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Tuesday, July 7th, 2015
Current Time 6:01:36am
Current Time 6:01:36am
Obituaries: Donald E. Carr
|Donald E. Carr
|of New Concord, Ohio
|Donald E. Carr age 70 of New Concord passed away at Good Samaritian ER on Monday September 9, 2013. He was born on February 24, 1943 in Greensburg, PA., son of the late Charles and Edith (Fink) Carr. Don was a graduate of Hempfield Area High School in Greensburg, PA. He married his High School sweetheart Jane L. Rogenmoser in 1963 at Westminister Presbyterian Church in Greensburg, PA. They moved to Wadsworth, Ohio in 1964 and then to a farm in New Concord in 1978. They celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary on August 31, 2013. He retired from East Ohio Gas Company after 33 years of service. He continued farming up to his death. Don was well known in the community by many. He was an avid hunter and outdoorsman. He enjoyed many hours rabbit, deer and turkey hunting with friends and family. He was preceded in death by his parents, Charles and Edith (Fink) Carr, a brother Charles Carr, a sister Mildred Kepple. Donald is survived by his loving wife of 50 years, Jane L. Carr, a son David S. (Jennifer A.) Carr of New Concord, a daughter Donna (Toots) Jeff Murphy of Granville, Oh., two brothers Gerald (Patty) Carr of Somerset, PA., and Dean (Sue) Carr of Warren, Oh., a sister Doris Rubright of Sheffield, PA., sister-in-law Betty Lou Carr of New Alexandria, PA., and 3 grandsons and 4 granddaughters. Calling hours will be from 2:00 to 4:00 & 6:00 to 8:00 Thursday September 12, 2013 at Bundy-Law Funeral Home with funeral services to be held at 11:00 AM Friday September 13, 2013 at the funeral home with Pastor Steve Leathley officiating. Burial in Zion Cemetery. Memorial contributions can be made to the American Heart Association. On-line condolences can be sent to the family at www.bundy-lawfuneralhome.com.
|2:00 to 4:00 & 6:00 8:00 PM Thursday September 12, 2013 at Bundy-Law Funeral Home
|11:00 Am Friday September 13, 2013 at Bundy-Law Funeral Home with Pastor Steve Leathley officiating.
|Zion Cemetery
|Bundy-Law Funeral Home - Cambridge
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Just nominate a video. Youtube is full of weird stuff anyway. Nominations can be made untill Wednesday and then you can vote.
WARNING If you are not mental and would not like to be mental, DO NOT watch any of these videos
Moderators: Jason, Toothy, Tonyblack
Trying to trick us huh? Posting the same video twice and seeing if we notice the difference.Cheery wrote:I'm nominating those two: Just wait until the end. It's really weird.
Gigi D'Agostino - Bla Bla
Gigi D'Agostino - the Riddle
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By Claire Walla
When it comes down to it, 10,000 pounds isn't really that much.
Sedans, SUVs and light-duty pick-up trucks would make the cut. But, according to Southampton Town Traffic Coordinator Tom Neely, heavy-duty pick-ups, larger vans, dump trucks and tractor-trailers would have to go.
That was cause for concern for many who came to Town Hall speak out on the issue of banning vehicles over 10,000 pounds at a Southampton Town Board meeting on Tuesday, April 24.
The proposed legislation, put forth by Southampton Town Supervisor Anna Throne-Holst, would effectively prohibit vehicles over 10,000 pounds from driving along Noyac Road between County Road 39 and the Village of Sag Harbor. A few exemptions would include school buses and vehicles doing business on Noyac Road.
The legislation was put together in an effort to further address traffic-calming measures, which have been hotly debated for years with regard to Noyac Road, specifically the curve that runs along Cromer's Market and the Whalebone Gift Store.
Discussions have mainly revolved around road repairs, like installing a concrete median or adding striping to get cars to slow down. But at a community meeting last month, which was attended by over 100 Noyac residents and every member of the Southampton Town Board, a couple of people brought up the ban.
"We were thinking about fuel-delivery trucks, ones that seem to use [Noyac Road] as a thoroughfare rather than a delivery route," Throne-Holst said. She added that the major threat comes from the large trucks that tend to use Noyac Road to bypass traffic on Montauk Highway, and proceed to speed through the bayside hamlet.
"There's risk and danger for oncoming traffic," she said. Let alone the noise factor.
"The noise is significant," said Bill Reilly, who lives on Oak Drive near Noyac Road. He explained that because road conditions have improved over the years, it's effectively increased the amount of traffic caused by large trucks. While banning all trucks over 10,000 pounds might not be the solution—Reilly admitted that vehicles prohibited from driving down Noyac Road would just travel elsewhere—he said, "we've got a significant problem."
However, the legislation, as it now stands, may have some unintended consequences, as members of the Sag Harbor community pointed out on Tuesday.
"If you took the trucks off Noyac Road, my opinion is that you would also increase the speed on Noyac Road," said Mickey Valcich of garbage-collection company Mickey's Carting.
East Hampton Highway Supervisor Steve Lynch added that prohibiting certain vehicles from using Noyac Road would add time onto their routes, which would be costly in the long-run.
John Tintle, who owns and operates the Sand Land Corporation, which has a facility on Mill Stone Road, agreed.
"The unintended consequences passed on to the tax payers would be enormous," she said. Tintle explained that he already charges higher prices for deliveries that are further away because of fuel costs. By averting Noyac Road, and thus adding extra time onto truck routes, he said costs would inevitably rise.
And they would not only rise for those living in Southampton Town.
Jay Card, superintendent of highways for Shelter Island, and Jim Dougherty, Shelter Island Town Supervisor, both spoke out on the issue, saying it would make commuting on and off the island for commercial trucks very difficult.
"It would essentially cause us to go all the way to East Hampton to get back to Montauk Highway," Card said.
"We basically think that in a soft economy like this, this is no time to be burdening our residents with additional costs," Dougherty said.
Neely explained that the town used the 10,000-pound benchmark only because it had used that measurement in the past. He further noted that this would prohibit F350 trucks and Ram 3500 trucks from taking Noyac Road.
"If this were to go forward, looking at heavier weights would be something we'd want to put out there," he said.
The other big issue is enforcement, a topic many speakers brought up.
Neely explained that in order enforce the law, police officers would be responsible for pulling vehicles over and physically checking the inside of the passenger door, where the maximum weight is listed. Officers would also be responsible for checking any documentation the driver might have to prove he or she is making a local delivery or service call.
"You would have to put a number of vehicles on that road to do enforcement," said Sag Harbor Village Police Chief Tom Fabiano. "And I guarantee that once you put this into effect, you're going to get a lot of calls [from people saying], 'there's a truck on Noyac Road, do something about it.'"
Throne-Holst said she recognized there were many concerns, particularly for the business community. And while she said the town does not have accurate statistics on just how many of the vehicles that drive down Noyac Road are large trucks, she suggested the town put together a study in order to secure that information.
"In the end, we need some sort of understanding of what the actual traffic looks like there," she said, adding that this is just one component of what she hopes will be a bigger plan. "What this town needs to do is a comprehensive truck route."
The board closed the public hearing on Tuesday, but has opened up a 30-day comment period on the proposed legislation.


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- Krys C
- Sydney
- Canada
This conversation is closed.
What are 10 things YOU know to be true?
I was interested and intrigued by Sarah's '10 things you know to be true' list exercise, particularly with the pattern she observed in hearing others; that you would continuously see items exact and opposite to your own, items you've never heard of, or thought about before in exactly that light.
I'm fascinated by our definitions of what we consider to be 'truth', and the disputes between our definitions.
So I propose we post a couple lists of our own here, and experience our agreements (and disagreements), learn some new ideas and lines of thought. Personally, I think it best to write your own list BEFORE reading the ones posted here to avoid influence ;)
I hope a couple people will be interested in participating in this miniature project. And, hey, if you see something in someone's list you'd like to ask about, or learn more about, or debate. . .we now have the TED conversation platform to make that possible.
My list:
1. These are the most exciting times in which we could ever hope to be alive which have already occurred.
2. Too often, we allow inertia to control our actions.
3. Everyone should travel.
4. 'Because that's the way things are' is not a valid reason.
5. Whenever you say 'I had no choice', you're lying.
6. It is possible to have an honest and even pleasant relationship with someone you do not like.
7. Loving someone or something heart and soul does not necessarily make it good for you, or them, or it.
8. There are ideas and inventions yet to come which will make into reality what we consider to be fantasy today.
9. Everyone has at least one story worth hearing.
10. My truth is not final.
Mar 21 2011: 0 : as a probabilistic thinker, I cannot say I know anything to be 100% true...but I think it's true:
1 to 4 : 0th to 3rd law of thermodynamics
5 : If you want to understand the world, you cannot go without science nor skepticism
6 : You don't need to understand the world to have a good life
7 : Artificial intelligence will become smarter than human intelligence
8 : I will die
9 : I feel connected
10: This was fun to do
Mar 22 2011: I was provoked by number 7.
What do you mean by smarter? And "human intelligence"?
Mar 26 2011: I'll open a debate about it
Mar 29 2011: Is there room for "wisdom"?Apr 2 2011: :-)Apr 2 2011: #7 but is it already? I don't know anyone that knows me as well as AMAZON recommends knows me :) jkMar 23 2011: 8 : I will die
You mean you probably will die :P
@Anna: He's talking about the singularity - take a look at Ray Kurzweils talks on TED. The exponential growth of technology, he believes, will one day surpass human computational capacity.
Mar 23 2011: @ Cory
Yes, probably
I'm not a singularity adept... I came to that conclusion independently (well, at least before knowing Kurzweils point of view). I don't agree with Ray completely, but from a computational point of vieuw,
@ Anna
I don't see any laws of nature preventing a form of artificial intelligence to arise... If we start to program self learning algorithms, they will, given enough computation power and memory, be smarter than human intelligence.
By human intelligence I mean (more or less) what we test in IQ tests, or (fuzzy) what laymen think is 'smart'
so smarter would mean: higher IQ, and better at making decisions that are in function of the pre-stated desires (like happiness, wealth, social status, sexual success, satisfaction, gratification, avoiding pain and injury, pleasures, justice, health,... ,...)
Mar 24 2011: What part would emotional intelligence play in this? Could artificial intelligence ever possibly replicate this form of intelligence?Mar 25 2011: But Christophe, I am not sure that all human intelligence can be described with algorithms, for example emotional intelligence (as Lee mentions), empathy, the kind of creative genius that creates mind blowing art....
...and if the computers are created by humans, maybe they will be kind of human as well? Or the distinction might become more unclear, what is man and what is machine....Mar 29 2011: Also, could a machine ever truly love? One of the things that makes us most human is our ability to love. I don't think that a machine could ever feel love.Apr 1 2011: Why, might I ask, would you want to live forever? To become some sort of robotic superhuman that would have to live through our progressively darker times? To live forever would be so unnatural and frightening.Mar 29 2011: I don't see how dying could be a "probably". Unless we somehow advance so quickly that we are able to defeat death, which I don't believe will ever happen. And even if it does, I know I won't be a part of it. Like the great Freddie Mercury said, "Who wants to live forever?"
Mar 30 2011: Try http://www.ted.com/talks/aubrey_de_grey_says_we_can_avoid_aging.html
You give yourself the answer: there is an 'unless', although it has a small probability, it is a non-zero probability that has the potential to increase, actually has been increasing already.
I don't know about you and Freddie is no more, but If they give me the option of longevity or not dying, I might say "where do I sign in?".Apr 1 2011: Why living forever?
Well, I'll stay conscious for one...
I would live through ever brighter times! (http://www.rationaloptimist.com/ or http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/matt_ridley_when_ideas_have_sex.html)
It would be something unprecedented, and might be frightening to you...
It might be fun! or boring... but we don't know that...?Mar 29 2011: I agree with Anna on the artificial intelligence subject. AI may be able to surpass human intelligence in terms of computation - numbers - because that is something that is concrete and absolute, and the machines can be programmed to figure those things out themselves. But there are aspects of humanity, of human intelligence, that I don't think a machine could ever truly possess. Sure, a machine can make art, but, like Anna said, can it really feel it? As humans, when we create or look at a piece of art we can truly feel something, and I don't think a machine could ever do that. We can look at nature, at natural wonders, at other people, and see the beauty in the world around us and feel it. We can create music that can invoke and purge the soul. A machine could play music, but it could never truly understand it without a human brain. The one thing I never understood is why scientists try so hard to recreate the human brain in non-human entities. Why do we need robots that can perform every action for us? We already have amazing robots, why do we need to create something that will one day possibly be able to pass us in computational and mathematical intelligence? We will not be able to distinguish between man and machine, and all of this is just a disaster waiting to happen. The human brain is something that can never be truly recreated - it is too complex and even we will never be able to fully understand our own intelligence. We can feel, emote, build relationships with those around us. Only natural, living life can do this. Robots may be able to to an extent, but never in the same way. There is no such thing as a robot genius or a robot prodigy. But there are human versions of these. Anyway tell me what you think.
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Mar 23 2011: If you estimate the uncertainty, you don't need to fall in either category. (I guess ;-) )
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Mar 26 2011: @ Mark: Exactly
for example: If I were to hit a wall:
I assume that there is a possibility that I'm under an unknown drug inhibiting my sensory perception in my fist.
Or my food contained a neurotoxin
Or I suddenly became able to ignore pain sensitivity completely
After I hit it (and got the pain experience)... I could imagine unlikely reasons why the causality could -in principle- be flawed... but most often I treat 99.99999% likely as sure...
Mar 28 2011: our senses continually decieve us - that is why truth is so elusiveMar 29 2011: Mark,
Our "senses" are constructs of our brain, which deceives us constantly, relentlessly. Everything we think we "know" is a product of the filters that protect us from the barrage of information we are assaulted with every minute of every day.Mar 29 2011: Suggesting Blink : the power of thinking without thinking by Malcolm Gladwell as an interesting take on the subject.Mar 29 2011: Our senses don't have a 100% accuracy, and both our senses and our brain are not entirely accurate.
Being error prone is not a problem. From cybernetics we know that on an error prone machine or channel we still can have accurate information transmission (or nearly accurate.
You know a visual illusion by analyzing it in different ways. you find logical inconsistencies by applying logic. You learn about the deceit through knowledge, other tools and other measures,...Mar 29 2011: I agree on No.5, we can never learn about the world with sicence if this world was not designed in a scientific way. But we could reason out from that fact that there is a super intelligent being above this world which we can not fully learn about because of our limitations. BUT (again), there is a great possibility to understand much of "it" if it reveal itself. It did.
Mar 29 2011: I almost completely disagree.
A fact needs not be reasoned out. And the existence of a super intelligent being is not a fact. (It most probably is a fiction)
Mar 29 2011: do you mean the facts WE KNOW doesn't need to be reasoned out? there are a lot facts we do believe by reasoning like "your grand-grand-pa was a child of a woman.Mar 30 2011: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FactApr 6 2011: I while back I think I saw Dennet on Ted talking about conscience and a bit about how the nodes inside the Internet looks a lot like the network of nerves inside our brains, what do you think about that, is Internet alive, can we communicate with it :)?
Apr 7 2011: I think the internet pretty much behaves as an organism... And there are parallels with the brain...
BUT, most (probably all) agents (with highly developed intelligence) on the net are human. They feed from and to the net. So the bigger creature (hive), is constituted by us...
I think there are already replicons and quasi-life like entities on the net (computer viruses, worms, trojans,...) but they seem very primitive...
I have no idea whether there are already surviving, replicating and mutating colonies on the cloud, but I gather they might appear...
The algorithms on the net are getting smarter, and our communication seems to have filters, so we are already directed by the net towards the things that might interest us, and give us pleasure... But still, most of this is done by humans, not algorithms...
But see if this works:
"HEY INTERNET, IF YOU READ AND UNDERSTAND THIS, COULD YOU LET ME KNOW AND MAKE AN APPOINTMENT FOR A CHAT" (I would try to find proof to see whether it's not some clever person tricking me though... )
May 2 2011: "HEY INTERNET, IF YOU READ AND UNDERSTAND THIS, COULD YOU LET ME KNOW AND MAKE AN APPOINTMENT FOR A CHAT" (I would try to find proof to see whether it's not some clever person tricking me though... )
HilariousMay 2 2011: For #7 I would say that AI will definitely surpass us in logical intelligence. The programing used for it is based on logic and will continue to be. However, there may be ways in which humans will remain more intelligent. Such as emotional intelligence as others have stated. Also things that have no relevance to anything but us. Then again if humans start using 100% of our brain capacity who knows?
"The algorithms on the net are getting smarter, and our communication seems to have filters, so we are already directed by the net towards the things that might interest us, and give us pleasure... But still, most of this is done by humans, not algorithms..."
If there is AI what will it direct us to see?
Can we program a universal stop code now?
Can we program a question into AI that all AI knows it to be answered in one way? That way there could be a tell of if an AI is associating or if it's a human? (this could be the proof you seek when the internet responds to your request for a chat)
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Cory Martin
May 2 2011: I have a problem with #1
- +1
Do you have a way around the self-defeating nature of relative truth?
Saying that all truth is relative is a non-relative statement.
Also do you believe there is no objective truth and that people do not have the means to discover it, or do you believe that x proposition can be both true and false at the same time or at different times?
Sorry I'm not bashing your views or anything I just tend towards the absolutist/hardline/moderate skepticism side of the debate and interested in your respose :D
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May 3 2011: Sorry if I was if my scentences were confusing in anyway but no the counter-argument to relativism I was attempting to express was a logically self defeating statement that resides in relitivisms core argument. Basically relativism contends that all truth is relative and that there is no such thing is an absolute statement/law/universal or maxim or that any absolute statement/universal/law or maxin is false or is not the only truth. In turn does this not make the core reletavist proposition (that ALL absolute statements are false) false by it's own definition? My appologies if that was hard to follow. Conciseness has never been my forte.
Secondly I agree with you about falsifiability and I assume you are using that argument under the same conditions of Karl Popper.
However, I do contend your final statement that "x proposition can be both true and false at different contexts and times. This statement justifies almost anything as culturally relative. For example, William Wilberforce put forward a bill for the abolition of slavery twice, first it was rejected, then it was accepted. A culturally relative condition Wilberforce was wrong in opposing slavery in the first place but was subsequently right when the bill was accepted. I just do not understant how ,logically, a proposition can be both true and false.
Another example: The world was once believed to be flat and under the context of the time (and your condition) the people of the world were correct in believing that the world was flat, this was the truth. However, when people migrated to the belief that the world is round somehow belief in the world being flat would be false.May 2 2011: What is the counter for the argument that every argument has a counter?
May 2 2011: I love your question Thomas!
All life is a paradox, except the part that isn't.
May 3 2011: that's very very right : all life is a paradox.May 4 2011: Wait! All relativism is relative and all absolutism is absolute right? Yes paradox, but even more than that. I do honestly belive that both of those categories are inherently false. Things do change as Pab points out, there is truth that is finally true. We understand as humans what we understand. However that doesn't make it true, only understandable. Truth is out there. It does exist outside of my own understanding of reality. Living in the paradox is not easy, but it is finally put, very satisfying.
- 0
May 3 2011: Thomas :....... the argument itselfApr 8 2011: 1. We are such small pieces of an unimaginably complex system.
- 0
2. We aren't as important as we think we are.
3. We are pretty amazing none the less.
4. Everything I know to be true is just an imperfect reflection of actual truth.
5. Nice people don't finish last, they just aren't as worried about being first.
6. Forgiveness is better for your health than revenge.
7. A degree is a piece of paper, and paper alone does not an education make.
8. You can control very little of this life so take advantage and follow your dreams when ever you can.
9. Travel is an amazing teacher.
10. We shouldn't shelter our children from failure but instead give them the tools to learn from it and emerge better for it.
Apr 9 2011: lovely..and wiseApr 9 2011: Stephen, I was pondering nr 2 today, because participating in TED conversations has become a kind of addiction to me. But my fear is that I like it so much just because I feel important when I post here. And fool myself into wasting time trying to boost my ego.
So here I go posting this fear as well and pretend that it is important ;-))).......Mar 26 2011: 1. Mid-morning television worldwide sucks.
2. On a sunny day or a dark night, I'd go for a regular Atheist-Joe to lend me a helping hand 'cause religious people have imaginary friend(s) and apparently so do the lonely 5-year-olds.
3. The Luxembourg park in Paris is the place to be on a sunny Saturday morning - a book and a cup of coffee (they also have free public wireless to make things even better).
4. Plosives are always lateral before a lateral in English.
5. Learning is fun but UNlearning is good for you.
6. Fear is good but only if you are being chased by an animal, a hateful human, a zealous priest or a survey taker.
7. I will never stop trying to be better at whatever I do and constantly feel I could have done more.
8. Clothes-wise, cotton beats polyester anytime.
9. BigBang, thank you for accidentally giving the humans the opportunity to exist - your random act of kindness will not be forgotten. ^^
10. Move away from the computer and stop surfing the net already. Procrastination is bad for you and you know it's TRUE that you have something better or more important to do!
Ben B
Mar 31 2011: The survey taker in number 6 made me laugh, thank you. And procastrination ... I confess ...
- 0
Apr 4 2011: I think we all confess < yet I excuse every minute that I spend on TED, it is good for your health>
Mark Roy
Apr 1 2011: awesome listApr 4 2011: Sanja, Thank you for the reminder in point 10May 2 2011: Acting on the advice of point 10 right now. See, you've done a good deed!May 4 2011: 1. Everyone wants to be happy.
- 0
2. Almost everything is cyclic. Seasons cycle through winters and summers. Moods cycle through joys and sorrows. Economies cycle through recessions and booms, states through war and peace.
3. People are very complex.
4. We all sit on gigantic hoards of memories. Random stimuli in the environment cause random memories to surface.
5. Everyone develops some sort of "philosophy" based on what life throws at them. This forms the basis of every decision they make.
6. Most people have suffered.
7. Cynicism is for cowards who won't dare hope.
8. Consistency is very difficult.
9. Habits are tough to kill.
10. Nobody seems to know where happiness hides. But some theories seem likelier than others.
May 5 2011: Skanda, I do not think anyone else has pointed out your truth #2. Its a good one.
I like the feistiness of #7!May 5 2011: Skanda, I so agree with Debra about your #2. It sounds strange to some western thought that time and history move that way, but get out of those cultures, and most other societies have some form of cyclical time. I could go on & on about this one! I like #3 also, because it reminds us that all people, everywhere, are more than just biology or sociology. It also reminds us to be careful in judging the motives of others.
May 5 2011: Thanks for your comments guys. I'm always fascinated by how far you can go when you start looking at things this way. For instance we have planetary systems, with planets revolving around stars. Zoom into matter far enough, and suddenly you're looking at analogues of these systems (in the form of electrons whizzing around nuclei).
May 5 2011: Everything, well almost everything is fractal in nature. I am convinced of that. The cycles are just how we see them.Mar 28 2011: 1. When I travel, even if it's just a day trip, I'm happiest.
2. People are pretentious for believing that they will every truly know, without a shadow of a doubt, whether or not there is a god or some form of higher power/being.
3. We are so much smaller than we would like to make ourselves out to be.
4. Education is the key to almost everything.
5. Society, politics, etc will always be flawed because we as individuals are flawed, and when you put a bunch of individuals together, their flaws escalate with each new person added.
6. We are all hypocrites.
7. We hardly ever learn from our history, and therefore we are playing the same basic game now that we did 1,000s of years ago.
8. We are overpopulating the Earth, and hardly anyone wants to deal with it. If we look at our population growth in the past 100 years, and then think of those dots as insect (cockroaches, for example) population growth instead of human population growth, people would freak out. We are the said cockroaches to the rest of the species on the planet.
9. I know very little, and it saddens me.
10. What is "the truth" to me today may not be "the truth" to me tomorrow.
Mar 28 2011: I love 4. Education is the key to almost everything. In India, where I am from, it is one sure way, that people can make a break from the lower economic segments and towards a better quality of life
Mar 29 2011: Exactly. I'd say your example of India is true for the rest of the world.Mar 29 2011: To fear the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.
Mar 30 2011: That may be a truth for you, but it is not for me.
Tao P
Apr 4 2011: 'Your belief in God is merely an escape from your monotonous, stupid and cruel life'May 2 2011: kinda harsh there Tao, to each their own. I'm sure you could easily be cut down for beliefs you hold dear.Mar 29 2011: You are very wise, Monica. I especially love numbers 2, 4, 9, and 10. All are so true. As to number 2, I've been doing a lot of "soul-searching" lately in the way of religion, and this is what I've come to find. People can say that they do or do not believe that there is a God or gods or any kind of higher power, but no one really knows or will ever know. My heart wants to tell me that there is a God or gods or something up there, but my brain tells me that there isn't, that there can't be. And I've come to find that the brain is often a more reliable source than the heart, as cynical as that may sound. But I really don't know, and none of us do. I don't know if it makes people pretentious to believe that they do know though. If they are preaching what they believe and will listen to no other opinion, then maybe, yes, but I think a lot of people are raised with it so strictly that they can't break out of that mindset that there is or isn't a higher power or powers of some sort. That's what bothers me the most about religion - that hardly ever do we get to decide for ourselves what to believe. The people and societies that raise us decide, and it's so difficult to break free from that.
- +1
Mar 29 2011: Why, thank you. :) I'm pretty young on here compared to most of the members, so I really appreciate that compliment. I have actually had the exact same thought process when it comes to religion. My heart wants there to be a God, which, because I grew up in Christianity, means there will be a heaven, therefore I will always exist. I will not cease to exist. Basically, that my life will not just be a little speck in time but rather that I will continue to "be". However, my head says this is most likely not the case, and I am merely a mortal being, as much as I'd like not to be. As far as being pretentious, I mean that in a way to say that we as humans both collectively and individually think we know more than we actually do (generalization), and to say that any single human knows with certainty whether or not there is a god (or gods) is giving human knowledge and placement in the universe too much credit. Then again, you could get into the theory of knowledge and look at how people know what they know and one could argue that it's not pretentious of them because of the ways they know what they know, but that would be a discussion way above and beyond the character limit on here. And, when I say people are pretentious, I mean that in an idealistic, philosophical way. I don't actually look at my religious friends and go, "Wow, you're so full of yourself and your confidence in your beliefs of God. How pretentious of you". I completely understand what you mean when you say people can't break from religion. I'd say Western religions are more geared towards not allowing people to make up their minds than Eastern religions, but I'm sure both have the characteristic of "this is what is true and this is what you'll believe" to a certain extent. I mean, they have to after all, because they're organized religions.
May 2 2011: "but that would be a discussion way above and beyond the character limit on here" made me chuckle. I agree with you entirely that we think we know so much more then we possibly can with what we actually know for sure. Also there are people who truly know there is a god, people such as the pope. Just as there are people who truly know that there is not. These people evaluate all their knowledge and it proves to them that they are correct about what they think, but I'll give that they are pretentious.Mar 29 2011: on No. 10, do you mean you may not think stealing is wrong, but you'll change your idea when your money is stolen?
Mar 29 2011: I don't think she means that. But there are certain things that we consider truths now that may not always be truths. The time's are always changing, and everything has the capacity to change. Even if you took your example of stealing - in the future, for all we know, stealing could be seen as acceptable. It's not likely, but we don't know that it won't ever happen. I think more of what she means is that we may believe we have a certain knowledge about something, but that may one day change. For instance, centuries ago people believed that the earth was flat and that the sun revolved around the earth. These theories have since been disproved, so what people used to believe was the truth is no longer the truth. What we call truth can often be just an opinion or belief that isn't necessarily even provable, but that people feel so strongly about and trust in so faithfully, that we don't even realize that it may not be true.
Jim Moonan
Apr 17 2011: No, I don't think she means that. I think Monica means that, as you grow and learn you leave the door open to revising you values and beliefs and have the courage to change them when you know they need changing.Apr 4 2011: People are made of their experiences: often people do not question what they are raised to 'know' until they are faced with extreme loss whether percieved, threatened, or actual
- +1
Remember with your number 2 question the power of example: we limit ourselves by judging the ability of another to change their world view/ a mind stretched to a new idea can never go back to it's original shape (famous quote by someone I'm bad with names) What took a while for me to really learn is the power of seaking first to understand, often people hold beliefs that they do not realize they carry that may be unrational and they dont see it until they say it and then try and rely on that belief at a later date.
#10 and overall
Congrats you are growing and doing a fantastic job of dismissing all that you know and challengingallthat society makes us believe, some day you will find that truths are meant to be everchanging but a solid set of personal values will keep the integrity of your changing beliefs and you will not be cast as a hypocritical like you see the world right now because you may value something but it is teething you honor more than that one thing you dismiss in a prioritization of those values. You are never wrong for doing what you value as long as your values are not based upon a fleeting emotion like anger, personal happiness and even pleasure.Apr 4 2011: Monica, I admire you thoughtfulness in point 10Apr 6 2011: I agree with number 7, but if you think about it it's not really that surprising, is it? You can read something somewhere or have it taught to you but in reality, I find that the most important stuff I learn comes from my mistakes. I mean, we only live for 70-80-90 something years and the further you go back in time the shorter this span gets, how're we supposed to learn so many of these things when we reboot ourselves all the time?
Apr 16 2011: That is a very interesting way of looking at things! I've never really thought of that before. Thank you for your input. :)May 6 2011: I agree. History has not to be a just subject, it has to be our DNA re-codification tool. Ancient cultures knew that passing knowledge through chants and stories leaded to better generations. We do not even talk about our own past mistakes to our children, worst being caught talking about our ancestors' mistakes. Recognizing to your children that we are fallible is a good start. Even better when we learn to ask for forgiveness from them.


text: I am not even remotely interested in this fight. Two guys way past there prime. I don't even think I could watch another RJJ fight. I loved watching him in his prime but I think he is doing so much damage to his brain at this point I could not watch it with a clear conscience


text:
Princess of India™ Barbie® Doll
Princess of India™ Barbie® doll is awe-inspiring in her sari, the best-known type of Indian clothing. Made of soft shimmering materials, this extraordinary pink sari features golden accents and is draped around her body and over her head in an intricate style. Like some princesses, she wears a golden headpiece called a tikka, a forehead ornament. The tikka hangs above her bindi, the dot on her forehead. A golden choker and earrings complete this wonderful costume.
Production doll may vary from the photo shown above. Mattel reserves the right to modify the fashion/fabrics, sculpt, hair color/style, and accessories. Doll cannot stand alone as shown.


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Ford Saleen Mustang Parnelli Jones 302
- Stock #
- 132955
- Body Style
- Coupe
- Engine
- Exterior Color
- Grabber Orange
- Interior Color
- Black
- Miles
- 39
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- 1 of 500
- Tremec 5-speed
- 40 actual miles
- 8.8 inch / 3.73 gears
- 400hp/302cid V8
- 19 inch aluminum wheels
The biggest name in hot rod Mustangs for the past 20 years was Saleen Incorporated. By offering limited edition, high performance turnkey sports cars, Steve Saleen took his company from a garage bay tuner to a highly respected OEM level manufacturer. And as one of only 500 cars produced to honor legendary Indianapolis 500 winner Parnelli Jones, this spotless 2007 Parnelli Jones 302 is perhaps his coolest creation. Painted in Grabber Orange, outfitted with one of the most complete and cohesive performance packages ever produced and showing a mere 40 showroom shuffling miles, this 2007 Saleen is quite possibly the last essentially new car of its kind. If you're a savvy car collector who is looking for the opportunity to own a red hot future collector's item that is an absolute thrill to drive, here's your chance!
The cars original dealership sticker is still adhered to its passenger's side window and lists the following Saleen equipment:
- Saleen/Parnelli Jones high compression 3-valve 5.0 liter 302 cubic inch V8 with 400hp and 390lb./ft. of torque
- Saleen PowerFlash performance calibration
- Saleen 2.5 inch performance dual exhaust with dual stainless steel tips
- Saleen power pulleys and SFI approved damper
- Saleen design shaker hood with hi-flow inlet tube, air box cover and Saleen performance air filter
- Saleen forged aluminum pistons
- Saleen forged steel connecting rods
- Saleen ported aluminum cylinder heads with performance springs
- Saleen performance camshaft
- Saleen 5-speed manual transmission with Saleen close ratio shifter
- Saleen lightweight aluminum flywheel
- Saleen 8.8 inch differential with 3.73 gears
- Limited Edition exclusive Grabber Orange paint with black hood stripe, black side stripe and black decklid
- Limited Edition injection molded TPO front fascia with race inspired air dam
- Limited Edition hood pins
- Limited Edition chrome trim front and rear
- Saleen/Parnelli Jones Limited Edition injection molded TPO side skirts
- Limited Edition injection molded TPO rear fascia
- Limited Edition injection molded TPO quarter window panels
- Limited Edition "1970" replica wing
- Limited Edition rear window sports slats
- Racing inspired billet aluminum fuel door
- Limited Edition reusable static cling race and name decals
- Limited Edition badging
- Limited Edition "1970" championship wreath
- Saleen design aluminum shaker hood
- Saleen integrated front turn signals
- Saleen design center rear body panel
- Saleen Racecraft suspension system
- Saleen specific-rate front and rear springs
- Macpherson strut with lower control arm
- Saleen front struts with Saleen linear-rate coil over springs
- Front 1.38 inch tubular stabilizer (anti-roll bar) with urethane pivot bushings
- Rear .945 inch stabilizer (anti-roll) bar
- Specifically calibrated suspension settings
- Three link live rear axle plus Saleen Competition Watt's Link
- Direct-acting linear rate coil springs and N2 shocks
- Saleen 14 inch slotted and vented front disc brake system with Saleen 4 piston calipers
- 19 inch Saleen Mini-lite inspired aluminum wheels with Limited Edition center caps
- Pirelli extreme performance tires
- Saleen tire pressure monitoring system
- Saleen valve stem caps
- Limited Edition orange and black leather sports seats with badging
- Limited Edition instrument cluster with 180 MPH black faced gauges
- Limited Edition gauge pod with oil pressure and temp gauge
- Limited Edition floor mats, shift knob, steering wheel emblem and sill plates
- Limited Edition performance driving pedals
- Limited Edition graphics, badging and serialized number
- Limited Edition console plaque and serialized engine bay plaque
- Saleen/Parnelli Jones key fob and Saleen Eagle One detail kit
- Original signatures on center dash panel
According to Steve Saleen, the Parnelli Jones 302 was designed to capture the raw, aggressive attitude with which Parnelli raced; therefore, you could order any color car you wanted so long as it was Grabber Orange. Naturally, since this is an essentially new car, the paint looks simply amazing and has barely even seen sunlight, much less rain or inclement weather. Get up close to the panels and you'll find a sea of pristine, wet looking orange paint that doesn't display any of the buff marks, blemishes and haze that are typical of even expertly detailed show cars. Fit and finish is exceptional, thanks to the largely hand-built nature of the custom Saleen add-ons. And despite performing everyday tasks as flawlessly as a stock Mustang, the car has been completely re-envisioned to incorporate many subtle tweaks which recall the glory days of Trans Am racing.
To create that road ready, Trans Am racer appearance, Saleen equipped the Parnelli Jones 302 with every cosmetic trick in their book. At the front of the car, a re-designed front bumper cover hangs a chrome trimmed grille and injection molded headlight dividers above a black serial number and racing style air dam. Behind that bumper, a black striped and fully functional shaker hood holds race derived hood pins, which still carry their factory plastic covers, in front of excellent looking satin finished "S302" emblems. At the sides of the car, ornamentation is kept to a minimum with black 302 side stripes, a Saleen branded billet racing style gas cap and static cling door roundels, which feature Parnellis legendary number 15, providing the only breaks in the cars paint. And Fords classic Mustang profile is augmented by aggressive Saleen side skirts and throwback C-pillar vents which recall classic Shelbys of the 1960s. At the back of the car, a louvered, satin black rear window visor sits above a traditional Saleen championship decal, and a satin black trunk deck props a clean '70 Boss replica wing. Below that wing, a custom chrome trimmed rear valence displays both a custom Saleen Parnelli Jones emblem and a traditional Ford emblem, and a custom rear bumper weaves a black splitter around pristine stainless exhaust tips.
Lift Parnelli Jones #87s custom shaker hood and you'll find a crisp new 302 cubic inch Saleen built SOHC three valve V8 which produces an SAE certified 400 horsepower and 390 lb./ft. of torque. Equipped with a high compression, high revving valve train, this blue printed small block V8 utilizes a lightweight aluminum flywheel, a Saleen spec forged and internally balanced American crank, forged 4340 H-beam American rods, forged pistons, hand ported heads, Saleen spec Comp Cams with matching valve springs, Saleen spec variable cam timing and a Saleen PowerFlash tune to provide thrilling acceleration all the way up to its 7000 RPM redline. The hand assembled block sees a bump in displacement thanks to an increased stroke and little details like bore honing, a billet harmonic balancer, Saleen pulleys, new cylinder head bolts and Fel-Pro gaskets ensure the OEM reliability that goes hand in hand with a new car. What that means for you is a rocket-like sprint to triple digit speeds from an engine that never seems to feel like it's out of breath. And, like the legendary Trans Am Fords it honors, this car doesn't carry the imbalanced weight and mechanical stigma of having a big engine shoehorned into a tight engine bay. The pristine small block fits naturally between the cars glossy Grabber Orange fenders and presents a factory fresh appearance with no grease or renegade fluids anywhere to be found. It's exceptionally clean, nothing is out of place and there is absolutely no dirt or other signs of wear and tear.
In keeping with both Steve Saleen and Parnelli Jones race ancestry, this limited edition Mustang was designed utilizing Saleens own precision suspension. The all new, yet classic Watts-Link suspension is derived from racing and performance applications, and offers the purest race handling found in any OEM street car. Behind small block engine, a rugged Tremec 5-speed manual transmission drives a tall 3.73 rear end, which makes for some spectacular wheel spin in first and second gear, and astounding acceleration when you get the launch just right. Years ago, Saleens were criticized for their harsh ride, but those days are long gone. Taking advantage of the new Mustang's more rigid Macpherson front and 3 link rear chassis, Saleen engineers carefully chose springs, shocks, and sway bars that improve responsiveness without sacrificing ride quality. In fact, this may be the greatest improvement granted by the new Mustang platform: the ability to corner and handle like a thoroughbred without the hammering of previous performance suspensions. Exhaust is expelled through a traditional Saleen stainless steel system that provides their legacy low resonating sound. And braking is handled by "Saleen" branded four piston front calipers which clamp large slotted rotors and OEM Ford rear calipers which squeeze original factory rotors. At the corners, 19 inch Mini-lite style racing wheels feature cool Saleen/Parnelli Jones center caps and wear red labeled 275/35 front and 275/40 rear Pirelli P-Zero performance radials.
Inside, Saleen makes the Ford interior its own with leather upholstery and plenty of signage. The brand new leather seats have been fitted with bright Grabber Orange inserts, orange stitching and centered Parnelli Jones emblems, and the ornate Mustang dash houses a Saleen vintage instrumentation panel which displays "Saleen Parnelli Jones Edition" scripts among white letters on black backgrounds. At the center of the dash, an integrated twin gauge pod which displays oil pressure and temperature sits above both Steve Saleen and Parnelli Jones autographs. In front of the driver, a traditional Mustang steering wheel has been fitted with a "Saleen Parnelli Jones Edition" emblem, and in front of the passenger, a Bud Moore autograph sits above the cars serialized Limited Edition dash plaque. Between the seats, a traditional Ford console holds a Saleen Quick Shifter that's complete with a custom satin finished Parnelli Jones shift knob. And above the seats, a tight headliner is stretched above visors which are still sealed in their factory plastic. Of course all the usual power windows, locks, and other Mustang GT items are on hand, and a slick set of clean Saleen sill plates welcome passengers to the new smelling interior.
Included with this sale is the cars original, pristine window sticker, all of its original books and manuals, its original floor mats which are still in plastic, its original air compressor that is still in plastic and an original, unopened Eagle One detailing kit.
With Saleen now relegated to memory, many feel that their 2007 cars will be highly sought after by collectors now, and in the future. This Parnelli Jones 302 is the ultimate Saleen when it comes to total driving experience, and with only 40 miles of drive time, it's an essentially brand new piece of Mustang and Saleen history. Don't miss this opportunity to acquire what may very well be the coolest Mustang ever built!
- Year
- 2007
- Make
- Ford
- Secondary Make
- Saleen
- Model Name
- Mustang
- Secondary Model
- Parnelli Jones 302
- Vehicle Type
- Passenger Car
- Hobby Segment
- Muscle Car
- Mileage
- 39
Engine / Transmission
- Engine Type
- Gasoline
- Engine Size
- Engine Number
- n/a
- Heads
- Stock
- Fuel Specification
- n/a
- Fuel Delivery System Type
- Electronic Fuel Injection
- Transmission Type
- 5 Speed Manual
- Transmission Spec
- n/a
- Transmission Number
- n/a
- Entertainment System Type
- AM/FM CD Changer
- Battery Location
- LH Engine Compartment
- Battery Shut Off
- no
- Battery Charger
- no
- Power Steering
- Yes
- Air Conditioning
- Yes
- Interior Color
- Black
- Seating Type
- Bucket
- Seat Material
- Leather
- Shifter Type
- Floor
- Center Console
- Yes
- Body Style
- Coupe
- Doors
- 2
- Safe Body Color
- Grabber Orange
- Paint Type
- n/a
- Stripes
- Yes
- Front Suspension Type
- Coil Spring
- Rear Suspension Type
- 3-Link
- Axle Specification
- 3.73 Posi
- Front Wheel Specification
- 19x9"
- Rear Wheel Specification
- 19x10"
- Front Tire Specification
- 275/35/19
- Rear Tire Specification
- Front Brakes Specification
- Power Disc
- Rear Brakes Specification
- Power Disc
- Spare
- n/a
- Exhaust Type
- Dual Exhaust
- Muffler Type
- Original Equipment
- Restoration Status
- n/a
- Mileage Since Restoration
- n/a
- Awards Summary
- n/a
- Historical Documents Summary
- #87. All original books, manuals & window sticker.
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