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- Yen Yang
- Cebu City
- Philippines
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The Existence of God
Is there really a God? Or did everything just poof?
Jun 8 2013: Poof is an understatement. but yes there is no god . I would argue that god is a human construction to answer the question we couldn't and still can answer such as why everything is here.Jun 3 2013: God's existence simply cannot be proven nor dis-proven, everyone calming to have a prove of the existence or non existence of God is a liar. In case God really existed, every single piece of matter in the universe would be part of it, so we won't have a way to separate God from the rest of the universe, which would leave us unable to sample, measure or count God's essence, and because of that, unable to design an experiment to prove its existence. On the other hand if God wouldn't exist any attempt to find evidence in favor or against its existence would yield nothing. As you may see, in either case, trying to find evidence of the existence of God is a waste of time, which leads us to the only reasonable conclusion: God's existence is a matter of faith and not science.
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Jun 3 2013: Well... I only know 1 definition: Omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent... In my humble opinion, whatever that does not fit that definition is just a superior being, but never can be classified as God.
I understand you point however you may agree that when people asks about the existence of God and mention the word "proof" they really mean "scientific proof"... a thing that is impossible by definition (the definition of science I mean)... so again, the existence of God is a matter of faith and not science.Jun 4 2013: Interesting idea, however "infinity" is just a "mathematical crutch" to represent an unreachable number, so infinity=unreachable=undefinable, so: 1/0=unreachable & undefinable. Would that mean God is unreachable and undefinable?... something to think about... but if it is, then I'm right and human kind will never solve the mystery (by scientific means).Jun 4 2013: I agree with most of what you say, however I do not discard the possibility of God revealing itself to an individual or a group of individuals. That can be a perfectly valid and indisputable proof, I will not discuss that, my point is that such a thing would be extremely difficult if not impossible to repeat in laboratory conditions.
You can find mathematical evidence to prove God is possible, I won't discuss that either, my point is not that, my point is: You won't be able to translate that into a series of experiments repeatable for anyone, simply because God is omnipresent, and even if you can, remember Einstein: "A thousand experiments can prove me right, but only one can prove me wrong"... so again, human kind will never be able to know for sure (100% accuracy) whether if God exists or not. This is my point and no other.Jun 4 2013: You are welcome. Just a final remark, just like you said, the individual proof is the most important, the problem arises when certain individuals challenge science to prove or dis-prove God's existence, which from my point of view is absurd.
Nice to talk to you Lamar, hope to talk to you again soon.
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Tom Budgen
Jun 10 2013: In short - yes, there is!
- +3
My "proof"? I can't produce God out of a bottle, nor can anyone disprove His existence. What I can do is put the question of God's existence into a hypothesis: If God really did exist, what observable and verifiable data is there to either prove or disprove His existence?
I submit you only have to talk to born-again followers of Christ and listen to their own testimonies to see the evidence! A testimony is a person's account of how they came to faith in Christ, their experience of the God of the Bible and the life-changing experiences that accompany such a regeneration. Millions and millions (including myself) have testified to having been guilty before Him, believing on the Lord Jesus for forgiveness and experienced such a peace of conscience that it really does transcend any other experience you've had. True, it is subjective. But it is backed up by an objective reality: the resurrection of Jesus Christ, a real-life historical fact.
All the millions of testimonies have a remarkable consistency: feelings of guilt, inadequate sense of purpose in the world, misery then a transformation of soul that gives the person assurance of God's love, peace of conscience, a joy, and perseverance with a confidence this life is but the prelude to something bigger: eternity. "If any man be in Christ he is a new creature" 2 Corinthians 5:17.
Jun 10 2013: I respect your belief as your belief Tom, and it is amazing to me that a belief in a god usually includes guilt, inadequate sense of purpose, and misery, as you insightfully point out.
I do not believe that a god would put us here on this beautiful earth for the purpose of feeling guilty, inadequate, miserable and dependant on a "transformation" to experience peace and joy. If we are constantly struggling to experience a transformation, it uses a lot of time and energy we could use for genuinely living the life experience. I believe that is why we are here....to experience life....here and now.
Tom Budgen
Jun 10 2013: Thanks Colleen for your comments! If I may, what does "experience life mean"? Eat and drink for tomorrow we die? How does a "living here in the now" moment address topics such as death and suffering in the world? How does a philosophy help a person who is on the verge of death and scared of it?
- +3
A belief in God (in and of itself) does not automatically generate feelings of guilt, etc. That only comes when you understand who God is - His nature, character and person as a whole. "God" is a spirit, infinite, eternal and unchangeable in his being, wisdom, power, holiness, justice, goodness and truth. He has three "persons" - Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
God's central quality? Holiness. The Bible is God's revelation to mankind. Written by men, yes. But inspired by the Spirit to think the words God wanted the men to write. The Bible is unique. Written across a 1500 year span, across 3 different continents, in different languages, different places and times and yet it achieves a remarkable consistency. Being unique of course does not prove it's true but it is something to certainly factor in.
The Bible teaches mankind was created in an "unfallen" state - perfect in degree, but susceptible to change, but man rebelled against God in spite of God's warning that disobedience produces "death" - that is to say, spiritual death and natural death. We all come from our first parents, Adam and Eve, and thus all mankind are sinners. Sin is spiritual rebellion. And we rebel against God' Moral Law - the 10 commandments. Ever stolen something? Yep. Ever told a lie? Yep. Ever been greedy? Yep. When a person comes to acknowledge faith in Christ, your eyes are opened up to true guilt. That you've broken his commandments and need forgiving.
The "problem" with debates like this, is we all have our own presuppositions i.e. our starting point in our thinking. What is that built on? Our own reasoning/feeligns or the Bible?
Jun 10 2013: Hi Tom,
Experiencing life, to me, means being fully present and aware with each life experience.
For me, the topic of death was experienced with my own near death from an accident. I also volunteered in a terminal care facility for a couple years, sitting with many people who were dying, as well as helping with hospice care for two friends and two relatives.
For me, the "suffering in the world" topic has been addressed by volunteering in a shelter, family center, co-facilitating "cognitive self change" sessions with incarcerated offenders, guest lecturing at the univ. on the topic of "violence and abuse in relationshipe".....etc. etc. etc., for many years.
I do not live simply by "philosophy" Tom, I live by practicing and applying information:>)
I've heard the same things you are preaching many times Tom, starting with 12 years of catholic school and bible study. I also studied, researched and practiced a variety of religious and philosophical beliefs throughout my 60+ years of life.
The "problem" with these discussions, in my humble perception, is that some folks need to try to convince others that their belief is "right".
As I said in my first comment to you...
"I respect your belief as your belief Tom".Jun 10 2013: Of course - the things you have done are exemplary! What I'm getting at is the reason why there is death and suffering in the world i.e. it's origins. A Biblical worldview gives those answers. Because of sin, this world is cursed. Our own reasoning (as a framework) does not yield all the answers.
With respect, I would say practicing and applying information is a type of philosophy in the sense you genuinely hold to it, that it's weighty and substantial, and attains a certain level of cogency, seriousness and importance in your life.
Well... A debate is all about expressing one another's beliefs with the aim of persuading another to see their side of the argument. I don't make a point of forcing what the Bible has to say on anybody but I like to use an opportunity to share what has happened in my life and the lives of others I know :)
Jun 10 2013: Thank you Tom,
What I am getting at, is that the life/death cycle and all it entails is the human life experience.
You are welcome to believe in the "biblical worldview", "sin" and that "this world is cursed" if you wish. Those are not my perceptions or beliefs regarding the life experience.
I respect YOUR beliefs as YOUR beliefs, as I said in my first comment to you:>)
No Tom, I am not expressing my beliefs with the aim of persuading you of anything. I addressed your questions. Why do you need to try to convince me that you are right?Jun 10 2013: As a Christian, I am exhorted to share something of the gospel. And if that means gently challenging a person's perception of things, then so be it. It's about opening up the things of the Bible and to share what it has to say on matters. It's not what I think. It's what God has to say. I'm simply stating what the Bible says.
... And is it so bad that I do want to persuade you? ;-)
Thanks for your comments all the way through, by the way. It's good to talk!
Jun 10 2013: Tom,
If you are "exhorted to share something of the gospel", so be it. I respect YOUR beliefs as YOUR beliefs.
So, now you "gently challenged my perception of things". How long are you going to keep doing that? I don't think this discussion thread is meant to be a bible study.
Some folks keep saying ...."it's not what I think. It's what God has to say".
If a god has something to say to us, I sure wish he/she/it would pop in here and say it!!!:>)Jun 12 2013: What you have is no compelling evidence to believe in a born again Christian dogma any more than any similar invisible creator type god or goddess.
Believing and practicing any religion, god or goddess or related supernatural spiritual concepts can change your life profoundly. Believing in a personal god watching you, maybe even talking to this concept, building it through repetition as a cognitive construct, attributing events to this construct without evidence, spiritual feelings, connection, love, social reinforcement, repeated reading of scriptures, imprint, reinforce etc you can get from any similar approach. Its probably pschology and biology etc. It doesn't even have to be religion that changes someones life. It might be a car accident or reading something or finding a cause leading to focus and profound change.
Regarding religious experience, this seems to be universal. Hindus experience it. Jehovahs witnesses. Muslims. Buddhists. Followers of Bacchus, Maduk, El, Isis etc I guess did in the past. No reason to assume its not just our flawed cognition and natural psychology. I note if these experiences are not socially accepted or within some norms or themes we consider people delusional or mentally ill.
People still have similar beliefs in evil spirits, ancestor ghosts, nature spirits, black magic etc
So basically your argument is this type of belief changes lives, people have subjective religious type experience that could all be natural, that people believe the claims in religious texts without evidence.
Its all pretty circular, subjective, speculative and comes back to no actual evidence for any particular being worthy of the name god or goddess, but not being able to disprove their existence.
We can't disprove Zeus is not living in a distant galaxy or in another dimension.
Not being able to disprove something must be about the worst reason to believe in something.
Jun 12 2013: ... and to follow on...
I don't believe in God because I can't disprove his existence. I believe in a God because I think it is perfectly rational to. As a Christian, I believe the Bible reveals who this God is, what he's about, what He has to say about this world. The Bible is God speaking.
A belief in something in and of itself doesn't change anything. The object of my belief is Jesus Christ. And it is that belief in who He is and what He has done for me in my life that causes me to believe. I can tell you from experience, my encounter with Christ is not natural - as a perfectly sane, rational being, I can ascribe it as a supernatural experience. A work of the Spirit working faith in me, enlightening my eyes and bringing me into a relationship with Christ. And it is through my own what the Bible calls "regeneration" I see God working. I therefore have no doubt in his existence.
My own experience is supported by an objective reality: the resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is that fact which gives ultimate credence for my faith in Christ. I have personally taken the time to investigate, read books about His resurrection and I believe it to be true.
Jun 12 2013: We may have different definitions or understandings of what is rational.
Belief in invisible agency seems very natural.
The flimsy evidence and subjective interpretations you rely on seems somewhat irrational.
Its the same sort of thinking that leads a muslim to believe in Allah.
OR a mormon to believe in the mormon gods.
OR a buddhist to believe in buddhist dogma etc
If you were born in a muslim country wouldn't you be saying the same sort of thing about Allah.
I suggest the resurrection is not a proven fact just because it is in the bible and ancient people believed it, just as people have believed in other religions and gurus and scriptures and miracles. IF Buddhist scriptures said Buddha did some miracles would you believe that. OR the miracles in the Koran or book of mormon etc.
Also even if unexplained things actually happened (and again there is no good reason to think they did any more than any other religion) such as a couple of ressurections, it does not automatically follow that everything written in the bible is true, or that Jesus is a god, or that there is a god. You just have a mystery. There is just as much evidence that Jesus was a sophisticated robot sent by aliens then he was a god.
I suggest Vijay feels just as strongly as you do about his god interpretation and cognative experiences. I'm not sure how Christians can claim the Resurrection is an objective reality and that if it happened it is proves your interpretation of the bible with a straight face, when it is clearly an act of faith to believe it happened, and that the life of jesus was recorded accurately and the the teaching afterwards were all inspired by god, and that the bible is actually as the creator of the universe intended, and that this book is upposed to convince us and that the god in the bible makes sense and is worthy of worship etc.Jun 17 2013: Dear Natasha, I can't remember where I read it, but if you Google "Why St Thomas Aquinas stopped writing" you'll find that he had a vision of heaven some months before he died and stopped writing, telling his secretary, "All that I have written seems to me like so much straw compared to what I have seen and what has been revealed to me." So, after a lifetime of writing ABOUT God, the great theologian is silenced by one EXPERIENCE OF God. In Life & Holiness, Thomas Merton writes, ...the kingdom of heaven is open to those who beg, by prayer, to enter it." But he also notes, "Yet the question arises: is modern man, confused and exhausted by a multitude of words, opinions, doctrines and slogans, psychologically capable of the clarity and confidence necessary for valid prayers? Is he not so frustrated and deafened by conflicting propagandas that he has lost his capacity of deep simple trust?" And in these few sentences - with the sweet simplicity of GOD - lies the answer to Cheyennes question: 1.The Kingdom of God IS open 2. By suppliant prayer 3. To those who have a deep and simple trust.Jun 15 2013: To live a worthwhile and moral life does not require that one believe in a particular conception of God or of any for that matter. The Buddha (who was a man not a God) said that faith or belief in his teachings was not necessary. He told his students to test out Dharma principals in their own life to see if they worked. If yes, then continue the experiment. If not, then not. Goethe's' lovely statement about proactive commitment, in which he says in essence to begin a course of creative action with something like faith, posits that some universal law will create a supportive response from unforeseen sources. This can seem like divine aid but what does the ultimate source matter? The proverbial "attitude of gratitude" tends to make any circumstance more bearable and can help us sustain our efforts so that some level of success is much more likely. Many people see little conflict between spirituality and science. It is when someone insists that a particular religion has all the truth and has the only road map to heaven or salvation or enlightenment that trouble arises. Usually they want you to pay in one way or another for their version of the map. Or they want to convert you in order to reassure their own doubts. In recent years it seems some hope to get enough people on the bandwagon to jump start some sort of final Apocalypse.
Jun 15 2013: I agree Chad, that how we live our life is the important piece.
I was taught by a devout Catholic mother, and later in life, I realized that many of the beliefs I embraced were more connected with Buddhism than with any other traditional belief. This was a little confusing for awhile.....how could I have been taught by a devout Catholic and embrace Buddhist beliefs?
One day, I discovered something the Dalai Lama said.....If we are a good christian, we are a good buddhist.
I interpret this to mean if we are a good person, and live life with integrity, it does not matter which religion or philosophical belief we align with. This simply feels "right" to me:>)Jun 15 2013: Very nice and powerful argument, fully agree. Cheers!Jun 12 2013: ...continuing on...
When people say "science disproves God" I never know what they mean by that. How do you define "science"? For me there's two types. One is operational science i.e. the things that are observable, repeatable, capable of sensory assessment - good observation makes good science and all that; then "origin science" where scientists take a uniform assumption that because things develop in a certain way in a certain time then it must have always been like that. Evolution and Creationism are explanatory models at best, of course. We can't observe creation nor can we observe macro-evolution happening, either. For the Christian, he has in a way a "time machine" - because he believes God created everything which has been recorded in Scripture. That is MY starting point in thinking and it allows me to interpret facts. Facts are not neutral - it's how you interpret them.
Your starting point is the Bible is a myth. And being a myth it cannot be tested legitimately by operational science (which of course a myth can't because its fiction) therefore a God must be a myth so you cannot accept a Creationist argument. Your starting point is altogether different from mine. But is the Bible a myth? The Bible has endured for centuries, is unique, contains historical facts, etc. It's stood the test of time. It paints mankind in a state of sin - (who would write that about their own kind?) and points to salvation outside of man's reach. Hardly the work of men really.
God is not a magic being. He is a spirit. And He revealed himself to mankind in the real life person of Jesus Christ. His existence is backed up by historical sources, not just the Bible.
Jun 12 2013: Thanks for the help, i was getting lonely.
Jun 12 2013: So now Jonathan, I have a question for you if it's not too invasive?
Why did you feel lonely, and why do you think you needed help?
Jun 12 2013: Yesterday, I embarked on this debate, although it was enlightening, it was very taxing on my mind trying to retort to the more hard core opposition debaters. I think that I was the only person voicing my view on God's existence and I was releaved to see someone else on my side of the debate. Although I had the utmost faith that God gave me the answers He did, but i am only human and as such, loved the company.Jun 13 2013: Hope you don't feel like we are ganging up.
Wouldn't be much of a discussion or debate if we all thought the same thing.
There are many other theists, deists and pantheists around, but most have seen this question many times.
This is the sort of site where you can scroll through a conversation and see all sorts of ideas and arguments that might take ages to come across elsewhere. Great to test and refine your own or dump them and steal others if they make more sense.
Not sure how you can tell the difference between thinking of answers yourself and god helping you. I have heard some arguments for god that took me a while to unpack. Others times totally ridiculous arguments that even theists might cringe. I guess god is busy sometimes.
Its a bit like prayer. If what you prayed for happens then god did it. If it doesn't happen it was gods will. Cognitive bias. Agency assumption. I wonder if this belief of god being with you uses the same cognitive processes as children's imaginary friends. I note people with other beliefs sense or assume other invisible agents with them or around them, ancestor spirits, demons, nature spirits etc.
Jun 13 2013: Ganging up on is such a harsh way to put it, but it works. Although, i welcome it. I am not one to back down too easily when it comes to my own knowledge. On concrete ideas that i have been wrong on, i am man enough to admit when i am wrong. On matters of faith, such as this, I can only "argue" what i know to be true in my heart. God is not a child who does malicious things to his creation. He is a Good Father. What is said about Him in the bible IS something I model my life around because I am learning how to be a good father such as He Is.Jun 13 2013: And I hope you and others and myself will always have the option to choose to believe and follow your chosen religion.
Can I assume you don't believe in hell as per some Christian doctrines. Or that God flooded the planet in a global genocide etc. Otherwise I'm not sure how Jealous god = good father.
Having said that there are some positive things in the New Testament IMO.
Jun 13 2013: I do believe in hell. I do believe that God flooded the planet. He flooded the planet to get rid of the wicked humans, He saved Noah, He had His reasons. He promised not to do that again. I don't see the jealousy in that, just "good housekeeping". Ha Ha Ha. Genocide does not take into account the morals of the culture trying to be wiped out, just that they are that group of people, i.e. jews, christians, ethiopians, cambodians, etc...Jun 14 2013: Hi Jonathan.
You can't say things like that to Obey; you'll set him off :) . I'm with you. There is ample evidence of the flood in the worldwide fossil bearing layers; but some folks just don't see it.
We all die, & those in the flood just died a bit earlier. I have no problem with God deciding that to let folks live & spread their disease causes more grief than to retrieve his gift of life from them.
If you are a Christian, you will get heavy weather, but remember "He who is in you ..........etc"
:-)Jun 14 2013: Wow.
I rarely get emotional on TED, but something about this comment made me a little upset.
You believe your god committed mass murder of men, pregnant women and children and you called it house keeping with a laugh.
I don't believe there is sufficient evidence for it happening,but can imagine the fear and horror of an evil act such as this.
Surely your moral compass indicates drowning children is evil?
What wickedness could the worst of the humans have committed that is worse than drowning nearly every man, woman and child?
What wickedness did the babies commit? Or the animals. Surely you don't support drowning animals to punish wrong doers?
Are you suggesting there are sometimes valid reasons for genocide? You know that includes the children.
What mental and moral gymnastics are required to assert a supernatural being that takes sides with one tribe, destroys cities, sends plagues, accepts human sacrifices, orders witches and homosexuals and adulterers and unruly children and sabbath breakers to be killed, orders millions to be killed, commits near global genocide is remotely moral, let alone all loving.
How is Genocide all loving?
How is requiring obedience and worship all loving?
Is sending people to eternal torture all loving because they were born in the wrong place or time or used their brains.
Just by definition a jealous god can not be all loving.
Surely your moral compass indicates torturing people is evil?
The god described in the bible is often one of the worst monsters imagined. I challenge you to name one other human, god or goddesses that does something worse than tormenting some of its creations for eternity. That is worse than Hitler.
I'm not anti all aspects of religion but this sort of thinking is what I object to. If god does it or says it is okay or obeying god is good no matter what the orders is okay. Basically assuming god is outside any moral boundaries.
If you changed Yahweh to Zeus I guess you would agree with me.
Jun 14 2013: God etch-a-sketched existence, save for Noah, his family, and the animals on the ark. He looked and could not find any other human being following His rules. And before Abraham, the rules were to be moral and just to everyone. The world of man had descended into chaos and moral corruption. They weren't tortured or using their brains. They were very "humanistic." Yes, torture is wrong. God is not the worse monster in the bible. There are many other examples of that. The Pharaoh of Egypt cast all the first born males of the Hebrews in the Nile river to be devoured by the animals there, that i call a monster. Sacrificing children to a man made god is monstrous, which God specifically talked against this practice. He is a jealous God, he does not want man to worship any other images because man perverts this practice to satisfy his own will. I ask you, what is so wrong with living your life the way Jesus commanded? Man created the Pantheon of gods, how do I know this, because all man made gods eventually became perverted, not the God of the bible. Not everyone who died in the flood went to hell.Jun 15 2013: I have no issue with the golden rule, helping the poor etc.
I have issues with the apocalyptic mindset
I have problems with how you live you life being less important than what you believe.
With the sexism.
I have problems that you believe in a god that endorsed slavery, ordered killing homosexuals etc
With the tribalism it reinforces sometimes
I have a problem with homophobia and trying to cure it
I have problems with how believing you know gods will exacerbates extreme behaviours and forcing your beliefs on other people without relying on evidence.
I have problems with the assumption that the morality outlined in the bible, is absolute. That you have the answers.
I have issues with Good news clubs indoctrinating children that they must obey an iron age god and that we are all sinners
I have a problem with the concept of original sin. It is immoral to punish others for the crimes of their ancestors.
I have an issue that when god does something evil or orders something evil you just accept it.
With the divine command mentality that stops people using their brains.
With trying to undermine the secular state and science education.
With the roots of Christianity in an ignorant iron age barbaric tribal god.
With believing the bible is true with no good reaso
With a religion that uses threats of hell and fear to ensure compliance
With Christians glossing over - The LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies!
And then claiming their god is the essence of love and arbiter of what is good.
Other than that if people worship their gods without impacting the rights of others, no problem.
So we agree killing children is bad. You still don't seem to accept that it is also bad when Yahweh does it.
The excuses, the refusal to see the evil in this book and the god it describes. You god is a divine dictator. If a human did half of what he did you would call him a monster as per pharaoh
Jun 15 2013: This line of thinking is based on the assumption mankind is INNOCENT. Man is created, at the behest of this creator god who then, out of the blue, decides to rain fire and brimstone, orders genocide because he wants to, and basically wants to brainwash people.
Thus: God is a cruel tyrant and horrible taskmaster who is evil and loves to play with his creatures as though they were ants.
This is rubbish.
The Bible teaches God created this world and universe out of nothing by the power of His Word, in the space of 6 days and all very good. It was perfect creation. No death. No suffering. Man was created in the image of God - that is to say, a living soul, in knowledge of God, righteousness, and holiness with dominion over the creatures.
He entered into a Covenant with man forbidding him to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, upon the pain of death, as a test of probation to Man.
Man rebelled. He disobeyed God's Covenant and violated it. The Covenant was made not just with Adam but his whole posterity. All mankind, descending from our First Parents, by ordinary generation. Therefore we're all treated as having sinned in Adam and fallen in Adam because God reckons that judgment to ALL by virtue of the Covenant he made with Adam.
We are all rooted in Adam (we come from Adam who rebelled), so God in his righteous judgement regards mankind as EVIL... We're treated as oathbreakers; violaters.
So... coming to the flood, mankind was full of evil. The whole world was filled with violence: "And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth" (Genesis 6:12). "The imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" - Genesis 6:5.
God send the flood to destroy the wickedness of man. It wasn't "housekeeping" - like some trivial bits of dust. Man was evil, so God destroyed man, save for Noah and his family.Jun 16 2013: i am sorry that this is your vision of christianity. the truth is as different as day and night. Christians that say they are doing evil things in God's name are wrong and it is not doctrine. your sense of christianity comes from that. mine comes from the bible.Jun 15 2013: God also ordered children killed and drowned them in the flood.
1 Samuel 15:3 God commands the death of helpless "suckling" infants. This literally means that the children god killed were still nursing.
Psalms 135:8 & 136:10 Here god is praised for slaughtering little babies.
Psalms 137:9 Here god commands that infants should be "dashed upon the rocks".
So why is it okay when your god kills and not when others do.
This is a huge blind spot many Christians have.
Now on top of calling global genocide good house keeping you say God etch-a-sketched existence.
I am dumbfounded.
I really am.
How easy it is to make concessions for your god and align mass murder with clearing a screen. If someone said Hitler did housekeeping on the Jews and Gypsies wouldn't you be stunned.
I really don't understand how you can not see what is wrong with this way of thinking.
You really can not defend this on any sound moral basis. At best you might say you don't understand. Or you don't like it but it is the way it is. But you seem to be endorsing and defending genocide and murder when God does it.
This is similar mindset to accepting jihad and the subjugation of women and persecution of homosexuals being a virtue as it is following gods commandments.
Religion seems to have the power to make good people accept dumb things.
Jun 15 2013: To refute: 1 Samuel 15:3: - The Amalekites, a nomadic people of the desert were already marked people because of their unjustified attack of on Israel in the wilderness after leaving Egypt. As a result, the Amelekites were doomed to annihiliation by God (Exodus 17:14; Deuteronomy 25:19) but it would not be immediate. Here God commanded Saul to destroy them as a severe judgment on those who would destroy His own people.
Psalm 135:8 - The Lord killed the Egyptian first born because the Egyptians, years earlier, had issued a holocaust (effectively) as a way of keeping the Jewish population down. Pharoah ordered the firstborn of the Jews to be destroyed with sword. God executed divine vengeance against the Egyptian firstborn,
Psalm 137 - Babylon had carried the Jewish people away into slavery. Again, God was going to act for His people.
This isnt a huge blind spot. The blind spot on your part is not knowing the context of these verses.
Jihad is totally man made and man driven with no authority from God on high. Jihad is performed in the belief killing will result in eternal salvation.
The Bible teaches no such thing.
Christianity does not make people "accept dumb things" - because personally I cannot rejoice in what my mind rejects.
Christ commanded us to love the lord your God with all your heart and with all your MIND" - Matt 22:37. When he said exercise faith, it was not a "blind faith" that causes "people to accept dumb things" but rather an "intelligent faith". Paul said, "I know whom I have believed" (2 Tim 1:12)
Faith in Christianity is based on evidence. It is a reasonable faith. Faith in the Christian sense goes beyond reason but never against it.
The evidence? Consider the claims of Christ.Jun 12 2013: Some more interesting comments.
More feedback later, but science doesn't disprove all gods, it kind of makes them irrelevant or unnecessary in explaining nature once we have a decent grasp of how Something works. So no need for gods to explain floods, disease, drought, earthquakes, lightening, but Zeus may still exist. We can not disprove he is having a glass of wine in another dimension or on planet kolob.
But again not being able to disprove a magical concept is not a good reason to believe.Jun 12 2013: Actually I was a born again Christian, speaking in tongues, cast out demons, or so I thought.
So my starting point was the bible was true, literally. Just the more I examined this, the more I realised there was no good reason to believe this just as there is no good reason to believe the Koran or other religions.
These days I try to start with an open mind, and look for compelling evidence to back up claims. Some of my comments do reflect conclusions from looking at the evidence. Other times I'm simply not accepting supernatural claims without having sufficient evidence or drawing parallels with similar beliefs to yours that you don't believe.
Doesn't nearly every religion and every religionist have their own rationale why their beliefs are special?
Being an old book, mentioning some historical places, does not make the bible infallible. It takes faith to believe that. Just like faith in any supernatural type belief.
The bible is unique, but so is the koran. There is nothing unique in the sense that sets it apart from all other religious texts, based on my examination and understanding.
What is spirit? How did god make the universe and get around the laws of nature to perform miracles. How is it different from magic?
Jun 15 2013: I wonder what it was that made you think otherwise?
I agree... being unique does not prove the Bible is true. But it is VERY UNLIKE the Koran.
The Bible was written over a 1600 year span, over 60 generations, by 40 plus authors from every walk of life including kings, peasants, philosophers, fishermen, poets, statesmen, scholars etc. Written in different places (Moses in the wilderness, Paul inside prison walls, John on the isle of Patmos), at different times, different moods, written across 3 continents - Africa, Asia, Europe.
The Bible, at first sight appears to be a collection of literature - mainly Jewish. But I can tell you... enquire further and the writers wrote in various lands, and were separated from each other by hundreds of years and miles, belonging to the most diverse walks of life. Written in 2 different languages, by people that included - as I said, kings, herdsmen, soldiers, legislators, fishermen, statesmen, courtiers, priests and prophets, a tentmaking rabbi, a physician (Luke)... For all that, the Bible is not simply an anthology - there is a unity that binds the whole together. An anthology is compiled by an anthologist, but no anthologist compiled the Bible. What is this unity? This unfolding story that progresses as the books progress? God's redemption of man.
Take just 10 authors, all from one walk of life, one generation, one place, one time, one mood, one continent, one language and one controversial subject... would all the authors agree?Jun 15 2013: It's unique in its survival and persecution... Take Voltaire, the noted French critic who died in 1778... he said that in 100 years from his time Christianity would be swept away from existence and passed into history. But what has happened? Voltaire has passed into history, and only 50 years after his death the Geneva Bible Society used his press and house to produce stacks of Bibles! Ironic...
No other book has been so chopped, knifed, sifted, scrutinised, vilified, hated. What book on philosophy or science has been subject to such a mass attack as the Bible? with such scepticism and venom? and yet... the Bible is still loved by millions, studied by millions and read by millions...
Muhammed never once pointed to any prophecies of the coming of Muhammed hundreds of years before his birth.
If I can quote Philip Schaff (the Person of Christ)... "This Jesus of Nazareth, without money and arms, conquered more millions than Alexander, Ceasar, Mohammed, and Napoleon; without science and learning, he shed more light on things human and divine that all philosophers and scholars combined; without the eloquence of schools he spoke such words of life never spoken before or since... He set more pens in motion, and furnished themes for more sermons, orations, discussions, learned volumes, works of art, and songs of praise than the whole army of great men of ancient and modern times..."
Think of the effect the Bible has had on secular literature... evoked a HUGE volume of literature.. my own opinion is if you are intelligent, IF you are searching for the truth, read the book that has drawn more attention than any other.
True, doesn't prove it's THE TRUTH. But you'd seriously consider its weight and the claims its makesJun 12 2013: I am sorry Tom, but creationists don't get to divide science in a way they better like in order to dismiss the parts they don't like. There's no boundary between the sciences that we use to gather information about the cosmos and stars and planets and galaxies that we might never touch, those used to figure out the history of our own planet, and those that we use for current and nearby events. When Newton figured out gravitation and its role in shaping the orbits of the planets it was spectacular because it joined the cosmos with our everyday life. It made it possible to show that the same forces that shaped the trajectory of a cannonball were involved in the shape of the orbits of the planets. Therefore we were shown to be, no doubt, part of that very same cosmos. Everyday connected to far away. Today there's much more showing this connection, and we have no reason to doubt that those connections from here to far away are the same as those connecting today with the long past. Even better because it is not an isolated piece of evidence, but multiple sources of evidence that do either connections, today with the long past, and here to far away. So, no, it's not a simple matter of presuppositions, but a matter of wishful thinking versus acceptance that if reality includes gods, then we should not find evidence contradicting what is said to be done / have been done by such gods. That we find multiple sources of evidence that our planet is billions of years old means that it indeed is billions of years old. That we find multiple sources of evidence that evolution is real means that evolution is real. If the facts contradicts the gods, then those gods are false. No amount of presuppositions can defy reality.Jun 12 2013: My experience is similar to Obey's by the way. When I started understanding science, I started doubting the first god I believed (the Christian no-evolution, 6000 year old earth, god). My version of god "evolved," until I noticed that no amount of movement would rescue this god from being imaginary. Once evidence is understandable, it becomes precarious and, frankly, silly, to keep trying to accommodate the evidence to the belief, and/or to deny the evidence as mere artifacts. The truth is that the evidence is way too convincing. That there's no tricking, and that when we try and fix it by allowing for changes in how nature worked in the past, is just feels like way too curious that all works well without those changes with such things as the age of our planet, and evolution of life, all makes sense, while changing the laws feels artificial and still does not fix the problem that the evidence won't fit the Bible anyway. The most that happens when changing the way nature worked in the past to try and accommodate the Bible is that evolution would run much faster, or isotopes decay much faster without exploding, and other weird stuff.
I know this will not convince you. But I could not resist making the comment. The rhetoric behind the presupposition argument sounds convincing enough that some might be misguided by it and truly think that just changing one bit of what you think would truly change everything. No such luck ladies and gentlemen. Unless you prefer to think nonsensically. Then anything goes.
Jun 13 2013: Excellent point, because almost all atheists/agnostics are born into religion, and it is just childhood abusive that religion is implemented into minds before anything scientific. Atheists in america are rated on par just as untrustworthy as rapists. Agnosticism is okay, but atheism is just taboo to humanity so it appears. Evidence is clear and it shows that there just is no reason at all for a god, and that something really can come from nothing.
There's an unarguable trend of atheism being related to education...Jun 13 2013: Science does not make god impossible, it just makes him improbable.
Jun 13 2013: depends on the gods in question.
Jun 13 2013: christianity god isnt necessarily impossible. yet.Jun 13 2013: For me personally when I looked at what I believed and why I believed it I figured out there wasn't a really good reason. It was just a combination of weak positions.
E.g. I believed in the resurrection because it was in the bible and the bible talked about eye witnesses. People must have believed it was real etc.
But I believed in the bible because of the resurrection. Its kind of circular.
If I turned water into wine and raised someone from the dead after 4 days would you believed I was a being capable of creating the universe? Even if I died and came alive again, that is not in the same league as creating a universe from nothing.
And the feelings, the so called connection to the holy spirit when you let go of your inhibitions, sway with the music, raise your hands or pray intensely or whatever, it could just be your mind. There is no evidence this feeling is a person etc. In fact I get more amazing brain states when I meditate. People with other beliefs get similar feelings. People on drugs get even more intense feelings.
The dodgy prophecies, which even if true don't make the whole bible true.
Then the arguments about the uncaused cause. Totally fallacious. etc etc
I could go on about every reason I had to believe and it was all suspect.
Now with some distance and much better informed when I look back on Christianity or on Islam or buddhism and there are aspects that you can unpack, and the whole thing just looks so man made. It is entirely compatible with being manmade relying on so called revelations and feelings and interpretations of these feelings informed by old books. So the creator of the universe relied on books. Plain old paper and ink. No verse carved large enough to read on the moon, or a magic indestructible floating crystal that answers your questions.
And when you read the bible it is bizarre. One minute god is walking around, later Jesus and this spirit thing.
No real evidence or valid reason to believe, just a whole web of beliefs.Jun 13 2013: I won't go on much longer.
But frankly in some ways Islam is more reliable. One author. Less contradictory, although there are the pagan bits, or satanic verses. Although even the bible in parts hints there are other gods. Archealogical evidence points to Hebrews also worshiping fertility gods apparently. You shall have no other gods before me is one of the commandments. It doesn't say false gods or I am the only god in the commandments. It seems to imply there are other gods.
Anyway, the koran is more coherent. 1 author. Surely it is as speculative or less to claim an angel informed the prophet then to assume magical intervention with dozens of authors over hundreds of years.
Frankly if the old testament god is the same guy as the new testament he is almost schizophrenic,
But Christians always come back to the resurrection. Have you heard Muslims rip apart this argument or the argument that Jesus was god. They do a better job than most atheists.
Yes but there were witnesses and peopled died because they believed. Well there are many old miraculous claims in old texts that mention witnesses. Like writings about one of the Pharaohs killing hundreds in battle by is own hand and allowing his forces to retreat, witnessed by an entire army, And people dying for all sorts of religious beliefs or accepting persecution, including those who know the founders in person.
I could go on about how immoral the god of the old testament is. Or how wicked it is to suggest a creator might eternally torture its creations in a lake of fire.
If you read the bible with an open mind it is so ludicrous in places. My favourite:
The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had chariots fitted with iron.
All powerful indeed.
Anyway at least you might accept that some of those who don't believe the bible do so for reasonable reasons. Similar to why you don't believe Islam.
Jun 13 2013: In all the time I have been on TED, this is the first time that I truly understand you Obey.
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Thank you for this wonderful long response.
You make some very insightful observations.
I, for one appreciated your forthcomingness......is that even a word?
Anyways, thank you so much.
Jun 13 2013: It is a word now, but may not make it into a dictionary.
Sorry to any offended if I come across as harsh.
I often rush my comments and leave out the softening phrases etcJun 11 2013: Cheyenne, your answer lies within a book, "The Holy Bible." If you read it from cover to cover, objectively, you will find your answer. P.S. archaeologists have proven the historical significance of the bible and have dated many of the books contained within to be true accounts of history.
John V. it is not impossible for me, a very faithful and believing christian, to understand why it may be impossible for you to not believe in God. He is not here to give you any evidence of His existence that can be scrutinized by someone you would deem worthy and believable. Thomas was the same way, after the resurrection, until Jesus showed up. Thomas still refused to believe it was Jesus until he was allowed to touch His wounds and reach inside them. There have been many letters from those days that account for Jesus' resurrection, even from the Ceasar of that time period.
That is why we as christians are asked to have faith in Him, because the Bible was written by Him through men by Holy guidance and inspiration. I was as cynical as you once, that is why i can say that i know where you are coming from, "No proof means No existence." But I allowed myself to experience Him, I went in to the whole thing thinking i was going to disprove Him and not experience anything, but i did. I experienced the truth. I challenge you to do the same, or not, it won't hurt my salvation either way.
Jun 12 2013: Jonathan,
I suggest many have believed in may other gods or goddesses with supporting evidence just as good as Christians have.
I have read the old and new testaments cover to cover, although I must admit to speeding through the genealogies etc. It just looks like a collection of Jewish mythology and unreliable;e histories in the first part. And a collection of letters and oral stories of the legendary Jesus figure recorded decades after his death in the second. Frankly I was shocked at the brutality of Yahweh and his chosen people. Some nice help the poor stuff in the NT, but then we have a brutal blood sacrifice and threats of eternal punishment. Overall not really a god worth worshiping in my view, unless in fear. You can call Yahweh all loving if you want but he is not by any reasonable standard.
Seems you have a lot of faith in the claims the bible makes with little compelling evidence. About as much as the writings of other religions. Perhaps more so than Islam where the writing and compilation of the Koran was more orderly than the bible.
I suggest it takes a lot of faith to believe the claims in the bible as there is no compelling evidence for many of them from the sun standing still, to donkeys talking to water changing into wine, and especially the resurrection. That anyone can believe this just based essentially on the bible claims confounds me.
Funny that Jesus never wrote anything down as far as we know and we have to get it all second hand or worse decades after. How do you know the gospels didn't largely build on the earliest one? How do you know it is all historically accurate in key details. You don't really.
Resurrection and rebirth stories were nothing new in that region. Even if it did occur it is a huge leap to assume everything in the bible is correct and that Jesus is a god.
I expect if people applied the same skepticism to Christianity as they do to other beliefs they might be more aligned to my position.
Jun 12 2013: Hi Obey,
I can believe in the possibility of the so called miracles, because there is probably some rational explanation, that we are not aware of. After all, I'm alive, when that was not supposed to be the case according to the medical model:>)
What confounds me the most, is the contradiction and hypocracy. Most religions start out with the golden rule, love thy neighbor as thyself, etc.
The dogma of most religions, however, continues to divide and seperate people as we see with a recent comment on this thread..."Everyone else's interpretation and guidelines and everything else that they made up is false".
I don't understand why some folks cannot accept each other. This is the biggest thing that pushed me away from a religious belief, and it keeps reinforcing my belief that many religious groups and individuals are hypocritical, contradictory and not accepting of other people.Jun 12 2013: Curious because I have read the bible objectively and found it to be stories written by primitive cultures. Some fantasies are quite imaginative, sometimes there's good insight into people's psychologists, but that's the highest points that could be made about it, and none is impossible for normal people to arrive at. There's also lots of brutality and tons over tons of nonsense. That some stuff might have coincidences with historical events is no more surprising than Harry Potter having some good descriptions of London, which is a real city. London in Harry Potter does not make magic a reality. The bible is a mixture of evolving cultures. It reflects the good, the bad and the ugly of those cultures, and it is far from being divine.
Jun 12 2013: What about the prophecies of Daniel???Jun 13 2013: What about those prophecies Jonathan? Did you check the books of Daniel, and the historical facts yourself, or were you told that all was fine and perfectly "predicted" by someone else whose word you took for granted? Did you check how much eisegesis was necessary to make the Bible fit the facts, or how much twisting of facts was necessary to make them fit the Bible? Did you check for any ambiguities that could have meant anything else, yet were interpreted after-the-fact in ways similar to reading the sunday horoscopes?
Reading objectively means reading objectively. being willing to change historical records, dates, kings, queens, et cetera to fit a book is not objective. It is not objective either to ignore all kinds of mistakes and contradictions to turn around and rely on a few things that could look somewhat legit, like London being the name of a real city, to claim that the whole of Harry Potter is real and divine.Jun 10 2013: Why would god have us argue this issue? If you exist, for gods sake, show yourself so we can be finally rid of this problem.
Jun 10 2013: Makes sense to me Craig!
There is a life to live here and now. Why would a god(s) put us all here on earth to continually debate god/no god.......funny!!!
It just occured to me.....perhaps the gods are out there somewhere having the same discussion about humans??? LOL:>)Jun 10 2013: God Almighty was not the form of human beings. It was magnanimous primordial cosmic energy, size of half a thumb... collective power of all souls' atmans in cosmos in their pure form! As per scriptures of Hinduism God Almighty always acted as a Dhrishta (onlooker)... never interfering with creation of his! Everything in cosmic system was governed by inscrutable laws of karma and evolution. As our karma... accordingly shaped our destiny!
Anything relating to God Almighty can only be understood by undertaking spiritual journey. If God could be known that easily... why would God Almighty ordain a long journey of 1.1 million manifestations in human form to reach God?
Mahavira (24th Tirthankara of Jainism... preceptor), Gautama Buddha, Jesus Christ and prophet Mohammed... all practiced spirituality of the highest order to reach God in their lifetime. There was no shortcut on path of pure spirituality yet; by practicing absolute celibacy for a minimum period of 12 years in continuation... one can awaken kundalini energy fully. Full kundalini awakening results in opening of Sahasra Pushpa (thousand petalled Lotus) existing in our brain behind forehead. One immediately reaches stage of an enlightened one... becomes a bodhi, a Jina... a Mahavira forever!
Normal human beings used their brain one percent, 99% always lying dormant! Albert Einstein, the famous physicist used his brain 4%. Albert Einstein indulged in Bhagavad Gita in the later stages of his life... a fact, he all the time regretted! He just wished he could have indulged in Bhagavad Gita in the early stages of life.
Enlightened beings used their brain hundred percent. To reach stage of enlightenment Jesus Christ stowed on a boat to India to learn intricacies of spiritual life. The missing years in the life of Jesus Christ (14 to 29 years of age) says it all. During these years Jesus Christ indulged in teachings of Vedas (Hinduism revelations), Upanishads (independent treatises) and Bhagavad Gita.
Jun 10 2013: I respect YOUR belief as YOUR belief. It is not everyone's belief Vijay:>)
I agree that humans sometimes do not use their/our brains as much as we could. That is why I like to think and feel for myself.
That is an interesting theory I never heard before....."Jesus Christ stowed on a boat to India" to learn Hinduism.....the plot thickens!
Chad, I cannot get a reply anywhere near your comment in any other way!
I actually did read something about the missing years of JC years ago, and was not curious enough to pursue it. I know there was/is speculation, and I don't think I ever heard the theory about going to India to study.
Jun 15 2013: Colleen the theory of the "missing years" of Christs' life wherein he was on sabbatical in India has been around since at least the Theosophical society of the 1890s. I have always liked Mark Twains' observation that apparently "Man has created God in his own image". We all live within the boundaries of our experience and to expand our comprehension beyond that takes more than a leap of faith. In the end each of us are like the three blind men describing the elephant in the Sufi story in terms of what they could touch, A tree (leg) a Python (trunk) and a rope (tail).Jun 11 2013: Jesus states that the only way to reach the Father is through Him, paraphrased John 14:6. Just to know and state that Jesus was a prophet is a horrible phars. He stated that he WAS and IS the Son of God. You may have reached enlightenment, and the tree metaphor is revealing, but what the bible says is just what i said, and the historical documents contained within, e.g. the different books of the whole bible, all prophesy of His coming was fulfilled by He that came in the form of Jesus Christ.
Jun 12 2013: Here we have the crux of religions.
One interpretation without sufficient evidence that could be entirely man made making claims that contradict the claims of another equally without evidence to support it s core claims.
As if the writers of the new testament couldn't make the Jesus story fit the prophecies.
Both these and many others are equally plausible and implausible in many respects. And from an outsiders perspective they seem equally primitive.
This reflects why we have had so many different contradictory religious beliefs. They are based on the subjective so called revelations and speculations and involve illusive beings or untestable claims.
They tend to ignore or dispute claims that conflict with science.Jun 11 2013: even if He did show Himself, you would still not believe it is Him.
Jun 11 2013: Johathan,
With all due respect for you and YOUR belief, you do not know what another person may or may not believe.
Jun 11 2013: there is ample evidence of His existence in the Bible, a historical document, and people still didn't believe back then, or now when the Bible is so readily available for anyone to read for themselves. And yes, i do know, Jesus Himself said that they wouldn't.Jun 12 2013: Jonathan,
With all due respect, I accept YOUR beliefs as YOUR beliefs. The bible was written by humans, and I agree that it is an historical document.

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This workshop is pricey ($300), but it may be a way for teachers to get a quick introduction to the NXT in a community environment.
Does anyone else know of other workshops like this in the US or elsewhere?
This workshop actually is not sponsored by TakingITGlobal; however, the Digital Divide Network site, where the details are posted, is.
If you'd like to learn more about events and resources for educators that are provided by TakingITGlobal, please visit TIGed. Thanks!
No offense to Emily or TIG, but I do have some concerns about this workshop. I am a technical trainer, by the way.
The class is 6 hours and the description states that it is for all levels (beginner, med, adv.) and will be a mixture of teachers and parents.
My first concern is the cost. At an average of $50 per hour, this is certainly not unexpected for a technical class, but in my experience the classes taught at this level of price range are usually for a specified level of skill and audience. This mixture of skill levels is a concern because, in my experience, mixing skill levels tends to be frustrating. The beginners either complain the class moves too fast or the advanced group claims the class is moving too slow. This is a common complaint in technology classes and I can see it with this workshop.
My next concern is the attempt to cover both Robolab and the NXT software, based on the needs of the class. This, too, will slow down the class and be frustrating.
Next is the lack of course syllabus, goals, and description of what the buyer will take away from the class when finished. There do not seem to be any defined goals other than to learn about the NXT.
These are just my opinions. I may be wrong and the workshop may be a complete success. I would just like to hear from Emily or TIG about my concerns. I'm not in the area to take advantage of this workshop, but as a technical trainer I am very concerned when workshops are offered that have the potential to aggravate and/or disappoint and leave a stain on my industry.
I meant to add one additional comment.
I wanted to thank the NXT step people for a great blog. I subscribe to your feed and enjoy the updates. If you hear from TIG about this workshop, I would appreciate it if you would keep us informed.
Jason Bell
Jacksonville, FL
Thanks for clarifying who sponsors the NXT workshop. (What threw me were the words at the bottom of the workshop's web page: "A Project of TakingITGlobal.org").
I think the idea of training for the NXT is good. While most people will just slog through the documentation that comes with the kit, some people will appreciate having the information taught in a group setting.
I'd like to hear more about the DDN. Do they sponsor projects similar to the one involving the NXT?
Tufts Center for Engineering Educational Outreach (CEEO) has a few NXT related workshops and events for educators.
1) For educators in the Boston Area there are
two upcoming NXT sessions
2)The CEEO works with local LEGO education distributors around the world to host
LEGO Engineering Conferences which are one day events for educators to attend presentations and workshops on the NXT and RCX. The NXT is gradually being phased in to these conferences --so check the schedule and contact the site coordinator for specific details. All 2007 Conferences are expected to address the NXT in some way.
3) For more advanced educators and advocates of LEGO Mindstorms, this January the CEEO will host a LEGO Engineering Symposium which focuses on exploring the learning potential and tools for Data Logging and Robotics with the NXT (and RCX)
Additional Sessions for the spring and summer will be announced in early 2007.


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But best scifi fantasy of all time and they put in a CS Lewis that isn't Narnia . Seems insane. No Lewis Carroll either or Baum. Wheres Harry Potter and what is the scientologist loony bins rubbish doing on the list. Theres worse mistakes than missing Pyramids
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- Beautifully upholstered inside and out, and sewn with decorative tufting along the padded top
- Lined with 100% cotton in chocolate
- Stocked in petal solid brushed cotton with chocolate button tufting.
- Stands on dark walnut-finished feet
- Fabric is treated with stain-resistant finish
Shown in petal brushed cotton.
arden tufted chest
- 38"W x 20"D x 20"H
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Learning Center Goals
- To provide a pleasant, professional, friendly learning environment where students, faculty, and staff feel welcome and receive assistance.
- To provide tutorial services for students referred by professors.
- To be accessible to all Kent State students.
- To provide support services that lead to academic success and the attainment of individual goals.
- To create an educational environment that provides learning opportunities for all learning styles and respects the uniqueness of each individual learner.
- To provide teaching strategies, alternative methods of learning, and appropriate reading and study skills to meet the needs of a diverse learning population.
- To encourage students to take responsibility for learning.
- To challenge students to see beyond the classroom and apply their learning to a global society.


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From: $159,900The Oceanside (1564 sq. ft.) is a 1-story home with 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms and 2.0-car garage. Features include basement, living room, sun room and walk in closets.
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14 Rockport Court, Troy, Missouri 63379
See phone number and office hours
636-462-1544 - Hours: Mon, Tues & Wed 10-5, Thur-Fri by appointment only, Sat & Sun 11-5
From $130,900
1,088 sq ft
3br 2ba 2gr
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416 Fredricksburg Way (The Essex)
From $134,195
1,100 sq ft
3br 2ba 2gr
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From $135,900
1,216 sq ft
3br 2ba 2gr
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From $140,900
1,283 sq ft
3br 2ba 2gr
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From $147,900
1,447 sq ft
3br 2ba 2gr
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From $148,900
1,452 sq ft
3br 2ba 2gr
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From $149,900
1,323 sq ft
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From $123,900
1,005 sq ft
2br 1ba 2gr
2 Photos
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Gettysburg Commons is a Cannon Builders new home community offering single family homes ranging from 1005 sq. ft to 1948 sq. ft. and from $119,900 to $179,900. The neighborhood is located along Highway 70 on the western edge of Warren County, MO. Easy highway access allows convenient commutes to St. Charles and St. Louis Counties. Gettysburg is located directly across the street from the local schools and just minutes from shopping, dining, and medical facilities.Free Brochure
Actual schools may vary. Contact the builder for more information.
Highway 70 West to Exit 199- Make a right off of the exit ramp and follow to stop sign. Make a left at the stop sign onto the North Service Rd. Follow the N. Service Rd. to Right on Bell Road. Our subdivision is on the left hand side!
Gettysburg Commons
by Cannon Builders, Inc.
14 Rockport Court
Wright City, Missouri 63390
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Earlier this week I posted a thread asking the board whether or not knees should be banned on the ground in WMMA fights. An article in this month's Fighter's Only got me thinking about changes to the rules that could take place as MMA continues to grow.
These rule changes might come about in the interests of improving/maintaining fighter safety, rectifying any ill-conceived rules that might favour one style over another, or to keep the sport from stagnation. Either way, I see it as inevitable that rules will be tweaked and changed over the next few years.
So... to go to the point. The article I mentioned above was about whether or not the length (and number) of rounds in MMA fights under the unified rules should be changed.
A number of old school fighters (Don Frye, K.Shamrock) - and some new-school fighters too like Gunnar Nelson - stated that they preferred the 10min/5min/5min set-up of Pride, or the no-time limit days of the early UFC's.
Others suggested having 3, 3-minute rounds, so that the 'feeling out' process would be bypassed, with fighters coming out aggressive to try and win each round.
So I'll say it again: What does the board think? Should rounds be shorter, or longer? Should there be more of them, or less? What about main events and title fights?
Personally, I'd like to see things stay the same for standard fights, but for main events (or maybe only 'official number one contender fights') and title fights I'd like to see a 10-minute opening round, followed by 4 rounds of 30-minutes. How many times have we seen awesome title fights that have ended just as the tides are turning (see Aldo/Hominick)?
Anyone, throw your two pennies worth in the pot!


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The ringleaders behind the ARG that started nearly 10 years ago with Junko Junsui step out from behind the curtain to tell CNET their story.
All-girl Japanese group has nearly 100 members, including one who's computer-generated; myriad otaku fans; and a new diplomatic assignment.
The new anime personification of Internet Explorer is a sassy girl who fights robots, dresses like a sexy otaku girl, and pets her cat while surfing the Net.
The classic mecha series is getting live-action treatment with director Mamoru Oshii at the helm.
The private social network opens up to allow users to share updates from more than a dozen camera and fitness applications.
Media finds weird news impossible to resist, even when it sounds too silly to be true. But it can fool people especially easily when coming from a place like Japan, birthplace of wacky trends.
While there are strong similarities between the two mecha-versus-monster tales, Guillermo del Toro's stunning visual roller-coaster goes in its own direction.
The rest of us may scream in terror, but these 1:12-scale loos suggest all sorts of freaky action-figure fun to titillate the otaku geek set.
Japan's Legend Toys is coming out with a Jobs figure that includes a sofa. Will Apple try to stop sales again?
If you're looking for a good excuse to check out someone's backside, Shippo's new emotion-controlled mechanical tail is just the ticket.


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Department of Nursing
Bachelor of Science in Nursing (B.S.N.) Degree
Majors in Nursing
University Core Curriculum Requirements
Refer to the "University Core Curriculum" section of the catalog.
NOTE: BIOL 2401 and 2402 with concurrent lab, required for nursing majors, meets University Core Curriculum science requirements.
Additional Nursing Requirements
Admission Requirements for the Department of Nursing
Students may appeal Admissions Committee decisions, first to the committee and then to the head of the Department of Nursing. Exceptions, resulting in conditional admission, will be considered on an individual basis by the head of the Department of Nursing.
Advanced Standing
Registered nurses or others with previous experience and education in nursing must be admitted to the Department of Nursing through the same procedure as all students. Advanced standing will be determined after evaluation of transcripts. For further information, refer to "Advanced Placement and Credit by Examination" in the catalog.
Re-admission to the Department of Nursing
Re-admission to the Department of Nursing is not automatic. Students must re-apply to the department after withdrawal or failure in any semester. Students who make grades of "D" or below two times in nursing courses will not be allowed to continue in the program. A student who leaves the program for any reason may be permitted to re-enroll based on (1) individual qualifications and (2) available space. The student's record of dropped courses or withdrawals from the University will be considered. Satisfactory scores on comprehensive examinations covering nursing theory and clinical course work previously completed will be required for basic students who have not been enrolled in nursing courses at WTAMU for five or more years.
Major in Nursing—For Licensed Vocational Nurses (Major Code: 713)
Licensed Vocational Nurses
(For students who already are licensed vocational nurses.)
Licensed Vocational nurses will receive credit for NURS 2350.


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Hello there,
It is with a sad heart that I announce that Aegis7 has shutdown. It has served the Dead Space community quite well for a very long time.
Lots of people who enjoyed the Dead Space series found a home here and made friendships, contributed and engaged with others. We had some laughs (and screams).
It was my hope that Dead Space 4 would be just around the corner and so we all waited, and waited and waited. Waiting for Visceral or *something* to breathe life back into the Dead Space series.
Thus, Aegis7 will be put on stasis. The database will be kept and if Dead Space 4 (or some form of Dead Space) returns,
Aegis7 may very well follow in its footsteps.
For now, please take care of yourselves and continue holding out hope that Dead Space will
live on
Sincerely yours,
The Administratior


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Made for the man who has spent countless hours shooting his own originals, MOSCOT introduces The TERRY LE – a new limited edition collaboration inspired by iconic photographer, Terry Richardson and his signature aviator specs.
A fixture on Terry, and often spotted on the faces of his subjects and the celebrities he shoots, The TERRY LE is as angular as it is oversized – essential for hours spent creating magic behind the lens. The frames – limited to only 350 pairs (225 Black, 125 Grey) – are laser numbered for authenticity and shipped in their own special edition cases.
The faithfully reproduced TERRY LE is made of acetate with a key hole bridge with cut out detail, a five barrel hinge, and two dot rivets at the temples, and is available as ophthalmic eyewear or sunglasses, with or without a prescription.


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It's been 20 years since "Star Trek: The Next Generation" aired its final episode on May 23, 1994. With two decades having passed since the show left the airwaves, take a look at where its stars are today.
Brent Spiner played Lt. Commander Data, an android who serves as operations officer and third-in-command. Early on in the series, the character's difficulties in understanding various aspects of human behavior is frequently used as comic relief. However, he strives to become more human over the course of the series.


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Product 5/9
Watch the IGN Cheap Cool Crazy episode featuring this AEG!Limited Edition Custom Alien Pulse Rifle Airsoft AEG
The Alien Pulse rifle is the first FULL COMPLETE AEG modeled after the infamous primary weapon on the USCM also known as the United States Colonial Marines in the movie Aliens. This AEG is custom built with all the bells and whistles that the old Pulse Rifle kit used to have for over $400 JUST for the kit! This rifle has a working LED counter just like in the movie! It counts down from 95 rounds to 0! With a working retractable stock, Ver 6 gearbox, and shooting 380 FPS, this is a must buy for all those collectors and enthusiasts!
Length: 685mm - 785mm, AdjustableWeight: 3600gMagazine Capacity: 190rd Hi-Capacity Custom Thompson Magazine. Compatible with Tokyo Marui and other similar M1 Thompson Series Airsoft AEG MagazinesMuzzle Velocity: 360~380 FPS (Measured with 0.20g BBs)Gearbox: Ver 6 Full Metal, Fully UpgradeableMotor: Hi-Torque Short TypeFire Modes: Semi/Full-Auto, SafePackage Includes: Gun, MagazineBattery: 8.4v Small Stick Type recommended. 9v Battery required for LCD Ammo Counter (Batteries not included)Hopup: Yes, AdjustableCaliber / BB: 6mm. Best with 0.23g or heavier bb.


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Chairmans Club Baseball ServiceSTEP UP TO THE PLATE WITH KELSO STURGEON'S CHAIRMAN'S CLUB BASEBALL SERVICE. Make the national pastime your personal ATM!
Kelso 2015 Best Bets Baseball ClubYou Can Win Each Day For Just $15 - And Spend $2,700 For The Season, Or You Can Get On Board For The Entire Season Right Through The World Series For Just $199
50-Unit American League Game Of WeekThe big-game winning continues for my highrollers and tonight they will be going for their second straight 50-Unit American League Game of the Week. $25
Monday Best Bets Ready To Sweep - On a 5-0 RunBaseball Sweeps Sunday 3-0 With 3 Underdogs... Went 5-0 Over The Weekend And Set To Win Two More Tonight. $15
Mountain West Conference Football Preview
BOISE STATE STILL FAVORED TO WIN "MOUNTAIN" DIVISION OF MWC DESPITE LOSING POTENT WEAPONSWe begin our summer series of college football conference previews today with the Mountain West Conference. Momentarily we'll look at the Mountain Division featuring Boise State and Utah State. Tomorrow we head West to look at a wide-open division where San Diego State is the early favorite to lead the pack.This is one of our favorite parts of the summer! Let's jump right in.
Your Fourth of July Weekend Homework
Kelso's Advanced Sports Betting: Your Fourth of July Weekend HomeworkThere are few holidays when you're a professional sports bettor. There are always games to bet! Even Christmas NBA games. New Year's Eve and New Year's have the bowl extravaganzas. Pick a holiday...and there's a game on TV that might be worth betting. Often, "dumb money" from the public becomes a big factor because the public likes watching TV games on their holidays.So, this July Fourth weekend isn't a time for you to sit back and relax. Sure, you can have a hot dog or two. Enjoy a picnic with the family and watch the fireworks. FOR A FEW HOURS! Otherwise, keep your eye on the ball as you watch games and plan out your handicapping strategies for the second half of the 2015 Major League Baseball season.
Exclusive Coverage of all MLB 7/1/2015
Harang hopes to get on track against Brewers
(SportsNetwork.com) - Aaron Harang is one of three pitchers with 10 losses this season and hopes to avoid an 11th Wednesday, when he leads the Philadelphia Phillies into the third contest of a four-game series with the Milwaukee Brewers.
Exclusive Coverage of all NFL 6/30/2015
Extra Points: Bennett is far down on Seahawks' list
(SportsNetwork.com) - NFL players have a very short shelf life to make significant amounts of money so it's tough to fault anyone who has outperformed a contract when they go knocking on the door to ask for more.


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The Park Planning, Design + Capital Projects Division is committed to relating the park and recreational needs of Alexandria's residents to long range planning and future projects. To contact us, e-mail to Judy Lo or Beth Znidersic for Capital Project information; Dana Wedeles or Laura Durham for Planning questions; David Ghezzi for Architecture; or Ron Kagawa, Division Chief of Park Planning, Design + Capital Projects.
Current Construction Projects:
Alexandria adopted an Open Space Master Plan in 2003. The plan seeks to enhance and grow the City's open spaces through an established framework of fifteen open space goals. Since its inception, City staff continues to work with the public to achieve the goals set forth in the plan. A total of just over 68 acres of the 100 acre of open space goal has been acquired, dedicated or put into conservation and public access easements since 2003. Significant achievements include:
In addition, the City actively pursues outreach opportunities to increase public awareness of open space preservation. Recent and upcoming activities include conservation easement workshops, ongoing participation in civic association meetings, and regular updates in RPCA media outlets.
Please contact Laura Durham, Open Space Coordinator, for more information at 703.746.5493.
More Information
Master Plans
The Park Facility Standards Manual (Standards) establishes the minimum design, construction and performance expectations and requirements for the City's park features. The intent of the Standards is to inform and guide park and open space planning, capital improvements and capital maintenance and to sustain life-cycle resource investments in public space. The Standards are a reference instrument for selection of materials, fixtures, and systems and integrate City criteria with industry standards and applicable Federal/State/City requirements into a primary single-source document. Anticipated benchmarks for performance/function, safety, environmental impact, and anticipated maintenance/life- cycle resource needs are established by each Standard. Although established in Summer, 2012, the Park Facility Standards Manual is a living document that is updated and re-evaluated coincident with advancements in industry, changes in the City's park and open space system, and recreational needs.
Information in the manual is not intended to replace or function as specifications, construction documents, or contract documents.
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