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|53 posts found
Originally posted by jondifool
This helps a lot, thanks. I found the Mass PvP section especially interesting. Do you know if there's pvp in the game world itself? And if so, does your faction's success in pvp have any consequences on the players in your faction?
Also, the flexible classes seemed more similar to what TESO is going for that WoW, so that's helpful.
Originally posted by romanator0
So NPCs carry out quests and actions regardless of whether the player joins in or not, right? Then what do the NPCs do when they finish their quests? Do they repeat it? Do they move onto something else?
From watching the video that someone posted earlier in the thread, it seems like the NPCs sort of loop sequences of actions. So is the world changing permanantly as the player progresses through it, or is it changing momentarily and then resetting?
I'm also not really getting how GW2 has more freedom than WoW. It seems that you have a bunch of options as to which quests you want to do in GW2, but you have this in WoW as well. I think i'm missing something.
Originally posted by Vesavius
I'm not worried about GW2 competing with TESO or anything, it's just that people are arguing over whether what we have seen from TESO so far more closely emulates GW2 or WoW. I'm just trying to figure out what the differences between the games are (admittedly I don't know much about GW2).
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Joined: 3/18/04
Originally posted by jakojako
Alright then try using "EQ" clone instead b/c that's where it all started.
If you want to call GW2 a clone of anything, get it straight and call it a DAOC clone or something more imaginitive, even if the only reason you're here is for the sake of argument.
If you aren't actually interested in learning anything in-depth about this game that's fine too but next time try being open about that instead of trying to be sneaky. Even over the internets, some people can sense bad acting.
PS: That Elder Scrolls thing had an honest to god chance of being Awesome if it had organically grown out of Oblivion's designs. But It didn't and it's just been stealing every popular feature from every other MMO it can. Sorry to hear you're having trouble defending it, but have you considered yet that maybe there's a reason for that?
Advanced Member
Joined: 6/01/09
Originally posted by jakojako
MMORPG's are based on archetype..
GW2 is an Open WOrld, thus even if the mechanics are the same as another game, the gameplay will be much different, etc..
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
Originally posted by iller
I (and many others) use the term WoW-clone because it's the most successful MMO out today, and it's apparant that MMO developers today are taking ideas from WoW because of its success. They aren't looking at EQ for inspiration.
I also never called GW2 a clone of anything, I don't know nearly enought about it to make those assertions.
I'm also not trying to defend TESO (as of right now I'm convinced it'll flop), I'm just trying to figure out which game it most resembles. It is interesting that you said 'DAOC clone' because TESO seems to draw a bit of inspiration from DAOC (at least with the 3 factions)
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Joined: 5/14/07
I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.
Originally posted by jakojako
Seems like they removed everything from the game that made elder scrolls games so special
Originally posted by adam_nox
I dont know what TESO will be, but it looks to me that they follow the WoW road.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
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Joined: 3/18/04
Originally posted by jakojako
You're not alone then.... But be sure to come back and let us know your findings if it ends up stealing too much from GW2 like I expect it to
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Joined: 12/22/06
So NPCs carry out quests and actions regardless of whether the player joins in or not, right? Then what do the NPCs do when they finish their quests? Do they repeat it? Do they move onto something else?
I linked a video earlier that shows an example of what happens to one NPC after the event he kicked off is finished.
Events cycle, they do not reset. If a town has been wiped out by an enemy it will remain wiped out until someone rezzes everyone and takes it back from the enemy (which would be conveyed through an event). However, the town will be attacked again sometime, maybe by the same enemy, maybe by another.
In WoW you may have a quest to kill X of a mob, and a quest to collect Y off a mob. They may or may not be the same mob. If you kill X-2 of the mob for the first quest, will you get credit for what you've done? If you collect Y-4 of an item will you get credit for what you've done? Yes, you can opt to take the first quest and not take the second quest, or vice versa; in that sense you have "options." There is a breadcrumb trail where you'll eventually be led to "level appropriate" areas once you've completed the quests (in appropriate order, in the case of prerequisite quests) in another; once you've left an area, you essentially have no reason to go back, because you won't get XP for killing anything in the area, you won't have quests in that area, etc.
In GW2 there may be an event that asks you to kill mobs and put out fires. You can kill any number of mobs, put out any number of fires, or opt to only kill mobs, or only to put out fires. You will still be rewarded for your participation to the extent that you participated. You can wander off, distracted, after only having participated halfway to the conclusion of the event, and you will still be rewarded with a bronze medal (and according amount of gold, exp, and karma currency) for the work that you did. There is no breadcrumb trail, merely suggestions for areas that have "activity" going on. You can do these in any order (one event doesn't unlock others). There are recommended level ranges, but these can vary and scale based on the participants.
Further, you are rewarded commensurate with your level, even if you are in a lower-level area, due to level scaling.
This is what is meant by freedom.
Apprentice Member
Joined: 6/13/10
WoW is carrot on the stick, Gw2 is not.
Originally posted by sidhaethe
This is really what I'm trying to do though so I can understand whether differentiating between GW2 and WoW in comparing similarities to TESO is meaningless.
An example:
TESO's combat is autotarget with hotkeys; So is GW2's and WoW's
However, TESO's class system seems to be such that you can be whatever kind of character you want to be, and there really aren't any classes. This seems to be more similar to GW2.
I'm really looking for those kinds of things that reveal TESO to be more of a GW2 clone or a WoW clone.
If most qualities end up boiling down to be the same in all three games, or if TESO has about the same number of GW2 qualities as WoW, then I can conclude that the argument over whether it's a WoW clone or a GW2 clone is meaningless, because it would be both.
Originally posted by sidhaethe
This is really cool, and seems to coincide with what the GI article on TESO was explaining about a dynamic world.
Originally posted by sidhaethe
That helps a ton, thanks! So the GW2 is more based around exploring the world as opposed to WoW where the objective is to get max level and raid/pvp from then on.
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Joined: 12/22/06
Originally posted by jakojako
You got it :).
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Joined: 4/25/08
There is no pie.
This is pretty common misconception about combat. In GW2 you don't have to target anyone. You can fire your bow and it will shoot in front of you and hit anyone that happens to be there. Same with targeting: if you target someone and fire your bow you will fire bow towards that target, if something (or someone) is on the way of your arrow you will hit that object instead of your target. That is huge difference in how combat works and feels, not to mention it is lot more reactive and action oriented. WoW relies more on skill rotations and stuff like that which don't really exist in GW2.
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Joined: 8/08/11
Originally posted by vee41
absolutely as you say.
i was unsure about the combat before i played it, thinking by the videos it did appear to just be another wow style combat game with even fewer hotkeys. was pleasently surprised to find it really did feel new and uniqe. it is very fast paced.
and you can play it like WOW if you like though. You can stand there tabbing through targets and just using your skills on cooldown, but someone who uses the system to its fullest is really going to be a lot better than you if you do.
Novice Member
Joined: 11/10/07
OMGawd, I'm so sick of everyone comparing every other mmo to wow. Wow clone this wow clone that, especially when wow was a clone of EverQuest.
If everyone is so fixated on calling everything a wow clone, let me ask you this...
What would make an mmo NOT a wow (EverQuest) clone? While you're at it, make a list of mmo's you think aren't a clone of another game, not even specifically wow.
edit: directed toward OP...not trying to hijack thread.
Originally posted by romanator0
this is pretty much it.
WoW dumbed down its own mechanics so hard that peeps dont even need to talk to anybody anymore when they do things,close to single player experience.
now GW2 takes this to the max,theres no need for wowtools even anymore,everything is so protected and automated that single player experience is reached.
what happens in this product when server is empty?does it fill player spots with NPCs? so peeps can do massively multiplayer online role playing ?
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Joined: 4/25/08
There is no pie.
Originally posted by ForumPvP
How you define this 'single player experience'? You have other players around you and you work towards a common goal, seems multiplayer to me.
Is it lack of talking to each other? Lack of /say is actually a big minus, I recall devs saying though that it will be implemented.
Lack of grouping in events? Why you need some generic 'group' to make game multiplayer?
Novice Member
Joined: 2/22/06
Here are some major points of difrence between the two.
Dynamic events: no quests to pick up or turn in, its all in the world around you if you preticpate in an event you are rewarded.
Personal Story: RPG aspeict of the game with overarching main storyline, what you do in your personal story effects how npc's treet you in the game ( although your allways a Hero, its your story!)
World vs World vs World: pvp is just amazing sege wepons, keeps and Seaging the keeps! this type of seage warfare is very difrent then what is currently in wow this harkens back to Dark ages of cammalot.
Skill baised Combat(twitch): You cant just stand in one place mashing your skills over and over you have to dodge out of attacks watch what is around you and react accordingly. If you do stand in one place and spam skills you die, and you die fast!
You mentioned that you are limited to the skills you have, this is not correct you are limited to 10 skills on your bar first five are baised on what wepons you have equiped the sixth skill is a healing ability (everyone can heal themselves) and the last four are class skills which there are qite a few of for each class and can be changed out on the fly while not in combat.
For pvp when you enter the w vs w map you are bumped up to max lvl in order to be competitive in pvp, but you can also gain experince in w v w, there are dynamic events there, you can lvl up to max lvl without doing anything else but pvp.
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Joined: 3/16/11
As it pertains to comparisons with TESO, from the feature list that I had read of the game, here's the reasons why I find comparisons with GW2 and WoW apt, and what compares to which game:
Novice Member
Joined: 12/10/08
Originally posted by jakojako
Think of it more like this:
GW2's world continues on whether there are players there to see it or not. Most events trigger on their own, so town and fortresses will be attacked, overrun and lost, even if there isn't a single player in the zone at the time to see it. You might show up at a village one day to buy some rare materials or consumables, then come back next day, only to find the merchant gone or dead, his shop burned and his village in ashes because a centaur horde descended on it and wiped everyone out and no one (no PCs) stopped it.
If you want that vendor back, you'll have to clear the town out of the centaur invaders yourself through an event that anyone who wishes it, can participate in. When you've driven the horde out of the village, you can start rezing the townsfolk, who will in turn, start rezing each other. The next event in the chain might be to put out the fires in the town, gather wood from a nearby forest for rebuilding and actually doing the rebuilding yourself.
There might then be a few other events that can now start because the town is up and running again, which you would never have seen while it was in it's destroyed state. Once you've rebuilt it, other things can now take place, such as buying from the merchant you came there to see in the first place.
Eventually though, at some point, the centaurs will regroup and will raid the town again. That would constitute the start of the chain. If someone is there to stop it this time, the village will not progress to its destroyed state and you will never see the event to retake it and rebuild it, however, all the events that can only happen while the village is functional, will continue to be viable.
An example of what those could be might be an ox cart that gets sent from the village to a neighbouring town to trade. That event would revolve around escorting the cart safely through bandits, wildlife or those ever-present centaur raiders. And to see how events overlap and and chain off each other, that cart might be supplying metal ore that is mined locally around the first village. That ore, if it arrives safely at it's destination, will be used to forge weapons that the locals will now have access to, so they can better defend themselves. It also may make certain goods, available only at that location, purchasable by PCs from the local merchants.
Later, that ox cart may be sent back to the first town laden with supplies, which may include seeds that the first village can use to grow crops, that can then be used by the local baker to make a unique consumable that PCs can also buy.
However, it's important to know that either of those trips with the ox cart are going to happen, whether PCs are there to protect it or not. The way they would be presented is that a trader would lead the cart down to road at the front of the village and wait a few minutes before setting out. If you're in the area, you'll see a notification of the event in progress and approximately where it is happening. If you wander by the cart, the trader might wave at you and ask you verbally, if you would help guard the cart. Whether you do or not won't stop him from leaving though. The world goes on with or without your participation. However, without your intervention, he likely won't make it to his destination and you'll never see the consumables for sale that are dependent on that event's success. Your choice.
And all of that is dependent on the first town staying protected from the ongoing centaur raids. If the town is allowed to burn, the whole area suffers perpetually until players take an active hand and change it. And that's just one small event chain among hundreds in the world, spread all over. It affects one small region of a very big map, in a very large world. Some events can have a dozen or more links in them and they can change the face of entire zones, from one end to the other.
So when people say that DEs are just glorified quests, they have NO understanding of how they really work. The individual goals may seem familiar (repel the raiders, gather wood, protect the caravan), but the interdependency of events has a widespread and real impact on the world and on the player's game experience.
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Joined: 2/22/06
Originally posted by ForumPvP
The game makes you want to work with other players, there is no kill stealing or anything like that in GW2 unlike wow. This allows you to HELP other players around you kill things and the dynamic events scale to the number of people preticpating making the event still calanging. There is no need for groups because of how this system works you still work together to complte a task.


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If you think back, every version of Windows since XP has allowed you to disable the new theme. With XP it was the Luna theme that you could disable and have it look like win2k or even Win95 if you wished. With Vista and 7 it is Aero you can disable to have it look like Win2k or even Win95 still if you wish.
I'm quite positive Metro will be the same. It might be Metro or the old school Win95/Win2k look but even if those are the only two options I'd still be pleased, so long as the option is there for the traditional desktop, taskbar, and start menu. Themes and such can be downloaded later. Heck, this could actually turn out to be very positive for MS- if all they incorporate is Metro or Win2k/Win95 themes, then third part developers can come up with "prettier" themes leaving MS to focus more on the functionality of the OS. I'm okay with that. I used to love messing with downloadable themes and shells for XP back in the day. Would be fun to start tinkering with that again.
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YUMA, Ariz. -- When Arizona Western College President Glenn Mayle asked a room full of people, who among them had either taken a class from or graduated from either AWC or Northern Arizona University - Yuma, about half of those in attendance stood to their feet.
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What is necrotizing enterocolitis?
Necrotizing enterocolitis is
infection and
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See a picture of
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How is necrotizing enterocolitis diagnosed?
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36 year old man | Los Angeles, CA, USA | Seeking women 24-35 within 20 miles
Don't you even think of passing up on this. You could be my next future ex. I would make the best weekend dad to our children.
I don't drink and drive because I might spill my drink. I'm the kind of person who always finds a possitive lesson from any unfortunate experience. The most valuable word in my vocabulary is Respect. Love is not enough, there must be respect and trust in any of my relationships with people. Fact: I love puppies. Fact: I enjoy going to plays and sporting events. No, I don't enjoy long walks on the beach, who has time for that? My mother is the most influential person in my life. I have a very big heart and i wear it on my sleeve which can get a little messy. All I ask for in a woman is that she loves and respects herself. I'm ready for something serious but will never force or push it. Oh yeah, I got a question for all you Capitol One Girls. What's in YOUR wallet. You guys expect a certain level of income from your mate but won't disclose how much you earn? Hmmm... I'm selling shovels at a good price. Ladies. Please, please, please don't post a picture of your selves with your friends that are way hotter than you. I speak for all guys when I say we're more interested in your friend. I'm sorry, just keeping it real.
Book club , Coffee and conversation , Business networking , Cooking , Dining out , Gardening/Landscaping , Hobbies and crafts , Movies/Videos , Museums and art , Music and concerts , Nightclubs/Dancing , Performing arts , Shopping/Antiques , Travel/Sightseeing , Video games , Watching sports , Wine tasting
Basketball, Billiards / Pool, Bowling, Dancing, Football, Other types of exercise, Running, Soccer, Walking / Hiking, Weights / Machines, Yoga
I exercise 3-4 times per week.
I like Birds, Cats, Dogs, Fish, Horses
I enjoy going to a good restaurant no matter the ethnicity or coulture. If it's good I'm game. I love going to the movies. I also like to sit down in front of coffee shops and people watch while sipping on my latte. watching people facinates me.
I love Italian Food. My favorite color is actually the absense of color (black). Coffe Shops When Raining. I have a great sense of fashion, don't let that throw you off. I'm still a guy's guy. I love sports but will put that a side when need be.
I'm a couple hours into my Thirties so I am entering this new relm of serenity. And I like it. I am passionate. Ambitous. I'm a guy who has strong Values such as Respect, Loyalty, Honor, Integrity. I have a big heart and a quirky sence of humor.
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|What he is looking for
|6'2" (187cms)
|5'4" (162cms) to 5'11" (180cms)
|Body type:
|Athletic and toned
|Slender, About average, Curvy, Athletic and toned, A few extra pounds
|Blue, Brown, Green, Hazel
|Auburn / Red, Black, Light brown, Dark brown, Blonde, Dark blonde, Platinum
|No Way
|No preference
|Social Drinker
|No preference
|Self-Employed / Entrepreneur
|No preference
|I'll tell you later
|No preference
|Never Married
|No preference
|Have kids:
|No preference
|Wants kids:
|No preference
|Latino / Hispanic
|Asian, East Indian, Latino / Hispanic, Middle Eastern, Native American, White / Caucasian
|I'll tell you later
|No preference
|English, Spanish
|No preference
|Bachelors degree
|No preference


text:
There is an old saying: March comes in like a lion and goes out like a lamb. For sports fans, March 2011 has come in with the full fury of a lion. There is more March Madness than normal.
Last Friday, the National Football League Players Association and representatives of the National Football League owners broke off negotiations and started the machinery, which promises an interesting offseason. The players association is legally no more – it has decertified – while the owners have locked players out of training facilities and suspended football operations as the 2006 collective bargaining agreement expired.
The breakdown in negotiations and the subsequent actions by the owners and players is just another blow to sports fans in the month of March. The Maloof brothers, the owners of the National Basketball Association's Sacramento Kings, asked the NBA for an extension of the league's March 1 moving deadline until mid-April as the Maloofs attempt to work out an agreement with Anaheim officials to relocate to the Southern California city.
The Maloofs have apparently soured on Sacramento as an NBA city because they cannot get a taxpayer-funded arena that is loaded with high-revenue luxury boxes and club seats – the very type of seats that are beyond the price range of the average worker in Sacramento financially – and Orange County, California residents might be a better fit as they seem to be wealthier than the people in the California capital of Sacramento.
While the Maloofs continue to negotiate with Anaheim officials, Sacramento mayor and former NBA player Kevin Johnson is forging ahead with new arena plans with or without the Maloofs. The Maloof/Kings drama is playing out against an interesting backdrop. Sacramento officials are thinking of cutting school programs like sports and basketball because they don't have any money for anything but school basics.
Just in case fans haven't noticed, sports owners are social class segregationists. One owner of a team never hid from his belief that fans are on the low end of the totem pole in sports society and he wanted more well-heeled people in his building.
"Nothing comes from the fan," said the owner. "Support comes from the customers. Big difference. Fans scream on talk radio. Customers bring their kids, their families, their wives, their dates, their companies, their business partners. They have lives and don't talk to the radio talk show hosts."
Sports owners and athletes seem to not care all that much about fans. But fans seem to have very little problem being abused. All of those people who claimed in 1995 that they would never attend another baseball game after the Major League Baseball Players Association went on strike in August 1994 and the owners brought in replacement players or scabs in an effort to break the association in March 1995 seem to have broken their vow and have come back to the ballpark in record numbers in the 21st century.
The news from the New York Mets ownership has not been good for a good while as the Wilpon family has been battling with the trustee involved in the Bernard Madoff case. Irving Picard is looking to get victims money and is going after the Wilpons in an attempt to recover it. The Wilpons seem to be in financial trouble and that is not good news for Mets fans. Still Mets fans have not given up on either baseball or the team, they are hoping the Wilpons go down with the ship and a new owner will step in and bring the Mets back to contention.
In Glendale, Arizona, a conservative watchdog group has been causing havoc with Glendale's ability to sell municipal bonds with a lot of the bond money going to bail out the Phoenix Coyotes National Hockey League franchise so that the team will stay in the city-built arena. National Hockey League Commissioner Gary Bettman went after the Goldwater Institute in a news conference last week in Glendale. There are rumors floating around that Glendale would sue the Goldwater Institute for poisoning the well by bad mouthing the city's attempt to sell the municipal bonds.
The irony of the potential lawsuit is that it might cause a great deal of embarrassment for one of the Goldwater Institute's trustees, Randy Kendrick. Mrs. Kendrick's husband Ken is the Managing General Partner and one of the owners of Major League Baseball's Phoenix-based Arizona Diamondbacks, a franchise that plays in a stadium that was funded by taxpayers and a franchise that just moved into a new spring training facility that was also paid by Arizona taxpayers.
While Bettman was in Glendale, the league had other health problems crop up. Former NHL tough guy Bob Probert left his brain to be studied following his death last June. There was suspicion that Probert, who died of a heart attack at the age of 45, suffered from brain damage that might have been connected to hockey injuries. Researchers at Boston University's Center for the Study of Traumatic Encephalopathy confirmed Probert's fear that he suffered from a brain disease called chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE). Boston University is building up a brain bank of deceased athletes, mostly football players and university added a brain recently that of former NFL player Dave Duerson who killed himself on Feb. 17. The Boston University center is attempting to find a link between playing football and permanent head injuries – something that football officials and hired medical experts say is not true.
On Thursday, Montreal police began a criminal investigation into the on-ice hit by Boston's Zdeno Chara that left the Montreal Canadiens' Max Pacioretty with a severe concussion and cracked vertebra. Chara checked Pacioretty into something called a turnbuckle, which is a piece of glass that separates the team benches in the Montreal arena. The NHL didn't take any disciplinary action against Chara but Air Canada let Bettman know they are not happy with the violence in the league and threatened to end the airline's various league marketing partnerships and Bettman responded by saying the league could end an agreement to use Air Canada in chartering teams around Canada and the US. Another NHL Canadian sponsor, Via Rail also wants the league to clean up the violence.
Meanwhile, Quebec Premier Jean Charest criticized NHL violence and wants the league to address the issue. But fans are not all that concerned. They want Bettman fired for ruining their game and don't understand there is a business component that overrides the concern of the fans. But many fans had no problem with Chara's hit. Fans in Canada and in the United States, stoked by know-nothing sports writers when it comes to business concerns, want Bettman's out of office because he is in their minds incompetent and has ruined the game.
The sports fans and the Canadian hockey writers are failing to realize Bettman works for the owners and not for them. The fans blame Bettman for the NHL's massive Sun Belt expansion plan that dates back to 1990 -- three years before Bettman took over as NHL Commissioner – and that there were 26 teams in the league when Bettman walked into his office for the first time.
In the New York metropolitan area, the Giants and Jets gave their fans a pre-lockout present. A hike in ticket prices for the 2011 season -- a season that at the moment will not be played. Cablevision also has given Knicks and Rangers fans a present for 2011-12, a whopping 49 percent average price hike for Knicks tickets and 23 percent for Rangers ducats. Jim Dolan is renovating Madison Square Garden (again) and needs money for the sprucing up of the 43-year-old building that is not on the New York City tax roll.
Give Jim Dolan some credit.
Knicks tickets are high priced items. Courtside seats are $3,000 a piece. Dolan is doing what politicians refuse to do, raising "his" tax for seats on well-heeled people to close his budget gap. Dolan has far more courage than Scott Walker, Chris Christie, Andrew Cuomo, Michael Bloomberg and many politicians who will not ask high income earners to share in the sacrifice that lesser income earners are doing whether it is union givebacks and outright government layoffs or paying higher tolls on roads or higher fees to use parks and other government services which means the poorer people of American society are sacrificing far more than the people who have the ability to buy Jim Dolan's soon to be $3,600 courtside seats.
Dolan is forcing well-heeled customers and corporations who buy Knicks tickets to share in the sacrifice. Of course those people and the corporations that buy the high-ticket items get a tax write off of 50 percent. Someone else is paying for the entertainment-tax writeoff, perhaps the public at large for a few who are entertained at games?


text:
Press release from Business Wire
Hershey Announces Fourth Quarter and Full-Year 2012 Results; Updates Outlook for 2013
Thursday, January 31, 2013
Hershey Announces Fourth Quarter and Full-Year 2012 Results; Updates Outlook for 201307:00 EST Thursday, January 31, 2013 HERSHEY, Pa. (Business Wire) -- The Hershey Company (NYSE: HSY): Fourth quarter and full-year 2012 net sales increase 11.7% and 9.3%, respectivelyFourth quarter earnings per share-diluted of $0.66 as reported and $0.74 adjustedFull-year 2012 earnings per share-diluted of $2.89 as reported and $3.24 adjustedOutlook for 2013 net sales reaffirmed, earnings per share-diluted increased:Full-year net sales expected to increase 5-7%, driven primarily by volumeReported earnings per share-diluted expected to be $3.47 to $3.56Adjusted earnings per share-diluted expected to increase 10-12% and be in the $3.56 to $3.63 range, greater than the previous estimate of an 8-10% increase The Hershey Company (NYSE: HSY) today announced sales and earnings for the fourth quarter ended December 31, 2012. Consolidated net sales were $1,751,035,000 compared with $1,567,145,000 for the fourth quarter of 2011. Reported net income for the fourth quarter of 2012 was $149,879,000 or $0.66 per share-diluted, compared with $142,133,000 or $0.62 per share-diluted for the comparable period of 2011. "Hershey's fourth quarter financial and marketplace results represent a strong finish to 2012 and validate our strategy of focusing investments in the U.S. and key international geographies," said John P. Bilbrey, President and Chief Executive Officer, The Hershey Company. "As expected, fourth quarter marketplace performance was solid and we gained market share in every category – chocolate, non-chocolate, mint and gum. We had solid seasonal growth in 2012, with retail sell-through in measured channels in line with our estimates. Additionally, for the combined four seasons, and the important Halloween period, our market share gain was identical, 0.8 points. Our solid financial performance gave us flexibility in our approach to investments in global go-to-market capabilities that will benefit Hershey over the near and long-term. We'll build on our success in 2013 and are confident that our plans will drive core brand volume growth in U.S. and international markets." As described in the Note, for the fourth quarter of 2012, these results, prepared in accordance with U.S. generally accepted accounting principles (GAAP), included net pre-tax charges of $24.3 million or $0.08 per share-diluted. These charges included $7.9 million, or $0.03 per share-diluted, related to the Project Next Century program, non-service-related pension expense (NSRPE) of $7.6 million, or $0.02 per share-diluted, and acquisition and integration costs related to Brookside Foods Ltd. (Brookside) of $1.3 million. Additionally, the Company recorded a non-cash impairment charge of $7.5 million, or $0.03 per share-diluted, related to its 69 percent investment in Tri-US, Inc. of Boulder, Colorado, a company that manufactured nutritional beverages under the "mix1®" brand name. As a result, reported gross margin of 43.1 percent increased 280 basis points versus last year while reported income before interest and income taxes (EBIT) margin of 14.4 percent declined 20 basis points versus 2011. For the fourth quarter of 2011, results included pre-tax charges for Project Next Century and the Global Supply Chain Transformation Program of $27.7 million, or $0.08 per share-diluted, and $1.0 million of NSRPE. Adjusted net income, which excludes these net charges, was $169,186,000, or $0.74 per share-diluted, in the fourth quarter of 2012, compared with $160,325,000, or $0.70 per share-diluted, in the fourth quarter of 2011, an increase of 5.7 percent in adjusted earnings per share-diluted. For the full-year 2012, consolidated net sales were $6,644,252,000, compared with $6,080,788,000 in 2011, an increase of 9.3 percent. Reported net income for 2012 was $660,931,000, or $2.89 per share-diluted, compared with $628,962,000 or $2.74 per share-diluted, for 2011. As described in the Note, for the full-years 2012 and 2011, these results, prepared in accordance with GAAP, included net pre-tax charges of $117.7 million and $35.0 million, or $0.35 and $0.09 per share-diluted, respectively. Charges associated with the Project Next Century program for 2012 and 2011 were $76.3 million and $43.4 million, or $0.22 and $0.11 per share-diluted, respectively. NSRPE for 2012 and 2011 was $20.6 million and $2.8 million, or $0.06 and $0.01 per share-diluted, respectively. Additionally, 2012 results were impacted by acquisition and integration costs related to the Brookside acquisition of $13.4 million, or $0.04 per share-diluted and the aforementioned non-cash goodwill impairment charge of $7.5 million, or $0.03 per share-diluted. Net charges in 2011 also included a pre-tax gain on the sale of non-core trademark licensing rights of $17.0 million, or $0.05 per share-diluted and a $5.8 million, or $0.02 per share-diluted, charge related to the Global Supply Chain Transformation Program. As described in the Note, adjusted net income for each year, which excludes these net charges, was $740,040,000, or $3.24 per share-diluted in 2012, compared with $650,706,000, or $2.83 per share-diluted in 2011, an increase of 14.5 percent in adjusted earnings per share-diluted. In 2013, the Company expects reported earnings per share-diluted of $3.47 to $3.56. This projection, prepared in accordance with GAAP, assumes business realignment charges and NSRPE costs of $0.07 to $0.09 per share-diluted. Charges associated with the Project Next Century program are expected to be $0.03 to $0.05 per share-diluted while NSRPE is expected to be $0.04 per share-diluted. Despite the impact of these charges in 2013, reported gross margin is expected to increase 250 to 270 basis points. Fourth Quarter Performance Hershey's fourth quarter net sales increased 11.7 percent. As expected, organic core brand volume trends sequentially improved driven by the U.S. business. Specifically, volume, excluding the Brookside acquisition, was a 7.0 point benefit as everyday and seasonal product volume was more than double the contribution from new products. Net price realization and foreign currency exchange rates were a 2.3 point and 0.3 point benefit, respectively. For the fourth quarter and full year, the Brookside acquisition was a 2.1 point and 1.9 point benefit, respectively. Hershey's U.S. candy, mint and gum (CMG) retail takeaway for the 12 weeks and year ended December 29, 2012, in the expanded all outlet combined plus convenience store channels (xAOC+C-store), which accounts for approximately 90 percent of the Company's U.S. retail business, was up 7.0 percent and 5.7 percent, resulting in market share gains of 1.2 points and 0.6 points, respectively. U.S. CMG volume and unit trends at retail continued to progress in the fourth quarter and that is the expectation for 2013. Fourth quarter adjusted gross margin increased 140 basis points driven by net price realization and supply chain productivity and cost savings initiatives, partially offset by higher input costs. Selling, marketing and administrative (SM&A) expenses, excluding advertising, increased about 19 percent in the fourth quarter, slightly greater than initial estimates, driven by planned investments in global go-to-market capabilities, selling and marketing costs and other employee-related expenses. As a result, adjusted EBIT increased 7.4 percent generating adjusted EBIT margin of 15.8 percent, a 60 basis point decline versus last year. For the fourth quarter and full year, advertising increased 27 percent and 16 percent, respectively, supporting new product launches as well as core U.S. and international brands. Outlook The Company expects 2013 net sales growth of 5 to 7 percent, including the impact of foreign currency exchange rates.Net sales will be driven primarily by core brand volume growth, the U.S. launch of the Brookside product line in the food, drug and mass channels, as well as innovation such as Kit Kat mini's, Twizzlers Bites, Jolly Rancher Bites and yet to be announced products. In key international markets such as China, the Company will extend the portfolio with the introduction of Hershey's Kisses Deluxe and build on the fourth quarter launch of Hershey's solid chocolate products in instant consumable and take home pack types. In Brazil, new capacity was installed to support geographic expansion of Hershey's Mais chocolate. As stated in October, gross margin is expected to increase in 2013, driven by productivity, cost savings initiatives and overall input cost deflation. Therefore, the Company expects 2013 adjusted gross margin expansion of 180 to 200 basis points. Given this financial flexibility, in 2013 the Company will accelerate some SM&A investments. Advertising is expected to increase approximately 20 percent versus last year resulting in an advertising-to-sales ratio of about 8 percent. Advertising spending on core U.S. brands is expected to be about in line with last year's increase. Incremental advertising in 2013 will support the Brookside launch and innovation in both the U.S. and international markets, including a broader advertising campaign of the Hershey's brand in China. SM&A expenses, excluding advertising, are expected to increase at a rate greater than net sales. These investments will build on the go-to-market capabilities established over the last few years, as well as the consumer insights work underway in key international markets for the five global brands - Hershey's, Reese's, Hershey's Kisses, Jolly Rancher and Ice Breakers – that the Company believes can transcend borders around the world. Additionally, the Company will continue to support its Insights Driven Performance initiative, invest in international selling and marketing functions and support new products with increased levels of consumer promotion and sampling to drive trial and repeat. As a result, the Company anticipates adjusted earnings per share-diluted growth for the full year to bein the 10 to 12 percent range. This is greater than the previous estimate of an 8 to 10 percent increase. "Hershey had a solid 2012 and we expect to build on our success in 2013," continued Bilbrey. "In 2012 we opened one of the most technologically advanced chocolate manufacturing facilities in our hometown of Hershey, Pa, initiated and completed construction of a new innovation center in Shanghai, successfully integrated the Brookside business and increased market share in key geographies as well as across all channels in our U.S. business. While the macroeconomic environment remains challenging, we are well positioned to succeed in the marketplace and deliver on our commitments in 2013," Bilbrey concluded. Note: In this release, Hershey references income measures that are not in accordance with U.S. generally accepted accounting principles (GAAP) because they exclude business realignment and impairment charges, business acquisition closing and integration costs, certain gains and losses, and non-service-related pension costs. These non-GAAP financial measures are used in evaluating results of operations for internal purposes. These non-GAAP measures are not intended to replace the presentation of financial results in accordance with GAAP. Rather, the Company believes exclusion of such items provides additional information to investors to facilitate the comparison of past and present operations. A reconciliation is provided below of earnings per share-diluted in accordance with GAAP as presented in the Consolidated Statements of Income to non-GAAP financial measures, which exclude business realignment and impairment charges as well as non-service-related pension expense in 2012 and 2011, closing and integration costs primarily related to the Brookside acquisition in 2012 and a gain on the sale of trademark licensing rights recorded in the third quarter of 2011. Fourth Quarter Ended December 31, 2012 December 31, 2011 Percent Percentof Netof NetIn thousands except per share amountsDollars SalesDollars Sales Gross Profit/Gross Margin $ 755,208 43.1 % $ 631,206 40.3 % GSCT charges included in cost of sales — 5,816 Project Next Century (credits)/charges included in cost of sales (1,658 ) 15,934 NSRPE included in cost of sales 1,680 — Acquisition (credits) included in cost of sales (57 ) — Adjusted non-GAAP Gross Profit/Gross Margin $ 755,173 43.1 % $ 652,956 41.7 % EBIT/EBIT Margin $ 252,617 14.4 % $ 229,009 14.6 % (Credits)/charges included in cost of sales (35 ) 21,750 Project Next Century charges included in SM&A 308 941 NSRPE included in SM&A 5,873 993 Acquisition costs included in SM&A 1,400 — Business Realignment & Impairment charges, net 16,734 5,041 Adjusted non-GAAP EBIT/EBIT Margin $ 276,897 15.8 % $ 257,734 16.4 % Net Income/Net Margin $ 149,879 8.6 % $ 142,133 9.1 % (Credits)/charges included in cost of sales (35 ) 21,750 Charges included in SM&A 7,581 1,934 Business Realignment & Impairment charges, net 16,734 5,041 Tax impact of net charges/(credits) (4,973 ) (10,533 ) Adjusted non-GAAP Net Income/Net Margin $ 169,186 9.7 % $ 160,325 10.2 % EPS - Diluted $ 0.66 $ 0.62 Charges included in cost of sales — 0.06 Charges included in SM&A 0.02 — Business Realignment & Impairment charges, net 0.06 0.02 Adjusted non-GAAP EPS - Diluted $ 0.74 $ 0.70 Twelve Months EndedDecember 31, 2012 December 31, 2011 Percent Percentof Netof NetIn thousands except per share amountsDollars SalesDollars Sales Gross Profit/Gross Margin $ 2,859,882 43.0 % $ 2,531,892 41.6 % GSCT charges included in cost of sales — 5,816 Project Next Century charges included in cost of sales 36,383 39,280 NSRPE included in cost of sales 8,607 — Acquisition costs included in cost of sales 4,080 — Adjusted non-GAAP Gross Profit/Gross Margin $ 2,908,952 43.8 % $ 2,576,988 42.4 % EBIT/EBIT Margin $ 1,111,148 16.7 % $ 1,055,028 17.4 % Charges included in cost of sales 49,070 45,096 Project Next Century charges included in SM&A 2,446 4,961 NSRPE included in SM&A 11,965 2,849 Gain on sale of trademark rights included in SM&A — (17,034 ) Acquisition costs included in SM&A 9,294 — Business Realignment & Impairment charges/(credits), net 44,938 (886 ) Adjusted non-GAAP EBIT/EBIT Margin $ 1,228,861 18.5 % $ 1,090,014 17.9 % Net Income/Net Margin $ 660,931 9.9 % $ 628,962 10.3 % Charges included in cost of sales 49,070 45,096 Charges/(credits) included in SM&A 23,705 (9,224 ) Business Realignment & Impairment charges/(credits), net 44,938 (886 ) Tax impact of net charges/(credits) (38,604 ) (13,242 ) Adjusted non-GAAP Net Income/Net Margin $ 740,040 11.1 % $ 650,706 10.7 % EPS - Diluted $ 2.89 $ 2.74 Charges included in cost of sales 0.14 0.12 Charges/(credits) included in SM&A 0.07 (0.03 ) Business Realignment & Impairment charges, net 0.14 — Adjusted non-GAAP EPS - Diluted $ 3.24 $ 2.83 In 2011, the Company recorded GAAP charges of $43.4 million, or $0.11 per share-diluted, attributable to Project Next Century and $5.8 million, or $0.02 per share-diluted, related to the Global Supply Chain Transformation (GSCT) program and $2.8 million, or $0.01 per share-diluted, of non-service-related pension expense (NSRPE). Additionally, in the third quarter of 2011, the Company recorded a pre-tax gain on the sale of certain trademark licensing rights of $17.0 million, or $0.05 per share-diluted. In 2012, the Company recorded GAAP charges of $76.3 million, or $0.22 per share-diluted, attributable to the Project Next Century program and $20.6 million, or $0.06 per share-diluted, of NSRPE. Additionally, 2012 results were impacted by acquisition and integration costs related to the Brookside acquisition of $13.4 million, or $0.04 per share-diluted and the aforementioned non-cash goodwill impairment of $7.5 million, or $0.03 per share-diluted. In 2013 the Company expects to record total GAAP charges of about $10 million to $15 million, or $0.03 to $0.05 per share-diluted, attributable to Project Next Century and $13.2 million, or $0.04 per share-diluted, of non-service related pension expenses (NSRPE). Below is a reconciliation of earnings per share-diluted in accordance with GAAP to non-GAAP adjusted earnings per share-diluted: 201320112012(Projected) Reported EPS - Diluted $2.74 $2.89 $3.47 - $3.56 Acquisition closing & integration charges — 0.04 — Gain on sale of trademark licensing rights (0.05) — — Total Business Realignment and Impairment Charges 0.13 0.25 0.03 - 0.05 NSRPE 0.01 0.06 0.04 Adjusted EPS – Diluted $2.83 $3.24 $3.56 - $3.63 Appendix IThe Hershey CompanyProject Next CenturyExpected Timing of Costs and Savings ($m) 20132014 Realignment Charges: Cash $10 to $15 ~ $5 Non-Cash - - - - Project Management and Start-up Costs - - - - Total Project Next Century Realignment Charges & Costs $10 to $15 ~ $5 Project Next Century Cap-Ex $15 to $20 - - Project Next Century projected savings: Annual $25 to $30 $5 to $10 Cumulative $60 to $70 $65 to $80 Safe Harbor Statement This release contains statements that are forward-looking. These statements are made based upon current expectations that are subject to risk and uncertainty. Because actual results may differ materially from those contained in the forward-looking statements, you should not place undue reliance on the forward-looking statements when deciding whether to buy, sell or hold the Company's securities. Factors that could cause results to differ materially include, but are not limited to: issues or concerns related to the quality and safety of our products, ingredients or packaging; changes in raw material and other costs; selling price increases, including volume declines associated with pricing elasticity; market demand for our new and existing products; increased marketplace competition; disruption to our supply chain; failure to successfully identify, execute and integrate acquisitions, divestitures and joint ventures; changes in governmental laws and regulations, including taxes; political, economic, and/or financial market conditions; risks and uncertainties related to our international operations and related growth targets; disruptions, failures or security breaches of our information technology infrastructure; the impact of future developments related to the investigation by government regulators of alleged pricing practices by members of the confectionery industry, including risks from current or subsequent litigation or further government action; pension cost factors, such as actuarial assumptions, market performance and employee retirement decisions and funding requirements; our ability to achieve ongoing annual savings from supply chain realignment initiatives; and such other matters as discussed in our Annual Report on Form 10-K for 2011. All information in this press release is as of January 31, 2013. The Company undertakes no duty to update any forward-looking statement to conform the statement to actual results or changes in the Company's expectations. Live Web Cast As previously announced, the Company will hold a conference call with analysts today at 8:30 a.m. Eastern Time. The conference call will be web cast live via Hershey's corporate website www.thehersheycompany.com. Please go to the Investor Relations section of the website for further details. The Hershey CompanySummary of Consolidated Statements of Incomefor the periods ended December 31, 2012 and December 31, 2011(in thousands except per share amounts) Fourth QuarterTwelve Months2012201120122011 Net Sales $ 1,751,035 $ 1,567,145 $ 6,644,252 $ 6,080,788 Costs and Expenses: Cost of Sales 995,827 935,939 3,784,370 3,548,896 Selling, Marketing and Administrative 485,857 397,156 1,703,796 1,477,750 Business Realignment and Impairment Charges/(Credits), net 16,734 5,041 44,938 (886 ) Total Costs and Expenses 1,498,418 1,338,136 5,533,104 5,025,760 Income Before Interest and Income Taxes (EBIT) 252,617 229,009 1,111,148 1,055,028 Interest Expense, net 22,666 21,314 95,569 92,183 Income Before Income Taxes 229,951 207,695 1,015,579 962,845 Provision for Income Taxes 80,072 65,562 354,648 333,883 Net Income $ 149,879 $ 142,133 $ 660,931 $ 628,962 Net Income Per Share - Basic - Common $ 0.69 $ 0.65 $ 3.01 $ 2.85 - Basic - Class B $ 0.62 $ 0.59 $ 2.73 $ 2.58 - Diluted - Common $ 0.66 $ 0.62 $ 2.89 $ 2.74 Shares Outstanding - Basic - Common 163,349 165,023 164,406 165,929 - Basic - Class B 60,630 60,632 60,630 60,645 - Diluted - Common 227,264 229,117 228,337 229,919 Key Margins: Gross Margin 43.1 % 40.3 % 43.0 % 41.6 % EBIT Margin 14.4 % 14.6 % 16.7 % 17.4 % Net Margin 8.6 % 9.1 % 9.9 % 10.3 % The Hershey CompanyConsolidated Balance Sheetsas of December 31, 2012 and December 31, 2011(in thousands of dollars)Assets 2012 2011 Cash and Cash Equivalents $ 728,272 $ 693,686 Accounts Receivable - Trade (Net) 461,383 399,499 Deferred Income Taxes 122,224 136,861 Inventories 633,262 648,953 Prepaid Expenses and Other 168,344 167,559 Total Current Assets 2,113,485 2,046,558 Net Plant and Property 1,674,071 1,559,717 Goodwill 588,003 516,745 Other Intangibles 214,713 111,913 Deferred Income Taxes 12,448 33,439 Other Assets 152,119 138,722 Total Assets $ 4,754,839 $ 4,407,094 Liabilities and Stockholders' Equity Loans Payable $ 375,898 $ 139,673 Accounts Payable 441,977 420,017 Accrued Liabilities 650,906 612,186 Taxes Payable 2,329 1,899 Total Current Liabilities 1,471,110 1,173,775 Long-Term Debt 1,530,967 1,748,500 Other Long-Term Liabilities 668,732 603,876 Deferred Income Taxes 35,657 — Total Liabilities 3,706,466 3,526,151 Total Stockholders' Equity 1,048,373 880,943 Total Liabilities and Stockholders' Equity $ 4,754,839 $ 4,407,094 The Hershey CompanyFINANCIAL CONTACT:Mark Pogharian, 717-534-7556orMEDIA CONTACT:Jeff Beckman, 717-534-8090


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Valley Springs, another Durham course, is going to stand in for Cornwallis this week. I've not played there but it is a very well maintained course with 3 sets of tees so it should be fun for all. It is roughly 5 miles north of Cornwallis.
http://www.raleighdis... Directions: From 85 North exit on to the Guess Rd. exit. Take a Left on Guess Rd. Go to the 4th stop light and turn Left on Rose of Sharon Rd. Next take a Right on Valley Springs Rd. The park entrance is on the left . Drive to the back of the parking lot. Hole One is down the path to the right of the concession/bathroom building. scorecard if you'd like one:
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Senior (2011)Set a career-high all-around score against SEMO at the fifth annual Beauty and the Beast meet, and set a career-high on bars as well...Placed third on the all-around at the Cancun Classic...Matched her season-high on floor against Iowa State...Topped her career-high on beam against Nebraska and hit a season-high on both vault and floor at the meet...Matched her career-high all-around score against Illinois...Took the vault title against Souther Utah...Set a new career-high on beam at Senior Night and also took the vault title...Named to teh Academic All-Big 12 second team...Placed second on vault at the Big 12 Championship and set a new career-high floor score...Tied for fifth on vault at NCAA Regionals
Junior (2010):Continually counted on as one of Missouri's top vaulters ... Posted a 9.700 on vault and floor against Ohio State ... Competing as a member of the beam lineup for the first season of her career ... Earned a 9.775 on beam in just her second week in the lineup, which tied her for the third best score at the Lady Luck Invitational ... Notched the highest score for the Tigers on vault (9.850) at Lady Luck ... Contributed nicely against Iowa State with scores of 9.750 or higher on vault, beam and floor ... Tied for second on vault at Nebraska with a 9.825 ... Tied her career high on floor (9.850) against New Hampshire to finish third on the event ... Won her first individual title of the season (second of career) on vault at Centenary by tying her season-high 9.850... Also tied her career high on beam with a 9.775 at Centenary ... Matched her season high on vault of 9.850 at Illinois and against Centenary in March ... Set a new season high on vault (9.875) at the Big 12 Championship while tying her career high on beam (9.775) ... Set a new season high on vault for the second meet in a row with a 9.900 at regionals to finish tied for second on the event ... Ranks ninth in the Big 12 on vault and ranked as high as 43rd nationally on the event at one point this season (GymInfo) ... Named to the Academic All-Big 12 First Team.
Sophomore (2009):Counted on as one of the Tiger's top vaulters and the lead-off gymnast on floor ... Notched a season and career high of 9.925 on the vault at Oklahoma ... Recorded a season high of 9.825 on floor at the Eagle Invitational ... Hit 9.800 or better on vault and 9.700 or better on floor in nine of 11 meets ... Finished the season ranked 65th nationally on vault with an RQS of 9.845, and seventh in the Big 12 ... Named to the 2009 Academic All-Big 12 Second Team ... Recognized as a member of the Big 12 Commissioner's Honor Roll.
Freshman (2008):One of the top vaulters on the Missouri roster as a freshman ... Tallied a 9.850 on vault at Bowling Green ... Posted a 9.750 or higher on vault in eight of the Tigers' 12 meets ... Also contributed big scores on floor notching a 9.850 and 9.825 in the two meets prior to Oklahoma ... Posted a 9.725 versus OU.
Prep:Trained at Metroplex under the direction of Larry McDonough ... Qualified for the Junior Olympics in 2001, 2002 and 2006 ... Was Texas State Level 10 Champion on vault and second in the all-around in 2005 and third in the all around in 2007 ... Choose Mizzou over Kentucky and Utah State.
Personal:Daughter of Nathan and Sharon Gold ... Born Sept. 19, 1988 ... Member of the National Honor Society at Plano High School ... Majoring in nursing.
Career Highs
Vault: 9.925 (Oklahoma 2009)
Bars: 9.725 (Beauty and the Beast 2011)
Beam: 9.825 (Quad Meet 2011)
Floor: 9.850 (Centenary 2008, New Hampshire 2010)
All-Around: 39.050 (Big 12 Championship)
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Hi. We're pregnant for the 6th time (3 prior miscarriages) and at yet another hospital (Army family) and the policy at this place for "older" women besides the normal care at the hospital, is to send them to a high-risk pregnancy specialist 90 minutes away for the triple screen test, an ultrasound, and other testing. We've ALWAYS been high-risk, as at our first pregnancy, I was 37. But we've never had to see a specialist - like I said, this is this hospital's policy. I'm not a huge fan of tons of testing - I've always turned most of them down - and I'm also not a fan of having to drive 3 hours to see someone. Plus, DH is so busy at work, he rarely has time to watch the kids, so there's that too. I'm going to try to call the CNM at the hospital with whom my next appointment is (the last was with an OB & he's the one who set up all this stuff) but I wanted to get the opinion of the mother-at-large. Are we lousy parents if we tell these people, "Thanks, but no thanks."? I haven't done any research on the tests in years, so I can't remember how reliable they are. Thanks!
The tests are pretty reliable, but can give you a false positive about 5% of the time, if I remember right. They can re-test later to ease your mind if you are concerned. I wouldn't necessarily balk at the ultrasound tests, but I would definitely turn down an amnio unless you absolutely wanted one just because there is added risk there.
We have a lot in common. We are a military family (just got out actually, after 9 years in) and I've been to many-a-hospital myself. Bonus with traveling to go get the tests is you and hubby will get travel pay. You can even eat out on the government's dime. ;) Another thing we have in common... it is my 6th pregnancy, and I've had 3 losses. (((HUGS))) - I know how hard it is to go through that.
That said, if you don't want to get the tests, it is fine! It is up to you what you want for your pregnancy. Our doctor suggested we get the test too since I am in my thirties, and I told him I would have to think about it. I already have one child with special needs (not something that is visible in the womb, or genetic), so it would be really helpful to know if we have another one coming with special needs. That said, even our doctor said that the most common reason people get the test (that he's seen personally) is to know if there is a life threatening problem to the baby, and to make a decision to terminate or not if it is something fatal. The chances of that are very very slim, so he did tell us that it is up to us what we want to do. I still haven't decided if we are getting the test, but am leaning toward taking them just for some added peace of mind (and hey - we get to see the baby again on ultrasound!)
Hmmm, I should ask them about per diem. But if I can't get anyone to watch the kids, it's moot. :)
We wouldn't get the amnio and the ultrasound there (rather than at the hospital on-post) is because they're "more experienced at reading high-risk ultrasounds". I'm not really worried about the folks on post being able to read and interpret things. I should just ask the midwife why they can't do the triple screen on post.
Thanks for your help!
Don't forget that only hospital staff are governed by hospital policy. They have to offer it and even recommend it but you are under no obligation to say yes unless you want to.
Mother of two spectacular girls, born mid-2010 and late 2012
Would you do an amnio if the results show you have a higher risk of a chromosomal problem? If not there really isn't much point in doing the testing, it only gives you a risk factor not a diagnosis...
Me (42) DH (43), Catholic Mom to DD (11), DS (6), DS (1)
Expecting #4 in May 2014
I agree with what several have said - there is nothing wrong with not doing the test. The real question is - What would you do with the results? Would you get further testing if you were shown to be at high risk? If not, would you make any different choices about your delivery, or planning for the baby, than you are now? Would you worry a lot about the possibilities? If you did get further testing, would the results of that affect your decision to carry the baby, or affect your decisions about delivery? Would you prepare differently to bring a special-needs child into your family?
If you aren't planning on doing anything different if the results are 'bad', I wouldn't bother with it. I turned down the screening because the results wouldn't change anything for me - I would just worry more. I wouldn't have consented to an amnio, so there wouldn't have been any definitive conclusion, either. This is also my first pregnancy, so I wanted to spend as little of it worrying as possible, and if there's a problem, well, we'll deal with it when the baby comes. dh and I felt good about making that decision for our family. Other people would want more time to prepare themselves and look in to resources, etc. But again, whether or not you have the screening done in no way changes the outcome for your baby - either they have a chromosomal abnormality already, or they don't. There's nothing negligent in not finding out. (And you would only be finding out the odds, anyway.)
Monkey (31) + Pirate (28) = a forever family (5/10) - Baby Bird (8/12), our long-awaited first, one (9/13 @ 7w 6d), and Baby Yummy (10/6/14)
Ah, I didn't realize amnio was the follow-up test. Your responses caused me to do some more research. I don't want an amnio and we're not going to terminate. I called & cancelled the tests. Also, the OB clinic at the hospital on-post called in response to my email to the midwife. They said, "You certainly do NOT have to do any of the testing." Nice to know they're so supportive! Thanks for the advice, everyone!
I got pregnant at 44 and gave birth 10 days before my 45th birthday. I declined all tests because of false positives and then the necessity to follow the first trimester tests with an amnio that carries its own risk. I got the 20 week ultrasound which is fairly reliable but can miss some abnormalities. If you dont intend to terminate, then you can find out later if there are problems. The first trimester tests are there so that people can legally terminate.
No, that is not the only reason. Ultrasound misses many issues. The reason that people have amnios is because they can't just detect everything based on ultrasound alone, and unless you want to do an amnio on every pregnant woman, the screens are a good way to rule out women who probably don't need one. (And I'm saying this as a person who does not do any of the "screens" so I'm not a test pusher. What you're saying just isn't accurate.) There are some conditions that make a vaginal birth much more risky for the baby, and those will not always be detected by ultrasound, no matter how good your OB, MFM, or U/S tech (depending on who does the u/s) is. The first trimester test is done because it's more accurate than the triple and quad screens (2nd trimester tests), and gives people time to decide whether to pursue further testing and to take appropriate action for whatever lies ahead, which may or may not include terminating. My cousin, who would NEVER terminate, did all the usual testing during her second pregnancy, and was really glad she did, because her baby had some pretty gnarly issues that necessitated a cesarean delivery. They had plenty of time to prepare, and a u/s might have missed those issues. Regardless, what the OP is being offered is the triple screen, which is done in the 2nd trimester.
No, that is not the only reason. Ultrasound misses many issues. The reason that people have amnios is because they can't just detect everything based on ultrasound alone, and unless you want to do an amnio on every pregnant woman, the screens are a good way to rule out women who probably don't need one. (And I'm saying this as a person who does not do any of the "screens" so I'm not a test pusher. What you're saying just isn't accurate.) There are some conditions that make a vaginal birth much more risky for the baby, and those will not always be detected by ultrasound, no matter how good your OB, MFM, or U/S tech (depending on who does the u/s) is. The first trimester test is done because it's more accurate than the triple and quad screens (2nd trimester tests), and gives people time to decide whether to pursue further testing and to take appropriate action for whatever lies ahead, which may or may not include terminating. My cousin, who would NEVER terminate, did all the usual testing during her second pregnancy, and was really glad she did, because her baby had some pretty gnarly issues that necessitated a cesarean delivery. They had plenty of time to prepare, and a u/s might have missed those issues. Regardless, what the OP is being offered is the triple screen, which is done in the 2nd trimester.
I am old and my DH is old we did and do CVS because it is much more reliable. Some people choose to do because they want to terminate. Some people chose to do it because they want information. It is offensive to suggest that people who choose first semester screening are doing it so they can terminate.
Information is power. Lack of information can be damaging or dealy. A dear friend of ours (42) had her fourth homebirth last year. No ultrasounds. No screening. Baby had trisonomy-related heard defects that resulted in brain damage. A hospital delivery with a NICU unit could have avoided the brain damage. I support women who choose note to have screenings but the fact remains...that brain damage was AVOIDABLE. Her midwife no longer delivers babies without an ultrasound.
interesting read. I'm 43 and 8 weeks pregnant with my 3rd child. It's so hard to find info from moms in their forties here. My first OB appt isn't for another week and I've already been wondering which screening tests he will recommend and which I would want to do. This includes some serious discussion with my partner about what we'd do if we did find a serious problem in any of the screening tests.
I was in my early thirties with my first 2 kids so while some tests were offered, they were not pushed. We didn't do anything except the ultrasound. Now I have to decide if I'd want to do any of the other screening tests.
edited to add - I'm very perturbed by the thought that I might be tossed into some high risk category just because of my age. I'm trying not to be irritated before I even see an OB. I chose an OB who I think would be least likely to do that, based on a doula's recommendations.
leafylady, congratulations on your pregnancy!
They will offer every test, and yes, you are considered high risk once you hit age 35. Over 40, you are considered even higher risk.(they wanted to test my heart, and do a glucose tolerance test at 6 weeks pregnant, ive never had diabetes and am very fit. I declined both tests) I didnt opt for first trimester tests, because i think the 20 week ultrasound is a reliable test and doesnt give false positives. It can miss some things though. If you were someone who would terminate a pregnancy because of abnormalities, then the 20 week ultrasound would be too late, but not too late to change plans for the birth taking risks into consideration as in the abovementioned case. That is what i meant by the first trimester tests primarily meant for those who wish to terminate. However, just because you choose those tests, doesnt say anything about your motives. Personally, i wouldnt do the tests because the 20 week ultrasound is easier. Why bother with a plethora of tests, especially in the first trimester which is stressful enough for those in our age group, since the highest risk of all is miscarriage. I would never do the amniocentesis because it can cause a miscarriage, i would never do a test that had even a 5% false positive rate. MY understanding is that age is taken into consideration in their calculation so false positives are most likely higher than 5% the older you are.
Personally, i didnt have the time to bother with tests that werent in the developing baby's best interest. I did look carefully into the impact that a diganosis of trimsomy 18 or down syndrome would have on my birth plans. I had a homebirth with thankfully with no complications. My 20 week ultrasound came up normal.
Thanks for the support and encouragement contactmaya! I'm not telling anyone around home until I'm past the 12 week zone, so it's great to get the support on the forums.
I'd never considered that they might want to do heart tests or that the gest. diabetes tests might start earlier. I'm mainly thinking about whether I'd do the afp test and/or amnio, which as you say, really depends on what I'd do with that information. This is my 3rd child, but a first time dad experience for my partner, so I feel like he really needs to hear all of the input from the OB before we make any final decisions on testing.
I had gestational diabetes with my first two pregnancies but it was easily managed through diet. I'm not overweight and I'm reasonably fit. With my 2nd pregnancy I refused the 3 hour glucola test and went straight to the diet. This time I intend to refuse the glucola tests all together. I know how my body reacts to glucola and I'm sure I'll test positive for it again. I have "inherited" a blood sugar testing machine and will be happy to work with them on managing diet, carbs and blood sugar.
I turned 44 6 weeks after DS was born, so was definitely AMA. My OB didn't once mention high risk, though, despite the fact that I was definitely high risk with my previous pregnancy (early bleeding, preterm labor, large fibroids, gestational diabetes, and polyhydramnios) He did do the GD test early, but it was because I had it in my previous pregnancy. I did not in this one, though (nor any of the other complications. woohoo!).
I do all the non-invasive screening. It doesn't give you any definitive, but I do think that a really good ultrasound tech can tell you quite a bit, even at 13 weeks. If nothing else, it was a huge sigh of relief for me. Also, since I had so many complications with the pregnancy I had when I was 41 (DD, now 3 1/2) I got to see her in ultrasounds all the time, but we only got 2 of DS, since that pregnancy was a (relatively speaking) walk in the park. If there had been any red flags at the first trimester screening, it would have just been that, and we would have made the decision from there on an amnio or CVS. . As much as I welcomed the pregnancy,and don't think there's any reason I would terminate, the fear i had was in leaving DD to care for elderly parent(s) AND a sibling with profound needs.
Congrats on your pregnancy!
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The Guitar Guide is a central location to find all sorts of great information for the beginning guitarist.
To learn more about the guitar itself, check out the "Getting to Know Your Guitar" section. This is where you can learn how to hold the guitar and position your hands, what the parts of the guitar are called, how to get your guitar in tune, and how to find notes on the guitar fretboard.
For information on how to read guitar notation, such as guitar tablature and chord and scale diagrams, check out the "Reading Music" section.
For basic guitar chord shapes and guitar scales, take a look through the "Chords" and "Scales" sections.
We hope this will be a good resource for you as you are just starting to play guitar.
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Exhibition provides variety of mediums, gift ideas
CORPUS CHRISTI - "Return Engagement" is the current exhibition at Wilhelmi-Holland Gallery. On view through Thursday, the presentation features numerous local and regional artists. With a range of media and meanings, visitors can find special gifts that last a lifetime.
With the unveiling of William "Bill" Wilhelmi's famed annual holiday ornament, Nutcracker at the Coliseum, visitors will find an artful addition to festive decorations. Featuring Wilhelmi's trademarked "monster," the hanging soldier includes a souvenir brick carved from an actual brick from our former Memorial Coliseum. This is the 32nd year Wilhelmi has created an ornament and this year the edition — total number of works made — is 275.
"The Nutcracker wears a military uniform as the Coliseum was a WWII memorial to fallen soldiers. The 'T' on his hat pays tribute to the memory of Tinker Randolph, our longtime friend and associate. The bison charm refers to 'Bill Bison' — Wilhelmi's name at summer Yoga Camp in Montana," said gallery director Ben Holland.
In addition to Wilhelmi's ornament, Cornelia and Ed Gates of Aloe Tile also make an annual work for a tree or another suitable location. Their offering is a holiday tree with a shining star. The Gates' use their carefully selected color palette to create consistency among their numerous public and private works.
Both ornaments are available for purchase.
Viewers looking for a work of art with a larger physical appearance, will find a variety of medium, meanings and sizes. Former art teacher and artist Lynda Jones presents small pieces featuring sea glass found along the bay as well as a hand-constructed table with iron and copper. Texas A&M University-Corpus Christi galleries director and artist Joe Pena paints small but powerful portraits referencing master artists including Rembrandt.
Art professors Greg Reuter and Ken Rosier construct works from clay. Reuter presents petite works taking the form of our best four-legged friends. These two sculptures of dogs are mindfully abstracted through their slightly angular forms and rich, metallic colors. Rosier also uses angular forms and metallic colors to share useful, utilitarian cups.
Additionally, Molly Merkle presents work using clay. Merkle carves into bricks or thick tiles of clay constructing a graceful, intricate pattern and design.
Local residents and artists Sheila Rogers and Deborah Males individually yet simultaneously find beauty in our South Texas landscape and reinterpret these sites into sights for observation and reflection. Rogers captures beautiful colors and compositions found in older, rustic homes and buildings. Males finds inspiration among the natural waters, mountains, and plants that nourish our earth as well as our eyes.
While most works of art on view are for sale — except for the ones in the Wilhelmi Collection — Ben Holland and Bill Wilhelmi encourage everyone to return to experience the reflections of local artists.
After all, the best things in life, like spending time with family and friends as well as varied works of art, should be seen as a return engagement.
If you go
What: "Return Engagement" featuring local, regional artists in a variety of mediums
When: Through Thursday
Where: Wilhelmi-Holland Gallery, 300 S. Chaparral St.
Cost: Free; works of art will be for sale
Information: 882-3523
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1880 P$1 Goloid Metric Dollar, Judd-1656, Pollock-1856, High R.7, PR65 Cameo NGC. CAC....
2013 April 24 - 28 CSNS US Coin Signature Auction - Chicago #1184
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Renaissance Schaumburg Convention Center Hotel
1551 North Thoreau Drive
Schaumburg, IL 60173
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1880 Goloid Metric Dollar in Aluminum1880 P$1 Goloid Metric Dollar, Judd-1656, Pollock-1856, High R.7, PR65 Cameo NGC. CAC.
Judd-1656, PR65 Cameo
Judd-1656, PR65 Cameo
Design. The left-facing head of Liberty shows the hair braided and coiled at the back of her head. A band inscribed LIBERTY encircles her hair. There are 13 stars at the border, 7 left and 6 right with the motto E PLURIBUS UNUM above, and the date below. The reverse inscription 15.3 - G. 236.7 - S. 28 - C. 14 GRAMS is centered within a circle of 38 stars. The legend UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and the denomination GOLOID METRIC DOLLAR are above the circle, and the motto DEO EST GLORIA and 100 CENTS are below. The reverse expresses the denomination in two different ways, one of the few patterns to do so. Struck in aluminum with a reeded edge.
Commentary. The USPatterns.com website states that "about four" examples of Judd-1656 are known. The Newman example and one other certified PR66 are the only two submissions examined at NGC, while PCGS has seen one PR63 and another graded PR67. It is likely that the four certified pieces are the only ones known. We handled the PR63 PCGS coin in January 1999 and the PR67 PCGS example in March 2006, and that was the last auction appearance of this Judd variety.
Physical Description. A few faint lines on Liberty's cheek are observed on this Gem Cameo proof, with the obverse bordering on Ultra Cameo contrast. The reverse also borders on Ultra Cameo contrast. The surfaces are light gray, consistent with the composition, and contact marks are minimal. A highly appealing example of a classic pattern design.
From The Eric P. Newman Collection. (PCGS# 62041)
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Utilities - why your solar future may arrive sooner than you think
By: SGN Staff
Quick Take: Perhaps you think solar is only a concern for a few utilities in ultra-sunny locations. Perhaps you think it will be easy to accommodate when it does arrive. Perhaps you think it won't have a big impact on your bottom line.
Perhaps you are wrong about all three. As you'll read below, Navigant says the solar market is accelerating already. And it will only grow faster when, as Navigant predicts, it reaches cost parity with fossil generation by 2017 in most major markets. It has caught on so fast in California that the state's program to encourage PV is effectively winding down. Or consider cloudy Germany, which is the clear solar leader worldwide.
If you think solar will be easy to handle, talk to San Diego Gas & Electric, which may well have more PV than any other North American utility. It is installing various self-healing technologies in large part to mitigate the challenges of intermittent solar.
If you think solar won't have a big impact, then you may want to review this recent SGN article on the impact of net metering. Be sure to read the comments at the bottom, which nicely frame both sides of the debate.
Solar may be coming sooner than you think. And once it arrives, it may be harder to cope with and harder to pay for than you realize. - Jesse Berst