text:
- Sunny Qureshi
- Karachi Sindh
- Pakistan
CEO, IQ Training & Consultancy
This conversation is closed.
Can we prove Aristotle's "Prime Mover":Everything that happens is caused by something else?Then what caused the first cause?
The cause of the universe might be eternal, thus eliminating the need for a cause. As people have accepted the Big Bang Theory, so this objection has fallen out of favor.
It is worth pointing out that time is an aspect of the universe,without the universe, there is no time. It has existed at every point in time and that at no point in time has there been no universe.
1.Everything that exists or begins to exist has a cause?
2. Universe began to exist therefore it has a cause "the first cause" or was the matter already present that caused it?
4. If it was the first cause then what caused the first cause?
Closing Statement from Sunny Qureshi
The Debate was a mixture of philosophical and scientific arguments presented by members.
The question still remains unanswered as both schools of thought were inconclusive on the God or no God debate.
The problem is of the fact that both atheists and theists are both opposed to each others "belief". Even in science, hypothesisation which is a kind of belief that has not been proved exists.
This debate and other debates will remain inconclusive unless and until a Collaborative stance is not adopted by the two.
Feb 18 2012: Its not something that can be answered (atleast to any legitimate standard) at present and trying to do so without all required information typically results in a false conclusion,
For example, In 450BC Greece we knew that:
-If we throw something upwards it comes back down
-Gas disperses
-Every fire requires an igniter
Therefore : Balls of gas in the sky that burns must require someone to light them and hold them up.
This is ofcourse nonsense because we know that the environment of space and the environment of Earth are entirely different and there are a number of other variables unaccounted for. This is much the same case with this question. (Eternal, first cause, infinite causality, uncaused cause, something else..)
It would be better for further information to present itself through further technological exploration, else we're just relying on philosophy which can't actually account for the real answer either.
'The cause of the universe might be eternal, thus eliminating the need for a cause. As people have accepted the Big Bang Theory, so this objection has fallen out of favor.'
Not necessarily. There are variation on the big bang and its introduction to existence. A number of multiverse theories both account for the big bang and a preexisting environment that may or may not be eternal.
Feb 20 2012: Scientists are convinced that our universe began with one enormous explosion of energy and light, which we now call the Big Bang. This was the singular start to everything that exists: the beginning of the universe, the start of space, and even the initial start of time itself.
Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow, a self-described agnostic, stated, "The seed of everything that has happened in the Universe was planted in that first instant; every star, every planet and every living creature in the Universe came into being as a result of events that were set in motion in the moment of the cosmic explosion...The Universe flashed into being, and we cannot find out what caused that to happen."
Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate in Physics, said at the moment of this explosion, "the universe was about a hundred thousands million degrees Centigrade...and the universe was filled with light."
The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter.
Robert Jastrow; "Message from Professor Robert Jastrow"; LeaderU.com; 2002.
Steven Weinberg; The First Three Minutes: A Modern View of the Origin of the Universe; (Basic Books,1988); p 5.
Feb 21 2012: @Franciz why dnt you go beyond that, it has already been mentioned above that the "MATTER" was already there and it simply transformed as sated by Linda Taylor above
Feb 23 2012: No i wont go beyond it, going beyond the limit is prohibited, i have my own views and thus you should stick to yours dear friendFeb 20 2012: Thankyou Xavier for your contribution specially this one :"It would be better for further information to present itself through further technological exploration, else we're just relying on philosophy which can't actually account for the real answer either."
My question: , Can we explore farther than what the divine books have told us, that is from mother nature, reproduction to the universe? Science ironically is proving what the religious books have revealed some 1800 years back?Mar 13 2012: The problem, as I see it, in asking what caused the "first cause" is that it begs the question. If you actually had a "first cause" then it would not need a cause insofar as it is the "first." If one is going to utilize Scholastic (Thomistic) arguments for the existence of God, then what about the following.
There are three possibilities for the the existence of the universe:
1. It is Uncaused
2. Self-caused
3. Caused
The universe cannot be uncaused since it exists.
It cannot be self-caused since it would have to first "not exist" in order to need causing.
Yet, it would have to exist in order to have the ability to cause.
It's absurd to conclude that the universe was in a state of existence and non-existence in order to cause it's own existence.
Therefore, the universe must have had a cause by another source.
I once heard a scientist say that he believed the universe was uncaused, and has always existed. My question is that is if it's acceptable to have an uncaused universe, why would it not be acceptable to have a creator that is uncaused? When a member of the scientific community argues for the eternal existence of the universe, do they not commit the same fallacy as the theologian who agues for the eternal existence of God?
Gabo Moreno
Mar 13 2012: It's not the "same fallacy" because an uncaused reality does not need you to accept the existence of anything else but reality itself, while adding a creator sounds a lot like mere, and unnecessary, fantasy.
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Interesting though that the opposite tends to be true, that those arguing for a god don't even imagine that we could stop in the realm of the real, of nature itself. They can't grasp the concept.
[EDIT: There are many other things wrong with David's comment, but I think the answers for those other wrongs were provided by some other commenter here before.]
Mar 14 2012: Gabo :
I'm answering to your last reply to me .I was a bit busy in the last time .
My idea was simple : to say that no god exist because there are so many claimed to exist it's obviously fallacious because there is a logical possibility one of them to exist and the rest to be square circles . If you think according to this logical possibility you can start 'narrow it down' .
Of course you can think that none of them is existing even though it wasn't proven they all were made up as you suggested .
I can't get to the true one by pure reason (not only by reason) , guiding me after some facts maybe I could but then it wouldn't be by pure reason . For example : I never excluded the possibility of seeing God and after that to think reasonable (by reason) that God exist . I never excluded the personal experiences , you remember that ?
How the hell do I do that ? you know we have some 'revelations' , with their help ........ or maybe contacting God .
Why would I bring you evidence ? if I can't , what about it ? if you wanna know if God exist or not go get them yourself , God to take care of Himself sharing them to you , why don't you try to contact Him ?
Gabo Moreno
Mar 14 2012: You would have to read what I wrote again Eduard, because you are not making sense of what I said, but perhaps of what you think I said (I know you are talking about the "intellectual bankruptcy" conversation). Read carefully and you might notice. Try hard and understand what I said before attempting another answer.
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Thanks.Mar 16 2012: I think I did understand what you said : -it makes much more sense in your opinion to start by thinking that gods are made up until proven otherwise because you say there aren't reasons why one god would exist . You asked me also to bring you some evidences why would one god exist . Until then you say it's more logical to think that the all gods are made up .
Yes, I know what you meant when you told me to read again .
It's pretty logical what you said but it's not an answer to my idea (stated again in my last reply) :
-I talked about possibilities , if we had have evidence for one possibility we wouldn't have called it possibility , we would have called it 'reality' . Therefore I don't need evidences to think at a possibility and to try to figure out if it can be part of reality or not .
Should I ask you to read again my comments ?
And you continue : it is worse you say to try to 'narrow it down' as long as I agree with you that by reason we can't get to god , in other words evidences are from the start excluded . My reply : well , I talked about 'pure reason' and about reason if nothing, let's say, special don't happen . But if it does , we can get to god by reason . In other words everything ends up to a kind of another of revelation . This is why also I replied at :' how the hell do I do that ?" by saying to contact the gods to see if they answer, or by saying to look in their revelations to can understand a bit what are we dealing with ..... and so on .
I thank you for your time and patience ........... never forget (as long as we'll continue to meet here on Ted) , I'm not afraid to be found wrong and neither of hard words .Mar 16 2012: And by the way , your idea that God is evil/impotent because He created us defective as long as it is in relation with the Bible it's pure nonsense : God according to the Bible created us perfect and defective at the same time , this simply because He created us perfect beings and not gods . It's a kind of saying we have a negative quality
You can't say a toy car company is 'impotent' because creates toy cars and not real cars .
. As I said then I don't know why God did this and I can't label it as wrong and bad , in fact no human being can . It is proven more and more that your understanding of the Bible is defective (if I use the same word) .
Another thing that was nonsensical at you is that you seem to have tried to found the wrongs in the Bible than to try to understand it (this is about your arguments from the same reply then). See the big picture first and after that we'll take care of unimportant (from the Bible perspective) claims like :
-who killed who from whose order
- the idea that the light existed before being created the stars ; in fact here we have the whole idea about creation ..... and so on.
Gabo Moreno
Mar 17 2012: You cannot be perfect and defective at the same time. That's too obvious nonsense. Creating beings knowing that most would go to hell is either evil or incompetence (or both). Period. No discussion. Your god is a square circle.
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I read the bible trying to understand Eduard. I heard it all. I found the defects in all the answers. the special pleadings, the non-sequiturs, the contradictions, the equivocations, the false premises. I heard all the excuses, I heard all whatever. In the end, to believe that the Christian god is real requires you to believe that first, and that whatever we can't answer is because this god is incomprehensible. That we can't know why a perfect god would create to later get angry, for example drowning its failed creation out of anger as if this was the creation's fault. Sending so many to hell. We don't know, but "God" must have a perfect reason. Right. With that position, all gods will end up being real. You can't take this position of "god is love even if I don't have answers to obvious logical problems" with your god, and yet reject all the other gods. That would mean that you are reading the Koran just to find the worse in it ... the Popolvuh just to find the worst in it ... and so on.Mar 17 2012: It is just special pleading not special pleading law
It basically says that in order to favor one outcome, a person makes special allowances for that outcome. without giving any tangible evidence as to why that particular outcome should be allowed those special allowances and not the rest of the outcomes. In case of the Kalam argument, it gives a rule. "Everything has a cause" But it is making a special plea for God, by saying that God is a special case and requires no previous cause. Why? Why should this cause it calls God be granted an exemption to the cause-effect rules. If you are going to grant exemptions why not give that exemption to Big Bang lets say and be done with it.Mar 7 2012: It is worth noting that the big bang theory does not necessarily conflict with the idea of an eternal universe; consider, for example, the cyclic model of the universe proposed by Steinhardt and Turok (I haven't looked directly at their research, but they have an excellent pop science book called "Endless Universe").
You may already be aware of this, but what you're asking is very similar to asking "Does the Kalām cosmological argument stand up to scrutiny?"
As such, my recommendation to you would be to search the internet for people arguing for and against this argument.
A good place to start is, as always, Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kal%C4%81m_cosmological_argument
(see also the video at the end of this post)
I'm a university Physics student planning on getting my Master's in theoretical physics, but I'd be lying if I said I understood much about the science of the early universe. As such, I won't try to account for modern theories of the beginning of the universe. I would however like to make one more reflection:
A common feature of these discussions is "the law of cause and effect"; causality. I'd like to point out that this law is based on observations made within the universe; between different events in spacetime.
If there was no time before the big bang, we cannot assume that the law of cause and effect holds sway here.
We can ask if it's still valid; we can posit it as a hypothesis and see where it takes us. What we can't do, however, is to use it as proof for anything until we've shown that it's actually valid. If we do, we have to rely on an appeal to intuition...
...and while intuition is a great tool, and not to be underestimated, in science, it takes a back seat to evidence.
Rhona Pavis
Feb 19 2012: Somebody dropped something and it fell on something and that got the whole thing rolling. I'm wondering about homeostasis. I want explanations. What is causing the dynamism of our adorable universe, I wonder. Perhaps the first cause continues causing effects. I would think that equilibrium would happen and everything would be still. Kindly explain everything about reality that I do not presently understand. Thank you very much.
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Feb 20 2012: Please clarify instead of putting you question in a philosophical argument. maybe i can be of your assistance here. RegardsFeb 20 2012: Dear Rhona, Thank you for an excellent argument, I usually hear from people all the time who have been trying to create something new in their life and feel discouraged when it doesn't happen quickly enough. All discouragement is in these situations is homeostasis using your emotional system to keep you in line, to keep things the way they are. Imagine that all these elements of the life you are currently in are organized in a particular way and they are content to watch you there in the middle of it all wishing, wanting, working to make it change, frustrated that it seems that everything is resisting what you want. The resistance is not your imagination. Rather it's the world around you simply doing its job. It is just the energetic fields of "reality" holding the orbits of the people and the circumstances together in the established and familiar way.
The world around us is beyond our control so any energy put towards controlling is not the best use of you. Imagine instead that at all times you are fully supported by the Universe. The serenity prayer says it best:
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.--Reinhold NiebuhrFeb 21 2012: [ Rhona Pavis - What is causing the dynamism of our adorable universe, I wonder. ]
The only existential imperative is survival, and it is expressed in a range of manners (relatively masculine and feminine). Activity pursues survival within the event trajectory, with each trajectory establishing a permanent informational continuum (fact clusters accurately placed within an informational representation of the trajectory itself) as a default emergence of permanent physical existence. That constantly emerging information (many, many event trajectories existing concurrently and consecutively, as you can imagine) sets and refines contextual precedence within each contextual environment and this manages progressive development in a default manner (it's called natural law by scientists). This default symbiosis between information and activity is the basis of all that increases, changes, and develops. It gets a lot more complicated than this, but there's no real way to detail it fully within a thread post.
Feb 21 2012: Well thank goodness then Kevin that there is more than one imperative. Not everything is a result of cause and effect. But you're right that it is the mating call of natural science:)
Feb 21 2012: Actually, only one imperative (survival), but several specific expressions that serve identity establishment and defense (as this is the primordial survival mechanism and definition of success) These expressions include (Masculine) competition, isolation, increase of in-kind complexity, and (Feminine) symbiosis, association. When an existential whole is complex (in ongoing structural development as an identified unique holon) the survival effort becomes more and more layered, involving both Masculine and Feminine expressions in shifting contextual balances. It gets pretty complicated once the holon entity has reached the level of complexity to be noticed by human perception. By then, the primordial nature of the enterprise itself can be difficult to recognize.
Linda Taylor
Feb 21 2012: Ah but your major underlying premise is that the only things that exist are humans (well, perhaps sexual lifeforms-I guess asexual lifeforms are outta luck) and the only imperative is survival. There are a whole HOST of other phenomena that occur outside of the scope of life. And that's where that imperative begins to fall apart.
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It's that whole humancentric philosophical part that I don't buy. Like life is more important than non-life. Hierarchical baloney. Life would not exist if it was not for the non-life. We tend to forget that as humans.
That humancentric stuff is the basis for all kinds of non-life abuse. Causes stuff like global warming, ecological damage, inappropriate utilization of resources....
Feb 24 2012: [Linda Taylor
3 days ago: Ah but your major underlying premise is that the only things that exist are humans (well, perhaps sexual lifeforms-I guess asexual lifeforms are outta luck) and the only imperative is survival.]
When I used the gender qualifiers, I wasn't referring to human beings or even life forms of any kind. Qualifiers are primordial - Truth is a qualifier, if that helps any.
I did mention human perception, but only in reference to how primordial drivers and qualifiers can become very vague if being examined by an epitome existential expression (like the human being). At that level, so much has been structured and affected that what ends up being most perceptible is subjective (relative) aspects that are the result of layers of survival driven interpretations. Hell, at that level nothing is objectively noted. Perception itself is incapable of objectivity.
Rhona Pavis
Feb 22 2012: Thank you, Kevin. During the majority of the time we live, I think we all take survival for granted. While we do, I think things like pleasure, happiness, joy, fun......stuff like that motivates human beings to move their muscles.Feb 24 2012: OK Mr. Carroll. I really am trying to understand because I truly do not. I am just asking for clarification.
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Gender = qualifiers = primordial : therefore : Gender = primordial
So why am I wrong that sexual beings are primordial and other stuff is not? How is a non-lifeform a gender?
Truth = qualifiers = primordial : therefore : truth = primordial
How much primordial stuff can you have in a world view? I guess, it's your world view so as much as you want.
But I completely disagree that human beings are anywhere near an epitome existential expression. But it is your hierarchy. I also disagree that survival is THE imperative. I have seen different and can illustrate. The only qualifier is who or what's survival. When you have that broad a definition of survival, meaning is lost. It is no longer an imperative. I do agree that at the level of survival, perception is incapable of objectivity. If survival is between you and me, I win. If it is between me and my kids, the kids win.Mar 17 2012: I would like to share something about kalam/special pleading as shared below by me it basically says that in order to favor one outcome, a person makes special allowances for that outcome. without giving any tangible evidence as to why that particular outcome should be allowed those special allowances and not the rest of the outcomes. In case of the Kalam argument, it gives a rule. "Everything has a cause" But it is making a special plea for God, by saying that God is a special case and requires no previous cause. Why? Why should this cause it calls God be granted an exemption to the cause-effect rules. If you are going to grant exemptions why not give that exemption to Big Bang lets say and be done with it.Mar 10 2012: 0 =+1 -1
Maybe there is negative version of our universe that cancels our one out.Mar 1 2012: very interesting question,
Here is an offering from my perspective. If we look at matter from a science point of view that everything is energy and that matter is energy condensed to a certain vibrational frequency. This would suggest that even before matter existed the intelligent energy that created it or chose to vibrate at this current frequencies level has eternally been there. If we look at time which means nothing in the flow of eternity... time began when matter began for time is nothing but a way to keep track of somethings distance from something elses in the field of matter itself.
In essence if everything came from that eternal energy that gave birth to matter itself than we are that source exploring itself and all that is capable. A process of evolution, for we can see that reguardless of the endless perspectives and opinions and the differences there of bottom line is, everything evolves. And its increasing exponentially, here in we can all form our own opinions and choose the ones that work best for our own personal paradigms. Knowing that there is never just one way to do something brings one to realize that its not really about one truth for truth is subjective depending on the beholder. Granted we all feel inclined to choose a path and believe in its results however those results limited by a restricted discipline wether that be dogmatic or unaccepted advanced science could be a drop in the bucket compared to things which are far beyond measurement with such tools.
Science has done studies where in they divided a single particle and they seperated its other half, hundreds to hundreds of thousands of miles from itself and whatever they subjected one half to the other registered it instantly reguardless the distance. Which proves even though we may feel seperate from that which created everything we are not and no matter the form or distance its all eternal and exploringly evolutional. Lol is that even a word? Well at any rate thats my take on it
Cyto Kine
Mar 13 2012: Anthony Rifflard said: "Science has done studies where in they divided a single particle and they separated its other half, hundreds to hundreds of thousands of miles from itself and whatever they subjected one half to the other registered it instantly regardless the distance. "
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This is a gross misunderstanding of quantum physics (I am giving you the benefit of the doubt by not calling it a misrepresentation). In the experiments you refer to, scientists have generated two dependent or "entangled" particles, separated them and then looked at one and, shockingly, the other is complementary. Anything they do with one oft he particles after this, however, is not registered by the other.
Let me give a more practical example. Say I took a doll, cut it in half at the waist and mailed one half to you and one to a colleague on the other side of the world. When you opened your package, not only would you know what you received, you would instantaneously (faster then the speed of light) know what was in the other package on the other side of the world. All very interesting, but manipulating your half of the doll will do nothing to the other half.
If your understanding was correct we could use the phenomenon to build a faster-than-light communication system that we could install in our intrastellar exploration vehicles (which would be just one of a vast array of cool things we could do). We don't because we can't. We can't because it just doesn't work like that.
I'm curious. You felt that your understanding "proves even though we may feel seperate from that which created everything we are not and no matter the form or distance its all eternal and exploringly evolutional (sic)." Now that you know that you misunderstood the science, does this then disprove that statement for you?
Ethan Rigby
Mar 1 2012: The argument uses Cause and Effect. If there is an effect there must be a cause to this effect, and in order to avoid infinite regress, there must exist a first cause that has effected and caused everything else, otherwise there would be no other causes.
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If we apply this to our existence, we are simply dependent on our cause, our parents, and they were caused by their parents and so on. to help us in our understanding, lets simplify things by supposing that only one thing exists right now, A1, which was brought into existence by, A2, which died shortly after A1 came into existence. Suppose that A2 was created by A3, and A3 by A4, and so on. We will call this a causal series. At this point nothing seems wrong with there existing a causal series that could go back infinitely, not being dependent on any one uncaused cause, but only on its predecessor.
A Cosmological argument, such as stated by Aristotle would say:
1.Every member of the collection of dependent beings has a cause or explanation.
2. The collection of dependent beings has a cause or explanation.
The argument fails to realize that for there to be an explanation of a collection of things is nothing more than for there to be an explanation of each of the things making up the collection. Since in the infinite collection of dependent beings, each being in the collection has an explanation- by having been caused by a preceding member of the collection- the explanation of the collection, so the criticism goes, has already been given. As David Hume said, 'Did i show you the particular causes of each individual in a collection of twenty particles of matter, I should think it very unreasonable, should you afterwards ask me, what was the cause of the whole twenty. This is sufficiently explained in explaining the cause of the parts.' It is certainly a mistake to think that a collection of stamps is itself a stamp, so it is a mistake to think that the collection of dependent beings, is itself a dependent being
Mind S
Feb 29 2012: Sunny said "I wonder may be this life is just a "Trial" in which at least i do not want to end up on the wrong side"
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"Trial" this is what "holy" books dictate and convey; it is a way to terrorize people. Religious people are more terrorized than being convinced. Like other believers you worry about the "eternal fire" and so you chose not to be "on the wrong side"; an example of Pascal Wager. When fear dominates, reason and logic retire. This is why I consider non-theists as courageous and brave people who rely on reason and logic to find knowledge instead of submitting to psychological fear created by Bronze age texts.
Mar 6 2012: Great quote Mind S when you mention "When fear dominates, reason and logic retire. This is why I consider non-theists as courageous and brave people who rely on reason and logic to find knowledge instead of submitting to psychological fear created by Bronze age texts."
By the way ever consider why these sacred texts / holy books, dictate & convey the same message of Armageddon , hell etc??. I think it was a way to discipline the people of that era who were indulged in chaos, immorality, obscenity etc. At the same time it is important to note here that things like, morality, ethical behavior, norms of the society all were a result of information provided in these religious books hundreds of years back. And what science proved today was somehow magically present then without all the new age gizmo stuff? These are the things that force us to think about religion/spirituality
People during the deadly tornado at kentucky, began praying, Why was praying the first thing that came to her mind? link attached below is quite evident of a spiritual connection that each one of us has during fear, we connect with god:
Comment deleted
Feb 27 2012: which breaks the "rule" that everything must have a cause.
perhaps there is a natural cause beyond most of our capacities to comprehend
perhaps there is a circle or sphere of causes that has no beginning or end.Feb 28 2012: So true GOD is the uncaused Cause
Feb 28 2012: Maybe. Which I acknowledge.
Maybe not. Which you seem reluctant to acknowledge.
And if there are gods they are probably not anything like described in any religion
Probably beyond our comprehension or imagination.Feb 27 2012: If you assume that everything has a cause then the first cause produced any result, even your question on this page.
All that has a begin must end. Anything only can begin within something existing.
In fact nothing begins for all things are a momentary transit by which the participating forces are composed untill they disintegrate into other things. All these forms are temporary the only thing not temporary is existence itself and the energy by which it is expressed.
Feb 28 2012: One idea that's being tossed around on this thread is that of a mere speculation/notion that there is no proof for God's existence.Of course such a notion is mistaken. Philosophical arguments to prove God exists are woefully ignored. Consider Saint Thomas Aquinas' argument on motion. Motion Exists. Motion can only be caused by other forms of motion. If you go back far enough you will find a primary unmoved mover. This is God.
The Cosmological argument is another simple argument. We know that everything that exists has a cause related to its existence. We know that the universe exists. Because it is exists it must have an uncaused cause. The uncreated cause is God.
Both of these arguments are dependant upon the universe having a beginning. If the universe is infinite, then a primary mover -- a creator -- has no place. However modern cosmology has determined the universe does have a beginning. The laws of thermodynamics have determined this. According to the second law of thermodynamics, we are running out of working energy. It's obvious that things wear down. If the universe were infinite then we would have run out by now.
Gabo Moreno
Feb 28 2012: Philosophical arguments for the existence of some sort of god are not woefully ignored, we have heard them, we have read them, we have found their fallacies upon fallacies, thus rejected them.
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Example, the cosmo-illogical argument, do we really know that everything that exists has a cause to its existence? Is that kind of existence the same as the universe would have started to exist? In other words, there is an obvious fallacy of equivocation right at the beginning of your argument, yet, you are oblivious to it. Do you notice it now? There are more fallacies in it, but one so important at the beginning, and you really don't see it? If you can't see such fallacies how can we trust your philosophical anything?
Motion? That one strikes as ridiculous. Motion, gravitation, expansion of the universe, I see no need for gods anywhere. That you can ask "then why is there gravity?" is but the same thing I can do "then why would there be a god?" So, I stop in nature, whether I know if I have reached its foundations or not does not matter, I still stop at nature. You go into fantasyland for no justifiable reason. Nature, at least we know it is there.Mar 1 2012: I'm pretty certain that Saint Thomas Aquinas laid down his argument regarding motion well before the concepts of kinetic and potential energy were well understood. So if today, all of the heavenly bodies are in motion, this is due to the potential energy that was released in the Big Bang. Now I cannot claim to know what happened at the precise moment of the Big Bang, especially since scientists themselves are just starting to peek into what might have happened in those first fractions of seconds following the Big Bang using the super-colliders. But I do not just whip up a deity out of thin air to answer that question - I simply say "We don't know".
The religious among us are famous for quoting the "Second Law of Thermodynamics" but therein lies the rub. If you ask one of them what is the First Law of Thermodynamics, they are usually dumbstruck. For that matter, they don't know how many Laws of Thermodynamics there are. And furthermore, the Second Law of Thermodynamics only applies to closed systems and I don't think anyone can say with any certainty that the Universe is a closed system. Now, I am not a physicist, but then, I'm not trying to claim that the Second Law of Thermodynamics proves the existence of God. I think that for those who do, it's incumbent on them to have an understanding of those Laws before bandying them about wrecklessly. OK - I caught you googling about the Laws of Thermodynamics, didn't I ? ;)
Mar 6 2012: Interesting cesarFeb 24 2012: [Rhona Pavis: Can you please elaborate a little bit on what you meant when you said "our advanced technologies have begun to indicate that some of our reality anchors may not be as reliable as we have traditionally declared them to be"...]
I'm referring to all the hub hub surrounding Quantum Mechanics and how many theoretical physicists are running off cliffs clutching to their anomalous research indications. Some are demanding that time doesn't exist and that reality is imposed by the perceiving agent. Crazy stuff. Now the "God Particle" is getting ready to disappoint its most fervent devotees. The double-slit experiment has morphed into wild speculation involving lettered researchers declaring that you can go back in time and unravel causal precedence. All the fault of our technology presenting us with indications that debunk our traditional interpretations of the basics of physical reality (reality anchors), and our thought leaders refusing to deal with the possibility that humanity might've gotten the initial interpretations of those staples wrong.
Take matter, for instance. Is it indivisible at any specific level of reduction? And if it is, then what causes it to emerge as existent in the first place? If you haven't got that answer, then you may as well declare God as the author. Truth is that matter is not indivisible at any level of reduction. In fact, matter isn't solid or physically concrete, and not in any sense of what those terms suggest. So, what is it? Its appearance of solidity is simple flawed human perception of the impact of Survival (the one existential imperative) requiring the primordial expression "Identity" to be established and defended by what has emerged as dynamic and initiative. The orbit, the linear trajectory, the change from this to that, and all occurring in sync with the same matrix of trajectories happening at all levels within each human being. We see ourselves as solid, so we see particles as solid too. Smaller but similar.
Feb 24 2012: From my limited educaton and understanding,i always thought there was a level of disapation and that one could not breach the shortest unit of time.They all want to find "The Door" to what? who knows,maybe zero point, we'll have to wait and see when they kick the hadron back up Hehe.
Jacob Miller
Feb 23 2012: I think it's safe to say no one can really answer that. There is more than one way to understand reality as a concept and this does not have to only be an intellectual endeavor (because everything has limits) Besides, all the new discoveries of science we are now" understanding" even less of what we thought was possible concerning the nature of this wild and wonderful universe and that is exactly how it should be if you ask me.
- +1
Feb 23 2012: Finally thank you for sharing this. Talking about what caused the first cause is out of question indeed!Feb 23 2012: 1st state. Something i can't imagine,all i see is a blackness
2nd state. The universe
3rd state. The Earth organic universe
4th state. The Human Conscious universe
5th state. Something i can't imagine so i'm stuck in the 4th state albeit the begining of the 4th state and looking back at the 1st state wondering if there was a blackness or does it come down the lines of the Plasmic universe? I lean towards God,i can't get the "For every action there is a equal and opposite reaction" out of my head,neither do i subscribe to the "Push pull Universe" which would conflict with the first state.Plasma theorists atleast acknowledge they have no idea what caused the second state but have a firm understanding of it,has there ever been a plama theorist speak at Ted? My generation and the younger generations all have a firm and incorruptable belief in the bang,like it's sponsored.Circles within circles.
Feb 23 2012: I am interested why you think the 1st state ever existed? What in your experience causes you to think this? Just wanting to know why you think there was blackness???
Feb 23 2012: That would stem from my first memories as a child asking questions of the universe,The bang was predominant then as it is now, on the other hand there was the bible,the two fit so nicely.one could connect plasmic theory to god aswel if one wanted, though far fetched.If there was a 1st state and i was on my way to witness the first cause i would never get there,i could never get past the time wall.Why i say blackness is that is all i could come up with,i can't use the word void, that would give it a sense of space and dimension.
My modern view of the universe is it's a mass of boiling bubbles,simple i know but i'm a firm believer in seed galaxies and that we need to really look at hubbles law and rethink it.Feb 23 2012: Scientists, Theorists everyone is inconclusive why? because the mind cannot comprehend the infinite and God created all.Feb 22 2012: I don't think by knowing how the universe (not just humans) started would prepare us better for the future or any field of study. Also I won't pretend to think I know the answer to this question - because no one knows, just theories.
If somehow a scroll/message feel from the sky that did have the complete science/details of the beginning, would we really understand it to the full extent using our interpretations of math and physics?
"You learn far more looking at death, than you do at birth"
Feb 23 2012: So true dear, beautifully said, its just theories, hypothesis etc
João Pinto
Feb 22 2012: Before answering you I just would like to say that this is a great talk you brought up and is a question that is been "bothering" me for a long time. Sometimes I asked if no one ever tought of that.
- +1
To me it's a very trouble question. I mean, let's face the Big Bang Theory. Where did it come the heat and the material that originated the explosion. We know that material and energy doesn't disappears, it transforms, renovates (Law of Conservation of Matter and the Law of Conservation of Energy).
If we face the The Circular cycle it stills doesn't answer our question. The Universe didn't started with matter and energy already created.
I can't even answer my self and I doubt that anyone can. It's very hard to even to talk about it and explain how we think about that.
I now leave another question;
Having such a hard question, do we need do know the answer to this problem like many others questions, instead fixing and working for other problems that are real and possible to solve in our own world?
Feb 22 2012: Thank you Joao Pinto for your comments in the Debate, I believe we all have a purpose in life, for some it would be fixing problems of the present, and for some understanding life's purpose. And yes this is an unending analogy but understanding the cause can help us learn our purpose of life. I wonder may be this life is just a "Trial" in which at least i do not want to end up on the wrong side.
João Pinto
Feb 23 2012: I agree with you about our purposes in life, but I figured it out that we give our own purpose to our lives, we give sense to them. We choose our ways and decide what we want to do and how we give our contribution to mankind.
- +1
And the "trial" in this world you mentioned, that´s quite a problem, I ask myself the same thing.
Feb 26 2012: so true joaoFeb 23 2012: "The Universe didn't started with matter and energy already created."
And you know this how? What in the experience of your life has led you to believe this? I just want to know how you understand this.
Feb 23 2012: I´m just saying that everything has a cause. If we face the first cause, the starting point, what was the cause of that?
Ex.: It was A that created the universe, and it was B that created A, and it was C that created B, etc, etc.
Every cause has is own cause. How is it possible that the first cause has been originated with no cause?
Feb 23 2012: Thank you Sr. Pinto! This is what I have been saying too. First cause makes no logical sense. The problem is not in the answer, it is that the question is incorrect.
Whenever you have a cause, you always have an antecedent cause.
So for instance, the big bang theory. If all matter was glumped together in some gigantic mass that blew apart and became the universe, how did matter get that way? Maybe matter blows apart and re-aggregates in some big bang cycle. Maybe matter just keeps flying into infinity until it runs into some more matter from some other big bang to aggregate once again. Even in the big bang theory, there would have to be an antecedent cause.
As I said in a previous post for those that believe that God is first cause. As if by magic, it must be God.
Both explanations (God and big bang) are very similar to a child's response when they do not completely understand yet. Both are part fantasy.Feb 23 2012: No it is written in every bible worldwide in the book of genesis.
Yes it is a faith position because it gives a singular cause where is all ancient peoples creation stories are built around multiple deities involved,including my own races stories.
One cause and only one.Feb 23 2012: @ Mr. Brown. So? Those books were written by people with the wrong question too. Just because something got printed doesn't make it true. Just look at tabloid rags.
Unless, of course, you assign belief to those books and then we are back to the fantasy part.
From a previous post of mine:
Jan 14 2012:
Creation stories have been around since the dawn of man. Because no one was around when the world was created, we can reasonably be sure no one really knows how it all started. Because no one really knows how it all started, humans developed creation stories. These creation stories became a way to explain to outsiders what the values, morals and beliefs were of the people that created the stories. When two groups of people came together in the past, the exchange of creation stories was part of the diplomatic exchange as different peoples got to know one another.Feb 26 2012: Dear linda we understand your "cause and effect theory" being a " Circular theory" meaning that the cause and effect occur on that which has always existed so there is no need for the "first cause theory". This would include time. But there is usually a time delay between cause and effect,. Circular time is such a large circle it only appears linear from our viewpoint. I hope this clarifies people "who believe that God is first cause. As if by magic, it must be God." as per you.
By the way how can you say/speculate or know the "creation of stories by people" with regards to religious books? Whats faith then? or even Blind faith for that instance?
Feb 26 2012: "Whats faith then?" I have been trying to figure that out for a long time. If you find out let me know. I am continually amazed at what people believe. Perhaps it helps them make sense of the world.
For instance, the idea of circular nature. That is a very ancient understanding of the world and frankly, for me, the only one that makes sense. But for some people, it makes sense that God created the earth in seven days and they believe it.
I guess faith gives us structure to chaos, the Illusion of control.
I would not say that I believe in circular nature. It is just a theory and one that makes sense. I am always looking for other theories and enjoy the exploration. Understand also that in the past, creation stories were just stories. Nobody actually believed in any of them. That is a recent phenomena.Feb 28 2012: @ linda "Who wrote the Bible" is a question that can be definitively answered by examining the biblical texts in light of the external evidences that supports its claims. 2 Timothy 3:16 states that "All scripture is inspired by God…." In 2 Peter 1:20-21, Peter reminds the reader to "know this first of all, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, … but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." The Bible itself tells us that it is God who is the author of His book.
God does not leave us with just claims of His divine handiwork in the Bible, but also supports it with compelling evidence. The design of the Bible itself is a miracle. Written over more than 1,500 years by vastly different writers, yet every book in the Bible is consistent in its message. These 66 books talk about history, prophecy, poetry, and theology. Despite their complexity, differences in writing styles and vast time periods, the books of the Bible agree miraculously well in theme, facts and cross-referencing. No human beings could have planned such an intricate combination of books over a 1,500-year time span. Bible manuscripts (remember, there were no printing presses until 1455) have survived despite weather, persecution and time.Feb 28 2012: Interesting Franciz. The book itself says that it comes from God. So I can write some stuff down and say that it was inspired holy work coming from God and you would call the exact SAME process blasphemy.
Oh I agree completely the book is incredibly old. And people were able to copy very accurately because they took their work seriously. A scribe was a pretty important guy to be and had a work ethic.
And the whole no human can plan a 66 chapter book thing. Actually there were entire counsels that planned the book. The council at Jerusalem. The council at Nicea. Couple more that I forgot. They went through it with a fine tooth comb. 'This we keep, this we get rid of.' In fact, I think there may be some records somewhere documenting the process. I don't follow that closely.
But Egyptian hieroglyphics were too. So were Mayan. And some of them claim to be from some god too. And they were pretty consistent. I am sorry but your compelling evidence is not so compelling.Feb 22 2012: The start of it all is the most baffling for me.
No one knows for sure either way, however I find the Prime Mover less satisfying for me than a natural universe that started with no help. Everything we have figured out doesn't need help of other entities. Lightening, the sun the moon, growing crops, sickness. Expect it is the same for this most difficult challenge to figure out.
After all it was about 13 billion years ago.
I use to wonder : 0 = -1 +1
Maybe there is a negative universe to offset this positive one with a net result of zero.
My sketchy understanding of quantum theory etc is that is contains some explanation for how something might come from nothing, multiple universes moving forward in different time lines. It really does baffle my super primate mind.
Once every thing got started we seem to do better with natural explanations. I wonder if we will figure it out in another 100,000 years. I wonder if other life forms with say a million year head start on us have a better idea.
If there is a prime mover it really seems to have no practical impact on our lives, except when different cultures and societies try to define it human terms and we end up with all the false claims of religions.
Feb 22 2012: BrilliantFeb 21 2012: Would be funny if the last cause would be the first. Or it has something to do with the one who experiences the world in cause and effect. (From a separated perspective, choosing between the judgement of cause or effect, the third way might be true, when being one with what is.)
Feb 21 2012: "Being one with what is"
Feb 22 2012: The Circular cycleFeb 22 2012: So it is unending
Comment deleted
Mar 18 2012: To state that the entire universe, its creation and development, is to be envisioned in a spiritual way (i.e., to eliminate the consequences of science, and to discredit logic) would be opening a field in which anything can be believed. According to your rationale, that things intangible exist beyond our realm of understanding- therefore leading to our own existence- you should be an Agnostic who is unsure, seeing as anything is possible. Just because science cannot pinpoint the exact way the world was created does not warrant you to assume that there was a higher being who did it. There is no reason to believe in something unless proven to a degree- divinity being unproven, one shouldn't even consider its part in our existence. Also, I hate to be "that guy who trusts empirical evidence as opposed to abstract mysticism", but the concept that there exists a direct correlation between our mind wanting to perform an act (such as the "slightest move of a finger") and our body performing that act is an integral part, if not the essential component, to biological neuropsychology. We do not make this connection through spirituality or love- rather, we possess neurotransmitters that which transport the chemical information throughout our bodies. I take it that you're a very privileged person because you believe that god is love. If you've ever taken a closer look at this planet that we live on it's pretty evident that the only 'love' that exists is man-made. The amount of hell that most of the people on this planet go through is a pretty strong indication that there is no god, let alone a loving, benevolent, omnipotent one. And if there is one, I'm sure that he'd pardon me for calling him a first class selfish, ego-maniacal jerk. I appreciate your zealousness towards spreading love across the world, but please don't lie about its origin.


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CHAMBERSBURG, PA – Dr. Jennifer Herdt, an author and professor of Christian ethics at Yale Divinity School, will deliver three presentations as part of this year's Orr Forum on Religion at Wilson College: Ethical Formation in a Post-Secular Age.
DATE: March 28, 2011
CONTACT: Dr. David True, Associate Professor of Religion
Phone: 717-264-4141, Ext. 3396
Email: email@example.com
CHAMBERSBURG, PA – Dr. Jennifer Herdt, an author and professor of Christian ethics at Yale Divinity School, will deliver three presentations as part of this year's Orr Forum on Religion at Wilson College: Ethical Formation in a Post-Secular Age.
Orr Scholar Herdt will describe how stories, both sacred and secular, work to shape a form of personal character that respects individual autonomy, yet is capable of contributing to the greater good, according to Dr. David True, Wilson associate professor of religion and organizer of the annual Orr Forum.
Orr Forum events, which are free and open to the public, will be held Monday and Tuesday, April 16 and 17. All presentations will be held in the Harry R. Brooks Complex for Science, Mathematics and Technology.
On April 16, Herdt will begin at 5 p.m. with an introduction entitled "Autonomy after Virtue." "I distinguish among four conceptions of autonomy and argue that the contemporary turn to tradition, given its self-conscious character, is best understood not as a repudiation of autonomy but as 'tradition-constituted autonomy,'" Herdt said.
At 10:30 a.m. Tuesday, she will present "Scripture (Secular and Sacred) in the Task of Ethical Formation." Here, Herdt will reflect on the role that secular literature — especially the novel — and sacred scripture play in ethical formation, and how these might be understood in relation to one another.
She will conclude the forum that evening at 7 with a presentation entitled "Forming a More Perfect Union: Democratic Virtues, Proximate Goods and Christian Formation." In it, "I ask whether and how the retrieval of virtue ethics and the turn to tradition-constituted autonomy might contribute to improving the quality of public life in American society today," Herdt said.
Reservations are requested. To RSVP or to learn more, visit www.wilson.edu/orrforum or contact Gretchen Babendreier at 717-264-4141, Ext. 3203, or email@example.com.
Herdt joined Yale Divinity School after 11 years on the faculty of theology at the University of Notre Dame. Her primary interests are in early-modern and modern moral thought, classical and contemporary virtue ethics, and contemporary Protestant social ethics and political theology.
She is the author of Religion and Faction in Hume's Moral Philosophy and Putting on Virtue: The Legacy of the Splendid Vices. Her articles have appeared in a variety of journals, including the Journal of Religious Ethics, theJournal of Religion, Modern Theology, Soundings, Studies in Christian Ethics, and the American Catholic Philosophical Quarterly.
Herdt has a bachelor's degree in religion and biology from Oberlin College and a master's degree and doctorate, both in religion, from Princeton University.
The Orr Forum at Wilson College is supported by an endowed fund established by Thomas J. Orr, a friend of the college, in honor of his parents William and Mary Orr. This respected academic event is dedicated to the rigorous study of religion. As such, it provides Wilson College and the entire community an annual forum in which to discuss fascinating, profound — and sometimes provocative — aspects of religion.
Founded in 1869, Wilson College is a liberal arts college dedicated to the education of women. Affiliated with the Presbyterian Church and located in Chambersburg, Pa. Wilson offers bachelor's degrees in 30 areas and master's degrees in education and the humanities. The college's 2010-11 enrollment in the College for Women and the Adult Degree Programs was 796 and included students from 21 states and 13 foreign countries. Visit www.wilson.edu to learn more.

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Lexington Medical Center backs Honor Flight
COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) — More than 80 military veterans from World War II and the Korean War are flying to Washington, D.C., for a tour of memorials erected in their honor.
Wednesday's scheduled trip is being sponsored by Lexington Medical Center.
Veterans and their escorts are slated to tour the World War II Memorial, the Korean War Memorial, the Vietnam Memorial, Lincoln Memorial and Iwo Jima Memorial. They also view Arlington National Cemetery and the Tomb of The Unknown Soldier.
Honor Flight South Carolina was founded in 2008 by Columbia restaurant owner Bill Dukes, who has organized more than a dozen such flights over the years.
The flights were designed to honor World War II veterans, but given their advancing age and physical issues, they are now open to Korean War veterans.
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THANKS to all behind this very worthy benefit for our retired military and their families...due to them and THE GOOD LORD, the public remained free and safe. God go with you...may your trip/experience bright much deserved pleasure to you and yours. Again, THANK YOU military veterans AND Lexington Medical Center....you do Columbia residents proud!122094796
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Barrow dog 'didn't deserve to die'
Last updated at 09:57, Wednesday, 16 January 2013
A DEVASTATED pet owner has described how her five-year-old daughter has cried herself to sleep every night since their dog was shot dead by a farmer.
Debra Proctor's collie, Maxi, escaped from her Barrow home in Whinlatter Drive on Saturday morning.
Miss Proctor spent the entire day searching for the missing two-year-old until her sister managed to contact the nearby Rakesmoor Farm.
The farmer confirmed to Miss Proctor the dog had been shot on the farm on Saturday afternoon because he had been "worrying sheep".
Miss Proctor, 44, said Maxi was a "gentle" dog who would not harm any animals, but was prone to rounding up sheep due to his breed.
She said her daughter, Jessica, had taken the news particularly hard.
"I had to tell my daughter, who has been crying for two days – she's been crying herself to sleep," said Miss Proctor.
"She has stuck photos of him together, along with a letter, and put it on the wall.
"We're devastated. They should've shot the gun in the air. He didn't deserve to die."
The Criminal Damage Act 1971 states an individual has a lawful excuse for damaging or destroying property, including an animal, belonging to someone else if the aim of destroying or damaging the property is to protect property belonging to himself or another which is in immediate need of protection and the means of protection adopted is reasonable in all the circumstances.
Carl Hudspith, National Farmers' Union spokesman, said: "Before shooting a dog, the farmer should consider whether there are any other options reasonably available to him.
"For example, does firing a warning shot scare the dog away? Can they get near enough to the dog to catch it without putting themselves in danger?
"Shooting the dog should always be the last resort."
Martyn Fletcher, a Cumbria RSPCA inspector, said: "Our advice would very much be for people to keep their dogs on a lead around farmland and that avoids any problems.
"We do prosecute where the rules are transgressed. The rules are complex, but farmers do have the right to shoot dogs which are worrying sheep because it can cause a lot of damage."
The farmer, who asked not to be named, said he had spent some time trying to persuade Maxi to leave the sheep and shooting the dog had been a last resort.
He also said he had seen blood in the sheep's pen.
A police spokeswoman said: "On Saturday 12 January at 12.40 pm, Cumbria Police were informed of an incident in which a dog, which was unsupervised , was attacking sheep on the farm and had to be destroyed.
"Farmers are able to lawfully destroy any animal which goes onto their land and causes harm or attacks animals on their property. The police will not be taking any action in this case.
"Police would like to remind dog owners to keep their animals on a lead when near livestock, even if they have never chased animals, as a precaution."
In response to the police statement, Miss Proctor wished to say: "I can't believe Maxi would've ever attacked the sheep - he was a sheep dog."
First published at 16:19, Tuesday, 15 January 2013
Published by http://www.nwemail.co.uk
Have your say
Everyone just needs to realise that Sheep know when farmers dogs are chasing them. they enjoy being rounded up. This does not stress them in any way. They also get pinned down and shaved with noisy clippers. But actually they find it quite relaxing. They also get hauled about in noisy camped trailers. But Sheep dont mind this. They end up in slaughter houses where they are humanely slaughtered using massive jolts of electricity. Its all very serene.Just, whatever you do.... Do not allow YOUR dog near them. They might keel over and die.
I feel sorry for the child whose pet has died, but agree with the farmer. Irresponsible dog owners, who allow dogs to escape and allow them to run free should be fined. Last year a bulldog ran after my child into his own house. Frightening my child who now has a fear of dogs. Once an animal has the taste for killing and blood its twice as likely to kill again, sheep, child, cat. If that was my income and life stock which is probably in season this time of year, I would have shot the dog also.
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sdkenned wrote:Concise description:
At the start of the game, rather than receiving random starting territories, players take turns drafting territories.
The boardgame RISK allowed gamers to choose whether starting territories would be randomly distributed or drafted deliberatly by players, in turn.
How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
An initial territory draft would add a huge strategic component to Conquer Club otherwise lacking.
I love the idea but it's not totally practical. How long would it take to do this on hive with 8 players? As long as the game!!


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Do You Need a Tetanus Shot?
Medical Author: Melissa Conrad Stöppler, MD
Medical Editor: William C. Shiel Jr., MD, FACP, FACR
Tetanus, sometimes called lockjaw, is a rare disease caused by bacteria known as Clostridium tetani. A toxin produced by the bacteria affects the function of the nerves and leads to severe muscle spasmsin the abdomen, neck, stomach, and extremities. Tetanus can either be localized to one part of the body or generalized, with muscle spasms throughout the body. The disease has been called lockjaw since the muscle spasms in the face and neck can lead to the inability to open the mouth, and this is one of the most common symptoms of tetanus. Tetanus is a serious illness that is fatal in up to 30% of cases.
The bacteria that cause tetanus can be found in soil, manure, or dust. They infect humans by entering the body through cuts or puncture wounds, particularly when the wound area is dirty. Animal bites, burns, and non-sterile injection of drugs can also lead to infection with Clostridium tetani. The first symptoms of tetanus can appear any time from three days to weeks after infection, but the average time until symptom onset is eight days. Tetanus is not contagious, so you cannot acquire the disease from someone who has it.


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New Construction: $20,000
New Construction Design Assistance: $5,000
Custom: varies, contact SMECO for details
New Construction: $0.25 - $0.40/first year kWh savings
Lighting: varies widely
Unitary/Matched Split AC/Heat Pump Systems: $100/ton
Dual Enthalpy Economizers: $200
HVAC Variable Frequency Drives: $600 - $5,250 (up to 75 hp), or $70/hp (100 - 200/hp)
Anti-Sweat Heat Controls: $40
Reach-In Door Closer: $40 - $50
ECM Evaporator Fan Motor: $50
Evaporator Fan Controller on Existing Shaded-Pole Motor: $75
Refrigerators: $50 - $250
Freezers: $100 - $500
Ice Machines: $50- $250
Smart Power Strips: $15/strip
Occupancy Sensor: $30/Sensor
Hotel Room HVAC Controls: $80/room
Vending Machine Controls: $30 - $75
Southern Maryland Electric Cooperative's (SMECO) Non-Residential Energy Efficiency Program provides technical assistance and a range of incentives to commercial, industrial, municipal and institutional customers who employ energy efficient measures in new and existing facilities. The program offers prescriptive rebates for specified energy efficiency measures, while custom incentives are offered for applications which are not covered by the prescriptive program. Eligible measures include HVAC systems, lighting, building controls, vending machine controls, variable frequency drives and commercial refrigeration. Under both the prescriptive and custom programs, incentives may cover up to 50% of a project's cost. Some rebates vary by size, efficiency and type of measure employed. Equipment must meet program guidelines listed on the web site above. Interested customers should check the web site to ensure eligibility and view program overview.
General: see program web site for equipment-specific requirements


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|Flathead / Philips Screwdriver
Required Tool
|Electric Screwdriver
Recommended Tool
|Rubber Head Hummer
Recommended Tool
|3/4" Staples Gun
Recommended Tool
|Hot Glue Gun
Recommended Tool
Locate the face frame.
Remove the door in order to prevent damages during assembly and installation.
Screw the pins in the pre-drilled holes on the face frame.
Screw the pins into the pre-drilled holes on each of the side panels.
Optional: Use carpenters glue to glue connections.
Place the side panel into the groove of the face frame. Make sure all the pins are aligned and inserted into the pre-drilled holes on the side panel.
Insert the back panel. Make sure the pins are aligned and inserted into the pre-drilled holes on the side panel.
Repeat Step 4 with the other side panel.
Slide in the back of the cabinet.
Insert and tighten the cam locks.
Attach the drawer guide holders to the back of the cabinet using the pre-drilled holes. Make sure both of them are aligned and level.
Connect the plastic corner brackets to add support to the cabinet structure.
Place the drawer guides into the holders and connect them to the back of the cabinet.
Connect the drawer guides to the front of the cabinet within the inner side of the face frame.
Connect the side of the drawer to the drawer face by securing the screws in the pre-drilled holes on the side of the drawer.
Repeat this step with the other side of the drawer.
Slide in the bottom panel of the drawer.
Connect the back panel of the drawer into both side panels using two screws for each side.
Set the drawer in its place. Insert the adjustable shelves using the supplied shelf holders.
Congratulations, your cabinet is ready!
Connect the face frame to the cabinet frame.
Make sure to insert and tighten the cam lock of the joint between the two frames (one on the top and one on the bottom).
Turn the frame sideways and inset the side panel into the groove.
Secure it with cam locks.
Identify the top and bottom spinning trays.
Note: The the top shelf has a bigger 90 degree cut on the bottom left corner (the right panel in the photo).
Set the bottom shelf in its place and secure it with the cam locks.
Insert the left back panel into its place and secure it with the cam locks.
Set the top shelf with the spinning tray in its place and secure it with screws.
This is another view of the cabinet with both spinning trays installed.
Set the right back panel and the other side panel in their place and secure them with the cam locks.
Secure the side panel to the face frame using the screws.
Connect the toe kick plates to each other using two screws in the pre-drilled holes.
Connect the toe kick plate to the cabinet using the pre-drilled holes.
Screw the pins into the pre-drilled holes on the side panels (four in each panel).
Place the side panel on the face frame into the groove. Make sure that the pins can go into the pre-drilled holes on the side panel.
After the pins are inserted, insert the cam lock into the pre-drilled holes and tighten it using a regular screwdriver.
Repeat this step with all the panels.
Slide the back panel into the groves of the side panels.
Place the adjustable shelves using the provided shelf holders.
Congratulations! Your cabinet is ready.


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SKU:484.226 | Red Apple LEATHER
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Our Mini Rectangular Luggage Tag has all the poise of our full sized rectangular luggage tag, just shrunk down to a smaller version. This handcrafted piece can be attached to your luggage with its strap and metal buckle, keeping it securely in place. The included ID card has space for all your personal info while the discreet privacy cover keeps it well hidden. This mini luggage tag is ideal for small carry-ons and other similarly sized items.
Casual yet distinctive, our Timeless collection is one of our favorites. This leather boasts a polished finish and a soft hand feel, making it a great choice for any leather connoisseur. And with the variety of colors it comes in, it's easy to find a shade that appeals to you or matches with your other accessories. As the name implies, our Timeless collection will hold up through years of use while aging gracefully every step of the way.
Please note: textures in this collection range from light grain to a lightly pebbled grain depending on which part of the hide it's from.
I bought this along with a travel wallet as a graduation gift.
Could not be more happy.
This is a beautifully crafted leather luggage tag - a bit to the small side. Perfect for hand luggage.
We needed 2 travel tags for our carry-on luggage. I went online and found this very nice leather company out of Texas. The product is top quality and very well-made. The transaction was easy and shipping arrived on-time for our trip to Granada!
Beautiful. It goes with everything.
I am very satisfied with this product. I wanted sturdy bright tags that could help quickly identify black luggage on an airport carousel. These tags are exactly what I was looking for. They are well made and very attractive. They arrived very quickly and were packaged individually in beautiful gift boxes.
Beautifully crafted, fine rich grained leather look. Love it. Wish it came in the square shape.
Excellent product quality and customer service.
I love that this tag is small and relatively discreet. Well made as well, and the monogram adds a nice touch.
Excellent quality. Very pleased and will order again.
Whether you are treating yourself or giving a gift to someone else, we want you to have an amazing and memorable experience. All items will be shipped using our signature gift packaging. Depending on the type and size, your item(s) will come wrapped in our signature microsuede sleeve, drawstring bag or soft velour bag (each with black tie accents), and be packaged inside a high-density bronze gift box. You will also have the opportunity to add a personalized gift note when you place your order.
All of this extra attention to detail is complimentary.


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LSI offers a wide range of silicon and software to address critical challenges in
datacenters, mobile networks and client computing.
LSI flash accelerators and storage connectivity solutions help maximize server speed
and uptime, providing the foundational technologies that make hyperscale datacenters
Enterprises of all sizes use LSI flash storage and software-defined networking solutions
to help meet the demands of today's line-of-business executives.
LSI solutions provide performance, data protection, reliability and scalability
– at an affordable price point.
LSI mobile network solutions help carriers meet bandwidth and coverage needs and
provide a quality user experience.
The broadest line of storage and acceleration solutions for datacenters, mobile
networks and client computing
The broadest portfolio of highly reliable server storage products in the industry
offers the connectivity, performance and protection to support critical applications
and user needs.
Demand for storage capacity continues to grow rapidly, requiring hard disk drive
(HDD) manufacturers to build higher-capacity hard drives. TrueStore® hard disk drive
components let HDD manufacturers tackle the data deluge.
From base stations to backhaul, mobile networks are growing rapidly to satisfy user
demands for ever-faster mobile broadband.
Traffic inside enterprises and datacenters continues to grow, driven by bandwidth-intensive
applications such as video, social media and big data.
Before calling support, please have your serial number(s) handy.
Host Bus Adapters, RAID Controllers (3ware/MegaRAID), SAS Switch and Syncro Shared Storage
North America: 800-633-4545
International: 00-800-5745-6442
Germany: + 49 (0) 8941 352 0123
Nytro & SandForce
Note: The Nytro flash accelerator card business has been acquired by Seagate. For questions regarding Nytro cards, please contact Seagate at 1-800-SEAGATE or visit http://www.seagate.com/products/solid-state-flash-storage/accelerator-cards/.
The SandForce flash controller business has been acquired by Seagate. For questions regarding SandForce flash controllers, please contact Seagate at 1-800-SEAGATE or visit http://www.seagate.com/products/solid-state-flash-storage/flash-controllers/.
NAS Gateways (ONStor)
North America: 866-726-3453
External RAID and Software Products
Note: The external storage systems business has been acquired by NetApp. For questions about your warranty or ongoing support, please contact NetApp at 866.625.3993 or 888.4.NetApp (888.463.8277).


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text: I don't know why but every week I'm more excited for Main Event then either Raw or Smackdown. I wish it wasn't just one main match, and then a throwaway but the way the matches are built are perfect. The video promos before the match, the match quality its all just really good. On this show guys like Kofi Kingston, Barrett, Ziggler, and The Miz have show what they can do in the ring with extended amount of time ranging from 15-20mins. I love this show and I hope it doesn't go away for a long time.


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majomull wrote:While I was walking from building to building at the hospital where I work, I heard an odd noise in one of the trees. It turned out to be a Red Tailed Hawk, hanging out . I feel bad for the many squirrels on campus, but what a beautiful bird.
Majomull! Glad to hear there's a fellow Bay Stater here on the forum! Wee Yanks are pretty rare around here and I thought i was the only one outside the Midwest!
I love red-tailed hawks. I grew up in a city next to Boston and never never never never saw one. Then when I moved about 15 miles west of the city I began to see them quite often. One day one of them landed in my back yard, caught a chipmunk, and started eating it then and there. Kinda gross but fascinating to watch. Even today, if I'm outside and am not walking, whenever I saw one circling in the sky I just stop and watch for several minutes. If I was ever reincarnated as something other than human, I think a red tailed hawk would be one of my top choices.


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All material on this site including the LIF logo, text and images is, unless otherwise stated, the copyright of the LIF Cymru.
Use may be made of copyright protected material provided that no changes are made to it and Cymru is acknowledged as the owner.
Usage for commercial gain or profit is prohibited unless formal written permission is obtained beforehand.
The permission to use copyright materials on this website does not extend to any material which is the copyright of any third parties and their authorisation to use such material must be obtained.


text:
A Patriotic Snack to try this Independence Day
I love the look of this red, white and "blue" Blackberry Salad, don't you? I found this easy Bon Appetit recipe through one of my new favorite sites, SousStyle, and thought it would be perfect for our upcoming Fourth of July festivities. I'm so looking forward to watching the local fireworks show with the family, enjoying some barbeque and trying these out!
- 1/4 cup extra-virgin olive oil
- 1 tablespoon chopped flat-leaf parsley
- 1 tablespoon chopped fresh chives
- 1 tablespoon chopped fresh tarragon
- 1 tablespoon fresh lemon juice
- Kosher salt and freshly ground black pepper
- 1 pint fresh blackberries, halved if large
Whisk oil, herbs, and lemon juice in a small bowl. Season to taste with salt and pepper. DO AHEAD: Vinaigrette can be made 1 day ahead. Cover and chill. Let return to room temperature before continuing.
Gently fold in blackberries.
Et voila! Ready to enjoy. What are some of your favorite things to do to celebrate the 4th?


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Measures 1-4
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Measures 17-23
For specific questions, please feel free to email the instructor.
If you would like to receive additional in-person or live online coaching on your etude from the tutorial instructor, please call 612.321.0100 or email Timothy De Prey. Be sure to state this is for MMEA Audition Etudes, and list the name of the requested instructor.


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Quarterly Report: 2012, January - March (Q3), Akhiok
Brice Eningowuk
DCRA Regional Office:
Gov't Type:
Second Class City
Agreement Date:
City of Akhiok
Assessment Status:
Assessment Date:
Exp Date:
Last Updated:
Community Sanitation Overview:
The city of Akhiok has a water treatment plant built in 1982 and has two 10,000 gallon water storage tanks that service 25 water connections. Water is supplied from a 500,000 gallon reservoir and dam. Pressure pumps are needed to supply the water storage tanks as the tanks are near the same level as the water reservoir and water treatment plant. The distribution system has antiquated vales that are no longer serviceable. Within the water treatment plant one of the two media filters has collapsed leaving only one filter usable within the plant. A through backwash of the filter can drain the distribution system and put the psi level down to five psi throughout the system. The city of Akhiok has a water treatment plant built in 1982 and has two 10,000 gallon water storage tanks. Water is supplied from a 500,000 gallon reservoir. Pressure pumps are needed to supply the water storage tanks as the tanks are near the same level as the water reservoir and water treatment plant. The distribution system has antiquated vales that are no longer serviceable. Within the water treatment plant one of the two media filters has collapsed leaving only one filter usable within the plant. A through backwash of the filter can drain the distribution system and put the psi level down to five psi throughout the system.
RUBA Status & Activities This Qtr:
RUBA staff maintained contact with community to receive RUBA documents.
RUBA Activities for the Coming Qtr:
The City of Akhiok is currently meeting allof the essential capacity indicators. RUBA staff is available to provide assistance to help meet any sustainable capacity indicators that are currently not being met.
Essential Indicators:
26 of 26
Sustainable Indicators:
16 of 27
Total Score:
42 of 53
Essential Indicators
All revenues and expenses for the utility are listed in the utility budget.
The utility has adopted a balanced realistic budget.
Monthly financial reports are prepared and submitted to the policy making board.
The utility is current in paying all water/wastewater electric bills.
The utility has on hand a year's adequate fuel supply or it has a financial plan to purchase an adequate supply.
The utility is receiving revenues (user fees or other sources) sufficient to cover operating expenses.
Sustainable Indicators
The utility is receiving revenues (user fees or other sources sufficient to cover operating expenses and Repair & Replacement (R) costs.
YTD revenues are at a level equal to or above those budgeted.
YTD expenditures are at a level equal to or below those budgeted.
A monthly manager's report is prepared.
Budget amendments are completed and adopted as necessary.
Finances Comments
The City of Akhiok has adopted a realistic balanced FY12 budget. All revenue and expenses for the water/wastewater utility are listed within the budget. The city owns the electric generator that supplies electricity to the community and the water treatment plant. The water and wastewater revenues are not sufficient to cover operating expenses; therefore the city subsidizes its water and watsewater utility with a combination of the electric utility revenues and office space rental from the local Native Corporation. The water operator reports verbally to the council.
Accounting Systems
Essential Indicators
The utility has adopted a collection policy and actively follows it.
The utility bills customers on a regular basis.
An accounts receivable system is in place which tracks customers and reports past due accounts and amounts.
An accounts payable system is in place.
The payroll system correctly calculates payroll and keeps records.
A cash receipt system is in place that records incoming money and how it was spent.
The utility has a cash disbursement system that records how money was spent.
Sustainable Indicators
A chart of accounts is used that identifies categories in a reasonable, usable manner.
Monthly bank reconciliations have been completed for all utility accounts.
The utility has a purchasing system that requires approval prior to purchase, and the approval process compares proposed purchases to budgeted amounts.
Accounting Systems Comments
The city council has an adopted a water/wastewater ordinance that includes sections on billing and collections. The community has been notified as to why the council must enforce collections. The community has been supportive of the policy. RUBA staff assisted the city in creating a manual system that is easy to use and helps get the billing out by the fifth of each month. Customers are charged $30 per month for combined water, wastewater and garbage service. Each monthly invoice shows the date of billing, a description of services, amount due, cost of service, amount paid and total balance due. A manual system is in place for tracking and reporting accounts receivable, accounts payable and payroll. Due to the small size of the community, this manual system for reporting is effective and sufficient. The current system for cash receipts is for staff to write a receipt of payment to the customer, enter the payment on the customer's account ledger and then the mayor or vice mayor makes a deposit to the bank. The city uses a checkbook register to record who checks are written to with payments entered on another ledger that tracks which class or account the funds are expended from. Monthly bank reconciliations are completed manually. Purchases for the utility are discussed by the mayor and vice mayor to confirm if the purchase is necessary and there are funds available in the budget. Major purchases are discussed by the entire council prior to ordering.
Tax Problems
Essential Indicators
The utility has a system to accurately calculate, track, and report payroll tax liabilities.
The utility is current on filing tax reports.
The utility is current on making tax deposits.
If there are any past due tax liabilities or recorded tax liens, a lien release has been issued or a repayment agreement has been signed and repayments are current.
Tax Problems Comments
The IRS report from April 10, 2012 shows the city is compliant with federal tax filing and has no record of a lien. The Department of Labor and Workforce Development, Employment Security Divisions report from March 13, 2012 states that the city is in compliance with state tax filing, deposits and is not on the January - February 2012 lien watch.
Personnel System
Essential Indicators
The utility has a posted workers compensation insurance policy in effect.
Sustainable Indicators
The utility has adopted and uses a Personnel Policy, which has been reviewed by an attorney, AML or Commerce for topics and language.
The utility has adequate written job descriptions for all positions.
The utility has adopted and follows a written personnel evaluation process that ties the job description to the evaluation.
The utility has an adequate written hiring process.
The utility has personnel folders on every employee that contain at least: I-9, Job Application and Letter of Acceptance.
The utility has a probationary period for new hires that includes orientation, job training/oversight, and evaluations.
The utility provides training opportunities to staff as needed and available.
Personnel System Comments
The City of Akhiok currently has a workers compensation insurance policy through Alaska Municipal League/Joint Insurance Association valid until July 1, 2012. The city does not have a personnel policy or current job descriptions for employees; however, the utility has requested RUBA assistance in creating a policy and job descriptions. The utility does not have a written hiring process. Job notices are posted with the job title and description for ten days. Interested applicants apply at the city office. The utility's personnel folders are orderly and contain the employees W-2, I-9 and other pertinent information. The files do not include a copy of the job application and description. Training opportunities to staff are provided as funds allow or opportunities by other sponsors become available.
Organizational Management
Essential Indicators
The entity that owns the utility is known; the entity that will operate the utility is set.
The policy making body is active in policy making of the utility.
The policy making body enforces utility policy.
The utility has an adequately trained manager.
The utility has an adequately trained bookkeeper.
The utility has an adequately trained operator or operators.
The utility has adopted the necessary ordinances (or rules and regulations) necessary to give it the authority to operate.
Sustainable Indicators
The utility has adopted an organizational chart that reflects the current structure.
The policy making body meets as required.
The utility complies with the open meeting act for all meetings.
Organizational Management Comments
The council strives to hold monthly meeting when a quorum is available. Copies of recent meeting minutes were provided. Although enforcing actions of disconnections has historically been difficult, the community currently understands the importance of the policy and is supporting the city on the policy. A city employee attended a Personnel Management Training in December 2010. The vice-mayor/utility operator attended the Elected Officials Management for Rural Utilities training class in April 2010 as well as an Organizational Management for Rural Utilities training in 2007. The Mayor attended a Financial Management for Rural Utilities training in 2006 and a QuickBooks training in 2008. All trainings were provided by the RUBA program. The current utility operator is trained and holds a Provisional Level 1 certificates in both water treatment and water distribution. The city recently adopted a water/wastewater utility ordinance that is based on the Regulatory Commission of Alaska (RCA)model utility ordinance.
Operation of Utility
Essential Indicators
The utility operator(s) are actively working towards necessary certification.
The utility has a preventative maintenance plan developed for the existing sanitation facilities.
Sustainable Indicators
The manager receives a monthly O&M report from the utility operator and routinely "spot checks" the facilities to see that the maintenance items are being completed.
The utility has a safety manual and holds safety meetings.
Utility facilities have not suffered any major problems/outages due to management issues that are unresolved.
The utility is operating at the level of service that was proposed.
The operator provides status reports to the manager on a routine basis.
The utility has completed and distributed its "Consumer Confidence Report".
The utility is not on the "Significant Non-Complier" (SNC) list.
The utility maintains an inventory control list.
The utility maintains a critical spare parts list.
Operation of Utility Comments
The preventative maintenance plan for the existing system is on file. The utility operator is trained and holds Provisional Level 1 certificates in both water treatment and water distribution, which expire on 12/31/2013 The utility operator reports to the council when there is a problem or he can foresee one. The utility operator and council try to keep needed critical spare parts on hand. There is a written inventory and spare parts list for the plant. The water system is on the January 2012 SNC list for Surface Water Treatment Rule and Stage 1: Disinfectants and Disinfection By Products Rule violations. submit completed operator reports to return to compliance. System struggles to monitor and report entry point chlorine residual levels and turbidity data requirements. System needs to monitor for quarterly Synthetic Organic Chemicals (SOC) in 2013 or complete SOC Waiver Application for 20112013 compliance period. Also, consistently submit Monthly operator reports with adequate turbidity and chlorine data.
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