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Heineken Google Maps Game - Heineken in Holland is making use of the Google Maps API for a fun little game on their website. To try it out you have to navigate some Dutch wording. Go here, then click "Ja" (right side) then click "Start Met De Tour". The object of the game is to center the map until your radio reception reaches 100%. I've only ever been able to tune into 99%, but the band sounds good! Good Luck.
Google Map Attack - Here's a cool new Google Maps game that lets you find key locations on the map. Signin with a username and password to log your points each time you come back, then start the available challenges. They range from finding Lake Erie to the Moscow Pentagram. Hints come in handy.. and hey - no cheating! Have fun!
G-Map Games (Firefox browser only) - These demo games show how Google Maps and Flash can be combined to have some fun. Created by a student at Perdue University, there are 3 to choose from (Blast is about the best) after you click "Demo".
To view the games please paste this URL into your browser:
(This is due to the way Blogger converts the "~" symbol in the linking, preventing it from working)
12 more Google Maps games can be found here..


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These tactile, colorful tiles make learning fun and inspire imagination! Shapes are sized just right and easy to use, whether creating designs on a flat surface or building 3-dimensional structures. This deluxe 48-piece set helps children learn basic shapes through play and develops patterning, shape recognition, spatial problem-solving skills, and motor skills. In addition to solid, basic pieces, it also includes unique pieces with holes, an arch, a magnetic door, and a wheeled piece to add to the creative play. It's great for guided activities or hours of open-ended fun and exploration!
Set Contains: 12 Small Squares, 4 Large Squares, 6 Isosceles Triangles, 10 Right Triangles, 11 Equilateral Triangles, 1 Wheeled Piece, 1 Arch and 3 Special Shapes
- Includes 48 pieces in a variety of shapes
- Pieces magnetically connect on all sides to create designs on a flat surface of build 3D objects
- Develops patterning, shape recognition, spatial problem-solving skills & motor skills
- Can be used for guided activities or free play
- Can be combined with other Magna-Tile sets
Ages: 3 years & up

subset: commoncrawl


text: Pink Pepper is described as a "deep coral with gold pearl." It's a warm-toned, coral-orange with a gold sparkle and metallic finish. This was one of the more pigmented shades in the bunch; still semi-sheer applied dry, but mostly opaque applied damp. MAC Caribbean is darker, more orange. L'Oreal Cherie Merie is darker, more orange, less sparkly. See comparison swatches. (This shade is limited edition.)


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Registration takes less than 1 minute.
A spokesperson for the Port of Oakland said it will hire 500 additional workers to address a shortage in time for peak season in the fall.
An official from the U.S. Agency for International Development said discussions about the Maritime Security Program are ongoing.
The Federal Maritime Commission's report was based on feedback from industry leaders at four public forums held around the country to gauge the impacts of port congestion and examine possible solutions going forward.
Meanwhile, drayage drivers at Pacific 9 Transportation continue their strike in an attempt to be reclassified as employee drivers.
The future of the Export-Import Bank is still in doubt because it depends on passage of a long-term transportation bill that is expected to pass the Senate, but which faces strong opposition in the House.
Roadrunner's CEO Mark DiBlasi said the purchase of Stagecoach Cartage will expand its trucking network in the Southwest U.S. and along the Mexican border.


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Explore the basics of Flickr, from posting, organizing, and editing photos to participating in the Flickr community.
"I just bought a Nikon D5100, and am clueless about how it works. But your video has been a godsend to me. I can pause it, take notes, then return to the teaching. I guess there is hope for me to finally understand." —Noreen F.
more from our members »


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|293 posts found
Apprentice Member
Joined: 3/11/08
I love this game, but it does seem like a lot of people are getting bored. They really need to implement some serious competition into this game.
The "I want my name in the spotlight" players need something to keep them around. We need serious Guild vs Guild ranked matches and 1 vs 1 ranked dueling.
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Advanced Member
Joined: 8/21/07
I'm lvl 64 with 150 hrs played. Still having alot of fun, after the usual lvl 80, 100% world completion and all dungeons and full exotic/legendary I think GW2 will be like a lobby based PVP game for me, really loving sPVP and looking forward too Anet updating it as time goes on. Will take a loooong as time for anyone too reach max lvl PVP.
WvWvW is alot of fun too but saving that little gem for after I'm done with the PvE.
Advanced Member
Joined: 8/21/07
Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC
Hope they do 2v2, 3v3,4v4 etc matches with a ranking system, would be sweet.
Novice Member
Joined: 2/13/04
Great game but WvW turned out to be a massive dissapointment thanks to a downright retarded, cowardous and egotistical spirit in WvW.
im having a blast. about 120 hours in across 2 30's and 1 lvl 19, and rank 12 spvp. i feel like ive only scratched the surface of the game. it's beyond my comprehension how and why people are rushing to 80, and chewing through 300+ hours of content in 2 weeks. i dont care. i see myself playing GW2 for a long time.
my main gripe is that DE's require quite a bit of work still. ANet has acknowledged that scaling is not where it needs to be, and im confident DE's will get buffed shortly. DE's will be amazing in a few months. dungeons on the other hand are already a work of art.
Originally posted by stevebmbsqd
he doesnt need to argue. he's telling you he likes it, and why he likes it.
Novice Member
Joined: 3/31/07
playing since launch, been lvl 80 for a little while now, and still having lot of fun. Right now working on getting full set of exotics on my main, running explorables, and doing a bit of orr or map completion every now and then(only at 32% map completion right now). I have a couple of alts as well (highest alt is 30), planning on leveling them more at some point and taking my time with them compared to my main character. not going to be qutting any time thats for sure, still have a ton of things to do like more in depth exploration, wvw, personal story, map completion, crafting.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
I am just rolling along and enjoying the game at a relaxed pace.
I have not had as many guild invites as I have in other games. I continue to turn down invites because my game playing time is erratic.
I still have not participated in the pvp portions yet. This surprises me because I generally prefer to pvp in games. I think I am holding off until my real life schedule settles down a bit more. I find pvp is something I feel more obligated to do on a regular basis.
Novice Member
Joined: 3/31/07
Originally posted by Zefire
if you mean 70+fps in wvwvw as crap then i guess sure thats crap? i run this game on a laptop and i am on very high settings, the game does pretty fine for me. i can imagine it running even better on a budget gaming desktop.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
Elite Member
Joined: 10/29/07
Still having fun and starting to get my guild together as it should. we are right now waiting for a few friends who will join next week when they get salary.
The dungeons were kinda of a shock to some of our players that didnt realize that you actually need to gear up for dungeons but I played since the beta and still remember the older MMOs when that was standard.
Craftingwise is our guild still not that great, our crafting skills are yet just between 125-200 but we are working on it.
Havnt still put in so much PvP but a few of the guys joining next week are PvP fans so I plan to trap it up by then.
As I see it are the dungeons ANETs most important thing right now. The current ones still needs some adjustments and we also needs more of them. I hope next expansion will be focused on dungeons.
dungeons really are a "work of art". most fun ive had in PVE. ever.
Elite Member
Joined: 10/29/07
Originally posted by gessekai332
I have both a laptop and a high end system, both runs the game incredible well and I never seen so many people on screen in another game. My desktop is running the game maxed out while the laptop at default.
I have a feeling Zefire is using old GFX drivers...
My desktop stats:
AMD Penomenah II 3,2 (running at 3,5Ghz) x6, 8Gb ram, 480 GTX.
Joined: 1/12/07
As far as WvW goes, replying to the person who had issues with his melee character, fortunately or unfortunately gear and level play a major role in PvP. The more geared with exotics you are the easier it is to stay alive. Also glass cannon doesn't really work for melee. I found that both a defensive set of gear and a defensive build works better in a small group/ mass battle environment. I do have issues with solo encounters but they are rare compared to the overall time fighting in groups, small or big.
This game is so similar to Warhammer it's unbelievable. If you played that game too you'll remember that you could join at early levels. In that game too a fully geared max level character could steamroll the boosted low level people.
What I did with my guardian when he was undergeared (I didn't really bother to play at earlier to 80 levels due to the subpar scalling as I described it), was that I was running pure support builds. Now I'm at the point where I can rush an enemy group, pull them in (with luck) and have my group nuke my position and finish them off instead of going for the squishier members.
Originally posted by sonoggi
Dungeons are really the weakest part of the game. Either you undergear them and it's a massive struggle to get the synergies work in the RNG environment while rezzing and corpserunning, or you overgear them and it really doesn't matter much. Basically dungeons is what you get from any other mmorpg, just by removing the tank and the corpse locking that most employ.
Novice Member
Joined: 2/05/06
Having fun playing tournaments with my guildies. Level on my currently only PvE character - 45. Looking forward to more PvP content (pvp format that's more like GvG from GW1).
Elite Member
Joined: 12/04/08
Im lvl 80 on my main. I have 100% map completion. I am currently about to do the final dungeon in story mode which will also be the final chapter to my personal story from what i can tell. Im also trying to get myself geared up in full lvl 80 exotic gear with my preferred stat set up (close to halfway there). I play a tanky support necro. I have done some WvW.
Despite having done all of this, i still feel motivated to continue playing and am still having fun to the point of looking foward to logging back in every day after work. Today at work i met 2 girls who commented on my Guild Wars: factions t-shirt. We exchanged in game info and it looks like we will be playing together soon since it turned out they are also playing GW2. I think its the social component that people are missing, yet somehow expect the game to provide that for them some how. People complaining about dead guild chat channels should keep in mind that it is rather hard to play this game and type at the same time. If your not seeing much chat, its because people are actually playing the game. Go to town if you want to socialize. Or join a guild that uses voice chat that is active.
Hard Core Member
Joined: 12/01/11
Death cannot save you!
I have been lvl80 for almost 2 weeks now and am still having a blast, so much so that I havent even got round to starting an alt there is just way too much stuff to do yet.
I spent last weekend having an awesome time with my guild in WvW. I agree this can be a mass zerg but hey zeging is not the only thing to do. We spent hours running interference, for our server taking supply points, attacking undefended keeps to try and draw people away from the main keep our server was attacking. We also did some supply runs to help build seige engines etc. So for those that say WvW is just a zerg fest, sorry it is what you make it, either change guilds or join in with groups that are not following the zerg. Yes full exotic makes a difference to survivability but it is not exactly hard to get and my guild members who were not 80 still had a great time and were never face rolled except when we all were cos we unfortunately ran head on into an opposing servers zerg fest.
Dungeons I am loving, some are fast furious, fun and quite easy if you follow a competent leader and some give you that challenge where you need to get the party organised change some trait skills and weapons about. So there really is something for everyone from fast easy xp item farms to slower hard fought fun.
I have 75% of the map done, I still have loads to uncover and I have only so far done 2 jumping puzzles, my biggest problem is I keep getting held up by DEs. I realise it is easy to find the same DE going on over and over and over but it is also just as easy to find an event you have never seen before. For eg I usually grab up some mats in Queensdale everyday to sell on TH and it is fast easy way to also do daily, yesterday was 1st day did not see an event I had not done.
So in closing all I can say is if you are getting bored then try just experiencing the game and living in the world instead of following the usual MMO play style. I have yet to even enter sPvP though I did some during betas, I am saving that for when I need a break from all the other stuff the world has to offer.
Apprentice Member
Joined: 9/13/11
The game is vastly overrated that really breaks no new ground besides managing to be even more casual then WoW, which isn't really a good thing. That said it has alot to offer for $60 and no monthly fee. If you're looking for a good side game this may be the perfect one, if you want a new main MMO you will find this game very disappointing.
Even the PvP has no life breathed into it to give it purpose. You can't even play this as a main pvp game. I can't really imagine it going competitve as you have nothing to flaunt ladder wise and though fun at first gets stale quickly. The pvp is much better then WoW's but that really isn't saying much and thats not an esport either.
Hard Core Member
Joined: 1/04/05
Originally posted by laserit
I saw this and I just had to say, much of that is learning to play in a different way. I was having a similar discussion w/ some of my newer guildies earlier today. For most newcomers, AC story is ridiculously difficult. Many new players are even afraid of it. However, the dungeon is really not that hard. I've cleared it w/ new players, without any deaths, on multiple occasions.
The thing about AC that's great, is that it forces players to think about what they are doing, or suffer through it via dying over and over. Every boss has multiple ways in which he can be handled, and even the lovers can be killed with ease just by using your surroundings. The problem that I see a lot of new players make, is that they keep trying to play this game like it's WoW, when it's definitely not. Many players look for gear advantages, over proper skill useage / build synergy. Many players think the best way to get through dungeons is to go full-on glass cannon & have a guardian up infront tanking. However, such setups are usually doomed to fail, and result in the most deaths for the majority of the time.
The problem with dungeons right now, is that the difficulty is all over the place, with no real progression. The first dungeon (AC) is fine, but the second one (CM) is far too easy. The dungeons after that are also all over the place in terms of difficulty. Some dungeons (like CoF) have story modes that are harder than their explorable ones. I'd much rather GW2 kept going with the standard that AC set at the start, and lowered the amount of tokens required to get the dungeon loot. Have manageable difficulty at the start, force good habits & proper gameplay, and then expand upon that in later dungeons.
- Other than that I am having a blast, still. Some of the later dungeons are pretty fun & can get pretty challenging. The PvP is still pretty engaging, and I can still play at my own pace. If they could only fix / revamp the final dungeon I'd be thrilled!
Originally posted by XasapisOriginally posted by sonoggi
dungeons arent a massive struggle when ure undergeared. i just ran AC on my fresh lvl 30 guardian in like lvl 18 blues. most fun i ever had in a dungeon. it took us an hour, but we finished it. once you finish all the explorable mode paths, then it's no longer challenging. what's the problem with that?
secondly, with GW2's combat mechanics, dungeons are far from "what you get from any other mmorpg." give me a break.
Originally posted by JimmyYO
it breaks ground by:
- removing gear-dependent progression
- incorporating down-leveling so you can play with friends any time u want
- WvW (hasnt been done dince DAOC; we have it now, it's just better)
- balanced pvp (meaning each prof has multiple viable builds with multiple weapon sets; for an MMO, this is huge and a definite FIRST)
- DE's (they require tweaks, but are a huge success overall; new MMO's without a similar system will be laughed at)
- fresh combat mecha...
wait a minute. youre just trolling me bro! hah.


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India: Forts of Maharashtra - Here is a Google Map showing the locations of the Forts of Maharashtra in India. More history and information about these forts can be found here.
Egypt: Nile Delta Pyramids - Mostafa Hussein has set up this Google Map to show locations and photos of pyramids in the Nile delta using the Google Maps API.
Germany: distance between German/world cities - Use this Google Maps tool to determine the distance to other German and world cities. The tool is in German but should be quite straight forward to use.
Philippines: Various locations around Metro Manila - This map was created using the Google Maps API and has produced a Java webapp which receives updates via Smart Location Based Service (LBS). This map was to demonstrate this application but also stands to be the first Google Map I've found from the Philippines [via]
World: Tiki Bars + Google Maps - Here is a Google Map that will help you locate a tiki bar by rating, destination and category. It pulls from the database of these bars on Critiki.com. Learn more about what a tiki bar is here.
Technorati Tags: [india], [Egypt], [Germany], [philippines], [manila], [googlemaps], [googlemapsmania]


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Qatar Airways Support
posted this on November 4, 2012, 13:16
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Bale scored with two spectacular free-kicks in a 2-1 victory at White Hart Lane on Thursday night, putting Spurs in a decent position to make it through to the last 16 ahead of next week's second leg.
It had looked like Lyon would hold on for a draw thanks to their own wonder goal from Samuel Umtiti, but Bale had the final word to earn more praise from manager Villas-Boas.
"It is incredible. Not only his all-round game but also this ability he has to strike these free-kicks," said the Tottenham manager.
"The ball gains so much power when he strikes it and it changes direction so easily.
"Today we saw not just two moments of brilliance but three, because their goal was absolutely fantastic too."
Villas-Boas added: "It played out to be an excellent game, maybe the first half a bit more exciting because in the second half both teams struggled to get the ball on the ground and get moving.
"But we saw those moments of individual brilliance and Bale was fantastic also."


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Co-parenting arrangements with single women
If a gay man donates his sperm to a single woman with the intention of co-parenting any resulting child, it is likely that he will be treated as the child's legal father. If named on the birth certificate, he will also have parental responsibility for the child, and so the right to be involved in key decision-making in the child's upbringing.
His partner may also be able to acquire status in respect of the child and there are a number of options:
• If the couple are civil partners, they may sign a parental responsibility agreement (together with the birth mother) to confer parental responsibility on the father's partner. This will give the non-biological father authority to make parental decisions, although he will not be treated as a parent for the purposes of inheritance, making it important for him to put in place a will.
• If the couple are not civil partners, they may be able to apply for a joint residence order, again giving the non-biological father parental responsibility.
• Adoption is unlikely to be a suitable option, because one of its effects would be to extinguish the birth mother's legal status as a parent, and this is usually not appropriate in co-parenting situations.
Those involved in the arrangement may wish to consider exploring their options and putting in place a co-parenting agreement.
If there is a breakdown in the co-parenting relationship (or in the relationship between the fathers), the court will have powers to make orders in the best interests of the child. The various parties involved may have different rights to make different types of applications to the court, depending on the circumstances.
Co-parenting arrangements with lesbian couples
The legal position regarding co-parenting arrangements where a gay man/couple donates sperm to a lesbian couple is more complex. Following the changes implemented by the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act 2008, lesbian couples who conceive with donated sperm are likely to be treated as both being the parents of their child (see further above). One of the effects of this is to exclude the status of the child's biological father.
This means that, in respect of children conceived after 6 April 2009, a gay father who donates sperm to a lesbian couple may have no legal recognition as a parent. If the lesbian couple he is donating to are civil partners, the father's status will be automatically excluded. If the lesbian couple he is donating to are not civil partners, the mothers may be able to choose whether they wish the child's second parent to be the father or the non-birth mother.
Such situations are complex and legal advice is recommended.


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- Accommodate capacity growth with scale-out performance for both random-access and streaming file workloads
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The demand to store and manage massive amounts of file data continues to challenge data centers. IBM Scale Out Network Attached Storage (SONAS) is designed to embrace and deliver cloud storage in the petabyte age. SONAS can meet today's storage challenges with quick and cost-effective IT-enabled business enhancements designed to grow with unprecedented scale.
SONAS can also deliver storage services that make the supporting technology almost invisible. It allows applications and services to be uncoupled from the underlying infrastructure, enabling businesses to adjust to change quickly. As a result, SONAS can easily integrate with your organization's strategies to develop a more dynamic enterprise.
Contact IBM
- Request a quote
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Call IBM: 1-877-426-42641-877-426-4264
Priority code: Storage
Browse System Storage
Related links
IBM SONAS video
Scale Out Networking Attached Storage provides leading file server capabilities to the petabyte level
Expect more from your storage
See how easy it is to manage your storage equipment with the IBM System Storage GUI
Why IBM SONAS with IBM Active Cloud Engine
Discover what makes IBM SONAS with Active Cloud Engine unique
Evaluator Group analyst paper
IBM's Portfolio Approach to Data Protection


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Find the perfect hotel in Watts using our hotel guide provided below. Find cheap and discounted hotel/motel rates in or nearby Watts, CA for your business or personal leisure travel. We provide the best Watts California hotel rooms. Review the Watts hotel list below to find the perfect lodging. We also have a map of the Watts hotels. Coordinating a group? Get Watts Group Hotel Discounts
Watts Hotels & Accommodations
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|55 posts found
Associate Editor - News Manager
Joined: 6/28/10
There is a thought ghosting around the edges of the MMO community that somehow these massive games we play are supposed to be 'winnable'. But is that reasonable? Find out in today's Devil's Advocate why we don't think so. Join the conversation in the comments!
Read more of Victor Barreiro Jr.'s The Devil's Advocate: Don't Wanna Win.
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Advanced Member
Joined: 11/08/08
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.
This is why swtor failed. You reached end game with all your companions at level 50. There was no more story left. All that was left was meaningless pvp, and enless dailies, and the ocasional raid.
You don't want to win your mmorpg because when you do your done. Kind of like playing a console game.
Managing Editor
Joined: 7/28/06
It's funny, because Victor and I think a lot alike. Horizontal progression helps, but even that can end. It's the worst feeling. A world, a game, that's not supposed to end... and then it does.
I mean, yes, you can keep going but often times for me... I just don't see the point. It's why I plan on campaigning for games to start trying to experiment with endless progression, systems based-design, and less focus on content and level caps.
Novice Member
Joined: 9/24/10
The problem with censorship is ********
Originally posted by BillMurphy
What do you mean by "system based-design"?
Managing Editor
Joined: 7/28/06
Avoid relying on content like quests, dungeons, and scripted events that take thousands of man hours and millions of dollars, and instead get it right from the start and put the power in players' hands.
Quests, dungeons, and all that? Love 'em. But relying on them as a designer is like forcing yourself to run uphill at full sprint with a 3,000 lb. semi strapped to your back... and expecting to be able to do that for years and years even though you age and the money you need to do it inevitably shrinks.
Novice Member
Joined: 9/24/10
The problem with censorship is ********
Originally posted by BillMurphy
I think I understand what you mean. Do you have an example of a sucessfull system that is not somehow related to pvp? Besides stuff like mods and pure content creation by players(which can be fun, but it's not for everyone and the level of entartainment from them can vary greatly), I can't think of a single system that could be player driven and at the same time be only pve.
Elite Member
Joined: 2/27/07
I think all games you eventually get bored with, some sooner than others. I know I eventually grew bored with UO, bored with SWG, even though they were in the sandbox mold I desire. I did go back to them though more than once though. Theme park games though I can quickly get bored with, even Wow. Cataclysm lasted about 3 months for me because I have a lot of alts, have not even thought about trying the new expansion, just do not believe there is any fun left in that game.
I don't think any of the current games can keep people's attention for long these days. So many of the upcoming sandbox games think you need ffa pvp to be a sandbox, which is far from the truth. Ok having such in some areas, but not throughout the game, it is a death knell to do so. To be a good game you need casual areas along with the dangerous ones.
Levels are to me one of the biggest indicators that your time in the game is short when you reach the top tier. Developers should get rid of them or minimize them, like Turbine did in AC1. You need an extensive skill system to do so I believe. Good systems will keep people playing too, they are extremely important.
Just have to take a wait and see attitude for these future games, hoping that at least one of the development teams gets it.
Hard Core Member
Joined: 6/11/10
Great article! This happens to me too, since forever. As a kid, i hated when cartoons series ended. As a teenager, i did not want to finish books. As an adult with a kid's heart, i don't want the video games "to end". For example, i loved TSW. Loved it so much that i've ran through the content in two weeks, and felt incredibly bad when all "ended". The feeling that "ok, now it's done, you have to gear up and grind instances, WoW-like" was the worst feeling i've got lately from a game.
Yeah, i feel the same. To have the right systems in place is a much much more important thing for me than actually having sick ammounts of new content. I've realized that the "content" lately became just something annoying which i only do just to "get rid of. I want to be a part of something alive, something linked by those systems, and not some guy who gets his thrill from +30 sta and +20 int on that new piece of gear.
Elite Member
Joined: 3/30/10
I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.
Originally posted by BillMurphy
Not to mention the reality that a full team working 2 years can generate enough content for about 3 months (or less) of high effort content consumption.
Either expansion packs need to be made faster, or content consumed more slowly. I don't see either happening.
Novice Member
Joined: 3/25/11
I fully agree with this point of view you have brought up. Eve online as mentioned is a fine example of this.
Upcoming MMO WildStar is probably pushing the genre to that viewpoint, catering different kinds of players with different kinds of playstyles, especially showing that it's possible to not focuse on combat but building and achieving things in other ways.
Three cheers for a world built by its inhabitants.
The sylvari ordered Rice n chicken in a bar. The waiter asked him: "exploded or intact?" He angrily answered: "Intact of course! Do you take me for a fool?"
Those were his last words.
Novice Member
Joined: 4/01/11
Ahh devil ether.
Originally posted by BillMurphy
C'mon Mr. Murphy. Get your facts straight. A semi truck weighs approximately 15,000 to 20,000 pounds. Depending on the truck, the cabin can weigh between 9 to 12 tons. With trailer it can tip the scales at 30,000 lbs when empty.
I think it adds more weight to your example though. :P
Novice Member
Joined: 8/14/07
Yeah getting Sword Art Online mmorpg ideas to make this thread, too bad sword art online doesnt exist in real life ^^
Elite Member
Joined: 6/10/09
Originally posted by Kuppa
Lineage was pvp based, but offered a pve only server. People still did a lot of pvp though, but it's wasn't 24/7 ganking even on the modified open pvp server (Lands of Aden).
What made that game so open ended, even though it had a level cap, was a combination of very slow leveling, potentially endless gear enhancement with a risk of gear loss, player made factions instead of contrived factions, some dungeon access was player control while others were totally open, all public dungeons, and the ability to do content with 1+ people.
There is a tradeoff for systems like that though. They have to be open with limited direction and constraints. Lineage wasn't really even a sandbox or a themepark. It was just totally open and free in that you could do what you wanted with your character in the world.
I think it could happen in pve or if pvp was different. Instead of actually "killing" a character in pvp make the pve component competitive. It's still player versus player competition, but not in the explicitly stabby sense. If systems could be designed around that and participation in the actual competition not negatively impact those who aren't at the top we would have a winner. And by not affecting the 90% of player base I mean that they could still enjoy progression and pve, but the nicest things would be resource limited. Hell, if it was well designed someone could compete through different methods. Maybe some would adventure for the rare items, while others crafted, while others worked the trade system to obtain rare items. Allowing players to become powerful through the methods they like to play is key in my opinion.
Advanced Member
Joined: 9/18/09
I play games to win. It's all about competition for me. If there's no challenge or competition to be had I'm moving on. Reaching cap or the end of progression if you will in an MMO is hardly winning the game IMO as a competitive PvP player.
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Joined: 6/22/09
+! Sword Art Online!
Apprentice Member
Joined: 2/28/12
There is an entire generation coming into their 20's now that were brought up getting a trophy for last place.
The "Everybody is a Winner" Generation is going to be nothing but trouble for every aspect of our lives. It has already started.
No thought. No effort. Just show up and get a trophy. That is what games are like now. Games like Wow brought them into the genre by the millions. The gaming industry is now ran by bean counters and will never go back to the way MMORPGs use to be.
We need a MMORPG gamer to develope an old school MMORPG with the acknowledgement that, that said game will not have millions of players, but will be badass for the tens of thousands that are waiting for such game.
Censorship is intended to create an illusion that one side of the debate is correct and unopposed. Silence is not consent.
After defeating lich king I lost all interest, then deathwing came after I beat him I lost all interest I'm sure the same will happen in mop.
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Joined: 3/28/12
Originally posted by Kuppa
How about player housing? Combined with a complex crafting and exploring (for gathering) system it works like a charm. Of course not everyone will enjoy it. I play RIFT (mostly dimensions, which is housing) and some people literally asked me "why do it when you don't get any gear from it?". But it is a system put in place where there's limitless content (you can pack up your dimension and restart/build in another one you purchase) with a lot of freedom (here's space, here's legos, have fun) and it doesn't modify the game. It's no content other than social.
Crafting is another system put in place that, combined with gathering and item decay and item/material rarity, gives a lot of content and things to do. Let's just say you want your awesome chestpiece repaired or you'll lose it due to it falling apart, you'll have to visit a skilled armoursmith and maybe he can repair it, else you'll have to find the materials for a new one. This also gives a vibrant economy. (No auction house would also help community interaction, but that's up for debate). The crafting system would have to be way more complex than let's say WoW/RIFT/SWTOR/Aion/Tera/everything themepark. I think GW2 recipe discovery is a step in the right direction, but the crafting overall is pretty meaningless.
That's 2 examples of systems. A third one (which does have pvp) is making the higher level zones forced pvp and add a system for open world pvp that gives faction bonuses, direct ones. I played a game called Shaiya. It was a Korean grinder/pvp game, but the pvp system was great. Every x amount of kills you got more stat points, which made you stronger (tiers at 1,50,300,1000,5000,10000, etc... up to 200k kills). Also there was bless, a system by which you had to kill altars to claim them for your side and get favor from the goddess you fought for. This was a constant battle and came with nice bonuses (less xp loss on death, higher crit chance, higher hp/mp/sp, etc...). Eventually the faction-wide bless bar was full and for 10 minutes you became god-like superstrong. The other faction lost it's bless and after those 10 minutes all altars were set to neutral. Destroying an enemy altar lowered their bless whilst upping yours. Don't play the game though, it's hugely pay to win :P (unless you're into that stuff)
That's 3 good systems. Put them in a nice world with good combat and I'd be playing
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy
Novice Member
Joined: 3/28/12
Originally posted by NorseGod
I think it's more that the whole gaming market and the MMO market has been opened up to wider audiences, who have the time nor the interest to invest into the world and their characters. I know plenty of people that play MMORPGs casually and like the rewarding systems and what's not, but fear a more complex game takes too much of their time or doesn't lead to fast fun. Most of these people are working/parents/whatever and not the generation of 20-year olds (I'm 21 FYI) that you claim them to be. As far as I know most of them play LoL and CoD. I'm sure it's spread over the whole spectrum, because I'm sure I just haven't met those of my age yet that only do stuff for rewards. And for the last statement I do agree and that's why it's probably best for an indie dev to pull something like that off.
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy
Great article! I have felt the same way myself. I lasted almost 9 or 10 years playing MMORPGs without ever reaching level cap. I never desired to get there. I knew that game would end for me if I ever did.
They don't call it "end game" for nothing :)


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BRISTOL, Va. — Charles Henry Meeks, 64, of Bristol, Va., passed away Saturday, October 6, 2012, in the James H. Quillen V.A. Medical Center in Johnson City, Tenn.
Born October 3, 1948, in Logan, he was a son of Bill and Joy McDonald Meeks, and a grandson of the late Henry and Macy Meeks.
Mr. Meeks was a U.S. Army Veteran, serving in Vietnam.
Survivors include his wife, Doneva Meeks; daughters, Mellisa Fralix and Michelle Meeks, both of Okeechobee, Fla.; son, Charles Sammuel Meeks of Fort Collins, Colo.; grandchildren, Nathaniel Meeks, Austin Fralix, Luke Bigel, Savon Meeks, Catlyn Meeks and Nicole Fralix; brother, William Meeks; sisters, Deborah Swims and Belinda Crumb; sister-in-law, Karen Stevens; brother-in-law, Russell Lowe, and eight nieces and nephews.
Committal services and inurnment will be conducted at 2 p.m. Thursday, October 11, at Mountain Home National Cemetery at Mountain Home, Tenn., with Chaplain Kevin Holmes officiating. Military Honors will be conducted by the Bristol VFW Honor Guard.
Condolences may left at www.BlevinsCares.com
Mr. Meeks and his family are in the care of Blevins Funeral & Cremation Services of Bristol, Va.


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A bill co-sponsored by local S.C. Sen. Shane Massey looks to transform state government, but details must be hashed out in conference committee before it can be moved forward in 2014.
The proposal would dissolve much of the authority of the state's Budget and Control Board, a five-member panel that controls a variety of the state's budgetary functions.
Currently, the Board operates as an executive body with the authority to approve state agency spending, including whether agencies can run deficits or borrow money.
The restructuring measure failed in the Senate at the end of the past two-year legislative session, leaving it to be reintroduced for the General Assembly's 2013-2014 session.
Massey said the bill would strip authority from the Board, giving more executive-related functions to the governor, while adding more oversight authority to the legislature.
The governor, treasurer and comptroller general serve on the Board, as well as the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee and the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee.
Massey added that the proposal has gained bipartisan support, including from the governor, particularly since it would delineate power in a more sensible way and make government more accountable.
"Every time I talk about the Budget and Control Board on the Senate floor, I refer to it as a shadow government because it doesn't really matter what we pass in the budget. If they want to spend more money, they can do it," Massey said.
As an example, he pointed to the Board's decision to borrow $20 million from the state's insurance reserve fund to pay for bills associated with the hacking of taxpayer's personal data in 2012.
"It was really just a creative way to run a deficit without calling it a deficit," he said about the Board's decision. The restructuring bill as it stands now would prevent deficits as well as interagency loans to be permitted without legislative approval.
Massey noted that by giving more review power to the legislature, it brings added transparency to state government, especially since the legislature rarely holds oversight hearings.
"It doesn't mean the legislature would micromanage. We're getting away from that. But the legislature does need to know what's going on, and we need to make sure money is being spent appropriately and that policies are being carried out the way the law intends."
The proposal would see the creation of a cabinet-level agency known as the Department of Administration, which would receive most of the executive duties of the Board.
Even though the General Assembly has adjourned for 2013, the plan can still be considered when the legislature reconvenes next January without having to be reintroduced.
Despite the idea failing in the past, Massey said he's more confident that the proposal could gain traction due to the legislation's bipartisan appeal and a different makeup in the legislature after the 2010 and 2012 elections.
Michael Ulmer covers the county government beat for the Aiken Standard and has been with the newspaper since March 2013. He is a native of North Augusta and majored in political science at the University of South Carolina.
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J. Peter Nixon January 22, 2010 - 7:34pm
Its over.Seventeen years ago, I was a health policy analyst for the Service Employees International Union and having the time of my life. President Clinton had been elected in November of 1992, and the union became deeply engaged in the fight to pass comprehensive health care reform legislation. In addition to writing countless reports, fact sheets and pieces of congressional testimony, I got to fly around the country speaking to union members about the bill and encouraging them to support it. We were working days, nights, and weekends. I felt like a warrior in a great and holy cause.In the summer of 1994, however, it all came crashing down. The Presidents bill was complex and difficult to explain. It was criticized by both liberals and conservatives within the Presidents own party. Support for the bill withered in the face of an advertising campaign led by the health insurance and small business lobbies. Eventually, the Democratic Congressional leadership ran for the hills, not even bringing the bill to a vote on the floor.I remember the last few days before it became clear that health care reform was dead. We were rushing around, trying to find something, anything that we could take to the floor that would pass. The idea that we could have worked this hard for two and a half years only to end up with nothing was just too painful to contemplate.Sound familiar?A few weeks ago someone asked me how I was feeling about the prospects for health care reform, given that the legislation had moved closer to passage than in any previous attempt. Im like those Boston Red Sox fans in 2004, I responded. Im not going to believe it until the final out.Well, it turned out to be 1986 not 2004. Again.Im joking because if I dont laugh, Ill cry. I work in health care. I know that health insurance makes a difference in peoples lives. It means that we catch cancer early, that people with hypertension avoid a heart attack, that diabetics hold on to their kidneys and toes, that people with depression get the treatment they need to face down soul-crushing sadness.My mother had an Uncle Bobby who was a driver for a small New England trucking company. He had 10 kids. He died in his early 40s from a heart attack. His kids grew up without a father and his wife was a widow at a terribly young age.If Bobby had been alive today, wed have the tools to help keep him alive. Weve got drugs to manage cholesterol and hypertension, health educators and nutritionists to help him develop new eating habits, and patient registries and alerts to track him if hes overdue for tests. Our patients have a cardiac death rate 30 percent below the statewide average. Health insurance and access to high quality health care makes a difference.Yes, yes, I know, the bills werent perfect. But they were better than a lot of people realize and probably the best that we were going to get in the year 2010. As Donald Rumsfeld might have said, you go to war with the Congress you have. With 30 million more people getting coverage, Im sure we would have saved more than a few Uncle Bobbies.Its possible that we may still be able to move the ball downfield. In the wake of the collapse of comprehensive reform in 1994, Congress passed the Health Insurance Portability and Privacy Act (HIPAA) in 1996 and the State Childrens Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) in 1997. The latter was the most significant expansion of public health insurance since Medicaid began in the 1960s.Painful as it is to say it, though, I dont expect that we will see much progress this year. The Obama Administration has clearly decided they need to focus more on job creation and financial reform in the run-up to the November elections. Without presidential leadership on health careand perhaps, to be fair, even with itmany members of Congress will not be willing to take any more tough votes on this issue.At times like this, I am inclined to recall words from the late Senator Edward Kennedy, who championed health care reform throughout his legislative career. They were words that he offered in the wake of another difficult defeat:
For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die.
Commenting Guidelines
I don't know about rights, but I believe health care (that's health care, not health insurance) is a basic human need, right up there with food, water and shelter. People can and do die without these things. I have pretty secure health insurance (for the duration of my husband's life) but I would be happy to pay more taxes so other people could have the same. The NY Times today has an article about a battle between a local hospital consortium and United Healthcare (which has 1 million subscribers in NY) over reimbursement rates and admissions approvals. The insurer is seeking major concessions from the hospitals and is, at the same time, seeking a rate increase from subscribers. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/25/health/policy/25insure.html?ref=nyregion
Irene said: "The NY Times today has an article about a battle between a local hospital consortium and United Healthcare (which has 1 million subscribers in NY) over reimbursement rates and admissions approvals. The insurer is seeking major concessions from the hospitals and is, at the same time, seeking a rate increase from subscribers."Let's look at this in the context of the discussion above. Your last sentence could imply that the insurance company is trying to squeeze both the hospitals and the subscribers, with the implication that they are seeking a cost cut on one side and a premium increase on the other. The article doesn't say, however, that United Healthcare is going to get a cost cut from the hospital. It said that the insurer led off the negotiation with a cost cut while the hospital led off the negotiation with a large price increase. And even if the insurer got a cost cut, it still has maybe 120 or more hospitals in the system whose costs are going up as well.The "admissions approvals" is actually a request for notification of admission, not an approval of admission. This is so the insurance company can put case managers on the case. The hospital at several points in the article wants to imply that these case managers are accountants. They are actually doctors and nurses. They are not trying to dictate care. They are trying to make sure that the care falls into the best evidence based guidelines for care. Also, the managers deal with the patients as well as the doctors to make sure that the patients follow their medical instruction, take their medications, get adequate follow ups, etc. The hospital doesn't like the idea that their payment would be cut for non-compliance because the pay cut would actually force them to comply and they do not want to be monitored in this way. The hospital is always going to argue that the insurance company is not qualified to monitor standards of care. The hospital is never going to accept any downside consequences for quality of care.
Unagidon: But the article does say the insurer is seeking cuts from the hospitals and increases from the subscribers. It may be a negotiation tactic, but it is still trying to do both at the same time. And the Oklahoma hospital consortium struggling to meet the "notification" requirement says it "doesnt feel to us like cost control, it feels like a revenue stream enhancement to the insurance companies".
UnagidonYour answer to my questions (especially the first one) actually demonstrates why people like me are suspicious of the motivations behind health care reform. Is it about helping people or equalizing them? If what we end up with in 10 or 15 years is a system that is wonderfully equal but inferior, have we solved the problem or just covered it up?
AnnFirst, I am not sure whay you are asking me this, but I would just say this is a faulty economic argument. Take for example a man who owns a factory. It employs 500 people. It is worth $500 million. Tax money that goes to protect it, provide transportation infrastructore etc. doen't just benefit the owner. If the place burns down, the owner is probably the person least affected in terms of day-to-day existence. The workers, suppliers, service providers, transporters of goods, creditors and on and on and on all have an interest in the factory that tax money helps satisfy.Moreover, not all tax provided services bear a relationship to wealth at all - in fact most don't. Since we are talking about health care, if Bill Gates pays $50million a year in txes and under a nationalized system $2million goes for the health care system, is he getting $2million in benefit?JeanAs for "living with casualties" - I would turn to you and ask, are you willing to live with the casualties that would occur under a nationalized universal system? I am not willing to live with casualties at all in the sense that I think they are inevitable. Like you, I want to see everyone covered, but I would like to see it in a high quality system.
Sean said: "Your answer to my questions (especially the first one) actually demonstrates why people like me are suspicious of the motivations behind health care reform. Is it about helping people or equalizing them? If what we end up with in 10 or 15 years is a system that is wonderfully equal but inferior, have we solved the problem or just covered it up?"And you'd have a right to be suspicious if there was a necessary relationship between Brazil's universal care and Brazil's quality of care. But there isn't and the proof is that I am sure you would rather get your heart transplant in France or Germany than Brazil (to name three countries with universal systems). It seems that some people believe that since the quality of American health care is high and was produced under the current system, it follows that if we depart from the current system the quality of health care will decline. We can talk about what kind of a theory of capitalism we would have to have for this to be true. But it strikes me (as a businessman) American capitalism seems tough, innovative, and robust until someone wants to change the current business environment. Then it turns into a tiny little hothouse flower shivering in the sun.
This is an excellent discussion with too many well-made points for me to agree with individually. Just a couple of comments:* If the majority of American voters wanted health care reform, it would have been done by now. The most important question is, 'Why is reform so unpopular?' My hypothesis is that voters are afraid. They are afraid of the state of the economy, they are afraid that if they do lose their jobs they wont be be able to find others, they are afraid because their wealth and savings were halved or worse in the recent recession. So many things that formerly were taken for granted are now uncertain. We live in a time of paralyzing fear. And so, faced with losing one more thing that they want to be able to take for granted (doctor visits and prescription fills with cheap copays, and affordable treatment for catastrophic health problems), voters are clinging tenaciously to the status quo. Just my reading of the psychology of the moment.Btw, if I am right about this - that fear is the overriding emotion right now - then a path is being laid for a demagogue to ascend to power. That is what we got in 1980 - an amiable demagogue. Someone who will say, 'I will make your fears go away.'* I do agree with Unagidon that the market by itself will never provide affordable health care for the poor, just as it doesn't provide affordable decent housing for the poor. If the market fails that sector and the government doesn't step in, we're left with what Jean described: suffering, begging and some private almsgiving that isn't nearly comprehensive enough.Folks who have read my comments here know that I am in favor of markets and don't have a high opinion of the efficiency or efficacy of government programs. But I recognize that the government is the last resort for basic human needs, and I believe that is where we are with health care.(btw, Jean, don't worry about hogging threads. Post more!)
If what we end up with in 10 or 15 years is a system that is wonderfully equal but inferior, have we solved the problem or just covered it up?Sean,It depends on what you mean by "inferior." Suppose we are talking about food, where the rich are eating filet mignon and caviar and drinking expensive wine, and the poor are undernourished. If it were possible to even things out a bit so that the poor could afford decent, basic nutrition, and the rich had fewer luxuries, would that be objectionable? Suppose it is necessary to provide everyone with health care to put a limit on extremely expensive care in order to pay for basic care for people who now must go to the ER if they want to see a doctor. Would that be a wonderfully equal but inferior system?
My hypothesis is that voters are afraid. Jim,I think you are correct. The question is whether or not they should be. I think Obama and the Democratic Party have failed to make the case that they should not be, and the Republicans have very effectively intensified people's natural fears (death panels! deficits! government takeover! socialism!). So both major parties are to blame, but of course the Democrats have merely failed to do what is good, whereas the Republicans have done is evil. Speaking objectively, of course.
"I think you are correct. The question is whether or not they should be [afraid]. I think Obama and the Democratic Party have failed to make the case that they should not be, and the Republicans have very effectively intensified peoples natural fears (death panels! deficits! government takeover! socialism!). "If people are afraid, I'd think the thing to do would be to demonstrate that they needn't be afraid. One of the commenters (it may have been Patrick Molloy - apologies if I'm misattributing) has suggested a couple of times that, rather than spring a vast new program on the entire country at once, we "proof-of-concept" it by running a much smaller scale test pilot program. Pick a representative sample of counties from around the country and show us how mandatory insurance would work, how insurance exchanges would work, and so on. If it works as well as it's purported to, we can ramp up from there.
I agree with you David, about your filet mignon analogy, and like your sly joke about objectivity.In order to prepare the public for this sort of thing, someone needs to explain the matter in terms people can readily understand, for example that the public should consider this as a matter of practical Christianity and not a matter of politics.Once the need to universal health coverage is adequately explained, and is settled in the minds of most Americans, two key issues stand out as needing to be explained:1 - The American public does not want to pay for abortions2 A national health insurance plan needs to cover everyone living here and that includes the indocumentados.No one party can simply breeze into this sort of reform without the proper preparation. Democrats have tried this before and failed. In fact the only Democrat who really tried to explain the need for national health insurance was President Truman. Granted he did not succeed, but at least he made the honest effort to explain the matter. Since then, Democrats have simply tried to ram this through any time they had the chance and each time, they have irritated the public to the point where they get temporarily voted out of office. Frankly, that seems likely to happen again.
Irene said: "But the article does say the insurer is seeking cuts from the hospitals and increases from the subscribers. It may be a negotiation tactic, but it is still trying to do both at the same time. And the Oklahoma hospital consortium struggling to meet the notification requirement says it doesnt feel to us like cost control, it feels like a revenue stream enhancement to the insurance companies."Please see what I wrote about his on the new thread.Of course the Oklahoma hospital consortium would say that. They want to make it sound like the notification thing is some sort of "gotcha". But unless the hospitals have really rotten billing and notification systems that would generate these all the time, how could this end up being something as major as a "revenue stream" for a payer. Could it be just as likely that they don't like the idea that they would now have to comply with their own contracts?
"Like you, I want to see everyone covered, but I would like to see it in a high quality system."Does not sound honorable to me, Sean. Unless looking out for #1 is our motivation for life. So what happens to the concept of the Body of Christ? So if others are hurting they should stay in pain because otherwise they will give me pain. What is wrong for the rest of us to put up with some lack of quality which to others amounts to great care. Seems very materialistic and non-Christian to me. You can choose to prefer not to lose quality of service while helping others. Just understand that it is not Christian.
I read where if a House-Senate compromise version of the proposed Congressional-Obama plan were actually made law, then fully 95 percent of Americans would be covered; the 95 percent noted in the article came from Nancy Pelosi or her office.Keeping in mind the 30 million Americans (and probably 10 million indocumentados) without medical coverage was one reason Democrats initially took up health care reform, and that there are about 300 million Americans; the upshot is that before any health care reform was considered, some 10 percent of Americans did not have coverage. And so if Congress enacts some version of the current reform plans (House and Senate) and spends the money as called for (a great sum of money it seems); some 5 percent of Americans (15 million people) will still not have coverage, and none of the indocumentados will be covered.Hmm.
CBO and JCT estimate that the direct spending and revenue effects of enacting the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act incorporating the managers amendment would yield a net reduction in federal deficits of $132 billion over the 2010-2019 period. Decreasing the budget by $132 billion does not seem to me like spending "a great sum of money". Or am I misunderstanding this quote from the CBO Director's Blog?
Sean --Sorry to have misdirected my post to you. Thanks for replying anyway.Let me just say to your point that the richest rich have mainly what Keynes called "human goods subject to gravity" as opposed to other goods that can't be measured accurately. (Leave it to a first-rate genius to think up such a beautifully simple distinction :-) It seems to me that the goods you mentioned which are shared by the manufacturer and his employee are not in the subject-to-gravity category and so are not germane to my point. My point attempted to show by means of a measurable goods that the richer you are the more benefits you get from government by way of protection of your assets.When thinking about fair taxes you might bear in mind Leona Helmsley's infamous remark, "Only the little people pay taxes".
David,Unfortunately that's not what we're talking about. The cause of our health care financing problems is not the equivalent of filet treatments. We aren't in trouble because people are getting luxury care.The reality is that what is an inferior system is subjective to a great extent. Any choice will have trade offs. For example, I will admit that the French have what seems to be a very responsive and relatively inexpensive primary care system. They also have a system that does not use diagnostic tests at nearly the level of the US system - one of the things that makes it more expensive. However, French survival rates for most forms of cancer are far lower than in the US. So while your chance of getting cheap quick and universal primary care is better there, so is your chance of dying from cancer.We have a system that nearly 90% coverage and more than 80% of people have some level of satisfaction with the quality. So, I think that a system in which there is 100% covergae but most people aren't satisfied is inferior unless you think that acceessability is the sole criteria for judging the quality of the system.
AnnI don't know about human goods subject to gravity, but I do understand that the value of something is based on the what someone is willing to pay for it, or in that case of taxes the point to which someone is willing to put up with it.The problem with your view is that most of this wealth is not tied up in anything consumable, but in things tha themselves produce wealth. This mentality that is not about fairness, but based in resentment is ultimately destructive. There will get to be a point at which either the productive assets go elsewhere or when the owner finds it simply not worth the effort and risk to use them because so much of the return is eaten up by taxes.As for Leona - aside from being a nasty person, she apparently was an economic moron, and of course a a criminal. The reality is that "little people' pay relatively few taxes. This may be appropriate, but it shouldn't be an excuse for confiscatory taxation.
I just want to say I found Peter's introduction excellent but disagree with Jim that the comentary is execellent as well -a Scrooge like approach that says it's awful to pick a man's pocket to to help others.Bah humbug to that!
Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?
"Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?"Workhouses? There aren't even any jobs!
Oh please, Bob. Stop with the Scrooge nonsense.For years I have been listening to the left use this tired condemnation of the other side's generosity. What we need is effec tive answers to problems. Not answers that make us feel good and leave the people you say you want to help worse off.Spend some time in a public housing project or a welfare office. These are monuments to the idea that really smart people with enough tax money can solve any problem. Foolish non-Scrooge-like ideas like rent control provided cheap housing to the wealthy and condemned thousands of poor and middle class people to dilapidated housing or forced them to leave urban centers all together.I just happen to think that a system that places as much of the decision making authority about value and expenditures in the hands of the people actually using a system tends in the long run to be more beneficial than one that places almost all decision making in the hands of the government.In fact, as maybe Mark is pointing out - Scrooge is the liberal assuming that the state takes care of the problem - the charitable subscribers are the conservatives in the story.
"For years I have been listening to the left use this tired condemnation of the other sides generosity. What we need is effec tive answers to problems. Not answers that make us feel good and leave the people you say you want to help worse off."Sean, just because the Left always says this doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't true..."Spend some time in a public housing project or a welfare office. These are monuments to the idea that really smart people with enough tax money can solve any problem. Foolish non-Scrooge-like ideas like rent control provided cheap housing to the wealthy and condemned thousands of poor and middle class people to dilapidated housing or forced them to leave urban centers all together."They are monuments to failed experiments. But teh government experiments were in reaction to market failures. How come private sector entrepreneurs are allowed to fail as a matter of principle without it being a failure of capitalism, but if a government program fails, it proves that government can't solve a problem?"I just happen to think that a system that places as much of the decision making authority about value and expenditures in the hands of the people actually using a system tends in the long run to be more beneficial than one that places almost all decision making in the hands of the government."Here is the crux of the issue. You are not defining the poor as the users of the system. You are defining the tax payers (or the private sector). The poor have no power in the market, except through their votes. The market may attempt to create solutions for these problems (and fail) or government may attempt to produce solutions (and also fail). But there are several things for sure. First, political power is not opposed to economic power. Political power and economic power are simply two kinds of power in a society, but different people have different levels of access to them. People use the power they have. Second, any solution will be a mix of government and private power. The people whose power is mostly economic will try to control the thing economically and the people whose power is mostly political will try to control the thing politically. This isn't some kind of nascent socialism. It's democratic capitalism. Or to put it in purely market terms; the government CAN'T intervene unless there's already a market vacuum of some sort. This is why we are talking so much about health care, where the market has failed, and not cheeseburgers, where the market has not.
UnagidonHas the market failed? Or was there never a real market to begin with? Most critics (including the president) trace the underlying problem with our system to the use of employer provided health financing and specifically the provision of health care as a non-taxable form of income. It wasn't a free market failure, but government regulation that resulted in the problem. This all happened at the same time that most of the rest of the world was moving toward socialist models. That isn't the only model.
Sean, I'm in the private sector and what I am seeing in health care is a market. The regulation in it is irrelevant. For a market to exist, there has to be a buyer and a seller. I don't care if the seller is the employer or the member. Makes no difference at all. There is no impediment that I am aware of in terms of regulations that prevent anyone whatsover from buying their own personal insurance policy in the United States. It's just that for many people, these policies would be far more than they could ever possibly afford. That is a market problem, not a regulatory problem. If we took away all regulations at every level, we would still have buyers and sellers and I would still only be selling people who were buyers (i.e. who had the money in their hand). And there would be a lot of people out there (at least 30 million) whose empty hands would not be holding insurance policies.
Bob Nunz is still smarting because I made him work that half-day last 12/25 :-)
Unagidon--I think you are missing something fundamental that Sean is pointing out. It makes all the difference when the purchaser (employer) is not the end user (employee). The discipline of the market is not present when the employee's pocketbook is not (directly) impacted by the amount healthcare he uses. He has little incentive to be efficient when he does not directly bear the full cost his healthcare decisions. The employer can be as efficient as it wants, but this will have limited overall effect, since it has little control over the healthcare decisions of its employees.Although there is no law against an individual purchasing healthcare insurance, it would not make sense for him to do so if his employer is already paying for his coverage. In addition, the employer has a tax incentive for purchasing healthcare insurance, the individual doesn't. The market is simply reacting to the incentives provided by the tax code. Grant the same tax incentive to the individual, and the market will snap call.
Mark, it is truly a pity that this thread is almost dead, because what you (and Sean) said is very important and poorly understood and needs to be examined at length.My responses to Sean were against the idea that I think he seems to hold that there is a free market on one side and government regulation on the other side and that cases where the market is not performing adequately are the cause of regulation. There are theories out the on the right and on the left that business does not like regulation. This is simply not true in fact. Business doesn't like regulations that it doesn't like. They might be "anti-regulation" as a default position when trying to mobilize people that don't know any better, but in fact business people know that while regulations have costs, no regulations has costs too. It's just that in the market, sometimes the benefits of regulation are not enjoyed by the people who have to pay for them. You are half correct when you say incentives incent. What really happens is that good incentives, and only good incentives, incent. And the fact is, revising the tax code would not create good incentives for consumers to buy insurance, nor would some magical group of capitalists spring up suddenly to sell it.Contrary to what Sean thinks, businesses first provided insurance benefits on their own as a way of increasing "compensation" in the context of wage controls during World War 2. I suppose one could argue that without wage controls businesses simply would have increased salaries. But aside from the fact that one cannot run a wartime economy without regulations, capping salaries helped control inflation, which is something that the economy needs to avoid during a war. In short, business wanted the regulatory caps and then in their capitalist style they looked for ways to get around them when it suited their individual competitive needs. The reason that this became so widespread was because in a wartime economy it is very easy for things to spread very widely very quickly.Since health benefits were part of the overall package, if business (in general) had decided to cut them and operate like they did on a pre-war basis, they would have had to make up the cut in salary, don't you think? The economy took off from the war and after the war. They was no labor glut. However, it happened that health benefits were a rather cheap thing to offer. So it became standard and business loved it. The reason that business doesn't love it any more and the reason that they are unable to simply stop giving these benefits and have the worker/consumer take care of them himself is that the underlying costs of medical care are increasing far faster than wages are in general and far faster than business can control. When you talk about incentives and individuals, you are giving very poor marks to how American business acts with what are, in fact, the same incentives. American health insurance from the business person's point of view is all about individual incentives. Those rising co-pays and out of pockets that you have been seeing this last decade or two are precisely from business constructing those utilization incentives that you claims don't exist now because employees get their insurance handed to them by someone else. You must be very wealthy indeed if changes in your insurance plans have not directly impacted your pocketbook relative to the amount of health care you use.The consumer doesn't understand what is going on; I will grant you that. They think that the insurance companies are raising rates on one hand and ripping off doctors on the other (and this when they are not simply denying benefits altogether). But insurance companies (and this is true about any kind of insurance whatsoever) simply is a vehicle for distributing risk and passing on the underlying costs. It's just that the underlying costs are out of control.If there was a way to "incent" the individual any more than we do now to be prudent with their benefits, between us insurance companies and American business we would have figured it out already and we would be ramming down the worker's throat.Business would love to get out of the insurance benefits game and they would love to pass 100 percent of the thing off to the consumer. But consumers would not be able by themselves to pay for insurance. Why? Because at least with businesses there is some semblance of risk pools. A company with sick workers pays higher premiums than a company with healthy workers. There is at least some redistribution of risk within the company. But if you take that away, than only well people will be able to afford insurance, even if you reduce the tax burden to zero. As underlying medical costs keep going up, you are not talking about some free market consumer adapting by being prudent. You are talking about people choosing between medical care and, say, food. If we were to say that business would then have to increase salaries to cover the general COLA of medical care, then business is simply back providing insurance benefits indirectly, without the business expertise (and discipline) that they can use to influence utilization.This is how it really works.
Unagidon--Well, since you already know how it really works, there may not be much that I can add to the discussion ;-) Nevertheless, I will follow up on one thing you said that I agree with, and lament. Big business often does not mind regulation, and in far too many cases actually courts it, to prevent others from entering their market. On the other hand, I've yet to meet a small businessman who has anything but disdain for government red tape.
I'm sure you could add to the discussion. I'm talking as an executive in the business and am always willing to listen to other people's insights.Small business people don't like red tape in theory. But a lot of it benefits them too.
"But consumers would not be able by themselves to pay for insurance. Why? Because at least with businesses there is some semblance of risk pools. A company with sick workers pays higher premiums than a company with healthy workers. There is at least some redistribution of risk within the company. But if you take that away, than only well people will be able to afford insurance, even if you reduce the tax burden to zero. "I've wondered for some time if there wasn't a way to simply take the currently-uninsured and configure them (somehow) into risk pools. Would that be possible? Practical?
As a follow-up to my previous question: aren't there examples of non-employer risk pooling out there? E.g. the Knights of Columbus, the Lutheran Brotherhood?
There are lots of risk pools as you have described. But the question I would ask as a private sector insurer is "whose risk pool"? We could concoct a risk pool of the 30 million uninsured that would probably have a lower cost per person than most people would be able to get on their own, but this doesn't address the problem that many many people simply could not afford to pay for it anyway. Health care costs have risen and are rising so far so fast that risk pool configurations, tax "incentives", "consumer driven" schemes etc. by themselves simply cannot solve the problem through "free market" mechanisms by themselves, whatever the worshippers say or believe.


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To say the least, the Fed's own projections of GDP growth
continue anemic at best. For 2015 the
Fed now projects 1.9% growth in GDP followed by 2.55% in 2016 and 2.3% in
2017. We have stated many times that the
recovery since the bursting of the "Housing Bubble" is the most tepid recovery
since the great depression and as you can see, the Fed is forecasting more of
the same. We have also stated that the
primary reason for this is that debt, i.e., government, corporate, household
and student loans, are eating us alive.
At the same time, the Fed is predicting relatively "full employment"
with an unemployment rate of 5% starting in 2016. It turns out that the only way to get to a 5%
unemployment rate is to eliminate those people that were not able to find work
and have given up from the equation. Our
analogy here is to say the Fed is like the golfer that gives himself every putt
over 20 feet and then tells everyone he's "scratch". It is not reality!
From time to time, however, there are bright spots that
seemingly appear. One such spot is
automobile and truck sales that were very strong in June. It turns out that those sales were achieved
through a record percentage of leases and/or record length car loans. Said another way, debt is the reason that
auto sales were good. We therefore do
not believe this is a "turn for the better".
If we are wrong, the Fed will have to raise interest
rates sooner and faster than the market expects. If we are right, the economy will
continue to grow at somewhere between anemic or even negative rates. Either way, stocks by almost any valuation
measure are expensive and when that is the case the forward rate of return
suffers; it always has throughout history and we expect it will now. This is why we remain so bearish on U.S. [More]
The Federal Reserve has Painted Itself into a Corner
The Federal Reserve seems to have solved the problem of extricating the U.S. [More]
We live in an age of anxiety, and rightly so: Worries about the global economy are most emphatically not just in our imagination. The question is, who's going to bear the blame, come November?
The Age of Anxiety? With all due apologies to the late W.H. [More]
It's time Stephen Sondheim wrote another carnival song, and, more specifically, a sequel to the hauntingly memorable "Send in the Clowns" from his 1973 musical, A Little Night Music, which has proved so eerily prophetic in describing this year's political scene. As a glance at the crowded roster of Republican wannabe candidates for the presidency in next year's election makes clear, the powers that be in the GOP obviously have taken quite literally Sondheim's injunction that served as the title of the song, while the Democrats already have their very own barker and no shortage of mountebanks ensconced in their big tent. [More]
Charlie Minter appears on CNBC Low speed stream High speed stream
The list of negative factors affecting the stock market has now become so numerous that it is highly likely that a severe bear market has already started. We begin with the fact that, as measured by earnings and dividends, this is by far the most overvalued market of the past century. [More]
The entire
investment community was waiting on the edge of their seats for Chairwoman
Janet Yellen to make an announcement on March 18th at 2:00 PM in a
news conference. They were all waiting
to see if the word "patience" was removed from the Federal Reserve's
statement. And not to disappoint the
investors Yellen did announce that the word "patience" was removed from the
statement (meaning that the Fed would not be eager to raise rates, but would be
patient). However, that announcement was
followed by long explanations about the fact that if the Fed did move to raise
rates the rate increases would be very slow.
Since the
worldwide investment community was anticipating the removal of the word, the
stock market was down over 100 points on the DJIA at 2 PM as the announcement
was made. Virtually every investor
(large and small) were "chomping at the bit" to sell equities if they detected the
removal of "patience", since that meant to them the "removal of the punchbowl"
the Fed was supplying to the investment community over the past 6 years. Those were the years the Fed pumped trillions
of dollars into the U.S. [More]
Minter & Weiner Chat click here to see the commentary
Bloomberg Interview -Deleveraging 52 Trillion of DebtClick here to watch video (wmv format)If you have any difficultly with the above link, here is a direct link to Bloomberg (click Video)
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