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e-bulletin NOVEMBER 2010 ISSUE Welcome to the November edition of the Canterbury e-bulletin. In this e-bulletin: • Video message from Bishop Trevor - A reflection on the spending review • News from Canterbury Diocese - World Aids Day, New Staff, The Gathering 2011, Spiritual Accompaniment, Listed Places of Worship Grant update • Photo caption competition • Meet a Colleague - Emma Sivyer, 'Acting' Vocations' Officer • Diocesan events - Rural ministry workshops • People and vacancies • Diocesan Training - Spirituality Group: 'Ways in Prayer' and Worship and Liturgy Day for Easter • What's On in the parishes - Concerts, talks and Christmas fairs • What's On in the Cathedral - Harry Christophers and The Sixteen concert • News from organisations linked to the Diocese - Public Lecture at CCCU with Claire Foster, Folkestone Churches Winter Shelter update • Church of England news round-up • Notices from national organisations - Wolfson Grants and Advent resources • 'Focus On' - Canterbury Diocese's men and women elected to General Synod Bishop Trevor's Video Message As the country works its way through the Spending Review, Bishop Trevor asks what will happen to impoverished and vulnerable people? www.canterburydiocese.org/multimedia/video/bishoptrevor News from Canterbury Diocese General Synod Three members of the clergy and three members of the laity were voted as Canterbury Diocese's representatives in the General Synod election held on 11 October. Full details of the vote and information on our new representatives at: www.canterburydiocese.org/focuson/november10 World Aids Day A service for World Aids Day will be held on Tuesday 30 November 2010, 7.30pm in the Crypt of Canterbury Cathedral - all welcome. More information: www.canterburydiocese.org/worldaidsday/FLESH.pdf Spaces Remaining on the Child Protection Seminar - November 4th 4 November 2010, 9.00am - 1.00pm, ISC, Canterbury Cathedral There is a rare opportunity to attend a seminar led by Donald Findlater, the Director of Research and Development with the Lucy Faithfull Foundation, on child abuse and the issue of forgiveness. Spaces are still available at this ticket only event (cost £15 - CME friendly). More information and bookings: www.canterburydiocese.org/booking/seminar4.11.2010.htm Report on the National Deanery Conference Molly Poulter, Lay Chair of North Downs, reports back on the National Deanery Conference held in Swanwick at the start of October. Molly said: "I think the emphasis throughout this conference was that structures are not significant - but we must get back to what the church is all about - proclaiming the good news of Jesus Christ." Full report at: www.canterburydiocese.org/nationaldeaneryconference/reportoct2010.pdf 2011: Can we live our faith 24/7? During 2011 churches in the diocese will be encouraged to look together at what it means to be a disciple of Jesus Christ. A consultation meeting is being held on the morning of Saturday 27 November in the Chapel of Canterbury Christ Church, to explore ideas, share existing practice and see how we might together live for Christ 24/7. Spaces are now limited so please reserve yours soon: www.canterburydiocese.org/247liveit The Gathering 2011 Early details of The Gathering 2011 have now been released. The event will take place on Friday 16 and Saturday 17 September 2011 at Canterbury Cathedral. Speakers include Frank Field MP, Paula Gooder, Adrian Plass and from the Iona Community, John Bell. Like last year, the event will include a 'conference day' on the Friday, a repeat of the sell-out 'In Conversation with the Archbishop' on Friday evening and a day full of activities for all ages on the Saturday. More details at: www.canterburydiocese.org/thegathering Children's and Young People's Ministry Adviser starts at Diocesan House Murray Wilkinson started in the new role of Children's and Young People's Ministry Adviser at the start of October. Find out more about Murray's early work and also about residential courses for paid and voluntary youth and children's officers at: www.canterburydiocese.org/childrenandyoungpeople Murray is keen to make contact with all Employed Youth and/or Children's Workers and is available via: 01227 459401 or email@example.com Assistant Director of Education (Schools Organisation) Announced Revd Simon Foulkes has been appointed as Assistant Director of Education (School Organisation) from 1st February 2011. More information at: www.canterburydiocese.org/schools Church Choirs, Concerts and Workshops for Organists The second 'Music Support Group' newsletter contains news of a November workshop for organists, an opportunity for your church choir to sing Haydn's Creation and a list of musical events across the Diocese: www.canterburydiocese.org/musicians/newsletter/october2010.htm. Exploring a Calling to Spiritual Accompaniment - closing date extended to 20th December Rob Mackintosh, Director of Ministry & Training, writes . . "There is a need to support both ordained and lay ministers in a deeper awareness of the presence of God in their lives, a growing discernment of God's will, and a clear link with the greater mission of God in the world. Responding to this need, the second Spiritual Accompaniment Programme will begin in February 2011, offered jointly by Canterbury and Rochester dioceses. The aim is to develop a group of both lay and ordained practitioners called to this ministry to become confident spiritual accompaniers." Year 1 of the two-year programme will take place over six Saturdays (February 12th, April 16th, June 11th, September 10th, October 29th and December 10th) An application form, supporting letters and a Programme Brochure which describes the course, with dates and venues, is available at: www.canterburydiocese.org/spiritualaccompaniment The cost of the course is £220pa. CME (for clergy and Readers) may be requested. More information from Rose Dale: firstname.lastname@example.com tel. 01227 459401. Bishop Trevor to give Advent talks in Thanet Bishop Trevor will be giving three advent talks in Thanet Deanery during December. The talks, entitled 'Waiting for the God who comes', will take place at St George's Church of England Foundation School on Thursdays 2nd, 9th and 16th of December at 7.30pm - everyone welcome http://www.canterburydiocese.org/whatson/parish/waitingforthegodwhocomes_A4.pdf. Lightening conductor theft warning Thieves have stolen one of the lightening conductors from the Tower of St Faith's Church Maidstone. Kent Police report that there have been many 'cable' thefts recently and churches are encouraged to take extra measures to protect theirs. Listed Places of Worship Grant update In October the Department for Culture Media and Sport announced that the Listed Places of Worship Grants Scheme will continue for a further four years after its present period of operation expires at the end of March 2011. The additional concessions, however, on professional fees, organs and bells, secured in 2006 and already withdrawn will not be re-instated. More info at: www.lpwscheme.org.uk Photo Caption Competition Winners for last month's photo caption: 1. The vicar begins to suspect the spiritual healing day she was sent on is being run by quacks - Jenny Armstrong 2. Tall man with rose-coloured spectacles has to choose between his wife, his vicar and a huge black plastic duck - Len Budd 3. Pingu was a very little bird and a very little bird was he - and he couldn't climb into a sycamore tree for the Archbishop to see - Peter Cornish For more entries visit: www.canterburydiocese.org/caption/october2010 November competition The photo for this month's competition was submitted by Revd Peter Cornish who says: "I took this in August at the entrance to an underground car park in Budapest. I know it's hardly in the diocese, but we all know there's plenty of imagination and wit in Canterbury!" To rise to Peter's challenge please send your caption to: firstname.lastname@example.com View larger image at: www.canterburydiocese.org/caption/november2010 If you have any photos requiring a caption, please send them to Emily Shepherd Meet a Colleague New 'Acting' Vocations Officer Until the end of 2011, Emma Sivyer, a current member of the Vocation Advisors Team, will be working one day a week overseeing the vocations work with Peter Ingrams, the Local Ministries Officer. More information at: www.canterburydiocese.org/meetacolleague/emmasivyer/index.htm Diocesan Events Kent God's Acre Project Workshops - Management Plans Workshop Thursday 18 November. A practical workshop run in partnership with Mid-Kent Downs Countryside Partnership, to advise and create a management plan for your churchyard. Expert advisers will be available to help you. The cost of the course is £10. The venue is St Barnabas Centre, Boughton. To register your place contact: email@example.com or 01795 890487. Kent God's Acre Project Workshops - Researching your Churchyard Friday 19 November. A day course which includes a visit the Cathedral archives to give you the practical tools to help you research your churchyard, deciphering headstones and much more! The cost is £15 per person to include lunch. The venue is Diocesan House, Canterbury. Contact: firstname.lastname@example.com or 01795 890487. Rural Practitioners Group The next Rural Practitioners Group will meet at Ringwould, Kingsdown, Ripple & Sutton by Dover on Tuesday 9 November, 10.00am - 3.00pm. The day will include a variety of 'high spots' of the benefice with lunch at a local pub. To book your place contact: firstname.lastname@example.com or 01795890487 Living Well Events A number of events are planned for the autumn: www.the-living-well.org.uk/living-well-programme.asp People and Vacancies For latest appointments and notices visit: www.canterburydiocese.org/peopleandplaces Diocesan Training Finance Surgeries Book and Pay online at www.canterburydiocese.org/booking/parishofficerstraining.htm for the following courses • Finance Surgery Tuesday 9 November 2010, 7.00pm - 9.30pm, St Mary's, Sittingbourne Rob Trice, Liz Marsh, Clare Larter • Finance Surgery Wednesday 17 November 2010, 7.00pm - 9.30pm, St Mary's, Dover Rob Trice, Liz Marsh, Clare Larter Preaching the Liturgical Year: Matthew - with Dr Susan Durber Saturday 20 November 2010, 9.30am to 4.00pm at St Mary Bredin, Canterbury. • Programme Cost £15 (CME available for clergy & readers). Please bring your own lunch. Booking www.canterburydiocese.org/booking/preachingtheliturgicalyearnov2010.htm Canterbury Diocesan Interim Spirituality Group 'Ways in Prayer' Saturday 12 March 2011, 10.00am - 3.30pm Franciscan International Study Centre, Canterbury To include a choice of three workshops: • Music and Prayer with Music Therapist and Theologian Janet MacDonald, • Praying with icons with Julia Butterworth, former Diocesan Adviser in Spirituality • Are there patterns in our personal stories with Brian Chalmers, scientist and priest • The Spirituality of Hospitality with Chaplain to the Living Well Amanda Evans • Sacred Space with Peter Ashman, Rector in Elham and Anne Rees, Spiritual Director • Making Connections - Exploring the links between the body, the mind and the spirit in our prayer with Helen Connell, Jacqui Cotteril, and Michael Morris. More information, programme and booking form online at: www.canterburydiocese.org/waysinprayer/index.htm Worship & Liturgy Day 'Celebrating Easter' For Clergy, Readers and ALM Worship Leaders Saturday 19th March 2011, 10.00am to 3.30pm Venue: The Upper Room, St Mary Bredin, Canterbury Cost: CME for Clergy & Readers £15. No charge to ALM Worship Leaders With The Revd Professor Paul Bradshaw, Professor of Liturgy at the University of Notre Dame, Indiana and Christopher Irvine, Canon Librarian at Canterbury Cathedral. Bookings and more info: www.canterburydiocese.org/booking/celebratingeaster18march2011.htm Places still available on the Basic Enneagram course The Enneagram is a tool of compassion which describes nine different personality styles helping people to make sense of their own personalities and to access possibilities for change within themselves. Places are still available on a weekend course for those with no previous knowledge of the Enneagram: Friday 26th - Sunday 28th November 2010 at Stelling Minnis, Nr Canterbury (6 miles south), Times: Friday 1930-2130; Saturday 1000-1600; Sunday 1430-1630. Cost: £45 including books. Information from: www.canterburydiocese.org/training/enneagramcourseleaflet2010.pdf Date for your diary: Bishop's Day for Clergy Friday 18th March 2011 What's On in the Parishes Events in November and early December include: • Thursday 4 November 2010, 7.30pm, The Phoenix Choir in Concert, St Laurence Church, High Street St Lawrence, Ramsgate • Saturday 6 November 2010, starting at 2.00pm, "Village Organist" workshop in association with St. Giles International Organ School, St Nicholas Church Pluckley. Details: www.rco.org.uk/organ_school.php • Saturday 6 and Sunday 7 November 2010, 50th Anniversary Weekend at St Martin's Church Shepway, including concert on Saturday at 7.00pm with the Kent Police Choir • Tuesday 9 November 2010, 12 noon, Organ recital, St Leonard's Church, Hythe • Friday 12 November 2010, 7.00pm, Grand Charity Auction, Woodstock Sports & Social Club, Sittingbourne, ME9 8AG • Saturday 13 November 2010, 9.30am - 12 noon, The Big Biddenden Breakfast with Fairtrade stall at All Saints, Biddenden • Friday 19 November 2010, 7.00pm, Book Launch with readings, drinks and desserts, Tenterden Zion Baptist Hall • Saturday 20 November 2010, 10.00am - 2.00pm, Christmas Fayre in the village Hall, West Hougham • Saturday 20 November 2010, 10.00am - 2.30pm, The Great Leeds Book Sale, St Nicholas' Church, Leeds • Saturday 20 November 2010, 1.30pm, "BLITZED" - A film made by Newlands School, St Laurence Parish Hall, High Street St Lawrence, Ramsgate • Saturday 27 November 2010, 7.00pm, "Sure on this shining night" - A Choral Evening, St Nicholas Church, Sandhurst • Saturday 27 November 2010, 7.30pm, Bach and Vivaldi Candlelit Extravaganda, St Mary of Charity, Faversham • Thursdays 2, 9, 16 December 2010, 7.30pm, Waiting for the God who comes - Advent talks with the Bishop of Dover, The Right Reverend Trevor Willmott, St George's Church of England Foundation School, Westwood Road, Broadstairs. CT10 2LH For full details visit: www.canterburydiocese.org/whatson/parish To include your event on our website and the 'What's On' list, please complete the online form: www.canterburydiocese.org/whatson/parish/submitevent/index.htm Cathedral Events Services and events in November: www.canterburydiocese.org/whatson/cathedralnovember2010.pdf Harry Christophers and The Sixteen to give Christmas Concert Harry Christophers and The Sixteen will return to Canterbury Cathedral to perform in the Cathedral Nave on Saturday 11 December 2010 at 7.30pm. The concert, "The Angel Gabriel", celebrates the Christmas message and features music by Praetorius, Byrd, Guerrero, Victoria, and Warlock. The Sixteen, "Voices of Classic FM", are recognised as one of the world's great ensembles, with many awards and recordings to their name. Information from: email@example.com News from organisations linked to the Diocese Dover Detainee Visitor Group: 'Detained Lives' Roadshow A Debate about indefinite detention, with an introduction from Bishop Trevor will be held on Wednesday 17 November 2010, 6.15pm - 8.00pm at the University of Kent, Keynes Lecture Theatre 1 - free. www.canterburydiocese.org/whatson/detainedlivesroadshow17nov2010.pdf The Folkestone Churches Winter Shelter The Folkestone Churches Winter Shelter will be opening its doors again this winter on the 6th December to offer a hot meal and warm bed for the night. The project ran a very successful inaugural shelter last year using 7 local churches and over 200 volunteers from across the denominations in Folkestone. Colin Bridgland from Ashford is the new Project Manager of the project. If you are interested in supporting the project financially or by volunteering then please contact the shelter at firstname.lastname@example.com or 01303-850733 'Lamps' - a call for intercessors 'Lamps' Ministry is a call to intercessors to shine more brightly than ever and to answer the Lord's call for deep and powerful intercession. More information about the 'Lamps' Ministry, which originated in East Sussex, is available at: www.canterburydiocese.org/whatson/lampspress.pdf Church House Communications Training: How to get your church noticed 1 December 10am-5pm, Church House, London SW1P 3AZ £105 for delegates from Church of England organisations Training event which covers: writing and implementing a communications strategy, making church buildings welcoming, creating effective promotional materials and maximising local media and the internet. For more information and online booking please visit www.commstraining.cofe.anglican.org/2010/gcn.php or call 020 7898 1465. Public Lecture: Ethics for the 21st Century: A Hero's Journey with Claire Foster Wednesday 10 December, 6.00pm, Old Sessions House, Og46, North Holmes Campus, Longport, Christ Church University. Claire Foster is a Lay Canon at St Paul's Cathedral, and was formerly National Policy Advisor on Science, Medicine, Technology & Environmental Issues to the Archbishops' Council of the Church of England. Details from: email@example.com Church of England News Round-up News from the Church of England in October - www.cofe.anglican.org/news News from the Archbishops - www.archbishopofyork.org/119 Notices from National Organisations Wolfson Grants available for Fabric repairs The Church Buildings Council administers applications for grants from the Wolfson Foundation towards fabric repairs to Anglican Churches. Applications for grants are considered on the grounds of the architectural and historic importance of this building (usually Grade 1), urgency of work required and the ability of the church to contribute financially to the scheme. For more information and the on-line application form please go to www.churchcare.co.uk/funding.php?IM Kent Refugee Help - Free Training Day Saturday 11 December 2010, 10.0am - 3.00pm at The Friends Meeting House, 6 The Friars, Canterbury, CT1 2AS. The training day will focus on Medical issues for Immigration Detainees and Former Detainees. Details from: Kate Adams; Email firstname.lastname@example.com Mobile 07826395433 The Spectator Debate: Church Buildings are too expensive to maintain, they should be sold off Wednesday 24 November 2010, 6.45pm - 8.30pm, Freemasons' Hall, 60 Great Queen Street, WC2B 5AZ. A debate chaired by Andrew Neil. For the motion: Comedian Arabella Weir and Columnist Rod Liddle, Against: Architecture Correspondent Jonathan Glancey and Canon Chancellor of St Paul's Cathedral Dr Giles Fraser. Tickets £30. Info from 020 7961 0044, quoting reference DEBATE10 or email email@example.com or visit www.spectator.co.uk/events Two workshops on Church funding Two workshops are being held to help churches improve their funding. The workshops take place at Church House Westminster and are run by the Christian Consultancy Action Planning. 'Funding Capital projects for Churches' takes place on the 10 December 2010 and 'Growing the income of your Church' on 6 December 2010. Each workshop starts at 10.00am and finishes at 4.00pm and costs £80 including lunch. Bookings via: www.actionplanning.co.uk/churches Celtic Retreats on Iona There are two opportunities in the Spring to enjoy a retreat on Iona between 4th- 8th April or Sunday 10th April - Thursday 14th. The tour begins in York and includes three nights on Iona. The price (inclusive of all travel to and from York, one night in a hotel and three nights on Iona (half board) is £493. Brochures are available on 01482 562455 or downloadable from www.ukltg.com Is it I? Vocations Day for men and women from the Catholic Tradition of the Church of England, Saturday 4th December, 10.00am - 4.00pm, St Matthew's Church, Westminster Great Peter Street, London. Register by emailing: firstname.lastname@example.com or call: 0207 222 3704 St John's Nottingham Advent Book 2010 Looking for Justice…daily readings for Advent and Christmas includes a weekly resource for group reflection by popular demand. All proceeds from sale of the books go towards student bursaries and the College development fund. Price £4.99 per copy (post free in UK). Copies from: www.stjohns-nottm.ac.uk/advent-book-201 Hold a Christmas Service in aid of Shelter Churches are being asked to hold a special service and collection in aid of Shelter this Christmas. Visit the website to download the free Christmas service booklet, containing ideas and worship materials for all ages to link the nativity story and the modern plight of homelessness. For more information, contact, Amy Russell, on 0344 515 2130 or by email at email@example.com CMS Resource for Advent - Share the Light Share the Light is about taking time at Christmas to share the light of Jesus with the local community by literally giving light (a candle) to someone, praying for them, and inviting them to be part of a Share the Light service at your church. Details at: www.cms-uk.org/default.aspx?tabid=241 The Diocese of Canterbury is not responsible for the content of external internet sites or attachments.
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How can I go beyond "fallen away Catholic" to "not Catholic"?
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I was raised in the Roman Catholic Church. I no longer believe most of its doctrine. How can I get present Roman Catholics to say that I am "not Catholic" and not a "fallen away Catholic." I will not ever return to being in the RCC. I would rather saw my own head off than be back in the RCC. Tell me if I am wrong - the RCC is not the mafia - right - once you are in the mafia, you can never leave...is that what the present Roman Catholics believe...you can never leave the RCC? I want to be considered "not Catholic" and not a "fallen away Catholic!"
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2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser Q&A
2007 Toyota FJ Cruiser Question: Obtaining a Roll bar/cage
Has Anyone fouund a roll bar/cage which does not involve welding in the passenger compartment? I lived with my CJ which was really messed up by spatter burn for years! - gunnerDave
Answer 1
installing a roll bar requires welding for installation. bolting the barr allows for failure of the bolts in a roll over. it makes the job right. why dont you want it welded?? Roy - mastertech6371
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Richard Uschold
I created an ars. I looked at it with the l(ist) command and I also looked at it with the get command.
The values do not match! I set a value of "5.79781". The l(ist) command reports that same value, but
the get command reports: "5.797810000000000130171429"
This is not a decimal to binary and back, conversion error. That might give one LSB error like:
5.797810000000000000000001 or
It will NOT give 9 or ten random digits at the end!
I do not know if this is actually causing any problems, but I would not be surprised!
I realize these errors are below parts per trillion, won't likely be visible on image made from them.
Please explain.
Here are the three commands:
mged> in fontTst-A1.Q.s ars 4 6 3.0 5.79781 0.0 3.0 6.37757 0.5 3.0 5.49726 0.2071 3.0 5.49726 -0.2071 3.0 6.37757 -0.5 4.29504 2.7071 0.5 3.8811 3.0 0.2071 3.8811 3.0 -0.2071 4.29504 2.7071 -0.5 1.70496 2.7071 0.5 2.1189 3.0 0.2071 2.1189 3.0 -0.2071 1.70496 2.7071 -0.5 3.0 6.37757 0.5 3.0 5.49726 0.2071 3.0 5.49726 -0.2071 3.0 6.37757 -0.5 4.02242 2.9 0.0
mged> l fontTst-A1.Q.s
fontTst-A1.Q.s: arbitrary rectangular solid (ARS)
6 curves, 4 points per curve
Curve 0:
(3, 5.79781, 0)
(3, 5.79781, 0)
(3, 5.79781, 0)
(3, 5.79781, 0)
Curve 1:
(3, 6.37757, 0.5)
(3, 5.49726, 0.2071)
(3, 5.49726, -0.2071)
(3, 6.37757, -0.5)
Curve 2:
(4.29504, 2.7071, 0.5)
(3.8811, 3, 0.2071)
(3.8811, 3, -0.2071)
(4.29504, 2.7071, -0.5)
Curve 3:
(1.70496, 2.7071, 0.5)
(2.1189, 3, 0.2071)
(2.1189, 3, -0.2071)
(1.70496, 2.7071, -0.5)
Curve 4:
(3, 6.37757, 0.5)
(3, 5.49726, 0.2071)
(3, 5.49726, -0.2071)
(3, 6.37757, -0.5)
Curve 5:
(4.02242, 2.9, 0)
(4.02242, 2.9, 0)
(4.02242, 2.9, 0)
(4.02242, 2.9, 0)
ars NC 6 PPC 4 C0 { { 3 5.797810000000000130171429 0 } { 3 5.797810000000000130171429 0 } { 3 5.797810000000000130171429 0 } { 3 5.797810000000000130171429 0 } } C1 { { 3 6.377570000000000405293576 0.5 } { 3 5.497259999999999813269369 0.2071000000000000063060668 } { 3 5.497259999999999813269369 -0.2071000000000000063060668 } { 3 6.377570000000000405293576 -0.5 } } C2 { { 4.295040000000000190993887 2.707100000000000061817218 0.5 } { 3.881099999999999994315658 3 0.2071000000000000063060668 } { 3.881099999999999994315658 3 -0.2071000000000000063060668 } { 4.295040000000000190993887 2.707100000000000061817218 -0.5 } } C3 { { 1.704960000000000031050718 2.707100000000000061817218 0.5 } { 2.118900000000000005684342 3 0.2071000000000000063060668 } { 2.118900000000000005684342 3 -0.2071000000000000063060668 } { 1.704960000000000031050718 2.707100000000000061817218 -0.5 } } C4 { { 3 6.377570000000000405293576 0.5 } { 3 5.497259999999999813269369 0.2071000000000000063060668 } { 3 5.497259999999999813269369 -0.2071000000000000063060668 } { 3 6.377570000000000405293576 -0.5 } } C5 { { 4.022420000000000328554961 2.899999999999999911182158 0 } { 4.022420000000000328554961 2.899999999999999911182158 0 } { 4.022420000000000328554961 2.899999999999999911182158 0 } { 4.022420000000000328554961 2.899999999999999911182158 0 } }
Richard Uschold
This still fails in brlcad version 7.16.10. I found it if ver 7.12, and was hoping it was corrected.
Sean Morrison
This is definitely not a bug. This shouldn't even be unexpected.
The precision of the get command is higher than the default computation tolerance ( 0.0005mm ) as well as the list command's printing precision. Moreover, the differences you're seeing are 15 decimal places out, which is at the expression epsilon of an IEEE double precision floating point representation. Simply storing a value into a register and reading it back can induce changes that far out.
It's worth noting that the gets command reports what is saved to disk and is merely printing with excessive precision. Plus, the differences you're noticing are on the fermi scale (1.0^-15). The measurements values, if significant, differ by about the width of a single molecule.
Most programs including other CAD software mask floating point representation details by simply not printing so many digits.
It's not a problem. :)
Richard Uschold
Sean said:
>>> "Simply storing a value into a register and reading it back can induce changes that far out. "
I'm sorry, but any computer that does that is broken! Any software that does that has a bug! I designed computer hardware for many years, and I have written a fair bit of software too. You seem to imply that some parts of your software write less precision than other parts read. Well, that is the bug, right there!
As to weather it's worth fixing or not, that's your call. I agree that is is very unlikely to cause any real world problems, and you may well have many issues with higher priority. But it is still a bug!
Sean Morrison
I made no such implication regarding how BRL-CAD reads/writes with respect to precision. We have extensive controls in place throughout the code to reduce or eliminate/avoid the accumulation of significant error due to the floating point unit, but there is only so much that can be done. Moreover, as a computation system, there is no guarantee offered below the default computation tolerance. By definition, numeric changes are OK if they are within that tolerance.
If you can isolate a problem with tolerance management in our source code where there is a change occurring below what the hardware will guarantee per IEEE 754, I'll be surprised and *delighted* to accommodate a fix.
As a corollary, there are plenty of numbers that simply cannot be faithfully represented using floating point arithmetic (e.g., 0.1) regardless of precision or tolerance. Doing computations with numbers that cannot be exactly represented can cascade a tolerance change as well. That's just a couple of several possible sources of tolerance injection that can occur automatically and unavoidably. These are completely outside our control and a characteristic of floating point representation.
Like I said, we go to extensive lengths to manage this, but it's unavoidable (particularly for x86 hardware) without using an alternative (and absurdly slower) numeric representation like fixed point arithmetic.
If you find that there's something else going on, I'd be delighted to apply a fix.. otherwise, there's no constructive point in arguing over what is considered a bug versus hardware limitations versus undesirable compilation behavior.
Richard Uschold
I well understand that computer math is not perfect and has limitations. I can't say if I ever read the IEEE 754, it may not have even been written 20 years ago when I read some IEEE number specs. I will say I don't recall any statements like your assertion: "Simply storing a value into a register and reading it back can induce changes that far out." I would, in fact, be quite shocked if any computer spec would say such a thing. I'm not talking about doing any math, just writing a register and reading it back!
There is NO MATH happening in my test case, either. I just set the data points in an ars and read them back.
I still claim that if a program can't do that, there is a problem.
Daniel Roßberg
The program tries to convert your input into a binary representation. But it is not possible to convert every finite decimal representation into a finite binary representation. E.g. the binary representation of 0.1 (= 1/2 * 1/5) would lead to an infinite series of 0s and 1s (which represents powers of 1/2). Now, if you take the first 8 bytes of the binary representation and convert them back to a decimal number you may see a value very similar to your original input with some "random numbers" at the end. That's because your number was converted to a final series of powers of 1/2.
BTW, saying "series of powers of 2" would be true too. On the right side of the point are the negative powers. Very similar to the decimal numbers.
About the register thing:
I would not say "Simply storing a value into a register and reading it back can induce changes that far out." However, doing the same operation twice and comparing the results may give you a "not equal". The reason is the size of the register: 10 bytes. The memory representation of a double is only 8 bytes. E.g.
- doing an operation
- writing the result to the memory
- doing the operation again
- keeping this result in the register
- reading back the first result into another register
- comparing the two registers with the results
may give you a "not equal".
I.e. I would say: "Simply storing a value from a register into memory and reading it back can induce changes that far out."
Richard Uschold
As stated in my first post, this is not a decimal to binary and back, conversion problem. That will give at most ONE decimal digit of error, not the NILE error digits I see.
Your register to memory problems make sense. It's reassuring to know that we all agree that computer memories are extremely reliable.I was beginning to wonder if I had stumbled into "The Twilight Zone!" Though, this is not my problem, either., But it seem to be the exact reverse of my problem.
I set a value of "5.79781" with a "in" command. The l(ist) command reports that same value, but the get command reports: "5.797810000000000130171429"
I wrote a simple script to test how tcl deals with number precision.
----- numTest.tcl --------------------------------
proc numTest {num} {
puts " num ==$num=="
set numx1
puts " num * 1 ==$numx1=="
set numd3
puts " num / 3 ==$numd3=="
set numd3x3
puts "(num/3)*3 ==$numd3x3=="
set numd7
puts " num / 7 ==$numd7==\n"
numTest 1.2
numTest 5.797810000000000130171429
Running in brlcad or a bash shell, gives the same result:
mged> source numTst.tcl
num ==1.2==
num * 1 ==1.2==
num / 3 ==0.39999999999999997==
(num/3)*3 ==1.2==
num / 7 ==0.17142857142857143==
num ==5.797810000000000130171429==
num * 1 ==5.79781==
num / 3 ==1.9326033333333335==
(num/3)*3 ==5.79781==
num / 7 ==0.8282585714285714==
I note that the default precision is 16 decimal digits. The tcl manual says it uses c double floating point for the math. Your get command is printing out an extra NINE digits, above this.
I also note, that the line: "num ==5.797810000000000130171429==", and the one after it demonstrate that tcl does NOT do the string to binary conversion until some math is required. Tcl does manage to loose the extraneous digits.
If, as you say, register to memory transfers LOOSE a couple of bytes, where does this extra data come from?
Again, I point out, that an "in" command followed by a "get" command does NOT require any math (except, perhaps, decimal - binary - decimal conversion)
Daniel Roßberg
What are you trying to prove? That 3 * 0.39999999999999997 is 1.2? It is evident in your example that there is a difference between the output of puts and the internal representation of your variables. How much is this difference? Find it out!
E.g. you may type in a tclsh:
set num 1.2
puts $num # as expected
format "%.16f" $num # very nice, I can see the smile in your face: :-)
format "%.17f" $num # what's this? surely only a small perturbation
format "%.50f" $num # and this is what we are talking about
Richard Uschold
What I am trying to prove, is that BRLCAD is saving garbage data at the end of the number.
I tried the format "%.50f" $num.
num ==1.39999999999999991118215802998747676610946655273438==
Clearly, the data below the 16 th decimal position is just nonsense! I do find it VERY strange that the garbage data is anything other then "000…"! Just for fun, I ran the same program in perl. It gave the EXACT same garbage data down to the 50 th decimal position! I don't know why the conversion routine behaves this way, but this is not BRLCAD's problem.
This does suggest what BRLCAD is doing wrong, though. It would seem, that they are writing data with a format similar to: "%.24g", while it is clearly, not justified to use any more then 16 digits below the decimal point.
Sean Morrison
My first reply to your concern stated that the command "is merely printing with excessive precision". Most programs mask floating point representation details by simply not printing so many digits.
Regular user commands (such as the ist command) truncate their printing precision to a reasonable level to avoid having this extended discussion and explanation. It's understandably surprising if you've not come across it before. The command, however, is really intended to be a developer command, so it does things differently and that's intentional. It doesn't, however, make it wrong.
I think this horse has been beaten pretty dead. If you are interested in further reading on the subject, there's a great paper entitled "What Every Computer Scientist Should Know About Floating-Point Arithmetic" that goes into depth about how the format is represented, stored, digits of precision, rounding errors, and much more in depth. The common format in prevalent use is the IEEE 754 representation, so there's further useful reading there as well.
You've reported plenty of other valid issues and bugs that deserve attention. I'd suggest the discussion be focused on those topics.


text:
Koçtaş is now the number one home improvement retailer in Turkey.
Preliminary results presentation, 26 March 2013
Screwfix Sell Side Trip on 12 October 2012
Koçtaş, Kingfisher's joint venture in Turkey, is now the number one home improvement retailer in the country.
It has pioneered a flexible, multi-format strategy and now has over 40 stores.
* Data correct: 31 January 2015
Products in store*
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More than 15,000 customers visit Koçtaş's Sisli store in Istanbul each week


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About This Video
A clip/trailer of Paranormal ActivityTags : Paranormal Activity
Type : Movie Trailer
Views : 6878
This Movie Info
Paranormal Activity
Release Date :September 25, 2009 Limited
Studio :Paramount Pictures
Director :Oren Peli
Starring :Katie Featherston, Micah Sloat, Mark Friedrichs, Amber Armstrong
After a young, middle class couple moves into what seems like a typical suburban "starter" tract house, they become increasingly disturbed by a presence that may or may not be somehow demonic but is certainly most active in the middle of the night. Especially when they sleep. Or try to.
dwayne bonello i love this movies and i will them paranormal activiy 1,2,3,4 and i will give 5 stars!posted by dwayne bonello on Oct 15, 2012
it is goodposted by dave on Aug 24, 2010
pretty good flickposted by trance on Jan 07, 2010
Scariest movie I have ever seen. I was shaking by the time it was over.posted by SarahD on Nov 07, 2009
Looks like it gonna give Ghost Hunters a new followingposted by nospanku on Sep 30, 2009


text:
Auction price: Register or sign-in to see quarterly averages
or visit the Wine Market Journal
Drink between: 2010 - 2022 (Add My Dates)
1,251 Tasting Notes
3,040 Tasting Notes
Pale lemon/straw colour.
Light fragrance of white flowers and lemon zest. Not intense.
Light-Med intensity, decent acidity with flavours of soft peach, lemon curd and a hint of honeysuckle, lacks a bit of zip. Finish falls away quickly, some residual oak spice but little real resonance. Frankly a bit disappointing but maybe not unexpected for the vintage.
Medium yellow. Three phases. First a rich, tropical entry with fat pineapple and ripe citrus fruit. Then, transiently, a leaner, more saline aspect with florality. Finally, somewhat clunky wood rules. I've never had a great experience with this wine. If I were to describe it in an equation of sorts, I would say that it reflects Raveneau > vintage >> Chablis style and character.
Quite typical Chablis and Raveneau, but has a slight dullness of acidity especially on the finish that I think comes from the vintage, quite fragrant, flint and shell, a hint of brown butter, young but not totally fresh.
Unique once again in its '06-ness, more a round classically chardonnay vs. the minerally seashell and truffle Raveneau usually is. Still a lot of cinnamon, pear, gunsmoke and white floral notes. A bit softer with some grapefruit and spice.
Amazing. Tart and structured like a great Chablis with a little wood/hazelnut to round it out. Nose of the sea, lime, nut, cheese, and light tarragon. Sharp and tart palate of seashells, lime/lemon, flint, herbs, hazelnut, unripe pear skin, and sweet tarts. Probably the best pairing with dungeness I've ever had. Did not budge the 4-5 hours opened. Long life ahead. Wish I could afford more Raveneau!!!


text:
- Description
- View Full Specifications
- Year:
- 1996
- Length:
- 55'
- Engine/Fuel Type:
- Twin / diesel
- Located In:
- Chichester, West Sussex, United Kingdom
- Hull Material:
- Fiberglass
- 76626-2655118
- Current Price:
- £ 195,000 Tax Paid (US$ 303,810)
- Sale Pending
1996 Fairline Squadron 55 in first class condition. 'From Nothing' has benefitted from a complete refit and looks fantastic, she has a very high specification with twin Volvo 615hp diesel engines, maintained to a high standard and a full suite of Raymarine navigation equipment including Radar, Chart Plotter and autopilot.
The accommodation on this Fairline Squadron 55 includes a spacious lower saloon and an upper saloon dinette, a double master cabin with en-suite, two twin guest cabins with separate toilet and shower accessed from the main hall or from a private door to port guest cabin, an aft crew cabin and a well equipped galley with adjoining utility room with washer dryer and dishwasher.
The fly Bridge has been totally transformed, with electric grill, wash hand basin and fridge under, the seating has been upgraded from the original specification, with three helm seats in leather, and the guest seating has reclinable loungers (Electric), and adjustable table also electric. Additional benefits are a generator, water maker, ice maker, Blue L.E.D Mood lights, three diesel heaters and a complete entertainment system, with Sky HD TV. Price Reduced, very motivated seller, contact us with offers!!
Please contact Ben Stevens at +44 (0) 7887 652 090
Additional Specs, Equipment and Information:
Boat Name
From Nothing
Builder: Fairline
Designer: Bernard Olesinki
Flag of Registry: United Kingdom
LOA: 55 ft 11 in
Beam: 15 ft 3 in
Maximum Draft: 3 ft 8 in
Displacement: 20000 kgs
Total Power: 1230 HP
Engine 1:
Engine Brand: Volvo
Year Built: 1996
Engine Model: TAMD22P-A
Engine Type: Inboard
Engine/Fuel Type: Diesel
Location: Port
Engine Hours: 960
Drive Type: Direct Drive
Engine Power: 615 HP
Engine 2:
Engine Brand: Volvo
Year Built: 1996
Engine Model: TAMD222P-A
Engine Type: Inboard
Engine/Fuel Type: Diesel
Location: Starboard
Engine Hours: 960
Drive Type: Direct Drive
Engine Power: 615 HP
Cruising Speed: 20 kph
Maximum Speed: 27 kph
Fresh Water Tanks: 2 Fiberglass (127)
Fuel Tanks: 2 Aluminum (580)
Number of twin berths: 2
Number of double berths: 1
Number of cabins: 3
Number of heads: 2
Number of bathrooms: 2
Seating Capacity: 14
VHF - Simrad VHF/DSC x 2
Repeater(s) - Raymarine E120, ST7002 Autopilot, ST60 Tridata & ST60 Graphic
Log-speedometer - ST60 Tridata
Autopilot - Raymarine ST7002
Radar - Open array
TV set - 50
Plotter - Raymarine E120
CD player - Bose surround sound
Depthsounder - ST60 Tridata
Navigation center - Raymarine E120
Cockpit speakers
DVD player - in each cabin
GPS - Raymarine E120
Inside Equipment
Microwave oven
Fresh water maker
Hot water
Washing machine - Washer/Dryer Combo
Marine head
Stern thruster
Electric bilge pump
Bow thruster
Manual bilge pump
Battery charger
Electric head
Electrical Equipment
Generator - Onan 11Kva
Shore power inlet
Electrical Circuit: 12V
Outside Equipment/Extras
Teak cockpit
Hydraulic gangway
Cockpit table
Swimming ladder
Cockpit shower
Outboard engine brackets
Cockpit cushions
Tender - Ribeye with 8hp outboard
Total Liferaft Capacity: 6
Electric windlass
Bimini Top
Cockpit cover
- Ice Maker
- Water Maker
- Surround sound Bose 2000w and Denon Driver
- Pioneer 50" TV in saloon
- Flat screen TVs and DVD players in each cabin
- Sky Satelite TV
- Heating
- Dishwasher
- Washing Machine/Tumble dryer
- Crew cabin with heating
- Holding tank
- Electric flush heads
- 3 x Eberspacher units providing heating to cabins, and saloon areas including Flybridge and crew cabin.
- CD/Radio units at lower helm and fly.
- Sky HD Box.
- Flat screen TV in saloon, additional combi units to all cabins.
- Microwave Combi
- Hob, four electric plates with extractor fan over.
- Galley Fridge (Dual voltage) Similar on fly.
- Icemaker in saloon.
- Desalination Watermaker (120 litres ph)
- Hot water via Calorifier and additional 240v immersion.
- Two 24v electric toilets with discharge to: Holding Tank or Sea.
- Manual flush toilet to crew cabin, with sink.
- Bespoke cushions and seating
- Electric recliner seating
- Electric hi-lo table
- Bimini and Full Flybridge Cockpit Enclosure
- Teak on flybridge fitted 2009
- BBQ griddle and sink
- Refrigerator
- Helm Seats from Squadron 78
- Passerelle
- Teak laid to: Cockpit, bathing platform, and flybridge
- .40lb Delta Anchor
- .Stainless Steel cleats
- .Benenzoni electro-hydraulic passarelle.
- Underwater LED, (4) lights to stern transom.
- Raymarine E120 combined GPS/map with radar, to both lower helm and fly
- Simrad RS82 VHF/DSC to helm and fly
- Raymarine ST60 Tridata display (speed, Log, Depth) both stations.
- Raymarine ST7002 Autopilot to both stations.
- Open array radar
- Trackvision
- Handhedl VHF
Standard navigation lights.
Remote Controlled Search light
- Volvo TAMD 122P-A 610hp diesel engine on shafts
- 5 Blade propelors
- Trim Tabs
- Raymarine camera to engine room
- Onan 11Kva generator
- Engine overhauled in 2007
- Injectors and pumps overhauled in 2012
- Bow and stern thrusters new in 2008
- Lewmar 24v Electric Anchor Windlass.
- Shore power main facilities.
- Mastervolt 60 amp battery charger
- Three 1500 gallon per hour bilge pumps, with automatic float switches.
Additional high capacity rule pumps.
Two way manual bilge pump fitted in cockpit.
Six man liferaft. (Serviced till 2014)
11KG Seafire FM200 autosystem fitted with engine shut down circuit.
Various Fire Extinguishers.
Fire blanked to galley.
- Man overboard system
Additional Information
- Ribeye tender with 8hp Yamaha Outboard, new 2011
The Company offers the details of this vessel in good faith but cannot guarantee or warrant the accuracy of this information nor warrant the condition of the vessel. A buyer should instruct his agents, or his surveyors, to investigate such details as the buyer desires validated. This vessel is offered subject to prior sale, price change, or withdrawal without notice.
Brokers Website
Other Boats from RBS Marine LTD
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Muse 50
Factory, Spain
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Chichester, United Kingdom


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Brenna Haukedahl
Brenna Haukedahl is known for her work on Maron in Space (2013), You're Welcome: Avril and NYPD Are the Worst You're Welcome: Avril and NYPD Are the Worst (2014) and Inappropriate Pilot Outtakes with David Spade Part 3 (2013). See full bio »
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Energy Sector
Fracking Bans
Breach of Contract
Environmental Policies
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