text:
If I get the letter / e-mail / text from at&t, I will just downgrade my data plan to the minimum allowed for iPhone (don't know what that is at the moment), and take my data to something like Clear. $45 / month, 4G (or sometihng like 4G) and truely unlimited.
Between the $30 "unliminted" data plan on at&t, plus the tethering plans, I will actually save money going with Clear.com
Screw at&t
More on AT&T's war on Jailbreak tethering
Last night word broke that AT&T was sending SMS messages and email to customers who didn't have tethering plans but AT&T suspected were tethering via Jailbreak apps like MyWi. In their messages, AT&T offers 3 choices:
- Stop tethering
- Voluntarily change to a paid tethering plan (and lose unlimited data if you were grandfathers in)
- Be forcibly changed to a paid tethering plan by AT&T (and lose unlimited data)
It's still uncertain if and how AT&T knows if a customer is tethering via Jailbreak. Theories include everything from deep packet inspection to use of WAP vs. ISP pipes to counting TTL numbers, to "they're bluffing" and simply targeting high bandwidth users.
Regardless, AT&T seems fairly serious about it this time. We heard from one reader who called in and tried to explain away high data usage on Netflix and other streaming media services, only to be told the AT&T tethering team would look into.
Tethering team?
While AT&T is able to charge what they want for any services they offer, it hits incredible unfairness buttons in consumers when they feel they're being charged double to use the same bits. With unlimited plans it's somewhat understandable -- AT&T's network would likely collapse in a puddle if everyone tethered all the data they could. With a 2GB plan, however, bits should be bits. How about this?
- Offer tethering for free on the 2GB plan
- Offer an extra 2GB for $15.
- Offer reasonable overage charges beyond that.
It lets bits be bits, it offers a fair way for power users to get more data, and it provides fair protection from the heaviest 1% of users who would put a huge hurt on the network.
(Disclosure: I'm on Rogers, they've so far offered tethering for free on any account with 1GB - 6GB of data a month since iOS 3, and personal hotspot is now free as well since iOS 4.3.)
Have you spoken with AT&T and their tethering team yet? What's your situation right now?
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Reader comments
More on AT&T's war on Jailbreak tethering
If I get the letter / e-mail / text from at&t, I will just downgrade my data plan to the minimum allowed for iPhone (don't know what that is at the moment), and take my data to something like Clear. $45 / month, 4G (or sometihng like 4G) and truely unlimited.
Good call!
Just checked.
I can go down to
DataPlus 200 MB for iPhone $15 / month. So, with the $45 for Clear, at $60, STILL cheaper than at&t and no cap on data. Plus my friend has gotten anywhere from 2Mb - 5Mb downstream. Chicago he was getting 5Mb down.
Not too shabby.
I understand that $60 / month is expensive, but to pay cheaper and screw at&t, it would be sweet.
Again if you are using more than 4Gb / month which is at&t cap, then you should investigate this option. and 4Gb isn't alot when you are streaming video / audio ALOT during the month.
Clear is just one option, I am not married to it. There are others out there.
No matter what they say, Clear is not unlimited. They do throttle. This article explains exactly what happened to me and almost certainly can happen anywhere.
I'm sorry (and to everyone else). I wasn't talking abuot the at home Wifi. I am talking portable WiFi (which is what you really ahve when u use your iPhone as a WiFi hotspot).
I am sure the throttling would still be an issue on your tower whether u r using the at home or portable WiFi hotspot.
I am just looking for an alternative to take with me whereever I am and have WiFi available. At home I would never using it (since I am lucky enough to have FIOS).
What is Clear's coverage like? What are their speeds like nationwide?
When AT&T were charging a tethering fee and not even giving extra bandwidth with the fee I voted with my wallet and went looking for a cheap MiFi service. I tried Clear but they do not offer service in my area at all (they refuse to sell to me based on my location). I ended up with a Virgin Mobile Prepay MiFi that uses Sprint's network that offered unlimited usage for $40/month. But guess what? Several months down the line they canned the unlimited offer and it is now capped at 5GB for the same price. Since I was not on contract I didn't have any say. Also in my experience, unless I had full signal on their EvDO network I basically didn't get any data transfer and at best only got about 1Mb/s down and 0.2Mb/s up if I was lucky and the MiFi was in the correct location and it was a full moon. You often get what you pay for...
That sounds great, but be very cautious of Clear. I was with them for a few months but dropped them after they admitted to throttling my network speed to as low as 0.25 Mbps. The worst part was that it wasn't because of my data usage, which was average. Rather, it was because of extremely high data usage in the particular towers that I most often connected to. Essentially, I was being punished because of other peoples' excessive usage, but I was still paying the same price. That didn't fly with me, so we dropped them.
If I'm forced to give up my unlimited data plan, I will buy out the contract, sell my phone and go to Verizon. I will not be bullied by AT&T, All there is to it. I've been with them since 2006 and if this is how they do business, then screw them.
Stealing? What're you smokin?
Last time I checked, you pay for your data, either your 200Mb or 2Gb plan, or you're unlimited, regardless you're paying for it, its not like you're going over any sort of allotted data to your account, you're just choosing to use it in another way than on your iDevice.
actually verizon does and only has the unlimited plan for the iPhone.
Yep! I'm ALWAYS a day late and a dollar short. Just bought it Sunday... :(
Ouch. Let us know if they offer refunds.
I wasn't even going to try for a refund. I look at it this way...I'll keep using it (from work, during my lunch hour) and hope to get a month out of it. That's the break-even point for what at&t would have charged me. I'd rather give the money to a developer as a donation than give it to "the man"! :)
I get it if you're using 10/20GB a month, but as I mentioned in a similar thread, I have a problem paying an extra $15 a month when I barely use 2GB per month. Offer me a 4GB tethering plan for the $30 that I already pay for unlimited, and I won't hesitate to jump on that.
Yeah, I'm in this boat too. I tether only occasionally to get my new iPad online when I've not otherwise got WiFi access for it- I use pretty close to 2GB a month and occasionally go over, which is why I've kept the unlimited plan. I'd be hard pressed to go over 3-4GB though- if I could legally tether for what I pay now or just a few $ more (think it's still highway robbery, but I'm not unwilling to compromise in hopes they'll use the $ to improve the network. Haahahahaa.) I'd settle for a 4GB w/tethering plan.
my thoughts exactly. you have to be tethering alot to rack up that kind of data. i use mywi when im on the go and i need it, like when at school since they dont offer wifi, and i dont want to use their computers. i was surprised byhow little data using a computer to surf the web actually uses. most my data is still from netflix, and general surfing on the iphone itself. i am yet to recieve the letter, however i would be pretty irritated if i did. i think their just assuming with the power users using 10g and close to that
I agree with you. I'm still on the unlimited and rarely go over 1GB. But I love that I have the option to if I really needed... Plus I dont agree with having to pay extra to use what I'm already paying for. Limit me to something reasonable (2-3GB) for the same price I'm paying and I will gladly sign up.
AT&T really just needs to invest in making their network better. Do they honestly expect us to believe that the 2% of people who have unlimited plans that tether are killing their network???? Think about that for a second. There's only so much bandwidth a single 3G phone has for starters, and they have it calculated by bandwidth how much it costs for each customer to be utilizing their connection all the time, which in turn determines their cost for the service per customer. If they don't calculate it that way then they seriously f***** up.
It's straight up inexcusable for a provider to behave this way. If they offered tethering for another $2-$5/month (on unlimited plans too) I bet everyone and their grandmother would buy a tethering plan and the sheer volume of customers that purchase it would make the company profits. The big reason no one wants a tethering plan is because: a. it's too expensive, and b. it's double taxation/charging.
So, when AT&T decides to get real, lower the price of tethering so everyone will buy it, or just leave those alone that are daring enough to do it now all will be fine.
To the exec that said "we want to make it fair for our customers" I say this to you: YOU DON'T MAKE IT FAIR WHEN YOU TAKE AWAY A CHOICE WE ONCE HAD. If having sanctioned tethering means giving up the unlimited plan . . . well that's a no-go. C'mon AT&T you're going to have to do better than that.
Like I said, if everyone had tethering because you made it a small upcharge I think you would be miles, and miles ahead. Plus it would draw a huge customer base from other carriers that you didn't have before. AT&T does like making money . . . don't they? Because right now it doesn't look that way.
I think you are oversimplifying AT&T's costs. It usually costs billions to upgrade a nationwide infrastructure like what AT&T has and it can't be done overnight because they ultimately have limited resources and there are all sorts of factors to include such as planning permissions, community relations etc.
It is not just a case of upgrading the data backhaul to each cell tower. A cell tower can only support so many users and if there is a sudden increase of usage on a particular tower it will mean degraded service for everyone else on the same tower. In that case AT&T may have to look into reworking their coverage for the area which will probably mean installing new towers. Cell towers are also often located relatively remotely due to NIMBY etc (admittedly they are ugly) so getting power and high speed data out to them can be exceedingly expensive. Microwave links are not always possible either due to terrain or ground clutter.
As for the cost structure, any consumer grade internet connection is going to be a contended service in order to be offered at some sort of affordable price. So that 'unlimited' claim by AT&T and every other ISP is just marketing and it comes down to playing a game with statistics, i.e. what price point should they use to cover existing maintenance & debt costs plus planned future upgrade costs vs. how many users are going to be on the network and what their average data usage is going to be like. No one expected the iPhone to be so popular and AT&T also do not seem to have much say these days about what goes into the App Store such as video streaming services like Netflix so data usage has gone through the roof.
I also do not think it is completely fair to criticize by comparing any network with anyone else's, especially in different countries, as the cost base could be wildly different. The US is probably one of the most expensive countries in the world to operate a nationwide infrastructure due to how spread out the population is while expecting coverage everywhere. AT&T also has far more iPhone users than any other network and stats have shown that iPhone users use their phones much more than other brands. Also while Verizon and Sprint may have larger 3G coverage and/or more data users in total, their 3G speeds are much less than AT&Ts.
So yeah it sucks that they charge so much, but I'd rather have a more reliable, fast network than one that is free but slow as molasses and even less reliable (although it has been great in my area).
That was a very informed post.
On a side note though... if I were to get a letter like that from them (I rarely tether, but sometimes do) I would drop AT&T and go to Verizon. Just so I can show them my opinion with my money. I've been with them for a very long time. They'd loose a customer since 2003, and they'd be forfeiting all the money I'd give them over the course of another 8 years. It would be very expensive for them to require me to pay again for the data I'm already paying once for.
Assuming I would be with them for another 10 years, sending me a letter like that would cost them over $15,000.
11 million of AT&Ts 14 million iPhone customers are on the unlimited plan. It takes about 540 days to get FCC approval actually erect a tower. A little less time if they are just hanging antennas on buildings. I usually get between 4 and 5mb down on 3G. That could cause some damage tethered to a laptop. You can't download a 2GB operating system with an iPhone like you can a laptop.
I've used MyWi (sparingly) when I was jailbroken, and although it is very convenient when tethering becomes "necessary", it is often very slow.
I guess I just don't understand why anyone would want to tether all day, every day, to watch videos and post on Facebook, with slow MyWi while running their iPhone battery dead. Unless one really needs their computer online to quickly do something important, that isn't possible to do on their iPhone, then what is the point?
Seems like a small group of people just ruining things for others, to me.
Right, so can you see why no one wants to pay $20/month for that on top of what they're already paying for the data?
Seriously though, I rarely need to tether but admit to paying "the man" last time I did. I was at a conference for a few days, and it was cheaper to sign up, pay $0.66 a day for tethering, and cancel when the conference was over than to pay $15/day for the conference hotel's WiFi. It cost me $2 to have tetherin for the weekend. Not bad.
I still maintain that they don't care. the only thing they might care about is a fire hazard and regulations more than who is paying them. As I said, they get paid per MWH. Who pays it, I don't think they wouldcare. But this is a moot point (since I don't know who would give electricty to their neighbor) and still not related to the topic at hand.
You know it's quite easy to go over "a couple of gigs per month" without ever tethering your smartphone...
I'm on Rogers and could this be the first time we get the better deal? I don't think they should force a fixed plan on tethering plan on everyone. Surely if they can take the time to track who is doing it via jail break then they could establish a system where if you are using exuberant amounts of data via the tether then you get hit with a premium.
EXACTLY! The CS rep at my AT&T store excitedly told me about the "tethering plan!". "4GB for $45!" WOW! And WHY exactly would I "want" to pay $15 more a month for data that I probably won't use anyway???
My sentiments exactly, Telco's charge you more and get away with it by "giving you more than you need" but if you were to take your actual average usage and apply the price to that - it's disgusting.
Tethering should be included, but not unlimited (as a net admin i acknowledge the essence of what they're trying to do) instead, have it reflect your plan, and in the case of unlimited plans (AT&T) they could cap it somewhere in the 6GB range and then offer higher caps at a premium. Fair?
ABSOLUTELY fair!
I was totally not ok with the 2gb + tethering cost = 2gb
2gb + tethering = 4gb shared
I picked it up with that change. I was using at most 800mb per month and will use tethering infrequently.
I do think tethering should be no cost, you can pay for the additional data.
and then keep unlimited tethering free.
that said, Apple needs to add in data usage by source into the OS and let me enter my billing period for "disclaimer rough" bandwidth usage reporting. I'd like to know how much bandwidth specific apps use.
Crying here is not going to get anyone anything. Writing stories on blogs won't faze them in the slightest about how it's unfair and you don't like it.
The only way AT&T will get the message is if people vote with their wallets. If you do not like the options AT&T provides then leave. That is the only thing they understand. Once you sign that contract it doesn't matter what you think, desire, feel is not right, or feel is unfair. You signed the contract, people should read the terms and understand them. When you signed your name on that dotted line you told AT&T everything was cool and what they are doing is fine.
Yes AT&T is double charging and it shouldn't be that way. But how is it their fault you didn't read the contract you signed?
Hey...Rene asked! And it makes ME feel better to vent! ;)
I'm currently (and will stay on ) the unlimited plan. I did jailbreak my phone, in order to "unlock" it for use with sim cards in Singapore when I travel. Since there is no unlock still, I went ahead and installed 4.3...I did not have any other jailbreak apps. I also have the iPad 1 3G, with unlimited data (Yup, I'm paying for both legally).
I see two sides to this arguement, but I think I agree with AT&T.
Most seem to see it as data to be used in any way they feel fit. As if they both one of those portable wifi host devices. I see it as unlimited data to be consumed by my iPhone, and as long as it is my iPhone using the data, I should be able to do all I want.
You are not in contract for any device to be used on the AT&T data plan, as if you are buying a portable wifi hotspot device, like Clear. Your data plan is for the iPhone. this is why a household with more than one phone has a data plan per phone.
I've nothing against jailbreaking. And install MyWi if you wish, as it is ur phone. But, just because you do, does not make your activity OK.
I think AT&T would not care about you viewing 60GB of netflix content on the iPhone...unlimited is unlimited. They may not like it, but they can't do much about it, because that is the contract.
But illegally using MyWi so your laptop can, is not very cool. What is the difference if device A uses the data vs device B? Well maybe there is data you would not bother consuming on device A, that you would on device B. And again, the data contract is data for iphone. not thru it, or around it or such.
Personally, I think they should allow it as many other carriers do, but the dont, so tough. Just because we dont like a rule does not mean we can break it. Just stop doing it, or pay for it, or go with a solution that is legal. The guy above mentioned using Clear... I'd do that too, if I needed many devices to connect. I just dont have that many devices I carry around. :)
I am willing to bet the "AT&T Tethering Team" doesn't exist. It's simply a scare tactic to make someone think they are going to get knocked down to the 2GB plan. They are trying to play bad cop. I'm now on an Android phone and I have been tethering and no SMS/E-Mail yet for us Android users (that I have heard at least). I will continue using the ad-hoc program I have to tether until AT&T tells me to stop.
I have no issues paying for a service that should be paid for. I do however have an issue paying to use data that I have already paid for just because I'd rather use it on my computer versus my phone. I also think AT&T is probably targeting the people who use a lot of data per month. Just don't tether 24/7 and I'm sure all will be ok. Just remember they are a cell phone service not the FBI you won't go to jail over tethering all they will do is take away unlimited plans. Have no fear and stay strong!!
I have one final thing to say about all of this....MyWi MADE me do it! ;)
I like the way you think! ;) (Let the flaming begin!)
what exactly can att do to those who are tethering? im also on rogers so im reaping the benefit of not having tethering costs, they were going to implement them but after the backlash that ensued by customers they changed it to just more than 1Gb
if you call in and say you want to stay on your unlimited plan, what can they now do? that cant remove miwi from your phone....now what? i only see this getting worse for att when blackberry os 6.1 offers personal hotspot to its users
If that's the case, people need to sell their phones and get Verizon iPhones. If not, stay with AT&T and make the claim that you use your data on other things and tethering for you doesn't exist. There isn't a true way for them to know if your using an app to tether. I never liked AT&T and the two times I was with them made me never ever decide to choose them again. I now see why I won't go to them again still, as they want to rob you for money either way. Its a company, but it shouldn't be messed up. Why don't they take their money and make sure they fix those drop calls I got for 3 months straight when I was with them. Or maybe fix that crappy customer care. AT&T isnt bad for everyone, but it isn't the best being a service that was rated the worst out of all major carriers in the us.
This post is completely incorrect on pricing. AT&T has 5 Data Plans for iPhone. AT&T has a 4GB tethering plan!
$15 for 200MB + $15 for each additional 200MB
$25 for 2GB +$10 for each additional 1GB
$40 for 2GB (enterprise server usage) + $10 for each additional 1GB (this plan is NOT needed)
$45 for 4GB (tether or non-tether usage) + $10 for each additional 1GB
$60 for 4GB (enterprise tether or non-tether usage) + $10 for each additional 1GB (this plan is also NOT needed)
Get your facts straight!
And what I need (want) is a tethering plan with a 2GB cap for $25. I don't consume most of the 2GB I pay for now anyway. Maybe with free tethering I would. And maybe then I might even go over and make AT&T some extra money.
Not sure why you say not needed unless you mean for iPhone - it us needed for Blackberry.
I am currently tethering as a replacement for my home internet service. Using Verizon 3G, that tethering is no where near as fast as my cable modem was, but it's fast enough to do common surfing. Many web sites today can detect your mobile device and automatically give you the mobile verison. The mobile version has considerably less data transfer than a desktop version. So, if you tether, the site doesn't detect your mobile device, thus giving you the full site version with all the ads and videos and stuff your mobile device can't handle. Big data transfer can easily happen on tethering versus going to the same site on your mobile. This is why ATT is likely cracking down on free tethering users.
Tethering every day for the past 2 months, I have yet to exceed 2GB in one month. If you watch your data, stay away from streaming video and audio, your data consumption will be mild. If I had an Iphone or Android, I'd probably tether a lot less. But I got a BlackBerry. It's a 2 inch screen. But if you got an iPhone, which doesn't do flash, and you want to go to sites that do flash, then that's a reason to tether. It doesn't have to be limited to a replacement for your home service. These mobile devices have big limitations that tethering allows you to overcome.
I have a 3rd party app that shows data usage, so I am able to keep an eye on it and notice quickly what activities are big data hoggers.
I tether with pdanet using my nexus1 on a tmobile unlimited data plan. I get great speed up & down and never a hassle.
My iphone 4 is on an unlimited data plan and is never ever used to tether but I saw yesterday that I racked up 3.34 gb of downloaded data in February. And I always use wifi at home! Wonder if I'll get a letter/text?
AT&T is? They detected you cheating when you assumed they couldn't. Who's the deficient one here?
Listen dude....I don't have a contract with AT&T concerning with Internet or tethering.....I just pay for my line (my phone number and minutes) .... before I jailbroke my iPhone I did not receive internet and now I do .... for no reason I stared getting Internet since I jailbroke it.....NOT COOL AT&T......and how is that cheating....
Considering that AT&T wouldn't allow an activation of an iPhone without some sort of a data plan, you must have activated a vanilla voice-only phone and popped the SIM into an iPhone.
AT&T can detect that you are using an iPhone, even if you aren't using data (but in this case, you were). They will automatically add a data plan to your account.
There is no known way to hide data usage from AT&T, even with a jailbroken phone.
What if you're a person who just uses a lot of data on their phone? They would be innocent victims of circumstance, and wouldn't changing or adding things to a customers plan without their consent be like illegal as changes can't be made to an account without the customers consent? Or if AT&T is checking apps on the phones, then isn't that invasion of privacy?
Most everyone has a router in the house, right? We're not expected to pay for that as an additional service. Agreed? Suppose we had to pay individually for each device we connect to our home Internet.
When tethering I'm routing a signal I already pay for. . . to myself.
So damn the man : )
Exactly the correct analogy. And from the sounds of things, there are apparently plenty of folks on this forum who would support such a move by the cable and telco Internet providers. I can't fathom their motivations but they are here nonetheless.
AT&T is in the wrong here. I predict that continued bad press will eventually make them fold on this issue. Why piss off your customers? They're the ones paying you.
That analogy is wrong ...when you buy service for your home, it is known you nave have several devices on it. If you bought a device that required "per device" charges, then you would pay per device.
If you bought a car that came with an unlimited supply of gas refills ...does that mean you could bring that car, plus several other cars you own, to the pump for a fill up?
The data was bought for the iPhone use, not other devices.
Yep. U signed a contract that says the data usage is for the iPhone only, and not for other devices tethered to it. Don't cry because AT&T is calling you out for going against the terms of the contract u signed. In the immortal words of MST3K's Gypsy: "This is your dish washing liquid, YOU soak in it!"
Contracts are re-written all the time. There is nothing about them that is cast in stone. Nothing new there either. And the fact that AT&T has reserved the right to modify the terms of the service in these contracts reflects that fact. This isn't about contract rights. It's about a huge company screwing it's customers because they believe that mere individuals have no real way of stopping them. They should be ashamed of themselves making people pay for the same service twice. Disgraceful behavior.
Really, "it's known". Where is it known? Some people use routers, some don't. And some service providers did try to prohibit the use of routers. The prohibitions didn't work because the mass of users simply refused to comply and enforcement was impossible.
We are still at the very beginning of the age of wireless data. If a per device charge is going to take hold, as opposed to a bandwidth charge, overall use will be limited. That doesn't help anyone. It hurts the consumer by making people pay multiple times for the same thing and the cost barrier limits market acceptance ultimately hurting the provider. It is our responsibility as the paying customers to make our desires known. That is what this is all about.
This article seems a bit fast and loose, particularly the "what if everybody did that" rhetorical move. Answer: nothing follows. If everybody on the AT&T net tethered and used exactly the amount of data they would have used on the iPhone directly (certainly a logical possibility), then there would be no impact at all. And that's rather the point. The assumption--by AT&T and the outraged hoards of AT&T customers, alike--seems to be that tethering necessarily inflates data use, making the discussion one of whether I have the right to use my "unlimited" data in whatever way I like.
But there has been no evidence whatsoever that tethering=increased data consumption. If speculation and anecdotes count (which apparently is the case), then I offer my own use as an example. I have a 3GS, an iPad1, and a MBA. I work for the fed, so cannot put personally owned devices on the net. While at work, I tether my MBA for email and iDisk/iCal syncing. I've never even hit the 200MB cap (at $15/mo), and I have an unlimited plan (for which I always have paid, and continue to pay, $30). Perhaps I'm just slow on the uptake, but I fail to see how this is somehow unjust to AT&T. I do, however, see how jailbreaking an iOS device to prevent throttling and then streaming HD for massive swaths of the day is conceivably abusive; but there has been no talk of AT&T doing anything about that. (I suspect that they can't cite knowledge of specific apps installed on specific customer devices, if this knowledge exists. As with throttling of home services, I imagine that AT&T is generalizing over information that they can acknowledge possessing, like the fact of a jail broken device--which is detectable--combined with particular patterns of data use.)
And that brings us to another thread of this discussion. The claim that using a router in one's home to share an unlimited data account is fundamentally different needs to be defended. It might be, but no evidence to this effect has been introduced. In fact, when cable broadband was introduced to some areas (e.g., roadrunner in s. FLA), they stipulated that routers were not permitted--a great example, it seems to me, of what attorneys call, "unactionable," since the only legitimate way that they can know this is if you tell them. So to suggest that companies would never dream of limiting the use of an unlimited data plan (or that we would never entertain obeying such rules) is just false: they did and for a while, some of us complied. Equally silly is to suggest that the use of a data line across multiple devices "is known at the outset" when establishing home service is just a stupid thing to say. How? Every home with broadband has a router? Multiple wifi devices? It may well be accepted as a likelihood, but that's a radically different claim.
The issue, surely, is what (if any) differences there are between the unlimited plans attaching to wired services and the unlimited plans attaching to mobile plans. (Limited plans, it seems to me, are not problematic; if I pay for 200mb, then I am clearly entitled to 200mb of data and if I prefer to suck that out of the ether via a purple Silly Straw, that surely is permissible, since I paid for 200mb of data. Unlimited plans are different precisely because we know that every unlimited data plan customer, in fact, uses a specific amount of data (not an infinite amount), and service providers bank on being able to discern the actual data use of people who have unlimited data plans. If tethering inflates the portion of "unlimited" that a given person uses, then tethering is relevant to the general health of the net, and so the general health of the system and the entitlements of all paying customers.)
Screaming that we should all, recklessly use as much data as humanly possible "to show them" is childish, selfish, and has nothing to do with the issue. (You might as well pout and hold your breath, for all the good it will do.)
It would be nice if someone with knowledge of data use patterns and the like could tell us whether--and most importantly according to what evidence we know this--tethering is known to impact bandwidth in the ways assumed, viz., inflating overall net burden. It seems plausible to suspect that some jailbreaking tetherers are using a lot of bandwidth without the limits attaching to pure mobile use (like throttling of movies, limits on gaming, preventing torrent downloads, etc.). I'm still not sure that these behaviors are abusive enough to justify AT&T's reaction, but that's why evidence is so important. It also far from unreasonable to suppose the worst of AT&T, since--let us be clear--the whole point of "minutes" is to charge customers gobs more than would be feasible if we called it what it is: data. Paying, say, $50/mo in minutes, because I can't as readily (or permissibly) use a data-consuming app included in my unlimited data that would get me those calls for no extra charge is simply fleecing people. We know it. The carriers know it. So the idea that AT&T would intentionally use a setup guaranteed to inflate our costs when there really is no technical justification is not only possible, but actual.
Now I'm going to go hold my breath until AT&T does what I want them to.
Sometimes screaming is the only thing a huge company will hear. Especially a huge company with a long history of anti-competitive behavior. You think that AT&T can be reasoned with. I think they are acting in bad faith.
Incidentally, I'm not jail broken or tethered. It just angers me to see a big company squeeze people because they think they can.
Paying for tethering is like having a dsl connection and charging extra if a second computer is using the connection. In most countries tethering is free and until recently at&t did not even provide this service. If they cant provide unlimited data then they should have started offering such a program. Now they are trying to punish loyal customers for years about their fault of not foreseeing the future of cell phones and expansion of mobile internet.
Incorrect -when a DSL connection is sold, the provider knows additional computers will be used. AT&T sold unlimited use by the iPhone, not devices tethered it it
I have never tethered before, but after hearing about this today I have downloaded MiWi and am using as much data as I possibly can. Bring it on AT&T!
The AT&T contract includes this clause:
Verizon LTE network and Droid Bionic in April (hopefully)....that's the plan. I wonder how much data I have to eat up before AT&T sends me this notice?
I just got off the phone with AT&T, after having talked to them for 45 minutes about this. I was told, by two different people during two different phone calls that they are NOT basing this off of your upload/download usage. I easily exceed 2GB a month (thank god I have unlimited), but I was told that they have a specific department dedicated to monitoring accounts for "illegal tethering". They can tell when you've shared your data connection from your iPhone with another device. All bias aside, this is creepy as f**k. I asked how they did this, and neither one of the reps I talked to was sure, and when I asked to speak to someone that works in this unnamed "illegal tethering" department, I was told they don't talk to customers directly. Very strange, and privacy invading. Hope this helps.
In another forum somebody used the analogy that jailbroken tethering is the same as sharing your water or electricity with your neighbors. This analogy is false because 99.9% of tether'ers do so for themselves in order to use other devices they own. So the proper analogy would be like this: For electricy it's like charging your 18Volt lithium battery to use in your dewalt cordless drill. Should the electric company charge you for the electricity used by the drill? Or for water, it's like filling up a few gallon jugs of water to take on a camping trip. Should the water company charge you extra because you didn't use the water directly out of the faucet in your house? Just because you are using the utilities for other means, you still paid for them! Same goes for data usage. If I am paying for unlimited, then I should be able to use it on any of my devices as I see fit. It becomes illegal when I start to share my unlimited data with other users.
Regardless of how the data is being used (tethering) we've signed up for UNLIMITED DATA PLAN!! I believe it is our choice of how we use the data!
When AT&T first had unlimited data plan offered they weren't aware of this tethering and now they are and want us to pay... I think this is completely AT&T's mistake. They should not have offered unlimited data plan or had tethering service from the beggining!
They should STFU about bandwidth BS and stop playing game with their royal customers!
Except as may otherwise be specifically permitted or prohibited for select data plans, data sessions may be conducted only for the following purposes: (i) Internet browsing; (ii) email; and (iii) intranet access (including access to corporate intranets, email, and individual productivity applications like customer relationship management, sales force, and field service automation). While most common uses for Internet browsing, email and intranet access are permitted by your data plan, there are certain uses that cause extreme network capacity issues and interference with the network and are therefore prohibited. Examples of prohibited uses include, without limitation, the following: (i) server devices or host computer applications, including, but not limited to, Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, automated machine-to-machine connections or peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing; (ii) as a substitute or backup for private lines, wireline s or full-time or dedicated data connections; (iii) "auto-responders," "cancel-bots," or similar automated or manual routines which generate excessive amounts of net traffic, or which disrupt net user groups or email use by others; (iv) "spam" or unsolicited commercial or bulk email (or activities that have the effect of facilitating unsolicited commercial email or unsolicited bulk email); (v) any activity that adversely affects the ability of other people or systems to use either AT&T's wireless services or other parties' Internet-based resources, including "denial of service" (DoS) attacks against another network host or individual user; (vi) accessing, or attempting to access without authority, the accounts of others, or to penetrate, or attempt to penetrate, security measures of AT&T's wireless network or another entity's network or systems; (vii) software or other devices that maintain continuous active Internet connections when a computer's connection would otherwise be idle or any "keep alive" functions, unless they adhere to AT&T's data retry requirements, which may be changed from time to time. This means, by way of example only, that checking email, surfing the Internet, downloading legally acquired songs, and/or visiting corporate intranets is permitted, but downloading movies using P2P file sharing services, redirecting television signals for viewing on Personal Computers, web broadcasting, and/or for the operation of servers, telemetry devices and/or Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition devices is prohibited. Furthermore, plans (unless specifically designated for tethering usage) cannot be used for any applications that tether the device (through use of, including without limitation, connection kits, other phone/smartphone to computer accessories, BLUETOOTH® or any other wireless technology) to Personal Computers (including without limitation, laptops), or other equipment for any purpose. Accordingly, AT&T reserves the right to (i) deny, disconnect, modify and/or terminate Service, without notice, to anyone it believes is using the Service in any manner prohibited or whose usage adversely impacts its wireless network or service levels or hinders access to its wireless network, including without limitation, after a significant period of inactivity or after sessions of excessive usage and (ii) otherwise protect its wireless network from harm, compromised capacity or degradation in performance, which may impact legitimate data flows. You may not send solicitations to AT&T's wireless subscribers without their consent. You may not use the Services other than as intended by AT&T and applicable law. Plans are for individual, non-commercial use only and are not for resale. AT&T may, but is not required to, monitor your compliance, or the compliance of other subscribers, with AT&T's terms, conditions, or policies.
portion of wireless customer agreement from AT&T which is given to each and every account holder.
I have never tethered my iPhone. I did receive the text message and letter from AT&T. I called their 800 number. I received a runaround. I filed a complaint with the FCC.
This morning, I was advised by the office of the president that because of the VOLUME of data I use that they have determined that i -must- be tethering.
No, I do listen to iheartradio and 5-0 radio and Facebook one he'll of a lot.
I my data usage doesn't drop, they'll automatically switch me to a tethering plan... EVEN THO I DO NOT TETHER.
Ok, who do I complain to or sign up for a class action with next?
I am having the same problem with T-Mobile, even though I explicitly asked about T-Mobile when I signed up, and was explicitly told that there was a free tethering app on the official Android Market, that I could get directly through my phone. Now I am under contract for another 6 months without access to the service I was told I could have.
Another person in my family plan was slapped with a tethering charge almost immediately after he upgraded to a 4G phone and signed on for another two years.
This is a classic example of bait-and-switch.
I do advocacy for a living, and this is not my issue. Still, I have a pretty good handle on how to make T-Mobile regret this. I am looking for anyone who knows how others are pressuring T-Mobile to back off, or who wants to help do so. There is supposed to be strength in numbers, after all.
I'll help
On Sunday October 16, 2011, AT&T spokesperson Elizabeth Facio announced that AT&T would no longer be honoring pryor unlimited teathering plans. She indicated technology limitations were the most decisive factor. Additionally, all other grandfathered plans will be barred from tethering altogether. Even pay per use tethering will not be available. Ms. Facio was unwilling to comment further, stating only that to tether, you must give up your unlimited data plan.
Thank you for this list of plugins! I was getting tired of trying to throw out keywords/test plugins on our site. Most of what you have listed here is exactly the stuff I was looking for.Really lot of info and it will be useful for my new site.


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A genealogy blog focused on families settling in East Tennessee and the Northern Neck of Virginia with explorations of Rusyn roots.
Friday, February 11, 2011
Alternate Realities
I've spent it at home, snug in my robe and slippers scanning 19th c. receipts, watching RootsTech presentations streamed live from Salt Lake City and the fall of a government streamed live from Cairo.
It is beyond my ability to process.
8 comments:
I spent it refinancing my house and visiting with and visiting with an old friend. Being off the computer and out of earshot of streaming news from Egypt for the first time in days. Cannot believe I missed the moment! Love the picture you give in your very short paragraph.ReplyDelete
I just made the comment to my husband imagining what it would be like if we had our country's move toward independence filmed. Wow.ReplyDelete
Haven't figured out how to get the Rootstech stuff yet. (I've not been home much anyway).
Absolutely surreal...and what a great way to sum it up in just a few words and a great group of pictures!ReplyDelete
Probably the closest you'll ever get to parallel time travel...ReplyDelete
A day you won't ever forget. Glad you got to do that. You wrote so few words, yet a lot was said.ReplyDelete
It was a great day!ReplyDelete
Specifically, how did you create your collage of screen captures and scans?
Kay - I used Picasa 3, which I have on my Mac. There's an option to create collages with selected images. The scatter/tossed in air collage is one of the choices.ReplyDelete
Comments related to the information shared here are most appreciated. All comments are moderated, and since I am not actively researching right now it many take a day or two for your comment to post. Please know that it will post, and that I much appreciate the feedback.


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Graceful Kalani 3 drawer changer is a perfect solution for those who want to complete the nursery but who lack the space to have both a changer and a dresser. Features 3 drawers for great storage space and changing station on top for convenience. Includes 1" foam changing pad and safety strap.
Dimensions: 35.5" W x 22.5" L x 41" H
Gift Wrap not available.


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Cutout Racerback Tank
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The Truth about Benghazi and the deaths of Ambassador Chris Stevens and others will be pursued until long after Hillary Clinton occupies the White House once again. The days where the Corporatocracy controls the narrative are long gone, thanks to alternative media.
It is in respect for this RPCV, in the stated missions of the Peace Corps, and in pursuance of secular ethics that those in power are repeatedly questioned and held responsible and that the truth is pursued consistently and their crimes are never forgotten.
This "Truth About Benghazi" presented by Stefan Molyneux moved me to remember not only this devoted man, but also the abhorrent futility of war. I joined the Peace Corps and continue to support its efforts for the very same reason as Molyneux consistently advocates his commitment to Truth and the Non-Aggression Principle.
"So really what is there to add to this chilling, almost I would say, demonic narrative other than to say at some point, we as a species are going to have to face the reality that the last war did little if nothing to prevent the next war; that the First World War sparked the landslide that lead to the Second World War, which created the conflict which led to the Korean War. which created the theory of containment that led to the Vietnam War. which led to all kinds of problems in America. led to stagflation and the arming of Al Qaeda and Bin Laden for the mujahedin, then lead to problems in the Middle East as a whole, may have led to the Gulf War, may have led to September 11, 2001, which led to the War on Terror. These dominoes are never ever going to stop until we look at history in frozen time and so look at history as it is and look right over our shoulder just in the short-sided rear-view mirror and say that last war was for nothing. The agony of that is almost impossible to comprehend. How a war can be worse than nothing?"
The Truth About Benghazi:


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Altvater: Back 9 Network releases inspirational new golf videoWritten by Fred Altvater | | email@example.com
The Back 9 Network is a golf lifestyle and news channel that will be coming to your television in the near future. They are in final negotiations with cable providers and expect to be operational later this year.
In preparation for their cable roll out, they have created original video content and broadcast through their website: www.Back9Network.com.
Back 9 Network is based in Hartford, Conn., and was developed as a complementary alternative to traditional golf media's focus on professional golf tournament coverage. They feature compelling story telling, interesting personalities, fashion, instruction and travel.
In partnership with Catapult Entertainment, an artistic shadow-dance company, Back 9 Network has created a new video titled, "Inspire 2 Aspire" that tells the story of a young African-American boy's journey through his life in golf.
The inspirational video is based on the life of Sanford "Sandy" Cloud Jr., who started as a caddy at a local country club and rose to become a prominent lawyer, civic leader, and two-term state senator.
The inspirational original video can be viewed here.
"We believe it would be most appropriate to release the video publicly during Black History Month since the inspiration for this film derived from Sandy's contributions to our community and our sport," James Bosworth, CEO of Back 9 Network, said in a news release. "As we share this collaboration, we remember that diversity forges growth and brings people together."
This short film presentation demonstrates the type of alternative golf ideas that Back 9 Network embraces and will bring to the golf world.
Ahmad Rashad, Anna Rawson and even Clint Eastwood are involved in bringing this new and evolutionary network to the public.
Back 9 Network takes a little different look at the golf world. It is not your father's country club blue blazer, khaki pants, traditional presentation of the staid and reserved golf community.
Back 9 Network will add a little chili pepper with jalapenos to the golf culture when it hits the airwaves later this year.
Fred Altvater offers golf tips and videos at www.toledoohiogolflessons.com. Email him at BackNine@toledofree press.com or follow him on Twitter @tolohgolfr.
Tags: Ahmad Rashad, Anna Rawson, Back 9 Network, Catapult Entertainment, Clint Eastwood, Fred Altvater, Inspire to Aspire, James Bosworth, Sanford "Sandy" Cloud Jr., The Back Nine


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Find the perfect hotel in Sainte-Julie using our hotel guide provided below. Explore our guide for inexpensive and discount hotel/motel rates in or near Sainte-Julie, QC for your personal leisure or group travel. We provide the best Sainte-Julie, Quebec hotel and motel rooms. Browse the Sainte-Julie area hotels to find the perfect lodging! Please use the provided map of the Sainte-Julie hotels.The Sainte-Julie center is about 10 miles from Montreal Biodome and 10 miles from The Olympic Stadium.
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Details and Shopping
Customer Favorite
Sheer mesh skirt with floral cutout detailing with embroidery. Waist is stretchy and smocked for easy fit and wear. A gorgeous and delicate looking piece that we love to find new ways to layer with!
*Nylon Mesh
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Length: 18 1/2"
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*Nylon Mesh
*Hand Wash Cold
Measurements for Size Small:
Length: 18 1/2"
Waist (all around - relaxed): 24"
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Rated 5 out of 5Â by beachbumn11 What a fun skirt! There are so many ways to have fun with this piece. The stretchy waist band is very comfortable. I am very short and fold the waist band over to shorten the skirt. It is completely sheer so if I am not wearing it over jeans I layer over neutral booty short and a FP slip/short layering item I bought last year sometime. It gets compliments from strangers every time. I am 4'11" 95 lbs, 33 1/2" hip and got the XS. I have hand washed it and it has held up no problem. 12.7.2012
Rated 5 out of 5Â by DoreenBC Cute I ordered this in black in size Small (waist 25" hips 35 1/2") and it fits snugly over jeans or leggings and stays in place. It is not nearly as delicate as the Lacy Layering Slip so will stand up to alot more wear, also the elastic is tighter. 5.24.2012
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Di Canio was sacked last weekend by Sunderland 24 hours after the defeat to West Brom amid reports that a number of players led a revolt against the Italian complaining to the club's hierarchy about his style of management.
Black Cats skipper O'Shea has now admitted the players voiced their concerns to the club about Di Canio which in the end led to the Italian's sacking, with Kevin Ball stepping in as interim manager.
Asked if Sunderland's players felt something needed to be done about Di Canio's regime, O'Shea told the Shields Gazette: "That was obviously done. But we have to move on now.
"Because of the position we're in in the league, we can't keep going back to it.
"We've got some difficult months ahead.
"Whoever comes in, whether it's Bally (Kevin Ball) or a new manager, we've got tough times ahead.
"We have to stick together and if we keep going back to it, it'll soon be too hard to pull back from where we are."


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Gorgeous and fun color. This color is extremely pigmented but can be sheered out with a balm underneath or with careful application. It does leaves a stain behind when it fades. I'd recommend anyone to try this type of shade out! It will make boring blah days into fun and bright! 😉
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Fuchsia Flash is best described as a less intense version of MAC Candy Yum Yum, so if you're looking for a more wearable version of that, I'd recommend Fuchsia Flash. Still, this is an intense fuchsia lipstick that is incredibly opaque and buildable. For a light stain, I pat this gently on my lips, but one swipe delivers thick, fuchsia color. It's a great buy (under $10.00), but doesn't fit all skin types…such as mine, unfortunately.
Maybelline Fuchsia Flash ColorSensational Vivids Lip Color ($7.49 for 0.15 oz.) is a bright, bold, and electric magenta pink with strong blue undertones and a glossy sheen. MAC Pink Pigeon is very similar in color but has more of a satin finish. Both OCC Nylon and MAC Candy Yum Yum are brighter and a touch lighter. MAC Dear Diary is a touch more magenta. MAC Show Orchid has fuchsia iridescence and is darker.


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Benson man hurt in Orwell rolloverStaff Report | February 26,2013ORWELL — A rollover crash has left a Benson man in the hospital with injuries to his neck and back.
Police said Brian Scott, 54, of Benson was driving north on Route 22A in Orwell late Monday when he crossed the centerline and went off the southbound side of road.
According to witnesses, Scott's vehicle struck several trees and rolled over several times before coming to a stop on its wheels.
Scott was taken to Porter Medical Center in Middlebury, where his condition was stable.
The vehicle was a total loss, police said.MORE IN This Just InThe family of a Connecticut man who was killed in a car accident on Route 4 last Friday night is... Full StoryAssociated Press Full StoryIt seems like I just started to warm up from last winter and I see back-to-school displays. Full Story
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- RICHARD'S POOR ALMANACK: On this day in 1472, Orkney, Shetland islands put up as collateral by Norway to Scotland in lieu of dowry for MARGARET OF DENMARK on her marriage with JAMES III, king of Scotland; 1962, JOHN GLENN first American to orbit Earth.
- TOMORROW'S HEADLINES TODAY: City mayoral candidates debate campaign issues; Hartford, Conn., woman still missing; Neal Goswami reports attempts to legislate suicide; local woman loses 100 pounds through TOPS program.
- RICHARD'S POOR ALMANACK: On this day in 1878, JOHN TUNSTALL murdered near Lincoln, New Mexico, by the outlaw JESSE EVANS; in 1930, ELM FARM OLLIE first cow to fly in aircraft, first to be milked airborne; 1955, nuke test WASP; '79, snow in Sahara.
- TOMORROW'S HEADLINES TODAY: Rutland Herald News Editor Alan J. Keays and staff writer Gordon Dritschilo discuss stories planned for the February 18, 2015, edition of the newspaper: Winter budgets maxed, legal marijuana, Springfield bank job, USPS slowdown
- RICHARD'S POOR ALMANACK: On this day in 1249 AD, ANDRE of LONGJUMEAU is dispatched by LOUIS IX of France to meet the KHAGAN, ruler of the Mongol Empire; in 1804, during 1st Barbary War, STEPHEN DECATUR scuttles the pirate-held USS Philadelphia in Tripoli.


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Malone's Liberty Global eyes Virgin Media
John Malone's Liberty Global is in the process of cooking up a deal to buy Virgin Media.
According to published reports, Virgin Media's price tag could be in the range of $24 billion, while its market capitalization stands at $10.4 billion. Including debt, its enterprise value is around $19.4 billion, according to data from Thomson Reuters.
Virgin Media is the second-largest pay-TV company in Britain after BSkyB, which is partly owned by Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. Over the past few years, Virgin Media has invested in upgrading its network. Virgin Media's partnership with TiVo has resonated with more than 1 million of its subscribers, while Liberty Global launched its Horizon service last year in the Netherlands and Switzerland.
Virgin Media acknowledged that it was in discussions with Liberty Global.
"Any such transaction would be subject to regulatory and other conditions," Virgin Media said.
"While Liberty's play for Virgin is likely to be driven by its long-term vision for the value a foothold in the United Kingdom will have a pan European triple-play business, and the competitive need to fight News Corp. at this scale, in the near term it will make the U.K. the ring for a straight slug fest between two global pay-TV heavyweights, John Malone and Rupert Murdoch, as they battle for U.K. fixed broadband, fixed voice and pay-TV subscribers," wrote Adrian Drury, principal analyst at Ovum. "Depending on how Malone might choose to leverage the Virgin Mobile asset, it may also spill over in consumer mobile services.
"Malone will bring the operational smarts from cable operations in 13 markets, multi-territory leverage with the major studios and sports federations, plus its recently launched Horizon next-generation pay-TV and multi-screen platform now rolling out across its European operations. But it will be facing off against a jewel in the Murdoch empire. BSkyB, by any measurement, is one of the best-run pay-TV operations on the planet."


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|49 posts found
So the OP is saying he's mainly a PvPer and yet most of the post is about how the PvE becomes boring after a while... I really don't know what to say here aside from leave the PvE and find yourself a good guild for WvW or start doing some sPvP.
Also, sorry but I can only laugh at people saying there's not enough emote, no /who, no /inspect and all that jazz, no game never needed those kind of crap to be a social one, its the players fault and only their, don't try to blame the game for the players lack of socialization. Sure the game might be designed without the need to socialize, but it also doesn't prevent you from doing so. Being able to compare your achievements and gear between players is the most useless thing ever. It won't make the game more social at all, quite the contrary. I don't care what you've done in the game, no achievements or gear will ever tell me if you're good or not. Its some useless bragging rights that doesn't mean s*** to me.
Lastly, if you need a purpose to play a game aside from having fun, I would tell you to quit gaming. I never played a game for something else than fun. That mentality of the need of purpose to play is beyond me. All this because someday, they started to add a leveling system and some stupid progression in nearly every single game. I remember the days when games had everything open/unlocked to you and you played to have fun and be the best, those days are long gone sadly. Now people have plenty of games with leveling, progression, purpose to play and yet they come here and bash the game that try to stay away from that crap. GG
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Advanced Member
Joined: 12/02/11
Originally posted by Mahavishnu
I am always wary of people who use 'best evarr'.
However, it is sad that no one is commenting on OP but hijacking the topic for their own personal hug box.
Novice Member
Joined: 8/02/11
Originally posted by Karteli
Case and point: ^This^
I'm a fan of the game and I should now acknowledge the 'fact' that is game is highly antisocial when everything I've experienced in the game has brought me to believe otherwise?
I have a character in the game named "Plant", too. I guess I fit into both categories for people who can't see the grand truth. /endsarcasm
Advanced Member
Joined: 2/14/10
there is absolutely no sense of accomplishment in this game. at the individual level, or group level.
Public quests are all the same. Levellin (after level 30es) gives almost nothing to look forward to. WvW is cap-recap-cap-recap tag game without any tangible end, it just feels like and endless usless cap-recap game. Mini games (BGs) they give you all your abilites, make you red or blue, completely impersonal. what is even the point of levelin if i can just que up for BGs and play as if i was already at end level?....
the thing is there is no point in fighting guilds from other servers. nobody gives a crap about such and such guild that you never hear of unless you are fighting them in WvW, and the only reason you are fighting them in WvW is because they are a different color (green, red, blue).
i accepted a guild invite when i started playing GW2. i have not as much talked in guild chat as of yet, and i could probably count on both my hands the times i've seen people talking in guild chat. nobody needs anyone, and everyone is just "doing their thing". the whole game was made with that mind set. everyone is replacable, and therfore nobody feels particularly useful.
nobody cares about server pride man, and that's pretty much all there is to fight for. i've felt more guild pride in one hour of crap game Mortal Online that i've ever felt in Guild Wars 2, and that is sad.
Apprentice Member
Joined: 7/28/12
I would like to shed a different perspective on the "anti-social" element of the game. I am very anti-social in MMOs, what am I doing playing MMOs? I don't know, god forbid an MMO just be a fun game, and maybe have a multiplayer aspect. So I don't like to talk a lot on MMOs, chat for some reason, on most of these games feels forced. Though I enjoy helping people in the games, thus I would try to play support roles, but it was always difficult for me to find a group, or just to help someone out in a field.
What I enjoy about GW2 is the no real party system, or atleast no kill stealing. I actually feel like I can help someone with a mob without getting yelled at afterwards, or worrying about the killing blow. In this way it feels more social to me than other MMOs, where I have to ask permission before hand to join a fight and help someone, where here I can just join in.
Now after the fight, most will just say Ty, and leave, but I like to hold hope that maybe it will become a conversaion, and add someone to my friends list. Alright I'm done here, now.
The more I'm around the forums on this site, the more bitter I become.
Originally posted by Serelisk
I'm on a discussion forum. There is nothing objective about it, unless I provide a link with objective statements. I still don't know where you stand, or what you like. I only now know what you don't like (my opinions) :-)
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
Spotlight Poster
Joined: 9/11/05
It's a console game wrapped in an MMO box.
Hard Core Member
Joined: 1/04/05
Originally posted by Serelisk
There's no point.
Given his past posts, he seems to be of the crowd that believe that games should force people to talk to one another. If a game doesn't actively force players to talk to each other, then they consider it 'anti-social'.
The problem with this belief is that in order for something to be anti-social, it has to actively be avoiding or discouraging social interaction. GW2 doesn't have a single feature (that I can think of) that discourages players from interacting. Furthermore, I can think of at least a couple features GW2 has that mostly requires you talk to other players.
More to the point, people like Karteli seem to be under the assumption that if they talk to someone else, that person should always reply back to them. This leads me to believe that they probably don't have the best social skills, and may need to spend some time in the real world interacting with people directly.
Heck, even just this morning I hopped on GW2 for a bit, and had a few lengthy discussions with random players talking in /map chat. I don't go around randomly /bow-ing to people and expecting them to acknowledge me, though. The world doesn't work that way.
Apprentice Member
Joined: 1/19/12
Originally posted by Jakdstripper The whole game was made with that mind set. everyone is replacable, and therfore nobody feels particularly useful.
Couldn't be any more on the money with that statement.
Final Fantasy XI Correspondent
Joined: 10/16/07
Thats a big Twinkie.
I'm a "world" pvper. I also stated that I don't care that much for instanced PVP. I like PVP to find me.. not the other way around. That was my fault for going into this thinking it wasn't going to be like that.
Originally posted by Nightgroper
You're doing well here for being anti-social .. BTW I love the game your avatar represents .. amazing soundtrack too :-)
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
Hard Core Member
Joined: 1/04/05
Originally posted by Pivotelite
That's only true to a point.
Everyone is replacable by default, but good players do stand out. Unlike in past game you can't just pick the 1 crucial class that nobody wants to play, and automatically be everyone's best friend.
There are still players I try to play with regularly, and if they leave the group it makes it highly unlikely we can handle certain content or strategies in WvW. This is especially true when it comes to mesmers & guardians.
Apprentice Member
Joined: 1/19/12
Originally posted by aesperus
WvW gives you no reason to organize or talk to anyone, it's zerg styled and all you have to do is follow the icon of the guy who bought gold. Not to mention the only thing up for grabs is "server pride" and for Anet, your gold, since WvW is a money sink and usually after the first day the match is already decided and you're only going in there to try to save yourself from boredom at that point.
No need for grouping for events or hearts, even if you just hit something once you get credit, encourages mindless zerging and lack of social activity. Nothing while leveling through GW2 requires the cooperation of two or more people, it requires you to just hit something someone else is hitting.
Hot-join SPvP, there's no drastic difference in rewards for winning or losing and no stats are saved on your character, therefore nobody cares, they join, they play, win or lose nobody cares nobody talks.
Lack of a trinity, you don't have a role, your only role is yourself, therefore nobody cares what happens and only you are accountable for your death. You're also easily replaceable and bring no specific value to a group.
Lack of any features at all which promote skilled individuals or guilds in the game outside of WvW, nobody knows who your guild is or what they do, yourself and your guild are just random cells in the entity that is GW2.
I could go on but ... I'm tired of typing.
Hard Core Member
Joined: 10/02/11
The Critical Hit Pretzel!
See you were confused how to play your class but let me give the truth... it is really that easy. Yeah, combat in GW2 is simplified to take on the concept of dodging adn being more active. Its really not complex at all. You aim for either condition damage or normal damage. Condition damage you focus on abilities that do that (given no cd on them) while normal damage will mostly be abilities that do straight damage.
Its actually so simplistic that it makes you think its more complex then it really is. They just make it really messy looking as if to make it seem more complex when it really isn't. Hopefully they clear it up for casuals so its easier for them so they aren't looking at it just puzzled at trying to understand things.
Originally posted by aesperus
I'm honored you would mention me!
Sweetheart, nobody is asking this game to force feed socialization. It comes naturally. GW2 does not provide this. It's the game style, it's the social mechanisms. If you can't see this, then I'm talking to a wall.
Nobody is avoiding social activity, but you really can't have the same social level as other MMORPG's when everything is scripted and auto group-formed. You simple can't. If you say you can, they you are lying.
Sure some alternatives can be met. Conversations can be struck up after the action. I did that, they were all meaningless -- more just ran away others just stood there (bots?).
I'm under the assumption that when I send a tell I expect a reply? Well if I never get replies how can you call this game social? Even if the other person /spit on me that would be social. But since GW2 emotes are so shitty, even /spit doesn't work. [Emotes are so lacking in GW2, even /smile doesn't work]
So getting repeatedly struck with no responses means I need to get into the real world? No it means I need to find another MMORPG. (which many others already did apparently judging by the absense of players in the world)
If You are a real fan of this game, you should start caring about what others feel.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
Originally posted by Purutzil
So you're a top tournament PvPer to say that the game isn't complex? You can beat everyone in the game? Yeah that's what I taught...
Apprentice Member
Joined: 7/17/11
Your not alone, I now 4 other people besides myself that bought and were playing the game together, we have all since quit. All for the same reason. It was like whats the point of what Im doing.
Great multiplayer experience I just dont classify this game as an MMO anymore.
Originally posted by aesperus
You're spot on mate! I couldn't said it better myself haha
Originally posted by Karteli
i totally agree with you on this buddy
Apprentice Member
Joined: 11/08/06
Originally posted by Karteli
Sorry..Karteli..but you are wrong... i've played many games with emotes that were just as anti-social if not more so... not to mention that in every game i play i never use emotes and even when ppl are being social.. i've never really seen others using emotes... if the only method of communication was emotes than what u say would make sense... but emotes cannot really express emotion or feelings.. they are very simple.. if you want talk with someone u have to whisper them or talk in /say... so it really doesn't matter... in the end everyone will be using the chat box... in guild wars.. they took out the middle man and left u the chat box.. there is nothing wrong with that... if ppl aren't interested in talking.. they aren't interested.. whether u use emotes or type in the chat... it doesn't matter.. they won't talk to you..


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Results 1 to 5 of 8
Thread: Middle name for Lux
July 10th, 2013 11:55 PM #1Junior Member
- Join Date
- Jul 2013
- Posts
- 1
Middle name for Lux
Hi there!
My husband and I are expecting our first child (gender unknown) and love the first name Lux. We are thinking of middle names and are having a hard time coming up with one we both agree on. We want something longer than one syllable (our last name is Young), and maybe something a little different, but not too out there. We also aren't into crazy spellings of normal names.
So far we like:
*Lux Emsley Young
*Lux Crews Young (family name)
*Lux Eveline Young
*Lux Maisie Young
Any other suggestions? For some reason the E names tend to sound better to us off the tongue, but open to anything! Thanks!!
Last edited by gooddaysunshine; July 11th, 2013 at 12:03 AM.
July 11th, 2013 12:08 AM #3Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2012
- Posts
- 3,488
The first two sound made up, IMO. Lux Eveline isn't bad, but I'm not sure how you pronounce it (like Evelyn? Or Eve, followed by the first syllable of Lena? I've heard both). And Maisie Lux sounds better to me, even though that isn't an option.
Some suggestions (a fair bit of E names):
Lux Caroline
Lux Elodie
Lux Fianna
Lux Elspeth
Lux Eloise
Lux Severine
Lux Elena
Lux Beatrice
Lux Andromeda
Lux Fortuna
Lux Mariama
Lux Nathalie
Lux Brielle
Lux Esther
Lux Zephyrine
Lux Montana
Lux Thalia
Lux Elisabet
Lux Seraphina
Lux Coralie
Lux Violette
Lux Madeleine
July 11th, 2013 12:13 AM #5Senior Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2011
- Posts
- 400
July 11th, 2013 12:18 AM #7Junior Member
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
- Posts
- 2
July 11th, 2013 12:22 AM #9☆Isobel★Eloise☆Matilda★Alice☆Eleanor★ Amelia☆ Elena★Mirabel☆ Felicity★Phoebe ☆Eilidh ★Rosalia☆Roisin★Azalea☆Elsa★Arabella☆ Genevieve★Elodie☆Tallulah★Ruby☆
☆Eamon★Tiago☆Cooper★Jack☆Jago★Flynn☆ Archer★Lincoln☆Asher★Alfie☆Taylor★Baxter ☆Finnian★Lawson☆Jasper★Lewis ★Oscar☆Fletcher★Caspian☆Miller★
Future middle names will honour family


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VMware Fusion 7 is optimized for the latest Macs and ready for OS X Yosemite and Windows 8.1 to deliver the ultimate Windows® on Mac® experience.
Ready for OS X Yosemite and Windows 8.1
Designed for OS X Yosemite
Get a more Mac-like experience when running Windows applications on a Mac. The Fusion 7 updated Yosemite look and feel makes working with your Windows applications feel cleaner and more refined. Adopting Yosemite's key design cues such as translucency in windows, streamlined toolbars and simplified Dock icon, Fusion 7 adds more dimension when managing virtual machines. Fusion 7 also leverages Yosemite's control features to ensure a consistent experience across the operating system such as entering full screen when clicking the green "stoplight", or being able to search and open your virtual machines or Windows applications directly from Spotlight.
Fusion 7 is also compatible with OS X Mavericks and OS X Mountain Lion.
Conquer Yosemite
Discover OS X Yosemite by running it in a virtual machine with Fusion 7. Get more from your Mac by running OS X Yosemite and OS X Yosemite Server in virtual machines. Leveraging decades of innovation in leading the virtualization revolution, Fusion 7 is the most reliable way to develop and test new applications for the Mac and iOS.
Ready for Windows 8.1
Get the most out of Windows 8.1 new features directly on your Mac and run Windows Store apps side-by-side with your Mac applications. With Fusion 7, view Windows Store applications in Launchpad and the Applications folder or put Windows Store Apps in the dock in Unity mode. Fusion 7 supports Windows 8.1, Windows 8.1 Pro and Windows 8.1 Enterprise.
Even Better Performance
Near-Native Performance
With a highly optimized 64-bit engine and multicore processing power that makes the most effective use of the latest Intel Haswell processors, Fusion 7 runs Windows and Mac applications side-by-side faster than ever. Fusion 7 delivers up to 43% improvement in CPU intensive operations like multimedia, encryption/decryption, and other strenuous performance tests. Leveraging the Mac's faster memory, faster SSD performance and greater power under the hood, Fusion 7 lets you run Windows applications at incredible speeds.
It's not just hype when VMWare claims that Fusion can run Windows software at 'near native' speeds.MacWorld UK
The Most Powerful Virtual Machines
With Fusion 7, you can create virtual machines with up to 16 vCPUs, 8TB virtual disks, and up to 64 GB of memory to run the most demanding applications. You can now give graphics-intensive applications an additional boost by allocating up to 2GB of video memory to a virtual machine. And with powerful 3D graphics and support for OpenGL 2.1 and DirectX 9.0c Shader Model 3 graphics, Fusion 7 will make running highly demanding 3D applications like AutoCAD or SolidWorks a breeze.
Here's where Fusion really impresses as at times you can completely forget that you're using a Mac, with software running as quickly as you'd expect it to on a PC.MacLife
Increased Efficiency
With enhanced App Nap support, Fusion 7 ensures that every watt of power coming out of your Mac's battery is used as efficiently as possible. If your MacBook Pro comes with a discrete GPU as well as an integrated GPU, Fusion 7 will automatically switch between the two GPUs to give you the ultimate performance while least impacting your battery life.
Retina Display Optimization
Windows never looked so good with Retina Display optimization for a crisp and detailed experience of your Windows applications. If your Mac has a native Retina display or is connected to one, Fusion 7 ensures you get a seamless experience when running Windows across Retina and non-Retina displays.
Enhanced Connectivity
Extend your Mac's connectivity to your Windows environment and take advantage of USB 3 support for ultra-fast file transfers or use AirPlay to view your Windows environment on your HDTV. Fusion 7 can also take advantage of popular ports in Macs such as the SDXC card reader to import and view your photos directly in Windows and view them on an external monitor or TV using the Thunderbolt port or HDMI port of your Mac. Fusion 7 comes with support for HD audio with 5.1 surround sound and Bluetooth 4.0 wireless technology. (USB3 support requires Windows 8 or higher)
Designed for Ease of Use
Fusion 7 enhances the way you experience Windows applications on a Mac. From its streamlined installation, to its different view modes and gestures integration with OS X, everything has been designed to give users the best way to experience Windows on a Mac.
We like the slickness of Fusion — it feels Mac-like and looks good.MacLife
Easy Virtual Machine Installation
The virtual machine installation assistant provides an incredibly easy way to install new operating systems on your Mac, whether installing from a Windows disc, migrating an existing PC, running Windows from a Boot Camp partition or installing OS X from a recovery partition.
Experience Windows Your Way
Full Screen View
For a complete Windows experience, run Windows in full screen on one display or across multiple displays connected to your Mac.
Single Window View
To keep your Windows applications separate from your Mac environment, run Windows in single window view.
Unity View
For a fully integrated experience, run Windows in Unity to run Windows applications without seeing Windows.
Gestures Integration
Experience Windows applications like Mac applications In Unity mode and toggle between full screen Windows and Mac applications, access Exposé, show Launchpad, view Mission Control or show your desktop using OS X gestures.
Use Specific Windows-only Devices on Your Mac
Fusion 7 lets you use Windows-only USB or Bluetooth devices on your Mac—from GPS receivers, to cell phones or mp3 players and other input devices that are only supported in Windows.
Updated Learning Center
The updated Learning Center lets you access a wide range of videos directly from within Fusion. Get access to step-by-step easy to view videos that will help you get started with running Windows on a Mac. Popular videos include purchasing and installing Windows from the comfort of your Mac, and migrating your Windows PC to your Mac


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bebe Heart Umbrella - ONLINE EXCLUSIVE
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Pretty shades of pink and heart print make this bebe umbrella an adorable way to protect yourself from the rain.
- Metal
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bebe Heart Umbrella - ONLINE EXCLUSIVE 2 2
returned it immediately...VERY poor quality Don't buy it. Very poor quality, I returned it immediately July 15, 2013
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1-2 of 2


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Biblical Studies
Bachelor of Arts
This program is for those who want to develop skills and methods for engaging in sound and thoughtful interpretation of the Bible for use in ministry or mission settings or as a firm foundation as they pursue a variety of careers in the marketplace.
More videos:
Career Fields
More than any other college program at Briercrest College and Seminary, the four-year BA Biblical Studies equips students to do biblical research and Bible teaching. It also prepares students for further undergraduate or graduate education, particularly in the fields of biblical studies, theology, and/or divinity.
Building upon the foundation of biblical knowledge at the core of all our arts degree programs, students majoring in biblical studies have the opportunity to take advanced courses in biblical studies, biblical theology, hermeneutics, and biblical languages (Hebrew and/or Greek) as well as courses that focus on the literary, cultural, historical, and geographical aspects of biblical interpretation.
Biblical studies majors also enjoy increased confidence in personal Bible study, valuable insights from the study of ancient cultures and original languages, and a deepening appreciation for the unity within the diversity of Scripture. This program is for those who want to develop skills and methods for engaging in sound and thoughtful interpretation of the Bible for use in ministry or mission settings or as a firm foundation as they pursue a variety of careers in the marketplace.
Successful graduates are well-equipped to provide biblically informed and theologically reflective insights to the church as it carries out its mission in a complex world. Past students have pursued many types of careers including that of a pastor, teacher, professor, or Bible translator.
Graduation Requirements
The BA Biblical Studies requires 39 credit hours of Biblical Studies courses (including at least 18 credit hours at 300+ level and six additional credit hours at 400+ level), 12 credit hours of cognate language requirements (Greek or Hebrew), and six credit hours of cognate Theological Studies requirements. Like most Briercrest programs the BA Biblical Studies requires 39 credit hours at the 300+ level within the context of a 126 credit hour degree.
Students will complete the four-year BA degree Core Curriculum, as well as 6 semesters of Service and Experiential Learning. As part of their graduation requirements, all four-year BA students will also complete the Senior Portfolio (PRT 400).
New students: apply to the college now and our admissions advisors will work closely with you throughout the rest of the process.
Current students: contact Academic Services to change programs and/or to be connected with a faculty adviser.
Degree Requirements
(126 credit hours: minimum 39 at 300+ level; 6 at 400+ level)
BA Core Curriculum
(66 credit hours)
Required Courses
(6 credit hours)
(33 credit hours: minimum 18 at 300+ level; 6 at 400+ level)
Old Testament
New Testament
Backgrounds and Methodological Issues
Cognate Language Requirements
(12 credit hours)
Cognate Theological Studies Requirements
(6 credit hours: minimum 3 at 300+ level)
Free Electives
(18-24 credit hours)
David Miller
David completed a PhD in Religious Studies at McMaster University in 2004, the same year he began teaching at Briercrest College and Seminary. As a scholar and a teacher, David's basic priorities are studying the New Testament in its first-century Jewish and Greco-Roman contexts and learning with students what it means to hear and respond to the Bible's address to Christians today.
Growing up in Kenya as a child of missionary parents gave David a love for international travel. He and Tenyia were married on a semester break during a year of study in Israel, and they recently spent a vacation visiting archaeological sites in Turkey. David returned to Israel in 2009 as one of the leaders of Briercrest College and Seminary's first Israel Study Tour. David, along with Kevin Daugherty, led another Briercrest study tour in the summer of 2013, "Following Paul in Turkey and Greece."
In his free time, David enjoys hiking, playing with his daughter Shoshana, and reading in his back yard under the amazing Saskatchewan sky.
Don Taylor
Don grew up in Ontario, and after high school and some job experience, he joined the RCMP and was stationed in B.C. Don married Tracy and they raised two children, Brad and Katie. After ten years in the RCMP and six years of youth ministry in local churches, Don came to Briercrest to study. While studying at both the college and seminary and taking on the task of policing in Caronport, Don was hired to teach part-time for the college and has been doing so for over 10 years. Through this time, he completed a doctoral degree with the University of South Africa, completing a dissertation entitled: A Narrative Critical Analysis of Korah's Rebellion in Numbers 16 and 17. Don has also traveled to Israel and was part of organizing two academic study tours to the Holy Land in 2009 and 2011.


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Home of Kurbside Kustoms Apparel !!
Purchase the design you want, if you prefer a different Size (up to 2XL Same Price) or Optional shirt colors (currently no extra charge) Light Grey (Ash) or Light Tan (Natural) Please send a note using Ebay Messages or an email to firstname.lastname@example.com Please include your ebay user ID when using email.
Download our April 2012 Ebay PDF Catalog here!
Check out our website. www.kurbsidekustoms.com Questions? Email us at email@example.com


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We're happy to announce the launch of our newest site – M5POST, dedicated to the 2012+ BMW M5 (F10). We've also launched our official F10 M5 Photo Threads, which provide a look into every F10 M5 color (standard and individual, as well as the interiors).
Specific topic discussion subforums will be added to M5POST as discussions heat up for the F10 M5, so be sure to check out M5POST after the jump!
The 2011 Frankfurt IAA represents the F10 M5′s general public reveal and BMW has strutted out not just the typical Monte Carlo Blue launch color, but also in Moonstone (Individual color), and Alpine White. It felt like ///M heaven walking into the M area.
There was also a Monte Carlo Blue M5 being used to drive around the BMW track in the exhibit hall, as well as the F10 M5 Safety Car.
The Alpine White M5 was paired with a gorgeous Sakhir Orange interior with black piano trim, … CONTINUED
The 2012 M5 (F10) will come in a fairly extensive choice of colors, including some beautiful individual exterior color options. One of the individual exterior color options is Brilliant White Metallic, which we've spotted hanging out at BMW M HQ in Garching, Germany.
Besides the individual brilliant white metallic exterior paint, the this M5 also has other individual options, such as the black painted mirrors and wheels. The red leather interior looks great set off against the white and black exterior color scheme.
As for not having blue … CONTINUED
We've compiled the following gallery of new renders, past spy photos, and samples from other BMW models to give you an idea of what the color palette will look like on the 2012 F10 M5. This will hopefully help our future F10 M5 owner members decide on the color for their new M5.
As we posted about recently, the F10 M5 exterior color palette will include:
The exterior colors are as follows:
Alpine White
Black Sapphire Metallic
The online visualizer for the F10 M5 has been online since Thursday, and the German F10 M5 Catalog is now available for download. Together they reveals the range of exterior and interior color options, as well as visual previews of the colors. We list them (and provide some examples) inside.
The exterior colors are as follows:
Alpine White
Monte Carlo Blue
Black Sapphire Metallic
Singapore Gray


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You don't have to be in Russia to get into the Olympic spirit this year! Want to find out more about the XXII Olympic Winter Games in Sochi? Have class research on the Olympics, sport tourism, or event management? The Rosen Library has plenty of resources to get you started!
Check out our new Olympics Research Guide, which includes coverage of the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi as well as information on researching the Olympics, available at: http://guides.ucf.edu/olympics
Or, come in to the Rosen Library and take a look at our current Winter Olympics Exhibit. All of the books in the exhibit are available to be borrowed from the library. More information on the exhibit can be found at: http://library.ucf.edu/rosen/Exhibits/default.php
Questions? Contact Us!
Rosen Library Homepage | Ask a Rosen Librarian | Rosen Library Hours


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Tuscarawas News Detail
Fall Job & Internship FairPosted Nov. 25, 2013
Date: Oct. 29, 2014 (Wednesday)
Time: Noon - 4 p.m.
Location: Kent Student Center Ballroom
Don't miss this opportunity to meet and network with representatives from a wide variety of organizations seeking interns and job candidates for immediate and future openings. ALL majors are encouraged to attend. Student/alumni registration is not required.
Students/alumni with disabilities requiring special accommodations should contact the Career Services Center recruiting staff at email@example.com or 330-672-2360 at least two weeks prior to the event. We will review your request and make every effort to provide reasonable accommodations.
University Closure and Cancellation of Classes: If the university is closed due to inclement weather (see the Kent State Advisory Page), this event will not be held. If classes only have been cancelled, visit the Kent State Advisory Page for updates regarding the status of this event. If this event is cancelled, Career Services will communicate with employers, students and alumni regarding next-steps when the university reopens.
Students & Alumni
- View and research organizations attending
- View networking and job search prep videos
- Attend a Fair Prep Workshop to get the most out of attending the fair
- SMILE: You're on LinkedIn! Sponsored by the KSU Alumni Association
~ Plan to have a professional photo taken while attending the fair! ~


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When choosing a car, an important aspect to consider is the type of fuel the engine uses. Generally, gasoline and diesel are the two most common types of engine fuels. A car equipped with an internal combustion engine and a spark plug ignition uses gasoline. Gasoline has a better burning rate than other fuels. It also allows the car to start quicker in cold weather in addition to providing smoother acceleration and more power. Diesel fuel, on the hand, is lower quality fuel burned by diesel combustion engines. These engines are ignited by the heat of compression rather than spark plugs and generally run more efficiently, last longer, and get significantly better fuel mileage than gasoline engines. However, cars that use diesel fuel tend to be noisier, slower, and harder to start in cold weather. As with all options, take these factors into consideration before deciding which type of engine you'd like your car to have.
©2006 Crossroads Mobile. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
Bluestreak Media


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ROSEMONT, Ill.---The Chicago Wolves and Milwaukee Admirals battled into a shootout Saturday night, with the Admirals earning a 3-2 Amtrak Rivalry shootout win before a crowd of 11,321 in the Wolves home opener at the Allstate Arena.
After trading goals for 40 minutes, neither team could dent the net in the third period or overtime. In the shootout, the Wolves converted two of their four attempts while Milwaukee scored on four of its five attempts to earn the extra point.
"We were upset about last night's game and tonight qualifies as a big step forward for us," said Wolves head coach Craig MacTavish. "We played a good, strong game, but we couldn't convert our opportunities."
Milwaukee (3-0-0-0) opened the scoring at the 11:30 mark of the first period when center Kyle Wilson found himself all alone in the slot and wristed a shot past Wolves goaltender Eddie Lack on the stick-side.
Chicago (0-2-0-2) evened the score when Milwaukee goaltender Jeremy Smith misplayed the puck behind his own net and left wing Matt Clackson pounced on the loose puck in the crease and banged it into the empty net at 16:29 of the opening frame.
The Admirals regained the lead with 1:20 remaining in the first frame. Center Chris Mueller stripped a Wolves defender in the far circle and snapped a shot over Lack's glove.
Lack (0-1-2) kicked out 21 of 23 shots in regulation and overtime and one of five attempts in the shootout.
The Wolves knotted the score at two when right wing Victor Oreskovich skated into the Admirals zone and sent a shot from the top of the near circle that deflected off a Milwaukee defender's leg and floated past Smith 4:54 into the second period.
Smith (3-0-0) posted 22 saves in regulation and overtime and stopped two of four shootout attempts.
The Wolves return to action in an Illinois Lottery Cup matchup against the Rockford IceHogs at 7 p.m. Friday, Oct. 21, at the Allstate Arena.
Milwaukee 2 0 0 0 (1) -- 3 Shootout
Chicago 1 1 0 0 (0) –- 2
First Period---1, Milwaukee, Wilson 1 (Bartley), 11:30; 2, Chicago, Clackson 1 (Miller, Roussel), 16:29; 3, Milwaukee, Mueller 2 (unassisted), 18:40. Penalties---Latta, Milwaukee (interference), 5:56; Van Guilder, Milwaukee (interference), 7:26; Haydar, Chicago (tripping), 8:19.
Second Period---4, Chicago, Oreskovich 1 (Erixon), 4:54. Penalties---Latta, Milwaukee (fighting), 3:46; Chicago, Roussel, Chicago (fighting), 3:46; Polasek, Chicago (holding), 10:31; Wilson, Milwaukee (unsportsmanlike conduct), 10:51; Doell, Chicago (checking to the head), 10:51; Lajunen, Milwaukee (high-sticking), 12:11; Duco, Chicago (slashing), 14:27; Sloan, Milwaukee (interference), 16:45.
Third Period---None. Penalties---.Polasek, Chicago (cross-checking), 11:09.
Overtime---None. Penalties---None.
Shootout---Milwaukee 4 (Latta, G; Bartley, NG; Thang, G; Wilson, G; Puustinen, G), Chicago 2 (Erixon, NG; Doell, NG; Haydar, G; Schroeder, G).
Shots on goal---Milwaukee: 9-6-6-2-1--24. Chicago: 11-6-6-1-0-23. Power plays---Milwaukee: 0-4. Chicago: 0-4. Goalies---Milwaukee, Smith (22-24). Chicago, Lack (21-23). A---11,321. Referee---Francis Charron. Linesmen---Peter Cichy and Mathieu Chenier.