text:
ECONET Wireless Zimbabwe is proceeding with its plans to acquire the entire shareholdings in TN Bank through a share swap deal, the company said yesterday. Econet, which currently holds 45 percent shareholding in TN Bank, intends to acquire the entire ordinary shares of the bank through the share swap of one Econet ordinary share for every 28,79 TN Bank shares.
TN Bank shareholders can also exercise a cash option by getting US15,91c for each TN Bank ordinary share held. The price is approximately 50 percent less the listing price of US32,08c in June last year.
Shareholders linked to the founder of the bank, Mr Tawanda Nyambirai, with a combined 30,46 percent shareholding, have indicated they would accept the offer.
"The transaction has no material effect on the earnings per share and net interests value of TN Bank Limited," said Econet in a circular to shareholders.
"EWZ will pay for the TN shares using Econet Wireless Zimbabwe shares in its treasury stock and there will be no issue of new shares. The transaction will have no material effect on the earnings per share and net assets of Econet Wireless Zimbabwe."
If approved, TN Bank will delist from the Zimbabwe Stock Exchange. Apart from approvals from the shareholders, "an application has been made to the RBZ to approve the holding of up to 100 percent (shareholding) of TN Bank by EWZ".
After acquiring the entire shareholding of TN Bank, Econet will recapitalise the bank in line with thresholds set by the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe in June last year.
Two weeks ago, TN said it needed to raise money to meet the new minimum capital requirements of US$100 million for commercial banks by December 31 next year.
The management felt any engagement with potential investors would likely value the company using its trading price which at this time undervalues the company.


text:
April 4, 2007 2:11 PM PDT
Does H-1B surge mean cap should be raised?
- Related Stories
Senate bill gives Americans preference for tech jobsApril 3, 2007
H-1B limit reached for next yearJune 2, 2006
H-1B visas hit roadblock in CongressMarch 31, 2006
Waging battle on foreign laborOctober 6, 2005
H-1B visa limit for 2005 already reachedOctober 1, 2004
On Tuesday, the U.S. government announced that this year's limit on H-1B visas had already been reached after only one day, the first time in history the annual cap had been reached so quickly. Since 1990, American employers have relied on the visas to hire skilled foreign workers for up to six years, often in computer- or engineering-related jobs.
The reason for the surge matters: Congress is expected to hold hearings on raising the limit later this year, and will surely question why the quota was reached so instantly. Technology companies argue the surge is further proof that the quota must be increased, while opponents say there are enough Americans to do those jobs already.
High-tech companies say the visas are critical to filling voids in their workforces and have been lobbying for Congress to raise the cap, which currently stands at 65,000 (but climbs just above 100,000 when a number of exemptions are taken into account). Critics say the program has depressed U.S. wages and put qualified Americans out of jobs.
For lawyers who counsel clients on how to apply for H-1Bs, the record-high 150,000 applications reportedly received by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services by Monday afternoon--the first day it began accepting them--was a natural response to what they said is an ever-narrowing window in which visas remain available.
For the fourth straight year, the cap was reached before the start of the next fiscal year. Two years ago, USCIS determined in early August that it had received enough applications to meet the cap for the next year's batch of the work permits. Last year, the agency had stopped accepting new applications by late May--less than two months after it opened the application window.
"Many people figured out that, if the pattern continued, the 'run out' day would be the first day that anyone could file--namely, April 2," said Crystal Williams, deputy director of programs for the American Immigration Lawyers Association.
Fear of missing out on the visas likely prompted many employers to "frontload" their applications rather than spreading them out over many weeks or months, said Peter Roberts, co-head of the immigration practice at the Stamford, Conn.-based law firm McCarter & English.
"I know that was the advice to my clients: You can't run the risk of waiting and then not being able to employ this individual," said Roberts, whose firm mostly works with companies in the financial services and manufacturing industry.
Programmers Guild founder John Miano had a different take. The run on the visas is nothing short of "an organized campaign to exhaust the quota as quickly as possible," motivated by the hope that Congress will be persuaded that more visas are necessary, he said.
That's precisely the wrong approach, said Miano, whose group supports restrictions on H-1Bs in an effort to combat perceived displacement of American workers and depression of salaries.
"The fact that industry is now capable of putting through a staggering number of H-1B applications in just one day is the best illustration yet of why we need an H-1B quota," he said. "Industry has proved it will not be self-policing when it comes to H-1B numbers."Unemployment low in tech
High-tech industry advocates of additional H-1B visas said their companies are in a particularly tight spot because U.S. unemployment levels in the computer science and engineering fields are far lower than the nationwide average while the number of job openings is growing, leaving firms little choice but to recruit foreigners.
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics figures cited by Oracle vice president Robert Hoffman, the unemployment rate in February 2007 was 2 percent for computer and mathematical occupations and 1.7 percent for architecture and engineering occupations. That's far below the 4.9 percent national rate, although it's about equal to the 1.9 percent rate for all "management, professional and related occupations." Meanwhile, the Department of Labor estimates that the number of new jobs created in math and computer science fields will have grown to about 100,000 by 2014.
"This tells us there is significant demand and a shrinking pool of qualified professionals," Hoffman said.
The employment rates present a serious challenge to American high-tech firms, particularly in combination with recent statistics showing that more than half of advanced degrees in engineering and technology at U.S. universities are awarded to foreigners, Hoffman said.
The timing of this year's shortage is particularly troubling because it occurred long before a new class of international university students received their U.S.-based degrees, said Kara Calvert, director of government relations for the Information Technology Industry Council. ITIC's members include Apple, Dell, Cisco Systems, Intel and Microsoft.
"Our companies cannot submit applications for prospective recruits until they have a degree in hand, which means this new crop of talented individuals may be forced to return home after receiving their U.S. degrees," she said. "Even more troubling is the real possibility that these U.S.-educated workers may begin innovating for our (overseas) competitors."
It's misguided to say there's a connection between the state of the U.S. labor market and the surging demand for H-1B visas, argued Ron Hira, a Rochester Institute of Technology professor and former board member of IEEE-USA, which lobbies for checks on the visa system on behalf of American engineers.
"The argument they make is these U.S. workers just don't exist, but you can't conclude that based on H-1B demand," said Hira, who has also authored a book and reports criticizing the H-1B system. "H-1B demand is completely decoupled from the labor market because they don't have to look for U.S. workers."
Only H-1B dependent companies--that is, when more than 15 percent of their workforces are H-1B holders--are expected certify that they aren't displacing qualified Americans, which means most companies can escape that requirement, Hira said. A new U.S. Senate bill would extend that requirement to all firms that employ foreigners through the visa program and attempts to give the Department of Labor more tools to enforce such rules.
Another reason why foreigners may be attractive to U.S. companies is that they are only required to pay them the "prevailing wage," which is often lower than the market wage, Hira said. The Senate bill would change the way "prevailing wage" is determined in a way designed to raise the minimum payout.
"We really don't know why there is so much demand for these H-1B workers," Hira said, "but there are good reasons why companies would prefer foreign workers over U.S. workers."
See more CNET content tagged:
H-1B, quota, cap, founder, worker
167 commentsJoin the conversation! Add your comment
- Cannot find U.S. workers?
- I always seem to hear this same excuse from the employers who prefer using foreign workers to fill "voids". Is it me or does it seem to me that they would rather hire someone from overseas than right here at home, even a small distance from them.
One reason for their decision to do so is that they are able to find a "secure source" of available people to fill open positions. One question that I always asked myself: Why? I beleive that there are people out there who want the job, but they do not want to give it to them, because of "financial reasons". Because they do not want to pay a domestic individual who is qualified for the same job, they would rather seek foreign individuals who will do it, but at a lower pay rate.
It is no wonder there are Americans having a hard time finding a job in a high tech field. They are qualified for the job, live within a given distance of the place, and can do the job effectively, and can have the required or exceeded experience under their belt. But denied the chance to do so because of the employer's refusal to pay the wages to hire them.
- Like Reply Link Flag
- And if You Think It's Bad In Industry ...
- ... just try to hire qualified tech workers into education where
salaries are already way lower to begin with. It's gotten to the
point where a visa application is almost a normal part of the
process. On top of that, some administrators will hire workers
for awhile and then let them go when "the visa doesn't come
through" - only to start the cycle over by hiring more people in
the same situation. Telling a boss in education that the salary
range they've approved for a position is way too low to get
qualified workers earns you a look like you've done something
wrong. One boss even told me that if I can't hire someone who's
well-qualified at the measley salary she had assigned to the
position, that she would reduce the position to a trainee position
with lower education and experience requirements - even
though the person would be responsible for a host of mission-
critical production enterprise-class systems.
- Like Link Flag
- Where are they then??
- My tech company has plenty of job openings and about one in ten resumes are from US citizens and even fewer can pass a technical interview. Folks from India and China are better trained and more motivated. If US folks want tech jobs, then start taking college seriously and get qualified before applying. Employers prefer the best candidate. "Foreign" has nothing to do with it.
- Like Link Flag
- Read my post
- You literally can't find qualified US citizens. That's a fact. It is surprisingly bleak.
- Like Link Flag
- US Department of Labor puts the unemployment at 1.7 percent for tech worker
- US Department of Labor puts the unemployment at 1.7 percent for tech workers
- Like Link Flag
- Simple Economics
- The problem really has nothing to do with companies being ?willing? to pay workers ? it is simple economics. Every job has an inherent value, which is the amount of benefit the employer receives from hiring the individual. American workers, by and large, consider this value to be ?unfair?, and demand wages far higher than what the job is actually worth. Until our workforce begins to look at their worth to employers objectively and realistically, we will continue to drive more and more jobs overseas. Other than the occasional entry-level, new graduate job, these foreign workers are earning enough money to live very well in this country, to invest, and to send money back to relatives in their home country ? it is the unrealistic expectations, and often the outright greed, of the American workers that is to blame for the condition we find ourselves in today.
- Like Link Flag
- Shut the Lid
- I am sure that if the H1-B were another visa type for another
employment category the there would be the same result.
Whether it was for carpenters, mechanics, nurses, or farm
workers. People want to come here for a better life and wages
that are higher than in their own countries. We are destroying
our middle class and the lid needs to the shut, not at 100,000
but for skills in really short supply say around 1000. We should
not just provide the visas because Microsoft and others want
cheap labor.
- Like Reply Link Flag
- yep I agree
- Microsoft does want cheap labor, they are cheap, I worked there, I
know. Majority of all the jobs go to Indians and now Chineese
immigrants, upps, is that the right terminology to use, since they
are H1-B Visas ?
- Like Link Flag
- You make no sense
- If there weren't demand we wouldnt need to raise the limit. Just how many carpentars, welders and mechanics applied? And how many hired? Probably ZERO. Duh. I mean shouldnt zippyrooter be trying to get cheap plumbers on H1B? Of freaking course not, because they can find them here. American companies try and hire here first of course. We only go outside and to such lengths when we're desperately in need of more talent and we can't find it.
The fact that the limit was hit in 1 day shows we have a serious demand for these works and if it isnt met it's only american companies that will be adverserely affected. And that's bad for all tech workers. We're going to fall behind other countries.
- Like Link Flag
- to georgiarat
- You sound very ignorant on the subject so let me educate you a little. Microsoft and other multi-billion dollar companies are pulling for a higher cap because they want the best workers. We are talking about Microsoft here, a company that has dominated to tech industry all over the world, a company that has changed the lives of Americans and revolutionized the technology world. Do you think that Microsoft has made billions and trillions of dollars because the hire the cheapest labor they can find? I highly doubt that. Who are you to argue with one of the most successful and wealthiest companies in the world, that is an aweful bold statement don't you think? Its almost sad... But i'd be happy to answer any other questions you have since you can't seem to think rationally. Everyone just needs to stop gripping and making themselves the victims because I am so tired of hearing we're americans and we can't get jobs blah blah blah... get off your butt and try harder!
- Like Link Flag
- Sergey Brin was a H-1B visa reciepent he displaced a job but created 1000
- Productivity and not the cost of labor is what rules the day. Microsoft Intel etc. don't want people who will work for less... they want people who can produce more for less money.
In any industry there are two forces that compete with each other immigration drives wages down and innovation drives wages up.
For example when Sergey Brin came to the US on a H1-b visa he drove the price down. But when he founded google and innovated he wages for the best and brightest started to go up.
Sergey took the job of one American and directly created tens of thousands of Jobs. Indirectly he created thousands of more jobs through his labor saving devices which allowed people to work more efficiently.
Should the United States hire the best and brightest? Immigration was lax during 90,000. The after 9-11 there was a severe contraction of h-1b visas from 200,000 to 65,000 did this help the industry? No it just forced the big players to develop Research labs overseas.. The exact opposite of what we want in a society.
When a country sends its workers overseas they gain business skills and work experience they could not learn if they were in their home countries. If they return they have foriegn contacts which fosters trade with their home country.
Even if they never return it still helps the home country. When employers see the quality and the quantity of the labor force that comes to the US they are more likely to invest and establish operation in that country. This was certainly the case in India and China.
- Like Reply Link Flag
- Sergey Brin is one in a million
- Most of the other 999,999 H-1s do nothing for the economy except depress wages. If they were all like Sergey Brin the USA would be the technological giant it used to be and we techies would all be making a fortune.
- Like Link Flag
- Stopping H1 should get India
- If so, many of them will be forced to stay at home
( but , may be the outsourcing will accelerate and India will benefit more ).
- Like Link Flag
- Schooled!
- Nice one. Ya he created more jobs than there have been given H1B's in the past 5 years if you consider the trickle down economics of his creation! I make a mint from Adwords and so do a ton of other people. And that doesnt even count all his employees, or mine, etc.
- Like Link Flag
- Brin was here before H-1B visas existed
- "Sergey attended grade school in the U.S. at Paint Branch
Montessori School in Adelphi, Maryland, but he received further
education at home; his father Michael Brin, a professor in the
Department of Mathematics at the University of Maryland,
nurtured his interest in mathematics..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Brin
He's a lot brighter than the average H-1B.
And so is Larry Page: "The son of Michigan State University
computer science professor Dr. Carl Victor Page, Larry's love of
computers began at age six. While following in his father's
footsteps in academics, he became an honors graduate from the
University of Michigan, where he earned a bachelor of science
degree in engineering, with a concentration on computer
engineering. During his time in Ann Arbor, Larry built an inkjet
printer out of Lego? bricks."
http://www.google.com/corporate/execs.html
Hmm, Shona Brown, however, hasn't had quite so stellar of a
career, having been a partner in the disreputable McKinsey.
- Like Link Flag
- Everybody is missing whole picture
- American Engineers and association are arguing that H1b is taking away their job. But that wrong its outsourcing that taking away the job. If they cancel or reduce the cap for h1b, those job will be out sourced.
Politicians are missing the point that h1b is better than out sourcing, because at least h1bs pay tax to US government and contribute for medicare and social security fund.
MOST IMPORTANTLY THE ROOT CAUSE OF CURRENT H1 PROBLEM ARE OUT SOURCING COMPANIES. They take job away from US to offshore, then they fill up h1b cap to send their engineers here to work for cheap. I do not think American companies can fill up 150000 h1b in a day that too in middle of semester. MOST APPLICATIONS ARE FROM OFFSHORE COMPANIES.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indian_IT_firms_in_rush_for_H1-B_lottery/articleshow/1825429.cms
My 2 cents following changes will be most beneficial for US economy and its technological advances.
- Restrict H1b only to applicants who have American University Degree ( This will bring in more foreign student, more research fund and more intellectual minds)
- Increase H1b slowly if required (If most of the US graduates want to stay in US and work they should be allow to it will help boost economy and increase technological advances)
- Like Reply Link Flag
- You are absolutely right
- And what's more, they get people they can exploit because they want a Green Card, so they work them way more hours than 40 a week, and they don't leave because they will put up with almost any indignity to be able to stay in the USA. I know. I had an H1 myself. Now I have a Green Card. I don't feel like I am taking an "American" job away due to cheap labor, because I am far from cheap labor. Ironically, I am against the H-1 program because it is being exploited as you described. In my H-1 days, 10 years ago, it was actually a decent program. As it is currently run, the H-1 program AND offshoring both put pressure on prevailing wages, but offshoring is the bigger culprit due to exchange rates and vastly different living standards in the countries that are the current pool for outsourcing. However, the H-1 puts pressure on the US wages because you can make your H-1's work 12, 14, 16 hour days, and over weekends, without complaint (they fear losing their jobs and being kicked out of the USA) and therefore get them "half-price".
Like Alan Kay said, "Most software today is very much like an Egyptian pyramid with millions of bricks piled on top of each other, with no structural integrity, but just done by brute force and thousands of slaves."
We know who the "slaves" are, don't we?
- Like Link Flag
- No Immigration caps all of the World Researchers would come here.
- Think about it the smartest individuals want to come to the country where they are rewarded the most. The United States has the worlds largest economy.
We have by far the best Universities. Only 2 out of the top 20 are not American.
Its kind of a crazy idea to think that we can have a society where there are two many smart people.
Maybe if we loosened the labor market the way that we financial and capital markets the Venture Capitalist would invest in local companies. Instead of Chinese companies like Baidu and Lenovo.
- Like Link Flag
- You are damn right
- I've got a company with 50 people and i've many times considering just moving it overseas. It's too hard to get people here. This H1B limit is just another nail in the coffin of american companies.
So be careful what you wish for. You may just get it.
- Like Link Flag
- body shopping led to H-1B led to off-shoring
- And they all feed back to facilitate each other.
Ron Hira of Rochester Institute of Technology examined it and
concluded (as many of us already suspected) that H-1B visas are
used to facilitate off-shoring. The initial H-1B (or L-1) visa-
holder takes back knowledge for use when setting up the off-
shore shop. Subsequent guest-workers are used to facilitate
communications and additional knowledge transfer.
NSF drove for the huge increase in foreign student recruiting
and visas in order to produce more PhDs so that compensation
could be driven down. They explicitly stated that this was their
goal. They were also aware that the tilted economic incentives
would drive more US citizens away from these graduate
The result across the board has been undermining careers of US
citizens from university to senior level experienced
The solution is to decrease the numbers of student visas (f), and
work visas (E, H, J, L...) to numbers low enough for the
government to properly handle the background investigations
and paperwork processing, and to numbers that will restore the
economic benefits for US citizens to get degrees in science and
tech fields, including master's and doctor's degrees. This will
also discourage off-shoring, decrease knowledge transfer, and
hence erosion of the USA's cutting edge lead, and encourage US
firms to recruit and hire US citizens.
Even if we shut the doors completely for the next 10 years, as
Frosty Wooldridge has proposed, or 18 years, we would still not
have brought back into full utilization the huge pool of under-
tapped US citizen science and tech talent.
http://www.kermitrose.com/jgoEconData.html#Edu
http://www.kermitrose.com/jgoEconData.html#Visas
http://www.kermitrose.com/jgoEconData.html#Employment
- Like Link Flag
- Stop all H1-B Visas
- Because of these H1-B Visas it took me almost 3 years to find a job in the tech field after graduating college. I had high GPA and every interview, "Im sorry but we have to full fill the government diversity of employment". First the caucasian man gets left out and now its all American born citizens that gets the bottom of the barrel jobs.
As my father (one of the few steel workers the U.S. has) says if one country stops shipping steel to the U.S. we will be third world in a matter of months because we don't have a modern steel mill in production.
This goes the same in the tech field, keep importing people the American citizen will be minority.
- Like Reply Link Flag
- I don't believe that!
- Technical Interviews do not prove anything. I'm not good at technical interviews at all. That is the issue with today's American companies. Everything they ask for today they want it done 5 months ago and don't want to spend the money for the extra research that I like to do. I strive for perfect not just a product that "works". This is where the true test comes in. I run circles around our H1-B's.
- Like Reply Link Flag
- Around most H-1's, anyway...
- I'm an ex-H-1 and I run circles around many people, H-1 or otherwise. You're generalizing when you talk about H-1's... a small minority are pretty good. I think it has everything to do with caring about what you do and putting enough effort into it to make a well-crafted product. I don't strive for perfection, because it is unattainable in the environment in which I work, for various reasons. I *do* strive for excellence, though, and usually achieve that goal.
That being said, I agree with you totally that technical interviews don't prove much. They mostly prove that you are good at doing technical interviews, and don't show your work ethic, if you work well in a team, if you care about quality, or how well you learn new things that are "outside the box". I'll bet that even if something is not on your resume, you would be able to RTFM and get up to speed in a short time. Most technical interviewers don't understand this.
- Like Link Flag
- Better Education, Free economy
- As long as schools downplay science, evolution and math coz it aint "sexy" you will need foreigners for IT and as engineers
The best and the brightest come to America, if you are turning them away then you are loosing the competative advantage that has built this great country.
I am in the IT field and can tell you from first hand expirience there is a shortage of US workers. There is also an overal shortage of skilled people. the H1B has kept the economy humming for the last 8 years - anyone who ignores that is playing the fool
- Like Reply Link Flag
- Huh?
- I am in the IT field too, and I believe the shortage of American IT workers (if it exists) is because many of them have given up on the IT career path (and retired or moved to greener pastures) due to unfair competition from cheap foreign workers, and new college students are understandably steering clear of IT and engineering careers because of the exploitation that is going on.
Who's the fool?
- Like Link Flag
- Agree, US Education system is inferior to European or Asian systems
- Our company does not need average/sub average engineers, We need the best engineers to compete in this global market, otherwise we will have to shut down and erase some jobs for quite a few american citizens. We don't need mediocrity. Our competitors should have plenty of that!!!
The so called "advanced math" that they teach here in high school is teached in the 5th grade in europe.
Let's not talk about work ethic ...
- Like Link Flag
- USA schools actually do better than Europe
- In international tests, US-born students come in second only to
Singapore in math, science & tech.
However, we have huge numbers of 1st generation illegal aliens
and immigrants who don't do so well. They bring down the
But I agree that too many US schools and teachers seem to go
out of their ways to make math classes an exercise in torture. By
9th grade I had developed a game of not paying attention during
class so that I'd have the challenge of figuring everything out
during the tests. (And while I'm on the topic, why don't those
lazy mathematicians get around to defining division by zero,
FCOL! Get to work ya bums! B-)
- Like Link Flag
- My fellow americans stand up and fight
- While protecting Citizens is among the most important roles of government, the U.S. Congress has knowingly violated the liberty and property interests that 500,000 Americans had in their chosen profession by allowing them to be displaced by foreign workers.
The enemy is corporate America who along with our congress is giving away America's jobs in the name of profit, and profit only. Meaning cheap labor
If we Americans do not take a stand, America will turn into a 3rd world cesspool. America's resources are for Americans first, and jobs are one of its many resources.
- Like Reply Link Flag
- You agree too?
- As in one of my posts for this story you seem to agree too. Americans are becoming the minority here, no matter what job target you look at. I give Japan, China, and Europe 10 years. In 10 years comparing their economy with ours will be like comparing ours with Russia in the current day. Economy does not stand a chance.
- Like Link Flag
- my doodles
- Lack of enforcement by Immigration and Labor has led to current situation. Shops based out of homes are applying for H1s. It has turned to scam, there should be some sort of quota or limit system that would limit the number of visas to a company.
For example there are lot of Software Bodyshops that are entirely staffed by H1-Bs, which form the largest segment of H1-B applications. No company above 50 employees should have a work force above 25% as H1-Bs. This should be strictly enforced. Stricter set of rules on H1-B and L-1 should be imposed on Non-American companies that are more likely to grab H1-B quota with their local work force.
Since all H1-Bs are termed "experts" or "extra-ordinary skilled" there should be some form of salary regulation.
- Like Link Flag
- employee stability
- Another point that is commonly overlooked in regards to the H1b issue is that H1B employee's find it difficult to switch jobs.
so if a company can find a young engineer for market or under market wage, they can also expect that employee to stick around which is a huge boon for any company.
- Like Reply Link Flag
- That is half true
- H1Bs can switch jobs. But many of them don't to because most probably the green card process need to be started over. This makes them bonded to the company. Many end up sticking to the same employer
for 6 - 8 years ! That is the delight of employer.
- Like Link Flag
- Let them in - as many as possible.
- If you are saying that we should stop the H-1B applicants you don't know what you are talking about. I have personally hired tens of employees during the last few years and you simply can't find enough qualified US citizens with CS/Math/EE backgrounds. Our company would be paralyzed without the H-1B employees. That is a fact. I would love to hire more US citizens - if I could find any.
You may not like to hear this but it is the truth. More importantly it means our company can grow - as a US company in a US economy rather then giving marketshare away to a an overseans company. Finally, it also means that I can hire the very best and brightest - to live and work in the US. This only helps US companies and economies.
Btw, we pay US wages. There is NO drop in wages for an H-1B candidate and in fact we pay the same for a US citizen employee - when we can find them.
Think about this before you respond. Yes I'm sure some of you think your job has been stolen but I don't know of a single case where this is true. In any event it wouldn't make any sense unless we were paying 50% of US wages and that isn't the case.
Again, if you are qualified we will hire you - we just can't seem to find you right now. And if we didn't have the H-1B employees we would be crippled as a company.
- Like Reply Link Flag
- same here
- I work with small-mid size associations. IT staff salary is around 60k to 80k. But the resumes we get are complete jokes. People who have online degrees, little experience, yet they think they should get over 100k??? I mean, we don't expect to see 20 year vets wanting to work at a small/mid size non profit, but you would think there must be a decent pool of tech workers with under 5 years experience who would work for 60k to 80k?
- Like Link Flag
- You speak the truth
- I share your experiences 100%. I could have written exactly the same thing. And I'm sure thousands of other companies share our problems.
We're only bringing in what we can't find here, they're paid what anyone else would be paid, and if we can't hire them we'll have to start looking elsewhere. If enough of that happens then sooner or later all the good jobs we have here now and hare trying to hire these people for will be in some other country where the people that couldn't get in went.
- Like Link Flag
- Maybe your company SHOULD be paralyzed
- So many firms these days are engaged in activities and making
products to be used for unethical purposes, perhaps it would be
better if they were paralyzed.
Then again, maybe you should lift a finger to recruit from the
over 1M unemployed and under-employed US science and tech
Of course, we know of several cases in which US workers were
displaced by less capable guest-workers. The first I heard of
was at Siemens in Lake Mary Florida, where they required the US
workers to train the L-1 workers as a condition for receiving a
severance package. Even Indian workers, here on H-1B visas,
who later attained citizenship suddenly found that recruiters no
longer wanted to talk with them.
Sona Shah demonstrated this well last year before a
congressional committee. She showed a slide of a job ad, used
her cellular phone to call a recruiter who was all eager... until
they learned she is a citizen, at which point they said, over the
speakers in the hearing room, that they were only interested in
hiring via the H-1B program.
- Like Link Flag
- Keep it simple
- Why not allow US companies a simple quota of H1-Bs depending upon how many Americans they employ?
For example, my company has 22 employees and one H1-B employee. That could hardly be considered abuse of the system. That employee is paid well (over 100K) just like the other domestic engineers.
My single H1-B employee won the H1-B lottery today (the process used by the immigration office) and is now one of the chosen 65,000 which makes be very happy! However, it bothers me that large companies can corner large blocks of applications.
If I didn't have the ability to obtain this H1-B for my employee, I would have to contract him in his home country. While I am sure some of you dumb redneck isolationists think this is a good idea, I would rather have those tax dollars at work in America.
- Like Reply Link Flag
- In case you didn't know.
- In case you didn't know. Whole of windows XP and windows server is completely managed in Microsoft's India office.
I guess if we restrict then enough the other products will follow suite too.
- Like Reply Link Flag
- is that why windows is so crappy?
- Thats good to know. From what I hear Microsoft copied MOST things in windows from apple and yet you say it comes from India. Where is the innovation. And besides, Windows components are still crappy products compared to other products such as mozilla firefox, google, linux etc.
- Like Link Flag
- Low quality of work in India
- "In case you didn't know. Whole of windows XP and windows
server is completely managed in Microsoft's India office. I guess
if we restrict then enough the other products will follow suite
Thank you for demonstrating the low quality of work done in
- Like Link Flag
- one in million..here are more...
- what about Intel..some of the founders of intel chip were immigrants. what about microsoft ? some of the current key architects of windows and office are immigrants. what about sun microsystems ? some immigrants were among its founders. what about the countless new start ups that immigrants open up in US ? Although a lot of them may just be cheap labor but then a lot of them are brilliant brains too.
I say this because my boss is a immigrant and I have not seen anyone more intelligent and hardworking than him. He creates jobs for the 100s of us Americans who work for the company.
- Like Reply Link Flag
- quality != numbers
- That's exactly why visas should be restricted and expensive, why
work visas should be auctioned so that only the most valuable
lights could immigrate (in contrast with the H-1B program's
hundreds of thousands of mediocre). This is why a monthly
auction to the top 83 to 167 bidders would be best.
But applicants should also have to pass and pay the costs for a
background investigation due to efforts of terrorists and spies to
infiltrate. Of course, employers and charities would be welcome
to help cover, on a non-refundable basis, those costs (i.e. they
couldn't take it out of the immigrant's pay).
- Like Link Flag
- Same old story...
- The industry just wants to pay people less to work... foreign workers work cheap because they are desperate - and local workers get the shaft.
Companies are going to keep plugging away at this H1 visa thing until the people cave and stop fighting.
- Like Reply Link Flag
- Immigration = innovation Einstein Warner Brother and Sergey Brin
- Immigrants have always innovated Einstein and the German physicists The Warner brothers and their establishement of the movie business.
Sergey brin the story of America is the immigrant.
http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/india/article.cfm?articleid=4179
52 percent of all start up companies are started foriegn born individuals
- Like Link Flag
- Aint that the truth
- Word to the mutha. Seriously anyone who has run a company and tried to hire would know exactly why we need more H1B's.
- Like Reply Link Flag
- Should US also ban IT programmers?
- I see an interesting conversation going on here. So just fot the sake of arguement, let me add this...
IT programmers write programs to automate the tasks that were done manually before. So when a bunch of programmers made Turbo tax, a lot of accountants lost their job; after I installed a word processor on my computer, i no longer needed my typist; when people use more and more email to send messages, the postal department may hire less postal workers.
To prevent unemployment in US, the federal government should ban all IT programmers. Similarly it should ban all the ATM machines, all self checkouts at the grocery stores and supermarkets, all websites selling products online, etc etc etc...
The moral of the story is that it all depends on what perspective you are looking at it from.
- Like Reply Link Flag
- straight from the horses mouth...
- "This tells us there is significant demand and a shrinking pool of qualified professionals," Hoffman said.
According to their "market forces" they always trumpet, our salaries should be going up. God know the ceo salaries are! I've watched the salaries go down every year for the last 10 years. Now that I'm a senior engineer, I'm getting way less (adjusting for inflation) than the senior engineers back when I started.
- Like Reply Link Flag
- some IT pay has gone up
- Some IT compensation has gone up more in IT than in other
fields, but that's partly because of the huge down-sizings.
http://www.kermitrose.com/images/EarningsPerHour.jpg
Starting salaries haven't been so good:
http://www.kermitrose.com/images/NACE.jpg
Employment has been stagnant since shortly after the beginning
of the depression in 2000 (notice also the dip in 1998):
http://www.kermitrose.com/images/SWProdDev.jpg
Unemployment by occupational group is also interesting:
http://www.kermitrose.com/images/
http://www.kermitrose.com/jgoEconData.html#Employment
But we're producing plenty of US citizen science and tech
workers in the USA:
http://www.kermitrose.com/images/NCESTotalBach.jpg
http://www.kermitrose.com/jgoEconData.html#Edu
Even if you don't count the millions unemployed and under-
- Like Link Flag
- 70% of the 65,000 h-1b visas are used to outsource U.S. jobs
- We don't need to raise the cap, we need to stop the abuse of foreign IT offshoring companies. Foreign IT offshoring companies are using 70% or more of the h-1b Visas, in order to train workers and ship them back home.
The h-1b program is taking more jobs away from the U.S. each year, than it could ever hope to bring in.
This program is in bad need of a complete reform, before it guts this countries IT industry.
Don't believe me, read up, here are the links:
Businessweek: The h-1b program is a "conduit to offshoring"
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/feb2007/db20070208_553356.htm
MSNBC: "Work visas may work against the U.S."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17048048/
Bill gates doesn't give XXXX about the U.S. worker, read up on how he sticks it to his own Microsoft employees:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2007/03/30/EDGRJN7CFB1.DTL
70% (or more) of the 65,000 available h-1b visas are being used by foreign offshore outsourcing companies. These foreign companies are using the Visas to train their workers in the U.S., and then ship them back home to continue the IT offshore outsourcing process.
Companies are using the h-1b program to help them setup foreign offices, development groups of all sizes, and divisions. H-1b workers are paid 20% less than their U.S. citizen counterpart. That's less tax money, then the company sends the worker back to India (usually), where he doesn't pay a dime in U.S. taxes, and proceeds to build a offshore development group that further removes U.S. jobs.
Companies such as Microsoft and Oracle are actually just trying to escape the high infrastructure cost (8 trillion dollars worth) of the United States. Half an engineer's salary is taxes. Taxes that pay Social Security to help our senior citizens, that keep the roads up, that assist our farmers, and taxes that are being used to defend the rest of the world from harm.
The U.S. department of labor has stated that companies can hire an h-1b worker over a U.S. citizen, even if the U.S. worker is just as qualified/capable as the foreign worker.
In open testimony before the U.S. congress, a job applicant called an agency to see if she could apply for a programming job on the east coast. The congress members were shocked to hear that the agency would not consider her for a job, because she could not be sponsored with an h-1b visa. The George Bush Department of Labor took no action against the company, even though most americans would consider this a clear act of bigotry against the U.S. citizen.
And the reason is clear, most h-1b visas are used to offshore U.S. jobs, not to create U.S. jobs.
All over the IT workplace, U.S. citizens are facing open discrimination, simply because their point of origin happens to be the United States. There is an onslought of bigotry being perpetrated by industry against the working U.S. citizen.
So even if you complained about your company prefering to hire a h-1b workers, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on in court. And Even if you applied for a job and were the best candidate, it could "legally" be taken by a worker from another country, and you "the american citizen" can stay on the unemployment line.
- Like Reply Link Flag
See available webform to contact your Congressman or Senator here
http://capwiz.com/aila2/issues/alert/?alertid=9221981&type=CO
- Like Reply Link Flag
- No Abuse Here
- Is someone going to try and tell me that there were 100,000 tech jobs available in the U.S. but no qualified applicants? BS. Call your congressman and ask/demand that we enforce our laws. In one day??? Don't get me wrong, I've no problem with importing people that want to integrate and follow the American dream, however, if American companies can't put Americans first, then they need to go away. I firmly believe, and Americans have shown, that there is not one thing that Americans cannot accomplish. Let's start offshoring these traitorous CEO's and managers. If we start giving real prison time for these a-holes for those that violate the laws then we wouldn't have to have these discussions. 100,000 in one day my as*.
- Like Reply Link Flag
- And think of all those loans
- I graduated from UCSD, top university with a GPA of 3.5. I had 2.5 years of work experience in my field. I also had Tens of thousands of dollars in federal and Bank Loans. And yet I have to compete with someone who is willing to get lower wages, Zero loans to pay back and I can tell you definitely that there is not a single university in India or Pakistan or China that can match the education in University of California system.
It took me 3 months to get a job after sending close to 150 resumes out. Yet these companies are hungry for 100s of thousands workers from india/china/pakistan etc. Nicely done.
- Like Link Flag
- Make the system work for U.S.A
- 1. H1B (at least at Microsoft) are not underpayd! We get indeed (as Bill Gates said) around 100.000/year (salary + benefits + bonuses) for start!
2. H1Bs that come in U.S.A. have a prety good financial situations in their own countries! I haven't come in U.S.A. for money! I did it because of the culture and to work at a great company!
3. I had other offer in U.K. (where my wife would have been able to work also) but I choosed U.S.A.
4. H1Bs have a lot of familial issues becasue their spouses can't work in U.S.A. :( I almost leaved U.S.A. ...
5. While other comanies are doing offsoring, Microsoft brings people in U.S.A. and we pay taxes here and we contribute to the health of this country!
6. If you don't wan't H1Bs in U.S.A. then companies will start migrating in other countries! What is better for U.S.A? having here H1B's or having Microsoft creating jobs in other countries?
7. Unemployment is under 2/100 in I.T., do you want to see unemployment under 2/10000 to understand how hard is for companies to find people to hire?
8. It is year 2007, please understand that the times have changed, if you want great software, you need people! Do you want to see Europe working on they OS&software, and having sales of 10 bilion+ going to Europe and not U.S.A.? Are you sure this is the right thing for you?
9. I work@icrosoft and all that I said is my personal opinion, there is no corelation Microsoft' point of view. (so if you plan to sue, sue me, not Microsoft :))
- Like Reply Link Flag
- H-1Bs not paid prevailing local market compensation
- So, why didn't M$ sign up for the Engineering Job Fair at CSUS?
Why didn't they recruit at any of the California State University
Why haven't I seen their job ads in the local Sunday paper?
Why is the Conference Board Help-Wanted advertising index
down around 30 (from a peak of over 100 in the late 1980s)?
Why haven't we seen any public apologies for M$'s perma-temp
scam, and why is their percentage of FTP emplyment still low?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/
It's also interesting that M$ has so vigorously objected to the
weak Durbin bill, since they claim to be paying prevailing market
compensation already; all it requires them to do is make a
legally-binding statement that they are doing so.
http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/itaa.real.html
http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/Archive/
http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/itaa.others.html#studies
http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/pub/Immigration/
http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/Archive/IEEESaysH1BsPaidLess.txt
http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/Archive/PGH1BWageData.txt
http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/Archive/IntelH1BWages.txt
http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/Archive/Fed03.txt
http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/Archive/GAO03.txt
http://www.kermitrose.com/econ1998.html#19960522
http://www.oig.dol.gov/public/reports/oa/pre_1998/06-96
http://www.kermitrose.com/econ1998.html#19970410
http://www.oig.dol.gov/public/media/testimony/19970410.pdf
http://www.kermitrose.com/econ1998.html#19980512
http://www.gao.gov/corresp/he98159r.pdf
http://www.kermitrose.com/econ2000.html#20000531
http://www.ccis-ucsd.org/PUBLICATIONS/wrkg12.PDF
http://www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/getrpt?GAO/HEHS-00-76
http://www.tgassociates.com/Com-June2000.asp
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/he00076.pdf
And they're not recruiting very industriously:
http://www.kermitrose.com/econ200303.html#20030127
http://www.computerworld.co.nz/webhome.nsf/UNID/
http://www.kermitrose.com/econ200307.html#20030807
http://www.techsunite.org/news/techind/030806_gao.cfm
http://www.kermitrose.com/econ200309.html#20030930
http://www.gao.gov/atext/d03883.txt
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d03883.pdf
http://www.nspe.org/etweb/10804viewpoint.asp
http://www.kermitrose.com/econ200510.html#20051220
http://www.cis.org/articles/2005/back1305.html
http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0123-miano.shtm
http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/Archive/
http://www.kermitrose.com/econ200605.html#20060506
http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/back506.html
http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/CIS.pdf
http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0531-matloff.shtm
http://www.gao.gov/htext/d06901t.html
http://www.gao.gov/cgi-bin/getrpt?GAO-06-901T
http://www.kermitrose.com/econ200606.html#20060625
http://www.colosseumbuilders.com/Guild/h1b/
http://www.kermitrose.com/econ200608.html#20060817
http://www.ere.net/inside-recruiting/news/group-claims-
http://www.technudge.com/2006/08/illegal-insourcing.html
http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/news/immigration/
And, of course, from our hosts:
http://news.cbsi.com/Some+H
- Like Link Flag
- Not coming for money?
- Thats just plain false. I had Phd's who worked with me from India that said that they got $200 per month in india and that was considered high pay. Here they were getting 20-40 fold more than that. Not counting the promise of a green card and bringing in more family members along.
Money may not be the only issue but its a great attraction.
If companies want to export jobs overseas, they are free to do so. Not like they aren't already doing it. They will do it regardless of the h1 quotas. Even if they had 1million people quota, they would still go overseas to build factories to pay them pennies on the dollar as wages.
- Like Reply Link Flag
- Not for money, for quality ...
- Last 2 companies that I worked for were: a romanian company which was paying 500 EURO/month and a foreign one which was paying 1000 EURO/month. And I wasn't in the top payed city in Romania!
I could get back in Romnania and have around 2000$/month and have a better financial life there.
It is not about money! At least not for East-europeans!
Some companies don't want to go everseas, but you force them to do that if you don't allow them to bring people in U.S.A.!
- Like Link Flag
- Both Money and Quality are Important
- Plain truth is that corporations in the free market economy has to do everything it can to succeed. There is nothing wrong in it and that is the only way US can prosper in future.
Protectionists are short-sighted politicians who has little knowledge in economics or little willingness for a greater tomorrow.
- Like Link Flag
- no really!
- Salary is not really the big problem for high-tech companies. Finding qualified people is. If salary was really the problem, then we'd just hire people with only B.S degrees. But that doesn't work because it takes years for someone with just a B.S. degree ramp up to a sufficient point to do useful work. That is because nowadays the stuff that most high-tech companies do is much more advanced then what they teach you at an undergrad level. We perefer to hire people with advance degrees, and there are not many Americans with PhD or dual M.S degress.
In fact I was the only American at my school pursuing a PhD degree for during the time I was there. I have been to 50+ conferences, I can say that less than 1% of all the PhD students I met were Americans.
All the foreigners I know and I work with do have PhDs or at leat double M.S. degrees and they get paid a lot. The starting salary for them is 100K+, so don't tell me the companies hire foreigners due to lower wage, that is simply not true.
Before you go and blame foreigners for stealing the jobs you think you'd otherwise have stop and think. Do you have a PdD, do you have 15+ publications in top conferences, do you have at least a couple of patents. If no, you're simply not good enough. If you were to apply to the group I manage, I wouldn't even ask you for an interview
- Like Reply Link Flag
- yes, really
- "Salary is not really the big problem for high-tech companies.
Finding qualified people is. If salary was really the problem, then
we'd just hire people with only B.S degrees"
You're not conscientiously and industriously trying.
If quality was your concern, we've got quite a few US high school
students who can do a great job developing software given
proper guidance. Degrees are beside the point. (I note that the
people at Ask make the same hyper-credentialist mistake. Their
search may produce a lot of false positive junk to wade through,
but it was developed by people with PhDs, and that's supposed
to impress people. Pffft!)
Nikolaus Otto was a school drop-out grocery salesman and
invented the first practical internal combustion engine. The
Wright brothers never attended college. Neither Gates nor Jobs
nor Wozniak have advanced degrees, and all were college drop-
outs when they made their names, i.e. did their most notable
The supply of PhDs is excessive, anyway, by design of the NSF.
If you've got a Nobel prize, at least a dozen significant US
patents, at least 5 decent books or 30 high-quality research
reports, then you're qualified for a telephone interview to see
whether you might qualify to apply for an H-1B visa. But then,
of course, you have to pass the background investigation and
pay for it.
IOW, if you can prove you truly are one of the few, the best and
brightest, we'll welcome you to the USA eagerly.
I've held a lot of PhD candidates' hands, nursed them through
the statistics they needed, helped uncounted profs do the same
and whip their books and journal articles into shape. I've helped
a US president, and a candidate or three for same, a governor, a
campaign manager for a senator, and super-heroes and their
associates and nemeses on the big screen come up with the
right thing to say. It takes a lot more than a PhD to impress me.
- Like Link Flag
- Academic vs. Vocational
- As a person who has a BS and a MBA, I can say that a college education in technology in the US is next to useless.
There is too much emphasis on academic and not enough emphasis on vocational and business.
The CS program I attended, which was fully accredited, and extremely well regarded, provided a strong foundation in CS, but wasted an immense amount of hours on high end math and science. Add in the redundant core English, History, etc. (What exactly did we not learn in High School?), and you have well over 50% of your college education devoted to things other than your planned career.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not discounting the value of the other subject, I've seen way too many technologists that were poor communicators or couldn't do simple algebra, but more emphasis is needed on the technology side using real world products, not 5 year old technology or just free open source products.
Most of CS graduates will end up working in a business environment, but are not even required to take a single business class. By contrast, they are required to take physics, chemistry or literature or philosophy to make them a more 'rounded' person.
By contrast, other countries, especially India are taking more focused, almost vocational approach that emphasizes an education focused on the needs of business, rather wasting a lot of time and money on subjects not germane to a person's future career.
If I am a hiring manager (and I am), which candidate am I going to look at? The person with a strong education in the tools used by my company or a person with a very general college education who may take up to a year to come fully up to speed? That's a no brainer, I'm gonna spend my dollars on the best candidate for the position, regardless of where they come from.
BTW, the MBA actually provided more value to my career than the BS, but it was stilll loaded with fluff.
The higher education system in the US better wake up and realize that their outmoded concepts of what constitutes a college education in technology will be a serious contributor to the fall of the US as a technology leader in the world.
- Like Reply Link Flag
- The purpose of CS is not to be vocational, but to provide the students with the principles that are needed to design, build, and analyze computer systems.
Now if you are saying that CS people don't understand business well enough to function in today's corporate environment, this may well be true. It also may be true that the best and brightest don't go into the MIS programs. But this is NOT what is being preached to Congress by Gates, etc. If there is truly a shortage of competent, capable, business-oriented MIS-trained Americans, this is what those who advocate H1B cap lifting should say. Instead, they are complaining that there aren't enough qualified people to do CS based on a presumed lack of academic talent, when it is clear that such people have been laid off and forced into other fields that recognize their acheivements, or pursue those fields prior to entering the workforce instead of CS.
- Like Link Flag
- There are 400,000 few jobs in silicon valley since year 2000.
- There are 400,000 few jobs in silicon valley
since year 2000.
I know people who have been withdrawing from
their home equity and 401Ks to live off of since
they are unemployed for around 6 years.
Most lost their jobs to H1Bs and L1s because
they get paid 1/2 as much as an American
engineer. Most had to train the immigrant
in the job before they were laid off. It
happened to me and most of my friends in
electronics. I would guess there is greater
60% unemployment in the over 45 year old
engineers in electronics. Yes, over half of the
45 year old engineers are out of work in
electronics. But they are not
counted as unemployed if you are out of work
more than 6 months.
These guys are brilliant engineers with 20 years
of work experience. Their only fault was they
were making more than an H1b would work for.
- Like Reply Link Flag

subset: commoncrawl


text:
A Brilliant Distinction Between Historic and Hysteric Fundamentalism
Just when we thought it was safe again to call ourselves "fundamentalists" yet another person trying to cling to the subculture of hysteric fundamentalism has risen from the ashes to "warn" of the "evils" of younger fundamentalists falling into the clutches of Calvinism. While it is not surprising to hear this type of rhetoric from those trying to cling to the already dying movement of the militant brand of fundamentalism of yesteryear, it was a bit surprising to hear this coming from a meeting of the Fundamentalist Baptist Fellowship International where Pastor Dan Sweatt of Berean Baptist Church in Lilburn, Georgia gave a message entitled "Young and Restless". This message has been critiqued, applauded and dissected by others within in the blogosphere so that will not be my aim here. I only know a couple of men associated with the FBFI movement. Both of whom I hold in high regard and both represent what I would call the historic brand of fundamentalism.
I will, however, focus on what I feel was a brilliant assessment by Dr. Kevin Bauder of the sermon and an unveiling of the message's weaknesses and characterizations of young fundamentalists who lean Calvinistic. You can read the essay in it's entirety here.
Allow me to post a couple of excerpts from the article that I thought were insightful:
If you are a younger person listening to Pastor Sweatt, please do not think that you have to accept his perspectives in order to be considered a fundamentalist. Furthermore, if you are a Calvinist listening to Pastor Sweatt, please do not think that fundamentalism has no room for you. On the contrary, fundamentalism has always had a strongly Calvinistic strand, and it always will.
Nevertheless, Pastor Sweatt has placed us in a very difficult situation. In a public venue, as a spokesman for fundamentalism, Pastor Sweatt has impugned the doctrinal integrity of his brethren. He has made charges without evidence and uttered recriminations that are simply false. Those of us who are leaders within fundamentalism have a stewardship, and we cannot afford simply to sweep this scandal under the rug.
You can hear Pastor Sweatt's message here. I realize that I am one of many who have blogged on this message. Blogs transcending lines from young fundamentalist, a couple with fundamentalist ties in the past here and here and even someone who is considered evangelical have all taken notice of Dr. Bauder's take on this. So I'm certain that I am not offering anything new here.
But what baffles my mind as someone who considers himself a young Calvinist fundamentalist (who some would call a "former" fundamentalist) is how this movement over the years still fails to humbly learn the lessons that needed to be learned over the past several decades that showed the isolated sects of the movement completely abandoned the principles of historic fundamentalism for a "shock and awe" and cult of personality movement that settled for aberrant theology, shallow methodology and a dictator structured ecclesiosology.
Labels: Dr. Kevin Bauder, fundamentalism, hysteric fundamentalism


text:
- Willamette
- College of Law
- Resources
- Journals
- Willamette Law Online
- Oregon Court of Appeals
- 2013
- Garrett Hemann Robertson, P.C. v. Winn
Oregon Court of Appeals
Garrett Hemann Robertson, P.C. v. Winn
Date Filed:
Case #: A150118
Sercombe, P.J. for the Court; Haselton, C.J.; and Hadlock, J.
Full Text Opinion: http://www.publications.ojd.state.or.us/docs/A150118.pdf
Contract Law: Arbitration exception orders are not appealable under any provision of law
Amber Rene Winn (Winn) appealed from an order granting Garrett Hemann Robertson, P.C.'s (Robertson) motion to be exempted from mandatory arbitration. Robertson law firm represented Winn in her dissolution of marriage and subsequently owed Hermann attorney fees at the end of representation. Hermann filed a complaint alleging a breach of contract claim for $16,159.85 and an action to foreclose an attorney lien on real property. The trial court entered an order referring the action to court-mandated arbitration based on the previous holding in Garrett Hemann Robertson PC v. Worden in which the court stated, "the {arbitration exemption] order is not appealable under either ORS 19.205 or ORS 36.730, or any other provision of law". This court has concluded that he appeal should be dismissed because an order upholding an exemption from arbitration is not appealable. Appeal dismissed.


text:
DOCTORS in Canada are planning to destroy the immune systems of people with multiple sclerosis in a bid to beat the disease.
Mark Freedman and Harold Atkins, both at the Ottawa Hospital, will start a trial this autumn on 30 patients with very severe MS. Although the procedure is very risky, "there's a 95 per cent chance they'll be in a wheelchair in ten years, no matter what we do", says Freedman.
MS is an autoimmune disease in which a sufferer's immune system attacks myelin, the fatty material that insulates cells in the nervous system, leading to vision problems, numbness in the limbs and at times severe loss of motor control.
The researchers plan to destroy the immune system with drugs in the hope that whatever component triggered the attack on the central nervous system will also be wiped out.
After zapping the patients' immune systems, the researchers will re-infuse ...
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text:
(Sunday, December 26th)
Final Score: Indianapolis 31, Oakland 26
Oakland, CA (Sports Network) - Peyton Manning threw three touchdown passes, and the Indianapolis Colts inched closer to their second straight AFC South title with a 31-26 victory over the Oakland Raiders.
Manning completed 16-of-30 passes for 179 yards and two interceptions for the Colts (9-6), who have won three in a row, including a big 34-24 win over the Jaguars last weekend. Indianapolis and Jacksonville entered play Sunday with the same record, but the Jaguars lost to the Redskins in overtime. A win by the Colts over the Titans next week gives Indy the division crown. The Colts can also secure the division title with a Jaguars loss at Houston.
"We have to try to find a way to win next week," Manning said. "It's really hard to get a summary and try to put it in perspective. We've definitely dealt with different things. Maybe it's been different in years past, (we've had) different guys playing each week."
Dominic Rhodes carried the ball 17 times for 98 yards. Joseph Addai returned to the lineup after missing seven games with a neck injury and rushed for 45 yards and a score on 12 carries.
Jacob Tamme caught seven passes for 78 yards and a touchdown for Indianapolis, which also got receiving TDs from Pierre Garcon and Blair White.
Jason Campbell connected on 29-of-42 passes for 231 yards and a touchdown for the Raiders (7-8), who were eliminated from playoff contention after Kansas City beat Tennessee. The Chiefs won the AFC West.
"There's a ton of improvement, but we're disappointed because we really wanted the chance to see if we could be a playoff team this year," Raiders coach Tom Cable said. "Our goals have to change for the last week."
Darren McFadden carried the ball 11 times for 45 yards. Zach Miller caught nine passes for 66 yards and a score.
Jacoby Ford returned the opening kickoff 99 yards for a touchdown to put Oakland ahead early.
Following four punts, the Colts took over at their own 43 with 8:16 left. Manning threw three passes of over 13 yards to set up Indy at the six-yard line. Addai then scampered into the end zone to make it 7-7.
The Colts bridged the first and second quarters with an 11-play, 50-yard drive. Adam Vinatieri capped the march with a 30-yard field goal for a 10-7 edge with 14:51 remaining until half.
Sebastian Janikowski made field goals of 59 and 38 yards to give the Raiders a 13-10 lead with 1:55 to go.
Manning led the Colts on an eight-play, 88-yard drive before the half. Faced with a 2nd-and-17 from the Oakland 43, the Raiders were called for defensive pass interference. On the next play, Tamme caught an 18-yard TD pass to give Indy a 17-13 lead at the break.
Janikowski cut the gap to 17-16 on a 51-yard field goal with 7:53 left in the third.
Following a pair of punts, Indianapolis took over at its own 44. A defensive pass interference penalty set up the Colts at the 12. Two plays later, White stretched the ball across the right pylon to complete a four-yard score and 24-16 lead.
The second play of the fourth quarter resulted in Chris Johnson intercepting Manning. Oakland took over at the 37-yard line of the Colts. The Raiders, though, only managed to get a 45-yard Janikowski field goal to make it 24-19 with 12:59 to play.
Indianapolis responded with a touchdown to essentially put the game out of reach. Addai?s 18-yard run set up the Colts at the Oakland 29. Faced with a 3rd-and-9, Manning threw a 13-yard pass to Tamme. Then on 3rd-and-2, Garcon hauled in a seven-yard TD pass for a 31-19 margin with 7:38 remaining.
Miller caught a six-yard TD pass with 1:51 left to cut the gap to 31-26, but Oakland failed to get the onsides kick.
Manning sealed the victory with a 27-yard run on third down.
Game Notes
The Raiders lead the all-time series, 7-5, but the Colts have won the last three meetings...Garcon caught three passes for 35 yards...Indianapolis had 370 yards of total offense, compared to 290 for the Raiders...The last time the Colts missed the playoffs was 2001.


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Environmental Issues: Energy
Energy Main Page
All Documents in Energy Tagged gas prices
- Fighting Oil Addiction
Ranking States' Gasoline Price Vulnerability and Solutions for Change
Issue Paper
- To curb America's perilous addiction to oil, we need effective government policies that will increase the availability of efficient vehicles and clean fuels and that will promote smart growth and public transit. This November 2012 paper updates NRDC's research identifying the states that are most vulnerable to spikes in oil prices -- and those states that are doing the most to break their addiction to oil.
- Domestic Oil Drilling
Still Not a Solution to Rising Gas Prices
- More domestic oil drilling will have no effect on the current spike in gasoline prices. It's time to move beyond our dependence on oil and seek alternatives such as clean energy and fuel efficiency.
- High Gas Prices: Supply, Demand and the Oil Industry's Monopoly on Transportation
Efficiency and Better Cars Will Fuel America Faster than Drilling
- With such a meager share of global oil, no amount of domestic drilling will make a dent in our dependence on foreign imports, despite what Big Oil would have us believe. The only way to take back control over our energy future is to move toward more efficient cars and trucks, cleaner fuels, and more transportation options for Americans.
- Reducing the Need for U.S. Drilling Through Energy Efficiency
Fact Sheet
- The toll from the April 20 explosion on the Deepwater Horizon oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico is devastating. Nearly 4 million barrels of oil have poured into Gulf waters,1 destroying fragile marine and coastal ecosystems and inflicting untold economic damages on businesses and residents in the Gulf region. The effects of this spill -- one of the largest in history -- will be felt for generations. Get document in pdf.
Documents Tagged gas prices in All Sections
- Low-Carbon Fuel Standard
Helping California Break Its Addiction to Oil
Fact Sheet
- The best solution to dealing with volatile California gasoline prices is to use less oil and encourage greater investments in cleaner, alternative fuels that help diversify our fuel supply. California's low-carbon fuel standard is one of the state's key measures developed to do just that.
- Hybrid Values
Find out what makes a hybrid such a good buy, and learn what's on the market.
- If you're thinking of buying a hybrid, you're looking at a range of high-tech cars that get great gas mileage, cut polluting emissions and earn you a tax break. Find out what makes a hybrid such a good buy, and learn what's on the market.
- Clean Energy Saves Americans Money
Clean Energy is the Real Solution to Unpredictable Oil Prices
Fact Sheet
- Clean energy is cheaper and cleaner than oil, and the amount of fuel we can get from clean energy measures dwarfs what can be scraped from drilling. New NRDC analysis shows that, unlike dirty fuel options, clean energy strategies can actually save drivers money while reducing our oil dependency and slashing global warming pollution from the transportation sector. Get document in pdf.
- Clean Energy: The Solution to Volatile Gas Prices
Fact Sheet
- Newly updated NRDC analysis shows that the oil savings from clean energy measures can far outpace the potential oil production of drilling in America's protected areas. The real solution to volatile gas prices and oil dependency is a strategy that relies on energy efficiency, clean fuels, and transportation choices such as commuter rail -- not drilling. Get document in pdf.
For additional policy documents, see the NRDC Document Bank.
For older publications available only in print, click here.
Get Updates and Alerts
NRDC Gets Top Ratings from the Charity Watchdogs
- Charity Navigator awards NRDC its 4-star top rating.
- Worth magazine named NRDC one of America's 100 best charities.
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Related Stories
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Gnarly Adventurer
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Sparks, Maryland,USA
Oddometer: 469
A ride over Klausen
If I have any hope of traveling in Europe next summer I need not to work on my bikes and spend money on them this cold winter. So I invented a project for myself. I have started writing and illustrating some short stories about true happenings that have taken place on previous motorcycle trips. They are posted on my blog page of my website www.centuryofspeed.com as well as here. I am also inviting other riders to send me their short stories and I will illustrate them as well.
Here is the first story.
A Ride Up The Klausen Pass
I once had a very eventful ride up the pass traveling west to east from Aldorf. As soon as the road narrowed and started to climb and twist I could hear over the wind and engine noise of my bike, a sound from lower down the switchbacks, of a fantastic high revving engine accelerating and shifting repeatedly. Much sooner than I ever expected, I caught a flash of red in my mirror as I entered another tight hairpin. A second later we were both on the same short straight away. With a blast from his horn a super-wide Ferrari Testarossa squeezed me to the very outside edge of the narrow road surface, guarded only by a railing made of three inch steel pipe, and rocketed past. He was soon out of sight but not out of earshot. I listened to the song of his V-12 interrupted by an occasional horn toot as he continued toward the top of the pass. Not too long after, as I returned to my lost rhythm of rounding the ever-tightening hairpins, I came around a rocky inside wall to be confronted by a man waving his arms frantically. He had been heading down the mountain and had just jumped from the cab of his truck. The front of the truck hung over the edge of the road, one of its front wheels in mid-air over a drop of at least 100 ft. The truck had gone through the pipe guardrail and one of the horizontals had pierced his air-brake tank mounted on the outside of the chassis. I guess the loss of pressure had locked on the brakes and saved his life.
I pulled to a stop and listened to the drivers rant in one of the many Swiss dialects. I don't speak any of them but I do recognize the word Ferrari when I hear it. It did not take him long to realize I could be of no help. After a few minutes he calmed down, pulled out his cell phone and waved me on my way. I went on another few kilometers to the top of the pass and the Hotel Klausen-Passhohe. It was the old site of the hill climb finish line, the cars having started off from the far valley to the east. I pulled in and parked next to the wide red car. I walked into the cafe, peeled off some gear, sat down and asked for a coffee. Then I sat back and looked for the patron with the most gold jewelry.
Sparke screwed with this post 12-31-2010 at 02:55 PM
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Aberinkulas''s Gamespot Rank
Aberinkulas's Emblems
+1 Orator of Distinction
Because while everybody's got an opinion, some are better than others. This illustrious soul has volunteered to grace GameSpot's pages with an unforgettable editorial. It's the very definition of selflessness. Or, in some cases, self-indulgence.
Top 500 Community Reviewers
Some opinions are better than others. It's probably well worth listening to the individuals bearing this emblem, at least when it comes to getting good advice about which games to play and which games not to play. But when it comes to topics like cooking, religion, politics, stuff like that, you're still probably better off arguing with your parents or just keep all your feelings all bottled up inside.
Tagger Maker
Tagger Maker Awarded to those who've used the tagging system a good deal, enabling themselves and others to make it easier to find certain content.
E3 2010 Nintendo Conference Attendee
I was there for Nintendo's E3 2010 press conference! No really, I was. I even saw it live, with the 3DSs and the Metroids, and I've got this sweet achievement to prove it!
Hey look, it's a totally original dude wearing armor. With a huge gun and a helmet (a visor?). And he's riding a unicorn. This user was granted this magical emblem for not having any of their user profile images hosted on untrusted websites during The Great Purge of March 2013.


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Here's an environmental blog that gets straight to the heart of what's wrong with existing and planned "cap and trade" schemes to reduce global warming emissions with a free market in so-called "carbon credits." The biggest problem is that governments give away too many free credits, allowing heavy poilluters to buy the credits from other companies at a lower cost than going green.
The European Union's Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS), created in
2005, is the market example the rest of the world is watching to
possibly evolve into a global program. Allowance permits are given to
all companies; heavy polluters can then purchase the permits being sold
by companies that have reached emissions goals.
However, the program
has recently been criticized because too many companies are selling
their permits to raise money, thus flooding the market and driving down
prices. Lower prices benefit high polluters (e.g., oil companies) who
can then forgo greener policies by purchasing cheap permits.
Part of the problem is the slowing economy that is causing less
industrial activity and, in effect, less carbon is being produced.
Permits were also initially handed out for free, so companies are
selling them for pure profit. Officials worry that the simple solution
— removing some of the excess permits — could cause the entire system
to collapse because businesses will no longer have confidence in the
To say nothing of the fact that under this kind of carbon trading, corporations selling the credits get all the profit, while consumers pay all the costs of carbon reduction.


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While the forthcoming United Nations World Tourism Organisation General Assembly to be co-hosted by Zimbabwe and Zambia at the Victoria Falls provides a rare and exciting opportunity for the two SADC nations to showcase their world class tourist attractions, recent pronouncements by Canada that it is withdrawing from the world tourism body is an act of aggression.
Canadian Foreign Minister John Baird recently announced that his country was pulling out of the UNWTO in protest over President Robert Mugabe's appointment as a special tourism ambassador.
Such a hostile gesture by Canada towards Zimbabwe is not new. The country has hitherto been religiously campaigning for the barring of trade in Marange diamonds alleging that the gems were tainted by unfounded human rights abuses at the diamond fields.
Its civic group, Partnership Africa Canada, had been unrestrainedly publicising abrasive and unverifiable reports claiming that the Government of Zimbabwe was perpetrating human rights abuses at the Chiadzwa diamond fields and thus should be expelled from the Kimberly Process Certification Scheme and its gems blacklisted as "blood diamonds".
To further embolden its stranglehold on Zimbabwe's diamond trade, Canada and its imperial acolytes were at it again during the just ended KPCS intercessional meeting in the United States.
In order to scupper diamond trade in Zimbabwe and other developing nations, the cabal of Western aggressors wanted to push for the broadening of the definition of conflict diamonds to include the so-called "human rights issues" which they exclusively blame on countries deemed antagonistic to their hegemonic designs.
Other than this laughable proposal, Canada and its allies also wanted to outsource the KPCS secretariat to perennially biased neo-colonial organisations as an intrusive measure to continually scuttle diamond trade in revolutionary countries like Zimbabwe.
Canada's bellicose motive has always been to further strangle the besieged economy of Zimbabwe after realising that the Chiadzwa gems have become a lifeline to the country's limping economy in face of the suffocating Western sanctions.
Without losing sight of its avowed mission to vilify Zimbabwe, Canada is now targeting another pillar of the Zimbabwean economy, its tourism sector. According to the 2011 World Tourism Report, Zimbabwe's tourism sector is second in Africa after South Africa, a gargantuan feat which could substantially be boosted when the country co-hosts the UNTWO summit in August 2012.
Canada could not digest such a positive prospect for Zimbabwe hence its frenetic attempt to scupper the successful holding of the world tourism summit.
One cannot help but ask why the North American country is unremittingly acrimonious towards a peace-loving and non-aggressive African country like Zimbabwe. It is clear that Canada really has a axe to grind with Zimbabwe and has adopted economic sabotage as its weapon of choice. The question is why?
The answer could be found on Canada's political background. Canada is presently an occupied state with Queen Elizabeth II of England being its head of state. The aboriginal people of Canada have been vanquished and their land and resources expropriated by colonial settlers.
The settlers are palpably frightened by Zimbabwe because it stands as an illuminating example of how dispossessed indigenous people can repossess their sprawling resources snatched from them by the bigoted imperialist settlers. The Canadians, like all other settlers, fear the ripple effects that the resource redistribution programmes in Zimbabwe will have on other similarly disenfranchised and disinherited people of this world. Events in Zimbabwe could trigger similar actions by the aborigines of Canada.
Already the contagion effect of Zimbabwe's revolutionary efforts is being felt in South Africa, where the ANC's Youth League is now actively stoking the fires of land and mineral reclamation thus raffling the feathers of the die hard apartheid functionaries who are frantically trying to protect their ill-gotten wealth. This is what the Canadians and their other imperial acolytes want nipped in the bud before it spreads like cancerous cells to other corners of the globe.
Canada has indisputably declared war on Zimbabwe for its revolutionary pursuits. This is an open war.
In face of such belligerence, we can no longer afford to keep on giving the other cheek. It is high time we counter these acts of aggression. I stand guided by one of the resolutions at the Zanu-PF 2010 Conference in Mutare that urged "the party to take counter measures through Government against those foreign companies, institutions and entities whose home countries continue to impose and maintain sanctions against Zimbabwe, including raising the indigenisation threshold beyond the 51 percent provided in the current law."
We know that among other business interests, Canadians operate Caledonia Mine and we should ensure that such business interests are reclaimed and redistributed to indigenous people. If possible we should just sever diplomatic ties with this country just as we did with the Commonwealth group for our relationship with it is irretrievably poisoned.
Tendai Moyo is a researcher and social commentator


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Park Offers Prowl For Owls
Posted: November 1, 2012 at 3:56 a.m.
Hobbs State Park-Conservation Area has set two owl prowls for 6:30 p.m. on Saturday and another at 5:30 p.m. on Nov. 10.
This story is only available from our archives.
Outdoor, Pages 7 on 11/01/2012
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Fishing opens today at Oklahoma's two year-round trout streams. Read »
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It hit me like a blast from the north that fall is getting away and I'd yet to savor the color from a bicycle seat along the Katy Trail. Read »


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Two Lions Selected Regional All-Americans
Dec. 3, 2004
LOS ANGELES, Calif. - Senior Matt Kovar and sophomore Bobby Burling were named NSCAA Far West Region All-Americans, announced today. Kovar was named to the first team, while Burling was a third team honoree. It is the second time that Kovar has been named a Far West Region All-American, earning third team honors in 2002. It is the first All-American honor for Burling.
Kovar, the WCC's Defender of the Year, was LMU's top defender this season. The first-team All-WCC selection helped the Lions limit opponents to no more than two goals during WCC play. He had two goals and five assists this year, and four of his assists were in conference play. His second goal of the year tied the game in the final minutes against Saint Mary's, and he assisted on two game winning goals against Portland and San Diego. He tied for fifth for assists in conference games, and recorded 24 shots on the year. He was named the WCC Player of the Week, and to Soccer America's Team of the Week after leading the defense to two shutouts wins over Gonzaga and Portland.
Burling finished the season with three goals and four assists on the year. The tall physical forward started 21 of 22 games for the Lions. He scored two goals in LMU's 4-2 win over San Diego, including the game-winner, and added a goal against Wake Forest. He assisted on the game-winning goal in LMU's 1-0 win over Portland, and recorded assists over Southwest Missouri State, Saint Mary's and Portland.
The Lions finished the season with a 11-8-3 record, and advanced to the second round of the NCAA Tournament. The Lions finished second in the conference with an 8-3-1 record.
All players on the regional All-American teams are now eligible for the national All-American teams to be released later this month.
Below are the 2004 NSCAA Division I Men's All-American Soccer Far West Region Teams:


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|History ON
Liquor and Accommodation Act 1990 (No. 44 of 1990)
|Requested: 4 Jul 2015
|Consolidated as at: Sessional
206. Licensing Board
(1) There is established a Licensing Board.
(2) The Board consists of
appointed by the Governor.
(a) a presiding member; and
(b) 2 other members
(3) One member of the Board shall be a legal practitioner.
(4) The Governor may appoint a deputy of a member of the Board.
(5) The deputy of the member referred to in subsection (3) shall be a legal practitioner.
(6) If a member is absent from a meeting of the Board the member's deputy may attend, and, when doing so, is to be taken to be a member.
(7) When the deputy of the presiding member attends a meeting of the Board the deputy is to be taken to be the presiding member.
(8) A member or deputy member holds office for the term set out in his or her instrument of appointment.
(9) A member or deputy member may resign at any time by giving written notice of resignation to the Minister.
(10) It is a term of the appointment of a member or deputy member that the Governor may terminate the appointment at any time for inability, inefficiency, misbehaviour or physical or mental incapacity.
(11) The quorum for a meeting of the Board is 2.
(12) A member or deputy member is to be paid a remuneration and allowances determined by the Governor.
(13) Except as otherwise provided in this Act, the Board may regulate its proceedings.


text:
In trading on Monday, shares of CH Energy Group, Inc. (NYSE: CHG) crossed above their 200 day moving average of $65.20, changing hands as high as $65.25 per share. CH Energy Group, Inc. shares are currently trading up about 0.2% on the day. The chart below shows the one year performance of CHG shares, versus its 200 day moving average:
Click here to find out which 9 other energy stocks recently crossed above their 200 day moving average, at Energy Stock Channel »
Looking at the chart above, CHG's low point in its 52 week range is $56.78 per share, with $67.48 as the 52 week high point — that compares with a last trade of $65.25.
Special Offer: Free Sample Issue to the Preferred Stock List Newsletter plus 20% OFF your subscription
According to the ETF Finder at ETF Channel, CHG makes up 4.30% of the S&P SmallCap Utilities Portfolio ETF (NASD: PSCU)which is trading lower by about 0.2% on the day Monday.
See what other ETFs contain CHG »
See what other stocks are held by PSCU »


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Haworth is a quaint, historical village located in the heart of West Yorshire's Bronte Country. The village, which rests above the Worth Valley within the Pennine Moors, is globally recognized for its connections to the Bronte Sisters.
On June 29th we will be visiting and hiking around Hawes which is the middle of the Yorkshire Dales National Park. This town will be part of stage one of the Tour de France on Saturday July 5th. Hawes is also famous for producing "real" Wenslaydale cheese.


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Just hours after garnering a top-five ranking in the ESPN/USA Today Coaches Poll, the UK men's basketball team did one better in the Associated Press Poll.
The Cats are ranked No. 4 in the preseason AP poll, the highest ranking since the Cats checked in at No. 4 in week 17 of the 2004-05 season. It is also the highest preseason ranking since the 2001-02 season, when the AP voted UK at No. 4.
Kansas is the runaway preseason No. 1 choice in the AP, picking up 55 of the 65 first-place votes. Michigan State, Texas, UK and Villanova round out the top five. Kentucky picked up three of the first-place votes.
Southeastern Conference foe Tennessee is ranked No. 10, and SEC West favorite Mississippi State is No. 18, according to the ballots. Four other SEC teams - Vanderbilt, Florida, South Carolina and Ole Miss - received votes.


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Monique Jacobson was appointed by Governor Susanna Martinez to be the Secretary of Tourism for New Mexico in January 2011. Raised in Taos, Jacobson attended Sandia Prep and earned a degree in economics from the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School of Business. Prior to returning to New Mexico, she held several positions at PepsiCo including… Read more »
Monthly Archives: February 2012
Can You Say Hooky?
hooky (n.) \ˈhu̇-kē\ : truant — used chiefly in the phrase play hooky. If you like to ski and have ever considered playing hooky, tomorrow would be the time. I skied Santa Fe ski basin today, just 20 minutes from La Fonda's front door, and it was snowing this morning when we arrived, snowed all day and it… Read more »


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The Orioles have made two roster moves today, selecting the contracts of outfielders Endy Chavez and L.J. Hoes from Triple-A Norfolk. To make room on the 40-man roster, they have designated right-hander Kevin Gregg and infielder Ryan Adams for assignment.
Gregg's departure came as a shock to the other pitchers on the staff, and the reliever said he was "really disappointed" to be leaving the O's in the middle of a playoff push.


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Advantage Scrap Metal Recycling, Inc. filed as a Articles of Incorporation in the State of California on Thursday, March 1, 2007 and is approximately eight years old, as recorded in documents filed with California Secretary of State. The filing is currently active as of the last data refresh which occured on Sunday, June 22, 2014.
Zhan Chen serves as the President
Zhan Zhao Chen is also the registered agent for the company. Also known as a statutory or resident agent, the registered agent is responsible for receiving legal notifications regarding court summons, lawsuits, and other legal actions involving the corporate entity.
Key roles for Advantage Scrap Metal Recycling, Inc.
Zhan Zhao Chen
|Filing Type:
|Articles of Incorporation
|State ID:
|Date Filed:
|Thursday, March 1, 2007
|Registered Agent
|Zhan Zhao Chen
Comprehensive Insight Plus Report
|Learn More
|The D&B Comprehensive Insight Plus Report for Advantage Scrap Metal Recycling, Inc. combines D&B's proprietary statistical scoring with business, payment and financial information all in one report.
US Company Profile Report
|Learn More
|The D&B U.S. Company Profile contains basic information such as address and telephone number, executive names and titles, line of business and SIC codes, D-U-N-S Numbers, organization status, and year and location of incorporation for Advantage Scrap Metal Recycling, Inc..


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The reception is for your guests, but the ceremony is for you! Recently seen on TLC's "Four Weddings" and Oprah Network's "Don't Tell...
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Captain CW Davis is licensed to perform ceremonies on land or sea in NY and NJ.
As featured on "Glam Fairy" & WPLJ-FM. I'm a fun wedding/baptism officiant. I'll make your guests smile & also make it so meaningful!...
We perform non-religious, semi-religious, and Christian ceremonies for an affordable fee! Optional ceremony music is also provided! Most couples on a (more)
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ACKERMAN — Funeral services for Harold R. Starnes will be held at 11 a.m. Thursday, Sept. 15, at Coleman Funeral Home with Rev. Justin Knight officiating.
Burial will be at Salem Independent Methodist Church Cemetery near Ackerman with Coleman Funeral Home in charge of arrangements.
Visitation will be 5-8 p.m. tonight at Coleman Funeral Home.
Mr. Starnes, 82, of Ackerman, died Sept. 12, 2011, at North Mississippi Medical Center in Eupora.