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Francis does it again
David Cloutier September 19, 2013 - 11:11am
In his first extended interview, the Pope says things like this:
The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent. The church's pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently.
We have to find a new balance, otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel.
He is referring here to the tendency to be all abortion-and-gay-marriage, all the time. I think he is saying what Joseph Bottum is saying in his Commonweal piece on same-sex marriage. The problem is reenchantment, is transmission of the larger vision of what the Gospel is. I have some comments on Bottum's piece and on two ways in which Catholic conservatives seem to misunderstand the importance of reenchantment – they are up over at catholicmoraltheology.com.
The issue here is not liberal vs. conservative, Benedict vs. Francis. The issue is a holistic, renewed sense of what it means to live the Gospel vs. piecemeal battles over isolated hot-button issues. Bring on the reenchantment program!
Commenting Guidelines
A pope who knows the gospel. True renewal is coming to the church. The Magnificat is in. Mammon is out.
This is such big news that it seems everyone is logging in to the America Magazine website. The article cannot be accessed at the moment. John XXIII revisited and then some.
I think asserting that "Pope Francis is saying what Joseph Bottum is saying" does a disservice to the Pope. Pope Francis is lucid and persuasive. Joseph Bottum was so rambling and confused that half his readers or more didn't know what he was talking about!
Fair enough on style - give the pope the big edge! The point is that both suggest the hot-button-issue battles make no sense apart from much larger questions of overall vision and mission - and this vision is about the Gospel, not about natural law code enforcement by civil authority.
I've just skimmed the piece in America, and there's lots lots to chew on there. But already at the back of my mind I can hear some, ordained and otherwise, saying to themselves (to paraphrase the well known words of Magritte), "Ceci n'est pas un pape."
But for the rest of us, he is indeed.
Another first: reference by a Pope to Puccini's opera: "Turandot."
Recall that the most famous aria of the opera is "Nessun dorma!"
There's no sleeping on Francis' watch.
It's encourgaging to hear that Pope Francis prays the breviary and the rosary daily and that he spends an hour each night before the Blessed Sacrament. His clearly finds his strength in the Lord.
Frank G-- Isn't this great? Maybe the dichotomy between pious practices and generous, active Christianity can end. How about BOTH adoration AND the poor?
I was underwhelmed by his response to what he saw as women's role in the Church:
"I am wary of a solution that can be reduced to a kind of 'female machismo,' because a woman has a different make-up than a man. But what I hear about the role of women is often inspired by an ideology of machismo.
Machismo? Seriously?
I agree with you about Pope Francis's word choice here.
I think that he mistakes assertiveness for machismo.
I understand machismo to refer to brashness.
But I understand assertiveness as the corrective to brashness.
On women
He answers: "I am wary of a solution that can be reduced to a kind of 'female machismo,' because a woman has a different make-up than a man. But what I hear about the role of women is often inspired by an ideology of machismo. Women are asking deep questions that must be addressed. The church cannot be herself without the woman and her role. The woman is essential for the church. Mary, a woman, is more important than the bishops. I say this because we must not confuse the function with the dignity. We must therefore investigate further the role of women in the church. We have to work harder to develop a profound theology of the woman. Only by making this step will it be possible to better reflect on their function within the church. The feminine genius is needed wherever we make important decisions."
Who is that "we"? As a woman, I do not particularly want to start the process of renewing the role of women in the church by having men "develop a profound theology of the woman". Women do not need men to tell them what their proper place is, even if they think about it profoundly.
I note that similar things could be said about lay people. Adapting the quote:
"I am wary of a solution that can be reduced to a kind of 'lay clericalism,' because a lay person has a different make-up than the clergy. But what I hear about the role of lay persons is often inspired by an ideology of clericalism. Lay people are asking deep questions that must be addressed. The church cannot be herself without the lay people and their role. The lay people are essential for the church. Mary, a lay person, is more important than the bishops. I say this because we must not confuse the function with the dignity. We must therefore investigate further the role of lay people in the church. We have to work harder to develop a profound theology of the laity. Only by making this step will it be possible to better reflect on their function within the church. The lay genius is needed wherever we make important decisions."
Personally, I am a proud member of the laity. We are the ones at the margins, the ones who are free to imagine and try out new ways to be Christian. We are more diverse (starting with gender but not just that), richer in humanity. Like the worker-priests of old, we are present wherever there are people. There are many possibilities for us to act in the world. All we need is to figure out what to do, and then do it.
My favorite quote from Francesco's interview which puts his humility and intellect on full display:
Many of the bad decisions he [Francesco] made while leading Catholics in Argentina came about because of his "authoritarianism and quick manner of making decisions," the pope said.
My favorite quote:
We must always consider the person. Here we enter into the mystery of the human being. In life, God accompanies persons, and we must accompany them.
Thanks to Claire and Irene. I am among those watching Francis from the sidelines, with hope and admiration. This interview offers a great deal of hope to those who have been disillusioned by, and effectively disenfranchised, in the Catholic church. Because he seems to be willing to at least listen, I even have hope that someday he will realize that his own understanding of women is limited by machismo - framed by the very male machismo culture in which he was raised and has lived his entire life, both inside and outside the church. Male machismo and patriarchy long dominated Latin American culture, and still dominate the Catholic church. I have found some of the comments of even the "enlightened" priests who write blog articles and make comments on this site to be revealing in terms of how deeply this mindset permeates the thinking of many priests of the Catholic church, even in those who were not also raised in a heavily male machismo environment like Argentina. The culture in Latin America has changed dramatically in recent decades and several countries have elected several women to lead them. But the Catholic church continues to want to define women primarily - if not exclusively - by biology and specifically by women's role in reproduction and motherhood.
If the pope truly believes that women, represented by Mary, are "more important than bishops" and that the feminine is needed in the church (which it most definitely is), then at some point he will have to face up to the reality that by denying the priesthood to women he shuts the door on women playing a genuine role in inculcating the church with feminine understanding, insights and values. Perhaps there could be a work around - many have noted that there is no legal requirement for cardinals to be priests. He could also open the door to the ideas of women theologians instead of silencing them as his two predecessors have done.
Francis does not yet seem to see - but I pray that he will - that statements that imply that men should define a "theology of women" and their roles is symptomatic of the very blindness that cripples the church.
Do not worry about those deatils Claire, Pope Francis seems very much the sort of man, who will give all these important matters all due thorough and thoughtful consideration.
As a layman, I am glad Pope Francis is setting a clear course. I am a KC and my style is to simply pay proper attention to him, figure out what he is signaling, and to get in line and on board, to get with the program so to speak.
I got "on board" when Benedict was Pope (e.g., Latin mass and learning the new tranlsation of Novus Ordo) and will happily do the same with Pope Francis.
I gladly follow the Pope because I am convinced the Holy Spirit guided his election and helps him in his mission/vocation.
For what it's worth [a big "consider the source"], John Allen is reporting from the Jesuit interview with the Pope:
More generally, the pope says Catholic leaders must find a "new balance" between their primary spiritual mission and their involvement in contentious political questions, warning that if they don't, the church's foundation will "fall like a house of cards."
As he did on the papal plane, Francis clearly rejects the ordination of women to the priesthood.
He indicates, however, that he wants the church to do a better job of hearing women's voices.
"Women are asking deep questions that must be addressed," the pope says. "The church cannot be herself without the woman and her role."
While Francesco does not go as far as I would like in these comments, I can't help but notice the stark differences in emphasis and spirit from his brothers of fond memory, Wojtyla and Ratzinger.
Anne Chapman above is raising legitimate and necessary concerns. Women will be the best judges of these overtures from Francesco at reconciliation with women. However, this may be the proverbial "crack in the door" so many of us have been hoping and praying for. At least, we can hope?
Claire and Anne: I wonder if Pope Francis is aware that there's already a large body of work on a theology of women by women theologians. I am hopeful about his papacy, but leery that his understanding of women is formed primarily by his culture, both Latin American and the clerical culture of the Church. Women theologians may not even be on his radar.
What a marvelous, marvelous document this interview is. I hope that Pope Francis continues to preach in this way rather than using "set pieces" like encyclicals. The church as field hospital - what a stunning image that is.
It seems to me that he is indicating priorities and directions and possibilities for further development in this interview. I expect that the work of fleshing these things out and making them concrete will fall, not to him, but to us. A collaborative work of church renewal. Deo gratias.
The interview can be also read at toher Jesuits sites, like Thinking Faith ... http://www.thinkingfaith.org/articles/20130919_1.htm
I liked so much of what he said. Being a practicer of Ignatian spirituality, I liked all the mentions of dicernment, of Arrupe and Faber, etc. And I liked this that he said about Ignatius .... <I>Ignatius is a mystic, not an ascetic,"
But I was really disappointed in what he said about women! I wrote this at my own blog ...
He speaks about women as if they were of a different species than men .... we're all people ... when women want to be treated as men are treated in the church, that doesn't mean they are behaving with machismo, it means they want to be seen as people too. In another part of the interview Francis says ...
"When it comes to social issues, it is one thing to have a meeting to study the problem of drugs in a slum neighbourhood and quite another thing to go there, live there and understand the problem from the inside and study it. There is a brilliant letter by Father Arrupe to the Centres for Social Research and Action on poverty, in which he says clearly that one cannot speak of poverty if one does not experience poverty, with a direct connection to the places in which there is poverty. The word insertion is dangerous because some religious have taken it as a fad, and disasters have occurred because of a lack of discernment. But it is truly important."
If only he would apply that wisdom to women and how they are treated by the church. We don't need to be studied, we don't want some special role, and we cannot be defined by those who stand outside of our experience. If Francis could only get one thing - we are you, we are all, men and women, just people of God.
My favorite line is, "That was crazy." But all the way through I kept thinking of the dioceses in which the prayers after Mass -- what was it? three Hail Marys and the prayer to St. Michael? -- will return. But instead of the conversion of Russia, the intention will be the conversion of Pope Francis.
David Cloutier,
How could it be otherwise? Did not our Lord Himself buttress His ministry to the poor by immersing Himself in prayer? But we must send an update to Father McBrien who wrote in NCR on 9/8/09 -
Now that most Catholics are literate and even well-educated, the Mass is in the language of the people (i.e, the vernacular), and its rituals are relatively easy to understand and follow, there is little or no need for extraneous eucharistic devotions...
Eucharistic adoration, perpetual or not, is a doctrinal, theological, and spiritual step backward, not forward.
Francis, like Jesus Himself, understands the criticality of ministry built on a foundation of prayer. And clearly he recognizes Eucharistic adoration as a marvelous way to pray.
I love the clear, straightforward answers. Indeed, it gets muddled when he speaks of women. I have no idea what he means by "female machismo" -- in its best light I hope he means he does not want simply to admit women to the broken, hyper-clerical world of male-dominated clergy. I am probably grasping at straws. While there is so much in this interview which gives me great hope, alas, Francis does not seem likely to break the stained-glass ceiling.
I do find some hope in this line, especially in the context of other statements against clericalism and giving women real voice in church governance:
The feminine genius is needed wherever we make important decisions.
The important decisions of the Church are made by Cardinals and Popes. Pre-1917, canon law allowed for lay Cardinals. There is nothing stopping Francis from changing canon law back to its pre-1917 rules, and adding the really revolutionary change of admitting women to the College. None of the weak arguments against women priests would have any relevance. Being a Cardinal, an advisor and elector, has nothing to do with acting in persona Christi. And really, the only reason lay women never had this role pre-1917 is the history of sexism, which the Church, this Pope in particular, rightly recognizes as sinful.
Making women Cardinals has support in some surprising circles:
I had a line in my posting which I apparently lost while editing and pasting the quote. It said something like:
As Anne Chapman alluded, the legal current requirement that Cardinals be priests is fairly recent and easily rescindable.
Apologies for not crediting her original mention of the concept in this thread.
I do not see women priests ever becoming reality, and I cannot imagine so-called "lay Cardinals" - men or women - at all.
We will just have to see where Pope Francis leads, and try not to be pushy.
"How about BOTH adoration AND the poor?" AND the middle class AND the rich. Remember, we're called to love even our enemies.
"Women do not need men to tell them what their proper place is…" she said, putting the man in his proper place.
Assertiveness is not a corrective to brashness, in the Catholic way of thinking. There is no assertiveness in the fiat.
Reading these comments I wonder if we have, a la cafeteria Catholics, cafeteria Francises.
Pope Francis may have been a chemist, but he does not talk like a scientist. No precise, concise, chiseled statements. Instead, he's a painter. At some level we get it, but when we try to zoom onto some detail of what he says and focus on that exclusively, it becomes fuzzy, as if we were looking at a pointillist painting by taking out our magnifying glass, looking at one dot and trying to figure out what it represents. That approach is not helpful. We have to change the way we parse papal texts. Benedict as Millet and Francis as Seurat!
Pope Francis is so open about himself and attentive to others! Maybe he would have made a good husband.
Pope Francis shows himself to be a Jesuit extraordinaire in this interview. He thinks like a Jesuit, he answers questions like a Jesuits, He prefers to think rather than offer answers on the spot. Imagine that, "thinking" coming back to Catholicism after the last two Popes banished it. He "discerns" like a Jesuit. He has a Jesuit imagination that tends towards narrative, composition of place and entering into the scene. His thoughts on thinking with the Church are fimly grounded in the proper understanding of what that means; very Ignatian. He has Jesuit concerns for the well being of humanity, and he has strong preferential option of the poor, as well as for finding God in all things. His whole perspective is informed by cura personalis and the Jesuit "way of proceeding." He has the power to move the right towards the center as they discover the freedom that lies at the heart of Jesuit and Catholic spirituality. Ignatius must be immensely proud of this Pope.
I second what Alan Mitchell says. I'm neither a Jesuit nor Jesuit-trained, but what the pope says in this interview is certainly inspiring.
He should just keep on giving interviews, they are far more effective than encyclicals. He is really shaking things up and making a "mess" -- creating the environment in which major changes can be effected.
And here from his address to gynecologists this morning:
the Holy Father underlined that "the first right of the human person is his life". He spoke of a "culture of waste", which he said, now enslaves the hearts and minds of many. The cost of this, he continued, is the elimination of human beings, especially if they are physically or socially weaker. The Pope stressed that every child that is not born, but unjustly condemned to be aborted and every elderly person who is sick or at the end of his life bears the face of Christ.
Would female cardinals have to wear brown?
Per Alan: " Imagine that, "thinking" coming back to Catholicism after the last two Popes banished it. . . "
Whew - what sour notes.
And Claire - "Pope Francis may have been a chemist, but he does not talk like a scientist. No precise, concise, chiseled statements . . ."
What are you talking about? I have never seen "precise, concise, chiseled statements" in Commonweal - ever.
I am glad Fr. Imbelli highlighted the talk to gyneocologists, and must express sadness that the previous popes are being characterized as "not thinking." A terrible disservice to two brilliant men, and simply the mirror image of the lack of charity shown by the other side. Agree or disagree, the previous popes (especially Benedict) were impressive thinkers. One (JP2) even issued a encyclical on faith and reason! I do hope we can get past this kind of papal stereotyping..
"The door is closed'' ..... And doors have hinges that are used to open doors.
Note: "female machismo" is an oxymoron; male machismo is redundant.
Just got an email from my brother Bill , an orthopedic surgeon in a field hospital in Afghanistan , asking what I thought about the Pope's interview. Interesting, the Pope used the image of field hospital for the church! This guy is connecting with everyone and I hope the reprimanders just stop.
Re: talking and thinking like a scientist.
As I read the Pope's biography he studied chemistry but not to an advanced degree and he taught the subject as well as other topics.
Speaking as one who majored in chemistry (at a liberal arts college) and went on for an M.S. in Chemisty, I would not have a clue about how I and my fellow students think.
I went on later for M.A. degrees in Theology and Pastoral Couseling. (Not meant to be a shameless plug, just an illustration of my point.)
It is interesting to me that a friend who studied chemisty with me many years ago and attained a doctorate recently found and notified me via Linkedin. He is now a chaplain and spiritual adviser. He is not the only person I know who studied a science and made a leap into the spiritual realm.
Yes we must, but hopefully not to the abortuary.I was relieved that he did not use the phrase "obsession with abortion" as the media has paraphrased,but I do hope in the future he will re-iterate the Church's teaching on abortion as intrinsically evil.I fear his statement about disjointed moral teachings not being morally equivalent will give fodder to the pro abortion Christians.Moral teachings and doctrine are NOT morally equivalent and abortion stands apart from moral teaching and doctrine on homosexuality, women's role,even contraception.How could there be a new balance regarding abortion? I took comfort in the fact that though abortion has been accepted in much of the world ,even by Christians ,the Church was always up front and center defending the unborn. If this ceases to be the case-I will be deeply troubled by that.
At last! A pope who is not afraid to be and show that he is, human. Admittedly I favor his Jesuit approach to problems and problem-solving. My brother was a Jesuit and never, ever came across as anything but a human who was unafraid to challenge me and others into deeper thought on any variety of subjects-- even those labeled not up for compromise.
I agree with the previous commenter who advises us not to be too pushy. Of course, Pope Francis is not perfect and is not the answer to all the church's myriad problems. The beauty of it is that he doesn't claim to be the answer. He wants to lead us, not browbeat us into intellectual submission at the cost of our own intellectual integrity. His approach even suggests, to me at least, that he knows he might also learn from the input of the church at large.
What a breath of fresh air!
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Saying he was "sorry it had to come to this," Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia said today that he was forming an "independent search committee" to select a new Pope.
The visibly upset jurist appeared at a press conference with the sole other member of the newly formed search committee, Justice Clarence Thomas.
Justice Scalia said he had "no other alternative" but to pick a new Pope himself after reading what he called a "disturbing" interview with Pope Francis today: "The Pope said he doesn't want to speak out against abortion and gay marriage. Well, sorry, my friend, but that's the entire job description. You should have thought of that before you let them blow that white smoke in Rome."
Justice Scalia acknowledged that only the College of Cardinals has the legal authority to choose a Pope, but added, "Quite frankly, those jokers got us into this mess. Right, Clarence?"
Justice Thomas had no comment.
Gene--That's funny.
To my liberal brethern and cistern: Does it make you at all uncomfortable that I am as thankful for Pope Francis as you are? I think it should.
cistern? Hopefully a typo or else please explain.
The Catholic 'finger shakers' like Scalia will now be waving at the wind. And Mark P hasn't got a chance to make liberal me un-comfortable....... even after the years of his postings.
Movie lovers take heart. Fellini lives. Francis' favorite flim Is "La Strada."
It might surprise Catholics who call themselves "liberals" to know that Catholics like Mark P and me (i.e., those who "liberals" like to call conservatives or "trads"), that we are thrilled with Pope Francis and grateful to the Holy Spirit.
Ken: actually I am thinking of Benedict. When I wanted to understand what he was talking about I used to take his (short) texts apart and look at them sentence by sentence, almost word by word, and it made sense, and there was almost no redundancy, there was always a progression of ideas. With Pope Francis that doesn't work. Like everyone, I have a gut reaction to what he says, but if I want to reflect on it, I don't know how to go about it. I feel a little bit disoriented, not only by the content but also by the form.
Pope Francis also said he that he loves Roberto Rossellini's "Rome, Open City". Apparently, Francis' taste is not fettered by political correctness; some viewers are critical of Rossellini's depiction of the Nazis as homosexuals and lesbians in "Roma, citta apperta".
and he likes to tango... .
About the Author
David Cloutier is associate professor of theology at Mount St. Mary's University and editor of catholicmoraltheology.com. He is the author of Love, Reason, and God's Story: An Introduction to Catholic Sexual Ethics (2008) and is working on a book on the moral problem of luxury in contemporary economic ethics.


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Famous Patricks Who Should Be Saints: Happy St. Paddy's Day! (PHOTOS)
In honor of the beer-swilling, green-wearing, party-loving saint for which St. Patrick's Day is named, we've rounded up a few of our favorite famous Patricks.
In reality good ol' St. Pat wasn't quite as exciting as his holiday, which marks his death (grim, right?), not the first time he drank too much whiskey. Here's St. Patrick's history on a cracker: ;As a 16-year-old, Patrick was taken from his family in Wales and forced into slavery in Ireland. He escaped after six years, returned to Wales, and eventually entered the church. He then went back to Ireland as a bishop, and by the 7th century he was revered as the patron saint of the country.
The celebs in this gallery may not headline their own holiday, but they share a name with long-dead guy who does. And for that (and their other many accomplishments), they should become saints. How 'bout it, Vatican?

subset: commoncrawl


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Ticonderoga People will have an opportunity for a unique look at Fort Ticonderoga.
The fort will host "Exploration on Snow Shoes: A Timeline of Trees on the Pavilion Grounds" as part of its Fort Fever Series Sunday, Feb. 10, at 2 p.m.
Heidi Karkoski, the fort's director of horticulture, will lead the trek.
The cost is $10 a person and will be collected at the door. It is free for members of the Friends of Fort Ticonderoga.
"The landscape around Fort Ticonderoga evolved from a thickly-wooded peninsula before the fort was built, to a battlefield cleared to defend the Heights of Carillon and the waterways surrounding it, and included vegetable gardens to supply occupying troops with fresh provisions," Karkoski said.
"Throughout the centuries, some areas were allowed to be reclaimed by nature, and others were changed for either utilitarian or leisure purposes," she said. "Since the 18th century uses as varied as pasture, deer park, golf course, orchard, victory garden, country estate, working farmland, and formal garden have combined to form a rich history of landscape use. While many of these features have changed, some of the old trees on the grounds have endured and still cast a shadow over the evolving landscape."
Participants will be able to tour the Pavilion grounds on a winter's afternoon and learn about the ornamental tree species, the age of the trees and how they were incorporated into the landscape design over the past 150 years. Historic photographs will be used to illustrate the past while touring the notable trees of today.
Participants must provide their own snowshoes. In the case of inadequate snow cover, winter hiking boots should be worn. People are reminded to dress for weather conditions.
Participants should check in at the Deborah Clarke Mars Education Center by 1:45 p.m.. The gate opens at 1:15 p.m. for the program.
Additional programs in the Fort Fever Series are schedule for March 17 and April 21. Visit www.fort-ticonderoga.org for more information.
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We have been together for four years and are planning to form a Civil Partnership next year. For us marriage means a loving commitment. It is a union recognised both legally and by society. To us, equal marriage would mean that we wouldn't feel like second class citizens.
Marriage means that your relationship is taken more seriously, it is a legal contract, and always has been. There are also certain legal benefits in terms of insurance and tax. Religious folk seem to think it's all about "God" but surely, if that's the case, no wedding outside of a religious place is "moral'. Love is love and no amount of law or paperwork will change that nor will any hounding from religious folk. We have a Catholic, a Buddhist, a Baptist, Protestants and Wiccans coming to our Civil Partnership which just shows that not all religious people are fussed - and realise that love is love regardless.
We want a marriage, rather than a Civil Partnership because we feel it is seen as more socially valid and shows greater commitment. Civil Partnership feels to us like a pretend marriage, it is not seen as a marriage or it would be called that. Marriage would show that we are normal, not different, and that we are just as committed as a straight couple.
We are planning our civil wedding for next year. At this stage any change in law resulting from the consultation wouldn't change our plans. We would probably just go and register for marriage quietly behind closed doors once the law changed rather than doing the whole ceremony again. We don't think that civil partnerships should automatically be changed to marriage status, because some couples wouldn't want that, especially after some of things that some religious people have said. It's not a problem just to go to the registry office and do the paperwork, life is full of paperwork!
The fact that they are consulting on equal marriage does make us feel that Scotland is striving to be more open and equal, somewhere that no-one is excluded, particularly if you compare it to somewhere like Uganda. In principle, however, neither of us feels that the Scottish Government should be doing a consultation on it, the Marriage (Scotland) Act 1977 should just be amended; they should just be doing it. If equal marriage doesn't become a reality the LGBT community along with many others outside of it will think the Scottish Government has given in to religious pressure. If it does become a reality religious groups will say they've not been heard. Either way we need to become a country for the modern time; the LGBT community is a legal section of society and should be equally treated as such.
For media enquiries in the first instance please contact Stonewall Scotland on 0131 474 8019 or email firstname.lastname@example.com. If you have an out of office media enquiry please call 07870 650 662.


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At the end of October, we announced a special contest in celebration of the Spawn 150 milestone. In a random drawing, five VERY lucky winners were chosen. Each will receive a collection of all five #150 covers, each copy signed by that cover's artist.
That means autographed covers of not only the full-color and sketch versions by Todd McFarlane, but also by Greg Capullo, Jim Lee and Philip Tan. To see each of the covers, click here.
Here are The Chosen:Tom Cashman, Bradley Beach, NJPhil Hong, Rancho Palos Verdes, CADebbie Marlin, Henderson, KYAdam Geyer, St. Marys, PAJim Walden, Gadsden, ALCongratulations to the winners, and thank you to all who entered.


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Lady Texans smash Distance Medley record on day one of Masked Rider OpenJanuary 20, 2013
LUBBOCK – Day one of the 2013 Texas Tech Masked Rider Open began with a bang for the Lady Texan track team as the women's distance medley relay team smashed the school record by nearly a full minute in the first running event of the day.
Katya Miroshnikova (1200M), Curry Young (400M), Brittany Letts (800M), and Darroneshia Lott (1600M), etched their names in the SPC record books when they teamed up to cross the finish line first in 12-minutes, 5.79 seconds to better the previous record of 13:03.41 set in 2009. Lott ran a solid anchor leg to easily hold off Texas Tech by nearly three seconds.
SPC also received a dominant performance in the men's 600-yard run, where they swept the top five spots.
Sophomore Vernon Norwood led the way, edging out teammate Anthonio Mascoll with a time of 1:09.86. Mascoll was just behind in 1:09.93.
Daniel Harper (1:11.39), Steven Gayle (1:11.42), and Andrew Hunt (1:11.48) completed the top five sweep.
In the 'A' section of the men's long jump, Jarvis Gotch best leap of 24 feet, 2.25 inches was good for runner-up honors.
The two-day Masked Rider Open will resume Saturday at 10 a.m. with the field events, followed by the 55-meter hurdles at 11 a.m. Oval races will begin at 12:30 p.m. with the women's mile run.


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This morning as I was getting ready, I experienced a moment of deep sadness and nostalgia. I began day-dreaming of the golden years…the years of Ultima Online. I'd like to keep some of my most cherished memories alive through this forum. Bear with me… (all of these pre-Trammel era, on Atlantic server).
· As a thief, I remember running through the woods of Yew… looking for prospective victims. One day I came upon a Grandmaster Archer, who was killing birds for their feathers. I ran passed him and snooped his bag, then hid. There was a magic bow contained therein. I then stealthed to the unsuspecting victim, and stole his bow! He tried to fight back, but when he reached for his weapon, it was not to be found. It turned out it was an indestructible short bow of Vanq. One of my best catches ever.
· At a time when reds (murderers) were allowed in town, myself and 3 of my comrades were at the Moonglow bank. A red was trying to sell his magic mallet to another player. The 4 people in my party were all mages. We went off-screen, cast Energy Bolt (Corp Por FTW!), and sync-dumped that red into oblivion, right next to the bank. Needless to say, the prospective buyer received his magical mallet for free that day.
· There is a bridge halfway between Trinsic and Britain. My partner and I used to hide beside this bridge. I was a thief, and my friend a mage. As someone would enter the bridge, my partner would cast a magic wall on the opposite side of the bridge. I would then enter the other side, blocking the victim from escaping. I would then commence looting the victim where he stood, at least until the magic wall disappeared. This was so much fun! People used to adventure on foot from time-to-time back in the day, and not gate/recall to every destination.
· Of course, I save the best for last.
On the West Entrance to Trinsic, there was a young player looking for guidance. Generally, I would lead this type out of town, to possibly steal and/or kill him. But this one stuck with me…he was so sincere. A softy at heart, I began to assist the young man. After conspiring with my friend, my partner led the young man down the street, as I set up a "magic arrow of gold" on the ground. I created a make-believe arrow of gold coins at the entrance of West Trinsic.
We then told the young man that Lord British himself sent us to hire him, and to come meet the king himself immediately. The young player began dancing in circles, excited to meet the king! We wished him farewell on his travels. We told him at the site of a gate, and with a step of faith…he would appear at the king's castle. At the end of the golden arrow, my friend opened a gate to Lord British's castle, where the young player excitedly, but hesitantly, went through, thanking us all the way for his upcoming adventures.
This last story changed my outlook on Ultima Online forever. It wasn't all about the PvP, and the stealing… this experience struck a chord with me so deep. From this point forward, my friend and I dedicated our virtual lives to Role Playing. We built a house at the north-most top of the main continent, and lived out the rest of our days in UO fishing, cooking, and role-playing in our home. Chess, checkers…it didn't matter. No more magic… only the occasional treasure hunt and boat trip to Skara Brae for supplies.
Please share your UO experiences on this thread! May the best MMORPG of all time (pre-Trammel) continue to live on in our memories!
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Elite Member
Joined: 6/13/07
I watched friends play UO (and later EQ) and thought...'these games suck.' Kept me away from MMOs for years.
As the first of its kind, it failed in as many things as it succeeded. I am glad you all had loads of fun though.
Let the drinking of the nostalgia bheer continue!
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Elite Member
Joined: 4/12/11
RIP City of Heroes!
How about we don't share the past and say we did. Avoid living in the past and try to enjoy the present.
Elite Member
Joined: 1/13/10
Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms
Roleplaying an environmentalist murderer on Pacific. Tried it also on Catskills, but the RP Police was strong with that crowd so I abandoned that one quickly. The character was originally going to be part of a server-specific story arc, but that plot got dropped. Instead of just shelving the character, I trained her up and played out her part of the story. The Pacific crowd - from the Skara Brae roleplayers to the crossroads PKs - was wonderfully tolerant of different playstyles and it was an incredible experience actually getting to play out a true villain in the game.
I kept a diary of the characters adventures, making a point to keep to a schedule of Tuesday mornings and thursday evenings so that those who wanted to hunt her had a chnace to and those who wanted to avoid her knew when certain parts of the forest were unsafe. :) http://themess.com/manhunter/
Of all my experiences in UO, my time with the community on the Pacific server was the most memorable. I have never come across a more universally tolerant, accepting and fun-loving community on any other game server.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Thank you for the reply! Very cool website.
There are those who dedicated their entire virtual existence to creating lore in UO. I don't agree with not rehashing the past. No modern games pull off what UO did so well... and that is creating a great, immersive role-playing environment with limitless expandability. We need to learn from these games! I do not like the direction modern MMOs have been taking AT ALL. I will continue to rehash the past until another game comes along that is half of what UO was.
I don't understand why you moved my post to "Britannia Tavern". First of all, I followed the rules, and we are talking about MMORPGs. Secondly, you moved it to a location where the traffic is much to be desired.
Apprentice Member
Joined: 7/25/09
I have so many fond and not so great moments relating to that game If I could type and complie it gramaticly I could write a tome.
my first forays into the game I had no clue what to do just wandering around and I see a Laama walking around in the streets I had fought some rabbits and rats before and they had killed me more than once or twice but the more I fought them the stronger I seemed to get so I think to my self this lamma should not be in the streets so I killed it and was picking through its remains when some text shows up on my screen "what are you doing?" and I notice another player next too me I wonder what to do so I just type "killing a Laama of coarse" and it shows up over my head I was like neat I'm talking to another person i think...
Any way too make a long story short she Informed me that killing "blue" named creatures made me grey or something and other players could kill me with no regrets even in town she then showed me the Bank wow! And vendors who would buy my skins from rabbits and I was hooked for years
Apprentice Member
Joined: 10/29/08
Ahh good ole Ultima Online. This game is what got me started in online gaming and its where I have my best gaming memories. I've met many of my online friends through this game because it is focused heavily on community and you just get the chance to meet some of the coolest people. I have a couple stories that I would like to share and I will keep them in short version.
First I would like to share my first day of logging in to the game and what ensued:
So back before publish 16 when they made major changes to the game is when I started. When bank checks were white, houses had keys to open the door, and the average players house was a small cottage or small marble. I had been wandering around the bank in Minoc for a while asking people what I should do to get started. Some gave me gold to buy armor and weapons, some gave me advice, and some showed me around. I learned that a great way to get started was killing animals and skinning them for the meat and hides. So I began working my way out around Minoc killing little critters and selling the hides for gold. I was out by the mines outside of the town when a player approached me. At this point, I had no clue what it meant to have a red name, or gray or blue. I didn't realize there were criminals yet and this guy was a criminal. His name was Piatchi and he seemed like a really nice guy. So we got to talking and he told me a little about the game, what to expect when being out of town and what not. He told me he had a big house and asked if I wanted to check it out, so being the noob that I was, I followed him to it. We get to the house and step inside and all of a sudden the door closes and he disappears. I didn't know what to do so I tried to open the door but it was locked. He somehow managed to lock the door behind us and locked me inside. Then a few seconds later he pops up again, muttering some words I hadn't seen before and POOF! A blade spirit pops out in the room I'm standing and proceeds to kill me. My screen turns gray and I stand there confused wondering what happened. Soon after, Piatchi pops out and starts rummaging through my corpse and says to me "See now you learned something, don't follow criminals into their house." and disappears again.
One of my favorite gaming of memories of all time also happened in UO and it involves one of my favorite friends I ever met in cyberspace:
When UO was hugely popular around the release of Mondains Legacy I had joined a new guild, which happened to be one of the largest on the server. Here I met a ton of cool people and made some amazing friends that I still talk to today. One of these people is named Valynn. We hit it off big time and had a group of about 10 people who all played together each night for a couple years. Valynn was an older lady but was VERY skilled in the game. She could do anything from growing plants to taking out the toughest monsters with ease. Well each year the guild played a game called the Assassins game where people would sign up and get assigned to another person who had also signed up. The person you were assigned to had no clue you were their assassin and the entire goal of the game was to assassinate them and knock them out of the game until eventually it came down to two people who were trying to assassinate each other. We all had a code name and the results from each day would get posted using those code names. It turned out that my friend was my assassin and I had absolutely no clue. Her famous words were "Get em dead" and there was true meaning behind it because thats exactly what she did haha. One year they released misletoe as a christmas gift and when your character walked under, it would make a kissing noise. So Valynn being the funny person she is, lined her entire tower with misletoe so no matter where you walked you would hear kissing noises. She was super proud of the accomplishment so she invited me over to her tower one day. I was not thinking clearly when I went but I seriously had no clue what lied ahead. So she got me to go to her tower and walk all through it and kept typing "Blushes" haha and got me to the top of the tower. Maybe 5 seconds after I got up there I read the famous words "Get em dead". Her Rune Beetle popped up out of nowhere and killed me where I stood. Then I read "You have just been assassinated." which ended the game for me. She really got me good that day hahaha. Sadly she died of cancer a few years later but I will always remember her and her wonderful personality.
Thanks for letting me share my stories and hopefully it will inspire someone to join in the fun on UO.
Novice Member
Joined: 2/12/12
What's wrong with the past Wayne, did someone hurt you in yours?
Novice Member
Joined: 5/01/06
A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands.
I was kind of the Darth Vader / Spy master of the guild I was in. So many player created situations that I have not seen in an mmorpg since. EvE comes close though.
Novice Member
Joined: 5/07/11
Originally posted by waynejr2
Or live in Siege Perilous. Problem solved. No Trammel to hide in.
Advanced Member
Joined: 4/04/10
"PK Run!!"
Vas Flam
Vas Flam
Vas Flam
You are dead.
"Dang, lost all my stuff again."
Novice Member
Joined: 5/07/11
Heheh, seemed they copied your idea OP:
An event to submit your best memory of UO for a nice robe.
Novice Member
Joined: 3/05/06
Functionless Art is Simply Tolerated Vandalism...We Are The Vandals.
Went to Electronic Boutique back in the day. Got the game the day it came out. Spent the next few nights wandering around, fighting training dummies, and standing in line to buy reagents for spells.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Novice Member
Joined: 9/23/10
My fondest memories in UO were hanging out on the logs right outside Trammel and hunting down Pen Fifteen on the Pacific Server.
Making friends with Dawg and Pyrostasis only to jack their house keys and loot everything they had.
Making player cities with houses and tents.
Halloween when they would let you play on the Abyss server as a Dragon
Pretty much everything before they came out with Trammel which totally killed the game for me.
Now: Skyrim
Advanced Member
Joined: 4/16/12
Sanity....It's for the weak.
Originally posted by Draron
No trammel to hide in but still the new craptastic gear and stupid colors. I miss a good set of bone armor and mage running around in robes/nothing at all.
Some of my fondest memories of UO where the huge Choas/Order wars between Dragons Family and Hounds of Hell in Occlo on the Pacific shard. God those where fun times.
Apprentice Member
Joined: 11/20/12
I remember setting up windows macros to get the click click on the dummies to raise a skill.
I remember running from my first PKer.
I remember being in a dungeon with a bunch of people unsure who is going to turn red and slaughter us as we grouped against MOBS.
I remember my first house.
Great times.
Novice Member
Joined: 8/17/12
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious.
It took me years to come to grips with the fact that my memories of UO were far better than the actual game.
Gotta love those rose-colored gamer goggles.
Optional PvP = No PvP
Elite Member
Joined: 5/14/07
I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.
I only have one memmory...
The game i had allways wanted to play, but never did... In those days, i still tought subbed games where bull and crap and refused to pay to play... By the time i was over that, EQ was on the verge of release.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Originally posted by grimgryphon
I agree with this statement. I will say, however, that it is STILL to this date the most enjoyable MMO out there.
Check out 'Rel Por'. It's a UO shard with a smaller land mass to encourage player interaction. This game is still quality.


text:
Ralph B. Davis
Civitas News Service
PRESTONSBURG — Despite a history of rivalry, two local hospitals are joining forces to provide cardiology services in Floyd County.
Highlands Regional Medical Center and Pikeville Medical Center announced Monday their partnership on the new "Pikeville Cardiology Clinic at Prestonsburg," to be housed on the fourth floor of Highlands' medical office building.
During a joint press conference in the hospital's atrium, Highlands CEO Bud Warman and Pikeville CEO Walter May said that as the medical industry continues to evolve, it is important for community hospitals to embrace cooperation and collaboration, rather than competition.
Warman said the collaborative effort was more about fulfilling current services, rather than adding new services. While Eastern Kentucky has some difficulty attracting specialists, Warman said this agreement would solve that problem in the realm of cardiology, and could lead to similar arrangements in the future.
"No additional services to speak of right now, just strengthening some of the services we currently offer, but we've been without physician coverage," Warman said. "So this is adding Dr. Handshoe to the mix in our community. And then, hopefully if things go well, we will be building on that in the future, perhaps with some other physicians."
Warman said Pikeville will staff the medical office of the new clinic, while Highlands would continue to operate diagnostic services. He further explained that the agreement between the two hospitals does not include any cost- or revenue-sharing provisions, but that Pikeville's medical office would be a tenant of the office building.
Warman said collaboration has become more necessary, in the face of sweeping change in the field of health care.
"I think both organizations recognize the importance of collaboration given today's health care climate, a climate defined by sweeping social changes, changing payment systems, a shortage of providers, and great technological advances, particularly in the field of information management," Warman said. "Given these circumstances, we recognize all providers need to work together to solve the health care-related problems experienced in our local communities. Despite the challenges and changes in the health care arena, care is still delivered by people, for people, and this is best done in a collaborative environment."
May agreed and said the hospitals must work together, rather than in competition with each other.
"I believe this collaboration between facilities that Bud was talking about is the future of medicine," May said. "We can no longer afford to be islands and stand alone, without having areas that we do cooperate with each other, where it is beneficial to both facilities to do so. This is an important day. I know there's been times when we've been competitors, but I hope we have been good competitors. And as we join together here today, I hope we can be good partners …
"The whole things boils down to what's good for patients. If this works for the patients and they're better served, it's going to be good for Highlands, it's going to be good for Pikeville. If it doesn't, it won't be. But I believe with good people of goodwill working toward that end, that's almost guaranteed to happen, that it will be good for patients."
Warman said the agreement between the hospitals is typical of the evolution each has shown over the years, which has allowed the two to remain strong when others have failed.
"Many experts predict the demise of the independent, hometown hospital is just right around the corner," Warman said. "But as we know the people of Eastern Kentucky are pretty resilient and pretty independent-minded. We don't always comport with the trends. And it's because of this independent streak and the independent spirit of Eastern Kentucky, we are fortunate enough to have two of the last remaining strong, independent, community hospitals in the commonwealth — Pikeville Medical Center and Highlands Regional Medical Center."


text:
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text:
Pauline Runyon White, 64, of Borderland, passed away Thursday, December 6, 2012, at Williamson Memorial Hospital.
She was born March 16, 1948, at Borderland, to Haskel Runyon Sr. and Josephine Collins Runyon of Borderland.
She was a homemaker, a graduate of Williamson High School, worked at Deacons Cleaners and a member of the Little Rosa Old Regular Baptist Church.
Besides her parents, she is survived by her husband, James Harvey White; daughter, Kimberly Dawn White (Danny) Allen of Borderland; sisters, Wilma Lea Reed of Borderland, Margaret Ann (B. J.) Thompson of Harmony, S.C., and Mildred (Eddie) Varney of Salt Rock; brothers, Freddie Runyon of Borderland, and Haskel (Bonnie) Runyon Jr. of Borderland; grandchild, Destiny Paige Teeters; and a host of loving nieces, nephews, family and friends.
Funeral services will be conducted at 11 a.m. Monday, December 10, at R. E. Rogers Funeral Home with Elbert Sesco and Paul Bevins officiating. Burial will follow at Lackey Cemetery, Laurel Creek, with family and friends serving as pallbearers. Visitation will be after 6 p.m. Saturday and Sunday night at the funeral home with special services both nights at 7 p.m.
R. E. Rogers Funeral Home of Belfry, Ky., is in charge of arrangements. Online condolences at rerogersfuneralhome.com