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Ways to get involved in promoting the Victorious Gospel
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Do you believe the Hell we have grown up believing in is the hell of fire and brimstone?
I understand the aion or eon as a age but is all going to be redeemed?
will the devil and fallen angels be redeemed?
I have been using a lot of the UR scriptures in my messages lately and I've had no reaction to them in any negitive way. If everybody goes to heaven then the gospel is really good news. Good news for all.
I have battle for years with scripture that speaks of Jesus being savior of the world. The world? I have pastored so long and dealt with addicts alcoholics,people abused and hurt as children. They could never seem to get their lives together. Suicide by a guy who was one of the kindess people I have ever known. People raised in church who happened to be guy,just two nights ago,a man who is a double amputee and had battled with herion addiction for years died of a overdose. Yet this man really love the Lord and wanted to be better. If we are truthful,or if I am truthful,Jesus came for the sick and not those that felt they had it all together. If sickness is a qualifier for mercy and grace our world including me qualify. I would often wonder why is only the good church people seem to go to heaven at funerals? The people who seem to need most was always disqualified because they were still sinning. I read the other day that 2 out of every 4 men setting in church are struggling with porn. Yet you can't be honest in church when thats the very place you should be able to be honest. I'm a pastor and I know that if I go to heaven it's by His grace because I have not deserved it. If me being a human wants all people to be saved then how much more does the Father. The Father? That starts another series of thoughts. I'm a father,a earthly father,incomplete and sinful. Yet I would never! for any reason! destroy my daughter or hurt her in anyway. I may correct her or punish her but only with and through love. To bring better behavior. I can't stay angry because I love and enjoy her so much. Got a go I'll be back latter.
Third, I do not even go to church
Quote from: Lindy on October 03, 2011, 12:16:50 PMThird, I do not even go to churchThis forum is a church.A church isn't a building but a meeting of 2 or more people with the intention of praying or studying/discussing Biblical topics in a positive way.Matthew 18:20 For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with themI think meeting in an "electronic way" (forum, blog, all sorts of social media) is also included in that verse.
Well, I'm not a newbie, but I am a Pentecostal pastor . . .on my way out, but currently, still hold the license. And I can tell you that there are MANY parts of spiritual truth that God released on us that the church has twisted and perverted from truth of grace to attitudes of condemnation. It's what human nature is all about. But I personally believe it's also what the message Paul was speaking about when he shared about having a thorn in his side that was such a frustration to his own life yet everytime he approached God about it . . .the answer was always the same. Deliverance isn't always God's will believe it or not, but Grace is. What I tell people when it's pertaining to physical and emotional addictions is, lay it down. Don't embrace it, but don't try to over come it with your own efforts either. And don't beat yourself up when your flesh causes you to give in to it's constant pulling at you. The more we think we have to fight the flesh, the more strength we give it. The real truth is, you do have power over it, but it's not of your nature, it's of God's nature in you. So my advise is, stop PAYING attention to the weakness and give the attention to Christ . . .pursue him, and the process of the pursuit will set you free from the other.I'm not saying just accept the problem and live with it. I'm saying now that you've acknowledged it's existence, ignore it's strength, and throw yourself into the sound that brought you here. Because the reality is, it's not as strong as your mind has convinced you. But because of many other religious issues being deep rooted in you from your upbringing . .which by thte way, we're all in the same boat on that one . . .but because of other adopted doctrines, religion has bound you and blinded you from what true freedom is all about. Grace will truly set you free, but only when you stop trying to free yourself. You've already proven all these years that you can't free yourself from this, so embrace the grace . . .is it or is it not sufficient?Pursue Christ and the more you run toward him, the further away the noise of the flesh will be.


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Did any of you experience labile blood pressures before pre-e hit? What were your nunbers and how long did you fight it before it turned into preeclampsia? My bp's have been all over the place. I had appts this week for NST's and ob visits and the baby did great on NST's but the dr visit left me feeling like becuase my bp was lower in the office 130/80 and 124/75) he didnt believe my higher numbers at home (even though my monitor was tested a few weeks ago in their office and worked perfectly) .. which had been 140-150/80-90.
Im pretty sure mine were labile even after pre-e diagnosis with my other two. This time my blood pressures have been trending upwards since 28 weeks, but vary widely through out the day/week. Normal bp is 90-100/50-60 but now I can be 120s/70s sometimes and crazy high like last nights 140-150/80-90 and 160/95 - 144/124) numbers other times even in the same day with no change in activity. I ended up in triage last night b/c even sitting on the couch just watching tv after dinner, I started feeling really awful. Tingly hands and face and I was feeling really hot. I checked my bp and it was 144/124 (which is the highest number I have EVER seen, even when I had DS it was 150/105). I layed down and checked it again a while later and it was 142/90. I went and tucked the kids into bed with DH and layed back down and checked it a little later and got 165/91. When I got to L&D I was feeling somewhat better and it was 140s/80s. The remainder of the 5 hours we were there it was much lower.. varying from 120s/70s to 130s/80s. The baby appeared to be all over the monitor at times but then other times her baseline would be in the 160s and she would decel to 115-120s for about 10-15 seconds and come back up. I asked the nurse about it (who was TOTALLY awful and rude to us while we were there.. let me urine expire and I had to give a second sample.. which she also almost let expire.. DH had to call and remind her to come get it before it expired too and she never explained anything they were doing while I was there, hardly spoke at all other than initial brief questionaire and discharge) and she said baby looked fine.

subset: commoncrawl


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- Dora the Explorer (5)
- Wallykazam! (1)
- Ni Hao, Kai-lan (1)
- Wonder Pets! (1)
- Blue's Clues (5)
- Yo Gabba Gabba! (1)
- More Shows (5)
Coins, coins, coins are everywhere! Kai-lan would love if you helped Hoho collect them for YeYe's special red envelopes. She'll tell you which ones to gather.
Watch Ni Hao, Kai-lan only on Nick Jr.
Happy Chinese New Year! Fans of Kai-lan and her friends will jump for joy (and coins) playing this game. Use your mouse to move Hoho around to collect coins with different letters on them. Kai-lan will tell you which coins to collect. Watch out for gates that get in the way--click your mouse to make Hoho jump over obstacles and jump on mushrooms to do tricks. At the end you'll be united with the whole gang to get special red envelopes for the coins you collected! There are three levels, and each gets a little harder.
Parent Tip: Parent tip: Kids might need help getting the coins that are high up. If Hoho jumps on the mushrooms first he can get those floating coins up high.
Kids pick the paper, decorate, & create a printable paper lantern with Kai-lan!
Steer an ice coaster and help decorate a snow dragon--super!
Kids take a trip with Kai-lan and play "I Spy" along the way!
Master match-making skills with Princess Kai-lan!
Take a trip to China with Kai-lan and meet the baby panda!
Preschoolers puzzle out obstacles with the help of adventurous ants and Kai-lan
It's Panda-monium! Explore China with Kai-lan and get ready to meet baby panda!
Kai-lan and Tolee are spending time today playing with a baby panda!
An apple a day makes for colorful play!
It's dance party time! Click on DJ Hoho's colorful notes to get it going!
Kai-lan's favorite thing to do is hop in the water puddles. Will you help her?
Help Tolee collect Panda stuff as he bounces from one bamboo stalk to another
Rintoo & Hoho need help rowing their boat so they can win the Dragon Boat race!
Let's go on a magical word hunt with Wally and Norville!
Come on in and explore all the rooms in Dora's house!
Travel through Alphabet Forest gathering letters with Dora and Boots!
Kids help Dora save the Crystal Kingdom from the greedy king!
Hop aboard the train and uncover clues in all three cities!
DJ Lance's star fell off his hat! He needs help finding the four pieces.
Do your kids have the gaming power to save a princess from a magical tower?
In this game, the acts are in trouble, but teamwork can save the day!
Get ready to shout out BINGO!
Sing the alphabet with Face!
Oobi�s and your little one are letter perfect
It's rhyme time with Oobi! Collect stars when you pick the right rhyming word.
Polka Dot is blowing bubble letters that will form a word. Pop, pop!
Learn more about Blue!
It's the case of the disappearing letters!
Play a reading game with Blue where she teaches words to you!
Learn Spanish with Dora and Tico!
Help Blue find her baby brother!


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Making dollars and sense of Apple's enormous share of mobile computing profits
For the last few years, industry pundits have been reporting on the surprising gap between Apple's share of shipments compared to its share of profits. Investors care more about profits than market share.
On Monday of this week, John Paczkowski of AllThingsD wrote another one of these stories, quoting a report from analyst Tavis McCourt of Raymond James. Tavis is a sell-side analyst, and we've met many times at various trade shows and analyst events. I think he's a smart guy, so I am happy to pay attention to stuff that he writes.
Here is a snippet of Paczkowski's story:
Though it shipped only about 6 percent of the industry's smartphones and tablets in the second quarter, Apple captured about 43 percent of the industry's revenue, according to Raymond James analyst Tavis McCourt. And it generated an astonishing 77 percent of the industry's operating profits. This, even in a seasonally weak period for iPhone sales.
When I saw this, I knew something was amiss. There is no way Apple has only 6% of the industry's smartphone and tablet volume. No disrespect to the author intended, but my guess is AllThingsD misquoted McCourt's research report, or is mixing and matching smartphone and overall phone share numbers (but I'm guessing here, having not seen the full report).
Smartphone and tablet market share numbers
So what are the real numbers? The most recent quarter to have ended is Q2 of calendar 2012. Let's have a look at some of what the industry analysts have published, shall we?
First up is the smartphone segment. Data from Canalys shows that 158 million smartphones were shipped in Q2. Over 100 million of these were Android phones, and Apple shipped about 26 million phones, for a market share of 16.4%
Oh, and just in case you don't trust the Canalys report, IDC issued a press release that says Apple's smartphone market share stands at 16.9% for the same period. Pretty close to Canalys' estimate.
It is really interesting to see that Android controls about 2/3 of the smartphone market, and I'll come back to this in a moment.
But next up, let's look at the tablet market. Again, we turn to IDC for a nice summary of Q2 tablet sales. In the tablet market, Apple still dominates with a whopping 68.2% global market share. But that's on a base of only 25 million units (versus 158 million smartphones). Still, it pushes up Apple's aggregate tablet + smartphone market share to about 23%, which is significantly higher than 6%.
Why Apple earns 77% of the profit
Now let's get back to the key question:
How does Apple earn more than 3-fold the percentage of industry profits than it has in market share?
According to the Raymond James report, Apple has 77% EBIT share, which is accounting speak for "operating profits". It stands for "earnings before interest and taxes", if you care.
77% of profits with only 23% of shipments? Is this crazy talk? No. I don't think it's crazy at all.
That said, I will say that the Raymond James analyst had to make his best guess on many pieces of non-public information. Specifically, a lot of Android volume comes from domestic Chinese vendors. Canalys estimates that 27% of smartphone shipments go to Chinese buyers. In China, the top 4 smartphone vendors are Samsung, ZTE, Lenovo and Huawei. Keep in mind that none of these companies break down their profitability in smartphones. Hence the (educated) guesswork by any analyst trying to report on this.
Notice another trend among smartphone vendors in China? It's called Android. Apple is growing in China. It's just that Android is growing faster. And this massive growth of Android in China is a perfect example of why Apple's profits are disproportionately higher than its global market share.
It's all about pricing power.
Apple's average selling price for the iPhone is above $600. The off-contract price starts at $649. Compare that to the newer, and certainly more expensive-to-manufacture Samsung Galaxy S3 varies by carrier by AT&T starts at $549 and Verizon at $599.
Apple dominates at the high end of the market. And even without the highest-end phone around, they make more money per phone than Samsung.
But the big Android volumes are not coming from high end devices. Much of it comes from low cost phones made by Samsung and other leading OEMs (original equipment manufacturers).
Apple controls its entire platform. And for those who enjoy Apple's walled-garden ways, it makes for a simple and beautiful user experience. Apple excels at selling more expensive products by making them useful, simple, and gorgeous. Android vendors tweak the UI, but largely compete on hardware. It's more of a commodity fight.
Some studies show that Android market share has peaked in the US market. Yet it continues to explode in low cost markets such as China and India. This suggests Apple's disproportionate share of profits will continue.
But there's another interesting point to consider. Let's look back to China. Right now Apple is the #5 smartphone vendor in the country. But what about for tablets? Digitimes recently reported on research firm Analysys International's study showing the iPad holds 72.7% market share for tablets in China.
Tablets are a much newer product than smartphones. They tend to be secondary devices as well. I'm guessing most folks who do not own a smartphone would rather buy one before considering a tablet. This makes tablets more suitable to richer people. Again, this plays to Apple's advantage.
In time, as smartphone adoption peaks, and as tablet prices continue to drop, I'm convinced Apple won't dominate quite so much on shipments. And they may not control nearly as high of a perctantage of the industry's total profits. But until Apple shifts away from selling into the high end of the market (if it ever happens), Apple will likely hang onto its disproportionate share of profits, relative to shipments.
For vendors who sell lower cost hardware, perhaps we'll see a lot of inivation around alternative revenue strategies. We've started to see this with the Kindle Fire. My guess is there is a lot more to happen here. But that's a topic for a future column.
Have something to say about this story? Leave a comment! Need help with something else? Ask in our forums!
Reader comments
Making dollars and sense of Apple's enormous share of mobile computing profits
Re: "This makes tablets more suitable to richer people."
Maybe. But don't forget that iPad is cannibalizing the legacy PC industry. During a deep global recession. If low price and market demographics were that crucial, netbooks would have taken over the world by now. They didn't, and iPad was a major factor in stopping them.
Also, don't forget the shock and awe when Apple announced iPad pricing. Analyst consensus was $1000 for the base model.
Netbooks weren't going to take over because Microsoft wasn't happy that consumers were happy to run Windows XP on netbooks. They did everything they could to kill off Netbooks, most notably, by installing Windows 7 Starter on them once Windows 7 launched. Don't see any new Netbooks now do you? Microsoft crippled and killed them off to prep for their introduction of Window 8 Surface and Windows 8 Pro tablets. They hope to make more money from them than they did with the WinXP Netbooks. So, it was really Microsoft that killed off Netbooks, not Apple with the iPad. I'm not rich, but I got the iPad 2 for $399 when the new iPad launched. It's definitely useable for what I do with it but if Microsoft hadn't killed off the Netbook with Windows 7 Starter, I might've gotten one of those instead.
But to the point about Apple making more of the profits, even if you buy an iPhone 3GS in this day and age, you hold it in your hand and you feel a premium class product in your hand. Not cheap plastic. Same with the 4S. Premium form and function. In a year of use, my iPhone 4S has NEVER CRASHED and I run it 24/7 without turning it off for a year. THAT is a premium product. Android? Not so much. Yes, Android has all the wiz bang hardware and customization and whatever else you want if you're a tech geek, but most people are not and that is who Apple aims their products at. Everyone. Android is aimed at Engineers and NASA nerds. There is a minority of those types among the world's populace.


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|Greencastle, Pa.
|High School:
|Kinesiology: Sport Studies
The son of Timothy Smith and Cassandra Lewis... born 3-20-90 in Pittsburgh, Pa.
2012 Statistics
Competed in Texas vs the Nation All-Star Game... named College Sports Journal FCS All-America... named ECAC D-I FCS All-Star... named to The Sports Network All-America Third Team... tabbed to Beyond Sports Network All-America Third Team... named to All-New England Team... named to All-CAA First Team and College Sports Madness All-CAA First Team… team leader with nine tackles for loss, four sacks and three blocked kicks… two forced fumbles tied for second in CAA… blocked two kicks, including FG that was returned by Steven Thames 65 yards for a UNH TD in loss to Towson on Nov. 17… registered third career blocked kick with blocked FG in win at Rhode Island on Oct. 27... posted career-high three pass breakups in win at Maine on Oct. 20... named CFPA Defensive Lineman of Week Honorable Mention after making career highs with two sacks and five solo tackles at Georgia State on Oct. 6; added third career forced fumble… recorded five tackles, three solo, against Minnesota on Sept. 8... made two tackles, forced fumble and applied QB pressure that led to interception in win at Holy Cross... named to inaugural Senior Bowl Watch List... named Phil Steele's Preseason All-CAA Honorable Mention; ranked publication's preseason No. 23 defensive tackle nationally
2011 Statistics
Started in all 12 games at defensive tackle... his 43 tackles ranked second among 'Cats defensive linemen... posted 21 solo stops, 5.5 tackles for loss, 2.5 sacks and a blocked kick... posted multiple tackles in all 12 games... made eight tackles, including career-high six assisted stops, in NCAA second-round playoff defeat at Montana State... set career highs with nine tackles and four solo tackles in win over Maine... notched sack in win over James Madison... recorded half sack and pass breakup in win at Richmond... notched first sack of season in win at Lehigh and blocked a PAT attempt
2010 Statistics
Received 2010-11 CAA Commissioner's Academic Award... played in all 13 games, recording 38 tackles, eight solo... started five of last six games at DT... had 7.5 tackles for loss, tied for most among interior linemen (Mailloux)... registered four sacks, tied for second-most on team (Evans, Jenkins, Mailloux)... notched one blocked kick... made three tackles in NCAA D-I quarterfinal loss at No. 5 Delaware... amassed five tackles and a half sack in second-round playoff win at No. 13 Bethune-Cookman... had two tackles, including a sack, in win over Towson... made one stop in win at No. 9 Villanova... produced two tackles, including a half sack, in loss to No. 4 William & Mary... made five tackles, including 1.5 sacks, in victory over UMass in inaugural Colonial Clash at Gillette Stadium... collected four tackles in win at No. 6 James Madison... notched career-high six tackles, with a half sack, in Homecoming win against No. 11 Richmond... registered blocked extra point and made four tackles in loss at Maine... posted three tackles in win over Lehigh... had three stops in season-opening triumph over Central Connecticut State
2009 Statistics
Saw action in six games for the Wildcats... racked up eight total tackles, including five solo efforts... tallied three tackles for a loss of 21 yards... notched two sacks for a loss of 19 yards
Redshirt season
Career Highs:
Solo 5, at Georgia State, 2012
Assist 6, 2x, last at Maine, 2012
Total 9, 2x, last at Maine, 2012
Sacks 2.0, at Georgia State, 2012
Interceptions n/a
Fumbles Forced 1, 3x, last at Georgia State, 2012
Fumbles Rec. n/a
Blocked Kicks 2, vs Towson, 2012
Before UNH
Lettered in football at Greencastle-Antrim High School... led the Blue Devils to the playoffs 2006, 2007 and 2008... named First Team All-Conference and Second Team All-State in 2007 and 2008... played in the 2008 East and West All-Star Game


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Local Opportunity Event; Spring Line Preview with Star Stylist, Annie Grewe
Annie Grewe, Director with Beautycounter
Monday, January 21, 2013 from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (CST)
Who's Going
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Event Details
You're invited to be one of the first to view the
New Spring 2013 Stella & Dot Collection!
Join Baton Rouge Stella and Dot Leaders and Stylists
2013 Spring Line Launch!
Monday, January 21st, 2013
La Madeline
7707 Bluebonnet Blvd, Perkins Rowe
Baton Rouge, LA 70810
Drop in for fun with the girls, learn about the spring line!
Get training from local leaders
Interested in being a stylist or hosting a trunk show?
Learn about this ground floor opportunity with one of Inc. 500's Fastest Growing Companies! Take advantage of our January Sign On Bonus or schedule a trunk show to be one of our fabulous hostesses!
See the latest hot off the global runway trends for 2012!
Kick the new year off right & join us for our New Line Launch! Be the first to see, touch & style with the Entire 2013 Spring / Summer Collection!
Have questions about Local Opportunity Event; Spring Line Preview with Star Stylist, Annie Grewe? Contact Annie Grewe, Director with Beautycounter
When & Where
La Madeline
7707 Bluebonnet Boulevard
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Monday, January 21, 2013 from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM (CST)
Add to my calendar
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Annie Grewe


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Information Security Jobs and Training
Information Security Jobs and Training
Information Security Jobs and Training News
June 19, 2015
Apple sandbox flaws allow password stealing, communication interception
News roundup: Details have emerged about weaknesses in OS X and iOS that allow attackers to upload malware and steal passwords and data. Plus: More jump on HTTPS bandwagon; CSO/CDO salaries increase; 23% of software app components contain flaws.
April 24, 2015
Clarity needed to cultivate next-gen cybersecurity workforce
Millennials are hesitant to pursue a career in cybersecurity, mainly because they aren't sure exactly what the job entails -- and if they have the proper training for it.
April 22, 2015
Threat intelligence programs maturing despite staffing, tech obstacles
A Forrester analyst told RSA Conference 2015 attendees that enterprise threat intelligence programs are maturing, though obstacles like nascent technology and hard-to-find employees mean some firms may never reach full maturity.
April 20, 2015
Successful women in security tout need for mentoring, encouragement
Female infosec pros say the industry needs to do more to not only encourage women to pursue infosec careers, but also help mentor them along the way.
Information Security Jobs and Training Get Started
Bring yourself up to speed with our introductory content
How (ISC)2 plans to get millennials into cybersecurity careers
Video: Getting millennials into cybersecurity careers is a crucial way to close the hiring gap facing the security industry. David Shearer of (ISC)2 discusses how to make this happen. Continue Reading
Advice to help today's CISOs succeed at security leadership
Renee Guttmann, vice president of the Office of the CISO at Accuvant, talks to SearchSecurity about security leadership, and offers advice to today's aspiring CISOs. Continue Reading
What are the benefits of a having a CISO title in an organization?
Is a CISO title really necessary in an organization? Expert Mike O. Villegas explains why the title matters, as well as the qualities CISOs need to have to assert their importance. Continue Reading
Evaluate Information Security Jobs and Training Vendors & Products
Weigh the pros and cons of technologies, products and projects you are considering.
Women in security: Charting an InfoSec career path
At RSA Conference 2015, Cloudmark's Angela Knox discussed how she started a career in InfoSec and how the security industry can appeal to women like her. Continue Reading
Should privacy professionals be legal minds or techies?
Hiring privacy professionals for your enterprise can be a daunting task. Expert Mike O. Villegas explains the role and what qualities to look for in candidates. Continue Reading
Information security jobs unfilled as labor pains grow
Why cybersecurity hiring is the real cyberwar. Continue Reading
Manage Information Security Jobs and Training
Learn to apply best practices and optimize your operations.
How can organizations improve specialized security hiring?
A rise in specialized roles puts extra pressure on security hiring. Expert Mike O. Villegas explains how to meet this demand and find talented security professionals. Continue Reading
How can enterprises improve security hiring?
Security hiring is tough and hiring a CISO is tougher. Expert Joseph Granneman reviews how CIOs can attract talented CISOs to an organization. Continue Reading
How important is a security staff retention strategy?
Developing a staff retention strategy for your security team is a good idea. Expert Joseph Granneman explains some techniques for keeping security talent. Continue Reading
Problem Solve Information Security Jobs and Training Issues
We've gathered up expert advice and tips from professionals like you so that the answers you need are always available.
Vendor-neutral certification guide for information security pros
Experts Ed Tittel and Mary Kyle offer the definitive primer for vendor-neutral information security certifications. Continue Reading
IT certification guide: Vendor-specific information security certifications
Newly updated, experts Ed Tittel and Mary Kyle guide you through the crowded field of vendor-specific information security certifications. Continue Reading
Cybersecurity education: Planting seeds for the future
Southern Methodist University's Chang says the school's cybersecurity education program addresses the skills gap for trained staff in enterprises. Continue Reading


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The New Mexico State men's basketball team starts a three-game home stand with Utah State, Thursday, Jan. 17 at 7 p.m. and San Jose State, Saturday, Jan. 19 at 7 p.m. The games are AggieVision productions with Jeff Matthews and Glen Cerny. The games can be heard on the Aggie Sports Network and KGRT 104 FM in Las Cruces with the 'Voice of the Aggies' Jack Nixon, and the pregame show starts 30 minutes prior to tip. The games are also available in Spanish with Edgar Gardell on Vista 98.7 FM.
Thursday's game is tape delayed in Las Cruces until 10 p.m., CSN-Houston until 1:30 p.m. and Fox Sports-Arizona until 1 a.m. on Jan. 18. The game is shown live on Comcast across New Mexico, Altitude2 and ESPN3. Saturday's game is shown live in Las Cruces, Comcast across New Mexico, Altitude2, Fox Sports-Arizona, ESPN3 and tape delayed on CSN-Houston until 7 a.m. on Jan. 20.
New Mexico State Aggies
The Aggies have won four straight games and have a 10-8 overall record and 4-2 WAC record. Sophomore guard Daniel Mullings is leading the team with 14.9 points per game. Senior forward Tyrone Watson is also in double figures with 10.7 points per contest, while both senior forward Bandja Sy and freshman center Sim Bhullar follow with 9.9 points per game each.
Scouting Utah State
The Navy-clad Aggies are 14-1 overall and 5-0 in the WAC after a 66-60 win over San Jose State, Jan. 11. Junior guard Preston Medlin leads USU with 16.4 points per game. Junior forward/center Jarred Shaw adds 12.7 points and 8.7 rebounds per game, and senior forward Kyisean Reed supplies 12.5 points per game.
Series Notes
Utah State has a slight edge 35-29 lead in the all-time series despite NM State winning both meetings last season. The Aggies recorded an 80-60 win, Jan. 12, 2012 in Las Cruces and 80-69 win, Feb. 11, 2012 in Logan, Utah.
Previous Game
NM State defeated Utah State, 80-69, in Logan, Utah, Feb. 11, 2012, for the first time since Feb. 11, 2006. The Aggies posted their first sweep of the Navy-clad Aggies since the 2005-06 season. NM State had four players in double-figures with forward Wendell McKines leading the way with a game-high 20 points and nine rebounds. Guard Hernst Laroche had 16 points and seven assists. Forward Bandja Sy supplied 13 points, while center Hamidu Rahman had 10.
Scouting San Jose State
The Spartans have a 9-7 overall record and 3-2 league mark following a 66-60 loss at Utah State, Jan. 11. San Jose State plays at Denver, Jan. 17, before traveling to Las Cruces. Senior guard James Kinney has a team-high 20.6 points per game, while junior forward Chris Cunningham provides 11.0 points and 9.1 rebounds per contest.
The Aggies have a 32-12 advantage in the all-time series. NM State won both games last year, 79-63, Jan. 19, 2012 in San Jose, Calif., and 79-68, Feb. 25, 2012 in Las Cruces.
The Aggies defeated San Jose State, 79-68, in the home finale, Feb. 25, 2012. NM State had four players in double-figures on senior night. Senior center Hamidu Rahman tied a career-high with 22 points and 10 rebounds for his second double-double of the year. Redshirt senior forward Wendell McKines recorded his 16th double-double of the season and 43rd of his career with 20 points and 15 rebounds. Senior guard Hernst Laroche added 11 points, while guard Daniel Mullings scored 10 points. NM State finished the 2011-12 home slate with a 14-3 record and 6-1 in WAC play.
Aggies Survive Road Trip and Sweep
NM State escaped Idaho with a 71-70 win, Jan. 12, after sophomore guard Daniel Mullings hit a free throw with 3.5 seconds remaining in regulation. With the game tied, 70-70, with 3.5 seconds left, Mullings was fouled while trying to inbound the ball. He sank the second of two free throws to give the Aggies the lead. Mullings was 3-of-4 at the line and ended with night with eight points and three steals. Sophomore guard K.C. Ross-Miller had a career-high 16 points, and freshman center Sim Bhullar also had 16 points. Senior forward Bandja Sy added 14 points including a late basket in the final 10 seconds. The Aggies recorded a season-low four turnovers.
Aggies Earn Road Win at Seattle in 2OT
NM State recorded its first WAC road win of the year with an 83-82 victory in double overtime at Seattle, Jan. 10. Senior forward Tyrone Watson scored a career-high 26 points. This was the first multiple overtime game for the Aggies since the triple overtime thriller against Boise State in the 2008 WAC Championship game. Senior forward Bandja Sy contributed 23 points including a 3-pointer at the end of regulation to force the first overtime. En route to his career-high performance, Watson scored 14 points in the second half. He added five assists and seven steals, which helped the Aggies to a season-high 15 steals. Sophomore guard Daniel Mullings also helped defensively with seven steals along with 19 points and seven rebounds.
Overtime Games
The double overtime game at Seattle, Jan. 10, was NM State's first overtime game of the season. It was also the first multiple overtime game since the 2007-08 season. This was the first multiple overtime win for the Aggies since the 1997-98 season, when NM State defeated Cal State Fullerton, 89-87, Jan. 8, 1998. The Aggies are 4-5 in overtime games under head coach Marvin Menzies.
Ross-Miller Has Career Night at Idaho
Sophomore guard K.C. Ross-Miller helped the Aggies to a sweep on their most recent road trip with a career-high 16 points at Idaho, Jan. 12. He was 5-of-10 from the field, both personal-best marks, and it was his first multiple 3-point game (2-of-5).
Watson Leads Aggies at Seattle
Senior forward Tyrone Watson scored a career-high 26 points in the 83-82 double overtime win at Seattle, Jan. 10. He scored 14 points in the second half and eight points in the overtime periods, which was half of the Aggies' points. Watson was 10-of-18 from the field, both career-high marks, and 6-7 at the free-throw line. He added a season-high two blocked shots along with a career-best seven steals, which led to a season-high 15 steals for the Aggies, in a career-high 47 minutes of action. In the overtimes, Watson was 3-of-4 from the field and 2-of-2 at the line. This was Watson's second 20-point game of his career, and both have occurred this season.
Sy Has the Aggies Streaking
In the Aggies' four-game streak, senior forward Bandja Sy has increased his contributions significantly. He is averaging 19.5 points and 8.5 rebounds per game. Sy is shooting 56.9 percent from the field (29-of-51) and 40 percent from the 3-point line (4-of-10) in the last four games.
Mullings Lights up Opponents
Sophomore guard Daniel Mullings is leading the Aggies in scoring in 2012-13 with 14.9 points per game and 17.5 points per game in WAC games. He had 10 consecutive games in double figures.
Ross-Miller Right on Target
Sophomore point guard K.C. Ross-Miller is learning on the job this season. He ranks second on the team with 51 assists. Ross-Miller has three six-assist games this season. In WAC games, he is averaging 3.0 assists per game.
Bhullar Filling the Gap in the Paint
Since entering the starting lineup, Dec. 15, freshman center Sim Bhullar is averaging 13.0 points per game. He has eight double-digit games this season and has two 20-point games. He scored a career-high 25 points against Missouri State, Dec. 22, and 20 versus Texas State, Jan. 5.
National Rankings for the Aggies
The Aggies are currently 38th in the NCAA in rebounding margin (+6.3). NM State has out-rebounded opponents in 12 games. The Aggies are 49th in blocked shots per game (4.9). Individually, sophomore guard Daniel Mullings is ranked 45th in steals per game (2.17) and 61st in field goal percentage (53.3) as of Jan. 13.
Against the WAC Competition
Currently, the Aggies rank second in the conference in blocked shots (4.89 per game) and third in field goal percent defense (40.2), rebounding margin (+6.3) and defensive rebounds (26.22).
Individually, freshman center Sim Bhullar ranks first in the league in field goal percentage (62.3) and sixth in blocked shots (1.78 per game). Sophomore guard Daniel Mullings ranks third in steals (2.17), fifth in field goal percentage (53.3), seventh in scoring (14.9) and ninth in free-throw percentage (74.1). Senior forward Bandja Sy is seventh in rebounding (6.9).
In WAC games only, the Aggies lead the conference in blocked shots (6.50). NM State ranks second in rebounding margin (+3.3) and third in scoring offense (72.2), field goal percentage (47.6) and defensive rebounds (25.83).
Individually, sophomore guard Daniel Mullings ranks first in steals (3.33), fourth in scoring (17.5) and eighth in field goal percentage (54.2). Freshman center Sim Bhullar is second in field goal percentage (60.8) and blocked shots (2.67). Senior forward Bandja Sy ranks fifth in rebounding (7.5), eighth in scoring (14.5) and ninth in blocks (1.17). Senior forward Tyrone Watson is sixth in steals (1.67) and eighth in assists (3.67) and assist to turnover ratio (1.69). Sophomore guard K.C. Ross-Miller is seventh in assist to turnover ratio (1.80), and junior forward Renaldo Dixon is seventh in blocked shots (1.33) as of Jan. 12.
Aggies Control the Glass
NM State has consistently out-rebounded opponents this season. NM State is averaging 38.1 boards per game with a +6.3 rebounding margin. The Aggies have out-rebounded teams in 12 games.
Aggies Notch Double-Doubles
NM State has recorded five double-doubles in 2012-13 with junior center Tshilidzi Nephawe and senior forward Bandja Sy leading the way with two double-doubles each. Nephawe's first double-double of the season occurred at Niagara, Nov. 18, with 14 points and 10 rebounds. He also had a double-double against Louisiana, Nov. 23, with 10 points and a career-high 11 rebounds. Sophomore guard Daniel Mulling had his first double-double of the season with 21 points and 11 rebounds against Southern Miss, Dec. 1. Senior forward Bandja Sy posted a double-double with 11 points and a career-high 14 rebounds at South Alabama, Dec. 4, and 16 points and 10 rebounds against Texas State, Jan. 5.
Ready, Aim, Fire
The Aggie offense is strong with a team field goal percentage of 45.5 percent. NM State has four players shooting over 50 percent this season including freshman center Sim Bhullar (62.3), sophomore guard Daniel Mullings (53.3), junior forward Renaldo Dixon (51.7) and junior center Tshilidzi Nephawe (51.1). The Aggies have a better shooting percentage than their opponents in 10 games.
Aggie Aggressiveness Leads to the Line
The Crimson and White are continuing the trend of getting to the free-throw line in 2012-13. In 16 games, the Aggies are averaging 24.5 attempts per game, 6.3 more attempts than their opponents.
Crimson and White Defense is Stifling
The Aggie defense has been imposing in 2012-13. NM State is only allowing 64.3 points per game and has held opponents to 60 or fewer points in seven of the 18 games.
Defense in the Menzies Era
In head coach Marvin Menzies' six seasons, the Aggie defense has continued to improve during his tenure. This year NM State has already held opponents to 60 or fewer points seven times. Here's a look at how this year's team compares to previous squads.
Allowing 60 points or less
2012-13 7 games
2011-12 9 games
2010-11 8 games
2009-10 2 games
2008-09 3 games
2007-08 6 games
Mullings Fuels the Offense
In his second season, sophomore guard Daniel Mullings has scored in double-figures 13 times. He recorded his first double-double of the season with 21 points and 11 rebounds versus Southern Miss, Dec. 1. Mullings has had six 20-point games this season and eight in his career. His shooting has improved from a season ago with 40 percent or better in every game but two this season. Mullings is shooting 48.1 percent from the 3-point line. He also has three or more assists in eight games.
Nephawe Sidelined
Junior center Tshilidzi Nephawe has missed the last seven games with an injury. He had surgery on his right hand, and his return to action is unknown at this time.
Watson's Senior Campaign Going Strong
In his final season in the Crimson and White, senior forward Tyrone Watson is taking over a leadership role for the Aggies. He scored 24 points in the home opening win over Southeastern Louisiana, Nov. 15. He made two 3-pointers in back-to-back games for the first time in his career against Bucknell and Niagara. Watson has scored in double-figures in eight of the Aggies' games and has shot 44.4 percent or better in 12 contests. The senior leads the team in assists with 5446 including three five-assist and one six-assist games.
Sy Shoots and Scores
Senior forward Bandja Sy has been in double-digits in scoring for the Aggies in nine games and in double-figures in rebounding in four games. In the win at South Alabama, Dec. 4, he posted his second career double-double with 11 points and a career-high 14 rebounds. Sy recorded his third career double-double with 16 points and 10 rebounds versus Texas State, Jan. 5. That performance followed a career-high 25 points against UTSA, Jan. 3.
Menzies is the Fifth Winningest Coach at NM State
Head coach Marvin Menzies has recorded 112 career wins at NM State. He ranks fifth in school history, and directed the Aggies to their third 20-win season in his tenure in 2011-12.
All-Time Winningest Coaches (by victories)
Lou Henson-289
Neil McCarthy-229
Jerry Hines-157
Presley Askew-135
Marvin Menzies-112
Looking Ahead
The Aggies conclude the three-game home stand against Denver, Jan. 23 at 9 p.m. on ESPNU.


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I can't help it...even though my dd is happy and healthy and on her own curve...I was really bummed to hear her weigh in at 18 months was 17.6lbs. I was hoping she would break 20...at least. She eats fine...loves her fruit and veggies and iron levels are good (no anemia). Eat meat when she feels like it...so why doesnt' she gain a more weight?? Her dr isn't worried and since she was born she was a poor weight gainer...but still.
Thanks for listening. I guess ultimately i just worry because she is so tiny. Her length is about 31 inches so she is getting taller. ugh...frustrating. why can't I be the one who has problem gaining weight .


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Secrets of the PS4: Heavily modified Radeon, supercharged APU design
- By Joel Hruska on May 6, 2013 at 9:24 am
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In the Gamasutra interview, Cerny states the following: "we added another bus to the GPU that allows it to read directly from system memory or write directly to system memory… As a result, if the data that's being passed back and forth between CPU and GPU is small, you don't have issues with synchronization between them anymore… We can pass almost 20 gigabytes a second down that bus. That's not very small in today's terms — it's larger than the PCIe on most PCs!"
That sounds almost exactly like Garlic, with some additional HSA features baked in. Remember, the point of HSA is to allow CPU and GPU to share a common set of pointers and swap data more efficiently. It suggests that the PS4's interconnect structure looks something like this:
This simplified structure shows the GPU with the lion's share of access to memory bandwidth. Both the Onion and Garlic interfaces are faster than they were in Llano, and they're tied to much faster memory, but they function in the same basic way. This is the most logical design based on what AMD has done before, it incorporates the direct memory bus that Cerny discusses, and it would be the easiest system for AMD to design given the firm's limited resources.
The disadvantage is that it's not particularly efficient. This table of available CPU-GPU bandwidth in Llano based on the type of operation being conducted indicates the problem:
Much of the anecdotal information on the PS4 suggests that the chip is designed for a much greater degree of sharing than Piledrive/Llano. We suspect that Option #1 integrated HSA-like features with an APU-style design. AMD would have had to make a number of improvements to bring these various capabilities up to more uniform bandwidth / latency, but these were improvements the company was planning to make with HSA in any case.
Option 2: Hearkening back to R600 and a modern ring bus
AMD could have opted for a ring bus. Ring buses are great for joining multiple components in a high-bandwidth, low-latency configuration where data is shared across multiple elements. Intel uses a ring bus for Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge, and AMD's first programmable GPU (R600) used one as well. The advantage of a ring bus is that it'd be simple. Not every component needs the same amount of memory bandwidth (the estimated 176GBps of memory bandwidth would be wasted on the CPUs) so you end up with 20GBps of bandwidth for the CPU cores and 176GBps of bandwidth for the GPU.
Sony has some experience with ring buses — the PS3's Cell Architecture used one to manage communication between the various processing elements — but we don't think this is a likely approach for the PS4. There's no particular problem that a ring bus would solve, and no specific use-case that strongly suggests AMD would adopt one. Intel has used a ring bus in Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge, but these GPUs are tiny compared to the 18 CU design that's built into the PlayStation 4.
Next page: A third option…
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More marketing lies from AMD and Sony to sell an ultra-cheap, outdated, slow APU as it was a new excellent product.
It is not.
The CPU performance of the AMD APU hardware on Sony PS4 and Microsoft XBox720 it's on par if not slower than Intel Core2Quad Q9650 which is rather oudated, a 4-5 years old CPU.
The "next-gen" consoles are born dead already.
And the Sony and Microsoft marketing depts are trying to sell their frauds as if they did a lot of R&D to sell the best possible product ever. What a huge lie!
They hope people will be easily fooled and sheep enough to waste $400-$500 on outdated slow hardware. They are actually selling less than $150 worth of common PC hardware at over 3 times the price.
They think to be so smart at making a fool of people…
Consoles have always been outdated compared to PCs, but people don't seem to waste their money. We don't play for pretty graphics, we play for games, and ease of use.
The PS3 with its 8-cores Cell CPU was way ahead of anything that Intel or AMD had at the time.
Then Sony managers wasted time and didn't make full use of the Cell (they sold the tech to Toshiba and then bought it back.. and they even spent on R&D for a new Cell2 along with a true PS4 prototype but then they changed their minds because selling a cheap fraud if the marketing succeed could ensure easy money…)
Nintendo got away with outdated crap Wii console and bad graphics only thanks to a clever marketing campaign BUT that didn't last long.
And in fact the WiiU now that Nintendo tried to do the same trick has been a huge failure already instead. So now they "magically" made the WiiU games pirated copies to exist and be playable just a few days ago "it appeared on the 'net".. because they are in desperate mode and need to sell the crap at any cost.
That strongly depends on what you mean by ahead. Cell was by its own right technologically advanced when unveiled, but also vastly different than anything Intel or AMD had at the time.
Then what? Surely it wasn't any x86/x64 based architecture. IBM PowerPC with some Power CPUs tricks were at the core of Cell technology and design.
That is the reason why it was so advanced. IBM had and still has more resources than Intel to deliver the most advanced CPUs on the market.
Joel Hruska
"That is the reason why it was so advanced. IBM had and still has more resources than Intel to deliver the most advanced CPUs on the market."
By what standard? Not lithography. IBM is part of the Common Platform Alliance, which is still working on 28nm tech, with 20nm and below scheduled for risk production around the same time Intel moves to 14nm.
Not manufacturing. IBM's total wafer start capacity is a fraction of Intel's.
Not EUV. No one has figured EUV out yet, but IBM isn't leading the pack.
IBM's memory processes have a small advantage over Intel in some metrics at this time:
Besides that, I'm aware of nothing. Yes, IBM still keeps a hand in research. But when it comes to manufacturing and volume, they have faded from the market. It's not an accident.
Michael Norris
CELL was alien,it was a pain in the ass to work with period end of story.Console's do not need to be as powerful as high end pc's to hit their target performance anyways.
Bbbbutt…patchstation 3 iz a supercomputarrr
very mature
The ps3 cell processor was a hype from sony and nothing more. What kind of games took advantage of the cell cpu that the pc couldn't do or handle because the lack of the cell cpu?
noooooooo man no no shame on you i cant take the way you underestimate such BREAKTHROUGH tech as the CELL i agree with you gaming wise but computing wise….Pfffff this processor had sooooo much potential. now remember Other OS? you'll get me
Deitrich Houston
Gosh man… u really need to chill… its really not that serious… Wether the PS or Xbox. We still have some of the best games to come around on along time… one thing u need to realize Cho is we dont, well I, dnt care about what fatory sony closed or how much they spent on the cell. All of that is not relevant to me. Games that I play that you douche bags cant play. Thats what makes me smile. The more you over grown babies whine the funnier…
http://www.facebook.com/guy.parris Guy Parris
AMD cpu's are rubbish intel is the superior one out of the two! my i5 3570k destorys AMD'S fx 8350 4.0 ghz 8 core cpu! 8 core means shit!. mines is only a 4 core 3.4 to 3.8 ghz!. AMD are shit all round!. the reason why nvidia didn't see the point in putting any of there components in the ps4 because the gpu that's going into the ps4 is not powerful at all. they said its half the performance of a 670 which is like a 470 or 560 ti. just buy yourself a pc and be done with it you can hand pick the best of components and get your moneys worth instead of been given crap for 400 to 500 pound you will pay for the new consoles!.
Mike H
It's too bad your uber IPC quad core intel processor will be cache thrashing 8 threaded multiplatform games. Grow up, FX 8350 beats the holy hell out of 3570k on heavily multithreaded programs.
Dark Cyberian Knight
Technology so "advanced" no one can put it to practical use isn't an advance.
Urgh, your terminology is confusing… Are you referring to the SPUs or PPU? If the SPUs, you are correct, quite advanced except the programming paradigm was widly different from standard programming. The PPU has penalties and isn't anything special. It has a 50 cycle LHS (Load Hit Store) associated with many operations that the 360 does not… This causes serious issues for intensely used code that requires optimization. The Cell was engineered in a manner that caused headache to developers that the standard PPC cores did not have. Its a give/take with the previous gen all over the place.
http://www.facebook.com/guy.parris Guy Parris
its not just pretty graphics! games are cheap too and you get your moneys worth with pc! hahaha ease of use please! all you need to do is push a button and plug a controller in to a pc just the same as consoles. consoles users are clueless!. tbh pc is easier since you don't change disc to play another game its just 1 click of the mouse and of you go ;). you can easily build a better pc for 500 pound and have brand new games out for 20 quid! instead of paying 50 or 60 no doubt for new games on the next gen. all it is is money making and greed
But but, they come with a stunning 6 year old 500 GB hard drive! It's 500 gigs, how could you ever fill that?
Guy Parris
Abdul Rahman NADER
I absolutely feel that too! But and i think that this is the main reason that PC games visuals exceeds consoles not only because of the constant hardware update and detailed fairly-easy customization, The developers-end of the equation as they can easily develop stunning up to date graphics and physical computing art, matching the user expectations! since Microsoft owns the "chunk" of the PC market i think they are narrowing the way for PC developers so the can lead in their Console Market, -just thought!
But, still praising the console idea of being universal entertainment devices, in somehow! maybe because its one-do-it-all thing for many nowadays users!
which makes me question again, Why they are not sizing this exclusive opportunity and come up with a worthy piece that legibly last for another 4-6 yrs?! Due to their long-term marketing plans.
Because nowadays managers don't care about products quality and customers satisfaction at all.
They only care about cheating, pleasing Wall Street thieves, doing dirty business, committing frauds. They are just like bankers.
That is the reason why the worldwide economy is in a huge crisis.
Too many lazy people and too many thieves in key positions at top executive levels, banks, governments, companies/corporations.
They want to cheat and lie selling crap and get billions quicker than before with no risks, no effort, no hard work.
That is what they want. It's up to people to let these thieves get away with it getting richer and richer or not. It's up to people to decide if they want to be sheep and act like sheep and buy whatever obvious crap these managers thieves are selling them or not.
Christ is your soapbox worn out yet?
Joel Hruska
I have multiple problems with your analysis:
1) The GPU inside the PS3 was based on already-shipped Nvidia technology. In fact, NV had shipped its first programmable GPU (G80) before the PS3 debuted with GTX 7800-era hardware.
The Xbox 360 GPU *was* more advanced than anything ATI had shipped in 2005, but it was closely related to the R600 (which, in turn, was more advanced than Xenos when it finally shipped). In other words, there's a logical product cycle at work here.
The GPU's in the next-gen Xbox and PS4 are based on shipping hardware the same way the PS3's GPU was based on shipping hardware. That worked out pretty well.
2) The Xbox 360 and PS3 were *extremely* expensive. Microsoft is still a net $2 billion in the red if you consider the entire Xbox – Xbox 360 product cycle. Sony is $4 billion in the red. The PS3 makes money now, but it has not earned back the cash invested in it. Not even close.
3) It is illogical to compare Cell, Xenon, and Jaguar in a vacuum. These are vastly different processors. The reason Sony killed Cell development is because GPUs are now capable of doing many of the tasks it wanted to use Cell for.
You continue to complain about the lack of CPU power, but ignore the fact that GPU compute has obviated many of the reasons why Cell was designed the way it was. The reason Sony and MS have spent less cash on CPU technology is because they don't *need* to do so.
You see any cheap slow CPU with a 3-SLI config being any faster than most expensive CPUs at playing high-end games, perhaps ?
There is a lot of marketing hype on GPU tech like the algorithms stopped running and being coded for CPUs completely, but that is marketing depts cheating and nothing more than that.
GPUs are less limited than some years ago but are still a lot limited, they are no magic and programmers don't make full use of GPUs anyway on PCs either.
Some of the latest games on PS3 with its now outdated GPU look as good if not better than anything seen on PCs and the upcoming PS4. Which tells everything about what some proper coding optimizations can do..
Also, if you seriously trust the fake accounting they release claiming to have not earned anything out of either XBox360 or the PS3 then you really enjoy being made a fool by those managers.
Just like Hollywood is well known for fake accounting for movies, WarnerBros even claimed they lost money on Harry Potter movies—an obvious very huge lie but many trusted that, the same goes for the claims on consoles.
1. No you don't see any cheap cpu using 3-SLI or CX that doesn't make any sense so what's your point?
2. I don't see any marketing hype, if anything they are just showing or speculating what's inside the ps4 and how is it going to work. If anything the CPU is there to handle geometry, physics, I.A and sound. The rest the GPU takes care of it Textures, special effects etc. GPU's are limited to what? Explain. Programmers don't take advantage on GPU's because they work with outdated consoles hardware and that's were they make money from.
3.What the hell are you talking about? the latest games for the ps3 look good or better than anything seen on PC's? Are you high or something? If anything they tend to look slightly different, but only because the developers don't take the time to do a pc exclusive game, then port it to a console you will see the difference, but sense its done the other way around that's why we don't see much of a difference. Who's to blame there sony or the game developers?
Joel Hruska
Some of the latest games on PS3 with its now outdated GPU look as good if not better than anything seen on PCs…
Show me.
Dhiren Khandel
I agreed with some viewpoints but man you lost all credibility when you said "Some of the latest games on PS3 with its now outdated GPU look as good if not better than anything seen on PCs and the upcoming PS4. Which tells everything about what some proper coding optimizations can do.." Thumbs down man. Not cool and so untrue. PC gamers have always been the more serious gaming community. There is/was a certain amount of decent respect for games flying round a lot better than some whiny noobs on the consoles which is why I actually don't mind them existing. Sure they are social in ways the pc isn't (takes a bit more effort to get a pc up to that level) but I'm comfortable sitting at my desk not in the living room on a massive ass brilliant tv wasting it away on some sub par games. Even the uptake on pc component for desktop gaming have been just increasing. The figures don't lie. People are seeing what others have seen for years.
Philip van der Linde
Grow up and buy a pc for the 400 euros you would like to waste on the ps4, it would do you good :)
Philip van der Linde
Grow up and buy a pc for the 400 euros you would like to waste on the ps4, it would do you good :)
How do you know the APU from Sony's next console is on par or slower than intel's core2quad q9650 if they haven't done any benchmark against it? You're talking out of your ass like always.
Another PC fanboy. If you dont like the new consoles dont buy one its as simple as that. haters gunna hate!
As far as Consoles vs PC goes, it doesnt matter at all if the PCs are more powerful. infact I would go as far as to say that it would be detrimental to the console market if they were just as powerful as PCs. The real point of consoles is to have something the average uninformed consumer can pick up and start using in an instant.
Console games are easier to market and easier to make money on. they might look better on PCs, PCs might have the whole modding community to make their games even better however Consoles will still sell multi-platform games the best.
The average consumer I don't think cares that much about having the best graphics as long as they have the most fun playing they don't care too much what they play on.
Plus, console games just work. I've got a mate who can't run Civ V on his laptop after it was repaired, that ran it just fine beforehand. I've had issues running games like Mass Effect, Metro 2033 and Victoria II on PC. On console, you put the thing in and it just works. PC hasn't come close to getting that level of usability in over two decades of Microsoft's windows-style operating systems, and until it does, consoles will always have an edge.
That is why they put system reqs on the back of the box to make shure it will work before you buy
Haha, it's _never_ that simple – in fact, my machine was well above spec for all of those games (when I did get them running, they ran fine – I just needed to find an obscure VB.Net executable for Mass Effect, delete a cache for Victoria II and adjust the settings for Metro 2033). Jade Empire's another example that comes to mind (in that case, a filename needed to be changed).Simple fact is, many games don't 'just run' on PC – they need a little tweaking and sometimes an hour or two of forum searching before they'll start up. I have a GTX 660 and an i7 in my PC, but I play games on console when I can, despite lower frame rates and resolutions, because I know when I go to play the game I get to actually play the game, rather than spend an hour or two getting it to work. It's been this way on PC since the dawn of time (I used to play with config.sys files to get games to work before Windows came along ;)), and it's a huge advantage consoles have over PCs.
It's a bit like cars – most people like to buy cars that just work, but some enthusiasts happily get cars with a bit more 'baggage', because they enjoy doing them up. Great for the enthusiasts, but no need to bag the rest of the people driving ;).
As an aside – who buys PC games in boxes anymore? ;).
http://Xcite79.1up.com/ Keegs79
This is about console gaming, not pc gaming so yeah, it is pretty advanced for its specification. People who just play console gaming dont care how advanced pc gaming is, in fact a lot don't even notice or care. They like simplicity. There is no lying going on. Just you whining.
Console gaming isn't dead. Only someone insecure such as yourself would say such a thing and be on the defensive. Console gaming is safe and on top of all this, console gaming are built for gaming. You people never take that in account. It uses all its processing power for gaming, unlike PCs. That is just a little jab though.
In the scheme of things, innovative ideas and exclusive games is what we care about more unlike you PC gamers who think everything has to look pretty to be good.
Deitrich Houston
Jesus…. you pc guys are really bent up about all this huh? I dont care about how pretty pc graphic are. I dont think too many console gamers care either. What they do for us is fine for me. Now if I wanted super realistic graphics and physics, I would be a pc gamer. I cant play GoW on pc,Grand turismo, hell most pc games are multiplats anyway. Soon all of them will. Lol. Are we getting Diablo… yep… the only thing we wont see is a decent Civilization game. I lol at you crazy pc peeps. Not all jus the ones like the Chojin999 guy
I think you are missing the point of console games. You can't expect the next gen graphics cards, processors, RAM and HDD/SSD to be packed into a container and sell for $400. There is a reason top of the line PCs sell for thousands.
To me I see the PS4 as dedicated to doing possibly two tasks, play a game/play a Blu-ray. Everything else it will do likely pales in comparison to processing power. Unlike in a computer where you have dozens of background process, programs running and (depending on OS) a beefy OS sucking up large amounts of resources from processing, RAM etc… you would need the latest and greatest. If you cut out 90% of the background process, dedicate all resources to graphics and system processing, you don't need a $400 "next gen" processor. Not even with the latest games coming out. This is running Windows and so it doesn't need to support demanding gaming graphics AND a demanding OS. In the end when you buy a console, you are buying a graphics card, processor and hard drive. So yeah, $150 in hardware.
This thing is a computer connected to a TV that promises to support every game title that comes out. No need to upgrade, purchase new parts or check system requirements on the box. I call $400 a deal. Throw in multiple users playing on a single system and something small and quiet that sits under the TV and I say you couldn't do that on a PC.
And you might call them fools, but they found a way to sell something for profit. They are the smart ones. And if somebody thinks it is worth the money to pay for something like that, who is anybody else to say otherwise? Value is in the eye of the consumer.
This may be a bad example but you seem to keep complaining that this hardware is outdated. Well that fancy Curiosity rover on Mars is using computing power dated 10+ years now. Your iPhone is more powerful than curiosity in terms of computing power, but look what it can do. Because the numbers look less then what you expect doesn't mean it will under perform and play as and outdated console.
Bit of a PC circle jerk going on in the comments here. How's Sim City working out for you guys?
Happens every cycle without fail. Its like they feel threatened for some odd reason or are just caught in a lawnmower man loop.
Yup, rinse-wash repeat. About a year ago, consoles were dead. Now PC guys are defensive. A year after launch it'll settle down for half a decade or so then it'll all start again. Looking forward to the settling!
Joel Hruska
I'm neither offensive or defensive. I draw no conclusions about the power of the console — I just discuss its design.
Aye, but with little thought about the cost – I haven't done a study, but I'd wager the price of the highest-end video cards relative to consoles has increased over the last gen (I can't remember $1000 cards when the PS3 launched), plus it pays no heed at all to the value for money of consoles – for me to get a PC that handily out-did the PS3 (in effective terms – ie, how the games looked and played), I needed to spend more than three times as much. To beat the next gen of consoles, you'll need to again be paying 2-3 times the cost of the console for the same result on PC.
Joel Hruska
I expect PCs and consoles to launch at parity, with PCs slowly gaining an advantage as time goes by. I doubt you'll need to spend 2-3x to hit parity, but 1.5x wouldn't surprise me.
Philip van der Linde
Thats not accurate since pcs come with different specifications. I think the most advanced consumer based pc in the world would do al little bit better with overal performance than the ps4, don't you think?
Joel Hruska
I said "hit parity." The PS4 is a $400 system. 1.5x = $600.
That's a far cry from "the most advanced consumer PC in the world."
Ben Pottinger
This is absolutely incorrect at this point in time. The next gen consoles are being designed on x86 hardware for cost reasons because the market currently demands it. With the ipad and now android hoovering up a gigantic share of the market its turned dedicated consoles into niche players when you look at the money picture (someone above described it well with the massive losses MS and Sony felt on the last gen war they started). Based on released specs it looks like it will be comparable (but probably faster) then the A10 AMD APU. Not an expensive system setup at all. And thats if you have no computer at all now and your starting in a vacuum. But the real *killer* in PC gaming machine isn't the hardware or performance (you can get the performance of a console quite cheap now). Its Steam. With Steam on the computer gaming system you can buy and install games with braindead simplicity and you can get nearly anything you want onsale within months, sometimes weeks of its release. I buy 30-40 games a year and spend less buying those games then most console gamers spend on *4* games. Using steam, humblebundle, amazon digital sales and GOG you can end up with far more games then your ever going to have time to play. We could discuss exclusives but its a easy win for the PC side. PCs have 10s of thousands of "exclusives" the consoles will never see (well, wouldn't have seen. see below)
Sony and MS are not (totally) stupid. They know the market isn't great for a new set of expensive consoles that pay for themselves with 60-70$ software. I'd put money on them both choosing x86 to ease cross development from PC/x86 development houses to the console(s). If your a development house of 1 guy (lots of indies) or a small group of 10-20 then porting to PS3 (for example) is a tough thing to do. Yet with these new systems going x86 its going to be vastly easier to port your software to the console (especially with a development tool like Unity, or Unreal Engine for example). If you could massively increase your customer base (by spending a few hours porting to the x86 consoles) you'd be stupid not too. I suspect this is something MS and Sony both are betting on. Instead of having less than a hundred titles in the first year they could have thousands.
What interests me is how their going to shield their software from emulation. With them being built on x86 hardware emulation is going to be vastly easier. I wouldn't be surprised to see some serious (and possibly very annoying) DRM schemes being baked into these new systems. Time will tell.
Two things:
– There are currently over 150 million HD consoles in the wild, about the same amount (in fact, slightly more than) there were PS2s and Xbox's out there at a similar point in time in the last generation. Ie, tablets aren't stealing market share, they've created a new market. I don't know _one_ gamer last gen who's transitioned to tablet – plenty go back and forth from PC to console to PC, _none_ spend significant amounts of time gaming on 'smart' devices. It's not hard to see why, once you've actually gamed on them ;).
– Comparing spec-for-spec with PC isn't a fair comparison, and you only compared the GPU (the weakest part of the console setup).
Lots of good points in your post of course – particularly the one about porting and getting a good range of games, Sony knows they were hurt this gen and missed out on a few titles because they got a bit too creative with the PS3's architecture.
On the value side, PC still has an edge, although it's worth noting that the sales on the PSN side are getting much better – Tomb Raider was cheaper first on PSN, and the Assassin's Creed games tend to be cheaper on PSN (both on sale and regular price) as do the Darksiders games. Steam still has the edge, but it's no longer a big one, and Steam doesn't have PS+ (what you get for $70 a year couldn't be matched for $70 or even $140 through Steam sales). You've also got retail pre-owned opportunities with console games, something that PC hasn't had for many, many years (although who knows how long this will be around). And if you want your games new, the pricing advantage on PC is far less (ie, Rome: Total War). You're right that the PC has plenty of exclusives, but when you look at what PC gamers play, in large part (MMOs aside) it's console ports – most of the best PC exclusives are niche titles like Ship Simulator, DCS: Warthog or quality strategy games like Paradoxes and Firaxes work (and the Dune 2 'RTS' games that Blizzard/EA put out of course, but you've been able to get similar experiences to these on console since the PSOne/N64 era).
On the useability side, PC still (after Microsoft wasting 20 years squandering the opportunity) fails hard when it comes to useability. Far more compatibility issues (a numbr of games don't play nice with certain versions of Windows, even if you use compatibility mode – ie, SimCity 4 and Win 7) and a far higher rate of software issues relative to console (more CTDs, more issues just getting games to run in the first place – just hit up any tech support section in a PC games forums and you'll see what I mean). It's the useability side where consoles have always had and will continue to have their edge for many (I have a PC with an i7 and a GTX 660, and I still play my multiplats on console, because I prefer not dealing with all that rubbish – I'm a gamer, not someone who enjoys messing around getting games to run).
Damn these nerds need to break down everything piece by piece. Sheesh it's just console we all know that it's outdated.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Martin-Elisha/100000059040232 Martin Elisha
Ive red all the comments and I think your all right. console outdated/ people don't buy consoles for nice hardware but for final fantasy./yes the corps are greedy as fuck.
wow the pcn guys are REALLY on the defence nowadays.
go ahead. i play games, not CPU`s.
http://www.facebook.com/MASTA.SUSHII Gabriel Nieto
If I could have a gaming PC I would but its too damn expensive but hell console games look freaking fantastic too, plus all my favorite games are on consoles, what would I do without Halo or God of War! What about little big planet guys! Come on!!!
what? there is always lying going on!!!! it just gets worse. but yeah PS3 and 360 were top of the line when they came out. PS4 not so much. i wish they would just wait till 2014 to release it based of a GTX 870. that would be the proper thing to do. i want 10 teraflop performance not 2!!!!
"Supercharged"…ha, no LOL! ;) That's such a g*y buzzword, it's pathetic.
Joel Hruska
" i want 10 teraflop performance not 2!!!"
And I'd like a pony.
The midstream GPUs that fit in consoles aren't going to hit 10 TFLOPs. Not now, not in 2014.
gtx titan is 4.5 teraflops. gpgpu maxwell 800 series is gonna be around 10 teraflops. its a new architecture so the jump will be big like from a 7800 to 8800 back in 2006. titan is called that because it will be the fastest gpu ever because next year 800 series is not a gpu its gpgpu. cpu and gpu combined. no more bottlenecking the pipeline. shit is gonna be super tight in 2016 when volta comes out with its stacked memory. that will be another big jump probably close to 30 teraflops. imagine what nvidia tech demoes do today then make them fullscreen and fullyplayable and thats what video games will be like in 3-5 years. so whats wrong with putting a 10 teraflop gpu like the GTX 870 which will most likely be released between march-may 2014 in PS4? maybe 860 TI at 8 teraflops? i would settle for that. sell it for 500 take a small 100 to 150 dollar hit per console in the short term. everybody wins yeay!!! Im gonna be playing GTA 5 for the next year just like everyone else so why are they releasing PS4 this year with shitty specs and a crap games line-up. can you say WII-U part 2?
Joel Hruska
"The midstream GPUs that fit in consoles."
Did you read what I wrote?
Yes, GTX Titan hits 4.5TFLOPs. It's also a 7.1 billion transistor part that's bigger than the entire original Xbox 360 SoC on 90nm. Ditto for the Radeon 7970.
You can't put a 250 – 325W GPU *in a console.*
In point of fact, even if Nvidia delivered a 50% power reduction and a 50% performance jump every single year,it'll be two years before we see a 10TFLOP chip and four years before that 10 TFLOP chip is capable of fitting into a console SKU.
Which proves my point nicely. Thank you.
660ti pulls like 150 watts at 28nm….. 870 or 860ti would pull like 100 watts at 22nm…. it also has arm cpus built in…… this is called project denver….. a console based off this would need no more than 200 watts total….. how does this not fit into the power envelope of a console….. my first gen PS3 pulls like 200 watts. same shit…. different generation. I'm smart!!!
Joel Hruska
so how is being in the ballpark of 10 teraflops on a 300 to 400 dollar gpu by this time next year so inconceivable to you?
Because I perform this sort of analysis for a living and consult both the companies in question and historical trends before I make predictions, rather than pulling numbers out of thin air. :)
There will be no 10TFLOP single GPU / single-card products in 2014, from anyone, period. Not AMD, not Intel, not Nvidia. A dual-chip solution might hit that level, but the power draw and price point (over 500W and $2000) destroy your $300-$400 for 200W concept.
You're just wrong about this. And if you bothered to plot past trends or pay attention to tech disclosures, you'd know it.
dude since you are so smart tell me this. if you got a gpu thats at least 10x faster than your cpu and then remove this bottleneck by building your cpu cores inside your gpu how much of a performance increase do you get? its way more than 50 percent right? more like 200-300 percent right? that means full die maxwell 800 series should be in the neighborhood of 10 teraflops!!!!!! i want my 5000 core GPGPU console!!! well atleast i will have that next year in my pc when i buy a GTX 870 for 400 dollars. sli will be insane at 10000 cores!!! thats like having a render farm from 10 years ago in your desktop!!
Joel Hruska
"Dude since you are so smart tell me this. if you got a gpu thats at least 10x faster than your cpu and then remove this bottleneck by building your cpu cores inside your gpu how much of a performance increase do you get?"
Ok. Now I understand your confusion.
The answer to your question is 1-2%.
Just building a component inside another component doesn't magically improve performance. Look at the Xbox 360. Started off as two chips. Now it's one chip. Performance is identical. The PS3 is the same way. Started off as two chips, now it's a single, unified SoC. Performance is identical.
Moving components on-die slightly improves latency. It can reduce power consumption. But just putting two things *beside* each other doesn't magically make either of them faster.
Project Denver, from Nvidia, is a CPU. Maxwell is a GPU. If you integrate a PD CPU into a GPU, do you know what you have? You have a CPU+GPU. The CPU is used for CPU tasks, the GPU is used for GPU tasks.
AMD's HSA is used to move *compute* space closer together.http://hothardware.com/newsimages/item25497/big_hsa-slide-1.jpg
See how you have CPU and GPU touching a contiguous block of main memory? That's HSA at work. But it doesn't magically make the CPU faster. Once upon a time, AMD talked about bringing the GPU aboard as an FPU co-processor, but we're *years* away from that level of integration. Even if it can be done, it may not be very practical. It takes a non-zero amount of time to spin code to the GPU.
It makes very little sense to give the CPU unrestricted access to the GPU because CPUs run CPU code, compiled for CPU processors. You can't just run GPU code on a CPU (or vice versa) without substantial reoptimization. There's no way around that. There's no on-the-fly translation with great performance. The core architectures are too different.
Project Denver is an ARMv8 cores. Nvidia GPUs are NOT ARMv8 cores. Any such GPU would break CUDA compatibility, destroying NV's entire efforts to date. NV doesn't need a CPU that runs GPU-style code when it already has GPUs.
None of this means Project Denver won't be a great chip, but simply putting it on-die will not automatically confer a performance advantage.
why would they even be doing it in the first place if it was only an insignificant percentage? that makes no sense. we will see who is right next year then when maxwell finally comes out. im still feelin 10ish teraflops and 700gb second memory bandwidth. then i will cry when no games support this much power because of the stupid consoles.
Wow, you're really pushing the edge of slightly clueless aren't you? Haha
if they would just wait till next year and give us something high end it would last till 2020 all day. watch in three years they are gonna release PS5 with even weaker hardware just to mock us. but don't you worry. they will come up with an incredibly elaborate excuse to justify said raping.
Mark Cerny frightens me.
Yeah, he's a freak alright.
Mark Cerny frightens me.
i seens him once on the street and my mom was like "Get away from that strange man!!"
i seens him once on the street and my mom was like "Get away from that strange man!!"
they should do a re-boot of Strangers With Candy starring Mark Cerny. except less funny and more dark/weird. They could get Richard Simmons to do a cameo as his dad from time to time. Simmons would try to enforce a strict diet and excersise routine while Cerny constantly rebels and complains. That is the sitcom that exists in my mind so i thought i would share. Your welcome.
they should do a re-boot of Strangers With Candy starring Mark Cerny. except less funny and more dark/weird. They could get Richard Simmons to do a cameo as his dad from time to time. Simmons would try to enforce a strict diet and excersise routine while Cerny constantly rebels and complains. That is the sitcom that exists in my mind so i thought i would share. Your welcome.
Oh wow, more Sony overhype that won't deliver (only for N4Gtards). "supercharged" my *ss. Nothing about the PS4 is remotely fast by current PC standards. GFY $0ny!
Yeah, now the PS4 is almost as good as PC graphics in 2008. They must have worked really hard lol.
Joel Hruska
An 18 CU GCN GPU in 2008 with full DX11.1 support and compute capabilities would've destroyed any DX10 era GPU in terms of performance and power per watt.
I was just going by what I saw in the PS4 demo videos – they didn't look too impressive. Crysis was about 2008 wasn't it?
Exactly. The PS4 demos don't, can't and will never look impressive.
How could they ? Running x86/x64 software on a cheap slow AMD APU ?
And whoever thinks that there will be any real optimization for either XBox720 or PS4 thanks to both being AMD APU based must be really naive or paid to look naive.
Software Houses will release the same PC release code just re-compiled for Microsoft or Sony own encryption and distribution libraries.
Even worse they will pack the PS4 and XBox720 versions of the same games with lower quality textures because the hardware can't cope with higher quality bigger ones.
These new "next-gen" consoles crap fraud is the end of any true optimization from publishers, they will go for a quick easy buck.
That is the reason why these consoles exist. Trying to maximize profits with practically no effort anymore from both manufacturers and software publishers.
A real shame, that is what the XBox720 and PS4 really are.
It's up to the people to decide if they want to be sheep paying for bad lazy overpriced products with no product quality or not.
Joel Hruska
Crysis was late 2007, but I'm going to jump to 2008 to give you some comparison figures. (AMD's own GPU tech wasn't in great shape in late 2007; 2008 was a better year for this particular comparison).
In June 2008, AMD's best GPU was the Radeon 4870.800 cores, 40 TMUs, 16 ROPs. Single-precision GFLOP rate of 1.2TFLOPs. Power consumption of about 150W. 115GBps of bandwidth running on GDDR5.
The PS4's GPU is reportedly 14-18 CUs running at 800MHz. At 64 cores per CU (Sony is unlikely to have changed this), that's 896-1152 cores with a single-precision rate of ~1.8GFLOPs — but we know that GCN is far, far more efficient than the old RV700, which means it'll hit a much higher % of its theoretical output than the old chips could. Memory bandwidth is much higher (176GBps vs. 115) and the number of ROPs has doubled (32, vs 16).
Coding close-to-metal gets you a much higher use efficiency as well.
If you want a really good look at how games evolve, pull screenshots of Mass Effect and then compare them to ME3. I played through all three games a few months back; the difference is astounding. The biggest gap is between ME and ME2, but even ME2 to ME3 got a significant upgrade.
I don't understand – since when has sharing system memory been considered a good thing? Surely the GPU having it's own superfast memory would have been a better option?
Since the PS4 uses GDDR5 as system memory, which is what video cards use anyway? Why split it?
I'm not sure exactly how it works, but I'd have guessed that it would be better to have dedicated memory bandwidth to both the CPU and GPU. If they're sharing memory, surely they could both be fighting to get data at the same time, reducing the bandwidth. That's how it works with PCs anyhow, this system may be different.
Like I said tho, I'm just guessing and don't know much about the PS4 so I might be totally wrong.
Joel Hruska
Not exactly. You don't understand what sharing memory means in this context. There are two ways to think about the topic:
1) Classically, shared memory meant "CPU and GPU fighting for space on limited memory bus."
2) With HSA and heterogeneous computing, shared memory means "CPU and GPU use the same data structures and see the same areas in memory."
In the case of #1, the sheer amount of memory bandwidth fixes the problem. #2 is improved because for the first time, two different components can see and update what's in RAM.
Ah cool, thanks for the explanation.
That is what the AMD marketing dept tells the public.
It doesn't mean that is true.
And in fact it is not.
Joel Hruska
You're claiming that AMD's HSA initiative doesn't do what AMD claims it does?
I'd love to see your proof.
Trinity delivered precisely what AMD said it would. The next generation of HSA describes a method for sharing pointer and address space between CPU and GPU. It's been on the roadmap for years. The latest iteration of this technology won't ship until Kaveri, but the Xbox Durango and PS4 are likely to contain HSA-like features, even if they don't implement the full HSA standard.
So on the one hand, we have AMD, executing a roadmap it first laid out in 2011, saying : "This is us, doing what we said we'd do, step by step."
And on the other, we have you, saying "No they aren't."
Where's your proof?
Show me the technical documentation proving that HSA doesn't function in the manner discussed by AMD. Show me the *proof* that developers won't take advantage of it.
The success of the PS3 is proof that developers find ways to do things. It took years for publishers to tease out the best way of doing things with Cell, but in the end, yes, games take advantage of its capabilities.
Now AMD and Sony are saying: "We've simplified GPU offloading and unified memory space to make sharing data between the CPU and GPU easier," and you expect to be taken seriously just by showing up to say "Nuh-uh!"
There is no magic in the Cell architecture either. They downscaled IBM Power architectures in a very well designed package, that is the reason why the Cell acted like a supercomputer performance wise and was way ahead anything that Intel and AMD had to offer at the time.
If you seriously believe the AMD and Sony marketing departments on this whole APU silly lies either you are naive or you have a business reason to believe that just like their own employees tell the world.
Shared memory architectures will always be slower than dedicated connection paths. It's just plain impossible with non-quantum computers to think otherwise.
What AMD claims to have achieved is not going to happen even when hybrid and full optical CPUs will hit the market before the quantum ones.
A shared bus means lower bandwidth and higher latencies than dedicated paths. There is no way to change that.
Also ask yourself the simple question, why if it's so groundbreaking they haven't delivered it on their high-end Opteron CPUs first ?
Also they keep claiming the 176GByte/s GDDR5 bandwidth BUT that is only the theoretical maximum, rarely achieved in real world usage and actual average is far below Quad-Channel DDR3 bandwidth and even less than most Dual-Channel DDR3.
With the difference that a Dual-Channel DDR3 config 26GByte/s and Quad-Channel DDR3 52GByte/s bandwidth is the true sustained one and not the claimed theoretical maximum burst.
A very low end $50-$70 AMD APU is not going to be turned into an Opteron nor an Intel Xeon nor an IBM Power6/Power7 out of marketing dept magic claims.
Joel Hruska
What I believe is that Sony paid AMD to build the product that it wanted. I don't make *any* absolute claims about expected performance, beyond discussing the pros and cons of potential designs and noting that yes, I expect the console – PC cycle to repeat once again as far as relative quality levels are concerned.
"Also ask yourself the simple question, why if it's so groundbreaking they haven't delivered it on their high-end Opteron CPUs first ?"
Because Opteron is designed for an entirely different use case, with a different market in mind. That's like asking "If ARM cores are so great for smartphones, why aren't they in servers?" It ignores the fact that server chips need very different features and capabilities than smartphone chips.
Why isn't this ability in servers? Because servers don't need customized SoCs with huge paths to a large main memory pool that's shared between CPU and GPU with fixed function blocks for things like zlib and DSP.
Many of the tasks Cell was excellent at are now better performed on the GPU, but Sony still gets a nod for seeing the potential in 2003 – 2004 when they were building Cell. Similarly, these aspects of the PS4 may be adopted by the wider computing industry. Both AMD and Intel continue to integrate GPU functionality into more of their products, and it's not a stretch to see both companies emphasizing OpenCL and GPU computational offload as time goes by.
If Sony went with the design I think they used — Option #1 — than it's clearly a bit of a compromise. Nevertheless, it's a compromise that may be much easier to program and cost a great deal less money than Cell and the PS3 did six years earlier. If developers have an easier time delivering next-gen games that people want to play, then gamers win.
And you don't have to believe that next-gen APUs are magical devices to *see* that.
ARM never had any expertise in the server market nor supercomputers, at all. And ARM has no chance in either of those markets at this rate for the next 8-10 years. It might be able to match current Intel Xeon CPUs performance in 5-7 years time.
Their business was born on ultralow power embedded and mobile CPUs.
The Cell was a downscaled project of IBM Power CPU for high-end servers and supercomputers.
The best technologies are first used on high-end products and slowly downscaled into the consumer market ones.
Just like it happened with NUMA and multi-cores. Consumer CPUs slowly shifted toward that model in the last 8-10 years or so.
The whole AMD APU is an ultra-cheap very low performance downclocked low power design. The iPad6 Apple SoC A8X (?) is probably going to be faster than the AMD APU both CPU and GPU wise already.
That is highly likely going to happen because the AMD APU CPU performance is like that of a 4-5 years old Quad-Core Intel CPU and in 24 months the ARM 64bit CPUs on next iPad will be even faster than that at current rate, then Apple uses multiple GPU cores so it will be able to match the performance of the AMD APU low clocked GPU.
Its impossible to change chojin's mind, let him keep thinking of cheap APU'S are good for nothing. Why the hell do you want a super cpu in a console? If the damn developers don't know what do with it. Oh yes more call of duty games, more of the same.
It's up to the developers to make a fun game, regardless of the hardware.
Sony and their Supercharged BULLSHIT at it again. GTFO of business Sony!
Heh, eating those words now, aren't you?
Krishan Patel
I own both a gaming PC and a PS3, whilst the PC outclasses the PS3 by leaps and bounds it cost me roughly £850. I bought my PS3 for £400 at the time. If you had bought a PC fro that much at the time i can almost guarantee that you would not to be able to play modern games at a decent resolution and frame rate. What im trying to point out is the fact that consoles aren't designed to be cutting edge cause they are meant to have a life cycle of roughly 6-10 years. Pc's on the other hand cost a lot more and are constantly being updated. Visuals come at a price. So stop the arguing and just admit it..nothing beats the Wii.
http://twitter.com/Malboardsworld Malachai Hough
as usual everybody forgets the true purpose of consoles which is to actually play games, does it really matter about how much more powerful this console can be? we can still play great games right now at a good speed with great graphics, i don't really see why anybody would care except pc fanboys trying to one-up on eachover over hardware build.
I still own and play a PSone and i'm still impressed by some of the games graphics for the time, in no way does it take away from the overall experience and gameplay.
let's just look at this for a minute, what has great technical innovation in home console games brought us over the last few years, more cinematic type games with less actual gameplay(resi evil,final fantasy etc which are slowly destroying there own franchises), more fps games which everybody is pretty sick of seeing i mean how many things can you actually change in a FPS? More graphically violent games due to realism which again kind of defeats the object of escaping reality and playing a video game, hence the psycho's and screwed up kids who now exist because of such games.
I actually think WiiU will make a comeback, At first i was pretty confused as everyone else about the concept and the point to the console, but with a reduced price and access to a big nintendo library they could turn it around big time, the whole point of playing these consoles is for the fun games and i think wii u will deliver eventually like the 3ds, especially since we know the next gen games will be £50+ and just an upgraded cinematic experience, The wii u games are available for under £30, £20 cheaper than a new download game on the psn network for ps3! i think people want too much these days, we forget the whole point of a console it to play games not to do a ton of other stuff which is mostly just added crap which we will probably hardly ever use, so when you put things into perspective the ps4 and xbox 720 will not other anything much more of value against the current crop of consoles.
Joel Hruska
we can still play great games right now at a good speed with great graphics, i don't really see why anybody would care except pc fanboys
This is a tautology. You can't see what other games might be possible, because the hardware is the limiting factor.
Let me give you some practical examples of game innovations that require better, more powerful consoles and have nothing to do with just adding better graphics.
1) IllumiRoom (in a consumer-friendly form-factor at an affordable price point).
2) The Wii U's wireless display is extremely sophisticated. The Wii U may have less horsepower than the PS4, but the Wii couldn't do what the Wii U does. Future innovations in this area will require more horsepower.
3) Better, more exact motion controls. Any second-gen Kinect or PS Move needs more CPU power to handle the calculation.
4) Any type of interface with Occulus Rift, Google Glass, or second-screen gaming in general will require dedicated console processing power to offload quickly. Even if the application runs off your phone, that data has to be synch'd with the console.
5). Maintaining multiple high-speed streams of data across a house to serve multiple users simultaneously (another near-term future) requires more dedicated processing power. The PS3 and Xbox 360 aren't designed optimally for this kind of streaming.
6) One of the PS4's goals is to enable ray traced *audio.* That's a real possibility. It may never happen, but the PS3 isn't designed with such a functionality in mind.
Adding additional horsepower does a lot more than just add higher textures. And these are capabilities that divide current and next-gen consoles.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Darrell-Dorsey/1387702154 Darrell Dorsey
I'm just gonna wait until the 2 consoles are released and find out which one is better for myself. Until then, it's all just speculation!
daniel kkk
Are u nvidia fan chojin999