure in school buildings in the needed areas.
I also believe that a trained and armed special officer is needed at every school.
Perhaps It could be a job for officers who are nearing retirement who want to do it.
Children will always be prey for sick demented criminals simply because they are defenseless.
Gun control alone will not solve the issue.
The Newtown Fire Department has received 6000 Teddy Bears to hand out. They have handed out over 1000 already.
Millions of dollars in donations have come in for the families.
The media is beginning to thin out a bit and a sort of, "normalcy" for lack of a better word in starting to settle in.
Of course we all know that it will never be the same.
I am off to Sandy Hook in a few moments for Jazz band practice. We decided to hold it to get a break from the sadness.
I kind of like old drums:)
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Sandra Glahn
Associate Professor in Media Arts and Worship, Editor-in-Chief, Kindred Spirit
BA, Washington Bible College, 1981; ThM, Dallas Theological Seminary, 2001; PhD, University of Texas at Dallas, 2013.
In addition to her role in the department of Media Arts and Worship, Dr. Glahn serves as editor-in-chief of the Seminary's award-winning magazine, Kindred Spirit. Dr. Glahn and her husband of thirty-five years experienced a decade of infertility and pregnancy loss before the adoption of their daughter. Consequently, a number of Dr. Glahn's nineteen books relate to bioethics, sexuality, and reproductive technologies. She is a regular blogger at Engage, bible.org's site for women in Christian leadership and the owner of Aspire Productions. A conference speaker, retreat speaker, and journalist, Dr. Glahn's ministries have taken her around the world.
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He Said, She Said: Beyonce on Being Frugal, Reggie Bush on Kim's soul food
Beyonce on being cheap (well…frugal):
"Honestly, I'm very frugal. I haven't bought a car since I was 16 or any diamonds since I was 17. I have a lot of property. I've invested my money and I don't have to make any more, thank God, because I'm set. I'm now able really to be free and just do things that make me happy. It's an effort to stay grounded."
I would have never thought Beyonce was pinching pennies. She has an estimated 80 million sitting in the bank. But then again, why spend hers when she can spend his…
Reggie Bush on how Kim won his heart
"She cooked one of my favorite meals, corn bread, macaroni and cheese, candy yams and fried chicken and it was ridiculously good. "She's the first girl that's ever cooked a meal for me," he added. "That's honestly how she got me – with the food!" I was already stunned by how beautiful she is and then when she cooked the meal for me. And she's pretty too, it's done. You can't ask for much more."
Okay, I admit, I saw the sex tape and Kim looked like a lazy lay while Ray J was putting in work (I know..tmi). BUT, The fact that she learned how to cook soul food for a brotha gives her one up. I can't see Vanessa Bryant dipping her freshly manicured nails in some flour to make some fried chicken for Kobe. Beyonce is still working on perfecting her iced water. Reggie won…
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It's not the first June when Google changes the search results interface when you search for [gay] and other related terms. While in 2009 and 2010 Google added a colorful bar below the search box, this year there's a rainbow next to the search box.
June is the "Gay and Lesbian Pride Month" and there are many pride parades all over the world. Last year, Google's blog included an article about gay parades and the Google employees who participated.
"Google supports its LGBT employees in many ways: raising its voice in matters of policy, taking a moment to remember the plight of transgender people around the world and going the extra mile to ensure that its employees are treated fairly."
{ Thanks, multilind. }
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NORTH CHARLESTON -- Air India has taken delivery of the first 787 assembled at Boeings new South Carolina assembly plant.
The airline took delivery at the North Charleston plant Friday. Boeing officials said the plane is expected to fly out of the Charleston International Airport on Monday.
Boeing South Carolina vice president and general manager Jack Jones says its a tribute to company workers, customers, suppliers and the state that the first plane was delivered within three years of breaking ground on the plant. The $750 million assembly plant opened last year.
The plane is the 28th 787 that Boeing has delivered to customers.
The company said Friday it plans to be producing three 787s a month at the South Carolina plant by the end of next year.
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- Alloy Linear
- cassette:
- Shimano 7spd (14-28t) Freewheel
- chain:
- crankset:
- Shimano FCM131 w/ chainguard, 28/38/48t
- fork:
- Clarity integrated Ferous Aero Hi-Ten steel straight blade
- frame:
- Clarity 6061-T6 Devine Geometry, Butted Aluminum Performance Hybrid w/ Formed / Hooded Top Tube, Integrated Headtube, VCS compliant stays, replaceable derailleur hanger
- front derailleur:
- Shimano TX51
- grips/tape:
- Avenir Ergo 3-D Comfort
- handlebar:
- DB 31.8mm low rise Alloy
- headset:
- Integrated "Cane Creek" size drop-in ACB 1 1/8"
- levers:
- Shimano EF-51
- pedals:
- DB Toe Clip Compatible Platform
- rack mounts:
- None
- rear derailleur:
- Shimano Altus
- saddle:
- DB Performance Hybrid w/ Gel
- seatpost:
- Alloy Micro Adjust 27.2mm
- shifters:
- Shimano EF-51 Easyfire 7spd
- stem:
- DB 3D Forged 7° 31.8mm
- tires:
- Kenda Kwick Trax 700x32c
- wheelset:
- 32h Equation R23 Doublewall
- rating:
- 3


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Main Content
Comfortably walk from the skate park to the beach in these Rata Vulc loafers from Vans that are a part of the Surfsiders collection! This canvas shoe boasts a soft foam insole, a rubber Vans tag on the heel and a woven branding tag on the side.
- Canvas upper
- Imported
- Padded insole
- Rubber sole
- Surfsider line
- Woven branding tag
Other Customers also liked:
Special event items are produced by manufacturers only after the outcome of a game or event. These are advanced sale items and will ship immediately after they are received in our warehouse.
Manufacturer direct items are shipped directly from the manufacturer. These items are not available for international or expedited shipping.
Customized items can be personalized with options such as your name, your favorite number, and/or designs. Some options may be limited by league rules.


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Sweet potatoes are so easy to grow and are packed with flavor. This collection features two of our favorite varieties. You get 24 plants, 12 each of
- Centennial sweet potato—Americas favorite. Excellent for short-season areas. Moist texture.
- Georgia Jet sweet potato—Great in the Northeast. Red-skinned potatoes have moist, orange flesh.


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Easy on. Easy off. Easy wash. It?s that simple with the Carson H&L. This white and navy leather and mesh sneaker features hook-and-loop closure, antimicrobial materials that wick away moisture and the ultimate convenience: It is machine washable.
- Washable materials for easy cleaning
- Antimicrobial materials for fresh feet
- Hook-and-loop closure for easy on/off and adjustability
- Imported


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Questions & Answers
Do you have questions about this product?
get answers from real customers and in-house experts with AnswerBox.
Q:How long does it take for this product to expire?Asked on 8/12/2012 by Nattles from Houston, TX
1 answer
A:As with most Lush products, all of our emotional brilliance colors are good for 14 months after their "made on" date.Answered on 10/31/2012 by Anonymous


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Wind: 14 mph
To The Editor:
Dear Friends,
Amurt/el began relief efforts immediately after Typhoon Haiyan caused massive devastation across numerous islands in the Philippines. With more than 10,000 feared dead and hundreds of thousands now homeless, the recovery work is daunting. And as another tropical storm takes aim at the same area, relief teams are scrambling to secure food, water and shelter for the thousands stranded amid the ruins of their homes.
Our teams are made up of volunteers and we work on a grassroots level, providing aid to those most in need.
If you would like to support the work at this critical time, you can send a check to Amurtel, P.O. Box 232, Warren, VT 05674. Or donate online at www.amurtel.org. All donations are tax deductible.
Thanks so much.
Joni Zweig, president
Amurtel North and Central America


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IDOE Summit on School Improvement
Saturday, April 27, 2013 - 1:30pm to 4:00pm
Saturday, April 27, 2013 - 1:30pm to 4:00pm
H. Dean Evans Community & Education Center
8550 Woodfield Crossing Blvd.
Indianapolis, IN 46240
Join Superintendent Glenda Ritz, State Teachers of the Year, Milken Award Recipients, and National Board Certified Teachers for a discussion of a new vision for our school improvement process and a celebration of great teaching.
Seating is limited. RSVP by Wednesday, April 17, 2013 to DeVonne Richburg at (317) 234-7033 or email@example.com.


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Buy with confidence
- Money-back Guarantee
- Free shipping on orders $99 and up
- Superb Customer Service
More from 80 Acres of McEvoy Ranch
Customer ReviewsReceive 25 bonus points for writing a review >
3 Item(s)
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By Mary Ann on February 28, 2014
Will definitely buy again
I was on a trip to CA when I ran across a store down by the Piers that sells the product. I love the scent, not overpowering and light. The consistency of the cream is wonderful, a rich feel, not greasy that leaves your skin feeling so soft. I bought 2 bottels of the Verde Olive Oil cream, next time I want to try the Lavender as well.
Thank you!
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By Wgentile on December 25, 2013
Mcevoy ranch Verde hand and body lotion
Best scent and very luxiourios!
By Susie on October 16, 2013
Will definitely buy it again.
I really like everything about verde hand and body lotion. The fragrance is perfect,so natural and not overpowering. The lotion is rich, not greasy, and makes my skin feel great.
3 Item(s)
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Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)--
Bah, if you've got enough hair to worry about it being messy you should be in a unit that doesn't require the use of a PC anyway.
I don't see any reason why the boonie couldn't be garrison work wear. It keeps the sun off your face and neck, which is the most important reason for wearing a hat in the first place.
LVL 99 Photomancer
- Join Date
- Apr 2004
- Location
- Tasmania, Australia
- Posts
- 3,121
Posted On:
6/15/2011 8:19pm--
+1 for the boonie caps.
boonie caps are actually a common part of every Australian kid's school uniform.
Registered Member
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Posts
- 421
Posted On:
6/16/2011 12:04pm
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
- Posts
- 57
Posted On:
6/21/2011 11:10pm
Registered Member
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Israel
- Posts
- 871
Posted On:
6/22/2011 5:38am
Style: Judo (noob) & BJJ (noob)--
Here the beret is a big deal. It's only for very formal wear,
When you're in your A clothes - the ones you wear outside of base (as opposed to B clothes - which you wear working and doing ****).
In A clothes you must have it on your shoulder, and only for ceremonies and **** on your head.
The rest of the time it's boonie cap (Or B hat as we call'em) because Israel is fucking hot as ****.
The one thing is Berets come in many many colors for different units, regiments and whatnot:
And there's more that aren't included in that picture.
I still have my red one, and it's in good condition, I'm keeping it in case my child needs a red one - It's not unlike in starship troopers with the pre-officer bars.
Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld
- Join Date
- Jan 2003
- Location
- New York, NY USA
- Posts
- 5,601
Posted On:
6/22/2011 7:45am--
Also, the baseball cap is a bad idea. The NYPD actually did a pilot trial of it more than a decade ago and found out a baseball cap causes a breakdown of authority and lowered morale.
If the patrol cap were restyled to be more reminiscent of its ancestors used by the US in the 18th century, it could still be functional and would surpass the beret on the kickass lid "too cool for this" charts.Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.
"Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ
"Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken
My Bullshido fan club threads:
Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
US uniform sucks ass.
MTP MULTICAAAAAAAM. I'm already wearing mine to bed at night.
Regarding berets, you just got to know how to shave, shape and wear them correctly, and I've never seen a member of the US forces wear one that didn't look like it was perched on his head with a crease behind the cap badge that would rival mount everest."To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".
~Ella Wheeler
My guns bigger than Scrapper's!
- Join Date
- Jul 2002
- Location
- Rhineland Pfalz, Der Vaderland
- Posts
- 10,579
Posted On:
8/02/2011 10:30am--______
Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!
Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
Exhibit A
And B
The last one's so low it might actually impair his hearing, or poke someone's eye out with the top
Don't you guys have smaller cap badges more suited to wearing in a beret ?
Last edited by Rock Ape; 8/02/2011 6:17pm at ."To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".
~Ella Wheeler


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American Idol
American Idol: Where Are They Now? Season 11's Jeremy Rosando
Jeremy Rosado was the first of the American Idol Season 11 Top 13 contestant to be sent packing.
Post-Idol, Jeremy made the rounds on the daytime talk show circuit, performing on Live! With Kelly, the Today show, and Good Morning America.
According to his personal website, Jeremy will be releasing his debut album this fall, with plans to tour in the spring.


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Kepler-452b revolves around a sun much like our own.
Mind the Clock
September 1, 2013|
Many of the body's tissues can tell time, and these peripheral clocks can be influenced by environmental cues, such as the timing of food consumption.
September 1, 2013|
Many of the body's tissues can tell time, and these peripheral clocks can be influenced by environmental cues, such as the timing of food consumption.
March 2, 2013|
The method to the dengue virus's maddening infectiousness.
February 1, 2013|
Some of these insidious viruses expertly subvert the host immune system, allowing their unhindered proliferation.
December 12, 2012|
Fat cells behave differently in obese individuals, causing inflammation and insulin resitance.
December 6, 2012|
Adipose tissue plays an immune role in individuals of normal wieght.
July 1, 2012|
Present in every tissue of the body, ubiquitin appears to be involved in a dizzying array of functions, from cell cycle and division to organelle and ribosome biogenesis, as well as the response to viral infection. The protein plays at least two role
July 1, 2012|
Despite its discovery as a protein that seems to show up everywhere, at least in eukaryotic cells, researchers are only beginning to scratch the surface of all of the cellular functions involving ubiquitin.
May 1, 2012|
Telomeres are repetitive, noncoding sequences that cap the ends of linear chromosomes. They consist of hexameric nucleotide sequences (TTAGGG in humans) repeated hundreds to thousands of times.
May 1, 2012|
A transition-state mimic has the power to bind an enzyme at its tipping point as strongly as any available inhibitor and more strongly than most, preventing enzymatic activity.
March 1, 2012|
A lot changes in a child's body over the course of development, and not all changes occur linearly: gene expression can fluctuate, and organs can perform different functions on the way to their final purpose in the body. Here are some of the key deve


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Present two dice columns, decorated with the numbers 1 to 6 In one column, the number sequence is from top to bottom, in the second column of cubes exactly the opposite. Flip hood just an empty tube shown a cube column, they take off again - and the audience can see both towers of cubes to exactly the same number sequence. The cubes are now, a decreased by one, from the column and in a different order restored. No matter how you build the cube column again, a short cover enough with the tube, and already it is precisely in the arrangement on the table as the other column. Whether it shows only the even or odd numbers forward, whether a number is consistent with the abdomen or down on the head or the dice are completely messed up, plays absolutely no role. Finds its culmination this great juxtaposition of effects, if the audience can identify completely at ease, how to build a column and then the second column shows the exact same sequence of numbers. A sensational effect, perfect in function and with an unbeatable price-performance ratio. Height of the tube about 45 cm, size of the cubes about 7.5 cm.
No reviews yet. Do you own this product? Write a review.


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Pub Wear Garage Sale
Shop 'til you drop at our Annual Garage Sale! We will have a ton of great stuff for that special Deschutes Brewery fanatic on your list! Some items like hooded sweatshirts, beanies and stocking stuffers have been brought in for this sale only!
When: Saturday, December 3rd
Time: 9am to 12pm
Where: Lower Warehouse (399 Shevlin-Hixon Dr., Bend, OR)


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Coordinate Finder: Click on the Google Map and get the coordinates - This Google Maps tool gives you a quick and easy way to click on a location and get the X & Y coordinates of that point. It has also been set up so multiple points can be plotted at once.
Feedmarker integrates with Google Maps to provide route + tagging tool - Feedmarker.com, a a bookmarker and newsreader with tagging, now supports Google Maps. You can plot a route on a map and add in descriptive information (title, description, and image) for each point. Then you can save the map with tags and share with others (also supports private, public bookmarks and sharing with groups).
Here is an example:
Google Maps search tool returns ip-geocoded results - The following search tool makes use of the Google Maps API to perform a basic search. The xml search results are then parsed and compared against the lookup hosts within hostip.info. The creator of the tool then plots them and tries to zoom out properly for you to geo-locate the search result. We should stay tuned to this Google Maps API'er for future tools that he's cooking up. Some of them sound quite interesting!


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Monday, March 17, 2014
Coastal Christian defeated Christian Academy twice Friday in a double-header matchup in Myrtle Beach.
Seth White and Connor Barrett combined to strike out 20 batters with no earned runs through the two games, both picking up the wins for Coastal.
Coastal Christian 3, Christian Academy 0
White gave up two hits and one walk while striking out 12 through five innings in the opening game.
Coastal took a two-run lead in the top of the first with sacrifice RBIs from Connor Barrett and Xan Costas. Cory McDonald stretched the lead in the second with a RBI single to center field to score T.J. Bott.
Christian loaded the bases in the second before White ended the inning with back-to-back strikeouts.
Other than the second inning, White was perfect without a hit or a walk.
McDonald finished 3-3 with an RBI and run scored. Costas 1-2 with an RBI and Bott 1-2 with a run scored.
Coastal Christian 6, Christian Academy 4
Barrett picked up the win for Coastal in game two, striking out eight with no hits, and three walks through three innings.
McDonald scored off an infield error in the bottom of the first before Barrett brought home White with a single to left-center.
McDonald sparked a four-run rally for Coastal in the second inning with a two-run double to left field. Costas added two more with a two-out, two-run single.
Christian rang up four runs off three walks and two doubles in the top of the fifth before McDonald finished the game with a strikeout.
McDonald finished at 2-2 with two RBIs, Costas 1-2 with two RBIs, and Barrett finished 1-3 with an RBI.
Coastal (3-1) returns home Friday to host the Lowcountry Wildcats.
Moultrie News is pleased to offer readers the enhanced ability to comment on stories. We expect our readers to engage in lively, yet civil discourse. We do not edit user submitted statements and we cannot promise that readers will not occasionally find offensive or inaccurate comments posted in the comments area. Responsibility for the statements posted lies with the person submitting the comment, not Moultrie News.
If you find a comment that is objectionable, please click "report abuse" and we will review it for possible removal. Please be reminded, however, that in accordance with our Terms of Use and federal law, we are under no obligation to remove any third party comments posted on our website. Read our full terms and conditions.
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Monday, January 6, 2014
With student safety as the highest priority, all Berkeley County School District schools and before-school programs will operate according to a three-hour delay on Tuesday, January 7 due to forecasts of extremely cold weather.
Parents can find the three-hour delay schedule for their children's schools on the district's website at http://www.berkeley.k12.sc.us/files/filesystem/Bell%20Schedule%202013-2014%202.pdf. At this time, there no expected cancellations of the district's after-school child care or after-school programming tomorrow afternoon.
The district asks that parents please dress their children in layers and in warm clothing. During times of severe weather, the district works very closely with its partners including Berkeley County Emergency Preparedness to make decisions related to school dismissals, delays, closures, and bussing.
Again, all Berkeley County School District schools and before-school programs will operate on a three-hour delay tomorrow, January 7. Please continue to monitor the website at BCSDSchools.net, the district's Facebook page, through the media, or through additional call-out messages for any other possible scheduling changes.
The Gazette is pleased to offer readers the enhanced ability to comment on stories. We expect our readers to engage in lively, yet civil discourse. We do not edit user submitted statements and we cannot promise that readers will not occasionally find offensive or inaccurate comments posted in the comments area. Responsibility for the statements posted lies with the person submitting the comment, not The Gazette.
If you find a comment that is objectionable, please click "report abuse" and we will review it for possible removal. Please be reminded, however, that in accordance with our Terms of Use and federal law, we are under no obligation to remove any third party comments posted on our website. Read our full terms and conditions.
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A costume contest will highlight Hilbert College's Children's Halloween party, which is free and open to the public. Children are encouraged to dress in costume for a chance to win a fun prize! Other activities will include pumpkin painting, hay rides around the campus grounds, arts and crafts and much more.
Sponsored by Student Government Association, Student Clubs and the Student Activities Office


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Pennsylvania man missing during planned trip to OhioWritten by Morgan Delp | | email@example.com
The abandoned rental car of Jonathan Elwell, 44, of Shillington, Pa., was found off of Highway 30 in Crawford County, Iowa, on April 20.
Since then, police have been trying to locate Elwell, who rented the car near his home on April 14 for a planned trip to Ohio, said his sister, Joy Elwell, of Tioga, Pa.
"When he rented the car, he told (the rental company) he was going to Ohio," Ms. Elwell said. "He didn't say where in Ohio."
"His mother grew up in Ohio, so there are ties back to Ohio," said Linda Neff, Mr. Elwell's first cousin from Milwaukee, Wis. "His maternal grandparents are buried in Ohio, so it would make sense for him to go there. … But he was several states west of Ohio."
Mr. Elwell rented the car because he traveled around Shillington by bike and didn't own a vehicle, Ms. Elwell said. The car was found locked, with his clothing and belongings inside and his bicycle in the trunk.
"It was normal for Jonathan to bring a bike when he came and visited us," said Ms. Elwell, who lives about three and a half to four hours north of Mr. Elwell. "He would ride the bike once he got here and wouldn't drive the car."
Mr. Elwell rented the car in Reading, Pa., a town near his home, and scheduled to return it on April 21. Someone thinks they saw him in Shillington on April 17, but it has not been confirmed, Ms. Elwell said. The last place Mr. Elwell's whereabouts are known is Carroll County, Iowa, on April 18, Neff said.
"That was the last time a purchase was made," Neff said. "A receipt was found in the rental vehicle. There is surveillance tape from the convenience store of that transaction."
There has been no activity on credit or debit cards since then, and nobody has been able to reach him by cell phone, which was not found in the car, Ms. Elwell said.
"He is a single man, he was on holiday from his job, he was taking a driving trip," Neff said. "All of his bills were paid, all of his rent was paid through May 15. He was supposed to report back to work on the 27th (of April)."
Mr. Elwell worked out of his apartment for a company that does phone surveys, Neff said.
Neff and her husband helped a team of volunteers (Star 1) search the area around and north of where the car was found in western Iowa on May 12. The group consisted of nine people and two specially trained cadaver dogs, led by Sheriff Jim Steinkuehler of Crawford County. The Crawford County Police have been working with the Shillington Police and the Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation on this case, Neff said.
"The sheriff in Crawford County has gone above and beyond," Neff said. "He has been a real God-send to our family."
While Mr. Elwell was not found in the search, Neff said that the "searchers last weekend were another piece of the puzzle and another stone we are turning over." Neff, Ms. Elwell and all other family members and friends have made it their mission "to turn over every single stone there is," Neff said.
Currently, police are investigating the possibility of Mr. Elwell's connection with The Register's Annual Great Bicycle Ride Across Iowa, which is a seven-day bicycle race in Iowa that occurs every year. Officials are trying to find out if Mr. Elwell had participated in this race in the past, since he was such an avid bicyclist, Neff said.
"It's difficult to get information," Neff said. "The RAGBRAI organization cannot release names of who participated last year."
Ms. Elwell said that because of the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, it is difficult to retrieve information about Mr. Elwell possibly being at a hospital somewhere.
"Any information, no matter how insignificant, can help," Ms. Elwell said. "(Jonathan's) mother … wants to know where her baby is."
If anyone has any information regarding Jonathan Elwell, who is described as being 6-foot-2, 180 pounds and balding with blue eyes and acne scarring, they are asked to contact the Crawford County Sheriff's office at (712) 263-2146.
Tags: bicyclist, Crawford County (Iowa), Jonathan Elwell, Joy Elwell, Linda Neff, missing man, Morgan Delp


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|R.J. and Flora Williams family, c. 1904
One of our family treasures is a photograph of the family in front of their home taken about 1904 when Iva, clutching a doll on the steps, was in her moppet phase. Her brothers Argil and Earl are standing on the porch. Brother Guy is to the right of the stairs. Her father is seated on the porch. Her mother is standing near the window in front of the house. This home is far smaller than the Maple Street house and after looking at the picture of that house, I don't think the buildings are they same. It is still possible that R.J. was involved in the construction, interior finishes or remodeling of the Maple Street house, but it is not the house the family was living in when the photograph was taken.
The 1900 census lists the family living on Maupin Row in the First Ward. R.J. owned the home, free of mortgage. I believe this is the house in the photograph. Maupin Row is not found on modern maps, nor could I find it in the 1910 census. However I located many other streets in the same district on Google Maps. Maupin Row was listed near the pins in the top left area of the map. Whatever remains of the house is buried beneath parking lots or highways.
1910 U.S. census, population schedule, Johnson City, Washington, TN, enumeration district (ED) 0202, p. 7B, dwelling 110, family 111, Reese J. Williams; digital images, Ancestry.com (www.Ancestry.com : accessed 16 Aug 2011); citing National Archives and Records Administration microfilm T624, roll 1524.
Williams Family, RJ and Flora. Photograph. c. 1904. Digital image. Privately held by Susan Clark, St. Louis, MO. 1980.


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Tuesday, April 16, 2013
The Pinewood Prep track and field team earned several Top 5 finishes during a meet held Thursday at Porter-Gaud.
Maryah Nasir set the tone by winning the 3,200-meter race with a new school record of 11:35.9 and winning the 1600 (5:32) race.
Katie Smoak won the Shot Put (28-07) and placed second in the Discus (83-03).
Isabelle Greenstreet placed fourth in the 3200 (12:36) and fifth in the 1600 (5:55). She also anchored the Pinewood 4 x 800 Relay team that placed fourth. Other members of the relay team were Seleste Franklin, Abby Mandel and Kasey Grossman.
Ashley Wilson placed fourth in Discus (75-02) and threw Shot Put.
Mason Hazel led the Pinewood boys in the nine-team meet, placing third in the 800 with a new school record of 2:10.28.
Jake Birdsong Placed fourth in the 3200 with a new personal record of 11:47, just missing state qualifying by two seconds.
The Lady Panthers placed fifth in the meet while the Pinewood boys placed eighth.
The Journal Scene is pleased to offer readers the enhanced ability to comment on stories. We expect our readers to engage in lively, yet civil discourse. We do not edit user submitted statements and we cannot promise that readers will not occasionally find offensive or inaccurate comments posted in the comments area. Responsibility for the statements posted lies with the person submitting the comment, not The Journal Scene.
If you find a comment that is objectionable, please click "report abuse" and we will review it for possible removal. Please be reminded, however, that in accordance with our Terms of Use and federal law, we are under no obligation to remove any third party comments posted on our website. Read our full terms and conditions.
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A year of Google blogging
Friday, December 30, 2005
This is the 201st post to be published on the Google Blog in 2005. In closing out the first full year of our company-wide effort to share news and views, we thought you might be interested in a few factoids. Since we've had Google Analytics running on this blog since June, some of these numbers reflect only half a year. In that time, 4.3 million unique visitors have generated 8.7 million pageviews. Readers have come from all over the world, not just English-speaking countries: 53,001 visitors from Turkey have stopped by, for example; so have 155,691 from France, 29,614 from Thailand and 8,233 from Peru.
The most popular posts? Here are a few that have yielded scores of backlinks:
- Our explanation of "Googlebombing"
- A celebration of email and Gmail
- Google Earth's partnership with National Geographic about Africa
Several on Google Book Search (formerly known as Google Print), including:
- Preserving public domain books
- Our statement on the Authors' Guild suit
- and Eric Schmidt's op-ed about Book Search.
During the year, we've published 38 how-to tips, announced 77 new products and services, and addressed policy questions and legal matters 17 times. We've featured 11 guest bloggers. Forty posts have illuminated something about day to day life at Google; 19 have offered some international perspective.
In 2006, we'll keep up the Google Blog with more posts, more bloggers, and even more topics. Meanwhile, we really appreciate your interest and feedback, now visible through "Links to this post." We know some of you would like to offer comments directly, and we would like that too, when we can add resources to the blog crew. Meanwhile, our best to you and yours for the New Year.


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COLUMBIA CITY — A Columbia City man arrested last week on drug charges had his first appearance in court Monday.
Michael Raber, 26 arrested Thursday and charged with six counts. He was charged with two counts of dealing in methamphetamine, a Class B felony; one count of possession of methamphetamine, a Class D felony; one count of possession of precursors for the manufacture of methamphetamine, a Class D felony; maintaining a common nuisance, a Class D felony and possession of paraphernalia, a Class A misdemeanor.
Case reports allege that an informant visited Raber twice last week to make purchases. The buys were scheduled to take place at Budget Inn, Columbia City. It is alleged that a hypodermic needle containing .3 cc's of meth and 20 pills identified as Tramadol was purchased from Raber and his girlfriend on Tuesday, Jan. 22 for $100.
After this event allegedly occurred, reports said Raber left the motel and went to an address in rural Columbia City to obtain more drugs.
A follow-up purchase was allegedly made on Thursday. Raber was met at the Budget Inn and an informant purchased a baggy containing white powder which was purported to be 1.5 grams of meth for $120. The powder was later field tested and was determined to not be methamphetamine.
After Raber's arrest, other items were found at the scene, such as empty soda bottles.
Raber will be back in court on March 4 for pre-trial conference. His attorney will be Scott Lennox.
For a more in-depth look at this story, see the Jan. 29 issue of The Post and Mail. Don't have a subscription? Call (260) 244-5153 or subscribe to our e-edition. For breaking news, sports updates and additional coverage, bookmark the homepage and find us on facebook.