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Advanced Member
Joined: 2/28/04
I found an interesting article on the net written by Daniel Nations at Examiner.com which I agree with, and I will paste it in this post as if it was my point of view since is very similar to my thoughts about Everquest Next, then I will add few more personal comments:
" Sony Online Entertainment (SOE) has been silent on the subject of Everquest Next since first confirming it was in development, but we do know that it is a total reboot of the Everquest world, giving the development staff the ability to totally re-imagine the world of Norrath. And we can guess that a reboot means it will take place in the same basic timeframe as the original Everquest.
But will it be the original Everquest.
There's an easy-to-read recipe for success when it comes to Everquest Next, and it reads something like this: remake Everquest with today's technology.
There's no denying that World of Warcraft changed the state of MMOs, in some way for better, and in some ways for worse. World of Warcraft was designed to be "accessible", which is a nice way of saying easier and with the more casual player in mind. And World of Warcraft has become more "accessible" as time has gone on.
In and of itself, this is not a bad thing. But since newer games tend to copy the most popular of a genre, this translates to almost every MMO since World of Warcraft playing like the easy mode switch has been turned on.
A standard dungeon run in World of Warcraft consists of blasting your way through trash mobs as quickly as possible until you came to the first unique/named boss. After that fight, you blast your way as quickly as possible to the next, and the next, and the next. For the most part, it was a very linear affair with the only real challenge being the boss mob fights and the rest of the dungeon run playing out more like an Action RPG.
You didn't have dungeon runs in Everquest. You had dungeon crawls. The dungeons themselves weren't linear, as most were expansive dungeons containing many different named bosses spread throughout the area. Parties of characters crept their way around each corner, always careful not to pull a stray mob. Fights consisted of carefully controlling the action, making sure things didn't get out of hand. A single stray mob could be the difference in victory or a total party wipe out, and death was a bit more meaningful than just a ghost run back up to your body.
It was difficult. It was brutal. It was epic.
Should SOE simply decide to remake this game, using today's technology to make the lands even larger and the dungeons even grander, there would be an audience lining up around the corner waiting to play the game. Would it have World of Warcraft numbers? Perhaps not. But it would be successful.
Unfortunately, the desire to change the underlying system is exactly why this won't happen. There is no denying that Everquest had its share of problems. And in ways, time has passed some of the mechanics by. The downtime, for example, played a vital role in the original Everquest. Even in a full party, there was some downtime, but that was good. It allowed a person to chat with their group mates, get to know them, have fun and (in the end) form a community. But in today's voice-chatting Ventrilo server world, it simply doesn't make sense.
And while the death penalty was one of the things that made the game so great -- it would be refreshing to actually worry about dying in a modern MMO -- it's easy to say that it was unbalanced and a bit too harsh at times.
The desire to change these things is understandable, but also the slippery slope. The quest system, for example, could use an overhaul. But like the rest of the game, the quests in the original Everquest make modern MMOs look like super-easy mode. You didn't get arrows pointing the way to quest destinations, or even detailed instructions on how to solve the quest. Some of the epic quests in the game took months for the players to finally solve, which is one of the reasons why the game was so great.
A modern quest system simply doesn't fit. A quest log that keeps track of dialogue and allows the player to write notes would make sense, so long as the rest of the system (including the need to type in the right responses -- which means actually know the right responses) was the same.
But it's that slippery slope. Even if they were going for that classic Everquest feel, the need to put a modern quest system into the game would be too great. And modern quest systems have turned most MMOs into very linear affairs rather than the great sandbox feel that was Everquest (and Ultima Online and Asheron's Call and Dark Ages of Camelot).
Once the sandbox is destroyed, the game starts descending to just another post-WoW MMO on easy mode. The names of the cities and characters might be similar, but put very simply: we don't need World of Everquest.
And that's where they'll go wrong. "
I want to add a last personal thought.
I believe that the MMORPG Industry do not need another EQ2/WAR/RIFT/SWTOR, the market is already full of this stuff which keeps players interested for just few months, before moving on sothing else or worst going back to WoW.
To SOE.............. please be bold for once and have the guts to do something out of the ordinary.
EQ brought MMORPGs to the masses (Although it wasn't the first MMORPG), WoW revolutionaised the MMORPG industry (personally for the worse) and made it mainstream, Everquest Next should re-revolutionise the MMORPG Industry putting the Community and the RPG back in the equation (Something EQ was great at)
Lastly after all I said............I have to admit I am a WoW player and I will keep being one until something different comes out.
At the moment I am playing SWTOR, but it is already wearing out, and I will probably go back to WoW soon (Although I am not sure about the Panda race).
Like me there are probably thousands (millions) of people who play WoW because there is nothing better to play, who are waiting for something really "different" from everything we've seen for the last 7 years
I hope SoE has the courage to make that something different.
Looking back at the original EQ would be a good start.
That game is/was a jewel, it just need to be revisited and adapted to modern standards of accessibility (which doesn't mean easy mode)
If that doesn't happen, Everquest Next will suffer the same fate of Rift and probably SWTOR..............high sales on release but low subscription base after 3-6 months.
Apprentice Member
Joined: 11/25/06
Agree with most of what you said and sadly I too went back to wow. But even now its so easy, they have cross server LFR(looking for raid) so anyone can get the end game epics. We need games with more challenge and hopefully EQ Next delivers.
"Its better to look ugly and win than pretty and lose"
Hard Core Member
Joined: 12/02/11
WoW when it came out was great and I played everquest back in the day but just thought WoW was the better game. It made a better world which was seamless and the instances from level 20 were amazing, unlike anything you'd see in any other MMO. It hit the spot with the combat, best combat of any MMO ever IMO and the world PVP was fun but just needed something to fight over. Basically what blizzard made was a better version of Everquest and they introduced things like quest leveling instead of grinding that you saw in every MMO before it. The other thing it did was let you progress on your own but still had a lot of group content, Everquest 2 came out with mostly gorup quests and you couldn't progress on your own after level 10 and the quests dried out a lot of the time. So I found myself with Everquest 2 soloing the small amount of soloable mobs while my friends were offline.
The problem I have with WoW is what the industry has done since it. All they've tried to do is copy WoW and make an easier version in an effort to make it more accessible and WoW ahs done the same since. What Blizzard have made is a fan faire MMO to Warcraft and have lost the actual game in all that why they try to cater to everyone. I'm just sick of how MMOs have gone in that boring linear easy direction and SWTOR is the latest one to do it and I'm just sick of it. WoW was great and perfected the MMO, however MMOs since have just been shit and WoW has been ruined dumbing it down more and more.
I just hope SOE make a seamless EQ game (never been a seamless one before) and they do something new, if they just try to recreate EQ or WoW then I will be bored already. I would like them to make a sandbox Everquest with lots of content, we've never seen a sandbox game with content so that would be kool. One that feels like an actual online world I can do what I want in, instead of a linear path till I get to the end game and quit because there is nothing to do.
Joined: 12/11/08
Originally posted by ste2000
That doesn't make a bit of sense. There are a lot of games that are very different from WoW that are already out. Some of them are pretty good, even.
Advanced Member
Joined: 2/24/07
MMO sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry.
Even though EQ had a bit of a sandbox feel to it, it was the Grand Dad of all 3D themepark MMOs.
The land wasnt reserved for building on, folks couldnt create their own mob encounters/content, nor ws PVP forced upon folks.
Most of all, Owen was told to sit down and STFU. His role was to support PVE, and not pass out loot. Nor were there manginas shaking their ass, and folks watching them, all cause a forced dependancy was thrown in to a non combatant class.
I dont know where the guy writing that article come up with the idea that EQ was a sandbox, but that is wrong. The 4 PVP servers accounted for roughly 8 or 10% of subs(either 40 or 50 servers). PVE combined with no forced PVP caused EQ to top the charts back then.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Apprentice Member
Joined: 9/27/10
personally i hope they make eq next like vanguard..i know that its going to be completely open like vanguard..wether or not it will be has difficult i dont know.i doubt it tbh..they would only get 3-400k subs max..mainly beause most of the youngsters that play mmo's want to progress quickly.get to end game and then complain there is nothing to do.and my main point is this.everyone knows about sony when it comes to money.they will want to get has many subs as possible and you aint gonna do that making the game difficult.yes you would attract hard core guys..but only if the game was a challenge...only game i know atm which holds a decent challenge is vanguard.i think its quite a cunundrum for sony in that regards..if you make it like wow,they are screwed,if they make it to hard they are screwed for subs and sales.
i think the term is caught between a rock and a hard place.
Advanced Member
Joined: 12/19/07
I agree completely as well. If they are planning to take Next the same direction SWTOR did, they might as well cease production now, and cut their losses. One thing SWTOR confirmed for me, something I have been saying for a long while now, is that more and more people are fed up with the standard WoW themepark design. I'm not saying themeparks are dead, I'm saying copying WoW as far as the gameplay mechanics is concerend is a non-starter.
This is also why I'm looking forward to seeing both GW2 and TSW. They are both shaking things up siginificantly. I'd like to see a turn towards hybrid sandbox/themeparks, but I'd settle for innovative and interesting themeparks.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Advanced Member
Joined: 5/06/11
I don't believe in Everquest Next, it will be a massive failure. (prediction lol)
The good designers have left for other companies (2 went to 38 studios) and the original Luclin artist (the onle one who was half-decent) isn't developing for games anymore I believe (if she is tell me where she went).
A game is only as good as it's designers, what's left at SoE is only the name, the actual people are long gone.
(there are actually 2 or 3 original designers left if I'm 100% honest, but let's be frank, the only reason they're still at SoE is because they have very little to offer other companies)
Advanced Member
Joined: 2/24/07
MMO sandbox games are as exciting as watching paint dry.
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Yep themeparks are doing so bad that TOR tore it up with sales, and folks like you are there on the TOR forums to remind everyone that it is all an illusion. No one actually could like the game, I mean you dont, and you obviously speak for all.
No matter how much someone likes/dislikes the current crop of themeparks doesnt really matter. Your hope of sadbox games taking the primary seat in the MMORPG chain is not going to happen in the next 10 yrs, just like they sucked hind tit the past 10+ yrs.
Even when the day hits that virtual reality is here, folks will be looking to be the hero, and not Bob the butcher from the local market.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Novice Member
Joined: 7/23/03
Sony must know deep down inside they are not going to compete with Swtor, Rift or WoW if they chase the exact same market, and surely they don't want to cannibalise what's left of their EQ2 player base. Unfortunately in my opinion Sony have also proven time and time again capable of making dreadful decisions.
I think the best they could hope for is to provide a service for a respectably sized player base that does crave something deeper and more challenging than what we've been seeing since WoW nerfed the MMO genre. Perhaps some players introduced to the MMO genre through WoW have grown up now, learned the basics, and might now actually be ready to enjoy a more challenging environment.
Sony are obviously open to experimenting with payment models, and as such it might be worthwhile for them to consider something along the lines of charging slightly more than the cheap as hell 15$/£9 a month that's been the norm for well over a decade now. I'd guess that those of us that grew up on Everquest now have real jobs and would be willing to pay more for an experience we can't get anywhere else. If they managed to recapture the essence of what the original Everquest brought to the table I for one wouldn't hesitate to pay even double the current sub rate provided the quality of the game justified such a cost.
The bottom line is, there are hundreds and hundreds of clones out there all catering to the exact same market while entire subsets of players have no option but to play something that's somewhat similar to what they want, but not at all their dream MMO. Surely someone stands to benefit by capitalising on that.
I'm sure there are millions of players quite satisfied with the endless onslaught of cloned linear casual video games, and it's very clear they're more than catered to, but I'm also fairly sure there might be at least a few hundred thousand gamers eager to revisit the online gaming worlds we used to know, ones that newer gamers never got to experience while in their prime.
I personally miss when an MMO could be a hobby with some longevity, and enjoyed the deeper games much more than I do these no-risk-all-reward-linear-task-hub-to max level in two weeks MMO emulators. I just can't appreciate rewards for no risk and no challenge. It's a shallow experience.
It's wishful thinking, and Sony is the last place I'd look for a miracle, but I'd love to be surprised.
Meanwhile I'm bracing for a Free Realms-esque cash shop WoW clone with roughly incorporated Norrathian lore.
Spotlight Poster
Joined: 5/19/06
Originally posted by Quizzical
NAME ONE, please!
ALL exactly like WoW with the same "easy mode" accesibility. You want to find out the perfect formulai for TRULY bringing EQ back? Find an EQ, UO, SWG, DAOC old-schooler who HATES WoW, and you're golden. Simply put, if you didn't understand what he was talking about Quizzical it wasn't for you to digest. As for the rest of us, I can safely say at least FOR ME he was 183% spot on!
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
I think we will see more of everquest later this year/early next year.
Planetside 2 is still very heavy on all the concept, renders animators artisists etc. once they wrapup most of the planetside art im sure they will transfer most of those artists to everquest next and then that game can get into full production and we can start seeing some stuff. It really sohuld not be far off ether, looks like msot of the weapons and vehciles are done, probably need a fair amount more of alternative armour mods made up along with some maps then artistically its done.
Yea I cant find a game that's not a WoW clone amongst these wow clones that I play either.
Spotlight Poster
Joined: 5/19/06
Originally posted by skyexile
Please, I'm still looking for someone to name a game not trying hardcore to copy WoW.
Literally, the ONLY one i could find that was released recently was Fallen Earth, but even that one went HIGHLY linear in design.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Novice Member
Joined: 7/23/03
Originally posted by Moaky07
I think you may have a serious misconception of what sandbox means.
In fact I've felt FAR more heroic in sandboxes in which I earned the right to stand out than I ever did in these endless theme park clones where every other player of my class was wearing the exact same gear and had the exact same accomplishments.
In fact, I haven't heard of anyone since the more sandbox based days that had actually earned a reputation or infamy. How could they in WoW clones? Everyones a clone. Everyone has the best gear. Everyones done the exact same quests. Everyones done the same tiny little linear dungeons.
Meh. If that's what floats your boat I won't criticize. But I also have the luxery of knowing I've at least had the opportunity to experience online gaming worlds with depth that puts the current linear path hand holders to shame.
Apprentice Member
Joined: 9/27/10
Originally posted by Valkaern
somehow i get the same feeling..but i would like to be suprised by them.wont hold my breath though.thing is they must know that if they follow the wow or swtor formula the game will die quickly..the game should be aimed at older generation of players imo..but it wont be lol.and i,m not having a dig at those 2 games..its just gonna be more of the same.one thing it wont be from an interview i saw at E3 or something like that was that the game is not going to be instanced..or so they say.
Advanced Member
Joined: 5/06/11
Originally posted by Fadedbomb
There's a bazillion MMO different from WoW, but each time someone asks this question and I answer, they say "I don't like x, I meant y, I wanted z".
So I'm gonna reply anyway, knowing you'll likely say my answer isn't correct because of x, y, z.
*Street Gears
*Eve Online
You asked for one, I gave you3, and all 3 are completely different from WoW.
Novice Member
Joined: 1/15/11
Originally posted by Rogosh
mate no offense but your sig has a typo..it's than not then.
have you looked much?
theres plenty more too. but if you only look for holy trinity quest based MMO's based around ability combat then everything is going to look like a WoW clone, you probably think GW2 is a wow clone.
Novice Member
Joined: 1/15/11
Originally posted by skyexile
most of those games don't have much financial backing lets be honest.


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text:
So, yes, I believe that when a reliever gives up a grand slam to lose a game 4-3 and takes that long walk off the field, some will take a bit of that to the mound with them next time. Others won't. Most won't, really, since failure is a routine part of baseball. But to say that no pitchers are overly affected by failing in the closing role is, in my opinion, failing to consider what we know about sports psychology and baseball player mentality.
Now, the takeaway from that is not "we must have a proven closer." Not at all. My thought would be, if the guy who is Plan A hasn't closed games before, consider the history and make sure there's a solid Plan B.


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Use your keen eye to pick the right locations to build parks and shops.Windows Version 7.4.44. ... Added: 11/05/14Total Downloads4,413Last Week28
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** This is The Voice: On Stage! The official game and music video tool for the worldwide hit TV show The Voice. NOW WITH MUSIC VIDEOS ** Can you...iOS Version 3.3.0 ... Added: 06/12/15Total Downloads4,605Last Week21
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CCP Unifex On The Inferno Expansion, Part 1 (EVE Online Interview)
Harvesting, manufacturing, and war. These three make up the holy trinity of EVE Online's Senior Producer, Jon Lander. They are especially important in the Inferno Expansion, which will update and manipulate each part of that trinity and how it relates to the players in EVE Online. Despite the immanence of the Inferno Expansion, Lander was kind enough to take some time to answer some of our questions.
War has been an integral part of EVE Online for nearly a decade. It is probably the most common way for new players to be first exposed to PvP, as well. The Inferno expansion touches on and expands some of the biggest systems for wars in high-security space as well as those in the faction war between the major NPC nations.
According to Lander, "War is really the heart of what EVE is about. We call it the perpetual motion machine or the infernal machine. At it's very core, EVE revolves around harvesting, then manufacturing, and then destruction. One of the key things that we want to do is have all of them have an impact on each other. But only one of them really drives activity. One of the things that we really wanted to do in 2012 was take some of the ideas that we had and push on the parts of that machine that generate as much content across as many different play-styles as possible. War is an activity which really exercises that machine.
Faction War In The Inferno Expansion
Inferno will certainly shake things up, and not just with regards to wars in high-security space. Says Lander, "Factional warfare is another really key part of the game for us. It's the entryway for newer players to get interested in fighting for a cause and learning about group PvP. It also lets you participate in part of the backstory. We're gone back and made quite a few changes that will make that more interesting."
The game mechanics involved with the NPC-backed faction war (much of which transpires in low-security space) are going to become much more enticing to players. New benefits include partial ownership of faction-controlled solar systems, cheaper loyalty point rewards. Most importantly, there will also be much larger personal gain offered in exchange for participation in faction-based PvP, whether in the form of direct action against enemy players or by helping the faction militia to take control of more space.
Mineral Prices In Inferno
The harvesting portion of Jon Lander's EVE trinity is well and truly tampered with, already. The so-called Drone Regions have ceased producing minerals, in favor of ISK rewards (like other NPCs in EVE). According to Lander, the havoc was quite intentional: "We have done a number of things to destabilize mineral prices. There has been combat around the drone regions. That combat has upset some of the harvesting part of the EVE machine. So now we have people that want to build ships and get ready for the fight, but the minerals are going up in price. This then encourages people who previously thought mining was unprofitable. Since everything in EVE Online is player-created and related, this is causing a ripple effect throughout the game's economy."
Freshening Up EVE PvP
EVE PvP is in sort of a final stage of growth, where the most effective tactics for the current game environment are well known. Some variation is possible, but little innovation. Contrast this with the EVE Online of five years ago, when ship doctrines were few and far between, minerals were more expensive, and player expertise was generally deplorable. New ship fittings were tried all the time, and the best organizations also had the best fittings.
While we may never have that slow-as-molasses spread of useful information again, we can have something else, per Jon Lander: "We have a ton of new modules to introduce. Right now, everybody knows exactly what fitting you should have on any particular ship. It's come down to one or two possible vanilla setups, where we can predict what people are probably using. With Inferno, we've started throwing in new modules. This is the first round of putting quite a few new modules in. What this does is give people options, and starts them thinking about how to adapt to the new modules. Whole fittings will start changing around some of the things that we've done. Already, just looking on our public test server, we've started seeing some crazy fits. People in a ship that I would normally be able to spot from a mile off and predict the exact counter to have been able to give me a bit of a bloody nose."
Want to read the second part of this interview? Check back with us tomorrow, and don't forget to train a long skill.


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I totally agree with Morrie Pongratz that the teen center is important and serves a real good purpose.
But, so do all the other county services.
Really, Morrie, you came off sounding quite whiny — we need to serve some cheese with that.
It is quite unlike you to be so ill-informed. The APP funds are from a different pot, as the Los Alamos Monitor pointed out.
Aesthetics is quite important to work on this town. Many of us need a kick in the butt to spruce up our own properties and APP can be the stimulus.
And to pick on PEEC, shame on you. Have you looked at their website? They do marvelous things for all ages, but particularly the younger group. This is important to help young people and their parents find exciting, stimulating, alternative ways to entertain themselves while spending time outdoors.
I am sorry the committee could not agree on a place for the teen center but that argument really did not help the funding situation you were ranting about.
The county is having budget issues and trying to solve them reasonably.
We are all going to see some changes and will need to accommodate. Life is tough — nobody ever promised a rose garden.
Becky Scaborough
Los Alamos
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Harrow Temples yearly Summer Funday is back. This years Funday is expected to be even bigger & better as it is part of the upcoming Golden Jubilee Mahotsav. The aim of this event is to raise money for the identified charities.
There will be health events such as Diabetes Testing, Blood Donor Registration, Yoga, and other events like Games, Raffle Draws, and Delicious food. All proceeds will go towards the nominated charities.
ShreeHari Tapovan Gurukul Gangaji, Rampar Vekra will hold a special Jaap Yagna during the auspicious Purushottam Maas, also known as Adhik Maas. The special yagna will be held on the banks of Gangaji River and will further highlight the greatness of the Swaminarayan Mahamantra. By chanting this mantra, devotees such as Jobanpagi, Manjasur, Takhopagi, Rudio rakhdu have reached an elevated state. "Je Swaminarayan naam lese, tena badha patak badi dese, che nama sara shruti ma anek, sarvopari aaj ganay ek..."
Shree Swaminarayan Temple Harrow and Stanmore Temple have jointly organised the celebration of the Rath Yatra festival on Sunday 19th July from 11.00am. All devotees are requested to gather at Harrow Temple at 11am; from there everyone will get the opportunity to serve the Lord by pulling the Rath across the streets of Harrow. The final destination will be Stanmore Temple where Maha Prasad be served.
Shree Swaminarayan Gurukul Rapar will perform daily Mahapuja during Purushottam Maas. It is said in the Purans that those who perform Mahapooja in this month gain more fruits than performing many Ashvameg yagnas. A continuous divo will also be present in front of the Lord throughout this auspicious month.
Our Dharma Sandesh is now ready to view online or download in PDF format. Fully packed with the latest images, news, events and much more, thats happening in our sampraday around the world.
Shree Swaminarayan Temple East London is pleased to announce the 2015 iteration of the Swaminarayan League Cup. This UK-wide sports tournament will further enhance the ties of our community across the country during what promises to be a fun, action-packed day of sports.
Jay Shree Swaminarayan
Devotees wishing to make a small contribution to various charitable deeds headed by Bhuj Mandir please visit us. This link can be found under "Contact Us" for future reference.
Take the opportunity to gain transcendental knowledge from the association of Saints on their tour around the Kenya. Keep track of where and when Bhuj Mandir Saints are at your local Temple. Indulge yourselves in the divine glory of the Lord through Katha and Kirtans. ''Sant param hitkari jagat maahi... - Saints are the most salutary in this Universe...'' Flight details: Kenya Airways Flight KQ211 landing 15th June 2015 at 20:55 - Nairobi Kenya.
Shree Swaminarayan Mandir Bhuj will be hosting a special katha parayan for a pious Adhik Maas. As part of this occasion Nishkulanand Kavya composed by Nishkulanand Swami will be recited by saints from Bhuj Temple.
Shree Swaminarayan Mandir Perth invites you to be part of Shreemad Bhagwad Pancha Parayan. As part of this occasion Shreemad Bhagwad, composed by Bhagwan Vyasji will be recited by saints from Ahmedabad Temple. This divine scripture recited by Shukdevji Maharaj to King Parikshit is one of Maharaj's favourite scriptures as per Verse 93-95 of the Shikshapatri. This parayan will also be graced by the Ahmedabad gadi Acharya, Maharajshri ShriKaushalendraprasadji.
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Discover, download and listen to our collection of kirtan's, bhajan's and katha's.
Keep upto date with news and events from around the world.
Read and discover the key to true knowledge and a true way of living.
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Under the series of births of God almighty on the land of India, one great saint had taken birth on Monday 2nd April 1781,
on the ninth moon day of Samvat 1837. read more
Shree Swaminarayan Temple Bhuj, Tirth Dham, Bhuj-Kutch, 370001, Gujarat, India
Phone: +91 (0) 2832 250231, Fax: +91 (0) 2832 250131


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Details and Shopping
Customer Favorite
Pieced together pebbled leather tall zip boot with chunky heel and buckle detailing around top of boot and around ankle. Zips up inner sides of boot all the way up. Buckle can be adjusted and extended because of extra fabric on upper outer sides. Back of top has elastic inserts for stretch. Leather feels super soft and supple. The essential everyday tall boot.
*By Jeffrey Campbell
*Leather Upper, Rubber Sole
*17" shaft height, 15" opening circumference
*4 1/4" heel
*By Jeffrey Campbell
*Leather Upper, Rubber Sole
*17" shaft height, 15" opening circumference
*4 1/4" heel
Rated 4 out of 5Â by 4 reviewers.
Rated 3 out of 5Â by rand Circ. info Wrong!! These boots are absolutely gorgeous! The colour and texture of the leather is perfection! However, the circumference info is a little iffy; I would consider myself to have muscly calves, and I always look carefully at sizing descriptions. But I measured up and the info supplied by FP made me think they'd fit -- I even measured around my calves while I had other knee high boots on! Am not sure if it's just that I'm a 6.5 shoe and so the circumference is smaller... anyway, it's more like 12.5 - 13" than 15" and around my calves (with my boots and skinny jeans on!!) is 14" so have to return them. Other bugger of a thing is that I have to ship them from Australia which is going to be really dear! I wouldn't have bought them had the description been accurate. Still; they are GOBSMACKINGLY GORGEOUS and if you've got skinny calves, GO FOR IT!! 7.23.2012
Rated 5 out of 5Â by Shelina816 Boots go with anything Such a good all around boot. Leather is soft and high quality. The color is sort of a grayish with a green hue. I did not have a problem with the fit being to snug around my calf as the other two reviews had mentioned. Don't pass up this sale price. SO happy with my purchase! 7.21.2012
Rated 4 out of 5Â by Mikalah Super cute, but odd fit! I agree with the other review, in that the shaft for some reason is super tight. I don't in any way have big calves, and I've never had a problem with other boots in this area. The actual shoe part fits true to size, but I have to pull the boots on rather than rely on the zipper. They are really super cute, and great for the price, so I'm keeping them in hopes that the shaft will stretch out over time. Very sturdy, and the leather is super soft. 6.28.2012
Rated 4 out of 5Â by p1gp3n tight shaft the shoe part fits true to size, even a bit roomy. the color is more dark olive in person, not really brownish as pictured. the heel is pretty good and sturdy, and doesn't feel like i'm walking on stilts. the leather is super super soft. and now the issue: the shaft is super tight. for reference, i don't have issue with jc's romana fest sandals, joe lace up boots or frye's stone wash slouch boots, but these, i could not zip them up. the good part is that the leather is stretchy, so i could actually pull the boots up with them fully zipped with a bit of effort. and they probably will stretch out over time. the height of the shaft is actually also too high for me (5'3") so i need to wear them a bit crumpled at the ankle so that they're shorter and i could actually walk in them without the top constantly hitting the back of my knees. i actually really do like them, but i took one star off for the ill fit. 3.24.2012
1-4 of 4
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Raspberry Cream Bombe
|2 (Plus 2 Yolks)
|Egg yolks
|1⁄3 Cup (5.33 tbs)
|Table cream
|450 Milliliter
|Vanilla extract
|3 Drop
|Whipping cream
|1 Cup (16 tbs), whipped
|Raspberry sorbet
|125 Milliliter (1/2 Quantity)
1. Mix the eggs, egg yolks and sugar together in a bowl.
2. Bring the table cream to the boil, then pour onto the egg mixture, stirring vigorously. Strain, then leave to cool.
3. Add the vanilla extract and fold in the whipped cream.
4. Pour into a rigid freezerproof container, cover, seal and freeze for about 2 hours, until half-frozen. Beat with an electric whisk, cover and return to the freezer for about 30 minutes, until fairly firm.
5. Beat the ice cream to an even consistency, then use to line thickly the inside of a chilled 1.5 litre (6 cup) bombe mould or pudding basin.
6. Fill the centre with the raspberry sorbet and cover with any remaining ice cream. Put the lid of the bombe mould on, or cover the basin with foil, and freeze for about 1 hour, until firm.


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OTE Whey & Casein Recovery Powdered Drink has been designed and developed to help repair and rebuild muscle, and speed your recovery and adaptation to exercise. Recovery is about function and fuel and can be considered as the ability to be able to perform again following previous exercise, whether after training or racing.
OTE Whey & Casein Recovery Drink provides the essential proteins needed to support adaptation and recovery from exercise, and help the re-fuelling process without over loading the body with excess carbohydrates. We consider our Whey and Casein recovery drink to be the gold standard for endurance athletes.
The delicious natural chocolate flavouring makes your workout even more rewarding. Not suitable for vegetarians, please see our Soya Recovery Drink.
Key Features:
|Nutritional Info:
Please remember to add postal time (2-3 working days) to obtain a complete estimate of delivery to your door.
You will receive an email to confirm when your item has been sent.
You can also check the status of your order and individual items by accessing your account details and following the prompts.
Please allow 10 working days from dispatch of your order before notifying us of any late deliveries.
It may be advisable to check with your neighbours to see if a parcel has been left with them, check any outhouses you might have where it may be left if it cannot fit through your letterbox and contact your local sorting office to see if the item has been returned to the depot as undelivered and awaiting collection.
Please see our returns policy.
RRP kr484,12
RRP kr127,40
OTE Energy Gel 56g - Box of 20
RRP kr343,98
RRP kr0,13
There are currently no reviews.


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FOXBORO -- Referee John Parry's voice boomed over the Gillette Stadium public address system again and again: "No. 77 is reporting as an eligible receiver."
In last week's preseason game between the Eagles and Patriots, New England tackle Nate Solder lined up as an eligible tight end six times in the first quarter, 20 percent of his team's offensive snaps in that period.
It's a look that the Patriots have used in the past -- Solder often played as a blocking tight end during his rookie season and was asked all week leading up to Super Bowl XLVI if he would be catching any passes from Tom Brady -- and one that could continue to serve them well as they continue to deal with a lack of depth at the tight end position.
Last week the Patriots had only Steve Maneri suited up at tight end. When Carolina rolls into town tonight, Maneri will likely get the majority of snaps at the position while recently re-signed rookie Justin Jones could also factor in.
The other two tight ends on the roster, Rob Gronkowski and Michael Hoomanawanui, continue to rehab from injuries and it's unlikely they take the field for the team's third preseason game.
That means in two-tight-end sets, we could see more of Solder or second-year guard Josh Kline, who also got snaps at tight end last week, playing out of position.
When the Patriots have an extra lineman on the field, those types of formations provide an intriguing combination of blockers in front of Brady. Not only is it a useful personnel grouping when the team is dealing with injuries at tight end, but even with a full complement of players, employing an extra tackle or guard on the end of the line forces defenses to adjust to a devastating set of blockers overloaded to one side of the play.
One reason the Patriots are able to mix in that type of variable look is because it has a pair of smart, athletic behemoths who deal well with change.
Solder was a tight end during his redshirt season at Colorado and so he has experience at that spot. He also played baseball and basketball through high school, and has long been touted as a well-rounded athlete who can adapt on the fly.
Kline was a state champion wrestler in high school before moving on to Kent State where he played guard and tackle.
Both are smart players who have no trouble translating their play-to-play duties when swapped to a spot other than what they're used to.
"You kind of have to flip the plays in your brain," Solder said. "That's not as tricky -- for a younger player it would be -- but once you understand the basis of the play, once you've kind of seen the play from both sides, [it's easier to understand]. It takes practice. I'm glad when I get in there I've run that play a few times from that side. There's different footwork involved and those sorts of things."
For Solder, switching from left tackle to tight end on the right side was like learning how to make a lefty layup: difficult at first, but easier once he developed some muscle memory.
"You use a different side of your body," Solder said. "When you're on the left side, counter-intuitively, you use your right side a lot more. You're pushing people toward your left. On the right side it's the opposite. You're using your left side more."
Solder explained that receiving pre-snap blocking assignments from the center also takes some getting used to: It's more difficult at tight end since he's physically further removed from the middle of the formation. Instead of being able to hear the center's barking, he has to have the message relayed from the tackle next to him.
"You know how that can be," Solder said. "It's like a game of telephone."
He's also blocking different types of players as a tight end compared to those he'd normally see as a tackle -- smaller ones, specifically.
"It's pretty wild how much different of a world it is, even from guard to tackle and tackle to tight end," he said. "It's a whole different world everywhere you're at. It's a whole different envorinment. You're not surrounded. You're kind of out there on your own."
That's the biggest adjustment for Kline, who jumps not one spot outside but two if he's ever called upon to play on the end.
"It changes a little bit just technique-wise," he said. "You're usually going against defensive ends or Sams so you're going against quicker people that are on the end. You're out on an island almost."
Patriots coach Bill Belichick explained earlier this week that there are several factors that go into determining which 300-pounder is best suited to play on the edge.
"None of those players are really here to play tight end," he said. "They're here to play center, guard or tackle, whatever the offensive line position or a combination is. So which guy we move to tight end, that's kind of a function of who's available, who would cause the least disruption in the offensive line, combined with which player has the best skills to play on the end of the line. I'd say it comes down to a combination of those two things.
"Ideally your sixth lineman would be not one of your starters who could come in and go out. But if it's not him and it's some kind of juggling where you put one of your starters out there, then you bring somebody in, then that causes a little juggling on the line and a player has to go out to come back in at his position for a play and so forth.
"But we've done it both ways. It's just trying to find the best combination of those. We've had a number of guys work at that spot . . . as you know, in the past we've used defensive linemen like Mike Vrabel and guys like that. It just creates a little more depth for us and gives us the ability to manage the game. But there are some moving parts and we have to try to work those out."
The common denominator for any player that has made the switch is that they must have the ability to learn quickly.
"Of course the mental part of it is a little bit different too," Belichick said. "The tight end flips sides, from left to right, and the numbering of the plays changes and so forth. Whereas when you're just playing one position, whether it's right guard or right tackle or whatever it happens to be, a guy's always in the same place and he doesn't move. You get used to a numbering system or terminology that's more consistent and stays the same for those guys all the time. But when you're a tight end and you're moving, then one time you're on one side and one time you're on the next side. And the terms in the running game and the passing game, whether it's running plays or protections or possibly routes -- not an extensive route tree but possibly routes -- those get into some more learning. The wheel starts to spin a little faster when you add that volume in addition to a regular line position."
When the Patriots went with Solder at tight end last week, they inserted Marcus Cannon to play left tackle and kept Sebastian Vollmer at right tackle. The first time they used that grouping two minutes into the game, Solder was able to dominate Eagles linebacker Connor Barwin on the edge, clearing a huge running lane for Stevan Ridley who picked up 11 yards.
On New England's next drive, they began with the same group and forced Philadelphia linebacker DeMeco Ryans to burn a timeout since he knew they weren't equipped to handle what the Patriots showed before the snap.
The question is now, how often will we see those types of formations going forward?
Was the three-tackle set a product of the lack of depth at tight end? Or was it a package the Patriots could use regularly in order to force opposing defenses to account for a unique and over-sized personnel group?
We won't know until the regular season gets underway and the Patriots coaching staff begins to unveil more of its playbook, but it's still an interesting wrinkle to keep an eye out for.
"You never know," Solder said, "when they're going to pull it out."


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Scottsdale Show Photos and Results
Enjoy the 2012 Scottsdale Show! Daily commentary, photo galleries and full results!
DA Valentino and Dolorosa Arabians
As the sun was rising in Wilmington, North Carolina on Friday, February 28, 2003, it was already mid-day in Cairo, Egypt; Riyadh, Saudi Arabia; Warsaw, Poland, and London, England...
2015 Arabian Breeders World Cup
The 2015 Arabian Breeders World Cup, from April 16-19th in Las Vegas (USA), was another memorable show experience. This year marked its ninth anniversary as one of the world's top showcases for Arabian horses. Known for its international appeal, competitors and guests travel from all over the world to participate. Denis Schoukens, from Belgium, was in attendance to support his son Glenn, of Schoukens Training Center. He shared, "I have been to the Breeders World Cup in Las Vegas several times and without a doubt, this year's show was the best. In many ways the World Cup reminds me of the top European shows. The staging and arrangement of the arena was excellent. It was quite elegant and nice for the people to watch and enjoy and it was an ideal set up for the handlers to present the horses. The great horses, great breeders and special friends made it a show to remember."
The South Point Hotel and Casino has been the home to the ABWC since the beginning. It is a unique locale as show participants and guests can actually stay where the show is being held—which makes for exceptional convenience. The Hotel was opened in February 2006 and is the only one in Las Vegas to offer equestrian facilities. It hosts over 60 shows annually, of various disciplines and breeds and offers 4600 seats with 1200 stalls—ample room for even the largest expositions.
2011 Brazilian Nationals
The 2011 Brazilian Nationals are well underway with some fantastic horses showing! We will be posting results and photos as the show continues. Enjoy!
The Queen is Only One - the story of Kwestura
When the crop of Monogramm-sired foals at Michałów State Stud of Poland was born, director Ignacy Jaworowski, one of the most talented and successful breeders in the world described in his diaries...
Justynn & Salaa Ali Standing at Yorklyn Arabians
The beautiful, black, Egyptian stallion Justynn (Alixir x Bint Bint Justina) and the striking, grey, Egyptian stallion Salaa Ali (Shahir IASB x Jahmalah) are now both standing in Delaware at Yorklyn Arabians.
ORRION FARMS – An Arabian Horse Landmark
Orrion Farms is truly a landmark in the international Arabian horse world. For over 17 years it has been the source of some of the breed's most successful show and breeding horses...
Michael Byatt Arabians - Mid Point in 2010
Years ago, a famous horse farm, coined the phrase, "Your Success Is Our Success". The point was simple, if you, our client succeeded, then we too succeeded. With that in mind, whether breeding, training, or selling our horses...
Scottsdale Show Results: Saturday, February 18
SATURDAY MORNING - FEBUARY 18 - EQUIDOME - 8:00 A.M. Class 61 940 HUNTER SEAT EQUITATION CHAMPIONSHIP, RIDERS 14-17 To be eligible, riders must have been entered, shown and judged in a designated Hunter Seat Equitation qualifying class at this show. Competitors shall enter the ring and proceed at least once around ring at each gait and, on command, reverse and
Gone Too Soon - Russ Vento, Jr.
For many of us in the Arabian horse industry, Sunday, October 11th, 2009 started out like most Sunday mornings; nice warm shower, cup of coffee, throw on some barn clothes and go check the horses...
Ca' di Gianni Europe Breeding Station
Scientific research and development of reproductive technologies are producing fundamental changes also in horse breeding of excellence. Increasingly sophisticated techniques of artificial insemination...
Pogrom Video Promotion
On Friday, June 29, 2012 around 1:00 p.m. Arabhorse.com received a call from David Boggs of Midwest Station II telling us about a new video for the incredible stallion *Pogrom. He wanted to make a big splash with the video and utilize all available resources to promote this great young stallion. He came to Arabhorse.com asking for a unique and innovative


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Posted August 21, 1995 and updated on April 30, 2009
Why is Man Of The House rated PG?
Official MPAA Rating: Man Of The House is rated PG for
Please read our content details for this movie to help determine if it is suitable for members of your family. We also encourage you to check our full review and our movie information page.


text: Dating Doc Love 1/6 Single Guy's Opinion 2/6 Single Girl's Opinion 3/6 Fatherhood 4/6 Weekly Pickup Line 5/6 Dating Tips 6/6 Select a sub-channel Doc Love Single Guy's Opinion Single Girl's Opinion Fatherhood Weekly Pickup Line Dating Tips Dating Tips Here's The Right Way To Date Online Read More Dating Tips It Turns Out There Are Such Things As The Laws Of Attraction Read More Single Guy's Opinion So You Finally Want Kids. But She Doesn't. Wait, What? Read More Doc Love Yes, It's True. You Need To Finally Let Her Go Read More Single Guy's Opinion Are You Single Because You're Just Not Getting Noticed? Read More Dating Tips Do Nice Guys Really Finish Last? Read More Single Guy's Opinion Yes, It's True. Dating Is Over. So What's Next? Read More Single Girl's Opinion You're Evolving, Right? Then Why Does She Miss The Old You? Read More Single Guy's Opinion Are You In A Manipulative Relationship? Read More Single Guy's Opinion Things Have Worked Out Well So Far. But Is She A Keeper? Read More Doc Love Take Things Slow To Build Her Attraction Read More Fatherhood What Worries You The Most About Having Kids? Read More Fatherhood Why Your Kids Will Always Be Happier Than You Read More Dating Tips The Dos And Don'ts Of Being In A Relationship In Your 20s Read More Doc Love Is It OK To Get Emotional Before You Get Physical? Read More Doc Love Did She Really Just Do That With Your Best Friend? Read More Dating Tips How To Dust Yourself Off And Try Again After A Tough Break Read More Single Girl's Opinion Why Being Single In December Is Actually A Good Thing Read More Doc Love You Might Be Secretly Sending Her Mixed Messages Read More Dating Tips 5 Easy Ways To Make Your Girlfriend Happy Read More Fatherhood Wait. Your Parents Are Doing What Now? Read More Doc Love Are Relationships Based On Adultery Always Doomed? Read More Dating Tips Revealed: The 49 Men Your Girlfriend Judges You By Read More Dating Tips How Soon Is Too Soon To Give Up Chasing A Girl? Read More Doc Love When Was The Last Time She Compromised? Read More Doc Love Want Her Back? Try Making Yourself Unavailable Read More Doc Love Are You Being Too Needy And Driving Women Away? Read More Fatherhood Is It Possible To Survive On No Sleep? Read More Dating Tips 5 Things Celeb Marriage Proposals Will Teach You Read More Doc Love Doc Love: The Friend Zone Dos and Don'ts Read More ad


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Album Rating: 4.5Perth is the only song on here I don't like
Beth rules
Nothing's anywhere near as good as Holocene though. Only track that's better than most of For Emma.
Mayyyybe even best Bon Iver
Never heard this.
Album Rating: 4.0if you wanna get into bon iver start with for emma,forever ago
Digging: Self Defense Family - Heaven Is Earth
I'll stick to Meshuggah thanks m/
Album Rating: 4.0
come talk to me
Album Rating: 3.5beth is great. minnesota wi da bess
Album Rating: 4.5Damn its already been 3 years since this came out
Album Rating: 5.0 | Sound Offwe are due more bon bon soon i hope
Album Rating: 4.0I'm still surprised by how Mr. Vernon pretty much ignored the acoustic guitar for this one.
Album Rating: 4.0does anyone know of any other albums like this? it has a folk-vibe going but there is a lot of background music added (drums, sax, electronics), so the music itself is dynamic
I checked out his previous album and it didn't feel the same
Album Rating: 5.0I wouldn't compare them to Bon Iver but MewithoutYou sort of does http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4g-3WRXIts
Album Rating: 5.0 | Sound OffY'all heard the new track for the zach Braff film? It's pretty mellow, but also ace
nah gotta check
don't get down to this v often anymore but towers/michicant is magical
incredible album
Album Rating: 3.5Perth, Holocene + Towers are beautiful. While still mostly good, the other tracks dot engage me nearly as much.
yea perth rules too
never got into holocene as much like it's nice but idk
second half is a blur except beth/rest which is lolbad
Album Rating: 4.5 | Sound Offi will defend beth/rest to the bitter end
Album Rating: 3.5beth/rest is cringe worthy honestly.
Album Rating: 5.0 | Sound OffBeth/rest is genius
Bands: A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z


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The MT-1758 58mm HD 1.7x Telephoto Conversion Lens from Helder provides 1.7x magnification to any 58mm threaded lens - for added zoom when shooting. Whether you're shooting portraits, wildlife or sports, the high definition MT-1758 zooms in on the scene and allows you to bring your subjects in closer than before. Attach the conversion lens to the 58mm filter thread on your already attached lens and start shooting. You can even attach a 82mm lens filter to the front of it, adding protection and unique effects to your images.
- 1.7x Telephoto
- Having 1.7x magnification means your focal length will increase by a factor of approximately 1.7, which is an affordable way to get closer to those far-off subjects.
- 58mm Rear Lens Mount
- Screw this onto the front end of your currently attached lens and the MT-1758 will transform your lens to that of a telephoto effect.
- 82mm Front Filter Thread
- Add any 82mm size filter for increased protection, and added effects to your images.


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Browse: All Tracks: Bremerton Raceway
Bremerton Raceway RSS feed:
Track Elevation: 152 feet
Bremerton Raceway Density Altitude
For more information on this track visit North American Motorsports Pages.
Click on the 1/4 ET to display the DragTime in detail. Times with a * have a picture.
Record details include:
Dynamometer Dyno Results: Navigation System : Engine: Turbos: Supercharger: Boost Control: Boost Pressure (psi): Intercooler: Nitrous Oxide NOS System: NOS Shot: Pistons (rotors): Port: Rings (seals): Heads: Connecting Rods: Intake: Filter Headers (downpipe): Midpipe: Exhaust: Carburetor: Computer: Ignition: Spark Plugs: Gas: 94 Octane Pulley: Transmission: Clutch: Flywheel: Shifter: Gears: Wheels: Tires


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free shaymin icon by RRRAIWatch
YUSH, it's free Ö u Ö
if you use it, please credit me in your signature!
if you use it, please credit me in your signature!
eeeeep!!!! so cute!!
I will use! I'll give credit in my ID.
awh! thank you so much sweetheart.
It looks so cute and fluffy. I like how the grass is shaded.
So cute!!
OMG it's so fluffy and adorable! ; ワ ;
Oh YAY~!! TEE LISÄÄ POKIMONEJA!!
I saw the petilil one first and I started thinking "Wow! You should make a shaymin one. ~clicks next page~ ERMAHGERD SHERMENNNN ; u ;"
Shaymin is awesome. Gotta love the hedgehog/Chia Pet Pokemon. XD
My fav pokemon <3
Heck yes.
Aww, how simply adorable!
Sooooo cuuuuuuute
its sooo cute!
omigod, SO CUTE!!! I LOVE SHAYMIN!!
:3 sooo cute i want to use it xD but ... *looks at icon* hmmm ... >o<
*le uses it *
*le uses it *
Adorable. ;u;
shaymin is only one of the cutest pokemon EVER! great job on this icon, i love your pixel art!! ;w;
So cute!!!!
shaymin is fucking adorable oh my gosh ldkjhdskj ; Y ;
aaaaahhhhh AI LAV IT SOU MATS♥
lutunen OuQ
lutunen OuQ
'bout time you did more pokemon stuff
Joking of course...but very very cute!
Joking of course...but very very cute!
Shaymin on yksi ihannimmista pokemneista o u o ja ihana icon tietysti :3
I love when people make Shaymin's flower a slightly redder shade, it looks so perfect.
I love when people make Shaymin's flower a slightly redder shade, it looks so perfect.
/cries with rainbows/ this is fabulous ; A ;
Aww so cute nvn <3
uerhgueyirswhgfueriwb I love shaymin >:3
BTW whats your fav pokemon?
oh god... I love shaymin! how could anyone hate such a cute pokemon?
I love it *-*
Shaymin is kawaii, i have two x3
Shaymin is kawaii, i have two x3
shaymin aaahhhh its so cute!
grass hair!


text:
Martin St. Louis on the Detriot Red Wing
NFL Analyst
Follow @ sportstalkfla
Tampa Bay Lightning captain Martin St. Louis spoke to media after Thursday's morning skate about coming out of games with points and how important they will be in April.
"This is a game that we have to have," St. Louis said about the match up tonight versus the Detroit Red Wings.
The Lightning have lost two straight and are 3-4-3 in their last 10-games.
[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/124497490″ params="color=ff6600&auto_play=false&show_artwork=true" width="100%" height="166″ iframe="true" /]
Tags: The Tampa Bay Lightning


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what is the normal concentration of NaCl in blood of mouse, rabbit and rat?
Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:34 PM
- Cesseasculk likes this
Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:50 PM
Posted 29 August 2012 - 04:27 PM
Roughly normal saline - 0.9% or approx 150 mM.
are you sure?
I have read that mice eat more salt than that of human.
and about Rabbit, they are Coprophagia, that is they eat their own feces to gain enough vitamin 12 and etc.
So I think that thay have more NaCl concentration in their blood.
0.9% or approx 150 mM is for human blood.
Edited by memari, 29 August 2012 - 04:31 PM.
Posted 29 August 2012 - 07:05 PM
Therapy for common viral infections is generally supportive as there are no specific treatments. Dehydration may require isotonic fluid therapy (0.9% saline or 5% dextrose). Animals not drinking water orally require 40-80 mL fluids/kg/day, administered SC or IP in divided doses 3-4 times per day (eg, 1-2 mL/day for a 25 g mouse or 16-32 mL/day for a 400 g rat).
You also culture cell lines such as NIH3T3 in DMEM and similar mediums, which all have the same base of normal saline
Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: NaCl, concentration, blood
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Sport Tourer
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Northern California
Oddometer: 36
Clover Tekno Suit Review
O.K. I admit it; I am a gear junkie, like other inmates that frequent this equipment forum. The wife says I have way too much motorcycle apparel in my closet. Of course, I then remind her of her vast shoe collection spanning several closets. I enjoy spending hours online reading motorcycle apparel reviews, accident studies, and ogling over the vast amount of motorcycle apparel available, some of which has made its way into my collection. Searching for the holy grail of motorcycle suits that would provide maximum safety, functionality, and style. There are a lot of motorcycle clothing manufactures, some good, some not so good, with prices ranging from less than a Benjamin to well into the thousands. One question that always pops up is how well would this jacket or pant protect me if I become intimate with the pavement or another object. Lets face it, there really is no way to tell for sure how your preferred clothing will hold up in an accident as each accident physics are unique. And of course there are limits to any clothing given the forces involved. I have seen examples of low priced gear that have provided impressive protection, and high priced gear that had shocking results. However if we look at accidents in general, the riders apparel, and thus the rider, are subject to things like abrasion and tearing, which can result in soft tissue damage, and impact or collision, which break bones and damage organs. Given this, basic testing of abrasion and tear resistance of materials used in apparel, including seam strength, and protection from impact and the energy transfers involved, can provide some insight into how well the outcome may be when things go wrong. I decided that gear that had actually undergone some certified independent testing to documented standards would be where my next chunk of change would go.
In my research, I came across Clover, an Italian company, and their innovations in motorcycle apparel, which included the first clothing with ventilation, and first apparel with built in protectors. The Clover Tekno jacket and pants are the first suit with detachable layers that fully meet CE Level 2 certification (not just the armor), but there was very little info about it other than what was on Clovers website. WebBikeWorld finally shed some much needed info on the jacket in a review they did back in 2012. The url is below:
If you haven't already, I recommend you check out their review first, before reading mine. My intent is to provide supplemental information to their fine review, and try to avoid covering the same info they already touched upon. One thing unique will be my review of the pants, as I believe this is probably the first of its kind on the Internet.
First off, here is the entire getup:
(Tekno Suit Front)
(Tekno Suit Back)
There is only one version of the pants, however the jacket is also available in all black. Opted for the hi-vis version to help out those cagers that tend to overlook us folks on two wheels.
Now lets break it down and talk about the individual components.
First the jacket
The black material throughout most of the jacket is Clovers DHP 700, which is some sort of magic textile. It has a stiff texture similar to thick canvas (which softens only slightly over time), however it is not rough to the tough, just feels rugged. The yellow areas make up Zone 1 protection and consist of Clovers Iron 1000. This is the material that can be seen in the YouTube video lasting upwards of 20 times longer than Cordura 500 in the impact/abrasion test. This material is also stiff but feels very slick and bulletproof to the touch. Its easy to see how this material would tend to slide and hold up when introduced to pavement at speed.
Like precurved racing gloves, the jacket has a similar build. The sleeves seem to be designed to favor the riding position. They measure slightly shorter on the inside than outside giving a flared out appearance.
On the bike, this works well, but off the bike, it gives you a pumped up badass look, which aint so bad either.
There are zippered vents along the sleeves, chest, and back. The two adjustment snaps along the sleeves to adjust width only have two positions.
Personally, I prefer adjustable hook-and-loop straps, like on my BMW Rallye 3, to provide a more custom adjustment. The two positions, however for me, provide a fairly good securing of the arm pads. When the liners are in the jacket, it fits quite snug, as it should.
Back protector (which is sold separately) is long, but not real wide, and CE Level 2 certified. This one is size M, which is the recommended size for my height (5 11), and is secured in a pocket that zips closed at the top.
(Front and Back View)
(Back Protector in Jacket)
Here are pics of the shoulder and arm armor (CE Level 1). They are held in pockets and use hook-and-loop fasteners.
(Shoulder Armor)
(Elbow Armor)
A booklet is included to show how the armor preformed when subject to the standard 50 Joule impact test. I would say they rated fair IMHO, but there are better armor available. I ended up replacing the elbow armor with the NP ones from my Rallye 3 jacket. They fit nicely into the existing pockets and provide greater coverage.
There is a windproof/waterproof liner that attaches to the inside of the jacket via a zipper across each side of the jacket. There are two loops with snaps on the end of each sleeve that secure this liner to the jacket. The thermal liner then zips into this waterproof liner.
Now for the pants
(Tekno Pants Front)
(Tekno Pants Side)
(Tekno Pants Back)
First impression was they were a little strange in that they have a fairly low cut waist, which is a little weird when wearing them standing up, but turns out to be a good thing when on the bike, especially if you were "big belly challenged". The pants do have detachable suspenders that help keep them up.
There is CE level 1 armor in the hips and knees. It looks like this when removed.
(Hip Armor)
(Knee Armor)
The hip pads fit in a pocket inside the pants:
The knee armor has a hook-and-loop fastener on the top that attaches to a similar one in a pocket accessed from the outside of the pants. You unzip the pocket, slide the knee armor in, and press it against the fastener inside.
(Inserting Knee Armor into Pant)
Not the best setup in my opinion, but does provide a good deal of adjustment for various leg length/sizes. I have opted to remove both the hip and knee armor and wear my Forcefield Pro pants underneath. Without the liners in, there is enough room for this to work, but doubt it will be feasible when the liners are required as they take up an additional amount of real estate. Also, my NP knee armor from my Rallye 3 pants fits into these pockets and provides better protection. I use this configuration with some Forcefield Pro shorts, to protect the hips, during warmer weather.
With that, lets take a look at the two pant liners. Similar to the jacket, there is a wind/waterproof liner:
(Waterproof liner)
that attaches to the inside of the pant via zippers around the waist and at the bottom of each leg. And a thermal liner:
(Thermal Liner)
that attaches similarly to the inside of the pants using a separate zipper.
Also, there are two attachment zippers on the back of the pants.
The longer silver zipper on the pants mates with a similar zipper on the inside of the waterproof liner of the jacket. Note that these zippers only come into play when you are using the waterproof liners. When running liner free, there is no connection zipper between the jacket and pants. However, the jacket has two adjustable straps on the bottom that run under the crotch and attach in front. They are designed to keep the jacket from riding up in an accident and also would help the pants from falling down, assuming the straps remain intact in a crash. Although have never really been into suspenders, the ones on these pants would also serve to keep them up during a slide. As far as I can tell, the other smaller black zipper provides generic hookup when using other jackets.
The pants have two waterproof pockets, one on each side of the front of the leg that folds over and closes with hook-and-loop fasteners. These pockets also have a dual strip reflective material running along the vertical. There is another reflective strip running up the backside of the lower leg section (see Tekno Pants Back View above).
Next to each pocket is a vertical zipper that can be held open with a snap for venting.
The majority of the pant is made of the DHP 700, with two layers covering your seat. The IRON 1000 covers the knee sections. Double stitching is used in all critical areas.
Bottom of the pants have a zipper and hook-and-loop fastener to allow for expansion over a boot. Note that although there is a zipper, there is material underneath that limits how far the bottom of the pant will expand open.
Sizing, Labels, and Care:
I am 5 11, 175lb and normally wear a 34W-31L in jeans. I purchased a size 52 pant and would say the fit is fairly good throughout. I went with a size Large for the jacket as my size was similar to the reviewer on webBikeWorld and feel their sizing description was accurate (43 inch chest, sleeve length 34 inches).
After the initial examination of the jacket and pants, looked around on the inside for the labels to get an idea of the materials used and where it was made. There are only two labels on the jacket and pants, a CE Level 2 certification label and a sizing label.
Further examination discovered additional labels that are attached to the thermal liners that provide washing instructions, materials used, and that the clothing was made in Romania. The washing instructions call for hand wash only in warm water (30 Deg C) with mild soap and hang dry. This apparently is suggested to help preserve the water repellant treatment on the outside of the pants and jacket.
Performance on the road:
The material is thick and rugged, and the fit fairly snug. It is not as comfortable as my Rallye 3 but then again the materials are significantly more heavy duty. There was decent ventilation while riding in temperatures up into the 70s deg F. However, once the mercury gets into the 80s F, this suit gets significantly warmer. Wouldnt call it an all season suit for our climate of Northern California but definitely three seasons (minus summer). If you live in a place with mild summers, it may cover all four seasons. With the thermal liners in, I was comfortable at freeway speeds with temperatures in the lower 30s. Havent checked out the waterproof ability yet but hope to this winter.
Overall we are very happy with this suit. The only real negative is the less than stellar armor which is only CE Level 1 certified. However the remainder of the suit being CE level 2 certified is reassuring, although no guarantee that you will walk away after a spill. I look forward to a future when an equivalent certification is adopted in the U.S. and clothing manufactures build apparel to meet these standards. I will no doubt have to get a bigger closet at that time.
Purchasing information:
This suit is currently not available from any U.S. dealer and must be purchased overseas. This runs the risk of ordering sight unseen and questions about proper fit. From the comments at the bottom of the webBikeWorld review, I purchased the suit from Motorama in Italy.
It took a couple of weeks, as the pants were initially not in stock and awaited shipment from Clover. I was kept up to date on the status via their website. Once everything was available, it took 9 days to get from Italy to California.
vortmax screwed with this post 10-26-2013 at 10:38 AM
STILL Jim Williams
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Providence, RI
Oddometer: 7,566
This is the one I've been waiting for! Thanks for this review. Much appreciated.
2015 KTM 690 Enduro R, 2008 Yamaha WR250R, 1971 Lambretta DL
Gnarly Adventurer
Joined: Apr 2006
Location: Franklin, TN
Oddometer: 151
Great review. I own a Clover jacket and pants I bought about 10 years ago when I lived in Germany. Still one of the highest quality riding outfits I've owned and it's still holding-up lie new today.
Strange that such a high-quality manufacturer is so little known, even in Europe.
Gnarly Adventurer
Joined: Sep 2010
Oddometer: 127
Is it just me or are the picture links broken?
Beastly Adventurer
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Halifax, NS
Oddometer: 1,533
Thanks for that review! I've been looking at the Clover stuff too, so this is very timely.
You mention you have a closet full of gear, can you provide some comparisons with others you have tried? The comparison with your Rally 3 is helpful, so basically the NP armour is nicer and larger, and the suit is slightly more comfortable, likely due to the lighter materials, correct?
I'm not real sold on the inner WP liner deal, as weather changes fast in these parts and I can envision roadside stripping multiple times in a day. I'm assuming there is little to no chance you could install or remove WP liner with boots on?
The other thing I'm interested in, is the collar. How is the collar for closure, fit, seal and overall comfort? This is a pet peeve with me.
How about sleeve length? Some Euro stuff, and most domestic stuff is built for far more anthropologically evolved persons than myself, who still tends to have slight ape like builds
...and yeah, picture links seem to be broken
Sport Tourer
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Northern California
Oddometer: 36
Sorry folks about the temporary broken links on the pics
STILL Jim Williams
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Providence, RI
Oddometer: 7,566
Hmm. Pictures show fine for me?
Joe, step up. I'm curious
2015 KTM 690 Enduro R, 2008 Yamaha WR250R, 1971 Lambretta DL
Beastly Adventurer
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Halifax, NS
Oddometer: 1,533
Pics are working now! Nice looking suit!!
The pics raise more questions for me, particularly on the different fabrics used. What is the material on the jacket main zipper? It appears different in the pics than the main body. Also the upper arm width adjuster, is that some sort of plastic sleeve it goes through? The knees also seem to be different looking?
The pants look plenty long on you. Would you say they might fit on the long side? Like maybe fit 32-34" inseam?
Beastly Adventurer
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Halifax, NS
Oddometer: 1,533
Sport Tourer
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Northern California
Oddometer: 36
As far as the liner, no you would not be able to remove it with the boots on.
Clover uses a unique design for the collar. They actually have a bolt-snap combo and provide a wrench which you loosen and move the hardware to your preference
The collar adjustment is thus limited by the length of the rail. Mine is set at a comfortable range for me with some slack. Thus air does get in, which helps with ventilation. For colder or wetter weather, would use in conjunction with a balaclava. Again because the material is stiffer and more heavy duty, the collar is not as comfortable as the Rallye 3.
Sleeve length was covered in the review. As mentioned it is slightly tapered on the inside. Length is good for me, but not everyone is built the same.
Sport Tourer
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Northern California
Oddometer: 36
The knees are made of the IRON 1000 material.
The inseam on the 52's is 32 inches (i.e., from the seam in the middle of the crotch to the inside end of a leg). It might appear that they are long but on the bike they fit well. I would say the sizing is similar to the Rallye 3 size 52.
vortmax screwed with this post 10-24-2013 at 07:59 AM
Beastly Adventurer
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Halifax, NS
Oddometer: 1,533
Thanks! One more question, if you don't mind. Can you give some perspective as to the size of the armour? Some of the new stuff is extremely small providing what seems to be limited coverage, particularly when compared to Motoport or even Aerostich stuff.
JTT screwed with this post 10-24-2013 at 03:38 PM
Sport Tourer
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Northern California
Oddometer: 36
Beastly Adventurer
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Halifax, NS
Oddometer: 1,533
Gnarly Adventurer
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: Space Coast, FL
Oddometer: 453
Thanks for the follow-up review on webbikes. Im also looking at the Clover gear. Ive exchanged a few emails with Matt Dymon at Motorcycle Innovations in Canada. Hes willing to ship to the US, but I may order from Clover.
Did you get hit with import fees??
Im also looking at the comparably-priced Rukka Airflow jacket/pants. Both are expensive, but I finally finished my bike search and picked up a cherry 2000 R1100R today . Since its price didnt bust the budget, I can spend more on a new suit.
00 BMR R1100R: in the past:'07 Suzuki DRZ400S; '95 BMW R1100RS- Stolen ; '88 Suzuki Katana 1100; '78 Suzuki GS1000; '76 Yamaha XS750- while parked, was totalled by an Army Gama Goat; '69 Bridgestone 200 Mach II; '69 Honda Trail 50.
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Thread: Destroy and enjoy !
June 10th, 2009 #1
Destroy and enjoy !
Hi All this is my new SB Hope to get new critics and finally keep it updated !
Chimp drawing, Left hand for this one, lot of fun .
This was done based on a sculpture from zbrush central, doesn´t remenber the artist, but it was just a quick study anyway. Lot´s of love for The unknow artist (If you see this send me an email to give your credits).
African woman- Quicksketch, from reference.
This is a character that I´ll model soon, the idea is that he´s a giant calm and relaxed frog monk.
Women study, from reference.
Another study, quick face value, from reference.
Head study, photo reference for this one.
Concept design for my monster tutorial, from imagination.
Side view of the monster to guide the basemesh modeling, the tutorial is avaible at 3dtao.wordpress.com that´s it !
Critics and tips are welcome, other thing if you can suggest photos or themes for me to study, (inspirational stuff too ) please put here, messages at random are welcome as well.Wish you luck, wish me luck, ok?.
see you
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Last edited by Ledd; June 11th, 2009 at 10:06 AM.
Hide this ad by registering as a memberJune 12th, 2009 #2
hey man thanks for stopping by =)
Your stuff is very cool keep studying!
abração =D
June 14th, 2009 #3
Hey! Interesting stuff, I like your pen strokes
Your style is creative, but maybe you should do some studies (I recommend Bridgman)
June 16th, 2009 #4
I like the monkey study the best, there are not that many criss-crossing there. Try to keep your shading clean, follow the forms with your lines while you shade, because it will look messy otherwise. Also on the monster head you did that well. It's also a good idea to look at stuff, and separate the light, middle and dark areas first, and put them down quickly, so you don't do the stuff you did on the last picture, that there's really no contrast there. You can keep it simple, and still show forms with simple shading.
June 19th, 2009 #5
Gabriel cunha- thanks man !
Sarkys- I just followed your advice, I will draw his complete book, he´s really good in breaking the shapes, thanks !
hungryan- this week I´ll try to learn more about values and contrast, thanks for the advice..
Well this are some doodles fromt this week, most of it are from bridgiman´s books and some from photos or imagination. another resource that I discovered this week was this website http://www.posemaniacs.com/ , pretty good to train gesture drawing and learn some poses, one friend of mine that gave me this link (Arthur parreira) and now I´m sharing with everyone.. see you.. critics, comments and randon are welcome !
My SB- Destroy and enjoy! !http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...77#post2294577
My portfolio http://ledd.carbonmade.com/
June 19th, 2009 #6
wonderful studies!! i totally love the way you shaded the head studies and the curves from the pose studies..looking forward to seeing more
Sketchbook - I really appreciate comments and critique, please visit!
Danny_K Icecold
"Good artists are the crappy artists who never gave up!!"
June 25th, 2009 #7
hello friend, like his drawings, most of the monkey, it was very good, should follow the same line. continue working more on top of that trait.
big hug!
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June 27th, 2009 #8
BlackDelphin and ALEXANDRE da Vinci thanks !
Well here there are studies of this week, I decided that I´ll focus on Bridgman´s book, taking some breaks to sketch from photos, life and mind, i prefer to aim only at structure first after I have some confidence I´ll move to shading and painting. I did some silhouette study as well.. cya!
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July 1st, 2009 #9
Hi, Some more studies, and a photo of my my room, see you !
My SB- Destroy and enjoy! !http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...77#post2294577
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July 5th, 2009 #10
Hi there! Nice start, keep up with those studies. I like your frog monk character and the drawing of the old man.
One critique for a possible mistake I've noticed. This monster's ear seems to be too far back on his head. It doesn't come across as intended, that's why I'm pointing it out.
Another thing I noticed, in this drawing you defintly killed proportion. I wonder if you were trying to fit those legs in when you didn't reserve enough space for them? It pays off if you are extra carefull when doing studies from books, because that's when you will be integrating necessary knowledge. It might be better to do less if you find them tiring, but do them well.
I hope this helps some. Good luck!
July 9th, 2009 #11
The studies are looking nice. A good way to check what you've learned from your anatomy studies is to perhaps draw from your imagination and try apply what you learned in your studies to your own work.
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July 18th, 2009 #12fool's errand
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Good studies. You should churn out more of them, and quickly. Maybe do them smaller and use simple shading so you can do alot of them?
I second Bendragon, try to recreate those studies in imaginative compositions.
The box figures are looking like they have torsos that are too short.
Keep at it!
And abstract larches in the neutral light
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July 25th, 2009 #13
Leonor- Thanks for your feedback, I will take special care to proportions and do things calmly and with more time.
Bendragon- Ok, I´ll do that, more from mind
JeanShade- Thanks, I get the idea, I´ll separate long therm studies and quick studies to get more results, and will work more from mind too, thank you !
Now it´s been a long time that I did not post anything, so here it is, mainly bridgman´s studies and one page from mind, I hope to post more often or at least once a week, thank you all for the feedback and I will keep drawing.. see you.
My SB- Destroy and enjoy! !http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...77#post2294577
My portfolio http://ledd.carbonmade.com/
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