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Doughnut Jimmy wrote:Don't know about THE first but there was a series called Puddle Lane (I think) which had dragons and other exciting things in that would have been fairly early in my reading life
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Hello all!
So I was reading through a couple news topics/forum topics like I usually do, and I finally just broke down and said to myself, "I should just register and get it over with." I've been lurking the forums for the past 10 years now, and have seen Neowin go through tons of upgrades/changes over the years, members become moderators, and remember a few people with posts such as "My 100th Post" who have 10,000 or more posts. I've actually been excited about the possibility of being in the same thread with people such as Mephistopheles, Warwagon, or Nidoking (one of my favorite pokemon as a kid, haha.)
Hope to have a great stay!


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As the amount of land available for new development in the United States continues to shrink, builders, developers and architects say that adaptive reuse and historical restoration projects are the wave of the future. The days when everything was about greenfield development is long gone.
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- David Steele
- Davis, CA
- United States
This conversation is closed.
Should criminal sentencing be oriented towards punishment or rehabilitation?
There are basically two lines of thought on what the goal of criminal sentencing (this means after guilt has been proven) should be: justice for the victim, which is usually used to mean punishment for the perpetrator, and rehabilitation for the perpetrator, which means working to make him a functioning member of society. Examples of policies favoring justice for the victim would include the death penalty, as it precludes the possibility of rehabilitation, and life sentences without the possibility of parole, for the same reason. Examples of policies favoring rehabilitation for the perpetrator include in-prison education for inmates, because the aim is to prepare them to find a job on the outside, reducing their dependence on crime and hopefully make them functioning members of society, and parole systems, because they allow for the possibility that if a convict can reform his ways, and has the possibility of functioning well on the outside, he should be released. There are of course, various compromises within those philosophies. One such mixture of philosophies can be seen in the minimum time requirements for parole; which state that inmates granted the possibility of parole must first serve a set number of years out of their sentence before they can be considered for parole. The idea of these minimum time requirements are to provide a deterrent while still allowing for rehabilitation. However critics say that there can be no compromise between these ideas, because if there is any immutable punishment, that contradicts the idea that if the convict is rehabilitated he is released, favoring a deterrent, which has nothing to do with the individual's possibility. So: do you think that these two concepts can exist symbiotically? If so, how? If not, which do you think we should abide by? As a side-note, all my examples are from U.S. law. I would be very interested to hear examples of these concepts from wherever you live.
Oct 7 2012: I suggest both.
Also locking people up may be something else, not just punishment. It may protect society from those who are a threat.
Whether we have free will or not, some fear of punishment is a partial deterrent either consciously or unconsciously.
Also, whether we have free will or not, if you put alternative ideas or options in other peoples heads, either conscious or unconscious, if you can change their habits, you may help prevent future crimes.
Assuming you don't lock every convicted criminal for life for every crime, they will get out one day. Why not give rehabilitation a try. Why not try it on a volunteer or compulsory basis and check the data.
In fact, if there is data to show attempts at rehabilitation work, and the benefits outweigh the costs why not give it a go?
Oct 7 2012: Precisely!
Mats K
Oct 7 2012: "In fact, if there is data to show attempts at rehabilitation work, and the benefits outweigh the costs why not give it a go?"
- 0
I would go as far as saying that if the data shows that rehabilitation works better than punishment, it should be done regardless of cost.
Oct 7 2012: A man comes home from work, finds his wife in bed with another man and shoots her. The man is convicted for manslaughter. Chances of him ever doing it again are tiny (because he wasn't a deranged serial killer and the situation of him catching his wife cheating is unlikely to repeat in his lifetime), even without any efforts at rehabilitation. Are you saying he should not receive any punishment at all?
@Mats below
At the time of the trial it really doesn't matter how the perpetrator became who he is. My point was that a person committing a crime only once does not make that crime and the damage done by it any less serious. When some vandal damages your car for $5000 and then is rehabilitated and never vandalizes anything again, you're still left with a $5000 bill if the vandalism is not forced to pay you. There is more to crime than recidivity statistics: damage is done and has to be compensated for, preferably by the perpetrators, this is why punishment is so much more than primitive revenge.
@David Steele
Seeing prison as compensation may seem hard but the vast majority of punishments are fines or community service, clearly those are about repairing damage. In cases where the perpetrator cannot afford a fine a prison sentence is there to assure that not only wealthier perpetrators are punished. Also, while prison may not deter our one-time passion killer, jailing him may deter others, at the very least it will prevent a wave of killers trying to stay out of jail by claiming they only killed out of passion. At some level the parents of the victim may find compensation in the fact that the killer of their child is forced to have a hard time and think about the consequences of his actions. Lastly, an efficient prison system (which not every country has), and/or the prisoner's reduced income potential after release will redistribute wealth away from the perpetrator to the rest of society.
Mats K
Oct 7 2012: Human behavior is subject to the same laws as any other natural phenomenon. Our customs, behaviors, and values are byproducts of our culture. No one is born with greed, prejudice, bigotry, patriotism and hatred; these are all learned behavior patterns. If the environment is unaltered, similar behavior will reoccur.
- +1
If you were raised by the headhunters of the Amazon as a baby, if you saw nothing else, you'd be a headhunter. If you were raised in Nazi Germany where all you see is 'Heil Hitler', you'd be a Nazi. So I think all people are perfectly well adjusted where they're coming from. There's no such thing as good or bad people. You're taught to hate certain people, but where they're coming from, it's normal. If you're brought up in the South, uneducated region, you might become a member of the Ku Klux Klan, you speak with a Southern accent. Where do you get that from? The environment. Where do you get, 'I'm gonna get me a nigger and kick his ass'. You get that from the environment. It's not that people are good or bad. They're raised in an aberrated or twisted environment.
So, the more justice you seek, the more hurt you become because there's no such thing as justice. There is whatever there is out there. That's it... The point is we have to redesign the environment that produces aberrant behaviour. That's the problem. Not putting a person in jail. That's why judges, lawyers, 'freedom of choice': such concepts are dangerous because it gives you mis-information that the person is 'bad', or that person is a 'serial killer'. Serial killers are made, just like soldiers become serial killers with a machine gun. They become killing machines, but nobody looks at them as murderers or assassins because that's 'natural'". So we blame people. We say, 'Well this guy was a Nazi. He tortured Jews.' No, he was brought up to torture Jews.Oct 8 2012: Thanks John. I would respond to your comment by asking you this: what is the merit of punishment? It seems like a stupid question, and maybe it is, but think about it. The potential punishment obviously had no affect as a deterrent in your scenario. This is a man who, as you have stated, will not re-offend. So while I'm not saying I necessarily think there should be no punishment, I'm just posing the question. I mean, you mention that the punishment should serve as compensation, but who's really being compensated by the perpetrator spending time in prison. If you were to tell the family of the victim that the man who killed there relative no longer existed and in his place was a productive member of society, don't you think that would give them even more peace of mind than being told the killer is in jail? Also, I think phrasing the question as "are you saying he should not receive any punishment at all" is a bit misleading, as that implies the other side is arguing that there should be no response to the crime, when in fact the argument is for rehabilitation oriented sentencing. Finally, and this is only a technical point unrelated to the validity of your argument, vandals don't actually have to pay you for the damage they've caused just because they've been convicted of the crime. In fact, you would either have to file a claim with your local victim compensation office or sue the vandal civilly in court. In either case, your not likely to recover any money, because the victims compensation office is going to be much to busy with more serious crimes to help you, and if you were to beat the perpetrator in civil court-which if he had already been convicted in criminal is almost a foregone conclusion-he would then likely file for bankruptcy, because statistically he would likely be dirt poor and then, depending on the terms of the bankruptcy, you'd likely just have to absorb the debt.Oct 10 2012: Mk, I suggest greed and competitiveness are fairly natural.
We have a mix of nature and nurture.
E.g. We have sex drives. For some this leads to rape or pedophilia.
Part of the difficulty in this discussion is you almost need to look case by case.
Agree the environment is important. But there is a genetic component too. Some people are psychopaths. Some people in the same situation make different choices.
But agree part of it it luck.
John Dunbar
Oct 8 2012: Obey, theres no evidence that punishment works as a deterrent. Criminal behavior almost always finds its roots in impulse control problems. This can be due to various reasons, but I can tell you thinking your behavior through before you do it is a rarity in the criminal population, this, of course, is why people get caught for crimes so easily. This is also why so many criminals in the united states are locked up for drug crimes or crimes related to drug and alcohol abuse. I can tell you that most addicts really don't want to commit crimes they just have to in order to get high. The power of that pleasure will always usurp punishment deterrents. What we really need is treatment for those who are locked up. In my opinion prisons should be solely focused on warehousing irredeemable convicts and rehabilitating the others with cognitive behavioral therapy focusing on impulse control. Theres a very interesting study that was done called the Stanford Marshmallow Experiment, it pertains directly to this issue. Its an interesting quick read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment
- +1
chen xin
Oct 8 2012: your experiment is interest . that is goodOct 8 2012: Punishment is also a way of paying for the damage you caused. Not repeating previous crimes doesn't make the damage you already did magically go away.Oct 10 2012: Hi Brian.
- 0
I agree with the power of recency and impulse issues.
But suggest fear of punishment works for some people with some crimes. I don't cheat on my tax because I don't want to get caught. I even resisted hitting someone because I don't want an assault charge amongst other things.
This might be the minority.
But I suggest there would be more crime if there were no punishments.
I think it should be part of the mix, but probably not the central one.
There are also studies that indicate it is important for there be a cost for people overstepping the mark otherwise they will take unfair advantage.
But agree there is a range of people and situations.Oct 11 2012: But the other thing is that if you lock away someone for like 40 years and then you release him because he's been rehab'd, the drastic shock in change of environments is too great. I'm totally pulling this from Shawshank Redemption, but the movie brings up a really tragic point.
I mean, 40 years from now is such a different world than today. A lot of people hate change, and that much change is almost inhuman to deal with. It can induce a lot of loneliness too because you're living in a world where you may feel like you just don't belong anymore.Oct 8 2012: Rehabilitation, positive reinforcement works every time
David Steele
Oct 8 2012: Every time? Just to play devil's advocate, do you really think Charles Manson can be rehabilitated? If we captured Osama Bin Laden alive, do you think he could have been rehabilitated?
- +1
Oct 8 2012: Good day David,
First I am always a fan of devils advocate, so devils away. But yes if done properly and from day 1 of birth you can achieve better results with positive reinforcement. The problem with our current system is until we change everything that has to do with negative reinforcement system. A positive reinforcement system will not work efficiently. Given enough time and the right positive reinforcement, I think that even someone like Charles Manson would be rehabilitated. The problem is that most people think people should be punished for their actions. For me even as a young child this never made sense, I never understood how yelling at me or punishing me for something I did after I did it actually accomplished anything other then more frustration from all parties involved. It almost makes sense to yell at someone before they do it, that might actually stop the x thing from happening in the first place. Now unfortunately am one of those people if you tell me not to do something I almost always go do that thing. So that doesn't work either. However what does work is showing that through positive reinforcement even for bad behavior the person will change in the way that is best fit. Also everyone has a little bad in us and its fun to be bad. Its about balance not control. In a negative reinforcement system its about control and authority, not about actually making the person a better person to enter into society.
Here is an example of what Norway is doing.
Also when one tries to "debate" syntax one will always argue in circles
Oct 8 2012: Even where rehabilitation is difficult, positive reenforce, and an appeal to one's better nature is always the most compassionate response society can offer.Oct 8 2012: Also as far as Bin Laden is concerned every side has a hero and a terrorist. One perspective's hero is another's perceptive a terrorist.
Ken brown
Oct 8 2012: Why not get the lifers to become lecturers with benefits of access to the net while educating the ones that show promise,set the lecturers aside in their own wing,the access will be only to the local university for material and the faculty,rather than working with them on a limited daily basis,educate them to educate each other.Oct 7 2012: As taught in law enforcement academies ... offenders are sent to prison as punishment not for punishment. As Pat stated they are warehoused and attempts at rehibilitation are superficial at best. I have worked both on the streets and inside and can tell you that this is true.
- +1
In almost every case the final answer is money. To house a inmate is about $65K for hardened and about $40K for minimal. Schools to educate are expensive and without a profit margin are not interested.
The internal poltics of a prision are very simple .... Prison rules: Do as you are told or you will be punished ... Gang rules in prision: Do as you are told or we will kill you, your dog, and your family.
As well meaning as they may be, those who protest the prisons treatments and lack of rehibilitation efforts are not well informed. In order for this to work I see one method. Designer prisons. Put murders and those doing life sentences in one area; long term inmates in another; and keeping seperate first timers and short time inmates and these are the ones that MAYBE can be given educational and job training. These are the ones that we should invest on and provide opportunities for success and NOT returning to prison. By isolating them from the hardened prisoners they are not exposed to the prison mentality and gang influence would be minimal and maybe even controlable.
At the higher level custodies there is little chance for rehab .... the focus is on protecting them from each other. The sad fact is that the gangs are really in charge. We had six officers scheduled and often less in physical presence to manage 2000 inmates. You do the math.
First develop a plan for rehab .... then find funding .... then devise a means that would not endanger the public .... the checklist goes on.
I see you are a student. Take a tour of the local prison and rethink your question.
Oct 8 2012: Thanks Bob, I take particular interest in your response because of your apparent expertise. I have a parent that works in prisons (he's an attorney for the state that defends prison employees when they're sued by prisoners) which is actually what gave me the idea for this debate, and while I don't mean for this to sound like I'm claiming equal knowledge, I think I can at least respond intelligently. I would ask you this: I know that I can go on Google and find an instance of virtually anything happening, so that alone would not mean much. However there many cases of high level offenders becoming productive members of society. How do you respond to that when you seem to claim high level offenders are nearly impossible to rehabilitate. Also, if John Doe is an alcoholic, and commits a violent act while intoxicated (reminding anyone who's reading this that intoxication is not a defense in any of the U.S. states) does that really mean he's unable to be rehabilitated? Wouldn't a drug/alcohol treatment program and some classes for when he's out be just what he needs? And wouldn't this save taxpayers a lot of money down the road if this helps ensure he doesn't re-offend? A trial is much more expensive than scheduling an A.A. representative to come in and have some group therapy (please set aside the stigma). Finally, taking the state of affairs you describe above, with gangs ruling the prisons, and those who try to help the prisoners being only naive idealists, do you think there should be improvement? I mean, you mention separating the different level offenders, but aside from that do you think we should accept that as the best option available to us, or do you think there's room for some more improvement? If so, I would of course have to follow up with where? Forgive me if this sounds like a test problem, as you mentioned, I am a student.
Oct 8 2012: I do think that with most prisoners their main problem is that they have lost their self respect. For reason delineated below.
I have hired a few of these guys as workers in the past, the ones whose accommodations had signs on the wall that stated "we not fire warning shots". There is a certain element of society that I don't care what you do they are not going to be rehabilitated as they are complete sociopaths, they have zero empathy for the most shocking offenses. You have to talk with these guys to get the idea.
Oct 8 2012: I'm curious: have you met these guys? I'm not trying to "get you" or anything, as I said, just curious.Oct 8 2012: Its harder these days to define what is a sociopath or psychopath, most capitalist have these same traits
http://www.ted.com/talks/jon_ronson_strange_answers_to_the_psychopath_test.htmlOct 8 2012: They worked for me.
Oct 8 2012: Sorry, thought it was a hypothetical.Oct 8 2012: There is nothing hypothetical about what I'm saying. You can go on about nurture vs nature or free will which to me is hypothetical and insidious. The reason this meme is insidious is that it convinces the individual that the fault lies with something or someone else. The problem with this is that the individual blames, insert favorite straw man here, which automatically make the blamer the victim. So people become professional victims. We all know from empirical evidence that the only thing that helps the individual is when he takes responsibility for himself. Forget all the hypothetical and go with what works.
I think the correct thinking is to look at what works, as per the scientific method is the truth. What doesn't work is trying to rehabilitate psychopaths. What does is to allow the ones that can to take responsibility for themselves.Oct 8 2012: Casey
No it is easy just pitch the book the psych use to determine if someone is mentally ill. The book is a canard in the first place as it's only real purpose is to have an excuse to prescribe drugs which is where the real money is.
Wade Crum
Oct 6 2012: "We are all just prisoners here...of our own device" Eagles.
- +1
Prison is a reaction. Some of it is due to poor judicial systems. Some of it is due to lack of condusive enviornment. Some of it is due do poor or no education. Some of it is due to a sense of hopelessness.
I'd prefer to fight the battle way further upstream. Fix the precursors to criminal activity.
Prison helps no one....we all pay a price, the more prisoners ....the higher the cost to humanity.
pat gilbert
Oct 6 2012: The reality is that it is just a warehouse. What it should be is a way for an individual to make restitution to society.
- +1
Which most certainly would include working your ass off (as the rest of us do, unless you work for the government) to make up for the damage YOU did. In other words repeat after me I'm responsible, I'm responsible, I'm responsible, I'm responsible, I'm responsible, I'm responsible, I'm responsible, I'm responsible...
Oct 6 2012: You're implying that all criminals have free will.
"Free will may exist (it may simply be beyond our current science), but one thing seems clear: if free will does exist, it has little room in which to operate. It can at best be a small factor riding on top of vast neural networks shaped by genes and environment. In fact, free will may end up being so small that we eventually think about bad decision-making in the same way we think about any physical process, such as diabetes or lung disease."
David Eagleman
The assumption that criminals owe society is predicated on the notion that they had the opportunity and access to the things our society claims they provide. This is not the case.
Oct 6 2012: Yes it is a fact that they have free will.
I believe that humans are an aggregate that include a spiritual aspect which aligns with natural law. Dr Eagleman's statement indicates a dystopian eugenic reality.
I will agree to disagree. Especially with the equality trope that is inferred.
Oct 6 2012: Reply to Eagleman. Or better yet, read the article first.Oct 6 2012: Pat what are you talking about? It is a fact? where do your thoughts come from? What is the Autonomic nervous system? The existence of free will, or for that matter non existence, is hardly a fact. Equality trope? Whats your take on equality? I need to hear this.
" Though we feel that we can choose what we do, our understanding of the molecular basis of biology shows that biological processes are governed by the laws of physics and chemistry and therefore are as determined as the orbits of the planets. Recent experiments in neuroscience support the view that it is our physical brain, following the known laws of science, that determines our actions, and not some agency that exists outside those laws. For example, a study of patients undergoing awake brain surgery found that by electrically stimulating the appropriate regions of the brain, one could create in the patient the desire to move the hand, arm, or foot, or to move the lips and talk. It is hard to imagine how free will can operate if our behavior is determined by physical law, so it seems that we are no more than biological machines and that free will is just an illusion."-Stephen HawkingOct 30 2012: Those that argue in favor of free will do so as part of a belief system, they provide no research on the subject.
This is a research reference which provides some insight into why our society clings to the notion.
"It all seems quite rational, so why is our lack of free will so difficult to accept for many people? Cashmore explains that there are several compelling reasons that people have for believing in free will, not the least of which is that we have a constant awareness of making decisions that seem to be driven by our own volition. In addition, free will is a very useful concept when it comes to the justice system; we take responsibility for our criminal actions and accordingly, are eligible for personal punishment, which is deemed to be necessary for protecting society."
Read more at: http://phys.org/news186830615.html#jCpOct 6 2012: No thanks
Oct 6 2012: Ignorance is bliss!Oct 6 2012: Free will doesn't exist. But as a metaphor it does, and in a court of law, it definitely should exist.
If you're raising kids, same thing, the whole educationnal idea rests on the helpfull illusion that free will exists.
Oct 6 2012: That is ass backwards.Oct 6 2012: Free will exists you just don't see it,it moves too fast to comprehend it,in other words it has become reality before you realize it's gone,the next decision is being processed due to the prediction data that you have accumulated,we all make a choice at any given moment.Oct 6 2012: Thedore
I get the idea I just don't agree.
Oct 6 2012: I see this thread as being representative of the large problem in society where there is an unwillingness to move beyond old ideas.
TED is a place that provides new information and it must be approached with an open mind. When we are closed off to new ways of looking at problem we become married to the problem instead of dating the solutions.
Problems are complex, often there is not one answer. What we know is this, there is: something wrong with our criminal justice system and the policies that are slow to change it.
Our prison populations have skyrocketed over the last 20 years, to around 2.25 million prisoners.
A number on TEDTalks have already shed light on the issue: see those listed above.
Those that refuse to educate themselves about this problem, and instead cling to irrational opinions are the same people complain about the costs associated with housing and feeding this segment of the population.
The TEDTalk by Elizabeth Pisani addresses some related public policies regarding drug use and HIV, pointing out that we are very irrational in our public policy making.
Margaret Thatcher created the world's first national needle exchange program and other countries followed suit. and in all of those countries, you will see, not more than four percent ever became infected with HIV. Thacher did it because she ran a country that had a national health service. So, if she didn't invest in effective prevention, she was going to have pick up the costs of treatment later on, and obviously those are much higher. So she was making a politically rational decision.
We in the US did not follow Thacher's thinking. And from some of the replies here, this is still a battle that needs to be fought. Ignorance is a part of every problem.
Short retorts the defend an unwillingness to become informed are arrogant and self serving and benefit no one, and least of all the commenter.Oct 6 2012: Brian
That quote sounds like a description of an automaton. I'm sure you guys have faith in your Darwinian religion I just don't see it that way. I would say that what Hawking says is the illusion and free will or us is the reality. You disagree I get it, that is fine with me.
Oct 6 2012: Faith in Darwinian religion, LOLOct 6 2012: Whether free will exists or not is immaterial to this discussion because not having free will simply means being predestined to react to certain stimuli in a certain way, most likely you'll react differently to different justice systems so the nature of the system matters for the outcome, even in a world without free will, also, prison serves as much to protect the general population from the offender as it does to punish/rehabilitate the offender.Oct 6 2012: Theodore
It may surprise you that I'm not as ignorant on this as you assume.
The answer that is worth finding out about is the one that produces results. Before looking at new "ideas", the better thing to do is to find out about what is extant. I do not buy the premise that problems are complex, in fact I would say by describing a problem as complex indicates a fundamental lack of understanding coming from fundamental glibness on the subject. E.G. the reason that the U.S. has a high rate of incarceration is that many more drugs are illegal with higher penalties in the U.S. . Additionally the prison unions want this to be the case as then they have job security.
The linked videos I have seen before are the the Mr Dow talk and the Mr Horowitz talk of the 2 you espouse to the Mr Dow talk, although I get it and it is quite cogent but to genuinely fix the problem is more along the lines Mr Horowitz talk.
You see when you get away from the specious meme of not having free will you can make some real progress. This requires a good command of logic, which is something I suggest you look into.
When you treat the individual as though he has free will and is responsible .you can start fixing some things. If on the other hand he is given the idea that everything is predetermined there is not point in trying, that is a huge disservice to the prisoner.
The basic problem with prisoners is that they have lost self respect. How come? They did something they didn't agree with, they compromised their integrity, their viewpoint. If you watch the Horowitz talk from 30 seconds to 50 seconds Tony did something he did not agree with that was not true to his perspective. And just like that his life is over. Sorry to be so simple but this Really is the way it is.
The first thing to know about a subject is know that you don't know about a subject. How do you know if you know, glad you asked Theodore, it is does what you are saying work or not.
Oct 6 2012: My use of the term "ignorant" is to imply ignoring that which might be considered.
Regarding your argument here, I can only say that I am referencing the work and research of intelligent people that have addressed this issue here at TED. which appears logical enough I find for many others here in the conversation to follow.
What are your sources, outside of your opinion?
Allow me to ask:
1) Are there any less drugs in white neighborhoods? No, but blacks are more likely to be arrested.
"The majority of young black men in major American cities are locked behind bars or have been labeled felons for life. Although Jim Crow laws have been wiped off the books, an astounding percentage of the African American community remains trapped in a subordinate status."
2) Are there problems with the criminal justice system aside from the ones you have suggested? Is the system broken?
Yes, and the problems are many!
(You will note the reviewer is Justice John Paul Stevens)
"The rule of law has vanished in America's criminal justice system. Prosecutors now decide whom to punish and how severely. Almost no one accused of a crime will ever face a jury. Inconsistent policing, rampant plea bargaining, overcrowded courtrooms, and ever more draconian sentencing have produced a gigantic prison population, with black citizens the primary defendants and victims of crime. In this passionately argued book, the leading criminal law scholar of his generation looks to history for the roots of these problems—and for their solutions." (Note the words "problemS and solutionS")
Shall I go on, I can? This is a topic I have researched. My fear is that you will choice to ignore all information accept that which agrees with you.
At a point a neural network does not learn it only response to error and requires back propagation.Oct 7 2012: I have demonstrated I'm not ignoring anything. Except I don't have the time or interest to study everything you throw out like back propagation. I do a triage on what I want to study what you are saying is not of much value to me because I cannot use it and therefore do not consider it to be important. If you wanted me to understand you would not have used the word in the first place or at least explained it. What does appear to be your motivation is something else, some sort of posturing?
You make some good points in the post especially regarding plea bargains which is egregiously abused. But those points are not apt to the OP's point.
My reference is really simple and one that you mention listen to the video by Horowitz between 30 and 50 seconds into the talk when Tony did something that he didn't agree with and it changed his life forever. That is IMPORTANT, that is philosophy and the very substance of ethics and logic and reason.
Spare me the oblique comments and just speak to that point. Or will your "neural network allow you to do that without going into back propagation?
Oct 7 2012: Regarding Tony:
"When Tony was 16 years old, one day, one moment, "It was mom's gun. Just flash it, scare the guy. He's a punk. He took some money; we'll take his money. That'll teach him. Then last minute, I'm thinking, 'Can't do this. This is wrong.' My buddy says, 'C'mon, let's do this.' I say, 'Let's do this.'" And those three words, Tony's going to remember, because the next thing he knows, he hears the pop."
It is problematic to imagine yourself in the shoes of someone breaking the law and conclude, "Well, I wouldn't have done that"—because if you weren't exposed to circumstances like in utero cocaine, lead poisoning, and physical abuse, and that he may have experience, then you and he are not directly comparable. You cannot walk a mile in his shoes.
"Tony interrupts me. "What are you going to teach me about right and wrong? I know what is wrong. I have done wrong. I am told every day, by every face I see, every wall I face, that I am wrong. If I ever get out of here, there will always be a mark by my name. I'm a convict; I am branded 'wrong.' What are you going to tell me about right and wrong?"
Tony has a small margin to know what he is to do. He lacks the skills, the tools. Tony is on the edge, he is poor, he wants to say no, but peer influence tips the scales. Free will is open the window.
It is obvious that punish Tony leaves him scared. Tony will never be judged by his peers, he will plea bagain and do hard time.
Horowitz's point is that there is a human being in Tony that is worth saving, and able to learn. Tony's problem is that until he is place in jail, he has no opportunity to get help, or to have a mentor like Horowitz to learn from.Oct 7 2012: NO, you do not have to walk a mile in Toni's shoes. He did something he did not agree with that he knew in his gut he should not do.
In my experience situations that ALWAYS got me into trouble was when I did something I did not agree with. This is often called I had gut feeling I should not do this. You inevitably get mad about the situaltion but the reality is that you are mad at yourself because you were not true to yourself. This is the very essence of ethics and not a small point.
Oct 7 2012: Well, you negate the affects of the environment and focus solely on the cognitive to determine all behavior. Social psychology dictates a great deal as well. One only needs to look at the torture and abuse at Abu Graib Prison, and these were highly trained individuals. This is similar to the famous Prisoner Experiments done at Sanford University by Philip Zimbardo, who followed on the heels of the research of Stanley Millgram.
The actions of others plays to a different part of the brain and places us in conflict. This is why contraband is smuggled into prisons by prison guides. Again, trained guards that should know better also,but are placed in situation that create conflict with their reasoning. Congressmen, who get caught in a scandal. Did they know better, YES, So why do they act as they do?
It is not all that simple, it is a complex problem.
Take addiction which is a similar behavior in many ways. Where there is a long term rewards in place individuals repeated avoid addiction which is a short term reward. Often positive short term rewards most also be linked to long term rewards to insure successful outcomes.
There is actually very little difference in the brain, between behaviors like stealing or over eating.Oct 7 2012: Yes I do negate the effects of the environment. You are saying the individual is a product of his environment, I'm saying that the environment is a product of the individual.
Is that the one where the individual is asked to push a button to create an electrical shock? and to measure their level of empathy?
I would say that the individual has acquiesced to an outside effort. Do you see what I'm saying regarding this as the point of a transgression to oneself?
It is that simple.
What I have said previously is the core of addiction.
The additional factor is that the person gets mentally stuck in a incident of pleasure. My anecdotal experience with this was cigarette smoking. I read a book titled "Quit Smoking the Easy way" The author indicated how the core of the problem is that the individual is addicted to nicotine which most people would say DUAH. But to a smoker that is quite a revelation especially me. What the author said was that you would trick your self by saying it was that you needed this to enjoy social situations, or drinking alcohol, or just enjoyed exhaling smoke, etc. What all this boils down too was not so much a meme or habit but a mental image that the individual gets stuck in and has lost control of. The truth of this is that I have not had a cigarette for 8 months after 30+ years of smoking a pack and a half a day.
How much pain the individual is in is also going to effect how desirable the drug is, a gun shot victim would have a very hard time not taking a pain killer. But at some point when the pain is not overwhelming the individual will have a choice regarding this and will either become an addict or be true to himself.
Oct 7 2012: What is your explanation of the behavior of soldiers at Abu Graib?
The Millgram experiment is the one with the shocks being administered. The Prison experiment is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_huJo9FOkIOct 7 2012: With Zimbardo or Abu Graib it is the same situation the individual acquiesced to the herd mentality and degraded himself, he committed a transgression against himself, which is always the exact moment of the beginning of his trouble. This a point of integrity that requires vigilance. When Bob Winner talks about the sheeple he is talking about people who have acquiesced their freedom to an authority. They have violated their own integrity.
One more example of how this works. I was contracted to do a job which we completed. The customer was very happy, as was the contractor and architect. The contractor that we did the work for wanted us to do some additional work that I felt was going to be problematic. I refused to do the additional work on 4 separate occasions on the 5th occasion the contractor was begging me to do the work so I acquiesced and agreed to do the work. The job was a nightmare and ended up in 5 year law suit. The beginning of the trouble was when I committed the transgression against myself I was not true to my viewpoint. I was livid with the contractor who had completely lied about the whole situation to save his own skin. The only thing that gave many any peace was to finally admit that I did it to myself, which is always the case with these situations.
If nothing else, whether you agree or not, using my perspective will get results in any ethics matter as I'm sure it did with Horowitz that is it works and produces results. Having someone say they are a victim and a product of the environment just gets victims who blame. If you just say I'm responsible it empowers you to do something about the situation it frees you of blame it allows you to create your own world. It allows you to create your own universe which is not created by anyone other than you.
Oct 7 2012: This would follow a certain reasoning. "I am sinner, save my soul" I see.
What truly confuses me, but severs to make my point, how easily you have dismissed a torrent of information that your scheme is all to willing to explain away. Not in one area have you given to new thinking. I'm not sure whether to applaud you or cry. Might it be that the same force that is at work in your thinking is the same one that forced the criminal not to admit responsibility?
Know this, there are people smart than you and I writing books on this subject.
There is always more to learn.
The real is that there are not more like Horowitz working with this population, but then and if we get to them at an earlier age....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUdsTizSxSIOct 7 2012: It is the exact opposite of "I am sinner, save my soul". And neither have you considered one thing that I said... another case of the pot calling the pan black, ugh
You know I don't think smart has much to do with it, what does have to do with it is the ability to communicate and consider.
Oct 7 2012: You have hardly provided a "torrent of information," in terms of reference have you, just opinion.
You are officially free to endlessly debate someone else. I am rest my caseOct 7 2012: Sure I did. I'm done with this thread, there is no point to this
Oct 7 2012: Sorry I must have missed them ALL the links you posted. Please posted them here again.Oct 8 2012: I was communicating a self evident concept with examples. You want to look at endless links by "experts" of which I watched most and responded to most.
I'm talking about a self evident truth I do not have or want someone to tell me what to think about it. It's roots are in an understanding of ethics that I'm sure you can goggle but you refused to acknowledge that this is what Horowitz is talking about.
You like most Tedsters are at the complete opposite end of the spectrum from me. In a nut shell you are saying the individual is a product of his environment, I'm saying that the environment is a product of the individual.
Have a nice day
Oct 8 2012: Is there any chance in the universe, just the chance, that you might be wrong, that you might have something left to learn?
I really have been patient with you, it is called "Nature vs Nuture."
Examine twin studies.
"What could be so powerful that it trumps the combined effects of nature and nurture?"
John Dunbar
Oct 8 2012: Pat, admitting responsibility is essentially a tool of empowerment. It is something that can help people who are wishing to change their behavior. However it has no bearing on the existence or non existence of free will or the culpability or non culpability of the person in question. A person is both a product of their environment and the environment is a product of them. By dismissing the aspect of nurture your throwing behavioral psychology to the wind. I might add your also dismissing the unconscious mind, your behavior is a product of many things among them are competing impulses, you cant take credit for being able to suppress certain impulses more than you can take credit for the functioning of your nervous system.Oct 8 2012: "Is there any chance in the universe, just the chance, that you might be wrong, that you might have something left to learn? " " I really have been patient with you"
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Right back at youOct 31 2012: I looked at this on the is free will an illusion as well.
I have thought about this as much as I have time for.
For me the bottom line is that the free will concept is more workable in that if nothing else the people are happier under this illusion than the illusion it is just a matter of how the synapses fire.
Oct 31 2012: Francis Crick said, 'Dream as we may, reality knocks relentlessly at the door.'Oct 31 2012: And so it goes, is reality our dream or is the dream a result of our reality?
David Steele
Oct 6 2012: I'll start this off and see if anyone takes an interest: I think we should focus our system on rehabilitation. I think that both philosophies can coexist because the only way you'll get benefits is if you are truly rehabilitated-at least ideally-so I believe a deterrent would remain. Criminals would know they'll go to jail for their crimes. But they may also receive drug treatment and similar programs. Realistically, prison would still be a very bad place to end up; it wouldn't be fun. Criminals are not going to think they should go commit a crime to get all the great benefits of prison. I also think that feelings like 'this criminal needs to be punished,' those sort of ideas that are rooted more in passion than logic are the exact reason we don't let the victims decide the criminal's fate. In the twenty first century I think that we should place higher value on creating a productive citizen than on punishment for our own emotional appeasement.Nov 5 2012: Well, for my first TED debate, I think this went pretty well. Many lessons learned, on both the question posed and TED debates. Thanks.Nov 1 2012: Very old argument - mad, bad and dangerous to know. Result is successful career in politics or business or crime. White collar crime investigated by social sciences particularly sociology back in 1970s and 1980s. Always rehabilitation but not rehab as in 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest', rehab after a thorough analysis of the unique person and their circumstances. Many fine minds in prisons just needing an alternative vocabulary and new experiences. Always advocate for market gardens in prisons, an outdoor space to learn to grow food and crops. Women nearly always in prison for wanting to support and protect others. Men often in prison for painful reasons too. Did you know 'death by police' just another form of suicide. Find it so hard not to use harsh words when trying to explain difficult and complex situations in limited word count. Always advocate for holistic approach. Problem tends to be rehab resource intensive. The punishment is the removal from 'normal life'. The punishment is the other inmates. The punishment is the institutionalisation. Don't want a revolving door criminal want opportunities to be different next time for them (not just a better thief or whatever BTW).Nov 1 2012: Self control vs Temptation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPQhj6ktYSo&feature=relmfu
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How can we use this information to correct criminal thinking instead of punish it.Oct 31 2012: So how do you feel this should affect the goal of our criminal justice system? Rehabilitation or punishment?
"Those that argue in favor of free will do so as part of a belief system, they provide no research on the subject. "
I thought that while I want this debate to stay focused on how our criminal justice system should be oriented, I might briefly address this by offering some logic based arguments that might be used in support of fee will.
First of all, the question of the possible existence of free will is a philosophical question. As such, I'm not sure it's fair to say there is no research supporting a side. Second, free will is a very abstract concept, and while you may read articles such as the one in the Atlantic and feel they disprove the existence of free will, hypothetically I could read the same article and arrive at a different conclusion.
"The power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion." This definition is provided by Wikipedia (the well known arbiter of philosophical truths). The article claims that free will cannot exist because ultimately our brain chemistry is what determines our choices, and what it chooses is predictable. I might look at this and say that since my brain is part of me, my decision is not being controlled by necessity or fate, and as such I have free will. This is just one of many possible examples intended to show that there is virtually always an argument for any idea (sometimes even a good one), so I'm not sure the belief in free will should be dismissed as simply part of a "belief system." It's also worth noting that every belief, even the belief that we have no free will is based on a belief system. But I don't want to belabor a point that may have just been poor phrasing.
Finally, I don't want to let any of this distract from the overall topic, so make sure if anyone comments on this topic you do it in the scope of criminal justice and the debate prompt.Oct 30 2012: "A brain region that curbs our natural self interest has been identified. The studies could explain how we control fairness in our society, researchers say.
Humans are the only animals to act spitefully or to mete out "justice", dishing out punishment to people seen to be behaving unfairly - even if it is not in the punisher's own best interests. This tendency has been hard to explain in evolutionary terms, because it has no obvious reproductive advantage and punishing unfairness can actually lead to the punisher being harmed."
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn10239-sense-of-justice-discovered-in-the-brain.htmlOct 30 2012: Those that argue in favor of free will do so as part of a belief system, they provide no research on the subject.
This is a research reference which provides some insight into why our society clings to the notion.
"It all seems quite rational, so why is our lack of free will so difficult to accept for many people? Cashmore explains that there are several compelling reasons that people have for believing in free will, not the least of which is that we have a constant awareness of making decisions that seem to be driven by our own volition. In addition, free will is a very useful concept when it comes to the justice system; we take responsibility for our criminal actions and accordingly, are eligible for personal punishment, which is deemed to be necessary for protecting society."
Read more at: http://phys.org/news186830615.html#jCp


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"Navigate: Get THERE through Team Advising" is the title of our Quality Enhancement Plan (QEP) that is being developed during this academic year.
Come learn more about this preliminary five year action plan. We will share the preliminary details and get your feedback during these Faculty/Staff focus groups. They will be held on the following dates and times:
• Monday, February 18, 2013, in the Natural Science Center from 12-1 pm
• Monday, February 18, 2013, in the Natural Science Center from 2-3 pm
We will also hold Student Focus Groups next week. Thanks for stopping by the NSC to learn more about the preliminary plan and to share your thoughts.


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does the 13" fit the retina macbook pro?
I have a 13" macbook pro retina and would like the "hammered" hard case from "incase" does it fit?
- Asked by Ami B from Salisbury
Incase Hammered Hardshell Case
Product No Longer Available
1 Answer from the Community
While trying to find a case for my non-Retina 13" Pro, I discovered that cases for the Retina display are much smaller. Make sure the case is specifically for the Retina display before you buy it.
- Answered by Erica P from Chickamauga


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CALLAWAY — Bay County commissioners have chosen an alignment for a proposed Gulf Coast Parkway that would run through the Callaway area.
It's a route officials say could spur development around Callaway and improve traffic flow throughout Bay County.
Commissioners agreed Tuesday to send a letter to Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) officials stating their preferred route for the parkway is one that runs primarily through Bay County.
It's just one more step in the process of building a four-lane, $518.9 million parkway that is proposed to extend through Bay and Gulf counties.
"The funding on this is coming much quicker than we'd originally anticipated," Ken Schnell, Bay County's director of public works, told commissioners Tuesday.
He said design work is underway for a segment of the parkway that would be built under any alignment scenario. It would stretch along Tram Road from Star Avenue to U.S. 98 in the Callaway area. Design work also has been advertised for a northbound loop that runs parallel to State 22, Schnell added.
Bryant Paulk, an urban liaison with FDOT, told commissioners their choice of routes is important in the process. The project commenced with a $25 million federal earmark, which helped fund a project development and environment study process that is coming to an end.
"While we are moving forward quickly on a couple of segments, overall, this corridor is not funded," Paulk said.
He told commissioners they will decide on the priority of the funding in the future as they sit as members of the Transportation Planning Organization.
Callaway Mayor Thomas Abbott said he is pleased commissioners chose Alignment 17, a corridor the city already has endorsed. Callaway has run water and sewer lines out to the largely rural Allanton area, and that, combined with the new parkway, would open up the area for development, he said.
"We think that road infrastructure brings growth, and combined with water and sewer lines we put out there, we think the east side there is poised for growth," he said.
5 routes
Through consultation with federal and state agencies, as well as input from the public, five potential alignments for the parkway have been identified.
The alignment Bay County commissioners selected is different than two recommended by Gulf County officials. Bay County's choice is a 30-mile alignment that would include existing roads and new segments, starting at U.S. 98 in Gulf County and heading north, running east of Tyndall Air Force Base and into the Callaway area. It would continue north and hook into U.S. 231 via Nehi Road.
It's a different route than Alignments 14 and 15, endorsed by the Gulf County Commission, which are farther east and include more roadway in Gulf County.
A total of $13.3 million has been budgeted to build the parkway segment along Tram Road in the Callaway area, said FDOT spokesman Ian Satter. He said construction on that segment is slated to start in 2016.
"There is nothing else (funding construction) in the five-year work program," Satter said.
Officials say the proposed new roadway, whatever its final route, ultimately will connect U.S. 98 in Gulf County with U.S. 231 in Bay County.
"The existing corridor is becoming increasingly congested and the roadway is insufficient for freight movement via trucks," the project's website, GulfCoastParkway.com, states. "The proposed new roadway would provide additional traffic capacity, improve access to state roads, and provide an improved freight corridor for the region. The new route will provide for more direct access to U.S. 231 and in turn provide improved access to Interstate 10, as well as provide greater accessibility to the coastal communities in Gulf County."
Currently, the two-lane U.S. 98 crosses through Tyndall Air Force Base.
"The proposed new facility will bypass the Air Force base, which will allow for heightened security on the base and provide an alternate route if passage through the base is temporarily blocked or restricted," the website states. "Additionally, the new route will provide an alternative hurricane evacuation route for area residents."
After conducting an environmental study, the FDOT also chose Alignment 17 for the parkway, Schnell told Bay County commissioners on Tuesday.
"We see that we provide north-south (connections) just like other alternatives do, but also provide east-west connectivity," he said.
Related story: Gulf Coast Parkway in the works
Related story: Gulf County pushes parkway case
Related story: Gulf County says parkway hijacked
Related story: State says Callaway route is top pick


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Ken™ Watch
Release Date: 10/13/2011
Product Code: D1771
With a cool watch like this, you Ken-do anything and always be on time! Features retro styling, Ken® doll's signature plaid pattern, blue bezel and snappy orange band made of flexible gel material. Watch case features a vintage-inspired 1960s classic Ken doll case.
Dimensions: 38mm case / 28mm Dial


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can they be used for I phone 4 S and Ipod
I have a apple 4S i phone and ipod can the headphones be used for both?
- Asked by Katherine B from Haines
Puma Pro Performance Sport Headphones + Mic
Product No Longer Available
1 Answer from the Community
Best Answer:
The compatibility on the product says they're compatible with iPhone 4S and the iPod touch
4th generation. I'd also assume they're compatible with the latest iPhone 5 and iPod versions as the headphone jack hasn't changed.
- Answered by Richard H


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Bazaar March covergirl Sarah Jessica Parker talks recessionista fashion
Sarah Jessica Parker graces the cover of the upcoming March fashion issue of Harper's Bazaar in one of my favorite new trends – zippers.
Asked how alterego Carrie Bradshaw would handle today's recessionary times, Parker said "She would probably end up in a hospital. Perhaps she would go back to her '80s stuff and start bringing it out again."
We wonder if it's as good as Parker's own '80s stuff. "Girls Just Want to Have Fun" anyone?
The March issue of Harper's Bazaar hits newstands February 17. See more here.


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Top Searches:
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July 22, 2013
Links: Australian Glass and the Pacific Northwest at Museum of Glass
Wsu Master Gardeners of Pierce County at Master Gardener of Pierce County
The Shape of Things by Neil Labute at Dukesbay Theater
All events for today »
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Action/Adventure, Drama, Suspense/Thriller
A massive unmanned locomotive, nicknamed "The Beast" and loaded with toxic cargo, roars through the countryside, vaporizing anything put in front of it. A veteran engineer and a young conductor, aboard another train in the runaway's path, devise an incredible plan to try and stop it -- and prevent certain disaster in a heavily populated area.
Rated PG-13 for sequences of action and peril, and some language.
Visit the official site
Cast: Denzel Washington, Chris Pine
Produced by:
Directed by: Tony Scott
Written by: Mark Bomback
Running time: 1hr 38min
Opens: Nov 12, 2010 Nationwide


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What is Grace?
Book by Sean Michael Lucas
The doctrine of grace is as the heart of the Reformed faith. It is at the center of our best hymns, our truest expositions of Scripture, and our theological systems. Yet, even though it is such an important word, many … Learn More
It Is Well: Expositions on Substitutionary Atonement
Book by Various Authors
The idea of Christ's substitutionary atonement for sinners is central in both the Old and New Testaments—from the Passover to the prophets to the words of Jesus and the apostles. In It Is Well, pastors Mark Dever and Michael Lawrence … Learn MorePaperback $18.00 $14.40 Add to Cart
Scandalous: The Cross and Resurrection of Jesus
Book by D.A. Carson
How are Christians to approach the central gospel teachings concerning the death and resurrection of Jesus? The Bible firmly establishes the historicity of these events and doesn't leave their meanings ambiguous or open to interpretation. Even so, there is an … Learn MorePaperback $16.00 $12.80 Add to Cart
Why Does God Allow War?
Book by D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones
Does God care about the sin and suffering in the world today? Why doesn't he bring an end to war and violence? When our lives seem shattered by personal tragedy, is there any answer? Is there any place to which … Learn MorePaperback $13.00 $10.40 Add to Cart
TrueU: Is the Bible Reliable?
Teaching Series by Stephen Meyer
Is the Bible really historically accurate? Do you really believe that what you believe is really real? Everyone asks these questions, but can students confidently and reasonably defend biblical beliefs—and the Bible itself—when peers or university professors challenge their worldview? … Learn MoreDVD $40.00 $32.00 Add to Cart
CrossReference: Discovering Christ in the Old Testament
Teaching Series by David Murray
CrossReference aims to help Christians discover and enjoy Christ in the Old Testament. This first series of ten short teaching films centers on Christ's appearances in the Old Testament as the Angel of the Lord. The videos guide viewers through … Learn MoreDVD $15.00 $12.00 Add to Cart
What Did Jesus Do?: Understanding the Work of Christ
Teaching Series by R.C. Sproul
Twelve 23-Minute Messages. Over 4 Hours of Teaching. When Jesus approached John the Baptist to be baptized, John initially objected. But Jesus responded by saying that it was necessary "to fulfill all righteousness." (Matt. 3:15) Why was this act—and others … Learn MoreDVD $48.00 $43.20 Add to Cart
Also available in three other formats
Light & Heat: A Passion for the Holiness of God: 2011 National Conference
Conference Messages by Various Authors
Essential doctrines of the Christian faith are under attack, even from within the church, and it is important that we be well grounded in biblical truths so that we may have a deep affection for our holy, triune God. Celebrating the … Learn MoreDVD $75.00 $67.50 Add to Cart
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Pillars of Grace & Foundations of Grace Book Set
Book Set by Steven Lawson
From the lawgiver Moses to the apostle John, and from the early church fathers to modern defenders of the faith, there has marched onto the stage of human history a long line of godly men, a triumphant parade of spiritual … Learn MoreHardcover $56.00 $39.20 Add to Cart
What Is Baptism?
Book by R.C. Sproul
Baptism is taught in the Bible and has been practiced for centuries, but understanding of its meaning and respect for its importance is at a low ebb today. Confusion reigns over questions about its mode and its place in the … Learn More
Also available in one other format
What Is the Trinity?
Book by R.C. Sproul
The Trinity is truly a mystery. This doctrine teaches that the God of Christianity is one in His essence but three in His persons—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Though the word Trinity is not found in the … Learn More
Also available in two other formats
April 2011 Tabletalk
Tabletalk by Various
The April 2011 issue of Tabletalk looks at how a humiliated and exalted Messiah is revealed in the Old Testament, as well as how Jesus of Nazareth fulfilled those expectations. Contributors include R.C. Sproul along with T.D. Alexander, Elyse M. Fitzpatrick, … Learn MoreMagazine $3.00 Add to Cart
What is the Atonement?
Book by Richard Phillips
The atonement, and its significance to Christ's death on the cross, is a doctrine sadly fading from focus in our modern evangelical churches. Yet Richard Phillips asserts that it is a necessary truth for Christian salvation. As soon as we … Learn MorePaperback $5.00 $4.00 Add to Cart


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Why There Were No Booth Babes At Macworld [Macworld 2013]
SAN FRANCISCO, MACWORLD/iWORLD 2013 – After my article last year about Macworld booth babes, I expected to find lots of models again this year at the show. But to my surprise, there were none to be found.
The reason surprised me, but makes total sense.


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For Ian and many other children with congenital heart disease, in utero diagnosis can be a game changer.
When your baby needs the most advanced cardiac care, Children's National Heart Institute is the preeminent provider of fetal cardiac services in the Washington, DC area. The Fetal Heart Program, part of the Heart Institute's continuum of care, is dedicated to our patients who haven't been born yet.
Care begins in utero, which maximizes planning time and allows for early treatment of heart abnormalities — often within moments of delivery. Fetal echocardiography is most often performed to detect heart defects at 18-20 weeks gestation; however, in high risk pregnancies, serious heart defects can be identified as early as 12 weeks. As part of the Fetal Medicine Institute, prenatal care is coordinated so that your baby has all of the necessary specialists involved in care. We treat the fetus as an individual patient from the time of diagnosis. It is our goal to understand the effects the heart and cardiovascular system has on the well-being of the baby in utero as well as the impact the circulation has on growth and development of other parts of the body. In some instances, in-utero intervention may be possible, most often involving medical treatment delivered to the fetus through the expectant mother. Once a diagnosis is made, we explain what to expect for the duration of the pregnancy and after delivery — we make certain that all of your questions are answered and families have the support they need.
Program Director Mary T. Donofrio, MD, expanded the Fetal Heart Program to include the region's only First Trimester Fetal Cardiac Imaging Program. In addition, she is the Medical Director of the Critical Care Delivery Program, working closely with a team that includes world renowned cardiac surgeons, anesthesiologists, cardiologists, intensivists, and specially trained cardiac nurses.
Postnatally, care is coordinated with subspecialists in:
The Heart Institute's team provides a variety of cardiac services including fetal cardiac care, electrophysiology, interventional catheterization, congenital heart surgery, heart failure treatment, and cardiac transplantation.
Team members have strong ties in the community with local obstetricians, neonatologists, and pediatricians, and coordinate consultations with Children's cardiac surgeons, cardiologists, and other subspecialists. When we know that cardiac surgery will be necessary, arrangements can be made for the delivery to occur in a facility where the infant can be stabilized with the help of cardiologists prior to transport to Children's National.
In rare cases for which severe compromise is anticipated at the time of birth, the Critical Care Delivery Team can plan for a delivery at Children's National with the support of a collaborative obstetrical team. We can plan the details of the baby's delivery and specialty care so a heart abnormality does not lead to significant illness or compromise at the time of birth. Once transported to Children's National, your baby is cared for in a dedicated Cardiac Intensive Care Unit (CICU) receiving individualized care from our multidisciplinary team of experts, all specializing in the care of patients with congenital heart disease.
Before they had even entered the world, Children's National doctors had hatched a plan to safely deliver and then separate conjoined twins Tyson and Tyler.
Tyson and Tyler's Story
Mary Donofrio
Director, Fetal Heart Program
Craig Sable
Director, ECHO Program and Telemedicine
Jeffrey Becker
Sarah Clauss
Susan Cummings
Robin Doroshow
Deneen Heath
Anita Krishnan
David Schidlow
Earlier this year, the American Heart Association (AHA) released a scientific statement on the diagnosis and treatment of fetal cardiac disease written by a team of cardiac and obstetrical experts with lead author, Mary T. Donofrio, MD, Director of the Fetal Heart Program and Medical Director of the Critical Care Delivery Program for the Fetal Medicine Institute at Children's National Health System.
We provide a healthcare experience designed with kids in mind, and delivers confidence and assurance when parents need it most.
Have a question about a specific disease or condition or treatments or services we offer?
We see children from around the Washington, DC, metropolitan region, nation, and world who need the specialized expertise and child-focused care we offer.
Meet our Fetal Heart Program team.
Our pediatric specialists work closely to ensure an integrated approach to caring for each child and family.
We offer resources for families to help answer questions and ease their experience.
Children's National Health System provides suggested treatments to compliment top-notch medical education and experience.


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Edgar Allan Poe soft sculpture By: Vicki Bruner (2)
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Take home this original artwork. This soft sculpture is artist Vicki Bruner's interpretation of the author.
About the artist:
Vicki Bruner
Fine Artist and Illustrator Extraordinaire
The popularity and marketability of Vicki Bruner's paintings and illustrations has been proven in a wide variety of commercial and cultural outlets. Since 1975 her work has captured numerous "best in show" and other awards in over sixty one-woman and group shows along the East Coast, including the famous New York Art Expo and the prestigious Coconut Grove Arts Festival. Vicki has been selected as the illustrator for many commercial projects appealing to all types of audiences. Her artwork has also been featured in many national and local publications including Print Design Annuals. Vicki has been listed on the "Who's Who in American Art" and in November of 1996, she was named by the U.S. Arts as "one of the leading whimsical artists in the country today."
Artist's Statement
My 3-D work consists of sewn and stuffed cotton which is gessoed and painted. I then layer the pieces with found objects, hardware finds, and other items I have collected over the years. These pieces seem to have a mind of their own and come together as I work. Most of my art begins with a concept or title and the piece evolves from there. I like to think of my work as reflecting humor, wonder, and a bit of confusion.
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About: Matthew Boyer
- Website
- http://bigbrothernetwork.com/author/matt/
- Profile
- Creator & tireless lead writer of BigBrotherNetwork.com, the best place to hang out each season. I am a hardcore fan who has watched BBUS & BBCAN since the start & can't get enough! Join our Big Brother community & share the fun with other fans.


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Midwest Living Review
We liked what we saw at Junk Yard Chic as soon as we entered. Our end-of-August 2010 visit gave us a chance to take in a centerstage display that included a black, sticklike "Halloween tree" decorated with cute items appropriate for the fall holiday. As we wandered through the store, we saw what appeared to be handmade clocks for children's bedrooms, plus mirrors and plaques with inspirational sayings on them, pastas shaped for every sport imaginable, cookbooks, note cards and other gift-shop-type items. The owner delights in turning found items into decor (hence the name), but the majority of the goods for sale here are not homemade. Still, if you're looking for a thoughtful birthday gift or knickknack to perk up your decor, you're likely to find something here.


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Efficient charging!Today's sailboats consume a lot of electricity. That's why we've equipped the D-series with by far the best battery charger in the business - as standard equipment. It's a 115 A alternator with a built-in charging sensor that gives correct voltage at the batteries. (The D3 has a 140 A alternator.) An optional extra alternator is easy to install.Reliable starts - simple stopsWith automatic pre-heating and the relay-activated starter solenoid, starts are reliable. Electric stop is standard on all D-series engines. D1/D2 feature push-button, D3/D4 use an ignition key.
Torque for sailboatsVolvo Penta D-series engines deliver high torque even at low revs. That means plenty of power and quick response to your commands when maneuvering in a harbor. It also enables the most powerful alternators in the business.Low revs = high comfortThe D-series engines are rated at just 2800-3200 rpm, wich means a mere 1700-2500 rpm at cruising speed. The result is minimal vibrations and low noise - wich are further reduced if you have Saildrive.
1. Freshwater cooling as standard on all engines2. High capacity fuel filter - essential for reliability3. High-capacity primer pump4. Effective intake silencer contributes to low engine noise5. High-capacity hot water outlet
6. EVC (Electronic Vessel Control) is avaliable for the entire D-series7. Engine suspension with large damping volume boosts comfort8. 115 A alternator with built-in charging sensor9. Durable multi V-belt with user-friendly tensioner10. Rigid engine block for low noise


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The Achaemenid rulers of ancient Persia favored images of lions with their mouths open in a snarl or roar. On these gold jewelry
elements, the lions are shown complete or as heads only, in both fairly realistic and highly decorative forms. The gold head of a bull, another dangerous animal, seems almost placid in comparison. The pin decorated with an ibex, or wild mountain goat, was used to fasten garments.
This text refers to these objects: ' 70.142.6; 70.142.7; 70.142.8; 70.142.10; 70.142.11; 1998.25
- Medium: Gold
- Possible Place Made: Ecbatana (modern day Hamadan), Persia (modern day Iran)
- Dates: 6th - 5th century B.C.E.
- Period: Achaemenid Persian
- Dimensions: 13/16 x 1 5/16 in. (2.1 x 3.4 cm) (show scale)
- Collections:Egyptian, Classical, Ancient Near Eastern Art
- Museum Location: This item is on view in Egypt Reborn: Art for Eternity, Ancient Middle Eastern Art, The Hagop Kevorkian Gallery, 3rd Floor
- Exhibitions:
- Accession Number: 70.142.8
- Credit Line: Gift of Mr. and Mrs. Alastair Bradley Martin
- Rights Statement: Creative Commons-BY
- Caption: Bracteate, 6th - 5th century B.C.E. Gold, 13/16 x 1 5/16 in. (2.1 x 3.4 cm). Brooklyn Museum, Gift of Mr. and Mrs. Alastair Bradley Martin, 70.142.8. Creative Commons-BY
- Image:
- Record Completeness: Good (79%)


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The supercharged Camaro ZL1 is one heck of a factory offering, but most enthusiasts just can't plop $60,000 down at the local Bow Tie store, no matter how good it is. What's the less well-heeled Chevy guy to do? ProCharger delivered one answer to us recently. It purchased a used 2010 Camaro, added its new i-1 programmable boost supercharger, and sent it to Florida. We scheduled a track day to see if one bolt-on could get us ZL1-type acceleration.
What, you may be asking is a programmable-boost supercharger? It's the latest innovation from ProCharger, a supercharger company with a long history of them. Rather than having to change pulleys to increase or decrease power, the i-1 comes with three factory-supplied boost programs from the factory and allows you (or your tuner) to create your own custom programs. There's an optional touch-screen programmer available that allows you to switch between modes, including a valet mode should you have to hand your pride and joy off to someone who don't trust with over 600 flywheel horsepower.
When we first laid eyes on the i-1 at the 2012 SEMA show, we were intrigued by its potential. The i-1 can increase the power of a stock LS3 Camaro (or Corvette) by nearly 200 rear-wheel horsepower with no other modifications. The car we tested went from 373 rwhp to 568 with just 7.5 lbs of pump-gas-friendly boost. Compare this to the ZL1 test car we had on our office DynoJet earlier this year, which made 509 rwhp, and you can see the i-1 gives you better-than-ZL1 power.
Ken Jones, the president of ProCharger, drove the car you see on these pages from the company's headquarters in Lenexa, Kansas, to our office in Tampa in the heat of July. We sampled this F-body on both the roads around our office and PBIR. We're here to tell you this is one impressive piece of technology. Our test car (a 2SS with a manual transmission) drove like an unmolsted Camaro until you jumped on the throttle. Then things happen in a hurry. Your every fiber will let you know this Camaro is anything but stock. Unlike some centrifugal-style blowers, there's little-to-no lag. The boost comes right in, pinning your head to the seat, even in 90-degree tropical Florida heat. Trust me, we didn't baby the SS. It was at full operating temperature with the A/C on when we drove it. There was no sign of detonation no matter how often or hard we hammered it. All we got was torque, horsepower, tire-spin, and acceleration. Lots of acceleration.
According to ProCharger, i-1 blowers feature exclusive billet impellers The programmable boost is delivered by a durable variable ratio transmission design, with a rugged dry hybrid drive. The i-1 is the result of four years of intensive R&D and rigorous performance testing, and it's the i-1 is available with ProCharger's optional three-year supercharger warranty. All i-1 supercharger systems come complete, and are backed by ProCharger and its network of dealers.
While gaining nearly 200 rwhp on a bone stock car is quite the improvement, the i-1 can support up 900 (or more) horsepower if you have a modified engine. According to Jones, "You can turn up the boost on the i-1 just like any of our other blowers. We've made 870 flywheel horsepower on the engine dyno with a lightly modified LS2 motor and the i-1, at approximately 14 psi and with a relatively conservative redline and tune. We rate the i-1 at 900 HP, but the numbers/analysis indicates it can produce over 925 HP on a well-matched motor."
In theory, Jones says, the i-1 is technically capable of 30 psi, but in reality given the size/flow of the motor it would typically be installed upon, it would be rare for it to be operated at more than 20 psi. Installation by an experienced technician should not take more than a day, though it takes two extra hours to install versus a traditional ProCharger.


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Adult siblings deal with their estranged father's desire to return home for Christmas for the first time since he walked out on his family 20 years ago. Family rifts emerge, and like with any family, Christmas brings a mixed bag of complicated emotions and dynamics. Alliances form, old wounds are reopened or glossed over, and the possibility for a new hope and forgiveness emerges.
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Cast: Connie Britton, Heather Burns, Kerry Bishé, Marsha Dietlein Bennett,, Brian D'Arcy James
Produced by: Edward Burns, Aaron Lubin, William Rexer II
Directed by: Edward Burns
Written by: Edward Burns
Running time: 1hr 39min
Opens: Dec 07, 2012 NY


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Posted 26 January 2013 - 20:45
You're right. That does seem to be the overly simplistic argument you see put forward by gun nuts,
Posted 26 January 2013 - 20:49
Not yet. He will get around to full gun control. I agree that all Assault Weapons should be banned, but there are thousands out there already.
Posted 26 January 2013 - 23:56
Posted 27 January 2013 - 00:17
You may call it overly simplistic but when the 10-year Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act was passed in '94 the picture in the OP accurately describes what happened (with assault weapons anyway). Criminals do not care what the law says. They will always find what they want if they have enough cash. Furthermore, some of the most horrific shootings involving assault weapons occurred while the ban was in effect.
This isn't about guns. It was never about guns. Liberal politicians are trying to desensitize the masses to an erosion of rights and liberties. Our president and his cronies are a bunch of radical communist nut-jobs. They seek to form a class of elites to control all of the resources and all of the people. Obama's current economic policy should be proof enough for that as he has made calculated moves to keep businesses off kilter as to keep unemployment high which increases dependence on the government. The trouble is few people understand what the REAL American Dream is - Obtaining a state of near total self reliance with limited government intervention. These are sad times in America and it will get worse before people wake up and hold their elected officials accountable.


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DY-5822-Grip [PY-A-896]
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If you're a lefty you need these grips! Daisy Item #5822 Do not use on firearms.
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Zen: Simply Sitting: A Zen monk's commentary on the Fukanzazengi (Universal Guide on the Correct Practice of Zazen) by Master Dogen, by Philippe Coupey
Forward by Lee Lozowick, Translator's preface by Marc Shaver
Hohm, Press, 1890772615, 114 pp. (incl. notes, glossary and index), 2006
Zen: Simply Sitting is a book in two parts. The first is the text of the Fukanzazengi , written by Master Dogen (1200-1253) in 1227, and later revised into its final form in 1242-1243. It is the final version, the Rufubon, which is reproduced here. As we learn, fukan means "recommended for the people", meaning that the text is intended for laypeople, not only monks and priest.
The Fukanzazengi is extremely brief, only a few pages long, and it deals with the practice of zazen, seated meditation. Master Dogen describes the correct posture and attitude one should maintain while sitting. His prose is sparse and direct, with clear guidelines on how it should be done. Continue reading


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Mfg.: Pitco
Model: Pitco SE184-SSTC
The Pitco name has become synonymous with quality and efficiency. They produce some of the highest quality, most efficient, and most dependable deep fryers on the market. They have many models that have been certified by the AGA and awarded the ENERGY STAR ®, and on top of saving people money by producing long lasting equipment, they help keep energy costs down. Each fryer is available with a solid state thermostat, or at an additional cost, a digital, computer, or multi-zone computer. We have a full line of Pitco products, and a Mix N' Match fry bank can be built to cater to your businesses specific needs. For more information on our full line, or a having a Mix N' Match fry bank built, please contact us directly.
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